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506.681, \"end\": 506.941, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 506.941, \"end\": 507.161, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 507.161, \"end\": 507.441, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 507.441, \"end\": 507.461, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}]}, {\"start\": 508.402, \"end\": 537.702, \"text\": \"那麼甚至於是輿論戰那麼剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到的就是說我們必須要有一個明確的宣示雖然他沒有這種牆壁管轄的權利但是回到中國境內的時候包括這一次沈伯陽委員他的這個發布是透過重慶的公安部門那麼言下之意是落地之後就會有危險這個部分我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案但是相關的我們國家的這種包括國安局或者是相關的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 508.402, \"end\": 508.662, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 508.662, \"end\": 508.842, \"score\": 0.634}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 508.842, \"end\": 509.183, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 509.183, \"end\": 509.343, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 509.343, \"end\": 510.283, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"輿\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", 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00:00:29,870\n好呃這個剛剛喔這個沈博洋沈蔚園有特別提到APEC那今天其實我們主要的是針對APEC之外也多加了一個當然就是中國特別牆壁管轄這把手伸到這個台灣的政治人物或名人的部分喔但是\n\n3\n00:00:30,891 --> 00:00:53,728\n我想先請教部長的是我們知道在川習會目前正在登場當中不過在川習會之前川普先講了TaiwanisTaiwan說實話還好這個中國的長臂管轄是沒有到這個美國去啦不然他首先第一個他想要制裁或者是發出這個通緝令的應該是川普了吧因為他說TaiwanisTaiwan你怎麼看川普特別在川習會之前講了這一句話有些人認為他是對於整個我們現在亞太的區域安全\n\n4\n00:01:00,353 --> 00:01:17,349\n做了一條新的界線那你怎麼來解讀我們對於所謂川習會會涉及台灣的議題當然要密切關心但不必過度擔心因為各界也都很關心因為是不是中國會利用川習會出招\n\n5\n00:01:19,511 --> 00:01:43,032\n而且說有很多的呼籲那我們跟美國政府也密切的溝通那萬一有什麼狀況我們也會一起大家有協調怎麼來因應那我想我們就用川普的話來自己呈現就是台灣是台灣你這個如果習近平要談什麼那是你的事情可是我覺得美國的政策是很明確而且一致\n\n6\n00:01:44,012 --> 00:01:54,556\n這也不太跟我們說明所以我們是對台美關係有信心那最重要的是其實美中跟美台關係可以是分開的那中國過去長期都打台灣牌來威脅利誘但是我想\n\n7\n00:02:04,215 --> 00:02:24,432\n我們去想一種情境如果今天習近平自己提了台灣議題結果川普的回應不如他期待那他是不是很沒面子所以我想習近平也有他的判斷吧當然外界關心是因為每當這種高峰會的時候各界都會很關心不過我們對於台灣跟美國的關係我們是相當穩定的\n\n8\n00:02:29,716 --> 00:02:54,197\n那是可以共同來應處任何可能來自於中國方面他的這個一些可能的訴求或壓力好我們知道在這個114年的時候包含追加預算回來之後我們的預算呢基本上在編列的部分明年會比今年要來得多那麼當然主要的還是因為我們的國際宣傳費用\n\n9\n00:02:55,458 --> 00:03:15,334\n在這個部分在這個年度也就是2025年我們被刪除了但是2026年當然我們現在還是希望這個國際宣傳非常的重要因為真的就像川普講的台灣是台灣台灣要被看見喔但是我想要延伸閱讀一下因為剛剛我接在這個鋪馬委員的後面我也想問的就是APEC2026會在中國舉辦\n\n10\n00:03:18,456 --> 00:03:20,797\n就像現在中國的長臂管轄會不斷的無限延伸他今天把台灣視為他的一部分他可以怎麼樣比如說明年我們的所謂領袖代表他可不可以先發制人的把他列為所謂的懲戒名單\n\n11\n00:03:35,524 --> 00:04:04,644\n又或者是其他可能出席的官員代表也列為懲戒名單這個不是沒有喔包括我想剛剛有提到的我們的昭偉王定宇主席然後我們的沈伯洋委員甚至於過去像游錫堃院長蘇貞昌院長顧立雄當時是國安會現在是我們國防部長也就是說他可以無限延伸那麼在這個部分接下來我們再出席國際會議的時候雖然我們講到的這個部分就是\n\n12\n00:04:05,764 --> 00:04:33,133\n我們不認同這個部分但是他會不會用這個方式讓台灣就此被消失或者是我們在出席的部分受到一些影響那麼請部長回答之外也請這個陸委會省副主委我先跟委員報告就是我們也是有這個當中國在去年啊MIDUAPEC大會上申請要主辦明年的APEC的年會的時候我們就有要求\n\n13\n00:04:34,574 --> 00:04:48,189\n中國必須公開承諾就是要確保我們所有出席人員的安全而且平等參與的權利所以當時他們的資深官員的代表盧梅亞最後還發函給所有的會員\n\n14\n00:04:49,631 --> 00:05:16,434\n那這個事後包括當然美國啦有好的國家大家一起的支持認為我們在去年建立了一個很好的基礎因為已經有將近十幾年來中國每當APEC都企圖矮化台灣甚至兩岸之間的交涉都透過可能兩會而不是透過APEC我們的這種外交單位在進行那好今年在韓國進行的時候我們也非常密切注意是不是被矮化比如說在我們領袖代表的接機的時候一度\n\n15\n00:05:17,174 --> 00:05:19,536\n有傳出不是由部長這個層級來接我們經過溝通韓國也最後確認是由他們的資深官員會議的主席親自到機場接機我們林信義領袖的代表\n\n16\n00:05:38,012 --> 00:05:51,144\n所以我是覺得我們密切的注意那也希望今年在韓國這個慶周的經驗是奠定在APEC正常的一個規範之下那明年到了中國他會不會給我們什麼樣的矮化或什麼出什麼小動作我們都必須做好因應的準備\n\n17\n00:05:58,450 --> 00:06:13,762\n好那我有請神父主委其實齁我們跟中國的部分很多的國際會議尤其是以亞洲為主題的時候在中國舉行的機會非常多包括像什麼杭州的亞運啊等等好現在中國出招了不知道陸委會有沒有思考到這一個部分那就是\n\n18\n00:06:14,182 --> 00:06:29,628\n他透過懲戒名單或者是透過他們想要立案追查誰之後這個過去我們談的是長臂管轄比如說在中國境外包括其他非中國的地區但是明年的APEC在中國舉行接下來\n\n19\n00:06:30,188 --> 00:06:37,932\n中國也會舉行許多的國際會議或者是活動那麼這一招他們會不會就此變成是讓台灣出席國際活動或者是國際研討會等等的方式讓他沒有機會就是台灣沒有機會被曝光或者是被亮相甚至於在那一年就缺席這個部分陸委會有沒有思考到那麼有沒有想到如何來做因應\n\n20\n00:06:55,282 --> 00:07:18,893\n是非常謝謝委員的提醒那我想剛剛已經有特別提到了其實中國大陸來講的話他還是會希望能夠正常的來跟台灣做一些交流當然也有更多他們想要不正常的一些方式來統戰台灣那我們也會不斷的去提醒他們如果用這樣子的這種無理的不文明的方式來打壓我們來參與一些這個國際活動的話那麼兩岸的這個交流也一定會受到不健康的這樣的氣氛所影響而沒辦法進行所以對於陸委會來講我們是料敵從嚴\n\n21\n00:07:22,935 --> 00:07:40,474\n所以剛剛部長也特別提到了明年可能在中國大陸要辦APEC更甚至於有各式各樣的一些體育賽會都會在中國大陸辦那我們會不斷的來進行風險的提醒然後另外也會讓中國知道說他們在進行這樣子的一些破壞之後對於這一些在中國舉辦的活動來講都不會是一個好的包裝\n\n22\n00:07:41,135 --> 00:07:51,380\n所以會擔心嗎那麼會認為說像比如說我先舉例115年在外交的部分那麼當然這個部分就是南海會議啊東協及周邊組織會議太平洋島國國際論壇那個農牧類的國際組織相關會議等等然後紡洗錢類的這個討論會然後亞洲開發銀行跟中美洲國際的年會也都會在言下之意就是\n\n23\n00:08:04,907 --> 00:08:27,461\n琳瑯滿目不生美鼠各種的國際上面的交流會議那麼他現在只要鎖定會出席的人因為這一次我們看到沈伯陽委員選擇在APEC之前做這樣的發布那麼你們認為這個部分是不是就是有計劃性的鎖定未來在我們可能出席的會議當中製造所謂的心理戰\n\n24\n00:08:28,402 --> 00:08:57,702\n那麼甚至於是輿論戰那麼剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到的就是說我們必須要有一個明確的宣示雖然他沒有這種牆壁管轄的權利但是回到中國境內的時候包括這一次沈伯陽委員他的這個發布是透過重慶的公安部門那麼言下之意是落地之後就會有危險這個部分我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案但是相關的我們國家的這種包括國安局或者是相關的\n\n25\n00:08:59,703 --> 00:09:25,173\n會議當中是不是要把這個東西成為未來在明年115年度當中我們出席國際會議或者是國際交流在中國的時候一個重點的項目好非常謝謝委員的提醒那首先就是剛剛您有提到說這次沈委員他被檢舉的是在重慶這其實就是一個矮話因為他用地方的這個公安的系統來去去懲治我們的這個國會議員這個某種程度來講已經是有精心的包裝了\n\n26\n00:09:25,973 --> 00:09:40,621\n那再來第二個的話就是我們也會去建議或者說我們也會去設法突破這樣的情況舉個例子來講比如說非常有意義的一些國際交流我們可以主動來舉辦像這兩天我們看到說這個關於海底電纜的一些議題然後又組成了這個福爾摩沙的這個論壇在台灣來做舉辦\n\n27\n00:09:42,882 --> 00:09:58,891\n所以我們不會去跟這個中國用這樣子的這種方式去跟他做零和的這個拼鬥跟這個競爭但是我們也會用更加的其他的這樣子的這個方法來去尋求我們在國際上面能夠盡量的被國際社會給看見好所以呢最後剛好剩下十幾\n\n28\n00:09:59,491 --> 00:10:18,313\n十幾秒的時間我想要提醒的就是其實對於中國現在當然就是昨天我也特別詢問了國安局長蔡明彥蔡局長他特別提到這是法律戰認知戰跟心理戰的一個部分那麼對於這個部分因為接下來還有一些其他出席的他可能就不是政治人物不是民意代表\n\n29\n00:10:18,874 --> 00:10:31,666\n他可能就是一般出席會議的相關的人士那麼在這裡如何確保他們的安全之外如何在輿論戰跟心理戰之內我們也要做一個回防的動作這個部分我想也是接下來陸委會必須要有所準備的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n469\t11258\t謝謝主席主席先有請林佳龍林部長來 部長好我們先讓陸委會休息一下還好今天陸委會來的是省副主委是不然的話我可能就要先寫公私分明\n13931\t29870\t好 呃 這個剛剛喔 這個沈博洋 沈蔚園有特別提到APEC那今天其實我們主要的是針對APEC之外也多加了一個當然就是中國特別牆壁管轄這把手伸到這個台灣的政治人物或名人的部分喔 但是\n30891\t53728\t我想先請教部長的是我們知道在川習會目前正在登場當中不過在川習會之前川普先講了Taiwan is Taiwan說實話還好這個中國的長臂管轄是沒有到這個美國去啦不然他首先第一個他想要制裁或者是發出這個通緝令的應該是川普了吧因為他說Taiwan is Taiwan你怎麼看川普特別在川習會之前講了這一句話有些人認為他是對於整個我們現在亞太的區域安全\n60353\t77349\t做了一條新的界線那你怎麼來解讀我們對於所謂川習會會涉及台灣的議題當然要密切關心但不必過度擔心因為各界也都很關心因為是不是中國會利用川習會出招\n79511\t103032\t而且說有很多的呼籲那我們跟美國政府也密切的溝通那萬一有什麼狀況我們也會一起大家有協調怎麼來因應那我想我們就用川普的話來自己呈現就是台灣是台灣你這個如果習近平要談什麼那是你的事情可是我覺得美國的政策是很明確而且一致\n104012\t114556\t這也不太跟我們說明所以我們是對台美關係有信心那最重要的是其實美中跟美台關係可以是分開的那中國過去長期都打台灣牌來威脅利誘但是我想\n124215\t144432\t我們去想一種情境如果今天習近平自己提了台灣議題結果川普的回應不如他期待那他是不是很沒面子所以我想習近平也有他的判斷吧當然外界關心是因為每當這種高峰會的時候各界都會很關心不過我們對於台灣跟美國的關係我們是相當穩定的\n149716\t174197\t那是可以共同來應處任何可能來自於中國方面他的這個一些可能的訴求或壓力好 我們知道在這個114年的時候包含追加預算回來之後我們的預算呢基本上在編列的部分明年會比今年要來得多那麼當然主要的還是因為我們的國際宣傳費用\n175458\t195334\t在這個部分在這個年度也就是2025年我們被刪除了但是2026年當然我們現在還是希望這個國際宣傳非常的重要因為真的就像川普講的台灣是台灣台灣要被看見喔但是我想要延伸閱讀一下因為剛剛我接在這個鋪馬委員的後面我也想問的就是APEC2026會在中國舉辦\n198456\t200797\t就像現在中國的長臂管轄會不斷的無限延伸他今天把台灣視為他的一部分他可以怎麼樣比如說明年我們的所謂領袖代表他可不可以先發制人的把他列為所謂的懲戒名單\n215524\t244644\t又或者是其他可能出席的官員代表也列為懲戒名單這個不是沒有喔包括我想剛剛有提到的我們的昭偉王定宇主席然後我們的沈伯洋委員甚至於過去像游錫堃院長蘇貞昌院長顧立雄當時是國安會現在是我們國防部長也就是說他可以無限延伸那麼在這個部分接下來我們再出席國際會議的時候雖然我們講到的這個部分就是\n245764\t273133\t我們不認同這個部分但是他會不會用這個方式讓台灣就此被消失或者是我們在出席的部分受到一些影響那麼請部長回答之外也請這個陸委會省副主委我先跟委員報告就是我們也是有這個當中國在去年啊MIDU APEC大會上申請要主辦明年的APEC的年會的時候我們就有要求\n274574\t288189\t中國必須公開承諾就是要確保我們所有出席人員的安全而且平等參與的權利所以當時他們的資深官員的代表盧梅亞最後還發函給所有的會員\n289631\t316434\t那這個事後包括當然美國啦有好的國家大家一起的支持認為我們在去年建立了一個很好的基礎因為已經有將近十幾年來中國每當APEC都企圖矮化台灣甚至兩岸之間的交涉都透過可能兩會而不是透過APEC我們的這種外交單位在進行那好今年在韓國進行的時候我們也非常密切注意是不是被矮化比如說在我們領袖代表的接機的時候一度\n317174\t319536\t有傳出不是由部長這個層級來接我們經過溝通韓國也最後確認是由他們的資深官員會議的主席親自到機場接機我們林信義領袖的代表\n338012\t351144\t所以我是覺得我們密切的注意那也希望今年在韓國這個慶周的經驗是奠定在APEC正常的一個規範之下那明年到了中國他會不會給我們什麼樣的矮化或什麼出什麼小動作我們都必須做好因應的準備\n358450\t373762\t好 那我有請神父主委其實齁 我們跟中國的部分很多的國際會議尤其是以亞洲為主題的時候在中國舉行的機會非常多包括像什麼杭州的亞運啊等等好 現在中國出招了不知道陸委會有沒有思考到這一個部分那就是\n374182\t389628\t他透過懲戒名單或者是透過他們想要立案追查誰之後這個過去我們談的是長臂管轄比如說在中國境外包括其他非中國的地區但是明年的APEC在中國舉行接下來\n390188\t397932\t中國也會舉行許多的國際會議或者是活動那麼這一招他們會不會就此變成是讓台灣出席國際活動或者是國際研討會等等的方式讓他沒有機會就是台灣沒有機會被曝光或者是被亮相甚至於在那一年就缺席這個部分陸委會有沒有思考到那麼有沒有想到如何來做因應\n415282\t438893\t是非常謝謝委員的提醒那我想剛剛已經有特別提到了其實中國大陸來講的話他還是會希望能夠正常的來跟台灣做一些交流當然也有更多他們想要不正常的一些方式來統戰台灣那我們也會不斷的去提醒他們如果用這樣子的這種無理的不文明的方式來打壓我們來參與一些這個國際活動的話那麼兩岸的這個交流也一定會受到不健康的這樣的氣氛所影響而沒辦法進行所以對於陸委會來講我們是料敵從嚴\n442935\t460474\t所以剛剛部長也特別提到了明年可能在中國大陸要辦APEC更甚至於有各式各樣的一些體育賽會都會在中國大陸辦那我們會不斷的來進行風險的提醒然後另外也會讓中國知道說他們在進行這樣子的一些破壞之後對於這一些在中國舉辦的活動來講都不會是一個好的包裝\n461135\t471380\t所以會擔心嗎那麼會認為說像比如說我先舉例115年在外交的部分那麼當然這個部分就是南海會議啊東協及周邊組織會議太平洋島國國際論壇那個農牧類的國際組織相關會議等等然後紡洗錢類的這個討論會然後亞洲開發銀行跟中美洲國際的年會也都會在言下之意就是\n484907\t507461\t琳瑯滿目不生美鼠各種的國際上面的交流會議那麼他現在只要鎖定會出席的人因為這一次我們看到沈伯陽委員選擇在APEC之前做這樣的發布那麼你們認為這個部分是不是就是有計劃性的鎖定未來在我們可能出席的會議當中製造所謂的心理戰\n508402\t537702\t那麼甚至於是輿論戰那麼剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到的就是說我們必須要有一個明確的宣示雖然他沒有這種牆壁管轄的權利但是回到中國境內的時候包括這一次沈伯陽委員他的這個發布是透過重慶的公安部門那麼言下之意是落地之後就會有危險這個部分我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案但是相關的我們國家的這種包括國安局或者是相關的\n539703\t565173\t會議當中是不是要把這個東西成為未來在明年115年度當中我們出席國際會議或者是國際交流在中國的時候一個重點的項目好 非常謝謝委員的提醒那首先就是剛剛您有提到說這次沈委員他被檢舉的是在重慶這其實就是一個矮話因為他用地方的這個公安的系統來去去懲治我們的這個國會議員這個某種程度來講已經是有精心的包裝了\n565973\t580621\t那再來第二個的話就是我們也會去建議或者說我們也會去設法突破這樣的情況舉個例子來講比如說非常有意義的一些國際交流我們可以主動來舉辦像這兩天我們看到說這個關於海底電纜的一些議題然後又組成了這個福爾摩沙的這個論壇在台灣來做舉辦\n582882\t598891\t所以我們不會去跟這個中國用這樣子的這種方式去跟他做零和的這個拼鬥跟這個競爭但是我們也會用更加的其他的這樣子的這個方法來去尋求我們在國際上面能夠盡量的被國際社會給看見好所以呢最後剛好剩下十幾\n599491\t618313\t十幾秒的時間我想要提醒的就是其實對於中國現在當然就是昨天我也特別詢問了國安局長蔡明彥蔡局長他特別提到這是法律戰認知戰跟心理戰的一個部分那麼對於這個部分因為接下來還有一些其他出席的他可能就不是政治人物不是民意代表\n618874\t631666\t他可能就是一般出席會議的相關的人士那麼在這裡如何確保他們的安全之外如何在輿論戰跟心理戰之內我們也要做一個回防的動作這個部分我想也是接下來陸委會必須要有所準備的\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席先有請林佳龍林部長來 部長好我們先讓陸委會休息一下還好今天陸委會來的是省副主委是不然的話我可能就要先寫公私分明\n好 呃 這個剛剛喔 這個沈博洋 沈蔚園有特別提到APEC那今天其實我們主要的是針對APEC之外也多加了一個當然就是中國特別牆壁管轄這把手伸到這個台灣的政治人物或名人的部分喔 但是\n我想先請教部長的是我們知道在川習會目前正在登場當中不過在川習會之前川普先講了Taiwan is Taiwan說實話還好這個中國的長臂管轄是沒有到這個美國去啦不然他首先第一個他想要制裁或者是發出這個通緝令的應該是川普了吧因為他說Taiwan is Taiwan你怎麼看川普特別在川習會之前講了這一句話有些人認為他是對於整個我們現在亞太的區域安全\n做了一條新的界線那你怎麼來解讀我們對於所謂川習會會涉及台灣的議題當然要密切關心但不必過度擔心因為各界也都很關心因為是不是中國會利用川習會出招\n而且說有很多的呼籲那我們跟美國政府也密切的溝通那萬一有什麼狀況我們也會一起大家有協調怎麼來因應那我想我們就用川普的話來自己呈現就是台灣是台灣你這個如果習近平要談什麼那是你的事情可是我覺得美國的政策是很明確而且一致\n這也不太跟我們說明所以我們是對台美關係有信心那最重要的是其實美中跟美台關係可以是分開的那中國過去長期都打台灣牌來威脅利誘但是我想\n我們去想一種情境如果今天習近平自己提了台灣議題結果川普的回應不如他期待那他是不是很沒面子所以我想習近平也有他的判斷吧當然外界關心是因為每當這種高峰會的時候各界都會很關心不過我們對於台灣跟美國的關係我們是相當穩定的\n那是可以共同來應處任何可能來自於中國方面他的這個一些可能的訴求或壓力好 我們知道在這個114年的時候包含追加預算回來之後我們的預算呢基本上在編列的部分明年會比今年要來得多那麼當然主要的還是因為我們的國際宣傳費用\n在這個部分在這個年度也就是2025年我們被刪除了但是2026年當然我們現在還是希望這個國際宣傳非常的重要因為真的就像川普講的台灣是台灣台灣要被看見喔但是我想要延伸閱讀一下因為剛剛我接在這個鋪馬委員的後面我也想問的就是APEC2026會在中國舉辦\n就像現在中國的長臂管轄會不斷的無限延伸他今天把台灣視為他的一部分他可以怎麼樣比如說明年我們的所謂領袖代表他可不可以先發制人的把他列為所謂的懲戒名單\n又或者是其他可能出席的官員代表也列為懲戒名單這個不是沒有喔包括我想剛剛有提到的我們的昭偉王定宇主席然後我們的沈伯洋委員甚至於過去像游錫堃院長蘇貞昌院長顧立雄當時是國安會現在是我們國防部長也就是說他可以無限延伸那麼在這個部分接下來我們再出席國際會議的時候雖然我們講到的這個部分就是\n我們不認同這個部分但是他會不會用這個方式讓台灣就此被消失或者是我們在出席的部分受到一些影響那麼請部長回答之外也請這個陸委會省副主委我先跟委員報告就是我們也是有這個當中國在去年啊MIDU APEC大會上申請要主辦明年的APEC的年會的時候我們就有要求\n中國必須公開承諾就是要確保我們所有出席人員的安全而且平等參與的權利所以當時他們的資深官員的代表盧梅亞最後還發函給所有的會員\n那這個事後包括當然美國啦有好的國家大家一起的支持認為我們在去年建立了一個很好的基礎因為已經有將近十幾年來中國每當APEC都企圖矮化台灣甚至兩岸之間的交涉都透過可能兩會而不是透過APEC我們的這種外交單位在進行那好今年在韓國進行的時候我們也非常密切注意是不是被矮化比如說在我們領袖代表的接機的時候一度\n有傳出不是由部長這個層級來接我們經過溝通韓國也最後確認是由他們的資深官員會議的主席親自到機場接機我們林信義領袖的代表\n所以我是覺得我們密切的注意那也希望今年在韓國這個慶周的經驗是奠定在APEC正常的一個規範之下那明年到了中國他會不會給我們什麼樣的矮化或什麼出什麼小動作我們都必須做好因應的準備\n好 那我有請神父主委其實齁 我們跟中國的部分很多的國際會議尤其是以亞洲為主題的時候在中國舉行的機會非常多包括像什麼杭州的亞運啊等等好 現在中國出招了不知道陸委會有沒有思考到這一個部分那就是\n他透過懲戒名單或者是透過他們想要立案追查誰之後這個過去我們談的是長臂管轄比如說在中國境外包括其他非中國的地區但是明年的APEC在中國舉行接下來\n中國也會舉行許多的國際會議或者是活動那麼這一招他們會不會就此變成是讓台灣出席國際活動或者是國際研討會等等的方式讓他沒有機會就是台灣沒有機會被曝光或者是被亮相甚至於在那一年就缺席這個部分陸委會有沒有思考到那麼有沒有想到如何來做因應\n是非常謝謝委員的提醒那我想剛剛已經有特別提到了其實中國大陸來講的話他還是會希望能夠正常的來跟台灣做一些交流當然也有更多他們想要不正常的一些方式來統戰台灣那我們也會不斷的去提醒他們如果用這樣子的這種無理的不文明的方式來打壓我們來參與一些這個國際活動的話那麼兩岸的這個交流也一定會受到不健康的這樣的氣氛所影響而沒辦法進行所以對於陸委會來講我們是料敵從嚴\n所以剛剛部長也特別提到了明年可能在中國大陸要辦APEC更甚至於有各式各樣的一些體育賽會都會在中國大陸辦那我們會不斷的來進行風險的提醒然後另外也會讓中國知道說他們在進行這樣子的一些破壞之後對於這一些在中國舉辦的活動來講都不會是一個好的包裝\n所以會擔心嗎那麼會認為說像比如說我先舉例115年在外交的部分那麼當然這個部分就是南海會議啊東協及周邊組織會議太平洋島國國際論壇那個農牧類的國際組織相關會議等等然後紡洗錢類的這個討論會然後亞洲開發銀行跟中美洲國際的年會也都會在言下之意就是\n琳瑯滿目不生美鼠各種的國際上面的交流會議那麼他現在只要鎖定會出席的人因為這一次我們看到沈伯陽委員選擇在APEC之前做這樣的發布那麼你們認為這個部分是不是就是有計劃性的鎖定未來在我們可能出席的會議當中製造所謂的心理戰\n那麼甚至於是輿論戰那麼剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到的就是說我們必須要有一個明確的宣示雖然他沒有這種牆壁管轄的權利但是回到中國境內的時候包括這一次沈伯陽委員他的這個發布是透過重慶的公安部門那麼言下之意是落地之後就會有危險這個部分我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案但是相關的我們國家的這種包括國安局或者是相關的\n會議當中是不是要把這個東西成為未來在明年115年度當中我們出席國際會議或者是國際交流在中國的時候一個重點的項目好 非常謝謝委員的提醒那首先就是剛剛您有提到說這次沈委員他被檢舉的是在重慶這其實就是一個矮話因為他用地方的這個公安的系統來去去懲治我們的這個國會議員這個某種程度來講已經是有精心的包裝了\n那再來第二個的話就是我們也會去建議或者說我們也會去設法突破這樣的情況舉個例子來講比如說非常有意義的一些國際交流我們可以主動來舉辦像這兩天我們看到說這個關於海底電纜的一些議題然後又組成了這個福爾摩沙的這個論壇在台灣來做舉辦\n所以我們不會去跟這個中國用這樣子的這種方式去跟他做零和的這個拼鬥跟這個競爭但是我們也會用更加的其他的這樣子的這個方法來去尋求我們在國際上面能夠盡量的被國際社會給看見好所以呢最後剛好剩下十幾\n十幾秒的時間我想要提醒的就是其實對於中國現在當然就是昨天我也特別詢問了國安局長蔡明彥蔡局長他特別提到這是法律戰認知戰跟心理戰的一個部分那麼對於這個部分因為接下來還有一些其他出席的他可能就不是政治人物不是民意代表\n他可能就是一般出席會議的相關的人士那麼在這裡如何確保他們的安全之外如何在輿論戰跟心理戰之內我們也要做一個回防的動作這個部分我想也是接下來陸委會必須要有所準備的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.469 --> 00:11.258\n謝謝主席主席先有請林佳龍林部長來部長好我們先讓陸委會休息一下還好今天陸委會來的是省副主委是不然的話我可能就要先寫公私分明\n\n00:13.931 --> 00:29.870\n好呃這個剛剛喔這個沈博洋沈蔚園有特別提到APEC那今天其實我們主要的是針對APEC之外也多加了一個當然就是中國特別牆壁管轄這把手伸到這個台灣的政治人物或名人的部分喔但是\n\n00:30.891 --> 00:53.728\n我想先請教部長的是我們知道在川習會目前正在登場當中不過在川習會之前川普先講了TaiwanisTaiwan說實話還好這個中國的長臂管轄是沒有到這個美國去啦不然他首先第一個他想要制裁或者是發出這個通緝令的應該是川普了吧因為他說TaiwanisTaiwan你怎麼看川普特別在川習會之前講了這一句話有些人認為他是對於整個我們現在亞太的區域安全\n\n01:00.353 --> 01:17.349\n做了一條新的界線那你怎麼來解讀我們對於所謂川習會會涉及台灣的議題當然要密切關心但不必過度擔心因為各界也都很關心因為是不是中國會利用川習會出招\n\n01:19.511 --> 01:43.032\n而且說有很多的呼籲那我們跟美國政府也密切的溝通那萬一有什麼狀況我們也會一起大家有協調怎麼來因應那我想我們就用川普的話來自己呈現就是台灣是台灣你這個如果習近平要談什麼那是你的事情可是我覺得美國的政策是很明確而且一致\n\n01:44.012 --> 01:54.556\n這也不太跟我們說明所以我們是對台美關係有信心那最重要的是其實美中跟美台關係可以是分開的那中國過去長期都打台灣牌來威脅利誘但是我想\n\n02:04.215 --> 02:24.432\n我們去想一種情境如果今天習近平自己提了台灣議題結果川普的回應不如他期待那他是不是很沒面子所以我想習近平也有他的判斷吧當然外界關心是因為每當這種高峰會的時候各界都會很關心不過我們對於台灣跟美國的關係我們是相當穩定的\n\n02:29.716 --> 02:54.197\n那是可以共同來應處任何可能來自於中國方面他的這個一些可能的訴求或壓力好我們知道在這個114年的時候包含追加預算回來之後我們的預算呢基本上在編列的部分明年會比今年要來得多那麼當然主要的還是因為我們的國際宣傳費用\n\n02:55.458 --> 03:15.334\n在這個部分在這個年度也就是2025年我們被刪除了但是2026年當然我們現在還是希望這個國際宣傳非常的重要因為真的就像川普講的台灣是台灣台灣要被看見喔但是我想要延伸閱讀一下因為剛剛我接在這個鋪馬委員的後面我也想問的就是APEC2026會在中國舉辦\n\n03:18.456 --> 03:20.797\n就像現在中國的長臂管轄會不斷的無限延伸他今天把台灣視為他的一部分他可以怎麼樣比如說明年我們的所謂領袖代表他可不可以先發制人的把他列為所謂的懲戒名單\n\n03:35.524 --> 04:04.644\n又或者是其他可能出席的官員代表也列為懲戒名單這個不是沒有喔包括我想剛剛有提到的我們的昭偉王定宇主席然後我們的沈伯洋委員甚至於過去像游錫堃院長蘇貞昌院長顧立雄當時是國安會現在是我們國防部長也就是說他可以無限延伸那麼在這個部分接下來我們再出席國際會議的時候雖然我們講到的這個部分就是\n\n04:05.764 --> 04:33.133\n我們不認同這個部分但是他會不會用這個方式讓台灣就此被消失或者是我們在出席的部分受到一些影響那麼請部長回答之外也請這個陸委會省副主委我先跟委員報告就是我們也是有這個當中國在去年啊MIDUAPEC大會上申請要主辦明年的APEC的年會的時候我們就有要求\n\n04:34.574 --> 04:48.189\n中國必須公開承諾就是要確保我們所有出席人員的安全而且平等參與的權利所以當時他們的資深官員的代表盧梅亞最後還發函給所有的會員\n\n04:49.631 --> 05:16.434\n那這個事後包括當然美國啦有好的國家大家一起的支持認為我們在去年建立了一個很好的基礎因為已經有將近十幾年來中國每當APEC都企圖矮化台灣甚至兩岸之間的交涉都透過可能兩會而不是透過APEC我們的這種外交單位在進行那好今年在韓國進行的時候我們也非常密切注意是不是被矮化比如說在我們領袖代表的接機的時候一度\n\n05:17.174 --> 05:19.536\n有傳出不是由部長這個層級來接我們經過溝通韓國也最後確認是由他們的資深官員會議的主席親自到機場接機我們林信義領袖的代表\n\n05:38.012 --> 05:51.144\n所以我是覺得我們密切的注意那也希望今年在韓國這個慶周的經驗是奠定在APEC正常的一個規範之下那明年到了中國他會不會給我們什麼樣的矮化或什麼出什麼小動作我們都必須做好因應的準備\n\n05:58.450 --> 06:13.762\n好那我有請神父主委其實齁我們跟中國的部分很多的國際會議尤其是以亞洲為主題的時候在中國舉行的機會非常多包括像什麼杭州的亞運啊等等好現在中國出招了不知道陸委會有沒有思考到這一個部分那就是\n\n06:14.182 --> 06:29.628\n他透過懲戒名單或者是透過他們想要立案追查誰之後這個過去我們談的是長臂管轄比如說在中國境外包括其他非中國的地區但是明年的APEC在中國舉行接下來\n\n06:30.188 --> 06:37.932\n中國也會舉行許多的國際會議或者是活動那麼這一招他們會不會就此變成是讓台灣出席國際活動或者是國際研討會等等的方式讓他沒有機會就是台灣沒有機會被曝光或者是被亮相甚至於在那一年就缺席這個部分陸委會有沒有思考到那麼有沒有想到如何來做因應\n\n06:55.282 --> 07:18.893\n是非常謝謝委員的提醒那我想剛剛已經有特別提到了其實中國大陸來講的話他還是會希望能夠正常的來跟台灣做一些交流當然也有更多他們想要不正常的一些方式來統戰台灣那我們也會不斷的去提醒他們如果用這樣子的這種無理的不文明的方式來打壓我們來參與一些這個國際活動的話那麼兩岸的這個交流也一定會受到不健康的這樣的氣氛所影響而沒辦法進行所以對於陸委會來講我們是料敵從嚴\n\n07:22.935 --> 07:40.474\n所以剛剛部長也特別提到了明年可能在中國大陸要辦APEC更甚至於有各式各樣的一些體育賽會都會在中國大陸辦那我們會不斷的來進行風險的提醒然後另外也會讓中國知道說他們在進行這樣子的一些破壞之後對於這一些在中國舉辦的活動來講都不會是一個好的包裝\n\n07:41.135 --> 07:51.380\n所以會擔心嗎那麼會認為說像比如說我先舉例115年在外交的部分那麼當然這個部分就是南海會議啊東協及周邊組織會議太平洋島國國際論壇那個農牧類的國際組織相關會議等等然後紡洗錢類的這個討論會然後亞洲開發銀行跟中美洲國際的年會也都會在言下之意就是\n\n08:04.907 --> 08:27.461\n琳瑯滿目不生美鼠各種的國際上面的交流會議那麼他現在只要鎖定會出席的人因為這一次我們看到沈伯陽委員選擇在APEC之前做這樣的發布那麼你們認為這個部分是不是就是有計劃性的鎖定未來在我們可能出席的會議當中製造所謂的心理戰\n\n08:28.402 --> 08:57.702\n那麼甚至於是輿論戰那麼剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到的就是說我們必須要有一個明確的宣示雖然他沒有這種牆壁管轄的權利但是回到中國境內的時候包括這一次沈伯陽委員他的這個發布是透過重慶的公安部門那麼言下之意是落地之後就會有危險這個部分我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案但是相關的我們國家的這種包括國安局或者是相關的\n\n08:59.703 --> 09:25.173\n會議當中是不是要把這個東西成為未來在明年115年度當中我們出席國際會議或者是國際交流在中國的時候一個重點的項目好非常謝謝委員的提醒那首先就是剛剛您有提到說這次沈委員他被檢舉的是在重慶這其實就是一個矮話因為他用地方的這個公安的系統來去去懲治我們的這個國會議員這個某種程度來講已經是有精心的包裝了\n\n09:25.973 --> 09:40.621\n那再來第二個的話就是我們也會去建議或者說我們也會去設法突破這樣的情況舉個例子來講比如說非常有意義的一些國際交流我們可以主動來舉辦像這兩天我們看到說這個關於海底電纜的一些議題然後又組成了這個福爾摩沙的這個論壇在台灣來做舉辦\n\n09:42.882 --> 09:58.891\n所以我們不會去跟這個中國用這樣子的這種方式去跟他做零和的這個拼鬥跟這個競爭但是我們也會用更加的其他的這樣子的這個方法來去尋求我們在國際上面能夠盡量的被國際社會給看見好所以呢最後剛好剩下十幾\n\n09:59.491 --> 10:18.313\n十幾秒的時間我想要提醒的就是其實對於中國現在當然就是昨天我也特別詢問了國安局長蔡明彥蔡局長他特別提到這是法律戰認知戰跟心理戰的一個部分那麼對於這個部分因為接下來還有一些其他出席的他可能就不是政治人物不是民意代表\n\n10:18.874 --> 10:31.666\n他可能就是一般出席會議的相關的人士那麼在這裡如何確保他們的安全之外如何在輿論戰跟心理戰之內我們也要做一個回防的動作這個部分我想也是接下來陸委會必須要有所準備的\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.469,"end":11.258,"text":"謝謝主席主席先有請林佳龍林部長來 部長好我們先讓陸委會休息一下還好今天陸委會來的是省副主委是不然的話我可能就要先寫公私分明"},{"start":13.931,"end":29.87,"text":"好 呃 這個剛剛喔 這個沈博洋 沈蔚園有特別提到APEC那今天其實我們主要的是針對APEC之外也多加了一個當然就是中國特別牆壁管轄這把手伸到這個台灣的政治人物或名人的部分喔 但是"},{"start":30.891,"end":53.728,"text":"我想先請教部長的是我們知道在川習會目前正在登場當中不過在川習會之前川普先講了Taiwan is Taiwan說實話還好這個中國的長臂管轄是沒有到這個美國去啦不然他首先第一個他想要制裁或者是發出這個通緝令的應該是川普了吧因為他說Taiwan is Taiwan你怎麼看川普特別在川習會之前講了這一句話有些人認為他是對於整個我們現在亞太的區域安全"},{"start":60.353,"end":77.349,"text":"做了一條新的界線那你怎麼來解讀我們對於所謂川習會會涉及台灣的議題當然要密切關心但不必過度擔心因為各界也都很關心因為是不是中國會利用川習會出招"},{"start":79.511,"end":103.032,"text":"而且說有很多的呼籲那我們跟美國政府也密切的溝通那萬一有什麼狀況我們也會一起大家有協調怎麼來因應那我想我們就用川普的話來自己呈現就是台灣是台灣你這個如果習近平要談什麼那是你的事情可是我覺得美國的政策是很明確而且一致"},{"start":104.012,"end":114.556,"text":"這也不太跟我們說明所以我們是對台美關係有信心那最重要的是其實美中跟美台關係可以是分開的那中國過去長期都打台灣牌來威脅利誘但是我想"},{"start":124.215,"end":144.432,"text":"我們去想一種情境如果今天習近平自己提了台灣議題結果川普的回應不如他期待那他是不是很沒面子所以我想習近平也有他的判斷吧當然外界關心是因為每當這種高峰會的時候各界都會很關心不過我們對於台灣跟美國的關係我們是相當穩定的"},{"start":149.716,"end":174.197,"text":"那是可以共同來應處任何可能來自於中國方面他的這個一些可能的訴求或壓力好 我們知道在這個114年的時候包含追加預算回來之後我們的預算呢基本上在編列的部分明年會比今年要來得多那麼當然主要的還是因為我們的國際宣傳費用"},{"start":175.458,"end":195.334,"text":"在這個部分在這個年度也就是2025年我們被刪除了但是2026年當然我們現在還是希望這個國際宣傳非常的重要因為真的就像川普講的台灣是台灣台灣要被看見喔但是我想要延伸閱讀一下因為剛剛我接在這個鋪馬委員的後面我也想問的就是APEC2026會在中國舉辦"},{"start":198.456,"end":200.797,"text":"就像現在中國的長臂管轄會不斷的無限延伸他今天把台灣視為他的一部分他可以怎麼樣比如說明年我們的所謂領袖代表他可不可以先發制人的把他列為所謂的懲戒名單"},{"start":215.524,"end":244.644,"text":"又或者是其他可能出席的官員代表也列為懲戒名單這個不是沒有喔包括我想剛剛有提到的我們的昭偉王定宇主席然後我們的沈伯洋委員甚至於過去像游錫堃院長蘇貞昌院長顧立雄當時是國安會現在是我們國防部長也就是說他可以無限延伸那麼在這個部分接下來我們再出席國際會議的時候雖然我們講到的這個部分就是"},{"start":245.764,"end":273.133,"text":"我們不認同這個部分但是他會不會用這個方式讓台灣就此被消失或者是我們在出席的部分受到一些影響那麼請部長回答之外也請這個陸委會省副主委我先跟委員報告就是我們也是有這個當中國在去年啊MIDU APEC大會上申請要主辦明年的APEC的年會的時候我們就有要求"},{"start":274.574,"end":288.189,"text":"中國必須公開承諾就是要確保我們所有出席人員的安全而且平等參與的權利所以當時他們的資深官員的代表盧梅亞最後還發函給所有的會員"},{"start":289.631,"end":316.434,"text":"那這個事後包括當然美國啦有好的國家大家一起的支持認為我們在去年建立了一個很好的基礎因為已經有將近十幾年來中國每當APEC都企圖矮化台灣甚至兩岸之間的交涉都透過可能兩會而不是透過APEC我們的這種外交單位在進行那好今年在韓國進行的時候我們也非常密切注意是不是被矮化比如說在我們領袖代表的接機的時候一度"},{"start":317.174,"end":319.536,"text":"有傳出不是由部長這個層級來接我們經過溝通韓國也最後確認是由他們的資深官員會議的主席親自到機場接機我們林信義領袖的代表"},{"start":338.012,"end":351.144,"text":"所以我是覺得我們密切的注意那也希望今年在韓國這個慶周的經驗是奠定在APEC正常的一個規範之下那明年到了中國他會不會給我們什麼樣的矮化或什麼出什麼小動作我們都必須做好因應的準備"},{"start":358.45,"end":373.762,"text":"好 那我有請神父主委其實齁 我們跟中國的部分很多的國際會議尤其是以亞洲為主題的時候在中國舉行的機會非常多包括像什麼杭州的亞運啊等等好 現在中國出招了不知道陸委會有沒有思考到這一個部分那就是"},{"start":374.182,"end":389.628,"text":"他透過懲戒名單或者是透過他們想要立案追查誰之後這個過去我們談的是長臂管轄比如說在中國境外包括其他非中國的地區但是明年的APEC在中國舉行接下來"},{"start":390.188,"end":397.932,"text":"中國也會舉行許多的國際會議或者是活動那麼這一招他們會不會就此變成是讓台灣出席國際活動或者是國際研討會等等的方式讓他沒有機會就是台灣沒有機會被曝光或者是被亮相甚至於在那一年就缺席這個部分陸委會有沒有思考到那麼有沒有想到如何來做因應"},{"start":415.282,"end":438.893,"text":"是非常謝謝委員的提醒那我想剛剛已經有特別提到了其實中國大陸來講的話他還是會希望能夠正常的來跟台灣做一些交流當然也有更多他們想要不正常的一些方式來統戰台灣那我們也會不斷的去提醒他們如果用這樣子的這種無理的不文明的方式來打壓我們來參與一些這個國際活動的話那麼兩岸的這個交流也一定會受到不健康的這樣的氣氛所影響而沒辦法進行所以對於陸委會來講我們是料敵從嚴"},{"start":442.935,"end":460.474,"text":"所以剛剛部長也特別提到了明年可能在中國大陸要辦APEC更甚至於有各式各樣的一些體育賽會都會在中國大陸辦那我們會不斷的來進行風險的提醒然後另外也會讓中國知道說他們在進行這樣子的一些破壞之後對於這一些在中國舉辦的活動來講都不會是一個好的包裝"},{"start":461.135,"end":471.38,"text":"所以會擔心嗎那麼會認為說像比如說我先舉例115年在外交的部分那麼當然這個部分就是南海會議啊東協及周邊組織會議太平洋島國國際論壇那個農牧類的國際組織相關會議等等然後紡洗錢類的這個討論會然後亞洲開發銀行跟中美洲國際的年會也都會在言下之意就是"},{"start":484.907,"end":507.461,"text":"琳瑯滿目不生美鼠各種的國際上面的交流會議那麼他現在只要鎖定會出席的人因為這一次我們看到沈伯陽委員選擇在APEC之前做這樣的發布那麼你們認為這個部分是不是就是有計劃性的鎖定未來在我們可能出席的會議當中製造所謂的心理戰"},{"start":508.402,"end":537.702,"text":"那麼甚至於是輿論戰那麼剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到的就是說我們必須要有一個明確的宣示雖然他沒有這種牆壁管轄的權利但是回到中國境內的時候包括這一次沈伯陽委員他的這個發布是透過重慶的公安部門那麼言下之意是落地之後就會有危險這個部分我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案但是相關的我們國家的這種包括國安局或者是相關的"},{"start":539.703,"end":565.173,"text":"會議當中是不是要把這個東西成為未來在明年115年度當中我們出席國際會議或者是國際交流在中國的時候一個重點的項目好 非常謝謝委員的提醒那首先就是剛剛您有提到說這次沈委員他被檢舉的是在重慶這其實就是一個矮話因為他用地方的這個公安的系統來去去懲治我們的這個國會議員這個某種程度來講已經是有精心的包裝了"},{"start":565.973,"end":580.621,"text":"那再來第二個的話就是我們也會去建議或者說我們也會去設法突破這樣的情況舉個例子來講比如說非常有意義的一些國際交流我們可以主動來舉辦像這兩天我們看到說這個關於海底電纜的一些議題然後又組成了這個福爾摩沙的這個論壇在台灣來做舉辦"},{"start":582.882,"end":598.891,"text":"所以我們不會去跟這個中國用這樣子的這種方式去跟他做零和的這個拼鬥跟這個競爭但是我們也會用更加的其他的這樣子的這個方法來去尋求我們在國際上面能夠盡量的被國際社會給看見好所以呢最後剛好剩下十幾"},{"start":599.491,"end":618.313,"text":"十幾秒的時間我想要提醒的就是其實對於中國現在當然就是昨天我也特別詢問了國安局長蔡明彥蔡局長他特別提到這是法律戰認知戰跟心理戰的一個部分那麼對於這個部分因為接下來還有一些其他出席的他可能就不是政治人物不是民意代表"},{"start":618.874,"end":631.666,"text":"他可能就是一般出席會議的相關的人士那麼在這裡如何確保他們的安全之外如何在輿論戰跟心理戰之內我們也要做一個回防的動作這個部分我想也是接下來陸委會必須要有所準備的"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":448,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時57分）謝謝主席，主席先有請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林委員楚茵：我們先讓陸委會休息一下，還好今天陸委會來的是沈副主委，不然的話，我可能就要先寫公私分明。剛剛沈伯洋委員有特別提到APEC，今天其實我們主要的是針對APEC之外，也多加了一個，當然就是中國特別長臂管轄，就是把手伸到台灣的政治人物或名人。我想先請教部長的是，我們知道川習會目前正在登場當中，不過在川習會之前，川普先講了Taiwan is Taiwan，說實話，還好中國的長臂管轄沒有到美國，不然他首先第一個想要制裁或者發出通緝令的應該是川普了吧！因為他說Taiwan is Taiwan，你怎麼看川普特別在川習會之前講了這一句話？有些人認為他是對於整個現在亞太的區域安全做了一條新的界線，您怎麼解讀？"],["林部長佳龍：我們對於所謂川習會會涉及台灣的議題，當然要密切關心，但不必過度擔心，因為各界也都很關心是不是中國會利用川習會出招，也說有很多的呼籲，我們跟美國政府也密切溝通，萬一有什麼狀況，我們也會一起與大家協調，看怎麼來因應。我想我們就用川普的話來自己呈現，就是Taiwan is Taiwan，如果習近平要談什麼，那是他的事情，可是我覺得美國的政策是很明確而且一致，這也不斷在跟我們說明，所以我們對台美關係有信心。最重要的是，其實美中跟美台關係可以是分開的，中國過去長期都打台灣牌來威脅利誘，我們去想一種情境，如果今天習近平自己提了台灣議題，結果川普的回應不如他期待，那他是不是很沒面子？"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["林部長佳龍：所以我想習近平也有他的判斷吧！"],["林委員楚茵：好。"],["林部長佳龍：當然外界關心是因為每當這種高峰會的時候，各界都會很關心。不過我們對於台灣跟美國的關係是相當穩定的，是可以共同應處任何可能來自於中國方面的一些訴求或壓力。"],["林委員楚茵：好。我們知道在114年的時候，包含追加預算回來之後，我們的預算基本上在編列的部分，明年會比今年要來得多，當然主要還是因為國際宣傳費用在這個年度（2025年）被刪除了，但是2026年我們現在還是希望……因為國際宣傳非常重要，也真的就像川普所講的「Taiwan is Taiwan」，台灣要被看見！","但是我想要延伸閱讀一下，因為我接在Puma委員的後面，我也想問的就是，APEC 2026會在中國舉辦，就像現在中國的長臂管轄會不斷地無限延伸，他今天把台灣視為他的一部分，他可以怎麼樣？比如明年針對我們的領袖代表，他可不可以先發制人將其列為所謂的懲戒名單？又或者是其他可能出席的官員代表也被列為懲戒名單，這個不是沒有！包括剛剛提到的我們的召委──王定宇主席、沈伯洋委員，甚至於過去游錫堃院長、蘇貞昌院長、當時是國安會秘書長的顧立雄，現在是我們的國防部長，也就是說他們可以無限延伸，那麼接下來我們在出席國際會議的時候，雖然我們不認同這個部分，但是他會不會用這個方式讓台灣就此被消失？或者是我們在出席的時候受到一些影響？請部長回答之外，也請陸委會沈副主委。"],["林部長佳龍：我先跟委員報告，去年中國在秘魯APEC大會上申請要主辦明年APEC年會的時候，我們就有要求中國必須公開承諾，確保我們所有出席人員安全而且平等參與的權利。所以當時他們的資深官員代表魯梅最後還發函給所有會員，事後包括美國等友好國家大家一起支持，認為我們在去年建立了一個很好的基礎，因為十幾年來中國每當在APEC的時候都企圖矮化台灣，甚至兩岸之間的交涉都透過兩會，而不是透過APEC這種外交單位在進行。今年在韓國進行的時候，我們也非常密切注意是不是被矮化，比如在我們的領袖代表接機的時候，一度有傳出不是由部長層級來接。我們經過溝通，韓國最後確認是由他們的資深官員會議主席親自到機場接機我方領袖代表林信義。我是覺得我們密切注意，今年在韓國慶州的經驗是奠定在APEC正常的規範之下，至於明年到了中國，他會不會給我們什麼樣的矮化或出什麼小動作，我們都必須做好因應準備。"],["林委員楚茵：有請沈副主委。其實我們跟中國有很多國際會議，尤其是以亞洲為主題的時候，在中國舉行的機會非常多，包括杭州亞運等等，現在中國出招了，不知道陸委會有沒有思考到這個部分？那就是他透過懲戒名單，或者是透過他們想要立案追查誰之後……過去我們談的是長臂管轄，比如在中國境外，包括其他非中國的地區，但是明年的APEC在中國舉行，接下來中國也會舉行許多國際會議或者是活動，這一招他們會不會就此變成讓台灣出席國際活動或者是國際研討會等等的方式，讓台灣沒有機會被曝光或者是被亮相，甚至於在那一年就缺席？針對這個部分陸委會有沒有思考到？有沒有想到如何因應？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：非常謝謝委員的提醒。我想剛剛已經有特別提到，其實中國大陸來講，還是會希望能夠正常跟台灣做一些交流，當然還有更多他們想要不正常的方式來統戰台灣，我們也會不斷地去提醒他們，如果用這樣子無理、不文明的方式打壓我們參與一些國際活動的話，那麼兩岸交流也一定會受到不健康的氣氛影響而沒辦法進行。所以對於陸委會來講，我們是料敵從嚴，剛剛部長也特別提到明年可能要在中國大陸辦APEC，甚至還有各式各樣的體育賽會都會在中國大陸舉辦。我們會不斷進行風險提醒，另外也會讓中國知道，他們在進行一些這樣子的破壞之後，對於這些在中國舉辦的活動都不會是好的包裝。"],["林委員楚茵：所以會擔心嗎？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：會。"],["林委員楚茵：比如我先舉例，115年在外交的部分有南海會議、東協及周邊組織會議、太平洋島國論壇會議、農牧類國際組織相關會議等等，還有防洗錢類的討論會、亞洲開發銀行及中美洲銀行年會也都有，言下之意就是有琳瑯滿目、不勝枚舉各種國際上的交流會議，他們現在只要鎖定會出席的人。這次我們看到選擇在APEC會議之前，針對沈伯洋委員作這樣的發布，你們認為這部分是不是就是有計畫性鎖定，未來在我們可能出席的會議當中製造所謂的心理戰，甚至於是輿論戰？","剛剛主席王定宇委員也特別提到，我們必須要有一個明確的宣示，雖然他們有長臂管轄的權利，但是回到中國境內的時候，包括這一次沈伯洋委員的這個發布是透過重慶公安部門，言下之意是落地之後就會有危險！針對這個部分，我不會第一時間要求陸委會給答案，但是我們國家包括國安局或者是相關會議，是不是要把這個東西成為未來在明（115）年我們在中國出席國際會議或者是國際交流的時候一個重點項目？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：非常謝謝委員的提醒。首先就是剛剛您有提到這次沈委員被檢舉的是在重慶，其實這就是一個矮化，因為他用地方的公安系統懲治我們的國會議員，某種程度來講這已經是精心的包裝了。再來第二個，我們也會建議，或者我們也會設法突破這樣的情況。舉個例子來講，比如說非常有意義的一些國際交流，我們可以主動舉辦，像這兩天我們看到關於海底電纜的一些議題，然後有組成福爾摩沙論壇在台灣舉辦。我們不會跟中國用這樣子的方式跟他做零和拚鬥和競爭，但是我們會用其他更佳的方法，尋求我們在國際上面能夠儘量地被國際社會看見。"],["林委員楚茵：好。最後剛好剩下十幾秒的時間，我想要提醒的是，昨天我特別詢問國安局蔡明彥蔡局長，他特別提到這是法律戰、認知戰跟心理戰的一個部分。因為接下來還有一些出席的可能不是政治人物、不是民意代表，可能就只是一般出席會議的相關人士，除了確保他們的安全之外，如何在輿論戰跟心理戰之內我們也要做回防的動作，這個部分我想也是接下來陸委會必須要有所準備的。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：好，沒有問題，我們也會提醒我們另一位副主委出國要小心。"],["林委員楚茵：對，公私分明。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，副主委請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員馬文君委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","賴士葆","范雲","邱志偉","陳永康","林憶君","黃捷","黃仁","牛煦庭"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部、經濟部、大陸委員會報告「我國參與2025年度『亞太經濟合作（APEC）經濟領\n袖會議』的任務及目標」，並備質詢；二、邀請國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會、法務部、法\n務部調查局報告「中共對台進行長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓及我國相關應處」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00010"}}}