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923.653, \"end\": 924.853, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 924.853, \"end\": 925.033, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 925.033, \"end\": 925.154, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 925.154, \"end\": 925.634, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 925.634, \"end\": 925.654, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 948.324, \"end\": 948.605, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 948.605, \"end\": 948.765, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 948.765, \"end\": 948.785, \"score\": 0.705}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,281 --> 00:00:13,024\n討論一下我們在政府落實憲法的143條我們對於國家\n\n2\n00:00:37,818 --> 00:01:01,694\n對於土地分配的整理因應扶持自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之土地政策自從1948年起曾有三個階段陸續辦理工地販林第一個階段就是1948年自1976年的9月面積13萬8千餘公噸\n\n3\n00:01:10,797 --> 00:01:37,459\n成林農戶達28萬6千餘戶第二階段是1989年在專案的範例以專案方式辦理台中縣南斗縣等多處土地範例面積1萬1千餘公頃成林農戶8千餘戶在第三個階段在1994年的續辦工地範例一國有耕地\n\n4\n00:01:38,413 --> 00:01:51,830\n耕地放嶺實施辦法並計劃在2003年12月底辦理完成但後來在921政災之後在桃枝豐臺\n\n5\n00:01:55,132 --> 00:02:13,734\n颱風、土石流重創臺灣後,行政院前面檢討工地放領政策,從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項工地放領到至今。我想請教,停擺了18年之後,工地放領政策即將重啟,\n\n6\n00:02:15,355 --> 00:02:26,280\n行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約80公頃的台拓\n\n7\n00:02:27,657 --> 00:02:43,404\n排拓地作為示範區重新開啟工地放映預計在三個月內完成放映作業請問一下院長這一次的示範未來將評估是否擴大至全國1700公頃的國有地平地耕地\n\n8\n00:02:53,252 --> 00:03:17,700\n這個問題是不是未來事半成功之後後續會不會普遍全國的1700公頃的土地謝謝委員基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期的承租那麼也有養殖或者是耕作的事實為了這樣的歷史上所遺留下來的問題我們重新的檢驗過去\n\n9\n00:03:19,020 --> 00:03:43,349\n那您剛剛所提到的這個台拓地在大南澳地區因為它已經進行了某一個程序跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相的理解但是因為某種因故把它停下來了我們想從這個部分先來試行能不能續行來辦理它的後續從這個地方開始那會累積我們現在跟其他\n\n10\n00:03:44,560 --> 00:04:08,691\n下幾個階段的一些經驗那這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的一些討論那這個部分內政部可以再做作品說明總之這是一個事半的經驗如果可行我們可以考慮的把它放大部長你來回應一下好了因為這個前一段時間為了這個工地放年也弄得沸沸揚揚在各縣市裡面\n\n11\n00:04:09,827 --> 00:04:27,112\n那你们行政院也回应了在三个月内完成这个放你的一个作业那未来普及到整个全国那这个也是全国所需而必须行政院有正面的回应\n\n12\n00:04:27,931 --> 00:04:56,332\n內政部你們有正面回應要給我待會請內政部來回應一下因為本席要求行政院重啟工地範圍的政策是近日院長的回應將以賴總統的指示訂定的目標時程把它完成請問一下我們的部長在這個目標要多久一年兩年三年\n\n13\n00:04:58,564 --> 00:05:22,501\n謝謝委員的關心總統跟院長有多次指示包括內政部還有財政部現在對於所謂的工地放領的部分我們在進行的是清查的作業因為試射到甚至是五六十年以前的部分但是有幾個指示的要點第一個如果是牽涉到國土保安或者是自然保育或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法\n\n14\n00:05:23,302 --> 00:05:23,842\n你現在回答我這是人民的財產\n\n15\n00:05:51,960 --> 00:06:11,165\n但經過這麼多年的沒有辦法處理我想今天我問你都已經分了三個階段到你們現在的執政也希望在工地放零在政治上趕快執行你看看你們未來執行一年\n\n16\n00:06:16,227 --> 00:06:34,051\n這個目前的時程還沒有辦法確定因為現在我們的指示就是在宜蘭的這個地方大南澳的地方的台地先來做試辦那試辦的過程當中會有我們要申請的人他所提出的這些不管是文件是否是合法或者是合憲\n\n17\n00:06:35,111 --> 00:06:59,218\n或者是合規所以必須要有一個審議委員會要地方政府一起協助才有可能三個月內已經要回應都已經在做實施做示範在宜蘭這一些地方地區我想給國人知道到底你們的作業是不是要盡快你能不能回應要五年內還是要兩年內\n\n18\n00:07:00,185 --> 00:07:22,691\n我們現在要的是這個答案我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院讓行政院做綜合決定因為剛好我跟委員有報告過不是只有內政部還有包括財政部這種踢皮球的一些方式不是踢皮球我們是神聖在評估不是你們現在要做的你要獲得人民的能夠認同你們行政院內政部\n\n19\n00:07:23,351 --> 00:07:41,805\n就是應該要徹徹底底改變過去你們在對人民的承諾而且倒不清楚現在我們要你是要清楚因為你們重新要做嘛重新既然要獲得人民的肯定跟認同\n\n20\n00:07:42,403 --> 00:07:58,677\n你要讓人民對你們重啟信心嘛是不是現在院長你來回答如果在期程裡面要一年兩年三年五年你回答一下能夠盡速在幾年內希望能夠在工地放你的作業裡面\n\n21\n00:07:59,617 --> 00:08:15,298\n是不是盡快也讓人民對你們執政有信心嘛好不好因為我剛剛跟委員報告現在這個大南澳台拓地是在試辦把過去的程序把它完備過來所以他其中牽涉到很多的問題比方說\n\n22\n00:08:16,404 --> 00:08:41,779\n權力怎麼證明人民怎麼申請年限怎麼做基準再來地價如何計算到目前都還在試算當中所以我認為這件事辦至少要給一年的時間如果這一年時間做得出來以後我們才能推算以後的時間你有答案了嗎一年內把宜蘭這個地區的趕快去做完成另外我希望\n\n23\n00:08:42,977 --> 00:08:57,417\n把这些作业流程因为它既有的都有已经在三个阶段里面在过去所碰到的问题都已经历历在目你们从哪一个地方来节短补偿这个就是你们的经验\n\n24\n00:08:58,252 --> 00:09:12,931\n能夠趕快不要再走回頭路然後再研究在什麼本來三個階段裡面都已經有了嘛所以作為你們的佐證作為你們可以走捷徑的路來完成這樣的人民需求嘛\n\n25\n00:09:13,291 --> 00:09:42,691\n好不好每一個階段每一個年代已經處理過的方式程度內容都不盡相同所以要重新來看所以我們希望把宜蘭這個當作一個示範如果完成之後才來規劃未來有一個一套的標準統一的做法一年內那就趕快好不好一年內是說宜蘭這件事情對對對我至少要一年我們盡量把它完成針對我們花蓮災後慰問服務站的啟動我們碰到了一些問題\n\n26\n00:09:44,032 --> 00:09:59,212\n碰到了問題麻煩再重新嚴查到底是你們行政院內政部所下達的還是地方的行政院的分業搞不清楚狀況很多的這個\n\n27\n00:10:00,593 --> 00:10:24,686\n灾灾富要申請你們相關曾經的顧問所表示的只要是認定居住的市市店面也淹水都會這個都會從寬認地的補助但是本席接獲了很多族人無姓的先生的反應及多數的負數那\n\n28\n00:10:25,663 --> 00:10:46,974\n他復籍不再籍但是那個經過村長的證明確實他是從小到大在那個地方老家在那個地方那因為工作因素舉家了到都會區這是常常碰到的尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民已經將近達到55%55%所以\n\n29\n00:10:52,049 --> 00:11:18,136\n當然他們戶籍為了地方的福利政策那把戶籍遷到這個都會區但是老家都還在那個地方受到這一次的災區而影響他的一些住的地方那他們按照曾經的顧問所講的申請的程序都按照這個地方的分院竟然告訴他說你不在一起的\n\n30\n00:11:18,863 --> 00:11:37,051\n就不能申請這個補助的36萬對嗎院長他應該要有一個證明的依據所以你們要嚴查到底是行政院分院花蓮分院是怠惰還是不知道這個事你們要嚴查\n\n31\n00:11:39,552 --> 00:11:58,671\n這是人民的財產跟生命的財產他們需要你們的關愛跟補助他們需要這些但是碰到了這個困難奇怪上下一心本來你們行政院要這樣做結果上下分心不一樣的政策想法\n\n32\n00:11:59,272 --> 00:12:01,775\n曾經的顧問都已經講得很清楚只要是你的\n\n33\n00:12:19,372 --> 00:12:43,046\n你的住宿是在這裡經過村長的認定之後然後得以補住那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況然後行政院的好意內政部的好意變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況造成了地方的困擾報告委員我們來查明清楚一下就是剛剛院長所指示的有戶籍證明或是有居住事實因為他這個補助是根據家戶\n\n34\n00:12:44,627 --> 00:13:12,035\n我們不對個案做評析但是個案可以拿給我們我們來評估一下我們花蓮光復馬太安光復的太帕朗很多的災民新生只讓你們很清楚今天上下沒有一心你們的好運下面的分數並沒有按照你們的地方來做一個實施的政策造成我們需要你們\n\n35\n00:13:12,662 --> 00:13:22,472\n真正的關愛的時候達不到這樣的一個目的所以你們要清查個案並不影響整體的政策我們都是從寬來決定委員各位鼓勵當初這一陣子的服務不是曾經得贈我一個人\n\n36\n00:13:23,732 --> 00:13:52,019\n百多人在裡面服務各單位都有而且大家也非常有效率你把它說成是騙人這個真的不好他是行政政策顧問已經代表你們講話了那你們的好意有了地方搞不清楚狀況所以我們來查明啊嚴查一下好不好哪一個帶多的哪一個說的我們也會查出那個負數的那些投訴的人我們請他調查說到底是誰講的你們要嚴查嘛\n\n37\n00:13:52,819 --> 00:14:11,839\n對不對不是說領了薪水不做事哪有這種行政觀念我們都很辛苦在做事報告委員沒有領薪水不做事這樣對我們一站式服務的中央地方的公務人員是一種不太好的不禮貌的我替臺花蓮光復的災民替他們說一個情\n\n38\n00:14:12,819 --> 00:14:36,637\n為什麼因為我當下在10月24號我就到那個地方進駐感謝台糖的協助能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方我23號就10月23號我就在那個地方我現場看得非常清楚我在那個地方看了\n\n39\n00:14:37,270 --> 00:15:01,637\n真的情何以堪整個像一個原子彈炸掉的一個鄉鎮土地它的自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上整個街上整個都是情不堪真的是像一個災區\n\n40\n00:15:03,359 --> 00:15:25,654\n我們在這個地方我10月17號才收攤那你們行政院有發布10月18號應該11月18號應該就要回來了但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理因為他的堆砂已經在兩層樓以上他沒有辦法\n\n41\n00:15:48,324 --> 00:15:48,785\n好谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7281\t13024\t討論一下我們在政府落實憲法的143條我們對於國家\n37818\t61694\t對於土地分配的整理因應扶持自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之土地政策自從1948年起曾有三個階段陸續辦理工地販林第一個階段就是1948年自1976年的9月面積13萬8千餘公噸\n70797\t97459\t成林農戶達28萬6千餘戶第二階段是1989年在專案的範例以專案方式辦理台中縣南斗縣等多處土地範例面積1萬1千餘公頃成林農戶8千餘戶在第三個階段在1994年的續辦工地範例一國有耕地\n98413\t111830\t耕地放嶺實施辦法並計劃在2003年12月底辦理完成但後來在921政災之後在桃枝豐臺\n115132\t133734\t颱風、土石流重創臺灣後,行政院前面檢討工地放領政策,從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項工地放領到至今。我想請教,停擺了18年之後,工地放領政策即將重啟,\n135355\t146280\t行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約80公頃的台拓\n147657\t163404\t排拓地作為示範區重新開啟工地放映預計在三個月內完成放映作業請問一下院長這一次的示範未來將評估是否擴大至全國1700公頃的國有地 平地 耕地\n173252\t197700\t這個問題是不是未來事半成功之後後續會不會普遍全國的1700公頃的土地謝謝委員基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期的承租那麼也有養殖或者是耕作的事實為了這樣的歷史上所遺留下來的問題我們重新的檢驗過去\n199020\t223349\t那您剛剛所提到的這個台拓地在大南澳地區因為它已經進行了某一個程序跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相的理解但是因為某種因故把它停下來了我們想從這個部分先來試行能不能續行來辦理它的後續從這個地方開始那會累積我們現在跟其他\n224560\t248691\t下幾個階段的一些經驗那這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的一些討論那這個部分內政部可以再做作品說明總之這是一個事半的經驗如果可行我們可以考慮的把它放大部長你來回應一下好了因為這個前一段時間為了這個工地放年也弄得沸沸揚揚在各縣市裡面\n249827\t267112\t那你们行政院也回应了在三个月内完成这个放你的一个作业那未来普及到整个全国那这个也是全国所需而必须行政院有正面的回应\n267931\t296332\t內政部你們有正面回應要給我待會請內政部來回應一下因為本席要求行政院重啟工地範圍的政策是近日院長的回應將以賴總統的指示訂定的目標時程把它完成請問一下我們的部長在這個目標要多久一年兩年三年\n298564\t322501\t謝謝委員的關心總統跟院長有多次指示包括內政部還有財政部現在對於所謂的工地放領的部分我們在進行的是清查的作業因為試射到甚至是五六十年以前的部分但是有幾個指示的要點第一個如果是牽涉到國土保安或者是自然保育或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法\n323302\t323842\t你現在回答我這是人民的財產\n351960\t371165\t但經過這麼多年的沒有辦法處理我想今天我問你都已經分了三個階段到你們現在的執政也希望在工地放零在政治上趕快執行你看看你們未來執行一年\n376227\t394051\t這個目前的時程還沒有辦法確定因為現在我們的指示就是在宜蘭的這個地方大南澳的地方的台地先來做試辦那試辦的過程當中會有我們要申請的人他所提出的這些不管是文件是否是合法或者是合憲\n395111\t419218\t或者是合規所以必須要有一個審議委員會要地方政府一起協助才有可能三個月內已經要回應都已經在做實施做示範在宜蘭這一些地方地區我想給國人知道到底你們的作業是不是要盡快你能不能回應要五年內還是要兩年內\n420185\t442691\t我們現在要的是這個答案我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院讓行政院做綜合決定因為剛好我跟委員有報告過不是只有內政部還有包括財政部這種踢皮球的一些方式不是踢皮球我們是神聖在評估不是你們現在要做的你要獲得人民的能夠認同你們行政院內政部\n443351\t461805\t就是應該要徹徹底底改變過去你們在對人民的承諾而且倒不清楚現在我們要你是要清楚因為你們重新要做嘛重新既然要獲得人民的肯定跟認同\n462403\t478677\t你要讓人民對你們重啟信心嘛是不是現在院長你來回答如果在期程裡面要一年兩年三年五年你回答一下能夠盡速在幾年內希望能夠在工地放你的作業裡面\n479617\t495298\t是不是盡快也讓人民對你們執政有信心嘛好不好因為我剛剛跟委員報告現在這個大南澳台拓地是在試辦把過去的程序把它完備過來所以他其中牽涉到很多的問題比方說\n496404\t521779\t權力怎麼證明人民怎麼申請年限怎麼做基準再來地價如何計算到目前都還在試算當中所以我認為這件事辦至少要給一年的時間如果這一年時間做得出來以後我們才能推算以後的時間你有答案了嗎一年內把宜蘭這個地區的趕快去做完成另外我希望\n522977\t537417\t把这些作业流程因为它既有的都有已经在三个阶段里面在过去所碰到的问题都已经历历在目你们从哪一个地方来节短补偿这个就是你们的经验\n538252\t552931\t能夠趕快不要再走回頭路然後再研究在什麼本來三個階段裡面都已經有了嘛所以作為你們的佐證作為你們可以走捷徑的路來完成這樣的人民需求嘛\n553291\t582691\t好不好每一個階段每一個年代已經處理過的方式程度內容都不盡相同所以要重新來看所以我們希望把宜蘭這個當作一個示範如果完成之後才來規劃未來有一個一套的標準統一的做法一年內那就趕快好不好一年內是說宜蘭這件事情對對對我至少要一年我們盡量把它完成針對我們花蓮災後慰問服務站的啟動我們碰到了一些問題\n584032\t599212\t碰到了問題麻煩再重新嚴查到底是你們行政院內政部所下達的還是地方的行政院的分業搞不清楚狀況很多的這個\n600593\t624686\t灾 灾富要申請你們相關曾經的顧問所表示的只要是認定居住的市市店面也淹水都會這個都會從寬認地的補助但是本席接獲了很多族人無姓的先生的反應及多數的負數那\n625663\t646974\t他復籍不再籍但是那個經過村長的證明確實他是從小到大在那個地方老家在那個地方那因為工作因素舉家了到都會區這是常常碰到的尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民已經將近達到55%55%所以\n652049\t678136\t當然他們戶籍為了地方的福利政策那把戶籍遷到這個都會區但是老家都還在那個地方受到這一次的災區而影響他的一些住的地方那他們按照曾經的顧問所講的申請的程序都按照這個地方的分院竟然告訴他說你不在一起的\n678863\t697051\t就不能申請這個補助的36萬對嗎 院長他應該要有一個證明的依據所以你們要嚴查到底是行政院分院花蓮分院是怠惰還是不知道這個事你們要嚴查\n699552\t718671\t這是人民的財產跟生命的財產他們需要你們的關愛跟補助他們需要這些但是碰到了這個困難奇怪上下一心本來你們行政院要這樣做結果上下分心不一樣的政策想法\n719272\t721775\t曾經的顧問都已經講得很清楚只要是你的\n739372\t763046\t你的住宿是在這裡經過村長的認定之後然後得以補住那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況然後行政院的好意內政部的好意變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況造成了地方的困擾報告委員我們來查明清楚一下就是剛剛院長所指示的有戶籍證明或是有居住事實因為他這個補助是根據家戶\n764627\t792035\t我們不對個案做評析但是個案可以拿給我們我們來評估一下我們花蓮光復馬太安光復的太帕朗很多的災民 新生只讓你們很清楚今天上下沒有一心你們的好運 下面的分數並沒有按照你們的地方來做一個實施的政策造成我們需要你們\n792662\t802472\t真正的關愛的時候達不到這樣的一個目的所以你們要清查 個案並不影響整體的政策我們都是從寬來決定委員各位鼓勵當初這一陣子的服務不是曾經得贈我一個人\n803732\t832019\t百多人在裡面服務 各單位都有而且大家也非常有效率你把它說成是騙人 這個真的不好他是行政政策顧問 已經代表你們講話了那你們的好意有了 地方搞不清楚狀況所以我們來查明啊 嚴查一下好不好哪一個帶多的 哪一個說的我們也會查出 那個負數的 那些投訴的人我們請他調查說 到底是誰講的你們要嚴查嘛\n832819\t851839\t對不對 不是說領了薪水不做事哪有這種行政觀念我們都很辛苦在做事 報告委員沒有領薪水不做事這樣對我們一站式服務的中央地方的公務人員是一種不太好的 不禮貌的我替臺花蓮光復的災民替他們說一個情\n852819\t876637\t為什麼因為我當下在10月24號我就到那個地方進駐感謝台糖的協助能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方我23號就10月23號我就在那個地方我現場看得非常清楚我在那個地方看了\n877270\t901637\t真的情何以堪整個像一個原子彈炸掉的一個鄉鎮土地它的自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上整個街上整個都是情不堪真的是像一個災區\n903359\t925654\t我們在這個地方我10月17號才收攤那你們行政院有發布10月18號應該11月18號應該就要回來了但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理因為他的堆砂已經在兩層樓以上他沒有辦法\n948324\t948785\t好 谢谢\n","txt":"討論一下我們在政府落實憲法的143條我們對於國家\n對於土地分配的整理因應扶持自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之土地政策自從1948年起曾有三個階段陸續辦理工地販林第一個階段就是1948年自1976年的9月面積13萬8千餘公噸\n成林農戶達28萬6千餘戶第二階段是1989年在專案的範例以專案方式辦理台中縣南斗縣等多處土地範例面積1萬1千餘公頃成林農戶8千餘戶在第三個階段在1994年的續辦工地範例一國有耕地\n耕地放嶺實施辦法並計劃在2003年12月底辦理完成但後來在921政災之後在桃枝豐臺\n颱風、土石流重創臺灣後,行政院前面檢討工地放領政策,從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項工地放領到至今。我想請教,停擺了18年之後,工地放領政策即將重啟,\n行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約80公頃的台拓\n排拓地作為示範區重新開啟工地放映預計在三個月內完成放映作業請問一下院長這一次的示範未來將評估是否擴大至全國1700公頃的國有地 平地 耕地\n這個問題是不是未來事半成功之後後續會不會普遍全國的1700公頃的土地謝謝委員基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期的承租那麼也有養殖或者是耕作的事實為了這樣的歷史上所遺留下來的問題我們重新的檢驗過去\n那您剛剛所提到的這個台拓地在大南澳地區因為它已經進行了某一個程序跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相的理解但是因為某種因故把它停下來了我們想從這個部分先來試行能不能續行來辦理它的後續從這個地方開始那會累積我們現在跟其他\n下幾個階段的一些經驗那這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的一些討論那這個部分內政部可以再做作品說明總之這是一個事半的經驗如果可行我們可以考慮的把它放大部長你來回應一下好了因為這個前一段時間為了這個工地放年也弄得沸沸揚揚在各縣市裡面\n那你们行政院也回应了在三个月内完成这个放你的一个作业那未来普及到整个全国那这个也是全国所需而必须行政院有正面的回应\n內政部你們有正面回應要給我待會請內政部來回應一下因為本席要求行政院重啟工地範圍的政策是近日院長的回應將以賴總統的指示訂定的目標時程把它完成請問一下我們的部長在這個目標要多久一年兩年三年\n謝謝委員的關心總統跟院長有多次指示包括內政部還有財政部現在對於所謂的工地放領的部分我們在進行的是清查的作業因為試射到甚至是五六十年以前的部分但是有幾個指示的要點第一個如果是牽涉到國土保安或者是自然保育或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法\n你現在回答我這是人民的財產\n但經過這麼多年的沒有辦法處理我想今天我問你都已經分了三個階段到你們現在的執政也希望在工地放零在政治上趕快執行你看看你們未來執行一年\n這個目前的時程還沒有辦法確定因為現在我們的指示就是在宜蘭的這個地方大南澳的地方的台地先來做試辦那試辦的過程當中會有我們要申請的人他所提出的這些不管是文件是否是合法或者是合憲\n或者是合規所以必須要有一個審議委員會要地方政府一起協助才有可能三個月內已經要回應都已經在做實施做示範在宜蘭這一些地方地區我想給國人知道到底你們的作業是不是要盡快你能不能回應要五年內還是要兩年內\n我們現在要的是這個答案我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院讓行政院做綜合決定因為剛好我跟委員有報告過不是只有內政部還有包括財政部這種踢皮球的一些方式不是踢皮球我們是神聖在評估不是你們現在要做的你要獲得人民的能夠認同你們行政院內政部\n就是應該要徹徹底底改變過去你們在對人民的承諾而且倒不清楚現在我們要你是要清楚因為你們重新要做嘛重新既然要獲得人民的肯定跟認同\n你要讓人民對你們重啟信心嘛是不是現在院長你來回答如果在期程裡面要一年兩年三年五年你回答一下能夠盡速在幾年內希望能夠在工地放你的作業裡面\n是不是盡快也讓人民對你們執政有信心嘛好不好因為我剛剛跟委員報告現在這個大南澳台拓地是在試辦把過去的程序把它完備過來所以他其中牽涉到很多的問題比方說\n權力怎麼證明人民怎麼申請年限怎麼做基準再來地價如何計算到目前都還在試算當中所以我認為這件事辦至少要給一年的時間如果這一年時間做得出來以後我們才能推算以後的時間你有答案了嗎一年內把宜蘭這個地區的趕快去做完成另外我希望\n把这些作业流程因为它既有的都有已经在三个阶段里面在过去所碰到的问题都已经历历在目你们从哪一个地方来节短补偿这个就是你们的经验\n能夠趕快不要再走回頭路然後再研究在什麼本來三個階段裡面都已經有了嘛所以作為你們的佐證作為你們可以走捷徑的路來完成這樣的人民需求嘛\n好不好每一個階段每一個年代已經處理過的方式程度內容都不盡相同所以要重新來看所以我們希望把宜蘭這個當作一個示範如果完成之後才來規劃未來有一個一套的標準統一的做法一年內那就趕快好不好一年內是說宜蘭這件事情對對對我至少要一年我們盡量把它完成針對我們花蓮災後慰問服務站的啟動我們碰到了一些問題\n碰到了問題麻煩再重新嚴查到底是你們行政院內政部所下達的還是地方的行政院的分業搞不清楚狀況很多的這個\n灾 灾富要申請你們相關曾經的顧問所表示的只要是認定居住的市市店面也淹水都會這個都會從寬認地的補助但是本席接獲了很多族人無姓的先生的反應及多數的負數那\n他復籍不再籍但是那個經過村長的證明確實他是從小到大在那個地方老家在那個地方那因為工作因素舉家了到都會區這是常常碰到的尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民已經將近達到55%55%所以\n當然他們戶籍為了地方的福利政策那把戶籍遷到這個都會區但是老家都還在那個地方受到這一次的災區而影響他的一些住的地方那他們按照曾經的顧問所講的申請的程序都按照這個地方的分院竟然告訴他說你不在一起的\n就不能申請這個補助的36萬對嗎 院長他應該要有一個證明的依據所以你們要嚴查到底是行政院分院花蓮分院是怠惰還是不知道這個事你們要嚴查\n這是人民的財產跟生命的財產他們需要你們的關愛跟補助他們需要這些但是碰到了這個困難奇怪上下一心本來你們行政院要這樣做結果上下分心不一樣的政策想法\n曾經的顧問都已經講得很清楚只要是你的\n你的住宿是在這裡經過村長的認定之後然後得以補住那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況然後行政院的好意內政部的好意變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況造成了地方的困擾報告委員我們來查明清楚一下就是剛剛院長所指示的有戶籍證明或是有居住事實因為他這個補助是根據家戶\n我們不對個案做評析但是個案可以拿給我們我們來評估一下我們花蓮光復馬太安光復的太帕朗很多的災民 新生只讓你們很清楚今天上下沒有一心你們的好運 下面的分數並沒有按照你們的地方來做一個實施的政策造成我們需要你們\n真正的關愛的時候達不到這樣的一個目的所以你們要清查 個案並不影響整體的政策我們都是從寬來決定委員各位鼓勵當初這一陣子的服務不是曾經得贈我一個人\n百多人在裡面服務 各單位都有而且大家也非常有效率你把它說成是騙人 這個真的不好他是行政政策顧問 已經代表你們講話了那你們的好意有了 地方搞不清楚狀況所以我們來查明啊 嚴查一下好不好哪一個帶多的 哪一個說的我們也會查出 那個負數的 那些投訴的人我們請他調查說 到底是誰講的你們要嚴查嘛\n對不對 不是說領了薪水不做事哪有這種行政觀念我們都很辛苦在做事 報告委員沒有領薪水不做事這樣對我們一站式服務的中央地方的公務人員是一種不太好的 不禮貌的我替臺花蓮光復的災民替他們說一個情\n為什麼因為我當下在10月24號我就到那個地方進駐感謝台糖的協助能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方我23號就10月23號我就在那個地方我現場看得非常清楚我在那個地方看了\n真的情何以堪整個像一個原子彈炸掉的一個鄉鎮土地它的自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上整個街上整個都是情不堪真的是像一個災區\n我們在這個地方我10月17號才收攤那你們行政院有發布10月18號應該11月18號應該就要回來了但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理因為他的堆砂已經在兩層樓以上他沒有辦法\n好 谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.281 --> 00:13.024\n討論一下我們在政府落實憲法的143條我們對於國家\n\n00:37.818 --> 01:01.694\n對於土地分配的整理因應扶持自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之土地政策自從1948年起曾有三個階段陸續辦理工地販林第一個階段就是1948年自1976年的9月面積13萬8千餘公噸\n\n01:10.797 --> 01:37.459\n成林農戶達28萬6千餘戶第二階段是1989年在專案的範例以專案方式辦理台中縣南斗縣等多處土地範例面積1萬1千餘公頃成林農戶8千餘戶在第三個階段在1994年的續辦工地範例一國有耕地\n\n01:38.413 --> 01:51.830\n耕地放嶺實施辦法並計劃在2003年12月底辦理完成但後來在921政災之後在桃枝豐臺\n\n01:55.132 --> 02:13.734\n颱風、土石流重創臺灣後,行政院前面檢討工地放領政策,從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項工地放領到至今。我想請教,停擺了18年之後,工地放領政策即將重啟,\n\n02:15.355 --> 02:26.280\n行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約80公頃的台拓\n\n02:27.657 --> 02:43.404\n排拓地作為示範區重新開啟工地放映預計在三個月內完成放映作業請問一下院長這一次的示範未來將評估是否擴大至全國1700公頃的國有地平地耕地\n\n02:53.252 --> 03:17.700\n這個問題是不是未來事半成功之後後續會不會普遍全國的1700公頃的土地謝謝委員基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期的承租那麼也有養殖或者是耕作的事實為了這樣的歷史上所遺留下來的問題我們重新的檢驗過去\n\n03:19.020 --> 03:43.349\n那您剛剛所提到的這個台拓地在大南澳地區因為它已經進行了某一個程序跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相的理解但是因為某種因故把它停下來了我們想從這個部分先來試行能不能續行來辦理它的後續從這個地方開始那會累積我們現在跟其他\n\n03:44.560 --> 04:08.691\n下幾個階段的一些經驗那這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的一些討論那這個部分內政部可以再做作品說明總之這是一個事半的經驗如果可行我們可以考慮的把它放大部長你來回應一下好了因為這個前一段時間為了這個工地放年也弄得沸沸揚揚在各縣市裡面\n\n04:09.827 --> 04:27.112\n那你们行政院也回应了在三个月内完成这个放你的一个作业那未来普及到整个全国那这个也是全国所需而必须行政院有正面的回应\n\n04:27.931 --> 04:56.332\n內政部你們有正面回應要給我待會請內政部來回應一下因為本席要求行政院重啟工地範圍的政策是近日院長的回應將以賴總統的指示訂定的目標時程把它完成請問一下我們的部長在這個目標要多久一年兩年三年\n\n04:58.564 --> 05:22.501\n謝謝委員的關心總統跟院長有多次指示包括內政部還有財政部現在對於所謂的工地放領的部分我們在進行的是清查的作業因為試射到甚至是五六十年以前的部分但是有幾個指示的要點第一個如果是牽涉到國土保安或者是自然保育或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法\n\n05:23.302 --> 05:23.842\n你現在回答我這是人民的財產\n\n05:51.960 --> 06:11.165\n但經過這麼多年的沒有辦法處理我想今天我問你都已經分了三個階段到你們現在的執政也希望在工地放零在政治上趕快執行你看看你們未來執行一年\n\n06:16.227 --> 06:34.051\n這個目前的時程還沒有辦法確定因為現在我們的指示就是在宜蘭的這個地方大南澳的地方的台地先來做試辦那試辦的過程當中會有我們要申請的人他所提出的這些不管是文件是否是合法或者是合憲\n\n06:35.111 --> 06:59.218\n或者是合規所以必須要有一個審議委員會要地方政府一起協助才有可能三個月內已經要回應都已經在做實施做示範在宜蘭這一些地方地區我想給國人知道到底你們的作業是不是要盡快你能不能回應要五年內還是要兩年內\n\n07:00.185 --> 07:22.691\n我們現在要的是這個答案我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院讓行政院做綜合決定因為剛好我跟委員有報告過不是只有內政部還有包括財政部這種踢皮球的一些方式不是踢皮球我們是神聖在評估不是你們現在要做的你要獲得人民的能夠認同你們行政院內政部\n\n07:23.351 --> 07:41.805\n就是應該要徹徹底底改變過去你們在對人民的承諾而且倒不清楚現在我們要你是要清楚因為你們重新要做嘛重新既然要獲得人民的肯定跟認同\n\n07:42.403 --> 07:58.677\n你要讓人民對你們重啟信心嘛是不是現在院長你來回答如果在期程裡面要一年兩年三年五年你回答一下能夠盡速在幾年內希望能夠在工地放你的作業裡面\n\n07:59.617 --> 08:15.298\n是不是盡快也讓人民對你們執政有信心嘛好不好因為我剛剛跟委員報告現在這個大南澳台拓地是在試辦把過去的程序把它完備過來所以他其中牽涉到很多的問題比方說\n\n08:16.404 --> 08:41.779\n權力怎麼證明人民怎麼申請年限怎麼做基準再來地價如何計算到目前都還在試算當中所以我認為這件事辦至少要給一年的時間如果這一年時間做得出來以後我們才能推算以後的時間你有答案了嗎一年內把宜蘭這個地區的趕快去做完成另外我希望\n\n08:42.977 --> 08:57.417\n把这些作业流程因为它既有的都有已经在三个阶段里面在过去所碰到的问题都已经历历在目你们从哪一个地方来节短补偿这个就是你们的经验\n\n08:58.252 --> 09:12.931\n能夠趕快不要再走回頭路然後再研究在什麼本來三個階段裡面都已經有了嘛所以作為你們的佐證作為你們可以走捷徑的路來完成這樣的人民需求嘛\n\n09:13.291 --> 09:42.691\n好不好每一個階段每一個年代已經處理過的方式程度內容都不盡相同所以要重新來看所以我們希望把宜蘭這個當作一個示範如果完成之後才來規劃未來有一個一套的標準統一的做法一年內那就趕快好不好一年內是說宜蘭這件事情對對對我至少要一年我們盡量把它完成針對我們花蓮災後慰問服務站的啟動我們碰到了一些問題\n\n09:44.032 --> 09:59.212\n碰到了問題麻煩再重新嚴查到底是你們行政院內政部所下達的還是地方的行政院的分業搞不清楚狀況很多的這個\n\n10:00.593 --> 10:24.686\n灾灾富要申請你們相關曾經的顧問所表示的只要是認定居住的市市店面也淹水都會這個都會從寬認地的補助但是本席接獲了很多族人無姓的先生的反應及多數的負數那\n\n10:25.663 --> 10:46.974\n他復籍不再籍但是那個經過村長的證明確實他是從小到大在那個地方老家在那個地方那因為工作因素舉家了到都會區這是常常碰到的尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民已經將近達到55%55%所以\n\n10:52.049 --> 11:18.136\n當然他們戶籍為了地方的福利政策那把戶籍遷到這個都會區但是老家都還在那個地方受到這一次的災區而影響他的一些住的地方那他們按照曾經的顧問所講的申請的程序都按照這個地方的分院竟然告訴他說你不在一起的\n\n11:18.863 --> 11:37.051\n就不能申請這個補助的36萬對嗎院長他應該要有一個證明的依據所以你們要嚴查到底是行政院分院花蓮分院是怠惰還是不知道這個事你們要嚴查\n\n11:39.552 --> 11:58.671\n這是人民的財產跟生命的財產他們需要你們的關愛跟補助他們需要這些但是碰到了這個困難奇怪上下一心本來你們行政院要這樣做結果上下分心不一樣的政策想法\n\n11:59.272 --> 12:01.775\n曾經的顧問都已經講得很清楚只要是你的\n\n12:19.372 --> 12:43.046\n你的住宿是在這裡經過村長的認定之後然後得以補住那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況然後行政院的好意內政部的好意變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況造成了地方的困擾報告委員我們來查明清楚一下就是剛剛院長所指示的有戶籍證明或是有居住事實因為他這個補助是根據家戶\n\n12:44.627 --> 13:12.035\n我們不對個案做評析但是個案可以拿給我們我們來評估一下我們花蓮光復馬太安光復的太帕朗很多的災民新生只讓你們很清楚今天上下沒有一心你們的好運下面的分數並沒有按照你們的地方來做一個實施的政策造成我們需要你們\n\n13:12.662 --> 13:22.472\n真正的關愛的時候達不到這樣的一個目的所以你們要清查個案並不影響整體的政策我們都是從寬來決定委員各位鼓勵當初這一陣子的服務不是曾經得贈我一個人\n\n13:23.732 --> 13:52.019\n百多人在裡面服務各單位都有而且大家也非常有效率你把它說成是騙人這個真的不好他是行政政策顧問已經代表你們講話了那你們的好意有了地方搞不清楚狀況所以我們來查明啊嚴查一下好不好哪一個帶多的哪一個說的我們也會查出那個負數的那些投訴的人我們請他調查說到底是誰講的你們要嚴查嘛\n\n13:52.819 --> 14:11.839\n對不對不是說領了薪水不做事哪有這種行政觀念我們都很辛苦在做事報告委員沒有領薪水不做事這樣對我們一站式服務的中央地方的公務人員是一種不太好的不禮貌的我替臺花蓮光復的災民替他們說一個情\n\n14:12.819 --> 14:36.637\n為什麼因為我當下在10月24號我就到那個地方進駐感謝台糖的協助能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方我23號就10月23號我就在那個地方我現場看得非常清楚我在那個地方看了\n\n14:37.270 --> 15:01.637\n真的情何以堪整個像一個原子彈炸掉的一個鄉鎮土地它的自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上整個街上整個都是情不堪真的是像一個災區\n\n15:03.359 --> 15:25.654\n我們在這個地方我10月17號才收攤那你們行政院有發布10月18號應該11月18號應該就要回來了但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理因為他的堆砂已經在兩層樓以上他沒有辦法\n\n15:48.324 --> 15:48.785\n好谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.281,"end":13.024,"text":"討論一下我們在政府落實憲法的143條我們對於國家"},{"start":37.818,"end":61.694,"text":"對於土地分配的整理因應扶持自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之土地政策自從1948年起曾有三個階段陸續辦理工地販林第一個階段就是1948年自1976年的9月面積13萬8千餘公噸"},{"start":70.797,"end":97.459,"text":"成林農戶達28萬6千餘戶第二階段是1989年在專案的範例以專案方式辦理台中縣南斗縣等多處土地範例面積1萬1千餘公頃成林農戶8千餘戶在第三個階段在1994年的續辦工地範例一國有耕地"},{"start":98.413,"end":111.83,"text":"耕地放嶺實施辦法並計劃在2003年12月底辦理完成但後來在921政災之後在桃枝豐臺"},{"start":115.132,"end":133.734,"text":"颱風、土石流重創臺灣後,行政院前面檢討工地放領政策,從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項工地放領到至今。我想請教,停擺了18年之後,工地放領政策即將重啟,"},{"start":135.355,"end":146.28,"text":"行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約80公頃的台拓"},{"start":147.657,"end":163.404,"text":"排拓地作為示範區重新開啟工地放映預計在三個月內完成放映作業請問一下院長這一次的示範未來將評估是否擴大至全國1700公頃的國有地 平地 耕地"},{"start":173.252,"end":197.7,"text":"這個問題是不是未來事半成功之後後續會不會普遍全國的1700公頃的土地謝謝委員基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期的承租那麼也有養殖或者是耕作的事實為了這樣的歷史上所遺留下來的問題我們重新的檢驗過去"},{"start":199.02,"end":223.349,"text":"那您剛剛所提到的這個台拓地在大南澳地區因為它已經進行了某一個程序跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相的理解但是因為某種因故把它停下來了我們想從這個部分先來試行能不能續行來辦理它的後續從這個地方開始那會累積我們現在跟其他"},{"start":224.56,"end":248.691,"text":"下幾個階段的一些經驗那這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的一些討論那這個部分內政部可以再做作品說明總之這是一個事半的經驗如果可行我們可以考慮的把它放大部長你來回應一下好了因為這個前一段時間為了這個工地放年也弄得沸沸揚揚在各縣市裡面"},{"start":249.827,"end":267.112,"text":"那你们行政院也回应了在三个月内完成这个放你的一个作业那未来普及到整个全国那这个也是全国所需而必须行政院有正面的回应"},{"start":267.931,"end":296.332,"text":"內政部你們有正面回應要給我待會請內政部來回應一下因為本席要求行政院重啟工地範圍的政策是近日院長的回應將以賴總統的指示訂定的目標時程把它完成請問一下我們的部長在這個目標要多久一年兩年三年"},{"start":298.564,"end":322.501,"text":"謝謝委員的關心總統跟院長有多次指示包括內政部還有財政部現在對於所謂的工地放領的部分我們在進行的是清查的作業因為試射到甚至是五六十年以前的部分但是有幾個指示的要點第一個如果是牽涉到國土保安或者是自然保育或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法"},{"start":323.302,"end":323.842,"text":"你現在回答我這是人民的財產"},{"start":351.96,"end":371.165,"text":"但經過這麼多年的沒有辦法處理我想今天我問你都已經分了三個階段到你們現在的執政也希望在工地放零在政治上趕快執行你看看你們未來執行一年"},{"start":376.227,"end":394.051,"text":"這個目前的時程還沒有辦法確定因為現在我們的指示就是在宜蘭的這個地方大南澳的地方的台地先來做試辦那試辦的過程當中會有我們要申請的人他所提出的這些不管是文件是否是合法或者是合憲"},{"start":395.111,"end":419.218,"text":"或者是合規所以必須要有一個審議委員會要地方政府一起協助才有可能三個月內已經要回應都已經在做實施做示範在宜蘭這一些地方地區我想給國人知道到底你們的作業是不是要盡快你能不能回應要五年內還是要兩年內"},{"start":420.185,"end":442.691,"text":"我們現在要的是這個答案我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院讓行政院做綜合決定因為剛好我跟委員有報告過不是只有內政部還有包括財政部這種踢皮球的一些方式不是踢皮球我們是神聖在評估不是你們現在要做的你要獲得人民的能夠認同你們行政院內政部"},{"start":443.351,"end":461.805,"text":"就是應該要徹徹底底改變過去你們在對人民的承諾而且倒不清楚現在我們要你是要清楚因為你們重新要做嘛重新既然要獲得人民的肯定跟認同"},{"start":462.403,"end":478.677,"text":"你要讓人民對你們重啟信心嘛是不是現在院長你來回答如果在期程裡面要一年兩年三年五年你回答一下能夠盡速在幾年內希望能夠在工地放你的作業裡面"},{"start":479.617,"end":495.298,"text":"是不是盡快也讓人民對你們執政有信心嘛好不好因為我剛剛跟委員報告現在這個大南澳台拓地是在試辦把過去的程序把它完備過來所以他其中牽涉到很多的問題比方說"},{"start":496.404,"end":521.779,"text":"權力怎麼證明人民怎麼申請年限怎麼做基準再來地價如何計算到目前都還在試算當中所以我認為這件事辦至少要給一年的時間如果這一年時間做得出來以後我們才能推算以後的時間你有答案了嗎一年內把宜蘭這個地區的趕快去做完成另外我希望"},{"start":522.977,"end":537.417,"text":"把这些作业流程因为它既有的都有已经在三个阶段里面在过去所碰到的问题都已经历历在目你们从哪一个地方来节短补偿这个就是你们的经验"},{"start":538.252,"end":552.931,"text":"能夠趕快不要再走回頭路然後再研究在什麼本來三個階段裡面都已經有了嘛所以作為你們的佐證作為你們可以走捷徑的路來完成這樣的人民需求嘛"},{"start":553.291,"end":582.691,"text":"好不好每一個階段每一個年代已經處理過的方式程度內容都不盡相同所以要重新來看所以我們希望把宜蘭這個當作一個示範如果完成之後才來規劃未來有一個一套的標準統一的做法一年內那就趕快好不好一年內是說宜蘭這件事情對對對我至少要一年我們盡量把它完成針對我們花蓮災後慰問服務站的啟動我們碰到了一些問題"},{"start":584.032,"end":599.212,"text":"碰到了問題麻煩再重新嚴查到底是你們行政院內政部所下達的還是地方的行政院的分業搞不清楚狀況很多的這個"},{"start":600.593,"end":624.686,"text":"灾 灾富要申請你們相關曾經的顧問所表示的只要是認定居住的市市店面也淹水都會這個都會從寬認地的補助但是本席接獲了很多族人無姓的先生的反應及多數的負數那"},{"start":625.663,"end":646.974,"text":"他復籍不再籍但是那個經過村長的證明確實他是從小到大在那個地方老家在那個地方那因為工作因素舉家了到都會區這是常常碰到的尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民已經將近達到55%55%所以"},{"start":652.049,"end":678.136,"text":"當然他們戶籍為了地方的福利政策那把戶籍遷到這個都會區但是老家都還在那個地方受到這一次的災區而影響他的一些住的地方那他們按照曾經的顧問所講的申請的程序都按照這個地方的分院竟然告訴他說你不在一起的"},{"start":678.863,"end":697.051,"text":"就不能申請這個補助的36萬對嗎 院長他應該要有一個證明的依據所以你們要嚴查到底是行政院分院花蓮分院是怠惰還是不知道這個事你們要嚴查"},{"start":699.552,"end":718.671,"text":"這是人民的財產跟生命的財產他們需要你們的關愛跟補助他們需要這些但是碰到了這個困難奇怪上下一心本來你們行政院要這樣做結果上下分心不一樣的政策想法"},{"start":719.272,"end":721.775,"text":"曾經的顧問都已經講得很清楚只要是你的"},{"start":739.372,"end":763.046,"text":"你的住宿是在這裡經過村長的認定之後然後得以補住那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況然後行政院的好意內政部的好意變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況造成了地方的困擾報告委員我們來查明清楚一下就是剛剛院長所指示的有戶籍證明或是有居住事實因為他這個補助是根據家戶"},{"start":764.627,"end":792.035,"text":"我們不對個案做評析但是個案可以拿給我們我們來評估一下我們花蓮光復馬太安光復的太帕朗很多的災民 新生只讓你們很清楚今天上下沒有一心你們的好運 下面的分數並沒有按照你們的地方來做一個實施的政策造成我們需要你們"},{"start":792.662,"end":802.472,"text":"真正的關愛的時候達不到這樣的一個目的所以你們要清查 個案並不影響整體的政策我們都是從寬來決定委員各位鼓勵當初這一陣子的服務不是曾經得贈我一個人"},{"start":803.732,"end":832.019,"text":"百多人在裡面服務 各單位都有而且大家也非常有效率你把它說成是騙人 這個真的不好他是行政政策顧問 已經代表你們講話了那你們的好意有了 地方搞不清楚狀況所以我們來查明啊 嚴查一下好不好哪一個帶多的 哪一個說的我們也會查出 那個負數的 那些投訴的人我們請他調查說 到底是誰講的你們要嚴查嘛"},{"start":832.819,"end":851.839,"text":"對不對 不是說領了薪水不做事哪有這種行政觀念我們都很辛苦在做事 報告委員沒有領薪水不做事這樣對我們一站式服務的中央地方的公務人員是一種不太好的 不禮貌的我替臺花蓮光復的災民替他們說一個情"},{"start":852.819,"end":876.637,"text":"為什麼因為我當下在10月24號我就到那個地方進駐感謝台糖的協助能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方我23號就10月23號我就在那個地方我現場看得非常清楚我在那個地方看了"},{"start":877.27,"end":901.637,"text":"真的情何以堪整個像一個原子彈炸掉的一個鄉鎮土地它的自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上整個街上整個都是情不堪真的是像一個災區"},{"start":903.359,"end":925.654,"text":"我們在這個地方我10月17號才收攤那你們行政院有發布10月18號應該11月18號應該就要回來了但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理因為他的堆砂已經在兩層樓以上他沒有辦法"},{"start":948.324,"end":948.785,"text":"好 谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":312,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（10時4分）有請卓院長和內政部長。"],["主席：請卓院長和內政部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：院長早。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["黃委員仁：部長早。","討論一下政府落實憲法第一百四十三條「國家對於土地之分配與整理，應以扶植自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則」之土地政策，自從1948年起，曾有三個階段陸續辦理公地放領：第一個階段是1948年至1976年9月，面積十三萬八千餘公頃，承領農戶達二十八萬六千餘戶。第二階段是1989年專案放領，以專案方式辦理臺中縣、南投縣等多處土地放領，面積一萬一千餘公頃，承領農戶八千餘戶。第三個階段，在1994年續辦公地放領，依國有耕地放領實施辦法，並計畫在2003年12月底辦理完成，但後來在九二一震災之後，在桃芝颱風、土石流重創臺灣後，行政院全面檢討公地放領政策，從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項公地放領至今。","我想請教，停擺了18年之後，公地放領政策即將重啟，行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約八十公頃的台拓地作為示範區，重新開啟公地放領，預計在三個月內完成放領作業，請問院長，這一次的試辦，未來將評估是否擴大至全國1,700公頃的國有平地耕地？有關這個問題，未來試辦成功之後，後續會不會普及全國的1,700公頃的土地？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期承租，那麼也有養殖或者是耕作的事實，為了歷史上這樣所遺留下來的問題，我們重新的檢驗過去，您剛剛所提到在大南澳地區的台拓地，因為它已經進行了某一個程序，跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相理解，但是因為某種因素，因故把它停下來了，我們想從這個部分先來試行，能不能續行來辦理它的後續，從這個地方開始，這會累積我們現在跟其他下幾個階段的一些經驗，這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中，我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的討論，這個部分內政部可以再做說明，總之這是一個試辦的經驗，如果可行，我們可以考慮把它放大。"],["黃委員仁：好。部長，你也來回應一下好了，因為前一段時間，為了公地放領，在各縣市裡面也弄得沸沸揚揚，你們行政院也回應了，在三個月內完成放領的作業，未來普及到整個全國，這個也是全國所需，而必須行政院要有正面的回應，內政部，你們有正面回應，待會請內政部來回應一下。因為本席要求行政院重啟公地放領政策，是近日院長的回應，將以賴總統的指示，訂定目標、時程把它完成。請問一下部長，這個目標要多久？1年、2年、3年？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的關心，總統跟院長有多次指示，包括內政部還有財政部，現在對於所謂的公地放領的部分，我們在進行的是清查的作業，因為事涉到甚至是五、六十年以前的部分，但是有幾個指示的要點，第一個，如果是牽涉到國土保安，或者是自然保育，或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法，在這樣的法律規範之下，我們會把過去好幾個階段裡面，包括委員所關心的國有平地耕地，或者是甚至有一些原墾或者是地權的這個部分，一一把它先清查出來，清查出來的，目前首先會適用的對象，也需要經過地方政府，他們是不是也可以協助，因為在公地放領的過程當中有審議委員會……"],["黃委員仁：你現在回答我，這是人民的財產，經過這麼多年沒有辦法處理，今天我就問你，都已經分三個階段了，到現在你們執政，希望公地放領的政策能夠趕快執行，請問未來你們執行的時程是要一年、二年，還是我剛剛說的五年？你現在正面回答我。"],["劉部長世芳：目前的時程還沒有辦法確定，現在我們就是指示在宜蘭大南澳台拓地先行試辦，試辦的過程中，申請的人所提出的資料，不管文件是否合法、合憲或者合規……"],["黃委員仁：你現在就正面回答我嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：必須要有一個審議委員會，地方政府也要一起協助才有可能。"],["黃委員仁：我剛才已經講了，既然要在宜蘭這個地區試辦，而且三個月內要有所回應，我想應該讓國人知道……"],["劉部長世芳：這牽涉的土地範圍非常廣，無法在三個月內完成。"],["黃委員仁：你們的作業要儘快，能不能回應到底要五年還是二年？我們現在要的是這個答案。"],["劉部長世芳：我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院，讓行政院做綜合決定。剛好我也跟委員報告過，這不只有內政部，還包括財政部。"],["黃委員仁：院長，你來回答好了，這種踢皮球的方式不是你們現在應該要做的……"],["劉部長世芳：我不是踢皮球，我們是審慎在評估。"],["黃委員仁：既然要獲得人民認同，行政院、內政部就應該澈澈底底改變過去你們對人民不清楚的承諾，現在我們要的是清楚，因為你們要重新做嘛！既然要重新獲得人民肯定與認同，就要讓人民對你們重啟信心，是不是？院長，你來回答，這個期程是要一年、二年、三年或五年？你回答一下，可以儘速在幾年內讓公地放領的作業完成，儘快讓人民對你們的執政有信心？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛也已經跟委員報告過，現在是選定大南澳台拓地試辦，希望讓過去的程序能夠完備，這其中牽涉到很多問題，比方權利怎麼證明、人民怎麼申請、年限怎麼做基準，以及地價如何計算等等，這些目前都還在試算當中，所以我認為至少要給這個試辦一年時間，如果這一年時間做得出來，我們才能推算以後的時間。"],["黃委員仁：好，你有答案了，一年內把宜蘭這個地區的試辦趕快完成。另外，既然過去這三個階段所碰到的問題都已經歷歷在目，你們應該思考從哪個地方來截長補短，這是過去既有的經驗，要趕快進行，不要再走回頭路，然後說什麼要再研究等等，這三個階段本來就已經有了，可以作為你們執行的佐證，你們可以走捷徑，完成人民的需求，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：每一個階段、每一個年代已經處理過的方式、程度、內容都不盡相同，所以要重新來看，我們希望把宜蘭這個地區當作試辦點，完成之後再來規劃，讓未來有一套統一、標準的作法。"],["黃委員仁：好，院長，你都講了嘛！一年內，那就趕快，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：一年內是說宜蘭這件事情。"],["黃委員仁：對、對，另外就是……"],["卓院長榮泰：至少要一年，我們儘快把它完成。"],["黃委員仁：針對花蓮災後慰助服務站的啟動，我們碰到了一些問題，麻煩再重新嚴查，到底是行政院、內政部下達的指令，還是地方的行政院分院搞不清楚狀況？陳金德政委表示，只要認定有居住事實，住家、店面淹水，補助都會從寬認定，但本席接獲很多族人陳情，其中有位吳姓先生反映，他的戶籍不在籍，但經過村長證明，那裡確實是他從小到大的老家，因為工作因素舉家遷到都會區，這是部落常常碰到的事情，尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民，已經將近達到55%，當然他們為了地方的福利政策，把戶籍遷到都會區，但是老家都還在那個地方，而這一次的災區影響到他住的地方，他們按照陳金德顧問所講的申請程序，地方的分院竟然告訴他，不在籍的就不能申請這個補助36萬，對嗎？院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：他應該要有一個證明的依據。"],["黃委員仁：對嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：戶籍當然是一個。"],["黃委員仁：所以你們要嚴查，到底行政院的花蓮分院是怠惰，還是不知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：個案我當然……"],["黃委員仁：這個你們要嚴查。"],["卓院長榮泰：個案我必須請當時的……"],["黃委員仁：這是人民的財產跟生命，他們需要你們的關愛跟補助，他們需要這一些，但是碰到了這個困難，奇怪，上下一心，你們行政院本來就要這樣做，結果上下分心，不一樣的政策、想法，你們要嚴查。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，個案如果可以，我們請當時的一站式服務平台再去做考量，但是他一定要有戶籍證明，或者他必須要有居住的事實，如果都沒有的話，你無法證明這個……"],["黃委員仁：陳金德顧問都已經講得很清楚嘛！只要是你的住處是在這裡，經過村長的認定之後，得以補助，那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況？然後行政院的好意、內政部的好意，變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況，造成了地方的困擾，而對你們埋怨。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們來查明清楚一下，就是剛剛院長所指示的，有戶籍證明或是有居住事實，因為它這個補助是根據家戶……"],["黃委員仁：這本來就是嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：我們不對個案做評析，但是這個個案可以拿給我們，我們來評估一下，然後再跟委員做回復。"],["黃委員仁：這個是我替我們花蓮光復、馬太鞍、光復的太巴塱很多災民的心聲……"],["劉部長世芳：要有居住事實。"],["卓院長榮泰：也請委員多鼓勵，當初一段式的服務……"],["黃委員仁：讓你們很清楚，今天的上下沒有一心，你們的好意下面的分署……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有。"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，我們已經有非常多的人拿到補助費了。"],["黃委員仁：並沒有按照你們的政策來做實施，造成我們需要你們真正關愛的時候，達不到這樣的目的，所以你們要清查。"],["劉部長世芳：個案並不影響整體的政策，我們都是從寬來訂定。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員多為鼓勵，當初這一站式的服務，不是陳金德政委一個人，一百多人在裡面服務，各單位都有，而且大家也非常有效率，你把它說成是騙人，這個真的不好。"],["黃委員仁：他是行政政策顧問，已經代表你們講話了，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["劉部長世芳：政務委員。"],["黃委員仁：那你們的好意有了，地方搞不清楚狀況……"],["劉部長世芳：所以我們來查明。"],["卓院長榮泰：個案來查明清楚。"],["黃委員仁：嚴查一下好不好？哪一個怠惰的、哪一個說的……"],["劉部長世芳：對，我們沒有欺騙，我們都是按照政策來執行，沒有欺騙。"],["黃委員仁：我們也會請那些投訴的人，請他調查到底是誰講的，你們要嚴查嘛！對不對？不是說領了薪水不做事，哪有這種的行政官員！"],["劉部長世芳：我們都很辛苦在做事，報告委員，沒有領薪水不做事，這樣子對我們一站式服務的中央、地方的公務人員，是一種不太好的、不禮貌的。"],["黃委員仁：我替花蓮光復的災民，替他們說一個情，為什麼？因為我當下在9月24號，我就到那個地方進駐，也感謝台糖的協助，能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方。我9月23號就在那個地方，我現場看得非常清楚，我在那個地方看了真的情何以堪，整個像一個原子彈炸掉的鄉鎮，他自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓，房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上，整個街上都讓人情何以堪，真的是像一個災區。我們在那個地方，我10月17號才收攤，你們行政院有發布，11月18號應該就要回來了，但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理，因為堆沙已經在兩層樓以上，他沒有辦法耕種，我們原住民需要依靠農業來生存，我們是靠農吃農的，請行政院包含內政部，趕快、儘速解救他們的農地，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：農業部已經在做復原重建了。"],["卓院長榮泰：這就是未來根據特別條例編列特別預算所要全力搶救的事情，謝謝委員支持。"],["黃委員仁：以上再給我書面報告。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。","下一位請高金素梅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["江啟臣","張智倫","盧縣一","黃健豪","麥玉珍","黃仁","高金素梅","黃珊珊","吳思瑤","李坤城","沈伯洋","莊瑞雄","王美惠","羅美玲","陳永康","郭國文","林德福","陳冠廷","陳秀寳","李彥秀","吳琪銘"],"page_start":135,"meetingDate":["2025-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00004","1148701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00009"}}}