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\"但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 259.056, \"end\": 259.196, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 259.196, \"end\": 259.336, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 259.336, \"end\": 259.436, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 259.436, \"end\": 259.556, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 259.556, \"end\": 259.656, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 259.656, \"end\": 259.977, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 259.977, \"end\": 260.117, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 260.117, \"end\": 260.237, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 260.237, \"end\": 260.357, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 260.357, \"end\": 260.477, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 260.477, \"end\": 260.817, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 260.817, \"end\": 260.997, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"壽\"}, {\"word\": \"星\", \"start\": 260.997, \"end\": 261.838, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 261.838, \"end\": 262.018, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 262.018, \"end\": 262.198, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 262.198, \"end\": 262.838, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 262.838, \"end\": 263.259, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 263.259, \"end\": 263.379, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 263.379, \"end\": 263.539, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 263.539, \"end\": 263.719, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 263.719, \"end\": 264.299, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 264.299, \"end\": 264.64, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.64, \"end\": 265.0, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 265.0, \"end\": 266.061, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"腦\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 266.061, \"end\": 266.221, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 266.221, \"end\": 266.441, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 266.441, \"end\": 266.981, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 266.981, \"end\": 267.081, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 267.081, \"end\": 267.201, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"津\", \"start\": 267.201, \"end\": 267.842, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 267.842, \"end\": 267.962, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 267.962, \"end\": 268.482, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 268.482, \"end\": 268.662, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 268.662, \"end\": 268.702, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 268.702, \"end\": 268.902, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.088, \"end\": 278.528, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 278.528, \"end\": 278.889, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.889, \"end\": 279.249, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 279.249, \"end\": 279.789, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 279.789, \"end\": 279.889, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 279.889, \"end\": 280.249, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 280.249, \"end\": 280.97, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 280.97, \"end\": 281.19, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 281.19, \"end\": 281.39, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 281.39, \"end\": 281.57, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 281.57, \"end\": 281.69, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 281.69, \"end\": 281.85, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 281.85, \"end\": 282.231, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 282.231, \"end\": 282.251, \"score\": 0.977}]}, {\"start\": 282.791, \"end\": 307.182, \"text\": \"那最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億那這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 282.791, \"end\": 283.671, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 283.671, \"end\": 283.812, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 283.812, \"end\": 283.972, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 283.972, \"end\": 284.132, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 284.132, \"end\": 284.252, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 284.252, \"end\": 284.652, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 284.652, \"end\": 284.812, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 284.812, \"end\": 284.932, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 284.932, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 846.446, \"end\": 846.686, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 846.686, \"end\": 847.586, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 847.586, \"end\": 847.606, \"score\": 0.004}]}, {\"start\": 848.346, \"end\": 876.655, \"text\": \"不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說上市了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 848.346, \"end\": 848.426, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 848.426, \"end\": 848.586, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 848.586, \"end\": 848.726, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 848.726, \"end\": 848.866, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 848.866, \"end\": 849.066, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 849.066, \"end\": 849.266, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 849.266, \"end\": 849.406, \"score\": 0.987}, 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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 935.052, \"end\": 935.072, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,626 --> 00:00:18,753\n你好我們請院長跟農業部部長委員長還有陳部長請備詢\n\n2\n00:00:31,195 --> 00:00:56,490\n政委好院長好部長好院長我們一直都在呼籲說希望能夠減少放寬老農津貼的排富的門檻因為現在我們的國家第一個是財政相對比較寬裕而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好我們希望說經濟成長率好的部分它能夠包括到我們比較弱勢的族群\n\n3\n00:00:57,370 --> 00:01:12,129\n所以陳部長在5月28日的委員會的時候也已經有公開的表態就是支持適度的來去放寬排庫的門檻也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告\n\n4\n00:01:13,155 --> 00:01:31,947\n現在距離那個時間點也差不多也過了半年了我想要確認一下目前的進度我在這邊先講一下台灣的人均所得在這近十年它已經成長超過兩倍但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣我們之前有自己在立法院我們自己有提案相關的\n\n5\n00:01:33,248 --> 00:01:51,316\n案件我們是希望說至少要把原本的這個數字來提高到把它放寬到800萬那我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少還是有其他的數字請部長說明部長來報告過那我們還在研究請部長說明我跟委員報告就是在\n\n6\n00:01:52,937 --> 00:02:09,710\n應該是前幾個月的立法院委員會的時候我就說明其實大家都特別是很多委員期待特別是委員這邊期待隆隆今天本身的排布財管應該是隨著不只是CPIE還有房價指數就是CIV的部分能夠調整\n\n7\n00:02:10,730 --> 00:02:32,307\n接下來我們就內部去看了這些CIV的這個值其實它也在過去從100年開始也提升大概40%多所以我們就針對這樣的一個漲幅的比例就是朝政的比例我們也設計了一些新的牌幅的條款我們也同時考慮到就是說四年如果它本身每一年的CPI\n\n8\n00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:50,589\n變異動過大的時候那是不是說在這個四年之間有一個機制能夠讓我們及時來處理那這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告然後相關的這些法條現在正在審議那我們預計是希望在下個就是這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來\n\n9\n00:02:51,408 --> 00:03:13,768\n非常感謝這個也是替我們所有的農民來表達這個心聲因為其實整個國家的經濟在成長它隨著這個物價房價的增長它本身的價值不變但是因為它受到這個影響變成它反而要被排富掉了那變得沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼我想對這一些農民朋友們我認為是不太公平的\n\n10\n00:03:14,088 --> 00:03:37,626\n我也跟委員報告就是特別院長特別指示就是說其實農民所購買的房子他其實農民一輩子從事田裡面好不容易買到一個房子他不大可能為了這樣這樣子的一個生活就去賣這個房子所以相對的我們針對排富的這個房屋的所得的部分我們會依照這樣的原則去根據相關的一個模式去計算以後\n\n11\n00:03:38,206 --> 00:04:01,448\n做適度的一個提高希望能夠除了適度以外還是希望能夠對農民再好一點因為部長剛剛說的我們往更人性化來思考不要把它當作大家都會循法律上的可能的漏洞來跑人性化而且讓他年限的檢討能夠更彈性主要是為了實際可以加惠更多的農民非常感謝\n\n12\n00:04:02,648 --> 00:04:18,556\n也希望這樣子的農民的心聲大家可以聽到接下來就再討論農民津貼老農津貼的這一個部分我們可以知道說我們現在如果說按照我們現在的經濟成長率的話再過一年到兩年我們是會超過人均所得10萬美元\n\n13\n00:04:19,056 --> 00:04:42,251\n但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化\n\n14\n00:04:42,791 --> 00:05:07,182\n那最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億那這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神\n\n15\n00:05:08,536 --> 00:05:21,147\n謝謝委員的建議事實上我們在做這個排富條款的這些設計的時候我們也同時考慮到這個部分因為每四年根據CPI在一般年的話應該還可以但是特別是在比較動盪的就是說經濟\n\n16\n00:05:23,609 --> 00:05:47,164\n經濟的這些外在的因素比較有受影響的時候你的動盪比較大的時候那應該有適度的在四年之間是不是有一個彈性的調整事實上我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子在四年還是維持四年但是在四年之間如果你的CPI達到了某一個比例以上的時候我們就會啟動一個調整的機制我們也是朝這個方向來設計\n\n17\n00:05:48,806 --> 00:06:05,603\n所以如果遇到這種物價指數有不符合常態的波動的話能夠做即時的調整對我們大概還是以設計就是在這四年之間可能是兩年大概是兩年的方式如果說它的CPI已經到達一定觸發的門檻的時候我們就會來啟動\n\n18\n00:06:07,878 --> 00:06:25,380\n我們希望不是要給多啦我們希望是及時來反映這個物價我們也是朝這個方向來思考報委員這有兩點必須要補充第一個就是我們現在有很多不同身份類別的社會保險的給付制度那我們第一個考慮它的衡平性\n\n19\n00:06:26,221 --> 00:06:49,254\n這是第一個再來對農民的現在的給付到今天是比較低的如果大家討論的過程當中我們從農民先來做一個比較實際人性跟彈性的改革社會可以這樣接受的話我們從這裡開始未來是朝向整個橫平性一致性來做考量那可能做這個階段性的調整的進程要這樣把它拉出來\n\n20\n00:06:49,793 --> 00:07:13,107\n我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為在我們經濟成長的這個果實他們很多是從資本所得但是這些農民朋友們他們所得的方式不是透過投資股票等等的所以對他們的協助一定最有感所以還是希望院長跟部長能夠來去多來調整接下來要討論一下公定放年這之前在委員會我有質詢過\n\n21\n00:07:15,228 --> 00:07:40,856\n之前也提到從院長70多年前台灣推動跟著有期田讓29萬戶的這些電農可以有自己的土地這是一個成功的土地改革可是還有一些我們還沒有解決的問題我希望這個世代我們可以來把它解決掉工地放領這工地放領在宜蘭的大南澳的事辦進化就是要解決這些土地的問題讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權\n\n22\n00:07:41,696 --> 00:07:57,811\n想請教一下這個事辦的計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國那我們嘉義的農民有機會來去合法取得土地這個院長不知道有沒有相關的看法那農業部是不是支持這樣的計畫目前我們先行事辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地因為他在\n\n23\n00:07:58,447 --> 00:08:13,179\n整個過去的歷程當中他曾經達到相當程度的一個雙方政府跟這個土地使用權人之間的一個默契那他也是一直有租約的存在有耕作的事實那我們先把這個\n\n24\n00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:32,220\n現行的這個台拓地部分先把它試用試辦把它完成因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定申請的手續還有包括這個土地的價格怎麼去訂定年限訂在何時都還有相當複雜的問題我們先把它理出一套方式\n\n25\n00:08:32,961 --> 00:08:44,837\n這個先完成過去進行到一半的程序之後那用這個經驗在檢討二三階段持續的擴大總之總統一直指示常年來國人自己在使用的土地\n\n26\n00:08:45,987 --> 00:09:04,632\n不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的一個緊張的狀態我們說如果讓真正在使用土地他能夠握有這個土地的使用權我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的我們是希望說在一般的農業用地他可以就是參照大南澳的這個模式來辦理放令\n\n27\n00:09:06,092 --> 00:09:31,908\n這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下怎麼樣可以把這樣子的案例然後拓展到全國因為我們會按事辦然後按照時程來進行接下來要針對這個自從颱風之後的離農草跟農業保險我想第一線的心聲就是在那次颱風之後很多的農民都說不太想再種了想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣子的訊息跟數據\n\n28\n00:09:32,881 --> 00:10:01,413\n我想我們在從丹拉茲颱風以後我們連續多了很多大豪雨還有楊柳颱風一直到花家渣颱風其實我們一直在產地也跟農民去座談然後也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去這樣子繼續從農的一個信心所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險那個是我講我們農業部的責任也是我們農業部要做的\n\n29\n00:10:02,885 --> 00:10:09,059\n那農業保險它是不是有辦法做一個有效的一個方案來去把這個尼龍草做緩解\n\n30\n00:10:10,556 --> 00:10:38,443\n我跟委員說明就是農業保險本身它要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠涉算相關的保險額度有一些作物它基本上它已經很完整了我們就再推了但是有一些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分但是很可惜過去的這些歷史資料並不完備並不完備的時候如果貿然開的話它的保費會比較貴相關的它獲得理賠的金額會比較少\n\n31\n00:10:38,883 --> 00:11:07,660\n那如果貿然開的話反而會讓農民抱怨說他投保了高額的保險繳了高額的保險費可是理賠的時候理賠就非常少所以我們在這個之間我想我們一直要求我們試驗單位能夠更加緊的去建構這樣的一個資料庫那三年前這個陳吉仲前部長他任內有說要研議開發這個茶葉保險是不是我昨天詢問的是農金屬他說現在還是在研議中那研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項的原因\n\n32\n00:11:08,447 --> 00:11:09,910\n對但是茶葉的部分\n\n33\n00:11:11,465 --> 00:11:39,579\n有演繹的差不多現在就是說分區因為茶的產區從北到南它有不同的海拔那不同海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細因為太細的話就失掉保險的這些精神可是又不能劃太大因為劃太大的話不同海拔之間本身的遭受到天然災害的話可能不一樣特別是低溫這個部分所以我們正在做這個細部的討論那我們相信這樣的一個討論如果確認了以後我們就會對外公開\n\n34\n00:11:40,441 --> 00:11:40,641\n好謝謝部長\n\n35\n00:11:43,772 --> 00:12:12,170\n剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的最後一項是跨族幾個不太一樣的部會但是也是跟農業是直接相關的就是我們每到採收季節的時候我們的阿里山梅山中湖鄉的農友們他們天還沒有亮就是要把這些青菜水果竹筍瓦箱送因為我們的山路是窄坡是陡的如果車身輕扭力大籌據短抓地利用的四輪傳動的貨車是農民會喜歡的車款我常常聽到他們在講說\n\n36\n00:12:13,865 --> 00:12:43,165\n他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本的這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車那種輕型的托拉庫這樣子可是因為車商的評估當然這是市場經濟嘛他們認為說市場小那不敢進口不願投產所以我是覺得蠻遺憾就是說因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車那其實有的時候是使用的車齡已經非常久那它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型的這種托拉庫是完全不一樣的\n\n37\n00:12:45,165 --> 00:13:05,392\n我有幾個重點跟建議我是希望說院長可以來考慮一下因為現在農業部是有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助原則上是補助大概是二分之一但是有上限就是貨車每輛大概是36萬冷藏車是48萬現在的問題是說這些補助是限定在農民團體\n\n38\n00:13:07,012 --> 00:13:15,145\n比方說這個合作社產銷班等等的常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的產銷在班的班長他要負責去做分配\n\n39\n00:13:16,268 --> 00:13:39,618\n如果大家都在同一個時間來去採收同一個團體的車是排不太過來的真的要用車的農民他可能排不太到變成就是要用這種可能是用家用的可能是用我們剛才提到的比較老舊式的有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下把補助開放給農民個人申請讓他們能夠有機會去再引進這些這些車種\n\n40\n00:13:42,459 --> 00:14:07,606\n請部長說明我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的特別是在山區的部分因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的是差很多特別是牛力的部分所以我大概是前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題我也要求我們的農糧署針對車子的這些我們有一定的補助本身要有不同的類別\n\n41\n00:14:08,346 --> 00:14:36,655\n不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說上市了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話\n\n42\n00:14:38,015 --> 00:15:06,343\n那個會沒完沒了所以我們現在目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分但是我們會開放在共同集運的部分如果它有需要的時候不限一台我們可以再考量說有不同的方式來處理我們有強硬性說建議要怎麼樣的方式但是就是說不斷都有民眾跟我來講到說像日本的輕型的這種小貨車輕型的Torakus他們就直接甚至有直接講出哪些品牌哪些種類可是都一直沒有辦法引進\n\n43\n00:15:07,183 --> 00:15:30,271\n所以包含有些可能是跟財政部相關的可能農業部有機會的話我們希望跟財政部來討論一下包含牌照稅的是不是有這種暫緩免徵的這種其他的機制讓農民在採收的季節要在集運的時候他們可以用最好的車種最安全的車種也是最環保的方式拿來去把他們的貨品能夠安全的運下\n\n44\n00:15:32,128 --> 00:15:35,072\n好的謝謝委員我們來研究請農業部來思考謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝左院長下一位請陳秀寶委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13626\t18753\t你好 我們請院長跟農業部部長委員長還有陳部長請備詢\n31195\t56490\t政委好 院長好 部長好院長我們一直都在呼籲說希望能夠減少放寬老農津貼的排富的門檻因為現在我們的國家第一個是財政相對比較寬裕而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好我們希望說經濟成長率好的部分它能夠包括到我們比較弱勢的族群\n57370\t72129\t所以陳部長在5月28日的委員會的時候也已經有公開的表態就是支持適度的來去放寬排庫的門檻也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告\n73155\t91947\t現在距離那個時間點也差不多也過了半年了我想要確認一下目前的進度我在這邊先講一下台灣的人均所得在這近十年它已經成長超過兩倍但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣我們之前有自己在立法院我們自己有提案相關的\n93248\t111316\t案件我們是希望說至少要把原本的這個數字來提高到把它放寬到800萬那我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少還是有其他的數字請部長說明部長來報告過那我們還在研究請部長說明我跟委員報告就是在\n112937\t129710\t應該是前幾個月的立法院委員會的時候我就說明其實大家都特別是很多委員期待特別是委員這邊期待隆隆今天本身的排布財管應該是隨著不只是CPIE還有房價指數就是CIV的部分能夠調整\n130730\t152307\t接下來我們就內部去看了這些CIV的這個值其實它也在過去從100年開始也提升大概40%多所以我們就針對這樣的一個漲幅的比例就是朝政的比例我們也設計了一些新的牌幅的條款我們也同時考慮到就是說四年如果它本身每一年的CPI\n154620\t170589\t變異動過大的時候那是不是說在這個四年之間有一個機制能夠讓我們及時來處理那這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告然後相關的這些法條現在正在審議那我們預計是希望在下個就是這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來\n171408\t193768\t非常感謝 這個也是替我們所有的農民來表達這個心聲因為其實整個國家的經濟在成長它隨著這個物價 房價的增長它本身的價值不變但是因為它受到這個影響變成它反而要被排富掉了那變得沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼我想對這一些農民朋友們我認為是不太公平的\n194088\t217626\t我也跟委員報告就是特別院長特別指示就是說其實農民所購買的房子他其實農民一輩子從事田裡面好不容易買到一個房子他不大可能為了這樣這樣子的一個生活就去賣這個房子所以相對的我們針對排富的這個房屋的所得的部分我們會依照這樣的原則去根據相關的一個模式去計算以後\n218206\t241448\t做適度的一個提高希望能夠除了適度以外還是希望能夠對農民再好一點因為部長剛剛說的我們往更人性化來思考不要把它當作大家都會循法律上的可能的漏洞來跑人性化而且讓他年限的檢討能夠更彈性主要是為了實際可以加惠更多的農民非常感謝\n242648\t258556\t也希望這樣子的農民的心聲大家可以聽到接下來就再討論農民津貼老農津貼的這一個部分我們可以知道說我們現在如果說按照我們現在的經濟成長率的話再過一年到兩年我們是會超過人均所得10萬美元\n259056\t282251\t但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化\n282791\t307182\t那最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億那這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神\n308536\t321147\t謝謝委員的建議 事實上我們在做這個排富條款的這些設計的時候我們也同時考慮到這個部分因為每四年根據CPI在一般年的話應該還可以但是特別是在比較動盪的就是說經濟\n323609\t347164\t經濟的這些外在的因素比較有受影響的時候你的動盪比較大的時候那應該有適度的在四年之間是不是有一個彈性的調整事實上我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子在四年還是維持四年但是在四年之間如果你的CPI達到了某一個比例以上的時候我們就會啟動一個調整的機制我們也是朝這個方向來設計\n348806\t365603\t所以如果遇到這種物價指數有不符合常態的波動的話能夠做即時的調整對我們大概還是以設計就是在這四年之間可能是兩年大概是兩年的方式如果說它的CPI已經到達一定觸發的門檻的時候我們就會來啟動\n367878\t385380\t我們希望不是要給多啦我們希望是及時來反映這個物價我們也是朝這個方向來思考報委員這有兩點必須要補充第一個就是我們現在有很多不同身份類別的社會保險的給付制度那我們第一個考慮它的衡平性\n386221\t409254\t這是第一個再來對農民的現在的給付到今天是比較低的如果大家討論的過程當中我們從農民先來做一個比較實際人性跟彈性的改革社會可以這樣接受的話我們從這裡開始未來是朝向整個橫平性一致性來做考量那可能做這個階段性的調整的進程要這樣把它拉出來\n409793\t433107\t我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為在我們經濟成長的這個果實他們很多是從資本所得但是這些農民朋友們他們所得的方式不是透過投資股票等等的所以對他們的協助一定最有感所以還是希望院長跟部長能夠來去多來調整接下來要討論一下公定放年這之前在委員會我有質詢過\n435228\t460856\t之前也提到從院長70多年前台灣推動跟著有期田讓29萬戶的這些電農可以有自己的土地這是一個成功的土地改革可是還有一些我們還沒有解決的問題我希望這個世代我們可以來把它解決掉工地放領這工地放領在宜蘭的大南澳的事辦進化就是要解決這些土地的問題讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權\n461696\t477811\t想請教一下這個事辦的計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國那我們嘉義的農民有機會來去合法取得土地這個院長不知道有沒有相關的看法那農業部是不是支持這樣的計畫目前我們先行事辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地因為他在\n478447\t493179\t整個過去的歷程當中他曾經達到相當程度的一個雙方政府跟這個土地使用權人之間的一個默契那他也是一直有租約的存在有耕作的事實那我們先把這個\n494780\t512220\t現行的這個台拓地部分先把它試用試辦把它完成因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定申請的手續還有包括這個土地的價格怎麼去訂定年限訂在何時都還有相當複雜的問題我們先把它理出一套方式\n512961\t524837\t這個先完成過去進行到一半的程序之後那用這個經驗在檢討二三階段持續的擴大總之總統一直指示常年來國人自己在使用的土地\n525987\t544632\t不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的一個緊張的狀態我們說如果讓真正在使用土地他能夠握有這個土地的使用權我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的我們是希望說在一般的農業用地他可以就是參照大南澳的這個模式來辦理放令\n546092\t571908\t這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下怎麼樣可以把這樣子的案例然後拓展到全國因為我們會按事辦然後按照時程來進行接下來要針對這個自從颱風之後的離農草跟農業保險我想第一線的心聲就是在那次颱風之後很多的農民都說不太想再種了想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣子的訊息跟數據\n572881\t601413\t我想我們在從丹拉茲颱風以後我們連續多了很多大豪雨還有楊柳颱風一直到花家渣颱風其實我們一直在產地也跟農民去座談然後也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去這樣子繼續從農的一個信心所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險那個是我講我們農業部的責任也是我們農業部要做的\n602885\t609059\t那農業保險它是不是有辦法做一個有效的一個方案來去把這個尼龍草做緩解\n610556\t638443\t我跟委員說明就是農業保險本身它要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠涉算相關的保險額度有一些作物它基本上它已經很完整了我們就再推了但是有一些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分但是很可惜過去的這些歷史資料並不完備並不完備的時候如果貿然開的話它的保費會比較貴相關的它獲得理賠的金額會比較少\n638883\t667660\t那如果貿然開的話反而會讓農民抱怨說他投保了高額的保險繳了高額的保險費可是理賠的時候理賠就非常少所以我們在這個之間我想我們一直要求我們試驗單位能夠更加緊的去建構這樣的一個資料庫那三年前這個陳吉仲前部長他任內有說要研議開發這個茶葉保險是不是我昨天詢問的是農金屬他說現在還是在研議中那研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項的原因\n668447\t669910\t對 但是茶葉的部分\n671465\t699579\t有演繹的差不多現在就是說分區因為茶的產區從北到南它有不同的海拔那不同海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細因為太細的話就失掉保險的這些精神可是又不能劃太大因為劃太大的話不同海拔之間本身的遭受到天然災害的話可能不一樣特別是低溫這個部分所以我們正在做這個細部的討論那我們相信這樣的一個討論如果確認了以後我們就會對外公開\n700441\t700641\t好 謝謝部長\n703772\t732170\t剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的最後一項是跨族幾個不太一樣的部會但是也是跟農業是直接相關的就是我們每到採收季節的時候我們的阿里山梅山中湖鄉的農友們他們天還沒有亮就是要把這些青菜水果竹筍瓦箱送因為我們的山路是窄坡是陡的如果車身輕扭力大籌據短抓地利用的四輪傳動的貨車是農民會喜歡的車款我常常聽到他們在講說\n733865\t763165\t他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本的這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車那種輕型的托拉庫這樣子可是因為車商的評估當然這是市場經濟嘛他們認為說市場小那不敢進口不願投產所以我是覺得蠻遺憾就是說因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車那其實有的時候是使用的車齡已經非常久那它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型的這種托拉庫是完全不一樣的\n765165\t785392\t我有幾個重點跟建議我是希望說院長可以來考慮一下因為現在農業部是有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助原則上是補助大概是二分之一但是有上限就是貨車每輛大概是36萬 冷藏車是48萬現在的問題是說這些補助是限定在農民團體\n787012\t795145\t比方說這個合作社產銷班等等的常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的產銷在班的班長他要負責去做分配\n796268\t819618\t如果大家都在同一個時間來去採收同一個團體的車是排不太過來的真的要用車的農民他可能排不太到變成就是要用這種可能是用家用的可能是用我們剛才提到的比較老舊式的有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下把補助開放給農民個人申請讓他們能夠有機會去再引進這些這些車種\n822459\t847606\t請部長說明我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的特別是在山區的部分因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的是差很多特別是牛力的部分所以我大概是前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題我也要求我們的農糧署針對車子的這些我們有一定的補助本身要有不同的類別\n848346\t876655\t不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說上市了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話\n878015\t906343\t那個會沒完沒了所以我們現在目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分但是我們會開放在共同集運的部分如果它有需要的時候不限一台我們可以再考量說有不同的方式來處理我們有強硬性說建議要怎麼樣的方式但是就是說不斷都有民眾跟我來講到說像日本的輕型的這種小貨車輕型的Torakus他們就直接甚至有直接講出哪些品牌哪些種類可是都一直沒有辦法引進\n907183\t930271\t所以包含有些可能是跟財政部相關的可能農業部有機會的話我們希望跟財政部來討論一下包含牌照稅的是不是有這種暫緩免徵的這種其他的機制讓農民在採收的季節要在集運的時候他們可以用最好的車種最安全的車種也是最環保的方式拿來去把他們的貨品能夠安全的運下\n932128\t935072\t好的 謝謝委員 我們來研究 請農業部來思考 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝左院長下一位請陳秀寶委員質詢\n","txt":"你好 我們請院長跟農業部部長委員長還有陳部長請備詢\n政委好 院長好 部長好院長我們一直都在呼籲說希望能夠減少放寬老農津貼的排富的門檻因為現在我們的國家第一個是財政相對比較寬裕而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好我們希望說經濟成長率好的部分它能夠包括到我們比較弱勢的族群\n所以陳部長在5月28日的委員會的時候也已經有公開的表態就是支持適度的來去放寬排庫的門檻也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告\n現在距離那個時間點也差不多也過了半年了我想要確認一下目前的進度我在這邊先講一下台灣的人均所得在這近十年它已經成長超過兩倍但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣我們之前有自己在立法院我們自己有提案相關的\n案件我們是希望說至少要把原本的這個數字來提高到把它放寬到800萬那我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少還是有其他的數字請部長說明部長來報告過那我們還在研究請部長說明我跟委員報告就是在\n應該是前幾個月的立法院委員會的時候我就說明其實大家都特別是很多委員期待特別是委員這邊期待隆隆今天本身的排布財管應該是隨著不只是CPIE還有房價指數就是CIV的部分能夠調整\n接下來我們就內部去看了這些CIV的這個值其實它也在過去從100年開始也提升大概40%多所以我們就針對這樣的一個漲幅的比例就是朝政的比例我們也設計了一些新的牌幅的條款我們也同時考慮到就是說四年如果它本身每一年的CPI\n變異動過大的時候那是不是說在這個四年之間有一個機制能夠讓我們及時來處理那這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告然後相關的這些法條現在正在審議那我們預計是希望在下個就是這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來\n非常感謝 這個也是替我們所有的農民來表達這個心聲因為其實整個國家的經濟在成長它隨著這個物價 房價的增長它本身的價值不變但是因為它受到這個影響變成它反而要被排富掉了那變得沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼我想對這一些農民朋友們我認為是不太公平的\n我也跟委員報告就是特別院長特別指示就是說其實農民所購買的房子他其實農民一輩子從事田裡面好不容易買到一個房子他不大可能為了這樣這樣子的一個生活就去賣這個房子所以相對的我們針對排富的這個房屋的所得的部分我們會依照這樣的原則去根據相關的一個模式去計算以後\n做適度的一個提高希望能夠除了適度以外還是希望能夠對農民再好一點因為部長剛剛說的我們往更人性化來思考不要把它當作大家都會循法律上的可能的漏洞來跑人性化而且讓他年限的檢討能夠更彈性主要是為了實際可以加惠更多的農民非常感謝\n也希望這樣子的農民的心聲大家可以聽到接下來就再討論農民津貼老農津貼的這一個部分我們可以知道說我們現在如果說按照我們現在的經濟成長率的話再過一年到兩年我們是會超過人均所得10萬美元\n但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化\n那最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億那這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神\n謝謝委員的建議 事實上我們在做這個排富條款的這些設計的時候我們也同時考慮到這個部分因為每四年根據CPI在一般年的話應該還可以但是特別是在比較動盪的就是說經濟\n經濟的這些外在的因素比較有受影響的時候你的動盪比較大的時候那應該有適度的在四年之間是不是有一個彈性的調整事實上我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子在四年還是維持四年但是在四年之間如果你的CPI達到了某一個比例以上的時候我們就會啟動一個調整的機制我們也是朝這個方向來設計\n所以如果遇到這種物價指數有不符合常態的波動的話能夠做即時的調整對我們大概還是以設計就是在這四年之間可能是兩年大概是兩年的方式如果說它的CPI已經到達一定觸發的門檻的時候我們就會來啟動\n我們希望不是要給多啦我們希望是及時來反映這個物價我們也是朝這個方向來思考報委員這有兩點必須要補充第一個就是我們現在有很多不同身份類別的社會保險的給付制度那我們第一個考慮它的衡平性\n這是第一個再來對農民的現在的給付到今天是比較低的如果大家討論的過程當中我們從農民先來做一個比較實際人性跟彈性的改革社會可以這樣接受的話我們從這裡開始未來是朝向整個橫平性一致性來做考量那可能做這個階段性的調整的進程要這樣把它拉出來\n我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為在我們經濟成長的這個果實他們很多是從資本所得但是這些農民朋友們他們所得的方式不是透過投資股票等等的所以對他們的協助一定最有感所以還是希望院長跟部長能夠來去多來調整接下來要討論一下公定放年這之前在委員會我有質詢過\n之前也提到從院長70多年前台灣推動跟著有期田讓29萬戶的這些電農可以有自己的土地這是一個成功的土地改革可是還有一些我們還沒有解決的問題我希望這個世代我們可以來把它解決掉工地放領這工地放領在宜蘭的大南澳的事辦進化就是要解決這些土地的問題讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權\n想請教一下這個事辦的計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國那我們嘉義的農民有機會來去合法取得土地這個院長不知道有沒有相關的看法那農業部是不是支持這樣的計畫目前我們先行事辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地因為他在\n整個過去的歷程當中他曾經達到相當程度的一個雙方政府跟這個土地使用權人之間的一個默契那他也是一直有租約的存在有耕作的事實那我們先把這個\n現行的這個台拓地部分先把它試用試辦把它完成因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定申請的手續還有包括這個土地的價格怎麼去訂定年限訂在何時都還有相當複雜的問題我們先把它理出一套方式\n這個先完成過去進行到一半的程序之後那用這個經驗在檢討二三階段持續的擴大總之總統一直指示常年來國人自己在使用的土地\n不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的一個緊張的狀態我們說如果讓真正在使用土地他能夠握有這個土地的使用權我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的我們是希望說在一般的農業用地他可以就是參照大南澳的這個模式來辦理放令\n這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下怎麼樣可以把這樣子的案例然後拓展到全國因為我們會按事辦然後按照時程來進行接下來要針對這個自從颱風之後的離農草跟農業保險我想第一線的心聲就是在那次颱風之後很多的農民都說不太想再種了想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣子的訊息跟數據\n我想我們在從丹拉茲颱風以後我們連續多了很多大豪雨還有楊柳颱風一直到花家渣颱風其實我們一直在產地也跟農民去座談然後也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去這樣子繼續從農的一個信心所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險那個是我講我們農業部的責任也是我們農業部要做的\n那農業保險它是不是有辦法做一個有效的一個方案來去把這個尼龍草做緩解\n我跟委員說明就是農業保險本身它要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠涉算相關的保險額度有一些作物它基本上它已經很完整了我們就再推了但是有一些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分但是很可惜過去的這些歷史資料並不完備並不完備的時候如果貿然開的話它的保費會比較貴相關的它獲得理賠的金額會比較少\n那如果貿然開的話反而會讓農民抱怨說他投保了高額的保險繳了高額的保險費可是理賠的時候理賠就非常少所以我們在這個之間我想我們一直要求我們試驗單位能夠更加緊的去建構這樣的一個資料庫那三年前這個陳吉仲前部長他任內有說要研議開發這個茶葉保險是不是我昨天詢問的是農金屬他說現在還是在研議中那研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項的原因\n對 但是茶葉的部分\n有演繹的差不多現在就是說分區因為茶的產區從北到南它有不同的海拔那不同海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細因為太細的話就失掉保險的這些精神可是又不能劃太大因為劃太大的話不同海拔之間本身的遭受到天然災害的話可能不一樣特別是低溫這個部分所以我們正在做這個細部的討論那我們相信這樣的一個討論如果確認了以後我們就會對外公開\n好 謝謝部長\n剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的最後一項是跨族幾個不太一樣的部會但是也是跟農業是直接相關的就是我們每到採收季節的時候我們的阿里山梅山中湖鄉的農友們他們天還沒有亮就是要把這些青菜水果竹筍瓦箱送因為我們的山路是窄坡是陡的如果車身輕扭力大籌據短抓地利用的四輪傳動的貨車是農民會喜歡的車款我常常聽到他們在講說\n他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本的這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車那種輕型的托拉庫這樣子可是因為車商的評估當然這是市場經濟嘛他們認為說市場小那不敢進口不願投產所以我是覺得蠻遺憾就是說因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車那其實有的時候是使用的車齡已經非常久那它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型的這種托拉庫是完全不一樣的\n我有幾個重點跟建議我是希望說院長可以來考慮一下因為現在農業部是有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助原則上是補助大概是二分之一但是有上限就是貨車每輛大概是36萬 冷藏車是48萬現在的問題是說這些補助是限定在農民團體\n比方說這個合作社產銷班等等的常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的產銷在班的班長他要負責去做分配\n如果大家都在同一個時間來去採收同一個團體的車是排不太過來的真的要用車的農民他可能排不太到變成就是要用這種可能是用家用的可能是用我們剛才提到的比較老舊式的有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下把補助開放給農民個人申請讓他們能夠有機會去再引進這些這些車種\n請部長說明我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的特別是在山區的部分因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的是差很多特別是牛力的部分所以我大概是前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題我也要求我們的農糧署針對車子的這些我們有一定的補助本身要有不同的類別\n不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說上市了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話\n那個會沒完沒了所以我們現在目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分但是我們會開放在共同集運的部分如果它有需要的時候不限一台我們可以再考量說有不同的方式來處理我們有強硬性說建議要怎麼樣的方式但是就是說不斷都有民眾跟我來講到說像日本的輕型的這種小貨車輕型的Torakus他們就直接甚至有直接講出哪些品牌哪些種類可是都一直沒有辦法引進\n所以包含有些可能是跟財政部相關的可能農業部有機會的話我們希望跟財政部來討論一下包含牌照稅的是不是有這種暫緩免徵的這種其他的機制讓農民在採收的季節要在集運的時候他們可以用最好的車種最安全的車種也是最環保的方式拿來去把他們的貨品能夠安全的運下\n好的 謝謝委員 我們來研究 請農業部來思考 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝左院長下一位請陳秀寶委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.626 --> 00:18.753\n你好我們請院長跟農業部部長委員長還有陳部長請備詢\n\n00:31.195 --> 00:56.490\n政委好院長好部長好院長我們一直都在呼籲說希望能夠減少放寬老農津貼的排富的門檻因為現在我們的國家第一個是財政相對比較寬裕而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好我們希望說經濟成長率好的部分它能夠包括到我們比較弱勢的族群\n\n00:57.370 --> 01:12.129\n所以陳部長在5月28日的委員會的時候也已經有公開的表態就是支持適度的來去放寬排庫的門檻也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告\n\n01:13.155 --> 01:31.947\n現在距離那個時間點也差不多也過了半年了我想要確認一下目前的進度我在這邊先講一下台灣的人均所得在這近十年它已經成長超過兩倍但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣我們之前有自己在立法院我們自己有提案相關的\n\n01:33.248 --> 01:51.316\n案件我們是希望說至少要把原本的這個數字來提高到把它放寬到800萬那我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少還是有其他的數字請部長說明部長來報告過那我們還在研究請部長說明我跟委員報告就是在\n\n01:52.937 --> 02:09.710\n應該是前幾個月的立法院委員會的時候我就說明其實大家都特別是很多委員期待特別是委員這邊期待隆隆今天本身的排布財管應該是隨著不只是CPIE還有房價指數就是CIV的部分能夠調整\n\n02:10.730 --> 02:32.307\n接下來我們就內部去看了這些CIV的這個值其實它也在過去從100年開始也提升大概40%多所以我們就針對這樣的一個漲幅的比例就是朝政的比例我們也設計了一些新的牌幅的條款我們也同時考慮到就是說四年如果它本身每一年的CPI\n\n02:34.620 --> 02:50.589\n變異動過大的時候那是不是說在這個四年之間有一個機制能夠讓我們及時來處理那這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告然後相關的這些法條現在正在審議那我們預計是希望在下個就是這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來\n\n02:51.408 --> 03:13.768\n非常感謝這個也是替我們所有的農民來表達這個心聲因為其實整個國家的經濟在成長它隨著這個物價房價的增長它本身的價值不變但是因為它受到這個影響變成它反而要被排富掉了那變得沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼我想對這一些農民朋友們我認為是不太公平的\n\n03:14.088 --> 03:37.626\n我也跟委員報告就是特別院長特別指示就是說其實農民所購買的房子他其實農民一輩子從事田裡面好不容易買到一個房子他不大可能為了這樣這樣子的一個生活就去賣這個房子所以相對的我們針對排富的這個房屋的所得的部分我們會依照這樣的原則去根據相關的一個模式去計算以後\n\n03:38.206 --> 04:01.448\n做適度的一個提高希望能夠除了適度以外還是希望能夠對農民再好一點因為部長剛剛說的我們往更人性化來思考不要把它當作大家都會循法律上的可能的漏洞來跑人性化而且讓他年限的檢討能夠更彈性主要是為了實際可以加惠更多的農民非常感謝\n\n04:02.648 --> 04:18.556\n也希望這樣子的農民的心聲大家可以聽到接下來就再討論農民津貼老農津貼的這一個部分我們可以知道說我們現在如果說按照我們現在的經濟成長率的話再過一年到兩年我們是會超過人均所得10萬美元\n\n04:19.056 --> 04:42.251\n但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化\n\n04:42.791 --> 05:07.182\n那最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億那這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神\n\n05:08.536 --> 05:21.147\n謝謝委員的建議事實上我們在做這個排富條款的這些設計的時候我們也同時考慮到這個部分因為每四年根據CPI在一般年的話應該還可以但是特別是在比較動盪的就是說經濟\n\n05:23.609 --> 05:47.164\n經濟的這些外在的因素比較有受影響的時候你的動盪比較大的時候那應該有適度的在四年之間是不是有一個彈性的調整事實上我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子在四年還是維持四年但是在四年之間如果你的CPI達到了某一個比例以上的時候我們就會啟動一個調整的機制我們也是朝這個方向來設計\n\n05:48.806 --> 06:05.603\n所以如果遇到這種物價指數有不符合常態的波動的話能夠做即時的調整對我們大概還是以設計就是在這四年之間可能是兩年大概是兩年的方式如果說它的CPI已經到達一定觸發的門檻的時候我們就會來啟動\n\n06:07.878 --> 06:25.380\n我們希望不是要給多啦我們希望是及時來反映這個物價我們也是朝這個方向來思考報委員這有兩點必須要補充第一個就是我們現在有很多不同身份類別的社會保險的給付制度那我們第一個考慮它的衡平性\n\n06:26.221 --> 06:49.254\n這是第一個再來對農民的現在的給付到今天是比較低的如果大家討論的過程當中我們從農民先來做一個比較實際人性跟彈性的改革社會可以這樣接受的話我們從這裡開始未來是朝向整個橫平性一致性來做考量那可能做這個階段性的調整的進程要這樣把它拉出來\n\n06:49.793 --> 07:13.107\n我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為在我們經濟成長的這個果實他們很多是從資本所得但是這些農民朋友們他們所得的方式不是透過投資股票等等的所以對他們的協助一定最有感所以還是希望院長跟部長能夠來去多來調整接下來要討論一下公定放年這之前在委員會我有質詢過\n\n07:15.228 --> 07:40.856\n之前也提到從院長70多年前台灣推動跟著有期田讓29萬戶的這些電農可以有自己的土地這是一個成功的土地改革可是還有一些我們還沒有解決的問題我希望這個世代我們可以來把它解決掉工地放領這工地放領在宜蘭的大南澳的事辦進化就是要解決這些土地的問題讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權\n\n07:41.696 --> 07:57.811\n想請教一下這個事辦的計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國那我們嘉義的農民有機會來去合法取得土地這個院長不知道有沒有相關的看法那農業部是不是支持這樣的計畫目前我們先行事辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地因為他在\n\n07:58.447 --> 08:13.179\n整個過去的歷程當中他曾經達到相當程度的一個雙方政府跟這個土地使用權人之間的一個默契那他也是一直有租約的存在有耕作的事實那我們先把這個\n\n08:14.780 --> 08:32.220\n現行的這個台拓地部分先把它試用試辦把它完成因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定申請的手續還有包括這個土地的價格怎麼去訂定年限訂在何時都還有相當複雜的問題我們先把它理出一套方式\n\n08:32.961 --> 08:44.837\n這個先完成過去進行到一半的程序之後那用這個經驗在檢討二三階段持續的擴大總之總統一直指示常年來國人自己在使用的土地\n\n08:45.987 --> 09:04.632\n不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的一個緊張的狀態我們說如果讓真正在使用土地他能夠握有這個土地的使用權我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的我們是希望說在一般的農業用地他可以就是參照大南澳的這個模式來辦理放令\n\n09:06.092 --> 09:31.908\n這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下怎麼樣可以把這樣子的案例然後拓展到全國因為我們會按事辦然後按照時程來進行接下來要針對這個自從颱風之後的離農草跟農業保險我想第一線的心聲就是在那次颱風之後很多的農民都說不太想再種了想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣子的訊息跟數據\n\n09:32.881 --> 10:01.413\n我想我們在從丹拉茲颱風以後我們連續多了很多大豪雨還有楊柳颱風一直到花家渣颱風其實我們一直在產地也跟農民去座談然後也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去這樣子繼續從農的一個信心所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險那個是我講我們農業部的責任也是我們農業部要做的\n\n10:02.885 --> 10:09.059\n那農業保險它是不是有辦法做一個有效的一個方案來去把這個尼龍草做緩解\n\n10:10.556 --> 10:38.443\n我跟委員說明就是農業保險本身它要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠涉算相關的保險額度有一些作物它基本上它已經很完整了我們就再推了但是有一些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分但是很可惜過去的這些歷史資料並不完備並不完備的時候如果貿然開的話它的保費會比較貴相關的它獲得理賠的金額會比較少\n\n10:38.883 --> 11:07.660\n那如果貿然開的話反而會讓農民抱怨說他投保了高額的保險繳了高額的保險費可是理賠的時候理賠就非常少所以我們在這個之間我想我們一直要求我們試驗單位能夠更加緊的去建構這樣的一個資料庫那三年前這個陳吉仲前部長他任內有說要研議開發這個茶葉保險是不是我昨天詢問的是農金屬他說現在還是在研議中那研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項的原因\n\n11:08.447 --> 11:09.910\n對但是茶葉的部分\n\n11:11.465 --> 11:39.579\n有演繹的差不多現在就是說分區因為茶的產區從北到南它有不同的海拔那不同海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細因為太細的話就失掉保險的這些精神可是又不能劃太大因為劃太大的話不同海拔之間本身的遭受到天然災害的話可能不一樣特別是低溫這個部分所以我們正在做這個細部的討論那我們相信這樣的一個討論如果確認了以後我們就會對外公開\n\n11:40.441 --> 11:40.641\n好謝謝部長\n\n11:43.772 --> 12:12.170\n剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的最後一項是跨族幾個不太一樣的部會但是也是跟農業是直接相關的就是我們每到採收季節的時候我們的阿里山梅山中湖鄉的農友們他們天還沒有亮就是要把這些青菜水果竹筍瓦箱送因為我們的山路是窄坡是陡的如果車身輕扭力大籌據短抓地利用的四輪傳動的貨車是農民會喜歡的車款我常常聽到他們在講說\n\n12:13.865 --> 12:43.165\n他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本的這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車那種輕型的托拉庫這樣子可是因為車商的評估當然這是市場經濟嘛他們認為說市場小那不敢進口不願投產所以我是覺得蠻遺憾就是說因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車那其實有的時候是使用的車齡已經非常久那它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型的這種托拉庫是完全不一樣的\n\n12:45.165 --> 13:05.392\n我有幾個重點跟建議我是希望說院長可以來考慮一下因為現在農業部是有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助原則上是補助大概是二分之一但是有上限就是貨車每輛大概是36萬冷藏車是48萬現在的問題是說這些補助是限定在農民團體\n\n13:07.012 --> 13:15.145\n比方說這個合作社產銷班等等的常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的產銷在班的班長他要負責去做分配\n\n13:16.268 --> 13:39.618\n如果大家都在同一個時間來去採收同一個團體的車是排不太過來的真的要用車的農民他可能排不太到變成就是要用這種可能是用家用的可能是用我們剛才提到的比較老舊式的有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下把補助開放給農民個人申請讓他們能夠有機會去再引進這些這些車種\n\n13:42.459 --> 14:07.606\n請部長說明我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的特別是在山區的部分因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的是差很多特別是牛力的部分所以我大概是前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題我也要求我們的農糧署針對車子的這些我們有一定的補助本身要有不同的類別\n\n14:08.346 --> 14:36.655\n不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說上市了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話\n\n14:38.015 --> 15:06.343\n那個會沒完沒了所以我們現在目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分但是我們會開放在共同集運的部分如果它有需要的時候不限一台我們可以再考量說有不同的方式來處理我們有強硬性說建議要怎麼樣的方式但是就是說不斷都有民眾跟我來講到說像日本的輕型的這種小貨車輕型的Torakus他們就直接甚至有直接講出哪些品牌哪些種類可是都一直沒有辦法引進\n\n15:07.183 --> 15:30.271\n所以包含有些可能是跟財政部相關的可能農業部有機會的話我們希望跟財政部來討論一下包含牌照稅的是不是有這種暫緩免徵的這種其他的機制讓農民在採收的季節要在集運的時候他們可以用最好的車種最安全的車種也是最環保的方式拿來去把他們的貨品能夠安全的運下\n\n15:32.128 --> 15:35.072\n好的謝謝委員我們來研究請農業部來思考謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝左院長下一位請陳秀寶委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.626,"end":18.753,"text":"你好 我們請院長跟農業部部長委員長還有陳部長請備詢"},{"start":31.195,"end":56.49,"text":"政委好 院長好 部長好院長我們一直都在呼籲說希望能夠減少放寬老農津貼的排富的門檻因為現在我們的國家第一個是財政相對比較寬裕而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好我們希望說經濟成長率好的部分它能夠包括到我們比較弱勢的族群"},{"start":57.37,"end":72.129,"text":"所以陳部長在5月28日的委員會的時候也已經有公開的表態就是支持適度的來去放寬排庫的門檻也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告"},{"start":73.155,"end":91.947,"text":"現在距離那個時間點也差不多也過了半年了我想要確認一下目前的進度我在這邊先講一下台灣的人均所得在這近十年它已經成長超過兩倍但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣我們之前有自己在立法院我們自己有提案相關的"},{"start":93.248,"end":111.316,"text":"案件我們是希望說至少要把原本的這個數字來提高到把它放寬到800萬那我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少還是有其他的數字請部長說明部長來報告過那我們還在研究請部長說明我跟委員報告就是在"},{"start":112.937,"end":129.71,"text":"應該是前幾個月的立法院委員會的時候我就說明其實大家都特別是很多委員期待特別是委員這邊期待隆隆今天本身的排布財管應該是隨著不只是CPIE還有房價指數就是CIV的部分能夠調整"},{"start":130.73,"end":152.307,"text":"接下來我們就內部去看了這些CIV的這個值其實它也在過去從100年開始也提升大概40%多所以我們就針對這樣的一個漲幅的比例就是朝政的比例我們也設計了一些新的牌幅的條款我們也同時考慮到就是說四年如果它本身每一年的CPI"},{"start":154.62,"end":170.589,"text":"變異動過大的時候那是不是說在這個四年之間有一個機制能夠讓我們及時來處理那這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告然後相關的這些法條現在正在審議那我們預計是希望在下個就是這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來"},{"start":171.408,"end":193.768,"text":"非常感謝 這個也是替我們所有的農民來表達這個心聲因為其實整個國家的經濟在成長它隨著這個物價 房價的增長它本身的價值不變但是因為它受到這個影響變成它反而要被排富掉了那變得沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼我想對這一些農民朋友們我認為是不太公平的"},{"start":194.088,"end":217.626,"text":"我也跟委員報告就是特別院長特別指示就是說其實農民所購買的房子他其實農民一輩子從事田裡面好不容易買到一個房子他不大可能為了這樣這樣子的一個生活就去賣這個房子所以相對的我們針對排富的這個房屋的所得的部分我們會依照這樣的原則去根據相關的一個模式去計算以後"},{"start":218.206,"end":241.448,"text":"做適度的一個提高希望能夠除了適度以外還是希望能夠對農民再好一點因為部長剛剛說的我們往更人性化來思考不要把它當作大家都會循法律上的可能的漏洞來跑人性化而且讓他年限的檢討能夠更彈性主要是為了實際可以加惠更多的農民非常感謝"},{"start":242.648,"end":258.556,"text":"也希望這樣子的農民的心聲大家可以聽到接下來就再討論農民津貼老農津貼的這一個部分我們可以知道說我們現在如果說按照我們現在的經濟成長率的話再過一年到兩年我們是會超過人均所得10萬美元"},{"start":259.056,"end":282.251,"text":"但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化"},{"start":282.791,"end":307.182,"text":"那最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億那這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神"},{"start":308.536,"end":321.147,"text":"謝謝委員的建議 事實上我們在做這個排富條款的這些設計的時候我們也同時考慮到這個部分因為每四年根據CPI在一般年的話應該還可以但是特別是在比較動盪的就是說經濟"},{"start":323.609,"end":347.164,"text":"經濟的這些外在的因素比較有受影響的時候你的動盪比較大的時候那應該有適度的在四年之間是不是有一個彈性的調整事實上我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子在四年還是維持四年但是在四年之間如果你的CPI達到了某一個比例以上的時候我們就會啟動一個調整的機制我們也是朝這個方向來設計"},{"start":348.806,"end":365.603,"text":"所以如果遇到這種物價指數有不符合常態的波動的話能夠做即時的調整對我們大概還是以設計就是在這四年之間可能是兩年大概是兩年的方式如果說它的CPI已經到達一定觸發的門檻的時候我們就會來啟動"},{"start":367.878,"end":385.38,"text":"我們希望不是要給多啦我們希望是及時來反映這個物價我們也是朝這個方向來思考報委員這有兩點必須要補充第一個就是我們現在有很多不同身份類別的社會保險的給付制度那我們第一個考慮它的衡平性"},{"start":386.221,"end":409.254,"text":"這是第一個再來對農民的現在的給付到今天是比較低的如果大家討論的過程當中我們從農民先來做一個比較實際人性跟彈性的改革社會可以這樣接受的話我們從這裡開始未來是朝向整個橫平性一致性來做考量那可能做這個階段性的調整的進程要這樣把它拉出來"},{"start":409.793,"end":433.107,"text":"我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為在我們經濟成長的這個果實他們很多是從資本所得但是這些農民朋友們他們所得的方式不是透過投資股票等等的所以對他們的協助一定最有感所以還是希望院長跟部長能夠來去多來調整接下來要討論一下公定放年這之前在委員會我有質詢過"},{"start":435.228,"end":460.856,"text":"之前也提到從院長70多年前台灣推動跟著有期田讓29萬戶的這些電農可以有自己的土地這是一個成功的土地改革可是還有一些我們還沒有解決的問題我希望這個世代我們可以來把它解決掉工地放領這工地放領在宜蘭的大南澳的事辦進化就是要解決這些土地的問題讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權"},{"start":461.696,"end":477.811,"text":"想請教一下這個事辦的計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國那我們嘉義的農民有機會來去合法取得土地這個院長不知道有沒有相關的看法那農業部是不是支持這樣的計畫目前我們先行事辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地因為他在"},{"start":478.447,"end":493.179,"text":"整個過去的歷程當中他曾經達到相當程度的一個雙方政府跟這個土地使用權人之間的一個默契那他也是一直有租約的存在有耕作的事實那我們先把這個"},{"start":494.78,"end":512.22,"text":"現行的這個台拓地部分先把它試用試辦把它完成因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定申請的手續還有包括這個土地的價格怎麼去訂定年限訂在何時都還有相當複雜的問題我們先把它理出一套方式"},{"start":512.961,"end":524.837,"text":"這個先完成過去進行到一半的程序之後那用這個經驗在檢討二三階段持續的擴大總之總統一直指示常年來國人自己在使用的土地"},{"start":525.987,"end":544.632,"text":"不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的一個緊張的狀態我們說如果讓真正在使用土地他能夠握有這個土地的使用權我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的我們是希望說在一般的農業用地他可以就是參照大南澳的這個模式來辦理放令"},{"start":546.092,"end":571.908,"text":"這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下怎麼樣可以把這樣子的案例然後拓展到全國因為我們會按事辦然後按照時程來進行接下來要針對這個自從颱風之後的離農草跟農業保險我想第一線的心聲就是在那次颱風之後很多的農民都說不太想再種了想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣子的訊息跟數據"},{"start":572.881,"end":601.413,"text":"我想我們在從丹拉茲颱風以後我們連續多了很多大豪雨還有楊柳颱風一直到花家渣颱風其實我們一直在產地也跟農民去座談然後也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去這樣子繼續從農的一個信心所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險那個是我講我們農業部的責任也是我們農業部要做的"},{"start":602.885,"end":609.059,"text":"那農業保險它是不是有辦法做一個有效的一個方案來去把這個尼龍草做緩解"},{"start":610.556,"end":638.443,"text":"我跟委員說明就是農業保險本身它要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠涉算相關的保險額度有一些作物它基本上它已經很完整了我們就再推了但是有一些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分但是很可惜過去的這些歷史資料並不完備並不完備的時候如果貿然開的話它的保費會比較貴相關的它獲得理賠的金額會比較少"},{"start":638.883,"end":667.66,"text":"那如果貿然開的話反而會讓農民抱怨說他投保了高額的保險繳了高額的保險費可是理賠的時候理賠就非常少所以我們在這個之間我想我們一直要求我們試驗單位能夠更加緊的去建構這樣的一個資料庫那三年前這個陳吉仲前部長他任內有說要研議開發這個茶葉保險是不是我昨天詢問的是農金屬他說現在還是在研議中那研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項的原因"},{"start":668.447,"end":669.91,"text":"對 但是茶葉的部分"},{"start":671.465,"end":699.579,"text":"有演繹的差不多現在就是說分區因為茶的產區從北到南它有不同的海拔那不同海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細因為太細的話就失掉保險的這些精神可是又不能劃太大因為劃太大的話不同海拔之間本身的遭受到天然災害的話可能不一樣特別是低溫這個部分所以我們正在做這個細部的討論那我們相信這樣的一個討論如果確認了以後我們就會對外公開"},{"start":700.441,"end":700.641,"text":"好 謝謝部長"},{"start":703.772,"end":732.17,"text":"剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的最後一項是跨族幾個不太一樣的部會但是也是跟農業是直接相關的就是我們每到採收季節的時候我們的阿里山梅山中湖鄉的農友們他們天還沒有亮就是要把這些青菜水果竹筍瓦箱送因為我們的山路是窄坡是陡的如果車身輕扭力大籌據短抓地利用的四輪傳動的貨車是農民會喜歡的車款我常常聽到他們在講說"},{"start":733.865,"end":763.165,"text":"他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本的這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車那種輕型的托拉庫這樣子可是因為車商的評估當然這是市場經濟嘛他們認為說市場小那不敢進口不願投產所以我是覺得蠻遺憾就是說因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車那其實有的時候是使用的車齡已經非常久那它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型的這種托拉庫是完全不一樣的"},{"start":765.165,"end":785.392,"text":"我有幾個重點跟建議我是希望說院長可以來考慮一下因為現在農業部是有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助原則上是補助大概是二分之一但是有上限就是貨車每輛大概是36萬 冷藏車是48萬現在的問題是說這些補助是限定在農民團體"},{"start":787.012,"end":795.145,"text":"比方說這個合作社產銷班等等的常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的產銷在班的班長他要負責去做分配"},{"start":796.268,"end":819.618,"text":"如果大家都在同一個時間來去採收同一個團體的車是排不太過來的真的要用車的農民他可能排不太到變成就是要用這種可能是用家用的可能是用我們剛才提到的比較老舊式的有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下把補助開放給農民個人申請讓他們能夠有機會去再引進這些這些車種"},{"start":822.459,"end":847.606,"text":"請部長說明我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的特別是在山區的部分因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的是差很多特別是牛力的部分所以我大概是前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題我也要求我們的農糧署針對車子的這些我們有一定的補助本身要有不同的類別"},{"start":848.346,"end":876.655,"text":"不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說上市了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話"},{"start":878.015,"end":906.343,"text":"那個會沒完沒了所以我們現在目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分但是我們會開放在共同集運的部分如果它有需要的時候不限一台我們可以再考量說有不同的方式來處理我們有強硬性說建議要怎麼樣的方式但是就是說不斷都有民眾跟我來講到說像日本的輕型的這種小貨車輕型的Torakus他們就直接甚至有直接講出哪些品牌哪些種類可是都一直沒有辦法引進"},{"start":907.183,"end":930.271,"text":"所以包含有些可能是跟財政部相關的可能農業部有機會的話我們希望跟財政部來討論一下包含牌照稅的是不是有這種暫緩免徵的這種其他的機制讓農民在採收的季節要在集運的時候他們可以用最好的車種最安全的車種也是最環保的方式拿來去把他們的貨品能夠安全的運下"},{"start":932.128,"end":935.072,"text":"好的 謝謝委員 我們來研究 請農業部來思考 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝左院長下一位請陳秀寶委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":224,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（16時1分）你好，請院長跟農業部部長。"],["主席：卓院長還有陳部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：院長好、部長好。院長，我們一直都在呼籲，希望能夠放寬老農津貼的排富門檻，因為現在我們國家的財政相對比較寬裕，而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好，我們希望經濟成長率好的部分能夠包括到比較弱勢的族群，所以陳部長在5月28日委員會的時候也已經有公開表態，支持適度放寬排富的門檻，也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告，現在距離那個時間點也差不多過了半年了，我想要確認一下目前的進度。我在這邊先講一下，臺灣的人均所得在近十年已經成長超過兩倍，但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣，之前在立法院我們有提相關的案件，我們希望至少要把原本的數字放寬到800萬，我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少？還是有其他的數字？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明，部長來報告過，我們還在研究，請部長說明這部分。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，應該是前幾個月在立法院的委員會時我就說明，其實很多委員都期待，特別是委員這邊期待老農津貼本身的排富條款應該是隨著……不只是CPI而已，還有房價指數，就是CLV的部分能夠調整，接下來我們內部就去看了這些CLV的值，其實它從過去100年開始也提升了大概百分之四十多，所以針對這樣的一個漲幅比例、調升比例，我們也設計了一些新的排富條款，我們也同時考慮到4年間如果每一年的CPI異動過大的時候，那在這4年之間是不是有一個機制能夠讓我們及時處理，這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告，然後這些相關的法條現在正在審議，我們預計、希望這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來。"],["陳委員冠廷：非常感謝，也是替我們所有的農民來表達心聲，因為整個國家經濟在成長，隨著物價、房價的增長，其本身的價值不變，但是因為他受到這個影響，變成他要被排富掉了、沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼，我想對這一些農民朋友們是不太公平的……"],["陳部長駿季：我也跟委員報告，院長也有特別指示，其實農民所購買的房子，農民一輩子務農，好不容易買到一個房子，他不太可能為了這樣子的生活就去賣這個房子，所以相對的，針對排富的房屋所得部分，我們會依照這樣的原則，根據相關的一個模式去計算之後做適度的提高。"],["陳委員冠廷：希望除了適度以外，還是希望能夠對農民再好一點。"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長剛剛所說的，我們往更人性化來思考，不要把它當作大家都會循法律上可能的漏洞來做，要人性化，而且讓年限的檢討能夠更彈性，主要是為了實際可以嘉惠更多的農民。"],["陳委員冠廷：非常感謝，也希望農民的心聲大家可以聽到。","接下來再討論老農津貼的部分，我們可以知道，如果按照現在的經濟成長率，再過一年到兩年，我們是會超過人均所得4萬美元，但人均所得4萬美元不代表受薪階級也相對的提升。同樣的，在老農的部分，他的津貼我想我們也要配合物價去做一些調整，過去老農津貼大概是4年做一次調整，可是我們看到現在全球的經濟變化是非常快的，物價的變化有些時候也會很快速地再去變化。最近一次的調整，我想是在今年1月，那時候是從7,550提高到八千多……"],["陳部長駿季：8,110。"],["陳委員冠廷：這個4年的調整週期在低通膨的時候問題不大，但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下，可能已經明顯的不合理。這部分想請教一下部長，有沒有辦法改為2年調整一次？這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的建議，事實上我們在做排富條款設計的時候也同時考量到這個部分，因為每4年根據CPI，在一般年的話，應該還可以；但特別是在比較動盪時，就是經濟外在因素比較有受影響的時候，在動盪比較大的時候，是不是應該適度地在4年之間有一個彈性的調整？事實上，我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子，雖然還是維持4年，但是在4年之間如果CPI達到某一個比例以上時就會啟動一個調整機制，我們也是朝這個方向來設計。"],["陳委員冠廷：如果遇到物價指數有……"],["陳部長駿季：波動比較大的時候。"],["陳委員冠廷：不符合常態波動的話，能夠做及時的調整？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們大概還是設計在這4年之間，大概是2年的方式，如果CPI已經到達觸發門檻的時候，我們就會來啟動。"],["陳委員冠廷：不是要給多，我們是希望及時來反映物價。"],["陳部長駿季：了解，我們也是朝這個方向來思考。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這有兩點必須要補充，第一個，我們現在有很多不同身分類別的社會保險給付制度，我們首先考慮他的衡平性，這是第一個。再來，對農民現在的給付，到今天是比較低的，如果在大家討論的過程當中，我們從農民先來做一個比較實際、人性跟彈性的改革，社會可以接受的話，我們從這裡開始，未來是朝向整個衡平性、一致性來做考量，可能做這個階段性調整的進程要先把它拉出來。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為，在我們經濟成長的果實中，有很多是從資本所得，但是這些農民朋友們的所得方式不是透過投資股票等等，所以對他們的協助一定最有感，因此還是希望院長跟部長能夠多去調整。","接下來要討論一下公地放領，這之前在委員會我有質詢過，之前也提到。院長，七十多年前臺灣推動耕者有其田，讓29萬戶的佃農可以有自己的土地，這是一個成功的土地改革，可是還有一些還沒有解決的問題，我希望這個世代我們可以把它解決掉，例如公地放領。公地放領在宜蘭大南澳的試辦計劃就是要解決這些土地的問題，讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權。想請教一下，這個試辦計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國？讓嘉義的農民也有機會合法取得土地？院長，不知道有沒有相關的看法？農業部是不是支持這樣的計畫？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我們先行試辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地，因為在過去的歷程當中，它曾經達到相當程度政府跟土地使用權人之間的默契，它也是一直有租約的存在、有耕作的事實，我們先把現行的台拓地部分試辦完成，因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定、申請的手續，還包括土地的價格怎麼去訂定、年限訂在何時，這都還有相當複雜的問題，我們先把它釐出一套方式，這個先進行到一半的程序之後，用這個經驗再檢討二、三階段持續的擴大。總之，總統一直指示，長年來國人自己在使用的土地不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的緊張狀態。"],["陳委員冠廷：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望讓真正在使用土地的人能夠握有這個土地的所有權，我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們是希望一般的農業用地可以參照大南澳的模式來辦理放領，這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下，看怎麼樣可以把這樣的案例拓展到全國。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會試辦，然後按照時程來進行。"],["陳委員冠廷：接下來要針對自從颱風之後的離農潮跟農業保險來討論。我想第一線的心聲，就是在丹娜絲颱風之後，很多的農民都說不太想再種了，想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣的訊息跟數據？"],["陳部長駿季：我們從丹娜絲颱風以後，連續有很多的大豪雨，還有楊柳颱風，一直到樺加沙颱風。其實我們一直在產地跟農民座談，也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響，這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去繼續從農的信心，所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險是我們農業部的責任、也是我們農業部要做的。"],["陳委員冠廷：農業保險是不是有辦法做一個有效的方案來緩解離農潮？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，農業保險本身要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠設算相關的保險額度，有些作物基本上已經很完整了，我們已經在推了；但是很可惜，有些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分，過去的這些歷史資料並不完備，不完備的時候如果貿然開的話，他的保費會比較貴，相對地他獲得理賠的金額會比較少。如果貿然開的話，反而會讓農民抱怨他投保了高額的保險、繳了這麼高額的保險費，可是理賠的非常少，所以我們在這之間一直要求我們的試驗單位能夠更加緊地去建構這樣的一個資料庫。"],["陳委員冠廷：3年前陳吉仲前部長任內有說要研議開發茶葉保險，我昨天詢問農金署，他說現在還在研議中，研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項原因？"],["陳部長駿季：對，但是茶葉的部分我們研議的差不多了，現在就是要分區啦，因為茶的產區從北到南有不同的海拔，不同的海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細，因為太細的話就失掉保險的精神；可是又不能劃太大，因為劃太大的話，不同海拔之間本身遭受到的天然災害可能不一樣，特別是低溫這個部分。所以我們正在做細部的討論，這樣的討論如果確認了以後，我們就會對外公開。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長。","剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的，最後一項是跨足幾個不太一樣的部會，但也是跟農業直接相關的，就是每到採收季節的時候，我們阿里山、梅山、中埔鄉的農友們天還沒有亮就要把這些青菜、水果、竹筍往下送，因為我們的山路是窄坡、是陡的，所以車身輕、扭力大、軸距短、抓地力好的四輪傳動貨車是農民會喜歡的車款。我常常聽到他們講說，他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車，那種輕型的「拖拉庫」，可是因為車商的評估，當然這是市場經濟，他們認為市場小，所以不敢進口不願投產。我是覺得滿遺憾的，因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車，其實有些車齡已經非常久，它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型「拖拉庫」是完全不一樣的。","我有幾個重點跟建議，希望院長可以考慮一下，現在農業部有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助，原則上是補助大概二分之一，但是有上限，就是貨車每輛大概是36萬、冷藏車是48萬。現在的問題是，這些補助是限定在農民團體，比方說合作社、產銷班等等，常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的，產銷班的班長變成要負責去做分配。如果大家都在同一個時間採收，那同一個團體的車是排不太過來的，真的要用車的農民可能排不太到，變成可能就要用家用的、可能是用我剛才提到的比較老舊式的。有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下，把補助開放給農民個人申請，讓他們能夠有機會去引進這些車種？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個就是你剛才講的，特別是在山區的，因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的差很多，特別是扭力的部分。所以我大概在前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題，我也要求我們的農糧署，針對車子我們有一定的補助，本身要有不同的類別、不能是一致性的，特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子。第二個您所提到的，因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主，當初考量到如果給農民，基本上沒有辦法做控管，因為我們是希望透過這樣運輸車的補助，讓大家有共同集運的概念，是用共同集運的概念去做補助；如果喪失了共同集運而補助給個別的農民的話，那個會沒完沒了。所以我們目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分，但是我們會開放在共同集運，如果他有需要的時候不限一臺，我們可以再考量有不同的方式來處理。"],["陳委員冠廷：我沒有強硬性建議要怎麼樣的方式，但就是不斷都有民眾來跟我講，像日本輕型的這種小貨車、輕型的「拖拉庫」，甚至他們直接講哪些品牌、哪些種類，可是都一直沒有辦法引進。有些可能是跟財政部相關的，農業部有機會的話，我們希望跟財政部來討論一下，包含牌照稅是不是有這種暫緩免徵的其他機制，讓農民在採收的季節、在集運的時候，讓他們可以用最好的車種、最安全的車種、也是最環保的方式把貨品安全的運下來。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員，我們來研究，請農業部來思考，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請陳秀寳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-7","speakers":["江啟臣","張智倫","盧縣一","黃健豪","麥玉珍","黃仁","高金素梅","黃珊珊","吳思瑤","李坤城","沈伯洋","莊瑞雄","王美惠","羅美玲","陳永康","郭國文","林德福","陳冠廷","陳秀寳","李彥秀","吳琪銘"],"page_start":135,"meetingDate":["2025-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00004","1148701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1148701_00009"}}}