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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 758.464, \"end\": 758.706, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 758.706, \"end\": 758.847, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 758.847, \"end\": 759.189, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 759.189, \"end\": 759.289, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 759.289, \"end\": 759.309, \"score\": 0.023}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,772 --> 00:00:17,755\n謝謝主席我們請警政署張署長移民署林署長房檢署杜署長官務署彭署長請以上列席\n\n2\n00:00:31,752 --> 00:00:52,660\n好各位署長好我想其實這一次非洲豬瘟的問題其實都可以看到其實最大的問題可能就是在邊境執法的這個漏洞那當然我想在幾年前其實我們就已經宣布禁止從國外的網購出肉或肉品寄送入境對不對這是屬於哪一位這邊負責的\n\n3\n00:00:57,569 --> 00:01:24,552\n報告委員這個豬肉跟含豬肉的製品都是禁止輸入的是幾年前宣布的這個政策是農業部那邊訂定海關是執行的好那為什麼最近有民進黨的立委說是時候禁止淘寶等中國電商寄送肉製品到台灣有這個可能性嗎這已經執行非常多年了所以說其實早就禁止了嗎根本沒有這個問題\n\n4\n00:01:25,598 --> 00:01:35,769\n事實上本席也有去到淘寶的網站點進去要買中國的豬肉事實上他是完全沒辦法買的他就告訴你中國是禁止輸入肉製品的\n\n5\n00:01:40,270 --> 00:01:55,535\n所以我不知道說這個這個民進黨立委他是有特殊的管道知道政府並沒有要嚴加的這個查緝網購的食品還是說本來就有很多的違規的部分在初檢的階段就已經被錯放了請問一下署長有這個可能嗎報告委員因為從我們的查獲的統計數字來看大概去年有1100多件那今年直到現在有850件這是海關查獲的一個部分在邊境把手上查獲\n\n6\n00:02:10,117 --> 00:02:27,071\n所以大部分都是來自旅客啦旅客大概有占六成那郵包的部分大概會占三成左右所以其實關務署是很嚴格的在執行這樣子的一個事實上我們常出國搭機的時候都感受到其實關務署這邊是很非常的嚴格在執行\n\n7\n00:02:27,751 --> 00:02:57,165\n那所以說我想這個民進黨的立委不該造謠的就不要亂造謠不要老是用這樣子一個方式去讓大家覺得讓民眾恐慌或者是說這個什麼拼多多淘寶都是這個豬瘟的最大破口其實現在大家擔心的就是說因為從境外移入的時候就他們旅客剛剛講六成是旅客帶進來的那在這個查紀的過程中請問一下這個我們經由這個X光機的這個查驗有辦法真的百分之百的查驗到嗎\n\n8\n00:02:58,305 --> 00:03:06,316\n報告委員我們看X光機的話是利用它的顏色密度以及形狀那這六七年來我們都有建立資料庫那我們對同仁X光的這個判讀都有做訓練也有分級我們有分初級中級高級\n\n9\n00:03:14,815 --> 00:03:35,568\n那受過這些認證的都有400所以原則上在你們在做這樣的查驗其實是可以達到最高的一個效果是嗎我們也有經驗好那請問一下杜署長就是還有彭署長就是說我們邊境防疫的第一線人員像防檢犬導犬員跟X光查驗員的人力跟防疫犬有沒有缺口\n\n10\n00:03:37,938 --> 00:04:00,194\n其實如果說能夠再調高的話增加的話其實是有幫助的是有幫助的但以目前來講的話我們每年的查驗從海關這邊送過來的調查成案的部分那大概從12年到14年採取的這個案件所以這個部分目前聽起來是有缺口的嘛那要怎麼補強呢\n\n11\n00:04:02,638 --> 00:04:27,157\n我們在這個保全的部分那這個的部分其實也是落實在做啦那現在就是關務署的部分我們也希望說能夠在旅客的這個查驗的那個部分那可以再提高他的這個檢驗的一個次數所以關務署署長剛剛那個防檢所說要提高查驗次數你覺得這個是主因嗎\n\n12\n00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:43,782\n我們現在因為要加強查核的一個力度那我們有要求我們這個同仁人工查驗的部分要提高一定的比例目前都雖然都經過百分之百的X光但是就人工查驗的部分我們要求我們已經都達到人力的一個極限了\n\n13\n00:04:48,121 --> 00:05:06,924\n極限就表示人力不足嘛所以這個部分你們有跟這個行政院提出比如說行政部啊每年我們都會檢討我們的人力啊跟財政部是不是需要跟行政院這邊來要求我們也都會跟人總那邊都有要求那就是請行政院要針對這個部分要好好的來去審視我們的基層人力不足的問題喔\n\n14\n00:05:07,805 --> 00:05:35,587\n那當然我也要請教一下警政署長就是針對肉品偽報跟非法攜帶我們剛剛也看到說有一些是在夜市我們可以看到有一些可能是非法攜帶在販售的那請問針對這個部分我們警政署跟關務署跟海巡署是不是有情資共用的平台那針對這樣子的一個案件不管是這個跨境電商或快遞案件建立即時追蹤系統那你們這三年有沒有這個查獲違規肉品的件數跟趨勢是不是有下降\n\n15\n00:05:36,987 --> 00:06:00,014\n我們這個警視署的部分就是配合灌入署還有這個主管機關對於這個邊境的查驗那這5年來大概查了1593件這個豬肉大概2000公斤左右這個就是配合那請問有沒有這個你們有沒有一個情資公用平台可以互相來要不然的話大家都在做一樣的事情那可能我們的工作是跟海關在一起的一起看的\n\n16\n00:06:01,654 --> 00:06:14,966\n那我指的是比如說像夜市喔夜市的這個部分當然就是配合聯合機場小組一起去配合因為我們要辨別這個部分就是由主管機關來做來做一個有聯合小組來做這件事情那再請教一下這個杜署長喔就是說這一次喔這個在107年面對這個這個中國大陸的這個非洲豬瘟的疫情的時候當時\n\n17\n00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:46,896\n雲林縣張縣長是全面禁止廚餘養豬那時任行政院的我們現在賴清德總統院長他說因為大多數的這個縣市長都反對所以他沒有禁用廚餘養豬可是我現在看起來的話如果七年前就可以禁用廚餘養豬的話現在其實就沒有這個問題因為我剛剛聽了其實不管各位署長的講法其實邊境管理\n\n18\n00:06:53,263 --> 00:07:19,941\n事實上大家都盡了最大的努力重點是儲餘養豬因為你只要不用儲養豬就不會有這個問題了那當時賴總統說不用儲養豬是因為大部分的縣市都反對那請問一下現在一般性補助款大部分的縣市也都反對希望趕快補給他們可是賴總統也沒說因為大部分的縣都反對所以趕快一般性補助款要還給地方所以針對這個部分一農業部的專業來說覺得該不該禁用儲養豬\n\n19\n00:07:23,802 --> 00:07:28,746\n我覺得每個時代有他的時空背景不過以現在來講以現在上來講那這個廚餘的禁止與否其實是地方政府的權責所以現在政府是可以禁止的其實如果中央嚴格要求的話以全國一致性事實上金融廚養豬才是這一次我可以解決\n\n20\n00:07:42,978 --> 00:07:58,777\n非洲豬瘟最大的一個方向才對目前已經我們在跨部會的協調中那重點是還是地方以現在來講譬如雲林也好花蓮也好還有高雄市都是全面禁止廚藝的縣市所以如果說地方政府的話\n\n21\n00:07:59,318 --> 00:08:15,603\n依照自治的一個精神是可以禁止全面的這個其實如果中央要求的話你說地方禁止當然地方有事實上我跟你講要禁用廚餘養豬是非常的困難需要花很多的時間但雲林做得到相信全國都做得到所以對所以我覺得這個可以讓其他縣市來分享絕對做得到但要中央一致的一個法令\n\n22\n00:08:23,722 --> 00:08:39,120\n這樣的地方才不會無所事從那這個部分請這個我們署長要帶回去那那是不是各位請回喔那不好意思主席再給我一分鐘因為剛剛我有讓所有的署長大家有充分的去回答我要請管主委海務委會管主委跟海巡署張署長\n\n23\n00:08:45,296 --> 00:09:00,122\n主委好主委好主委我想請教一下因為最近在10月23號我們又在馬祖的北竿的沙灘發現有死亡的病豬那當然我們在這邊海漂的豬其實常常都發現那剛剛我也聽主委講說\n\n24\n00:09:01,062 --> 00:09:21,437\n基本上你們都把它當視為是非洲豬瘟的陽性而去做提早的處理那但是現在這一件喔它是通經由通報海巡署才知道所以說表示是不是我們的這偵查系統跟人力配置都不足所以常常都是由地方通報那我們海巡署才知道而去做處理\n\n25\n00:09:22,618 --> 00:09:50,049\n跟委員報告基本上官民聯防是整個海防當中的一部分我們巡邏的時候我們會發現如果民眾看到民眾也都會知道通報目前以通報的跟我們主動發現的比例大概是多少我來統計一下數字我們會後統計給委員好不好我現在主要要跟主委提醒的就是\n\n26\n00:09:50,689 --> 00:10:10,456\n因為我們現在看起來我們的人力確實有所不足所以在這個整個的這個偵查的系統會有這樣子的一個漏洞那也因為這樣子的漏洞有可能造成一個破口所以今天在本席在這邊特別要跟主委提醒的就是說針對這個人力的不足事實上是應該要跟巡政院這邊來去要求我們人力不足應該要補足\n\n27\n00:10:13,997 --> 00:10:32,267\n包括說我們有固定的SOP把這個檢體跟移送的過程應該都有固定的這個部分百分之百這個部分真的是百分之百的滴水不漏我們從出去的時候穿防護衣一到的時候馬上會控制現場因為環境的傾銷很重要我們會把那個防護線拉起來\n\n28\n00:10:36,189 --> 00:10:47,152\n那控制現場以後我們立刻就請這個防檢局到現場所以一定都通知地方政府那檢體呢檢體怎麼移送檢體就照防檢的程序會帶回去就做檢體那每一個案呢我們一定是初報、續報到結報一定追蹤到檢體到底是陰性還是陽性最後請一下張署長請教一下張署長就是署內目前就執勤的鑑體\n\n29\n00:11:03,857 --> 00:11:09,179\n岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的一個勤務就是執勤的艦艇還有岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的勤務跟委員報告所有艦艇的監控系統跟偵測系統是夠的但是檢疫的部分不是我們海巡組來負責那請看一下這篇報導就是審計部跟基層你們的這個\n\n30\n00:11:32,591 --> 00:11:40,344\n艦艇的人員都有提到其實現在海巡艦艇是人力不足的那所以說這個部分到底是什麼樣的原因\n\n31\n00:11:41,585 --> 00:11:55,893\n下請沒有辦法上達還是你們不了解事實上整體艦艇的人員是運用人數是不夠的跟委員報告我們艦艇的那個人員來是夠的那主要的那就是你們的調度有問題有一個空窗期是因為招生跟特考進來進入的時間他大概有三到六個月的空窗期因為他們進來以後要再受訓然後再到艦艇上去服務我想請主委跟署長要正視這個問題因為不管是審計部不管是基層的這個我們的同仁\n\n32\n00:12:09,881 --> 00:12:17,227\n都有發出這樣的警訊所以針對這樣子的一個人力的不足跟人力的調配請要好好的檢討相關的問題那也希望說會後也給我相關的資料那當然我想最後要跟各位報告就是說其實這一次的疫情啊如果不幸擴大的話可能會癱瘓的是我們2000萬產值的養豬產業所以說非同小可也是希望大家在每一個關節裡面大家都能夠一起共同來防疫讓我們台灣可以繼續更好\n\n33\n00:12:38,464 --> 00:12:39,309\n在這邊也感謝各位謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8772\t17755\t謝謝主席我們請警政署張署長移民署林署長房檢署杜署長官務署彭署長請以上列席\n31752\t52660\t好各位署長好我想其實這一次非洲豬瘟的問題其實都可以看到其實最大的問題可能就是在邊境執法的這個漏洞那當然我想在幾年前其實我們就已經宣布禁止從國外的網購出肉或肉品寄送入境對不對這是屬於哪一位這邊負責的\n57569\t84552\t報告委員這個豬肉跟含豬肉的製品都是禁止輸入的是幾年前宣布的這個政策是農業部那邊訂定海關是執行的好那為什麼最近有民進黨的立委說是時候禁止淘寶等中國電商寄送肉製品到台灣有這個可能性嗎這已經執行非常多年了所以說其實早就禁止了嗎根本沒有這個問題\n85598\t95769\t事實上本席也有去到淘寶的網站點進去要買中國的豬肉事實上他是完全沒辦法買的他就告訴你中國是禁止輸入肉製品的\n100270\t115535\t所以我不知道說這個這個民進黨立委他是有特殊的管道知道政府並沒有要嚴加的這個查緝網購的食品還是說本來就有很多的違規的部分在初檢的階段就已經被錯放了請問一下署長有這個可能嗎報告委員因為從我們的查獲的統計數字來看大概去年有1100多件那今年直到現在有850件這是海關查獲的一個部分在邊境把手上查獲\n130117\t147071\t所以大部分都是來自旅客啦旅客大概有占六成那郵包的部分大概會占三成左右所以其實關務署是很嚴格的在執行這樣子的一個事實上我們常出國搭機的時候都感受到其實關務署這邊是很非常的嚴格在執行\n147751\t177165\t那所以說我想這個民進黨的立委不該造謠的就不要亂造謠不要老是用這樣子一個方式去讓大家覺得讓民眾恐慌或者是說這個什麼拼多多淘寶都是這個豬瘟的最大破口其實現在大家擔心的就是說因為從境外移入的時候就他們旅客剛剛講六成是旅客帶進來的那在這個查紀的過程中請問一下這個我們經由這個X光機的這個查驗有辦法真的百分之百的查驗到嗎\n178305\t186316\t報告委員我們看X光機的話是利用它的顏色密度以及形狀那這六七年來我們都有建立資料庫那我們對同仁X光的這個判讀都有做訓練也有分級我們有分初級中級高級\n194815\t215568\t那受過這些認證的都有400所以原則上在你們在做這樣的查驗其實是可以達到最高的一個效果是嗎我們也有經驗好 那請問一下杜署長就是還有彭署長就是說我們邊境防疫的第一線人員像防檢犬導犬員跟X光查驗員的人力跟防疫犬有沒有缺口\n217938\t240194\t其實如果說能夠再調高的話 增加的話其實是有幫助的 是有幫助的但以目前來講的話我們每年的查驗從海關這邊送過來的調查成案的部分那大概從12年到14年採取的這個案件所以這個部分目前聽起來是有缺口的嘛那要怎麼補強呢\n242638\t267157\t我們在這個保全的部分那這個的部分其實也是落實在做啦那現在就是關務署的部分我們也希望說能夠在旅客的這個查驗的那個部分那可以再提高他的這個檢驗的一個次數所以關務署署長剛剛那個防檢所說要提高查驗次數你覺得這個是主因嗎\n269190\t283782\t我們現在因為要加強查核的一個力度那我們有要求我們這個同仁人工查驗的部分要提高一定的比例目前都雖然都經過百分之百的X光但是就人工查驗的部分我們要求我們已經都達到人力的一個極限了\n288121\t306924\t極限就表示人力不足嘛所以這個部分你們有跟這個行政院提出比如說行政部啊每年我們都會檢討我們的人力啊跟財政部是不是需要跟行政院這邊來要求我們也都會跟人總那邊都有要求那就是請行政院要針對這個部分要好好的來去審視我們的基層人力不足的問題喔\n307805\t335587\t那當然我也要請教一下警政署長就是針對肉品偽報跟非法攜帶我們剛剛也看到說有一些是在夜市我們可以看到有一些可能是非法攜帶在販售的那請問針對這個部分我們警政署跟關務署跟海巡署是不是有情資共用的平台那針對這樣子的一個案件不管是這個跨境電商或快遞案件建立即時追蹤系統那你們這三年有沒有這個查獲違規肉品的件數跟趨勢是不是有下降\n336987\t360014\t我們這個警視署的部分就是配合灌入署還有這個主管機關對於這個邊境的查驗那這5年來大概查了1593件這個豬肉大概2000公斤左右這個就是配合那請問有沒有這個你們有沒有一個情資公用平台可以互相來要不然的話大家都在做一樣的事情那可能我們的工作是跟海關在一起的一起看的\n361654\t374966\t那我指的是比如說像夜市喔 夜市的這個部分當然就是配合聯合機場小組一起去配合因為我們要辨別這個部分就是由主管機關來做來做一個 有聯合小組來做這件事情那再請教一下這個杜署長喔 就是說這一次喔這個在107年面對這個這個中國大陸的這個非洲豬瘟的疫情的時候 當時\n388479\t406896\t雲林縣張縣長是全面禁止廚餘養豬那時任行政院的我們現在賴清德總統院長他說因為大多數的這個縣市長都反對所以他沒有禁用廚餘養豬可是我現在看起來的話如果七年前就可以禁用廚餘養豬的話現在其實就沒有這個問題因為我剛剛聽了其實不管各位署長的講法其實邊境管理\n413263\t439941\t事實上大家都盡了最大的努力重點是儲餘養豬因為你只要不用儲養豬就不會有這個問題了那當時賴總統說不用儲養豬是因為大部分的縣市都反對那請問一下現在一般性補助款大部分的縣市也都反對希望趕快補給他們可是賴總統也沒說因為大部分的縣都反對所以趕快一般性補助款要還給地方所以針對這個部分一農業部的專業來說覺得該不該禁用儲養豬\n443802\t448746\t我覺得每個時代有他的時空背景不過以現在來講以現在上來講那這個廚餘的禁止與否其實是地方政府的權責所以現在政府是可以禁止的其實如果中央嚴格要求的話以全國一致性事實上金融廚養豬才是這一次我可以解決\n462978\t478777\t非洲豬瘟最大的一個方向才對目前已經我們在跨部會的協調中那重點是還是地方以現在來講譬如雲林也好花蓮也好還有高雄市都是全面禁止廚藝的縣市所以如果說地方政府的話\n479318\t495603\t依照自治的一個精神是可以禁止全面的這個其實如果中央要求的話你說地方禁止當然地方有事實上我跟你講要禁用廚餘養豬是非常的困難需要花很多的時間但雲林做得到相信全國都做得到所以對所以我覺得這個可以讓其他縣市來分享絕對做得到但要中央一致的一個法令\n503722\t519120\t這樣的地方才不會無所事從那這個部分請這個我們署長要帶回去那那是不是各位請回喔那不好意思主席再給我一分鐘因為剛剛我有讓所有的署長大家有充分的去回答我要請管主委海務委會管主委跟海巡署張署長\n525296\t540122\t主委好主委好主委我想請教一下因為最近在10月23號我們又在馬祖的北竿的沙灘發現有死亡的病豬那當然我們在這邊海漂的豬其實常常都發現那剛剛我也聽主委講說\n541062\t561437\t基本上你們都把它當視為是非洲豬瘟的陽性而去做提早的處理那但是現在這一件喔它是通經由通報海巡署才知道所以說表示是不是我們的這偵查系統跟人力配置都不足所以常常都是由地方通報那我們海巡署才知道而去做處理\n562618\t590049\t跟委員報告基本上官民聯防是整個海防當中的一部分我們巡邏的時候我們會發現如果民眾看到民眾也都會知道通報目前以通報的跟我們主動發現的比例大概是多少我來統計一下數字我們會後統計給委員好不好我現在主要要跟主委提醒的就是\n590689\t610456\t因為我們現在看起來我們的人力確實有所不足所以在這個整個的這個偵查的系統會有這樣子的一個漏洞那也因為這樣子的漏洞有可能造成一個破口所以今天在本席在這邊特別要跟主委提醒的就是說針對這個人力的不足事實上是應該要跟巡政院這邊來去要求我們人力不足應該要補足\n613997\t632267\t包括說我們有固定的SOP把這個檢體跟移送的過程應該都有固定的這個部分百分之百這個部分真的是百分之百的滴水不漏我們從出去的時候穿防護衣一到的時候馬上會控制現場因為環境的傾銷很重要我們會把那個防護線拉起來\n636189\t647152\t那控制現場以後我們立刻就請這個防檢局到現場所以一定都通知地方政府那檢體呢檢體怎麼移送檢體就照防檢的程序會帶回去就做檢體那每一個案呢我們一定是初報、續報到結報一定追蹤到檢體到底是陰性還是陽性最後請一下張署長請教一下張署長就是署內目前就執勤的鑑體\n663857\t669179\t岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的一個勤務就是執勤的艦艇還有岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的勤務跟委員報告所有艦艇的監控系統跟偵測系統是夠的但是檢疫的部分不是我們海巡組來負責那請看一下這篇報導就是審計部跟基層你們的這個\n692591\t700344\t艦艇的人員都有提到其實現在海巡艦艇是人力不足的那所以說這個部分到底是什麼樣的原因\n701585\t715893\t下請沒有辦法上達還是你們不了解事實上整體艦艇的人員是運用人數是不夠的跟委員報告我們艦艇的那個人員來是夠的那主要的那就是你們的調度有問題有一個空窗期是因為招生跟特考進來進入的時間他大概有三到六個月的空窗期因為他們進來以後要再受訓然後再到艦艇上去服務我想請主委跟署長要正視這個問題因為不管是審計部不管是基層的這個我們的同仁\n729881\t737227\t都有發出這樣的警訊所以針對這樣子的一個人力的不足跟人力的調配請要好好的檢討相關的問題那也希望說會後也給我相關的資料那當然我想最後要跟各位報告就是說其實這一次的疫情啊如果不幸擴大的話可能會癱瘓的是我們2000萬產值的養豬產業所以說非同小可也是希望大家在每一個關節裡面大家都能夠一起共同來防疫讓我們台灣可以繼續更好\n758464\t759309\t在這邊也感謝各位謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請警政署張署長移民署林署長房檢署杜署長官務署彭署長請以上列席\n好各位署長好我想其實這一次非洲豬瘟的問題其實都可以看到其實最大的問題可能就是在邊境執法的這個漏洞那當然我想在幾年前其實我們就已經宣布禁止從國外的網購出肉或肉品寄送入境對不對這是屬於哪一位這邊負責的\n報告委員這個豬肉跟含豬肉的製品都是禁止輸入的是幾年前宣布的這個政策是農業部那邊訂定海關是執行的好那為什麼最近有民進黨的立委說是時候禁止淘寶等中國電商寄送肉製品到台灣有這個可能性嗎這已經執行非常多年了所以說其實早就禁止了嗎根本沒有這個問題\n事實上本席也有去到淘寶的網站點進去要買中國的豬肉事實上他是完全沒辦法買的他就告訴你中國是禁止輸入肉製品的\n所以我不知道說這個這個民進黨立委他是有特殊的管道知道政府並沒有要嚴加的這個查緝網購的食品還是說本來就有很多的違規的部分在初檢的階段就已經被錯放了請問一下署長有這個可能嗎報告委員因為從我們的查獲的統計數字來看大概去年有1100多件那今年直到現在有850件這是海關查獲的一個部分在邊境把手上查獲\n所以大部分都是來自旅客啦旅客大概有占六成那郵包的部分大概會占三成左右所以其實關務署是很嚴格的在執行這樣子的一個事實上我們常出國搭機的時候都感受到其實關務署這邊是很非常的嚴格在執行\n那所以說我想這個民進黨的立委不該造謠的就不要亂造謠不要老是用這樣子一個方式去讓大家覺得讓民眾恐慌或者是說這個什麼拼多多淘寶都是這個豬瘟的最大破口其實現在大家擔心的就是說因為從境外移入的時候就他們旅客剛剛講六成是旅客帶進來的那在這個查紀的過程中請問一下這個我們經由這個X光機的這個查驗有辦法真的百分之百的查驗到嗎\n報告委員我們看X光機的話是利用它的顏色密度以及形狀那這六七年來我們都有建立資料庫那我們對同仁X光的這個判讀都有做訓練也有分級我們有分初級中級高級\n那受過這些認證的都有400所以原則上在你們在做這樣的查驗其實是可以達到最高的一個效果是嗎我們也有經驗好 那請問一下杜署長就是還有彭署長就是說我們邊境防疫的第一線人員像防檢犬導犬員跟X光查驗員的人力跟防疫犬有沒有缺口\n其實如果說能夠再調高的話 增加的話其實是有幫助的 是有幫助的但以目前來講的話我們每年的查驗從海關這邊送過來的調查成案的部分那大概從12年到14年採取的這個案件所以這個部分目前聽起來是有缺口的嘛那要怎麼補強呢\n我們在這個保全的部分那這個的部分其實也是落實在做啦那現在就是關務署的部分我們也希望說能夠在旅客的這個查驗的那個部分那可以再提高他的這個檢驗的一個次數所以關務署署長剛剛那個防檢所說要提高查驗次數你覺得這個是主因嗎\n我們現在因為要加強查核的一個力度那我們有要求我們這個同仁人工查驗的部分要提高一定的比例目前都雖然都經過百分之百的X光但是就人工查驗的部分我們要求我們已經都達到人力的一個極限了\n極限就表示人力不足嘛所以這個部分你們有跟這個行政院提出比如說行政部啊每年我們都會檢討我們的人力啊跟財政部是不是需要跟行政院這邊來要求我們也都會跟人總那邊都有要求那就是請行政院要針對這個部分要好好的來去審視我們的基層人力不足的問題喔\n那當然我也要請教一下警政署長就是針對肉品偽報跟非法攜帶我們剛剛也看到說有一些是在夜市我們可以看到有一些可能是非法攜帶在販售的那請問針對這個部分我們警政署跟關務署跟海巡署是不是有情資共用的平台那針對這樣子的一個案件不管是這個跨境電商或快遞案件建立即時追蹤系統那你們這三年有沒有這個查獲違規肉品的件數跟趨勢是不是有下降\n我們這個警視署的部分就是配合灌入署還有這個主管機關對於這個邊境的查驗那這5年來大概查了1593件這個豬肉大概2000公斤左右這個就是配合那請問有沒有這個你們有沒有一個情資公用平台可以互相來要不然的話大家都在做一樣的事情那可能我們的工作是跟海關在一起的一起看的\n那我指的是比如說像夜市喔 夜市的這個部分當然就是配合聯合機場小組一起去配合因為我們要辨別這個部分就是由主管機關來做來做一個 有聯合小組來做這件事情那再請教一下這個杜署長喔 就是說這一次喔這個在107年面對這個這個中國大陸的這個非洲豬瘟的疫情的時候 當時\n雲林縣張縣長是全面禁止廚餘養豬那時任行政院的我們現在賴清德總統院長他說因為大多數的這個縣市長都反對所以他沒有禁用廚餘養豬可是我現在看起來的話如果七年前就可以禁用廚餘養豬的話現在其實就沒有這個問題因為我剛剛聽了其實不管各位署長的講法其實邊境管理\n事實上大家都盡了最大的努力重點是儲餘養豬因為你只要不用儲養豬就不會有這個問題了那當時賴總統說不用儲養豬是因為大部分的縣市都反對那請問一下現在一般性補助款大部分的縣市也都反對希望趕快補給他們可是賴總統也沒說因為大部分的縣都反對所以趕快一般性補助款要還給地方所以針對這個部分一農業部的專業來說覺得該不該禁用儲養豬\n我覺得每個時代有他的時空背景不過以現在來講以現在上來講那這個廚餘的禁止與否其實是地方政府的權責所以現在政府是可以禁止的其實如果中央嚴格要求的話以全國一致性事實上金融廚養豬才是這一次我可以解決\n非洲豬瘟最大的一個方向才對目前已經我們在跨部會的協調中那重點是還是地方以現在來講譬如雲林也好花蓮也好還有高雄市都是全面禁止廚藝的縣市所以如果說地方政府的話\n依照自治的一個精神是可以禁止全面的這個其實如果中央要求的話你說地方禁止當然地方有事實上我跟你講要禁用廚餘養豬是非常的困難需要花很多的時間但雲林做得到相信全國都做得到所以對所以我覺得這個可以讓其他縣市來分享絕對做得到但要中央一致的一個法令\n這樣的地方才不會無所事從那這個部分請這個我們署長要帶回去那那是不是各位請回喔那不好意思主席再給我一分鐘因為剛剛我有讓所有的署長大家有充分的去回答我要請管主委海務委會管主委跟海巡署張署長\n主委好主委好主委我想請教一下因為最近在10月23號我們又在馬祖的北竿的沙灘發現有死亡的病豬那當然我們在這邊海漂的豬其實常常都發現那剛剛我也聽主委講說\n基本上你們都把它當視為是非洲豬瘟的陽性而去做提早的處理那但是現在這一件喔它是通經由通報海巡署才知道所以說表示是不是我們的這偵查系統跟人力配置都不足所以常常都是由地方通報那我們海巡署才知道而去做處理\n跟委員報告基本上官民聯防是整個海防當中的一部分我們巡邏的時候我們會發現如果民眾看到民眾也都會知道通報目前以通報的跟我們主動發現的比例大概是多少我來統計一下數字我們會後統計給委員好不好我現在主要要跟主委提醒的就是\n因為我們現在看起來我們的人力確實有所不足所以在這個整個的這個偵查的系統會有這樣子的一個漏洞那也因為這樣子的漏洞有可能造成一個破口所以今天在本席在這邊特別要跟主委提醒的就是說針對這個人力的不足事實上是應該要跟巡政院這邊來去要求我們人力不足應該要補足\n包括說我們有固定的SOP把這個檢體跟移送的過程應該都有固定的這個部分百分之百這個部分真的是百分之百的滴水不漏我們從出去的時候穿防護衣一到的時候馬上會控制現場因為環境的傾銷很重要我們會把那個防護線拉起來\n那控制現場以後我們立刻就請這個防檢局到現場所以一定都通知地方政府那檢體呢檢體怎麼移送檢體就照防檢的程序會帶回去就做檢體那每一個案呢我們一定是初報、續報到結報一定追蹤到檢體到底是陰性還是陽性最後請一下張署長請教一下張署長就是署內目前就執勤的鑑體\n岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的一個勤務就是執勤的艦艇還有岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的勤務跟委員報告所有艦艇的監控系統跟偵測系統是夠的但是檢疫的部分不是我們海巡組來負責那請看一下這篇報導就是審計部跟基層你們的這個\n艦艇的人員都有提到其實現在海巡艦艇是人力不足的那所以說這個部分到底是什麼樣的原因\n下請沒有辦法上達還是你們不了解事實上整體艦艇的人員是運用人數是不夠的跟委員報告我們艦艇的那個人員來是夠的那主要的那就是你們的調度有問題有一個空窗期是因為招生跟特考進來進入的時間他大概有三到六個月的空窗期因為他們進來以後要再受訓然後再到艦艇上去服務我想請主委跟署長要正視這個問題因為不管是審計部不管是基層的這個我們的同仁\n都有發出這樣的警訊所以針對這樣子的一個人力的不足跟人力的調配請要好好的檢討相關的問題那也希望說會後也給我相關的資料那當然我想最後要跟各位報告就是說其實這一次的疫情啊如果不幸擴大的話可能會癱瘓的是我們2000萬產值的養豬產業所以說非同小可也是希望大家在每一個關節裡面大家都能夠一起共同來防疫讓我們台灣可以繼續更好\n在這邊也感謝各位謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.772 --> 00:17.755\n謝謝主席我們請警政署張署長移民署林署長房檢署杜署長官務署彭署長請以上列席\n\n00:31.752 --> 00:52.660\n好各位署長好我想其實這一次非洲豬瘟的問題其實都可以看到其實最大的問題可能就是在邊境執法的這個漏洞那當然我想在幾年前其實我們就已經宣布禁止從國外的網購出肉或肉品寄送入境對不對這是屬於哪一位這邊負責的\n\n00:57.569 --> 01:24.552\n報告委員這個豬肉跟含豬肉的製品都是禁止輸入的是幾年前宣布的這個政策是農業部那邊訂定海關是執行的好那為什麼最近有民進黨的立委說是時候禁止淘寶等中國電商寄送肉製品到台灣有這個可能性嗎這已經執行非常多年了所以說其實早就禁止了嗎根本沒有這個問題\n\n01:25.598 --> 01:35.769\n事實上本席也有去到淘寶的網站點進去要買中國的豬肉事實上他是完全沒辦法買的他就告訴你中國是禁止輸入肉製品的\n\n01:40.270 --> 01:55.535\n所以我不知道說這個這個民進黨立委他是有特殊的管道知道政府並沒有要嚴加的這個查緝網購的食品還是說本來就有很多的違規的部分在初檢的階段就已經被錯放了請問一下署長有這個可能嗎報告委員因為從我們的查獲的統計數字來看大概去年有1100多件那今年直到現在有850件這是海關查獲的一個部分在邊境把手上查獲\n\n02:10.117 --> 02:27.071\n所以大部分都是來自旅客啦旅客大概有占六成那郵包的部分大概會占三成左右所以其實關務署是很嚴格的在執行這樣子的一個事實上我們常出國搭機的時候都感受到其實關務署這邊是很非常的嚴格在執行\n\n02:27.751 --> 02:57.165\n那所以說我想這個民進黨的立委不該造謠的就不要亂造謠不要老是用這樣子一個方式去讓大家覺得讓民眾恐慌或者是說這個什麼拼多多淘寶都是這個豬瘟的最大破口其實現在大家擔心的就是說因為從境外移入的時候就他們旅客剛剛講六成是旅客帶進來的那在這個查紀的過程中請問一下這個我們經由這個X光機的這個查驗有辦法真的百分之百的查驗到嗎\n\n02:58.305 --> 03:06.316\n報告委員我們看X光機的話是利用它的顏色密度以及形狀那這六七年來我們都有建立資料庫那我們對同仁X光的這個判讀都有做訓練也有分級我們有分初級中級高級\n\n03:14.815 --> 03:35.568\n那受過這些認證的都有400所以原則上在你們在做這樣的查驗其實是可以達到最高的一個效果是嗎我們也有經驗好那請問一下杜署長就是還有彭署長就是說我們邊境防疫的第一線人員像防檢犬導犬員跟X光查驗員的人力跟防疫犬有沒有缺口\n\n03:37.938 --> 04:00.194\n其實如果說能夠再調高的話增加的話其實是有幫助的是有幫助的但以目前來講的話我們每年的查驗從海關這邊送過來的調查成案的部分那大概從12年到14年採取的這個案件所以這個部分目前聽起來是有缺口的嘛那要怎麼補強呢\n\n04:02.638 --> 04:27.157\n我們在這個保全的部分那這個的部分其實也是落實在做啦那現在就是關務署的部分我們也希望說能夠在旅客的這個查驗的那個部分那可以再提高他的這個檢驗的一個次數所以關務署署長剛剛那個防檢所說要提高查驗次數你覺得這個是主因嗎\n\n04:29.190 --> 04:43.782\n我們現在因為要加強查核的一個力度那我們有要求我們這個同仁人工查驗的部分要提高一定的比例目前都雖然都經過百分之百的X光但是就人工查驗的部分我們要求我們已經都達到人力的一個極限了\n\n04:48.121 --> 05:06.924\n極限就表示人力不足嘛所以這個部分你們有跟這個行政院提出比如說行政部啊每年我們都會檢討我們的人力啊跟財政部是不是需要跟行政院這邊來要求我們也都會跟人總那邊都有要求那就是請行政院要針對這個部分要好好的來去審視我們的基層人力不足的問題喔\n\n05:07.805 --> 05:35.587\n那當然我也要請教一下警政署長就是針對肉品偽報跟非法攜帶我們剛剛也看到說有一些是在夜市我們可以看到有一些可能是非法攜帶在販售的那請問針對這個部分我們警政署跟關務署跟海巡署是不是有情資共用的平台那針對這樣子的一個案件不管是這個跨境電商或快遞案件建立即時追蹤系統那你們這三年有沒有這個查獲違規肉品的件數跟趨勢是不是有下降\n\n05:36.987 --> 06:00.014\n我們這個警視署的部分就是配合灌入署還有這個主管機關對於這個邊境的查驗那這5年來大概查了1593件這個豬肉大概2000公斤左右這個就是配合那請問有沒有這個你們有沒有一個情資公用平台可以互相來要不然的話大家都在做一樣的事情那可能我們的工作是跟海關在一起的一起看的\n\n06:01.654 --> 06:14.966\n那我指的是比如說像夜市喔夜市的這個部分當然就是配合聯合機場小組一起去配合因為我們要辨別這個部分就是由主管機關來做來做一個有聯合小組來做這件事情那再請教一下這個杜署長喔就是說這一次喔這個在107年面對這個這個中國大陸的這個非洲豬瘟的疫情的時候當時\n\n06:28.479 --> 06:46.896\n雲林縣張縣長是全面禁止廚餘養豬那時任行政院的我們現在賴清德總統院長他說因為大多數的這個縣市長都反對所以他沒有禁用廚餘養豬可是我現在看起來的話如果七年前就可以禁用廚餘養豬的話現在其實就沒有這個問題因為我剛剛聽了其實不管各位署長的講法其實邊境管理\n\n06:53.263 --> 07:19.941\n事實上大家都盡了最大的努力重點是儲餘養豬因為你只要不用儲養豬就不會有這個問題了那當時賴總統說不用儲養豬是因為大部分的縣市都反對那請問一下現在一般性補助款大部分的縣市也都反對希望趕快補給他們可是賴總統也沒說因為大部分的縣都反對所以趕快一般性補助款要還給地方所以針對這個部分一農業部的專業來說覺得該不該禁用儲養豬\n\n07:23.802 --> 07:28.746\n我覺得每個時代有他的時空背景不過以現在來講以現在上來講那這個廚餘的禁止與否其實是地方政府的權責所以現在政府是可以禁止的其實如果中央嚴格要求的話以全國一致性事實上金融廚養豬才是這一次我可以解決\n\n07:42.978 --> 07:58.777\n非洲豬瘟最大的一個方向才對目前已經我們在跨部會的協調中那重點是還是地方以現在來講譬如雲林也好花蓮也好還有高雄市都是全面禁止廚藝的縣市所以如果說地方政府的話\n\n07:59.318 --> 08:15.603\n依照自治的一個精神是可以禁止全面的這個其實如果中央要求的話你說地方禁止當然地方有事實上我跟你講要禁用廚餘養豬是非常的困難需要花很多的時間但雲林做得到相信全國都做得到所以對所以我覺得這個可以讓其他縣市來分享絕對做得到但要中央一致的一個法令\n\n08:23.722 --> 08:39.120\n這樣的地方才不會無所事從那這個部分請這個我們署長要帶回去那那是不是各位請回喔那不好意思主席再給我一分鐘因為剛剛我有讓所有的署長大家有充分的去回答我要請管主委海務委會管主委跟海巡署張署長\n\n08:45.296 --> 09:00.122\n主委好主委好主委我想請教一下因為最近在10月23號我們又在馬祖的北竿的沙灘發現有死亡的病豬那當然我們在這邊海漂的豬其實常常都發現那剛剛我也聽主委講說\n\n09:01.062 --> 09:21.437\n基本上你們都把它當視為是非洲豬瘟的陽性而去做提早的處理那但是現在這一件喔它是通經由通報海巡署才知道所以說表示是不是我們的這偵查系統跟人力配置都不足所以常常都是由地方通報那我們海巡署才知道而去做處理\n\n09:22.618 --> 09:50.049\n跟委員報告基本上官民聯防是整個海防當中的一部分我們巡邏的時候我們會發現如果民眾看到民眾也都會知道通報目前以通報的跟我們主動發現的比例大概是多少我來統計一下數字我們會後統計給委員好不好我現在主要要跟主委提醒的就是\n\n09:50.689 --> 10:10.456\n因為我們現在看起來我們的人力確實有所不足所以在這個整個的這個偵查的系統會有這樣子的一個漏洞那也因為這樣子的漏洞有可能造成一個破口所以今天在本席在這邊特別要跟主委提醒的就是說針對這個人力的不足事實上是應該要跟巡政院這邊來去要求我們人力不足應該要補足\n\n10:13.997 --> 10:32.267\n包括說我們有固定的SOP把這個檢體跟移送的過程應該都有固定的這個部分百分之百這個部分真的是百分之百的滴水不漏我們從出去的時候穿防護衣一到的時候馬上會控制現場因為環境的傾銷很重要我們會把那個防護線拉起來\n\n10:36.189 --> 10:47.152\n那控制現場以後我們立刻就請這個防檢局到現場所以一定都通知地方政府那檢體呢檢體怎麼移送檢體就照防檢的程序會帶回去就做檢體那每一個案呢我們一定是初報、續報到結報一定追蹤到檢體到底是陰性還是陽性最後請一下張署長請教一下張署長就是署內目前就執勤的鑑體\n\n11:03.857 --> 11:09.179\n岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的一個勤務就是執勤的艦艇還有岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的勤務跟委員報告所有艦艇的監控系統跟偵測系統是夠的但是檢疫的部分不是我們海巡組來負責那請看一下這篇報導就是審計部跟基層你們的這個\n\n11:32.591 --> 11:40.344\n艦艇的人員都有提到其實現在海巡艦艇是人力不足的那所以說這個部分到底是什麼樣的原因\n\n11:41.585 --> 11:55.893\n下請沒有辦法上達還是你們不了解事實上整體艦艇的人員是運用人數是不夠的跟委員報告我們艦艇的那個人員來是夠的那主要的那就是你們的調度有問題有一個空窗期是因為招生跟特考進來進入的時間他大概有三到六個月的空窗期因為他們進來以後要再受訓然後再到艦艇上去服務我想請主委跟署長要正視這個問題因為不管是審計部不管是基層的這個我們的同仁\n\n12:09.881 --> 12:17.227\n都有發出這樣的警訊所以針對這樣子的一個人力的不足跟人力的調配請要好好的檢討相關的問題那也希望說會後也給我相關的資料那當然我想最後要跟各位報告就是說其實這一次的疫情啊如果不幸擴大的話可能會癱瘓的是我們2000萬產值的養豬產業所以說非同小可也是希望大家在每一個關節裡面大家都能夠一起共同來防疫讓我們台灣可以繼續更好\n\n12:38.464 --> 12:39.309\n在這邊也感謝各位謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.772,"end":17.755,"text":"謝謝主席我們請警政署張署長移民署林署長房檢署杜署長官務署彭署長請以上列席"},{"start":31.752,"end":52.66,"text":"好各位署長好我想其實這一次非洲豬瘟的問題其實都可以看到其實最大的問題可能就是在邊境執法的這個漏洞那當然我想在幾年前其實我們就已經宣布禁止從國外的網購出肉或肉品寄送入境對不對這是屬於哪一位這邊負責的"},{"start":57.569,"end":84.552,"text":"報告委員這個豬肉跟含豬肉的製品都是禁止輸入的是幾年前宣布的這個政策是農業部那邊訂定海關是執行的好那為什麼最近有民進黨的立委說是時候禁止淘寶等中國電商寄送肉製品到台灣有這個可能性嗎這已經執行非常多年了所以說其實早就禁止了嗎根本沒有這個問題"},{"start":85.598,"end":95.769,"text":"事實上本席也有去到淘寶的網站點進去要買中國的豬肉事實上他是完全沒辦法買的他就告訴你中國是禁止輸入肉製品的"},{"start":100.27,"end":115.535,"text":"所以我不知道說這個這個民進黨立委他是有特殊的管道知道政府並沒有要嚴加的這個查緝網購的食品還是說本來就有很多的違規的部分在初檢的階段就已經被錯放了請問一下署長有這個可能嗎報告委員因為從我們的查獲的統計數字來看大概去年有1100多件那今年直到現在有850件這是海關查獲的一個部分在邊境把手上查獲"},{"start":130.117,"end":147.071,"text":"所以大部分都是來自旅客啦旅客大概有占六成那郵包的部分大概會占三成左右所以其實關務署是很嚴格的在執行這樣子的一個事實上我們常出國搭機的時候都感受到其實關務署這邊是很非常的嚴格在執行"},{"start":147.751,"end":177.165,"text":"那所以說我想這個民進黨的立委不該造謠的就不要亂造謠不要老是用這樣子一個方式去讓大家覺得讓民眾恐慌或者是說這個什麼拼多多淘寶都是這個豬瘟的最大破口其實現在大家擔心的就是說因為從境外移入的時候就他們旅客剛剛講六成是旅客帶進來的那在這個查紀的過程中請問一下這個我們經由這個X光機的這個查驗有辦法真的百分之百的查驗到嗎"},{"start":178.305,"end":186.316,"text":"報告委員我們看X光機的話是利用它的顏色密度以及形狀那這六七年來我們都有建立資料庫那我們對同仁X光的這個判讀都有做訓練也有分級我們有分初級中級高級"},{"start":194.815,"end":215.568,"text":"那受過這些認證的都有400所以原則上在你們在做這樣的查驗其實是可以達到最高的一個效果是嗎我們也有經驗好 那請問一下杜署長就是還有彭署長就是說我們邊境防疫的第一線人員像防檢犬導犬員跟X光查驗員的人力跟防疫犬有沒有缺口"},{"start":217.938,"end":240.194,"text":"其實如果說能夠再調高的話 增加的話其實是有幫助的 是有幫助的但以目前來講的話我們每年的查驗從海關這邊送過來的調查成案的部分那大概從12年到14年採取的這個案件所以這個部分目前聽起來是有缺口的嘛那要怎麼補強呢"},{"start":242.638,"end":267.157,"text":"我們在這個保全的部分那這個的部分其實也是落實在做啦那現在就是關務署的部分我們也希望說能夠在旅客的這個查驗的那個部分那可以再提高他的這個檢驗的一個次數所以關務署署長剛剛那個防檢所說要提高查驗次數你覺得這個是主因嗎"},{"start":269.19,"end":283.782,"text":"我們現在因為要加強查核的一個力度那我們有要求我們這個同仁人工查驗的部分要提高一定的比例目前都雖然都經過百分之百的X光但是就人工查驗的部分我們要求我們已經都達到人力的一個極限了"},{"start":288.121,"end":306.924,"text":"極限就表示人力不足嘛所以這個部分你們有跟這個行政院提出比如說行政部啊每年我們都會檢討我們的人力啊跟財政部是不是需要跟行政院這邊來要求我們也都會跟人總那邊都有要求那就是請行政院要針對這個部分要好好的來去審視我們的基層人力不足的問題喔"},{"start":307.805,"end":335.587,"text":"那當然我也要請教一下警政署長就是針對肉品偽報跟非法攜帶我們剛剛也看到說有一些是在夜市我們可以看到有一些可能是非法攜帶在販售的那請問針對這個部分我們警政署跟關務署跟海巡署是不是有情資共用的平台那針對這樣子的一個案件不管是這個跨境電商或快遞案件建立即時追蹤系統那你們這三年有沒有這個查獲違規肉品的件數跟趨勢是不是有下降"},{"start":336.987,"end":360.014,"text":"我們這個警視署的部分就是配合灌入署還有這個主管機關對於這個邊境的查驗那這5年來大概查了1593件這個豬肉大概2000公斤左右這個就是配合那請問有沒有這個你們有沒有一個情資公用平台可以互相來要不然的話大家都在做一樣的事情那可能我們的工作是跟海關在一起的一起看的"},{"start":361.654,"end":374.966,"text":"那我指的是比如說像夜市喔 夜市的這個部分當然就是配合聯合機場小組一起去配合因為我們要辨別這個部分就是由主管機關來做來做一個 有聯合小組來做這件事情那再請教一下這個杜署長喔 就是說這一次喔這個在107年面對這個這個中國大陸的這個非洲豬瘟的疫情的時候 當時"},{"start":388.479,"end":406.896,"text":"雲林縣張縣長是全面禁止廚餘養豬那時任行政院的我們現在賴清德總統院長他說因為大多數的這個縣市長都反對所以他沒有禁用廚餘養豬可是我現在看起來的話如果七年前就可以禁用廚餘養豬的話現在其實就沒有這個問題因為我剛剛聽了其實不管各位署長的講法其實邊境管理"},{"start":413.263,"end":439.941,"text":"事實上大家都盡了最大的努力重點是儲餘養豬因為你只要不用儲養豬就不會有這個問題了那當時賴總統說不用儲養豬是因為大部分的縣市都反對那請問一下現在一般性補助款大部分的縣市也都反對希望趕快補給他們可是賴總統也沒說因為大部分的縣都反對所以趕快一般性補助款要還給地方所以針對這個部分一農業部的專業來說覺得該不該禁用儲養豬"},{"start":443.802,"end":448.746,"text":"我覺得每個時代有他的時空背景不過以現在來講以現在上來講那這個廚餘的禁止與否其實是地方政府的權責所以現在政府是可以禁止的其實如果中央嚴格要求的話以全國一致性事實上金融廚養豬才是這一次我可以解決"},{"start":462.978,"end":478.777,"text":"非洲豬瘟最大的一個方向才對目前已經我們在跨部會的協調中那重點是還是地方以現在來講譬如雲林也好花蓮也好還有高雄市都是全面禁止廚藝的縣市所以如果說地方政府的話"},{"start":479.318,"end":495.603,"text":"依照自治的一個精神是可以禁止全面的這個其實如果中央要求的話你說地方禁止當然地方有事實上我跟你講要禁用廚餘養豬是非常的困難需要花很多的時間但雲林做得到相信全國都做得到所以對所以我覺得這個可以讓其他縣市來分享絕對做得到但要中央一致的一個法令"},{"start":503.722,"end":519.12,"text":"這樣的地方才不會無所事從那這個部分請這個我們署長要帶回去那那是不是各位請回喔那不好意思主席再給我一分鐘因為剛剛我有讓所有的署長大家有充分的去回答我要請管主委海務委會管主委跟海巡署張署長"},{"start":525.296,"end":540.122,"text":"主委好主委好主委我想請教一下因為最近在10月23號我們又在馬祖的北竿的沙灘發現有死亡的病豬那當然我們在這邊海漂的豬其實常常都發現那剛剛我也聽主委講說"},{"start":541.062,"end":561.437,"text":"基本上你們都把它當視為是非洲豬瘟的陽性而去做提早的處理那但是現在這一件喔它是通經由通報海巡署才知道所以說表示是不是我們的這偵查系統跟人力配置都不足所以常常都是由地方通報那我們海巡署才知道而去做處理"},{"start":562.618,"end":590.049,"text":"跟委員報告基本上官民聯防是整個海防當中的一部分我們巡邏的時候我們會發現如果民眾看到民眾也都會知道通報目前以通報的跟我們主動發現的比例大概是多少我來統計一下數字我們會後統計給委員好不好我現在主要要跟主委提醒的就是"},{"start":590.689,"end":610.456,"text":"因為我們現在看起來我們的人力確實有所不足所以在這個整個的這個偵查的系統會有這樣子的一個漏洞那也因為這樣子的漏洞有可能造成一個破口所以今天在本席在這邊特別要跟主委提醒的就是說針對這個人力的不足事實上是應該要跟巡政院這邊來去要求我們人力不足應該要補足"},{"start":613.997,"end":632.267,"text":"包括說我們有固定的SOP把這個檢體跟移送的過程應該都有固定的這個部分百分之百這個部分真的是百分之百的滴水不漏我們從出去的時候穿防護衣一到的時候馬上會控制現場因為環境的傾銷很重要我們會把那個防護線拉起來"},{"start":636.189,"end":647.152,"text":"那控制現場以後我們立刻就請這個防檢局到現場所以一定都通知地方政府那檢體呢檢體怎麼移送檢體就照防檢的程序會帶回去就做檢體那每一個案呢我們一定是初報、續報到結報一定追蹤到檢體到底是陰性還是陽性最後請一下張署長請教一下張署長就是署內目前就執勤的鑑體"},{"start":663.857,"end":669.179,"text":"岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的一個勤務就是執勤的艦艇還有岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材是否足夠應付當前的勤務跟委員報告所有艦艇的監控系統跟偵測系統是夠的但是檢疫的部分不是我們海巡組來負責那請看一下這篇報導就是審計部跟基層你們的這個"},{"start":692.591,"end":700.344,"text":"艦艇的人員都有提到其實現在海巡艦艇是人力不足的那所以說這個部分到底是什麼樣的原因"},{"start":701.585,"end":715.893,"text":"下請沒有辦法上達還是你們不了解事實上整體艦艇的人員是運用人數是不夠的跟委員報告我們艦艇的那個人員來是夠的那主要的那就是你們的調度有問題有一個空窗期是因為招生跟特考進來進入的時間他大概有三到六個月的空窗期因為他們進來以後要再受訓然後再到艦艇上去服務我想請主委跟署長要正視這個問題因為不管是審計部不管是基層的這個我們的同仁"},{"start":729.881,"end":737.227,"text":"都有發出這樣的警訊所以針對這樣子的一個人力的不足跟人力的調配請要好好的檢討相關的問題那也希望說會後也給我相關的資料那當然我想最後要跟各位報告就是說其實這一次的疫情啊如果不幸擴大的話可能會癱瘓的是我們2000萬產值的養豬產業所以說非同小可也是希望大家在每一個關節裡面大家都能夠一起共同來防疫讓我們台灣可以繼續更好"},{"start":758.464,"end":759.309,"text":"在這邊也感謝各位謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":543,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（10時13分）謝謝主席，我們請警政署張署長、移民署林署長、防檢署杜署長和關務署彭署長。"],["主席：好，請以上列席首長。"],["許委員宇甄：各位署長好。這一次非洲豬瘟的問題可以看到，最大的問題其實是在邊境執法的漏洞，幾年前，我們就已經宣布禁止從國外網購豬肉或肉品寄送入境，對不對？這是屬於哪一位負責的業務？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，豬肉跟含豬肉製品都是禁止輸入。"],["許委員宇甄：是幾年前宣布的？"],["彭署長英偉：這個政策是農業部訂定的，海關是執行單位。"],["許委員宇甄：好，那為什麼最近有民進黨的立委說是時候禁止淘寶等中國電商寄送肉製品到臺灣，有這個可能性嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：這已經執行非常多年了。"],["許委員宇甄：所以說其實早就禁止了，根本沒有這個問題。本席也有到淘寶網站點進去要買中國的豬肉，事實上它是完全沒辦法買的，它就告訴你中國是禁止輸入肉製品的。我不知道這個民進黨的立委是有特殊的管道，知道政府並沒有要嚴加查緝網購的食品，還是說本來就有很多違規的部分，在初檢階段就已經被錯放了？請問署長有這個可能嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，從我們查獲的統計數字來看，去年大概有一千一百多件，今年到現在有850件，這是海關在邊境把守查獲的部分，大部分都是來自旅客，旅客大概占了6成；那郵包的部分大概會占3成左右，所以還是有可能……"],["許委員宇甄：其實關務署是很嚴格在執行這樣子的一個……"],["彭署長英偉：當然是。"],["許委員宇甄：事實上我們出國搭機的時候，都感受到關務署這邊是非常的嚴格在執行，所以說我想民進黨的立委不該造謠的，就不要亂造謠，不要老是用這樣的方式去讓民眾恐慌，或是說拼多多、淘寶都是豬瘟的最大破口。其實現在大家擔心的是，從境外移入的時候，就如同剛剛講的6成是旅客帶進來的，那麼在這個查緝的過程中，經由X光機的查驗，真的有辦法百分之百查驗到嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，我們看X光機是利用它的顏色、密度以及形狀，這六、七年來我們都有建立資料庫，我們同仁對X光的判讀也都有做訓練，也有分級，我們有分初級、中級、高級。受過這些認證的都有四百……"],["許委員宇甄：所以，原則上你們在做這樣的查驗，其實是可以達到最高的效果是嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：我們非常的落實，然後我們也都有經驗。"],["許委員宇甄：好，再請問一下杜署長和彭署長，我們邊境防疫的第一線人員像防檢犬、保全員跟X光查驗員的人力，跟防疫犬有沒有缺口？"],["杜署長麗華：如果能夠再調高，再增加的話，其實是有幫助的。"],["許委員宇甄：所以表示是有缺口，人力是不足的。"],["杜署長麗華：是有幫助的；但以目前來講，我們每年的查驗從海關這邊送過來調查成案的部分，從112年到114年裁處的案件有40件……"],["許委員宇甄：所以這個部分，目前聽起來是有缺口的嘛！那要怎麼補強？"],["杜署長麗華：我們在保全的這個部分，其實也是落實在做；現在就是關務署的部分，我們希望可以再提高旅客查驗的檢驗次數。"],["許委員宇甄：請問關務署署長，剛剛防檢署說要提高查驗次數，你覺得是這個是主因嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，我們現在因為要加強查核的力度，所以我們有要求同仁在人工查驗的部分，要提高一定的比例。目前雖然都經過百分之百的X光，但就人工查驗的部分，我們要求同仁……"],["許委員宇甄：人力夠不夠？"],["彭署長英偉：我們已經都達到人力的極限了。"],["許委員宇甄：極限不就表示人力不足嘛！所以這個部分，你們有跟行政院提出，比如說請內政部、財政部……"],["彭署長英偉：跟委員報告，我們每年都會檢討我們的人力。"],["許委員宇甄：是不是需要跟行政院這邊來要求？"],["彭署長英偉：我們也都會跟人總……"],["許委員宇甄：都有要求？"],["彭署長英偉：對，都有要求。"],["許委員宇甄：那就請行政院針對這個部分，好好的審視我們基層人力不足的問題。當然我也要請教一下警政署長，針對肉品偽報跟非法攜帶的部分，有一些我們在夜市可以看到，有一些可能是非法攜帶在販售的，針對這個部分，警政署跟關務署跟海巡署是不是有情資共用的平台，針對這樣的案件，不管是跨境電商或快遞案件，建立即時追蹤系統，你們這三年有沒有查獲違規肉品？件數跟趨勢是不是有下降？"],["張署長榮興：跟委員報告，警政署的部分就是配合關務署，還有主管機關對於邊境的查驗，這五年來大概查了1,593件，這個豬肉大概2,000公斤左右。這個就是配合……"],["許委員宇甄：請問你們有沒有一個情資共用平台可以互相來連繫，要不然的話大家都在做一樣的事情，那可能會……"],["張署長榮興：我們的工作是跟海關一起看的……"],["許委員宇甄：比如像夜市剛剛提到……"],["張署長榮興：夜市的這個部分，大概就是配合聯合稽查小組一起，因為我們要辨別這個部分就是由主管機關來做……"],["許委員宇甄：所以你們有一個小組，等於說……"],["張署長榮興：有聯合小組來做這件事情。"],["許委員宇甄：再請教一下杜署長，107年在面對中國大陸非洲豬瘟疫情的時候，當時雲林縣張縣長是全面禁止廚餘養豬，時任的行政院長，也就是現在的賴清德總統，他說因為大多數的縣市長反對，所以他沒有禁用廚餘養豬，可是現在看起來，如果七年前就禁用廚餘養豬的話，其實現在就沒有這個問題。剛剛聽了各位署長的講法，其實大家對邊境管理都盡了最大努力，重點是廚餘養豬，因為只要不用廚餘養豬，就不會有這個問題了。當時賴院長說不用廚餘養豬是因為大部分的縣市都反對，那請問一下，現在一般性補助款，大部分的縣市也都反對，希望趕快補給他們啊！可是賴總統也沒有因為大部分縣市都反對，就趕快把一般性補助款還給地方！針對這個部分，依農業部的專業來說，你們覺得該不該禁用廚餘養豬？"],["杜署長麗華：我覺得每個時代有它的時空背景，不過以現在來講……"],["許委員宇甄：您就以現在的專業來講。"],["杜署長麗華：以現在來講，廚餘的禁止與否其實是地方政府的權責，所以現在……"],["許委員宇甄：如果中央嚴格要求的話，全國一致性，事實上禁用廚餘養豬才是這一次我們可以解決非洲豬瘟最大的一個方向才對。"],["杜署長麗華：目前我們在跨部會協調中，重點還是地方，以現在來講，比如雲林也好、花蓮也好，還有高雄市都是全面禁止廚餘的縣市，所以地方政府依照自治的精神是可以禁止全面的……"],["許委員宇甄：如果中央可以要求的話；我跟你講要地方禁用廚餘養豬是非常的困難，需要花很多的時間，但雲林做得到，相信全國都做得到……"],["杜署長麗華：高雄市也做得到。"],["許委員宇甄：對，所以我覺得這個可以讓其他縣市來分享，絕對做得到，但要中央一致的法令，這樣地方才不會無所適從。這個部分也請署長要帶回去。","不好意思，請主席再給我一分鐘，因為剛剛我讓所有的署長有充分的回答。接下來我要請教海委會管主委跟海巡署張署長。"],["管主任委員碧玲：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：主委好。主委，10月23日我們又在馬祖北竿的沙灘發現有死亡的病豬，海漂的豬其實常常發現，剛剛也聽主委講了，基本上你們都把它視為是非洲豬瘟的陽性而提早做處理；但是現在這一件它是經由通報，海巡署才知道，這是不是表示我們的偵查系統跟人力配置都不足，所以常常都是由地方通報，海巡署才知道去做處理？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，基本上官民聯防是整個海防當中的一部分，我們巡邏的時候，我們會發現；如果民眾看到，民眾也都會通報，基本上，我們每天都有巡邏。"],["許委員宇甄：對，目前已通報的跟我們主動發現的比例，大概是多少？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們會後統計給委員好不好？"],["許委員宇甄：好，我要跟主委提醒的，是因為現在看起來，我們的人力確實有所不足，所以在這整個偵查系統會有這樣子的一個漏洞，也因為這樣子的漏洞，有可能造成一個破口。所以本席今天在這邊特別要跟主委提醒的，就是針對人力的不足，應該要跟行政院要求我們人力不足，予以補足，包括我們是不是有固定的SOP，就是對這個檢體跟移送的過程，應該都有固定的SOP。"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個部分真的是百分之百的滴水不漏，我們從出去的時候穿防護衣，一到了馬上會控制現場，因為環境的清消很重要，我們會把防護線拉起來；控制現場以後，立刻就請防檢局到現場，所以一定都通知地方政府。"],["許委員宇甄：檢體呢？檢體怎麼移送？"],["管主任委員碧玲：檢體就照防檢的程序會帶回去做檢驗，每一個案都一定是初報、續報到結報，一定追蹤到檢體到底是陰性或陽性才會結束。"],["許委員宇甄：我最後請教一下張署長，署內目前就執勤的艦艇、岸際的監控系統跟檢疫的器材，是否足夠應付當前的勤務？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員報告，所有艦艇的監控系統跟偵搜系統是夠的，但檢疫的部分並不是我們海巡署來負責。"],["許委員宇甄：請看一下這篇報導，審計部跟你們的基層、艦艇人員都有提到，其實現在海巡艦艇人力是不足的，所以這個部分到底是什麼樣的原因？是下情沒有辦法上達，還是你們不了解事實上整體艦艇人員的人數是不夠的？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：跟委員報告，我們艦艇人員的來源是夠的，主要會有中間一個空窗……"],["許委員宇甄：那就是你們的調度有問題、運用有問題？"],["張副主任委員忠龍：有一個空窗期是因為招生跟特考進來到進用的時間，大概有三到六個月的空窗期，因為他們進來以後還要再受訓，然後再到艦艇上去服務。"],["許委員宇甄：我想請主委跟署長一定要正視這個問題，因為不管是審計部，不管是你們基層的同仁都有發出這樣的警訊，針對這樣一個人力不足跟人力調配的情況，請你們去好好檢討相關的問題，也希望你們會後能給我相關的資料。","當然，最後要跟各位報告的是，其實這一次的疫情如果不幸擴大的話，可能會癱瘓我們2,000萬產值的養豬產業，所以這件事非同小可，也希望大家在每一個關節裡面都能夠一起共同來防疫，讓我們臺灣可以繼續更好，在這邊也感謝各位，謝謝。"],["張副主任委員忠龍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員，謝謝列席的官員。","接下來請牛煦庭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-8","speakers":["黃建賓","徐巧芯","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","李柏毅","謝龍介","丁學忠","徐富癸","林楚茵","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳雪生","高金素梅","黃捷"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部移民署署長、海洋委員\n會海巡署署長、農業部部長、財政部關務署署長，就「防堵非洲豬瘟邊境檢疫與查緝機制之檢討\n與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「海岸巡防法第十三條\n條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148901_00004"}}}