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10:04:18","影片長度":"00:11:48","會議時間":"2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查\n(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n【二、(二)及(三)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-05","start_time":"2025-11-05T09:52:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-05T10:04:18+08:00","duration":708,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"165024","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165024","tool":"pyannote","id":"165024-pyannote"},"job_id":"61tgCZDPp9hVUe6X","queued_at":"2025-11-05 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--> 00:01:23,428\n我們的廢棄物管理階層列為必要的一個門檻也就是說地方申請以出餐方式來興辦末端的設施的時候須先證明已做到的源頭管理分類回收的量化門檻才能進到末端的方案評估所以請部長說明這是不是可行\n\n4\n00:01:24,324 --> 00:01:43,889\n委員謝謝這個其實因為委員你剛才講到一個重點就是說如果說這個量能夠的話這個都不是問題這個未來我覺得焚化爐會慢慢的減少但是現在台灣其實各個縣市因為這個焚化爐是地方的所以他在處理他要透過出差來減少他財政的負擔那如果說按照他們的這樣的一個規劃那這個費用\n\n5\n00:01:46,009 --> 00:02:14,044\n會誰來出就是地方要來出那這個就會增加地方的財務的這個成本所以基本上我們這個議題呢因為我來接觸的時候我也有了解然後我們也問了地方大概有15個縣市都反對啦所以我們現在基本上我覺得未來長期來看的話應該有機會走到這樣的一個地步但是現階段可能比較困難那當然委員說你說廢棄物的管理的階層是不是能夠更高一點點的能夠來整體來思考各個縣市來看的話這個我們會來努力\n\n6\n00:02:15,305 --> 00:02:32,471\n對你要去努力否則一直在獎勵末端的處理的話源頭都是沒有反而是源頭不去做所以如果你既然部裡邊回覆說二到三年後如果減量成效將努力減燒是不是可以有環境部提出一個\n\n7\n00:02:33,331 --> 00:02:48,000\n一板就是跨部會的整個的所謂路線圖就是把地方的那個垃圾成分調查分類積查然後再利用量契約處理這些量一個整個完整的\n\n8\n00:02:49,201 --> 00:03:03,878\n美季去做公布然后同时把达标的情形来联动到初餐优惠的适用跟强度来形成一个先减量再给力的一个明确的准则能不能做到我大概是\n\n9\n00:03:04,178 --> 00:03:22,389\n一年大概有看到一個整體統計數據知道每天那是每季能不能達到這個以我現在接觸到的數字大概是一年會有一次的統計的報告例如說我最近看到的是前一陣子討論到看到的就是去年像有些縣市的確那個量是很不夠的那可不可以再縮短一點就是半年好可以\n\n10\n00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:48,894\n部長循環經濟要落實要環境永續關鍵是在杜絕票率那國發會主責的國家永續發展獎這算是在民間評比辦理得比較好的可是其他獎項像民間團體質疑評選的門檻未跟國際的反票率的機制接軌那麼關心的就是整體企業永續資訊的揭露的一個原則機制是什麼國際趨勢要先\n\n11\n00:03:51,055 --> 00:04:17,879\n要求要先有合理的合規的一個底線再談環境的那個永續那環境部是否能夠建議並協調政府主辦的或者是共同主辦的甚至部會參與的環境相關的永續講可不可以甄列說近年一定的期間重大環境違法跟處分的排除條款跟查核機制\n\n12\n00:04:18,852 --> 00:04:46,372\n否則他得獎結果你發現他竟然事實上是有違反那不是笑話一則嗎對謝謝委員因為本部是有這樣的一個精神在本部頒發的獎項啦那別的單位呢像有些是民間的他或許跟是環境的事實上是相關的對那我也謝謝委員的建議那這個部分呢我們可能可以來研議一下是不是請他們要我們有一些指引出來請他們要照著這樣的方式來處理部長是不是可以建立跨部會\n\n13\n00:04:47,273 --> 00:05:00,771\n那個應該就是法尊要去查核的清單講像評審前能夠審查使用過去我在NCC擔任我們的外部委員的時候\n\n14\n00:05:02,967 --> 00:05:20,885\n一定會拿到勞動部對於電視台或者是拿到社政單位對於電視台的一個所謂的裁處那才可以去決定他要不要那個評鑑過不過關還有甚至才能夠拿到證照否則的話你沒有辦法知道那如果\n\n15\n00:05:21,665 --> 00:05:47,313\n讓他順利過關那表示你在支持這件事情說他環境議題做不好結果他還是可以拿到獎項而且我也希望說你們能不能充分跟民間團體來宣導跟溝通好謝謝委員我們政府部門我會來訂一個指引希望政府部門來做那民間的話如果他因為他其實有些獎項他已經是一個商業行為了商業行為了那有些人是需要這個獎項的\n\n16\n00:05:48,453 --> 00:06:07,381\n所以我們會來嘗試來定一個指引希望他們有一個規範對台灣事實上是傷害的結果他還是得獎那部長有沒有得獎或許只是結果可是現在有些企業雖然有揭露碳排跟能源使用的效能跟原料來源\n\n17\n00:06:08,121 --> 00:06:30,717\n但把台湾本地跟它在海外的混在一起外界看不出来台湾这一块到底减了多少还差多少所以民间的批评这部分批评这样子你同意吗我同意它其实可以分开的所以民间团体指出说有企业的区域数据是不清楚的所以建议未来要明确区分台湾跟海外的据点同时也要建议\n\n18\n00:06:31,297 --> 00:06:56,975\n要连续看三年它能源使用的趋势而且也有不少企业揭露的到供应链表示不是做不到是标准要更明确所以不然就像我今年处理台资企业的印尼供应链污染全责根本就是无法理清所以请问部长是可否要求企业更明确的清楚的揭露它碳排台湾跟海外的它台湾跟海外的一个分裂\n\n19\n00:06:57,796 --> 00:07:03,885\n而也要求三年的趨勢包含供應鏈再生能源的使用效率還有另外再加上供應鏈的環境\n\n20\n00:07:05,543 --> 00:07:34,588\n影響是什麼是否能夠先從我們的列管的事業或是國營事業開始要求好委員這個其實我有看過有一些很好的企業他都有把他的所有的廠的績效都把它弄出來那我也同意委員的一個看法我們會來努力因為這個有些的規範規定是經管會的那邊的要求各個企業的永續報告書那我們會來跟他們來做協商我們現在對碳中和已經有了那但是委員這個碳排介入的部分我們來努力我們來試看看\n\n21\n00:07:35,808 --> 00:07:53,137\n麻煩經濟部的那個祖密莊祖密祖密好接著要請教你就是我和環團跟印尼移工一起開了記者會印尼台資企業的員工親自到台灣來作證台灣企業跟它的供應鏈\n\n22\n00:07:54,398 --> 00:08:13,816\n侵害到勞動權益造成環境污染那我就想問經濟部你們回覆說企業表示沒有這回事是誤會公文也寫協助釐清降低起見所以要再來問三件事第一後續你到底有沒有實際去做查核你們說沒有你們在台灣說沒有真的他國外沒有嘛\n\n23\n00:08:14,697 --> 00:08:35,243\n第二經濟部有沒有能力去稽查台資企業在海外的環境跟勞動權益狀況包括我們供應鏈的影響第三面對嚴重傷害的國家形象涉及到環境污染跟供應鏈的問題經濟部是不是我就想經濟部不會只像寫公文那樣說加強宣傳就好吧\n\n24\n00:08:36,553 --> 00:08:55,049\n是謝委員的一個提醒因為我們主責的那個投資師今天沒有過來所以我會把委員的這個意見帶回去我們這集通常是所以如果你今天沒辦法回答我在這邊要求經濟部一週內因為這個記者會開很久我們到至今都還是沒有給我們答覆一週內對於我上次記者會提出來的訴求\n\n25\n00:08:55,849 --> 00:09:12,537\n那回報進度包含切人權禁止調查的機制是什麼以及國家聯絡點的設置的一個進度是我們再提供個文章再麻煩好謝謝那個環境部部長\n\n26\n00:09:14,979 --> 00:09:35,218\n上次我就要問了時間的關係今天我還是要問有關國際檢授公約談判結果部長在8月談判後的記者會做了非常多的承諾你說我們愛護地球媽媽的決心不會變政府會多管齊下結合源頭來減量環境再利用跟創新技術這你完全支持\n\n27\n00:09:35,939 --> 00:09:50,718\n那延續剛剛許燕池的一個應用我要請教兩個具體的問題第一個原生塑膠的一個減產環境部接下來有沒有規劃總量管制還是繼續交給市場轉型\n\n28\n00:09:53,181 --> 00:10:09,654\n循環署自己說說全球的原生塑膠的供應過剩價格低廉讓再生料的那個競爭力不足歐盟已經有工廠倒閉台灣業者也面臨同樣壓力那如果企業還要在國內擴廠的話環境部的態度是什麼\n\n29\n00:10:12,569 --> 00:10:33,461\n各位報告那因為這個是我們關心是環境的問題就是因為塑膠公園他是塑膠的污染啊所以我們聚焦在這個塑膠污染的問題那基本上我們是希望說這個使用再生料的話可以來這個要求企業來使用那至於那個生產部門因為那個是其他那個經濟部門的一個議題所以我們沒有在這邊來探討\n\n30\n00:10:35,987 --> 00:10:58,612\n那第二就是一次性塑膠原本在2023年就要全面禁用四項產品確定延後部長也說這是六七年前定的目標如果需要滾動修正的話這個我理解但目標不能模糊所以請問部長新一輪的管制時程什麼時候公佈新版計劃有沒有在年然後年底快到了今年的績效是否滿意\n\n31\n00:10:59,432 --> 00:11:24,765\n是好那跟我們報告那我們今年呢就是呃里程碑呃有有一個草案然後讓大家來提供意見有個許願池好那許願池也就是要呃很多這個民眾的意見那現在正在分析這個意見那我們預定是年底呢呃把這個我們的里程碑把它提出來那這邊會有依據我們國際趨勢呃最新的一個檢納目標呃來回應這個呃民眾對呃檢授的那你們新版計劃有在你了嗎是是是好\n\n32\n00:11:26,906 --> 00:11:44,205\n所以部長我非常支持你講的多管齊下可是我們要看到具體的進度表所以部長把很多事情扛在環境部上我非常肯定可是上述的議題請你們這邊給我一個完整的說明那我們當然也會跟部長站在一起來共同為環境來努力好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝林月琴委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7686\t36065\t麻煩彭部長請彭部長林委員好部長早今天我們談廢棄物處理跟循環經濟我要延續今年初公共政策網民民間團體他給你的建議那你6月也給他們的回覆我能理解不理的考量第一個如果貿然把焚化跟掩埋等末端的處理設施\n36653\t63395\t排除在出餐法重大公共建設之外地方可能會面臨到財務壓力然後技術能力的落差那當然你也提到短期不不亦完全排除末端設施的一個出餐適用可是要等到兩三年後如果減量見效的話會努力朝向那個減燒的方向不過基於這個前提我想請教的是說首先現有的審查原則如何把\n63895\t83428\t我們的廢棄物管理階層列為必要的一個門檻也就是說地方申請以出餐方式來興辦末端的設施的時候須先證明已做到的源頭管理分類回收的量化門檻才能進到末端的方案評估所以請部長說明這是不是可行\n84324\t103889\t委員謝謝 這個其實因為委員你剛才講到一個重點就是說如果說這個量能夠的話這個都不是問題這個未來我覺得焚化爐會慢慢的減少但是現在台灣其實各個縣市因為這個焚化爐是地方的所以他在處理他要透過出差來減少他財政的負擔那如果說按照他們的這樣的一個規劃那這個費用\n106009\t134044\t會誰來出就是地方要來出那這個就會增加地方的財務的這個成本所以基本上我們這個議題呢因為我來接觸的時候我也有了解然後我們也問了地方大概有15個縣市都反對啦所以我們現在基本上我覺得未來長期來看的話應該有機會走到這樣的一個地步但是現階段可能比較困難那當然委員說你說廢棄物的管理的階層是不是能夠更高一點點的能夠來整體來思考各個縣市來看的話這個我們會來努力\n135305\t152471\t對 你要去努力否則一直在獎勵末端的處理的話源頭都是沒有反而是源頭不去做所以如果你既然部裡邊回覆說二到三年後如果減量成效將努力減燒是不是可以有環境部提出一個\n153331\t168000\t一板就是跨部會的整個的所謂路線圖就是把地方的那個垃圾成分調查分類積查然後再利用量契約處理這些量一個整個完整的\n169201\t183878\t美季去做公布然后同时把达标的情形来联动到初餐优惠的适用跟强度来形成一个先减量再给力的一个明确的准则能不能做到我大概是\n184178\t202389\t一年大概有看到一個整體統計數據知道每天那是每季能不能達到這個以我現在接觸到的數字大概是一年會有一次的統計的報告例如說我最近看到的是前一陣子討論到看到的就是去年像有些縣市的確那個量是很不夠的那可不可以再縮短一點就是半年好 可以\n203720\t228894\t部長 循環經濟要落實 要環境永續關鍵是在杜絕票率那國發會主責的國家永續發展獎這算是在民間評比辦理得比較好的可是其他獎項 像民間團體質疑評選的門檻未跟國際的反票率的機制接軌那麼關心的就是整體企業永續資訊的揭露的一個原則機制是什麼國際趨勢要先\n231055\t257879\t要求要先有合理的合規的一個底線再談環境的那個永續那環境部是否能夠建議並協調政府主辦的或者是共同主辦的甚至部會參與的環境相關的永續講可不可以甄列說近年一定的期間重大環境違法跟處分的排除條款跟查核機制\n258852\t286372\t否則他得獎結果你發現他竟然事實上是有違反那不是笑話一則嗎對 謝謝委員因為本部是有這樣的一個精神在本部頒發的獎項啦那別的單位呢像有些是民間的他或許跟是環境的事實上是相關的對那我也謝謝委員的建議那這個部分呢我們可能可以來研議一下是不是請他們要我們有一些指引出來請他們要照著這樣的方式來處理部長是不是可以建立跨部會\n287273\t300771\t那個應該就是法尊要去查核的清單講像評審前能夠審查使用過去我在NCC擔任我們的外部委員的時候\n302967\t320885\t一定會拿到勞動部對於電視台或者是拿到社政單位對於電視台的一個所謂的裁處那才可以去決定他要不要那個評鑑過不過關還有甚至才能夠拿到證照否則的話你沒有辦法知道那如果\n321665\t347313\t讓他順利過關那表示你在支持這件事情說他環境議題做不好結果他還是可以拿到獎項而且我也希望說你們能不能充分跟民間團體來宣導跟溝通好 謝謝委員我們政府部門我會來訂一個指引希望政府部門來做那民間的話如果他因為他其實有些獎項他已經是一個商業行為了商業行為了那有些人是需要這個獎項的\n348453\t367381\t所以我們會來嘗試來定一個指引希望他們有一個規範對台灣事實上是傷害的結果他還是得獎那部長有沒有得獎或許只是結果可是現在有些企業雖然有揭露碳排跟能源使用的效能跟原料來源\n368121\t390717\t但把台湾本地跟它在海外的混在一起外界看不出来台湾这一块到底减了多少还差多少所以民间的批评这部分批评这样子你同意吗我同意它其实可以分开的所以民间团体指出说有企业的区域数据是不清楚的所以建议未来要明确区分台湾跟海外的据点同时也要建议\n391297\t416975\t要连续看三年它能源使用的趋势而且也有不少企业揭露的到供应链表示不是做不到是标准要更明确所以不然就像我今年处理台资企业的印尼供应链污染全责根本就是无法理清所以请问部长是可否要求企业更明确的清楚的揭露它碳排台湾跟海外的它台湾跟海外的一个分裂\n417796\t423885\t而也要求三年的趨勢包含供應鏈再生能源的使用效率還有另外再加上供應鏈的環境\n425543\t454588\t影響是什麼是否能夠先從我們的列管的事業或是國營事業開始要求好委員這個其實我有看過有一些很好的企業他都有把他的所有的廠的績效都把它弄出來那我也同意委員的一個看法我們會來努力因為這個有些的規範規定是經管會的那邊的要求各個企業的永續報告書那我們會來跟他們來做協商我們現在對碳中和已經有了那但是委員這個碳排介入的部分我們來努力我們來試看看\n455808\t473137\t麻煩經濟部的那個祖密 莊祖密祖密好 接著要請教你就是我和環團跟印尼移工一起開了記者會印尼台資企業的員工親自到台灣來作證台灣企業跟它的供應鏈\n474398\t493816\t侵害到勞動權益 造成環境污染那我就想問經濟部你們回覆說企業表示沒有這回事 是誤會公文也寫協助釐清 降低起見所以要再來問三件事第一 後續你到底有沒有實際去做查核你們說沒有 你們在台灣說沒有真的他國外沒有嘛\n494697\t515243\t第二經濟部有沒有能力去稽查台資企業在海外的環境跟勞動權益狀況包括我們供應鏈的影響第三面對嚴重傷害的國家形象涉及到環境污染跟供應鏈的問題經濟部是不是我就想經濟部不會只像寫公文那樣說加強宣傳就好吧\n516553\t535049\t是 謝委員的一個提醒因為我們主責的那個投資師今天沒有過來所以我會把委員的這個意見帶回去我們這集通常是所以如果你今天沒辦法回答我在這邊要求經濟部一週內因為這個記者會開很久我們到至今都還是沒有給我們答覆一週內對於我上次記者會提出來的訴求\n535849\t552537\t那回報進度包含切人權禁止調查的機制是什麼以及國家聯絡點的設置的一個進度是 我們再提供個文章再麻煩 好 謝謝那個環境部部長\n554979\t575218\t上次我就要問了 時間的關係今天我還是要問有關國際檢授公約談判結果部長在8月談判後的記者會做了非常多的承諾你說我們愛護地球媽媽的決心不會變政府會多管齊下結合源頭來減量環境再利用跟創新技術這你完全支持\n575939\t590718\t那延續剛剛許燕池的一個應用我要請教兩個具體的問題第一個原生塑膠的一個減產環境部接下來有沒有規劃總量管制還是繼續交給市場轉型\n593181\t609654\t循環署自己說說全球的原生塑膠的供應過剩價格低廉讓再生料的那個競爭力不足歐盟已經有工廠倒閉台灣業者也面臨同樣壓力那如果企業還要在國內擴廠的話環境部的態度是什麼\n612569\t633461\t各位報告那因為這個是我們關心是環境的問題就是因為塑膠公園他是塑膠的污染啊所以我們聚焦在這個塑膠污染的問題那基本上我們是希望說這個使用再生料的話可以來這個要求企業來使用那至於那個生產部門因為那個是其他那個經濟部門的一個議題所以我們沒有在這邊來探討\n635987\t658612\t那第二就是一次性塑膠原本在2023年就要全面禁用四項產品確定延後部長也說這是六七年前定的目標如果需要滾動修正的話這個我理解但目標不能模糊所以請問部長新一輪的管制時程什麼時候公佈新版計劃有沒有在年然後年底快到了今年的績效是否滿意\n659432\t684765\t是好那跟我們報告那我們今年呢就是呃里程碑呃有有一個草案然後讓大家來提供意見有個許願池好那許願池也就是要呃很多這個民眾的意見那現在正在分析這個意見那我們預定是年底呢呃把這個我們的里程碑把它提出來那這邊會有依據我們國際趨勢呃最新的一個檢納目標呃來回應這個呃民眾對呃檢授的那你們新版計劃有在你了嗎是是是好\n686906\t704205\t所以部長我非常支持你講的多管齊下可是我們要看到具體的進度表所以部長把很多事情扛在環境部上我非常肯定可是上述的議題請你們這邊給我一個完整的說明那我們當然也會跟部長站在一起來共同為環境來努力好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝林月琴委員發言\n","txt":"麻煩彭部長請彭部長林委員好部長早今天我們談廢棄物處理跟循環經濟我要延續今年初公共政策網民民間團體他給你的建議那你6月也給他們的回覆我能理解不理的考量第一個如果貿然把焚化跟掩埋等末端的處理設施\n排除在出餐法重大公共建設之外地方可能會面臨到財務壓力然後技術能力的落差那當然你也提到短期不不亦完全排除末端設施的一個出餐適用可是要等到兩三年後如果減量見效的話會努力朝向那個減燒的方向不過基於這個前提我想請教的是說首先現有的審查原則如何把\n我們的廢棄物管理階層列為必要的一個門檻也就是說地方申請以出餐方式來興辦末端的設施的時候須先證明已做到的源頭管理分類回收的量化門檻才能進到末端的方案評估所以請部長說明這是不是可行\n委員謝謝 這個其實因為委員你剛才講到一個重點就是說如果說這個量能夠的話這個都不是問題這個未來我覺得焚化爐會慢慢的減少但是現在台灣其實各個縣市因為這個焚化爐是地方的所以他在處理他要透過出差來減少他財政的負擔那如果說按照他們的這樣的一個規劃那這個費用\n會誰來出就是地方要來出那這個就會增加地方的財務的這個成本所以基本上我們這個議題呢因為我來接觸的時候我也有了解然後我們也問了地方大概有15個縣市都反對啦所以我們現在基本上我覺得未來長期來看的話應該有機會走到這樣的一個地步但是現階段可能比較困難那當然委員說你說廢棄物的管理的階層是不是能夠更高一點點的能夠來整體來思考各個縣市來看的話這個我們會來努力\n對 你要去努力否則一直在獎勵末端的處理的話源頭都是沒有反而是源頭不去做所以如果你既然部裡邊回覆說二到三年後如果減量成效將努力減燒是不是可以有環境部提出一個\n一板就是跨部會的整個的所謂路線圖就是把地方的那個垃圾成分調查分類積查然後再利用量契約處理這些量一個整個完整的\n美季去做公布然后同时把达标的情形来联动到初餐优惠的适用跟强度来形成一个先减量再给力的一个明确的准则能不能做到我大概是\n一年大概有看到一個整體統計數據知道每天那是每季能不能達到這個以我現在接觸到的數字大概是一年會有一次的統計的報告例如說我最近看到的是前一陣子討論到看到的就是去年像有些縣市的確那個量是很不夠的那可不可以再縮短一點就是半年好 可以\n部長 循環經濟要落實 要環境永續關鍵是在杜絕票率那國發會主責的國家永續發展獎這算是在民間評比辦理得比較好的可是其他獎項 像民間團體質疑評選的門檻未跟國際的反票率的機制接軌那麼關心的就是整體企業永續資訊的揭露的一個原則機制是什麼國際趨勢要先\n要求要先有合理的合規的一個底線再談環境的那個永續那環境部是否能夠建議並協調政府主辦的或者是共同主辦的甚至部會參與的環境相關的永續講可不可以甄列說近年一定的期間重大環境違法跟處分的排除條款跟查核機制\n否則他得獎結果你發現他竟然事實上是有違反那不是笑話一則嗎對 謝謝委員因為本部是有這樣的一個精神在本部頒發的獎項啦那別的單位呢像有些是民間的他或許跟是環境的事實上是相關的對那我也謝謝委員的建議那這個部分呢我們可能可以來研議一下是不是請他們要我們有一些指引出來請他們要照著這樣的方式來處理部長是不是可以建立跨部會\n那個應該就是法尊要去查核的清單講像評審前能夠審查使用過去我在NCC擔任我們的外部委員的時候\n一定會拿到勞動部對於電視台或者是拿到社政單位對於電視台的一個所謂的裁處那才可以去決定他要不要那個評鑑過不過關還有甚至才能夠拿到證照否則的話你沒有辦法知道那如果\n讓他順利過關那表示你在支持這件事情說他環境議題做不好結果他還是可以拿到獎項而且我也希望說你們能不能充分跟民間團體來宣導跟溝通好 謝謝委員我們政府部門我會來訂一個指引希望政府部門來做那民間的話如果他因為他其實有些獎項他已經是一個商業行為了商業行為了那有些人是需要這個獎項的\n所以我們會來嘗試來定一個指引希望他們有一個規範對台灣事實上是傷害的結果他還是得獎那部長有沒有得獎或許只是結果可是現在有些企業雖然有揭露碳排跟能源使用的效能跟原料來源\n但把台湾本地跟它在海外的混在一起外界看不出来台湾这一块到底减了多少还差多少所以民间的批评这部分批评这样子你同意吗我同意它其实可以分开的所以民间团体指出说有企业的区域数据是不清楚的所以建议未来要明确区分台湾跟海外的据点同时也要建议\n要连续看三年它能源使用的趋势而且也有不少企业揭露的到供应链表示不是做不到是标准要更明确所以不然就像我今年处理台资企业的印尼供应链污染全责根本就是无法理清所以请问部长是可否要求企业更明确的清楚的揭露它碳排台湾跟海外的它台湾跟海外的一个分裂\n而也要求三年的趨勢包含供應鏈再生能源的使用效率還有另外再加上供應鏈的環境\n影響是什麼是否能夠先從我們的列管的事業或是國營事業開始要求好委員這個其實我有看過有一些很好的企業他都有把他的所有的廠的績效都把它弄出來那我也同意委員的一個看法我們會來努力因為這個有些的規範規定是經管會的那邊的要求各個企業的永續報告書那我們會來跟他們來做協商我們現在對碳中和已經有了那但是委員這個碳排介入的部分我們來努力我們來試看看\n麻煩經濟部的那個祖密 莊祖密祖密好 接著要請教你就是我和環團跟印尼移工一起開了記者會印尼台資企業的員工親自到台灣來作證台灣企業跟它的供應鏈\n侵害到勞動權益 造成環境污染那我就想問經濟部你們回覆說企業表示沒有這回事 是誤會公文也寫協助釐清 降低起見所以要再來問三件事第一 後續你到底有沒有實際去做查核你們說沒有 你們在台灣說沒有真的他國外沒有嘛\n第二經濟部有沒有能力去稽查台資企業在海外的環境跟勞動權益狀況包括我們供應鏈的影響第三面對嚴重傷害的國家形象涉及到環境污染跟供應鏈的問題經濟部是不是我就想經濟部不會只像寫公文那樣說加強宣傳就好吧\n是 謝委員的一個提醒因為我們主責的那個投資師今天沒有過來所以我會把委員的這個意見帶回去我們這集通常是所以如果你今天沒辦法回答我在這邊要求經濟部一週內因為這個記者會開很久我們到至今都還是沒有給我們答覆一週內對於我上次記者會提出來的訴求\n那回報進度包含切人權禁止調查的機制是什麼以及國家聯絡點的設置的一個進度是 我們再提供個文章再麻煩 好 謝謝那個環境部部長\n上次我就要問了 時間的關係今天我還是要問有關國際檢授公約談判結果部長在8月談判後的記者會做了非常多的承諾你說我們愛護地球媽媽的決心不會變政府會多管齊下結合源頭來減量環境再利用跟創新技術這你完全支持\n那延續剛剛許燕池的一個應用我要請教兩個具體的問題第一個原生塑膠的一個減產環境部接下來有沒有規劃總量管制還是繼續交給市場轉型\n循環署自己說說全球的原生塑膠的供應過剩價格低廉讓再生料的那個競爭力不足歐盟已經有工廠倒閉台灣業者也面臨同樣壓力那如果企業還要在國內擴廠的話環境部的態度是什麼\n各位報告那因為這個是我們關心是環境的問題就是因為塑膠公園他是塑膠的污染啊所以我們聚焦在這個塑膠污染的問題那基本上我們是希望說這個使用再生料的話可以來這個要求企業來使用那至於那個生產部門因為那個是其他那個經濟部門的一個議題所以我們沒有在這邊來探討\n那第二就是一次性塑膠原本在2023年就要全面禁用四項產品確定延後部長也說這是六七年前定的目標如果需要滾動修正的話這個我理解但目標不能模糊所以請問部長新一輪的管制時程什麼時候公佈新版計劃有沒有在年然後年底快到了今年的績效是否滿意\n是好那跟我們報告那我們今年呢就是呃里程碑呃有有一個草案然後讓大家來提供意見有個許願池好那許願池也就是要呃很多這個民眾的意見那現在正在分析這個意見那我們預定是年底呢呃把這個我們的里程碑把它提出來那這邊會有依據我們國際趨勢呃最新的一個檢納目標呃來回應這個呃民眾對呃檢授的那你們新版計劃有在你了嗎是是是好\n所以部長我非常支持你講的多管齊下可是我們要看到具體的進度表所以部長把很多事情扛在環境部上我非常肯定可是上述的議題請你們這邊給我一個完整的說明那我們當然也會跟部長站在一起來共同為環境來努力好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝林月琴委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.686 --> 00:36.065\n麻煩彭部長請彭部長林委員好部長早今天我們談廢棄物處理跟循環經濟我要延續今年初公共政策網民民間團體他給你的建議那你6月也給他們的回覆我能理解不理的考量第一個如果貿然把焚化跟掩埋等末端的處理設施\n\n00:36.653 --> 01:03.395\n排除在出餐法重大公共建設之外地方可能會面臨到財務壓力然後技術能力的落差那當然你也提到短期不不亦完全排除末端設施的一個出餐適用可是要等到兩三年後如果減量見效的話會努力朝向那個減燒的方向不過基於這個前提我想請教的是說首先現有的審查原則如何把\n\n01:03.895 --> 01:23.428\n我們的廢棄物管理階層列為必要的一個門檻也就是說地方申請以出餐方式來興辦末端的設施的時候須先證明已做到的源頭管理分類回收的量化門檻才能進到末端的方案評估所以請部長說明這是不是可行\n\n01:24.324 --> 01:43.889\n委員謝謝這個其實因為委員你剛才講到一個重點就是說如果說這個量能夠的話這個都不是問題這個未來我覺得焚化爐會慢慢的減少但是現在台灣其實各個縣市因為這個焚化爐是地方的所以他在處理他要透過出差來減少他財政的負擔那如果說按照他們的這樣的一個規劃那這個費用\n\n01:46.009 --> 02:14.044\n會誰來出就是地方要來出那這個就會增加地方的財務的這個成本所以基本上我們這個議題呢因為我來接觸的時候我也有了解然後我們也問了地方大概有15個縣市都反對啦所以我們現在基本上我覺得未來長期來看的話應該有機會走到這樣的一個地步但是現階段可能比較困難那當然委員說你說廢棄物的管理的階層是不是能夠更高一點點的能夠來整體來思考各個縣市來看的話這個我們會來努力\n\n02:15.305 --> 02:32.471\n對你要去努力否則一直在獎勵末端的處理的話源頭都是沒有反而是源頭不去做所以如果你既然部裡邊回覆說二到三年後如果減量成效將努力減燒是不是可以有環境部提出一個\n\n02:33.331 --> 02:48.000\n一板就是跨部會的整個的所謂路線圖就是把地方的那個垃圾成分調查分類積查然後再利用量契約處理這些量一個整個完整的\n\n02:49.201 --> 03:03.878\n美季去做公布然后同时把达标的情形来联动到初餐优惠的适用跟强度来形成一个先减量再给力的一个明确的准则能不能做到我大概是\n\n03:04.178 --> 03:22.389\n一年大概有看到一個整體統計數據知道每天那是每季能不能達到這個以我現在接觸到的數字大概是一年會有一次的統計的報告例如說我最近看到的是前一陣子討論到看到的就是去年像有些縣市的確那個量是很不夠的那可不可以再縮短一點就是半年好可以\n\n03:23.720 --> 03:48.894\n部長循環經濟要落實要環境永續關鍵是在杜絕票率那國發會主責的國家永續發展獎這算是在民間評比辦理得比較好的可是其他獎項像民間團體質疑評選的門檻未跟國際的反票率的機制接軌那麼關心的就是整體企業永續資訊的揭露的一個原則機制是什麼國際趨勢要先\n\n03:51.055 --> 04:17.879\n要求要先有合理的合規的一個底線再談環境的那個永續那環境部是否能夠建議並協調政府主辦的或者是共同主辦的甚至部會參與的環境相關的永續講可不可以甄列說近年一定的期間重大環境違法跟處分的排除條款跟查核機制\n\n04:18.852 --> 04:46.372\n否則他得獎結果你發現他竟然事實上是有違反那不是笑話一則嗎對謝謝委員因為本部是有這樣的一個精神在本部頒發的獎項啦那別的單位呢像有些是民間的他或許跟是環境的事實上是相關的對那我也謝謝委員的建議那這個部分呢我們可能可以來研議一下是不是請他們要我們有一些指引出來請他們要照著這樣的方式來處理部長是不是可以建立跨部會\n\n04:47.273 --> 05:00.771\n那個應該就是法尊要去查核的清單講像評審前能夠審查使用過去我在NCC擔任我們的外部委員的時候\n\n05:02.967 --> 05:20.885\n一定會拿到勞動部對於電視台或者是拿到社政單位對於電視台的一個所謂的裁處那才可以去決定他要不要那個評鑑過不過關還有甚至才能夠拿到證照否則的話你沒有辦法知道那如果\n\n05:21.665 --> 05:47.313\n讓他順利過關那表示你在支持這件事情說他環境議題做不好結果他還是可以拿到獎項而且我也希望說你們能不能充分跟民間團體來宣導跟溝通好謝謝委員我們政府部門我會來訂一個指引希望政府部門來做那民間的話如果他因為他其實有些獎項他已經是一個商業行為了商業行為了那有些人是需要這個獎項的\n\n05:48.453 --> 06:07.381\n所以我們會來嘗試來定一個指引希望他們有一個規範對台灣事實上是傷害的結果他還是得獎那部長有沒有得獎或許只是結果可是現在有些企業雖然有揭露碳排跟能源使用的效能跟原料來源\n\n06:08.121 --> 06:30.717\n但把台湾本地跟它在海外的混在一起外界看不出来台湾这一块到底减了多少还差多少所以民间的批评这部分批评这样子你同意吗我同意它其实可以分开的所以民间团体指出说有企业的区域数据是不清楚的所以建议未来要明确区分台湾跟海外的据点同时也要建议\n\n06:31.297 --> 06:56.975\n要连续看三年它能源使用的趋势而且也有不少企业揭露的到供应链表示不是做不到是标准要更明确所以不然就像我今年处理台资企业的印尼供应链污染全责根本就是无法理清所以请问部长是可否要求企业更明确的清楚的揭露它碳排台湾跟海外的它台湾跟海外的一个分裂\n\n06:57.796 --> 07:03.885\n而也要求三年的趨勢包含供應鏈再生能源的使用效率還有另外再加上供應鏈的環境\n\n07:05.543 --> 07:34.588\n影響是什麼是否能夠先從我們的列管的事業或是國營事業開始要求好委員這個其實我有看過有一些很好的企業他都有把他的所有的廠的績效都把它弄出來那我也同意委員的一個看法我們會來努力因為這個有些的規範規定是經管會的那邊的要求各個企業的永續報告書那我們會來跟他們來做協商我們現在對碳中和已經有了那但是委員這個碳排介入的部分我們來努力我們來試看看\n\n07:35.808 --> 07:53.137\n麻煩經濟部的那個祖密莊祖密祖密好接著要請教你就是我和環團跟印尼移工一起開了記者會印尼台資企業的員工親自到台灣來作證台灣企業跟它的供應鏈\n\n07:54.398 --> 08:13.816\n侵害到勞動權益造成環境污染那我就想問經濟部你們回覆說企業表示沒有這回事是誤會公文也寫協助釐清降低起見所以要再來問三件事第一後續你到底有沒有實際去做查核你們說沒有你們在台灣說沒有真的他國外沒有嘛\n\n08:14.697 --> 08:35.243\n第二經濟部有沒有能力去稽查台資企業在海外的環境跟勞動權益狀況包括我們供應鏈的影響第三面對嚴重傷害的國家形象涉及到環境污染跟供應鏈的問題經濟部是不是我就想經濟部不會只像寫公文那樣說加強宣傳就好吧\n\n08:36.553 --> 08:55.049\n是謝委員的一個提醒因為我們主責的那個投資師今天沒有過來所以我會把委員的這個意見帶回去我們這集通常是所以如果你今天沒辦法回答我在這邊要求經濟部一週內因為這個記者會開很久我們到至今都還是沒有給我們答覆一週內對於我上次記者會提出來的訴求\n\n08:55.849 --> 09:12.537\n那回報進度包含切人權禁止調查的機制是什麼以及國家聯絡點的設置的一個進度是我們再提供個文章再麻煩好謝謝那個環境部部長\n\n09:14.979 --> 09:35.218\n上次我就要問了時間的關係今天我還是要問有關國際檢授公約談判結果部長在8月談判後的記者會做了非常多的承諾你說我們愛護地球媽媽的決心不會變政府會多管齊下結合源頭來減量環境再利用跟創新技術這你完全支持\n\n09:35.939 --> 09:50.718\n那延續剛剛許燕池的一個應用我要請教兩個具體的問題第一個原生塑膠的一個減產環境部接下來有沒有規劃總量管制還是繼續交給市場轉型\n\n09:53.181 --> 10:09.654\n循環署自己說說全球的原生塑膠的供應過剩價格低廉讓再生料的那個競爭力不足歐盟已經有工廠倒閉台灣業者也面臨同樣壓力那如果企業還要在國內擴廠的話環境部的態度是什麼\n\n10:12.569 --> 10:33.461\n各位報告那因為這個是我們關心是環境的問題就是因為塑膠公園他是塑膠的污染啊所以我們聚焦在這個塑膠污染的問題那基本上我們是希望說這個使用再生料的話可以來這個要求企業來使用那至於那個生產部門因為那個是其他那個經濟部門的一個議題所以我們沒有在這邊來探討\n\n10:35.987 --> 10:58.612\n那第二就是一次性塑膠原本在2023年就要全面禁用四項產品確定延後部長也說這是六七年前定的目標如果需要滾動修正的話這個我理解但目標不能模糊所以請問部長新一輪的管制時程什麼時候公佈新版計劃有沒有在年然後年底快到了今年的績效是否滿意\n\n10:59.432 --> 11:24.765\n是好那跟我們報告那我們今年呢就是呃里程碑呃有有一個草案然後讓大家來提供意見有個許願池好那許願池也就是要呃很多這個民眾的意見那現在正在分析這個意見那我們預定是年底呢呃把這個我們的里程碑把它提出來那這邊會有依據我們國際趨勢呃最新的一個檢納目標呃來回應這個呃民眾對呃檢授的那你們新版計劃有在你了嗎是是是好\n\n11:26.906 --> 11:44.205\n所以部長我非常支持你講的多管齊下可是我們要看到具體的進度表所以部長把很多事情扛在環境部上我非常肯定可是上述的議題請你們這邊給我一個完整的說明那我們當然也會跟部長站在一起來共同為環境來努力好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝林月琴委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.686,"end":36.065,"text":"麻煩彭部長請彭部長林委員好部長早今天我們談廢棄物處理跟循環經濟我要延續今年初公共政策網民民間團體他給你的建議那你6月也給他們的回覆我能理解不理的考量第一個如果貿然把焚化跟掩埋等末端的處理設施"},{"start":36.653,"end":63.395,"text":"排除在出餐法重大公共建設之外地方可能會面臨到財務壓力然後技術能力的落差那當然你也提到短期不不亦完全排除末端設施的一個出餐適用可是要等到兩三年後如果減量見效的話會努力朝向那個減燒的方向不過基於這個前提我想請教的是說首先現有的審查原則如何把"},{"start":63.895,"end":83.428,"text":"我們的廢棄物管理階層列為必要的一個門檻也就是說地方申請以出餐方式來興辦末端的設施的時候須先證明已做到的源頭管理分類回收的量化門檻才能進到末端的方案評估所以請部長說明這是不是可行"},{"start":84.324,"end":103.889,"text":"委員謝謝 這個其實因為委員你剛才講到一個重點就是說如果說這個量能夠的話這個都不是問題這個未來我覺得焚化爐會慢慢的減少但是現在台灣其實各個縣市因為這個焚化爐是地方的所以他在處理他要透過出差來減少他財政的負擔那如果說按照他們的這樣的一個規劃那這個費用"},{"start":106.009,"end":134.044,"text":"會誰來出就是地方要來出那這個就會增加地方的財務的這個成本所以基本上我們這個議題呢因為我來接觸的時候我也有了解然後我們也問了地方大概有15個縣市都反對啦所以我們現在基本上我覺得未來長期來看的話應該有機會走到這樣的一個地步但是現階段可能比較困難那當然委員說你說廢棄物的管理的階層是不是能夠更高一點點的能夠來整體來思考各個縣市來看的話這個我們會來努力"},{"start":135.305,"end":152.471,"text":"對 你要去努力否則一直在獎勵末端的處理的話源頭都是沒有反而是源頭不去做所以如果你既然部裡邊回覆說二到三年後如果減量成效將努力減燒是不是可以有環境部提出一個"},{"start":153.331,"end":168,"text":"一板就是跨部會的整個的所謂路線圖就是把地方的那個垃圾成分調查分類積查然後再利用量契約處理這些量一個整個完整的"},{"start":169.201,"end":183.878,"text":"美季去做公布然后同时把达标的情形来联动到初餐优惠的适用跟强度来形成一个先减量再给力的一个明确的准则能不能做到我大概是"},{"start":184.178,"end":202.389,"text":"一年大概有看到一個整體統計數據知道每天那是每季能不能達到這個以我現在接觸到的數字大概是一年會有一次的統計的報告例如說我最近看到的是前一陣子討論到看到的就是去年像有些縣市的確那個量是很不夠的那可不可以再縮短一點就是半年好 可以"},{"start":203.72,"end":228.894,"text":"部長 循環經濟要落實 要環境永續關鍵是在杜絕票率那國發會主責的國家永續發展獎這算是在民間評比辦理得比較好的可是其他獎項 像民間團體質疑評選的門檻未跟國際的反票率的機制接軌那麼關心的就是整體企業永續資訊的揭露的一個原則機制是什麼國際趨勢要先"},{"start":231.055,"end":257.879,"text":"要求要先有合理的合規的一個底線再談環境的那個永續那環境部是否能夠建議並協調政府主辦的或者是共同主辦的甚至部會參與的環境相關的永續講可不可以甄列說近年一定的期間重大環境違法跟處分的排除條款跟查核機制"},{"start":258.852,"end":286.372,"text":"否則他得獎結果你發現他竟然事實上是有違反那不是笑話一則嗎對 謝謝委員因為本部是有這樣的一個精神在本部頒發的獎項啦那別的單位呢像有些是民間的他或許跟是環境的事實上是相關的對那我也謝謝委員的建議那這個部分呢我們可能可以來研議一下是不是請他們要我們有一些指引出來請他們要照著這樣的方式來處理部長是不是可以建立跨部會"},{"start":287.273,"end":300.771,"text":"那個應該就是法尊要去查核的清單講像評審前能夠審查使用過去我在NCC擔任我們的外部委員的時候"},{"start":302.967,"end":320.885,"text":"一定會拿到勞動部對於電視台或者是拿到社政單位對於電視台的一個所謂的裁處那才可以去決定他要不要那個評鑑過不過關還有甚至才能夠拿到證照否則的話你沒有辦法知道那如果"},{"start":321.665,"end":347.313,"text":"讓他順利過關那表示你在支持這件事情說他環境議題做不好結果他還是可以拿到獎項而且我也希望說你們能不能充分跟民間團體來宣導跟溝通好 謝謝委員我們政府部門我會來訂一個指引希望政府部門來做那民間的話如果他因為他其實有些獎項他已經是一個商業行為了商業行為了那有些人是需要這個獎項的"},{"start":348.453,"end":367.381,"text":"所以我們會來嘗試來定一個指引希望他們有一個規範對台灣事實上是傷害的結果他還是得獎那部長有沒有得獎或許只是結果可是現在有些企業雖然有揭露碳排跟能源使用的效能跟原料來源"},{"start":368.121,"end":390.717,"text":"但把台湾本地跟它在海外的混在一起外界看不出来台湾这一块到底减了多少还差多少所以民间的批评这部分批评这样子你同意吗我同意它其实可以分开的所以民间团体指出说有企业的区域数据是不清楚的所以建议未来要明确区分台湾跟海外的据点同时也要建议"},{"start":391.297,"end":416.975,"text":"要连续看三年它能源使用的趋势而且也有不少企业揭露的到供应链表示不是做不到是标准要更明确所以不然就像我今年处理台资企业的印尼供应链污染全责根本就是无法理清所以请问部长是可否要求企业更明确的清楚的揭露它碳排台湾跟海外的它台湾跟海外的一个分裂"},{"start":417.796,"end":423.885,"text":"而也要求三年的趨勢包含供應鏈再生能源的使用效率還有另外再加上供應鏈的環境"},{"start":425.543,"end":454.588,"text":"影響是什麼是否能夠先從我們的列管的事業或是國營事業開始要求好委員這個其實我有看過有一些很好的企業他都有把他的所有的廠的績效都把它弄出來那我也同意委員的一個看法我們會來努力因為這個有些的規範規定是經管會的那邊的要求各個企業的永續報告書那我們會來跟他們來做協商我們現在對碳中和已經有了那但是委員這個碳排介入的部分我們來努力我們來試看看"},{"start":455.808,"end":473.137,"text":"麻煩經濟部的那個祖密 莊祖密祖密好 接著要請教你就是我和環團跟印尼移工一起開了記者會印尼台資企業的員工親自到台灣來作證台灣企業跟它的供應鏈"},{"start":474.398,"end":493.816,"text":"侵害到勞動權益 造成環境污染那我就想問經濟部你們回覆說企業表示沒有這回事 是誤會公文也寫協助釐清 降低起見所以要再來問三件事第一 後續你到底有沒有實際去做查核你們說沒有 你們在台灣說沒有真的他國外沒有嘛"},{"start":494.697,"end":515.243,"text":"第二經濟部有沒有能力去稽查台資企業在海外的環境跟勞動權益狀況包括我們供應鏈的影響第三面對嚴重傷害的國家形象涉及到環境污染跟供應鏈的問題經濟部是不是我就想經濟部不會只像寫公文那樣說加強宣傳就好吧"},{"start":516.553,"end":535.049,"text":"是 謝委員的一個提醒因為我們主責的那個投資師今天沒有過來所以我會把委員的這個意見帶回去我們這集通常是所以如果你今天沒辦法回答我在這邊要求經濟部一週內因為這個記者會開很久我們到至今都還是沒有給我們答覆一週內對於我上次記者會提出來的訴求"},{"start":535.849,"end":552.537,"text":"那回報進度包含切人權禁止調查的機制是什麼以及國家聯絡點的設置的一個進度是 我們再提供個文章再麻煩 好 謝謝那個環境部部長"},{"start":554.979,"end":575.218,"text":"上次我就要問了 時間的關係今天我還是要問有關國際檢授公約談判結果部長在8月談判後的記者會做了非常多的承諾你說我們愛護地球媽媽的決心不會變政府會多管齊下結合源頭來減量環境再利用跟創新技術這你完全支持"},{"start":575.939,"end":590.718,"text":"那延續剛剛許燕池的一個應用我要請教兩個具體的問題第一個原生塑膠的一個減產環境部接下來有沒有規劃總量管制還是繼續交給市場轉型"},{"start":593.181,"end":609.654,"text":"循環署自己說說全球的原生塑膠的供應過剩價格低廉讓再生料的那個競爭力不足歐盟已經有工廠倒閉台灣業者也面臨同樣壓力那如果企業還要在國內擴廠的話環境部的態度是什麼"},{"start":612.569,"end":633.461,"text":"各位報告那因為這個是我們關心是環境的問題就是因為塑膠公園他是塑膠的污染啊所以我們聚焦在這個塑膠污染的問題那基本上我們是希望說這個使用再生料的話可以來這個要求企業來使用那至於那個生產部門因為那個是其他那個經濟部門的一個議題所以我們沒有在這邊來探討"},{"start":635.987,"end":658.612,"text":"那第二就是一次性塑膠原本在2023年就要全面禁用四項產品確定延後部長也說這是六七年前定的目標如果需要滾動修正的話這個我理解但目標不能模糊所以請問部長新一輪的管制時程什麼時候公佈新版計劃有沒有在年然後年底快到了今年的績效是否滿意"},{"start":659.432,"end":684.765,"text":"是好那跟我們報告那我們今年呢就是呃里程碑呃有有一個草案然後讓大家來提供意見有個許願池好那許願池也就是要呃很多這個民眾的意見那現在正在分析這個意見那我們預定是年底呢呃把這個我們的里程碑把它提出來那這邊會有依據我們國際趨勢呃最新的一個檢納目標呃來回應這個呃民眾對呃檢授的那你們新版計劃有在你了嗎是是是好"},{"start":686.906,"end":704.205,"text":"所以部長我非常支持你講的多管齊下可是我們要看到具體的進度表所以部長把很多事情扛在環境部上我非常肯定可是上述的議題請你們這邊給我一個完整的說明那我們當然也會跟部長站在一起來共同為環境來努力好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝林月琴委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":530,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時52分）麻煩彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。今天我們談廢棄物處理跟循環經濟，我要延續今年初在公共政策網路參與平臺民間團體給你的建議，你6月也給他們回復，我能理解部裡的考量，第一個，如果貿然把焚化跟掩埋等末端處理設施排除在促參法的重大公共建設之外，地方可能會面臨到財務壓力以及技術能力的落差；當然你也提到短期亦完全排除末端設施的促參適用，要等到兩、三年後，如果減量見效的話，會努力朝向減燒的方向。不過基於這個前提，我想請教的是，首先現有的審查原則是如何把廢棄物管理階層列為必要的門檻？也就是說地方申請以促參方式興辦末端設施，需先證明已做到源頭管理、分類回收的量化門檻，才能進到末端的方案評估，所以請部長說明這是不是可行。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，謝謝，因為委員你剛才講到一個重點，就是如果量能夠的話，這都不是問題，我覺得未來焚化爐會慢慢地減少，但是現在臺灣其實各個縣市，因為焚化爐是地方的，所以它要透過促參來減少財政負擔，如果按照他們的規劃，這個費用會由誰來出？就是地方要來出，這就會增加地方的財務成本。基本上這個議題，因為我來接觸的時候，我有了解，然後我們也問了地方，大概有15個縣市都反對，我覺得以未來長期來看的話，應該有機會走到這樣的地步，但是現階段可能比較困難。當然委員說廢棄物的管理階層是不是能夠更高一點點，能夠各個縣市整體來思考、來看的話，這個我們會來努力。"],["林委員月琴：對，你要去努力，否則一直在獎勵末端的處理，反而是源頭不去做。既然部裡面回復說二到三年後若減量有成效，將努力減燒，是不是可以由環境部提出一版跨部會的整個路線圖？把地方垃圾的成分調查、分類稽查，再利用契約處理這些量，每季公布完整的，同時把達標情形連動到促參優惠的適用跟強度，形成「先減量、再給利」一個明確地準則，能不能做到？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我大概是一年有看到一個整體統計數據才會知道每天，那每季能不能達到？以我現在接觸到的數字，大概是一年會有一次統計的報告，我最近看到的就是去年像有些縣市的確那個量能是很不夠的。"],["林委員月琴：那可不可以再縮短一點，就是半年。"],["彭部長啓明：好，可以！"],["林委員月琴：部長，循環經濟要落實、要環境永續，關鍵是在杜絕漂綠，國發會主責的國家永續發展獎算是在民間評比辦理比較好的，可是其他獎項遭民間團體質疑，評選的門檻未跟國際反漂綠的機制接軌，要關心的就是整體企業永續資訊揭露的原則、機制是什麼？國際趨勢要求要先有合理的、合規的底線，再談環境的永續。環境部是否能夠建議並協調政府主辦的或共同主辦的，甚至部會參與的環境相關永續獎，可不可以增列近年一定的期間，重大環境違法跟處分的排除條款與查核機制？否則它得獎，結果你竟然發現它事實上是有違法，那不是笑話一則嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，在本部頒發的獎項是有這樣的精神，那別的單位，像有些是民間的，或許……"],["林委員月琴：可是事實上它跟環境是相關的。"],["彭部長啓明：對，我也謝謝委員的建議，這個部分我們可能可以來研議是不是有一些指引出來，請他們要照著這樣的方式來做。"],["林委員月琴：部長，是不是可以建立跨部會……應該叫做法遵要去查核的清單，供獎項評審前能夠審查使用。過去我在NCC擔任外部委員的時候，也一定會拿著勞動部對電視臺，或是拿到社政單位對於電視臺一個所謂的裁處，才可以去決定評鑑過不過關，甚至才能夠拿到證照。否則的話，你沒有辦法知道，如果讓它順利過，不就表示你在支持這件事情，說它環境議題做不好，結果它還是可以拿到獎項，而且我也希望你能不能充分跟民間團體來宣導跟溝通？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員，我會來訂一個指引，希望政府部門來做；民間的話，因為其實有些獎項已經是一個商業行為了，有些人是需要這個獎項的，所以我們會嘗試來訂一個指引希望……"],["林委員月琴：它可能在環境議題上對臺灣事實上是傷害的，結果它還是得獎。"],["彭部長啓明：對！"],["林委員月琴：部長，有沒有得獎或許只是結果，可是現在有些企業雖然有揭露碳排、能源使用的效能跟原料來源，但把臺灣本地跟它在海外的混在一起，外界看不出臺灣這一塊到底減了多少？還差多少？所以針對民間的批評，這部分你同意嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我同意，它其實可以分開的。"],["林委員月琴：對，所以民間指出有企業的區域數據是不清楚的，所以建議未來要明確區分臺灣跟海外的據點，同時也建議要連續看3年能源使用的趨勢，而且也有不少企業揭露到供應鏈，表示不是做不到，是標準要更明確，不然就像我今年處理台資企業的印尼供應鏈污染，權責根本就是無法釐清。所以請問部長，可否要求企業更明確地、清楚地揭露它在臺灣跟海外的碳排分列，而且也要求3年的趨勢，包括供應鏈、再生能源的使用效率，另外再加上供應鏈對環境影響是什麼，是否能夠先從我們列管的事業或是國營事業開始要求？"],["彭部長啓明：好，委員，其實我看過有些很好的企業都有把它所有廠的績效都弄出來，我也同意委員的看法，我們會來努力，因為這有些規範、規定是金管會要求各個企業的永續報告書，我們會來跟金管會協商，我們現在對碳中和已經有了，但是委員針對碳排揭露的部分，我們來努力。"],["林委員月琴：是，要麻煩。","再麻煩經濟部莊主秘。主秘，接著要請教你，我和環團跟印尼移工一起開了記者會，印尼台資企業的員工親自到臺灣來作證，臺灣企業跟它的供應鏈侵害到勞動權益，造成環境污染。我就想問經濟部，你們回復：企業表示沒有這回事，是誤會；公文也寫協助釐清，盼降低歧見。所以要再來問三件事：第一，後續到底有沒有實際去做查核？你們說在臺灣沒有，在國外真的沒有嗎？第二，經濟部有沒有能力去稽查台資企業在海外環境跟勞動權益的狀況，包括我們供應鏈的影響？第三，面對嚴重傷害了國家形象、涉及到環境污染跟供應鏈的問題，我就在想經濟部不會只像寫公文那樣加強宣傳就好吧？"],["莊主任秘書銘池：謝謝委員的提醒，因為我們主責的投資司今天沒有過來，所以我會把委員的意見帶回去，我們再請投資司……"],["林委員月琴：如果你今天沒辦法回答，我在這邊要求經濟部一週內，因為這個記者會開很久了，至今都還是沒有給我們答復。一週內回報進度，對於我上次記者會提出來的訴求，包含企業人權盡職調查的機制是什麼？以及國家聯絡點設置的進度。"],["莊主任秘書銘池：是，我們再提供資料給委員。"],["林委員月琴：再麻煩，謝謝。","環境部部長，上次我就要問，因為時間的關係，今天我還是要問有關國際減塑公約談判結果，部長在8月談判後的記者會做了非常多的承諾，你說：我們愛護地球，媽媽的決心不會變，政府會多管齊下，結合源頭來減量，而環境再利用跟創新技術會完全支持。延續剛剛許願池的應用，我要請教兩個具體的問題，第一個，關於原生塑膠減產，環境部接下來有沒有規劃總量管制，還是繼續交給市場轉型？循環署自己說全球原生塑膠的供應過剩、價格低廉，讓再生料的競爭力不足，歐盟已經有工廠倒閉，臺灣業者也面臨同樣的壓力，如果企業還要在國內擴廠的話，環境部的態度是什麼？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：跟委員報告，我們關心的是環境的問題，因為塑膠公約是塑膠的污染，所以我們聚焦在塑膠污染的問題，基本上，我們是希望使用再生料的話，可以要求企業來使用，至於生產部門，因為那是其他經濟部門的議題，所以我們沒有在這邊來探討。"],["林委員月琴：好，第二，一次性塑膠原本在2023年就要全面禁用4項產品，已確定延後，部長也說這是6、7年前訂的目標，如果需要滾動修正的話，這個我理解，但目標不能模糊。所以請問部長，新一輪的管制時程什麼時候公布？新版計畫有沒有在擬？年底快到了，今年的績效是否滿意？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：跟委員報告，我們今年的里程碑有一個草案，讓大家來提供意見、有個許願池，因此有很多民眾的意見，現在正在分析這個意見，我們預定是年底把里程碑提出來，裡面會依據國際趨勢最新的減量目標來回應民眾對減塑的訴求。"],["林委員月琴：你們新版計畫有在擬了嗎？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：是！"],["彭部長啓明：已經有在擬了。"],["林委員月琴：好，所以部長我非常支持你講的多管齊下，可是我們要看到具體的進度表，所以部長把很多事情扛在環境部上，我非常肯定，可是上述的議題請你們給我一個完整的說明，我們當然也會跟部長站在一起，共同為環境來努力，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員發言。","請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}