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\"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 503.978, \"end\": 504.138, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 504.138, \"end\": 504.298, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 504.298, \"end\": 504.499, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 504.499, \"end\": 504.599, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 504.599, \"end\": 504.619, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 504.619, \"end\": 504.639, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,106 --> 00:00:41,141\n主席我請兩位補充好請兩位部長委員好補充好委員好這般的噴漆滴很嚴肅的問題不能再稍微提了風壓本來就是中庸的一款你看蘇貞昌一定有同期期什麼樣的態度對不對\n\n2\n00:00:43,563 --> 00:01:03,610\n他自己去到地上的方式破口那麼今天問題發生中央地方如果沒有一條心就對了我專門扣除了台灣用地産業恐怕會參不領導我今天想你探討這個池地的問題因為噴水後沒辦法氣化\n\n3\n00:01:10,362 --> 00:01:31,069\n所以黃金寶有補助地方啊啊這個噴來做堆肥的喔更有優勢你不要叫地方的所理幫你騙副的地方說你看我們台台我們這裡已經做得很好啊台中都這樣噴了五百度這才是事實噴的企劃我請教兩位部長日本怎麼做\n\n4\n00:01:40,658 --> 00:02:04,646\n三十年前三十年前日本就已經把噴化作治療人家噴不是只有咖喱而已他的噴走到滾來治療是四十五年前的事情一直到三十五年前他感覺這種包括這個烤地藥包括這個肥皂滴汁\n\n5\n00:02:05,646 --> 00:02:23,583\n農有可能會減量所以已經不再用我們地農的把它們分開來賺錢但是地農沒有那個能力它產業的薪金也沒有那個能力來把它們做工業給它處理\n\n6\n00:02:26,107 --> 00:02:26,747\n我跟委員報告現在\n\n7\n00:02:41,806 --> 00:02:56,915\n噴在池底的時候除了說一般的廚餘他還是要跟一般植物性的料源去混合你說的日本日本的廚餘不是跟我們台灣的廚餘一樣他有分一些植物性的跟動物性的開始就把它分開了\n\n8\n00:03:00,937 --> 00:03:16,723\n收到的時候兌到這個檔單兌到餐廳其實是特殊的碰點譬如說全台灣現在生態餐廳很多市長的還有這個烘焙業種種不一樣的年老的把這個噴了它不是檔單這樣煮煮的就沒底價\n\n9\n00:03:27,884 --> 00:03:55,328\n他要知道添加就是說以工業化的設備大規模譬如說有4D在國管制你們想辦法補助一下然後呢我們的用地的3D可以升級他不但把這噴修進來消毒以外高溫的消毒還要添加營養劑甚至添加蛋白質然後呢做成乾燥料的肥料\n\n10\n00:03:56,968 --> 00:04:05,127\n這個肥料沒有滴溶雖然比它脂肪成分比較高一點但是比它吃全脂料成分比較低保證是不是這樣\n\n11\n00:04:06,237 --> 00:04:16,140\n對他現在有一個階級我也有去了解大概6500萬一天可以做25噸但是像委員講的你頭上的廚藝要分類這個環境保證嘛不是分類是這樣嘛你要做企劃之後要做後備要做是沒工的嘛這就保證你這裡要用心嘛\n\n12\n00:04:32,292 --> 00:04:49,026\n因為你目前我看是你沒有具體的辦法沒有我們還是這個真主的部分呢給豬吃飼料的部分還是農業部這邊處理那我們當然是希望未來能夠更加的去化處理的收集是你們的業務就是說對元頭要去處理分的時候就應該要做初級分類這樣後面農業部的身分才會更多\n\n13\n00:04:58,334 --> 00:05:15,271\n以身分鋼筋療養做出來的品質比較有體性比較有辦法讓整個腰底、三脊、蹄膿可以接受你這種的治療啦我講的意思是這樣不然你覺得是怎樣你有建議這個做法嗎\n\n14\n00:05:17,253 --> 00:05:44,076\n感謝委員建議你剛才講的我們陣營已經有在研究在做你們研究幾檔啊你知道嗎我們已經日本就做30幾檔我們只有在那裡噴要刺刀不刺刀噴要刺刀不刺刀這樣拿20幾檔我跟你講要放棄身分要控制他們的身分當然對基隆來說我身分如何如何但是安全是沒辦法的\n\n15\n00:05:45,604 --> 00:05:46,750\n所以如果是這套的辦法\n\n16\n00:05:48,511 --> 00:06:15,966\n我們聯邦可以共同來福德地方政府真真正正可以用這個高溫殺菌抗藥法看守療養行為治療新的治療當然這個添加經過添加的過程跟製造的過程有增加的成本所以政府要補助到什麼程度那麼是要福德藥治來充輸而且是地方政府統一管理療養\n\n17\n00:06:18,108 --> 00:06:22,140\n統一緩衝才會用到新的治療你的看法是怎樣\n\n18\n00:06:23,456 --> 00:06:49,405\n我基本上暫時委員在說的就是說我們長久的時候要把我們的廚餘變成用工業的手段變成飼料啦這個飼料的部分第一點就是說要有入飼完異素入飼完異素就是說豬農本身要用所以這個部分我們已經把它變成一個我們在討論的方案之一啦因為廚餘的再利用的部分特別是放去豬吃的時候\n\n19\n00:06:51,105 --> 00:07:02,074\n有很一種的你如果爭主你如果說不可能都怕你我們在討論這個方案就是已經沒有爭主的問題了嘛但是不是一定要在那邊行公義喔我們的爭主才能夠退場這個是有他的一些顧慮期我知道嘛就是說現在沒有在討論爭主我想說新的方向新的做法我們環境部跟農業部可以合作跟地方來做這個配合平坡中我講的意思確定比較清楚吧\n\n20\n00:07:20,429 --> 00:07:44,019\n這個我們有在研議啦因為我們也在看國外有幾個新的到底哪一個是適合台灣未來的發展的確是我覺得你說的沒錯要細分類因為現在像餐廳其實它有不一樣的餐廳的形態事業的形態也要做好一個分類沒關係啦你一陣子可以有一個粗暴的兵局報告可行性的兵局委員因為現在這位很忙他我上禮拜接到電話一直忙到現在三個位好不好沒關係OK半天也沒關係因為\n\n21\n00:07:50,342 --> 00:08:12,084\n剛才博長你說你們都一直在研究一直在研究顯然沒有啦要落實因為這是一個企業專行用地升級專行很好的契機啦我進行經濟委員會我就講日本已經有成功的這個契機如果要授權我都願意直接授權進來\n\n22\n00:08:13,826 --> 00:08:24,639\n這個部分就是看他的那個啦人家已經做三十年了沒中這三十年來也很多學者有拿出建議嘛現在是關心在你要跟不要而已好不好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15106\t41141\t主席 我請兩位補充好 請兩位部長委員好 補充好 委員好這般的噴漆滴很嚴肅的問題 不能再稍微提了風壓本來就是中庸的一款 你看蘇貞昌一定有同期期 什麼樣的態度 對不對\n43563\t63610\t他自己去到地上的方式破口那麼今天問題發生中央地方如果沒有一條心就對了我專門扣除了台灣用地産業恐怕會參不領導我今天想你探討這個池地的問題因為噴水後沒辦法氣化\n70362\t91069\t所以 黃金寶有補助地方啊 啊這個噴來做堆肥的 喔 更有優勢你不要叫地方的所理幫你騙 副的地方說 你看我們台 台 我們這裡已經做得很好啊 台中都這樣噴了五百度 這才是事實噴的企劃 我請教兩位部長 日本怎麼做\n100658\t124646\t三十年前 三十年前日本就已經把噴化作治療人家噴不是只有咖喱而已 他的噴走到滾來治療是四十五年前的事情一直到三十五年前 他感覺這種包括這個烤地藥 包括這個肥皂滴汁\n125646\t143583\t農有可能會減量 所以已經不再用我們地農的 把它們分開來賺錢但是地農沒有那個能力 它產業的薪金也沒有那個能力 來把它們做工業給它處理\n146107\t146747\t我跟委員報告 現在\n161806\t176915\t噴在池底的時候除了說一般的廚餘他還是要跟一般植物性的料源去混合你說的日本 日本的廚餘不是跟我們台灣的廚餘一樣他有分一些植物性的跟動物性的開始就把它分開了\n180937\t196723\t收到的時候 兌到這個檔單 兌到餐廳其實是特殊的碰點 譬如說全台灣現在生態餐廳很多 市長的 還有這個烘焙業 種種不一樣的年老的 把這個噴了 它不是檔單 這樣煮煮的就沒底價\n207884\t235328\t他要知道添加就是說以工業化的設備大規模 譬如說有4D在國管制你們想辦法補助一下然後呢 我們的用地的3D可以升級他不但把這噴修進來消毒以外 高溫的消毒 還要添加營養劑甚至添加蛋白質然後呢 做成乾燥料的肥料\n236968\t245127\t這個肥料沒有滴溶 雖然比它脂肪 成分比較高一點但是比它吃全脂料 成分比較低 保證是不是這樣\n246237\t256140\t對 他現在有一個階級 我也有去了解大概6500萬一天可以做25噸但是像委員講的 你頭上的廚藝要分類這個環境保證嘛 不是分類是這樣嘛 你要做企劃之後 要做後備 要做是沒工的嘛這就保證你這裡要用心嘛\n272292\t289026\t因為你目前我看是你沒有具體的辦法沒有 我們還是這個真主的部分呢給豬吃飼料的部分還是農業部這邊處理那我們當然是希望未來能夠更加的去化處理的收集是你們的業務就是說對元頭要去處理分的時候就應該要做初級分類這樣後面農業部的身分才會更多\n298334\t315271\t以身分鋼筋療養做出來的品質比較有體性 比較有辦法讓整個腰底、三脊、蹄膿可以接受你這種的治療啦我講的意思是這樣 不然你覺得是怎樣 你有建議這個做法嗎\n317253\t344076\t感謝委員 建議 你剛才講的 我們陣營已經有在研究 在做你們研究幾檔啊 你知道嗎我們已經 日本就做30幾檔我們只有在那裡 噴 要刺刀 不刺刀 噴 要刺刀 不刺刀這樣拿20幾檔 我跟你講 要放棄身分 要控制他們的身分當然對基隆來說 我身分如何如何 但是安全是沒辦法的\n345604\t346750\t所以如果是這套的辦法\n348511\t375966\t我們聯邦可以共同來福德地方政府真真正正可以用這個高溫殺菌抗藥法看守療養行為 治療 新的治療當然這個添加經過添加的過程跟製造的過程有增加的成本所以政府要補助到什麼程度那麼是要福德藥治來充輸而且是地方政府統一管理療養\n378108\t382140\t統一緩衝才會用到新的治療 你的看法是怎樣\n383456\t409405\t我基本上暫時 委員在說的 就是說我們長久的時候要把我們的廚餘變成用工業的手段變成飼料啦這個飼料的部分 第一點就是說 要有入飼完異素入飼完異素就是說 豬農本身要用所以這個部分 我們已經把它變成一個我們在討論的方案之一啦因為廚餘的再利用的部分 特別是放去豬吃的時候\n411105\t422074\t有很一種的 你如果爭主你如果說不可能都怕你我們在討論這個方案就是已經沒有爭主的問題了嘛但是不是一定要在那邊行公義喔我們的爭主才能夠退場這個是有他的一些顧慮期 我知道嘛 就是說現在沒有在討論爭主 我想說新的方向新的做法 我們環境部跟農業部可以合作跟地方來做這個配合 平坡中我講的意思 確定比較清楚吧\n440429\t464019\t這個我們有在研議啦因為我們也在看國外有幾個新的到底哪一個是適合台灣未來的發展的確是 我覺得你說的沒錯 要細分類因為現在像餐廳其實它有不一樣的餐廳的形態 事業的形態也要做好一個分類沒關係啦 你一陣子可以有一個粗暴的兵局報告 可行性的兵局委員 因為現在這位很忙他我上禮拜接到電話一直忙到現在三個位好不好沒關係 OK 半天也沒關係 因為\n470342\t492084\t剛才博長你說你們都一直在研究一直在研究 顯然沒有啦要落實 因為這是一個企業專行 用地升級專行 很好的契機啦 我進行經濟委員會我就講 日本已經有成功的這個契機 如果要授權我都願意直接授權進來\n493826\t504639\t這個部分就是看他的那個啦人家已經做三十年了 沒中這三十年來 也很多學者有拿出建議嘛現在是關心在你 要跟不要而已好不好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席 我請兩位補充好 請兩位部長委員好 補充好 委員好這般的噴漆滴很嚴肅的問題 不能再稍微提了風壓本來就是中庸的一款 你看蘇貞昌一定有同期期 什麼樣的態度 對不對\n他自己去到地上的方式破口那麼今天問題發生中央地方如果沒有一條心就對了我專門扣除了台灣用地産業恐怕會參不領導我今天想你探討這個池地的問題因為噴水後沒辦法氣化\n所以 黃金寶有補助地方啊 啊這個噴來做堆肥的 喔 更有優勢你不要叫地方的所理幫你騙 副的地方說 你看我們台 台 我們這裡已經做得很好啊 台中都這樣噴了五百度 這才是事實噴的企劃 我請教兩位部長 日本怎麼做\n三十年前 三十年前日本就已經把噴化作治療人家噴不是只有咖喱而已 他的噴走到滾來治療是四十五年前的事情一直到三十五年前 他感覺這種包括這個烤地藥 包括這個肥皂滴汁\n農有可能會減量 所以已經不再用我們地農的 把它們分開來賺錢但是地農沒有那個能力 它產業的薪金也沒有那個能力 來把它們做工業給它處理\n我跟委員報告 現在\n噴在池底的時候除了說一般的廚餘他還是要跟一般植物性的料源去混合你說的日本 日本的廚餘不是跟我們台灣的廚餘一樣他有分一些植物性的跟動物性的開始就把它分開了\n收到的時候 兌到這個檔單 兌到餐廳其實是特殊的碰點 譬如說全台灣現在生態餐廳很多 市長的 還有這個烘焙業 種種不一樣的年老的 把這個噴了 它不是檔單 這樣煮煮的就沒底價\n他要知道添加就是說以工業化的設備大規模 譬如說有4D在國管制你們想辦法補助一下然後呢 我們的用地的3D可以升級他不但把這噴修進來消毒以外 高溫的消毒 還要添加營養劑甚至添加蛋白質然後呢 做成乾燥料的肥料\n這個肥料沒有滴溶 雖然比它脂肪 成分比較高一點但是比它吃全脂料 成分比較低 保證是不是這樣\n對 他現在有一個階級 我也有去了解大概6500萬一天可以做25噸但是像委員講的 你頭上的廚藝要分類這個環境保證嘛 不是分類是這樣嘛 你要做企劃之後 要做後備 要做是沒工的嘛這就保證你這裡要用心嘛\n因為你目前我看是你沒有具體的辦法沒有 我們還是這個真主的部分呢給豬吃飼料的部分還是農業部這邊處理那我們當然是希望未來能夠更加的去化處理的收集是你們的業務就是說對元頭要去處理分的時候就應該要做初級分類這樣後面農業部的身分才會更多\n以身分鋼筋療養做出來的品質比較有體性 比較有辦法讓整個腰底、三脊、蹄膿可以接受你這種的治療啦我講的意思是這樣 不然你覺得是怎樣 你有建議這個做法嗎\n感謝委員 建議 你剛才講的 我們陣營已經有在研究 在做你們研究幾檔啊 你知道嗎我們已經 日本就做30幾檔我們只有在那裡 噴 要刺刀 不刺刀 噴 要刺刀 不刺刀這樣拿20幾檔 我跟你講 要放棄身分 要控制他們的身分當然對基隆來說 我身分如何如何 但是安全是沒辦法的\n所以如果是這套的辦法\n我們聯邦可以共同來福德地方政府真真正正可以用這個高溫殺菌抗藥法看守療養行為 治療 新的治療當然這個添加經過添加的過程跟製造的過程有增加的成本所以政府要補助到什麼程度那麼是要福德藥治來充輸而且是地方政府統一管理療養\n統一緩衝才會用到新的治療 你的看法是怎樣\n我基本上暫時 委員在說的 就是說我們長久的時候要把我們的廚餘變成用工業的手段變成飼料啦這個飼料的部分 第一點就是說 要有入飼完異素入飼完異素就是說 豬農本身要用所以這個部分 我們已經把它變成一個我們在討論的方案之一啦因為廚餘的再利用的部分 特別是放去豬吃的時候\n有很一種的 你如果爭主你如果說不可能都怕你我們在討論這個方案就是已經沒有爭主的問題了嘛但是不是一定要在那邊行公義喔我們的爭主才能夠退場這個是有他的一些顧慮期 我知道嘛 就是說現在沒有在討論爭主 我想說新的方向新的做法 我們環境部跟農業部可以合作跟地方來做這個配合 平坡中我講的意思 確定比較清楚吧\n這個我們有在研議啦因為我們也在看國外有幾個新的到底哪一個是適合台灣未來的發展的確是 我覺得你說的沒錯 要細分類因為現在像餐廳其實它有不一樣的餐廳的形態 事業的形態也要做好一個分類沒關係啦 你一陣子可以有一個粗暴的兵局報告 可行性的兵局委員 因為現在這位很忙他我上禮拜接到電話一直忙到現在三個位好不好沒關係 OK 半天也沒關係 因為\n剛才博長你說你們都一直在研究一直在研究 顯然沒有啦要落實 因為這是一個企業專行 用地升級專行 很好的契機啦 我進行經濟委員會我就講 日本已經有成功的這個契機 如果要授權我都願意直接授權進來\n這個部分就是看他的那個啦人家已經做三十年了 沒中這三十年來 也很多學者有拿出建議嘛現在是關心在你 要跟不要而已好不好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.106 --> 00:41.141\n主席我請兩位補充好請兩位部長委員好補充好委員好這般的噴漆滴很嚴肅的問題不能再稍微提了風壓本來就是中庸的一款你看蘇貞昌一定有同期期什麼樣的態度對不對\n\n00:43.563 --> 01:03.610\n他自己去到地上的方式破口那麼今天問題發生中央地方如果沒有一條心就對了我專門扣除了台灣用地産業恐怕會參不領導我今天想你探討這個池地的問題因為噴水後沒辦法氣化\n\n01:10.362 --> 01:31.069\n所以黃金寶有補助地方啊啊這個噴來做堆肥的喔更有優勢你不要叫地方的所理幫你騙副的地方說你看我們台台我們這裡已經做得很好啊台中都這樣噴了五百度這才是事實噴的企劃我請教兩位部長日本怎麼做\n\n01:40.658 --> 02:04.646\n三十年前三十年前日本就已經把噴化作治療人家噴不是只有咖喱而已他的噴走到滾來治療是四十五年前的事情一直到三十五年前他感覺這種包括這個烤地藥包括這個肥皂滴汁\n\n02:05.646 --> 02:23.583\n農有可能會減量所以已經不再用我們地農的把它們分開來賺錢但是地農沒有那個能力它產業的薪金也沒有那個能力來把它們做工業給它處理\n\n02:26.107 --> 02:26.747\n我跟委員報告現在\n\n02:41.806 --> 02:56.915\n噴在池底的時候除了說一般的廚餘他還是要跟一般植物性的料源去混合你說的日本日本的廚餘不是跟我們台灣的廚餘一樣他有分一些植物性的跟動物性的開始就把它分開了\n\n03:00.937 --> 03:16.723\n收到的時候兌到這個檔單兌到餐廳其實是特殊的碰點譬如說全台灣現在生態餐廳很多市長的還有這個烘焙業種種不一樣的年老的把這個噴了它不是檔單這樣煮煮的就沒底價\n\n03:27.884 --> 03:55.328\n他要知道添加就是說以工業化的設備大規模譬如說有4D在國管制你們想辦法補助一下然後呢我們的用地的3D可以升級他不但把這噴修進來消毒以外高溫的消毒還要添加營養劑甚至添加蛋白質然後呢做成乾燥料的肥料\n\n03:56.968 --> 04:05.127\n這個肥料沒有滴溶雖然比它脂肪成分比較高一點但是比它吃全脂料成分比較低保證是不是這樣\n\n04:06.237 --> 04:16.140\n對他現在有一個階級我也有去了解大概6500萬一天可以做25噸但是像委員講的你頭上的廚藝要分類這個環境保證嘛不是分類是這樣嘛你要做企劃之後要做後備要做是沒工的嘛這就保證你這裡要用心嘛\n\n04:32.292 --> 04:49.026\n因為你目前我看是你沒有具體的辦法沒有我們還是這個真主的部分呢給豬吃飼料的部分還是農業部這邊處理那我們當然是希望未來能夠更加的去化處理的收集是你們的業務就是說對元頭要去處理分的時候就應該要做初級分類這樣後面農業部的身分才會更多\n\n04:58.334 --> 05:15.271\n以身分鋼筋療養做出來的品質比較有體性比較有辦法讓整個腰底、三脊、蹄膿可以接受你這種的治療啦我講的意思是這樣不然你覺得是怎樣你有建議這個做法嗎\n\n05:17.253 --> 05:44.076\n感謝委員建議你剛才講的我們陣營已經有在研究在做你們研究幾檔啊你知道嗎我們已經日本就做30幾檔我們只有在那裡噴要刺刀不刺刀噴要刺刀不刺刀這樣拿20幾檔我跟你講要放棄身分要控制他們的身分當然對基隆來說我身分如何如何但是安全是沒辦法的\n\n05:45.604 --> 05:46.750\n所以如果是這套的辦法\n\n05:48.511 --> 06:15.966\n我們聯邦可以共同來福德地方政府真真正正可以用這個高溫殺菌抗藥法看守療養行為治療新的治療當然這個添加經過添加的過程跟製造的過程有增加的成本所以政府要補助到什麼程度那麼是要福德藥治來充輸而且是地方政府統一管理療養\n\n06:18.108 --> 06:22.140\n統一緩衝才會用到新的治療你的看法是怎樣\n\n06:23.456 --> 06:49.405\n我基本上暫時委員在說的就是說我們長久的時候要把我們的廚餘變成用工業的手段變成飼料啦這個飼料的部分第一點就是說要有入飼完異素入飼完異素就是說豬農本身要用所以這個部分我們已經把它變成一個我們在討論的方案之一啦因為廚餘的再利用的部分特別是放去豬吃的時候\n\n06:51.105 --> 07:02.074\n有很一種的你如果爭主你如果說不可能都怕你我們在討論這個方案就是已經沒有爭主的問題了嘛但是不是一定要在那邊行公義喔我們的爭主才能夠退場這個是有他的一些顧慮期我知道嘛就是說現在沒有在討論爭主我想說新的方向新的做法我們環境部跟農業部可以合作跟地方來做這個配合平坡中我講的意思確定比較清楚吧\n\n07:20.429 --> 07:44.019\n這個我們有在研議啦因為我們也在看國外有幾個新的到底哪一個是適合台灣未來的發展的確是我覺得你說的沒錯要細分類因為現在像餐廳其實它有不一樣的餐廳的形態事業的形態也要做好一個分類沒關係啦你一陣子可以有一個粗暴的兵局報告可行性的兵局委員因為現在這位很忙他我上禮拜接到電話一直忙到現在三個位好不好沒關係OK半天也沒關係因為\n\n07:50.342 --> 08:12.084\n剛才博長你說你們都一直在研究一直在研究顯然沒有啦要落實因為這是一個企業專行用地升級專行很好的契機啦我進行經濟委員會我就講日本已經有成功的這個契機如果要授權我都願意直接授權進來\n\n08:13.826 --> 08:24.639\n這個部分就是看他的那個啦人家已經做三十年了沒中這三十年來也很多學者有拿出建議嘛現在是關心在你要跟不要而已好不好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.106,"end":41.141,"text":"主席 我請兩位補充好 請兩位部長委員好 補充好 委員好這般的噴漆滴很嚴肅的問題 不能再稍微提了風壓本來就是中庸的一款 你看蘇貞昌一定有同期期 什麼樣的態度 對不對"},{"start":43.563,"end":63.61,"text":"他自己去到地上的方式破口那麼今天問題發生中央地方如果沒有一條心就對了我專門扣除了台灣用地産業恐怕會參不領導我今天想你探討這個池地的問題因為噴水後沒辦法氣化"},{"start":70.362,"end":91.069,"text":"所以 黃金寶有補助地方啊 啊這個噴來做堆肥的 喔 更有優勢你不要叫地方的所理幫你騙 副的地方說 你看我們台 台 我們這裡已經做得很好啊 台中都這樣噴了五百度 這才是事實噴的企劃 我請教兩位部長 日本怎麼做"},{"start":100.658,"end":124.646,"text":"三十年前 三十年前日本就已經把噴化作治療人家噴不是只有咖喱而已 他的噴走到滾來治療是四十五年前的事情一直到三十五年前 他感覺這種包括這個烤地藥 包括這個肥皂滴汁"},{"start":125.646,"end":143.583,"text":"農有可能會減量 所以已經不再用我們地農的 把它們分開來賺錢但是地農沒有那個能力 它產業的薪金也沒有那個能力 來把它們做工業給它處理"},{"start":146.107,"end":146.747,"text":"我跟委員報告 現在"},{"start":161.806,"end":176.915,"text":"噴在池底的時候除了說一般的廚餘他還是要跟一般植物性的料源去混合你說的日本 日本的廚餘不是跟我們台灣的廚餘一樣他有分一些植物性的跟動物性的開始就把它分開了"},{"start":180.937,"end":196.723,"text":"收到的時候 兌到這個檔單 兌到餐廳其實是特殊的碰點 譬如說全台灣現在生態餐廳很多 市長的 還有這個烘焙業 種種不一樣的年老的 把這個噴了 它不是檔單 這樣煮煮的就沒底價"},{"start":207.884,"end":235.328,"text":"他要知道添加就是說以工業化的設備大規模 譬如說有4D在國管制你們想辦法補助一下然後呢 我們的用地的3D可以升級他不但把這噴修進來消毒以外 高溫的消毒 還要添加營養劑甚至添加蛋白質然後呢 做成乾燥料的肥料"},{"start":236.968,"end":245.127,"text":"這個肥料沒有滴溶 雖然比它脂肪 成分比較高一點但是比它吃全脂料 成分比較低 保證是不是這樣"},{"start":246.237,"end":256.14,"text":"對 他現在有一個階級 我也有去了解大概6500萬一天可以做25噸但是像委員講的 你頭上的廚藝要分類這個環境保證嘛 不是分類是這樣嘛 你要做企劃之後 要做後備 要做是沒工的嘛這就保證你這裡要用心嘛"},{"start":272.292,"end":289.026,"text":"因為你目前我看是你沒有具體的辦法沒有 我們還是這個真主的部分呢給豬吃飼料的部分還是農業部這邊處理那我們當然是希望未來能夠更加的去化處理的收集是你們的業務就是說對元頭要去處理分的時候就應該要做初級分類這樣後面農業部的身分才會更多"},{"start":298.334,"end":315.271,"text":"以身分鋼筋療養做出來的品質比較有體性 比較有辦法讓整個腰底、三脊、蹄膿可以接受你這種的治療啦我講的意思是這樣 不然你覺得是怎樣 你有建議這個做法嗎"},{"start":317.253,"end":344.076,"text":"感謝委員 建議 你剛才講的 我們陣營已經有在研究 在做你們研究幾檔啊 你知道嗎我們已經 日本就做30幾檔我們只有在那裡 噴 要刺刀 不刺刀 噴 要刺刀 不刺刀這樣拿20幾檔 我跟你講 要放棄身分 要控制他們的身分當然對基隆來說 我身分如何如何 但是安全是沒辦法的"},{"start":345.604,"end":346.75,"text":"所以如果是這套的辦法"},{"start":348.511,"end":375.966,"text":"我們聯邦可以共同來福德地方政府真真正正可以用這個高溫殺菌抗藥法看守療養行為 治療 新的治療當然這個添加經過添加的過程跟製造的過程有增加的成本所以政府要補助到什麼程度那麼是要福德藥治來充輸而且是地方政府統一管理療養"},{"start":378.108,"end":382.14,"text":"統一緩衝才會用到新的治療 你的看法是怎樣"},{"start":383.456,"end":409.405,"text":"我基本上暫時 委員在說的 就是說我們長久的時候要把我們的廚餘變成用工業的手段變成飼料啦這個飼料的部分 第一點就是說 要有入飼完異素入飼完異素就是說 豬農本身要用所以這個部分 我們已經把它變成一個我們在討論的方案之一啦因為廚餘的再利用的部分 特別是放去豬吃的時候"},{"start":411.105,"end":422.074,"text":"有很一種的 你如果爭主你如果說不可能都怕你我們在討論這個方案就是已經沒有爭主的問題了嘛但是不是一定要在那邊行公義喔我們的爭主才能夠退場這個是有他的一些顧慮期 我知道嘛 就是說現在沒有在討論爭主 我想說新的方向新的做法 我們環境部跟農業部可以合作跟地方來做這個配合 平坡中我講的意思 確定比較清楚吧"},{"start":440.429,"end":464.019,"text":"這個我們有在研議啦因為我們也在看國外有幾個新的到底哪一個是適合台灣未來的發展的確是 我覺得你說的沒錯 要細分類因為現在像餐廳其實它有不一樣的餐廳的形態 事業的形態也要做好一個分類沒關係啦 你一陣子可以有一個粗暴的兵局報告 可行性的兵局委員 因為現在這位很忙他我上禮拜接到電話一直忙到現在三個位好不好沒關係 OK 半天也沒關係 因為"},{"start":470.342,"end":492.084,"text":"剛才博長你說你們都一直在研究一直在研究 顯然沒有啦要落實 因為這是一個企業專行 用地升級專行 很好的契機啦 我進行經濟委員會我就講 日本已經有成功的這個契機 如果要授權我都願意直接授權進來"},{"start":493.826,"end":504.639,"text":"這個部分就是看他的那個啦人家已經做三十年了 沒中這三十年來 也很多學者有拿出建議嘛現在是關心在你 要跟不要而已好不好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1039,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（12時3分）主席，我請兩位部長。"],["主席：好，請兩位部長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：部長好。這次廚餘養豬是很嚴肅的問題，你們不要再互推責任，防疫本來就是中央的職權，你看蘇貞昌院長當時是什麼態度，對不對？他自己到第一線防止破口，今天問題發生，中央地方如果沒有一條心，就會全面擴大，臺灣養豬產業恐怕會慘不忍睹。我今天要探討養豬的問題，因為廚餘最後沒辦法去化，所以環境部有補助地方用廚餘來做堆肥，有沒有落實？你不要被地方的數字騙，有的地方說：你看，我們這裡已經做得多好，臺中都把廚餘亂倒。這是事實嗎？廚餘的去化，我請教兩位部長，日本怎麼做？30年前，日本就已經把廚餘化為飼料，他們的廚餘不是只有加熱而已，他們把廚餘煮沸以後再拿去養豬，是45年前的事情，一直到35年前，他們發覺這樣做，包括口蹄疫、非洲豬瘟都有可能會感染，所以他們已經不再容許豬農把廚餘煮沸之後來養豬了，但是豬農沒有那個能力，他們產業的升級也沒有那個能力來將廚餘來做工業化的處理，農業部為什麼沒有跟環境部去思考？廚餘本身是要分級的，你知道嗎？廚餘養豬是要分級的，你知道嗎？怎麼分？部長，怎麼分？"],["陳部長駿季：我向委員報告，現在廚餘用來養豬，除了一般的廚餘，還是要跟一般植物性的料源混合，你說到日本，日本的廚餘不是跟我們臺灣的廚餘一樣，它有分一些植物性的和動物性的，他們一開始就分開了。"],["謝委員龍介：我告訴你，第一，廚餘收回來的時候，他們會針對廚餘的濕或乾，針對來源，像餐廳或特殊的麵包店，譬如現在臺灣的生態是餐廳很多，市場的跟烘焙業的，有種種不同的來源，然後這些廚餘不是濕濕的煮一煮就給豬吃，要再添加營養，就是以工業化的設備大規模飼養，譬如說，對於有養豬的各縣市，你們想辦法補助一下，然後讓我們養豬產業可以升級，不但把廚餘收進來以後要高溫消毒，還要再添加營養劑，甚至添加蛋白質，之後再烘乾，做成肥料，這些肥料賣給豬農，雖然會比用廚餘養豬成本高一點，但是比讓豬吃全飼料成本低，部長，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：對，現在有一個機器，我們也有去瞭解，大概6,500，一天可以做25噸。但是照委員說的，前面廚餘要分類，不是……"],["謝委員龍介：分類是這樣，就是說，你要把廚餘去化，之後要做堆肥，跟養豬是不一樣的，彭部長，你這裡要用心。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["謝委員龍介：目前我看到你還沒有具體的辦法。"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，這個蒸煮的部分，給豬吃飼料的部分還是農業部處理，那我們是當然是希望未來……"],["謝委員龍介：廚餘的搜集是你們的業務。"],["彭部長啓明：是，是。"],["謝委員龍介：從源頭去處理廚餘的時候，就應該要做初級分類，後面農業部的成本才可以降低，成本降低之後，做出來的品質才會提升，才能讓整個養豬產業的豬農接受這種飼料，我說的意思是這樣，部長，你覺得怎麼樣？你們有研議這個做法嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對。感謝委員的建議，你剛剛說的，我們之前已經有在研究，有在做。"],["謝委員龍介：你們研究幾年了，你知道嗎？日本已經做三十幾年，我們只是討論廚餘要不要用來養豬就談二十幾年，我告訴你說，要降低成本，控制他們的成本，當然對豬農來說，成本越低越好，但是安全是無價的，所以如果是這套的辦法，你們兩部可以共同輔導地方政府，真真正正用高溫殺菌、工業化烘乾之後，成為養豬的新飼料，當然經過添加劑的過程和製造的過程有增加成本，所以政府要補助到什麼程度，是要輔導業者來從事，或者是地方政府統一管理之後，統一販售這種養豬的新飼料，你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我基本上贊成委員說的，就是說，我們長久以來要把我們的廚餘用工業的手段變成飼料，這個飼料，第一點就是要有業者願意做，業者要願意做，就是豬農本身要可以用，所以這個部分我們已經把它變成一個我們在討論的方案之一，因為廚餘再利用的部分，特別是給豬吃的時候，如果蒸煮，不可能……"],["謝委員龍介：今天我討論這個方案，就是已經沒有蒸煮的問題了，不是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對。但一定要等這部分成功以後，蒸煮才可以退場，這個是有它的一些過渡期……"],["謝委員龍介：我知道。我現在沒有在討論蒸煮，我是說新的方向、新的做法，環境部和農業部可以合作，與地方配合，彭部長，我說的意思可能你比較清楚。"],["彭部長啓明：我知道。這個我們有在研議，因為我們也在看國外有幾個新的，到底哪一個是適合臺灣未來的發展，的確是委員你說的沒錯，要細分類，像餐廳，其實有不一樣事業的型態，也要做好一個……"],["謝委員龍介：沒關係。你們什麼時候可以有一個初步的可行性評估報告？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，因為我們這個月很忙，我上個禮拜接到電話，一直忙到現在。"],["謝委員龍介：1個月……"],["彭部長啓明：3個月好不好？"],["謝委員龍介：沒關係，OK，半年也沒關係，剛才部長你說你們都一直在研究，顯然沒有，要落實，因為這是一個企業轉型、養豬升級轉型很好的契機，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我之前在經濟委員會會議就說，日本已經有成功的機器，如果要授權，我願意直接開放授權，讓他們進來，這個部分就是看他們……"],["謝委員龍介：人家已經做30年了，部長，這30年來也有很多學者提出建議，現在是你決心要不要做而已，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["謝委員龍介：好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員龍介：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好。謝謝我們謝委員，這麼恭敬地敬禮。","接下來請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","陳瑩","陳素月","謝龍介","王鴻薇","徐富癸","王正旭","涂權吉","楊曜","吳沛憶","牛煦庭","盧縣一","何欣純","范雲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴\n散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查( 一) 行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四\n十九條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員魯明哲等16 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等\n19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉\n玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十\n二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員劉建國等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第\n六條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十五) 委員沈發惠等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏\n等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人\n擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員林淑芬等21人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分\n條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)\n委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修\n正草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149002_00001"}}}