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\"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 667.189, \"end\": 667.269, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 667.269, \"end\": 667.289, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,021 --> 00:00:20,091\n很好那個彭主委是那個這個報紙的標題做了很大這個穩定幣發行納管拼明年上路看到沒有這麼大還看不到是不是我待會請人送過去那個明年上路明明現在要進入第四階段現在目前還躺在行政院裡頭\n\n2\n00:00:20,851 --> 00:00:36,719\n要法律通過才會第四階段對我知道然後如果你這麼有信心常常談到行政院立法院現在變化多數那我請問一下如果明年可以上路的話最有可能是明年上半年還是下半年那個標題不是我下的我沒有這麼說不是你下的喔對我只是說看起來\n\n3\n00:00:37,199 --> 00:00:57,384\n我是說假設立法通過以後我們在半年之內要頒布這個相關的執法所以明年上半年有機會了如果說法律通過後行政機關在半年之內要公布說的立法執法也要半年這半年之內要最後半年之內要公布半年的話如果要上半年那除非這個會期通過嘛這個會期顯然是\n\n4\n00:00:58,964 --> 00:01:21,037\n變數重重這要看大院什麼時候通過其實我們的執法都在準備中行政院都還沒送來就不是大院的問題立法院的問題來主委最近前段時間有些案例知名的餐廳什麼香園賓士東影快車所的老闆與違法的第三方支付非能量登錄的HEROPET合作替海外博弈集團洗錢\n\n5\n00:01:23,118 --> 00:01:50,889\n更誇張的是半年洗30億當然第三方支付書發布的事情但是這裡頭有共管的問題本席在民間還有聽過什麼麵包店按摩店水產店甚至是眼鏡行還有那種24小時的這裡頭有一個特點一個是內需市場二來呢現金流現金流為主為什麼可以做到這種階段呢\n\n6\n00:01:52,335 --> 00:02:15,134\n那照說這些屬於內需市場的服務業它應該沒有所謂的海外除非它有海外據點那個分店或者加盟不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款所以當這些匯款的部分它會透過這個金融單位的時候難道這個銀行就讓它直接\n\n7\n00:02:16,215 --> 00:02:35,744\n把這個高額海外的匯款匯出去嗎雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中但是現在類似這種現象在民間還普遍被討論這個主委是我想剛剛有幾個問題剛剛委員其實講的這是真的因為剛剛提到你也知道嗎沒有\n\n8\n00:02:36,664 --> 00:02:57,700\n這些業態都不是我們現在金管住管但剛才講假設牽涉到匯款特別是匯款就是說這個匯款的部分我們有一套的規定去來做這個限制比如包括最近因為詐騙很盛行我們也針對這一塊我們也在著力但是細節我不能再公開說明我只是說這部分包括反洗錢很多東西都有一定的規範在做\n\n9\n00:02:58,741 --> 00:03:18,669\n當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推會覺得這個是一件不可以的事這是冰山一角這不是單一案例好不好本席今天跟你講說好幾個行業我在民間在跑都聽到了委員講的是我們會從這些案例裡面再回推我們整個在防控上面有沒有漏洞\n\n10\n00:03:19,389 --> 00:03:44,048\n這就是今天我質詢您的重點嘛就是說已經有這種現象檢方好像偵辦了至少他在透過銀行海外匯款的時候我們要如何把關嘛對沒錯就是對異常的交易的部分我們應該會來那為什麼一開始我要問說你穩定幣什麼時候上路跟這個又有關係為什麼因為穩定幣也會變成一種媒介啊對不對它也有可能會造成這樣的結果好我們再看一下\n\n11\n00:03:46,039 --> 00:04:15,359\n穩定幣基本上它也有可能會造成洗錢的工具也就是說我上次的這個部分它不是透過這個銀行匯款而是透過穩定幣的這種部分來進行這個把款項匯出這個部分你要如何去防弊就是說銀行還有一個公司治理的KYC那個問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎\n\n12\n00:04:16,299 --> 00:04:43,856\n我們現在的交易所的話有要加強這個監管的強度嗎你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的現在只是登記制還沒有達到我們的高度監管還沒達到那也就是說將來如果說你開放之後有可能會類似的情況多開放一個管道甚至目前搞不好就有了因為現在交易所目前UB一大堆\n\n13\n00:04:45,417 --> 00:05:03,533\n現在我們9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的對啊已經有了嘛已經有在交易了嘛所以有時候這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看有沒有可能當我們在銀行端的時候緊縮的時候他會不會跑到這邊來對確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分我們有訂定相關的規範\n\n14\n00:05:04,414 --> 00:05:27,122\n對所以我們現在來講比如說他們現在上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易所以我們現在全部都要透過那個法幣帳戶所以它就跟銀行之間產生了未來我們做KYC這些都比較容易做對我意思是說這個部分也應該要求將來對於交易所的部分那另外一個部分因為穩定幣接下來因為它的這個成本低\n\n15\n00:05:27,722 --> 00:05:48,168\n然後交易又快速那這種情況底下他會不會把既有的這個海外的這個外匯的這個交易量的這個內容當中把它替代掉既有外匯替代的可能這個有很多討論就是因為它穩定幣一個人最重要的是跨境支付跨境支付一定是比如說他一定是用這個\n\n16\n00:05:49,989 --> 00:06:16,595\n不同的幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易那我想這部分的話未來的話其實各國都很重視這是我們會跟央行來好好密切來管因為這主要是央行我就講了央行這個問題我問過那個楊總裁他說未來是不是有衝擊要看使用者的對穩定幣有無信心我不曉得你的判斷如何當然所有的貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心就像比如說我們現在那個\n\n17\n00:06:17,995 --> 00:06:42,045\n其中的泰達幣他也沒有受到監管但大家為什麼覺得就是有人信任他但是有人相信因為DC是希望美國監管他才相信對沒有錯通常CCN有市場才有法規市場已經流通過了然後法規才跟進那同樣的方式像那個Swift有一個現實上的一個交換機制但以後的虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似的這一種\n\n18\n00:06:42,985 --> 00:07:08,397\n監理的這個機構那當然是未來監理的重點剛剛有報告過就是我們對剛剛委員講說我們總共7個樣態的Vespa業者裡面其中最核心的大概就是交易平台商他會做了很多業態這未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的就是交易平台商對他的要求也比較多那這個再來就是對他的一些的資本的要求人員的管控這些應該都會比較高\n\n19\n00:07:09,257 --> 00:07:34,298\n有你在相關的八大的執法當中有特別講到對於人員的部分消極跟積極資格我們對各種不同因為我們現在有七大類的幣七大類對其中有一個所謂的交易平台商就是我們講類似虛幣的交易所這個概念他會做到很多其他業務這是很重要的部分我們在內部執法裡面我們已經會做分級的管理會做一些分級的管理\n\n20\n00:07:35,519 --> 00:07:53,546\n所以但是看起來總體而言有沒有可能那個金管會跟央行對於這流進來現在主要是這個UB維多這個部分的流進的這個部分的流量還有流出的這個部分將來有一個海外匯款的一個申報機制的可能性有沒有\n\n21\n00:07:53,826 --> 00:08:19,037\n有我想說剛剛那個包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面這裡面他要呈報的資訊裡面我們Vespa比如說這個KYC他換了這些的量這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西應該都未來都是會滿重的就是說業者會字節然後通報給主管機關這個就是他被納管最基本的要求最基本的要求所以說都會做一個基本的一個流量管控當然好那接下來還有一個部分\n\n22\n00:08:21,118 --> 00:08:43,921\n現階段我們的穩定幣在世界上最主流的部分泰達幣還有Circle的部分發行的UB這兩種為主一個大家占七成多一個大家占兩成多現階段的話穩定幣最關鍵的就目前官方所透露除了銀行之外還沒有可能誰可以發行\n\n23\n00:08:44,361 --> 00:09:12,986\n其實按照國外它實際上當然最重要是所謂的就是銀行機構再來還有其他像美國的話它有經過他們聯邦同意也可以還有就是比如說像比如說以香港為例它也沒有限制說比如說很多電商也有可能來申請沒有就一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性像剛剛委員提到那個兩大USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的是這樣\n\n24\n00:09:14,927 --> 00:09:35,163\n對剛才那兩大就是USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的對就不是嘛那我是不是說在台灣呢在台灣因為我們現在的規定你的穩定幣的話要金融機構先發行嘛對不對我們是參照MICA的我們沒有在法律上把它限縮但是我們在很多公開的場合我們說我們基於省鎮\n\n25\n00:09:36,564 --> 00:10:01,481\n審慎的態度我們會優先的由金融機構來發行對我知道我是說衍生後面的部分有沒有可能其他的好那另外目前好像沒有國際的業者落地是不是我們監管得太嚴了沒有我想我們在這個專法裡面就有一個有針對國外VASP來申請我想這個我們都是開放的未來的話我們也會針對境外像剛剛講有穩定幣來講在境外就是專法之後會比較更開放就是了對它會有明確的遊戲規則好那最後一個問題\n\n26\n00:10:05,484 --> 00:10:21,119\n那有關於這些交易所的部分有沒有可能開放一些隱身性的商品就如同去年本席在擔任這個招委的時候有去海外參訪我們去看了日本的穩定幣然後日本的部分基本上的虛擬貨幣的這個監管非常的嚴格\n\n27\n00:10:23,741 --> 00:10:39,656\n即便這麼嚴格的情況底下它還是有開放開放一些衍生性的商品類似像期貨的概念的商品但是需要一些特定的概感比的一個演算法的公司這個有沒有可能是台灣未來走的方向類似於日本\n\n28\n00:10:40,997 --> 00:11:04,623\n衍生性業務的話我剛才在報告裡面也說了就是說我們在那個虛擬資產業務裡面我們留了一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務我們剛才說我們會根據我們現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力以及國際的趨勢我們再看需求隨時可以來做調整看市場發展逐步放寬應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事越漸淺就越多元當然\n\n29\n00:11:06,025 --> 00:11:07,289\n謝謝主委的回覆謝謝國務委員接下來我們請賴會員委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1021\t20091\t很好那個彭主委是那個這個報紙的標題做了很大這個穩定幣發行納管拼明年上路看到沒有這麼大還看不到是不是我待會請人送過去那個明年上路明明現在要進入第四階段現在目前還躺在行政院裡頭\n20851\t36719\t要法律通過才會第四階段對 我知道然後如果你這麼有信心常常談到行政院立法院現在變化多數那我請問一下如果明年可以上路的話最有可能是明年上半年還是下半年那個標題不是我下的我沒有這麼說不是你下的喔對 我只是說看起來\n37199\t57384\t我是說假設立法通過以後我們在半年之內要頒布這個相關的執法所以明年上半年有機會了如果說法律通過後行政機關在半年之內要公布說的立法執法也要半年這半年之內要最後半年之內要公布半年的話如果要上半年那除非這個會期通過嘛這個會期顯然是\n58964\t81037\t變數重重這要看大院什麼時候通過其實我們的執法都在準備中行政院都還沒送來就不是大院的問題立法院的問題來 主委最近前段時間有些案例知名的餐廳什麼香園賓士東影快車所的老闆與違法的第三方支付非能量登錄的HERO PET合作替海外博弈集團洗錢\n83118\t110889\t更誇張的是半年洗30億當然第三方支付書發布的事情但是這裡頭有共管的問題本席在民間還有聽過什麼麵包店 按摩店 水產店甚至是眼鏡行還有那種24小時的這裡頭有一個特點一個是內需市場二來呢 現金流現金流為主為什麼可以做到這種階段呢\n112335\t135134\t那照說這些屬於內需市場的服務業它應該沒有所謂的海外除非它有海外據點那個分店或者加盟不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款所以當這些匯款的部分它會透過這個金融單位的時候難道這個銀行就讓它直接\n136215\t155744\t把這個高額海外的匯款匯出去嗎雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中但是現在類似這種現象在民間還普遍被討論這個主委是我想剛剛有幾個問題剛剛委員其實講的這是真的因為剛剛提到你也知道嗎沒有\n156664\t177700\t這些業態都不是我們現在金管住管但剛才講假設牽涉到匯款特別是匯款就是說這個匯款的部分我們有一套的規定去來做這個限制比如包括最近因為詐騙很盛行我們也針對這一塊我們也在著力但是細節我不能再公開說明我只是說這部分包括反洗錢很多東西都有一定的規範在做\n178741\t198669\t當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推會覺得這個是一件不可以的事這是冰山一角這不是單一案例好不好本席今天跟你講說好幾個行業我在民間在跑都聽到了委員講的是我們會從這些案例裡面再回推我們整個在防控上面有沒有漏洞\n199389\t224048\t這就是今天我質詢您的重點嘛就是說已經有這種現象檢方好像偵辦了至少他在透過銀行海外匯款的時候我們要如何把關嘛對沒錯就是對異常的交易的部分我們應該會來那為什麼一開始我要問說你穩定幣什麼時候上路跟這個又有關係為什麼因為穩定幣也會變成一種媒介啊對不對它也有可能會造成這樣的結果好我們再看一下\n226039\t255359\t穩定幣基本上它也有可能會造成洗錢的工具也就是說我上次的這個部分它不是透過這個銀行匯款而是透過穩定幣的這種部分來進行這個把款項匯出這個部分你要如何去防弊就是說銀行還有一個公司治理的KYC那個問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎\n256299\t283856\t我們現在的交易所的話有要加強這個監管的強度嗎你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的現在只是登記制還沒有達到我們的高度監管還沒達到那也就是說將來如果說你開放之後有可能會類似的情況多開放一個管道甚至目前搞不好就有了因為現在交易所目前UB一大堆\n285417\t303533\t現在我們9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的對啊 已經有了嘛已經有在交易了嘛所以有時候這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看有沒有可能當我們在銀行端的時候緊縮的時候他會不會跑到這邊來對 確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分我們有訂定相關的規範\n304414\t327122\t對 所以我們現在來講比如說他們現在上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易所以我們現在全部都要透過那個法幣帳戶所以它就跟銀行之間產生了未來我們做KYC這些都比較容易做對 我意思是說這個部分也應該要求將來對於交易所的部分那另外一個部分因為穩定幣接下來因為它的這個成本低\n327722\t348168\t然後交易又快速那這種情況底下他會不會把既有的這個海外的這個外匯的這個交易量的這個內容當中把它替代掉既有外匯替代的可能這個有很多討論就是因為它穩定幣一個人最重要的是跨境支付跨境支付一定是比如說他一定是用這個\n349989\t376595\t不同的幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易那我想這部分的話未來的話其實各國都很重視這是我們會跟央行來好好密切來管因為這主要是央行我就講了央行這個問題我問過那個楊總裁他說未來是不是有衝擊要看使用者的對穩定幣有無信心我不曉得你的判斷如何當然所有的貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心就像比如說我們現在那個\n377995\t402045\t其中的泰達幣他也沒有受到監管但大家為什麼覺得就是有人信任他但是有人相信因為DC是希望美國監管他才相信對 沒有錯通常CCN有市場才有法規市場已經流通過了然後法規才跟進那同樣的方式像那個Swift有一個現實上的一個交換機制但以後的虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似的這一種\n402985\t428397\t監理的這個機構那當然是未來監理的重點剛剛有報告過就是我們對剛剛委員講說我們總共7個樣態的Vespa業者裡面其中最核心的大概就是交易平台商他會做了很多業態這未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的就是交易平台商對他的要求也比較多那這個再來就是對他的一些的資本的要求人員的管控這些應該都會比較高\n429257\t454298\t有 你在相關的八大的執法當中有特別講到對於人員的部分消極跟積極資格我們對各種不同因為我們現在有七大類的幣七大類對 其中有一個所謂的交易平台商就是我們講類似虛幣的交易所這個概念他會做到很多其他業務這是很重要的部分我們在內部執法裡面我們已經會做分級的管理會做一些分級的管理\n455519\t473546\t所以但是看起來總體而言有沒有可能那個金管會跟央行對於這流進來現在主要是這個UB維多這個部分的流進的這個部分的流量還有流出的這個部分將來有一個海外匯款的一個申報機制的可能性 有沒有\n473826\t499037\t有 我想說剛剛那個包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面這裡面他要呈報的資訊裡面我們Vespa比如說這個KYC他換了這些的量這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西應該都未來都是會滿重的就是說業者會字節然後通報給主管機關這個就是他被納管最基本的要求最基本的要求所以說都會做一個基本的一個流量管控當然好 那接下來還有一個部分\n501118\t523921\t現階段我們的穩定幣在世界上最主流的部分泰達幣還有Circle的部分發行的UB這兩種為主一個大家占七成多一個大家占兩成多現階段的話穩定幣最關鍵的就目前官方所透露除了銀行之外還沒有可能誰可以發行\n524361\t552986\t其實按照國外它實際上當然最重要是所謂的就是銀行機構再來還有其他像美國的話它有經過他們聯邦同意也可以還有就是比如說像比如說以香港為例它也沒有限制說比如說很多電商也有可能來申請沒有 就一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性像剛剛委員提到那個兩大USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的是這樣\n554927\t575163\t對 剛才那兩大就是USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的對 就不是嘛那我是不是說在台灣呢在台灣因為我們現在的規定你的穩定幣的話要金融機構先發行嘛 對不對我們是參照MICA的我們沒有在法律上把它限縮但是我們在很多公開的場合我們說我們基於省鎮\n576564\t601481\t審慎的態度我們會優先的由金融機構來發行對 我知道我是說衍生後面的部分有沒有可能其他的好 那另外目前好像沒有國際的業者落地是不是我們監管得太嚴了沒有 我想我們在這個專法裡面就有一個有針對國外VASP來申請我想這個我們都是開放的未來的話我們也會針對境外像剛剛講有穩定幣來講在境外就是專法之後會比較更開放就是了對 它會有明確的遊戲規則好 那最後一個問題\n605484\t621119\t那有關於這些交易所的部分有沒有可能開放一些隱身性的商品就如同去年本席在擔任這個招委的時候有去海外參訪我們去看了日本的穩定幣然後日本的部分基本上的虛擬貨幣的這個監管非常的嚴格\n623741\t639656\t即便這麼嚴格的情況底下它還是有開放開放一些衍生性的商品類似像期貨的概念的商品但是需要一些特定的概感比的一個演算法的公司這個有沒有可能是台灣未來走的方向類似於日本\n640997\t664623\t衍生性業務的話我剛才在報告裡面也說了就是說我們在那個虛擬資產業務裡面我們留了一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務我們剛才說我們會根據我們現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力以及國際的趨勢我們再看需求隨時可以來做調整看市場發展逐步放寬應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事越漸淺就越多元當然\n666025\t667289\t謝謝主委的回覆謝謝國務委員接下來我們請賴會員委員\n","txt":"很好那個彭主委是那個這個報紙的標題做了很大這個穩定幣發行納管拼明年上路看到沒有這麼大還看不到是不是我待會請人送過去那個明年上路明明現在要進入第四階段現在目前還躺在行政院裡頭\n要法律通過才會第四階段對 我知道然後如果你這麼有信心常常談到行政院立法院現在變化多數那我請問一下如果明年可以上路的話最有可能是明年上半年還是下半年那個標題不是我下的我沒有這麼說不是你下的喔對 我只是說看起來\n我是說假設立法通過以後我們在半年之內要頒布這個相關的執法所以明年上半年有機會了如果說法律通過後行政機關在半年之內要公布說的立法執法也要半年這半年之內要最後半年之內要公布半年的話如果要上半年那除非這個會期通過嘛這個會期顯然是\n變數重重這要看大院什麼時候通過其實我們的執法都在準備中行政院都還沒送來就不是大院的問題立法院的問題來 主委最近前段時間有些案例知名的餐廳什麼香園賓士東影快車所的老闆與違法的第三方支付非能量登錄的HERO PET合作替海外博弈集團洗錢\n更誇張的是半年洗30億當然第三方支付書發布的事情但是這裡頭有共管的問題本席在民間還有聽過什麼麵包店 按摩店 水產店甚至是眼鏡行還有那種24小時的這裡頭有一個特點一個是內需市場二來呢 現金流現金流為主為什麼可以做到這種階段呢\n那照說這些屬於內需市場的服務業它應該沒有所謂的海外除非它有海外據點那個分店或者加盟不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款所以當這些匯款的部分它會透過這個金融單位的時候難道這個銀行就讓它直接\n把這個高額海外的匯款匯出去嗎雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中但是現在類似這種現象在民間還普遍被討論這個主委是我想剛剛有幾個問題剛剛委員其實講的這是真的因為剛剛提到你也知道嗎沒有\n這些業態都不是我們現在金管住管但剛才講假設牽涉到匯款特別是匯款就是說這個匯款的部分我們有一套的規定去來做這個限制比如包括最近因為詐騙很盛行我們也針對這一塊我們也在著力但是細節我不能再公開說明我只是說這部分包括反洗錢很多東西都有一定的規範在做\n當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推會覺得這個是一件不可以的事這是冰山一角這不是單一案例好不好本席今天跟你講說好幾個行業我在民間在跑都聽到了委員講的是我們會從這些案例裡面再回推我們整個在防控上面有沒有漏洞\n這就是今天我質詢您的重點嘛就是說已經有這種現象檢方好像偵辦了至少他在透過銀行海外匯款的時候我們要如何把關嘛對沒錯就是對異常的交易的部分我們應該會來那為什麼一開始我要問說你穩定幣什麼時候上路跟這個又有關係為什麼因為穩定幣也會變成一種媒介啊對不對它也有可能會造成這樣的結果好我們再看一下\n穩定幣基本上它也有可能會造成洗錢的工具也就是說我上次的這個部分它不是透過這個銀行匯款而是透過穩定幣的這種部分來進行這個把款項匯出這個部分你要如何去防弊就是說銀行還有一個公司治理的KYC那個問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎\n我們現在的交易所的話有要加強這個監管的強度嗎你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的現在只是登記制還沒有達到我們的高度監管還沒達到那也就是說將來如果說你開放之後有可能會類似的情況多開放一個管道甚至目前搞不好就有了因為現在交易所目前UB一大堆\n現在我們9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的對啊 已經有了嘛已經有在交易了嘛所以有時候這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看有沒有可能當我們在銀行端的時候緊縮的時候他會不會跑到這邊來對 確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分我們有訂定相關的規範\n對 所以我們現在來講比如說他們現在上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易所以我們現在全部都要透過那個法幣帳戶所以它就跟銀行之間產生了未來我們做KYC這些都比較容易做對 我意思是說這個部分也應該要求將來對於交易所的部分那另外一個部分因為穩定幣接下來因為它的這個成本低\n然後交易又快速那這種情況底下他會不會把既有的這個海外的這個外匯的這個交易量的這個內容當中把它替代掉既有外匯替代的可能這個有很多討論就是因為它穩定幣一個人最重要的是跨境支付跨境支付一定是比如說他一定是用這個\n不同的幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易那我想這部分的話未來的話其實各國都很重視這是我們會跟央行來好好密切來管因為這主要是央行我就講了央行這個問題我問過那個楊總裁他說未來是不是有衝擊要看使用者的對穩定幣有無信心我不曉得你的判斷如何當然所有的貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心就像比如說我們現在那個\n其中的泰達幣他也沒有受到監管但大家為什麼覺得就是有人信任他但是有人相信因為DC是希望美國監管他才相信對 沒有錯通常CCN有市場才有法規市場已經流通過了然後法規才跟進那同樣的方式像那個Swift有一個現實上的一個交換機制但以後的虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似的這一種\n監理的這個機構那當然是未來監理的重點剛剛有報告過就是我們對剛剛委員講說我們總共7個樣態的Vespa業者裡面其中最核心的大概就是交易平台商他會做了很多業態這未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的就是交易平台商對他的要求也比較多那這個再來就是對他的一些的資本的要求人員的管控這些應該都會比較高\n有 你在相關的八大的執法當中有特別講到對於人員的部分消極跟積極資格我們對各種不同因為我們現在有七大類的幣七大類對 其中有一個所謂的交易平台商就是我們講類似虛幣的交易所這個概念他會做到很多其他業務這是很重要的部分我們在內部執法裡面我們已經會做分級的管理會做一些分級的管理\n所以但是看起來總體而言有沒有可能那個金管會跟央行對於這流進來現在主要是這個UB維多這個部分的流進的這個部分的流量還有流出的這個部分將來有一個海外匯款的一個申報機制的可能性 有沒有\n有 我想說剛剛那個包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面這裡面他要呈報的資訊裡面我們Vespa比如說這個KYC他換了這些的量這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西應該都未來都是會滿重的就是說業者會字節然後通報給主管機關這個就是他被納管最基本的要求最基本的要求所以說都會做一個基本的一個流量管控當然好 那接下來還有一個部分\n現階段我們的穩定幣在世界上最主流的部分泰達幣還有Circle的部分發行的UB這兩種為主一個大家占七成多一個大家占兩成多現階段的話穩定幣最關鍵的就目前官方所透露除了銀行之外還沒有可能誰可以發行\n其實按照國外它實際上當然最重要是所謂的就是銀行機構再來還有其他像美國的話它有經過他們聯邦同意也可以還有就是比如說像比如說以香港為例它也沒有限制說比如說很多電商也有可能來申請沒有 就一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性像剛剛委員提到那個兩大USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的是這樣\n對 剛才那兩大就是USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的對 就不是嘛那我是不是說在台灣呢在台灣因為我們現在的規定你的穩定幣的話要金融機構先發行嘛 對不對我們是參照MICA的我們沒有在法律上把它限縮但是我們在很多公開的場合我們說我們基於省鎮\n審慎的態度我們會優先的由金融機構來發行對 我知道我是說衍生後面的部分有沒有可能其他的好 那另外目前好像沒有國際的業者落地是不是我們監管得太嚴了沒有 我想我們在這個專法裡面就有一個有針對國外VASP來申請我想這個我們都是開放的未來的話我們也會針對境外像剛剛講有穩定幣來講在境外就是專法之後會比較更開放就是了對 它會有明確的遊戲規則好 那最後一個問題\n那有關於這些交易所的部分有沒有可能開放一些隱身性的商品就如同去年本席在擔任這個招委的時候有去海外參訪我們去看了日本的穩定幣然後日本的部分基本上的虛擬貨幣的這個監管非常的嚴格\n即便這麼嚴格的情況底下它還是有開放開放一些衍生性的商品類似像期貨的概念的商品但是需要一些特定的概感比的一個演算法的公司這個有沒有可能是台灣未來走的方向類似於日本\n衍生性業務的話我剛才在報告裡面也說了就是說我們在那個虛擬資產業務裡面我們留了一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務我們剛才說我們會根據我們現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力以及國際的趨勢我們再看需求隨時可以來做調整看市場發展逐步放寬應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事越漸淺就越多元當然\n謝謝主委的回覆謝謝國務委員接下來我們請賴會員委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.021 --> 00:20.091\n很好那個彭主委是那個這個報紙的標題做了很大這個穩定幣發行納管拼明年上路看到沒有這麼大還看不到是不是我待會請人送過去那個明年上路明明現在要進入第四階段現在目前還躺在行政院裡頭\n\n00:20.851 --> 00:36.719\n要法律通過才會第四階段對我知道然後如果你這麼有信心常常談到行政院立法院現在變化多數那我請問一下如果明年可以上路的話最有可能是明年上半年還是下半年那個標題不是我下的我沒有這麼說不是你下的喔對我只是說看起來\n\n00:37.199 --> 00:57.384\n我是說假設立法通過以後我們在半年之內要頒布這個相關的執法所以明年上半年有機會了如果說法律通過後行政機關在半年之內要公布說的立法執法也要半年這半年之內要最後半年之內要公布半年的話如果要上半年那除非這個會期通過嘛這個會期顯然是\n\n00:58.964 --> 01:21.037\n變數重重這要看大院什麼時候通過其實我們的執法都在準備中行政院都還沒送來就不是大院的問題立法院的問題來主委最近前段時間有些案例知名的餐廳什麼香園賓士東影快車所的老闆與違法的第三方支付非能量登錄的HEROPET合作替海外博弈集團洗錢\n\n01:23.118 --> 01:50.889\n更誇張的是半年洗30億當然第三方支付書發布的事情但是這裡頭有共管的問題本席在民間還有聽過什麼麵包店按摩店水產店甚至是眼鏡行還有那種24小時的這裡頭有一個特點一個是內需市場二來呢現金流現金流為主為什麼可以做到這種階段呢\n\n01:52.335 --> 02:15.134\n那照說這些屬於內需市場的服務業它應該沒有所謂的海外除非它有海外據點那個分店或者加盟不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款所以當這些匯款的部分它會透過這個金融單位的時候難道這個銀行就讓它直接\n\n02:16.215 --> 02:35.744\n把這個高額海外的匯款匯出去嗎雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中但是現在類似這種現象在民間還普遍被討論這個主委是我想剛剛有幾個問題剛剛委員其實講的這是真的因為剛剛提到你也知道嗎沒有\n\n02:36.664 --> 02:57.700\n這些業態都不是我們現在金管住管但剛才講假設牽涉到匯款特別是匯款就是說這個匯款的部分我們有一套的規定去來做這個限制比如包括最近因為詐騙很盛行我們也針對這一塊我們也在著力但是細節我不能再公開說明我只是說這部分包括反洗錢很多東西都有一定的規範在做\n\n02:58.741 --> 03:18.669\n當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推會覺得這個是一件不可以的事這是冰山一角這不是單一案例好不好本席今天跟你講說好幾個行業我在民間在跑都聽到了委員講的是我們會從這些案例裡面再回推我們整個在防控上面有沒有漏洞\n\n03:19.389 --> 03:44.048\n這就是今天我質詢您的重點嘛就是說已經有這種現象檢方好像偵辦了至少他在透過銀行海外匯款的時候我們要如何把關嘛對沒錯就是對異常的交易的部分我們應該會來那為什麼一開始我要問說你穩定幣什麼時候上路跟這個又有關係為什麼因為穩定幣也會變成一種媒介啊對不對它也有可能會造成這樣的結果好我們再看一下\n\n03:46.039 --> 04:15.359\n穩定幣基本上它也有可能會造成洗錢的工具也就是說我上次的這個部分它不是透過這個銀行匯款而是透過穩定幣的這種部分來進行這個把款項匯出這個部分你要如何去防弊就是說銀行還有一個公司治理的KYC那個問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎\n\n04:16.299 --> 04:43.856\n我們現在的交易所的話有要加強這個監管的強度嗎你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的現在只是登記制還沒有達到我們的高度監管還沒達到那也就是說將來如果說你開放之後有可能會類似的情況多開放一個管道甚至目前搞不好就有了因為現在交易所目前UB一大堆\n\n04:45.417 --> 05:03.533\n現在我們9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的對啊已經有了嘛已經有在交易了嘛所以有時候這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看有沒有可能當我們在銀行端的時候緊縮的時候他會不會跑到這邊來對確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分我們有訂定相關的規範\n\n05:04.414 --> 05:27.122\n對所以我們現在來講比如說他們現在上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易所以我們現在全部都要透過那個法幣帳戶所以它就跟銀行之間產生了未來我們做KYC這些都比較容易做對我意思是說這個部分也應該要求將來對於交易所的部分那另外一個部分因為穩定幣接下來因為它的這個成本低\n\n05:27.722 --> 05:48.168\n然後交易又快速那這種情況底下他會不會把既有的這個海外的這個外匯的這個交易量的這個內容當中把它替代掉既有外匯替代的可能這個有很多討論就是因為它穩定幣一個人最重要的是跨境支付跨境支付一定是比如說他一定是用這個\n\n05:49.989 --> 06:16.595\n不同的幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易那我想這部分的話未來的話其實各國都很重視這是我們會跟央行來好好密切來管因為這主要是央行我就講了央行這個問題我問過那個楊總裁他說未來是不是有衝擊要看使用者的對穩定幣有無信心我不曉得你的判斷如何當然所有的貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心就像比如說我們現在那個\n\n06:17.995 --> 06:42.045\n其中的泰達幣他也沒有受到監管但大家為什麼覺得就是有人信任他但是有人相信因為DC是希望美國監管他才相信對沒有錯通常CCN有市場才有法規市場已經流通過了然後法規才跟進那同樣的方式像那個Swift有一個現實上的一個交換機制但以後的虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似的這一種\n\n06:42.985 --> 07:08.397\n監理的這個機構那當然是未來監理的重點剛剛有報告過就是我們對剛剛委員講說我們總共7個樣態的Vespa業者裡面其中最核心的大概就是交易平台商他會做了很多業態這未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的就是交易平台商對他的要求也比較多那這個再來就是對他的一些的資本的要求人員的管控這些應該都會比較高\n\n07:09.257 --> 07:34.298\n有你在相關的八大的執法當中有特別講到對於人員的部分消極跟積極資格我們對各種不同因為我們現在有七大類的幣七大類對其中有一個所謂的交易平台商就是我們講類似虛幣的交易所這個概念他會做到很多其他業務這是很重要的部分我們在內部執法裡面我們已經會做分級的管理會做一些分級的管理\n\n07:35.519 --> 07:53.546\n所以但是看起來總體而言有沒有可能那個金管會跟央行對於這流進來現在主要是這個UB維多這個部分的流進的這個部分的流量還有流出的這個部分將來有一個海外匯款的一個申報機制的可能性有沒有\n\n07:53.826 --> 08:19.037\n有我想說剛剛那個包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面這裡面他要呈報的資訊裡面我們Vespa比如說這個KYC他換了這些的量這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西應該都未來都是會滿重的就是說業者會字節然後通報給主管機關這個就是他被納管最基本的要求最基本的要求所以說都會做一個基本的一個流量管控當然好那接下來還有一個部分\n\n08:21.118 --> 08:43.921\n現階段我們的穩定幣在世界上最主流的部分泰達幣還有Circle的部分發行的UB這兩種為主一個大家占七成多一個大家占兩成多現階段的話穩定幣最關鍵的就目前官方所透露除了銀行之外還沒有可能誰可以發行\n\n08:44.361 --> 09:12.986\n其實按照國外它實際上當然最重要是所謂的就是銀行機構再來還有其他像美國的話它有經過他們聯邦同意也可以還有就是比如說像比如說以香港為例它也沒有限制說比如說很多電商也有可能來申請沒有就一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性像剛剛委員提到那個兩大USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的是這樣\n\n09:14.927 --> 09:35.163\n對剛才那兩大就是USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的對就不是嘛那我是不是說在台灣呢在台灣因為我們現在的規定你的穩定幣的話要金融機構先發行嘛對不對我們是參照MICA的我們沒有在法律上把它限縮但是我們在很多公開的場合我們說我們基於省鎮\n\n09:36.564 --> 10:01.481\n審慎的態度我們會優先的由金融機構來發行對我知道我是說衍生後面的部分有沒有可能其他的好那另外目前好像沒有國際的業者落地是不是我們監管得太嚴了沒有我想我們在這個專法裡面就有一個有針對國外VASP來申請我想這個我們都是開放的未來的話我們也會針對境外像剛剛講有穩定幣來講在境外就是專法之後會比較更開放就是了對它會有明確的遊戲規則好那最後一個問題\n\n10:05.484 --> 10:21.119\n那有關於這些交易所的部分有沒有可能開放一些隱身性的商品就如同去年本席在擔任這個招委的時候有去海外參訪我們去看了日本的穩定幣然後日本的部分基本上的虛擬貨幣的這個監管非常的嚴格\n\n10:23.741 --> 10:39.656\n即便這麼嚴格的情況底下它還是有開放開放一些衍生性的商品類似像期貨的概念的商品但是需要一些特定的概感比的一個演算法的公司這個有沒有可能是台灣未來走的方向類似於日本\n\n10:40.997 --> 11:04.623\n衍生性業務的話我剛才在報告裡面也說了就是說我們在那個虛擬資產業務裡面我們留了一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務我們剛才說我們會根據我們現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力以及國際的趨勢我們再看需求隨時可以來做調整看市場發展逐步放寬應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事越漸淺就越多元當然\n\n11:06.025 --> 11:07.289\n謝謝主委的回覆謝謝國務委員接下來我們請賴會員委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.021,"end":20.091,"text":"很好那個彭主委是那個這個報紙的標題做了很大這個穩定幣發行納管拼明年上路看到沒有這麼大還看不到是不是我待會請人送過去那個明年上路明明現在要進入第四階段現在目前還躺在行政院裡頭"},{"start":20.851,"end":36.719,"text":"要法律通過才會第四階段對 我知道然後如果你這麼有信心常常談到行政院立法院現在變化多數那我請問一下如果明年可以上路的話最有可能是明年上半年還是下半年那個標題不是我下的我沒有這麼說不是你下的喔對 我只是說看起來"},{"start":37.199,"end":57.384,"text":"我是說假設立法通過以後我們在半年之內要頒布這個相關的執法所以明年上半年有機會了如果說法律通過後行政機關在半年之內要公布說的立法執法也要半年這半年之內要最後半年之內要公布半年的話如果要上半年那除非這個會期通過嘛這個會期顯然是"},{"start":58.964,"end":81.037,"text":"變數重重這要看大院什麼時候通過其實我們的執法都在準備中行政院都還沒送來就不是大院的問題立法院的問題來 主委最近前段時間有些案例知名的餐廳什麼香園賓士東影快車所的老闆與違法的第三方支付非能量登錄的HERO PET合作替海外博弈集團洗錢"},{"start":83.118,"end":110.889,"text":"更誇張的是半年洗30億當然第三方支付書發布的事情但是這裡頭有共管的問題本席在民間還有聽過什麼麵包店 按摩店 水產店甚至是眼鏡行還有那種24小時的這裡頭有一個特點一個是內需市場二來呢 現金流現金流為主為什麼可以做到這種階段呢"},{"start":112.335,"end":135.134,"text":"那照說這些屬於內需市場的服務業它應該沒有所謂的海外除非它有海外據點那個分店或者加盟不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款所以當這些匯款的部分它會透過這個金融單位的時候難道這個銀行就讓它直接"},{"start":136.215,"end":155.744,"text":"把這個高額海外的匯款匯出去嗎雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中但是現在類似這種現象在民間還普遍被討論這個主委是我想剛剛有幾個問題剛剛委員其實講的這是真的因為剛剛提到你也知道嗎沒有"},{"start":156.664,"end":177.7,"text":"這些業態都不是我們現在金管住管但剛才講假設牽涉到匯款特別是匯款就是說這個匯款的部分我們有一套的規定去來做這個限制比如包括最近因為詐騙很盛行我們也針對這一塊我們也在著力但是細節我不能再公開說明我只是說這部分包括反洗錢很多東西都有一定的規範在做"},{"start":178.741,"end":198.669,"text":"當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推會覺得這個是一件不可以的事這是冰山一角這不是單一案例好不好本席今天跟你講說好幾個行業我在民間在跑都聽到了委員講的是我們會從這些案例裡面再回推我們整個在防控上面有沒有漏洞"},{"start":199.389,"end":224.048,"text":"這就是今天我質詢您的重點嘛就是說已經有這種現象檢方好像偵辦了至少他在透過銀行海外匯款的時候我們要如何把關嘛對沒錯就是對異常的交易的部分我們應該會來那為什麼一開始我要問說你穩定幣什麼時候上路跟這個又有關係為什麼因為穩定幣也會變成一種媒介啊對不對它也有可能會造成這樣的結果好我們再看一下"},{"start":226.039,"end":255.359,"text":"穩定幣基本上它也有可能會造成洗錢的工具也就是說我上次的這個部分它不是透過這個銀行匯款而是透過穩定幣的這種部分來進行這個把款項匯出這個部分你要如何去防弊就是說銀行還有一個公司治理的KYC那個問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎"},{"start":256.299,"end":283.856,"text":"我們現在的交易所的話有要加強這個監管的強度嗎你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的現在只是登記制還沒有達到我們的高度監管還沒達到那也就是說將來如果說你開放之後有可能會類似的情況多開放一個管道甚至目前搞不好就有了因為現在交易所目前UB一大堆"},{"start":285.417,"end":303.533,"text":"現在我們9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的對啊 已經有了嘛已經有在交易了嘛所以有時候這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看有沒有可能當我們在銀行端的時候緊縮的時候他會不會跑到這邊來對 確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分我們有訂定相關的規範"},{"start":304.414,"end":327.122,"text":"對 所以我們現在來講比如說他們現在上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易所以我們現在全部都要透過那個法幣帳戶所以它就跟銀行之間產生了未來我們做KYC這些都比較容易做對 我意思是說這個部分也應該要求將來對於交易所的部分那另外一個部分因為穩定幣接下來因為它的這個成本低"},{"start":327.722,"end":348.168,"text":"然後交易又快速那這種情況底下他會不會把既有的這個海外的這個外匯的這個交易量的這個內容當中把它替代掉既有外匯替代的可能這個有很多討論就是因為它穩定幣一個人最重要的是跨境支付跨境支付一定是比如說他一定是用這個"},{"start":349.989,"end":376.595,"text":"不同的幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易那我想這部分的話未來的話其實各國都很重視這是我們會跟央行來好好密切來管因為這主要是央行我就講了央行這個問題我問過那個楊總裁他說未來是不是有衝擊要看使用者的對穩定幣有無信心我不曉得你的判斷如何當然所有的貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心就像比如說我們現在那個"},{"start":377.995,"end":402.045,"text":"其中的泰達幣他也沒有受到監管但大家為什麼覺得就是有人信任他但是有人相信因為DC是希望美國監管他才相信對 沒有錯通常CCN有市場才有法規市場已經流通過了然後法規才跟進那同樣的方式像那個Swift有一個現實上的一個交換機制但以後的虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似的這一種"},{"start":402.985,"end":428.397,"text":"監理的這個機構那當然是未來監理的重點剛剛有報告過就是我們對剛剛委員講說我們總共7個樣態的Vespa業者裡面其中最核心的大概就是交易平台商他會做了很多業態這未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的就是交易平台商對他的要求也比較多那這個再來就是對他的一些的資本的要求人員的管控這些應該都會比較高"},{"start":429.257,"end":454.298,"text":"有 你在相關的八大的執法當中有特別講到對於人員的部分消極跟積極資格我們對各種不同因為我們現在有七大類的幣七大類對 其中有一個所謂的交易平台商就是我們講類似虛幣的交易所這個概念他會做到很多其他業務這是很重要的部分我們在內部執法裡面我們已經會做分級的管理會做一些分級的管理"},{"start":455.519,"end":473.546,"text":"所以但是看起來總體而言有沒有可能那個金管會跟央行對於這流進來現在主要是這個UB維多這個部分的流進的這個部分的流量還有流出的這個部分將來有一個海外匯款的一個申報機制的可能性 有沒有"},{"start":473.826,"end":499.037,"text":"有 我想說剛剛那個包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面這裡面他要呈報的資訊裡面我們Vespa比如說這個KYC他換了這些的量這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西應該都未來都是會滿重的就是說業者會字節然後通報給主管機關這個就是他被納管最基本的要求最基本的要求所以說都會做一個基本的一個流量管控當然好 那接下來還有一個部分"},{"start":501.118,"end":523.921,"text":"現階段我們的穩定幣在世界上最主流的部分泰達幣還有Circle的部分發行的UB這兩種為主一個大家占七成多一個大家占兩成多現階段的話穩定幣最關鍵的就目前官方所透露除了銀行之外還沒有可能誰可以發行"},{"start":524.361,"end":552.986,"text":"其實按照國外它實際上當然最重要是所謂的就是銀行機構再來還有其他像美國的話它有經過他們聯邦同意也可以還有就是比如說像比如說以香港為例它也沒有限制說比如說很多電商也有可能來申請沒有 就一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性像剛剛委員提到那個兩大USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的是這樣"},{"start":554.927,"end":575.163,"text":"對 剛才那兩大就是USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的對 就不是嘛那我是不是說在台灣呢在台灣因為我們現在的規定你的穩定幣的話要金融機構先發行嘛 對不對我們是參照MICA的我們沒有在法律上把它限縮但是我們在很多公開的場合我們說我們基於省鎮"},{"start":576.564,"end":601.481,"text":"審慎的態度我們會優先的由金融機構來發行對 我知道我是說衍生後面的部分有沒有可能其他的好 那另外目前好像沒有國際的業者落地是不是我們監管得太嚴了沒有 我想我們在這個專法裡面就有一個有針對國外VASP來申請我想這個我們都是開放的未來的話我們也會針對境外像剛剛講有穩定幣來講在境外就是專法之後會比較更開放就是了對 它會有明確的遊戲規則好 那最後一個問題"},{"start":605.484,"end":621.119,"text":"那有關於這些交易所的部分有沒有可能開放一些隱身性的商品就如同去年本席在擔任這個招委的時候有去海外參訪我們去看了日本的穩定幣然後日本的部分基本上的虛擬貨幣的這個監管非常的嚴格"},{"start":623.741,"end":639.656,"text":"即便這麼嚴格的情況底下它還是有開放開放一些衍生性的商品類似像期貨的概念的商品但是需要一些特定的概感比的一個演算法的公司這個有沒有可能是台灣未來走的方向類似於日本"},{"start":640.997,"end":664.623,"text":"衍生性業務的話我剛才在報告裡面也說了就是說我們在那個虛擬資產業務裡面我們留了一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務我們剛才說我們會根據我們現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力以及國際的趨勢我們再看需求隨時可以來做調整看市場發展逐步放寬應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事越漸淺就越多元當然"},{"start":666.025,"end":667.289,"text":"謝謝主委的回覆謝謝國務委員接下來我們請賴會員委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":232,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時45分）主席，有請彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：彭主委，報紙的這個標題做得很大！穩定幣發行納管拚明年上路。看到沒有？這麼大！還看不到，是不是？我待會請人送過去。明明現在要進入第四階段，目前還躺在行政院裡頭……"],["彭主任委員金隆：要法律通過才會進入第四階段。"],["郭委員國文：對，我知道。如果你這麼有信心，目前還躺在行政院，立法院現在又變化多端，我請問一下，如果明年可以上路的話，最有可能是明年上半年，還是下半年？"],["彭主任委員金隆：那個標題不是我下的，我沒有這麼說。"],["郭委員國文：不是你下的？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我只是說……"],["郭委員國文：看起來，是……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我只是說，假設立法通過以後，我們在半年之內要頒布相關的子法。"],["郭委員國文：所以明年上半年有機會？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果法律通過以後，行政機關在半年之內要公布所有的子法……"],["郭委員國文：子法也要半年啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是半年之內，最晚半年之內要公布。"],["郭委員國文：如果要半年的話，要在上半年，除非這個會期通過，但這個會期顯然是變數重重，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這要看大院什麼時候通過，其實我們的子法都在準備中了。"],["郭委員國文：行政院都還沒送來，就不是立法院的問題。","主委，前一段時間有些案例，知名餐廳「茗香園冰室」老闆及「東引快刀手」老闆與違法、未依洗防法向數發部申請能量登錄審核的第三方支付Hero Pay合作，替海外博弈集團洗錢，更誇張的是半年洗30億！當然第三方支付是數發部的事情，但是這裡頭有共管的問題。本席在民間還有聽過麵包店、按摩店、水產店，甚至眼鏡行，還有24小時的店，都在協助洗錢。這裡頭有二個特點：一個是內需市場，二來是現金流為主。為什麼可以做到這種階段呢？照理說，這些屬於內需市場的服務業除非有海外據點、分店，或者是加盟，不然，不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款，所以當這些匯款透過金融單位的時候，難道銀行就讓他直接把這個高額的海外匯款匯出去嗎？雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中，但是現在類似這種現象在民間普遍被討論。主委，你的看法？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛有幾個問題，委員講的其實是真的，因為剛剛提到……"],["郭委員國文：你也知道這些現象嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：這些業態現在都不是金管會主管，剛剛講的，假設牽涉到匯款，特別是……"],["郭委員國文：匯款就是啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個匯款的部分，我們有一套規定來做限制，比如最近因為詐騙很盛行，我們針對這一塊也在著力，但是細節我不能公開說明，我只能說這個部分，包括反洗錢，都有一定的規範在做，當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推，會覺得這些不可以，但是我們會……"],["郭委員國文：這是冰山一角……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對、對，我們就是因為有……"],["郭委員國文：這不是單一案例，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，單一案例的價值就在於……"],["郭委員國文：本席已經跟你講好幾個行業，我在民間跑都有聽到了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是、是、是，沒錯，委員講的是，我們會從這些案例裡面再回推看我們整個防控上面有沒有什麼漏洞。"],["郭委員國文：是，沒有錯，這就是今天我質詢您的重點，就是已經有這種現象，檢方已經在偵辦了，至少他在透過銀行海外匯款的時候，我們要如何把關……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對、對、對，沒錯，就是異常交易的部分，我們應該會來……"],["郭委員國文：這個很關鍵。為什麼一開始我要問你，穩定幣什麼時候上路？跟這個又有關係，為什麼？因為穩定幣也會變成一種媒介，對不對？它也有可能會造成這樣的結果。","我們再看一下。基本上，穩定幣也有可能會成為洗錢的工具，也就是我上次質詢的這個部分，他不是透過銀行匯款，而是透過穩定幣把款項匯出，這個部分你要如何去防弊？銀行還有公司治理的KYC，問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在我們的交易所應該要……"],["郭委員國文：有要加強這個監管的強度嗎？你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的，會比照這種方式處理嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在只是登記制，還沒有達到我們的高度監管……"],["郭委員國文：還沒到嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["郭委員國文：將來如果你開放之後，有可能會有類似的情況，多開放一個管道……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["郭委員國文：甚至目前搞不好就有了，因為現在交易所U幣一大堆啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的。"],["郭委員國文：對啊！已經有了嘛！已經有在交易了嘛！所以這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看，當我們在銀行端緊縮的時候，他有沒有可能會跑到這邊來？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分有訂定相關的規範。"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：所以現在來講，比如說上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易，現在全部都要透過法幣帳戶，所以他就跟銀行之間產生了連結，未來我們做KYC等等，這些都比較容易做。"],["郭委員國文：對，我的意思是說將來對交易所的部分也應該要求啦！另外，因為穩定幣的成本低，交易又快速，在這種情況底下，它會不會有把既有的海外外匯交易替代掉的可能？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個有很多的討論，因為穩定幣最重要的功能之一是跨境支付，跨境支付一定是用不同幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易，我想這部分其實各國都很重視，未來我們會跟央行好好密切來管理，因為這主要是……"],["郭委員國文：講到央行，這個問題我問過楊總裁，他說，未來是不是有衝擊，要看使用者對穩定幣有無信心。我不曉得你的判斷如何？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，所有貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心有關，就像現在的泰達幣也沒有受到監管，但為什麼就是有人信任它？"],["郭委員國文：就是有信心嘛！如果沒有信心，就不會流通這麼多嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：但有人相信USDC是因為美國監管，他才相信。"],["郭委員國文：對啊！沒有錯啊！通常是先有市場，才有法規嘛！在市場已經流通了，然後法規再跟進嘛！同樣的方式，像SWIFT有一個現實上的交換機制，以後虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似這一種監理的機構？"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然是未來監理的重點，剛才有報告過，在我們總共7個樣態的VASP業者裡面，其中最核心的大概就是交易平臺商，它會做很多業態，所以未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的，對它的要求也比較多，再來就是對它一些資本的要求、人員的管控，這些應該都會比較高……"],["郭委員國文：在相關的八大子法當中有特別講到，對於人員的消極跟積極資格都會處理……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，我們對各種不同的類別，因為我們現在有7大類的虛擬幣，其中有一個是所謂的交易平臺商，就是我們講類似虛幣交易所的這個概念，它會做到很多業務，這是很重要的部分，我們在內部子法裡面會做分級的管理。"],["郭委員國文：會做一些分級的管理。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["郭委員國文：但是總體而言，現在流進來的主要是U幣為多，這個部分流進及流出的部分，金管會和央行將來有沒有建立一個海外匯款申報機制的可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有，剛才包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面都有提到它要陳報的資訊，對於VASP業者來說，比如說KYC，它換了這些的量、這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西，應該未來都會規範重點。"],["郭委員國文：就是業者會自結，然後通報給主管機關。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然，這個就是它被納管最基本的要求。"],["郭委員國文：最基本的要求，所以都會做一個基本的流量管控啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["郭委員國文：好，接下來還有一個部分，現階段在世界上最主流的穩定幣大概是泰達幣和Circle發行的U幣，以這兩種為主，市占率一個大概占七成多，一個大概占兩成多，現階段穩定幣最關鍵的，就目前官方所透露的，除了銀行之外，還有沒有誰可能可以發行？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實按照國外的發行單位，最重要的是所謂的銀行機構，再來像美國的話，有經過他們聯邦同意也可以，還有以香港為例，他也沒有限制，比如說很多電商也有可能來申請。"],["郭委員國文：沒有，一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管嘛！但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：像剛剛委員提到兩大的USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的。"],["郭委員國文：就不是嘛！那在臺灣呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為我們現在的規定是穩定幣……"],["郭委員國文：要金融機構先發行嘛！對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們是參照MiCA的規定，沒有在法律上把它限縮，但是我們在很多公開的場合說，基於審慎的態度，我們會優先由金融機構來發行。"],["郭委員國文：對，我知道，我是說衍生到後面的部分有沒有可能有其他的。另外，目前好像沒有國際的業者落地，是不是我們監管得太嚴了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我們在專法裡面就有一個針對國外VASP來申請的規定，這個我們都是開放的，未來我們也會針對境外……像剛才講的，以穩定幣來講，在境外……"],["郭委員國文：專法上路之後會更開放就是了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，它會有明確的遊戲規則。"],["郭委員國文：好，最後一個問題，這些交易所有沒有可能開放一些衍生性商品？就如同去年本席在擔任召委的時候有去海外參訪，我們去看了日本的穩定幣，基本上日本對虛擬貨幣的監管非常的嚴格，即便在這麼嚴格的情況底下，他還是有開放一些衍生性的商品，類似像期貨概念的商品，但是需要有一些特定的槓桿比的演算法公司，這個類似於日本的方式有沒有可能是臺灣未來走的方向？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有關虛擬的衍生性業務我剛才在報告裡面也說了，我們在虛擬資產業務裡面留了一個「其他經主管機關同意的虛擬資產業務」，我們剛才說，我們會根據現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力，以及國際的趨勢，我們來看需求，隨時可以調整。"],["郭委員國文：看市場發展，逐步放寬。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的，應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事。"],["郭委員國文：越健全就越多元。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝主委的回復，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員。接下來請賴惠員委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-5","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","吳秉叡","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","王世堅","葛如鈞","吳宗憲","羅明才","王鴻薇","林思銘","李彥秀","林楚茵"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、中央銀行、法務部、內政部警政署就「虛擬資產服務\n法草案及其相關子法修訂暨建立完善監理架構之進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00011"}}}