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{\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 802.906, \"end\": 803.046, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 803.046, \"end\": 803.246, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 803.246, \"end\": 803.567, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 803.567, \"end\": 803.707, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 803.707, \"end\": 804.508, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 804.508, \"end\": 804.628, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 804.628, \"end\": 804.728, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 804.728, \"end\": 805.209, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 805.209, \"end\": 805.229, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,111 --> 00:00:00,212\n來請施部長\n\n2\n00:00:07,174 --> 00:00:30,511\n林委員好部長我再接續剛才廖委員的這個質詢就省紀部在今年的非洲豬瘟事件發生以前7月29號就發布了這個總決算的審核報告那這裡面指出這個食藥署大家都知道邊境抱怨的批次從76萬餘批比這個當初109年69萬餘批成長了將近一成\n\n3\n00:00:36,295 --> 00:00:42,760\n在這種狀況裡面他們覺得說中國大陸的貨品除了經濟部公告准許輸入和專案核准以外不得輸入的狀況但是坊間非常多的中國大陸產製的麻辣花生螺絲粉等非屬核准輸入產品在國內流通販售的情勢衍生了食安的疑慮這個是審計部的調查報告裡面寫的審核報告裡面寫的\n\n4\n00:01:05,876 --> 00:01:29,014\n然後呢你們他再查了一下就說你們這個去年112年還有113年兩年之間他們看了一下地方政府的稽查業者兩萬餘次查獲的違規只有71案其中都是在夜市商行實體通路查獲網路平台只有一案在這種狀況裡面審計部認為說這個\n\n5\n00:01:35,139 --> 00:01:53,011\n對國內的衛生安全有很大的疑慮然後講到你們自己剛剛講的108年你們自己開放了自己去開放了這個1000美金以下重量6公斤以下這個免申請這個查驗這個是你們自己開放的在這種狀況裡面他就剛才廖委員質詢也有講到所以這個審計部\n\n6\n00:02:00,723 --> 00:02:04,344\n這一年過去113年有70幾萬個人申請我免查驗啦然後最離譜的是第一名的人那一個人一年申請了3002次然後他每天一年365天一共有294天294天天天都申報這個進口免查驗的這一些化整為零的輸入\n\n7\n00:02:29,668 --> 00:02:42,834\n然後大家當初都是知道說這同意自用的話免查驗可是天天輸入一年輸入294天一共輸入了3002批次化整為零\n\n8\n00:02:43,865 --> 00:03:09,745\n違規的拿去哪裡使用了還自用了欸而你們自己都知道109年你就發現這有問題了可是你們就是沒有辦法改而且不願意改你就說大家都反對就不改了那今年呢我們就看到深五環的第一環邊境主角就在這裡大家認為說這裡破口跟著貨櫃進來違規拿去平台賣有沒有可能\n\n9\n00:03:10,766 --> 00:03:33,433\n當然部長你講的更好笑這些都免查驗了你說還在查驗他哪裡查驗跟委員說明這確實是有一些國人自用的需求沒有啦我問你是這些都用免查驗的你剛才還可以回答委員說他們還是有查驗不是查驗啦應該是這樣子講他在邊境他還是郵包還是要驗還是會被抽驗啦\n\n10\n00:03:34,013 --> 00:03:38,537\n抽驗嘛所以偶爾抽一下但是我現在再問你喔嚴肅的問你喔申請免查驗的1000美金以下的還有這個6公斤以下的會抽驗嗎海關有抽驗嗎有抽驗嗎你剛才講你剛才回答委員說還是有查驗現在我問你你說會抽驗到底有沒有真的有抽驗\n\n11\n00:03:59,997 --> 00:04:06,162\n沒有嘛沒有嘛完全沒有把關長驅直入可是剛才第一名那個其實我們在9月10號我現在告訴你就是說就是沒有我們要講這個個案啦我在講因為你們開放的108年這個門就是你開的\n\n12\n00:04:21,753 --> 00:04:34,557\n而開了以後完全連抽菸都沒有長驅直入而且大家化整為零而且以同意自用為名就違規的拿去販賣其實商業販售你開放了但你要有管理的配套\n\n13\n00:04:39,278 --> 00:04:58,252\n你開放了那你的管理配套在哪裡你的後市場茶宴有嗎難怪大家都問我大家都問立委夜市大家都看得到更不要講網路平台網路平台所以更不要講阻絕於邊境這都是你們開放的沒錯你們開放的\n\n14\n00:05:00,934 --> 00:05:15,280\n在這種狀況審計部的報告我們可以得知到幾個重點第一個你們事實上開放以後流入了台灣的市面然後事實上地方政府跟你們去做的稽查強度則為不足道實體通路兩年查獲71件網路查獲1件第二個我們都看到個人名義自用屬於西北人的嘛\n\n15\n00:05:29,887 --> 00:05:59,141\n第三你們的稽查事實上是沒有在講網路販售的這個平台了網路販售除非從中國郵寄但也有從台灣出貨的簡體字的一大堆那網路販售他怎麼到台灣的賣家然後可以直接賣出去他販賣地點可能從雲林寄出來的可能從高雄寄出來的他就是有貨品直接在這個賣家手上\n\n16\n00:06:00,202 --> 00:06:24,421\n然後呢你們去查了一件兩年只查到一件然後你們回答這個審計部然後就說我們會加強查稽查然後呢沒了然後就沒了請問這個部長署長我4月就質詢了部長那時候你還沒有上任當部長但在今年的4月我就質詢過署長了\n\n17\n00:06:26,345 --> 00:06:53,005\n我們在講說我現在回到網路平台這件事違法輸入的業者和產品的品項是不是在實體通路和網路平台都消失了然後還是說這些業者避避風頭立委質詢了然後政府管了一下子了先下架但事過境天一個月以後又開始賣了賣得下下叫還在賣\n\n18\n00:06:54,244 --> 00:07:12,978\n你看昨天的昨天的截圖還在賣還在賣隨便隨便都有請問一下這些有沒有申請輸入查驗他怎麼進來的簡體制全部都簡體制有沒有輸入許可有沒有申請查驗\n\n19\n00:07:17,218 --> 00:07:43,719\n連審計單位都要跟你講這有食安的疑慮耶7月29到現在發現有國安的疑慮因為豬瘟沒有豬瘟也有食安的疑慮耶請問一下審計部要求食藥署研議強化網路販售食品的稽查作為在哪裡署長你可以告訴我保證網路平台上現在去上網去看的都有申請輸入查驗的嗎\n\n20\n00:07:45,687 --> 00:08:11,846\n這邊跟委員報告一下因為委員4月份提醒之後我們非常認真的去做因為我們目前沒有電子商務法所以我們其實已經提出了修法市民安全衛生管理法法條現在躺在哪裡第三條對啦法條現在躺在哪裡你說要修法從4月講到現在了對我們持續在有些半年了對我們會持續把這個速度再加快現在法在哪裡到行政院了沒\n\n21\n00:08:12,666 --> 00:08:38,513\n目前還沒有出衛福部了沒沒有半年了我們繼續加緊速度第一個部分剛才如委員所說的如何對於平台業者販賣業者課予所謂的行政義務的電商平台的義務的這是第一個部分第二個部分是他要強制你不要跟我講修法的內容我知道啦但是我現在告訴你在修法以前人家就是這樣進來的今天國安破口防疫的破口難道這裡不可能嗎\n\n22\n00:08:41,014 --> 00:09:03,138\n現在網路上如果講食安平台上販賣的都有申請查驗嗎你不知道你不知道事實上是沒有啦的確是沒有現在我再講中央主管機關是屬於安全的這個主責機關你開放了我再講你108年的開放開放了免申請查驗卻沒有濫用這個制度的把關機制\n\n23\n00:09:04,858 --> 00:09:32,472\n你說你要限縮再限縮美金大概要多少要再限縮公斤重量要再限縮這樣就好了嗎你們的配套會是什麼你們的配套會是什麼你們給人家開了一個門然後東西都進來你沒有管理的辦法也沒有人在管理這像話嗎不然你一開門說有需要配套也要有啊配套是什麼\n\n24\n00:09:33,581 --> 00:09:52,854\n你現在降低提高了門檻了那還是要有配套啊我們其實特別是針對用抱怨勾擊的方式對異常的我們會積極的去查核這邊謝謝委員的提醒電商平台修法義務草案我現在在講說你們個人自用免查驗的\n\n25\n00:09:54,778 --> 00:10:23,917\n其實我還不好意思講除了從海關進來的更多的是大家喔跑單幫的啦跑單幫小三通我每天去廈門再進來廈門進來一天可以跑五次跑十次化整為零啦個人攜帶的啦對不對怎麼會大家都看得到夜市全部滿街都是中國的食品啦肉製品啦\n\n26\n00:10:25,578 --> 00:10:54,299\n在台灣網路平台販賣的簡體製的很多啦所以我們在講食安五環在這裡食藥署你們開了門然後兩手一攤毫無作為這樣的食安防線誰能夠放心呢所以你說要有配套要查緝你也對我們講說要查緝你也對審計部說要查緝不要讓查緝兩個字成為笑話也不要讓食安防線成為笑話\n\n27\n00:10:56,533 --> 00:11:25,048\n保定你前幾天接受媒體採訪部長9月1號你接任以來你說食安的壓力最大你一再的告誡同仁食安事件沒有妥協的空間從今天各項的討論和資料可以看到你們是要屬管理食安進步的空間還很大我們認為你必須要展開結構性的改革不要再以事件處理的方式來面對\n\n28\n00:11:26,587 --> 00:11:30,891\n你不要每次都用事件處理去取代制度上的修正\n\n29\n00:11:32,034 --> 00:11:58,157\n這是連你們組織內包括法律法規的管制面已經是嚴重的制度的缺口了而署長承諾我們要修法半年前半年後還躺在你們衛福部還躺在食藥署連出你們衛福部都沒有如果這是最重要的事情很緊急的事情為什麼拖半年還沒到行政院還沒到立法院來\n\n30\n00:11:59,562 --> 00:12:13,181\n所以這種牛布化是管理的方式嗎大家都這樣清清菜菜給省紀部運營的然後到這裡答詢立委蓄意為夷署長站在台上撐過10分鐘就交差了\n\n31\n00:12:14,518 --> 00:12:36,958\n這樣能夠讓人民感受到政府守護食安的決心和行動力嗎所以台灣的食品安全就是這樣一次又一次信心垮掉了所以我們要重新的建立起這個信心你必須走向制度化專業化而不是一次又一次的只是危機處理應變而不是只是事件處理應變\n\n32\n00:12:38,717 --> 00:12:57,737\n保證是不是什麼時候什麼時候可以給我們制度上的改變保證這個我們一個月提出檢討他已經檢討半年了啦一個月內我們會把它再重新再檢討它的漏洞那該提出的修法年底前我們都會提出來\n\n33\n00:12:58,197 --> 00:13:25,229\n年底前喔年底剩下多久兩個月喔好OK食藥署進步的空間還很大署長謝謝謝謝委員我們第一個就把我們的相關的訊息給各位委員其實能夠有看到那修法的內涵內容其實都請各位委員多多救教謝謝好了我們要休息了啦抱歉休息時間抱歉我還是要提醒部長和署長剛剛真的是時間不夠\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n111\t212\t來 請施部長\n7174\t30511\t林委員好部長 我再接續剛才廖委員的這個質詢就省紀部在今年的非洲豬瘟事件發生以前7月29號就發布了這個總決算的審核報告那這裡面指出這個食藥署大家都知道邊境抱怨的批次從76萬餘批比這個當初109年69萬餘批成長了將近一成\n36295\t42760\t在這種狀況裡面他們覺得說中國大陸的貨品除了經濟部公告准許輸入和專案核准以外不得輸入的狀況但是坊間非常多的中國大陸產製的麻辣花生螺絲粉等非屬核准輸入產品在國內流通販售的情勢衍生了食安的疑慮這個是審計部的調查報告裡面寫的審核報告裡面寫的\n65876\t89014\t然後呢你們他再查了一下就說你們這個去年112年還有113年兩年之間他們看了一下地方政府的稽查業者兩萬餘次查獲的違規只有71案其中都是在夜市商行實體通路查獲網路平台只有一案在這種狀況裡面審計部認為說這個\n95139\t113011\t對國內的衛生安全有很大的疑慮然後講到你們自己剛剛講的108年你們自己開放了自己去開放了這個1000美金以下重量6公斤以下這個免申請這個查驗這個是你們自己開放的在這種狀況裡面他就剛才廖委員質詢也有講到所以這個審計部\n120723\t124344\t這一年過去113年有70幾萬個人申請我免查驗啦然後最離譜的是第一名的人那一個人一年申請了3002次然後他每天一年365天一共有294天294天天天都申報這個進口免查驗的這一些化整為零的輸入\n149668\t162834\t然後大家當初都是知道說這同意自用的話免查驗可是天天輸入一年輸入294天一共輸入了3002批次化整為零\n163865\t189745\t違規的拿去哪裡使用了還自用了欸而你們自己都知道109年你就發現這有問題了可是你們就是沒有辦法改而且不願意改你就說大家都反對就不改了那今年呢我們就看到深五環的第一環邊境主角就在這裡大家認為說這裡破口跟著貨櫃進來違規拿去平台賣有沒有可能\n190766\t213433\t當然部長你講的更好笑 這些都免查驗了 你說還在查驗他哪裡查驗跟委員說明 這確實是有一些國人自用的需求沒有啦 我問你是這些都用免查驗的你剛才還可以回答委員說他們還是有查驗不是查驗啦 應該是這樣子講他在邊境 他還是郵包還是要驗 還是會被抽驗啦\n214013\t218537\t抽驗嘛 所以偶爾抽一下但是我現在再問你喔 嚴肅的問你喔申請免查驗的1000美金以下的還有這個6公斤以下的會抽驗嗎 海關有抽驗嗎有抽驗嗎 你剛才講 你剛才回答委員說還是有查驗現在我問你 你說會抽驗 到底有沒有真的有抽驗\n239997\t246162\t沒有嘛沒有嘛完全沒有把關長驅直入可是剛才第一名那個其實我們在9月10號我現在告訴你就是說就是沒有我們要講這個個案啦我在講因為你們開放的108年這個門就是你開的\n261753\t274557\t而開了以後完全連抽菸都沒有長驅直入而且大家化整為零而且以同意自用為名就違規的拿去販賣其實商業販售你開放了但你要有管理的配套\n279278\t298252\t你開放了 那你的管理配套在哪裡 你的後市場茶宴有嗎難怪大家都問我 大家都問立委 夜市大家都看得到更不要講網路平台 網路平台所以更不要講阻絕於邊境 這都是你們開放的 沒錯 你們開放的\n300934\t315280\t在這種狀況 審計部的報告我們可以得知到幾個重點第一個 你們事實上開放以後流入了台灣的市面然後事實上地方政府跟你們去做的稽查強度則為不足道實體通路兩年查獲71件網路查獲1件第二個 我們都看到個人名義自用 屬於西北人的嘛\n329887\t359141\t第三你們的稽查事實上是沒有在講網路販售的這個平台了網路販售除非從中國郵寄但也有從台灣出貨的簡體字的一大堆那網路販售他怎麼到台灣的賣家然後可以直接賣出去他販賣地點可能從雲林寄出來的可能從高雄寄出來的他就是有貨品直接在這個賣家手上\n360202\t384421\t然後呢 你們去查了一件 兩年只查到一件然後你們回答這個審計部然後就說我們會加強查 稽查然後呢 沒了 然後就沒了請問這個部長 署長 我4月就質詢了部長那時候你還沒有上任當部長但在今年的4月我就質詢過署長了\n386345\t413005\t我們在講說我現在回到網路平台這件事違法輸入的業者和產品的品項是不是在實體通路和網路平台都消失了然後還是說這些業者避避風頭立委質詢了然後政府管了一下子了先下架但事過境天一個月以後又開始賣了 賣得下下叫 還在賣\n414244\t432978\t你看昨天的昨天的截圖還在賣還在賣隨便隨便都有請問一下這些有沒有申請輸入查驗他怎麼進來的簡體制全部都簡體制有沒有輸入許可有沒有申請查驗\n437218\t463719\t連審計單位都要跟你講這有食安的疑慮耶7月29到現在發現有國安的疑慮因為豬瘟沒有豬瘟也有食安的疑慮耶請問一下審計部要求食藥署研議強化網路販售食品的稽查作為在哪裡署長你可以告訴我保證網路平台上現在去上網去看的都有申請輸入查驗的嗎\n465687\t491846\t這邊跟委員報告一下 因為委員4月份提醒之後我們非常認真的去做因為我們目前沒有電子商務法所以我們其實已經提出了修法 市民安全 衛生 管理法法條現在躺在哪裡第三條 對啦 法條現在躺在哪裡你說要修法從4月講到現在了對 我們持續在有些半年了對 我們會持續把這個速度再加快現在法在哪裡 到行政院了沒\n492666\t518513\t目前還沒有 出衛福部了沒沒有 半年了 我們繼續加緊速度第一個部分剛才如委員所說的如何對於平台業者 販賣業者課予所謂的行政義務的 電商平台的義務的這是第一個部分 第二個部分是他要強制你不要跟我講修法的內容 我知道啦但是我現在告訴你 在修法以前人家就是這樣進來的今天國安破口 防疫的破口難道這裡不可能嗎\n521014\t543138\t現在網路上如果講食安平台上販賣的都有申請查驗嗎你不知道 你不知道 事實上是沒有啦的確是沒有現在我再講中央主管機關是屬於安全的這個主責機關你開放了 我再講你108年的開放開放了免申請查驗卻沒有濫用這個制度的把關機制\n544858\t572472\t你說你要限縮再限縮美金大概要多少要再限縮公斤重量要再限縮這樣就好了嗎你們的配套會是什麼你們的配套會是什麼你們給人家開了一個門然後東西都進來你沒有管理的辦法也沒有人在管理這像話嗎不然你一開門說有需要配套也要有啊配套是什麼\n573581\t592854\t你現在降低提高了門檻了那還是要有配套啊我們其實特別是針對用抱怨勾擊的方式對異常的我們會積極的去查核這邊謝謝委員的提醒電商平台修法義務草案我現在在講說你們個人自用免查驗的\n594778\t623917\t其實我還不好意思講除了從海關進來的更多的是大家喔 跑單幫的啦跑單幫小三通我每天去廈門再進來廈門進來一天可以跑五次跑十次化整為零啦個人攜帶的啦對不對怎麼會大家都看得到夜市全部滿街都是中國的食品啦肉製品啦\n625578\t654299\t在台灣網路平台販賣的簡體製的很多啦所以我們在講食安五環在這裡食藥署你們開了門然後兩手一攤毫無作為這樣的食安防線誰能夠放心呢所以你說要有配套要查緝你也對我們講說要查緝你也對審計部說要查緝不要讓查緝兩個字成為笑話也不要讓食安防線成為笑話\n656533\t685048\t保定你前幾天接受媒體採訪部長9月1號你接任以來你說食安的壓力最大你一再的告誡同仁食安事件沒有妥協的空間從今天各項的討論和資料可以看到你們是要屬管理食安進步的空間還很大我們認為你必須要展開結構性的改革不要再以事件處理的方式來面對\n686587\t690891\t你不要每次都用事件處理去取代制度上的修正\n692034\t718157\t這是連你們組織內包括法律法規的管制面已經是嚴重的制度的缺口了而署長承諾我們要修法半年前半年後還躺在你們衛福部還躺在食藥署連出你們衛福部都沒有如果這是最重要的事情很緊急的事情為什麼拖半年還沒到行政院還沒到立法院來\n719562\t733181\t所以這種牛布化是管理的方式嗎大家都這樣清清菜菜給省紀部運營的然後到這裡答詢立委 蓄意為夷署長站在台上撐過10分鐘就交差了\n734518\t756958\t這樣能夠讓人民感受到政府守護食安的決心和行動力嗎所以台灣的食品安全就是這樣一次又一次信心垮掉了所以我們要重新的建立起這個信心你必須走向制度化專業化而不是一次又一次的只是危機處理應變而不是只是事件處理應變\n758717\t777737\t保證是不是什麼時候什麼時候可以給我們制度上的改變保證這個我們一個月提出檢討他已經檢討半年了啦一個月內我們會把它再重新再檢討它的漏洞那該提出的修法年底前我們都會提出來\n778197\t805229\t年底前喔 年底剩下多久 兩個月喔 好 OK食藥署進步的空間還很大 署長 謝謝謝謝委員 我們第一個就把我們的相關的訊息給各位委員其實能夠有看到 那修法的內涵 內容其實都請各位委員多多救教 謝謝好了 我們要休息了啦 抱歉 休息時間 抱歉我還是要提醒部長和署長 剛剛真的是時間不夠\n","txt":"來 請施部長\n林委員好部長 我再接續剛才廖委員的這個質詢就省紀部在今年的非洲豬瘟事件發生以前7月29號就發布了這個總決算的審核報告那這裡面指出這個食藥署大家都知道邊境抱怨的批次從76萬餘批比這個當初109年69萬餘批成長了將近一成\n在這種狀況裡面他們覺得說中國大陸的貨品除了經濟部公告准許輸入和專案核准以外不得輸入的狀況但是坊間非常多的中國大陸產製的麻辣花生螺絲粉等非屬核准輸入產品在國內流通販售的情勢衍生了食安的疑慮這個是審計部的調查報告裡面寫的審核報告裡面寫的\n然後呢你們他再查了一下就說你們這個去年112年還有113年兩年之間他們看了一下地方政府的稽查業者兩萬餘次查獲的違規只有71案其中都是在夜市商行實體通路查獲網路平台只有一案在這種狀況裡面審計部認為說這個\n對國內的衛生安全有很大的疑慮然後講到你們自己剛剛講的108年你們自己開放了自己去開放了這個1000美金以下重量6公斤以下這個免申請這個查驗這個是你們自己開放的在這種狀況裡面他就剛才廖委員質詢也有講到所以這個審計部\n這一年過去113年有70幾萬個人申請我免查驗啦然後最離譜的是第一名的人那一個人一年申請了3002次然後他每天一年365天一共有294天294天天天都申報這個進口免查驗的這一些化整為零的輸入\n然後大家當初都是知道說這同意自用的話免查驗可是天天輸入一年輸入294天一共輸入了3002批次化整為零\n違規的拿去哪裡使用了還自用了欸而你們自己都知道109年你就發現這有問題了可是你們就是沒有辦法改而且不願意改你就說大家都反對就不改了那今年呢我們就看到深五環的第一環邊境主角就在這裡大家認為說這裡破口跟著貨櫃進來違規拿去平台賣有沒有可能\n當然部長你講的更好笑 這些都免查驗了 你說還在查驗他哪裡查驗跟委員說明 這確實是有一些國人自用的需求沒有啦 我問你是這些都用免查驗的你剛才還可以回答委員說他們還是有查驗不是查驗啦 應該是這樣子講他在邊境 他還是郵包還是要驗 還是會被抽驗啦\n抽驗嘛 所以偶爾抽一下但是我現在再問你喔 嚴肅的問你喔申請免查驗的1000美金以下的還有這個6公斤以下的會抽驗嗎 海關有抽驗嗎有抽驗嗎 你剛才講 你剛才回答委員說還是有查驗現在我問你 你說會抽驗 到底有沒有真的有抽驗\n沒有嘛沒有嘛完全沒有把關長驅直入可是剛才第一名那個其實我們在9月10號我現在告訴你就是說就是沒有我們要講這個個案啦我在講因為你們開放的108年這個門就是你開的\n而開了以後完全連抽菸都沒有長驅直入而且大家化整為零而且以同意自用為名就違規的拿去販賣其實商業販售你開放了但你要有管理的配套\n你開放了 那你的管理配套在哪裡 你的後市場茶宴有嗎難怪大家都問我 大家都問立委 夜市大家都看得到更不要講網路平台 網路平台所以更不要講阻絕於邊境 這都是你們開放的 沒錯 你們開放的\n在這種狀況 審計部的報告我們可以得知到幾個重點第一個 你們事實上開放以後流入了台灣的市面然後事實上地方政府跟你們去做的稽查強度則為不足道實體通路兩年查獲71件網路查獲1件第二個 我們都看到個人名義自用 屬於西北人的嘛\n第三你們的稽查事實上是沒有在講網路販售的這個平台了網路販售除非從中國郵寄但也有從台灣出貨的簡體字的一大堆那網路販售他怎麼到台灣的賣家然後可以直接賣出去他販賣地點可能從雲林寄出來的可能從高雄寄出來的他就是有貨品直接在這個賣家手上\n然後呢 你們去查了一件 兩年只查到一件然後你們回答這個審計部然後就說我們會加強查 稽查然後呢 沒了 然後就沒了請問這個部長 署長 我4月就質詢了部長那時候你還沒有上任當部長但在今年的4月我就質詢過署長了\n我們在講說我現在回到網路平台這件事違法輸入的業者和產品的品項是不是在實體通路和網路平台都消失了然後還是說這些業者避避風頭立委質詢了然後政府管了一下子了先下架但事過境天一個月以後又開始賣了 賣得下下叫 還在賣\n你看昨天的昨天的截圖還在賣還在賣隨便隨便都有請問一下這些有沒有申請輸入查驗他怎麼進來的簡體制全部都簡體制有沒有輸入許可有沒有申請查驗\n連審計單位都要跟你講這有食安的疑慮耶7月29到現在發現有國安的疑慮因為豬瘟沒有豬瘟也有食安的疑慮耶請問一下審計部要求食藥署研議強化網路販售食品的稽查作為在哪裡署長你可以告訴我保證網路平台上現在去上網去看的都有申請輸入查驗的嗎\n這邊跟委員報告一下 因為委員4月份提醒之後我們非常認真的去做因為我們目前沒有電子商務法所以我們其實已經提出了修法 市民安全 衛生 管理法法條現在躺在哪裡第三條 對啦 法條現在躺在哪裡你說要修法從4月講到現在了對 我們持續在有些半年了對 我們會持續把這個速度再加快現在法在哪裡 到行政院了沒\n目前還沒有 出衛福部了沒沒有 半年了 我們繼續加緊速度第一個部分剛才如委員所說的如何對於平台業者 販賣業者課予所謂的行政義務的 電商平台的義務的這是第一個部分 第二個部分是他要強制你不要跟我講修法的內容 我知道啦但是我現在告訴你 在修法以前人家就是這樣進來的今天國安破口 防疫的破口難道這裡不可能嗎\n現在網路上如果講食安平台上販賣的都有申請查驗嗎你不知道 你不知道 事實上是沒有啦的確是沒有現在我再講中央主管機關是屬於安全的這個主責機關你開放了 我再講你108年的開放開放了免申請查驗卻沒有濫用這個制度的把關機制\n你說你要限縮再限縮美金大概要多少要再限縮公斤重量要再限縮這樣就好了嗎你們的配套會是什麼你們的配套會是什麼你們給人家開了一個門然後東西都進來你沒有管理的辦法也沒有人在管理這像話嗎不然你一開門說有需要配套也要有啊配套是什麼\n你現在降低提高了門檻了那還是要有配套啊我們其實特別是針對用抱怨勾擊的方式對異常的我們會積極的去查核這邊謝謝委員的提醒電商平台修法義務草案我現在在講說你們個人自用免查驗的\n其實我還不好意思講除了從海關進來的更多的是大家喔 跑單幫的啦跑單幫小三通我每天去廈門再進來廈門進來一天可以跑五次跑十次化整為零啦個人攜帶的啦對不對怎麼會大家都看得到夜市全部滿街都是中國的食品啦肉製品啦\n在台灣網路平台販賣的簡體製的很多啦所以我們在講食安五環在這裡食藥署你們開了門然後兩手一攤毫無作為這樣的食安防線誰能夠放心呢所以你說要有配套要查緝你也對我們講說要查緝你也對審計部說要查緝不要讓查緝兩個字成為笑話也不要讓食安防線成為笑話\n保定你前幾天接受媒體採訪部長9月1號你接任以來你說食安的壓力最大你一再的告誡同仁食安事件沒有妥協的空間從今天各項的討論和資料可以看到你們是要屬管理食安進步的空間還很大我們認為你必須要展開結構性的改革不要再以事件處理的方式來面對\n你不要每次都用事件處理去取代制度上的修正\n這是連你們組織內包括法律法規的管制面已經是嚴重的制度的缺口了而署長承諾我們要修法半年前半年後還躺在你們衛福部還躺在食藥署連出你們衛福部都沒有如果這是最重要的事情很緊急的事情為什麼拖半年還沒到行政院還沒到立法院來\n所以這種牛布化是管理的方式嗎大家都這樣清清菜菜給省紀部運營的然後到這裡答詢立委 蓄意為夷署長站在台上撐過10分鐘就交差了\n這樣能夠讓人民感受到政府守護食安的決心和行動力嗎所以台灣的食品安全就是這樣一次又一次信心垮掉了所以我們要重新的建立起這個信心你必須走向制度化專業化而不是一次又一次的只是危機處理應變而不是只是事件處理應變\n保證是不是什麼時候什麼時候可以給我們制度上的改變保證這個我們一個月提出檢討他已經檢討半年了啦一個月內我們會把它再重新再檢討它的漏洞那該提出的修法年底前我們都會提出來\n年底前喔 年底剩下多久 兩個月喔 好 OK食藥署進步的空間還很大 署長 謝謝謝謝委員 我們第一個就把我們的相關的訊息給各位委員其實能夠有看到 那修法的內涵 內容其實都請各位委員多多救教 謝謝好了 我們要休息了啦 抱歉 休息時間 抱歉我還是要提醒部長和署長 剛剛真的是時間不夠\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.111 --> 00:00.212\n來請施部長\n\n00:07.174 --> 00:30.511\n林委員好部長我再接續剛才廖委員的這個質詢就省紀部在今年的非洲豬瘟事件發生以前7月29號就發布了這個總決算的審核報告那這裡面指出這個食藥署大家都知道邊境抱怨的批次從76萬餘批比這個當初109年69萬餘批成長了將近一成\n\n00:36.295 --> 00:42.760\n在這種狀況裡面他們覺得說中國大陸的貨品除了經濟部公告准許輸入和專案核准以外不得輸入的狀況但是坊間非常多的中國大陸產製的麻辣花生螺絲粉等非屬核准輸入產品在國內流通販售的情勢衍生了食安的疑慮這個是審計部的調查報告裡面寫的審核報告裡面寫的\n\n01:05.876 --> 01:29.014\n然後呢你們他再查了一下就說你們這個去年112年還有113年兩年之間他們看了一下地方政府的稽查業者兩萬餘次查獲的違規只有71案其中都是在夜市商行實體通路查獲網路平台只有一案在這種狀況裡面審計部認為說這個\n\n01:35.139 --> 01:53.011\n對國內的衛生安全有很大的疑慮然後講到你們自己剛剛講的108年你們自己開放了自己去開放了這個1000美金以下重量6公斤以下這個免申請這個查驗這個是你們自己開放的在這種狀況裡面他就剛才廖委員質詢也有講到所以這個審計部\n\n02:00.723 --> 02:04.344\n這一年過去113年有70幾萬個人申請我免查驗啦然後最離譜的是第一名的人那一個人一年申請了3002次然後他每天一年365天一共有294天294天天天都申報這個進口免查驗的這一些化整為零的輸入\n\n02:29.668 --> 02:42.834\n然後大家當初都是知道說這同意自用的話免查驗可是天天輸入一年輸入294天一共輸入了3002批次化整為零\n\n02:43.865 --> 03:09.745\n違規的拿去哪裡使用了還自用了欸而你們自己都知道109年你就發現這有問題了可是你們就是沒有辦法改而且不願意改你就說大家都反對就不改了那今年呢我們就看到深五環的第一環邊境主角就在這裡大家認為說這裡破口跟著貨櫃進來違規拿去平台賣有沒有可能\n\n03:10.766 --> 03:33.433\n當然部長你講的更好笑這些都免查驗了你說還在查驗他哪裡查驗跟委員說明這確實是有一些國人自用的需求沒有啦我問你是這些都用免查驗的你剛才還可以回答委員說他們還是有查驗不是查驗啦應該是這樣子講他在邊境他還是郵包還是要驗還是會被抽驗啦\n\n03:34.013 --> 03:38.537\n抽驗嘛所以偶爾抽一下但是我現在再問你喔嚴肅的問你喔申請免查驗的1000美金以下的還有這個6公斤以下的會抽驗嗎海關有抽驗嗎有抽驗嗎你剛才講你剛才回答委員說還是有查驗現在我問你你說會抽驗到底有沒有真的有抽驗\n\n03:59.997 --> 04:06.162\n沒有嘛沒有嘛完全沒有把關長驅直入可是剛才第一名那個其實我們在9月10號我現在告訴你就是說就是沒有我們要講這個個案啦我在講因為你們開放的108年這個門就是你開的\n\n04:21.753 --> 04:34.557\n而開了以後完全連抽菸都沒有長驅直入而且大家化整為零而且以同意自用為名就違規的拿去販賣其實商業販售你開放了但你要有管理的配套\n\n04:39.278 --> 04:58.252\n你開放了那你的管理配套在哪裡你的後市場茶宴有嗎難怪大家都問我大家都問立委夜市大家都看得到更不要講網路平台網路平台所以更不要講阻絕於邊境這都是你們開放的沒錯你們開放的\n\n05:00.934 --> 05:15.280\n在這種狀況審計部的報告我們可以得知到幾個重點第一個你們事實上開放以後流入了台灣的市面然後事實上地方政府跟你們去做的稽查強度則為不足道實體通路兩年查獲71件網路查獲1件第二個我們都看到個人名義自用屬於西北人的嘛\n\n05:29.887 --> 05:59.141\n第三你們的稽查事實上是沒有在講網路販售的這個平台了網路販售除非從中國郵寄但也有從台灣出貨的簡體字的一大堆那網路販售他怎麼到台灣的賣家然後可以直接賣出去他販賣地點可能從雲林寄出來的可能從高雄寄出來的他就是有貨品直接在這個賣家手上\n\n06:00.202 --> 06:24.421\n然後呢你們去查了一件兩年只查到一件然後你們回答這個審計部然後就說我們會加強查稽查然後呢沒了然後就沒了請問這個部長署長我4月就質詢了部長那時候你還沒有上任當部長但在今年的4月我就質詢過署長了\n\n06:26.345 --> 06:53.005\n我們在講說我現在回到網路平台這件事違法輸入的業者和產品的品項是不是在實體通路和網路平台都消失了然後還是說這些業者避避風頭立委質詢了然後政府管了一下子了先下架但事過境天一個月以後又開始賣了賣得下下叫還在賣\n\n06:54.244 --> 07:12.978\n你看昨天的昨天的截圖還在賣還在賣隨便隨便都有請問一下這些有沒有申請輸入查驗他怎麼進來的簡體制全部都簡體制有沒有輸入許可有沒有申請查驗\n\n07:17.218 --> 07:43.719\n連審計單位都要跟你講這有食安的疑慮耶7月29到現在發現有國安的疑慮因為豬瘟沒有豬瘟也有食安的疑慮耶請問一下審計部要求食藥署研議強化網路販售食品的稽查作為在哪裡署長你可以告訴我保證網路平台上現在去上網去看的都有申請輸入查驗的嗎\n\n07:45.687 --> 08:11.846\n這邊跟委員報告一下因為委員4月份提醒之後我們非常認真的去做因為我們目前沒有電子商務法所以我們其實已經提出了修法市民安全衛生管理法法條現在躺在哪裡第三條對啦法條現在躺在哪裡你說要修法從4月講到現在了對我們持續在有些半年了對我們會持續把這個速度再加快現在法在哪裡到行政院了沒\n\n08:12.666 --> 08:38.513\n目前還沒有出衛福部了沒沒有半年了我們繼續加緊速度第一個部分剛才如委員所說的如何對於平台業者販賣業者課予所謂的行政義務的電商平台的義務的這是第一個部分第二個部分是他要強制你不要跟我講修法的內容我知道啦但是我現在告訴你在修法以前人家就是這樣進來的今天國安破口防疫的破口難道這裡不可能嗎\n\n08:41.014 --> 09:03.138\n現在網路上如果講食安平台上販賣的都有申請查驗嗎你不知道你不知道事實上是沒有啦的確是沒有現在我再講中央主管機關是屬於安全的這個主責機關你開放了我再講你108年的開放開放了免申請查驗卻沒有濫用這個制度的把關機制\n\n09:04.858 --> 09:32.472\n你說你要限縮再限縮美金大概要多少要再限縮公斤重量要再限縮這樣就好了嗎你們的配套會是什麼你們的配套會是什麼你們給人家開了一個門然後東西都進來你沒有管理的辦法也沒有人在管理這像話嗎不然你一開門說有需要配套也要有啊配套是什麼\n\n09:33.581 --> 09:52.854\n你現在降低提高了門檻了那還是要有配套啊我們其實特別是針對用抱怨勾擊的方式對異常的我們會積極的去查核這邊謝謝委員的提醒電商平台修法義務草案我現在在講說你們個人自用免查驗的\n\n09:54.778 --> 10:23.917\n其實我還不好意思講除了從海關進來的更多的是大家喔跑單幫的啦跑單幫小三通我每天去廈門再進來廈門進來一天可以跑五次跑十次化整為零啦個人攜帶的啦對不對怎麼會大家都看得到夜市全部滿街都是中國的食品啦肉製品啦\n\n10:25.578 --> 10:54.299\n在台灣網路平台販賣的簡體製的很多啦所以我們在講食安五環在這裡食藥署你們開了門然後兩手一攤毫無作為這樣的食安防線誰能夠放心呢所以你說要有配套要查緝你也對我們講說要查緝你也對審計部說要查緝不要讓查緝兩個字成為笑話也不要讓食安防線成為笑話\n\n10:56.533 --> 11:25.048\n保定你前幾天接受媒體採訪部長9月1號你接任以來你說食安的壓力最大你一再的告誡同仁食安事件沒有妥協的空間從今天各項的討論和資料可以看到你們是要屬管理食安進步的空間還很大我們認為你必須要展開結構性的改革不要再以事件處理的方式來面對\n\n11:26.587 --> 11:30.891\n你不要每次都用事件處理去取代制度上的修正\n\n11:32.034 --> 11:58.157\n這是連你們組織內包括法律法規的管制面已經是嚴重的制度的缺口了而署長承諾我們要修法半年前半年後還躺在你們衛福部還躺在食藥署連出你們衛福部都沒有如果這是最重要的事情很緊急的事情為什麼拖半年還沒到行政院還沒到立法院來\n\n11:59.562 --> 12:13.181\n所以這種牛布化是管理的方式嗎大家都這樣清清菜菜給省紀部運營的然後到這裡答詢立委蓄意為夷署長站在台上撐過10分鐘就交差了\n\n12:14.518 --> 12:36.958\n這樣能夠讓人民感受到政府守護食安的決心和行動力嗎所以台灣的食品安全就是這樣一次又一次信心垮掉了所以我們要重新的建立起這個信心你必須走向制度化專業化而不是一次又一次的只是危機處理應變而不是只是事件處理應變\n\n12:38.717 --> 12:57.737\n保證是不是什麼時候什麼時候可以給我們制度上的改變保證這個我們一個月提出檢討他已經檢討半年了啦一個月內我們會把它再重新再檢討它的漏洞那該提出的修法年底前我們都會提出來\n\n12:58.197 --> 13:25.229\n年底前喔年底剩下多久兩個月喔好OK食藥署進步的空間還很大署長謝謝謝謝委員我們第一個就把我們的相關的訊息給各位委員其實能夠有看到那修法的內涵內容其實都請各位委員多多救教謝謝好了我們要休息了啦抱歉休息時間抱歉我還是要提醒部長和署長剛剛真的是時間不夠\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.111,"end":0.212,"text":"來 請施部長"},{"start":7.174,"end":30.511,"text":"林委員好部長 我再接續剛才廖委員的這個質詢就省紀部在今年的非洲豬瘟事件發生以前7月29號就發布了這個總決算的審核報告那這裡面指出這個食藥署大家都知道邊境抱怨的批次從76萬餘批比這個當初109年69萬餘批成長了將近一成"},{"start":36.295,"end":42.76,"text":"在這種狀況裡面他們覺得說中國大陸的貨品除了經濟部公告准許輸入和專案核准以外不得輸入的狀況但是坊間非常多的中國大陸產製的麻辣花生螺絲粉等非屬核准輸入產品在國內流通販售的情勢衍生了食安的疑慮這個是審計部的調查報告裡面寫的審核報告裡面寫的"},{"start":65.876,"end":89.014,"text":"然後呢你們他再查了一下就說你們這個去年112年還有113年兩年之間他們看了一下地方政府的稽查業者兩萬餘次查獲的違規只有71案其中都是在夜市商行實體通路查獲網路平台只有一案在這種狀況裡面審計部認為說這個"},{"start":95.139,"end":113.011,"text":"對國內的衛生安全有很大的疑慮然後講到你們自己剛剛講的108年你們自己開放了自己去開放了這個1000美金以下重量6公斤以下這個免申請這個查驗這個是你們自己開放的在這種狀況裡面他就剛才廖委員質詢也有講到所以這個審計部"},{"start":120.723,"end":124.344,"text":"這一年過去113年有70幾萬個人申請我免查驗啦然後最離譜的是第一名的人那一個人一年申請了3002次然後他每天一年365天一共有294天294天天天都申報這個進口免查驗的這一些化整為零的輸入"},{"start":149.668,"end":162.834,"text":"然後大家當初都是知道說這同意自用的話免查驗可是天天輸入一年輸入294天一共輸入了3002批次化整為零"},{"start":163.865,"end":189.745,"text":"違規的拿去哪裡使用了還自用了欸而你們自己都知道109年你就發現這有問題了可是你們就是沒有辦法改而且不願意改你就說大家都反對就不改了那今年呢我們就看到深五環的第一環邊境主角就在這裡大家認為說這裡破口跟著貨櫃進來違規拿去平台賣有沒有可能"},{"start":190.766,"end":213.433,"text":"當然部長你講的更好笑 這些都免查驗了 你說還在查驗他哪裡查驗跟委員說明 這確實是有一些國人自用的需求沒有啦 我問你是這些都用免查驗的你剛才還可以回答委員說他們還是有查驗不是查驗啦 應該是這樣子講他在邊境 他還是郵包還是要驗 還是會被抽驗啦"},{"start":214.013,"end":218.537,"text":"抽驗嘛 所以偶爾抽一下但是我現在再問你喔 嚴肅的問你喔申請免查驗的1000美金以下的還有這個6公斤以下的會抽驗嗎 海關有抽驗嗎有抽驗嗎 你剛才講 你剛才回答委員說還是有查驗現在我問你 你說會抽驗 到底有沒有真的有抽驗"},{"start":239.997,"end":246.162,"text":"沒有嘛沒有嘛完全沒有把關長驅直入可是剛才第一名那個其實我們在9月10號我現在告訴你就是說就是沒有我們要講這個個案啦我在講因為你們開放的108年這個門就是你開的"},{"start":261.753,"end":274.557,"text":"而開了以後完全連抽菸都沒有長驅直入而且大家化整為零而且以同意自用為名就違規的拿去販賣其實商業販售你開放了但你要有管理的配套"},{"start":279.278,"end":298.252,"text":"你開放了 那你的管理配套在哪裡 你的後市場茶宴有嗎難怪大家都問我 大家都問立委 夜市大家都看得到更不要講網路平台 網路平台所以更不要講阻絕於邊境 這都是你們開放的 沒錯 你們開放的"},{"start":300.934,"end":315.28,"text":"在這種狀況 審計部的報告我們可以得知到幾個重點第一個 你們事實上開放以後流入了台灣的市面然後事實上地方政府跟你們去做的稽查強度則為不足道實體通路兩年查獲71件網路查獲1件第二個 我們都看到個人名義自用 屬於西北人的嘛"},{"start":329.887,"end":359.141,"text":"第三你們的稽查事實上是沒有在講網路販售的這個平台了網路販售除非從中國郵寄但也有從台灣出貨的簡體字的一大堆那網路販售他怎麼到台灣的賣家然後可以直接賣出去他販賣地點可能從雲林寄出來的可能從高雄寄出來的他就是有貨品直接在這個賣家手上"},{"start":360.202,"end":384.421,"text":"然後呢 你們去查了一件 兩年只查到一件然後你們回答這個審計部然後就說我們會加強查 稽查然後呢 沒了 然後就沒了請問這個部長 署長 我4月就質詢了部長那時候你還沒有上任當部長但在今年的4月我就質詢過署長了"},{"start":386.345,"end":413.005,"text":"我們在講說我現在回到網路平台這件事違法輸入的業者和產品的品項是不是在實體通路和網路平台都消失了然後還是說這些業者避避風頭立委質詢了然後政府管了一下子了先下架但事過境天一個月以後又開始賣了 賣得下下叫 還在賣"},{"start":414.244,"end":432.978,"text":"你看昨天的昨天的截圖還在賣還在賣隨便隨便都有請問一下這些有沒有申請輸入查驗他怎麼進來的簡體制全部都簡體制有沒有輸入許可有沒有申請查驗"},{"start":437.218,"end":463.719,"text":"連審計單位都要跟你講這有食安的疑慮耶7月29到現在發現有國安的疑慮因為豬瘟沒有豬瘟也有食安的疑慮耶請問一下審計部要求食藥署研議強化網路販售食品的稽查作為在哪裡署長你可以告訴我保證網路平台上現在去上網去看的都有申請輸入查驗的嗎"},{"start":465.687,"end":491.846,"text":"這邊跟委員報告一下 因為委員4月份提醒之後我們非常認真的去做因為我們目前沒有電子商務法所以我們其實已經提出了修法 市民安全 衛生 管理法法條現在躺在哪裡第三條 對啦 法條現在躺在哪裡你說要修法從4月講到現在了對 我們持續在有些半年了對 我們會持續把這個速度再加快現在法在哪裡 到行政院了沒"},{"start":492.666,"end":518.513,"text":"目前還沒有 出衛福部了沒沒有 半年了 我們繼續加緊速度第一個部分剛才如委員所說的如何對於平台業者 販賣業者課予所謂的行政義務的 電商平台的義務的這是第一個部分 第二個部分是他要強制你不要跟我講修法的內容 我知道啦但是我現在告訴你 在修法以前人家就是這樣進來的今天國安破口 防疫的破口難道這裡不可能嗎"},{"start":521.014,"end":543.138,"text":"現在網路上如果講食安平台上販賣的都有申請查驗嗎你不知道 你不知道 事實上是沒有啦的確是沒有現在我再講中央主管機關是屬於安全的這個主責機關你開放了 我再講你108年的開放開放了免申請查驗卻沒有濫用這個制度的把關機制"},{"start":544.858,"end":572.472,"text":"你說你要限縮再限縮美金大概要多少要再限縮公斤重量要再限縮這樣就好了嗎你們的配套會是什麼你們的配套會是什麼你們給人家開了一個門然後東西都進來你沒有管理的辦法也沒有人在管理這像話嗎不然你一開門說有需要配套也要有啊配套是什麼"},{"start":573.581,"end":592.854,"text":"你現在降低提高了門檻了那還是要有配套啊我們其實特別是針對用抱怨勾擊的方式對異常的我們會積極的去查核這邊謝謝委員的提醒電商平台修法義務草案我現在在講說你們個人自用免查驗的"},{"start":594.778,"end":623.917,"text":"其實我還不好意思講除了從海關進來的更多的是大家喔 跑單幫的啦跑單幫小三通我每天去廈門再進來廈門進來一天可以跑五次跑十次化整為零啦個人攜帶的啦對不對怎麼會大家都看得到夜市全部滿街都是中國的食品啦肉製品啦"},{"start":625.578,"end":654.299,"text":"在台灣網路平台販賣的簡體製的很多啦所以我們在講食安五環在這裡食藥署你們開了門然後兩手一攤毫無作為這樣的食安防線誰能夠放心呢所以你說要有配套要查緝你也對我們講說要查緝你也對審計部說要查緝不要讓查緝兩個字成為笑話也不要讓食安防線成為笑話"},{"start":656.533,"end":685.048,"text":"保定你前幾天接受媒體採訪部長9月1號你接任以來你說食安的壓力最大你一再的告誡同仁食安事件沒有妥協的空間從今天各項的討論和資料可以看到你們是要屬管理食安進步的空間還很大我們認為你必須要展開結構性的改革不要再以事件處理的方式來面對"},{"start":686.587,"end":690.891,"text":"你不要每次都用事件處理去取代制度上的修正"},{"start":692.034,"end":718.157,"text":"這是連你們組織內包括法律法規的管制面已經是嚴重的制度的缺口了而署長承諾我們要修法半年前半年後還躺在你們衛福部還躺在食藥署連出你們衛福部都沒有如果這是最重要的事情很緊急的事情為什麼拖半年還沒到行政院還沒到立法院來"},{"start":719.562,"end":733.181,"text":"所以這種牛布化是管理的方式嗎大家都這樣清清菜菜給省紀部運營的然後到這裡答詢立委 蓄意為夷署長站在台上撐過10分鐘就交差了"},{"start":734.518,"end":756.958,"text":"這樣能夠讓人民感受到政府守護食安的決心和行動力嗎所以台灣的食品安全就是這樣一次又一次信心垮掉了所以我們要重新的建立起這個信心你必須走向制度化專業化而不是一次又一次的只是危機處理應變而不是只是事件處理應變"},{"start":758.717,"end":777.737,"text":"保證是不是什麼時候什麼時候可以給我們制度上的改變保證這個我們一個月提出檢討他已經檢討半年了啦一個月內我們會把它再重新再檢討它的漏洞那該提出的修法年底前我們都會提出來"},{"start":778.197,"end":805.229,"text":"年底前喔 年底剩下多久 兩個月喔 好 OK食藥署進步的空間還很大 署長 謝謝謝謝委員 我們第一個就把我們的相關的訊息給各位委員其實能夠有看到 那修法的內涵 內容其實都請各位委員多多救教 謝謝好了 我們要休息了啦 抱歉 休息時間 抱歉我還是要提醒部長和署長 剛剛真的是時間不夠"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":824,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（10時52分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：來，請石部長。"],["石部長崇良：林委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，我再接續剛才廖委員的質詢，審計部在今年非洲豬瘟事件發生以前，7月29號就發布了總決算的審核報告，這裡面指出食藥署，大家都知道，邊境報驗的批次從七十六萬餘批，比當初109年的六十九萬餘批成長了將近一成，在這種狀況下，他們覺得中國大陸的貨品，除了經濟部公告准許輸入和專案核准的以外，不得輸入。但坊間有非常多中國大陸產製的麻辣花生、螺螄粉等非屬核准輸入的產品在國內流通販售的情事，衍生食安的疑慮，這是審計部的審核報告裡面寫的。","然後審計部再查了一下，112年和113年兩年之間，地方政府稽查業者兩萬餘次，查獲的違規只有71案，其中都是在夜市商行實體通路查獲，網路平臺只有1案，在這種狀況下，審計部認為國內的食品衛生安全有很大的疑慮。審核報告中也講到你們自己剛剛講的，108年你們自己去開放了1,000美金以下、重量6公斤以下免申請查驗，這是你們自己開放的。","在這種狀況下，剛才廖委員質詢也有講到，審計部發現113年有七十幾萬個人申請免查驗，然後最離譜的是第一名的人，那一個人一年申請了3,002次，一年365天他一共有294天，294天天天都申報進口免查驗，化整為零的輸入。大家當初都只知道同意自用的話免查驗，可是天天輸入，一年輸入294天，一共輸入了3,002批次，化整為零，違規的拿去哪裡使用了？還自用咧！","你們自己都知道，109年你就發現這個有問題，可是你們就是沒有辦法改，而且也不願意改，你說大家都反對就不改了。今天我們就看到，食安五環的第一環邊境阻絕就在這裡，大家都認為這裡破口，跟著貨櫃進來，違規拿去平臺賣，有沒有可能？剛才部長你講的更好笑，這些都免查驗的，你說還在查驗，它哪裡查驗？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，這個確實是有一些國人自用的需求，我們是給他有一定的……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦，問題是這些都用免查驗的，你剛才還可以回答委員說，他們還是有查驗……"],["石部長崇良：沒有、沒有，不是查驗啦，應該是這樣子講，在邊境郵包還是要驗，還是會被抽驗啦。"],["林委員淑芬：抽驗嘛！所以那是偶爾抽一下……"],["石部長崇良：對，郵包還是會抽驗。"],["林委員淑芬：但是，我現在再嚴肅的問你喔，申請免查驗的1,000美金以下還有6公斤以下的會抽驗嗎？","海關，有抽驗嗎？"],["石部長崇良：第一個就是跟委員說明……"],["林委員淑芬：有抽驗嗎？你剛才回答委員說還是有查驗，現在我問你，你說會抽驗，到底有沒有真的有抽驗？"],["蘇副署長淑貞：沒有。"],["林委員淑芬：沒有嘛，沒有嘛！完全沒有把關，長驅直入……"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，食品衛生安全的部分沒有抽驗。可是剛才第一名那個，其實我們在9月10號跟9月18號都予以裁罰了……"],["林委員淑芬：不要再講第一名，我現在告訴你就是沒有。","我沒有要講這個個案啦！我是在講因為你們開放的，108年這個門就是你開的，而開了以後完全連抽驗都沒有，長驅直入，而且大家化整為零，以同意自用為名就違規的拿去販賣，其實是商業販售。你開放了，但要有管理的配套，你開放了，但你的管理配套在哪裡？你的後市場查驗有嗎？難怪大家都問我，大家都問立委，欸，夜市大家都看得到，更不要講網路平臺，所以更不要講阻絕於邊境，這都是你們開放的。部長，你們開放的。","這種狀況從審計部的報告我們可以得知幾個重點：第一個，你們開放以後事實上流入了臺灣的市面，然後事實上地方政府跟你們去做的稽查強度微不足道，實體通路兩年查獲71件，網路查獲1件。第二個，我們都看到，個人名義自用事實是騙人的嘛。第三，你們的稽查事實上是沒有。","再講網路販售的平臺好了，網路販售除非從中國郵寄，但是也有從臺灣出貨簡體字的一大堆，網路販售怎麼到臺灣的賣家，然後可以直接賣出去？販賣地點可能從雲林寄出來的、可能從高雄寄出來的，那就是有貨品直接在這個賣家手上。然後你們去查了1件，兩年只查到1件，你們就回答審計部說會加強稽查，然後呢？沒了！然後就沒了。","請問部長、署長，我4月就質詢了，部長，那時候你還沒有上任當部長，但在今年的4月我就質詢過署長了。","我現在回到網路平臺這件事，違法輸入的業者和產品的品項是不是在實體通路和網路平臺都消失了？還是說這些業者避避風頭，立委質詢了，然後政府管了一下子，先下架，但事過境遷，一個月以後又開始賣了，賣得嚇嚇叫，還在賣！你看昨天的截圖，還在賣！還在賣！隨便都有。請問一下，這些有沒有申請輸入查驗？它怎麼進來的？全部都簡體字耶！有沒有輸入許可？有沒有申請查驗？連審計單位都跟你講這有食安的疑慮，7月29日到現在發現有國安的疑慮，因為豬瘟，即便沒有豬瘟，也有食安的疑慮。請問一下，審計部要求食藥署研議強化網路販售食品的稽查作為在哪裡？署長，你可以告訴我保證網路平臺上，現在上網去看的都有申請輸入、查驗了嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：跟委員報告一下，委員4月份提醒之後，我們非常認真去做，因為目前沒有電子商務法，所以我們其實已經提出修法，為食品安全衛生管理法……"],["林委員淑芬：修法，法條現在躺在哪裡？"],["姜署長至剛：第三條，其實這部分……"],["林委員淑芬：對，法條現在躺在哪裡？"],["姜署長至剛：我們其實在研議……"],["林委員淑芬：你說要修法，從4月講到現在了。"],["姜署長至剛：我們持續在有些……"],["林委員淑芬：半年了。"],["姜署長至剛：對，我們會持續把速度再加快，包含最重要的是……"],["林委員淑芬：現在法在哪裡？到行政院了沒？"],["姜署長至剛：目前還沒有。"],["林委員淑芬：出衛福部了沒？"],["姜署長至剛：目前還沒有。"],["林委員淑芬：沒有，半年了，半年了。"],["姜署長至剛：我們繼續加快速度。第一個部分，如剛才委員所說的，就是如何對於平臺業者、販賣業者課予行政義務、電商平臺的義務，這是第一個部分。第二個部分是強制它要下架……"],["林委員淑芬：你不要跟我講修法的內容，我知道，但是我現在告訴你，在修法以前人家就是這樣進來的，今天國安破口、防疫的破口，難道這裡不無可能嗎？如果講食安，現在網路平臺上販賣的都有申請查驗嗎？你不知道？事實上是沒有啦。"],["姜署長至剛：的確是沒有。"],["林委員淑芬：現在我這樣講，中央主管機關是食品安全的主責機關，你開放了……我在講你108年開放，開放了免申請查驗，對於濫用這個制度卻沒有把關機制。你說你要限縮、再限縮，美金多少要再限縮，重量要再限縮，這樣就好了嗎？你們的配套會是什麼？部長，你們的配套會是什麼？你們給人家開了一個門，然後東西都進來，你們卻沒有管理的辦法，也沒有人在管理，這像話嗎？沒事開了那個門，說有需要，好，配套也要有呀，配套是什麼？"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員……"],["林委員淑芬：你現在提高門檻了，還是要有配套。"],["姜署長至剛：我們其實特別是針對用報驗勾稽的方式，對異常的部分，我們會積極地去查核，謝謝委員的提醒。有關電商平臺的修法草案，我們持續在溝通當中。"],["林委員淑芬：我現在在講你們個人自用免查驗的，其實我還不好意思講，除了從海關進來的，更多的是跑單幫的，跑單幫透過小三通每天去廈門再進來、出去再進來，一天可以跑5次、跑10次，化整為零，個人攜帶的，對不對？怎麼會大家都看得到，夜市滿街都是中國的食品、肉製品！在臺灣網路平臺販賣的、簡體字的很多。所以我們在講食安五環，食藥署開了個門，然後兩手一攤，毫無作為，這樣的食安防線，誰能夠放心呢？所以你說要有配套、要查緝，你也對我們講說要查緝，也對審計部說要查緝，不要讓「查緝」兩個字成為笑話，也不要讓食安防線成為笑話。","部長，你前幾天接受媒體採訪，9月1日你接任以來，你說食安的壓力最大，你一再地告誡同仁，食安事件沒有妥協的空間，但是從今天各項討論和資料可以看到，你們食藥署管理食安進步的空間還很大。我們認為你必須要展開結構性的改革，不要再以事件處理的方式來面對，你不要每次都用事件處理去取代制度上的修正，連你們組織內，包括法律、法規的管制面已經是嚴重的制度缺口了。半年前署長承諾我們要修法，半年後法案還躺在你們衛福部、還躺在食藥署，連出你們衛福部都沒有，如果這是最重要的事情、很緊急的事情，為什麼拖半年還沒到行政院、還沒到立法院來？所以這種牛步化是管理的方式嗎？每天都隨便回應審計部，然後到這裡回復立委的答詢虛與委蛇，署長站在臺上撐過10分鐘就交差了，這樣能夠讓人民感受到政府守護食安的決心和行動力嗎？臺灣的食品安全就是這樣一次又一次讓信心垮掉了，所以我們要重新建立起信心，必須走向制度化、專業化，而不是一次又一次地只是危機處理應變，不是只是事件處理應變，部長，不是嗎？部長什麼時候可以給我們制度上的改變？"],["石部長崇良：我們一個月提出檢討，把它檢討出來，然後……"],["林委員淑芬：他已經檢討半年了啦！"],["石部長崇良：一個月內我們會重新再檢討它的漏洞，該提出的修法，年底前我們都會提出來。"],["林委員淑芬：年底前，距離年底剩下多久？兩個月，好，OK。食藥署進步的空間還很大，署長。謝謝。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員。我們第一個就把相關的訊息給各位委員即時能看到，修法的內涵、內容也請各位委員多多指教，謝謝。"],["主席：抱歉，我們要休息10分鐘了。我還是要提醒部長和署長，剛剛真的是時間不夠，林委員的資料跟我的資料都很清楚，那個是針對臺灣的，49元免運是針對臺灣的，實在沒時間講，不然剛剛那個處長他怎麼會……你怎麼不覺得你們主管講的那些壓力是普遍性的壓力，不是……好，謝謝。休息10分鐘。","休息（11時6分）","繼續開會（11時18分）"],["主席：好，休息時間到，請各位官員回座，我們要繼續進行詢答。","接下來請黃秀芳委員、黃召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":486,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","盧縣一","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","林淑芬","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","楊曜","葉元之","陳瑩","蘇清泉","范雲"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部、財政部、交通部、經濟部、數位發展部、海洋委員會海巡署\n就「如何精進海外小型包裹夾帶肉品之查緝與防堵，持續強化阻絕疫情於國門，同時優化國內後\n續對於非洲豬瘟防疫」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審查(一)行政院函請審議「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)\n委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員\n魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條\n條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)\n委員李昆澤等27 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十) 委員黃秀芳等21 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三\n十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛\n生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十三) 委員劉建國等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員\n沈發惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文\n修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)\n委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄\n等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 五) 委員林淑芬等21 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸\n等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生\n法部分條文修正草案」案、( 九) 委員蔡易餘等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1149002_00002"}}}