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\"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 928.457, \"end\": 928.617, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 928.617, \"end\": 928.897, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 928.897, \"end\": 929.938, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 929.938, \"end\": 930.238, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 930.238, \"end\": 930.418, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 930.418, \"end\": 930.618, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 930.618, \"end\": 931.018, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 931.018, \"end\": 931.138, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 931.138, \"end\": 931.238, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 931.238, \"end\": 931.278, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 931.278, \"end\": 931.618, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 931.618, \"end\": 931.738, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 931.738, \"end\": 932.318, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 932.318, \"end\": 933.559, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 933.559, \"end\": 933.659, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 933.659, \"end\": 933.819, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 933.819, \"end\": 934.139, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 934.139, \"end\": 934.259, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 934.259, \"end\": 934.379, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 934.379, \"end\": 937.74, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 937.74, \"end\": 938.46, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"盧\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 938.46, \"end\": 939.76, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 939.76, \"end\": 939.9, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"妍\", \"start\": 939.9, \"end\": 939.92, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,882 --> 00:00:36,914\n主席有請院長跟原住民委員會主委請委員長備詢原民會主委陸委員好委員長好主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去\n\n2\n00:00:39,418 --> 00:01:03,283\n帶衛環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案它在我們業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間那衍生了很多問題那因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的\n\n3\n00:01:04,598 --> 00:01:25,699\n核酸分子說不是他的我們請國產署來講國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題可以嗎可以今天\n\n4\n00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:42,519\n我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助\n\n5\n00:01:43,940 --> 00:02:00,716\n結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋始部落統一了不過尋始部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石不要蒼蠅\n\n6\n00:02:03,035 --> 00:02:30,508\n已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長潘孟安縣長到現在的鄒村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年的問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告\n\n7\n00:02:32,596 --> 00:02:58,102\n這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟相關所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是\n\n8\n00:02:58,888 --> 00:03:25,308\n到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家\n\n9\n00:03:26,317 --> 00:03:47,564\n就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對這個河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實他一望無際你根本就看不到邊境的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的\n\n10\n00:03:48,064 --> 00:04:04,136\n所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意\n\n11\n00:04:04,756 --> 00:04:24,035\n我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的資商同意權是不是要用\n\n12\n00:04:24,535 --> 00:04:40,348\n是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是\n\n13\n00:04:41,269 --> 00:05:08,546\n根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意嘛結果是一而再再而三的諮商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷\n\n14\n00:05:08,991 --> 00:05:28,609\n判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會很緊急你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組\n\n15\n00:05:30,393 --> 00:05:56,070\n我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分\n\n16\n00:05:56,750 --> 00:06:25,923\n我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量我們是盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落\n\n17\n00:06:27,248 --> 00:06:54,255\n還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的一個會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發\n\n18\n00:06:56,255 --> 00:07:24,999\n如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形原民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面\n\n19\n00:07:25,384 --> 00:07:42,783\nOK我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情\n\n20\n00:07:43,323 --> 00:08:03,491\n所以部落自覺它的行政部門不管它的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民主諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣\n\n21\n00:08:04,124 --> 00:08:20,701\n我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法要把它拉到法律的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後\n\n22\n00:08:21,241 --> 00:08:45,564\n看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委這個瑟布利溪事件發生在關旭年間就是這個豐港溪他曾經造成\n\n23\n00:08:46,524 --> 00:09:00,661\n原汉冲突造成素人死亡当时的清朝有处理可是现在已经过了133年还是呈现这样的一个问题也就是这是一个原汉冲突的一个地域地带所以应该要\n\n24\n00:09:01,141 --> 00:09:30,058\n很明确要快速的或者说去把60年悬崖未决的问题把它提升上来法律上面来解决返山溪也是这样丰港溪也是这样为什么会这样呢因为它地处屏东县政府的距离非常遥远你要去稽查它不容易它释放肥料的时间都是三更半夜你根本就没有人力去稽查才会造成这样的一个结果造成在地的居民苦不堪言\n\n25\n00:09:30,694 --> 00:09:53,939\n跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望把這個事件趕快給他落幕\n\n26\n00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:11,127\n資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學\n\n27\n00:10:11,926 --> 00:10:27,342\n目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障\n\n28\n00:10:27,822 --> 00:10:42,059\n交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善\n\n29\n00:10:42,895 --> 00:11:02,291\n我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到\n\n30\n00:11:03,132 --> 00:11:31,826\n高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了中高級的這個起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來來教我們的主語\n\n31\n00:11:32,686 --> 00:11:51,844\n我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的四千塊我是覺得不能每一個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師\n\n32\n00:11:52,685 --> 00:12:21,695\n常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名\n\n33\n00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:44,131\n就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師我們現在重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得高級\n\n34\n00:12:45,089 --> 00:13:05,976\n甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦\n\n35\n00:13:07,056 --> 00:13:27,463\n然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺是選在那邊4000所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學4人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎\n\n36\n00:13:29,053 --> 00:13:50,078\n他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師去年台東大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是\n\n37\n00:13:51,323 --> 00:14:04,837\n園民會做園民會的教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人我人在相公所上班\n\n38\n00:14:06,072 --> 00:14:28,346\n中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我很清楚公所主委的以推人員\n\n39\n00:14:28,826 --> 00:14:52,365\n他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎\n\n40\n00:14:54,006 --> 00:15:15,493\n應該就是最好的就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是\n\n41\n00:15:18,235 --> 00:15:39,920\n所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程我會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好謝謝盧委員謝謝卓妍\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9882\t36914\t主席有請院長跟原住民委員會主委請委員長備詢原民會主委陸委員好 委員長好 主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去\n39418\t63283\t帶衛環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案它在我們業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間那衍生了很多問題那因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的\n64598\t85699\t核酸分子說不是他的我們請國產署來講 國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題可以嗎可以今天\n86440\t102519\t我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助\n103940\t120716\t結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋始部落統一了不過尋始部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石 不要蒼蠅\n123035\t150508\t已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長 潘孟安縣長到現在的鄒村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年的問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告\n152596\t178102\t這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟相關所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是\n178888\t205308\t到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家\n206317\t227564\t就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對這個河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實他一望無際你根本就看不到邊境的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的\n228064\t244136\t所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意\n244756\t264035\t我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清 釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的資商同意權是不是要用\n264535\t280348\t是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是\n281269\t308546\t根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意嘛結果是一而再再而三的諮商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷\n308991\t328609\t判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會很緊急你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組\n330393\t356070\t我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分\n356750\t385923\t我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量我們是盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落\n387248\t414255\t還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的一個會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發\n416255\t444999\t如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形原民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會 我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面\n445384\t462783\tOK 我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村 丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情\n463323\t483491\t所以部落自覺它的行政部門不管它的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民主諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣\n484124\t500701\t我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法要把它拉到法律的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後\n501241\t525564\t看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委這個瑟布利溪事件發生在關旭年間就是這個豐港溪他曾經造成\n526524\t540661\t原汉冲突造成素人死亡当时的清朝有处理可是现在已经过了133年还是呈现这样的一个问题也就是这是一个原汉冲突的一个地域地带所以应该要\n541141\t570058\t很明确要快速的或者说去把60年悬崖未决的问题把它提升上来法律上面来解决返山溪也是这样丰港溪也是这样为什么会这样呢因为它地处屏东县政府的距离非常遥远你要去稽查它不容易它释放肥料的时间都是三更半夜你根本就没有人力去稽查才会造成这样的一个结果造成在地的居民苦不堪言\n570694\t593939\t跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望把這個事件趕快給他落幕\n597640\t611127\t資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼 好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學\n611926\t627342\t目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障\n627822\t642059\t交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善\n642895\t662291\t我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到\n663132\t691826\t高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了中高級的這個起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來來教我們的主語\n692686\t711844\t我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的 四千塊我是覺得不能每一個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師\n712685\t741695\t常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名\n742679\t764131\t就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師我們現在重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得高級\n765089\t785976\t甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦\n787056\t807463\t然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺是選在那邊4000所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學4人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎\n809053\t830078\t他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師去年台東大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是\n831323\t844837\t園民會做園民會的 教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人 我人在相公所上班\n846072\t868346\t中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我很清楚公所主委的以推人員\n868826\t892365\t他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎\n894006\t915493\t應該就是最好的就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是\n918235\t939920\t所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程我會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝卓妍\n","txt":"主席有請院長跟原住民委員會主委請委員長備詢原民會主委陸委員好 委員長好 主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去\n帶衛環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案它在我們業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間那衍生了很多問題那因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的\n核酸分子說不是他的我們請國產署來講 國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題可以嗎可以今天\n我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助\n結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋始部落統一了不過尋始部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石 不要蒼蠅\n已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長 潘孟安縣長到現在的鄒村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年的問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告\n這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟相關所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是\n到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家\n就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對這個河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實他一望無際你根本就看不到邊境的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的\n所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意\n我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清 釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的資商同意權是不是要用\n是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是\n根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意嘛結果是一而再再而三的諮商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷\n判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會很緊急你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組\n我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分\n我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量我們是盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落\n還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的一個會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發\n如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形原民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會 我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面\nOK 我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村 丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情\n所以部落自覺它的行政部門不管它的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民主諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣\n我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法要把它拉到法律的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後\n看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委這個瑟布利溪事件發生在關旭年間就是這個豐港溪他曾經造成\n原汉冲突造成素人死亡当时的清朝有处理可是现在已经过了133年还是呈现这样的一个问题也就是这是一个原汉冲突的一个地域地带所以应该要\n很明确要快速的或者说去把60年悬崖未决的问题把它提升上来法律上面来解决返山溪也是这样丰港溪也是这样为什么会这样呢因为它地处屏东县政府的距离非常遥远你要去稽查它不容易它释放肥料的时间都是三更半夜你根本就没有人力去稽查才会造成这样的一个结果造成在地的居民苦不堪言\n跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望把這個事件趕快給他落幕\n資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼 好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學\n目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障\n交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善\n我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到\n高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了中高級的這個起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來來教我們的主語\n我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的 四千塊我是覺得不能每一個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師\n常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名\n就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師我們現在重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得高級\n甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦\n然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺是選在那邊4000所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學4人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎\n他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師去年台東大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是\n園民會做園民會的 教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人 我人在相公所上班\n中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我很清楚公所主委的以推人員\n他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎\n應該就是最好的就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是\n所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程我會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝卓妍\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.882 --> 00:36.914\n主席有請院長跟原住民委員會主委請委員長備詢原民會主委陸委員好委員長好主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去\n\n00:39.418 --> 01:03.283\n帶衛環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案它在我們業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間那衍生了很多問題那因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的\n\n01:04.598 --> 01:25.699\n核酸分子說不是他的我們請國產署來講國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題可以嗎可以今天\n\n01:26.440 --> 01:42.519\n我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助\n\n01:43.940 --> 02:00.716\n結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋始部落統一了不過尋始部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石不要蒼蠅\n\n02:03.035 --> 02:30.508\n已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長潘孟安縣長到現在的鄒村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年的問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告\n\n02:32.596 --> 02:58.102\n這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟相關所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是\n\n02:58.888 --> 03:25.308\n到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家\n\n03:26.317 --> 03:47.564\n就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對這個河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實他一望無際你根本就看不到邊境的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的\n\n03:48.064 --> 04:04.136\n所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意\n\n04:04.756 --> 04:24.035\n我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的資商同意權是不是要用\n\n04:24.535 --> 04:40.348\n是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是\n\n04:41.269 --> 05:08.546\n根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意嘛結果是一而再再而三的諮商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷\n\n05:08.991 --> 05:28.609\n判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會很緊急你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組\n\n05:30.393 --> 05:56.070\n我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分\n\n05:56.750 --> 06:25.923\n我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量我們是盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落\n\n06:27.248 --> 06:54.255\n還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的一個會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發\n\n06:56.255 --> 07:24.999\n如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形原民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面\n\n07:25.384 --> 07:42.783\nOK我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情\n\n07:43.323 --> 08:03.491\n所以部落自覺它的行政部門不管它的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民主諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣\n\n08:04.124 --> 08:20.701\n我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法要把它拉到法律的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後\n\n08:21.241 --> 08:45.564\n看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委這個瑟布利溪事件發生在關旭年間就是這個豐港溪他曾經造成\n\n08:46.524 --> 09:00.661\n原汉冲突造成素人死亡当时的清朝有处理可是现在已经过了133年还是呈现这样的一个问题也就是这是一个原汉冲突的一个地域地带所以应该要\n\n09:01.141 --> 09:30.058\n很明确要快速的或者说去把60年悬崖未决的问题把它提升上来法律上面来解决返山溪也是这样丰港溪也是这样为什么会这样呢因为它地处屏东县政府的距离非常遥远你要去稽查它不容易它释放肥料的时间都是三更半夜你根本就没有人力去稽查才会造成这样的一个结果造成在地的居民苦不堪言\n\n09:30.694 --> 09:53.939\n跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望把這個事件趕快給他落幕\n\n09:57.640 --> 10:11.127\n資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學\n\n10:11.926 --> 10:27.342\n目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障\n\n10:27.822 --> 10:42.059\n交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善\n\n10:42.895 --> 11:02.291\n我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到\n\n11:03.132 --> 11:31.826\n高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了中高級的這個起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來來教我們的主語\n\n11:32.686 --> 11:51.844\n我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的四千塊我是覺得不能每一個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師\n\n11:52.685 --> 12:21.695\n常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名\n\n12:22.679 --> 12:44.131\n就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師我們現在重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得高級\n\n12:45.089 --> 13:05.976\n甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦\n\n13:07.056 --> 13:27.463\n然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺是選在那邊4000所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學4人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎\n\n13:29.053 --> 13:50.078\n他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師去年台東大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是\n\n13:51.323 --> 14:04.837\n園民會做園民會的教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人我人在相公所上班\n\n14:06.072 --> 14:28.346\n中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我很清楚公所主委的以推人員\n\n14:28.826 --> 14:52.365\n他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎\n\n14:54.006 --> 15:15.493\n應該就是最好的就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是\n\n15:18.235 --> 15:39.920\n所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程我會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好謝謝盧委員謝謝卓妍\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.882,"end":36.914,"text":"主席有請院長跟原住民委員會主委請委員長備詢原民會主委陸委員好 委員長好 主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去"},{"start":39.418,"end":63.283,"text":"帶衛環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案它在我們業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間那衍生了很多問題那因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的"},{"start":64.598,"end":85.699,"text":"核酸分子說不是他的我們請國產署來講 國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題可以嗎可以今天"},{"start":86.44,"end":102.519,"text":"我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助"},{"start":103.94,"end":120.716,"text":"結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋始部落統一了不過尋始部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石 不要蒼蠅"},{"start":123.035,"end":150.508,"text":"已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長 潘孟安縣長到現在的鄒村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年的問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告"},{"start":152.596,"end":178.102,"text":"這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟相關所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是"},{"start":178.888,"end":205.308,"text":"到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家"},{"start":206.317,"end":227.564,"text":"就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對這個河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實他一望無際你根本就看不到邊境的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的"},{"start":228.064,"end":244.136,"text":"所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意"},{"start":244.756,"end":264.035,"text":"我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清 釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的資商同意權是不是要用"},{"start":264.535,"end":280.348,"text":"是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是"},{"start":281.269,"end":308.546,"text":"根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意嘛結果是一而再再而三的諮商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷"},{"start":308.991,"end":328.609,"text":"判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會很緊急你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組"},{"start":330.393,"end":356.07,"text":"我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分"},{"start":356.75,"end":385.923,"text":"我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量我們是盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落"},{"start":387.248,"end":414.255,"text":"還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的一個會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發"},{"start":416.255,"end":444.999,"text":"如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形原民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會 我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面"},{"start":445.384,"end":462.783,"text":"OK 我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村 丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情"},{"start":463.323,"end":483.491,"text":"所以部落自覺它的行政部門不管它的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民主諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣"},{"start":484.124,"end":500.701,"text":"我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法要把它拉到法律的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後"},{"start":501.241,"end":525.564,"text":"看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委這個瑟布利溪事件發生在關旭年間就是這個豐港溪他曾經造成"},{"start":526.524,"end":540.661,"text":"原汉冲突造成素人死亡当时的清朝有处理可是现在已经过了133年还是呈现这样的一个问题也就是这是一个原汉冲突的一个地域地带所以应该要"},{"start":541.141,"end":570.058,"text":"很明确要快速的或者说去把60年悬崖未决的问题把它提升上来法律上面来解决返山溪也是这样丰港溪也是这样为什么会这样呢因为它地处屏东县政府的距离非常遥远你要去稽查它不容易它释放肥料的时间都是三更半夜你根本就没有人力去稽查才会造成这样的一个结果造成在地的居民苦不堪言"},{"start":570.694,"end":593.939,"text":"跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望把這個事件趕快給他落幕"},{"start":597.64,"end":611.127,"text":"資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼 好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學"},{"start":611.926,"end":627.342,"text":"目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障"},{"start":627.822,"end":642.059,"text":"交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善"},{"start":642.895,"end":662.291,"text":"我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到"},{"start":663.132,"end":691.826,"text":"高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了中高級的這個起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來來教我們的主語"},{"start":692.686,"end":711.844,"text":"我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的 四千塊我是覺得不能每一個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師"},{"start":712.685,"end":741.695,"text":"常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名"},{"start":742.679,"end":764.131,"text":"就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師我們現在重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得高級"},{"start":765.089,"end":785.976,"text":"甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦"},{"start":787.056,"end":807.463,"text":"然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺是選在那邊4000所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學4人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎"},{"start":809.053,"end":830.078,"text":"他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師去年台東大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是"},{"start":831.323,"end":844.837,"text":"園民會做園民會的 教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人 我人在相公所上班"},{"start":846.072,"end":868.346,"text":"中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我很清楚公所主委的以推人員"},{"start":868.826,"end":892.365,"text":"他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎"},{"start":894.006,"end":915.493,"text":"應該就是最好的就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是"},{"start":918.235,"end":939.92,"text":"所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程我會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝卓妍"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":94,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（9時16分）主席，有請院長跟原住民族委員會主委。"],["主席：請卓院長及原民會主委備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：盧委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：院長好，主委好。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：昨天我帶衛環委員會到獅子鄉去考察楓港溪的陳情案，當地的業者在楓港溪種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間，因此衍生了很多問題，因為到那邊時發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位，比如原民會說不是他管的，河川分署也說不是他管的，我們請國產署來講，國產署說還要去釐清，比較可以確定的是，它是屬於傳統領域，有關傳統領域要行使同意權的時候是不是要部落諮商同意的部分，我們就從這個實務運作的問題來做探討，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以。"],["盧委員縣一：今天我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序上的把關，第三條規定如果涉及原基法第二十一條的時候，如果有困難，可以請求中央原民會協助。結果部落跟我說他們在6年前就已經行使部落同意了，不過到現在縣府一概沒有作為，也就是說，對這項決議不聞不問，他們抗議不要雞屎、不要蒼蠅，但這麼多年來沒有人去看過，甚至我去那裡考察，縣府連派員都沒有，屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣？從曹啟鴻縣長、潘孟安縣長到現在的周春米縣長，你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業，可是對於這樣一個多年來影響到部落族人生活的議題，縣府的態度卻是不派員。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，有關這塊土地，我們都知道長久以來就是有在種西瓜，這個大家都知道……"],["盧委員縣一：對，他合法承租的土地大概只有10%，90%是不合法的，但是完全沒有人管。"],["曾主任委員智勇：因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地，我們跟國產署希望縣政府跟鄉公所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是原住民保留地或者是林有地。"],["盧委員縣一：他們有兩個訴求：第一個就是未登記地沒有取得租約權的話就不應該種植，或者去追究他為什麼可以種植這麼大的區域，造成那邊的地形地貌改變、河道改變，然後他私自開闢道路、建工寮，整個河床變成是他們的家！"],["曾主任委員智勇：就河道的改變來講，縣府水利局會對河道的問題有一些裁罰。"],["盧委員縣一：如果主委有空經過那裡的話可以去看一下，那裡可以媲美美濃最近在講的那些問題，其實那裡一望無際，根本就看不到邊際的西瓜園是沒有合法租約的，所以我們可以來啟動所謂的部落諮商同意，也就是說，如果他們不認定6年前的決議，對於這個決議不理不睬，是不是中央原民會這邊可以再次啟動我們的部落同意？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們現在已經發文給縣政府及公所了，昨天就發文了，我們也會下去直接跟公所及縣政府來談一下，要先把這個土地歸屬的問題予以釐清，釐清之後，原住民的諮商同意權是不是要行使，也是要就個案再來跟縣政府及鄉公所……"],["盧委員縣一：所以我建議原民會應該有一個專責單位，像上次的姑姑山採礦事件，動不動就諮商同意，根本就還沒有到……可能3個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意，可是根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間，他就是為了要部落同意嘛！結果一而再、再而三的諮商同意，如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題，對於比較困難的問題、專業的問題、涉及那麼多利益的問題，是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關的中立機關來做？"],["曾主任委員智勇：目前就是我們會裡面有直接主動的來協助公所判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權，我們也在協助縣政府，這個部分也請委員放心，我們都會很積極去做。"],["盧委員縣一：我知道你們現在是有一個審議小組嘛……"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["盧委員縣一：可是我的問題是現在一而再、再而三發生的時候，我覺得那個專業度並不夠，好像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任，所以我覺得你應該再設立一個專責小組。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們會再更積極地來做，來協調公所啦。"],["盧委員縣一：第二個就是這次你們的修訂有提到部落成員可以章程自訂，也就是說，之前我們姑姑山這邊是用一戶嘛，一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性？而且如果用戶籍的話，可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體，所以要去思考設籍的部分以及不要被戶籍來框架的部分，我希望在這個修法通過之後，部落要如何寫章程、如何提供法律輔導、誰能協助審查等部分，主委能不能承諾你們可以來協助？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個我們都已經有納入在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面了，我們是儘量開放部落自主啦，尤其是可以以章程來決定多數決的定義，這個我們都尊重部落。"],["盧委員縣一：還有就是之前的知本光電案曾經發生過公所代行召集自決的會議，他們認為這個不符合我們自決的精神，所以你們這次的第十五條把它修正為第十八條，雖然保留代行召集，可是也增加部落分支的成員，不過這不是全然的自決，還是有一些公部門的介入，所以像紅葉的地熱開發，如果公所同時是申請人的話，誰來防止利益的衝突？這種情形原民會是不是應該明定代行召集這樣的行為應該是最後的手段，而民族自決priority是最先的……"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["盧委員縣一：代行召集是最後，如果是代行召集的案件，是不是應該公開其理由及會議紀錄？"],["曾主任委員智勇：會，我們也會把剛剛委員所講的部分放在這次的修正裡面。"],["盧委員縣一：OK。","最後，我們要講到諮商同意參與辦法的法律位階不足，因為還是管理辦法，所以才會造成6年前楓林村、丹路村已經自決了，但縣府不聞不問、不採納，也不去看到底發生了什麼事情，所以部落自決他的，但行政部門不管他的自決，有這樣的一個問題存在，所以一定要把這個自決提升到法律的位階，如果以後有一個原住民族諮商同意法的專法，你的想法是怎麼樣？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，現在這個諮商同意辦法，我們有一段時間，我們要先公告，讓部落有更多的意見進來，希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法，至於要把它拉到法律的位階，必須這個辦法先做修正，然後施行一段時間之後，看看是不是仍然覺得它的位階還不夠，這樣我們就會報請院裡面來做決定。"],["盧委員縣一：我們希望有一個時間表，而不是像現在看到這樣60年懸而未決的土地問題。","我想問你，主委，射不力溪（就是楓港溪）事件發生在光緒年間，因原漢衝突曾經造成數人死亡，當時的清朝有處理，可是現在已經過了133年，還是呈現這樣的問題。換言之，這是一個原漢衝突的地域（地帶），所以應該要很明確、要快速的，或者說把這個60年懸而未決的問題提升到法律上面來解決。枋山溪也是這樣，楓港溪也是這樣，為什麼會這樣呢？因為它跟屏東縣政府的距離非常遙遠，要去稽查不容易，業者施放肥料的時間都是三更半夜，政府根本就沒有人力去稽查，才會造成這樣的結果而讓在地的居民苦不堪言。"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，請你放心，我們很快就會去獅子鄉，我也有密切跟朱宏恩鄉長在聯繫，過去獅子鄉這裡，我們也很清楚丹路村長還有楓林村長，他們也很關心這個案子，我們會下去，我會親自下去，到時候如果委員有時間，我們一起去，希望讓這個事件趕快落幕。"],["盧委員縣一：針對諮商同意的法律位階，我希望能夠有一個期程，至少讓族人知道我們執行的是什麼樣的法律、政府可以保障我什麼，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["盧委員縣一：接下來要談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學，目前大部分的問題在於認證跟專職老師大概只占了20%，大部分的老師都是所謂的支援老師。支援老師占那麼高的比例，它的問題大概就是薪資低、缺保障、交通風險高，上次臺南就有族語老師來回奔波在各個學校之間而發生車禍死亡的案件，然後寒暑假沒有薪資，這個部分你有沒有思考該如何改善？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，關於族語老師，我們現在碰到的問題是有資格任教的，現在的要求是一定要取得高級要不然就是優級的認證，我們也在教育部的平臺上建議，希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到高級或是優級。其實我們現在已經修正了，取得中高級認證的就可以來當老師。"],["盧委員縣一：我知道。我的意思是像剛剛我給你看的，就支援教師的薪資低、缺保障、交通風險高以及寒暑假沒有薪資這部分，你們有沒有解決的方案，或者說你有沒有思考以後要怎麼弄？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個我們會來協助，尤其寒暑假的時候其實也有很多夏令營等等，也可以請老師來教我們的族語。"],["盧委員縣一：據我所知，目前都會區的交通補助大概是4,000塊，但我覺得不能每個地區的補助金額都一樣，所以這個部分就可以調整……"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["盧委員縣一：然後他的保險是不是應該要提高？比如說上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼27所學校的族語老師。"],["曾主任委員智勇：常常都會區就是這樣，比如說新北市這麼大，原住民學生分布得很散……"],["盧委員縣一：對，來來回回，我是說他交通上的安全。然後如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業，結果寒暑假沒有薪資，他要怎麼繳房租，這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個我們會來了解，我們會來解決。"],["盧委員縣一：好。現在有一個問題是專職族語教師停滯不前，地方政府開缺，可是沒有人報名，你覺得呢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：開缺沒有人來報名，也一樣就是碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題，就是取得認證的老師很少，找不到老師。我們現在的重點就是，我們希望做專案培訓，邀請取得中高級認證的老師來報名，我們給他訓練一年，希望他取得高級甚至於優級的認證……"],["盧委員縣一：我希望你要設定一個KPI，目前正式的老師有252個，所謂支援老師大概有2,000位，你是不是至少設定一個目標，每年應增加多少比例的專職老師，而不是永遠都在那邊缺人又不知道該怎麼辦，然後你沒有提供誘因給他，然後就永遠缺都懸在那邊。全臺有4,000所學校，可是老師根本遠遠不夠，這個部分應該要想辦法去解決。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["盧委員縣一：然後去年臺東大學有4個人取得教師證，只有1個人獲聘，這又是什麼問題你知道嗎？現在的名稱很多，剛才講的是專職族語老師，現在是專任族語教師。去年臺東大學有4個人取得教師證，僅1個人獲聘，你知道原因是什麼嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不曉得。"],["盧委員縣一：它的原因就是學校不開缺，所以有的時候也要跟教育部門協調，因為常常就是原民會做原民會的，教育部做教育部的，縣府做縣府的，語推人員就是這個問題，現在語推人員呈現的問題又是什麼呢？就是我在鄉公所上班，中央部會給我錢，然後我的績效是縣府打的，這個人等於是鄉公所叫不動，可能他要做的事情又非常多，他要去符合縣府的規範，然後是領中央的錢，你知道語推人員的這個困境嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我很清楚公所的族語語推人員他們很辛苦啦！"],["盧委員縣一：對。"],["曾主任委員智勇：像瑪家鄉，他們有排灣族也有魯凱族，可是他們現在沒有魯凱族的族語老師，我們也在想辦法，應該明年……就是說因為瑪家鄉的魯凱族的族人還是很多……"],["盧委員縣一：我們一直希望行政層級能夠簡化流程，你讓這個人身兼很多身分，然後鄉公所也不知道該怎麼用他的時候，你不覺得會帶給鄉公所困擾嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["盧委員縣一：應該最好就是讓他占鄉公所的一個缺，然後中央來協助，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["盧委員縣一：縣府的話，像考績這個部分，如果是我們族語老師互相評比，我覺得這也是一個很好的方式啊！"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["盧委員縣一：而且現在在研究教材、提供研究語料、提供這些素材其實已經讓他們焦頭爛額了，你還要讓他被行政這些事情綁在那裡，讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂文化扎根的部分，所以我是覺得應該簡化行政流程。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，這個我們會跟縣政府這邊來做協調，我相信縣政府、鄉公所都可以談的啦！"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝盧委員、謝謝卓院長。","下一位請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["江啟臣","張智倫","盧縣一","黃健豪","麥玉珍","黃仁","高金素梅","黃珊珊","吳思瑤","李坤城","沈伯洋","莊瑞雄","王美惠","羅美玲","陳永康","郭國文","林德福","陳冠廷","陳秀寳","李彥秀","吳琪銘"],"page_start":135,"meetingDate":["2025-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00004","1148701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00009"}}}