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00:00:14,277\n麻煩再請卓院長勞動部長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:27,881 --> 00:00:52,558\n院長好照顧勞工是我們政府最重要的基本責任當然要分成三個方向第一個是照顧勞工的基本生活第二是照顧勞工而且要保障勞工的這樣的一個退休的生活第三是要讓勞工的權益獲得保障過得更好\n\n3\n00:00:53,376 --> 00:00:58,207\n那在過去我們長期關注的有關勞保的議題\n\n4\n00:00:59,505 --> 00:01:26,344\n尤其是在2012年陳沖擔任行政院長當時還沒有勞動部當時是勞委會的主委王如選主委在當時我針對勞保財務精算報告引起社會的恐慌勞工的擔心就是擔心勞保是不是有財務的危機在當時2012年10月我提出兩個重要的訴求\n\n5\n00:01:27,045 --> 00:01:50,960\n第一個是政府的撥補要像公務員的公保一樣如果有虧損基金不足的時候政府必須要來撥補公務員有勞工也要有第二是要政府要國家負起最終支付責任我記得在2012年的10月31號\n\n6\n00:01:53,951 --> 00:02:17,982\n我就提案要求針對勞保條例第69條必須要明文入法但是經過了從陳聰院長到民進黨執政之後民進黨的行政院長向社會公開承諾政府要撥補而且國家要負最終支付責任而且也實際做到了我們從2020年開始\n\n7\n00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:25,315\n蘇貞昌院長開始撥補200億2021年編到220億到今年謝謝卓院長我們今年編了1200億的公務預算以及100億的特別預算在明年\n\n8\n00:02:36,857 --> 00:02:50,699\n主委院長雖然在財政多重的這種不公平的壓力之下主委院長還是站在勞工的立場還是編組了1200億的公務預算再加100億的特別預算\n\n9\n00:02:51,482 --> 00:03:08,753\n但是現在勞工雖然肯定卓院長對於勞工對於勞保勞工退休生活的一個基本保障的用心其實我要跟院長來提到的我們還是必須要明文入法雖然實質上政府撥補\n\n10\n00:03:10,114 --> 00:03:31,781\n以及國家負最終支付責任實際上民進黨的行政院都做到了但是勞工還是擔憂要有明文入法才能對勞工的勞保必須有更具體的一個保障那我們在過去提到這個相關的議題其實2012年的時候我提案在2024年這一屆\n\n11\n00:03:36,124 --> 00:03:55,110\n的4月9號我又再一次的提案一直提案就是要督促政府讓勞工能夠安心這就是所謂的安心條款那在過去我們說要跟跟勞工跟學界跟資方來做相關的對話我認為必須要\n\n12\n00:03:58,089 --> 00:04:22,581\n再進一步做到法制化的推動來請卓院長說明一下好謝謝經過多年這樣的努力跟政府撥補的政策我們的勞保基金的規模現在已經足以讓大家安心所以今天委員在這裡的質詢跟等一下我們現在的答覆絕對不會讓勞工恐慌讓社會擔心絕對沒有過去那個情境了\n\n13\n00:04:23,061 --> 00:04:51,729\n那麼從114年到現在我們撥補的金額整個已經高達3800多億再加上明年的1200億跟100億已經超過了5000億我想這樣的撥補的政策我們會持續下去那這個就是政府代表政府對勞保基金以及勞工權益最大最後的責任那是不是要入法那個勞動部一直有在做各種財政上面的規劃跟研究請洪部長說明\n\n14\n00:04:52,974 --> 00:05:01,345\n跟委員說明其實當然因為現在我們確實看到尤其是李委員其實最早的時候就已經提出這個最終責任的入法\n\n15\n00:05:02,599 --> 00:05:24,559\n其實現在在政策上面我們其實就是政府負擔最終責任我想這部分在政策上我們宣示很多次當然如果接下來在委員會裡面朝野委員要針對這個部分來排審我們也會持一個開放的態度來跟委員們來做這部分的討論當然我們也會來尊重最後在立法院審議的結果\n\n16\n00:05:26,077 --> 00:05:41,223\n這個必須要父親照顧勞工退休生活我們必須更積極的負起這樣的責任現在先請卓院長回座位休息因為接下來我有一些政策的細節來跟洪部長來做討論謝謝卓院長麻煩請卓院長休息\n\n17\n00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:59,088\n好謝謝洪部長我們接下來就針對就業服務法第5條就是有關於透明薪資的部分我們現在在招募員工如果是4萬元以下必須要幫\n\n18\n00:06:00,287 --> 00:06:23,492\n要把相关薪资的数字写在招募的这样的一个公告里面如果你是三万三你也可以写三万三到三万六但是不能超过这个弹性不能超过五千元但是现在这个当初的就业服务法是在2018年的时候制定\n\n19\n00:06:24,952 --> 00:06:43,973\n當時候制定它必須要考量兩個方面第一個是經常性的薪資第一個是當時稱為基本工資現在已經改為最低工資當時這樣的一個經常性薪資大概是41700元但是現在都已經超過46000元\n\n20\n00:06:46,491 --> 00:06:59,575\n相關的基本工資我們也一再的調整民進黨執政之後我們就已經有10次調整這樣的一個基本工資到明年月薪可以調到29500元時薪調到196元薪資調整經常性薪資也調整我認為這個4萬元必須要做調整\n\n21\n00:07:11,089 --> 00:07:39,724\n必須要做調整要調高之外而且要有機制性的一個調整讓勞工來了解相關的薪資的狀況對於自己的權益能夠更清楚的掌握來部長說明一下跟李委員說明其實我們非常非常在意這個對於勞工的薪資條件的各種保障所以我們這幾年其實第一個就像剛剛委員說的最低工資我們不斷已經連10次的調整現在已經快要接近到3萬了\n\n22\n00:07:40,905 --> 00:07:55,026\n那第二個我不知道我有沒有注意到其實我們這兩天其實公布的這個移工的新的方案裡面其實也把加薪的條件給加進去也就是要多聘移工就要來幫本國勞工加薪這都是我們希望能夠\n\n23\n00:07:56,788 --> 00:08:16,287\n為提高勞工的薪資做更多的努力另外一個也很重要的其實是剛剛李委員說的在國際上面有用這叫做薪資的透明化透過薪資透明化的部分也有助於讓勞工的薪水其實在大家透明的狀況下面大家就會去比較然後可以再把這個薪資可以調高\n\n24\n00:08:16,767 --> 00:08:39,074\n所以的確對於薪資的透明化的部分目前是4萬塊我們也有在檢討是不是要再把它往上拉高甚至接下來是有一個機制性的可以拉高我想這部分我們也在考慮這件事情因為讓勞工掌握薪資的透明度對於他薪資的狀況更能掌握他自己的一個權益那相關的這個調高是一個勢在必行的趨勢\n\n25\n00:08:40,154 --> 00:08:59,631\n美國或是歐洲很多國家都已經有這樣的一個反而是更嚴謹的更詳細的這樣的一個薪資透明那我們現在是希望他有一個調高而且是有一個機制來做處理那我有提出我的版本我認為是應該以最低工資的\n\n26\n00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:19,297\n1.75倍但是我是建議1.5到1.8都可以你認為呢我覺得想當然這個實際的數字我們可以看委員們各委員來做一些研議但的確現在4萬我們也覺得是可以有調高的空間甚至它就變成是一個機制性的它不一定一定是一個定數或者是\n\n27\n00:09:20,939 --> 00:09:43,300\n的這個狀況所以我想我們其實也在擬定相關的這個修法的版本那會來參考大家的意見然後我想到時候來跟關心的委員來大家一起做討論我們當然希望對勞工的薪資有更多的保障還有往上支撐的力道我想薪資透明化是一個蠻重要支撐的力道謝謝部長必須要落實的去推動\n\n28\n00:09:44,947 --> 00:09:56,972\n說完就業服務法我們來談就業保險法我有三個小子題來跟部長討論第一個是高齡勞工的問題第二個是失業勞工的問題第三是有關於6加1的相關育嬰價的問題\n\n29\n00:10:02,288 --> 00:10:18,486\n是否要再加入我們的單親上偶的勞工第一個高齡的部分我們就業保險法目前所規定保險的對象是15歲到65歲我認為必須要提高現在中高齡的這樣的一個\n\n30\n00:10:20,959 --> 00:10:40,769\n就業是未來的一個趨勢也是一個現象到65歲之後我們也必須應該給予就業的保險當然這個前提在年齡提高他必須沒有其他的給付才可以有這樣的一個保險的適用部長說明一下你的看法\n\n31\n00:10:41,674 --> 00:10:57,651\n其實因為這個舊保法的這個檢討其實我們現在也在最後的這個盤整的階段那其中一個部分就是對於試用年齡65歲是不是要再往上打開那尤其是現在\n\n32\n00:10:58,992 --> 00:11:27,811\n這個少子化跟高齡化的議題其實我們也看到蠻多的中高齡的勞工他的確還有在往下工作的意願所以是不是把這個給打開也符合現在整體的趨勢我們的確現在也在規劃當中所以我想應該這幾個月我們其實就會來提出救保法的這個草案修法的草案那就希望送到立法院先送到行政院然後再送到立法院大家來討論跟修訂\n\n33\n00:11:29,212 --> 00:11:47,809\n好相關的法治法等一下你再請你說明相關的時程必須也要明確的跟勞工來做報告跟說明剛才我們提到有關於高齡勞工這樣的一個就業保險法他的年齡必須要調高之外我們來談失業勞工的給付\n\n34\n00:11:50,819 --> 00:12:15,273\n现在失业劳工他要申请相关的国家的一些补助给付啊他必须是要在他失业之后14天之内他经过公家或相关的媒介找不到工作或是没有办法得到职业训练的状况之下14天之后才可以清理相关的失业给付\n\n35\n00:12:16,013 --> 00:12:43,536\n但我認為在現在的這樣一個社會繁重的壓力跟節奏之下我認為也必須要縮短這樣一個失業給付的日期等待日期我的初步建議是要縮短到7到10天讓勞工趕快可以針對這樣的一個失業的狀況有一個可以應急的這樣的一個資源來請部長說明一下你的看法\n\n36\n00:12:44,393 --> 00:13:05,674\n跟委員說明其實現在確實整體的失業率是相對比較低的但是其實我們對於失業勞工他其實相關的權益包括他其實可以申請相關資源的這個權益其實這也是我們現在在救保法在檢討的部分剛剛在講到14天是不是要往下休我們其實的確目前也有在規劃是不是要比方說剛剛講7天\n\n37\n00:13:08,116 --> 00:13:34,063\n這樣子的數字那希望能夠讓他的權利或申請相關的資源的時候不用有中間這麼多的間隔那這部分也是在現在剛才在講到整體的這個救保法的這個檢討之中那我認為是蠻有機會是在我們的草案裡面來提出那來跟社會來討論另外這都要加強他的法制化的作用而且在修法的過程還是必須跟勞工團體跟工會來進行對話當然\n\n38\n00:13:36,738 --> 00:13:47,886\n另外我們來討論到育嬰假的議題那總統有向社會宣示勞工的育嬰假要6加1就是說\n\n39\n00:13:49,366 --> 00:14:07,126\n爸爸妈妈如果你们请了六个月的育婴假这个孩子还是需要照顾那可以再加一个月也是留子停薪的这样的一个育婴的重要的时间那6加1的这个法制化的过程现在怎么样\n\n40\n00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:30,943\n現在6加1因為也在行政院的這個雙就業雙照顧的這個國發會在督導的這部分經發會在督導這部分裡面所以也是在這個救保法的修法裡面那我們一樣因為這也是在賴總統的政見裡面希望把它延長一個月那重點是說它其實是要雙清都清滿六個月那才能夠有這個6加1的部分那這也兼顧到一些照顧的性別平等的問題\n\n41\n00:14:32,003 --> 00:14:57,550\n所以我說這也是在我們那一整個救保法的修法的期程裡面我們希望可以一併把它提出部長所以我現在說6加1必須要加緊它的法制化之外我現在再提一個就是單親喪偶的育嬰假我們必須要拿入我們現在討論的都是雙親雙親你都請好你的育嬰假之後你可以再加1這是我們要修法的一個重要的方向那單親喪偶的呢\n\n42\n00:14:58,888 --> 00:15:14,318\n單親在我們的檢討裡面也包括在考慮裡面因為如果是單親的部分當然更需要因為他就比較不是一個傳統大家認為性別平等的問題可是單親的話他可能更需要這樣子一個延長的照顧因為他照顧起來單親可能會更吃力一點所以我們當然要把他給考慮進來\n\n43\n00:15:15,499 --> 00:15:32,834\n我們對於勞工的照顧是我們重要的責任不管是調薪或是我們通過了職業災害勞工保險及保護法以及未來的救護法以及救保法我們都必須要積極的修正保障勞工謝謝部長謝謝李坤哲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12615\t14277\t麻煩再請卓院長 勞動部長備詢\n27881\t52558\t院長好 照顧勞工是我們政府最重要的基本責任當然要分成三個方向第一個是照顧勞工的基本生活第二是照顧勞工而且要保障勞工的這樣的一個退休的生活第三是要讓勞工的權益獲得保障過得更好\n53376\t58207\t那在過去我們長期關注的有關勞保的議題\n59505\t86344\t尤其是在2012年陳沖擔任行政院長當時還沒有勞動部當時是勞委會的主委王如選主委在當時我針對勞保財務精算報告引起社會的恐慌勞工的擔心就是擔心勞保是不是有財務的危機在當時2012年10月我提出兩個重要的訴求\n87045\t110960\t第一個是政府的撥補要像公務員的公保一樣如果有虧損基金不足的時候政府必須要來撥補公務員有勞工也要有第二是要政府要國家負起最終支付責任我記得在2012年的10月31號\n113951\t137982\t我就提案要求針對勞保條例第69條必須要明文入法但是經過了從陳聰院長到民進黨執政之後民進黨的行政院長向社會公開承諾政府要撥補而且國家要負最終支付責任而且也實際做到了我們從2020年開始\n140750\t145315\t蘇貞昌院長開始撥補200億2021年編到220億到今年謝謝卓院長我們今年編了1200億的公務預算以及100億的特別預算在明年\n156857\t170699\t主委院長雖然在財政多重的這種不公平的壓力之下主委院長還是站在勞工的立場還是編組了1200億的公務預算再加100億的特別預算\n171482\t188753\t但是現在勞工雖然肯定卓院長對於勞工對於勞保勞工退休生活的一個基本保障的用心其實我要跟院長來提到的我們還是必須要明文入法雖然實質上政府撥補\n190114\t211781\t以及國家負最終支付責任實際上民進黨的行政院都做到了但是勞工還是擔憂要有明文入法才能對勞工的勞保必須有更具體的一個保障那我們在過去提到這個相關的議題其實2012年的時候我提案在2024年這一屆\n216124\t235110\t的4月9號我又再一次的提案一直提案就是要督促政府讓勞工能夠安心這就是所謂的安心條款那在過去我們說要跟跟勞工跟學界跟資方來做相關的對話我認為必須要\n238089\t262581\t再進一步做到法制化的推動來 請卓院長說明一下好 謝謝經過多年這樣的努力跟政府撥補的政策我們的勞保基金的規模現在已經足以讓大家安心所以今天委員在這裡的質詢跟等一下我們現在的答覆絕對不會讓勞工恐慌讓社會擔心絕對沒有過去那個情境了\n263061\t291729\t那麼從114年到現在我們撥補的金額整個已經高達3800多億再加上明年的1200億跟100億已經超過了5000億我想這樣的撥補的政策我們會持續下去那這個就是政府代表政府對勞保基金以及勞工權益最大最後的責任那是不是要入法那個勞動部一直有在做各種財政上面的規劃跟研究請洪部長說明\n292974\t301345\t跟委員說明其實當然因為現在我們確實看到尤其是李委員其實最早的時候就已經提出這個最終責任的入法\n302599\t324559\t其實現在在政策上面我們其實就是政府負擔最終責任我想這部分在政策上我們宣示很多次當然如果接下來在委員會裡面朝野委員要針對這個部分來排審我們也會持一個開放的態度來跟委員們來做這部分的討論當然我們也會來尊重最後在立法院審議的結果\n326077\t341223\t這個必須要父親照顧勞工退休生活我們必須更積極的負起這樣的責任現在先請卓院長回座位休息因為接下來我有一些政策的細節來跟洪部長來做討論謝謝卓院長麻煩請卓院長休息\n345319\t359088\t好謝謝洪部長我們接下來就針對就業服務法第5條就是有關於透明薪資的部分我們現在在招募員工如果是4萬元以下必須要幫\n360287\t383492\t要把相关薪资的数字写在招募的这样的一个公告里面如果你是三万三你也可以写三万三到三万六但是不能超过这个弹性不能超过五千元但是现在这个当初的就业服务法是在2018年的时候制定\n384952\t403973\t當時候制定它必須要考量兩個方面第一個是經常性的薪資第一個是當時稱為基本工資現在已經改為最低工資當時這樣的一個經常性薪資大概是41700元但是現在都已經超過46000元\n406491\t419575\t相關的基本工資我們也一再的調整民進黨執政之後我們就已經有10次調整這樣的一個基本工資到明年月薪可以調到29500元時薪調到196元薪資調整經常性薪資也調整我認為這個4萬元必須要做調整\n431089\t459724\t必須要做調整要調高之外而且要有機制性的一個調整讓勞工來了解相關的薪資的狀況對於自己的權益能夠更清楚的掌握來 部長說明一下跟李委員說明其實我們非常非常在意這個對於勞工的薪資條件的各種保障所以我們這幾年其實第一個就像剛剛委員說的最低工資我們不斷已經連10次的調整現在已經快要接近到3萬了\n460905\t475026\t那第二個我不知道我有沒有注意到其實我們這兩天其實公布的這個移工的新的方案裡面其實也把加薪的條件給加進去也就是要多聘移工就要來幫本國勞工加薪這都是我們希望能夠\n476788\t496287\t為提高勞工的薪資做更多的努力另外一個也很重要的其實是剛剛李委員說的在國際上面有用這叫做薪資的透明化透過薪資透明化的部分也有助於讓勞工的薪水其實在大家透明的狀況下面大家就會去比較然後可以再把這個薪資可以調高\n496767\t519074\t所以的確對於薪資的透明化的部分目前是4萬塊我們也有在檢討是不是要再把它往上拉高甚至接下來是有一個機制性的可以拉高我想這部分我們也在考慮這件事情因為讓勞工掌握薪資的透明度對於他薪資的狀況更能掌握他自己的一個權益那相關的這個調高是一個勢在必行的趨勢\n520154\t539631\t美國或是歐洲很多國家都已經有這樣的一個反而是更嚴謹的更詳細的這樣的一個薪資透明那我們現在是希望他有一個調高而且是有一個機制來做處理那我有提出我的版本我認為是應該以最低工資的\n541160\t559297\t1.75倍但是我是建議1.5到1.8都可以你認為呢我覺得想當然這個實際的數字我們可以看委員們各委員來做一些研議但的確現在4萬我們也覺得是可以有調高的空間甚至它就變成是一個機制性的它不一定一定是一個定數或者是\n560939\t583300\t的這個狀況所以我想我們其實也在擬定相關的這個修法的版本那會來參考大家的意見然後我想到時候來跟關心的委員來大家一起做討論我們當然希望對勞工的薪資有更多的保障還有往上支撐的力道我想薪資透明化是一個蠻重要支撐的力道謝謝部長必須要落實的去推動\n584947\t596972\t說完就業服務法我們來談就業保險法我有三個小子題來跟部長討論第一個是高齡勞工的問題第二個是失業勞工的問題第三是有關於6加1的相關育嬰價的問題\n602288\t618486\t是否要再加入我們的單親上偶的勞工第一個高齡的部分我們就業保險法目前所規定保險的對象是15歲到65歲我認為必須要提高現在中高齡的這樣的一個\n620959\t640769\t就業是未來的一個趨勢也是一個現象到65歲之後我們也必須應該給予就業的保險當然這個前提在年齡提高他必須沒有其他的給付才可以有這樣的一個保險的適用部長說明一下你的看法\n641674\t657651\t其實因為這個舊保法的這個檢討其實我們現在也在最後的這個盤整的階段那其中一個部分就是對於試用年齡65歲是不是要再往上打開那尤其是現在\n658992\t687811\t這個少子化跟高齡化的議題其實我們也看到蠻多的中高齡的勞工他的確還有在往下工作的意願所以是不是把這個給打開也符合現在整體的趨勢我們的確現在也在規劃當中所以我想應該這幾個月我們其實就會來提出救保法的這個草案修法的草案那就希望送到立法院先送到行政院然後再送到立法院大家來討論跟修訂\n689212\t707809\t好 相關的法治法等一下你再請你說明相關的時程必須也要明確的跟勞工來做報告跟說明剛才我們提到有關於高齡勞工這樣的一個就業保險法他的年齡必須要調高之外我們來談失業勞工的給付\n710819\t735273\t现在失业劳工他要申请相关的国家的一些补助给付啊他必须是要在他失业之后14天之内他经过公家或相关的媒介找不到工作或是没有办法得到职业训练的状况之下14天之后才可以清理相关的失业给付\n736013\t763536\t但我認為在現在的這樣一個社會繁重的壓力跟節奏之下我認為也必須要縮短這樣一個失業給付的日期等待日期我的初步建議是要縮短到7到10天讓勞工趕快可以針對這樣的一個失業的狀況有一個可以應急的這樣的一個資源來 請部長說明一下你的看法\n764393\t785674\t跟委員說明其實現在確實整體的失業率是相對比較低的但是其實我們對於失業勞工他其實相關的權益包括他其實可以申請相關資源的這個權益其實這也是我們現在在救保法在檢討的部分剛剛在講到14天是不是要往下休我們其實的確目前也有在規劃是不是要比方說剛剛講7天\n788116\t814063\t這樣子的數字那希望能夠讓他的權利或申請相關的資源的時候不用有中間這麼多的間隔那這部分也是在現在剛才在講到整體的這個救保法的這個檢討之中那我認為是蠻有機會是在我們的草案裡面來提出那來跟社會來討論另外這都要加強他的法制化的作用而且在修法的過程還是必須跟勞工團體跟工會來進行對話當然\n816738\t827886\t另外我們來討論到育嬰假的議題那總統有向社會宣示勞工的育嬰假要6加1就是說\n829366\t847126\t爸爸妈妈如果你们请了六个月的育婴假这个孩子还是需要照顾那可以再加一个月也是留子停薪的这样的一个育婴的重要的时间那6加1的这个法制化的过程现在怎么样\n848790\t870943\t現在6加1因為也在行政院的這個雙就業雙照顧的這個國發會在督導的這部分經發會在督導這部分裡面所以也是在這個救保法的修法裡面那我們一樣因為這也是在賴總統的政見裡面希望把它延長一個月那重點是說它其實是要雙清都清滿六個月那才能夠有這個6加1的部分那這也兼顧到一些照顧的性別平等的問題\n872003\t897550\t所以我說這也是在我們那一整個救保法的修法的期程裡面我們希望可以一併把它提出部長所以我現在說6加1必須要加緊它的法制化之外我現在再提一個就是單親喪偶的育嬰假我們必須要拿入我們現在討論的都是雙親雙親你都請好你的育嬰假之後你可以再加1這是我們要修法的一個重要的方向那單親喪偶的呢\n898888\t914318\t單親在我們的檢討裡面也包括在考慮裡面因為如果是單親的部分當然更需要因為他就比較不是一個傳統大家認為性別平等的問題可是單親的話他可能更需要這樣子一個延長的照顧因為他照顧起來單親可能會更吃力一點所以我們當然要把他給考慮進來\n915499\t932834\t我們對於勞工的照顧是我們重要的責任不管是調薪或是我們通過了職業災害勞工保險及保護法以及未來的救護法以及救保法我們都必須要積極的修正保障勞工謝謝部長謝謝李坤哲委員\n","txt":"麻煩再請卓院長 勞動部長備詢\n院長好 照顧勞工是我們政府最重要的基本責任當然要分成三個方向第一個是照顧勞工的基本生活第二是照顧勞工而且要保障勞工的這樣的一個退休的生活第三是要讓勞工的權益獲得保障過得更好\n那在過去我們長期關注的有關勞保的議題\n尤其是在2012年陳沖擔任行政院長當時還沒有勞動部當時是勞委會的主委王如選主委在當時我針對勞保財務精算報告引起社會的恐慌勞工的擔心就是擔心勞保是不是有財務的危機在當時2012年10月我提出兩個重要的訴求\n第一個是政府的撥補要像公務員的公保一樣如果有虧損基金不足的時候政府必須要來撥補公務員有勞工也要有第二是要政府要國家負起最終支付責任我記得在2012年的10月31號\n我就提案要求針對勞保條例第69條必須要明文入法但是經過了從陳聰院長到民進黨執政之後民進黨的行政院長向社會公開承諾政府要撥補而且國家要負最終支付責任而且也實際做到了我們從2020年開始\n蘇貞昌院長開始撥補200億2021年編到220億到今年謝謝卓院長我們今年編了1200億的公務預算以及100億的特別預算在明年\n主委院長雖然在財政多重的這種不公平的壓力之下主委院長還是站在勞工的立場還是編組了1200億的公務預算再加100億的特別預算\n但是現在勞工雖然肯定卓院長對於勞工對於勞保勞工退休生活的一個基本保障的用心其實我要跟院長來提到的我們還是必須要明文入法雖然實質上政府撥補\n以及國家負最終支付責任實際上民進黨的行政院都做到了但是勞工還是擔憂要有明文入法才能對勞工的勞保必須有更具體的一個保障那我們在過去提到這個相關的議題其實2012年的時候我提案在2024年這一屆\n的4月9號我又再一次的提案一直提案就是要督促政府讓勞工能夠安心這就是所謂的安心條款那在過去我們說要跟跟勞工跟學界跟資方來做相關的對話我認為必須要\n再進一步做到法制化的推動來 請卓院長說明一下好 謝謝經過多年這樣的努力跟政府撥補的政策我們的勞保基金的規模現在已經足以讓大家安心所以今天委員在這裡的質詢跟等一下我們現在的答覆絕對不會讓勞工恐慌讓社會擔心絕對沒有過去那個情境了\n那麼從114年到現在我們撥補的金額整個已經高達3800多億再加上明年的1200億跟100億已經超過了5000億我想這樣的撥補的政策我們會持續下去那這個就是政府代表政府對勞保基金以及勞工權益最大最後的責任那是不是要入法那個勞動部一直有在做各種財政上面的規劃跟研究請洪部長說明\n跟委員說明其實當然因為現在我們確實看到尤其是李委員其實最早的時候就已經提出這個最終責任的入法\n其實現在在政策上面我們其實就是政府負擔最終責任我想這部分在政策上我們宣示很多次當然如果接下來在委員會裡面朝野委員要針對這個部分來排審我們也會持一個開放的態度來跟委員們來做這部分的討論當然我們也會來尊重最後在立法院審議的結果\n這個必須要父親照顧勞工退休生活我們必須更積極的負起這樣的責任現在先請卓院長回座位休息因為接下來我有一些政策的細節來跟洪部長來做討論謝謝卓院長麻煩請卓院長休息\n好謝謝洪部長我們接下來就針對就業服務法第5條就是有關於透明薪資的部分我們現在在招募員工如果是4萬元以下必須要幫\n要把相关薪资的数字写在招募的这样的一个公告里面如果你是三万三你也可以写三万三到三万六但是不能超过这个弹性不能超过五千元但是现在这个当初的就业服务法是在2018年的时候制定\n當時候制定它必須要考量兩個方面第一個是經常性的薪資第一個是當時稱為基本工資現在已經改為最低工資當時這樣的一個經常性薪資大概是41700元但是現在都已經超過46000元\n相關的基本工資我們也一再的調整民進黨執政之後我們就已經有10次調整這樣的一個基本工資到明年月薪可以調到29500元時薪調到196元薪資調整經常性薪資也調整我認為這個4萬元必須要做調整\n必須要做調整要調高之外而且要有機制性的一個調整讓勞工來了解相關的薪資的狀況對於自己的權益能夠更清楚的掌握來 部長說明一下跟李委員說明其實我們非常非常在意這個對於勞工的薪資條件的各種保障所以我們這幾年其實第一個就像剛剛委員說的最低工資我們不斷已經連10次的調整現在已經快要接近到3萬了\n那第二個我不知道我有沒有注意到其實我們這兩天其實公布的這個移工的新的方案裡面其實也把加薪的條件給加進去也就是要多聘移工就要來幫本國勞工加薪這都是我們希望能夠\n為提高勞工的薪資做更多的努力另外一個也很重要的其實是剛剛李委員說的在國際上面有用這叫做薪資的透明化透過薪資透明化的部分也有助於讓勞工的薪水其實在大家透明的狀況下面大家就會去比較然後可以再把這個薪資可以調高\n所以的確對於薪資的透明化的部分目前是4萬塊我們也有在檢討是不是要再把它往上拉高甚至接下來是有一個機制性的可以拉高我想這部分我們也在考慮這件事情因為讓勞工掌握薪資的透明度對於他薪資的狀況更能掌握他自己的一個權益那相關的這個調高是一個勢在必行的趨勢\n美國或是歐洲很多國家都已經有這樣的一個反而是更嚴謹的更詳細的這樣的一個薪資透明那我們現在是希望他有一個調高而且是有一個機制來做處理那我有提出我的版本我認為是應該以最低工資的\n1.75倍但是我是建議1.5到1.8都可以你認為呢我覺得想當然這個實際的數字我們可以看委員們各委員來做一些研議但的確現在4萬我們也覺得是可以有調高的空間甚至它就變成是一個機制性的它不一定一定是一個定數或者是\n的這個狀況所以我想我們其實也在擬定相關的這個修法的版本那會來參考大家的意見然後我想到時候來跟關心的委員來大家一起做討論我們當然希望對勞工的薪資有更多的保障還有往上支撐的力道我想薪資透明化是一個蠻重要支撐的力道謝謝部長必須要落實的去推動\n說完就業服務法我們來談就業保險法我有三個小子題來跟部長討論第一個是高齡勞工的問題第二個是失業勞工的問題第三是有關於6加1的相關育嬰價的問題\n是否要再加入我們的單親上偶的勞工第一個高齡的部分我們就業保險法目前所規定保險的對象是15歲到65歲我認為必須要提高現在中高齡的這樣的一個\n就業是未來的一個趨勢也是一個現象到65歲之後我們也必須應該給予就業的保險當然這個前提在年齡提高他必須沒有其他的給付才可以有這樣的一個保險的適用部長說明一下你的看法\n其實因為這個舊保法的這個檢討其實我們現在也在最後的這個盤整的階段那其中一個部分就是對於試用年齡65歲是不是要再往上打開那尤其是現在\n這個少子化跟高齡化的議題其實我們也看到蠻多的中高齡的勞工他的確還有在往下工作的意願所以是不是把這個給打開也符合現在整體的趨勢我們的確現在也在規劃當中所以我想應該這幾個月我們其實就會來提出救保法的這個草案修法的草案那就希望送到立法院先送到行政院然後再送到立法院大家來討論跟修訂\n好 相關的法治法等一下你再請你說明相關的時程必須也要明確的跟勞工來做報告跟說明剛才我們提到有關於高齡勞工這樣的一個就業保險法他的年齡必須要調高之外我們來談失業勞工的給付\n现在失业劳工他要申请相关的国家的一些补助给付啊他必须是要在他失业之后14天之内他经过公家或相关的媒介找不到工作或是没有办法得到职业训练的状况之下14天之后才可以清理相关的失业给付\n但我認為在現在的這樣一個社會繁重的壓力跟節奏之下我認為也必須要縮短這樣一個失業給付的日期等待日期我的初步建議是要縮短到7到10天讓勞工趕快可以針對這樣的一個失業的狀況有一個可以應急的這樣的一個資源來 請部長說明一下你的看法\n跟委員說明其實現在確實整體的失業率是相對比較低的但是其實我們對於失業勞工他其實相關的權益包括他其實可以申請相關資源的這個權益其實這也是我們現在在救保法在檢討的部分剛剛在講到14天是不是要往下休我們其實的確目前也有在規劃是不是要比方說剛剛講7天\n這樣子的數字那希望能夠讓他的權利或申請相關的資源的時候不用有中間這麼多的間隔那這部分也是在現在剛才在講到整體的這個救保法的這個檢討之中那我認為是蠻有機會是在我們的草案裡面來提出那來跟社會來討論另外這都要加強他的法制化的作用而且在修法的過程還是必須跟勞工團體跟工會來進行對話當然\n另外我們來討論到育嬰假的議題那總統有向社會宣示勞工的育嬰假要6加1就是說\n爸爸妈妈如果你们请了六个月的育婴假这个孩子还是需要照顾那可以再加一个月也是留子停薪的这样的一个育婴的重要的时间那6加1的这个法制化的过程现在怎么样\n現在6加1因為也在行政院的這個雙就業雙照顧的這個國發會在督導的這部分經發會在督導這部分裡面所以也是在這個救保法的修法裡面那我們一樣因為這也是在賴總統的政見裡面希望把它延長一個月那重點是說它其實是要雙清都清滿六個月那才能夠有這個6加1的部分那這也兼顧到一些照顧的性別平等的問題\n所以我說這也是在我們那一整個救保法的修法的期程裡面我們希望可以一併把它提出部長所以我現在說6加1必須要加緊它的法制化之外我現在再提一個就是單親喪偶的育嬰假我們必須要拿入我們現在討論的都是雙親雙親你都請好你的育嬰假之後你可以再加1這是我們要修法的一個重要的方向那單親喪偶的呢\n單親在我們的檢討裡面也包括在考慮裡面因為如果是單親的部分當然更需要因為他就比較不是一個傳統大家認為性別平等的問題可是單親的話他可能更需要這樣子一個延長的照顧因為他照顧起來單親可能會更吃力一點所以我們當然要把他給考慮進來\n我們對於勞工的照顧是我們重要的責任不管是調薪或是我們通過了職業災害勞工保險及保護法以及未來的救護法以及救保法我們都必須要積極的修正保障勞工謝謝部長謝謝李坤哲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.615 --> 00:14.277\n麻煩再請卓院長勞動部長備詢\n\n00:27.881 --> 00:52.558\n院長好照顧勞工是我們政府最重要的基本責任當然要分成三個方向第一個是照顧勞工的基本生活第二是照顧勞工而且要保障勞工的這樣的一個退休的生活第三是要讓勞工的權益獲得保障過得更好\n\n00:53.376 --> 00:58.207\n那在過去我們長期關注的有關勞保的議題\n\n00:59.505 --> 01:26.344\n尤其是在2012年陳沖擔任行政院長當時還沒有勞動部當時是勞委會的主委王如選主委在當時我針對勞保財務精算報告引起社會的恐慌勞工的擔心就是擔心勞保是不是有財務的危機在當時2012年10月我提出兩個重要的訴求\n\n01:27.045 --> 01:50.960\n第一個是政府的撥補要像公務員的公保一樣如果有虧損基金不足的時候政府必須要來撥補公務員有勞工也要有第二是要政府要國家負起最終支付責任我記得在2012年的10月31號\n\n01:53.951 --> 02:17.982\n我就提案要求針對勞保條例第69條必須要明文入法但是經過了從陳聰院長到民進黨執政之後民進黨的行政院長向社會公開承諾政府要撥補而且國家要負最終支付責任而且也實際做到了我們從2020年開始\n\n02:20.750 --> 02:25.315\n蘇貞昌院長開始撥補200億2021年編到220億到今年謝謝卓院長我們今年編了1200億的公務預算以及100億的特別預算在明年\n\n02:36.857 --> 02:50.699\n主委院長雖然在財政多重的這種不公平的壓力之下主委院長還是站在勞工的立場還是編組了1200億的公務預算再加100億的特別預算\n\n02:51.482 --> 03:08.753\n但是現在勞工雖然肯定卓院長對於勞工對於勞保勞工退休生活的一個基本保障的用心其實我要跟院長來提到的我們還是必須要明文入法雖然實質上政府撥補\n\n03:10.114 --> 03:31.781\n以及國家負最終支付責任實際上民進黨的行政院都做到了但是勞工還是擔憂要有明文入法才能對勞工的勞保必須有更具體的一個保障那我們在過去提到這個相關的議題其實2012年的時候我提案在2024年這一屆\n\n03:36.124 --> 03:55.110\n的4月9號我又再一次的提案一直提案就是要督促政府讓勞工能夠安心這就是所謂的安心條款那在過去我們說要跟跟勞工跟學界跟資方來做相關的對話我認為必須要\n\n03:58.089 --> 04:22.581\n再進一步做到法制化的推動來請卓院長說明一下好謝謝經過多年這樣的努力跟政府撥補的政策我們的勞保基金的規模現在已經足以讓大家安心所以今天委員在這裡的質詢跟等一下我們現在的答覆絕對不會讓勞工恐慌讓社會擔心絕對沒有過去那個情境了\n\n04:23.061 --> 04:51.729\n那麼從114年到現在我們撥補的金額整個已經高達3800多億再加上明年的1200億跟100億已經超過了5000億我想這樣的撥補的政策我們會持續下去那這個就是政府代表政府對勞保基金以及勞工權益最大最後的責任那是不是要入法那個勞動部一直有在做各種財政上面的規劃跟研究請洪部長說明\n\n04:52.974 --> 05:01.345\n跟委員說明其實當然因為現在我們確實看到尤其是李委員其實最早的時候就已經提出這個最終責任的入法\n\n05:02.599 --> 05:24.559\n其實現在在政策上面我們其實就是政府負擔最終責任我想這部分在政策上我們宣示很多次當然如果接下來在委員會裡面朝野委員要針對這個部分來排審我們也會持一個開放的態度來跟委員們來做這部分的討論當然我們也會來尊重最後在立法院審議的結果\n\n05:26.077 --> 05:41.223\n這個必須要父親照顧勞工退休生活我們必須更積極的負起這樣的責任現在先請卓院長回座位休息因為接下來我有一些政策的細節來跟洪部長來做討論謝謝卓院長麻煩請卓院長休息\n\n05:45.319 --> 05:59.088\n好謝謝洪部長我們接下來就針對就業服務法第5條就是有關於透明薪資的部分我們現在在招募員工如果是4萬元以下必須要幫\n\n06:00.287 --> 06:23.492\n要把相关薪资的数字写在招募的这样的一个公告里面如果你是三万三你也可以写三万三到三万六但是不能超过这个弹性不能超过五千元但是现在这个当初的就业服务法是在2018年的时候制定\n\n06:24.952 --> 06:43.973\n當時候制定它必須要考量兩個方面第一個是經常性的薪資第一個是當時稱為基本工資現在已經改為最低工資當時這樣的一個經常性薪資大概是41700元但是現在都已經超過46000元\n\n06:46.491 --> 06:59.575\n相關的基本工資我們也一再的調整民進黨執政之後我們就已經有10次調整這樣的一個基本工資到明年月薪可以調到29500元時薪調到196元薪資調整經常性薪資也調整我認為這個4萬元必須要做調整\n\n07:11.089 --> 07:39.724\n必須要做調整要調高之外而且要有機制性的一個調整讓勞工來了解相關的薪資的狀況對於自己的權益能夠更清楚的掌握來部長說明一下跟李委員說明其實我們非常非常在意這個對於勞工的薪資條件的各種保障所以我們這幾年其實第一個就像剛剛委員說的最低工資我們不斷已經連10次的調整現在已經快要接近到3萬了\n\n07:40.905 --> 07:55.026\n那第二個我不知道我有沒有注意到其實我們這兩天其實公布的這個移工的新的方案裡面其實也把加薪的條件給加進去也就是要多聘移工就要來幫本國勞工加薪這都是我們希望能夠\n\n07:56.788 --> 08:16.287\n為提高勞工的薪資做更多的努力另外一個也很重要的其實是剛剛李委員說的在國際上面有用這叫做薪資的透明化透過薪資透明化的部分也有助於讓勞工的薪水其實在大家透明的狀況下面大家就會去比較然後可以再把這個薪資可以調高\n\n08:16.767 --> 08:39.074\n所以的確對於薪資的透明化的部分目前是4萬塊我們也有在檢討是不是要再把它往上拉高甚至接下來是有一個機制性的可以拉高我想這部分我們也在考慮這件事情因為讓勞工掌握薪資的透明度對於他薪資的狀況更能掌握他自己的一個權益那相關的這個調高是一個勢在必行的趨勢\n\n08:40.154 --> 08:59.631\n美國或是歐洲很多國家都已經有這樣的一個反而是更嚴謹的更詳細的這樣的一個薪資透明那我們現在是希望他有一個調高而且是有一個機制來做處理那我有提出我的版本我認為是應該以最低工資的\n\n09:01.160 --> 09:19.297\n1.75倍但是我是建議1.5到1.8都可以你認為呢我覺得想當然這個實際的數字我們可以看委員們各委員來做一些研議但的確現在4萬我們也覺得是可以有調高的空間甚至它就變成是一個機制性的它不一定一定是一個定數或者是\n\n09:20.939 --> 09:43.300\n的這個狀況所以我想我們其實也在擬定相關的這個修法的版本那會來參考大家的意見然後我想到時候來跟關心的委員來大家一起做討論我們當然希望對勞工的薪資有更多的保障還有往上支撐的力道我想薪資透明化是一個蠻重要支撐的力道謝謝部長必須要落實的去推動\n\n09:44.947 --> 09:56.972\n說完就業服務法我們來談就業保險法我有三個小子題來跟部長討論第一個是高齡勞工的問題第二個是失業勞工的問題第三是有關於6加1的相關育嬰價的問題\n\n10:02.288 --> 10:18.486\n是否要再加入我們的單親上偶的勞工第一個高齡的部分我們就業保險法目前所規定保險的對象是15歲到65歲我認為必須要提高現在中高齡的這樣的一個\n\n10:20.959 --> 10:40.769\n就業是未來的一個趨勢也是一個現象到65歲之後我們也必須應該給予就業的保險當然這個前提在年齡提高他必須沒有其他的給付才可以有這樣的一個保險的適用部長說明一下你的看法\n\n10:41.674 --> 10:57.651\n其實因為這個舊保法的這個檢討其實我們現在也在最後的這個盤整的階段那其中一個部分就是對於試用年齡65歲是不是要再往上打開那尤其是現在\n\n10:58.992 --> 11:27.811\n這個少子化跟高齡化的議題其實我們也看到蠻多的中高齡的勞工他的確還有在往下工作的意願所以是不是把這個給打開也符合現在整體的趨勢我們的確現在也在規劃當中所以我想應該這幾個月我們其實就會來提出救保法的這個草案修法的草案那就希望送到立法院先送到行政院然後再送到立法院大家來討論跟修訂\n\n11:29.212 --> 11:47.809\n好相關的法治法等一下你再請你說明相關的時程必須也要明確的跟勞工來做報告跟說明剛才我們提到有關於高齡勞工這樣的一個就業保險法他的年齡必須要調高之外我們來談失業勞工的給付\n\n11:50.819 --> 12:15.273\n现在失业劳工他要申请相关的国家的一些补助给付啊他必须是要在他失业之后14天之内他经过公家或相关的媒介找不到工作或是没有办法得到职业训练的状况之下14天之后才可以清理相关的失业给付\n\n12:16.013 --> 12:43.536\n但我認為在現在的這樣一個社會繁重的壓力跟節奏之下我認為也必須要縮短這樣一個失業給付的日期等待日期我的初步建議是要縮短到7到10天讓勞工趕快可以針對這樣的一個失業的狀況有一個可以應急的這樣的一個資源來請部長說明一下你的看法\n\n12:44.393 --> 13:05.674\n跟委員說明其實現在確實整體的失業率是相對比較低的但是其實我們對於失業勞工他其實相關的權益包括他其實可以申請相關資源的這個權益其實這也是我們現在在救保法在檢討的部分剛剛在講到14天是不是要往下休我們其實的確目前也有在規劃是不是要比方說剛剛講7天\n\n13:08.116 --> 13:34.063\n這樣子的數字那希望能夠讓他的權利或申請相關的資源的時候不用有中間這麼多的間隔那這部分也是在現在剛才在講到整體的這個救保法的這個檢討之中那我認為是蠻有機會是在我們的草案裡面來提出那來跟社會來討論另外這都要加強他的法制化的作用而且在修法的過程還是必須跟勞工團體跟工會來進行對話當然\n\n13:36.738 --> 13:47.886\n另外我們來討論到育嬰假的議題那總統有向社會宣示勞工的育嬰假要6加1就是說\n\n13:49.366 --> 14:07.126\n爸爸妈妈如果你们请了六个月的育婴假这个孩子还是需要照顾那可以再加一个月也是留子停薪的这样的一个育婴的重要的时间那6加1的这个法制化的过程现在怎么样\n\n14:08.790 --> 14:30.943\n現在6加1因為也在行政院的這個雙就業雙照顧的這個國發會在督導的這部分經發會在督導這部分裡面所以也是在這個救保法的修法裡面那我們一樣因為這也是在賴總統的政見裡面希望把它延長一個月那重點是說它其實是要雙清都清滿六個月那才能夠有這個6加1的部分那這也兼顧到一些照顧的性別平等的問題\n\n14:32.003 --> 14:57.550\n所以我說這也是在我們那一整個救保法的修法的期程裡面我們希望可以一併把它提出部長所以我現在說6加1必須要加緊它的法制化之外我現在再提一個就是單親喪偶的育嬰假我們必須要拿入我們現在討論的都是雙親雙親你都請好你的育嬰假之後你可以再加1這是我們要修法的一個重要的方向那單親喪偶的呢\n\n14:58.888 --> 15:14.318\n單親在我們的檢討裡面也包括在考慮裡面因為如果是單親的部分當然更需要因為他就比較不是一個傳統大家認為性別平等的問題可是單親的話他可能更需要這樣子一個延長的照顧因為他照顧起來單親可能會更吃力一點所以我們當然要把他給考慮進來\n\n15:15.499 --> 15:32.834\n我們對於勞工的照顧是我們重要的責任不管是調薪或是我們通過了職業災害勞工保險及保護法以及未來的救護法以及救保法我們都必須要積極的修正保障勞工謝謝部長謝謝李坤哲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.615,"end":14.277,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長 勞動部長備詢"},{"start":27.881,"end":52.558,"text":"院長好 照顧勞工是我們政府最重要的基本責任當然要分成三個方向第一個是照顧勞工的基本生活第二是照顧勞工而且要保障勞工的這樣的一個退休的生活第三是要讓勞工的權益獲得保障過得更好"},{"start":53.376,"end":58.207,"text":"那在過去我們長期關注的有關勞保的議題"},{"start":59.505,"end":86.344,"text":"尤其是在2012年陳沖擔任行政院長當時還沒有勞動部當時是勞委會的主委王如選主委在當時我針對勞保財務精算報告引起社會的恐慌勞工的擔心就是擔心勞保是不是有財務的危機在當時2012年10月我提出兩個重要的訴求"},{"start":87.045,"end":110.96,"text":"第一個是政府的撥補要像公務員的公保一樣如果有虧損基金不足的時候政府必須要來撥補公務員有勞工也要有第二是要政府要國家負起最終支付責任我記得在2012年的10月31號"},{"start":113.951,"end":137.982,"text":"我就提案要求針對勞保條例第69條必須要明文入法但是經過了從陳聰院長到民進黨執政之後民進黨的行政院長向社會公開承諾政府要撥補而且國家要負最終支付責任而且也實際做到了我們從2020年開始"},{"start":140.75,"end":145.315,"text":"蘇貞昌院長開始撥補200億2021年編到220億到今年謝謝卓院長我們今年編了1200億的公務預算以及100億的特別預算在明年"},{"start":156.857,"end":170.699,"text":"主委院長雖然在財政多重的這種不公平的壓力之下主委院長還是站在勞工的立場還是編組了1200億的公務預算再加100億的特別預算"},{"start":171.482,"end":188.753,"text":"但是現在勞工雖然肯定卓院長對於勞工對於勞保勞工退休生活的一個基本保障的用心其實我要跟院長來提到的我們還是必須要明文入法雖然實質上政府撥補"},{"start":190.114,"end":211.781,"text":"以及國家負最終支付責任實際上民進黨的行政院都做到了但是勞工還是擔憂要有明文入法才能對勞工的勞保必須有更具體的一個保障那我們在過去提到這個相關的議題其實2012年的時候我提案在2024年這一屆"},{"start":216.124,"end":235.11,"text":"的4月9號我又再一次的提案一直提案就是要督促政府讓勞工能夠安心這就是所謂的安心條款那在過去我們說要跟跟勞工跟學界跟資方來做相關的對話我認為必須要"},{"start":238.089,"end":262.581,"text":"再進一步做到法制化的推動來 請卓院長說明一下好 謝謝經過多年這樣的努力跟政府撥補的政策我們的勞保基金的規模現在已經足以讓大家安心所以今天委員在這裡的質詢跟等一下我們現在的答覆絕對不會讓勞工恐慌讓社會擔心絕對沒有過去那個情境了"},{"start":263.061,"end":291.729,"text":"那麼從114年到現在我們撥補的金額整個已經高達3800多億再加上明年的1200億跟100億已經超過了5000億我想這樣的撥補的政策我們會持續下去那這個就是政府代表政府對勞保基金以及勞工權益最大最後的責任那是不是要入法那個勞動部一直有在做各種財政上面的規劃跟研究請洪部長說明"},{"start":292.974,"end":301.345,"text":"跟委員說明其實當然因為現在我們確實看到尤其是李委員其實最早的時候就已經提出這個最終責任的入法"},{"start":302.599,"end":324.559,"text":"其實現在在政策上面我們其實就是政府負擔最終責任我想這部分在政策上我們宣示很多次當然如果接下來在委員會裡面朝野委員要針對這個部分來排審我們也會持一個開放的態度來跟委員們來做這部分的討論當然我們也會來尊重最後在立法院審議的結果"},{"start":326.077,"end":341.223,"text":"這個必須要父親照顧勞工退休生活我們必須更積極的負起這樣的責任現在先請卓院長回座位休息因為接下來我有一些政策的細節來跟洪部長來做討論謝謝卓院長麻煩請卓院長休息"},{"start":345.319,"end":359.088,"text":"好謝謝洪部長我們接下來就針對就業服務法第5條就是有關於透明薪資的部分我們現在在招募員工如果是4萬元以下必須要幫"},{"start":360.287,"end":383.492,"text":"要把相关薪资的数字写在招募的这样的一个公告里面如果你是三万三你也可以写三万三到三万六但是不能超过这个弹性不能超过五千元但是现在这个当初的就业服务法是在2018年的时候制定"},{"start":384.952,"end":403.973,"text":"當時候制定它必須要考量兩個方面第一個是經常性的薪資第一個是當時稱為基本工資現在已經改為最低工資當時這樣的一個經常性薪資大概是41700元但是現在都已經超過46000元"},{"start":406.491,"end":419.575,"text":"相關的基本工資我們也一再的調整民進黨執政之後我們就已經有10次調整這樣的一個基本工資到明年月薪可以調到29500元時薪調到196元薪資調整經常性薪資也調整我認為這個4萬元必須要做調整"},{"start":431.089,"end":459.724,"text":"必須要做調整要調高之外而且要有機制性的一個調整讓勞工來了解相關的薪資的狀況對於自己的權益能夠更清楚的掌握來 部長說明一下跟李委員說明其實我們非常非常在意這個對於勞工的薪資條件的各種保障所以我們這幾年其實第一個就像剛剛委員說的最低工資我們不斷已經連10次的調整現在已經快要接近到3萬了"},{"start":460.905,"end":475.026,"text":"那第二個我不知道我有沒有注意到其實我們這兩天其實公布的這個移工的新的方案裡面其實也把加薪的條件給加進去也就是要多聘移工就要來幫本國勞工加薪這都是我們希望能夠"},{"start":476.788,"end":496.287,"text":"為提高勞工的薪資做更多的努力另外一個也很重要的其實是剛剛李委員說的在國際上面有用這叫做薪資的透明化透過薪資透明化的部分也有助於讓勞工的薪水其實在大家透明的狀況下面大家就會去比較然後可以再把這個薪資可以調高"},{"start":496.767,"end":519.074,"text":"所以的確對於薪資的透明化的部分目前是4萬塊我們也有在檢討是不是要再把它往上拉高甚至接下來是有一個機制性的可以拉高我想這部分我們也在考慮這件事情因為讓勞工掌握薪資的透明度對於他薪資的狀況更能掌握他自己的一個權益那相關的這個調高是一個勢在必行的趨勢"},{"start":520.154,"end":539.631,"text":"美國或是歐洲很多國家都已經有這樣的一個反而是更嚴謹的更詳細的這樣的一個薪資透明那我們現在是希望他有一個調高而且是有一個機制來做處理那我有提出我的版本我認為是應該以最低工資的"},{"start":541.16,"end":559.297,"text":"1.75倍但是我是建議1.5到1.8都可以你認為呢我覺得想當然這個實際的數字我們可以看委員們各委員來做一些研議但的確現在4萬我們也覺得是可以有調高的空間甚至它就變成是一個機制性的它不一定一定是一個定數或者是"},{"start":560.939,"end":583.3,"text":"的這個狀況所以我想我們其實也在擬定相關的這個修法的版本那會來參考大家的意見然後我想到時候來跟關心的委員來大家一起做討論我們當然希望對勞工的薪資有更多的保障還有往上支撐的力道我想薪資透明化是一個蠻重要支撐的力道謝謝部長必須要落實的去推動"},{"start":584.947,"end":596.972,"text":"說完就業服務法我們來談就業保險法我有三個小子題來跟部長討論第一個是高齡勞工的問題第二個是失業勞工的問題第三是有關於6加1的相關育嬰價的問題"},{"start":602.288,"end":618.486,"text":"是否要再加入我們的單親上偶的勞工第一個高齡的部分我們就業保險法目前所規定保險的對象是15歲到65歲我認為必須要提高現在中高齡的這樣的一個"},{"start":620.959,"end":640.769,"text":"就業是未來的一個趨勢也是一個現象到65歲之後我們也必須應該給予就業的保險當然這個前提在年齡提高他必須沒有其他的給付才可以有這樣的一個保險的適用部長說明一下你的看法"},{"start":641.674,"end":657.651,"text":"其實因為這個舊保法的這個檢討其實我們現在也在最後的這個盤整的階段那其中一個部分就是對於試用年齡65歲是不是要再往上打開那尤其是現在"},{"start":658.992,"end":687.811,"text":"這個少子化跟高齡化的議題其實我們也看到蠻多的中高齡的勞工他的確還有在往下工作的意願所以是不是把這個給打開也符合現在整體的趨勢我們的確現在也在規劃當中所以我想應該這幾個月我們其實就會來提出救保法的這個草案修法的草案那就希望送到立法院先送到行政院然後再送到立法院大家來討論跟修訂"},{"start":689.212,"end":707.809,"text":"好 相關的法治法等一下你再請你說明相關的時程必須也要明確的跟勞工來做報告跟說明剛才我們提到有關於高齡勞工這樣的一個就業保險法他的年齡必須要調高之外我們來談失業勞工的給付"},{"start":710.819,"end":735.273,"text":"现在失业劳工他要申请相关的国家的一些补助给付啊他必须是要在他失业之后14天之内他经过公家或相关的媒介找不到工作或是没有办法得到职业训练的状况之下14天之后才可以清理相关的失业给付"},{"start":736.013,"end":763.536,"text":"但我認為在現在的這樣一個社會繁重的壓力跟節奏之下我認為也必須要縮短這樣一個失業給付的日期等待日期我的初步建議是要縮短到7到10天讓勞工趕快可以針對這樣的一個失業的狀況有一個可以應急的這樣的一個資源來 請部長說明一下你的看法"},{"start":764.393,"end":785.674,"text":"跟委員說明其實現在確實整體的失業率是相對比較低的但是其實我們對於失業勞工他其實相關的權益包括他其實可以申請相關資源的這個權益其實這也是我們現在在救保法在檢討的部分剛剛在講到14天是不是要往下休我們其實的確目前也有在規劃是不是要比方說剛剛講7天"},{"start":788.116,"end":814.063,"text":"這樣子的數字那希望能夠讓他的權利或申請相關的資源的時候不用有中間這麼多的間隔那這部分也是在現在剛才在講到整體的這個救保法的這個檢討之中那我認為是蠻有機會是在我們的草案裡面來提出那來跟社會來討論另外這都要加強他的法制化的作用而且在修法的過程還是必須跟勞工團體跟工會來進行對話當然"},{"start":816.738,"end":827.886,"text":"另外我們來討論到育嬰假的議題那總統有向社會宣示勞工的育嬰假要6加1就是說"},{"start":829.366,"end":847.126,"text":"爸爸妈妈如果你们请了六个月的育婴假这个孩子还是需要照顾那可以再加一个月也是留子停薪的这样的一个育婴的重要的时间那6加1的这个法制化的过程现在怎么样"},{"start":848.79,"end":870.943,"text":"現在6加1因為也在行政院的這個雙就業雙照顧的這個國發會在督導的這部分經發會在督導這部分裡面所以也是在這個救保法的修法裡面那我們一樣因為這也是在賴總統的政見裡面希望把它延長一個月那重點是說它其實是要雙清都清滿六個月那才能夠有這個6加1的部分那這也兼顧到一些照顧的性別平等的問題"},{"start":872.003,"end":897.55,"text":"所以我說這也是在我們那一整個救保法的修法的期程裡面我們希望可以一併把它提出部長所以我現在說6加1必須要加緊它的法制化之外我現在再提一個就是單親喪偶的育嬰假我們必須要拿入我們現在討論的都是雙親雙親你都請好你的育嬰假之後你可以再加1這是我們要修法的一個重要的方向那單親喪偶的呢"},{"start":898.888,"end":914.318,"text":"單親在我們的檢討裡面也包括在考慮裡面因為如果是單親的部分當然更需要因為他就比較不是一個傳統大家認為性別平等的問題可是單親的話他可能更需要這樣子一個延長的照顧因為他照顧起來單親可能會更吃力一點所以我們當然要把他給考慮進來"},{"start":915.499,"end":932.834,"text":"我們對於勞工的照顧是我們重要的責任不管是調薪或是我們通過了職業災害勞工保險及保護法以及未來的救護法以及救保法我們都必須要積極的修正保障勞工謝謝部長謝謝李坤哲委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":115,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（15時18分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長及勞動部洪部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、勞動部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：院長好。照顧勞工是政府最重要的基本責任，當然要分成三個方向：第一個，照顧勞工的基本生活；第二個，除了照顧勞工，而且要保障勞工的退休生活；第三個，讓勞工的權益獲得保障，過得更好。在過去，我們長期關注有關勞保的議題，尤其是2012年陳冲擔任行政院長時，那時還沒有勞動部，是勞委會王如玄主委，當時我針對勞保財務精算報告引起社會的恐慌、勞工的擔心，就是擔心勞保是不是有財務危機。2012年10月我提出兩個重要的訴求，第一個，政府的撥補要像公務員的公保一樣，如果有虧損、基金不足的時候，政府必須要撥補，公務員有，勞工也要有。","第二個是政府、國家要負起最終支付責任。我記得在2012年10月31號，我就提案要求針對勞保條例第六十九條必須要明文入法，但是從陳冲院長，民進黨執政後，民進黨的行政院長向社會公開承諾政府要撥補，而且國家要負最終支付責任，也實際做到了。從2020年蘇貞昌院長開始撥補200億，2021年編到220億，到今年，謝謝卓院長，我們今年編了1,200億的公務預算，以及100億的特別預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["李委員昆澤：明年卓院長雖然在財政多重的不公平壓力之下，但是站在勞工的立場，還是編足了1,200億的公務預算，再加100億的特別預算。現在勞工雖然肯定卓院長對於勞工、勞保、勞工退休生活基本保障的用心，但其實我要跟院長提到的是，我們還是必須要明文入法。雖然政府撥補以及國家負最終支付責任，實際上民進黨執政的行政院都做到了，但是勞工還是擔憂，要明文入法才能對勞工的勞保有更具體的保障。","我們在過去就有提到這個相關的議題，其實2012年的時候我有提案，在2024年這一屆的4月9號我又再一次提案，一直提案就是要督促政府，讓勞工能夠安心，這就是所謂的安心條款。在過去我們說要跟勞工、跟學界、跟資方做相關的對話，我認為必須要再進一步做到法制化的推動，請卓院長說明一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。經過多年的努力跟政府撥補的政策，我們勞保基金的規模現在已經足以讓大家安心，所以今天委員在這裡的質詢，跟我們現在和等一下的答復，絕對不會讓勞工恐慌，讓社會擔心，絕對沒有過去那個情境了。那麼從114年到現在，我們撥補的金額已經高達三千八百多億，再加上明年的1,200億跟100億，已經超過了5,000億，我想這樣的撥補政策我們會持續下去，這就是代表政府對勞保基金以及勞工權益會負最大、最後的責任。至於是不是要入法，勞動部一直有在做各種財政上面的規劃跟研究，請洪部長說明。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，當然現在我們確實看到，尤其是李委員，最早的時候就已經提出最終責任入法。其實現在在政策上面就是政府負擔最終責任，我想這部分在政策上我們宣示了很多次。如果接下來在委員會裡面，朝野委員要針對這個部分來排審，我們也會持開放的態度來跟委員們做這部分的討論，當然我們也會尊重最後在立法院審議的結果。"],["李委員昆澤：我們必須要照顧勞工的退休生活，所以我們必須要更積極地負起這樣的責任。"],["洪部長申翰：好。"],["李委員昆澤：現在先請卓院長回座位休息，因為接下來我有一些政策的細節要跟洪部長做討論，謝謝卓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長休息。"],["李委員昆澤：好，謝謝洪部長。我們接下來就針對就業服務法第五條有關透明薪資的部分來討論。現在在招募員工時，如果是4萬元以下，必須要把薪資相關的數字寫在招募公告裡面，如果是3萬3,000元，也可以寫3萬3,000元到3萬6,000元，但是不能超過這個彈性，不能超過5,000元嘛。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["李委員昆澤：但是就業服務法是在2018年時制定的，當時候制定它必須要考量兩方面：第一個是經常性薪資，第二個是當時稱為基本工資，現在已經改為最低工資。在當時的經常性薪資大概是4萬1,700元，但是現在都已經超過4萬6,000元；相關的基本工資，我們也一再的調整，民進黨執政之後，就已經有10次調整基本工資，到明年月薪可以調到2萬9,500元、時薪調到196元。但薪資調整，經常性薪資也調整，我認為這個4萬元必須要調整，除了要調高之外，而且要有機制性的調整，讓勞工來了解相關薪資的狀況，對於自己的權益能夠更清楚的掌握。來，部長說明一下。"],["洪部長申翰：跟李委員說明，其實我們非常非常在意對於勞工薪資條件的各種保障，所以這幾年，第一個，就像剛剛委員說的，最低工資我們不斷調整，已經連10次的調整，現在已經快要接近3萬了。第二個，我不知道委員有沒有注意到，我們這兩天公布的移工新方案裡面，其實也把加薪的條件給加進去，也就是要多聘移工就要幫本國勞工加薪，這都是我們為了能夠提高勞工薪資所做更多的努力。另外一個也很重要的，其實是剛剛李委員說的，在國際上也有用，這叫做薪資的透明化，透過薪資透明化，也有助於讓勞工的薪水，大家在透明的狀況下面，就會去比較，然後可以再把薪資調高。所以，的確對於薪資透明化的部分，目前是4萬塊，我們也有在檢討是不是要再把它往上拉高，甚至接下來是有機制性的可以拉高，我想這部分，我們也在考慮這件事情。"],["李委員昆澤：因為讓勞工掌握薪資的透明度及薪資的狀況，更能掌握自己的權益，相關的調高是一個勢在必行的趨勢，反而美國或者歐洲很多國家都已經有這樣更嚴謹的、更詳細的薪資透明規範。我們現在是希望它能調高，而且是有一個機制來處理，我有提出我的版本，我認為應該以最低工資的1.75倍，但是我是建議1.5到1.8倍都可以，你認為呢？"],["洪部長申翰：當然實際的數字我們可以跟委員們做一些研議，的確現在4萬塊，我們也覺得有可以調高的空間，甚至就變成是一個機制性的，它不一定是一個定數或者……的狀況。我們其實也在擬定相關修法的版本，會參考大家的意見，我想到時候跟關心的委員大家一起討論。我們當然希望對勞工的薪資有更多的保障，還有往上支撐的力道，我想薪資透明化是一個蠻重要的支撐力道。"],["李委員昆澤：好，謝謝部長，必須要去落實推動。說完就業服務法，我們來談就業保險法，我有三個小子題來跟部長討論：第一個是高齡勞工的問題；第二個是失業勞工的問題，第三個是有關於6加1相關育嬰假的問題，是否要再加入單親、喪偶的勞工？關於高齡的部分，就業保險法目前所規定的保險對象是15歲到65歲，我認為必須要提高，因為中高齡的就業是未來的趨勢，也是一個現象。到65歲之後，我們也必須給予就業的保險，當然這個年齡提高，前提是他必須沒有其他的給付，才可以有這樣一個保險的適用。部長，說明一下你的看法。"],["洪部長申翰：關於就保法的檢討，其實我們現在也在最後的盤整階段，其中一個部分就是對於適用年齡65歲是不是要再往上打開？尤其是現在少子化跟高齡化的議題，我們也看到蠻多中高齡的勞工，他的確還有再繼續工作的意願，所以是不是把這個給打開，也符合現在整體的趨勢，我們的確也在規劃當中。我想應該這幾個月我們就會提出就保法修法的草案，先送到行政院，再送到立法院，大家來討論跟修訂。"],["李委員昆澤：好，相關的法制化等一下再請你說明相關的時程，也要明確跟勞工報告跟說明。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["李委員昆澤：剛剛我們提到有關於就業保險法對於高齡勞工的年齡必須要調高之外，我們來談失業勞工的給付。現在失業勞工要申請相關國家的一些補助、給付，必須在失業之後14天之內，經過公家或相關的媒介後找不到工作，或是沒有辦法得到職業訓練的狀況之下，14天之後才可以請領相關的失業給付，但現在這樣一個社會繁重的壓力跟節奏之下，我認為也必須要縮短失業給付的等待時間，我初步的建議是要縮短到7到10天，讓勞工趕快可以針對失業的狀況有一個可以應急的資源。請部長說明一下你的看法。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，現在確實整體的失業率是相對比較低的，但是我們對於失業勞工相關的權益，包括他可以申請相關資源的權益，其實這也是我們現在就保法在檢討的部分。剛剛講到14天是否要往下修，我們的確目前也有在規劃是不是要……比方說剛剛講7天這樣的數字，希望能夠讓他的權利或在申請相關資源的時候，中間不用有這麼多的間隔。這部分也是剛剛講到整體就保法的檢討之中，我認為滿有機會在我們的草案裡面提出跟社會討論。"],["李委員昆澤：另外，這都要加強它法制化的作用，而且在修法的過程，還是必須跟勞工團體、工會進行對話。"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["李委員昆澤：另外，我們來討論育嬰假的議題。賴總統有向社會宣示，勞工的育嬰假要六加一，就是爸爸媽媽如果請了六個月的育嬰假，孩子仍然還是需要照顧，可以再加一個月留職停薪的育嬰重要時間，六加一法制化的過程，現在怎麼樣呢？"],["洪部長申翰：現在六加一，因為也在行政院「雙就業、雙照顧」由經發會督導的部分，也是在就保法的修法裡面，一樣地，這也是在賴總統的政見裡面，希望把它延長一個月，重點其實是要雙親都請滿六個月才能夠有六加一的部分。"],["李委員昆澤：是。"],["洪部長申翰：這也兼顧到一些照顧者性別平等的問題，這也是在整個就保法修法的期程裡面，我們希望可以一併把它提出來。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，我現在說六加一必須要加緊法制化之外，我現在再提一個，就是單親喪偶的育嬰假必須要納入。我們現在討論的都是雙親，雙親都請好育嬰假之後，可以再加一，這是我們要修法的一個重要方向，那單親喪偶的呢？"],["洪部長申翰：單親喪偶在我們檢討的部分也包括在考慮裡面，如果是單親的部分，當然更需要，因為他就比較不是傳統大家認為性別平等的問題，可是單親的話，他可能更需要這樣子延長的照顧，因為單親照顧起來可能會更吃力一點，所以我們當然要把它考慮進來。"],["李委員昆澤：當然，對於勞工的照顧是我們的重要責任，不管是調薪或是我們通過的勞工職業災害保險及保護法，以及未來的就服法、就保法，我們都必須要積極地修正來保障勞工，謝謝部長。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李昆澤委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。","接下來我們請王正旭委員質詢，張嘉郡委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","許智傑","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李昆澤","王正旭","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","沈發惠","許宇甄","王世堅","葉元之","陳玉珍"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-10-31"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00008"}}}