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10:14:06","影片長度":"00:16:44","會議時間":"2025-10-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部、財政部、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署就「如何精進海外小型包裹夾帶肉品之查緝與防堵，持續強化阻絕疫情於國門，同時優化國內後續對於非洲豬瘟防疫」提出專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員李昆澤等27人、委員黃秀芳等21人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」、委員范雲等18人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」、委員沈發惠等18人、委員王育敏等19人、委員王育敏等25人擬、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」、委員郭昱晴等17人、委員羅廷瑋等18人分別擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n（一）委員王正旭等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修草案」案。\n（四）委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條修正草案」案。\n（五）委員林淑芬等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【二、(三)至(七)案，如經復議則不予審查；二、(八)至(十)案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】\n【逐條討論】\n【10月29日及10月30日，二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-30","start_time":"2025-10-30T09:57:22+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-30T10:14:06+08:00","duration":1004,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-7"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"164858","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164858","tool":"pyannote","id":"164858-pyannote"},"job_id":"a8JbbJlXGjMpBt1D","queued_at":"2025-10-30 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{\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 309.408, \"end\": 309.488, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 309.488, \"end\": 309.508, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}]}, {\"start\": 311.77, \"end\": 334.501, \"text\": \"那他直接一下飛機之後呢他跟這個寫請的保全表明說我不要豬瘟的檢查然後這個保全呢就直接讓他走旁邊出去了一點刁難都沒有他說他本來擔心會被阻擾所以呢還是先什麼手機開好這個防檢署的梭子結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 311.77, \"end\": 311.95, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 311.95, \"end\": 312.15, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 312.15, \"end\": 312.37, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 312.37, \"end\": 312.51, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 312.51, \"end\": 312.61, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 312.61, \"end\": 313.211, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"飛\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 313.211, \"end\": 313.391, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 313.391, \"end\": 313.631, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 313.631, 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{\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 650.107, \"end\": 650.248, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 650.248, \"end\": 650.388, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 650.388, \"end\": 650.628, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 650.628, \"end\": 650.848, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 650.848, \"end\": 651.008, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 651.008, \"end\": 651.569, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 651.569, \"end\": 651.789, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 651.789, \"end\": 652.049, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 652.049, \"end\": 652.29, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 652.29, \"end\": 653.171, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 653.171, \"end\": 653.691, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 653.691, \"end\": 654.152, \"score\": 0.868}, 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00:01:20,246\n那你的健康币是编在这个深耕台湾计划里面吗不是这个是刚刚提到的那个深耕计划是给相关的这个医院还有诊所区域性的还有这个工会有些工会也得到这个计划所以他们是去做包含这个优化医事人员职业条件包含这个智慧医疗的发展\n\n5\n00:01:20,946 --> 00:01:46,824\n包含人才的培育等等這些所以不包含健康幣嗎不包含行政機關要執行的本席就要就教你你所對外宣布的健康幣明年第一季就要實施但是我們看一下現在的預算不知道你是編在哪一個屬下面因為找不到那之前我們辦公室也有問就說還沒編還沒編明年第一季就要上路\n\n6\n00:01:47,444 --> 00:02:07,570\n跟委員報告是說我們這個健康幣我們主要主管機關做的是那個資訊的這個架構所以不用錢對那以我們以我們本來的科技計畫在執行我們本來就有一些行政的預算在這個你不用新增預算嗎你不是說很好康就是還可以抽腳踏車還有很多的獎沒有\n\n7\n00:02:08,030 --> 00:02:30,362\n那個東西是要跟民間合作的啦所以你意思是健康幣的推動所有的規劃到執行你完全不用新增預算還是在我們本來的預算裡頭去執行那個資訊跟委員報告就是說簡單的講我們會第一個他的那個健康幣的收集是用我們現在的健康存摺\n\n8\n00:02:31,423 --> 00:02:48,800\n去扩充功能所以他等於我們每年都有然後所有的獎項都是廠商捐你們都不用變預算然後我們是跟這個合作第一階段明年是第一階段而已那麼跟業者民間來合作比如說他願意那你明年的第一季預計什麼時候實施\n\n9\n00:02:50,443 --> 00:03:05,159\n现在还在下街当中没有那么快所以计划还不够完整还没有办法完成那你什么时候可以完整本席很想了解你整个健康币的连体之前我们整个的规划就会出来了\n\n10\n00:03:05,359 --> 00:03:28,851\n年底12月嗎那麻煩你這一個整個健康幣的執行的相關的計畫就是要送給這個委員會我們要了解你怎麼執行還有包括你的預算邊緣你剛剛是說不會增加任何新增的計畫因為很快委員會可能就要排預算審查了那你如果沒有這一筆預算的話那你真的就要百分之百去募款了你就沒有這筆錢了\n\n11\n00:03:29,731 --> 00:03:39,278\n我們會來努力用我們本來的預算裡面在科技的部因為這個就是一些科技平台的建立用我們原本的一些預算來所以不新增預算\n\n12\n00:04:01,212 --> 00:04:20,406\n接下來我要問這個防疫的問題今天來的各部會的代表跟那個邊境防疫有關的房檢署還有這個關務署請上台我們可以看到蘇貞昌院長前院長他在非洲豬瘟開始之後呢他其實也發了一篇的臉書\n\n13\n00:04:21,647 --> 00:04:46,086\n那我感覺他是憂心忡忡覺得是不是大家螺絲鬆了所以趕快提醒大家因為他好不容易他當時他最驕傲的政績就是守住把非洲豬瘟擋在境外所以大家都印象深刻這個當時鄰近國家發生非洲豬瘟的時候他跑到他衝到這個陶基然後彪罵了十多分鐘這個我不曉得在座的這個官員有沒有人在現場\n\n14\n00:04:47,267 --> 00:05:09,508\n他就是要求一定要嚴格把關那結果呢現在是邊境破防喔就是讓這一個非洲豬瘟進來了那現在當然就是要檢討就是怎麼樣可以去防堵喔那我給各位看一個網友他PO的這個PO文喔這個是2025年6月23號這個網友呢看起來是個炫耀文他說他從馬來西亞回台灣\n\n15\n00:05:11,770 --> 00:05:34,501\n那他直接一下飛機之後呢他跟這個寫請的保全表明說我不要豬瘟的檢查然後這個保全呢就直接讓他走旁邊出去了一點刁難都沒有他說他本來擔心會被阻擾所以呢還是先什麼手機開好這個防檢署的梭子結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關\n\n16\n00:05:36,282 --> 00:06:03,880\n那他还教大家说下一次从朱温疫区回台湾大家不用当冤大头排队检查手提行李而他引用的是113年12月防检署的副署长徐荣斌受访的时候他说非洲朱温手检站针对高风险国家旅客手检皮包没有强制旅客可以拒绝\n\n17\n00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:28,746\n那這個就是最大的漏洞啊你若從疫區回來的手檢包都不用這個認真檢查然後旅客說我不想被檢查然後就從旁邊出去然後你僱用的就是保全人員你這樣子的一個執行的強度難怪現在非洲豬瘟從邊境就進來了嘛\n\n18\n00:06:30,126 --> 00:06:59,506\n就是這樣子啊我要問各位是那這樣的一個狀況你現在還是這樣子嗎現在非洲諸位已經被發現了就跑到台灣來了你們的邊境還是這麼的鬆散嗎是不是你根本沒有法源沒有強制力所以他的手簡報即使是從這一個高風險疫區回來的只要旅客表明說我不想要被檢查你也沒有法源所以沒有強制力顧的還是只是保全而已是不是這樣\n\n19\n00:07:00,386 --> 00:07:29,245\n報告委員我覺得這個的可能在現實狀況有些文字上或口語上會有扭曲但以現在來講他一定要經過手檢區所以之前就是有鬆動嘛沒有百分之百嘛手檢區一定有分流分流就是說39個非洲疫區的國家他一定強制性是啊馬來西亞是不是馬來西亞是是非洲那他這一個人PO上去他就說他就是馬來西亞回來啊他就不用被手檢了因為他說我不要被手檢了\n\n20\n00:07:30,746 --> 00:07:56,103\n以現在目前來講我覺得這絕對不可能所以回溯這則新聞或者是這一個的報導是不是實在其實還有必要再追查看看有必要再追查你們自己去問你們的房檢署副署長之前這一位徐副署長其實一直都沒有鬆懈其實7年來都沒有鬆懈那這個是怎麼回事這個是真真實實人家PO在網路上面講得非常的具體\n\n21\n00:07:57,083 --> 00:08:13,662\n網路常常有自由的言論那你們去查這是不是假消息因為這個已經不是一個人講了喔那這個就是之前你們根本沒有一個法源的情況底下你又沒有強制執行嘛之前蘇貞昌院長在的時候我知道他非常的嚴格所以是百分之百\n\n22\n00:08:14,443 --> 00:08:28,274\n但你們後來就鬆掉了嘛鬆掉之後就變成這樣的情況嘛就是尊重旅客自由意願他是高風險國家你還尊重他個人意願然後說不想檢查就走而且他引用的就是你們自己官員講的話\n\n23\n00:08:30,055 --> 00:08:45,604\n這個你們要好好檢討那你現在到底有沒有法源你是用什麼樣的一個強制性要求他百分之百到位行政命令嗎還是什麼你們之前的副署長是這樣講的沒有強制他是不是找不到法源還是怎麼回事我跟委員報告其實在機場裡面\n\n24\n00:08:46,311 --> 00:09:15,192\n我們的通關檢查是關稅所有的行李不管你是手提或者是托育行李全部都要海關經過但為了非洲豬瘟所以又增加的關卡就是在於海關檢查之前來個手檢區那這個手檢區的目的是如果你經過這裡檢查有遺異或者是豬肉的產品你馬上棄置那這個不會受罰但是如果你到了海關那裡檢查那百分之百一定受罰所以原來的用意上是讓\n\n25\n00:09:16,433 --> 00:09:42,263\n所有的遊客是等於doublecheck你自己再確認看看那如果你有違規的產品那就利用這個時候趕快把它丟棄對那至於說法院那因為我們的作為都是叫做行政作為那假設需要加強它的法規的一個力度我覺得這個部分我們都適時可以做研討但是在機場的檢驗事實上確實這個它有一定的法規好那我現在就正式問你\n\n26\n00:09:43,343 --> 00:10:00,513\n在現在你也沒有一個很明確的法源情況底下如果有遊客是從高風險區域回來然後你要檢查他的手簡報他挑戰你說你沒有法源就是我可以拒絕我拒絕你檢查我的手簡報可以或不可以\n\n27\n00:10:01,453 --> 00:10:15,584\n以目前來講我們都行政勸導希望你能夠通過假設他執意要過到了海關的檢查被檢出對不起就是20萬我們就開立20萬我知道但是他如果很僥倖海關也不會100%檢查\n\n28\n00:10:18,632 --> 00:10:37,174\n他就僥倖通關了所以你的意思就是說我們現在在前面的這個手減包的部分是真的沒有法源也沒有辦法百分之百強制嗎包括委員我們現在目前的運作是假設這個遊客他拒絕那可能我們就通知末端的海關對這個人要加強\n\n29\n00:10:38,115 --> 00:10:59,157\n我知道所以你現在告訴我是說他是真的沒有法源你們這個副署長也沒有講是行政我們現在都是行政措施所以沒有辦法到非常強制性的那我現在就問你怎麼樣可以做到非常強制性的高風險的民眾回來這個手撿包要百分之百接受檢驗要怎麼樣可以做到\n\n30\n00:10:59,617 --> 00:11:14,836\n如果我們修法相對我們要有正式的人力投入到裡面去所以你們做不到我們現在完全沒有對沒有多餘的人力去做那蘇貞昌時代你們是怎麼做到的就是由這個就是由這個守檢區是那你們那時候會讓遊客是可以說我拒絕嗎\n\n31\n00:11:17,233 --> 00:11:34,622\n如果遇到拒絕的你們當時是怎麼執行的我剛剛跟委員報告絕多數的遊客都會配合這遇到這種少數要挑戰你公權利的我們就當下都會通知海關的部分針對這個遊客特別關注\n\n32\n00:11:35,242 --> 00:11:55,371\n到海關的時候就要打開這個海關我問一下海關有沒有做到我們財政部的這個關務署這個雙重把關如果他前面他執意現在沒有法源可以要求他強制就是去掃他的手提包到了你的海關他通知你海關就可以百分之百可以攔下來\n\n33\n00:11:55,951 --> 00:12:08,759\n是報告委員就是剛才這邊講的就是手提行李的部分在房檢署這邊是有房檢署這邊去做手檢那有關拖運行李的部分在他上這個行李檢那行李轉盤之前絕對百分之百海關這邊S光檢驗然後如果他有異常的話我們會助檢\n\n34\n00:12:16,563 --> 00:12:33,457\n那住檢旅客領了行李要通過我們的檢查台之前我們就會再過一次X光復檢然後開箱查驗那剛才房檢署這邊提到說如果有拒絕手檢的他們假如有通知假如有通知海關的話海關絕對會去加強然後開箱查驗那之前你們有收到幾件是房檢署通知你們他手檢拒檢然後你們來檢查他的手檢的有幾件\n\n35\n00:12:46,657 --> 00:13:06,478\n這個部分可能我現在沒有資料我們之後再提供看看我們的機場這邊有沒有收到過這個房間署那房間署呢你們通報了幾件你們房間署通報幾件要求海關要收檢這個應該不是在我們的\n\n36\n00:13:10,020 --> 00:13:28,627\n這個目標的數據因為是我們這是當即立即有這樣的狀況就做處理那另外我跟委員報告就是說你們沒有登錄也不知道幾件還是從來根本就沒有通報過沒有連線過這個是因為有加強那就通過那還有一個我們還有一個把關的關卡是在於我們的這個檢疫權\n\n37\n00:13:31,264 --> 00:13:47,120\n檢疫權我知道檢疫權都是在跟海關同一個層級所以現在現在防檢署告訴大家就是說的確你們的這個首檢站他沒有公權力可以要求100%這個旅客你一定要經過這個你們的首檢站把\n\n38\n00:13:50,883 --> 00:14:10,104\n包包打開沒有百分之百的強制按照你的說法就是這樣所以是靠後面的檢疫權或者是你可能未來你再去通知海關要求他打開到目前為止你的確就是沒有一個法源依據要求他必須把皮包打開對不對現在聽起來就是這樣子啊\n\n39\n00:14:11,105 --> 00:14:28,874\n那如果這樣子的話他就是一個漏洞嘛那我要求防檢局你們要盡快把這個漏洞補起來嘛不是說過去是靠蘇貞昌院長因為他很嚴厲他很兇然後要求你們做到然後就趕快去做但是做了這件事情坦白講是沒有法源依據的\n\n40\n00:14:29,474 --> 00:14:45,900\n你們根本不知道他依據什麼來源所以你遇到一個挑戰你公權力的人呢你就沒轍了你真的沒轍委員我還是希望真的這個不能否定因為幾乎所有的都會經過這個手檢區也都會配合做檢查我知道我們現在在檢討漏洞\n\n41\n00:14:46,400 --> 00:15:08,729\n所以當你遇到這一種要挑戰你公權力他硬不給你手檢的時候坦白講你現在就是沒轍嘛你當時的那個防檢署的副署長講的是沒有錯的嘛依法論法他就是找不到一個強而有力的法源說你就是要給我經過那這個你們趕快去補漏洞啊趕快看要修哪一個法令啊按照你的這個防疫的哪一個法\n\n42\n00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:27,837\n就是說因為他是從高風險地區來的你就必須強制的百分之百手減嘛你不能是靠後面最後海關啊海關號驗的也很多啊那你這個已經是高風險就應該是高強度的查驗啊你不允許讓人家去挑戰你的公權力嘛好不好好那你這個多久可以演繹出來因為這是盡快補破網不是\n\n43\n00:15:32,911 --> 00:15:58,163\n為什麼用保全就是在機場的其他的檢驗CIQS都有正式人力那沒有給我們正式人力在這個首檢區執行所以支持我們經費用保全的方式來執行這件事情那假設真的要落實納入到我們CIQS的整個的流程裡面那絕對是要正式的人力跟資金投入在這個裡面但以我目前來講是\n\n44\n00:16:00,771 --> 00:16:24,464\n是確實是要以有限有的編制上來處理這件事情我要你們把漏洞補起來無論是你要立法百分之百的補這個漏洞由防檢局來做或者是要求變成是財政部的海關你必須做成是第二道防線你們一定要百分之百SOP的通報就你要挑戰我公權我從海關擋你那你這個整個要建置起來啊\n\n45\n00:16:25,004 --> 00:16:37,793\n要不然你這個我看得很明顯它就是一個漏洞好不好這個漏洞一定要補起來才不會讓非洲豬人下一次繼續從這邊進來好不好要嚴格的執行謝謝好謝謝我又宣告一下我們到廖偉祥召委宣導結束之後\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n970\t22341\t請時部長因為今天是未還委員會部長來還是不能坐在旁邊我先問部長昨天您跟賴總統有出席一個記者會這個活動裡面特別提到了健康台灣深耕計畫五年要有\n26022\t35967\t489億那另外一個你提到了健康幣那本席就要就叫你就是目前這一個健康台灣深耕計畫五年489億請問預算編在哪裡送進來立法院了沒\n41009\t50335\t我們是逐年提報這個預算那今年是已經有在這個預算審查已經完成的那明年的那個預算我們也編在115年度的這個預算書裡頭\n53479\t80246\t那你的健康币是编在这个深耕台湾计划里面吗不是这个是刚刚提到的那个深耕计划是给相关的这个医院还有诊所区域性的还有这个工会有些工会也得到这个计划所以他们是去做包含这个优化医事人员职业条件包含这个智慧医疗的发展\n80946\t106824\t包含人才的培育等等這些所以不包含健康幣嗎不包含行政機關要執行的本席就要就教你你所對外宣布的健康幣明年第一季就要實施但是我們看一下現在的預算不知道你是編在哪一個屬下面因為找不到那之前我們辦公室也有問就說還沒編還沒編明年第一季就要上路\n107444\t127570\t跟委員報告是說我們這個健康幣我們主要主管機關做的是那個資訊的這個架構所以不用錢對那以我們以我們本來的科技計畫在執行我們本來就有一些行政的預算在這個你不用新增預算嗎你不是說很好康就是還可以抽腳踏車還有很多的獎沒有\n128030\t150362\t那個東西是要跟民間合作的啦所以你意思是健康幣的推動所有的規劃到執行你完全不用新增預算還是在我們本來的預算裡頭去執行那個資訊跟委員報告就是說簡單的講我們會第一個他的那個健康幣的收集是用我們現在的健康存摺\n151423\t168800\t去扩充功能所以他等於我們每年都有然後所有的獎項都是廠商捐你們都不用變預算然後我們是跟這個合作第一階段明年是第一階段而已那麼跟業者民間來合作比如說他願意那你明年的第一季預計什麼時候實施\n170443\t185159\t现在还在下街当中没有那么快所以计划还不够完整还没有办法完成那你什么时候可以完整本席很想了解你整个健康币的连体之前我们整个的规划就会出来了\n185359\t208851\t年底12月嗎那麻煩你這一個整個健康幣的執行的相關的計畫就是要送給這個委員會我們要了解你怎麼執行還有包括你的預算邊緣你剛剛是說不會增加任何新增的計畫因為很快委員會可能就要排預算審查了那你如果沒有這一筆預算的話那你真的就要百分之百去募款了你就沒有這筆錢了\n209731\t219278\t我們會來努力用我們本來的預算裡面在科技的部因為這個就是一些科技平台的建立用我們原本的一些預算來所以不新增預算\n241212\t260406\t接下來我要問這個防疫的問題今天來的各部會的代表跟那個邊境防疫有關的房檢署還有這個關務署請上台我們可以看到蘇貞昌院長前院長他在非洲豬瘟開始之後呢他其實也發了一篇的臉書\n261647\t286086\t那我感覺他是憂心忡忡覺得是不是大家螺絲鬆了所以趕快提醒大家因為他好不容易他當時他最驕傲的政績就是守住把非洲豬瘟擋在境外所以大家都印象深刻這個當時鄰近國家發生非洲豬瘟的時候他跑到他衝到這個陶基然後彪罵了十多分鐘這個我不曉得在座的這個官員有沒有人在現場\n287267\t309508\t他就是要求一定要嚴格把關那結果呢現在是邊境破防喔就是讓這一個非洲豬瘟進來了那現在當然就是要檢討就是怎麼樣可以去防堵喔那我給各位看一個網友他PO的這個PO文喔這個是2025年6月23號這個網友呢看起來是個炫耀文他說他從馬來西亞回台灣\n311770\t334501\t那他直接一下飛機之後呢他跟這個寫請的保全表明說我不要豬瘟的檢查然後這個保全呢就直接讓他走旁邊出去了一點刁難都沒有他說他本來擔心會被阻擾所以呢還是先什麼手機開好這個防檢署的梭子結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關\n336282\t363880\t那他还教大家说下一次从朱温疫区回台湾大家不用当冤大头排队检查手提行李而他引用的是113年12月防检署的副署长徐荣斌受访的时候他说非洲朱温手检站针对高风险国家旅客手检皮包没有强制旅客可以拒绝\n364760\t388746\t那這個就是最大的漏洞啊你若從疫區回來的手檢包都不用這個認真檢查然後旅客說我不想被檢查然後就從旁邊出去然後你僱用的就是保全人員你這樣子的一個執行的強度難怪現在非洲豬瘟從邊境就進來了嘛\n390126\t419506\t就是這樣子啊我要問各位是那這樣的一個狀況你現在還是這樣子嗎現在非洲諸位已經被發現了就跑到台灣來了你們的邊境還是這麼的鬆散嗎是不是你根本沒有法源沒有強制力所以他的手簡報即使是從這一個高風險疫區回來的只要旅客表明說我不想要被檢查你也沒有法源所以沒有強制力顧的還是只是保全而已是不是這樣\n420386\t449245\t報告委員 我覺得這個的可能在現實狀況有些文字上或口語上會有扭曲但以現在來講他一定要經過手檢區所以之前就是有鬆動嘛沒有百分之百嘛手檢區一定有分流分流就是說39個非洲疫區的國家他一定強制性是啊 馬來西亞是不是馬來西亞是 是非洲那他這一個人PO上去他就說他就是馬來西亞回來啊他就不用被手檢了因為他說我不要被手檢了\n450746\t476103\t以現在目前來講我覺得這絕對不可能所以回溯這則新聞或者是這一個的報導是不是實在其實還有必要再追查看看有必要再追查 你們自己去問你們的房檢署副署長之前這一位徐副署長其實一直都沒有鬆懈其實7年來都沒有鬆懈那這個是怎麼回事這個是真真實實 人家PO在網路上面講得非常的具體\n477083\t493662\t網路常常有自由的言論那你們去查這是不是假消息因為這個已經不是一個人講了喔那這個就是之前你們根本沒有一個法源的情況底下你又沒有強制執行嘛之前蘇貞昌院長在的時候我知道他非常的嚴格所以是百分之百\n494443\t508274\t但你們後來就鬆掉了嘛鬆掉之後就變成這樣的情況嘛就是尊重旅客自由意願他是高風險國家你還尊重他個人意願然後說不想檢查就走而且他引用的就是你們自己官員講的話\n510055\t525604\t這個你們要好好檢討那你現在到底有沒有法源你是用什麼樣的一個強制性要求他百分之百到位行政命令嗎還是什麼你們之前的副署長是這樣講的沒有強制他是不是找不到法源還是怎麼回事我跟委員報告其實在機場裡面\n526311\t555192\t我們的通關檢查是關稅所有的行李不管你是手提或者是托育行李全部都要海關經過但為了非洲豬瘟所以又增加的關卡就是在於海關檢查之前來個手檢區那這個手檢區的目的是如果你經過這裡檢查有遺異或者是豬肉的產品你馬上棄置那這個不會受罰但是如果你到了海關那裡檢查那百分之百一定受罰所以原來的用意上是讓\n556433\t582263\t所有的遊客是等於double check你自己再確認看看那如果你有違規的產品那就利用這個時候趕快把它丟棄對 那至於說法院那因為我們的作為都是叫做行政作為那假設需要加強它的法規的一個力度我覺得這個部分我們都適時可以做研討但是在機場的檢驗事實上確實這個它有一定的法規好 那我現在就正式問你\n583343\t600513\t在現在你也沒有一個很明確的法源情況底下如果有遊客是從高風險區域回來然後你要檢查他的手簡報他挑戰你說你沒有法源就是我可以拒絕我拒絕你檢查我的手簡報可以或不可以\n601453\t615584\t以目前來講 我們都行政勸導希望你能夠通過假設他執意要過 到了海關的檢查被檢出 對不起 就是20萬我們就開立20萬我知道 但是他如果很僥倖海關也不會100%檢查\n618632\t637174\t他就僥倖通關了所以你的意思就是說我們現在在前面的這個手減包的部分是真的沒有法源也沒有辦法百分之百強制嗎包括委員我們現在目前的運作是假設這個遊客他拒絕那可能我們就通知末端的海關對這個人要加強\n638115\t659157\t我知道所以你現在告訴我是說他是真的沒有法源你們這個副署長也沒有講是行政我們現在都是行政措施所以沒有辦法到非常強制性的那我現在就問你怎麼樣可以做到非常強制性的高風險的民眾回來這個手撿包要百分之百接受檢驗要怎麼樣可以做到\n659617\t674836\t如果我們修法相對我們要有正式的人力投入到裡面去所以你們做不到我們現在完全沒有對沒有多餘的人力去做那蘇貞昌時代你們是怎麼做到的就是由這個就是由這個守檢區是那你們那時候會讓遊客是可以說我拒絕嗎\n677233\t694622\t如果遇到拒絕的 你們當時是怎麼執行的我剛剛跟委員報告絕多數的遊客都會配合這遇到這種少數要挑戰你公權利的我們就當下都會通知海關的部分針對這個遊客特別關注\n695242\t715371\t到海關的時候就要打開這個海關我問一下海關有沒有做到我們財政部的這個關務署這個雙重把關如果他前面他執意現在沒有法源可以要求他強制就是去掃他的手提包到了你的海關他通知你海關就可以百分之百可以攔下來\n715951\t728759\t是報告委員就是剛才這邊講的就是手提行李的部分在房檢署這邊是有房檢署這邊去做手檢那有關拖運行李的部分在他上這個行李檢那行李轉盤之前絕對百分之百海關這邊S光檢驗然後如果他有異常的話我們會助檢\n736563\t753457\t那住檢旅客領了行李要通過我們的檢查台之前我們就會再過一次X光復檢然後開箱查驗那剛才房檢署這邊提到說如果有拒絕手檢的他們假如有通知假如有通知海關的話海關絕對會去加強然後開箱查驗那之前你們有收到幾件是房檢署通知你們他手檢拒檢然後你們來檢查他的手檢的有幾件\n766657\t786478\t這個部分可能我現在沒有資料我們之後再提供 看看我們的機場這邊有沒有收到過這個房間署那房間署呢 你們通報了幾件你們房間署通報幾件要求海關要收檢這個應該不是在我們的\n790020\t808627\t這個目標的數據 因為是我們這是當即立即有這樣的狀況就做處理那另外我跟委員報告就是說你們沒有登錄也不知道幾件還是從來根本就沒有通報過沒有連線過這個是因為有加強那就通過那還有一個我們還有一個把關的關卡是在於我們的這個檢疫權\n811264\t827120\t檢疫權我知道檢疫權都是在跟海關同一個層級所以現在現在防檢署告訴大家就是說的確你們的這個首檢站他沒有公權力可以要求100%這個旅客你一定要經過這個你們的首檢站把\n830883\t850104\t包包打開沒有百分之百的強制按照你的說法就是這樣所以是靠後面的檢疫權或者是你可能未來你再去通知海關要求他打開到目前為止你的確就是沒有一個法源依據要求他必須把皮包打開對不對現在聽起來就是這樣子啊\n851105\t868874\t那如果這樣子的話他就是一個漏洞嘛那我要求防檢局你們要盡快把這個漏洞補起來嘛不是說過去是靠蘇貞昌院長因為他很嚴厲他很兇然後要求你們做到然後就趕快去做但是做了這件事情坦白講是沒有法源依據的\n869474\t885900\t你們根本不知道他依據什麼來源所以你遇到一個挑戰你公權力的人呢你就沒轍了你真的沒轍委員我還是希望真的這個不能否定因為幾乎所有的都會經過這個手檢區也都會配合做檢查我知道我們現在在檢討漏洞\n886400\t908729\t所以當你遇到這一種要挑戰你公權力他硬不給你手檢的時候坦白講你現在就是沒轍嘛你當時的那個防檢署的副署長講的是沒有錯的嘛依法論法他就是找不到一個強而有力的法源說你就是要給我經過那這個你們趕快去補漏洞啊趕快看要修哪一個法令啊按照你的這個防疫的哪一個法\n909269\t927837\t就是說因為他是從高風險地區來的你就必須強制的百分之百手減嘛你不能是靠後面最後海關啊海關號驗的也很多啊那你這個已經是高風險就應該是高強度的查驗啊你不允許讓人家去挑戰你的公權力嘛好不好好那你這個多久可以演繹出來因為這是盡快補破網不是\n932911\t958163\t為什麼用保全就是在機場的其他的檢驗CIQS都有正式人力那沒有給我們正式人力在這個首檢區執行所以支持我們經費用保全的方式來執行這件事情那假設真的要落實納入到我們CIQS的整個的流程裡面那絕對是要正式的人力跟資金投入在這個裡面但以我目前來講是\n960771\t984464\t是確實是要以有限有的編制上來處理這件事情我要你們把漏洞補起來無論是你要立法百分之百的補這個漏洞由防檢局來做或者是要求變成是財政部的海關你必須做成是第二道防線你們一定要百分之百SOP的通報就你要挑戰我公權 我從海關擋你那你這個整個要建置起來啊\n985004\t997793\t要不然你這個我看得很明顯它就是一個漏洞好不好這個漏洞一定要補起來才不會讓非洲豬人下一次繼續從這邊進來好不好要嚴格的執行 謝謝好 謝謝我又宣告一下我們到廖偉祥召委宣導結束之後\n","txt":"請時部長因為今天是未還委員會部長來還是不能坐在旁邊我先問部長昨天您跟賴總統有出席一個記者會這個活動裡面特別提到了健康台灣深耕計畫五年要有\n489億那另外一個你提到了健康幣那本席就要就叫你就是目前這一個健康台灣深耕計畫五年489億請問預算編在哪裡送進來立法院了沒\n我們是逐年提報這個預算那今年是已經有在這個預算審查已經完成的那明年的那個預算我們也編在115年度的這個預算書裡頭\n那你的健康币是编在这个深耕台湾计划里面吗不是这个是刚刚提到的那个深耕计划是给相关的这个医院还有诊所区域性的还有这个工会有些工会也得到这个计划所以他们是去做包含这个优化医事人员职业条件包含这个智慧医疗的发展\n包含人才的培育等等這些所以不包含健康幣嗎不包含行政機關要執行的本席就要就教你你所對外宣布的健康幣明年第一季就要實施但是我們看一下現在的預算不知道你是編在哪一個屬下面因為找不到那之前我們辦公室也有問就說還沒編還沒編明年第一季就要上路\n跟委員報告是說我們這個健康幣我們主要主管機關做的是那個資訊的這個架構所以不用錢對那以我們以我們本來的科技計畫在執行我們本來就有一些行政的預算在這個你不用新增預算嗎你不是說很好康就是還可以抽腳踏車還有很多的獎沒有\n那個東西是要跟民間合作的啦所以你意思是健康幣的推動所有的規劃到執行你完全不用新增預算還是在我們本來的預算裡頭去執行那個資訊跟委員報告就是說簡單的講我們會第一個他的那個健康幣的收集是用我們現在的健康存摺\n去扩充功能所以他等於我們每年都有然後所有的獎項都是廠商捐你們都不用變預算然後我們是跟這個合作第一階段明年是第一階段而已那麼跟業者民間來合作比如說他願意那你明年的第一季預計什麼時候實施\n现在还在下街当中没有那么快所以计划还不够完整还没有办法完成那你什么时候可以完整本席很想了解你整个健康币的连体之前我们整个的规划就会出来了\n年底12月嗎那麻煩你這一個整個健康幣的執行的相關的計畫就是要送給這個委員會我們要了解你怎麼執行還有包括你的預算邊緣你剛剛是說不會增加任何新增的計畫因為很快委員會可能就要排預算審查了那你如果沒有這一筆預算的話那你真的就要百分之百去募款了你就沒有這筆錢了\n我們會來努力用我們本來的預算裡面在科技的部因為這個就是一些科技平台的建立用我們原本的一些預算來所以不新增預算\n接下來我要問這個防疫的問題今天來的各部會的代表跟那個邊境防疫有關的房檢署還有這個關務署請上台我們可以看到蘇貞昌院長前院長他在非洲豬瘟開始之後呢他其實也發了一篇的臉書\n那我感覺他是憂心忡忡覺得是不是大家螺絲鬆了所以趕快提醒大家因為他好不容易他當時他最驕傲的政績就是守住把非洲豬瘟擋在境外所以大家都印象深刻這個當時鄰近國家發生非洲豬瘟的時候他跑到他衝到這個陶基然後彪罵了十多分鐘這個我不曉得在座的這個官員有沒有人在現場\n他就是要求一定要嚴格把關那結果呢現在是邊境破防喔就是讓這一個非洲豬瘟進來了那現在當然就是要檢討就是怎麼樣可以去防堵喔那我給各位看一個網友他PO的這個PO文喔這個是2025年6月23號這個網友呢看起來是個炫耀文他說他從馬來西亞回台灣\n那他直接一下飛機之後呢他跟這個寫請的保全表明說我不要豬瘟的檢查然後這個保全呢就直接讓他走旁邊出去了一點刁難都沒有他說他本來擔心會被阻擾所以呢還是先什麼手機開好這個防檢署的梭子結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關\n那他还教大家说下一次从朱温疫区回台湾大家不用当冤大头排队检查手提行李而他引用的是113年12月防检署的副署长徐荣斌受访的时候他说非洲朱温手检站针对高风险国家旅客手检皮包没有强制旅客可以拒绝\n那這個就是最大的漏洞啊你若從疫區回來的手檢包都不用這個認真檢查然後旅客說我不想被檢查然後就從旁邊出去然後你僱用的就是保全人員你這樣子的一個執行的強度難怪現在非洲豬瘟從邊境就進來了嘛\n就是這樣子啊我要問各位是那這樣的一個狀況你現在還是這樣子嗎現在非洲諸位已經被發現了就跑到台灣來了你們的邊境還是這麼的鬆散嗎是不是你根本沒有法源沒有強制力所以他的手簡報即使是從這一個高風險疫區回來的只要旅客表明說我不想要被檢查你也沒有法源所以沒有強制力顧的還是只是保全而已是不是這樣\n報告委員 我覺得這個的可能在現實狀況有些文字上或口語上會有扭曲但以現在來講他一定要經過手檢區所以之前就是有鬆動嘛沒有百分之百嘛手檢區一定有分流分流就是說39個非洲疫區的國家他一定強制性是啊 馬來西亞是不是馬來西亞是 是非洲那他這一個人PO上去他就說他就是馬來西亞回來啊他就不用被手檢了因為他說我不要被手檢了\n以現在目前來講我覺得這絕對不可能所以回溯這則新聞或者是這一個的報導是不是實在其實還有必要再追查看看有必要再追查 你們自己去問你們的房檢署副署長之前這一位徐副署長其實一直都沒有鬆懈其實7年來都沒有鬆懈那這個是怎麼回事這個是真真實實 人家PO在網路上面講得非常的具體\n網路常常有自由的言論那你們去查這是不是假消息因為這個已經不是一個人講了喔那這個就是之前你們根本沒有一個法源的情況底下你又沒有強制執行嘛之前蘇貞昌院長在的時候我知道他非常的嚴格所以是百分之百\n但你們後來就鬆掉了嘛鬆掉之後就變成這樣的情況嘛就是尊重旅客自由意願他是高風險國家你還尊重他個人意願然後說不想檢查就走而且他引用的就是你們自己官員講的話\n這個你們要好好檢討那你現在到底有沒有法源你是用什麼樣的一個強制性要求他百分之百到位行政命令嗎還是什麼你們之前的副署長是這樣講的沒有強制他是不是找不到法源還是怎麼回事我跟委員報告其實在機場裡面\n我們的通關檢查是關稅所有的行李不管你是手提或者是托育行李全部都要海關經過但為了非洲豬瘟所以又增加的關卡就是在於海關檢查之前來個手檢區那這個手檢區的目的是如果你經過這裡檢查有遺異或者是豬肉的產品你馬上棄置那這個不會受罰但是如果你到了海關那裡檢查那百分之百一定受罰所以原來的用意上是讓\n所有的遊客是等於double check你自己再確認看看那如果你有違規的產品那就利用這個時候趕快把它丟棄對 那至於說法院那因為我們的作為都是叫做行政作為那假設需要加強它的法規的一個力度我覺得這個部分我們都適時可以做研討但是在機場的檢驗事實上確實這個它有一定的法規好 那我現在就正式問你\n在現在你也沒有一個很明確的法源情況底下如果有遊客是從高風險區域回來然後你要檢查他的手簡報他挑戰你說你沒有法源就是我可以拒絕我拒絕你檢查我的手簡報可以或不可以\n以目前來講 我們都行政勸導希望你能夠通過假設他執意要過 到了海關的檢查被檢出 對不起 就是20萬我們就開立20萬我知道 但是他如果很僥倖海關也不會100%檢查\n他就僥倖通關了所以你的意思就是說我們現在在前面的這個手減包的部分是真的沒有法源也沒有辦法百分之百強制嗎包括委員我們現在目前的運作是假設這個遊客他拒絕那可能我們就通知末端的海關對這個人要加強\n我知道所以你現在告訴我是說他是真的沒有法源你們這個副署長也沒有講是行政我們現在都是行政措施所以沒有辦法到非常強制性的那我現在就問你怎麼樣可以做到非常強制性的高風險的民眾回來這個手撿包要百分之百接受檢驗要怎麼樣可以做到\n如果我們修法相對我們要有正式的人力投入到裡面去所以你們做不到我們現在完全沒有對沒有多餘的人力去做那蘇貞昌時代你們是怎麼做到的就是由這個就是由這個守檢區是那你們那時候會讓遊客是可以說我拒絕嗎\n如果遇到拒絕的 你們當時是怎麼執行的我剛剛跟委員報告絕多數的遊客都會配合這遇到這種少數要挑戰你公權利的我們就當下都會通知海關的部分針對這個遊客特別關注\n到海關的時候就要打開這個海關我問一下海關有沒有做到我們財政部的這個關務署這個雙重把關如果他前面他執意現在沒有法源可以要求他強制就是去掃他的手提包到了你的海關他通知你海關就可以百分之百可以攔下來\n是報告委員就是剛才這邊講的就是手提行李的部分在房檢署這邊是有房檢署這邊去做手檢那有關拖運行李的部分在他上這個行李檢那行李轉盤之前絕對百分之百海關這邊S光檢驗然後如果他有異常的話我們會助檢\n那住檢旅客領了行李要通過我們的檢查台之前我們就會再過一次X光復檢然後開箱查驗那剛才房檢署這邊提到說如果有拒絕手檢的他們假如有通知假如有通知海關的話海關絕對會去加強然後開箱查驗那之前你們有收到幾件是房檢署通知你們他手檢拒檢然後你們來檢查他的手檢的有幾件\n這個部分可能我現在沒有資料我們之後再提供 看看我們的機場這邊有沒有收到過這個房間署那房間署呢 你們通報了幾件你們房間署通報幾件要求海關要收檢這個應該不是在我們的\n這個目標的數據 因為是我們這是當即立即有這樣的狀況就做處理那另外我跟委員報告就是說你們沒有登錄也不知道幾件還是從來根本就沒有通報過沒有連線過這個是因為有加強那就通過那還有一個我們還有一個把關的關卡是在於我們的這個檢疫權\n檢疫權我知道檢疫權都是在跟海關同一個層級所以現在現在防檢署告訴大家就是說的確你們的這個首檢站他沒有公權力可以要求100%這個旅客你一定要經過這個你們的首檢站把\n包包打開沒有百分之百的強制按照你的說法就是這樣所以是靠後面的檢疫權或者是你可能未來你再去通知海關要求他打開到目前為止你的確就是沒有一個法源依據要求他必須把皮包打開對不對現在聽起來就是這樣子啊\n那如果這樣子的話他就是一個漏洞嘛那我要求防檢局你們要盡快把這個漏洞補起來嘛不是說過去是靠蘇貞昌院長因為他很嚴厲他很兇然後要求你們做到然後就趕快去做但是做了這件事情坦白講是沒有法源依據的\n你們根本不知道他依據什麼來源所以你遇到一個挑戰你公權力的人呢你就沒轍了你真的沒轍委員我還是希望真的這個不能否定因為幾乎所有的都會經過這個手檢區也都會配合做檢查我知道我們現在在檢討漏洞\n所以當你遇到這一種要挑戰你公權力他硬不給你手檢的時候坦白講你現在就是沒轍嘛你當時的那個防檢署的副署長講的是沒有錯的嘛依法論法他就是找不到一個強而有力的法源說你就是要給我經過那這個你們趕快去補漏洞啊趕快看要修哪一個法令啊按照你的這個防疫的哪一個法\n就是說因為他是從高風險地區來的你就必須強制的百分之百手減嘛你不能是靠後面最後海關啊海關號驗的也很多啊那你這個已經是高風險就應該是高強度的查驗啊你不允許讓人家去挑戰你的公權力嘛好不好好那你這個多久可以演繹出來因為這是盡快補破網不是\n為什麼用保全就是在機場的其他的檢驗CIQS都有正式人力那沒有給我們正式人力在這個首檢區執行所以支持我們經費用保全的方式來執行這件事情那假設真的要落實納入到我們CIQS的整個的流程裡面那絕對是要正式的人力跟資金投入在這個裡面但以我目前來講是\n是確實是要以有限有的編制上來處理這件事情我要你們把漏洞補起來無論是你要立法百分之百的補這個漏洞由防檢局來做或者是要求變成是財政部的海關你必須做成是第二道防線你們一定要百分之百SOP的通報就你要挑戰我公權 我從海關擋你那你這個整個要建置起來啊\n要不然你這個我看得很明顯它就是一個漏洞好不好這個漏洞一定要補起來才不會讓非洲豬人下一次繼續從這邊進來好不好要嚴格的執行 謝謝好 謝謝我又宣告一下我們到廖偉祥召委宣導結束之後\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.970 --> 00:22.341\n請時部長因為今天是未還委員會部長來還是不能坐在旁邊我先問部長昨天您跟賴總統有出席一個記者會這個活動裡面特別提到了健康台灣深耕計畫五年要有\n\n00:26.022 --> 00:35.967\n489億那另外一個你提到了健康幣那本席就要就叫你就是目前這一個健康台灣深耕計畫五年489億請問預算編在哪裡送進來立法院了沒\n\n00:41.009 --> 00:50.335\n我們是逐年提報這個預算那今年是已經有在這個預算審查已經完成的那明年的那個預算我們也編在115年度的這個預算書裡頭\n\n00:53.479 --> 01:20.246\n那你的健康币是编在这个深耕台湾计划里面吗不是这个是刚刚提到的那个深耕计划是给相关的这个医院还有诊所区域性的还有这个工会有些工会也得到这个计划所以他们是去做包含这个优化医事人员职业条件包含这个智慧医疗的发展\n\n01:20.946 --> 01:46.824\n包含人才的培育等等這些所以不包含健康幣嗎不包含行政機關要執行的本席就要就教你你所對外宣布的健康幣明年第一季就要實施但是我們看一下現在的預算不知道你是編在哪一個屬下面因為找不到那之前我們辦公室也有問就說還沒編還沒編明年第一季就要上路\n\n01:47.444 --> 02:07.570\n跟委員報告是說我們這個健康幣我們主要主管機關做的是那個資訊的這個架構所以不用錢對那以我們以我們本來的科技計畫在執行我們本來就有一些行政的預算在這個你不用新增預算嗎你不是說很好康就是還可以抽腳踏車還有很多的獎沒有\n\n02:08.030 --> 02:30.362\n那個東西是要跟民間合作的啦所以你意思是健康幣的推動所有的規劃到執行你完全不用新增預算還是在我們本來的預算裡頭去執行那個資訊跟委員報告就是說簡單的講我們會第一個他的那個健康幣的收集是用我們現在的健康存摺\n\n02:31.423 --> 02:48.800\n去扩充功能所以他等於我們每年都有然後所有的獎項都是廠商捐你們都不用變預算然後我們是跟這個合作第一階段明年是第一階段而已那麼跟業者民間來合作比如說他願意那你明年的第一季預計什麼時候實施\n\n02:50.443 --> 03:05.159\n现在还在下街当中没有那么快所以计划还不够完整还没有办法完成那你什么时候可以完整本席很想了解你整个健康币的连体之前我们整个的规划就会出来了\n\n03:05.359 --> 03:28.851\n年底12月嗎那麻煩你這一個整個健康幣的執行的相關的計畫就是要送給這個委員會我們要了解你怎麼執行還有包括你的預算邊緣你剛剛是說不會增加任何新增的計畫因為很快委員會可能就要排預算審查了那你如果沒有這一筆預算的話那你真的就要百分之百去募款了你就沒有這筆錢了\n\n03:29.731 --> 03:39.278\n我們會來努力用我們本來的預算裡面在科技的部因為這個就是一些科技平台的建立用我們原本的一些預算來所以不新增預算\n\n04:01.212 --> 04:20.406\n接下來我要問這個防疫的問題今天來的各部會的代表跟那個邊境防疫有關的房檢署還有這個關務署請上台我們可以看到蘇貞昌院長前院長他在非洲豬瘟開始之後呢他其實也發了一篇的臉書\n\n04:21.647 --> 04:46.086\n那我感覺他是憂心忡忡覺得是不是大家螺絲鬆了所以趕快提醒大家因為他好不容易他當時他最驕傲的政績就是守住把非洲豬瘟擋在境外所以大家都印象深刻這個當時鄰近國家發生非洲豬瘟的時候他跑到他衝到這個陶基然後彪罵了十多分鐘這個我不曉得在座的這個官員有沒有人在現場\n\n04:47.267 --> 05:09.508\n他就是要求一定要嚴格把關那結果呢現在是邊境破防喔就是讓這一個非洲豬瘟進來了那現在當然就是要檢討就是怎麼樣可以去防堵喔那我給各位看一個網友他PO的這個PO文喔這個是2025年6月23號這個網友呢看起來是個炫耀文他說他從馬來西亞回台灣\n\n05:11.770 --> 05:34.501\n那他直接一下飛機之後呢他跟這個寫請的保全表明說我不要豬瘟的檢查然後這個保全呢就直接讓他走旁邊出去了一點刁難都沒有他說他本來擔心會被阻擾所以呢還是先什麼手機開好這個防檢署的梭子結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關\n\n05:36.282 --> 06:03.880\n那他还教大家说下一次从朱温疫区回台湾大家不用当冤大头排队检查手提行李而他引用的是113年12月防检署的副署长徐荣斌受访的时候他说非洲朱温手检站针对高风险国家旅客手检皮包没有强制旅客可以拒绝\n\n06:04.760 --> 06:28.746\n那這個就是最大的漏洞啊你若從疫區回來的手檢包都不用這個認真檢查然後旅客說我不想被檢查然後就從旁邊出去然後你僱用的就是保全人員你這樣子的一個執行的強度難怪現在非洲豬瘟從邊境就進來了嘛\n\n06:30.126 --> 06:59.506\n就是這樣子啊我要問各位是那這樣的一個狀況你現在還是這樣子嗎現在非洲諸位已經被發現了就跑到台灣來了你們的邊境還是這麼的鬆散嗎是不是你根本沒有法源沒有強制力所以他的手簡報即使是從這一個高風險疫區回來的只要旅客表明說我不想要被檢查你也沒有法源所以沒有強制力顧的還是只是保全而已是不是這樣\n\n07:00.386 --> 07:29.245\n報告委員我覺得這個的可能在現實狀況有些文字上或口語上會有扭曲但以現在來講他一定要經過手檢區所以之前就是有鬆動嘛沒有百分之百嘛手檢區一定有分流分流就是說39個非洲疫區的國家他一定強制性是啊馬來西亞是不是馬來西亞是是非洲那他這一個人PO上去他就說他就是馬來西亞回來啊他就不用被手檢了因為他說我不要被手檢了\n\n07:30.746 --> 07:56.103\n以現在目前來講我覺得這絕對不可能所以回溯這則新聞或者是這一個的報導是不是實在其實還有必要再追查看看有必要再追查你們自己去問你們的房檢署副署長之前這一位徐副署長其實一直都沒有鬆懈其實7年來都沒有鬆懈那這個是怎麼回事這個是真真實實人家PO在網路上面講得非常的具體\n\n07:57.083 --> 08:13.662\n網路常常有自由的言論那你們去查這是不是假消息因為這個已經不是一個人講了喔那這個就是之前你們根本沒有一個法源的情況底下你又沒有強制執行嘛之前蘇貞昌院長在的時候我知道他非常的嚴格所以是百分之百\n\n08:14.443 --> 08:28.274\n但你們後來就鬆掉了嘛鬆掉之後就變成這樣的情況嘛就是尊重旅客自由意願他是高風險國家你還尊重他個人意願然後說不想檢查就走而且他引用的就是你們自己官員講的話\n\n08:30.055 --> 08:45.604\n這個你們要好好檢討那你現在到底有沒有法源你是用什麼樣的一個強制性要求他百分之百到位行政命令嗎還是什麼你們之前的副署長是這樣講的沒有強制他是不是找不到法源還是怎麼回事我跟委員報告其實在機場裡面\n\n08:46.311 --> 09:15.192\n我們的通關檢查是關稅所有的行李不管你是手提或者是托育行李全部都要海關經過但為了非洲豬瘟所以又增加的關卡就是在於海關檢查之前來個手檢區那這個手檢區的目的是如果你經過這裡檢查有遺異或者是豬肉的產品你馬上棄置那這個不會受罰但是如果你到了海關那裡檢查那百分之百一定受罰所以原來的用意上是讓\n\n09:16.433 --> 09:42.263\n所有的遊客是等於doublecheck你自己再確認看看那如果你有違規的產品那就利用這個時候趕快把它丟棄對那至於說法院那因為我們的作為都是叫做行政作為那假設需要加強它的法規的一個力度我覺得這個部分我們都適時可以做研討但是在機場的檢驗事實上確實這個它有一定的法規好那我現在就正式問你\n\n09:43.343 --> 10:00.513\n在現在你也沒有一個很明確的法源情況底下如果有遊客是從高風險區域回來然後你要檢查他的手簡報他挑戰你說你沒有法源就是我可以拒絕我拒絕你檢查我的手簡報可以或不可以\n\n10:01.453 --> 10:15.584\n以目前來講我們都行政勸導希望你能夠通過假設他執意要過到了海關的檢查被檢出對不起就是20萬我們就開立20萬我知道但是他如果很僥倖海關也不會100%檢查\n\n10:18.632 --> 10:37.174\n他就僥倖通關了所以你的意思就是說我們現在在前面的這個手減包的部分是真的沒有法源也沒有辦法百分之百強制嗎包括委員我們現在目前的運作是假設這個遊客他拒絕那可能我們就通知末端的海關對這個人要加強\n\n10:38.115 --> 10:59.157\n我知道所以你現在告訴我是說他是真的沒有法源你們這個副署長也沒有講是行政我們現在都是行政措施所以沒有辦法到非常強制性的那我現在就問你怎麼樣可以做到非常強制性的高風險的民眾回來這個手撿包要百分之百接受檢驗要怎麼樣可以做到\n\n10:59.617 --> 11:14.836\n如果我們修法相對我們要有正式的人力投入到裡面去所以你們做不到我們現在完全沒有對沒有多餘的人力去做那蘇貞昌時代你們是怎麼做到的就是由這個就是由這個守檢區是那你們那時候會讓遊客是可以說我拒絕嗎\n\n11:17.233 --> 11:34.622\n如果遇到拒絕的你們當時是怎麼執行的我剛剛跟委員報告絕多數的遊客都會配合這遇到這種少數要挑戰你公權利的我們就當下都會通知海關的部分針對這個遊客特別關注\n\n11:35.242 --> 11:55.371\n到海關的時候就要打開這個海關我問一下海關有沒有做到我們財政部的這個關務署這個雙重把關如果他前面他執意現在沒有法源可以要求他強制就是去掃他的手提包到了你的海關他通知你海關就可以百分之百可以攔下來\n\n11:55.951 --> 12:08.759\n是報告委員就是剛才這邊講的就是手提行李的部分在房檢署這邊是有房檢署這邊去做手檢那有關拖運行李的部分在他上這個行李檢那行李轉盤之前絕對百分之百海關這邊S光檢驗然後如果他有異常的話我們會助檢\n\n12:16.563 --> 12:33.457\n那住檢旅客領了行李要通過我們的檢查台之前我們就會再過一次X光復檢然後開箱查驗那剛才房檢署這邊提到說如果有拒絕手檢的他們假如有通知假如有通知海關的話海關絕對會去加強然後開箱查驗那之前你們有收到幾件是房檢署通知你們他手檢拒檢然後你們來檢查他的手檢的有幾件\n\n12:46.657 --> 13:06.478\n這個部分可能我現在沒有資料我們之後再提供看看我們的機場這邊有沒有收到過這個房間署那房間署呢你們通報了幾件你們房間署通報幾件要求海關要收檢這個應該不是在我們的\n\n13:10.020 --> 13:28.627\n這個目標的數據因為是我們這是當即立即有這樣的狀況就做處理那另外我跟委員報告就是說你們沒有登錄也不知道幾件還是從來根本就沒有通報過沒有連線過這個是因為有加強那就通過那還有一個我們還有一個把關的關卡是在於我們的這個檢疫權\n\n13:31.264 --> 13:47.120\n檢疫權我知道檢疫權都是在跟海關同一個層級所以現在現在防檢署告訴大家就是說的確你們的這個首檢站他沒有公權力可以要求100%這個旅客你一定要經過這個你們的首檢站把\n\n13:50.883 --> 14:10.104\n包包打開沒有百分之百的強制按照你的說法就是這樣所以是靠後面的檢疫權或者是你可能未來你再去通知海關要求他打開到目前為止你的確就是沒有一個法源依據要求他必須把皮包打開對不對現在聽起來就是這樣子啊\n\n14:11.105 --> 14:28.874\n那如果這樣子的話他就是一個漏洞嘛那我要求防檢局你們要盡快把這個漏洞補起來嘛不是說過去是靠蘇貞昌院長因為他很嚴厲他很兇然後要求你們做到然後就趕快去做但是做了這件事情坦白講是沒有法源依據的\n\n14:29.474 --> 14:45.900\n你們根本不知道他依據什麼來源所以你遇到一個挑戰你公權力的人呢你就沒轍了你真的沒轍委員我還是希望真的這個不能否定因為幾乎所有的都會經過這個手檢區也都會配合做檢查我知道我們現在在檢討漏洞\n\n14:46.400 --> 15:08.729\n所以當你遇到這一種要挑戰你公權力他硬不給你手檢的時候坦白講你現在就是沒轍嘛你當時的那個防檢署的副署長講的是沒有錯的嘛依法論法他就是找不到一個強而有力的法源說你就是要給我經過那這個你們趕快去補漏洞啊趕快看要修哪一個法令啊按照你的這個防疫的哪一個法\n\n15:09.269 --> 15:27.837\n就是說因為他是從高風險地區來的你就必須強制的百分之百手減嘛你不能是靠後面最後海關啊海關號驗的也很多啊那你這個已經是高風險就應該是高強度的查驗啊你不允許讓人家去挑戰你的公權力嘛好不好好那你這個多久可以演繹出來因為這是盡快補破網不是\n\n15:32.911 --> 15:58.163\n為什麼用保全就是在機場的其他的檢驗CIQS都有正式人力那沒有給我們正式人力在這個首檢區執行所以支持我們經費用保全的方式來執行這件事情那假設真的要落實納入到我們CIQS的整個的流程裡面那絕對是要正式的人力跟資金投入在這個裡面但以我目前來講是\n\n16:00.771 --> 16:24.464\n是確實是要以有限有的編制上來處理這件事情我要你們把漏洞補起來無論是你要立法百分之百的補這個漏洞由防檢局來做或者是要求變成是財政部的海關你必須做成是第二道防線你們一定要百分之百SOP的通報就你要挑戰我公權我從海關擋你那你這個整個要建置起來啊\n\n16:25.004 --> 16:37.793\n要不然你這個我看得很明顯它就是一個漏洞好不好這個漏洞一定要補起來才不會讓非洲豬人下一次繼續從這邊進來好不好要嚴格的執行謝謝好謝謝我又宣告一下我們到廖偉祥召委宣導結束之後\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.97,"end":22.341,"text":"請時部長因為今天是未還委員會部長來還是不能坐在旁邊我先問部長昨天您跟賴總統有出席一個記者會這個活動裡面特別提到了健康台灣深耕計畫五年要有"},{"start":26.022,"end":35.967,"text":"489億那另外一個你提到了健康幣那本席就要就叫你就是目前這一個健康台灣深耕計畫五年489億請問預算編在哪裡送進來立法院了沒"},{"start":41.009,"end":50.335,"text":"我們是逐年提報這個預算那今年是已經有在這個預算審查已經完成的那明年的那個預算我們也編在115年度的這個預算書裡頭"},{"start":53.479,"end":80.246,"text":"那你的健康币是编在这个深耕台湾计划里面吗不是这个是刚刚提到的那个深耕计划是给相关的这个医院还有诊所区域性的还有这个工会有些工会也得到这个计划所以他们是去做包含这个优化医事人员职业条件包含这个智慧医疗的发展"},{"start":80.946,"end":106.824,"text":"包含人才的培育等等這些所以不包含健康幣嗎不包含行政機關要執行的本席就要就教你你所對外宣布的健康幣明年第一季就要實施但是我們看一下現在的預算不知道你是編在哪一個屬下面因為找不到那之前我們辦公室也有問就說還沒編還沒編明年第一季就要上路"},{"start":107.444,"end":127.57,"text":"跟委員報告是說我們這個健康幣我們主要主管機關做的是那個資訊的這個架構所以不用錢對那以我們以我們本來的科技計畫在執行我們本來就有一些行政的預算在這個你不用新增預算嗎你不是說很好康就是還可以抽腳踏車還有很多的獎沒有"},{"start":128.03,"end":150.362,"text":"那個東西是要跟民間合作的啦所以你意思是健康幣的推動所有的規劃到執行你完全不用新增預算還是在我們本來的預算裡頭去執行那個資訊跟委員報告就是說簡單的講我們會第一個他的那個健康幣的收集是用我們現在的健康存摺"},{"start":151.423,"end":168.8,"text":"去扩充功能所以他等於我們每年都有然後所有的獎項都是廠商捐你們都不用變預算然後我們是跟這個合作第一階段明年是第一階段而已那麼跟業者民間來合作比如說他願意那你明年的第一季預計什麼時候實施"},{"start":170.443,"end":185.159,"text":"现在还在下街当中没有那么快所以计划还不够完整还没有办法完成那你什么时候可以完整本席很想了解你整个健康币的连体之前我们整个的规划就会出来了"},{"start":185.359,"end":208.851,"text":"年底12月嗎那麻煩你這一個整個健康幣的執行的相關的計畫就是要送給這個委員會我們要了解你怎麼執行還有包括你的預算邊緣你剛剛是說不會增加任何新增的計畫因為很快委員會可能就要排預算審查了那你如果沒有這一筆預算的話那你真的就要百分之百去募款了你就沒有這筆錢了"},{"start":209.731,"end":219.278,"text":"我們會來努力用我們本來的預算裡面在科技的部因為這個就是一些科技平台的建立用我們原本的一些預算來所以不新增預算"},{"start":241.212,"end":260.406,"text":"接下來我要問這個防疫的問題今天來的各部會的代表跟那個邊境防疫有關的房檢署還有這個關務署請上台我們可以看到蘇貞昌院長前院長他在非洲豬瘟開始之後呢他其實也發了一篇的臉書"},{"start":261.647,"end":286.086,"text":"那我感覺他是憂心忡忡覺得是不是大家螺絲鬆了所以趕快提醒大家因為他好不容易他當時他最驕傲的政績就是守住把非洲豬瘟擋在境外所以大家都印象深刻這個當時鄰近國家發生非洲豬瘟的時候他跑到他衝到這個陶基然後彪罵了十多分鐘這個我不曉得在座的這個官員有沒有人在現場"},{"start":287.267,"end":309.508,"text":"他就是要求一定要嚴格把關那結果呢現在是邊境破防喔就是讓這一個非洲豬瘟進來了那現在當然就是要檢討就是怎麼樣可以去防堵喔那我給各位看一個網友他PO的這個PO文喔這個是2025年6月23號這個網友呢看起來是個炫耀文他說他從馬來西亞回台灣"},{"start":311.77,"end":334.501,"text":"那他直接一下飛機之後呢他跟這個寫請的保全表明說我不要豬瘟的檢查然後這個保全呢就直接讓他走旁邊出去了一點刁難都沒有他說他本來擔心會被阻擾所以呢還是先什麼手機開好這個防檢署的梭子結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關"},{"start":336.282,"end":363.88,"text":"那他还教大家说下一次从朱温疫区回台湾大家不用当冤大头排队检查手提行李而他引用的是113年12月防检署的副署长徐荣斌受访的时候他说非洲朱温手检站针对高风险国家旅客手检皮包没有强制旅客可以拒绝"},{"start":364.76,"end":388.746,"text":"那這個就是最大的漏洞啊你若從疫區回來的手檢包都不用這個認真檢查然後旅客說我不想被檢查然後就從旁邊出去然後你僱用的就是保全人員你這樣子的一個執行的強度難怪現在非洲豬瘟從邊境就進來了嘛"},{"start":390.126,"end":419.506,"text":"就是這樣子啊我要問各位是那這樣的一個狀況你現在還是這樣子嗎現在非洲諸位已經被發現了就跑到台灣來了你們的邊境還是這麼的鬆散嗎是不是你根本沒有法源沒有強制力所以他的手簡報即使是從這一個高風險疫區回來的只要旅客表明說我不想要被檢查你也沒有法源所以沒有強制力顧的還是只是保全而已是不是這樣"},{"start":420.386,"end":449.245,"text":"報告委員 我覺得這個的可能在現實狀況有些文字上或口語上會有扭曲但以現在來講他一定要經過手檢區所以之前就是有鬆動嘛沒有百分之百嘛手檢區一定有分流分流就是說39個非洲疫區的國家他一定強制性是啊 馬來西亞是不是馬來西亞是 是非洲那他這一個人PO上去他就說他就是馬來西亞回來啊他就不用被手檢了因為他說我不要被手檢了"},{"start":450.746,"end":476.103,"text":"以現在目前來講我覺得這絕對不可能所以回溯這則新聞或者是這一個的報導是不是實在其實還有必要再追查看看有必要再追查 你們自己去問你們的房檢署副署長之前這一位徐副署長其實一直都沒有鬆懈其實7年來都沒有鬆懈那這個是怎麼回事這個是真真實實 人家PO在網路上面講得非常的具體"},{"start":477.083,"end":493.662,"text":"網路常常有自由的言論那你們去查這是不是假消息因為這個已經不是一個人講了喔那這個就是之前你們根本沒有一個法源的情況底下你又沒有強制執行嘛之前蘇貞昌院長在的時候我知道他非常的嚴格所以是百分之百"},{"start":494.443,"end":508.274,"text":"但你們後來就鬆掉了嘛鬆掉之後就變成這樣的情況嘛就是尊重旅客自由意願他是高風險國家你還尊重他個人意願然後說不想檢查就走而且他引用的就是你們自己官員講的話"},{"start":510.055,"end":525.604,"text":"這個你們要好好檢討那你現在到底有沒有法源你是用什麼樣的一個強制性要求他百分之百到位行政命令嗎還是什麼你們之前的副署長是這樣講的沒有強制他是不是找不到法源還是怎麼回事我跟委員報告其實在機場裡面"},{"start":526.311,"end":555.192,"text":"我們的通關檢查是關稅所有的行李不管你是手提或者是托育行李全部都要海關經過但為了非洲豬瘟所以又增加的關卡就是在於海關檢查之前來個手檢區那這個手檢區的目的是如果你經過這裡檢查有遺異或者是豬肉的產品你馬上棄置那這個不會受罰但是如果你到了海關那裡檢查那百分之百一定受罰所以原來的用意上是讓"},{"start":556.433,"end":582.263,"text":"所有的遊客是等於double check你自己再確認看看那如果你有違規的產品那就利用這個時候趕快把它丟棄對 那至於說法院那因為我們的作為都是叫做行政作為那假設需要加強它的法規的一個力度我覺得這個部分我們都適時可以做研討但是在機場的檢驗事實上確實這個它有一定的法規好 那我現在就正式問你"},{"start":583.343,"end":600.513,"text":"在現在你也沒有一個很明確的法源情況底下如果有遊客是從高風險區域回來然後你要檢查他的手簡報他挑戰你說你沒有法源就是我可以拒絕我拒絕你檢查我的手簡報可以或不可以"},{"start":601.453,"end":615.584,"text":"以目前來講 我們都行政勸導希望你能夠通過假設他執意要過 到了海關的檢查被檢出 對不起 就是20萬我們就開立20萬我知道 但是他如果很僥倖海關也不會100%檢查"},{"start":618.632,"end":637.174,"text":"他就僥倖通關了所以你的意思就是說我們現在在前面的這個手減包的部分是真的沒有法源也沒有辦法百分之百強制嗎包括委員我們現在目前的運作是假設這個遊客他拒絕那可能我們就通知末端的海關對這個人要加強"},{"start":638.115,"end":659.157,"text":"我知道所以你現在告訴我是說他是真的沒有法源你們這個副署長也沒有講是行政我們現在都是行政措施所以沒有辦法到非常強制性的那我現在就問你怎麼樣可以做到非常強制性的高風險的民眾回來這個手撿包要百分之百接受檢驗要怎麼樣可以做到"},{"start":659.617,"end":674.836,"text":"如果我們修法相對我們要有正式的人力投入到裡面去所以你們做不到我們現在完全沒有對沒有多餘的人力去做那蘇貞昌時代你們是怎麼做到的就是由這個就是由這個守檢區是那你們那時候會讓遊客是可以說我拒絕嗎"},{"start":677.233,"end":694.622,"text":"如果遇到拒絕的 你們當時是怎麼執行的我剛剛跟委員報告絕多數的遊客都會配合這遇到這種少數要挑戰你公權利的我們就當下都會通知海關的部分針對這個遊客特別關注"},{"start":695.242,"end":715.371,"text":"到海關的時候就要打開這個海關我問一下海關有沒有做到我們財政部的這個關務署這個雙重把關如果他前面他執意現在沒有法源可以要求他強制就是去掃他的手提包到了你的海關他通知你海關就可以百分之百可以攔下來"},{"start":715.951,"end":728.759,"text":"是報告委員就是剛才這邊講的就是手提行李的部分在房檢署這邊是有房檢署這邊去做手檢那有關拖運行李的部分在他上這個行李檢那行李轉盤之前絕對百分之百海關這邊S光檢驗然後如果他有異常的話我們會助檢"},{"start":736.563,"end":753.457,"text":"那住檢旅客領了行李要通過我們的檢查台之前我們就會再過一次X光復檢然後開箱查驗那剛才房檢署這邊提到說如果有拒絕手檢的他們假如有通知假如有通知海關的話海關絕對會去加強然後開箱查驗那之前你們有收到幾件是房檢署通知你們他手檢拒檢然後你們來檢查他的手檢的有幾件"},{"start":766.657,"end":786.478,"text":"這個部分可能我現在沒有資料我們之後再提供 看看我們的機場這邊有沒有收到過這個房間署那房間署呢 你們通報了幾件你們房間署通報幾件要求海關要收檢這個應該不是在我們的"},{"start":790.02,"end":808.627,"text":"這個目標的數據 因為是我們這是當即立即有這樣的狀況就做處理那另外我跟委員報告就是說你們沒有登錄也不知道幾件還是從來根本就沒有通報過沒有連線過這個是因為有加強那就通過那還有一個我們還有一個把關的關卡是在於我們的這個檢疫權"},{"start":811.264,"end":827.12,"text":"檢疫權我知道檢疫權都是在跟海關同一個層級所以現在現在防檢署告訴大家就是說的確你們的這個首檢站他沒有公權力可以要求100%這個旅客你一定要經過這個你們的首檢站把"},{"start":830.883,"end":850.104,"text":"包包打開沒有百分之百的強制按照你的說法就是這樣所以是靠後面的檢疫權或者是你可能未來你再去通知海關要求他打開到目前為止你的確就是沒有一個法源依據要求他必須把皮包打開對不對現在聽起來就是這樣子啊"},{"start":851.105,"end":868.874,"text":"那如果這樣子的話他就是一個漏洞嘛那我要求防檢局你們要盡快把這個漏洞補起來嘛不是說過去是靠蘇貞昌院長因為他很嚴厲他很兇然後要求你們做到然後就趕快去做但是做了這件事情坦白講是沒有法源依據的"},{"start":869.474,"end":885.9,"text":"你們根本不知道他依據什麼來源所以你遇到一個挑戰你公權力的人呢你就沒轍了你真的沒轍委員我還是希望真的這個不能否定因為幾乎所有的都會經過這個手檢區也都會配合做檢查我知道我們現在在檢討漏洞"},{"start":886.4,"end":908.729,"text":"所以當你遇到這一種要挑戰你公權力他硬不給你手檢的時候坦白講你現在就是沒轍嘛你當時的那個防檢署的副署長講的是沒有錯的嘛依法論法他就是找不到一個強而有力的法源說你就是要給我經過那這個你們趕快去補漏洞啊趕快看要修哪一個法令啊按照你的這個防疫的哪一個法"},{"start":909.269,"end":927.837,"text":"就是說因為他是從高風險地區來的你就必須強制的百分之百手減嘛你不能是靠後面最後海關啊海關號驗的也很多啊那你這個已經是高風險就應該是高強度的查驗啊你不允許讓人家去挑戰你的公權力嘛好不好好那你這個多久可以演繹出來因為這是盡快補破網不是"},{"start":932.911,"end":958.163,"text":"為什麼用保全就是在機場的其他的檢驗CIQS都有正式人力那沒有給我們正式人力在這個首檢區執行所以支持我們經費用保全的方式來執行這件事情那假設真的要落實納入到我們CIQS的整個的流程裡面那絕對是要正式的人力跟資金投入在這個裡面但以我目前來講是"},{"start":960.771,"end":984.464,"text":"是確實是要以有限有的編制上來處理這件事情我要你們把漏洞補起來無論是你要立法百分之百的補這個漏洞由防檢局來做或者是要求變成是財政部的海關你必須做成是第二道防線你們一定要百分之百SOP的通報就你要挑戰我公權 我從海關擋你那你這個整個要建置起來啊"},{"start":985.004,"end":997.793,"text":"要不然你這個我看得很明顯它就是一個漏洞好不好這個漏洞一定要補起來才不會讓非洲豬人下一次繼續從這邊進來好不好要嚴格的執行 謝謝好 謝謝我又宣告一下我們到廖偉祥召委宣導結束之後"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":547,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時57分）謝謝主席，我要先請衛福部部長。"],["主席：請石部長。"],["王委員育敏：因為今天是衛環委員會，部長來還是不能坐在旁邊，所以我先問部長，昨天您跟賴總統有出席一個記者會，這個活動裡面特別提到健康臺灣深耕計畫5年要有489億，另外你提到了健康幣，本席要就教你，目前健康臺灣深耕計畫5年489億，請問預算編在哪裡？送進來立法院了沒？"],["石部長崇良：我們是逐年提報預算，今年已經有包含在預算審查已經完成的部分，明年的預算我們也編在115年度的預算書裡頭。"],["王委員育敏：那健康幣是編在這個深耕臺灣計畫裡面嗎？"],["石部長崇良：不是，剛剛提到的深耕計畫是給相關的醫院還有區域性的診所，還有一些工會也會得到這個計畫的補助，他們是去做包含優化醫事人員執業條件、智慧醫療的發展、人才的培育等等，所以那個都不是我們主管機關……"],["王委員育敏：所以不包含健康幣？"],["石部長崇良：不包含行政機關要執行的。"],["王委員育敏：本席要就教你，你對外宣布健康幣明年第一季就要實施，但是我們看一下現在的預算，不知道你是編在哪一個署下面，因為找不到。之前本席辦公室也有問，你們就說還沒編，如果還沒編，為什麼說明年第一季就要上路？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，關於健康幣，主管機關做的主要是資訊的架構，那個……"],["王委員育敏：所以不用錢？不用預算？"],["石部長崇良：那是以我們本來的科技計畫在執行，我們本來就有一些行政的預算在這個……"],["王委員育敏：你不用新增預算嗎？你不是說「很好康」，就是還可以抽腳踏車，還有很多的獎品？"],["石部長崇良：沒有，那些東西是要跟民間合作的，不是我們去編……"],["王委員育敏：所以你的意思是關於健康幣的推動，從所有的規劃到執行完全不用新增預算？"],["石部長崇良：還是在我們本來的預算裡頭去執行，簡單來講，第一個，健康幣的蒐集是用現在的健康存摺去擴充功能而我們每年都有健康存摺的預算。"],["王委員育敏：然後所有的獎項都是廠商捐，你們都不用編預算？"],["石部長崇良：我們是合作，明年是第一階段而已，跟業者、民間來合作，比如說他願意……"],["王委員育敏：你明年的第一季預計什麼時候實施？"],["石部長崇良：現在還在洽接當中，沒有那麼快。"],["王委員育敏：所以計畫還不夠完整？"],["石部長崇良：還沒有辦法完成。"],["王委員育敏：你什麼時候可以完整？本席很想了解整個健康幣的執行。"],["石部長崇良：年底之前我們整個規劃就會出來了。"],["王委員育敏：年底是12月嗎？"],["石部長崇良：對！"],["王委員育敏：好，麻煩你將整個健康幣執行的相關計畫送給委員會，好不好？"],["石部長崇良：會。"],["王委員育敏：我們要了解你怎麼執行，還有包括你的預算編列，你剛剛說不會增加任何新增的計畫，因為委員會可能很快就要排預算審查了，如果沒有這一筆預算的話，那你真的就要百分之百去募款、你就沒有這筆錢。"],["石部長崇良：我們會努力用我們本來在科技部分的預算，因為這個就是一些科技平臺的建立，用我們原本的一些預算來流用使用。"],["王委員育敏：所以不新增預算嘛？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["王委員育敏：但你必須交代是在原來哪些預算，好不好？"],["石部長崇良：對，會！"],["王委員育敏：因為這樣可能會排擠到你原來要做的事情。"],["石部長崇良：再請委員支持我們相關的……"],["王委員育敏：我希望你們交計畫以及你的預算來自於哪裡，這些都要清清楚楚，我們才可以監督、才知道你這個計畫是用口號還是真的可以訴諸行動去實踐，好不好？"],["石部長崇良：是，好！"],["王委員育敏：部長請回。","接下來我要問防疫的問題，今天來的各部會代表跟邊境防疫有關的防檢署還有關務署請上臺。","我們可以看到蘇貞昌前院長在非洲豬瘟開始之後也發了一篇臉書，我感覺他是憂心忡忡、覺得是不是大家螺絲鬆了，所以趕快提醒大家，因為他好不容易、他當時最驕傲的政績就是守住並把非洲豬瘟擋在境外，所以大家都印象深刻！當時鄰近國家發生非洲豬瘟的時候，他衝到桃機飆罵了十多分鐘，我不曉得在座的官員有沒有人在現場，他要求一定要嚴格把關！結果現在是邊境破防讓非洲豬瘟進來了，現在當然就是要檢討怎麼樣可以防堵。","我給各位看一個網友的po文，這個在2025年6月23號，這個網友的文章看起來是個炫耀文，他說他從馬來西亞回臺灣，他一下飛機之後跟協勤的保全表明說，我不要豬瘟的檢查，然後這個保全就直接讓他走旁邊出去了，一點刁難都沒有，他說他本來擔心會被阻撓，所以還事先手機開好防檢署的說詞，結果完全沒有用到就順利的過關，他還教大家說，下一次從豬瘟疫區回臺灣，大家不用當冤大頭、排隊檢查手提行李，而他引用的是113年12月防檢署副署長徐榮彬受訪的時候說，非洲豬瘟手檢站針對高風險國家旅客手檢皮包沒有強制、旅客可以拒絕。","那這個就是最大的漏洞啊，如果從疫區回來的手檢包都不用認真檢查，旅客說我不想被檢查然後就從旁邊出去，你僱用的就是保全人員，你這樣子的執行強度難怪現在非洲豬瘟從邊境就進來了嘛，就是這樣子啊！我要問各位，現在還是這樣子的狀況嗎？現在非洲豬瘟已經被發現了、跑到臺灣來了，你們的邊境還是這麼的鬆散嗎？是不是你根本沒有法源、沒有強制力？所以他的手檢包即使是從高風險疫區回來的，只要旅客表明說我不想要被檢查，你也沒有法源，所以沒有強制力，僱的還只是保全而已，是不是這樣？"],["杜署長麗華：報告委員，我覺得現實狀況可能在文字上或口語上會有些扭曲，但以現在來講，他一定要經過手檢區，而且我們手檢區……"],["王委員育敏：所以之前就是有鬆動，沒有百分之百嘛！"],["杜署長麗華：手檢區一定有分流，分流就是39個非洲豬瘟疫區的國家一定強制性。"],["王委員育敏：是啊，馬來西亞是不是？"],["杜署長麗華：馬來西亞是非洲豬瘟國家。"],["王委員育敏：那這個人po上去，他說他就是從馬來西亞回來，他就不用被手檢，因為他說我不要被手檢。"],["杜署長麗華：以目前來講，我覺得這絕對不可能，所以回溯這個新聞或者是這個報導是不是實在，其實還有必要再追查看看。"],["王委員育敏：有必要再追查，你自己去問你們的防檢署之前這位徐副署長。"],["杜署長麗華：其實一直都沒有鬆懈，其實7年來都沒有鬆懈。"],["王委員育敏：這個是怎麼回事？"],["杜署長麗華：對，我們再進一步的瞭解。"],["王委員育敏：這個是真真實實，人家po在網路上面講得非常的具體。"],["杜署長麗華：網路常常有自由的言論。"],["王委員育敏：你們去查這是不是假消息。"],["杜署長麗華：好，我們去查。"],["王委員育敏：因為這已經不是一個人講了，這就是之前你們在根本沒有法源的情況底下沒有強制執行，之前蘇貞昌院長在的時候，我知道他非常的嚴格。"],["杜署長麗華：是，他非常嚴格。"],["王委員育敏：所以是百分之百，但你們後來就鬆掉了，鬆掉之後就變成這樣的情況，就是尊重旅客自由意願，他是高風險國家，你還尊重他個人意願，然後說不想檢查就走，而且他引用的就是你們自己官員講的話，這個你們要好好檢討。"],["杜署長麗華：好。"],["王委員育敏：你現在到底有沒有法源？你是用什麼樣的強制性要求他百分之百到位，行政命令還是什麼？你們之前的副署長是這樣講的，沒有強制！他是不是找不到法源，還是怎麼回事？"],["杜署長麗華：我跟委員報告，其實在機場裡面，我們的通關檢查是關稅，所有的行李不管是手提或者是托運行李，全部都要經過海關，但為了非洲豬瘟所以又增加了一個關卡，就是在海關檢查之前來一個手檢區，那這個手檢區的目的是，如果你經過這裡檢查有疑義或者是豬肉的產品，你馬上棄置就不會受罰，但是如果你到了海關那裡檢查，那百分之百一定受罰。所以原來的用意是，讓所有的遊客double check自己再確認看看，如果有違規的產品就利用這個時候趕快把它丟棄。至於法源，因為我們的作為都叫做行政作為，假設需要加強法規的力度，我覺得這個部分我們都可以適時做研討，但是在機場的檢驗確實有一定的法規規定。"],["王委員育敏：好，那我現在就正式問你，現在你在一個沒有很明確法源的情況底下，如果有遊客是從高風險區域回來，然後你要檢查他的手檢包，他挑戰你說，你沒有法源、我可以拒絕，我拒絕你檢查我的手檢包，可以或不可以？"],["杜署長麗華：以目前來講，我們都行政勸導，希望民眾能夠通過手檢區。"],["王委員育敏：如果他還是……"],["杜署長麗華：假設他執意要過，到了海關的檢查被檢出，對不起，就是20萬，我們就開立20萬。"],["王委員育敏：我知道，但是他如果很僥倖，海關也不會百分之百檢查，他就僥倖通關了。所以你的意思就是說，我們現在在前面的這個手檢包部分是真的沒有法源、也沒有辦法百分之百強制嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：報告委員，我們現在目前的運作是，假設這個遊客拒絕，那可能我們就通知末端的海關對這個人要加強檢查。"],["王委員育敏：我知道，所以你現在告訴我的是，這是真的沒有法源，你們這個副署長也沒有講錯？"],["杜署長麗華：我們現在都是行政措施。"],["王委員育敏：所以沒有辦法到非常強制性的？我現在就問你，怎麼樣可以做到非常強制性的，高風險民眾回來的這個手檢包要百分之百接受檢驗，要怎麼樣可以做到？"],["杜署長麗華：如果我們修法，相對我們要有正式的人力投入到裡面去。"],["王委員育敏：所以你們做不到？"],["杜署長麗華：對，我們現在完全沒有多餘的人力去做。"],["王委員育敏：那蘇貞昌時代你們是怎麼做到的？"],["杜署長麗華：就是由這個手檢區。"],["王委員育敏：你們那時候會讓遊客可以拒絕嗎？"],["杜署長麗華：我就說我們這個是行政指導。"],["王委員育敏：如果遇到拒絕的，你們當時是怎麼執行的？"],["杜署長麗華：我剛剛跟委員報告，絕大多數的遊客都會配合……"],["王委員育敏：對，遇到這種少數要挑戰你公權力的呢？"],["杜署長麗華：假設少數要這樣，我們當下都會通知海關針對這個遊客特別關注……"],["王委員育敏：到海關的時候就要打開？"],["杜署長麗華：對，一定打開！"],["王委員育敏：海關部分我問一下，海關有沒有做到？財政部關務署，關於雙重把關，如果他前面執意現在沒有法源可以強制要求掃他的手提包，到了你們海關，他通知你，海關就可以百分之百攔下來？"],["蘇副署長淑貞：是，報告委員，關於剛才這邊講的手提行李部分，在防檢署這邊是由防檢署這邊去做手檢；有關托運行李的部分，在它上行李轉盤之前，海關這邊絕對百分之百以X光檢驗，如果它有異常的話，我們會助檢，當旅客領了行李要通過我們的檢查臺之前，我們就會再過一次X光複檢，然後開箱查驗。那剛才防檢署這邊提到說，如果有拒絕手檢的，假如他們有通知海關的話，海關絕對會去加強，然後開箱查驗。"],["王委員育敏：那之前你們有收到幾件是防檢署通知你們他拒絕手檢，然後你們來檢查他的手檢有幾件？"],["蘇副署長淑貞：關於這個部分，我現在沒有資料，我們之後再提供，看看我們機場這邊有沒有收過防檢署這邊的通知……"],["王委員育敏：那防檢署呢？你們通報了幾件？"],["杜署長麗華：是，另外我再跟……"],["王委員育敏：你們防檢署通報幾件？要求海關要手檢的部分。"],["杜署長麗華：不是，這個應該不是在我們目標數據裡，因為這是當即、立即有這樣的狀況我們就做處理。另外，我跟委員報告……"],["王委員育敏：你是說你們沒有登錄也不知道幾件，還是從來根本就沒有通報過、沒有連線過？"],["杜署長麗華：不是，這個是因為有加強，那就通過，我們還有一個把關的關卡是在我們的檢疫犬。"],["王委員育敏：我知道、我知道……"],["杜署長麗華：檢疫犬跟海關都是在同一個層級……"],["王委員育敏：所以現在防檢署告訴大家，的確你們的手檢站沒有公權力可以百分之百要求旅客經過你們的手檢站一定要把包包打開，沒有百分之百的強制，按照你的說法就是這樣，所以你是靠後面的檢疫犬，或者是可能未來你再去通知海關，要求他打開，到目前為止，你的確就是沒有一個法源依據可以要求他必須把皮包打開，對不對？現在聽起來就是這樣子啊！","如果是這樣子的話，它就是一個漏洞嘛，我要求防檢署要儘快把這個漏洞補起來，不是說過去是靠蘇貞昌院長，因為他很嚴厲、他很兇，他要求你們做到，然後你們就趕快去做，但是做的這件事情，坦白講是沒有法源依據的，你們根本不知道要依據什麼來源，所以你遇到一個挑戰你公權力的人，你就沒轍了，真的沒轍。"],["杜署長麗華：委員，我還是希望……真的，這個不能否定，因為幾乎所有的都會經過手檢區，也都會配合做檢查……"],["王委員育敏：我知道，我們現在在檢討漏洞，所以當你遇到這一種要挑戰你公權力，他硬不給你手檢的時候，坦白講，你現在就是沒轍嘛！當時那位防檢署副署長講的是沒有錯的，依法論法，就是找不到一個強而有力的法源說他就是要經過，你們要趕快去補這個漏洞！趕快看要修哪一個法令，按照防疫的哪一個法，因為他是從高風險地區來的，就必須強制百分之百手檢，不能靠最後面的海關啊！海關要驗的也很多，這個已經是高風險，就應該是高強度的查驗，你不能允許人家去挑戰你的公權力嘛，好不好？"],["杜署長麗華：好。"],["王委員育敏：那你多久可以研議出來？儘快補破網。"],["杜署長麗華：不是，為什麼是用保全？就是在機場其他的檢驗、CIQS都有正式的人力，但沒有給我們正式人力在這個手檢區執行，所以支持我們的經費採用保全的方式來執行這件事情，假設真的要落實、納入到我們CIQS整個流程裡面，那絕對是要正式的人力跟資金投入在這裡面，但目前來講，要以現有的編制來處理這件事情，確實需要一點時間。"],["王委員育敏：好，我要你們把漏洞補起來，無論是你要立法，百分之百的補這個漏洞並由防檢署來做，或者是要求財政部的海關必須做成第二道防線，你們一定要百分之百SOP的通報，就是他要挑戰公權力，那就從海關擋他，但這整個要建置起來，不然我看得很明顯，它就是一個漏洞，好不好？這個漏洞一定要補起來，才不會讓非洲豬瘟下一次繼續從這邊進來，好不好？要嚴格的執行，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","委員會宣告一下：到廖偉翔召委詢答結束之後，休息10分鐘。"],["主席（王委員育敏代）：接下來請劉建國委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":486,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","林淑芬","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","楊曜","葉元之","陳瑩","蘇清泉","范雲"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部、財政部、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署\n就「如何精進海外小型包裹夾帶肉品之查緝與防堵，持續強化阻絕疫情於國門，同時優化國內後\n續對於非洲豬瘟防疫」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審查(一)行政院函請審議「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)\n委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員\n魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條\n條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)\n委員李昆澤等27 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十) 委員黃秀芳等21 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三\n十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛\n生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十三) 委員劉建國等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員\n沈發惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文\n修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)\n委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄\n等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 五) 委員林淑芬等21 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸\n等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生\n法部分條文修正草案」案、( 九) 委員蔡易餘等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1149002_00002"}}}