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\"end\": 54.458, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"秋\", \"start\": 54.458, \"end\": 54.758, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"季\", \"start\": 54.758, \"end\": 54.978, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 54.978, \"end\": 55.218, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 55.218, \"end\": 55.398, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.398, \"end\": 55.538, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"慰\", \"start\": 55.538, \"end\": 55.939, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"靈\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 55.939, \"end\": 55.959, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 57.139, \"end\": 81.487, \"text\": \"那其中追思到了幾位其實一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的一個叫吳石那這個地方我要來請教院長就是說對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜的一個追思我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣那我相信國人同胞他一定會覺得說一邊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 57.139, \"end\": 57.579, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 57.579, \"end\": 57.739, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 57.739, \"end\": 58.64, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 58.64, 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00:01:53,146\n嘴巴講著反共保台一邊跑去追思共諜甚至於我們過去成長的背景裡面常常會看到好多標語保密防諜人人有責講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨就沒有現在的一個台灣結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰我看那個黨主席連一篇文他都懶得發但是寧願去幫共諜這樣做一個追思我不曉得\n\n5\n00:01:54,066 --> 00:02:18,315\n這個是到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨是台灣的國民黨還是北京的國民黨所以我要請教院長就是說你對於在野黨的領袖去公開的追思共諜這樣的一個追思會身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長你的態度看法怎麼樣\n\n6\n00:02:19,551 --> 00:02:35,146\n我表示遺憾因為一個中國國民黨的主席當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧無時甚至要求他的涉台人員要學習無時精神的時候竟然不避諱的去參加這個組織所舉行的這個活動會讓我們覺得\n\n7\n00:02:40,451 --> 00:03:02,970\n跟民眾的距離太遙遠了尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動表示他不在乎社會的觀感不在乎歷史的定位也不在乎對岸用這個無實的精神要來加強對台灣統戰的事實跟人民的距離實在太遙遠了\n\n8\n00:03:04,144 --> 00:03:16,016\n我認為院長這樣的一個答覆是你個人是太過於厚道我相信我們主席台上我認為我們連主席台上的副院長他一定會很大的一個感慨\n\n9\n00:03:17,097 --> 00:03:43,042\n過去江啟臣副院長他也擔任過中國國民黨的一個黨主席嘛我想你現在在那裡一定有一個感觸就是說不然你過去說馬英九也好啦還是這個韓國瑜也好啊你至少你說在蔣介石的誕辰的時候你也去獻個花去吊雞一下甚至有的甚至跑去夜領起碼會維持一個歷史上的一個一致性但是看看現在的中國國民黨的黨主席\n\n10\n00:03:46,163 --> 00:04:03,217\n我看那個蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提但是那是國民黨的家務事但問題是這轉身去向共諜致敬我看這個連蔣介石地下有知的話他會覺得他現在這些徒子徒孫他一定也不生虛虛但重點是\n\n11\n00:04:06,558 --> 00:04:19,011\n對於國人同胞的看法是說這樣的一個政黨反共的旗子還沒有放下你忠誠就先投降這個會導致整個國家的一個錯亂當院長就提到的\n\n12\n00:04:20,097 --> 00:04:45,046\n北京當然大吹大家學習無恥的一個精神對北京來講共諜他從來就不是一個罪名甚至他都認為說共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命但是相對對我們台灣而言對這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制破壞我們民主社會的一個敵人所以本集要在這個地方提醒\n\n13\n00:04:46,046 --> 00:05:05,582\n當中國用經貿宗教媒體甚至文化在滲透台灣的時候啊其實在台灣的每一個角落我們有這樣的一個風險的時候台灣各個政黨的領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識所以啊院長這樣的一個答覆我雖然\n\n14\n00:05:07,675 --> 00:05:31,714\n早上的答复我再说一次我说共铁是要消灭国民党消灭中华民国的这是共铁的工作这跟我们所称的所谓政治犯思想犯是不一样的而且身为国民党主席他应该知道历史也知道现实当大陆中国正在大陆吹捧无实的时候他已经陷入这种统战的过程当中大陆加强统战的结果就会出现\n\n15\n00:05:32,194 --> 00:05:56,258\n所以保衛中華民國台灣主權跟安全的工作已經沒有辦法在由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了所以未來政府應該跟國內的所有自由民主的人士更加強對中華民國台灣主權安全的保障我們必須要堅持這個原則謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度我們是不是接下來也請主席邀請我們國發會主委還有經濟部部長\n\n16\n00:06:01,378 --> 00:06:13,404\n經濟部長國安會主委國安會主委今天請教副主委代理部長我想請教你一件大事\n\n17\n00:06:14,434 --> 00:06:41,789\n我們捷安特被美國查過貨品這應該你知道這個是我們台灣第一次企業因為勞權的問題被美方來把貨品給扣住了這個不是企業倒楣我都認為這是國家品牌我們很重大的一個危機美國的海關說捷安特去採到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項這不是小事情\n\n18\n00:06:42,905 --> 00:07:08,438\n這個是一個國際上的警訊事情一發生以後業者他跑去跟我們外交部我相信也有跟你們經濟部還有勞動部來求助甚至於拜訪監察院我在司法法治委員會的在質詢的時候我還特別要求我們的監察院不要我們業者受苦受難的時候從後面再去撲刀這個代表\n\n19\n00:07:09,870 --> 00:07:37,415\n業者來求助的時候是他們慌了但重點是說我們政府能幫他們什麼我要請教部長說我們經濟部現在實際上去介入協助了什麼有沒有一個跨部會的機制一起來幫企業釐清事實來改善我們自己國內的一個企業的制度保安委員因為他這一個算是一個個案那事實上美方之前馬上有跟我們有過說\n\n20\n00:07:39,910 --> 00:08:00,104\n知道這件事情但是我們也跟美方有討論過這個東西他們強調是個案我們也嘗試聯繫說據道他們也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方來做說明所以我們也跟美方表達然後也幫他們介紹了律師怎麼樣來處理\n\n21\n00:08:02,009 --> 00:08:28,212\n美方也明顯的告訴我們因為這個是個案是他個案跟美方的邊境管制局的兩照希望我們政府先不要急著介入但是我們有幫他們做後來巨大也跟美國的已經有見面了已經也做了說明了因為他這個只是暫時處分最後結果還沒有判定\n\n22\n00:08:29,366 --> 00:08:49,749\n本席認為這件事情非同小可不要小看他你去把他看看這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢你對一間這大企業想就營收65%你一個貨卡在那個地方2到3年光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億這個影響到的不是只有這家公司\n\n23\n00:08:50,970 --> 00:09:10,706\n還有他整條供應鏈都會被拖下去喔現在TBA的工會已經在動美利達也準備要去改善那我們是希望說剛剛部長你這樣的回答那當然是有一點很圓融像因應美方美國政府的一個要求可以把事情給解決掉這也是一個方法但是呢\n\n24\n00:09:11,687 --> 00:09:28,241\n政府你說不動起來看企業自己在那個地方救火本席還是表達很擔心這個只是美國你看你接下來歐盟CSDDD上路人權就是新時代的貿易的一個通行證你現在不只美國\n\n25\n00:09:29,102 --> 00:09:43,964\n歐盟現在也動起來了你說去年通過一個新的指令企業永續盡責調查的一個指令就是本期剛提到的CSTDD白話講就是說把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律2027年就要上路\n\n26\n00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:57,693\n就是說台灣的企業只要你接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這些大品牌的你通通要遵守這套法規這個不是一個選擇題這個到最後是一個強制的我們自己對這個國際新的規範現在的還有2027年就要去上路的\n\n27\n00:10:11,380 --> 00:10:29,407\n我們有什麼樣的一個未雨綢繆我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程你像比如說我們從114年開始啊營收超過500億的製造業上市貴公司你開始要做人權的盡責的一個調查你116年起成果要公開在永續的一個報告書上但是呢\n\n28\n00:10:30,455 --> 00:10:44,695\n本市要強調就是說我們不能出事之後那開始在補破案沒有報告委員我剛才講雖然剛剛講巨案是一個個案沒有錯但是通案的部分我們已經跟勞動部要協商怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題\n\n29\n00:10:46,156 --> 00:11:11,832\n強迫勞動它的範圍蠻廣的對台灣來講的話很多我們是立即就可以改善的比如說職場的環境等等公安等等的一些情況但是最主要還是移工的問題我們現在遇到的問題我們本國勞工比較沒有問題是移工的問題移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走但是對全世界來講\n\n30\n00:11:13,277 --> 00:11:31,674\n他還是覺得說你雇主要全部負責吸收啦那這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論說看怎麼樣去因應還是有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣但是終究要去處理謝謝部長院長我要提的就是說政府應該是當企業的靠山\n\n31\n00:11:33,412 --> 00:11:52,572\n這些大型企業捷安特巨大的在台灣或者國際上都算非常有名的他企業都已經夠大了那很多產品他還不是他自己做他還是有很多供應鏈那政府我所謂的當企業的靠山就是說那底下那些供應鏈呢\n\n32\n00:11:53,593 --> 00:12:16,567\n你說巨大你說捷安特你說美利達我達到我自己的這些人權的一個指標了那底下的供應鏈呢我的意思就是說政府尤其是我們經濟部對這些中小企業該輔導的部分我們要為與籌謀要準備好不然新的制度上路以後我相信這個都是我們不是只有企業的危機\n\n33\n00:12:17,307 --> 00:12:26,987\n到最後會變成台灣品牌的一個危機請院長簡單的一個答覆第三方面跟委員答覆第一個委員剛剛提到人權是國際貿易的一張門票這個我非常認同\n\n34\n00:12:28,254 --> 00:12:54,015\n沒有達到這個人權的要求我們要跟國際進到國際社會都很困難況且要談到競爭這是第一個部分第二個雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件但我願意政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討請經濟部勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動的保障要做全面性的檢討也希望也提出一個指引讓大家可以共同遵守為什麼現在我們第三個部分就是\n\n35\n00:12:54,375 --> 00:13:12,081\n我們現在有推出一個企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期這個就是要生產者跟他的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準所以我們當中有一個企業實施人權禁止的調查這個調查非常重要我們會分公司的大小分層次\n\n36\n00:13:13,493 --> 00:13:22,363\n暗部就班循序漸進的來要求但總結總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話人權的標準要達到國際的標準我們才能夠順利進到國際的市場謝謝院長那我為什麼請國安會主委上來我記得\n\n37\n00:13:28,369 --> 00:13:52,699\n經濟部長工部長在當國會主委的時候我在院會質詢的時候我就對於我們這個少子化的部分我就一直在追問過了兩次那我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年不夠了只剩一個月而已也就是說我們這個八年的人口政策接近尾聲其實這個分數不及格\n\n38\n00:13:53,680 --> 00:14:23,019\n不及格了政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生啊但是呢我們看到了很多狀況你說我在鄉下我看了很多啊學校合併啊社區老化為什麼會這樣小紅起馬他的誰料酒你看像你你看現在全台出生人口預估13萬創新低連台東人口跌破21萬出生是死亡的五分之一啊\n\n39\n00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:47,184\n2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生他們2015年是地方創生元年我們2019年我們也是地方創生元年日本抓30年我當然現在我們才幾年的時間我們不敢期待看到巨大的一個效果可是我們現在都辦了活動居多了少子化他不是生的少\n\n40\n00:14:48,274 --> 00:15:12,052\n而更是留不住也回不來對鄉下來講就是這樣子那我要請教院長跟國會我們下一期的規劃是這樣的問題我們不要只停留在補貼了你像比如說你現在要人口政策應該進一步應該是引人回流吸引人才來你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的一個政策\n\n41\n00:15:12,873 --> 00:15:30,565\n也已經核定了你是三大據點台北台南跟台東那我要講的就是說你這個執行的重心如果都偏向活動的話你很難達到這個效果了你說你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留台人數跟你整個創業的一個轉\n\n42\n00:16:00,167 --> 00:16:00,687\n好謝謝謝謝莊委員謝謝卓院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13035\t16657\t謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長卓院長請備詢\n27529\t55959\t莊委員好院長好我想本席今天的質詢將圍繞在整個產業的轉型到企業人權跟社會正義但是首先想從最近的一個關於價值的問題來請教卓院長就這兩天中國國民黨的黨主席也就是本院的前同事鄭麗文他出席了50年代白色恐怖秋季追思的慰靈大會\n57139\t81487\t那其中追思到了幾位其實一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的一個叫吳石那這個地方我要來請教院長就是說對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜的一個追思我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣那我相信國人同胞他一定會覺得說一邊\n84810\t113146\t嘴巴講著反共保台一邊跑去追思共諜甚至於我們過去成長的背景裡面常常會看到好多標語保密防諜人人有責講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨就沒有現在的一個台灣結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰我看那個黨主席連一篇文他都懶得發但是寧願去幫共諜這樣做一個追思我不曉得\n114066\t138315\t這個是到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨是台灣的國民黨還是北京的國民黨所以我要請教院長就是說你對於在野黨的領袖去公開的追思共諜這樣的一個追思會身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長你的態度看法怎麼樣\n139551\t155146\t我表示遺憾因為一個中國國民黨的主席當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧無時甚至要求他的涉台人員要學習無時精神的時候竟然不避諱的去參加這個組織所舉行的這個活動會讓我們覺得\n160451\t182970\t跟民眾的距離太遙遠了尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動表示他不在乎社會的觀感不在乎歷史的定位也不在乎對岸用這個無實的精神要來加強對台灣統戰的事實跟人民的距離實在太遙遠了\n184144\t196016\t我認為院長這樣的一個答覆是你個人是太過於厚道我相信我們主席台上我認為我們連主席台上的副院長他一定會很大的一個感慨\n197097\t223042\t過去江啟臣副院長他也擔任過中國國民黨的一個黨主席嘛我想你現在在那裡一定有一個感觸就是說不然你過去說馬英九也好啦還是這個韓國瑜也好啊你至少你說在蔣介石的誕辰的時候你也去獻個花去吊雞一下甚至有的甚至跑去夜領起碼會維持一個歷史上的一個一致性但是看看現在的中國國民黨的黨主席\n226163\t243217\t我看那個蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提但是那是國民黨的家務事但問題是這轉身去向共諜致敬我看這個連蔣介石地下有知的話他會覺得他現在這些徒子徒孫他一定也不生虛虛但重點是\n246558\t259011\t對於國人同胞的看法是說這樣的一個政黨反共的旗子還沒有放下你忠誠就先投降這個會導致整個國家的一個錯亂當院長就提到的\n260097\t285046\t北京當然大吹大家學習無恥的一個精神對北京來講共諜他從來就不是一個罪名甚至他都認為說共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命但是相對對我們台灣而言對這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制破壞我們民主社會的一個敵人所以本集要在這個地方提醒\n286046\t305582\t當中國用經貿宗教媒體甚至文化在滲透台灣的時候啊其實在台灣的每一個角落我們有這樣的一個風險的時候台灣各個政黨的領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識所以啊院長這樣的一個答覆我雖然\n307675\t331714\t早上的答复我再说一次 我说共铁是要消灭国民党消灭中华民国的这是共铁的工作 这跟我们所称的所谓政治犯思想犯是不一样的而且身为国民党主席他应该知道历史也知道现实当大陆 中国正在大陆吹捧无实的时候他已经陷入这种统战的过程当中大陆加强统战的结果就会出现\n332194\t356258\t所以保衛中華民國台灣主權跟安全的工作已經沒有辦法在由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了所以未來政府應該跟國內的所有自由民主的人士更加強對中華民國台灣主權安全的保障我們必須要堅持這個原則謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度我們是不是接下來也請主席邀請我們國發會主委還有經濟部部長\n361378\t373404\t經濟部長 國安會主委國安會主委今天請教副主委代理部長我想請教你一件大事\n374434\t401789\t我們捷安特被美國查過貨品這應該你知道這個是我們台灣第一次企業因為勞權的問題被美方來把貨品給扣住了這個不是企業倒楣我都認為這是國家品牌我們很重大的一個危機美國的海關說捷安特去採到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項這不是小事情\n402905\t428438\t這個是一個國際上的警訊事情一發生以後業者他跑去跟我們外交部我相信也有跟你們經濟部還有勞動部來求助甚至於拜訪監察院我在司法法治委員會的在質詢的時候我還特別要求我們的監察院不要我們業者受苦受難的時候從後面再去撲刀這個代表\n429870\t457415\t業者來求助的時候是他們慌了但重點是說我們政府能幫他們什麼我要請教部長說我們經濟部現在實際上去介入協助了什麼有沒有一個跨部會的機制一起來幫企業釐清事實來改善我們自己國內的一個企業的制度保安委員因為他這一個算是一個個案那事實上美方之前馬上有跟我們有過說\n459910\t480104\t知道這件事情但是我們也跟美方有討論過這個東西他們強調是個案我們也嘗試聯繫說據道他們也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方來做說明所以我們也跟美方表達然後也幫他們介紹了律師怎麼樣來處理\n482009\t508212\t美方也明顯的告訴我們因為這個是個案是他個案跟美方的邊境管制局的兩照希望我們政府先不要急著介入但是我們有幫他們做後來巨大也跟美國的已經有見面了已經也做了說明了因為他這個只是暫時處分最後結果還沒有判定\n509366\t529749\t本席認為這件事情非同小可不要小看他你去把他看看這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢你對一間這大企業想就營收65%你一個貨卡在那個地方2到3年光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億這個影響到的不是只有這家公司\n530970\t550706\t還有他整條供應鏈都會被拖下去喔現在TBA的工會已經在動美利達也準備要去改善那我們是希望說剛剛部長你這樣的回答那當然是有一點很圓融像因應美方美國政府的一個要求可以把事情給解決掉這也是一個方法但是呢\n551687\t568241\t政府你說不動起來看企業自己在那個地方救火本席還是表達很擔心這個只是美國你看你接下來歐盟CSDDD上路人權就是新時代的貿易的一個通行證你現在不只美國\n569102\t583964\t歐盟現在也動起來了你說去年通過一個新的指令企業永續盡責調查的一個指令就是本期剛提到的CSTDD白話講就是說把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律2027年就要上路\n584685\t597693\t就是說台灣的企業只要你接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這些大品牌的你通通要遵守這套法規這個不是一個選擇題這個到最後是一個強制的我們自己對這個國際新的規範現在的還有2027年就要去上路的\n611380\t629407\t我們有什麼樣的一個未雨綢繆我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程你像比如說我們從114年開始啊營收超過500億的製造業上市貴公司你開始要做人權的盡責的一個調查你116年起成果要公開在永續的一個報告書上但是呢\n630455\t644695\t本市要強調就是說我們不能出事之後那開始在補破案沒有 報告委員我剛才講雖然剛剛講巨案是一個個案沒有錯但是通案的部分我們已經跟勞動部要協商怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題\n646156\t671832\t強迫勞動它的範圍蠻廣的對台灣來講的話很多我們是立即就可以改善的比如說職場的環境等等公安等等的一些情況但是最主要還是移工的問題我們現在遇到的問題我們本國勞工比較沒有問題是移工的問題移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走但是對全世界來講\n673277\t691674\t他還是覺得說你雇主要全部負責吸收啦那這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論說看怎麼樣去因應還是有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣但是終究要去處理謝謝部長院長我要提的就是說政府應該是當企業的靠山\n693412\t712572\t這些大型企業捷安特巨大的在台灣或者國際上都算非常有名的他企業都已經夠大了那很多產品他還不是他自己做他還是有很多供應鏈那政府我所謂的當企業的靠山就是說那底下那些供應鏈呢\n713593\t736567\t你說巨大你說捷安特你說美利達我達到我自己的這些人權的一個指標了那底下的供應鏈呢我的意思就是說政府尤其是我們經濟部對這些中小企業該輔導的部分我們要為與籌謀要準備好不然新的制度上路以後我相信這個都是我們不是只有企業的危機\n737307\t746987\t到最後會變成台灣品牌的一個危機請 院長簡單的一個答覆第三方面跟委員答覆第一個 委員剛剛提到人權是國際貿易的一張門票這個我非常認同\n748254\t774015\t沒有達到這個人權的要求我們要跟國際進到國際社會都很困難況且要談到競爭這是第一個部分第二個雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件但我願意政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討請經濟部勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動的保障要做全面性的檢討也希望也提出一個指引讓大家可以共同遵守為什麼現在我們第三個部分就是\n774375\t792081\t我們現在有推出一個企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期這個就是要生產者跟他的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準所以我們當中有一個企業實施人權禁止的調查這個調查非常重要我們會分公司的大小分層次\n793493\t802363\t暗部就班循序漸進的來要求但總結總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話人權的標準要達到國際的標準我們才能夠順利進到國際的市場謝謝院長那我為什麼請國安會主委上來我記得\n808369\t832699\t經濟部長 工部長在當國會主委的時候我在院會質詢的時候我就對於我們這個少子化的部分我就一直在追問過了兩次那我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年不夠了 只剩一個月而已也就是說我們這個八年的人口政策接近尾聲其實這個分數不及格\n833680\t863019\t不及格了政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生啊但是呢我們看到了很多狀況你說我在鄉下我看了很多啊學校合併啊社區老化為什麼會這樣小紅起馬他的誰料酒你看像你你看現在全台出生人口預估13萬創新低連台東人口跌破21萬出生是死亡的五分之一啊\n865130\t887184\t2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生他們2015年是地方創生元年我們2019年我們也是地方創生元年日本抓30年我當然現在我們才幾年的時間我們不敢期待看到巨大的一個效果可是我們現在都辦了活動居多了少子化他不是生的少\n888274\t912052\t而更是留不住也回不來對鄉下來講就是這樣子那我要請教院長跟國會我們下一期的規劃是這樣的問題我們不要只停留在補貼了你像比如說你現在要人口政策應該進一步應該是引人回流吸引人才來你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的一個政策\n912873\t930565\t也已經核定了 你是三大據點台北 台南跟台東那我要講的就是說你這個執行的重心如果都偏向活動的話你很難達到這個效果了你說你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留台人數跟你整個創業的一個轉\n960167\t960687\t好 謝謝謝謝莊委員 謝謝卓院長\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長卓院長請備詢\n莊委員好院長好我想本席今天的質詢將圍繞在整個產業的轉型到企業人權跟社會正義但是首先想從最近的一個關於價值的問題來請教卓院長就這兩天中國國民黨的黨主席也就是本院的前同事鄭麗文他出席了50年代白色恐怖秋季追思的慰靈大會\n那其中追思到了幾位其實一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的一個叫吳石那這個地方我要來請教院長就是說對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜的一個追思我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣那我相信國人同胞他一定會覺得說一邊\n嘴巴講著反共保台一邊跑去追思共諜甚至於我們過去成長的背景裡面常常會看到好多標語保密防諜人人有責講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨就沒有現在的一個台灣結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰我看那個黨主席連一篇文他都懶得發但是寧願去幫共諜這樣做一個追思我不曉得\n這個是到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨是台灣的國民黨還是北京的國民黨所以我要請教院長就是說你對於在野黨的領袖去公開的追思共諜這樣的一個追思會身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長你的態度看法怎麼樣\n我表示遺憾因為一個中國國民黨的主席當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧無時甚至要求他的涉台人員要學習無時精神的時候竟然不避諱的去參加這個組織所舉行的這個活動會讓我們覺得\n跟民眾的距離太遙遠了尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動表示他不在乎社會的觀感不在乎歷史的定位也不在乎對岸用這個無實的精神要來加強對台灣統戰的事實跟人民的距離實在太遙遠了\n我認為院長這樣的一個答覆是你個人是太過於厚道我相信我們主席台上我認為我們連主席台上的副院長他一定會很大的一個感慨\n過去江啟臣副院長他也擔任過中國國民黨的一個黨主席嘛我想你現在在那裡一定有一個感觸就是說不然你過去說馬英九也好啦還是這個韓國瑜也好啊你至少你說在蔣介石的誕辰的時候你也去獻個花去吊雞一下甚至有的甚至跑去夜領起碼會維持一個歷史上的一個一致性但是看看現在的中國國民黨的黨主席\n我看那個蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提但是那是國民黨的家務事但問題是這轉身去向共諜致敬我看這個連蔣介石地下有知的話他會覺得他現在這些徒子徒孫他一定也不生虛虛但重點是\n對於國人同胞的看法是說這樣的一個政黨反共的旗子還沒有放下你忠誠就先投降這個會導致整個國家的一個錯亂當院長就提到的\n北京當然大吹大家學習無恥的一個精神對北京來講共諜他從來就不是一個罪名甚至他都認為說共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命但是相對對我們台灣而言對這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制破壞我們民主社會的一個敵人所以本集要在這個地方提醒\n當中國用經貿宗教媒體甚至文化在滲透台灣的時候啊其實在台灣的每一個角落我們有這樣的一個風險的時候台灣各個政黨的領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識所以啊院長這樣的一個答覆我雖然\n早上的答复我再说一次 我说共铁是要消灭国民党消灭中华民国的这是共铁的工作 这跟我们所称的所谓政治犯思想犯是不一样的而且身为国民党主席他应该知道历史也知道现实当大陆 中国正在大陆吹捧无实的时候他已经陷入这种统战的过程当中大陆加强统战的结果就会出现\n所以保衛中華民國台灣主權跟安全的工作已經沒有辦法在由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了所以未來政府應該跟國內的所有自由民主的人士更加強對中華民國台灣主權安全的保障我們必須要堅持這個原則謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度我們是不是接下來也請主席邀請我們國發會主委還有經濟部部長\n經濟部長 國安會主委國安會主委今天請教副主委代理部長我想請教你一件大事\n我們捷安特被美國查過貨品這應該你知道這個是我們台灣第一次企業因為勞權的問題被美方來把貨品給扣住了這個不是企業倒楣我都認為這是國家品牌我們很重大的一個危機美國的海關說捷安特去採到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項這不是小事情\n這個是一個國際上的警訊事情一發生以後業者他跑去跟我們外交部我相信也有跟你們經濟部還有勞動部來求助甚至於拜訪監察院我在司法法治委員會的在質詢的時候我還特別要求我們的監察院不要我們業者受苦受難的時候從後面再去撲刀這個代表\n業者來求助的時候是他們慌了但重點是說我們政府能幫他們什麼我要請教部長說我們經濟部現在實際上去介入協助了什麼有沒有一個跨部會的機制一起來幫企業釐清事實來改善我們自己國內的一個企業的制度保安委員因為他這一個算是一個個案那事實上美方之前馬上有跟我們有過說\n知道這件事情但是我們也跟美方有討論過這個東西他們強調是個案我們也嘗試聯繫說據道他們也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方來做說明所以我們也跟美方表達然後也幫他們介紹了律師怎麼樣來處理\n美方也明顯的告訴我們因為這個是個案是他個案跟美方的邊境管制局的兩照希望我們政府先不要急著介入但是我們有幫他們做後來巨大也跟美國的已經有見面了已經也做了說明了因為他這個只是暫時處分最後結果還沒有判定\n本席認為這件事情非同小可不要小看他你去把他看看這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢你對一間這大企業想就營收65%你一個貨卡在那個地方2到3年光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億這個影響到的不是只有這家公司\n還有他整條供應鏈都會被拖下去喔現在TBA的工會已經在動美利達也準備要去改善那我們是希望說剛剛部長你這樣的回答那當然是有一點很圓融像因應美方美國政府的一個要求可以把事情給解決掉這也是一個方法但是呢\n政府你說不動起來看企業自己在那個地方救火本席還是表達很擔心這個只是美國你看你接下來歐盟CSDDD上路人權就是新時代的貿易的一個通行證你現在不只美國\n歐盟現在也動起來了你說去年通過一個新的指令企業永續盡責調查的一個指令就是本期剛提到的CSTDD白話講就是說把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律2027年就要上路\n就是說台灣的企業只要你接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這些大品牌的你通通要遵守這套法規這個不是一個選擇題這個到最後是一個強制的我們自己對這個國際新的規範現在的還有2027年就要去上路的\n我們有什麼樣的一個未雨綢繆我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程你像比如說我們從114年開始啊營收超過500億的製造業上市貴公司你開始要做人權的盡責的一個調查你116年起成果要公開在永續的一個報告書上但是呢\n本市要強調就是說我們不能出事之後那開始在補破案沒有 報告委員我剛才講雖然剛剛講巨案是一個個案沒有錯但是通案的部分我們已經跟勞動部要協商怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題\n強迫勞動它的範圍蠻廣的對台灣來講的話很多我們是立即就可以改善的比如說職場的環境等等公安等等的一些情況但是最主要還是移工的問題我們現在遇到的問題我們本國勞工比較沒有問題是移工的問題移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走但是對全世界來講\n他還是覺得說你雇主要全部負責吸收啦那這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論說看怎麼樣去因應還是有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣但是終究要去處理謝謝部長院長我要提的就是說政府應該是當企業的靠山\n這些大型企業捷安特巨大的在台灣或者國際上都算非常有名的他企業都已經夠大了那很多產品他還不是他自己做他還是有很多供應鏈那政府我所謂的當企業的靠山就是說那底下那些供應鏈呢\n你說巨大你說捷安特你說美利達我達到我自己的這些人權的一個指標了那底下的供應鏈呢我的意思就是說政府尤其是我們經濟部對這些中小企業該輔導的部分我們要為與籌謀要準備好不然新的制度上路以後我相信這個都是我們不是只有企業的危機\n到最後會變成台灣品牌的一個危機請 院長簡單的一個答覆第三方面跟委員答覆第一個 委員剛剛提到人權是國際貿易的一張門票這個我非常認同\n沒有達到這個人權的要求我們要跟國際進到國際社會都很困難況且要談到競爭這是第一個部分第二個雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件但我願意政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討請經濟部勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動的保障要做全面性的檢討也希望也提出一個指引讓大家可以共同遵守為什麼現在我們第三個部分就是\n我們現在有推出一個企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期這個就是要生產者跟他的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準所以我們當中有一個企業實施人權禁止的調查這個調查非常重要我們會分公司的大小分層次\n暗部就班循序漸進的來要求但總結總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話人權的標準要達到國際的標準我們才能夠順利進到國際的市場謝謝院長那我為什麼請國安會主委上來我記得\n經濟部長 工部長在當國會主委的時候我在院會質詢的時候我就對於我們這個少子化的部分我就一直在追問過了兩次那我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年不夠了 只剩一個月而已也就是說我們這個八年的人口政策接近尾聲其實這個分數不及格\n不及格了政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生啊但是呢我們看到了很多狀況你說我在鄉下我看了很多啊學校合併啊社區老化為什麼會這樣小紅起馬他的誰料酒你看像你你看現在全台出生人口預估13萬創新低連台東人口跌破21萬出生是死亡的五分之一啊\n2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生他們2015年是地方創生元年我們2019年我們也是地方創生元年日本抓30年我當然現在我們才幾年的時間我們不敢期待看到巨大的一個效果可是我們現在都辦了活動居多了少子化他不是生的少\n而更是留不住也回不來對鄉下來講就是這樣子那我要請教院長跟國會我們下一期的規劃是這樣的問題我們不要只停留在補貼了你像比如說你現在要人口政策應該進一步應該是引人回流吸引人才來你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的一個政策\n也已經核定了 你是三大據點台北 台南跟台東那我要講的就是說你這個執行的重心如果都偏向活動的話你很難達到這個效果了你說你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留台人數跟你整個創業的一個轉\n好 謝謝謝謝莊委員 謝謝卓院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.035 --> 00:16.657\n謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長卓院長請備詢\n\n00:27.529 --> 00:55.959\n莊委員好院長好我想本席今天的質詢將圍繞在整個產業的轉型到企業人權跟社會正義但是首先想從最近的一個關於價值的問題來請教卓院長就這兩天中國國民黨的黨主席也就是本院的前同事鄭麗文他出席了50年代白色恐怖秋季追思的慰靈大會\n\n00:57.139 --> 01:21.487\n那其中追思到了幾位其實一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的一個叫吳石那這個地方我要來請教院長就是說對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜的一個追思我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣那我相信國人同胞他一定會覺得說一邊\n\n01:24.810 --> 01:53.146\n嘴巴講著反共保台一邊跑去追思共諜甚至於我們過去成長的背景裡面常常會看到好多標語保密防諜人人有責講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨就沒有現在的一個台灣結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰我看那個黨主席連一篇文他都懶得發但是寧願去幫共諜這樣做一個追思我不曉得\n\n01:54.066 --> 02:18.315\n這個是到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨是台灣的國民黨還是北京的國民黨所以我要請教院長就是說你對於在野黨的領袖去公開的追思共諜這樣的一個追思會身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長你的態度看法怎麼樣\n\n02:19.551 --> 02:35.146\n我表示遺憾因為一個中國國民黨的主席當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧無時甚至要求他的涉台人員要學習無時精神的時候竟然不避諱的去參加這個組織所舉行的這個活動會讓我們覺得\n\n02:40.451 --> 03:02.970\n跟民眾的距離太遙遠了尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動表示他不在乎社會的觀感不在乎歷史的定位也不在乎對岸用這個無實的精神要來加強對台灣統戰的事實跟人民的距離實在太遙遠了\n\n03:04.144 --> 03:16.016\n我認為院長這樣的一個答覆是你個人是太過於厚道我相信我們主席台上我認為我們連主席台上的副院長他一定會很大的一個感慨\n\n03:17.097 --> 03:43.042\n過去江啟臣副院長他也擔任過中國國民黨的一個黨主席嘛我想你現在在那裡一定有一個感觸就是說不然你過去說馬英九也好啦還是這個韓國瑜也好啊你至少你說在蔣介石的誕辰的時候你也去獻個花去吊雞一下甚至有的甚至跑去夜領起碼會維持一個歷史上的一個一致性但是看看現在的中國國民黨的黨主席\n\n03:46.163 --> 04:03.217\n我看那個蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提但是那是國民黨的家務事但問題是這轉身去向共諜致敬我看這個連蔣介石地下有知的話他會覺得他現在這些徒子徒孫他一定也不生虛虛但重點是\n\n04:06.558 --> 04:19.011\n對於國人同胞的看法是說這樣的一個政黨反共的旗子還沒有放下你忠誠就先投降這個會導致整個國家的一個錯亂當院長就提到的\n\n04:20.097 --> 04:45.046\n北京當然大吹大家學習無恥的一個精神對北京來講共諜他從來就不是一個罪名甚至他都認為說共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命但是相對對我們台灣而言對這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制破壞我們民主社會的一個敵人所以本集要在這個地方提醒\n\n04:46.046 --> 05:05.582\n當中國用經貿宗教媒體甚至文化在滲透台灣的時候啊其實在台灣的每一個角落我們有這樣的一個風險的時候台灣各個政黨的領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識所以啊院長這樣的一個答覆我雖然\n\n05:07.675 --> 05:31.714\n早上的答复我再说一次我说共铁是要消灭国民党消灭中华民国的这是共铁的工作这跟我们所称的所谓政治犯思想犯是不一样的而且身为国民党主席他应该知道历史也知道现实当大陆中国正在大陆吹捧无实的时候他已经陷入这种统战的过程当中大陆加强统战的结果就会出现\n\n05:32.194 --> 05:56.258\n所以保衛中華民國台灣主權跟安全的工作已經沒有辦法在由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了所以未來政府應該跟國內的所有自由民主的人士更加強對中華民國台灣主權安全的保障我們必須要堅持這個原則謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度我們是不是接下來也請主席邀請我們國發會主委還有經濟部部長\n\n06:01.378 --> 06:13.404\n經濟部長國安會主委國安會主委今天請教副主委代理部長我想請教你一件大事\n\n06:14.434 --> 06:41.789\n我們捷安特被美國查過貨品這應該你知道這個是我們台灣第一次企業因為勞權的問題被美方來把貨品給扣住了這個不是企業倒楣我都認為這是國家品牌我們很重大的一個危機美國的海關說捷安特去採到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項這不是小事情\n\n06:42.905 --> 07:08.438\n這個是一個國際上的警訊事情一發生以後業者他跑去跟我們外交部我相信也有跟你們經濟部還有勞動部來求助甚至於拜訪監察院我在司法法治委員會的在質詢的時候我還特別要求我們的監察院不要我們業者受苦受難的時候從後面再去撲刀這個代表\n\n07:09.870 --> 07:37.415\n業者來求助的時候是他們慌了但重點是說我們政府能幫他們什麼我要請教部長說我們經濟部現在實際上去介入協助了什麼有沒有一個跨部會的機制一起來幫企業釐清事實來改善我們自己國內的一個企業的制度保安委員因為他這一個算是一個個案那事實上美方之前馬上有跟我們有過說\n\n07:39.910 --> 08:00.104\n知道這件事情但是我們也跟美方有討論過這個東西他們強調是個案我們也嘗試聯繫說據道他們也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方來做說明所以我們也跟美方表達然後也幫他們介紹了律師怎麼樣來處理\n\n08:02.009 --> 08:28.212\n美方也明顯的告訴我們因為這個是個案是他個案跟美方的邊境管制局的兩照希望我們政府先不要急著介入但是我們有幫他們做後來巨大也跟美國的已經有見面了已經也做了說明了因為他這個只是暫時處分最後結果還沒有判定\n\n08:29.366 --> 08:49.749\n本席認為這件事情非同小可不要小看他你去把他看看這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢你對一間這大企業想就營收65%你一個貨卡在那個地方2到3年光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億這個影響到的不是只有這家公司\n\n08:50.970 --> 09:10.706\n還有他整條供應鏈都會被拖下去喔現在TBA的工會已經在動美利達也準備要去改善那我們是希望說剛剛部長你這樣的回答那當然是有一點很圓融像因應美方美國政府的一個要求可以把事情給解決掉這也是一個方法但是呢\n\n09:11.687 --> 09:28.241\n政府你說不動起來看企業自己在那個地方救火本席還是表達很擔心這個只是美國你看你接下來歐盟CSDDD上路人權就是新時代的貿易的一個通行證你現在不只美國\n\n09:29.102 --> 09:43.964\n歐盟現在也動起來了你說去年通過一個新的指令企業永續盡責調查的一個指令就是本期剛提到的CSTDD白話講就是說把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律2027年就要上路\n\n09:44.685 --> 09:57.693\n就是說台灣的企業只要你接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這些大品牌的你通通要遵守這套法規這個不是一個選擇題這個到最後是一個強制的我們自己對這個國際新的規範現在的還有2027年就要去上路的\n\n10:11.380 --> 10:29.407\n我們有什麼樣的一個未雨綢繆我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程你像比如說我們從114年開始啊營收超過500億的製造業上市貴公司你開始要做人權的盡責的一個調查你116年起成果要公開在永續的一個報告書上但是呢\n\n10:30.455 --> 10:44.695\n本市要強調就是說我們不能出事之後那開始在補破案沒有報告委員我剛才講雖然剛剛講巨案是一個個案沒有錯但是通案的部分我們已經跟勞動部要協商怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題\n\n10:46.156 --> 11:11.832\n強迫勞動它的範圍蠻廣的對台灣來講的話很多我們是立即就可以改善的比如說職場的環境等等公安等等的一些情況但是最主要還是移工的問題我們現在遇到的問題我們本國勞工比較沒有問題是移工的問題移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走但是對全世界來講\n\n11:13.277 --> 11:31.674\n他還是覺得說你雇主要全部負責吸收啦那這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論說看怎麼樣去因應還是有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣但是終究要去處理謝謝部長院長我要提的就是說政府應該是當企業的靠山\n\n11:33.412 --> 11:52.572\n這些大型企業捷安特巨大的在台灣或者國際上都算非常有名的他企業都已經夠大了那很多產品他還不是他自己做他還是有很多供應鏈那政府我所謂的當企業的靠山就是說那底下那些供應鏈呢\n\n11:53.593 --> 12:16.567\n你說巨大你說捷安特你說美利達我達到我自己的這些人權的一個指標了那底下的供應鏈呢我的意思就是說政府尤其是我們經濟部對這些中小企業該輔導的部分我們要為與籌謀要準備好不然新的制度上路以後我相信這個都是我們不是只有企業的危機\n\n12:17.307 --> 12:26.987\n到最後會變成台灣品牌的一個危機請院長簡單的一個答覆第三方面跟委員答覆第一個委員剛剛提到人權是國際貿易的一張門票這個我非常認同\n\n12:28.254 --> 12:54.015\n沒有達到這個人權的要求我們要跟國際進到國際社會都很困難況且要談到競爭這是第一個部分第二個雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件但我願意政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討請經濟部勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動的保障要做全面性的檢討也希望也提出一個指引讓大家可以共同遵守為什麼現在我們第三個部分就是\n\n12:54.375 --> 13:12.081\n我們現在有推出一個企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期這個就是要生產者跟他的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準所以我們當中有一個企業實施人權禁止的調查這個調查非常重要我們會分公司的大小分層次\n\n13:13.493 --> 13:22.363\n暗部就班循序漸進的來要求但總結總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話人權的標準要達到國際的標準我們才能夠順利進到國際的市場謝謝院長那我為什麼請國安會主委上來我記得\n\n13:28.369 --> 13:52.699\n經濟部長工部長在當國會主委的時候我在院會質詢的時候我就對於我們這個少子化的部分我就一直在追問過了兩次那我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年不夠了只剩一個月而已也就是說我們這個八年的人口政策接近尾聲其實這個分數不及格\n\n13:53.680 --> 14:23.019\n不及格了政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生啊但是呢我們看到了很多狀況你說我在鄉下我看了很多啊學校合併啊社區老化為什麼會這樣小紅起馬他的誰料酒你看像你你看現在全台出生人口預估13萬創新低連台東人口跌破21萬出生是死亡的五分之一啊\n\n14:25.130 --> 14:47.184\n2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生他們2015年是地方創生元年我們2019年我們也是地方創生元年日本抓30年我當然現在我們才幾年的時間我們不敢期待看到巨大的一個效果可是我們現在都辦了活動居多了少子化他不是生的少\n\n14:48.274 --> 15:12.052\n而更是留不住也回不來對鄉下來講就是這樣子那我要請教院長跟國會我們下一期的規劃是這樣的問題我們不要只停留在補貼了你像比如說你現在要人口政策應該進一步應該是引人回流吸引人才來你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的一個政策\n\n15:12.873 --> 15:30.565\n也已經核定了你是三大據點台北台南跟台東那我要講的就是說你這個執行的重心如果都偏向活動的話你很難達到這個效果了你說你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留台人數跟你整個創業的一個轉\n\n16:00.167 --> 16:00.687\n好謝謝謝謝莊委員謝謝卓院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.035,"end":16.657,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長卓院長請備詢"},{"start":27.529,"end":55.959,"text":"莊委員好院長好我想本席今天的質詢將圍繞在整個產業的轉型到企業人權跟社會正義但是首先想從最近的一個關於價值的問題來請教卓院長就這兩天中國國民黨的黨主席也就是本院的前同事鄭麗文他出席了50年代白色恐怖秋季追思的慰靈大會"},{"start":57.139,"end":81.487,"text":"那其中追思到了幾位其實一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的一個叫吳石那這個地方我要來請教院長就是說對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜的一個追思我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣那我相信國人同胞他一定會覺得說一邊"},{"start":84.81,"end":113.146,"text":"嘴巴講著反共保台一邊跑去追思共諜甚至於我們過去成長的背景裡面常常會看到好多標語保密防諜人人有責講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨就沒有現在的一個台灣結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰我看那個黨主席連一篇文他都懶得發但是寧願去幫共諜這樣做一個追思我不曉得"},{"start":114.066,"end":138.315,"text":"這個是到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨是台灣的國民黨還是北京的國民黨所以我要請教院長就是說你對於在野黨的領袖去公開的追思共諜這樣的一個追思會身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長你的態度看法怎麼樣"},{"start":139.551,"end":155.146,"text":"我表示遺憾因為一個中國國民黨的主席當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧無時甚至要求他的涉台人員要學習無時精神的時候竟然不避諱的去參加這個組織所舉行的這個活動會讓我們覺得"},{"start":160.451,"end":182.97,"text":"跟民眾的距離太遙遠了尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動表示他不在乎社會的觀感不在乎歷史的定位也不在乎對岸用這個無實的精神要來加強對台灣統戰的事實跟人民的距離實在太遙遠了"},{"start":184.144,"end":196.016,"text":"我認為院長這樣的一個答覆是你個人是太過於厚道我相信我們主席台上我認為我們連主席台上的副院長他一定會很大的一個感慨"},{"start":197.097,"end":223.042,"text":"過去江啟臣副院長他也擔任過中國國民黨的一個黨主席嘛我想你現在在那裡一定有一個感觸就是說不然你過去說馬英九也好啦還是這個韓國瑜也好啊你至少你說在蔣介石的誕辰的時候你也去獻個花去吊雞一下甚至有的甚至跑去夜領起碼會維持一個歷史上的一個一致性但是看看現在的中國國民黨的黨主席"},{"start":226.163,"end":243.217,"text":"我看那個蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提但是那是國民黨的家務事但問題是這轉身去向共諜致敬我看這個連蔣介石地下有知的話他會覺得他現在這些徒子徒孫他一定也不生虛虛但重點是"},{"start":246.558,"end":259.011,"text":"對於國人同胞的看法是說這樣的一個政黨反共的旗子還沒有放下你忠誠就先投降這個會導致整個國家的一個錯亂當院長就提到的"},{"start":260.097,"end":285.046,"text":"北京當然大吹大家學習無恥的一個精神對北京來講共諜他從來就不是一個罪名甚至他都認為說共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命但是相對對我們台灣而言對這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制破壞我們民主社會的一個敵人所以本集要在這個地方提醒"},{"start":286.046,"end":305.582,"text":"當中國用經貿宗教媒體甚至文化在滲透台灣的時候啊其實在台灣的每一個角落我們有這樣的一個風險的時候台灣各個政黨的領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識所以啊院長這樣的一個答覆我雖然"},{"start":307.675,"end":331.714,"text":"早上的答复我再说一次 我说共铁是要消灭国民党消灭中华民国的这是共铁的工作 这跟我们所称的所谓政治犯思想犯是不一样的而且身为国民党主席他应该知道历史也知道现实当大陆 中国正在大陆吹捧无实的时候他已经陷入这种统战的过程当中大陆加强统战的结果就会出现"},{"start":332.194,"end":356.258,"text":"所以保衛中華民國台灣主權跟安全的工作已經沒有辦法在由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了所以未來政府應該跟國內的所有自由民主的人士更加強對中華民國台灣主權安全的保障我們必須要堅持這個原則謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度我們是不是接下來也請主席邀請我們國發會主委還有經濟部部長"},{"start":361.378,"end":373.404,"text":"經濟部長 國安會主委國安會主委今天請教副主委代理部長我想請教你一件大事"},{"start":374.434,"end":401.789,"text":"我們捷安特被美國查過貨品這應該你知道這個是我們台灣第一次企業因為勞權的問題被美方來把貨品給扣住了這個不是企業倒楣我都認為這是國家品牌我們很重大的一個危機美國的海關說捷安特去採到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項這不是小事情"},{"start":402.905,"end":428.438,"text":"這個是一個國際上的警訊事情一發生以後業者他跑去跟我們外交部我相信也有跟你們經濟部還有勞動部來求助甚至於拜訪監察院我在司法法治委員會的在質詢的時候我還特別要求我們的監察院不要我們業者受苦受難的時候從後面再去撲刀這個代表"},{"start":429.87,"end":457.415,"text":"業者來求助的時候是他們慌了但重點是說我們政府能幫他們什麼我要請教部長說我們經濟部現在實際上去介入協助了什麼有沒有一個跨部會的機制一起來幫企業釐清事實來改善我們自己國內的一個企業的制度保安委員因為他這一個算是一個個案那事實上美方之前馬上有跟我們有過說"},{"start":459.91,"end":480.104,"text":"知道這件事情但是我們也跟美方有討論過這個東西他們強調是個案我們也嘗試聯繫說據道他們也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方來做說明所以我們也跟美方表達然後也幫他們介紹了律師怎麼樣來處理"},{"start":482.009,"end":508.212,"text":"美方也明顯的告訴我們因為這個是個案是他個案跟美方的邊境管制局的兩照希望我們政府先不要急著介入但是我們有幫他們做後來巨大也跟美國的已經有見面了已經也做了說明了因為他這個只是暫時處分最後結果還沒有判定"},{"start":509.366,"end":529.749,"text":"本席認為這件事情非同小可不要小看他你去把他看看這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢你對一間這大企業想就營收65%你一個貨卡在那個地方2到3年光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億這個影響到的不是只有這家公司"},{"start":530.97,"end":550.706,"text":"還有他整條供應鏈都會被拖下去喔現在TBA的工會已經在動美利達也準備要去改善那我們是希望說剛剛部長你這樣的回答那當然是有一點很圓融像因應美方美國政府的一個要求可以把事情給解決掉這也是一個方法但是呢"},{"start":551.687,"end":568.241,"text":"政府你說不動起來看企業自己在那個地方救火本席還是表達很擔心這個只是美國你看你接下來歐盟CSDDD上路人權就是新時代的貿易的一個通行證你現在不只美國"},{"start":569.102,"end":583.964,"text":"歐盟現在也動起來了你說去年通過一個新的指令企業永續盡責調查的一個指令就是本期剛提到的CSTDD白話講就是說把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律2027年就要上路"},{"start":584.685,"end":597.693,"text":"就是說台灣的企業只要你接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這些大品牌的你通通要遵守這套法規這個不是一個選擇題這個到最後是一個強制的我們自己對這個國際新的規範現在的還有2027年就要去上路的"},{"start":611.38,"end":629.407,"text":"我們有什麼樣的一個未雨綢繆我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程你像比如說我們從114年開始啊營收超過500億的製造業上市貴公司你開始要做人權的盡責的一個調查你116年起成果要公開在永續的一個報告書上但是呢"},{"start":630.455,"end":644.695,"text":"本市要強調就是說我們不能出事之後那開始在補破案沒有 報告委員我剛才講雖然剛剛講巨案是一個個案沒有錯但是通案的部分我們已經跟勞動部要協商怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題"},{"start":646.156,"end":671.832,"text":"強迫勞動它的範圍蠻廣的對台灣來講的話很多我們是立即就可以改善的比如說職場的環境等等公安等等的一些情況但是最主要還是移工的問題我們現在遇到的問題我們本國勞工比較沒有問題是移工的問題移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走但是對全世界來講"},{"start":673.277,"end":691.674,"text":"他還是覺得說你雇主要全部負責吸收啦那這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論說看怎麼樣去因應還是有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣但是終究要去處理謝謝部長院長我要提的就是說政府應該是當企業的靠山"},{"start":693.412,"end":712.572,"text":"這些大型企業捷安特巨大的在台灣或者國際上都算非常有名的他企業都已經夠大了那很多產品他還不是他自己做他還是有很多供應鏈那政府我所謂的當企業的靠山就是說那底下那些供應鏈呢"},{"start":713.593,"end":736.567,"text":"你說巨大你說捷安特你說美利達我達到我自己的這些人權的一個指標了那底下的供應鏈呢我的意思就是說政府尤其是我們經濟部對這些中小企業該輔導的部分我們要為與籌謀要準備好不然新的制度上路以後我相信這個都是我們不是只有企業的危機"},{"start":737.307,"end":746.987,"text":"到最後會變成台灣品牌的一個危機請 院長簡單的一個答覆第三方面跟委員答覆第一個 委員剛剛提到人權是國際貿易的一張門票這個我非常認同"},{"start":748.254,"end":774.015,"text":"沒有達到這個人權的要求我們要跟國際進到國際社會都很困難況且要談到競爭這是第一個部分第二個雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件但我願意政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討請經濟部勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動的保障要做全面性的檢討也希望也提出一個指引讓大家可以共同遵守為什麼現在我們第三個部分就是"},{"start":774.375,"end":792.081,"text":"我們現在有推出一個企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期這個就是要生產者跟他的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準所以我們當中有一個企業實施人權禁止的調查這個調查非常重要我們會分公司的大小分層次"},{"start":793.493,"end":802.363,"text":"暗部就班循序漸進的來要求但總結總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話人權的標準要達到國際的標準我們才能夠順利進到國際的市場謝謝院長那我為什麼請國安會主委上來我記得"},{"start":808.369,"end":832.699,"text":"經濟部長 工部長在當國會主委的時候我在院會質詢的時候我就對於我們這個少子化的部分我就一直在追問過了兩次那我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年不夠了 只剩一個月而已也就是說我們這個八年的人口政策接近尾聲其實這個分數不及格"},{"start":833.68,"end":863.019,"text":"不及格了政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生啊但是呢我們看到了很多狀況你說我在鄉下我看了很多啊學校合併啊社區老化為什麼會這樣小紅起馬他的誰料酒你看像你你看現在全台出生人口預估13萬創新低連台東人口跌破21萬出生是死亡的五分之一啊"},{"start":865.13,"end":887.184,"text":"2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生他們2015年是地方創生元年我們2019年我們也是地方創生元年日本抓30年我當然現在我們才幾年的時間我們不敢期待看到巨大的一個效果可是我們現在都辦了活動居多了少子化他不是生的少"},{"start":888.274,"end":912.052,"text":"而更是留不住也回不來對鄉下來講就是這樣子那我要請教院長跟國會我們下一期的規劃是這樣的問題我們不要只停留在補貼了你像比如說你現在要人口政策應該進一步應該是引人回流吸引人才來你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的一個政策"},{"start":912.873,"end":930.565,"text":"也已經核定了 你是三大據點台北 台南跟台東那我要講的就是說你這個執行的重心如果都偏向活動的話你很難達到這個效果了你說你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留台人數跟你整個創業的一個轉"},{"start":960.167,"end":960.687,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝莊委員 謝謝卓院長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":765,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時33分）謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：卓院長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：院長好。我想本席今天的質詢將圍繞在整個產業的轉型，到企業人權跟社會正義，但是首先想從最近一個關於價值的問題來請教卓院長，就是這兩天中國國民黨黨主席，也就是本院的前同事鄭麗文，他出席了50年代白色恐怖秋祭追思慰靈大會，其中追思到一位最有名的就是被判定為白色恐怖時期共諜的吳石，我要請教院長的就是，對於在野的政黨領袖公開參與共諜追思，我不曉得你的看法怎麼樣，我相信國人同胞一定會覺得一邊嘴巴講著反共保臺，一邊跑去追思共諜，甚至於在我們過去成長背景裡常常會看到好多標語──保密防諜、人人有責！講了好幾十年沒有蔣介石跟國民黨，就沒有現在的臺灣！結果現在連蔣介石的誕辰，我看黨主席連一篇文都懶得發了，寧願去追思共諜。我不曉得這到底是哪一個版本的中國國民黨，是臺灣的國民黨，還是北京的國民黨？","所以我要請教院長的就是，你對於在野黨的領袖公開參加這場共諜的追思會，身為中華民國最高行政首長的卓院長，你的態度、看法怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：我表示遺憾！因為一個中國國民黨的主席，當他知道中國共產黨正在大力吹捧吳石，甚至要求他的涉臺人員要學習吳石精神的時候，竟然不避諱地去參加這個組織所舉行的活動，會讓我們覺得跟民眾的距離太遙遠了。尤其這幾天討論的熱度是非常高的，但是仍然阻止不了中國國民黨主席去參加這個活動，表示他不在乎社會的觀感，不在乎歷史的定位，也不在乎對岸用吳石的精神要加強對臺灣統戰的事實，跟人民的距離實在太遙遠！"],["莊委員瑞雄：我認為院長這樣的答復，你個人是太過於厚道了！"],["卓院長榮泰：我今天早上講很多了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我認為連主席臺上的副院長一定會有很大的感慨，過去江啟臣副院長也擔任過中國國民黨的黨主席，我想你一定有一個感觸，過去不論是馬英九也好，或是韓國瑜也好，至少在蔣介石誕辰的時候會去獻個花、去弔祭一下，有的甚至跑去謁靈，起碼維持一個歷史上的一致性！但是看看現在中國國民黨的黨主席，我看10月31日蔣介石的誕辰也隻字未提，但那是國民黨的家務事，問題是轉身去向共諜致敬，我看蔣介石地下有知的話，看到現在這些徒子徒孫，他一定也是覺得不勝唏噓！","但重點是對於國人同胞的看法是，這樣一個政黨，反共的旗子還沒有放下，忠誠就先投降，這個會導致整個國家的錯亂！剛剛院長所提到的，北京當然在大吹大家要學習吳石的精神，對北京來講，共諜從來就不是一個罪名，甚至會認為共諜本來就是為他的祖國在效命！但是相對我們臺灣而言，這些人是在滲透我們的自由體制，破壞我們民主社會的敵人！","所以本席要在這個地方提醒，當中國用經貿、宗教、媒體，甚至文化在滲透臺灣的時候，在臺灣的每一個角落，我們有這樣的風險的時候，臺灣各個政黨領袖的任務其實是捍衛整個國家的意識。所以院長這樣的答復，我雖然覺得……"],["卓院長榮泰：早上的答復我可以再說一次，我說共諜是要消滅國民黨、消滅中華民國的，這是共諜的工作，這跟我們所謂的政治犯、思想犯是不一樣的，而且身為國民黨主席，他應該知道歷史，也知道現實，當中國正在大陸吹捧吳石的時候，他已經陷入這種統戰的過程當中，所以大陸加強統戰的結果就會出現！因此，保衛中華民國臺灣主權跟安全的工作，已經沒有辦法由黨主席所帶領的中國國民黨身上看到，他已經跟這個理念背道而馳了！所以未來政府應該跟國內所有自由民主人士更加強對中華民國臺灣主權安全的保障，我們必須要堅持這個原則！"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝院長表達這樣嚴正的態度。","接下來請主席邀請國發會主委，還有經濟部部長。"],["主席：經濟部部長、國發會主委，請。","國發會主委今天請假，由副主委代理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，我想請教你一件大事，我們捷安特被美國查過貨品，你應該知道嘛！這個是我們臺灣企業第一次因為勞權的問題，被美方把貨品扣住了，這個不是企業倒楣，我認為這是國家品牌很重大的危機。美國的海關說捷安特踩到了強迫勞權11項指標裡面的5項，這不是小事情，這是一個國際上的警訊。事情一發生後，業者跑去跟外交部，我相信也有跟經濟部還有勞動部來求助，甚至於拜訪監察院，我在司法及法制委員會質詢的時候，特別要求監察院不要在我們業者受苦、受難的時候，還從後面再去補刀。業者來求助的時候代表是他們慌了，但重點是政府能幫他們什麼？請教部長，經濟部現在實際上介入是協助了什麼？有沒有一個跨部會的機制，一起來幫企業釐清事實，來改善國內企業的制度？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，因為這算是一個個案，事實上美方之前有馬上讓我們知道這件事情，我們也跟美方討論過，這個他們強調是個案，我們也嘗試聯繫……巨大也想說我們怎麼樣去跟美方做說明，所以我們也跟美方來表達，然後也幫他們介紹律師看要怎麼樣來處理？美方也明顯地告訴我們說，因為這個是個案，是個案跟美方邊境管制局兩造的事務，希望我們政府先不要急著介入，但是我們幫他們做了這些事情，後來巨大已經跟美國相關人員見面也做了說明，因為這個只是暫時處分，最後的結果還沒有判定。"],["莊委員瑞雄：本席認為這件事情非同小可，不要小看它啦！你去看看，這個最壞的情況會是什麼呢？對一間這麼大的企業營收最少降5%啦！貨品卡在那個地方二到三年，光捷安特一家可能就蒸發掉30億啊！這個影響到的不是只有這家公司，還有整條供應鏈都會被拖下去，現在TBA的公會已經在動，美利達也準備要去改善。剛剛部長你這樣的回答，當然是有一點圓融！像因應美方、美國政府的要求，可以把事情給解決掉，這也是一個方法。但是政府不動起來，看企業自己在那個地方救火，本席還是表達很擔心啦！","這個只是美國喔！你看接下來歐盟CSDDD上路，人權就是新時代貿易的通行證，現在不只美國，歐盟也動起來啦！去年通過一個新的指令，「企業永續盡職調查」的指令，就是本席剛提到的CSDDD，白話講就是把供應鏈的人權跟環保的要求寫進法律，2027年就要上路。就是說臺灣的企業，只要接了蘋果Apple或者Nike這一些大品牌的，通通要遵守這套法規，這個不是一個選擇題，到最後這是一個強制的！部長，對這些國際的新規範，現在的還有2027年就上路的，我們如何未雨綢繆？我相信我們政府會有自己的一個時程，比如從114年開始，營收超過500億的製造業上市櫃公司要開始做人權盡職調查，116年起成果要公開在永續報告書上。但是本席要強調就是，我們不能出事情之後才開始在補破網。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我剛剛雖然講巨大是一個個案沒有錯，但是通案的部分，我們已經跟勞動部協商，要怎麼樣來因應所謂的強迫勞動這個議題，強迫勞動的範圍滿廣，對臺灣來講，很多是我們立即就可以改善的，比如職場的環境、工安等等的情況，但是最主要還是移工的問題啦！我們現在遇到的問題，本國勞工比較沒有問題，是移工的問題。移工現在比較麻煩就是仲介費的問題，因為仲介費是對方國的仲介拿走，但是對全世界來講，還是覺得雇主要全部負責吸收，這個部分我們跟勞動部正在討論看看怎麼樣去因應，有一個緩衝期還是怎麼樣，但是終究要處理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝部長。院長，我要提的就是政府應該是當企業的靠山，這一些大型企業，捷安特巨大在臺灣、國際上都算非常有名的，企業都已經夠大了，但仍有很多產品不是它自己做，還是有很多供應鏈。我所謂政府當企業的靠山，意思就是底下那些供應鏈呢？你說巨大、你說捷安特、你說美利達，達到它自己的這些人權指標了，那底下的供應鏈呢？我的意思是政府，尤其是經濟部對這一些中小企業該輔導的部分，要未雨綢繆、要準備好，不然新的制度上路以後，我相信這不只是企業的危機，到最後會變成臺灣品牌的一個危機，請院長簡單地答復。"],["卓院長榮泰：這方面跟委員答復，第一個，委員剛剛提到，人權是國際貿易的一張門票，我非常認同，沒有達到人權的要求，我們要進到國際社會都很困難，況且要談到競爭，這是第一個部分。","第二個，雖然這個案件剛剛部長講是單一的事件，但我願意、政府願意從單一事件來做全面性的檢討，請經濟部、勞動部就所有的勞動條件跟他的勞動保障，要做全面性的檢討，也希望提出一個指引，讓大家可以共同遵守。","為什麼？因為第三個部分，就是我們現在有推出企業與人權的國家行動計畫第二期，這個就是要生產者跟它的供應鏈都要達到人權的標準，所以當中有企業實施人權盡職調查，這個調查非常重要，我們會分公司的大小，分層次按部就班、循序漸進地來要求。但總結最後就是達到委員說的那句話，人權標準要達到國際的標準，我們才能夠順利進到國際市場。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝院長。我為什麼請國發會主委上來呢？我記得經濟部部長龔部長在當國發會主委的時候，我在院會質詢時，對於我們少子化的部分，我就一直在追，問過了兩次。我國少子女化的對策計畫從107年到114年，就要到了，剩一個多月而已，也就是說8年的人口政策接近尾聲，其實這個分數不及格，政府沒有辦法去強迫人家生，但是我們看到了很多狀況，我在鄉下看了很多，學校合併，社區老化，為什麼會這樣？消風了嘛，就生得少。你看現在全臺出生人口預估13萬創新低，臺東人口跌破21萬，出生是死亡的五分之一。","2014年日本首相安倍提出地方創生，他們2015年是地方創生元年，我們2019年也是地方創生元年，日本抓30年，當然現在我們才幾年的時間，我們不敢期待看到巨大的效果，可是現在都辦活動居多，少子化不是生得少，而是留不住、也回不來，對鄉下來講就是這樣子。","我要請教院長跟國發會我們下一期的規劃，因為時間的問題，我們不要一直停留在補貼，比如說現在人口政策應該進一步，應該是引人回流，吸引人才來，你們現在有一個叫數位游牧新型人口的政策，也已經核定了，三大據點是在臺北、臺南跟臺東，我要講的就是這個執行重心如果都偏向活動的話，你很難達到效果，你至少要有一個中長期的KPI去追蹤留臺人數，跟整個創業的一個轉化，少子化會讓我們臺灣變老，但是至少你現在提出的這個數位遊牧政策讓地方變年輕。","我期待國發會龔主委現在當部長，前8年做得不夠的地方，你們要延續下去，把整個政策具體落實，不要只有辦活動，錢花掉了，可惜，消風啦！"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：報告委員，我們不是放煙火，我們有整體的計畫，還有一站式的服務。"],["莊委員瑞雄：也要去檢視成果。"],["卓院長榮泰：數位遊牧可以讓我們召集更好的國外優秀人才來，這個也是我們計畫當中，我們會加強。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，謝謝卓院長。","李柏毅委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員李柏毅書面質詢：","一、中油總部實質南遷議題","目前進度：","1.中油為配合南部企業大樓興建，已於今年5月成立「總部南遷推動專案小組」。","2.中油說明，南部企業大樓座落於臨左楠路側商業區A2街廓南坵塊，占地約1.25公頃。這棟21層樓建築初步規畫以取得綠建築、智慧建築鑽石級標章為目標，期待完工後成為該區域指標性建築。","3.今年5月已啟動基本設計工作，根據中油提供的時程規畫，預計2026年完成都市設計審議，2030年全案完工進駐。","4.至於中油總部南遷議題，中油高層目前仍無意願實質南遷。中油認為公司設施與員工遍及全台，南遷涉及層面廣泛，通盤考量、審慎評估有其必要性。","中油實質南遷優點：","1.台積電高雄設廠後，包括全球六大供應商都需要營運總部、服務據點，在台積電廠區15分鐘內可抵達、可做總部或研發地點並不多。","2.長春石化、李長榮化工等重要基地都在高雄，如果能搭配推動淨零、數位轉型過程，高雄是最好營運基地。","3.配合宏毅、宏南宿舍劃定都市更新單元，闢建產業型社會住宅，增加捷運站周遭土地使用強度，就近提供中油、台積員工居住外，也增加鄰近地區商業機能。","質詢問題：","台積電P1廠已在2025年第4季正式營運量產，且其他廠房（P2至P5）則按照預定時程穩步推進，也預計於2027年完工，中油是否可以加速全案完工的時程？以及中油南部企業大樓目前規劃進駐的層級為何？有無與相關學術研究機構合作培育人才的計畫？","二、高雄楠梓中油宿舍用電問題","議題背景","1.過去高雄煉油廠（五輕）旁中油宿舍區，現仍居住不少中油公司退休員工，中油為回饋員工，民國93年中油向台電申請高壓供電，一戶11.4kV，總計1157戶共用電號，並將社區規劃為工業用電。當年的美意經電價調整後卻成了今日的負擔，工業用電調漲與電費累進制下，居民反而必須承擔最高級距的電價，且多次與中油、台電協調未果。","李柏毅委員與中油、台電就電價議題協調歷程：","✓113/03/27中央政府總預算經濟委員會主決議提案，建請中油在該宿舍區改為民生用電計費前，應與宿舍區居民溝通，並積極與台電公司溝通合理計費方案。","✓113/06/18李柏毅、邱議瑩委員召開中油社區電費計價轉型研商會議。","✓113/06/28向行政院卓院長榮泰書面質詢爭取介入協調中油社區之電費計價轉型。","✓113/7/16李柏毅、邱議瑩委員與經濟部國營司、中油公司商討「中油社區電力供應相關議題」協調會。","✓113/09/11上次會議中，中油提供電價試算與前次會議討論方向有所出入，故再邀集國營司長及中油副總經理會面商討。","✓113/11/12辦理「中油宿舍區電表設置相關說明會」，發放「中油公司煉製事業部宿舍區改低壓用電意願調查表」。","✓113/11/19「中油公司煉製事業部中油宿舍區改低壓用電意願調查表」，結論為居民希望中油、台電盡快處理電價問題，將現有用電改低壓用電，或改變目前電價計價方式。","✓114/10/12中油宿舍電價協調會，邀集中油張敏總經理、林麗玲主任、宏毅里馮靖絨里長、後勁勞宅自救會廖威博秘書長，中油公司與宿舍區住民達成共識：","共識一：","以勞工住宅租賃契約內容文字以及精神，請中油公司依契約書執行。","共識二：","至民國120年間，中油公司與勞宅住民雙方會尋求各種方案，包含與台電協調，分區改回民生用電。","質詢問題：","建請行政院卓院長、經濟部龔部長督促中油公司、台電加速勞宅區改回民生用電，保障住戶權益。請問中油公司115年-120年將勞宅宿舍分區改為民生用電相關時程？","三、電纜地下化議題","1.針對颱風重創西南部電力設施，行政院長卓榮泰日前提到，將啟動全國電纜地下化先期評估，但因為特別預算的執行時間僅2年，對台電來說是很大的挑戰，需跨部會合作，初期將以省道為主。","2.今年及去年已有多次颱風自西南部入侵，造成相關電力設備嚴重毀損，國安韌性特別條例中，特別針對供電韌性提撥200億元，其中131億元將用於強化重要科學產業園區的供電，並以雙回線備援的方式，至於提升輸配電線路防災韌性的預算為61億元，可望遷改路線約145公里，最後則是完善輸配電的修護，經費為8億元。","質詢問題：","高雄的科學產業園區，特別是楠梓科技園區，因為涉及到我國高科技發展，以及台積電駐廠的用電需求，其中專門用於強化科學產業園區的131億特別預算對於楠梓產業園區目前有無計畫如何使用？並請回覆相關評估報告、時程至委員辦公室。"],["主席：報告院會，經濟組之質詢已詢答完畢，上午會議進行到此為止，下午2點30分繼續開會，進行財政組之質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時50分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","吳宗憲","賴瑞隆","顏寬恒","林楚茵","賴士葆","黃捷","何欣純","陳亭妃","丁學忠","劉建國","莊瑞雄","李柏毅","林德福","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃珊珊","林楚茵","呂玉玲","麥玉珍","鄭正鈐","王鴻薇","郭昱晴","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","羅美玲","范雲","李坤城","張雅琳"],"page_start":85,"meetingDate":["2025-11-11"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00004","1149101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00005"}}}