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\"end\": 724.124, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"女\", \"start\": 724.124, \"end\": 724.184, \"score\": 0.6}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 724.184, \"end\": 724.204, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 724.204, \"end\": 724.224, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,292 --> 00:00:10,612\n謝謝主席有請林部長來部長請委員好\n\n2\n00:00:11,810 --> 00:00:37,339\n部長好部長今天我們要對中共對台灣進行這個常備管轄然後跨境鎮壓這個部分我們要表達嚴正的這個抗議那台灣的言論自由是不容這個跨境來做侵犯那剛剛陸委會有提到就是說像這個中共對於這個懲毒的這個對象的範圍是擴大然後制裁的力道也比以前強大我們也很清楚像過去的話確實都是由中共的國台辦國安\n\n3\n00:00:38,779 --> 00:00:51,623\n國安部等中央部門來做宣布相關的規範跟這個措施可是現在我們發現的是由地方的公安局加入了來做這個具體的這個操作像這個沈博洋委員他就是在這個10月28號的時候是重慶市的公安局來發布這個公告表示對沈博洋委員涉嫌分裂國家犯罪立案來做這個\n\n4\n00:01:03,207 --> 00:01:07,191\n偵查那國台辦甚至表示說這是落實成都22條的具體行動必要之之舉那當然他這個就是殺雞儆猴然後呢來製造恐慌跟這個這個對立其實在去年沈博洋委員10月我記得是10月14號的時候被列入這個台獨頑固頑固分子的清單\n\n5\n00:01:23,624 --> 00:01:30,849\n而且他那時候本席也曾經針對沈博洋委員出國可能會有一些安全上的疑慮也跟國安單位來做了一個質詢我們台上的王定宇召委其實也是被列入台獨幫顧分子的親戚之一你還是學長對不對你還是沈博洋委員的學長\n\n6\n00:01:50,143 --> 00:02:07,814\n所以我們省委員員好或是說王定宇召委往後大家都很擔心在討論說以後他們出國的時候會不會因為中國他會就是說會利用跟他們交好的一些國家那是因為我們剛有提到這個\n\n7\n00:02:10,376 --> 00:02:27,576\n我記得剛剛事業外交部有提到就是說中國他有跟這個俄羅斯等60多個國家簽訂了刑事司法互助的條約也跟60個國家簽訂這個引渡條約所以我們都很擔心列入這個名單的我們的這些委員們或者是說\n\n8\n00:02:28,217 --> 00:02:29,999\n他們所謂的這個台獨份子以後到這些國家去的時候我們會很擔心他們會被這些國家引渡到中國去受審其實除了這個之外其實中國在這個境外有設置這個井橋事務海外服務站\n\n9\n00:02:44,838 --> 00:02:59,018\n那這些他們都是以這個服務戰作為這個幌子實施這個監控那甚至像非洲中南美洲有些國家他們甚至呢跟這些國家就是說我幫你來訓練當地的這個執法人員甚至就是利用這個方式來拓展他們國際執法的這個合作所以像這類的話\n\n10\n00:03:02,222 --> 00:03:18,576\n那是不是會提高這個我們國人到海外呢甚至會被送中的這個風險所以我想了解一下說萬一發生這種事情的話我們有沒有什麼其他的制衡的方式因為像之前的話像中國中國曾經就跟摩洛哥政府配合將這個維吾爾族的異分子愛上\n\n11\n00:03:21,198 --> 00:03:26,080\n於這個摩洛哥要轉機的時候呢就將他逮捕說要求送回中國送聖當然後來這個愛上並沒有成功送回中國是因為聯合國的這一個人權專家的介入所以後來他後來是被釋放了可是如果類似像沈博洋委員也好王廷宇專委也好如果他們到國外遇到這種狀況的話我們有哪一些具體可以抗衡的一些手段呢\n\n12\n00:03:46,751 --> 00:04:15,731\n報告委員中共是靠鬥爭起家它是無所不用其極所以我們當然在面對這個中共的長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓我們當然全力的來做好比如說宣導然後去讓我們的外管能夠協助國人如果發生一些緊急的情況另外跟友好國家之間也能夠一起來分享情誌以外做好因應\n\n13\n00:04:16,651 --> 00:04:30,014\n那麼其實他們針對個人在進行所謂的這個對台灣啦當然在國外其實這些長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓都有作用力跟反作用力\n\n14\n00:04:31,241 --> 00:04:56,749\n這個也證實了中共就是它的本質所以我想全世界包括美國啦甚至像法國都曾經發生過這些情形之後他們也有一些因應但是我們國人因為有些是出入在兩岸之間或者說到了中共比較能夠掌控的像港澳或他所謂的他的這個協力的這些國家那我們就是做好事前事終跟事後\n\n15\n00:04:57,949 --> 00:05:12,436\n各種的這個因應那我也要特別利用這個機會指出其實中共是從20年前在通過反分裂法的時候就啟動了三戰這三戰是所謂的混合戰是交互在運用就法律戰\n\n16\n00:05:14,057 --> 00:05:26,466\n輿論戰跟心理戰而這個最後的這個心理戰其實他就是想不戰而屈人之兵他企圖造成了一種紅色的恐怖那讓你人人自危你就會有一個自我檢查而且把這個戰場\n\n17\n00:05:29,588 --> 00:05:41,836\n打到對方的比如說台灣的內部所以我們在因應上是必須要全面性的除了是法律戰涉及到的這些之外其實它有背後更深層的一種混合戰在支撐它對台的鬥爭\n\n18\n00:05:46,283 --> 00:06:08,186\n市部長剛有提到就是說我們請友好國家要特別就是留意我們會跟他們有很多的互動換言之就是說像王委員或是說沈博洋委員是他們也只能到友好國家去因為像現在的話我們知道說像他的這個審讀22條裡面他是可以用缺席審查\n\n19\n00:06:09,006 --> 00:06:12,068\n就是說他們會經過缺席審查然後再來的話就是可能就會通報這個國際刑警組織發布紅色通緝令他們大概的這個方向是這麼走嘛對不對以後沈博耀委會面對這一些這一連串的這個局面嗎\n\n20\n00:06:27,976 --> 00:06:39,501\n先審查那再來呢因為他現在已經立案偵查了嘛偵查當然就是開始要做審查審查之後呢罪名確立之後就是要通報國際刑警組織嘛再來就是通報這個紅色通緝令嘛是會來會是這樣子的走向嗎\n\n21\n00:06:43,743 --> 00:07:04,622\n因為中共對於所謂的長臂管轄跨境世界包括自己的中國人包括台灣人也包括其他國家的人所以這種威脅是引起全世界大家都是認為是一個威權擴張那當然我們自己要做好防範萬一發生的時候也要營救\n\n22\n00:07:05,883 --> 00:07:23,404\n可是我們怎麼樣去避免以及發生的時候去應處那我要特別提到的說它不是單純的法律戰它是一個所謂的三戰合一的混合戰那我們在因應的時候也必須全面性來看待它因為它這個東西想不戰而屈人執兵想要從內部瓦解我們\n\n23\n00:07:24,165 --> 00:07:36,914\n那造成人人自危那至於說所謂缺席審判啦然後所謂的這個不受時效追溯時效的限制啦其實這個是20年來他們逐步在鋪陳那只是他現在國力比較強聲量比較大那我們自己當然政府該做的人民該做的以及跟國際之間的合作還有我們之間跨部會單位之間的協調包括資訊的分享預警\n\n24\n00:07:51,443 --> 00:07:58,087\n以及發生之後的一些包括這些旅遊警戒這個都是做到我們可以說可是因為它有涉及到它的引渡條約或者司法互助條約那是不是因為這樣子送到這個所謂的這個國際的這個所謂的這些包括這些刑事這個組織\n\n25\n00:08:11,734 --> 00:08:19,621\n這個當然我們會去因應那也不會讓他要如何因應我們不斷地在宣導然後也跟友好國家其實在不斷地針對這個東西交流甚至我們包括透過很多的機制在進行所以台灣不會孤單的這個因應不是只針對台灣針對台灣人中國人跟各國的人他都可能選擇性的適用\n\n26\n00:08:35,473 --> 00:08:56,298\n只是說因為我們在國際上跟中國因為有這些涉及到的他對我們的這種直接的鎖定特定的人那這個我們也不能夠當作只是一個點名但是我一說怎麼去做好防範如果發生的時候是妥善因應但是這個事件我剛剛講有作用力就有反作力\n\n27\n00:08:57,677 --> 00:09:11,136\n所以這個對中共也沒有好處啦我是說純粹在國際上來講大家這個就是一個迫害這個既有以規則為基礎的國際秩序的一個麻煩製造者那我們在這方面我們也必須要宣傳讓國際共同來因應\n\n28\n00:09:14,068 --> 00:09:42,348\n是看起來現在我們沈博洋委員是一個很大的這個目標那部長你會不會就是說請跟沈博洋委員就是建議就是說有哪些國家不建議他去哪些國家是OK會嗎因為我現在想像中國的話他在非洲也好中南美洲甚至東南亞他們其實都很多這方面的這些互動就是說像建設立這個海外警察警察站服務站等等或是有司法互助這些國家我們會建議列入這些列入這個\n\n29\n00:09:43,809 --> 00:09:53,259\n清單的這些我們說受清算者好了會不會給予他們一份名單就是說哪些國家最好是不要去哪些國家建議其實是說那個是安全的我們會有這種動作嗎有我剛剛講不同層次啦就個人的層次當然因為我們是\n\n30\n00:10:00,387 --> 00:10:20,402\n一個民主自由人權的國家個人的旅行我們沒有辦法完全限制可是被點名或是有可能會被這個所謂長臂管轄跨境鎮壓的對象那我們怎麼樣做好宣導跟因應的這個準備這一個政治人物他有他的判斷\n\n31\n00:10:21,624 --> 00:10:28,940\n跟智慧這個我們也必須要跟他做好這個之間怎麼樣去保護他之外其實他本身的判斷跟應處是非常重要的\n\n32\n00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:59,211\nOK好那時間的關係因為我們也看到就是說中國對於台灣的這個壓力是給予的壓力是越來越大那當然我剛剛有看到很多單位相關的國安單位都有提到說其實我們有很多國安法還需要更加完善的這個地方我想這個行政單位跟立法單位其實應該要共同來做努力以維護台灣的這個尊嚴也好或者是說我們這些台灣人的這個在海外跟國內的這個安全\n\n33\n00:10:59,671 --> 00:11:24,612\nOK好以上謝謝我跟委員補充一下我們有通電或訓練外館有跟各種的發生的情境或樣貌做好我們的標準作業程序所以這個範本都有發到各個外館我們111個外館這個是屬於在國外那當然兩岸之間有陸委會或其他的單位另外一個我想國連也都知道我們自己最清楚可能面對的情形的時候\n\n34\n00:11:25,253 --> 00:11:39,206\n我想這個對兩岸交流是很大的一個破壞某種程度違邦不居亂邦不入中國讓他自決於世界因為到了中國受中國統治以外在中國以外中國也想統治\n\n35\n00:11:40,403 --> 00:12:04,224\n這一種想要破壞國際的這個秩序啊其實已經引起全世界的一個共同要去面對跟因應那我也相信啊這個民主的開放社會最後還是會戰勝這種想要透過極權手段到海外去控制甚至去所謂的施以法律上的這種制裁的這種邪惡政權謝謝OK好依山謝謝謝謝羅美女委員部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1292\t10612\t謝謝主席 有請林部長來 部長請委員好\n11810\t37339\t部長好 部長今天我們要對中共對台灣進行這個常備管轄然後跨境鎮壓這個部分我們要表達嚴正的這個抗議那台灣的言論自由是不容這個跨境來做侵犯那剛剛陸委會有提到就是說像這個中共對於這個懲毒的這個對象的範圍是擴大然後制裁的力道也比以前強大我們也很清楚像過去的話確實都是由中共的國台辦國安\n38779\t51623\t國安部等中央部門來做宣布相關的規範跟這個措施可是現在我們發現的是由地方的公安局加入了來做這個具體的這個操作像這個沈博洋委員他就是在這個10月28號的時候是重慶市的公安局來發布這個公告表示對沈博洋委員涉嫌分裂國家犯罪立案來做這個\n63207\t67191\t偵查那國台辦甚至表示說這是落實成都22條的具體行動必要之之舉那當然他這個就是殺雞儆猴然後呢來製造恐慌跟這個這個對立其實在去年沈博洋委員10月我記得是10月14號的時候被列入這個台獨頑固頑固分子的清單\n83624\t90849\t而且他那時候本席也曾經針對沈博洋委員出國可能會有一些安全上的疑慮也跟國安單位來做了一個質詢我們台上的王定宇召委其實也是被列入台獨幫顧分子的親戚之一你還是學長對不對 你還是沈博洋委員的學長\n110143\t127814\t所以我們省委員員好或是說王定宇召委往後大家都很擔心在討論說以後他們出國的時候會不會因為中國他會就是說會利用跟他們交好的一些國家那是因為我們剛有提到這個\n130376\t147576\t我記得剛剛事業外交部有提到就是說中國他有跟這個俄羅斯等60多個國家簽訂了刑事司法互助的條約也跟60個國家簽訂這個引渡條約所以我們都很擔心列入這個名單的我們的這些委員們或者是說\n148217\t149999\t他們所謂的這個台獨份子以後到這些國家去的時候我們會很擔心他們會被這些國家引渡到中國去受審其實除了這個之外其實中國在這個境外有設置這個井橋事務海外服務站\n164838\t179018\t那這些他們都是以這個服務戰作為這個幌子實施這個監控那甚至像非洲中南美洲有些國家他們甚至呢跟這些國家就是說我幫你來訓練當地的這個執法人員甚至就是利用這個方式來拓展他們國際執法的這個合作所以像這類的話\n182222\t198576\t那是不是會提高這個我們國人到海外呢甚至會被送中的這個風險所以我想了解一下說萬一發生這種事情的話我們有沒有什麼其他的制衡的方式因為像之前的話像中國中國曾經就跟摩洛哥政府配合將這個維吾爾族的異分子愛上\n201198\t206080\t於這個摩洛哥要轉機的時候呢就將他逮捕說要求送回中國送聖當然後來這個愛上並沒有成功送回中國是因為聯合國的這一個人權專家的介入所以後來他後來是被釋放了可是如果類似像沈博洋委員也好王廷宇專委也好如果他們到國外遇到這種狀況的話我們有哪一些具體可以抗衡的一些手段呢\n226751\t255731\t報告委員 中共是靠鬥爭起家它是無所不用其極所以我們當然在面對這個中共的長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓我們當然全力的來做好 比如說宣導然後去讓我們的外管能夠協助國人如果發生一些緊急的情況另外跟友好國家之間也能夠一起來分享情誌以外做好因應\n256651\t270014\t那麼其實他們針對個人在進行所謂的這個對台灣啦 當然在國外其實這些長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓都有作用力跟反作用力\n271241\t296749\t這個也證實了中共就是它的本質所以我想全世界包括美國啦甚至像法國都曾經發生過這些情形之後他們也有一些因應但是我們國人因為有些是出入在兩岸之間或者說到了中共比較能夠掌控的像港澳或他所謂的他的這個協力的這些國家那我們就是做好事前事終跟事後\n297949\t312436\t各種的這個因應那我也要特別利用這個機會指出其實中共是從20年前在通過反分裂法的時候就啟動了三戰這三戰是所謂的混合戰是交互在運用就法律戰\n314057\t326466\t輿論戰跟心理戰而這個最後的這個心理戰其實他就是想不戰而屈人之兵他企圖造成了一種紅色的恐怖那讓你人人自危你就會有一個自我檢查而且把這個戰場\n329588\t341836\t打到對方的 比如說台灣的內部所以我們在因應上是必須要全面性的除了是法律戰涉及到的這些之外其實它有背後更深層的一種混合戰在支撐它對台的鬥爭\n346283\t368186\t市部長剛有提到就是說我們請友好國家要特別就是留意我們會跟他們有很多的互動換言之就是說像王委員或是說沈博洋委員是他們也只能到友好國家去因為像現在的話我們知道說像他的這個審讀22條裡面他是可以用缺席審查\n369006\t372068\t就是說他們會經過缺席審查然後再來的話就是可能就會通報這個國際刑警組織發布紅色通緝令他們大概的這個方向是這麼走嘛對不對以後沈博耀委會面對這一些這一連串的這個局面嗎\n387976\t399501\t先審查那再來呢因為他現在已經立案偵查了嘛偵查當然就是開始要做審查審查之後呢罪名確立之後就是要通報國際刑警組織嘛再來就是通報這個紅色通緝令嘛是會來會是這樣子的走向嗎\n403743\t424622\t因為中共對於所謂的長臂管轄跨境世界包括自己的中國人包括台灣人也包括其他國家的人所以這種威脅是引起全世界大家都是認為是一個威權擴張那當然我們自己要做好防範萬一發生的時候也要營救\n425883\t443404\t可是我們怎麼樣去避免以及發生的時候去應處那我要特別提到的說它不是單純的法律戰它是一個所謂的三戰合一的混合戰那我們在因應的時候也必須全面性來看待它因為它這個東西想不戰而屈人執兵想要從內部瓦解我們\n444165\t456914\t那造成人人自危那至於說所謂缺席審判啦然後所謂的這個不受時效追溯時效的限制啦其實這個是20年來他們逐步在鋪陳那只是他現在國力比較強聲量比較大那我們自己當然政府該做的 人民該做的以及跟國際之間的合作還有我們之間跨部會單位之間的協調包括資訊的分享 預警\n471443\t478087\t以及發生之後的一些包括這些旅遊警戒這個都是做到我們可以說可是因為它有涉及到它的引渡條約或者司法互助條約那是不是因為這樣子送到這個所謂的這個國際的這個所謂的這些包括這些刑事這個組織\n491734\t499621\t這個當然我們會去因應那也不會讓他要如何因應我們不斷地在宣導然後也跟友好國家其實在不斷地針對這個東西交流甚至我們包括透過很多的機制在進行所以台灣不會孤單的這個因應不是只針對台灣針對台灣人中國人跟各國的人他都可能選擇性的適用\n515473\t536298\t只是說因為我們在國際上跟中國因為有這些涉及到的他對我們的這種直接的鎖定特定的人那這個我們也不能夠當作只是一個點名但是我一說怎麼去做好防範如果發生的時候是妥善因應但是這個事件我剛剛講有作用力就有反作力\n537677\t551136\t所以這個對中共也沒有好處啦我是說純粹在國際上來講大家這個就是一個迫害這個既有以規則為基礎的國際秩序的一個麻煩製造者那我們在這方面我們也必須要宣傳讓國際共同來因應\n554068\t582348\t是看起來現在我們沈博洋委員是一個很大的這個目標那部長你會不會就是說請跟沈博洋委員就是建議就是說有哪些國家不建議他去哪些國家是OK會嗎因為我現在想像中國的話他在非洲也好中南美洲甚至東南亞他們其實都很多這方面的這些互動就是說像建設立這個海外警察警察站服務站等等或是有司法互助這些國家我們會建議列入這些列入這個\n583809\t593259\t清單的這些 我們說受清算者好了會不會給予他們一份名單 就是說哪些國家最好是不要去哪些國家建議 其實是說 那個是安全的我們會有這種動作嗎有 我剛剛講不同層次啦就個人的層次 當然因為我們是\n600387\t620402\t一個民主自由人權的國家個人的旅行我們沒有辦法完全限制可是被點名或是有可能會被這個所謂長臂管轄跨境鎮壓的對象那我們怎麼樣做好宣導跟因應的這個準備這一個政治人物他有他的判斷\n621624\t628940\t跟智慧這個我們也必須要跟他做好這個之間怎麼樣去保護他之外其實他本身的判斷跟應處是非常重要的\n631590\t659211\tOK 好 那時間的關係因為我們也看到就是說中國對於台灣的這個壓力是給予的壓力是越來越大那當然我剛剛有看到很多單位相關的國安單位都有提到說其實我們有很多國安法還需要更加完善的這個地方我想這個行政單位跟立法單位其實應該要共同來做努力以維護台灣的這個尊嚴也好或者是說我們這些台灣人的這個在海外跟國內的這個安全\n659671\t684612\tOK 好 以上謝謝我跟委員補充一下 我們有通電或訓練外館有跟各種的發生的情境或樣貌做好我們的標準作業程序所以這個範本都有發到各個外館我們111個外館 這個是屬於在國外那當然兩岸之間有陸委會或其他的單位另外一個我想國連也都知道我們自己最清楚可能面對的情形的時候\n685253\t699206\t我想這個對兩岸交流是很大的一個破壞某種程度違邦不居亂邦不入中國讓他自決於世界因為到了中國受中國統治以外在中國以外中國也想統治\n700403\t724224\t這一種想要破壞國際的這個秩序啊其實已經引起全世界的一個共同要去面對跟因應那我也相信啊這個民主的開放社會最後還是會戰勝這種想要透過極權手段到海外去控制甚至去所謂的施以法律上的這種制裁的這種邪惡政權謝謝OK好 依山謝謝謝謝羅美女委員 部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請林部長來 部長請委員好\n部長好 部長今天我們要對中共對台灣進行這個常備管轄然後跨境鎮壓這個部分我們要表達嚴正的這個抗議那台灣的言論自由是不容這個跨境來做侵犯那剛剛陸委會有提到就是說像這個中共對於這個懲毒的這個對象的範圍是擴大然後制裁的力道也比以前強大我們也很清楚像過去的話確實都是由中共的國台辦國安\n國安部等中央部門來做宣布相關的規範跟這個措施可是現在我們發現的是由地方的公安局加入了來做這個具體的這個操作像這個沈博洋委員他就是在這個10月28號的時候是重慶市的公安局來發布這個公告表示對沈博洋委員涉嫌分裂國家犯罪立案來做這個\n偵查那國台辦甚至表示說這是落實成都22條的具體行動必要之之舉那當然他這個就是殺雞儆猴然後呢來製造恐慌跟這個這個對立其實在去年沈博洋委員10月我記得是10月14號的時候被列入這個台獨頑固頑固分子的清單\n而且他那時候本席也曾經針對沈博洋委員出國可能會有一些安全上的疑慮也跟國安單位來做了一個質詢我們台上的王定宇召委其實也是被列入台獨幫顧分子的親戚之一你還是學長對不對 你還是沈博洋委員的學長\n所以我們省委員員好或是說王定宇召委往後大家都很擔心在討論說以後他們出國的時候會不會因為中國他會就是說會利用跟他們交好的一些國家那是因為我們剛有提到這個\n我記得剛剛事業外交部有提到就是說中國他有跟這個俄羅斯等60多個國家簽訂了刑事司法互助的條約也跟60個國家簽訂這個引渡條約所以我們都很擔心列入這個名單的我們的這些委員們或者是說\n他們所謂的這個台獨份子以後到這些國家去的時候我們會很擔心他們會被這些國家引渡到中國去受審其實除了這個之外其實中國在這個境外有設置這個井橋事務海外服務站\n那這些他們都是以這個服務戰作為這個幌子實施這個監控那甚至像非洲中南美洲有些國家他們甚至呢跟這些國家就是說我幫你來訓練當地的這個執法人員甚至就是利用這個方式來拓展他們國際執法的這個合作所以像這類的話\n那是不是會提高這個我們國人到海外呢甚至會被送中的這個風險所以我想了解一下說萬一發生這種事情的話我們有沒有什麼其他的制衡的方式因為像之前的話像中國中國曾經就跟摩洛哥政府配合將這個維吾爾族的異分子愛上\n於這個摩洛哥要轉機的時候呢就將他逮捕說要求送回中國送聖當然後來這個愛上並沒有成功送回中國是因為聯合國的這一個人權專家的介入所以後來他後來是被釋放了可是如果類似像沈博洋委員也好王廷宇專委也好如果他們到國外遇到這種狀況的話我們有哪一些具體可以抗衡的一些手段呢\n報告委員 中共是靠鬥爭起家它是無所不用其極所以我們當然在面對這個中共的長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓我們當然全力的來做好 比如說宣導然後去讓我們的外管能夠協助國人如果發生一些緊急的情況另外跟友好國家之間也能夠一起來分享情誌以外做好因應\n那麼其實他們針對個人在進行所謂的這個對台灣啦 當然在國外其實這些長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓都有作用力跟反作用力\n這個也證實了中共就是它的本質所以我想全世界包括美國啦甚至像法國都曾經發生過這些情形之後他們也有一些因應但是我們國人因為有些是出入在兩岸之間或者說到了中共比較能夠掌控的像港澳或他所謂的他的這個協力的這些國家那我們就是做好事前事終跟事後\n各種的這個因應那我也要特別利用這個機會指出其實中共是從20年前在通過反分裂法的時候就啟動了三戰這三戰是所謂的混合戰是交互在運用就法律戰\n輿論戰跟心理戰而這個最後的這個心理戰其實他就是想不戰而屈人之兵他企圖造成了一種紅色的恐怖那讓你人人自危你就會有一個自我檢查而且把這個戰場\n打到對方的 比如說台灣的內部所以我們在因應上是必須要全面性的除了是法律戰涉及到的這些之外其實它有背後更深層的一種混合戰在支撐它對台的鬥爭\n市部長剛有提到就是說我們請友好國家要特別就是留意我們會跟他們有很多的互動換言之就是說像王委員或是說沈博洋委員是他們也只能到友好國家去因為像現在的話我們知道說像他的這個審讀22條裡面他是可以用缺席審查\n就是說他們會經過缺席審查然後再來的話就是可能就會通報這個國際刑警組織發布紅色通緝令他們大概的這個方向是這麼走嘛對不對以後沈博耀委會面對這一些這一連串的這個局面嗎\n先審查那再來呢因為他現在已經立案偵查了嘛偵查當然就是開始要做審查審查之後呢罪名確立之後就是要通報國際刑警組織嘛再來就是通報這個紅色通緝令嘛是會來會是這樣子的走向嗎\n因為中共對於所謂的長臂管轄跨境世界包括自己的中國人包括台灣人也包括其他國家的人所以這種威脅是引起全世界大家都是認為是一個威權擴張那當然我們自己要做好防範萬一發生的時候也要營救\n可是我們怎麼樣去避免以及發生的時候去應處那我要特別提到的說它不是單純的法律戰它是一個所謂的三戰合一的混合戰那我們在因應的時候也必須全面性來看待它因為它這個東西想不戰而屈人執兵想要從內部瓦解我們\n那造成人人自危那至於說所謂缺席審判啦然後所謂的這個不受時效追溯時效的限制啦其實這個是20年來他們逐步在鋪陳那只是他現在國力比較強聲量比較大那我們自己當然政府該做的 人民該做的以及跟國際之間的合作還有我們之間跨部會單位之間的協調包括資訊的分享 預警\n以及發生之後的一些包括這些旅遊警戒這個都是做到我們可以說可是因為它有涉及到它的引渡條約或者司法互助條約那是不是因為這樣子送到這個所謂的這個國際的這個所謂的這些包括這些刑事這個組織\n這個當然我們會去因應那也不會讓他要如何因應我們不斷地在宣導然後也跟友好國家其實在不斷地針對這個東西交流甚至我們包括透過很多的機制在進行所以台灣不會孤單的這個因應不是只針對台灣針對台灣人中國人跟各國的人他都可能選擇性的適用\n只是說因為我們在國際上跟中國因為有這些涉及到的他對我們的這種直接的鎖定特定的人那這個我們也不能夠當作只是一個點名但是我一說怎麼去做好防範如果發生的時候是妥善因應但是這個事件我剛剛講有作用力就有反作力\n所以這個對中共也沒有好處啦我是說純粹在國際上來講大家這個就是一個迫害這個既有以規則為基礎的國際秩序的一個麻煩製造者那我們在這方面我們也必須要宣傳讓國際共同來因應\n是看起來現在我們沈博洋委員是一個很大的這個目標那部長你會不會就是說請跟沈博洋委員就是建議就是說有哪些國家不建議他去哪些國家是OK會嗎因為我現在想像中國的話他在非洲也好中南美洲甚至東南亞他們其實都很多這方面的這些互動就是說像建設立這個海外警察警察站服務站等等或是有司法互助這些國家我們會建議列入這些列入這個\n清單的這些 我們說受清算者好了會不會給予他們一份名單 就是說哪些國家最好是不要去哪些國家建議 其實是說 那個是安全的我們會有這種動作嗎有 我剛剛講不同層次啦就個人的層次 當然因為我們是\n一個民主自由人權的國家個人的旅行我們沒有辦法完全限制可是被點名或是有可能會被這個所謂長臂管轄跨境鎮壓的對象那我們怎麼樣做好宣導跟因應的這個準備這一個政治人物他有他的判斷\n跟智慧這個我們也必須要跟他做好這個之間怎麼樣去保護他之外其實他本身的判斷跟應處是非常重要的\nOK 好 那時間的關係因為我們也看到就是說中國對於台灣的這個壓力是給予的壓力是越來越大那當然我剛剛有看到很多單位相關的國安單位都有提到說其實我們有很多國安法還需要更加完善的這個地方我想這個行政單位跟立法單位其實應該要共同來做努力以維護台灣的這個尊嚴也好或者是說我們這些台灣人的這個在海外跟國內的這個安全\nOK 好 以上謝謝我跟委員補充一下 我們有通電或訓練外館有跟各種的發生的情境或樣貌做好我們的標準作業程序所以這個範本都有發到各個外館我們111個外館 這個是屬於在國外那當然兩岸之間有陸委會或其他的單位另外一個我想國連也都知道我們自己最清楚可能面對的情形的時候\n我想這個對兩岸交流是很大的一個破壞某種程度違邦不居亂邦不入中國讓他自決於世界因為到了中國受中國統治以外在中國以外中國也想統治\n這一種想要破壞國際的這個秩序啊其實已經引起全世界的一個共同要去面對跟因應那我也相信啊這個民主的開放社會最後還是會戰勝這種想要透過極權手段到海外去控制甚至去所謂的施以法律上的這種制裁的這種邪惡政權謝謝OK好 依山謝謝謝謝羅美女委員 部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.292 --> 00:10.612\n謝謝主席有請林部長來部長請委員好\n\n00:11.810 --> 00:37.339\n部長好部長今天我們要對中共對台灣進行這個常備管轄然後跨境鎮壓這個部分我們要表達嚴正的這個抗議那台灣的言論自由是不容這個跨境來做侵犯那剛剛陸委會有提到就是說像這個中共對於這個懲毒的這個對象的範圍是擴大然後制裁的力道也比以前強大我們也很清楚像過去的話確實都是由中共的國台辦國安\n\n00:38.779 --> 00:51.623\n國安部等中央部門來做宣布相關的規範跟這個措施可是現在我們發現的是由地方的公安局加入了來做這個具體的這個操作像這個沈博洋委員他就是在這個10月28號的時候是重慶市的公安局來發布這個公告表示對沈博洋委員涉嫌分裂國家犯罪立案來做這個\n\n01:03.207 --> 01:07.191\n偵查那國台辦甚至表示說這是落實成都22條的具體行動必要之之舉那當然他這個就是殺雞儆猴然後呢來製造恐慌跟這個這個對立其實在去年沈博洋委員10月我記得是10月14號的時候被列入這個台獨頑固頑固分子的清單\n\n01:23.624 --> 01:30.849\n而且他那時候本席也曾經針對沈博洋委員出國可能會有一些安全上的疑慮也跟國安單位來做了一個質詢我們台上的王定宇召委其實也是被列入台獨幫顧分子的親戚之一你還是學長對不對你還是沈博洋委員的學長\n\n01:50.143 --> 02:07.814\n所以我們省委員員好或是說王定宇召委往後大家都很擔心在討論說以後他們出國的時候會不會因為中國他會就是說會利用跟他們交好的一些國家那是因為我們剛有提到這個\n\n02:10.376 --> 02:27.576\n我記得剛剛事業外交部有提到就是說中國他有跟這個俄羅斯等60多個國家簽訂了刑事司法互助的條約也跟60個國家簽訂這個引渡條約所以我們都很擔心列入這個名單的我們的這些委員們或者是說\n\n02:28.217 --> 02:29.999\n他們所謂的這個台獨份子以後到這些國家去的時候我們會很擔心他們會被這些國家引渡到中國去受審其實除了這個之外其實中國在這個境外有設置這個井橋事務海外服務站\n\n02:44.838 --> 02:59.018\n那這些他們都是以這個服務戰作為這個幌子實施這個監控那甚至像非洲中南美洲有些國家他們甚至呢跟這些國家就是說我幫你來訓練當地的這個執法人員甚至就是利用這個方式來拓展他們國際執法的這個合作所以像這類的話\n\n03:02.222 --> 03:18.576\n那是不是會提高這個我們國人到海外呢甚至會被送中的這個風險所以我想了解一下說萬一發生這種事情的話我們有沒有什麼其他的制衡的方式因為像之前的話像中國中國曾經就跟摩洛哥政府配合將這個維吾爾族的異分子愛上\n\n03:21.198 --> 03:26.080\n於這個摩洛哥要轉機的時候呢就將他逮捕說要求送回中國送聖當然後來這個愛上並沒有成功送回中國是因為聯合國的這一個人權專家的介入所以後來他後來是被釋放了可是如果類似像沈博洋委員也好王廷宇專委也好如果他們到國外遇到這種狀況的話我們有哪一些具體可以抗衡的一些手段呢\n\n03:46.751 --> 04:15.731\n報告委員中共是靠鬥爭起家它是無所不用其極所以我們當然在面對這個中共的長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓我們當然全力的來做好比如說宣導然後去讓我們的外管能夠協助國人如果發生一些緊急的情況另外跟友好國家之間也能夠一起來分享情誌以外做好因應\n\n04:16.651 --> 04:30.014\n那麼其實他們針對個人在進行所謂的這個對台灣啦當然在國外其實這些長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓都有作用力跟反作用力\n\n04:31.241 --> 04:56.749\n這個也證實了中共就是它的本質所以我想全世界包括美國啦甚至像法國都曾經發生過這些情形之後他們也有一些因應但是我們國人因為有些是出入在兩岸之間或者說到了中共比較能夠掌控的像港澳或他所謂的他的這個協力的這些國家那我們就是做好事前事終跟事後\n\n04:57.949 --> 05:12.436\n各種的這個因應那我也要特別利用這個機會指出其實中共是從20年前在通過反分裂法的時候就啟動了三戰這三戰是所謂的混合戰是交互在運用就法律戰\n\n05:14.057 --> 05:26.466\n輿論戰跟心理戰而這個最後的這個心理戰其實他就是想不戰而屈人之兵他企圖造成了一種紅色的恐怖那讓你人人自危你就會有一個自我檢查而且把這個戰場\n\n05:29.588 --> 05:41.836\n打到對方的比如說台灣的內部所以我們在因應上是必須要全面性的除了是法律戰涉及到的這些之外其實它有背後更深層的一種混合戰在支撐它對台的鬥爭\n\n05:46.283 --> 06:08.186\n市部長剛有提到就是說我們請友好國家要特別就是留意我們會跟他們有很多的互動換言之就是說像王委員或是說沈博洋委員是他們也只能到友好國家去因為像現在的話我們知道說像他的這個審讀22條裡面他是可以用缺席審查\n\n06:09.006 --> 06:12.068\n就是說他們會經過缺席審查然後再來的話就是可能就會通報這個國際刑警組織發布紅色通緝令他們大概的這個方向是這麼走嘛對不對以後沈博耀委會面對這一些這一連串的這個局面嗎\n\n06:27.976 --> 06:39.501\n先審查那再來呢因為他現在已經立案偵查了嘛偵查當然就是開始要做審查審查之後呢罪名確立之後就是要通報國際刑警組織嘛再來就是通報這個紅色通緝令嘛是會來會是這樣子的走向嗎\n\n06:43.743 --> 07:04.622\n因為中共對於所謂的長臂管轄跨境世界包括自己的中國人包括台灣人也包括其他國家的人所以這種威脅是引起全世界大家都是認為是一個威權擴張那當然我們自己要做好防範萬一發生的時候也要營救\n\n07:05.883 --> 07:23.404\n可是我們怎麼樣去避免以及發生的時候去應處那我要特別提到的說它不是單純的法律戰它是一個所謂的三戰合一的混合戰那我們在因應的時候也必須全面性來看待它因為它這個東西想不戰而屈人執兵想要從內部瓦解我們\n\n07:24.165 --> 07:36.914\n那造成人人自危那至於說所謂缺席審判啦然後所謂的這個不受時效追溯時效的限制啦其實這個是20年來他們逐步在鋪陳那只是他現在國力比較強聲量比較大那我們自己當然政府該做的人民該做的以及跟國際之間的合作還有我們之間跨部會單位之間的協調包括資訊的分享預警\n\n07:51.443 --> 07:58.087\n以及發生之後的一些包括這些旅遊警戒這個都是做到我們可以說可是因為它有涉及到它的引渡條約或者司法互助條約那是不是因為這樣子送到這個所謂的這個國際的這個所謂的這些包括這些刑事這個組織\n\n08:11.734 --> 08:19.621\n這個當然我們會去因應那也不會讓他要如何因應我們不斷地在宣導然後也跟友好國家其實在不斷地針對這個東西交流甚至我們包括透過很多的機制在進行所以台灣不會孤單的這個因應不是只針對台灣針對台灣人中國人跟各國的人他都可能選擇性的適用\n\n08:35.473 --> 08:56.298\n只是說因為我們在國際上跟中國因為有這些涉及到的他對我們的這種直接的鎖定特定的人那這個我們也不能夠當作只是一個點名但是我一說怎麼去做好防範如果發生的時候是妥善因應但是這個事件我剛剛講有作用力就有反作力\n\n08:57.677 --> 09:11.136\n所以這個對中共也沒有好處啦我是說純粹在國際上來講大家這個就是一個迫害這個既有以規則為基礎的國際秩序的一個麻煩製造者那我們在這方面我們也必須要宣傳讓國際共同來因應\n\n09:14.068 --> 09:42.348\n是看起來現在我們沈博洋委員是一個很大的這個目標那部長你會不會就是說請跟沈博洋委員就是建議就是說有哪些國家不建議他去哪些國家是OK會嗎因為我現在想像中國的話他在非洲也好中南美洲甚至東南亞他們其實都很多這方面的這些互動就是說像建設立這個海外警察警察站服務站等等或是有司法互助這些國家我們會建議列入這些列入這個\n\n09:43.809 --> 09:53.259\n清單的這些我們說受清算者好了會不會給予他們一份名單就是說哪些國家最好是不要去哪些國家建議其實是說那個是安全的我們會有這種動作嗎有我剛剛講不同層次啦就個人的層次當然因為我們是\n\n10:00.387 --> 10:20.402\n一個民主自由人權的國家個人的旅行我們沒有辦法完全限制可是被點名或是有可能會被這個所謂長臂管轄跨境鎮壓的對象那我們怎麼樣做好宣導跟因應的這個準備這一個政治人物他有他的判斷\n\n10:21.624 --> 10:28.940\n跟智慧這個我們也必須要跟他做好這個之間怎麼樣去保護他之外其實他本身的判斷跟應處是非常重要的\n\n10:31.590 --> 10:59.211\nOK好那時間的關係因為我們也看到就是說中國對於台灣的這個壓力是給予的壓力是越來越大那當然我剛剛有看到很多單位相關的國安單位都有提到說其實我們有很多國安法還需要更加完善的這個地方我想這個行政單位跟立法單位其實應該要共同來做努力以維護台灣的這個尊嚴也好或者是說我們這些台灣人的這個在海外跟國內的這個安全\n\n10:59.671 --> 11:24.612\nOK好以上謝謝我跟委員補充一下我們有通電或訓練外館有跟各種的發生的情境或樣貌做好我們的標準作業程序所以這個範本都有發到各個外館我們111個外館這個是屬於在國外那當然兩岸之間有陸委會或其他的單位另外一個我想國連也都知道我們自己最清楚可能面對的情形的時候\n\n11:25.253 --> 11:39.206\n我想這個對兩岸交流是很大的一個破壞某種程度違邦不居亂邦不入中國讓他自決於世界因為到了中國受中國統治以外在中國以外中國也想統治\n\n11:40.403 --> 12:04.224\n這一種想要破壞國際的這個秩序啊其實已經引起全世界的一個共同要去面對跟因應那我也相信啊這個民主的開放社會最後還是會戰勝這種想要透過極權手段到海外去控制甚至去所謂的施以法律上的這種制裁的這種邪惡政權謝謝OK好依山謝謝謝謝羅美女委員部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.292,"end":10.612,"text":"謝謝主席 有請林部長來 部長請委員好"},{"start":11.81,"end":37.339,"text":"部長好 部長今天我們要對中共對台灣進行這個常備管轄然後跨境鎮壓這個部分我們要表達嚴正的這個抗議那台灣的言論自由是不容這個跨境來做侵犯那剛剛陸委會有提到就是說像這個中共對於這個懲毒的這個對象的範圍是擴大然後制裁的力道也比以前強大我們也很清楚像過去的話確實都是由中共的國台辦國安"},{"start":38.779,"end":51.623,"text":"國安部等中央部門來做宣布相關的規範跟這個措施可是現在我們發現的是由地方的公安局加入了來做這個具體的這個操作像這個沈博洋委員他就是在這個10月28號的時候是重慶市的公安局來發布這個公告表示對沈博洋委員涉嫌分裂國家犯罪立案來做這個"},{"start":63.207,"end":67.191,"text":"偵查那國台辦甚至表示說這是落實成都22條的具體行動必要之之舉那當然他這個就是殺雞儆猴然後呢來製造恐慌跟這個這個對立其實在去年沈博洋委員10月我記得是10月14號的時候被列入這個台獨頑固頑固分子的清單"},{"start":83.624,"end":90.849,"text":"而且他那時候本席也曾經針對沈博洋委員出國可能會有一些安全上的疑慮也跟國安單位來做了一個質詢我們台上的王定宇召委其實也是被列入台獨幫顧分子的親戚之一你還是學長對不對 你還是沈博洋委員的學長"},{"start":110.143,"end":127.814,"text":"所以我們省委員員好或是說王定宇召委往後大家都很擔心在討論說以後他們出國的時候會不會因為中國他會就是說會利用跟他們交好的一些國家那是因為我們剛有提到這個"},{"start":130.376,"end":147.576,"text":"我記得剛剛事業外交部有提到就是說中國他有跟這個俄羅斯等60多個國家簽訂了刑事司法互助的條約也跟60個國家簽訂這個引渡條約所以我們都很擔心列入這個名單的我們的這些委員們或者是說"},{"start":148.217,"end":149.999,"text":"他們所謂的這個台獨份子以後到這些國家去的時候我們會很擔心他們會被這些國家引渡到中國去受審其實除了這個之外其實中國在這個境外有設置這個井橋事務海外服務站"},{"start":164.838,"end":179.018,"text":"那這些他們都是以這個服務戰作為這個幌子實施這個監控那甚至像非洲中南美洲有些國家他們甚至呢跟這些國家就是說我幫你來訓練當地的這個執法人員甚至就是利用這個方式來拓展他們國際執法的這個合作所以像這類的話"},{"start":182.222,"end":198.576,"text":"那是不是會提高這個我們國人到海外呢甚至會被送中的這個風險所以我想了解一下說萬一發生這種事情的話我們有沒有什麼其他的制衡的方式因為像之前的話像中國中國曾經就跟摩洛哥政府配合將這個維吾爾族的異分子愛上"},{"start":201.198,"end":206.08,"text":"於這個摩洛哥要轉機的時候呢就將他逮捕說要求送回中國送聖當然後來這個愛上並沒有成功送回中國是因為聯合國的這一個人權專家的介入所以後來他後來是被釋放了可是如果類似像沈博洋委員也好王廷宇專委也好如果他們到國外遇到這種狀況的話我們有哪一些具體可以抗衡的一些手段呢"},{"start":226.751,"end":255.731,"text":"報告委員 中共是靠鬥爭起家它是無所不用其極所以我們當然在面對這個中共的長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓我們當然全力的來做好 比如說宣導然後去讓我們的外管能夠協助國人如果發生一些緊急的情況另外跟友好國家之間也能夠一起來分享情誌以外做好因應"},{"start":256.651,"end":270.014,"text":"那麼其實他們針對個人在進行所謂的這個對台灣啦 當然在國外其實這些長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓都有作用力跟反作用力"},{"start":271.241,"end":296.749,"text":"這個也證實了中共就是它的本質所以我想全世界包括美國啦甚至像法國都曾經發生過這些情形之後他們也有一些因應但是我們國人因為有些是出入在兩岸之間或者說到了中共比較能夠掌控的像港澳或他所謂的他的這個協力的這些國家那我們就是做好事前事終跟事後"},{"start":297.949,"end":312.436,"text":"各種的這個因應那我也要特別利用這個機會指出其實中共是從20年前在通過反分裂法的時候就啟動了三戰這三戰是所謂的混合戰是交互在運用就法律戰"},{"start":314.057,"end":326.466,"text":"輿論戰跟心理戰而這個最後的這個心理戰其實他就是想不戰而屈人之兵他企圖造成了一種紅色的恐怖那讓你人人自危你就會有一個自我檢查而且把這個戰場"},{"start":329.588,"end":341.836,"text":"打到對方的 比如說台灣的內部所以我們在因應上是必須要全面性的除了是法律戰涉及到的這些之外其實它有背後更深層的一種混合戰在支撐它對台的鬥爭"},{"start":346.283,"end":368.186,"text":"市部長剛有提到就是說我們請友好國家要特別就是留意我們會跟他們有很多的互動換言之就是說像王委員或是說沈博洋委員是他們也只能到友好國家去因為像現在的話我們知道說像他的這個審讀22條裡面他是可以用缺席審查"},{"start":369.006,"end":372.068,"text":"就是說他們會經過缺席審查然後再來的話就是可能就會通報這個國際刑警組織發布紅色通緝令他們大概的這個方向是這麼走嘛對不對以後沈博耀委會面對這一些這一連串的這個局面嗎"},{"start":387.976,"end":399.501,"text":"先審查那再來呢因為他現在已經立案偵查了嘛偵查當然就是開始要做審查審查之後呢罪名確立之後就是要通報國際刑警組織嘛再來就是通報這個紅色通緝令嘛是會來會是這樣子的走向嗎"},{"start":403.743,"end":424.622,"text":"因為中共對於所謂的長臂管轄跨境世界包括自己的中國人包括台灣人也包括其他國家的人所以這種威脅是引起全世界大家都是認為是一個威權擴張那當然我們自己要做好防範萬一發生的時候也要營救"},{"start":425.883,"end":443.404,"text":"可是我們怎麼樣去避免以及發生的時候去應處那我要特別提到的說它不是單純的法律戰它是一個所謂的三戰合一的混合戰那我們在因應的時候也必須全面性來看待它因為它這個東西想不戰而屈人執兵想要從內部瓦解我們"},{"start":444.165,"end":456.914,"text":"那造成人人自危那至於說所謂缺席審判啦然後所謂的這個不受時效追溯時效的限制啦其實這個是20年來他們逐步在鋪陳那只是他現在國力比較強聲量比較大那我們自己當然政府該做的 人民該做的以及跟國際之間的合作還有我們之間跨部會單位之間的協調包括資訊的分享 預警"},{"start":471.443,"end":478.087,"text":"以及發生之後的一些包括這些旅遊警戒這個都是做到我們可以說可是因為它有涉及到它的引渡條約或者司法互助條約那是不是因為這樣子送到這個所謂的這個國際的這個所謂的這些包括這些刑事這個組織"},{"start":491.734,"end":499.621,"text":"這個當然我們會去因應那也不會讓他要如何因應我們不斷地在宣導然後也跟友好國家其實在不斷地針對這個東西交流甚至我們包括透過很多的機制在進行所以台灣不會孤單的這個因應不是只針對台灣針對台灣人中國人跟各國的人他都可能選擇性的適用"},{"start":515.473,"end":536.298,"text":"只是說因為我們在國際上跟中國因為有這些涉及到的他對我們的這種直接的鎖定特定的人那這個我們也不能夠當作只是一個點名但是我一說怎麼去做好防範如果發生的時候是妥善因應但是這個事件我剛剛講有作用力就有反作力"},{"start":537.677,"end":551.136,"text":"所以這個對中共也沒有好處啦我是說純粹在國際上來講大家這個就是一個迫害這個既有以規則為基礎的國際秩序的一個麻煩製造者那我們在這方面我們也必須要宣傳讓國際共同來因應"},{"start":554.068,"end":582.348,"text":"是看起來現在我們沈博洋委員是一個很大的這個目標那部長你會不會就是說請跟沈博洋委員就是建議就是說有哪些國家不建議他去哪些國家是OK會嗎因為我現在想像中國的話他在非洲也好中南美洲甚至東南亞他們其實都很多這方面的這些互動就是說像建設立這個海外警察警察站服務站等等或是有司法互助這些國家我們會建議列入這些列入這個"},{"start":583.809,"end":593.259,"text":"清單的這些 我們說受清算者好了會不會給予他們一份名單 就是說哪些國家最好是不要去哪些國家建議 其實是說 那個是安全的我們會有這種動作嗎有 我剛剛講不同層次啦就個人的層次 當然因為我們是"},{"start":600.387,"end":620.402,"text":"一個民主自由人權的國家個人的旅行我們沒有辦法完全限制可是被點名或是有可能會被這個所謂長臂管轄跨境鎮壓的對象那我們怎麼樣做好宣導跟因應的這個準備這一個政治人物他有他的判斷"},{"start":621.624,"end":628.94,"text":"跟智慧這個我們也必須要跟他做好這個之間怎麼樣去保護他之外其實他本身的判斷跟應處是非常重要的"},{"start":631.59,"end":659.211,"text":"OK 好 那時間的關係因為我們也看到就是說中國對於台灣的這個壓力是給予的壓力是越來越大那當然我剛剛有看到很多單位相關的國安單位都有提到說其實我們有很多國安法還需要更加完善的這個地方我想這個行政單位跟立法單位其實應該要共同來做努力以維護台灣的這個尊嚴也好或者是說我們這些台灣人的這個在海外跟國內的這個安全"},{"start":659.671,"end":684.612,"text":"OK 好 以上謝謝我跟委員補充一下 我們有通電或訓練外館有跟各種的發生的情境或樣貌做好我們的標準作業程序所以這個範本都有發到各個外館我們111個外館 這個是屬於在國外那當然兩岸之間有陸委會或其他的單位另外一個我想國連也都知道我們自己最清楚可能面對的情形的時候"},{"start":685.253,"end":699.206,"text":"我想這個對兩岸交流是很大的一個破壞某種程度違邦不居亂邦不入中國讓他自決於世界因為到了中國受中國統治以外在中國以外中國也想統治"},{"start":700.403,"end":724.224,"text":"這一種想要破壞國際的這個秩序啊其實已經引起全世界的一個共同要去面對跟因應那我也相信啊這個民主的開放社會最後還是會戰勝這種想要透過極權手段到海外去控制甚至去所謂的施以法律上的這種制裁的這種邪惡政權謝謝OK好 依山謝謝謝謝羅美女委員 部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":217,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時44分）謝謝主席，有請林部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長好。部長，中共對台灣進行長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓，對此我們要表達嚴正的抗議，台灣的言論自由不容跨境侵犯。剛剛陸委會有提到，像中共對於懲獨對象的範圍是擴大，制裁力道也比以前強大，我們也很清楚，像過去確實都是由中共的國台辦、國安部等重要部門來宣布相關的規範跟措施，可是現在我們發現地方的公安局加入了，來做具體的操作。像沈伯洋委員，在10月28號的時候，由重慶市公安局來發布這個公告，表示對沈伯洋委員涉嫌分裂國家犯罪立案偵查，國台辦甚至表示這是落實「懲毒22條」的具體行動、必要之舉，當然這就是殺雞儆猴，來製造恐慌跟對立。","其實在去年我記得是10月14號的時候，沈伯洋委員被列入台獨頑固份子清單，那時候本席也曾經針對沈伯洋委員出國可能會有一些安全上的疑慮質詢國安單位，臺上的王定宇召委也被列入台獨頑固份子清單之一，你還是學長，對不對？你還是沈伯洋委員的學長。所以沈委員也好，或者是王定宇召委，大家都很擔心地討論以後他們出國時，中國會不會利用跟他們交好的一些國家。我記得剛剛是外交部有提到，也就是中國跟俄羅斯等六十多個國家簽訂了刑事司法互助的條約，也跟60個國家簽訂引渡條約，所以我們都很擔心列入名單的這些委員們，或者是他們所謂的台獨分子以後到這些國家的時候，我們很擔心他們會被這些國家引渡到中國受審。","除了這個之外，中國在境外設置警僑事務海外服務站，他們都是以服務站作為幌子來實施監控，甚至於像非洲、中南美洲有一些國家，他們甚至跟這些國家說要幫忙訓練當地的執法人員，就是利用這個方式來拓展他們國際執法的合作，像這類的話，是不是會提高我們國人到海外，甚至會有被送中的風險？所以我想了解一下，萬一發生這種事情，我們有沒有什麼其他的制衡方式？因為之前像中國曾經跟摩洛哥政府配合，在維吾爾族的異議份子艾伊尚於摩洛哥轉機時將他逮捕，要求送回中國受審；當然後來艾伊尚並沒有成功送回中國是因為聯合國人權專家的介入，所以他後來被釋放了。可是類似像沈伯洋委員也好、王定宇召委也好，如果他們到國外遇到這種狀況的話，我們有哪一些具體可以抗衡的手段呢？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，中共是靠鬥爭起家，他是無所不用其極，當代面對中共的長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓，我們當然全力做好宣導，讓我們的外館能夠協助國人如果發生一些緊急的情況，另外跟友好國家之間也能夠一起分享情資，並做好因應。當然在國外這些長臂管轄跟跨境鎮壓都有作用力跟反作用力，這個也證實了中共的本質。我想全世界，包括美國，甚至像法國都曾經發生過這些情形之後，他們也有一些因應，但是我們有些國人因為出入在兩岸之間，或者是到了中共比較能夠掌控的地方，像港澳或是所謂他的協力國家，我們就要做好事前、事中跟事後的各種因應。我也要特別利用這個機會指出，中共是從20年前通過反分裂法的時候，就啟動了三戰，這三戰是所謂的混合戰在交互運用，就是法律戰、輿論戰跟心理戰，而最後的心理戰其實就是想不戰而屈人之兵，企圖造成一種紅色恐怖，讓你人人自危，你就會自我檢查，而且把這個戰場打到對方的……比如說台灣的內部，所以我們在因應上也是必須要全面性的，除了法律戰涉及到的這一些之外，其實它有背後更深層的一種混合戰，在支撐它對台的鬥爭。"],["羅委員美玲：是，部長，剛剛有提到我們請友好國家要特別留意，我們會跟他們有很多的互動。換言之，像王委員或沈伯洋委員是不是也只能到友好國家去？因為像現在的話，我們知道像他們懲獨第二十二條可以用缺席審查。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["羅委員美玲：就是他們會經過缺席審查，再來可能就會通報國際刑警組織發布紅色通緝令，他們大概的方向是這麼走嘛，對不對？以後沈伯洋委員會面對這一連串的局面嗎？先審查，再來……因為它現在已經立案偵查了，偵查當然就開始要審查，審查之後罪名確立就要通報國際刑警組織，再來就是通報紅色通緝令，未來會是這樣子的走向嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：中共對於所謂的長臂管轄跨境鎮壓，包括自己的中國人，包括台灣人，也包括其它國家的人，這種威脅引起全世界，大家都認為是威權擴張，當然我們自己要做好防範，萬一發生的時候也要營救，可是我們怎麼樣避免以及發生的時候去應處，我要特別提到的是，它不是單純的法律戰，它是所謂三戰合一的混合戰，我們在因應的時候也必須全面性來看待它，因為它這個東西想不戰而屈人之兵，想要從內部瓦解我們，造成人人自危。至於所謂缺席審判、不受追溯時效的限制，其實這是20年來他們逐步在鋪陳，只是他現在國力比較強、聲量比較大。我們自己當然政府該做的、人民該做的，以及跟國際之間的合作，還有我們跨部會單位之間的協調，包括資訊分享、預警以及發生之後的一些……包括這些旅遊警戒，這些都是我們可以做到的，可是因為有涉及到它的引渡條約或者司法互助條約，是不是因為這樣子送到所謂國際的……包括這些刑事組織，這個當然我們會去因應，也不會讓它……"],["羅委員美玲：要如何因應？如果說……"],["林部長佳龍：我們不斷地宣導，也跟友好國家不斷地針對這個東西交流，甚至包括透過很多的機制在進行，所以台灣不會孤單的，這個因應不是只針對台灣，針對台灣人、中國人跟各國的人都可能選擇性的適用，因為我們在國際上跟中國有一些涉及到他對我們直接鎖定特定的人，我們也不能夠就當作只是點名。我的意思是說怎麼去做好防範，如果發生的時候如何妥善因應。但是這個事件，我剛剛講有作用力就有反作用力，這對中共也沒有好處啦！我是說純粹在國際上來講，這就是迫害既有以規則為基礎的國際秩序的一個麻煩製造者，我們在這方面也必須要宣傳，讓國際共同因應。"],["羅委員美玲：是，看起來現在沈伯洋委員是一個很大的目標，部長，你會不會建議沈伯洋委員有哪些國家不要去、哪些國家是OK，會嗎？因為現在像中國的話，他在非洲也好、中南美洲甚至東南亞，他們其實都有很多這方面的互動，像今天就連海外警察站、服務站等等，或是有司法互助這些國家，我們會建議列入一個清單，這一些……我們說受清算者好了，會不會給予他們一份名單，哪些國家最好是不要去、哪些國家建議是安全的，我們會有這種動作嗎？就是跟人身安全有很大的關係。"],["林部長佳龍：有，我剛剛講不同層次啦！就個人層次，當然因為我們是一個民主自由人權的國家，個人的旅行我們沒有辦法完全限制，可是被點名或是有可能會被所謂長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓的對象，我們怎麼樣做好宣導跟因應的準備，就一個政治人物而言，他有他的判斷跟智慧，我們也必須要跟他做好這之間怎麼樣去保護他，此外，其實他本身的判斷跟應處是非常重要的。"],["羅委員美玲：好，因為我們也看到中國對台灣給予的壓力越來越大，當然我剛剛有看到很多單位，相關的國安單位都有提到，其實我們有很多國安法還需要更加完善的地方，我想行政單位跟立法單位其實應該要共同努力，以維護台灣的尊嚴或者是我們台灣人在海外跟國內的安全。OK，以上，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：好，跟委員補充一下，我們有通電跟訓練外館，有把各種發展的情境或樣貌做好我們的標準作業程序，所以這個範本都有發到各個外館，我們111個外館，這個是屬於在國外，當然兩岸之間有陸委會或其它單位。另外一個，我想國人也都知道，我們自己最清楚可能會面對的情形的時候，我想這個對兩岸交流是很大的破壞，某種程度危邦不入，亂邦不居，中國讓其自絕於世界，因為到了中國受中國統治以外，在中國以外的中國也想統治他想要破壞國際秩序，其實已經引起全世界共同要去面對跟因應，我也相信民主的開放社會最後還是會戰勝想要透過極權手段到海外控制，甚至施以法律上制裁的這種邪惡政權。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅美玲委員，部長請回。羅委員不用擔心，我跟沈伯洋委員前兩個禮拜週末都出國開會，我們也都好好坐飛機回來了，所以中國想做的事情，我們要好好應處，但是也不用被他嚇到，沒用啦！我已經被警告3次了。","接下來陳俊宇委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","賴士葆","范雲","邱志偉","陳永康","林憶君","黃捷","黃仁","牛煦庭"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部、經濟部、大陸委員會報告「我國參與2025年度『亞太經濟合作（APEC）經濟領\n袖會議』的任務及目標」，並備質詢；二、邀請國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會、法務部、法\n務部調查局報告「中共對台進行長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓及我國相關應處」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00010"}}}