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{\"start\": 140.723, \"end\": 161.282, \"text\": \"那發現說這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到這個陽性的反應表示說那個傾銷不落實所以這個部分我們也積極的跟不管是所有的疫調人員或相關的單位還有人員有可能進出了傳播因為接觸了傳播所以這個東西都還在疫調過程中的釐清的一個階段\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 140.723, \"end\": 141.804, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 141.804, \"end\": 142.144, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 142.144, \"end\": 142.425, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 142.425, \"end\": 143.506, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 143.506, \"end\": 143.786, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 143.786, \"end\": 144.286, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 144.286, \"end\": 145.027, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"陽\", \"start\": 145.027, \"end\": 145.267, 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\"程\", \"start\": 160.161, \"end\": 160.281, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 160.281, \"end\": 160.442, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 160.442, \"end\": 160.942, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"釐\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 160.942, \"end\": 161.102, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 161.102, \"end\": 161.202, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 161.202, \"end\": 161.262, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 161.262, \"end\": 161.282, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 161.983, \"end\": 174.475, \"text\": \"所以現在也沒有辦法說對什麼樣的人對暗場面的人跟車輛疫調過程中還沒辦法做隔離其實他們可能也已經趴趴照了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 161.983, \"end\": 162.163, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 162.163, \"end\": 162.303, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 162.303, \"end\": 162.964, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 162.964, \"end\": 163.244, \"score\": 1.0}, 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{\"word\": \"疫\", \"start\": 169.69, \"end\": 169.83, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 169.83, \"end\": 170.251, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 170.251, \"end\": 170.471, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 170.471, \"end\": 170.771, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 170.771, \"end\": 171.612, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 171.612, \"end\": 171.892, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"隔\", \"start\": 171.892, \"end\": 172.513, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 172.513, \"end\": 172.713, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 172.713, \"end\": 173.093, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 173.093, \"end\": 173.194, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 173.194, \"end\": 173.334, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 173.334, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 659.023, \"end\": 659.203, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 659.203, \"end\": 659.463, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 659.463, \"end\": 659.643, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 659.643, \"end\": 659.783, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 659.783, \"end\": 659.904, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"珍\", \"start\": 659.904, \"end\": 659.924, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"珠\", \"start\": 659.924, \"end\": 659.944, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 661.765, \"end\": 690.858, \"text\": \"並且要受到這個政府的這個督導監管所以我不知道提這個意見部長認不認同委員認同那我們會來研究因為農業部他們規定是200頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘珍珠至於說低於這個的話那目前不行但是未來或許有一些集中珍珠場這跟國內使用這個豬的習慣跟養殖的習慣還是有關係所以我想這個就不要不要特別再去做這樣的區分了好 委員我們會來研究一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 661.765, \"end\": 661.985, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 773.017, \"end\": 773.137, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 773.137, \"end\": 773.397, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"趕\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 773.397, \"end\": 773.818, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"蓋\"}, {\"word\": \"章\", \"start\": 773.818, \"end\": 774.238, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 774.238, \"end\": 774.358, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 774.358, \"end\": 774.378, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,673 --> 00:00:19,188\n謝謝主席麻煩請農業部陳部長跟房間署主祕請陳部長還有房間署主祕謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:21,252 --> 00:00:45,280\n部長好歡迎來到胃環委員會最近台中無期區發生了非洲豬瘟的案件兩位非常辛苦部里同仁也都很辛苦謝謝你們的辛勞不過我們還是要回到今天的主題就是如何防止病毒的擴散先請教一下部長這次感染的原因跟途徑是不是已經確定了\n\n3\n00:00:46,580 --> 00:01:01,790\n我跟委員說明我們現在的感染原因現在還沒辦法確定但是因為整個疫調還在調查但是因為過去台灣都沒有非洲豬瘟所以這個首例一定是從境外進來的\n\n4\n00:01:02,811 --> 00:01:20,821\n但是境外進來的時候在我們整個防疫系統的設計就是有不同的層次境外我們盡可能去攔那一定有百密一疏的地方那第二攔的就是在廚藝的部分一定要加強的這些監管就是徵阻然後再來就是\n\n5\n00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:39,391\n這些豬場本身的自主所以不同的防線才能夠有效的去防止這些豬瘟那這個非洲豬瘟的這個感染途徑基本上大概有六個來源那分別是這個食用的廚餘然後人車移動野豬\n\n6\n00:01:41,272 --> 00:01:59,648\n還有污染飼料還有接觸者的污染的衣服跟國際旅客我想請教兩位就是你們在進行疫情調查的時候能不能排除這家養豬場有確實隔離人跟車輛的接觸嗎\n\n7\n00:02:01,451 --> 00:02:19,863\n在現在的疫調就是台東市的疫調我們也經過專家會議給予一些建議跟協助包括這疫調的把表那相對的這些人員的部分特別是在案場的部分當初有些傾銷但是後來我們做我們第二輪會啟動所謂的環境的檢測嘛\n\n8\n00:02:20,723 --> 00:02:41,282\n那發現說這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到這個陽性的反應表示說那個傾銷不落實所以這個部分我們也積極的跟不管是所有的疫調人員或相關的單位還有人員有可能進出了傳播因為接觸了傳播所以這個東西都還在疫調過程中的釐清的一個階段\n\n9\n00:02:41,983 --> 00:02:54,475\n所以現在也沒有辦法說對什麼樣的人對暗場面的人跟車輛疫調過程中還沒辦法做隔離其實他們可能也已經趴趴照了\n\n10\n00:02:56,831 --> 00:03:21,537\n應該沒有因為這次的案例他的養豬場的投訴相對的比較少然後人員相對的也比較單純一點但是不管他少或單純他的足跡的追蹤跟他的這些關聯場我們都一一排查在第一輪裡面看起來沒有我舉個例子就是說那邊有沒有剛回國的家人或者外籍勞工可能接觸到的豬隻\n\n11\n00:03:22,836 --> 00:03:46,774\n初步的疫調是沒有啦但是我覺得這個東西都要做一些確認對我想再確認再確認是很重要的因為根據媒體的報導即使經過消毒那還是在養殖場內剛剛部長也講找到這個DNA的病毒跟核酸那病毒的這個頑抗是令人很吃驚的我們看一下那個簡報\n\n12\n00:03:48,715 --> 00:04:06,833\n光看這個冷凍豬肉這病毒竟然還可以存活到一千天將近三年之久那如果是這樣的話可能廚餘或飼料還有病毒那你們有沒有採檢就是說飼料或廚餘然後發現到病毒呢\n\n13\n00:04:07,273 --> 00:04:31,060\n我們現在所有可能的就是跟這個案場有關的關聯場或者是他的移動的車輛那包括他的一些豬送到批發市場的所有的環境採檢都是陰性的並沒有發現只有在案例場做第二輪的檢測的時候還是發現特別是在殺豬的這個屠宰的地方\n\n14\n00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:52,664\n跟他的不是就是鋪砂的地方有發現到這些病毒的陽性那表示他的清消不確實我們已經要求了我來請教一個就是提一個假設性的問題那因為國際旅客也是也可能是一個感染的途徑如果\n\n15\n00:04:53,260 --> 00:05:10,157\n如果一個人就是說在別的國家吃了感染的食物然後下午來到台灣然後接觸到豬隻有沒有可能引起這一次的事件特別是在3到19天潛伏期內因為你們的疫調有沒有可能說漏掉這樣的疑慮\n\n16\n00:05:11,345 --> 00:05:23,732\n第一個那個非洲之瘟不是人序公共傳染病人不會接受不會感染變成潛伏的症狀這個是非常重要的是但但有沒有可能就是帶著這個\n\n17\n00:05:25,307 --> 00:05:46,735\n带着这个病毒他如果他的衣服就是有进到这种他们的畜牧场那就有非常高的机会进来了以后又到我们我们自己的畜牧场所以在这个机制上面其实我们过去的防疫就一直告诉我们的事主就是禁止就是到别的国家的畜牧场\n\n18\n00:05:47,956 --> 00:05:56,857\n這個是一直去那國內的豬農大概有這樣子一個觀念那相對他們也會預防就是一些其他的同業進到他們的養豬場\n\n19\n00:05:58,431 --> 00:06:20,736\n我想因為請教這麼多問題主要是說我想大家都了解就是說確認了這個感染的途徑或者是污染源那就是擬定防治病毒擴散的這個最首要的一個工作那即使沒有辦法確認我們起碼可以用排除的方式排除掉幾個可能性那就可以限縮這個防疫的範圍來專注其他的這個因素\n\n20\n00:06:26,437 --> 00:06:48,855\n那我想這個部分如果有需要的話本席也是建議就是說或許可以再多調查因為剛剛部長特別提到的那個接觸的那個風險那我想人力的部分大家可以再做一下調度那可以期許也可以順利找到這次感染的途徑跟原因\n\n21\n00:06:49,655 --> 00:07:06,044\n謝謝委員提醒我在工作會議的時候我也只是我們部裡面因為我們部裡面有相當多的單位有獸醫師也會協助這次的調查比較重要的是我們希望我們在跟時間賽跑所以這個疫調如果還有很多釐清的時候釐清的速度太慢的話\n\n22\n00:07:07,318 --> 00:07:25,380\n我們就怕萬一有一些盲點我們沒有去查到而這些盲點可能就是已經移到外面去我們不知道所以我們在跟時間賽跑所以我們會更積極的去針對台中暗場的這些疫調如果還有疑義的話進出去釐清好謝謝部長要請回座那麻煩請彭部長\n\n23\n00:07:32,030 --> 00:07:54,247\n部長好我想今天的題目看起來好像比較偏重就是說我們他在討論廚餘也會擔心在沒有辦法排除這個原因之下有幾個問題想要請教這家養殖場的廚餘是不是來自於你們清潔隊廚餘回收所提供\n\n24\n00:07:55,171 --> 00:08:07,524\n目前來看是那也報告委員我們會配合農業部我們今天應該會有一些配合去做疫調的工作為什麼就是如果養殖場有加熱的話人會有存活的病毒\n\n25\n00:08:08,596 --> 00:08:26,496\n應該是有按照這個規定是90度以上一個小時就沒有這個病毒的存在但是我們可能按照他的申報的紀錄很有可能是這個真主不確實也有可能這樣的原因造成所以你們平常就是說在提供廚藝的同時有就是加強宣導如何有效的加熱檢測嗎\n\n26\n00:08:27,957 --> 00:08:55,226\n就是說我們有一個申報系統那當然它那個是一個輔助工具它如果沒有按時申報因為申報都要有溫度計在旁邊然後我們也知道它的日期在什麼時候那如果它沒有申報不確實有蠟的話那下個月我們就會發文給環保局要去集合因為看起來就是說目前台灣狀況是比較緊張一點那這樣子比較消極的一種處理方式我覺得可能在短期內我們可以稍微\n\n27\n00:08:55,686 --> 00:09:18,271\n更积极的对有效积极的来来宣导那我们还有就是是不是还有其他的这个养猪场来使用你们提供的厨余有总共400多家他是你说无期的养猪场就国内国内其他的养猪场\n\n28\n00:09:19,251 --> 00:09:47,991\n435家所以这个部分我想也应该要一并加强宣导这个住址的安全使用处理的资讯是因为我们现在还有5000多家养殖场没有感染就是说建议你们真的也是跟时间赛跑赶快去宣导甚至说要补贴这个低利贷款加热设备的购置有些小型的养殖户因为你们如果有些这个以200头做一个标准其实\n\n29\n00:09:48,812 --> 00:10:04,560\n其实我们台东很多都没有到200头自己收集厨余来养猪如果可以的话也请你们提供必要的协助特别是南部东部的地区的养殖个体户\n\n30\n00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:23,686\n雖然有時候地方政府可能禁止廚餘養豬但是有很多的個體戶或小型他們還是會有這樣的情形所以這個部分我想在台灣廚餘的利用它是流動而且它是跨縣式的所以不分使用\n\n31\n00:10:24,346 --> 00:10:38,864\n那政府收集的或者是自己去收集的這個廚餘那也沒有分這個大型專業養豬場或小型的個體戶只要有使用廚餘透過這個人車的移動都有可能造成這個防疫的破口\n\n32\n00:10:39,284 --> 00:10:59,944\n所以環境部應該透過你們比較就是更有效的這個政策工具來協助業者讓廚餘更安全的被使用所以特別是這個養豬的這個養豬場的珍珠廚餘用在這個飼料上都需要經過地方環保這個環保主管機關來核可的這個使用特定的這個設備珍珠\n\n33\n00:11:01,765 --> 00:11:30,858\n並且要受到這個政府的這個督導監管所以我不知道提這個意見部長認不認同委員認同那我們會來研究因為農業部他們規定是200頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘珍珠至於說低於這個的話那目前不行但是未來或許有一些集中珍珠場這跟國內使用這個豬的習慣跟養殖的習慣還是有關係所以我想這個就不要不要特別再去做這樣的區分了好委員我們會來研究一下\n\n34\n00:11:31,318 --> 00:11:48,348\n對那我想最後利用一點點時間因為8月7號我們跟本席跟莊瑞雄委員王振旭委員還有林月琴委員我們到蘭嶼考察那關心了這個垃圾倉儲儲存場還有這個資源回收物清運的問題\n\n35\n00:11:49,329 --> 00:12:04,745\n那这个储存场因为要等这个县府台东县政府处理用地的问题所以我想我就先关心一下那个资源回收的部分哦清运的部分因为兰宇他是他是里岛所以他的这个垃圾哦\n\n36\n00:12:05,586 --> 00:12:30,582\n都特別需要船隻運到這個台灣來那成本相當高我想這不是鄉公所或縣政府可以負擔得起所以非常需要中央的協助那今年經費也剩下21萬元但是還有成山成堆的垃圾所以這個部分不曉得環境部這邊能夠提供什麼樣的協助因為上次講到目前為止進度如何\n\n37\n00:12:30,882 --> 00:12:54,378\n好報告委員這個這個案子我有特別關注喔那目前的程序是我們志願學院署已經審核那還沒有簽到我這邊但是應該會有很好的消息也謝謝委員提出這樣的一個想法我們會照委員的建議來實施所以他目前經費的規模900900多萬對是對沒有問題好那也拜託部長可以趕快蓋章好謝謝謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9673\t19188\t謝謝主席麻煩請農業部陳部長跟房間署主祕請陳部長還有房間署主祕謝謝\n21252\t45280\t部長好 歡迎來到胃環委員會最近台中無期區發生了非洲豬瘟的案件兩位非常辛苦 部里同仁也都很辛苦謝謝你們的辛勞不過我們還是要回到今天的主題就是如何防止病毒的擴散先請教一下部長這次感染的原因跟途徑是不是已經確定了\n46580\t61790\t我跟委員說明我們現在的感染原因現在還沒辦法確定但是因為整個疫調還在調查但是因為過去台灣都沒有非洲豬瘟所以這個首例一定是從境外進來的\n62811\t80821\t但是境外進來的時候在我們整個防疫系統的設計就是有不同的層次境外我們盡可能去攔那一定有百密一疏的地方那第二攔的就是在廚藝的部分一定要加強的這些監管就是徵阻然後再來就是\n82080\t99391\t這些豬場本身的自主所以不同的防線才能夠有效的去防止這些豬瘟那這個非洲豬瘟的這個感染途徑基本上大概有六個來源那分別是這個食用的廚餘然後人車移動野豬\n101272\t119648\t還有污染飼料還有接觸者的污染的衣服跟國際旅客我想請教兩位就是你們在進行疫情調查的時候能不能排除這家養豬場有確實隔離人跟車輛的接觸嗎\n121451\t139863\t在現在的疫調就是台東市的疫調我們也經過專家會議給予一些建議跟協助包括這疫調的把表那相對的這些人員的部分特別是在案場的部分當初有些傾銷但是後來我們做我們第二輪會啟動所謂的環境的檢測嘛\n140723\t161282\t那發現說這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到這個陽性的反應表示說那個傾銷不落實所以這個部分我們也積極的跟不管是所有的疫調人員或相關的單位還有人員有可能進出了傳播因為接觸了傳播所以這個東西都還在疫調過程中的釐清的一個階段\n161983\t174475\t所以現在也沒有辦法說對什麼樣的人對暗場面的人跟車輛疫調過程中還沒辦法做隔離其實他們可能也已經趴趴照了\n176831\t201537\t應該沒有因為這次的案例他的養豬場的投訴相對的比較少然後人員相對的也比較單純一點但是不管他少或單純他的足跡的追蹤跟他的這些關聯場我們都一一排查在第一輪裡面看起來沒有我舉個例子就是說那邊有沒有剛回國的家人或者外籍勞工可能接觸到的豬隻\n202836\t226774\t初步的疫調是沒有啦但是我覺得這個東西都要做一些確認對 我想再確認再確認是很重要的因為根據媒體的報導即使經過消毒那還是在養殖場內剛剛部長也講找到這個DNA的病毒跟核酸那病毒的這個頑抗是令人很吃驚的我們看一下那個簡報\n228715\t246833\t光看這個冷凍豬肉這病毒竟然還可以存活到一千天將近三年之久那如果是這樣的話可能廚餘或飼料還有病毒那你們有沒有採檢就是說飼料或廚餘然後發現到病毒呢\n247273\t271060\t我們現在所有可能的就是跟這個案場有關的關聯場或者是他的移動的車輛那包括他的一些豬送到批發市場的所有的環境採檢都是陰性的並沒有發現只有在案例場做第二輪的檢測的時候還是發現特別是在殺豬的這個屠宰的地方\n271920\t292664\t跟他的不是就是鋪砂的地方有發現到這些病毒的陽性那表示他的清消不確實我們已經要求了我來請教一個就是提一個假設性的問題那因為國際旅客也是也可能是一個感染的途徑如果\n293260\t310157\t如果一個人就是說在別的國家吃了感染的食物然後下午來到台灣然後接觸到豬隻有沒有可能引起這一次的事件特別是在3到19天潛伏期內因為你們的疫調有沒有可能說漏掉這樣的疑慮\n311345\t323732\t第一個那個非洲之瘟不是人序公共傳染病人不會接受不會感染變成潛伏的症狀這個是非常重要的是但但有沒有可能就是帶著這個\n325307\t346735\t带着这个病毒他如果他的衣服就是有进到这种他们的畜牧场那就有非常高的机会进来了以后又到我们我们自己的畜牧场所以在这个机制上面其实我们过去的防疫就一直告诉我们的事主就是禁止就是到别的国家的畜牧场\n347956\t356857\t這個是一直去那國內的豬農大概有這樣子一個觀念那相對他們也會預防就是一些其他的同業進到他們的養豬場\n358431\t380736\t我想因為請教這麼多問題主要是說我想大家都了解就是說確認了這個感染的途徑或者是污染源那就是擬定防治病毒擴散的這個最首要的一個工作那即使沒有辦法確認我們起碼可以用排除的方式排除掉幾個可能性那就可以限縮這個防疫的範圍來專注其他的這個因素\n386437\t408855\t那我想這個部分如果有需要的話本席也是建議就是說或許可以再多調查因為剛剛部長特別提到的那個接觸的那個風險那我想人力的部分大家可以再做一下調度那可以期許也可以順利找到這次感染的途徑跟原因\n409655\t426044\t謝謝委員提醒我在工作會議的時候我也只是我們部裡面因為我們部裡面有相當多的單位有獸醫師也會協助這次的調查比較重要的是我們希望我們在跟時間賽跑所以這個疫調如果還有很多釐清的時候釐清的速度太慢的話\n427318\t445380\t我們就怕萬一有一些盲點我們沒有去查到而這些盲點可能就是已經移到外面去我們不知道所以我們在跟時間賽跑所以我們會更積極的去針對台中暗場的這些疫調如果還有疑義的話進出去釐清好 謝謝部長要請回座那麻煩請彭部長\n452030\t474247\t部長好我想今天的題目看起來好像比較偏重就是說我們他在討論廚餘也會擔心在沒有辦法排除這個原因之下有幾個問題想要請教這家養殖場的廚餘是不是來自於你們清潔隊廚餘回收所提供\n475171\t487524\t目前來看是那也報告委員我們會配合農業部我們今天應該會有一些配合去做疫調的工作為什麼就是如果養殖場有加熱的話人會有存活的病毒\n488596\t506496\t應該是有按照這個規定是90度以上一個小時就沒有這個病毒的存在但是我們可能按照他的申報的紀錄很有可能是這個真主不確實也有可能這樣的原因造成所以你們平常就是說在提供廚藝的同時有就是加強宣導如何有效的加熱檢測嗎\n507957\t535226\t就是說我們有一個申報系統那當然它那個是一個輔助工具它如果沒有按時申報因為申報都要有溫度計在旁邊然後我們也知道它的日期在什麼時候那如果它沒有申報不確實有蠟的話那下個月我們就會發文給環保局要去集合因為看起來就是說目前台灣狀況是比較緊張一點那這樣子比較消極的一種處理方式我覺得可能在短期內我們可以稍微\n535686\t558271\t更积极的对有效积极的来来宣导那我们还有就是是不是还有其他的这个养猪场来使用你们提供的厨余有总共400多家他是你说无期的养猪场就国内国内其他的养猪场\n559251\t587991\t435家所以这个部分我想也应该要一并加强宣导这个住址的安全使用处理的资讯是因为我们现在还有5000多家养殖场没有感染就是说建议你们真的也是跟时间赛跑赶快去宣导甚至说要补贴这个低利贷款加热设备的购置有些小型的养殖户因为你们如果有些这个以200头做一个标准其实\n588812\t604560\t其实我们台东很多都没有到200头自己收集厨余来养猪如果可以的话也请你们提供必要的协助特别是南部东部的地区的养殖个体户\n605340\t623686\t雖然有時候地方政府可能禁止廚餘養豬但是有很多的個體戶或小型他們還是會有這樣的情形所以這個部分我想在台灣廚餘的利用它是流動而且它是跨縣式的所以不分使用\n624346\t638864\t那政府收集的或者是自己去收集的這個廚餘那也沒有分這個大型專業養豬場或小型的個體戶只要有使用廚餘透過這個人車的移動都有可能造成這個防疫的破口\n639284\t659944\t所以環境部應該透過你們比較就是更有效的這個政策工具來協助業者讓廚餘更安全的被使用所以特別是這個養豬的這個養豬場的珍珠廚餘用在這個飼料上都需要經過地方環保這個環保主管機關來核可的這個使用特定的這個設備珍珠\n661765\t690858\t並且要受到這個政府的這個督導監管所以我不知道提這個意見部長認不認同委員認同那我們會來研究因為農業部他們規定是200頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘珍珠至於說低於這個的話那目前不行但是未來或許有一些集中珍珠場這跟國內使用這個豬的習慣跟養殖的習慣還是有關係所以我想這個就不要不要特別再去做這樣的區分了好 委員我們會來研究一下\n691318\t708348\t對那我想最後利用一點點時間因為8月7號我們跟本席跟莊瑞雄委員王振旭委員還有林月琴委員我們到蘭嶼考察那關心了這個垃圾倉儲儲存場還有這個資源回收物清運的問題\n709329\t724745\t那这个储存场因为要等这个县府台东县政府处理用地的问题所以我想我就先关心一下那个资源回收的部分哦清运的部分因为兰宇他是他是里岛所以他的这个垃圾哦\n725586\t750582\t都特別需要船隻運到這個台灣來那成本相當高我想這不是鄉公所或縣政府可以負擔得起所以非常需要中央的協助那今年經費也剩下21萬元但是還有成山成堆的垃圾所以這個部分不曉得環境部這邊能夠提供什麼樣的協助因為上次講到目前為止進度如何\n750882\t774378\t好報告委員這個這個案子我有特別關注喔那目前的程序是我們志願學院署已經審核那還沒有簽到我這邊但是應該會有很好的消息也謝謝委員提出這樣的一個想法我們會照委員的建議來實施所以他目前經費的規模900900多萬對是對沒有問題好那也拜託部長可以趕快蓋章好謝謝謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩請農業部陳部長跟房間署主祕請陳部長還有房間署主祕謝謝\n部長好 歡迎來到胃環委員會最近台中無期區發生了非洲豬瘟的案件兩位非常辛苦 部里同仁也都很辛苦謝謝你們的辛勞不過我們還是要回到今天的主題就是如何防止病毒的擴散先請教一下部長這次感染的原因跟途徑是不是已經確定了\n我跟委員說明我們現在的感染原因現在還沒辦法確定但是因為整個疫調還在調查但是因為過去台灣都沒有非洲豬瘟所以這個首例一定是從境外進來的\n但是境外進來的時候在我們整個防疫系統的設計就是有不同的層次境外我們盡可能去攔那一定有百密一疏的地方那第二攔的就是在廚藝的部分一定要加強的這些監管就是徵阻然後再來就是\n這些豬場本身的自主所以不同的防線才能夠有效的去防止這些豬瘟那這個非洲豬瘟的這個感染途徑基本上大概有六個來源那分別是這個食用的廚餘然後人車移動野豬\n還有污染飼料還有接觸者的污染的衣服跟國際旅客我想請教兩位就是你們在進行疫情調查的時候能不能排除這家養豬場有確實隔離人跟車輛的接觸嗎\n在現在的疫調就是台東市的疫調我們也經過專家會議給予一些建議跟協助包括這疫調的把表那相對的這些人員的部分特別是在案場的部分當初有些傾銷但是後來我們做我們第二輪會啟動所謂的環境的檢測嘛\n那發現說這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到這個陽性的反應表示說那個傾銷不落實所以這個部分我們也積極的跟不管是所有的疫調人員或相關的單位還有人員有可能進出了傳播因為接觸了傳播所以這個東西都還在疫調過程中的釐清的一個階段\n所以現在也沒有辦法說對什麼樣的人對暗場面的人跟車輛疫調過程中還沒辦法做隔離其實他們可能也已經趴趴照了\n應該沒有因為這次的案例他的養豬場的投訴相對的比較少然後人員相對的也比較單純一點但是不管他少或單純他的足跡的追蹤跟他的這些關聯場我們都一一排查在第一輪裡面看起來沒有我舉個例子就是說那邊有沒有剛回國的家人或者外籍勞工可能接觸到的豬隻\n初步的疫調是沒有啦但是我覺得這個東西都要做一些確認對 我想再確認再確認是很重要的因為根據媒體的報導即使經過消毒那還是在養殖場內剛剛部長也講找到這個DNA的病毒跟核酸那病毒的這個頑抗是令人很吃驚的我們看一下那個簡報\n光看這個冷凍豬肉這病毒竟然還可以存活到一千天將近三年之久那如果是這樣的話可能廚餘或飼料還有病毒那你們有沒有採檢就是說飼料或廚餘然後發現到病毒呢\n我們現在所有可能的就是跟這個案場有關的關聯場或者是他的移動的車輛那包括他的一些豬送到批發市場的所有的環境採檢都是陰性的並沒有發現只有在案例場做第二輪的檢測的時候還是發現特別是在殺豬的這個屠宰的地方\n跟他的不是就是鋪砂的地方有發現到這些病毒的陽性那表示他的清消不確實我們已經要求了我來請教一個就是提一個假設性的問題那因為國際旅客也是也可能是一個感染的途徑如果\n如果一個人就是說在別的國家吃了感染的食物然後下午來到台灣然後接觸到豬隻有沒有可能引起這一次的事件特別是在3到19天潛伏期內因為你們的疫調有沒有可能說漏掉這樣的疑慮\n第一個那個非洲之瘟不是人序公共傳染病人不會接受不會感染變成潛伏的症狀這個是非常重要的是但但有沒有可能就是帶著這個\n带着这个病毒他如果他的衣服就是有进到这种他们的畜牧场那就有非常高的机会进来了以后又到我们我们自己的畜牧场所以在这个机制上面其实我们过去的防疫就一直告诉我们的事主就是禁止就是到别的国家的畜牧场\n這個是一直去那國內的豬農大概有這樣子一個觀念那相對他們也會預防就是一些其他的同業進到他們的養豬場\n我想因為請教這麼多問題主要是說我想大家都了解就是說確認了這個感染的途徑或者是污染源那就是擬定防治病毒擴散的這個最首要的一個工作那即使沒有辦法確認我們起碼可以用排除的方式排除掉幾個可能性那就可以限縮這個防疫的範圍來專注其他的這個因素\n那我想這個部分如果有需要的話本席也是建議就是說或許可以再多調查因為剛剛部長特別提到的那個接觸的那個風險那我想人力的部分大家可以再做一下調度那可以期許也可以順利找到這次感染的途徑跟原因\n謝謝委員提醒我在工作會議的時候我也只是我們部裡面因為我們部裡面有相當多的單位有獸醫師也會協助這次的調查比較重要的是我們希望我們在跟時間賽跑所以這個疫調如果還有很多釐清的時候釐清的速度太慢的話\n我們就怕萬一有一些盲點我們沒有去查到而這些盲點可能就是已經移到外面去我們不知道所以我們在跟時間賽跑所以我們會更積極的去針對台中暗場的這些疫調如果還有疑義的話進出去釐清好 謝謝部長要請回座那麻煩請彭部長\n部長好我想今天的題目看起來好像比較偏重就是說我們他在討論廚餘也會擔心在沒有辦法排除這個原因之下有幾個問題想要請教這家養殖場的廚餘是不是來自於你們清潔隊廚餘回收所提供\n目前來看是那也報告委員我們會配合農業部我們今天應該會有一些配合去做疫調的工作為什麼就是如果養殖場有加熱的話人會有存活的病毒\n應該是有按照這個規定是90度以上一個小時就沒有這個病毒的存在但是我們可能按照他的申報的紀錄很有可能是這個真主不確實也有可能這樣的原因造成所以你們平常就是說在提供廚藝的同時有就是加強宣導如何有效的加熱檢測嗎\n就是說我們有一個申報系統那當然它那個是一個輔助工具它如果沒有按時申報因為申報都要有溫度計在旁邊然後我們也知道它的日期在什麼時候那如果它沒有申報不確實有蠟的話那下個月我們就會發文給環保局要去集合因為看起來就是說目前台灣狀況是比較緊張一點那這樣子比較消極的一種處理方式我覺得可能在短期內我們可以稍微\n更积极的对有效积极的来来宣导那我们还有就是是不是还有其他的这个养猪场来使用你们提供的厨余有总共400多家他是你说无期的养猪场就国内国内其他的养猪场\n435家所以这个部分我想也应该要一并加强宣导这个住址的安全使用处理的资讯是因为我们现在还有5000多家养殖场没有感染就是说建议你们真的也是跟时间赛跑赶快去宣导甚至说要补贴这个低利贷款加热设备的购置有些小型的养殖户因为你们如果有些这个以200头做一个标准其实\n其实我们台东很多都没有到200头自己收集厨余来养猪如果可以的话也请你们提供必要的协助特别是南部东部的地区的养殖个体户\n雖然有時候地方政府可能禁止廚餘養豬但是有很多的個體戶或小型他們還是會有這樣的情形所以這個部分我想在台灣廚餘的利用它是流動而且它是跨縣式的所以不分使用\n那政府收集的或者是自己去收集的這個廚餘那也沒有分這個大型專業養豬場或小型的個體戶只要有使用廚餘透過這個人車的移動都有可能造成這個防疫的破口\n所以環境部應該透過你們比較就是更有效的這個政策工具來協助業者讓廚餘更安全的被使用所以特別是這個養豬的這個養豬場的珍珠廚餘用在這個飼料上都需要經過地方環保這個環保主管機關來核可的這個使用特定的這個設備珍珠\n並且要受到這個政府的這個督導監管所以我不知道提這個意見部長認不認同委員認同那我們會來研究因為農業部他們規定是200頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘珍珠至於說低於這個的話那目前不行但是未來或許有一些集中珍珠場這跟國內使用這個豬的習慣跟養殖的習慣還是有關係所以我想這個就不要不要特別再去做這樣的區分了好 委員我們會來研究一下\n對那我想最後利用一點點時間因為8月7號我們跟本席跟莊瑞雄委員王振旭委員還有林月琴委員我們到蘭嶼考察那關心了這個垃圾倉儲儲存場還有這個資源回收物清運的問題\n那这个储存场因为要等这个县府台东县政府处理用地的问题所以我想我就先关心一下那个资源回收的部分哦清运的部分因为兰宇他是他是里岛所以他的这个垃圾哦\n都特別需要船隻運到這個台灣來那成本相當高我想這不是鄉公所或縣政府可以負擔得起所以非常需要中央的協助那今年經費也剩下21萬元但是還有成山成堆的垃圾所以這個部分不曉得環境部這邊能夠提供什麼樣的協助因為上次講到目前為止進度如何\n好報告委員這個這個案子我有特別關注喔那目前的程序是我們志願學院署已經審核那還沒有簽到我這邊但是應該會有很好的消息也謝謝委員提出這樣的一個想法我們會照委員的建議來實施所以他目前經費的規模900900多萬對是對沒有問題好那也拜託部長可以趕快蓋章好謝謝謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.673 --> 00:19.188\n謝謝主席麻煩請農業部陳部長跟房間署主祕請陳部長還有房間署主祕謝謝\n\n00:21.252 --> 00:45.280\n部長好歡迎來到胃環委員會最近台中無期區發生了非洲豬瘟的案件兩位非常辛苦部里同仁也都很辛苦謝謝你們的辛勞不過我們還是要回到今天的主題就是如何防止病毒的擴散先請教一下部長這次感染的原因跟途徑是不是已經確定了\n\n00:46.580 --> 01:01.790\n我跟委員說明我們現在的感染原因現在還沒辦法確定但是因為整個疫調還在調查但是因為過去台灣都沒有非洲豬瘟所以這個首例一定是從境外進來的\n\n01:02.811 --> 01:20.821\n但是境外進來的時候在我們整個防疫系統的設計就是有不同的層次境外我們盡可能去攔那一定有百密一疏的地方那第二攔的就是在廚藝的部分一定要加強的這些監管就是徵阻然後再來就是\n\n01:22.080 --> 01:39.391\n這些豬場本身的自主所以不同的防線才能夠有效的去防止這些豬瘟那這個非洲豬瘟的這個感染途徑基本上大概有六個來源那分別是這個食用的廚餘然後人車移動野豬\n\n01:41.272 --> 01:59.648\n還有污染飼料還有接觸者的污染的衣服跟國際旅客我想請教兩位就是你們在進行疫情調查的時候能不能排除這家養豬場有確實隔離人跟車輛的接觸嗎\n\n02:01.451 --> 02:19.863\n在現在的疫調就是台東市的疫調我們也經過專家會議給予一些建議跟協助包括這疫調的把表那相對的這些人員的部分特別是在案場的部分當初有些傾銷但是後來我們做我們第二輪會啟動所謂的環境的檢測嘛\n\n02:20.723 --> 02:41.282\n那發現說這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到這個陽性的反應表示說那個傾銷不落實所以這個部分我們也積極的跟不管是所有的疫調人員或相關的單位還有人員有可能進出了傳播因為接觸了傳播所以這個東西都還在疫調過程中的釐清的一個階段\n\n02:41.983 --> 02:54.475\n所以現在也沒有辦法說對什麼樣的人對暗場面的人跟車輛疫調過程中還沒辦法做隔離其實他們可能也已經趴趴照了\n\n02:56.831 --> 03:21.537\n應該沒有因為這次的案例他的養豬場的投訴相對的比較少然後人員相對的也比較單純一點但是不管他少或單純他的足跡的追蹤跟他的這些關聯場我們都一一排查在第一輪裡面看起來沒有我舉個例子就是說那邊有沒有剛回國的家人或者外籍勞工可能接觸到的豬隻\n\n03:22.836 --> 03:46.774\n初步的疫調是沒有啦但是我覺得這個東西都要做一些確認對我想再確認再確認是很重要的因為根據媒體的報導即使經過消毒那還是在養殖場內剛剛部長也講找到這個DNA的病毒跟核酸那病毒的這個頑抗是令人很吃驚的我們看一下那個簡報\n\n03:48.715 --> 04:06.833\n光看這個冷凍豬肉這病毒竟然還可以存活到一千天將近三年之久那如果是這樣的話可能廚餘或飼料還有病毒那你們有沒有採檢就是說飼料或廚餘然後發現到病毒呢\n\n04:07.273 --> 04:31.060\n我們現在所有可能的就是跟這個案場有關的關聯場或者是他的移動的車輛那包括他的一些豬送到批發市場的所有的環境採檢都是陰性的並沒有發現只有在案例場做第二輪的檢測的時候還是發現特別是在殺豬的這個屠宰的地方\n\n04:31.920 --> 04:52.664\n跟他的不是就是鋪砂的地方有發現到這些病毒的陽性那表示他的清消不確實我們已經要求了我來請教一個就是提一個假設性的問題那因為國際旅客也是也可能是一個感染的途徑如果\n\n04:53.260 --> 05:10.157\n如果一個人就是說在別的國家吃了感染的食物然後下午來到台灣然後接觸到豬隻有沒有可能引起這一次的事件特別是在3到19天潛伏期內因為你們的疫調有沒有可能說漏掉這樣的疑慮\n\n05:11.345 --> 05:23.732\n第一個那個非洲之瘟不是人序公共傳染病人不會接受不會感染變成潛伏的症狀這個是非常重要的是但但有沒有可能就是帶著這個\n\n05:25.307 --> 05:46.735\n带着这个病毒他如果他的衣服就是有进到这种他们的畜牧场那就有非常高的机会进来了以后又到我们我们自己的畜牧场所以在这个机制上面其实我们过去的防疫就一直告诉我们的事主就是禁止就是到别的国家的畜牧场\n\n05:47.956 --> 05:56.857\n這個是一直去那國內的豬農大概有這樣子一個觀念那相對他們也會預防就是一些其他的同業進到他們的養豬場\n\n05:58.431 --> 06:20.736\n我想因為請教這麼多問題主要是說我想大家都了解就是說確認了這個感染的途徑或者是污染源那就是擬定防治病毒擴散的這個最首要的一個工作那即使沒有辦法確認我們起碼可以用排除的方式排除掉幾個可能性那就可以限縮這個防疫的範圍來專注其他的這個因素\n\n06:26.437 --> 06:48.855\n那我想這個部分如果有需要的話本席也是建議就是說或許可以再多調查因為剛剛部長特別提到的那個接觸的那個風險那我想人力的部分大家可以再做一下調度那可以期許也可以順利找到這次感染的途徑跟原因\n\n06:49.655 --> 07:06.044\n謝謝委員提醒我在工作會議的時候我也只是我們部裡面因為我們部裡面有相當多的單位有獸醫師也會協助這次的調查比較重要的是我們希望我們在跟時間賽跑所以這個疫調如果還有很多釐清的時候釐清的速度太慢的話\n\n07:07.318 --> 07:25.380\n我們就怕萬一有一些盲點我們沒有去查到而這些盲點可能就是已經移到外面去我們不知道所以我們在跟時間賽跑所以我們會更積極的去針對台中暗場的這些疫調如果還有疑義的話進出去釐清好謝謝部長要請回座那麻煩請彭部長\n\n07:32.030 --> 07:54.247\n部長好我想今天的題目看起來好像比較偏重就是說我們他在討論廚餘也會擔心在沒有辦法排除這個原因之下有幾個問題想要請教這家養殖場的廚餘是不是來自於你們清潔隊廚餘回收所提供\n\n07:55.171 --> 08:07.524\n目前來看是那也報告委員我們會配合農業部我們今天應該會有一些配合去做疫調的工作為什麼就是如果養殖場有加熱的話人會有存活的病毒\n\n08:08.596 --> 08:26.496\n應該是有按照這個規定是90度以上一個小時就沒有這個病毒的存在但是我們可能按照他的申報的紀錄很有可能是這個真主不確實也有可能這樣的原因造成所以你們平常就是說在提供廚藝的同時有就是加強宣導如何有效的加熱檢測嗎\n\n08:27.957 --> 08:55.226\n就是說我們有一個申報系統那當然它那個是一個輔助工具它如果沒有按時申報因為申報都要有溫度計在旁邊然後我們也知道它的日期在什麼時候那如果它沒有申報不確實有蠟的話那下個月我們就會發文給環保局要去集合因為看起來就是說目前台灣狀況是比較緊張一點那這樣子比較消極的一種處理方式我覺得可能在短期內我們可以稍微\n\n08:55.686 --> 09:18.271\n更积极的对有效积极的来来宣导那我们还有就是是不是还有其他的这个养猪场来使用你们提供的厨余有总共400多家他是你说无期的养猪场就国内国内其他的养猪场\n\n09:19.251 --> 09:47.991\n435家所以这个部分我想也应该要一并加强宣导这个住址的安全使用处理的资讯是因为我们现在还有5000多家养殖场没有感染就是说建议你们真的也是跟时间赛跑赶快去宣导甚至说要补贴这个低利贷款加热设备的购置有些小型的养殖户因为你们如果有些这个以200头做一个标准其实\n\n09:48.812 --> 10:04.560\n其实我们台东很多都没有到200头自己收集厨余来养猪如果可以的话也请你们提供必要的协助特别是南部东部的地区的养殖个体户\n\n10:05.340 --> 10:23.686\n雖然有時候地方政府可能禁止廚餘養豬但是有很多的個體戶或小型他們還是會有這樣的情形所以這個部分我想在台灣廚餘的利用它是流動而且它是跨縣式的所以不分使用\n\n10:24.346 --> 10:38.864\n那政府收集的或者是自己去收集的這個廚餘那也沒有分這個大型專業養豬場或小型的個體戶只要有使用廚餘透過這個人車的移動都有可能造成這個防疫的破口\n\n10:39.284 --> 10:59.944\n所以環境部應該透過你們比較就是更有效的這個政策工具來協助業者讓廚餘更安全的被使用所以特別是這個養豬的這個養豬場的珍珠廚餘用在這個飼料上都需要經過地方環保這個環保主管機關來核可的這個使用特定的這個設備珍珠\n\n11:01.765 --> 11:30.858\n並且要受到這個政府的這個督導監管所以我不知道提這個意見部長認不認同委員認同那我們會來研究因為農業部他們規定是200頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘珍珠至於說低於這個的話那目前不行但是未來或許有一些集中珍珠場這跟國內使用這個豬的習慣跟養殖的習慣還是有關係所以我想這個就不要不要特別再去做這樣的區分了好委員我們會來研究一下\n\n11:31.318 --> 11:48.348\n對那我想最後利用一點點時間因為8月7號我們跟本席跟莊瑞雄委員王振旭委員還有林月琴委員我們到蘭嶼考察那關心了這個垃圾倉儲儲存場還有這個資源回收物清運的問題\n\n11:49.329 --> 12:04.745\n那这个储存场因为要等这个县府台东县政府处理用地的问题所以我想我就先关心一下那个资源回收的部分哦清运的部分因为兰宇他是他是里岛所以他的这个垃圾哦\n\n12:05.586 --> 12:30.582\n都特別需要船隻運到這個台灣來那成本相當高我想這不是鄉公所或縣政府可以負擔得起所以非常需要中央的協助那今年經費也剩下21萬元但是還有成山成堆的垃圾所以這個部分不曉得環境部這邊能夠提供什麼樣的協助因為上次講到目前為止進度如何\n\n12:30.882 --> 12:54.378\n好報告委員這個這個案子我有特別關注喔那目前的程序是我們志願學院署已經審核那還沒有簽到我這邊但是應該會有很好的消息也謝謝委員提出這樣的一個想法我們會照委員的建議來實施所以他目前經費的規模900900多萬對是對沒有問題好那也拜託部長可以趕快蓋章好謝謝謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.673,"end":19.188,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請農業部陳部長跟房間署主祕請陳部長還有房間署主祕謝謝"},{"start":21.252,"end":45.28,"text":"部長好 歡迎來到胃環委員會最近台中無期區發生了非洲豬瘟的案件兩位非常辛苦 部里同仁也都很辛苦謝謝你們的辛勞不過我們還是要回到今天的主題就是如何防止病毒的擴散先請教一下部長這次感染的原因跟途徑是不是已經確定了"},{"start":46.58,"end":61.79,"text":"我跟委員說明我們現在的感染原因現在還沒辦法確定但是因為整個疫調還在調查但是因為過去台灣都沒有非洲豬瘟所以這個首例一定是從境外進來的"},{"start":62.811,"end":80.821,"text":"但是境外進來的時候在我們整個防疫系統的設計就是有不同的層次境外我們盡可能去攔那一定有百密一疏的地方那第二攔的就是在廚藝的部分一定要加強的這些監管就是徵阻然後再來就是"},{"start":82.08,"end":99.391,"text":"這些豬場本身的自主所以不同的防線才能夠有效的去防止這些豬瘟那這個非洲豬瘟的這個感染途徑基本上大概有六個來源那分別是這個食用的廚餘然後人車移動野豬"},{"start":101.272,"end":119.648,"text":"還有污染飼料還有接觸者的污染的衣服跟國際旅客我想請教兩位就是你們在進行疫情調查的時候能不能排除這家養豬場有確實隔離人跟車輛的接觸嗎"},{"start":121.451,"end":139.863,"text":"在現在的疫調就是台東市的疫調我們也經過專家會議給予一些建議跟協助包括這疫調的把表那相對的這些人員的部分特別是在案場的部分當初有些傾銷但是後來我們做我們第二輪會啟動所謂的環境的檢測嘛"},{"start":140.723,"end":161.282,"text":"那發現說這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到這個陽性的反應表示說那個傾銷不落實所以這個部分我們也積極的跟不管是所有的疫調人員或相關的單位還有人員有可能進出了傳播因為接觸了傳播所以這個東西都還在疫調過程中的釐清的一個階段"},{"start":161.983,"end":174.475,"text":"所以現在也沒有辦法說對什麼樣的人對暗場面的人跟車輛疫調過程中還沒辦法做隔離其實他們可能也已經趴趴照了"},{"start":176.831,"end":201.537,"text":"應該沒有因為這次的案例他的養豬場的投訴相對的比較少然後人員相對的也比較單純一點但是不管他少或單純他的足跡的追蹤跟他的這些關聯場我們都一一排查在第一輪裡面看起來沒有我舉個例子就是說那邊有沒有剛回國的家人或者外籍勞工可能接觸到的豬隻"},{"start":202.836,"end":226.774,"text":"初步的疫調是沒有啦但是我覺得這個東西都要做一些確認對 我想再確認再確認是很重要的因為根據媒體的報導即使經過消毒那還是在養殖場內剛剛部長也講找到這個DNA的病毒跟核酸那病毒的這個頑抗是令人很吃驚的我們看一下那個簡報"},{"start":228.715,"end":246.833,"text":"光看這個冷凍豬肉這病毒竟然還可以存活到一千天將近三年之久那如果是這樣的話可能廚餘或飼料還有病毒那你們有沒有採檢就是說飼料或廚餘然後發現到病毒呢"},{"start":247.273,"end":271.06,"text":"我們現在所有可能的就是跟這個案場有關的關聯場或者是他的移動的車輛那包括他的一些豬送到批發市場的所有的環境採檢都是陰性的並沒有發現只有在案例場做第二輪的檢測的時候還是發現特別是在殺豬的這個屠宰的地方"},{"start":271.92,"end":292.664,"text":"跟他的不是就是鋪砂的地方有發現到這些病毒的陽性那表示他的清消不確實我們已經要求了我來請教一個就是提一個假設性的問題那因為國際旅客也是也可能是一個感染的途徑如果"},{"start":293.26,"end":310.157,"text":"如果一個人就是說在別的國家吃了感染的食物然後下午來到台灣然後接觸到豬隻有沒有可能引起這一次的事件特別是在3到19天潛伏期內因為你們的疫調有沒有可能說漏掉這樣的疑慮"},{"start":311.345,"end":323.732,"text":"第一個那個非洲之瘟不是人序公共傳染病人不會接受不會感染變成潛伏的症狀這個是非常重要的是但但有沒有可能就是帶著這個"},{"start":325.307,"end":346.735,"text":"带着这个病毒他如果他的衣服就是有进到这种他们的畜牧场那就有非常高的机会进来了以后又到我们我们自己的畜牧场所以在这个机制上面其实我们过去的防疫就一直告诉我们的事主就是禁止就是到别的国家的畜牧场"},{"start":347.956,"end":356.857,"text":"這個是一直去那國內的豬農大概有這樣子一個觀念那相對他們也會預防就是一些其他的同業進到他們的養豬場"},{"start":358.431,"end":380.736,"text":"我想因為請教這麼多問題主要是說我想大家都了解就是說確認了這個感染的途徑或者是污染源那就是擬定防治病毒擴散的這個最首要的一個工作那即使沒有辦法確認我們起碼可以用排除的方式排除掉幾個可能性那就可以限縮這個防疫的範圍來專注其他的這個因素"},{"start":386.437,"end":408.855,"text":"那我想這個部分如果有需要的話本席也是建議就是說或許可以再多調查因為剛剛部長特別提到的那個接觸的那個風險那我想人力的部分大家可以再做一下調度那可以期許也可以順利找到這次感染的途徑跟原因"},{"start":409.655,"end":426.044,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我在工作會議的時候我也只是我們部裡面因為我們部裡面有相當多的單位有獸醫師也會協助這次的調查比較重要的是我們希望我們在跟時間賽跑所以這個疫調如果還有很多釐清的時候釐清的速度太慢的話"},{"start":427.318,"end":445.38,"text":"我們就怕萬一有一些盲點我們沒有去查到而這些盲點可能就是已經移到外面去我們不知道所以我們在跟時間賽跑所以我們會更積極的去針對台中暗場的這些疫調如果還有疑義的話進出去釐清好 謝謝部長要請回座那麻煩請彭部長"},{"start":452.03,"end":474.247,"text":"部長好我想今天的題目看起來好像比較偏重就是說我們他在討論廚餘也會擔心在沒有辦法排除這個原因之下有幾個問題想要請教這家養殖場的廚餘是不是來自於你們清潔隊廚餘回收所提供"},{"start":475.171,"end":487.524,"text":"目前來看是那也報告委員我們會配合農業部我們今天應該會有一些配合去做疫調的工作為什麼就是如果養殖場有加熱的話人會有存活的病毒"},{"start":488.596,"end":506.496,"text":"應該是有按照這個規定是90度以上一個小時就沒有這個病毒的存在但是我們可能按照他的申報的紀錄很有可能是這個真主不確實也有可能這樣的原因造成所以你們平常就是說在提供廚藝的同時有就是加強宣導如何有效的加熱檢測嗎"},{"start":507.957,"end":535.226,"text":"就是說我們有一個申報系統那當然它那個是一個輔助工具它如果沒有按時申報因為申報都要有溫度計在旁邊然後我們也知道它的日期在什麼時候那如果它沒有申報不確實有蠟的話那下個月我們就會發文給環保局要去集合因為看起來就是說目前台灣狀況是比較緊張一點那這樣子比較消極的一種處理方式我覺得可能在短期內我們可以稍微"},{"start":535.686,"end":558.271,"text":"更积极的对有效积极的来来宣导那我们还有就是是不是还有其他的这个养猪场来使用你们提供的厨余有总共400多家他是你说无期的养猪场就国内国内其他的养猪场"},{"start":559.251,"end":587.991,"text":"435家所以这个部分我想也应该要一并加强宣导这个住址的安全使用处理的资讯是因为我们现在还有5000多家养殖场没有感染就是说建议你们真的也是跟时间赛跑赶快去宣导甚至说要补贴这个低利贷款加热设备的购置有些小型的养殖户因为你们如果有些这个以200头做一个标准其实"},{"start":588.812,"end":604.56,"text":"其实我们台东很多都没有到200头自己收集厨余来养猪如果可以的话也请你们提供必要的协助特别是南部东部的地区的养殖个体户"},{"start":605.34,"end":623.686,"text":"雖然有時候地方政府可能禁止廚餘養豬但是有很多的個體戶或小型他們還是會有這樣的情形所以這個部分我想在台灣廚餘的利用它是流動而且它是跨縣式的所以不分使用"},{"start":624.346,"end":638.864,"text":"那政府收集的或者是自己去收集的這個廚餘那也沒有分這個大型專業養豬場或小型的個體戶只要有使用廚餘透過這個人車的移動都有可能造成這個防疫的破口"},{"start":639.284,"end":659.944,"text":"所以環境部應該透過你們比較就是更有效的這個政策工具來協助業者讓廚餘更安全的被使用所以特別是這個養豬的這個養豬場的珍珠廚餘用在這個飼料上都需要經過地方環保這個環保主管機關來核可的這個使用特定的這個設備珍珠"},{"start":661.765,"end":690.858,"text":"並且要受到這個政府的這個督導監管所以我不知道提這個意見部長認不認同委員認同那我們會來研究因為農業部他們規定是200頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘珍珠至於說低於這個的話那目前不行但是未來或許有一些集中珍珠場這跟國內使用這個豬的習慣跟養殖的習慣還是有關係所以我想這個就不要不要特別再去做這樣的區分了好 委員我們會來研究一下"},{"start":691.318,"end":708.348,"text":"對那我想最後利用一點點時間因為8月7號我們跟本席跟莊瑞雄委員王振旭委員還有林月琴委員我們到蘭嶼考察那關心了這個垃圾倉儲儲存場還有這個資源回收物清運的問題"},{"start":709.329,"end":724.745,"text":"那这个储存场因为要等这个县府台东县政府处理用地的问题所以我想我就先关心一下那个资源回收的部分哦清运的部分因为兰宇他是他是里岛所以他的这个垃圾哦"},{"start":725.586,"end":750.582,"text":"都特別需要船隻運到這個台灣來那成本相當高我想這不是鄉公所或縣政府可以負擔得起所以非常需要中央的協助那今年經費也剩下21萬元但是還有成山成堆的垃圾所以這個部分不曉得環境部這邊能夠提供什麼樣的協助因為上次講到目前為止進度如何"},{"start":750.882,"end":774.378,"text":"好報告委員這個這個案子我有特別關注喔那目前的程序是我們志願學院署已經審核那還沒有簽到我這邊但是應該會有很好的消息也謝謝委員提出這樣的一個想法我們會照委員的建議來實施所以他目前經費的規模900900多萬對是對沒有問題好那也拜託部長可以趕快蓋章好謝謝謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":949,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（11時41分）謝謝主席，麻煩請農業部陳部長跟防檢署主秘。"],["主席：請陳部長還有防檢署主秘。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。歡迎來到衛環委員會，最近臺中梧棲區發生了非洲豬瘟的案件，兩位非常辛苦，部裡同仁也很辛苦，謝謝你們的辛勞。不過我們還是要回到今天的主題，就是如何防止病毒的擴散，先請教一下部長，這次感染的原因跟途徑是不是已經確定了？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，現在的感染原因還沒辦法確認，因為整個疫調還在調查，過去臺灣都沒有非洲豬瘟，所以這個首例一定是從境外進來的。境外進來的時候，在我們整個防疫系統的設計，就是有不同的層次，境外我們儘可能去攔，那一定有百密一疏的地方。第二就是廚餘的部分一定要加強這些監管，就是蒸煮。再來就是這些豬場本身的自主，所以不同的防線才能夠有效的去防止這些豬瘟。"],["陳委員瑩：非洲豬瘟的感染途徑基本上大概有六個來源，分別是食用的廚餘、人車移動、野豬、污染飼料、接觸者的污染衣服跟國際旅客等。我想請教兩位，你們在進行疫情調查的時候，能不能排除這家養豬場有確實隔離人跟車輛的接觸嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：現在臺中市的疫調，我們也經過專家會議給予一些建議跟協助，包括疫調調查表，相對這些人員，特別是在案場，當初有做清消，但是我們第二輪會啟動所謂的環境的檢測，發現這個案場的環境檢測還是有採到陽性的反應，表示清消不落實，所以這個部分我們也積極的處理，不管是所有的疫調人員或相關單位，還有人員有可能進出的傳播、接觸的傳播，這些都還在疫調過程中的釐清階段。"],["陳委員瑩：所以現在也沒有辦法對什麼樣的人，對案場裡面的人跟車輛……"],["陳部長駿季：對，現在還沒辦法，疫調過程中還沒有辦法確定。"],["陳委員瑩：對，還沒辦法做隔離，其實他們可能也已經趴趴走了。"],["陳部長駿季：應該沒有，因為這一次的案例，養豬場的頭數相對比較少，然後人員相對也比較單純一點，但是不管他少或單純，對於足跡追蹤跟關聯場我們都一一盤查，在第一輪裡面看起來沒有。"],["陳委員瑩：我舉個例子，那邊有沒有剛回國的家人？或外籍勞工可能接觸到豬隻？"],["陳部長駿季：初步的疫調是沒有啦！但是我覺得這個東西都要做一些確認。"],["陳委員瑩：對，我想確認再確認是很重要的，因為根據媒體的報導，即使經過消毒，還是在養殖場內，剛剛部長也講找到DNA的病毒跟核酸，病毒的頑抗很是令人吃驚的。我們看一下簡報，光看冷凍豬肉，病毒竟然還可以存活到1,000天，將近3年之久，如果是這樣的話，可能廚餘或飼料還有病毒。你們有沒有採檢飼料或廚餘，然後發現病毒呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在所有可能的，就是跟這個案場有關的關聯場，或者是他們的移動車輛，包括有一些豬送到批發市場，所有的環境採檢都是陰性，並沒有發現。只有在案例場做第二輪檢測的時候發現，特別是在屠宰的地方……不是，應該是撲殺的地方有發現到這些病毒陽性，表示他的清消不確實，我們已經要求了。"],["陳委員瑩：我請教一個假設性的問題，因為國際旅客也可能是一個感染的途徑，如果一個人在別的國家吃了感染的食物，然後下午來到臺灣並接觸到豬隻，有沒有可能引起這次的事件？特別是在3到19天潛伏期內，你們的疫調有沒有可能漏掉這樣的疑慮？"],["陳部長駿季：非洲豬瘟不是人畜共通傳染病，人不會感染變成潛伏的症狀，這個是非常重要的。"],["陳委員瑩：是，但有沒有可能帶著這個病毒？"],["陳部長駿季：如果他的衣服有進到畜牧場，那就有非常高的機會，進來了以後又到我們自己的畜牧場。所以在這個機制上面，其實我們過去的防疫就一直告訴飼主，禁止他們到別的國家的畜牧場，國內的豬農大概也有這樣的觀念，相對他們也會預防其他同業進到他們的養豬場。"],["陳委員瑩：我請教了這麼多問題，主要是想讓大家都了解，確認了感染的途徑或者是污染源，擬定防治病毒擴散是最首要的工作，即使沒有辦法確認，我們起碼可以用排除的方式，排除掉幾個可能性，這樣就可以限縮防疫的範圍，也能專注於其他因素。我想這個部分如果有需要的話，本席建議，或許可以再多調查，因為剛剛部長也特別提到接觸的風險，我想人力的部分，大家可以再做一下調度，期許可以順利找到這次感染的途徑跟原因。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒，我在工作會議的時候也有指示，因為我們部裡面有相當多的單位有獸醫師，他們也會協助這次的調查。比較重要的是，我們在跟時間賽跑，所以這個疫調如果釐清的速度太慢，我們就怕萬一有一些盲點，我們沒有查到，而這些盲點可能已經移到外面而我們不知道，所以我們在跟時間賽跑。我們會更積極地去針對臺中案場的這些疫調，如果還有疑義的話儘速去釐清。"],["陳委員瑩：謝謝部長，請回座，麻煩請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。我想今天的題目看起來好像比較偏重於我們大家都在討論的廚餘，因為也會擔心。在沒有辦法排除這個原因的情況下，有幾個問題想要請教，這家養殖場的廚餘，是不是來自於你們清潔隊廚餘回收所提供的？"],["彭部長啓明：目前來看是，也跟委員報告，我們會配合農業部，今天應該會有一些配合疫調的工作。"],["陳委員瑩：為什麼養殖場有加熱的話，仍會有存活的病毒？"],["彭部長啓明：如果有按照規定90度以上1個小時就沒有這個病毒的存在，但是我們按照他的申報紀錄，很有可能是蒸煮不確實，也有可能是這樣的原因造成。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你們平常在提供廚餘的同時有加強宣導如何有效的加熱減毒嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我們有一個申報系統，當然它是一個輔助工具，因為申報都要有溫度計在旁邊，然後我們也會知道日期是什麼時候，如果申報不確實、有落下的話，下個月我們就會發文給環保局去稽核。"],["陳委員瑩：因為看起來目前臺灣狀況是比較緊張一點，這樣比較消極的處理方式，我覺得在短期內我們可以稍微……"],["彭部長啓明：更積極。"],["陳委員瑩：對，有效且積極的宣導。我們是不是還有其他的養豬場使用你們提供的廚餘？"],["彭部長啓明：有，總共四百多家，委員是說梧棲的養豬場？"],["陳委員瑩：就國內其他的養豬場。"],["彭部長啓明：有435家。"],["陳委員瑩：435家，所以這個部分，我想也應該要一併加強宣導豬隻安全使用廚餘的資訊。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["陳委員瑩：因為我們現在還有五千多家養豬場沒有感染，建議你們真的是要跟時間賽跑，趕快去宣導，甚至要補貼低利貸款加熱設備的購置。有些小型的養殖戶，如果你們以兩百頭作為一個標準，其實我們臺東很多都沒有到兩百頭，自己蒐集廚餘來養豬，如果可以的話也請你們提供必要的協助。特別是南部、東部地區的養殖個體戶，雖然有時候地方政府可能禁止廚餘養豬，但是有很多的個體戶或小型戶還是會有這樣的情形。","在臺灣廚餘的利用是流動的，而且是跨縣市的，所以不分政府搜集或自己搜集廚餘，也沒有分大型專業養豬場或小型的個體戶。只要有使用廚餘，透過人車的移動，都有可能造成防疫的破口，所以環境部應該透過你們更有效的政策工具來協助業者，讓廚餘更安全地被使用。特別是養豬場的蒸煮廚餘用在飼料上，都需要經過地方環保主管機關核可，使用特定的設備蒸煮，並且要受到政府的督導、監管，不知道我提這個意見部長認不認同？"],["彭部長啓明：認同，我們會來研究，因為農業部他們規定是兩百頭以上的豬才可以用廚餘蒸煮，至於低於這個數字的話目前不行，但是未來或許有一些集中蒸煮場……"],["陳委員瑩：這跟國內食用豬隻跟養殖的習慣還是有關係，所以我想這個就不要特別再去做這樣的區分。"],["彭部長啓明：好的委員，我們會來研究一下。"],["陳委員瑩：我想最後利用一點點時間，因為8月7日本席跟莊瑞雄委員、王正旭委員，還有林月琴委員到蘭嶼考察，關心了垃圾倉儲貯存廠還有資源回收物清運的問題，因為貯存廠要等臺中縣政府處理用地的問題，所以我先關心一下資源回收清運的部分。因為蘭嶼是離島，所以它的垃圾都需要船隻特別運到臺灣來，成本相當高。我想這不是鄉公所或縣政府可以負擔得起的，所以非常需要中央的協助。","今年經費只剩下21萬元，但是還有成山成堆的垃圾，這個部分不曉得環境部這邊能夠提供什麼樣的協助？因為上次有講到，目前為止進度如何？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個案子我有特別關注，目前的程序是我們循環署這邊已經審核，還沒有簽到我這邊，但是應該會有很好的消息，也謝謝委員提出這樣的想法，我們會照委員的建議來實施。"],["陳委員瑩：所以他們目前經費的規模？"],["彭部長啓明：九百多萬，沒有問題。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那也拜託部長可以趕快蓋章。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員的建議。"],["陳委員瑩：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來請陳素月委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","陳瑩","陳素月","謝龍介","王鴻薇","徐富癸","王正旭","涂權吉","楊曜","吳沛憶","牛煦庭","盧縣一","何欣純","范雲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴\n散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查( 一) 行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四\n十九條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員魯明哲等16 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等\n19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉\n玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十\n二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員劉建國等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第\n六條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十五) 委員沈發惠等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏\n等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人\n擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員林淑芬等21人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分\n條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)\n委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修\n正草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149002_00001"}}}