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801.154, \"end\": 801.455, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"志\", \"start\": 801.455, \"end\": 801.555, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 801.555, \"end\": 801.575, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 801.575, \"end\": 801.595, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 801.595, \"end\": 801.695, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 801.695, \"end\": 801.775, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 801.775, \"end\": 801.795, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,898 --> 00:00:06,761\n好謝謝主席有請院長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長農業部長備詢郭委員好委員長早\n\n2\n00:00:23,230 --> 00:00:38,521\n兩位好我想今天早上我想先請教一下這個院長的感想這個NCC人事統一權又全數被封殺全部被杯葛這已經是延宕多時了你對這樣子的一個結果你有什麼樣的感想行政院感到非常的遺憾\n\n3\n00:00:39,929 --> 00:00:54,766\nNCC通船會它是一個獨立機關它在這個專業學士跟實務經驗上我們在這個領域找了各方的人才當作被同意人進來當大院來行使同意權\n\n4\n00:00:56,192 --> 00:01:19,180\n未來這個通傳會他要促進媒體的自主對於廣電衛星內容人事制度各種的管理都必須要他來從事而且很重要的對內容的管理還有對兒童安全兒少安全那大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選可是我們送出來了卻連一個都沒有\n\n5\n00:01:20,485 --> 00:01:44,278\n難道他們是會一無是處嗎難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎結果是黨議凌駕一切如果這樣的結果讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過行政院提出的人選一定被封殺那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢\n\n6\n00:01:45,492 --> 00:02:07,374\n未來中選會我們提出的人選各方來建議的人選我們送出來了只有在野黨的會通過行政院的被封殺像今天這個樣子那會造成歷史的大錯誰都不敢冒這個風險所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信完全沒有合作基礎我非常非常的\n\n7\n00:02:08,393 --> 00:02:20,102\n非常非常的遺憾不要說行政院沒有遞出感染資我把整個感染源的一半都遞出來了結果沒有得到任何善意的回應我覺得這個是讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式\n\n8\n00:02:20,592 --> 00:02:49,463\n好我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見啦因為有許多重要的一些業務其實也完全的被停擺當中喔好那進入到我今天想要質詢這個農業部的一個主題啦那但是在這裡還是要給我們的農業部還有我們的中央以及我們第一線的房檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵我們在最短的時間其實這個危機處理拆彈成功喔但是是階段性的一個成功對於這次的非洲豬瘟的部分來說那要給你們更多的支持跟鼓勵啦\n\n9\n00:02:50,203 --> 00:03:07,385\n但是呢其實這次的非洲豬瘟的一個事件當然也凸顯了一個問題也就是全台灣總共大概有五千位的這個獸醫師但是呢在真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師包含所謂的醫師佐大概只有百分之五點七五那只有三百五十二人\n\n10\n00:03:07,785 --> 00:03:27,962\n其實他們要管理很多很多包含三四十間的所謂的農場或者是牧場那另外呢他一個人可能要負責上萬隻的一個動物那麼最終最像這次的這個非洲豬瘟這樣子的一個狀況之下有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工或者是他們直接請所謂的醫事所來做這個投藥的一個動作\n\n11\n00:03:30,564 --> 00:03:50,275\n我想這個凸顯到了一個就是我們的疾病當動物的疾病沒有被專業的一個診斷跟通報那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的一個隱憂這是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的一個警訊但是我想法律明明有規定這個牧場一定要有所謂的特約的獸醫師但是問題是大部分都是只是掛名\n\n12\n00:03:50,875 --> 00:04:11,800\n大部分只是掛名那政府沒有一個查核的一個機制我們怎麼知道這些所謂的特約的獸醫師他們的尋訪他們的尋查有沒有被落實而更深層的就是教育上的一個問題我所謂的教育上的問題因為有很多受到所謂的獸醫教育的人才他們可能畢業之後他們希望能夠往都市從業\n\n13\n00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:35,789\n都是所謂的臨床寵物這樣子的一個這個從事的一個行業所以真正願意留在所謂的牧場的人是少之又少為什麼因為工作環境不佳再加上他們的薪水其實是低的我看到有一個粉專他在披露所謂的一個這個所謂的特約的這個獸醫師他管一個這個豬農的一個場域\n\n14\n00:04:39,290 --> 00:05:03,975\n三萬六三萬六不是一個月三萬六是一年一年三萬六千戶這樣子誘因這麼低我們怎麼能夠留得住人才這是一個問題再來我看到這個是第一個防線有那個防線但是這個防線到底是虛的是空的還是實的其實值得我們去深思第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全台的防治所跟動保處\n\n15\n00:05:04,815 --> 00:05:31,456\n的所謂的基層的獸醫師這些公職的獸醫師為什麼我要這麼講因為他們可能要負責所謂的鹿島的動物鹿殺的動物他可能還要負責檢疫的工作他可能還要面臨所謂的人要去評估人道安樂這樣子的一個措施的同時他要背負很多的社會輿論的一個壓力還有人情上的一個事故那麼連所謂的在評估的同時他沒有時間\n\n16\n00:05:32,777 --> 00:05:52,407\n在時間緊迫人力需求是完全匯乏的情況之下他有可能就有悲劇我講到2016年的這個在新屋收容所的這一線的簡訊收益師他自殺自殺的事件他在遺書當中他特別寫到喔他寫說末端的資源人力不足\n\n17\n00:05:53,007 --> 00:06:21,596\n源頭的管理管制工作沒有辦法做好流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難這是他一書上寫的這點出什麼樣的一個問題很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人但是很少人知道他們面臨沒有人力沒有資源沒有心理支援的狀況之下每天可能要面對很多的生死他們也被迫在這樣子的一個體制下能夠要做\n\n18\n00:06:22,296 --> 00:06:35,402\n缺口當中是最難的一個決定好這是一點另外一個動物的悲劇是前一陣子我不曉得我們的部長有沒有看到那麼有一個民眾的他去檢舉了嘉義市因為這不當飼養的飼主\n\n19\n00:06:37,463 --> 00:06:56,259\n他的老狗那麼他隔籠跟他跟這隻老狗來做互動他通報了所謂的這個地方的動保處那麼動保處隨即當然就將這隻狗摸入那你知道狗狗其實他有自己本身防衛的那樣子的一個天性他被人捕捉到\n\n20\n00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:16,491\n陌生的地方他一定會吃鴨咧嘴他一定會吠叫即使他已經是十幾歲的老狗但是他長期的被虐待等到這一位所謂的檢舉人他第二天要到這個動保處他要去領養這隻狗的時候這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉盡所\n\n21\n00:07:16,991 --> 00:07:43,840\n他就已經被安樂了我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的他們在沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理的時間緊迫之下做出了有爭議性的行為之後我們沒有要檢討這位一線的收益師我想這基層的公職收益師他們已經承受太大的壓力但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口誰要來補\n\n22\n00:07:45,040 --> 00:08:06,190\n那麼我想在沒有時間的一個判斷之下做出這樣子令人遺憾的一個決定導致這隻狗狗這隻老狗原本他是可以有幸福非常渺茫的機會但是他前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人\n\n23\n00:08:06,910 --> 00:08:22,756\n是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師\n\n24\n00:08:24,416 --> 00:08:34,324\n剛剛有說全台灣有五千多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到一千人那現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對\n\n25\n00:08:39,528 --> 00:08:55,494\n好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農\n\n26\n00:08:57,715 --> 00:09:20,727\n還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的\n\n27\n00:09:21,707 --> 00:09:46,909\n到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長\n\n28\n00:09:48,310 --> 00:10:05,746\n謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是累爆了那我們雖然說有一些不開業獎金但是獎金\n\n29\n00:10:06,807 --> 00:10:24,719\n並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位\n\n30\n00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:43,881\n他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理你剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入\n\n31\n00:10:44,562 --> 00:11:11,324\n要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的\n\n32\n00:11:11,664 --> 00:11:31,618\n如果讓整個所有的體系是跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範\n\n33\n00:11:32,932 --> 00:12:01,283\n好因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了那我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前這個人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症喔有特寵症都出事了那沒有特寵症的思煩的問題那個又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題喔那我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂為什麼我這樣講二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在\n\n34\n00:12:02,543 --> 00:12:14,253\n到一直現在我們還是發現而且更惡質的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了聲帶那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了\n\n35\n00:12:20,458 --> 00:12:47,932\n其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能再生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現\n\n36\n00:12:48,772 --> 00:13:17,371\n我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一趴非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘\n\n37\n00:13:18,972 --> 00:13:21,795\n謝謝國務卿委員的所取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝國務卿委員謝謝卓院長相關部委書長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員質詢已書面提出\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1898\t6761\t好謝謝主席有請院長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長農業部長備詢郭委員好委員長早\n23230\t38521\t兩位好我想今天早上我想先請教一下這個院長的感想這個NCC人事統一權又全數被封殺全部被杯葛這已經是延宕多時了你對這樣子的一個結果你有什麼樣的感想行政院感到非常的遺憾\n39929\t54766\tNCC通船會它是一個獨立機關它在這個專業學士跟實務經驗上我們在這個領域找了各方的人才當作被同意人進來當大院來行使同意權\n56192\t79180\t未來這個通傳會他要促進媒體的自主對於廣電衛星內容人事制度各種的管理都必須要他來從事而且很重要的對內容的管理還有對兒童安全兒少安全那大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選可是我們送出來了卻連一個都沒有\n80485\t104278\t難道他們是會一無是處嗎難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎結果是黨議凌駕一切如果這樣的結果讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過行政院提出的人選一定被封殺那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢\n105492\t127374\t未來中選會我們提出的人選各方來建議的人選我們送出來了只有在野黨的會通過行政院的被封殺像今天這個樣子那會造成歷史的大錯誰都不敢冒這個風險所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信完全沒有合作基礎我非常非常的\n128393\t140102\t非常非常的遺憾不要說行政院沒有遞出感染資我把整個感染源的一半都遞出來了結果沒有得到任何善意的回應我覺得這個是讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式\n140592\t169463\t好我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見啦因為有許多重要的一些業務其實也完全的被停擺當中喔好那進入到我今天想要質詢這個農業部的一個主題啦那但是在這裡還是要給我們的農業部還有我們的中央以及我們第一線的房檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵我們在最短的時間其實這個危機處理拆彈成功喔但是是階段性的一個成功對於這次的非洲豬瘟的部分來說那要給你們更多的支持跟鼓勵啦\n170203\t187385\t但是呢其實這次的非洲豬瘟的一個事件當然也凸顯了一個問題也就是全台灣總共大概有五千位的這個獸醫師但是呢在真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師包含所謂的醫師佐大概只有百分之五點七五那只有三百五十二人\n187785\t207962\t其實他們要管理很多很多包含三四十間的所謂的農場或者是牧場那另外呢他一個人可能要負責上萬隻的一個動物那麼最終最像這次的這個非洲豬瘟這樣子的一個狀況之下有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工或者是他們直接請所謂的醫事所來做這個投藥的一個動作\n210564\t230275\t我想這個凸顯到了一個就是我們的疾病當動物的疾病沒有被專業的一個診斷跟通報那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的一個隱憂這是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的一個警訊但是我想法律明明有規定這個牧場一定要有所謂的特約的獸醫師但是問題是大部分都是只是掛名\n230875\t251800\t大部分只是掛名那政府沒有一個查核的一個機制我們怎麼知道這些所謂的特約的獸醫師他們的尋訪他們的尋查有沒有被落實而更深層的就是教育上的一個問題我所謂的教育上的問題因為有很多受到所謂的獸醫教育的人才他們可能畢業之後他們希望能夠往都市從業\n253760\t275789\t都是所謂的臨床寵物這樣子的一個這個從事的一個行業所以真正願意留在所謂的牧場的人是少之又少為什麼因為工作環境不佳再加上他們的薪水其實是低的我看到有一個粉專他在披露所謂的一個這個所謂的特約的這個獸醫師他管一個這個豬農的一個場域\n279290\t303975\t三萬六三萬六不是一個月三萬六是一年一年三萬六千戶這樣子誘因這麼低我們怎麼能夠留得住人才這是一個問題再來我看到這個是第一個防線有那個防線但是這個防線到底是虛的是空的還是實的其實值得我們去深思第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全台的防治所跟動保處\n304815\t331456\t的所謂的基層的獸醫師這些公職的獸醫師為什麼我要這麼講因為他們可能要負責所謂的鹿島的動物鹿殺的動物他可能還要負責檢疫的工作他可能還要面臨所謂的人要去評估人道安樂這樣子的一個措施的同時他要背負很多的社會輿論的一個壓力還有人情上的一個事故那麼連所謂的在評估的同時他沒有時間\n332777\t352407\t在時間緊迫人力需求是完全匯乏的情況之下他有可能就有悲劇我講到2016年的這個在新屋收容所的這一線的簡訊收益師他自殺自殺的事件他在遺書當中他特別寫到喔他寫說末端的資源人力不足\n353007\t381596\t源頭的管理管制工作沒有辦法做好流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難這是他一書上寫的這點出什麼樣的一個問題很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人但是很少人知道他們面臨沒有人力沒有資源沒有心理支援的狀況之下每天可能要面對很多的生死他們也被迫在這樣子的一個體制下能夠要做\n382296\t395402\t缺口當中是最難的一個決定好這是一點另外一個動物的悲劇是前一陣子我不曉得我們的部長有沒有看到那麼有一個民眾的他去檢舉了嘉義市因為這不當飼養的飼主\n397463\t416259\t他的老狗那麼他隔籠跟他跟這隻老狗來做互動他通報了所謂的這個地方的動保處那麼動保處隨即當然就將這隻狗摸入那你知道狗狗其實他有自己本身防衛的那樣子的一個天性他被人捕捉到\n417320\t436491\t陌生的地方他一定會吃鴨咧嘴他一定會吠叫即使他已經是十幾歲的老狗但是他長期的被虐待等到這一位所謂的檢舉人他第二天要到這個動保處他要去領養這隻狗的時候這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉盡所\n436991\t463840\t他就已經被安樂了我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的他們在沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理的時間緊迫之下做出了有爭議性的行為之後我們沒有要檢討這位一線的收益師我想這基層的公職收益師他們已經承受太大的壓力但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口誰要來補\n465040\t486190\t那麼我想在沒有時間的一個判斷之下做出這樣子令人遺憾的一個決定導致這隻狗狗這隻老狗原本他是可以有幸福非常渺茫的機會但是他前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人\n486910\t502756\t是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師\n504416\t514324\t剛剛有說全台灣有五千多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到一千人那現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對\n519528\t535494\t好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農\n537715\t560727\t還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的\n561707\t586909\t到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長\n588310\t605746\t謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是累爆了那我們雖然說有一些不開業獎金但是獎金\n606807\t624719\t並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位\n626880\t643881\t他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理你剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入\n644562\t671324\t要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的\n671664\t691618\t如果讓整個所有的體系是跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範\n692932\t721283\t好 因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了那我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前這個人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症喔有特寵症都出事了那沒有特寵症的思煩的問題那個又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題喔那我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂為什麼我這樣講二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在\n722543\t734253\t到一直現在我們還是發現而且更惡質的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了聲帶那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了\n740458\t767932\t其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能再生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現\n768772\t797371\t我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一趴非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘\n798972\t801795\t謝謝國務卿委員的所取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝國務卿委員 謝謝卓院長 相關部委書長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員 質詢已書面提出\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請院長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長農業部長備詢郭委員好委員長早\n兩位好我想今天早上我想先請教一下這個院長的感想這個NCC人事統一權又全數被封殺全部被杯葛這已經是延宕多時了你對這樣子的一個結果你有什麼樣的感想行政院感到非常的遺憾\nNCC通船會它是一個獨立機關它在這個專業學士跟實務經驗上我們在這個領域找了各方的人才當作被同意人進來當大院來行使同意權\n未來這個通傳會他要促進媒體的自主對於廣電衛星內容人事制度各種的管理都必須要他來從事而且很重要的對內容的管理還有對兒童安全兒少安全那大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選可是我們送出來了卻連一個都沒有\n難道他們是會一無是處嗎難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎結果是黨議凌駕一切如果這樣的結果讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過行政院提出的人選一定被封殺那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢\n未來中選會我們提出的人選各方來建議的人選我們送出來了只有在野黨的會通過行政院的被封殺像今天這個樣子那會造成歷史的大錯誰都不敢冒這個風險所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信完全沒有合作基礎我非常非常的\n非常非常的遺憾不要說行政院沒有遞出感染資我把整個感染源的一半都遞出來了結果沒有得到任何善意的回應我覺得這個是讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式\n好我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見啦因為有許多重要的一些業務其實也完全的被停擺當中喔好那進入到我今天想要質詢這個農業部的一個主題啦那但是在這裡還是要給我們的農業部還有我們的中央以及我們第一線的房檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵我們在最短的時間其實這個危機處理拆彈成功喔但是是階段性的一個成功對於這次的非洲豬瘟的部分來說那要給你們更多的支持跟鼓勵啦\n但是呢其實這次的非洲豬瘟的一個事件當然也凸顯了一個問題也就是全台灣總共大概有五千位的這個獸醫師但是呢在真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師包含所謂的醫師佐大概只有百分之五點七五那只有三百五十二人\n其實他們要管理很多很多包含三四十間的所謂的農場或者是牧場那另外呢他一個人可能要負責上萬隻的一個動物那麼最終最像這次的這個非洲豬瘟這樣子的一個狀況之下有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工或者是他們直接請所謂的醫事所來做這個投藥的一個動作\n我想這個凸顯到了一個就是我們的疾病當動物的疾病沒有被專業的一個診斷跟通報那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的一個隱憂這是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的一個警訊但是我想法律明明有規定這個牧場一定要有所謂的特約的獸醫師但是問題是大部分都是只是掛名\n大部分只是掛名那政府沒有一個查核的一個機制我們怎麼知道這些所謂的特約的獸醫師他們的尋訪他們的尋查有沒有被落實而更深層的就是教育上的一個問題我所謂的教育上的問題因為有很多受到所謂的獸醫教育的人才他們可能畢業之後他們希望能夠往都市從業\n都是所謂的臨床寵物這樣子的一個這個從事的一個行業所以真正願意留在所謂的牧場的人是少之又少為什麼因為工作環境不佳再加上他們的薪水其實是低的我看到有一個粉專他在披露所謂的一個這個所謂的特約的這個獸醫師他管一個這個豬農的一個場域\n三萬六三萬六不是一個月三萬六是一年一年三萬六千戶這樣子誘因這麼低我們怎麼能夠留得住人才這是一個問題再來我看到這個是第一個防線有那個防線但是這個防線到底是虛的是空的還是實的其實值得我們去深思第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全台的防治所跟動保處\n的所謂的基層的獸醫師這些公職的獸醫師為什麼我要這麼講因為他們可能要負責所謂的鹿島的動物鹿殺的動物他可能還要負責檢疫的工作他可能還要面臨所謂的人要去評估人道安樂這樣子的一個措施的同時他要背負很多的社會輿論的一個壓力還有人情上的一個事故那麼連所謂的在評估的同時他沒有時間\n在時間緊迫人力需求是完全匯乏的情況之下他有可能就有悲劇我講到2016年的這個在新屋收容所的這一線的簡訊收益師他自殺自殺的事件他在遺書當中他特別寫到喔他寫說末端的資源人力不足\n源頭的管理管制工作沒有辦法做好流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難這是他一書上寫的這點出什麼樣的一個問題很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人但是很少人知道他們面臨沒有人力沒有資源沒有心理支援的狀況之下每天可能要面對很多的生死他們也被迫在這樣子的一個體制下能夠要做\n缺口當中是最難的一個決定好這是一點另外一個動物的悲劇是前一陣子我不曉得我們的部長有沒有看到那麼有一個民眾的他去檢舉了嘉義市因為這不當飼養的飼主\n他的老狗那麼他隔籠跟他跟這隻老狗來做互動他通報了所謂的這個地方的動保處那麼動保處隨即當然就將這隻狗摸入那你知道狗狗其實他有自己本身防衛的那樣子的一個天性他被人捕捉到\n陌生的地方他一定會吃鴨咧嘴他一定會吠叫即使他已經是十幾歲的老狗但是他長期的被虐待等到這一位所謂的檢舉人他第二天要到這個動保處他要去領養這隻狗的時候這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉盡所\n他就已經被安樂了我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的他們在沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理的時間緊迫之下做出了有爭議性的行為之後我們沒有要檢討這位一線的收益師我想這基層的公職收益師他們已經承受太大的壓力但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口誰要來補\n那麼我想在沒有時間的一個判斷之下做出這樣子令人遺憾的一個決定導致這隻狗狗這隻老狗原本他是可以有幸福非常渺茫的機會但是他前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人\n是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師\n剛剛有說全台灣有五千多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到一千人那現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對\n好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農\n還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的\n到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長\n謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是累爆了那我們雖然說有一些不開業獎金但是獎金\n並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位\n他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理你剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入\n要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的\n如果讓整個所有的體系是跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範\n好 因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了那我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前這個人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症喔有特寵症都出事了那沒有特寵症的思煩的問題那個又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題喔那我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂為什麼我這樣講二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在\n到一直現在我們還是發現而且更惡質的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了聲帶那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了\n其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能再生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現\n我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一趴非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘\n謝謝國務卿委員的所取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝國務卿委員 謝謝卓院長 相關部委書長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員 質詢已書面提出\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.898 --> 00:06.761\n好謝謝主席有請院長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長農業部長備詢郭委員好委員長早\n\n00:23.230 --> 00:38.521\n兩位好我想今天早上我想先請教一下這個院長的感想這個NCC人事統一權又全數被封殺全部被杯葛這已經是延宕多時了你對這樣子的一個結果你有什麼樣的感想行政院感到非常的遺憾\n\n00:39.929 --> 00:54.766\nNCC通船會它是一個獨立機關它在這個專業學士跟實務經驗上我們在這個領域找了各方的人才當作被同意人進來當大院來行使同意權\n\n00:56.192 --> 01:19.180\n未來這個通傳會他要促進媒體的自主對於廣電衛星內容人事制度各種的管理都必須要他來從事而且很重要的對內容的管理還有對兒童安全兒少安全那大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選可是我們送出來了卻連一個都沒有\n\n01:20.485 --> 01:44.278\n難道他們是會一無是處嗎難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎結果是黨議凌駕一切如果這樣的結果讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過行政院提出的人選一定被封殺那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢\n\n01:45.492 --> 02:07.374\n未來中選會我們提出的人選各方來建議的人選我們送出來了只有在野黨的會通過行政院的被封殺像今天這個樣子那會造成歷史的大錯誰都不敢冒這個風險所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信完全沒有合作基礎我非常非常的\n\n02:08.393 --> 02:20.102\n非常非常的遺憾不要說行政院沒有遞出感染資我把整個感染源的一半都遞出來了結果沒有得到任何善意的回應我覺得這個是讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式\n\n02:20.592 --> 02:49.463\n好我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見啦因為有許多重要的一些業務其實也完全的被停擺當中喔好那進入到我今天想要質詢這個農業部的一個主題啦那但是在這裡還是要給我們的農業部還有我們的中央以及我們第一線的房檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵我們在最短的時間其實這個危機處理拆彈成功喔但是是階段性的一個成功對於這次的非洲豬瘟的部分來說那要給你們更多的支持跟鼓勵啦\n\n02:50.203 --> 03:07.385\n但是呢其實這次的非洲豬瘟的一個事件當然也凸顯了一個問題也就是全台灣總共大概有五千位的這個獸醫師但是呢在真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師包含所謂的醫師佐大概只有百分之五點七五那只有三百五十二人\n\n03:07.785 --> 03:27.962\n其實他們要管理很多很多包含三四十間的所謂的農場或者是牧場那另外呢他一個人可能要負責上萬隻的一個動物那麼最終最像這次的這個非洲豬瘟這樣子的一個狀況之下有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工或者是他們直接請所謂的醫事所來做這個投藥的一個動作\n\n03:30.564 --> 03:50.275\n我想這個凸顯到了一個就是我們的疾病當動物的疾病沒有被專業的一個診斷跟通報那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的一個隱憂這是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的一個警訊但是我想法律明明有規定這個牧場一定要有所謂的特約的獸醫師但是問題是大部分都是只是掛名\n\n03:50.875 --> 04:11.800\n大部分只是掛名那政府沒有一個查核的一個機制我們怎麼知道這些所謂的特約的獸醫師他們的尋訪他們的尋查有沒有被落實而更深層的就是教育上的一個問題我所謂的教育上的問題因為有很多受到所謂的獸醫教育的人才他們可能畢業之後他們希望能夠往都市從業\n\n04:13.760 --> 04:35.789\n都是所謂的臨床寵物這樣子的一個這個從事的一個行業所以真正願意留在所謂的牧場的人是少之又少為什麼因為工作環境不佳再加上他們的薪水其實是低的我看到有一個粉專他在披露所謂的一個這個所謂的特約的這個獸醫師他管一個這個豬農的一個場域\n\n04:39.290 --> 05:03.975\n三萬六三萬六不是一個月三萬六是一年一年三萬六千戶這樣子誘因這麼低我們怎麼能夠留得住人才這是一個問題再來我看到這個是第一個防線有那個防線但是這個防線到底是虛的是空的還是實的其實值得我們去深思第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全台的防治所跟動保處\n\n05:04.815 --> 05:31.456\n的所謂的基層的獸醫師這些公職的獸醫師為什麼我要這麼講因為他們可能要負責所謂的鹿島的動物鹿殺的動物他可能還要負責檢疫的工作他可能還要面臨所謂的人要去評估人道安樂這樣子的一個措施的同時他要背負很多的社會輿論的一個壓力還有人情上的一個事故那麼連所謂的在評估的同時他沒有時間\n\n05:32.777 --> 05:52.407\n在時間緊迫人力需求是完全匯乏的情況之下他有可能就有悲劇我講到2016年的這個在新屋收容所的這一線的簡訊收益師他自殺自殺的事件他在遺書當中他特別寫到喔他寫說末端的資源人力不足\n\n05:53.007 --> 06:21.596\n源頭的管理管制工作沒有辦法做好流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難這是他一書上寫的這點出什麼樣的一個問題很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人但是很少人知道他們面臨沒有人力沒有資源沒有心理支援的狀況之下每天可能要面對很多的生死他們也被迫在這樣子的一個體制下能夠要做\n\n06:22.296 --> 06:35.402\n缺口當中是最難的一個決定好這是一點另外一個動物的悲劇是前一陣子我不曉得我們的部長有沒有看到那麼有一個民眾的他去檢舉了嘉義市因為這不當飼養的飼主\n\n06:37.463 --> 06:56.259\n他的老狗那麼他隔籠跟他跟這隻老狗來做互動他通報了所謂的這個地方的動保處那麼動保處隨即當然就將這隻狗摸入那你知道狗狗其實他有自己本身防衛的那樣子的一個天性他被人捕捉到\n\n06:57.320 --> 07:16.491\n陌生的地方他一定會吃鴨咧嘴他一定會吠叫即使他已經是十幾歲的老狗但是他長期的被虐待等到這一位所謂的檢舉人他第二天要到這個動保處他要去領養這隻狗的時候這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉盡所\n\n07:16.991 --> 07:43.840\n他就已經被安樂了我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的他們在沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理的時間緊迫之下做出了有爭議性的行為之後我們沒有要檢討這位一線的收益師我想這基層的公職收益師他們已經承受太大的壓力但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口誰要來補\n\n07:45.040 --> 08:06.190\n那麼我想在沒有時間的一個判斷之下做出這樣子令人遺憾的一個決定導致這隻狗狗這隻老狗原本他是可以有幸福非常渺茫的機會但是他前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人\n\n08:06.910 --> 08:22.756\n是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師\n\n08:24.416 --> 08:34.324\n剛剛有說全台灣有五千多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到一千人那現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對\n\n08:39.528 --> 08:55.494\n好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農\n\n08:57.715 --> 09:20.727\n還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的\n\n09:21.707 --> 09:46.909\n到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長\n\n09:48.310 --> 10:05.746\n謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是累爆了那我們雖然說有一些不開業獎金但是獎金\n\n10:06.807 --> 10:24.719\n並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位\n\n10:26.880 --> 10:43.881\n他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理你剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入\n\n10:44.562 --> 11:11.324\n要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的\n\n11:11.664 --> 11:31.618\n如果讓整個所有的體系是跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範\n\n11:32.932 --> 12:01.283\n好因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了那我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前這個人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症喔有特寵症都出事了那沒有特寵症的思煩的問題那個又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題喔那我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂為什麼我這樣講二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在\n\n12:02.543 --> 12:14.253\n到一直現在我們還是發現而且更惡質的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了聲帶那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了\n\n12:20.458 --> 12:47.932\n其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能再生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現\n\n12:48.772 --> 13:17.371\n我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一趴非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘\n\n13:18.972 --> 13:21.795\n謝謝國務卿委員的所取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝國務卿委員謝謝卓院長相關部委書長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員質詢已書面提出\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.898,"end":6.761,"text":"好謝謝主席有請院長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長農業部長備詢郭委員好委員長早"},{"start":23.23,"end":38.521,"text":"兩位好我想今天早上我想先請教一下這個院長的感想這個NCC人事統一權又全數被封殺全部被杯葛這已經是延宕多時了你對這樣子的一個結果你有什麼樣的感想行政院感到非常的遺憾"},{"start":39.929,"end":54.766,"text":"NCC通船會它是一個獨立機關它在這個專業學士跟實務經驗上我們在這個領域找了各方的人才當作被同意人進來當大院來行使同意權"},{"start":56.192,"end":79.18,"text":"未來這個通傳會他要促進媒體的自主對於廣電衛星內容人事制度各種的管理都必須要他來從事而且很重要的對內容的管理還有對兒童安全兒少安全那大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選可是我們送出來了卻連一個都沒有"},{"start":80.485,"end":104.278,"text":"難道他們是會一無是處嗎難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎結果是黨議凌駕一切如果這樣的結果讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過行政院提出的人選一定被封殺那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢"},{"start":105.492,"end":127.374,"text":"未來中選會我們提出的人選各方來建議的人選我們送出來了只有在野黨的會通過行政院的被封殺像今天這個樣子那會造成歷史的大錯誰都不敢冒這個風險所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信完全沒有合作基礎我非常非常的"},{"start":128.393,"end":140.102,"text":"非常非常的遺憾不要說行政院沒有遞出感染資我把整個感染源的一半都遞出來了結果沒有得到任何善意的回應我覺得這個是讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式"},{"start":140.592,"end":169.463,"text":"好我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見啦因為有許多重要的一些業務其實也完全的被停擺當中喔好那進入到我今天想要質詢這個農業部的一個主題啦那但是在這裡還是要給我們的農業部還有我們的中央以及我們第一線的房檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵我們在最短的時間其實這個危機處理拆彈成功喔但是是階段性的一個成功對於這次的非洲豬瘟的部分來說那要給你們更多的支持跟鼓勵啦"},{"start":170.203,"end":187.385,"text":"但是呢其實這次的非洲豬瘟的一個事件當然也凸顯了一個問題也就是全台灣總共大概有五千位的這個獸醫師但是呢在真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師包含所謂的醫師佐大概只有百分之五點七五那只有三百五十二人"},{"start":187.785,"end":207.962,"text":"其實他們要管理很多很多包含三四十間的所謂的農場或者是牧場那另外呢他一個人可能要負責上萬隻的一個動物那麼最終最像這次的這個非洲豬瘟這樣子的一個狀況之下有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工或者是他們直接請所謂的醫事所來做這個投藥的一個動作"},{"start":210.564,"end":230.275,"text":"我想這個凸顯到了一個就是我們的疾病當動物的疾病沒有被專業的一個診斷跟通報那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的一個隱憂這是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的一個警訊但是我想法律明明有規定這個牧場一定要有所謂的特約的獸醫師但是問題是大部分都是只是掛名"},{"start":230.875,"end":251.8,"text":"大部分只是掛名那政府沒有一個查核的一個機制我們怎麼知道這些所謂的特約的獸醫師他們的尋訪他們的尋查有沒有被落實而更深層的就是教育上的一個問題我所謂的教育上的問題因為有很多受到所謂的獸醫教育的人才他們可能畢業之後他們希望能夠往都市從業"},{"start":253.76,"end":275.789,"text":"都是所謂的臨床寵物這樣子的一個這個從事的一個行業所以真正願意留在所謂的牧場的人是少之又少為什麼因為工作環境不佳再加上他們的薪水其實是低的我看到有一個粉專他在披露所謂的一個這個所謂的特約的這個獸醫師他管一個這個豬農的一個場域"},{"start":279.29,"end":303.975,"text":"三萬六三萬六不是一個月三萬六是一年一年三萬六千戶這樣子誘因這麼低我們怎麼能夠留得住人才這是一個問題再來我看到這個是第一個防線有那個防線但是這個防線到底是虛的是空的還是實的其實值得我們去深思第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全台的防治所跟動保處"},{"start":304.815,"end":331.456,"text":"的所謂的基層的獸醫師這些公職的獸醫師為什麼我要這麼講因為他們可能要負責所謂的鹿島的動物鹿殺的動物他可能還要負責檢疫的工作他可能還要面臨所謂的人要去評估人道安樂這樣子的一個措施的同時他要背負很多的社會輿論的一個壓力還有人情上的一個事故那麼連所謂的在評估的同時他沒有時間"},{"start":332.777,"end":352.407,"text":"在時間緊迫人力需求是完全匯乏的情況之下他有可能就有悲劇我講到2016年的這個在新屋收容所的這一線的簡訊收益師他自殺自殺的事件他在遺書當中他特別寫到喔他寫說末端的資源人力不足"},{"start":353.007,"end":381.596,"text":"源頭的管理管制工作沒有辦法做好流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難這是他一書上寫的這點出什麼樣的一個問題很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人但是很少人知道他們面臨沒有人力沒有資源沒有心理支援的狀況之下每天可能要面對很多的生死他們也被迫在這樣子的一個體制下能夠要做"},{"start":382.296,"end":395.402,"text":"缺口當中是最難的一個決定好這是一點另外一個動物的悲劇是前一陣子我不曉得我們的部長有沒有看到那麼有一個民眾的他去檢舉了嘉義市因為這不當飼養的飼主"},{"start":397.463,"end":416.259,"text":"他的老狗那麼他隔籠跟他跟這隻老狗來做互動他通報了所謂的這個地方的動保處那麼動保處隨即當然就將這隻狗摸入那你知道狗狗其實他有自己本身防衛的那樣子的一個天性他被人捕捉到"},{"start":417.32,"end":436.491,"text":"陌生的地方他一定會吃鴨咧嘴他一定會吠叫即使他已經是十幾歲的老狗但是他長期的被虐待等到這一位所謂的檢舉人他第二天要到這個動保處他要去領養這隻狗的時候這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉盡所"},{"start":436.991,"end":463.84,"text":"他就已經被安樂了我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的他們在沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理的時間緊迫之下做出了有爭議性的行為之後我們沒有要檢討這位一線的收益師我想這基層的公職收益師他們已經承受太大的壓力但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口誰要來補"},{"start":465.04,"end":486.19,"text":"那麼我想在沒有時間的一個判斷之下做出這樣子令人遺憾的一個決定導致這隻狗狗這隻老狗原本他是可以有幸福非常渺茫的機會但是他前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人"},{"start":486.91,"end":502.756,"text":"是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師"},{"start":504.416,"end":514.324,"text":"剛剛有說全台灣有五千多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到一千人那現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對"},{"start":519.528,"end":535.494,"text":"好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農"},{"start":537.715,"end":560.727,"text":"還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的"},{"start":561.707,"end":586.909,"text":"到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長"},{"start":588.31,"end":605.746,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是累爆了那我們雖然說有一些不開業獎金但是獎金"},{"start":606.807,"end":624.719,"text":"並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位"},{"start":626.88,"end":643.881,"text":"他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理你剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入"},{"start":644.562,"end":671.324,"text":"要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的"},{"start":671.664,"end":691.618,"text":"如果讓整個所有的體系是跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範"},{"start":692.932,"end":721.283,"text":"好 因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了那我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前這個人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症喔有特寵症都出事了那沒有特寵症的思煩的問題那個又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題喔那我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂為什麼我這樣講二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在"},{"start":722.543,"end":734.253,"text":"到一直現在我們還是發現而且更惡質的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了聲帶那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了"},{"start":740.458,"end":767.932,"text":"其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能再生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現"},{"start":768.772,"end":797.371,"text":"我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一趴非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘"},{"start":798.972,"end":801.795,"text":"謝謝國務卿委員的所取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝國務卿委員 謝謝卓院長 相關部委書長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員 質詢已書面提出"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":328,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（15時29分）謝謝主席，有請院長跟農業部部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、農業部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：院長好、兩位好。我想先請教一下院長的感想，今天早上NCC人事同意權又全數被封殺、全部被杯葛，這已經是延宕多時了，你對這樣的結果有什麼樣的感想？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院感到非常的遺憾，NCC（通傳會）是一個獨立機關，在專業學識與實務經驗上，我們在這個領域找了各方人才當作被提名人進來讓大院行使同意權，未來通傳會是要促進媒體自主，對於廣電衛星內容、人事、制度等各種管理都必須要它來從事，而且很重要的，對內容的管理還有對兒童安全、兒少安全。大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選，可是我們送出來了，卻連一個都沒有，難道他們4位一無是處嗎？難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎？結果是黨意凌駕一切，如果是這樣的結果，讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過，行政院提出的人選一定被封殺，那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式要在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢？未來中選會我們提出的人選，各方來建議的人選，我們送出來了，只有在野黨的會通過，行政院的被封殺，像今天這個樣子，那會造成歷史的大錯，誰都不敢冒這個風險。所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信，完全沒有合作基礎，我非常非常的遺憾，不要說行政院沒有遞出橄欖枝，我把整個橄欖園的一半都遞出來了，結果沒有得到任何善意的回應，我覺得這個是要讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式。"],["郭委員昱晴：我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見，因為有許多重要的業務其實也被完全的停擺當中。","進入到我今天想要質詢農業部的主題，在這裡還是要給農業部還有中央，以及第一線防檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵，你們在最短的時間及時危機處理，拆彈成功，但是對於這次非洲豬瘟的部分來說是一個階段性的成功，要給你們更多的支持與鼓勵。","其實這次非洲豬瘟事件當然也凸顯了一個問題，也就是全臺灣總共大概有5,000位獸醫師，而真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師，包含所謂的醫師佐，大概只有5.75%，只有352人。其實他們要管理很多、很多，包含三、四十間的農場或者是牧場，另外，他們一個人可能要負責上萬隻動物，像這次非洲豬瘟這樣子的狀況之下，最終有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工，或者是他們直接請醫事佐來做投藥的動作，我想這凸顯了當動物的疾病沒有被專業的診斷跟通報，那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的隱憂，這也是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的警訊。我想法律有明文規定牧場一定要有所謂的特約獸醫師，但是問題是大部分都只是掛名，政府沒有一個查核的機制，我們怎麼知道這些特約獸醫師他們的巡訪、巡查有沒有被落實？","而更深層的就是教育上的問題，我所謂教育上的問題，因為有很多受到獸醫教育的人才，他們可能畢了業之後，他們希望能夠往都市從業，都是從事所謂臨床寵物的行業，所以真正願意留在牧場的人是少之又少，為什麼？因為工作環境不佳，再加上他們的薪水其實是低的，我看到有一個粉專在披露所謂的特約獸醫師，他管一個豬農的場域三萬六，三萬六不是一個月，三萬六是一年，一年3萬6,000元，這樣子的誘因這麼低，我們怎麼能夠留得住人才，這是一個問題。我看到這是第一個防線，有那個防線，但是這個防線到底是虛的、是空的，還是實的？其實是值得我們去深思。第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全臺的防治所跟動保處的基層獸醫師、這些公職獸醫師，為什麼我要這麼講？因為他們可能要負責所謂路倒的動物、路殺的動物，他可能還要負責檢疫工作，他可能還面臨要去評估人道安樂這樣的措施的同時，他要背負很多的社會輿論壓力以及人情世故，在評估的同時，他沒有時間，在時間緊迫、人力需求完全匱乏的情況之下，有可能就會發生悲劇。我要提的是2016年在新屋收容所一線的簡姓獸醫師自殺事件，在遺書當中他特別寫到，末端的資源、人力不足，源頭的管理、管制工作沒有辦法做好，流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難，這是他遺書上寫的，這點出什麼樣的問題？很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人，但是很少人知道他們在面臨沒有人力、沒有資源、沒有心理支援的狀況下，每天可能要面對很多的生死，他們也被迫在這樣的體制缺口當中做最難的決定，這是一點。","另外一個動物的悲劇是，我不曉得部長有沒有看到，前一陣子有一個民眾去檢舉，嘉義市有一隻被通報為飼主不當飼養的老狗，他隔籠跟這隻老狗做互動，他通報地方動保處，動保處隨即將這隻狗沒入，你知道狗狗其實有自己本身的防衛天性，牠被人捕捉到陌生的地方，牠一定會呲牙裂嘴、牠一定會吠叫，即使牠已經是十幾歲的老狗，但是牠長期被虐待，等到這位檢舉人第二天到動保處要去領養這隻狗時，這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉進所時就已經被安樂了。我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的，他們沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理，在時間緊迫之下，做出了有爭議性的行為，我們沒有要檢討這位一線的獸醫師，我想基層的公職獸醫師已經承受了太大的壓力，但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口，誰要來補？我想在沒有足夠時間能夠判斷的情況之下，做出這樣一個令人遺憾的決定，導致這隻老狗原本是可以有幸福的機會，雖然非常渺茫，但牠卻在前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了，這又是動物的悲劇。","剛剛我講的兩起事件，一個是人、是獸醫的悲劇，第二個是動物的悲劇，我想很多基層的公職獸醫師同樣也處在這種崩潰邊緣的狀況之下，而真正能夠留在所謂公職體系的公職獸醫師，剛剛有說全臺灣有五千多位獸醫師，真正能夠留在公職體系的基層獸醫師是不到一千人。農業部長你可能會說：不會，我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師，我們有給獎金。對不對？好，問題來了，6月1號之後，原本我們希望基層的獸醫師人力是要補在對的地方，但6月1號我們打開了大門，我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人，要做白臉，我們的農林漁業還有包含很多所謂的醫藥機構，這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多，或者是壓力沒有那麼大，現在也導致在現場執業的獸醫師也會往那個地方流去，所以我們打開了大門之後，我想請問的是，到底我們有沒有將公職獸醫師的資源、人力投對地方，還是投錯了地方，如果投錯了地方，我們怎麼補救？他們所面臨到的情況是職等比較低，等於是碰到疫情發生時，它叫不動其他單位，因為他們是二級的單位，這個狀況我們怎麼解？請教一下農業部部長。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員關心相關的議題，我想這次在中央應變中心，其實我也看到了非常多，特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師，我覺得他們真的是累爆了。我們雖然有不開業獎金，但是獎金並不足以支持他在這個工作上的熱忱……"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我同時啟動了相關機制，就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師在不同地方的政府安置，像在動物收容所裡面大概有148位，但是這148位……"],["郭委員昱晴：他們可能一個禮拜要工作7天，隨時待命！"],["陳部長駿季：對，這個量就太少了。相對的，要去處理你剛才講到這些動物進來以後的一些基本處置，在人力不夠的情況之下，可能做一些比較緊急的處置時就會造成一些爭議。這個部分其實我們已經列入要整體從全臺灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看，我們應該再增加還有相關的配置，後續我想會跟人總這邊來看看怎麼樣，因為防疫不只是動物還有其他的。"],["郭委員昱晴：我想人力資源要用對地方，我們不要讓所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫，防檢的人力又不足，同時在公職方面，尤其基層的公職獸醫師在收容所當中其實是孤立無援的，如果讓所有的體系跟制度完全脫節，我想最後這些所謂的特約獸醫師有可能變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具，您認同嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：現在看起來是這樣子，所以我覺得在特約獸醫師方面應該有一個更明確的規範。"],["郭委員昱晴：因為時間的關係，我只剩下2分鐘不到。再接著下來我想要提到的就是，前一陣子、兩個多禮拜之前，關於謝姓獸醫師所經營的人人犬舍，它有特種證喔，有特種證都出事了，那沒有特種證的私繁問題又是另外一部分非常大塊的問題！","我想從人人犬舍的事件我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂，為什麼我這樣講？二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在，一直到現在我們還是發現，而且更惡質的是，這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業，他把整個狗場的273隻狗狗全部去除聲帶，後來變成272隻，為什麼？有1隻死掉了。其中有九十幾隻年紀超過7歲以上是不能再當生產工具的老狗！苗栗縣政府因為抵不住輿論壓力對這位獸醫師的狗場開罰了四百八十萬九千多元；而針對他利用自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分，我們之後還是會持續追蹤。","但是我發現我們有一個很大的漏洞就在獸醫師法當中，很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照，我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理制度，這個部分我們是不是往這個方向再繼續努力、再繼續研議？還有寵物晶片的追蹤問題，這又是另外一部分非常大的問題。","今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘，我再次懇請農業部……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員長期對動保議題的關心，你剛剛提到獸醫師合理的退場機制，我會請相關單位來研議。"],["郭委員昱晴：我們繼續加油，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好！"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝，郭昱晴委員索取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室，謝謝郭昱晴委員、謝謝卓院長與相關部會首長。","接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員的質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員邱志偉書面質詢："],["主席：再接下來我們請謝龍介委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}}