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{\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 36.306, \"end\": 36.986, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 36.986, \"end\": 38.047, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 38.047, \"end\": 38.727, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"玉\", \"start\": 38.727, \"end\": 38.887, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"山\", \"start\": 38.887, \"end\": 39.127, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 39.127, \"end\": 39.287, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 39.287, \"end\": 39.608, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 39.608, \"end\": 39.828, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 39.828, \"end\": 40.268, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"售\", \"start\": 40.268, \"end\": 40.968, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 40.968, \"end\": 41.389, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 41.389, \"end\": 41.769, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 41.769, \"end\": 42.069, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 42.069, \"end\": 42.669, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 42.669, \"end\": 43.23, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 43.23, \"end\": 43.33, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 43.33, \"end\": 43.39, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"瞭\", \"start\": 43.39, \"end\": 43.57, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 43.57, \"end\": 43.59, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 44.229, \"end\": 66.535, \"text\": \"我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這麼一個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好 那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 44.229, \"end\": 44.349, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 44.349, \"end\": 44.589, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 44.589, \"end\": 45.629, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 45.629, \"end\": 46.009, 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{\"word\": \"决\", \"start\": 78.144, \"end\": 78.404, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"议\", \"start\": 78.404, \"end\": 79.004, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 79.004, \"end\": 79.204, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 79.204, \"end\": 79.425, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 79.425, \"end\": 79.905, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"应\", \"start\": 79.905, \"end\": 80.065, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"该\", \"start\": 80.065, \"end\": 80.185, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 80.185, \"end\": 80.385, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 80.385, \"end\": 80.666, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 80.666, \"end\": 81.947, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 81.947, \"end\": 82.047, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 82.047, \"end\": 82.227, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"确\", \"start\": 82.227, \"end\": 82.427, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 82.427, \"end\": 82.627, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 82.627, \"end\": 82.807, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 82.807, \"end\": 82.927, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"对\", \"start\": 82.927, \"end\": 83.067, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 83.067, \"end\": 83.228, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 83.228, \"end\": 83.428, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 83.428, \"end\": 83.648, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"额\", \"start\": 83.648, \"end\": 83.968, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"没\", \"start\": 83.968, \"end\": 84.068, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 84.068, \"end\": 84.208, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 84.208, \"end\": 84.388, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 84.388, \"end\": 85.169, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 85.169, \"end\": 85.629, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"违\", \"start\": 85.629, \"end\": 85.91, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 85.91, \"end\": 86.09, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 86.09, \"end\": 86.25, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 86.25, \"end\": 86.49, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"训\", \"start\": 86.49, \"end\": 86.67, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 86.67, \"end\": 86.83, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"规\", \"start\": 86.83, \"end\": 87.071, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"范\", \"start\": 87.071, \"end\": 88.011, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 88.011, \"end\": 88.131, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 88.131, \"end\": 88.211, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"个\", \"start\": 88.211, \"end\": 88.972, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 88.972, \"end\": 89.172, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 89.172, \"end\": 89.292, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"会\", \"start\": 89.292, \"end\": 89.533, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 89.533, \"end\": 89.693, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 668.045, \"end\": 668.165, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 668.165, \"end\": 668.225, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 668.225, \"end\": 668.325, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 668.325, \"end\": 668.385, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 668.385, \"end\": 668.565, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 668.565, \"end\": 668.645, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 668.645, \"end\": 668.946, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 668.946, \"end\": 669.126, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 669.126, \"end\": 669.546, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 669.546, \"end\": 670.166, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 670.166, \"end\": 670.346, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 670.346, \"end\": 670.507, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 670.507, \"end\": 670.727, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 670.727, \"end\": 671.187, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 671.187, \"end\": 671.427, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 671.427, \"end\": 671.567, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 671.567, \"end\": 671.667, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 671.667, \"end\": 671.707, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 671.707, \"end\": 671.787, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 671.787, \"end\": 671.848, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 671.848, \"end\": 671.888, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 671.888, \"end\": 671.968, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 671.968, \"end\": 672.008, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 672.008, \"end\": 672.528, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 672.528, \"end\": 672.868, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 672.868, \"end\": 672.968, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 672.968, \"end\": 673.008, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"霖\", \"start\": 673.008, \"end\": 673.188, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 673.188, \"end\": 673.289, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 673.289, \"end\": 673.309, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 673.309, \"end\": 673.369, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 673.369, \"end\": 673.509, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 673.509, \"end\": 673.529, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"選\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,012 --> 00:00:19,457\n三商美幫人受了招親案這個消息滿天飛剛才很多委員也很關心然後從10月17號的深夜開始到28號的上午11個小時內三家公司陸續發布重訊\n\n2\n00:00:22,758 --> 00:00:43,590\n市場也解讀說已經介入了最終的結局中信金的重訓是投標案已結束玉山金跟三商售強調對市場傳聞不予評論請教一下主委您知道說現在有關玉山金跟三商售的合併案的過程您有瞭解嗎\n\n3\n00:00:44,229 --> 00:01:06,535\n我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這麼一個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個\n\n4\n00:01:07,495 --> 00:01:30,513\n到底董事会有没有授权这个溢价来投标如果说董事会有授权溢价跟投标是属于重大转投资的决议那依法应该要公告如果确定交易对象跟金额没有公告就违反了重训的规范第二个董事会至今尚未召开\n\n5\n00:01:31,454 --> 00:01:59,796\n那如果出具呢據法律約書裡的文件呢參與投標涉及到公司治理正當性的問題這兩個一個就是有關這個是不是屬於這個重大的一個訊息要發布然後另外一個是涉及到公司治理的問題那請教這個主委啦第一個他這個是不是涉及到這個重大的這個訊息必須要公佈因為後來是我們金管會去催他們\n\n6\n00:02:00,697 --> 00:02:27,490\n他們才發布重大的訊息嗎金管會不會去催這個事情因為這是他跟交易所之間交易所對於在我這邊上市櫃的公司我要求他們再做一些資訊透明他這裡面有努力的非常非常多的了解所以是交易所去要求他們要發布訊息嗎對所以說有那外界有這個問題那主要是媒體報導以後我想我們也請交易所交易所也主動的去應該所以是你們請交易所交易所請他們那就差不多就是你們要要求的\n\n7\n00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:48,884\n沒有這本來交易所就該做我們是交易所的主管機關當然會請他去做而且我們也跟你講這個結果要請交易所對外說明對那所以呢所以這個是不是要屬於要發布的重大訊息那他們沒有發布這個是不是重大訊息是由他們來判斷還是由交易所跟他們之間來說認定比如說那主委認不認為這個是重大的訊息\n\n8\n00:02:51,041 --> 00:02:56,989\n我覺得我應該要這個情況的話我在這邊不方便去講不是我們按照規定就按照這個相關的規定來看這個是不是很重大的訊息\n\n9\n00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:22,867\n不過這個部分我剛才講說這個確實我這邊沒有辦法站在經管會立場去說明因為這個事實的情況非常非常複雜你也是監理機關嘛第一個我也沒有參與他們的協商我也沒有參與這個內容還有整個過程就是在我們想法裡面就很簡單這個合併案前面這個它是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項\n\n10\n00:03:23,786 --> 00:03:46,784\n我想它裡面有一項說會有影響什麼什麼的這個對啊對上市公司股東權益或證券價格有重大影響對不對這個牽涉到當時的判斷我想有關註券的發布那主委也應該是認為說是有影響才會叫證那個證交所再去因為輿論已經有媒體報導這邊市場這樣我們當然機器主管就說你是交易所是主政單位你當然要去處理對這當然是啊這個我們\n\n11\n00:03:50,192 --> 00:04:12,641\n我剛才幾位委員我也說過開記者會的時候政企局的副局長有說過這東西有爭議性證交所就會去查證那目前有查證嗎有啊那查證的結果是什麼沒有我剛才講說交易所查證完他會對外說明那到現在三天的時間了那就我們會再請交易所進行查證所以這個要查多久啊\n\n12\n00:04:14,041 --> 00:04:41,292\n這個我就會請交易所盡快去做證件這個我說已經三天了那作為這個金管會你是監理機關那你認為說是幾天查出來是合乎規定的沒有我想交易所在處理這已經非常非常有經驗因為這個對就像你講的其實規定都很清楚該不該發布這個重大訊息這其實都有規範那三天時間你們查不出來不是我們查是交易所我們會那那個政經局局長有去查嗎\n\n13\n00:04:46,800 --> 00:05:07,313\n對一樣我們剛才已經剛才講而且交易所應該是有請他們不是我請這個張局長打一下有去查嗎這個這一段在查核中的事情在查核中哪時候會有結果等到事實的時間看到結果才能夠判斷什麼結果才能夠判斷我當然知道我的意思是說你們要多久的時間依照一般程序我們就會進行處理一般程序大概是幾天\n\n14\n00:05:16,335 --> 00:05:36,656\n應該在一週內吧我再問一下主委這個到底因為外界形容說這個是摸黑交易那個標題是媒體下的你是監理機關你要做個說明那到底這個有沒有經過這個Bindingoffer有沒有經過董事會的授權\n\n15\n00:05:38,581 --> 00:06:05,794\n我想在整個交易的過程當中有各種不同的授權的型態他們如果說這些他們是一個上市會公司他應該按照規定該怎麼對外說明就按照這個來說明不是因為剛剛主委一直強調說這個公司都會這個有公司治理的相關規定他們都知道如果大家都知道也有遵守的話其實這個金管會也不用那麼辛苦了金管會的存在就是說對於公司治理有問題的地方你們要提出監管\n\n16\n00:06:06,294 --> 00:06:21,035\n我們不會在一個事情我們完全沒有釐清的情況就在這邊先下結論所以剛剛講過我們是尊重他的體制因為這個重訓的發布不是做重訓的發布啦重訓發布是另外一個那另外一個就是說那到底\n\n17\n00:06:22,353 --> 00:06:47,743\n這個董事會提出了這一個Bindingoffer有沒有經過這個董事會的決議或同意是這件事情因為涉及到公司治理的問題他們在協商的過程當中不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情我想說他們未來如果正式要送件他要仔細的說明他整個程序是符合的這時候他們就要自己要去所以他們送過來的時候你們就會去檢查說\n\n18\n00:06:49,284 --> 00:07:05,679\n當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了那所有的文件裡面應該要符合我們的規定假設比如說按照媒體的那個說明它是會按照金空法第26條裡面該送的文件所有的這些過去都非常那如果啦如果\n\n19\n00:07:07,281 --> 00:07:23,169\n這個玉山金他們沒有舉行董事會但是相關的人員他提交具備法律約束力的這個交易價格跟換股比例的話你要這樣子這個最後也收購了那把這些資料送到金管會那這樣子有符合相關的規定嗎\n\n20\n00:07:23,749 --> 00:07:39,520\n金管會的要求就是根據金控法假設是根據26條他必須董事會做成決議經過他們的股東大會決議雙方做成股份轉換契約書檢送相關的這些書件送金管會審查那所以如果沒有經過董事會決議\n\n21\n00:07:40,766 --> 00:08:03,226\n對它是必要的程序這個法條寫得非常清楚所以如果沒有開過董事會然後自行提交這些具有法律約束力的這個交易的價格那是像金管會送件的要求他們前面是他的協商程序對我意思就是說如果沒有經過董事會決議的話那這個程序有符合你們的標準嗎\n\n22\n00:08:03,686 --> 00:08:25,474\n沒有我剛才講說前面的部分是他們協商他最後送過來的時候他必須明確的完成公司治理的程序還有我們法規的要求的程序那所以有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易那主委怎麼評論沒有這應該是他們自己去澄清這是他們自己因為實際上這個這也不是要他們自己去澄清你作為監理機關你也有\n\n23\n00:08:25,774 --> 00:08:49,376\n你有這個資格去要求我們沒有立場幫他代達這個問題你不是代達這個問題我要求的是一個市場秩序公司管理的問題沒有如果他以後他的這些的不完備他當然不能送件而且送件我們也會提出質疑好今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署主委有看過嗎有\n\n24\n00:08:50,973 --> 00:09:17,747\n有有看過對那如果有看過這個我看了警政署刑事檢察局他提到很多的困境那這些困境這個有六點困境那第一個就是說這個金管會公佈已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的原來的這個就是沒有合格的這些洗錢防治法的這些業者他們後續的相關的資料\n\n25\n00:09:18,627 --> 00:09:37,134\n也沒有規範要保存恐怕成為偵辦的斷點然後金管也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址但是不肖業者沒有如實申報然後警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址的資料追求不法金流不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料\n\n26\n00:09:38,214 --> 00:10:06,069\n然後這些如果是來自於境外高風險交易所這個業者也恐涉及申報虛假的資料然後沒有開立發票沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票實際難以比對然後還有如果是大額交易通報的調閱只有匯款人的身分沒有以VASP公司為名的條件來調閱他們遇到這些困境主委要怎麼去處理\n\n27\n00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:35,076\n沒有我想這個警政署應該是善意的提醒善意的提醒因為我看他寫遭遇的困境我想說那利用這個機會讓你回答一下能不能解決這個第一線的偵辦人員的困境仔細看一下我們條文草案裡面其實這些比如說第一項的資料保存我明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存五年而且如果說涉犯這個糾紛要持續的保存我想這個都沒有問題對還有像比如說剛剛那個發票的部分那是財政部的事情\n\n28\n00:10:35,916 --> 00:10:49,830\n他要去做他要去向大和申報那應該跟法務部調查局去做那我想這些部分我覺得所以他遭遇的這六項困境都有辦法處理嗎可以處理這些其實我們那規範裡面都有麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了好不好沒問題這個其實規範裡面都有因為他們在現場你沒有時間讓他們講\n\n29\n00:10:55,296 --> 00:11:13,529\n如果他們講因為他們在第一線遭遇到這些問題我想他們是善意的提醒其實這裡面都有因為我們在開會都有邀請各個單位一起所以是他們沒有進入情況嗎不是他是善意的提醒希望說未來能夠強化這些東西你把書面資料給我其實未來規範其實都有好沒關係先把這個書面資料給我好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝主委謝謝張偉霖接下來有請黃委員33直選\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7012\t19457\t三商美幫人受了招親案這個消息滿天飛剛才很多委員也很關心然後從10月17號的深夜開始到28號的上午11個小時內三家公司陸續發布重訊\n22758\t43590\t市場也解讀說已經介入了最終的結局中信金的重訓是投標案已結束玉山金跟三商售強調對市場傳聞不予評論請教一下主委您知道說現在有關玉山金跟三商售的合併案的過程 您有瞭解嗎\n44229\t66535\t我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這麼一個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好 那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個\n67495\t90513\t到底董事会有没有授权这个溢价来投标如果说董事会有授权溢价跟投标是属于重大转投资的决议那依法应该要公告如果确定交易对象跟金额没有公告就违反了重训的规范第二个董事会至今尚未召开\n91454\t119796\t那如果出具呢 據法律約書裡的文件呢參與投標涉及到公司治理正當性的問題這兩個 一個就是有關這個是不是屬於這個重大的一個訊息要發布然後另外一個是涉及到公司治理的問題那請教這個主委啦第一個 他這個是不是涉及到這個重大的這個訊息必須要公佈因為後來是我們金管會去催他們\n120697\t147490\t他們才發布重大的訊息嗎金管會不會去催這個事情因為這是他跟交易所之間交易所對於在我這邊上市櫃的公司我要求他們再做一些資訊透明他這裡面有努力的非常非常多的了解所以是交易所去要求他們要發布訊息嗎對 所以說有 那外界有這個問題那主要是媒體報導以後我想我們也請交易所交易所也主動的去應該所以是你們請交易所交易所請他們那就差不多就是你們要要求的\n147830\t168884\t沒有 這本來交易所就該做我們是交易所的主管機關當然會請他去做而且我們也跟你講這個結果要請交易所對外說明對 那所以呢所以這個是不是要屬於要發布的重大訊息那他們沒有發布這個是不是重大訊息是由他們來判斷還是由交易所跟他們之間來說認定比如說那主委認不認為這個是重大的訊息\n171041\t176989\t我覺得我應該要這個情況的話我在這邊不方便去講不是 我們按照規定就按照這個相關的規定來看這個是不是很重大的訊息\n182639\t202867\t不過這個部分我剛才講說這個確實我這邊沒有辦法站在經管會立場去說明因為這個事實的情況非常非常複雜你也是監理機關嘛第一個我也沒有參與他們的協商我也沒有參與這個內容還有整個過程就是在我們想法裡面就很簡單這個合併案前面這個它是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項\n203786\t226784\t我想它裡面有一項說會有影響什麼什麼的這個對啊 對上市公司股東權益或證券價格有重大影響對不對這個牽涉到當時的判斷我想有關註券的發布那主委也應該是認為說是有影響才會叫證那個證交所再去因為輿論已經有媒體報導這邊市場這樣我們當然機器主管就說你是交易所是主政單位你當然要去處理對 這當然是啊這個我們\n230192\t252641\t我剛才幾位委員我也說過開記者會的時候政企局的副局長有說過這東西有爭議性證交所就會去查證那目前有查證嗎有啊那查證的結果是什麼沒有 我剛才講說交易所查證完他會對外說明那到現在三天的時間了那就我們會再請交易所進行查證所以這個要查多久啊\n254041\t281292\t這個我就會請交易所盡快去做證件這個我說已經三天了那作為這個金管會你是監理機關那你認為說是幾天查出來是合乎規定的沒有 我想交易所在處理這已經非常非常有經驗因為這個對 就像你講的其實規定都很清楚該不該發布這個重大訊息這其實都有規範那三天時間你們查不出來不是我們查是交易所我們會那那個政經局局長有去查嗎\n286800\t307313\t對 一樣我們剛才已經 剛才講而且交易所應該是有請他們不是 我請這個張局長打一下有去查嗎這個這一段在查核中的事情在查核中 哪時候會有結果等到事實的時間看到結果才能夠判斷什麼結果才能夠判斷我當然知道我的意思是說你們要多久的時間依照一般程序我們就會進行處理一般程序大概是幾天\n316335\t336656\t應該在一週內吧我再問一下主委 這個到底因為外界形容說這個是摸黑交易那個標題是媒體下的你是監理機關 你要做個說明那到底這個有沒有經過這個Binding offer有沒有經過董事會的授權\n338581\t365794\t我想在整個交易的過程當中有各種不同的授權的型態他們如果說這些他們是一個上市會公司他應該按照規定該怎麼對外說明就按照這個來說明不是 因為剛剛主委一直強調說這個公司都會這個有公司治理的相關規定他們都知道如果大家都知道也有遵守的話其實這個金管會也不用那麼辛苦了金管會的存在就是說對於公司治理有問題的地方你們要提出監管\n366294\t381035\t我們不會在一個事情我們完全沒有釐清的情況就在這邊先下結論所以剛剛講過我們是尊重他的體制因為這個重訓的發布不是做重訓的發布啦重訓發布是另外一個那另外一個就是說那到底\n382353\t407743\t這個董事會提出了這一個Binding offer有沒有經過這個董事會的決議或同意是這件事情因為涉及到公司治理的問題他們在協商的過程當中不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情我想說他們未來如果正式要送件他要仔細的說明他整個程序是符合的這時候他們就要自己要去所以他們送過來的時候你們就會去檢查說\n409284\t425679\t當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了那所有的文件裡面應該要符合我們的規定假設比如說按照媒體的那個說明它是會按照金空法第26條裡面該送的文件所有的這些過去都非常那如果啦如果\n427281\t443169\t這個玉山金他們沒有舉行董事會但是相關的人員他提交具備法律約束力的這個交易價格跟換股比例的話你要這樣子這個最後也收購了那把這些資料送到金管會那這樣子有符合相關的規定嗎\n443749\t459520\t金管會的要求就是根據金控法假設是根據26條他必須董事會做成決議經過他們的股東大會決議雙方做成股份轉換契約書檢送相關的這些書件送金管會審查那所以如果沒有經過董事會決議\n460766\t483226\t對 它是必要的程序這個法條寫得非常清楚所以如果沒有開過董事會然後自行提交這些具有法律約束力的這個交易的價格那是像金管會送件的要求他們前面是他的協商程序對我意思就是說如果沒有經過董事會決議的話那這個程序有符合你們的標準嗎\n483686\t505474\t沒有 我剛才講說前面的部分是他們協商他最後送過來的時候他必須明確的完成公司治理的程序還有我們法規的要求的程序那所以有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易那主委怎麼評論沒有 這應該是他們自己去澄清這是他們自己因為實際上這個這也不是要他們自己去澄清你作為監理機關你也有\n505774\t529376\t你有這個資格去要求我們沒有立場幫他代達這個問題你不是代達這個問題我要求的是一個市場秩序公司管理的問題沒有 如果他以後他的這些的不完備他當然不能送件而且送件我們也會提出質疑好 今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署主委有看過嗎有\n530973\t557747\t有 有看過對 那如果有看過這個我看了警政署 刑事檢察局他提到很多的困境那這些困境 這個有六點困境那第一個就是說這個金管會公佈已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的原來的這個就是沒有合格的這些洗錢防治法的這些業者他們後續的相關的資料\n558627\t577134\t也沒有規範要保存恐怕成為偵辦的斷點然後金管也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址但是不肖業者沒有如實申報然後警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址的資料追求不法金流不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料\n578214\t606069\t然後這些如果是來自於境外高風險交易所這個業者也恐涉及申報虛假的資料然後沒有開立發票沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票實際難以比對然後還有如果是大額交易通報的調閱只有匯款人的身分沒有以VASP公司為名的條件來調閱他們遇到這些困境主委要怎麼去處理\n606949\t635076\t沒有 我想這個警政署應該是善意的提醒善意的提醒因為我看他寫遭遇的困境我想說那利用這個機會讓你回答一下能不能解決這個第一線的偵辦人員的困境仔細看一下我們條文草案裡面其實這些比如說第一項的資料保存我明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存五年而且如果說涉犯這個糾紛要持續的保存我想這個都沒有問題對 還有像比如說剛剛那個發票的部分那是財政部的事情\n635916\t649830\t他要去做 他要去向大和申報那應該跟法務部調查局去做那我想這些部分 我覺得所以他遭遇的這六項困境都有辦法處理嗎可以處理 這些其實我們那規範裡面都有麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了好不好沒問題 這個其實規範裡面都有因為他們在現場 你沒有時間讓他們講\n655296\t673529\t如果他們講 因為他們在第一線遭遇到這些問題我想他們是善意的提醒 其實這裡面都有因為我們在開會都有邀請各個單位一起所以是他們沒有進入情況嗎不是 他是善意的提醒 希望說未來能夠強化這些東西你把書面資料給我其實未來規範其實都有好 沒關係 先把這個書面資料給我好 謝謝主委 謝謝委員好 謝謝主委 謝謝張偉霖接下來有請黃委員33直選\n","txt":"三商美幫人受了招親案這個消息滿天飛剛才很多委員也很關心然後從10月17號的深夜開始到28號的上午11個小時內三家公司陸續發布重訊\n市場也解讀說已經介入了最終的結局中信金的重訓是投標案已結束玉山金跟三商售強調對市場傳聞不予評論請教一下主委您知道說現在有關玉山金跟三商售的合併案的過程 您有瞭解嗎\n我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這麼一個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好 那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個\n到底董事会有没有授权这个溢价来投标如果说董事会有授权溢价跟投标是属于重大转投资的决议那依法应该要公告如果确定交易对象跟金额没有公告就违反了重训的规范第二个董事会至今尚未召开\n那如果出具呢 據法律約書裡的文件呢參與投標涉及到公司治理正當性的問題這兩個 一個就是有關這個是不是屬於這個重大的一個訊息要發布然後另外一個是涉及到公司治理的問題那請教這個主委啦第一個 他這個是不是涉及到這個重大的這個訊息必須要公佈因為後來是我們金管會去催他們\n他們才發布重大的訊息嗎金管會不會去催這個事情因為這是他跟交易所之間交易所對於在我這邊上市櫃的公司我要求他們再做一些資訊透明他這裡面有努力的非常非常多的了解所以是交易所去要求他們要發布訊息嗎對 所以說有 那外界有這個問題那主要是媒體報導以後我想我們也請交易所交易所也主動的去應該所以是你們請交易所交易所請他們那就差不多就是你們要要求的\n沒有 這本來交易所就該做我們是交易所的主管機關當然會請他去做而且我們也跟你講這個結果要請交易所對外說明對 那所以呢所以這個是不是要屬於要發布的重大訊息那他們沒有發布這個是不是重大訊息是由他們來判斷還是由交易所跟他們之間來說認定比如說那主委認不認為這個是重大的訊息\n我覺得我應該要這個情況的話我在這邊不方便去講不是 我們按照規定就按照這個相關的規定來看這個是不是很重大的訊息\n不過這個部分我剛才講說這個確實我這邊沒有辦法站在經管會立場去說明因為這個事實的情況非常非常複雜你也是監理機關嘛第一個我也沒有參與他們的協商我也沒有參與這個內容還有整個過程就是在我們想法裡面就很簡單這個合併案前面這個它是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項\n我想它裡面有一項說會有影響什麼什麼的這個對啊 對上市公司股東權益或證券價格有重大影響對不對這個牽涉到當時的判斷我想有關註券的發布那主委也應該是認為說是有影響才會叫證那個證交所再去因為輿論已經有媒體報導這邊市場這樣我們當然機器主管就說你是交易所是主政單位你當然要去處理對 這當然是啊這個我們\n我剛才幾位委員我也說過開記者會的時候政企局的副局長有說過這東西有爭議性證交所就會去查證那目前有查證嗎有啊那查證的結果是什麼沒有 我剛才講說交易所查證完他會對外說明那到現在三天的時間了那就我們會再請交易所進行查證所以這個要查多久啊\n這個我就會請交易所盡快去做證件這個我說已經三天了那作為這個金管會你是監理機關那你認為說是幾天查出來是合乎規定的沒有 我想交易所在處理這已經非常非常有經驗因為這個對 就像你講的其實規定都很清楚該不該發布這個重大訊息這其實都有規範那三天時間你們查不出來不是我們查是交易所我們會那那個政經局局長有去查嗎\n對 一樣我們剛才已經 剛才講而且交易所應該是有請他們不是 我請這個張局長打一下有去查嗎這個這一段在查核中的事情在查核中 哪時候會有結果等到事實的時間看到結果才能夠判斷什麼結果才能夠判斷我當然知道我的意思是說你們要多久的時間依照一般程序我們就會進行處理一般程序大概是幾天\n應該在一週內吧我再問一下主委 這個到底因為外界形容說這個是摸黑交易那個標題是媒體下的你是監理機關 你要做個說明那到底這個有沒有經過這個Binding offer有沒有經過董事會的授權\n我想在整個交易的過程當中有各種不同的授權的型態他們如果說這些他們是一個上市會公司他應該按照規定該怎麼對外說明就按照這個來說明不是 因為剛剛主委一直強調說這個公司都會這個有公司治理的相關規定他們都知道如果大家都知道也有遵守的話其實這個金管會也不用那麼辛苦了金管會的存在就是說對於公司治理有問題的地方你們要提出監管\n我們不會在一個事情我們完全沒有釐清的情況就在這邊先下結論所以剛剛講過我們是尊重他的體制因為這個重訓的發布不是做重訓的發布啦重訓發布是另外一個那另外一個就是說那到底\n這個董事會提出了這一個Binding offer有沒有經過這個董事會的決議或同意是這件事情因為涉及到公司治理的問題他們在協商的過程當中不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情我想說他們未來如果正式要送件他要仔細的說明他整個程序是符合的這時候他們就要自己要去所以他們送過來的時候你們就會去檢查說\n當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了那所有的文件裡面應該要符合我們的規定假設比如說按照媒體的那個說明它是會按照金空法第26條裡面該送的文件所有的這些過去都非常那如果啦如果\n這個玉山金他們沒有舉行董事會但是相關的人員他提交具備法律約束力的這個交易價格跟換股比例的話你要這樣子這個最後也收購了那把這些資料送到金管會那這樣子有符合相關的規定嗎\n金管會的要求就是根據金控法假設是根據26條他必須董事會做成決議經過他們的股東大會決議雙方做成股份轉換契約書檢送相關的這些書件送金管會審查那所以如果沒有經過董事會決議\n對 它是必要的程序這個法條寫得非常清楚所以如果沒有開過董事會然後自行提交這些具有法律約束力的這個交易的價格那是像金管會送件的要求他們前面是他的協商程序對我意思就是說如果沒有經過董事會決議的話那這個程序有符合你們的標準嗎\n沒有 我剛才講說前面的部分是他們協商他最後送過來的時候他必須明確的完成公司治理的程序還有我們法規的要求的程序那所以有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易那主委怎麼評論沒有 這應該是他們自己去澄清這是他們自己因為實際上這個這也不是要他們自己去澄清你作為監理機關你也有\n你有這個資格去要求我們沒有立場幫他代達這個問題你不是代達這個問題我要求的是一個市場秩序公司管理的問題沒有 如果他以後他的這些的不完備他當然不能送件而且送件我們也會提出質疑好 今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署主委有看過嗎有\n有 有看過對 那如果有看過這個我看了警政署 刑事檢察局他提到很多的困境那這些困境 這個有六點困境那第一個就是說這個金管會公佈已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的原來的這個就是沒有合格的這些洗錢防治法的這些業者他們後續的相關的資料\n也沒有規範要保存恐怕成為偵辦的斷點然後金管也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址但是不肖業者沒有如實申報然後警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址的資料追求不法金流不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料\n然後這些如果是來自於境外高風險交易所這個業者也恐涉及申報虛假的資料然後沒有開立發票沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票實際難以比對然後還有如果是大額交易通報的調閱只有匯款人的身分沒有以VASP公司為名的條件來調閱他們遇到這些困境主委要怎麼去處理\n沒有 我想這個警政署應該是善意的提醒善意的提醒因為我看他寫遭遇的困境我想說那利用這個機會讓你回答一下能不能解決這個第一線的偵辦人員的困境仔細看一下我們條文草案裡面其實這些比如說第一項的資料保存我明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存五年而且如果說涉犯這個糾紛要持續的保存我想這個都沒有問題對 還有像比如說剛剛那個發票的部分那是財政部的事情\n他要去做 他要去向大和申報那應該跟法務部調查局去做那我想這些部分 我覺得所以他遭遇的這六項困境都有辦法處理嗎可以處理 這些其實我們那規範裡面都有麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了好不好沒問題 這個其實規範裡面都有因為他們在現場 你沒有時間讓他們講\n如果他們講 因為他們在第一線遭遇到這些問題我想他們是善意的提醒 其實這裡面都有因為我們在開會都有邀請各個單位一起所以是他們沒有進入情況嗎不是 他是善意的提醒 希望說未來能夠強化這些東西你把書面資料給我其實未來規範其實都有好 沒關係 先把這個書面資料給我好 謝謝主委 謝謝委員好 謝謝主委 謝謝張偉霖接下來有請黃委員33直選\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.012 --> 00:19.457\n三商美幫人受了招親案這個消息滿天飛剛才很多委員也很關心然後從10月17號的深夜開始到28號的上午11個小時內三家公司陸續發布重訊\n\n00:22.758 --> 00:43.590\n市場也解讀說已經介入了最終的結局中信金的重訓是投標案已結束玉山金跟三商售強調對市場傳聞不予評論請教一下主委您知道說現在有關玉山金跟三商售的合併案的過程您有瞭解嗎\n\n00:44.229 --> 01:06.535\n我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這麼一個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個\n\n01:07.495 --> 01:30.513\n到底董事会有没有授权这个溢价来投标如果说董事会有授权溢价跟投标是属于重大转投资的决议那依法应该要公告如果确定交易对象跟金额没有公告就违反了重训的规范第二个董事会至今尚未召开\n\n01:31.454 --> 01:59.796\n那如果出具呢據法律約書裡的文件呢參與投標涉及到公司治理正當性的問題這兩個一個就是有關這個是不是屬於這個重大的一個訊息要發布然後另外一個是涉及到公司治理的問題那請教這個主委啦第一個他這個是不是涉及到這個重大的這個訊息必須要公佈因為後來是我們金管會去催他們\n\n02:00.697 --> 02:27.490\n他們才發布重大的訊息嗎金管會不會去催這個事情因為這是他跟交易所之間交易所對於在我這邊上市櫃的公司我要求他們再做一些資訊透明他這裡面有努力的非常非常多的了解所以是交易所去要求他們要發布訊息嗎對所以說有那外界有這個問題那主要是媒體報導以後我想我們也請交易所交易所也主動的去應該所以是你們請交易所交易所請他們那就差不多就是你們要要求的\n\n02:27.830 --> 02:48.884\n沒有這本來交易所就該做我們是交易所的主管機關當然會請他去做而且我們也跟你講這個結果要請交易所對外說明對那所以呢所以這個是不是要屬於要發布的重大訊息那他們沒有發布這個是不是重大訊息是由他們來判斷還是由交易所跟他們之間來說認定比如說那主委認不認為這個是重大的訊息\n\n02:51.041 --> 02:56.989\n我覺得我應該要這個情況的話我在這邊不方便去講不是我們按照規定就按照這個相關的規定來看這個是不是很重大的訊息\n\n03:02.639 --> 03:22.867\n不過這個部分我剛才講說這個確實我這邊沒有辦法站在經管會立場去說明因為這個事實的情況非常非常複雜你也是監理機關嘛第一個我也沒有參與他們的協商我也沒有參與這個內容還有整個過程就是在我們想法裡面就很簡單這個合併案前面這個它是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項\n\n03:23.786 --> 03:46.784\n我想它裡面有一項說會有影響什麼什麼的這個對啊對上市公司股東權益或證券價格有重大影響對不對這個牽涉到當時的判斷我想有關註券的發布那主委也應該是認為說是有影響才會叫證那個證交所再去因為輿論已經有媒體報導這邊市場這樣我們當然機器主管就說你是交易所是主政單位你當然要去處理對這當然是啊這個我們\n\n03:50.192 --> 04:12.641\n我剛才幾位委員我也說過開記者會的時候政企局的副局長有說過這東西有爭議性證交所就會去查證那目前有查證嗎有啊那查證的結果是什麼沒有我剛才講說交易所查證完他會對外說明那到現在三天的時間了那就我們會再請交易所進行查證所以這個要查多久啊\n\n04:14.041 --> 04:41.292\n這個我就會請交易所盡快去做證件這個我說已經三天了那作為這個金管會你是監理機關那你認為說是幾天查出來是合乎規定的沒有我想交易所在處理這已經非常非常有經驗因為這個對就像你講的其實規定都很清楚該不該發布這個重大訊息這其實都有規範那三天時間你們查不出來不是我們查是交易所我們會那那個政經局局長有去查嗎\n\n04:46.800 --> 05:07.313\n對一樣我們剛才已經剛才講而且交易所應該是有請他們不是我請這個張局長打一下有去查嗎這個這一段在查核中的事情在查核中哪時候會有結果等到事實的時間看到結果才能夠判斷什麼結果才能夠判斷我當然知道我的意思是說你們要多久的時間依照一般程序我們就會進行處理一般程序大概是幾天\n\n05:16.335 --> 05:36.656\n應該在一週內吧我再問一下主委這個到底因為外界形容說這個是摸黑交易那個標題是媒體下的你是監理機關你要做個說明那到底這個有沒有經過這個Bindingoffer有沒有經過董事會的授權\n\n05:38.581 --> 06:05.794\n我想在整個交易的過程當中有各種不同的授權的型態他們如果說這些他們是一個上市會公司他應該按照規定該怎麼對外說明就按照這個來說明不是因為剛剛主委一直強調說這個公司都會這個有公司治理的相關規定他們都知道如果大家都知道也有遵守的話其實這個金管會也不用那麼辛苦了金管會的存在就是說對於公司治理有問題的地方你們要提出監管\n\n06:06.294 --> 06:21.035\n我們不會在一個事情我們完全沒有釐清的情況就在這邊先下結論所以剛剛講過我們是尊重他的體制因為這個重訓的發布不是做重訓的發布啦重訓發布是另外一個那另外一個就是說那到底\n\n06:22.353 --> 06:47.743\n這個董事會提出了這一個Bindingoffer有沒有經過這個董事會的決議或同意是這件事情因為涉及到公司治理的問題他們在協商的過程當中不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情我想說他們未來如果正式要送件他要仔細的說明他整個程序是符合的這時候他們就要自己要去所以他們送過來的時候你們就會去檢查說\n\n06:49.284 --> 07:05.679\n當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了那所有的文件裡面應該要符合我們的規定假設比如說按照媒體的那個說明它是會按照金空法第26條裡面該送的文件所有的這些過去都非常那如果啦如果\n\n07:07.281 --> 07:23.169\n這個玉山金他們沒有舉行董事會但是相關的人員他提交具備法律約束力的這個交易價格跟換股比例的話你要這樣子這個最後也收購了那把這些資料送到金管會那這樣子有符合相關的規定嗎\n\n07:23.749 --> 07:39.520\n金管會的要求就是根據金控法假設是根據26條他必須董事會做成決議經過他們的股東大會決議雙方做成股份轉換契約書檢送相關的這些書件送金管會審查那所以如果沒有經過董事會決議\n\n07:40.766 --> 08:03.226\n對它是必要的程序這個法條寫得非常清楚所以如果沒有開過董事會然後自行提交這些具有法律約束力的這個交易的價格那是像金管會送件的要求他們前面是他的協商程序對我意思就是說如果沒有經過董事會決議的話那這個程序有符合你們的標準嗎\n\n08:03.686 --> 08:25.474\n沒有我剛才講說前面的部分是他們協商他最後送過來的時候他必須明確的完成公司治理的程序還有我們法規的要求的程序那所以有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易那主委怎麼評論沒有這應該是他們自己去澄清這是他們自己因為實際上這個這也不是要他們自己去澄清你作為監理機關你也有\n\n08:25.774 --> 08:49.376\n你有這個資格去要求我們沒有立場幫他代達這個問題你不是代達這個問題我要求的是一個市場秩序公司管理的問題沒有如果他以後他的這些的不完備他當然不能送件而且送件我們也會提出質疑好今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署主委有看過嗎有\n\n08:50.973 --> 09:17.747\n有有看過對那如果有看過這個我看了警政署刑事檢察局他提到很多的困境那這些困境這個有六點困境那第一個就是說這個金管會公佈已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的原來的這個就是沒有合格的這些洗錢防治法的這些業者他們後續的相關的資料\n\n09:18.627 --> 09:37.134\n也沒有規範要保存恐怕成為偵辦的斷點然後金管也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址但是不肖業者沒有如實申報然後警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址的資料追求不法金流不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料\n\n09:38.214 --> 10:06.069\n然後這些如果是來自於境外高風險交易所這個業者也恐涉及申報虛假的資料然後沒有開立發票沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票實際難以比對然後還有如果是大額交易通報的調閱只有匯款人的身分沒有以VASP公司為名的條件來調閱他們遇到這些困境主委要怎麼去處理\n\n10:06.949 --> 10:35.076\n沒有我想這個警政署應該是善意的提醒善意的提醒因為我看他寫遭遇的困境我想說那利用這個機會讓你回答一下能不能解決這個第一線的偵辦人員的困境仔細看一下我們條文草案裡面其實這些比如說第一項的資料保存我明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存五年而且如果說涉犯這個糾紛要持續的保存我想這個都沒有問題對還有像比如說剛剛那個發票的部分那是財政部的事情\n\n10:35.916 --> 10:49.830\n他要去做他要去向大和申報那應該跟法務部調查局去做那我想這些部分我覺得所以他遭遇的這六項困境都有辦法處理嗎可以處理這些其實我們那規範裡面都有麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了好不好沒問題這個其實規範裡面都有因為他們在現場你沒有時間讓他們講\n\n10:55.296 --> 11:13.529\n如果他們講因為他們在第一線遭遇到這些問題我想他們是善意的提醒其實這裡面都有因為我們在開會都有邀請各個單位一起所以是他們沒有進入情況嗎不是他是善意的提醒希望說未來能夠強化這些東西你把書面資料給我其實未來規範其實都有好沒關係先把這個書面資料給我好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝主委謝謝張偉霖接下來有請黃委員33直選\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.012,"end":19.457,"text":"三商美幫人受了招親案這個消息滿天飛剛才很多委員也很關心然後從10月17號的深夜開始到28號的上午11個小時內三家公司陸續發布重訊"},{"start":22.758,"end":43.59,"text":"市場也解讀說已經介入了最終的結局中信金的重訓是投標案已結束玉山金跟三商售強調對市場傳聞不予評論請教一下主委您知道說現在有關玉山金跟三商售的合併案的過程 您有瞭解嗎"},{"start":44.229,"end":66.535,"text":"我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這麼一個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好 那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個"},{"start":67.495,"end":90.513,"text":"到底董事会有没有授权这个溢价来投标如果说董事会有授权溢价跟投标是属于重大转投资的决议那依法应该要公告如果确定交易对象跟金额没有公告就违反了重训的规范第二个董事会至今尚未召开"},{"start":91.454,"end":119.796,"text":"那如果出具呢 據法律約書裡的文件呢參與投標涉及到公司治理正當性的問題這兩個 一個就是有關這個是不是屬於這個重大的一個訊息要發布然後另外一個是涉及到公司治理的問題那請教這個主委啦第一個 他這個是不是涉及到這個重大的這個訊息必須要公佈因為後來是我們金管會去催他們"},{"start":120.697,"end":147.49,"text":"他們才發布重大的訊息嗎金管會不會去催這個事情因為這是他跟交易所之間交易所對於在我這邊上市櫃的公司我要求他們再做一些資訊透明他這裡面有努力的非常非常多的了解所以是交易所去要求他們要發布訊息嗎對 所以說有 那外界有這個問題那主要是媒體報導以後我想我們也請交易所交易所也主動的去應該所以是你們請交易所交易所請他們那就差不多就是你們要要求的"},{"start":147.83,"end":168.884,"text":"沒有 這本來交易所就該做我們是交易所的主管機關當然會請他去做而且我們也跟你講這個結果要請交易所對外說明對 那所以呢所以這個是不是要屬於要發布的重大訊息那他們沒有發布這個是不是重大訊息是由他們來判斷還是由交易所跟他們之間來說認定比如說那主委認不認為這個是重大的訊息"},{"start":171.041,"end":176.989,"text":"我覺得我應該要這個情況的話我在這邊不方便去講不是 我們按照規定就按照這個相關的規定來看這個是不是很重大的訊息"},{"start":182.639,"end":202.867,"text":"不過這個部分我剛才講說這個確實我這邊沒有辦法站在經管會立場去說明因為這個事實的情況非常非常複雜你也是監理機關嘛第一個我也沒有參與他們的協商我也沒有參與這個內容還有整個過程就是在我們想法裡面就很簡單這個合併案前面這個它是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項"},{"start":203.786,"end":226.784,"text":"我想它裡面有一項說會有影響什麼什麼的這個對啊 對上市公司股東權益或證券價格有重大影響對不對這個牽涉到當時的判斷我想有關註券的發布那主委也應該是認為說是有影響才會叫證那個證交所再去因為輿論已經有媒體報導這邊市場這樣我們當然機器主管就說你是交易所是主政單位你當然要去處理對 這當然是啊這個我們"},{"start":230.192,"end":252.641,"text":"我剛才幾位委員我也說過開記者會的時候政企局的副局長有說過這東西有爭議性證交所就會去查證那目前有查證嗎有啊那查證的結果是什麼沒有 我剛才講說交易所查證完他會對外說明那到現在三天的時間了那就我們會再請交易所進行查證所以這個要查多久啊"},{"start":254.041,"end":281.292,"text":"這個我就會請交易所盡快去做證件這個我說已經三天了那作為這個金管會你是監理機關那你認為說是幾天查出來是合乎規定的沒有 我想交易所在處理這已經非常非常有經驗因為這個對 就像你講的其實規定都很清楚該不該發布這個重大訊息這其實都有規範那三天時間你們查不出來不是我們查是交易所我們會那那個政經局局長有去查嗎"},{"start":286.8,"end":307.313,"text":"對 一樣我們剛才已經 剛才講而且交易所應該是有請他們不是 我請這個張局長打一下有去查嗎這個這一段在查核中的事情在查核中 哪時候會有結果等到事實的時間看到結果才能夠判斷什麼結果才能夠判斷我當然知道我的意思是說你們要多久的時間依照一般程序我們就會進行處理一般程序大概是幾天"},{"start":316.335,"end":336.656,"text":"應該在一週內吧我再問一下主委 這個到底因為外界形容說這個是摸黑交易那個標題是媒體下的你是監理機關 你要做個說明那到底這個有沒有經過這個Binding offer有沒有經過董事會的授權"},{"start":338.581,"end":365.794,"text":"我想在整個交易的過程當中有各種不同的授權的型態他們如果說這些他們是一個上市會公司他應該按照規定該怎麼對外說明就按照這個來說明不是 因為剛剛主委一直強調說這個公司都會這個有公司治理的相關規定他們都知道如果大家都知道也有遵守的話其實這個金管會也不用那麼辛苦了金管會的存在就是說對於公司治理有問題的地方你們要提出監管"},{"start":366.294,"end":381.035,"text":"我們不會在一個事情我們完全沒有釐清的情況就在這邊先下結論所以剛剛講過我們是尊重他的體制因為這個重訓的發布不是做重訓的發布啦重訓發布是另外一個那另外一個就是說那到底"},{"start":382.353,"end":407.743,"text":"這個董事會提出了這一個Binding offer有沒有經過這個董事會的決議或同意是這件事情因為涉及到公司治理的問題他們在協商的過程當中不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情我想說他們未來如果正式要送件他要仔細的說明他整個程序是符合的這時候他們就要自己要去所以他們送過來的時候你們就會去檢查說"},{"start":409.284,"end":425.679,"text":"當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了那所有的文件裡面應該要符合我們的規定假設比如說按照媒體的那個說明它是會按照金空法第26條裡面該送的文件所有的這些過去都非常那如果啦如果"},{"start":427.281,"end":443.169,"text":"這個玉山金他們沒有舉行董事會但是相關的人員他提交具備法律約束力的這個交易價格跟換股比例的話你要這樣子這個最後也收購了那把這些資料送到金管會那這樣子有符合相關的規定嗎"},{"start":443.749,"end":459.52,"text":"金管會的要求就是根據金控法假設是根據26條他必須董事會做成決議經過他們的股東大會決議雙方做成股份轉換契約書檢送相關的這些書件送金管會審查那所以如果沒有經過董事會決議"},{"start":460.766,"end":483.226,"text":"對 它是必要的程序這個法條寫得非常清楚所以如果沒有開過董事會然後自行提交這些具有法律約束力的這個交易的價格那是像金管會送件的要求他們前面是他的協商程序對我意思就是說如果沒有經過董事會決議的話那這個程序有符合你們的標準嗎"},{"start":483.686,"end":505.474,"text":"沒有 我剛才講說前面的部分是他們協商他最後送過來的時候他必須明確的完成公司治理的程序還有我們法規的要求的程序那所以有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易那主委怎麼評論沒有 這應該是他們自己去澄清這是他們自己因為實際上這個這也不是要他們自己去澄清你作為監理機關你也有"},{"start":505.774,"end":529.376,"text":"你有這個資格去要求我們沒有立場幫他代達這個問題你不是代達這個問題我要求的是一個市場秩序公司管理的問題沒有 如果他以後他的這些的不完備他當然不能送件而且送件我們也會提出質疑好 今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署主委有看過嗎有"},{"start":530.973,"end":557.747,"text":"有 有看過對 那如果有看過這個我看了警政署 刑事檢察局他提到很多的困境那這些困境 這個有六點困境那第一個就是說這個金管會公佈已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的原來的這個就是沒有合格的這些洗錢防治法的這些業者他們後續的相關的資料"},{"start":558.627,"end":577.134,"text":"也沒有規範要保存恐怕成為偵辦的斷點然後金管也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址但是不肖業者沒有如實申報然後警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址的資料追求不法金流不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料"},{"start":578.214,"end":606.069,"text":"然後這些如果是來自於境外高風險交易所這個業者也恐涉及申報虛假的資料然後沒有開立發票沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票實際難以比對然後還有如果是大額交易通報的調閱只有匯款人的身分沒有以VASP公司為名的條件來調閱他們遇到這些困境主委要怎麼去處理"},{"start":606.949,"end":635.076,"text":"沒有 我想這個警政署應該是善意的提醒善意的提醒因為我看他寫遭遇的困境我想說那利用這個機會讓你回答一下能不能解決這個第一線的偵辦人員的困境仔細看一下我們條文草案裡面其實這些比如說第一項的資料保存我明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存五年而且如果說涉犯這個糾紛要持續的保存我想這個都沒有問題對 還有像比如說剛剛那個發票的部分那是財政部的事情"},{"start":635.916,"end":649.83,"text":"他要去做 他要去向大和申報那應該跟法務部調查局去做那我想這些部分 我覺得所以他遭遇的這六項困境都有辦法處理嗎可以處理 這些其實我們那規範裡面都有麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了好不好沒問題 這個其實規範裡面都有因為他們在現場 你沒有時間讓他們講"},{"start":655.296,"end":673.529,"text":"如果他們講 因為他們在第一線遭遇到這些問題我想他們是善意的提醒 其實這裡面都有因為我們在開會都有邀請各個單位一起所以是他們沒有進入情況嗎不是 他是善意的提醒 希望說未來能夠強化這些東西你把書面資料給我其實未來規範其實都有好 沒關係 先把這個書面資料給我好 謝謝主委 謝謝委員好 謝謝主委 謝謝張偉霖接下來有請黃委員33直選"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":583,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（10時39分）謝謝主席，我們請彭主委。"],["主席：有請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：主委好。三商美邦人壽的招親案消息滿天飛，剛才很多委員也很關心，從10月27號的深夜開始，到28號的上午，11個小時內3家公司陸續發布重訊，市場也解讀說已經揭露了最終的結局。中信金的重訊是「投標案已結束」；玉山金跟三商壽強調「對市場傳聞不予評論」，請教一下主委，現在有關玉山金跟三商壽合併案的過程，你有了解嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想整個過程，我們站在金融主管機關的角色，當然是全程掌握，但是因為是個案，我們不方便透露其中的細節。"],["李委員坤城：所以你有全程掌握就對了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然。"],["李委員坤城：既然有全程掌握，我就再請教了。現在有兩個問題，其實剛剛也有很多委員在問，但我認為不管是主委、銀行局或證期局都沒有回答得很清楚。第一個，到底董事會有沒有授權議價投標？如果董事會有授權，那麼議價投標屬於重大轉投資決議，應依法公告；如果確定交易對象跟金額卻沒有公告，就違反重訊規範。第二個，董事會至今尚未召開，若出具據法律約束力的文件參與投標，則涉及公司治理正當性的問題。這兩個問題：一個是這屬不屬於重大訊息要發布？另外一個涉及公司治理的問題。請教主委，首先，這是否涉及重大訊息必須公布？後來是因為金管會去催他們，所以他們才發布重大訊息嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這件事金管會不會去催，因為這是他跟交易所之間的事情。交易所對於上市櫃公司會要求他們要資訊透明，裡面臚列非常非常多要件……"],["李委員坤城：所以是交易所去要求他們要發布重訊嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：外界所以會有這問題，主要是媒體報導以後，我們也請交易所去瞭解，而交易所也主動去對……"],["李委員坤城：所以是你們請交易所，交易所請他們。換言之，差不多就是你們要求的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這本來就是交易所應該做的，我們是交易所的主管機關，當然會請他們去做。而且我們也講了，請交易所要對外說明結果。"],["李委員坤城：所以這是不是屬於要發布的重大訊息，但他們沒有發布？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是否屬於重大訊息由他們來判斷，由交易所跟他們來做認定。比如說……"],["李委員坤城：主委認不認為這是重大訊息？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對這個情況，我不方便在這邊講……"],["李委員坤城：我們就按照相關規定來看，這是不是屬於重大的訊息？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對此，我確實沒有辦法站在金管會的立場去做說明，因為事實情況非常非常複雜……"],["李委員坤城：你也是監理機關啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：第一個，我沒有參與他們的協商，我也沒有參與內容及整個過程。我們的想法其實很簡單，這個合併案前面有非常……"],["李委員坤城：這個合併案是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項？"],["彭主任委員金隆：裡面有一項提及會有影響什麼什麼的情況……"],["李委員坤城：對上市公司之股東權益或證券價格有重大影響，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這牽涉到當時的判斷，我想有關重訊發布……"],["李委員坤城：主委也應該認為有影響，才會叫證交所去……"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為已經有媒體報導了，市場也這樣傳言，我們基於主管機關的立場告訴交易所，而交易所是主政單位，當然要去處理，這點當然是這樣。我剛才也對幾位委員說過……"],["李委員坤城：召開記者會時證期局副局長說，這東西有爭議性，證交所就會去查證。目前有查證嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有。"],["李委員坤城：查證結果是什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我剛才講了，交易所查證完會對外說明。"],["李委員坤城：到現在已經三天時間了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們會再請交易所儘快查明。"],["李委員坤城：這要查多久？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我會請交易所儘快去做這件事。"],["李委員坤城：我說已經三天了！金管會作為監理機關，你認為幾天查出來是合乎規定的？"],["彭主任委員金隆：交易所在處理這類事情上已經非常非常有經驗……"],["李委員坤城：對，就像你講的，其實規定都很清楚，該不該發布重大訊息也都有規範。但是三天時間你們查不出來？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是我們查，是交易所，剛剛跟委員報告過了。"],["李委員坤城：證期局局長有去查嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：一樣，我們剛剛已經講過，而且交易所應該有請他們出來自清……"],["李委員坤城：我請張局長回答，有去查嗎？"],["張局長振山：正在查核中。"],["李委員坤城：還在查核中？哪時候會有結果？"],["張局長振山：等看到事實結果才能夠判斷。"],["李委員坤城：什麼？"],["張局長振山：有結果才能夠判斷。"],["李委員坤城：我當然知道。我的意思是說你們需要多久時間？"],["張局長振山：只要依照一般程序，我們就會進行處理。"],["李委員坤城：一般程序大概是幾天？"],["張局長振山：應該在一週內，看他們查的結果……"],["李委員坤城：一週內？好。我再問一下主委，外界形容這是摸黑交易……"],["彭主任委員金隆：標題是媒體下的。"],["李委員坤城：對，但你是監理機關，你要做說明，到底這個binding offer有沒有經過董事會授權？"],["彭主任委員金隆：在整個交易過程當中有各種不同的授權型態，如果他們是一間上市櫃公司，就應該按照規定辦理，該怎麼對外說明就按照規定說明。"],["李委員坤城：剛剛主委一直強調，他們都知道公司治理的相關規定，但如果大家都知道，也有遵守的話，金管會也不用那麼辛苦了！金管會的存在就是對於公司治理有問題的地方要提出監管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們不會在一件事情尚未完全釐清的情況下，就在這邊先下結論。所以我剛剛講過，我們尊重他的體制，況且重訊的發布是上市櫃公司與交易所之間……"],["李委員坤城：不是只有重訊的發布，重訊發布是另外一個問題。到底這個binding offer的提出，有沒有經過董事會的決議或同意？我想問的是這件事情，因為這涉及公司治理的問題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們在協商過程當中，不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情。但未來如果正式要送件，他們就要仔細說明整個程序是符合的，這時候他們就要自己說明這些內容……"],["李委員坤城：所以他們送過來時你們就會去檢查……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，這整個程序……"],["李委員坤城：當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們所有文件都應該要符合我們的規定，按照媒體報導，將依照金控法第二十六條所規定的文件來送件，這些過去都非常有經驗。"],["李委員坤城：如果玉山金沒有舉行董事會，但相關人員卻提交具備法律約束力的交易價格跟換股比例，且最後完成收購，也把這些資料送到金管會，這樣有符合相關規定嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：金管會的要求就是根據金控法，假設是根據第二十六條必須由董事會作成決議，再經過股東大會決議，雙方做成股份轉換契約書，再檢送相關書件送金管會審查。"],["李委員坤城：如果沒有經過董事會決議呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這是必要的程序，法條寫得非常清楚。"],["李委員坤城：如果沒有開過董事會，就自行提交這些具有法律約束力的交易價格……"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，那是向金管會送件的要求，而前面是他們的協商程序。"],["李委員坤城：當然，我的意思就是，如果沒有經過董事會決議，這樣的程序還符合你們的標準嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛才講了，前面的部分是他們的協商，但最後送過來時必須明確完成公司治理的程序及法規所要求的程序。"],["李委員坤城：有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易，主委怎麼評論？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這應該由他們自己去澄清，這是他們自己……因為實際上……"],["李委員坤城：這也不是要他們自己去澄清，作為監理機關，你也有資格去要求。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們沒有立場幫他代答這問題。"],["李委員坤城：不是代答問題，我要求的是市場秩序、公司管理的問題！"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果以後他的這些程序不完備，當然不能送件，即使送件了，我們也會提出質疑。"],["李委員坤城：好。今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署在內，主委有看過嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有。"],["李委員坤城：有？有看過？警政署刑事警察局提到面臨很多困境，這些困境一共有六點，其中，金管會公布已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的……即原來沒有合於洗錢防治法規範的這些業者，但他們後續的相關資料並沒有規範要保存，此舉恐將成為偵辦的斷點。金管會也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址，但是不肖業者沒有如實申報，警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址資料，即使要追查不法金流，也不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料。若是來自境外高風險交易所，業者恐涉及申報虛假資料，且沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票，實際上難以比對。如果是大額交易的通報調閱，只有匯款人的身分，沒有以VASP公司為名的條件可以調閱。對於警方所遇到的困境，主委要怎麼去處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這應該是警政署善意的提醒……"],["李委員坤城：善意的提醒？我看他寫的是遭遇的困境，所以想利用機會讓你回答一下，看能不能解決第一線偵辦人員的困境？"],["彭主任委員金隆：請委員仔細看一下我們的條文草案，比如第一項的資料保存，我們明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存5年，若涉犯糾紛則需持續保存，所以我想都沒有問題。"],["李委員坤城：都沒有問題？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。比如說剛才講的發票部分則是財政部的事情，他要去做，應該要大額申報，而且應該跟法務部調查局去做。我想這些部分我們跟警政署可以……"],["李委員坤城：所以警方所遭遇的六項困境都有辦法處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：可以處理，這些其實在我們的規範裡面都有。"],["李委員坤城：那麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒問題，這個其實在我們的規範裡面都有。"],["李委員坤城：其實他們都有在現場，但現在沒有時間讓他們講，因為他們都在第一線，如果遭遇到這些問題……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想他們是善意的提醒，其實這裡面都有啦，因為我們在開會時都有邀請各個單位一起討論。"],["李委員坤城：所以是他們沒有進入狀況嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是！他是善意的提醒，我剛才說過，我希望未來能夠強化這些東西。"],["李委員坤城：好，善意的提醒！請你把書面資料給我。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實未來規範裡面都有啦。"],["李委員坤城：好，沒關係，先把這個書面資料給我，謝謝主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝主委、謝謝召委。","接下來有請黃委員珊珊質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-5","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","吳秉叡","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","王世堅","葛如鈞","吳宗憲","羅明才","王鴻薇","林思銘","李彥秀","林楚茵"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、中央銀行、法務部、內政部警政署就「虛擬資產服務\n法草案及其相關子法修訂暨建立完善監理架構之進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00011"}}}