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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 1016.376, \"end\": 1016.536, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 1016.536, \"end\": 1016.816, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1016.816, \"end\": 1016.976, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1016.976, \"end\": 1017.196, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 1017.196, \"end\": 1017.316, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1017.316, \"end\": 1017.396, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1017.396, \"end\": 1017.416, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 1017.416, \"end\": 1017.436, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,542 --> 00:00:08,452\n謝謝主席我想本市上週在本委會\n\n2\n00:00:11,089 --> 00:00:35,864\n就特別強調台中這個非洲豬瘟的事件中央各單位要強烈的介入不要再讓地方這種叫胡搞瞎搞吧這個狀況一直發生因為醫院哪有清消兩次然後還會驗出陽性嘛再來就最終還拜託了國軍再度這個化學兵進入清消\n\n3\n00:00:36,991 --> 00:00:50,638\n那台中市怎麼又馬上派人又再去傾銷一次這很奇怪啦齁我想是說從整個這個事件的一個過程裡面傾銷應變來自己處理整個畫面呈現在國連的面前會覺得是很亂毫無彰化的在應變這樣的事情那我覺得這樣齁坦白講這一種\n\n4\n00:01:06,892 --> 00:01:26,838\n這種處理方式真的會害死這些養豬場這些養豬戶然後甚至會影響到國人吃這個溫體豬肉然後以系列的所有的攤商都會受到很嚴重的這樣的一個傷害跟挑戰所以我坦白講我是真的要在這邊做強力的一個譴責部長你請起來\n\n5\n00:01:31,153 --> 00:01:55,323\n你在11月1號有到雲林出席雲林就是全國養豬最大最大最大宗的縣市那你在參加這個環保這個群林志工會的時候你有特別接受媒體的採訪你是希望說朝你中長期方案把廢棄物的觀念轉化為資源但是我要在這邊提醒部長這眼下的廚餘流向已經出了很大的問題\n\n6\n00:01:56,763 --> 00:02:16,381\n已經來不及等你以後還要轉會為能了真的會趕不上來啦從應變中心調查報告中初步可以了解疫情僅在台中的武器廠然後病毒恐來自為弱食增足的廚餘\n\n7\n00:02:17,979 --> 00:02:35,429\n我現在每一個細節我都講得很清楚了請部長就希望我的這樣的一個質詢可以提醒一些事情但這個處理到底是從哪邊來目前沒有比較明確的方向照這個表部長可以看一下無期清潔隊的處理是陰性\n\n8\n00:02:36,678 --> 00:02:50,832\n無期清潔隊的處理是陰性所以初步可以排除來自清潔隊但載運處理的車輛上有驗到非洲豬瘟陽性反應依照台中市政府的說法處理飆收後是由業者自行派遮載運\n\n9\n00:02:52,352 --> 00:03:19,500\n也就是說這台車到底接觸到到哪有非洲豬瘟的病毒應該是這次查明這事件的重中之重對不對不過到現在好像要查起來應該是很費工了很費工不過還是要查還是要查第一個是清潔隊無期清潔隊的處理是陰性的但是載運的這台車輛是驗到有非洲豬瘟呈陽性那到底是不是處理出問題\n\n10\n00:03:23,499 --> 00:03:37,397\n那到底是不是廚餘出問題這是一件事情嘛那第二件事情在整個調查報告中竟然還多出一個西養豬場然後浙江無竊養豬場就是這個暗場竟然還可以違規分讓多餘的廚餘給西養豬場使用\n\n11\n00:03:43,329 --> 00:03:53,732\n這是什麼樣的狀況啦他還要用到中間給西廠去用最重要的喔西養豬場沒有標授無期清潔隊的廚餘卻能從無期清潔隊再去載廚餘回來養豬這個表格很清楚嘛對不對這問題真的實在是\n\n12\n00:04:09,261 --> 00:04:34,725\n不要說養豬戶啦現在連消費者都看的都會物理看的話也都非常驚訝說怎麼有這樣的一個一個方向軸板的那不叫管理啊那等於是沒有在管理嘛應該是這麼說嘛那現在這台車這台車到底它的整個路徑有沒有辦法去追查出來\n\n13\n00:04:36,329 --> 00:05:01,514\n這台有驗到陽性反應的這台車有沒有辦法去了解它的路徑怎麼樣有沒有從這個地方去追查下去部長就你的掌握跟了解我所知道是這個載送的目前是沒有GPS啦所以等於是透過包含了各種的車級資料還有照相機等等我們可以提供的包含了這個處理的去向各種的資料我們都已經給檢調單位去處理了\n\n14\n00:05:03,934 --> 00:05:30,901\n所以這個至於說這個東西因為我沒有參與在這個疫調的這個過程所以我不清楚但是其實可能是的確是很困難的但是我們這邊是負責這個真主那的確那家是沒有落實真主的然後也跟委員報告委員剛才說的西洋豬場這個的確是違規的從這個我們的廚餘一家就是簽約就是那家不能再去分送給別人這個也是完全是違規可以會受罰的他會受法我知道了齁但是\n\n15\n00:05:31,485 --> 00:05:59,270\n但是他會受啊但是為什麼這一個他沒有去標這個武器清潔隊的廚餘這個西洋豬場還可以跑到這個武器清潔隊去載送這個廚餘那這兩照可以接受到什麼處罰一個是工部門的清潔隊一個是西洋豬場對這個會依照我們的廢清法不知道第幾條有一條他們昨天我們昨天有匯報這個事情是完全會開罰的\n\n16\n00:06:01,481 --> 00:06:20,467\n請上來說明一下好不好針對公部門還有針對這個西洋豬場怎麼採訪怎麼處理他這個因為是屬於飼料的轉移大概是用飼料管理法跟這個動物疾病防治條例來做處分\n\n17\n00:06:21,563 --> 00:06:40,166\n對怎麼處分嘛一照這兩個條例對公部門清潔隊怎麼處理對這個西洋署長怎麼處理請署長是不是可以說明清楚一點我們想了解一下因為這個不說明清楚我想現在是禁運然後禁止廚餘\n\n18\n00:06:53,024 --> 00:07:08,207\n包委員這個會用洞床條例去拆滑然後就是目前的狀況是會議給農業部用洞床條例跟飼料管理法對怎麼處罰嘛依照這兩個條例要怎麼處罰嘛是滑緩對滑緩對清潔隊公部門怎麼處理對西洋組長怎麼處理\n\n19\n00:07:15,473 --> 00:07:31,280\n兩邊應該都可以拆滑怎麼拆滑啦我問第三次了啊你們怎麼到現在沒辦法答覆我這麼簡單明確法律有明確性嘛清潔隊清潔隊怎麼可以讓沒有來飆售這個廚餘的西營養豬場來載運這個廚餘公部門怎麼可以公然犯罪違規違法那我們怎麼處理吧\n\n20\n00:07:44,943 --> 00:08:09,993\n那西洋豬場怎麼可以去沒有標誌的時候可以直接到工部門的清潔隊去載送載運這一個廚餘他又應該說到什麼廚華廚華嘛你們怎麼沒有辦法第一時間答覆我答覆委員會好包委員這個我們是不是農業部這邊來回答回應這個農業部市市長是不是黃市\n\n21\n00:08:15,595 --> 00:08:16,216\n有關於廚餘的部分的話\n\n22\n00:08:34,575 --> 00:08:58,536\n這個廚餘工部門沒有標授給西洋豬場西洋豬場怎麼可以去清潔隊載送載運這個廚餘那清潔隊要負起什麼樣責任那這個去載送西洋豬場要接受到什麼樣的才華主席你要多給我時間我已經問了三分鐘到五分鐘他們都沒有辦法答覆我這樣的問題\n\n23\n00:09:01,585 --> 00:09:28,826\n抱歉啦好不好這太煩了你們這個太離譜了你們不管地方不管中央我覺得這叫做應變這個叫應變我就問這個題目到現在沒辦法答覆所以他們才敢肆無淡計的持續的違法到這種程度嘛\n\n24\n00:09:30,854 --> 00:09:45,574\n所以等於就是沒有管理嘛就是沒有管理嘛就不只你想要中長期的轉匯維能基本上如果照這樣的情況下去不可能啦可以答覆我了嗎\n\n25\n00:09:48,636 --> 00:10:12,084\n各位委員報告好那如果這個部分的話我們是認為應該是由這個動船條例裡面的這個因為它造成的這個疫情的這樣的一個部分但是因為動船條例裡面它的這個規定的這個項目比較多所以要引用哪一個條例的罰則的部分我們還需要再來研議市長它造成疫情\n\n26\n00:10:13,177 --> 00:10:41,422\n是一件事情他沒有造成疫情平常遇到這種事情你們就怎麼管理你們就怎麼處理嘛如果平常遇到這樣的事情的話應該是依照這個廢新法還有這個飼料法的這個部分來處理因為他不是在這個合約廠商裡面飼料法不是你們管的嗎我們的罰則是3到300萬的這個3到300萬是罰台中武器清潔隊還是罰西洋豬場\n\n27\n00:10:43,507 --> 00:11:04,217\n行為人行為人兩個都是行為人啊沒有合約怎麼清潔隊敢把廚藝讓他們來載運就公務人員的部分應該是有公務人員的這個職權的這個部分來做裁處怎麼裁處嘛怎麼裁處嘛\n\n28\n00:11:07,383 --> 00:11:36,590\n我現在是指疫情尚未爆發之前持續的有這種事情發生公部門必須負起什麼責任西洋豬場必須接受什麼樣的才華發生疫情之後這兩兆要受到懲罰程度絕對有層次上的不一樣我們現在講前面再來講後面你們連前面都講不清楚你要怎麼去督導地方啊\n\n29\n00:11:37,759 --> 00:12:06,202\n你要怎麼去管理啊我後面還有很多題目要問咧我把這題你到現在不知道答不完你在應變什麼啊應變中心不是跨部會所有重要的單位都必須集結然後用最快速的方法去做因應然後該怎麼樣處理該怎麼處罰第一個時間因為已經碰到疫情發生了\n\n30\n00:12:11,468 --> 00:12:37,153\n難道進宅進運進廚餘的過程裡面你中文字母跟地文字母在公秀阿其實我們昨天有在討論這個事情啦是不是說明一下因為我們昨天有特別因為我副組長他過去就在處理廚餘他比較清楚那跟委員報告齁這一個是因為他跟原來的申請的事項不同而\n\n31\n00:12:38,801 --> 00:12:58,295\n現在檢察官也在偵辦可能朝向這個檢察官處理是檢察官在處理在行政的處罰上我們什麼樣的作為嘛就這樣而已啊我問的問題不簡單嗎然後你可以分疫情前跟疫情後我都可以接受你就明確的表達說明清楚嘛\n\n32\n00:12:59,060 --> 00:13:10,656\n跟委員報告那非法載運儲餘的罰則會因為這個不同的樣態然後觸犯的這個條例可能有廢清法還有洞傳法還有飼料管理法那包括了如果是一般的違規的話那會\n\n33\n00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:36,748\n夾帶廚餘的這樣的垃圾的樣態會罰到一千二到六千元的罰則但是像這個樣態的話是非法載運廚餘給禁止的這個就是他不是經合格的這個養豬場的話那我們依據這個動產條例那處新台幣五萬以上一百萬以下的罰款那累犯的話會加計罰則的這個部分那另外\n\n34\n00:13:37,188 --> 00:14:03,588\n因為他未經許可那處理廢棄物包括廚餘那可以依照廢棄法來處以新台幣六萬以上三百萬以下的罰款那其他的這個部分那如果有違反了這個飼料管理法的這個部分那我們會依照飼料管理法的部分處以三萬到三百萬以下的罰款大概是目前我們能夠去查照他的這個相關的行為規則所必須要負的責任是這樣子\n\n35\n00:14:04,729 --> 00:14:30,991\n市長還有部長我希望你們把明確我剛剛提出來這個點疫情前疫情後針對武器清潔隊針對西洋豬場該怎麼處罰該怎麼樣的處理方式用書面資料給我們委員會所有委員做參考這第一件事情也公告全國啦好不好但是我要提醒我為什麼要講這一點來講我後面的事情今天趙委排的這個事情非常重要\n\n36\n00:14:31,929 --> 00:14:56,939\n有利可圖啦大家都有同盟機會啦連這個廚餘都可以做到這樣的程度你看那些匯圖他會怎麼處理海洋污染防治法你只要把廚餘請到到海洋怎麼划你知道嗎不能說他們可以從新台幣30萬以上3000萬以下\n\n37\n00:15:00,165 --> 00:15:29,108\n好廚餘到屏東疫藥廠復納廠不曉得依照廢清法你要怎麼處理地方環保局立即有通報東港警分局來做處理嘛對不對當場的查扣然後也移送這個環外公務然後用這個廢法處理及不實申報廢棄物等罪嫌移送屏東地檢署偵辦最高可以怎麼樣依法廢清法六千到三百萬六千到三百萬\n\n38\n00:15:30,666 --> 00:15:54,477\n除以倒在海洋依照海洋污染防治法最高可以划到三千萬我們到現在還在六千到三百萬依照廢清法第四十六條不行嗎如果依照廢清法第四十六條可以的話最高到多少你還在六千到三百萬最高到一千五百萬對除以\n\n39\n00:15:57,576 --> 00:16:16,455\n丟在海洋最高可以花三千萬丟在你陸地如果照部長講的最高是三百萬如果照署長講的一飛行環四十六條一千五百萬怎麼差這麼多怎麼差這麼多所以這次招委要排這個修滑你對滑款的部分要不要重新審視\n\n40\n00:16:19,329 --> 00:16:31,746\n不能用這樣的差異吧差太大了吧如果以300跟3000差十倍如果1500到3000是差兩倍不對吧所以很多人唯利可圖就會跟你拼啦就會逃亡氣會嘛\n\n41\n00:16:33,038 --> 00:16:57,436\n拜託我今天的主題是要回到這個地方來那我也希望非洲事務的事情我剛剛有特別提到如果這個點不是在儲雨是在這一台載運車到現在還沒有辦法很詳細的把這台車的路徑去調查出來我覺得不管中央跟地方到時候都會監察院見好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5542\t8452\t謝謝主席我想本市上週在本委會\n11089\t35864\t就特別強調台中這個非洲豬瘟的事件中央各單位要強烈的介入不要再讓地方這種叫胡搞瞎搞吧這個狀況一直發生因為醫院哪有清消兩次然後還會驗出陽性嘛再來就最終還拜託了國軍再度這個化學兵進入清消\n36991\t50638\t那台中市怎麼又馬上派人又再去傾銷一次這很奇怪啦齁我想是說從整個這個事件的一個過程裡面傾銷應變來自己處理整個畫面呈現在國連的面前會覺得是很亂毫無彰化的在應變這樣的事情那我覺得這樣齁 坦白講這一種\n66892\t86838\t這種處理方式真的會害死這些養豬場這些養豬戶然後甚至會影響到國人吃這個溫體豬肉然後以系列的所有的攤商都會受到很嚴重的這樣的一個傷害跟挑戰所以我坦白講我是真的要在這邊做強力的一個譴責部長你請起來\n91153\t115323\t你在11月1號有到雲林出席雲林就是全國養豬最大最大最大宗的縣市那你在參加這個環保這個群林志工會的時候你有特別接受媒體的採訪你是希望說朝你中長期方案把廢棄物的觀念轉化為資源但是我要在這邊提醒部長這眼下的廚餘流向已經出了很大的問題\n116763\t136381\t已經來不及等你以後還要轉會為能了真的會趕不上來啦從應變中心調查報告中初步可以了解疫情僅在台中的武器廠然後病毒恐來自為弱食增足的廚餘\n137979\t155429\t我現在每一個細節我都講得很清楚了請部長就希望我的這樣的一個質詢可以提醒一些事情但這個處理到底是從哪邊來目前沒有比較明確的方向照這個表 部長可以看一下無期清潔隊的處理是陰性\n156678\t170832\t無期清潔隊的處理是陰性所以初步可以排除來自清潔隊但載運處理的車輛上有驗到非洲豬瘟陽性反應依照台中市政府的說法處理飆收後是由業者自行派遮載運\n172352\t199500\t也就是說這台車到底接觸到到哪有非洲豬瘟的病毒應該是這次查明這事件的重中之重對不對不過到現在好像要查起來應該是很費工了很費工不過還是要查還是要查第一個是清潔隊無期清潔隊的處理是陰性的但是載運的這台車輛是驗到有非洲豬瘟呈陽性那到底是不是處理出問題\n203499\t217397\t那到底是不是廚餘出問題這是一件事情嘛那第二件事情在整個調查報告中竟然還多出一個西養豬場然後浙江無竊養豬場就是這個暗場竟然還可以違規分讓多餘的廚餘給西養豬場使用\n223329\t233732\t這是什麼樣的狀況啦他還要用到中間給西廠去用最重要的喔 西養豬場沒有標授無期清潔隊的廚餘卻能從無期清潔隊再去載廚餘回來養豬這個表格很清楚嘛 對不對這問題真的實在是\n249261\t274725\t不要說養豬戶啦現在連消費者都看的都會物理看的話也都非常驚訝說怎麼有這樣的一個一個方向軸板的那不叫管理啊那等於是沒有在管理嘛應該是這麼說嘛那現在這台車這台車到底它的整個路徑有沒有辦法去追查出來\n276329\t301514\t這台有驗到陽性反應的這台車有沒有辦法去了解它的路徑怎麼樣有沒有從這個地方去追查下去部長就你的掌握跟了解我所知道是這個載送的目前是沒有GPS啦所以等於是透過包含了各種的車級資料還有照相機等等我們可以提供的包含了這個處理的去向各種的資料我們都已經給檢調單位去處理了\n303934\t330901\t所以這個至於說這個東西因為我沒有參與在這個疫調的這個過程所以我不清楚但是其實可能是的確是很困難的但是我們這邊是負責這個真主那的確那家是沒有落實真主的然後也跟委員報告委員剛才說的西洋豬場這個的確是違規的從這個我們的廚餘一家就是簽約就是那家不能再去分送給別人這個也是完全是違規可以會受罰的他會受法我知道了齁但是\n331485\t359270\t但是他會受啊 但是為什麼這一個他沒有去標這個武器清潔隊的廚餘這個西洋豬場還可以跑到這個武器清潔隊去載送這個廚餘那這兩照可以接受到什麼處罰一個是工部門的清潔隊 一個是西洋豬場對 這個會依照我們的廢清法不知道第幾條有一條 他們昨天 我們昨天有匯報這個事情是完全會開罰的\n361481\t380467\t請上來說明一下好不好針對公部門還有針對這個西洋豬場怎麼採訪 怎麼處理他這個因為是屬於飼料的轉移大概是用飼料管理法跟這個動物疾病防治條例來做處分\n381563\t400166\t對 怎麼處分嘛一照這兩個條例對公部門清潔隊怎麼處理對這個西洋署長怎麼處理請署長是不是可以說明清楚一點我們想了解一下因為這個不說明清楚我想現在是禁運然後禁止廚餘\n413024\t428207\t包委員 這個會用洞床條例去拆滑然後就是目前的狀況是會議給農業部用洞床條例跟飼料管理法對 怎麼處罰嘛 依照這兩個條例要怎麼處罰嘛是滑緩對 滑緩 對 清潔隊 公部門怎麼處理對 西洋組長怎麼處理\n435473\t451280\t兩邊應該都可以拆滑怎麼拆滑啦 我問第三次了啊你們怎麼到現在沒辦法答覆我這麼簡單 明確法律有明確性嘛清潔隊 清潔隊怎麼可以讓沒有來飆售這個廚餘的西營養豬場來載運這個廚餘公部門怎麼可以公然犯罪違規違法那我們怎麼處理吧\n464943\t489993\t那西洋豬場怎麼可以去沒有標誌的時候可以直接到工部門的清潔隊去載送 載運這一個廚餘他又應該說到什麼廚華廚華嘛你們怎麼沒有辦法第一時間答覆我 答覆委員會好 包委員 這個我們是不是農業部這邊來回答 回應這個農業部市市長是不是黃市\n495595\t496216\t有關於廚餘的部分的話\n514575\t538536\t這個廚餘工部門沒有標授給西洋豬場西洋豬場怎麼可以去清潔隊載送 載運這個廚餘那清潔隊要負起什麼樣責任那這個去載送西洋豬場要接受到什麼樣的才華主席你要多給我時間我已經問了三分鐘到五分鐘他們都沒有辦法答覆我這樣的問題\n541585\t568826\t抱歉啦 好不好這太煩了你們這個太離譜了你們不管地方 不管中央 我覺得這叫做應變這個叫應變我就問這個題目 到現在沒辦法答覆所以 他們才敢肆無淡計的持續的違法到這種程度嘛\n570854\t585574\t所以等於就是沒有管理嘛就是沒有管理嘛就不只你想要中長期的轉匯維能基本上如果照這樣的情況下去不可能啦可以答覆我了嗎\n588636\t612084\t各位委員報告好那如果這個部分的話我們是認為應該是由這個動船條例裡面的這個因為它造成的這個疫情的這樣的一個部分但是因為動船條例裡面它的這個規定的這個項目比較多所以要引用哪一個條例的罰則的部分我們還需要再來研議市長它造成疫情\n613177\t641422\t是一件事情 他沒有造成疫情平常遇到這種事情 你們就怎麼管理 你們就怎麼處理嘛如果平常遇到這樣的事情的話應該是依照這個廢新法還有這個飼料法的這個部分來處理因為他不是在這個合約廠商裡面飼料法不是你們管的嗎我們的罰則是3到300萬的這個3到300萬是罰台中武器清潔隊還是罰西洋豬場\n643507\t664217\t行為人 行為人 兩個都是行為人啊沒有合約怎麼清潔隊敢把廚藝讓他們來載運就公務人員的部分應該是有公務人員的這個職權的這個部分來做裁處怎麼裁處嘛 怎麼裁處嘛\n667383\t696590\t我現在是指疫情尚未爆發之前持續的有這種事情發生公部門必須負起什麼責任西洋豬場必須接受什麼樣的才華發生疫情之後這兩兆要受到懲罰程度絕對有層次上的不一樣我們現在講前面 再來講後面你們連前面都講不清楚你要怎麼去督導地方啊\n697759\t726202\t你要怎麼去管理啊我後面還有很多題目要問咧我把這題你到現在不知道答不完你在應變什麼啊應變中心不是跨部會所有重要的單位都必須集結然後用最快速的方法去做因應然後該怎麼樣處理 該怎麼處罰第一個時間因為已經碰到疫情發生了\n731468\t757153\t難道進宅進運進廚餘的過程裡面你中文字母跟地文字母在公秀阿其實我們昨天有在討論這個事情啦是不是說明一下因為我們昨天有特別 因為我副組長他過去就在處理廚餘 他比較清楚那跟委員報告齁這一個是因為他跟原來的申請的事項不同而\n758801\t778295\t現在檢察官也在偵辦可能朝向這個檢察官處理是檢察官在處理在行政的處罰上我們什麼樣的作為嘛就這樣而已啊我問的問題不簡單嗎然後你可以分疫情前跟疫情後我都可以接受你就明確的表達說明清楚嘛\n779060\t790656\t跟委員報告那非法載運儲餘的罰則會因為這個不同的樣態然後觸犯的這個條例可能有廢清法還有洞傳法還有飼料管理法那包括了如果是一般的違規的話那會\n795000\t816748\t夾帶廚餘的這樣的垃圾的樣態會罰到一千二到六千元的罰則但是像這個樣態的話是非法載運廚餘給禁止的這個就是他不是經合格的這個養豬場的話那我們依據這個動產條例那處新台幣五萬以上一百萬以下的罰款那累犯的話會加計罰則的這個部分那另外\n817188\t843588\t因為他未經許可那處理廢棄物包括廚餘那可以依照廢棄法來處以新台幣六萬以上三百萬以下的罰款那其他的這個部分那如果有違反了這個飼料管理法的這個部分那我們會依照飼料管理法的部分處以三萬到三百萬以下的罰款大概是目前我們能夠去查照他的這個相關的行為規則所必須要負的責任是這樣子\n844729\t870991\t市長還有部長我希望你們把明確我剛剛提出來這個點疫情前疫情後針對武器清潔隊針對西洋豬場該怎麼處罰該怎麼樣的處理方式用書面資料給我們委員會所有委員做參考這第一件事情也公告全國啦好不好但是我要提醒我為什麼要講這一點來講我後面的事情今天趙委排的這個事情非常重要\n871929\t896939\t有利可圖啦 大家都有同盟機會啦連這個廚餘都可以做到這樣的程度你看那些匯圖他會怎麼處理海洋污染防治法 你只要把廚餘請到到海洋怎麼划 你知道嗎 不能說他們可以從新台幣30萬以上 3000萬以下\n900165\t929108\t好 廚餘到屏東 疫藥廠復納廠不曉得依照廢清法你要怎麼處理地方環保局立即有通報東港警分局來做處理嘛 對不對當場的查扣 然後也移送這個環外公務然後用這個廢法處理及不實申報廢棄物等罪嫌移送屏東地檢署偵辦 最高可以怎麼樣依法廢清法六千到三百萬六千到三百萬\n930666\t954477\t除以倒在海洋依照海洋污染防治法最高可以划到三千萬我們到現在還在六千到三百萬依照廢清法第四十六條不行嗎如果依照廢清法第四十六條可以的話最高到多少你還在六千到三百萬最高到一千五百萬對除以\n957576\t976455\t丟在海洋 最高可以花三千萬丟在你陸地 如果照部長講的 最高是三百萬如果照署長講的 一飛行環四十六條一千五百萬 怎麼差這麼多怎麼差這麼多所以這次招委要排這個修滑你對滑款的部分 要不要重新審視\n979329\t991746\t不能用這樣的差異吧 差太大了吧如果以300跟3000差十倍如果1500到3000是差兩倍不對吧 所以很多人唯利可圖就會跟你拼啦 就會逃亡氣會嘛\n993038\t1017436\t拜託 我今天的主題是要回到這個地方來那我也希望 非洲事務的事情我剛剛有特別提到如果這個點不是在儲雨是在這一台載運車到現在還沒有辦法很詳細的把這台車的路徑去調查出來我覺得 不管中央跟地方到時候都會監察院見好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想本市上週在本委會\n就特別強調台中這個非洲豬瘟的事件中央各單位要強烈的介入不要再讓地方這種叫胡搞瞎搞吧這個狀況一直發生因為醫院哪有清消兩次然後還會驗出陽性嘛再來就最終還拜託了國軍再度這個化學兵進入清消\n那台中市怎麼又馬上派人又再去傾銷一次這很奇怪啦齁我想是說從整個這個事件的一個過程裡面傾銷應變來自己處理整個畫面呈現在國連的面前會覺得是很亂毫無彰化的在應變這樣的事情那我覺得這樣齁 坦白講這一種\n這種處理方式真的會害死這些養豬場這些養豬戶然後甚至會影響到國人吃這個溫體豬肉然後以系列的所有的攤商都會受到很嚴重的這樣的一個傷害跟挑戰所以我坦白講我是真的要在這邊做強力的一個譴責部長你請起來\n你在11月1號有到雲林出席雲林就是全國養豬最大最大最大宗的縣市那你在參加這個環保這個群林志工會的時候你有特別接受媒體的採訪你是希望說朝你中長期方案把廢棄物的觀念轉化為資源但是我要在這邊提醒部長這眼下的廚餘流向已經出了很大的問題\n已經來不及等你以後還要轉會為能了真的會趕不上來啦從應變中心調查報告中初步可以了解疫情僅在台中的武器廠然後病毒恐來自為弱食增足的廚餘\n我現在每一個細節我都講得很清楚了請部長就希望我的這樣的一個質詢可以提醒一些事情但這個處理到底是從哪邊來目前沒有比較明確的方向照這個表 部長可以看一下無期清潔隊的處理是陰性\n無期清潔隊的處理是陰性所以初步可以排除來自清潔隊但載運處理的車輛上有驗到非洲豬瘟陽性反應依照台中市政府的說法處理飆收後是由業者自行派遮載運\n也就是說這台車到底接觸到到哪有非洲豬瘟的病毒應該是這次查明這事件的重中之重對不對不過到現在好像要查起來應該是很費工了很費工不過還是要查還是要查第一個是清潔隊無期清潔隊的處理是陰性的但是載運的這台車輛是驗到有非洲豬瘟呈陽性那到底是不是處理出問題\n那到底是不是廚餘出問題這是一件事情嘛那第二件事情在整個調查報告中竟然還多出一個西養豬場然後浙江無竊養豬場就是這個暗場竟然還可以違規分讓多餘的廚餘給西養豬場使用\n這是什麼樣的狀況啦他還要用到中間給西廠去用最重要的喔 西養豬場沒有標授無期清潔隊的廚餘卻能從無期清潔隊再去載廚餘回來養豬這個表格很清楚嘛 對不對這問題真的實在是\n不要說養豬戶啦現在連消費者都看的都會物理看的話也都非常驚訝說怎麼有這樣的一個一個方向軸板的那不叫管理啊那等於是沒有在管理嘛應該是這麼說嘛那現在這台車這台車到底它的整個路徑有沒有辦法去追查出來\n這台有驗到陽性反應的這台車有沒有辦法去了解它的路徑怎麼樣有沒有從這個地方去追查下去部長就你的掌握跟了解我所知道是這個載送的目前是沒有GPS啦所以等於是透過包含了各種的車級資料還有照相機等等我們可以提供的包含了這個處理的去向各種的資料我們都已經給檢調單位去處理了\n所以這個至於說這個東西因為我沒有參與在這個疫調的這個過程所以我不清楚但是其實可能是的確是很困難的但是我們這邊是負責這個真主那的確那家是沒有落實真主的然後也跟委員報告委員剛才說的西洋豬場這個的確是違規的從這個我們的廚餘一家就是簽約就是那家不能再去分送給別人這個也是完全是違規可以會受罰的他會受法我知道了齁但是\n但是他會受啊 但是為什麼這一個他沒有去標這個武器清潔隊的廚餘這個西洋豬場還可以跑到這個武器清潔隊去載送這個廚餘那這兩照可以接受到什麼處罰一個是工部門的清潔隊 一個是西洋豬場對 這個會依照我們的廢清法不知道第幾條有一條 他們昨天 我們昨天有匯報這個事情是完全會開罰的\n請上來說明一下好不好針對公部門還有針對這個西洋豬場怎麼採訪 怎麼處理他這個因為是屬於飼料的轉移大概是用飼料管理法跟這個動物疾病防治條例來做處分\n對 怎麼處分嘛一照這兩個條例對公部門清潔隊怎麼處理對這個西洋署長怎麼處理請署長是不是可以說明清楚一點我們想了解一下因為這個不說明清楚我想現在是禁運然後禁止廚餘\n包委員 這個會用洞床條例去拆滑然後就是目前的狀況是會議給農業部用洞床條例跟飼料管理法對 怎麼處罰嘛 依照這兩個條例要怎麼處罰嘛是滑緩對 滑緩 對 清潔隊 公部門怎麼處理對 西洋組長怎麼處理\n兩邊應該都可以拆滑怎麼拆滑啦 我問第三次了啊你們怎麼到現在沒辦法答覆我這麼簡單 明確法律有明確性嘛清潔隊 清潔隊怎麼可以讓沒有來飆售這個廚餘的西營養豬場來載運這個廚餘公部門怎麼可以公然犯罪違規違法那我們怎麼處理吧\n那西洋豬場怎麼可以去沒有標誌的時候可以直接到工部門的清潔隊去載送 載運這一個廚餘他又應該說到什麼廚華廚華嘛你們怎麼沒有辦法第一時間答覆我 答覆委員會好 包委員 這個我們是不是農業部這邊來回答 回應這個農業部市市長是不是黃市\n有關於廚餘的部分的話\n這個廚餘工部門沒有標授給西洋豬場西洋豬場怎麼可以去清潔隊載送 載運這個廚餘那清潔隊要負起什麼樣責任那這個去載送西洋豬場要接受到什麼樣的才華主席你要多給我時間我已經問了三分鐘到五分鐘他們都沒有辦法答覆我這樣的問題\n抱歉啦 好不好這太煩了你們這個太離譜了你們不管地方 不管中央 我覺得這叫做應變這個叫應變我就問這個題目 到現在沒辦法答覆所以 他們才敢肆無淡計的持續的違法到這種程度嘛\n所以等於就是沒有管理嘛就是沒有管理嘛就不只你想要中長期的轉匯維能基本上如果照這樣的情況下去不可能啦可以答覆我了嗎\n各位委員報告好那如果這個部分的話我們是認為應該是由這個動船條例裡面的這個因為它造成的這個疫情的這樣的一個部分但是因為動船條例裡面它的這個規定的這個項目比較多所以要引用哪一個條例的罰則的部分我們還需要再來研議市長它造成疫情\n是一件事情 他沒有造成疫情平常遇到這種事情 你們就怎麼管理 你們就怎麼處理嘛如果平常遇到這樣的事情的話應該是依照這個廢新法還有這個飼料法的這個部分來處理因為他不是在這個合約廠商裡面飼料法不是你們管的嗎我們的罰則是3到300萬的這個3到300萬是罰台中武器清潔隊還是罰西洋豬場\n行為人 行為人 兩個都是行為人啊沒有合約怎麼清潔隊敢把廚藝讓他們來載運就公務人員的部分應該是有公務人員的這個職權的這個部分來做裁處怎麼裁處嘛 怎麼裁處嘛\n我現在是指疫情尚未爆發之前持續的有這種事情發生公部門必須負起什麼責任西洋豬場必須接受什麼樣的才華發生疫情之後這兩兆要受到懲罰程度絕對有層次上的不一樣我們現在講前面 再來講後面你們連前面都講不清楚你要怎麼去督導地方啊\n你要怎麼去管理啊我後面還有很多題目要問咧我把這題你到現在不知道答不完你在應變什麼啊應變中心不是跨部會所有重要的單位都必須集結然後用最快速的方法去做因應然後該怎麼樣處理 該怎麼處罰第一個時間因為已經碰到疫情發生了\n難道進宅進運進廚餘的過程裡面你中文字母跟地文字母在公秀阿其實我們昨天有在討論這個事情啦是不是說明一下因為我們昨天有特別 因為我副組長他過去就在處理廚餘 他比較清楚那跟委員報告齁這一個是因為他跟原來的申請的事項不同而\n現在檢察官也在偵辦可能朝向這個檢察官處理是檢察官在處理在行政的處罰上我們什麼樣的作為嘛就這樣而已啊我問的問題不簡單嗎然後你可以分疫情前跟疫情後我都可以接受你就明確的表達說明清楚嘛\n跟委員報告那非法載運儲餘的罰則會因為這個不同的樣態然後觸犯的這個條例可能有廢清法還有洞傳法還有飼料管理法那包括了如果是一般的違規的話那會\n夾帶廚餘的這樣的垃圾的樣態會罰到一千二到六千元的罰則但是像這個樣態的話是非法載運廚餘給禁止的這個就是他不是經合格的這個養豬場的話那我們依據這個動產條例那處新台幣五萬以上一百萬以下的罰款那累犯的話會加計罰則的這個部分那另外\n因為他未經許可那處理廢棄物包括廚餘那可以依照廢棄法來處以新台幣六萬以上三百萬以下的罰款那其他的這個部分那如果有違反了這個飼料管理法的這個部分那我們會依照飼料管理法的部分處以三萬到三百萬以下的罰款大概是目前我們能夠去查照他的這個相關的行為規則所必須要負的責任是這樣子\n市長還有部長我希望你們把明確我剛剛提出來這個點疫情前疫情後針對武器清潔隊針對西洋豬場該怎麼處罰該怎麼樣的處理方式用書面資料給我們委員會所有委員做參考這第一件事情也公告全國啦好不好但是我要提醒我為什麼要講這一點來講我後面的事情今天趙委排的這個事情非常重要\n有利可圖啦 大家都有同盟機會啦連這個廚餘都可以做到這樣的程度你看那些匯圖他會怎麼處理海洋污染防治法 你只要把廚餘請到到海洋怎麼划 你知道嗎 不能說他們可以從新台幣30萬以上 3000萬以下\n好 廚餘到屏東 疫藥廠復納廠不曉得依照廢清法你要怎麼處理地方環保局立即有通報東港警分局來做處理嘛 對不對當場的查扣 然後也移送這個環外公務然後用這個廢法處理及不實申報廢棄物等罪嫌移送屏東地檢署偵辦 最高可以怎麼樣依法廢清法六千到三百萬六千到三百萬\n除以倒在海洋依照海洋污染防治法最高可以划到三千萬我們到現在還在六千到三百萬依照廢清法第四十六條不行嗎如果依照廢清法第四十六條可以的話最高到多少你還在六千到三百萬最高到一千五百萬對除以\n丟在海洋 最高可以花三千萬丟在你陸地 如果照部長講的 最高是三百萬如果照署長講的 一飛行環四十六條一千五百萬 怎麼差這麼多怎麼差這麼多所以這次招委要排這個修滑你對滑款的部分 要不要重新審視\n不能用這樣的差異吧 差太大了吧如果以300跟3000差十倍如果1500到3000是差兩倍不對吧 所以很多人唯利可圖就會跟你拼啦 就會逃亡氣會嘛\n拜託 我今天的主題是要回到這個地方來那我也希望 非洲事務的事情我剛剛有特別提到如果這個點不是在儲雨是在這一台載運車到現在還沒有辦法很詳細的把這台車的路徑去調查出來我覺得 不管中央跟地方到時候都會監察院見好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.542 --> 00:08.452\n謝謝主席我想本市上週在本委會\n\n00:11.089 --> 00:35.864\n就特別強調台中這個非洲豬瘟的事件中央各單位要強烈的介入不要再讓地方這種叫胡搞瞎搞吧這個狀況一直發生因為醫院哪有清消兩次然後還會驗出陽性嘛再來就最終還拜託了國軍再度這個化學兵進入清消\n\n00:36.991 --> 00:50.638\n那台中市怎麼又馬上派人又再去傾銷一次這很奇怪啦齁我想是說從整個這個事件的一個過程裡面傾銷應變來自己處理整個畫面呈現在國連的面前會覺得是很亂毫無彰化的在應變這樣的事情那我覺得這樣齁坦白講這一種\n\n01:06.892 --> 01:26.838\n這種處理方式真的會害死這些養豬場這些養豬戶然後甚至會影響到國人吃這個溫體豬肉然後以系列的所有的攤商都會受到很嚴重的這樣的一個傷害跟挑戰所以我坦白講我是真的要在這邊做強力的一個譴責部長你請起來\n\n01:31.153 --> 01:55.323\n你在11月1號有到雲林出席雲林就是全國養豬最大最大最大宗的縣市那你在參加這個環保這個群林志工會的時候你有特別接受媒體的採訪你是希望說朝你中長期方案把廢棄物的觀念轉化為資源但是我要在這邊提醒部長這眼下的廚餘流向已經出了很大的問題\n\n01:56.763 --> 02:16.381\n已經來不及等你以後還要轉會為能了真的會趕不上來啦從應變中心調查報告中初步可以了解疫情僅在台中的武器廠然後病毒恐來自為弱食增足的廚餘\n\n02:17.979 --> 02:35.429\n我現在每一個細節我都講得很清楚了請部長就希望我的這樣的一個質詢可以提醒一些事情但這個處理到底是從哪邊來目前沒有比較明確的方向照這個表部長可以看一下無期清潔隊的處理是陰性\n\n02:36.678 --> 02:50.832\n無期清潔隊的處理是陰性所以初步可以排除來自清潔隊但載運處理的車輛上有驗到非洲豬瘟陽性反應依照台中市政府的說法處理飆收後是由業者自行派遮載運\n\n02:52.352 --> 03:19.500\n也就是說這台車到底接觸到到哪有非洲豬瘟的病毒應該是這次查明這事件的重中之重對不對不過到現在好像要查起來應該是很費工了很費工不過還是要查還是要查第一個是清潔隊無期清潔隊的處理是陰性的但是載運的這台車輛是驗到有非洲豬瘟呈陽性那到底是不是處理出問題\n\n03:23.499 --> 03:37.397\n那到底是不是廚餘出問題這是一件事情嘛那第二件事情在整個調查報告中竟然還多出一個西養豬場然後浙江無竊養豬場就是這個暗場竟然還可以違規分讓多餘的廚餘給西養豬場使用\n\n03:43.329 --> 03:53.732\n這是什麼樣的狀況啦他還要用到中間給西廠去用最重要的喔西養豬場沒有標授無期清潔隊的廚餘卻能從無期清潔隊再去載廚餘回來養豬這個表格很清楚嘛對不對這問題真的實在是\n\n04:09.261 --> 04:34.725\n不要說養豬戶啦現在連消費者都看的都會物理看的話也都非常驚訝說怎麼有這樣的一個一個方向軸板的那不叫管理啊那等於是沒有在管理嘛應該是這麼說嘛那現在這台車這台車到底它的整個路徑有沒有辦法去追查出來\n\n04:36.329 --> 05:01.514\n這台有驗到陽性反應的這台車有沒有辦法去了解它的路徑怎麼樣有沒有從這個地方去追查下去部長就你的掌握跟了解我所知道是這個載送的目前是沒有GPS啦所以等於是透過包含了各種的車級資料還有照相機等等我們可以提供的包含了這個處理的去向各種的資料我們都已經給檢調單位去處理了\n\n05:03.934 --> 05:30.901\n所以這個至於說這個東西因為我沒有參與在這個疫調的這個過程所以我不清楚但是其實可能是的確是很困難的但是我們這邊是負責這個真主那的確那家是沒有落實真主的然後也跟委員報告委員剛才說的西洋豬場這個的確是違規的從這個我們的廚餘一家就是簽約就是那家不能再去分送給別人這個也是完全是違規可以會受罰的他會受法我知道了齁但是\n\n05:31.485 --> 05:59.270\n但是他會受啊但是為什麼這一個他沒有去標這個武器清潔隊的廚餘這個西洋豬場還可以跑到這個武器清潔隊去載送這個廚餘那這兩照可以接受到什麼處罰一個是工部門的清潔隊一個是西洋豬場對這個會依照我們的廢清法不知道第幾條有一條他們昨天我們昨天有匯報這個事情是完全會開罰的\n\n06:01.481 --> 06:20.467\n請上來說明一下好不好針對公部門還有針對這個西洋豬場怎麼採訪怎麼處理他這個因為是屬於飼料的轉移大概是用飼料管理法跟這個動物疾病防治條例來做處分\n\n06:21.563 --> 06:40.166\n對怎麼處分嘛一照這兩個條例對公部門清潔隊怎麼處理對這個西洋署長怎麼處理請署長是不是可以說明清楚一點我們想了解一下因為這個不說明清楚我想現在是禁運然後禁止廚餘\n\n06:53.024 --> 07:08.207\n包委員這個會用洞床條例去拆滑然後就是目前的狀況是會議給農業部用洞床條例跟飼料管理法對怎麼處罰嘛依照這兩個條例要怎麼處罰嘛是滑緩對滑緩對清潔隊公部門怎麼處理對西洋組長怎麼處理\n\n07:15.473 --> 07:31.280\n兩邊應該都可以拆滑怎麼拆滑啦我問第三次了啊你們怎麼到現在沒辦法答覆我這麼簡單明確法律有明確性嘛清潔隊清潔隊怎麼可以讓沒有來飆售這個廚餘的西營養豬場來載運這個廚餘公部門怎麼可以公然犯罪違規違法那我們怎麼處理吧\n\n07:44.943 --> 08:09.993\n那西洋豬場怎麼可以去沒有標誌的時候可以直接到工部門的清潔隊去載送載運這一個廚餘他又應該說到什麼廚華廚華嘛你們怎麼沒有辦法第一時間答覆我答覆委員會好包委員這個我們是不是農業部這邊來回答回應這個農業部市市長是不是黃市\n\n08:15.595 --> 08:16.216\n有關於廚餘的部分的話\n\n08:34.575 --> 08:58.536\n這個廚餘工部門沒有標授給西洋豬場西洋豬場怎麼可以去清潔隊載送載運這個廚餘那清潔隊要負起什麼樣責任那這個去載送西洋豬場要接受到什麼樣的才華主席你要多給我時間我已經問了三分鐘到五分鐘他們都沒有辦法答覆我這樣的問題\n\n09:01.585 --> 09:28.826\n抱歉啦好不好這太煩了你們這個太離譜了你們不管地方不管中央我覺得這叫做應變這個叫應變我就問這個題目到現在沒辦法答覆所以他們才敢肆無淡計的持續的違法到這種程度嘛\n\n09:30.854 --> 09:45.574\n所以等於就是沒有管理嘛就是沒有管理嘛就不只你想要中長期的轉匯維能基本上如果照這樣的情況下去不可能啦可以答覆我了嗎\n\n09:48.636 --> 10:12.084\n各位委員報告好那如果這個部分的話我們是認為應該是由這個動船條例裡面的這個因為它造成的這個疫情的這樣的一個部分但是因為動船條例裡面它的這個規定的這個項目比較多所以要引用哪一個條例的罰則的部分我們還需要再來研議市長它造成疫情\n\n10:13.177 --> 10:41.422\n是一件事情他沒有造成疫情平常遇到這種事情你們就怎麼管理你們就怎麼處理嘛如果平常遇到這樣的事情的話應該是依照這個廢新法還有這個飼料法的這個部分來處理因為他不是在這個合約廠商裡面飼料法不是你們管的嗎我們的罰則是3到300萬的這個3到300萬是罰台中武器清潔隊還是罰西洋豬場\n\n10:43.507 --> 11:04.217\n行為人行為人兩個都是行為人啊沒有合約怎麼清潔隊敢把廚藝讓他們來載運就公務人員的部分應該是有公務人員的這個職權的這個部分來做裁處怎麼裁處嘛怎麼裁處嘛\n\n11:07.383 --> 11:36.590\n我現在是指疫情尚未爆發之前持續的有這種事情發生公部門必須負起什麼責任西洋豬場必須接受什麼樣的才華發生疫情之後這兩兆要受到懲罰程度絕對有層次上的不一樣我們現在講前面再來講後面你們連前面都講不清楚你要怎麼去督導地方啊\n\n11:37.759 --> 12:06.202\n你要怎麼去管理啊我後面還有很多題目要問咧我把這題你到現在不知道答不完你在應變什麼啊應變中心不是跨部會所有重要的單位都必須集結然後用最快速的方法去做因應然後該怎麼樣處理該怎麼處罰第一個時間因為已經碰到疫情發生了\n\n12:11.468 --> 12:37.153\n難道進宅進運進廚餘的過程裡面你中文字母跟地文字母在公秀阿其實我們昨天有在討論這個事情啦是不是說明一下因為我們昨天有特別因為我副組長他過去就在處理廚餘他比較清楚那跟委員報告齁這一個是因為他跟原來的申請的事項不同而\n\n12:38.801 --> 12:58.295\n現在檢察官也在偵辦可能朝向這個檢察官處理是檢察官在處理在行政的處罰上我們什麼樣的作為嘛就這樣而已啊我問的問題不簡單嗎然後你可以分疫情前跟疫情後我都可以接受你就明確的表達說明清楚嘛\n\n12:59.060 --> 13:10.656\n跟委員報告那非法載運儲餘的罰則會因為這個不同的樣態然後觸犯的這個條例可能有廢清法還有洞傳法還有飼料管理法那包括了如果是一般的違規的話那會\n\n13:15.000 --> 13:36.748\n夾帶廚餘的這樣的垃圾的樣態會罰到一千二到六千元的罰則但是像這個樣態的話是非法載運廚餘給禁止的這個就是他不是經合格的這個養豬場的話那我們依據這個動產條例那處新台幣五萬以上一百萬以下的罰款那累犯的話會加計罰則的這個部分那另外\n\n13:37.188 --> 14:03.588\n因為他未經許可那處理廢棄物包括廚餘那可以依照廢棄法來處以新台幣六萬以上三百萬以下的罰款那其他的這個部分那如果有違反了這個飼料管理法的這個部分那我們會依照飼料管理法的部分處以三萬到三百萬以下的罰款大概是目前我們能夠去查照他的這個相關的行為規則所必須要負的責任是這樣子\n\n14:04.729 --> 14:30.991\n市長還有部長我希望你們把明確我剛剛提出來這個點疫情前疫情後針對武器清潔隊針對西洋豬場該怎麼處罰該怎麼樣的處理方式用書面資料給我們委員會所有委員做參考這第一件事情也公告全國啦好不好但是我要提醒我為什麼要講這一點來講我後面的事情今天趙委排的這個事情非常重要\n\n14:31.929 --> 14:56.939\n有利可圖啦大家都有同盟機會啦連這個廚餘都可以做到這樣的程度你看那些匯圖他會怎麼處理海洋污染防治法你只要把廚餘請到到海洋怎麼划你知道嗎不能說他們可以從新台幣30萬以上3000萬以下\n\n15:00.165 --> 15:29.108\n好廚餘到屏東疫藥廠復納廠不曉得依照廢清法你要怎麼處理地方環保局立即有通報東港警分局來做處理嘛對不對當場的查扣然後也移送這個環外公務然後用這個廢法處理及不實申報廢棄物等罪嫌移送屏東地檢署偵辦最高可以怎麼樣依法廢清法六千到三百萬六千到三百萬\n\n15:30.666 --> 15:54.477\n除以倒在海洋依照海洋污染防治法最高可以划到三千萬我們到現在還在六千到三百萬依照廢清法第四十六條不行嗎如果依照廢清法第四十六條可以的話最高到多少你還在六千到三百萬最高到一千五百萬對除以\n\n15:57.576 --> 16:16.455\n丟在海洋最高可以花三千萬丟在你陸地如果照部長講的最高是三百萬如果照署長講的一飛行環四十六條一千五百萬怎麼差這麼多怎麼差這麼多所以這次招委要排這個修滑你對滑款的部分要不要重新審視\n\n16:19.329 --> 16:31.746\n不能用這樣的差異吧差太大了吧如果以300跟3000差十倍如果1500到3000是差兩倍不對吧所以很多人唯利可圖就會跟你拼啦就會逃亡氣會嘛\n\n16:33.038 --> 16:57.436\n拜託我今天的主題是要回到這個地方來那我也希望非洲事務的事情我剛剛有特別提到如果這個點不是在儲雨是在這一台載運車到現在還沒有辦法很詳細的把這台車的路徑去調查出來我覺得不管中央跟地方到時候都會監察院見好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.542,"end":8.452,"text":"謝謝主席我想本市上週在本委會"},{"start":11.089,"end":35.864,"text":"就特別強調台中這個非洲豬瘟的事件中央各單位要強烈的介入不要再讓地方這種叫胡搞瞎搞吧這個狀況一直發生因為醫院哪有清消兩次然後還會驗出陽性嘛再來就最終還拜託了國軍再度這個化學兵進入清消"},{"start":36.991,"end":50.638,"text":"那台中市怎麼又馬上派人又再去傾銷一次這很奇怪啦齁我想是說從整個這個事件的一個過程裡面傾銷應變來自己處理整個畫面呈現在國連的面前會覺得是很亂毫無彰化的在應變這樣的事情那我覺得這樣齁 坦白講這一種"},{"start":66.892,"end":86.838,"text":"這種處理方式真的會害死這些養豬場這些養豬戶然後甚至會影響到國人吃這個溫體豬肉然後以系列的所有的攤商都會受到很嚴重的這樣的一個傷害跟挑戰所以我坦白講我是真的要在這邊做強力的一個譴責部長你請起來"},{"start":91.153,"end":115.323,"text":"你在11月1號有到雲林出席雲林就是全國養豬最大最大最大宗的縣市那你在參加這個環保這個群林志工會的時候你有特別接受媒體的採訪你是希望說朝你中長期方案把廢棄物的觀念轉化為資源但是我要在這邊提醒部長這眼下的廚餘流向已經出了很大的問題"},{"start":116.763,"end":136.381,"text":"已經來不及等你以後還要轉會為能了真的會趕不上來啦從應變中心調查報告中初步可以了解疫情僅在台中的武器廠然後病毒恐來自為弱食增足的廚餘"},{"start":137.979,"end":155.429,"text":"我現在每一個細節我都講得很清楚了請部長就希望我的這樣的一個質詢可以提醒一些事情但這個處理到底是從哪邊來目前沒有比較明確的方向照這個表 部長可以看一下無期清潔隊的處理是陰性"},{"start":156.678,"end":170.832,"text":"無期清潔隊的處理是陰性所以初步可以排除來自清潔隊但載運處理的車輛上有驗到非洲豬瘟陽性反應依照台中市政府的說法處理飆收後是由業者自行派遮載運"},{"start":172.352,"end":199.5,"text":"也就是說這台車到底接觸到到哪有非洲豬瘟的病毒應該是這次查明這事件的重中之重對不對不過到現在好像要查起來應該是很費工了很費工不過還是要查還是要查第一個是清潔隊無期清潔隊的處理是陰性的但是載運的這台車輛是驗到有非洲豬瘟呈陽性那到底是不是處理出問題"},{"start":203.499,"end":217.397,"text":"那到底是不是廚餘出問題這是一件事情嘛那第二件事情在整個調查報告中竟然還多出一個西養豬場然後浙江無竊養豬場就是這個暗場竟然還可以違規分讓多餘的廚餘給西養豬場使用"},{"start":223.329,"end":233.732,"text":"這是什麼樣的狀況啦他還要用到中間給西廠去用最重要的喔 西養豬場沒有標授無期清潔隊的廚餘卻能從無期清潔隊再去載廚餘回來養豬這個表格很清楚嘛 對不對這問題真的實在是"},{"start":249.261,"end":274.725,"text":"不要說養豬戶啦現在連消費者都看的都會物理看的話也都非常驚訝說怎麼有這樣的一個一個方向軸板的那不叫管理啊那等於是沒有在管理嘛應該是這麼說嘛那現在這台車這台車到底它的整個路徑有沒有辦法去追查出來"},{"start":276.329,"end":301.514,"text":"這台有驗到陽性反應的這台車有沒有辦法去了解它的路徑怎麼樣有沒有從這個地方去追查下去部長就你的掌握跟了解我所知道是這個載送的目前是沒有GPS啦所以等於是透過包含了各種的車級資料還有照相機等等我們可以提供的包含了這個處理的去向各種的資料我們都已經給檢調單位去處理了"},{"start":303.934,"end":330.901,"text":"所以這個至於說這個東西因為我沒有參與在這個疫調的這個過程所以我不清楚但是其實可能是的確是很困難的但是我們這邊是負責這個真主那的確那家是沒有落實真主的然後也跟委員報告委員剛才說的西洋豬場這個的確是違規的從這個我們的廚餘一家就是簽約就是那家不能再去分送給別人這個也是完全是違規可以會受罰的他會受法我知道了齁但是"},{"start":331.485,"end":359.27,"text":"但是他會受啊 但是為什麼這一個他沒有去標這個武器清潔隊的廚餘這個西洋豬場還可以跑到這個武器清潔隊去載送這個廚餘那這兩照可以接受到什麼處罰一個是工部門的清潔隊 一個是西洋豬場對 這個會依照我們的廢清法不知道第幾條有一條 他們昨天 我們昨天有匯報這個事情是完全會開罰的"},{"start":361.481,"end":380.467,"text":"請上來說明一下好不好針對公部門還有針對這個西洋豬場怎麼採訪 怎麼處理他這個因為是屬於飼料的轉移大概是用飼料管理法跟這個動物疾病防治條例來做處分"},{"start":381.563,"end":400.166,"text":"對 怎麼處分嘛一照這兩個條例對公部門清潔隊怎麼處理對這個西洋署長怎麼處理請署長是不是可以說明清楚一點我們想了解一下因為這個不說明清楚我想現在是禁運然後禁止廚餘"},{"start":413.024,"end":428.207,"text":"包委員 這個會用洞床條例去拆滑然後就是目前的狀況是會議給農業部用洞床條例跟飼料管理法對 怎麼處罰嘛 依照這兩個條例要怎麼處罰嘛是滑緩對 滑緩 對 清潔隊 公部門怎麼處理對 西洋組長怎麼處理"},{"start":435.473,"end":451.28,"text":"兩邊應該都可以拆滑怎麼拆滑啦 我問第三次了啊你們怎麼到現在沒辦法答覆我這麼簡單 明確法律有明確性嘛清潔隊 清潔隊怎麼可以讓沒有來飆售這個廚餘的西營養豬場來載運這個廚餘公部門怎麼可以公然犯罪違規違法那我們怎麼處理吧"},{"start":464.943,"end":489.993,"text":"那西洋豬場怎麼可以去沒有標誌的時候可以直接到工部門的清潔隊去載送 載運這一個廚餘他又應該說到什麼廚華廚華嘛你們怎麼沒有辦法第一時間答覆我 答覆委員會好 包委員 這個我們是不是農業部這邊來回答 回應這個農業部市市長是不是黃市"},{"start":495.595,"end":496.216,"text":"有關於廚餘的部分的話"},{"start":514.575,"end":538.536,"text":"這個廚餘工部門沒有標授給西洋豬場西洋豬場怎麼可以去清潔隊載送 載運這個廚餘那清潔隊要負起什麼樣責任那這個去載送西洋豬場要接受到什麼樣的才華主席你要多給我時間我已經問了三分鐘到五分鐘他們都沒有辦法答覆我這樣的問題"},{"start":541.585,"end":568.826,"text":"抱歉啦 好不好這太煩了你們這個太離譜了你們不管地方 不管中央 我覺得這叫做應變這個叫應變我就問這個題目 到現在沒辦法答覆所以 他們才敢肆無淡計的持續的違法到這種程度嘛"},{"start":570.854,"end":585.574,"text":"所以等於就是沒有管理嘛就是沒有管理嘛就不只你想要中長期的轉匯維能基本上如果照這樣的情況下去不可能啦可以答覆我了嗎"},{"start":588.636,"end":612.084,"text":"各位委員報告好那如果這個部分的話我們是認為應該是由這個動船條例裡面的這個因為它造成的這個疫情的這樣的一個部分但是因為動船條例裡面它的這個規定的這個項目比較多所以要引用哪一個條例的罰則的部分我們還需要再來研議市長它造成疫情"},{"start":613.177,"end":641.422,"text":"是一件事情 他沒有造成疫情平常遇到這種事情 你們就怎麼管理 你們就怎麼處理嘛如果平常遇到這樣的事情的話應該是依照這個廢新法還有這個飼料法的這個部分來處理因為他不是在這個合約廠商裡面飼料法不是你們管的嗎我們的罰則是3到300萬的這個3到300萬是罰台中武器清潔隊還是罰西洋豬場"},{"start":643.507,"end":664.217,"text":"行為人 行為人 兩個都是行為人啊沒有合約怎麼清潔隊敢把廚藝讓他們來載運就公務人員的部分應該是有公務人員的這個職權的這個部分來做裁處怎麼裁處嘛 怎麼裁處嘛"},{"start":667.383,"end":696.59,"text":"我現在是指疫情尚未爆發之前持續的有這種事情發生公部門必須負起什麼責任西洋豬場必須接受什麼樣的才華發生疫情之後這兩兆要受到懲罰程度絕對有層次上的不一樣我們現在講前面 再來講後面你們連前面都講不清楚你要怎麼去督導地方啊"},{"start":697.759,"end":726.202,"text":"你要怎麼去管理啊我後面還有很多題目要問咧我把這題你到現在不知道答不完你在應變什麼啊應變中心不是跨部會所有重要的單位都必須集結然後用最快速的方法去做因應然後該怎麼樣處理 該怎麼處罰第一個時間因為已經碰到疫情發生了"},{"start":731.468,"end":757.153,"text":"難道進宅進運進廚餘的過程裡面你中文字母跟地文字母在公秀阿其實我們昨天有在討論這個事情啦是不是說明一下因為我們昨天有特別 因為我副組長他過去就在處理廚餘 他比較清楚那跟委員報告齁這一個是因為他跟原來的申請的事項不同而"},{"start":758.801,"end":778.295,"text":"現在檢察官也在偵辦可能朝向這個檢察官處理是檢察官在處理在行政的處罰上我們什麼樣的作為嘛就這樣而已啊我問的問題不簡單嗎然後你可以分疫情前跟疫情後我都可以接受你就明確的表達說明清楚嘛"},{"start":779.06,"end":790.656,"text":"跟委員報告那非法載運儲餘的罰則會因為這個不同的樣態然後觸犯的這個條例可能有廢清法還有洞傳法還有飼料管理法那包括了如果是一般的違規的話那會"},{"start":795,"end":816.748,"text":"夾帶廚餘的這樣的垃圾的樣態會罰到一千二到六千元的罰則但是像這個樣態的話是非法載運廚餘給禁止的這個就是他不是經合格的這個養豬場的話那我們依據這個動產條例那處新台幣五萬以上一百萬以下的罰款那累犯的話會加計罰則的這個部分那另外"},{"start":817.188,"end":843.588,"text":"因為他未經許可那處理廢棄物包括廚餘那可以依照廢棄法來處以新台幣六萬以上三百萬以下的罰款那其他的這個部分那如果有違反了這個飼料管理法的這個部分那我們會依照飼料管理法的部分處以三萬到三百萬以下的罰款大概是目前我們能夠去查照他的這個相關的行為規則所必須要負的責任是這樣子"},{"start":844.729,"end":870.991,"text":"市長還有部長我希望你們把明確我剛剛提出來這個點疫情前疫情後針對武器清潔隊針對西洋豬場該怎麼處罰該怎麼樣的處理方式用書面資料給我們委員會所有委員做參考這第一件事情也公告全國啦好不好但是我要提醒我為什麼要講這一點來講我後面的事情今天趙委排的這個事情非常重要"},{"start":871.929,"end":896.939,"text":"有利可圖啦 大家都有同盟機會啦連這個廚餘都可以做到這樣的程度你看那些匯圖他會怎麼處理海洋污染防治法 你只要把廚餘請到到海洋怎麼划 你知道嗎 不能說他們可以從新台幣30萬以上 3000萬以下"},{"start":900.165,"end":929.108,"text":"好 廚餘到屏東 疫藥廠復納廠不曉得依照廢清法你要怎麼處理地方環保局立即有通報東港警分局來做處理嘛 對不對當場的查扣 然後也移送這個環外公務然後用這個廢法處理及不實申報廢棄物等罪嫌移送屏東地檢署偵辦 最高可以怎麼樣依法廢清法六千到三百萬六千到三百萬"},{"start":930.666,"end":954.477,"text":"除以倒在海洋依照海洋污染防治法最高可以划到三千萬我們到現在還在六千到三百萬依照廢清法第四十六條不行嗎如果依照廢清法第四十六條可以的話最高到多少你還在六千到三百萬最高到一千五百萬對除以"},{"start":957.576,"end":976.455,"text":"丟在海洋 最高可以花三千萬丟在你陸地 如果照部長講的 最高是三百萬如果照署長講的 一飛行環四十六條一千五百萬 怎麼差這麼多怎麼差這麼多所以這次招委要排這個修滑你對滑款的部分 要不要重新審視"},{"start":979.329,"end":991.746,"text":"不能用這樣的差異吧 差太大了吧如果以300跟3000差十倍如果1500到3000是差兩倍不對吧 所以很多人唯利可圖就會跟你拼啦 就會逃亡氣會嘛"},{"start":993.038,"end":1017.436,"text":"拜託 我今天的主題是要回到這個地方來那我也希望 非洲事務的事情我剛剛有特別提到如果這個點不是在儲雨是在這一台載運車到現在還沒有辦法很詳細的把這台車的路徑去調查出來我覺得 不管中央跟地方到時候都會監察院見好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝劉建國委員的發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":469,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（9時35分）謝謝主席。我想本席上週在本委會就特別強調，臺中非洲豬瘟的事件中央各單位要強烈的介入，不要再讓地方這種胡搞瞎搞的狀況一直發生。因為它有清消兩次，然後還會驗出陽性，最終還拜託了國軍化學兵進入清消，那臺中市怎麼又馬上派人再去清消一次，這很奇怪啦！我想從整個事件的過程裡面，清消、應變，乃至於廚餘處理，說實在整個畫面呈現在國人的面前，會覺得在應變這樣的事情很亂、毫無章法。我坦白講，這種處理方式真的會害死這些養豬場、養豬戶，然後甚至會影響到國人吃溫體豬肉，然後一系列所有的攤商都會受到很嚴重的傷害跟挑戰，所以我坦白講，我是真的要在這邊做強力的譴責啦！部長，你請起來。","你在11月1號有到雲林，雲林就是全國養豬最大宗的縣市，那你在參加環保群英志工會的時候有特別接受媒體的採訪，你是希望草擬中長期方案把廢棄物的觀念轉化為資源，但是我要在這邊提醒部長，眼下的廚餘流向已經出了很大的問題，已經來不及等你以後還要轉廢為能，真的會趕不上來啦！"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["劉委員建國：從應變中心的調查報告中，初步可以了解疫情僅在臺中的梧棲場，然後病毒恐來自未落實蒸煮的廚餘。現在每一個細節我都講得很清楚了，希望我這樣的一個質詢可以提醒一些事情啦！但這個廚餘到底是從哪邊來？目前沒有比較明確的方向，照這個表，部長可以看一下，梧棲清潔隊的廚餘是陰性，所以初步可以排除來自清潔隊，但載運廚餘的車輛上有驗到非洲豬瘟陽性反應，依照臺中市政府的說法，廚餘標售後是由業者自行派車載運，也就是說這臺車到底接觸到哪裡有非洲豬瘟的病毒，應該是這次查明這個事件的重中之重，對不對？不過到現在要查應該是很費工了啦！很費工，不過還是要查。","第一個，梧棲清潔隊的廚餘是陰性的，但是載運的這台車輛有驗到非洲豬瘟呈陽性，那到底是不是廚餘出問題？這是一件事情。第二件事情，在整個調查報告中，竟然還多出一個C養豬場，然後這家梧棲養豬場，就是這一個案場，竟然還可以違規分讓多餘的廚餘給C養豬場使用，這是什麼樣的狀況？它用不完還讓C養豬場去用就對了。最重要的是C養豬場沒有標售梧棲清潔隊的廚餘，卻也能去梧棲清潔隊載廚餘回來養豬，這個表格很清楚，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["劉委員建國：這問題真的不要說養豬戶，現在連消費者看得都會霧裡看花，也都非常驚訝怎麼會有這樣一個荒腔走板的……那也不叫管理，那等於是沒有在管理嘛！應該是這麼說嘛！那現在這台車到底它的整個路徑有沒有辦法去追查出來？有驗到陽性反應的這台車有沒有辦法去了解它的路徑怎麼樣？有沒有從這個地方去追查下去？部長，就你的掌握跟了解。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我所知道的是載送的目前是沒有GPS，包含各種的車籍資料，還有照相機等等，我們可以提供的，包含了廚餘的去向等各種資料，我們都已經給檢調單位去處理了；至於這個東西，因為我沒有參與這個疫調的過程，所以我不清楚，但的確是很困難的。我們這邊是負責蒸煮，的確那家是沒有落實蒸煮的。然後也跟委員報告，委員剛才說的C養豬場的確是違規的，我們的廚餘一家簽約就是那家，不能再去分送給別人，這個也完全是違規，會受罰的。"],["劉委員建國：它會受罰我知道啦！但是為什麼它沒有去標梧棲清潔隊的廚餘，這個C養豬場還可以跑到梧棲清潔隊去載送廚餘，這兩造會接受到什麼處罰？一個是公部門的清潔隊，一個是C養豬場。"],["彭部長啓明：這個會依照我們的廢清法，我們昨天有匯報這個事情，是完全會開罰的。"],["劉委員建國：請稍微說明一下好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：飼料法……"],["劉委員建國：針對公部門，還有針對C養豬場，怎麼裁罰？怎麼處理？"],["顏署長旭明：它這個因為是屬於飼料的轉移，大概是用飼料管理法跟動物傳染病防治條例來做處分。"],["劉委員建國：對，那怎麼處分嘛？依照這兩個條例，對公部門清潔隊怎麼處理？對這個C養豬場怎麼處理？請署長是不是可以說明清楚一點，我們想了解一下。因為這個不說明清楚，我想現在是禁運，然後禁止廚餘……"],["許組長正雄：報告委員，這個會用動傳條例去裁罰，目前的狀況會移給農業部用動傳條例跟飼料管理法。"],["劉委員建國：對，那怎麼處罰嘛？依照這兩個條例，要怎麼處罰嘛？"],["許組長正雄：是罰鍰。"],["劉委員建國：罰鍰？對清潔隊、對公部門怎麼處理？對這個C養豬場怎麼處理？"],["許組長正雄：兩邊應該都可以裁罰。"],["劉委員建國：怎麼裁罰啦？我問第三次了啊！你們怎麼到現在沒辦法答復我這麼簡單明確……法律有明確性嘛！清潔隊怎麼可以讓沒有標售廚餘的C養豬場來載運廚餘，公部門怎麼可以公然犯罪、違規違法，那我們怎麼處理嘛？C養豬場怎麼可以在沒有標售的時候，直接到公部門的清潔隊去載運廚餘，它又應該受到什麼處罰？你們怎麼沒有辦法第一時間答復我、答復委員會？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，是不是請農業部這邊來回答，回應這個？"],["劉委員建國：農業部是次長是不是？黃次。"],["黃次長昭欽：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：請直截了當回答我剛才垂詢的這個問題好不好？"],["黃次長昭欽：有關於廚餘這個部分的話……"],["劉委員建國：這個廚餘公部門沒有標售給C養豬場，C養豬場怎麼可以去清潔隊載運廚餘，清潔隊要負起什麼樣的責任？這一個去載送的C養豬場要接受到什麼樣的裁罰？","主席，你要多給我時間，我已經問了3分鐘到5分鐘，他們都沒辦法答復我這樣的問題，不好意思，好不好？","太誇張了，你們這個太離譜了，不管地方，不管中央，我覺得這叫做應變，這個叫應變，我就問這個題目，到現在沒辦法答復我，所以他們才敢肆無忌憚的持續違規、違法到這種程度，所以等於就是沒有管理嘛，就是沒有管理嘛！部長，你想要中長期的轉廢為能，基本上，如果照這樣的情況下去，不可能啦！可以答復我了嗎？"],["黃次長昭欽：跟委員報告，這個部分的話，我們認為應該是屬於動傳條例，因為它造成疫情，但是因為動傳條例裡面規定的項目比較多，所以要引用條例裡的哪一個罰則，我們還需要再來研議。"],["劉委員建國：次長，它造成疫情是一件事情，它就算沒有造成疫情，平常遇到這種事情，你們就怎麼管理、你們就怎麼處理嘛！"],["黃次長昭欽：如果平常遇到這樣的事情，應該是依照廢清法還有飼料法的部分來處理，因為它不是在這個合約廠商裡面，飼料法的那個部分……"],["劉委員建國：飼料法不是你們管的嗎？"],["黃次長昭欽：我們的罰則是三到三百萬。"],["劉委員建國：三到三百萬是罰臺中梧棲清潔隊還是罰C養豬場？"],["黃次長昭欽：行為人。"],["劉委員建國：兩個都是行為人啊，沒有合約，清潔隊怎麼敢載運廚餘？"],["黃次長昭欽：就公務人員的部分，應該是由公務人員的職權來做裁處。"],["劉委員建國：怎麼裁處嘛，怎麼裁處嘛？我現在是指疫情尚未爆發之前持續地有這種事情發生，公部門必須負起什麼責任？C養豬場必須接受什麼樣的裁罰？發生疫情之後，這兩造要受到懲罰的程度絕對有層次上的不一樣，我們先來講前面再來講後面，你們連前面都講不清楚，你要怎麼去督導地方啊？你要怎麼去管理？我後面還有很多題目要問，這題你到現在還沒辦法答復我，你在應變什麼啊？應變中心不是發布會，必須集結所有重要的單位，然後用最快速的方法去做因應，該怎麼樣處理、該怎麼樣處罰，就要第一個時間處理，因為已經碰到疫情發生了，難道禁宰、禁運、禁廚餘的過程裡面，你中央政府跟地方政府在公休啊？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實我們昨天有在討論這個事情，是不是請署長說明一下？因為署長過去就在處理廚餘的議題，他比較清楚。"],["顏署長旭明：是，跟委員報告，這個是因為它跟原來的申請事項不同，現在檢察官也在偵辦，可能朝向偽造……"],["劉委員建國：檢察官處理是檢察官在處理……"],["顏署長旭明：是。"],["劉委員建國：在行政的處罰上，我們有什麼樣的作為嘛！就這樣而已啊，我問的問題不簡單嗎？然後你可以分疫情前跟疫情後，我都可以接受，你就明確地表達，說明清楚嘛。"],["黃次長昭欽：跟委員報告，非法載運廚餘的罰則會因為不同的樣態，觸犯的條例可能有廢清法還有動傳條例以及飼料管理法，如果是一般違規的話，夾帶廚餘垃圾這樣的樣態會罰一千二百元到六千元的罰則；但是這個樣態是非法載運廚餘給禁止的……就是它不是經合格的養豬場的話，我們依據動傳條例處新臺幣五萬以上一百萬以下的罰鍰，累犯的話，會加計罰則的部分；另外，因為它未經許可處理廢棄物，包括廚餘，可以依據廢清法來處以新臺幣六萬以上三百萬以下的罰鍰；其他的部分，如果有違反飼料管理法，我們會依據飼料管理法處以三萬到三百萬以下的罰鍰，以上大概是目前我們能夠去查到它相關的行為所必須要負的責任。"],["劉委員建國：好。次長還有部長，我希望你們明確把我剛剛提出來的這個點，也就是疫情前、疫情後，針對梧棲清潔隊及C養豬場，該怎麼處罰、該有怎麼樣的處理方式，用書面資料給我們委員會所有委員做參考，這是第一件事情。"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒問題。"],["劉委員建國：也公告全國啦，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：是，沒問題。"],["劉委員建國：但是我要提醒，我為什麼要講這一點？因為我要來講我後面的事情，今天召委排的這個事情非常重要，就是只要有利可圖，大家就會「頭毛試火」，連這個廚餘都可以做到這樣的程度，你看那些廢土，它會怎麼處理？依據海洋污染防治法，你只要把廚餘傾倒到海洋，這要怎麼罰，你知道嗎？部長知道……可以從新臺幣三十萬以上到三千萬以下。","廚餘到屏東硬要闖入焚化廠，部長，依照廢清法要怎麼處理？地方環保局有立即通報東港警分局來做處理嘛，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["劉委員建國：也當場查扣，也以妨害公務移送，以非法處理及不實申報廢棄物等罪嫌移送屏東地檢署偵辦，最高處罰可以怎麼樣？"],["彭部長啓明：依廢清法罰六千到三百萬。"],["劉委員建國：六千到三百萬，廚餘倒在海洋，依照海洋污染防治法最高可以罰到三千萬，我們到現在還在六千到三百萬，依照廢清法第四十六條不行嗎？如果可以依照廢清法第四十六條，最高到多少？你還在六千到三百萬。"],["顏署長旭明：最高到一千五百萬。"],["劉委員建國：對，廚餘丟在海洋，最高可以罰三千萬，丟在陸地，如果照部長講的，最高是三百萬，如果照署長講的，依廢清法第四十六條是一千五百萬，怎麼會差這麼多？所以這次召委排這個修法，對於罰款的部分你要不要重新審視？不能有這樣的差異吧，差太大了吧！如果以三百萬跟三千萬是差十倍，如果以一千五百萬到三千萬是差兩倍，不對吧！所以只要有利可圖，很多人就會跟你拚了，就會「頭毛試火」嘛。","拜託，我今天主題是要回到這個地方來，我也希望非洲豬瘟的事情，我剛剛有特別提到，如果這個點不是在廚餘、是在這一臺載運車，到現在還沒有辦法很詳細地把這臺車的路徑去調查出來，我覺得不管是中央跟地方，到時候都會監察院見。謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員的發言。","請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}