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491.0, \"text\": \"我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 462.515, \"end\": 462.615, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 462.615, \"end\": 463.055, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 463.055, \"end\": 463.155, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 463.155, \"end\": 463.355, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 463.355, \"end\": 463.895, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 463.895, \"end\": 464.035, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 464.035, \"end\": 464.135, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 464.135, \"end\": 464.255, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 464.255, \"end\": 464.335, \"score\": 0.974}, 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 708.729, \"end\": 710.77, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 710.77, \"end\": 711.21, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 711.21, \"end\": 711.33, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 711.33, \"end\": 711.47, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 711.47, \"end\": 711.83, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 711.83, \"end\": 712.05, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 712.05, \"end\": 712.47, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 712.47, \"end\": 712.89, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 712.89, \"end\": 714.751, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 714.751, \"end\": 715.211, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 715.211, \"end\": 715.331, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 715.331, \"end\": 715.431, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 715.431, \"end\": 715.531, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 715.531, \"end\": 716.011, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 716.011, \"end\": 716.191, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 716.191, \"end\": 716.271, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 716.271, \"end\": 716.552, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 716.552, \"end\": 716.652, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 716.652, \"end\": 717.012, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 717.012, \"end\": 717.172, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 717.172, \"end\": 717.192, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 718.552, \"end\": 727.383, \"text\": \"所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 718.552, \"end\": 718.632, 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{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 721.135, \"end\": 721.235, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 721.235, \"end\": 721.375, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 721.375, \"end\": 721.696, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 721.696, \"end\": 721.856, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 721.856, \"end\": 722.236, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 722.236, \"end\": 722.356, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 722.356, \"end\": 722.497, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 722.497, \"end\": 722.637, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 722.637, \"end\": 723.378, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 723.378, \"end\": 723.718, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 723.718, \"end\": 724.059, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 724.059, \"end\": 724.239, 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\"這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 728.385, \"end\": 728.506, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 728.506, \"end\": 728.646, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 728.646, \"end\": 728.766, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 728.766, \"end\": 729.006, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 729.006, \"end\": 729.326, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 729.326, \"end\": 729.466, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 729.466, \"end\": 729.726, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 729.726, \"end\": 729.846, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 729.846, \"end\": 730.086, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", 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\"end\": 834.632, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"銷\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 834.632, \"end\": 834.852, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 834.852, \"end\": 834.952, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 834.952, \"end\": 834.992, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 834.992, \"end\": 835.012, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 836.693, \"end\": 859.71, \"text\": \"那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 836.693, \"end\": 837.234, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 837.234, \"end\": 837.334, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 837.334, \"end\": 837.454, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 837.454, \"end\": 837.654, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", 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858.489, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 858.489, \"end\": 858.629, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 858.629, \"end\": 858.709, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 858.709, \"end\": 858.829, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 858.829, \"end\": 858.949, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 858.949, \"end\": 859.169, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 859.169, \"end\": 859.289, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 859.289, \"end\": 859.549, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 859.549, \"end\": 859.69, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 859.69, \"end\": 859.71, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 860.546, \"end\": 885.432, \"text\": \"是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 860.546, \"end\": 860.786, 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{\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 922.403, \"end\": 923.043, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 923.043, \"end\": 923.163, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 923.163, \"end\": 923.743, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 923.743, \"end\": 924.103, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 924.103, \"end\": 924.923, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 924.923, \"end\": 925.343, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 925.343, \"end\": 925.763, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"束\", \"start\": 925.763, \"end\": 925.923, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 925.923, \"end\": 926.043, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 926.043, \"end\": 926.383, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 926.383, \"end\": 926.523, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 926.523, \"end\": 926.623, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 926.623, \"end\": 926.704, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 926.704, \"end\": 927.084, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 927.084, \"end\": 927.224, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 927.224, \"end\": 927.404, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 927.404, \"end\": 927.684, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 927.684, \"end\": 927.964, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 927.964, \"end\": 928.124, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 928.124, \"end\": 928.264, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 928.264, \"end\": 929.544, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 929.544, \"end\": 930.564, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 930.564, \"end\": 930.824, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"唾\"}, {\"word\": \"液\", \"start\": 930.824, \"end\": 931.765, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"劑\"}, {\"word\": \"毒\", \"start\": 931.765, \"end\": 931.925, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 931.925, \"end\": 932.045, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 932.045, \"end\": 932.165, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 932.165, \"end\": 932.745, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"篩\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"劑\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 932.745, \"end\": 932.885, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 932.885, \"end\": 933.025, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 933.025, \"end\": 933.165, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 933.165, \"end\": 933.305, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 933.305, \"end\": 933.385, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 933.385, \"end\": 933.465, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 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936.586, \"end\": 936.726, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 936.726, \"end\": 937.886, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"劑\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 937.886, \"end\": 938.026, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 938.026, \"end\": 938.186, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 938.186, \"end\": 938.246, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 938.246, \"end\": 938.326, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 938.326, \"end\": 938.426, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 938.426, \"end\": 938.446, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 938.446, \"end\": 938.486, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 938.486, \"end\": 938.586, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 938.586, \"end\": 938.646, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 938.646, \"end\": 938.666, \"score\": 0.397}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 960.567, \"end\": 960.887, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 960.887, \"end\": 969.349, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 969.349, \"end\": 969.429, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 969.429, \"end\": 970.89, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 970.89, \"end\": 971.07, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 971.07, \"end\": 971.09, \"score\": 0.115}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:21,271 --> 00:00:31,176\n好謝謝主席我們請卓院長劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口\n\n2\n00:00:51,049 --> 00:01:05,685\n我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信\n\n3\n00:01:11,913 --> 00:01:35,549\n這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定\n\n4\n00:01:37,789 --> 00:02:05,421\n可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分\n\n5\n00:02:06,741 --> 00:02:21,627\n那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的\n\n6\n00:02:22,347 --> 00:02:50,081\n一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道\n\n7\n00:02:51,241 --> 00:03:19,396\n我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個他現在人還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿那移民署呢收容天數也屆滿了現在呢也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後呢他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎\n\n8\n00:03:20,857 --> 00:03:49,435\n所以我請教一下院長中國的侵擾形態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全\n\n9\n00:03:51,448 --> 00:04:09,373\n在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪\n\n10\n00:04:11,771 --> 00:04:36,042\n他盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論那如果按照院長所講的那現在要怎麼去加以處罰去規定現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來加以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是\n\n11\n00:04:37,468 --> 00:04:57,922\n製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定\n\n12\n00:05:01,644 --> 00:05:24,814\n他應該定期我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個然後所以我們希望能夠從這修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均這個等待遣返時間大概多久\n\n13\n00:05:25,618 --> 00:05:47,854\n不一定因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了好啊那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約\n\n14\n00:05:49,366 --> 00:06:11,629\n沒有要主動對外啦大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去他說我們反正就跟你拖那對待時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬照嗎\n\n15\n00:06:12,817 --> 00:06:29,724\n當然不可以但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來說簡單一點這個收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎\n\n16\n00:06:38,930 --> 00:06:59,495\n我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這段期間等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範\n\n17\n00:07:01,674 --> 00:07:23,776\n讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的這個收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰\n\n18\n00:07:25,100 --> 00:07:41,594\n我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問\n\n19\n00:07:42,515 --> 00:08:11,000\n我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊\n\n20\n00:08:13,049 --> 00:08:26,252\n然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得希望可以提高\n\n21\n00:08:27,725 --> 00:08:43,851\n因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下\n\n22\n00:08:44,951 --> 00:09:07,807\n這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕位在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面是不是那我請下一家院長或是部長\n\n23\n00:09:08,729 --> 00:09:15,015\n所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎會多這個嗎\n\n24\n00:09:16,935 --> 00:09:43,104\n我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面\n\n25\n00:09:43,824 --> 00:10:10,067\n目前中選會是這麼設計我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是讓揭露他有申報誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那問一下拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍領有中國的護照是當選無效呢還是負刑事責任\n\n26\n00:10:10,472 --> 00:10:31,065\n以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對我知道所以我特別要問拒絕之後\n\n27\n00:10:32,586 --> 00:10:58,440\n他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效\n\n28\n00:10:59,537 --> 00:11:27,759\n他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選啊是不是現在有規定是他可以參選嘛對不對如果我們知道他是有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選那所以呢就是我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是呢他是可以登記參選的對不對\n\n29\n00:11:29,483 --> 00:11:57,192\n他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍\n\n30\n00:11:58,552 --> 00:12:07,383\n所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊\n\n31\n00:12:08,385 --> 00:12:32,720\n這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎\n\n32\n00:12:33,280 --> 00:13:00,843\n那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延了而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國\n\n33\n00:13:02,291 --> 00:13:25,122\n國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對\n\n34\n00:13:27,723 --> 00:13:55,012\n其實應該往這個方式走我認為去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對\n\n35\n00:13:56,693 --> 00:14:19,710\n那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍\n\n36\n00:14:20,546 --> 00:14:45,432\n是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境\n\n37\n00:14:46,352 --> 00:15:13,721\n所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走好最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是\n\n38\n00:15:15,221 --> 00:15:38,666\n這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用\n\n39\n00:16:00,567 --> 00:16:11,090\n好謝謝好謝謝李委員謝謝卓院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n21271\t31176\t好 謝謝主席我們請卓院長 劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好 部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透 殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口\n51049\t65685\t我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信\n71913\t95549\t這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定\n97789\t125421\t可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分\n126741\t141627\t那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的\n142347\t170081\t一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道\n171241\t199396\t我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個他現在人還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿那移民署呢收容天數也屆滿了現在呢也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後呢他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎\n200857\t229435\t所以我請教一下院長中國的侵擾形態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全\n231448\t249373\t在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪\n251771\t276042\t他盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論那如果按照院長所講的那現在要怎麼去加以處罰去規定現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來加以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是\n277468\t297922\t製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定\n301644\t324814\t他應該定期我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個然後所以我們希望能夠從這修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均這個等待遣返時間大概多久\n325618\t347854\t不一定 因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了好啊 那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約\n349366\t371629\t沒有要主動對外啦 大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去他說我們反正就跟你拖那對待時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬照嗎\n372817\t389724\t當然不可以 但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來 說簡單一點這個收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎\n398930\t419495\t我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這段期間等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範\n421674\t443776\t讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的這個收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰\n445100\t461594\t我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問\n462515\t491000\t我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊\n493049\t506252\t然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得 希望可以提高\n507725\t523851\t因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下\n524951\t547807\t這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕位在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面是不是那我請下一家院長或是部長\n548729\t555015\t所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照 戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎 會多這個嗎\n556935\t583104\t我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面\n583824\t610067\t目前中選會是這麼設計我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是 讓揭露他有申報 誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那問一下 拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了 他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍 領有中國的護照是當選無效呢 還是負刑事責任\n610472\t631065\t以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊 所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對 我知道 所以我特別要問拒絕之後\n632586\t658440\t他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效\n659537\t687759\t他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選啊是不是現在有規定是他可以參選嘛對不對如果我們知道他是有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選那所以呢就是我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是呢他是可以登記參選的對不對\n689483\t717192\t他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍\n718552\t727383\t所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊\n728385\t752720\t這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎\n753280\t780843\t那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延了而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國\n782291\t805122\t國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對\n807723\t835012\t其實應該往這個方式走我認為去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對\n836693\t859710\t那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍\n860546\t885432\t是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境\n886352\t913721\t所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走好最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是\n915221\t938666\t這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用\n960567\t971090\t好 謝謝好 謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席我們請卓院長 劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好 部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透 殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口\n我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信\n這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定\n可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分\n那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的\n一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道\n我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個他現在人還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿那移民署呢收容天數也屆滿了現在呢也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後呢他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎\n所以我請教一下院長中國的侵擾形態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全\n在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪\n他盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論那如果按照院長所講的那現在要怎麼去加以處罰去規定現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來加以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是\n製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定\n他應該定期我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個然後所以我們希望能夠從這修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均這個等待遣返時間大概多久\n不一定 因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了好啊 那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約\n沒有要主動對外啦 大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去他說我們反正就跟你拖那對待時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬照嗎\n當然不可以 但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來 說簡單一點這個收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎\n我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這段期間等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範\n讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的這個收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰\n我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問\n我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊\n然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得 希望可以提高\n因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下\n這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕位在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面是不是那我請下一家院長或是部長\n所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照 戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎 會多這個嗎\n我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面\n目前中選會是這麼設計我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是 讓揭露他有申報 誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那問一下 拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了 他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍 領有中國的護照是當選無效呢 還是負刑事責任\n以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊 所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對 我知道 所以我特別要問拒絕之後\n他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效\n他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選啊是不是現在有規定是他可以參選嘛對不對如果我們知道他是有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選那所以呢就是我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是呢他是可以登記參選的對不對\n他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍\n所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊\n這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎\n那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延了而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國\n國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對\n其實應該往這個方式走我認為去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對\n那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍\n是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境\n所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走好最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是\n這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用\n好 謝謝好 謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:21.271 --> 00:31.176\n好謝謝主席我們請卓院長劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口\n\n00:51.049 --> 01:05.685\n我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信\n\n01:11.913 --> 01:35.549\n這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定\n\n01:37.789 --> 02:05.421\n可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分\n\n02:06.741 --> 02:21.627\n那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的\n\n02:22.347 --> 02:50.081\n一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道\n\n02:51.241 --> 03:19.396\n我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個他現在人還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿那移民署呢收容天數也屆滿了現在呢也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後呢他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎\n\n03:20.857 --> 03:49.435\n所以我請教一下院長中國的侵擾形態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全\n\n03:51.448 --> 04:09.373\n在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪\n\n04:11.771 --> 04:36.042\n他盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論那如果按照院長所講的那現在要怎麼去加以處罰去規定現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來加以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是\n\n04:37.468 --> 04:57.922\n製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定\n\n05:01.644 --> 05:24.814\n他應該定期我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個然後所以我們希望能夠從這修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均這個等待遣返時間大概多久\n\n05:25.618 --> 05:47.854\n不一定因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了好啊那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約\n\n05:49.366 --> 06:11.629\n沒有要主動對外啦大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去他說我們反正就跟你拖那對待時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬照嗎\n\n06:12.817 --> 06:29.724\n當然不可以但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來說簡單一點這個收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎\n\n06:38.930 --> 06:59.495\n我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這段期間等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範\n\n07:01.674 --> 07:23.776\n讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的這個收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰\n\n07:25.100 --> 07:41.594\n我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問\n\n07:42.515 --> 08:11.000\n我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊\n\n08:13.049 --> 08:26.252\n然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得希望可以提高\n\n08:27.725 --> 08:43.851\n因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下\n\n08:44.951 --> 09:07.807\n這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕位在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面是不是那我請下一家院長或是部長\n\n09:08.729 --> 09:15.015\n所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎會多這個嗎\n\n09:16.935 --> 09:43.104\n我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面\n\n09:43.824 --> 10:10.067\n目前中選會是這麼設計我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是讓揭露他有申報誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那問一下拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍領有中國的護照是當選無效呢還是負刑事責任\n\n10:10.472 --> 10:31.065\n以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對我知道所以我特別要問拒絕之後\n\n10:32.586 --> 10:58.440\n他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效\n\n10:59.537 --> 11:27.759\n他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選啊是不是現在有規定是他可以參選嘛對不對如果我們知道他是有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選那所以呢就是我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是呢他是可以登記參選的對不對\n\n11:29.483 --> 11:57.192\n他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍\n\n11:58.552 --> 12:07.383\n所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊\n\n12:08.385 --> 12:32.720\n這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎\n\n12:33.280 --> 13:00.843\n那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延了而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國\n\n13:02.291 --> 13:25.122\n國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對\n\n13:27.723 --> 13:55.012\n其實應該往這個方式走我認為去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對\n\n13:56.693 --> 14:19.710\n那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍\n\n14:20.546 --> 14:45.432\n是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境\n\n14:46.352 --> 15:13.721\n所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走好最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是\n\n15:15.221 --> 15:38.666\n這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用\n\n16:00.567 --> 16:11.090\n好謝謝好謝謝李委員謝謝卓院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":21.271,"end":31.176,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們請卓院長 劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好 部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透 殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口"},{"start":51.049,"end":65.685,"text":"我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信"},{"start":71.913,"end":95.549,"text":"這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定"},{"start":97.789,"end":125.421,"text":"可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分"},{"start":126.741,"end":141.627,"text":"那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的"},{"start":142.347,"end":170.081,"text":"一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道"},{"start":171.241,"end":199.396,"text":"我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個他現在人還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿那移民署呢收容天數也屆滿了現在呢也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後呢他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎"},{"start":200.857,"end":229.435,"text":"所以我請教一下院長中國的侵擾形態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全"},{"start":231.448,"end":249.373,"text":"在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪"},{"start":251.771,"end":276.042,"text":"他盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論那如果按照院長所講的那現在要怎麼去加以處罰去規定現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來加以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是"},{"start":277.468,"end":297.922,"text":"製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定"},{"start":301.644,"end":324.814,"text":"他應該定期我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個然後所以我們希望能夠從這修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均這個等待遣返時間大概多久"},{"start":325.618,"end":347.854,"text":"不一定 因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了好啊 那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約"},{"start":349.366,"end":371.629,"text":"沒有要主動對外啦 大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去他說我們反正就跟你拖那對待時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬照嗎"},{"start":372.817,"end":389.724,"text":"當然不可以 但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來 說簡單一點這個收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎"},{"start":398.93,"end":419.495,"text":"我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這段期間等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範"},{"start":421.674,"end":443.776,"text":"讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的這個收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰"},{"start":445.1,"end":461.594,"text":"我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問"},{"start":462.515,"end":491,"text":"我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就要依法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後呢這個如果是這個協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為啊這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊"},{"start":493.049,"end":506.252,"text":"然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得 希望可以提高"},{"start":507.725,"end":523.851,"text":"因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下"},{"start":524.951,"end":547.807,"text":"這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕位在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面是不是那我請下一家院長或是部長"},{"start":548.729,"end":555.015,"text":"所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照 戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎 會多這個嗎"},{"start":556.935,"end":583.104,"text":"我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面"},{"start":583.824,"end":610.067,"text":"目前中選會是這麼設計我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是 讓揭露他有申報 誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那問一下 拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了 他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍 領有中國的護照是當選無效呢 還是負刑事責任"},{"start":610.472,"end":631.065,"text":"以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊 所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對 我知道 所以我特別要問拒絕之後"},{"start":632.586,"end":658.44,"text":"他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效"},{"start":659.537,"end":687.759,"text":"他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選啊是不是現在有規定是他可以參選嘛對不對如果我們知道他是有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選那所以呢就是我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是呢他是可以登記參選的對不對"},{"start":689.483,"end":717.192,"text":"他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍"},{"start":718.552,"end":727.383,"text":"所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊"},{"start":728.385,"end":752.72,"text":"這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎"},{"start":753.28,"end":780.843,"text":"那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延了而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國"},{"start":782.291,"end":805.122,"text":"國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對"},{"start":807.723,"end":835.012,"text":"其實應該往這個方式走我認為去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對"},{"start":836.693,"end":859.71,"text":"那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢?這些人50人都是現在在我們中華民國境內嗎?還是有的在境外?沒有,有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了,那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢?他如果是合法,他不具備有中華民國國籍譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話,當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍"},{"start":860.546,"end":885.432,"text":"是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們這個撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩案條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期這個出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境"},{"start":886.352,"end":913.721,"text":"所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走好最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是"},{"start":915.221,"end":938.666,"text":"這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用"},{"start":960.567,"end":971.09,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":607,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時18分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長、劉部長。"],["主席：請卓院長及內政部劉部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：院長好、部長好。今天跟所有內閣來討論一個議題：假叛逃、真滲透，收容替代處分成為國安的破口。我舉一個最近的例子好了，10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就往金門禁止水域線漂流，他說來到金門玩，院長，你會相信嗎？不相信嘛！不是只有這個例子而已，最近五年來，中國偷渡客來到臺灣的人數超過50人，今年最多，這種利用假叛逃、真滲透的方式，是來測試臺灣的海防與法律。但現在對於偷渡客的法律規定，可以處5年以下的有期徒刑，但是我調了資料，目前大概就是2個月到8個月不等，判得非常輕，服刑期滿之後是由移民署收容，但是收容的上限規定是150天，收容屆滿之後移民署會做成「收容替代處分」，問題就出在這個收容替代處分，就是在等待遣返的這段期間，成為中國滲透臺灣一個最大的破口。","我舉兩個例子，因為這兩個例子是媒體上有報出來的。第一個是2023年一個中國的楊姓偷渡客，他現在已經被遣返回去了。他在被遣返回去的時候講說，他在等待被遣返的這段時間裡面去環島，他借了一輛摩托車去環島，他說其實大家不用緊張，因為查得最嚴的是你有沒有戴安全帽，他不會去檢查你的證件，就只看你有沒有戴安全帽而已。有網友就說，難道我們的國防韌性只剩下安全帽嗎？第二個他現在人還在臺灣，有一個人說他是前解放軍的艇長，我也不知道是真的還假的。他服刑期滿，移民署收容天數也屆滿了，現在也是做成一個收容替代的處分，然後他接受媒體專訪，大談怎麼偷渡來臺灣的過程，這難道沒有違反任何的法律規定嗎？所以我請教一下院長，中國的侵擾型態一直在與時俱進，中國的偷渡客判得輕，收容時間短，等待遣返時間長，收容替代處分形同虛設，讓他們可以從從容容地在臺灣趴趴走，形成國安的破口。我請問一下，目前平均等待遣返時間是多久？這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全？"],["卓院長榮泰：在現在這個狀況底下，我們要採取更嚴謹的標準，過去或許有一些法制上是比較鬆散一點的，對於他的管制行為是沒有那麼周全的。在這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪，他竟可以用這個方式散播很多不實的言論，但是……"],["李委員坤城：難道我們沒有任何規定嗎？他現在人還在臺灣耶！如果按照院長所講的，現在要怎麼去加嚴、去處罰、去規定？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果現行是容許的話，我們一定要從法制面來加以嚴厲地禁止。"],["李委員坤城：現在可以容許這樣子嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要來禁止。"],["李委員坤城：部長。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，有關在收容替代期間，他是不可以違反我們所說的，也就是你講的部分，製造一些假訊息，如果……"],["李委員坤城：他上廣播或是上媒體去談這個，沒有任何規定嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我們目前為止沒有特別強制的規定，但是……"],["李委員坤城：好，現在有這種情況，他人還在臺灣嘛。"],["劉部長世芳：住所要強制規定。"],["李委員坤城：他現在人還在臺灣，等待遣返嘛。"],["劉部長世芳：對，他在等待遣返。"],["李委員坤城：所以呢？"],["劉部長世芳：我們……"],["李委員坤城：這段時間也違反相關的規定了。"],["劉部長世芳：是，他應該定期……"],["李委員坤城：所以呢？對他沒有任何的處置？"],["劉部長世芳：我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫，也知道他現在所從事的行為，但是沒有辦法24小時監控，這是一個。所以我們希望能夠修法，往比較趨嚴的方式，來重新思考一下有關替代收容的部分，讓他再回去收容安置的場合。"],["李委員坤城：我問一下，現在平均等待遣返的時間大概多久？"],["劉部長世芳：不一定，因為要看我們跟對岸之間聯繫的管道上面，他們願不願意……"],["李委員坤城：對啊！所以……"],["劉部長世芳：事實上，是有可以回去的，但是就是要看他們的狀況。"],["李委員坤城：他們現在不收，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：有的收，有的不收。"],["李委員坤城：有的收，有的不收？"],["劉部長世芳：像第一個他就回去了。"],["李委員坤城：好，現在有多少人還在臺灣等待遣返？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有要主動對外，大約10個左右。"],["李委員坤城：10個左右？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["李委員坤城：如果中國對於陸委會一直已讀不回，要求要遣返，他們也不處理，怎麼辦？"],["劉部長世芳：這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾，但是我們還是會持續努力。"],["李委員坤城：所以他們如果不把這些人……我們要送回去，他們反正就跟你拖，那這段時間可以容許他們在臺灣趴趴走嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：當然不可以，但我剛剛跟你報告過，就是沒有辦法24小時監控，所以最好的方式是再把他請回收容替代的地方，譬如再把他關起來，說簡單一點是這樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是收容，不替代了。"],["劉部長世芳：對，但是還是必須經過一定的法律程序。"],["李委員坤城：好，那我就問，這個阮姓的人。"],["劉部長世芳：所謂的艇長。"],["李委員坤城：他會被再收容嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我們會針對他的個案，看是不是已經違反我們相關的規定，如果有的話，我們就會處置。"],["李委員坤城：這段等待期間平均來講是多久，我們也不知道，有可能半年，有可能一年，但這段時間，他們就趴趴走，我也不曉得移民署有做什麼樣的規範，讓他們可以受到我們的監管，但是如果這個楊姓的偷渡客所講為真，他還環島欸！我請教一下，入出國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例，對於這一種違反相關收容的規定，可不可以加重處罰？"],["劉部長世芳：我們會配合來修比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例。"],["李委員坤城：我覺得要修法啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，事實上我們在入出國移民法當中是有條文的，禁止他從事違反的行為，如果我們查起來其中應該是有包括不得接受媒體的訪問，所以這個應該很明確的。"],["李委員坤城：這個也不是一天兩天的事情了，媒體都有報出來了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們發現這些不實、不法的行為，我們會依法來處理。"],["李委員坤城：你們要處理。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["李委員坤城：現在檢舉中國偷渡客的獎金4、5萬塊，如果協助蒐證中國大陸的軍（潛）艦，每案3,000塊，我認為檢舉獎金太低了，可不可以再把它提高一點？檢舉中國偷渡客獎金才5萬塊，然後協助蒐證中國大陸的軍（潛）艦才3,000塊，這有沒有辦法提高？"],["劉部長世芳：我們會根據委員的意見來做修正的建議，希望可以提高。"],["李委員坤城：我覺得因為海巡署要守那麼長的一個海岸線……"],["劉部長世芳：海疆。"],["李委員坤城：其實有他的困難度，所以我們希望民力可以來幫忙解決，但是我覺得一件5萬塊太低了，要適時把它提高，也來增強我們的海防。","我再請教一下，內政部有預告修正公職人員選罷法的施行細則，要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候，要具結未在中國設有戶籍（包含持有中國居民身分證、定居證）與領用中國護照，並在明年三合一選舉的時候，會把整個申報結果放在選舉公報上面，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["李委員坤城：我請教一下院長或是部長，所以明年我們的選舉公報上面會多一欄，沒有中國的護照、戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎？會多這個嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會，可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的，他如果沒有雙重國籍的話，要做具結或是簽結。"],["李委員坤城：對，就是我們在登記的時候要具結，然後具結的結果會放在選舉公報上面？"],["劉部長世芳：選舉公報我們會尊重中選會，要不要放在選舉公報由中選會來律定。"],["李委員坤城：因為我看邱主委在接受專訪也講了，這個會放在選舉公報上面？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前中選會是這麼設計，我們也表達樂觀其成。"],["李委員坤城：所以會有一欄？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，揭露他有申報、誠實申報，讓所有的選民都知道。"],["李委員坤城：我問一下，具結的法律效力是怎麼樣？如果最後查出來他有雙重國籍，或是他具有中國的戶籍，領有中國的護照，是當選無效還是要負刑事責任？"],["劉部長世芳：以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下，他是當選有效，但是他需要在一年之內，根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍。因為新的法律……"],["李委員坤城：對啊，所以我覺得具結……"],["劉部長世芳：要大院修正通過才可以啊！我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理。"],["李委員坤城：對，我知道，所以我現在特別要問，具結之後他可以選嘛！但是具結還是有可能具有雙重國籍，有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照，但是他還是可以選，對不對？只是說選上之後，他要按照國籍法的規定，一年之內，要放棄外國國籍嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：對，要放棄外國國籍。"],["卓院長榮泰：他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的偽造文書罪喔！"],["李委員坤城：所以有刑事責任，但是沒有說當選無效，他當選有效，但是要在一年之內放棄國籍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果有中國的身分的話，他連臺灣人的身分都無法保留，更不要說他當選的身分。"],["李委員坤城：但是他可以參選，是不是？現在的規定是他可以參選，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果我們知道他有中國的身分，他連參選都沒有資格，當然，他連國人的身分都沒有，也不可能當選。"],["李委員坤城：所以我剛剛要問，如果他是中國籍人士，取得中華民國身分之後，設有戶籍十年以上他也可以選舉，但是他是可以登記參選的，對不對？他可以登記參選。只是當選之後，他可能具有中國國籍，我們就是按照國籍法規定，一年之內請他完成喪失國籍的手續，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["李委員坤城：目前的規定是這樣子嘛？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["李委員坤城：我再請教一下院長，就客觀事實而言，中國是不是屬於外國的國籍？"],["卓院長榮泰：中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍啊！"],["李委員坤城：所以他具有中國的國籍，他要放棄嘛，對不對？按照國籍法的規定，他要放棄外國的國籍，包含中國在內嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊！"],["李委員坤城：按照我們國籍法規定是這樣子，史雪燕也是因為沒有放棄中國國籍，所以被解職，對不對？我再請教一下，因為我剛才提到說你們還可以讓他去登記，我們要不要比照總統副總統選舉罷免法，你只要具有外國國籍，就不讓你登記，這樣不是比具結更有效力嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：那就是要修正選舉罷免法，不是總統副總統選舉罷免法……"],["李委員坤城：不是，我是問院長的意思。我認為讓你連登記都不能登記，這不是比具結更具有法律上的效力嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：修法的過程當中，我們來從各方面研析，這樣更周延，而且不必衍生登記、不登記以後的選舉問題，在他的權利上，若不屬於我國國民的、沒有我國國籍的、他有外國國籍的，能做清楚的界線，我想這也是我們現在思考的框架。"],["李委員坤城：應該要連登記都不能登記，但是現在是他具有中國國籍，他其實可以登記，只是選上他要放棄。你有外國國籍，那應該是連登記都不能登記。我不一定是指中國國籍，你有外國國籍，其實連登記都不能登記，我們總統副總統選罷法就是這樣規定的，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["李委員坤城：其實應該往這個方式走，我認為會比你說在施行細則裡面去弄一個說他要具結沒有中國的戶籍，或是沒有雙重國籍，我覺得更具有效力啊！這個我們當然有提案，我們希望行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話，未來這個提案會更順利。","這兩天的新聞說移民署有查到50個臺灣人，因事證明確，他在中國有設籍，依法要撤銷臺灣的戶籍，如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話，這些人要怎麼處理？這50人現在在我們中華民國境內嗎？還是有的在境外？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，有些已經不在臺灣境內。"],["李委員坤城：有些不在臺灣了，但如果在臺灣境內的怎麼辦？"],["劉部長世芳：他如果是合法，他不具備有中華民國國籍……"],["李委員坤城：對啊！已經被註銷了嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話，當然可以在臺灣，但是他不具備有中華民國國籍。"],["李委員坤城：是這樣子嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，如果人在境內，他被我們撤銷臺灣身分的話，依照兩岸條例第十八條規定，主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令十日內出境，逾限令出境期間仍然沒有出境的話，內政部移民署得強制出境。"],["李委員坤城：所以應該是要強制出境，是不是？"],["邱主任委員垂正：按照法規是這樣。"],["李委員坤城：按照法規其實是要強制出境啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：除非他又獲得了居留的身分。"],["劉部長世芳：要看他現在的身分是不是合法居留。"],["李委員坤城：好，你們要查清楚，要按照相關規定來做。","最後，時間有限，現在我看到警政署說關於毒駕，你們現在有唾液毒品快篩試劑可以用，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["李委員坤城：這個最快哪時候可以上路？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，現在我們根據道交條例第十九條之四，在10月20號已經進行預告，14日預告結束以後，就可以交給交通部做法制作業。"],["李委員坤城：唾液毒品快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路？因為你們說買了1萬2,545劑，哪時候可以上路？"],["劉部長世芳：1萬2,545劑。"],["李委員坤城：對、對，哪時候可以上路使用？"],["劉部長世芳：我們儘快，好不好？我們跟交通部來協商，就是剛講的，預告期滿了後就儘快。"],["李委員坤城：那算一算應該是十……"],["劉部長世芳：差不多，詳細的日期我們跟交通部處理好了，會跟李委員報告。"],["李委員坤城：好。一萬多劑太少了！"],["劉部長世芳：可是到明年還是可以用的。"],["李委員坤城：不是啦，我是希望這要多一點，因為毒駕很多被撤銷是因為驗尿時間太長了。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請沈伯洋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["江啟臣","張智倫","盧縣一","黃健豪","麥玉珍","黃仁","高金素梅","黃珊珊","吳思瑤","李坤城","沈伯洋","莊瑞雄","王美惠","羅美玲","陳永康","郭國文","林德福","陳冠廷","陳秀寳","李彥秀","吳琪銘"],"page_start":135,"meetingDate":["2025-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00004","1148701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00009"}}}