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\"start\": 621.181, \"end\": 621.561, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 621.561, \"end\": 621.701, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 621.701, \"end\": 621.841, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 621.841, \"end\": 622.002, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 622.002, \"end\": 622.022, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 622.703, \"end\": 622.723, \"score\": 0.485}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:02,592\n好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請觀光署陳署長觀光署觀光署陳署長請\n\n2\n00:00:14,833 --> 00:00:30,987\n署長辛苦了這個台灣的觀光這個我想你從業界來感受應該非常深刻從數據上來講當然今天的專案報告看起來好像一切都是往好的方向走但是如果我們細究一下交通部觀光署的觀光統計資料庫裡面你看到的是\n\n3\n00:00:32,328 --> 00:00:57,262\n來台旅客有分為業務觀光跟其他三種不同的目的嘛那在今年跟去年的相比看起來就以比例來講的話今年來講來辦理業務的就來商務客等等的業務需求的比例下降的觀光的比例也是下降的是其他的比例上升的那到底其他是包含什麼組長可以跟大家說明一下到底其他包含哪些東西叫其他嗎\n\n4\n00:01:00,615 --> 00:01:12,579\n教學醫療探親教學醫療探親還有像宗教的部分也會工作算不算工作工作他不會算在我們的這個裡面工作算嗎請同事補充嗎因為統計這個資料的來\n\n5\n00:01:30,468 --> 00:01:43,482\n7號組如果是像參加像那個工作如果像賣死這種產業就是會展這些的部分啊算是在商務哈算是算算在我們的這個觀光旅客謝謝來統計資料理想請問移工算哪一種來台的部分算業務\n\n6\n00:01:52,816 --> 00:02:14,837\n算业务你看一下我们这个按照细分东南亚旅客在细分的话这个所谓来观光的比例以越南跟印尼因为我不确定你们现在讲的是算业务但是如果按照各东南亚国家来台湾的比例细分下去你看越南印尼菲律宾泰国马来西亚\n\n7\n00:02:15,851 --> 00:02:45,342\n越南印尼來觀光的比例大概佔了兩成三到兩成六其他的比例高達百分之六十五以上所以其他的比例是高於觀光的那我國我們就我們體感所見的確確近年來來自馬來西亞來自菲律賓來泰國的觀光客確實是比較多一點所以在你們的數據上看得出來也確實觀光比例比其他的比例來得高所以我再跟你確認一下你們那個其他比例是\n\n8\n00:02:47,130 --> 00:03:05,778\n只有什麼教育這種這種醫療不包含我們來我們來台灣的教育醫療的比例有這麼高嗎跟委員報告同仁剛剛表示是說會用到其他部分是他的選項如果是複選以上比如說他來的來這次的目的地是有兩項以上選擇就會納入其他\n\n9\n00:03:07,079 --> 00:03:24,525\n因為這個東西為什麼提這個問題就報案署長我現在在問的時候你們可能一時間也沒辦法回應我那就會產生一個問題是我們到底來台的觀光客來台灣這些人他到底來做什麼的如果連觀光署在統計數據上呈現出來之後你們都沒辦法很直接直觀的告訴我們\n\n10\n00:03:25,205 --> 00:03:52,437\n那對我來講或對觀光署來講會覺得那是不是現在的很多政策方向無法對症下藥所以我是第一個為什麼先放數據我想要就教說到底這些數據代表了什麼意思這個數據的下降跟上升觀光署要提出什麼對策比如說觀光是下降其他比例上升那就剛剛提到了再細分下去包含越南印尼的所謂其他比例上升的原因是什麼這個是你們有去研究過的嗎他的道理原因那不然你說你跟我說\n\n11\n00:03:53,357 --> 00:04:19,069\n其他的比例以越南印尼為例越南印尼的其他比例遠遠的超過觀光比例它的原因是什麼這確實跟我們現在目前的就是外籍人力來台台灣的部分一定是有正相關的好那為什麼要提這都很正常我是要說我們大家誠實面對數字而已那因為如果你把所謂的外籍移工的比例算進來台旅客的話\n\n12\n00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:40,998\n但會有一個問題正常來講當然不是每個人都這樣就是說正常以我所理解的外籍移工他們生活模範一年可能至少回去一次到兩次所以他在你們的統計數據裡面他每年至少就多一次的人次的統計所以在這個情況之下我們的數據會失真因為台灣現在85萬的外籍移工合法的還不管那些逃逸的\n\n13\n00:04:41,798 --> 00:05:09,991\n就光是合法的外移工就是85萬人那85萬人每一年來回一次就會計入你們的所謂的來台旅客的這個數量那當然看起來數據上我每年就多85萬人競爭家所以我在覺得在這個數字上我覺得未來你們在算旅客在統計整體數字的時候應該切開來處理真正的到底屬於觀光屬於業務我是來台灣觀光的比例到底多少我是來台灣工作的比例那是另外一件事情因為這些人\n\n14\n00:05:10,911 --> 00:05:37,720\n來台灣之後他可能他進入不是所謂觀光的消費市場他進入是其他的一般的民生消費他不是在做觀光的事業嗎署長好跟委員報告就是說我覺得他所有的數據都沒有絕對的精準但是有相對的精準相對的可參考性如果統計方式從以前到現在就是這個樣子所以他還是代表了一種趨勢跟一種現狀這是第一種第二種\n\n15\n00:05:39,881 --> 00:05:57,043\n其實縱使是移工啦移工他來台灣可能一待一待三個月像我們過去也推過Longstay對於觀光客來到台灣的Longstay這些他在台灣停留他還是會在台灣產生消費能力經濟力所以這點上我認為他還是對台灣有幫助的\n\n16\n00:05:57,423 --> 00:06:21,429\n好沒有署長我沒有否認他對台灣經濟有幫助剛才提到但是來台的目的不一樣那跟你觀光署的業務我認為是不同的不同的這個不同的事情啦他來台灣的消費他來台灣可能要在台灣待個三年到三個月到一年等等不管他短遷長遷他進入的是整個台灣內區市場的消費那這個跟觀光本身未必是有直接相關這我覺得在\n\n17\n00:06:22,069 --> 00:06:47,149\n政策上面我們要吸引比如說最近推什麼吸引東南亞的旅客來台灣所以在比如說馬來西亞跟泰國我們可能做的就很成功在比例上看起來是這樣沒錯但是如果單看以東南亞為例那越南印尼它來的這個觀光比例相對就比較低嘛那比如說我們在西客的部分可能對越南印尼的這些旅客來沒有這麼高的吸引力所以我覺得這個數據上還是要把它講清楚那因為今天檢討的當然是說\n\n18\n00:06:49,352 --> 00:07:09,799\n我們立場當然要檢討說那我們要怎麼樣提升我們的數據當然你剛剛說過去這幾年都是這樣算的但是因為估計這幾年這樣算我們的觀光的這個數字或是我們觀光的這整個的業績就是沒有特別的提升所以我們才希望說在統計數據上能夠更明確讓我們更清楚的掌握到業務上的數據那再來還有一個問題就是說\n\n19\n00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:25,837\n不管是從剛剛的數據紀念你們官方提供的報告還是我們從其他商業網站上取得的數據就入境旅遊某種程度上它是整體是下降了它的一年的觀光人次在2019年是人數上的高峰那這兩年\n\n20\n00:07:26,978 --> 00:07:38,425\n來講還沒有回到那個時候的需求但是我國的旅宿業整體來講我們當然可能經濟特別還會怎麼樣旅宿業其實整體是增加疫情前只有1276812768家疫情後到現在為止到目前我們最新數據大約是15721家所以整體增加了23%那\n\n21\n00:07:47,251 --> 00:07:55,544\n總房間數增加1.5萬那這樣子會不會造成供需上面有些什麼問題還是說我們在品質的管控上觀光署有掌握到這條數據的呈現嗎\n\n22\n00:07:58,101 --> 00:08:19,682\n謝謝委員委員提的這個問題確實我們也看見了最主要增加最多的是民宿民宿大概就增加了大概20我記得2030%的這個數字那這件事情我是認為說其實全球都在疫情的時候台灣的國旅是不錯的所以當時的需求是高的\n\n23\n00:08:20,302 --> 00:08:44,166\n那但是疫情結束之後相對的大家都瘋出國了所以這塊現在目前看起來需求是下降所以看起來會覺得說是功過於求主站起來最後一分鐘這個下一張剛剛這個署長在報告說說我們現在推廣觀光很多時候是跟旅行社來合作但是我們也是取了一個數據現階段從這個我們從2019年所謂疫情之後\n\n24\n00:08:48,007 --> 00:09:15,502\n整個亞太地區他去出國觀光的這個方式從以前傳統來講大量使用旅行社2019年的時候全亞太地區大概百分之五十過五成的人他會使用所謂線下的方式找旅行社然後只有兩成的人他是透過網路訂購等等那OTA就是所謂像booking.comagoda或是chipadvisor之類這些網站他那時候就兩成五疫情前是這樣但是這幾年不斷的提升到了今年\n\n25\n00:09:16,807 --> 00:09:33,168\n為止到去年大概提到三成五三成六左右的這個比例是使用所謂的平台訂購票物或訂購他的這個旅程網路訂購的比例也快到三成那反而是傳統旅行社的模式他下降的降到四成以下\n\n26\n00:09:33,829 --> 00:09:52,225\n所以未來我想我們在推廣國際觀光的時候觀光署在思考這問題的這個方向不應該只限於旅行社應該去想辦法去跟這些平台業者合作推一些優惠也好或推一些這個套裝行程也好而不是只找旅行社我不知道署長這個方向上你們會往這方向調整嗎\n\n27\n00:09:53,161 --> 00:10:22,022\n有的我們16個駐外單位原則上都是有跟OTA當地的OTA平台合作然後我們在國內的部分我們也在上上禮拜才找所有的OTA平台一起來商量大家如何一起來努力把不管是國際旅客送進來或者是國內的國旅這塊希望大家都可以一起來為國旅打拚謝謝我想就是要隨著科技跟商業市場的變化我們觀光署要努力的迎合這個市場好不好\n\n28\n00:10:22,703 --> 00:10:22,723\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t2592\t好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請觀光署陳署長觀光署觀光署陳署長請\n14833\t30987\t署長辛苦了這個台灣的觀光這個我想你從業界來感受應該非常深刻從數據上來講當然今天的專案報告看起來好像一切都是往好的方向走但是如果我們細究一下交通部觀光署的觀光統計資料庫裡面你看到的是\n32328\t57262\t來台旅客有分為業務觀光跟其他三種不同的目的嘛那在今年跟去年的相比看起來就以比例來講的話今年來講來辦理業務的就來商務客等等的業務需求的比例下降的觀光的比例也是下降的是其他的比例上升的那到底其他是包含什麼組長可以跟大家說明一下到底其他包含哪些東西叫其他嗎\n60615\t72579\t教學醫療探親教學醫療探親還有像宗教的部分也會 工作算不算工作工作他不會算在我們的這個裡面工作算嗎請同事補充嗎因為統計這個資料的來\n90468\t103482\t7號組如果是像參加像那個工作如果像賣死這種產業就是會展這些的部分啊算是在商務哈算是算算在我們的這個觀光旅客謝謝來統計資料理想請問移工算哪一種來台的部分算業務\n112816\t134837\t算业务你看一下我们这个按照细分东南亚旅客在细分的话这个所谓来观光的比例以越南跟印尼因为我不确定你们现在讲的是算业务但是如果按照各东南亚国家来台湾的比例细分下去你看越南印尼菲律宾泰国马来西亚\n135851\t165342\t越南印尼來觀光的比例大概佔了兩成三到兩成六其他的比例高達百分之六十五以上所以其他的比例是高於觀光的那我國我們就我們體感所見的確確近年來來自馬來西亞來自菲律賓來泰國的觀光客確實是比較多一點所以在你們的數據上看得出來也確實觀光比例比其他的比例來得高所以我再跟你確認一下你們那個其他比例是\n167130\t185778\t只有什麼教育這種這種醫療不包含我們來我們來台灣的教育醫療的比例有這麼高嗎跟委員報告同仁剛剛表示是說會用到其他部分是他的選項如果是複選以上比如說他來的來這次的目的地是有兩項以上選擇就會納入其他\n187079\t204525\t因為這個東西為什麼提這個問題就報案署長我現在在問的時候你們可能一時間也沒辦法回應我那就會產生一個問題是我們到底來台的觀光客來台灣這些人他到底來做什麼的如果連觀光署在統計數據上呈現出來之後你們都沒辦法很直接直觀的告訴我們\n205205\t232437\t那對我來講或對觀光署來講會覺得那是不是現在的很多政策方向無法對症下藥所以我是第一個為什麼先放數據我想要就教說到底這些數據代表了什麼意思這個數據的下降跟上升觀光署要提出什麼對策比如說觀光是下降其他比例上升那就剛剛提到了再細分下去包含越南印尼的所謂其他比例上升的原因是什麼這個是你們有去研究過的嗎他的道理原因那不然你說你跟我說\n233357\t259069\t其他的比例以越南印尼為例越南印尼的其他比例遠遠的超過觀光比例它的原因是什麼這確實跟我們現在目前的就是外籍人力來台台灣的部分一定是有正相關的好那為什麼要提這都很正常我是要說我們大家誠實面對數字而已那因為如果你把所謂的外籍移工的比例算進來台旅客的話\n259969\t280998\t但會有一個問題正常來講當然不是每個人都這樣就是說正常以我所理解的外籍移工他們生活模範一年可能至少回去一次到兩次所以他在你們的統計數據裡面他每年至少就多一次的人次的統計所以在這個情況之下我們的數據會失真因為台灣現在85萬的外籍移工合法的還不管那些逃逸的\n281798\t309991\t就光是合法的外移工就是85萬人那85萬人每一年來回一次就會計入你們的所謂的來台旅客的這個數量那當然看起來數據上我每年就多85萬人競爭家所以我在覺得在這個數字上我覺得未來你們在算旅客在統計整體數字的時候應該切開來處理真正的到底屬於觀光屬於業務我是來台灣觀光的比例到底多少我是來台灣工作的比例那是另外一件事情因為這些人\n310911\t337720\t來台灣之後他可能他進入不是所謂觀光的消費市場他進入是其他的一般的民生消費他不是在做觀光的事業嗎署長好跟委員報告就是說我覺得他所有的數據都沒有絕對的精準但是有相對的精準相對的可參考性如果統計方式從以前到現在就是這個樣子所以他還是代表了一種趨勢跟一種現狀這是第一種第二種\n339881\t357043\t其實縱使是移工啦移工他來台灣可能一待一待三個月像我們過去也推過Long stay對於觀光客來到台灣的Long stay這些他在台灣停留他還是會在台灣產生消費能力 經濟力所以這點上我認為他還是對台灣有幫助的\n357423\t381429\t好沒有署長我沒有否認他對台灣經濟有幫助剛才提到但是來台的目的不一樣那跟你觀光署的業務我認為是不同的不同的這個不同的事情啦他來台灣的消費他來台灣可能要在台灣待個三年到三個月到一年等等不管他短遷長遷他進入的是整個台灣內區市場的消費那這個跟觀光本身未必是有直接相關這我覺得在\n382069\t407149\t政策上面我們要吸引比如說最近推什麼吸引東南亞的旅客來台灣所以在比如說馬來西亞跟泰國我們可能做的就很成功在比例上看起來是這樣沒錯但是如果單看以東南亞為例那越南印尼它來的這個觀光比例相對就比較低嘛那比如說我們在西客的部分可能對越南印尼的這些旅客來沒有這麼高的吸引力所以我覺得這個數據上還是要把它講清楚那因為今天檢討的當然是說\n409352\t429799\t我們立場當然要檢討說那我們要怎麼樣提升我們的數據當然你剛剛說過去這幾年都是這樣算的但是因為估計這幾年這樣算我們的觀光的這個數字或是我們觀光的這整個的業績就是沒有特別的提升所以我們才希望說在統計數據上能夠更明確讓我們更清楚的掌握到業務上的數據那再來還有一個問題就是說\n431320\t445837\t不管是從剛剛的數據紀念你們官方提供的報告還是我們從其他商業網站上取得的數據就入境旅遊某種程度上它是整體是下降了它的一年的觀光人次在2019年是人數上的高峰那這兩年\n446978\t458425\t來講還沒有回到那個時候的需求但是我國的旅宿業整體來講我們當然可能經濟特別還會怎麼樣旅宿業其實整體是增加疫情前只有1276812768家疫情後到現在為止到目前我們最新數據大約是15721家所以整體增加了23%那\n467251\t475544\t總房間數增加1.5萬那這樣子會不會造成供需上面有些什麼問題還是說我們在品質的管控上觀光署有掌握到這條數據的呈現嗎\n478101\t499682\t謝謝委員 委員提的這個問題確實我們也看見了最主要 增加最多的是民宿民宿大概就增加了大概20我記得20 30%的這個數字那這件事情我是認為說其實全球都在疫情的時候台灣的國旅是不錯的所以當時的需求是高的\n500302\t524166\t那但是疫情結束之後相對的大家都瘋出國了所以這塊現在目前看起來需求是下降所以看起來會覺得說是功過於求主站起來最後一分鐘這個下一張剛剛這個署長在報告說說我們現在推廣觀光很多時候是跟旅行社來合作但是我們也是取了一個數據現階段從這個我們從2019年所謂疫情之後\n528007\t555502\t整個亞太地區他去出國觀光的這個方式從以前傳統來講大量使用旅行社2019年的時候全亞太地區大概百分之五十過五成的人他會使用所謂線下的方式找旅行社然後只有兩成的人他是透過網路訂購等等那OTA就是所謂像booking.comagoda或是chipadvisor之類這些網站他那時候就兩成五疫情前是這樣但是這幾年不斷的提升到了今年\n556807\t573168\t為止到去年大概提到三成五三成六左右的這個比例是使用所謂的平台訂購票物或訂購他的這個旅程網路訂購的比例也快到三成那反而是傳統旅行社的模式他下降的降到四成以下\n573829\t592225\t所以未來我想我們在推廣國際觀光的時候觀光署在思考這問題的這個方向不應該只限於旅行社應該去想辦法去跟這些平台業者合作推一些優惠也好或推一些這個套裝行程也好而不是只找旅行社我不知道署長這個方向上你們會往這方向調整嗎\n593161\t622022\t有的我們16個駐外單位原則上都是有跟OTA當地的OTA平台合作然後我們在國內的部分我們也在上上禮拜才找所有的OTA平台一起來商量大家如何一起來努力把不管是國際旅客送進來或者是國內的國旅這塊希望大家都可以一起來為國旅打拚謝謝我想就是要隨著科技跟商業市場的變化我們觀光署要努力的迎合這個市場好不好\n622703\t622723\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請觀光署陳署長觀光署觀光署陳署長請\n署長辛苦了這個台灣的觀光這個我想你從業界來感受應該非常深刻從數據上來講當然今天的專案報告看起來好像一切都是往好的方向走但是如果我們細究一下交通部觀光署的觀光統計資料庫裡面你看到的是\n來台旅客有分為業務觀光跟其他三種不同的目的嘛那在今年跟去年的相比看起來就以比例來講的話今年來講來辦理業務的就來商務客等等的業務需求的比例下降的觀光的比例也是下降的是其他的比例上升的那到底其他是包含什麼組長可以跟大家說明一下到底其他包含哪些東西叫其他嗎\n教學醫療探親教學醫療探親還有像宗教的部分也會 工作算不算工作工作他不會算在我們的這個裡面工作算嗎請同事補充嗎因為統計這個資料的來\n7號組如果是像參加像那個工作如果像賣死這種產業就是會展這些的部分啊算是在商務哈算是算算在我們的這個觀光旅客謝謝來統計資料理想請問移工算哪一種來台的部分算業務\n算业务你看一下我们这个按照细分东南亚旅客在细分的话这个所谓来观光的比例以越南跟印尼因为我不确定你们现在讲的是算业务但是如果按照各东南亚国家来台湾的比例细分下去你看越南印尼菲律宾泰国马来西亚\n越南印尼來觀光的比例大概佔了兩成三到兩成六其他的比例高達百分之六十五以上所以其他的比例是高於觀光的那我國我們就我們體感所見的確確近年來來自馬來西亞來自菲律賓來泰國的觀光客確實是比較多一點所以在你們的數據上看得出來也確實觀光比例比其他的比例來得高所以我再跟你確認一下你們那個其他比例是\n只有什麼教育這種這種醫療不包含我們來我們來台灣的教育醫療的比例有這麼高嗎跟委員報告同仁剛剛表示是說會用到其他部分是他的選項如果是複選以上比如說他來的來這次的目的地是有兩項以上選擇就會納入其他\n因為這個東西為什麼提這個問題就報案署長我現在在問的時候你們可能一時間也沒辦法回應我那就會產生一個問題是我們到底來台的觀光客來台灣這些人他到底來做什麼的如果連觀光署在統計數據上呈現出來之後你們都沒辦法很直接直觀的告訴我們\n那對我來講或對觀光署來講會覺得那是不是現在的很多政策方向無法對症下藥所以我是第一個為什麼先放數據我想要就教說到底這些數據代表了什麼意思這個數據的下降跟上升觀光署要提出什麼對策比如說觀光是下降其他比例上升那就剛剛提到了再細分下去包含越南印尼的所謂其他比例上升的原因是什麼這個是你們有去研究過的嗎他的道理原因那不然你說你跟我說\n其他的比例以越南印尼為例越南印尼的其他比例遠遠的超過觀光比例它的原因是什麼這確實跟我們現在目前的就是外籍人力來台台灣的部分一定是有正相關的好那為什麼要提這都很正常我是要說我們大家誠實面對數字而已那因為如果你把所謂的外籍移工的比例算進來台旅客的話\n但會有一個問題正常來講當然不是每個人都這樣就是說正常以我所理解的外籍移工他們生活模範一年可能至少回去一次到兩次所以他在你們的統計數據裡面他每年至少就多一次的人次的統計所以在這個情況之下我們的數據會失真因為台灣現在85萬的外籍移工合法的還不管那些逃逸的\n就光是合法的外移工就是85萬人那85萬人每一年來回一次就會計入你們的所謂的來台旅客的這個數量那當然看起來數據上我每年就多85萬人競爭家所以我在覺得在這個數字上我覺得未來你們在算旅客在統計整體數字的時候應該切開來處理真正的到底屬於觀光屬於業務我是來台灣觀光的比例到底多少我是來台灣工作的比例那是另外一件事情因為這些人\n來台灣之後他可能他進入不是所謂觀光的消費市場他進入是其他的一般的民生消費他不是在做觀光的事業嗎署長好跟委員報告就是說我覺得他所有的數據都沒有絕對的精準但是有相對的精準相對的可參考性如果統計方式從以前到現在就是這個樣子所以他還是代表了一種趨勢跟一種現狀這是第一種第二種\n其實縱使是移工啦移工他來台灣可能一待一待三個月像我們過去也推過Long stay對於觀光客來到台灣的Long stay這些他在台灣停留他還是會在台灣產生消費能力 經濟力所以這點上我認為他還是對台灣有幫助的\n好沒有署長我沒有否認他對台灣經濟有幫助剛才提到但是來台的目的不一樣那跟你觀光署的業務我認為是不同的不同的這個不同的事情啦他來台灣的消費他來台灣可能要在台灣待個三年到三個月到一年等等不管他短遷長遷他進入的是整個台灣內區市場的消費那這個跟觀光本身未必是有直接相關這我覺得在\n政策上面我們要吸引比如說最近推什麼吸引東南亞的旅客來台灣所以在比如說馬來西亞跟泰國我們可能做的就很成功在比例上看起來是這樣沒錯但是如果單看以東南亞為例那越南印尼它來的這個觀光比例相對就比較低嘛那比如說我們在西客的部分可能對越南印尼的這些旅客來沒有這麼高的吸引力所以我覺得這個數據上還是要把它講清楚那因為今天檢討的當然是說\n我們立場當然要檢討說那我們要怎麼樣提升我們的數據當然你剛剛說過去這幾年都是這樣算的但是因為估計這幾年這樣算我們的觀光的這個數字或是我們觀光的這整個的業績就是沒有特別的提升所以我們才希望說在統計數據上能夠更明確讓我們更清楚的掌握到業務上的數據那再來還有一個問題就是說\n不管是從剛剛的數據紀念你們官方提供的報告還是我們從其他商業網站上取得的數據就入境旅遊某種程度上它是整體是下降了它的一年的觀光人次在2019年是人數上的高峰那這兩年\n來講還沒有回到那個時候的需求但是我國的旅宿業整體來講我們當然可能經濟特別還會怎麼樣旅宿業其實整體是增加疫情前只有1276812768家疫情後到現在為止到目前我們最新數據大約是15721家所以整體增加了23%那\n總房間數增加1.5萬那這樣子會不會造成供需上面有些什麼問題還是說我們在品質的管控上觀光署有掌握到這條數據的呈現嗎\n謝謝委員 委員提的這個問題確實我們也看見了最主要 增加最多的是民宿民宿大概就增加了大概20我記得20 30%的這個數字那這件事情我是認為說其實全球都在疫情的時候台灣的國旅是不錯的所以當時的需求是高的\n那但是疫情結束之後相對的大家都瘋出國了所以這塊現在目前看起來需求是下降所以看起來會覺得說是功過於求主站起來最後一分鐘這個下一張剛剛這個署長在報告說說我們現在推廣觀光很多時候是跟旅行社來合作但是我們也是取了一個數據現階段從這個我們從2019年所謂疫情之後\n整個亞太地區他去出國觀光的這個方式從以前傳統來講大量使用旅行社2019年的時候全亞太地區大概百分之五十過五成的人他會使用所謂線下的方式找旅行社然後只有兩成的人他是透過網路訂購等等那OTA就是所謂像booking.comagoda或是chipadvisor之類這些網站他那時候就兩成五疫情前是這樣但是這幾年不斷的提升到了今年\n為止到去年大概提到三成五三成六左右的這個比例是使用所謂的平台訂購票物或訂購他的這個旅程網路訂購的比例也快到三成那反而是傳統旅行社的模式他下降的降到四成以下\n所以未來我想我們在推廣國際觀光的時候觀光署在思考這問題的這個方向不應該只限於旅行社應該去想辦法去跟這些平台業者合作推一些優惠也好或推一些這個套裝行程也好而不是只找旅行社我不知道署長這個方向上你們會往這方向調整嗎\n有的我們16個駐外單位原則上都是有跟OTA當地的OTA平台合作然後我們在國內的部分我們也在上上禮拜才找所有的OTA平台一起來商量大家如何一起來努力把不管是國際旅客送進來或者是國內的國旅這塊希望大家都可以一起來為國旅打拚謝謝我想就是要隨著科技跟商業市場的變化我們觀光署要努力的迎合這個市場好不好\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:02.592\n好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請觀光署陳署長觀光署觀光署陳署長請\n\n00:14.833 --> 00:30.987\n署長辛苦了這個台灣的觀光這個我想你從業界來感受應該非常深刻從數據上來講當然今天的專案報告看起來好像一切都是往好的方向走但是如果我們細究一下交通部觀光署的觀光統計資料庫裡面你看到的是\n\n00:32.328 --> 00:57.262\n來台旅客有分為業務觀光跟其他三種不同的目的嘛那在今年跟去年的相比看起來就以比例來講的話今年來講來辦理業務的就來商務客等等的業務需求的比例下降的觀光的比例也是下降的是其他的比例上升的那到底其他是包含什麼組長可以跟大家說明一下到底其他包含哪些東西叫其他嗎\n\n01:00.615 --> 01:12.579\n教學醫療探親教學醫療探親還有像宗教的部分也會工作算不算工作工作他不會算在我們的這個裡面工作算嗎請同事補充嗎因為統計這個資料的來\n\n01:30.468 --> 01:43.482\n7號組如果是像參加像那個工作如果像賣死這種產業就是會展這些的部分啊算是在商務哈算是算算在我們的這個觀光旅客謝謝來統計資料理想請問移工算哪一種來台的部分算業務\n\n01:52.816 --> 02:14.837\n算业务你看一下我们这个按照细分东南亚旅客在细分的话这个所谓来观光的比例以越南跟印尼因为我不确定你们现在讲的是算业务但是如果按照各东南亚国家来台湾的比例细分下去你看越南印尼菲律宾泰国马来西亚\n\n02:15.851 --> 02:45.342\n越南印尼來觀光的比例大概佔了兩成三到兩成六其他的比例高達百分之六十五以上所以其他的比例是高於觀光的那我國我們就我們體感所見的確確近年來來自馬來西亞來自菲律賓來泰國的觀光客確實是比較多一點所以在你們的數據上看得出來也確實觀光比例比其他的比例來得高所以我再跟你確認一下你們那個其他比例是\n\n02:47.130 --> 03:05.778\n只有什麼教育這種這種醫療不包含我們來我們來台灣的教育醫療的比例有這麼高嗎跟委員報告同仁剛剛表示是說會用到其他部分是他的選項如果是複選以上比如說他來的來這次的目的地是有兩項以上選擇就會納入其他\n\n03:07.079 --> 03:24.525\n因為這個東西為什麼提這個問題就報案署長我現在在問的時候你們可能一時間也沒辦法回應我那就會產生一個問題是我們到底來台的觀光客來台灣這些人他到底來做什麼的如果連觀光署在統計數據上呈現出來之後你們都沒辦法很直接直觀的告訴我們\n\n03:25.205 --> 03:52.437\n那對我來講或對觀光署來講會覺得那是不是現在的很多政策方向無法對症下藥所以我是第一個為什麼先放數據我想要就教說到底這些數據代表了什麼意思這個數據的下降跟上升觀光署要提出什麼對策比如說觀光是下降其他比例上升那就剛剛提到了再細分下去包含越南印尼的所謂其他比例上升的原因是什麼這個是你們有去研究過的嗎他的道理原因那不然你說你跟我說\n\n03:53.357 --> 04:19.069\n其他的比例以越南印尼為例越南印尼的其他比例遠遠的超過觀光比例它的原因是什麼這確實跟我們現在目前的就是外籍人力來台台灣的部分一定是有正相關的好那為什麼要提這都很正常我是要說我們大家誠實面對數字而已那因為如果你把所謂的外籍移工的比例算進來台旅客的話\n\n04:19.969 --> 04:40.998\n但會有一個問題正常來講當然不是每個人都這樣就是說正常以我所理解的外籍移工他們生活模範一年可能至少回去一次到兩次所以他在你們的統計數據裡面他每年至少就多一次的人次的統計所以在這個情況之下我們的數據會失真因為台灣現在85萬的外籍移工合法的還不管那些逃逸的\n\n04:41.798 --> 05:09.991\n就光是合法的外移工就是85萬人那85萬人每一年來回一次就會計入你們的所謂的來台旅客的這個數量那當然看起來數據上我每年就多85萬人競爭家所以我在覺得在這個數字上我覺得未來你們在算旅客在統計整體數字的時候應該切開來處理真正的到底屬於觀光屬於業務我是來台灣觀光的比例到底多少我是來台灣工作的比例那是另外一件事情因為這些人\n\n05:10.911 --> 05:37.720\n來台灣之後他可能他進入不是所謂觀光的消費市場他進入是其他的一般的民生消費他不是在做觀光的事業嗎署長好跟委員報告就是說我覺得他所有的數據都沒有絕對的精準但是有相對的精準相對的可參考性如果統計方式從以前到現在就是這個樣子所以他還是代表了一種趨勢跟一種現狀這是第一種第二種\n\n05:39.881 --> 05:57.043\n其實縱使是移工啦移工他來台灣可能一待一待三個月像我們過去也推過Longstay對於觀光客來到台灣的Longstay這些他在台灣停留他還是會在台灣產生消費能力經濟力所以這點上我認為他還是對台灣有幫助的\n\n05:57.423 --> 06:21.429\n好沒有署長我沒有否認他對台灣經濟有幫助剛才提到但是來台的目的不一樣那跟你觀光署的業務我認為是不同的不同的這個不同的事情啦他來台灣的消費他來台灣可能要在台灣待個三年到三個月到一年等等不管他短遷長遷他進入的是整個台灣內區市場的消費那這個跟觀光本身未必是有直接相關這我覺得在\n\n06:22.069 --> 06:47.149\n政策上面我們要吸引比如說最近推什麼吸引東南亞的旅客來台灣所以在比如說馬來西亞跟泰國我們可能做的就很成功在比例上看起來是這樣沒錯但是如果單看以東南亞為例那越南印尼它來的這個觀光比例相對就比較低嘛那比如說我們在西客的部分可能對越南印尼的這些旅客來沒有這麼高的吸引力所以我覺得這個數據上還是要把它講清楚那因為今天檢討的當然是說\n\n06:49.352 --> 07:09.799\n我們立場當然要檢討說那我們要怎麼樣提升我們的數據當然你剛剛說過去這幾年都是這樣算的但是因為估計這幾年這樣算我們的觀光的這個數字或是我們觀光的這整個的業績就是沒有特別的提升所以我們才希望說在統計數據上能夠更明確讓我們更清楚的掌握到業務上的數據那再來還有一個問題就是說\n\n07:11.320 --> 07:25.837\n不管是從剛剛的數據紀念你們官方提供的報告還是我們從其他商業網站上取得的數據就入境旅遊某種程度上它是整體是下降了它的一年的觀光人次在2019年是人數上的高峰那這兩年\n\n07:26.978 --> 07:38.425\n來講還沒有回到那個時候的需求但是我國的旅宿業整體來講我們當然可能經濟特別還會怎麼樣旅宿業其實整體是增加疫情前只有1276812768家疫情後到現在為止到目前我們最新數據大約是15721家所以整體增加了23%那\n\n07:47.251 --> 07:55.544\n總房間數增加1.5萬那這樣子會不會造成供需上面有些什麼問題還是說我們在品質的管控上觀光署有掌握到這條數據的呈現嗎\n\n07:58.101 --> 08:19.682\n謝謝委員委員提的這個問題確實我們也看見了最主要增加最多的是民宿民宿大概就增加了大概20我記得2030%的這個數字那這件事情我是認為說其實全球都在疫情的時候台灣的國旅是不錯的所以當時的需求是高的\n\n08:20.302 --> 08:44.166\n那但是疫情結束之後相對的大家都瘋出國了所以這塊現在目前看起來需求是下降所以看起來會覺得說是功過於求主站起來最後一分鐘這個下一張剛剛這個署長在報告說說我們現在推廣觀光很多時候是跟旅行社來合作但是我們也是取了一個數據現階段從這個我們從2019年所謂疫情之後\n\n08:48.007 --> 09:15.502\n整個亞太地區他去出國觀光的這個方式從以前傳統來講大量使用旅行社2019年的時候全亞太地區大概百分之五十過五成的人他會使用所謂線下的方式找旅行社然後只有兩成的人他是透過網路訂購等等那OTA就是所謂像booking.comagoda或是chipadvisor之類這些網站他那時候就兩成五疫情前是這樣但是這幾年不斷的提升到了今年\n\n09:16.807 --> 09:33.168\n為止到去年大概提到三成五三成六左右的這個比例是使用所謂的平台訂購票物或訂購他的這個旅程網路訂購的比例也快到三成那反而是傳統旅行社的模式他下降的降到四成以下\n\n09:33.829 --> 09:52.225\n所以未來我想我們在推廣國際觀光的時候觀光署在思考這問題的這個方向不應該只限於旅行社應該去想辦法去跟這些平台業者合作推一些優惠也好或推一些這個套裝行程也好而不是只找旅行社我不知道署長這個方向上你們會往這方向調整嗎\n\n09:53.161 --> 10:22.022\n有的我們16個駐外單位原則上都是有跟OTA當地的OTA平台合作然後我們在國內的部分我們也在上上禮拜才找所有的OTA平台一起來商量大家如何一起來努力把不管是國際旅客送進來或者是國內的國旅這塊希望大家都可以一起來為國旅打拚謝謝我想就是要隨著科技跟商業市場的變化我們觀光署要努力的迎合這個市場好不好\n\n10:22.703 --> 10:22.723\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":2.592,"text":"好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請觀光署陳署長觀光署觀光署陳署長請"},{"start":14.833,"end":30.987,"text":"署長辛苦了這個台灣的觀光這個我想你從業界來感受應該非常深刻從數據上來講當然今天的專案報告看起來好像一切都是往好的方向走但是如果我們細究一下交通部觀光署的觀光統計資料庫裡面你看到的是"},{"start":32.328,"end":57.262,"text":"來台旅客有分為業務觀光跟其他三種不同的目的嘛那在今年跟去年的相比看起來就以比例來講的話今年來講來辦理業務的就來商務客等等的業務需求的比例下降的觀光的比例也是下降的是其他的比例上升的那到底其他是包含什麼組長可以跟大家說明一下到底其他包含哪些東西叫其他嗎"},{"start":60.615,"end":72.579,"text":"教學醫療探親教學醫療探親還有像宗教的部分也會 工作算不算工作工作他不會算在我們的這個裡面工作算嗎請同事補充嗎因為統計這個資料的來"},{"start":90.468,"end":103.482,"text":"7號組如果是像參加像那個工作如果像賣死這種產業就是會展這些的部分啊算是在商務哈算是算算在我們的這個觀光旅客謝謝來統計資料理想請問移工算哪一種來台的部分算業務"},{"start":112.816,"end":134.837,"text":"算业务你看一下我们这个按照细分东南亚旅客在细分的话这个所谓来观光的比例以越南跟印尼因为我不确定你们现在讲的是算业务但是如果按照各东南亚国家来台湾的比例细分下去你看越南印尼菲律宾泰国马来西亚"},{"start":135.851,"end":165.342,"text":"越南印尼來觀光的比例大概佔了兩成三到兩成六其他的比例高達百分之六十五以上所以其他的比例是高於觀光的那我國我們就我們體感所見的確確近年來來自馬來西亞來自菲律賓來泰國的觀光客確實是比較多一點所以在你們的數據上看得出來也確實觀光比例比其他的比例來得高所以我再跟你確認一下你們那個其他比例是"},{"start":167.13,"end":185.778,"text":"只有什麼教育這種這種醫療不包含我們來我們來台灣的教育醫療的比例有這麼高嗎跟委員報告同仁剛剛表示是說會用到其他部分是他的選項如果是複選以上比如說他來的來這次的目的地是有兩項以上選擇就會納入其他"},{"start":187.079,"end":204.525,"text":"因為這個東西為什麼提這個問題就報案署長我現在在問的時候你們可能一時間也沒辦法回應我那就會產生一個問題是我們到底來台的觀光客來台灣這些人他到底來做什麼的如果連觀光署在統計數據上呈現出來之後你們都沒辦法很直接直觀的告訴我們"},{"start":205.205,"end":232.437,"text":"那對我來講或對觀光署來講會覺得那是不是現在的很多政策方向無法對症下藥所以我是第一個為什麼先放數據我想要就教說到底這些數據代表了什麼意思這個數據的下降跟上升觀光署要提出什麼對策比如說觀光是下降其他比例上升那就剛剛提到了再細分下去包含越南印尼的所謂其他比例上升的原因是什麼這個是你們有去研究過的嗎他的道理原因那不然你說你跟我說"},{"start":233.357,"end":259.069,"text":"其他的比例以越南印尼為例越南印尼的其他比例遠遠的超過觀光比例它的原因是什麼這確實跟我們現在目前的就是外籍人力來台台灣的部分一定是有正相關的好那為什麼要提這都很正常我是要說我們大家誠實面對數字而已那因為如果你把所謂的外籍移工的比例算進來台旅客的話"},{"start":259.969,"end":280.998,"text":"但會有一個問題正常來講當然不是每個人都這樣就是說正常以我所理解的外籍移工他們生活模範一年可能至少回去一次到兩次所以他在你們的統計數據裡面他每年至少就多一次的人次的統計所以在這個情況之下我們的數據會失真因為台灣現在85萬的外籍移工合法的還不管那些逃逸的"},{"start":281.798,"end":309.991,"text":"就光是合法的外移工就是85萬人那85萬人每一年來回一次就會計入你們的所謂的來台旅客的這個數量那當然看起來數據上我每年就多85萬人競爭家所以我在覺得在這個數字上我覺得未來你們在算旅客在統計整體數字的時候應該切開來處理真正的到底屬於觀光屬於業務我是來台灣觀光的比例到底多少我是來台灣工作的比例那是另外一件事情因為這些人"},{"start":310.911,"end":337.72,"text":"來台灣之後他可能他進入不是所謂觀光的消費市場他進入是其他的一般的民生消費他不是在做觀光的事業嗎署長好跟委員報告就是說我覺得他所有的數據都沒有絕對的精準但是有相對的精準相對的可參考性如果統計方式從以前到現在就是這個樣子所以他還是代表了一種趨勢跟一種現狀這是第一種第二種"},{"start":339.881,"end":357.043,"text":"其實縱使是移工啦移工他來台灣可能一待一待三個月像我們過去也推過Long stay對於觀光客來到台灣的Long stay這些他在台灣停留他還是會在台灣產生消費能力 經濟力所以這點上我認為他還是對台灣有幫助的"},{"start":357.423,"end":381.429,"text":"好沒有署長我沒有否認他對台灣經濟有幫助剛才提到但是來台的目的不一樣那跟你觀光署的業務我認為是不同的不同的這個不同的事情啦他來台灣的消費他來台灣可能要在台灣待個三年到三個月到一年等等不管他短遷長遷他進入的是整個台灣內區市場的消費那這個跟觀光本身未必是有直接相關這我覺得在"},{"start":382.069,"end":407.149,"text":"政策上面我們要吸引比如說最近推什麼吸引東南亞的旅客來台灣所以在比如說馬來西亞跟泰國我們可能做的就很成功在比例上看起來是這樣沒錯但是如果單看以東南亞為例那越南印尼它來的這個觀光比例相對就比較低嘛那比如說我們在西客的部分可能對越南印尼的這些旅客來沒有這麼高的吸引力所以我覺得這個數據上還是要把它講清楚那因為今天檢討的當然是說"},{"start":409.352,"end":429.799,"text":"我們立場當然要檢討說那我們要怎麼樣提升我們的數據當然你剛剛說過去這幾年都是這樣算的但是因為估計這幾年這樣算我們的觀光的這個數字或是我們觀光的這整個的業績就是沒有特別的提升所以我們才希望說在統計數據上能夠更明確讓我們更清楚的掌握到業務上的數據那再來還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":431.32,"end":445.837,"text":"不管是從剛剛的數據紀念你們官方提供的報告還是我們從其他商業網站上取得的數據就入境旅遊某種程度上它是整體是下降了它的一年的觀光人次在2019年是人數上的高峰那這兩年"},{"start":446.978,"end":458.425,"text":"來講還沒有回到那個時候的需求但是我國的旅宿業整體來講我們當然可能經濟特別還會怎麼樣旅宿業其實整體是增加疫情前只有1276812768家疫情後到現在為止到目前我們最新數據大約是15721家所以整體增加了23%那"},{"start":467.251,"end":475.544,"text":"總房間數增加1.5萬那這樣子會不會造成供需上面有些什麼問題還是說我們在品質的管控上觀光署有掌握到這條數據的呈現嗎"},{"start":478.101,"end":499.682,"text":"謝謝委員 委員提的這個問題確實我們也看見了最主要 增加最多的是民宿民宿大概就增加了大概20我記得20 30%的這個數字那這件事情我是認為說其實全球都在疫情的時候台灣的國旅是不錯的所以當時的需求是高的"},{"start":500.302,"end":524.166,"text":"那但是疫情結束之後相對的大家都瘋出國了所以這塊現在目前看起來需求是下降所以看起來會覺得說是功過於求主站起來最後一分鐘這個下一張剛剛這個署長在報告說說我們現在推廣觀光很多時候是跟旅行社來合作但是我們也是取了一個數據現階段從這個我們從2019年所謂疫情之後"},{"start":528.007,"end":555.502,"text":"整個亞太地區他去出國觀光的這個方式從以前傳統來講大量使用旅行社2019年的時候全亞太地區大概百分之五十過五成的人他會使用所謂線下的方式找旅行社然後只有兩成的人他是透過網路訂購等等那OTA就是所謂像booking.comagoda或是chipadvisor之類這些網站他那時候就兩成五疫情前是這樣但是這幾年不斷的提升到了今年"},{"start":556.807,"end":573.168,"text":"為止到去年大概提到三成五三成六左右的這個比例是使用所謂的平台訂購票物或訂購他的這個旅程網路訂購的比例也快到三成那反而是傳統旅行社的模式他下降的降到四成以下"},{"start":573.829,"end":592.225,"text":"所以未來我想我們在推廣國際觀光的時候觀光署在思考這問題的這個方向不應該只限於旅行社應該去想辦法去跟這些平台業者合作推一些優惠也好或推一些這個套裝行程也好而不是只找旅行社我不知道署長這個方向上你們會往這方向調整嗎"},{"start":593.161,"end":622.022,"text":"有的我們16個駐外單位原則上都是有跟OTA當地的OTA平台合作然後我們在國內的部分我們也在上上禮拜才找所有的OTA平台一起來商量大家如何一起來努力把不管是國際旅客送進來或者是國內的國旅這塊希望大家都可以一起來為國旅打拚謝謝我想就是要隨著科技跟商業市場的變化我們觀光署要努力的迎合這個市場好不好"},{"start":622.703,"end":622.723,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":488,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時28分）謝謝主席。主席，我們一樣請觀光署陳署長。"],["主席：請觀光署陳署長。"],["黃委員健豪：署長辛苦了，對於臺灣的觀光，我想你從業界來，感受應該非常深刻。從數據上來講，當然從今天的專案報告看起來，好像一切都是往好的方向走，但是如果我們細究一下交通部觀光署的觀光統計資料庫，所看到的是，來臺旅客有分為業務、觀光及其他等3種不同的目的，從今年跟去年的相比看起來，就以比例來講的話，今年來辦理業務的，就是來臺商務客等業務需求的比例是下降的，觀光的比例也是下降的，但其他的比例是上升的，到底其他是包含什麼？署長可以跟大家說明一下嗎？到底其他包含哪些東西？"],["陳署長玉秀：教學、醫療、探親。"],["黃委員健豪：教學、醫療、探親……"],["陳署長玉秀：還有像宗教的部分也會有。"],["黃委員健豪：工作算不算？"],["陳署長玉秀：工作？工作不會算在我們這個裡面……"],["黃委員健豪：工作算嗎？移工？"],["陳署長玉秀：可以請同事補充嗎？因為統計這個資料的是企劃組。"],["吳組長潔萍：那個工作如果像MICE這種產業，就是會展這些，算在商務，會算在我們的觀光旅客統計資料裡，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：請問移工算哪一種？來臺的部分。"],["吳組長潔萍：算業務。"],["黃委員健豪：算業務？"],["吳組長潔萍：是。"],["黃委員健豪：你看一下我們這個資料，如果東南亞旅客再細分的話，來觀光的比例，以越南跟印尼來說，因為我不確定，你們現在講的是算業務，但是如果按照各東南亞國家來臺灣的比例細分下去看，越南、印尼、菲律賓、泰國、馬來西亞這幾個國家，越南、印尼來觀光的比例大概占了兩成三到兩成六，其他的比例高達65%以上，所以其他的比例是高於觀光的。我國就我們體感所見，近年來來自馬來西亞、菲律賓、泰國的觀光客確實是比較多一點，在你們的數據上看得出來，也確實觀光的比例比其他的比例來得高，所以我再跟你確認一下，你們那個其他比例是只有教育、醫療這種不包含？來臺灣的教育、醫療比例有這麼高嗎？"],["陳署長玉秀：跟委員報告，同仁剛剛表示，會用到其他的部分，是指它的選項如果是複選以上，比如他這次來的目的地是有兩項以上，就會納入其他。"],["黃委員健豪：為什麼我要提這個問題？包含署長，我現在在問的時候，你們可能一時之間也沒辦法回應我，那就會產生一個問題，就是來臺的觀光客、來臺灣的這些人到底是來做什麼的？如果連觀光署的統計數據呈現出來後，你們都沒辦法很直接、直觀地告訴我們，對我來講，或對觀光署來講，會覺得是不是現在很多的政策無法對症下藥。","所以我第一個為什麼要先放數據？我想要就教到底這些數據代表什麼意思？這個數據的下降跟上升，觀光署要提出什麼對策？比如說觀光是下降，其他比例上升，就是剛剛提到的再細分下去，包含越南、印尼的其他比例上升原因是什麼？這個你們有去研究過的嗎？到底它的原因是什麼？不然署長跟我說，其他的比例以越南、印尼為例，越南、印尼的其他比例遠遠超過觀光的比例，它的原因是什麼？"],["陳署長玉秀：這確實跟目前外籍人力來到臺灣的部分一定是正相關。"],["黃委員健豪：好，我為什麼要提？這都很正常，我只是希望大家誠實面對數字而已，因為如果你把外籍移工的比例算進來臺旅客會有一個問題。正常來講，當然不是每個人都這樣，就是以我所理解正常的外籍移工生活模式，他一年可能至少回去一次到兩次，所以他在你們的統計數據裡面，每年至少就會多一次人次。在這個情況之下，我們的數據會失真，因為臺灣現在有85萬的合法外籍移工，還不包括那些逃逸的，光是合法的移工就是85萬人，那85萬人每年來回一次，就會計入你們來臺旅客的數量。當然，看起來數據上每年就會多85萬人，淨增加，所以我才覺得未來你們在統計旅客整體數字的時候應該切開來處理，到底真正屬於觀光署業務的來臺觀光比例是多少，而來臺灣工作的比例那是另外一件事情，因為這些人來臺灣之後，他可能進入的不是觀光的消費市場，他是進入其他一般的民生消費，不是在觀光事業。"],["陳署長玉秀：跟委員報告，我覺得所有的數據都沒有絕對的精準，但是有相對的精準，相對的可參考性。如果統計方式從以前到現在就是這個樣子，它還是代表了一種趨勢跟現狀，這是第一種。","第二種，縱使是移工，移工來臺灣可能一待會待三個月，像我們過去也推過long stay，對於觀光客來到臺灣的long stay，這些旅客在臺灣停留，他還是會在臺灣產生消費能力、經濟力，所以就這一點我認為他對臺灣還是有幫助的。"],["黃委員健豪：好，署長，我沒有否認他對臺灣的經濟有幫助。剛才提到，但是他來臺的目的不一樣，跟你觀光署的業務，我認為是不同的事情，他來臺灣的消費，他來臺灣可能要待個3個月到1年等等，不管是短簽還長簽，進入的是整個臺灣內需市場的消費，這個跟觀光本身未必直接相關，但我覺得在政策上面，我們要能夠吸引。比如說最近在推吸引東南亞的旅客來臺灣，像馬來西亞跟泰國，我們可能做得就很成功，在比例上看起來是這樣沒錯，但是如果單以東南亞為例，越南、印尼來觀光的比例相對就比較低，表示我們在吸客的部分，可能對越南、印尼的這些旅客沒有這麼高的吸引力，所以我覺得數據上還是要把它講清楚，因為今天我們立場上是要檢討，看要怎麼樣提升我們的數據，當然你說過去這幾年都是這樣算的，但是過去這幾年我們觀光的數字或是整個觀光的業績沒有特別提升啊！所以我們才希望在統計數據上能更明確，讓我們更清楚地掌握到業務上的數據。","再來，還有一個問題，不管是從剛剛的數據，今年你們官方提供的報告，還是我們從其他商業網站上取得的數據，入境旅遊在某種程度上整體是下降的。歷年的觀光人次在2019年是人次上的高峰，以這兩年來講，雖然還沒有回到那個時候的需求，但是整體來講我國的旅宿業……當然，可能經濟特別好還是怎麼樣的，其實旅宿業整體是增加，疫情前只有1萬2,768家，疫情後到現在為止，我們最新數據大約是1萬5,721家，所以整體增加了23%，總房間數增加1.5萬，這樣子會不會造成供需上面有些什麼問題？還是說我們在品質的管控上，觀光署有掌握到這樣數據的呈現嗎？"],["陳署長玉秀：謝謝委員，委員提的這個問題確實我們也看見了，主要增加最多的是民宿，我記得民宿大概就增加了20%、30%這個數字。我是認為這件事情，其實全球都在疫情的時候，臺灣的國旅是不錯的，所以當時的需求是高的，但是疫情結束之後，相對的大家就瘋出國了，所以目前這塊看起來需求是下降，看起來會覺得是供過於求。"],["黃委員健豪：主席站起來了，最後1分鐘。","剛剛署長在報告說我們現在推廣觀光，很多時候是跟旅行社合作，但是我們也取得了一個數據，整個亞太地區出國觀光的方式，從以前傳統來講是大量使用旅行社；現階段、從2019年疫情之後，全亞太地區大概50%、過五成的人，他會使用所謂線下的方式找旅行社，只有兩成的人是透過網路訂購等等。那OTA就是像Booking.com、Agoda或是Tripadvisor之類這些網站，他們疫情前就到達兩成五，但是這幾年不斷在提升，到今年為止，去年跟今年大概已經提高到三成五、三成六左右的比例是使用所謂的平臺訂購票務或訂購旅程，網路訂購的比例快提高到三成，反而是傳統旅行社的模式，降到四成以下。所以未來我們在推廣國際觀光的時候，觀光署在思考這問題的方向，不應該只限於旅行社，應該想辦法去跟這些平臺業者合作，推一些優惠也好，或者推一些套裝行程也好，而不是只找旅行社。我不知道你們會往這方向上調整嗎？"],["陳署長玉秀：有的，我們16個駐外單位，原則上都有跟當地的OTA平臺合作，然後在國內的部分，我們也在上上禮拜才找了所有的OTA平臺一起來商量，大家如何一起來努力，不管是國際旅客送進來，或者是國內國旅這一塊，希望大家都可以一起來為國旅打拼，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝署長，隨著科技跟商業市場的變化，我們觀光署要努力的迎合市場，好不好？"],["陳署長玉秀：好。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來請陳雪生委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-4","speakers":["洪孟楷","林國成","蔡其昌","李昆澤","何欣純","魯明哲","林俊憲","徐富癸","陳素月","許智傑","黃健豪","陳雪生","邱若華","賴惠員","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲","麥玉珍","黃珊珊","王鴻薇","邱志偉","游顥","牛煦庭","葉元之","林德福","徐巧芯","廖先翔"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2025-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1149001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長及交通部觀光署署長就「900萬國際旅客達標情形及旅宿業歇業缺工情形振\n興改善措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部部長及交通部觀光署署長就「配合賴清\n德總統所提『國家希望工程』與『觀光立國2030年觀光兆元產業』等目標如何務實達成」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149001_00003"}}}