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0.0}]}, {\"start\": 204.48, \"end\": 217.183, \"text\": \"好所以我們沒有打算要這個召回駐美代表于大雷大使沒有目前沒有好那好謝謝那這個部長可以先請回我先請一下這個陸委會跟經濟部好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 204.48, \"end\": 205.2, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 205.2, \"end\": 205.32, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 205.32, \"end\": 205.42, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 205.42, \"end\": 205.66, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 205.66, \"end\": 205.76, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 205.76, \"end\": 205.92, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 205.92, \"end\": 206.16, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 206.16, \"end\": 206.38, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 206.38, \"end\": 206.961, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 206.961, \"end\": 207.261, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 207.261, \"end\": 207.701, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"駐\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 207.701, \"end\": 207.841, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 207.841, \"end\": 207.981, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 207.981, \"end\": 208.201, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"于\", \"start\": 208.201, \"end\": 208.321, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 208.321, \"end\": 208.481, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"雷\", \"start\": 208.481, \"end\": 208.721, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 208.721, \"end\": 208.921, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 208.921, \"end\": 209.381, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 209.381, \"end\": 209.481, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 209.481, \"end\": 210.341, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 210.341, \"end\": 210.481, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 210.481, \"end\": 210.621, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 210.621, \"end\": 210.762, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 215.923, \"end\": 215.963, \"score\": 0.505}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 215.963, \"end\": 216.623, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 216.623, \"end\": 216.903, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 216.903, \"end\": 217.043, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 217.043, \"end\": 217.163, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 217.163, \"end\": 217.183, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 226.119, \"end\": 250.772, \"text\": \"那這個兩位好那這個最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院的這個這個質詢備詢的過程當中那有談到這個我們先請教經濟部有談到就是呢淘寶跟拼多多兩個平台這個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣這個落地公司的話要取消要取消他們的這個平台\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 226.119, \"end\": 226.779, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 226.779, \"end\": 226.94, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 226.94, 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0.922}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"泰\", \"start\": 231.102, \"end\": 231.322, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 231.322, \"end\": 232.082, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 232.082, \"end\": 232.402, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 232.402, \"end\": 232.622, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 232.622, \"end\": 232.923, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 232.923, \"end\": 235.604, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 235.604, \"end\": 235.884, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 235.884, \"end\": 236.364, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 236.364, \"end\": 236.865, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 236.865, \"end\": 236.965, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": 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\"start\": 775.204, \"end\": 775.344, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 775.344, \"end\": 775.444, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 775.444, \"end\": 775.464, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 775.464, \"end\": 775.484, \"score\": 0.222}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,493 --> 00:00:03,157\n謝謝主席我們先請林佳龍林部長來部長請\n\n2\n00:00:13,283 --> 00:00:41,265\n部長好我想今天大家都關注的是川習會的會面在我們開會的與此同時川普跟習近平也已經有公開的會面然後也在幕僚的陪伴之下有了一個基本的對話當然記者的這些喊話他們都是講說彼此之間有很好的關係一直都有很好的關係然後大概就是簡單的問候\n\n3\n00:00:43,686 --> 00:01:10,659\n但是有幾件事情想要跟您詢問因為今天的新聞有一些消息人士表示我相信這個消息人士可能都是在美國這邊行走的記者他們的說法可能會對可能不會對我沒有辦法把握但是我們還是得來詢問我們的外交部林部長對消息人士他們所說的一些回應\n\n4\n00:01:11,599 --> 00:01:28,227\n那麼呢可能這個我沒有自己的想法我沒有說這個消息人士講一定是對的因為他沒有具名但是在這麼關鍵的時刻我想我還是得提出來那這個是在CNN他的這個報導裡面呢他就講到就是說呢\n\n5\n00:01:28,667 --> 00:01:50,632\n尽管美方的资深官员相信川普不会在会谈当中被破表态反对台湾独立但是川普拒绝排除台湾可能被牵扯进美中贸易谈判的可能性台北方面正担心美方的支持是否动摇这是第一点我先把这个问题都讲完一次再请您回复\n\n6\n00:01:51,272 --> 00:02:13,439\n那呢這個所謂消息人士表示台灣正積極重新評估如何爭取川普政府站在自己這一方那面對的這個美中的雙重壓力那賴總統這個承諾包含是國防支出等等喔那可能不會成為頭條新聞但是會影響美台的關係那其中一個我覺得比較需要請教您的就是\n\n7\n00:02:14,059 --> 00:02:34,820\n其中一項考量是召回現任駐美代表余大雷改派一位更具有政治手腕的外交官部分川普官員私下表示雖然余大雷獲得部分的白宮人士支持但是這位職業外交官欠缺於川普圈子有效互動的政治能量\n\n8\n00:02:35,541 --> 00:02:55,518\n那我想要先請這個部長幫我們說明一下有關於CNN剛剛的這個報導還有呢這個台美之間的關係在川習會的這個互動之後我們的掌握是如何那進一步的是跟您比較更有關係的就是說我們的駐美大使駐美代表會不會更換人選\n\n9\n00:02:57,333 --> 00:03:22,866\n包括委員台美政府之間的溝通管道很暢通而且也很順利在進行因為針對最近這幾件包括APEC或川習會等至於說委員提到的我們駐美的人士我們並沒有啟動任何要調整的程序目前因為美術的功能也發揮得很好\n\n10\n00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:37,183\n好所以我們沒有打算要這個召回駐美代表于大雷大使沒有目前沒有好那好謝謝那這個部長可以先請回我先請一下這個陸委會跟經濟部好\n\n11\n00:03:46,119 --> 00:04:10,772\n那這個兩位好那這個最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院的這個這個質詢備詢的過程當中那有談到這個我們先請教經濟部有談到就是呢淘寶跟拼多多兩個平台這個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣這個落地公司的話要取消要取消他們的這個平台\n\n12\n00:04:11,292 --> 00:04:31,189\n那請問一下經濟部這邊昨天呢就有提到就是說呢我們沒有電商的這個相關的這個選項那我想問一下在這種情況之下依照院長的只是多久會做出那撤銷淘寶以及拼多多在台灣的這個電商平台的APP的決定\n\n13\n00:04:33,286 --> 00:04:56,832\n委員好那針對這個部分我們國際貿易署主要是在跨境這個部分加強跟海關那邊在加強查緝的這個部分沒有我們要問查緝的事情這個是另外一個問題我問的是院長所說的要下架淘寶跟拼多多如果他們沒有在期限之內在台灣落地那這個期限是多久\n\n14\n00:04:57,452 --> 00:05:20,392\n然後呢什麼時候如果沒有完成你們要把淘寶跟拼多多平台關掉有沒有按照院長的指示再進行報告委員我們這個部分我們會吸回再跟我們部內的相關的單位來做所以我們的行政院長卓榮泰在備詢之後沒有跟你們再進一步提到這件事情沒有再進一步的做要求沒有進一步的再提供時間點\n\n15\n00:05:22,923 --> 00:05:47,544\n這個部分我在跟我們部裡面的相關單位在做進一步的確認好所以就是沒有打算要回我就對了還是你不知道不知道就說不知道這個部分我沒有掌握好不知道就算了那我們問一下陸委會就是呢關於這個淘寶跟拼多多這些電商平台那呢現在就被認為說呢這個如果沒有落地的話然後要請他們離開我想要問一下這個陸委會對這個事情的態度是什麼呀\n\n16\n00:05:48,537 --> 00:06:13,140\n謝謝委員我想我們有兩個重要的原則第一個現在境外的這個豬肉包含中國大陸在內我們還是不允許絕對不會允許任何形式的這個進口誰說允許啦對所以我是跟委員報告我們對這個原則沒有人說允許那你報告這要幹嘛那請問你可以在淘寶我問嘛你可以在淘寶跟拼多多上面買到豬肉製品然後寄到台灣嗎臨時陸委恢復主委應該清楚吧\n\n17\n00:06:13,817 --> 00:06:42,717\n可以嗎至少我個人是沒有這樣的經驗不是你個人的問題啊是你們有沒有去研究可不可以的問題啊是不可以的對嘛是不可以那不可以就不可以嘛不可以的話那就沒有辦法進來嘛沒有辦法進來的話查驗也不是你陸委會的事情也是人家這個EZ位的事嘛那請問一下我問的問題是陸委會對於這些電商平台若沒有進到台灣做公司的話那就要被取消電商平台這件事情陸委會的看法是什麼\n\n18\n00:06:43,308 --> 00:06:49,832\n我們會跟那個速發部經濟部進一步的去研擬相關的法令規定所以你們是朝向院長所說的方向就是可能要把這兩個雙平台關掉是這個意思嗎大的方針來講是這樣但細密還是要研擬那另外您剛剛講到說最近這個有一些什麼投書啊什麼異常帳號啊然後什麼認知作戰我想問一下您自己是學者出身的您覺得\n\n19\n00:07:07,724 --> 00:07:15,791\n這個美國智庫蘭德公司他有特定的比較親中的政黨政治傾向或者是這個類似這樣的情況嗎美國的蘭德公司\n\n20\n00:07:18,638 --> 00:07:47,898\n其實個別的智庫或者是個別的學者他們的立場我們是不予評論啦你不予評論那剛剛又說這個投書到這個時代雜誌的然後呢就人家就親中那有的人你就可以評論有的人就不能評論那就是說講賴清德不好的就要可以評論沒有特別去提到就不能評論是這樣嗎有的問題是說你作為一個過去是學者你應該知道蘭德公司這家智庫是相當悠久的那我問你他對於所謂的中國大陸他有沒有特別親中的情況\n\n21\n00:07:48,938 --> 00:08:11,309\n那你不會不了解吧你的看法是什麼陸委會的見解是什麼其實以智庫本身或者是以特定學者本身他們的立場當然都有可能會隨著時局的變化有一些調整所以委員您剛所提到的那您提的應該不會是他們發布的這個報告上面會有這個認知作戰的這個問題或者是說他們是因為現在這個川習會之前所以刻意的透過這些報導報告然後再來影響這個台灣或者是台灣的民眾吧\n\n22\n00:08:17,532 --> 00:08:29,976\n上面有三位這個政治科學家也是學者的名字喔您可以看一下如果您覺得哪一位是您想要評論說他是親中的所以他講的這個話不實在請現在就告訴我上面有名字您看一下投影片有嗎你看啊\n\n23\n00:08:37,307 --> 00:08:53,128\nOK這個其實我還是要再次的強調啦我們不對特定的美國的學者跟智庫有啊你剛剛就已經對特定的智庫跟學者你已經發表了一些了呀我可以發言一下嗎你已經一直在發言我並沒有阻擋的發言啊好謝謝喔那可以讓我稍微說明一下下\n\n24\n00:08:53,809 --> 00:09:07,321\n那我們的意思是說美國的智庫或美國的學者發表他們的看法然後有可能會被異常的帳號我剛回覆的是這一塊我回覆的主要的重點是在於會被特定的帳號渲染並且過度的延伸的解釋怎麼樣叫做過度的延伸解釋啊\n\n25\n00:09:10,484 --> 00:09:31,715\n那人家就是有如果說這個智庫的學者就是有投書到時代雜誌然後他就是有說賴清的總統是regulus然後有人去把這樣子的一個新聞甚至一開始是中央社寫的然後呢去轉貼了這個中央社的報導之後就被你們說成是好像呢這個是是這個異常賬號等等的這個我覺得不實際啊我今天要討論的是蘭德公司的這篇新聞啊\n\n26\n00:09:32,515 --> 00:09:47,186\n就是這個報告那裡面他提到的這幾個我覺得比較嚴重的部分在於說他談到了他們的建議是這邊英文中文我都把它拉出來避免你沒有說什麼斷章取義之類的沒有\n\n27\n00:09:48,307 --> 00:10:16,528\n他講說呢美國跟中國應該要建立一個互信的訊號那主要他提到具體案例是美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸永久分離也不反對和平統一中國可以重申和平統一是首選途徑闡述可行且具說服力的實際方式並明確表示動武警在反分裂國家法所規定的最極端情況下才會被視為選項請問一下陸委會對於蘭德公司這樣子的一個建議\n\n28\n00:10:17,188 --> 00:10:39,278\n你們的態度是站在肯定的角色還是你覺得跟你們現狀希望推進的方向是不一樣的我們陸委會還是主張中華民國的主權不是拿來被交易的並且中華民國和中華人民共和國互不隸屬也是客觀事實所以關於蘭德公司或者是任何的智庫任何的學者發表的言論對於美國方面的建議我們都予以尊重那我們也會予以平息\n\n29\n00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:59,601\n你予以尊重歸予以尊重啊那人家的說法跟你我現在問的是說他現在的這樣子的一個對美的建議的說法跟目前我們陸委會好我們的這個對美台包含是台灣自己本身的方向是一致的還是不一致的我沒有叫你評論是個人他\n\n30\n00:11:01,262 --> 00:11:17,757\n就是方向是否一致嘛就是我們現在台灣立委會這邊是否認為美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸選友分離然後不反對和平統一以及中國大陸他可以做這些說法還有下一頁對不起主席給我一點點時間把它講完不然等一下說我們只講一半\n\n31\n00:11:20,419 --> 00:11:36,701\n那它裡面喔這都是關於八頁吧七頁左右提到跟台灣有關的更大膽的選項美國呢因為它有這個提供我們軍事支持所以呢它這個可以有一定的影響力限制以及可能破壞美國主張的現狀的行為\n\n32\n00:11:37,802 --> 00:12:00,542\n我要問的事情不是說你對這篇報告的評論我要問的問題是我們現在陸委會的整體對兩岸之間的方向跟這篇文章提到的方向是一致的或是不一致的有部分的內容是一致的堅持和平的這一塊那哪一部分是不一致的可以再回到前一頁嗎\n\n33\n00:12:03,636 --> 00:12:31,679\n比如說就是美國聲明他不支持台灣獨立這個部分我們就只能予以尊重但是不見得是我們國會的主張那這個一不反對和平同意呢這也是一樣就是說這個我們尊重所以你講清楚嘛你要不要一次把它講完就是說哪一些你們是尊重但是不同意不見得是一樣的方向我這樣講比較柔性那哪一些是你們本身就覺得我們這政策上面跟他的建議主張是一樣的方向\n\n34\n00:12:32,253 --> 00:12:55,484\n因為這有一些是假設性問題啦就是說兩岸是不是永久分離喔或者說統一的這個方式用和平的方式還是用其他的方式所以這裡面對於陸委會來講的話那我們對於是不是要永久分離來說這不是我們現在政策要討論的這個主軸那維持現狀還有中華民國中華人民共和國互不隸屬這才是我們目前陸委會在兩岸政策上面的一個基調好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝委員各位請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1493\t3157\t謝謝主席 我們先請林佳龍 林部長來 部長請\n13283\t41265\t部長好我想今天大家都關注的是川習會的會面在我們開會的與此同時川普跟習近平也已經有公開的會面然後也在幕僚的陪伴之下有了一個基本的對話當然記者的這些喊話他們都是講說彼此之間有很好的關係一直都有很好的關係然後大概就是簡單的問候\n43686\t70659\t但是有幾件事情想要跟您詢問因為今天的新聞有一些消息人士表示我相信這個消息人士可能都是在美國這邊行走的記者他們的說法可能會對 可能不會對我沒有辦法把握但是我們還是得來詢問我們的外交部林部長對消息人士他們所說的一些回應\n71599\t88227\t那麼呢可能這個我沒有自己的想法我沒有說這個消息人士講一定是對的因為他沒有具名但是在這麼關鍵的時刻我想我還是得提出來那這個是在CNN他的這個報導裡面呢他就講到就是說呢\n88667\t110632\t尽管美方的资深官员相信川普不会在会谈当中被破表态反对台湾独立但是川普拒绝排除台湾可能被牵扯进美中贸易谈判的可能性台北方面正担心美方的支持是否动摇这是第一点我先把这个问题都讲完一次再请您回复\n111272\t133439\t那呢這個所謂消息人士表示台灣正積極重新評估如何爭取川普政府站在自己這一方那面對的這個美中的雙重壓力那賴總統這個承諾包含是國防支出等等喔那可能不會成為頭條新聞但是會影響美台的關係那其中一個我覺得比較需要請教您的就是\n134059\t154820\t其中一項考量是 召回現任駐美代表余大雷改派一位更具有政治手腕的外交官部分川普官員私下表示雖然余大雷獲得部分的白宮人士支持但是這位職業外交官欠缺於川普圈子有效互動的政治能量\n155541\t175518\t那我想要先請這個部長幫我們說明一下有關於CNN剛剛的這個報導還有呢這個台美之間的關係在川習會的這個互動之後我們的掌握是如何那進一步的是跟您比較更有關係的就是說我們的駐美大使駐美代表會不會更換人選\n177333\t202866\t包括委員台美政府之間的溝通管道很暢通而且也很順利在進行因為針對最近這幾件包括APEC或川習會等至於說委員提到的我們駐美的人士我們並沒有啟動任何要調整的程序目前因為美術的功能也發揮得很好\n204480\t217183\t好所以我們沒有打算要這個召回駐美代表于大雷大使沒有目前沒有好那好謝謝那這個部長可以先請回我先請一下這個陸委會跟經濟部好\n226119\t250772\t那這個兩位好那這個最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院的這個這個質詢備詢的過程當中那有談到這個我們先請教經濟部有談到就是呢淘寶跟拼多多兩個平台這個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣這個落地公司的話要取消要取消他們的這個平台\n251292\t271189\t那請問一下經濟部這邊昨天呢就有提到就是說呢我們沒有電商的這個相關的這個選項那我想問一下在這種情況之下依照院長的只是多久會做出那撤銷淘寶以及拼多多在台灣的這個電商平台的APP的決定\n273286\t296832\t委員好 那針對這個部分我們國際貿易署主要是在跨境這個部分加強跟海關那邊在加強查緝的這個部分沒有 我們要問查緝的事情這個是另外一個問題我問的是 院長所說的要下架淘寶跟拼多多如果他們沒有在期限之內在台灣落地那這個期限是多久\n297452\t320392\t然後呢什麼時候如果沒有完成你們要把淘寶跟拼多多平台關掉有沒有按照院長的指示再進行報告委員我們這個部分我們會吸回再跟我們部內的相關的單位來做所以我們的行政院長卓榮泰在備詢之後沒有跟你們再進一步提到這件事情沒有再進一步的做要求沒有進一步的再提供時間點\n322923\t347544\t這個部分我在跟我們部裡面的相關單位在做進一步的確認好 所以就是沒有打算要回我就對了還是你不知道不知道就說不知道這個部分我沒有掌握好 不知道就算了那我們問一下陸委會就是呢 關於這個淘寶跟拼多多這些電商平台那呢 現在就被認為說呢這個如果沒有落地的話然後要請他們離開我想要問一下這個陸委會對這個事情的態度是什麼呀\n348537\t373140\t謝謝委員我想我們有兩個重要的原則第一個現在境外的這個豬肉包含中國大陸在內我們還是不允許絕對不會允許任何形式的這個進口誰說允許啦對所以我是跟委員報告我們對這個原則沒有人說允許那你報告這要幹嘛那請問你可以在淘寶我問嘛你可以在淘寶跟拼多多上面買到豬肉製品然後寄到台灣嗎臨時陸委恢復主委應該清楚吧\n373817\t402717\t可以嗎至少我個人是沒有這樣的經驗不是你個人的問題啊是你們有沒有去研究可不可以的問題啊是不可以的對嘛是不可以那不可以就不可以嘛不可以的話那就沒有辦法進來嘛沒有辦法進來的話查驗也不是你陸委會的事情也是人家這個EZ位的事嘛那請問一下我問的問題是陸委會對於這些電商平台若沒有進到台灣做公司的話那就要被取消電商平台這件事情陸委會的看法是什麼\n403308\t409832\t我們會跟那個速發部經濟部進一步的去研擬相關的法令規定所以你們是朝向院長所說的方向就是可能要把這兩個雙平台關掉是這個意思嗎大的方針來講是這樣但細密還是要研擬那另外您剛剛講到說最近這個有一些什麼投書啊什麼異常帳號啊然後什麼認知作戰我想問一下您自己是學者出身的您覺得\n427724\t435791\t這個美國智庫蘭德公司他有特定的比較親中的政黨政治傾向或者是這個類似這樣的情況嗎美國的蘭德公司\n438638\t467898\t其實個別的智庫或者是個別的學者他們的立場我們是不予評論啦你不予評論那剛剛又說這個投書到這個時代雜誌的然後呢就人家就親中那有的人你就可以評論有的人就不能評論那就是說講賴清德不好的就要可以評論沒有特別去提到就不能評論是這樣嗎有的問題是說你作為一個過去是學者你應該知道蘭德公司這家智庫是相當悠久的那我問你他對於所謂的中國大陸他有沒有特別親中的情況\n468938\t491309\t那你不會不了解吧你的看法是什麼陸委會的見解是什麼其實以智庫本身或者是以特定學者本身他們的立場當然都有可能會隨著時局的變化有一些調整所以委員您剛所提到的那您提的應該不會是他們發布的這個報告上面會有這個認知作戰的這個問題或者是說他們是因為現在這個川習會之前所以刻意的透過這些報導報告然後再來影響這個台灣或者是台灣的民眾吧\n497532\t509976\t上面有三位這個政治科學家也是學者的名字喔您可以看一下如果您覺得哪一位是您想要評論說他是親中的所以他講的這個話不實在請現在就告訴我上面有名字您看一下投影片有嗎你看啊\n517307\t533128\tOK 這個其實我還是要再次的強調啦我們不對特定的美國的學者跟智庫有啊 你剛剛就已經對特定的智庫跟學者你已經發表了一些了呀我可以發言一下嗎你已經一直在發言我並沒有阻擋的發言啊好 謝謝喔那可以讓我稍微說明一下下\n533809\t547321\t那我們的意思是說美國的智庫或美國的學者發表他們的看法然後有可能會被異常的帳號我剛回覆的是這一塊我回覆的主要的重點是在於會被特定的帳號渲染並且過度的延伸的解釋怎麼樣叫做過度的延伸解釋啊\n550484\t571715\t那人家就是有如果說這個智庫的學者就是有投書到時代雜誌然後他就是有說賴清的總統是regulus然後有人去把這樣子的一個新聞甚至一開始是中央社寫的然後呢去轉貼了這個中央社的報導之後就被你們說成是好像呢這個是是這個異常賬號等等的這個我覺得不實際啊我今天要討論的是蘭德公司的這篇新聞啊\n572515\t587186\t就是這個報告那裡面他提到的這幾個我覺得比較嚴重的部分在於說他談到了他們的建議是這邊英文中文我都把它拉出來避免你沒有說什麼斷章取義之類的沒有\n588307\t616528\t他講說呢美國跟中國應該要建立一個互信的訊號那主要他提到具體案例是美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸永久分離也不反對和平統一中國可以重申和平統一是首選途徑闡述可行且具說服力的實際方式並明確表示動武警在反分裂國家法所規定的最極端情況下才會被視為選項請問一下陸委會對於蘭德公司這樣子的一個建議\n617188\t639278\t你們的態度是站在肯定的角色還是你覺得跟你們現狀希望推進的方向是不一樣的我們陸委會還是主張中華民國的主權不是拿來被交易的並且中華民國和中華人民共和國互不隸屬也是客觀事實所以關於蘭德公司或者是任何的智庫任何的學者發表的言論對於美國方面的建議我們都予以尊重那我們也會予以平息\n640014\t659601\t你予以尊重歸予以尊重啊那人家的說法跟你我現在問的是說他現在的這樣子的一個對美的建議的說法跟目前我們陸委會好我們的這個對美台包含是台灣自己本身的方向是一致的還是不一致的我沒有叫你評論是個人他\n661262\t677757\t就是方向是否一致嘛就是我們現在台灣 立委會這邊是否認為美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸選友分離然後不反對和平統一以及中國大陸他可以做這些說法還有下一頁對不起 主席給我一點點時間把它講完不然等一下說我們只講一半\n680419\t696701\t那它裡面喔 這都是關於八頁吧 七頁左右提到跟台灣有關的更大膽的選項 美國呢 因為它有這個提供我們軍事支持所以呢 它這個可以有一定的影響力限制以及可能破壞美國主張的現狀的行為\n697802\t720542\t我要問的事情不是說你對這篇報告的評論我要問的問題是我們現在陸委會的整體對兩岸之間的方向跟這篇文章提到的方向是一致的或是不一致的有部分的內容是一致的 堅持和平的這一塊那哪一部分是不一致的可以再回到前一頁嗎\n723636\t751679\t比如說就是美國聲明他不支持台灣獨立這個部分我們就只能予以尊重但是不見得是我們國會的主張那這個一不反對和平同意呢這也是一樣就是說這個我們尊重所以你講清楚嘛你要不要一次把它講完就是說哪一些你們是尊重但是不同意不見得是一樣的方向我這樣講比較柔性那哪一些是你們本身就覺得我們這政策上面跟他的建議主張是一樣的方向\n752253\t775484\t因為這有一些是假設性問題啦就是說兩岸是不是永久分離喔或者說統一的這個方式用和平的方式還是用其他的方式所以這裡面對於陸委會來講的話那我們對於是不是要永久分離來說這不是我們現在政策要討論的這個主軸那維持現狀還有中華民國 中華人民共和國互不隸屬這才是我們目前陸委會在兩岸政策上面的一個基調好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝 謝謝 謝謝委員各位請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們先請林佳龍 林部長來 部長請\n部長好我想今天大家都關注的是川習會的會面在我們開會的與此同時川普跟習近平也已經有公開的會面然後也在幕僚的陪伴之下有了一個基本的對話當然記者的這些喊話他們都是講說彼此之間有很好的關係一直都有很好的關係然後大概就是簡單的問候\n但是有幾件事情想要跟您詢問因為今天的新聞有一些消息人士表示我相信這個消息人士可能都是在美國這邊行走的記者他們的說法可能會對 可能不會對我沒有辦法把握但是我們還是得來詢問我們的外交部林部長對消息人士他們所說的一些回應\n那麼呢可能這個我沒有自己的想法我沒有說這個消息人士講一定是對的因為他沒有具名但是在這麼關鍵的時刻我想我還是得提出來那這個是在CNN他的這個報導裡面呢他就講到就是說呢\n尽管美方的资深官员相信川普不会在会谈当中被破表态反对台湾独立但是川普拒绝排除台湾可能被牵扯进美中贸易谈判的可能性台北方面正担心美方的支持是否动摇这是第一点我先把这个问题都讲完一次再请您回复\n那呢這個所謂消息人士表示台灣正積極重新評估如何爭取川普政府站在自己這一方那面對的這個美中的雙重壓力那賴總統這個承諾包含是國防支出等等喔那可能不會成為頭條新聞但是會影響美台的關係那其中一個我覺得比較需要請教您的就是\n其中一項考量是 召回現任駐美代表余大雷改派一位更具有政治手腕的外交官部分川普官員私下表示雖然余大雷獲得部分的白宮人士支持但是這位職業外交官欠缺於川普圈子有效互動的政治能量\n那我想要先請這個部長幫我們說明一下有關於CNN剛剛的這個報導還有呢這個台美之間的關係在川習會的這個互動之後我們的掌握是如何那進一步的是跟您比較更有關係的就是說我們的駐美大使駐美代表會不會更換人選\n包括委員台美政府之間的溝通管道很暢通而且也很順利在進行因為針對最近這幾件包括APEC或川習會等至於說委員提到的我們駐美的人士我們並沒有啟動任何要調整的程序目前因為美術的功能也發揮得很好\n好所以我們沒有打算要這個召回駐美代表于大雷大使沒有目前沒有好那好謝謝那這個部長可以先請回我先請一下這個陸委會跟經濟部好\n那這個兩位好那這個最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院的這個這個質詢備詢的過程當中那有談到這個我們先請教經濟部有談到就是呢淘寶跟拼多多兩個平台這個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣這個落地公司的話要取消要取消他們的這個平台\n那請問一下經濟部這邊昨天呢就有提到就是說呢我們沒有電商的這個相關的這個選項那我想問一下在這種情況之下依照院長的只是多久會做出那撤銷淘寶以及拼多多在台灣的這個電商平台的APP的決定\n委員好 那針對這個部分我們國際貿易署主要是在跨境這個部分加強跟海關那邊在加強查緝的這個部分沒有 我們要問查緝的事情這個是另外一個問題我問的是 院長所說的要下架淘寶跟拼多多如果他們沒有在期限之內在台灣落地那這個期限是多久\n然後呢什麼時候如果沒有完成你們要把淘寶跟拼多多平台關掉有沒有按照院長的指示再進行報告委員我們這個部分我們會吸回再跟我們部內的相關的單位來做所以我們的行政院長卓榮泰在備詢之後沒有跟你們再進一步提到這件事情沒有再進一步的做要求沒有進一步的再提供時間點\n這個部分我在跟我們部裡面的相關單位在做進一步的確認好 所以就是沒有打算要回我就對了還是你不知道不知道就說不知道這個部分我沒有掌握好 不知道就算了那我們問一下陸委會就是呢 關於這個淘寶跟拼多多這些電商平台那呢 現在就被認為說呢這個如果沒有落地的話然後要請他們離開我想要問一下這個陸委會對這個事情的態度是什麼呀\n謝謝委員我想我們有兩個重要的原則第一個現在境外的這個豬肉包含中國大陸在內我們還是不允許絕對不會允許任何形式的這個進口誰說允許啦對所以我是跟委員報告我們對這個原則沒有人說允許那你報告這要幹嘛那請問你可以在淘寶我問嘛你可以在淘寶跟拼多多上面買到豬肉製品然後寄到台灣嗎臨時陸委恢復主委應該清楚吧\n可以嗎至少我個人是沒有這樣的經驗不是你個人的問題啊是你們有沒有去研究可不可以的問題啊是不可以的對嘛是不可以那不可以就不可以嘛不可以的話那就沒有辦法進來嘛沒有辦法進來的話查驗也不是你陸委會的事情也是人家這個EZ位的事嘛那請問一下我問的問題是陸委會對於這些電商平台若沒有進到台灣做公司的話那就要被取消電商平台這件事情陸委會的看法是什麼\n我們會跟那個速發部經濟部進一步的去研擬相關的法令規定所以你們是朝向院長所說的方向就是可能要把這兩個雙平台關掉是這個意思嗎大的方針來講是這樣但細密還是要研擬那另外您剛剛講到說最近這個有一些什麼投書啊什麼異常帳號啊然後什麼認知作戰我想問一下您自己是學者出身的您覺得\n這個美國智庫蘭德公司他有特定的比較親中的政黨政治傾向或者是這個類似這樣的情況嗎美國的蘭德公司\n其實個別的智庫或者是個別的學者他們的立場我們是不予評論啦你不予評論那剛剛又說這個投書到這個時代雜誌的然後呢就人家就親中那有的人你就可以評論有的人就不能評論那就是說講賴清德不好的就要可以評論沒有特別去提到就不能評論是這樣嗎有的問題是說你作為一個過去是學者你應該知道蘭德公司這家智庫是相當悠久的那我問你他對於所謂的中國大陸他有沒有特別親中的情況\n那你不會不了解吧你的看法是什麼陸委會的見解是什麼其實以智庫本身或者是以特定學者本身他們的立場當然都有可能會隨著時局的變化有一些調整所以委員您剛所提到的那您提的應該不會是他們發布的這個報告上面會有這個認知作戰的這個問題或者是說他們是因為現在這個川習會之前所以刻意的透過這些報導報告然後再來影響這個台灣或者是台灣的民眾吧\n上面有三位這個政治科學家也是學者的名字喔您可以看一下如果您覺得哪一位是您想要評論說他是親中的所以他講的這個話不實在請現在就告訴我上面有名字您看一下投影片有嗎你看啊\nOK 這個其實我還是要再次的強調啦我們不對特定的美國的學者跟智庫有啊 你剛剛就已經對特定的智庫跟學者你已經發表了一些了呀我可以發言一下嗎你已經一直在發言我並沒有阻擋的發言啊好 謝謝喔那可以讓我稍微說明一下下\n那我們的意思是說美國的智庫或美國的學者發表他們的看法然後有可能會被異常的帳號我剛回覆的是這一塊我回覆的主要的重點是在於會被特定的帳號渲染並且過度的延伸的解釋怎麼樣叫做過度的延伸解釋啊\n那人家就是有如果說這個智庫的學者就是有投書到時代雜誌然後他就是有說賴清的總統是regulus然後有人去把這樣子的一個新聞甚至一開始是中央社寫的然後呢去轉貼了這個中央社的報導之後就被你們說成是好像呢這個是是這個異常賬號等等的這個我覺得不實際啊我今天要討論的是蘭德公司的這篇新聞啊\n就是這個報告那裡面他提到的這幾個我覺得比較嚴重的部分在於說他談到了他們的建議是這邊英文中文我都把它拉出來避免你沒有說什麼斷章取義之類的沒有\n他講說呢美國跟中國應該要建立一個互信的訊號那主要他提到具體案例是美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸永久分離也不反對和平統一中國可以重申和平統一是首選途徑闡述可行且具說服力的實際方式並明確表示動武警在反分裂國家法所規定的最極端情況下才會被視為選項請問一下陸委會對於蘭德公司這樣子的一個建議\n你們的態度是站在肯定的角色還是你覺得跟你們現狀希望推進的方向是不一樣的我們陸委會還是主張中華民國的主權不是拿來被交易的並且中華民國和中華人民共和國互不隸屬也是客觀事實所以關於蘭德公司或者是任何的智庫任何的學者發表的言論對於美國方面的建議我們都予以尊重那我們也會予以平息\n你予以尊重歸予以尊重啊那人家的說法跟你我現在問的是說他現在的這樣子的一個對美的建議的說法跟目前我們陸委會好我們的這個對美台包含是台灣自己本身的方向是一致的還是不一致的我沒有叫你評論是個人他\n就是方向是否一致嘛就是我們現在台灣 立委會這邊是否認為美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸選友分離然後不反對和平統一以及中國大陸他可以做這些說法還有下一頁對不起 主席給我一點點時間把它講完不然等一下說我們只講一半\n那它裡面喔 這都是關於八頁吧 七頁左右提到跟台灣有關的更大膽的選項 美國呢 因為它有這個提供我們軍事支持所以呢 它這個可以有一定的影響力限制以及可能破壞美國主張的現狀的行為\n我要問的事情不是說你對這篇報告的評論我要問的問題是我們現在陸委會的整體對兩岸之間的方向跟這篇文章提到的方向是一致的或是不一致的有部分的內容是一致的 堅持和平的這一塊那哪一部分是不一致的可以再回到前一頁嗎\n比如說就是美國聲明他不支持台灣獨立這個部分我們就只能予以尊重但是不見得是我們國會的主張那這個一不反對和平同意呢這也是一樣就是說這個我們尊重所以你講清楚嘛你要不要一次把它講完就是說哪一些你們是尊重但是不同意不見得是一樣的方向我這樣講比較柔性那哪一些是你們本身就覺得我們這政策上面跟他的建議主張是一樣的方向\n因為這有一些是假設性問題啦就是說兩岸是不是永久分離喔或者說統一的這個方式用和平的方式還是用其他的方式所以這裡面對於陸委會來講的話那我們對於是不是要永久分離來說這不是我們現在政策要討論的這個主軸那維持現狀還有中華民國 中華人民共和國互不隸屬這才是我們目前陸委會在兩岸政策上面的一個基調好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝 謝謝 謝謝委員各位請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.493 --> 00:03.157\n謝謝主席我們先請林佳龍林部長來部長請\n\n00:13.283 --> 00:41.265\n部長好我想今天大家都關注的是川習會的會面在我們開會的與此同時川普跟習近平也已經有公開的會面然後也在幕僚的陪伴之下有了一個基本的對話當然記者的這些喊話他們都是講說彼此之間有很好的關係一直都有很好的關係然後大概就是簡單的問候\n\n00:43.686 --> 01:10.659\n但是有幾件事情想要跟您詢問因為今天的新聞有一些消息人士表示我相信這個消息人士可能都是在美國這邊行走的記者他們的說法可能會對可能不會對我沒有辦法把握但是我們還是得來詢問我們的外交部林部長對消息人士他們所說的一些回應\n\n01:11.599 --> 01:28.227\n那麼呢可能這個我沒有自己的想法我沒有說這個消息人士講一定是對的因為他沒有具名但是在這麼關鍵的時刻我想我還是得提出來那這個是在CNN他的這個報導裡面呢他就講到就是說呢\n\n01:28.667 --> 01:50.632\n尽管美方的资深官员相信川普不会在会谈当中被破表态反对台湾独立但是川普拒绝排除台湾可能被牵扯进美中贸易谈判的可能性台北方面正担心美方的支持是否动摇这是第一点我先把这个问题都讲完一次再请您回复\n\n01:51.272 --> 02:13.439\n那呢這個所謂消息人士表示台灣正積極重新評估如何爭取川普政府站在自己這一方那面對的這個美中的雙重壓力那賴總統這個承諾包含是國防支出等等喔那可能不會成為頭條新聞但是會影響美台的關係那其中一個我覺得比較需要請教您的就是\n\n02:14.059 --> 02:34.820\n其中一項考量是召回現任駐美代表余大雷改派一位更具有政治手腕的外交官部分川普官員私下表示雖然余大雷獲得部分的白宮人士支持但是這位職業外交官欠缺於川普圈子有效互動的政治能量\n\n02:35.541 --> 02:55.518\n那我想要先請這個部長幫我們說明一下有關於CNN剛剛的這個報導還有呢這個台美之間的關係在川習會的這個互動之後我們的掌握是如何那進一步的是跟您比較更有關係的就是說我們的駐美大使駐美代表會不會更換人選\n\n02:57.333 --> 03:22.866\n包括委員台美政府之間的溝通管道很暢通而且也很順利在進行因為針對最近這幾件包括APEC或川習會等至於說委員提到的我們駐美的人士我們並沒有啟動任何要調整的程序目前因為美術的功能也發揮得很好\n\n03:24.480 --> 03:37.183\n好所以我們沒有打算要這個召回駐美代表于大雷大使沒有目前沒有好那好謝謝那這個部長可以先請回我先請一下這個陸委會跟經濟部好\n\n03:46.119 --> 04:10.772\n那這個兩位好那這個最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院的這個這個質詢備詢的過程當中那有談到這個我們先請教經濟部有談到就是呢淘寶跟拼多多兩個平台這個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣這個落地公司的話要取消要取消他們的這個平台\n\n04:11.292 --> 04:31.189\n那請問一下經濟部這邊昨天呢就有提到就是說呢我們沒有電商的這個相關的這個選項那我想問一下在這種情況之下依照院長的只是多久會做出那撤銷淘寶以及拼多多在台灣的這個電商平台的APP的決定\n\n04:33.286 --> 04:56.832\n委員好那針對這個部分我們國際貿易署主要是在跨境這個部分加強跟海關那邊在加強查緝的這個部分沒有我們要問查緝的事情這個是另外一個問題我問的是院長所說的要下架淘寶跟拼多多如果他們沒有在期限之內在台灣落地那這個期限是多久\n\n04:57.452 --> 05:20.392\n然後呢什麼時候如果沒有完成你們要把淘寶跟拼多多平台關掉有沒有按照院長的指示再進行報告委員我們這個部分我們會吸回再跟我們部內的相關的單位來做所以我們的行政院長卓榮泰在備詢之後沒有跟你們再進一步提到這件事情沒有再進一步的做要求沒有進一步的再提供時間點\n\n05:22.923 --> 05:47.544\n這個部分我在跟我們部裡面的相關單位在做進一步的確認好所以就是沒有打算要回我就對了還是你不知道不知道就說不知道這個部分我沒有掌握好不知道就算了那我們問一下陸委會就是呢關於這個淘寶跟拼多多這些電商平台那呢現在就被認為說呢這個如果沒有落地的話然後要請他們離開我想要問一下這個陸委會對這個事情的態度是什麼呀\n\n05:48.537 --> 06:13.140\n謝謝委員我想我們有兩個重要的原則第一個現在境外的這個豬肉包含中國大陸在內我們還是不允許絕對不會允許任何形式的這個進口誰說允許啦對所以我是跟委員報告我們對這個原則沒有人說允許那你報告這要幹嘛那請問你可以在淘寶我問嘛你可以在淘寶跟拼多多上面買到豬肉製品然後寄到台灣嗎臨時陸委恢復主委應該清楚吧\n\n06:13.817 --> 06:42.717\n可以嗎至少我個人是沒有這樣的經驗不是你個人的問題啊是你們有沒有去研究可不可以的問題啊是不可以的對嘛是不可以那不可以就不可以嘛不可以的話那就沒有辦法進來嘛沒有辦法進來的話查驗也不是你陸委會的事情也是人家這個EZ位的事嘛那請問一下我問的問題是陸委會對於這些電商平台若沒有進到台灣做公司的話那就要被取消電商平台這件事情陸委會的看法是什麼\n\n06:43.308 --> 06:49.832\n我們會跟那個速發部經濟部進一步的去研擬相關的法令規定所以你們是朝向院長所說的方向就是可能要把這兩個雙平台關掉是這個意思嗎大的方針來講是這樣但細密還是要研擬那另外您剛剛講到說最近這個有一些什麼投書啊什麼異常帳號啊然後什麼認知作戰我想問一下您自己是學者出身的您覺得\n\n07:07.724 --> 07:15.791\n這個美國智庫蘭德公司他有特定的比較親中的政黨政治傾向或者是這個類似這樣的情況嗎美國的蘭德公司\n\n07:18.638 --> 07:47.898\n其實個別的智庫或者是個別的學者他們的立場我們是不予評論啦你不予評論那剛剛又說這個投書到這個時代雜誌的然後呢就人家就親中那有的人你就可以評論有的人就不能評論那就是說講賴清德不好的就要可以評論沒有特別去提到就不能評論是這樣嗎有的問題是說你作為一個過去是學者你應該知道蘭德公司這家智庫是相當悠久的那我問你他對於所謂的中國大陸他有沒有特別親中的情況\n\n07:48.938 --> 08:11.309\n那你不會不了解吧你的看法是什麼陸委會的見解是什麼其實以智庫本身或者是以特定學者本身他們的立場當然都有可能會隨著時局的變化有一些調整所以委員您剛所提到的那您提的應該不會是他們發布的這個報告上面會有這個認知作戰的這個問題或者是說他們是因為現在這個川習會之前所以刻意的透過這些報導報告然後再來影響這個台灣或者是台灣的民眾吧\n\n08:17.532 --> 08:29.976\n上面有三位這個政治科學家也是學者的名字喔您可以看一下如果您覺得哪一位是您想要評論說他是親中的所以他講的這個話不實在請現在就告訴我上面有名字您看一下投影片有嗎你看啊\n\n08:37.307 --> 08:53.128\nOK這個其實我還是要再次的強調啦我們不對特定的美國的學者跟智庫有啊你剛剛就已經對特定的智庫跟學者你已經發表了一些了呀我可以發言一下嗎你已經一直在發言我並沒有阻擋的發言啊好謝謝喔那可以讓我稍微說明一下下\n\n08:53.809 --> 09:07.321\n那我們的意思是說美國的智庫或美國的學者發表他們的看法然後有可能會被異常的帳號我剛回覆的是這一塊我回覆的主要的重點是在於會被特定的帳號渲染並且過度的延伸的解釋怎麼樣叫做過度的延伸解釋啊\n\n09:10.484 --> 09:31.715\n那人家就是有如果說這個智庫的學者就是有投書到時代雜誌然後他就是有說賴清的總統是regulus然後有人去把這樣子的一個新聞甚至一開始是中央社寫的然後呢去轉貼了這個中央社的報導之後就被你們說成是好像呢這個是是這個異常賬號等等的這個我覺得不實際啊我今天要討論的是蘭德公司的這篇新聞啊\n\n09:32.515 --> 09:47.186\n就是這個報告那裡面他提到的這幾個我覺得比較嚴重的部分在於說他談到了他們的建議是這邊英文中文我都把它拉出來避免你沒有說什麼斷章取義之類的沒有\n\n09:48.307 --> 10:16.528\n他講說呢美國跟中國應該要建立一個互信的訊號那主要他提到具體案例是美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸永久分離也不反對和平統一中國可以重申和平統一是首選途徑闡述可行且具說服力的實際方式並明確表示動武警在反分裂國家法所規定的最極端情況下才會被視為選項請問一下陸委會對於蘭德公司這樣子的一個建議\n\n10:17.188 --> 10:39.278\n你們的態度是站在肯定的角色還是你覺得跟你們現狀希望推進的方向是不一樣的我們陸委會還是主張中華民國的主權不是拿來被交易的並且中華民國和中華人民共和國互不隸屬也是客觀事實所以關於蘭德公司或者是任何的智庫任何的學者發表的言論對於美國方面的建議我們都予以尊重那我們也會予以平息\n\n10:40.014 --> 10:59.601\n你予以尊重歸予以尊重啊那人家的說法跟你我現在問的是說他現在的這樣子的一個對美的建議的說法跟目前我們陸委會好我們的這個對美台包含是台灣自己本身的方向是一致的還是不一致的我沒有叫你評論是個人他\n\n11:01.262 --> 11:17.757\n就是方向是否一致嘛就是我們現在台灣立委會這邊是否認為美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸選友分離然後不反對和平統一以及中國大陸他可以做這些說法還有下一頁對不起主席給我一點點時間把它講完不然等一下說我們只講一半\n\n11:20.419 --> 11:36.701\n那它裡面喔這都是關於八頁吧七頁左右提到跟台灣有關的更大膽的選項美國呢因為它有這個提供我們軍事支持所以呢它這個可以有一定的影響力限制以及可能破壞美國主張的現狀的行為\n\n11:37.802 --> 12:00.542\n我要問的事情不是說你對這篇報告的評論我要問的問題是我們現在陸委會的整體對兩岸之間的方向跟這篇文章提到的方向是一致的或是不一致的有部分的內容是一致的堅持和平的這一塊那哪一部分是不一致的可以再回到前一頁嗎\n\n12:03.636 --> 12:31.679\n比如說就是美國聲明他不支持台灣獨立這個部分我們就只能予以尊重但是不見得是我們國會的主張那這個一不反對和平同意呢這也是一樣就是說這個我們尊重所以你講清楚嘛你要不要一次把它講完就是說哪一些你們是尊重但是不同意不見得是一樣的方向我這樣講比較柔性那哪一些是你們本身就覺得我們這政策上面跟他的建議主張是一樣的方向\n\n12:32.253 --> 12:55.484\n因為這有一些是假設性問題啦就是說兩岸是不是永久分離喔或者說統一的這個方式用和平的方式還是用其他的方式所以這裡面對於陸委會來講的話那我們對於是不是要永久分離來說這不是我們現在政策要討論的這個主軸那維持現狀還有中華民國中華人民共和國互不隸屬這才是我們目前陸委會在兩岸政策上面的一個基調好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝委員各位請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.493,"end":3.157,"text":"謝謝主席 我們先請林佳龍 林部長來 部長請"},{"start":13.283,"end":41.265,"text":"部長好我想今天大家都關注的是川習會的會面在我們開會的與此同時川普跟習近平也已經有公開的會面然後也在幕僚的陪伴之下有了一個基本的對話當然記者的這些喊話他們都是講說彼此之間有很好的關係一直都有很好的關係然後大概就是簡單的問候"},{"start":43.686,"end":70.659,"text":"但是有幾件事情想要跟您詢問因為今天的新聞有一些消息人士表示我相信這個消息人士可能都是在美國這邊行走的記者他們的說法可能會對 可能不會對我沒有辦法把握但是我們還是得來詢問我們的外交部林部長對消息人士他們所說的一些回應"},{"start":71.599,"end":88.227,"text":"那麼呢可能這個我沒有自己的想法我沒有說這個消息人士講一定是對的因為他沒有具名但是在這麼關鍵的時刻我想我還是得提出來那這個是在CNN他的這個報導裡面呢他就講到就是說呢"},{"start":88.667,"end":110.632,"text":"尽管美方的资深官员相信川普不会在会谈当中被破表态反对台湾独立但是川普拒绝排除台湾可能被牵扯进美中贸易谈判的可能性台北方面正担心美方的支持是否动摇这是第一点我先把这个问题都讲完一次再请您回复"},{"start":111.272,"end":133.439,"text":"那呢這個所謂消息人士表示台灣正積極重新評估如何爭取川普政府站在自己這一方那面對的這個美中的雙重壓力那賴總統這個承諾包含是國防支出等等喔那可能不會成為頭條新聞但是會影響美台的關係那其中一個我覺得比較需要請教您的就是"},{"start":134.059,"end":154.82,"text":"其中一項考量是 召回現任駐美代表余大雷改派一位更具有政治手腕的外交官部分川普官員私下表示雖然余大雷獲得部分的白宮人士支持但是這位職業外交官欠缺於川普圈子有效互動的政治能量"},{"start":155.541,"end":175.518,"text":"那我想要先請這個部長幫我們說明一下有關於CNN剛剛的這個報導還有呢這個台美之間的關係在川習會的這個互動之後我們的掌握是如何那進一步的是跟您比較更有關係的就是說我們的駐美大使駐美代表會不會更換人選"},{"start":177.333,"end":202.866,"text":"包括委員台美政府之間的溝通管道很暢通而且也很順利在進行因為針對最近這幾件包括APEC或川習會等至於說委員提到的我們駐美的人士我們並沒有啟動任何要調整的程序目前因為美術的功能也發揮得很好"},{"start":204.48,"end":217.183,"text":"好所以我們沒有打算要這個召回駐美代表于大雷大使沒有目前沒有好那好謝謝那這個部長可以先請回我先請一下這個陸委會跟經濟部好"},{"start":226.119,"end":250.772,"text":"那這個兩位好那這個最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院的這個這個質詢備詢的過程當中那有談到這個我們先請教經濟部有談到就是呢淘寶跟拼多多兩個平台這個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣這個落地公司的話要取消要取消他們的這個平台"},{"start":251.292,"end":271.189,"text":"那請問一下經濟部這邊昨天呢就有提到就是說呢我們沒有電商的這個相關的這個選項那我想問一下在這種情況之下依照院長的只是多久會做出那撤銷淘寶以及拼多多在台灣的這個電商平台的APP的決定"},{"start":273.286,"end":296.832,"text":"委員好 那針對這個部分我們國際貿易署主要是在跨境這個部分加強跟海關那邊在加強查緝的這個部分沒有 我們要問查緝的事情這個是另外一個問題我問的是 院長所說的要下架淘寶跟拼多多如果他們沒有在期限之內在台灣落地那這個期限是多久"},{"start":297.452,"end":320.392,"text":"然後呢什麼時候如果沒有完成你們要把淘寶跟拼多多平台關掉有沒有按照院長的指示再進行報告委員我們這個部分我們會吸回再跟我們部內的相關的單位來做所以我們的行政院長卓榮泰在備詢之後沒有跟你們再進一步提到這件事情沒有再進一步的做要求沒有進一步的再提供時間點"},{"start":322.923,"end":347.544,"text":"這個部分我在跟我們部裡面的相關單位在做進一步的確認好 所以就是沒有打算要回我就對了還是你不知道不知道就說不知道這個部分我沒有掌握好 不知道就算了那我們問一下陸委會就是呢 關於這個淘寶跟拼多多這些電商平台那呢 現在就被認為說呢這個如果沒有落地的話然後要請他們離開我想要問一下這個陸委會對這個事情的態度是什麼呀"},{"start":348.537,"end":373.14,"text":"謝謝委員我想我們有兩個重要的原則第一個現在境外的這個豬肉包含中國大陸在內我們還是不允許絕對不會允許任何形式的這個進口誰說允許啦對所以我是跟委員報告我們對這個原則沒有人說允許那你報告這要幹嘛那請問你可以在淘寶我問嘛你可以在淘寶跟拼多多上面買到豬肉製品然後寄到台灣嗎臨時陸委恢復主委應該清楚吧"},{"start":373.817,"end":402.717,"text":"可以嗎至少我個人是沒有這樣的經驗不是你個人的問題啊是你們有沒有去研究可不可以的問題啊是不可以的對嘛是不可以那不可以就不可以嘛不可以的話那就沒有辦法進來嘛沒有辦法進來的話查驗也不是你陸委會的事情也是人家這個EZ位的事嘛那請問一下我問的問題是陸委會對於這些電商平台若沒有進到台灣做公司的話那就要被取消電商平台這件事情陸委會的看法是什麼"},{"start":403.308,"end":409.832,"text":"我們會跟那個速發部經濟部進一步的去研擬相關的法令規定所以你們是朝向院長所說的方向就是可能要把這兩個雙平台關掉是這個意思嗎大的方針來講是這樣但細密還是要研擬那另外您剛剛講到說最近這個有一些什麼投書啊什麼異常帳號啊然後什麼認知作戰我想問一下您自己是學者出身的您覺得"},{"start":427.724,"end":435.791,"text":"這個美國智庫蘭德公司他有特定的比較親中的政黨政治傾向或者是這個類似這樣的情況嗎美國的蘭德公司"},{"start":438.638,"end":467.898,"text":"其實個別的智庫或者是個別的學者他們的立場我們是不予評論啦你不予評論那剛剛又說這個投書到這個時代雜誌的然後呢就人家就親中那有的人你就可以評論有的人就不能評論那就是說講賴清德不好的就要可以評論沒有特別去提到就不能評論是這樣嗎有的問題是說你作為一個過去是學者你應該知道蘭德公司這家智庫是相當悠久的那我問你他對於所謂的中國大陸他有沒有特別親中的情況"},{"start":468.938,"end":491.309,"text":"那你不會不了解吧你的看法是什麼陸委會的見解是什麼其實以智庫本身或者是以特定學者本身他們的立場當然都有可能會隨著時局的變化有一些調整所以委員您剛所提到的那您提的應該不會是他們發布的這個報告上面會有這個認知作戰的這個問題或者是說他們是因為現在這個川習會之前所以刻意的透過這些報導報告然後再來影響這個台灣或者是台灣的民眾吧"},{"start":497.532,"end":509.976,"text":"上面有三位這個政治科學家也是學者的名字喔您可以看一下如果您覺得哪一位是您想要評論說他是親中的所以他講的這個話不實在請現在就告訴我上面有名字您看一下投影片有嗎你看啊"},{"start":517.307,"end":533.128,"text":"OK 這個其實我還是要再次的強調啦我們不對特定的美國的學者跟智庫有啊 你剛剛就已經對特定的智庫跟學者你已經發表了一些了呀我可以發言一下嗎你已經一直在發言我並沒有阻擋的發言啊好 謝謝喔那可以讓我稍微說明一下下"},{"start":533.809,"end":547.321,"text":"那我們的意思是說美國的智庫或美國的學者發表他們的看法然後有可能會被異常的帳號我剛回覆的是這一塊我回覆的主要的重點是在於會被特定的帳號渲染並且過度的延伸的解釋怎麼樣叫做過度的延伸解釋啊"},{"start":550.484,"end":571.715,"text":"那人家就是有如果說這個智庫的學者就是有投書到時代雜誌然後他就是有說賴清的總統是regulus然後有人去把這樣子的一個新聞甚至一開始是中央社寫的然後呢去轉貼了這個中央社的報導之後就被你們說成是好像呢這個是是這個異常賬號等等的這個我覺得不實際啊我今天要討論的是蘭德公司的這篇新聞啊"},{"start":572.515,"end":587.186,"text":"就是這個報告那裡面他提到的這幾個我覺得比較嚴重的部分在於說他談到了他們的建議是這邊英文中文我都把它拉出來避免你沒有說什麼斷章取義之類的沒有"},{"start":588.307,"end":616.528,"text":"他講說呢美國跟中國應該要建立一個互信的訊號那主要他提到具體案例是美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸永久分離也不反對和平統一中國可以重申和平統一是首選途徑闡述可行且具說服力的實際方式並明確表示動武警在反分裂國家法所規定的最極端情況下才會被視為選項請問一下陸委會對於蘭德公司這樣子的一個建議"},{"start":617.188,"end":639.278,"text":"你們的態度是站在肯定的角色還是你覺得跟你們現狀希望推進的方向是不一樣的我們陸委會還是主張中華民國的主權不是拿來被交易的並且中華民國和中華人民共和國互不隸屬也是客觀事實所以關於蘭德公司或者是任何的智庫任何的學者發表的言論對於美國方面的建議我們都予以尊重那我們也會予以平息"},{"start":640.014,"end":659.601,"text":"你予以尊重歸予以尊重啊那人家的說法跟你我現在問的是說他現在的這樣子的一個對美的建議的說法跟目前我們陸委會好我們的這個對美台包含是台灣自己本身的方向是一致的還是不一致的我沒有叫你評論是個人他"},{"start":661.262,"end":677.757,"text":"就是方向是否一致嘛就是我們現在台灣 立委會這邊是否認為美國聲明不支持台灣獨立不尋求兩岸選友分離然後不反對和平統一以及中國大陸他可以做這些說法還有下一頁對不起 主席給我一點點時間把它講完不然等一下說我們只講一半"},{"start":680.419,"end":696.701,"text":"那它裡面喔 這都是關於八頁吧 七頁左右提到跟台灣有關的更大膽的選項 美國呢 因為它有這個提供我們軍事支持所以呢 它這個可以有一定的影響力限制以及可能破壞美國主張的現狀的行為"},{"start":697.802,"end":720.542,"text":"我要問的事情不是說你對這篇報告的評論我要問的問題是我們現在陸委會的整體對兩岸之間的方向跟這篇文章提到的方向是一致的或是不一致的有部分的內容是一致的 堅持和平的這一塊那哪一部分是不一致的可以再回到前一頁嗎"},{"start":723.636,"end":751.679,"text":"比如說就是美國聲明他不支持台灣獨立這個部分我們就只能予以尊重但是不見得是我們國會的主張那這個一不反對和平同意呢這也是一樣就是說這個我們尊重所以你講清楚嘛你要不要一次把它講完就是說哪一些你們是尊重但是不同意不見得是一樣的方向我這樣講比較柔性那哪一些是你們本身就覺得我們這政策上面跟他的建議主張是一樣的方向"},{"start":752.253,"end":775.484,"text":"因為這有一些是假設性問題啦就是說兩岸是不是永久分離喔或者說統一的這個方式用和平的方式還是用其他的方式所以這裡面對於陸委會來講的話那我們對於是不是要永久分離來說這不是我們現在政策要討論的這個主軸那維持現狀還有中華民國 中華人民共和國互不隸屬這才是我們目前陸委會在兩岸政策上面的一個基調好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝 謝謝 謝謝委員各位請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":338,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時32分）謝謝主席，我們先請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：今天大家都關注的是川習會，在我們開會的同時，川普跟習近平也已經有公開的會面，也在幕僚的陪伴之下有了一個基本的對話。當然，對於記者的喊話，他們都說彼此之間一直都有很好的關係，大概就是簡單的問候，但是我有幾件事情想要跟您詢問，因為今天的新聞指出，有一些消息人士表示……我相信這個消息人士可能都是在美國這邊行走的記者，他們的說法可能會對，可能不會對，我沒有把握，但是我們還是得來詢問外交部林部長對這個消息人士所說的回應。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：可能我們有自己的想法。我沒有說這個消息人士講的一定是對的，因為他沒有具名，但是在這麼關鍵的時刻，我想我還是得提出來。這個是CNN的報導，裡面就講到儘管美方的資深官員相信，川普不會在會談當中被迫表態反對台灣獨立，但是川普拒絕排除台灣可能被牽扯進美中貿易談判的可能性，台北方面正擔心美方的支持是否動搖，這是第一點。我先把問題都講完，再請您一次回復。","這個消息人士表示，台灣正積極重新評估如何爭取川普政府站在自己這一方，面對美中的雙重壓力，賴總統承諾包含國防支出等等，可能不會成為頭條新聞，但是會影響美台的關係。其中一個我覺得比較需要請教您的，就是其中一項考量是召回現任駐美代表俞大㵢，改派一位更具有政治手腕的外交官。部分川普官員私下表示，雖然俞大㵢獲得部分的白宮人士支持，但是這位職業外交官欠缺與川普圈子有效互動的政治能量。","我想要先請部長幫我們說明一下，有關於CNN剛剛的這個報導，還有台美之間的關係在川習會的互動之後，我們的掌握是如何？進一步跟您更有關係的就是我們的駐美代表會不會更換人選？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，台美政府之間的溝通管道很暢通，而且也很順利在進行，針對最近這幾件包括APEC或川習會等。至於委員提到我們駐美的人事，我們並沒有啟動任何要調整的程序，目前美處的功能也發揮得很好。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，好，所以我們沒有打算要召回駐美代表俞大㵢大使？"],["林部長佳龍：目前沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝，部長可以先請回。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["徐委員巧芯：我先請一下陸委會及經濟部。兩位好。最近很多人關心有關於先前卓榮泰院長在大院備詢的過程當中都有談到……我們先請教經濟部，有談到淘寶跟拼多多兩個電商平台如果沒有進到台灣落地公司的話，要取消他們的平台。請問一下，經濟部昨天有提到我們沒有電商相關的選項，我想問一下，在這種情況之下，依照院長的指示，多久會作出撤銷淘寶及拼多多在台灣電商平台app的決定？"],["劉署長威廉：委員好。針對這個部分，我們國際貿易署主要是在跨境的部分跟海關加強查緝。"],["徐委員巧芯：我沒有問查緝的事情，這個是另外一個問題，我問的是院長所說的要下架淘寶跟拼多多，如果他們沒有在期限之內在台灣落地，這個期限是多久？什麼時候如果沒有完成，你們要把淘寶跟拼多多平台關掉？有沒有按照院長的指示在進行？"],["劉署長威廉：報告委員，這個部分我們會攜回再跟部內相關的單位做進一步的討論。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以行政院卓榮泰院長在備詢之後，沒有跟你們再進一步提到這件事情，沒有再進一步做要求，沒有進一步提供時間點？"],["劉署長威廉：這個部分我再跟部裡面相關單位做進一步的確認。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，所以就是沒有打算要回我就對了？還是你不知道？不知道就說不知道。"],["劉署長威廉：這個部分我沒有掌握。"],["徐委員巧芯：不知道就算了。我們問一下陸委會，關於淘寶跟拼多多這些電商平台，現在認為他們如果沒有落地的話，要請他們離開，我想要問一下陸委會對這件事情的態度是什麼？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：謝謝委員。我們有兩個重要的原則：第一個，現在境外的豬肉，包含中國大陸在內，我們還是絕對不會允許任何形式的進口……"],["徐委員巧芯：誰說允許了？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：對，所以我是跟委員報告我們的原則……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有人說允許，你報告這個要幹嘛？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：請問，你可以在淘寶……"],["沈副主任委員有忠：沒有，因為委員還是問我……"],["徐委員巧芯：我問嘛！你可以在淘寶跟拼多多上買到豬肉製品，然後寄到台灣嗎？您是陸委會副主委，應該清楚吧，可以嗎？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：至少我個人是沒有這樣的經驗。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是你個人的問題，是你們有沒有去研究可不可以的問題。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：是不可以的。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，是不可以的，不可以就不可以，不可以的話就沒有辦法進來，沒有辦法進來的話，查驗也不是你陸委會的事情，也是人家EZ WAY的事。請問一下，我問的問題是，陸委會對於這些電商平台若沒有進到台灣做公司的話，就要被取消電商平台，就這件事情，陸委會的看法是什麼？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：我們會跟數發部、經濟部進一步去研擬相關的法令規定，就陸委會……"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，所以你們是朝向院長所說的方向，就是可能要把這兩個、雙平台關掉，是這個意思嗎？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：大的方針來講是這樣，但細部還是要研擬。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，好，我知道了。另外，您剛剛講到最近有一些什麼投書、什麼異常帳號、什麼認知作戰，我想問一下，您自己是學者出身的……"],["沈副主任委員有忠：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：您覺得美國智庫蘭德公司有特定比較親中的政治傾向或者是類似這樣的情況嗎？美國的蘭德公司。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：其實個別的智庫或者是個別的學者他們的立場，我們是不予評論。"],["徐委員巧芯：你不予評論，那剛剛又說投書到時代雜誌的，然後人家就親中，有的人你就可以評論，有的人就不能評論，那就是說講賴清德不好的就可以評論，沒有特別去提到就不能評論，是這樣嗎？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：當然不是啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：我的問題是，你過去是學者，你應該知道蘭德公司這家智庫是相當悠久的，那它對於所謂的中國大陸有沒有特別親中的情況？你不會不了解吧？你的看法是什麼？陸委會的見解是什麼？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：其實以智庫本身或特定學者本身來講，他們的立場當然有可能會隨著時局的變化而有一些調整，所以委員剛剛所提到的……"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那您提的應該不會是他們發布的這個報告上面會有認知作戰的這個問題，或是他們是因為在川習會之前所以刻意透過這些報告來影響台灣或台灣的民眾吧？這上面有三位政治科學家也是學者的名字，您可以看一下，如果您覺得有哪一位是您想要評論說他是親中的，所以他講的這個話不實在，請現在就告訴我，您看一下投影片，在上面有名字，有看到嗎？你看啊！"],["沈副主任委員有忠：OK，其實我還是要再次地強調，我們不對特定的美國學者跟智庫他們的立場……"],["徐委員巧芯：有啊！你剛剛就已經對特定的智庫跟學者發表你的意見了。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：委員，我可以發言一下嗎？我可以發言一下嗎？"],["徐委員巧芯：你已經一直在發言，我並沒有阻擋你的發言啊！"],["沈副主任委員有忠：好，謝謝，那可以讓我稍微說明一下，我們的意思是說，美國的智庫或美國的學者發表他們的看法，然後有可能會被異常的帳號……我剛剛回復的是這一塊，我回復的主要重點是在於會被特定的帳號渲染，並且過度地延伸解釋……"],["徐委員巧芯：怎麼樣叫做過度地延伸解釋啊？如果這個智庫的學者就是有投書到時代雜誌，然後他就是有說賴清德總統是reckless，甚至一開始是中央社寫了這樣子的一個新聞，然後有人去轉貼了這個中央社的報導之後，就被你們說成好像是異常帳號等等，我覺得這個不實際啊！我今天要討論的是蘭德公司的這個報告，我覺得在裡面提到了幾個比較嚴重的部分，就是他們提出建議，我這邊把英文、中文都秀出來，以避免你們又說什麼斷章取義之類的，並沒有這樣。他說美國跟中國應該要建立一套互信的訊號，主要提到的具體例子包括美國聲明不支持台灣獨立、不尋求兩岸永久分離、亦不反對和平統一。中國可以重申和平統一是首選途徑，闡述可行且具說服力的實現方式，並明確表示動武僅在反分裂國家法所規定的最極端情況下才會被視為選項。我想請問陸委會，對於蘭德公司這樣子的建議，你們的態度是站在肯定的立場還是你覺得跟你們現在希望推進的方向是不一樣的？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：我們陸委會還是主張中華民國的主權不是拿來被交易的，並且中華民國和中華人民共和國互不隸屬也是客觀事實，所以關於蘭德公司或者是任何智庫、任何學者所發表的言論，對於美國方面的建議，我們都予以尊重，那我們也會予以評析。"],["徐委員巧芯：你說予以尊重歸予以尊重啊！那我現在要問的是，他現在這樣對美建議的說法，跟目前陸委會對美臺之間包含台灣自己本身的方向是一致的還是不一致的？我並沒有叫你評論這個人，我是問方向是否一致，就是現在我們台灣陸委會這邊是否認為美國聲明不支持台灣獨立、不尋求兩岸永久分離亦不反對和平統一以及中國大陸可以做這些的說法。對不起，請主席再給我一點時間講完，不然人家會說我只講了一半。在這裡面有七、八頁左右是提到跟台灣有關的部分，包括更大膽的選項，美國因為有提供我們軍事支持，所以可以有一定的影響力，限制及可能破壞美國所主張維持現狀的行為。我要問的不是你對這個報告的評論，我要問的問題是現在陸委會對兩岸之間的整體方向跟這篇文章所提到的方向是一致的抑或是不一致的？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：有部分的內容是一致的。"],["徐委員巧芯：哪個部分？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：就是堅持和平的這一塊。"],["徐委員巧芯：堅持和平的這一塊？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：哪一部分是不一致的？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：可以再回到前一頁嗎？"],["徐委員巧芯：可以。"],["主席：請簡要。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：是。譬如說，美國聲明不支持台灣獨立，對這個部分我們就只能予以尊重，但是這不見得是我們陸委會的主張。"],["徐委員巧芯：那「亦不反對和平統一」呢？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：這也是一樣，就是說我們尊重……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你講清楚嘛！你要不要一次把它講完？就是哪一些你們是尊重但是不同意，不見得是一樣的方向，我這樣講是比較柔性，有哪一些是你們本身就覺得我們在政策上面跟他的建議、主張是一樣的方向？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：因為有一些是假設性的問題，就是兩岸是不是永久分離或統一的方式是用和平的方式還是用其他的方式，所以對於陸委會來講，是不是要永久分離並不是我們現在政策要討論的主軸，維持現狀還有中華民國、中華人民共和國互不隸屬才是目前我們陸委會在兩岸政策上面的一個基調。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，各位請回。","好，接下來進行詢答的委員是沈伯洋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","賴士葆","范雲","邱志偉","陳永康","林憶君","黃捷","黃仁","牛煦庭"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部、經濟部、大陸委員會報告「我國參與2025年度『亞太經濟合作（APEC）經濟領\n袖會議』的任務及目標」，並備質詢；二、邀請國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會、法務部、法\n務部調查局報告「中共對台進行長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓及我國相關應處」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00010"}}}