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大家很愛拿日本當例子但事實上日本的這些星級飯店或者是一般的飯店就是有提供有提供的時候他們提出來的這樣的一次性備品會付諸說他們減少了百分之比方說他們減少了百分之三十的排放量或者是說他們會說他們使用什麼樣的替代性的可持續性的這些原料來去做這些備品這些東西就是可以找出我們可以共生的這種方式\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 224.238, \"end\": 224.478, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 224.478, \"end\": 224.618, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 224.618, \"end\": 225.199, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 225.199, \"end\": 225.319, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 225.319, \"end\": 225.419, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 225.419, \"end\": 225.659, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"愛\"}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 225.659, \"end\": 225.899, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 225.899, \"end\": 226.019, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 226.019, \"end\": 226.379, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 226.379, \"end\": 226.559, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 226.559, \"end\": 226.78, 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\"我一直都認為環境的政策是一步一步來的我們不必要一次性的來用這樣子環保至上之後然後來去把其他的可以發展的空間就把它限縮掉了部長可不可以簡單回應我們一下好 謝謝委員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 253.246, \"end\": 253.427, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 253.427, \"end\": 253.527, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 253.527, \"end\": 253.627, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 253.627, \"end\": 254.508, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 254.508, \"end\": 254.648, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 254.648, \"end\": 254.788, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 254.788, \"end\": 254.989, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 254.989, \"end\": 255.209, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 255.209, \"end\": 255.369, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 255.369, \"end\": 255.51, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 255.51, \"end\": 255.65, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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259.695, \"end\": 260.156, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 260.156, \"end\": 260.336, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 260.336, \"end\": 260.477, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 260.477, \"end\": 260.777, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 260.777, \"end\": 260.957, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 260.957, \"end\": 261.198, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 261.198, \"end\": 261.358, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 261.358, \"end\": 261.638, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 261.638, \"end\": 261.738, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 261.738, \"end\": 261.959, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 261.959, \"end\": 262.139, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 262.139, \"end\": 262.339, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 262.339, \"end\": 262.82, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 262.82, \"end\": 263.16, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 263.16, \"end\": 263.621, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 263.621, \"end\": 263.801, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 263.801, \"end\": 263.942, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 263.942, \"end\": 264.302, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 264.302, \"end\": 264.422, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 264.422, \"end\": 264.542, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 264.542, \"end\": 264.643, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 264.643, \"end\": 265.083, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 265.083, \"end\": 265.303, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 265.303, \"end\": 265.744, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 265.744, \"end\": 265.824, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 265.824, \"end\": 265.964, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 265.964, \"end\": 266.185, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 266.185, \"end\": 266.325, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 266.325, \"end\": 266.505, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 266.505, \"end\": 266.705, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 266.705, \"end\": 266.826, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 266.826, \"end\": 267.006, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 267.006, \"end\": 267.326, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 267.326, \"end\": 267.447, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 267.447, \"end\": 267.467, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 269.529, \"end\": 298.137, \"text\": \"環保這是我們的一個目標啦當然我同意委員的看法就是說大家改變的時候可能沒有那麼的習慣那這個部分我們會來檢討例如說在今年未來明年的話可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵來輔助這樣的一個措施不過因為整個像歐洲很多的國家或是其實我們有統計有數據很多的國家都已經這樣做了所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估是不是可以在在這種獎勵上面能夠做一些鼓勵可不可以用獎勵來代替這種懲罰因為我看你們用這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 269.529, \"end\": 269.829, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 269.829, \"end\": 269.929, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 269.929, \"end\": 270.089, \"score\": 0.53}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 270.089, \"end\": 270.209, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 270.209, \"end\": 270.429, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 270.429, \"end\": 270.909, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 270.909, \"end\": 271.19, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 271.19, \"end\": 271.27, \"score\": 0.484}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 271.27, \"end\": 271.45, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 271.45, \"end\": 271.61, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 271.61, \"end\": 271.73, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 271.73, \"end\": 272.05, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.05, \"end\": 272.21, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 272.21, \"end\": 272.37, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 272.37, \"end\": 272.49, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 272.49, \"end\": 272.61, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 272.61, \"end\": 272.75, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 272.75, \"end\": 272.85, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 272.85, \"end\": 273.57, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 273.57, \"end\": 273.85, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 273.85, \"end\": 274.09, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 274.09, \"end\": 274.71, 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{\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 416.135, \"end\": 416.276, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 416.276, \"end\": 416.296, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:11,196\n那我們請環境部部長好請環境部彭部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:37,205\n车委好部长今年环境部他针对旅宿用品公告一次性的用品限制那我也请教了我们这个观光署的署长那他们认为说这也是有必要要去调整去改进的因为他对观光业的影响是非常大的那有很多民怨所以我要直接在这边\n\n3\n00:00:38,186 --> 00:00:45,447\n來替我們所有的民眾跟這些旅宿業者來請命希望說一次性備品的機率必須要有調整部長你怎麼看\n\n4\n00:00:46,711 --> 00:01:10,968\n包委員這個其實是一開始不習慣啦不習慣但是我們自己統計過我們也做過一個民調大概有將近七成多的民眾是支持的天啊你這個民調是怎麼做的我們有問問誰哪一個公司樣本多少你們做兩次民調然後超過七成的人都同意這樣的做法但是我必須說你們的問題問卷我都很懷疑喔\n\n5\n00:01:11,728 --> 00:01:37,383\n這跟我們得到的所有的旅宿業者跟一般民眾的看法是完全天翻地覆的完全不一致的嘛我不知道你們是怎麼樣做的民調這是真的委託專業人士去做的民調哪一間公司嗎你這樣民調就跟當初高鐵說這個高鐵公司也有做民調然後說80%以上的人都支持臨近車廂直到民眾反彈新聞反彈然後他們說他們也有民調\n\n6\n00:01:38,652 --> 00:01:59,753\n其實包委員任何的改變環保這個其實全世界在歐洲優先持續這個部長我們一開始也跟你討論過我們之前也是很重視我們這個環境的問題包含快食上我們都很重視但是我們不要把這種東西把它歸咎給消費者讓他們要去做額外的負擔那我們現在講的這些你現在講這個一次性備品\n\n7\n00:02:00,774 --> 00:02:25,493\n現在很多這個業者旅宿業者他們就不斷的在擴張這個一次性備品包含他們在販賣機就直接設在一樓最後你還是要去那邊一樓再買這一些不環保的東西嘛那有些國外的重要的貴賓來到台灣然後最後說因為他們住的這些飯店沒有這些一次性的備品所以他們走到樓下跑到便利商店買更昂貴的一次性備品\n\n8\n00:02:26,314 --> 00:02:50,302\n而且他們只用一次這些本來可以長期使用的這些牙刷牙膏所有的備品他們就把它拿去用一次然後一樣丟在飯店的垃圾桶裡面所以這個事情是明明就已經出現跟民意有很大差別的地方我還是強調說如果這樣搞的話未來是不是航空公司這個比較長時間的旅程的話叫他們也不可以來去提供一次性的備品\n\n9\n00:02:51,750 --> 00:03:06,225\n再繼續擴張我們這樣不斷的擴張的時候沒有任何一個部門它的意志是可以超越其他的部門的我們同時也要跟交通部要跟觀光署去協調旅宿業者也不是只有消費者感到難過\n\n10\n00:03:07,826 --> 00:03:23,911\n女書業者也覺得他們品牌壓力啊其他的國家同樣的品牌同樣的新等在台灣要付出的價格更多服務種類更少提供的備品也是更少的那你怎麼做他們的差異化怎麼樣做出他們服務差異化怎麼樣提高我們的國旅\n\n11\n00:03:24,831 --> 00:03:43,598\n我的意思是說我們當然支持這樣的環保政策但是部長可不可以來思考一下有沒有辦法來找到一個同時平衡我國的觀光旅遊的平衡點可不可以試著去思考一下比方說不要用懲罰的方式可不可以用獎勵的方式\n\n12\n00:03:44,238 --> 00:04:11,414\n在日本大家很愛拿日本當例子但事實上日本的這些星級飯店或者是一般的飯店就是有提供有提供的時候他們提出來的這樣的一次性備品會付諸說他們減少了百分之比方說他們減少了百分之三十的排放量或者是說他們會說他們使用什麼樣的替代性的可持續性的這些原料來去做這些備品這些東西就是可以找出我們可以共生的這種方式\n\n13\n00:04:13,246 --> 00:04:27,467\n我一直都認為環境的政策是一步一步來的我們不必要一次性的來用這樣子環保至上之後然後來去把其他的可以發展的空間就把它限縮掉了部長可不可以簡單回應我們一下好謝謝委員\n\n14\n00:04:29,529 --> 00:04:58,137\n環保這是我們的一個目標啦當然我同意委員的看法就是說大家改變的時候可能沒有那麼的習慣那這個部分我們會來檢討例如說在今年未來明年的話可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵來輔助這樣的一個措施不過因為整個像歐洲很多的國家或是其實我們有統計有數據很多的國家都已經這樣做了所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估是不是可以在在這種獎勵上面能夠做一些鼓勵可不可以用獎勵來代替這種懲罰因為我看你們用這個\n\n15\n00:04:59,237 --> 00:05:15,207\n其實懲罰現在的方式因為執行是在地方單位其實真的懲罰沒有那麼的多但是我們還是期待民眾可以自己帶這個要養成的確是要一兩年的時間我都是自己帶啦我先跟大家講說但我不會把我自己的價值觀強壓在其他的消費者身上\n\n16\n00:05:16,267 --> 00:05:31,560\n我不覺得說我們要把我們自己的價值觀強壓在我們其他消費者上的原因就是說你也可以選擇不使用嘛你的背景就是你也可以選擇不使用為什麼一定要把自己的價值觀然後全部再強壓在其他人身上包委員那個不使用對旅館而言它還是丟掉還是造成一些很大的浪費\n\n17\n00:05:32,501 --> 00:05:55,952\n所以基本上這個是多數國家它本來就有的作為但是委員你提的建議很好因為我們也看到有一些業者給我們一些不一樣的聲音我們也都聽到了我的建議還是一樣就不要一刀切嘛你這旅宿業者有各種各樣的旅宿業者嘛你喜歡說像日本他們有溫泉旅館他們有這種新級的酒店他們會有像這樣子的這種會議型的這種旅館\n\n18\n00:05:57,153 --> 00:06:23,564\n很多現在台灣的來台灣旅遊的國際旅客他不是只以純觀光旅遊為目的有些是因為參加會議啊你參加會議的時候將來把所有的備品都帶在身上那你要不要做一個區格化支持但是不可以這樣子一刀切全部全面都用同樣的方式來去對每一個旅宿業者你認為他們都只是都他們都serve同樣的目的沒有有些是為了會議的有些為了觀光的有些是家庭旅遊的那家庭旅遊\n\n19\n00:06:24,364 --> 00:06:41,881\n你沒有備品你要叫他們已經要帶很多東西然後又要再準備更多東西來參加會議的有些兩天一夜的你要叫他們再把東西全部帶過來我提到的原因就是因為就真的是很多人在跟我們反映從民宿業者從觀光業者到一般民眾到外國的政要都覺得說很\n\n20\n00:06:42,581 --> 00:06:56,296\n這是一件很奇妙的事情為什麼一定要這樣謝謝委員那個環保的確是有一點不麻煩跟以前習慣不一樣但是這是正確走的路但是委員提到的是說我們是不是有一點修正然後鼓勵的方法我們會來研議好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7679\t11196\t那我們請環境部部長好 請環境部彭部長\n13980\t37205\t车委好部长今年环境部他针对旅宿用品公告一次性的用品限制那我也请教了我们这个观光署的署长那他们认为说这也是有必要要去调整去改进的因为他对观光业的影响是非常大的那有很多民怨所以我要直接在这边\n38186\t45447\t來替我們所有的民眾跟這些旅宿業者來請命希望說一次性備品的機率必須要有調整部長你怎麼看\n46711\t70968\t包委員 這個其實是一開始不習慣啦 不習慣但是我們自己統計過 我們也做過一個民調大概有將近七成多的民眾是支持的天啊 你這個民調是怎麼做的我們有問問誰 哪一個公司樣本多少你們做兩次民調然後超過七成的人都同意這樣的做法但是我必須說你們的問題 問卷 我都很懷疑喔\n71728\t97383\t這跟我們得到的所有的旅宿業者跟一般民眾的看法是完全天翻地覆的完全不一致的嘛我不知道你們是怎麼樣做的民調這是真的委託專業人士去做的民調哪一間公司嗎你這樣民調就跟當初高鐵說這個高鐵公司也有做民調然後說80%以上的人都支持臨近車廂直到民眾反彈新聞反彈然後他們說他們也有民調\n98652\t119753\t其實包委員 任何的改變環保這個其實全世界在歐洲優先持續 這個部長我們一開始也跟你討論過我們之前也是很重視我們這個環境的問題包含快食上我們都很重視但是我們不要把這種東西把它歸咎給消費者讓他們要去做額外的負擔那我們現在講的這些你現在講這個一次性備品\n120774\t145493\t現在很多這個業者 旅宿業者他們就不斷的在擴張這個一次性備品包含他們在販賣機就直接設在一樓最後你還是要去那邊一樓再買這一些不環保的東西嘛那有些國外的重要的貴賓來到台灣然後最後說因為他們住的這些飯店沒有這些一次性的備品所以他們走到樓下跑到便利商店買更昂貴的一次性備品\n146314\t170302\t而且他們只用一次 這些本來可以長期使用的這些牙刷 牙膏所有的備品 他們就把它拿去用一次然後一樣丟在飯店的垃圾桶裡面所以這個事情是明明就已經出現 跟民意有很大差別的地方我還是強調說 如果這樣搞的話未來是不是航空公司 這個比較長時間的旅程的話叫他們也不可以來去提供一次性的備品\n171750\t186225\t再繼續擴張我們這樣不斷的擴張的時候沒有任何一個部門它的意志是可以超越其他的部門的我們同時也要跟交通部要跟觀光署去協調旅宿業者也不是只有消費者感到難過\n187826\t203911\t女書業者也覺得他們品牌壓力啊其他的國家同樣的品牌同樣的新等在台灣要付出的價格更多服務種類更少提供的備品也是更少的那你怎麼做他們的差異化怎麼樣做出他們服務差異化怎麼樣提高我們的國旅\n204831\t223598\t我的意思是說我們當然支持這樣的環保政策但是部長可不可以來思考一下有沒有辦法來找到一個同時平衡我國的觀光旅遊的平衡點可不可以試著去思考一下比方說不要用懲罰的方式可不可以用獎勵的方式\n224238\t251414\t在日本 大家很愛拿日本當例子但事實上日本的這些星級飯店或者是一般的飯店就是有提供有提供的時候他們提出來的這樣的一次性備品會付諸說他們減少了百分之比方說他們減少了百分之三十的排放量或者是說他們會說他們使用什麼樣的替代性的可持續性的這些原料來去做這些備品這些東西就是可以找出我們可以共生的這種方式\n253246\t267467\t我一直都認為環境的政策是一步一步來的我們不必要一次性的來用這樣子環保至上之後然後來去把其他的可以發展的空間就把它限縮掉了部長可不可以簡單回應我們一下好 謝謝委員\n269529\t298137\t環保這是我們的一個目標啦當然我同意委員的看法就是說大家改變的時候可能沒有那麼的習慣那這個部分我們會來檢討例如說在今年未來明年的話可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵來輔助這樣的一個措施不過因為整個像歐洲很多的國家或是其實我們有統計有數據很多的國家都已經這樣做了所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估是不是可以在在這種獎勵上面能夠做一些鼓勵可不可以用獎勵來代替這種懲罰因為我看你們用這個\n299237\t315207\t其實懲罰現在的方式因為執行是在地方單位其實真的懲罰沒有那麼的多但是我們還是期待民眾可以自己帶這個要養成的確是要一兩年的時間我都是自己帶啦我先跟大家講說但我不會把我自己的價值觀強壓在其他的消費者身上\n316267\t331560\t我不覺得說我們要把我們自己的價值觀強壓在我們其他消費者上的原因就是說你也可以選擇不使用嘛你的背景就是你也可以選擇不使用為什麼一定要把自己的價值觀然後全部再強壓在其他人身上包委員那個不使用對旅館而言它還是丟掉還是造成一些很大的浪費\n332501\t355952\t所以基本上這個是多數國家它本來就有的作為但是委員你提的建議很好因為我們也看到有一些業者給我們一些不一樣的聲音我們也都聽到了我的建議還是一樣就不要一刀切嘛你這旅宿業者有各種各樣的旅宿業者嘛你喜歡說像日本他們有溫泉旅館他們有這種新級的酒店他們會有像這樣子的這種會議型的這種旅館\n357153\t383564\t很多現在台灣的來台灣旅遊的國際旅客他不是只以純觀光旅遊為目的有些是因為參加會議啊你參加會議的時候將來把所有的備品都帶在身上那你要不要做一個區格化支持但是不可以這樣子一刀切全部全面都用同樣的方式來去對每一個旅宿業者你認為他們都只是都他們都serve同樣的目的沒有有些是為了會議的有些為了觀光的有些是家庭旅遊的那家庭旅遊\n384364\t401881\t你沒有備品你要叫他們已經要帶很多東西然後又要再準備更多東西來參加會議的有些兩天一夜的你要叫他們再把東西全部帶過來我提到的原因就是因為就真的是很多人在跟我們反映從民宿業者 從觀光業者到一般民眾到外國的政要都覺得說很\n402581\t416296\t這是一件很奇妙的事情為什麼一定要這樣謝謝委員那個環保的確是有一點不麻煩跟以前習慣不一樣但是這是正確走的路但是委員提到的是說我們是不是有一點修正然後鼓勵的方法我們會來研議好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員\n","txt":"那我們請環境部部長好 請環境部彭部長\n车委好部长今年环境部他针对旅宿用品公告一次性的用品限制那我也请教了我们这个观光署的署长那他们认为说这也是有必要要去调整去改进的因为他对观光业的影响是非常大的那有很多民怨所以我要直接在这边\n來替我們所有的民眾跟這些旅宿業者來請命希望說一次性備品的機率必須要有調整部長你怎麼看\n包委員 這個其實是一開始不習慣啦 不習慣但是我們自己統計過 我們也做過一個民調大概有將近七成多的民眾是支持的天啊 你這個民調是怎麼做的我們有問問誰 哪一個公司樣本多少你們做兩次民調然後超過七成的人都同意這樣的做法但是我必須說你們的問題 問卷 我都很懷疑喔\n這跟我們得到的所有的旅宿業者跟一般民眾的看法是完全天翻地覆的完全不一致的嘛我不知道你們是怎麼樣做的民調這是真的委託專業人士去做的民調哪一間公司嗎你這樣民調就跟當初高鐵說這個高鐵公司也有做民調然後說80%以上的人都支持臨近車廂直到民眾反彈新聞反彈然後他們說他們也有民調\n其實包委員 任何的改變環保這個其實全世界在歐洲優先持續 這個部長我們一開始也跟你討論過我們之前也是很重視我們這個環境的問題包含快食上我們都很重視但是我們不要把這種東西把它歸咎給消費者讓他們要去做額外的負擔那我們現在講的這些你現在講這個一次性備品\n現在很多這個業者 旅宿業者他們就不斷的在擴張這個一次性備品包含他們在販賣機就直接設在一樓最後你還是要去那邊一樓再買這一些不環保的東西嘛那有些國外的重要的貴賓來到台灣然後最後說因為他們住的這些飯店沒有這些一次性的備品所以他們走到樓下跑到便利商店買更昂貴的一次性備品\n而且他們只用一次 這些本來可以長期使用的這些牙刷 牙膏所有的備品 他們就把它拿去用一次然後一樣丟在飯店的垃圾桶裡面所以這個事情是明明就已經出現 跟民意有很大差別的地方我還是強調說 如果這樣搞的話未來是不是航空公司 這個比較長時間的旅程的話叫他們也不可以來去提供一次性的備品\n再繼續擴張我們這樣不斷的擴張的時候沒有任何一個部門它的意志是可以超越其他的部門的我們同時也要跟交通部要跟觀光署去協調旅宿業者也不是只有消費者感到難過\n女書業者也覺得他們品牌壓力啊其他的國家同樣的品牌同樣的新等在台灣要付出的價格更多服務種類更少提供的備品也是更少的那你怎麼做他們的差異化怎麼樣做出他們服務差異化怎麼樣提高我們的國旅\n我的意思是說我們當然支持這樣的環保政策但是部長可不可以來思考一下有沒有辦法來找到一個同時平衡我國的觀光旅遊的平衡點可不可以試著去思考一下比方說不要用懲罰的方式可不可以用獎勵的方式\n在日本 大家很愛拿日本當例子但事實上日本的這些星級飯店或者是一般的飯店就是有提供有提供的時候他們提出來的這樣的一次性備品會付諸說他們減少了百分之比方說他們減少了百分之三十的排放量或者是說他們會說他們使用什麼樣的替代性的可持續性的這些原料來去做這些備品這些東西就是可以找出我們可以共生的這種方式\n我一直都認為環境的政策是一步一步來的我們不必要一次性的來用這樣子環保至上之後然後來去把其他的可以發展的空間就把它限縮掉了部長可不可以簡單回應我們一下好 謝謝委員\n環保這是我們的一個目標啦當然我同意委員的看法就是說大家改變的時候可能沒有那麼的習慣那這個部分我們會來檢討例如說在今年未來明年的話可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵來輔助這樣的一個措施不過因為整個像歐洲很多的國家或是其實我們有統計有數據很多的國家都已經這樣做了所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估是不是可以在在這種獎勵上面能夠做一些鼓勵可不可以用獎勵來代替這種懲罰因為我看你們用這個\n其實懲罰現在的方式因為執行是在地方單位其實真的懲罰沒有那麼的多但是我們還是期待民眾可以自己帶這個要養成的確是要一兩年的時間我都是自己帶啦我先跟大家講說但我不會把我自己的價值觀強壓在其他的消費者身上\n我不覺得說我們要把我們自己的價值觀強壓在我們其他消費者上的原因就是說你也可以選擇不使用嘛你的背景就是你也可以選擇不使用為什麼一定要把自己的價值觀然後全部再強壓在其他人身上包委員那個不使用對旅館而言它還是丟掉還是造成一些很大的浪費\n所以基本上這個是多數國家它本來就有的作為但是委員你提的建議很好因為我們也看到有一些業者給我們一些不一樣的聲音我們也都聽到了我的建議還是一樣就不要一刀切嘛你這旅宿業者有各種各樣的旅宿業者嘛你喜歡說像日本他們有溫泉旅館他們有這種新級的酒店他們會有像這樣子的這種會議型的這種旅館\n很多現在台灣的來台灣旅遊的國際旅客他不是只以純觀光旅遊為目的有些是因為參加會議啊你參加會議的時候將來把所有的備品都帶在身上那你要不要做一個區格化支持但是不可以這樣子一刀切全部全面都用同樣的方式來去對每一個旅宿業者你認為他們都只是都他們都serve同樣的目的沒有有些是為了會議的有些為了觀光的有些是家庭旅遊的那家庭旅遊\n你沒有備品你要叫他們已經要帶很多東西然後又要再準備更多東西來參加會議的有些兩天一夜的你要叫他們再把東西全部帶過來我提到的原因就是因為就真的是很多人在跟我們反映從民宿業者 從觀光業者到一般民眾到外國的政要都覺得說很\n這是一件很奇妙的事情為什麼一定要這樣謝謝委員那個環保的確是有一點不麻煩跟以前習慣不一樣但是這是正確走的路但是委員提到的是說我們是不是有一點修正然後鼓勵的方法我們會來研議好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.679 --> 00:11.196\n那我們請環境部部長好請環境部彭部長\n\n00:13.980 --> 00:37.205\n车委好部长今年环境部他针对旅宿用品公告一次性的用品限制那我也请教了我们这个观光署的署长那他们认为说这也是有必要要去调整去改进的因为他对观光业的影响是非常大的那有很多民怨所以我要直接在这边\n\n00:38.186 --> 00:45.447\n來替我們所有的民眾跟這些旅宿業者來請命希望說一次性備品的機率必須要有調整部長你怎麼看\n\n00:46.711 --> 01:10.968\n包委員這個其實是一開始不習慣啦不習慣但是我們自己統計過我們也做過一個民調大概有將近七成多的民眾是支持的天啊你這個民調是怎麼做的我們有問問誰哪一個公司樣本多少你們做兩次民調然後超過七成的人都同意這樣的做法但是我必須說你們的問題問卷我都很懷疑喔\n\n01:11.728 --> 01:37.383\n這跟我們得到的所有的旅宿業者跟一般民眾的看法是完全天翻地覆的完全不一致的嘛我不知道你們是怎麼樣做的民調這是真的委託專業人士去做的民調哪一間公司嗎你這樣民調就跟當初高鐵說這個高鐵公司也有做民調然後說80%以上的人都支持臨近車廂直到民眾反彈新聞反彈然後他們說他們也有民調\n\n01:38.652 --> 01:59.753\n其實包委員任何的改變環保這個其實全世界在歐洲優先持續這個部長我們一開始也跟你討論過我們之前也是很重視我們這個環境的問題包含快食上我們都很重視但是我們不要把這種東西把它歸咎給消費者讓他們要去做額外的負擔那我們現在講的這些你現在講這個一次性備品\n\n02:00.774 --> 02:25.493\n現在很多這個業者旅宿業者他們就不斷的在擴張這個一次性備品包含他們在販賣機就直接設在一樓最後你還是要去那邊一樓再買這一些不環保的東西嘛那有些國外的重要的貴賓來到台灣然後最後說因為他們住的這些飯店沒有這些一次性的備品所以他們走到樓下跑到便利商店買更昂貴的一次性備品\n\n02:26.314 --> 02:50.302\n而且他們只用一次這些本來可以長期使用的這些牙刷牙膏所有的備品他們就把它拿去用一次然後一樣丟在飯店的垃圾桶裡面所以這個事情是明明就已經出現跟民意有很大差別的地方我還是強調說如果這樣搞的話未來是不是航空公司這個比較長時間的旅程的話叫他們也不可以來去提供一次性的備品\n\n02:51.750 --> 03:06.225\n再繼續擴張我們這樣不斷的擴張的時候沒有任何一個部門它的意志是可以超越其他的部門的我們同時也要跟交通部要跟觀光署去協調旅宿業者也不是只有消費者感到難過\n\n03:07.826 --> 03:23.911\n女書業者也覺得他們品牌壓力啊其他的國家同樣的品牌同樣的新等在台灣要付出的價格更多服務種類更少提供的備品也是更少的那你怎麼做他們的差異化怎麼樣做出他們服務差異化怎麼樣提高我們的國旅\n\n03:24.831 --> 03:43.598\n我的意思是說我們當然支持這樣的環保政策但是部長可不可以來思考一下有沒有辦法來找到一個同時平衡我國的觀光旅遊的平衡點可不可以試著去思考一下比方說不要用懲罰的方式可不可以用獎勵的方式\n\n03:44.238 --> 04:11.414\n在日本大家很愛拿日本當例子但事實上日本的這些星級飯店或者是一般的飯店就是有提供有提供的時候他們提出來的這樣的一次性備品會付諸說他們減少了百分之比方說他們減少了百分之三十的排放量或者是說他們會說他們使用什麼樣的替代性的可持續性的這些原料來去做這些備品這些東西就是可以找出我們可以共生的這種方式\n\n04:13.246 --> 04:27.467\n我一直都認為環境的政策是一步一步來的我們不必要一次性的來用這樣子環保至上之後然後來去把其他的可以發展的空間就把它限縮掉了部長可不可以簡單回應我們一下好謝謝委員\n\n04:29.529 --> 04:58.137\n環保這是我們的一個目標啦當然我同意委員的看法就是說大家改變的時候可能沒有那麼的習慣那這個部分我們會來檢討例如說在今年未來明年的話可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵來輔助這樣的一個措施不過因為整個像歐洲很多的國家或是其實我們有統計有數據很多的國家都已經這樣做了所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估是不是可以在在這種獎勵上面能夠做一些鼓勵可不可以用獎勵來代替這種懲罰因為我看你們用這個\n\n04:59.237 --> 05:15.207\n其實懲罰現在的方式因為執行是在地方單位其實真的懲罰沒有那麼的多但是我們還是期待民眾可以自己帶這個要養成的確是要一兩年的時間我都是自己帶啦我先跟大家講說但我不會把我自己的價值觀強壓在其他的消費者身上\n\n05:16.267 --> 05:31.560\n我不覺得說我們要把我們自己的價值觀強壓在我們其他消費者上的原因就是說你也可以選擇不使用嘛你的背景就是你也可以選擇不使用為什麼一定要把自己的價值觀然後全部再強壓在其他人身上包委員那個不使用對旅館而言它還是丟掉還是造成一些很大的浪費\n\n05:32.501 --> 05:55.952\n所以基本上這個是多數國家它本來就有的作為但是委員你提的建議很好因為我們也看到有一些業者給我們一些不一樣的聲音我們也都聽到了我的建議還是一樣就不要一刀切嘛你這旅宿業者有各種各樣的旅宿業者嘛你喜歡說像日本他們有溫泉旅館他們有這種新級的酒店他們會有像這樣子的這種會議型的這種旅館\n\n05:57.153 --> 06:23.564\n很多現在台灣的來台灣旅遊的國際旅客他不是只以純觀光旅遊為目的有些是因為參加會議啊你參加會議的時候將來把所有的備品都帶在身上那你要不要做一個區格化支持但是不可以這樣子一刀切全部全面都用同樣的方式來去對每一個旅宿業者你認為他們都只是都他們都serve同樣的目的沒有有些是為了會議的有些為了觀光的有些是家庭旅遊的那家庭旅遊\n\n06:24.364 --> 06:41.881\n你沒有備品你要叫他們已經要帶很多東西然後又要再準備更多東西來參加會議的有些兩天一夜的你要叫他們再把東西全部帶過來我提到的原因就是因為就真的是很多人在跟我們反映從民宿業者從觀光業者到一般民眾到外國的政要都覺得說很\n\n06:42.581 --> 06:56.296\n這是一件很奇妙的事情為什麼一定要這樣謝謝委員那個環保的確是有一點不麻煩跟以前習慣不一樣但是這是正確走的路但是委員提到的是說我們是不是有一點修正然後鼓勵的方法我們會來研議好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.679,"end":11.196,"text":"那我們請環境部部長好 請環境部彭部長"},{"start":13.98,"end":37.205,"text":"车委好部长今年环境部他针对旅宿用品公告一次性的用品限制那我也请教了我们这个观光署的署长那他们认为说这也是有必要要去调整去改进的因为他对观光业的影响是非常大的那有很多民怨所以我要直接在这边"},{"start":38.186,"end":45.447,"text":"來替我們所有的民眾跟這些旅宿業者來請命希望說一次性備品的機率必須要有調整部長你怎麼看"},{"start":46.711,"end":70.968,"text":"包委員 這個其實是一開始不習慣啦 不習慣但是我們自己統計過 我們也做過一個民調大概有將近七成多的民眾是支持的天啊 你這個民調是怎麼做的我們有問問誰 哪一個公司樣本多少你們做兩次民調然後超過七成的人都同意這樣的做法但是我必須說你們的問題 問卷 我都很懷疑喔"},{"start":71.728,"end":97.383,"text":"這跟我們得到的所有的旅宿業者跟一般民眾的看法是完全天翻地覆的完全不一致的嘛我不知道你們是怎麼樣做的民調這是真的委託專業人士去做的民調哪一間公司嗎你這樣民調就跟當初高鐵說這個高鐵公司也有做民調然後說80%以上的人都支持臨近車廂直到民眾反彈新聞反彈然後他們說他們也有民調"},{"start":98.652,"end":119.753,"text":"其實包委員 任何的改變環保這個其實全世界在歐洲優先持續 這個部長我們一開始也跟你討論過我們之前也是很重視我們這個環境的問題包含快食上我們都很重視但是我們不要把這種東西把它歸咎給消費者讓他們要去做額外的負擔那我們現在講的這些你現在講這個一次性備品"},{"start":120.774,"end":145.493,"text":"現在很多這個業者 旅宿業者他們就不斷的在擴張這個一次性備品包含他們在販賣機就直接設在一樓最後你還是要去那邊一樓再買這一些不環保的東西嘛那有些國外的重要的貴賓來到台灣然後最後說因為他們住的這些飯店沒有這些一次性的備品所以他們走到樓下跑到便利商店買更昂貴的一次性備品"},{"start":146.314,"end":170.302,"text":"而且他們只用一次 這些本來可以長期使用的這些牙刷 牙膏所有的備品 他們就把它拿去用一次然後一樣丟在飯店的垃圾桶裡面所以這個事情是明明就已經出現 跟民意有很大差別的地方我還是強調說 如果這樣搞的話未來是不是航空公司 這個比較長時間的旅程的話叫他們也不可以來去提供一次性的備品"},{"start":171.75,"end":186.225,"text":"再繼續擴張我們這樣不斷的擴張的時候沒有任何一個部門它的意志是可以超越其他的部門的我們同時也要跟交通部要跟觀光署去協調旅宿業者也不是只有消費者感到難過"},{"start":187.826,"end":203.911,"text":"女書業者也覺得他們品牌壓力啊其他的國家同樣的品牌同樣的新等在台灣要付出的價格更多服務種類更少提供的備品也是更少的那你怎麼做他們的差異化怎麼樣做出他們服務差異化怎麼樣提高我們的國旅"},{"start":204.831,"end":223.598,"text":"我的意思是說我們當然支持這樣的環保政策但是部長可不可以來思考一下有沒有辦法來找到一個同時平衡我國的觀光旅遊的平衡點可不可以試著去思考一下比方說不要用懲罰的方式可不可以用獎勵的方式"},{"start":224.238,"end":251.414,"text":"在日本 大家很愛拿日本當例子但事實上日本的這些星級飯店或者是一般的飯店就是有提供有提供的時候他們提出來的這樣的一次性備品會付諸說他們減少了百分之比方說他們減少了百分之三十的排放量或者是說他們會說他們使用什麼樣的替代性的可持續性的這些原料來去做這些備品這些東西就是可以找出我們可以共生的這種方式"},{"start":253.246,"end":267.467,"text":"我一直都認為環境的政策是一步一步來的我們不必要一次性的來用這樣子環保至上之後然後來去把其他的可以發展的空間就把它限縮掉了部長可不可以簡單回應我們一下好 謝謝委員"},{"start":269.529,"end":298.137,"text":"環保這是我們的一個目標啦當然我同意委員的看法就是說大家改變的時候可能沒有那麼的習慣那這個部分我們會來檢討例如說在今年未來明年的話可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵來輔助這樣的一個措施不過因為整個像歐洲很多的國家或是其實我們有統計有數據很多的國家都已經這樣做了所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估是不是可以在在這種獎勵上面能夠做一些鼓勵可不可以用獎勵來代替這種懲罰因為我看你們用這個"},{"start":299.237,"end":315.207,"text":"其實懲罰現在的方式因為執行是在地方單位其實真的懲罰沒有那麼的多但是我們還是期待民眾可以自己帶這個要養成的確是要一兩年的時間我都是自己帶啦我先跟大家講說但我不會把我自己的價值觀強壓在其他的消費者身上"},{"start":316.267,"end":331.56,"text":"我不覺得說我們要把我們自己的價值觀強壓在我們其他消費者上的原因就是說你也可以選擇不使用嘛你的背景就是你也可以選擇不使用為什麼一定要把自己的價值觀然後全部再強壓在其他人身上包委員那個不使用對旅館而言它還是丟掉還是造成一些很大的浪費"},{"start":332.501,"end":355.952,"text":"所以基本上這個是多數國家它本來就有的作為但是委員你提的建議很好因為我們也看到有一些業者給我們一些不一樣的聲音我們也都聽到了我的建議還是一樣就不要一刀切嘛你這旅宿業者有各種各樣的旅宿業者嘛你喜歡說像日本他們有溫泉旅館他們有這種新級的酒店他們會有像這樣子的這種會議型的這種旅館"},{"start":357.153,"end":383.564,"text":"很多現在台灣的來台灣旅遊的國際旅客他不是只以純觀光旅遊為目的有些是因為參加會議啊你參加會議的時候將來把所有的備品都帶在身上那你要不要做一個區格化支持但是不可以這樣子一刀切全部全面都用同樣的方式來去對每一個旅宿業者你認為他們都只是都他們都serve同樣的目的沒有有些是為了會議的有些為了觀光的有些是家庭旅遊的那家庭旅遊"},{"start":384.364,"end":401.881,"text":"你沒有備品你要叫他們已經要帶很多東西然後又要再準備更多東西來參加會議的有些兩天一夜的你要叫他們再把東西全部帶過來我提到的原因就是因為就真的是很多人在跟我們反映從民宿業者 從觀光業者到一般民眾到外國的政要都覺得說很"},{"start":402.581,"end":416.296,"text":"這是一件很奇妙的事情為什麼一定要這樣謝謝委員那個環保的確是有一點不麻煩跟以前習慣不一樣但是這是正確走的路但是委員提到的是說我們是不是有一點修正然後鼓勵的方法我們會來研議好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1096,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（12時1分）您好，我們請環境部部長。"],["主席：請環境部彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，今年環境部針對旅宿用品公告一次性用品的限制，我也請教了觀光署署長，他們也認為有必要調整和改進，因為對觀光業的影響非常大，有很多民怨。所以我要直接在這邊替我們所有的民眾跟旅宿業者請命，希望一次性備品的禁令必須要調整，部長你怎麼看？"],["彭部長啓明：其實這是一開始不習慣，我們自己統計過，也做過民調，大概有將近七成多的民眾是支持的。"],["陳委員冠廷：喔天啊！你這個民調是怎麼做的？"],["彭部長啓明：我們有問……"],["陳委員冠廷：問誰？哪一個公司？樣本多少？你們做過兩次民調，然後然後超過七成的人都同意這樣的作法？"],["彭部長啓明：對，但是我必須說，如果……"],["陳委員冠廷：你們的問題、問卷我很懷疑，這跟我們得到所有的旅宿業者和一般民眾的看法，是完全天翻地覆的不一致，我不知道你們是怎麼做的民調欸！"],["彭部長啓明：這真的是委託專業人士去做的民調。"],["陳委員冠廷：哪一間公司？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：我們是由……"],["陳委員冠廷：你這民調就跟當初高鐵公司說他們有做民調，說80%以上的人都支持寧靜車廂，直到民眾反彈、新聞反彈，但他們說他們也有民調。"],["彭部長啓明：其實任何的改變環保，全世界在歐洲……"],["陳委員冠廷：優先順序，部長，我們一開始也跟你討論過，我們之前也很重視環境的問題，包含「快時尚」我們都很重視，但是我們不要把這種東西歸咎給消費者，讓他們去做額外的負擔嘛！現在講一次性備品，很多旅宿業者就不斷的在擴張一次性備品，包含他們將販賣機直接設在一樓，最後你還是要去一樓買這些不環保的東西嘛！","有些國外重要的貴賓來到臺灣，因為他們住的飯店沒有這些一次性備品，所以他們跑到樓下、便利商店買更昂貴的一次性備品，而且他們只用一次。這些本來可以長期使用的牙刷、牙膏等所有備品他們就用一次，然後一樣丟在飯店的垃圾桶，所以明明就已經出現跟民意落差很大的地方。","我還是強調，如果這樣搞的話，未來是不是航空公司長時間的旅程，叫他們也不可以提供一次性的備品？再繼續擴張嘛！那我們在不斷擴張的時候，沒有任何一個部門的意志是可以超越其他的部門，我們同時也要跟交通部觀光署協調啊！也不是只有消費者感到難過，旅宿業者也覺得他們有品牌壓力啊！其他國家同樣的品牌、同樣的星等，在臺灣要付出的價格更多、服務種類更少、提供的備品也更少，你要他們怎麼做出服務的差異化？怎樣提高我們的國旅？","我的意思是，我們當然支持這樣的環保政策，但是部長可不可以思考一下，有沒有辦法找到一個同時平衡我國觀光旅遊的平衡點？可不可以試著去思考一下？比方說不要用懲罰的方式，可不可以用獎勵的方式？大家很愛拿日本當例子，但事實上日本的這些星級飯店，或者是一般飯店就是有提供啊！提供一次性備品的時候，他們會附註他們減少了比方說30%的排放量，或者他們會說使用了什麼樣替代性、可持續性的原料來做這些備品，這些就是找出我們可以共生的方式嘛！","我一直都認為，環境的政策是一步一步來的，我們不必要一次性用這種環保至上，然後把其他可以發展的空間限縮掉了，部長可不可以簡單回應一下？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，環保就是我們的一個目標啦！當然我同意委員的看法，就是改變的時候，大家可能沒有那麼的習慣，這部分我們會檢討，例如說在今年，未來明年的話，可不可以有一些配套的措施來獎勵、補助。不過因為像歐洲很多的國家，其實我們有統計、有數據，很多國家都已經這樣做了，所以委員的建議我們會來做一個評估，是不是可以在獎勵上做一些鼓勵。"],["陳委員冠廷：可不可以用獎勵來代替懲罰？因為我看你們用這個……"],["彭部長啓明：委員，因為懲罰執行是在地方單位，其實真的懲罰沒有那麼多，但我們還是期待民眾可以自己帶，這個要養成的確是要一、兩年的時間。"],["陳委員冠廷：我都是自己帶啦！我先跟大家講，但我不會把自己的價值觀強壓在其他消費者身上啊！我不覺得我們要把自己的價值觀強壓在其他消費者身上的原因，就是你可以選擇不使用嘛！備品就是你也可以選擇不使用，為什麼一定要把自己的價值觀全部強壓在其他人身上？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，不使用對旅館而言還是丟掉，還是造成很大的浪費，基本上，這個是多數國家本來就有的作為，但是委員提的建議很好，因為我們也看到有一些業者給我們不一樣的聲音，我們也都聽到了。"],["陳委員冠廷：我的建議還是一樣，不要一刀切嘛！旅宿業者有各種各樣的旅宿業者，像日本有溫泉旅館、有星級酒店，也有會議型的旅館，現在很多來臺灣的國際旅客，他不是只以純觀光旅遊為目的，有些是因為參加會議啊！你參加會議的時候，叫他們把所有的備品都帶在身上？那你要不要做一個區隔化？支持，但是不可以這樣子一刀切，全部、全面都用同樣的方式去對每一個旅宿者，你認為他們都設同樣的目的？沒有，有些是為了會議，有些為了觀光，有些是家庭旅遊的。家庭旅遊你沒有備品，他們已經要帶很多東西，然後又要再準備更多東西；來參加會議的，有些兩天一夜的，你要叫他們再把東西全部帶過來。我提這些的原因，就是因為真的很多人在跟我們反映啊！從民宿業者、觀光業者、一般民眾，再到外國的政要，都覺得這是一件很奇妙的事情，為什麼一定要這樣？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，環保的確是有一點麻煩，跟以前習慣不一樣，但這是正確的路，委員提到的是我們是不是要有一點修正，然後用鼓勵的方法，這我們會來研議。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席（廖委員偉翔）：謝謝陳冠廷委員發言。","請涂權吉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}