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\"部長您覺得就是說在之前啦過去你還沒有擔任部長之前曾經有多次出席在國際上的這些重要的這個環境議題的會議那代表國家發聲在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹跟還有帥氣的照片謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 359.454, \"end\": 359.774, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 359.774, \"end\": 360.254, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 360.254, \"end\": 360.454, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 360.454, \"end\": 360.614, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 360.614, \"end\": 360.894, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 360.894, \"end\": 363.335, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 363.335, \"end\": 363.495, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 363.495, \"end\": 363.695, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 363.695, \"end\": 364.035, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 364.035, \"end\": 364.155, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 364.155, \"end\": 364.275, \"score\": 0.968}, 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\"score\": 0.023}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,625 --> 00:00:27,163\n謝主席麻煩請環境部部長跟環關署署長請部長跟署長陳委員好部長好那今天召委安排這個從非法棄置到城市採礦的這個專題報告我也參考了你們的書面報告因為我發現在這個短短八頁\n\n2\n00:00:28,154 --> 00:00:50,240\n不到裡面大概大概非法氣質的部分佔了九成那你們對於這個城市採礦的部分大概只有佔了10%而已那我不太清楚說這個是不是朝偉的本意啦就說在這個比例上你們怎麼去決定這樣子的\n\n3\n00:00:53,509 --> 00:01:14,094\n兩個其實是在討論兩件事有價值的回收資源那跟沒有價值的廢棄物被非法棄置的問題鵝鮑偉我解釋一下因為我這邊有用一個其實我們非法棄置最大的就是營建剩餘土石方那營建剩餘土石方如果更好的循環它就是也是一種城市採礦\n\n4\n00:01:15,174 --> 00:01:33,021\n所以其實我們這個裡面花很多時間其實有一張圖是特別講說他怎麼去循環到土資場等等如果我們建構的起來就是城市採礦起來的話就沒有營建廢棄物的問題因為我們上網也是都可以看到這個書面報告啦所以只是提醒一下這個比例上我們會誤以為\n\n5\n00:01:35,662 --> 00:01:55,612\n是不是召委给你们的指示是这样那我要先请教部长就是说你是否知道在2020年的这个东京奥运的这个奖牌是由这个回收的手机制作的这是象征这个城市矿山的理念吗算是吧这也是一种这个循环在利用\n\n6\n00:01:56,257 --> 00:02:22,097\n好那針對這個有價台灣手機或者3C產品台灣回收的這個業者你覺得他們再生利用的技術好不好那回收之後最終產物是什麼最終產物的話手機回收就有不一樣的金屬來源例如說像有的是手機回收可以製作屋出來提煉出屋出來不一樣的不一樣的內容好那\n\n7\n00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:41,143\n就說舉例啦齁那個日本的回收技術其實應該是目前看起來是優於台灣嘛那還是說那回收過程有沒有產生這個污染或公安的問題不管是日本或者是台灣\n\n8\n00:02:42,359 --> 00:02:59,546\n我看過就是說我看過一些歐洲的一些垃圾或資源回收處理廠有爆炸的事情燃燒的事情我問他是什麼手機手機裡面的鋰電池所以的確是有一些可能衍生的公安問題會出現如果處理不好的話\n\n9\n00:03:00,883 --> 00:03:20,904\n我想部長有這樣提到表示你們基本上對於這些問題都有一些基本的掌握那上次對於這個光電板的回收那本席也曾經提過說如果國外有更先進的技術想要進來台灣投資往往是很困難因為他們要先取得廢棄物處理廠的資格\n\n10\n00:03:24,107 --> 00:03:48,643\n而这个废弃物处理的是没有价值或者是低价值的一般废弃物那这等于是说去限制了这个先进技术可以直接高端回收的高价值资源的这个途径是很可惜那我觉得说你们在的确是有很多的很多去国外考察先进资源回收的\n\n11\n00:03:54,147 --> 00:04:20,945\n在出国回来你们去看了回来就要整理好报告然后又赶快有动作然后再赶快把它转化成有用的计划或者是政策不应该只是说去看一看回来消息很消极就没有其他作为这样子会拘泥说你们可能会变成永远都是在这个法规范围内去做管理的事情\n\n12\n00:04:22,106 --> 00:04:47,139\n因為不是只有管理就好那如果是這樣這樣可能就是很辜負了你們升格為環境部的這個意義了那部長你們在升格之後在資源循環跟環境管理方面的法令大概就是你們修訂了幾條還是說只是有都是繼續沿用環保署時代的訂定的法規\n\n13\n00:04:47,911 --> 00:04:58,528\n報告委我們如果兩個署的話就是資源循環的推動法然後另外一個就是廢刑法這兩個就是我們這兩年來送進來準備要送進來的法令\n\n14\n00:05:00,481 --> 00:05:29,580\n所以好那未來在這個高階3C的產品的資源回收跟這個城市採礦的理念上會不會有這個修法或者是研擬新法令的計畫呢目前我們是在這個資源循環推動法裡面有一些設計綠色設計或是說整個獎勵補助的一個或是說資源循環的這個路徑上面能夠再加強的地方是在資源循環的推動法裡面的確是有\n\n15\n00:05:30,708 --> 00:05:58,517\n好那毕竟好就是在这个现有的法令架构之下其实赵伟都觉得说你们这个非法气质跟这个环境管理的执法上都已经有出现这个痛点的问题这表示说相关的法令可能有不足的地方所以资源循环应该是可以再更有效率一点最重要的是说我们也还是要跟国际接轨那\n\n16\n00:05:59,454 --> 00:06:20,240\n部長您覺得就是說在之前啦過去你還沒有擔任部長之前曾經有多次出席在國際上的這些重要的這個環境議題的會議那代表國家發聲在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹跟還有帥氣的照片謝謝\n\n17\n00:06:21,721 --> 00:06:45,671\n在我相信就是說台灣呢其實就需要像您這樣有具有國際觀的部會首長來帶領我們台灣在各種議題上能夠就是說在我們國際這個大舞台發光發熱那您現在當部長了我相信也可以讓所有就是說所屬的高階文官可以有一起進步的格局\n\n18\n00:06:46,511 --> 00:07:13,216\n那支持讓支持他們出國多去看利用這個開放新技術跟新資源的觀念來解決我們台灣面臨的這些環境的問題我想我不曉得部長是不是有同意本席的建議在提升我們資源循環跟環境管理的議題上盡量可以接軌國際然後採取這個逐步開放的這個有效的這個政策規劃\n\n19\n00:07:14,256 --> 00:07:40,011\n我非常同意也報告委員我在民間的時候是一個月出國一兩次現在一年頂多只能一次所以很可憐所以我是鼓勵我們同仁這個能夠多出去多接軌所以像剛剛委員提到說是不是有一些國外的這種好的公司到臺灣我們幫他排擠出這種環保的法規因為我們有些是蠻硬的蠻死的所以我們未來也可以考慮說國外好的公司進來臺灣的時候我們有一個專業的一個\n\n20\n00:07:41,112 --> 00:08:10,002\n如果他是環保好的公司我們應該開放讓他進來產生這種碾漁的效益我們現在現行一些設計的這些規範可能就要做一些調整了不然就真的很可惜那最後本席想要強調就是說資源循環做得好環境管理負擔少那其實那個意思也就是賴盈盈做得好延續敏負擔就少那我現在我就很想請教我想請教我們的\n\n21\n00:08:11,860 --> 00:08:22,761\n我們的嚴署長你覺得你現在負擔多還是少呢報告委員我覺得我現在負擔剛剛好\n\n22\n00:08:28,828 --> 00:08:48,782\n這我相信你負擔還是很大的啦但是賴營署長還是做得不錯的啦至少起碼那個賴署長也很認真而且他也蠻就是蠻靈活的在福祉產業上其實剛剛我講了幾個點其實都有朝這個方向在\n\n23\n00:08:49,662 --> 00:09:01,687\n在邁進那我們知道你很辛苦因為一站上來我剛差一點看不到你的臉雖然你站在燈光下真的你去災區真的待很久然後曬得很黑也辛苦你了那這個\n\n24\n00:09:06,065 --> 00:09:24,813\n兩位賴署長可以請回座管理是一項成本資源強調的是一種價值所以任何的廢棄物都可以視為資源關鍵是說我們在於轉化的成本高低的問題廢手機\n\n25\n00:09:27,054 --> 00:09:44,208\n既然可以作为这个奥运奖牌很多的资源也可以转为这个扶植地方产业的这个经济支柱那我想在这个过程当中我有看到赖署长有在朝这个方向来努力我觉得那个是很棒的\n\n26\n00:09:44,810 --> 00:10:11,920\n那我想我们我之前我有提过就是说以台东县为例本身就有这个奖励投资相关产业的法规那在这个环境资源回收提供的技术跟物资的支持下如果协助台东的渔船或者这个观光休闲娱乐船以免费或补助的这个家装使用回收光电板让这些船\n\n27\n00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:27,177\n可以獲得更多的電力資源然後轉化這個動力減少燒油產生的廢氣我相信有許多漁民跟在地的民眾也會感謝環境部的這個德政你們可以參考看看\n\n28\n00:10:27,857 --> 00:10:56,277\n委員這個概念非常好我們會來研議一下就是如何用回收的然後幫助漁民那也跟委員報告因為我們最近有算出來一個台灣的循環經濟的產值是1688億去年然後大概有10萬的就業人口那我們也發現說其實這個很適合例如說像台東可以發展起來所以這個部分如果未來循環經濟我是覺得循環經濟跟觀光一樣是一個蠻好的一個產業我們可以一起努力來推動\n\n29\n00:10:57,412 --> 00:11:06,632\n但我想一個大前提就是說台東畢竟它還是一個觀光大縣那我們能夠賣的\n\n30\n00:11:08,044 --> 00:11:31,877\n是我們的自然景觀那這個大原則就是我們不要在我們在做一些就是說不管是資源的回收的再利用或者是一些能源上的開發我們都不應該去破壞那個自然景觀\n\n31\n00:11:32,557 --> 00:11:47,863\n我想這個是一個很重要的大前提那所以我相信只要部長支持那整個資源循環的產業可以主動扶持很多地方的這個產業的發展那這些需要你們了解回收技術跟回收產品的應用\n\n32\n00:11:48,843 --> 00:12:03,577\n那針對可以幫助地方產業的這個回收業者也期待你們可以給予更多的支持跟鼓勵我想這樣的呼籲環境部你們是不是能夠思考並且提出一個具體的規劃好沒問題好謝謝兩位謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5625\t27163\t謝主席麻煩請環境部部長跟環關署署長請部長跟署長陳委員好部長好那今天召委安排這個從非法棄置到城市採礦的這個專題報告我也參考了你們的書面報告因為我發現在這個短短八頁\n28154\t50240\t不到裡面大概大概非法氣質的部分佔了九成那你們對於這個城市採礦的部分大概只有佔了10%而已那我不太清楚說這個是不是朝偉的本意啦就說在這個比例上你們怎麼去決定這樣子的\n53509\t74094\t兩個其實是在討論兩件事有價值的回收資源那跟沒有價值的廢棄物被非法棄置的問題鵝鮑偉我解釋一下因為我這邊有用一個其實我們非法棄置最大的就是營建剩餘土石方那營建剩餘土石方如果更好的循環它就是也是一種城市採礦\n75174\t93021\t所以其實我們這個裡面花很多時間其實有一張圖是特別講說他怎麼去循環到土資場等等如果我們建構的起來就是城市採礦起來的話就沒有營建廢棄物的問題因為我們上網也是都可以看到這個書面報告啦所以只是提醒一下這個比例上我們會誤以為\n95662\t115612\t是不是召委给你们的指示是这样那我要先请教部长就是说你是否知道在2020年的这个东京奥运的这个奖牌是由这个回收的手机制作的这是象征这个城市矿山的理念吗算是吧这也是一种这个循环在利用\n116257\t142097\t好那針對這個有價台灣手機或者3C產品台灣回收的這個業者你覺得他們再生利用的技術好不好那回收之後最終產物是什麼最終產物的話手機回收就有不一樣的金屬來源例如說像有的是手機回收可以製作屋出來提煉出屋出來不一樣的不一樣的內容好那\n142970\t161143\t就說舉例啦齁那個日本的回收技術其實應該是目前看起來是優於台灣嘛那還是說那回收過程有沒有產生這個污染或公安的問題不管是日本或者是台灣\n162359\t179546\t我看過就是說我看過一些歐洲的一些垃圾或資源回收處理廠有爆炸的事情燃燒的事情我問他是什麼手機手機裡面的鋰電池所以的確是有一些可能衍生的公安問題會出現如果處理不好的話\n180883\t200904\t我想部長有這樣提到表示你們基本上對於這些問題都有一些基本的掌握那上次對於這個光電板的回收那本席也曾經提過說如果國外有更先進的技術想要進來台灣投資往往是很困難因為他們要先取得廢棄物處理廠的資格\n204107\t228643\t而这个废弃物处理的是没有价值或者是低价值的一般废弃物那这等于是说去限制了这个先进技术可以直接高端回收的高价值资源的这个途径是很可惜那我觉得说你们在的确是有很多的很多去国外考察先进资源回收的\n234147\t260945\t在出国回来你们去看了回来就要整理好报告然后又赶快有动作然后再赶快把它转化成有用的计划或者是政策不应该只是说去看一看回来消息很消极就没有其他作为这样子会拘泥说你们可能会变成永远都是在这个法规范围内去做管理的事情\n262106\t287139\t因為不是只有管理就好那如果是這樣這樣可能就是很辜負了你們升格為環境部的這個意義了那部長你們在升格之後在資源循環跟環境管理方面的法令大概就是你們修訂了幾條還是說只是有都是繼續沿用環保署時代的訂定的法規\n287911\t298528\t報告委我們如果兩個署的話就是資源循環的推動法然後另外一個就是廢刑法這兩個就是我們這兩年來送進來準備要送進來的法令\n300481\t329580\t所以好那未來在這個高階3C的產品的資源回收跟這個城市採礦的理念上會不會有這個修法或者是研擬新法令的計畫呢目前我們是在這個資源循環推動法裡面有一些設計綠色設計或是說整個獎勵補助的一個或是說資源循環的這個路徑上面能夠再加強的地方是在資源循環的推動法裡面的確是有\n330708\t358517\t好那毕竟好就是在这个现有的法令架构之下其实赵伟都觉得说你们这个非法气质跟这个环境管理的执法上都已经有出现这个痛点的问题这表示说相关的法令可能有不足的地方所以资源循环应该是可以再更有效率一点最重要的是说我们也还是要跟国际接轨那\n359454\t380240\t部長您覺得就是說在之前啦過去你還沒有擔任部長之前曾經有多次出席在國際上的這些重要的這個環境議題的會議那代表國家發聲在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹跟還有帥氣的照片謝謝\n381721\t405671\t在我相信就是說台灣呢其實就需要像您這樣有具有國際觀的部會首長來帶領我們台灣在各種議題上能夠就是說在我們國際這個大舞台發光發熱那您現在當部長了我相信也可以讓所有就是說所屬的高階文官可以有一起進步的格局\n406511\t433216\t那支持讓支持他們出國多去看利用這個開放新技術跟新資源的觀念來解決我們台灣面臨的這些環境的問題我想我不曉得部長是不是有同意本席的建議在提升我們資源循環跟環境管理的議題上盡量可以接軌國際然後採取這個逐步開放的這個有效的這個政策規劃\n434256\t460011\t我非常同意也報告委員我在民間的時候是一個月出國一兩次現在一年頂多只能一次所以很可憐所以我是鼓勵我們同仁這個能夠多出去多接軌所以像剛剛委員提到說是不是有一些國外的這種好的公司到臺灣我們幫他排擠出這種環保的法規因為我們有些是蠻硬的蠻死的所以我們未來也可以考慮說國外好的公司進來臺灣的時候我們有一個專業的一個\n461112\t490002\t如果他是環保好的公司我們應該開放讓他進來產生這種碾漁的效益我們現在現行一些設計的這些規範可能就要做一些調整了不然就真的很可惜那最後本席想要強調就是說資源循環做得好環境管理負擔少那其實那個意思也就是賴盈盈做得好延續敏負擔就少那我現在我就很想請教我想請教我們的\n491860\t502761\t我們的嚴署長你覺得你現在負擔多還是少呢報告委員我覺得我現在負擔剛剛好\n508828\t528782\t這我相信你負擔還是很大的啦但是賴營署長還是做得不錯的啦至少起碼那個賴署長也很認真而且他也蠻就是蠻靈活的在福祉產業上其實剛剛我講了幾個點其實都有朝這個方向在\n529662\t541687\t在邁進那我們知道你很辛苦因為一站上來我剛差一點看不到你的臉雖然你站在燈光下真的你去災區真的待很久然後曬得很黑也辛苦你了那這個\n546065\t564813\t兩位賴署長可以請回座管理是一項成本資源強調的是一種價值所以任何的廢棄物都可以視為資源關鍵是說我們在於轉化的成本高低的問題廢手機\n567054\t584208\t既然可以作为这个奥运奖牌很多的资源也可以转为这个扶植地方产业的这个经济支柱那我想在这个过程当中我有看到赖署长有在朝这个方向来努力我觉得那个是很棒的\n584810\t611920\t那我想我们我之前我有提过就是说以台东县为例本身就有这个奖励投资相关产业的法规那在这个环境资源回收提供的技术跟物资的支持下如果协助台东的渔船或者这个观光休闲娱乐船以免费或补助的这个家装使用回收光电板让这些船\n612620\t627177\t可以獲得更多的電力資源然後轉化這個動力減少燒油產生的廢氣我相信有許多漁民跟在地的民眾也會感謝環境部的這個德政你們可以參考看看\n627857\t656277\t委員 這個概念非常好我們會來研議一下就是如何用回收的然後幫助漁民那也跟委員報告因為我們最近有算出來一個台灣的循環經濟的產值是1688億去年然後大概有10萬的就業人口那我們也發現說其實這個很適合例如說像台東可以發展起來所以這個部分如果未來循環經濟我是覺得循環經濟跟觀光一樣是一個蠻好的一個產業我們可以一起努力來推動\n657412\t666632\t但我想一個大前提就是說台東畢竟它還是一個觀光大縣那我們能夠賣的\n668044\t691877\t是我們的自然景觀那這個大原則就是我們不要在我們在做一些就是說不管是資源的回收的再利用或者是一些能源上的開發我們都不應該去破壞那個自然景觀\n692557\t707863\t我想這個是一個很重要的大前提那所以我相信只要部長支持那整個資源循環的產業可以主動扶持很多地方的這個產業的發展那這些需要你們了解回收技術跟回收產品的應用\n708843\t723577\t那針對可以幫助地方產業的這個回收業者也期待你們可以給予更多的支持跟鼓勵我想這樣的呼籲環境部你們是不是能夠思考並且提出一個具體的規劃好沒問題好謝謝兩位謝謝\n","txt":"謝主席麻煩請環境部部長跟環關署署長請部長跟署長陳委員好部長好那今天召委安排這個從非法棄置到城市採礦的這個專題報告我也參考了你們的書面報告因為我發現在這個短短八頁\n不到裡面大概大概非法氣質的部分佔了九成那你們對於這個城市採礦的部分大概只有佔了10%而已那我不太清楚說這個是不是朝偉的本意啦就說在這個比例上你們怎麼去決定這樣子的\n兩個其實是在討論兩件事有價值的回收資源那跟沒有價值的廢棄物被非法棄置的問題鵝鮑偉我解釋一下因為我這邊有用一個其實我們非法棄置最大的就是營建剩餘土石方那營建剩餘土石方如果更好的循環它就是也是一種城市採礦\n所以其實我們這個裡面花很多時間其實有一張圖是特別講說他怎麼去循環到土資場等等如果我們建構的起來就是城市採礦起來的話就沒有營建廢棄物的問題因為我們上網也是都可以看到這個書面報告啦所以只是提醒一下這個比例上我們會誤以為\n是不是召委给你们的指示是这样那我要先请教部长就是说你是否知道在2020年的这个东京奥运的这个奖牌是由这个回收的手机制作的这是象征这个城市矿山的理念吗算是吧这也是一种这个循环在利用\n好那針對這個有價台灣手機或者3C產品台灣回收的這個業者你覺得他們再生利用的技術好不好那回收之後最終產物是什麼最終產物的話手機回收就有不一樣的金屬來源例如說像有的是手機回收可以製作屋出來提煉出屋出來不一樣的不一樣的內容好那\n就說舉例啦齁那個日本的回收技術其實應該是目前看起來是優於台灣嘛那還是說那回收過程有沒有產生這個污染或公安的問題不管是日本或者是台灣\n我看過就是說我看過一些歐洲的一些垃圾或資源回收處理廠有爆炸的事情燃燒的事情我問他是什麼手機手機裡面的鋰電池所以的確是有一些可能衍生的公安問題會出現如果處理不好的話\n我想部長有這樣提到表示你們基本上對於這些問題都有一些基本的掌握那上次對於這個光電板的回收那本席也曾經提過說如果國外有更先進的技術想要進來台灣投資往往是很困難因為他們要先取得廢棄物處理廠的資格\n而这个废弃物处理的是没有价值或者是低价值的一般废弃物那这等于是说去限制了这个先进技术可以直接高端回收的高价值资源的这个途径是很可惜那我觉得说你们在的确是有很多的很多去国外考察先进资源回收的\n在出国回来你们去看了回来就要整理好报告然后又赶快有动作然后再赶快把它转化成有用的计划或者是政策不应该只是说去看一看回来消息很消极就没有其他作为这样子会拘泥说你们可能会变成永远都是在这个法规范围内去做管理的事情\n因為不是只有管理就好那如果是這樣這樣可能就是很辜負了你們升格為環境部的這個意義了那部長你們在升格之後在資源循環跟環境管理方面的法令大概就是你們修訂了幾條還是說只是有都是繼續沿用環保署時代的訂定的法規\n報告委我們如果兩個署的話就是資源循環的推動法然後另外一個就是廢刑法這兩個就是我們這兩年來送進來準備要送進來的法令\n所以好那未來在這個高階3C的產品的資源回收跟這個城市採礦的理念上會不會有這個修法或者是研擬新法令的計畫呢目前我們是在這個資源循環推動法裡面有一些設計綠色設計或是說整個獎勵補助的一個或是說資源循環的這個路徑上面能夠再加強的地方是在資源循環的推動法裡面的確是有\n好那毕竟好就是在这个现有的法令架构之下其实赵伟都觉得说你们这个非法气质跟这个环境管理的执法上都已经有出现这个痛点的问题这表示说相关的法令可能有不足的地方所以资源循环应该是可以再更有效率一点最重要的是说我们也还是要跟国际接轨那\n部長您覺得就是說在之前啦過去你還沒有擔任部長之前曾經有多次出席在國際上的這些重要的這個環境議題的會議那代表國家發聲在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹跟還有帥氣的照片謝謝\n在我相信就是說台灣呢其實就需要像您這樣有具有國際觀的部會首長來帶領我們台灣在各種議題上能夠就是說在我們國際這個大舞台發光發熱那您現在當部長了我相信也可以讓所有就是說所屬的高階文官可以有一起進步的格局\n那支持讓支持他們出國多去看利用這個開放新技術跟新資源的觀念來解決我們台灣面臨的這些環境的問題我想我不曉得部長是不是有同意本席的建議在提升我們資源循環跟環境管理的議題上盡量可以接軌國際然後採取這個逐步開放的這個有效的這個政策規劃\n我非常同意也報告委員我在民間的時候是一個月出國一兩次現在一年頂多只能一次所以很可憐所以我是鼓勵我們同仁這個能夠多出去多接軌所以像剛剛委員提到說是不是有一些國外的這種好的公司到臺灣我們幫他排擠出這種環保的法規因為我們有些是蠻硬的蠻死的所以我們未來也可以考慮說國外好的公司進來臺灣的時候我們有一個專業的一個\n如果他是環保好的公司我們應該開放讓他進來產生這種碾漁的效益我們現在現行一些設計的這些規範可能就要做一些調整了不然就真的很可惜那最後本席想要強調就是說資源循環做得好環境管理負擔少那其實那個意思也就是賴盈盈做得好延續敏負擔就少那我現在我就很想請教我想請教我們的\n我們的嚴署長你覺得你現在負擔多還是少呢報告委員我覺得我現在負擔剛剛好\n這我相信你負擔還是很大的啦但是賴營署長還是做得不錯的啦至少起碼那個賴署長也很認真而且他也蠻就是蠻靈活的在福祉產業上其實剛剛我講了幾個點其實都有朝這個方向在\n在邁進那我們知道你很辛苦因為一站上來我剛差一點看不到你的臉雖然你站在燈光下真的你去災區真的待很久然後曬得很黑也辛苦你了那這個\n兩位賴署長可以請回座管理是一項成本資源強調的是一種價值所以任何的廢棄物都可以視為資源關鍵是說我們在於轉化的成本高低的問題廢手機\n既然可以作为这个奥运奖牌很多的资源也可以转为这个扶植地方产业的这个经济支柱那我想在这个过程当中我有看到赖署长有在朝这个方向来努力我觉得那个是很棒的\n那我想我们我之前我有提过就是说以台东县为例本身就有这个奖励投资相关产业的法规那在这个环境资源回收提供的技术跟物资的支持下如果协助台东的渔船或者这个观光休闲娱乐船以免费或补助的这个家装使用回收光电板让这些船\n可以獲得更多的電力資源然後轉化這個動力減少燒油產生的廢氣我相信有許多漁民跟在地的民眾也會感謝環境部的這個德政你們可以參考看看\n委員 這個概念非常好我們會來研議一下就是如何用回收的然後幫助漁民那也跟委員報告因為我們最近有算出來一個台灣的循環經濟的產值是1688億去年然後大概有10萬的就業人口那我們也發現說其實這個很適合例如說像台東可以發展起來所以這個部分如果未來循環經濟我是覺得循環經濟跟觀光一樣是一個蠻好的一個產業我們可以一起努力來推動\n但我想一個大前提就是說台東畢竟它還是一個觀光大縣那我們能夠賣的\n是我們的自然景觀那這個大原則就是我們不要在我們在做一些就是說不管是資源的回收的再利用或者是一些能源上的開發我們都不應該去破壞那個自然景觀\n我想這個是一個很重要的大前提那所以我相信只要部長支持那整個資源循環的產業可以主動扶持很多地方的這個產業的發展那這些需要你們了解回收技術跟回收產品的應用\n那針對可以幫助地方產業的這個回收業者也期待你們可以給予更多的支持跟鼓勵我想這樣的呼籲環境部你們是不是能夠思考並且提出一個具體的規劃好沒問題好謝謝兩位謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.625 --> 00:27.163\n謝主席麻煩請環境部部長跟環關署署長請部長跟署長陳委員好部長好那今天召委安排這個從非法棄置到城市採礦的這個專題報告我也參考了你們的書面報告因為我發現在這個短短八頁\n\n00:28.154 --> 00:50.240\n不到裡面大概大概非法氣質的部分佔了九成那你們對於這個城市採礦的部分大概只有佔了10%而已那我不太清楚說這個是不是朝偉的本意啦就說在這個比例上你們怎麼去決定這樣子的\n\n00:53.509 --> 01:14.094\n兩個其實是在討論兩件事有價值的回收資源那跟沒有價值的廢棄物被非法棄置的問題鵝鮑偉我解釋一下因為我這邊有用一個其實我們非法棄置最大的就是營建剩餘土石方那營建剩餘土石方如果更好的循環它就是也是一種城市採礦\n\n01:15.174 --> 01:33.021\n所以其實我們這個裡面花很多時間其實有一張圖是特別講說他怎麼去循環到土資場等等如果我們建構的起來就是城市採礦起來的話就沒有營建廢棄物的問題因為我們上網也是都可以看到這個書面報告啦所以只是提醒一下這個比例上我們會誤以為\n\n01:35.662 --> 01:55.612\n是不是召委给你们的指示是这样那我要先请教部长就是说你是否知道在2020年的这个东京奥运的这个奖牌是由这个回收的手机制作的这是象征这个城市矿山的理念吗算是吧这也是一种这个循环在利用\n\n01:56.257 --> 02:22.097\n好那針對這個有價台灣手機或者3C產品台灣回收的這個業者你覺得他們再生利用的技術好不好那回收之後最終產物是什麼最終產物的話手機回收就有不一樣的金屬來源例如說像有的是手機回收可以製作屋出來提煉出屋出來不一樣的不一樣的內容好那\n\n02:22.970 --> 02:41.143\n就說舉例啦齁那個日本的回收技術其實應該是目前看起來是優於台灣嘛那還是說那回收過程有沒有產生這個污染或公安的問題不管是日本或者是台灣\n\n02:42.359 --> 02:59.546\n我看過就是說我看過一些歐洲的一些垃圾或資源回收處理廠有爆炸的事情燃燒的事情我問他是什麼手機手機裡面的鋰電池所以的確是有一些可能衍生的公安問題會出現如果處理不好的話\n\n03:00.883 --> 03:20.904\n我想部長有這樣提到表示你們基本上對於這些問題都有一些基本的掌握那上次對於這個光電板的回收那本席也曾經提過說如果國外有更先進的技術想要進來台灣投資往往是很困難因為他們要先取得廢棄物處理廠的資格\n\n03:24.107 --> 03:48.643\n而这个废弃物处理的是没有价值或者是低价值的一般废弃物那这等于是说去限制了这个先进技术可以直接高端回收的高价值资源的这个途径是很可惜那我觉得说你们在的确是有很多的很多去国外考察先进资源回收的\n\n03:54.147 --> 04:20.945\n在出国回来你们去看了回来就要整理好报告然后又赶快有动作然后再赶快把它转化成有用的计划或者是政策不应该只是说去看一看回来消息很消极就没有其他作为这样子会拘泥说你们可能会变成永远都是在这个法规范围内去做管理的事情\n\n04:22.106 --> 04:47.139\n因為不是只有管理就好那如果是這樣這樣可能就是很辜負了你們升格為環境部的這個意義了那部長你們在升格之後在資源循環跟環境管理方面的法令大概就是你們修訂了幾條還是說只是有都是繼續沿用環保署時代的訂定的法規\n\n04:47.911 --> 04:58.528\n報告委我們如果兩個署的話就是資源循環的推動法然後另外一個就是廢刑法這兩個就是我們這兩年來送進來準備要送進來的法令\n\n05:00.481 --> 05:29.580\n所以好那未來在這個高階3C的產品的資源回收跟這個城市採礦的理念上會不會有這個修法或者是研擬新法令的計畫呢目前我們是在這個資源循環推動法裡面有一些設計綠色設計或是說整個獎勵補助的一個或是說資源循環的這個路徑上面能夠再加強的地方是在資源循環的推動法裡面的確是有\n\n05:30.708 --> 05:58.517\n好那毕竟好就是在这个现有的法令架构之下其实赵伟都觉得说你们这个非法气质跟这个环境管理的执法上都已经有出现这个痛点的问题这表示说相关的法令可能有不足的地方所以资源循环应该是可以再更有效率一点最重要的是说我们也还是要跟国际接轨那\n\n05:59.454 --> 06:20.240\n部長您覺得就是說在之前啦過去你還沒有擔任部長之前曾經有多次出席在國際上的這些重要的這個環境議題的會議那代表國家發聲在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹跟還有帥氣的照片謝謝\n\n06:21.721 --> 06:45.671\n在我相信就是說台灣呢其實就需要像您這樣有具有國際觀的部會首長來帶領我們台灣在各種議題上能夠就是說在我們國際這個大舞台發光發熱那您現在當部長了我相信也可以讓所有就是說所屬的高階文官可以有一起進步的格局\n\n06:46.511 --> 07:13.216\n那支持讓支持他們出國多去看利用這個開放新技術跟新資源的觀念來解決我們台灣面臨的這些環境的問題我想我不曉得部長是不是有同意本席的建議在提升我們資源循環跟環境管理的議題上盡量可以接軌國際然後採取這個逐步開放的這個有效的這個政策規劃\n\n07:14.256 --> 07:40.011\n我非常同意也報告委員我在民間的時候是一個月出國一兩次現在一年頂多只能一次所以很可憐所以我是鼓勵我們同仁這個能夠多出去多接軌所以像剛剛委員提到說是不是有一些國外的這種好的公司到臺灣我們幫他排擠出這種環保的法規因為我們有些是蠻硬的蠻死的所以我們未來也可以考慮說國外好的公司進來臺灣的時候我們有一個專業的一個\n\n07:41.112 --> 08:10.002\n如果他是環保好的公司我們應該開放讓他進來產生這種碾漁的效益我們現在現行一些設計的這些規範可能就要做一些調整了不然就真的很可惜那最後本席想要強調就是說資源循環做得好環境管理負擔少那其實那個意思也就是賴盈盈做得好延續敏負擔就少那我現在我就很想請教我想請教我們的\n\n08:11.860 --> 08:22.761\n我們的嚴署長你覺得你現在負擔多還是少呢報告委員我覺得我現在負擔剛剛好\n\n08:28.828 --> 08:48.782\n這我相信你負擔還是很大的啦但是賴營署長還是做得不錯的啦至少起碼那個賴署長也很認真而且他也蠻就是蠻靈活的在福祉產業上其實剛剛我講了幾個點其實都有朝這個方向在\n\n08:49.662 --> 09:01.687\n在邁進那我們知道你很辛苦因為一站上來我剛差一點看不到你的臉雖然你站在燈光下真的你去災區真的待很久然後曬得很黑也辛苦你了那這個\n\n09:06.065 --> 09:24.813\n兩位賴署長可以請回座管理是一項成本資源強調的是一種價值所以任何的廢棄物都可以視為資源關鍵是說我們在於轉化的成本高低的問題廢手機\n\n09:27.054 --> 09:44.208\n既然可以作为这个奥运奖牌很多的资源也可以转为这个扶植地方产业的这个经济支柱那我想在这个过程当中我有看到赖署长有在朝这个方向来努力我觉得那个是很棒的\n\n09:44.810 --> 10:11.920\n那我想我们我之前我有提过就是说以台东县为例本身就有这个奖励投资相关产业的法规那在这个环境资源回收提供的技术跟物资的支持下如果协助台东的渔船或者这个观光休闲娱乐船以免费或补助的这个家装使用回收光电板让这些船\n\n10:12.620 --> 10:27.177\n可以獲得更多的電力資源然後轉化這個動力減少燒油產生的廢氣我相信有許多漁民跟在地的民眾也會感謝環境部的這個德政你們可以參考看看\n\n10:27.857 --> 10:56.277\n委員這個概念非常好我們會來研議一下就是如何用回收的然後幫助漁民那也跟委員報告因為我們最近有算出來一個台灣的循環經濟的產值是1688億去年然後大概有10萬的就業人口那我們也發現說其實這個很適合例如說像台東可以發展起來所以這個部分如果未來循環經濟我是覺得循環經濟跟觀光一樣是一個蠻好的一個產業我們可以一起努力來推動\n\n10:57.412 --> 11:06.632\n但我想一個大前提就是說台東畢竟它還是一個觀光大縣那我們能夠賣的\n\n11:08.044 --> 11:31.877\n是我們的自然景觀那這個大原則就是我們不要在我們在做一些就是說不管是資源的回收的再利用或者是一些能源上的開發我們都不應該去破壞那個自然景觀\n\n11:32.557 --> 11:47.863\n我想這個是一個很重要的大前提那所以我相信只要部長支持那整個資源循環的產業可以主動扶持很多地方的這個產業的發展那這些需要你們了解回收技術跟回收產品的應用\n\n11:48.843 --> 12:03.577\n那針對可以幫助地方產業的這個回收業者也期待你們可以給予更多的支持跟鼓勵我想這樣的呼籲環境部你們是不是能夠思考並且提出一個具體的規劃好沒問題好謝謝兩位謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.625,"end":27.163,"text":"謝主席麻煩請環境部部長跟環關署署長請部長跟署長陳委員好部長好那今天召委安排這個從非法棄置到城市採礦的這個專題報告我也參考了你們的書面報告因為我發現在這個短短八頁"},{"start":28.154,"end":50.24,"text":"不到裡面大概大概非法氣質的部分佔了九成那你們對於這個城市採礦的部分大概只有佔了10%而已那我不太清楚說這個是不是朝偉的本意啦就說在這個比例上你們怎麼去決定這樣子的"},{"start":53.509,"end":74.094,"text":"兩個其實是在討論兩件事有價值的回收資源那跟沒有價值的廢棄物被非法棄置的問題鵝鮑偉我解釋一下因為我這邊有用一個其實我們非法棄置最大的就是營建剩餘土石方那營建剩餘土石方如果更好的循環它就是也是一種城市採礦"},{"start":75.174,"end":93.021,"text":"所以其實我們這個裡面花很多時間其實有一張圖是特別講說他怎麼去循環到土資場等等如果我們建構的起來就是城市採礦起來的話就沒有營建廢棄物的問題因為我們上網也是都可以看到這個書面報告啦所以只是提醒一下這個比例上我們會誤以為"},{"start":95.662,"end":115.612,"text":"是不是召委给你们的指示是这样那我要先请教部长就是说你是否知道在2020年的这个东京奥运的这个奖牌是由这个回收的手机制作的这是象征这个城市矿山的理念吗算是吧这也是一种这个循环在利用"},{"start":116.257,"end":142.097,"text":"好那針對這個有價台灣手機或者3C產品台灣回收的這個業者你覺得他們再生利用的技術好不好那回收之後最終產物是什麼最終產物的話手機回收就有不一樣的金屬來源例如說像有的是手機回收可以製作屋出來提煉出屋出來不一樣的不一樣的內容好那"},{"start":142.97,"end":161.143,"text":"就說舉例啦齁那個日本的回收技術其實應該是目前看起來是優於台灣嘛那還是說那回收過程有沒有產生這個污染或公安的問題不管是日本或者是台灣"},{"start":162.359,"end":179.546,"text":"我看過就是說我看過一些歐洲的一些垃圾或資源回收處理廠有爆炸的事情燃燒的事情我問他是什麼手機手機裡面的鋰電池所以的確是有一些可能衍生的公安問題會出現如果處理不好的話"},{"start":180.883,"end":200.904,"text":"我想部長有這樣提到表示你們基本上對於這些問題都有一些基本的掌握那上次對於這個光電板的回收那本席也曾經提過說如果國外有更先進的技術想要進來台灣投資往往是很困難因為他們要先取得廢棄物處理廠的資格"},{"start":204.107,"end":228.643,"text":"而这个废弃物处理的是没有价值或者是低价值的一般废弃物那这等于是说去限制了这个先进技术可以直接高端回收的高价值资源的这个途径是很可惜那我觉得说你们在的确是有很多的很多去国外考察先进资源回收的"},{"start":234.147,"end":260.945,"text":"在出国回来你们去看了回来就要整理好报告然后又赶快有动作然后再赶快把它转化成有用的计划或者是政策不应该只是说去看一看回来消息很消极就没有其他作为这样子会拘泥说你们可能会变成永远都是在这个法规范围内去做管理的事情"},{"start":262.106,"end":287.139,"text":"因為不是只有管理就好那如果是這樣這樣可能就是很辜負了你們升格為環境部的這個意義了那部長你們在升格之後在資源循環跟環境管理方面的法令大概就是你們修訂了幾條還是說只是有都是繼續沿用環保署時代的訂定的法規"},{"start":287.911,"end":298.528,"text":"報告委我們如果兩個署的話就是資源循環的推動法然後另外一個就是廢刑法這兩個就是我們這兩年來送進來準備要送進來的法令"},{"start":300.481,"end":329.58,"text":"所以好那未來在這個高階3C的產品的資源回收跟這個城市採礦的理念上會不會有這個修法或者是研擬新法令的計畫呢目前我們是在這個資源循環推動法裡面有一些設計綠色設計或是說整個獎勵補助的一個或是說資源循環的這個路徑上面能夠再加強的地方是在資源循環的推動法裡面的確是有"},{"start":330.708,"end":358.517,"text":"好那毕竟好就是在这个现有的法令架构之下其实赵伟都觉得说你们这个非法气质跟这个环境管理的执法上都已经有出现这个痛点的问题这表示说相关的法令可能有不足的地方所以资源循环应该是可以再更有效率一点最重要的是说我们也还是要跟国际接轨那"},{"start":359.454,"end":380.24,"text":"部長您覺得就是說在之前啦過去你還沒有擔任部長之前曾經有多次出席在國際上的這些重要的這個環境議題的會議那代表國家發聲在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹跟還有帥氣的照片謝謝"},{"start":381.721,"end":405.671,"text":"在我相信就是說台灣呢其實就需要像您這樣有具有國際觀的部會首長來帶領我們台灣在各種議題上能夠就是說在我們國際這個大舞台發光發熱那您現在當部長了我相信也可以讓所有就是說所屬的高階文官可以有一起進步的格局"},{"start":406.511,"end":433.216,"text":"那支持讓支持他們出國多去看利用這個開放新技術跟新資源的觀念來解決我們台灣面臨的這些環境的問題我想我不曉得部長是不是有同意本席的建議在提升我們資源循環跟環境管理的議題上盡量可以接軌國際然後採取這個逐步開放的這個有效的這個政策規劃"},{"start":434.256,"end":460.011,"text":"我非常同意也報告委員我在民間的時候是一個月出國一兩次現在一年頂多只能一次所以很可憐所以我是鼓勵我們同仁這個能夠多出去多接軌所以像剛剛委員提到說是不是有一些國外的這種好的公司到臺灣我們幫他排擠出這種環保的法規因為我們有些是蠻硬的蠻死的所以我們未來也可以考慮說國外好的公司進來臺灣的時候我們有一個專業的一個"},{"start":461.112,"end":490.002,"text":"如果他是環保好的公司我們應該開放讓他進來產生這種碾漁的效益我們現在現行一些設計的這些規範可能就要做一些調整了不然就真的很可惜那最後本席想要強調就是說資源循環做得好環境管理負擔少那其實那個意思也就是賴盈盈做得好延續敏負擔就少那我現在我就很想請教我想請教我們的"},{"start":491.86,"end":502.761,"text":"我們的嚴署長你覺得你現在負擔多還是少呢報告委員我覺得我現在負擔剛剛好"},{"start":508.828,"end":528.782,"text":"這我相信你負擔還是很大的啦但是賴營署長還是做得不錯的啦至少起碼那個賴署長也很認真而且他也蠻就是蠻靈活的在福祉產業上其實剛剛我講了幾個點其實都有朝這個方向在"},{"start":529.662,"end":541.687,"text":"在邁進那我們知道你很辛苦因為一站上來我剛差一點看不到你的臉雖然你站在燈光下真的你去災區真的待很久然後曬得很黑也辛苦你了那這個"},{"start":546.065,"end":564.813,"text":"兩位賴署長可以請回座管理是一項成本資源強調的是一種價值所以任何的廢棄物都可以視為資源關鍵是說我們在於轉化的成本高低的問題廢手機"},{"start":567.054,"end":584.208,"text":"既然可以作为这个奥运奖牌很多的资源也可以转为这个扶植地方产业的这个经济支柱那我想在这个过程当中我有看到赖署长有在朝这个方向来努力我觉得那个是很棒的"},{"start":584.81,"end":611.92,"text":"那我想我们我之前我有提过就是说以台东县为例本身就有这个奖励投资相关产业的法规那在这个环境资源回收提供的技术跟物资的支持下如果协助台东的渔船或者这个观光休闲娱乐船以免费或补助的这个家装使用回收光电板让这些船"},{"start":612.62,"end":627.177,"text":"可以獲得更多的電力資源然後轉化這個動力減少燒油產生的廢氣我相信有許多漁民跟在地的民眾也會感謝環境部的這個德政你們可以參考看看"},{"start":627.857,"end":656.277,"text":"委員 這個概念非常好我們會來研議一下就是如何用回收的然後幫助漁民那也跟委員報告因為我們最近有算出來一個台灣的循環經濟的產值是1688億去年然後大概有10萬的就業人口那我們也發現說其實這個很適合例如說像台東可以發展起來所以這個部分如果未來循環經濟我是覺得循環經濟跟觀光一樣是一個蠻好的一個產業我們可以一起努力來推動"},{"start":657.412,"end":666.632,"text":"但我想一個大前提就是說台東畢竟它還是一個觀光大縣那我們能夠賣的"},{"start":668.044,"end":691.877,"text":"是我們的自然景觀那這個大原則就是我們不要在我們在做一些就是說不管是資源的回收的再利用或者是一些能源上的開發我們都不應該去破壞那個自然景觀"},{"start":692.557,"end":707.863,"text":"我想這個是一個很重要的大前提那所以我相信只要部長支持那整個資源循環的產業可以主動扶持很多地方的這個產業的發展那這些需要你們了解回收技術跟回收產品的應用"},{"start":708.843,"end":723.577,"text":"那針對可以幫助地方產業的這個回收業者也期待你們可以給予更多的支持跟鼓勵我想這樣的呼籲環境部你們是不是能夠思考並且提出一個具體的規劃好沒問題好謝謝兩位謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1247,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時38分）謝謝主席，麻煩請環境部部長跟環管署署長。"],["主席：請部長跟署長。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。今天召委安排這個從「非法棄置到城市採礦」的專題報告，我也參考了你們的書面報告，因為我發現在短短8頁不到裡面，大概非法棄置的部分占了九成，而城市採礦的部分大概只占了10%而已。我不太清楚這個是不是召委的本意啦！其實是在討論兩件事，就是有價值的回收資源跟沒有價值的廢棄物被非法棄置的問題，你們怎麼去決定這樣的比例？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我解釋一下，其實我們非法棄置最大的就是營建剩餘土石方，如果營建剩餘土石方能有更好的循環，它也是一種城市採礦，所以我們在這個裡面花很多時間，有一張圖是特別講說它怎麼去循環到土石場等等，如果我們建構得起來，就是城市採礦起來的話，就沒有營建廢棄物的問題。"],["陳委員瑩：因為我們上網也是都可以看到這個書面報告，所以只是提醒一下這個比例，我們會誤以為是不是召委給你們的指示是這樣。我要先請教部長，您是否知道2020年東京奧運的獎牌是由回收的手機製作的？"],["彭部長啓明：是，知道。"],["陳委員瑩：這是象徵城市礦山的理念嗎？算是吧？"],["彭部長啓明：這也是一種循環再利用。"],["陳委員瑩：好。針對有價回收臺灣手機或者3C產品，你覺得業者再生利用的技術好不好？回收之後，最終產物是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：最終產物的話，手機回收就有不一樣的金屬來源，例如，有的手機回收可以提煉出鎢出來，不一樣的有不一樣的內容。"],["陳委員瑩：好。舉例，日本的回收技術目前看起來是優於臺灣。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["陳委員瑩：不管是日本或者是臺灣，回收過程有沒有產生污染或公安的問題？"],["彭部長啓明：我看過歐洲的一些垃圾或資源回收處理廠有爆炸的事情、燃燒的事情，我問他是什麼，手機！手機裡面的鋰電池。所以如果處理不好的話，有一些的確可能衍生公安問題會出現。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我想部長有這樣提到，表示你們對於這些問題都有一些基本的掌握。上次對於光電板的回收，本席也曾經提過，如果國外有更先進的技術想要進來臺灣投資，往往是很困難，因為他們要先取得廢棄物處理廠的資格，而這個廢棄物處理的是沒有價值或者是低價值的一般廢棄物，這等於是限制了先進技術可以直接高端回收高價值資源的途徑，是很可惜！","你們的確有很多去國外考察先進資源回收跟管理的觀念，重點是你們出國去看了，回來就要整理好報告，然後要趕快有動作，再趕快把它轉化成有用的計畫或者是政策。不應該只是去看一看、回來，很消極，沒有其他作為，這樣子你們可能會變成永遠都拘泥在法規範圍內去做管理的事情，因為不是只有管理就好，如果是這樣，可能就很辜負你們升格為環境部的意義了。","部長，你們在升格之後，在資源循環跟環境管理方面的法令，大概你們修正了幾條？還是都只是繼續沿用環保署時代訂定的法規？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，如果是兩個署的話，就是資源循環推動法，另外一個就是廢清法，這兩個就是我們這兩年來準備要送進來的法令。"],["陳委員瑩：好。未來在高階3C產品的資源回收跟城市採礦的理念上，會不會有修法或者是研擬新法令的計畫呢？"],["彭部長啓明：目前我們是在資源循環推動法裡面有一些綠色設計，或是整個獎勵補助、資源循環的路徑上能夠再加強的地方，在資源循環的推動法裡面的確是有。"],["陳委員瑩：好。在現有的法令架構之下，召委覺得你們在非法棄置跟環境管理的子法上都已經有出現痛點的問題，這表示相關的法令可能有不足的地方，所以資源循環應該是可以再更有效率一點。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["陳委員瑩：最重要的是，我們還是要跟國際接軌，部長，在您還沒有擔任部長之前，曾經有多次出席國際上的重要環境議題的會議，代表國家發聲，在維基百科上也都有詳細的介紹，還有帥氣的照片。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：臺灣其實就需要像您這樣具有國際觀的部會首長，帶領我們臺灣在各種議題上，在國際這個大舞臺發光發熱。那您現在當部長了，我相信也可以讓所屬的高階文官可以有一起進步的格局，支持他們出國多去看，利用開發新技術跟新資源的觀念，來解決我們臺灣面臨的這些環境的問題。我不知道部長是不是同意本席的建議，在提升資源循環跟環境管理的議題上，儘量可以接軌國際，然後採取逐步開放的有效政策規劃？"],["彭部長啓明：我非常同意，也報告委員，我在民間的時候，是一個月出國一、兩次，現在一年頂多只能一次，很可憐！所以我是鼓勵我們同仁能夠多出去、多接軌。剛剛委員提到是不是有國外好的公司到臺灣，受到我們環保法規的排擠？因為我們有些法規是滿硬、滿死的，未來我們也可以考慮，國外好的公司進來臺灣的時候，我們有一個專業的……如果它是好的環保公司，我們應該開放讓它進來，產生鯰魚效應。"],["陳委員瑩：對，我們現行一些設計的規範可能就要做一些調整……"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["陳委員瑩：不然就真的很可惜。"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯。"],["陳委員瑩：最後，本席想要強調，「資源循環做得好，環境管理負擔少」，其實那個意思也就是「賴瑩瑩做得好，顏旭明負擔就少」。現在我就很想請教我們的顏署長，你覺得你現在負擔多還是少呢？"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，我覺得我現在負擔剛剛好。"],["陳委員瑩：我相信你負擔還是很大的啦！但是賴瑩瑩署長還是做得不錯的啦！起碼賴署長也很認真，而且他也滿靈活的，在扶植產業上，剛剛我講的幾個點，其實他都有朝這個方向在邁進。我知道你很辛苦，因為剛剛一站上來，我差一點看不到你的臉，雖然你站在燈光下，但真的你去災區待很久，曬得很黑，也辛苦你了！"],["顏署長旭明：謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：管理是一項成本，資源強調的是一種價值，所以任何的廢棄物都可以視為資源，關鍵在於轉化成本高低的問題。廢手機竟然可以作為奧運獎牌，很多的資源也可以轉為扶植地方產業的經濟支柱。我想在這個過程當中，我看到賴署長有在朝這個方向努力，我覺得那個是很棒的。","之前我有提過，以臺東縣為例，本身就有獎勵投資相關產業的法規，在環境資源回收提供的技術跟物資的支持下，如果協助臺東的漁船或者觀光休閒娛樂船以免費或補助加裝、使用回收光電板，讓這些船可以獲得更多的電力資源，然後轉化動力，減少燒油產生的廢氣，我相信有許多漁民跟在地的民眾也會感謝環境部的德政，你們可以參考看看。"],["彭部長啓明：好，委員這個概念非常好，我們會來研議一下，就是如何用回收的，然後幫助漁民。也跟委員報告，我們最近有算出來，臺灣去年一年的循環經濟產值是1,688億元，大概有10萬的就業人口，我們也發現其實這個很適合地方發展起來，例如臺東，我是覺得循環經濟跟觀光一樣，是一個滿好的產業，我們可以一起努力來推動。"],["陳委員瑩：好，但我想一個大前提，臺東畢竟還是一個觀光大縣，我們能夠賣的只有我們的自然景觀，這個大原則就是，不管是在做資源的回收再利用，或者是一些能源上的開發，我們都不應該去破壞自然景觀，我想這個是一個很重要的大前提。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["陳委員瑩：我相信只要部長支持，整個資源循環的產業可以主動扶持很多地方的產業發展，這些需要你們了解回收技術跟回收產品的應用。針對可以幫助地方產業的回收業者，也期待你們可以給予更多的支持跟鼓勵，我想這樣的呼籲，環境部是不是能夠思考並且提出一個具體的規劃？"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝兩位。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員發言。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員不在。","接著我們請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}