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10:15:47","影片長度":"00:11:22","會議時間":"2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查\n(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n【二、(二)及(三)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-05","start_time":"2025-11-05T10:04:25+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-05T10:15:47+08:00","duration":682,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"165025","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165025","tool":"pyannote","id":"165025-pyannote"},"job_id":"bcRZUmEx6AGTwSOd","queued_at":"2025-11-05 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 676.922, \"end\": 677.082, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"惠\", \"start\": 677.082, \"end\": 677.183, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 677.183, \"end\": 677.283, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 677.283, \"end\": 677.303, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,170 --> 00:00:19,666\n謝謝主席我想請彭部長還有經濟部的莊主密請彭部長跟莊主密部長好上次跟您有一些交流後來因為現在國人真的很關心光電板的回收所以剛好今天經濟部也在對不起\n\n2\n00:00:22,176 --> 00:00:48,818\n幫我按下一張好上次經濟部有回函給我們辦公室嘛他提到說風災以後大量的廢棄光電板處理這個追蹤序號已經是不可行因為怕有一些傳染病等等的並且環境部建議天災之下已改用重量為基礎來做回收以提升效率我在這邊只是想要追說後來您跟經濟部協商之後的結果如何\n\n3\n00:00:50,019 --> 00:01:09,694\n報告委員謝謝委員那時候提出的一個看法那我前幾天也特別請我同仁來然後看我們跟經濟部合作那個系統那的確33個案場裡面大概有16個案場他的資料已經上來了但是有幾個很大量的都幾萬片的以上還沒有完全上傳因為那個是廠商他要把他每一個光電板的序號\n\n4\n00:01:10,555 --> 00:01:29,476\nKeyin進去那個其實很廢時啦那我有跟他們講說可不可以P字檔一次進來那這個還要需要一點點作業時間那我們已經請這個同仁把這個光電板大概多少片他的去化到哪裡整個大量到哪裡會跟委員報告那其他有一些案例已經做完了我會再跟他們委員可以知道\n\n5\n00:01:31,343 --> 00:01:51,575\n這邊是您剛講的這傳統我們如果是一片光電板它的年限已到它在裝上去之前它要先上網登錄它的序號然後把它裝上去它要回收前它再上網登錄一次它的序號再把它回收可是我有注意到最近的新聞不管是經濟部或是環境部都說輕運計畫回收計畫其實進度99%都已經完成了\n\n6\n00:01:56,658 --> 00:02:20,694\n所以聽起來您剛講的這個大批量的序號要把它輸入是不是有可能已經不可行不會不會就是說整個的量因為它每一片都有一個序號在上面然後但是它一個廠商一個去登錄一個登錄它要花時間它內部要先整理因為十幾萬片幾萬片啦齁啊其實目前呢這個它是屬於不是這種所謂的自然淘汰的是屬於\n\n7\n00:02:21,314 --> 00:02:45,389\n突發狀況的那他其實也要進到這個系統去做一個申報所以我們還在等他但是我們委員你說的事情其實已經在進行當中了我知道但我們想知道的是你這個本來的流程是不是會要有另外一個流程是因應突然有大量的光電板需要回收因為過去從來沒有過這樣的經驗所以我的意思說未來你會不會有一個新的流程\n\n8\n00:02:46,009 --> 00:02:57,883\n其實經濟部我所知道經濟部那邊他針對這個光電板每一個序號的管理他們也有一些精進的計畫那我們也在等他們因為未來我希望可以更及時的在數字上面可以更借鑒的更順利\n\n9\n00:02:58,709 --> 00:03:25,861\n所以之後會有再有一份新的報告是嗎這可能要一點時間因為我知道他們他們的數位系統要全面的大更新因為現在其實keyin的都是要手動的因為我自己印象我可以用P字檔直接上去一下就解決了可是他們一片一片的key那個要key很久啊這個幾萬片所以我們是希望他們可以陸續的解決那這個呢其實就可以先到譬如說我們這次處理這個廚藝的這個真主這個其實我們可不可以用數位化可以來處理\n\n10\n00:03:26,641 --> 00:03:48,565\n但是因為您實際去看的確是有光電板下面的這個板子是直接被攪碎或者是它被不合理的回收那它怎麼它可以去找這些批次是它已經找不回來的批次它可以逐漸的把它key上去但是並不能證明這一片的序號是它有回收到\n\n11\n00:03:49,225 --> 00:04:05,602\n基本上他的所有的過程一個量一個總量可以去做估算例如說一片是幾公斤那個都是固定的他們就可以去做推算大概多少片那好的序號在的就會在所以的確會有一些他已經泡了水那個序號貼紙掉了的確是有的所以最後你還是會有一定有的你之後也會跟經濟部協調更改的流程\n\n12\n00:04:12,850 --> 00:04:29,029\n其實這個壞掉的部分是他們現在用推斷說大概多少片大概多少片他們會算出來然後序號大概多少到多少這個其實是有的好那可以簡單的跟我們說那您未來的進度什麼時候您跟經濟部可以正式的有這樣子的報告\n\n13\n00:04:29,349 --> 00:04:49,750\n我記得他們我所知道他們明年的新系統會開始啟用那速度因為他們其實他們我們的資料也是從他們那邊過來所以他們那邊我們現在只有一部分的資料例如說我們有幾百萬片他們應該有幾千萬片所以這個未來的進來的速度我希望可以這個即時的能夠接進來那目前還沒有做到\n\n14\n00:04:51,106 --> 00:05:05,237\n那今天很感謝昭緯排的這樣子的議程因為其實城市採礦是國際上現在有很多期刊跟文章都在討論的議題那本來認為你的書面報告比較精簡一點只有一頁那昨天在看的時候\n\n15\n00:05:06,838 --> 00:05:33,835\n覺得好像環境部對這個議題很陌生可是今天聽你的口頭報告有詳細的非常多那當然台灣比較可惜的是產業走的蠻前面的可是環境部還沒有辦法有大的戰略把大家一起整合在一起剛剛你有說你要很多的部門一起來協助並且去盤點我們稀有金屬現在國內的量能是多少那你可以大概跟我們講什麼時候可以完成嗎經濟部主秘也可以說\n\n16\n00:05:34,675 --> 00:05:53,854\n包委其實這個稀有貴金屬是一個戰略所以你可以看得到這陣子不管是美國跟日本簽訂一些稀土的協議其實都是屬於一個高機敏性的有戰略的物質我不方便在這個地方卸了我們所有的廠商我們台灣的優勢的一個底但是問題是說我只是問你進度因為你說你現在開始在盤點\n\n17\n00:05:56,056 --> 00:06:21,473\n我們這個已經進行了好幾個月了已經進行當中那經濟部也有我們現在會兩邊合在一起在推動這個事情那你們預計什麼時候可以完成完我們全國的量能其實我們是看重說未來我們的戰略的思考是什麼例如說現在很多的國家國與國之間在處理這個事情那我們怎麼去面對它所以我們是後面深層次的問題那現在有的部分的話我們是逐一逐一的去細談\n\n18\n00:06:22,353 --> 00:06:38,235\n因為跟委員報告有些的這個戰略物資例如說我們的手機它進去回收有很多的東西它其實是去原廠的它不見得會跟我們台灣我們的政府講的所以我們一個一個要把這個所有盤點起來變成是一個很好的國家的隊伍這是我們希望的目標好\n\n19\n00:06:39,276 --> 00:06:55,626\n這個是原本我希望您在報告中有提到的因為我有去查了一些資料最近經濟部長有針對這個事件發言那你剛有講到中國在10月9號無預警的祭出這個稀土的管制所以堪稱是一個無差別的攻擊啟動了一個貿易戰\n\n20\n00:06:56,607 --> 00:07:16,155\n那對台灣而言台灣有無人機產業還有大量的半導體產業極強是一個大衝擊那就說如果未來在其他的國家你有用到中國的稀土這個產品有0.1%以上他在申請出口到比如說台灣錢就必須要跟中國商業部\n\n21\n00:07:17,075 --> 00:07:37,564\n獲得出口的許可證那你剛講到的城市採礦為什麼今天排這個題目就是因為他對於環境的危害也會稍微少一點比傳統的採礦他的碳排比較少還有也可以讓我們的這些廢棄物把他的資源提煉出來甚至變成更重要的戰略物質\n\n22\n00:07:38,504 --> 00:08:06,281\n那我這邊查到資訊是經濟部長希望2028年開始啟動喔這個可能跟其他國家比是有一點慢開始啟動輔導國內的廠商然後從廢棄的電器中回收再精煉稀土2031年希望可以滿足國內三分之一的需求這些我本來昨天是希望從你的報告中獲得那你現在可以口頭跟我們說你這個進程會不會想要跟經濟部討論再提前\n\n23\n00:08:07,229 --> 00:08:20,207\n這當然也會提前我們是希望可以更提前而且這是我們國家的重要的產業那是不是請經濟部可以報告一下跟委員報告其實這一部分經部現在其實已經委託像供應院這些研究機構來\n\n24\n00:08:22,170 --> 00:08:43,577\n提升國內在有關這個相關的一個技術的一個量能那我們明年就會開始啟動國內的產業投入相關的一個研發跟相關的一個產業的一個推動目標是2030年能夠滿足國內三分之一我們目標是2030年要滿足國內三分之一的供應量提早一年所以明年就會啟動\n\n25\n00:08:44,571 --> 00:09:10,010\n好這可能環境部部長我們看了一些比如說右邊他是英國智庫對於日本的分析報告然後左邊是ElementalGroup處理廢棄物轉化成關鍵金屬的集團那當然他是在講日本為什麼他會以國家級的這樣子的層級開始都市採礦是因為源頭是因為他們在船在海上跟中國的漁船有一些糾紛\n\n26\n00:09:11,651 --> 00:09:36,945\n抓了這個船長後來中國緊急的暫停稀土的出口所以威脅到日本的汽車產業所以他們就開始把它變成一個大的戰略提高到整個國家有一個專責的機構來做這個好那他除了可以去挑戰中國在關鍵礦物生產的主導地位以外也可以擴張他跟其他國家合作比如說他有個很重要就技術輸出\n\n27\n00:09:38,506 --> 00:09:59,676\n您剛講這麼多我也是想知道說您會不會考慮加快這個速度然後跟日本合作做這樣的技術輸出因為他們現在做得很好包委員這個都有在談這個是屬於關鍵戰略我們都有在談那不方便在這個時候說因為這個是有戰略的那委員你提到這個其實台灣1950年60年早就有在做這個事了二人蜥\n\n28\n00:10:01,717 --> 00:10:17,412\n這個電子廢棄物就是處理這個東西但是它是污染我們環境的所以我們現在要的是屬於高科技的沒有污染的可以回收的更好更有價值的東西這是我們要的所以最後結論以下四點是我希望可以您跟經濟部看可不可以在\n\n29\n00:10:18,513 --> 00:10:47,723\n多久的時間內比如說一個月內提出相關的報告第一個就是把都市採礦明確的納入資源循環推動法草案中然後設定長期的指標還有部會分工因為昨天的書面並沒有寫得非常詳細有關於這個部分那第二個當然你已經講很多了早上口報你也說這個就是我們減少對外依賴那第三這是從日本來的想法因為他們有一個專責的單位叫做都市礦山再資源化中心\n\n30\n00:10:48,763 --> 00:11:13,440\n對因為你有提到需要很多部門一起協作才有辦法達成那最後就是推動稀有金屬的回收基金你要不要簡短的回答好醫業的部分委員你的意見我們都有納入裡面了那三四的話其實第一個是我是由我們資源循環署來主責那當然要跟經濟部一起合作那是不是有回收基金我們再來評估一下好那我可以在一個月內跟您要到一個書面報告嗎可以嗎\n\n31\n00:11:14,895 --> 00:11:17,303\n好可以謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝陳金惠委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1170\t19666\t謝謝主席我想請彭部長還有經濟部的莊主密請彭部長跟莊主密部長好上次跟您有一些交流後來因為現在國人真的很關心光電板的回收所以剛好今天經濟部也在對不起\n22176\t48818\t幫我按下一張好 上次經濟部有回函給我們辦公室嘛他提到說 風災以後大量的廢棄光電板處理這個追蹤序號已經是不可行因為怕有一些傳染病等等的並且環境部建議 天災之下已改用重量為基礎來做回收 以提升效率我在這邊只是想要追說後來您跟經濟部協商之後的結果如何\n50019\t69694\t報告委員謝謝委員那時候提出的一個看法那我前幾天也特別請我同仁來然後看我們跟經濟部合作那個系統那的確33個案場裡面大概有16個案場他的資料已經上來了但是有幾個很大量的都幾萬片的以上還沒有完全上傳因為那個是廠商他要把他每一個光電板的序號\n70555\t89476\tKey in進去 那個其實很廢時啦那我有跟他們講說可不可以P字檔一次進來那這個還要需要一點點作業時間那我們已經請這個同仁把這個光電板大概多少片他的去化到哪裡整個大量到哪裡會跟委員報告那其他有一些案例已經做完了我會再跟他們委員可以知道\n91343\t111575\t這邊是您剛講的這傳統我們如果是一片光電板它的年限已到它在裝上去之前它要先上網登錄它的序號然後把它裝上去它要回收前它再上網登錄一次它的序號再把它回收可是我有注意到最近的新聞不管是經濟部或是環境部都說輕運計畫回收計畫其實進度99%都已經完成了\n116658\t140694\t所以聽起來您剛講的這個大批量的序號要把它輸入是不是有可能已經不可行不會不會就是說整個的量因為它每一片都有一個序號在上面然後但是它一個廠商一個去登錄一個登錄它要花時間它內部要先整理因為十幾萬片幾萬片啦齁啊其實目前呢這個它是屬於不是這種所謂的自然淘汰的是屬於\n141314\t165389\t突發狀況的那他其實也要進到這個系統去做一個申報所以我們還在等他但是我們委員你說的事情其實已經在進行當中了我知道但我們想知道的是你這個本來的流程是不是會要有另外一個流程是因應突然有大量的光電板需要回收因為過去從來沒有過這樣的經驗所以我的意思說未來你會不會有一個新的流程\n166009\t177883\t其實經濟部我所知道經濟部那邊他針對這個光電板每一個序號的管理他們也有一些精進的計畫那我們也在等他們因為未來我希望可以更及時的在數字上面可以更借鑒的更順利\n178709\t205861\t所以之後會有再有一份新的報告是嗎這可能要一點時間因為我知道他們他們的數位系統要全面的大更新因為現在其實key in的都是要手動的因為我自己印象我可以用P字檔直接上去一下就解決了可是他們一片一片的key那個要key很久啊這個幾萬片所以我們是希望他們可以陸續的解決那這個呢其實就可以先到譬如說我們這次處理這個廚藝的這個真主這個其實我們可不可以用數位化可以來處理\n206641\t228565\t但是因為您實際去看的確是有光電板下面的這個板子是直接被攪碎或者是它被不合理的回收那它怎麼它可以去找這些批次是它已經找不回來的批次它可以逐漸的把它key上去但是並不能證明這一片的序號是它有回收到\n229225\t245602\t基本上他的所有的過程一個量一個總量可以去做估算例如說一片是幾公斤那個都是固定的他們就可以去做推算大概多少片那好的序號在的就會在所以的確會有一些他已經泡了水那個序號貼紙掉了的確是有的所以最後你還是會有一定有的你之後也會跟經濟部協調更改的流程\n252850\t269029\t其實這個壞掉的部分是他們現在用推斷說大概多少片大概多少片他們會算出來然後序號大概多少到多少這個其實是有的好 那可以簡單的跟我們說那您未來的進度什麼時候您跟經濟部可以正式的有這樣子的報告\n269349\t289750\t我記得他們我所知道他們明年的新系統會開始啟用那速度 因為他們其實他們我們的資料也是從他們那邊過來所以他們那邊我們現在只有一部分的資料例如說我們有幾百萬片他們應該有幾千萬片所以這個未來的進來的速度我希望可以這個即時的能夠接進來那目前還沒有做到\n291106\t305237\t那今天很感謝昭緯排的這樣子的議程因為其實城市採礦是國際上現在有很多期刊跟文章都在討論的議題那本來認為你的書面報告比較精簡一點只有一頁那昨天在看的時候\n306838\t333835\t覺得好像環境部對這個議題很陌生可是今天聽你的口頭報告有詳細的非常多那當然台灣比較可惜的是產業走的蠻前面的可是環境部還沒有辦法有大的戰略把大家一起整合在一起剛剛你有說你要很多的部門一起來協助並且去盤點我們稀有金屬現在國內的量能是多少那你可以大概跟我們講什麼時候可以完成嗎經濟部主秘也可以說\n334675\t353854\t包委其實這個稀有貴金屬是一個戰略所以你可以看得到這陣子不管是美國跟日本簽訂一些稀土的協議其實都是屬於一個高機敏性的有戰略的物質我不方便在這個地方卸了我們所有的廠商我們台灣的優勢的一個底但是問題是說我只是問你進度因為你說你現在開始在盤點\n356056\t381473\t我們這個已經進行了好幾個月了已經進行當中那經濟部也有我們現在會兩邊合在一起在推動這個事情那你們預計什麼時候可以完成完我們全國的量能其實我們是看重說未來我們的戰略的思考是什麼例如說現在很多的國家國與國之間在處理這個事情那我們怎麼去面對它所以我們是後面深層次的問題那現在有的部分的話我們是逐一逐一的去細談\n382353\t398235\t因為跟委員報告有些的這個戰略物資例如說我們的手機它進去回收有很多的東西它其實是去原廠的它不見得會跟我們台灣我們的政府講的所以我們一個一個要把這個所有盤點起來變成是一個很好的國家的隊伍這是我們希望的目標好\n399276\t415626\t這個是原本我希望您在報告中有提到的因為我有去查了一些資料最近經濟部長有針對這個事件發言那你剛有講到中國在10月9號無預警的祭出這個稀土的管制所以堪稱是一個無差別的攻擊啟動了一個貿易戰\n416607\t436155\t那對台灣而言台灣有無人機產業還有大量的半導體產業極強是一個大衝擊那就說如果未來在其他的國家你有用到中國的稀土這個產品有0.1%以上他在申請出口到比如說台灣錢就必須要跟中國商業部\n437075\t457564\t獲得出口的許可證那你剛講到的城市採礦為什麼今天排這個題目就是因為他對於環境的危害也會稍微少一點比傳統的採礦他的碳排比較少還有也可以讓我們的這些廢棄物把他的資源提煉出來甚至變成更重要的戰略物質\n458504\t486281\t那我這邊查到資訊是經濟部長希望2028年開始啟動喔這個可能跟其他國家比是有一點慢開始啟動輔導國內的廠商然後從廢棄的電器中回收再精煉稀土2031年希望可以滿足國內三分之一的需求這些我本來昨天是希望從你的報告中獲得那你現在可以口頭跟我們說你這個進程會不會想要跟經濟部討論再提前\n487229\t500207\t這當然也會提前我們是希望可以更提前而且這是我們國家的重要的產業那是不是請經濟部可以報告一下跟委員報告其實這一部分經部現在其實已經委託像供應院這些研究機構來\n502170\t523577\t提升國內在有關這個相關的一個技術的一個量能那我們明年就會開始啟動國內的產業投入相關的一個研發跟相關的一個產業的一個推動目標是2030年能夠滿足國內三分之一我們目標是2030年要滿足國內三分之一的供應量提早一年所以明年就會啟動\n524571\t550010\t好這可能環境部部長我們看了一些比如說右邊他是英國智庫對於日本的分析報告然後左邊是Elemental Group處理廢棄物轉化成關鍵金屬的集團那當然他是在講日本為什麼他會以國家級的這樣子的層級開始都市採礦是因為源頭是因為他們在船在海上跟中國的漁船有一些糾紛\n551651\t576945\t抓了這個船長後來中國緊急的暫停稀土的出口所以威脅到日本的汽車產業所以他們就開始把它變成一個大的戰略提高到整個國家有一個專責的機構來做這個好那他除了可以去挑戰中國在關鍵礦物生產的主導地位以外也可以擴張他跟其他國家合作比如說他有個很重要就技術輸出\n578506\t599676\t您剛講這麼多 我也是想知道說 您會不會考慮加快這個速度 然後跟日本合作做這樣的技術輸出 因為他們現在做得很好包委員 這個都有在談 這個是屬於關鍵戰略 我們都有在談那不方便在這個時候說 因為這個是有戰略的那委員你提到這個 其實台灣1950年 60年早就有在做這個事了 二人蜥\n601717\t617412\t這個電子廢棄物就是處理這個東西但是它是污染我們環境的所以我們現在要的是屬於高科技的沒有污染的可以回收的更好更有價值的東西這是我們要的所以最後結論以下四點是我希望可以您跟經濟部看可不可以在\n618513\t647723\t多久的時間內比如說一個月內提出相關的報告第一個就是把都市採礦明確的納入資源循環推動法草案中然後設定長期的指標還有部會分工因為昨天的書面並沒有寫得非常詳細有關於這個部分那第二個當然你已經講很多了早上口報你也說這個就是我們減少對外依賴那第三這是從日本來的想法因為他們有一個專責的單位叫做都市礦山再資源化中心\n648763\t673440\t對 因為你有提到需要很多部門一起協作才有辦法達成那最後就是推動稀有金屬的回收基金你要不要簡短的回答好 醫業的部分委員你的意見我們都有納入裡面了那三四的話其實第一個是我是由我們資源循環署來主責那當然要跟經濟部一起合作那是不是有回收基金我們再來評估一下好 那我可以在一個月內跟您要到一個書面報告嗎可以嗎\n674895\t677303\t好 可以 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝陳金惠委員發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請彭部長還有經濟部的莊主密請彭部長跟莊主密部長好上次跟您有一些交流後來因為現在國人真的很關心光電板的回收所以剛好今天經濟部也在對不起\n幫我按下一張好 上次經濟部有回函給我們辦公室嘛他提到說 風災以後大量的廢棄光電板處理這個追蹤序號已經是不可行因為怕有一些傳染病等等的並且環境部建議 天災之下已改用重量為基礎來做回收 以提升效率我在這邊只是想要追說後來您跟經濟部協商之後的結果如何\n報告委員謝謝委員那時候提出的一個看法那我前幾天也特別請我同仁來然後看我們跟經濟部合作那個系統那的確33個案場裡面大概有16個案場他的資料已經上來了但是有幾個很大量的都幾萬片的以上還沒有完全上傳因為那個是廠商他要把他每一個光電板的序號\nKey in進去 那個其實很廢時啦那我有跟他們講說可不可以P字檔一次進來那這個還要需要一點點作業時間那我們已經請這個同仁把這個光電板大概多少片他的去化到哪裡整個大量到哪裡會跟委員報告那其他有一些案例已經做完了我會再跟他們委員可以知道\n這邊是您剛講的這傳統我們如果是一片光電板它的年限已到它在裝上去之前它要先上網登錄它的序號然後把它裝上去它要回收前它再上網登錄一次它的序號再把它回收可是我有注意到最近的新聞不管是經濟部或是環境部都說輕運計畫回收計畫其實進度99%都已經完成了\n所以聽起來您剛講的這個大批量的序號要把它輸入是不是有可能已經不可行不會不會就是說整個的量因為它每一片都有一個序號在上面然後但是它一個廠商一個去登錄一個登錄它要花時間它內部要先整理因為十幾萬片幾萬片啦齁啊其實目前呢這個它是屬於不是這種所謂的自然淘汰的是屬於\n突發狀況的那他其實也要進到這個系統去做一個申報所以我們還在等他但是我們委員你說的事情其實已經在進行當中了我知道但我們想知道的是你這個本來的流程是不是會要有另外一個流程是因應突然有大量的光電板需要回收因為過去從來沒有過這樣的經驗所以我的意思說未來你會不會有一個新的流程\n其實經濟部我所知道經濟部那邊他針對這個光電板每一個序號的管理他們也有一些精進的計畫那我們也在等他們因為未來我希望可以更及時的在數字上面可以更借鑒的更順利\n所以之後會有再有一份新的報告是嗎這可能要一點時間因為我知道他們他們的數位系統要全面的大更新因為現在其實key in的都是要手動的因為我自己印象我可以用P字檔直接上去一下就解決了可是他們一片一片的key那個要key很久啊這個幾萬片所以我們是希望他們可以陸續的解決那這個呢其實就可以先到譬如說我們這次處理這個廚藝的這個真主這個其實我們可不可以用數位化可以來處理\n但是因為您實際去看的確是有光電板下面的這個板子是直接被攪碎或者是它被不合理的回收那它怎麼它可以去找這些批次是它已經找不回來的批次它可以逐漸的把它key上去但是並不能證明這一片的序號是它有回收到\n基本上他的所有的過程一個量一個總量可以去做估算例如說一片是幾公斤那個都是固定的他們就可以去做推算大概多少片那好的序號在的就會在所以的確會有一些他已經泡了水那個序號貼紙掉了的確是有的所以最後你還是會有一定有的你之後也會跟經濟部協調更改的流程\n其實這個壞掉的部分是他們現在用推斷說大概多少片大概多少片他們會算出來然後序號大概多少到多少這個其實是有的好 那可以簡單的跟我們說那您未來的進度什麼時候您跟經濟部可以正式的有這樣子的報告\n我記得他們我所知道他們明年的新系統會開始啟用那速度 因為他們其實他們我們的資料也是從他們那邊過來所以他們那邊我們現在只有一部分的資料例如說我們有幾百萬片他們應該有幾千萬片所以這個未來的進來的速度我希望可以這個即時的能夠接進來那目前還沒有做到\n那今天很感謝昭緯排的這樣子的議程因為其實城市採礦是國際上現在有很多期刊跟文章都在討論的議題那本來認為你的書面報告比較精簡一點只有一頁那昨天在看的時候\n覺得好像環境部對這個議題很陌生可是今天聽你的口頭報告有詳細的非常多那當然台灣比較可惜的是產業走的蠻前面的可是環境部還沒有辦法有大的戰略把大家一起整合在一起剛剛你有說你要很多的部門一起來協助並且去盤點我們稀有金屬現在國內的量能是多少那你可以大概跟我們講什麼時候可以完成嗎經濟部主秘也可以說\n包委其實這個稀有貴金屬是一個戰略所以你可以看得到這陣子不管是美國跟日本簽訂一些稀土的協議其實都是屬於一個高機敏性的有戰略的物質我不方便在這個地方卸了我們所有的廠商我們台灣的優勢的一個底但是問題是說我只是問你進度因為你說你現在開始在盤點\n我們這個已經進行了好幾個月了已經進行當中那經濟部也有我們現在會兩邊合在一起在推動這個事情那你們預計什麼時候可以完成完我們全國的量能其實我們是看重說未來我們的戰略的思考是什麼例如說現在很多的國家國與國之間在處理這個事情那我們怎麼去面對它所以我們是後面深層次的問題那現在有的部分的話我們是逐一逐一的去細談\n因為跟委員報告有些的這個戰略物資例如說我們的手機它進去回收有很多的東西它其實是去原廠的它不見得會跟我們台灣我們的政府講的所以我們一個一個要把這個所有盤點起來變成是一個很好的國家的隊伍這是我們希望的目標好\n這個是原本我希望您在報告中有提到的因為我有去查了一些資料最近經濟部長有針對這個事件發言那你剛有講到中國在10月9號無預警的祭出這個稀土的管制所以堪稱是一個無差別的攻擊啟動了一個貿易戰\n那對台灣而言台灣有無人機產業還有大量的半導體產業極強是一個大衝擊那就說如果未來在其他的國家你有用到中國的稀土這個產品有0.1%以上他在申請出口到比如說台灣錢就必須要跟中國商業部\n獲得出口的許可證那你剛講到的城市採礦為什麼今天排這個題目就是因為他對於環境的危害也會稍微少一點比傳統的採礦他的碳排比較少還有也可以讓我們的這些廢棄物把他的資源提煉出來甚至變成更重要的戰略物質\n那我這邊查到資訊是經濟部長希望2028年開始啟動喔這個可能跟其他國家比是有一點慢開始啟動輔導國內的廠商然後從廢棄的電器中回收再精煉稀土2031年希望可以滿足國內三分之一的需求這些我本來昨天是希望從你的報告中獲得那你現在可以口頭跟我們說你這個進程會不會想要跟經濟部討論再提前\n這當然也會提前我們是希望可以更提前而且這是我們國家的重要的產業那是不是請經濟部可以報告一下跟委員報告其實這一部分經部現在其實已經委託像供應院這些研究機構來\n提升國內在有關這個相關的一個技術的一個量能那我們明年就會開始啟動國內的產業投入相關的一個研發跟相關的一個產業的一個推動目標是2030年能夠滿足國內三分之一我們目標是2030年要滿足國內三分之一的供應量提早一年所以明年就會啟動\n好這可能環境部部長我們看了一些比如說右邊他是英國智庫對於日本的分析報告然後左邊是Elemental Group處理廢棄物轉化成關鍵金屬的集團那當然他是在講日本為什麼他會以國家級的這樣子的層級開始都市採礦是因為源頭是因為他們在船在海上跟中國的漁船有一些糾紛\n抓了這個船長後來中國緊急的暫停稀土的出口所以威脅到日本的汽車產業所以他們就開始把它變成一個大的戰略提高到整個國家有一個專責的機構來做這個好那他除了可以去挑戰中國在關鍵礦物生產的主導地位以外也可以擴張他跟其他國家合作比如說他有個很重要就技術輸出\n您剛講這麼多 我也是想知道說 您會不會考慮加快這個速度 然後跟日本合作做這樣的技術輸出 因為他們現在做得很好包委員 這個都有在談 這個是屬於關鍵戰略 我們都有在談那不方便在這個時候說 因為這個是有戰略的那委員你提到這個 其實台灣1950年 60年早就有在做這個事了 二人蜥\n這個電子廢棄物就是處理這個東西但是它是污染我們環境的所以我們現在要的是屬於高科技的沒有污染的可以回收的更好更有價值的東西這是我們要的所以最後結論以下四點是我希望可以您跟經濟部看可不可以在\n多久的時間內比如說一個月內提出相關的報告第一個就是把都市採礦明確的納入資源循環推動法草案中然後設定長期的指標還有部會分工因為昨天的書面並沒有寫得非常詳細有關於這個部分那第二個當然你已經講很多了早上口報你也說這個就是我們減少對外依賴那第三這是從日本來的想法因為他們有一個專責的單位叫做都市礦山再資源化中心\n對 因為你有提到需要很多部門一起協作才有辦法達成那最後就是推動稀有金屬的回收基金你要不要簡短的回答好 醫業的部分委員你的意見我們都有納入裡面了那三四的話其實第一個是我是由我們資源循環署來主責那當然要跟經濟部一起合作那是不是有回收基金我們再來評估一下好 那我可以在一個月內跟您要到一個書面報告嗎可以嗎\n好 可以 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝陳金惠委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.170 --> 00:19.666\n謝謝主席我想請彭部長還有經濟部的莊主密請彭部長跟莊主密部長好上次跟您有一些交流後來因為現在國人真的很關心光電板的回收所以剛好今天經濟部也在對不起\n\n00:22.176 --> 00:48.818\n幫我按下一張好上次經濟部有回函給我們辦公室嘛他提到說風災以後大量的廢棄光電板處理這個追蹤序號已經是不可行因為怕有一些傳染病等等的並且環境部建議天災之下已改用重量為基礎來做回收以提升效率我在這邊只是想要追說後來您跟經濟部協商之後的結果如何\n\n00:50.019 --> 01:09.694\n報告委員謝謝委員那時候提出的一個看法那我前幾天也特別請我同仁來然後看我們跟經濟部合作那個系統那的確33個案場裡面大概有16個案場他的資料已經上來了但是有幾個很大量的都幾萬片的以上還沒有完全上傳因為那個是廠商他要把他每一個光電板的序號\n\n01:10.555 --> 01:29.476\nKeyin進去那個其實很廢時啦那我有跟他們講說可不可以P字檔一次進來那這個還要需要一點點作業時間那我們已經請這個同仁把這個光電板大概多少片他的去化到哪裡整個大量到哪裡會跟委員報告那其他有一些案例已經做完了我會再跟他們委員可以知道\n\n01:31.343 --> 01:51.575\n這邊是您剛講的這傳統我們如果是一片光電板它的年限已到它在裝上去之前它要先上網登錄它的序號然後把它裝上去它要回收前它再上網登錄一次它的序號再把它回收可是我有注意到最近的新聞不管是經濟部或是環境部都說輕運計畫回收計畫其實進度99%都已經完成了\n\n01:56.658 --> 02:20.694\n所以聽起來您剛講的這個大批量的序號要把它輸入是不是有可能已經不可行不會不會就是說整個的量因為它每一片都有一個序號在上面然後但是它一個廠商一個去登錄一個登錄它要花時間它內部要先整理因為十幾萬片幾萬片啦齁啊其實目前呢這個它是屬於不是這種所謂的自然淘汰的是屬於\n\n02:21.314 --> 02:45.389\n突發狀況的那他其實也要進到這個系統去做一個申報所以我們還在等他但是我們委員你說的事情其實已經在進行當中了我知道但我們想知道的是你這個本來的流程是不是會要有另外一個流程是因應突然有大量的光電板需要回收因為過去從來沒有過這樣的經驗所以我的意思說未來你會不會有一個新的流程\n\n02:46.009 --> 02:57.883\n其實經濟部我所知道經濟部那邊他針對這個光電板每一個序號的管理他們也有一些精進的計畫那我們也在等他們因為未來我希望可以更及時的在數字上面可以更借鑒的更順利\n\n02:58.709 --> 03:25.861\n所以之後會有再有一份新的報告是嗎這可能要一點時間因為我知道他們他們的數位系統要全面的大更新因為現在其實keyin的都是要手動的因為我自己印象我可以用P字檔直接上去一下就解決了可是他們一片一片的key那個要key很久啊這個幾萬片所以我們是希望他們可以陸續的解決那這個呢其實就可以先到譬如說我們這次處理這個廚藝的這個真主這個其實我們可不可以用數位化可以來處理\n\n03:26.641 --> 03:48.565\n但是因為您實際去看的確是有光電板下面的這個板子是直接被攪碎或者是它被不合理的回收那它怎麼它可以去找這些批次是它已經找不回來的批次它可以逐漸的把它key上去但是並不能證明這一片的序號是它有回收到\n\n03:49.225 --> 04:05.602\n基本上他的所有的過程一個量一個總量可以去做估算例如說一片是幾公斤那個都是固定的他們就可以去做推算大概多少片那好的序號在的就會在所以的確會有一些他已經泡了水那個序號貼紙掉了的確是有的所以最後你還是會有一定有的你之後也會跟經濟部協調更改的流程\n\n04:12.850 --> 04:29.029\n其實這個壞掉的部分是他們現在用推斷說大概多少片大概多少片他們會算出來然後序號大概多少到多少這個其實是有的好那可以簡單的跟我們說那您未來的進度什麼時候您跟經濟部可以正式的有這樣子的報告\n\n04:29.349 --> 04:49.750\n我記得他們我所知道他們明年的新系統會開始啟用那速度因為他們其實他們我們的資料也是從他們那邊過來所以他們那邊我們現在只有一部分的資料例如說我們有幾百萬片他們應該有幾千萬片所以這個未來的進來的速度我希望可以這個即時的能夠接進來那目前還沒有做到\n\n04:51.106 --> 05:05.237\n那今天很感謝昭緯排的這樣子的議程因為其實城市採礦是國際上現在有很多期刊跟文章都在討論的議題那本來認為你的書面報告比較精簡一點只有一頁那昨天在看的時候\n\n05:06.838 --> 05:33.835\n覺得好像環境部對這個議題很陌生可是今天聽你的口頭報告有詳細的非常多那當然台灣比較可惜的是產業走的蠻前面的可是環境部還沒有辦法有大的戰略把大家一起整合在一起剛剛你有說你要很多的部門一起來協助並且去盤點我們稀有金屬現在國內的量能是多少那你可以大概跟我們講什麼時候可以完成嗎經濟部主秘也可以說\n\n05:34.675 --> 05:53.854\n包委其實這個稀有貴金屬是一個戰略所以你可以看得到這陣子不管是美國跟日本簽訂一些稀土的協議其實都是屬於一個高機敏性的有戰略的物質我不方便在這個地方卸了我們所有的廠商我們台灣的優勢的一個底但是問題是說我只是問你進度因為你說你現在開始在盤點\n\n05:56.056 --> 06:21.473\n我們這個已經進行了好幾個月了已經進行當中那經濟部也有我們現在會兩邊合在一起在推動這個事情那你們預計什麼時候可以完成完我們全國的量能其實我們是看重說未來我們的戰略的思考是什麼例如說現在很多的國家國與國之間在處理這個事情那我們怎麼去面對它所以我們是後面深層次的問題那現在有的部分的話我們是逐一逐一的去細談\n\n06:22.353 --> 06:38.235\n因為跟委員報告有些的這個戰略物資例如說我們的手機它進去回收有很多的東西它其實是去原廠的它不見得會跟我們台灣我們的政府講的所以我們一個一個要把這個所有盤點起來變成是一個很好的國家的隊伍這是我們希望的目標好\n\n06:39.276 --> 06:55.626\n這個是原本我希望您在報告中有提到的因為我有去查了一些資料最近經濟部長有針對這個事件發言那你剛有講到中國在10月9號無預警的祭出這個稀土的管制所以堪稱是一個無差別的攻擊啟動了一個貿易戰\n\n06:56.607 --> 07:16.155\n那對台灣而言台灣有無人機產業還有大量的半導體產業極強是一個大衝擊那就說如果未來在其他的國家你有用到中國的稀土這個產品有0.1%以上他在申請出口到比如說台灣錢就必須要跟中國商業部\n\n07:17.075 --> 07:37.564\n獲得出口的許可證那你剛講到的城市採礦為什麼今天排這個題目就是因為他對於環境的危害也會稍微少一點比傳統的採礦他的碳排比較少還有也可以讓我們的這些廢棄物把他的資源提煉出來甚至變成更重要的戰略物質\n\n07:38.504 --> 08:06.281\n那我這邊查到資訊是經濟部長希望2028年開始啟動喔這個可能跟其他國家比是有一點慢開始啟動輔導國內的廠商然後從廢棄的電器中回收再精煉稀土2031年希望可以滿足國內三分之一的需求這些我本來昨天是希望從你的報告中獲得那你現在可以口頭跟我們說你這個進程會不會想要跟經濟部討論再提前\n\n08:07.229 --> 08:20.207\n這當然也會提前我們是希望可以更提前而且這是我們國家的重要的產業那是不是請經濟部可以報告一下跟委員報告其實這一部分經部現在其實已經委託像供應院這些研究機構來\n\n08:22.170 --> 08:43.577\n提升國內在有關這個相關的一個技術的一個量能那我們明年就會開始啟動國內的產業投入相關的一個研發跟相關的一個產業的一個推動目標是2030年能夠滿足國內三分之一我們目標是2030年要滿足國內三分之一的供應量提早一年所以明年就會啟動\n\n08:44.571 --> 09:10.010\n好這可能環境部部長我們看了一些比如說右邊他是英國智庫對於日本的分析報告然後左邊是ElementalGroup處理廢棄物轉化成關鍵金屬的集團那當然他是在講日本為什麼他會以國家級的這樣子的層級開始都市採礦是因為源頭是因為他們在船在海上跟中國的漁船有一些糾紛\n\n09:11.651 --> 09:36.945\n抓了這個船長後來中國緊急的暫停稀土的出口所以威脅到日本的汽車產業所以他們就開始把它變成一個大的戰略提高到整個國家有一個專責的機構來做這個好那他除了可以去挑戰中國在關鍵礦物生產的主導地位以外也可以擴張他跟其他國家合作比如說他有個很重要就技術輸出\n\n09:38.506 --> 09:59.676\n您剛講這麼多我也是想知道說您會不會考慮加快這個速度然後跟日本合作做這樣的技術輸出因為他們現在做得很好包委員這個都有在談這個是屬於關鍵戰略我們都有在談那不方便在這個時候說因為這個是有戰略的那委員你提到這個其實台灣1950年60年早就有在做這個事了二人蜥\n\n10:01.717 --> 10:17.412\n這個電子廢棄物就是處理這個東西但是它是污染我們環境的所以我們現在要的是屬於高科技的沒有污染的可以回收的更好更有價值的東西這是我們要的所以最後結論以下四點是我希望可以您跟經濟部看可不可以在\n\n10:18.513 --> 10:47.723\n多久的時間內比如說一個月內提出相關的報告第一個就是把都市採礦明確的納入資源循環推動法草案中然後設定長期的指標還有部會分工因為昨天的書面並沒有寫得非常詳細有關於這個部分那第二個當然你已經講很多了早上口報你也說這個就是我們減少對外依賴那第三這是從日本來的想法因為他們有一個專責的單位叫做都市礦山再資源化中心\n\n10:48.763 --> 11:13.440\n對因為你有提到需要很多部門一起協作才有辦法達成那最後就是推動稀有金屬的回收基金你要不要簡短的回答好醫業的部分委員你的意見我們都有納入裡面了那三四的話其實第一個是我是由我們資源循環署來主責那當然要跟經濟部一起合作那是不是有回收基金我們再來評估一下好那我可以在一個月內跟您要到一個書面報告嗎可以嗎\n\n11:14.895 --> 11:17.303\n好可以謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝陳金惠委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.17,"end":19.666,"text":"謝謝主席我想請彭部長還有經濟部的莊主密請彭部長跟莊主密部長好上次跟您有一些交流後來因為現在國人真的很關心光電板的回收所以剛好今天經濟部也在對不起"},{"start":22.176,"end":48.818,"text":"幫我按下一張好 上次經濟部有回函給我們辦公室嘛他提到說 風災以後大量的廢棄光電板處理這個追蹤序號已經是不可行因為怕有一些傳染病等等的並且環境部建議 天災之下已改用重量為基礎來做回收 以提升效率我在這邊只是想要追說後來您跟經濟部協商之後的結果如何"},{"start":50.019,"end":69.694,"text":"報告委員謝謝委員那時候提出的一個看法那我前幾天也特別請我同仁來然後看我們跟經濟部合作那個系統那的確33個案場裡面大概有16個案場他的資料已經上來了但是有幾個很大量的都幾萬片的以上還沒有完全上傳因為那個是廠商他要把他每一個光電板的序號"},{"start":70.555,"end":89.476,"text":"Key in進去 那個其實很廢時啦那我有跟他們講說可不可以P字檔一次進來那這個還要需要一點點作業時間那我們已經請這個同仁把這個光電板大概多少片他的去化到哪裡整個大量到哪裡會跟委員報告那其他有一些案例已經做完了我會再跟他們委員可以知道"},{"start":91.343,"end":111.575,"text":"這邊是您剛講的這傳統我們如果是一片光電板它的年限已到它在裝上去之前它要先上網登錄它的序號然後把它裝上去它要回收前它再上網登錄一次它的序號再把它回收可是我有注意到最近的新聞不管是經濟部或是環境部都說輕運計畫回收計畫其實進度99%都已經完成了"},{"start":116.658,"end":140.694,"text":"所以聽起來您剛講的這個大批量的序號要把它輸入是不是有可能已經不可行不會不會就是說整個的量因為它每一片都有一個序號在上面然後但是它一個廠商一個去登錄一個登錄它要花時間它內部要先整理因為十幾萬片幾萬片啦齁啊其實目前呢這個它是屬於不是這種所謂的自然淘汰的是屬於"},{"start":141.314,"end":165.389,"text":"突發狀況的那他其實也要進到這個系統去做一個申報所以我們還在等他但是我們委員你說的事情其實已經在進行當中了我知道但我們想知道的是你這個本來的流程是不是會要有另外一個流程是因應突然有大量的光電板需要回收因為過去從來沒有過這樣的經驗所以我的意思說未來你會不會有一個新的流程"},{"start":166.009,"end":177.883,"text":"其實經濟部我所知道經濟部那邊他針對這個光電板每一個序號的管理他們也有一些精進的計畫那我們也在等他們因為未來我希望可以更及時的在數字上面可以更借鑒的更順利"},{"start":178.709,"end":205.861,"text":"所以之後會有再有一份新的報告是嗎這可能要一點時間因為我知道他們他們的數位系統要全面的大更新因為現在其實key in的都是要手動的因為我自己印象我可以用P字檔直接上去一下就解決了可是他們一片一片的key那個要key很久啊這個幾萬片所以我們是希望他們可以陸續的解決那這個呢其實就可以先到譬如說我們這次處理這個廚藝的這個真主這個其實我們可不可以用數位化可以來處理"},{"start":206.641,"end":228.565,"text":"但是因為您實際去看的確是有光電板下面的這個板子是直接被攪碎或者是它被不合理的回收那它怎麼它可以去找這些批次是它已經找不回來的批次它可以逐漸的把它key上去但是並不能證明這一片的序號是它有回收到"},{"start":229.225,"end":245.602,"text":"基本上他的所有的過程一個量一個總量可以去做估算例如說一片是幾公斤那個都是固定的他們就可以去做推算大概多少片那好的序號在的就會在所以的確會有一些他已經泡了水那個序號貼紙掉了的確是有的所以最後你還是會有一定有的你之後也會跟經濟部協調更改的流程"},{"start":252.85,"end":269.029,"text":"其實這個壞掉的部分是他們現在用推斷說大概多少片大概多少片他們會算出來然後序號大概多少到多少這個其實是有的好 那可以簡單的跟我們說那您未來的進度什麼時候您跟經濟部可以正式的有這樣子的報告"},{"start":269.349,"end":289.75,"text":"我記得他們我所知道他們明年的新系統會開始啟用那速度 因為他們其實他們我們的資料也是從他們那邊過來所以他們那邊我們現在只有一部分的資料例如說我們有幾百萬片他們應該有幾千萬片所以這個未來的進來的速度我希望可以這個即時的能夠接進來那目前還沒有做到"},{"start":291.106,"end":305.237,"text":"那今天很感謝昭緯排的這樣子的議程因為其實城市採礦是國際上現在有很多期刊跟文章都在討論的議題那本來認為你的書面報告比較精簡一點只有一頁那昨天在看的時候"},{"start":306.838,"end":333.835,"text":"覺得好像環境部對這個議題很陌生可是今天聽你的口頭報告有詳細的非常多那當然台灣比較可惜的是產業走的蠻前面的可是環境部還沒有辦法有大的戰略把大家一起整合在一起剛剛你有說你要很多的部門一起來協助並且去盤點我們稀有金屬現在國內的量能是多少那你可以大概跟我們講什麼時候可以完成嗎經濟部主秘也可以說"},{"start":334.675,"end":353.854,"text":"包委其實這個稀有貴金屬是一個戰略所以你可以看得到這陣子不管是美國跟日本簽訂一些稀土的協議其實都是屬於一個高機敏性的有戰略的物質我不方便在這個地方卸了我們所有的廠商我們台灣的優勢的一個底但是問題是說我只是問你進度因為你說你現在開始在盤點"},{"start":356.056,"end":381.473,"text":"我們這個已經進行了好幾個月了已經進行當中那經濟部也有我們現在會兩邊合在一起在推動這個事情那你們預計什麼時候可以完成完我們全國的量能其實我們是看重說未來我們的戰略的思考是什麼例如說現在很多的國家國與國之間在處理這個事情那我們怎麼去面對它所以我們是後面深層次的問題那現在有的部分的話我們是逐一逐一的去細談"},{"start":382.353,"end":398.235,"text":"因為跟委員報告有些的這個戰略物資例如說我們的手機它進去回收有很多的東西它其實是去原廠的它不見得會跟我們台灣我們的政府講的所以我們一個一個要把這個所有盤點起來變成是一個很好的國家的隊伍這是我們希望的目標好"},{"start":399.276,"end":415.626,"text":"這個是原本我希望您在報告中有提到的因為我有去查了一些資料最近經濟部長有針對這個事件發言那你剛有講到中國在10月9號無預警的祭出這個稀土的管制所以堪稱是一個無差別的攻擊啟動了一個貿易戰"},{"start":416.607,"end":436.155,"text":"那對台灣而言台灣有無人機產業還有大量的半導體產業極強是一個大衝擊那就說如果未來在其他的國家你有用到中國的稀土這個產品有0.1%以上他在申請出口到比如說台灣錢就必須要跟中國商業部"},{"start":437.075,"end":457.564,"text":"獲得出口的許可證那你剛講到的城市採礦為什麼今天排這個題目就是因為他對於環境的危害也會稍微少一點比傳統的採礦他的碳排比較少還有也可以讓我們的這些廢棄物把他的資源提煉出來甚至變成更重要的戰略物質"},{"start":458.504,"end":486.281,"text":"那我這邊查到資訊是經濟部長希望2028年開始啟動喔這個可能跟其他國家比是有一點慢開始啟動輔導國內的廠商然後從廢棄的電器中回收再精煉稀土2031年希望可以滿足國內三分之一的需求這些我本來昨天是希望從你的報告中獲得那你現在可以口頭跟我們說你這個進程會不會想要跟經濟部討論再提前"},{"start":487.229,"end":500.207,"text":"這當然也會提前我們是希望可以更提前而且這是我們國家的重要的產業那是不是請經濟部可以報告一下跟委員報告其實這一部分經部現在其實已經委託像供應院這些研究機構來"},{"start":502.17,"end":523.577,"text":"提升國內在有關這個相關的一個技術的一個量能那我們明年就會開始啟動國內的產業投入相關的一個研發跟相關的一個產業的一個推動目標是2030年能夠滿足國內三分之一我們目標是2030年要滿足國內三分之一的供應量提早一年所以明年就會啟動"},{"start":524.571,"end":550.01,"text":"好這可能環境部部長我們看了一些比如說右邊他是英國智庫對於日本的分析報告然後左邊是Elemental Group處理廢棄物轉化成關鍵金屬的集團那當然他是在講日本為什麼他會以國家級的這樣子的層級開始都市採礦是因為源頭是因為他們在船在海上跟中國的漁船有一些糾紛"},{"start":551.651,"end":576.945,"text":"抓了這個船長後來中國緊急的暫停稀土的出口所以威脅到日本的汽車產業所以他們就開始把它變成一個大的戰略提高到整個國家有一個專責的機構來做這個好那他除了可以去挑戰中國在關鍵礦物生產的主導地位以外也可以擴張他跟其他國家合作比如說他有個很重要就技術輸出"},{"start":578.506,"end":599.676,"text":"您剛講這麼多 我也是想知道說 您會不會考慮加快這個速度 然後跟日本合作做這樣的技術輸出 因為他們現在做得很好包委員 這個都有在談 這個是屬於關鍵戰略 我們都有在談那不方便在這個時候說 因為這個是有戰略的那委員你提到這個 其實台灣1950年 60年早就有在做這個事了 二人蜥"},{"start":601.717,"end":617.412,"text":"這個電子廢棄物就是處理這個東西但是它是污染我們環境的所以我們現在要的是屬於高科技的沒有污染的可以回收的更好更有價值的東西這是我們要的所以最後結論以下四點是我希望可以您跟經濟部看可不可以在"},{"start":618.513,"end":647.723,"text":"多久的時間內比如說一個月內提出相關的報告第一個就是把都市採礦明確的納入資源循環推動法草案中然後設定長期的指標還有部會分工因為昨天的書面並沒有寫得非常詳細有關於這個部分那第二個當然你已經講很多了早上口報你也說這個就是我們減少對外依賴那第三這是從日本來的想法因為他們有一個專責的單位叫做都市礦山再資源化中心"},{"start":648.763,"end":673.44,"text":"對 因為你有提到需要很多部門一起協作才有辦法達成那最後就是推動稀有金屬的回收基金你要不要簡短的回答好 醫業的部分委員你的意見我們都有納入裡面了那三四的話其實第一個是我是由我們資源循環署來主責那當然要跟經濟部一起合作那是不是有回收基金我們再來評估一下好 那我可以在一個月內跟您要到一個書面報告嗎可以嗎"},{"start":674.895,"end":677.303,"text":"好 可以 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝陳金惠委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":568,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（10時4分）謝謝主席。我想請彭部長還有經濟部莊主秘。"],["主席：請彭部長跟莊主秘。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長好。上次跟您有一些交流，後來因為國人現在真的很關心光電板的回收，剛好今天經濟部也在，上次經濟部有回函給我們辦公室提到，風災以後大量廢棄光電板的處理以追蹤序號方式已經不可行，因為怕有傳染病等等，並且環境部建議，天災情況之下宜改以重量為基礎來回收，以提升效率。我在這邊只是想要追您後來跟經濟部協商之後的結果如何？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，謝謝委員那時候提出的看法，我前幾天也特別請同仁來看我們跟經濟部合作的系統，的確在33個案場裡面大概有16個案場的資料已經上來了，但是有幾個很大量的、有幾萬片以上的還沒有完全上傳，因為廠商要把每一個光電板的序號key in進去，其實是很費時的。我有跟他們說可不可以批次檔一次進來，這個部分還需要一點作業時間，我們已經請同仁針對光電板大概多少片、它的去化程度到哪裡、整個大的量到哪裡會跟委員報告。其他有一些案例已經做完的，我會再讓委員知道。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊是您剛剛講的，如果一片光電板的年限已到，在裝上去之前要先上網登錄它的序號，然後把它裝上去；要回收前，再上網登錄一次它的序號，再把它回收。可是我有注意到最近的新聞，不管是經濟部或是環境部都說，清運計畫、回收計畫其實進度99%都已經完成了。所以聽起來您剛剛講的大批量的序號要把它輸入，是不是有可能已經不可行？"],["彭部長啓明：不會，就是整個的量……因為每一片都有一個序號在上面，但是廠商一個、一個去登錄要花時間，內部也要先整理，因為有十幾萬片。目前這個部分是屬於非自然淘汰的，是屬於突發狀況的，其實也要進到這個系統去做申報，所以我們還在等待這個處理程序，但是委員說的事情其實已經在進行當中了。"],["陳委員菁徽：我知道，但我們想知道的是在本來的流程外，是不是有另外一個流程是因應突然有大量光電板需要回收的？"],["彭部長啓明：對，因為過去從來沒有過這樣的經驗。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，所以我的意思是未來你會不會有一個新的流程？"],["彭部長啓明：我所知道其實經濟部針對光電板每一個序號的管理也有一些精進的計畫，我們也在等他們，因為未來我希望可以更即時的在數字上介接的更順利。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以之後經濟部會再有一份新的報告，是嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：這可能要一點時間，因為我知道他們的數位系統要全面地大更新，現在key in都是要手動的方式，我自己印象中是可以用批次檔直接上去，一下就解決了。可是他們是一片、一片地key，那個key要key很久，這個有幾萬片，所以我們是希望他們可以陸續地解決。這個部分其實就可以牽涉到譬如這次處理廚餘的蒸煮，我們可不可以用數位化來處理的概念是一樣的。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為您實際去看，的確有光電板下面的板子是直接被絞碎，或者是被不合理的回收，他可以去找這些批次是已經找不回來的批次，他可以逐漸地把它key上去，但是並不能證明這一片的序號是有回收到。"],["彭部長啓明：基本上所有過程中的總量可以去估算，例如一片是幾公斤，那個都是固定的，他們就可以去推算大概多少片。好的、序號在的就會在，所以的確會有一些已經泡了水而序號貼紙掉了，的確是有的。"],["陳委員菁徽：不見的、沒有看到序號，會有嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：的確是有的。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以最後你還是會有。"],["彭部長啓明：一定有的。"],["陳委員菁徽：你之後也會跟經濟部協調更改的流程。"],["彭部長啓明：對，其實這個壞掉的部分是他們推斷大概多少片？他們會算出來，然後序號大概多少到多少，這個其實是有的。"],["陳委員菁徽：那可以簡單地跟我們說未來進度，就是什麼時候您跟經濟部可以正式有這樣子的報告？"],["彭部長啓明：我所知道他們明年的新系統會開始啟用，有關速度、介接……因為我們的資料也是從他們那邊過來，所以他們那邊……我們現在只有一部分的資料，例如我們有幾百萬片，他們應該有幾千萬片，所以未來進來的速度我希望可以即時地接進來，目前還沒有做到。"],["陳委員菁徽：今天很感謝召委排了這樣子的議程，因為城市採礦是國際上現在有很多期刊跟文章都在討論的議題。本來認為您的書面報告只有一頁，比較精簡一點，昨天在看的時候，覺得環境部好像對這個議題很陌生，可是今天聽你的口頭報告是詳細得非常多，當然臺灣比較可惜的是產業走得蠻前面的，可是環境部還沒有辦法有大的戰略把大家整合在一起。剛剛你說要很多的部門一起來協助，並且去盤點現在國內稀有金屬的量能是多少。可以大概跟我們講什麼時候可以完成嗎？經濟部主秘也可以說。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實稀有貴金屬是一個戰略，所以你可以看得到這陣子，不管是美國跟日本簽訂一些稀土的協議，其實都是屬於一個高機敏性的、有戰略的物資，我不方便在這個地方洩了我們所有的廠商、我們臺灣的優勢的底，但是問題是說這個部分……"],["陳委員菁徽：我只是問你進度……"],["彭部長啓明：進度其實……"],["陳委員菁徽：我只是問你進度，因為你說現在開始在盤點。"],["彭部長啓明：這個已經進行了好幾個月了，已經在進行當中，經濟部也有，我們現在會兩邊合在一起推動。"],["陳委員菁徽：你們預計什麼時候可以完成關於全國量能的部分？"],["彭部長啓明：其實我們是看重未來戰略的思考是什麼？例如現在很多的國家、國與國之間在處理這個事情，那我們怎麼去面對它，所以我們是後面深層式的問題。現在的部分，我們是逐一、逐一地去細談，因為有些的戰略物資，例如我們的手機進去回收，有很多的東西其實是去原廠，它不見得會跟我們臺灣的政府講的，所以我們一個、一個要把所有盤點起來，變成是一個很好的國家隊伍，這是我們希望的目標。"],["陳委員菁徽：這個是原本我希望您在報告中有提到的，因為我有去查了一些資料，最近經濟部長有針對這個事件發言，那你剛剛也有講到中國在10月9日無預警的祭出稀土管制，所以堪稱是一個無差別的攻擊，啟動了一個貿易戰。對臺灣而言，臺灣有無人機產業，還有大量的半導體產業，這會造成極強勢的大衝擊。也就是如果未來在其他的國家有用到中國的稀土，這個產品有0.1%以上，他在申請出口到比如臺灣前，就必須要獲得中國商業部出口的許可證。","你剛剛講到的城市採礦，為什麼今天排這個題目？就是因為它對於環境的危害也會稍微少一點，比傳統的採礦它的碳排比較少，也可以讓我們把這些廢棄物的資源提煉出來，甚至變成更重要的戰略物資。我這邊查到資訊是經濟部長希望2028年開始啟動輔導國內的廠商，這個部分可能跟其他國家比是有一點慢，然後從廢棄的電器中回收再精煉稀土，2031年希望可以滿足國內三分之一的需求。我本來昨天是希望從你的報告中獲得，那你現在可以口頭跟我們說，這個進程會不會想要跟經濟部討論再提前？"],["彭部長啓明：這個當然也會提前，我們是希望可以更提前，而且這是我們國家的重要產業。是不是請經濟部跟你報告一下？"],["陳委員菁徽：好。"],["莊主任秘書銘池：跟委員報告，這部分經濟部現在已經委託像工研院這些研究機構來提升國內在相關技術的量能，我們明年就會開始啟動國內的產業投入相關的研發跟相關產業的推動，目標是2030年能夠滿足國內三分之一……"],["陳委員菁徽：2030，提前一年？"],["莊主任秘書銘池：我們的目標是2030年要滿足國內三分之一的供應鏈……"],["陳委員菁徽：提早一年？"],["莊主任秘書銘池：是，所以明年就會啟動。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，這個部分可能要環境部部長。我們看了一些資料，比如右邊是英國智庫對日本的分析報告，左邊是Elemental Group處理廢棄物轉化成關鍵金屬的一個集團，當然他是在講日本為什麼會以國家級的層級開始都市採礦，源頭是因為他們在海上跟中國漁船有一些糾紛，就抓了船長，後來中國緊急暫停稀土的出口而威脅到日本的汽車產業，所以他們就開始把它變成一個大的戰略，提高到國家有一個專責的機構來做這個部分。除了可以去挑戰中國在關鍵礦物生產的主導地位以外，也可以擴張他跟其他國家的合作，比如他有個很重要的就是技術輸出。您剛剛講這麼多，我也是想知道你會不會考慮加快速度，然後跟日本合作做這樣的技術輸出？因為他們現在做得很好。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個都有在談，這個部分是屬於關鍵戰略，我們都有在談，不方便在這個時候說，因為這個是有戰略的。委員，關於你提到的這個，其實臺灣在1950年、1960年早就有在做這個事了！二仁溪燒電子廢棄物就是處理這個東西，但它是污染環境的，所以我們現在要的是屬於高科技的、沒有污染的、可以回收得更好、更有價值的東西，這是我們要的。"],["陳委員菁徽：最後結論是以下四點，我希望您跟經濟部看可以在多久的時間內，比如一個月內提出相關的報告：第一個，是不是把都市採礦明確地納入資源循環推動法草案中，然後設定長期的指標還有部會分工，因為昨天的書面關於這部分並沒有寫得非常詳細；第二個，當然你已經講很多了，早上口頭報告你也說這個就是我們減少對外依賴；第三個，這是從日本來的想法，因為他們有一個專責的單位叫做都市礦山再資源化中心，因為你有提到需要很多部門一起協作才有辦法達成；最後就是推動稀有金屬的回收基金。你要不要簡短地回答？"],["彭部長啓明：一、二的部分，委員你的意見我們都有納入裡面了。三、四的話，其實第一個是由我們資源循環署主責，當然要跟經濟部一起合作；至於是不是有回收基金，我們再來評估一下。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，那我可以在一個月內跟您要到書面報告嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：可以。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員發言。","請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}