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{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 134.384, \"end\": 134.744, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 134.744, \"end\": 135.005, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 135.005, \"end\": 135.245, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 135.245, \"end\": 135.725, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 135.725, \"end\": 135.945, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 135.945, \"end\": 136.165, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 136.165, \"end\": 136.366, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.366, \"end\": 136.566, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 136.566, \"end\": 137.246, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 137.246, \"end\": 137.546, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 137.546, \"end\": 137.847, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 137.847, \"end\": 138.027, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"怎\", 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{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 142.69, \"end\": 142.91, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 142.91, \"end\": 143.09, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 143.09, \"end\": 143.27, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 143.27, \"end\": 143.47, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 143.47, \"end\": 143.75, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 143.75, \"end\": 144.431, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 144.431, \"end\": 145.051, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 145.051, \"end\": 145.271, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 145.271, \"end\": 145.292, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 146.172, \"end\": 167.722, \"text\": \"那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢是讓海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 146.172, \"end\": 146.412, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 146.412, \"end\": 146.572, \"score\": 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156.517, \"end\": 156.597, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 156.597, \"end\": 156.637, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 156.637, \"end\": 156.817, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 156.817, \"end\": 156.977, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 156.977, \"end\": 157.177, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 157.177, \"end\": 157.458, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 157.458, \"end\": 158.078, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 158.078, \"end\": 158.598, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 158.598, \"end\": 158.838, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 158.838, \"end\": 159.859, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 159.859, \"end\": 160.039, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 160.039, \"end\": 160.559, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", 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\"這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 169.649, \"end\": 171.35, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 171.35, \"end\": 171.47, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 171.47, \"end\": 171.611, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 171.611, \"end\": 171.871, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 171.871, \"end\": 172.051, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 172.051, \"end\": 173.332, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 173.332, \"end\": 173.552, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 173.552, \"end\": 173.792, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 173.792, \"end\": 174.172, 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\"到\", \"start\": 179.856, \"end\": 180.056, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 180.056, \"end\": 180.196, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 180.196, \"end\": 180.457, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 180.457, \"end\": 180.617, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 180.617, \"end\": 180.877, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 180.877, \"end\": 181.617, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 181.617, \"end\": 181.878, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 181.878, \"end\": 182.898, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 182.898, \"end\": 183.038, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 183.038, \"end\": 183.238, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"石\", \"start\": 183.238, \"end\": 183.359, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 183.359, \"end\": 184.039, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 184.039, \"end\": 184.379, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 184.379, \"end\": 184.599, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 184.599, \"end\": 184.739, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 184.739, \"end\": 184.88, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"迅\", \"start\": 184.88, \"end\": 185.14, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 185.14, \"end\": 185.16, \"score\": 0.231}]}, {\"start\": 185.62, \"end\": 202.081, \"text\": \"那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過世犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 185.62, \"end\": 186.001, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 186.001, \"end\": 186.802, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 186.802, \"end\": 187.222, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 187.222, \"end\": 187.462, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 636.915, \"end\": 636.935, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,325 --> 00:00:29,830\n我們請部長來請工部長部長我們總共有海覽七法那在我們經濟委員會是三法那第二個是電業法它是相關要保護我們海底的電力電纜那如果說我們這一次有新增了過失範\n\n2\n00:00:30,630 --> 00:00:49,159\n的罰則還有可沒收犯罪的工具傳播就是說讓你們更有這個執行的方向以前是沒有的所以不知道怎麼去處罰他們也不會害怕因為就無法可管嘛那天然氣事業法要保護海底的輸氣管線\n\n3\n00:00:50,499 --> 00:01:16,929\n我們新增了過失犯的罰則也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具還有船舶然後自來水法也是我們是針對海底送水管線那也是新增了過失犯的罰則還有可沒收的犯罪工具跟船舶大概我們這一次是給了我們更有可以執行的方向而且我們沒有這個\n\n4\n00:01:19,151 --> 00:01:32,704\n這些法令的話根本我們去說規範我們就不理你了即使抓到了也沒有用啊因為就沒有法所以這個為什麼我會這麼快去排這個海蘭三法因為非常重要因為我們發現\n\n5\n00:01:35,325 --> 00:01:54,531\n這個故意的甚至有一些這個政治意圖的也越來越多你無法去判斷它到底是經濟還是真的是政治所以我覺得我們就是把它在法的位階做到最好的保護那我們現在其實我們還有另外四法\n\n6\n00:01:56,072 --> 00:02:25,292\n部長我們這另外四法當中其實有牽扯的範圍蠻大的有我們的數位部交通部國防部法務部國營事業民營業者還有我們海委會今天大概還有我們的經濟部其實我們的七法裡面其實相關的非常的多那我們要怎麼做跨部會的協調平台因為我們是三法其他的四法在分屬各部會\n\n7\n00:02:26,172 --> 00:02:47,722\n那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢是讓海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長\n\n8\n00:02:49,649 --> 00:03:05,160\n這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速\n\n9\n00:03:05,620 --> 00:03:22,081\n那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過世犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛\n\n10\n00:03:22,703 --> 00:03:50,055\n就是有犯罪嫌疑的話比方說有過段外力過段疑似他我們可以放航機我們來研判那我們會報警檢察官我們都這個只要是扯斷電纜的外力扯斷我們都視為國安件那都會報警檢察官指揮偵辦因為這樣如果海上許可跟可以確定目標的話我們都會把他代案那現在這個案子的話代案的話航港局都同意我們都因為是扣押的話都會用公務\n\n11\n00:03:50,835 --> 00:04:12,147\n安排船席所以这是在侦办部分第二个部分就是在预防那预防的话这个主管机关中华电信他有一个告警系统所有船舶船长是20公尺以上航速低于5节在海南区左右1公里换句话说可能就滞留可能下锚的那他就会发讯号AS讯号让他要离开\n\n12\n00:04:12,907 --> 00:04:38,318\n不過鴻太58號我們抓到這一艘他是把AIS關掉所以我們就是有這個系統然後我們把可疑傳播96艘航空軍提供給我們資料96艘我們分高中低危險程度我們做不同的管控像鴻太58號就是可疑傳播那他還在海南區那通知又不走所以我們就第一時間就前推布置結果去那邊廣播請他離開\n\n13\n00:04:40,558 --> 00:05:08,163\n一把毛拉起來的時候就把它勾斷是現行犯逮捕的所以我們在預防跟偵辦部分是並重那最後就在跨部會在1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電的案例那1月6號海委會就召開相關部會相關部會來做跨部會協調都有共識那目前都已經落實在七法我們想以後有的司法工具我們會更明確更有效\n\n14\n00:05:09,043 --> 00:05:33,613\n我想我們會盡快把這個執法工具然後能夠讓我們海巡署能夠更有力的去針對這些故意犯或是有一些可能誤闖了或是這個誤失了這個所謂的一個電纜系統所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚可是你講的預防\n\n15\n00:05:35,994 --> 00:05:53,011\n起碼我們如果這個法我們開始跟大家說哪些是不行的而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統所以這個部分這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知這個線我們其實要先告知應該這個圖資都有了嗎\n\n16\n00:05:55,755 --> 00:06:10,887\n保委員在行政院歷次開會都討論過因為以後這罰則非常重也包括過失犯所以要認定就要很明確所以當初決議由主管機關內政部他彙整相關的圖資要公告\n\n17\n00:06:11,627 --> 00:06:34,060\n要公告所以这部分的话是可以当作佐证之一那当然个案施政不一而主我们比方说我们去现场搜证的话我们会起毛有没有勾断痕迹啊还有从雷达航机可以研判到航向那AIS有没有打开有没有接收到等等这部分我们都会那个并案给检察官来参考\n\n18\n00:06:34,480 --> 00:07:02,222\n那最重要跟委員報告在這個案子的話為什麼我們會以後會海面會透明化海巡署可以精準執法除了預防措施以外非常感謝交通部航空局的協助會修相關的規定比方說海船的區域化還有山關化還有船舶化要開AS不開的話會處很重的划船那另外最重要的最重要的就是說在很多都在我們周遭海域滯留\n\n19\n00:07:03,163 --> 00:07:18,179\n我們去趕海象部好很辛苦趕完之後又去而復返那以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶那沒有這些在外海滯留船舶就會減少勾斷海底的風險那這是源頭管理也是精準執法的一項\n\n20\n00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:36,572\n我覺得說我們一定要把整個資訊透明當我們要重罰的時候我們應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解說我的圖資那我想問一下內政部那圖資的部分你們什麼時候可以正式來做公告\n\n21\n00:07:39,745 --> 00:07:56,255\n委員其實特別說明一下其實圖資的部分我們歷年在海底電纜或管道在鋪設的時候就已經收集所有相關圖資都已經建置完畢當然分為兩個區塊一個是提供這些船舶船舶上面有ADIS系統都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資\n\n22\n00:08:00,117 --> 00:08:22,559\n但另外一個各部會借街的部分我們也提供給海口會那海巡署那甚至是海港局去做借街未來再做船舶管控上海港都可以搜尋到是有一個圖資系統所以剛剛那個副署長有說嘛要做正式的一個公告嘛雖然過去我想我們可以搜尋到這些資料可是我們沒有因為既然海欄企劃我們是加重\n\n23\n00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:43,386\n好那加重之後我們就跟大家說哪裡是有我們的圖資的我們正式要去做公告我覺得這個動作一定要做雖然我們已經以前就有了可是很多人都會當成沒看到那我們就正式公告在哪一個地方有我們整個海底相關電纜的\n\n24\n00:08:45,407 --> 00:08:56,806\n所有管線的一個圖資那麼這個部分跟他們說明之後我們要去執法是不是那個內政部可以這樣做呢\n\n25\n00:08:57,618 --> 00:09:19,831\n特別跟委員說明一下其實海嵐或管道精確的路由去做公告這之前已經有討論過那其實我們當時有收集到像李安豐店廠商他們覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海嵐圖資那他們會有一些疑慮啦比如說會有特別有心人士會去做勾勞啦所以當時是有考慮過我們現在就說沒有啊我們現在已經加重罰則了就跟你說不行啦\n\n26\n00:09:25,394 --> 00:09:50,596\n你自己還要去跟人碰法觸法那就是你的問題啊在之前我們海嵐棋法沒有訂的時候可能會有這樣的疑慮嘛因為他故意去做勾斷的動作我們也無法可管了但現在已經棋法已經做了甚至航管法跟商港法都要修了如果是這樣子的話我們如果沒有一個宣示性\n\n27\n00:09:51,437 --> 00:10:08,162\n我告訴你最後在檢調判刑的時候或是要去做實施之處分的時候都會有問題所以我覺得這個很重要雖然我們已經有了這個離岸風電的他會擔心可是我們已經跟你說不行了\n\n28\n00:10:09,602 --> 00:10:36,935\n你自己要責那當然我們的法就要出動啦所以我覺得既然我們已經從嚴了就不要考慮那麼多以前是沒有法則所以怕他去把你故意勾斷你也無法可管也沒有辦法去做強制處分現在是可以了所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來減少在訴訟的爭議這個很重要再麻煩大家謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5325\t29830\t我們請部長來 請工部長部長我們總共有海覽七法那在我們經濟委員會是三法那第二個是電業法它是相關要保護我們海底的電力電纜那如果說我們這一次有新增了過失範\n30630\t49159\t的罰則還有可沒收犯罪的工具傳播就是說讓你們更有這個執行的方向以前是沒有的所以不知道怎麼去處罰他們也不會害怕因為就無法可管嘛那天然氣事業法要保護海底的輸氣管線\n50499\t76929\t我們新增了過失犯的罰則也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具還有船舶然後自來水法也是我們是針對海底送水管線那也是新增了過失犯的罰則還有可沒收的犯罪工具跟船舶大概我們這一次是給了我們更有可以執行的方向而且我們沒有這個\n79151\t92704\t這些法令的話根本我們去說規範我們就不理你了即使抓到了也沒有用啊因為就沒有法所以這個為什麼我會這麼快去排這個海蘭三法因為非常重要因為我們發現\n95325\t114531\t這個故意的甚至有一些這個政治意圖的也越來越多你無法去判斷它到底是經濟還是真的是政治所以我覺得我們就是把它在法的位階做到最好的保護那我們現在其實我們還有另外四法\n116072\t145292\t部長 我們這另外四法當中其實有牽扯的範圍蠻大的有我們的數位部 交通部 國防部法務部 國營事業 民營業者還有我們海委會 今天大概還有我們的經濟部其實我們的七法裡面其實相關的非常的多那我們要怎麼做跨部會的協調平台因為我們是三法其他的四法在分屬各部會\n146172\t167722\t那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢是讓海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長\n169649\t185160\t這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速\n185620\t202081\t那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過世犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛\n202703\t230055\t就是有犯罪嫌疑的話比方說有過段外力過段疑似他我們可以放航機我們來研判那我們會報警檢察官我們都這個只要是扯斷電纜的外力扯斷我們都視為國安件那都會報警檢察官指揮偵辦因為這樣如果海上許可跟可以確定目標的話我們都會把他代案那現在這個案子的話代案的話 航港局都同意我們都因為是扣押的話都會用公務\n230835\t252147\t安排船席所以这是在侦办部分第二个部分就是在预防那预防的话这个主管机关中华电信他有一个告警系统所有船舶船长是20公尺以上航速低于5节在海南区左右1公里换句话说可能就滞留可能下锚的那他就会发讯号AS讯号让他要离开\n252907\t278318\t不過鴻太58號我們抓到這一艘他是把AIS關掉所以我們就是有這個系統然後我們把可疑傳播96艘航空軍提供給我們資料96艘我們分高中低危險程度我們做不同的管控像鴻太58號就是可疑傳播那他還在海南區那通知又不走所以我們就第一時間就前推布置結果去那邊廣播請他離開\n280558\t308163\t一把毛拉起來的時候就把它勾斷是現行犯逮捕的所以我們在預防跟偵辦部分是並重那最後就在跨部會在1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電的案例那1月6號海委會就召開相關部會相關部會來做跨部會協調都有共識那目前都已經落實在七法我們想以後有的司法工具我們會更明確更有效\n309043\t333613\t我想我們會盡快把這個執法工具然後能夠讓我們海巡署能夠更有力的去針對這些故意犯或是有一些可能誤闖了或是這個誤失了這個所謂的一個電纜系統所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚可是你講的預防\n335994\t353011\t起碼我們如果這個法我們開始跟大家說哪些是不行的而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統所以這個部分這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知這個線我們其實要先告知應該這個圖資都有了嗎\n355755\t370887\t保委員在行政院歷次開會都討論過因為以後這罰則非常重也包括過失犯所以要認定就要很明確所以當初決議由主管機關內政部他彙整相關的圖資要公告\n371627\t394060\t要公告所以这部分的话是可以当作佐证之一那当然个案施政不一而主我们比方说我们去现场搜证的话我们会起毛有没有勾断痕迹啊还有从雷达航机可以研判到航向那AIS有没有打开有没有接收到等等这部分我们都会那个并案给检察官来参考\n394480\t422222\t那最重要跟委員報告在這個案子的話為什麼我們會以後會海面會透明化海巡署可以精準執法除了預防措施以外非常感謝交通部航空局的協助會修相關的規定比方說海船的區域化還有山關化還有船舶化要開AS不開的話會處很重的划船那另外最重要的最重要的就是說在很多都在我們周遭海域滯留\n423163\t438179\t我們去趕海象部好很辛苦趕完之後又去而復返那以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶那沒有這些在外海滯留船舶就會減少勾斷海底的風險那這是源頭管理也是精準執法的一項\n438860\t456572\t我覺得說我們一定要把整個資訊透明當我們要重罰的時候我們應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解說我的圖資那我想問一下內政部那圖資的部分你們什麼時候可以正式來做公告\n459745\t476255\t委員 其實特別說明一下 其實圖資的部分 我們歷年在海底電纜或管道在鋪設的時候就已經收集所有相關圖資都已經建置完畢當然分為兩個區塊 一個是提供這些船舶 船舶上面有ADIS系統 都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資\n480117\t502559\t但另外一個各部會借街的部分我們也提供給海口會 那海巡署那甚至是海港局去做借街未來再做船舶管控上海港都可以搜尋到是有一個圖資系統所以剛剛那個副署長有說嘛要做正式的一個公告嘛雖然過去我想我們可以搜尋到這些資料可是我們沒有因為既然海欄企劃我們是加重\n503280\t523386\t好那加重之後我們就跟大家說哪裡是有我們的圖資的我們正式要去做公告我覺得這個動作一定要做雖然我們已經以前就有了可是很多人都會當成沒看到那我們就正式公告在哪一個地方有我們整個海底相關電纜的\n525407\t536806\t所有管線的一個圖資那麼這個部分跟他們說明之後我們要去執法是不是那個內政部可以這樣做呢\n537618\t559831\t特別跟委員說明一下其實海嵐或管道精確的路由去做公告這之前已經有討論過那其實我們當時有收集到像李安豐店廠商他們覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海嵐圖資那他們會有一些疑慮啦比如說會有特別有心人士會去做勾勞啦所以當時是有考慮過我們現在就說沒有啊我們現在已經加重罰則了就跟你說不行啦\n565394\t590596\t你自己還要去跟人碰法 觸法那就是你的問題啊在之前我們海嵐棋法沒有訂的時候可能會有這樣的疑慮嘛因為他故意去做勾斷的動作我們也無法可管了但現在已經棋法已經做了甚至航管法跟商港法都要修了如果是這樣子的話我們如果沒有一個宣示性\n591437\t608162\t我告訴你最後在檢調判刑的時候或是要去做實施之處分的時候都會有問題所以我覺得這個很重要雖然我們已經有了這個離岸風電的他會擔心可是我們已經跟你說不行了\n609602\t636935\t你自己要責 那當然我們的法就要出動啦所以我覺得 既然我們已經從嚴了就不要考慮那麼多 以前是沒有法則 所以怕他去把你故意勾斷你也無法可管 也沒有辦法去做強制處分現在是可以了所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來減少在訴訟的爭議這個很重要 再麻煩大家 謝謝\n","txt":"我們請部長來 請工部長部長我們總共有海覽七法那在我們經濟委員會是三法那第二個是電業法它是相關要保護我們海底的電力電纜那如果說我們這一次有新增了過失範\n的罰則還有可沒收犯罪的工具傳播就是說讓你們更有這個執行的方向以前是沒有的所以不知道怎麼去處罰他們也不會害怕因為就無法可管嘛那天然氣事業法要保護海底的輸氣管線\n我們新增了過失犯的罰則也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具還有船舶然後自來水法也是我們是針對海底送水管線那也是新增了過失犯的罰則還有可沒收的犯罪工具跟船舶大概我們這一次是給了我們更有可以執行的方向而且我們沒有這個\n這些法令的話根本我們去說規範我們就不理你了即使抓到了也沒有用啊因為就沒有法所以這個為什麼我會這麼快去排這個海蘭三法因為非常重要因為我們發現\n這個故意的甚至有一些這個政治意圖的也越來越多你無法去判斷它到底是經濟還是真的是政治所以我覺得我們就是把它在法的位階做到最好的保護那我們現在其實我們還有另外四法\n部長 我們這另外四法當中其實有牽扯的範圍蠻大的有我們的數位部 交通部 國防部法務部 國營事業 民營業者還有我們海委會 今天大概還有我們的經濟部其實我們的七法裡面其實相關的非常的多那我們要怎麼做跨部會的協調平台因為我們是三法其他的四法在分屬各部會\n那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢是讓海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長\n這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速\n那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過世犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛\n就是有犯罪嫌疑的話比方說有過段外力過段疑似他我們可以放航機我們來研判那我們會報警檢察官我們都這個只要是扯斷電纜的外力扯斷我們都視為國安件那都會報警檢察官指揮偵辦因為這樣如果海上許可跟可以確定目標的話我們都會把他代案那現在這個案子的話代案的話 航港局都同意我們都因為是扣押的話都會用公務\n安排船席所以这是在侦办部分第二个部分就是在预防那预防的话这个主管机关中华电信他有一个告警系统所有船舶船长是20公尺以上航速低于5节在海南区左右1公里换句话说可能就滞留可能下锚的那他就会发讯号AS讯号让他要离开\n不過鴻太58號我們抓到這一艘他是把AIS關掉所以我們就是有這個系統然後我們把可疑傳播96艘航空軍提供給我們資料96艘我們分高中低危險程度我們做不同的管控像鴻太58號就是可疑傳播那他還在海南區那通知又不走所以我們就第一時間就前推布置結果去那邊廣播請他離開\n一把毛拉起來的時候就把它勾斷是現行犯逮捕的所以我們在預防跟偵辦部分是並重那最後就在跨部會在1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電的案例那1月6號海委會就召開相關部會相關部會來做跨部會協調都有共識那目前都已經落實在七法我們想以後有的司法工具我們會更明確更有效\n我想我們會盡快把這個執法工具然後能夠讓我們海巡署能夠更有力的去針對這些故意犯或是有一些可能誤闖了或是這個誤失了這個所謂的一個電纜系統所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚可是你講的預防\n起碼我們如果這個法我們開始跟大家說哪些是不行的而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統所以這個部分這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知這個線我們其實要先告知應該這個圖資都有了嗎\n保委員在行政院歷次開會都討論過因為以後這罰則非常重也包括過失犯所以要認定就要很明確所以當初決議由主管機關內政部他彙整相關的圖資要公告\n要公告所以这部分的话是可以当作佐证之一那当然个案施政不一而主我们比方说我们去现场搜证的话我们会起毛有没有勾断痕迹啊还有从雷达航机可以研判到航向那AIS有没有打开有没有接收到等等这部分我们都会那个并案给检察官来参考\n那最重要跟委員報告在這個案子的話為什麼我們會以後會海面會透明化海巡署可以精準執法除了預防措施以外非常感謝交通部航空局的協助會修相關的規定比方說海船的區域化還有山關化還有船舶化要開AS不開的話會處很重的划船那另外最重要的最重要的就是說在很多都在我們周遭海域滯留\n我們去趕海象部好很辛苦趕完之後又去而復返那以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶那沒有這些在外海滯留船舶就會減少勾斷海底的風險那這是源頭管理也是精準執法的一項\n我覺得說我們一定要把整個資訊透明當我們要重罰的時候我們應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解說我的圖資那我想問一下內政部那圖資的部分你們什麼時候可以正式來做公告\n委員 其實特別說明一下 其實圖資的部分 我們歷年在海底電纜或管道在鋪設的時候就已經收集所有相關圖資都已經建置完畢當然分為兩個區塊 一個是提供這些船舶 船舶上面有ADIS系統 都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資\n但另外一個各部會借街的部分我們也提供給海口會 那海巡署那甚至是海港局去做借街未來再做船舶管控上海港都可以搜尋到是有一個圖資系統所以剛剛那個副署長有說嘛要做正式的一個公告嘛雖然過去我想我們可以搜尋到這些資料可是我們沒有因為既然海欄企劃我們是加重\n好那加重之後我們就跟大家說哪裡是有我們的圖資的我們正式要去做公告我覺得這個動作一定要做雖然我們已經以前就有了可是很多人都會當成沒看到那我們就正式公告在哪一個地方有我們整個海底相關電纜的\n所有管線的一個圖資那麼這個部分跟他們說明之後我們要去執法是不是那個內政部可以這樣做呢\n特別跟委員說明一下其實海嵐或管道精確的路由去做公告這之前已經有討論過那其實我們當時有收集到像李安豐店廠商他們覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海嵐圖資那他們會有一些疑慮啦比如說會有特別有心人士會去做勾勞啦所以當時是有考慮過我們現在就說沒有啊我們現在已經加重罰則了就跟你說不行啦\n你自己還要去跟人碰法 觸法那就是你的問題啊在之前我們海嵐棋法沒有訂的時候可能會有這樣的疑慮嘛因為他故意去做勾斷的動作我們也無法可管了但現在已經棋法已經做了甚至航管法跟商港法都要修了如果是這樣子的話我們如果沒有一個宣示性\n我告訴你最後在檢調判刑的時候或是要去做實施之處分的時候都會有問題所以我覺得這個很重要雖然我們已經有了這個離岸風電的他會擔心可是我們已經跟你說不行了\n你自己要責 那當然我們的法就要出動啦所以我覺得 既然我們已經從嚴了就不要考慮那麼多 以前是沒有法則 所以怕他去把你故意勾斷你也無法可管 也沒有辦法去做強制處分現在是可以了所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來減少在訴訟的爭議這個很重要 再麻煩大家 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.325 --> 00:29.830\n我們請部長來請工部長部長我們總共有海覽七法那在我們經濟委員會是三法那第二個是電業法它是相關要保護我們海底的電力電纜那如果說我們這一次有新增了過失範\n\n00:30.630 --> 00:49.159\n的罰則還有可沒收犯罪的工具傳播就是說讓你們更有這個執行的方向以前是沒有的所以不知道怎麼去處罰他們也不會害怕因為就無法可管嘛那天然氣事業法要保護海底的輸氣管線\n\n00:50.499 --> 01:16.929\n我們新增了過失犯的罰則也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具還有船舶然後自來水法也是我們是針對海底送水管線那也是新增了過失犯的罰則還有可沒收的犯罪工具跟船舶大概我們這一次是給了我們更有可以執行的方向而且我們沒有這個\n\n01:19.151 --> 01:32.704\n這些法令的話根本我們去說規範我們就不理你了即使抓到了也沒有用啊因為就沒有法所以這個為什麼我會這麼快去排這個海蘭三法因為非常重要因為我們發現\n\n01:35.325 --> 01:54.531\n這個故意的甚至有一些這個政治意圖的也越來越多你無法去判斷它到底是經濟還是真的是政治所以我覺得我們就是把它在法的位階做到最好的保護那我們現在其實我們還有另外四法\n\n01:56.072 --> 02:25.292\n部長我們這另外四法當中其實有牽扯的範圍蠻大的有我們的數位部交通部國防部法務部國營事業民營業者還有我們海委會今天大概還有我們的經濟部其實我們的七法裡面其實相關的非常的多那我們要怎麼做跨部會的協調平台因為我們是三法其他的四法在分屬各部會\n\n02:26.172 --> 02:47.722\n那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢是讓海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長\n\n02:49.649 --> 03:05.160\n這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速\n\n03:05.620 --> 03:22.081\n那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過世犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛\n\n03:22.703 --> 03:50.055\n就是有犯罪嫌疑的話比方說有過段外力過段疑似他我們可以放航機我們來研判那我們會報警檢察官我們都這個只要是扯斷電纜的外力扯斷我們都視為國安件那都會報警檢察官指揮偵辦因為這樣如果海上許可跟可以確定目標的話我們都會把他代案那現在這個案子的話代案的話航港局都同意我們都因為是扣押的話都會用公務\n\n03:50.835 --> 04:12.147\n安排船席所以这是在侦办部分第二个部分就是在预防那预防的话这个主管机关中华电信他有一个告警系统所有船舶船长是20公尺以上航速低于5节在海南区左右1公里换句话说可能就滞留可能下锚的那他就会发讯号AS讯号让他要离开\n\n04:12.907 --> 04:38.318\n不過鴻太58號我們抓到這一艘他是把AIS關掉所以我們就是有這個系統然後我們把可疑傳播96艘航空軍提供給我們資料96艘我們分高中低危險程度我們做不同的管控像鴻太58號就是可疑傳播那他還在海南區那通知又不走所以我們就第一時間就前推布置結果去那邊廣播請他離開\n\n04:40.558 --> 05:08.163\n一把毛拉起來的時候就把它勾斷是現行犯逮捕的所以我們在預防跟偵辦部分是並重那最後就在跨部會在1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電的案例那1月6號海委會就召開相關部會相關部會來做跨部會協調都有共識那目前都已經落實在七法我們想以後有的司法工具我們會更明確更有效\n\n05:09.043 --> 05:33.613\n我想我們會盡快把這個執法工具然後能夠讓我們海巡署能夠更有力的去針對這些故意犯或是有一些可能誤闖了或是這個誤失了這個所謂的一個電纜系統所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚可是你講的預防\n\n05:35.994 --> 05:53.011\n起碼我們如果這個法我們開始跟大家說哪些是不行的而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統所以這個部分這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知這個線我們其實要先告知應該這個圖資都有了嗎\n\n05:55.755 --> 06:10.887\n保委員在行政院歷次開會都討論過因為以後這罰則非常重也包括過失犯所以要認定就要很明確所以當初決議由主管機關內政部他彙整相關的圖資要公告\n\n06:11.627 --> 06:34.060\n要公告所以这部分的话是可以当作佐证之一那当然个案施政不一而主我们比方说我们去现场搜证的话我们会起毛有没有勾断痕迹啊还有从雷达航机可以研判到航向那AIS有没有打开有没有接收到等等这部分我们都会那个并案给检察官来参考\n\n06:34.480 --> 07:02.222\n那最重要跟委員報告在這個案子的話為什麼我們會以後會海面會透明化海巡署可以精準執法除了預防措施以外非常感謝交通部航空局的協助會修相關的規定比方說海船的區域化還有山關化還有船舶化要開AS不開的話會處很重的划船那另外最重要的最重要的就是說在很多都在我們周遭海域滯留\n\n07:03.163 --> 07:18.179\n我們去趕海象部好很辛苦趕完之後又去而復返那以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶那沒有這些在外海滯留船舶就會減少勾斷海底的風險那這是源頭管理也是精準執法的一項\n\n07:18.860 --> 07:36.572\n我覺得說我們一定要把整個資訊透明當我們要重罰的時候我們應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解說我的圖資那我想問一下內政部那圖資的部分你們什麼時候可以正式來做公告\n\n07:39.745 --> 07:56.255\n委員其實特別說明一下其實圖資的部分我們歷年在海底電纜或管道在鋪設的時候就已經收集所有相關圖資都已經建置完畢當然分為兩個區塊一個是提供這些船舶船舶上面有ADIS系統都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資\n\n08:00.117 --> 08:22.559\n但另外一個各部會借街的部分我們也提供給海口會那海巡署那甚至是海港局去做借街未來再做船舶管控上海港都可以搜尋到是有一個圖資系統所以剛剛那個副署長有說嘛要做正式的一個公告嘛雖然過去我想我們可以搜尋到這些資料可是我們沒有因為既然海欄企劃我們是加重\n\n08:23.280 --> 08:43.386\n好那加重之後我們就跟大家說哪裡是有我們的圖資的我們正式要去做公告我覺得這個動作一定要做雖然我們已經以前就有了可是很多人都會當成沒看到那我們就正式公告在哪一個地方有我們整個海底相關電纜的\n\n08:45.407 --> 08:56.806\n所有管線的一個圖資那麼這個部分跟他們說明之後我們要去執法是不是那個內政部可以這樣做呢\n\n08:57.618 --> 09:19.831\n特別跟委員說明一下其實海嵐或管道精確的路由去做公告這之前已經有討論過那其實我們當時有收集到像李安豐店廠商他們覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海嵐圖資那他們會有一些疑慮啦比如說會有特別有心人士會去做勾勞啦所以當時是有考慮過我們現在就說沒有啊我們現在已經加重罰則了就跟你說不行啦\n\n09:25.394 --> 09:50.596\n你自己還要去跟人碰法觸法那就是你的問題啊在之前我們海嵐棋法沒有訂的時候可能會有這樣的疑慮嘛因為他故意去做勾斷的動作我們也無法可管了但現在已經棋法已經做了甚至航管法跟商港法都要修了如果是這樣子的話我們如果沒有一個宣示性\n\n09:51.437 --> 10:08.162\n我告訴你最後在檢調判刑的時候或是要去做實施之處分的時候都會有問題所以我覺得這個很重要雖然我們已經有了這個離岸風電的他會擔心可是我們已經跟你說不行了\n\n10:09.602 --> 10:36.935\n你自己要責那當然我們的法就要出動啦所以我覺得既然我們已經從嚴了就不要考慮那麼多以前是沒有法則所以怕他去把你故意勾斷你也無法可管也沒有辦法去做強制處分現在是可以了所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來減少在訴訟的爭議這個很重要再麻煩大家謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.325,"end":29.83,"text":"我們請部長來 請工部長部長我們總共有海覽七法那在我們經濟委員會是三法那第二個是電業法它是相關要保護我們海底的電力電纜那如果說我們這一次有新增了過失範"},{"start":30.63,"end":49.159,"text":"的罰則還有可沒收犯罪的工具傳播就是說讓你們更有這個執行的方向以前是沒有的所以不知道怎麼去處罰他們也不會害怕因為就無法可管嘛那天然氣事業法要保護海底的輸氣管線"},{"start":50.499,"end":76.929,"text":"我們新增了過失犯的罰則也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具還有船舶然後自來水法也是我們是針對海底送水管線那也是新增了過失犯的罰則還有可沒收的犯罪工具跟船舶大概我們這一次是給了我們更有可以執行的方向而且我們沒有這個"},{"start":79.151,"end":92.704,"text":"這些法令的話根本我們去說規範我們就不理你了即使抓到了也沒有用啊因為就沒有法所以這個為什麼我會這麼快去排這個海蘭三法因為非常重要因為我們發現"},{"start":95.325,"end":114.531,"text":"這個故意的甚至有一些這個政治意圖的也越來越多你無法去判斷它到底是經濟還是真的是政治所以我覺得我們就是把它在法的位階做到最好的保護那我們現在其實我們還有另外四法"},{"start":116.072,"end":145.292,"text":"部長 我們這另外四法當中其實有牽扯的範圍蠻大的有我們的數位部 交通部 國防部法務部 國營事業 民營業者還有我們海委會 今天大概還有我們的經濟部其實我們的七法裡面其實相關的非常的多那我們要怎麼做跨部會的協調平台因為我們是三法其他的四法在分屬各部會"},{"start":146.172,"end":167.722,"text":"那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢是讓海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長"},{"start":169.649,"end":185.16,"text":"這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速"},{"start":185.62,"end":202.081,"text":"那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過世犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛"},{"start":202.703,"end":230.055,"text":"就是有犯罪嫌疑的話比方說有過段外力過段疑似他我們可以放航機我們來研判那我們會報警檢察官我們都這個只要是扯斷電纜的外力扯斷我們都視為國安件那都會報警檢察官指揮偵辦因為這樣如果海上許可跟可以確定目標的話我們都會把他代案那現在這個案子的話代案的話 航港局都同意我們都因為是扣押的話都會用公務"},{"start":230.835,"end":252.147,"text":"安排船席所以这是在侦办部分第二个部分就是在预防那预防的话这个主管机关中华电信他有一个告警系统所有船舶船长是20公尺以上航速低于5节在海南区左右1公里换句话说可能就滞留可能下锚的那他就会发讯号AS讯号让他要离开"},{"start":252.907,"end":278.318,"text":"不過鴻太58號我們抓到這一艘他是把AIS關掉所以我們就是有這個系統然後我們把可疑傳播96艘航空軍提供給我們資料96艘我們分高中低危險程度我們做不同的管控像鴻太58號就是可疑傳播那他還在海南區那通知又不走所以我們就第一時間就前推布置結果去那邊廣播請他離開"},{"start":280.558,"end":308.163,"text":"一把毛拉起來的時候就把它勾斷是現行犯逮捕的所以我們在預防跟偵辦部分是並重那最後就在跨部會在1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電的案例那1月6號海委會就召開相關部會相關部會來做跨部會協調都有共識那目前都已經落實在七法我們想以後有的司法工具我們會更明確更有效"},{"start":309.043,"end":333.613,"text":"我想我們會盡快把這個執法工具然後能夠讓我們海巡署能夠更有力的去針對這些故意犯或是有一些可能誤闖了或是這個誤失了這個所謂的一個電纜系統所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚可是你講的預防"},{"start":335.994,"end":353.011,"text":"起碼我們如果這個法我們開始跟大家說哪些是不行的而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統所以這個部分這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知這個線我們其實要先告知應該這個圖資都有了嗎"},{"start":355.755,"end":370.887,"text":"保委員在行政院歷次開會都討論過因為以後這罰則非常重也包括過失犯所以要認定就要很明確所以當初決議由主管機關內政部他彙整相關的圖資要公告"},{"start":371.627,"end":394.06,"text":"要公告所以这部分的话是可以当作佐证之一那当然个案施政不一而主我们比方说我们去现场搜证的话我们会起毛有没有勾断痕迹啊还有从雷达航机可以研判到航向那AIS有没有打开有没有接收到等等这部分我们都会那个并案给检察官来参考"},{"start":394.48,"end":422.222,"text":"那最重要跟委員報告在這個案子的話為什麼我們會以後會海面會透明化海巡署可以精準執法除了預防措施以外非常感謝交通部航空局的協助會修相關的規定比方說海船的區域化還有山關化還有船舶化要開AS不開的話會處很重的划船那另外最重要的最重要的就是說在很多都在我們周遭海域滯留"},{"start":423.163,"end":438.179,"text":"我們去趕海象部好很辛苦趕完之後又去而復返那以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶那沒有這些在外海滯留船舶就會減少勾斷海底的風險那這是源頭管理也是精準執法的一項"},{"start":438.86,"end":456.572,"text":"我覺得說我們一定要把整個資訊透明當我們要重罰的時候我們應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解說我的圖資那我想問一下內政部那圖資的部分你們什麼時候可以正式來做公告"},{"start":459.745,"end":476.255,"text":"委員 其實特別說明一下 其實圖資的部分 我們歷年在海底電纜或管道在鋪設的時候就已經收集所有相關圖資都已經建置完畢當然分為兩個區塊 一個是提供這些船舶 船舶上面有ADIS系統 都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資"},{"start":480.117,"end":502.559,"text":"但另外一個各部會借街的部分我們也提供給海口會 那海巡署那甚至是海港局去做借街未來再做船舶管控上海港都可以搜尋到是有一個圖資系統所以剛剛那個副署長有說嘛要做正式的一個公告嘛雖然過去我想我們可以搜尋到這些資料可是我們沒有因為既然海欄企劃我們是加重"},{"start":503.28,"end":523.386,"text":"好那加重之後我們就跟大家說哪裡是有我們的圖資的我們正式要去做公告我覺得這個動作一定要做雖然我們已經以前就有了可是很多人都會當成沒看到那我們就正式公告在哪一個地方有我們整個海底相關電纜的"},{"start":525.407,"end":536.806,"text":"所有管線的一個圖資那麼這個部分跟他們說明之後我們要去執法是不是那個內政部可以這樣做呢"},{"start":537.618,"end":559.831,"text":"特別跟委員說明一下其實海嵐或管道精確的路由去做公告這之前已經有討論過那其實我們當時有收集到像李安豐店廠商他們覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海嵐圖資那他們會有一些疑慮啦比如說會有特別有心人士會去做勾勞啦所以當時是有考慮過我們現在就說沒有啊我們現在已經加重罰則了就跟你說不行啦"},{"start":565.394,"end":590.596,"text":"你自己還要去跟人碰法 觸法那就是你的問題啊在之前我們海嵐棋法沒有訂的時候可能會有這樣的疑慮嘛因為他故意去做勾斷的動作我們也無法可管了但現在已經棋法已經做了甚至航管法跟商港法都要修了如果是這樣子的話我們如果沒有一個宣示性"},{"start":591.437,"end":608.162,"text":"我告訴你最後在檢調判刑的時候或是要去做實施之處分的時候都會有問題所以我覺得這個很重要雖然我們已經有了這個離岸風電的他會擔心可是我們已經跟你說不行了"},{"start":609.602,"end":636.935,"text":"你自己要責 那當然我們的法就要出動啦所以我覺得 既然我們已經從嚴了就不要考慮那麼多 以前是沒有法則 所以怕他去把你故意勾斷你也無法可管 也沒有辦法去做強制處分現在是可以了所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來減少在訴訟的爭議這個很重要 再麻煩大家 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":306,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時43分）請部長。"],["主席（邱委員議瑩代）：請龔部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：召委好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我們總共有海纜七法嘛！在經濟委員會是三法。第一個是電業法，它是要保護我們海底電力電纜，如果這一次有新增過失犯的罰則，還有可沒收犯罪工具、船舶，就能讓你們更有執行方向。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，沒有錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：以前是沒有的，所以不知道怎麼去處罰，他們也不會害怕，因為無法可管嘛！天然氣事業法要保護海底輸氣管線，新增過失犯的罰則，也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具，還有船舶；然後自來水法是針對海底送水管線，也是新增過失犯罰則，還有可沒收犯罪工具及船舶。大概這一次是給你們有更可以執行的方向，而且沒有這些法令的話，你們去規勸，人家根本就不理你，即使抓到了也沒有用，因為沒有法，所以這就是為什麼我會這麼快去排海纜三法，因為非常重要。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝委員，謝謝召委。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我們發現故意的、甚至一些有政治意圖的也越來越多，你無法去判斷他到底是因為經濟還是真的是政治，所以我覺得我們就是在法的位階來做到最好的保護。","現在其實還有另外四法，部長，另外四法當中牽扯的範圍滿大的，有數位部、交通部、國防部、法務部、國營事業、民營業者，還有海委會、經濟部，七法裡面相關的非常多，要怎麼做跨部會的協調平臺？因為我們是三法，其他四法分屬各部會，今天如果發生問題的時候，誰去做直接執法？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，真正在執行海上保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務，我們法定了以後是讓海巡有一個工具。"],["陳委員亭妃：海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們請海巡署副署長。"],["龔部長明鑫：就是移送檢調機關有一個法可以依循。"],["陳委員亭妃：由檢調機關依照這些法去做處置，可是其嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定？來，副署長。"],["謝副署長慶欽：跟委員報告，海上執法機關是海委會海巡署，現在這個法規定之後，非常明確地明定違法要件，包括過失犯、包括涉案的船舶不問是否為犯罪人所有就得以沒收。另外還有加重刑責，最重要的是……"],["陳委員亭妃：發現就可以先扣，是不是？"],["謝副署長慶欽：就是有犯罪嫌疑的話，比方說疑似有外力勾斷，我們可以放航跡來研判，我們會報請檢察官。只要是外力扯斷電纜者，我們都視為國安案件，會報請檢察官指揮偵辦。原則上，如果海象許可及可以確定目標的話，我們都會把它帶案，現在案子帶案的話，航港局也都同意，因為是扣押，都會用公務安排船席，所以這是在偵辦部分。","第二個部分就是在預防，預防的話，主管機關中華電信還有一個告警系統，所有船舶船長是20公尺以上，航速低於5節，在海纜區左右1公里，換句話說，可能滯留或可能下錨的，它就會發AIS訊號要他離開，不過我們抓到的這艘宏泰58號，它是把AIS關掉。所以我們就是有這個系統，然後我們把可疑船舶96艘，這是由航港局提供給我們的資料，我們分高、中、低危險程度做不同的管控，像宏泰58號就是可疑船舶，它還在海纜區，通知又不走，所以我們第一時間就前推布置，結果去到那邊廣播請它離開，他把錨拉起來的時候就把它勾斷，是現行犯逮捕的，所以我們在預防跟偵辦的部分是並重。","最後就是跨部會，1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電纜案例，1月6號海委會就召集相關部會來做跨部會協調，都有共識，目前都已經在落實七法，以後有這些執法工具，我們會更明確、更有效。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們會儘快把這個執法工具能夠讓海巡署更有力地去針對這些故意犯，或是有一些可能誤闖或是因過失毀壞電纜系統，所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚，可是你講的預防，起碼如果有這個法開始跟大家說哪些是不行的，而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統，所以這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知？這個其實要先告知，相關圖資應該都有了嗎？"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，在行政院歷次開會也都討論過，因為以後這個罰則非常重，也包括過失犯，所以認定就要很明確，當初決議由主管機關內政部彙整相關的圖資要公告，這部分的話是可以當作佐證之一。當然個案事證不一而足，比方說，我們去現場蒐證的話，我們會起錨看有沒有勾斷痕跡，還有從雷達航跡可以研判到航向、AIS有沒有打開、有沒有接收到等等，這些部分我們都會併案給檢察官來參考。最重要跟委員報告，在這個案子的話，為什麼我們以後海面會透明化、海巡署可以精準執法？除了預防措施以外，非常感謝交通部航港局的協助，會修相關的規定，比方說海纜七法還有商港法、船舶法，要開AIS，不開的話會處很重的罰鍰。另外最重要的就是，很多都在我們周遭海域滯留，我們去趕，海象不好很辛苦，趕完之後又驅而復返，以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶，沒有這些在外海滯留的船舶，就會減少勾斷海纜的風險，這也是源頭管理，也是精準執法的一項。"],["陳委員亭妃：我覺得我們一定要把整個資訊透明，當我們要重罰的時候，應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解圖資。我想問一下內政部，圖資的部分，你們什麼時候可以正式公告？"],["張簡任視察則民：委員，特別說明一下，其實圖資的部分，我們歷年在海底電纜或管道鋪設的時候就已經蒐集所有相關圖資，都已經建置完畢，分為兩個區塊，一個是提供這些船舶，船舶上面有ECDIS系統，都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資；另外一個，各部會介接的部分，我們也提供給海委會、海巡署，甚至航港局去做介接，未來在船舶管控上來講，都可以搜尋到既有的圖資系統。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以剛剛副署長有說要做正式的一個公告，雖然過去我們可以搜尋到這些資料，可是我們沒有，既然海纜七法是加重，加重之後，我們就跟大家說哪裡是有圖資的，我們正式要去做公告，我覺得這個動作一定要做，雖然我們以前就有了，可是很多人都會當成沒看到，那我們就正式公告，在哪一個地方有整個海底相關電纜的所有管線圖資，這個部分跟他們說明之後，我們要去執法才不會有爭議。是不是內政部可以這樣做呢？"],["張簡任視察則民：特別跟委員說明一下，其實海纜或管道的精確路線有公告，這之前也已經有討論過。"],["陳委員亭妃：對。"],["張簡任視察則民：其實我們當時有蒐集到，但離岸風電廠商覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海纜圖資，他們會有一些疑慮，比如有心人士會特別去勾撈，所以當時有考慮過。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有啊！我們現在已經加重罰則了，就跟他說不行了，若他自己還要去碰法、觸法，那就是他的問題啊！在之前海纜七法沒有修正的時候，可能會有這樣的疑慮，因為他故意去做勾斷的動作，我們也無法可管，但現在七法已經做了，甚至船舶法跟商港法都要修了。如果是這樣子的話，我們假如沒有一個宣示性的作為，我告訴你，最後在檢調、判刑的時候或是要去做實質處分的時候都會有問題，所以我覺得這個很重要。雖然我們已經有了，但離岸風電的會擔心，可是我們已經跟他說不行了，他自己要做，當然我們的法就要出動了。我覺得既然我們已經從嚴了，就不要考慮那麼多，以前是沒有罰則，所以他們不會怕啊！他去故意勾斷，你也無法可管，也沒有辦法去做強制處分，現在可以了，所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來可以減少訴訟的爭議，這個很重要，再麻煩大家，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員亭妃）：謝謝邱議瑩委員。","現在請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-8","speakers":["陳亭妃","羅美玲","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","賴士葆","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","鄭正鈐","黃捷","張嘉郡","林楚茵","陳超明"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美\n惠等20人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「電\n業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具\n「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「電業法第七十一\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院\n委員黃捷等22人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬\n具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「電業法第七十\n一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查： ( 一) 行政院函請審議「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員王美惠等20人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員李坤城等18人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗\n華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本\n院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美\n玲等19人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬\n具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「天然氣事\n業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十\n五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委\n員王美惠等19人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人\n擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來\n水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬\n具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「自來水法第\n九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案（合併詢答）","agenda_id":"1148901_00007"}}}