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因為非洲豬瘟的必死豬只有一條就是我們現在發現的齁 就是檢測那其他的不是其他的現在我們在疫調的過程中齁發現的齁 那都是必死豬 就是說不是感染而引起的死亡的蜘蛛但是我們去抽檢都是陰性它都不是非洲豬瘟所以目前查到有非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭就是檢測的只有一條那其他的那個場 其他的還沒有檢測出來對 那個場全部撲殺嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 335.647, \"end\": 335.827, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 335.827, \"end\": 336.328, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 336.328, \"end\": 336.588, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 336.588, \"end\": 336.688, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"洲\", \"start\": 336.688, \"end\": 336.828, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"瘟\", \"start\": 336.828, \"end\": 336.988, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 336.988, \"end\": 337.128, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 337.128, \"end\": 337.248, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 337.248, \"end\": 337.408, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 337.408, \"end\": 337.568, 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839.555, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"殖\", \"start\": 839.555, \"end\": 839.635, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 839.635, \"end\": 839.936, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 839.936, \"end\": 840.577, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 840.577, \"end\": 840.937, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 840.937, \"end\": 841.458, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"輔\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 841.458, \"end\": 841.658, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 841.658, \"end\": 841.798, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 841.798, \"end\": 841.998, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"珍\", \"start\": 841.998, \"end\": 842.178, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"珠\", \"start\": 842.178, \"end\": 842.319, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 842.319, \"end\": 842.539, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 842.539, \"end\": 842.679, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 842.679, \"end\": 842.819, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 842.819, \"end\": 842.999, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 842.999, \"end\": 843.6, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 843.6, \"end\": 843.78, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 843.78, \"end\": 844.121, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 844.121, \"end\": 844.221, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 844.221, \"end\": 844.381, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 844.381, \"end\": 844.541, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 844.541, \"end\": 844.681, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 844.681, \"end\": 844.842, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 844.842, \"end\": 845.022, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 845.022, \"end\": 845.402, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 845.402, \"end\": 845.602, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 845.602, \"end\": 845.863, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 845.863, \"end\": 846.143, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 846.143, \"end\": 846.423, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 846.423, \"end\": 846.664, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 846.664, \"end\": 846.784, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 846.784, \"end\": 847.184, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 847.184, \"end\": 847.445, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"馮\"}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 847.445, \"end\": 847.565, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 847.565, \"end\": 847.685, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 847.685, \"end\": 847.825, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 847.825, \"end\": 847.845, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,530 --> 00:00:10,872\n好謝謝主席那先請陳部長先請農業部陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:20,367 --> 00:00:36,765\n陳部長那在10月26號記者會你本來說第二天就可以提出完整的補助方案那後來又說要改要一週所以是不是確定下週一可以提出完整的補助方案\n\n3\n00:00:37,245 --> 00:00:53,940\n我想我跟委員說明就是當初我記得沒有錯的話當初在這個方案裡面只針對一個小環節那我們後來考慮到就是整個豬產業不是只有特定的一個環節受到影響所以我才會請我們的同事\n\n4\n00:00:54,580 --> 00:01:17,389\n要把整個租的一級的產業鏈都把它評估出來那這樣的話我們在這個疫情期間受影響的這些從業人員我們才能夠讓他們有一些比較安心所以在這個禮拜六最慢這個禮拜六之前我們就會完整的方案做公佈因為整個方案的公佈還要經過行政院先同意嘛因為需要一些經費\n\n5\n00:01:18,689 --> 00:01:32,372\n好那而且昨天總質詢的時候本席有問到就是有請我們部長幫忙針對豬農短期飼料補助那部長好像也說這部分我想我們有納入我們的方案裡面\n\n6\n00:01:33,311 --> 00:01:52,186\n有纳入我们的方案里面有纳入嘛所以也希望因为这次非洲猪瘟也来得很快那台湾这次碰到这样也对猪农有很大的影响我们希望这补助公布的速度也要快然后尽量补助能够全面来减少猪农这么大的损失\n\n7\n00:01:52,686 --> 00:02:09,995\n我剛才說了我們就是在租產業鏈的一級生產鏈我們都會來協助處理所以盡量層面做大嘛減少他們的損失那還有我們非洲豬瘟爆發到現在那我們10月27號\n\n8\n00:02:11,823 --> 00:02:35,200\n我們有開了應變中心有開第39次的會議對不對因為應變中心我們每天開會議我們每天開10月27要開第39次嘛對不對我可能要確認一下好沒關係那後來網路上因為現在還沒有公佈說他非洲豬瘟的原因現在原因還沒有找到對不對\n\n9\n00:02:36,181 --> 00:03:02,678\n我想我們因為照整個案例場的一個權責是由台中市政府要進行疫調那台中市政府在疫調的過程中有一些必須釐清的所以還會不斷地去調查那美伊士的中央應變中心因為中央應變中心除了台中市以外是全台灣各縣市的所有的農業行政的首長或代表會參加那他們也在一直在關心整個案情的發展\n\n10\n00:03:03,038 --> 00:03:30,208\n所以我們會把相關的這些工作會跟我們的工作會議裡面去會討論跟處理我們也希望這個原因趕快找出來不然其實現在網路上因為民眾很恐慌那網路上也議論紛紛一下說越南配偶也有說陸配也有人說什麼為了萊豬的進口那所以我們要找出這原因現在多久可以完成基因序列的定序\n\n11\n00:03:32,041 --> 00:04:00,628\n這個檢測什麼時候可以完成禮拜五禮拜五可以完成不過我要先跟委員報告基因定序完你也不能說這個是中國來的這個是越南來的這個沒有辦法他定序完只是說跟哪一國的株枝基因序列相似這個有他的複雜性因為你要做比對的時候一定要那個國家把他的基因序列上網我們才能夠比對可是很可惜的中國的所有的基因序列他都不上網\n\n12\n00:04:02,473 --> 00:04:17,225\n所以沒有辦法核對所以我們只知道這個基因的序列那可能這個基因裡面可能是不是有一些有一些重組或其他的部分對這個了解所以就算定序之後也沒有辦法證明是哪一個國家沒有辦法證明這沒辦法證明\n\n13\n00:04:18,165 --> 00:04:47,045\n那到時候這個原因可能還是不容易找到真的因為肥肉豬瘟有可能是除於有可能是人的接觸有沒有到國外的案場有沒有發病的這些場畜牧場然後從這個衣服或是什麼東西攜帶進來的都有可能啦所以我們必須要用排除的方式也好或用確認的方式也好去釐清對因為我們也是希望這個發生的原因盡量找到以後才有辦法去遏止\n\n14\n00:04:48,025 --> 00:05:04,480\n對我們現在的疫調其實還有一個重點除了趕快找到可能的來源以外更重要就是說在這個疫調過程中可以了解我們整個防疫系統裡面哪一些還可以去做精進的這個才是一個重點好那我們現在染疫死亡的株質處理方式\n\n15\n00:05:06,323 --> 00:05:34,486\n染疫就是一條染疫就是那一頭那其他的都是必死豬就是因為豬是在飼養過程中他可能因為管理不當或者可能其他的疾病那這些疾病都不是法定的傳染病的部分那一般來講是可以送到化製廠或者是焚燒也可以或者是掩埋有它的三種模式然後根據它當地的本身的條件而決定但是我要再強調它不是非洲豬瘟的\n\n16\n00:05:35,647 --> 00:06:03,722\n並必死豬因為非洲豬瘟的必死豬只有一條就是我們現在發現的齁就是檢測那其他的不是其他的現在我們在疫調的過程中齁發現的齁那都是必死豬就是說不是感染而引起的死亡的蜘蛛但是我們去抽檢都是陰性它都不是非洲豬瘟所以目前查到有非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭就是檢測的只有一條那其他的那個場其他的還沒有檢測出來對那個場全部撲殺嘛\n\n17\n00:06:05,622 --> 00:06:23,534\n全部撲殺所以其他的場域我們檢測出來的有沒有我們在公布的時候檢測出來的都是一般的正常的有疾病的死亡但是不是非洲豬瘟染病而死亡的所以那個場的全部撲殺之後最後是掩埋是不是對那個是因為緊急撲殺而掩埋\n\n18\n00:06:24,995 --> 00:06:51,961\n那掩埋的地點應該後來應該都有管理吧沒有這個掩埋地點就是其實在平常的規劃裡面就已經確認在那個地點了因為非洲豬屋我們有一個團隊中央應變中心一直持續在溫泉從108年開始我們沒有間斷每年都開三到四次會所以在那個時候就有預定了萬一有問題發生的時候在哪邊掩埋掩埋怎麼掩埋的所有的程序都是按照那個方式來做\n\n19\n00:06:52,761 --> 00:07:06,031\n對所以也管理好不會有以後再擴散的問題對所以現在是鎖定在這個案場啊沒有其他外擴的跡象我們只能這樣講好所以都是對掩埋場都有管理嘛是好那\n\n20\n00:07:06,977 --> 00:07:30,268\n我們記得我們在2018年農業部好像就超前部署針對各種非洲豬瘟防疫管理措施好像就已經有超前部署所以到現在應該算一算也有七年了吧對那我們這七年到底做了什麼怎麼感覺非洲豬瘟一來好像大家很多事情還沒有準備好\n\n21\n00:07:31,148 --> 00:07:56,166\n我跟各位報告跟委員報告就是我們在107年成立中央應變中心的時候我們就沒有說結束就一直持續著那在這個過程中其實因為台灣是沒有非洲豬瘟的疫區非洲豬瘟疫區所以都沒有非洲豬瘟的前提之下我們的重點是在邊境的防治防疫就是將病毒阻絕於境外那這個部分\n\n22\n00:07:56,846 --> 00:08:16,619\n特別是針對我們的手提行李人員旅客的這些後送行李郵包郵件還有走私的茶器所以一直在強調這個所以我們在歷次的成果對外宣布的時候就是我們的確也檢測到一些高風險疫區來的這些肉製品是含有非肉質溫的病毒\n\n23\n00:08:17,379 --> 00:08:34,205\n所以我們是重點是在防疫就是阻絕於境外那這次是第一次我們發現到這個案例那這個案例本身其實我們有演練包括您剛才講的遇到了以後在哪邊哪邊去掩埋有沒有怎麼掩埋方法其實我們都有演練\n\n24\n00:08:35,285 --> 00:08:57,762\n對所以我希望說居然從2018年我們就有再開始來做超前部署所以針對這些發生以後這些後續這些問題包含廚餘啊還有這些豬隻掩埋然後民眾該怎麼去應對應該要有一個指引不然民眾會造成相當的恐慌我想我們這個指引其實都有現在\n\n25\n00:08:58,743 --> 00:09:23,269\n比較看到比較一些比較弱的地方就是疫調的部分那其他的針對關聯廠的調查有沒有去採樣去檢測包括全國的我相信現在目前做的他們現在做的是還符合他們規定所以我也希望農業部在這一方面盡量多宣傳讓民眾去了解有些不必要的恐慌避免民眾因為不了解造成恐慌\n\n26\n00:09:23,849 --> 00:09:46,409\n那所以有一些指引民眾該怎麼去面對怎麼去處理怎麼面對還是說怎麼去觀察的外觀等等應該要教育一下我們的民眾對我想分兩個層次一個層次是消費者一個層次是豬農啦那消費者就是放心的吃豬肉很多人現在很多影片說現在可能這個豬肉吃了會怎樣我覺得這個是錯假訊息我們一直在處理\n\n27\n00:09:47,229 --> 00:09:56,621\n對所以這個就是該教育的對那個另外一個部分是豬籠的部分那豬籠的部分本身的這些可能疑似案例跟那個胸腺肺炎是不是\n\n28\n00:09:58,119 --> 00:10:16,582\n圖卡的部分我們都有給豬農去做這些判試加強他們的判試所以我說居然從2018我們就開始有超前部署像這些我們當初已經有規劃的包含豬農消費者的部分一定要先讓他們知道對我們持續在做謝謝委員提醒好那我們現在因為\n\n29\n00:10:17,935 --> 00:10:34,330\n非洲豬瘟它有潛伏期冷凍豬肉可以100天冷藏豬肉100天冷凍豬肉可以到1000天那我們現在擔心是說你15天的禁令萬一15天以後又還有是不是15天又15天那這個時間是不是會一直延長下去\n\n30\n00:10:35,351 --> 00:10:49,260\n我們在整個處理這個應變的部分就是這個案例場發生發生我們用15天的禁運的目的就是說可能的傳播鏈我們要把它截斷這樣的話我們去找\n\n31\n00:10:50,200 --> 00:11:17,367\n除了這個案例場以外其他的案例場有沒有同時發生那第一輪的疫調裡面我們很幸運的覺得說這個案例場並沒有擴散的跡象但是現在還在潛伏期不敢這樣百分之百想說因為我們現在擔心說我們現在是禁載禁運而且禁用廚餘嘛那所以現在禁用廚餘我相信今天大家都討論很多廚餘的部分怎麼去處理所以這一部分可能要請我們環境部彭部長\n\n32\n00:11:19,687 --> 00:11:38,843\n好那陳部長那你就請回我問一下彭部長請彭部長副委員好好彭部長那針對我們廚餘去化的方式其實昨天本席有總諮詢問行政院院長其實他也說他不滿意現在廚餘的處理方式那請問部長有什麼想法\n\n33\n00:11:39,623 --> 00:12:02,337\n包委員因為我必須感謝過去養豬可以解決很多廚藝的問題未來不管這個廚藝怎麼去去化這個廚藝可不可以拿來養豬其實現在其實我覺得還是有一些更好的方法如果說還是有珍珠的一個方式的話珍珠中心是一種方式但是如何對於現有的珍珠能夠加強監控這是我們可以做的\n\n34\n00:12:02,657 --> 00:12:20,443\n那如果未來廚藝不養豬它可能是要有一段時間那這個時候就要想辦法把廚藝的例如說生殖能源黑水盲或是各種堆肥的所謂的量能把它盤點算出來要有一段時間我們是鼓勵這樣的措施的對但是我們現在大部分\n\n35\n00:12:21,583 --> 00:12:38,131\n現在那麼多處理好像很多都是用掩埋的方式處理對不對目前在緊急狀況下有些縣市它的量能不夠他只好用掩埋的方式做處理所以行政院長對於就是因為現在大部分都用掩埋方式所以他是不埋\n\n36\n00:12:38,231 --> 00:12:53,264\n沒有沒有委員大概就是台中啦台中是比較多啦那台中也宣布說他們用現在要進到焚化廠那部長剛剛也有提到喔那就是生殖能處理廠還有真主中心等等都是一個很好的方式嘛是\n\n37\n00:12:53,564 --> 00:13:11,118\n那現在因為現在發生這個事情之後我相信現在連地方政府大家都非常的重視那是不是環境部針對我們生食能處理廠還有珍屬中心是不是能夠支持甚至補助經費讓他們去做這些的設備\n\n38\n00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:27,320\n報委員這個其實不見得是我們要經費補助這個經過一些設計生態系的建立之後其實是可以用BOT的方式能夠建立起來像桃園的那個生殖能中心就是這樣的一個案例不見得是政府要拿很多錢出來對啊那至少要\n\n39\n00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:54,291\n怎麼去輔導他們去做我們是期待有更多但是跟委員報告因為像這樣的措施很容易變成是嫌惡設施所以這個部分也需要跟民眾那當然地方政府一定要有這個意願能夠來做不然的話我們想做也做不出來好所以針對這部分現在非洲豬瘟發生大家就重視到廚藥的問題所以希望部長我們來加速來嚴寧怎麼樣處理廚藥的問題\n\n40\n00:13:56,832 --> 00:14:07,845\n那這些我們該怎麼去輔導他去做生殖能處理場怎麼去輔導他去做珍珠中心我相信環境部還是要大力的去推動去支持是是沒問題好謝謝好謝謝馮董那接下來請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8530\t10872\t好 謝謝主席那先請陳部長先請農業部陳部長\n20367\t36765\t陳部長那在10月26號記者會你本來說第二天就可以提出完整的補助方案那後來又說要改要一週所以是不是確定下週一可以提出完整的補助方案\n37245\t53940\t我想我跟委員說明就是當初我記得沒有錯的話當初在這個方案裡面只針對一個小環節那我們後來考慮到就是整個豬產業不是只有特定的一個環節受到影響所以我才會請我們的同事\n54580\t77389\t要把整個租的一級的產業鏈都把它評估出來那這樣的話我們在這個疫情期間受影響的這些從業人員我們才能夠讓他們有一些比較安心所以在這個禮拜六最慢這個禮拜六之前我們就會完整的方案做公佈因為整個方案的公佈還要經過行政院先同意嘛因為需要一些經費\n78689\t92372\t好 那而且昨天總質詢的時候本席有問到就是有請我們部長幫忙針對豬農短期飼料補助那部長好像也說這部分我想我們有納入我們的方案裡面\n93311\t112186\t有纳入我们的方案里面有纳入嘛所以也希望因为这次非洲猪瘟也来得很快那台湾这次碰到这样也对猪农有很大的影响我们希望这补助公布的速度也要快然后尽量补助能够全面来减少猪农这么大的损失\n112686\t129995\t我剛才說了我們就是在租產業鏈的一級生產鏈我們都會來協助處理所以盡量層面做大嘛減少他們的損失那還有我們非洲豬瘟爆發到現在那我們10月27號\n131823\t155200\t我們有開了應變中心有開第39次的會議對不對因為應變中心我們每天開會議我們每天開10月27要開第39次嘛對不對我可能要確認一下好沒關係那後來網路上因為現在還沒有公佈說他非洲豬瘟的原因現在原因還沒有找到對不對\n156181\t182678\t我想我們因為照整個案例場的一個權責是由台中市政府要進行疫調那台中市政府在疫調的過程中有一些必須釐清的所以還會不斷地去調查那美伊士的中央應變中心因為中央應變中心除了台中市以外是全台灣各縣市的所有的農業行政的首長或代表會參加那他們也在一直在關心整個案情的發展\n183038\t210208\t所以我們會把相關的這些工作會跟我們的工作會議裡面去會討論跟處理我們也希望這個原因趕快找出來不然其實現在網路上因為民眾很恐慌那網路上也議論紛紛一下說越南配偶也有說陸配也有人說什麼為了萊豬的進口那所以我們要找出這原因現在多久可以完成基因序列的定序\n212041\t240628\t這個檢測什麼時候可以完成禮拜五禮拜五可以完成不過我要先跟委員報告基因定序完你也不能說這個是中國來的這個是越南來的這個沒有辦法他定序完只是說跟哪一國的株枝基因序列相似這個有他的複雜性因為你要做比對的時候一定要那個國家把他的基因序列上網我們才能夠比對可是很可惜的中國的所有的基因序列他都不上網\n242473\t257225\t所以沒有辦法核對所以我們只知道這個基因的序列那可能這個基因裡面可能是不是有一些有一些重組或其他的部分對這個了解所以就算定序之後也沒有辦法證明是哪一個國家沒有辦法證明 這沒辦法證明\n258165\t287045\t那到時候這個原因可能還是不容易找到真的 因為肥肉豬瘟有可能是除於有可能是人的接觸有沒有到國外的案場有沒有發病的這些場 畜牧場然後從這個衣服或是什麼東西攜帶進來的都有可能啦所以我們必須要用排除的方式也好或用確認的方式也好去釐清對 因為我們也是希望這個發生的原因盡量找到以後才有辦法去遏止\n288025\t304480\t對 我們現在的疫調其實還有一個重點除了趕快找到可能的來源以外更重要就是說在這個疫調過程中可以了解我們整個防疫系統裡面哪一些還可以去做精進的這個才是一個重點好 那我們現在染疫死亡的株質處理方式\n306323\t334486\t染疫就是一條染疫就是那一頭那其他的都是必死豬就是因為豬是在飼養過程中他可能因為管理不當或者可能其他的疾病那這些疾病都不是法定的傳染病的部分那一般來講是可以送到化製廠或者是焚燒也可以或者是掩埋有它的三種模式然後根據它當地的本身的條件而決定但是我要再強調它不是非洲豬瘟的\n335647\t363722\t並 必死豬 因為非洲豬瘟的必死豬只有一條就是我們現在發現的齁 就是檢測那其他的不是其他的現在我們在疫調的過程中齁發現的齁 那都是必死豬 就是說不是感染而引起的死亡的蜘蛛但是我們去抽檢都是陰性它都不是非洲豬瘟所以目前查到有非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭就是檢測的只有一條那其他的那個場 其他的還沒有檢測出來對 那個場全部撲殺嘛\n365622\t383534\t全部撲殺所以其他的場域我們檢測出來的有沒有我們在公布的時候檢測出來的都是一般的正常的有疾病的死亡但是不是非洲豬瘟染病而死亡的所以那個場的全部撲殺之後最後是掩埋是不是對 那個是因為緊急撲殺而掩埋\n384995\t411961\t那掩埋的地點應該 後來應該都有管理吧沒有 這個掩埋地點就是其實在平常的規劃裡面就已經確認在那個地點了因為非洲豬屋我們有一個團隊中央應變中心一直持續在溫泉從108年開始 我們沒有間斷每年都開三到四次會所以在那個時候就有預定了萬一有問題發生的時候在哪邊掩埋 掩埋怎麼掩埋的所有的程序都是按照那個方式來做\n412761\t426031\t對 所以也管理好不會有以後再擴散的問題對 所以現在是鎖定在這個案場啊沒有其他外擴的跡象我們只能這樣講好 所以都是對掩埋場都有管理嘛是好 那\n426977\t450268\t我們記得我們在2018年農業部好像就超前部署針對各種非洲豬瘟防疫管理措施好像就已經有超前部署所以到現在應該算一算也有七年了吧對那我們這七年到底做了什麼怎麼感覺非洲豬瘟一來好像大家很多事情還沒有準備好\n451148\t476166\t我跟各位報告 跟委員報告就是我們在107年成立中央應變中心的時候我們就沒有說結束就一直持續著那在這個過程中其實因為台灣是沒有非洲豬瘟的疫區非洲豬瘟疫區所以都沒有非洲豬瘟的前提之下我們的重點是在邊境的防治 防疫就是將病毒阻絕於境外那這個部分\n476846\t496619\t特別是針對我們的手提行李人員旅客的這些後送行李郵包郵件還有走私的茶器所以一直在強調這個所以我們在歷次的成果對外宣布的時候就是我們的確也檢測到一些高風險疫區來的這些肉製品是含有非肉質溫的病毒\n497379\t514205\t所以我們是重點是在防疫就是阻絕於境外那這次是第一次我們發現到這個案例那這個案例本身其實我們有演練包括您剛才講的遇到了以後在哪邊哪邊去掩埋有沒有怎麼掩埋方法其實我們都有演練\n515285\t537762\t對 所以我希望說 居然從2018年我們就有再開始來做超前部署所以針對這些發生以後 這些後續這些問題包含廚餘啊 還有這些豬隻掩埋然後民眾該怎麼去應對 應該要有一個指引不然民眾會造成相當的恐慌我想我們這個指引其實都有 現在\n538743\t563269\t比較看到比較一些比較弱的地方就是疫調的部分那其他的針對關聯廠的調查有沒有去採樣去檢測包括全國的我相信現在目前做的他們現在做的是還符合他們規定所以我也希望農業部在這一方面盡量多宣傳讓民眾去了解有些不必要的恐慌避免民眾因為不了解造成恐慌\n563849\t586409\t那所以有一些指引民眾該怎麼去面對 怎麼去處理怎麼面對 還是說怎麼去觀察的外觀等等應該要教育一下我們的民眾對 我想分兩個層次一個層次是消費者 一個層次是豬農啦那消費者就是放心的吃豬肉很多人 現在很多影片說現在可能這個豬肉吃了會怎樣我覺得這個是錯假訊息 我們一直在處理\n587229\t596621\t對 所以這個就是該教育的對 那個另外一個部分是豬籠的部分那豬籠的部分本身的這些可能疑似案例跟那個胸腺肺炎 是不是\n598119\t616582\t圖卡的部分我們都有給豬農去做這些判試加強他們的判試所以我說居然從2018我們就開始有超前部署像這些我們當初已經有規劃的包含豬農消費者的部分一定要先讓他們知道對我們持續在做謝謝委員提醒好那我們現在因為\n617935\t634330\t非洲豬瘟它有潛伏期冷凍豬肉可以100天冷藏豬肉100天冷凍豬肉可以到1000天那我們現在擔心是說你15天的禁令萬一15天以後又還有是不是15天又15天那這個時間是不是會一直延長下去\n635351\t649260\t我們在整個處理這個應變的部分就是這個案例場發生發生我們用15天的禁運的目的就是說可能的傳播鏈我們要把它截斷這樣的話我們去找\n650200\t677367\t除了這個案例場以外其他的案例場有沒有同時發生那第一輪的疫調裡面我們很幸運的覺得說這個案例場並沒有擴散的跡象但是現在還在潛伏期不敢這樣百分之百想說因為我們現在擔心說我們現在是禁載禁運而且禁用廚餘嘛那所以現在禁用廚餘我相信今天大家都討論很多廚餘的部分怎麼去處理所以這一部分可能要請我們環境部彭部長\n679687\t698843\t好 那陳部長 那你就請回我問一下彭部長請彭部長 副委員好好 彭部長 那針對我們廚餘去化的方式其實昨天本席有總諮詢問行政院院長其實他也說他不滿意現在廚餘的處理方式那請問部長有什麼想法\n699623\t722337\t包委員因為我必須感謝過去養豬可以解決很多廚藝的問題未來不管這個廚藝怎麼去去化這個廚藝可不可以拿來養豬其實現在其實我覺得還是有一些更好的方法如果說還是有珍珠的一個方式的話珍珠中心是一種方式但是如何對於現有的珍珠能夠加強監控這是我們可以做的\n722657\t740443\t那如果未來廚藝不養豬它可能是要有一段時間那這個時候就要想辦法把廚藝的例如說生殖能源 黑水盲或是各種堆肥的所謂的量能把它盤點算出來要有一段時間我們是鼓勵這樣的措施的對 但是我們現在大部分\n741583\t758131\t現在那麼多處理好像很多都是用掩埋的方式處理對不對目前在緊急狀況下有些縣市它的量能不夠他只好用掩埋的方式做處理所以行政院長對於就是因為現在大部分都用掩埋方式所以他是不埋\n758231\t773264\t沒有沒有委員大概就是台中啦台中是比較多啦那台中也宣布說他們用現在要進到焚化廠那部長剛剛也有提到喔那就是生殖能處理廠還有真主中心等等都是一個很好的方式嘛是\n773564\t791118\t那現在因為現在發生這個事情之後我相信現在連地方政府大家都非常的重視那是不是環境部針對我們生食能處理廠還有珍屬中心是不是能夠支持甚至補助經費讓他們去做這些的設備\n792840\t807320\t報委員 這個其實不見得是我們要經費補助這個經過一些設計 生態系的建立之後其實是可以用BOT的方式能夠建立起來像桃園的那個生殖能中心就是這樣的一個案例不見得是政府要拿很多錢出來對啊 那至少要\n807620\t834291\t怎麼去輔導他們去做我們是期待有更多但是跟委員報告因為像這樣的措施很容易變成是嫌惡設施所以這個部分也需要跟民眾那當然地方政府一定要有這個意願能夠來做不然的話我們想做也做不出來好 所以針對這部分現在非洲豬瘟發生大家就重視到廚藥的問題所以希望部長我們來加速來嚴寧怎麼樣處理廚藥的問題\n836832\t847845\t那這些我們該怎麼去輔導他去做生殖能處理場怎麼去輔導他去做珍珠中心我相信環境部還是要大力的去推動去支持是 是 沒問題好 謝謝好 謝謝馮董那接下來請\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那先請陳部長先請農業部陳部長\n陳部長那在10月26號記者會你本來說第二天就可以提出完整的補助方案那後來又說要改要一週所以是不是確定下週一可以提出完整的補助方案\n我想我跟委員說明就是當初我記得沒有錯的話當初在這個方案裡面只針對一個小環節那我們後來考慮到就是整個豬產業不是只有特定的一個環節受到影響所以我才會請我們的同事\n要把整個租的一級的產業鏈都把它評估出來那這樣的話我們在這個疫情期間受影響的這些從業人員我們才能夠讓他們有一些比較安心所以在這個禮拜六最慢這個禮拜六之前我們就會完整的方案做公佈因為整個方案的公佈還要經過行政院先同意嘛因為需要一些經費\n好 那而且昨天總質詢的時候本席有問到就是有請我們部長幫忙針對豬農短期飼料補助那部長好像也說這部分我想我們有納入我們的方案裡面\n有纳入我们的方案里面有纳入嘛所以也希望因为这次非洲猪瘟也来得很快那台湾这次碰到这样也对猪农有很大的影响我们希望这补助公布的速度也要快然后尽量补助能够全面来减少猪农这么大的损失\n我剛才說了我們就是在租產業鏈的一級生產鏈我們都會來協助處理所以盡量層面做大嘛減少他們的損失那還有我們非洲豬瘟爆發到現在那我們10月27號\n我們有開了應變中心有開第39次的會議對不對因為應變中心我們每天開會議我們每天開10月27要開第39次嘛對不對我可能要確認一下好沒關係那後來網路上因為現在還沒有公佈說他非洲豬瘟的原因現在原因還沒有找到對不對\n我想我們因為照整個案例場的一個權責是由台中市政府要進行疫調那台中市政府在疫調的過程中有一些必須釐清的所以還會不斷地去調查那美伊士的中央應變中心因為中央應變中心除了台中市以外是全台灣各縣市的所有的農業行政的首長或代表會參加那他們也在一直在關心整個案情的發展\n所以我們會把相關的這些工作會跟我們的工作會議裡面去會討論跟處理我們也希望這個原因趕快找出來不然其實現在網路上因為民眾很恐慌那網路上也議論紛紛一下說越南配偶也有說陸配也有人說什麼為了萊豬的進口那所以我們要找出這原因現在多久可以完成基因序列的定序\n這個檢測什麼時候可以完成禮拜五禮拜五可以完成不過我要先跟委員報告基因定序完你也不能說這個是中國來的這個是越南來的這個沒有辦法他定序完只是說跟哪一國的株枝基因序列相似這個有他的複雜性因為你要做比對的時候一定要那個國家把他的基因序列上網我們才能夠比對可是很可惜的中國的所有的基因序列他都不上網\n所以沒有辦法核對所以我們只知道這個基因的序列那可能這個基因裡面可能是不是有一些有一些重組或其他的部分對這個了解所以就算定序之後也沒有辦法證明是哪一個國家沒有辦法證明 這沒辦法證明\n那到時候這個原因可能還是不容易找到真的 因為肥肉豬瘟有可能是除於有可能是人的接觸有沒有到國外的案場有沒有發病的這些場 畜牧場然後從這個衣服或是什麼東西攜帶進來的都有可能啦所以我們必須要用排除的方式也好或用確認的方式也好去釐清對 因為我們也是希望這個發生的原因盡量找到以後才有辦法去遏止\n對 我們現在的疫調其實還有一個重點除了趕快找到可能的來源以外更重要就是說在這個疫調過程中可以了解我們整個防疫系統裡面哪一些還可以去做精進的這個才是一個重點好 那我們現在染疫死亡的株質處理方式\n染疫就是一條染疫就是那一頭那其他的都是必死豬就是因為豬是在飼養過程中他可能因為管理不當或者可能其他的疾病那這些疾病都不是法定的傳染病的部分那一般來講是可以送到化製廠或者是焚燒也可以或者是掩埋有它的三種模式然後根據它當地的本身的條件而決定但是我要再強調它不是非洲豬瘟的\n並 必死豬 因為非洲豬瘟的必死豬只有一條就是我們現在發現的齁 就是檢測那其他的不是其他的現在我們在疫調的過程中齁發現的齁 那都是必死豬 就是說不是感染而引起的死亡的蜘蛛但是我們去抽檢都是陰性它都不是非洲豬瘟所以目前查到有非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭就是檢測的只有一條那其他的那個場 其他的還沒有檢測出來對 那個場全部撲殺嘛\n全部撲殺所以其他的場域我們檢測出來的有沒有我們在公布的時候檢測出來的都是一般的正常的有疾病的死亡但是不是非洲豬瘟染病而死亡的所以那個場的全部撲殺之後最後是掩埋是不是對 那個是因為緊急撲殺而掩埋\n那掩埋的地點應該 後來應該都有管理吧沒有 這個掩埋地點就是其實在平常的規劃裡面就已經確認在那個地點了因為非洲豬屋我們有一個團隊中央應變中心一直持續在溫泉從108年開始 我們沒有間斷每年都開三到四次會所以在那個時候就有預定了萬一有問題發生的時候在哪邊掩埋 掩埋怎麼掩埋的所有的程序都是按照那個方式來做\n對 所以也管理好不會有以後再擴散的問題對 所以現在是鎖定在這個案場啊沒有其他外擴的跡象我們只能這樣講好 所以都是對掩埋場都有管理嘛是好 那\n我們記得我們在2018年農業部好像就超前部署針對各種非洲豬瘟防疫管理措施好像就已經有超前部署所以到現在應該算一算也有七年了吧對那我們這七年到底做了什麼怎麼感覺非洲豬瘟一來好像大家很多事情還沒有準備好\n我跟各位報告 跟委員報告就是我們在107年成立中央應變中心的時候我們就沒有說結束就一直持續著那在這個過程中其實因為台灣是沒有非洲豬瘟的疫區非洲豬瘟疫區所以都沒有非洲豬瘟的前提之下我們的重點是在邊境的防治 防疫就是將病毒阻絕於境外那這個部分\n特別是針對我們的手提行李人員旅客的這些後送行李郵包郵件還有走私的茶器所以一直在強調這個所以我們在歷次的成果對外宣布的時候就是我們的確也檢測到一些高風險疫區來的這些肉製品是含有非肉質溫的病毒\n所以我們是重點是在防疫就是阻絕於境外那這次是第一次我們發現到這個案例那這個案例本身其實我們有演練包括您剛才講的遇到了以後在哪邊哪邊去掩埋有沒有怎麼掩埋方法其實我們都有演練\n對 所以我希望說 居然從2018年我們就有再開始來做超前部署所以針對這些發生以後 這些後續這些問題包含廚餘啊 還有這些豬隻掩埋然後民眾該怎麼去應對 應該要有一個指引不然民眾會造成相當的恐慌我想我們這個指引其實都有 現在\n比較看到比較一些比較弱的地方就是疫調的部分那其他的針對關聯廠的調查有沒有去採樣去檢測包括全國的我相信現在目前做的他們現在做的是還符合他們規定所以我也希望農業部在這一方面盡量多宣傳讓民眾去了解有些不必要的恐慌避免民眾因為不了解造成恐慌\n那所以有一些指引民眾該怎麼去面對 怎麼去處理怎麼面對 還是說怎麼去觀察的外觀等等應該要教育一下我們的民眾對 我想分兩個層次一個層次是消費者 一個層次是豬農啦那消費者就是放心的吃豬肉很多人 現在很多影片說現在可能這個豬肉吃了會怎樣我覺得這個是錯假訊息 我們一直在處理\n對 所以這個就是該教育的對 那個另外一個部分是豬籠的部分那豬籠的部分本身的這些可能疑似案例跟那個胸腺肺炎 是不是\n圖卡的部分我們都有給豬農去做這些判試加強他們的判試所以我說居然從2018我們就開始有超前部署像這些我們當初已經有規劃的包含豬農消費者的部分一定要先讓他們知道對我們持續在做謝謝委員提醒好那我們現在因為\n非洲豬瘟它有潛伏期冷凍豬肉可以100天冷藏豬肉100天冷凍豬肉可以到1000天那我們現在擔心是說你15天的禁令萬一15天以後又還有是不是15天又15天那這個時間是不是會一直延長下去\n我們在整個處理這個應變的部分就是這個案例場發生發生我們用15天的禁運的目的就是說可能的傳播鏈我們要把它截斷這樣的話我們去找\n除了這個案例場以外其他的案例場有沒有同時發生那第一輪的疫調裡面我們很幸運的覺得說這個案例場並沒有擴散的跡象但是現在還在潛伏期不敢這樣百分之百想說因為我們現在擔心說我們現在是禁載禁運而且禁用廚餘嘛那所以現在禁用廚餘我相信今天大家都討論很多廚餘的部分怎麼去處理所以這一部分可能要請我們環境部彭部長\n好 那陳部長 那你就請回我問一下彭部長請彭部長 副委員好好 彭部長 那針對我們廚餘去化的方式其實昨天本席有總諮詢問行政院院長其實他也說他不滿意現在廚餘的處理方式那請問部長有什麼想法\n包委員因為我必須感謝過去養豬可以解決很多廚藝的問題未來不管這個廚藝怎麼去去化這個廚藝可不可以拿來養豬其實現在其實我覺得還是有一些更好的方法如果說還是有珍珠的一個方式的話珍珠中心是一種方式但是如何對於現有的珍珠能夠加強監控這是我們可以做的\n那如果未來廚藝不養豬它可能是要有一段時間那這個時候就要想辦法把廚藝的例如說生殖能源 黑水盲或是各種堆肥的所謂的量能把它盤點算出來要有一段時間我們是鼓勵這樣的措施的對 但是我們現在大部分\n現在那麼多處理好像很多都是用掩埋的方式處理對不對目前在緊急狀況下有些縣市它的量能不夠他只好用掩埋的方式做處理所以行政院長對於就是因為現在大部分都用掩埋方式所以他是不埋\n沒有沒有委員大概就是台中啦台中是比較多啦那台中也宣布說他們用現在要進到焚化廠那部長剛剛也有提到喔那就是生殖能處理廠還有真主中心等等都是一個很好的方式嘛是\n那現在因為現在發生這個事情之後我相信現在連地方政府大家都非常的重視那是不是環境部針對我們生食能處理廠還有珍屬中心是不是能夠支持甚至補助經費讓他們去做這些的設備\n報委員 這個其實不見得是我們要經費補助這個經過一些設計 生態系的建立之後其實是可以用BOT的方式能夠建立起來像桃園的那個生殖能中心就是這樣的一個案例不見得是政府要拿很多錢出來對啊 那至少要\n怎麼去輔導他們去做我們是期待有更多但是跟委員報告因為像這樣的措施很容易變成是嫌惡設施所以這個部分也需要跟民眾那當然地方政府一定要有這個意願能夠來做不然的話我們想做也做不出來好 所以針對這部分現在非洲豬瘟發生大家就重視到廚藥的問題所以希望部長我們來加速來嚴寧怎麼樣處理廚藥的問題\n那這些我們該怎麼去輔導他去做生殖能處理場怎麼去輔導他去做珍珠中心我相信環境部還是要大力的去推動去支持是 是 沒問題好 謝謝好 謝謝馮董那接下來請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.530 --> 00:10.872\n好謝謝主席那先請陳部長先請農業部陳部長\n\n00:20.367 --> 00:36.765\n陳部長那在10月26號記者會你本來說第二天就可以提出完整的補助方案那後來又說要改要一週所以是不是確定下週一可以提出完整的補助方案\n\n00:37.245 --> 00:53.940\n我想我跟委員說明就是當初我記得沒有錯的話當初在這個方案裡面只針對一個小環節那我們後來考慮到就是整個豬產業不是只有特定的一個環節受到影響所以我才會請我們的同事\n\n00:54.580 --> 01:17.389\n要把整個租的一級的產業鏈都把它評估出來那這樣的話我們在這個疫情期間受影響的這些從業人員我們才能夠讓他們有一些比較安心所以在這個禮拜六最慢這個禮拜六之前我們就會完整的方案做公佈因為整個方案的公佈還要經過行政院先同意嘛因為需要一些經費\n\n01:18.689 --> 01:32.372\n好那而且昨天總質詢的時候本席有問到就是有請我們部長幫忙針對豬農短期飼料補助那部長好像也說這部分我想我們有納入我們的方案裡面\n\n01:33.311 --> 01:52.186\n有纳入我们的方案里面有纳入嘛所以也希望因为这次非洲猪瘟也来得很快那台湾这次碰到这样也对猪农有很大的影响我们希望这补助公布的速度也要快然后尽量补助能够全面来减少猪农这么大的损失\n\n01:52.686 --> 02:09.995\n我剛才說了我們就是在租產業鏈的一級生產鏈我們都會來協助處理所以盡量層面做大嘛減少他們的損失那還有我們非洲豬瘟爆發到現在那我們10月27號\n\n02:11.823 --> 02:35.200\n我們有開了應變中心有開第39次的會議對不對因為應變中心我們每天開會議我們每天開10月27要開第39次嘛對不對我可能要確認一下好沒關係那後來網路上因為現在還沒有公佈說他非洲豬瘟的原因現在原因還沒有找到對不對\n\n02:36.181 --> 03:02.678\n我想我們因為照整個案例場的一個權責是由台中市政府要進行疫調那台中市政府在疫調的過程中有一些必須釐清的所以還會不斷地去調查那美伊士的中央應變中心因為中央應變中心除了台中市以外是全台灣各縣市的所有的農業行政的首長或代表會參加那他們也在一直在關心整個案情的發展\n\n03:03.038 --> 03:30.208\n所以我們會把相關的這些工作會跟我們的工作會議裡面去會討論跟處理我們也希望這個原因趕快找出來不然其實現在網路上因為民眾很恐慌那網路上也議論紛紛一下說越南配偶也有說陸配也有人說什麼為了萊豬的進口那所以我們要找出這原因現在多久可以完成基因序列的定序\n\n03:32.041 --> 04:00.628\n這個檢測什麼時候可以完成禮拜五禮拜五可以完成不過我要先跟委員報告基因定序完你也不能說這個是中國來的這個是越南來的這個沒有辦法他定序完只是說跟哪一國的株枝基因序列相似這個有他的複雜性因為你要做比對的時候一定要那個國家把他的基因序列上網我們才能夠比對可是很可惜的中國的所有的基因序列他都不上網\n\n04:02.473 --> 04:17.225\n所以沒有辦法核對所以我們只知道這個基因的序列那可能這個基因裡面可能是不是有一些有一些重組或其他的部分對這個了解所以就算定序之後也沒有辦法證明是哪一個國家沒有辦法證明這沒辦法證明\n\n04:18.165 --> 04:47.045\n那到時候這個原因可能還是不容易找到真的因為肥肉豬瘟有可能是除於有可能是人的接觸有沒有到國外的案場有沒有發病的這些場畜牧場然後從這個衣服或是什麼東西攜帶進來的都有可能啦所以我們必須要用排除的方式也好或用確認的方式也好去釐清對因為我們也是希望這個發生的原因盡量找到以後才有辦法去遏止\n\n04:48.025 --> 05:04.480\n對我們現在的疫調其實還有一個重點除了趕快找到可能的來源以外更重要就是說在這個疫調過程中可以了解我們整個防疫系統裡面哪一些還可以去做精進的這個才是一個重點好那我們現在染疫死亡的株質處理方式\n\n05:06.323 --> 05:34.486\n染疫就是一條染疫就是那一頭那其他的都是必死豬就是因為豬是在飼養過程中他可能因為管理不當或者可能其他的疾病那這些疾病都不是法定的傳染病的部分那一般來講是可以送到化製廠或者是焚燒也可以或者是掩埋有它的三種模式然後根據它當地的本身的條件而決定但是我要再強調它不是非洲豬瘟的\n\n05:35.647 --> 06:03.722\n並必死豬因為非洲豬瘟的必死豬只有一條就是我們現在發現的齁就是檢測那其他的不是其他的現在我們在疫調的過程中齁發現的齁那都是必死豬就是說不是感染而引起的死亡的蜘蛛但是我們去抽檢都是陰性它都不是非洲豬瘟所以目前查到有非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭就是檢測的只有一條那其他的那個場其他的還沒有檢測出來對那個場全部撲殺嘛\n\n06:05.622 --> 06:23.534\n全部撲殺所以其他的場域我們檢測出來的有沒有我們在公布的時候檢測出來的都是一般的正常的有疾病的死亡但是不是非洲豬瘟染病而死亡的所以那個場的全部撲殺之後最後是掩埋是不是對那個是因為緊急撲殺而掩埋\n\n06:24.995 --> 06:51.961\n那掩埋的地點應該後來應該都有管理吧沒有這個掩埋地點就是其實在平常的規劃裡面就已經確認在那個地點了因為非洲豬屋我們有一個團隊中央應變中心一直持續在溫泉從108年開始我們沒有間斷每年都開三到四次會所以在那個時候就有預定了萬一有問題發生的時候在哪邊掩埋掩埋怎麼掩埋的所有的程序都是按照那個方式來做\n\n06:52.761 --> 07:06.031\n對所以也管理好不會有以後再擴散的問題對所以現在是鎖定在這個案場啊沒有其他外擴的跡象我們只能這樣講好所以都是對掩埋場都有管理嘛是好那\n\n07:06.977 --> 07:30.268\n我們記得我們在2018年農業部好像就超前部署針對各種非洲豬瘟防疫管理措施好像就已經有超前部署所以到現在應該算一算也有七年了吧對那我們這七年到底做了什麼怎麼感覺非洲豬瘟一來好像大家很多事情還沒有準備好\n\n07:31.148 --> 07:56.166\n我跟各位報告跟委員報告就是我們在107年成立中央應變中心的時候我們就沒有說結束就一直持續著那在這個過程中其實因為台灣是沒有非洲豬瘟的疫區非洲豬瘟疫區所以都沒有非洲豬瘟的前提之下我們的重點是在邊境的防治防疫就是將病毒阻絕於境外那這個部分\n\n07:56.846 --> 08:16.619\n特別是針對我們的手提行李人員旅客的這些後送行李郵包郵件還有走私的茶器所以一直在強調這個所以我們在歷次的成果對外宣布的時候就是我們的確也檢測到一些高風險疫區來的這些肉製品是含有非肉質溫的病毒\n\n08:17.379 --> 08:34.205\n所以我們是重點是在防疫就是阻絕於境外那這次是第一次我們發現到這個案例那這個案例本身其實我們有演練包括您剛才講的遇到了以後在哪邊哪邊去掩埋有沒有怎麼掩埋方法其實我們都有演練\n\n08:35.285 --> 08:57.762\n對所以我希望說居然從2018年我們就有再開始來做超前部署所以針對這些發生以後這些後續這些問題包含廚餘啊還有這些豬隻掩埋然後民眾該怎麼去應對應該要有一個指引不然民眾會造成相當的恐慌我想我們這個指引其實都有現在\n\n08:58.743 --> 09:23.269\n比較看到比較一些比較弱的地方就是疫調的部分那其他的針對關聯廠的調查有沒有去採樣去檢測包括全國的我相信現在目前做的他們現在做的是還符合他們規定所以我也希望農業部在這一方面盡量多宣傳讓民眾去了解有些不必要的恐慌避免民眾因為不了解造成恐慌\n\n09:23.849 --> 09:46.409\n那所以有一些指引民眾該怎麼去面對怎麼去處理怎麼面對還是說怎麼去觀察的外觀等等應該要教育一下我們的民眾對我想分兩個層次一個層次是消費者一個層次是豬農啦那消費者就是放心的吃豬肉很多人現在很多影片說現在可能這個豬肉吃了會怎樣我覺得這個是錯假訊息我們一直在處理\n\n09:47.229 --> 09:56.621\n對所以這個就是該教育的對那個另外一個部分是豬籠的部分那豬籠的部分本身的這些可能疑似案例跟那個胸腺肺炎是不是\n\n09:58.119 --> 10:16.582\n圖卡的部分我們都有給豬農去做這些判試加強他們的判試所以我說居然從2018我們就開始有超前部署像這些我們當初已經有規劃的包含豬農消費者的部分一定要先讓他們知道對我們持續在做謝謝委員提醒好那我們現在因為\n\n10:17.935 --> 10:34.330\n非洲豬瘟它有潛伏期冷凍豬肉可以100天冷藏豬肉100天冷凍豬肉可以到1000天那我們現在擔心是說你15天的禁令萬一15天以後又還有是不是15天又15天那這個時間是不是會一直延長下去\n\n10:35.351 --> 10:49.260\n我們在整個處理這個應變的部分就是這個案例場發生發生我們用15天的禁運的目的就是說可能的傳播鏈我們要把它截斷這樣的話我們去找\n\n10:50.200 --> 11:17.367\n除了這個案例場以外其他的案例場有沒有同時發生那第一輪的疫調裡面我們很幸運的覺得說這個案例場並沒有擴散的跡象但是現在還在潛伏期不敢這樣百分之百想說因為我們現在擔心說我們現在是禁載禁運而且禁用廚餘嘛那所以現在禁用廚餘我相信今天大家都討論很多廚餘的部分怎麼去處理所以這一部分可能要請我們環境部彭部長\n\n11:19.687 --> 11:38.843\n好那陳部長那你就請回我問一下彭部長請彭部長副委員好好彭部長那針對我們廚餘去化的方式其實昨天本席有總諮詢問行政院院長其實他也說他不滿意現在廚餘的處理方式那請問部長有什麼想法\n\n11:39.623 --> 12:02.337\n包委員因為我必須感謝過去養豬可以解決很多廚藝的問題未來不管這個廚藝怎麼去去化這個廚藝可不可以拿來養豬其實現在其實我覺得還是有一些更好的方法如果說還是有珍珠的一個方式的話珍珠中心是一種方式但是如何對於現有的珍珠能夠加強監控這是我們可以做的\n\n12:02.657 --> 12:20.443\n那如果未來廚藝不養豬它可能是要有一段時間那這個時候就要想辦法把廚藝的例如說生殖能源黑水盲或是各種堆肥的所謂的量能把它盤點算出來要有一段時間我們是鼓勵這樣的措施的對但是我們現在大部分\n\n12:21.583 --> 12:38.131\n現在那麼多處理好像很多都是用掩埋的方式處理對不對目前在緊急狀況下有些縣市它的量能不夠他只好用掩埋的方式做處理所以行政院長對於就是因為現在大部分都用掩埋方式所以他是不埋\n\n12:38.231 --> 12:53.264\n沒有沒有委員大概就是台中啦台中是比較多啦那台中也宣布說他們用現在要進到焚化廠那部長剛剛也有提到喔那就是生殖能處理廠還有真主中心等等都是一個很好的方式嘛是\n\n12:53.564 --> 13:11.118\n那現在因為現在發生這個事情之後我相信現在連地方政府大家都非常的重視那是不是環境部針對我們生食能處理廠還有珍屬中心是不是能夠支持甚至補助經費讓他們去做這些的設備\n\n13:12.840 --> 13:27.320\n報委員這個其實不見得是我們要經費補助這個經過一些設計生態系的建立之後其實是可以用BOT的方式能夠建立起來像桃園的那個生殖能中心就是這樣的一個案例不見得是政府要拿很多錢出來對啊那至少要\n\n13:27.620 --> 13:54.291\n怎麼去輔導他們去做我們是期待有更多但是跟委員報告因為像這樣的措施很容易變成是嫌惡設施所以這個部分也需要跟民眾那當然地方政府一定要有這個意願能夠來做不然的話我們想做也做不出來好所以針對這部分現在非洲豬瘟發生大家就重視到廚藥的問題所以希望部長我們來加速來嚴寧怎麼樣處理廚藥的問題\n\n13:56.832 --> 14:07.845\n那這些我們該怎麼去輔導他去做生殖能處理場怎麼去輔導他去做珍珠中心我相信環境部還是要大力的去推動去支持是是沒問題好謝謝好謝謝馮董那接下來請\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.53,"end":10.872,"text":"好 謝謝主席那先請陳部長先請農業部陳部長"},{"start":20.367,"end":36.765,"text":"陳部長那在10月26號記者會你本來說第二天就可以提出完整的補助方案那後來又說要改要一週所以是不是確定下週一可以提出完整的補助方案"},{"start":37.245,"end":53.94,"text":"我想我跟委員說明就是當初我記得沒有錯的話當初在這個方案裡面只針對一個小環節那我們後來考慮到就是整個豬產業不是只有特定的一個環節受到影響所以我才會請我們的同事"},{"start":54.58,"end":77.389,"text":"要把整個租的一級的產業鏈都把它評估出來那這樣的話我們在這個疫情期間受影響的這些從業人員我們才能夠讓他們有一些比較安心所以在這個禮拜六最慢這個禮拜六之前我們就會完整的方案做公佈因為整個方案的公佈還要經過行政院先同意嘛因為需要一些經費"},{"start":78.689,"end":92.372,"text":"好 那而且昨天總質詢的時候本席有問到就是有請我們部長幫忙針對豬農短期飼料補助那部長好像也說這部分我想我們有納入我們的方案裡面"},{"start":93.311,"end":112.186,"text":"有纳入我们的方案里面有纳入嘛所以也希望因为这次非洲猪瘟也来得很快那台湾这次碰到这样也对猪农有很大的影响我们希望这补助公布的速度也要快然后尽量补助能够全面来减少猪农这么大的损失"},{"start":112.686,"end":129.995,"text":"我剛才說了我們就是在租產業鏈的一級生產鏈我們都會來協助處理所以盡量層面做大嘛減少他們的損失那還有我們非洲豬瘟爆發到現在那我們10月27號"},{"start":131.823,"end":155.2,"text":"我們有開了應變中心有開第39次的會議對不對因為應變中心我們每天開會議我們每天開10月27要開第39次嘛對不對我可能要確認一下好沒關係那後來網路上因為現在還沒有公佈說他非洲豬瘟的原因現在原因還沒有找到對不對"},{"start":156.181,"end":182.678,"text":"我想我們因為照整個案例場的一個權責是由台中市政府要進行疫調那台中市政府在疫調的過程中有一些必須釐清的所以還會不斷地去調查那美伊士的中央應變中心因為中央應變中心除了台中市以外是全台灣各縣市的所有的農業行政的首長或代表會參加那他們也在一直在關心整個案情的發展"},{"start":183.038,"end":210.208,"text":"所以我們會把相關的這些工作會跟我們的工作會議裡面去會討論跟處理我們也希望這個原因趕快找出來不然其實現在網路上因為民眾很恐慌那網路上也議論紛紛一下說越南配偶也有說陸配也有人說什麼為了萊豬的進口那所以我們要找出這原因現在多久可以完成基因序列的定序"},{"start":212.041,"end":240.628,"text":"這個檢測什麼時候可以完成禮拜五禮拜五可以完成不過我要先跟委員報告基因定序完你也不能說這個是中國來的這個是越南來的這個沒有辦法他定序完只是說跟哪一國的株枝基因序列相似這個有他的複雜性因為你要做比對的時候一定要那個國家把他的基因序列上網我們才能夠比對可是很可惜的中國的所有的基因序列他都不上網"},{"start":242.473,"end":257.225,"text":"所以沒有辦法核對所以我們只知道這個基因的序列那可能這個基因裡面可能是不是有一些有一些重組或其他的部分對這個了解所以就算定序之後也沒有辦法證明是哪一個國家沒有辦法證明 這沒辦法證明"},{"start":258.165,"end":287.045,"text":"那到時候這個原因可能還是不容易找到真的 因為肥肉豬瘟有可能是除於有可能是人的接觸有沒有到國外的案場有沒有發病的這些場 畜牧場然後從這個衣服或是什麼東西攜帶進來的都有可能啦所以我們必須要用排除的方式也好或用確認的方式也好去釐清對 因為我們也是希望這個發生的原因盡量找到以後才有辦法去遏止"},{"start":288.025,"end":304.48,"text":"對 我們現在的疫調其實還有一個重點除了趕快找到可能的來源以外更重要就是說在這個疫調過程中可以了解我們整個防疫系統裡面哪一些還可以去做精進的這個才是一個重點好 那我們現在染疫死亡的株質處理方式"},{"start":306.323,"end":334.486,"text":"染疫就是一條染疫就是那一頭那其他的都是必死豬就是因為豬是在飼養過程中他可能因為管理不當或者可能其他的疾病那這些疾病都不是法定的傳染病的部分那一般來講是可以送到化製廠或者是焚燒也可以或者是掩埋有它的三種模式然後根據它當地的本身的條件而決定但是我要再強調它不是非洲豬瘟的"},{"start":335.647,"end":363.722,"text":"並 必死豬 因為非洲豬瘟的必死豬只有一條就是我們現在發現的齁 就是檢測那其他的不是其他的現在我們在疫調的過程中齁發現的齁 那都是必死豬 就是說不是感染而引起的死亡的蜘蛛但是我們去抽檢都是陰性它都不是非洲豬瘟所以目前查到有非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭就是檢測的只有一條那其他的那個場 其他的還沒有檢測出來對 那個場全部撲殺嘛"},{"start":365.622,"end":383.534,"text":"全部撲殺所以其他的場域我們檢測出來的有沒有我們在公布的時候檢測出來的都是一般的正常的有疾病的死亡但是不是非洲豬瘟染病而死亡的所以那個場的全部撲殺之後最後是掩埋是不是對 那個是因為緊急撲殺而掩埋"},{"start":384.995,"end":411.961,"text":"那掩埋的地點應該 後來應該都有管理吧沒有 這個掩埋地點就是其實在平常的規劃裡面就已經確認在那個地點了因為非洲豬屋我們有一個團隊中央應變中心一直持續在溫泉從108年開始 我們沒有間斷每年都開三到四次會所以在那個時候就有預定了萬一有問題發生的時候在哪邊掩埋 掩埋怎麼掩埋的所有的程序都是按照那個方式來做"},{"start":412.761,"end":426.031,"text":"對 所以也管理好不會有以後再擴散的問題對 所以現在是鎖定在這個案場啊沒有其他外擴的跡象我們只能這樣講好 所以都是對掩埋場都有管理嘛是好 那"},{"start":426.977,"end":450.268,"text":"我們記得我們在2018年農業部好像就超前部署針對各種非洲豬瘟防疫管理措施好像就已經有超前部署所以到現在應該算一算也有七年了吧對那我們這七年到底做了什麼怎麼感覺非洲豬瘟一來好像大家很多事情還沒有準備好"},{"start":451.148,"end":476.166,"text":"我跟各位報告 跟委員報告就是我們在107年成立中央應變中心的時候我們就沒有說結束就一直持續著那在這個過程中其實因為台灣是沒有非洲豬瘟的疫區非洲豬瘟疫區所以都沒有非洲豬瘟的前提之下我們的重點是在邊境的防治 防疫就是將病毒阻絕於境外那這個部分"},{"start":476.846,"end":496.619,"text":"特別是針對我們的手提行李人員旅客的這些後送行李郵包郵件還有走私的茶器所以一直在強調這個所以我們在歷次的成果對外宣布的時候就是我們的確也檢測到一些高風險疫區來的這些肉製品是含有非肉質溫的病毒"},{"start":497.379,"end":514.205,"text":"所以我們是重點是在防疫就是阻絕於境外那這次是第一次我們發現到這個案例那這個案例本身其實我們有演練包括您剛才講的遇到了以後在哪邊哪邊去掩埋有沒有怎麼掩埋方法其實我們都有演練"},{"start":515.285,"end":537.762,"text":"對 所以我希望說 居然從2018年我們就有再開始來做超前部署所以針對這些發生以後 這些後續這些問題包含廚餘啊 還有這些豬隻掩埋然後民眾該怎麼去應對 應該要有一個指引不然民眾會造成相當的恐慌我想我們這個指引其實都有 現在"},{"start":538.743,"end":563.269,"text":"比較看到比較一些比較弱的地方就是疫調的部分那其他的針對關聯廠的調查有沒有去採樣去檢測包括全國的我相信現在目前做的他們現在做的是還符合他們規定所以我也希望農業部在這一方面盡量多宣傳讓民眾去了解有些不必要的恐慌避免民眾因為不了解造成恐慌"},{"start":563.849,"end":586.409,"text":"那所以有一些指引民眾該怎麼去面對 怎麼去處理怎麼面對 還是說怎麼去觀察的外觀等等應該要教育一下我們的民眾對 我想分兩個層次一個層次是消費者 一個層次是豬農啦那消費者就是放心的吃豬肉很多人 現在很多影片說現在可能這個豬肉吃了會怎樣我覺得這個是錯假訊息 我們一直在處理"},{"start":587.229,"end":596.621,"text":"對 所以這個就是該教育的對 那個另外一個部分是豬籠的部分那豬籠的部分本身的這些可能疑似案例跟那個胸腺肺炎 是不是"},{"start":598.119,"end":616.582,"text":"圖卡的部分我們都有給豬農去做這些判試加強他們的判試所以我說居然從2018我們就開始有超前部署像這些我們當初已經有規劃的包含豬農消費者的部分一定要先讓他們知道對我們持續在做謝謝委員提醒好那我們現在因為"},{"start":617.935,"end":634.33,"text":"非洲豬瘟它有潛伏期冷凍豬肉可以100天冷藏豬肉100天冷凍豬肉可以到1000天那我們現在擔心是說你15天的禁令萬一15天以後又還有是不是15天又15天那這個時間是不是會一直延長下去"},{"start":635.351,"end":649.26,"text":"我們在整個處理這個應變的部分就是這個案例場發生發生我們用15天的禁運的目的就是說可能的傳播鏈我們要把它截斷這樣的話我們去找"},{"start":650.2,"end":677.367,"text":"除了這個案例場以外其他的案例場有沒有同時發生那第一輪的疫調裡面我們很幸運的覺得說這個案例場並沒有擴散的跡象但是現在還在潛伏期不敢這樣百分之百想說因為我們現在擔心說我們現在是禁載禁運而且禁用廚餘嘛那所以現在禁用廚餘我相信今天大家都討論很多廚餘的部分怎麼去處理所以這一部分可能要請我們環境部彭部長"},{"start":679.687,"end":698.843,"text":"好 那陳部長 那你就請回我問一下彭部長請彭部長 副委員好好 彭部長 那針對我們廚餘去化的方式其實昨天本席有總諮詢問行政院院長其實他也說他不滿意現在廚餘的處理方式那請問部長有什麼想法"},{"start":699.623,"end":722.337,"text":"包委員因為我必須感謝過去養豬可以解決很多廚藝的問題未來不管這個廚藝怎麼去去化這個廚藝可不可以拿來養豬其實現在其實我覺得還是有一些更好的方法如果說還是有珍珠的一個方式的話珍珠中心是一種方式但是如何對於現有的珍珠能夠加強監控這是我們可以做的"},{"start":722.657,"end":740.443,"text":"那如果未來廚藝不養豬它可能是要有一段時間那這個時候就要想辦法把廚藝的例如說生殖能源 黑水盲或是各種堆肥的所謂的量能把它盤點算出來要有一段時間我們是鼓勵這樣的措施的對 但是我們現在大部分"},{"start":741.583,"end":758.131,"text":"現在那麼多處理好像很多都是用掩埋的方式處理對不對目前在緊急狀況下有些縣市它的量能不夠他只好用掩埋的方式做處理所以行政院長對於就是因為現在大部分都用掩埋方式所以他是不埋"},{"start":758.231,"end":773.264,"text":"沒有沒有委員大概就是台中啦台中是比較多啦那台中也宣布說他們用現在要進到焚化廠那部長剛剛也有提到喔那就是生殖能處理廠還有真主中心等等都是一個很好的方式嘛是"},{"start":773.564,"end":791.118,"text":"那現在因為現在發生這個事情之後我相信現在連地方政府大家都非常的重視那是不是環境部針對我們生食能處理廠還有珍屬中心是不是能夠支持甚至補助經費讓他們去做這些的設備"},{"start":792.84,"end":807.32,"text":"報委員 這個其實不見得是我們要經費補助這個經過一些設計 生態系的建立之後其實是可以用BOT的方式能夠建立起來像桃園的那個生殖能中心就是這樣的一個案例不見得是政府要拿很多錢出來對啊 那至少要"},{"start":807.62,"end":834.291,"text":"怎麼去輔導他們去做我們是期待有更多但是跟委員報告因為像這樣的措施很容易變成是嫌惡設施所以這個部分也需要跟民眾那當然地方政府一定要有這個意願能夠來做不然的話我們想做也做不出來好 所以針對這部分現在非洲豬瘟發生大家就重視到廚藥的問題所以希望部長我們來加速來嚴寧怎麼樣處理廚藥的問題"},{"start":836.832,"end":847.845,"text":"那這些我們該怎麼去輔導他去做生殖能處理場怎麼去輔導他去做珍珠中心我相信環境部還是要大力的去推動去支持是 是 沒問題好 謝謝好 謝謝馮董那接下來請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1292,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（13時2分）謝謝主席，先請陳部長。"],["主席：有請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：陳部長好。在10月26日的記者會，你本來說第2天就可以提出完整的補助方案，那後來又改一週，所以是不是確定下週一可以提出完整的補助方案？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，我記得沒有錯的話，當初在這個方案裡面只針對一個小環節，我們後來考慮到整個豬產業不是只有特定的一個環節受到影響，所以我才會請同事把整個豬的一級的產業鏈都把它評估出來，這樣的話在這個疫情期間受影響的這些從業人員，我們才能夠讓他們比較安心。"],["涂委員權吉：所以最快什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：最慢這個禮拜六之前，我們就會把完整的方案做公布，整個方案的公布還要經過行政院先同意，因為需要一些經費。"],["涂委員權吉：昨天總質詢的時候，本席提到請部長幫忙，針對豬農短期飼料補助，部長好像也說這部分也會納入。"],["陳部長駿季：這個有納入我們的方案裡面。"],["涂委員權吉：因為這次非洲豬瘟來得很快，臺灣這次的疫情對豬農有很大的影響，我們希望相關補助的公布速度也要快，儘量能夠全面補助以減少豬農這麼大的損失。"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才說的，我們就是針對豬產業鏈的一級生產鏈，我們都會來協助處理。"],["涂委員權吉：好，所以儘量層面做大嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["涂委員權吉：減少他們的損失。","另外，非洲豬瘟爆發到現在，10月27日應變中心召開第39次會議，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們應變中心每天開會，我們每天開。"],["涂委員權吉：10月27日開第39次嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：我可能要確認一下。"],["涂委員權吉：好，沒關係。現在還沒有公布發生非洲豬瘟的原因，現在原因還沒有找到對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：照整個案例場的權責是由臺中市政府要去疫調，臺中市政府在疫調的過程中有一些必須釐清的，所以還會不斷的去調查，因為中央應變中心除了臺中市以外，其實是全臺灣各縣市所有農業行政的首長或代表會參加，他們也一直在關心整個案情的發展，所以我們會把相關的這些工作在我們的工作會議裡面去討論跟處理。"],["涂委員權吉：我們也希望原因趕快找出來，因為民眾很恐慌，網路上也議論紛紛，一下說越南配偶，也有說陸配，也有人說什麼為了萊豬的進口，所以我們要找出原因，請教多久可以完成基因序列的定序？這個檢測什麼時候可以完成？"],["陳部長駿季：禮拜五。"],["涂委員權吉：禮拜五可以完成。"],["陳部長駿季：是，不過我要先跟委員報告，即使基因定序完，也不能說這個是中國來的，這個是越南來的，這個沒有辦法……"],["涂委員權吉：定序完只是跟哪一國的豬隻基因序列相似，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：這個有它的複雜性，因為在做比對的時候，一定要那個國家把它的基因序列上網，我們才能夠比對，可是很可惜的，中國對所有的基因序列都不上網，不上網的話，你就沒有辦法核對，所以我們只知道這個基因的序列，可能這個基因裡面是不是有一些重組或其他的部分，要對這個進行瞭解。"],["涂委員權吉：所以就算定序之後也沒有辦法證明是哪一個國家的？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有辦法證明，這沒辦法證明。"],["涂委員權吉：所以原因可能還是不容易找到？"],["陳部長駿季：真的，因為非洲豬瘟有可能是廚餘，有可能是人的接觸，比如到國外已發病的案場、畜牧場，然後從衣服或是什麼東西攜帶進來都有可能啦，所以我們必須要用排除的方式也好，或用確認的方式也好，去加以釐清。"],["涂委員權吉：對，我們也希望發生的原因儘量能夠找到，以後才有辦法去遏止。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們現在的疫調其實還有一個重點，除了趕快找到可能的來源以外，更重要就是說在這個疫調過程中可以瞭解我們整個防疫系統裡面哪一些還可以去做精進，這個才是一個重點。"],["涂委員權吉：我們現在染疫死亡豬隻的處理方式？"],["陳部長駿季：染疫就那一頭啊，其他的都是斃死豬啦，因為豬隻在飼養過程中，牠可能因為管理不當或是可能有其他的疾病，這些疾病都不是法定的傳染病，一般來講是可以送到化製廠，或者是焚燒也可以，或是掩埋，有三種模式，根據當地本身的條件而決定。但是我要再強調，這不是非洲豬瘟的斃死豬，因為非洲豬瘟的斃死豬只有一頭，就是我們現在發現檢測出來的那一頭。"],["涂委員權吉：那其他的不是？"],["陳部長駿季：現在我們在疫調的過程中發現的都是斃死豬，不是感染而引起死亡的隻豬，但是我們去抽檢都是陰性，都不是非洲豬瘟。"],["涂委員權吉：所以目前查到因為非洲豬瘟死亡的只有一頭？"],["陳部長駿季：就是檢測出來的只有一頭，其他的……"],["涂委員權吉：其他的還沒有檢測？"],["陳部長駿季：對，那個場全部撲殺嘛，所以其他的場域我們檢測出來的，我們在公布時檢測出來都是一般正常的，有因為疾病而死亡的，但不是非洲豬瘟染病而死亡的。"],["涂委員權吉：所以那個案場全部撲殺之後最後是掩埋，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：對，那是因為緊急撲殺而掩埋。"],["涂委員權吉：那掩埋的地點後來應該都有管理吧？"],["陳部長駿季：這個掩埋地點其實在平常的規劃裡面就已經確認在那個地點了，因為我們對非洲豬瘟有一個團隊即中央應變中心，我們從108年開始一直持續沒有間斷喔，每年都開三到四次會，所以在那個時候就預定了，萬一有問題發生的時候在哪邊掩埋，有關掩埋的所有程序都是按照那個方式來做。"],["涂委員權吉：所以也可以管理好，不會有以後再擴散的問題？"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以現在是鎖定在這個案場，沒有其他外擴的跡象，我們只能這樣講。"],["涂委員權吉：好，所以對掩埋場都有管理嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["涂委員權吉：另外，記得在2018年農業部好像已經有超前部署，啓動各種非洲豬瘟防疫管理措施，好像就已經有超前部署，所以到現在算一算應該也有7年了啦。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["涂委員權吉：我們這7年到底做了什麼？怎麼感覺非洲豬瘟一來，好像大家很多事情還沒有準備好。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們在107年成立中央應變中心後就沒有結束，就一直持續著，在這個過程中，其實臺灣是非非洲豬瘟疫區，所以都沒有非洲豬瘟的前提之下，我們的重點是在邊境的防疫，就是將病毒阻絕於境外，這個部分特別是針對手提行李、人員旅客的後送行李、郵包、郵件，還有走私的查緝，是一直在強調這部分。所以我們在歷次成果對外宣布時，我們的確也檢測到一些高風險疫區來的肉製品是含有非洲豬瘟的病毒，所以我們的重點是在防疫，就是阻絕於境外。這次是第一次我們發現到這個案例，其實我們本身有演練，包括委員剛才講的遇到了以後要掩埋在哪邊及掩埋的方法，其實我們都有演練。"],["涂委員權吉：既然從2018年我們就開始做超前部署，所以針對發生以後這些後續的問題，包含廚餘及這些豬隻掩埋，以及民眾該怎麼去應對，這些應該要有一個指引，不然會造成民眾相當的恐慌。"],["陳部長駿季：其實這些指引我們都有，現在比較弱的地方就是疫調的部分，其他的針對關聯場的調查及採樣、檢測，包括全國的，我相信目前他們做的還符合規定。"],["涂委員權吉：我也希望農業部對這方面儘量多宣傳讓民眾瞭解，避免民眾因為不瞭解造成恐慌，所以要有一些指引，民眾該怎麼去面對、怎麼去處理，或是該怎麼去觀察外觀等等，應該要教育一下民眾。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我想分兩個層次，一個層次是消費者，一個層次是豬農，消費者就是放心的吃豬肉，現在很多影片說豬肉可能吃了會怎樣，我覺得這個是錯假訊息，我們一直在處理。"],["涂委員權吉：對，就是該教育的還是要教育。"],["陳部長駿季：另外一個部分是豬農的部分，這些可能疑似案例跟胸膜型肺炎的圖卡部分我們都有給豬農，讓他們去做判視，加強他們的判視。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們既然從2018就開始有超前部署，像這些我們當初已經有規劃的，包含豬農及消費者的部分一定要先讓他們知道。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們持續在做，謝謝委員提醒。"],["涂委員權吉：因為非洲豬瘟有潛伏期，冷藏豬肉100天，冷凍豬肉可以到1,000天，我們現在擔心的是，現在是15天的禁令，萬一在15天以後又還有，是不是15天之後又15天？這個時間是不是會一直延長下去？"],["陳部長駿季：我們在整個處理應變的部分，就是這個案例場發生，我們用15天禁運的目的就是要把可能的傳播鏈截斷，然後我們去找除了這個案例場以外的其他案例場有沒有同時發生，在第一輪的疫調裡面，我們很幸運的覺得這個案例場並沒有擴散的跡象，但是現在還在潛伏期，不敢百分之百這樣說。"],["涂委員權吉：因為我們擔心現在是禁宰、禁運，而且禁用廚餘嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["涂委員權吉：有關禁用廚餘，我相信今天大家都討論很多廚餘怎麼去處理，所以這一部分要請教環境部彭部長，陳部長請回，繼續我詢問彭部長。"],["主席（劉委員建國）：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：彭部長好。針對廚餘去化的方式，其實昨天本席在總質詢時有詢問行政院長，他也說不滿意現在廚餘的處理方式，請問部長有什麼想法？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我必須感謝過去養豬可以解決很多廚餘的問題，未來不管廚餘怎麼去化，廚餘可不可以拿來養豬，其實現在我覺得還是有一些更好的方法，如果還是有蒸煮方式的話，蒸煮中心是一種方式，但是如何對現有的蒸煮能夠加強監控，這是我們可以做的。如果未來廚餘不養豬，這可能需要一段時間，那這個時候就要想辦法把廚餘的例如生質能源、黑水虻或是各種堆肥的這個量能要盤點算出來，這要一段時間，我們是鼓勵這樣的措施。"],["涂委員權吉：對，但是現在那麼多廚餘，好像很多都是用掩埋的方式處理對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：目前在緊急狀況下，有些縣市的量能不夠，只好用掩埋的方式做處理。"],["涂委員權吉：對於現在大部分都用掩埋方式，行政院長是非常不滿。"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，大概就是臺中啦，臺中市比較多啦，臺中也宣布現在要進到焚化廠去做處理。"],["涂委員權吉：部長剛剛也有提到生質能處理廠及蒸煮中心等等都是一個很好的方式。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["涂委員權吉：在發生這個事情之後，我相信現在地方政府都非常重視，環境部針對生質能處理廠還有蒸煮中心是不是能夠支持，甚至補助經費讓他們做這些設備？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個其實不見得是我們要經費補助，這個經過一些設計，生態系的建立之後，其實是可以用BOT的方式能夠建立起來，像桃園的生質能中心就是這樣的案例，不見得是政府要拿很多錢出來。"],["涂委員權吉：至少要輔導他們怎麼去做。"],["彭部長啓明：有，我們是期待有更多，但是跟委員報告，因為像這樣的措施很容易變成是嫌惡設施，所以這個部分也希望跟民眾溝通，當然地方政府一定要有這個意願能夠來做，不然的話我們想做也做不出來。"],["涂委員權吉：現在非洲豬瘟發生，大家就重視廚餘的問題，所以希望部長加速研擬怎麼樣處理廚餘的問題，至於該怎麼去輔導做生質能處理廠及蒸煮中心，我相信環境部還是要大力的推動去支持。"],["彭部長啓明：是，沒問題，謝謝委員的意見。"],["涂委員權吉：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請楊曜委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","陳瑩","陳素月","謝龍介","王鴻薇","徐富癸","王正旭","涂權吉","楊曜","吳沛憶","牛煦庭","盧縣一","何欣純","范雲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴\n散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查( 一) 行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四\n十九條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員魯明哲等16 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等\n19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉\n玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十\n二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員劉建國等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第\n六條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十五) 委員沈發惠等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏\n等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人\n擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員林淑芬等21人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分\n條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)\n委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修\n正草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149002_00001"}}}