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00:00:23,052\n謝謝主席主席有請國防部顧部長請顧部長那麼其他列席的官員如果需要補充的就請自行到台前來部長好我想剛剛其實在前面幾位委員的詢答當中都已經針對報告當中提出來的一些有關於我們現在\n\n2\n00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:47,490\n整體的軍事採購相關的這樣的一個進度做了一些說明喔那麼在詢答您之前我想在這個6日有一個跟我們國防外交也有關的議題就是外交部長林佳龍被這個CNN報導說這個以不明的消息來源特別提到的就是我們\n\n3\n00:00:48,351 --> 00:01:10,100\n在川習會當天喔CNN的這個報導聲稱說台灣的外交部長林佳龍涉嫌美方高層臨時缺席那這個消息來源是不明確的當時呢就被渲染成說好像我們台灣在外交上面充滿了這個困境跟挫折感不過馬上的外交部就做出了澄清那麼當時大家就講了\n\n4\n00:01:10,980 --> 00:01:29,909\n現在所謂的這個不只是以美論氾濫在外交的部分甚至於是不是包括連國防採購的部分其實也充斥著所謂以美論這個是本席特別找到的我不想多幫這個中國的官媒做宣傳可以看到就是中國的官媒很喜歡針對台灣的戰機或者是軍購來說所謂的這種\n\n5\n00:01:36,213 --> 00:02:03,394\n比如島內網友諷我們買這個F16戰機是所謂炸之機操作美國與民進黨聯手炸到台灣身無分文那麼我知道現在國民黨的新任黨主席在接受外國媒體的訪問的時候這個鄭麗文也特別提到了針對賴清德總統提到要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%他基本上認為\n\n6\n00:02:05,335 --> 00:02:21,246\n這樣子太多了或者是說他比較精準的講法是認為不需要這麼多即使外國的媒體直接跟他說那麼中國的軍備也在增加當中但是他還是認為這個數字太高了所以其實我還蠻感謝\n\n7\n00:02:23,007 --> 00:02:44,910\n召委今天特別安排這個部分讓國防部有機會把話說清楚但是我想講的就是如果當中國不斷的透過他們的官媒在釋放著就是台灣不需要這麼多的軍購或者是台灣的軍購都是當美國的冤大頭包括美國當然\n\n8\n00:02:46,391 --> 00:03:12,926\n他們也做了很多的報告但這些報告現在也不只是美國包括歐盟包括其他的國家都在講那就是以美論現在已經成為中國操作的一個方向那麼好現在問題就來了部長面對這樣的以美論的所謂認知作戰從外交到國防在這個部分我們是不是有適時的做一些澄清\n\n9\n00:03:13,926 --> 00:03:39,618\n我為什麼說今天召委安排這樣的一個專報非常的好是因為至少讓國防部有機會可以把話講清楚就像剛剛也特別提到的該交件的交件了沒有交件的部分有它存在的原因但是這種所謂搭配的組合權其實確實會讓國人對於我們提升國防自主又或者是\n\n10\n00:03:41,191 --> 00:04:05,789\n讓中國針對台灣國防的部分來下所謂的以美論這樣的毒藥其實還是會影響到的部長有沒有什麼回應首先第一點就是說像美國軍購的這些相關的武器包括剛剛提到的TOS-2B標槍海馬4M1A2\n\n11\n00:04:10,133 --> 00:04:34,698\n甚至還有這個Artis600等等這些供給無人機事實上都是如期的在交貨或者是有一些已經交運完畢那確實是有這個少數的包括我們剛剛講的那三個案子那當然大家最關切的是F16V的這個部分那我們也一再說明說這個是已經有50架在線組裝\n\n12\n00:04:36,098 --> 00:04:55,393\n所以我們認為明年也一定會有這個飛機來進行交運那這些這樣子的一個延宕不代表美國他不重視跟我們的一個軍購案而反過來講是我們可以看得到美方對於加速來進行然後\n\n13\n00:04:57,394 --> 00:05:06,823\n來讓這些軍公安的延宕能夠盡速的改善這樣一個努力那對我們來講的話我們光部當然就是說還是要針對這樣的一個認知作戰我們應該是要秉立這一個\n\n14\n00:05:14,270 --> 00:05:27,642\n即時收報之後然後來立即澄清這樣的一個原則來主動掌握訊息的聲量然後來適時的處置這個是我們國安部應該要努力來做的\n\n15\n00:05:28,342 --> 00:05:53,931\n那面對現在最大的在野黨黨主席也就是鄭麗文他特別在接受國際媒體專訪的時候特別提到了就是賴清德總統要把我們的國防預算拉伸到到達GDP的3%那麼他認為這樣子是過多了但是其實過去朱立倫也曾經表示他是支持國防預算比重超過3%那麼但只是他反對就是台灣跟美國購買\n\n16\n00:05:55,351 --> 00:06:04,403\n這個所謂的戰爭用的武器武器的設備那麼面對這樣子的整體的反應國防部怎麼樣來對外做應對或是你怎麼看\n\n17\n00:06:07,173 --> 00:06:27,553\n總統也一再宣示要以實力來取得和平國防部的立場我是認為我們跟美國的立場在這方面都是一致就是說整個亞太區域的和平穩定跟繁榮是美國的也是全球所關切的一個核心的利益\n\n18\n00:06:28,314 --> 00:06:52,703\n那我們為了要這個達成一個嚇阻我們一定要強化我們的國防的實力因為我們是站在一個對抗的最前緣如果我們自己不先強化我們自我防衛的能力跟決心的話我想就不足以產生嚇阻那麼如果不足以產生嚇阻的話那中國冒進的這個就可能增加所以冒進的是可能性就可能增加所以我們\n\n19\n00:06:54,083 --> 00:07:11,052\n國人一定要同意就是說要用實力然後依照我們的防衛作戰的需求依照我們的敵情威脅依照我們的建軍整備的這個情況來建構我們必要的這個籌購我們必要的這個武器\n\n20\n00:07:11,832 --> 00:07:31,999\n那也不可諱言的就是說現在願意公開按照這個台灣關係法跟六項保證願意提供我們相關的防衛性的武器我們如果要採軍購案除了我們商購跟委制的部分以外最大的軍售國的來源當然就是美國\n\n21\n00:07:32,719 --> 00:07:46,714\n那所以我們跟美國購買我們認為防衛作戰能力所必要的這個武器然後合乎我們的這個現金準備的一個要求我想這個都是必要的也希望國人能夠一體來加以支持\n\n22\n00:07:47,523 --> 00:08:11,057\n我是蠻認同部長所言其實在這幾年因為台灣受到國際間的重視尤其是除了美國之外其他歐盟或者是其他的國家對於台灣站在這個重要的戰略位置上面的重視因此我們在購買武器上面要對比過去要來的至少有進展這是肯定的\n\n23\n00:08:11,437 --> 00:08:30,410\n那麼只是說我們如何讓民眾認為在自己增強防衛自主上面有其必要性而且能夠展現到我們國防防衛對全民來講是重要的我想這個部分國防部恐怕還是要再多一點更多的說明喔那麼另外其實我要講的就是\n\n24\n00:08:31,530 --> 00:08:46,780\n在這個川習會之前喔這個川普特別在外交上面對外說了TaiwanisTaiwan但是在同一個時間點上面他又在他的這個socialmedia上面講了在軍事上面他要施壓所以宣布要重啟\n\n25\n00:08:47,901 --> 00:09:03,709\n和試驗那麼現在外交圈或者是整個國際政治上面會認為說這會不會是一個川普的所謂的組合圈一方面宣示台灣在台海上面的安全的一個重要性的這個戰略地位\n\n26\n00:09:04,870 --> 00:09:10,693\n但是另外一方面他也認為要延伸嚇阻對於中國上面所必要的一些防衛的動作當然我不認為這個所謂宣布重啟核試驗是一個對的方向因為畢竟其實這個一旦這個造成這個所謂的核爆對全球來講都是一個非常嚴重的傷害\n\n27\n00:09:25,702 --> 00:09:32,765\n部長怎麼來看呢川普在這一陣子不論是在外交的宣示又或者在軍事上面的動作對於台灣的影響性上對台灣的安全上面那麼美國的延伸式的嚇阻模式對台灣有什麼樣的影響\n\n28\n00:09:40,723 --> 00:09:59,858\n我想美國還是將印太作為它一個戰略核心所以就這個核子的武器美國也看到中國也不斷地在增強它的核子武器的數量\n\n29\n00:10:01,079 --> 00:10:29,138\n所以我想這個也是強化對中的一個嚇阻力道那當然其次就是如果我們看到這個中美現在也進行這個防漲的一個會議那如果你仔細看這個Hexes他事實上提到的第一點還是以實力實力來維持這個區域和平的穩定那當然我們會\n\n30\n00:10:31,099 --> 00:10:54,690\n有期待看到當然美中的這個溝通機制是有要有利於區域的和平跟穩定來降低這個他在衝突跟誤判的風險但是我想剛我提到的就是美國的戰爭部長他很明白的強調還是要以實力來維護區域的和平穩定那所以我們當然這邊也要呼籲中國作為一個負責任的大國的話\n\n31\n00:10:57,290 --> 00:11:21,953\n也應該要在行動上面放棄對周邊國家的揮帶欽拗跟這個停止各種的軍事威脅對啦我覺得這就像是我們健身的人其實是希望自己身體變強壯但是不是身體變強壯之後去霸凌人家我想這個應該就是台灣目前在國防戰力上面必須要擁有一定的實力最重要的\n\n32\n00:11:22,333 --> 00:11:27,720\n那麼另外當然就是本席在有關於針對這一年的總預算的時候特別的關注有關於九曲塘營區啦關田營區跟長峰營區的這個所謂工程延宕的部分我也看到了今天我們在報告當中有特別提到了\n\n33\n00:11:38,334 --> 00:11:56,406\n就是這個有關於軍事的建設的部分喔那麼其實我知道部長也非常重視就是有關PCM就是專管公司管理不當導致這個履約爭議而整體來說也造成了就是我們在營區的建制上面有延誤喔其實我只想問那麼在部長重視以及我們包括我們陸軍參謀也非常\n\n34\n00:12:01,929 --> 00:12:04,153\n參謀長非常重視的情況底下個案解決了但是未來精進的部分呢在有關於怎麼樣就責或是怎麼樣建立這個賞罰制度上面喔那麼是不是針對這個部分有更進一步的說明\n\n35\n00:12:17,128 --> 00:12:42,207\n包委员陆军参谋长向您做简要的报告在委员的指导和部长召集研讨相关会议之后第一个我们四权统一过去在专管跟统包它是分别由司令部和使用单位也就是军团来定定那导致在军团对于专管公司没有相关的督导的约束\n\n36\n00:12:42,227 --> 00:13:00,247\n约束令约束令那在这一段我们已经把它修正全部事权统一由军团来定定但是司令部责无旁贷他仍然是每个月或是是这个军团反应的问题来做一个定期的一个会议的检讨那第二个也就是建立一个\n\n37\n00:13:01,028 --> 00:13:27,721\n相關不管是我們不偏袒專管以及同胞都會建立一個法則的機制然後這些也都納入到相關的工訓中心的這些營工的班隊裡面列入教材以上報告好那麼我也希望對於這種有問題的不論是專管公司或是包商還是要有所謂的黑名單制度這個部分就希望能夠加強因為畢竟只要是工程延宕最後受損的都是要使用的國軍地修好謝謝謝謝謝偉\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1421\t23052\t謝謝主席 主席有請國防部顧部長請顧部長那麼其他列席的官員如果需要補充的就請自行到台前來部長好我想剛剛其實在前面幾位委員的詢答當中都已經針對報告當中提出來的一些有關於我們現在\n24133\t47490\t整體的軍事採購相關的這樣的一個進度做了一些說明喔那麼在詢答您之前我想在這個6日有一個跟我們國防外交也有關的議題就是外交部長林佳龍被這個CNN報導說這個以不明的消息來源特別提到的就是我們\n48351\t70100\t在川習會當天喔CNN的這個報導聲稱說台灣的外交部長林佳龍涉嫌美方高層臨時缺席那這個消息來源是不明確的當時呢就被渲染成說好像我們台灣在外交上面充滿了這個困境跟挫折感不過馬上的外交部就做出了澄清那麼當時大家就講了\n70980\t89909\t現在所謂的這個不只是以美論氾濫在外交的部分甚至於是不是包括連國防採購的部分其實也充斥著所謂以美論這個是本席特別找到的我不想多幫這個中國的官媒做宣傳可以看到就是中國的官媒很喜歡針對台灣的戰機或者是軍購來說所謂的這種\n96213\t123394\t比如島內網友諷我們買這個F16戰機是所謂炸之機操作美國與民進黨聯手炸到台灣身無分文那麼我知道現在國民黨的新任黨主席在接受外國媒體的訪問的時候這個鄭麗文也特別提到了針對賴清德總統提到要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%他基本上認為\n125335\t141246\t這樣子太多了或者是說他比較精準的講法是認為不需要這麼多即使外國的媒體直接跟他說那麼中國的軍備也在增加當中但是他還是認為這個數字太高了所以其實我還蠻感謝\n143007\t164910\t召委今天特別安排這個部分讓國防部有機會把話說清楚但是我想講的就是如果當中國不斷的透過他們的官媒在釋放著就是台灣不需要這麼多的軍購或者是台灣的軍購都是當美國的冤大頭包括美國當然\n166391\t192926\t他們也做了很多的報告但這些報告現在也不只是美國包括歐盟包括其他的國家都在講那就是以美論現在已經成為中國操作的一個方向那麼好現在問題就來了部長面對這樣的以美論的所謂認知作戰從外交到國防在這個部分我們是不是有適時的做一些澄清\n193926\t219618\t我為什麼說今天召委安排這樣的一個專報非常的好是因為至少讓國防部有機會可以把話講清楚就像剛剛也特別提到的該交件的交件了沒有交件的部分有它存在的原因但是這種所謂搭配的組合權其實確實會讓國人對於我們提升國防自主又或者是\n221191\t245789\t讓中國針對台灣國防的部分來下所謂的以美論這樣的毒藥其實還是會影響到的部長有沒有什麼回應首先第一點就是說像美國軍購的這些相關的武器包括剛剛提到的TOS-2B標槍海馬4 M1A2\n250133\t274698\t甚至還有這個Artis600等等這些供給無人機事實上都是如期的在交貨或者是有一些已經交運完畢那確實是有這個少數的包括我們剛剛講的那三個案子那當然大家最關切的是F16V的這個部分那我們也一再說明說這個是已經有50架在線組裝\n276098\t295393\t所以我們認為明年也一定會有這個飛機來進行交運那這些這樣子的一個延宕不代表美國他不重視跟我們的一個軍購案而反過來講是我們可以看得到美方對於加速來進行然後\n297394\t306823\t來讓這些軍公安的延宕能夠盡速的改善這樣一個努力那對我們來講的話我們光部當然就是說還是要針對這樣的一個認知作戰我們應該是要秉立這一個\n314270\t327642\t即時收報之後然後來立即澄清這樣的一個原則來主動掌握訊息的聲量然後來適時的處置這個是我們國安部應該要努力來做的\n328342\t353931\t那面對現在最大的在野黨黨主席也就是鄭麗文他特別在接受國際媒體專訪的時候特別提到了就是賴清德總統要把我們的國防預算拉伸到到達GDP的3%那麼他認為這樣子是過多了但是其實過去朱立倫也曾經表示他是支持國防預算比重超過3%那麼但只是他反對就是台灣跟美國購買\n355351\t364403\t這個所謂的戰爭用的武器武器的設備那麼面對這樣子的整體的反應國防部怎麼樣來對外做應對或是你怎麼看\n367173\t387553\t總統也一再宣示要以實力來取得和平國防部的立場我是認為我們跟美國的立場在這方面都是一致就是說整個亞太區域的和平穩定跟繁榮是美國的也是全球所關切的一個核心的利益\n388314\t412703\t那我們為了要這個達成一個嚇阻我們一定要強化我們的國防的實力因為我們是站在一個對抗的最前緣如果我們自己不先強化我們自我防衛的能力跟決心的話我想就不足以產生嚇阻那麼如果不足以產生嚇阻的話那中國冒進的這個就可能增加所以冒進的是可能性就可能增加所以我們\n414083\t431052\t國人一定要同意就是說要用實力然後依照我們的防衛作戰的需求依照我們的敵情威脅依照我們的建軍整備的這個情況來建構我們必要的這個籌購我們必要的這個武器\n431832\t451999\t那也不可諱言的就是說現在願意公開按照這個台灣關係法跟六項保證願意提供我們相關的防衛性的武器我們如果要採軍購案除了我們商購跟委制的部分以外最大的軍售國的來源當然就是美國\n452719\t466714\t那所以我們跟美國購買我們認為防衛作戰能力所必要的這個武器然後合乎我們的這個現金準備的一個要求我想這個都是必要的也希望國人能夠一體來加以支持\n467523\t491057\t我是蠻認同部長所言其實在這幾年因為台灣受到國際間的重視尤其是除了美國之外其他歐盟或者是其他的國家對於台灣站在這個重要的戰略位置上面的重視因此我們在購買武器上面要對比過去要來的至少有進展這是肯定的\n491437\t510410\t那麼只是說我們如何讓民眾認為在自己增強防衛自主上面有其必要性而且能夠展現到我們國防防衛對全民來講是重要的我想這個部分國防部恐怕還是要再多一點更多的說明喔那麼另外其實我要講的就是\n511530\t526780\t在這個川習會之前喔這個川普特別在外交上面對外說了Taiwan is Taiwan但是在同一個時間點上面他又在他的這個social media上面講了在軍事上面他要施壓所以宣布要重啟\n527901\t543709\t和試驗那麼現在外交圈或者是整個國際政治上面會認為說這會不會是一個川普的所謂的組合圈一方面宣示台灣在台海上面的安全的一個重要性的這個戰略地位\n544870\t550693\t但是另外一方面他也認為要延伸嚇阻對於中國上面所必要的一些防衛的動作當然我不認為這個所謂宣布重啟核試驗是一個對的方向因為畢竟其實這個一旦這個造成這個所謂的核爆對全球來講都是一個非常嚴重的傷害\n565702\t572765\t部長怎麼來看呢川普在這一陣子不論是在外交的宣示又或者在軍事上面的動作對於台灣的影響性上對台灣的安全上面那麼美國的延伸式的嚇阻模式對台灣有什麼樣的影響\n580723\t599858\t我想美國還是將印太作為它一個戰略核心所以就這個核子的武器美國也看到中國也不斷地在增強它的核子武器的數量\n601079\t629138\t所以我想這個也是強化對中的一個嚇阻力道那當然其次就是如果我們看到這個中美現在也進行這個防漲的一個會議那如果你仔細看這個Hexes他事實上提到的第一點還是以實力實力來維持這個區域和平的穩定那當然我們會\n631099\t654690\t有期待看到當然美中的這個溝通機制是有要有利於區域的和平跟穩定來降低這個他在衝突跟誤判的風險但是我想剛我提到的就是美國的戰爭部長他很明白的強調還是要以實力來維護區域的和平穩定那所以我們當然這邊也要呼籲中國作為一個負責任的大國的話\n657290\t681953\t也應該要在行動上面放棄對周邊國家的揮帶欽拗跟這個停止各種的軍事威脅對啦 我覺得這就像是我們健身的人其實是希望自己身體變強壯但是不是身體變強壯之後去霸凌人家我想這個應該就是台灣目前在國防戰力上面必須要擁有一定的實力最重要的\n682333\t687720\t那麼另外當然就是本席在有關於針對這一年的總預算的時候特別的關注有關於九曲塘營區啦關田營區跟長峰營區的這個所謂工程延宕的部分我也看到了今天我們在報告當中有特別提到了\n698334\t716406\t就是這個有關於軍事的建設的部分喔那麼其實我知道部長也非常重視就是有關PCM就是專管公司管理不當導致這個履約爭議而整體來說也造成了就是我們在營區的建制上面有延誤喔其實我只想問那麼在部長重視以及我們包括我們陸軍參謀也非常\n721929\t724153\t參謀長非常重視的情況底下個案解決了但是未來精進的部分呢在有關於怎麼樣就責或是怎麼樣建立這個賞罰制度上面喔那麼是不是針對這個部分有更進一步的說明\n737128\t762207\t包委员陆军参谋长向您做简要的报告在委员的指导和部长召集研讨相关会议之后第一个我们四权统一过去在专管跟统包它是分别由司令部和使用单位也就是军团来定定那导致在军团对于专管公司没有相关的督导的约束\n762227\t780247\t约束令约束令那在这一段我们已经把它修正全部事权统一由军团来定定但是司令部责无旁贷他仍然是每个月或是是这个军团反应的问题来做一个定期的一个会议的检讨那第二个也就是建立一个\n781028\t807721\t相關不管是我們不偏袒專管以及同胞都會建立一個法則的機制然後這些也都納入到相關的工訓中心的這些營工的班隊裡面列入教材 以上報告好 那麼我也希望對於這種有問題的不論是專管公司或是包商還是要有所謂的黑名單制度這個部分就希望能夠加強因為畢竟只要是工程延宕最後受損的都是要使用的國軍地修好 謝謝謝謝 謝偉\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請國防部顧部長請顧部長那麼其他列席的官員如果需要補充的就請自行到台前來部長好我想剛剛其實在前面幾位委員的詢答當中都已經針對報告當中提出來的一些有關於我們現在\n整體的軍事採購相關的這樣的一個進度做了一些說明喔那麼在詢答您之前我想在這個6日有一個跟我們國防外交也有關的議題就是外交部長林佳龍被這個CNN報導說這個以不明的消息來源特別提到的就是我們\n在川習會當天喔CNN的這個報導聲稱說台灣的外交部長林佳龍涉嫌美方高層臨時缺席那這個消息來源是不明確的當時呢就被渲染成說好像我們台灣在外交上面充滿了這個困境跟挫折感不過馬上的外交部就做出了澄清那麼當時大家就講了\n現在所謂的這個不只是以美論氾濫在外交的部分甚至於是不是包括連國防採購的部分其實也充斥著所謂以美論這個是本席特別找到的我不想多幫這個中國的官媒做宣傳可以看到就是中國的官媒很喜歡針對台灣的戰機或者是軍購來說所謂的這種\n比如島內網友諷我們買這個F16戰機是所謂炸之機操作美國與民進黨聯手炸到台灣身無分文那麼我知道現在國民黨的新任黨主席在接受外國媒體的訪問的時候這個鄭麗文也特別提到了針對賴清德總統提到要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%他基本上認為\n這樣子太多了或者是說他比較精準的講法是認為不需要這麼多即使外國的媒體直接跟他說那麼中國的軍備也在增加當中但是他還是認為這個數字太高了所以其實我還蠻感謝\n召委今天特別安排這個部分讓國防部有機會把話說清楚但是我想講的就是如果當中國不斷的透過他們的官媒在釋放著就是台灣不需要這麼多的軍購或者是台灣的軍購都是當美國的冤大頭包括美國當然\n他們也做了很多的報告但這些報告現在也不只是美國包括歐盟包括其他的國家都在講那就是以美論現在已經成為中國操作的一個方向那麼好現在問題就來了部長面對這樣的以美論的所謂認知作戰從外交到國防在這個部分我們是不是有適時的做一些澄清\n我為什麼說今天召委安排這樣的一個專報非常的好是因為至少讓國防部有機會可以把話講清楚就像剛剛也特別提到的該交件的交件了沒有交件的部分有它存在的原因但是這種所謂搭配的組合權其實確實會讓國人對於我們提升國防自主又或者是\n讓中國針對台灣國防的部分來下所謂的以美論這樣的毒藥其實還是會影響到的部長有沒有什麼回應首先第一點就是說像美國軍購的這些相關的武器包括剛剛提到的TOS-2B標槍海馬4 M1A2\n甚至還有這個Artis600等等這些供給無人機事實上都是如期的在交貨或者是有一些已經交運完畢那確實是有這個少數的包括我們剛剛講的那三個案子那當然大家最關切的是F16V的這個部分那我們也一再說明說這個是已經有50架在線組裝\n所以我們認為明年也一定會有這個飛機來進行交運那這些這樣子的一個延宕不代表美國他不重視跟我們的一個軍購案而反過來講是我們可以看得到美方對於加速來進行然後\n來讓這些軍公安的延宕能夠盡速的改善這樣一個努力那對我們來講的話我們光部當然就是說還是要針對這樣的一個認知作戰我們應該是要秉立這一個\n即時收報之後然後來立即澄清這樣的一個原則來主動掌握訊息的聲量然後來適時的處置這個是我們國安部應該要努力來做的\n那面對現在最大的在野黨黨主席也就是鄭麗文他特別在接受國際媒體專訪的時候特別提到了就是賴清德總統要把我們的國防預算拉伸到到達GDP的3%那麼他認為這樣子是過多了但是其實過去朱立倫也曾經表示他是支持國防預算比重超過3%那麼但只是他反對就是台灣跟美國購買\n這個所謂的戰爭用的武器武器的設備那麼面對這樣子的整體的反應國防部怎麼樣來對外做應對或是你怎麼看\n總統也一再宣示要以實力來取得和平國防部的立場我是認為我們跟美國的立場在這方面都是一致就是說整個亞太區域的和平穩定跟繁榮是美國的也是全球所關切的一個核心的利益\n那我們為了要這個達成一個嚇阻我們一定要強化我們的國防的實力因為我們是站在一個對抗的最前緣如果我們自己不先強化我們自我防衛的能力跟決心的話我想就不足以產生嚇阻那麼如果不足以產生嚇阻的話那中國冒進的這個就可能增加所以冒進的是可能性就可能增加所以我們\n國人一定要同意就是說要用實力然後依照我們的防衛作戰的需求依照我們的敵情威脅依照我們的建軍整備的這個情況來建構我們必要的這個籌購我們必要的這個武器\n那也不可諱言的就是說現在願意公開按照這個台灣關係法跟六項保證願意提供我們相關的防衛性的武器我們如果要採軍購案除了我們商購跟委制的部分以外最大的軍售國的來源當然就是美國\n那所以我們跟美國購買我們認為防衛作戰能力所必要的這個武器然後合乎我們的這個現金準備的一個要求我想這個都是必要的也希望國人能夠一體來加以支持\n我是蠻認同部長所言其實在這幾年因為台灣受到國際間的重視尤其是除了美國之外其他歐盟或者是其他的國家對於台灣站在這個重要的戰略位置上面的重視因此我們在購買武器上面要對比過去要來的至少有進展這是肯定的\n那麼只是說我們如何讓民眾認為在自己增強防衛自主上面有其必要性而且能夠展現到我們國防防衛對全民來講是重要的我想這個部分國防部恐怕還是要再多一點更多的說明喔那麼另外其實我要講的就是\n在這個川習會之前喔這個川普特別在外交上面對外說了Taiwan is Taiwan但是在同一個時間點上面他又在他的這個social media上面講了在軍事上面他要施壓所以宣布要重啟\n和試驗那麼現在外交圈或者是整個國際政治上面會認為說這會不會是一個川普的所謂的組合圈一方面宣示台灣在台海上面的安全的一個重要性的這個戰略地位\n但是另外一方面他也認為要延伸嚇阻對於中國上面所必要的一些防衛的動作當然我不認為這個所謂宣布重啟核試驗是一個對的方向因為畢竟其實這個一旦這個造成這個所謂的核爆對全球來講都是一個非常嚴重的傷害\n部長怎麼來看呢川普在這一陣子不論是在外交的宣示又或者在軍事上面的動作對於台灣的影響性上對台灣的安全上面那麼美國的延伸式的嚇阻模式對台灣有什麼樣的影響\n我想美國還是將印太作為它一個戰略核心所以就這個核子的武器美國也看到中國也不斷地在增強它的核子武器的數量\n所以我想這個也是強化對中的一個嚇阻力道那當然其次就是如果我們看到這個中美現在也進行這個防漲的一個會議那如果你仔細看這個Hexes他事實上提到的第一點還是以實力實力來維持這個區域和平的穩定那當然我們會\n有期待看到當然美中的這個溝通機制是有要有利於區域的和平跟穩定來降低這個他在衝突跟誤判的風險但是我想剛我提到的就是美國的戰爭部長他很明白的強調還是要以實力來維護區域的和平穩定那所以我們當然這邊也要呼籲中國作為一個負責任的大國的話\n也應該要在行動上面放棄對周邊國家的揮帶欽拗跟這個停止各種的軍事威脅對啦 我覺得這就像是我們健身的人其實是希望自己身體變強壯但是不是身體變強壯之後去霸凌人家我想這個應該就是台灣目前在國防戰力上面必須要擁有一定的實力最重要的\n那麼另外當然就是本席在有關於針對這一年的總預算的時候特別的關注有關於九曲塘營區啦關田營區跟長峰營區的這個所謂工程延宕的部分我也看到了今天我們在報告當中有特別提到了\n就是這個有關於軍事的建設的部分喔那麼其實我知道部長也非常重視就是有關PCM就是專管公司管理不當導致這個履約爭議而整體來說也造成了就是我們在營區的建制上面有延誤喔其實我只想問那麼在部長重視以及我們包括我們陸軍參謀也非常\n參謀長非常重視的情況底下個案解決了但是未來精進的部分呢在有關於怎麼樣就責或是怎麼樣建立這個賞罰制度上面喔那麼是不是針對這個部分有更進一步的說明\n包委员陆军参谋长向您做简要的报告在委员的指导和部长召集研讨相关会议之后第一个我们四权统一过去在专管跟统包它是分别由司令部和使用单位也就是军团来定定那导致在军团对于专管公司没有相关的督导的约束\n约束令约束令那在这一段我们已经把它修正全部事权统一由军团来定定但是司令部责无旁贷他仍然是每个月或是是这个军团反应的问题来做一个定期的一个会议的检讨那第二个也就是建立一个\n相關不管是我們不偏袒專管以及同胞都會建立一個法則的機制然後這些也都納入到相關的工訓中心的這些營工的班隊裡面列入教材 以上報告好 那麼我也希望對於這種有問題的不論是專管公司或是包商還是要有所謂的黑名單制度這個部分就希望能夠加強因為畢竟只要是工程延宕最後受損的都是要使用的國軍地修好 謝謝謝謝 謝偉\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.421 --> 00:23.052\n謝謝主席主席有請國防部顧部長請顧部長那麼其他列席的官員如果需要補充的就請自行到台前來部長好我想剛剛其實在前面幾位委員的詢答當中都已經針對報告當中提出來的一些有關於我們現在\n\n00:24.133 --> 00:47.490\n整體的軍事採購相關的這樣的一個進度做了一些說明喔那麼在詢答您之前我想在這個6日有一個跟我們國防外交也有關的議題就是外交部長林佳龍被這個CNN報導說這個以不明的消息來源特別提到的就是我們\n\n00:48.351 --> 01:10.100\n在川習會當天喔CNN的這個報導聲稱說台灣的外交部長林佳龍涉嫌美方高層臨時缺席那這個消息來源是不明確的當時呢就被渲染成說好像我們台灣在外交上面充滿了這個困境跟挫折感不過馬上的外交部就做出了澄清那麼當時大家就講了\n\n01:10.980 --> 01:29.909\n現在所謂的這個不只是以美論氾濫在外交的部分甚至於是不是包括連國防採購的部分其實也充斥著所謂以美論這個是本席特別找到的我不想多幫這個中國的官媒做宣傳可以看到就是中國的官媒很喜歡針對台灣的戰機或者是軍購來說所謂的這種\n\n01:36.213 --> 02:03.394\n比如島內網友諷我們買這個F16戰機是所謂炸之機操作美國與民進黨聯手炸到台灣身無分文那麼我知道現在國民黨的新任黨主席在接受外國媒體的訪問的時候這個鄭麗文也特別提到了針對賴清德總統提到要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%他基本上認為\n\n02:05.335 --> 02:21.246\n這樣子太多了或者是說他比較精準的講法是認為不需要這麼多即使外國的媒體直接跟他說那麼中國的軍備也在增加當中但是他還是認為這個數字太高了所以其實我還蠻感謝\n\n02:23.007 --> 02:44.910\n召委今天特別安排這個部分讓國防部有機會把話說清楚但是我想講的就是如果當中國不斷的透過他們的官媒在釋放著就是台灣不需要這麼多的軍購或者是台灣的軍購都是當美國的冤大頭包括美國當然\n\n02:46.391 --> 03:12.926\n他們也做了很多的報告但這些報告現在也不只是美國包括歐盟包括其他的國家都在講那就是以美論現在已經成為中國操作的一個方向那麼好現在問題就來了部長面對這樣的以美論的所謂認知作戰從外交到國防在這個部分我們是不是有適時的做一些澄清\n\n03:13.926 --> 03:39.618\n我為什麼說今天召委安排這樣的一個專報非常的好是因為至少讓國防部有機會可以把話講清楚就像剛剛也特別提到的該交件的交件了沒有交件的部分有它存在的原因但是這種所謂搭配的組合權其實確實會讓國人對於我們提升國防自主又或者是\n\n03:41.191 --> 04:05.789\n讓中國針對台灣國防的部分來下所謂的以美論這樣的毒藥其實還是會影響到的部長有沒有什麼回應首先第一點就是說像美國軍購的這些相關的武器包括剛剛提到的TOS-2B標槍海馬4M1A2\n\n04:10.133 --> 04:34.698\n甚至還有這個Artis600等等這些供給無人機事實上都是如期的在交貨或者是有一些已經交運完畢那確實是有這個少數的包括我們剛剛講的那三個案子那當然大家最關切的是F16V的這個部分那我們也一再說明說這個是已經有50架在線組裝\n\n04:36.098 --> 04:55.393\n所以我們認為明年也一定會有這個飛機來進行交運那這些這樣子的一個延宕不代表美國他不重視跟我們的一個軍購案而反過來講是我們可以看得到美方對於加速來進行然後\n\n04:57.394 --> 05:06.823\n來讓這些軍公安的延宕能夠盡速的改善這樣一個努力那對我們來講的話我們光部當然就是說還是要針對這樣的一個認知作戰我們應該是要秉立這一個\n\n05:14.270 --> 05:27.642\n即時收報之後然後來立即澄清這樣的一個原則來主動掌握訊息的聲量然後來適時的處置這個是我們國安部應該要努力來做的\n\n05:28.342 --> 05:53.931\n那面對現在最大的在野黨黨主席也就是鄭麗文他特別在接受國際媒體專訪的時候特別提到了就是賴清德總統要把我們的國防預算拉伸到到達GDP的3%那麼他認為這樣子是過多了但是其實過去朱立倫也曾經表示他是支持國防預算比重超過3%那麼但只是他反對就是台灣跟美國購買\n\n05:55.351 --> 06:04.403\n這個所謂的戰爭用的武器武器的設備那麼面對這樣子的整體的反應國防部怎麼樣來對外做應對或是你怎麼看\n\n06:07.173 --> 06:27.553\n總統也一再宣示要以實力來取得和平國防部的立場我是認為我們跟美國的立場在這方面都是一致就是說整個亞太區域的和平穩定跟繁榮是美國的也是全球所關切的一個核心的利益\n\n06:28.314 --> 06:52.703\n那我們為了要這個達成一個嚇阻我們一定要強化我們的國防的實力因為我們是站在一個對抗的最前緣如果我們自己不先強化我們自我防衛的能力跟決心的話我想就不足以產生嚇阻那麼如果不足以產生嚇阻的話那中國冒進的這個就可能增加所以冒進的是可能性就可能增加所以我們\n\n06:54.083 --> 07:11.052\n國人一定要同意就是說要用實力然後依照我們的防衛作戰的需求依照我們的敵情威脅依照我們的建軍整備的這個情況來建構我們必要的這個籌購我們必要的這個武器\n\n07:11.832 --> 07:31.999\n那也不可諱言的就是說現在願意公開按照這個台灣關係法跟六項保證願意提供我們相關的防衛性的武器我們如果要採軍購案除了我們商購跟委制的部分以外最大的軍售國的來源當然就是美國\n\n07:32.719 --> 07:46.714\n那所以我們跟美國購買我們認為防衛作戰能力所必要的這個武器然後合乎我們的這個現金準備的一個要求我想這個都是必要的也希望國人能夠一體來加以支持\n\n07:47.523 --> 08:11.057\n我是蠻認同部長所言其實在這幾年因為台灣受到國際間的重視尤其是除了美國之外其他歐盟或者是其他的國家對於台灣站在這個重要的戰略位置上面的重視因此我們在購買武器上面要對比過去要來的至少有進展這是肯定的\n\n08:11.437 --> 08:30.410\n那麼只是說我們如何讓民眾認為在自己增強防衛自主上面有其必要性而且能夠展現到我們國防防衛對全民來講是重要的我想這個部分國防部恐怕還是要再多一點更多的說明喔那麼另外其實我要講的就是\n\n08:31.530 --> 08:46.780\n在這個川習會之前喔這個川普特別在外交上面對外說了TaiwanisTaiwan但是在同一個時間點上面他又在他的這個socialmedia上面講了在軍事上面他要施壓所以宣布要重啟\n\n08:47.901 --> 09:03.709\n和試驗那麼現在外交圈或者是整個國際政治上面會認為說這會不會是一個川普的所謂的組合圈一方面宣示台灣在台海上面的安全的一個重要性的這個戰略地位\n\n09:04.870 --> 09:10.693\n但是另外一方面他也認為要延伸嚇阻對於中國上面所必要的一些防衛的動作當然我不認為這個所謂宣布重啟核試驗是一個對的方向因為畢竟其實這個一旦這個造成這個所謂的核爆對全球來講都是一個非常嚴重的傷害\n\n09:25.702 --> 09:32.765\n部長怎麼來看呢川普在這一陣子不論是在外交的宣示又或者在軍事上面的動作對於台灣的影響性上對台灣的安全上面那麼美國的延伸式的嚇阻模式對台灣有什麼樣的影響\n\n09:40.723 --> 09:59.858\n我想美國還是將印太作為它一個戰略核心所以就這個核子的武器美國也看到中國也不斷地在增強它的核子武器的數量\n\n10:01.079 --> 10:29.138\n所以我想這個也是強化對中的一個嚇阻力道那當然其次就是如果我們看到這個中美現在也進行這個防漲的一個會議那如果你仔細看這個Hexes他事實上提到的第一點還是以實力實力來維持這個區域和平的穩定那當然我們會\n\n10:31.099 --> 10:54.690\n有期待看到當然美中的這個溝通機制是有要有利於區域的和平跟穩定來降低這個他在衝突跟誤判的風險但是我想剛我提到的就是美國的戰爭部長他很明白的強調還是要以實力來維護區域的和平穩定那所以我們當然這邊也要呼籲中國作為一個負責任的大國的話\n\n10:57.290 --> 11:21.953\n也應該要在行動上面放棄對周邊國家的揮帶欽拗跟這個停止各種的軍事威脅對啦我覺得這就像是我們健身的人其實是希望自己身體變強壯但是不是身體變強壯之後去霸凌人家我想這個應該就是台灣目前在國防戰力上面必須要擁有一定的實力最重要的\n\n11:22.333 --> 11:27.720\n那麼另外當然就是本席在有關於針對這一年的總預算的時候特別的關注有關於九曲塘營區啦關田營區跟長峰營區的這個所謂工程延宕的部分我也看到了今天我們在報告當中有特別提到了\n\n11:38.334 --> 11:56.406\n就是這個有關於軍事的建設的部分喔那麼其實我知道部長也非常重視就是有關PCM就是專管公司管理不當導致這個履約爭議而整體來說也造成了就是我們在營區的建制上面有延誤喔其實我只想問那麼在部長重視以及我們包括我們陸軍參謀也非常\n\n12:01.929 --> 12:04.153\n參謀長非常重視的情況底下個案解決了但是未來精進的部分呢在有關於怎麼樣就責或是怎麼樣建立這個賞罰制度上面喔那麼是不是針對這個部分有更進一步的說明\n\n12:17.128 --> 12:42.207\n包委员陆军参谋长向您做简要的报告在委员的指导和部长召集研讨相关会议之后第一个我们四权统一过去在专管跟统包它是分别由司令部和使用单位也就是军团来定定那导致在军团对于专管公司没有相关的督导的约束\n\n12:42.227 --> 13:00.247\n约束令约束令那在这一段我们已经把它修正全部事权统一由军团来定定但是司令部责无旁贷他仍然是每个月或是是这个军团反应的问题来做一个定期的一个会议的检讨那第二个也就是建立一个\n\n13:01.028 --> 13:27.721\n相關不管是我們不偏袒專管以及同胞都會建立一個法則的機制然後這些也都納入到相關的工訓中心的這些營工的班隊裡面列入教材以上報告好那麼我也希望對於這種有問題的不論是專管公司或是包商還是要有所謂的黑名單制度這個部分就希望能夠加強因為畢竟只要是工程延宕最後受損的都是要使用的國軍地修好謝謝謝謝謝偉\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.421,"end":23.052,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請國防部顧部長請顧部長那麼其他列席的官員如果需要補充的就請自行到台前來部長好我想剛剛其實在前面幾位委員的詢答當中都已經針對報告當中提出來的一些有關於我們現在"},{"start":24.133,"end":47.49,"text":"整體的軍事採購相關的這樣的一個進度做了一些說明喔那麼在詢答您之前我想在這個6日有一個跟我們國防外交也有關的議題就是外交部長林佳龍被這個CNN報導說這個以不明的消息來源特別提到的就是我們"},{"start":48.351,"end":70.1,"text":"在川習會當天喔CNN的這個報導聲稱說台灣的外交部長林佳龍涉嫌美方高層臨時缺席那這個消息來源是不明確的當時呢就被渲染成說好像我們台灣在外交上面充滿了這個困境跟挫折感不過馬上的外交部就做出了澄清那麼當時大家就講了"},{"start":70.98,"end":89.909,"text":"現在所謂的這個不只是以美論氾濫在外交的部分甚至於是不是包括連國防採購的部分其實也充斥著所謂以美論這個是本席特別找到的我不想多幫這個中國的官媒做宣傳可以看到就是中國的官媒很喜歡針對台灣的戰機或者是軍購來說所謂的這種"},{"start":96.213,"end":123.394,"text":"比如島內網友諷我們買這個F16戰機是所謂炸之機操作美國與民進黨聯手炸到台灣身無分文那麼我知道現在國民黨的新任黨主席在接受外國媒體的訪問的時候這個鄭麗文也特別提到了針對賴清德總統提到要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%他基本上認為"},{"start":125.335,"end":141.246,"text":"這樣子太多了或者是說他比較精準的講法是認為不需要這麼多即使外國的媒體直接跟他說那麼中國的軍備也在增加當中但是他還是認為這個數字太高了所以其實我還蠻感謝"},{"start":143.007,"end":164.91,"text":"召委今天特別安排這個部分讓國防部有機會把話說清楚但是我想講的就是如果當中國不斷的透過他們的官媒在釋放著就是台灣不需要這麼多的軍購或者是台灣的軍購都是當美國的冤大頭包括美國當然"},{"start":166.391,"end":192.926,"text":"他們也做了很多的報告但這些報告現在也不只是美國包括歐盟包括其他的國家都在講那就是以美論現在已經成為中國操作的一個方向那麼好現在問題就來了部長面對這樣的以美論的所謂認知作戰從外交到國防在這個部分我們是不是有適時的做一些澄清"},{"start":193.926,"end":219.618,"text":"我為什麼說今天召委安排這樣的一個專報非常的好是因為至少讓國防部有機會可以把話講清楚就像剛剛也特別提到的該交件的交件了沒有交件的部分有它存在的原因但是這種所謂搭配的組合權其實確實會讓國人對於我們提升國防自主又或者是"},{"start":221.191,"end":245.789,"text":"讓中國針對台灣國防的部分來下所謂的以美論這樣的毒藥其實還是會影響到的部長有沒有什麼回應首先第一點就是說像美國軍購的這些相關的武器包括剛剛提到的TOS-2B標槍海馬4 M1A2"},{"start":250.133,"end":274.698,"text":"甚至還有這個Artis600等等這些供給無人機事實上都是如期的在交貨或者是有一些已經交運完畢那確實是有這個少數的包括我們剛剛講的那三個案子那當然大家最關切的是F16V的這個部分那我們也一再說明說這個是已經有50架在線組裝"},{"start":276.098,"end":295.393,"text":"所以我們認為明年也一定會有這個飛機來進行交運那這些這樣子的一個延宕不代表美國他不重視跟我們的一個軍購案而反過來講是我們可以看得到美方對於加速來進行然後"},{"start":297.394,"end":306.823,"text":"來讓這些軍公安的延宕能夠盡速的改善這樣一個努力那對我們來講的話我們光部當然就是說還是要針對這樣的一個認知作戰我們應該是要秉立這一個"},{"start":314.27,"end":327.642,"text":"即時收報之後然後來立即澄清這樣的一個原則來主動掌握訊息的聲量然後來適時的處置這個是我們國安部應該要努力來做的"},{"start":328.342,"end":353.931,"text":"那面對現在最大的在野黨黨主席也就是鄭麗文他特別在接受國際媒體專訪的時候特別提到了就是賴清德總統要把我們的國防預算拉伸到到達GDP的3%那麼他認為這樣子是過多了但是其實過去朱立倫也曾經表示他是支持國防預算比重超過3%那麼但只是他反對就是台灣跟美國購買"},{"start":355.351,"end":364.403,"text":"這個所謂的戰爭用的武器武器的設備那麼面對這樣子的整體的反應國防部怎麼樣來對外做應對或是你怎麼看"},{"start":367.173,"end":387.553,"text":"總統也一再宣示要以實力來取得和平國防部的立場我是認為我們跟美國的立場在這方面都是一致就是說整個亞太區域的和平穩定跟繁榮是美國的也是全球所關切的一個核心的利益"},{"start":388.314,"end":412.703,"text":"那我們為了要這個達成一個嚇阻我們一定要強化我們的國防的實力因為我們是站在一個對抗的最前緣如果我們自己不先強化我們自我防衛的能力跟決心的話我想就不足以產生嚇阻那麼如果不足以產生嚇阻的話那中國冒進的這個就可能增加所以冒進的是可能性就可能增加所以我們"},{"start":414.083,"end":431.052,"text":"國人一定要同意就是說要用實力然後依照我們的防衛作戰的需求依照我們的敵情威脅依照我們的建軍整備的這個情況來建構我們必要的這個籌購我們必要的這個武器"},{"start":431.832,"end":451.999,"text":"那也不可諱言的就是說現在願意公開按照這個台灣關係法跟六項保證願意提供我們相關的防衛性的武器我們如果要採軍購案除了我們商購跟委制的部分以外最大的軍售國的來源當然就是美國"},{"start":452.719,"end":466.714,"text":"那所以我們跟美國購買我們認為防衛作戰能力所必要的這個武器然後合乎我們的這個現金準備的一個要求我想這個都是必要的也希望國人能夠一體來加以支持"},{"start":467.523,"end":491.057,"text":"我是蠻認同部長所言其實在這幾年因為台灣受到國際間的重視尤其是除了美國之外其他歐盟或者是其他的國家對於台灣站在這個重要的戰略位置上面的重視因此我們在購買武器上面要對比過去要來的至少有進展這是肯定的"},{"start":491.437,"end":510.41,"text":"那麼只是說我們如何讓民眾認為在自己增強防衛自主上面有其必要性而且能夠展現到我們國防防衛對全民來講是重要的我想這個部分國防部恐怕還是要再多一點更多的說明喔那麼另外其實我要講的就是"},{"start":511.53,"end":526.78,"text":"在這個川習會之前喔這個川普特別在外交上面對外說了Taiwan is Taiwan但是在同一個時間點上面他又在他的這個social media上面講了在軍事上面他要施壓所以宣布要重啟"},{"start":527.901,"end":543.709,"text":"和試驗那麼現在外交圈或者是整個國際政治上面會認為說這會不會是一個川普的所謂的組合圈一方面宣示台灣在台海上面的安全的一個重要性的這個戰略地位"},{"start":544.87,"end":550.693,"text":"但是另外一方面他也認為要延伸嚇阻對於中國上面所必要的一些防衛的動作當然我不認為這個所謂宣布重啟核試驗是一個對的方向因為畢竟其實這個一旦這個造成這個所謂的核爆對全球來講都是一個非常嚴重的傷害"},{"start":565.702,"end":572.765,"text":"部長怎麼來看呢川普在這一陣子不論是在外交的宣示又或者在軍事上面的動作對於台灣的影響性上對台灣的安全上面那麼美國的延伸式的嚇阻模式對台灣有什麼樣的影響"},{"start":580.723,"end":599.858,"text":"我想美國還是將印太作為它一個戰略核心所以就這個核子的武器美國也看到中國也不斷地在增強它的核子武器的數量"},{"start":601.079,"end":629.138,"text":"所以我想這個也是強化對中的一個嚇阻力道那當然其次就是如果我們看到這個中美現在也進行這個防漲的一個會議那如果你仔細看這個Hexes他事實上提到的第一點還是以實力實力來維持這個區域和平的穩定那當然我們會"},{"start":631.099,"end":654.69,"text":"有期待看到當然美中的這個溝通機制是有要有利於區域的和平跟穩定來降低這個他在衝突跟誤判的風險但是我想剛我提到的就是美國的戰爭部長他很明白的強調還是要以實力來維護區域的和平穩定那所以我們當然這邊也要呼籲中國作為一個負責任的大國的話"},{"start":657.29,"end":681.953,"text":"也應該要在行動上面放棄對周邊國家的揮帶欽拗跟這個停止各種的軍事威脅對啦 我覺得這就像是我們健身的人其實是希望自己身體變強壯但是不是身體變強壯之後去霸凌人家我想這個應該就是台灣目前在國防戰力上面必須要擁有一定的實力最重要的"},{"start":682.333,"end":687.72,"text":"那麼另外當然就是本席在有關於針對這一年的總預算的時候特別的關注有關於九曲塘營區啦關田營區跟長峰營區的這個所謂工程延宕的部分我也看到了今天我們在報告當中有特別提到了"},{"start":698.334,"end":716.406,"text":"就是這個有關於軍事的建設的部分喔那麼其實我知道部長也非常重視就是有關PCM就是專管公司管理不當導致這個履約爭議而整體來說也造成了就是我們在營區的建制上面有延誤喔其實我只想問那麼在部長重視以及我們包括我們陸軍參謀也非常"},{"start":721.929,"end":724.153,"text":"參謀長非常重視的情況底下個案解決了但是未來精進的部分呢在有關於怎麼樣就責或是怎麼樣建立這個賞罰制度上面喔那麼是不是針對這個部分有更進一步的說明"},{"start":737.128,"end":762.207,"text":"包委员陆军参谋长向您做简要的报告在委员的指导和部长召集研讨相关会议之后第一个我们四权统一过去在专管跟统包它是分别由司令部和使用单位也就是军团来定定那导致在军团对于专管公司没有相关的督导的约束"},{"start":762.227,"end":780.247,"text":"约束令约束令那在这一段我们已经把它修正全部事权统一由军团来定定但是司令部责无旁贷他仍然是每个月或是是这个军团反应的问题来做一个定期的一个会议的检讨那第二个也就是建立一个"},{"start":781.028,"end":807.721,"text":"相關不管是我們不偏袒專管以及同胞都會建立一個法則的機制然後這些也都納入到相關的工訓中心的這些營工的班隊裡面列入教材 以上報告好 那麼我也希望對於這種有問題的不論是專管公司或是包商還是要有所謂的黑名單制度這個部分就希望能夠加強因為畢竟只要是工程延宕最後受損的都是要使用的國軍地修好 謝謝謝謝 謝偉"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":359,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時35分）謝謝主席，主席，有請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["林委員楚茵：其他列席官員如果有需要補充的，就請自行到臺前來。"],["顧部長立雄：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。其實在前面幾位委員的詢答當中，部長都已經針對今天大家提出的一些有關於國軍現在整體軍事採購相關進度做了說明，在詢問你之前，我想先請教這個週六、日有一個跟國防、外交有關的議題，就是CNN報導根據不明消息來源指出，川習會當天，臺灣的外交部長林佳龍設宴，但美方高層臨時缺席。這個消息來源是不明確的，當時就被渲染成好像我們臺灣在外交上充滿了困境跟挫折感，不過外交部馬上做了澄清，當時大家就講了現在所謂的疑美論，不只在外交部氾濫，甚至於包括國防採購的部分，其實也充斥著所謂的疑美論。這張圖是本席特別找到的，我不想幫中國官媒宣傳，但可以看到中國官媒很喜歡針對臺灣的戰機或者軍購做這樣的報導，比如：島內網友諷我們買F-16戰機是所謂榨汁機操作、美國與民進黨聯手榨到臺灣身無分文。國民黨新任黨主席鄭麗文在接受外國媒體訪問時特別提到，針對賴清德總統提到要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%，基本上他認為太多了，或者比較精準的講法是，他認為不需要這麼多，即使外國媒體直接跟他說中國的軍備也在增加當中，但是他還是認為這個數字太高了，所以我其實還蠻感謝召委今天特別安排這個主題，讓國防部有機會把話說清楚，但是我想講的是，當中國不斷透過他們的官媒釋放出臺灣不需要這麼多軍購，或者臺灣的軍購都是當美國的冤大頭的報導時，當然美國做了很多報告，其實也不只是美國，包括歐盟，包括其他的國家，大家都在講疑美論現在已經成為中國操作的方向。好，現在問題來了，部長，面對所謂疑美論這樣的認知作戰，從外交到國防，你們是不是也應該適時地做一些澄清？我為什麼說今天召委安排這樣一個專報非常好？因為至少讓國防部有機會把話講清楚，就像剛剛也特別提到的，該交件的交件了，沒有交件的部分，有它存在的原因，但是這種所謂搭配的組合權，確實會讓國人對於提升國防自主，又或者是讓中國針對臺灣國防的部分來下所謂疑美論這樣的毒藥，還是有所影響，部長，對此，你有沒有什麼回應？"],["顧部長立雄：首先第一點，向美國軍購的這些相關武器，包括剛剛提到的拖式2B標槍、海馬士、M1A2，甚至還有Altius-600等等這些攻擊無人機，事實上都是如期的在交貨，或者是有些已經交運完畢了。那確實是有少數的，包括我們剛剛講的那三個案子，當然大家最關切的是F-16V這個部分，那我們也一再說明說這個已經有50架在線組裝，所以我們認為明年也一定會有飛機來進行交運。這樣子的延宕，不代表美國他不重視跟我們的軍購案，反過來講是我們可以看得到美方加速來進行，然後讓這些軍購案的延宕能夠儘速的改善，這樣的一個努力。那對於我們來講的話，我們國防部當然還是要針對這樣的認知作戰，我們應該是要秉於即時收報之後，然後來立即澄清這樣的一個原則，主動掌握這些聲量，然後適時的處置，這個是我們國防部應該要努力來做的。"],["林委員楚茵：面對現在最大的在野黨黨主席，也就是鄭麗文，他在接受國際媒體專訪的時候特別提到了，就是賴清德總統要把我們的國防預算拉升到GDP的3%，他認為這樣子是過多了，但是其實過去朱立倫也曾經表示，他是支持國防預算比重超過3%，只是他反對臺灣跟美國購買所謂戰爭用的武器設備。面對這樣子的整體反應，國防部怎麼樣來對外做應對，或是你怎麼看？"],["顧部長立雄：總統也一再地宣示要以實力來取得和平，那國防部的立場是認為，我們跟美國的立場在這方面都是一致，就是整個亞太區域的和平、穩定跟繁榮，是美國也是全球所關切的一個核心利益。我們為了要達成嚇阻，我們一定要強化我們的國防實力，因為我們是站在一個對抗的最前緣，如果我們自己不先強化我們自我防衛的能力跟決心的話，我想就不足以產生嚇阻，如果不足以產生嚇阻的話，那中國冒進的可能性就會增加，所以我們國人一定要同意要用實力，然後依照我們防衛作戰的需求、依照我們的敵情威脅、依照我們建軍整備的情況，來籌購我們必要的武器。","那也不可諱言的就是說，現在願意公開按照臺灣關係法跟六項保證，願意提供我們相關的防衛性武器，我們如果要軍購，除了我們商購跟委置的部分以外，最大的軍售國來源當然就是美國，所以我們跟美國購買我們認為防衛作戰能力所必要的武器，然後合乎我們建軍整備的要求，我想這個都是必要的，也希望國人能夠一體來加以支持。"],["林委員楚茵：我是滿認同部長所言，其實在這幾年，因為臺灣受到國際間的重視，尤其是除了美國之外，其他歐盟或者是其他的國家，對於臺灣站在這個重要戰略位置上面的重視，因此我們在購買武器上，對比過去至少要來得有進展，這是肯定的，只是我們如何讓民眾認為自己增強防衛自主上有其必要性，而且能夠展現到我們的國防防衛，對全民來講是重要的，我想這個部分國防部恐怕還是要有再多一點的說明。","另外，其實我要講的是，在川習會之前，川普特別在外交上對外說了Taiwan is Taiwan，但是在同一個時間點上，他又在他的Truth Social media上面講了，在軍事上面他要施壓，所以宣布要重啟核試驗。現在外交圈或者是整個國際政治上會認為說，這會不會是川普所謂的組合拳，一方面宣示臺灣在臺海上面的安全及重要性的戰略地位，但是另外一方面，他也認為要延伸嚇阻對於中國所必要的一些防衛動作，當然我不認為所謂宣布重啟核試驗是一個對的方向，因為一旦造成所謂的核爆，對全球來講都是一個非常嚴重的傷害。那麼部長怎麼來看川普在這一陣子，不論是在外交的宣示又或者在軍事上面的動作，對於臺灣的影響性、對於臺灣的安全上面，美國延伸式的嚇阻模式對臺灣有什麼樣的影響？"],["顧部長立雄：我想美國還是將印太作為他的戰略核心，所以就這一個核子的武器，美國也看到中國不斷地在增強他核子武器的數量，所以我想這個也是強化對中的一個嚇阻力道。其次就是，我們看到中美現在也進行防長的會議，但如果你仔細看Hegseth，他事實上提到的第一點還是實力，以實力來維持區域和平的穩定。當然我們會期待看到美中的這個溝通機制要有利於區域的和平跟穩定，來降低臺海衝突跟誤判的風險，但是我想剛剛我提到的就是美國的國防部長Hegseth，他很明白的強調還是要以實力來維護區域的和平穩定，所以我們當然也要呼籲中國，作為一個負責任的大國，也應該要在行動上面放棄對周邊國家的灰帶侵擾跟停止各種的軍事威脅。"],["林委員楚茵：對啦！我覺得這就像我們健身的人，其實是希望自己身體變強壯，但不是身體變強壯之後去霸凌人家，我想這個應該就是臺灣目前在國防戰力上面，必須要擁有一定的實力，也是最重要的。","另外，本席在針對這一年總預算的時候，特別關注有關於九曲堂營區、官田營區跟長風營區所謂工程延宕的部分，我也看到今天你們在報告當中有特別提到，就是有關於軍事建設的部分，其實我知道部長也非常重視，就是有關於PCM，就是專管公司管理不當導致履約爭議，而整體來說也造成了我們在營區的建置上面有延誤。其實我只是想問，在部長重視以及包括我們陸軍參謀長也非常重視的情況底下，個案解決了，但是未來精進的部分，在有關於怎麼樣究責或是怎麼樣建立賞罰制度上面，是不是針對這個部分有更進一步的說明？"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，陸軍參謀長向您做簡要的報告。在委員的指導和部長召集研討相關會議之後，第一個，我們事權統一，過去專管跟統包它是分別由司令部和使用單位，也就是軍團來訂定，導致軍團對於專管公司沒有相關督導的……"],["林委員楚茵：督導的約束力。"],["陳參謀長建義：約束力，那在這一段我們已經把它修正，全部事權統一由軍團來訂定，但是司令部責無旁貸，他仍然是每個月或是視軍團反映的問題來做一個定期會議的檢討。第二個，也就是建立一個相關……我們不偏袒專管以及統包，都會建立一個罰則的機制，然後這些也都納入到相關工訓中心的這些營工班隊裡面，列入教材。以上報告。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我也希望對於這種有問題的，不論是專管公司或是包商，還是要有所謂的黑名單制度，這個部分希望能夠加強，因為畢竟只要是工程延宕，最後受損的都是要使用的國軍弟兄，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢。不好意思，也在這裡順便宣告一下：待會兒王定宇委員質詢完畢以後，我們休息5分鐘，抱歉。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-11","speakers":["馬文君","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","林憶君","黃國昌","葉元之"],"page_start":315,"meetingDate":["2025-11-03"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「近年國軍各項軍事工程落後及軍、商購案延宕原因分析及具體應處\n作為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149101_00012"}}}