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13:06:52","影片長度":"00:09:47","會議時間":"2025-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n（下午2時起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查\n(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n【二、(二)及(三)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書不予審查】【逐條討論】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-11-05","start_time":"2025-11-05T12:57:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-11-05T13:06:52+08:00","duration":587,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"165112","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165112","tool":"pyannote","id":"165112-pyannote"},"job_id":"YwbFuXR1wXtKgZaj","queued_at":"2025-11-05 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 585.053, \"end\": 585.213, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 585.213, \"end\": 586.636, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"楊\"}, {\"word\": \"耀\", \"start\": 586.636, \"end\": 586.777, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 586.777, \"end\": 586.817, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 586.817, \"end\": 586.877, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 586.877, \"end\": 586.897, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,897 --> 00:00:24,245\n謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長邀請彭部長姚委員好部長我們今天還是要探討一下廢棄物清運業者跑空單的問題不過先講齁就是我剛剛聽\n\n2\n00:00:25,649 --> 00:00:42,543\n您在答覆楊瓊瑩委員的時候講了一句台中市做得很好我覺得態度就是應該這樣子中央跟地方其實是一個合作的關係有不足的我們就把資源給\n\n3\n00:00:43,564 --> 00:01:12,860\n那做不好當然為了責任的理清我們必須要講出來責任歸屬是地方而地方做得好的部分其實我倒是剛剛在座位聽到部長這樣子回答我覺得很好政治就應該這樣子就是我剛剛有講我們要探討跑空單的問題就是說合法的\n\n4\n00:01:15,776 --> 00:01:42,083\n車輛在載運廢棄物的時候有裝有GPS然後呢他這件事情大概就是有GPS的車輛照跑然後沒有載運是不是就是把GPS放在摩托車上面摩托車跑進去車子跑到別的地方去是這樣子啊有這樣的案例\n\n5\n00:01:44,502 --> 00:02:09,540\n那我問一下摩托車跑進去對置場這個查不出來嗎我們有發現有發現這樣多久才發現因為假如是都是一般的卡車可能會有的時候會比較不注意那假如是像機車這種應該很容易發現\n\n6\n00:02:11,981 --> 00:02:35,958\n對就是說有跟委員報告其實我們未來要結合CCTV整個全台灣的CCTV跟GPS還有e-tag整個要合在一起變成為了這個事情因為這個警政單位是抓犯人那我們是抓非法棄置所以我們現在明年開始就要來做這個事情不是我剛才是問說他假如是用機車多久可以\n\n7\n00:02:36,866 --> 00:02:43,328\n你們多久會發現這種違規這個我們很會抓的組長因為這個事情還滿離譜的我以為都是卡車就是進出可能比較沒有那麼容易發現那假如也有機車的情況應該是很快會發現才對\n\n8\n00:02:56,292 --> 00:03:24,268\n是包含其實他有很多種樣態有汽車也有汽車然後甚至也有是那種叫做我們我們把它叫做小蜜蜂所以其實很多樣態但是我們大概都有抓過都有抓過對我現在的意思是說假如他是卡車對卡車卡車進出對置場是比較合理嘛對不對那\n\n9\n00:03:26,635 --> 00:03:54,120\n摩托車這樣子不會很容易發現嗎包委員我們在抓這個犯罪行為的時候大部分都是從他們場內自行的監控系統或從內外帳這邊查到的如果要實質我們自己去查可能不是很容易我現在不是說你們查譬如說這個部分是堆置場的人查嗎還是地方政府查\n\n10\n00:03:55,970 --> 00:04:17,001\n不是你們查那誰查主要是因為我們現在大概都是透過檢檢環聯合查緝的平台才能夠查到這種違規行為所以就是不是常態性的監控可以看出來的必須要聯合稽查的時候將來如果智慧圍籬建廠的時候就比較有機會\n\n11\n00:04:19,561 --> 00:04:39,410\n我有聽同仁跟我報告過就是說他們是有同仁會用AI的方式去算撈出來但是那個都要人都需要時間都是要人工啦現在他們是希望現在有在加快導入AI之後有加快我們希望把它加快而且未來如果明年開始有這個計畫的話更無縫接軌抓的速度會更快\n\n12\n00:04:40,491 --> 00:05:08,978\n剛剛有回答說AI智慧維尼系統建置以後就比較容易抓到對不對那現在我們已經有建置在2023年就建置11處那這一次發生事件的新北跟桃園有已經建置了嗎11處有沒有在這兩個\n\n13\n00:05:10,672 --> 00:05:25,684\n這一次新北那個應該是三年前的事就是還沒有建置之前對但是實際上因為它我們有很多判斷的依據就是那個地方為什麼進出比較\n\n14\n00:05:27,455 --> 00:05:48,590\n平凡或者是奇怪我們就會去看那剛才組長特別提到我們進去看的時候整個進去會整個把它扣押函他的所有攝影機我們再把它回溯去調查這件事情才發現有的是車子有的是機車等所以有一些案例其實是三年前的\n\n15\n00:05:49,511 --> 00:05:56,663\n那回算三年前就是我們AI智慧維理還沒有設置完成是目前的智慧維理\n\n16\n00:05:59,396 --> 00:06:23,466\n這個講也沒有關係大概是在比較中南部不方便講的就不要講現在大概以中南部的建制比較早一點不過我看資料我們在明年大概會花23.5億來明年大概5億是總TOTAL\n\n17\n00:06:26,207 --> 00:06:55,438\n那所以並不是明年就可以建置完全台灣並不是但是明年開始我們廢墟清理法裡面第十條之一有把這個我們可以將警政系統及其他交通部的e-tag整合進來其實那個量也瞬間會是很大的可以整合進來是不是那我這裡剛好有一個疑問就是就是署長剛剛講的是整合嘛\n\n18\n00:06:56,889 --> 00:07:24,632\n我問一下為什麼沒有辦法利用它現有的你懂我的意思嗎因為整個公路體系應該都有ETEC跟車牌辨識的系統為什麼我們沒有辦法直接現在是因為個資法的關係所以個資法如果我們要運用的話就要有法令的依據所以我們在修廢清法的時候就把這個我們可以去用這一些資料把它修到裡面來\n\n19\n00:07:26,033 --> 00:07:31,437\n我們以後還是可以用公路體系的資料可是他\n\n20\n00:07:32,830 --> 00:08:01,035\n他監控的範圍跟角度跟我們不一樣是不是這樣子所以我們才要另外花錢嘛要不然我們就利用他現有的嘛是這樣子嗎大家功能不同的教他比對我們會發展一個AI的智慧判試的一個邏輯出來好時間的關係我最後問一個因為手機齁我直接問署長\n\n21\n00:08:05,516 --> 00:08:27,083\n問部長環境部在什麼時候提出手機回收的獎勵金跟擴大回收管道就是要公告的話應該是明年開始有要求他們循環率要15%所以獎金的制度是明年才開始\n\n22\n00:08:27,403 --> 00:08:44,710\n不過這個部分不一定有獎金我們是規定回收那如果是要回收或許業者他會提供一些回饋為什麼這麼重視這個問題呢就是因為我們的回收率真的太低了12%而已嘛\n\n23\n00:08:45,635 --> 00:09:06,284\n是不是對百分之十二就是表示每一年我們假如說銷售五百萬部手機就有大概有三百八十萬支手機是沒有回收再利用因為是這樣子有回收\n\n24\n00:09:07,406 --> 00:09:27,884\n才有再利用的可能而且手機再利用的價值跟各面向都是很重要的事情所以我想這個也是為什麼今天特別必須要提出要討論城市採礦的問題我們\n\n25\n00:09:35,651 --> 00:09:46,897\n我們不要把可以採的礦讓它丟掉這個我想是部裡面的責任好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝楊耀文委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8897\t24245\t謝謝主席 主席請一下彭部長邀請彭部長姚委員好部長我們今天還是要探討一下廢棄物清運業者跑空單的問題不過先講齁 就是我剛剛聽\n25649\t42543\t您在答覆楊瓊瑩委員的時候講了一句台中市做得很好我覺得態度就是應該這樣子中央跟地方其實是一個合作的關係有不足的我們就把資源給\n43564\t72860\t那做不好當然為了責任的理清我們必須要講出來責任歸屬是地方而地方做得好的部分其實我倒是剛剛在座位聽到部長這樣子回答我覺得很好政治就應該這樣子就是我剛剛有講我們要探討跑空單的問題就是說合法的\n75776\t102083\t車輛在載運廢棄物的時候有裝有GPS然後呢他這件事情大概就是有GPS的車輛照跑然後沒有載運是不是就是把GPS放在摩托車上面摩托車跑進去車子跑到別的地方去是這樣子啊有這樣的案例\n104502\t129540\t那我問一下 摩托車跑進去對置場 這個查不出來嗎我們有發現 有發現這樣多久才發現因為假如是都是一般的卡車可能會有的時候會比較不注意那假如是像機車這種應該很容易發現\n131981\t155958\t對 就是說有跟委員報告其實我們未來要結合CCTV整個全台灣的CCTV跟GPS還有e-tag整個要合在一起變成為了這個事情因為這個警政單位是抓犯人那我們是抓非法棄置所以我們現在明年開始就要來做這個事情不是 我剛才是問說他假如是用機車多久可以\n156866\t163328\t你們多久會發現這種違規這個我們很會抓的組長因為這個事情還滿離譜的我以為都是卡車就是進出可能比較沒有那麼容易發現那假如也有機車的情況應該是很快會發現才對\n176292\t204268\t是 包含其實他有很多種樣態有汽車也有汽車然後甚至也有是那種叫做我們我們把它叫做小蜜蜂所以其實很多樣態但是我們大概都有抓過都有抓過對我現在的意思是說假如他是卡車對卡車卡車進出對置場是比較合理嘛對不對那\n206635\t234120\t摩托車這樣子不會很容易發現嗎包委員我們在抓這個犯罪行為的時候大部分都是從他們場內自行的監控系統或從內外帳這邊查到的如果要實質我們自己去查可能不是很容易我現在不是說你們查譬如說這個部分是堆置場的人查嗎還是地方政府查\n235970\t257001\t不是你們查那誰查主要是因為我們現在大概都是透過檢檢環聯合查緝的平台才能夠查到這種違規行為所以就是不是常態性的監控可以看出來的必須要聯合稽查的時候將來如果智慧圍籬建廠的時候就比較有機會\n259561\t279410\t我有聽同仁跟我報告過就是說他們是有同仁會用AI的方式去算 撈出來但是那個都要人 都需要時間都是要人工啦 現在他們是希望現在有在加快 導入AI之後有加快我們希望把它加快而且未來如果明年開始有這個計畫的話更無縫接軌 抓的速度會更快\n280491\t308978\t剛剛有回答說 AI智慧維尼系統建置以後就比較容易抓到對不對那現在我們已經有建置在2023年就建置11處那這一次發生事件的新北跟桃園有已經建置了嗎11處有沒有在這兩個\n310672\t325684\t這一次 新北那個應該是三年前的事就是還沒有建置之前 對但是實際上因為它我們有很多判斷的依據就是那個地方為什麼進出比較\n327455\t348590\t平凡或者是奇怪我們就會去看那剛才組長特別提到我們進去看的時候整個進去會整個把它扣押函他的所有攝影機我們再把它回溯去調查這件事情才發現有的是車子有的是機車等所以有一些案例其實是三年前的\n349511\t356663\t那回算三年前就是我們AI智慧維理還沒有設置完成是 目前的智慧維理\n359396\t383466\t這個講也沒有關係大概是在比較中南部不方便講的就不要講現在大概以中南部的建制比較早一點不過我看資料我們在明年大概會花23.5億來明年大概5億是總TOTAL\n386207\t415438\t那所以 並不是明年就可以建置完全台灣並不是 但是明年開始我們廢墟清理法裡面第十條之一有把這個我們可以將警政系統及其他交通部的e-tag整合進來其實那個量也瞬間會是很大的可以整合進來是不是那我這裡剛好有一個疑問就是就是署長剛剛講的是整合嘛\n416889\t444632\t我問一下為什麼沒有辦法利用它現有的你懂我的意思嗎因為整個公路體系應該都有ETEC跟車牌辨識的系統為什麼我們沒有辦法直接現在是因為個資法的關係所以個資法如果我們要運用的話就要有法令的依據所以我們在修廢清法的時候就把這個我們可以去用這一些資料把它修到裡面來\n446033\t451437\t我們以後還是可以用公路體系的資料可是他\n452830\t481035\t他監控的範圍跟角度跟我們不一樣是不是這樣子所以我們才要另外花錢嘛要不然我們就利用他現有的嘛是這樣子嗎大家功能不同的教他比對我們會發展一個AI的智慧判試的一個邏輯出來好 時間的關係我最後問一個因為手機齁我直接問署長\n485516\t507083\t問部長 環境部在什麼時候提出手機回收的獎勵金跟擴大回收管道就是要公告的話應該是明年開始有要求他們循環率要15%所以獎金的制度是明年才開始\n507403\t524710\t不過這個部分不一定有獎金我們是規定回收那如果是要回收或許業者他會提供一些回饋為什麼這麼重視這個問題呢就是因為我們的回收率真的太低了12%而已嘛\n525635\t546284\t是不是 對百分之十二就是表示每一年我們假如說銷售五百萬部手機就有大概有三百八十萬支手機是沒有回收再利用因為是這樣子 有回收\n547406\t567884\t才有再利用的可能而且手機再利用的價值跟各面向都是很重要的事情所以我想這個也是為什麼今天特別必須要提出要討論城市採礦的問題我們\n575651\t586897\t我們不要把可以採的礦 讓它丟掉這個我想是部裡面的責任 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝楊耀文委員發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席請一下彭部長邀請彭部長姚委員好部長我們今天還是要探討一下廢棄物清運業者跑空單的問題不過先講齁 就是我剛剛聽\n您在答覆楊瓊瑩委員的時候講了一句台中市做得很好我覺得態度就是應該這樣子中央跟地方其實是一個合作的關係有不足的我們就把資源給\n那做不好當然為了責任的理清我們必須要講出來責任歸屬是地方而地方做得好的部分其實我倒是剛剛在座位聽到部長這樣子回答我覺得很好政治就應該這樣子就是我剛剛有講我們要探討跑空單的問題就是說合法的\n車輛在載運廢棄物的時候有裝有GPS然後呢他這件事情大概就是有GPS的車輛照跑然後沒有載運是不是就是把GPS放在摩托車上面摩托車跑進去車子跑到別的地方去是這樣子啊有這樣的案例\n那我問一下 摩托車跑進去對置場 這個查不出來嗎我們有發現 有發現這樣多久才發現因為假如是都是一般的卡車可能會有的時候會比較不注意那假如是像機車這種應該很容易發現\n對 就是說有跟委員報告其實我們未來要結合CCTV整個全台灣的CCTV跟GPS還有e-tag整個要合在一起變成為了這個事情因為這個警政單位是抓犯人那我們是抓非法棄置所以我們現在明年開始就要來做這個事情不是 我剛才是問說他假如是用機車多久可以\n你們多久會發現這種違規這個我們很會抓的組長因為這個事情還滿離譜的我以為都是卡車就是進出可能比較沒有那麼容易發現那假如也有機車的情況應該是很快會發現才對\n是 包含其實他有很多種樣態有汽車也有汽車然後甚至也有是那種叫做我們我們把它叫做小蜜蜂所以其實很多樣態但是我們大概都有抓過都有抓過對我現在的意思是說假如他是卡車對卡車卡車進出對置場是比較合理嘛對不對那\n摩托車這樣子不會很容易發現嗎包委員我們在抓這個犯罪行為的時候大部分都是從他們場內自行的監控系統或從內外帳這邊查到的如果要實質我們自己去查可能不是很容易我現在不是說你們查譬如說這個部分是堆置場的人查嗎還是地方政府查\n不是你們查那誰查主要是因為我們現在大概都是透過檢檢環聯合查緝的平台才能夠查到這種違規行為所以就是不是常態性的監控可以看出來的必須要聯合稽查的時候將來如果智慧圍籬建廠的時候就比較有機會\n我有聽同仁跟我報告過就是說他們是有同仁會用AI的方式去算 撈出來但是那個都要人 都需要時間都是要人工啦 現在他們是希望現在有在加快 導入AI之後有加快我們希望把它加快而且未來如果明年開始有這個計畫的話更無縫接軌 抓的速度會更快\n剛剛有回答說 AI智慧維尼系統建置以後就比較容易抓到對不對那現在我們已經有建置在2023年就建置11處那這一次發生事件的新北跟桃園有已經建置了嗎11處有沒有在這兩個\n這一次 新北那個應該是三年前的事就是還沒有建置之前 對但是實際上因為它我們有很多判斷的依據就是那個地方為什麼進出比較\n平凡或者是奇怪我們就會去看那剛才組長特別提到我們進去看的時候整個進去會整個把它扣押函他的所有攝影機我們再把它回溯去調查這件事情才發現有的是車子有的是機車等所以有一些案例其實是三年前的\n那回算三年前就是我們AI智慧維理還沒有設置完成是 目前的智慧維理\n這個講也沒有關係大概是在比較中南部不方便講的就不要講現在大概以中南部的建制比較早一點不過我看資料我們在明年大概會花23.5億來明年大概5億是總TOTAL\n那所以 並不是明年就可以建置完全台灣並不是 但是明年開始我們廢墟清理法裡面第十條之一有把這個我們可以將警政系統及其他交通部的e-tag整合進來其實那個量也瞬間會是很大的可以整合進來是不是那我這裡剛好有一個疑問就是就是署長剛剛講的是整合嘛\n我問一下為什麼沒有辦法利用它現有的你懂我的意思嗎因為整個公路體系應該都有ETEC跟車牌辨識的系統為什麼我們沒有辦法直接現在是因為個資法的關係所以個資法如果我們要運用的話就要有法令的依據所以我們在修廢清法的時候就把這個我們可以去用這一些資料把它修到裡面來\n我們以後還是可以用公路體系的資料可是他\n他監控的範圍跟角度跟我們不一樣是不是這樣子所以我們才要另外花錢嘛要不然我們就利用他現有的嘛是這樣子嗎大家功能不同的教他比對我們會發展一個AI的智慧判試的一個邏輯出來好 時間的關係我最後問一個因為手機齁我直接問署長\n問部長 環境部在什麼時候提出手機回收的獎勵金跟擴大回收管道就是要公告的話應該是明年開始有要求他們循環率要15%所以獎金的制度是明年才開始\n不過這個部分不一定有獎金我們是規定回收那如果是要回收或許業者他會提供一些回饋為什麼這麼重視這個問題呢就是因為我們的回收率真的太低了12%而已嘛\n是不是 對百分之十二就是表示每一年我們假如說銷售五百萬部手機就有大概有三百八十萬支手機是沒有回收再利用因為是這樣子 有回收\n才有再利用的可能而且手機再利用的價值跟各面向都是很重要的事情所以我想這個也是為什麼今天特別必須要提出要討論城市採礦的問題我們\n我們不要把可以採的礦 讓它丟掉這個我想是部裡面的責任 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝楊耀文委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.897 --> 00:24.245\n謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長邀請彭部長姚委員好部長我們今天還是要探討一下廢棄物清運業者跑空單的問題不過先講齁就是我剛剛聽\n\n00:25.649 --> 00:42.543\n您在答覆楊瓊瑩委員的時候講了一句台中市做得很好我覺得態度就是應該這樣子中央跟地方其實是一個合作的關係有不足的我們就把資源給\n\n00:43.564 --> 01:12.860\n那做不好當然為了責任的理清我們必須要講出來責任歸屬是地方而地方做得好的部分其實我倒是剛剛在座位聽到部長這樣子回答我覺得很好政治就應該這樣子就是我剛剛有講我們要探討跑空單的問題就是說合法的\n\n01:15.776 --> 01:42.083\n車輛在載運廢棄物的時候有裝有GPS然後呢他這件事情大概就是有GPS的車輛照跑然後沒有載運是不是就是把GPS放在摩托車上面摩托車跑進去車子跑到別的地方去是這樣子啊有這樣的案例\n\n01:44.502 --> 02:09.540\n那我問一下摩托車跑進去對置場這個查不出來嗎我們有發現有發現這樣多久才發現因為假如是都是一般的卡車可能會有的時候會比較不注意那假如是像機車這種應該很容易發現\n\n02:11.981 --> 02:35.958\n對就是說有跟委員報告其實我們未來要結合CCTV整個全台灣的CCTV跟GPS還有e-tag整個要合在一起變成為了這個事情因為這個警政單位是抓犯人那我們是抓非法棄置所以我們現在明年開始就要來做這個事情不是我剛才是問說他假如是用機車多久可以\n\n02:36.866 --> 02:43.328\n你們多久會發現這種違規這個我們很會抓的組長因為這個事情還滿離譜的我以為都是卡車就是進出可能比較沒有那麼容易發現那假如也有機車的情況應該是很快會發現才對\n\n02:56.292 --> 03:24.268\n是包含其實他有很多種樣態有汽車也有汽車然後甚至也有是那種叫做我們我們把它叫做小蜜蜂所以其實很多樣態但是我們大概都有抓過都有抓過對我現在的意思是說假如他是卡車對卡車卡車進出對置場是比較合理嘛對不對那\n\n03:26.635 --> 03:54.120\n摩托車這樣子不會很容易發現嗎包委員我們在抓這個犯罪行為的時候大部分都是從他們場內自行的監控系統或從內外帳這邊查到的如果要實質我們自己去查可能不是很容易我現在不是說你們查譬如說這個部分是堆置場的人查嗎還是地方政府查\n\n03:55.970 --> 04:17.001\n不是你們查那誰查主要是因為我們現在大概都是透過檢檢環聯合查緝的平台才能夠查到這種違規行為所以就是不是常態性的監控可以看出來的必須要聯合稽查的時候將來如果智慧圍籬建廠的時候就比較有機會\n\n04:19.561 --> 04:39.410\n我有聽同仁跟我報告過就是說他們是有同仁會用AI的方式去算撈出來但是那個都要人都需要時間都是要人工啦現在他們是希望現在有在加快導入AI之後有加快我們希望把它加快而且未來如果明年開始有這個計畫的話更無縫接軌抓的速度會更快\n\n04:40.491 --> 05:08.978\n剛剛有回答說AI智慧維尼系統建置以後就比較容易抓到對不對那現在我們已經有建置在2023年就建置11處那這一次發生事件的新北跟桃園有已經建置了嗎11處有沒有在這兩個\n\n05:10.672 --> 05:25.684\n這一次新北那個應該是三年前的事就是還沒有建置之前對但是實際上因為它我們有很多判斷的依據就是那個地方為什麼進出比較\n\n05:27.455 --> 05:48.590\n平凡或者是奇怪我們就會去看那剛才組長特別提到我們進去看的時候整個進去會整個把它扣押函他的所有攝影機我們再把它回溯去調查這件事情才發現有的是車子有的是機車等所以有一些案例其實是三年前的\n\n05:49.511 --> 05:56.663\n那回算三年前就是我們AI智慧維理還沒有設置完成是目前的智慧維理\n\n05:59.396 --> 06:23.466\n這個講也沒有關係大概是在比較中南部不方便講的就不要講現在大概以中南部的建制比較早一點不過我看資料我們在明年大概會花23.5億來明年大概5億是總TOTAL\n\n06:26.207 --> 06:55.438\n那所以並不是明年就可以建置完全台灣並不是但是明年開始我們廢墟清理法裡面第十條之一有把這個我們可以將警政系統及其他交通部的e-tag整合進來其實那個量也瞬間會是很大的可以整合進來是不是那我這裡剛好有一個疑問就是就是署長剛剛講的是整合嘛\n\n06:56.889 --> 07:24.632\n我問一下為什麼沒有辦法利用它現有的你懂我的意思嗎因為整個公路體系應該都有ETEC跟車牌辨識的系統為什麼我們沒有辦法直接現在是因為個資法的關係所以個資法如果我們要運用的話就要有法令的依據所以我們在修廢清法的時候就把這個我們可以去用這一些資料把它修到裡面來\n\n07:26.033 --> 07:31.437\n我們以後還是可以用公路體系的資料可是他\n\n07:32.830 --> 08:01.035\n他監控的範圍跟角度跟我們不一樣是不是這樣子所以我們才要另外花錢嘛要不然我們就利用他現有的嘛是這樣子嗎大家功能不同的教他比對我們會發展一個AI的智慧判試的一個邏輯出來好時間的關係我最後問一個因為手機齁我直接問署長\n\n08:05.516 --> 08:27.083\n問部長環境部在什麼時候提出手機回收的獎勵金跟擴大回收管道就是要公告的話應該是明年開始有要求他們循環率要15%所以獎金的制度是明年才開始\n\n08:27.403 --> 08:44.710\n不過這個部分不一定有獎金我們是規定回收那如果是要回收或許業者他會提供一些回饋為什麼這麼重視這個問題呢就是因為我們的回收率真的太低了12%而已嘛\n\n08:45.635 --> 09:06.284\n是不是對百分之十二就是表示每一年我們假如說銷售五百萬部手機就有大概有三百八十萬支手機是沒有回收再利用因為是這樣子有回收\n\n09:07.406 --> 09:27.884\n才有再利用的可能而且手機再利用的價值跟各面向都是很重要的事情所以我想這個也是為什麼今天特別必須要提出要討論城市採礦的問題我們\n\n09:35.651 --> 09:46.897\n我們不要把可以採的礦讓它丟掉這個我想是部裡面的責任好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝楊耀文委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.897,"end":24.245,"text":"謝謝主席 主席請一下彭部長邀請彭部長姚委員好部長我們今天還是要探討一下廢棄物清運業者跑空單的問題不過先講齁 就是我剛剛聽"},{"start":25.649,"end":42.543,"text":"您在答覆楊瓊瑩委員的時候講了一句台中市做得很好我覺得態度就是應該這樣子中央跟地方其實是一個合作的關係有不足的我們就把資源給"},{"start":43.564,"end":72.86,"text":"那做不好當然為了責任的理清我們必須要講出來責任歸屬是地方而地方做得好的部分其實我倒是剛剛在座位聽到部長這樣子回答我覺得很好政治就應該這樣子就是我剛剛有講我們要探討跑空單的問題就是說合法的"},{"start":75.776,"end":102.083,"text":"車輛在載運廢棄物的時候有裝有GPS然後呢他這件事情大概就是有GPS的車輛照跑然後沒有載運是不是就是把GPS放在摩托車上面摩托車跑進去車子跑到別的地方去是這樣子啊有這樣的案例"},{"start":104.502,"end":129.54,"text":"那我問一下 摩托車跑進去對置場 這個查不出來嗎我們有發現 有發現這樣多久才發現因為假如是都是一般的卡車可能會有的時候會比較不注意那假如是像機車這種應該很容易發現"},{"start":131.981,"end":155.958,"text":"對 就是說有跟委員報告其實我們未來要結合CCTV整個全台灣的CCTV跟GPS還有e-tag整個要合在一起變成為了這個事情因為這個警政單位是抓犯人那我們是抓非法棄置所以我們現在明年開始就要來做這個事情不是 我剛才是問說他假如是用機車多久可以"},{"start":156.866,"end":163.328,"text":"你們多久會發現這種違規這個我們很會抓的組長因為這個事情還滿離譜的我以為都是卡車就是進出可能比較沒有那麼容易發現那假如也有機車的情況應該是很快會發現才對"},{"start":176.292,"end":204.268,"text":"是 包含其實他有很多種樣態有汽車也有汽車然後甚至也有是那種叫做我們我們把它叫做小蜜蜂所以其實很多樣態但是我們大概都有抓過都有抓過對我現在的意思是說假如他是卡車對卡車卡車進出對置場是比較合理嘛對不對那"},{"start":206.635,"end":234.12,"text":"摩托車這樣子不會很容易發現嗎包委員我們在抓這個犯罪行為的時候大部分都是從他們場內自行的監控系統或從內外帳這邊查到的如果要實質我們自己去查可能不是很容易我現在不是說你們查譬如說這個部分是堆置場的人查嗎還是地方政府查"},{"start":235.97,"end":257.001,"text":"不是你們查那誰查主要是因為我們現在大概都是透過檢檢環聯合查緝的平台才能夠查到這種違規行為所以就是不是常態性的監控可以看出來的必須要聯合稽查的時候將來如果智慧圍籬建廠的時候就比較有機會"},{"start":259.561,"end":279.41,"text":"我有聽同仁跟我報告過就是說他們是有同仁會用AI的方式去算 撈出來但是那個都要人 都需要時間都是要人工啦 現在他們是希望現在有在加快 導入AI之後有加快我們希望把它加快而且未來如果明年開始有這個計畫的話更無縫接軌 抓的速度會更快"},{"start":280.491,"end":308.978,"text":"剛剛有回答說 AI智慧維尼系統建置以後就比較容易抓到對不對那現在我們已經有建置在2023年就建置11處那這一次發生事件的新北跟桃園有已經建置了嗎11處有沒有在這兩個"},{"start":310.672,"end":325.684,"text":"這一次 新北那個應該是三年前的事就是還沒有建置之前 對但是實際上因為它我們有很多判斷的依據就是那個地方為什麼進出比較"},{"start":327.455,"end":348.59,"text":"平凡或者是奇怪我們就會去看那剛才組長特別提到我們進去看的時候整個進去會整個把它扣押函他的所有攝影機我們再把它回溯去調查這件事情才發現有的是車子有的是機車等所以有一些案例其實是三年前的"},{"start":349.511,"end":356.663,"text":"那回算三年前就是我們AI智慧維理還沒有設置完成是 目前的智慧維理"},{"start":359.396,"end":383.466,"text":"這個講也沒有關係大概是在比較中南部不方便講的就不要講現在大概以中南部的建制比較早一點不過我看資料我們在明年大概會花23.5億來明年大概5億是總TOTAL"},{"start":386.207,"end":415.438,"text":"那所以 並不是明年就可以建置完全台灣並不是 但是明年開始我們廢墟清理法裡面第十條之一有把這個我們可以將警政系統及其他交通部的e-tag整合進來其實那個量也瞬間會是很大的可以整合進來是不是那我這裡剛好有一個疑問就是就是署長剛剛講的是整合嘛"},{"start":416.889,"end":444.632,"text":"我問一下為什麼沒有辦法利用它現有的你懂我的意思嗎因為整個公路體系應該都有ETEC跟車牌辨識的系統為什麼我們沒有辦法直接現在是因為個資法的關係所以個資法如果我們要運用的話就要有法令的依據所以我們在修廢清法的時候就把這個我們可以去用這一些資料把它修到裡面來"},{"start":446.033,"end":451.437,"text":"我們以後還是可以用公路體系的資料可是他"},{"start":452.83,"end":481.035,"text":"他監控的範圍跟角度跟我們不一樣是不是這樣子所以我們才要另外花錢嘛要不然我們就利用他現有的嘛是這樣子嗎大家功能不同的教他比對我們會發展一個AI的智慧判試的一個邏輯出來好 時間的關係我最後問一個因為手機齁我直接問署長"},{"start":485.516,"end":507.083,"text":"問部長 環境部在什麼時候提出手機回收的獎勵金跟擴大回收管道就是要公告的話應該是明年開始有要求他們循環率要15%所以獎金的制度是明年才開始"},{"start":507.403,"end":524.71,"text":"不過這個部分不一定有獎金我們是規定回收那如果是要回收或許業者他會提供一些回饋為什麼這麼重視這個問題呢就是因為我們的回收率真的太低了12%而已嘛"},{"start":525.635,"end":546.284,"text":"是不是 對百分之十二就是表示每一年我們假如說銷售五百萬部手機就有大概有三百八十萬支手機是沒有回收再利用因為是這樣子 有回收"},{"start":547.406,"end":567.884,"text":"才有再利用的可能而且手機再利用的價值跟各面向都是很重要的事情所以我想這個也是為什麼今天特別必須要提出要討論城市採礦的問題我們"},{"start":575.651,"end":586.897,"text":"我們不要把可以採的礦 讓它丟掉這個我想是部裡面的責任 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝楊耀文委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1314,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（12時57分）謝謝主席，請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長，我們今天還是要探討一下廢棄物清運業者跑空單的問題，不過我先講，我剛剛聽您在答復楊瓊瓔委員的時候，講了一句說臺中市做得很好，我覺得態度就是應該這樣子，中央跟地方其實是一個合作的關係，有不足的，我們就把資源給它，做不好當然會有責任的釐清，我們必須要這樣講出來，責任歸屬是地方，我剛剛在座位聽到部長這樣回答，我覺得很好，政治就應該這樣子。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["楊委員曜：我剛剛有講我們要探討跑空單的問題，合法的車輛在載運廢棄物的時候裝有GPS，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["楊委員曜：這件事情大概就是有GPS的車輛照跑，然後沒有載運，是不是？"],["彭部長啓明：就是把GPS放到摩托車上面，摩托車跑進去，車子跑到別的地方去。"],["楊委員曜：喔！是這樣子啊？"],["彭部長啓明：有這樣的案例。"],["楊委員曜：那我問一下，摩托車跑進去堆置場，這個查不出來嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我們有發現。"],["楊委員曜：多久才發現？因為假如都是一般的卡車，可能有的時候會比較不注意，但像機車這種，應該很容易發現啦！"],["彭部長啓明：對，跟委員報告，我們未來要結合整個全臺灣的CCTV、GPS還有eTag，整個要合在一起為了這個事情，因為警政單位是抓犯人，我們是抓非法棄置，所以我們明年開始就要來做這個事情。"],["楊委員曜：不是，我剛才是問假如是用機車，你們多久會發現這種違規？"],["彭部長啓明：請我們很會抓的組長回答一下。"],["楊委員曜：因為這個事情還滿離譜的，我以為是都是卡車，就是進出，可能比較沒有那麼容易發現，假如也有機車的情況，應該是很快發現才對。"],["許組長正雄：是，報告委員，其實它有很多種樣態，有汽車也有機車。"],["楊委員曜：對，我知道。"],["許組長正雄：然後甚至也有那種我們叫做小蜜蜂的，所以其實很多樣態，但是我們大概都有抓過。"],["楊委員曜：都有抓過？我現在的意思是假如它是卡車對卡車，卡車進出堆置場是比較合理嘛！對不對？那摩托車這樣子不會很容易發現嗎？"],["許組長正雄：報告委員，我們在抓犯罪行為的時候，大部分都是從他們場內自行的監控系統或從內外帳查到的，如果要實質我們自己去查可能不是很容易。"],["楊委員曜：我現在不是說你們查，我是說譬如這個部分是歸堆置場的人查嗎？還是地方政府查？不是你們查，那誰查？"],["許組長正雄：主要是因為我們現在大概都是透過檢警環聯合查緝的平臺才能夠查到這種違規行為。"],["楊委員曜：所以就是不是常態性的監控可以看出來的，必須要聯合稽查的時候。"],["許組長正雄：將來如果智慧圍籬建廠就比較有機會。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我有聽同仁跟我報告過，就是他們有同仁會用AI的方式去算、去撈出來，但是那個都要人、都需要時間。"],["楊委員曜：都是要人工啦！"],["彭部長啓明：要人工，現在導入AI之後有加快，我們希望把它加快，而且未來如果明年開始有這個計畫的話，可以無縫接軌，抓的速度會更快。"],["楊委員曜：剛剛有回答說假如AI智慧圍籬系統建置以後就比較容易抓到，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["楊委員曜：我們在2023年就已經有建置11處，這一次發生事件的新北跟桃園已經有建置了嗎？這兩個有沒有在11處裡？"],["顏署長旭明：新北那個應該是3年前的事啦！"],["楊委員曜：就是還沒有建置之前？"],["顏署長旭明：對，但是實際上因為我們有很多判斷的依據，那個地方為什麼進出比較頻繁或者是奇怪，我們就會去看。剛才組長特別提到的，我們進去看的時候，會整個把它扣押，含它的所有攝影機，我們再把它回溯去調查這件事情，才發現有的是車子、有的是機車。"],["楊委員曜：所以有一些案例其實是3年前的事，回算3年前就是我們AI智慧圍籬還沒有設置完成？"],["顏署長旭明：是，目前的智慧圍籬……這個講也沒有關係，大概是在比較中南部……"],["楊委員曜：不方便講就不要講。"],["顏署長旭明：是。"],["楊委員曜：現在大概以中南部的建置比較早一點啦！"],["顏署長旭明：是，我們陸續很快會……"],["楊委員曜：不過我看資料，我們在明年大概會花23.5億。"],["顏署長旭明：明年大概5億，23.5億是4年。"],["楊委員曜：是總total。"],["顏署長旭明：是。"],["楊委員曜：所以並不是明年就可以建置完全臺灣耶！"],["顏署長旭明：並不是，但是明年開始廢棄物清理法第十條之一，可以將警政系統及其他交通部的eTag整合進來，其實那個量瞬間會是很大的。"],["楊委員曜：可以整合進來是不是？"],["顏署長旭明：是。"],["楊委員曜：我這裡剛好有一個疑問，署長剛剛講的是整合嘛！我問一下，為什麼沒有辦法利用它現有的？你懂我的意思嗎？"],["顏署長旭明：是。"],["楊委員曜：因為個整個公路體系應該都有eTag跟車牌辨識的系統嘛！為什麼沒有辦法直接……"],["顏署長旭明：現在是因為個資法的關係，如果我們要運用的話就要有法令的依據，所以我們在修廢清法的時候就把我們可以去用這一些資料修到裡面來。"],["楊委員曜：就是我們以後還是可以用公路體系的資料，可是它監控的範圍跟角度跟我們不一樣，是不是這樣子？"],["顏署長旭明：對，但是它……"],["楊委員曜：所以我們才要另外花錢，要不然我們就利用它現有的嘛！是這樣子嗎？"],["顏署長旭明：是，經過大家功能不同的交叉比對，我們又發展一個AI智慧判識的邏輯出來。"],["楊委員曜：好，時間的關係，我最後問一個，我直接問部長，環境部在什麼時候提出手機回收的獎勵金跟擴大回收管道？什麼時候？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：我們現在要公告的話應該是明年開始，有要求他們循環率要15%。"],["楊委員曜：所以獎金的制度是明年才開始？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：不過這個部分不一定有獎金，我們是規定回收，如果是要回收，或許業者會提供一些回饋。"],["楊委員曜：對，為什麼這麼重視這個問題呢？就是因為我們的回收率真的太低了，12%而已嘛！是不是？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：對。"],["楊委員曜：12%是表示假如說我們每一年銷售500萬部手機，就大概有380萬支手機是沒有回收再利用，因為是這樣子，有回收才有再利用的可能，而且手機再利用的價值跟各面向都是很重要的事情，所以我想這個也是為什麼今天特別特別必須要提出討論城市採礦的問題，我們不要把可以採的礦丟掉，這個我想是部裡面的責任，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["楊委員曜：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝楊曜委員發言，謝謝部長。","鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","本日會議詢答全部結束，委員盧縣一所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員盧縣一書面質詢：","議程","邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。","請環境部、經濟部說明：","「城市採礦」是指自都市廢棄物中回收具經濟價值資源，以降低對天然礦產依賴，目前制度如何推動由城市電子廢棄物礦產回收資源循環利用？"],["主席：現在作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢，委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者從其所定，專題報告議程到此結束，現在休息。下午兩點在本會議室進行噪音管制法第二條、二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案計12案之逐條討論，非法案相關列席人員可先行離席。現在休息，謝謝。","休息（13時7分）","繼續開會（14時3分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-8","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","劉建國","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","林淑芬","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","盧縣一","牛煦庭","張智倫"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2025-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1149201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、內政部、農業部、交通部、行政院公共工程委員會就「非法棄置\n到城市採礦：檢討環境部環境管理署執法痛點與城市採礦推動策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、繼續審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育\n敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音\n管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第\n二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第\n二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員林倩綺等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二條、第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正\n草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149201_00003"}}}