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\"過\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 919.823, \"end\": 919.883, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 919.883, \"end\": 919.903, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 919.903, \"end\": 919.923, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,598 --> 00:00:04,496\n好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請行政院的卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:16,332 --> 00:00:40,389\n黃維豪院長好院長我想今天台股已經到兩萬八了台積電一千五看起來經濟榮景一片大好但是實際上什麼狀況實際上當然就是說我國的平均薪資薪資中位數大約在三萬八左右換句話說國人壽星階級有大概半數以下的民眾他的薪水不到三萬八所以中位數是這個概念\n\n3\n00:00:41,129 --> 00:01:05,168\n那這樣子的族群不只是旺股興碳三萬八大概不時不刻存三年才可以買台積電一張股票那更不用講買房子的問題所以我想今天主要的內政質詢我要跟院長跟部長來討論我們的住房政策我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策那本席在去年三月的時候府上任是初畢竟我是這個\n\n4\n00:01:07,190 --> 00:01:26,625\n年輕人算年輕人買房子也非常辛苦所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策去年3月我一就任立法委就提出相關的修法那跟院長也跟部長來分享我想在提案說明提案做很多次我們提案的這個內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外在育有未成年子女的家庭部分應該讓他額外獨立出來\n\n5\n00:01:29,727 --> 00:01:39,013\n用其他的方式來計算來保障或是鼓勵願意生小孩或是有生小孩的家庭他能夠入住社宅嗎因為現在有一種坊間一種說法\n\n6\n00:01:39,906 --> 00:02:07,414\n我買得起房子我就養不了孩子那我養得起孩子的時候我可能就買不起房子所以在雙子之間大家變成是兩難啊我到底要買房子好呢還是養孩子那如果小孩不小心懷孕了那生小孩之後我可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要為什麼我去年提出來那次現在也提出來表示說這一定是大家看到的相關的問題嘛那本席要講的是說今天\n\n7\n00:02:08,527 --> 00:02:36,815\n我們提的修正草案裡面我們希望的是說因為在原有的法規裡面在現有的法規裡面育有未成年子女兩人以上他本來是屬於弱勢的定義他定義裡面屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面但是我們認為說生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤生小孩這件事情就算你不是弱勢你也會生小孩我們都鼓勵全方位全社會大家都要鼓勵大家多生小孩所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來我們談到說這個權益的部分\n\n8\n00:02:38,936 --> 00:02:56,703\n我們看到內政部提的婚姻戶的社宅的身分別的戶數的配比把它分成優先戶跟一般戶優先戶裡面的20%要保留婚姻戶的保障一般戶裡面也是20%的保障我要跟院長跟部長討論說這個事情沒有對錯這是立場的問題就是說\n\n9\n00:03:00,270 --> 00:03:20,491\n我的邏輯,我提案的時候,我希望的是說,所謂婚育宅,應該不要排擠到本來的所謂優先戶,本來的弱勢戶,而是另外在本來的所謂一般戶裡面,提供一定比例的保障,讓生小孩,育有子女的家庭,能夠入住社會住宅。\n\n10\n00:03:21,232 --> 00:03:32,302\n但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面個別保障20%的就會預載我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是要推下去嗎還是有機會來修來調整\n\n11\n00:03:35,891 --> 00:03:52,050\n謝謝委員對社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定首先跟委員報告一下有跟住宅法把50%修為是弱勢其實我們在內政委會有討論過目前大概不會朝這個方向因為我們不認為現在的婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢\n\n12\n00:03:52,931 --> 00:04:07,117\n他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持那再來就是生多周少的問題現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外我們推出了叫多元興建的方式也就是說我們現在在包住代管\n\n13\n00:04:07,737 --> 00:04:26,570\n或者是其他如果有私人的企業願意協助我們來蓋這個社會住宅或是提供社會住宅的話那我們未來在婚姻家庭裡面這些的人就會增加那目前我們到年底之前推出1022戶大概分布在五都那因為台中比較沒有所以就沒有算進去待會我會給你討論到\n\n14\n00:04:27,671 --> 00:04:56,273\n那所以很希望說台中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央地方多跟中央政府來一起來協助那再來就是剛剛所說的就是你所謂的婚育宅裡面的這個小孩子或者是說即將要步入這個結婚的這個年輕人來講的話我們會跟衛福部來合作也就是說他如果領有這個媽媽手冊的結婚的家庭的話他在這個抽籤的比例上面會再給他多比較多的支持\n\n15\n00:04:56,733 --> 00:05:15,606\n所以就是總會員來講說大家對於婚姻宅都是樂觀其成但是因為婚姻宅的數目就是沒有那麼多所以還是要有抽籤為原則可是婚姻宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有譬如說結婚的補助或是生活津貼這方面的部分我們會再繼續加強當中那因為即將要開辦\n\n16\n00:05:16,627 --> 00:05:30,075\n我們認為開辦如果有這個方向的是很多人有需求的話會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面或者是我們財政部國土署財政部國產署所推的這個國產土地裡面再把它加重比例\n\n17\n00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:59,495\n部長那個一開始我想定義問題我沒有我剛剛也強調了婚育的部分我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面我也沒有修法把弱勢度提高這版本不是我的因為內政委會已經沒有對所以我沒有要這個東西我也沒有提這個案子我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障沒問題但是講的說我們為了鼓勵生育為了搶救我國的少子化我們希望的是說把所謂婚育的部分另外再鼓勵出來其他條件做這件事情我們現在正朝著這個方向這也是院長\n\n18\n00:05:59,795 --> 00:06:20,229\n部長跟你說明看數據就好婚姻戶有8%來自弱勢戶40%裡面有20%來自弱勢戶我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶我提供一個數據有台中的數據參考台中現階段婚姻戶裡面婚姻戶的資格佔弱勢戶的比例本來就已經高達20%\n\n19\n00:06:21,946 --> 00:06:35,982\n就換句話說本來所謂的優先戶或弱勢戶裡面他本來有生養子女的家庭就佔了20%所以你如果在另外再去加一個條件說在弱勢戶裡面要去放入所謂婚育的條件\n\n20\n00:06:37,103 --> 00:07:03,926\n反而我覺得這個比例來講幫助不大啦坦白講是幫助不大因為他本來就有20%我們不會朝著我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障所以剛剛除了直接這個社會住宅的進駐以外那還有包括像包租代管另外可能黃委員非常清楚就是租金補貼租金補貼在六都裡面台中市是算最高每一年大概高達五六十億以上\n\n21\n00:07:04,766 --> 00:07:20,871\n就是要準備回應我下一題做事務有很多的幫忙部長你看下一個就是我們看到中央很認真蓋了就是所謂社宅7個案場然後這個揮霧合計今年年底會有761這個你剛剛說1000多啦但總共不管我們可能數字有落差但不管760還是你講1000出頭\n\n22\n00:07:24,228 --> 00:07:51,727\n在新北高雄台北都有很遺憾的台中真的是掛零這個部分是要用什麼東西來補因為我想台中那過去幾年台中地方設宅的這個興建的比例興建設宅然後優先提供給婚姻的部分目前來講台中整體的這個育有未滿六歲子女入住的比例是14.7提供很多租金補貼等等的這個是等於換句話說我要提這個就是說因為等於中央地方還有這個朝野大家都認為這個\n\n23\n00:07:52,968 --> 00:08:16,419\n問題很嚴重需要去解決所以大家推婚姻宅當然數字上可能有點跟不上以台中為例你看台中真的我們台中六都是人口第二這個所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲還是30到34歲就是我們從20到39歲這個區間我們在全國的排名都是第二但在這一波的婚姻宅裡面我們的數字是零這個怎麼辦\n\n24\n00:08:20,643 --> 00:08:42,857\n報告委員我想不是這一波也就是說我們累計到今年年底今年年底不是明年年底是1022戶可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來可能包括台中在內不管是1000戶2600戶或者是1萬戶一定會有包括台中的部分我們希望能夠跟台中市政委一起來合作因為在這個今年新聞稿9月4號的時候你們說要這個未來三年要釋出1萬戶\n\n25\n00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:58,577\n這個一萬戶未來三年要釋出這是內政部的新聞稿那釋出這一萬戶裡面你們的分配比例是按照比例分還是按照現實狀況來分因為這一萬戶裡面有沒有台中還是說台中的看狀況報告委員要協調\n\n26\n00:08:59,798 --> 00:09:23,562\n要協調第一個就是大家都喜歡有這個新的社宅可以入住但是我認為說婚姻家庭裡面應該也不排除包租代管那包租代管的部分現在業者非常努力在衝刺現在包租代管業者的這個戶數已經跟我們現在到年底以前有12萬戶接近相當的數目字那包租代管業者的那個房子也是很新這是私人興建的部分\n\n27\n00:09:24,102 --> 00:09:47,145\n這就是回到這個住宅法第3條這個所謂獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分那我是說鼓勵啦因為現在真的我覺得光是靠政府蓋可能這個效率太差了我想過去的幾次質詢我也跟院長跟部長提到其實應該去落實住宅法第3條去獎勵民間興辦社宅不管用什麼方式包含講真的現在的漁務也很多或是正在這個\n\n28\n00:09:48,726 --> 00:10:15,029\n但就是市面上的房子也很多要怎麼樣去談條件或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子它既然賣不掉它是不是有機會提供到相關的這個機制裡面來講讓更多的年輕人他有機會入住新的房子而且是用社宅的比例跟他的租金來入住精華地段我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題可以解決不然等你蓋我講了就算一萬戶一萬戶也就是一萬個家庭那其實\n\n29\n00:10:15,709 --> 00:10:30,348\n我們一年如果就算現在出生率很低啦有些數據也是趕不上啦真的我願意跟你補充一下像你講的方向非常正確我們也是朝著這個方向來處理第一個空漁物的部分你不管是就環保的觀點或者空漁物要把它去化\n\n30\n00:10:30,808 --> 00:10:52,197\n其實是非常的重要所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者他們有經驗的可以跟我們跟私人的這個建商來協調那這個就有兩個政策一個是鼓勵然後另外一個有沒有可能在空無一物尤其是稅制方面的給他加強之後如果你沒有去化的話你應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的這個人群\n\n31\n00:10:52,697 --> 00:11:19,207\n那我也知道在台中市或幾個大都會空餘物的比例非常高其實全國空餘物的比例已經接近快90萬戶左右那這些如果可以馬上釋放出來的話一定要有個政策工具那這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法治上需要大院來支持的話也希望委員能夠多多支持會啦我們共同努力啦我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題要趕快把它解決掉所以才特別今天花了時間來跟兩位來討論這個問題好不好好那接下來要談詐騙我想這個\n\n32\n00:11:21,409 --> 00:11:37,607\n詐騙的問題當然所有委員都關心這件事情但最近比較新的狀況是怎麼樣就是他對抗詐騙結果他的新聞報出來反而被人家報復可能被轉了一些小錢然後被檢舉就說這個是屬於人頭戶然後就被凍結了被凍結之後當然影響到他的生活的必須\n\n33\n00:11:39,549 --> 00:12:06,397\n這個整個部分來講的話對民生對一般的民眾影響非常的大那在解除這警示流程裡面本期曾經有去所知那當然你們的說明是講說只要經調查屬實提出相關證明文件那就可以來解除那第一個到底什麼叫相關證明文件我就沒有騙人我就是被人家陷害的我要怎麼證明我沒有被我要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情光是提出證明文件就是個很辛苦的事情那另外本辦也特別\n\n34\n00:12:07,324 --> 00:12:26,256\n去電警察局,問說如果我今天有這個問題,我要怎麼去提出解封的事情流程?基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼,他沒有收到這個指令,他不知道什麼叫提供相關證明,他必須看到法院的判決,證明你沒問題了,他才可以去行為給銀行等等,才可以去做這件事情。\n\n35\n00:12:26,756 --> 00:12:47,051\n所以在這個部分實務上他沒有辦法面對啊就說今天雖然說你們內政部的高層或者是警察局的高層覺得說只要提供相關證明調查屬實不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做但實務上基層的不管是銀行也好員警也好他沒辦法面對這件事情他不敢做這件事情所以我想問一下院長或是部長這部分到底要怎麼解決\n\n36\n00:12:49,547 --> 00:13:06,377\n謝謝院長那個謝謝委員啊對於我們基層同仁啊非常的肯定但是為了跟委員報告有關於打炸的部分的牽涉到的部會非常的多您現在所說的解除這個市井的這個流程警示的流程的話牽涉到第一個檢調單位第二個呢是金管會那我們也都知道\n\n37\n00:13:07,998 --> 00:13:30,708\n當時要把它變成是個警示帳號的時候也是經過一定的程序所以我們的警員是按照程序來處理這第一個然後第二個呢我們也會認為說因為就是有這樣的警示的帳號所以現在我們在處理打炸的時候呢包括被詐騙的這個人數或者是被詐騙的財損其實有下降到百分之二十幾甚至百分之四十幾左右那所以這個呢一定會造成很多所謂的\n\n38\n00:13:31,528 --> 00:13:45,314\n疑似被詐騙的這個警示帳號呢有一些不方便的地方那怎麼樣縮短這個流程然後不要影響到法定的程序我想我們的打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位來協商看怎麼樣處理會比較好\n\n39\n00:13:46,732 --> 00:14:06,226\n好,院長部長,這個我提供一個參考,今年我想新加坡提出一個所謂的ProtectionfromScamsBill的一個打詐的方案,那當然它的整個立法流程非常的嚴格,但它裡面有一個精神是什麼,就是說所謂的警示帳戶被列為一個是可能被騙的帳戶,一種當然就是騙人的帳戶嘛,\n\n40\n00:14:07,014 --> 00:14:25,915\n他列為被騙的帳戶的部分他有一個做法是說我先凍結大部分的大筆交易但是你的日常所需民生所需還是可以正常運作比如說繳水電費比如說繳學費這種民生的必需品民生必需的這些消費他雖然被列為警示但是他在這種\n\n41\n00:14:26,856 --> 00:14:44,763\n他雖然發出限制力但他實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊那等到司法流程確定他有罪那當然就是把整個凍結嘛整個就有罪嘛那如果無罪就恢復正常但在日常的運作他不會受到影響我不知道未來我在修法上有沒有可能往這個方向來走\n\n42\n00:14:45,183 --> 00:15:11,333\n我會把委員的這樣建議然後轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解因為大家都知道有警示賬戶的話其實保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾那這兩者之間的權衡可能還是要按照我們法律上面的見解來做處理那但是委員的對選民的關心我們會把這個部分請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理\n\n43\n00:15:11,513 --> 00:15:19,923\n是委員在打仗的這個方向我想過跟不及都容易引起人民的反感但這個時候我認為要稍微過一點都沒問題\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n598\t4496\t好 謝謝主席 主席我們一樣請行政院的卓院長請卓院長備詢\n16332\t40389\t黃維豪院長好 院長我想今天台股已經到兩萬八了台積電一千五看起來經濟榮景一片大好但是實際上什麼狀況實際上當然就是說我國的平均薪資薪資中位數大約在三萬八左右換句話說國人壽星階級有大概半數以下的民眾他的薪水不到三萬八所以中位數是這個概念\n41129\t65168\t那這樣子的族群不只是旺股興碳三萬八大概不時不刻存三年才可以買台積電一張股票那更不用講買房子的問題所以我想今天主要的內政質詢我要跟院長跟部長來討論我們的住房政策我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策那本席在去年三月的時候府上任是初畢竟我是這個\n67190\t86625\t年輕人 算年輕人 買房子也非常辛苦所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策去年3月我一就任立法委就提出相關的修法那跟院長也跟部長來分享我想在提案說明 提案做很多次我們提案的這個內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外在育有未成年子女的家庭部分應該讓他額外獨立出來\n89727\t99013\t用其他的方式來計算來保障或是鼓勵願意生小孩或是有生小孩的家庭他能夠入住社宅嗎因為現在有一種坊間一種說法\n99906\t127414\t我買得起房子我就養不了孩子那我養得起孩子的時候我可能就買不起房子所以在雙子之間大家變成是兩難啊我到底要買房子好呢還是養孩子那如果小孩不小心懷孕了那生小孩之後我可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要為什麼我去年提出來那次現在也提出來表示說這一定是大家看到的相關的問題嘛那本席要講的是說今天\n128527\t156815\t我們提的修正草案裡面我們希望的是說因為在原有的法規裡面在現有的法規裡面育有未成年子女兩人以上他本來是屬於弱勢的定義他定義裡面屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面但是我們認為說生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤生小孩這件事情就算你不是弱勢你也會生小孩我們都鼓勵全方位全社會大家都要鼓勵大家多生小孩所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來我們談到說這個權益的部分\n158936\t176703\t我們看到內政部提的婚姻戶的社宅的身分別的戶數的配比把它分成優先戶跟一般戶優先戶裡面的20%要保留婚姻戶的保障一般戶裡面也是20%的保障我要跟院長跟部長討論說這個事情沒有對錯這是立場的問題就是說\n180270\t200491\t我的邏輯,我提案的時候,我希望的是說,所謂婚育宅,應該不要排擠到本來的所謂優先戶,本來的弱勢戶,而是另外在本來的所謂一般戶裡面,提供一定比例的保障,讓生小孩,育有子女的家庭,能夠入住社會住宅。\n201232\t212302\t但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面個別保障20%的就會預載我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是要推下去嗎還是有機會來修來調整\n215891\t232050\t謝謝委員對社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定首先跟委員報告一下有跟住宅法把50%修為是弱勢其實我們在內政委會有討論過目前大概不會朝這個方向因為我們不認為現在的婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢\n232931\t247117\t他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持那再來就是生多周少的問題現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外我們推出了叫多元興建的方式也就是說我們現在在包住代管\n247737\t266570\t或者是其他如果有私人的企業願意協助我們來蓋這個社會住宅或是提供社會住宅的話那我們未來在婚姻家庭裡面這些的人就會增加那目前我們到年底之前推出1022戶大概分布在五都那因為台中比較沒有所以就沒有算進去待會我會給你討論到\n267671\t296273\t那所以很希望說台中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央地方多跟中央政府來一起來協助那再來就是剛剛所說的就是你所謂的婚育宅裡面的這個小孩子或者是說即將要步入這個結婚的這個年輕人來講的話我們會跟衛福部來合作也就是說他如果領有這個媽媽手冊的結婚的家庭的話他在這個抽籤的比例上面會再給他多比較多的支持\n296733\t315606\t所以就是總會員來講說大家對於婚姻宅都是樂觀其成但是因為婚姻宅的數目就是沒有那麼多所以還是要有抽籤為原則可是婚姻宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有譬如說結婚的補助或是生活津貼這方面的部分我們會再繼續加強當中那因為即將要開辦\n316627\t330075\t我們認為開辦如果有這個方向的是很多人有需求的話會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面或者是我們財政部國土署財政部國產署所推的這個國產土地裡面再把它加重比例\n330916\t359495\t部長那個一開始我想定義問題我沒有 我剛剛也強調了婚育的部分我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面我也沒有修法把弱勢度提高這版本不是我的因為內政委會已經沒有對 所以我沒有要這個東西我也沒有提這個案子我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障沒問題但是講的說我們為了鼓勵生育為了搶救我國的少子化我們希望的是說把所謂婚育的部分另外再鼓勵出來其他條件做這件事情我們現在正朝著這個方向這也是院長\n359795\t380229\t部長跟你說明看數據就好婚姻戶有8%來自弱勢戶40%裡面有20%來自弱勢戶我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶我提供一個數據有台中的數據參考台中現階段婚姻戶裡面婚姻戶的資格佔弱勢戶的比例本來就已經高達20%\n381946\t395982\t就換句話說本來所謂的優先戶或弱勢戶裡面他本來有生養子女的家庭就佔了20%所以你如果在另外再去加一個條件說在弱勢戶裡面要去放入所謂婚育的條件\n397103\t423926\t反而我覺得這個比例來講幫助不大啦坦白講是幫助不大因為他本來就有20%我們不會朝著我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障所以剛剛除了直接這個社會住宅的進駐以外那還有包括像包租代管另外可能黃委員非常清楚就是租金補貼租金補貼在六都裡面台中市是算最高每一年大概高達五六十億以上\n424766\t440871\t就是要準備回應我下一題做事務有很多的幫忙部長你看下一個就是我們看到中央很認真蓋了就是所謂社宅7個案場然後這個揮霧合計今年年底會有761這個你剛剛說1000多啦但總共不管我們可能數字有落差但不管760還是你講1000出頭\n444228\t471727\t在新北 高雄 台北都有很遺憾的台中真的是掛零這個部分是要用什麼東西來補因為我想台中那過去幾年台中地方設宅的這個興建的比例興建設宅然後優先提供給婚姻的部分目前來講台中整體的這個育有未滿六歲子女入住的比例是14.7提供很多租金補貼等等的這個是等於換句話說我要提這個就是說因為等於中央地方還有這個朝野大家都認為這個\n472968\t496419\t問題很嚴重 需要去解決所以大家推婚姻宅當然數字上可能有點跟不上以台中為例 你看台中真的我們台中六都是人口第二這個所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲 還是30到34歲就是我們從20到39歲這個區間我們在全國的排名都是第二但在這一波的婚姻宅裡面我們的數字是零 這個怎麼辦\n500643\t522857\t報告委員我想不是這一波也就是說我們累計到今年年底今年年底不是明年年底是1022戶可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來可能包括台中在內不管是1000戶 2600戶或者是1萬戶一定會有包括台中的部分我們希望能夠跟台中市政委一起來合作因為在這個今年新聞稿9月4號的時候你們說要這個未來三年要釋出1萬戶\n524850\t538577\t這個一萬戶未來三年要釋出這是內政部的新聞稿那釋出這一萬戶裡面你們的分配比例是按照比例分還是按照現實狀況來分因為這一萬戶裡面有沒有台中還是說台中的看狀況報告委員要協調\n539798\t563562\t要協調第一個就是大家都喜歡有這個新的社宅可以入住但是我認為說婚姻家庭裡面應該也不排除包租代管那包租代管的部分現在業者非常努力在衝刺現在包租代管業者的這個戶數已經跟我們現在到年底以前有12萬戶接近相當的數目字那包租代管業者的那個房子也是很新這是私人興建的部分\n564102\t587145\t這就是回到這個住宅法第3條這個所謂獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分那我是說鼓勵啦因為現在真的我覺得光是靠政府蓋可能這個效率太差了我想過去的幾次質詢我也跟院長跟部長提到其實應該去落實住宅法第3條去獎勵民間興辦社宅不管用什麼方式包含講真的現在的漁務也很多或是正在這個\n588726\t615029\t但就是市面上的房子也很多要怎麼樣去談條件或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子它既然賣不掉它是不是有機會提供到相關的這個機制裡面來講讓更多的年輕人他有機會入住新的房子而且是用社宅的比例跟他的租金來入住精華地段我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題可以解決不然等你蓋我講了就算一萬戶一萬戶也就是一萬個家庭那其實\n615709\t630348\t我們一年如果就算現在出生率很低啦有些數據也是趕不上啦真的我願意跟你補充一下像你講的方向非常正確我們也是朝著這個方向來處理第一個空漁物的部分你不管是就環保的觀點或者空漁物要把它去化\n630808\t652197\t其實是非常的重要所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者他們有經驗的可以跟我們跟私人的這個建商來協調那這個就有兩個政策一個是鼓勵然後另外一個有沒有可能在空無一物尤其是稅制方面的給他加強之後如果你沒有去化的話你應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的這個人群\n652697\t679207\t那我也知道在台中市或幾個大都會空餘物的比例非常高其實全國空餘物的比例已經接近快90萬戶左右那這些如果可以馬上釋放出來的話一定要有個政策工具那這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法治上需要大院來支持的話也希望委員能夠多多支持會啦 我們共同努力啦我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題要趕快把它解決掉所以才特別今天花了時間來跟兩位來討論這個問題好不好好 那接下來要談詐騙我想這個\n681409\t697607\t詐騙的問題當然所有委員都關心這件事情但最近比較新的狀況是怎麼樣就是他對抗詐騙結果他的新聞報出來反而被人家報復可能被轉了一些小錢然後被檢舉就說這個是屬於人頭戶然後就被凍結了被凍結之後當然影響到他的生活的必須\n699549\t726397\t這個整個部分來講的話對民生對一般的民眾影響非常的大那在解除這警示流程裡面本期曾經有去所知那當然你們的說明是講說只要經調查屬實提出相關證明文件那就可以來解除那第一個到底什麼叫相關證明文件我就沒有騙人我就是被人家陷害的我要怎麼證明我沒有被我要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情光是提出證明文件就是個很辛苦的事情那另外本辦也特別\n727324\t746256\t去電警察局,問說如果我今天有這個問題,我要怎麼去提出解封的事情流程?基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼,他沒有收到這個指令,他不知道什麼叫提供相關證明,他必須看到法院的判決,證明你沒問題了,他才可以去行為給銀行等等,才可以去做這件事情。\n746756\t767051\t所以在這個部分實務上他沒有辦法面對啊就說今天雖然說你們內政部的高層或者是警察局的高層覺得說只要提供相關證明調查屬實不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做但實務上基層的不管是銀行也好員警也好他沒辦法面對這件事情他不敢做這件事情所以我想問一下院長或是部長這部分到底要怎麼解決\n769547\t786377\t謝謝院長那個謝謝委員啊對於我們基層同仁啊非常的肯定但是為了跟委員報告有關於打炸的部分的牽涉到的部會非常的多您現在所說的解除這個市井的這個流程警示的流程的話牽涉到第一個檢調單位第二個呢是金管會那我們也都知道\n787998\t810708\t當時要把它變成是個警示帳號的時候也是經過一定的程序所以我們的警員是按照程序來處理這第一個然後第二個呢我們也會認為說因為就是有這樣的警示的帳號所以現在我們在處理打炸的時候呢包括被詐騙的這個人數或者是被詐騙的財損其實有下降到百分之二十幾甚至百分之四十幾左右那所以這個呢一定會造成很多所謂的\n811528\t825314\t疑似被詐騙的這個警示帳號呢有一些不方便的地方那怎麼樣縮短這個流程然後不要影響到法定的程序我想我們的打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位來協商看怎麼樣處理會比較好\n826732\t846226\t好,院長部長,這個我提供一個參考,今年我想新加坡提出一個所謂的Protection from Scams Bill的一個打詐的方案,那當然它的整個立法流程非常的嚴格,但它裡面有一個精神是什麼,就是說所謂的警示帳戶被列為一個是可能被騙的帳戶,一種當然就是騙人的帳戶嘛,\n847014\t865915\t他列為被騙的帳戶的部分他有一個做法是說我先凍結大部分的大筆交易但是你的日常所需民生所需還是可以正常運作比如說繳水電費比如說繳學費這種民生的必需品民生必需的這些消費他雖然被列為警示但是他在這種\n866856\t884763\t他雖然發出限制力但他實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊那等到司法流程確定他有罪那當然就是把整個凍結嘛整個就有罪嘛那如果無罪就恢復正常但在日常的運作他不會受到影響我不知道未來我在修法上有沒有可能往這個方向來走\n885183\t911333\t我會把委員的這樣建議然後轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解因為大家都知道有警示賬戶的話其實保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾那這兩者之間的權衡可能還是要按照我們法律上面的見解來做處理那但是委員的對選民的關心我們會把這個部分請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理\n911513\t919923\t是委員在打仗的這個方向我想過跟不及都容易引起人民的反感但這個時候我認為要稍微過一點都沒問題\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 主席我們一樣請行政院的卓院長請卓院長備詢\n黃維豪院長好 院長我想今天台股已經到兩萬八了台積電一千五看起來經濟榮景一片大好但是實際上什麼狀況實際上當然就是說我國的平均薪資薪資中位數大約在三萬八左右換句話說國人壽星階級有大概半數以下的民眾他的薪水不到三萬八所以中位數是這個概念\n那這樣子的族群不只是旺股興碳三萬八大概不時不刻存三年才可以買台積電一張股票那更不用講買房子的問題所以我想今天主要的內政質詢我要跟院長跟部長來討論我們的住房政策我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策那本席在去年三月的時候府上任是初畢竟我是這個\n年輕人 算年輕人 買房子也非常辛苦所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策去年3月我一就任立法委就提出相關的修法那跟院長也跟部長來分享我想在提案說明 提案做很多次我們提案的這個內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外在育有未成年子女的家庭部分應該讓他額外獨立出來\n用其他的方式來計算來保障或是鼓勵願意生小孩或是有生小孩的家庭他能夠入住社宅嗎因為現在有一種坊間一種說法\n我買得起房子我就養不了孩子那我養得起孩子的時候我可能就買不起房子所以在雙子之間大家變成是兩難啊我到底要買房子好呢還是養孩子那如果小孩不小心懷孕了那生小孩之後我可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要為什麼我去年提出來那次現在也提出來表示說這一定是大家看到的相關的問題嘛那本席要講的是說今天\n我們提的修正草案裡面我們希望的是說因為在原有的法規裡面在現有的法規裡面育有未成年子女兩人以上他本來是屬於弱勢的定義他定義裡面屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面但是我們認為說生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤生小孩這件事情就算你不是弱勢你也會生小孩我們都鼓勵全方位全社會大家都要鼓勵大家多生小孩所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來我們談到說這個權益的部分\n我們看到內政部提的婚姻戶的社宅的身分別的戶數的配比把它分成優先戶跟一般戶優先戶裡面的20%要保留婚姻戶的保障一般戶裡面也是20%的保障我要跟院長跟部長討論說這個事情沒有對錯這是立場的問題就是說\n我的邏輯,我提案的時候,我希望的是說,所謂婚育宅,應該不要排擠到本來的所謂優先戶,本來的弱勢戶,而是另外在本來的所謂一般戶裡面,提供一定比例的保障,讓生小孩,育有子女的家庭,能夠入住社會住宅。\n但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面個別保障20%的就會預載我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是要推下去嗎還是有機會來修來調整\n謝謝委員對社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定首先跟委員報告一下有跟住宅法把50%修為是弱勢其實我們在內政委會有討論過目前大概不會朝這個方向因為我們不認為現在的婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢\n他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持那再來就是生多周少的問題現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外我們推出了叫多元興建的方式也就是說我們現在在包住代管\n或者是其他如果有私人的企業願意協助我們來蓋這個社會住宅或是提供社會住宅的話那我們未來在婚姻家庭裡面這些的人就會增加那目前我們到年底之前推出1022戶大概分布在五都那因為台中比較沒有所以就沒有算進去待會我會給你討論到\n那所以很希望說台中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央地方多跟中央政府來一起來協助那再來就是剛剛所說的就是你所謂的婚育宅裡面的這個小孩子或者是說即將要步入這個結婚的這個年輕人來講的話我們會跟衛福部來合作也就是說他如果領有這個媽媽手冊的結婚的家庭的話他在這個抽籤的比例上面會再給他多比較多的支持\n所以就是總會員來講說大家對於婚姻宅都是樂觀其成但是因為婚姻宅的數目就是沒有那麼多所以還是要有抽籤為原則可是婚姻宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有譬如說結婚的補助或是生活津貼這方面的部分我們會再繼續加強當中那因為即將要開辦\n我們認為開辦如果有這個方向的是很多人有需求的話會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面或者是我們財政部國土署財政部國產署所推的這個國產土地裡面再把它加重比例\n部長那個一開始我想定義問題我沒有 我剛剛也強調了婚育的部分我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面我也沒有修法把弱勢度提高這版本不是我的因為內政委會已經沒有對 所以我沒有要這個東西我也沒有提這個案子我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障沒問題但是講的說我們為了鼓勵生育為了搶救我國的少子化我們希望的是說把所謂婚育的部分另外再鼓勵出來其他條件做這件事情我們現在正朝著這個方向這也是院長\n部長跟你說明看數據就好婚姻戶有8%來自弱勢戶40%裡面有20%來自弱勢戶我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶我提供一個數據有台中的數據參考台中現階段婚姻戶裡面婚姻戶的資格佔弱勢戶的比例本來就已經高達20%\n就換句話說本來所謂的優先戶或弱勢戶裡面他本來有生養子女的家庭就佔了20%所以你如果在另外再去加一個條件說在弱勢戶裡面要去放入所謂婚育的條件\n反而我覺得這個比例來講幫助不大啦坦白講是幫助不大因為他本來就有20%我們不會朝著我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障所以剛剛除了直接這個社會住宅的進駐以外那還有包括像包租代管另外可能黃委員非常清楚就是租金補貼租金補貼在六都裡面台中市是算最高每一年大概高達五六十億以上\n就是要準備回應我下一題做事務有很多的幫忙部長你看下一個就是我們看到中央很認真蓋了就是所謂社宅7個案場然後這個揮霧合計今年年底會有761這個你剛剛說1000多啦但總共不管我們可能數字有落差但不管760還是你講1000出頭\n在新北 高雄 台北都有很遺憾的台中真的是掛零這個部分是要用什麼東西來補因為我想台中那過去幾年台中地方設宅的這個興建的比例興建設宅然後優先提供給婚姻的部分目前來講台中整體的這個育有未滿六歲子女入住的比例是14.7提供很多租金補貼等等的這個是等於換句話說我要提這個就是說因為等於中央地方還有這個朝野大家都認為這個\n問題很嚴重 需要去解決所以大家推婚姻宅當然數字上可能有點跟不上以台中為例 你看台中真的我們台中六都是人口第二這個所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲 還是30到34歲就是我們從20到39歲這個區間我們在全國的排名都是第二但在這一波的婚姻宅裡面我們的數字是零 這個怎麼辦\n報告委員我想不是這一波也就是說我們累計到今年年底今年年底不是明年年底是1022戶可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來可能包括台中在內不管是1000戶 2600戶或者是1萬戶一定會有包括台中的部分我們希望能夠跟台中市政委一起來合作因為在這個今年新聞稿9月4號的時候你們說要這個未來三年要釋出1萬戶\n這個一萬戶未來三年要釋出這是內政部的新聞稿那釋出這一萬戶裡面你們的分配比例是按照比例分還是按照現實狀況來分因為這一萬戶裡面有沒有台中還是說台中的看狀況報告委員要協調\n要協調第一個就是大家都喜歡有這個新的社宅可以入住但是我認為說婚姻家庭裡面應該也不排除包租代管那包租代管的部分現在業者非常努力在衝刺現在包租代管業者的這個戶數已經跟我們現在到年底以前有12萬戶接近相當的數目字那包租代管業者的那個房子也是很新這是私人興建的部分\n這就是回到這個住宅法第3條這個所謂獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分那我是說鼓勵啦因為現在真的我覺得光是靠政府蓋可能這個效率太差了我想過去的幾次質詢我也跟院長跟部長提到其實應該去落實住宅法第3條去獎勵民間興辦社宅不管用什麼方式包含講真的現在的漁務也很多或是正在這個\n但就是市面上的房子也很多要怎麼樣去談條件或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子它既然賣不掉它是不是有機會提供到相關的這個機制裡面來講讓更多的年輕人他有機會入住新的房子而且是用社宅的比例跟他的租金來入住精華地段我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題可以解決不然等你蓋我講了就算一萬戶一萬戶也就是一萬個家庭那其實\n我們一年如果就算現在出生率很低啦有些數據也是趕不上啦真的我願意跟你補充一下像你講的方向非常正確我們也是朝著這個方向來處理第一個空漁物的部分你不管是就環保的觀點或者空漁物要把它去化\n其實是非常的重要所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者他們有經驗的可以跟我們跟私人的這個建商來協調那這個就有兩個政策一個是鼓勵然後另外一個有沒有可能在空無一物尤其是稅制方面的給他加強之後如果你沒有去化的話你應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的這個人群\n那我也知道在台中市或幾個大都會空餘物的比例非常高其實全國空餘物的比例已經接近快90萬戶左右那這些如果可以馬上釋放出來的話一定要有個政策工具那這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法治上需要大院來支持的話也希望委員能夠多多支持會啦 我們共同努力啦我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題要趕快把它解決掉所以才特別今天花了時間來跟兩位來討論這個問題好不好好 那接下來要談詐騙我想這個\n詐騙的問題當然所有委員都關心這件事情但最近比較新的狀況是怎麼樣就是他對抗詐騙結果他的新聞報出來反而被人家報復可能被轉了一些小錢然後被檢舉就說這個是屬於人頭戶然後就被凍結了被凍結之後當然影響到他的生活的必須\n這個整個部分來講的話對民生對一般的民眾影響非常的大那在解除這警示流程裡面本期曾經有去所知那當然你們的說明是講說只要經調查屬實提出相關證明文件那就可以來解除那第一個到底什麼叫相關證明文件我就沒有騙人我就是被人家陷害的我要怎麼證明我沒有被我要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情光是提出證明文件就是個很辛苦的事情那另外本辦也特別\n去電警察局,問說如果我今天有這個問題,我要怎麼去提出解封的事情流程?基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼,他沒有收到這個指令,他不知道什麼叫提供相關證明,他必須看到法院的判決,證明你沒問題了,他才可以去行為給銀行等等,才可以去做這件事情。\n所以在這個部分實務上他沒有辦法面對啊就說今天雖然說你們內政部的高層或者是警察局的高層覺得說只要提供相關證明調查屬實不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做但實務上基層的不管是銀行也好員警也好他沒辦法面對這件事情他不敢做這件事情所以我想問一下院長或是部長這部分到底要怎麼解決\n謝謝院長那個謝謝委員啊對於我們基層同仁啊非常的肯定但是為了跟委員報告有關於打炸的部分的牽涉到的部會非常的多您現在所說的解除這個市井的這個流程警示的流程的話牽涉到第一個檢調單位第二個呢是金管會那我們也都知道\n當時要把它變成是個警示帳號的時候也是經過一定的程序所以我們的警員是按照程序來處理這第一個然後第二個呢我們也會認為說因為就是有這樣的警示的帳號所以現在我們在處理打炸的時候呢包括被詐騙的這個人數或者是被詐騙的財損其實有下降到百分之二十幾甚至百分之四十幾左右那所以這個呢一定會造成很多所謂的\n疑似被詐騙的這個警示帳號呢有一些不方便的地方那怎麼樣縮短這個流程然後不要影響到法定的程序我想我們的打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位來協商看怎麼樣處理會比較好\n好,院長部長,這個我提供一個參考,今年我想新加坡提出一個所謂的Protection from Scams Bill的一個打詐的方案,那當然它的整個立法流程非常的嚴格,但它裡面有一個精神是什麼,就是說所謂的警示帳戶被列為一個是可能被騙的帳戶,一種當然就是騙人的帳戶嘛,\n他列為被騙的帳戶的部分他有一個做法是說我先凍結大部分的大筆交易但是你的日常所需民生所需還是可以正常運作比如說繳水電費比如說繳學費這種民生的必需品民生必需的這些消費他雖然被列為警示但是他在這種\n他雖然發出限制力但他實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊那等到司法流程確定他有罪那當然就是把整個凍結嘛整個就有罪嘛那如果無罪就恢復正常但在日常的運作他不會受到影響我不知道未來我在修法上有沒有可能往這個方向來走\n我會把委員的這樣建議然後轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解因為大家都知道有警示賬戶的話其實保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾那這兩者之間的權衡可能還是要按照我們法律上面的見解來做處理那但是委員的對選民的關心我們會把這個部分請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理\n是委員在打仗的這個方向我想過跟不及都容易引起人民的反感但這個時候我認為要稍微過一點都沒問題\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.598 --> 00:04.496\n好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請行政院的卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n00:16.332 --> 00:40.389\n黃維豪院長好院長我想今天台股已經到兩萬八了台積電一千五看起來經濟榮景一片大好但是實際上什麼狀況實際上當然就是說我國的平均薪資薪資中位數大約在三萬八左右換句話說國人壽星階級有大概半數以下的民眾他的薪水不到三萬八所以中位數是這個概念\n\n00:41.129 --> 01:05.168\n那這樣子的族群不只是旺股興碳三萬八大概不時不刻存三年才可以買台積電一張股票那更不用講買房子的問題所以我想今天主要的內政質詢我要跟院長跟部長來討論我們的住房政策我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策那本席在去年三月的時候府上任是初畢竟我是這個\n\n01:07.190 --> 01:26.625\n年輕人算年輕人買房子也非常辛苦所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策去年3月我一就任立法委就提出相關的修法那跟院長也跟部長來分享我想在提案說明提案做很多次我們提案的這個內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外在育有未成年子女的家庭部分應該讓他額外獨立出來\n\n01:29.727 --> 01:39.013\n用其他的方式來計算來保障或是鼓勵願意生小孩或是有生小孩的家庭他能夠入住社宅嗎因為現在有一種坊間一種說法\n\n01:39.906 --> 02:07.414\n我買得起房子我就養不了孩子那我養得起孩子的時候我可能就買不起房子所以在雙子之間大家變成是兩難啊我到底要買房子好呢還是養孩子那如果小孩不小心懷孕了那生小孩之後我可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要為什麼我去年提出來那次現在也提出來表示說這一定是大家看到的相關的問題嘛那本席要講的是說今天\n\n02:08.527 --> 02:36.815\n我們提的修正草案裡面我們希望的是說因為在原有的法規裡面在現有的法規裡面育有未成年子女兩人以上他本來是屬於弱勢的定義他定義裡面屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面但是我們認為說生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤生小孩這件事情就算你不是弱勢你也會生小孩我們都鼓勵全方位全社會大家都要鼓勵大家多生小孩所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來我們談到說這個權益的部分\n\n02:38.936 --> 02:56.703\n我們看到內政部提的婚姻戶的社宅的身分別的戶數的配比把它分成優先戶跟一般戶優先戶裡面的20%要保留婚姻戶的保障一般戶裡面也是20%的保障我要跟院長跟部長討論說這個事情沒有對錯這是立場的問題就是說\n\n03:00.270 --> 03:20.491\n我的邏輯,我提案的時候,我希望的是說,所謂婚育宅,應該不要排擠到本來的所謂優先戶,本來的弱勢戶,而是另外在本來的所謂一般戶裡面,提供一定比例的保障,讓生小孩,育有子女的家庭,能夠入住社會住宅。\n\n03:21.232 --> 03:32.302\n但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面個別保障20%的就會預載我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是要推下去嗎還是有機會來修來調整\n\n03:35.891 --> 03:52.050\n謝謝委員對社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定首先跟委員報告一下有跟住宅法把50%修為是弱勢其實我們在內政委會有討論過目前大概不會朝這個方向因為我們不認為現在的婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢\n\n03:52.931 --> 04:07.117\n他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持那再來就是生多周少的問題現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外我們推出了叫多元興建的方式也就是說我們現在在包住代管\n\n04:07.737 --> 04:26.570\n或者是其他如果有私人的企業願意協助我們來蓋這個社會住宅或是提供社會住宅的話那我們未來在婚姻家庭裡面這些的人就會增加那目前我們到年底之前推出1022戶大概分布在五都那因為台中比較沒有所以就沒有算進去待會我會給你討論到\n\n04:27.671 --> 04:56.273\n那所以很希望說台中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央地方多跟中央政府來一起來協助那再來就是剛剛所說的就是你所謂的婚育宅裡面的這個小孩子或者是說即將要步入這個結婚的這個年輕人來講的話我們會跟衛福部來合作也就是說他如果領有這個媽媽手冊的結婚的家庭的話他在這個抽籤的比例上面會再給他多比較多的支持\n\n04:56.733 --> 05:15.606\n所以就是總會員來講說大家對於婚姻宅都是樂觀其成但是因為婚姻宅的數目就是沒有那麼多所以還是要有抽籤為原則可是婚姻宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有譬如說結婚的補助或是生活津貼這方面的部分我們會再繼續加強當中那因為即將要開辦\n\n05:16.627 --> 05:30.075\n我們認為開辦如果有這個方向的是很多人有需求的話會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面或者是我們財政部國土署財政部國產署所推的這個國產土地裡面再把它加重比例\n\n05:30.916 --> 05:59.495\n部長那個一開始我想定義問題我沒有我剛剛也強調了婚育的部分我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面我也沒有修法把弱勢度提高這版本不是我的因為內政委會已經沒有對所以我沒有要這個東西我也沒有提這個案子我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障沒問題但是講的說我們為了鼓勵生育為了搶救我國的少子化我們希望的是說把所謂婚育的部分另外再鼓勵出來其他條件做這件事情我們現在正朝著這個方向這也是院長\n\n05:59.795 --> 06:20.229\n部長跟你說明看數據就好婚姻戶有8%來自弱勢戶40%裡面有20%來自弱勢戶我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶我提供一個數據有台中的數據參考台中現階段婚姻戶裡面婚姻戶的資格佔弱勢戶的比例本來就已經高達20%\n\n06:21.946 --> 06:35.982\n就換句話說本來所謂的優先戶或弱勢戶裡面他本來有生養子女的家庭就佔了20%所以你如果在另外再去加一個條件說在弱勢戶裡面要去放入所謂婚育的條件\n\n06:37.103 --> 07:03.926\n反而我覺得這個比例來講幫助不大啦坦白講是幫助不大因為他本來就有20%我們不會朝著我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障所以剛剛除了直接這個社會住宅的進駐以外那還有包括像包租代管另外可能黃委員非常清楚就是租金補貼租金補貼在六都裡面台中市是算最高每一年大概高達五六十億以上\n\n07:04.766 --> 07:20.871\n就是要準備回應我下一題做事務有很多的幫忙部長你看下一個就是我們看到中央很認真蓋了就是所謂社宅7個案場然後這個揮霧合計今年年底會有761這個你剛剛說1000多啦但總共不管我們可能數字有落差但不管760還是你講1000出頭\n\n07:24.228 --> 07:51.727\n在新北高雄台北都有很遺憾的台中真的是掛零這個部分是要用什麼東西來補因為我想台中那過去幾年台中地方設宅的這個興建的比例興建設宅然後優先提供給婚姻的部分目前來講台中整體的這個育有未滿六歲子女入住的比例是14.7提供很多租金補貼等等的這個是等於換句話說我要提這個就是說因為等於中央地方還有這個朝野大家都認為這個\n\n07:52.968 --> 08:16.419\n問題很嚴重需要去解決所以大家推婚姻宅當然數字上可能有點跟不上以台中為例你看台中真的我們台中六都是人口第二這個所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲還是30到34歲就是我們從20到39歲這個區間我們在全國的排名都是第二但在這一波的婚姻宅裡面我們的數字是零這個怎麼辦\n\n08:20.643 --> 08:42.857\n報告委員我想不是這一波也就是說我們累計到今年年底今年年底不是明年年底是1022戶可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來可能包括台中在內不管是1000戶2600戶或者是1萬戶一定會有包括台中的部分我們希望能夠跟台中市政委一起來合作因為在這個今年新聞稿9月4號的時候你們說要這個未來三年要釋出1萬戶\n\n08:44.850 --> 08:58.577\n這個一萬戶未來三年要釋出這是內政部的新聞稿那釋出這一萬戶裡面你們的分配比例是按照比例分還是按照現實狀況來分因為這一萬戶裡面有沒有台中還是說台中的看狀況報告委員要協調\n\n08:59.798 --> 09:23.562\n要協調第一個就是大家都喜歡有這個新的社宅可以入住但是我認為說婚姻家庭裡面應該也不排除包租代管那包租代管的部分現在業者非常努力在衝刺現在包租代管業者的這個戶數已經跟我們現在到年底以前有12萬戶接近相當的數目字那包租代管業者的那個房子也是很新這是私人興建的部分\n\n09:24.102 --> 09:47.145\n這就是回到這個住宅法第3條這個所謂獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分那我是說鼓勵啦因為現在真的我覺得光是靠政府蓋可能這個效率太差了我想過去的幾次質詢我也跟院長跟部長提到其實應該去落實住宅法第3條去獎勵民間興辦社宅不管用什麼方式包含講真的現在的漁務也很多或是正在這個\n\n09:48.726 --> 10:15.029\n但就是市面上的房子也很多要怎麼樣去談條件或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子它既然賣不掉它是不是有機會提供到相關的這個機制裡面來講讓更多的年輕人他有機會入住新的房子而且是用社宅的比例跟他的租金來入住精華地段我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題可以解決不然等你蓋我講了就算一萬戶一萬戶也就是一萬個家庭那其實\n\n10:15.709 --> 10:30.348\n我們一年如果就算現在出生率很低啦有些數據也是趕不上啦真的我願意跟你補充一下像你講的方向非常正確我們也是朝著這個方向來處理第一個空漁物的部分你不管是就環保的觀點或者空漁物要把它去化\n\n10:30.808 --> 10:52.197\n其實是非常的重要所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者他們有經驗的可以跟我們跟私人的這個建商來協調那這個就有兩個政策一個是鼓勵然後另外一個有沒有可能在空無一物尤其是稅制方面的給他加強之後如果你沒有去化的話你應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的這個人群\n\n10:52.697 --> 11:19.207\n那我也知道在台中市或幾個大都會空餘物的比例非常高其實全國空餘物的比例已經接近快90萬戶左右那這些如果可以馬上釋放出來的話一定要有個政策工具那這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法治上需要大院來支持的話也希望委員能夠多多支持會啦我們共同努力啦我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題要趕快把它解決掉所以才特別今天花了時間來跟兩位來討論這個問題好不好好那接下來要談詐騙我想這個\n\n11:21.409 --> 11:37.607\n詐騙的問題當然所有委員都關心這件事情但最近比較新的狀況是怎麼樣就是他對抗詐騙結果他的新聞報出來反而被人家報復可能被轉了一些小錢然後被檢舉就說這個是屬於人頭戶然後就被凍結了被凍結之後當然影響到他的生活的必須\n\n11:39.549 --> 12:06.397\n這個整個部分來講的話對民生對一般的民眾影響非常的大那在解除這警示流程裡面本期曾經有去所知那當然你們的說明是講說只要經調查屬實提出相關證明文件那就可以來解除那第一個到底什麼叫相關證明文件我就沒有騙人我就是被人家陷害的我要怎麼證明我沒有被我要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情光是提出證明文件就是個很辛苦的事情那另外本辦也特別\n\n12:07.324 --> 12:26.256\n去電警察局,問說如果我今天有這個問題,我要怎麼去提出解封的事情流程?基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼,他沒有收到這個指令,他不知道什麼叫提供相關證明,他必須看到法院的判決,證明你沒問題了,他才可以去行為給銀行等等,才可以去做這件事情。\n\n12:26.756 --> 12:47.051\n所以在這個部分實務上他沒有辦法面對啊就說今天雖然說你們內政部的高層或者是警察局的高層覺得說只要提供相關證明調查屬實不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做但實務上基層的不管是銀行也好員警也好他沒辦法面對這件事情他不敢做這件事情所以我想問一下院長或是部長這部分到底要怎麼解決\n\n12:49.547 --> 13:06.377\n謝謝院長那個謝謝委員啊對於我們基層同仁啊非常的肯定但是為了跟委員報告有關於打炸的部分的牽涉到的部會非常的多您現在所說的解除這個市井的這個流程警示的流程的話牽涉到第一個檢調單位第二個呢是金管會那我們也都知道\n\n13:07.998 --> 13:30.708\n當時要把它變成是個警示帳號的時候也是經過一定的程序所以我們的警員是按照程序來處理這第一個然後第二個呢我們也會認為說因為就是有這樣的警示的帳號所以現在我們在處理打炸的時候呢包括被詐騙的這個人數或者是被詐騙的財損其實有下降到百分之二十幾甚至百分之四十幾左右那所以這個呢一定會造成很多所謂的\n\n13:31.528 --> 13:45.314\n疑似被詐騙的這個警示帳號呢有一些不方便的地方那怎麼樣縮短這個流程然後不要影響到法定的程序我想我們的打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位來協商看怎麼樣處理會比較好\n\n13:46.732 --> 14:06.226\n好,院長部長,這個我提供一個參考,今年我想新加坡提出一個所謂的ProtectionfromScamsBill的一個打詐的方案,那當然它的整個立法流程非常的嚴格,但它裡面有一個精神是什麼,就是說所謂的警示帳戶被列為一個是可能被騙的帳戶,一種當然就是騙人的帳戶嘛,\n\n14:07.014 --> 14:25.915\n他列為被騙的帳戶的部分他有一個做法是說我先凍結大部分的大筆交易但是你的日常所需民生所需還是可以正常運作比如說繳水電費比如說繳學費這種民生的必需品民生必需的這些消費他雖然被列為警示但是他在這種\n\n14:26.856 --> 14:44.763\n他雖然發出限制力但他實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊那等到司法流程確定他有罪那當然就是把整個凍結嘛整個就有罪嘛那如果無罪就恢復正常但在日常的運作他不會受到影響我不知道未來我在修法上有沒有可能往這個方向來走\n\n14:45.183 --> 15:11.333\n我會把委員的這樣建議然後轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解因為大家都知道有警示賬戶的話其實保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾那這兩者之間的權衡可能還是要按照我們法律上面的見解來做處理那但是委員的對選民的關心我們會把這個部分請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理\n\n15:11.513 --> 15:19.923\n是委員在打仗的這個方向我想過跟不及都容易引起人民的反感但這個時候我認為要稍微過一點都沒問題\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.598,"end":4.496,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席我們一樣請行政院的卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":16.332,"end":40.389,"text":"黃維豪院長好 院長我想今天台股已經到兩萬八了台積電一千五看起來經濟榮景一片大好但是實際上什麼狀況實際上當然就是說我國的平均薪資薪資中位數大約在三萬八左右換句話說國人壽星階級有大概半數以下的民眾他的薪水不到三萬八所以中位數是這個概念"},{"start":41.129,"end":65.168,"text":"那這樣子的族群不只是旺股興碳三萬八大概不時不刻存三年才可以買台積電一張股票那更不用講買房子的問題所以我想今天主要的內政質詢我要跟院長跟部長來討論我們的住房政策我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策那本席在去年三月的時候府上任是初畢竟我是這個"},{"start":67.19,"end":86.625,"text":"年輕人 算年輕人 買房子也非常辛苦所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策去年3月我一就任立法委就提出相關的修法那跟院長也跟部長來分享我想在提案說明 提案做很多次我們提案的這個內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外在育有未成年子女的家庭部分應該讓他額外獨立出來"},{"start":89.727,"end":99.013,"text":"用其他的方式來計算來保障或是鼓勵願意生小孩或是有生小孩的家庭他能夠入住社宅嗎因為現在有一種坊間一種說法"},{"start":99.906,"end":127.414,"text":"我買得起房子我就養不了孩子那我養得起孩子的時候我可能就買不起房子所以在雙子之間大家變成是兩難啊我到底要買房子好呢還是養孩子那如果小孩不小心懷孕了那生小孩之後我可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要為什麼我去年提出來那次現在也提出來表示說這一定是大家看到的相關的問題嘛那本席要講的是說今天"},{"start":128.527,"end":156.815,"text":"我們提的修正草案裡面我們希望的是說因為在原有的法規裡面在現有的法規裡面育有未成年子女兩人以上他本來是屬於弱勢的定義他定義裡面屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面但是我們認為說生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤生小孩這件事情就算你不是弱勢你也會生小孩我們都鼓勵全方位全社會大家都要鼓勵大家多生小孩所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來我們談到說這個權益的部分"},{"start":158.936,"end":176.703,"text":"我們看到內政部提的婚姻戶的社宅的身分別的戶數的配比把它分成優先戶跟一般戶優先戶裡面的20%要保留婚姻戶的保障一般戶裡面也是20%的保障我要跟院長跟部長討論說這個事情沒有對錯這是立場的問題就是說"},{"start":180.27,"end":200.491,"text":"我的邏輯,我提案的時候,我希望的是說,所謂婚育宅,應該不要排擠到本來的所謂優先戶,本來的弱勢戶,而是另外在本來的所謂一般戶裡面,提供一定比例的保障,讓生小孩,育有子女的家庭,能夠入住社會住宅。"},{"start":201.232,"end":212.302,"text":"但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面個別保障20%的就會預載我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是要推下去嗎還是有機會來修來調整"},{"start":215.891,"end":232.05,"text":"謝謝委員對社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定首先跟委員報告一下有跟住宅法把50%修為是弱勢其實我們在內政委會有討論過目前大概不會朝這個方向因為我們不認為現在的婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢"},{"start":232.931,"end":247.117,"text":"他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持那再來就是生多周少的問題現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外我們推出了叫多元興建的方式也就是說我們現在在包住代管"},{"start":247.737,"end":266.57,"text":"或者是其他如果有私人的企業願意協助我們來蓋這個社會住宅或是提供社會住宅的話那我們未來在婚姻家庭裡面這些的人就會增加那目前我們到年底之前推出1022戶大概分布在五都那因為台中比較沒有所以就沒有算進去待會我會給你討論到"},{"start":267.671,"end":296.273,"text":"那所以很希望說台中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央地方多跟中央政府來一起來協助那再來就是剛剛所說的就是你所謂的婚育宅裡面的這個小孩子或者是說即將要步入這個結婚的這個年輕人來講的話我們會跟衛福部來合作也就是說他如果領有這個媽媽手冊的結婚的家庭的話他在這個抽籤的比例上面會再給他多比較多的支持"},{"start":296.733,"end":315.606,"text":"所以就是總會員來講說大家對於婚姻宅都是樂觀其成但是因為婚姻宅的數目就是沒有那麼多所以還是要有抽籤為原則可是婚姻宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有譬如說結婚的補助或是生活津貼這方面的部分我們會再繼續加強當中那因為即將要開辦"},{"start":316.627,"end":330.075,"text":"我們認為開辦如果有這個方向的是很多人有需求的話會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面或者是我們財政部國土署財政部國產署所推的這個國產土地裡面再把它加重比例"},{"start":330.916,"end":359.495,"text":"部長那個一開始我想定義問題我沒有 我剛剛也強調了婚育的部分我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面我也沒有修法把弱勢度提高這版本不是我的因為內政委會已經沒有對 所以我沒有要這個東西我也沒有提這個案子我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障沒問題但是講的說我們為了鼓勵生育為了搶救我國的少子化我們希望的是說把所謂婚育的部分另外再鼓勵出來其他條件做這件事情我們現在正朝著這個方向這也是院長"},{"start":359.795,"end":380.229,"text":"部長跟你說明看數據就好婚姻戶有8%來自弱勢戶40%裡面有20%來自弱勢戶我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶我提供一個數據有台中的數據參考台中現階段婚姻戶裡面婚姻戶的資格佔弱勢戶的比例本來就已經高達20%"},{"start":381.946,"end":395.982,"text":"就換句話說本來所謂的優先戶或弱勢戶裡面他本來有生養子女的家庭就佔了20%所以你如果在另外再去加一個條件說在弱勢戶裡面要去放入所謂婚育的條件"},{"start":397.103,"end":423.926,"text":"反而我覺得這個比例來講幫助不大啦坦白講是幫助不大因為他本來就有20%我們不會朝著我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障所以剛剛除了直接這個社會住宅的進駐以外那還有包括像包租代管另外可能黃委員非常清楚就是租金補貼租金補貼在六都裡面台中市是算最高每一年大概高達五六十億以上"},{"start":424.766,"end":440.871,"text":"就是要準備回應我下一題做事務有很多的幫忙部長你看下一個就是我們看到中央很認真蓋了就是所謂社宅7個案場然後這個揮霧合計今年年底會有761這個你剛剛說1000多啦但總共不管我們可能數字有落差但不管760還是你講1000出頭"},{"start":444.228,"end":471.727,"text":"在新北 高雄 台北都有很遺憾的台中真的是掛零這個部分是要用什麼東西來補因為我想台中那過去幾年台中地方設宅的這個興建的比例興建設宅然後優先提供給婚姻的部分目前來講台中整體的這個育有未滿六歲子女入住的比例是14.7提供很多租金補貼等等的這個是等於換句話說我要提這個就是說因為等於中央地方還有這個朝野大家都認為這個"},{"start":472.968,"end":496.419,"text":"問題很嚴重 需要去解決所以大家推婚姻宅當然數字上可能有點跟不上以台中為例 你看台中真的我們台中六都是人口第二這個所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲 還是30到34歲就是我們從20到39歲這個區間我們在全國的排名都是第二但在這一波的婚姻宅裡面我們的數字是零 這個怎麼辦"},{"start":500.643,"end":522.857,"text":"報告委員我想不是這一波也就是說我們累計到今年年底今年年底不是明年年底是1022戶可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來可能包括台中在內不管是1000戶 2600戶或者是1萬戶一定會有包括台中的部分我們希望能夠跟台中市政委一起來合作因為在這個今年新聞稿9月4號的時候你們說要這個未來三年要釋出1萬戶"},{"start":524.85,"end":538.577,"text":"這個一萬戶未來三年要釋出這是內政部的新聞稿那釋出這一萬戶裡面你們的分配比例是按照比例分還是按照現實狀況來分因為這一萬戶裡面有沒有台中還是說台中的看狀況報告委員要協調"},{"start":539.798,"end":563.562,"text":"要協調第一個就是大家都喜歡有這個新的社宅可以入住但是我認為說婚姻家庭裡面應該也不排除包租代管那包租代管的部分現在業者非常努力在衝刺現在包租代管業者的這個戶數已經跟我們現在到年底以前有12萬戶接近相當的數目字那包租代管業者的那個房子也是很新這是私人興建的部分"},{"start":564.102,"end":587.145,"text":"這就是回到這個住宅法第3條這個所謂獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分那我是說鼓勵啦因為現在真的我覺得光是靠政府蓋可能這個效率太差了我想過去的幾次質詢我也跟院長跟部長提到其實應該去落實住宅法第3條去獎勵民間興辦社宅不管用什麼方式包含講真的現在的漁務也很多或是正在這個"},{"start":588.726,"end":615.029,"text":"但就是市面上的房子也很多要怎麼樣去談條件或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子它既然賣不掉它是不是有機會提供到相關的這個機制裡面來講讓更多的年輕人他有機會入住新的房子而且是用社宅的比例跟他的租金來入住精華地段我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題可以解決不然等你蓋我講了就算一萬戶一萬戶也就是一萬個家庭那其實"},{"start":615.709,"end":630.348,"text":"我們一年如果就算現在出生率很低啦有些數據也是趕不上啦真的我願意跟你補充一下像你講的方向非常正確我們也是朝著這個方向來處理第一個空漁物的部分你不管是就環保的觀點或者空漁物要把它去化"},{"start":630.808,"end":652.197,"text":"其實是非常的重要所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者他們有經驗的可以跟我們跟私人的這個建商來協調那這個就有兩個政策一個是鼓勵然後另外一個有沒有可能在空無一物尤其是稅制方面的給他加強之後如果你沒有去化的話你應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的這個人群"},{"start":652.697,"end":679.207,"text":"那我也知道在台中市或幾個大都會空餘物的比例非常高其實全國空餘物的比例已經接近快90萬戶左右那這些如果可以馬上釋放出來的話一定要有個政策工具那這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法治上需要大院來支持的話也希望委員能夠多多支持會啦 我們共同努力啦我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題要趕快把它解決掉所以才特別今天花了時間來跟兩位來討論這個問題好不好好 那接下來要談詐騙我想這個"},{"start":681.409,"end":697.607,"text":"詐騙的問題當然所有委員都關心這件事情但最近比較新的狀況是怎麼樣就是他對抗詐騙結果他的新聞報出來反而被人家報復可能被轉了一些小錢然後被檢舉就說這個是屬於人頭戶然後就被凍結了被凍結之後當然影響到他的生活的必須"},{"start":699.549,"end":726.397,"text":"這個整個部分來講的話對民生對一般的民眾影響非常的大那在解除這警示流程裡面本期曾經有去所知那當然你們的說明是講說只要經調查屬實提出相關證明文件那就可以來解除那第一個到底什麼叫相關證明文件我就沒有騙人我就是被人家陷害的我要怎麼證明我沒有被我要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情光是提出證明文件就是個很辛苦的事情那另外本辦也特別"},{"start":727.324,"end":746.256,"text":"去電警察局,問說如果我今天有這個問題,我要怎麼去提出解封的事情流程?基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼,他沒有收到這個指令,他不知道什麼叫提供相關證明,他必須看到法院的判決,證明你沒問題了,他才可以去行為給銀行等等,才可以去做這件事情。"},{"start":746.756,"end":767.051,"text":"所以在這個部分實務上他沒有辦法面對啊就說今天雖然說你們內政部的高層或者是警察局的高層覺得說只要提供相關證明調查屬實不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做但實務上基層的不管是銀行也好員警也好他沒辦法面對這件事情他不敢做這件事情所以我想問一下院長或是部長這部分到底要怎麼解決"},{"start":769.547,"end":786.377,"text":"謝謝院長那個謝謝委員啊對於我們基層同仁啊非常的肯定但是為了跟委員報告有關於打炸的部分的牽涉到的部會非常的多您現在所說的解除這個市井的這個流程警示的流程的話牽涉到第一個檢調單位第二個呢是金管會那我們也都知道"},{"start":787.998,"end":810.708,"text":"當時要把它變成是個警示帳號的時候也是經過一定的程序所以我們的警員是按照程序來處理這第一個然後第二個呢我們也會認為說因為就是有這樣的警示的帳號所以現在我們在處理打炸的時候呢包括被詐騙的這個人數或者是被詐騙的財損其實有下降到百分之二十幾甚至百分之四十幾左右那所以這個呢一定會造成很多所謂的"},{"start":811.528,"end":825.314,"text":"疑似被詐騙的這個警示帳號呢有一些不方便的地方那怎麼樣縮短這個流程然後不要影響到法定的程序我想我們的打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位來協商看怎麼樣處理會比較好"},{"start":826.732,"end":846.226,"text":"好,院長部長,這個我提供一個參考,今年我想新加坡提出一個所謂的Protection from Scams Bill的一個打詐的方案,那當然它的整個立法流程非常的嚴格,但它裡面有一個精神是什麼,就是說所謂的警示帳戶被列為一個是可能被騙的帳戶,一種當然就是騙人的帳戶嘛,"},{"start":847.014,"end":865.915,"text":"他列為被騙的帳戶的部分他有一個做法是說我先凍結大部分的大筆交易但是你的日常所需民生所需還是可以正常運作比如說繳水電費比如說繳學費這種民生的必需品民生必需的這些消費他雖然被列為警示但是他在這種"},{"start":866.856,"end":884.763,"text":"他雖然發出限制力但他實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊那等到司法流程確定他有罪那當然就是把整個凍結嘛整個就有罪嘛那如果無罪就恢復正常但在日常的運作他不會受到影響我不知道未來我在修法上有沒有可能往這個方向來走"},{"start":885.183,"end":911.333,"text":"我會把委員的這樣建議然後轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解因為大家都知道有警示賬戶的話其實保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾那這兩者之間的權衡可能還是要按照我們法律上面的見解來做處理那但是委員的對選民的關心我們會把這個部分請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理"},{"start":911.513,"end":919.923,"text":"是委員在打仗的這個方向我想過跟不及都容易引起人民的反感但這個時候我認為要稍微過一點都沒問題"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":161,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（9時32分）謝謝主席。主席，我們請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：院長好。院長，我想今天臺股已經到2萬8,000點，台積電1,500元，看起來經濟榮景一片大好，但是實際上是什麼狀況？實際上我國的薪資中位數大約在3萬8,000元左右，換句話說，國人受薪階級大概有半數民眾的薪水不到3萬8,000元，這是中位數的概念。這樣的族群不只是望「股」興嘆，3萬8,000元大概要不吃不喝存3年才買得起1張台積電股票，更不用講買房子的問題。","我想今天是內政組質詢，我要跟院長、部長來討論我們的住房政策，我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策，本席在去年3月甫上任之初，畢竟我是年輕人、算年輕人，買房子也非常辛苦，所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策，去年3月我一就任立法委員就提出相關的修法，也跟院長、部長來分享，我想在提案說明提過很多次，我們提案的內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外，在育有未成年子女的家庭部分，應該讓它額外獨立出來，用其他的方式來計算、來保障，或是鼓勵願意生小孩，或是有生小孩的家庭能夠入住社宅，因為現在坊間有一種說法，就是我買得起房子，我就養不了孩子，那我養得起孩子的時候，我可能就買不起房子，所以這雙「子」之間，變成是兩難，我到底要買房子好呢？還是養孩子？如果不小心懷孕了，在生小孩之後，可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子，所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要、為什麼我去年提出來、內政部現在也提出來，表示說一定是大家也看到了相關的問題。","本席要講的是，今天我們提的修正草案裡面，我們希望的是，因為在原有的法規裡面、在現有的法規裡面，育有未成年子女二人以上，它本來是屬於弱勢的定義，在定義裡面是屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面，但是我們認為生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤，生小孩這件事情，就算你不是弱勢，你也會生小孩，我們都鼓勵全方位、全社會……我們都鼓勵大家多生小孩，所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來。","我們談到權益的部分，我們看到內政部提的社宅身分別戶數配比是把它分成優先戶跟一般戶，優先戶裡面有20%是保留給婚育戶的保障，一般戶裡面也是20%的保障。我要跟院長、部長討論，這個事情沒有對錯，這是立場的問題；也就是我的邏輯，我提案的時候希望的是婚育宅應該不要排擠到本來所謂的優先戶、本來的弱勢戶，而是另外在本來的一般戶裡面提供一定比例的保障，讓育有子女的家庭能夠入住社會住宅。但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面各別保障20%的婚育宅，我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是要推下去嗎？還是有機會調整？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員對於社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定。","首先跟委員報告一下，有關住宅法把50%修為是弱勢，其實我們在內政委員會有討論過，目前大概不會朝這個方向，因為我們不認為現在婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢。"],["黃委員健豪：當然。"],["劉部長世芳：他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持。再來就是僧多粥少的問題，現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外，我們推出了叫多元興建的方式；也就是說，我們現在的包租代管，或者是其他如果有私人企業願意協助我們蓋社會住宅或者提供社會住宅的話，那麼未來在婚育家庭裡面的這些人就會增加。目前我們到年底之前推出1,022戶，大概分布在五都，因為臺中比較沒有，所以就沒有算進去。"],["黃委員健豪：待會兒我會跟你討論到。"],["劉部長世芳：所以很希望臺中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央政府一起來協助。","再來就是剛剛所說的，你所謂婚育宅裡面的小孩子，或者是即將要步入結婚的年輕人來講的話，我們會跟衛福部合作；也就是說，如果是領有媽媽手冊的結婚家庭，在抽籤的比例上面會再給比較多的支持。所以總歸來講，大家對於婚育宅都是樂觀其成，但是因為婚育宅的數目就是沒有那麼多，所以還是要以抽籤為原則。可是婚育宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有結婚補助或是生活津貼，這方面我們會再繼續加強當中。因為即將要開辦，我們認為開辦如果有這個方向而且很多人有需求的話，會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面，或者是在財政部國產署所推的國產土地裡面，再把它加重比例。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，我想一開始的定義問題，我剛才也強調了，關於婚育的部分，我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面，我也沒有修法把弱勢戶提高，這個版本不是我的。"],["劉部長世芳：因為內政委員會已經沒有……"],["黃委員健豪：對，所以我沒有要這個東西，我也沒有提這個案子。我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障，沒問題！但是講到我們為了鼓勵生育、為了搶救我國的少子化，我們希望的是把所謂婚育戶的部分另外再獨立出來其他條件做這件事情。"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們現在就朝這個方向，這也是院長……"],["黃委員健豪：我們擔心的是什麼？部長，我跟你說明，也跟院長說明，看數據就好，婚育戶如果8%來自弱勢戶，就是40%裡面的20%來自弱勢戶，我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶。我提供的數據有臺中的數據參考，臺中現階段就是婚育戶的資格占弱勢戶比例本來就已經高達20%了；換句話說，本來所謂的優先戶或弱勢戶裡面，本來有生養子女的家庭就占了20%。所以如果再另外去加個條件，是在弱勢戶裡面要放入婚育的條件，反而我覺得這個比例來講幫助不大，坦白講是幫助不大！因為它本來就有20%的……"],["卓院長榮泰：3.5倍……"],["劉部長世芳：對。我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶，弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障。所以剛剛除了直接社會住宅的進駐以外，還有包括像包租代管，另外可能黃委員非常清楚，那就是租金補貼，租金補貼在六都裡面，臺中市算最高，每一年大概高達五、六十億以上。"],["黃委員健豪：就是要準備回應我的下一題。"],["劉部長世芳：對弱勢戶也有很多的幫忙。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，你看下一個，我們看到中央很認真蓋了社宅，有7個案場，然後是婚育戶的部分，今年年底合計有761戶，你剛剛說一千多，也許我們可能數字上有落差，但不管是761戶還是你講的一千出頭，在新北、高雄、臺北都有，很遺憾的，臺中真的是掛零，這個部分是要用什麼東西來補？過去幾年在臺中興建社宅優先提供給婚姻部分的比例，目前來講，臺中整體育有未滿6歲子女入住的比例是14.7%，也提供很多租金補貼等等的，換句話說，我要提這個部分是因為中央、地方還有朝野都認為這個問題很嚴重，需要去解決，雖然大家對婚育宅在數字上可能有點跟不上。以臺中為例，臺中的人口在六都中是第二，所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲還是30到34歲，就算是從20到39歲這個區間，我們在全國的排名都是第二，但在這一波的婚育宅裡面，我們的數字是零，這個怎麼辦？部長不覺得這有點……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想不是這一波，也就是累計到今年年底是1,022戶，可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來，可能包括臺中在內，不管是1,000戶、2,600戶或者1萬戶，一定會有包括臺中的部分，我們希望能夠跟臺中市政府一起來合作。"],["黃委員健豪：因為在今年9月4日內政部的新聞稿，你們說要未來三年要釋出1萬戶嘛，那釋出的這1萬戶裡面，分配比例是按照比例分，還是按照現實狀況來分？這1萬戶裡面有沒有包括臺中？還是臺中的要看狀況，應該……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，這部分要協調。第一個就是大家都喜歡有新的社宅可以入住，但是我認為婚育家庭應該也不排除包租代管。包租代管的部分，業者非常努力在衝刺，現在包租代管的戶數，已經接近且相當於我們到年底以前的12萬戶這個數目字，而且包租代管業者的房子也是很新，是私人興建的。"],["黃委員健豪：這就是回到住宅法第三條獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分，我也是說鼓勵啦！因為現在我真的覺得光是靠政府蓋，可能效率太差了。在過去的幾次質詢，我也跟院長跟部長提到，應該去落實住宅法第三條，獎勵民間興辦社宅，不管用什麼方式。講真的，現在餘屋或是市面上的房子也很多，要怎麼樣談條件，或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子？既然賣不掉，是不是有機會提供到相關的機制裡面，讓更多的年輕人有機會入住新的房子？而且是用社宅的比例跟租金來入住精華地段，我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題時可以解決的方法。不然等你蓋，我講了就算1萬戶，1萬戶也就是1萬個家庭，現在出生率也低啦……"],["劉部長世芳：12萬戶。"],["黃委員健豪：我覺得數據真的也是趕不上啦！"],["劉部長世芳：委員，我跟你補充一下，我想你講的方向非常正確，我們也是朝著這個方向來處理。第一個，空、餘屋的部分不管是就環保的觀點或者空、餘屋要去化，其實非常重要，所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者，他們有經驗可以跟私人的建商來協調。這個部分就有兩個政策，一個是鼓勵，然後另一個是有沒有可能在空、餘屋，尤其是稅制方面來加強，如果沒有去化的話，應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的人群。我也知道在臺中市或幾個大都會，空、餘屋的比例非常高，其實全國空、餘屋的比例已經快接近90萬戶左右，這些如果可以馬上釋放出來，一定要有個政策工具，這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法制上需要大院支持的話，也希望委員能夠多多支持。"],["黃委員健豪：會啦！我們共同努力啦！我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題，要趕快把它解決掉，所以今天才特別花時間來跟兩位討論這個問題，好不好？","接下來談詐騙，我想詐騙的問題，當然所有委員都關心這件事情，但最近比較新的狀況就是有民眾對抗詐騙，結果新聞報出來後反而被人家報復，可能被轉了一些小錢，就被檢舉說這個是屬於人頭戶，然後就被凍結了。被凍結之後當然影響到他的生活所需，所以這整個部分來講，對民生、對一般民眾的影響非常大。","在解除警示流程方面，本席曾經去索資，當然你們的說明是說只要經調查屬實，提出相關證明文件，就可以來解除。但是第一個，到底什麼叫相關證明文件？我就沒有騙人，就是被人家陷害的，要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情？光是提出證明文件就是一件很辛苦的事情。另外本辦也特別去電警察局詢問，如果我今天有這個問題，要怎麼去提出解除的相關流程，基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼，他沒有收到這個指令，不知道什麼叫提供相關證明文件就可以，他必須看到法院的判決證明你沒問題了，他才可以行文給銀行等等單位，才能去做這件事情。所以對這個部分在實務上他沒有辦法面對，今天雖然說你們內政部的高層還是警察局的高層覺得只要提供相關證明文件來證明調查屬實，不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做，但實務上，基層不管是銀行也好、員警也好，他沒辦法面對這件事情、他不敢做這件事情。所以我想問一下院長或部長，這部分到底要怎麼解決？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員對於我們基層同仁非常地肯定，但是我要跟委員報告，有關於打詐的部分，牽涉到的部會非常多，您現在所說的解除警示流程會牽涉到第一個檢調單位，第二個是金管會。","我們都知道當時要把它變成是一個警示帳號的時候，也是經過一定的程序，所以我們的警員是按照程序處理，這是第一個。然後第二個，我們也會認為說，因為就是有這樣的警示帳號，所以現在我們在處理打詐的時候，包括被詐騙的人數或者是被詐騙的財損，其實有下降到百分之二十幾，甚至百分之四十幾左右，這一定會造成很多所謂疑似被詐騙的警示帳號有一些不方便的地方，怎麼樣縮短這個流程，然後不要影響到法定的程序，我想我們打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位協商，看怎麼樣處理會比較好。"],["黃委員健豪：院長、部長，我提供參考，今年新加坡提出所謂的Protection from Scams Bill打詐方案，當然它的整個立法流程非常嚴格，但它裡面有一個精神是什麼？就是所謂的警示帳戶，被列為一種是可能被騙的帳戶，另一種當然就是騙人的帳戶。列為被騙的帳戶部分，有一個做法是先凍結大部分的大筆交易，但是你的日常所需、民生所需還是可以正常運作，譬如說繳水電費、繳學費這種民生所需的消費，它雖然被列為警示、發出限制令，但是在這部分，實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊。等到司法流程確定他有罪，當然就是把這整個凍結；如果無罪就恢復正常，但日常的運作不會受到影響。我不知道未來我國在修法上針對這部分有沒有可能往這個方向走？"],["劉部長世芳：我會把委員這樣的建議轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解，因為大家都知道有警示帳戶的話，其實是保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙，但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾。"],["黃委員健豪：對。"],["劉部長世芳：這兩者之間的權衡，可能還是要按照我們法律上的見解來處理，但是委員對選民的關心，我們會轉達這個部分，請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，在打詐的這個方向，我想「過」跟「不及」都容易引起人民的反感，在這個時候，我認為要稍微過一點都沒有關係，但人性化的考量，我會請金管會跟法務部考量，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["江啟臣","張智倫","盧縣一","黃健豪","麥玉珍","黃仁","高金素梅","黃珊珊","吳思瑤","李坤城","沈伯洋","莊瑞雄","王美惠","羅美玲","陳永康","郭國文","林德福","陳冠廷","陳秀寳","李彥秀","吳琪銘"],"page_start":135,"meetingDate":["2025-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00004","1148701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00009"}}}