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12:29:20","影片長度":"00:10:48","會議時間":"2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查\n(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n【二、(二)及(三)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-05","start_time":"2025-11-05T12:18:32+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-05T12:29:20+08:00","duration":648,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"165100","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165100","tool":"pyannote","id":"165100-pyannote"},"job_id":"DpqSgJRuZX8dVP4I","queued_at":"2025-11-05 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00:01:01,978\n環境部跟地方的環保局那到這個養豬場這後面就農業部在處理那我想請教就是說如果是有條件的開放那未來就像現在我們這一場發生非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場他也是沒有確實把這個資料上傳那未來是不是\n\n4\n00:01:02,739 --> 00:01:30,627\n有什麼樣的方式能夠更有效如果說有養豬場他確實也要用這個廚餘來養豬的話那你們現在應該要去想到怎麼樣去有效的去監控如果這個養豬場如果像現在的話他只是傳照片其實你自己原本也沒辦法去分辨他這個照片到底是什麼時候的照片什麼時候傳你根本都不知道那是不是可以用比較及時\n\n5\n00:01:31,727 --> 00:01:49,493\n可能動態及時的這種監控的方式是不是做得到報告委員這個我們已經都有寫在我們的指引而且已經有找到解決方案了那如果說這個農業部規範相關的規定因為那個裡面有第一個法規要修正\n\n6\n00:01:50,273 --> 00:02:14,850\n農業部的法規要修正我們都內部協調了第二個我們什麼時候可以完成目前我們都有找到相關的技術的可行性例如說CCTV直接看到有幾個蒸煮廠第二個是溫度的探針到煮潮裡面可以每一個小時每一分鐘都可以看得到它的量是不是煮了60分鐘有沒有90度所以這個部分我們如果可以即時監控的話\n\n7\n00:02:15,510 --> 00:02:29,761\n按照這個我們跟農業部的一個共識可能就可以開放珍珠不過這個還是要政策上的最後決定那現在呢我們就在等跟農業部跨部會在協調當中那我也必須透過委員這樣說其實除於珍珠不是\n\n8\n00:02:31,362 --> 00:02:53,143\n万恶不赦它是循环经济的一个一环我们必须要肯定我们过去的厨余的处理的成本透过养猪的程序帮我们消化掉如果回到完全不要有厨余的话其实的确会增加很多餐厅还有我们家户的厨余的变成废弃物的一种成本所以我们也必须去考量所以后面的处理我们正在规划当中\n\n9\n00:02:54,183 --> 00:03:11,034\n我希望就是說後面如果後續還有這個處於養豬的話我覺得監控這個真的非常重要就是說像這個爆發非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場其實他在4月份過後可能就不正常的這個傳輸你們根本也都不知道\n\n10\n00:03:11,494 --> 00:03:26,620\n可能地方的環保局他也沒有確實好去掌握那如果地方政府沒辦法確實掌握那中央政府怎麼去管我是不是可以先請教部長如果地方譬如說這個養豬場由地方的環保局來監控\n\n11\n00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:46,150\n那地方環保局如果沒有很確實去監控的話那中央政府這邊怎麼去知道包委員其實現在我們過去的制度是都有照片也知道日期所以那幾家沒有做得好的我們都有數據然後都通知地方環保局他們第一線去監控我們再去複查\n\n12\n00:03:46,650 --> 00:04:01,472\n那未來呢像這樣的話就是即時的所以我們環境部農業部跟地方環保局甚至豬農他都完全可以看到那個數據所以未來呢會是一個不是像這樣有時間落差的檢討方式所以就是地方政府看得到地方的環保局看得到然後中央可能你們這邊\n\n13\n00:04:02,674 --> 00:04:18,430\n某個單位也都看得到同一個資料平台就可以看到監控這個數據我覺得這樣就可以讓大家心安另外部長我也想請教就是說之前有提到統一的真主中心未來這個政策會去推動嗎\n\n14\n00:04:19,691 --> 00:04:48,177\n跟委員報告因為統一珍珠的這個部分那可能要是那個各縣市的它的這個規模那所以目前來說一般200頭以上的大型的這個這個豬場的話它大概都是有自己的珍珠設備那所以我們可能就是透過剛剛彭部長所說的這種即時的CCTV包括溫度監控上傳的這樣的一個資訊還有修訂我們的這個法規相關那變成能夠即時監控然後可以落實的這個狀況之下\n\n15\n00:04:49,457 --> 00:05:10,188\n再繼續推動那如果說沒有到這個養豬場的也許還有一些廚餘那你們後續這些要怎麼處理就是說我們可能各縣市有的廚餘他可能透過清潔隊有的就直接到養豬場那有些可能沒有到養豬場那像這樣子的話你們後續會怎麼處理\n\n16\n00:05:13,730 --> 00:05:28,117\n直接進到焚化爐嗎沒有其實現在進到焚化爐是不得已的做法因為這個其實除於是有生命其實是有價值的東西應該把它能源化堆肥化或是用黑水盲所以我們的確現在未來這幾年會規劃\n\n17\n00:05:29,998 --> 00:05:47,993\n到底量能什麼時候起來就是不要去送焚化爐啦因為送焚化爐其實浪費了浪費了也對於這個原來的垃圾也會造成很大的排擠所以我們現在正在規劃現在正在精密的算但是每個縣市不一樣像這個雲林它雖然說它不用廚餘未租可是雲林的\n\n18\n00:05:48,633 --> 00:06:10,839\n这个猪的厨余也是跑到彰化去啊所以就造成很大的负担那未来呢清洁的部分有可能会从过去的养猪场去收厨余未来会产生一些改变那这个改变呢现在我们正在协调当中未来可能会是一种专业的收厨余的团队在收厨余也有可能在做清理这个未来都有可能会发生\n\n19\n00:06:11,519 --> 00:06:31,640\n好那那接下來我再請教就是說像這個就是養豬場他也許自己收了這個廚餘那收的廚餘可能吃不完嗎然後就給其他的這個養豬場好那那像類似這樣的狀況或者是這個養豬場我上我這個禮拜也有特別問到就是說有的比較小的這個養豬場\n\n20\n00:06:33,081 --> 00:06:58,729\n那可能就是非常小場然後養了幾十隻那他就是收可能這個一般家戶的就是人家直接拿到這個養豬場外面就直接丟著就知道他有在用廚餘餵豬嘛那未來像這樣的狀況到底是可以或者是不可以委員現在是200頭以下都不可以200頭以上所以像委員講的那個情況問題是這個確實是存在的啊\n\n21\n00:07:00,102 --> 00:07:20,109\n對所以這個其實是未來是不允許的這個都是有罰則的目前是有罰則的所以其實就是說我們管控其實也不嚴格在200頭以下的這個禁止處於養豬的這個部分事實上我們在這個都有透過這個定期的查訪去做這樣的一個落實\n\n22\n00:07:22,617 --> 00:07:37,729\n好那你们说有确实那其实确实地方还是有这样的这种状况存在那最后我想请教这个农业部就是说原本是预计11月7号猪就可以开始拍卖\n\n23\n00:07:38,690 --> 00:08:07,710\n11月7號嘛對不對這個事情的話我們的統一步調就是由我們的這個中央非洲豬瘟的防災中心來做應變因為這個包括了很多綜合的判斷那就就這個要由這個我們的中央災害應變中心所以是今天下午才會公佈嗎是是是我全部都要看這個中央災害應變中心那邊的那如果因為有很多這個有一些縣市已經說11月7號有一些縣市已經說11月7號豬隻就可以開始拍賣\n\n24\n00:08:08,570 --> 00:08:31,912\n是不是這樣子這個部分的話必須要澄清因為我們這次的這個禁令是透過動傳法的這樣的一個限制那因為這個是屬於甲類的這樣的一個傳染動物傳染性疾病那他會擴及的這個範圍很大那所以基本上才會成立說中央災害應變中心來處理這樣的一個問題所以基本上是不是開放這個部分一定是由中央災害應變中心來做公佈跟宣示\n\n25\n00:08:33,053 --> 00:08:55,859\n那我想請教就是說如果就是按照原本的期程就是說11月7號如果啦如果還是按照原本的期程11月7號可以拍賣那原本在這個禁運的這當中有35萬頭至39萬頭的這些豬那一下子我不知道說到底要怎麼去消化或者是整個豬的價格會不會因此而崩盤\n\n26\n00:08:57,619 --> 00:09:20,596\n跟委員報告那事實上我們事實上有掌握到就是說在這個這個禁運的這個期間那事實上大概陳副委員所說的會有這樣的一個數量出來那所以我們也啟動了一些相關的這個機制比如說已經超過市場規格的這個豬的話優先進入屠宰場去做這樣的相關去化的這樣的處理那或者是收購那還有我們的這個\n\n27\n00:09:23,117 --> 00:09:48,971\n每天能夠屠宰的量從本來平均的一天大概兩萬多頭可能會提高到三萬多頭的這個部分那但是我們也不希望一次能夠太多出來因為這樣子也會造成價格的這個崩跌還是必須要看市場的需求啦所以這個部分我們都有掌握然後也透過了跟一些這個肉品工協會的這樣的一個聯繫希望能夠達到穩定租價也穩定這個供需這樣的一個需求\n\n28\n00:09:49,991 --> 00:10:12,201\n我在這邊可能也要建議一下就是說在禁運當中有35到39萬頭豬那有的可能又吃了十幾天那個豬的重量又變大了那當然這些豬農他們會希望趕快把它賣出去所以我希望就是說農業部這邊應該也要找通路商還有可能一些冷凍\n\n29\n00:10:13,021 --> 00:10:41,653\n就是可以先把這些比較重的這些豬應該可以先拍賣然後冷凍起來我覺得應該可以透過這樣的機制來處理是謝謝委員我們有往這個方向再考慮跟處理好那我希望說不要有這種讓豬農覺得說這個會有崩盤的這種狀況出現所以我希望農業部可能要及時如果有類似這樣的狀況真的要去協調通路商趕快把這個問題解決\n\n30\n00:10:42,933 --> 00:10:42,953\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4883\t7536\t謝謝主席 我們請彭部長還有農業部的次長\n9793\t38576\t部長跟次長謝謝王委員好部長好部長我想先請教就是說從非洲豬瘟爆發到現在其實大家關心的就是儲雨處理後續怎麼去處理那昨天那個農業部的部長他有對外表示就是說原則就是儲雨原則禁止那有條件的開放有條件的開放那我想請教就是說其實在這個儲雨的前端是\n39296\t61978\t環境部跟地方的環保局那到這個養豬場這後面就農業部在處理那我想請教就是說如果是有條件的開放那未來就像現在我們這一場發生非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場他也是沒有確實把這個資料上傳那未來是不是\n62739\t90627\t有什麼樣的方式能夠更有效如果說有養豬場他確實也要用這個廚餘來養豬的話那你們現在應該要去想到怎麼樣去有效的去監控如果這個養豬場如果像現在的話他只是傳照片其實你自己原本也沒辦法去分辨他這個照片到底是什麼時候的照片什麼時候傳你根本都不知道那是不是可以用比較及時\n91727\t109493\t可能動態及時的這種監控的方式是不是做得到報告委員 這個我們已經都有寫在我們的指引而且已經有找到解決方案了那如果說這個農業部規範相關的規定因為那個裡面有第一個法規要修正\n110273\t134850\t農業部的法規要修正我們都內部協調了第二個我們什麼時候可以完成目前我們都有找到相關的技術的可行性例如說CCTV直接看到有幾個蒸煮廠第二個是溫度的探針到煮潮裡面可以每一個小時每一分鐘都可以看得到它的量是不是煮了60分鐘有沒有90度所以這個部分我們如果可以即時監控的話\n135510\t149761\t按照這個我們跟農業部的一個共識可能就可以開放珍珠不過這個還是要政策上的最後決定那現在呢我們就在等跟農業部跨部會在協調當中那我也必須透過委員這樣說其實除於珍珠不是\n151362\t173143\t万恶不赦它是循环经济的一个一环我们必须要肯定我们过去的厨余的处理的成本透过养猪的程序帮我们消化掉如果回到完全不要有厨余的话其实的确会增加很多餐厅还有我们家户的厨余的变成废弃物的一种成本所以我们也必须去考量所以后面的处理我们正在规划当中\n174183\t191034\t我希望就是說後面如果後續還有這個處於養豬的話我覺得監控這個真的非常重要就是說像這個爆發非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場其實他在4月份過後可能就不正常的這個傳輸你們根本也都不知道\n191494\t206620\t可能地方的環保局他也沒有確實好去掌握那如果地方政府沒辦法確實掌握那中央政府怎麼去管我是不是可以先請教部長如果地方譬如說這個養豬場由地方的環保局來監控\n207700\t226150\t那地方環保局如果沒有很確實去監控的話那中央政府這邊怎麼去知道包委員其實現在我們過去的制度是都有照片也知道日期所以那幾家沒有做得好的我們都有數據然後都通知地方環保局他們第一線去監控我們再去複查\n226650\t241472\t那未來呢像這樣的話就是即時的所以我們環境部農業部跟地方環保局甚至豬農他都完全可以看到那個數據所以未來呢會是一個不是像這樣有時間落差的檢討方式所以就是地方政府看得到地方的環保局看得到然後中央可能你們這邊\n242674\t258430\t某個單位也都看得到同一個資料平台就可以看到監控這個數據我覺得這樣就可以讓大家心安另外部長我也想請教就是說之前有提到統一的真主中心未來這個政策會去推動嗎\n259691\t288177\t跟委員報告因為統一珍珠的這個部分那可能要是那個各縣市的它的這個規模那所以目前來說一般200頭以上的大型的這個這個豬場的話它大概都是有自己的珍珠設備那所以我們可能就是透過剛剛彭部長所說的這種即時的CCTV包括溫度監控上傳的這樣的一個資訊還有修訂我們的這個法規相關那變成能夠即時監控然後可以落實的這個狀況之下\n289457\t310188\t再繼續推動那如果說沒有到這個養豬場的也許還有一些廚餘那你們後續這些要怎麼處理就是說我們可能各縣市有的廚餘他可能透過清潔隊有的就直接到養豬場那有些可能沒有到養豬場那像這樣子的話你們後續會怎麼處理\n313730\t328117\t直接進到焚化爐嗎沒有 其實現在進到焚化爐是不得已的做法因為這個其實除於是有生命其實是有價值的東西應該把它能源化堆肥化或是用黑水盲所以我們的確現在未來這幾年會規劃\n329998\t347993\t到底量能什麼時候起來就是不要去送焚化爐啦因為送焚化爐其實浪費了浪費了也對於這個原來的垃圾也會造成很大的排擠所以我們現在正在規劃現在正在精密的算但是每個縣市不一樣像這個雲林它雖然說它不用廚餘未租可是雲林的\n348633\t370839\t这个猪的厨余也是跑到彰化去啊所以就造成很大的负担那未来呢清洁的部分有可能会从过去的养猪场去收厨余未来会产生一些改变那这个改变呢现在我们正在协调当中未来可能会是一种专业的收厨余的团队在收厨余也有可能在做清理这个未来都有可能会发生\n371519\t391640\t好那那接下來我再請教就是說像這個就是養豬場他也許自己收了這個廚餘那收的廚餘可能吃不完嗎然後就給其他的這個養豬場好那那像類似這樣的狀況或者是這個養豬場我上我這個禮拜也有特別問到就是說有的比較小的這個養豬場\n393081\t418729\t那可能就是非常小場然後養了幾十隻那他就是收可能這個一般家戶的就是人家直接拿到這個養豬場外面就直接丟著就知道他有在用廚餘餵豬嘛那未來像這樣的狀況到底是可以或者是不可以委員現在是200頭以下都不可以200頭以上所以像委員講的那個情況問題是這個確實是存在的啊\n420102\t440109\t對 所以這個其實是未來是不允許的這個都是有罰則的 目前是有罰則的所以其實就是說我們管控其實也不嚴格在200頭以下的這個禁止處於養豬的這個部分事實上我們在這個都有透過這個定期的查訪去做這樣的一個落實\n442617\t457729\t好那你们说有确实那其实确实地方还是有这样的这种状况存在那最后我想请教这个农业部就是说原本是预计11月7号猪就可以开始拍卖\n458690\t487710\t11月7號嘛對不對這個事情的話我們的統一步調就是由我們的這個中央非洲豬瘟的防災中心來做應變因為這個包括了很多綜合的判斷那就就這個要由這個我們的中央災害應變中心所以是今天下午才會公佈嗎是是是我全部都要看這個中央災害應變中心那邊的那如果因為有很多這個有一些縣市已經說11月7號有一些縣市已經說11月7號豬隻就可以開始拍賣\n488570\t511912\t是不是這樣子這個部分的話必須要澄清因為我們這次的這個禁令是透過動傳法的這樣的一個限制那因為這個是屬於甲類的這樣的一個傳染動物傳染性疾病那他會擴及的這個範圍很大那所以基本上才會成立說中央災害應變中心來處理這樣的一個問題所以基本上是不是開放這個部分一定是由中央災害應變中心來做公佈跟宣示\n513053\t535859\t那我想請教就是說如果就是按照原本的期程就是說11月7號如果啦如果還是按照原本的期程11月7號可以拍賣那原本在這個禁運的這當中有35萬頭至39萬頭的這些豬那一下子我不知道說到底要怎麼去消化或者是整個豬的價格會不會因此而崩盤\n537619\t560596\t跟委員報告那事實上我們事實上有掌握到就是說在這個這個禁運的這個期間那事實上大概陳副委員所說的會有這樣的一個數量出來那所以我們也啟動了一些相關的這個機制比如說已經超過市場規格的這個豬的話優先進入屠宰場去做這樣的相關去化的這樣的處理那或者是收購那還有我們的這個\n563117\t588971\t每天能夠屠宰的量從本來平均的一天大概兩萬多頭可能會提高到三萬多頭的這個部分那但是我們也不希望一次能夠太多出來因為這樣子也會造成價格的這個崩跌還是必須要看市場的需求啦所以這個部分我們都有掌握然後也透過了跟一些這個肉品工協會的這樣的一個聯繫希望能夠達到穩定租價也穩定這個供需這樣的一個需求\n589991\t612201\t我在這邊可能也要建議一下就是說在禁運當中有35到39萬頭豬那有的可能又吃了十幾天那個豬的重量又變大了那當然這些豬農他們會希望趕快把它賣出去所以我希望就是說農業部這邊應該也要找通路商還有可能一些冷凍\n613021\t641653\t就是可以先把這些比較重的這些豬應該可以先拍賣然後冷凍起來我覺得應該可以透過這樣的機制來處理是 謝謝委員我們有往這個方向再考慮跟處理好 那我希望說不要有這種讓豬農覺得說這個會有崩盤的這種狀況出現所以我希望農業部可能要及時如果有類似這樣的狀況真的要去協調通路商趕快把這個問題解決\n642933\t642953\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請彭部長還有農業部的次長\n部長跟次長謝謝王委員好部長好部長我想先請教就是說從非洲豬瘟爆發到現在其實大家關心的就是儲雨處理後續怎麼去處理那昨天那個農業部的部長他有對外表示就是說原則就是儲雨原則禁止那有條件的開放有條件的開放那我想請教就是說其實在這個儲雨的前端是\n環境部跟地方的環保局那到這個養豬場這後面就農業部在處理那我想請教就是說如果是有條件的開放那未來就像現在我們這一場發生非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場他也是沒有確實把這個資料上傳那未來是不是\n有什麼樣的方式能夠更有效如果說有養豬場他確實也要用這個廚餘來養豬的話那你們現在應該要去想到怎麼樣去有效的去監控如果這個養豬場如果像現在的話他只是傳照片其實你自己原本也沒辦法去分辨他這個照片到底是什麼時候的照片什麼時候傳你根本都不知道那是不是可以用比較及時\n可能動態及時的這種監控的方式是不是做得到報告委員 這個我們已經都有寫在我們的指引而且已經有找到解決方案了那如果說這個農業部規範相關的規定因為那個裡面有第一個法規要修正\n農業部的法規要修正我們都內部協調了第二個我們什麼時候可以完成目前我們都有找到相關的技術的可行性例如說CCTV直接看到有幾個蒸煮廠第二個是溫度的探針到煮潮裡面可以每一個小時每一分鐘都可以看得到它的量是不是煮了60分鐘有沒有90度所以這個部分我們如果可以即時監控的話\n按照這個我們跟農業部的一個共識可能就可以開放珍珠不過這個還是要政策上的最後決定那現在呢我們就在等跟農業部跨部會在協調當中那我也必須透過委員這樣說其實除於珍珠不是\n万恶不赦它是循环经济的一个一环我们必须要肯定我们过去的厨余的处理的成本透过养猪的程序帮我们消化掉如果回到完全不要有厨余的话其实的确会增加很多餐厅还有我们家户的厨余的变成废弃物的一种成本所以我们也必须去考量所以后面的处理我们正在规划当中\n我希望就是說後面如果後續還有這個處於養豬的話我覺得監控這個真的非常重要就是說像這個爆發非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場其實他在4月份過後可能就不正常的這個傳輸你們根本也都不知道\n可能地方的環保局他也沒有確實好去掌握那如果地方政府沒辦法確實掌握那中央政府怎麼去管我是不是可以先請教部長如果地方譬如說這個養豬場由地方的環保局來監控\n那地方環保局如果沒有很確實去監控的話那中央政府這邊怎麼去知道包委員其實現在我們過去的制度是都有照片也知道日期所以那幾家沒有做得好的我們都有數據然後都通知地方環保局他們第一線去監控我們再去複查\n那未來呢像這樣的話就是即時的所以我們環境部農業部跟地方環保局甚至豬農他都完全可以看到那個數據所以未來呢會是一個不是像這樣有時間落差的檢討方式所以就是地方政府看得到地方的環保局看得到然後中央可能你們這邊\n某個單位也都看得到同一個資料平台就可以看到監控這個數據我覺得這樣就可以讓大家心安另外部長我也想請教就是說之前有提到統一的真主中心未來這個政策會去推動嗎\n跟委員報告因為統一珍珠的這個部分那可能要是那個各縣市的它的這個規模那所以目前來說一般200頭以上的大型的這個這個豬場的話它大概都是有自己的珍珠設備那所以我們可能就是透過剛剛彭部長所說的這種即時的CCTV包括溫度監控上傳的這樣的一個資訊還有修訂我們的這個法規相關那變成能夠即時監控然後可以落實的這個狀況之下\n再繼續推動那如果說沒有到這個養豬場的也許還有一些廚餘那你們後續這些要怎麼處理就是說我們可能各縣市有的廚餘他可能透過清潔隊有的就直接到養豬場那有些可能沒有到養豬場那像這樣子的話你們後續會怎麼處理\n直接進到焚化爐嗎沒有 其實現在進到焚化爐是不得已的做法因為這個其實除於是有生命其實是有價值的東西應該把它能源化堆肥化或是用黑水盲所以我們的確現在未來這幾年會規劃\n到底量能什麼時候起來就是不要去送焚化爐啦因為送焚化爐其實浪費了浪費了也對於這個原來的垃圾也會造成很大的排擠所以我們現在正在規劃現在正在精密的算但是每個縣市不一樣像這個雲林它雖然說它不用廚餘未租可是雲林的\n这个猪的厨余也是跑到彰化去啊所以就造成很大的负担那未来呢清洁的部分有可能会从过去的养猪场去收厨余未来会产生一些改变那这个改变呢现在我们正在协调当中未来可能会是一种专业的收厨余的团队在收厨余也有可能在做清理这个未来都有可能会发生\n好那那接下來我再請教就是說像這個就是養豬場他也許自己收了這個廚餘那收的廚餘可能吃不完嗎然後就給其他的這個養豬場好那那像類似這樣的狀況或者是這個養豬場我上我這個禮拜也有特別問到就是說有的比較小的這個養豬場\n那可能就是非常小場然後養了幾十隻那他就是收可能這個一般家戶的就是人家直接拿到這個養豬場外面就直接丟著就知道他有在用廚餘餵豬嘛那未來像這樣的狀況到底是可以或者是不可以委員現在是200頭以下都不可以200頭以上所以像委員講的那個情況問題是這個確實是存在的啊\n對 所以這個其實是未來是不允許的這個都是有罰則的 目前是有罰則的所以其實就是說我們管控其實也不嚴格在200頭以下的這個禁止處於養豬的這個部分事實上我們在這個都有透過這個定期的查訪去做這樣的一個落實\n好那你们说有确实那其实确实地方还是有这样的这种状况存在那最后我想请教这个农业部就是说原本是预计11月7号猪就可以开始拍卖\n11月7號嘛對不對這個事情的話我們的統一步調就是由我們的這個中央非洲豬瘟的防災中心來做應變因為這個包括了很多綜合的判斷那就就這個要由這個我們的中央災害應變中心所以是今天下午才會公佈嗎是是是我全部都要看這個中央災害應變中心那邊的那如果因為有很多這個有一些縣市已經說11月7號有一些縣市已經說11月7號豬隻就可以開始拍賣\n是不是這樣子這個部分的話必須要澄清因為我們這次的這個禁令是透過動傳法的這樣的一個限制那因為這個是屬於甲類的這樣的一個傳染動物傳染性疾病那他會擴及的這個範圍很大那所以基本上才會成立說中央災害應變中心來處理這樣的一個問題所以基本上是不是開放這個部分一定是由中央災害應變中心來做公佈跟宣示\n那我想請教就是說如果就是按照原本的期程就是說11月7號如果啦如果還是按照原本的期程11月7號可以拍賣那原本在這個禁運的這當中有35萬頭至39萬頭的這些豬那一下子我不知道說到底要怎麼去消化或者是整個豬的價格會不會因此而崩盤\n跟委員報告那事實上我們事實上有掌握到就是說在這個這個禁運的這個期間那事實上大概陳副委員所說的會有這樣的一個數量出來那所以我們也啟動了一些相關的這個機制比如說已經超過市場規格的這個豬的話優先進入屠宰場去做這樣的相關去化的這樣的處理那或者是收購那還有我們的這個\n每天能夠屠宰的量從本來平均的一天大概兩萬多頭可能會提高到三萬多頭的這個部分那但是我們也不希望一次能夠太多出來因為這樣子也會造成價格的這個崩跌還是必須要看市場的需求啦所以這個部分我們都有掌握然後也透過了跟一些這個肉品工協會的這樣的一個聯繫希望能夠達到穩定租價也穩定這個供需這樣的一個需求\n我在這邊可能也要建議一下就是說在禁運當中有35到39萬頭豬那有的可能又吃了十幾天那個豬的重量又變大了那當然這些豬農他們會希望趕快把它賣出去所以我希望就是說農業部這邊應該也要找通路商還有可能一些冷凍\n就是可以先把這些比較重的這些豬應該可以先拍賣然後冷凍起來我覺得應該可以透過這樣的機制來處理是 謝謝委員我們有往這個方向再考慮跟處理好 那我希望說不要有這種讓豬農覺得說這個會有崩盤的這種狀況出現所以我希望農業部可能要及時如果有類似這樣的狀況真的要去協調通路商趕快把這個問題解決\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.883 --> 00:07.536\n謝謝主席我們請彭部長還有農業部的次長\n\n00:09.793 --> 00:38.576\n部長跟次長謝謝王委員好部長好部長我想先請教就是說從非洲豬瘟爆發到現在其實大家關心的就是儲雨處理後續怎麼去處理那昨天那個農業部的部長他有對外表示就是說原則就是儲雨原則禁止那有條件的開放有條件的開放那我想請教就是說其實在這個儲雨的前端是\n\n00:39.296 --> 01:01.978\n環境部跟地方的環保局那到這個養豬場這後面就農業部在處理那我想請教就是說如果是有條件的開放那未來就像現在我們這一場發生非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場他也是沒有確實把這個資料上傳那未來是不是\n\n01:02.739 --> 01:30.627\n有什麼樣的方式能夠更有效如果說有養豬場他確實也要用這個廚餘來養豬的話那你們現在應該要去想到怎麼樣去有效的去監控如果這個養豬場如果像現在的話他只是傳照片其實你自己原本也沒辦法去分辨他這個照片到底是什麼時候的照片什麼時候傳你根本都不知道那是不是可以用比較及時\n\n01:31.727 --> 01:49.493\n可能動態及時的這種監控的方式是不是做得到報告委員這個我們已經都有寫在我們的指引而且已經有找到解決方案了那如果說這個農業部規範相關的規定因為那個裡面有第一個法規要修正\n\n01:50.273 --> 02:14.850\n農業部的法規要修正我們都內部協調了第二個我們什麼時候可以完成目前我們都有找到相關的技術的可行性例如說CCTV直接看到有幾個蒸煮廠第二個是溫度的探針到煮潮裡面可以每一個小時每一分鐘都可以看得到它的量是不是煮了60分鐘有沒有90度所以這個部分我們如果可以即時監控的話\n\n02:15.510 --> 02:29.761\n按照這個我們跟農業部的一個共識可能就可以開放珍珠不過這個還是要政策上的最後決定那現在呢我們就在等跟農業部跨部會在協調當中那我也必須透過委員這樣說其實除於珍珠不是\n\n02:31.362 --> 02:53.143\n万恶不赦它是循环经济的一个一环我们必须要肯定我们过去的厨余的处理的成本透过养猪的程序帮我们消化掉如果回到完全不要有厨余的话其实的确会增加很多餐厅还有我们家户的厨余的变成废弃物的一种成本所以我们也必须去考量所以后面的处理我们正在规划当中\n\n02:54.183 --> 03:11.034\n我希望就是說後面如果後續還有這個處於養豬的話我覺得監控這個真的非常重要就是說像這個爆發非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場其實他在4月份過後可能就不正常的這個傳輸你們根本也都不知道\n\n03:11.494 --> 03:26.620\n可能地方的環保局他也沒有確實好去掌握那如果地方政府沒辦法確實掌握那中央政府怎麼去管我是不是可以先請教部長如果地方譬如說這個養豬場由地方的環保局來監控\n\n03:27.700 --> 03:46.150\n那地方環保局如果沒有很確實去監控的話那中央政府這邊怎麼去知道包委員其實現在我們過去的制度是都有照片也知道日期所以那幾家沒有做得好的我們都有數據然後都通知地方環保局他們第一線去監控我們再去複查\n\n03:46.650 --> 04:01.472\n那未來呢像這樣的話就是即時的所以我們環境部農業部跟地方環保局甚至豬農他都完全可以看到那個數據所以未來呢會是一個不是像這樣有時間落差的檢討方式所以就是地方政府看得到地方的環保局看得到然後中央可能你們這邊\n\n04:02.674 --> 04:18.430\n某個單位也都看得到同一個資料平台就可以看到監控這個數據我覺得這樣就可以讓大家心安另外部長我也想請教就是說之前有提到統一的真主中心未來這個政策會去推動嗎\n\n04:19.691 --> 04:48.177\n跟委員報告因為統一珍珠的這個部分那可能要是那個各縣市的它的這個規模那所以目前來說一般200頭以上的大型的這個這個豬場的話它大概都是有自己的珍珠設備那所以我們可能就是透過剛剛彭部長所說的這種即時的CCTV包括溫度監控上傳的這樣的一個資訊還有修訂我們的這個法規相關那變成能夠即時監控然後可以落實的這個狀況之下\n\n04:49.457 --> 05:10.188\n再繼續推動那如果說沒有到這個養豬場的也許還有一些廚餘那你們後續這些要怎麼處理就是說我們可能各縣市有的廚餘他可能透過清潔隊有的就直接到養豬場那有些可能沒有到養豬場那像這樣子的話你們後續會怎麼處理\n\n05:13.730 --> 05:28.117\n直接進到焚化爐嗎沒有其實現在進到焚化爐是不得已的做法因為這個其實除於是有生命其實是有價值的東西應該把它能源化堆肥化或是用黑水盲所以我們的確現在未來這幾年會規劃\n\n05:29.998 --> 05:47.993\n到底量能什麼時候起來就是不要去送焚化爐啦因為送焚化爐其實浪費了浪費了也對於這個原來的垃圾也會造成很大的排擠所以我們現在正在規劃現在正在精密的算但是每個縣市不一樣像這個雲林它雖然說它不用廚餘未租可是雲林的\n\n05:48.633 --> 06:10.839\n这个猪的厨余也是跑到彰化去啊所以就造成很大的负担那未来呢清洁的部分有可能会从过去的养猪场去收厨余未来会产生一些改变那这个改变呢现在我们正在协调当中未来可能会是一种专业的收厨余的团队在收厨余也有可能在做清理这个未来都有可能会发生\n\n06:11.519 --> 06:31.640\n好那那接下來我再請教就是說像這個就是養豬場他也許自己收了這個廚餘那收的廚餘可能吃不完嗎然後就給其他的這個養豬場好那那像類似這樣的狀況或者是這個養豬場我上我這個禮拜也有特別問到就是說有的比較小的這個養豬場\n\n06:33.081 --> 06:58.729\n那可能就是非常小場然後養了幾十隻那他就是收可能這個一般家戶的就是人家直接拿到這個養豬場外面就直接丟著就知道他有在用廚餘餵豬嘛那未來像這樣的狀況到底是可以或者是不可以委員現在是200頭以下都不可以200頭以上所以像委員講的那個情況問題是這個確實是存在的啊\n\n07:00.102 --> 07:20.109\n對所以這個其實是未來是不允許的這個都是有罰則的目前是有罰則的所以其實就是說我們管控其實也不嚴格在200頭以下的這個禁止處於養豬的這個部分事實上我們在這個都有透過這個定期的查訪去做這樣的一個落實\n\n07:22.617 --> 07:37.729\n好那你们说有确实那其实确实地方还是有这样的这种状况存在那最后我想请教这个农业部就是说原本是预计11月7号猪就可以开始拍卖\n\n07:38.690 --> 08:07.710\n11月7號嘛對不對這個事情的話我們的統一步調就是由我們的這個中央非洲豬瘟的防災中心來做應變因為這個包括了很多綜合的判斷那就就這個要由這個我們的中央災害應變中心所以是今天下午才會公佈嗎是是是我全部都要看這個中央災害應變中心那邊的那如果因為有很多這個有一些縣市已經說11月7號有一些縣市已經說11月7號豬隻就可以開始拍賣\n\n08:08.570 --> 08:31.912\n是不是這樣子這個部分的話必須要澄清因為我們這次的這個禁令是透過動傳法的這樣的一個限制那因為這個是屬於甲類的這樣的一個傳染動物傳染性疾病那他會擴及的這個範圍很大那所以基本上才會成立說中央災害應變中心來處理這樣的一個問題所以基本上是不是開放這個部分一定是由中央災害應變中心來做公佈跟宣示\n\n08:33.053 --> 08:55.859\n那我想請教就是說如果就是按照原本的期程就是說11月7號如果啦如果還是按照原本的期程11月7號可以拍賣那原本在這個禁運的這當中有35萬頭至39萬頭的這些豬那一下子我不知道說到底要怎麼去消化或者是整個豬的價格會不會因此而崩盤\n\n08:57.619 --> 09:20.596\n跟委員報告那事實上我們事實上有掌握到就是說在這個這個禁運的這個期間那事實上大概陳副委員所說的會有這樣的一個數量出來那所以我們也啟動了一些相關的這個機制比如說已經超過市場規格的這個豬的話優先進入屠宰場去做這樣的相關去化的這樣的處理那或者是收購那還有我們的這個\n\n09:23.117 --> 09:48.971\n每天能夠屠宰的量從本來平均的一天大概兩萬多頭可能會提高到三萬多頭的這個部分那但是我們也不希望一次能夠太多出來因為這樣子也會造成價格的這個崩跌還是必須要看市場的需求啦所以這個部分我們都有掌握然後也透過了跟一些這個肉品工協會的這樣的一個聯繫希望能夠達到穩定租價也穩定這個供需這樣的一個需求\n\n09:49.991 --> 10:12.201\n我在這邊可能也要建議一下就是說在禁運當中有35到39萬頭豬那有的可能又吃了十幾天那個豬的重量又變大了那當然這些豬農他們會希望趕快把它賣出去所以我希望就是說農業部這邊應該也要找通路商還有可能一些冷凍\n\n10:13.021 --> 10:41.653\n就是可以先把這些比較重的這些豬應該可以先拍賣然後冷凍起來我覺得應該可以透過這樣的機制來處理是謝謝委員我們有往這個方向再考慮跟處理好那我希望說不要有這種讓豬農覺得說這個會有崩盤的這種狀況出現所以我希望農業部可能要及時如果有類似這樣的狀況真的要去協調通路商趕快把這個問題解決\n\n10:42.933 --> 10:42.953\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.883,"end":7.536,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請彭部長還有農業部的次長"},{"start":9.793,"end":38.576,"text":"部長跟次長謝謝王委員好部長好部長我想先請教就是說從非洲豬瘟爆發到現在其實大家關心的就是儲雨處理後續怎麼去處理那昨天那個農業部的部長他有對外表示就是說原則就是儲雨原則禁止那有條件的開放有條件的開放那我想請教就是說其實在這個儲雨的前端是"},{"start":39.296,"end":61.978,"text":"環境部跟地方的環保局那到這個養豬場這後面就農業部在處理那我想請教就是說如果是有條件的開放那未來就像現在我們這一場發生非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場他也是沒有確實把這個資料上傳那未來是不是"},{"start":62.739,"end":90.627,"text":"有什麼樣的方式能夠更有效如果說有養豬場他確實也要用這個廚餘來養豬的話那你們現在應該要去想到怎麼樣去有效的去監控如果這個養豬場如果像現在的話他只是傳照片其實你自己原本也沒辦法去分辨他這個照片到底是什麼時候的照片什麼時候傳你根本都不知道那是不是可以用比較及時"},{"start":91.727,"end":109.493,"text":"可能動態及時的這種監控的方式是不是做得到報告委員 這個我們已經都有寫在我們的指引而且已經有找到解決方案了那如果說這個農業部規範相關的規定因為那個裡面有第一個法規要修正"},{"start":110.273,"end":134.85,"text":"農業部的法規要修正我們都內部協調了第二個我們什麼時候可以完成目前我們都有找到相關的技術的可行性例如說CCTV直接看到有幾個蒸煮廠第二個是溫度的探針到煮潮裡面可以每一個小時每一分鐘都可以看得到它的量是不是煮了60分鐘有沒有90度所以這個部分我們如果可以即時監控的話"},{"start":135.51,"end":149.761,"text":"按照這個我們跟農業部的一個共識可能就可以開放珍珠不過這個還是要政策上的最後決定那現在呢我們就在等跟農業部跨部會在協調當中那我也必須透過委員這樣說其實除於珍珠不是"},{"start":151.362,"end":173.143,"text":"万恶不赦它是循环经济的一个一环我们必须要肯定我们过去的厨余的处理的成本透过养猪的程序帮我们消化掉如果回到完全不要有厨余的话其实的确会增加很多餐厅还有我们家户的厨余的变成废弃物的一种成本所以我们也必须去考量所以后面的处理我们正在规划当中"},{"start":174.183,"end":191.034,"text":"我希望就是說後面如果後續還有這個處於養豬的話我覺得監控這個真的非常重要就是說像這個爆發非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場其實他在4月份過後可能就不正常的這個傳輸你們根本也都不知道"},{"start":191.494,"end":206.62,"text":"可能地方的環保局他也沒有確實好去掌握那如果地方政府沒辦法確實掌握那中央政府怎麼去管我是不是可以先請教部長如果地方譬如說這個養豬場由地方的環保局來監控"},{"start":207.7,"end":226.15,"text":"那地方環保局如果沒有很確實去監控的話那中央政府這邊怎麼去知道包委員其實現在我們過去的制度是都有照片也知道日期所以那幾家沒有做得好的我們都有數據然後都通知地方環保局他們第一線去監控我們再去複查"},{"start":226.65,"end":241.472,"text":"那未來呢像這樣的話就是即時的所以我們環境部農業部跟地方環保局甚至豬農他都完全可以看到那個數據所以未來呢會是一個不是像這樣有時間落差的檢討方式所以就是地方政府看得到地方的環保局看得到然後中央可能你們這邊"},{"start":242.674,"end":258.43,"text":"某個單位也都看得到同一個資料平台就可以看到監控這個數據我覺得這樣就可以讓大家心安另外部長我也想請教就是說之前有提到統一的真主中心未來這個政策會去推動嗎"},{"start":259.691,"end":288.177,"text":"跟委員報告因為統一珍珠的這個部分那可能要是那個各縣市的它的這個規模那所以目前來說一般200頭以上的大型的這個這個豬場的話它大概都是有自己的珍珠設備那所以我們可能就是透過剛剛彭部長所說的這種即時的CCTV包括溫度監控上傳的這樣的一個資訊還有修訂我們的這個法規相關那變成能夠即時監控然後可以落實的這個狀況之下"},{"start":289.457,"end":310.188,"text":"再繼續推動那如果說沒有到這個養豬場的也許還有一些廚餘那你們後續這些要怎麼處理就是說我們可能各縣市有的廚餘他可能透過清潔隊有的就直接到養豬場那有些可能沒有到養豬場那像這樣子的話你們後續會怎麼處理"},{"start":313.73,"end":328.117,"text":"直接進到焚化爐嗎沒有 其實現在進到焚化爐是不得已的做法因為這個其實除於是有生命其實是有價值的東西應該把它能源化堆肥化或是用黑水盲所以我們的確現在未來這幾年會規劃"},{"start":329.998,"end":347.993,"text":"到底量能什麼時候起來就是不要去送焚化爐啦因為送焚化爐其實浪費了浪費了也對於這個原來的垃圾也會造成很大的排擠所以我們現在正在規劃現在正在精密的算但是每個縣市不一樣像這個雲林它雖然說它不用廚餘未租可是雲林的"},{"start":348.633,"end":370.839,"text":"这个猪的厨余也是跑到彰化去啊所以就造成很大的负担那未来呢清洁的部分有可能会从过去的养猪场去收厨余未来会产生一些改变那这个改变呢现在我们正在协调当中未来可能会是一种专业的收厨余的团队在收厨余也有可能在做清理这个未来都有可能会发生"},{"start":371.519,"end":391.64,"text":"好那那接下來我再請教就是說像這個就是養豬場他也許自己收了這個廚餘那收的廚餘可能吃不完嗎然後就給其他的這個養豬場好那那像類似這樣的狀況或者是這個養豬場我上我這個禮拜也有特別問到就是說有的比較小的這個養豬場"},{"start":393.081,"end":418.729,"text":"那可能就是非常小場然後養了幾十隻那他就是收可能這個一般家戶的就是人家直接拿到這個養豬場外面就直接丟著就知道他有在用廚餘餵豬嘛那未來像這樣的狀況到底是可以或者是不可以委員現在是200頭以下都不可以200頭以上所以像委員講的那個情況問題是這個確實是存在的啊"},{"start":420.102,"end":440.109,"text":"對 所以這個其實是未來是不允許的這個都是有罰則的 目前是有罰則的所以其實就是說我們管控其實也不嚴格在200頭以下的這個禁止處於養豬的這個部分事實上我們在這個都有透過這個定期的查訪去做這樣的一個落實"},{"start":442.617,"end":457.729,"text":"好那你们说有确实那其实确实地方还是有这样的这种状况存在那最后我想请教这个农业部就是说原本是预计11月7号猪就可以开始拍卖"},{"start":458.69,"end":487.71,"text":"11月7號嘛對不對這個事情的話我們的統一步調就是由我們的這個中央非洲豬瘟的防災中心來做應變因為這個包括了很多綜合的判斷那就就這個要由這個我們的中央災害應變中心所以是今天下午才會公佈嗎是是是我全部都要看這個中央災害應變中心那邊的那如果因為有很多這個有一些縣市已經說11月7號有一些縣市已經說11月7號豬隻就可以開始拍賣"},{"start":488.57,"end":511.912,"text":"是不是這樣子這個部分的話必須要澄清因為我們這次的這個禁令是透過動傳法的這樣的一個限制那因為這個是屬於甲類的這樣的一個傳染動物傳染性疾病那他會擴及的這個範圍很大那所以基本上才會成立說中央災害應變中心來處理這樣的一個問題所以基本上是不是開放這個部分一定是由中央災害應變中心來做公佈跟宣示"},{"start":513.053,"end":535.859,"text":"那我想請教就是說如果就是按照原本的期程就是說11月7號如果啦如果還是按照原本的期程11月7號可以拍賣那原本在這個禁運的這當中有35萬頭至39萬頭的這些豬那一下子我不知道說到底要怎麼去消化或者是整個豬的價格會不會因此而崩盤"},{"start":537.619,"end":560.596,"text":"跟委員報告那事實上我們事實上有掌握到就是說在這個這個禁運的這個期間那事實上大概陳副委員所說的會有這樣的一個數量出來那所以我們也啟動了一些相關的這個機制比如說已經超過市場規格的這個豬的話優先進入屠宰場去做這樣的相關去化的這樣的處理那或者是收購那還有我們的這個"},{"start":563.117,"end":588.971,"text":"每天能夠屠宰的量從本來平均的一天大概兩萬多頭可能會提高到三萬多頭的這個部分那但是我們也不希望一次能夠太多出來因為這樣子也會造成價格的這個崩跌還是必須要看市場的需求啦所以這個部分我們都有掌握然後也透過了跟一些這個肉品工協會的這樣的一個聯繫希望能夠達到穩定租價也穩定這個供需這樣的一個需求"},{"start":589.991,"end":612.201,"text":"我在這邊可能也要建議一下就是說在禁運當中有35到39萬頭豬那有的可能又吃了十幾天那個豬的重量又變大了那當然這些豬農他們會希望趕快把它賣出去所以我希望就是說農業部這邊應該也要找通路商還有可能一些冷凍"},{"start":613.021,"end":641.653,"text":"就是可以先把這些比較重的這些豬應該可以先拍賣然後冷凍起來我覺得應該可以透過這樣的機制來處理是 謝謝委員我們有往這個方向再考慮跟處理好 那我希望說不要有這種讓豬農覺得說這個會有崩盤的這種狀況出現所以我希望農業部可能要及時如果有類似這樣的狀況真的要去協調通路商趕快把這個問題解決"},{"start":642.933,"end":642.953,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1156,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（12時18分）謝謝主席。請彭部長還有農業部次長。"],["主席：部長跟次長，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，我想先請教，從非洲豬瘟爆發到現在，其實大家關心的就是廚餘後續怎麼去處理，昨天農業部部長有對外表示，廚餘原則禁止，有條件的開放。廚餘的前端是環境部跟地方的環保局，到了養豬場，後面就是農業部在處理，我想請教，如果是有條件的開放，像現在發生非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場，它也是沒有確實把資料上傳，未來是不是有什麼樣的方式能夠更有效監控？如果有養豬場確實要用廚餘養豬的話，你們現在應該要去想到怎麼樣有效監控，如果養豬場像現在只是傳照片，你們也沒辦法分辨這個照片到底是什麼時候的照片、什麼時候傳，你們根本都不知道，是不是可以用比較即時，可能是動態即時這種監控方式？是不是做得到？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個我們已經都有寫在指引，而且已經有找到解決方案了，由農業部規範相關規定，因為第一個，法規要修正，農業部的法規要修正，我們內部都協調了。第二個，我們什麼時候可以完成？目前我們都有找到相關技術的可行性，例如CCTV直接看，到底有幾個蒸煮廠。再來是溫度的探針到煮槽裡面，每一個小時、每一分鐘都可以看得到它的量，是不是煮了60分鐘，有沒有90度，這個部分如果可以即時監控的話，按照我們跟農業部的一個共識，可能就可以開放蒸煮，不過這個還是要政策上的最後決定，現在我們就在等跟農業部跨部會協調當中。","我也必須透過委員這樣說，其實廚餘蒸煮不是萬惡不赦，它是循環經濟的一環，我們必須要肯定過去廚餘處理的成本，透過養豬的程序幫我們消化掉，如果回到完全不要有廚餘的話，其實的確會增加很多餐廳，還有我們家戶的廚餘變成廢棄物的一種成本，這個我們也必須考量，後面的處理，我們正在規劃當中。"],["黃委員秀芳：如果後續還有廚餘養豬的話，我覺得監控真的非常重要。像這次爆發非洲豬瘟的這個養豬場，其實在4月份過後可能就有不正常的傳輸，你們根本都不知道，可能地方的環保局也沒有確實掌握，如果地方政府沒辦法確實掌握，那中央政府怎麼去管？我是不是可以先請教部長，譬如這個養豬場由地方的環保局監控，地方環保局如果沒有很確實去監控的話，中央政府這邊怎麼知道？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們過去的制度是都有照片，也知道日期，所以那幾家沒有做得好的我們都有數據，然後都通知地方環保局，他們第一線去監控，我們再去複查。未來可能都是即時的，所以環境部、農業部跟地方環保局，甚至豬農，都完全可以看到那個數據，所以未來就不是像這樣有時間落差的狀況。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以地方政府看得到、地方的環保局看得到，然後中央這邊某個單位也都看得到？"],["彭部長啓明：同一個資料平臺都可以看到、監控這個數據。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。"],["彭部長啓明：我覺得這樣就可以讓大家心安。"],["黃委員秀芳：另外，部長，我也想請教，之前有提到統一的蒸煮中心，未來這個政策會去推動嗎？"],["黃次長昭欽：跟委員報告，因為統一蒸煮這個部分可能要視各縣市的規模，目前來說，一般200頭以上的大型豬場大概都有自己的蒸煮設備，所以我們可能就是透過剛剛彭部長所說的即時CCTV，包括溫度監控上傳的資訊，還有修訂相關法規，變成能夠即時監控，在可以落實的狀況之下，才來繼續推動。"],["黃委員秀芳：沒有到養豬場的也許還有一些廚餘，後續這些要怎麼處理？就是各縣市有的廚餘可能透過清潔隊就直接到養豬場，但有些可能沒有到養豬場，像這樣子的話，你們後續會怎麼處理？是直接進到焚化爐嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，沒有，其實現在進到焚化爐是不得已的作法，因為廚餘是有價值的東西，應該能源化、堆肥化，或是用黑水虻，所以未來這幾年我們會規劃，到底量能什麼時候起來，就是不要送焚化爐啦！因為送焚化爐其實是浪費了，也對於原來的垃圾造成很大的排擠。所以我們現在正在規劃、正在精密的算，但是每個縣市不一樣，像雲林雖然不用廚餘餵豬，可是雲林的廚餘也是跑到彰化去啊！所以就造成很大的負擔。未來清潔的部分，有可能會從過去的養豬場去收廚餘，未來會產生一些改變，這個改變現在我們正在協調當中，未來可能會是一種專業收廚餘團隊在收廚餘，也有可能再做清理，這個未來都有可能會發生。"],["黃委員秀芳：接下來我再請教，養豬場自己收了廚餘，但收了廚餘可能吃不完，然後就給其他的養豬場，類似這樣的狀況，另外我這個禮拜也有特別問到，有的規模比較小的養豬場，可能就是非常小場，只養了幾十隻，它可能就是收一般家戶的廚餘，也就是人家直接拿到養豬場外面丟著，因為知道有在用廚餘餵豬，未來像這樣的狀況到底是可以或者是不可以？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，現在是200頭以下都不可以，要200頭以上，所以像委員講的那個情況……"],["黃委員秀芳：問題是這個確實是存在的啊！"],["彭部長啓明：對，這個在未來是不允許的，這個都是有罰則的，目前就有罰則。"],["黃委員秀芳：其實我們的管控也不嚴格啦！"],["黃次長昭欽：200頭以下禁止廚餘養豬的這部分，事實上我們都有透過定期查訪去落實。"],["黃委員秀芳：你們說有確實，但其實地方確實還是有這種狀況存在。","最後我想請教農業部，原本是預計11月7號就可以開始拍賣豬，11月7號嘛，對不對？"],["黃次長昭欽：這個事情的話，我們的統一步調就是由中央非洲豬瘟防災中心來做應變，因為這個包括很多綜合的判斷，所以要由中央災害應變中心……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以是今天下午才會公布嗎？"],["黃次長昭欽：是，這全部都要看中央災害應變中心那邊的……"],["黃委員秀芳：好！因為有一些縣市已經說11月7號豬隻就可以開始拍賣，是不是這樣子？"],["黃次長昭欽：這個部分必須要澄清，因為我們這次的禁令是透過動傳法的限制，而這是屬於甲類動物傳染性疾病，它會擴及的範圍很大，所以才會成立中央災害應變中心來處理這樣一個問題，是不是開放這個部分一定是由中央災害應變中心公布跟宣示。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。我想請教，如果按照原本的期程是11月7號可以拍賣，而原本在禁運當中有35萬頭至39萬頭豬，我不知道一下子到底要怎麼消化？或者是整個豬的價格會不會因此而崩盤？"],["黃次長昭欽：跟委員報告，事實上我們有掌握到，在禁運期間大概誠如委員所說的會有這樣一個數量出來，所以我們也啟動了一些相關機制，比如說已經超過市場規格的豬優先進入屠宰場做相關去化的處理，或者是收購，還有我們每天能夠屠宰的量，從本來平均一天大概兩萬多頭可能會提高到三萬多頭。但是我們也不希望一次太多出來，因為這樣子也會造成價格的崩跌，還是必須要看市場的需求。所以這個部分我們都有掌握，然後也透過跟一些肉品公協會的聯繫，希望能夠達到穩定豬價，也穩定供需這樣的需求。"],["黃委員秀芳：我在這邊可能也要建議一下，在禁運當中有35萬到39萬頭豬，有的可能又吃了十幾天，豬的重量又變大了，當然這些豬農會希望趕快把牠賣出去，所以我希望農業部這邊應該也要找通路商，可能還有一些冷凍業者，就是可以先把比較重的豬拍賣，然後冷凍起來，我覺得應該可以透過這樣的機制來處理。"],["黃次長昭欽：是，謝謝委員，我們有往這個方向在考慮跟處理。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我希望不要有讓豬農覺得會崩盤的狀況出現，所以我希望農業部可能要及時，如果有類似這樣的狀況，真的要去協調通路商，趕快把這個問題解決，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃秀芳委員發言。","請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}