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400.017, \"score\": 0.227}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,390 --> 00:00:10,926\n請陸委會副主委來沈副主委委員好\n\n2\n00:00:11,972 --> 00:00:29,833\n陸委會副主委早安我想我們今天到這兒其實很多委員都是關心的跨境鎮壓的議題那剛剛我們也已經討論到其實他現在沈博洋委員是政治人物但是這一起事件我們看到的他不是單一的個案\n\n3\n00:00:30,313 --> 00:00:53,866\n因為我們除了政治人物像我們那個昭偉過去也被公告過那現在沈博洋這個是立案那其實我們的軍公教裡面軍已經據說也已經上榜了那公的話以司法體系的話檢察官的那只要執行國家的法令跟國安相關的那也可能上榜\n\n4\n00:00:54,406 --> 00:01:14,644\n那未來就是叫那這一次還有推動民防的公民團體也被捲入所以真的是讓大家覺得不只是言論自由那工作權人身安全都受到威脅那我想講的是要感謝昭偉今天我們國會有這個報告\n\n5\n00:01:16,645 --> 00:01:39,384\n因為別的國會早就在關注這個問題那今年七月我受邀參加美國國會跨黨派議員提出的跨國鎮壓政策法案草案的聽證會那很榮幸做一個台灣國會議員在那裡分享就是我們的國家的經驗我當時舉的是我們蕭美琴準總統\n\n6\n00:01:40,565 --> 00:01:58,921\n還有沈博洋在網路上受到的中國網軍的各種攻擊其實跨國鎮壓已經發生當然不是只有美國國會他是在準備立法關注他們的而且看到的都是中共加拿大\n\n7\n00:01:59,401 --> 00:02:18,074\n去年就通過反外國干預法他們的國會明確把外國勢力的騷擾恐惡等行為視為刑事犯罪而且要求該國建立外國影響力註冊當然我們也知道很多主要是針對中共或中國英國的國會\n\n8\n00:02:19,415 --> 00:02:42,986\n今年也舉辦了公聽會聽證會他除了跨黨派的聽證會之外英國國會完成完整調查要求政府制定跨國鎮壓的明確定義建立受害者通報機制完善數據收集監測機制建立跨國互助機制我現在是想問那個副主委\n\n9\n00:02:44,306 --> 00:03:08,612\n今天外交部的報告也有講到自由之家的一些統計就是過去10年1,219件跨國鎮壓那發動的主要來自中國中共的佔22%算是最大國所以台灣當然現在它過去可能是針對譬如說瑞典籍的香港人等等或者是在美國籍的華人現在針對的是我們中華民國的國民\n\n10\n00:03:11,213 --> 00:03:23,203\n以自由之家的因應做法說最好的做法是要承認威脅提升執法認知提供主動保護您覺得我們台灣在這三方面做得如何\n\n11\n00:03:24,065 --> 00:03:51,339\n非常謝謝委員您提問非常多因為目前看起來好像只有民進黨籍的特別關切這個問題是非常謝謝委員那我也想舉一個例子來講譬如說中共他也想要利用2758號決議文來打壓台灣在國際上的生活空間我之所以舉這個例子是因為我們確實有看到很多的國家有注意到這些事情那麼這個跨境鎮壓剛剛您所提到的這些例子都非常棒但是我們看到2758號舉這個例子來講我們也非常希望台灣自己本身的國會也可以提出一個譴責\n\n12\n00:03:52,419 --> 00:04:06,792\n所以包含像這次省委員的案子如果說我們台灣能夠不分黨派一致的來表達對於中共這個行為的不滿意的話那麼將會達到一定的這樣的團結跟嚇阻作用所以我們也非常希望這個議題可以再謝謝喔是那我也希望喔如您講的我們跨黨派提出譴責那我也希望比照英國國會喔如果我們跨黨派沒有譴責的話行政部門是不是能夠更主動的保護喔\n\n13\n00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:34,539\n那是不是給我20秒就是那個外交部長林部長還有我們的國安的陳副局長跟黃市長因為我希望就是說我們比照英國國會跨黨陸委會主委您也先留步一下最後一頁是說今天非常多的事情\n\n14\n00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:59,526\n我們如果以英國國會的標準來講的話我想前兩項部分跨境鎮壓明確定受害者通報機制這應該可以是陸委會做的完善數據蒐集和監測機制是不是國安單位那後面三個因為這都是涉及到我們海外公民國人在海外的安全建立跨國互助機制我看外交部的報告寫得很好都有在做或準備做\n\n15\n00:05:00,186 --> 00:05:19,600\n還有協助駐外單位的監測並評估風險提供國人警示國家名單我覺得如果加拿大美國英國都已經跨黨派在做這樣的工作的話那是不是能夠請剛剛有回答蠻多的就是在做我想這是一個重要的外交工作\n\n16\n00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:46,516\n因為不能夠只限縮在中華民國我們自己的努力有這麼多國家在努力是不是可以協助我們法務國安就是說相關的建立跨國互助機制把這幾項工作還有法務部我們跟加拿大英國美國相比我們是不是有更要完善的部分能夠一起有一個跨部會的協調會議完善這幾項工作不知道部長還有幾位可以同意嗎\n\n17\n00:05:47,536 --> 00:05:59,403\n報告委員我們會跟入委會邀集相關的部會單位來協調怎麼樣分工合作好那個次長司法我知道你們也有在做一些跨國的努力了可以嗎\n\n18\n00:06:00,407 --> 00:06:18,935\n好我們會來演繹會跟外交部跟陸委會一起好那那個國安的副局長陳副局長可以嗎我們也會跟外交部一起來努力好謝謝那陸委會我想這是兩邊兩者要合作好那請問部長可以多久內我覺得不只是跨部會還需要立法院一起加油我們一起跨黨派\n\n19\n00:06:19,796 --> 00:06:40,017\n王定義委員會促成跨黨派一起努力今天這個我想報告是一個很好的開始那我們要追上其他國家國會的跨黨派努力好嗎那部長請問多久內可以給本席跟外交國防委員會一個報告書面報告我們一般是兩個月給他們兩個月這樣兩個月可以嗎好可以好謝謝謝謝召委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n390\t10926\t請陸委會副主委來 沈副主委委員好\n11972\t29833\t陸委會副主委早安我想我們今天到這兒其實很多委員都是關心的跨境鎮壓的議題那剛剛我們也已經討論到其實他現在沈博洋委員是政治人物但是這一起事件我們看到的他不是單一的個案\n30313\t53866\t因為我們除了政治人物像我們那個昭偉過去也被公告過那現在沈博洋這個是立案那其實我們的軍公教裡面軍已經據說也已經上榜了那公的話以司法體系的話檢察官的那只要執行國家的法令跟國安相關的那也可能上榜\n54406\t74644\t那未來就是叫那這一次還有推動民防的公民團體也被捲入所以真的是讓大家覺得不只是言論自由那工作權人身安全都受到威脅那我想講的是要感謝昭偉今天我們國會有這個報告\n76645\t99384\t因為別的國會早就在關注這個問題那今年七月我受邀參加美國國會跨黨派議員提出的跨國鎮壓政策法案草案的聽證會那很榮幸做一個台灣國會議員在那裡分享就是我們的國家的經驗我當時舉的是我們蕭美琴準總統\n100565\t118921\t還有沈博洋在網路上受到的中國網軍的各種攻擊其實跨國鎮壓已經發生當然不是只有美國國會他是在準備立法關注他們的而且看到的都是中共加拿大\n119401\t138074\t去年就通過反外國干預法他們的國會明確把外國勢力的騷擾恐惡等行為視為刑事犯罪而且要求該國建立外國影響力註冊當然我們也知道很多主要是針對中共或中國英國的國會\n139415\t162986\t今年也舉辦了公聽會聽證會他除了跨黨派的聽證會之外英國國會完成完整調查要求政府制定跨國鎮壓的明確定義建立受害者通報機制完善數據收集監測機制建立跨國互助機制我現在是想問那個副主委\n164306\t188612\t今天外交部的報告也有講到自由之家的一些統計就是過去10年1,219件跨國鎮壓那發動的主要來自中國中共的佔22%算是最大國所以台灣當然現在它過去可能是針對譬如說瑞典籍的香港人等等或者是在美國籍的華人現在針對的是我們中華民國的國民\n191213\t203203\t以自由之家的因應做法說最好的做法是要承認威脅提升執法認知提供主動保護您覺得我們台灣在這三方面做得如何\n204065\t231339\t非常謝謝委員您提問非常多因為目前看起來好像只有民進黨籍的特別關切這個問題是非常謝謝委員那我也想舉一個例子來講譬如說中共他也想要利用2758號決議文來打壓台灣在國際上的生活空間我之所以舉這個例子是因為我們確實有看到很多的國家有注意到這些事情那麼這個跨境鎮壓剛剛您所提到的這些例子都非常棒但是我們看到2758號舉這個例子來講我們也非常希望台灣自己本身的國會也可以提出一個譴責\n232419\t246792\t所以包含像這次省委員的案子如果說我們台灣能夠不分黨派一致的來表達對於中共這個行為的不滿意的話那麼將會達到一定的這樣的團結跟嚇阻作用所以我們也非常希望這個議題可以再謝謝喔 是那我也希望喔 如您講的我們跨黨派提出譴責那我也希望比照英國國會喔如果我們跨黨派沒有譴責的話行政部門是不是能夠更主動的保護喔\n256300\t274539\t那是不是給我20秒就是那個外交部長林部長還有我們的國安的陳副局長跟黃市長因為我希望就是說我們比照英國國會跨黨陸委會主委您也先留步一下最後一頁是說今天非常多的事情\n275280\t299526\t我們如果以英國國會的標準來講的話我想前兩項部分跨境鎮壓明確定受害者通報機制這應該可以是陸委會做的完善數據蒐集和監測機制是不是國安單位那後面三個因為這都是涉及到我們海外公民國人在海外的安全建立跨國互助機制我看外交部的報告寫得很好都有在做或準備做\n300186\t319600\t還有協助駐外單位的監測並評估風險提供國人警示國家名單我覺得如果加拿大 美國 英國都已經跨黨派在做這樣的工作的話那是不是能夠請剛剛有回答蠻多的就是在做我想這是一個重要的外交工作\n320080\t346516\t因為不能夠只限縮在中華民國我們自己的努力有這麼多國家在努力是不是可以協助我們法務國安就是說相關的建立跨國互助機制把這幾項工作還有法務部我們跟加拿大 英國 美國相比我們是不是有更要完善的部分能夠一起有一個跨部會的協調會議完善這幾項工作不知道部長還有幾位可以同意嗎\n347536\t359403\t報告委員 我們會跟入委會邀集相關的部會單位來協調怎麼樣分工合作好 那個次長司法我知道你們也有在做一些跨國的努力了可以嗎\n360407\t378935\t好 我們會來演繹 會跟外交部跟陸委會一起好 那那個國安的副局長 陳副局長可以嗎我們也會跟外交部一起來努力好 謝謝 那陸委會我想這是兩邊 兩者要合作好 那請問部長可以多久內我覺得不只是跨部會 還需要立法院一起加油我們一起跨黨派\n379796\t400017\t王定義委員會促成跨黨派一起努力今天這個我想報告是一個很好的開始那我們要追上其他國家 國會的跨黨派努力好嗎那部長請問多久內可以給本席跟外交國防委員會一個報告書面報告我們一般是兩個月給他們兩個月 這樣兩個月可以嗎好 可以好 謝謝 謝謝召委\n","txt":"請陸委會副主委來 沈副主委委員好\n陸委會副主委早安我想我們今天到這兒其實很多委員都是關心的跨境鎮壓的議題那剛剛我們也已經討論到其實他現在沈博洋委員是政治人物但是這一起事件我們看到的他不是單一的個案\n因為我們除了政治人物像我們那個昭偉過去也被公告過那現在沈博洋這個是立案那其實我們的軍公教裡面軍已經據說也已經上榜了那公的話以司法體系的話檢察官的那只要執行國家的法令跟國安相關的那也可能上榜\n那未來就是叫那這一次還有推動民防的公民團體也被捲入所以真的是讓大家覺得不只是言論自由那工作權人身安全都受到威脅那我想講的是要感謝昭偉今天我們國會有這個報告\n因為別的國會早就在關注這個問題那今年七月我受邀參加美國國會跨黨派議員提出的跨國鎮壓政策法案草案的聽證會那很榮幸做一個台灣國會議員在那裡分享就是我們的國家的經驗我當時舉的是我們蕭美琴準總統\n還有沈博洋在網路上受到的中國網軍的各種攻擊其實跨國鎮壓已經發生當然不是只有美國國會他是在準備立法關注他們的而且看到的都是中共加拿大\n去年就通過反外國干預法他們的國會明確把外國勢力的騷擾恐惡等行為視為刑事犯罪而且要求該國建立外國影響力註冊當然我們也知道很多主要是針對中共或中國英國的國會\n今年也舉辦了公聽會聽證會他除了跨黨派的聽證會之外英國國會完成完整調查要求政府制定跨國鎮壓的明確定義建立受害者通報機制完善數據收集監測機制建立跨國互助機制我現在是想問那個副主委\n今天外交部的報告也有講到自由之家的一些統計就是過去10年1,219件跨國鎮壓那發動的主要來自中國中共的佔22%算是最大國所以台灣當然現在它過去可能是針對譬如說瑞典籍的香港人等等或者是在美國籍的華人現在針對的是我們中華民國的國民\n以自由之家的因應做法說最好的做法是要承認威脅提升執法認知提供主動保護您覺得我們台灣在這三方面做得如何\n非常謝謝委員您提問非常多因為目前看起來好像只有民進黨籍的特別關切這個問題是非常謝謝委員那我也想舉一個例子來講譬如說中共他也想要利用2758號決議文來打壓台灣在國際上的生活空間我之所以舉這個例子是因為我們確實有看到很多的國家有注意到這些事情那麼這個跨境鎮壓剛剛您所提到的這些例子都非常棒但是我們看到2758號舉這個例子來講我們也非常希望台灣自己本身的國會也可以提出一個譴責\n所以包含像這次省委員的案子如果說我們台灣能夠不分黨派一致的來表達對於中共這個行為的不滿意的話那麼將會達到一定的這樣的團結跟嚇阻作用所以我們也非常希望這個議題可以再謝謝喔 是那我也希望喔 如您講的我們跨黨派提出譴責那我也希望比照英國國會喔如果我們跨黨派沒有譴責的話行政部門是不是能夠更主動的保護喔\n那是不是給我20秒就是那個外交部長林部長還有我們的國安的陳副局長跟黃市長因為我希望就是說我們比照英國國會跨黨陸委會主委您也先留步一下最後一頁是說今天非常多的事情\n我們如果以英國國會的標準來講的話我想前兩項部分跨境鎮壓明確定受害者通報機制這應該可以是陸委會做的完善數據蒐集和監測機制是不是國安單位那後面三個因為這都是涉及到我們海外公民國人在海外的安全建立跨國互助機制我看外交部的報告寫得很好都有在做或準備做\n還有協助駐外單位的監測並評估風險提供國人警示國家名單我覺得如果加拿大 美國 英國都已經跨黨派在做這樣的工作的話那是不是能夠請剛剛有回答蠻多的就是在做我想這是一個重要的外交工作\n因為不能夠只限縮在中華民國我們自己的努力有這麼多國家在努力是不是可以協助我們法務國安就是說相關的建立跨國互助機制把這幾項工作還有法務部我們跟加拿大 英國 美國相比我們是不是有更要完善的部分能夠一起有一個跨部會的協調會議完善這幾項工作不知道部長還有幾位可以同意嗎\n報告委員 我們會跟入委會邀集相關的部會單位來協調怎麼樣分工合作好 那個次長司法我知道你們也有在做一些跨國的努力了可以嗎\n好 我們會來演繹 會跟外交部跟陸委會一起好 那那個國安的副局長 陳副局長可以嗎我們也會跟外交部一起來努力好 謝謝 那陸委會我想這是兩邊 兩者要合作好 那請問部長可以多久內我覺得不只是跨部會 還需要立法院一起加油我們一起跨黨派\n王定義委員會促成跨黨派一起努力今天這個我想報告是一個很好的開始那我們要追上其他國家 國會的跨黨派努力好嗎那部長請問多久內可以給本席跟外交國防委員會一個報告書面報告我們一般是兩個月給他們兩個月 這樣兩個月可以嗎好 可以好 謝謝 謝謝召委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.390 --> 00:10.926\n請陸委會副主委來沈副主委委員好\n\n00:11.972 --> 00:29.833\n陸委會副主委早安我想我們今天到這兒其實很多委員都是關心的跨境鎮壓的議題那剛剛我們也已經討論到其實他現在沈博洋委員是政治人物但是這一起事件我們看到的他不是單一的個案\n\n00:30.313 --> 00:53.866\n因為我們除了政治人物像我們那個昭偉過去也被公告過那現在沈博洋這個是立案那其實我們的軍公教裡面軍已經據說也已經上榜了那公的話以司法體系的話檢察官的那只要執行國家的法令跟國安相關的那也可能上榜\n\n00:54.406 --> 01:14.644\n那未來就是叫那這一次還有推動民防的公民團體也被捲入所以真的是讓大家覺得不只是言論自由那工作權人身安全都受到威脅那我想講的是要感謝昭偉今天我們國會有這個報告\n\n01:16.645 --> 01:39.384\n因為別的國會早就在關注這個問題那今年七月我受邀參加美國國會跨黨派議員提出的跨國鎮壓政策法案草案的聽證會那很榮幸做一個台灣國會議員在那裡分享就是我們的國家的經驗我當時舉的是我們蕭美琴準總統\n\n01:40.565 --> 01:58.921\n還有沈博洋在網路上受到的中國網軍的各種攻擊其實跨國鎮壓已經發生當然不是只有美國國會他是在準備立法關注他們的而且看到的都是中共加拿大\n\n01:59.401 --> 02:18.074\n去年就通過反外國干預法他們的國會明確把外國勢力的騷擾恐惡等行為視為刑事犯罪而且要求該國建立外國影響力註冊當然我們也知道很多主要是針對中共或中國英國的國會\n\n02:19.415 --> 02:42.986\n今年也舉辦了公聽會聽證會他除了跨黨派的聽證會之外英國國會完成完整調查要求政府制定跨國鎮壓的明確定義建立受害者通報機制完善數據收集監測機制建立跨國互助機制我現在是想問那個副主委\n\n02:44.306 --> 03:08.612\n今天外交部的報告也有講到自由之家的一些統計就是過去10年1,219件跨國鎮壓那發動的主要來自中國中共的佔22%算是最大國所以台灣當然現在它過去可能是針對譬如說瑞典籍的香港人等等或者是在美國籍的華人現在針對的是我們中華民國的國民\n\n03:11.213 --> 03:23.203\n以自由之家的因應做法說最好的做法是要承認威脅提升執法認知提供主動保護您覺得我們台灣在這三方面做得如何\n\n03:24.065 --> 03:51.339\n非常謝謝委員您提問非常多因為目前看起來好像只有民進黨籍的特別關切這個問題是非常謝謝委員那我也想舉一個例子來講譬如說中共他也想要利用2758號決議文來打壓台灣在國際上的生活空間我之所以舉這個例子是因為我們確實有看到很多的國家有注意到這些事情那麼這個跨境鎮壓剛剛您所提到的這些例子都非常棒但是我們看到2758號舉這個例子來講我們也非常希望台灣自己本身的國會也可以提出一個譴責\n\n03:52.419 --> 04:06.792\n所以包含像這次省委員的案子如果說我們台灣能夠不分黨派一致的來表達對於中共這個行為的不滿意的話那麼將會達到一定的這樣的團結跟嚇阻作用所以我們也非常希望這個議題可以再謝謝喔是那我也希望喔如您講的我們跨黨派提出譴責那我也希望比照英國國會喔如果我們跨黨派沒有譴責的話行政部門是不是能夠更主動的保護喔\n\n04:16.300 --> 04:34.539\n那是不是給我20秒就是那個外交部長林部長還有我們的國安的陳副局長跟黃市長因為我希望就是說我們比照英國國會跨黨陸委會主委您也先留步一下最後一頁是說今天非常多的事情\n\n04:35.280 --> 04:59.526\n我們如果以英國國會的標準來講的話我想前兩項部分跨境鎮壓明確定受害者通報機制這應該可以是陸委會做的完善數據蒐集和監測機制是不是國安單位那後面三個因為這都是涉及到我們海外公民國人在海外的安全建立跨國互助機制我看外交部的報告寫得很好都有在做或準備做\n\n05:00.186 --> 05:19.600\n還有協助駐外單位的監測並評估風險提供國人警示國家名單我覺得如果加拿大美國英國都已經跨黨派在做這樣的工作的話那是不是能夠請剛剛有回答蠻多的就是在做我想這是一個重要的外交工作\n\n05:20.080 --> 05:46.516\n因為不能夠只限縮在中華民國我們自己的努力有這麼多國家在努力是不是可以協助我們法務國安就是說相關的建立跨國互助機制把這幾項工作還有法務部我們跟加拿大英國美國相比我們是不是有更要完善的部分能夠一起有一個跨部會的協調會議完善這幾項工作不知道部長還有幾位可以同意嗎\n\n05:47.536 --> 05:59.403\n報告委員我們會跟入委會邀集相關的部會單位來協調怎麼樣分工合作好那個次長司法我知道你們也有在做一些跨國的努力了可以嗎\n\n06:00.407 --> 06:18.935\n好我們會來演繹會跟外交部跟陸委會一起好那那個國安的副局長陳副局長可以嗎我們也會跟外交部一起來努力好謝謝那陸委會我想這是兩邊兩者要合作好那請問部長可以多久內我覺得不只是跨部會還需要立法院一起加油我們一起跨黨派\n\n06:19.796 --> 06:40.017\n王定義委員會促成跨黨派一起努力今天這個我想報告是一個很好的開始那我們要追上其他國家國會的跨黨派努力好嗎那部長請問多久內可以給本席跟外交國防委員會一個報告書面報告我們一般是兩個月給他們兩個月這樣兩個月可以嗎好可以好謝謝謝謝召委\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.39,"end":10.926,"text":"請陸委會副主委來 沈副主委委員好"},{"start":11.972,"end":29.833,"text":"陸委會副主委早安我想我們今天到這兒其實很多委員都是關心的跨境鎮壓的議題那剛剛我們也已經討論到其實他現在沈博洋委員是政治人物但是這一起事件我們看到的他不是單一的個案"},{"start":30.313,"end":53.866,"text":"因為我們除了政治人物像我們那個昭偉過去也被公告過那現在沈博洋這個是立案那其實我們的軍公教裡面軍已經據說也已經上榜了那公的話以司法體系的話檢察官的那只要執行國家的法令跟國安相關的那也可能上榜"},{"start":54.406,"end":74.644,"text":"那未來就是叫那這一次還有推動民防的公民團體也被捲入所以真的是讓大家覺得不只是言論自由那工作權人身安全都受到威脅那我想講的是要感謝昭偉今天我們國會有這個報告"},{"start":76.645,"end":99.384,"text":"因為別的國會早就在關注這個問題那今年七月我受邀參加美國國會跨黨派議員提出的跨國鎮壓政策法案草案的聽證會那很榮幸做一個台灣國會議員在那裡分享就是我們的國家的經驗我當時舉的是我們蕭美琴準總統"},{"start":100.565,"end":118.921,"text":"還有沈博洋在網路上受到的中國網軍的各種攻擊其實跨國鎮壓已經發生當然不是只有美國國會他是在準備立法關注他們的而且看到的都是中共加拿大"},{"start":119.401,"end":138.074,"text":"去年就通過反外國干預法他們的國會明確把外國勢力的騷擾恐惡等行為視為刑事犯罪而且要求該國建立外國影響力註冊當然我們也知道很多主要是針對中共或中國英國的國會"},{"start":139.415,"end":162.986,"text":"今年也舉辦了公聽會聽證會他除了跨黨派的聽證會之外英國國會完成完整調查要求政府制定跨國鎮壓的明確定義建立受害者通報機制完善數據收集監測機制建立跨國互助機制我現在是想問那個副主委"},{"start":164.306,"end":188.612,"text":"今天外交部的報告也有講到自由之家的一些統計就是過去10年1,219件跨國鎮壓那發動的主要來自中國中共的佔22%算是最大國所以台灣當然現在它過去可能是針對譬如說瑞典籍的香港人等等或者是在美國籍的華人現在針對的是我們中華民國的國民"},{"start":191.213,"end":203.203,"text":"以自由之家的因應做法說最好的做法是要承認威脅提升執法認知提供主動保護您覺得我們台灣在這三方面做得如何"},{"start":204.065,"end":231.339,"text":"非常謝謝委員您提問非常多因為目前看起來好像只有民進黨籍的特別關切這個問題是非常謝謝委員那我也想舉一個例子來講譬如說中共他也想要利用2758號決議文來打壓台灣在國際上的生活空間我之所以舉這個例子是因為我們確實有看到很多的國家有注意到這些事情那麼這個跨境鎮壓剛剛您所提到的這些例子都非常棒但是我們看到2758號舉這個例子來講我們也非常希望台灣自己本身的國會也可以提出一個譴責"},{"start":232.419,"end":246.792,"text":"所以包含像這次省委員的案子如果說我們台灣能夠不分黨派一致的來表達對於中共這個行為的不滿意的話那麼將會達到一定的這樣的團結跟嚇阻作用所以我們也非常希望這個議題可以再謝謝喔 是那我也希望喔 如您講的我們跨黨派提出譴責那我也希望比照英國國會喔如果我們跨黨派沒有譴責的話行政部門是不是能夠更主動的保護喔"},{"start":256.3,"end":274.539,"text":"那是不是給我20秒就是那個外交部長林部長還有我們的國安的陳副局長跟黃市長因為我希望就是說我們比照英國國會跨黨陸委會主委您也先留步一下最後一頁是說今天非常多的事情"},{"start":275.28,"end":299.526,"text":"我們如果以英國國會的標準來講的話我想前兩項部分跨境鎮壓明確定受害者通報機制這應該可以是陸委會做的完善數據蒐集和監測機制是不是國安單位那後面三個因為這都是涉及到我們海外公民國人在海外的安全建立跨國互助機制我看外交部的報告寫得很好都有在做或準備做"},{"start":300.186,"end":319.6,"text":"還有協助駐外單位的監測並評估風險提供國人警示國家名單我覺得如果加拿大 美國 英國都已經跨黨派在做這樣的工作的話那是不是能夠請剛剛有回答蠻多的就是在做我想這是一個重要的外交工作"},{"start":320.08,"end":346.516,"text":"因為不能夠只限縮在中華民國我們自己的努力有這麼多國家在努力是不是可以協助我們法務國安就是說相關的建立跨國互助機制把這幾項工作還有法務部我們跟加拿大 英國 美國相比我們是不是有更要完善的部分能夠一起有一個跨部會的協調會議完善這幾項工作不知道部長還有幾位可以同意嗎"},{"start":347.536,"end":359.403,"text":"報告委員 我們會跟入委會邀集相關的部會單位來協調怎麼樣分工合作好 那個次長司法我知道你們也有在做一些跨國的努力了可以嗎"},{"start":360.407,"end":378.935,"text":"好 我們會來演繹 會跟外交部跟陸委會一起好 那那個國安的副局長 陳副局長可以嗎我們也會跟外交部一起來努力好 謝謝 那陸委會我想這是兩邊 兩者要合作好 那請問部長可以多久內我覺得不只是跨部會 還需要立法院一起加油我們一起跨黨派"},{"start":379.796,"end":400.017,"text":"王定義委員會促成跨黨派一起努力今天這個我想報告是一個很好的開始那我們要追上其他國家 國會的跨黨派努力好嗎那部長請問多久內可以給本席跟外交國防委員會一個報告書面報告我們一般是兩個月給他們兩個月 這樣兩個月可以嗎好 可以好 謝謝 謝謝召委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":535,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時27分）謝謝召委，先請陸委會副主委。"],["主席：來，沈副主委。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：委員好。"],["范委員雲：陸委會副主委早安。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：早。"],["范委員雲：今天其實有很多委員都是關心跨境鎮壓的議題，剛剛我們已經討論到，其實現在沈伯洋委員是政治人物，但是我們看到這一起事件並不是單一的個案，因為除了政治人物，像我們召委在過去也被公告過，那現在沈伯洋是立案，其實在我們的軍公教裡面，軍也已經上榜了，那公的方面，以司法體系來講的話，檢察官只要執行國家的法令、跟國安相關的，也可能會上榜，未來就是教。這一次還有推動民防的公民團體也被捲入，所以真的讓大家覺得不只是言論自由，工作權、人身安全都受到威脅。我想要感謝召委，今天在我們國會排了這個報告，因為別的國會早就在關注這個問題，今年7月我受邀參加美國國會跨黨派議員所提「跨國鎮壓政策法案」草案的聽證會，很榮幸作為一個台灣國會議員在那裡分享我們國家的經驗，我當時舉的是蕭美琴副總統還有沈伯洋在網路上受到中國網軍的各種攻擊。其實跨國鎮壓已經發生，當然不是只有美國國會關注，他們是在準備立法，而且看到的都是中共。加拿大去年就通過反外國干預法，他們的國會明確地把外國勢力的騷擾、恐嚇等行為視為刑事犯罪，而且要求該國建立外國影響力註冊，當然我們也知道，這個很多主要是針對中共或中國；英國的國會今年也舉辦了公聽會、聽證會，除了跨黨派的聽證會之外，英國國會也完成完整調查，要求政府制定跨國鎮壓的明確定義，建立受害者通報機制，完善數據蒐集和監測機制，建立跨國互助機制。","我現在想問副主委，今天外交部的報告也有講到自由之家的一些統計，也就是過去10年有1,219件跨國鎮壓，主要來自中國、中共發動的占22%，算是最大國，所以台灣當然現在……它過去可能是針對，譬如說瑞典籍的香港人等等，或是美國籍的華人，現在針對的是我們中華民國的國民。以自由之家的因應作法說，最好的作法是承認威脅、提升執法認知、提供主動保護。您覺得我們台灣在這三方面做得如何？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：非常謝謝委員提供這樣多……"],["范委員雲：目前看起來好像只有民進黨籍的特別關切這個問題。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：是，非常謝謝委員。我想舉一個例子來講，譬如中共也想利用2758號決議文來打壓台灣在國際上的生活空間，我之所以舉這個例子，是因為我們確實有看到很多國家有注意到這些事情。","有關這個跨境鎮壓，剛剛您所提到的這些例子都非常棒，但是我們看到2758號……我舉這個例子來講，我們也非常希望台灣自己本身的國會也可以提出譴責，包含這次沈委員的案子，如果台灣能夠不分黨派，一致地表達對中共這個行為不滿意的話，這將會達到一定的團結跟嚇阻作用，所以我們也非常希望這個議題可以再……"],["范委員雲：謝謝，我也希望能如你想的，我們能跨黨派提出譴責，也希望能比照英國國會，如果我們跨黨派沒有譴責的話，行政部門是不是能更主動地保護？","是不是能再給我20秒？有請外交部林部長，還有國安局的陳副局長跟黃次長。我希望我們能比照英國國會跨黨派……陸委會主委也請你先留步一下。","最後一頁是說，今天有非常多的事情，我們如果以英國國會的標準來講的話，我想有關前兩項的部分，跨境鎮壓要明確定義，以及建立受害者通報機制，這應該是陸委會可以做的。完善數據蒐集和監測機制是不是國安單位……後面那3個因為都涉及到公民、國人在海外的安全，在建立跨國互助機制方面，我看外交部的報告寫得很好，都有在做或準備做，還有協助駐外單位監測並評估風險，提供國人警示國家名單。我覺得如果加拿大、美國、英國都已經跨黨派在做這樣的工作的話，是不是能夠請剛剛有回答滿多的就是在做……","我想這是一個重要的外交工作，因為不能夠只限縮在中華民國我們自己的努力。有這麼多國家在努力，是不是可以協助我們法務、國安等相關單位建立跨國互助機制，把這幾項工作……跟加拿大、英國、美國相比，我們是不是有更要完善的部分，能夠一起有一個跨部會的協調會議，完善這幾項工作？不知道部長還有幾位可以同意嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，我們會跟陸委會邀集相關的部會、單位協調怎麼樣分工合作。"],["范委員雲：好。次長，我知道司法也有在做一些跨國的努力，可以嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：好，我們來研議，會跟外交部、陸委會……"],["范委員雲：要跟外交部一起。那國安的陳副局長，可以嗎？"],["陳副局長松吉：我們也會跟外交部一起努力。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝。陸委會，我想兩邊、兩者要合作。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：絕對，當然。"],["范委員雲：請問部長可以多久……"],["沈副主任委員有忠：我覺得不只是跨部會，還需要立法院一起加油，我們一起跨黨派。"],["范委員雲：我們立法院王定宇委員會促成跨黨派一起努力，今天的這個報告我想是一個很好的開始，我們要追上其他國家國會對跨黨派的努力，好嗎？部長，請問多久內可以給本席跟外交國防委員會一個書面報告？"],["主席：我們一般是兩個月給……"],["范委員雲：兩個月，這樣可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：好，可以。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝，謝謝召委。"],["主席：我們是兩週內還是兩個月？更正：是兩週內，讓你更高興一點。"],["范委員雲：沒關係，一個月就好。"],["主席：好，沒關係，另外約定的話就從你們的約定。今天因為詢問法務部的人比較少，本席希望法務部就長臂管轄在境內附和的，我剛才聽到你們報告有講到跟蹤、騷擾，但如果是在網路上，水軍公司這種組織化的去進行附和，遂行中共意旨的，法律上的責任是什麼，我們也希望在後續的報告上可以看到法務部更完整的報告。","接下來進行詢答委員林憶君委員，林憶君委員、林憶君委員不在。","接下來進行詢答委員邱志偉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","馬文君","賴士葆","范雲","邱志偉","陳永康","林憶君","黃捷","黃仁","牛煦庭"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部、經濟部、大陸委員會報告「我國參與2025年度『亞太經濟合作（APEC）經濟領\n袖會議』的任務及目標」，並備質詢；二、邀請國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會、法務部、法\n務部調查局報告「中共對台進行長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓及我國相關應處」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00010"}}}