{"id":164830,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164830","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da51b3dbc80a4fec58f514a9ab9b55a87a241e9be59762a4979e36b0844119b6f4c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:31:56 - 12:42:32","影片長度":"00:10:36","會議時間":"2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等27人、委員黃秀芳等21人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員范雲等18人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員沈發惠等18人、委員王育敏等19人、委員王育敏等25人擬、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」、委員郭昱晴等17人、委員羅廷瑋等18人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n（一）委員王正旭等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條修正草案」案。\n（五）委員林淑芬等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【二、(三)至(七)案，如經復議則不予審查；二、(八)至(十)案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】\n【10月29日及10月30日，二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-29","start_time":"2025-10-29T12:31:56+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-29T12:42:32+08:00","duration":636,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-7"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"164830","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164830","tool":"pyannote","id":"164830-pyannote"},"job_id":"m94SiOtpP6L5pzrx","queued_at":"2025-10-29 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629.61, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 629.61, \"end\": 629.63, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 629.63, \"end\": 629.65, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 629.65, \"end\": 629.67, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 629.67, \"end\": 629.69, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,342 --> 00:00:32,975\n好謝謝主席好謝謝有請彭部長來請部長部長好王委員好是在還沒有請教部長之前剛好一直提到有關廚餘機嘛事實上像大型的公務機關比如說立法院好了立法院如果有一部商用的廚餘機應該是大家會很高興\n\n2\n00:00:33,995 --> 00:00:51,443\n不管是立法院啊或者是行政院甚至其他的公務機關如果能夠適當的請這些部分來處理的話應該是可以讓大家集中在用餐以後這些處理能夠有好的地方來來處理那這個祖密可以幫忙反映嗎\n\n3\n00:00:54,289 --> 00:01:17,185\n還是我們有其他的管道也報告委員上次有委員建議說我們的廁所衛生紙不能丟那我們就有來輔導了然後現在立法院衛生紙可以丟馬桶了那可能委員提出質疑我們就協助來辦理OK好太好了這樣的話我相信對於處理減量會有很大的幫助\n\n4\n00:01:17,805 --> 00:01:34,454\n所以今天就根據召委所排的主題來跟部長討論一下我相信今天已經講了非常非常的多不過希望也能夠有機會提供一點意見再讓部長做參考第一個部分就是提升出於區劃量能跟再利用的成效\n\n5\n00:01:35,695 --> 00:01:53,622\n其實我們也知道過去這幾年來7年來家戶廚餘其實這個量變動並不大都維持在50萬噸左右其中就是會有40%是用來做養豬另外有45%是用來堆肥\n\n6\n00:01:54,622 --> 00:02:11,691\n我們看到比較好的就是從過去的很少量是用來做其他的部分再利用的地方已經增長到11.4%這部分的確我相信環境部這邊其實非常用心的在處理\n\n7\n00:02:12,091 --> 00:02:25,099\n那其中包括黑水盲處理的廚餘每一年去年就有1萬噸佔了整體在利用的1.9%那今天這個部長的口頭報告裡面也都講得非常清楚那其實\n\n8\n00:02:26,678 --> 00:02:41,208\n如果再把這個四葉廚餘再加進來的話有關於飼料化處理就從四層變成了六層那代表著說我們的四葉廚餘其實很多都會把它變成一個廚餘的部分\n\n9\n00:02:42,589 --> 00:03:00,252\n其實我們剛剛部長有提到這個廚餘量這麼大其實養豬除了讓豬當飼料以外很大一部分就是希望能夠讓這個在處理廚餘過程當中是一個很好的減量的一種方式這個我們也可以理解\n\n10\n00:03:01,393 --> 00:03:20,913\n不過如果能夠有更好的方式的話尤其如果要目標是未來不要把它當作一個出於去養豬的話可能我們很多很多的事情都要持續的來努力那去年應該說今年五月跟七月裡面我們也分別在環境部跟農業部請\n\n11\n00:03:23,816 --> 00:03:45,825\n兩個部會一起來努力以黑水盲來處理不管是PFAS或者是食品廢棄物處理相關的成效的部分那個時候兩個部會都有表示說依據相關的目標來持續推動政策跟鬆綁相關的法律規範請問目前兩個部會的這個\n\n12\n00:03:48,526 --> 00:04:16,375\n討論平台有沒有實際的鑑度那如何能夠更有效率的來促成這部分不知道部長這邊有沒有可以來做進一步說明的地方包委因為趁這次的這個廚藝的事情我們我也主動跟陳部長說我們要加速來完成這個事情例如說如何訂定可以做當成飼料例如說他吃什麼可以變成飼料什麼這個要有一個更好的一個明確的規範我相信\n\n13\n00:04:17,095 --> 00:04:44,020\n我們會加速來完成這些事情因為黑水盲的確是一個很有效有潛力的一個措施啦那這個部分呢我們會再跟農業部在最後的再確認我們希望能夠樂觀啟程這個可以趕快發展起來一個月或者是到年底方便給我們報告好我也到年底好不好因為我們最近真的很趕了解了解好那就麻煩在年底的時候\n\n14\n00:04:45,109 --> 00:05:10,182\n給我們一份相關的那個研議的報告那再過來就是講到這個預防並減少食物浪費那部長一直強調這個源頭減量才是最好的選擇我相信大家都可以認同這個部分那我們有沒有什麼更具體的因應政策這邊我們看到的就是已經進入了三年的有關於一個環境教育活動\n\n15\n00:05:10,922 --> 00:05:26,134\n就是起始來簡除於有一個競賽叫做首席廚師競賽看起來好像辦得非常的熱絡而且它的總獎金是75萬元裡面有所謂的十大行動的理念部長不曉得有沒有去參與這樣的活動有\n\n16\n00:05:29,196 --> 00:05:56,207\n那也跟委員報告因為這個是一個宣導型的一個活動那我昨天也特別跟我們的主辦的這個市長討論說我們辦這個活動或是說我們國人的剩食大概量是多少有沒有一個更好的指標能夠來做確定那當然我們因為知道這個洗食跟食農教育是有關所以我也主動提出來說因為食農教育是農業部在主責未來我們希望在能夠針對這個源頭講的部分特別是食物浪費的部分\n\n17\n00:05:56,827 --> 00:06:13,646\n這個也是保護地球的一種方式特別是在資源匱乏的時候所以我們會更積極的來處理因為目前我必須坦誠這個是一個活動活動型的活動鼓勵大家但是真的減了多少的量我還不知道所以我必須要用更好的方法來解決\n\n18\n00:06:14,167 --> 00:06:27,476\n是的確這是一個永續理念的一種推廣也希望能夠將來落實那我們來看其他國家怎麼處理好的比如說在韓國韓國的這個廚餘的處理方式呢他是用\n\n19\n00:06:28,298 --> 00:06:46,963\n劑量付費的原則就是你儲餘量越多你就要繳更多的費用來協助政府或者是協助相關的機關把這個部分能夠更有好的經費來處理這是韓國有的經驗這是一種可以達成導演作用的一個做法\n\n20\n00:06:48,124 --> 00:07:10,906\n比較特別的反而是法國法國在2016年他們就定立了反食品浪費法他們的做法就是要求禁止就是該法禁止面積超過400平方公尺的大型超市銷毀或者是丟棄可食用的食物取而代之的是強制要求跟食物原住的組織包括食物銀行等\n\n21\n00:07:11,346 --> 00:07:30,068\n慈善機關他們會先訂立一個捐贈的協議再分配那如果不遵守這個法律的經營者將被處以罰款這個是他們當初執行的時候那後來他們將集體的差點不管是監獄醫院或者學校都把它納為其中的一環\n\n22\n00:07:31,209 --> 00:07:49,709\n希望能夠要求去做食物浪費的診斷因為你有診斷知道怎麼處理才能夠有效的去把這個食物浪費減少這個是他們曾經正在執行當中的一些內容這個是可以當作一個參考的部分\n\n23\n00:07:50,249 --> 00:07:59,897\n不知道這部分環境部甚至包括農業部可不可以一起來研議如果國外有相關的經驗的話台灣如何能夠借用國外的經驗來做後續的處理\n\n24\n00:08:01,823 --> 00:08:27,037\n好謝謝委員這非常好的建議因為法國這個法我六月的時候剛好到法國有當面問他們的官員這個法實際上執行的狀況那我們會密切注意那也跟委員報告因為我們現在也在推一個資源循環的推動法那其實也會把這個觀念放在這個法裡面也希望委員到時候可以來支持做這個事情因為這個是避免食物浪費很重要的法規上面訂定的一個一環\n\n25\n00:08:27,537 --> 00:08:51,782\n是太好了我們會除了積極來互相討論以外我們希望這個法律能夠順利經過大家共同討論來支持是好謝謝那最後有關於這個處以爭主的申報系統跟稽查長我想今天已經非常多的委員針對於相關的這個內容做了相關的槌尋那部長也都有意義來做說明\n\n26\n00:08:52,322 --> 00:09:07,123\n那我們也看到的確的確還是有將近一半左右他沒有辦法要依照好的規定來做稽核稽查那這部分我覺得是不是\n\n27\n00:09:08,044 --> 00:09:26,349\n部長這邊有可以更有強力的一些作為來協助地方政府在這個處理過程當中如果他們無法去稽查有什麼特別原因或者是這個當中如果又有其他新的破口出來造成的問題部長這邊能不能更有更積極的作為來協助處理這一塊\n\n28\n00:09:28,909 --> 00:09:55,976\n報告委員因為這個是108年一直到現在剛好今年我們也嘗試進行一些感測器溫度計在這個鍋爐甚至還有CCTV直接即時的監控目前我們有測試過了某一個廠然後其實執行的效果蠻好的而且這樣就避免說他到底有沒有去稽查我們會更有強制的力量也可以幫地方政府來做這個事所以我們正在研議如果未來還是必須靠廚藝真主的話\n\n29\n00:09:56,556 --> 00:10:14,084\n我們就強烈建議要導入這套的系統是期待就是說如果民眾能夠掌握類似的訊息我相信地方住管機關也會比較有壓力所以我們希望把這個訊息能夠不斷的或者是甚至是每天能夠讓透過媒體朋友的一些報導\n\n30\n00:10:15,705 --> 00:10:29,690\n讓民眾知道現在的狀況那也希望地方政府能夠充分的來配合要求所有的這個養豬場或者是相關的處理都可以如期如大家共同努力的方向好沒有問題謝謝委員請部長謝謝幫忙謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8342\t32975\t好 謝謝主席好 謝謝有請彭部長來 請部長部長好王委員好是在還沒有請教部長之前剛好一直提到有關廚餘機嘛事實上像大型的公務機關比如說立法院好了立法院如果有一部商用的廚餘機應該是大家會很高興\n33995\t51443\t不管是立法院啊或者是行政院甚至其他的公務機關如果能夠適當的請這些部分來處理的話應該是可以讓大家集中在用餐以後這些處理能夠有好的地方來來處理那這個祖密可以幫忙反映嗎\n54289\t77185\t還是我們有其他的管道也報告委員上次有委員建議說我們的廁所衛生紙不能丟那我們就有來輔導了然後現在立法院衛生紙可以丟馬桶了那可能委員提出質疑我們就協助來辦理OK 好 太好了這樣的話我相信對於處理減量會有很大的幫助\n77805\t94454\t所以今天就根據召委所排的主題來跟部長討論一下我相信今天已經講了非常非常的多不過希望也能夠有機會提供一點意見再讓部長做參考第一個部分就是提升出於區劃量能跟再利用的成效\n95695\t113622\t其實我們也知道過去這幾年來7年來家戶廚餘其實這個量變動並不大都維持在50萬噸左右其中就是會有40%是用來做養豬另外有45%是用來堆肥\n114622\t131691\t我們看到比較好的就是從過去的很少量是用來做其他的部分再利用的地方已經增長到11.4%這部分的確我相信環境部這邊其實非常用心的在處理\n132091\t145099\t那其中包括黑水盲處理的廚餘每一年去年就有1萬噸佔了整體在利用的1.9%那今天這個部長的口頭報告裡面也都講得非常清楚那其實\n146678\t161208\t如果再把這個四葉廚餘再加進來的話有關於飼料化處理就從四層變成了六層那代表著說我們的四葉廚餘其實很多都會把它變成一個廚餘的部分\n162589\t180252\t其實我們剛剛部長有提到這個廚餘量這麼大其實養豬除了讓豬當飼料以外很大一部分就是希望能夠讓這個在處理廚餘過程當中是一個很好的減量的一種方式這個我們也可以理解\n181393\t200913\t不過如果能夠有更好的方式的話尤其如果要目標是未來不要把它當作一個出於去養豬的話可能我們很多很多的事情都要持續的來努力那去年應該說今年五月跟七月裡面我們也分別在環境部跟農業部請\n203816\t225825\t兩個部會一起來努力以黑水盲來處理不管是PFAS或者是食品廢棄物處理相關的成效的部分那個時候兩個部會都有表示說依據相關的目標來持續推動政策跟鬆綁相關的法律規範請問目前兩個部會的這個\n228526\t256375\t討論平台有沒有實際的鑑度那如何能夠更有效率的來促成這部分不知道部長這邊有沒有可以來做進一步說明的地方包委 因為趁這次的這個廚藝的事情我們我也主動跟陳部長說我們要加速來完成這個事情例如說如何訂定可以做當成飼料例如說他吃什麼可以變成飼料什麼這個要有一個更好的一個明確的規範我相信\n257095\t284020\t我們會加速來完成這些事情因為黑水盲的確是一個很有效有潛力的一個措施啦那這個部分呢我們會再跟農業部在最後的再確認我們希望能夠樂觀啟程這個可以趕快發展起來一個月或者是到年底方便給我們報告好 我也到年底好不好因為我們最近真的很趕 了解了解好那就麻煩在年底的時候\n285109\t310182\t給我們一份相關的那個研議的報告那再過來就是講到這個預防並減少食物浪費那部長一直強調這個源頭減量才是最好的選擇我相信大家都可以認同這個部分那我們有沒有什麼更具體的因應政策這邊我們看到的就是已經進入了三年的有關於一個環境教育活動\n310922\t326134\t就是起始來簡除於有一個競賽叫做首席廚師競賽看起來好像辦得非常的熱絡而且它的總獎金是75萬元裡面有所謂的十大行動的理念部長不曉得有沒有去參與這樣的活動有\n329196\t356207\t那也跟委員報告因為這個是一個宣導型的一個活動那我昨天也特別跟我們的主辦的這個市長討論說我們辦這個活動或是說我們國人的剩食大概量是多少有沒有一個更好的指標能夠來做確定那當然我們因為知道這個洗食跟食農教育是有關所以我也主動提出來說因為食農教育是農業部在主責未來我們希望在能夠針對這個源頭講的部分特別是食物浪費的部分\n356827\t373646\t這個也是保護地球的一種方式特別是在資源匱乏的時候所以我們會更積極的來處理因為目前我必須坦誠這個是一個活動 活動型的活動鼓勵大家 但是真的減了多少的量我還不知道所以我必須要用更好的方法來解決\n374167\t387476\t是的確這是一個永續理念的一種推廣也希望能夠將來落實那我們來看其他國家怎麼處理好的比如說在韓國韓國的這個廚餘的處理方式呢他是用\n388298\t406963\t劑量付費的原則就是你儲餘量越多你就要繳更多的費用來協助政府或者是協助相關的機關把這個部分能夠更有好的經費來處理這是韓國有的經驗這是一種可以達成導演作用的一個做法\n408124\t430906\t比較特別的反而是法國法國在2016年他們就定立了反食品浪費法他們的做法就是要求禁止就是該法禁止面積超過400平方公尺的大型超市銷毀或者是丟棄可食用的食物取而代之的是強制要求跟食物原住的組織包括食物銀行等\n431346\t450068\t慈善機關他們會先訂立一個捐贈的協議再分配那如果不遵守這個法律的經營者將被處以罰款這個是他們當初執行的時候那後來他們將集體的差點不管是監獄 醫院或者學校都把它納為其中的一環\n451209\t469709\t希望能夠要求去做食物浪費的診斷因為你有診斷 知道怎麼處理才能夠有效的去把這個食物浪費減少這個是他們曾經正在執行當中的一些內容這個是可以當作一個參考的部分\n470249\t479897\t不知道這部分環境部甚至包括農業部可不可以一起來研議如果國外有相關的經驗的話台灣如何能夠借用國外的經驗來做後續的處理\n481823\t507037\t好 謝謝委員 這非常好的建議因為法國這個法我六月的時候剛好到法國有當面問他們的官員這個法實際上執行的狀況那我們會密切注意那也跟委員報告因為我們現在也在推一個資源循環的推動法那其實也會把這個觀念放在這個法裡面也希望委員到時候可以來支持做這個事情因為這個是避免食物浪費很重要的法規上面訂定的一個一環\n507537\t531782\t是太好了我們會除了積極來互相討論以外我們希望這個法律能夠順利經過大家共同討論來支持是好謝謝那最後有關於這個處以爭主的申報系統跟稽查長我想今天已經非常多的委員針對於相關的這個內容做了相關的槌尋那部長也都有意義來做說明\n532322\t547123\t那我們也看到的確的確還是有將近一半左右他沒有辦法要依照好的規定來做稽核稽查那這部分我覺得是不是\n548044\t566349\t部長這邊有可以更有強力的一些作為來協助地方政府在這個處理過程當中如果他們無法去稽查有什麼特別原因或者是這個當中如果又有其他新的破口出來造成的問題部長這邊能不能更有更積極的作為來協助處理這一塊\n568909\t595976\t報告委員因為這個是108年一直到現在剛好今年我們也嘗試進行一些感測器溫度計在這個鍋爐甚至還有CCTV直接即時的監控目前我們有測試過了某一個廠然後其實執行的效果蠻好的而且這樣就避免說他到底有沒有去稽查我們會更有強制的力量也可以幫地方政府來做這個事所以我們正在研議如果未來還是必須靠廚藝真主的話\n596556\t614084\t我們就強烈建議要導入這套的系統是 期待就是說如果民眾能夠掌握類似的訊息我相信地方住管機關也會比較有壓力所以我們希望把這個訊息能夠不斷的或者是甚至是每天能夠讓透過媒體朋友的一些報導\n615705\t629690\t讓民眾知道現在的狀況那也希望地方政府能夠充分的來配合要求所有的這個養豬場或者是相關的處理都可以如期如大家共同努力的方向好沒有問題謝謝委員請部長謝謝幫忙謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席好 謝謝有請彭部長來 請部長部長好王委員好是在還沒有請教部長之前剛好一直提到有關廚餘機嘛事實上像大型的公務機關比如說立法院好了立法院如果有一部商用的廚餘機應該是大家會很高興\n不管是立法院啊或者是行政院甚至其他的公務機關如果能夠適當的請這些部分來處理的話應該是可以讓大家集中在用餐以後這些處理能夠有好的地方來來處理那這個祖密可以幫忙反映嗎\n還是我們有其他的管道也報告委員上次有委員建議說我們的廁所衛生紙不能丟那我們就有來輔導了然後現在立法院衛生紙可以丟馬桶了那可能委員提出質疑我們就協助來辦理OK 好 太好了這樣的話我相信對於處理減量會有很大的幫助\n所以今天就根據召委所排的主題來跟部長討論一下我相信今天已經講了非常非常的多不過希望也能夠有機會提供一點意見再讓部長做參考第一個部分就是提升出於區劃量能跟再利用的成效\n其實我們也知道過去這幾年來7年來家戶廚餘其實這個量變動並不大都維持在50萬噸左右其中就是會有40%是用來做養豬另外有45%是用來堆肥\n我們看到比較好的就是從過去的很少量是用來做其他的部分再利用的地方已經增長到11.4%這部分的確我相信環境部這邊其實非常用心的在處理\n那其中包括黑水盲處理的廚餘每一年去年就有1萬噸佔了整體在利用的1.9%那今天這個部長的口頭報告裡面也都講得非常清楚那其實\n如果再把這個四葉廚餘再加進來的話有關於飼料化處理就從四層變成了六層那代表著說我們的四葉廚餘其實很多都會把它變成一個廚餘的部分\n其實我們剛剛部長有提到這個廚餘量這麼大其實養豬除了讓豬當飼料以外很大一部分就是希望能夠讓這個在處理廚餘過程當中是一個很好的減量的一種方式這個我們也可以理解\n不過如果能夠有更好的方式的話尤其如果要目標是未來不要把它當作一個出於去養豬的話可能我們很多很多的事情都要持續的來努力那去年應該說今年五月跟七月裡面我們也分別在環境部跟農業部請\n兩個部會一起來努力以黑水盲來處理不管是PFAS或者是食品廢棄物處理相關的成效的部分那個時候兩個部會都有表示說依據相關的目標來持續推動政策跟鬆綁相關的法律規範請問目前兩個部會的這個\n討論平台有沒有實際的鑑度那如何能夠更有效率的來促成這部分不知道部長這邊有沒有可以來做進一步說明的地方包委 因為趁這次的這個廚藝的事情我們我也主動跟陳部長說我們要加速來完成這個事情例如說如何訂定可以做當成飼料例如說他吃什麼可以變成飼料什麼這個要有一個更好的一個明確的規範我相信\n我們會加速來完成這些事情因為黑水盲的確是一個很有效有潛力的一個措施啦那這個部分呢我們會再跟農業部在最後的再確認我們希望能夠樂觀啟程這個可以趕快發展起來一個月或者是到年底方便給我們報告好 我也到年底好不好因為我們最近真的很趕 了解了解好那就麻煩在年底的時候\n給我們一份相關的那個研議的報告那再過來就是講到這個預防並減少食物浪費那部長一直強調這個源頭減量才是最好的選擇我相信大家都可以認同這個部分那我們有沒有什麼更具體的因應政策這邊我們看到的就是已經進入了三年的有關於一個環境教育活動\n就是起始來簡除於有一個競賽叫做首席廚師競賽看起來好像辦得非常的熱絡而且它的總獎金是75萬元裡面有所謂的十大行動的理念部長不曉得有沒有去參與這樣的活動有\n那也跟委員報告因為這個是一個宣導型的一個活動那我昨天也特別跟我們的主辦的這個市長討論說我們辦這個活動或是說我們國人的剩食大概量是多少有沒有一個更好的指標能夠來做確定那當然我們因為知道這個洗食跟食農教育是有關所以我也主動提出來說因為食農教育是農業部在主責未來我們希望在能夠針對這個源頭講的部分特別是食物浪費的部分\n這個也是保護地球的一種方式特別是在資源匱乏的時候所以我們會更積極的來處理因為目前我必須坦誠這個是一個活動 活動型的活動鼓勵大家 但是真的減了多少的量我還不知道所以我必須要用更好的方法來解決\n是的確這是一個永續理念的一種推廣也希望能夠將來落實那我們來看其他國家怎麼處理好的比如說在韓國韓國的這個廚餘的處理方式呢他是用\n劑量付費的原則就是你儲餘量越多你就要繳更多的費用來協助政府或者是協助相關的機關把這個部分能夠更有好的經費來處理這是韓國有的經驗這是一種可以達成導演作用的一個做法\n比較特別的反而是法國法國在2016年他們就定立了反食品浪費法他們的做法就是要求禁止就是該法禁止面積超過400平方公尺的大型超市銷毀或者是丟棄可食用的食物取而代之的是強制要求跟食物原住的組織包括食物銀行等\n慈善機關他們會先訂立一個捐贈的協議再分配那如果不遵守這個法律的經營者將被處以罰款這個是他們當初執行的時候那後來他們將集體的差點不管是監獄 醫院或者學校都把它納為其中的一環\n希望能夠要求去做食物浪費的診斷因為你有診斷 知道怎麼處理才能夠有效的去把這個食物浪費減少這個是他們曾經正在執行當中的一些內容這個是可以當作一個參考的部分\n不知道這部分環境部甚至包括農業部可不可以一起來研議如果國外有相關的經驗的話台灣如何能夠借用國外的經驗來做後續的處理\n好 謝謝委員 這非常好的建議因為法國這個法我六月的時候剛好到法國有當面問他們的官員這個法實際上執行的狀況那我們會密切注意那也跟委員報告因為我們現在也在推一個資源循環的推動法那其實也會把這個觀念放在這個法裡面也希望委員到時候可以來支持做這個事情因為這個是避免食物浪費很重要的法規上面訂定的一個一環\n是太好了我們會除了積極來互相討論以外我們希望這個法律能夠順利經過大家共同討論來支持是好謝謝那最後有關於這個處以爭主的申報系統跟稽查長我想今天已經非常多的委員針對於相關的這個內容做了相關的槌尋那部長也都有意義來做說明\n那我們也看到的確的確還是有將近一半左右他沒有辦法要依照好的規定來做稽核稽查那這部分我覺得是不是\n部長這邊有可以更有強力的一些作為來協助地方政府在這個處理過程當中如果他們無法去稽查有什麼特別原因或者是這個當中如果又有其他新的破口出來造成的問題部長這邊能不能更有更積極的作為來協助處理這一塊\n報告委員因為這個是108年一直到現在剛好今年我們也嘗試進行一些感測器溫度計在這個鍋爐甚至還有CCTV直接即時的監控目前我們有測試過了某一個廠然後其實執行的效果蠻好的而且這樣就避免說他到底有沒有去稽查我們會更有強制的力量也可以幫地方政府來做這個事所以我們正在研議如果未來還是必須靠廚藝真主的話\n我們就強烈建議要導入這套的系統是 期待就是說如果民眾能夠掌握類似的訊息我相信地方住管機關也會比較有壓力所以我們希望把這個訊息能夠不斷的或者是甚至是每天能夠讓透過媒體朋友的一些報導\n讓民眾知道現在的狀況那也希望地方政府能夠充分的來配合要求所有的這個養豬場或者是相關的處理都可以如期如大家共同努力的方向好沒有問題謝謝委員請部長謝謝幫忙謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.342 --> 00:32.975\n好謝謝主席好謝謝有請彭部長來請部長部長好王委員好是在還沒有請教部長之前剛好一直提到有關廚餘機嘛事實上像大型的公務機關比如說立法院好了立法院如果有一部商用的廚餘機應該是大家會很高興\n\n00:33.995 --> 00:51.443\n不管是立法院啊或者是行政院甚至其他的公務機關如果能夠適當的請這些部分來處理的話應該是可以讓大家集中在用餐以後這些處理能夠有好的地方來來處理那這個祖密可以幫忙反映嗎\n\n00:54.289 --> 01:17.185\n還是我們有其他的管道也報告委員上次有委員建議說我們的廁所衛生紙不能丟那我們就有來輔導了然後現在立法院衛生紙可以丟馬桶了那可能委員提出質疑我們就協助來辦理OK好太好了這樣的話我相信對於處理減量會有很大的幫助\n\n01:17.805 --> 01:34.454\n所以今天就根據召委所排的主題來跟部長討論一下我相信今天已經講了非常非常的多不過希望也能夠有機會提供一點意見再讓部長做參考第一個部分就是提升出於區劃量能跟再利用的成效\n\n01:35.695 --> 01:53.622\n其實我們也知道過去這幾年來7年來家戶廚餘其實這個量變動並不大都維持在50萬噸左右其中就是會有40%是用來做養豬另外有45%是用來堆肥\n\n01:54.622 --> 02:11.691\n我們看到比較好的就是從過去的很少量是用來做其他的部分再利用的地方已經增長到11.4%這部分的確我相信環境部這邊其實非常用心的在處理\n\n02:12.091 --> 02:25.099\n那其中包括黑水盲處理的廚餘每一年去年就有1萬噸佔了整體在利用的1.9%那今天這個部長的口頭報告裡面也都講得非常清楚那其實\n\n02:26.678 --> 02:41.208\n如果再把這個四葉廚餘再加進來的話有關於飼料化處理就從四層變成了六層那代表著說我們的四葉廚餘其實很多都會把它變成一個廚餘的部分\n\n02:42.589 --> 03:00.252\n其實我們剛剛部長有提到這個廚餘量這麼大其實養豬除了讓豬當飼料以外很大一部分就是希望能夠讓這個在處理廚餘過程當中是一個很好的減量的一種方式這個我們也可以理解\n\n03:01.393 --> 03:20.913\n不過如果能夠有更好的方式的話尤其如果要目標是未來不要把它當作一個出於去養豬的話可能我們很多很多的事情都要持續的來努力那去年應該說今年五月跟七月裡面我們也分別在環境部跟農業部請\n\n03:23.816 --> 03:45.825\n兩個部會一起來努力以黑水盲來處理不管是PFAS或者是食品廢棄物處理相關的成效的部分那個時候兩個部會都有表示說依據相關的目標來持續推動政策跟鬆綁相關的法律規範請問目前兩個部會的這個\n\n03:48.526 --> 04:16.375\n討論平台有沒有實際的鑑度那如何能夠更有效率的來促成這部分不知道部長這邊有沒有可以來做進一步說明的地方包委因為趁這次的這個廚藝的事情我們我也主動跟陳部長說我們要加速來完成這個事情例如說如何訂定可以做當成飼料例如說他吃什麼可以變成飼料什麼這個要有一個更好的一個明確的規範我相信\n\n04:17.095 --> 04:44.020\n我們會加速來完成這些事情因為黑水盲的確是一個很有效有潛力的一個措施啦那這個部分呢我們會再跟農業部在最後的再確認我們希望能夠樂觀啟程這個可以趕快發展起來一個月或者是到年底方便給我們報告好我也到年底好不好因為我們最近真的很趕了解了解好那就麻煩在年底的時候\n\n04:45.109 --> 05:10.182\n給我們一份相關的那個研議的報告那再過來就是講到這個預防並減少食物浪費那部長一直強調這個源頭減量才是最好的選擇我相信大家都可以認同這個部分那我們有沒有什麼更具體的因應政策這邊我們看到的就是已經進入了三年的有關於一個環境教育活動\n\n05:10.922 --> 05:26.134\n就是起始來簡除於有一個競賽叫做首席廚師競賽看起來好像辦得非常的熱絡而且它的總獎金是75萬元裡面有所謂的十大行動的理念部長不曉得有沒有去參與這樣的活動有\n\n05:29.196 --> 05:56.207\n那也跟委員報告因為這個是一個宣導型的一個活動那我昨天也特別跟我們的主辦的這個市長討論說我們辦這個活動或是說我們國人的剩食大概量是多少有沒有一個更好的指標能夠來做確定那當然我們因為知道這個洗食跟食農教育是有關所以我也主動提出來說因為食農教育是農業部在主責未來我們希望在能夠針對這個源頭講的部分特別是食物浪費的部分\n\n05:56.827 --> 06:13.646\n這個也是保護地球的一種方式特別是在資源匱乏的時候所以我們會更積極的來處理因為目前我必須坦誠這個是一個活動活動型的活動鼓勵大家但是真的減了多少的量我還不知道所以我必須要用更好的方法來解決\n\n06:14.167 --> 06:27.476\n是的確這是一個永續理念的一種推廣也希望能夠將來落實那我們來看其他國家怎麼處理好的比如說在韓國韓國的這個廚餘的處理方式呢他是用\n\n06:28.298 --> 06:46.963\n劑量付費的原則就是你儲餘量越多你就要繳更多的費用來協助政府或者是協助相關的機關把這個部分能夠更有好的經費來處理這是韓國有的經驗這是一種可以達成導演作用的一個做法\n\n06:48.124 --> 07:10.906\n比較特別的反而是法國法國在2016年他們就定立了反食品浪費法他們的做法就是要求禁止就是該法禁止面積超過400平方公尺的大型超市銷毀或者是丟棄可食用的食物取而代之的是強制要求跟食物原住的組織包括食物銀行等\n\n07:11.346 --> 07:30.068\n慈善機關他們會先訂立一個捐贈的協議再分配那如果不遵守這個法律的經營者將被處以罰款這個是他們當初執行的時候那後來他們將集體的差點不管是監獄醫院或者學校都把它納為其中的一環\n\n07:31.209 --> 07:49.709\n希望能夠要求去做食物浪費的診斷因為你有診斷知道怎麼處理才能夠有效的去把這個食物浪費減少這個是他們曾經正在執行當中的一些內容這個是可以當作一個參考的部分\n\n07:50.249 --> 07:59.897\n不知道這部分環境部甚至包括農業部可不可以一起來研議如果國外有相關的經驗的話台灣如何能夠借用國外的經驗來做後續的處理\n\n08:01.823 --> 08:27.037\n好謝謝委員這非常好的建議因為法國這個法我六月的時候剛好到法國有當面問他們的官員這個法實際上執行的狀況那我們會密切注意那也跟委員報告因為我們現在也在推一個資源循環的推動法那其實也會把這個觀念放在這個法裡面也希望委員到時候可以來支持做這個事情因為這個是避免食物浪費很重要的法規上面訂定的一個一環\n\n08:27.537 --> 08:51.782\n是太好了我們會除了積極來互相討論以外我們希望這個法律能夠順利經過大家共同討論來支持是好謝謝那最後有關於這個處以爭主的申報系統跟稽查長我想今天已經非常多的委員針對於相關的這個內容做了相關的槌尋那部長也都有意義來做說明\n\n08:52.322 --> 09:07.123\n那我們也看到的確的確還是有將近一半左右他沒有辦法要依照好的規定來做稽核稽查那這部分我覺得是不是\n\n09:08.044 --> 09:26.349\n部長這邊有可以更有強力的一些作為來協助地方政府在這個處理過程當中如果他們無法去稽查有什麼特別原因或者是這個當中如果又有其他新的破口出來造成的問題部長這邊能不能更有更積極的作為來協助處理這一塊\n\n09:28.909 --> 09:55.976\n報告委員因為這個是108年一直到現在剛好今年我們也嘗試進行一些感測器溫度計在這個鍋爐甚至還有CCTV直接即時的監控目前我們有測試過了某一個廠然後其實執行的效果蠻好的而且這樣就避免說他到底有沒有去稽查我們會更有強制的力量也可以幫地方政府來做這個事所以我們正在研議如果未來還是必須靠廚藝真主的話\n\n09:56.556 --> 10:14.084\n我們就強烈建議要導入這套的系統是期待就是說如果民眾能夠掌握類似的訊息我相信地方住管機關也會比較有壓力所以我們希望把這個訊息能夠不斷的或者是甚至是每天能夠讓透過媒體朋友的一些報導\n\n10:15.705 --> 10:29.690\n讓民眾知道現在的狀況那也希望地方政府能夠充分的來配合要求所有的這個養豬場或者是相關的處理都可以如期如大家共同努力的方向好沒有問題謝謝委員請部長謝謝幫忙謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.342,"end":32.975,"text":"好 謝謝主席好 謝謝有請彭部長來 請部長部長好王委員好是在還沒有請教部長之前剛好一直提到有關廚餘機嘛事實上像大型的公務機關比如說立法院好了立法院如果有一部商用的廚餘機應該是大家會很高興"},{"start":33.995,"end":51.443,"text":"不管是立法院啊或者是行政院甚至其他的公務機關如果能夠適當的請這些部分來處理的話應該是可以讓大家集中在用餐以後這些處理能夠有好的地方來來處理那這個祖密可以幫忙反映嗎"},{"start":54.289,"end":77.185,"text":"還是我們有其他的管道也報告委員上次有委員建議說我們的廁所衛生紙不能丟那我們就有來輔導了然後現在立法院衛生紙可以丟馬桶了那可能委員提出質疑我們就協助來辦理OK 好 太好了這樣的話我相信對於處理減量會有很大的幫助"},{"start":77.805,"end":94.454,"text":"所以今天就根據召委所排的主題來跟部長討論一下我相信今天已經講了非常非常的多不過希望也能夠有機會提供一點意見再讓部長做參考第一個部分就是提升出於區劃量能跟再利用的成效"},{"start":95.695,"end":113.622,"text":"其實我們也知道過去這幾年來7年來家戶廚餘其實這個量變動並不大都維持在50萬噸左右其中就是會有40%是用來做養豬另外有45%是用來堆肥"},{"start":114.622,"end":131.691,"text":"我們看到比較好的就是從過去的很少量是用來做其他的部分再利用的地方已經增長到11.4%這部分的確我相信環境部這邊其實非常用心的在處理"},{"start":132.091,"end":145.099,"text":"那其中包括黑水盲處理的廚餘每一年去年就有1萬噸佔了整體在利用的1.9%那今天這個部長的口頭報告裡面也都講得非常清楚那其實"},{"start":146.678,"end":161.208,"text":"如果再把這個四葉廚餘再加進來的話有關於飼料化處理就從四層變成了六層那代表著說我們的四葉廚餘其實很多都會把它變成一個廚餘的部分"},{"start":162.589,"end":180.252,"text":"其實我們剛剛部長有提到這個廚餘量這麼大其實養豬除了讓豬當飼料以外很大一部分就是希望能夠讓這個在處理廚餘過程當中是一個很好的減量的一種方式這個我們也可以理解"},{"start":181.393,"end":200.913,"text":"不過如果能夠有更好的方式的話尤其如果要目標是未來不要把它當作一個出於去養豬的話可能我們很多很多的事情都要持續的來努力那去年應該說今年五月跟七月裡面我們也分別在環境部跟農業部請"},{"start":203.816,"end":225.825,"text":"兩個部會一起來努力以黑水盲來處理不管是PFAS或者是食品廢棄物處理相關的成效的部分那個時候兩個部會都有表示說依據相關的目標來持續推動政策跟鬆綁相關的法律規範請問目前兩個部會的這個"},{"start":228.526,"end":256.375,"text":"討論平台有沒有實際的鑑度那如何能夠更有效率的來促成這部分不知道部長這邊有沒有可以來做進一步說明的地方包委 因為趁這次的這個廚藝的事情我們我也主動跟陳部長說我們要加速來完成這個事情例如說如何訂定可以做當成飼料例如說他吃什麼可以變成飼料什麼這個要有一個更好的一個明確的規範我相信"},{"start":257.095,"end":284.02,"text":"我們會加速來完成這些事情因為黑水盲的確是一個很有效有潛力的一個措施啦那這個部分呢我們會再跟農業部在最後的再確認我們希望能夠樂觀啟程這個可以趕快發展起來一個月或者是到年底方便給我們報告好 我也到年底好不好因為我們最近真的很趕 了解了解好那就麻煩在年底的時候"},{"start":285.109,"end":310.182,"text":"給我們一份相關的那個研議的報告那再過來就是講到這個預防並減少食物浪費那部長一直強調這個源頭減量才是最好的選擇我相信大家都可以認同這個部分那我們有沒有什麼更具體的因應政策這邊我們看到的就是已經進入了三年的有關於一個環境教育活動"},{"start":310.922,"end":326.134,"text":"就是起始來簡除於有一個競賽叫做首席廚師競賽看起來好像辦得非常的熱絡而且它的總獎金是75萬元裡面有所謂的十大行動的理念部長不曉得有沒有去參與這樣的活動有"},{"start":329.196,"end":356.207,"text":"那也跟委員報告因為這個是一個宣導型的一個活動那我昨天也特別跟我們的主辦的這個市長討論說我們辦這個活動或是說我們國人的剩食大概量是多少有沒有一個更好的指標能夠來做確定那當然我們因為知道這個洗食跟食農教育是有關所以我也主動提出來說因為食農教育是農業部在主責未來我們希望在能夠針對這個源頭講的部分特別是食物浪費的部分"},{"start":356.827,"end":373.646,"text":"這個也是保護地球的一種方式特別是在資源匱乏的時候所以我們會更積極的來處理因為目前我必須坦誠這個是一個活動 活動型的活動鼓勵大家 但是真的減了多少的量我還不知道所以我必須要用更好的方法來解決"},{"start":374.167,"end":387.476,"text":"是的確這是一個永續理念的一種推廣也希望能夠將來落實那我們來看其他國家怎麼處理好的比如說在韓國韓國的這個廚餘的處理方式呢他是用"},{"start":388.298,"end":406.963,"text":"劑量付費的原則就是你儲餘量越多你就要繳更多的費用來協助政府或者是協助相關的機關把這個部分能夠更有好的經費來處理這是韓國有的經驗這是一種可以達成導演作用的一個做法"},{"start":408.124,"end":430.906,"text":"比較特別的反而是法國法國在2016年他們就定立了反食品浪費法他們的做法就是要求禁止就是該法禁止面積超過400平方公尺的大型超市銷毀或者是丟棄可食用的食物取而代之的是強制要求跟食物原住的組織包括食物銀行等"},{"start":431.346,"end":450.068,"text":"慈善機關他們會先訂立一個捐贈的協議再分配那如果不遵守這個法律的經營者將被處以罰款這個是他們當初執行的時候那後來他們將集體的差點不管是監獄 醫院或者學校都把它納為其中的一環"},{"start":451.209,"end":469.709,"text":"希望能夠要求去做食物浪費的診斷因為你有診斷 知道怎麼處理才能夠有效的去把這個食物浪費減少這個是他們曾經正在執行當中的一些內容這個是可以當作一個參考的部分"},{"start":470.249,"end":479.897,"text":"不知道這部分環境部甚至包括農業部可不可以一起來研議如果國外有相關的經驗的話台灣如何能夠借用國外的經驗來做後續的處理"},{"start":481.823,"end":507.037,"text":"好 謝謝委員 這非常好的建議因為法國這個法我六月的時候剛好到法國有當面問他們的官員這個法實際上執行的狀況那我們會密切注意那也跟委員報告因為我們現在也在推一個資源循環的推動法那其實也會把這個觀念放在這個法裡面也希望委員到時候可以來支持做這個事情因為這個是避免食物浪費很重要的法規上面訂定的一個一環"},{"start":507.537,"end":531.782,"text":"是太好了我們會除了積極來互相討論以外我們希望這個法律能夠順利經過大家共同討論來支持是好謝謝那最後有關於這個處以爭主的申報系統跟稽查長我想今天已經非常多的委員針對於相關的這個內容做了相關的槌尋那部長也都有意義來做說明"},{"start":532.322,"end":547.123,"text":"那我們也看到的確的確還是有將近一半左右他沒有辦法要依照好的規定來做稽核稽查那這部分我覺得是不是"},{"start":548.044,"end":566.349,"text":"部長這邊有可以更有強力的一些作為來協助地方政府在這個處理過程當中如果他們無法去稽查有什麼特別原因或者是這個當中如果又有其他新的破口出來造成的問題部長這邊能不能更有更積極的作為來協助處理這一塊"},{"start":568.909,"end":595.976,"text":"報告委員因為這個是108年一直到現在剛好今年我們也嘗試進行一些感測器溫度計在這個鍋爐甚至還有CCTV直接即時的監控目前我們有測試過了某一個廠然後其實執行的效果蠻好的而且這樣就避免說他到底有沒有去稽查我們會更有強制的力量也可以幫地方政府來做這個事所以我們正在研議如果未來還是必須靠廚藝真主的話"},{"start":596.556,"end":614.084,"text":"我們就強烈建議要導入這套的系統是 期待就是說如果民眾能夠掌握類似的訊息我相信地方住管機關也會比較有壓力所以我們希望把這個訊息能夠不斷的或者是甚至是每天能夠讓透過媒體朋友的一些報導"},{"start":615.705,"end":629.69,"text":"讓民眾知道現在的狀況那也希望地方政府能夠充分的來配合要求所有的這個養豬場或者是相關的處理都可以如期如大家共同努力的方向好沒有問題謝謝委員請部長謝謝幫忙謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1142,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（12時32分）謝謝主席，有請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["王委員正旭：部長好。"],["彭部長啓明：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：還沒有請教部長之前，剛好有提到廚餘機，事實上像大型的公務機關，比如說立法院好了，立法院如果有一部商用的廚餘機，大家應該會很高興。不管是立法院或行政院，甚至其他的公務機關，如果有適當處理的話，大家集中用餐以後的廚餘能夠有好的地方來處理，這個主秘可以幫忙反映嗎？還是有其他的管道？"],["彭部長啓明：也報告委員，上次有委員建議廁所不能丟衛生紙，我們就有來輔導了，現在立法院衛生紙可以丟馬桶。委員提出質疑，我們就協助來辦理。"],["王委員正旭：OK，太好了，這樣我相信對於廚餘減量會有很大的幫助。今天就根據召委所排的主題，來跟部長討論一下。我相信今天已經講的非常非常多，不過我希望也能有機會提供一點意見再讓部長做參考。","第一個部分是提升廚餘去化量能及再利用成效。其實我們也知道過去這7年來家戶廚餘量的變動並不大，維持在50萬噸左右，其中有40%用來養豬，另外有45%是用來堆肥。我們看到比較好的是，過去很少量的其他再利用的部分已經成長到11.4%，這部分我相信環境部的確非常用心的在處理。其中包括黑水虻處理的廚餘，去年就有1萬噸，占了整體再利用的1.9%。今天部長的口頭報告裡也都講得非常清楚，如果再把事業廚餘加進來的話，有關於飼料化處理就從四成變成了六成，代表事業廚餘很多都會變成飼料。","剛剛部長也有提到，廚餘量這麼大，除了讓豬當飼料以外，很大一部分希望能夠在處理廚餘過程中成為很好的減量方式，這個我們也可以理解。不過如果能夠有更好的方式，尤其未來目標是不要把它當作養豬廚餘的話，可能有很多很多事情都要持續來努力。今年5月跟7月，我們也分別請環境部跟農業部兩個部會一起來努力，以黑水虻來處理，不管是PFAS，或者是食品廢棄物處理的相關成效。那個時候兩個部會都有表示依據目標來持續推動政策跟鬆綁相關的法律規範，請問目前兩個部會的討論平台有沒有實際的進度？如何能夠更有效率的來促成這部分，不知道部長這邊有沒有可以做進一步說明的地方？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，趁這次廚餘的事情，我們也主動跟陳部長說要加速來完成這個事情，例如如何訂定它可以當成飼料，例如它吃什麼可以變成飼料，這要有一個更好的明確規範，我相信我們會加速來完成這個事情。因為黑水虻的確是一個很有效、有潛力的措施，我們會再跟農業部再做最後確認，我們希望能夠樂觀其成，可以趕快發展起來。"],["王委員正旭：一個月或者是到年底，方便給我們報告嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，到年底好不好？因為我們最近真的很趕。"],["王委員正旭：了解、了解。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：好，那就麻煩在年底給我們一份相關的研議報告。","再來就是講到預防並減少食物浪費，部長一直強調源頭減量才是最好的選擇，我相信大家都可以認同這個部分，那我們有沒有什麼更具體的因應政策？我這邊看到有一個已經辦理三年的環境教育活動惜食減廚餘，有一個競賽叫做「首惜廚師競賽」，看起來好像辦得非常熱絡，而且總獎金是75萬元，裡面有所謂的十大行動理念，不曉得部長有沒有去參與這樣的活動？"],["彭部長啓明：有、有。"],["王委員正旭：有喔。"],["彭部長啓明：對。也跟委員報告，因為這是一個宣導型的活動，我昨天也特別跟主辦的司長討論，我們辦這個活動，或是國人的剩食量大概是多少，有沒有一個更好的指標能夠來確定，當然我們知道惜食跟食農教育有關，所以我也主動提出來，因為食農教育是農業部在主責，未來我們希望能夠針對源頭減量，特別是食物浪費的部分，這也是保護地球的一種方式，特別是在資源匱乏的時候，所以我們會更積極的來處理。目前我必須坦誠，這是一個活動，活動型的活動，鼓勵大家，但是真的減了多少的量，我們還不知道，所以我必須要用更好的方法來解決。"],["王委員正旭：是，的確這是一個永續理念的推廣，也希望將來能夠落實。","我們來看其他國家怎麼處理好了。比如在韓國，韓國廚餘的處理方式是用計量付費的原則，就是廚餘量越多，就要繳更多的費用……"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["王委員正旭：來協助政府或者是相關的機關，能夠有更好的經費來處理，這是韓國的經驗，是一種可以達成導引作用的做法。比較特別的好像是法國，法國在2016年就訂定反食品浪費法，他們的做法就是該法禁止面積超過400平方公尺的大型超市銷毀或丟棄可食用的食物，取而代之的是強制要求跟食物援助組織（包括食物銀行等）、慈善機關先簽訂捐贈協議，做再分配，如果不遵守該法律的經營者將被處以罰款，這是當初執行的方式，後來他們更積極將集體餐飲，不管是監獄、醫院或學校，都納為其中的一環，希望要求對食物浪費進行診斷，因為有診斷，知道怎麼處理，才能夠有效減少食物的浪費。這些是他們曾經或正在執行中的內容，可以當作參考。不知道有關這部分，環境部甚至包括農業部可不可以一起來研議，如果國外有相關經驗的話，臺灣如何借用國外的經驗做後續處理？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，這是非常好的建議。因為我六月的時候剛好到法國，有當面問他們的官員這個法的實際執行狀況，這部分我們會密切注意。也向委員報告，因為我們現在也在推動資源循環推動法，其實也會把這個觀念放在這個法裡面，也希望委員到時候可以支持做這個事情，因為這對避免食物浪費是很重要的，在法規訂定這一環。"],["王委員正旭：是，太好了。除了積極互相討論以外，我們希望這個法律能夠順利推動，大家共同討論後能夠支持，謝謝。最後是有關廚餘蒸煮申報系統和稽查掌握，我想今天已經有非常多委員針對相關內容做垂詢，部長也都有一一說明。我們也看到，的確還是有將近一半左右，沒有辦法依照規定做稽核、稽查，這部分部長是否可以提出一些更強力的作為協助地方政府？","在這個處理過程當中，如果他們無法去稽查，例如有什麼特別原因，或者是在這當中，如果又有其他新的破口造成問題，部長能不能有更積極的作為去協助處理這一塊？"],["彭部長啓明：因為這是從108年一直執行到現在，剛好今年我們也嘗試進行一些作為，例如裝設感測器、溫度計在鍋爐上，甚至還有CCTV做直接、即時的監控。我們有測試過某一個場，其實執行效果滿好的，而且這樣能避免他們沒有去做稽查，我們會更有強制的力量，也可以幫地方政府做這個事，所以我們正在研議，如果未來還是必須做廚餘蒸煮的話，我們就會強烈建議導入這套系統。"],["王委員正旭：是，我們期待。如果民眾能夠掌握類似的訊息，我相信地方主管機關也會比較有壓力，所以我們希望這個訊息能夠不斷發布，甚至是每天都能夠透過媒體朋友的報導，讓民眾知道現在的狀況，也希望地方政府能夠充分配合，並要求所有的養豬場，相關的處理都可以如期執行，大家共同努力。"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒有問題，謝謝委員。"],["王委員正旭：請部長繼續幫忙，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員的詢答。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：下一位請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","陳瑩","陳素月","謝龍介","王鴻薇","徐富癸","王正旭","涂權吉","楊曜","吳沛憶","牛煦庭","盧縣一","何欣純","范雲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴\n散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查( 一) 行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四\n十九條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員魯明哲等16 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等\n19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉\n玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十\n二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員劉建國等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第\n六條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十五) 委員沈發惠等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏\n等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人\n擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員林淑芬等21人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分\n條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)\n委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修\n正草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149002_00001"}}}