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{\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 119.475, \"end\": 119.815, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"宕\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 119.815, \"end\": 120.015, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 120.015, \"end\": 120.255, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 120.255, \"end\": 120.615, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 120.615, \"end\": 121.316, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 121.316, \"end\": 121.456, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 121.456, \"end\": 121.576, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 121.576, \"end\": 121.756, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 121.756, \"end\": 121.776, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 123.187, \"end\": 138.596, \"text\": \"跟委員報告 因為之前有提到說六千多億的這個部分 據我們了解這是那個卡托研究所他就美國對台的軍售案他支會國會的金額 並不是延宕的金額 這可能要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 123.187, \"end\": 123.347, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 123.347, 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131.432, \"end\": 132.392, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 132.392, \"end\": 132.693, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 132.693, \"end\": 133.633, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 133.633, \"end\": 133.873, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 133.873, \"end\": 134.173, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"售\", \"start\": 134.173, \"end\": 134.313, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 134.313, \"end\": 134.514, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 134.514, \"end\": 134.794, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 134.794, \"end\": 135.554, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 135.554, \"end\": 135.694, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 135.694, \"end\": 136.255, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 136.255, \"end\": 136.395, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 136.395, \"end\": 136.915, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 136.915, \"end\": 137.315, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"宕\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 137.315, \"end\": 137.455, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 137.455, \"end\": 138.356, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 138.356, \"end\": 138.476, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 138.476, \"end\": 138.576, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 138.576, \"end\": 138.596, \"score\": 0.426}]}, {\"start\": 139.701, \"end\": 158.021, \"text\": \"說明一下 所以這個6千億這個部分金額是錯誤的沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的一個狀況那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員有提到的就是說最金額最大的當然就是F16B Block White Dome這個有80億美金\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 139.701, \"end\": 139.922, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 139.922, \"end\": 139.982, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 139.982, \"end\": 140.262, 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\"W\", \"start\": 156.339, \"end\": 156.6, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"h\", \"start\": 156.6, \"end\": 156.82, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"i\", \"start\": 156.82, \"end\": 156.88, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"t\", \"start\": 156.88, \"end\": 156.92, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"e\", \"start\": 156.92, \"end\": 157.02, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"D\", \"start\": 157.02, \"end\": 157.16, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 157.16, \"end\": 157.3, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"m\", \"start\": 157.3, \"end\": 157.501, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"e\", \"start\": 157.501, \"end\": 157.621, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 157.621, \"end\": 157.761, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 157.761, \"end\": 158.001, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 158.001, \"end\": 158.021, \"score\": 0.142}]}, {\"start\": 158.962, \"end\": 181.857, \"text\": \"那另外AGM1517這個大概是一億一千多萬美金然後MK48重型儀錬大概是一億七千七百多萬加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金大概現在有延宕的這個金額大概總額是所以就是跟六千億還是有差別嗎八十二億的話換算成不到三千億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 158.962, \"end\": 159.202, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 159.202, \"end\": 159.402, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 159.402, \"end\": 160.083, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 160.083, \"end\": 160.963, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 160.963, \"end\": 161.164, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 161.164, \"end\": 161.404, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 161.404, \"end\": 161.524, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 161.524, \"end\": 161.644, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 161.644, \"end\": 161.804, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 161.804, \"end\": 162.685, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 430.667, \"end\": 431.067, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 431.067, \"end\": 431.247, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 431.247, \"end\": 431.428, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 431.428, \"end\": 431.648, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 431.648, \"end\": 431.888, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 431.888, \"end\": 432.048, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 432.048, \"end\": 432.549, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 432.549, \"end\": 433.109, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 433.109, \"end\": 433.229, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 433.229, \"end\": 433.349, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 433.349, \"end\": 433.469, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 433.469, \"end\": 433.69, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 433.69, \"end\": 433.71, \"score\": 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834.314, \"end\": 834.554, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 834.554, \"end\": 834.774, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 834.774, \"end\": 834.994, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 834.994, \"end\": 835.134, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 835.134, \"end\": 835.334, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 835.334, \"end\": 836.035, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 836.035, \"end\": 836.515, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 836.515, \"end\": 836.955, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"幣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 836.955, \"end\": 837.896, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 837.896, \"end\": 838.296, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 838.296, \"end\": 838.696, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": 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\"有\", \"start\": 852.044, \"end\": 852.544, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 852.544, \"end\": 852.844, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 852.844, \"end\": 853.264, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 853.264, \"end\": 853.585, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 853.585, \"end\": 853.605, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 853.605, \"end\": 853.625, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"謀\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,650 --> 00:00:05,713\n早安大家好我們先請顧部長請顧部長部長早是陳委員好我想先就軍購交付的議題來和部長做一個討論我們國防部透過辦理對美軍購的採購來籌獲各式作戰所需的相關武器裝備\n\n2\n00:00:26,908 --> 00:00:42,685\n這是我們在建構現代化及不對稱戰力上非常重要的一個工作但是就今天的專報安排的主題顯示在部分軍購案的執行以及裝備交運的進度上可能存在部分的疑義\n\n3\n00:00:43,766 --> 00:01:07,832\n那我想官部也必須在能夠公開的部分盡可能向國會也向所有的納稅義務人來說明清楚那先就近期在討論的美方延宕交付軍購的這個金額部分為部分來請教我們部長那這個有許多的這個報導\n\n4\n00:01:09,554 --> 00:01:37,157\n他標題都直接下縮有6000多億的這個台幣的部分這個金額還是還未交付那在美台商業協會的這個會長他表示是目前我們只有總值80億的美元的F16戰機計畫及另外一項金額不到10億美元的這個計畫有所延遲\n\n5\n00:01:38,783 --> 00:02:01,776\n那如果就國安部這邊提出有延宕的部分則有這個AMG-154C飛彈以及F16V還有MK48縱型魚雷三個案子所以這個實際上國安部目前所估算延宕的這個金額到底是多少那三個這個延宕案加起來的總額又是多少\n\n6\n00:02:03,187 --> 00:02:18,596\n跟委員報告因為之前有提到說六千多億的這個部分據我們了解這是那個卡托研究所他就美國對台的軍售案他支會國會的金額並不是延宕的金額這可能要\n\n7\n00:02:19,701 --> 00:02:38,021\n說明一下所以這個6千億這個部分金額是錯誤的沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的一個狀況那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員有提到的就是說最金額最大的當然就是F16BBlockWhiteDome這個有80億美金\n\n8\n00:02:38,962 --> 00:03:01,857\n那另外AGM1517這個大概是一億一千多萬美金然後MK48重型儀錬大概是一億七千七百多萬加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金大概現在有延宕的這個金額大概總額是所以就是跟六千億還是有差別嗎八十二億的話換算成不到三千億\n\n9\n00:03:11,687 --> 00:03:15,654\n呃...應該是不到...對啊,不到三...不到三千億嘛?\n\n10\n00:03:15,654 --> 00:03:17,117\n不到三千億,不到三千億\n\n11\n00:03:19,352 --> 00:03:48,251\n那我想另外就針對這個軍購交付延遲的部分先前我們國防部這邊也有說明會透過各式會議嚴密的這個管制那美方也以這個專案的方式來處理對台軍售交付延遲的問題那我們這邊應該也開出相關的這個清單交給對方了那這個部分我想請教部長現在美方專門處理對台軍售交付延遲的是哪一個單位\n\n12\n00:03:49,232 --> 00:04:10,886\n那這個單位只有針對已經延宕的這個案件還是對於所有未交付的案件都一併來做專案處理美國有成立一個叫做TigerTaskForce就是一個專案小組那是都來監管所有的軍售案的進度就美方的專責單位我們兩國也會藉由定期的會議\n\n13\n00:04:16,852 --> 00:04:43,121\n我們這邊也會有一個駐場集合的機師來督促這個廠商來依期程來產製交運好那除了這個交貨期程的部分另外一方面我們則是對於這個預算的使用部分來做一個討論所有軍購的這個付款都有一定的這個時程那這些案子一旦進到這個產線我們就得付錢那這也是\n\n14\n00:04:45,080 --> 00:05:08,172\n能夠這也是我們大家應該都能夠理解的啦但是如果對方在生產的進度不如預期的時候我們也應該要避免有過早把這個錢付出去的情形那先前部長曾經也回應說如果還沒有到應該要付款的時間點我們就不會付款啦齁縱使把錢匯出去也是\n\n15\n00:05:09,472 --> 00:05:31,418\n會到這個FRB的這個軍購帳戶當中也還是屬於國防部在控管的並會產生這個支息那針對這個問題我想請教部長我們現在付款的期程是怎麼定的又如何要求美方來修正這個期程確保我們的利益不受損我們大概是在\n\n16\n00:05:32,518 --> 00:05:56,678\n跟美方的軍購案大概從前置的備料跟生產線開始我們會這個就是依照這樣子的一個備料跟生產線的開始我們會付款那以F16B來講的話那因為後來他的交制的交運的這個就是期程有延宕所以我們從113年的第一季是不是\n\n17\n00:05:57,418 --> 00:06:06,629\n是不是第一劑113年第一劑開始我們就緩負了也就是說就沒有再負了這樣子\n\n18\n00:06:09,073 --> 00:06:26,763\n好這意思就是說一開始他因為要去備料然後要有一個生產線的建制這個我們是要付一筆錢那之後呢他要按他實際的產製的期程我們來交付那以F16B來看的話呢他因為他\n\n19\n00:06:28,004 --> 00:06:48,226\n沒有辦法完成交運所以我們就跟美方就協調就辦理緩護從113年的第一劑開始就沒有再復了現在就沒有再復了是那另外在113年度這個審計部的審計報告當中有指出我們暫存在FRB的\n\n20\n00:06:49,708 --> 00:07:13,710\n這個按款餘額相較於尚未完成這個共補品項資金額高出大概一億多的這個美元那有資金滯留於美方多年的情形那應該要請美方優先退還無需支付的這相關的款項那針對沒有需求的款項我們是否已經要求美方退回金額大概有多少\n\n21\n00:07:14,850 --> 00:07:24,756\n跟委員說明FRP就是美國聯邦儲備銀行這個帳戶是我們的帳戶在這個帳戶裡面它如果有支息也是屬於我們的\n\n22\n00:07:25,424 --> 00:07:48,651\n那現在有有有雙方有檢討這個等待這個待退的這個美金大概是兩億六千四百多萬那已經到目前為止大概退了四千八百多萬大概是快四千九百萬的美金剩下來還有兩億一千五百多萬的美金呢\n\n23\n00:07:49,782 --> 00:08:05,464\n我們會要跟美方有辦理一個帳戶的清整那他帳戶清整完畢以後也會陸續退還給我們好那這部分也請我們國防部就是如果有比較新的消息再跟我們所有的大眾說明清楚是好\n\n24\n00:08:06,105 --> 00:08:27,198\n那接下來我想針對有幾項武器的籌貨的部分來跟部長您做討論第一個是我們這個次增飛彈的部分在今年這個漢光演習我們也看到多次出現在官兵操作仁溪式次增飛彈的這個演練當中但國軍現有的應該是美軍先前\n\n25\n00:08:28,138 --> 00:08:53,908\n以軍事合作提供的這個裝備我們向美方採購的2621枚人西式飛彈接下來也會陸續交運到台灣那其中第一批500枚的人西式次增飛彈和這個發射系統是否確定能在年底前也就是下個月底前能夠交裝完成那後續因應各軍種的這個需求是否還有大量我們徵購的相關規劃我們\n\n26\n00:08:59,785 --> 00:09:11,233\n預期它會在今年的第四季來交付我們現在總共原來500枚現在再增加以後是2621枚\n\n27\n00:09:15,476 --> 00:09:39,984\n那我想我們現在希望它能夠這個現在它已經重新啟動這個自動化的產線逐漸趕上進度所以我們會在今年的第四季會獲得第一批之後我們陸續再會來應該會陸續來獲得那後續的500枚以外我們大概預計多久會全部交裝完成\n\n28\n00:09:41,979 --> 00:09:45,874\n呃我想有相關的這個啟程你要不要跟大家聊一下\n\n29\n00:09:47,210 --> 00:10:15,229\n鮑遠我們在目前我們既定的期程是到121年121對這個時間是比較就是當初訂到2121枚第二次發達出需求清單遞出去之後美方給我們的期程是到121但是目前我們已經持續跟美方協調在這個自動化產線開設之後能夠把期程再往前壓縮那後面我們就是依照美方交運的期程來修訂我們相關的這個採購文件好\n\n30\n00:10:16,496 --> 00:10:32,926\n那這個部分先前討論這個台美共同生產的可能性主要還是以這個無人載具為主那剛剛講的這個次增飛彈除了在美國生產以外他也在德國還有土耳其有開闢這個生產線那去年這個\n\n31\n00:10:34,787 --> 00:11:02,349\n曾經報導說想我們想爭取在台灣來組裝生產這個次增飛彈當時這個議題部長您也回應了沒有這個討論的存在那時隔一年我們剛剛講的這個時程的問題我想再請教部長針對次增飛彈合作的可能性存在後續有沒有可能在台灣來生產組裝的可能我想這個還需要有待跟美方進行溝通\n\n32\n00:11:03,846 --> 00:11:07,600\n所以現在還沒有一個具體的沒有一個具體的結論\n\n33\n00:11:09,864 --> 00:11:31,070\n那在上個會期行政院的這個施政報告當中我們看到今年期這個入伍一年期的這個義務役新兵會在八週新訓的期間接受無人機還有反裝甲火箭還有仁溪式自身飛彈等訓練課程那政府在年初預估今年會徵集約9839元的這個一年期的義務役\n\n34\n00:11:36,391 --> 00:11:58,806\n但是在我們不確定現有的這個人西式這個次增飛彈的數量而且也缺乏模擬器材的情況之下我們今年以來是如何來落實這個人西式次增飛彈它納入EWE新訓課程的一個規劃那對於這個訓練的裝備器材或是師資我們應該要如何來因應\n\n35\n00:12:00,247 --> 00:12:15,812\n向委員報告陸軍參謀長向您報告第一點我們在目前還沒有這個模擬器獲得的情況下我們是先由我們的兵診中心來依據新訓單位訓練的需求我們已經在今年訓練開始的時候就已經產製\n\n36\n00:12:16,952 --> 00:12:31,199\n那目前交付新訓單位來使用也訓了6000多人次這方面是沒有問題那後續我們會再尋商先來做一個小批量的採購模擬器那經過驗測合格之後我們會納入這個建案來獲得以上報告\n\n37\n00:12:32,139 --> 00:12:48,418\n那我們在官部的這個夜報當中也看到我們國防創新小組所規劃在明年籌貨仁溪市這個次增飛彈模擬器我想也是因應接下來這個新到貨的次增飛彈交裝之後我們必須提升的\n\n38\n00:12:49,119 --> 00:13:03,385\n整備整體的訓練我想再請教部長有關模擬器預計籌貨的時程表要交付給什麼單位就剛剛我們參謀長講的這個部分我們國防部是否有一個更明確的一個規劃的計畫\n\n39\n00:13:06,938 --> 00:13:27,956\n像委員報告這個我們在這個DIO他所獲得的我們部隊驗測之後我們會分別交付給這個兵艦訓練單位還有駐地單位和新訓旅的駐地的這個有配附刺針飛彈單位還有新訓旅來讓他們滿足訓練的需求詳細的數據下去可以提供給委員好\n\n40\n00:13:29,437 --> 00:13:47,049\n好那就以上我們相關這個武器籌貨的部分也請我們國防部持續的追蹤對我們跟美方會持續來加強然後來趕上這些相關的這些期程好儘早讓我們所購得的武器能夠\n\n41\n00:13:49,071 --> 00:14:13,625\n這個放在規劃的一個位置上對像剛剛提到的那個82里面最大的大概2400多億台幣的這個F16的部分我們有看到美方加進行這個努力那兩半來加來進行這個趕制那現在在線的主帳已經有50架了一個F16謝謝部長謝謝參謀長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1650\t5713\t早安 大家好我們先請顧部長請顧部長部長早是 陳委員好我想先就軍購交付的議題來和部長做一個討論我們國防部透過辦理對美軍購的採購來籌獲各式作戰所需的相關武器裝備\n26908\t42685\t這是我們在建構現代化及不對稱戰力上非常重要的一個工作但是就今天的專報安排的主題顯示在部分軍購案的執行以及裝備交運的進度上可能存在部分的疑義\n43766\t67832\t那我想官部也必須在能夠公開的部分盡可能向國會也向所有的納稅義務人來說明清楚那先就近期在討論的美方延宕交付軍購的這個金額部分為部分來請教我們部長那這個有許多的這個報導\n69554\t97157\t他標題都直接下縮有6000多億的這個台幣的部分這個金額還是還未交付那在美台商業協會的這個會長他表示是目前我們只有總值80億的美元的F16戰機計畫及另外一項金額不到10億美元的這個計畫有所延遲\n98783\t121776\t那如果就國安部這邊提出有延宕的部分則有這個AMG-154C飛彈以及F16V還有MK48縱型魚雷三個案子所以這個實際上國安部目前所估算延宕的這個金額到底是多少那三個這個延宕案加起來的總額又是多少\n123187\t138596\t跟委員報告 因為之前有提到說六千多億的這個部分 據我們了解這是那個卡托研究所他就美國對台的軍售案他支會國會的金額 並不是延宕的金額 這可能要\n139701\t158021\t說明一下 所以這個6千億這個部分金額是錯誤的沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的一個狀況那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員有提到的就是說最金額最大的當然就是F16B Block White Dome這個有80億美金\n158962\t181857\t那另外AGM1517這個大概是一億一千多萬美金然後MK48重型儀錬大概是一億七千七百多萬加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金大概現在有延宕的這個金額大概總額是所以就是跟六千億還是有差別嗎八十二億的話換算成不到三千億\n191687\t195654\t呃...應該是不到...對啊,不到三...不到三千億嘛?\n195654\t197117\t不到三千億,不到三千億\n199352\t228251\t那我想另外就針對這個軍購交付延遲的部分先前我們國防部這邊也有說明會透過各式會議嚴密的這個管制那美方也以這個專案的方式來處理對台軍售交付延遲的問題那我們這邊應該也開出相關的這個清單交給對方了那這個部分我想請教部長現在美方專門處理對台軍售交付延遲的是哪一個單位\n229232\t250886\t那這個單位只有針對已經延宕的這個案件還是對於所有未交付的案件都一併來做專案處理美國有成立一個叫做Tiger Task Force就是一個專案小組那是都來監管所有的軍售案的進度就美方的專責單位我們兩國也會藉由定期的會議\n256852\t283121\t我們這邊也會有一個駐場集合的機師來督促這個廠商來依期程來產製交運好那除了這個交貨期程的部分另外一方面我們則是對於這個預算的使用部分來做一個討論所有軍購的這個付款都有一定的這個時程那這些案子一旦進到這個產線我們就得付錢那這也是\n285080\t308172\t能夠 這也是我們大家應該都能夠理解的啦但是如果對方在生產的進度不如預期的時候我們也應該要避免有過早把這個錢付出去的情形那先前部長曾經也回應說如果還沒有到應該要付款的時間點我們就不會付款啦齁縱使把錢匯出去也是\n309472\t331418\t會到這個FRB的這個軍購帳戶當中也還是屬於國防部在控管的並會產生這個支息那針對這個問題我想請教部長我們現在付款的期程是怎麼定的又如何要求美方來修正這個期程確保我們的利益不受損我們大概是在\n332518\t356678\t跟美方的軍購案大概從前置的備料跟生產線開始我們會這個就是依照這樣子的一個備料跟生產線的開始我們會付款那以F16B來講的話那因為後來他的交制的交運的這個就是期程有延宕所以我們從113年的第一季是不是\n357418\t366629\t是不是第一劑113年第一劑開始我們就緩負了也就是說就沒有再負了這樣子\n369073\t386763\t好這意思就是說一開始他因為要去備料然後要有一個生產線的建制這個我們是要付一筆錢那之後呢他要按他實際的產製的期程我們來交付那以F16B來看的話呢他因為他\n388004\t408226\t沒有辦法完成交運所以我們就跟美方就協調就辦理緩護從113年的第一劑開始就沒有再復了現在就沒有再復了 是那另外在113年度這個審計部的審計報告當中有指出我們暫存在FRB的\n409708\t433710\t這個按款餘額相較於尚未完成這個共補品項資金額高出大概一億多的這個美元那有資金滯留於美方多年的情形那應該要請美方優先退還無需支付的這相關的款項那針對沒有需求的款項我們是否已經要求美方退回金額大概有多少\n434850\t444756\t跟委員說明FRP就是美國聯邦儲備銀行這個帳戶是我們的帳戶在這個帳戶裡面它如果有支息也是屬於我們的\n445424\t468651\t那現在有有有雙方有檢討這個等待這個待退的這個美金大概是兩億六千四百多萬那已經到目前為止大概退了四千八百多萬大概是快四千九百萬的美金剩下來還有兩億一千五百多萬的美金呢\n469782\t485464\t我們會要跟美方有辦理一個帳戶的清整那他帳戶清整完畢以後也會陸續退還給我們好那這部分也請我們國防部就是如果有比較新的消息再跟我們所有的大眾說明清楚是好\n486105\t507198\t那接下來我想針對有幾項武器的籌貨的部分來跟部長您做討論第一個是我們這個次增飛彈的部分在今年這個漢光演習我們也看到多次出現在官兵操作仁溪式次增飛彈的這個演練當中但國軍現有的應該是美軍先前\n508138\t533908\t以軍事合作提供的這個裝備我們向美方採購的2621枚人西式飛彈接下來也會陸續交運到台灣那其中第一批500枚的人西式次增飛彈和這個發射系統是否確定能在年底前也就是下個月底前能夠交裝完成那後續因應各軍種的這個需求是否還有大量我們徵購的相關規劃我們\n539785\t551233\t預期它會在今年的第四季來交付我們現在總共原來500枚現在再增加以後是2621枚\n555476\t579984\t那我想我們現在希望它能夠這個現在它已經重新啟動這個自動化的產線逐漸趕上進度所以我們會在今年的第四季會獲得第一批之後我們陸續再會來應該會陸續來獲得那後續的500枚以外我們大概預計多久會全部交裝完成\n581979\t585874\t呃 我想有相關的這個啟程你要不要跟大家聊一下\n587210\t615229\t鮑遠 我們在目前我們既定的期程是到121年121對 這個時間是比較就是當初訂到2121枚第二次發達出需求清單遞出去之後美方給我們的期程是到121但是目前我們已經持續跟美方協調在這個自動化產線開設之後能夠把期程再往前壓縮那後面我們就是依照美方交運的期程來修訂我們相關的這個採購文件好\n616496\t632926\t那這個部分先前討論這個台美共同生產的可能性主要還是以這個無人載具為主那剛剛講的這個次增飛彈除了在美國生產以外他也在德國還有土耳其有開闢這個生產線那去年這個\n634787\t662349\t曾經報導說想我們想爭取在台灣來組裝生產這個次增飛彈當時這個議題部長您也回應了沒有這個討論的存在那時隔一年我們剛剛講的這個時程的問題我想再請教部長針對次增飛彈合作的可能性存在後續有沒有可能在台灣來生產組裝的可能我想這個還需要有待跟美方進行溝通\n663846\t667600\t所以現在還沒有一個具體的沒有一個具體的結論\n669864\t691070\t那在上個會期行政院的這個施政報告當中我們看到今年期這個入伍一年期的這個義務役新兵會在八週新訓的期間接受無人機還有反裝甲火箭還有仁溪式自身飛彈等訓練課程那政府在年初預估今年會徵集約9839元的這個一年期的義務役\n696391\t718806\t但是在我們不確定現有的這個人西式這個次增飛彈的數量而且也缺乏模擬器材的情況之下我們今年以來是如何來落實這個人西式次增飛彈它納入EWE新訓課程的一個規劃那對於這個訓練的裝備器材或是師資我們應該要如何來因應\n720247\t735812\t向委員報告陸軍參謀長向您報告第一點我們在目前還沒有這個模擬器獲得的情況下我們是先由我們的兵診中心來依據新訓單位訓練的需求我們已經在今年訓練開始的時候就已經產製\n736952\t751199\t那目前交付新訓單位來使用也訓了6000多人次這方面是沒有問題那後續我們會再尋商先來做一個小批量的採購模擬器那經過驗測合格之後我們會納入這個建案來獲得以上報告\n752139\t768418\t那我們在官部的這個夜報當中也看到我們國防創新小組所規劃在明年籌貨仁溪市這個次增飛彈模擬器我想也是因應接下來這個新到貨的次增飛彈交裝之後我們必須提升的\n769119\t783385\t整備整體的訓練我想再請教部長有關模擬器預計籌貨的時程表要交付給什麼單位就剛剛我們參謀長講的這個部分我們國防部是否有一個更明確的一個規劃的計畫\n786938\t807956\t像委員報告這個我們在這個DIO他所獲得的我們部隊驗測之後我們會分別交付給這個兵艦訓練單位還有駐地單位和新訓旅的駐地的這個有配附刺針飛彈單位還有新訓旅來讓他們滿足訓練的需求詳細的數據下去可以提供給委員好\n809437\t827049\t好 那就以上我們相關這個武器籌貨的部分也請我們國防部持續的追蹤對 我們跟美方會持續來加強然後來趕上這些相關的這些期程好 儘早讓我們所購得的武器能夠\n829071\t853625\t這個放在規劃的一個位置上對 像剛剛提到的那個82里面最大的大概2400多億台幣的這個F16的部分我們有看到美方加進行這個努力那兩半來加來進行這個趕制那現在在線的主帳已經有50架了一個F16謝謝部長 謝謝參謀長\n","txt":"早安 大家好我們先請顧部長請顧部長部長早是 陳委員好我想先就軍購交付的議題來和部長做一個討論我們國防部透過辦理對美軍購的採購來籌獲各式作戰所需的相關武器裝備\n這是我們在建構現代化及不對稱戰力上非常重要的一個工作但是就今天的專報安排的主題顯示在部分軍購案的執行以及裝備交運的進度上可能存在部分的疑義\n那我想官部也必須在能夠公開的部分盡可能向國會也向所有的納稅義務人來說明清楚那先就近期在討論的美方延宕交付軍購的這個金額部分為部分來請教我們部長那這個有許多的這個報導\n他標題都直接下縮有6000多億的這個台幣的部分這個金額還是還未交付那在美台商業協會的這個會長他表示是目前我們只有總值80億的美元的F16戰機計畫及另外一項金額不到10億美元的這個計畫有所延遲\n那如果就國安部這邊提出有延宕的部分則有這個AMG-154C飛彈以及F16V還有MK48縱型魚雷三個案子所以這個實際上國安部目前所估算延宕的這個金額到底是多少那三個這個延宕案加起來的總額又是多少\n跟委員報告 因為之前有提到說六千多億的這個部分 據我們了解這是那個卡托研究所他就美國對台的軍售案他支會國會的金額 並不是延宕的金額 這可能要\n說明一下 所以這個6千億這個部分金額是錯誤的沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的一個狀況那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員有提到的就是說最金額最大的當然就是F16B Block White Dome這個有80億美金\n那另外AGM1517這個大概是一億一千多萬美金然後MK48重型儀錬大概是一億七千七百多萬加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金大概現在有延宕的這個金額大概總額是所以就是跟六千億還是有差別嗎八十二億的話換算成不到三千億\n呃...應該是不到...對啊,不到三...不到三千億嘛?\n不到三千億,不到三千億\n那我想另外就針對這個軍購交付延遲的部分先前我們國防部這邊也有說明會透過各式會議嚴密的這個管制那美方也以這個專案的方式來處理對台軍售交付延遲的問題那我們這邊應該也開出相關的這個清單交給對方了那這個部分我想請教部長現在美方專門處理對台軍售交付延遲的是哪一個單位\n那這個單位只有針對已經延宕的這個案件還是對於所有未交付的案件都一併來做專案處理美國有成立一個叫做Tiger Task Force就是一個專案小組那是都來監管所有的軍售案的進度就美方的專責單位我們兩國也會藉由定期的會議\n我們這邊也會有一個駐場集合的機師來督促這個廠商來依期程來產製交運好那除了這個交貨期程的部分另外一方面我們則是對於這個預算的使用部分來做一個討論所有軍購的這個付款都有一定的這個時程那這些案子一旦進到這個產線我們就得付錢那這也是\n能夠 這也是我們大家應該都能夠理解的啦但是如果對方在生產的進度不如預期的時候我們也應該要避免有過早把這個錢付出去的情形那先前部長曾經也回應說如果還沒有到應該要付款的時間點我們就不會付款啦齁縱使把錢匯出去也是\n會到這個FRB的這個軍購帳戶當中也還是屬於國防部在控管的並會產生這個支息那針對這個問題我想請教部長我們現在付款的期程是怎麼定的又如何要求美方來修正這個期程確保我們的利益不受損我們大概是在\n跟美方的軍購案大概從前置的備料跟生產線開始我們會這個就是依照這樣子的一個備料跟生產線的開始我們會付款那以F16B來講的話那因為後來他的交制的交運的這個就是期程有延宕所以我們從113年的第一季是不是\n是不是第一劑113年第一劑開始我們就緩負了也就是說就沒有再負了這樣子\n好這意思就是說一開始他因為要去備料然後要有一個生產線的建制這個我們是要付一筆錢那之後呢他要按他實際的產製的期程我們來交付那以F16B來看的話呢他因為他\n沒有辦法完成交運所以我們就跟美方就協調就辦理緩護從113年的第一劑開始就沒有再復了現在就沒有再復了 是那另外在113年度這個審計部的審計報告當中有指出我們暫存在FRB的\n這個按款餘額相較於尚未完成這個共補品項資金額高出大概一億多的這個美元那有資金滯留於美方多年的情形那應該要請美方優先退還無需支付的這相關的款項那針對沒有需求的款項我們是否已經要求美方退回金額大概有多少\n跟委員說明FRP就是美國聯邦儲備銀行這個帳戶是我們的帳戶在這個帳戶裡面它如果有支息也是屬於我們的\n那現在有有有雙方有檢討這個等待這個待退的這個美金大概是兩億六千四百多萬那已經到目前為止大概退了四千八百多萬大概是快四千九百萬的美金剩下來還有兩億一千五百多萬的美金呢\n我們會要跟美方有辦理一個帳戶的清整那他帳戶清整完畢以後也會陸續退還給我們好那這部分也請我們國防部就是如果有比較新的消息再跟我們所有的大眾說明清楚是好\n那接下來我想針對有幾項武器的籌貨的部分來跟部長您做討論第一個是我們這個次增飛彈的部分在今年這個漢光演習我們也看到多次出現在官兵操作仁溪式次增飛彈的這個演練當中但國軍現有的應該是美軍先前\n以軍事合作提供的這個裝備我們向美方採購的2621枚人西式飛彈接下來也會陸續交運到台灣那其中第一批500枚的人西式次增飛彈和這個發射系統是否確定能在年底前也就是下個月底前能夠交裝完成那後續因應各軍種的這個需求是否還有大量我們徵購的相關規劃我們\n預期它會在今年的第四季來交付我們現在總共原來500枚現在再增加以後是2621枚\n那我想我們現在希望它能夠這個現在它已經重新啟動這個自動化的產線逐漸趕上進度所以我們會在今年的第四季會獲得第一批之後我們陸續再會來應該會陸續來獲得那後續的500枚以外我們大概預計多久會全部交裝完成\n呃 我想有相關的這個啟程你要不要跟大家聊一下\n鮑遠 我們在目前我們既定的期程是到121年121對 這個時間是比較就是當初訂到2121枚第二次發達出需求清單遞出去之後美方給我們的期程是到121但是目前我們已經持續跟美方協調在這個自動化產線開設之後能夠把期程再往前壓縮那後面我們就是依照美方交運的期程來修訂我們相關的這個採購文件好\n那這個部分先前討論這個台美共同生產的可能性主要還是以這個無人載具為主那剛剛講的這個次增飛彈除了在美國生產以外他也在德國還有土耳其有開闢這個生產線那去年這個\n曾經報導說想我們想爭取在台灣來組裝生產這個次增飛彈當時這個議題部長您也回應了沒有這個討論的存在那時隔一年我們剛剛講的這個時程的問題我想再請教部長針對次增飛彈合作的可能性存在後續有沒有可能在台灣來生產組裝的可能我想這個還需要有待跟美方進行溝通\n所以現在還沒有一個具體的沒有一個具體的結論\n那在上個會期行政院的這個施政報告當中我們看到今年期這個入伍一年期的這個義務役新兵會在八週新訓的期間接受無人機還有反裝甲火箭還有仁溪式自身飛彈等訓練課程那政府在年初預估今年會徵集約9839元的這個一年期的義務役\n但是在我們不確定現有的這個人西式這個次增飛彈的數量而且也缺乏模擬器材的情況之下我們今年以來是如何來落實這個人西式次增飛彈它納入EWE新訓課程的一個規劃那對於這個訓練的裝備器材或是師資我們應該要如何來因應\n向委員報告陸軍參謀長向您報告第一點我們在目前還沒有這個模擬器獲得的情況下我們是先由我們的兵診中心來依據新訓單位訓練的需求我們已經在今年訓練開始的時候就已經產製\n那目前交付新訓單位來使用也訓了6000多人次這方面是沒有問題那後續我們會再尋商先來做一個小批量的採購模擬器那經過驗測合格之後我們會納入這個建案來獲得以上報告\n那我們在官部的這個夜報當中也看到我們國防創新小組所規劃在明年籌貨仁溪市這個次增飛彈模擬器我想也是因應接下來這個新到貨的次增飛彈交裝之後我們必須提升的\n整備整體的訓練我想再請教部長有關模擬器預計籌貨的時程表要交付給什麼單位就剛剛我們參謀長講的這個部分我們國防部是否有一個更明確的一個規劃的計畫\n像委員報告這個我們在這個DIO他所獲得的我們部隊驗測之後我們會分別交付給這個兵艦訓練單位還有駐地單位和新訓旅的駐地的這個有配附刺針飛彈單位還有新訓旅來讓他們滿足訓練的需求詳細的數據下去可以提供給委員好\n好 那就以上我們相關這個武器籌貨的部分也請我們國防部持續的追蹤對 我們跟美方會持續來加強然後來趕上這些相關的這些期程好 儘早讓我們所購得的武器能夠\n這個放在規劃的一個位置上對 像剛剛提到的那個82里面最大的大概2400多億台幣的這個F16的部分我們有看到美方加進行這個努力那兩半來加來進行這個趕制那現在在線的主帳已經有50架了一個F16謝謝部長 謝謝參謀長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.650 --> 00:05.713\n早安大家好我們先請顧部長請顧部長部長早是陳委員好我想先就軍購交付的議題來和部長做一個討論我們國防部透過辦理對美軍購的採購來籌獲各式作戰所需的相關武器裝備\n\n00:26.908 --> 00:42.685\n這是我們在建構現代化及不對稱戰力上非常重要的一個工作但是就今天的專報安排的主題顯示在部分軍購案的執行以及裝備交運的進度上可能存在部分的疑義\n\n00:43.766 --> 01:07.832\n那我想官部也必須在能夠公開的部分盡可能向國會也向所有的納稅義務人來說明清楚那先就近期在討論的美方延宕交付軍購的這個金額部分為部分來請教我們部長那這個有許多的這個報導\n\n01:09.554 --> 01:37.157\n他標題都直接下縮有6000多億的這個台幣的部分這個金額還是還未交付那在美台商業協會的這個會長他表示是目前我們只有總值80億的美元的F16戰機計畫及另外一項金額不到10億美元的這個計畫有所延遲\n\n01:38.783 --> 02:01.776\n那如果就國安部這邊提出有延宕的部分則有這個AMG-154C飛彈以及F16V還有MK48縱型魚雷三個案子所以這個實際上國安部目前所估算延宕的這個金額到底是多少那三個這個延宕案加起來的總額又是多少\n\n02:03.187 --> 02:18.596\n跟委員報告因為之前有提到說六千多億的這個部分據我們了解這是那個卡托研究所他就美國對台的軍售案他支會國會的金額並不是延宕的金額這可能要\n\n02:19.701 --> 02:38.021\n說明一下所以這個6千億這個部分金額是錯誤的沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的一個狀況那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員有提到的就是說最金額最大的當然就是F16BBlockWhiteDome這個有80億美金\n\n02:38.962 --> 03:01.857\n那另外AGM1517這個大概是一億一千多萬美金然後MK48重型儀錬大概是一億七千七百多萬加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金大概現在有延宕的這個金額大概總額是所以就是跟六千億還是有差別嗎八十二億的話換算成不到三千億\n\n03:11.687 --> 03:15.654\n呃...應該是不到...對啊,不到三...不到三千億嘛?\n\n03:15.654 --> 03:17.117\n不到三千億,不到三千億\n\n03:19.352 --> 03:48.251\n那我想另外就針對這個軍購交付延遲的部分先前我們國防部這邊也有說明會透過各式會議嚴密的這個管制那美方也以這個專案的方式來處理對台軍售交付延遲的問題那我們這邊應該也開出相關的這個清單交給對方了那這個部分我想請教部長現在美方專門處理對台軍售交付延遲的是哪一個單位\n\n03:49.232 --> 04:10.886\n那這個單位只有針對已經延宕的這個案件還是對於所有未交付的案件都一併來做專案處理美國有成立一個叫做TigerTaskForce就是一個專案小組那是都來監管所有的軍售案的進度就美方的專責單位我們兩國也會藉由定期的會議\n\n04:16.852 --> 04:43.121\n我們這邊也會有一個駐場集合的機師來督促這個廠商來依期程來產製交運好那除了這個交貨期程的部分另外一方面我們則是對於這個預算的使用部分來做一個討論所有軍購的這個付款都有一定的這個時程那這些案子一旦進到這個產線我們就得付錢那這也是\n\n04:45.080 --> 05:08.172\n能夠這也是我們大家應該都能夠理解的啦但是如果對方在生產的進度不如預期的時候我們也應該要避免有過早把這個錢付出去的情形那先前部長曾經也回應說如果還沒有到應該要付款的時間點我們就不會付款啦齁縱使把錢匯出去也是\n\n05:09.472 --> 05:31.418\n會到這個FRB的這個軍購帳戶當中也還是屬於國防部在控管的並會產生這個支息那針對這個問題我想請教部長我們現在付款的期程是怎麼定的又如何要求美方來修正這個期程確保我們的利益不受損我們大概是在\n\n05:32.518 --> 05:56.678\n跟美方的軍購案大概從前置的備料跟生產線開始我們會這個就是依照這樣子的一個備料跟生產線的開始我們會付款那以F16B來講的話那因為後來他的交制的交運的這個就是期程有延宕所以我們從113年的第一季是不是\n\n05:57.418 --> 06:06.629\n是不是第一劑113年第一劑開始我們就緩負了也就是說就沒有再負了這樣子\n\n06:09.073 --> 06:26.763\n好這意思就是說一開始他因為要去備料然後要有一個生產線的建制這個我們是要付一筆錢那之後呢他要按他實際的產製的期程我們來交付那以F16B來看的話呢他因為他\n\n06:28.004 --> 06:48.226\n沒有辦法完成交運所以我們就跟美方就協調就辦理緩護從113年的第一劑開始就沒有再復了現在就沒有再復了是那另外在113年度這個審計部的審計報告當中有指出我們暫存在FRB的\n\n06:49.708 --> 07:13.710\n這個按款餘額相較於尚未完成這個共補品項資金額高出大概一億多的這個美元那有資金滯留於美方多年的情形那應該要請美方優先退還無需支付的這相關的款項那針對沒有需求的款項我們是否已經要求美方退回金額大概有多少\n\n07:14.850 --> 07:24.756\n跟委員說明FRP就是美國聯邦儲備銀行這個帳戶是我們的帳戶在這個帳戶裡面它如果有支息也是屬於我們的\n\n07:25.424 --> 07:48.651\n那現在有有有雙方有檢討這個等待這個待退的這個美金大概是兩億六千四百多萬那已經到目前為止大概退了四千八百多萬大概是快四千九百萬的美金剩下來還有兩億一千五百多萬的美金呢\n\n07:49.782 --> 08:05.464\n我們會要跟美方有辦理一個帳戶的清整那他帳戶清整完畢以後也會陸續退還給我們好那這部分也請我們國防部就是如果有比較新的消息再跟我們所有的大眾說明清楚是好\n\n08:06.105 --> 08:27.198\n那接下來我想針對有幾項武器的籌貨的部分來跟部長您做討論第一個是我們這個次增飛彈的部分在今年這個漢光演習我們也看到多次出現在官兵操作仁溪式次增飛彈的這個演練當中但國軍現有的應該是美軍先前\n\n08:28.138 --> 08:53.908\n以軍事合作提供的這個裝備我們向美方採購的2621枚人西式飛彈接下來也會陸續交運到台灣那其中第一批500枚的人西式次增飛彈和這個發射系統是否確定能在年底前也就是下個月底前能夠交裝完成那後續因應各軍種的這個需求是否還有大量我們徵購的相關規劃我們\n\n08:59.785 --> 09:11.233\n預期它會在今年的第四季來交付我們現在總共原來500枚現在再增加以後是2621枚\n\n09:15.476 --> 09:39.984\n那我想我們現在希望它能夠這個現在它已經重新啟動這個自動化的產線逐漸趕上進度所以我們會在今年的第四季會獲得第一批之後我們陸續再會來應該會陸續來獲得那後續的500枚以外我們大概預計多久會全部交裝完成\n\n09:41.979 --> 09:45.874\n呃我想有相關的這個啟程你要不要跟大家聊一下\n\n09:47.210 --> 10:15.229\n鮑遠我們在目前我們既定的期程是到121年121對這個時間是比較就是當初訂到2121枚第二次發達出需求清單遞出去之後美方給我們的期程是到121但是目前我們已經持續跟美方協調在這個自動化產線開設之後能夠把期程再往前壓縮那後面我們就是依照美方交運的期程來修訂我們相關的這個採購文件好\n\n10:16.496 --> 10:32.926\n那這個部分先前討論這個台美共同生產的可能性主要還是以這個無人載具為主那剛剛講的這個次增飛彈除了在美國生產以外他也在德國還有土耳其有開闢這個生產線那去年這個\n\n10:34.787 --> 11:02.349\n曾經報導說想我們想爭取在台灣來組裝生產這個次增飛彈當時這個議題部長您也回應了沒有這個討論的存在那時隔一年我們剛剛講的這個時程的問題我想再請教部長針對次增飛彈合作的可能性存在後續有沒有可能在台灣來生產組裝的可能我想這個還需要有待跟美方進行溝通\n\n11:03.846 --> 11:07.600\n所以現在還沒有一個具體的沒有一個具體的結論\n\n11:09.864 --> 11:31.070\n那在上個會期行政院的這個施政報告當中我們看到今年期這個入伍一年期的這個義務役新兵會在八週新訓的期間接受無人機還有反裝甲火箭還有仁溪式自身飛彈等訓練課程那政府在年初預估今年會徵集約9839元的這個一年期的義務役\n\n11:36.391 --> 11:58.806\n但是在我們不確定現有的這個人西式這個次增飛彈的數量而且也缺乏模擬器材的情況之下我們今年以來是如何來落實這個人西式次增飛彈它納入EWE新訓課程的一個規劃那對於這個訓練的裝備器材或是師資我們應該要如何來因應\n\n12:00.247 --> 12:15.812\n向委員報告陸軍參謀長向您報告第一點我們在目前還沒有這個模擬器獲得的情況下我們是先由我們的兵診中心來依據新訓單位訓練的需求我們已經在今年訓練開始的時候就已經產製\n\n12:16.952 --> 12:31.199\n那目前交付新訓單位來使用也訓了6000多人次這方面是沒有問題那後續我們會再尋商先來做一個小批量的採購模擬器那經過驗測合格之後我們會納入這個建案來獲得以上報告\n\n12:32.139 --> 12:48.418\n那我們在官部的這個夜報當中也看到我們國防創新小組所規劃在明年籌貨仁溪市這個次增飛彈模擬器我想也是因應接下來這個新到貨的次增飛彈交裝之後我們必須提升的\n\n12:49.119 --> 13:03.385\n整備整體的訓練我想再請教部長有關模擬器預計籌貨的時程表要交付給什麼單位就剛剛我們參謀長講的這個部分我們國防部是否有一個更明確的一個規劃的計畫\n\n13:06.938 --> 13:27.956\n像委員報告這個我們在這個DIO他所獲得的我們部隊驗測之後我們會分別交付給這個兵艦訓練單位還有駐地單位和新訓旅的駐地的這個有配附刺針飛彈單位還有新訓旅來讓他們滿足訓練的需求詳細的數據下去可以提供給委員好\n\n13:29.437 --> 13:47.049\n好那就以上我們相關這個武器籌貨的部分也請我們國防部持續的追蹤對我們跟美方會持續來加強然後來趕上這些相關的這些期程好儘早讓我們所購得的武器能夠\n\n13:49.071 --> 14:13.625\n這個放在規劃的一個位置上對像剛剛提到的那個82里面最大的大概2400多億台幣的這個F16的部分我們有看到美方加進行這個努力那兩半來加來進行這個趕制那現在在線的主帳已經有50架了一個F16謝謝部長謝謝參謀長\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.65,"end":5.713,"text":"早安 大家好我們先請顧部長請顧部長部長早是 陳委員好我想先就軍購交付的議題來和部長做一個討論我們國防部透過辦理對美軍購的採購來籌獲各式作戰所需的相關武器裝備"},{"start":26.908,"end":42.685,"text":"這是我們在建構現代化及不對稱戰力上非常重要的一個工作但是就今天的專報安排的主題顯示在部分軍購案的執行以及裝備交運的進度上可能存在部分的疑義"},{"start":43.766,"end":67.832,"text":"那我想官部也必須在能夠公開的部分盡可能向國會也向所有的納稅義務人來說明清楚那先就近期在討論的美方延宕交付軍購的這個金額部分為部分來請教我們部長那這個有許多的這個報導"},{"start":69.554,"end":97.157,"text":"他標題都直接下縮有6000多億的這個台幣的部分這個金額還是還未交付那在美台商業協會的這個會長他表示是目前我們只有總值80億的美元的F16戰機計畫及另外一項金額不到10億美元的這個計畫有所延遲"},{"start":98.783,"end":121.776,"text":"那如果就國安部這邊提出有延宕的部分則有這個AMG-154C飛彈以及F16V還有MK48縱型魚雷三個案子所以這個實際上國安部目前所估算延宕的這個金額到底是多少那三個這個延宕案加起來的總額又是多少"},{"start":123.187,"end":138.596,"text":"跟委員報告 因為之前有提到說六千多億的這個部分 據我們了解這是那個卡托研究所他就美國對台的軍售案他支會國會的金額 並不是延宕的金額 這可能要"},{"start":139.701,"end":158.021,"text":"說明一下 所以這個6千億這個部分金額是錯誤的沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的一個狀況那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員有提到的就是說最金額最大的當然就是F16B Block White Dome這個有80億美金"},{"start":158.962,"end":181.857,"text":"那另外AGM1517這個大概是一億一千多萬美金然後MK48重型儀錬大概是一億七千七百多萬加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金大概現在有延宕的這個金額大概總額是所以就是跟六千億還是有差別嗎八十二億的話換算成不到三千億"},{"start":191.687,"end":195.654,"text":"呃...應該是不到...對啊,不到三...不到三千億嘛?"},{"start":195.654,"end":197.117,"text":"不到三千億,不到三千億"},{"start":199.352,"end":228.251,"text":"那我想另外就針對這個軍購交付延遲的部分先前我們國防部這邊也有說明會透過各式會議嚴密的這個管制那美方也以這個專案的方式來處理對台軍售交付延遲的問題那我們這邊應該也開出相關的這個清單交給對方了那這個部分我想請教部長現在美方專門處理對台軍售交付延遲的是哪一個單位"},{"start":229.232,"end":250.886,"text":"那這個單位只有針對已經延宕的這個案件還是對於所有未交付的案件都一併來做專案處理美國有成立一個叫做Tiger Task Force就是一個專案小組那是都來監管所有的軍售案的進度就美方的專責單位我們兩國也會藉由定期的會議"},{"start":256.852,"end":283.121,"text":"我們這邊也會有一個駐場集合的機師來督促這個廠商來依期程來產製交運好那除了這個交貨期程的部分另外一方面我們則是對於這個預算的使用部分來做一個討論所有軍購的這個付款都有一定的這個時程那這些案子一旦進到這個產線我們就得付錢那這也是"},{"start":285.08,"end":308.172,"text":"能夠 這也是我們大家應該都能夠理解的啦但是如果對方在生產的進度不如預期的時候我們也應該要避免有過早把這個錢付出去的情形那先前部長曾經也回應說如果還沒有到應該要付款的時間點我們就不會付款啦齁縱使把錢匯出去也是"},{"start":309.472,"end":331.418,"text":"會到這個FRB的這個軍購帳戶當中也還是屬於國防部在控管的並會產生這個支息那針對這個問題我想請教部長我們現在付款的期程是怎麼定的又如何要求美方來修正這個期程確保我們的利益不受損我們大概是在"},{"start":332.518,"end":356.678,"text":"跟美方的軍購案大概從前置的備料跟生產線開始我們會這個就是依照這樣子的一個備料跟生產線的開始我們會付款那以F16B來講的話那因為後來他的交制的交運的這個就是期程有延宕所以我們從113年的第一季是不是"},{"start":357.418,"end":366.629,"text":"是不是第一劑113年第一劑開始我們就緩負了也就是說就沒有再負了這樣子"},{"start":369.073,"end":386.763,"text":"好這意思就是說一開始他因為要去備料然後要有一個生產線的建制這個我們是要付一筆錢那之後呢他要按他實際的產製的期程我們來交付那以F16B來看的話呢他因為他"},{"start":388.004,"end":408.226,"text":"沒有辦法完成交運所以我們就跟美方就協調就辦理緩護從113年的第一劑開始就沒有再復了現在就沒有再復了 是那另外在113年度這個審計部的審計報告當中有指出我們暫存在FRB的"},{"start":409.708,"end":433.71,"text":"這個按款餘額相較於尚未完成這個共補品項資金額高出大概一億多的這個美元那有資金滯留於美方多年的情形那應該要請美方優先退還無需支付的這相關的款項那針對沒有需求的款項我們是否已經要求美方退回金額大概有多少"},{"start":434.85,"end":444.756,"text":"跟委員說明FRP就是美國聯邦儲備銀行這個帳戶是我們的帳戶在這個帳戶裡面它如果有支息也是屬於我們的"},{"start":445.424,"end":468.651,"text":"那現在有有有雙方有檢討這個等待這個待退的這個美金大概是兩億六千四百多萬那已經到目前為止大概退了四千八百多萬大概是快四千九百萬的美金剩下來還有兩億一千五百多萬的美金呢"},{"start":469.782,"end":485.464,"text":"我們會要跟美方有辦理一個帳戶的清整那他帳戶清整完畢以後也會陸續退還給我們好那這部分也請我們國防部就是如果有比較新的消息再跟我們所有的大眾說明清楚是好"},{"start":486.105,"end":507.198,"text":"那接下來我想針對有幾項武器的籌貨的部分來跟部長您做討論第一個是我們這個次增飛彈的部分在今年這個漢光演習我們也看到多次出現在官兵操作仁溪式次增飛彈的這個演練當中但國軍現有的應該是美軍先前"},{"start":508.138,"end":533.908,"text":"以軍事合作提供的這個裝備我們向美方採購的2621枚人西式飛彈接下來也會陸續交運到台灣那其中第一批500枚的人西式次增飛彈和這個發射系統是否確定能在年底前也就是下個月底前能夠交裝完成那後續因應各軍種的這個需求是否還有大量我們徵購的相關規劃我們"},{"start":539.785,"end":551.233,"text":"預期它會在今年的第四季來交付我們現在總共原來500枚現在再增加以後是2621枚"},{"start":555.476,"end":579.984,"text":"那我想我們現在希望它能夠這個現在它已經重新啟動這個自動化的產線逐漸趕上進度所以我們會在今年的第四季會獲得第一批之後我們陸續再會來應該會陸續來獲得那後續的500枚以外我們大概預計多久會全部交裝完成"},{"start":581.979,"end":585.874,"text":"呃 我想有相關的這個啟程你要不要跟大家聊一下"},{"start":587.21,"end":615.229,"text":"鮑遠 我們在目前我們既定的期程是到121年121對 這個時間是比較就是當初訂到2121枚第二次發達出需求清單遞出去之後美方給我們的期程是到121但是目前我們已經持續跟美方協調在這個自動化產線開設之後能夠把期程再往前壓縮那後面我們就是依照美方交運的期程來修訂我們相關的這個採購文件好"},{"start":616.496,"end":632.926,"text":"那這個部分先前討論這個台美共同生產的可能性主要還是以這個無人載具為主那剛剛講的這個次增飛彈除了在美國生產以外他也在德國還有土耳其有開闢這個生產線那去年這個"},{"start":634.787,"end":662.349,"text":"曾經報導說想我們想爭取在台灣來組裝生產這個次增飛彈當時這個議題部長您也回應了沒有這個討論的存在那時隔一年我們剛剛講的這個時程的問題我想再請教部長針對次增飛彈合作的可能性存在後續有沒有可能在台灣來生產組裝的可能我想這個還需要有待跟美方進行溝通"},{"start":663.846,"end":667.6,"text":"所以現在還沒有一個具體的沒有一個具體的結論"},{"start":669.864,"end":691.07,"text":"那在上個會期行政院的這個施政報告當中我們看到今年期這個入伍一年期的這個義務役新兵會在八週新訓的期間接受無人機還有反裝甲火箭還有仁溪式自身飛彈等訓練課程那政府在年初預估今年會徵集約9839元的這個一年期的義務役"},{"start":696.391,"end":718.806,"text":"但是在我們不確定現有的這個人西式這個次增飛彈的數量而且也缺乏模擬器材的情況之下我們今年以來是如何來落實這個人西式次增飛彈它納入EWE新訓課程的一個規劃那對於這個訓練的裝備器材或是師資我們應該要如何來因應"},{"start":720.247,"end":735.812,"text":"向委員報告陸軍參謀長向您報告第一點我們在目前還沒有這個模擬器獲得的情況下我們是先由我們的兵診中心來依據新訓單位訓練的需求我們已經在今年訓練開始的時候就已經產製"},{"start":736.952,"end":751.199,"text":"那目前交付新訓單位來使用也訓了6000多人次這方面是沒有問題那後續我們會再尋商先來做一個小批量的採購模擬器那經過驗測合格之後我們會納入這個建案來獲得以上報告"},{"start":752.139,"end":768.418,"text":"那我們在官部的這個夜報當中也看到我們國防創新小組所規劃在明年籌貨仁溪市這個次增飛彈模擬器我想也是因應接下來這個新到貨的次增飛彈交裝之後我們必須提升的"},{"start":769.119,"end":783.385,"text":"整備整體的訓練我想再請教部長有關模擬器預計籌貨的時程表要交付給什麼單位就剛剛我們參謀長講的這個部分我們國防部是否有一個更明確的一個規劃的計畫"},{"start":786.938,"end":807.956,"text":"像委員報告這個我們在這個DIO他所獲得的我們部隊驗測之後我們會分別交付給這個兵艦訓練單位還有駐地單位和新訓旅的駐地的這個有配附刺針飛彈單位還有新訓旅來讓他們滿足訓練的需求詳細的數據下去可以提供給委員好"},{"start":809.437,"end":827.049,"text":"好 那就以上我們相關這個武器籌貨的部分也請我們國防部持續的追蹤對 我們跟美方會持續來加強然後來趕上這些相關的這些期程好 儘早讓我們所購得的武器能夠"},{"start":829.071,"end":853.625,"text":"這個放在規劃的一個位置上對 像剛剛提到的那個82里面最大的大概2400多億台幣的這個F16的部分我們有看到美方加進行這個努力那兩半來加來進行這個趕制那現在在線的主帳已經有50架了一個F16謝謝部長 謝謝參謀長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":113,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時17分）謝謝召委，早安，大家好。先請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長早。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員好。"],["陳委員俊宇：先就軍購交付的議題來和部長做討論。國防部透過辦理對美軍購來籌獲各式作戰所需相關武器裝備，這是我們在建構現代化及不對稱戰力上非常重要的工作。但是就今天專報所安排的主題，顯示部分軍購案的執行及裝備交運的進度上可能存在疑義，我想國防部也必須在能夠公開的部分盡可能向國會，也向所有納稅義務人說明清楚。先就近期在討論的美方延宕交付軍購金額的部分來請教部長，許多報導標題都直接說還有六千多億臺幣的金額尚未交付，美台商業協會會長表示，目前他們只有總值80億美元的F-16戰機計畫及另外一項金額不到10億美元的計畫有所延遲。如果就國防部這邊提出有延宕的部分，則有AGM-154C飛彈及F-16V，還有MK-48重型魚雷等3個案子，所以實際上國防部目前所估算延宕的金額到底是多少？3個延宕案加起來的總額又是多少？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，因為之前有提到六千多億的部分，據我們了解，這是卡托研究所就美國對臺軍售案，他知會國會的金額，並不是延宕的金額，這可能要說明一下。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以這6,000億的部分，金額是錯誤的？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有發生延宕的金額有這麼高的狀況。那麼延宕的部分就剛剛委員提到的，金額最大的當然就是F-16V BLK 70有80億美金，另外，AGM-154C大概是一億一千多萬美金，然後MK-48重型魚雷大概是一億七千七百多萬，加起來大概就是八十二億八千多萬美金，現在有延宕的金額大概總額是如此。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以就是跟6,000億還是有差別嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：82億的話換算成……"],["陳委員俊宇：不到3,000億吧？"],["顧部長立雄：應該是不到，對，不到……"],["陳委員俊宇：不到3,000億嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：不到3,000億。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外針對軍購交付延遲的部分，先前國防部這邊也有說明會透過各式會議嚴密管制，美方也以專案的方式來處理對臺軍售交付延遲的問題，我們這邊應該也開出相關的清單交給對方了，這個部分我想請教部長，現在美方專門處理對臺軍售交付延遲的是哪一個單位，這個單位只有針對已經延宕的案件，還是對於所有未交付的案件都一併來做專案處理？"],["顧部長立雄：美國有成立一個叫做TIGER Task Force，就是一個專案小組，來監管所有的軍售案進度。"],["陳委員俊宇：就是美方的專責單位就對了？"],["顧部長立雄：是，我們兩國也會藉由定期的會議，我們這邊也會有一個駐廠稽核的機制來督促廠商依期程產製交運。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。除了交貨期程的部分，另外一方面，我們也對於預算的使用部分來做討論，所有軍購的付款都有一定的時程，這些案子一旦進到產線，我們就得付錢，這也是我們大家應該都能夠理解的，但是如果對方生產的進度不如預期的時候，我們也應該要避免有過早把這個錢付出去的情形，先前部長曾經也回應說如果還沒有到應該要付款的時間點，我們就不會付款，縱使把錢匯出去也是匯到這個FRB的軍購帳戶當中，也還是屬於國防部在控管的，並會產生孳息。針對這個問題，我想請教部長，我們現在付款的期程是怎麼訂的，又如何要求美方來修正這個期程，確保我們的利益不受損？"],["顧部長立雄：我們跟美方的軍購案大概從前置的備料跟生產線開始，依照這樣的備料跟生產線的開始，我們會付款，以F-16V來講的話，因為後來它的交運期程有延宕，所以我們從113年的第一季我們就緩付了，也就是說就沒有再付了這樣子。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。"],["顧部長立雄：意思就是說，一開始因為它要去備料，然後要有一個生產線的建置，這個我們是要付一筆錢，之後要按它實際的產製期程，我們來交付，以F-16V來看的話，因為它沒有辦法完成交運，所以我們就跟美方協調辦理緩付了，從113年的第一季開始就沒有再付了。"],["陳委員俊宇：現在就沒有再付了？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。另外，在113年度審計部的審計報告當中有指出，我們暫存在FRB的案款餘額相較於尚未完成供補品項之金額高出大概一億多美元，有資金滯留於美方多年的情形，應該要請美方優先退還無須支付的款項，針對沒有需求的款項，我們是否已經要求美方退回，金額大概有多少？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員說明，FRB也就是美國聯邦儲備銀行，這個帳戶是我們的帳戶，在這個帳戶裡面它如果有孳息，也是屬於我們的，現在雙方有檢討這個部分，待退的美金大概是兩億六千四百多萬，到目前為止大概退了四千八百多萬，快四千九百萬的美金，剩下還有兩億一千五百多萬美金我們要跟美方辦理帳務清整，帳務清整完畢以後也會陸續退還給我們。"],["陳委員俊宇：這個部分也請國防部如果有比較新的消息再跟所有的大眾說明清楚。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：接下來我想針對幾項武器籌獲的部分來跟部長討論，第一個是刺針飛彈部分，在今年的漢光演習，我們也看到多次出現在官兵操作人攜式刺針飛彈的演練當中，但國軍現有的應該是美軍先前以軍事合作提供的裝備，我們向美方採購的2,621枚人攜式飛彈接下來也會陸續交運到臺灣，其中第一批500枚的人攜式刺針飛彈和發射系統是否確定能在年底前（下個月底前）交裝完成？後續因應各軍種的需求，是否還有大量增購的相關規劃？"],["顧部長立雄：我們預期會在今年第四季陸續交付，原來500枚，再增加以後現在是2,621枚，現在他已經重新啟動自動化的產線、逐漸趕上進度，所以我們在今年第四季獲得第一批之後，應該會再陸續獲得。"],["陳委員俊宇：那500枚以外的後續部分預計多久會全部交裝完成？"],["顧部長立雄：有相關的期程。"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，目前我們既定的期程是到121年。"],["陳委員俊宇：121年！"],["黃司長文啓：對，這個時間是當初訂到2,621枚、第二次發價書需求信函遞出去之後，美方給我們的期程是到121年。但是目前我們已經持續跟美方協調，在自動化產線開設之後，能夠把期程再往前壓縮，後面我們就是依照美方交運的期程來修訂我們相關的採購文件。"],["陳委員俊宇：這個部分先前討論臺美共同生產的可能性，主要還是以無人載具為主，剛剛講的這個刺針飛彈除了在美國生產以外，它也在德國、土耳其有開闢生產線。去年曾經有報導說，我們想爭取在臺灣組裝、生產刺針飛彈，當時這個議題部長也回應了，沒有這個討論的存在；時隔一年，關於我們剛剛講的這個時程問題，我想再請教部長，針對刺針飛彈合作的可能性存在，後續有沒有在臺灣生產、組裝的可能？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個還有待跟美方進行溝通。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以……"],["顧部長立雄：現在還沒有一個具體的結論。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。在上個會期行政院的施政報告當中我們看到，今年起入伍1年期的義務役新兵會在8週新訓期間接受無人機、反裝甲火箭還有人攜式刺針飛彈等訓練課程，而政府在年初預估今年會徵集約9,839員1年期義務役。但是在我們不確定現有的人攜式刺針飛彈數量而且也缺乏模擬器材的情況之下，我們今年以來是如何落實人攜式刺針飛彈納入義務役新訓課程的規劃？對於訓練的裝備、器材或是師資應該要如何來因應？"],["陳參謀長建義：向委員報告，陸軍參謀長向您報告，第一點，我們在目前還沒有獲得模擬器的情況下，是先由我們的兵整中心依據新訓單位的訓練需求在今年訓練開始的時候就已經產製，目前交付新訓單位來使用，也訓了六千多人次，這方面沒有問題；後續我們會再詢商、先小批量採購模擬器，經過驗測合格之後我們會納入建案來獲得，以上報告。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。我們在國防部的業報當中也看到，國防創新小組規劃將在明年籌獲人攜式刺針飛彈模擬器，我想也是因應接下來新到貨的刺針飛彈交裝之後，我們必須提升整體訓能，我想再請教部長，有關模擬器預計籌獲的時程表要交付給什麼單位，就剛剛參謀長講的部分，國防部是否有一個更明確地計畫？"],["陳參謀長建義：向委員報告，在DIO所獲得我們部隊的驗測之後，我們會分別交付給兵間訓練單位、有配賦刺針飛彈的駐地單位，還有新訓旅來滿足他們的訓練需求，詳細數據下去可以提供給委員。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，以上相關武器籌獲的部分，也請國防部持續的追蹤。"],["顧部長立雄：我們跟美方會持續來加強並趕上相關的期程。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，儘早讓我們所購得的武器能夠放在規劃的位置上，以確保國家的安全。"],["顧部長立雄：對，所以剛剛提到的82裡面，最大的大概兩千四百多億臺幣的F-16部分，我們有看到美方在努力，以兩班制來進行趕製，現在在線的組裝已經有50架F-16V。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝部長、謝謝參謀長。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請羅美玲委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-11","speakers":["馬文君","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","林憶君","黃國昌","葉元之"],"page_start":315,"meetingDate":["2025-11-03"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「近年國軍各項軍事工程落後及軍、商購案延宕原因分析及具體應處\n作為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00012"}}}