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\"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 489.576, \"end\": 489.676, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 489.676, \"end\": 489.836, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 489.836, \"end\": 489.976, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 489.976, \"end\": 490.216, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 490.216, \"end\": 490.356, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 490.356, \"end\": 490.456, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 490.456, \"end\": 490.576, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 490.576, \"end\": 490.996, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 490.996, \"end\": 491.376, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 491.376, \"end\": 491.576, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 491.576, \"end\": 491.857, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 491.857, \"end\": 491.997, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"破\", 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811.157, \"end\": 811.497, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"琳\", \"start\": 811.497, \"end\": 811.737, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"瑯\"}, {\"word\": \"滿\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 811.737, \"end\": 811.757, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 813.348, \"end\": 842.457, \"text\": \"三天下訂 三天到貨千元有找 滿千送百還有會員所以本席要講的就是說這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的那但是到目前為止提了那麼久了結果如果有法源的依據只要衛福部那邊一定有法源依據衛福部從以前到現在陰害防治法就有法源依據\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 813.348, \"end\": 813.588, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 813.588, \"end\": 813.848, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 813.848, \"end\": 814.828, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 814.828, \"end\": 815.069, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 815.069, \"end\": 815.309, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 815.309, \"end\": 817.169, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"貨\"}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 817.169, \"end\": 817.409, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"元\", 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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 860.308, \"end\": 860.488, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 860.488, \"end\": 861.068, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 861.068, \"end\": 861.189, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 861.189, \"end\": 861.209, \"score\": 0.027}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 862.209, \"end\": 882.937, \"text\": \"就是電子菸哪些網站是合法哪些電子菸是合法所以本席現在確認兩件事情第一是可以做到的現在技術本來就可以技術上可以做到有法律上創意私房的時候一天內那個論壇就可以下架對那個是衛福部發新聞給我們那我們現在我也已經不只一次要求前任部長現任部長我也會講\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 862.209, \"end\": 862.329, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 862.329, \"end\": 862.949, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 862.949, \"end\": 863.51, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"菸\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 863.51, \"end\": 863.73, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 863.73, \"end\": 864.15, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": 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00:01:20,699\n好謝謝委員的隨詢基本上海嵐目前在海嵐的狀況我們在速發部的官網都及時的更新像昨天又更新一筆目前有三個海嵐是有故障的情形三個海嵐有故障是另外三個是計劃性維修以上報告好那最近本席有看到社群媒體平台在昨天晚上有一個貼文寫說出大事台灣海底電纜又斷了\n\n5\n00:01:22,020 --> 00:01:48,129\n那其中這一條他就指的是這個海峽中線1號是不是TSE1來有沒有掌握是這個狀況是不是說明一下包委員海峽觀覽1號目前為止有部分新覽中斷但是那個中斷不是在所謂的使用的觀覽上它只是一條觀覽中斷那一條海覽裡頭有非常多的光纖只是斷了一條那這一條並沒有影響通訊\n\n6\n00:01:48,709 --> 00:02:09,757\n那我們也在前面已經在公告跟委員報告10月27號已經有把這個訊息有公告出來但是事實上完全不影響通訊以上報告完全不影響通訊那不過在這個網站上面它看起來它是呈現是一個中斷的狀況並且它是變成是紅線所以這我想也利用這個機會給你闢謠一下或說讓\n\n7\n00:02:11,408 --> 00:02:27,314\n所有國人在使用網路的可以安心因為畢竟我們看到社群媒體平台是有這樣的一個討論而且討論蠻熱烈的所以你說不影響這個通訊那另外一個部分是說那有沒有什麼樣造成的原因是什麼有沒有掌握了\n\n8\n00:02:28,062 --> 00:02:47,989\n包委員目前為止我們我還是因為上次有一個新聞事件就台灣海岸斷9條所以自此以後速發部會及時的更新我們的網頁我們現在先講這個海峽光線1號有沒有掌握它的這個斷裂或是說你說停損的原因是什麼\n\n9\n00:02:49,089 --> 00:03:05,446\n目前海嵐在維修的時候目前為止看到是沒有人為的一個情形那至於詳細的斷裂原因比如說自然原因是什麼原因還要等海嵐真正維修撈起來後才會更清楚以上報告所以什麼時候可以確認目前為止它現在這個維修它是官方維修還是這個民間維修\n\n10\n00:03:06,892 --> 00:03:23,015\n報告委員所有的海嵐維修都是由民間在維修的那目前所以這一條他是民間所有是沒錯那目前的狀況是維修的情形海嵐現在海嵐業者還在評估當中因為海嵐還在釣海嵐船是好來部長\n\n11\n00:03:24,690 --> 00:03:49,682\n部長本席之前在外交國防委員會也有這個相關議題的時候本席就非常的重視國安局報告說每年至少有七到八條的台灣海欄對外海欄是斷裂或是說破損的狀況近幾年近三年有25次那本席也問了就是說如果在國安局的這個報告裡面或者是說我們今天所謂的海欄七法其實講白了啦是\n\n12\n00:03:50,362 --> 00:04:00,981\n只指一個源頭如果說撇除意外的狀況只指一個源頭就是我們認為是中共中國大陸刻意的破壞台灣對外的一個聯繫有沒有這樣的狀況\n\n13\n00:04:03,468 --> 00:04:27,449\n是關於這個海嵐這個破壞剛剛委員提到其實就是事情的重點因為現在台灣面對的是敵對就是中國大陸那邊的一些灰色地帶襲擾他這些灰色地帶襲擾就是讓我們很難去判斷說他到底是故意的還是是無意的他就算是故意的他又裝作是那個無意的不小心就是過失那過失我們又很難\n\n14\n00:04:28,109 --> 00:04:51,407\n判斷我們現在要討論這些相關的修法那你們其實源頭都指的是說就是刻意要破壞嘛是那但是我也問啦25次的近三年25次的一個破壞那到底我們有求償幾次你知道答案嗎是我們國安局這邊給我們的回覆說25次裡面只求償了兩次啊\n\n15\n00:04:53,408 --> 00:05:20,156\n那我們也在問是說那如果說你今天我們不管我們的法令要定的多嚴格我們希望是說能夠保護但是兩個部分嘛一個是如果說破壞的時候而且我還問球場是誰來球場也是民間嘛跟我們官方沒有辦法有任何我是甚至講是說如果我們真的講要抗中保台啦民進黨政府要做真的那你陸委會代位球場啊你法務部代位球場啊\n\n16\n00:05:21,581 --> 00:05:31,839\n海委會代位求償啊印起來嘛打國際官司嘛也沒有也是要推給民間那中華電信有沒有去處理25次2次\n\n17\n00:05:34,404 --> 00:05:54,278\n所以我們現在講的是說現在我們要加強不管是海蘭七法我們這相關的法例能夠加強台灣的通訊安全保障資安我都支持但是我們有沒有做實事有沒有面對到問題去處理問題還是說只要是傳之過來我甚至查到最新一個新聞是\n\n18\n00:05:55,686 --> 00:06:07,017\n8月底是他是說一個陸級的船長他破壞了中華電信的1700萬的海纜要維修就到最後侵犯三年是那有沒有球場\n\n19\n00:06:08,004 --> 00:06:29,554\n是跟委員報告因為這些海嵐都是民間機構所擁有的所以當然要訴訟要求償當然是必須由民間的這些海嵐公司來要求那我們真正是不行的時候我們才需要做像是代位求償這種事情所以什麼時候有可能啟動代位求償你這樣講是說有可能喔\n\n20\n00:06:30,981 --> 00:06:49,481\n如果民間需求民間處理不了的話我們當然過去幾年過去三年25次的斷線民間有沒有提過說要代位球場那今天速發部願意跳出來我覺得很好啊是能不能代位球場我覺得如果這樣的話我們支持有意義喔是這個事情我們會不會去研究\n\n21\n00:06:51,940 --> 00:07:21,036\n部長是立法院法治局指出法規沒有規定領海外我國海欄被破壞的處罰事項建議修正經濟部速發部都回應如果新增意外的效力條款容易引發管轄權的爭議是建議不建議修正法治局又提說過失損毀應該要負民事責任速發部或經濟部又認為現行民法已經有相關規範不建議修正那不就是玩假的嗎\n\n22\n00:07:23,035 --> 00:07:45,509\n你剛又在講是說我講中華電信因為最大的這個業主是中華電信嘛那中華電信的海嵐破壞了過去這三年中華電信還算是我們官方機關辦官方機關結果他也沒有我不知道是說是過去沒有這樣的管道讓中華電信能夠來拜託請求代位求償還是明明有管道他們不願意申請\n\n23\n00:07:47,025 --> 00:08:12,597\n那另外第二個部分是說我們現在臨海以外的被破壞的一個行為我們也沒有任何的辦法是這個關於這臨海以外我們是不是有管轄權我們在法律上是不是可以去去處罰他這個是涉及那個法律的專業那我們請那個我們法治處處長我們因為這個是國際的狀況我相信不會是只有台灣的台南會被破壞沒錯沒錯國外怎麼做\n\n24\n00:08:15,771 --> 00:08:31,314\n是我們至少沒有辦法跟美國學習我們跟韓國學習跟日本學習總可以吧那日本怎麼做韓國怎麼做我們去研究如果說他們公海上面領海以外日本的海欄被破壞他們怎麼做\n\n25\n00:08:32,065 --> 00:08:56,387\n是包括委員依照聯合國的海洋法公約113條的規定也不是這個113條而是除了有沒有普遍的管轄權應該是除了海盜罪以外其他的罪行大致上都沒有普遍的管轄權也就是不適合在意外行使對於傳奇國的一個管轄那所以那他們怎麼做如果說日本政府他們面臨到海瀾被破壞\n\n26\n00:08:57,335 --> 00:09:20,768\n所以他們也是回歸到海洋法113條的規定來處理也就是只有領海內來做一個執法的一個範圍好啦來部長要扯到後面又講說我們不是聯合國的會員等等的你又又繞回來了老問題我覺得要面對問題我們也希望是說能夠支持但是如果說海外電纜被破壞都無法可管那修法不是等於修半套嗎\n\n27\n00:09:21,894 --> 00:09:50,615\n是但是這個是很殘酷的國際現實我們並不是美國像美國最近那個川普總統常常利用一些海盜就是覺得是海盜的原因去做一些那個境外公海上的那個執法但是台灣並沒有辦法這樣做所以我們還是必須遵守這個國際的法律的這些規定那這個是我們很不幸我們台灣並不是像沒有如果說你要這樣講的話那我就很期待民進黨政府硬起來我支持\n\n28\n00:09:51,960 --> 00:10:06,210\n如果說誰破壞我們台灣的海欄真的有罪證確鑿的話硬起來啊美國政府可以做到台灣政府做不到不是說台美關係史上最佳嗎學一學嘛來最後一分鐘啦不好意思稍微站起來等一下我九分鐘啦\n\n29\n00:10:07,071 --> 00:10:25,600\n我看到昨天速發部為了防堵跨境的購物造成非洲豬瘟的一個破口所以說馬上找了GoogleMetaLine跟TikTok四大網路平台來延商那重點其實主要就是要提供關鍵字就不讓豬肉製品能夠進口我想先請教這個其實這是源頭管理我認同\n\n30\n00:10:26,420 --> 00:10:47,046\n就是說你連購物平台上面不管是接下來要進來的雙11你連買或是看都不能看到肉乾肉鬆等等肉製品那你連下單都沒有辦法下單你當然就不會透過平台進來嘛所以現在有可以把握我們台灣所有的購物平台上面都不會再出現\n\n31\n00:10:48,286 --> 00:11:15,018\n外境外的豬肉製品這是我們努力的目標那我們這個盡量用關鍵字去搜尋難免有時候會有些人疏漏的地方疏漏的時候我們發現就會馬上再通知這些平台馬上要求他們更新他們的所以不會讓民眾在購物網站上面可以找到這些豬肉製品我會從資訊流金流以及物流三方來處理可以做得到嘛是好那本席講另外一個我長期關注的議題是\n\n32\n00:11:16,702 --> 00:11:45,501\n電子菸現在在台灣合法嗎這個要問衛福部什麼還要問衛福部你有沒有一點commonsense電子菸在台灣合不合法還要問衛福部喔是有沒有commonsensecommonsense吧這算是電子菸在台灣合不合法委員好我知道今天的問題點了原來到目前為止速發部都不知道電子菸在台灣合不合法槍枝在台灣合不合法這commonsense吧\n\n33\n00:11:46,540 --> 00:12:02,008\n槍枝當然要看是使用的人一般民眾是違法的但是軍人還有警察當然是合法能不能在網路上可以買得到槍不行嘛能不能在網路上買得到毒品不行嘛那電子菸合不合法\n\n34\n00:12:03,568 --> 00:12:23,118\n來來來剛剛你沒有來回答一下一分鐘剛才我的一分鐘很寶貴因為我的了解當然電子菸依照衛福部的規定現在是不合法非常好來那從本席過去也一直從上一任部長位置講就是說如果不合法的話怎麼可以那麼輕易的我們Google不用打任何的隱蔽的\n\n35\n00:12:24,638 --> 00:12:40,889\n隱晦的字眼我打電子菸三個字就可以出現官方網站購買電子菸還可以直接下單然後三天之內他寄到7-11還不用查身份證件我就可以直接來買這行之有年欸那我一直提說你應該是\n\n36\n00:12:43,210 --> 00:13:04,201\n不管境內境外重點來來來重點在於是重點在於是跟我剛剛討論非洲豬瘟是一樣的道理重點在於是台灣2300萬人能不能用我們的Google我在台灣上Google能不能查到這些資訊嘛如果說你剛剛講說非洲豬瘟我都可以一天時間把四大平台業者找來並且要求他們就是屏蔽\n\n37\n00:13:05,262 --> 00:13:31,757\n我不能出現豬肉製品我連讓你下單都沒有辦法下單所以你根本不會買也不會進來嘛我肯定我肯定但一樣的道理那電子煙呢到目前為止你你等一下可以請同仁隨便一個幕僚查電子煙三字你都不用打任何的那種隱晦的字眼就電子煙你就可以出現在首頁Google的第一個搜尋就可以出現電子煙官方網站琳瑯滿目\n\n38\n00:13:33,348 --> 00:14:02,457\n三天下訂三天到貨千元有找滿千送百還有會員所以本席要講的就是說這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的那但是到目前為止提了那麼久了結果如果有法源的依據只要衛福部那邊一定有法源依據衛福部從以前到現在陰害防治法就有法源依據\n\n39\n00:14:03,437 --> 00:14:21,209\n所以現在又推給衛福部處理不是因為這個是政府的分工的問題我們速發部我們第一次做言論管制我想部長這絕對不是言論管制你怎麼會提到言論管制呢違法違禁品毒品販賣在網路上結果你跟我講言論管制我的意思是說這個事情不是由我們判斷就是說這個\n\n40\n00:14:22,209 --> 00:14:42,937\n就是電子菸哪些網站是合法哪些電子菸是合法所以本席現在確認兩件事情第一是可以做到的現在技術本來就可以技術上可以做到有法律上創意私房的時候一天內那個論壇就可以下架對那個是衛福部發新聞給我們那我們現在我也已經不只一次要求前任部長現任部長我也會講\n\n41\n00:14:43,837 --> 00:14:58,611\n但是我要求的是不要互推皮球這一點真的是所有國小國中高中的家長都很擔心就像棒球隊一樣有那個內野有投手各自有各自的分工但是我們要合作\n\n42\n00:14:59,011 --> 00:15:14,638\n那這個自求對決就是要各自分工本席這個議題會持續追我也看什麼時候衛福部跟觸發部要硬起來可以共同的讓國人不要受到這個危害本席會再追這個事情謝謝非常謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3925\t11820\t好 感謝主席 大聯盟裁判都是一樣但我們也期待部會直球對決來 請速發部部長好 請部長\n20748\t45291\t好 部長委員長今天海蘭七法其實我想不管國安治安治安都是全台2350萬人共同要求也共同期待也共同要注意的所以我們不分黨派共同來努力但是我想先了解一下說我們有沒有針對我們最正需要面對的問題來去對症下藥請教一下現在我們海蘭\n46252\t56540\t海底電纜裡面到底我們現在有幾條是目前還在這個進行中是斷裂的狀況這件事情是不是可以請我們那個任慶司來簡單說明一下好不好\n58178\t80699\t好 謝謝委員的隨詢基本上海嵐目前在海嵐的狀況我們在速發部的官網都及時的更新像昨天又更新一筆目前有三個海嵐是有故障的情形三個海嵐有故障是 另外三個是計劃性維修 以上報告好 那最近本席有看到社群媒體平台在昨天晚上有一個貼文寫說出大事 台灣海底電纜又斷了\n82020\t108129\t那其中這一條他就指的是這個海峽中線1號是不是 TSE1來 有沒有掌握是 這個狀況是不是說明一下包委員 海峽觀覽1號目前為止有部分新覽中斷但是那個中斷不是在所謂的使用的觀覽上它只是一條觀覽中斷那一條海覽裡頭有非常多的光纖只是斷了一條那這一條並沒有影響通訊\n108709\t129757\t那我們也在前面已經在公告跟委員報告10月27號已經有把這個訊息有公告出來但是事實上完全不影響通訊以上報告完全不影響通訊那不過在這個網站上面它看起來它是呈現是一個中斷的狀況並且它是變成是紅線所以這我想也利用這個機會給你闢謠一下或說讓\n131408\t147314\t所有國人在使用網路的可以安心因為畢竟我們看到社群媒體平台是有這樣的一個討論而且討論蠻熱烈的所以你說不影響這個通訊那另外一個部分是說那有沒有什麼樣造成的原因是什麼有沒有掌握了\n148062\t167989\t包委員目前為止我們我還是因為上次有一個新聞事件就台灣海岸斷9條所以自此以後速發部會及時的更新我們的網頁我們現在先講這個海峽光線1號有沒有掌握它的這個斷裂或是說你說停損的原因是什麼\n169089\t185446\t目前海嵐在維修的時候目前為止看到是沒有人為的一個情形那至於詳細的斷裂原因比如說自然原因是什麼原因還要等海嵐真正維修撈起來後才會更清楚以上報告所以什麼時候可以確認目前為止它現在這個維修它是官方維修還是這個民間維修\n186892\t203015\t報告委員所有的海嵐維修都是由民間在維修的那目前所以這一條他是民間所有是沒錯那目前的狀況是維修的情形海嵐現在海嵐業者還在評估當中因為海嵐還在釣海嵐船是好來部長\n204690\t229682\t部長本席之前在外交國防委員會也有這個相關議題的時候本席就非常的重視國安局報告說每年至少有七到八條的台灣海欄對外海欄是斷裂或是說破損的狀況近幾年近三年有25次那本席也問了就是說如果在國安局的這個報告裡面或者是說我們今天所謂的海欄七法其實講白了啦是\n230362\t240981\t只指一個源頭如果說撇除意外的狀況只指一個源頭就是我們認為是中共中國大陸刻意的破壞台灣對外的一個聯繫有沒有這樣的狀況\n243468\t267449\t是關於這個海嵐這個破壞剛剛委員提到其實就是事情的重點因為現在台灣面對的是敵對就是中國大陸那邊的一些灰色地帶襲擾他這些灰色地帶襲擾就是讓我們很難去判斷說他到底是故意的還是是無意的他就算是故意的他又裝作是那個無意的不小心就是過失那過失我們又很難\n268109\t291407\t判斷我們現在要討論這些相關的修法那你們其實源頭都指的是說就是刻意要破壞嘛是那但是我也問啦25次的近三年25次的一個破壞那到底我們有求償幾次你知道答案嗎是我們國安局這邊給我們的回覆說25次裡面只求償了兩次啊\n293408\t320156\t那我們也在問是說那如果說你今天我們不管我們的法令要定的多嚴格我們希望是說能夠保護但是兩個部分嘛一個是如果說破壞的時候而且我還問球場是誰來球場也是民間嘛跟我們官方沒有辦法有任何我是甚至講是說如果我們真的講要抗中保台啦民進黨政府要做真的那你陸委會代位球場啊你法務部代位球場啊\n321581\t331839\t海委會代位求償啊印起來嘛打國際官司嘛也沒有也是要推給民間那中華電信有沒有去處理25次 2次\n334404\t354278\t所以我們現在講的是說現在我們要加強不管是海蘭七法我們這相關的法例能夠加強台灣的通訊安全保障資安我都支持但是我們有沒有做實事有沒有面對到問題去處理問題還是說只要是傳之過來我甚至查到最新一個新聞是\n355686\t367017\t8月底是他是說一個陸級的船長他破壞了中華電信的1700萬的海纜要維修就到最後侵犯三年是那有沒有球場\n368004\t389554\t是 跟委員報告因為這些海嵐都是民間機構所擁有的所以當然要訴訟要求償當然是必須由民間的這些海嵐公司來要求那我們真正是不行的時候我們才需要做像是代位求償這種事情所以什麼時候有可能啟動代位求償你這樣講是說有可能喔\n390981\t409481\t如果民間需求 民間處理不了的話我們當然過去幾年 過去三年25次的斷線民間有沒有提過說要代位球場那今天速發部願意跳出來我覺得很好啊是能不能代位球場我覺得如果這樣的話我們支持有意義喔是這個事情我們會不會去研究\n411940\t441036\t部長是立法院法治局指出法規沒有規定領海外我國海欄被破壞的處罰事項建議修正經濟部速發部都回應如果新增意外的效力條款容易引發管轄權的爭議是建議不建議修正法治局又提說過失損毀應該要負民事責任速發部或經濟部又認為現行民法已經有相關規範不建議修正那不就是玩假的嗎\n443035\t465509\t你剛又在講是說我講中華電信因為最大的這個業主是中華電信嘛那中華電信的海嵐破壞了過去這三年中華電信還算是我們官方機關辦官方機關結果他也沒有我不知道是說是過去沒有這樣的管道讓中華電信能夠來拜託請求代位求償還是明明有管道他們不願意申請\n467025\t492597\t那另外第二個部分是說我們現在臨海以外的被破壞的一個行為我們也沒有任何的辦法是這個關於這臨海以外我們是不是有管轄權我們在法律上是不是可以去去處罰他這個是涉及那個法律的專業那我們請那個我們法治處處長我們因為這個是國際的狀況我相信不會是只有台灣的台南會被破壞沒錯沒錯國外怎麼做\n495771\t511314\t是我們至少沒有辦法跟美國學習我們跟韓國學習 跟日本學習總可以吧那日本怎麼做 韓國怎麼做 我們去研究如果說他們公海上面 領海以外日本的海欄被破壞 他們怎麼做\n512065\t536387\t是 包括委員依照聯合國的海洋法公約113條的規定也不是這個113條而是除了有沒有普遍的管轄權應該是除了海盜罪以外其他的罪行大致上都沒有普遍的管轄權也就是不適合在意外行使對於傳奇國的一個管轄那所以 那他們怎麼做如果說日本政府他們面臨到海瀾被破壞\n537335\t560768\t所以他們也是回歸到海洋法113條的規定來處理也就是只有領海內來做一個執法的一個範圍好啦 來 部長要扯到後面又講說我們不是聯合國的會員等等的你又又繞回來了老問題我覺得要面對問題我們也希望是說能夠支持但是如果說海外電纜被破壞都無法可管那修法不是等於修半套嗎\n561894\t590615\t是但是這個是很殘酷的國際現實我們並不是美國像美國最近那個川普總統常常利用一些海盜就是覺得是海盜的原因去做一些那個境外公海上的那個執法但是台灣並沒有辦法這樣做所以我們還是必須遵守這個國際的法律的這些規定那這個是我們很不幸我們台灣並不是像沒有如果說你要這樣講的話那我就很期待民進黨政府硬起來我支持\n591960\t606210\t如果說誰破壞我們台灣的海欄真的有罪證確鑿的話硬起來啊美國政府可以做到台灣政府做不到不是說台美關係史上最佳嗎學一學嘛來最後一分鐘啦不好意思稍微站起來等一下我九分鐘啦\n607071\t625600\t我看到昨天速發部為了防堵跨境的購物造成非洲豬瘟的一個破口所以說馬上找了Google Meta Line跟TikTok四大網路平台來延商那重點其實主要就是要提供關鍵字就不讓豬肉製品能夠進口我想先請教這個其實這是源頭管理我認同\n626420\t647046\t就是說你連購物平台上面不管是接下來要進來的雙11你連買或是看都不能看到肉乾肉鬆等等肉製品那你連下單都沒有辦法下單你當然就不會透過平台進來嘛所以現在有可以把握我們台灣所有的購物平台上面都不會再出現\n648286\t675018\t外境外的豬肉製品這是我們努力的目標那我們這個盡量用關鍵字去搜尋難免有時候會有些人疏漏的地方疏漏的時候我們發現就會馬上再通知這些平台馬上要求他們更新他們的所以不會讓民眾在購物網站上面可以找到這些豬肉製品我會從資訊流 金流以及物流三方來處理可以做得到嘛是好 那本席講另外一個我長期關注的議題是\n676702\t705501\t電子菸現在在台灣合法嗎這個要問衛福部什麼還要問衛福部你有沒有一點common sense電子菸在台灣合不合法還要問衛福部喔是有沒有common sensecommon sense吧這算是電子菸在台灣合不合法委員好我知道今天的問題點了原來到目前為止速發部都不知道電子菸在台灣合不合法槍枝在台灣合不合法這common sense吧\n706540\t722008\t槍枝當然要看是使用的人一般民眾是違法的但是軍人還有警察當然是合法能不能在網路上可以買得到槍 不行嘛能不能在網路上買得到毒品 不行嘛那電子菸合不合法\n723568\t743118\t來來來剛剛你沒有來回答一下一分鐘剛才我的一分鐘很寶貴因為我的了解當然電子菸依照衛福部的規定現在是不合法非常好來那從本席過去也一直從上一任部長位置講就是說如果不合法的話怎麼可以那麼輕易的我們Google不用打任何的隱蔽的\n744638\t760889\t隱晦的字眼我打電子菸三個字就可以出現官方網站購買電子菸還可以直接下單然後三天之內他寄到7-11還不用查身份證件我就可以直接來買這行之有年欸那我一直提說你應該是\n763210\t784201\t不管境內境外 重點來來來 重點在於是重點在於是跟我剛剛討論非洲豬瘟是一樣的道理重點在於是台灣2300萬人能不能用我們的Google我在台灣上Google能不能查到這些資訊嘛如果說你剛剛講說非洲豬瘟我都可以一天時間把四大平台業者找來並且要求他們就是屏蔽\n785262\t811757\t我不能出現豬肉製品我連讓你下單都沒有辦法下單所以你根本不會買也不會進來嘛我肯定我肯定但一樣的道理那電子煙呢到目前為止你你等一下可以請同仁隨便一個幕僚查電子煙三字你都不用打任何的那種隱晦的字眼就電子煙你就可以出現在首頁Google的第一個搜尋就可以出現電子煙官方網站琳瑯滿目\n813348\t842457\t三天下訂 三天到貨千元有找 滿千送百還有會員所以本席要講的就是說這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的那但是到目前為止提了那麼久了結果如果有法源的依據只要衛福部那邊一定有法源依據衛福部從以前到現在陰害防治法就有法源依據\n843437\t861209\t所以現在又推給衛福部處理不是因為這個是政府的分工的問題我們速發部我們第一次做言論管制我想部長這絕對不是言論管制你怎麼會提到言論管制呢違法違禁品毒品販賣在網路上結果你跟我講言論管制我的意思是說這個事情不是由我們判斷就是說這個\n862209\t882937\t就是電子菸哪些網站是合法哪些電子菸是合法所以本席現在確認兩件事情第一是可以做到的現在技術本來就可以技術上可以做到有法律上創意私房的時候一天內那個論壇就可以下架對那個是衛福部發新聞給我們那我們現在我也已經不只一次要求前任部長現任部長我也會講\n883837\t898611\t但是我要求的是不要互推皮球這一點真的是所有國小國中高中的家長都很擔心就像棒球隊一樣有那個內野有投手各自有各自的分工但是我們要合作\n899011\t914638\t那這個自求對決就是要各自分工本席這個議題會持續追我也看什麼時候衛福部跟觸發部要硬起來可以共同的讓國人不要受到這個危害本席會再追這個事情謝謝 非常謝謝謝謝部長\n","txt":"好 感謝主席 大聯盟裁判都是一樣但我們也期待部會直球對決來 請速發部部長好 請部長\n好 部長委員長今天海蘭七法其實我想不管國安治安治安都是全台2350萬人共同要求也共同期待也共同要注意的所以我們不分黨派共同來努力但是我想先了解一下說我們有沒有針對我們最正需要面對的問題來去對症下藥請教一下現在我們海蘭\n海底電纜裡面到底我們現在有幾條是目前還在這個進行中是斷裂的狀況這件事情是不是可以請我們那個任慶司來簡單說明一下好不好\n好 謝謝委員的隨詢基本上海嵐目前在海嵐的狀況我們在速發部的官網都及時的更新像昨天又更新一筆目前有三個海嵐是有故障的情形三個海嵐有故障是 另外三個是計劃性維修 以上報告好 那最近本席有看到社群媒體平台在昨天晚上有一個貼文寫說出大事 台灣海底電纜又斷了\n那其中這一條他就指的是這個海峽中線1號是不是 TSE1來 有沒有掌握是 這個狀況是不是說明一下包委員 海峽觀覽1號目前為止有部分新覽中斷但是那個中斷不是在所謂的使用的觀覽上它只是一條觀覽中斷那一條海覽裡頭有非常多的光纖只是斷了一條那這一條並沒有影響通訊\n那我們也在前面已經在公告跟委員報告10月27號已經有把這個訊息有公告出來但是事實上完全不影響通訊以上報告完全不影響通訊那不過在這個網站上面它看起來它是呈現是一個中斷的狀況並且它是變成是紅線所以這我想也利用這個機會給你闢謠一下或說讓\n所有國人在使用網路的可以安心因為畢竟我們看到社群媒體平台是有這樣的一個討論而且討論蠻熱烈的所以你說不影響這個通訊那另外一個部分是說那有沒有什麼樣造成的原因是什麼有沒有掌握了\n包委員目前為止我們我還是因為上次有一個新聞事件就台灣海岸斷9條所以自此以後速發部會及時的更新我們的網頁我們現在先講這個海峽光線1號有沒有掌握它的這個斷裂或是說你說停損的原因是什麼\n目前海嵐在維修的時候目前為止看到是沒有人為的一個情形那至於詳細的斷裂原因比如說自然原因是什麼原因還要等海嵐真正維修撈起來後才會更清楚以上報告所以什麼時候可以確認目前為止它現在這個維修它是官方維修還是這個民間維修\n報告委員所有的海嵐維修都是由民間在維修的那目前所以這一條他是民間所有是沒錯那目前的狀況是維修的情形海嵐現在海嵐業者還在評估當中因為海嵐還在釣海嵐船是好來部長\n部長本席之前在外交國防委員會也有這個相關議題的時候本席就非常的重視國安局報告說每年至少有七到八條的台灣海欄對外海欄是斷裂或是說破損的狀況近幾年近三年有25次那本席也問了就是說如果在國安局的這個報告裡面或者是說我們今天所謂的海欄七法其實講白了啦是\n只指一個源頭如果說撇除意外的狀況只指一個源頭就是我們認為是中共中國大陸刻意的破壞台灣對外的一個聯繫有沒有這樣的狀況\n是關於這個海嵐這個破壞剛剛委員提到其實就是事情的重點因為現在台灣面對的是敵對就是中國大陸那邊的一些灰色地帶襲擾他這些灰色地帶襲擾就是讓我們很難去判斷說他到底是故意的還是是無意的他就算是故意的他又裝作是那個無意的不小心就是過失那過失我們又很難\n判斷我們現在要討論這些相關的修法那你們其實源頭都指的是說就是刻意要破壞嘛是那但是我也問啦25次的近三年25次的一個破壞那到底我們有求償幾次你知道答案嗎是我們國安局這邊給我們的回覆說25次裡面只求償了兩次啊\n那我們也在問是說那如果說你今天我們不管我們的法令要定的多嚴格我們希望是說能夠保護但是兩個部分嘛一個是如果說破壞的時候而且我還問球場是誰來球場也是民間嘛跟我們官方沒有辦法有任何我是甚至講是說如果我們真的講要抗中保台啦民進黨政府要做真的那你陸委會代位球場啊你法務部代位球場啊\n海委會代位求償啊印起來嘛打國際官司嘛也沒有也是要推給民間那中華電信有沒有去處理25次 2次\n所以我們現在講的是說現在我們要加強不管是海蘭七法我們這相關的法例能夠加強台灣的通訊安全保障資安我都支持但是我們有沒有做實事有沒有面對到問題去處理問題還是說只要是傳之過來我甚至查到最新一個新聞是\n8月底是他是說一個陸級的船長他破壞了中華電信的1700萬的海纜要維修就到最後侵犯三年是那有沒有球場\n是 跟委員報告因為這些海嵐都是民間機構所擁有的所以當然要訴訟要求償當然是必須由民間的這些海嵐公司來要求那我們真正是不行的時候我們才需要做像是代位求償這種事情所以什麼時候有可能啟動代位求償你這樣講是說有可能喔\n如果民間需求 民間處理不了的話我們當然過去幾年 過去三年25次的斷線民間有沒有提過說要代位球場那今天速發部願意跳出來我覺得很好啊是能不能代位球場我覺得如果這樣的話我們支持有意義喔是這個事情我們會不會去研究\n部長是立法院法治局指出法規沒有規定領海外我國海欄被破壞的處罰事項建議修正經濟部速發部都回應如果新增意外的效力條款容易引發管轄權的爭議是建議不建議修正法治局又提說過失損毀應該要負民事責任速發部或經濟部又認為現行民法已經有相關規範不建議修正那不就是玩假的嗎\n你剛又在講是說我講中華電信因為最大的這個業主是中華電信嘛那中華電信的海嵐破壞了過去這三年中華電信還算是我們官方機關辦官方機關結果他也沒有我不知道是說是過去沒有這樣的管道讓中華電信能夠來拜託請求代位求償還是明明有管道他們不願意申請\n那另外第二個部分是說我們現在臨海以外的被破壞的一個行為我們也沒有任何的辦法是這個關於這臨海以外我們是不是有管轄權我們在法律上是不是可以去去處罰他這個是涉及那個法律的專業那我們請那個我們法治處處長我們因為這個是國際的狀況我相信不會是只有台灣的台南會被破壞沒錯沒錯國外怎麼做\n是我們至少沒有辦法跟美國學習我們跟韓國學習 跟日本學習總可以吧那日本怎麼做 韓國怎麼做 我們去研究如果說他們公海上面 領海以外日本的海欄被破壞 他們怎麼做\n是 包括委員依照聯合國的海洋法公約113條的規定也不是這個113條而是除了有沒有普遍的管轄權應該是除了海盜罪以外其他的罪行大致上都沒有普遍的管轄權也就是不適合在意外行使對於傳奇國的一個管轄那所以 那他們怎麼做如果說日本政府他們面臨到海瀾被破壞\n所以他們也是回歸到海洋法113條的規定來處理也就是只有領海內來做一個執法的一個範圍好啦 來 部長要扯到後面又講說我們不是聯合國的會員等等的你又又繞回來了老問題我覺得要面對問題我們也希望是說能夠支持但是如果說海外電纜被破壞都無法可管那修法不是等於修半套嗎\n是但是這個是很殘酷的國際現實我們並不是美國像美國最近那個川普總統常常利用一些海盜就是覺得是海盜的原因去做一些那個境外公海上的那個執法但是台灣並沒有辦法這樣做所以我們還是必須遵守這個國際的法律的這些規定那這個是我們很不幸我們台灣並不是像沒有如果說你要這樣講的話那我就很期待民進黨政府硬起來我支持\n如果說誰破壞我們台灣的海欄真的有罪證確鑿的話硬起來啊美國政府可以做到台灣政府做不到不是說台美關係史上最佳嗎學一學嘛來最後一分鐘啦不好意思稍微站起來等一下我九分鐘啦\n我看到昨天速發部為了防堵跨境的購物造成非洲豬瘟的一個破口所以說馬上找了Google Meta Line跟TikTok四大網路平台來延商那重點其實主要就是要提供關鍵字就不讓豬肉製品能夠進口我想先請教這個其實這是源頭管理我認同\n就是說你連購物平台上面不管是接下來要進來的雙11你連買或是看都不能看到肉乾肉鬆等等肉製品那你連下單都沒有辦法下單你當然就不會透過平台進來嘛所以現在有可以把握我們台灣所有的購物平台上面都不會再出現\n外境外的豬肉製品這是我們努力的目標那我們這個盡量用關鍵字去搜尋難免有時候會有些人疏漏的地方疏漏的時候我們發現就會馬上再通知這些平台馬上要求他們更新他們的所以不會讓民眾在購物網站上面可以找到這些豬肉製品我會從資訊流 金流以及物流三方來處理可以做得到嘛是好 那本席講另外一個我長期關注的議題是\n電子菸現在在台灣合法嗎這個要問衛福部什麼還要問衛福部你有沒有一點common sense電子菸在台灣合不合法還要問衛福部喔是有沒有common sensecommon sense吧這算是電子菸在台灣合不合法委員好我知道今天的問題點了原來到目前為止速發部都不知道電子菸在台灣合不合法槍枝在台灣合不合法這common sense吧\n槍枝當然要看是使用的人一般民眾是違法的但是軍人還有警察當然是合法能不能在網路上可以買得到槍 不行嘛能不能在網路上買得到毒品 不行嘛那電子菸合不合法\n來來來剛剛你沒有來回答一下一分鐘剛才我的一分鐘很寶貴因為我的了解當然電子菸依照衛福部的規定現在是不合法非常好來那從本席過去也一直從上一任部長位置講就是說如果不合法的話怎麼可以那麼輕易的我們Google不用打任何的隱蔽的\n隱晦的字眼我打電子菸三個字就可以出現官方網站購買電子菸還可以直接下單然後三天之內他寄到7-11還不用查身份證件我就可以直接來買這行之有年欸那我一直提說你應該是\n不管境內境外 重點來來來 重點在於是重點在於是跟我剛剛討論非洲豬瘟是一樣的道理重點在於是台灣2300萬人能不能用我們的Google我在台灣上Google能不能查到這些資訊嘛如果說你剛剛講說非洲豬瘟我都可以一天時間把四大平台業者找來並且要求他們就是屏蔽\n我不能出現豬肉製品我連讓你下單都沒有辦法下單所以你根本不會買也不會進來嘛我肯定我肯定但一樣的道理那電子煙呢到目前為止你你等一下可以請同仁隨便一個幕僚查電子煙三字你都不用打任何的那種隱晦的字眼就電子煙你就可以出現在首頁Google的第一個搜尋就可以出現電子煙官方網站琳瑯滿目\n三天下訂 三天到貨千元有找 滿千送百還有會員所以本席要講的就是說這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的那但是到目前為止提了那麼久了結果如果有法源的依據只要衛福部那邊一定有法源依據衛福部從以前到現在陰害防治法就有法源依據\n所以現在又推給衛福部處理不是因為這個是政府的分工的問題我們速發部我們第一次做言論管制我想部長這絕對不是言論管制你怎麼會提到言論管制呢違法違禁品毒品販賣在網路上結果你跟我講言論管制我的意思是說這個事情不是由我們判斷就是說這個\n就是電子菸哪些網站是合法哪些電子菸是合法所以本席現在確認兩件事情第一是可以做到的現在技術本來就可以技術上可以做到有法律上創意私房的時候一天內那個論壇就可以下架對那個是衛福部發新聞給我們那我們現在我也已經不只一次要求前任部長現任部長我也會講\n但是我要求的是不要互推皮球這一點真的是所有國小國中高中的家長都很擔心就像棒球隊一樣有那個內野有投手各自有各自的分工但是我們要合作\n那這個自求對決就是要各自分工本席這個議題會持續追我也看什麼時候衛福部跟觸發部要硬起來可以共同的讓國人不要受到這個危害本席會再追這個事情謝謝 非常謝謝謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.925 --> 00:11.820\n好感謝主席大聯盟裁判都是一樣但我們也期待部會直球對決來請速發部部長好請部長\n\n00:20.748 --> 00:45.291\n好部長委員長今天海蘭七法其實我想不管國安治安治安都是全台2350萬人共同要求也共同期待也共同要注意的所以我們不分黨派共同來努力但是我想先了解一下說我們有沒有針對我們最正需要面對的問題來去對症下藥請教一下現在我們海蘭\n\n00:46.252 --> 00:56.540\n海底電纜裡面到底我們現在有幾條是目前還在這個進行中是斷裂的狀況這件事情是不是可以請我們那個任慶司來簡單說明一下好不好\n\n00:58.178 --> 01:20.699\n好謝謝委員的隨詢基本上海嵐目前在海嵐的狀況我們在速發部的官網都及時的更新像昨天又更新一筆目前有三個海嵐是有故障的情形三個海嵐有故障是另外三個是計劃性維修以上報告好那最近本席有看到社群媒體平台在昨天晚上有一個貼文寫說出大事台灣海底電纜又斷了\n\n01:22.020 --> 01:48.129\n那其中這一條他就指的是這個海峽中線1號是不是TSE1來有沒有掌握是這個狀況是不是說明一下包委員海峽觀覽1號目前為止有部分新覽中斷但是那個中斷不是在所謂的使用的觀覽上它只是一條觀覽中斷那一條海覽裡頭有非常多的光纖只是斷了一條那這一條並沒有影響通訊\n\n01:48.709 --> 02:09.757\n那我們也在前面已經在公告跟委員報告10月27號已經有把這個訊息有公告出來但是事實上完全不影響通訊以上報告完全不影響通訊那不過在這個網站上面它看起來它是呈現是一個中斷的狀況並且它是變成是紅線所以這我想也利用這個機會給你闢謠一下或說讓\n\n02:11.408 --> 02:27.314\n所有國人在使用網路的可以安心因為畢竟我們看到社群媒體平台是有這樣的一個討論而且討論蠻熱烈的所以你說不影響這個通訊那另外一個部分是說那有沒有什麼樣造成的原因是什麼有沒有掌握了\n\n02:28.062 --> 02:47.989\n包委員目前為止我們我還是因為上次有一個新聞事件就台灣海岸斷9條所以自此以後速發部會及時的更新我們的網頁我們現在先講這個海峽光線1號有沒有掌握它的這個斷裂或是說你說停損的原因是什麼\n\n02:49.089 --> 03:05.446\n目前海嵐在維修的時候目前為止看到是沒有人為的一個情形那至於詳細的斷裂原因比如說自然原因是什麼原因還要等海嵐真正維修撈起來後才會更清楚以上報告所以什麼時候可以確認目前為止它現在這個維修它是官方維修還是這個民間維修\n\n03:06.892 --> 03:23.015\n報告委員所有的海嵐維修都是由民間在維修的那目前所以這一條他是民間所有是沒錯那目前的狀況是維修的情形海嵐現在海嵐業者還在評估當中因為海嵐還在釣海嵐船是好來部長\n\n03:24.690 --> 03:49.682\n部長本席之前在外交國防委員會也有這個相關議題的時候本席就非常的重視國安局報告說每年至少有七到八條的台灣海欄對外海欄是斷裂或是說破損的狀況近幾年近三年有25次那本席也問了就是說如果在國安局的這個報告裡面或者是說我們今天所謂的海欄七法其實講白了啦是\n\n03:50.362 --> 04:00.981\n只指一個源頭如果說撇除意外的狀況只指一個源頭就是我們認為是中共中國大陸刻意的破壞台灣對外的一個聯繫有沒有這樣的狀況\n\n04:03.468 --> 04:27.449\n是關於這個海嵐這個破壞剛剛委員提到其實就是事情的重點因為現在台灣面對的是敵對就是中國大陸那邊的一些灰色地帶襲擾他這些灰色地帶襲擾就是讓我們很難去判斷說他到底是故意的還是是無意的他就算是故意的他又裝作是那個無意的不小心就是過失那過失我們又很難\n\n04:28.109 --> 04:51.407\n判斷我們現在要討論這些相關的修法那你們其實源頭都指的是說就是刻意要破壞嘛是那但是我也問啦25次的近三年25次的一個破壞那到底我們有求償幾次你知道答案嗎是我們國安局這邊給我們的回覆說25次裡面只求償了兩次啊\n\n04:53.408 --> 05:20.156\n那我們也在問是說那如果說你今天我們不管我們的法令要定的多嚴格我們希望是說能夠保護但是兩個部分嘛一個是如果說破壞的時候而且我還問球場是誰來球場也是民間嘛跟我們官方沒有辦法有任何我是甚至講是說如果我們真的講要抗中保台啦民進黨政府要做真的那你陸委會代位球場啊你法務部代位球場啊\n\n05:21.581 --> 05:31.839\n海委會代位求償啊印起來嘛打國際官司嘛也沒有也是要推給民間那中華電信有沒有去處理25次2次\n\n05:34.404 --> 05:54.278\n所以我們現在講的是說現在我們要加強不管是海蘭七法我們這相關的法例能夠加強台灣的通訊安全保障資安我都支持但是我們有沒有做實事有沒有面對到問題去處理問題還是說只要是傳之過來我甚至查到最新一個新聞是\n\n05:55.686 --> 06:07.017\n8月底是他是說一個陸級的船長他破壞了中華電信的1700萬的海纜要維修就到最後侵犯三年是那有沒有球場\n\n06:08.004 --> 06:29.554\n是跟委員報告因為這些海嵐都是民間機構所擁有的所以當然要訴訟要求償當然是必須由民間的這些海嵐公司來要求那我們真正是不行的時候我們才需要做像是代位求償這種事情所以什麼時候有可能啟動代位求償你這樣講是說有可能喔\n\n06:30.981 --> 06:49.481\n如果民間需求民間處理不了的話我們當然過去幾年過去三年25次的斷線民間有沒有提過說要代位球場那今天速發部願意跳出來我覺得很好啊是能不能代位球場我覺得如果這樣的話我們支持有意義喔是這個事情我們會不會去研究\n\n06:51.940 --> 07:21.036\n部長是立法院法治局指出法規沒有規定領海外我國海欄被破壞的處罰事項建議修正經濟部速發部都回應如果新增意外的效力條款容易引發管轄權的爭議是建議不建議修正法治局又提說過失損毀應該要負民事責任速發部或經濟部又認為現行民法已經有相關規範不建議修正那不就是玩假的嗎\n\n07:23.035 --> 07:45.509\n你剛又在講是說我講中華電信因為最大的這個業主是中華電信嘛那中華電信的海嵐破壞了過去這三年中華電信還算是我們官方機關辦官方機關結果他也沒有我不知道是說是過去沒有這樣的管道讓中華電信能夠來拜託請求代位求償還是明明有管道他們不願意申請\n\n07:47.025 --> 08:12.597\n那另外第二個部分是說我們現在臨海以外的被破壞的一個行為我們也沒有任何的辦法是這個關於這臨海以外我們是不是有管轄權我們在法律上是不是可以去去處罰他這個是涉及那個法律的專業那我們請那個我們法治處處長我們因為這個是國際的狀況我相信不會是只有台灣的台南會被破壞沒錯沒錯國外怎麼做\n\n08:15.771 --> 08:31.314\n是我們至少沒有辦法跟美國學習我們跟韓國學習跟日本學習總可以吧那日本怎麼做韓國怎麼做我們去研究如果說他們公海上面領海以外日本的海欄被破壞他們怎麼做\n\n08:32.065 --> 08:56.387\n是包括委員依照聯合國的海洋法公約113條的規定也不是這個113條而是除了有沒有普遍的管轄權應該是除了海盜罪以外其他的罪行大致上都沒有普遍的管轄權也就是不適合在意外行使對於傳奇國的一個管轄那所以那他們怎麼做如果說日本政府他們面臨到海瀾被破壞\n\n08:57.335 --> 09:20.768\n所以他們也是回歸到海洋法113條的規定來處理也就是只有領海內來做一個執法的一個範圍好啦來部長要扯到後面又講說我們不是聯合國的會員等等的你又又繞回來了老問題我覺得要面對問題我們也希望是說能夠支持但是如果說海外電纜被破壞都無法可管那修法不是等於修半套嗎\n\n09:21.894 --> 09:50.615\n是但是這個是很殘酷的國際現實我們並不是美國像美國最近那個川普總統常常利用一些海盜就是覺得是海盜的原因去做一些那個境外公海上的那個執法但是台灣並沒有辦法這樣做所以我們還是必須遵守這個國際的法律的這些規定那這個是我們很不幸我們台灣並不是像沒有如果說你要這樣講的話那我就很期待民進黨政府硬起來我支持\n\n09:51.960 --> 10:06.210\n如果說誰破壞我們台灣的海欄真的有罪證確鑿的話硬起來啊美國政府可以做到台灣政府做不到不是說台美關係史上最佳嗎學一學嘛來最後一分鐘啦不好意思稍微站起來等一下我九分鐘啦\n\n10:07.071 --> 10:25.600\n我看到昨天速發部為了防堵跨境的購物造成非洲豬瘟的一個破口所以說馬上找了GoogleMetaLine跟TikTok四大網路平台來延商那重點其實主要就是要提供關鍵字就不讓豬肉製品能夠進口我想先請教這個其實這是源頭管理我認同\n\n10:26.420 --> 10:47.046\n就是說你連購物平台上面不管是接下來要進來的雙11你連買或是看都不能看到肉乾肉鬆等等肉製品那你連下單都沒有辦法下單你當然就不會透過平台進來嘛所以現在有可以把握我們台灣所有的購物平台上面都不會再出現\n\n10:48.286 --> 11:15.018\n外境外的豬肉製品這是我們努力的目標那我們這個盡量用關鍵字去搜尋難免有時候會有些人疏漏的地方疏漏的時候我們發現就會馬上再通知這些平台馬上要求他們更新他們的所以不會讓民眾在購物網站上面可以找到這些豬肉製品我會從資訊流金流以及物流三方來處理可以做得到嘛是好那本席講另外一個我長期關注的議題是\n\n11:16.702 --> 11:45.501\n電子菸現在在台灣合法嗎這個要問衛福部什麼還要問衛福部你有沒有一點commonsense電子菸在台灣合不合法還要問衛福部喔是有沒有commonsensecommonsense吧這算是電子菸在台灣合不合法委員好我知道今天的問題點了原來到目前為止速發部都不知道電子菸在台灣合不合法槍枝在台灣合不合法這commonsense吧\n\n11:46.540 --> 12:02.008\n槍枝當然要看是使用的人一般民眾是違法的但是軍人還有警察當然是合法能不能在網路上可以買得到槍不行嘛能不能在網路上買得到毒品不行嘛那電子菸合不合法\n\n12:03.568 --> 12:23.118\n來來來剛剛你沒有來回答一下一分鐘剛才我的一分鐘很寶貴因為我的了解當然電子菸依照衛福部的規定現在是不合法非常好來那從本席過去也一直從上一任部長位置講就是說如果不合法的話怎麼可以那麼輕易的我們Google不用打任何的隱蔽的\n\n12:24.638 --> 12:40.889\n隱晦的字眼我打電子菸三個字就可以出現官方網站購買電子菸還可以直接下單然後三天之內他寄到7-11還不用查身份證件我就可以直接來買這行之有年欸那我一直提說你應該是\n\n12:43.210 --> 13:04.201\n不管境內境外重點來來來重點在於是重點在於是跟我剛剛討論非洲豬瘟是一樣的道理重點在於是台灣2300萬人能不能用我們的Google我在台灣上Google能不能查到這些資訊嘛如果說你剛剛講說非洲豬瘟我都可以一天時間把四大平台業者找來並且要求他們就是屏蔽\n\n13:05.262 --> 13:31.757\n我不能出現豬肉製品我連讓你下單都沒有辦法下單所以你根本不會買也不會進來嘛我肯定我肯定但一樣的道理那電子煙呢到目前為止你你等一下可以請同仁隨便一個幕僚查電子煙三字你都不用打任何的那種隱晦的字眼就電子煙你就可以出現在首頁Google的第一個搜尋就可以出現電子煙官方網站琳瑯滿目\n\n13:33.348 --> 14:02.457\n三天下訂三天到貨千元有找滿千送百還有會員所以本席要講的就是說這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的那但是到目前為止提了那麼久了結果如果有法源的依據只要衛福部那邊一定有法源依據衛福部從以前到現在陰害防治法就有法源依據\n\n14:03.437 --> 14:21.209\n所以現在又推給衛福部處理不是因為這個是政府的分工的問題我們速發部我們第一次做言論管制我想部長這絕對不是言論管制你怎麼會提到言論管制呢違法違禁品毒品販賣在網路上結果你跟我講言論管制我的意思是說這個事情不是由我們判斷就是說這個\n\n14:22.209 --> 14:42.937\n就是電子菸哪些網站是合法哪些電子菸是合法所以本席現在確認兩件事情第一是可以做到的現在技術本來就可以技術上可以做到有法律上創意私房的時候一天內那個論壇就可以下架對那個是衛福部發新聞給我們那我們現在我也已經不只一次要求前任部長現任部長我也會講\n\n14:43.837 --> 14:58.611\n但是我要求的是不要互推皮球這一點真的是所有國小國中高中的家長都很擔心就像棒球隊一樣有那個內野有投手各自有各自的分工但是我們要合作\n\n14:59.011 --> 15:14.638\n那這個自求對決就是要各自分工本席這個議題會持續追我也看什麼時候衛福部跟觸發部要硬起來可以共同的讓國人不要受到這個危害本席會再追這個事情謝謝非常謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.925,"end":11.82,"text":"好 感謝主席 大聯盟裁判都是一樣但我們也期待部會直球對決來 請速發部部長好 請部長"},{"start":20.748,"end":45.291,"text":"好 部長委員長今天海蘭七法其實我想不管國安治安治安都是全台2350萬人共同要求也共同期待也共同要注意的所以我們不分黨派共同來努力但是我想先了解一下說我們有沒有針對我們最正需要面對的問題來去對症下藥請教一下現在我們海蘭"},{"start":46.252,"end":56.54,"text":"海底電纜裡面到底我們現在有幾條是目前還在這個進行中是斷裂的狀況這件事情是不是可以請我們那個任慶司來簡單說明一下好不好"},{"start":58.178,"end":80.699,"text":"好 謝謝委員的隨詢基本上海嵐目前在海嵐的狀況我們在速發部的官網都及時的更新像昨天又更新一筆目前有三個海嵐是有故障的情形三個海嵐有故障是 另外三個是計劃性維修 以上報告好 那最近本席有看到社群媒體平台在昨天晚上有一個貼文寫說出大事 台灣海底電纜又斷了"},{"start":82.02,"end":108.129,"text":"那其中這一條他就指的是這個海峽中線1號是不是 TSE1來 有沒有掌握是 這個狀況是不是說明一下包委員 海峽觀覽1號目前為止有部分新覽中斷但是那個中斷不是在所謂的使用的觀覽上它只是一條觀覽中斷那一條海覽裡頭有非常多的光纖只是斷了一條那這一條並沒有影響通訊"},{"start":108.709,"end":129.757,"text":"那我們也在前面已經在公告跟委員報告10月27號已經有把這個訊息有公告出來但是事實上完全不影響通訊以上報告完全不影響通訊那不過在這個網站上面它看起來它是呈現是一個中斷的狀況並且它是變成是紅線所以這我想也利用這個機會給你闢謠一下或說讓"},{"start":131.408,"end":147.314,"text":"所有國人在使用網路的可以安心因為畢竟我們看到社群媒體平台是有這樣的一個討論而且討論蠻熱烈的所以你說不影響這個通訊那另外一個部分是說那有沒有什麼樣造成的原因是什麼有沒有掌握了"},{"start":148.062,"end":167.989,"text":"包委員目前為止我們我還是因為上次有一個新聞事件就台灣海岸斷9條所以自此以後速發部會及時的更新我們的網頁我們現在先講這個海峽光線1號有沒有掌握它的這個斷裂或是說你說停損的原因是什麼"},{"start":169.089,"end":185.446,"text":"目前海嵐在維修的時候目前為止看到是沒有人為的一個情形那至於詳細的斷裂原因比如說自然原因是什麼原因還要等海嵐真正維修撈起來後才會更清楚以上報告所以什麼時候可以確認目前為止它現在這個維修它是官方維修還是這個民間維修"},{"start":186.892,"end":203.015,"text":"報告委員所有的海嵐維修都是由民間在維修的那目前所以這一條他是民間所有是沒錯那目前的狀況是維修的情形海嵐現在海嵐業者還在評估當中因為海嵐還在釣海嵐船是好來部長"},{"start":204.69,"end":229.682,"text":"部長本席之前在外交國防委員會也有這個相關議題的時候本席就非常的重視國安局報告說每年至少有七到八條的台灣海欄對外海欄是斷裂或是說破損的狀況近幾年近三年有25次那本席也問了就是說如果在國安局的這個報告裡面或者是說我們今天所謂的海欄七法其實講白了啦是"},{"start":230.362,"end":240.981,"text":"只指一個源頭如果說撇除意外的狀況只指一個源頭就是我們認為是中共中國大陸刻意的破壞台灣對外的一個聯繫有沒有這樣的狀況"},{"start":243.468,"end":267.449,"text":"是關於這個海嵐這個破壞剛剛委員提到其實就是事情的重點因為現在台灣面對的是敵對就是中國大陸那邊的一些灰色地帶襲擾他這些灰色地帶襲擾就是讓我們很難去判斷說他到底是故意的還是是無意的他就算是故意的他又裝作是那個無意的不小心就是過失那過失我們又很難"},{"start":268.109,"end":291.407,"text":"判斷我們現在要討論這些相關的修法那你們其實源頭都指的是說就是刻意要破壞嘛是那但是我也問啦25次的近三年25次的一個破壞那到底我們有求償幾次你知道答案嗎是我們國安局這邊給我們的回覆說25次裡面只求償了兩次啊"},{"start":293.408,"end":320.156,"text":"那我們也在問是說那如果說你今天我們不管我們的法令要定的多嚴格我們希望是說能夠保護但是兩個部分嘛一個是如果說破壞的時候而且我還問球場是誰來球場也是民間嘛跟我們官方沒有辦法有任何我是甚至講是說如果我們真的講要抗中保台啦民進黨政府要做真的那你陸委會代位球場啊你法務部代位球場啊"},{"start":321.581,"end":331.839,"text":"海委會代位求償啊印起來嘛打國際官司嘛也沒有也是要推給民間那中華電信有沒有去處理25次 2次"},{"start":334.404,"end":354.278,"text":"所以我們現在講的是說現在我們要加強不管是海蘭七法我們這相關的法例能夠加強台灣的通訊安全保障資安我都支持但是我們有沒有做實事有沒有面對到問題去處理問題還是說只要是傳之過來我甚至查到最新一個新聞是"},{"start":355.686,"end":367.017,"text":"8月底是他是說一個陸級的船長他破壞了中華電信的1700萬的海纜要維修就到最後侵犯三年是那有沒有球場"},{"start":368.004,"end":389.554,"text":"是 跟委員報告因為這些海嵐都是民間機構所擁有的所以當然要訴訟要求償當然是必須由民間的這些海嵐公司來要求那我們真正是不行的時候我們才需要做像是代位求償這種事情所以什麼時候有可能啟動代位求償你這樣講是說有可能喔"},{"start":390.981,"end":409.481,"text":"如果民間需求 民間處理不了的話我們當然過去幾年 過去三年25次的斷線民間有沒有提過說要代位球場那今天速發部願意跳出來我覺得很好啊是能不能代位球場我覺得如果這樣的話我們支持有意義喔是這個事情我們會不會去研究"},{"start":411.94,"end":441.036,"text":"部長是立法院法治局指出法規沒有規定領海外我國海欄被破壞的處罰事項建議修正經濟部速發部都回應如果新增意外的效力條款容易引發管轄權的爭議是建議不建議修正法治局又提說過失損毀應該要負民事責任速發部或經濟部又認為現行民法已經有相關規範不建議修正那不就是玩假的嗎"},{"start":443.035,"end":465.509,"text":"你剛又在講是說我講中華電信因為最大的這個業主是中華電信嘛那中華電信的海嵐破壞了過去這三年中華電信還算是我們官方機關辦官方機關結果他也沒有我不知道是說是過去沒有這樣的管道讓中華電信能夠來拜託請求代位求償還是明明有管道他們不願意申請"},{"start":467.025,"end":492.597,"text":"那另外第二個部分是說我們現在臨海以外的被破壞的一個行為我們也沒有任何的辦法是這個關於這臨海以外我們是不是有管轄權我們在法律上是不是可以去去處罰他這個是涉及那個法律的專業那我們請那個我們法治處處長我們因為這個是國際的狀況我相信不會是只有台灣的台南會被破壞沒錯沒錯國外怎麼做"},{"start":495.771,"end":511.314,"text":"是我們至少沒有辦法跟美國學習我們跟韓國學習 跟日本學習總可以吧那日本怎麼做 韓國怎麼做 我們去研究如果說他們公海上面 領海以外日本的海欄被破壞 他們怎麼做"},{"start":512.065,"end":536.387,"text":"是 包括委員依照聯合國的海洋法公約113條的規定也不是這個113條而是除了有沒有普遍的管轄權應該是除了海盜罪以外其他的罪行大致上都沒有普遍的管轄權也就是不適合在意外行使對於傳奇國的一個管轄那所以 那他們怎麼做如果說日本政府他們面臨到海瀾被破壞"},{"start":537.335,"end":560.768,"text":"所以他們也是回歸到海洋法113條的規定來處理也就是只有領海內來做一個執法的一個範圍好啦 來 部長要扯到後面又講說我們不是聯合國的會員等等的你又又繞回來了老問題我覺得要面對問題我們也希望是說能夠支持但是如果說海外電纜被破壞都無法可管那修法不是等於修半套嗎"},{"start":561.894,"end":590.615,"text":"是但是這個是很殘酷的國際現實我們並不是美國像美國最近那個川普總統常常利用一些海盜就是覺得是海盜的原因去做一些那個境外公海上的那個執法但是台灣並沒有辦法這樣做所以我們還是必須遵守這個國際的法律的這些規定那這個是我們很不幸我們台灣並不是像沒有如果說你要這樣講的話那我就很期待民進黨政府硬起來我支持"},{"start":591.96,"end":606.21,"text":"如果說誰破壞我們台灣的海欄真的有罪證確鑿的話硬起來啊美國政府可以做到台灣政府做不到不是說台美關係史上最佳嗎學一學嘛來最後一分鐘啦不好意思稍微站起來等一下我九分鐘啦"},{"start":607.071,"end":625.6,"text":"我看到昨天速發部為了防堵跨境的購物造成非洲豬瘟的一個破口所以說馬上找了Google Meta Line跟TikTok四大網路平台來延商那重點其實主要就是要提供關鍵字就不讓豬肉製品能夠進口我想先請教這個其實這是源頭管理我認同"},{"start":626.42,"end":647.046,"text":"就是說你連購物平台上面不管是接下來要進來的雙11你連買或是看都不能看到肉乾肉鬆等等肉製品那你連下單都沒有辦法下單你當然就不會透過平台進來嘛所以現在有可以把握我們台灣所有的購物平台上面都不會再出現"},{"start":648.286,"end":675.018,"text":"外境外的豬肉製品這是我們努力的目標那我們這個盡量用關鍵字去搜尋難免有時候會有些人疏漏的地方疏漏的時候我們發現就會馬上再通知這些平台馬上要求他們更新他們的所以不會讓民眾在購物網站上面可以找到這些豬肉製品我會從資訊流 金流以及物流三方來處理可以做得到嘛是好 那本席講另外一個我長期關注的議題是"},{"start":676.702,"end":705.501,"text":"電子菸現在在台灣合法嗎這個要問衛福部什麼還要問衛福部你有沒有一點common sense電子菸在台灣合不合法還要問衛福部喔是有沒有common sensecommon sense吧這算是電子菸在台灣合不合法委員好我知道今天的問題點了原來到目前為止速發部都不知道電子菸在台灣合不合法槍枝在台灣合不合法這common sense吧"},{"start":706.54,"end":722.008,"text":"槍枝當然要看是使用的人一般民眾是違法的但是軍人還有警察當然是合法能不能在網路上可以買得到槍 不行嘛能不能在網路上買得到毒品 不行嘛那電子菸合不合法"},{"start":723.568,"end":743.118,"text":"來來來剛剛你沒有來回答一下一分鐘剛才我的一分鐘很寶貴因為我的了解當然電子菸依照衛福部的規定現在是不合法非常好來那從本席過去也一直從上一任部長位置講就是說如果不合法的話怎麼可以那麼輕易的我們Google不用打任何的隱蔽的"},{"start":744.638,"end":760.889,"text":"隱晦的字眼我打電子菸三個字就可以出現官方網站購買電子菸還可以直接下單然後三天之內他寄到7-11還不用查身份證件我就可以直接來買這行之有年欸那我一直提說你應該是"},{"start":763.21,"end":784.201,"text":"不管境內境外 重點來來來 重點在於是重點在於是跟我剛剛討論非洲豬瘟是一樣的道理重點在於是台灣2300萬人能不能用我們的Google我在台灣上Google能不能查到這些資訊嘛如果說你剛剛講說非洲豬瘟我都可以一天時間把四大平台業者找來並且要求他們就是屏蔽"},{"start":785.262,"end":811.757,"text":"我不能出現豬肉製品我連讓你下單都沒有辦法下單所以你根本不會買也不會進來嘛我肯定我肯定但一樣的道理那電子煙呢到目前為止你你等一下可以請同仁隨便一個幕僚查電子煙三字你都不用打任何的那種隱晦的字眼就電子煙你就可以出現在首頁Google的第一個搜尋就可以出現電子煙官方網站琳瑯滿目"},{"start":813.348,"end":842.457,"text":"三天下訂 三天到貨千元有找 滿千送百還有會員所以本席要講的就是說這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的那但是到目前為止提了那麼久了結果如果有法源的依據只要衛福部那邊一定有法源依據衛福部從以前到現在陰害防治法就有法源依據"},{"start":843.437,"end":861.209,"text":"所以現在又推給衛福部處理不是因為這個是政府的分工的問題我們速發部我們第一次做言論管制我想部長這絕對不是言論管制你怎麼會提到言論管制呢違法違禁品毒品販賣在網路上結果你跟我講言論管制我的意思是說這個事情不是由我們判斷就是說這個"},{"start":862.209,"end":882.937,"text":"就是電子菸哪些網站是合法哪些電子菸是合法所以本席現在確認兩件事情第一是可以做到的現在技術本來就可以技術上可以做到有法律上創意私房的時候一天內那個論壇就可以下架對那個是衛福部發新聞給我們那我們現在我也已經不只一次要求前任部長現任部長我也會講"},{"start":883.837,"end":898.611,"text":"但是我要求的是不要互推皮球這一點真的是所有國小國中高中的家長都很擔心就像棒球隊一樣有那個內野有投手各自有各自的分工但是我們要合作"},{"start":899.011,"end":914.638,"text":"那這個自求對決就是要各自分工本席這個議題會持續追我也看什麼時候衛福部跟觸發部要硬起來可以共同的讓國人不要受到這個危害本席會再追這個事情謝謝 非常謝謝謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":373,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時45分）感謝主席，大聯盟裁判都是一樣，我們也期待部會直球對決，請數發部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長宜敬：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，今天審查海纜七法，我想不管國安、資安、治安都是全臺2,350萬人共同要求，也共同期待，也共同要注意的，所以我們不分黨派共同努力。但是我想先了解一下，你們有沒有針對最需要面對的問題對症下藥，請教現在的海底電纜裡面有幾條是目前還在進行中，或是斷裂的狀況？"],["林部長宜敬：這件事情是不是可以請我們的韌性司司長來簡單說明？"],["洪委員孟楷：簡單說明一下，好不好？"],["牛司長信仁：謝謝委員的垂詢，事實上，目前我國海纜的狀況，我們在數發部官網都有即時更新，像昨天又更新一筆，目前有三個海纜是有故障的情形。"],["洪委員孟楷：三個海纜有故障？"],["牛司長信仁：是，另外三個是計畫性維修，以上報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席有看到社群媒體平臺在昨天晚上有一個貼文寫：出大事了，臺灣海底電纜又斷了，其中一條指的是海峽光纜1號（TSE-1），是不是？有沒有掌握？這個狀況是不是說明一下？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，海峽光纜1號到目前為止只有部分芯纜中斷，但是那個中斷不是在使用的光纜上，它只是一條光纜中斷，一條海纜裡面有非常多光纖，只是斷了一條，這一條並沒有影響通訊，我們前面已經公告，跟委員報告，10月27日已經有把這個訊息公告出來，但是事實上完全不影響通訊，以上報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：完全不影響通訊？"],["牛司長信仁：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：不過在網站上面，它看起來是呈現中斷的狀況，並且變成是紅線，所以我想也利用這個機會給你闢謠一下，或讓所有國人使用網路可以安心，畢竟我們看到社群媒體平臺是有這樣的討論，而且討論滿熱烈的。"],["牛司長信仁：是，謝謝委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：你說不影響通訊，另外一個部分，造成的原因是什麼，有沒有掌握？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，目前為止，因為上次有一個新聞事件是臺灣海纜斷9條，所以自此以後，數發部會即時更新在我們網站上的網頁。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在先講海峽光纜1號，有沒有掌握它斷裂或受損的原因是什麼？"],["牛司長信仁：在海纜維修的時候，目前為止看到是沒有人為的情形，至於詳細的斷裂原因，比如自然原因或是什麼原因，還要等海纜真正維修撈起來以後才會更清楚，以上報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以什麼時候可以確認？"],["牛司長信仁：目前為止，它現在……"],["洪委員孟楷：這個維修是官方維修，還是民間維修？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，所有的海纜維修都是由民間在維修的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以這一條是民間所有？"],["牛司長信仁：是，沒錯。目前的狀況是維修情形海纜業者還在評估當中，因為海纜還要調海纜船。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，之前在外交及國防委員會也有相關議題的時候，本席就非常重視，國安局報告指出每年至少有7到8條臺灣海纜、對外海纜斷裂或破損的狀況，近三年有25次，本席也問過，在國安局的報告裡面，或者是今天所謂的海纜七法，其實講白了，直指一個源頭，如果撇除意外狀況直指一個源頭，就是我們認為是中共、中國大陸刻意地破壞臺灣對外的聯繫，有沒有這樣的狀況？"],["林部長宜敬：關於海纜的破壞，剛才委員提到其實就是事情的重點，因為現在臺灣面對的是敵對，就是中國大陸那邊的一些灰色地帶襲擾，這些灰色地帶襲擾讓我們很難去判斷他到底是故意的，還是無意的，就算是故意的，他也裝作是無意的、不小心的，也就是過失，我們又很難判斷。但是不管怎麼樣，我們一定要……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席想講的是我們現在要討論這些相關的修法，其實源頭都指的是刻意要破壞，但是我也問過針對近三年25次的破壞，我們到底有求償幾次，你知道答案嗎？國安局這邊給我們的回復是25次裡面只求償2次。我們也在問，不管我們的法令要訂定得多嚴格，我們都希望是能夠保護，但是兩個部分，一個是如果被破壞的時候，而且我還問求償是誰來求償？"],["牛司長信仁：民間。"],["洪委員孟楷：也是民間嘛！我們官方沒辦法有任何作為，甚至，如果我們真的要抗中保臺，民進黨政府要做真的，陸委會代位求償啊！法務部代位求償啊！海委會代位求償啊！硬起來嘛！打國際官司，也沒有，也是要推給民間，中華電信有沒有去處理？25次只求償2次。所以我現在要講的是，不管是要加強海纜七法或相關法令，能夠加強臺灣的通訊安全、保障資安，我都支持。"],["林部長宜敬：是，非常謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是你們有沒有做實事，有沒有面對問題、去處理問題，還是只要是船隻過來，我甚至查到最近一個新聞是8月底有一位陸籍船長破壞了中華電信的海纜，維修達1,700萬，結果到最後輕判三年，我們有沒有求償？"],["林部長宜敬：跟委員報告，因為這些海纜都是民間機構所擁有的，所以要訴訟求償當然是必須由民間這些海纜公司來要求，真正是不行的時候，我們才需要做代位求償這種事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候有可能啟動代位求償？你這樣講是有可能喔！"],["林部長宜敬：如果民間有需求或是民間處理不了的話，我們當然會處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：過去三年發生25次斷線，民間有沒有提過要代位求償？"],["林部長宜敬：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：今天數發部願意跳出來，我覺得很好，你們能不能代位求償？如果是這樣的話，我們支持有意義喔？"],["林部長宜敬：這個事情我們會回去研究。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，立法院法制局指出法規沒有規定領海外我國海纜被破壞的處罰事項，建議修正，經濟部、數發部則回應，如果新增域外效力條款，容易引發管轄權爭議，不建議修正；法制局又提到過失損毀應該要負民事責任，數發部或經濟部認為現行民法已經有相關規範，不建議修正，那不就是玩假的嗎？最大的業主是中華電信，過去這三年中華電信的海纜被破壞，中華電信還算是我們的半官方機關，結果它也沒有……我不知道是過去沒有這樣的管道，讓中華電信能夠拜託、請求代位求償，還是明明有管道他們不願意申請？第二個部分，現在領海以外被破壞的行為，我們也沒有任何的辦法。"],["林部長宜敬：關於領海以外，我們是不是有管轄權，我們在法律上是不是可以去處罰他，這個是涉及法律專業，我們請法制處處長來……"],["洪委員孟楷：這是國際的狀況，我相信不會只有臺灣的海纜會被破壞。"],["林部長宜敬：沒錯、沒錯，委員講的一點都沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：國外怎麼做？我們沒有辦法跟美國學習，至少跟韓國學習、跟日本學習，總可以吧？日本怎麼做，韓國怎麼做，你們有沒有去研究？如果在公海上面、領海以外，日本的海纜被破壞，他們怎麼做？"],["張處長學文：報告委員，依照聯合國海洋法公約第一百十三條規定，也不是第一百十三條的規定，而是有沒有普遍的管轄權，應該是除了海盜罪以外，其他的罪刑大致上都沒有普遍的管轄權，也就是不適合在域外行使對於船籍國的管轄。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果日本政府面臨海纜被破壞，他們怎麼做？"],["張處長學文：他們也是回歸到海洋法第一百十三條規定來處理，也就是只有領海內是執法的範圍。"],["洪委員孟楷：來，部長，扯到後面又要講我們不是聯合國的會員等等，你又繞回來了，這是老問題，我覺得要面對問題，我們也希望能夠支持，但是如果海外電纜被破壞都無法可管，那修法不是等於修半套嗎？"],["林部長宜敬：但是這個是很殘酷的國際現實，我們並不是美國，像最近美國總統川普常常利用一些覺得是海盜的原因，去做境外、公海上的執法，但是臺灣並沒有辦法這樣做，所以我們還是必須遵守國際法律的規定，很不幸，我們臺灣並不是像美國那樣的大國。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有，如果你要這樣講的話，我就很期待民進黨政府硬起來，我支持啊！如果誰破壞臺灣的海纜，真的罪證確鑿的話，硬起來！美國政府可以做得到，臺灣政府做不到？不是說臺美關係史上最佳嗎？學一學嘛！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：最後1分鐘，不好意思！召委站起來了，但再給我1分鐘。我看到昨天數發部為了防堵跨境購物，造成非洲豬瘟的破口，所以馬上找了Google、Meta、LINE跟TikTok四大網路平臺來研商，重點主要就是提供關鍵字，不讓豬肉製品能夠進口。"],["林部長宜敬：沒錯、沒錯，是。"],["洪委員孟楷：我想先請教，其實這是源頭管理，我認同。在購物平臺上面，不管是接下來的雙11，你連買或是看都不能看到肉乾、肉鬆等等肉製品，你連下單都沒有辦法下單，當然就不會透過平臺進來嘛！所以現在有把握臺灣所有的購物平臺上都不會再出現境外的豬肉製品？"],["林部長宜敬：是，這是我們努力的目標，我們儘量用關鍵字去搜尋，難免有時候會有些疏漏的地方，在有疏漏的時候，我們發現會馬上再通知這些平臺、馬上要求他們更新關鍵字……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以不會讓民眾在購物網站上面可以找到這些豬肉製品？"],["林部長宜敬：是、是。我會從資訊流、金流以及物流上面來處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：非常好，可以做得到嘛？"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席講另外一個長期關注的議題，現在電子煙在臺灣合法嗎？"],["林部長宜敬：這個要問衛福部。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼？還要問衛福部？你有沒有一點common sense？電子煙在臺灣合不合法，還要問衛福部喔？"],["林部長宜敬：是！"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有common sense？這算是common sense吧，電子煙在臺灣合不合法？"],["陳副署長慧敏：委員好。那個電子煙……"],["洪委員孟楷：我知道今天的問題點了，原來到目前為止，數發部都不知道電子煙在臺灣合不合法；槍枝在臺灣合不合法？這是common sense吧！"],["林部長宜敬：槍枝當然要看使用的人，一般民眾是違法的，但是軍人還有警察，當然是合法。委員，因為這個問題由我來講……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，能不能在網路上可以買得到槍？不行嘛！能不能在網路上買得到毒品？不行嘛！"],["林部長宜敬：當然不行啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：那電子煙合不合法？來、來、來，剛剛你沒有說，請回答一下，1分鐘。我的1分鐘很寶貴，召委已經站……"],["林部長宜敬：以我的了解，當然電子煙依照衛福部的規定現在是不合法。"],["洪委員孟楷：不合法，非常好。過去從上一任部長，本席也一直講，如果不合法的話，怎麼可以那麼輕易在Google不用打任何隱蔽、隱晦的字眼，我打電子煙三個字就可以出現官方網站，購買電子煙，還可以直接下單，然後三天之內寄到7-11，還不用查身分證件，就可以直接來買，這行之有年欸！我一直提說，你應該是……"],["林部長宜敬：委員查到的是境內，還是境外的？"],["洪委員孟楷：不管境內、境外，重點……"],["林部長宜敬：境外的我們臺灣就沒辦法管制，這是管轄權的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：不、不！來、來、來，重點在於跟我剛剛討論非洲豬瘟是一樣的道理，重點是臺灣兩千三百多萬人在臺灣用Google能不能查到這些資訊，你剛剛講的非洲豬瘟都可以用一天時間把四大平臺業者找來，並且要求他們屏蔽不能出現豬肉製品，我讓你下單都沒有辦法下單，所以你根本不會買，也不會進來嘛！我肯定、我肯定。但是一樣的道理，電子煙呢？到目前為止，等一下你可以請同仁、隨便一個幕僚查「電子煙」三個字，你都不用打任何隱晦的字眼，就打「電子煙」，在首頁、Google的第一個搜尋就可以出現電子煙官方網站，琳瑯滿目，三天下訂，三天到貨，千元有找，滿千送百，還有會員……"],["林部長宜敬：是，我們跟衛福部有合作，只要他們行文過來要求我們把哪一個網站屏蔽，我們就會要求Google，或者是透過我們的DNS RPZ機制……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席要講的就是這個東西是一個不應該被任何人輕易搜尋到的。"],["林部長宜敬：對！但是我們數發部並不是在做言論管制……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是到目前為止，提了那麼久了，結果……"],["林部長宜敬：我們並不是在做言論管制，如果有法源依據，只要衛福部行文過來……"],["洪委員孟楷：一定有法源依據，衛福部從以前到現在，像菸害防制法就有法源依據。"],["林部長宜敬：對，他們行文過來，我們一定會處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在又推給衛福部不處理？"],["林部長宜敬：不是，因為這是政府分工的問題，數發部並不是在做言論管制，我想所有的委員都……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，部長，這絕對不是言論管制，你怎麼會提到言論管制呢？違法、違禁品、毒品販賣在網路上，結果你跟我扯言論管制？"],["林部長宜敬：我的意思是這個事情不是由我們判斷，即電子煙哪些網站是合法、哪些電子煙是不合法，這件事情是……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席現在確認兩件事情，第一是可以做到的，現在的技術本來就可以……"],["林部長宜敬：技術上可以做到，有法律上……"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼？在創意私房的時候，一天內那個論壇就可以下架。"],["林部長宜敬：對！那也是衛福部行文給我們。"],["洪委員孟楷：我已經不只一次要求前任部長，現任部長我也會講，但我要求的是不要互推皮球。"],["林部長宜敬：沒有，我們絕對不會互推皮球，我們也講得很清楚……"],["洪委員孟楷：這點真的是所有國小、國中、高中的家長都很擔心。"],["林部長宜敬：就像棒球隊一樣，有內野、有投手，各自有各自的分工，但是我們要合作。電子煙的管制由衛福部主管，法律上是由他們來決定，執行是由數發部處理，我們絕對不會推事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，直球對決，就是要各自分工，這一個議題本席會持續追，我也看什麼時候衛福部跟數發部要硬起來，可以共同讓國人不要受到危害，本席會再追這個事情，好不好？"],["林部長宜敬：非常謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷召委。再做個補充說明，各個委員的發言時間完畢之後，我是經過一分半鐘才會站起來，因為我年紀也大了，請不要讓我站太久。第二個，大聯盟的裁判只是負責好球帶，你要投直球、曲球、滑球、四縫線、二縫線、伸卡、卡特、近身球，我都沒有意見，謝謝。","現在請魯明哲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":524,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-5","speakers":["李昆澤","沈伯洋","蘇巧慧","林楚茵","黃國昌","洪孟楷","魯明哲","蔡其昌","陳素月","徐富癸","林俊憲","許智傑","陳雪生","廖先翔","邱若華","何欣純","王鴻薇","黃健豪","游顥","林國成"],"page_start":461,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員王美惠等20人、(三)委員李坤城等18人、(四)委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等16人、(五)委員羅美玲等19人、(六)委員黃捷等21人、(七)委員邱鎮軍\n等21人、(八)委員吳沛憶等16人、(九)委員林楚茵等17人、(十)委員沈伯洋等18人、(十一)委員\n蔡易餘等17人、(十二)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「電信管理法第七十二條條文修正草案」案及\n(十三)委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「電信管理法增訂第七十二條之二條文草案」案；二、審查(一)行\n政院函請審議、 ( 二 ) 委員王美惠等 19 人、 ( 三 ) 委員李坤城等 17 人、 ( 四 ) 委員伍麗華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人、(五)委員黃捷等22人、(六)委員吳沛憶等16人、(七)委員林楚茵等17人、\n(八)委員沈伯洋等18人、(九)委員蔡易餘等16人及(十)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「氣象法第二\n十一條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員王美惠等20人、(三)委\n員李坤城等18人、(四)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人、(五)委員羅美玲等19人、(六)\n委員黃捷等22 人、( 七) 委員邱鎮軍等23 人、( 八) 委員吳沛憶等16 人、( 九) 委員林楚茵等17 人、\n(十)委員沈伯洋等19人、(十一)委員蔡易餘等16人及(十二)委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「商港法\n第十五條及第六十五條之四條文修正草案」案；四、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌\n等 22 人 、 ( 三 ) 委 員 王 美 惠 等 21 人 、 ( 四 ) 委 員 李 坤 城 等 18 人 、 ( 五 ) 委 員 伍 麗 華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人、(六)委員黃捷等16人、(七)委員徐富癸等16人、(八)委員吳沛憶等16人、\n(九)委員林楚茵等17人、(十)委員沈伯洋等19人、(十一)委員蔡易餘等17人、(十二)委員郭昱晴\n等16人分別擬具「船舶法部分條文修正草案」案及(十三)委員蘇巧慧等18人擬具「船舶法第八條\n及第八十九條條文修正草案」案【本日會議僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1149201_00006"}}}