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\"end\": 681.245, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 681.245, \"end\": 681.585, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 681.585, \"end\": 681.725, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"顏\"}, {\"word\": \"寬\"}, {\"word\": \"恆\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 681.725, \"end\": 681.745, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,540 --> 00:00:11,947\n主席在黨委員監禁列席的政府金管組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有央行的朱副總裁請彭主委朱副總裁\n\n2\n00:00:15,059 --> 00:00:32,697\n主委好當然今天有央行的題目先問一個時事的議題就是玉山金併購三商售居然有媒體的標題是說是摸黑交易因為根據我們證交所的相關處理程序重大投資它必須\n\n3\n00:00:34,699 --> 00:00:48,412\n那個要做一個重訓的發布那有人說玉山精英的團隊既然已經去投標去出具有法律約束力的文件那麼如果沒有經過董事會的決議這樣可以嗎金管會的看法怎麼樣\n\n4\n00:00:49,212 --> 00:01:11,943\n我想我們相關的交易他們都是具有他們都非常清楚什麼叫公司治理我想這件事情我們已經責成交易所去主動去了解我剛才有委員詢問這個問題我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告因為這主要是交易所跟他們之間的這樣的契約關係我們一定要請交易所去跟他們做\n\n5\n00:01:12,463 --> 00:01:32,970\n是的我想不只一位委員關心表示這是一個大家都關心的議題所以請金管會一定要慎重處理那當然我們昨天在那個應該前天的記者會也表達這樣看法好謝謝那我們也期待調查後的結果好那麼三商售它的RVC如果沒有達標您覺得我們來推估預算金會溢價收購嗎\n\n6\n00:01:37,506 --> 00:01:52,223\n應該是我覺得我們在做帳務的財報的價值跟他未來持續經營的價值這兩個是有不同的看法我想為什麼每次的收購合併案都有所謂的溢價\n\n7\n00:01:53,124 --> 00:02:14,515\n就是那個持續經營價值的預期大家不同就等於說我們現在看到它的價值是一個所謂的進變現的概念就現在我做一個清償它價值多少但是我繼續經營就像我開一家餐廳我餐廳如果現在馬上清掉了我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢但是我長期經營假設我是個經營能力好的人我看到的價值是不一樣的\n\n8\n00:02:15,543 --> 00:02:38,442\n那但是呢因為正是因為今晚會公布了一個ICS過渡措施所以呢那個三商售他就算是有合格了沒有沒有還沒沒有他就是必須對他以前那個資本的缺口完全不能消失是所以他必須承諾好那未來的接手的人他也必須要\n\n9\n00:02:39,643 --> 00:02:58,148\n蓋瓜承受蓋瓜承受所以這種情況之下願意溢價來併購的跟金管會在ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎我想這個他們是協商的過程金管會是不會介入我想這個是一個市場機制市場機制的判斷我們在這因為我們一定要等他開始他知道他蓋瓜承受了所以他知道心裡有譜\n\n10\n00:02:59,298 --> 00:03:28,040\n他當然再來他送件的時候比如說未來他們有送件的時候正式通過他們的這個所謂公私治理股東民主程序決議通過以後按照我們金控法的規定還有保險法的規定送到金管會我們就來看他這部分的承諾還有這些的內容好謝謝那接下來請您暫時休息一下先不要消耗那請副總裁來問一下聯準會之前啊我就問過總裁不過今天是副總裁來嘛我就問說聯準會的降息跟台股的新高會不會有關聯那時候還沒降喔\n\n11\n00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:36,909\n那現在呢林仁偉呢現在聯儲會降啦那台股又創新高那到底有沒有關係呢是台股的體質好我們的出口產業強勁創新產業強勁是什麼原因\n\n12\n00:03:40,944 --> 00:04:09,345\n有没有关联应该影响的因素很多很多但是如果我们真的台股很好外资会进来买外资很愿意来买对应该是这样但是因为外资大局进入那有人又说那央行的没收的这个汇率的升幅出手没收讲得很重但是我们都认为央行是要持续的因为我们台湾是出口导向那吻会很重要那这个汇率影响程度央行怎么运营\n\n13\n00:04:11,458 --> 00:04:30,248\n我應該這麼講其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定很難預測但是我們看外資他進來買但外資在台股投資獲利很高他還有一個隨時將他的獲利匯出去所以對匯率的影響其實進來買好像是\n\n14\n00:04:36,601 --> 00:04:58,163\n一個方向對他獲利馬上出去是一個方向所以你認為外資的進出台股的市場對於匯率的影響是一部分的不是全部的那央行要持續的穩會這是我們的目標是我們好謝謝來往下看那他穩定幣大家都問穩定幣的貨幣戰那麼美國他是由不具官方\n\n15\n00:04:59,203 --> 00:05:22,404\n不發行官方的穩定幣但是歐盟的看法不同他為了擔心他的清算體系資本流動還有跨境結算全面的美元化所以歐盟是很積極那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場但是歐盟的做法我們台灣有一個數位性台幣CPTC那麼目前CPTC目前央行的規劃\n\n16\n00:05:24,085 --> 00:05:30,327\n用的比較通俗是BtoB沒有用在一般的民間那未來會不會繼續擴大跟歐盟的做法一樣其實這個部分我們現在CBDC是在一個試驗的階段在研擬至於未來應該怎麼樣其實有各種可能性會不會擴大謝局長我聽你講過問一下謝局長他有兩層所以主要他應該是在\n\n17\n00:05:52,556 --> 00:05:57,320\n央行的CPTC上層基本上它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算我們現在談的穩定幣這個部分是一般大眾這是很不一樣所以會不會CPTC擴大到一般當作是一種穩定幣謝局長我之前聽過你的一個介紹謝局長你解釋一下\n\n18\n00:06:15,234 --> 00:06:33,852\n我想就是分兩個一個叫做Retail的給大眾使用的一個是給Wholesale給做清算使用的那目前因為我想我們目前不急迫去發行那個Retail的CBDC主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利所以沒有急迫性所以目前比較急迫是在那個Wholesale做一個清算\n\n19\n00:06:34,292 --> 00:06:51,099\n我馬上問下一題既然你這樣講已經進入了我們穩定幣的監理它有準備資產對不對高價值高品質或高流動性像短期貸券或票券如果不是法幣樣態的是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產美債RWA會這樣嗎會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的來做為穩定幣的資產準備資產\n\n20\n00:07:00,342 --> 00:07:27,190\n目前我們在那個法的規定主要是在給高流動性高安全的這個金融資產美債算不算美債可以啊RWA也可以如果是屬於符合合格的這種有監理的有監管的這種金融資產很好講到了來現在我們要問有監管的來監管會同事會來知道這個事件加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件因為川普宣布了對中國加徵百分之百結果加密通貨就11天哇\n\n21\n00:07:28,719 --> 00:07:54,844\n因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的那這個合成穩定幣它可以買進虛擬資產但是又賣出等值的一個期貨然後有Delta中性對沖後面的運作我們來看一下就是這樣的循環它已經不是用實體資產了那它去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣又繼續買這樣合成資產這樣一直循迴循迴循迴它可以把它受益率推高到四成五成那這樣的合成穩定幣的循環貸有什麼風險\n\n22\n00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:15,809\n我想我們在這次的我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊了不包括這一塊不包括合成穩定幣對是好那這樣我們就往下看了好那麼剛剛我們提到呢對不起往上看對就是合成穩定幣他貶值會造成死亡螺旋這是不是也是因為這樣的關係所以我們金管會不打算開放\n\n23\n00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:31,307\n當時我們在考慮的時候本來這個四大類的穩定幣的形態我們就選擇以法幣做連結以法幣對但是剛剛央行說啦這個美債啦這個我們的這個RWA它也可以考慮啊它是準備資產\n\n24\n00:08:32,327 --> 00:08:49,779\n那是準備資產就是背後比如說我發一個台幣穩定利率我背後的準備資產可以用什麼像USDTUSDC它也不是用美金它是可能用他們短期的美債或是其他的工具就是流動性要高安全性要好好所以這個剛剛央行的問題就是這樣未來\n\n25\n00:08:51,348 --> 00:09:19,309\n是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產您剛剛已經答了如果按照我們的草案通過應該是沒有這個那會不會開放虛擬資產的抵押或循環抵押也就不存在了就是我剛才提到假設未來因為虛擬資產說未來有新的業態的部分我們剛才講我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的可能性有其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務所以未來如果會開放\n\n26\n00:09:20,766 --> 00:09:41,795\n會不會有什麼具體規範那當然每一個新的開放我們都會仔細的思考他所有的應該怎麼規範會非常謹慎來做這件事好那這裡面的就剛講到的RWA技術驗證以具可行性那麼因為你們提到了說金環會已經有一個實驗小組也顯示了具有可行性那麼如果有三個領域一個要趕快有調適法規要有交易平台要跟國際連結\n\n27\n00:09:43,015 --> 00:10:12,755\n那未來如果開放會不會建立第三方的驗證機制來向購買者驗證資產價值我想RWA它比較特別一點其實剛剛有提到有人說其實穩定幣也是某種RWA但是就是說我們現在在那個專法草案裡面我們在定義裡面其實是把RWA排除在外的因為我們是把它另外的當作是因為它是連結到有價證券我們現在還是因為另外一個有價證券的方式在處理所以RWA的部分不會在這裡面除了穩定幣以外\n\n28\n00:10:14,578 --> 00:10:22,369\nRWAE它是一個有實體世界資產的一個它就是一個孿生或是數位原生它的實體因為剛剛吳秉隆也問到了它的實體世界的資產價值重不重要\n\n29\n00:10:28,191 --> 00:10:46,465\n就是RWA它本質上它就是兩個是連動的就是它的分身就是我有一個股票它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率不受時間空間的限制但是這個穩定幣不一樣它倆是有點分離這個還是有點差別只是說它性質是很類似都有一個抵押資產在做一個\n\n30\n00:10:47,425 --> 00:11:03,415\n做一個backup這樣好謝謝最後我們來看一下那麼立法院的法治局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範因為既然是資產它會有交易也會未來有面臨到課稅的問題這個部分今晚會不會跟財政部提出說這個部分財政部是不是要來關心一下\n\n31\n00:11:04,095 --> 00:11:21,745\n這當然我想財政部據我所知他們應該也在做這個研究啦因為這個衝航稅的部分我們不會在專法裡面釐定那財政部應該會根據他的性質跟他交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣的一個稅賦的制度好謝謝主委葉主席暫停我們到這謝謝謝謝中委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1540\t11947\t主席在黨委員監禁列席的政府金管組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有央行的朱副總裁請彭主委朱副總裁\n15059\t32697\t主委好 當然今天有央行的題目先問一個時事的議題就是玉山金併購三商售居然有媒體的標題是說是摸黑交易因為根據我們證交所的相關處理程序重大投資它必須\n34699\t48412\t那個要做一個重訓的發布那有人說玉山精英的團隊既然已經去投標去出具有法律約束力的文件那麼如果沒有經過董事會的決議這樣可以嗎金管會的看法怎麼樣\n49212\t71943\t我想我們相關的交易他們都是具有他們都非常清楚什麼叫公司治理我想這件事情我們已經責成交易所去主動去了解我剛才有委員詢問這個問題我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告因為這主要是交易所跟他們之間的這樣的契約關係我們一定要請交易所去跟他們做\n72463\t92970\t是的我想不只一位委員關心表示這是一個大家都關心的議題所以請金管會一定要慎重處理那當然我們昨天在那個應該前天的記者會也表達這樣看法好謝謝那我們也期待調查後的結果好那麼三商售它的RVC如果沒有達標您覺得我們來推估預算金會溢價收購嗎\n97506\t112223\t應該是我覺得我們在做帳務的財報的價值跟他未來持續經營的價值這兩個是有不同的看法我想為什麼每次的收購合併案都有所謂的溢價\n113124\t134515\t就是那個持續經營價值的預期大家不同就等於說我們現在看到它的價值是一個所謂的進變現的概念就現在我做一個清償它價值多少但是我繼續經營就像我開一家餐廳我餐廳如果現在馬上清掉了我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢但是我長期經營假設我是個經營能力好的人我看到的價值是不一樣的\n135543\t158442\t那但是呢因為正是因為今晚會公布了一個ICS過渡措施所以呢那個三商售他就算是有合格了沒有沒有還沒沒有他就是必須對他以前那個資本的缺口完全不能消失是所以他必須承諾好那未來的接手的人他也必須要\n159643\t178148\t蓋瓜承受蓋瓜承受所以這種情況之下願意溢價來併購的跟金管會在ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎我想這個他們是協商的過程金管會是不會介入我想這個是一個市場機制市場機制的判斷我們在這因為我們一定要等他開始他知道他蓋瓜承受了所以他知道心裡有譜\n179298\t208040\t他當然再來他送件的時候比如說未來他們有送件的時候正式通過他們的這個所謂公私治理股東民主程序決議通過以後按照我們金控法的規定還有保險法的規定送到金管會我們就來看他這部分的承諾還有這些的內容好 謝謝那接下來請您暫時休息一下先不要消耗那請副總裁來問一下聯準會之前啊我就問過總裁不過今天是副總裁來嘛我就問說聯準會的降息跟台股的新高會不會有關聯那時候還沒降喔\n208960\t216909\t那現在呢 林仁偉呢現在 聯儲會降啦那台股又創新高那到底有沒有關係呢是台股的體質好我們的出口產業強勁創新產業強勁 是什麼原因\n220944\t249345\t有没有关联应该影响的因素很多很多但是如果我们真的台股很好外资会进来买外资很愿意来买对 应该是这样但是因为外资大局进入那有人又说那央行的没收的这个汇率的升幅出手没收讲得很重但是我们都认为央行是要持续的因为我们台湾是出口导向那吻会很重要那这个汇率影响程度央行怎么运营\n251458\t270248\t我應該這麼講其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定很難預測但是我們看外資他進來買但外資在台股投資獲利很高他還有一個隨時將他的獲利匯出去所以對匯率的影響其實進來買好像是\n276601\t298163\t一個方向對他獲利馬上出去是一個方向所以你認為外資的進出台股的市場對於匯率的影響是一部分的不是全部的那央行要持續的穩會這是我們的目標是我們好謝謝來往下看那他穩定幣大家都問穩定幣的貨幣戰那麼美國他是由不具官方\n299203\t322404\t不發行官方的穩定幣但是歐盟的看法不同他為了擔心他的清算體系資本流動還有跨境結算全面的美元化所以歐盟是很積極那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場但是歐盟的做法我們台灣有一個數位性台幣CPTC那麼目前CPTC目前央行的規劃\n324085\t330327\t用的比較通俗 是B to B沒有用在一般的民間那未來會不會繼續擴大跟歐盟的做法一樣其實這個部分我們現在CBDC是在一個試驗的階段在研擬 至於未來應該怎麼樣其實有各種可能性會不會擴大 謝局長我聽你講過問一下謝局長他有兩層所以主要他應該是在\n352556\t357320\t央行的CPTC上層基本上它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算我們現在談的穩定幣這個部分是一般大眾這是很不一樣所以會不會CPTC擴大到一般當作是一種穩定幣謝局長我之前聽過你的一個介紹謝局長你解釋一下\n375234\t393852\t我想就是分兩個一個叫做Retail的給大眾使用的一個是給Wholesale給做清算使用的那目前因為我想我們目前不急迫去發行那個Retail的CBDC主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利所以沒有急迫性所以目前比較急迫是在那個Wholesale做一個清算\n394292\t411099\t我馬上問下一題 既然你這樣講已經進入了我們穩定幣的監理它有準備資產對不對高價值 高品質或高流動性像短期貸券或票券如果不是法幣樣態的是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產美債 RWA會這樣嗎會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的來做為穩定幣的資產 準備資產\n420342\t447190\t目前我們在那個法的規定主要是在給高流動性高安全的這個金融資產美債算不算美債可以啊RWA也可以如果是屬於符合合格的這種有監理的有監管的這種金融資產很好 講到了來 現在我們要問有監管的來 監管會同事會來 知道這個事件加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件因為川普宣布了對中國加徵百分之百結果加密通貨就11天 哇\n448719\t474844\t因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的那這個合成穩定幣它可以買進虛擬資產但是又賣出等值的一個期貨然後有Delta中性對沖後面的運作我們來看一下就是這樣的循環它已經不是用實體資產了那它去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣又繼續買這樣合成資產這樣一直循迴循迴循迴它可以把它受益率推高到四成五成那這樣的合成穩定幣的循環貸有什麼風險\n476280\t495809\t我想我們在這次的我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊了不包括這一塊不包括合成穩定幣對是好那這樣我們就往下看了好那麼剛剛我們提到呢對不起往上看對就是合成穩定幣他貶值會造成死亡螺旋這是不是也是因為這樣的關係所以我們金管會不打算開放\n496680\t511307\t當時我們在考慮的時候本來這個四大類的穩定幣的形態我們就選擇以法幣做連結以法幣 對但是剛剛央行說啦這個美債啦這個我們的這個RWA它也可以考慮啊它是準備資產\n512327\t529779\t那是準備資產就是背後比如說我發一個台幣穩定利率我背後的準備資產可以用什麼像USDT USDC它也不是用美金它是可能用他們短期的美債或是其他的工具就是流動性要高安全性要好好所以這個剛剛央行的問題就是這樣未來\n531348\t559309\t是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產您剛剛已經答了如果按照我們的草案通過應該是沒有這個那會不會開放虛擬資產的抵押或循環抵押也就不存在了就是我剛才提到假設未來因為虛擬資產說未來有新的業態的部分我們剛才講我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的可能性有其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務所以未來如果會開放\n560766\t581795\t會不會有什麼具體規範那當然每一個新的開放我們都會仔細的思考他所有的應該怎麼規範會非常謹慎來做這件事好那這裡面的就剛講到的RWA技術驗證以具可行性那麼因為你們提到了說金環會已經有一個實驗小組也顯示了具有可行性那麼如果有三個領域一個要趕快有調適法規要有交易平台要跟國際連結\n583015\t612755\t那未來如果開放會不會建立第三方的驗證機制來向購買者驗證資產價值我想RWA它比較特別一點其實剛剛有提到有人說其實穩定幣也是某種RWA但是就是說我們現在在那個專法草案裡面我們在定義裡面其實是把RWA排除在外的因為我們是把它另外的當作是因為它是連結到有價證券我們現在還是因為另外一個有價證券的方式在處理所以RWA的部分不會在這裡面除了穩定幣以外\n614578\t622369\tRWAE它是一個有實體世界資產的一個它就是一個孿生或是數位原生它的實體因為剛剛吳秉隆也問到了它的實體世界的資產價值重不重要\n628191\t646465\t就是RWA它本質上它就是兩個是連動的就是它的分身就是我有一個股票它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率不受時間空間的限制但是這個穩定幣不一樣它倆是有點分離這個還是有點差別只是說它性質是很類似都有一個抵押資產在做一個\n647425\t663415\t做一個back up這樣好 謝謝最後我們來看一下那麼立法院的法治局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範因為既然是資產它會有交易也會未來有面臨到課稅的問題這個部分今晚會不會跟財政部提出說這個部分財政部是不是要來關心一下\n664095\t681745\t這當然 我想財政部據我所知他們應該也在做這個研究啦因為這個衝航稅的部分我們不會在專法裡面釐定那財政部應該會根據他的性質跟他交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣的一個稅賦的制度好 謝謝主委 葉主席暫停我們到這謝謝謝謝中委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員\n","txt":"主席在黨委員監禁列席的政府金管組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有央行的朱副總裁請彭主委朱副總裁\n主委好 當然今天有央行的題目先問一個時事的議題就是玉山金併購三商售居然有媒體的標題是說是摸黑交易因為根據我們證交所的相關處理程序重大投資它必須\n那個要做一個重訓的發布那有人說玉山精英的團隊既然已經去投標去出具有法律約束力的文件那麼如果沒有經過董事會的決議這樣可以嗎金管會的看法怎麼樣\n我想我們相關的交易他們都是具有他們都非常清楚什麼叫公司治理我想這件事情我們已經責成交易所去主動去了解我剛才有委員詢問這個問題我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告因為這主要是交易所跟他們之間的這樣的契約關係我們一定要請交易所去跟他們做\n是的我想不只一位委員關心表示這是一個大家都關心的議題所以請金管會一定要慎重處理那當然我們昨天在那個應該前天的記者會也表達這樣看法好謝謝那我們也期待調查後的結果好那麼三商售它的RVC如果沒有達標您覺得我們來推估預算金會溢價收購嗎\n應該是我覺得我們在做帳務的財報的價值跟他未來持續經營的價值這兩個是有不同的看法我想為什麼每次的收購合併案都有所謂的溢價\n就是那個持續經營價值的預期大家不同就等於說我們現在看到它的價值是一個所謂的進變現的概念就現在我做一個清償它價值多少但是我繼續經營就像我開一家餐廳我餐廳如果現在馬上清掉了我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢但是我長期經營假設我是個經營能力好的人我看到的價值是不一樣的\n那但是呢因為正是因為今晚會公布了一個ICS過渡措施所以呢那個三商售他就算是有合格了沒有沒有還沒沒有他就是必須對他以前那個資本的缺口完全不能消失是所以他必須承諾好那未來的接手的人他也必須要\n蓋瓜承受蓋瓜承受所以這種情況之下願意溢價來併購的跟金管會在ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎我想這個他們是協商的過程金管會是不會介入我想這個是一個市場機制市場機制的判斷我們在這因為我們一定要等他開始他知道他蓋瓜承受了所以他知道心裡有譜\n他當然再來他送件的時候比如說未來他們有送件的時候正式通過他們的這個所謂公私治理股東民主程序決議通過以後按照我們金控法的規定還有保險法的規定送到金管會我們就來看他這部分的承諾還有這些的內容好 謝謝那接下來請您暫時休息一下先不要消耗那請副總裁來問一下聯準會之前啊我就問過總裁不過今天是副總裁來嘛我就問說聯準會的降息跟台股的新高會不會有關聯那時候還沒降喔\n那現在呢 林仁偉呢現在 聯儲會降啦那台股又創新高那到底有沒有關係呢是台股的體質好我們的出口產業強勁創新產業強勁 是什麼原因\n有没有关联应该影响的因素很多很多但是如果我们真的台股很好外资会进来买外资很愿意来买对 应该是这样但是因为外资大局进入那有人又说那央行的没收的这个汇率的升幅出手没收讲得很重但是我们都认为央行是要持续的因为我们台湾是出口导向那吻会很重要那这个汇率影响程度央行怎么运营\n我應該這麼講其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定很難預測但是我們看外資他進來買但外資在台股投資獲利很高他還有一個隨時將他的獲利匯出去所以對匯率的影響其實進來買好像是\n一個方向對他獲利馬上出去是一個方向所以你認為外資的進出台股的市場對於匯率的影響是一部分的不是全部的那央行要持續的穩會這是我們的目標是我們好謝謝來往下看那他穩定幣大家都問穩定幣的貨幣戰那麼美國他是由不具官方\n不發行官方的穩定幣但是歐盟的看法不同他為了擔心他的清算體系資本流動還有跨境結算全面的美元化所以歐盟是很積極那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場但是歐盟的做法我們台灣有一個數位性台幣CPTC那麼目前CPTC目前央行的規劃\n用的比較通俗 是B to B沒有用在一般的民間那未來會不會繼續擴大跟歐盟的做法一樣其實這個部分我們現在CBDC是在一個試驗的階段在研擬 至於未來應該怎麼樣其實有各種可能性會不會擴大 謝局長我聽你講過問一下謝局長他有兩層所以主要他應該是在\n央行的CPTC上層基本上它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算我們現在談的穩定幣這個部分是一般大眾這是很不一樣所以會不會CPTC擴大到一般當作是一種穩定幣謝局長我之前聽過你的一個介紹謝局長你解釋一下\n我想就是分兩個一個叫做Retail的給大眾使用的一個是給Wholesale給做清算使用的那目前因為我想我們目前不急迫去發行那個Retail的CBDC主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利所以沒有急迫性所以目前比較急迫是在那個Wholesale做一個清算\n我馬上問下一題 既然你這樣講已經進入了我們穩定幣的監理它有準備資產對不對高價值 高品質或高流動性像短期貸券或票券如果不是法幣樣態的是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產美債 RWA會這樣嗎會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的來做為穩定幣的資產 準備資產\n目前我們在那個法的規定主要是在給高流動性高安全的這個金融資產美債算不算美債可以啊RWA也可以如果是屬於符合合格的這種有監理的有監管的這種金融資產很好 講到了來 現在我們要問有監管的來 監管會同事會來 知道這個事件加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件因為川普宣布了對中國加徵百分之百結果加密通貨就11天 哇\n因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的那這個合成穩定幣它可以買進虛擬資產但是又賣出等值的一個期貨然後有Delta中性對沖後面的運作我們來看一下就是這樣的循環它已經不是用實體資產了那它去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣又繼續買這樣合成資產這樣一直循迴循迴循迴它可以把它受益率推高到四成五成那這樣的合成穩定幣的循環貸有什麼風險\n我想我們在這次的我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊了不包括這一塊不包括合成穩定幣對是好那這樣我們就往下看了好那麼剛剛我們提到呢對不起往上看對就是合成穩定幣他貶值會造成死亡螺旋這是不是也是因為這樣的關係所以我們金管會不打算開放\n當時我們在考慮的時候本來這個四大類的穩定幣的形態我們就選擇以法幣做連結以法幣 對但是剛剛央行說啦這個美債啦這個我們的這個RWA它也可以考慮啊它是準備資產\n那是準備資產就是背後比如說我發一個台幣穩定利率我背後的準備資產可以用什麼像USDT USDC它也不是用美金它是可能用他們短期的美債或是其他的工具就是流動性要高安全性要好好所以這個剛剛央行的問題就是這樣未來\n是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產您剛剛已經答了如果按照我們的草案通過應該是沒有這個那會不會開放虛擬資產的抵押或循環抵押也就不存在了就是我剛才提到假設未來因為虛擬資產說未來有新的業態的部分我們剛才講我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的可能性有其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務所以未來如果會開放\n會不會有什麼具體規範那當然每一個新的開放我們都會仔細的思考他所有的應該怎麼規範會非常謹慎來做這件事好那這裡面的就剛講到的RWA技術驗證以具可行性那麼因為你們提到了說金環會已經有一個實驗小組也顯示了具有可行性那麼如果有三個領域一個要趕快有調適法規要有交易平台要跟國際連結\n那未來如果開放會不會建立第三方的驗證機制來向購買者驗證資產價值我想RWA它比較特別一點其實剛剛有提到有人說其實穩定幣也是某種RWA但是就是說我們現在在那個專法草案裡面我們在定義裡面其實是把RWA排除在外的因為我們是把它另外的當作是因為它是連結到有價證券我們現在還是因為另外一個有價證券的方式在處理所以RWA的部分不會在這裡面除了穩定幣以外\nRWAE它是一個有實體世界資產的一個它就是一個孿生或是數位原生它的實體因為剛剛吳秉隆也問到了它的實體世界的資產價值重不重要\n就是RWA它本質上它就是兩個是連動的就是它的分身就是我有一個股票它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率不受時間空間的限制但是這個穩定幣不一樣它倆是有點分離這個還是有點差別只是說它性質是很類似都有一個抵押資產在做一個\n做一個back up這樣好 謝謝最後我們來看一下那麼立法院的法治局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範因為既然是資產它會有交易也會未來有面臨到課稅的問題這個部分今晚會不會跟財政部提出說這個部分財政部是不是要來關心一下\n這當然 我想財政部據我所知他們應該也在做這個研究啦因為這個衝航稅的部分我們不會在專法裡面釐定那財政部應該會根據他的性質跟他交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣的一個稅賦的制度好 謝謝主委 葉主席暫停我們到這謝謝謝謝中委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.540 --> 00:11.947\n主席在黨委員監禁列席的政府金管組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有央行的朱副總裁請彭主委朱副總裁\n\n00:15.059 --> 00:32.697\n主委好當然今天有央行的題目先問一個時事的議題就是玉山金併購三商售居然有媒體的標題是說是摸黑交易因為根據我們證交所的相關處理程序重大投資它必須\n\n00:34.699 --> 00:48.412\n那個要做一個重訓的發布那有人說玉山精英的團隊既然已經去投標去出具有法律約束力的文件那麼如果沒有經過董事會的決議這樣可以嗎金管會的看法怎麼樣\n\n00:49.212 --> 01:11.943\n我想我們相關的交易他們都是具有他們都非常清楚什麼叫公司治理我想這件事情我們已經責成交易所去主動去了解我剛才有委員詢問這個問題我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告因為這主要是交易所跟他們之間的這樣的契約關係我們一定要請交易所去跟他們做\n\n01:12.463 --> 01:32.970\n是的我想不只一位委員關心表示這是一個大家都關心的議題所以請金管會一定要慎重處理那當然我們昨天在那個應該前天的記者會也表達這樣看法好謝謝那我們也期待調查後的結果好那麼三商售它的RVC如果沒有達標您覺得我們來推估預算金會溢價收購嗎\n\n01:37.506 --> 01:52.223\n應該是我覺得我們在做帳務的財報的價值跟他未來持續經營的價值這兩個是有不同的看法我想為什麼每次的收購合併案都有所謂的溢價\n\n01:53.124 --> 02:14.515\n就是那個持續經營價值的預期大家不同就等於說我們現在看到它的價值是一個所謂的進變現的概念就現在我做一個清償它價值多少但是我繼續經營就像我開一家餐廳我餐廳如果現在馬上清掉了我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢但是我長期經營假設我是個經營能力好的人我看到的價值是不一樣的\n\n02:15.543 --> 02:38.442\n那但是呢因為正是因為今晚會公布了一個ICS過渡措施所以呢那個三商售他就算是有合格了沒有沒有還沒沒有他就是必須對他以前那個資本的缺口完全不能消失是所以他必須承諾好那未來的接手的人他也必須要\n\n02:39.643 --> 02:58.148\n蓋瓜承受蓋瓜承受所以這種情況之下願意溢價來併購的跟金管會在ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎我想這個他們是協商的過程金管會是不會介入我想這個是一個市場機制市場機制的判斷我們在這因為我們一定要等他開始他知道他蓋瓜承受了所以他知道心裡有譜\n\n02:59.298 --> 03:28.040\n他當然再來他送件的時候比如說未來他們有送件的時候正式通過他們的這個所謂公私治理股東民主程序決議通過以後按照我們金控法的規定還有保險法的規定送到金管會我們就來看他這部分的承諾還有這些的內容好謝謝那接下來請您暫時休息一下先不要消耗那請副總裁來問一下聯準會之前啊我就問過總裁不過今天是副總裁來嘛我就問說聯準會的降息跟台股的新高會不會有關聯那時候還沒降喔\n\n03:28.960 --> 03:36.909\n那現在呢林仁偉呢現在聯儲會降啦那台股又創新高那到底有沒有關係呢是台股的體質好我們的出口產業強勁創新產業強勁是什麼原因\n\n03:40.944 --> 04:09.345\n有没有关联应该影响的因素很多很多但是如果我们真的台股很好外资会进来买外资很愿意来买对应该是这样但是因为外资大局进入那有人又说那央行的没收的这个汇率的升幅出手没收讲得很重但是我们都认为央行是要持续的因为我们台湾是出口导向那吻会很重要那这个汇率影响程度央行怎么运营\n\n04:11.458 --> 04:30.248\n我應該這麼講其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定很難預測但是我們看外資他進來買但外資在台股投資獲利很高他還有一個隨時將他的獲利匯出去所以對匯率的影響其實進來買好像是\n\n04:36.601 --> 04:58.163\n一個方向對他獲利馬上出去是一個方向所以你認為外資的進出台股的市場對於匯率的影響是一部分的不是全部的那央行要持續的穩會這是我們的目標是我們好謝謝來往下看那他穩定幣大家都問穩定幣的貨幣戰那麼美國他是由不具官方\n\n04:59.203 --> 05:22.404\n不發行官方的穩定幣但是歐盟的看法不同他為了擔心他的清算體系資本流動還有跨境結算全面的美元化所以歐盟是很積極那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場但是歐盟的做法我們台灣有一個數位性台幣CPTC那麼目前CPTC目前央行的規劃\n\n05:24.085 --> 05:30.327\n用的比較通俗是BtoB沒有用在一般的民間那未來會不會繼續擴大跟歐盟的做法一樣其實這個部分我們現在CBDC是在一個試驗的階段在研擬至於未來應該怎麼樣其實有各種可能性會不會擴大謝局長我聽你講過問一下謝局長他有兩層所以主要他應該是在\n\n05:52.556 --> 05:57.320\n央行的CPTC上層基本上它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算我們現在談的穩定幣這個部分是一般大眾這是很不一樣所以會不會CPTC擴大到一般當作是一種穩定幣謝局長我之前聽過你的一個介紹謝局長你解釋一下\n\n06:15.234 --> 06:33.852\n我想就是分兩個一個叫做Retail的給大眾使用的一個是給Wholesale給做清算使用的那目前因為我想我們目前不急迫去發行那個Retail的CBDC主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利所以沒有急迫性所以目前比較急迫是在那個Wholesale做一個清算\n\n06:34.292 --> 06:51.099\n我馬上問下一題既然你這樣講已經進入了我們穩定幣的監理它有準備資產對不對高價值高品質或高流動性像短期貸券或票券如果不是法幣樣態的是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產美債RWA會這樣嗎會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的來做為穩定幣的資產準備資產\n\n07:00.342 --> 07:27.190\n目前我們在那個法的規定主要是在給高流動性高安全的這個金融資產美債算不算美債可以啊RWA也可以如果是屬於符合合格的這種有監理的有監管的這種金融資產很好講到了來現在我們要問有監管的來監管會同事會來知道這個事件加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件因為川普宣布了對中國加徵百分之百結果加密通貨就11天哇\n\n07:28.719 --> 07:54.844\n因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的那這個合成穩定幣它可以買進虛擬資產但是又賣出等值的一個期貨然後有Delta中性對沖後面的運作我們來看一下就是這樣的循環它已經不是用實體資產了那它去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣又繼續買這樣合成資產這樣一直循迴循迴循迴它可以把它受益率推高到四成五成那這樣的合成穩定幣的循環貸有什麼風險\n\n07:56.280 --> 08:15.809\n我想我們在這次的我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊了不包括這一塊不包括合成穩定幣對是好那這樣我們就往下看了好那麼剛剛我們提到呢對不起往上看對就是合成穩定幣他貶值會造成死亡螺旋這是不是也是因為這樣的關係所以我們金管會不打算開放\n\n08:16.680 --> 08:31.307\n當時我們在考慮的時候本來這個四大類的穩定幣的形態我們就選擇以法幣做連結以法幣對但是剛剛央行說啦這個美債啦這個我們的這個RWA它也可以考慮啊它是準備資產\n\n08:32.327 --> 08:49.779\n那是準備資產就是背後比如說我發一個台幣穩定利率我背後的準備資產可以用什麼像USDTUSDC它也不是用美金它是可能用他們短期的美債或是其他的工具就是流動性要高安全性要好好所以這個剛剛央行的問題就是這樣未來\n\n08:51.348 --> 09:19.309\n是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產您剛剛已經答了如果按照我們的草案通過應該是沒有這個那會不會開放虛擬資產的抵押或循環抵押也就不存在了就是我剛才提到假設未來因為虛擬資產說未來有新的業態的部分我們剛才講我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的可能性有其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務所以未來如果會開放\n\n09:20.766 --> 09:41.795\n會不會有什麼具體規範那當然每一個新的開放我們都會仔細的思考他所有的應該怎麼規範會非常謹慎來做這件事好那這裡面的就剛講到的RWA技術驗證以具可行性那麼因為你們提到了說金環會已經有一個實驗小組也顯示了具有可行性那麼如果有三個領域一個要趕快有調適法規要有交易平台要跟國際連結\n\n09:43.015 --> 10:12.755\n那未來如果開放會不會建立第三方的驗證機制來向購買者驗證資產價值我想RWA它比較特別一點其實剛剛有提到有人說其實穩定幣也是某種RWA但是就是說我們現在在那個專法草案裡面我們在定義裡面其實是把RWA排除在外的因為我們是把它另外的當作是因為它是連結到有價證券我們現在還是因為另外一個有價證券的方式在處理所以RWA的部分不會在這裡面除了穩定幣以外\n\n10:14.578 --> 10:22.369\nRWAE它是一個有實體世界資產的一個它就是一個孿生或是數位原生它的實體因為剛剛吳秉隆也問到了它的實體世界的資產價值重不重要\n\n10:28.191 --> 10:46.465\n就是RWA它本質上它就是兩個是連動的就是它的分身就是我有一個股票它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率不受時間空間的限制但是這個穩定幣不一樣它倆是有點分離這個還是有點差別只是說它性質是很類似都有一個抵押資產在做一個\n\n10:47.425 --> 11:03.415\n做一個backup這樣好謝謝最後我們來看一下那麼立法院的法治局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範因為既然是資產它會有交易也會未來有面臨到課稅的問題這個部分今晚會不會跟財政部提出說這個部分財政部是不是要來關心一下\n\n11:04.095 --> 11:21.745\n這當然我想財政部據我所知他們應該也在做這個研究啦因為這個衝航稅的部分我們不會在專法裡面釐定那財政部應該會根據他的性質跟他交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣的一個稅賦的制度好謝謝主委葉主席暫停我們到這謝謝謝謝中委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.54,"end":11.947,"text":"主席在黨委員監禁列席的政府金管組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有央行的朱副總裁請彭主委朱副總裁"},{"start":15.059,"end":32.697,"text":"主委好 當然今天有央行的題目先問一個時事的議題就是玉山金併購三商售居然有媒體的標題是說是摸黑交易因為根據我們證交所的相關處理程序重大投資它必須"},{"start":34.699,"end":48.412,"text":"那個要做一個重訓的發布那有人說玉山精英的團隊既然已經去投標去出具有法律約束力的文件那麼如果沒有經過董事會的決議這樣可以嗎金管會的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":49.212,"end":71.943,"text":"我想我們相關的交易他們都是具有他們都非常清楚什麼叫公司治理我想這件事情我們已經責成交易所去主動去了解我剛才有委員詢問這個問題我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告因為這主要是交易所跟他們之間的這樣的契約關係我們一定要請交易所去跟他們做"},{"start":72.463,"end":92.97,"text":"是的我想不只一位委員關心表示這是一個大家都關心的議題所以請金管會一定要慎重處理那當然我們昨天在那個應該前天的記者會也表達這樣看法好謝謝那我們也期待調查後的結果好那麼三商售它的RVC如果沒有達標您覺得我們來推估預算金會溢價收購嗎"},{"start":97.506,"end":112.223,"text":"應該是我覺得我們在做帳務的財報的價值跟他未來持續經營的價值這兩個是有不同的看法我想為什麼每次的收購合併案都有所謂的溢價"},{"start":113.124,"end":134.515,"text":"就是那個持續經營價值的預期大家不同就等於說我們現在看到它的價值是一個所謂的進變現的概念就現在我做一個清償它價值多少但是我繼續經營就像我開一家餐廳我餐廳如果現在馬上清掉了我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢但是我長期經營假設我是個經營能力好的人我看到的價值是不一樣的"},{"start":135.543,"end":158.442,"text":"那但是呢因為正是因為今晚會公布了一個ICS過渡措施所以呢那個三商售他就算是有合格了沒有沒有還沒沒有他就是必須對他以前那個資本的缺口完全不能消失是所以他必須承諾好那未來的接手的人他也必須要"},{"start":159.643,"end":178.148,"text":"蓋瓜承受蓋瓜承受所以這種情況之下願意溢價來併購的跟金管會在ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎我想這個他們是協商的過程金管會是不會介入我想這個是一個市場機制市場機制的判斷我們在這因為我們一定要等他開始他知道他蓋瓜承受了所以他知道心裡有譜"},{"start":179.298,"end":208.04,"text":"他當然再來他送件的時候比如說未來他們有送件的時候正式通過他們的這個所謂公私治理股東民主程序決議通過以後按照我們金控法的規定還有保險法的規定送到金管會我們就來看他這部分的承諾還有這些的內容好 謝謝那接下來請您暫時休息一下先不要消耗那請副總裁來問一下聯準會之前啊我就問過總裁不過今天是副總裁來嘛我就問說聯準會的降息跟台股的新高會不會有關聯那時候還沒降喔"},{"start":208.96,"end":216.909,"text":"那現在呢 林仁偉呢現在 聯儲會降啦那台股又創新高那到底有沒有關係呢是台股的體質好我們的出口產業強勁創新產業強勁 是什麼原因"},{"start":220.944,"end":249.345,"text":"有没有关联应该影响的因素很多很多但是如果我们真的台股很好外资会进来买外资很愿意来买对 应该是这样但是因为外资大局进入那有人又说那央行的没收的这个汇率的升幅出手没收讲得很重但是我们都认为央行是要持续的因为我们台湾是出口导向那吻会很重要那这个汇率影响程度央行怎么运营"},{"start":251.458,"end":270.248,"text":"我應該這麼講其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定很難預測但是我們看外資他進來買但外資在台股投資獲利很高他還有一個隨時將他的獲利匯出去所以對匯率的影響其實進來買好像是"},{"start":276.601,"end":298.163,"text":"一個方向對他獲利馬上出去是一個方向所以你認為外資的進出台股的市場對於匯率的影響是一部分的不是全部的那央行要持續的穩會這是我們的目標是我們好謝謝來往下看那他穩定幣大家都問穩定幣的貨幣戰那麼美國他是由不具官方"},{"start":299.203,"end":322.404,"text":"不發行官方的穩定幣但是歐盟的看法不同他為了擔心他的清算體系資本流動還有跨境結算全面的美元化所以歐盟是很積極那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場但是歐盟的做法我們台灣有一個數位性台幣CPTC那麼目前CPTC目前央行的規劃"},{"start":324.085,"end":330.327,"text":"用的比較通俗 是B to B沒有用在一般的民間那未來會不會繼續擴大跟歐盟的做法一樣其實這個部分我們現在CBDC是在一個試驗的階段在研擬 至於未來應該怎麼樣其實有各種可能性會不會擴大 謝局長我聽你講過問一下謝局長他有兩層所以主要他應該是在"},{"start":352.556,"end":357.32,"text":"央行的CPTC上層基本上它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算我們現在談的穩定幣這個部分是一般大眾這是很不一樣所以會不會CPTC擴大到一般當作是一種穩定幣謝局長我之前聽過你的一個介紹謝局長你解釋一下"},{"start":375.234,"end":393.852,"text":"我想就是分兩個一個叫做Retail的給大眾使用的一個是給Wholesale給做清算使用的那目前因為我想我們目前不急迫去發行那個Retail的CBDC主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利所以沒有急迫性所以目前比較急迫是在那個Wholesale做一個清算"},{"start":394.292,"end":411.099,"text":"我馬上問下一題 既然你這樣講已經進入了我們穩定幣的監理它有準備資產對不對高價值 高品質或高流動性像短期貸券或票券如果不是法幣樣態的是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產美債 RWA會這樣嗎會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的來做為穩定幣的資產 準備資產"},{"start":420.342,"end":447.19,"text":"目前我們在那個法的規定主要是在給高流動性高安全的這個金融資產美債算不算美債可以啊RWA也可以如果是屬於符合合格的這種有監理的有監管的這種金融資產很好 講到了來 現在我們要問有監管的來 監管會同事會來 知道這個事件加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件因為川普宣布了對中國加徵百分之百結果加密通貨就11天 哇"},{"start":448.719,"end":474.844,"text":"因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的那這個合成穩定幣它可以買進虛擬資產但是又賣出等值的一個期貨然後有Delta中性對沖後面的運作我們來看一下就是這樣的循環它已經不是用實體資產了那它去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣又繼續買這樣合成資產這樣一直循迴循迴循迴它可以把它受益率推高到四成五成那這樣的合成穩定幣的循環貸有什麼風險"},{"start":476.28,"end":495.809,"text":"我想我們在這次的我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊了不包括這一塊不包括合成穩定幣對是好那這樣我們就往下看了好那麼剛剛我們提到呢對不起往上看對就是合成穩定幣他貶值會造成死亡螺旋這是不是也是因為這樣的關係所以我們金管會不打算開放"},{"start":496.68,"end":511.307,"text":"當時我們在考慮的時候本來這個四大類的穩定幣的形態我們就選擇以法幣做連結以法幣 對但是剛剛央行說啦這個美債啦這個我們的這個RWA它也可以考慮啊它是準備資產"},{"start":512.327,"end":529.779,"text":"那是準備資產就是背後比如說我發一個台幣穩定利率我背後的準備資產可以用什麼像USDT USDC它也不是用美金它是可能用他們短期的美債或是其他的工具就是流動性要高安全性要好好所以這個剛剛央行的問題就是這樣未來"},{"start":531.348,"end":559.309,"text":"是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產您剛剛已經答了如果按照我們的草案通過應該是沒有這個那會不會開放虛擬資產的抵押或循環抵押也就不存在了就是我剛才提到假設未來因為虛擬資產說未來有新的業態的部分我們剛才講我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的可能性有其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務所以未來如果會開放"},{"start":560.766,"end":581.795,"text":"會不會有什麼具體規範那當然每一個新的開放我們都會仔細的思考他所有的應該怎麼規範會非常謹慎來做這件事好那這裡面的就剛講到的RWA技術驗證以具可行性那麼因為你們提到了說金環會已經有一個實驗小組也顯示了具有可行性那麼如果有三個領域一個要趕快有調適法規要有交易平台要跟國際連結"},{"start":583.015,"end":612.755,"text":"那未來如果開放會不會建立第三方的驗證機制來向購買者驗證資產價值我想RWA它比較特別一點其實剛剛有提到有人說其實穩定幣也是某種RWA但是就是說我們現在在那個專法草案裡面我們在定義裡面其實是把RWA排除在外的因為我們是把它另外的當作是因為它是連結到有價證券我們現在還是因為另外一個有價證券的方式在處理所以RWA的部分不會在這裡面除了穩定幣以外"},{"start":614.578,"end":622.369,"text":"RWAE它是一個有實體世界資產的一個它就是一個孿生或是數位原生它的實體因為剛剛吳秉隆也問到了它的實體世界的資產價值重不重要"},{"start":628.191,"end":646.465,"text":"就是RWA它本質上它就是兩個是連動的就是它的分身就是我有一個股票它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率不受時間空間的限制但是這個穩定幣不一樣它倆是有點分離這個還是有點差別只是說它性質是很類似都有一個抵押資產在做一個"},{"start":647.425,"end":663.415,"text":"做一個back up這樣好 謝謝最後我們來看一下那麼立法院的法治局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範因為既然是資產它會有交易也會未來有面臨到課稅的問題這個部分今晚會不會跟財政部提出說這個部分財政部是不是要來關心一下"},{"start":664.095,"end":681.745,"text":"這當然 我想財政部據我所知他們應該也在做這個研究啦因為這個衝航稅的部分我們不會在專法裡面釐定那財政部應該會根據他的性質跟他交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣的一個稅賦的制度好 謝謝主委 葉主席暫停我們到這謝謝謝謝中委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":454,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時19分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請金管會彭主委，還有央行朱副總裁。"],["主席：請彭主委、朱副總裁。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委好。當然，今天有央行的題目，先問一個時事議題，就是玉山金併購三商壽，居然有媒體的標題說是摸黑交易，因為根據證交所的處理程序，重大投資必須要做重訊發布。有人說玉山金的團隊既然已經投標，出具了一個具有法律約束力的文件，如果沒有經過董事會的決議，這樣可以嗎？金管會的看法怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想相關的交易都是具有……他們都非常清楚什麼叫做公司治理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這件事情我們已經責成交易所主動去了解，剛剛也有委員詢問這個問題，我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告。因為這個主要是交易所跟他們之間的契約關係，我們一定會請交易所去跟他們做些了解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，我想不只一位委員關心，表示這是一個大家都關心的議題，所以請金管會一定要慎重處理，好嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，我們在前天的記者會也表達這樣的看法。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝，我們期待調查後的結果。三商壽的RBC如果沒有達標，我們來推估，玉山金會溢價收購嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我覺得我們在做帳務財報的價值，跟它未來持續經營的價值，這兩個是有不同的看法，為什麼每次收購合併案都有所謂的溢價？就是大家對於持續經營價值的預期不同。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：等於說我們現在看到它的價值是所謂淨變現的概念，就是現在我做一個清償，它價值多少，就像我開一家餐廳，餐廳如果現在馬上清掉，我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢，但是我長期經營，假設我是個經營能力好的人，我看到的價值是不一樣的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但正是因為金管會公布了一個ICS過渡措施，所以三商壽就算是合格了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有、沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還沒？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，它必須對以前那個資本缺口完全不能消失。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，所以它必須承諾，未來接手的人也必須要概括承受。"],["彭主任委員金隆：概括承受。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以在這種情況之下，願意溢價來併購的，跟金管會的ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們協商的過程，金管會是不會介入的，我想這是一個市場機制。"],["鍾委員佳濱：由他們去判斷？"],["彭主任委員金隆：市場機制的判斷，因為我們一定要等它開始……"],["鍾委員佳濱：它知道要概括承受了，所以它心裡有譜？"],["彭主任委員金隆：比如說未來他們有送件的時候，正式透過他們的公司治理股東民主程序決議通過以後，按照金控法還有保險法的規定送到金管會，我們就會來看它這部分的承諾，還有這些內容。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。接下來請你暫時休息一下，請副總裁。","來問一下聯準會，之前我就問過總裁，不過今天是副總裁來，我問說聯準會的降息跟臺股的新高會不會有關聯？那時候還沒降，現在聯準會降了，你認為臺股又創新高，到底有沒有關係呢？是臺股的體質好，我們的出口產業強勁、創新產業強勁？是什麼原因？有沒有關聯？"],["朱副總裁美麗：應該影響的因素很多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很多？"],["朱副總裁美麗：但是如果我們臺股真的很好，外資會進來買。"],["鍾委員佳濱：體質很好，外資很願意來買？"],["朱副總裁美麗：對，應該是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是因為外資大舉進入，有人又說了，央行出手沒收了匯率的升幅，「出手沒收」，講得很重，但是我們認為央行是要持續的，因為我們臺灣是出口導向，穩匯很重要，這個匯率影響程度央行怎麼因應？"],["朱副總裁美麗：我應該這麼講，其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定，很難預測，但是我們看外資進來買，它在臺股投資獲利很高，還可以隨時會將它的獲利匯出去。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是。"],["朱副總裁美麗：所以對匯率的影響，其實進來買好像是一個方向。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["朱副總裁美麗：它獲利馬上匯出去是另一個方向，可能抵消掉。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以你認為外資進出臺股的市場，對於匯率的影響是一部分，不是全部。"],["朱副總裁美麗：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但央行要持續的穩匯，這是你們的目標？"],["朱副總裁美麗：是我們的目標。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。來，往下看，大家來看穩定幣，大家都在問穩定幣的貨幣戰，美國是不發行官方的穩定幣，但是歐盟的看法不同，它擔心它的清算體系、資本流動，還有跨境結算全面美元化，所以歐盟很積極。那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場，但是歐盟的作法……我們臺灣有一個數位新臺幣（CBDC），目前CBDC在央行的規劃用一個比較通俗化的說法是B2B，沒有用在一般的民間，未來會不會繼續擴大，跟歐盟的作法一樣？"],["朱副總裁美麗：其實CBDC這個部分，我們現在是在一個試驗的階段、在研擬，至於未來應該怎麼樣，其實有各種可能性。"],["鍾委員佳濱：會不會擴大？謝局長，我聽你講過……"],["朱副總裁美麗：但是最基本的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：問一下謝局長好了。"],["朱副總裁美麗：但是它有兩層，最主要它應該是在上層，央行的CBDC是上層。基本上，它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算。"],["鍾委員佳濱：下層。"],["朱副總裁美麗：我們現在談穩定幣的這個部分是一般大眾使用的，這是很不一樣的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以會不會CBDC擴大到一般大眾，當作是一種穩定幣？謝局長，我之前聽過你的介紹，謝局長來解釋一下。"],["謝局長鳳瑛：我想就是分兩個，一個叫做retail，給大眾使用的；一個是給wholesale，給做清算使用的。我想我們目前不急迫去發行retail的CBDC，主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利，所以沒有急迫性，目前比較急迫是在wholesale做清算。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我馬上問下一題，既然你這樣講，已經進入了。我們穩定幣的監理，它有準備資產，對不對？高價值、高品質或高流動性，像短期債券或票券，如果不是法幣樣態的，是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產？美債？RWA？會這樣嗎？會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的作為穩定幣的準備資產？"],["謝局長鳳瑛：目前我們在那個法的規定，主要還是以高流動性、高安全的金融市場為主。"],["鍾委員佳濱：美債算不算？"],["謝局長鳳瑛：美債可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：RWA也可以？"],["謝局長鳳瑛：如果是屬於符合或合格的這種有監理的、有監管的金融資產……"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，講到了。現在我們要問有監管的，來，金管會彭主委，知不知道這個事件？加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件，因為川普宣布了對中國加徵100%新關稅，結果加密通貨11日……因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的，這個合成穩定幣可以買進虛擬資產，但是又賣出等值的期貨，然後有Delta中性對沖。我們來看一下後面的運作，就是這樣的循環，它已經不是用實體資產了，去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣，又繼續買這樣的合成資產，這樣一直循環、循環、循環，它可以把收益率推高到四成、五成，這樣的合成穩定幣循環貸有什麼風險？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這次我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不包括這一塊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不包括合成穩定幣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，這樣我們就往下看。合成穩定幣貶值會造成死亡螺旋，是不是也是因為這樣的關係，所以金管會不打算開放？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當時我們在考慮的時候，本來這四大類的穩定幣型態，我們就選擇以法幣做連結。"],["鍾委員佳濱：以法幣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是剛剛央行說了，美債、我們的RWA也可以考慮。"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，它是準備資產。"],["鍾委員佳濱：它是準備資產？"],["彭主任委員金隆：比如說我發一個臺幣穩定幣，我背後的準備資產可以用……"],["鍾委員佳濱：OK。"],["彭主任委員金隆：像USDT、USDC也不是用美金，它可能是用他們短期的美債，或是其他的工具，就是流動性要高、安全性要好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以剛剛央行的問題就是這樣。未來是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產？您剛剛已經答了嘛。"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果按照我們的草案通過，應該是沒有這個。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有這個？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那會不會開放虛擬資產抵押或循環抵押，也就不存在了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：就是我剛才提到，假設未來虛擬資產有新的業態，我剛才講，我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的彈性。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，有其他經主管機關同意的虛擬資產業務。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以未來如果開放，會不會有什麼具體規範？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，每一個新的開放，我們都會仔細地思考它應該要怎麼規範，會非常謹慎來做這件事。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，這裡面就是剛剛講到的RWA技術驗證已具可行性。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為你們提到金管會已經有一個實驗小組，也顯示具有可行性，有三個領域，分別要趕快調適法規、要建置交易平臺、要跟國際連結。未來如果開放，會不會建立第三方驗證機制，來向購買者驗證資產價值？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想RWA比較特別一點，其實剛剛有提到，有人說穩定幣也是某種RWA，但是我們現在在專法草案的定義裡面其實把RWA排除在外，因為我們是把它另外的當作……比如因為它是連結到有價證券，我們現在還是用另外一個有價證券的方式在處理，所以剛才講RWA的部分不會在這裡面，除了穩定幣以外。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，因為RWA是一個有實體世界資產的……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，它就是一個孿生，或是數位原生……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，因為剛剛吳秉叡委員有問到了，它的實體世界資產價值重不重要？"],["彭主任委員金隆：RWA本質上兩個就是連動的，就是它的分身嘛！就是我有一個股票……它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率，不受時間、空間的限制，但是這個穩定幣不一樣，兩個是有點分離，這個還是有點差別，只是說它性質是很類似，都有個抵押資產在做一個backup。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。最後我們來看一下，立法院的法制局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範，既然是資產，它會有交易，未來也會面臨課稅的問題，就這個部分，金管會會不會跟財政部提，請它是不是也要來關心一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這當然，據我所知財政部應該也在做這個研究，因為通常稅的部分，我們不會在專法裡面釐定，財政部應該會根據它性質跟交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣稅賦的制度。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝主委，因為主席站起來了，我們就到這裡，謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員。","接下來我們請顏寬恒委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-5","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","吳秉叡","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","王世堅","葛如鈞","吳宗憲","羅明才","王鴻薇","林思銘","李彥秀","林楚茵"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、中央銀行、法務部、內政部警政署就「虛擬資產服務\n法草案及其相關子法修訂暨建立完善監理架構之進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00011"}}}