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\"那我們也關注到他們也開始在利用一些比如說美國比較親中的一些學者啦智庫啦等等去散播一些似是而非的言論然後中方再去擴大這樣子的言論的一個渲染等於就是說利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的這個東西利用美國親中的學者\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 397.102, \"end\": 397.362, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 397.362, \"end\": 397.562, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 397.562, \"end\": 397.842, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 397.842, \"end\": 397.983, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 397.983, \"end\": 398.423, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 398.423, \"end\": 398.643, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 398.643, \"end\": 398.943, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 398.943, \"end\": 399.043, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 399.043, \"end\": 399.203, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 399.203, \"end\": 399.323, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 399.323, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 411.251, \"end\": 411.391, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"嘴\", \"start\": 411.391, \"end\": 411.911, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 411.911, \"end\": 412.031, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 412.031, \"end\": 412.291, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 412.291, \"end\": 412.411, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 412.411, \"end\": 412.591, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 412.591, \"end\": 412.752, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 412.752, \"end\": 413.252, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 413.252, \"end\": 413.472, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 413.472, \"end\": 413.552, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 413.552, \"end\": 413.652, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 413.652, \"end\": 414.132, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"親\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 414.132, \"end\": 414.272, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 414.272, \"end\": 414.372, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 414.372, \"end\": 414.593, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 414.593, \"end\": 414.613, \"score\": 0.954}]}, {\"start\": 415.353, \"end\": 443.692, \"text\": \"那我們也有關注到像這樣子的這個現象在過往也譬如說在那個Foreign Affairs還有最近大家有關注到Times的這一篇那麼在網路上面來說確實都有一些異常的這個帳號然後會刻意的來加大渲染那渲染的主題大概還包含了像是剛剛您所提到的像以美論棄台論等等然後並且會框稱說你看在川習會的時候已經談到了所謂的這個兩岸同屬一中啦或者是不支持台獨啦但事實上這個有可能只是在會談的過程中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 415.353, \"end\": 415.493, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 415.493, \"end\": 415.593, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 415.593, \"end\": 415.713, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 415.713, \"end\": 415.994, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,438 --> 00:00:26,812\n好謝謝趙偉我們有請佳榮部長好林部長請部長早委員長部長我們這幾天大家都在關心這個川習會那後續的這個APEC會議發展的走向我們代表團在本週二28號已經提前三天抵達韓國了那也比\n\n2\n00:00:27,492 --> 00:00:54,241\n以往更早那相對來說我們也爭取更多的時間依照我們代表團所透露只要有可能的話都會盡量安排相關的這個會面那我想先請教部長就是在明天的這個峰會正式登場之前我們的代表團是否有機會可以順利安排到雙邊的會議那或是有其他非正式的這個會面的機會\n\n3\n00:00:55,416 --> 00:01:22,494\n是在就是領袖代表方面當然已經有跟一些國家這個討論之後有安排那因為這個也涉及到各方的這個考量我們等這個見面之後自然就會跟這個社會來做報告那至於在會場上比較非正式也有很多的機會可以交談\n\n4\n00:01:24,555 --> 00:01:36,680\n我們也有跟一些國家也有先溝通非正式的方式所以除了正式的雙邊的會談以外也有非正式的交談\n\n5\n00:01:38,336 --> 00:02:04,747\n好那在這個報導當中我們也看到了我們今年台灣這邊也有積極在爭取能夠參與這個撰稿會議並且預計能夠達成五項的這個文件的發言相信我們在這個會議當中能夠和其他的這個經濟體平等的提出文字的建議那來表達我們台灣的立場並且能夠有機會來參與協商等等\n\n6\n00:02:07,108 --> 00:02:30,126\n那在此我還是請教部長是否我們針對這個部分能夠透露的部分我們在什麼樣的這個議題當中有機會可以提出發言並且能夠發揮比較大的一個影響力是報告委員因為APEC基本上是採取共識決那我們當然有平等參與的權利之外也有一定的影響力\n\n7\n00:02:31,227 --> 00:02:36,432\n所以對於今年的主題我們都有準備包括倡議另外就是我們的領袖代表也會有發言所以這個部分就是剛剛講的五大議題方面那因為今年特別重視AI就是數位科技的應用\n\n8\n00:02:50,706 --> 00:02:53,549\n那我們也認為台灣在這方面可以貢獻所以也有針對這個提出一個未來這個跟健康照護有關的這個倡議所以我們不只是去參與啦我們也可以在這裡面倡議\n\n9\n00:03:10,973 --> 00:03:27,518\n那部長前幾天我們也看到這個川普總統他去訪問日本那並且與這個高市首相互動非常的熱絡那高市首相也表示他們在會談期間確認台海平和平穩定的\n\n10\n00:03:27,958 --> 00:03:51,258\n一個重要性那高市首相不但要延續先前友台的一個立場在他上任至今也接連在這個日本東協峰會等重要的國際場合呼籲國際要重視台海的一個和平穩定對此我想請教部長我們在這個APEC期間有沒有這個信心能夠和高市首相安排到這個雙邊會談來討論\n\n11\n00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:23,278\n我們與日本之間的這個經濟安全合作的可能有我們在安排中好那不管是這個川習會還是這個APEC會議後續的發展我們還是希望說我們這個外交部這邊能夠緊密的來掌握相關的訊息那後續我們如果有新的訊息再和部長來做一個討論好那部長您先請為那接續我們邀請這個省副主委\n\n12\n00:04:32,358 --> 00:04:56,620\n副主委早副委員早就這個中共的資訊戰還有宣傳戰來請教我們副主委我們陸委會在這個報告當中提到中方需要藉由這個川習會來經營美中的關係原判中方將與這個川習會重申對台的一個立場並且藉機加大對台宣傳的一個操作\n\n13\n00:04:58,510 --> 00:05:26,514\n我們在這個近期也看到這個有一連串的一個公式包括中國的一個三個八十週那也設立了一個台灣光復紀念日那王滬寧在談話當中也提到統一後有七個更好那還有一個是新華社署名中台文的一個作者連續發表這個促統的相關文章\n\n14\n00:05:27,657 --> 00:05:54,534\n他們不斷的堆疊出這麼多打擊台灣的言論或是在這個十五五的這個規劃建議當中提出要打擊這個台獨牢牢把握這個兩岸的一個關係他想要主導這個想要這個主導權那我想請教這個副主委就是對於中共在這個川習會前密集對台的一個文攻我們這邊有沒有觀察到\n\n15\n00:05:55,434 --> 00:06:16,341\n和中共敘事相同的一個異常帳號有在增加的一個現象另外這個川習會還有APEC會議之後中方會不會有更多的這個以美論或是棄台論的一個操作還是會持續觸統或是打擊台獨作為他們主要的一個宣傳有沒有可能\n\n16\n00:06:16,841 --> 00:06:36,061\n是非常謝謝委員的指教那首先您剛提到的就是關於在網路上面有沒有出現異常帳號來進一步的來去渲染相關的這個以美論棄台論那麼我們會跟這個國安單位特別是國安會還有國安局這邊來密切的在輿情上面來去做關注那這邊跟委員報告確實是有異常的這個現象\n\n17\n00:06:37,102 --> 00:06:54,613\n那我們也關注到他們也開始在利用一些比如說美國比較親中的一些學者啦智庫啦等等去散播一些似是而非的言論然後中方再去擴大這樣子的言論的一個渲染等於就是說利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的這個東西利用美國親中的學者\n\n18\n00:06:55,353 --> 00:07:23,692\n那我們也有關注到像這樣子的這個現象在過往也譬如說在那個ForeignAffairs還有最近大家有關注到Times的這一篇那麼在網路上面來說確實都有一些異常的這個帳號然後會刻意的來加大渲染那渲染的主題大概還包含了像是剛剛您所提到的像以美論棄台論等等然後並且會框稱說你看在川習會的時候已經談到了所謂的這個兩岸同屬一中啦或者是不支持台獨啦但事實上這個有可能只是在會談的過程中\n\n19\n00:07:25,874 --> 00:07:43,225\n習近平提出來但是川普可能不見得會有表態或者是表達不同意但他們可能就會利用這樣子的一個這個去頭去尾的這樣子的方式然後來來進行一個輿論的這個渲染所以我們也會針對這樣的這個情況因為待會就要舉行川習會會不會真的有這樣子這個情形我們都會加以密注好\n\n20\n00:07:44,042 --> 00:08:09,048\n那另外就想針對這個宗教統戰的部分來就叫我們副主委中共滲透我國的這個宗教活動已經行之有年但是在民間這個研究團體團隊指出在去年大概有一萬六千人附中參與這個宗教交流的一個活動那其中有超過一半都是在這個福建省來舉行了\n\n21\n00:08:10,208 --> 00:08:25,423\n那我們陸委會也認為這個隱藏的黑數應該遠遠不止這些那我想請教副主委我們觀察到近期中共對於宗教統戰他的做法是怎麼樣那會有什麼樣的一個特徵或是論述\n\n22\n00:08:26,264 --> 00:08:43,609\n我們是否能夠有什麼方式來反制是非常謝謝委員的這個指教那首先就是宗教統戰確實是我們不斷來提醒國人應該要注意到的那我們首先還是要表達政府的立場健康有序的各樣的這個交流我們都會予以尊重並且予以鼓勵\n\n23\n00:08:44,409 --> 00:09:02,256\n那在宗教統戰在宗教交流的這一塊來講我們認為如果雙方是針對宗教的教義的延期或者是針對以鬼的這樣子的一種交流的話我們基本上都是非常的鼓勵而且會協助主動協助給予協助但比較遺憾的是我們看到在雙方進行宗教交流的時候往往\n\n24\n00:09:02,836 --> 00:09:20,944\n中方就會放進了一些統戰的元素比如說他會特別去強調這個所謂的兩岸同屬一中啦把媽祖形容為所謂的中國神啦用這樣的這個方式那甚至是去渲染這個包含像是到中國去進行宗教交流就是回家然後兩岸同屬一中兩岸同跟同源\n\n25\n00:09:21,864 --> 00:09:37,757\n這樣子的一些輿論跟這樣子的一種敘述都會在宗教交流的過程中不斷的出現都會不斷的這個出現彷彿是要來進行一種輿論上面的一種洗腦那我們近期還關注到特別的有趣的這個現象也跟委員做一個分享那我們也發現宗教交流以外\n\n26\n00:09:38,237 --> 00:09:58,520\n那他們甚至會開始來擴張一些所謂的產業鏈譬如說在重要的這個宗教的景點啦他們就會來開始有一些這個文旅啦觀光的這樣子的套裝行程喔那在這個套裝行程的過程中甚至也是會夾雜的一些去宣傳中國好棒棒啦或者紅色產業供應鏈等等的這樣子的一些敘事喔更甚至於有趣的來囉\n\n27\n00:09:59,141 --> 00:10:15,698\n他甚至會在進行宗教交流的過程中邀請我們的年輕人去然後來嘗試來進行因緣配對是這非常的妙進行因緣配對那做這樣子的一種可能要透過心靈融合啦或者是來進行一種人緣上面的這樣子的一種統戰的作為這個我們都會後續都會持續的祕訣\n\n28\n00:10:17,059 --> 00:10:42,032\n好那中國這個國家宗教事務局在上個月他公布一個宗教教職人員網路行為規範那在最後他還聲稱台灣的宗教教職人員也參照本這個規範來執行那我想請教就像這種片面納管我國宗教教職人員的做法是不是也一樣隱含著帶有這個長臂管轄的一個企圖他實際上\n\n29\n00:10:43,573 --> 00:11:00,060\n的這個效果又是什麼這部分副主委是不是簡單說明一下是謝謝謝謝委員那確實剛剛您所提到這個長臂管轄用法律這也是我們今天沈伯陽委員現在也到了就是類似的這樣子的一個情況的一樣的這個來進行各式各樣的這個操作在宗教也不放過\n\n30\n00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:27,183\n那我們有特別注意到9月15號公布的這個宗教教職人員網絡行為規範裡面喔那在第二條的地方有提到宗教的網絡行為要接受政府監管要接受政府監管還有社會監管這是非常誇張的事情啦齁那另外第九條裡面甚至還提到了說不能進行民族分裂不能進行民族分裂所以我們會在這個議題上面來講會特別的提醒喔國人在宗教交流的過程中應該還是要注意人身安全然後避免\n\n31\n00:11:28,163 --> 00:11:56,363\n会涉入到这个人生的这个风险来进行国人的这个提醒跟提示那另外针对反制的这个部分来讲的话我们也会特别提醒这个中方那么如果滥加的利用宗教交流来睡醒统战的话那么未来他们到台湾来进行宗教交流的话我们大概也会有相对应的一些这个管理跟作为比如说我们也会要求他们的行程必须要相对的这个单纯或者是他们的团体的成员如果里面有涉及到台办系统\n\n32\n00:11:57,223 --> 00:12:12,158\n統戰系統的話而不是宗教人員的話那麼像這樣子的情況我們也會特別的來予以提醒不應該有這樣的情況的這個出現好我們台灣的這個民間信仰這個文化盛行那政府在這個處理上的尺度應該要小心拿捏\n\n33\n00:12:12,919 --> 00:12:33,552\n在合理的這個適度情況之下同時能夠防範中共的這種假交流真統戰的這個目的對於相關審核的機制我們更加精進的話這部分我要請我們陸委會能夠持續關心那也避免這個中共對我長臂管轄的手段的一個操作好以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n438\t26812\t好 謝謝趙偉 我們有請佳榮部長好 林部長請部長早委員長部長 我們這幾天大家都在關心這個川習會那後續的這個APEC會議發展的走向我們代表團在本週二28號已經提前三天抵達韓國了那也比\n27492\t54241\t以往更早那相對來說我們也爭取更多的時間依照我們代表團所透露只要有可能的話都會盡量安排相關的這個會面那我想先請教部長就是在明天的這個峰會正式登場之前我們的代表團是否有機會可以順利安排到雙邊的會議那或是有其他非正式的這個會面的機會\n55416\t82494\t是 在就是領袖代表方面當然已經有跟一些國家這個討論之後有安排那因為這個也涉及到各方的這個考量我們等這個見面之後自然就會跟這個社會來做報告那至於在會場上比較非正式也有很多的機會可以交談\n84555\t96680\t我們也有跟一些國家也有先溝通非正式的方式所以除了正式的雙邊的會談以外也有非正式的交談\n98336\t124747\t好 那在這個報導當中我們也看到了我們今年台灣這邊也有積極在爭取能夠參與這個撰稿會議並且預計能夠達成五項的這個文件的發言相信我們在這個會議當中能夠和其他的這個經濟體平等的提出文字的建議那來表達我們台灣的立場並且能夠有機會來參與協商等等\n127108\t150126\t那在此我還是請教部長是否我們針對這個部分能夠透露的部分我們在什麼樣的這個議題當中有機會可以提出發言並且能夠發揮比較大的一個影響力是 報告委員因為APEC基本上是採取共識決那我們當然有平等參與的權利之外也有一定的影響力\n151227\t156432\t所以對於今年的主題我們都有準備包括倡議另外就是我們的領袖代表也會有發言所以這個部分就是剛剛講的五大議題方面那因為今年特別重視AI就是數位科技的應用\n170706\t173549\t那我們也認為台灣在這方面可以貢獻所以也有針對這個提出一個未來這個跟健康照護有關的這個倡議所以我們不只是去參與啦我們也可以在這裡面倡議\n190973\t207518\t那部長前幾天我們也看到這個川普總統他去訪問日本那並且與這個高市首相互動非常的熱絡那高市首相也表示他們在會談期間確認台海平和平穩定的\n207958\t231258\t一個重要性那高市首相不但要延續先前友台的一個立場在他上任至今也接連在這個日本東協峰會等重要的國際場合呼籲國際要重視台海的一個和平穩定對此我想請教部長我們在這個APEC期間有沒有這個信心能夠和高市首相安排到這個雙邊會談來討論\n234520\t263278\t我們與日本之間的這個經濟安全合作的可能有 我們在安排中好那不管是這個川習會還是這個APEC會議後續的發展我們還是希望說我們這個外交部這邊能夠緊密的來掌握相關的訊息那後續我們如果有新的訊息再和部長來做一個討論好那部長您先請為那接續我們邀請這個省副主委\n272358\t296620\t副主委早副委員早就這個中共的資訊戰還有宣傳戰來請教我們副主委我們陸委會在這個報告當中提到中方需要藉由這個川習會來經營美中的關係原判中方將與這個川習會重申對台的一個立場並且藉機加大對台宣傳的一個操作\n298510\t326514\t我們在這個近期也看到這個有一連串的一個公式包括中國的一個三個八十週那也設立了一個台灣光復紀念日那王滬寧在談話當中也提到統一後有七個更好那還有一個是新華社署名中台文的一個作者連續發表這個促統的相關文章\n327657\t354534\t他們不斷的堆疊出這麼多打擊台灣的言論或是在這個十五五的這個規劃建議當中提出要打擊這個台獨牢牢把握這個兩岸的一個關係他想要主導這個想要這個主導權那我想請教這個副主委就是對於中共在這個川習會前密集對台的一個文攻我們這邊有沒有觀察到\n355434\t376341\t和中共敘事相同的一個異常帳號有在增加的一個現象另外這個川習會還有APEC會議之後中方會不會有更多的這個以美論或是棄台論的一個操作還是會持續觸統或是打擊台獨作為他們主要的一個宣傳 有沒有可能\n376841\t396061\t是 非常謝謝委員的指教那首先您剛提到的就是關於在網路上面有沒有出現異常帳號來進一步的來去渲染相關的這個以美論 棄台論那麼我們會跟這個國安單位特別是國安會還有國安局這邊來密切的在輿情上面來去做關注那這邊跟委員報告確實是有異常的這個現象\n397102\t414613\t那我們也關注到他們也開始在利用一些比如說美國比較親中的一些學者啦智庫啦等等去散播一些似是而非的言論然後中方再去擴大這樣子的言論的一個渲染等於就是說利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的這個東西利用美國親中的學者\n415353\t443692\t那我們也有關注到像這樣子的這個現象在過往也譬如說在那個Foreign Affairs還有最近大家有關注到Times的這一篇那麼在網路上面來說確實都有一些異常的這個帳號然後會刻意的來加大渲染那渲染的主題大概還包含了像是剛剛您所提到的像以美論棄台論等等然後並且會框稱說你看在川習會的時候已經談到了所謂的這個兩岸同屬一中啦或者是不支持台獨啦但事實上這個有可能只是在會談的過程中\n445874\t463225\t習近平提出來但是川普可能不見得會有表態或者是表達不同意但他們可能就會利用這樣子的一個這個去頭去尾的這樣子的方式然後來來進行一個輿論的這個渲染所以我們也會針對這樣的這個情況因為待會就要舉行川習會會不會真的有這樣子這個情形我們都會加以密注好\n464042\t489048\t那另外就想針對這個宗教統戰的部分來就叫我們副主委中共滲透我國的這個宗教活動已經行之有年但是在民間這個研究團體團隊指出在去年大概有一萬六千人附中參與這個宗教交流的一個活動那其中有超過一半都是在這個福建省來舉行了\n490208\t505423\t那我們陸委會也認為這個隱藏的黑數應該遠遠不止這些那我想請教副主委我們觀察到近期中共對於宗教統戰他的做法是怎麼樣那會有什麼樣的一個特徵或是論述\n506264\t523609\t我們是否能夠有什麼方式來反制是 非常謝謝委員的這個指教那首先就是宗教統戰確實是我們不斷來提醒國人應該要注意到的那我們首先還是要表達政府的立場健康有序的各樣的這個交流我們都會予以尊重並且予以鼓勵\n524409\t542256\t那在宗教統戰在宗教交流的這一塊來講我們認為如果雙方是針對宗教的教義的延期或者是針對以鬼的這樣子的一種交流的話我們基本上都是非常的鼓勵而且會協助主動協助給予協助但比較遺憾的是我們看到在雙方進行宗教交流的時候往往\n542836\t560944\t中方就會放進了一些統戰的元素比如說他會特別去強調這個所謂的兩岸同屬一中啦把媽祖形容為所謂的中國神啦用這樣的這個方式那甚至是去渲染這個包含像是到中國去進行宗教交流就是回家然後兩岸同屬一中兩岸同跟同源\n561864\t577757\t這樣子的一些輿論跟這樣子的一種敘述都會在宗教交流的過程中不斷的出現都會不斷的這個出現彷彿是要來進行一種輿論上面的一種洗腦那我們近期還關注到特別的有趣的這個現象也跟委員做一個分享那我們也發現宗教交流以外\n578237\t598520\t那他們甚至會開始來擴張一些所謂的產業鏈譬如說在重要的這個宗教的景點啦他們就會來開始有一些這個文旅啦觀光的這樣子的套裝行程喔那在這個套裝行程的過程中甚至也是會夾雜的一些去宣傳中國好棒棒啦或者紅色產業供應鏈等等的這樣子的一些敘事喔更甚至於有趣的來囉\n599141\t615698\t他甚至會在進行宗教交流的過程中邀請我們的年輕人去然後來嘗試來進行因緣配對是這非常的妙進行因緣配對那做這樣子的一種可能要透過心靈融合啦或者是來進行一種人緣上面的這樣子的一種統戰的作為這個我們都會後續都會持續的祕訣\n617059\t642032\t好 那中國這個國家宗教事務局在上個月他公布一個宗教教職人員網路行為規範那在最後他還聲稱台灣的宗教教職人員也參照本這個規範來執行那我想請教就像這種片面納管我國宗教教職人員的做法是不是也一樣隱含著帶有這個長臂管轄的一個企圖他實際上\n643573\t660060\t的這個效果又是什麼這部分副主委是不是簡單說明一下是 謝謝 謝謝委員那確實剛剛您所提到這個長臂管轄用法律這也是我們今天沈伯陽委員現在也到了就是類似的這樣子的一個情況的一樣的這個來進行各式各樣的這個操作在宗教也不放過\n660740\t687183\t那我們有特別注意到9月15號公布的這個宗教教職人員網絡行為規範裡面喔那在第二條的地方有提到宗教的網絡行為要接受政府監管要接受政府監管還有社會監管這是非常誇張的事情啦齁那另外第九條裡面甚至還提到了說不能進行民族分裂不能進行民族分裂所以我們會在這個議題上面來講會特別的提醒喔國人在宗教交流的過程中應該還是要注意人身安全然後避免\n688163\t716363\t会涉入到这个人生的这个风险来进行国人的这个提醒跟提示那另外针对反制的这个部分来讲的话我们也会特别提醒这个中方那么如果滥加的利用宗教交流来睡醒统战的话那么未来他们到台湾来进行宗教交流的话我们大概也会有相对应的一些这个管理跟作为比如说我们也会要求他们的行程必须要相对的这个单纯或者是他们的团体的成员如果里面有涉及到台办系统\n717223\t732158\t統戰系統的話而不是宗教人員的話那麼像這樣子的情況我們也會特別的來予以提醒不應該有這樣的情況的這個出現好 我們台灣的這個民間信仰這個文化盛行那政府在這個處理上的尺度應該要小心拿捏\n732919\t753552\t在合理的這個適度情況之下同時能夠防範中共的這種假交流 真統戰的這個目的對於相關審核的機制我們更加精進的話這部分我要請我們陸委會能夠持續關心那也避免這個中共對我長臂管轄的手段的一個操作好 以上 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝趙偉 我們有請佳榮部長好 林部長請部長早委員長部長 我們這幾天大家都在關心這個川習會那後續的這個APEC會議發展的走向我們代表團在本週二28號已經提前三天抵達韓國了那也比\n以往更早那相對來說我們也爭取更多的時間依照我們代表團所透露只要有可能的話都會盡量安排相關的這個會面那我想先請教部長就是在明天的這個峰會正式登場之前我們的代表團是否有機會可以順利安排到雙邊的會議那或是有其他非正式的這個會面的機會\n是 在就是領袖代表方面當然已經有跟一些國家這個討論之後有安排那因為這個也涉及到各方的這個考量我們等這個見面之後自然就會跟這個社會來做報告那至於在會場上比較非正式也有很多的機會可以交談\n我們也有跟一些國家也有先溝通非正式的方式所以除了正式的雙邊的會談以外也有非正式的交談\n好 那在這個報導當中我們也看到了我們今年台灣這邊也有積極在爭取能夠參與這個撰稿會議並且預計能夠達成五項的這個文件的發言相信我們在這個會議當中能夠和其他的這個經濟體平等的提出文字的建議那來表達我們台灣的立場並且能夠有機會來參與協商等等\n那在此我還是請教部長是否我們針對這個部分能夠透露的部分我們在什麼樣的這個議題當中有機會可以提出發言並且能夠發揮比較大的一個影響力是 報告委員因為APEC基本上是採取共識決那我們當然有平等參與的權利之外也有一定的影響力\n所以對於今年的主題我們都有準備包括倡議另外就是我們的領袖代表也會有發言所以這個部分就是剛剛講的五大議題方面那因為今年特別重視AI就是數位科技的應用\n那我們也認為台灣在這方面可以貢獻所以也有針對這個提出一個未來這個跟健康照護有關的這個倡議所以我們不只是去參與啦我們也可以在這裡面倡議\n那部長前幾天我們也看到這個川普總統他去訪問日本那並且與這個高市首相互動非常的熱絡那高市首相也表示他們在會談期間確認台海平和平穩定的\n一個重要性那高市首相不但要延續先前友台的一個立場在他上任至今也接連在這個日本東協峰會等重要的國際場合呼籲國際要重視台海的一個和平穩定對此我想請教部長我們在這個APEC期間有沒有這個信心能夠和高市首相安排到這個雙邊會談來討論\n我們與日本之間的這個經濟安全合作的可能有 我們在安排中好那不管是這個川習會還是這個APEC會議後續的發展我們還是希望說我們這個外交部這邊能夠緊密的來掌握相關的訊息那後續我們如果有新的訊息再和部長來做一個討論好那部長您先請為那接續我們邀請這個省副主委\n副主委早副委員早就這個中共的資訊戰還有宣傳戰來請教我們副主委我們陸委會在這個報告當中提到中方需要藉由這個川習會來經營美中的關係原判中方將與這個川習會重申對台的一個立場並且藉機加大對台宣傳的一個操作\n我們在這個近期也看到這個有一連串的一個公式包括中國的一個三個八十週那也設立了一個台灣光復紀念日那王滬寧在談話當中也提到統一後有七個更好那還有一個是新華社署名中台文的一個作者連續發表這個促統的相關文章\n他們不斷的堆疊出這麼多打擊台灣的言論或是在這個十五五的這個規劃建議當中提出要打擊這個台獨牢牢把握這個兩岸的一個關係他想要主導這個想要這個主導權那我想請教這個副主委就是對於中共在這個川習會前密集對台的一個文攻我們這邊有沒有觀察到\n和中共敘事相同的一個異常帳號有在增加的一個現象另外這個川習會還有APEC會議之後中方會不會有更多的這個以美論或是棄台論的一個操作還是會持續觸統或是打擊台獨作為他們主要的一個宣傳 有沒有可能\n是 非常謝謝委員的指教那首先您剛提到的就是關於在網路上面有沒有出現異常帳號來進一步的來去渲染相關的這個以美論 棄台論那麼我們會跟這個國安單位特別是國安會還有國安局這邊來密切的在輿情上面來去做關注那這邊跟委員報告確實是有異常的這個現象\n那我們也關注到他們也開始在利用一些比如說美國比較親中的一些學者啦智庫啦等等去散播一些似是而非的言論然後中方再去擴大這樣子的言論的一個渲染等於就是說利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的這個東西利用美國親中的學者\n那我們也有關注到像這樣子的這個現象在過往也譬如說在那個Foreign Affairs還有最近大家有關注到Times的這一篇那麼在網路上面來說確實都有一些異常的這個帳號然後會刻意的來加大渲染那渲染的主題大概還包含了像是剛剛您所提到的像以美論棄台論等等然後並且會框稱說你看在川習會的時候已經談到了所謂的這個兩岸同屬一中啦或者是不支持台獨啦但事實上這個有可能只是在會談的過程中\n習近平提出來但是川普可能不見得會有表態或者是表達不同意但他們可能就會利用這樣子的一個這個去頭去尾的這樣子的方式然後來來進行一個輿論的這個渲染所以我們也會針對這樣的這個情況因為待會就要舉行川習會會不會真的有這樣子這個情形我們都會加以密注好\n那另外就想針對這個宗教統戰的部分來就叫我們副主委中共滲透我國的這個宗教活動已經行之有年但是在民間這個研究團體團隊指出在去年大概有一萬六千人附中參與這個宗教交流的一個活動那其中有超過一半都是在這個福建省來舉行了\n那我們陸委會也認為這個隱藏的黑數應該遠遠不止這些那我想請教副主委我們觀察到近期中共對於宗教統戰他的做法是怎麼樣那會有什麼樣的一個特徵或是論述\n我們是否能夠有什麼方式來反制是 非常謝謝委員的這個指教那首先就是宗教統戰確實是我們不斷來提醒國人應該要注意到的那我們首先還是要表達政府的立場健康有序的各樣的這個交流我們都會予以尊重並且予以鼓勵\n那在宗教統戰在宗教交流的這一塊來講我們認為如果雙方是針對宗教的教義的延期或者是針對以鬼的這樣子的一種交流的話我們基本上都是非常的鼓勵而且會協助主動協助給予協助但比較遺憾的是我們看到在雙方進行宗教交流的時候往往\n中方就會放進了一些統戰的元素比如說他會特別去強調這個所謂的兩岸同屬一中啦把媽祖形容為所謂的中國神啦用這樣的這個方式那甚至是去渲染這個包含像是到中國去進行宗教交流就是回家然後兩岸同屬一中兩岸同跟同源\n這樣子的一些輿論跟這樣子的一種敘述都會在宗教交流的過程中不斷的出現都會不斷的這個出現彷彿是要來進行一種輿論上面的一種洗腦那我們近期還關注到特別的有趣的這個現象也跟委員做一個分享那我們也發現宗教交流以外\n那他們甚至會開始來擴張一些所謂的產業鏈譬如說在重要的這個宗教的景點啦他們就會來開始有一些這個文旅啦觀光的這樣子的套裝行程喔那在這個套裝行程的過程中甚至也是會夾雜的一些去宣傳中國好棒棒啦或者紅色產業供應鏈等等的這樣子的一些敘事喔更甚至於有趣的來囉\n他甚至會在進行宗教交流的過程中邀請我們的年輕人去然後來嘗試來進行因緣配對是這非常的妙進行因緣配對那做這樣子的一種可能要透過心靈融合啦或者是來進行一種人緣上面的這樣子的一種統戰的作為這個我們都會後續都會持續的祕訣\n好 那中國這個國家宗教事務局在上個月他公布一個宗教教職人員網路行為規範那在最後他還聲稱台灣的宗教教職人員也參照本這個規範來執行那我想請教就像這種片面納管我國宗教教職人員的做法是不是也一樣隱含著帶有這個長臂管轄的一個企圖他實際上\n的這個效果又是什麼這部分副主委是不是簡單說明一下是 謝謝 謝謝委員那確實剛剛您所提到這個長臂管轄用法律這也是我們今天沈伯陽委員現在也到了就是類似的這樣子的一個情況的一樣的這個來進行各式各樣的這個操作在宗教也不放過\n那我們有特別注意到9月15號公布的這個宗教教職人員網絡行為規範裡面喔那在第二條的地方有提到宗教的網絡行為要接受政府監管要接受政府監管還有社會監管這是非常誇張的事情啦齁那另外第九條裡面甚至還提到了說不能進行民族分裂不能進行民族分裂所以我們會在這個議題上面來講會特別的提醒喔國人在宗教交流的過程中應該還是要注意人身安全然後避免\n会涉入到这个人生的这个风险来进行国人的这个提醒跟提示那另外针对反制的这个部分来讲的话我们也会特别提醒这个中方那么如果滥加的利用宗教交流来睡醒统战的话那么未来他们到台湾来进行宗教交流的话我们大概也会有相对应的一些这个管理跟作为比如说我们也会要求他们的行程必须要相对的这个单纯或者是他们的团体的成员如果里面有涉及到台办系统\n統戰系統的話而不是宗教人員的話那麼像這樣子的情況我們也會特別的來予以提醒不應該有這樣的情況的這個出現好 我們台灣的這個民間信仰這個文化盛行那政府在這個處理上的尺度應該要小心拿捏\n在合理的這個適度情況之下同時能夠防範中共的這種假交流 真統戰的這個目的對於相關審核的機制我們更加精進的話這部分我要請我們陸委會能夠持續關心那也避免這個中共對我長臂管轄的手段的一個操作好 以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.438 --> 00:26.812\n好謝謝趙偉我們有請佳榮部長好林部長請部長早委員長部長我們這幾天大家都在關心這個川習會那後續的這個APEC會議發展的走向我們代表團在本週二28號已經提前三天抵達韓國了那也比\n\n00:27.492 --> 00:54.241\n以往更早那相對來說我們也爭取更多的時間依照我們代表團所透露只要有可能的話都會盡量安排相關的這個會面那我想先請教部長就是在明天的這個峰會正式登場之前我們的代表團是否有機會可以順利安排到雙邊的會議那或是有其他非正式的這個會面的機會\n\n00:55.416 --> 01:22.494\n是在就是領袖代表方面當然已經有跟一些國家這個討論之後有安排那因為這個也涉及到各方的這個考量我們等這個見面之後自然就會跟這個社會來做報告那至於在會場上比較非正式也有很多的機會可以交談\n\n01:24.555 --> 01:36.680\n我們也有跟一些國家也有先溝通非正式的方式所以除了正式的雙邊的會談以外也有非正式的交談\n\n01:38.336 --> 02:04.747\n好那在這個報導當中我們也看到了我們今年台灣這邊也有積極在爭取能夠參與這個撰稿會議並且預計能夠達成五項的這個文件的發言相信我們在這個會議當中能夠和其他的這個經濟體平等的提出文字的建議那來表達我們台灣的立場並且能夠有機會來參與協商等等\n\n02:07.108 --> 02:30.126\n那在此我還是請教部長是否我們針對這個部分能夠透露的部分我們在什麼樣的這個議題當中有機會可以提出發言並且能夠發揮比較大的一個影響力是報告委員因為APEC基本上是採取共識決那我們當然有平等參與的權利之外也有一定的影響力\n\n02:31.227 --> 02:36.432\n所以對於今年的主題我們都有準備包括倡議另外就是我們的領袖代表也會有發言所以這個部分就是剛剛講的五大議題方面那因為今年特別重視AI就是數位科技的應用\n\n02:50.706 --> 02:53.549\n那我們也認為台灣在這方面可以貢獻所以也有針對這個提出一個未來這個跟健康照護有關的這個倡議所以我們不只是去參與啦我們也可以在這裡面倡議\n\n03:10.973 --> 03:27.518\n那部長前幾天我們也看到這個川普總統他去訪問日本那並且與這個高市首相互動非常的熱絡那高市首相也表示他們在會談期間確認台海平和平穩定的\n\n03:27.958 --> 03:51.258\n一個重要性那高市首相不但要延續先前友台的一個立場在他上任至今也接連在這個日本東協峰會等重要的國際場合呼籲國際要重視台海的一個和平穩定對此我想請教部長我們在這個APEC期間有沒有這個信心能夠和高市首相安排到這個雙邊會談來討論\n\n03:54.520 --> 04:23.278\n我們與日本之間的這個經濟安全合作的可能有我們在安排中好那不管是這個川習會還是這個APEC會議後續的發展我們還是希望說我們這個外交部這邊能夠緊密的來掌握相關的訊息那後續我們如果有新的訊息再和部長來做一個討論好那部長您先請為那接續我們邀請這個省副主委\n\n04:32.358 --> 04:56.620\n副主委早副委員早就這個中共的資訊戰還有宣傳戰來請教我們副主委我們陸委會在這個報告當中提到中方需要藉由這個川習會來經營美中的關係原判中方將與這個川習會重申對台的一個立場並且藉機加大對台宣傳的一個操作\n\n04:58.510 --> 05:26.514\n我們在這個近期也看到這個有一連串的一個公式包括中國的一個三個八十週那也設立了一個台灣光復紀念日那王滬寧在談話當中也提到統一後有七個更好那還有一個是新華社署名中台文的一個作者連續發表這個促統的相關文章\n\n05:27.657 --> 05:54.534\n他們不斷的堆疊出這麼多打擊台灣的言論或是在這個十五五的這個規劃建議當中提出要打擊這個台獨牢牢把握這個兩岸的一個關係他想要主導這個想要這個主導權那我想請教這個副主委就是對於中共在這個川習會前密集對台的一個文攻我們這邊有沒有觀察到\n\n05:55.434 --> 06:16.341\n和中共敘事相同的一個異常帳號有在增加的一個現象另外這個川習會還有APEC會議之後中方會不會有更多的這個以美論或是棄台論的一個操作還是會持續觸統或是打擊台獨作為他們主要的一個宣傳有沒有可能\n\n06:16.841 --> 06:36.061\n是非常謝謝委員的指教那首先您剛提到的就是關於在網路上面有沒有出現異常帳號來進一步的來去渲染相關的這個以美論棄台論那麼我們會跟這個國安單位特別是國安會還有國安局這邊來密切的在輿情上面來去做關注那這邊跟委員報告確實是有異常的這個現象\n\n06:37.102 --> 06:54.613\n那我們也關注到他們也開始在利用一些比如說美國比較親中的一些學者啦智庫啦等等去散播一些似是而非的言論然後中方再去擴大這樣子的言論的一個渲染等於就是說利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的這個東西利用美國親中的學者\n\n06:55.353 --> 07:23.692\n那我們也有關注到像這樣子的這個現象在過往也譬如說在那個ForeignAffairs還有最近大家有關注到Times的這一篇那麼在網路上面來說確實都有一些異常的這個帳號然後會刻意的來加大渲染那渲染的主題大概還包含了像是剛剛您所提到的像以美論棄台論等等然後並且會框稱說你看在川習會的時候已經談到了所謂的這個兩岸同屬一中啦或者是不支持台獨啦但事實上這個有可能只是在會談的過程中\n\n07:25.874 --> 07:43.225\n習近平提出來但是川普可能不見得會有表態或者是表達不同意但他們可能就會利用這樣子的一個這個去頭去尾的這樣子的方式然後來來進行一個輿論的這個渲染所以我們也會針對這樣的這個情況因為待會就要舉行川習會會不會真的有這樣子這個情形我們都會加以密注好\n\n07:44.042 --> 08:09.048\n那另外就想針對這個宗教統戰的部分來就叫我們副主委中共滲透我國的這個宗教活動已經行之有年但是在民間這個研究團體團隊指出在去年大概有一萬六千人附中參與這個宗教交流的一個活動那其中有超過一半都是在這個福建省來舉行了\n\n08:10.208 --> 08:25.423\n那我們陸委會也認為這個隱藏的黑數應該遠遠不止這些那我想請教副主委我們觀察到近期中共對於宗教統戰他的做法是怎麼樣那會有什麼樣的一個特徵或是論述\n\n08:26.264 --> 08:43.609\n我們是否能夠有什麼方式來反制是非常謝謝委員的這個指教那首先就是宗教統戰確實是我們不斷來提醒國人應該要注意到的那我們首先還是要表達政府的立場健康有序的各樣的這個交流我們都會予以尊重並且予以鼓勵\n\n08:44.409 --> 09:02.256\n那在宗教統戰在宗教交流的這一塊來講我們認為如果雙方是針對宗教的教義的延期或者是針對以鬼的這樣子的一種交流的話我們基本上都是非常的鼓勵而且會協助主動協助給予協助但比較遺憾的是我們看到在雙方進行宗教交流的時候往往\n\n09:02.836 --> 09:20.944\n中方就會放進了一些統戰的元素比如說他會特別去強調這個所謂的兩岸同屬一中啦把媽祖形容為所謂的中國神啦用這樣的這個方式那甚至是去渲染這個包含像是到中國去進行宗教交流就是回家然後兩岸同屬一中兩岸同跟同源\n\n09:21.864 --> 09:37.757\n這樣子的一些輿論跟這樣子的一種敘述都會在宗教交流的過程中不斷的出現都會不斷的這個出現彷彿是要來進行一種輿論上面的一種洗腦那我們近期還關注到特別的有趣的這個現象也跟委員做一個分享那我們也發現宗教交流以外\n\n09:38.237 --> 09:58.520\n那他們甚至會開始來擴張一些所謂的產業鏈譬如說在重要的這個宗教的景點啦他們就會來開始有一些這個文旅啦觀光的這樣子的套裝行程喔那在這個套裝行程的過程中甚至也是會夾雜的一些去宣傳中國好棒棒啦或者紅色產業供應鏈等等的這樣子的一些敘事喔更甚至於有趣的來囉\n\n09:59.141 --> 10:15.698\n他甚至會在進行宗教交流的過程中邀請我們的年輕人去然後來嘗試來進行因緣配對是這非常的妙進行因緣配對那做這樣子的一種可能要透過心靈融合啦或者是來進行一種人緣上面的這樣子的一種統戰的作為這個我們都會後續都會持續的祕訣\n\n10:17.059 --> 10:42.032\n好那中國這個國家宗教事務局在上個月他公布一個宗教教職人員網路行為規範那在最後他還聲稱台灣的宗教教職人員也參照本這個規範來執行那我想請教就像這種片面納管我國宗教教職人員的做法是不是也一樣隱含著帶有這個長臂管轄的一個企圖他實際上\n\n10:43.573 --> 11:00.060\n的這個效果又是什麼這部分副主委是不是簡單說明一下是謝謝謝謝委員那確實剛剛您所提到這個長臂管轄用法律這也是我們今天沈伯陽委員現在也到了就是類似的這樣子的一個情況的一樣的這個來進行各式各樣的這個操作在宗教也不放過\n\n11:00.740 --> 11:27.183\n那我們有特別注意到9月15號公布的這個宗教教職人員網絡行為規範裡面喔那在第二條的地方有提到宗教的網絡行為要接受政府監管要接受政府監管還有社會監管這是非常誇張的事情啦齁那另外第九條裡面甚至還提到了說不能進行民族分裂不能進行民族分裂所以我們會在這個議題上面來講會特別的提醒喔國人在宗教交流的過程中應該還是要注意人身安全然後避免\n\n11:28.163 --> 11:56.363\n会涉入到这个人生的这个风险来进行国人的这个提醒跟提示那另外针对反制的这个部分来讲的话我们也会特别提醒这个中方那么如果滥加的利用宗教交流来睡醒统战的话那么未来他们到台湾来进行宗教交流的话我们大概也会有相对应的一些这个管理跟作为比如说我们也会要求他们的行程必须要相对的这个单纯或者是他们的团体的成员如果里面有涉及到台办系统\n\n11:57.223 --> 12:12.158\n統戰系統的話而不是宗教人員的話那麼像這樣子的情況我們也會特別的來予以提醒不應該有這樣的情況的這個出現好我們台灣的這個民間信仰這個文化盛行那政府在這個處理上的尺度應該要小心拿捏\n\n12:12.919 --> 12:33.552\n在合理的這個適度情況之下同時能夠防範中共的這種假交流真統戰的這個目的對於相關審核的機制我們更加精進的話這部分我要請我們陸委會能夠持續關心那也避免這個中共對我長臂管轄的手段的一個操作好以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.438,"end":26.812,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 我們有請佳榮部長好 林部長請部長早委員長部長 我們這幾天大家都在關心這個川習會那後續的這個APEC會議發展的走向我們代表團在本週二28號已經提前三天抵達韓國了那也比"},{"start":27.492,"end":54.241,"text":"以往更早那相對來說我們也爭取更多的時間依照我們代表團所透露只要有可能的話都會盡量安排相關的這個會面那我想先請教部長就是在明天的這個峰會正式登場之前我們的代表團是否有機會可以順利安排到雙邊的會議那或是有其他非正式的這個會面的機會"},{"start":55.416,"end":82.494,"text":"是 在就是領袖代表方面當然已經有跟一些國家這個討論之後有安排那因為這個也涉及到各方的這個考量我們等這個見面之後自然就會跟這個社會來做報告那至於在會場上比較非正式也有很多的機會可以交談"},{"start":84.555,"end":96.68,"text":"我們也有跟一些國家也有先溝通非正式的方式所以除了正式的雙邊的會談以外也有非正式的交談"},{"start":98.336,"end":124.747,"text":"好 那在這個報導當中我們也看到了我們今年台灣這邊也有積極在爭取能夠參與這個撰稿會議並且預計能夠達成五項的這個文件的發言相信我們在這個會議當中能夠和其他的這個經濟體平等的提出文字的建議那來表達我們台灣的立場並且能夠有機會來參與協商等等"},{"start":127.108,"end":150.126,"text":"那在此我還是請教部長是否我們針對這個部分能夠透露的部分我們在什麼樣的這個議題當中有機會可以提出發言並且能夠發揮比較大的一個影響力是 報告委員因為APEC基本上是採取共識決那我們當然有平等參與的權利之外也有一定的影響力"},{"start":151.227,"end":156.432,"text":"所以對於今年的主題我們都有準備包括倡議另外就是我們的領袖代表也會有發言所以這個部分就是剛剛講的五大議題方面那因為今年特別重視AI就是數位科技的應用"},{"start":170.706,"end":173.549,"text":"那我們也認為台灣在這方面可以貢獻所以也有針對這個提出一個未來這個跟健康照護有關的這個倡議所以我們不只是去參與啦我們也可以在這裡面倡議"},{"start":190.973,"end":207.518,"text":"那部長前幾天我們也看到這個川普總統他去訪問日本那並且與這個高市首相互動非常的熱絡那高市首相也表示他們在會談期間確認台海平和平穩定的"},{"start":207.958,"end":231.258,"text":"一個重要性那高市首相不但要延續先前友台的一個立場在他上任至今也接連在這個日本東協峰會等重要的國際場合呼籲國際要重視台海的一個和平穩定對此我想請教部長我們在這個APEC期間有沒有這個信心能夠和高市首相安排到這個雙邊會談來討論"},{"start":234.52,"end":263.278,"text":"我們與日本之間的這個經濟安全合作的可能有 我們在安排中好那不管是這個川習會還是這個APEC會議後續的發展我們還是希望說我們這個外交部這邊能夠緊密的來掌握相關的訊息那後續我們如果有新的訊息再和部長來做一個討論好那部長您先請為那接續我們邀請這個省副主委"},{"start":272.358,"end":296.62,"text":"副主委早副委員早就這個中共的資訊戰還有宣傳戰來請教我們副主委我們陸委會在這個報告當中提到中方需要藉由這個川習會來經營美中的關係原判中方將與這個川習會重申對台的一個立場並且藉機加大對台宣傳的一個操作"},{"start":298.51,"end":326.514,"text":"我們在這個近期也看到這個有一連串的一個公式包括中國的一個三個八十週那也設立了一個台灣光復紀念日那王滬寧在談話當中也提到統一後有七個更好那還有一個是新華社署名中台文的一個作者連續發表這個促統的相關文章"},{"start":327.657,"end":354.534,"text":"他們不斷的堆疊出這麼多打擊台灣的言論或是在這個十五五的這個規劃建議當中提出要打擊這個台獨牢牢把握這個兩岸的一個關係他想要主導這個想要這個主導權那我想請教這個副主委就是對於中共在這個川習會前密集對台的一個文攻我們這邊有沒有觀察到"},{"start":355.434,"end":376.341,"text":"和中共敘事相同的一個異常帳號有在增加的一個現象另外這個川習會還有APEC會議之後中方會不會有更多的這個以美論或是棄台論的一個操作還是會持續觸統或是打擊台獨作為他們主要的一個宣傳 有沒有可能"},{"start":376.841,"end":396.061,"text":"是 非常謝謝委員的指教那首先您剛提到的就是關於在網路上面有沒有出現異常帳號來進一步的來去渲染相關的這個以美論 棄台論那麼我們會跟這個國安單位特別是國安會還有國安局這邊來密切的在輿情上面來去做關注那這邊跟委員報告確實是有異常的這個現象"},{"start":397.102,"end":414.613,"text":"那我們也關注到他們也開始在利用一些比如說美國比較親中的一些學者啦智庫啦等等去散播一些似是而非的言論然後中方再去擴大這樣子的言論的一個渲染等於就是說利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的這個東西利用美國親中的學者"},{"start":415.353,"end":443.692,"text":"那我們也有關注到像這樣子的這個現象在過往也譬如說在那個Foreign Affairs還有最近大家有關注到Times的這一篇那麼在網路上面來說確實都有一些異常的這個帳號然後會刻意的來加大渲染那渲染的主題大概還包含了像是剛剛您所提到的像以美論棄台論等等然後並且會框稱說你看在川習會的時候已經談到了所謂的這個兩岸同屬一中啦或者是不支持台獨啦但事實上這個有可能只是在會談的過程中"},{"start":445.874,"end":463.225,"text":"習近平提出來但是川普可能不見得會有表態或者是表達不同意但他們可能就會利用這樣子的一個這個去頭去尾的這樣子的方式然後來來進行一個輿論的這個渲染所以我們也會針對這樣的這個情況因為待會就要舉行川習會會不會真的有這樣子這個情形我們都會加以密注好"},{"start":464.042,"end":489.048,"text":"那另外就想針對這個宗教統戰的部分來就叫我們副主委中共滲透我國的這個宗教活動已經行之有年但是在民間這個研究團體團隊指出在去年大概有一萬六千人附中參與這個宗教交流的一個活動那其中有超過一半都是在這個福建省來舉行了"},{"start":490.208,"end":505.423,"text":"那我們陸委會也認為這個隱藏的黑數應該遠遠不止這些那我想請教副主委我們觀察到近期中共對於宗教統戰他的做法是怎麼樣那會有什麼樣的一個特徵或是論述"},{"start":506.264,"end":523.609,"text":"我們是否能夠有什麼方式來反制是 非常謝謝委員的這個指教那首先就是宗教統戰確實是我們不斷來提醒國人應該要注意到的那我們首先還是要表達政府的立場健康有序的各樣的這個交流我們都會予以尊重並且予以鼓勵"},{"start":524.409,"end":542.256,"text":"那在宗教統戰在宗教交流的這一塊來講我們認為如果雙方是針對宗教的教義的延期或者是針對以鬼的這樣子的一種交流的話我們基本上都是非常的鼓勵而且會協助主動協助給予協助但比較遺憾的是我們看到在雙方進行宗教交流的時候往往"},{"start":542.836,"end":560.944,"text":"中方就會放進了一些統戰的元素比如說他會特別去強調這個所謂的兩岸同屬一中啦把媽祖形容為所謂的中國神啦用這樣的這個方式那甚至是去渲染這個包含像是到中國去進行宗教交流就是回家然後兩岸同屬一中兩岸同跟同源"},{"start":561.864,"end":577.757,"text":"這樣子的一些輿論跟這樣子的一種敘述都會在宗教交流的過程中不斷的出現都會不斷的這個出現彷彿是要來進行一種輿論上面的一種洗腦那我們近期還關注到特別的有趣的這個現象也跟委員做一個分享那我們也發現宗教交流以外"},{"start":578.237,"end":598.52,"text":"那他們甚至會開始來擴張一些所謂的產業鏈譬如說在重要的這個宗教的景點啦他們就會來開始有一些這個文旅啦觀光的這樣子的套裝行程喔那在這個套裝行程的過程中甚至也是會夾雜的一些去宣傳中國好棒棒啦或者紅色產業供應鏈等等的這樣子的一些敘事喔更甚至於有趣的來囉"},{"start":599.141,"end":615.698,"text":"他甚至會在進行宗教交流的過程中邀請我們的年輕人去然後來嘗試來進行因緣配對是這非常的妙進行因緣配對那做這樣子的一種可能要透過心靈融合啦或者是來進行一種人緣上面的這樣子的一種統戰的作為這個我們都會後續都會持續的祕訣"},{"start":617.059,"end":642.032,"text":"好 那中國這個國家宗教事務局在上個月他公布一個宗教教職人員網路行為規範那在最後他還聲稱台灣的宗教教職人員也參照本這個規範來執行那我想請教就像這種片面納管我國宗教教職人員的做法是不是也一樣隱含著帶有這個長臂管轄的一個企圖他實際上"},{"start":643.573,"end":660.06,"text":"的這個效果又是什麼這部分副主委是不是簡單說明一下是 謝謝 謝謝委員那確實剛剛您所提到這個長臂管轄用法律這也是我們今天沈伯陽委員現在也到了就是類似的這樣子的一個情況的一樣的這個來進行各式各樣的這個操作在宗教也不放過"},{"start":660.74,"end":687.183,"text":"那我們有特別注意到9月15號公布的這個宗教教職人員網絡行為規範裡面喔那在第二條的地方有提到宗教的網絡行為要接受政府監管要接受政府監管還有社會監管這是非常誇張的事情啦齁那另外第九條裡面甚至還提到了說不能進行民族分裂不能進行民族分裂所以我們會在這個議題上面來講會特別的提醒喔國人在宗教交流的過程中應該還是要注意人身安全然後避免"},{"start":688.163,"end":716.363,"text":"会涉入到这个人生的这个风险来进行国人的这个提醒跟提示那另外针对反制的这个部分来讲的话我们也会特别提醒这个中方那么如果滥加的利用宗教交流来睡醒统战的话那么未来他们到台湾来进行宗教交流的话我们大概也会有相对应的一些这个管理跟作为比如说我们也会要求他们的行程必须要相对的这个单纯或者是他们的团体的成员如果里面有涉及到台办系统"},{"start":717.223,"end":732.158,"text":"統戰系統的話而不是宗教人員的話那麼像這樣子的情況我們也會特別的來予以提醒不應該有這樣的情況的這個出現好 我們台灣的這個民間信仰這個文化盛行那政府在這個處理上的尺度應該要小心拿捏"},{"start":732.919,"end":753.552,"text":"在合理的這個適度情況之下同時能夠防範中共的這種假交流 真統戰的這個目的對於相關審核的機制我們更加精進的話這部分我要請我們陸委會能夠持續關心那也避免這個中共對我長臂管轄的手段的一個操作好 以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":239,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時57分）謝謝召委。我們有請佳龍部長。"],["主席：好，林部長請。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長早。"],["林部長佳龍：委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長，這幾天大家都在關心川習會，後續APEC會議發展的走向，我們代表團在本週二（28號）已經提前3天抵達韓國了，也比以往更早，相對來說，我們也爭取更多的時間，依照我們代表團所透露，只要有可能的話都會儘量安排相關的會面。我想先請教部長，在明天的峰會正式登場之前，我們代表團是否有機會可以順利安排到雙邊會議？或是有其它非正式的會面機會？"],["林部長佳龍：是，在領袖代表方面，當然跟一些國家討論之後有安排，因為這也涉及到各方的考量，我們等見面之後自然就會跟國人報告，至於在會場上比較非正式也有很多的機會可以交談，我們跟一些國家也有先以非正式的方式溝通，所以除了正式的、雙邊的會談以外，也有非正式的交談。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，在這個報導當中，我們也看到今年台灣有積極爭取能夠參與撰稿會議，並且預計能夠達成5項文件發言，相信我們在這個會議當中，能夠和其它經濟體平等提出文字建議來表達台灣的立場，並且能夠有機會參與協商等等。在此，我還是請教部長，針對能夠透露的部分，我們在什麼樣的議題當中有機會可以提出發言，並且能夠發揮比較大的影響力？"],["林部長佳龍：是，報告委員，因為APEC基本上是採取共識決，我們當然有平等參與的權利之外，也有一定的影響力，至於今年的主題也都有準備，包括倡議在內。另外，領袖代表也會發言，這部分就是剛剛講的五大議題。因為今年特別重視AI，就是數位科技的應用，我們認為台灣在這方面可以貢獻，並針對這點提出與健康照護有關的倡議，所以我們不只參與，也可以倡議。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長，日前川普總統訪問日本，與高市首相互動非常熱絡。高市首相表示，他們在會談期間確認了台海和平穩定的重要性。高市首相不但延續先前友台的立場，從他上任至今，接連在日本東協峰會等重要國際場合呼籲國際重視台海的和平穩定。對此，我想請教部長，有沒有信心能在APEC期間安排與高市首相進行雙邊會談，討論與日本之間的經濟安全合作可能？"],["林部長佳龍：有，我們在安排中。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。不管是川習會或APEC會議，後續的發展，希望外交部能緊密掌握相關訊息，後續如果有新的訊息，屆時再和部長做討論。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長您先請回。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["陳委員俊宇：接續邀請沈副主委。","副主委早。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：本席就中共的資訊戰及宣傳戰請教副主委。陸委會在報告中提到，中方需要藉由川習會來經營美中關係，研判中方將於川習會重申對台立場，並藉機加大對台的宣傳操作。我們近期也看到一連串的攻勢，包括中國在三個八十週年設立了台灣光復紀念日；王滬寧在談話當中提到，統一後有七個更好；還有，新華社一位署名鍾台文的作者連續發表促統的相關文章。他們不斷堆疊出這麼多打擊台灣的言論，或是在十五五規劃建議提出打擊台獨，牢牢把握兩岸關係，亦即想要主導權。我想請教副主委，對於中共在川習會前密集對台文攻，陸委會有沒有觀察到與中共敘事相同的異常帳號有增加現象？另外，在川習會及APEC會議之後，中方會不會有更多的疑美論或棄臺論的操作？抑或會持續以促統、打擊台獨，作為他們主要的宣傳？有沒有可能？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：非常謝謝委員的指教。首先，您剛剛提到在網路上有沒有出現異常帳號，並進一步渲染疑美論、棄臺論？對此，我們會跟國安單位，特別是國安會及國安局密切關注輿情。在此跟委員報告，確實有異常現象！我們關注到他們也開始利用美國一些比較親中的學者、智庫等等，散播一些似是而非的言論，然後中方再去擴大這樣的言論與渲染，等於利用美國人的嘴來說出中國人想要的東西，利用美國親中的學者。我們有關注到過去類似這樣的現象，比如Foreign Affairs，還有最近大家有關注到Times的一篇文章。就網路上來說，確實有一些異常帳號會刻意加大渲染。至於渲染的主題，大概包含了您剛剛所提到的疑美論、棄臺論等等，並誆稱川習會已經談到兩岸同屬一中，或不支持台獨。事實上，這可能只是在會談過程中習近平提出來的，但川普不見得會表態，或表達不同意。他們可能會利用這樣去頭去尾的方式進行輿論的渲染，所以我們會針對這樣的情況……因為待會兒就要舉行川習會，會不會真的有這樣子的情形出現？我們會加以密注。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外，針對宗教統戰來就教副主委。中共滲透我國的宗教活動已經行之有年，民間研究團體指出，去年大概有一萬六千人赴中參與宗教交流活動，其中超過一半都在福建省舉行，不過陸委會認為隱藏的黑數應該遠遠不只這些。我想請教副主委，是否觀察到近期中共對於宗教統戰的作法為何？有什麼樣的特徵或論述？我們能以何種方式來反制？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：非常謝謝委員的指教。首先是宗教統戰，這確實是我們不斷提醒國人應該要注意的。在此，我還是要先表達政府的立場，針對健康、有序的各樣交流，我們都會予以尊重並予以鼓勵。就宗教交流這塊來說，我們認為如果雙方是針對宗教教義的研析，或針對儀軌的交流，我們基本上都非常鼓勵，而且會主動給予協助。比較遺憾的是，我們看到雙方在進行宗教交流時，往往中方就會放進一些統戰元素！譬如會特別強調兩岸同屬一中，把媽祖形容為中國神，用這樣的方式。甚至渲染，像是到中國進行宗教交流就是回家，然後兩岸同屬一中，兩岸同根同源這類的輿論與敘述，都會在宗教交流的過程中不斷出現，彷彿要進行輿論上的洗腦。近期我們還關注到一個特別有趣的現象，在此與委員分享。我們發現除了宗教交流以外，他們甚至會開始擴張一些產業鏈，譬如在重要的宗教景點，他們就會開始有一些文旅、觀光的套裝行程。而在套裝行程過程中，也夾雜了一些宣傳，諸如中國好棒棒或者紅色產業供應鏈等等的敘事。更有趣的來了，現在甚至會在進行宗教交流過程中，邀請我們的年輕人去，然後嘗試進行姻緣配對，這實在非常妙，進行姻緣配對，可能是想透過心靈融合，或者進行人員上的統戰作為，這些我們後續都會持續密注。"],["陳委員俊宇：中國的國家宗教事務局在上個月公布了宗教教職人員網路行為規範，最後還聲稱台灣的宗教教職人員也參照本規範來執行。我想請教，這種片面納管我國宗教教職人員的作法，是不是也隱含並帶有長臂管轄的企圖？實際上的效果又是什麼？這部分是不是請副主委簡單說明一下？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：謝謝委員。確實，剛剛您所提到以法律來長臂管轄，沈伯洋委員現在到場了，這是類似的情況，一樣在進行各式各樣的操作，甚至連宗教也不放過。我們有特別注意到9月15號公布的宗教教職人員網絡行為規範第二條提到，宗教的網絡行為要接受政府監管，還有社會監管，這是非常誇張的事情！另外第九條甚至提到不能進行民族分裂，所以就這議題我們要特別提醒國人，在宗教交流過程中，應該還是要注意人身安全，避免涉入人身風險，我們以此來提醒並提示國人。針對反制這部分來說，我們要特別提醒中方，如果濫加利用宗教交流來遂行統戰的話，未來他們到台灣來進行宗教交流，我們大概也會有相對應的管理跟作為，比如要求他們的行程必須要相對單純，或其團體成員若涉及台辦系統、統戰系統，而非宗教人員的話，對這種情況我們也會特別予以提醒，不應該有這樣的情況出現。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。台灣的民間信仰文化盛行，政府在處理的尺度上應該小心拿捏。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：是、是。"],["陳委員俊宇：在合理適度情況之下，要同時能夠防範中共假交流真統戰的目的，對於相關審核機制要更加精進，這部分我要請陸委會持續關心，也避免中共對我長臂管轄的手段操作。以上，謝謝。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：好，謝謝。"],["主席（沈委員伯洋代）：謝謝副主委，謝謝陳俊宇委員。","接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","賴士葆","范雲","邱志偉","陳永康","林憶君","黃捷","黃仁","牛煦庭"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部、經濟部、大陸委員會報告「我國參與2025年度『亞太經濟合作（APEC）經濟領\n袖會議』的任務及目標」，並備質詢；二、邀請國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會、法務部、法\n務部調查局報告「中共對台進行長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓及我國相關應處」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00010"}}}