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謝謝跟各位黨團幹部報告跟各位工作夥伴報告現在立法院學會期間因為我們接到了民進黨黨團要求召開協商那協商的內容就是關於第14屆考試院人事同意權以及國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意權等二案"},{"start":2007.09,"end":2023.504,"text":"民進黨黨團的要求我們召開這一次協會期間的我們正式朝野協商那在這裡特別感謝各位黨團幹部播種參加也要跟各位黨團報告報告一下我們國民黨黨團傅坤吉總召因為家裡面"},{"start":2024.605,"end":2026.266,"text":"請民進黨黨團先發言針對這次所提的人事案,請"},{"start":2050.181,"end":2064.329,"text":"謝謝院長、謝謝各黨的同仁首先先跟大家也表達一下歉意因為總召他的身體微恙所以這是他參加幾百場協商我想第一次他沒有辦法到場"},{"start":2065.339,"end":2065.919,"text":"謝謝院長今天就依本檔在8月2號的發文"},{"start":2082.851,"end":2101.279,"text":"希望針對考試院人事同意權、NCC的人事同意權的處理邀集各黨的黨編一起大家來共議那我也先說明一下NCC的人事同意權是4月30號行政院送到立法院那在7月12號已經赴為審查"},{"start":2104.62,"end":2120.694,"text":"那考試委員的人事同意權案是5月31號總統府依程序送達立法院也在6月7號就已經赴為審查這個是之前兩個議案、兩個人事同意權都應當已經進入"},{"start":2121.715,"end":2125.718,"text":"上會期的演會期間韓院長召集了一次朝野協商也依循著那一次朝野協商的結論各黨都簽字同意上會期是演會到7月16"},{"start":2148.257,"end":2164.703,"text":"但是呢在這個7月16為什麼訂7月16研會也就是在5月16的朝野協商的那一場會議上大家有了一個基本的共識雖然它沒有化為文字但基本上它是一個前提才會去影響我們做成研會到7月16的這個決定而那個協商裡頭的共識我手上有著上一次5月16號"},{"start":2173.226,"end":2193.065,"text":"兩點零七分到傍晚的七點三十一分那是馬拉松的協商那一天大家都辛苦了那一群的那一天的共識不管是民眾黨團的黃珊珊副總召或者是國民黨團的傅坤祺總召都在協商的過程當中表達上會期就處理哪些議案那合宜的時間點因為那時候還在討論說因為"},{"start":2195.627,"end":2221.739,"text":"卓院長要上任那卓院長的實證報告的期間那也預留了是不是有專案報告的時間所以大家中整之後認為研會延到7月16號可以處理哪些事而沒有辦法未竟能夠在上個會期處理的就是人事同意權所以在5月16號的協商裡頭不管是副總召或是黃珊珊的副總召也都有一個共識性的發言"},{"start":2222.359,"end":2248.734,"text":"就是人事同意權應當就是臨時會再來處置雖然它沒有落為當天簽字的這個結論但是它是連帶的、連動的影響了大家共同決議七月十六年研會的一個重要前提所以民進黨今天召集我們請求院長召集這個協商也就是延續上個會期末的協商結論人事同意權就是立法院我們共同的法定的義務"},{"start":2249.995,"end":2272.994,"text":"我們必須各黨一起來善盡這樣的一個責任來進行審查那我們就希望依著5月16協商的結論用臨時會的方式來處理就我們的認知當時是各黨都有一個這樣的默契在這是第一個我們請求院長來召集協商是不是用臨時會來處理的一個理由"},{"start":2273.717,"end":2284.025,"text":"當然第二個理由我想我再次強調人事同意權不管是行政機關的NCC乃至於縣政機關的考試院都是"},{"start":2285.188,"end":2308.673,"text":"立法院應當擅盡的憲法憲政機關的忠誠義務各黨都應當一起來透過審查來做出同意或不同意的決定所以我們都共同有責任那當然民進黨團作為執政黨我們也更急切的也擔憂NCC如果沒有辦法在法定期程"},{"start":2309.053,"end":2309.353,"text":"主席"},{"start":2328.018,"end":2334.083,"text":"民進黨團的立場我們還是希望大家共同來找出合一的時間點合一的方式趕快來行使人事同意權所以也謝謝 再次謝謝院長的召集也謝謝各黨黨編今天一起來討論那我們聽取大家共同的決議一起來進行"},{"start":2358.714,"end":2384.284,"text":"謝謝吳斯堯委員幹事長的說明接下來我們請國民黨團發言然後民進黨團請準備感謝院長今天確實雖然是休會期間但我們休會不休息其實我相信各委員也都在不管是基野選區或者是我們之前希望地方的考察會刊等等我們都有做陸續的安排"},{"start":2384.904,"end":2410.211,"text":"包括就連行政院長卓榮泰明天也會到本席的選區去視察我已經爭取非常久那終於水落石出有這個明目的1054到第二期的建設所以其實雖然休會但我們不休息不過真的很感謝院長在8月2號接到民進黨團的這個要求協商之後我們盡速來召集協商"},{"start":2411.332,"end":2418.864,"text":"剛剛聽了民進黨團的代表講了一席話之後我們還是聽不出民進黨的意思是什麼"},{"start":2419.844,"end":2445.717,"text":"他到底是要用臨時會的方式來做人事還是說下個會期、正式會期來做人事我們還是不了解啊身為執政黨其實大家都已經把我們的行程給排開了今天坐下來那請執政黨先開誠布公講一下嘛為什麼會這麼說因為其實臨時會我們有相關的規定不管是憲法或是職權刑事法裡面都有明確規定兩個要件一"},{"start":2446.437,"end":2472.966,"text":"遇到重大事件發生二、四分之一委員以上的聯署要求來召開臨時會我們之前已經開宗明義講了國民黨身為在野我們絕對不可能幫行政部門的人事來做背書或是安排也因此我們絕對不會主動召集臨時會那民眾黨之前也有開過記者會也有宣布他們的一個立場"},{"start":2473.846,"end":2500.444,"text":"那所以說現在就看是民進黨他們是不是有提出四分之一委員的一個連署要來召開臨時會那以及第二更重要的事情重大事件發生我想當然NCC的委員是行政機關考試委員是我們院進機關其實都重要可是他算不算是重大事件因為其實這個人事本來就已經可以推敲人事到期本來就可以推算嘛"},{"start":2501.044,"end":2515.71,"text":"再者我覺得執政黨的委員也不用用這種大帽子甚至有民進黨黨公職的人士開始在放風聲放消息說如果不通過的話影響到考試考生的一個權利"},{"start":2516.63,"end":2545.408,"text":"其實我們委員馬上就找出來國家考試很重大但是典事委員、命題委員跟月見委員早就已經選任並且半年前就已經籌備了所以如果說8月31號假設上一波這個到期的考試委員真的到期即便是正式會期來做一個這個考試委員的審查的話可能都不會影響到我們今年9月到年底的國考"},{"start":2546.926,"end":2558.464,"text":"所以我覺得這應該要先說明清楚不要給外界一個錯誤的訊息說8月31號如果說考試我也沒有辦法上任的話我們國考會影響我想我們有一分證據說一分話"},{"start":2560.86,"end":2582.905,"text":"應該要說明清楚那再者 如果說真的因為說會影響到考生的權益那是不是某種程度上也是 綁架 情緒勒索我們就變成說我們立法院一定要同意啊考試委員 考試院提出來的這個委員名單即便他是不及格的 即便他是不如人意的 即便他是有瑕疵的但是 因為害怕會影響到"},{"start":2584.165,"end":2603.528,"text":"全國民眾的考生的一個權益所以好像立法部門也要摸著鼻子我們也要放水我想不應該所以先說明清楚考試委員8月31號不會影響到今年到12月的相關的不管是中央考試或是地方考試"},{"start":2604.854,"end":2629.275,"text":"那再者我覺得考試委員這邊我們從5月31號送進名單6月7號就已經復為了立法院沒有任何的拖延5月31號進來之後最近一次的程序委員會6月7號就已經復為了但從6月7號到7月16號會期結束之前民進黨團沒有再提出任何請求說需要來做討論嗎"},{"start":2631.152,"end":2652.231,"text":"NCC委員更是如此NCC委員我們還是要釐清因為本席以及黃國昌委員都利用總質詢時間來質詢過行政院長我們說責任政治行政院長第一次5月31號被我們質詢的時候我問他NCC委員他能不能同意這四位提名他說他不知情"},{"start":2653.516,"end":2677.022,"text":"再來他說他會在最短時間內重新提出名單所以你既然行政部門院長已經在總實軍的會場跟述我們說你會再重新提出名單了我們當然不可能讓原本有的四個名單進入到副委審查嘛所以沒有過程序委員會是因為這個樣子而卓榮泰院長一直沒有提出新的名單直到"},{"start":2678.155,"end":2697.801,"text":"直到7月9號黃國昌委員一樣在用他的總諮詢時間的時候來請教卓龍泰院長卓龍泰院長才勉為其難說他願意為四個名單背書那四個名單他願意背書之後我們在最近一次的7月12號三天後的院會我們就讓他復委"},{"start":2699.381,"end":2721.374,"text":"所以立法部門從頭到尾沒有延宕行政部門所提出的人事的相關審查事件都是因為行政部門自己的延宕那更何況行政部門在這段時間一直用媒體來放話講說NCC人不通過的話iPhone不能買有這個道理嗎?"},{"start":2722.844,"end":2740.036,"text":"我説實在話資訊要講得清清楚楚明明白白NCC委員通不通過跟iPhone沒有直接關係跟所有電信相關的產品原本有的審查制度沒有任何的關係也都可以用相關行政來處理"},{"start":2741.653,"end":2759.583,"text":"好 所以我們的立場已經表達非常清楚了我們不可能主動提要開臨時會那是不是院長今天要來做更超前的討論九月第二會期開始之後我們要什麼時候開議我們等一下尊重院長的一個材料"},{"start":2760.043,"end":2760.143,"text":"民進黨黨團提議"},{"start":2779.693,"end":2779.993,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2803.815,"end":2823.927,"text":"事情把它給釐清說明清楚時間順序說明清楚我想讓外界也一目了然知道我們在做的事情該做的專業審查嚴格把關我們不會因為政黨而有所移動但是我們希望所有事情都說明清楚以上 謝謝"},{"start":2826.682,"end":2848.912,"text":"謝謝國民黨發言已經表達得非常的清楚了接下來我們請民眾黨黃國昌總召請發言然後請民進黨團請準備謝謝院長因為今天看到我們黨團協商的主題是研商第14屆考試院人事同意權國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意權等二案"},{"start":2850.512,"end":2864.598,"text":"那因為在休會的期間提出要研商這兩個案子那到底是什麼時候要處理這件事情從這個開會的事由跟協商的主題目前是看不出來"},{"start":2865.891,"end":2891.423,"text":"只不過說在秀會的期間當中有媒體的朋友有詢問說我們針對召開臨時會來處理這兩個議案的看法針對這件事情臺灣民眾黨黨團非常的重視所以我們開了兩次的黨團會議全體的成員大家一致的決議是我們反對在月底的時候透過召開臨時會的方式"},{"start":2894.206,"end":2921.254,"text":"來處以這兩個人事同意權理由是對台灣民眾黨來講去審查不管是考試委員NCC委員這本來都是立法院的職權沒有錯但我們在7月初的時候我們就已經公開呼籲說要趕快處理這件事情我們主張研會當時民主進步黨黨團是表示反對的"},{"start":2923.427,"end":2951.886,"text":"就讓我們覺得很困惑從考試委員、考試院正副院長被提名進到立法院來以後我們從來沒有看到說有哪一次執政黨、立院黨團說這個事情很急我們趕快來排會處理甚至到7月初的時候很清楚地看得出來剩下的時間不夠"},{"start":2953.749,"end":2972.779,"text":"我們建議研會他們也反對然後等到開始休會的時候利用八月底對外放話說一定要召開臨時會處理這個要不然立法院就違反了我們在憲法下面的義務這對我們來講是不可承受之重也恕難接受"},{"start":2983.956,"end":3010.924,"text":"如果按照這樣子的邏輯那你豈不就是要趕鴨子上架嗎?如果8月底以前我們沒有同意通過的話造成所謂的考試院空轉竟然變成了是在野黨的責任基於這樣子的理由我們在兩次我負責任的跟院長報告兩次的黨團會議全體成員到場我們針對這件事情表達了意見"},{"start":3013.044,"end":3040.316,"text":"臺灣民眾黨八位委員立場一致反對透過召開臨時會在八月底的時候用趕鴨子上架的方式來處理這兩樣人事同意權ACC人事同意權的部分整個過程剛剛洪孟凱委員也做了清楚的說明我就不需要再贅述但我們要特別提出來的事情是"},{"start":3041.877,"end":3069.965,"text":"在NCC組織法三讀修正通過以後目前行政院卓榮泰院長經過了三催四請一再拜託好不容易在院會裡面他才願意背書的翁柏宗主任委員被提名人他不符合NCC組織法被提名的資格更要見"},{"start":3071.616,"end":3100.351,"text":"這不是要不要實質審查的問題你要先符合刑事的要件才有實質審查的問題嘛那今天行政院到立法院目前擺在檯面上面等著大家實質審查的主任委員翁伯中根本不符合NCC組織法三讀修正通過以後的消極要件在不符合消極要件的情況之下"},{"start":3103.179,"end":3128.857,"text":"請問我們要進行什麼樣的實質審查行政院該做的事情是把這個根本不符合消極要件的翁伯中提名撤回去重新提符合要件的NCC主委被提名人立法院進行實質審查才有意義嘛那否則我們進入實質審查的時候面對翁伯中要說什麼"},{"start":3130.199,"end":3158.473,"text":"它根本就不符合三讀通過的NCC組織法所規定的消極要件那所以我們大家都投反對票這樣有意義嗎那既然要進行實質審查的話我們還是希望行政院負起責任把符合資格要件的NCC主委被提名人名單送到立法院來那這樣子的話我們開始進入NCC人事同意權實質審查的時候"},{"start":3161.36,"end":3181.603,"text":"大家才不會沒有辦法理解說那請問我們現在針對這個主任委員的備提名到底要實質審查什麼事項那以上這個是針對有關於人事同意權以及開臨時會這樣子的議案我們台灣民眾黨黨團黨團會大家一致的決議那如果現在大家覺得說"},{"start":3191.397,"end":3215.11,"text":"我們立法院的確還有很多該做的工作沒有做其實也不只有是人事同意權啦我們7月初的時候就這樣講啦有很多事情都沒做完我們建議研會也沒有人答應那沒關係啊我們立法院還有這麼多的事情沒有做完那我們就早點開議嘛"},{"start":3217.335,"end":3244.581,"text":"就沒有必要按照以前的往例說要到九月中甚至九月底再來開議我們就早點開議嘛我們九月二號的時候不就報到了嗎九月二號、三號報二號、三號二號、三號兩天報到那沒關係啊那我們就第一個禮拜二號、三號兩天報到那大家"},{"start":3245.734,"end":3272.009,"text":"如果召開開議的時間大家有共識的話我們就9月6號就開議啊沒有必要拖到9月中9月底啊早一點開議啊趕快開始工作啊以上謝謝台灣民眾黨團黃國昌總召發言接下來請民進黨請20分好 謝謝主席喔我本來是期待今天大家不要講過去啦我們就好好來坐下來講問題"},{"start":3274.485,"end":3301.063,"text":"那如果剛剛聽了孟凱委員跟國昌委員的發言那我真的是那事實還是得還原跟釐清啦我第一階段的發言已經說了我手上拿著的是5月16號朝野協商的會議記錄這是公文書所以7月16號的研會是各黨同意的上個會期的會期末是5月底"},{"start":3301.98,"end":3328.529,"text":"各黨同意研會到7月16號沒有人反對研會而研會到7月16號是各黨簽字同意的而協商結論上也有黃國昌總召您的簽名那我必須把當天各黨黨編在協商會議上的發言如果大家不信任吳斯堯所說的那我就把"},{"start":3329.229,"end":3344.003,"text":"各黨黨編在該場協商會議上的發言我逐字的來朗讀一下好嗎黃珊珊副總召當天的發言是我擷取她的重點她說"},{"start":3346.26,"end":3375.031,"text":"我們就很具體的建議是民眾黨很具體的建議先訂一個研會的時間點後面用臨時會來處理因為這個會期是2月1號就開議非常長如果一直又要開到8月民眾黨覺得可能時間太長如果按照新的院長也是主委院長上任之後的總職群再加上可能安排兩次專案報告會有6個禮拜的時間一直到7月中了"},{"start":3375.771,"end":3392.562,"text":"所以民眾黨認為七月中的研會點是一個適合的時間點之後再以臨時會來處理人事同意權或有特殊需要的話的其他議題可能這樣對於各個委員的時間安排比較妥當"},{"start":3393.883,"end":3420.364,"text":"所以民眾黨認為如果一下子研會延到八月我覺得這對很多委員包括國會外交的一些安排可能都沒有辦法進行所以黃珊珊副總召說是不是就具體建議直接訂一個研會的時間點在七月中這是黃珊珊副總召當天的發言那副坤祺總召的發言比較簡短我來簡略說一下"},{"start":3422.029,"end":3432.062,"text":"國民黨也回應一下剛剛民眾黨黃珊珊副總召所提的如果民眾黨希望在7月中能夠確定把時間開出來敲定研會的時間的話那國民黨現在就建議暫時研會到7月16號"},{"start":3438.869,"end":3452.628,"text":"副總召請了韓院長,所以院長,我們比較完整的做法是不是可以暫定在7月16日至於剛剛柯建民總召民進黨團所提的人事同意權的部分"},{"start":3454.23,"end":3476.224,"text":"我也回應一下剛剛民眾黨已經提到的就用臨時會來處理好不好是不是可以這樣子請院長才是這是副會計總召的發言所以院長才透過那一天5月16號就依循各黨的共識才是上個會期研會到7月16號所以針對研會的時間點不要現在還在這裡說不是事實的話"},{"start":3482.608,"end":3509.693,"text":"當天大家共同決定研會到7月16號是三檔簽字而它的共識前提就是人事同意權就是臨時會來處理OK我在這裡我沒有想要再挑起什麼樣大家的情緒只是大家提了我就必須還原事實第二個我也要還原事實NCC的人事同意權就是在"},{"start":3511.321,"end":3528.41,"text":"對面的兩個政黨的委員你們在臨時委員會以及在院會阻擋了八次議事錄都可以查就是如此那7月12號他就是正式復委八次的"},{"start":3529.386,"end":3548.95,"text":"主卻以後7月12日正式復委既然進入審查了大家就應當進入審查的期程跟啟動程序而不是剛剛黃國昌總召說的他對於個別的被提名人有意見他就針對個別的被提名人要求行政院退回已經進入審查程序了"},{"start":3551.531,"end":3568.174,"text":"就叫起剛叫不來現在你自己立法院各黨團已經副委審查一次名單是四位在NCC的部分現在又說要針對個別委員這個沒有道理嘛 院長好 那我現在講回來今天的主題"},{"start":3571.277,"end":3600.743,"text":"人事同意權的行使透過審查去行使你的同意或不同意這是憲法規定的立法院的憲政機關的法定義務所以各位朋友不要再說這是民進黨的責任這是執政黨的責任不論在朝在野我們都是立法院行使憲法法定的人事同意權的職責是我們共同的責任"},{"start":3603.599,"end":3619.333,"text":"剛剛孟凱說 欸 上個會期 啊你們考委送進來了 五月底送進來了 啊也沒有看到民進黨一直來要求呼籲趕快審查啊現在是怎樣 哪個議案 哪個預算 哪個人事同意權進來 民進黨要叫幾天 一天三天"},{"start":3621.295,"end":3640.288,"text":"投擲拜託 中途拜託 暗示拜託 大家來拜託來審查一下 沒必要這樣嘛這是我們共同的一年嘛 任何一個法律案 任何一個預算案 任何一個人事同意權 送到立法院就是我們共同的職責審 不審 審能不能過 或是審要怎麼樣調 修正"},{"start":3642.984,"end":3671.875,"text":"大家取得共識不是一定要民進黨一直拜託一直拜託然後我說真的孟凱我每天在媒體上拜託每天碰到你也拜託你就真的認為你們就願意坐下來審查嗎所以這不是誰有沒有用力拜託的事情這是朝野共同的責任第二個進入人事同意權的審查乃至於透過審查去行使同意或不同意不是單方面就是背書"},{"start":3672.955,"end":3695.751,"text":"更不是所謂什麼放水我相信大家基於立法委員的專業職責都會認真的來審查這幾位被提名人的是任與否絕對不是進入審查程序就是在放水或是要求你們背書沒有這件事沒有人在勤勒我們只是要求履行我們自己立法委員"},{"start":3696.872,"end":3699.175,"text":"最後一項我想要說很多事情不要倒果為因"},{"start":3715.339,"end":3732.757,"text":"考試院他們針對下半年因為每一個國家考試都要前六個月來啟動、準備所以下半年的考試有四項包括初等考試包括醫事人員這一類的有醫師、中醫師、牙醫師護理師、社工師、營養師"},{"start":3738.208,"end":3764.575,"text":"然後還有一類是官務考試、身障的特考、國軍上校以上的轉任考試這個是9到12月要啟動的、要進行的而這些剛剛洪孟楷說、洪委員說你下半年都已經在進入程序了沒有什麼不行使同意權就辦不了考試因為下半年9到12月的考試是上半年就啟動他們叫做請辦作業嘛"},{"start":3767.082,"end":3795.095,"text":"所以他們當然是本來就是要做但是如果我們沒有想方設法盡可能在8月底完成考試委員的人事同意權的話影響的是明年度的國家考試而每一個國家考試依據的都是典事法對不對典事法就是考選部要報請考試院去核定典事委員會然後典事委員長再由考試院院長來提然後進入他的這些程序"},{"start":3796.621,"end":3823.419,"text":"所以當然如果考試院他也必須未雨綢繆啦如果人事同意權沒有辦法儘早來通過的話他們當然也要為明年上半年的考試及早去做一些有沒有什麼權宜之計可是這都逾越了某種程度權宜之計是沒有辦法就照著典事法那麼嚴謹的程序我們不就是逼人家國家考試的未來的事法性可能受到挑戰那影響的是考生的權益"},{"start":3824.744,"end":3852.294,"text":"所以這是一個如果考試院沒有行使同意權會連帶影響的事情這是事實不是誰在恐嚇誰不是誰在情樂誰不是誰在對媒體放話那如果這樣的話我們人事同意權都不需要訂一個法定其成了嘛如果就各位委員認為說沒有行使也沒有關係啊你們自己想辦法不要來情樂不要來放話Come on我們都不要講這些情緒性的話"},{"start":3853.584,"end":3868.082,"text":"那民進黨就在上個會期末就已經說也依循我剛剛唸給大家的發言協商上各黨邊的發言不是只有民進黨訴求說用臨時會來處理人事同意權"},{"start":3870.223,"end":3887.995,"text":"因為現在民進黨不是國會多數,我們不是自己提出連署四分之一,我們就可以開成會以前確實我們是國會多數的時候,我們可以自己提案,直接院會、全院委員會直接表決我們有信心,因為我們過去是國會多數"},{"start":3889.42,"end":3915.741,"text":"但是現在國會多數是藍白兩黨所以要開臨時會不是民進黨單一政黨主張就可以開的成所以就為什麼我們需要院長來召開協商大家坐下來討論所以剛剛我們立場還是希望如果能夠臨時會來處理那這樣當然是避免兩個機關的空窗期把它縮短影響變小"},{"start":3918.162,"end":3941.209,"text":"至於能不能開得成,當然就要看大家的意見所以這需要協商,也需要院長來調和、頂賴當民進黨想要跟大家坐下來,好好朝野對話的時候請大家收到我們的誠意收到我們對於各個政黨合作的這份努力如果這樣,我如果在這裡拿,民進黨都拿一個就連署"},{"start":3944.5,"end":3944.52,"text":"黃國昌議員"},{"start":3975.421,"end":3976.202,"text":"請接收到民進黨善意的國民黨團二次發言好不好"},{"start":3996.121,"end":4020.312,"text":"好 謝謝院長我想各位這個黨團的幹部我想其實要召開臨時會固然該是要講說我們在過去有提到說要用臨時會來處理人事同意權的問題但是各位你要想一想現在面臨一個非常重大的問題一個很重大的爭議現在如果要進行人事的這個同意權的行使"},{"start":4021.112,"end":4038.4,"text":"你要是用舊法還是新法因為我們新法已經三讀通過了而且經過總統公佈了這是現行有效的法律所以舊法我們現在等於說沒有法源依據來對我們相關的人事審查來做行使"},{"start":4039.58,"end":4060.95,"text":"為什麼說沒有法院依據?因為我們三讀通過的法案,因為你們申請了是那個大法官的憲法訴訟不管是中通府啦、監察院啦,或者民進黨立法院黨團的連署所以大法官竟然對暫時處分,說做出處分啦、做出裁定啦,暫時停止適用新法"},{"start":4061.79,"end":4088.78,"text":"所以目前我們整個對於人事同意權行使啊可以說沒有法源依據啊你舊法根本不可能適用嘛因為新法已經經過立法院三讀通過只是你這個憲法法庭把這個裁定暫時適用不是說它無效它還仍然是現行有效的法律所以在這種情況之下是誰造成說我們法律的空窗期是誰造成的"},{"start":4089.58,"end":4102.94,"text":"我想就是不管是總統府、監察院或者民進黨團你們要負最大責任甚至大法官你當時作出暫時處分你沒有考量到說這個會有這樣的一個法律空窗期的一個問題"},{"start":4104.986,"end":4130.324,"text":"所以今天我們就實質來講的話今天要召開這個臨時會就面臨到這個問題阿你到底要適用這個哪一個法律阿來做香港的一個審查所以我想大家要深思阿所以我認為其實這個整個事件看起來我想執政黨要負最大責任以上 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來請民進黨發言我請問一下民進黨還要三次發言要齁我們請民進黨二次發言 謝謝"},{"start":4133.384,"end":4156.97,"text":"謝謝院長我其實一直覺得黨團協商就是大家把自己的立場講清楚了以後那有共識就按照共識進行嘛那沒有共識就按照議事規則處理嘛我其實不太希望把黨團協商當成是一個好像是在政治攻防甚至政治攻擊甚至人身攻擊的地方因為這樣真的不是一個很健康的狀態"},{"start":4158.442,"end":4187.451,"text":"那第二個事情是說對台灣民眾黨來講那個沒有什麼拜不拜託的問題我們剛剛在發言的是就考試委員的人事同意權從進來到現在那沒有拜不拜託的問題有哪一次提案說要開始進行全院委會的審查沒有啊從來都沒有啊那第二個事情是黃珊珊副總召她今天因為有其他的公務"},{"start":4188.629,"end":4215.184,"text":"他沒有辦法來參加但我覺得拿著他那個時候在黨團協商的一段發言要給台灣民眾黨戴一個這麼重的帽子無法承受之重沒有辦法同意我為什麼這樣說黃安副總裁那個時候在可能是5月16號吧他講的那段話就基於善意事情沒辦法處理完那就先延到7月16號"},{"start":4216.892,"end":4242.832,"text":"但我們提出呼籲希望能夠繼續研會是7月初的事情這個有很清楚公開資訊的記載我們到7月初的時候就知道事情沒有辦法處理完我還公開的呼籲說考試委員同意權的審查NCC委員同意權的審查處理不完嘛處理不完我們就研會繼續處理"},{"start":4245.482,"end":4273.972,"text":"當初反對的就是民主進步黨啊當時我沒有聽到民主進步黨的說啊 這個審查人事同意權啊是我們立法院作為憲政機關的憲法職責啊我們當然應該要什麼趕快繼續研會來處理人事同意權的問題啊NCC不能空轉考試院不能空轉所以民主進步黨絕對支持研會來審查考試委員跟NCC的人事同意權沒有啊"},{"start":4275.455,"end":4300.444,"text":"他們那時候直接說的就是他們反對那到底是誰不願意履行憲政機關的職責不要給台灣民眾黨扣一個這麼大的帽子我再度重申今天珊珊委員沒有在現場我覺得不能沒有人幫她講話要不然欺負一個人不在現場的人我覺得並不公平她當初就是善意嘛"},{"start":4301.567,"end":4323.061,"text":"到5月16號的時候事情處理不好我們就延會到7月16號嘛但我剛剛在講的就不是5月的事情啊7月初的時候我們看整個立法院院會進行的狀況院會進行的進度就很慢啊延宕了非常多次啊我們7月初的時候就說啦"},{"start":4329.141,"end":4349.138,"text":"那你說審查人事同意權是我們立法院共同的指責是 沒有錯所以我們在搜查會提出這樣子的呼籲嘛但同意人事同意權能不能夠同意這件事情那是另外一回事喔能不能夠同意是另外一回事喔"},{"start":4350.311,"end":4369.333,"text":"否則的話我們不管什麼時候審人事同意權變成的是這一批人不管他適不適任我們如果不同意的話導致沒有人出任那個位置造成了憲政機關的空轉那豈不是準備要把立法院當成立法局嗎"},{"start":4371.118,"end":4391.05,"text":"但我還是要拉回來因為今天其實來這邊我真的不想講這麼多因為有很多全部都是公開資訊大家每一個公民心裡都有一把尺都可以去做客觀的評斷每一個人都可以有自己的想法但我還是要再度重申說我不希望把黨團協商的現場"},{"start":4393.559,"end":4420.786,"text":"變成是在進行政治攻防這個沒有意義啦真的沒有意義嘛你的案子是什麼你想要的案子是什麼你提出來那看其他的黨團是不是同意大家同意有共識就很好沒有辦法同意那難不成你要逼人家同意嗎每一個黨團有每一個黨團各自不同的立場那不同的立場各自對選民對社會負責任"},{"start":4424.855,"end":4437.303,"text":"那最後因為這個是黨團召開過兩次委員的會議八位委員全體一致做了這樣子的決議所以我必須要負責任的跟院長講"},{"start":4438.706,"end":4465.385,"text":"反對召開臨時會是我們的立場但我們贊成九月的時候提早開議那如果是二號、三號要報告的話我們就九月六號嘛九月六號星期五就來開議趕快把立法院不僅僅是人事同意權啦還有一堆延宕的改革法案跳票很多年的改革法案"},{"start":4466.803,"end":4480.482,"text":"到了委員會審查可能都缺你們一腳過完委員會以後進入院會就可以完成二讀跟三讀了那個是跳票了好幾年的法案也是我們很關心的改革法案那趕快積極的來做"},{"start":4483.731,"end":4506.96,"text":"謝謝黃國昌委員發言,我特別開始懷念柯總召了他怎麼不在現場感覺酸辣湯少了胡椒的感覺啊現在我們請民進黨第三次發言,請黃國昌總召說在5月16號黃珊珊副總召的那段話是當時的善意,其實我們非常同意"},{"start":4509.762,"end":4524.798,"text":"當時各黨團其實在那次的協商裡面對於怎麼安排研會的時程跟人事同意權要怎麼來處理其實都表達了善意所以我覺得我們沒有要去否定當時是出於善意就像當時剛剛司法委員講的"},{"start":4528.161,"end":4549.729,"text":"副坤祺總召也在現場做了相關的表示其實也是善意所以也因為大家都有那樣子的善意我說那個善意是基於大家有一個希望尋求共識的意念在那個意念之下其實大家會有一個共同的期待那個期待就是到了這個研會到7月16號然後這個"},{"start":4552.91,"end":4553.15,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4568.49,"end":4591.059,"text":"在8月接下來的時間裡面召開臨時會來處理人事同意權問題我們站在一個執政黨的立場上我們也接收到在5月的時候大家做那個表示的善意所以我們當然還是會有這個期待所以剛才孟凱委員說你到底民進黨有沒有想要召開臨時會我在這邊可以說我們還是有這樣的期待的"},{"start":4592.299,"end":4607.96,"text":"但沒有錯,確實現在民進黨我們已經不是單獨過半的國會最大黨所以到底這個臨時會開跟不開現在也不是民進黨可以自己單獨決定的事情可是我們還是要說我們有這個期待"},{"start":4609.001,"end":4632.401,"text":"至於司令委員剛才又講到說都是因為你看你們提請市縣要求暫時處分所以造成這個法有部分被宣布暫時處分等等的事情其實我真的覺得我自己真的期待假設我們可以再一次共同有善意的話"},{"start":4633.737,"end":4634.057,"text":"立法院黨團提議"},{"start":4662.141,"end":4679.307,"text":"作為一個法治國家來說是一件好事嗎?所以我要說這個我們都不想再去做爭辯了可是我們比較希望是看向未來的部分希望大家能夠還有善意希望接下來處理這兩個人事同意權一樣能夠保有一個善意但是就民進黨來說我們確實還是期待能夠在臨時會的時候"},{"start":4687.015,"end":4706.056,"text":"召開臨時會來處理人事同意權但當然以現在我們在國會席次的結構裡面當然要尊重兩個政黨這我們當然一清二楚所以我覺得這部分還是請院長可以來做我們來做相關的討論但我也很希望這討論就像剛剛國昌委員說的我們繼續能夠保持善意"},{"start":4707.438,"end":4711.663,"text":"謝謝沈漢偉的發言接下來我們國民黨團要求第三次發言我們請洪書記長發言"},{"start":4720.305,"end":4748.392,"text":"本來我不想提 但是既然民進黨的代表就已經把5月16號的這些協商然後也 富坤吉總召他今天沒有到現場那他們剛剛也念了富坤吉總召當時的話我覺得還是要還原一下現場以及我們今天第一次聽到說民進黨的代表從頭到尾又是善意 又是期待 又是尊重那我們想問從5月16到現在到底民進黨有沒有尊重在野"},{"start":4750.257,"end":4778.055,"text":"5月16剛剛民進黨的代表一直講這個時間點我覺得這個時間點很好啊民進黨的代表好像忘了過去這兩個月你們怎麼樣在立法院發起了九波暴力的衝突內政委員會有做什麼樣的一個杯葛然後三讀通過的法案你們提起釋憲然後在憲法法庭這個針鋒相對政治操作好像都忘記了"},{"start":4779.738,"end":4805.671,"text":"五月十六當時為什麼會有這樣的一個君子協議或是君子默契是在於我們認為是說大家可以坐下來後續的研會到七月十六大家回到那個時間點五月十六的時候我們在講是研會到七月十六那大家後續的院會卓榮泰院長上台報告後續的院會我們依照新任的政府我們做總諮詢"},{"start":4807.152,"end":4829.545,"text":"約有十次十次完之後還保留了兩三次的院會可以做相關的法案去做處理那如果說真的到7月16沒有辦法處理完的話那也許我們八月的時候人事的部分再來可是建立在幾個前提第一前提大家均值協議嘛每一次開會大家照拼照拼比人頭不是比拳頭嗎"},{"start":4830.956,"end":4841.55,"text":"才講完不到12個小時啊5月16的協商出來之後5月17開始九波大衝突啊那九波衝突在哪一次是國民黨先發動嗎沒有啊"},{"start":4845.478,"end":4871.376,"text":"我們講善意5月16我們釋出了善意結果不到12個小時5月17民進黨怎麼樣做然後之後的四次院會我們這過程我們都不要贅述了但我講的是說這個是單方面已經當一個黨團他沒有尊重其他在野黨團或是說當我們認為是說大家可以坐下來好好的用表決去表決的時候就不願意的時候那沒辦法好"},{"start":4874.045,"end":4876.933,"text":"拉回來剛剛幾個癥結點我覺得還是要重申"},{"start":4879.878,"end":4905.364,"text":"一直講說我們在程序委員會NCC委員有八次沒有讓他副委那個前提也是一樣就是行政院長到底要不要為他的人事來背書這四個委員我們那時候一直強調的是行政院長因為這很重要行政院長的提名權如果行政院長認為說這四個委員是夠格他願意來背書的話我們什麼時候行政院長同意我們就來副委"},{"start":4906.244,"end":4929.615,"text":"所以八次的程序委員會沒有讓這四位陳建仁前院長提名的NCC委員進入到副委那是因為我們認為卓榮泰院長卓榮泰院長自己也講是說他不知道這個提名的過程那我們要求卓榮泰院長確認這四個委員的資格何錯之有當了行政院長可不可以有點肩膀"},{"start":4931.107,"end":4940.3,"text":"你不願意為這四個委員背書然後結果一定要在野陣營一定要立法院趕快來審查那不是本末倒置嗎然後我必須要說"},{"start":4944.488,"end":4968.948,"text":"我們現在在討論的是說要不要臨時會我也認為如果說臨時會只是現在民進黨是要又要再拿5月16但是忽略過去這兩個月的一個狀況然後就是硬逼著就是我們在野陣營都要來做臨時會不管怎麼樣我們要加開這很像什麼很像搶了銀行的搶匪之後來問銀行的這個櫃檯說啊我當初要領的100塊你怎麼還不給我莫名其妙嘛"},{"start":4974.432,"end":4980.125,"text":"所以我認為主席今天我們在這邊我們還是要確認一下幾個事情第一"},{"start":4981.787,"end":5005.041,"text":"審查權我們一定會審查在不管是只要有開會的時間能夠有審查的部分我們身為立法委員我們一定會行使審查權所以不會延宕審查權開會的時候只要有排入議程能夠審查的時候我們一定會審查問好問滿但是審查權不代表同意權"},{"start":5006.002,"end":5034.523,"text":"所以審查完畢之後如果到最後我們認為說這樣的一個委員這樣的一個名單是不符合人民標準而我們沒有給他同意的時候這也是立法委員的權利但請不要執政黨現在用這樣子的一個方式講說如果他在到期的時候沒有上任的話延宕空轉人民權益受損那不就代表是說我們一定提出什麼樣的一個人事我們一定要同意"},{"start":5035.387,"end":5058.229,"text":"沒有這回事再者我們開宗明義就講了甚至我們現在也把考選部歷年針對明年的公告公職考試日期的規劃也把它列出來考選部在每年八月中旬就會確定隔年的考試日程計劃規劃換言之"},{"start":5062.086,"end":5086.327,"text":"過去七年都是在八月中包括八月十五、八月十三、八月十二就已經把明年一整年的國家考試計畫給公佈出來也確定出來所以換言之是什麼意思就是這一批的考試委員如果說在八月三十一到期之前他們也會把明年的國家考試日程都給規劃出來不會有特例 不會有延宕"},{"start":5088.01,"end":5105.482,"text":"換言之不會影響到我們國家的人民要去做公職考試的權益至少明年不會影響那如果我們在9月的正式會期再來做考試委員的一個審查即便假設到9月底新任考試委員才通過"},{"start":5106.603,"end":5118.633,"text":"還不一定全額通過但是我講的是說審查完畢請使同意權真的通過的話上任新任考試委員他們也會做的是後年的考試規劃的安排"},{"start":5119.611,"end":5140.186,"text":"所以並不會影響 並不是只是不影響今年的年底的考試包括明年的國家考試規劃基本上也不受影響這一點我必須要核心說明這樣子才能夠讓所有看直播以及了解關心我們立法院的人士知道說立法院不是立法局"},{"start":5141.345,"end":5168.351,"text":"知道說當行政院送出來的名單或者是考試院送出來的名單立法院有審查權我們一定會用審查權而且我之前講過我們一定專業審查嚴格把關但是審查權不代表同意權什麼時候用審查權那就是開會的時候排列議程我們就用審查權那後續我們也一定不會延宕的來做進行以上謝謝謝謝洪孟愷書記長的發言接下來請問台灣民眾黨要三次發言嗎"},{"start":5170.033,"end":5170.333,"text":"請副市長補充"},{"start":5188.427,"end":5191.588,"text":"民進黨還是希望臨時會議能夠來處理但是也透過今天的協商的發言清楚知道兩黨的意見"},{"start":5207.054,"end":5207.475,"text":"進入審查之後透過"},{"start":5223.781,"end":5248.599,"text":"審查的程序讓每一位立法委員對於被提名人的資格、理念有更進一步的了解再來行使個別立委的同意或不同意所以絕對不是單方面的背書更不是放水這個本來就是ABC啦那我有一件事情只是要補充一下就是說考試院對於國家考試這件事情真的是非同小可"},{"start":5250.581,"end":5266.079,"text":"確實今年會公佈明年的那幾項考試就如同我們知道2026要選縣市長我們知道2028要再選總統跟立委但是那個請辦作業需要新任的考試委員來啟動"},{"start":5268.516,"end":5296.098,"text":"所以未來的2026的地方縣市首長選舉跟2028的總統或立委選舉也是中選會要依一定的期程去啟辦它所以在考試委員叫做請辦在其他的機關辦理其他的事項是啟辦所以這個不是說排定了考試的期程因為排定考試的期程是要讓考生來準備我哪一年度幾月份我要應考這就是像每年大學聯考一樣"},{"start":5297.69,"end":5323.215,"text":"我們那個年代叫聯考,現在已經不是用聯考這個詞所以說這個東西還是要講清楚,考試委員依典事法,它有一定的程序我們不能因為我們自己這樣想說沒問題啊,那說不好啊,就可以扮得很損失不是這樣,我們要尊重其他憲政機關去嚴謹地行使它的機關的忠誠義務所以我做這個補充,這個不是我們要去講得很嚴重而事實上它就是有這樣的程序"},{"start":5324.475,"end":5346.941,"text":"不是只列了期程就可以辦理那個考試就能夠順利就是考生的權益憲法保障人民的工作權跟應試權我們不能夠立委無視於這個事所以我們還是期待臨時會那剛剛有其他委員提出其他時間點其他權益的方法那我們看看院長的才事那也謝謝大家未來就一起進入審查來進入"},{"start":5350.583,"end":5377.063,"text":"總召請補充不是啦 因為既然可以補充的話 那我也補充嘛民主進步黨黨團口口聲聲說考試委員很重要考生的權益很重要要趕快來進行審查我剛兩次發言我已經說得很清楚了從名單送到立法院來我從來不在乎什麼拜不拜託實體下拜不拜託 這根本是根本就不是個事嘛"},{"start":5378.456,"end":5401.071,"text":"那重點是什麼民主進步黨何時提案說來排全院委員會審查什麼時候提過這個案子而台灣民眾黨反對的從來沒有啊你要進入全院委員會審查他不是坐在那邊空的就可以審查欸要有黨團提案欸要把他排進去欸"},{"start":5403.663,"end":5429.989,"text":"根本從來沒有過這樣的提議啊就放著時間不斷的走啊甚至我們七月初的時候說來研會啊處理考試院委員的人事同意權、NCC委員人事同意權民主進步黨悍然拒絕然後等到時間過了到八月底的時候開始突然想起來考生的決議很重要要給大家扣一個這麼大的帽子我再說一次啊不可承受之重"},{"start":5431.691,"end":5442.115,"text":"我猜啦 柯建民總召現在 因為他膝蓋嚴重受傷 30年來第一次缺席朝野協商他看了電視機 他一定非常著急這個召開全院審查委員會 民進黨不是秘書處 民進黨不是議事處 立法院又不是民進黨開的 這個我們怎麼進行來處理呢 謝謝 請院長採訪"},{"start":5452.199,"end":5480.048,"text":"各位所有親愛的黨團幹部謝謝大家在休會期間趕來立法院我們一起參加小禮協商非常感謝那電視機前面的柯建民總召也請一併聽清楚那我在這邊做正式的宣告第一各黨團對於召開臨時會有不同意見可不請各黨團我們就依法提出權力還是在回到各黨團的身上那我們來院本部這邊我們來進行處理第二本會期最後一次院會"},{"start":5481.644,"end":5487.63,"text":"上一次會議及最後一次院會有通過國情報告相關決議,不過針對邀請的時間,各黨團並沒有明確。我請各黨團溝通之後,我們再來辦理後續的事宜。"},{"start":5506.928,"end":5510.57,"text":"如果沒有叫我們簽就好第一個就是說這要開了就先給他處罰"},{"start":5540.285,"end":5560.638,"text":"因為院長也宣告散會了這個結論可能大家再思考一下因為院長我要補充一下剛剛從頭到尾沒有講到國情報告我提到國情報告嚇一跳這樣我們今天主題又沒有國情報告我們今天主題主題今天主題是講兩個人事同意權院長這裡有個國情報告這個我們"},{"start":5565.184,"end":5585.663,"text":"好,沒關係,院長已經宣布散會了,我們民進黨會,民進黨會比較,對不起,針對主席的宣告,各黨團對於交開臨時會不同意見,可否請各黨團委員在進行處理的這個部分是符合今天的協商主題啦,那第二個國情報告這個我可能在,這個不太,好好,謝謝,好"},{"start":5613.134,"end":5619.217,"text":"好 沒關係 我知道我知道 我只是要想說欸 有什麼國情報告剛剛那一張 我拍一下雖然沒有現在 還是要給我一下"}]},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[],"term":11,"id":"黨團協商-2024081330","type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商"},"會議時間":"2024-08-14T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院黨團協商（事由：研商有關「第14屆考試院人事同意權」、「國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意權」等二案(民進黨黨團提議)）","委員發言時間":"09:45:00 - 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去書店找《質感說話課》跟《質感對話課》那我自己的第三本口語表達跟身心相關又更深入了跟身心相關的書在9月1號會出版那個是探索更深因為我剛剛私下跟月盈還有副處長聊天你們上個禮拜進修的主題是跟霸凌那些有關嘛"},{"start":2226.314,"end":2240.663,"text":"所以其實很多的溝通、衝突或是大家彼此不了解彼此其實跟身心的很多的體會跟感受或是解讀很有關係所以那是我第三本研究的主題但是今天我們談的比較多是跟質感說話有關那我們就慢慢來所以這個如果你喜歡看數據的話因為很多同仁應該平常很喜歡看數據這是我的簡單的一些資料"},{"start":2254.151,"end":2271.918,"text":"那比較特別的是曾經有兩年我那時候在蘇州有參與了TED的演講一次是主持女性大會一次是擔任年度大會的講者所以這個是女性大會那一次的畫面這個是場地這個順便剛好問一下大家因為這個跟說話有點關係請問你們目測這個場地可以容納多少人它沒有二三樓你們就隨便想到丟一個數字出來"},{"start":2283.687,"end":2308.722,"text":"兩百嗎五百有再多一點嗎介於一千跟五百之間很好這個場地可以容納八百我等一下告訴大家為什麼需要知道這件事這個是我當年度大會講者那一年的主題我講的是言語的溫柔力量就是今天我們說話不光是一個武器不光是我們今天要職場生前事實上"},{"start":2309.662,"end":2333.14,"text":"每一句話都可以當作一份禮物送給別人可以對這個世界更好所以這是我當年倡議的主題所以這些年一直都朝這個方向去邁進那這個場地是我當初當年度大會講者的場地它比剛剛的場地可以容納更多人然後它跟兩廳院一樣它是有二三樓的所以你們目測一下你們覺得剛剛那是八百人這邊可以容納多少一千二還有更多一點嗎"},{"start":2337.748,"end":2365.783,"text":"非常好,但是沒有獎品因為我們都大人了,我們不需要靠獎品這個可以容納一千五那為什麼要問大家這個問題呢?因為說話是這樣的可能很多同仁你們會覺得今天我們要學習怎麼樣更好的溝通我們就是要把資料準備好然後我們要很有自己的道理然後好好跟別人說但很多時候有一件事情很重要"},{"start":2366.443,"end":2385.491,"text":"你們所在的場地很重要像我今天我其實非常早就來到這邊然後我就是去感受立法院的這個空間九樓的等一下我要跟大家相處的這個場地所以場地的大小它會影響你說話的幾件事情它會影響你說話的音量"},{"start":2386.531,"end":2400.204,"text":"他會影響你說話需要調配的語速他會影響你說話需要的音頻的高低但是大部分人因為不是研究這一方面也不覺得很重要所以你有沒有發現"},{"start":2401.645,"end":2421.604,"text":"即便是委員們啊或什麼的你會發現大家其實在任何的場地講話會是一個樣子比方說他就是那麼大聲他就是小聲不了然後他就會跟別人說我以前到現在都是那麼大聲這個就是一種習慣可是事實上是可以調整的我們可以根據很多的"},{"start":2422.285,"end":2436.762,"text":"注意 很多的練習 很多自我的覺察去意識到首先我們在什麼樣的一個空間場域我們是跟誰在對話那麼你的聲音 包含你講話內容的質感就會不一樣"},{"start":2437.723,"end":2459.63,"text":"那個東西就很不一樣所以大家就可以感受一下待會因為會有一些小討論小演練所以你們也可以感受說你們今天平常是在自己的辦公室可是今天是在這個大的那個禮堂然後跟你的同仁可能已經都見了20年了就很熟可是不同的場地質感是不是聊起天來感覺不一樣等一下大家可以感受一下"},{"start":2460.75,"end":2468.176,"text":"我們立刻來做一件事情現在請看一下你的左鄰右舍你們彼此熟嗎?"},{"start":2472.113,"end":2472.714,"text":"請你找到一位"},{"start":2494.051,"end":2517.91,"text":"左鄰右舍就好或是你想要跨到對岸也可以就跨到別的地方也可以找一位兩兩一組我們先分好組兩兩一組先找好我再告訴你們要做什麼事情兩個人一組兩個人一組無論是長官或是同仁請大家參與這個小小可愛的演練不然來了都來了不做演練不是很無聊嗎一直聽我講很無聊啊好 OK好 可以嗎"},{"start":2520.503,"end":2532.019,"text":"好 那如果就好是兩個那如果沒有兩個的話 三個也可以但是兩個最好 兩個最好 OK 好好 找好了嗎 找好了嗎 可以齁都找好了喔"},{"start":2535.407,"end":2560.216,"text":"好 我們來做一件事情有沒有看到這個投影片上寫的讓我們認識彼此但是中間有個刮鬍叫做重新為什麼叫重新因為可能在座你們有些是已經自己同事很久有些可能不認識 有些認識所以如果認識的就是重新再認識對方不認識的就是第一次認識對方那要做什麼事情"},{"start":2561.636,"end":2586.522,"text":"等一下我會給大家四分鐘的時間這四分鐘等一下先雙人物照雙人物照大家開始興奮要聊起來對不對開始要聊貓長官或是主任追劇的內容嗎不是等一下的這四分鐘無論你們聊什麼內容請把握幾個原則第一個不能用紙筆做記錄不能用手機或筆電做記錄"},{"start":2588.291,"end":2604.465,"text":"再來請在聊天的過程中找出彼此的三個共通點沒有三個兩個也可以但是不能說我們都在立法院工作這樣太侮辱各位了也不能說我們都是男的"},{"start":2605.686,"end":2606.167,"text":"四分鐘請開始Action"},{"start":2632.509,"end":2634.192,"text":"四分鐘 四分鐘那我會幫你們計時"},{"start":2665.835,"end":2667.476,"text":"欸 你們可以聊一聊還是你們說不說OK"},{"start":2744.449,"end":2746.533,"text":"要記得找出共通點喔 共通點喔"},{"start":2843.221,"end":2844.542,"text":"好 最後一分鐘 把握時間"},{"start":2875.247,"end":2892.203,"text":"好來無論聊到哪裡我們先暫停來時間到時間到我發現啊我每次屢試不爽好來我們聊到哪裡都先暫停齁我覺得很有趣只要呢是坐在台下聽老師分享"},{"start":2892.944,"end":2915.993,"text":"大家的那個眼光的感覺跟有人跟你聊天一聊得還蠻起勁的那個眼神散發出來的光芒連那個坐姿都不一樣了那待會呢我會邀請一兩組或兩三組同仁來分享然後中間我會問幾個問題那我已經物色好了就是要請誰分享所以我想先請這邊的這兩位"},{"start":2922.155,"end":2928.456,"text":"對你們然後等一下呢被cue到的人要怎麼樣呢你介紹你的夥伴"},{"start":2929.605,"end":2957.723,"text":"就是你不是自我介紹你就簡單介紹一下對方是誰吧他的名字啊他的單位然後聊一點點你們聊什麼然後講出你們剛剛聊出的共通點是什麼然後其他的同仁一起聽因為其實我們在說溝通表達其實很重要的是什麼一個是說一個是聽所以待會我們所有的演練或所有的交流就是邀請大家就算沒有輪到你也歡迎可以一起聽可能會有一些很有趣的事情來"},{"start":2960.399,"end":2979.238,"text":"請站起來大家好 我是資訊處莊昏達我今天的夥伴是國立讀書館的書品我們剛剛在四分鐘的討論裡面有先聊到我們的家庭、小孩還有聊一些使用手機網路的事情還有今年要出國旅遊的規劃"},{"start":2981.42,"end":3007.156,"text":"等下四分鐘聊了那麼不愧是立法院的總理聊得非常密集的很多事情因為就是很有一個順序就從家裡家庭聊到對然後小孩然後就聊到我們手邊的一個手機然後再想看說今年暑假有沒有什麼出國的規劃那你找出來的共通點是什麼你們之前熟嗎"},{"start":3008.696,"end":3033.366,"text":"還好有業務上的一個有些業務的往來有發現什麼共通點嗎小孩都是因為他小孩比較小我比較大分享一些那個之後就學的一個經驗所以第一個共通點就是兩個都有小孩所以可以聊教育那第二個共通點第二個就問看說最近有裝什麼APP然後網路用來加的"},{"start":3033.746,"end":3055.862,"text":"請問"},{"start":3056.055,"end":3081.649,"text":"你們兩個在對話的過程中大家一起聽喔這個開始慢慢去思索很多東西你們在對話的過程中誰先開話題先啟動話題你們也可以思索一下剛剛你在跟你的夥伴對談的時候誰是那個啟動話題的人都有第一句好像我就是先問他說他結婚了沒有啊那有沒有小孩啊一開始就問人家結婚了沒有OK"},{"start":3082.642,"end":3085.485,"text":"請問在對話的過程中你有沒有觀察到對方說話時候的有沒有讓你印象深刻的肢體動作"},{"start":3105.27,"end":3125.94,"text":"或是面部表情因為他戴口罩嘛所以可能面部表情元素沒有那麼多可以觀察可是肢體動作也可以或是聲音也可以我們等待對方講完的時候好像習慣都會一直點頭好這個是一個自己有發現的習慣對那他是你剛剛的習慣還是平常你跟人家對話也會這樣你回憶一下"},{"start":3129.608,"end":3139.836,"text":"有這個習慣嗎?也會?其實跟人家說話的時候自己會點頭你自己會有意識到這個習慣嗎?剛剛他在說之前有意識到自己講話的時候會這樣嗎?沒有特別意識到對不對?好,很好,來掌聲給這兩位同仁"},{"start":3148.464,"end":3170.66,"text":"所以很有趣喔你說說話歸說話其實每個人他的一些慣性啊或習慣或是談的東西其實不同那接下來呢我想要請你的夥伴是我的夥伴是公報處3K的可怡好來那就你們聊了什麼其實我們"},{"start":3174.162,"end":3188.129,"text":"因為我是出納科的然後我平常在業務因為我是做所得稅我剛好碰到一個我在業務上面一直很困惑的一個問題然後我就發現我的聊天對象竟然是我業務上面碰到的人所以我就剛好趁這個機會就順便問他說就是我在業務上我有碰到這個問題我一直很困惑所以其實我們應該說我剛剛問的問題都是跟我業務上"},{"start":3199.915,"end":3222.211,"text":"都在諮詢是不是所以你們沒有那個延伸出聊一些共通點全部都在請教他可能還需要再40分鐘時間才會進入到下一個聊天的主題因為我那時候在想說你們聊得還蠻投入原來你都在諮詢那這樣的話我換一個問題問如果沒有機會聊到共通點那我們就來做一點小小的觀察一樣跟前面那一組一樣在對談的過程中"},{"start":3225.389,"end":3239.856,"text":"剛剛他講到的是肢體語言他會發現好像有一些點頭啊什麼的一些習慣你們剛剛在對話的時候會注意到對方哪一些聲音也可以比方說你會發現有的人講話聲音是很明亮的有的人聲音比較低你有沒有哪一些發現"},{"start":3241.616,"end":3259.091,"text":"我覺得可瑩是蠻冷靜的人因為我自己覺得我就是一個就是比較hyper的人有時你的聲音很明亮對然後所以就是我發現我跟可瑩對話我必須要讓自己就是稍微冷靜一下就那個兩個人的頻率這樣有點就是高高低低這樣對對對"},{"start":3260.612,"end":3260.672,"text":"我同意"},{"start":3290.504,"end":3306.299,"text":"可是兩個人相處的時候都會用自己的直覺來看待這件事情那剛剛可瑩的冷靜就會讓我想說天啊就是我會不會有點太攻擊到他對就是我的意思是說就是會不會讓他感覺我很突兀對然後怕說讓他不開心好那把麥給可瑩來聽聽她的那個"},{"start":3319.373,"end":3338.158,"text":"回應一下剛剛還有你有沒有一些發現對你的夥伴剛剛在對談的那幾分鐘我沒有覺得他特別嗨就很正常所以是一個舒服的好的一個對話那你有觀察到你的夥伴什麼嗎他說話的方式或是表達的習慣讓你印象深刻的就很親切"},{"start":3340.362,"end":3344.825,"text":"今天時間關係我們人數蠻多的所以不可能每個都Q起來講但是有幾件事情是可以邀請大家一起去思考的雖然"},{"start":3365.512,"end":3394.555,"text":"我不知道大家找出了什麼共通點可是為什麼這件事情很重要因為我們很多時候我們在跟別人溝通之所以會覺得不舒服、不良或者是很多時候壁壘分明就是因為我們把對方跟自己畫出一個楚河漢界就是一個分隔線但是呢你只要你有沒有發現你只要跟對方發現有一些交集很多事情其實就好談很多就像為什麼你跟你的朋友"},{"start":3395.336,"end":3412.593,"text":"聊天的時候你有時候要談些事他請你幫忙會比一個陌生人請你幫忙你要願意是不是因為你那是你的朋友然後你覺得你跟他有一些共通之處所以找出共通點他是一個我們在想要在人際關係或是溝通上可以更順暢的點"},{"start":3414.975,"end":3439.884,"text":"我記得我在因為前陣子我不是在寫書嗎那我是一個大量閱讀跟我很喜歡看電影啊看紀錄片啊看影集的人有一次呢我就看了那個達賴喇嘛他有一集紀錄片是講他就邀請很多那個腦科學專家跟就是一些學者專家然後就在討論世界和平啊等等但他那時候就聊到一件事他說大家如此不同"},{"start":3440.484,"end":3456.666,"text":"那怎麼樣促進世界和平呢然後這時候他就講了一件事我覺得很有道理他就說其實撇開國籍什麼文化性別啊這些之外其實有一個共通的元素就是我們都是人對不對所以當你知道"},{"start":3457.347,"end":3476.428,"text":"我們都是人的時候有些東西就是拉近了彼此的關係剛剛找到這個彼此共通點也是他有養狗我也有養狗我們都喜歡爬山這時候你跟對方的連結就建立起來了所以找到共通點蠻重要的我們可以思索一下剛剛你在跟你的夥伴交流的時候請"},{"start":3478.366,"end":3503.469,"text":"想一下以下這九點但是我不會每個都問我就是秀出來你們自己去做一些反思你在跟別人交談的時候未來你們在做任何工作上或是平常家庭關係的時候跟人家在互動你可以用這九點來去檢視一下自己不用隨時監控自己但是偶爾可以想一下第一件事情是"},{"start":3504.31,"end":3527.883,"text":"你在交談過程中你會注意到自己有什麼習慣性的肢體動作嗎?就像剛剛說有時候你可能會不自覺點頭有的人不自覺脖子會伸長有的人不自覺會雙手插在自己的胸前等等再來你會去注意到自己的聲調表情嗎?有的人在說話的時候不自覺他會想要用立法院應該最常出現就是你可能會在"},{"start":3529.904,"end":3555.822,"text":"這個諮詢的過程或什麼你可能想用音量去壓對方對不對所以這個聲音越大這種就是聲調、聲音表情這是一個有的時候是慣性所以會注意到這件事嗎另外你會去注意到自己說話的用字潛詞嗎其實說話是一種習慣所以你常用什麼字詞、詞彙還有語句的模型它都是一種習慣它都是習慣所以這是自己所以前三個"},{"start":3558.146,"end":3582.471,"text":"了解自己之後呢另外一個就是對方你在交談的過程中你可以注意到對方的肢體語言嗎他的一些肢體動作你可以注意到對方有哪些聲音表情嗎你可以注意到對方他用字遣詞有哪一些嗎其實真正的溝通表達高手或是像在賭場跟人家賭博的人他們其實是很會注意這些很細節的東西的"},{"start":3584.251,"end":3601.658,"text":"他不一定會攤開來跟你講可是他其實都都是點滴在心頭他其實都在做觀察還有三項你在交談過程中你還可以注意到什麼一個就剛剛我們前面講你可以注意到此時此刻你剛剛在跟你的夥伴對話的時候你在什麼樣的場域空間嗎"},{"start":3603.526,"end":3627.007,"text":"你會發現有些人討人厭就是他在餐廳一個高級的餐廳可是他沒有意識到那是一個高級的餐廳他在跟別人對話的時候聲音還是很大是不是聽起來就不讓人家覺得不舒服所以你要知道場域空間在什麼樣的一個狀態再來第二個複雜一點點你要這個是語言學的一個專有名詞就是語境說話的情境通常就是你在說話的"},{"start":3628.228,"end":3646.985,"text":"你跟對方談這件事的時候他前後聞就是整體來說你知道你們是在什麼樣的一個情境狀態嗎所以他不是只有片刻你跟對方講話這個當下你還要連結到可能往前追溯一些時間往後追溯一些時間是整個拉大的一個語境"},{"start":3648.266,"end":3654.21,"text":"你是不是有意識到這件事像剛剛你們在對話可能之前我不知道你們來之前因為我們是九點半開始來之前你們是從比方說從辦公室趕過來還是家裡剛剛那個忙完小孩要衝然後早餐吃得很倉促然後過來這個都是語境的一部分"},{"start":3666.877,"end":3683.516,"text":"你在跟你的夥伴對談那四分鐘可是前面其實你經歷了一些事情還有等一下十一點半之後你可能還要忙其他工作或是晚上有約會等等那個就是所以整體的語境它會影響當下你跟這個人對話的效果跟狀態再來"},{"start":3686.659,"end":3709.604,"text":"對話,你們為什麼要對話?像剛剛老師指派嘛,你們就做好好的對話那平常的話你在做開會,你在做任何的對談你可以去思考一下說話的目的那緊接著我們就來講這件事情就是我自己是做這個行業的我後來越來越常想說我們為什麼一定要講話呀?我們人為什麼一定要講話?為什麼一定要講話?我可以問一下嗎?"},{"start":3715.611,"end":3721.634,"text":"請問一下大哥人為什麼要對話為了溝通為了還為了什麼傳遞訊息笑人家為了什麼為什麼人要對話為了什麼對手對手"},{"start":3741.377,"end":3754.757,"text":"這個很有哲理能講話盡量講因為不是每個人都能夠講話的這個講一個感性的事情我之前去教課的時候遇到一位以前是語言治療師他以前在醫院是語言治療師"},{"start":3755.498,"end":3780.031,"text":"後來他就是退休之後他就當志工所以他就去很多單位就當助教然後我那時候教完課我就跟他在那邊分享那我是一個很容易自我檢討說我的課教得好不好啊有沒有什麼要改進我就是一個乖學生他就說玉琦我跟你說我因為以前在醫院是語言治療師會來醫院看這種科的很多他天生他的那個不管是嗓子還是表達能力狀態是有問題的"},{"start":3781.732,"end":3782.212,"text":"人本來就不是獨活的動物"},{"start":3812.031,"end":3822.403,"text":"OK 要跟人接觸對不對好 所以以前老祖先就是要圍著那個溝火然後大家就是分享故事啊然後孩子在一起吃飯這樣那人為什麼要對話呢來 我們看一下"},{"start":3827.236,"end":3848.161,"text":"有那麼多的原因其實今天原本應該我如果用我的筆電會像那個翻牌一樣會一個一個翻出來但是我的筆電好像跟這個不相容所以我用了你們的電腦所以你們直接就可以看到全部的答案這樣也好就可以在最短時間知道所有的答案所以我們為什麼要對話我們為了要獲得資訊我們為了要了解彼此"},{"start":3852.282,"end":3874.424,"text":"我們要拆解問題像其實各位同仁的工作職場其實比較常需要對話是因為你們是為了要找出一個解決方案但在過程當中你必須要去拆解問題然後解決問題然後做出一些判斷但是你看你有沒有發現我為什麼把這幾個分開來寫我不是把它合併一起因為每一次的對話不一定可以達到"},{"start":3875.445,"end":3885.315,"text":"十個全部的目的他可能這次的對話這次的開會只有拆解問題他還沒有達到決策可是他下一次他才會進入到決策"},{"start":3886.62,"end":3913.887,"text":"所以另外還有做出判斷解決問題拆解問題把它拆成三項為什麼要對話為什麼要溝通我們為了發現機會所以好的對話其實你會拓展一些可能的機會所以不是每一次的對話都是好好坐下來談我們有一個法條就制定出來或有個結論出來有時候如果你談得好你其實是可以在很輕鬆的狀況之下其實得到一些更好的機會或是更好的發展"},{"start":3915.327,"end":3936.334,"text":"前面的六項其實是比較更理性一點的是比較職場上我們其實常常會運用的接下來的四項漸漸的我們往下走的比較越來越深我們也走得越來越感性就是其實人與人之間的你要對話其實是為了要削你一些界限然後這個界限它可以"},{"start":3937.054,"end":3952.853,"text":"建立情感的連結所以我相信剛剛同仁們就是剛進到這個空間跟剛剛有跟你的那個夥伴或那兩個夥伴相處多四分鐘的聊天那個感覺可能又會在情感連結可能再多一點點"},{"start":3955.075,"end":3975.136,"text":"有的人的對話是為了要抒發情緒這個很能理解下了班之後在職場上受到一些精神的傷害所以下班要去喝一杯吃燒肉、唱歌就可以抒發一些情緒這個也是對談的一個目的最後兩項我非常想要介紹給各位同仁"},{"start":3975.757,"end":4004.647,"text":"就是這是我也是這些年來很深的體悟就是我們其實學所有的口語表達包含你們被派也許你們是不管是報名還是被派來這邊聽課聽分享可能都是還是為了工作所需但是隨著因為我看到名單有很多像很多是前輩你們可能工作的資歷是非常久的當你資歷越資歷越久我覺得有一個對話的目的是非常珍貴的就是你能不能夠透過對話可以啟發別人"},{"start":4005.467,"end":4024.989,"text":"可以去療癒別人療癒不是心理師的事嗎療癒不是那些精神科醫師的事嗎社工啊什麼不是其實你可以在好的對話是可以幫助別人去想到一下他沒想到的事情你也可以讓對方的感受其實是"},{"start":4025.97,"end":4039.399,"text":"以前可能受挫但是他其實有復原的能力那我以前不是做廣播嗎我以前訪談非常多來賓不光是明星專家企業家名人其實我也訪問很多素人在訪談的過程你就發現有些來賓他會回饋你說"},{"start":4042.381,"end":4057.116,"text":"我跟你聊的時候我以前從來沒有人問過我這個問題這時候你啟發了他一些思考這個其實就是一個很棒的對話而且你跟他的對談品質就會因為這樣就變高所以雖然同仁們是在工作上可能"},{"start":4057.737,"end":4076.763,"text":"工作比較緊繃你們需要的對話有時候比較嚴肅但是你可以用這種角度去切入以後你們的開會以後你跟別人在做對話的時候你就會知道不是永遠只有你掏心掏肺或是貢獻你其實是可以有一些收穫然後彼此可以有一些交流的所以這個是對話的目的這個是終極目標"},{"start":4080.284,"end":4100.236,"text":"這張圖片看起來很像是直銷或是那個… 傢騙集團會出現的圖片但是事實上呢 我覺得就是很有道理 所以我用了它就是實踐共好你所有的對話的目的 如果只有達到你的目的或達到對方的目的它都不會是一個好的協商或好的溝通"},{"start":4100.896,"end":4125.162,"text":"一定會有一方是覺得委屈或退讓了但是如果是實踐兩個都覺得是舒服是成立的這個對話 這個溝通它就是有效的它就會是一個有效的溝通而且是一個讓人家覺得是舒服的所以實踐共好雖然像那個傳直銷的圖片但是這張圖就是要跟大家說好 然後另外呢我們接下來我們再講一件事情"},{"start":4127.202,"end":4146.534,"text":"我不是說過因為我常去教課跟那個做訪談嘛我就發現一件事情人與人之間是這樣包含今天我們彼此見到面就為了各位我還稍微長高了幾公分穿平底鞋我只要教課演講都會穿一點跟鞋因為我比較嬌小然後會稍微打扮一下化個妝這是禮貌嘛所以為什麼好感這件事很重要"},{"start":4150.236,"end":4175.61,"text":"因為當我們彼此如果都彼此不了解彼此然後都不認識對方的時候就很像是大家聽那個收音機有沒有就是音量現在我們不用收音機現在用iPhone啊什麼音量是零的位置我們彼此都不認識的情況之下前提就是不好不壞你們對我的印象不好不壞因為沒有設定沒有先對我這個人沒有設定特別的印象我因為還不認識大家"},{"start":4176.67,"end":4201.146,"text":"所以各位的臉譜在我的腦海中也還是空白所以我們是零音量是零這個位置好隨著進入從九點半到現在十點十分我們相處了四十分鐘在相處的過程中可能帶一些演練然後我也做一些分享你們可能對我有一些不同的觀感你對你的身邊的剛剛互動的夥伴有一些新的觀感這時候如果"},{"start":4202.406,"end":4218.535,"text":"對談的好 音量從零可能變正十分正二十分它就是一個加分如果一句話 有沒有聽過前幾年很流行一句話惹怒一個行業就是一句話 比方說一句話惹怒設計師怎麼樣一句話惹怒設計師呢"},{"start":4220.39,"end":4243.091,"text":"就是告訴他說你簡單幫我隨便做一個Logo隨便做那你就當然希望他算便宜或是不要錢因為隨便做可是對於專業人士一定很火因為那是他的專業你可以跟林懷民老師說林老師你隨便跳一下嗎他一定會暴怒對不對所以這個就是屬於一句話惹怒"},{"start":4244.152,"end":4272.298,"text":"某個行業那一句話惹怒我們在場有沒有同仁是就是在進入公職一關前可能有一段時間你當過家庭主婦全職的有沒有我有朋友是全職家庭主婦如果一句話惹怒家庭主婦就是我在外面那個拼得多累啊你在家多輕鬆啊又可以吹冷氣現在外面36度多熱晚上沒晚餐吃一句話惹怒家庭主婦所以當今天"},{"start":4273.28,"end":4299.538,"text":"讓人家有好感的表達習慣很重要是因為今天你從那個原本彼此不好不壞是中立的立場中立的觀感變成負分的時候你要爬回不好不壞再進步到是有好感他需要根據國外研究他需要兩倍到三倍以上的心力才做得到時間跟心力所以不如我們一開始就是讓人家覺得有好感就比較好"},{"start":4300.459,"end":4306.746,"text":"所以接下來我們來做一件事情請你找到剛剛同一個夥伴交流一下 交流什麼呢?就是"},{"start":4311.533,"end":4329.94,"text":"你回想從過去到現在讓你有好感就是你談話對象中那個人他讓你覺得感覺蠻好的他有什麼說話習慣這不是你有什麼說話習慣是你回顧你過去到現在你喜歡的你欣賞的那些說話的對象"},{"start":4331.36,"end":4354.216,"text":"他有什麼好的說話跟表達的習慣是讓你覺得是有好感是舒服的我拋磚引玉一下在我過去到現在這個演練我做非常多次就是帶了很多班我發現有一個是排名前三名大家猜是什麼微笑也蠻前面的但是跟微笑有點接近他在臉上"},{"start":4359.847,"end":4389.159,"text":"非常好就是前三名最常出現的就是他們會覺得在對話的過程中對方是很專注的看著我的這時候他就覺得是一個很受用很好的表達習慣但是有極端我曾經教過一個也是公職人員她是一個女生她是屬於那種高敏感人大家知道國外有一個二十幾年前開始有個研究就是全球有大概20到25%左右的人是高敏感人"},{"start":4389.719,"end":4412.836,"text":"就是你對於聲光、環境、微表情這些感官的刺激、情緒的接收度比一般人敏感那那個學員就是高敏感人那他的專注眼神比一般人來講更激烈他說他要我們對話的時候要對方的瞳孔我要在你的瞳孔看得到我的倒影"},{"start":4414.141,"end":4440.8,"text":"他沒有在開玩笑他認真的然後後來呢我就問他他還在乎哪些就是讓他覺得有好感的對話的習慣結果一問之下怪怪不得了他是高敏感人嘛所以他所在乎的那些讓他舒適的覺得舒服的表達習慣都是跟感官比較有關比方說他很不喜歡人家碰他所以跟他對話的時候保持一個舒服的距離他覺得是有好感的"},{"start":4441.928,"end":4467.157,"text":"所以就如此了所以待會我會給大家三分鐘因為我們時間不夠所以三分鐘就好你跟你的夥伴交流一下對你們彼此來說哪些人他的那個口語表達習慣他的口語表達習慣你們是欣賞的然後你們共同討論出如果今天都顧不來我們都顧不來那麼多最重要的是哪一個所以也許你談了兩個你分享了三個你們共同聊出一個最重要的"},{"start":4468.217,"end":4469.457,"text":"三分鐘請開始找到你剛剛的夥伴請聽吧"},{"start":4492.982,"end":4494.144,"text":"還要回話啦那你會有就是"},{"start":4504.924,"end":4520.71,"text":"突然間很想要聊天然後就很想聽別人說什麼然後就心裡面對於這個主題是有想法的然後就會一直在問對 會問還是要看是什麼主題你如果跟我聊運動我可能沒有辦法對 要看主題我認為我絕對看主題"},{"start":4530.194,"end":4538.565,"text":"好啊 也是要啊我們不太會在路上隨便跟人家聊天啊你是會比較喜歡或是比較傾向要跟你遊"},{"start":4546.812,"end":4563.884,"text":"相處時間比較長因為我會有跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡因為我跟他的朋友聯絡"},{"start":4569.928,"end":4575.453,"text":"那如果說是同事 其實同事也會害怕嗎?那你會害怕他這樣子有過程中會不小心講錯話"},{"start":4593.63,"end":4604.262,"text":"有時候會,不管是同事還是朋友,只有出了姐妹那種才會肆無忌憚沒有在怕我覺得最恐怖的是他不會生氣"},{"start":4614.693,"end":4630.888,"text":"然後他就記在心裡面然後你就對所以我的意思是說就是有時候會覺得欸好像跟他也沒有什麼往來可是突然之間他好像就解決了對"},{"start":4639.444,"end":4657.103,"text":"對就有時候會這樣對有時候就我覺得同事我就沒有同事就覺得算了反正大不了就是不要往來而已啊所以你有覺得在對話當中沒有啦就是我覺得就是像"},{"start":4658.004,"end":4673.417,"text":"好 來三分鐘時間到你們覺得時間過得很快然後看大家聊得非常的起勁不知道是有乖乖的照著聊這個還是開始在聊追劇或是開始在討論其他的話題"},{"start":4674.838,"end":4700.018,"text":"好來 不論聊到哪裡我們都先暫停然後我一樣我很好奇我可能也是邀請一兩組來分享一下對你們來說哪些可以表達習慣是好的好 那我想要物色的是欸 大家突然在按按鈕下因為我開始慢慢走入叢林了好 我想聽你們分享一下好來 有那個麥克風嗎來麥克風傳一下"},{"start":4705.566,"end":4707.687,"text":"我是經紀委員會我們剛剛討論就是說我們就是讓人家產生好感的"},{"start":4722.492,"end":4724.673,"text":"眼睛注視對方,保持微笑眼神與有回應,二則一"},{"start":4750.387,"end":4761.982,"text":"謝謝你,來,麥給我接下來我想要聽你們的老師突然,因為現在鬼月了你們分享了什麼?先自我介紹一下好,來,那個麥,我們"},{"start":4770.066,"end":4770.086,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":4784.172,"end":4788.635,"text":"我們每次在聊天的時候就是覺得無所不談為什麼?因為我覺得我們都蠻坦誠的在跟對方講話的時候我們都很認真地聽對方所講的也會感同身受地想去幫對方來解決問題相處起來感覺是非常舒適的"},{"start":4806.829,"end":4826.346,"text":"所以你剛剛點到的幾個元素這個都是讓你覺得就是也是你們交談的習慣也是你覺得重視的對我覺得讓我感覺非常的舒服我很喜歡那剛剛的那幾個元素當中如果只能選一個最重要的哪一個最重要我覺得應該是你沒有討論嗎有一起共事還是剛剛在聊別的"},{"start":4828.155,"end":4832.721,"text":"感同身受為什麼覺得這件事情會比其他剛剛幾個元素你覺得是更重要"},{"start":4842.591,"end":4858.675,"text":"就覺得他真的有在聽你講話然後他是真心要幫你想是很重要的所以就是這件事情你會覺得他才真正重視你你才會很扎實的有這個感受對不對好所以感同身受好來滿意給我謝謝你們的分享最後一個我想要請來你們剛剛聊的"},{"start":4870.42,"end":4892.348,"text":"你們發現目前為止好像都沒有重疊所以代表其實每個人他在意的點其實會有有些東西像有些東西有個體上的差異來那你們呢我是總務處的管理科我是佩華那我們三個是覺得跟人對談的時候是那個正面回饋跟正面的那個"},{"start":4900.712,"end":4918.123,"text":"正向的回饋就是他有給你回饋而且是正向的回饋他不是否定你他不是批評你就不會讓我們的心情動一下他有接續對談的動力那你們剛剛除了這個是最後的結果其他有聊到什麼其他你們也重視的嗎"},{"start":4920.103,"end":4920.303,"text":"有禮貌"},{"start":4929.252,"end":4957.353,"text":"對還有面帶微笑面帶微笑有禮貌但是正向的回饋是最重要的好謝謝這幾個同仁的分享那剛剛呢很多同仁沒有機會分享到但是那些答案都可以放在心上為什麼需要知道這件事情這個很重要就跟剛剛前面講的共通點一樣一旦你知道剛剛講的共通點是為了要拉近彼此的關係建立彼此的連結而今天你知道"},{"start":4958.254,"end":4985.132,"text":"彼此﹐很多人的﹐在意的﹐可以表達的那些﹐好習慣﹐其實有﹐有些同﹐但是有更多的差異性﹐有的人其實沒有在意﹐對方要不要笑﹐有的人其實沒有那麼在意說﹐他沒有給正向回饋﹐他只要給中肯的建議﹐也就可以﹐所以這個差異度非常大﹐一旦我們知道這件事情﹐那麼未來﹐當你今天在跟別人做互動的時候﹐你知道為什麼常常很多人會﹐溝通到最後會疑惑起來﹐就是會不舒服﹐"},{"start":4988.214,"end":5015.329,"text":"因為他的那個表達方式不是你喜歡的但是因為這個點所以你就關閉了所有的就是感官然後你也不再願意跟他往下對話因為其實表達溝通來說最怕的一件事是你終止對話因為只要有對話就有機會對不對有機會去討論出一些新的可能性但是一旦沒有就是不要我就是不要再跟你說話了我就是不要聽了"},{"start":5016.289,"end":5042.106,"text":"那麼他就沒有後面就有點可惜所以這個是大家可以去回去可以再去思索的下一個尖銳的問題來了這個問題不用跟你的夥伴討論你只要摸著你的左心房右心室等一下舉手就可以了請問剛剛你們所分享的自己你自己剛剛所在乎的你喜歡的那些口語表達的好習慣"},{"start":5043.755,"end":5070.894,"text":"不要說每時每刻你百分之大概八九十的時間你都有做到你有做到那些你在乎的你覺得那些好的可以表達習慣的請 驕傲的舉起你的手好 不要放 舉著因為這是非常珍貴的一刻好 現在請大家看一下左鄰右舍看一下環顧全場好 謝謝你來掌聲給這幾位同仁好嗎"},{"start":5073.516,"end":5095.859,"text":"你知道 理事不爽我每次問到這個問題無論這一班他是20個人還是他是上百個人從來不超過五個人舉手從來沒有一個不管是去經濟部啊不管是去哪一個部哪一個公司 企業 大專院校都一樣從來沒有超過五個人舉手所以這個 這個"},{"start":5097.123,"end":5111.124,"text":"導出了什麼結論啊?導出的結論就是我們很在乎那些我們自己覺得口語表達好重要的那些元素但是我們自己有沒有辦法隨時能做到有些時候其實沒有辦法"},{"start":5113.006,"end":5136.5,"text":"當知道這個真相之後未來我們在跟別人在做溝通表達的時候你就可以這麼想因為有些時候因為你會最了解自己所以你會知道你為什麼做不到因為我昨天累了因為我剛剛怎麼了所以你通常會幫自己解套我做不到的原因是因為怎樣可是別人你只會說他沒有這樣做他討厭 他可惡"},{"start":5138.041,"end":5155.557,"text":"他該死所以以後大家就可以去在這種溝通有困難的處境或是對方沒有那麼如你意的表達方式的時候你就會回想說因為我們是人我們有時候會有做不到的時候那是不是再給彼此一個機會或給對方一個機會或是你多問他一句"},{"start":5157.574,"end":5184.364,"text":"有沒有什麼需要協助的嗎沒有辦法做到是什麼原因嗎那他會開拓一個彼此對話的空間而這個東西他會爭取彼此更多的體諒就會有好的結局這個是我們自己在親身經歷過我覺得很重要的一點所以那個做到自己欣賞的可以表達習慣而且是九成八九成的時間都做得到其實沒有那麼容易喔好"},{"start":5185.988,"end":5210.517,"text":"接下來我短短分享幾個案例我們就做稍微的休息然後等一下回來我們再繼續往下今天不會耽誤到大家時間不用擔心剛剛我們講到大家自己在意的一些口語表達的一些好的習慣我這邊分享一些從過去到現在我就舉幾個例子就好以前因為我做廣播跟主持所以有時候會遇到不同的人"},{"start":5211.457,"end":5212.577,"text":"以前當活動主持人的時候,大家知道這位嗎?"},{"start":5235.683,"end":5263.137,"text":"大部分不太認識,但是其實他的角色還蠻重要的大家知道黃冠文化出版集團嗎?黃冠文化出版集團,很多知名的作家都在黃冠出書他叫做平不清雲的平雲,他是平雲社長他是平行濤先生黃冠文化集團創辦人的兒子所以這些年都是平雲社長在帶領黃冠那以前因為我是藝文節目的主持人,所以我還蠻常幫黃冠主持活動"},{"start":5264.298,"end":5279.175,"text":"主持活動是他們60周年慶的記者會在金華酒店關蓋雲集還有最近要轉職做更多實育教育的米其林民俗江振誠那時候新書發表會有去幫他主持"},{"start":5280.396,"end":5296.552,"text":"活動主持人是一個看起來很光鮮亮麗的工作但是其實是一個美麗又哀愁的行業那怎麼樣在說話的時候這個平民社長他說了一個很貼心而且讓人家覺得很舒服的話呢就是在每次主持完"},{"start":5297.293,"end":5322.508,"text":"身為大家長他永遠都要跟這些貴賓去打招呼啊去張羅啊什麼的可是沒有一次例外他是一個很溫文儒雅比較偏內向的先生他都會永遠過來評社長都會過來跟我講差不多的一句話可能字句有點微調但是字句差不多就是永遠在主持人忙完然後很累也沒有人去理他因為主持人是這樣活動主持人是"},{"start":5323.368,"end":5347.132,"text":"活動前 大家會一直找他 要對流程啊 幹嘛活動後 沒有人在理活動主持人因為他們就要開始收場地啊 反正你們辦活動了解的可是評社長永遠都會過來 他就會說一句說乙齊謝謝你 每次有你在 我們都很放心而且他就是符合你們剛剛說的那個 讓人家說話有好感的元素他會眼神很專注的看著我 但是因為他內向 他不會來握我的手"},{"start":5347.512,"end":5347.632,"text":"溫惠文"},{"start":5368.208,"end":5396.108,"text":"她是雲門舞集舞蹈教室的執行長之前是執行長做了二十多年前幾年因為身體的關係所以她就是轉換了角色所以現在的執行長是另外一個我的朋友但是溫姐我們都叫她溫姐她是台灣不但是雲門教室林懷明老師欽點的執行長同時呢她也是台灣很多藝文場館催生幕後的就是參與了很多的就是幕後的一些策劃"},{"start":5397.409,"end":5414.719,"text":"我很榮幸那時候曾經跟溫姐一起工作過一小段時間還記得我之前不是去過TED嗎那時候我自己平常已經都在主持教學可是有一年我的角色很特殊我被雲門教室邀請去當他們的媒體公關但是他們說是特約的媒體公關未來各位如果有人邀請你當特約的什麼什麼"},{"start":5426.045,"end":5453.273,"text":"請簽好這個內容首先那個公關行銷沒有特約這件事他都會讓你忙24小時但是跟雲門工作是非常愉快的事情溫姐是一個很細﹑跟林老師一樣很細很細緻又有紅圖就是眼光很遠的一個女性那一年就是我當了他們的媒體公關所以溫姐被蘇州的TED的女性大會邀請去當講者"},{"start":5455.334,"end":5479.885,"text":"他們跨海到台灣邀請了女性大會的講者找了溫姐他們同時 雲門教授說因為我是媒體背景所以我就當了兩岸的聯繫人我就變成那個順便你知道老闆通常很順便他就叫我當兩岸的聯繫人也因為這樣在對的過程中他們對岸知道我的媒體跟主持的背景後來我就變成了女性大會的主持人"},{"start":5480.145,"end":5481.086,"text":"各位都有跟長官一起 主管一起工作"},{"start":5502.638,"end":5514.107,"text":"這時候常常溝通會發生一些事情有時候在溝通談一個提案這讓人家不舒服有時候會直接打槍你這樣不好不然你再去想20個來 對不對就是開始要去做一些討論但是跟溫姐工作"},{"start":5515.236,"end":5538.143,"text":"有一點很棒我覺得當一個好的領導者跟執行長他需要他的聲音跟他講話的那個方式是能夠激勵別人而不是去打擊別人的所以這時候呢因為那時候我要當他的兩岸的那個我也是他的演講教練他不用我去訓練啊他的口條非常好但是我還是幫他激盪一些TED的講題所以我就很興奮我就激盪了二三十個講題結果呢"},{"start":5540.438,"end":5541.779,"text":"這簡單的兩句話含金量很高首先呢"},{"start":5560.753,"end":5585.128,"text":"剛剛的平民社長跟這個溫姐我遇到所有口語表達溝通讓人家覺得舒服的人他有一個前提他一定會先肯定你的表現還有他一定會叫你的名字今天是因為我們時間關係我來不及認識每一個同仁當然我是一個非常喜歡記人家名字的我有點臉盲但是我是一個對文字跟名字是很敏感的我是一個很喜歡記得別人的人"},{"start":5585.808,"end":5606.262,"text":"所以名字叫出來然後你去肯定對方所以第一個他先肯定了你的貢獻我提出來的這些主題他覺得很棒但是他一定覺得還可以再思考因為有很多老闆是這樣嘛他可能還沒有別的想法他先聽你怎麼講之後再看有沒有別的好然後再來他沒有說你再去想20個來他說我們再一起想想看當然後來還是我想啦齁"},{"start":5608.203,"end":5626.272,"text":"但是他至少到當下他說我們一起想想看那有沒有其他好點子所以你看有沒有其他好點子代表什麼你前面的點子也是好的所以像這種都是一個讓人家覺得說就是溝通起來會覺得是舒服的那最後其實他們後來選了一個主題也都不是我想的"},{"start":5626.843,"end":5644.271,"text":"也不是溫姐心想出來的他們後來選的是那幾年雲門教室想要對外去倡議的一個概念就是和身體談戀愛就是以東方教育尤其在台灣我們都是一個對身體教育比較沒有那麼著重所以雲門教室他們是屬於那種要帶動"},{"start":5645.552,"end":5659.708,"text":"大家對於自己身體的一些覺察了解嘛感知啊律動等等所以他們就說你今天會跟別人談戀愛你今天會去跟你的工作談戀愛你會不會跟你的自己的身體談戀愛你會不會好好去認識你的身體好好的去做一些律動呢"},{"start":5660.469,"end":5688.681,"text":"所以後來他用這個東西因為又是代表台灣嘛就是在那個大論兵演講所以他就是用這樣的方式定了那個主題所以這就是一個很好的表達方式他肯定你然後他說我們一起來做一件什麼事情最後一個例子這個講完我們就休息我常常都說今天如果你要精進你的精進喔不是增進而已是精進你想精進你的溝通表達能力請"},{"start":5690.606,"end":5702.786,"text":"一個人去旅行我這邊做一個小民調在場所有的同仁們 長官同仁們你們就是不跟自己的家人同學朋友也不是跟團不是一個人跟團去旅行是一個人"},{"start":5703.945,"end":5726.501,"text":"自己要打點一切自己去旅行請有做過的舉手一個人去旅行也沒有到非常多我也問過非常多人我發現台灣好像還是我以為應該很多發現一問之下好像沒有到那麼多我超級鼓勵大家必要時拋夫妻給自己三天五天一天都好為什麼這件事情溝通表達會讓你突飛猛進因為在"},{"start":5730.443,"end":5752.467,"text":"在臺灣也好我第一次自己去旅行是去宜蘭然後第一次出國一個人是而且是都沒有人幫我要打點那個話是青邁就是泰國青邁就是這裡雖然因為在溝通過程先無論語言就是你要用英文這件事就是別外語不是是因為你必須要一個人解決很多事情"},{"start":5753.107,"end":5770.734,"text":"實役主席 而且他會有文化的差異你會比平常在你自己的工作場域還有在你的家庭裡面你的那個感官跟你去解讀跟去解讀去觀察別人的言行他的說話的邏輯那些你會比平常你習慣的場域你會更敏感"},{"start":5771.494,"end":5794.955,"text":"所以自己旅行的話 這個部分你會打開然後你再把這些養分跟學習跟啟發回到你自己的工作跟生活場域你的說話跟溝通的質感就會有一個質變這個是我自己經過這二三十年來很深刻的感受所以分享給大家好 那我來舉這個例子話說呢 有一年我給自己的生日禮物"},{"start":5796.38,"end":5818.177,"text":"就是去臺北這是臺北第二大城市大家不知道有沒有去過叫青邁第一是曼谷再來第二大城市是一個人文會錯的地方叫青邁我在那邊住了一個月給自己的生日禮物其中的生日禮物就是有兩天我去當大象保育公園的志工就是去照顧大象所以這個就是可愛的大象但是呢 因為我是一個人去"},{"start":5818.957,"end":5839.806,"text":"但是在我們有分組就是你去到那邊那個營隊之後就有一些人都是可能是夫妻啊或是情侶啊或是有一群大學同學他們去避呂啊我就是落單這樣那你知道人很奇妙當你一個人去旅行的時候有時候很興奮有時候又會有點寂寥當你有點寂寞跟寂寥的時候呢你就會覺得別人很吵"},{"start":5840.906,"end":5867.325,"text":"這個是一種心態影響了你的聽覺的感受判讀這樣話說呢我就去這個大象保育公園然後你看就很可愛啊大象小鄉啊什麼的這一群呢這四個女孩她們就是從美國來的大學的來壁女反正就是她們的好朋友都來壁女她們就很吵但是她們等一下我要跟大家分享怎麼樣叫做前面有一句話惹怒一個行業後面也有一句話"},{"start":5868.786,"end":5890.407,"text":"立刻改觀他們變成天使原本覺得他們很吵 直到他們說了什麼話好 我們就開始參觀嘛然後大象保育官他們就帶我們去參觀然後大象為什麼會被收留有的時候是被遊客的閃光燈閃瞎了眼睛有的是因為工作被鞭打所以就是都是一些老弱殘窮的大象被送進去"},{"start":5892.677,"end":5917.457,"text":"然後那時候呢就他們原本很吵對不對直到他們跟我說咦Mia因為我的英文叫Mia他說咦Mia除了大象之外這個園區還有收留流浪狗跟流浪貓你要不要跟我們去看流浪狗那我非常愛狗我是狗狗派但我也喜歡動物啦但我也喜歡狗狗派但是在台灣我不太敢去參觀那個對因為會很難過但是都去了他說那我們去參觀狗舍我說好啊所以我們就去這邊"},{"start":5918.638,"end":5925.58,"text":"然後這時候去參觀的時候呢你就會發現很多狗狗就這樣牠就會這樣看著你因為我們就是帶牠們去遛嘛我們的角色就是可以去看看牠們然後一人一隻帶牠們去遛一下那這時候為什麼他們會讓我覺得這個女孩突然從很吵變天使呢"},{"start":5936.303,"end":5954.527,"text":"因為在他們邀約我去看狗社還有我們去參觀大象的時候他們會一直不斷地說這句話我等一下再回來講照片他會一直說對狗狗對大象對動物說哎呀你們好可愛啊你們好美麗啊我們會好好照顧你的所以這時候他們因為有愛"},{"start":5958.408,"end":5981.009,"text":"所以他們的那個聲調他們那個表情是不是突然覺得就像天使那人是這樣人很奇怪喔你覺得他很討厭的時候他接下來講的每一句話他的聲音也討厭他的鬍子看起來也很討厭他怎麼樣看起來都很討厭可是當你對這個人有改觀你開始覺得他是個好人他是個溫柔的人他是一個有愛的人他怎麼樣你都覺得還不錯"},{"start":5982.59,"end":6009.522,"text":"這個就是一個很奇妙的扭轉所以後來他們就講了那一兩句話而且是從頭到尾常常都這樣講我就突然覺得這些女孩沒那麼吵而且好可愛啊所以後來我們就一人一隻狗這樣子就帶他們去遛狗這樣然後特別講一下這一隻因為很多狗狗也是被虐待或幹嘛的就被拋棄啊然後被關到狗舍然後這隻狗呢牠叫做James有沒有看到牠下面還加了一個"},{"start":6010.666,"end":6032.766,"text":"Bond所以這個是志工幫他加他原本叫James然後幫他加所以他是詹姆士龐德所以我被分配到的就是詹姆士龐德然後這是他的小時候我那時候去的時候他就是被可能被虐待過或是什麼就很厭世他就是背對我這樣背對著籠子就是這樣面對牆然後等我一進去他就很嗨然後就啪就趴到我身上"},{"start":6033.956,"end":6054.199,"text":"就帶他去留這就是我的James Bond很可愛所以我們上午先到這邊這邊講一下結論就是當今天我們前面講了那麼多關於讓人家有好感的表達方式跟可能一句話會讓人家覺得不舒服一句話會讓人家覺得很受用"},{"start":6055.666,"end":6079.625,"text":"這時候我就想到康永哥因為我之前有一次是幫蔡康永主持活動然後他那時候第二本書我幫他主持那大家知道嘛蔡康永他就是深暗說話之道然後很多媒體非常喜歡問他就是到底要怎麼樣跟人家聊天啊到底要怎麼樣好好說話啊因為他感覺就是情商EQ很高他會針對不同的媒體回答不同的長短跟深度的答案"},{"start":6080.285,"end":6096.18,"text":"但是我很喜歡他接下來這個回答那也當作是我們在上半場一個小小的結尾他說說話之道沒有什麼其實就是你把對方放在心上所以剛剛那個美國女孩她把動物放在心上剛剛那個平民社長"},{"start":6097.481,"end":6120.061,"text":"還有溫姐她把今天跟他們一起工作的人放在心上這時候講出來的話讓人家就是覺得是舒服的所以當我們今天說什麼叫做質感說話因為我們今天不是講質感有效又有溫度的一個說話方式嗎其實很重要的是未來各位同仁可以去檢視一下你自己在跟人家溝通對談的時候有沒有做到這件事情有三行"},{"start":6121.262,"end":6149.555,"text":"第一行跟第二行它是有層次的就是你有沒有辦法去傳遞你的身心跟情緒還有言詞的善意它是友善的而且不是只有你認為喔是第二個層次你讓別人有這樣的正面的感受就像剛剛你們說有正向的回饋有正向的回應那很多人會停留在有的人是第一個層次都沒做到有的是做了第一個層次可是他沒有傳到第二個讓別人感覺他只有自己認為"},{"start":6151.179,"end":6173.987,"text":"所以當第一行跟第二行做到之後你會帶動的結果就是各位想要的結果因為所有的溝通表達你必須要人家願意聽你說話跟你們有機會開啟對話才有後面的可能性所以前面第一個跟第二個有做到就會有別人願意跟你交談或聽你說話所以這個就是質感說話"},{"start":6175.327,"end":6188.638,"text":"到目前為止OK嗎好 那我們先休息十分鐘欸 我們休息到五十分好了好不好十點五十 我們以那個強項的中十點五十回來那今天到十一點半我們再繼續往下等一下的分享好 謝謝"},{"start":6211.634,"end":6213.096,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6232.736,"end":6256.872,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6263.116,"end":6280.828,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6297.449,"end":6324.906,"text":"禮儀"},{"start":6325.89,"end":6326.03,"text":"主席"},{"start":6355.87,"end":6356.351,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6383.266,"end":6383.486,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6409.445,"end":6419.147,"text":"有效又有溫度"},{"start":6449.842,"end":6453.364,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6472.563,"end":6484.946,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6500.421,"end":6505.064,"text":"所以你自己去哪幾個國家玩?中國之歌中國之歌嗎?還有哪一個?對,還有獎金哪一個?中國之歌是嗎?"},{"start":6521.932,"end":6538.002,"text":"但我不會感興趣,因為雖然沒感興趣,但有感興趣感興趣,但有感興趣,但有感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣感興趣"},{"start":6546.067,"end":6547.208,"text":"有效又有溫度"},{"start":6566.436,"end":6575.682,"text":"對 都會被看成奇怪的奇怪的奇怪的奇怪的奇怪的奇怪的奇怪的奇怪的奇怪"},{"start":6594.072,"end":6594.792,"text":"主席蔣麗芸"},{"start":6624.557,"end":6627.559,"text":"那是那個即刻救援那個"},{"start":6646.948,"end":6647.289,"text":"委員：完整會議"},{"start":6673.301,"end":6674.342,"text":"先吸奶不能吃奶"},{"start":6690.703,"end":6691.564,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6714.778,"end":6715.559,"text":"禮貌是多耶"},{"start":6733.302,"end":6748.156,"text":"好 來各位各位同仁我們就繼續往下"},{"start":6758.905,"end":6775.26,"text":"今天一到十一點半所以大概四十分鐘大家就可以吃飯十一點半你們可以直接去吃飯還是等於回辦公室等十二點才吃飯好辛苦辛苦了我們如果外面有同仁的話再邀請大家慢慢進來"},{"start":6777.682,"end":6793.836,"text":"接下來我們花一些時間來聊一件事情當今天我們跟人在做互動對話的時候其實我們會被很多有形的無形的東西影響有些東西你可能已經有意識到可是有些你可能會沒有意識到"},{"start":6794.813,"end":6819.2,"text":"光是這一點就是第三課就是講到影響溝通表達的面向事實上它應該是一個一整學期的課它應該是一個非常非常龐大的課因為每一個細節它都有很多的演練或很多討論的空間那我今天做一點濃縮讓大家先了解有這些東西先放在心上未來可以一一的去做一些練習或是再做一些討論"},{"start":6821.613,"end":6848.806,"text":"好首先到底影響我們溝通表達的這些成果有哪幾個面向呢我讓大家猜一下我特別選了三張配圖讓大家比較好聯想先從最簡單的中間這一個就是有一隻鳥在唱歌你們覺得如果以就會影響彼此溝通表達的效果這個其中的這個面向是什麼什麼方向"},{"start":6850.401,"end":6858.33,"text":"很好 這個因為前面我們有講到好像比較好猜聲調對不對好 那麼我們再往這邊這位是誰他是誰"},{"start":6863.973,"end":6882.347,"text":"Oprah有人曾經跟我說是惠尼休斯頓因為頭髮跟鼻子代表跟我同年代了他是Oprah美國的媒體女王那如果我把他的照片放在這裡你們覺得會影響溝通表達成效我們要探討的主題是什麼這個面向是什麼面向就是一個大的方向是什麼"},{"start":6892.284,"end":6911.533,"text":"不好想對不對等一下我如果謎題揭曉你們就恍然大悟先回到第一個就是有一個女生不管她露大腿這不是重點重點是如果是另外一個她是有呈現一個肢體的語言的我把部分答案講出來你們覺得這個面向是什麼跟什麼有關"},{"start":6913.581,"end":6938.529,"text":"肢體表情肢體表情是在大的面向的其中一環那我們就直接揭曉第一個就是外觀這件事情所以很有趣等一下我會再拆解外觀還包含哪些超乎你們想像的多而且還包含了其中一個還包含剛剛在休息時間有同仁私下問我的問題他都是跟這個有關外觀第二個大家剛剛答對聲調"},{"start":6940.589,"end":6968.121,"text":"第三個就是言談內容本身所以這三大面向構成了我們不管你要在台上去做一個公眾的演說還是你要去做一個簡短的致詞還是你要跟別人去做溝通交談它不脫離這些所有的面向還有裡面的元素那我們先一個一個來講這個原本是要讓大家就是邊看邊猜我們就直接給大家看跟外觀有關的"},{"start":6969.315,"end":6969.476,"text":"有這些"},{"start":6971.688,"end":6999.63,"text":"如果時間夠我就讓每個人去思考那因為我們時間比較不夠所以我直接把答案讓你們知道那這裡面呢特別有幾個東西要特別說其中大家比較能夠理解跟常常口語表達有時候你們去做一些進修教學有一些專業老師培訓大部分就是他會針對你的肢體動作所以你看為什麼像你們比方說要去參加競選那些總統那些候選人他們甚至會有這些形象"},{"start":7000.951,"end":7023.687,"text":"禮儀專家教他們這些教戰手冊有沒有?你手要怎麼擺啊?姿態要怎麼擺啊?他不光是只有穿著而已喔他是連肢體語言都非常的講究所以肢體動作跟面部表情是屬於力屬於如果你們未來會做更多口語表達溝通相關進修的話常常很多專業人士專業的像我們這樣的講者會跟你去做更多的討論或琢磨的"},{"start":7025.188,"end":7049.46,"text":"但是你看除了這兩大塊之外是不是還有好多我們平常很少會注意的穿著可能會有一些概念對不對就是你知道去怎麼樣的場合應該怎麼穿這個就不多說髮型啦你的身形啦什麼是屬於比較鮮瘦型的還是這邊要特別講身形跟身體特徵不太一樣身形是指比方說你就是高矮胖瘦"},{"start":7050.46,"end":7078.574,"text":"這是身形 這比較明確身體特徵比較像類似 比方說你是九頭身所以身形是你是瘦的可是身體特徵就是你是九頭身你的頭佔比比較 跟你全身比起來比較小或是你的手長特別大或是你臉上有一顆紙這種叫身體特徵或是以前是劉備還劉邦手長過膝的是很好 劉備能夠答出來的都是我的前輩OK 好"},{"start":7079.875,"end":7103.203,"text":"另外,有一個東西特別要講,氣味跟觸感。氣味是一個,你知道在所有的感官來說,最古老的感官,也會最讓人難忘的,就是它是一個非常潛藏在老祖先你的原始腦的感官的那個記憶,就是嗅覺。在所有的五感裡面,嗅覺是最深刻的。"},{"start":7103.883,"end":7118.516,"text":"但嗅覺也是最霸道的就是今天如果你跟別人在溝通不是要你們從此就是學法國人都噴香水但是至少你的儀容整潔或清晰度這個清爽度讓人家覺得是舒服的先求不要有"},{"start":7119.156,"end":7142.672,"text":"氣味不好的味道再求有疑人的味道那如果都不要你就是簡單清爽甚至沒有味道都是好的所以氣味要小心因為當今天他在跟你對談有一些氣味的干擾其實會因為人沒辦法同時專注好多事他被這個東西影響他就沒辦法好好聽你說話他會一直腦子會一直辨識這是什麼味道啊是從哪裡傳來的啊什麼的"},{"start":7145.134,"end":7151.134,"text":"就是他會干擾你們溝通表達的時候他元素都太干擾了再來觸感我要特別講一下"},{"start":7152.845,"end":7175.057,"text":"還記得前面我有去雲門教室幫忙工作嘛所以我 因為我自己是一個 要不是因為不小心也沒有啦 我就是 我也很喜歡媒體但是我其實如果不是踏進媒體 我應該會去走表演藝術 可能是去教舞 或是當舞者的這個路線但是所學都用得上 反正就現在教學有時候 欸 也是要很逼挺這樣 好 OK當今天"},{"start":7175.897,"end":7197.242,"text":"我在學習很多身體的律動或是舞蹈的時候我其實學到一件事情就是東方人尤其在台灣我們其實還是對於身體的接觸跟身體的一些感知是非常陌生的也因此你不是對自己陌生而已你對跟別人的分際的那個觸碰很多時候其實是沒有太明顯的感覺"},{"start":7199.526,"end":7213.791,"text":"以至於有時候在像我有一個好朋友她是我以前大學的室友女孩子她個性超爽朗她每次跟人家講話的時候一直猛拍人家大腿跟就是勾肩搭背就是她就是一個很爽朗的女孩子這樣子但她的人緣也很好"},{"start":7216.312,"end":7231.077,"text":"出爐也確實很出爐而且他從事的是顧問工作那你說為什麼他還是可以做得很好他有別的能力彌補了那一塊不然的話其實以他的肢體語彙有時候其實有點太多那每個人他能夠接受的觸感的"},{"start":7233.518,"end":7235.159,"text":"我舉一個我自己親身的例子"},{"start":7262.177,"end":7263.018,"text":"﹚完整會議：完整會議：完整會議"},{"start":7284.511,"end":7311.494,"text":"我們就上這些私訊課然後大家是不是就是充滿愛的環境因為我們有討論怎麼住人啊怎麼樣照顧自己啊好在私訊結束的時候大家就互相擁抱是不是很合理就是因為大家都是大家一起那個嘛直到我就在那邊抱抱抱抱抱抱到一個女生她是我們同組的然後這個女生呢她就對我做了她就給我一個回應我一抱她的時候她僵住"},{"start":7312.745,"end":7331.902,"text":"然後我隱約覺得應該過了兩秒還是三秒吧我不知道時間多長總之有一點點時間他非常嫌惡的把我推開真的充滿了嫌惡的臉然後把我推開那是我人生最挫折的一次然後呢就推開然後但是因為我們已經有高度的自覺了嘛所以馬上我就覺察得很快我說啊"},{"start":7332.603,"end":7347.255,"text":"我做錯一件事情因為我們太理所當然覺得在那樣的場域每個人都是一個非常open mind大家就是可以接受這樣的一個肢體的擁抱因為我們都一起培訓但是每個人其實是有個體化的差異的"},{"start":7348.015,"end":7367.327,"text":"所以後來我就再回想那幾天的培訓這個女生事實上跟大家其實沒有那麼常互動這代表她其實是一個即便她的工作是心理師或是我忘記她是社工還是心理師但是她的本質特色特質可能並不是一個跟人真的那麼親近的人"},{"start":7368.507,"end":7394.277,"text":"所以這件事情給我很多的學習第一個就是我們其實真的不要對任何的職業有一個刻板印象因為它會有人的差異人的個體性的差異再來你不能夠根據你過往的經驗來判斷你跟這個人怎麼相處你必須要觀察我如果在那幾天的培訓中有多觀察一點點這個心理師他的跟別人互動我就會知道他比較高冷一點"},{"start":7396.097,"end":7423.225,"text":"會甚至比較害羞一點這時候在結尾的時候我可能就不會做那麼熱情擁抱的動作所以我真的被推拒得很尷尬但是沒有太受傷因為我覺察之後就發現以後調整好就好了所以觸感這件事情請大家注意無論是男性對女性異性之間還是同性之間請做一點點小小的觀察你再來決定你要跟對方是用多少的"},{"start":7425.065,"end":7442.267,"text":"這個肢體距離每個人舒適的心理距離其實是不一樣的所以這個是外觀我說過當所有東西都顧不來的時候外觀我只會給一個重點就是眼神剛剛我們也有提到那你們大家看幾張照片"},{"start":7449.534,"end":7470.3,"text":"好,到這裡這也是我在青麥大廈保育公園拍的貓然後這個是我那時候在書桌演講完我那時候是為了拍那隻狗但是後來就看到這個大媽跟這個狗我就覺得江南好風光的那種感覺回過頭來你會發現無論畫面上你認不認識這上面的人一定都不認識除了蔡康永"},{"start":7471.707,"end":7492.683,"text":"無論男女老少認不認識今天眼神所在之處就是你希望別人注意的重點就像今天我其實在教課演講還有以前活動主持或是近距離的訪談我最重要為什麼重視眼神因為只有眼神對到你跟對方的連結才能夠建立起來"},{"start":7493.243,"end":7522.267,"text":"今天其實對講師來說其實是有點吃力的因為今天我們的場地是不是很大而且大家的那個做的是這樣甚至是那個哈利波特餐廳裡面那個方式就是大家其實是比較散而且是狹長是遠所以我其實很難每個人的眼神對到而且很多同仁應該是不太想跟老師的眼神對到跟講者的眼神對到所以沒有對到眼神事實上你有說你那個話語會沒辦法落到對方身上"},{"start":7522.947,"end":7547.038,"text":"大家記得你把以後好的溝通是你的眼神跟你的話兩者你要拋到對方就比方說我在跟你說話我從眼睛看著你我的聲音也落到你那邊這樣就是一個好的傳達但很多人不是很多人在講話的時候看別人或是我話出去了你愛聽不聽隨便就是那個東西它就會造成在溝通上質感跟感受上其實會沒有那麼好"},{"start":7548.118,"end":7568.486,"text":"好 所以像這一個 這個是我大學的另外一個同學我剛剛有一個同學是很一直講話會拍人家大腿這個是另外一個同學我們都是室友然後他跟他先生這是我那時候主持他們的婚禮你看 人在最愛結婚的時候應該就是最愛的時候嘛你會發現他們彼此的眼神就是沒有在管父母在講什麼"},{"start":7569.406,"end":7581.752,"text":"彼此的那個電力都非常的足現在已經結婚快30年不知道是什麼情況所以無論怎麼樣眼神所在之處就是你覺得希望別人發現的重點"},{"start":7584.009,"end":7603.66,"text":"這個是那個外觀接下來我們來講聲調聲調事實上是一個非常複雜跟它是一個非常龐大的學問所以你看像那些歌手表演藝術工作者演員他們其實在或是配音員像我的話是因為我對訪談有興趣我對人有興趣我是後來主攻"},{"start":7604.68,"end":7633.306,"text":"訪談這件事因為我喜歡研究人跟萬事萬物我有一批朋友就是同事他們專攻配音員的路線就是去配那些廣告或是配韓劇啊什麼的這些那我以前配過一點廣告跟什麼可是我後來主攻就是訪談跟可以表達的研究但是聲音這一塊無論你是什麼行業它都充斥在我們跟別人溝通當中你會被影響你的喜悟其實很明顯"},{"start":7634.326,"end":7660.845,"text":"只是每個人不太會你如果沒有學過這個你不太會分析我為什麼不喜歡這個人的聲音為什麼這個人講話他就讓我惱怒跟浮躁然後我在跟他溝通的時候可能不是他的話沒有道理可能是他的聲音討你的厭就是不入你的耳所以這個東西很麻煩因為眼睛有審美耳朵也有耳緣有眼緣跟耳緣緣分的緣就是每個人不太一樣"},{"start":7661.906,"end":7677.805,"text":"這些還不是全部,但是我就列出一些這些所有的元素構成了聲調這件事情這個比較閱理,所以我不會講太多講一個概念,就是我們今天如果你要跟別人有一個好的溝通"},{"start":7678.962,"end":7700.332,"text":"其實你拆解這些元素它就可以達到一個比較好的溝通當然這個每一個都是一個專業但是有三個你們可以先記得就是你時間不夠然後你能調整有限怎麼樣調整最有感有三個點一個就是音量的調整"},{"start":7701.365,"end":7718.701,"text":"音量的調整 音量的舒適度的調整第二個語速的調整 中間那個講話速度他最有感 就是你調了之後好與不好最有感覺 音量與速另外一個就是右上角 聲音的高度 又叫做聲音的頻率"},{"start":7719.912,"end":7741.18,"text":"就每個人都會有,像我們在場有男生有女生每個人的聲音的音高是不一樣的好,那你們先想像一下喔如果像我們前面這個應該是主管們,大哥們聲音如果偏低,剛剛我聽你們說話聲音偏比較低,中低有磁性的聲音可是如果很低沉的聲音但是語速很快"},{"start":7742.355,"end":7767.366,"text":"又在一個比較大的場地 比方說在這裡這個算是偏大的場地喔雖然是密閉式 但是偏大的場地這時候的結果是什麼以聲音工學來說 就是聲音就會糊在一起因為聲音是一種波 大家知道嗎聲音是一種wave 它是波 聲波所以當你今天 如果你的聲音音頻低 語速快 它聲音就會糊在一起"},{"start":7768.306,"end":7793.416,"text":"然後有的人呢是聲音高但你就說欸那個老師我們是不是聲音要高因為很多主持人不是聲音要清亮嗎好像清亮你就會覺得是一個比較能夠抓住人家的耳朵也未必所以其實所有的聲調我其實在做這些年做做多教學跟釐清的就是聲音跟表達它沒有絕對的好壞對錯它是要在那個場景跟那個情境跟對象合不合理"},{"start":7794.116,"end":7816.621,"text":"合不合宜所以今天如果我是在主持一個對外的活動或是像那種總統就職大典那種大型活動聲音清亮音量大一點絕對是對的然後戶外的場地音長拉長一點絕對是對的但是如果今天我們在餐廳裡面或是會議室我們只是一對一這樣談你需要到那個程度?不需要"},{"start":7817.799,"end":7834.892,"text":"所以每個人你今天未來要去調整的就是先從音量語速跟聲音高低但是高低你不是說我今天我的聲音是這樣我要調到高八度或是我要調到低八度你不是歌手不是配音員不需要這樣調而且這樣調很怪"},{"start":7837.474,"end":7855.328,"text":"你會無法持久通常是微調你只要調個一點點就會有差了所以這個東西其實蠻專業就是先讓大家知道就這幾個所以你說像聲音的質感每個人的聲音質感都不一樣我們在場有一百個左右的同仁我們就是一百把小提琴"},{"start":7856.451,"end":7858.192,"text":"接下來我們來講一下言談內容本身"},{"start":7875.512,"end":7890.268,"text":"言談很有趣我教了那麼久的課啊我後來發現其實說話最常出現的狀況不外乎兩個就是大家都說啊溝通有問題啊什麼其實就是這兩件事哪兩件事呢就是一個就是說的人說不清楚"},{"start":7891.349,"end":7914.077,"text":"一個人就是聽的人聽不明白你不覺得這是廢話嗎?但是它是真理就是很多人他說所以所有的演練包含你們可能被派訓要去上什麼口語表達課或是什麼溝通課其實學習的是什麼?一個學習的是當事人就是你說的這個人你有沒有辦法好好的把一件事情或一個感受說清楚"},{"start":7915.177,"end":7935.533,"text":"那這時候你可能會喊冤說可是我們最常遇到的問題就是我們說得很清楚可是對方聽不明白對不對是對方有問題這個應該是大部分人的情況所以說不清楚有可能有很多環節等一下我會舉幾個就是那幾個方向就是最常容易表達不清楚的其中的點"},{"start":7936.474,"end":7948.762,"text":"但是聽不明白非常值得研究因為很多時候聽不明白它會有生理上的聽不明白跟心理上的聽不明白什麼叫做生理上就是今天"},{"start":7950.1,"end":7970.857,"text":"大家知道一件事嗎隨著我們的年紀漸長我們的聽力是會退化的我們辨別低頻的能力高頻的能力會變弱就是你沒有好好保護你的耳朵所以像今天我今天剛好跟月盈一起因為她住我家附近我們今天其實一起過來然後呢她就發現說老師你在那個捷運車過來的時候我會烏住我的耳朵"},{"start":7975.39,"end":8001.327,"text":"因為捷運有一些站它那個煞車跟就是那個啟動跟停的過程那個聲音是非常尖銳的那我為了要保護我的耳朵我其實我會戴抗噪耳機跟我會把我的耳朵捂起來一小段時間然後之後再放開所以如果你們開始在乎你們的耳朵的話也可以這麼做就是保護好自己的耳朵所以就是生理性因為聽不清楚所以造成了聽不清楚"},{"start":8001.807,"end":8021.753,"text":"但是更多是心理性心理性就是你心態上覺得這件事對你不重要大腦是這樣因為聽力不是耳朵的事而已它是大腦的事是大腦解碼你聽到之後是訊號送到大腦去解碼你才能夠知道你聽到了什麼東西所以當你第一個物理上你沒有聽到"},{"start":8023.382,"end":8049.937,"text":"就是一個很白搭再來你聽到了可是大腦解碼覺得這件事對他不重要他沒興趣他很無聊他很討厭心理上他就會聽不明白所以他的聽不明白不是你講的多不好或不對是因為他心理上他跟大腦就是心跟腦他覺得這個事情不重要他不喜歡然後他就聽不明白那你說溝通會有效嗎不會有效不會有效所以所有的問題都在這裡"},{"start":8052.267,"end":8071.818,"text":"那接下來我就快速的講幾個最容易在溝通上會出現的問題那大家 我不會考大家你們就心裡放在心裡就是自己中幾項就好了就是有沒有這些問題第一件事情你們覺得是什麼我放了一個圖你們覺得會會談到的是什麼一個嘴巴覺得是什麼"},{"start":8077.421,"end":8094.798,"text":"就是咬字這件事情那你說老師我們沒有要當主持人我們沒有要當那個外交官我們有需要咬字真的那麼清楚嗎我會建議能夠做到你願意練習的跟你願意注意到的越清楚越好為什麼"},{"start":8096.417,"end":8123.838,"text":"我很喜歡吃蛋你有沒有發現你今天要吃一顆完整的蛋當然它是最有營養全蛋嘛但是是不是做成蒸蛋或布丁比較好入口所以當你今天咬字很清楚就很像是你的資訊是非常好的你的內容什麼都很對但是如果你把它咬字清楚就代表你的那個元素分解得越清楚別人吸收比較容易"},{"start":8125.385,"end":8140.997,"text":"人比較容易聽進去他就會比較容易受理他就會比較容易接受所以盡可能的在你願意的跟你有時間的情況之下把咬字這件事情做好我原本只是要讓大家練一下有人要挑戰嗎?"},{"start":8142.558,"end":8144.68,"text":"我們這一場有沒有同仁是先會台語才會華語的舉手覺得你的母語先會台語"},{"start":8165.7,"end":8194.606,"text":"我父母也是因為我爸媽台南人但是你們聽不出來我有任何台南的口頭因為我從小是在台北的眷村長大所以我的聲音就咬字就是 但是我都 我會聽會講今天如果你是先會台語才會就是現在我們常常說的話的話那麼你有一些音可能會發起來會不太習慣比方說台語它沒有F這種音它比較沒有唇齒音所以唸那個互呼有沒有它就會唸互呼"},{"start":8195.586,"end":8209.198,"text":"互劃我媽媽雖然現在國語也是瞎瞎叫但是我出版一下我媽我媽不在現場她講話就是這樣她說H啊媽媽去巷口電頭話等一下再回來出販"},{"start":8210.578,"end":8218.723,"text":"你們覺得很熟悉很熟悉所以他們沒有這個就是沒有吃這種音他也比較沒有於這種音他會變成一然後他會變成分會變成喝就是比較閉不太起來那這個話你有注意就會有改善那媽媽的話我不會"},{"start":8228.909,"end":8256.623,"text":"身為女人我不會說媽來跟我唸一下互敷 不會喔 何必呢媽媽開心就好反正聽得懂能溝通就好但是如果各位在職場上咬字越清楚對各位的幫助是越大第二件事情剛剛有講過就是在所有的溝通我們其實有時候會遇到聽不清楚說不明白是你的聲調的舒適度如何聲調越舒適別人越願意聽你說話越願意跟你交流"},{"start":8257.963,"end":8260.065,"text":"我常常會舉個例子我常常會覺得我們在說話的人我們是在立法院"},{"start":8272.912,"end":8286.467,"text":"立法院做的很多事情跟政策跟規章有關係我們其實就很像是一個如果以我是一個演說者來說各位今天上了我們這輛知識列車我是列車長我是知識列車的列車長"},{"start":8289.19,"end":8316.381,"text":"那各位是制定法律的列車長今天呢我要把各位同仁從台北一路載到屏東我們今天講的是質感說話講的是怎麼樣有效跟有溫度的一個溝通對話這是一個我們的任務嘛我把你們從台北一路要我要順著今天大家聽我分享的話語的流一路帶到屏東今天所有我們講到的這些"},{"start":8317.601,"end":8329.038,"text":"溝通上 包含咬字如果不清楚啦或是等一下要講的其他的問題如果那個東西都犯了的話它就很像是一個路障你每犯一個問題它都是一個路障 咬字不清楚是一個路障"},{"start":8330.802,"end":8359.602,"text":"專有名詞太多是個路障聲音太大很干擾是個路障那人的大腦機制很有趣因為我近年非常熱愛研究我非常喜歡研究很多東西我還研究腦科學但是當然人腦是這樣的今天他只要有一個路障他要去辨別說他到底在講什麼他會停下來所以今天如果我是一個溝通表達者我在跟你對話的時候我一直滔滔不絕講我一直在開我的車但是中間講了一些對方需要想的事情"},{"start":8361.063,"end":8387.001,"text":"這時候他腦子停下來在想你剛剛講的可是你沒有等他對不對你繼續往下講很多專業人士會這樣滔滔不絕的講他沒有去注意別人有沒有吸收好這時候等你一次兩次三次很多人其實不用到三次現在大家都沒有耐心可能兩三次他就放棄了他就不聽了或他就那個恍神了"},{"start":8387.541,"end":8401.081,"text":"所以等你一路這個自信滿滿的講一大堆開到屏東回頭一看你的知識列車發現大家不是恍神恍神睡著睡著跳車的跳車或是變成一車殭屍那什麼屍速列車呢就會變成這個樣子"},{"start":8403.364,"end":8421.513,"text":"所以我們盡可能做到所有溝通表達的一些可以做的事情都是為了讓我們這個知識列車你跟別人的這個互動他可以順利的從一開始到結尾他都跟你在一起你們都在同一個車子上你們沒有到別的地方他沒有到別的地方去可是很不容易"},{"start":8422.954,"end":8444.148,"text":"連我自己已經算是一個在你看我在教學或主持已經快30年了已經蠻久了我們其實都很難做到每一次大家都可以很專注的而且是每個人可以從頭到尾聽你專注說話你覺得容易其實不容易我自己常常也很喜歡當學生或是那個聽眾在台下"},{"start":8446.05,"end":8458.283,"text":"有時候你還是會因為累或什麼你可能會稍稍恍神或是那個東西有點難你還在想 已經跟不上了我有一次去聽 很多年前去聽區塊鏈對一個中文系的來說我去聽區塊鏈真的是有點難"},{"start":8460.866,"end":8485.561,"text":"所以就會變成這個樣但我們可以有這個心去做到盡可能去讓彼此這個連結可以不要斷得那麼快或是可以讓別人去聽我們說話的時候可以再多這個願意多待一會兒多專注一點當然最好所以第一個是咬字的清晰度會影響我們溝通表達的一些成效第二個呢是音量音調的這個舒適度第三件事是這個"},{"start":8489.359,"end":8505.288,"text":"因為各位同仁都是在你們所屬的領域都是超級專業你們是屬於高度專業的領域因為高度專業的領域你中間會有非常非常多的專有名詞或是新的服務概念新的立法等等這個東西都是大量需要跟別人溝通的"},{"start":8506.257,"end":8506.377,"text":"專業術語的轉化"},{"start":8528.417,"end":8553.067,"text":"說穿了就是說人話但是這個是需要訓練的也是先拋專引力跟大家說專業術語也是會影響我們跟別人在溝通上的一個成效最後一項有沒有看到我的這個底圖就是一群野草接下來這一項它就是一個野草除不盡春風吹又生很難改的一項前面幾項都可以透過你的高度自覺"},{"start":8554.656,"end":8561.442,"text":"跟演練你可以做到一個重度這項也可以但是它的難度要再高一點就是墜詞廢話很多那人是這樣子的喔人是一個不可能沒有墜詞的動物"},{"start":8574.52,"end":8592.131,"text":"我目前為止遇過的人沒有人完全沒有罪詞這個跟那個就是人腦的那個語言的那個理由有關這個就不探討但是我幾乎沒有遇過他頂多就是多少跟有沒有被發現跟他在那個場景合不合理而已你們知道自己的罪詞是什麼嗎"},{"start":8593.905,"end":8609.39,"text":"自己的罪詞,大部分罪詞可能就是嗯,然後而且這個那個,有一些罪詞很妙,有一些罪詞像我以前訪問很多那種長官或什麼很奇怪,不知道為什麼企業家有時候會這樣,比方說台積電好了,大家好我是台積電的某某某,對,他會講完自己對,"},{"start":8612.695,"end":8635.941,"text":"講話會壓軸一個對這個對它就是一個罪詞還有一種罪詞它就是一個橫空出世就是以前沒有它有一個時代性比方我記得我在小時候你會發現如果年紀跟我比較近的我們小時候其實沒有人講什麼之類的的樣子的部分其實沒有什麼人這樣講它是近十幾二十年來突然十幾年來開始有的部分的樣子所以語言它是一個會傳染的"},{"start":8636.781,"end":8637.662,"text":"今天你要先知道你有什麼罪詞"},{"start":8653.576,"end":8673.453,"text":"再來你要知道你為什麼有罪詞通常有罪詞的原因是因為一個你對你自己要講的內容不夠熟悉因為不夠熟悉我們剛剛不是說我們講話很像是車子在開嗎你平常在講話有一個速度與速就像你在開車你不希望別人發現你在想或者是詞窮了"},{"start":8674.714,"end":8689.377,"text":"所以這時候你在那個需要填字詞的時候就會丟罪詞跟廢話進去所以通常是這樣才會有罪詞所以你是不是越不熟的內容你講的就會越坑坑巴巴嘛所以你的那個罪詞需要給的洞就越來越多"},{"start":8689.778,"end":8709.466,"text":"而且罪詞通常就會是那幾個字所以你今天如果罪詞是而且你如果沒有根本的改變下一次同一個動會變然後就是他會換一個罪詞但一樣是廢話對他不會變成沒用他會換一個罪詞所以有可能是因為你對主題不夠了解第二個你的休息不夠"},{"start":8710.686,"end":8734.811,"text":"休息不夠因為講話是非常耗能量它耗心力它耗意志力它耗專注力所以只要你沒吃飽沒睡好這種跟生理有關的其實精神不好它都會讓你罪詞變多所以像我是因為自己在做更多的研究我就發現以前我也是會毛起來就是為了要教學演講主持會熬夜準備"},{"start":8736.075,"end":8757.535,"text":"我現在絕對盡量睡好然後好好吃像今天早上來前好好吃個早餐我的話語流就會比較順所以這個是序詞你要先知道一些原因你才能夠改變所以知道之後你去辨識了改變還有你語速快的人講話快的人比語速慢的人序詞要來得多"},{"start":8758.939,"end":8768.854,"text":"所以當你今天如果希望改變的話你講話的時候稍微吞個口水或是喝點水呼吸一下但你不要跟人家溝通的時候"},{"start":8770.322,"end":8798.652,"text":"就是現在會惹怒別人就是不要那個太over就是你去做一個簡單的自我今天因為沒有講那個就是情緒管理那些但是呼吸是一個非常非常重要的事情好但我們今天講不到那麼多總之呢你稍微做點調節你再話語再講出來絕對會又有效又有質感而且廢話罪詞不會那麼多你也才能夠大腦爭取那一點點空間會產出更多的詞彙出來"},{"start":8799.952,"end":8823.329,"text":"好 所以這個就是第四個最常出現的罪詞廢話那我最後問一個問題你們覺得罪詞有沒有需要修到完全沒有就像我們以前後製節目會把那個來賓的那個那些那個罪詞什麼剪掉就是你要剪掉呼吸有的剪得太多了會把呼吸剪掉你們覺得罪詞要不要都剪掉"},{"start":8824.4,"end":8853.154,"text":"都不要不要留來我們問一下覺得罪詞要斬草除根的舉手就是人生不要有罪詞所以大家都還是只是累了不想舉老師我累了這樣還有三分鐘下課我會這麼說第一個罪詞因為很難改因為它就是野草除不盡春風吹二聲所以首先它本來就不好改所以你們不用擔心會把它剪到多麼就是完全沒有但是什麼時候你可以放鬆一點點有一些罪詞"},{"start":8854.295,"end":8882.317,"text":"就是越高度專業的場合 罪詞越少所以像這種什麼TED18分因為TED演講是18分鐘嘛你們要去做一個很重要的簡報去做諮詢那些越重要的場合罪詞要越少越好但是如果你今天是跟你的朋友家人相處哈拉一下回到家累了你要錄個語音給你的同學什麼這種很非正式的社交的場合罪詞有一點點實際上是親切的"},{"start":8883.53,"end":8886.1,"text":"沒有這詞是專業但是比較高冷比較遠"},{"start":8887.765,"end":8915.454,"text":"有一點罪詞 比較不專業但是親切所以大家可以去做一點點衡量所以這是以上四個好 那剩下兩分鐘我做一點小小的提醒也當作是我們今天的小小的收尾就是我們前面講到了很多事實上每一個都是非常的專業有很重要的可以去演練註意的討論的這個環節但是如果要說如果今天大家聽完什麼東西都記不得的話我會送給大家這幾個"},{"start":8916.634,"end":8936.428,"text":"未來可以運用在你們不管是跟別人在做溝通或是在做分享的時候可以注意的一些剛剛沒提到的重要的小事首先第一件事 也不小 重要的事情第一個事情就是你在跟別人在對談的時候請盡量做到不疾不徐"},{"start":8937.589,"end":8954.36,"text":"當然不是說你不能夠是一個輕快的百靈鳥但是如果耐聽跟讓人家情緒可以保持平穩其實語速不急不徐是一個比較舒適的做法那當然需要練習再來在心態的態度上"},{"start":8955.99,"end":8974.545,"text":"你要不卑不亢這一句成語是我非常多年來很深刻的感受而且我因為這一句話幫了很多的學員這些學員都是在職場中已經非常厲害但是他們對於面對某一些人在對應答的時候會退卻或者是會"},{"start":8975.967,"end":8986.679,"text":"過猶不及會影響他們的表現我說你把握四個字叫做不卑不亢就是你不要太驕傲去面對別人可是你不用因為對方的職位對方的這個資歷"},{"start":8990.603,"end":9019.765,"text":"地位、年紀比你長而你就是非常的卑微所以不要交精也不要卑微不卑不亢這是心態上還有肢體語言也是這樣的然後再來是我們其實因為不是亞特蘭提斯文我們沒有辦法心電感應所以我們終究還是要透過言語來去做一些溝通或文字今天還沒有講到文字文字跟語言其實都是一個非常容易造成誤解的工具請盡量具體陳述什麼叫具體?"},{"start":9020.666,"end":9039.384,"text":"人事實地物以前新聞記者我們在寫新聞稿你所有的東西你一定要寫而且寫小說也是啊你不外乎就是人事實地物你要描述清楚所以說的話記得這個東西說清楚再來前面講的那個專業術語要做轉化要說人話什麼叫做說人話就是你要善用比喻"},{"start":9040.305,"end":9064.199,"text":"所以我非常鼓勵大家去追劇﹑看電影﹑看小說﹑看舞台劇﹑聽別人講八卦都可以因為這些東西它會豐富你的故事資料庫你會遇到人說人話﹑遇到鬼可以說鬼話就是你可以去做很多好的比喻你需要有龐大的這些故事資料庫你才能做好的對照所以學越多東西越好"},{"start":9064.699,"end":9093.521,"text":"就是你要能夠上到那個外太空就是外太空到行天宮都可以聊就是口語表達的溝通高手最後一個有一點點擋住希望大家可以看得到就是請真誠所有的你說表達能力要多好其實我一直也沒有覺得我自己的表達或什麼多厲害到哪裡我遇過太多口語表達跟學術比我高深的太多太多了可是有一件事情我很"},{"start":9096.344,"end":9116.284,"text":"我一定做到的就是絕對真誠你發自內心真誠去跟別人溝通別人是感受得到的其實每個人比你自己以為的來得敏感跟敏銳尤其你們會對應到的很多是厲害的人這些厲害的職場人士其實見多看多了他其實感受得到你真不真誠"},{"start":9117.285,"end":9132.733,"text":"而那個真誠它會透過你的語言透過你的聲音透過你的肢體動作跟表情都會跑出來所以請分享什麼叫做真誠就是分享你知道的你真正了解知道有感覺的事情那個東西就是真誠"},{"start":9133.433,"end":9160.761,"text":"那當然你說老師會很真誠但講話很難聽那又是另外一件事情那就是可能要再開課去琢磨的事但至少這幾件事情大家可以稍微記得然後祝福大家可以運用在你們的職場當中那因為時間關係超過了兩分鐘不好意思但是呢真的很衷心的祝福大家因為我覺得在立院工作是一個很辛苦的事情我覺得在政府機構因為我父親以前也在政府機構那我覺得都是"},{"start":9161.862,"end":9176.253,"text":"職場工作就是辛苦各位的角色的特殊性就會讓各位可能工作上有時候比較緊繃或有時候會遇到很多劍拔弩張或是很無奈的事情我很祝福大家我們為什麼要學習說話最後做個結論學習口語表達學習溝通其實是為了"},{"start":9181.977,"end":9203.664,"text":"你在這個過程當中你不是只看目的我談成了什麼我們促成了什麼法案而是你有沒有辦法沿途去欣賞你說話你跟別人相處的那個風景你跟別人說話尤其這個人也是討人厭可是你在跟他對話溝通如果你可以用一個比較欣賞的角度然後剛剛我們講到很多元素去觀察"},{"start":9204.804,"end":9222.535,"text":"去觀察對方也去觀察了解自己你會發現說話跟對話這件事情會變得非常有趣那到底這個案子能不能通過是不是還要再開下一次會議那又是另外一件事了所以祝福大家可以享受對話然後把說話這件事情也好好的運用在你們的人生謝謝"},{"start":9225.41,"end":9249.726,"text":"那因為最後了還是不免俗問有沒有人要問問題沒有的話就放大家繼續工作和吃飯因為我還蠻喜歡跟大家就是有一些交流如果各位同仁今天的分享之後你們運用在你們的生活工作中如果有一些之後的回饋除了可能你們有問卷之外也可以私訊給我"},{"start":9250.586,"end":9251.547,"text":"下課 等一下我們是不是要合照"},{"start":9275.483,"end":9297.819,"text":"來一個大合照紀念一下今天因為我還蠻希望可以記得大家的請同仁幫我們指揮一下大家就自在一點喔看一下鏡頭老師要來這邊還是我要躺在這個躺在桌子上那記得要把你們的臉露出來喔"},{"start":9299.135,"end":9304.416,"text":"等下大家可以用你們自己喜歡的方式比小的愛心中的"},{"start":9321.684,"end":9322.004,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9338.001,"end":9352.991,"text":"我回去要檢查照片了我看你們剛剛到底比了什麼好謝謝大家謝謝大家謝謝大家謝謝月琪老師真誠還有豐富的分享然後今天課程就到這邊那請大家記得用手機掃一下牆上的滿意度問卷調查謝謝"},{"start":9360.111,"end":9369.991,"text":"響鐘"}]},"會議時間":"2024-08-12T09:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"質感說話課：有效又有溫度的溝通表達力（事由：質感說話課：有效又有溫度的溝通表達力）","委員發言時間":"09:15:00 - 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大家好歡迎各位志工老師出席今天的活動請大家謹速入座也請大家幫忙把手機轉成靜音或震動模式活動即將開始"},{"start":1558.232,"end":1558.432,"text":"主席"},{"start":1583.203,"end":1598.616,"text":"113年立法院志工研習活動開始之前請容我先介紹今日與會的長官與貴賓首先介紹周萬來秘書長秘書處孔炳傑處長人事處陳淑梅副處長"},{"start":1608.957,"end":1619.254,"text":"還有今天教育訓練特邀講座胡欣怡老師首先恭請立法院周萬來秘書長為我們說幾句話有請秘書長"},{"start":1625.484,"end":1651.102,"text":"各位朋友謝謝首先代表院長感謝各位能夠來幫我們院裡導覽一些事務其實我在民國75年到DC有一個專題研究這該的導覽我是蠻有想推動包括助理在民國75年院裡給我一個機會出國"},{"start":1655.829,"end":1680.006,"text":"一直拖到我103年離開立法院到考試院當考試委員我們這邊是106年9月才成立這個志工導覽團隊我沒有看到黃英姐會來看到沒看到有一個老同事我一看到這個資料他跟我同年"},{"start":1681.343,"end":1705.788,"text":"然後他是106年9月成立啊他隔年啊因為他應該是105年的因為我是比較年尾生的他是7月退的我如果沒有離開立法院是106年的1月要退了因為我大概63歲我到考試院去同時我看他一成立大概就在這裡面了"},{"start":1707.216,"end":1713.12,"text":"從106年9月到現在,因為現在八月份,快要七年了在這當中,我為什麼要提這個時間呢?我有一個同事,他在台北大學還有上課,特別打電話給我"},{"start":1731.584,"end":1756.44,"text":"我們導覽到那個議場導覽因為他以前也當過法治委員會的主任秘書他說進步非常多給外界對我們這個院裡面有不同的看法那這個就是我們導覽志工的這個相當對院裡面的非常正面給外界非常的一個好感"},{"start":1757.04,"end":1758.361,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":1784.043,"end":1810.336,"text":"這邊就分兩塊有些是不是我們院裡面的外面你在不同的單位我想我看了資料有些也知道別單位當過志工立法院是比較特別的一個地方因為它是民意機關也不像那個團體像醫院或是行政部門我看了有志工朋友是在總統府當過志工過"},{"start":1811.777,"end":1836.162,"text":"這一個地方大概因為業長關係我看的這個資料這一年都特別多這半年就已經快要跟以前的一年的時間相接近了而到現在我剛才還看到一個團進來我剛才我在辦公室一看好像有一個團進來這個一看的狀況就是現在就已經一萬多個人"},{"start":1838.035,"end":1863.349,"text":"到7月份給我資料是1萬多個那這個團可能到他這裡是在去年是1萬7千那現在8月份就已經1萬多1萬零千多了那這可能到12月份可能會更多各位也會更辛苦需要各位幫我們服務的地方更辛苦就是這個"},{"start":1864.229,"end":1865.15,"text":"委員：完整會議委員：完整會議"},{"start":1883.982,"end":1897.958,"text":"胡老師會跟各位介紹很多怎麼說故事 怎麼去了解因為我看到這個資料 所以我就比較因為我在還沒當考試院之前 在立法院大概有38年2個月"},{"start":1900.06,"end":1928.074,"text":"我從民國六十五年七月我一貫一退的時候我九一讀研究所那我七月到六一來都在同一個部門就一直做到副理事長又還是兼那個單位的處長一直到一零一我才沒有兼處長一零三到考試院去這次已經卸任後已經三年半又回到六一來"},{"start":1930.436,"end":1953.729,"text":"我一進來是唯一感到溫暖就是大概老同事大概可能還七成在那年輕人就沒辦法科長一下我就不會不太認識科長以上大概還要了解我們志工工友原來以前在立法院就有市長會有互動所以我們志工工友對我還蠻"},{"start":1957.489,"end":1980.325,"text":"我一進來都會跟我打招呼,我就心裡會很高興因為我在當考委,我不常進來因為這個身份上的關係,我非常少進來立法院像我太太也在立法院工作這次要強制信託,要他蓋上,不進來就不進來"},{"start":1983.839,"end":2006.731,"text":"臺灣醫法就進來蓋個章,沒有,就是教育部去蓋章,教育部他就不進來,因為他在這邊也工作了大概29年,這個就是大概中國是比較不太相同,所以我到院裡面來找,但是我為什麼要佔一點時間的原因就是說,"},{"start":2008.872,"end":2020.235,"text":"立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":2034.719,"end":2051.096,"text":"有沒有這個 我知道袁姐有跟我提過 這個如果各位有需要的話可能會請醫事部門的 裡面的主管跟各位檢要的半個鐘頭或什麼做一個簡單介紹 有嗎"},{"start":2053.118,"end":2054.68,"text":"立法院志工研習：完整會議"},{"start":2068.151,"end":2070.392,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習"},{"start":2090.439,"end":2095.161,"text":"議場是1949蓋好,1949才施行大概在導覽的時候,那邊不是有一個牌子嗎?議場有個牌子裡面看議場裡面的一個情況紅樓、群仙樓我今天剛來跟我同事講,為什麼叫群仙樓?"},{"start":2119.963,"end":2121.083,"text":"群賢幣制改成群賢樓1979年蓋好了1979年蓋好還是梁院長時候"},{"start":2144.069,"end":2146.81,"text":"還是梁院長的時候,大概1984年才開始,1978年是劉克才當一年,我是1978年3月接這個位置的"},{"start":2160.276,"end":2165.341,"text":"主任是78年3月接的建築不太相同導覽給外界理解為什麼我要講這一段外界認為破破爛爛"},{"start":2180.197,"end":2180.217,"text":"國務院議員"},{"start":2199.85,"end":2224.895,"text":"從華山一直到空軍總部到現在又在推動有六個地方當然它還好有包括空軍總部在內其實空軍總部那一塊當時就是因為有些部分已經都已經通過已經拿了五年的預算了因為有一些沒辦法"},{"start":2225.799,"end":2248.247,"text":"不然現在可能你們導覽就在那邊導覽,就不是在這個地方,就是這個狀況。不過我是拉拉扎扎跟各位說明,就代表央方市政會長,謝謝各位。雖然我們這邊,雖然包括這次新進的大概有13位朋友進來,也大概只有44個。"},{"start":2249.767,"end":2250.127,"text":"朱立法"},{"start":2271.84,"end":2299.463,"text":"我也碰到他我剛剛講他是好像有輪子吧他是有輪子的情形都非常辛苦啦我覺得說各位來因為也要有一點東西給各位有收穫啦如果都是互出沒有一點收穫那也在導覽的志工上也是很可惜所以我才說給院方也一點"},{"start":2300.604,"end":2301.845,"text":"當主管很喜歡同事"},{"start":2321.36,"end":2339.335,"text":"不要影響他工作區上課,要教學相長才會有進步,但是原來長官他不太喜歡這樣尤其在研究部門,你在百個兩節課或四節課,不影響他的公務出去,他一定會有進步"},{"start":2340.336,"end":2341.457,"text":"立法院志工研習"},{"start":2362.316,"end":2388.861,"text":"對院裡面我們幫助謝謝各位能夠因為透過這個導覽過程對立法院有比較了解一點比較深入啦現在外界的Youtuber好像非常我現在都不敢再走在路上原來人家看這個老頭子應該都不會我脫髮現在是懶的啦我再當考試委員就不懶脫髮全部白白的因為人家我就"},{"start":2389.921,"end":2389.941,"text":"韓院長"},{"start":2411.806,"end":2415.527,"text":"立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":2433.334,"end":2455.407,"text":"關注外面的媒體所寫的各方面你來這邊導覽以後你會發現很多就不是這樣的實況就不是從書裡面我學院寫的三本書裡面就關立法院這部分有三本書裡面在怎麼介紹那個書還是很僵硬的書"},{"start":2456.508,"end":2456.668,"text":"主席"},{"start":2487.302,"end":2494.365,"text":"非常謝謝秘書長的致詞秘書長另有要工將先行離場謝謝秘書長接著馬上就要來進行今日的講座課程"},{"start":2513.106,"end":2523.513,"text":"今天很榮幸為各位邀請到胡欣宜老師為我們進行說故事和聽故事的人專題課程讓我們掌聲歡迎胡欣宜老師"},{"start":2537.944,"end":2556.31,"text":"各位志工哥哥姐姐們好我是胡馨儀今天很高興可以來這邊跟大家做分享其實我覺得我才是要來跟各位學習的人那因為我自己的背景其實是以做展覽為專業的所以那個時候其實立法院"},{"start":2557.951,"end":2578.291,"text":"公關處這邊找我來的時候我有一點受寵若驚就覺得哇我可能跟大部分的民眾一樣其實對於立法院是有很多的好奇的那我想先了解一下各位志工姊姊哥哥們你們的背景是有曾經在立法院工作過的人可以舉個手嗎"},{"start":2581.903,"end":2607.186,"text":"所以有一些是對這裡有深厚感情的人那有沒有人是比如說是教職軍工教職就是退休然後來擔任志工的因為我發現在很多美術館裡是有這樣背景的哥哥姊姊去當志工好所以也有幾位那大部分的人呢 您呢"},{"start":2612.253,"end":2612.593,"text":"為什麼想要選擇來立法院?"},{"start":2640.904,"end":2662.875,"text":"所以您可能是對於古蹟建築本來就有興趣的大部分的人都是這樣子嗎那你們有沒有人也在其他的單位擔任那你們的生活其實很豐富耶您是一到五都有在不同的因為"},{"start":2669.215,"end":2694.53,"text":"哇 這句講的我覺得很好 對不對就是我覺得我在很多的場館裡面遇到的志工哥哥姊姊們都讓我感覺到他們是對於台灣很有熱情然後特別是對於文化這一件事情其實大家是很重視的所以想要透過你們的經驗然後去協助管社再繼續傳承下去給"},{"start":2695.831,"end":2697.032,"text":"：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":2715.2,"end":2736.01,"text":"建築相關然後一直到畫廊然後到後面其實主要都是在私人單位做展覽的策展所以其實我對於接觸導覽這件事情或是導覽之所以我的需求其實是因為展覽的原因那我今天跟大家做的分享其實會比較跟"},{"start":2738.691,"end":2763.076,"text":"電機在我做展覽以及帶小朋友們做展覽的這過程裡面跟大家做一些分享然後以及下個階段就第二個階段我想要跟大家一起來做個簡單的練習也想要了解一下你們對於你們那麼長期以來在做立法院的導覽上面你們自己心裡面最想要介紹給觀眾的是什麼"},{"start":2765.356,"end":2786.451,"text":"然後你們也想一想如果今天是你們可以回到一個最初就是你們為什麼想要來立法院當志工那你想要從這邊獲得什麼你想要聽到立法院的什麼故事因為大部分的人其實是沒有在立法院工作過的嘛所以當初你還是白職的時候你對於立法院的想像是什麼好嗎好"},{"start":2788.696,"end":2807.684,"text":"我先給大家看一個簡單的數據其實從2018到2022中間有經過2020到2022其實都是屬於在疫情的期間不管是不是在疫情期間好了其實這個"},{"start":2809.684,"end":2809.704,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":2825.862,"end":2853.512,"text":"的展覽而且這個展覽是只有我現在這邊文化統計網算進去的其實是只有比如說美術館博物館然後這種視覺藝術工藝設計類型的展覽還不包含像是比如說像現在總統府也會辦展覽也許未來立法院也會辦展覽就是還不包含這一些比較文史類型的展覽我們就有"},{"start":2854.392,"end":2882.236,"text":"每年就有一萬多檔的選擇那大家把它除以12就是就有一個概念出來了所以我們每個月其實我們有八百多檔八九百檔的這個展覽選擇那你們也可以再回想看看喔如果你們今天不是因為志工的身份在文化場館裡工作的話你們一個月裡面會去看多少檔展覽"},{"start":2885.031,"end":2913.95,"text":"有沒有人自發性去看兩檔展覽以上的有嗎 有那很棒很棒你們都是藝文愛好者我只要在這裡找到知音了那很好對那因為這個數字其實我去其他的地方去做分享的時候我會發現其實大部分的人當我問到說那你一年一個月會看幾檔展覽的時候大家就突然安靜下來沒有像各位哥哥姐姐們那麼"},{"start":2915.071,"end":2924.749,"text":"活絡跟我點頭說有有我有看兩檔展覽以上所以從這邊其實我們可以知道在台灣展覽的現況其實是有一點功過於求的"},{"start":2925.902,"end":2945.673,"text":"因為你800多檔展覽全台灣,你就算每天去看一個展覽你都看不完嗎?可能在台北你都看不完了,那你要怎麼去評斷說你要選擇比如說去外縣市甚至是離島去看哪一些展覽?"},{"start":2948.034,"end":2962.469,"text":"因為我自己長期在做展覽的產業裡所以我就在思考是不是在這種供過於求的情況之下其實展覽是不是也需要我們有識讀的能力"},{"start":2964.39,"end":2980.794,"text":"對 識讀的能力是什麼呢 大家應該都很清楚 我們會寫字 我們會算數 我們能夠閱讀跟別人溝通 這就是一個最基礎的識讀那到了80年代的時候 歐美開始流行起來的是所謂的圖像識讀 因為那時候電視開始很普遍廣告"},{"start":2984.275,"end":2999.26,"text":"．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":3013.265,"end":3026.755,"text":"從什麼是展覽然後什麼展覽是怎麼被做出來的那他們才有機會去從一個製作的過程裡瞭解了之後他才能夠去理解展覽裡可能在傳達什麼內容"},{"start":3029.117,"end":3042.748,"text":"對那因為展覽大部分現在當然有很多所謂互動型的可是如果大家去看過展覽也會去理解到其實所有的訊息都是所謂的策展單位或是所有的管社在單項輸出給你的"},{"start":3044.489,"end":3069.356,"text":"所以我為什麼要特別跟大家講這件事是大家的身份其實對立法院來說會是非常重要的因為你們是第一線要去跟觀眾面對面的人所以你們提供什麼樣子的資訊你們代表立法院去提供什麼樣的資訊給來聽的民眾的時候他們接收到的就是所謂立法院給他們的訊息"},{"start":3070.475,"end":3095.92,"text":"那所以試讀這一件事情我會覺得如果我們可以從我們要做導覽的人先開始的話那未來我們在呃帶這一呃應該是說我們在帶導覽的時候其實也能夠去提提供出來其實是具有一些判別性的訊息給我們的觀眾去理解甚至是有更進一步的互動好"},{"start":3097.16,"end":3097.541,"text":"竹竹"},{"start":3113.321,"end":3129.278,"text":"應該是孩子或是孫子們去過華山文創園區應該大家都很熟悉就是宜蘭的中興文化園區就是有點類似那樣子的空間那大家進到那樣的空間覺得跟去美術館有什麼樣子的差別"},{"start":3132.21,"end":3132.47,"text":"中文字幕提供"},{"start":3154.404,"end":3154.545,"text":"感情"},{"start":3170.075,"end":3192.764,"text":"場地的布置因為場地的條件就不一樣嘛 對不對所以那個氛圍給你的也會不同所以大家有留意到一個很重要的事情就是空間其實他自己會說話 對不對所以你放什麼樣子的內容在這裡就算是一樣的內容會因為你的空間而帶給觀眾不一樣的感覺"},{"start":3195.492,"end":3218.789,"text":"那所以在宜蘭中心文化園區我們做這一個所謂當代藝術的展覽的時候我也發現其實對大部分的觀眾來說你去華山一定會覺得比較輕鬆相對於你要去美術館跟博物館對不對你去美術館或博物館你可能不一定會帶著說我今天是要去休閒去娛樂的心情"},{"start":3219.309,"end":3235.422,"text":"但是大部分的人去華山應該都是帶著這種今天下午沒事我們去華山走一走但你可能不會說今天沒事我去歷史博物館看個展覽類似這樣子的那所以呢"},{"start":3236.823,"end":3252.431,"text":"空間這件事情到底它可以給觀眾什麼樣子的影響以及當我們在台灣有越來越多這樣所謂非典型所謂的替代空間的時候其實它是很容易讓觀眾對於展覽的這個概念去混淆的"},{"start":3253.271,"end":3282.188,"text":"就像我剛剛講的你到正式的博物館、美術館跟你在華山你帶著不同的心情去的時候你看展覽的意圖就會是不一樣以及你對於展覽的認識、行為也會隨之去改變那這也是延伸讓我覺得展覽試讀會是很重要的一個事情那再加上其實現在越來越多的展覽都很講求互動性所以我相信很多人去到像華山那樣子的場域你一定最"},{"start":3283.43,"end":3309.312,"text":"模糊的事情就是這個展品到底可不可以碰然後這個東西我可不可以跟他一起合照可是進到美術館可能很多東西他是有很明確的被規範出來的那所以這個就是為什麼我要提出展覽識讀的概念以及對於我來說我覺得有了這個識讀的能力其實我們就像是賦權"},{"start":3310.993,"end":3311.013,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":3329.449,"end":3329.689,"text":"文化平權"},{"start":3347.924,"end":3368.03,"text":"每一個人來到這個博物館來到這些館舍都可以去利用所以我想各位過去可能在導覽過程中也會包含有一些比較特殊的團體來參與的時候這其實都是屬於博物館禁用的這一個部分包含你們導覽在做的事情"},{"start":3368.53,"end":3385.916,"text":"其實他也是一種博物館的禁用也是今天我們要講的這個試讀概念下一個很重要的事因為透過你們的解說其實觀眾他可以更了解這個文化景點這個場域的時候你就是在協助他去認識了立法院"},{"start":3386.576,"end":3402.931,"text":"包含剛剛秘書長有提到他希望未來大家在導覽的過程中可以去強調建築的特色、意識的規則這其實都是建立我們的來聽的這些觀眾我們一般民眾更多對於立法院的這個瞭解"},{"start":3404.042,"end":3405.563,"text":"展覽試讀展覽試讀"},{"start":3422.532,"end":3441.69,"text":"解析 把它變成流程化然後用學習單的方式不管是在安寧新聞跟小朋友分享或者是實際上我們也做了一些操作包含跟國家人權博物館然後我也跟華山合作過去做這個兒童策展的工作坊"},{"start":3443.031,"end":3462.31,"text":"實際上在做策展工作坊的過程裏面我們會發現其實小朋友有很多想法只是他沒有機會或是沒有人鼓勵他可以更完整的把它說出來"},{"start":3465.473,"end":3483.7,"text":"後來從202121年開始我們就是持續跟嘉義市立美術館合作那也讓大展伸手做展覽的這個計畫開始有一個比較我們講行動研究就是每一次工作坊裡面我可以發現問題在下一次的工作坊裡面再去"},{"start":3484.48,"end":3486.982,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習"},{"start":3506.497,"end":3511.5,"text":"2021��113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":3531.809,"end":3556.462,"text":"我們都有這一個單位就是這個館舍這個場館成立的宗旨然後延伸出來就會是它的功能是什麼所以以立法院來說就跟美術館不太一樣以立法院來說它的功能是什麼大家可以就應該第一個我們先想它成立的宗旨是什麼為什麼台灣我們需要有立法院這樣子的機構"},{"start":3560.112,"end":3580.274,"text":"為什麼需要有這樣的功能所以這兩個東西中止跟功能我覺得會是在導覽裡面它會像是一條隱藏的線你們的導覽的主軸其實是必須要一直環繞在這件事情上的這就是我剛剛講到你們要給觀眾什麼他要帶回去什麼"},{"start":3583.35,"end":3597.205,"text":"對所以這個你們可以想一下立法院的宗旨跟功能然後這也是為什麼我在第一年帶孩子們去做就是策展工作坊的時候要先讓他們了解"},{"start":3598.266,"end":3626.557,"text":"美術館跟為什麼這個城市為什麼嘉麗市需要一個美術館它一定有它成立的宗旨嘛比如說以嘉麗市美術館來說他們其實是奠基在過去畫都的這個歷史傳統上然後以及他們希望能夠從前輩藝術家跟推廣當代藝術這樣子的角度去建構這個館舍那對美術館來講它的功能我們在講傳統的博物館的功能不外乎是"},{"start":3628.098,"end":3629.943,"text":"典藏研究"},{"start":3631.161,"end":3659.484,"text":"展示跟教育然後還有現在一個最重要就是剛講的休閒娛樂可能是這五大功能所以希望可以讓孩子們知道這五大功能其實跟美術館他建立起來的這個宗旨有沒有什麼樣子的關係所以他們以這個部分去策劃了一個展覽以及包含美術館的工作人員其實都有每一組的人都有進來跟他們去分享說比如說我典藏研究組"},{"start":3660.365,"end":3660.545,"text":"美術館﹑美術館"},{"start":3690.625,"end":3704.853,"text":"他們其實是一個是我覺得就是讓孩子們對於職業的這個認識有了更多元的想法那第二個是讓他們知道一個管社其實它被建立起來的時候"},{"start":3706.434,"end":3706.454,"text":"委員：1"},{"start":3727.199,"end":3740.795,"text":"看到實際委員們在開會甚至是走到他們開會的現場裡面應該是所有的觀眾都覺得最印象深刻的部分 對不對"},{"start":3742.256,"end":3769.643,"text":"所以這個也許可以給大家作為一個在想像未來你們安排導覽的軸線上面或者是說你們要怎麼去跟觀眾介紹的時候其實最吸引觀眾我身為一個觀眾我覺得那會是最吸引我的點因為我看到了平常可能在電視上才能看到的東西然後還有像那天我在議場的門口因為每次在新聞上面都會看到很多電視台在那邊"},{"start":3770.743,"end":3793.493,"text":"．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":3799.189,"end":3802.371,"text":"2021��113年下半年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年下半年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年下半年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年下半年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":3821.883,"end":3845.14,"text":"在美術館裡面的藝術教育區主要是給兒童使用的藝術空間去實現的等於小朋友自己想概念小朋友自己做設計以及美術館把它實現出來的一個展覽所以在2022年小朋友去做了這樣子的企劃"},{"start":3848.263,"end":3866.462,"text":"為什麼我想要跟大家分享是其實我們常常在講說目標觀眾好了我覺得導覽的確也會需要有分靈的需求因為不同年齡層 特別是大家知道現在"},{"start":3867.643,"end":3867.923,"text":"蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸"},{"start":3887.043,"end":3906.008,"text":"分享的主題我想要用聽故事跟說故事的人是因為故事這件事情啊其實不管我們到幾歲我們都喜歡聽然後也包含我自己過去在帶導覽的過程裡面我覺得大家想要聽到的就是"},{"start":3907.188,"end":3933.195,"text":"他看到的東西以外的事情故事這件事情永遠都會是最迷人的因為它會跟人是很有關係的所以我們在帶小朋友做世界在變這個展覽的時候其實是用了嘉義的前輩藝術家叫郭東榮他的作品郭老師其實剛好在2022年的年初過世了"},{"start":3934.055,"end":3958.152,"text":"國老師是一個很熱愛生命﹑很愛台灣的人因為他過世的時候大概是八十幾歲所以大概六十幾年的創作生涯裡面其實他的風格是一直在變的對他來說唯一不變的是他對於這個世界的"},{"start":3960.333,"end":3986.545,"text":"熱愛對所以世界在變這個系列的作品其實是到了他晚年應該是他過世前大概15年左右才開始發展出來的作品然後他一口氣就畫了好幾上百件的這個作品所以也可以從他那個風格裡面開始逐漸看到比如說他一開始要畫是因為他想到他年輕的時候在日本求學"},{"start":3987.245,"end":4009.635,"text":"然後帶著他的小兒子去在日本搭地鐵的那個過程然後他就覺得哇他到了老年的時候他回想起這段經驗然後他覺得就是那個是他這個這輩子裡面可能在那個時候是最珍惜的一段回憶所以他把它轉化成創作"},{"start":4010.555,"end":4038.701,"text":"所以在他《世界在變》的早期的作品其實可以看到的是很多像是城市 線條上面很多像是城市啊 軌道這樣子的痕跡然後以及包含他在每一件作品裡面就這一系列的作品裡面他都用非常明亮的色彩然後呢 大家今天回去也可以找一找郭老師的作品就是非常有趣 很多小細節都會有一顆紅色的球"},{"start":4039.961,"end":4040.161,"text":"黃色球是月亮"},{"start":4055.493,"end":4082.784,"text":"所以他其實用了很多對孩子們來說也很容易理解的符號來去表現他對於這個世界的觀察然後對於實事他自己的想法是什麼所以因此他這個系列的就是世界在變這個系列他就是只有做編號而且尺幅都非常大大概都有每一張大概都是兩米兩米寬以上的"},{"start":4084.798,"end":4109.094,"text":"所以像我們其實就是為了讓小朋友可以更近的去看這個作品因為平常我們看畫作都是像我們現在在看電視這樣可是因為做這個工作坊的關係我們其實就有輸出成大的帆布像野餐店那樣那小朋友就可以走上畫上去所以我剛剛講的像城市那樣子的軌跡的時候其實小朋友是很容易去想像就是"},{"start":4111.476,"end":4113.857,"text":"我不知道大家在做導覽的過程中會不會準備道具會嗎會準備什麼樣子的道具"},{"start":4142.431,"end":4165.891,"text":"會準備塗雷射筆還有呢會不會有一些輔助觀眾的因為我聽過一個很厲害的導覽老師他就是在介紹加美館的建築的我剛講到說故事這件事"},{"start":4166.972,"end":4188.831,"text":"今天建築呈現在我們面前,我們就只能看到他現在的樣子,對不對所以呢,那個老師他很用心是他手上有一個,他就有一個iPad,他自己做了很多功課所以他會一頁一頁翻給你看,這個是日日時代的嘉義美術館這是後來他變成公賣局的時候,然後什麼建築特色還放大給你看"},{"start":4189.571,"end":4208.603,"text":"所以對觀眾來說他有這些圖文的輔助雖然只是一次性的可是他看到過去跟現在的一個對照的時候其實是會讓他有身歷其境的想像有那個所謂的代入感我們現在很喜歡講什麼沉浸式的"},{"start":4209.483,"end":4209.943,"text":"展覽展覽"},{"start":4230.137,"end":4252.643,"text":"所以你們的任務其實是怎麼轉化來聽的人他有身歷其境的感覺他怎麼跟著你一起你講到以前是立法院以前是在做第二女高的時候的這個場景裡會不會有一些像我剛剛講的小故事郭老師的這些小故事跑出來"},{"start":4253.763,"end":4272.39,"text":"那這個事情其實可以讓建築空間或是剛剛我講讓這個畫作變得更人性化一點因為我知道了我在現場我看不到的東西我聽到了你們去跟我分享這個空間這個建築過去的一些小故事然後 好"},{"start":4278.021,"end":4294.592,"text":"主要是跟大家分享小朋友他們當時自己真的寫完了我們講的策展論述他們也自己做了主視覺的設計跟做了一個展示設計的模型"},{"start":4299.064,"end":4309.213,"text":"20位小朋友用簡報的方式 包含模型的介紹向嘉美館的館長去做一個提案跟他說我們想在這個藝術空間做這個展覽也因此嘉美館他們"},{"start":4315.848,"end":4315.868,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":4334.073,"end":4334.854,"text":"：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":4358.757,"end":4363.001,"text":"：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習"},{"start":4382.438,"end":4405.804,"text":"因為在這美術館裡有我做出來的東西所以在這邊我想要跟大家說的事情是在導覽過程裡我覺得還有一個很重要的任務其實是你怎麼去建立起觀眾他跟立法院之間的連結在博物館學裡面我們在講展覽必須要去創造意義"},{"start":4408.574,"end":4434.591,"text":"創造意義對觀眾來說他才能夠把博物館展覽你的東西你在展的東西帶走他才會成為他回憶的一部分因為這個事情跟我的生活有連結對我們都知道立法的這個事情跟我們的生活是有非常大緊密關係的可是為什麼大部分的人還是覺得這跟我很遙遠是吧"},{"start":4439.422,"end":4454.197,"text":"對嗎所以今天我覺得我們來做的練習就可以來想想看到底我們可以怎麼去創造觀眾透過你們的導覽我們怎麼去創造觀眾跟立法院之間的連結大家有沒有覺得自己的任務越來越重要了"},{"start":4455.225,"end":4474.892,"text":"其實你們真的 我真心覺得每一個場館的志工都是扮演著一個館舍跟觀眾之間非常重要的一個關係建立人就包含你們下午其實要去當代館嘛剛好要去看那個關係人的展覽嘛 對"},{"start":4476.3,"end":4476.32,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":4494.867,"end":4508.858,"text":"各位志工哥哥姊姊們的角色其實是讓每一個有機會踏進這裡的人都覺得這件事情其實跟我有關係我也想要跟立法院有連結我也想要跟立法院產生關係"},{"start":4515.571,"end":4532.876,"text":"小朋友當初在策展的時候其實是用了玩樂的概念其實不意外但是怎麼在玩樂裡面又可以有寓教於樂的功能我覺得就是我們在這個展覽裡希望能夠去結合的"},{"start":4533.456,"end":4557.352,"text":"所以儘管他們可以在這邊玩這個爬坡可以去玩這個滾球可是實際上在展覽裡面我們還是去置入了希望可以讓孩子們從來這個展覽裡包含他們自己在設計的時候也有去思考到是他們也希望讓觀眾來可以認識郭東榮老師以及可以認識抽象畫是什麼"},{"start":4561.55,"end":4564.792,"text":"我讓大家很快看一下那個過程就好了"},{"start":4579.594,"end":4607.903,"text":"所以這個是實際上小朋友們在這個空間裡我們正式開放前做了壓力測試所以有邀了三組就是有開放三個時段讓小朋友去做體驗然後這個是當時的館長賴依馨她其實我們能夠持續這個計畫很感謝她是因為她也認為這個藝術教育這一塊是重要的特別是讓小朋友可以從幕前到幕後"},{"start":4608.923,"end":4627.029,"text":"．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":4631.349,"end":4649.094,"text":"說真的我覺得沒有那麼難就包含我今天要跟大家做的練習一樣其實我們就是從五個W一個H開始那我會發現大家應該也知道就是你們都有面對過小一點的孩子小朋友在有一個階段他很喜歡問為什麼但是大人在那個時候會覺得你好煩"},{"start":4656.997,"end":4683.354,"text":"所以後來他們就不問為什麼了所以等到他們去學校的階段他們都不會想為什麼了等你變成你問他說你為什麼喜歡這個東西的時候他沒有辦法給你更深入的回答他只能說他比如說我上工作坊我都會跟小朋友說不要跟我說因為我就是喜歡或是我覺得他很漂亮那你可不可以進一步告訴我哪裡"},{"start":4686.152,"end":4711.349,"text":"5個W所以我通常都會從Y開始去問他們然後開始去問說那你覺得哪裡漂亮哪裡有趣一步一步去延伸問題但是因為孩子們在問我們為什麼的時候他們不會這樣循序漸進問我們所以會常常變成說我們只會覺得你為什麼有那麼多問題可是其實我們忘了我們才是去那個"},{"start":4713.208,"end":4718.472,"text":"我自己對我自己的小孩也是"},{"start":4743.548,"end":4759.426,"text":"所以包含我們在做工作坊我會像很多像他們大部分都是五六年級的小朋友所以已經有一些偶像包袱在了很怕答錯現在的小朋友學業壓力都太重所以很怕答錯"},{"start":4760.487,"end":4786.644,"text":"所以他們來上課我第一天要跟他們講的事情都是這邊沒有所謂對錯的答案你們的答案對我來說都是最棒的所以就建立一個跟孩子們的一個安全感讓他們覺得這個是一個安全的環境所以其實如果未來大家有機會帶到小一點的就是比如說國小的孩子去做導覽的時候我相信大家一定會用很多"},{"start":4788.005,"end":4801.011,"text":"問答的方式希望去引導他們的注意力那我覺得對孩子們來說其實要讓他們知道的是我們歡迎各式各樣答案就是沒有什麼對或錯今天就算他講說這個"},{"start":4803.919,"end":4824.455,"text":"這個建築物的功能或是他想像這個建築物可能他一定不會去想說可能這以前是學校或是什麼那也許他給你的答案會是更有趣的比如說小朋友最喜歡講就是像我們做那個美術館的活動也是他們最愛講說我很希望美術館可以變成像百貨公司"},{"start":4827.859,"end":4844.824,"text":"遊樂園 但是在這個的背後其實他有他的原因在所以我們比如說小朋友如果想要把立法院變成一個遊樂園那也許我們可以來問問看小朋友為什麼希望這裡變遊樂園其實他可能只是希望覺得這裡很好玩他以後也想要常來啊"},{"start":4845.504,"end":4870.57,"text":"但當然立法院不可能變成一個遊樂園可是我們可以從後面也許更進一步去問他們比如說那如果在這裡是遊樂園你希望有什麼你想要在這裡玩些什麼遊戲有什麼樣子的遊具在這裡其實可以鼓勵他們去回答那我自己都會覺得像我們做展覽做工作坊包含你們在做導覽其實為什麼我剛剛一直強調說你們"},{"start":4873.692,"end":4892.454,"text":"志工是管社去面對觀眾非常重要的一個我不能講媒介,你們是很重要的人是因為你們其實是第一線在協助管社做所謂的觀眾研究"},{"start":4894.042,"end":4911.347,"text":"你們今天來面對的人 如果你吸引了孩子的注意力你吸引了 不管 我覺得就算是那個委員代選民服務也是哇 他今天如果來這邊聽那個 志工導覽他很開心你們其實幫了委員很大的忙啊 對不對好"},{"start":4915.559,"end":4931.479,"text":"接著這邊的話就是我們其實就是今年有持續希望在這個展覽裡面在持續增加更多孩子們的一些我們所謂讓他們自己再延伸去做更多的設計在這個展區裡面"},{"start":4934.162,"end":4953.84,"text":"所以接下來的就包含今年跟明年我們都會讓這一個長社展就剛剛講的那個藝術教育區他還是會有一些小型的設計的變更在裡面呃呈現那等於在這三年的長社展裡面每一年就像這個展覽名稱叫世界在變一樣"},{"start":4954.821,"end":4977.06,"text":"其實孩子們不同：而且是不同批孩子們的創意一直持續加入進來所以這又回到我剛剛前面一直強調的就是我們去建立起美術館跟孩子們的這些關係那大家可能也會留意到欸我想問一下其實小朋友來參觀是不是大部分都是跟學校"},{"start":4981.403,"end":5003.416,"text":"我跟大家分享一個研究就是我們在博物館裡面的研究小朋友啊我們都知道學校教育對小朋友是很重要的一件事情然後包含現在也會很鼓勵學校帶小朋友去做校外教學去做這些文化管轍、文化體驗但是實際上"},{"start":5006.048,"end":5017.45,"text":"對孩子們來講要跟家講所以我要鼓勵大家帶著你們的孩子孫子去文化館社常常去看展覽因為這才會建立起他們"},{"start":5019.165,"end":5041.626,"text":"這一些文化體驗的習慣因為對小朋友來說我跟學校去那個就是學校的事所以我脫離了學校我就不一定需要繼續這個習慣可是如果他從小比如說週末沒事我們就會去華山我覺得也很棒就會去這些文化場館去做體驗的時候"},{"start":5043.067,"end":5064.15,"text":"那個對他來說,那個就是他建立其他一個所謂休閒習慣的可能性那這也是我們講為什麼現在的博物館、美術館,包含我覺得未來立法院都有可能變成一個很重要對於觀眾來說都可以變成一個很重要的休閒的文化景點的原因"},{"start":5065.342,"end":5093.044,"text":"也才會是我們跟這個管社建立起關係創造出意義的可能所以常常去參觀包含大家要帶這一些來參觀的觀眾去做導覽這個都是息息相關的事所以今天雖然我是用一個我們帶孩子做策展工作坊以及我長期下來在做展覽的一些製程可是"},{"start":5094.185,"end":5110.256,"text":"我在準備這份簡報的過程裡面其實我也很謝謝就是立法院讓我有這個機會就是我會覺得其實這個事情好像不需要去分開去思考其實它的邏輯都是蠻一致的"},{"start":5112.372,"end":5113.313,"text":"：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":5129.582,"end":5156.458,"text":"來說他可能要到11歲以後就是小五小六之後他才會有所謂的聯想他的聯想能力才會比較好那所以在我們在做這個工作坊就會發現其實每次做工作坊可以收的孩子很少而且年齡蠻限定的那因此從去年開始我們也試著對年紀小一點的小朋友來做所謂的展覽試讀的推廣"},{"start":5157.719,"end":5184.693,"text":"那我們就用小小觀眾養成指南那這個活動的概念其實是我們從英文的Look到SeeLook跟See中文我們都會講看嘛 對不對但是你在仔細想的或是你在仔細去找他的定義的時候你就會發現Look其實他比較有"},{"start":5186.699,"end":5201.033,"text":"輕描淡寫不是輕描淡就是隨意一點的看我們用look但是see有什麼樣子的意思See除了看之外還有什麼樣子的意思大家知道嗎"},{"start":5203.752,"end":5219.433,"text":"有理解I see我懂了我知道了對所以他其實是有更深層的就是進到心裡去理解的這個部分那因此從看你只是走馬看花的看到你真的理解這中間需要什麼"},{"start":5221.249,"end":5238.869,"text":"需要觀察所以小小觀眾養成指南其實就是在告訴大家其實就在引導孩子說你來看展覽你可能可以從哪些面向學著去觀察去找到你覺得有趣的東西所以這也是我們等一下要做的"},{"start":5241.37,"end":5256.495,"text":"這個練習裡面為什麼要大家提供照片要找照片要找一張會說故事的照片就是這張照片其實就是一個帶領我們進入到觀察的一個印製好"},{"start":5260.663,"end":5261.644,"text":"其實我們是帶小朋友去認識整個展覽 包含他從視覺上的呈現"},{"start":5279.504,"end":5279.885,"text":"展覽展示設計"},{"start":5302.507,"end":5327.337,"text":"這個小小觀眾養成指南跟平常美術館裡在做的導覽比較不一樣是我們其實不一件一件去講作品給小朋友聽比較像是讓小朋友我給你幾個讓他們有點像尋寶一樣我給你幾個線索請你去找到比如說策展人為什麼想要做這個展覽"},{"start":5328.537,"end":5354.624,"text":"藝術家他在這件作品裡面你覺得最有趣的元素可能是什麼然後回來再去跟他們做討論好喔 那我的分享先到這邊告一段落然後好像是不是休息時間然後大家休息一下等一下回來我們可以來分組做一個小小的練習等一下會第一個階段會需要大家兩個兩個一組"},{"start":5357.29,"end":5378.223,"text":"所以我不知道分組上面大家會不會有什麼樣子的期待你們要自己隨機還是照目前的座位比如說跟面對面的夥伴來做這個練習這是不是你們可以趁這十分鐘討論一下好不好那就我們進到休息時間謝謝大家"},{"start":5385.957,"end":5400.928,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5407.592,"end":5416.018,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習"},{"start":5432.209,"end":5435.81,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":5457.694,"end":5471.706,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":5478.452,"end":5485.361,"text":"發言委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5494.791,"end":5504.777,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":5519.066,"end":5524.25,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5533.498,"end":5536.14,"text":"發言委員：113年度立法院志工研習：完整"},{"start":5557.754,"end":5557.954,"text":"議員﹚完整會議"},{"start":5576.314,"end":5577.594,"text":"反映抽離 反映抽離"},{"start":5601.519,"end":5602.74,"text":"發言委員：完整會議"},{"start":5624.771,"end":5627.473,"text":"老師張美我去過我去年有去張美謝謝謝謝"},{"start":5642.706,"end":5643.966,"text":"對阿 新舊建築 加美謝謝"},{"start":5670.393,"end":5681.079,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5694.046,"end":5700.03,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5713.779,"end":5714.32,"text":"委員：完整會議"},{"start":5729.739,"end":5733.42,"text":"議員：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":5755.009,"end":5755.57,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5774.806,"end":5785.614,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":5792.539,"end":5794.5,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":5813.993,"end":5815.075,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5829.572,"end":5836.575,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5855.562,"end":5866.806,"text":"委員：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度"},{"start":5885.193,"end":5898.316,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5913.82,"end":5923.126,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":5941.357,"end":5952.405,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":5986.582,"end":5992.327,"text":"好的各位志工老師那我們就先請請素護坐第二堂課即將開始"},{"start":6002.585,"end":6020.875,"text":"各位志工姐姐 各位志工哥哥因為我們接下來大家要不要先回到位置上了不好意思喔好"},{"start":6027.608,"end":6047.435,"text":"因為我們第二堂課的時間有限然後希望大家做練習跟等一下也希望大家分享所以我覺得比較簡單的方式會不會是大家跟對面的夥伴或是左右的夥伴好了因為這樣要講要聽比較容易好嗎可以嗎"},{"start":6049.448,"end":6059.397,"text":"好那你們自己決定好了對就是看是要對面或是左右都可以那我先簡單講一下規則喔然後因為我等一下會計時齁好"},{"start":6063.833,"end":6085.993,"text":"我們接下來就要進到下半節的課是要請大家交換角色你們以往都是說故事的人導覽其實就是在講故事所以今天希望你們換一個角度來當一下聽故事的人所以我們來想像一下我剛剛前面一直強調其實"},{"start":6088.429,"end":6107.2,"text":"現在立法院他希望開放民眾可以來參觀來聽導覽就是把自己當作是一個所謂的文化景點嘛那這樣子的文化景點大家要怎麼為這個地方說故事大家要"},{"start":6108.576,"end":6136.041,"text":"想一想你們曾經服務過的這些觀眾他們來其實他們想要聽到什麼樣子的故事或是你們自己假設你把自己我剛講到嘛你們當初為什麼會選擇立法院或是把自己當作一張白紙回來的時候你想要在立法院聽到什麼樣子的故事呢那公關處這邊好像有幫大家準備了一些可能可以挑選的照片對不對"},{"start":6137.461,"end":6148.494,"text":"所以你們也可以從裡面挑然後你們也可以如果你們自己有一些私訪照片我也很歡迎好不好所以我是要你們選擇一張"},{"start":6151.121,"end":6178.916,"text":"你們最能夠為立法院講故事的照片因為剛剛有一位志工哥哥跟我分享是其實你們要帶導覽的時間是需要被控制在一個小時內嘛所以包含觀眾來帶了識別證包含整隊包含把他們還要帶去議場一定要去嘛檢報然後還有檢報好像我記得是15分鐘嘛對所以你們可能實際上有時候還要留拍照的時間"},{"start":6180.237,"end":6187.476,"text":"所以我們想像其實你們大概只有30分鐘可以講這個故事那"},{"start":6188.995,"end":6217.495,"text":"這是為什麼我今天希望你們只選擇一張照片的原因因為等一下我們在做這個練習的時候大家先聽我講一下喔兩個兩個一組的原因就是你們要彼此去聽所以比如說我現在是先當說故事的人那我就要先跟我自己就要先想一想為什麼我要選擇這一張照片我們一樣從剛剛壞開始然後呢"},{"start":6218.556,"end":6235.359,"text":"你覺得在這張照片裡面有什麼樣子的故事是你想要去說的然後也請你們想一想哦我覺得這很重要就是你現在講的這故事你想要跟誰分享是什麼樣子的年齡層什麼樣子可能有什麼樣子的喜好"},{"start":6236.32,"end":6261.342,"text":"因為這個是我想要協助你們去做分靈還有包含未來團體來的時候會有不同的課程嘛所以你們那麼多人其實我相信大家擅長講故事的對象是不一樣的那透過這一個練習其實希望給立法院一個參考比如說未來小朋友的團來可能是"},{"start":6262.543,"end":6289.221,"text":"某一位志工姊姊很擅長但是可能國高中來可能是您就這位志工哥哥很擅長之類的那這個是希望你們把你們想要講故事的對象也寫出來然後最後請你們想一下你想要花多久的時間講這個故事好嗎那聽故事講這張照片的故事對好"},{"start":6290.731,"end":6308.998,"text":"那聽故事的人呢你要做的練習是從你為什麼想要來參觀然後你想要在這個過程裡看到跟聽到什麼你是一個怎樣的觀眾然後跟你預計這一次的行程要花多久的時間"},{"start":6312.291,"end":6338.845,"text":"所以你們可以先找好分組之後我想要先請說故事的人先開始選擇照片你可以先選擇照片聽故事的人可以先想完這所有的流程所以你們等一下在練習的過程裡面其實你們彼此可以去相對應一下"},{"start":6339.665,"end":6353.05,"text":"如果你想要講故事的對象跟你的夥伴其實是一樣的的時候你們就可以去做一些理解好嗎好OK那我們這一個環節有"},{"start":6357.007,"end":6357.147,"text":"10分鐘開始"},{"start":6377.292,"end":6381.713,"text":"委員：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度"},{"start":6400.077,"end":6402.158,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":6429.928,"end":6435.072,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":6452.063,"end":6452.804,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6468.846,"end":6469.667,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":6497.192,"end":6511.397,"text":"來不好意思我發現那個大家有一些順序上的問題對不對好來我說大家可以先花五分鐘大家現在都先當聽故事的人好不好你們都先寫聽故事的人"},{"start":6513.942,"end":6540.421,"text":"所以這五分鐘你寫完你的想法之後等一下你跟你的夥伴你寫完自己想聽什麼樣子的故事之後請你就可以準備轉換你的身分變說故事的人你先找一張自己想要講的照片但是在進入你去寫說故事的人的這一個部分的時候請你要先讓你要先聽對方"},{"start":6542.731,"end":6554.804,"text":"就是你的夥伴要告訴你我想要聽什麼樣子的故事所以你在針對你選的這張照片去寫說故事的人這樣理解了嗎"},{"start":6557.799,"end":6577.985,"text":"先寫 請大家先寫聽故事的人先寫完 對 你想要聽什麼樣子的故事你寫完之後呢 接著你就要轉換身份 變成說故事的人所以在說故事的人這邊 請你只要先選一張照片"},{"start":6578.965,"end":6602.109,"text":"好 所以選完照片之後呢 你跟你的夥伴 你們都寫完聽故事的人了嘛 所以請你們彼此分享等於你要用你的這張照片 為你的夥伴去回答說故事的人這邊要講的 所以你要去理解到你的夥伴他可能是一個怎樣想要來聽 他想要聽什麼樣子的"},{"start":6604.335,"end":6616.549,"text":"故事你可以怎樣在這個照片裡面去符合他的需求比如說如果我選擇的我想要來立法院瞭解議事規則好了"},{"start":6617.796,"end":6646.169,"text":"可是我的夥伴選的照片是立法院的那個匾額那你們就要去想出來我怎麼用這個匾額我有什麼樣子的方法可以讓他去理解到立法院的議事規則這兩個東西有沒有可能有怎樣的連結性這個是需要你們發揮你們的經驗跟你們的知識的好嗎所以這才是這個練習很需要你們的原因"},{"start":6651.907,"end":6671.994,"text":"開始開始開始你們先寫先寫我們都先寫聽故事的人我們都先寫聽故事的人沒有沒有都先寫沒有你也先寫聽故事因為你們我們先把各自的需求寫下來我們現在都是觀眾"},{"start":6674.182,"end":6697.323,"text":"對 我們現在都是觀眾喔然後呢 我們都寫下來我們的我們為什麼想要來立法院參觀我想要聽到什麼看到什麼 獲得什麼然後你覺得你自己是一個怎樣的觀眾是不用不用不用你可以自己設定"},{"start":6698.547,"end":6708.773,"text":"你可以自己想像你也可以是小朋友啊你也可以是國中生、高中生、大學生對嗯"},{"start":6717.028,"end":6742.983,"text":"沒有關係啊 這只是一個練習啊大家不要有壓力因為我需要讓你們我這個過程其實只是需要讓你們了解觀眾的需求是什麼我們怎麼設身處地為他們想所以希望你們都練習你們都先當觀眾你們先從觀眾的最佳體驗這件事情出發然後我們再回來想如果我今天要說故事給這樣子的"},{"start":6743.763,"end":6744.263,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6762.938,"end":6789.061,"text":"所以現在請大家都先寫聽故事的人這邊為什麼你想要來立法院參觀然後你期待在這個過程裡面看到什麼聽到什麼獲得什麼然後你是一個怎樣的觀眾就這邊你可以想像你也不一定要寫自己的年齡自己的喜好你可以想像你可能可以是怎樣的觀眾"},{"start":6790.814,"end":6790.974,"text":"三分鐘喔"},{"start":6809.298,"end":6837.279,"text":"不用不用我們一起動作好了我們現在就是只先寫聽故事的人好不好我們先把聽故事的人這邊寫完等一下我們再進一起進下一個動作所以我們在26分的時候我們會希望我希望大家先完成聽故事的人聽故事的人就好了先不要寫說故事的人喔先聽故事"},{"start":6839.761,"end":6865.431,"text":"所以請你們都先回到觀眾想像自己今天是來立法院參觀的觀眾然後已經完成的哥哥姐姐你們可以先挑照片就先挑照片就好了"},{"start":6866.704,"end":6895.683,"text":"然後如果你們自己有一些其他的私房照片也很歡迎可以從手機裡面幫我找出來先挑照片沒有沒有就寫完的寫完聽故事的人可以先挑照片對我們先挑照片他後面也有附照片對你們可以選後面的照片也可以選自己的照片"},{"start":6897.743,"end":6901.648,"text":"最後一分鐘我們要完成聽故事的人"},{"start":6918.657,"end":6919.497,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6942.961,"end":6966.361,"text":"好的那請各位完成聽故事的人那接著呢請你們選擇一張照片因為我們現在要變成說故事的人了所以如果你已經選擇好照片請你開始可以先寫第一個為什麼你選擇這一張照片"},{"start":6969.212,"end":6996.536,"text":"我們現在要進入到說故事的環節所以如果你選擇好照片你可以先寫為什麼你選擇這張照片然後呢我們就要來做練習了請你們兩位你跟你的夥伴呢先告訴彼此你們想要當什麼樣子聽故事的人"},{"start":6998.22,"end":7006.715,"text":"好嗎 你剛剛已經寫下你是怎樣的聽故事的人嘛剛剛你是怎樣的觀眾你可以先讓你的夥伴知道"},{"start":7008.058,"end":7031.576,"text":"然後呢你聽完你的夥伴的聽故事的需求之後請你依據這張照片去完成說故事的人後面裡面你需要寫的包含這張照片裡有什麼樣子的故事你覺得適合說給誰聽然後呢你要花多久的時間才能說完這個故事"},{"start":7032.837,"end":7053.195,"text":"我希望這個內容是能夠盡可能符合你的夥伴的需求的請你有一點像是你可以想像你去幫你去幫你的夥伴量身定制一個聽故事的他講給你聽你講給他聽照片之間不需要連結"},{"start":7058.43,"end":7063.235,"text":"我需要你想辦法講出從你的照片裡面想出什麼樣子的點可以符合他的需求"},{"start":7082.082,"end":7105.573,"text":"你的照片要跟他的需求符合不是不是他講他的照片的故事但是你是聽眾嘛所以他要幫你想你想要聽什麼樣子的故事"},{"start":7109.463,"end":7133.692,"text":"你懂嗎不是你不需要講他的照片你講你的照片你現在說故事你是聽故事對不對聽故事 說故事說故事的人選照片"},{"start":7136.451,"end":7161.338,"text":"然後他是聽故事嘛所以他有他的需求對不對所以你要依據他的需求去講這張照片的故事就是聽故事他剛剛是聽故事的人啊因為你他現在就要告訴你你這樣理解嗎嗯"},{"start":7164.286,"end":7189.374,"text":"你聽故事你說故事說故事的人選照片但你要幫聽故事的人依據他的需求去說你這張照片的故事"},{"start":7193.689,"end":7194.57,"text":"有沒有人不理解遊戲規則"},{"start":7224.181,"end":7249.964,"text":"然後你們可以把它寫在畫頭的這一格,你要講什麼樣子的故事?你們現在都是聽故事對不對?好,那接著你們就要變成說故事的人所以你們要先選擇先跟後"},{"start":7251.095,"end":7279.154,"text":"你們每一個人都要先選一個自己的照片你現在要說故事了所以你要選一個你要講的照片那如果是你先的話你先寫你為什麼要選這張照片好然後接著呢你就要聽他說他為什麼想要聽他想要聽什麼樣子的故事他為什麼想要了解立法院然後他想要了解來看到什麼聽到什麼所以你要依據你的照片去幫他設計這個故事"},{"start":7282.943,"end":7295.935,"text":"對,設計適合他聽的故事是,因為你是觀眾對,你是聽眾,你是導覽員,說故事的人所以你要為你的觀眾去想他想聽什麼"},{"start":7298.834,"end":7324.575,"text":"你要先選對對對沒錯因為景點有可能我們要講的點可能是固定的但是有可能來聽的人是不一樣所以這個練習是要讓你去想你怎麼去變化你面對不同觀眾的時候你怎麼去調整你的故事你心裡一定有一個你想要講的故事嘛對不對可是你可不可以為他想一個他想要聽的故事可能是什麼"},{"start":7325.854,"end":7349.793,"text":"所以這是為什麼要你們先寫出觀眾的需求是什麼?好嗎?客製化 對對對 對 對所以你們每一個人都會當說故事的人喔你們都會從聽故事的人變成說故事的人去練習"},{"start":7352.851,"end":7354.812,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":7377.639,"end":7383.913,"text":"好 我們再兩分鐘在11點35分的時候我們要完成這一個練習喔"},{"start":7387.407,"end":7389.268,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":7413.919,"end":7415.159,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":7438.286,"end":7449.876,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":7462.746,"end":7467.027,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":7489.861,"end":7493.242,"text":"好,各位是不是都寫完這一個部分了"},{"start":7515.819,"end":7540.293,"text":"大家感覺起來分享得非常熱烈好我們先暫停一下我們先在這邊告一個段落然後大家是不是都有把你的夥伴想要聽的故事幫他設計出來了"},{"start":7542.697,"end":7568.392,"text":"那我想要做一個簡單的調查好不好因為你們剛剛都有選照片對不對好來那我想要知道一下大家選擇的照片有哪些欸有沒有同仁可以幫我記錄一下是為好那我直接來問喔"},{"start":7570.12,"end":7599.178,"text":"有選擇AA這邊的照片的夥伴可不可以舉手所以A的部分有三 欸 四位好那B的呢 B的夥伴選照片B的夥伴B 我剛剛看到 嗯哈BB的舉手 B的舉手喔B的舉手喔"},{"start":7601.348,"end":7622.619,"text":"這個跟等一下分組有關係喔好再來11的11這一頁的夥伴有沒有11沒有人選嗎 有好 有兩位11 然後再來"},{"start":7628.084,"end":7655.811,"text":"這邊比較偏向宣誓跟合影的D?ABCD的D?D的有沒有?D的有 好 有兩位好E?E的有一位所以建築的人比較少選建築的人比較少 是嗎?E的那G呢?"},{"start":7658.107,"end":7685.175,"text":"F也有一位建築的G的也有一位H呢有沒有人選HH沒有I有兩位然後JJ有沒有"},{"start":7687.382,"end":7692.286,"text":"我想要問一下大家"},{"start":7712.881,"end":7739.25,"text":"我想請問一下你們年齡的部分就是你的聽觀眾的受眾的年齡你們都寫些什麼內容因為我想要依據受眾幫你們做一個分組然後你們就可以排出一個動線出來你們都是寫自己的年齡嗎有沒有人寫不是自己年齡的有嗎您是寫哪一個年齡層"},{"start":7741.48,"end":7749.509,"text":"國中剛畢業一般人一般人我們把他設定在30到40"},{"start":7756.636,"end":7778.729,"text":"真的嗎 老少咸宜的人舉手我好奇老少咸宜的哇 大家很厲害要講老少咸宜故事不容易喔那我可不可以請老少咸宜組的志工夥伴請你們先站在一起"},{"start":7780.01,"end":7788.778,"text":"因為我想要你們討論出就依據你們剛剛有選擇照片嘛所以我們在看最後這一頁號的這一頁的時候不知道為什麼來我們看一下你們來看一下最後一頁就是剛剛有紫色圖的這一頁"},{"start":7804.969,"end":7826.695,"text":"紫色圖 抱歉抱歉剛剛說故事的人跟聽故事的人的下一頁抱歉等一下是這一頁這一頁對這一頁喔好好的這一頁我現在要請你們做的事情是請你找到你想要說故事的人的"},{"start":7828.168,"end":7854.648,"text":"同年就是你們的屬性是一致的比如說剛剛有老少嫌疑組的那老少嫌疑組的夥伴我希望你們聚在一起因為你們選擇的照片的點可能是一樣可能是不一樣 對不對所以我希望你們在號這一邊幫我去設計一個觀眾的我來聽導覽我要帶他去看什麼在哪一些點位上"},{"start":7855.834,"end":7880.572,"text":"然後這樣就會把你們剛剛講的故事是可以串起來了可以理解我的意思嗎好 所以我們現在來分組 有沒有人也是我們先老少咸宜組可不可以先這樣 出列老少咸宜組請出列來 趕快趕快我們不要影響吃飯時間 老少咸宜組"},{"start":7882.659,"end":7891.005,"text":"老少咸宜主來我看有幾個人沒有問題 沒有問題"},{"start":7893.604,"end":7921.312,"text":"二四六八十那我們是不是十個人二四六八十我們五個人五個人一組好不好五個五個人一組五個五個人去畫出這個導覽的地圖這些地圖要是地圖上的點要跟你們剛剛選擇的照片你要講的故事是要有關係的喔好不好好那你們五位哥哥一起"},{"start":7922.697,"end":7944.671,"text":"你要被美女們夾攻了那你們五位一組你們可以選擇位置接下來有沒有人有特定年齡層的有沒有人要參加青少年這一組"},{"start":7953.274,"end":7982.304,"text":"好 所以你們六個人一組是嗎好 沒問題有沒有人要加入青少年組的你要加入老少咸宜組那邊人有點太多了欸蛤來 我們這樣 那我想問一下您本來設定的年齡是什麼"},{"start":7986.348,"end":8011.562,"text":"青少年嗎?剛剛是不是,您也是青少年?姐姐,那您有沒有加入青少年?對啊,還是我們這邊做青少年組,可以嗎?成熟人嗎?你們設定是什麼年齡?沒有問題?你們也是嗎?那你們四位?"},{"start":8012.932,"end":8030.757,"text":"我們講給50歲以上的好那你們四位五位好好好沒有問題姐姐我們參加青少年組可以嗎好那我們五位青少年可以嗎好我們試著看看那這邊呢你們想要講給誰什麼年壯年組30歲沒有問題那我們30到40的好不好"},{"start":8041.36,"end":8041.68,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8069.824,"end":8092.395,"text":"好那請你們在﹐你們可以把它畫在一個人的練習本上然後呢我們馬上把它拍下來我們來上傳到那個簡報裡面來對畫點畫點畫點告訴我那個位置在哪裡好不好"},{"start":8110.164,"end":8113.246,"text":"好了嗎 那我幫你拍起來我幫你加"},{"start":8115.938,"end":8123.946,"text":"發言委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":8134.146,"end":8137.729,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":8150.859,"end":8151.36,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8165.919,"end":8168.681,"text":"來來來,給我喔這邊是老少姐,哇,很豐富,很棒你們不要過來"},{"start":8187.071,"end":8187.972,"text":"沒問題了?沒問題了?謝謝"},{"start":8202.331,"end":8206.956,"text":"委員：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":8221.452,"end":8233.345,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":8257.039,"end":8266.542,"text":"好喔其他組有沒有討論的差不多了有沒有"},{"start":8269.929,"end":8281.818,"text":"我們現在看到那個頭影幕上的是老少咸宜組一跟老少咸宜組二所畫出來的動線大家都看得清楚嗎"},{"start":8284.11,"end":8313.282,"text":"然後我覺得有一點有趣是雖然都是老少咸宜但是他們的動線安排上不太一樣所以呢因為今天不好意思時間比較有限我蠻想要聽大家都講的可是在有限的時間內我想要請老少咸宜組一跟老少咸宜組二可不可以先來跟我們分享一下"},{"start":8315.407,"end":8325.214,"text":"就是你們怎麼在這個動線上做安排你要講怎樣的故事來 我們老少協議主一誰要做代表好"},{"start":8329.722,"end":8335.769,"text":"我想先問一個事情,你們所設計的這個動線是多少時間內要完成的?這個簡單的動線大概是15分鐘完成你可以看著大家講,沒有問題"},{"start":8346.52,"end":8368.957,"text":"施文中講就是說我們從這個進來的是在門口第一個看到就是一個立法院的這個匾額讓大家知道就是說立法院是國家最高的一個立法機構今天我們來參觀就是這邊同時可以介紹這個匾額目前的匾額跟南京政府那時候的匾額的這個的嚴格歷史"},{"start":8370.538,"end":8370.758,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":8392.449,"end":8418.018,"text":"議場就是立法院最高的一個單位一個會場就是議政國事因為他是一個施展民意為民意發聲一個立法的一個民意表現的最高的機構那經濟之後大家可以介紹就是說我們現在很深入其境的在這個會場裡面第一個你可以看看你透過你們選區選出來的委員"},{"start":8420.179,"end":8420.799,"text":"：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":8437.365,"end":8453.502,"text":"．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度"},{"start":8458.127,"end":8459.808,"text":"：113年度立法院志工研習："},{"start":8482.964,"end":8506.173,"text":"好 謝謝我覺得這個是一個很精巧但是可以讓大家第一次來的觀眾他可能可以很簡單去理解到立法院的歷史跟剛剛講的一些議事規則這個我覺得是一個蠻好的排程的就是這個導覽的規劃然後是適合"},{"start":8511.829,"end":8512.209,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":8533.198,"end":8556.879,"text":"讓我可以用最快速的方式去認識立法院跟我們的關係是什麼然後以及這個立法院他的一個很簡單的嚴格那想要問一下第二組老少咸宜組啊你們設計了那麼多點是不是會比剛剛這個容易上手版有再深入一點點的內容呢"},{"start":8561.889,"end":8580.724,"text":"所以您打算這個行程你覺得會走多久因為我們來立法院他們每個層級各領域不同他們有的來是要存示範的 放一下存示範的半小時 一小時 有的是兩小時"},{"start":8582.608,"end":8597.766,"text":"你說吃飯是不是不是啊 他們來賓每一層次不一樣嗯嗯嗯 了解了解可是要拜訪委員 跟委員座談的我們就是要看 這邊是我的經驗給心理同仁稍微 給共同參考 了解一下齁"},{"start":8598.687,"end":8622.986,"text":"我剛才為什麼隨著6點 因為我都是坐了一小時的參觀點當然大門穿插那個鏡子 然後說我們走過去那個簡報室然後再到議場 然後到那個我就是那個民運黨團 國民黨團那個記者招待會的場景因為他們要在多點的時間 我就帶到福利社"},{"start":8624.146,"end":8650.911,"text":"6次福利社那邊有紀念品立法院的紀念品有的日外賽多要想參觀的還有怎麼樣的另外我個人的經驗就是有八卦他們喜歡聽八卦的我這邊有點經驗給他們靠他們八卦老少仙女他們喜歡聽什麼適合他們是這樣的所以說選了這個六點大致上這比較是抓一小時是走得完的嗎可以嗎OKOK很好OK就這樣"},{"start":8651.411,"end":8676.809,"text":"大哥剛剛有講到八卦我上次來就都沒有聽到八卦我八卦我下次要跟你的行程來講不好意思我是警衛隊的 警隊修理當然我出了事件很多聽到的是很多但是就是說看你們喜歡聽觀眾想要問什麼的我就要問一下你們想聽什麼的想要知道什麼的立法院的 有過立法院的當然外面我不知道立法院的我都可以把它解鎖是這樣"},{"start":8677.816,"end":8678.437,"text":"好 太好了 太好了 對"},{"start":8694.552,"end":8713.649,"text":"所以除了歷史建物的故事人的故事也很重要然後像我覺得那個福利社那邊應該也是一個很吸引觀眾想要去參觀的點對不對這邊很棒那還有沒有別組 青少年組完成了嗎"},{"start":8722.412,"end":8746.893,"text":"你們有沒有畫地圖我幫你們播出來沒有沒關係要不然您用口述的告訴我們你們覺得青少年組來的話可以去哪幾個點青少年來的話因為他們年輕那他年輕的時候呢大部分都會講解立法院的由來就是排斥那個立法院那他排斥是從哪裡來的"},{"start":8748.134,"end":8771.434,"text":"當然就是說從中山堂那邊簽過來簽過來的話他們很想說像他所說的一些故事當時以前不是有民運嗎民運曾經被踩下來那現在民運呢民運以前的帶頭者成為我們現在的立委然後我會鼓勵他們說"},{"start":8773.395,"end":8789.23,"text":"在我們在你要成為這個歷史的過程裡面你一定要有自己的特質那所謂的特質就是人際關係然後你自己個人的想法那你們這些小朋友以後也許每一個人現在進來參觀"},{"start":8790.771,"end":8792.693,"text":"議員：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度立法院志工研習：113年度"},{"start":8822.533,"end":8827.257,"text":"委員．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習．113年度立法院志工研習"},{"start":8844.631,"end":8873.447,"text":"毕恭毕敬的整理一下仪容才能够进入一进来的话我们就正对着时间的地方两边那个就是罗汉松会讲解一下罗汉松的那个历史典故然后一些我们现在有很多植物小朋友对植物比如说现在有很多大部分都是改成桂花桂花飘香小朋友慢慢走进来最主要是小朋友他们的异常"},{"start":8875.508,"end":8885.814,"text":"對議場那議場前面那個大的那個廣場除了集合以外以前這個地方就是一個池子曾經從中山堂過來以後"},{"start":8890.937,"end":8895.418,"text":"前面的游泳池 為什麼是游泳池 以前土地比較大 這個游泳池為什麼被拆掉"},{"start":8909.702,"end":8929.503,"text":"為什麼被拆以前呢就是就是曾經就是可能被轟炸掉也可能是我們立委的行為我們沒有辦法歸屬所以我們小朋友呢將來你的品性言德都一定要很重要不是說你在成為立委的時候呢你可能"},{"start":8932.185,"end":8932.826,"text":"剪報室剪報室"},{"start":8951.86,"end":8967.699,"text":"看電影的感覺在這邊看電影看完電影的話我們就循著道路就是循著又回到議場去參觀議場那在議場裡面真的是一個非常重要的地方我想說告訴他們說你們今天是一日委員"},{"start":8968.76,"end":8991.57,"text":"你現在是在這裡,當然以後的話,可能你走進來的話,也許是終身的委員那考慮他們是如何品性嚴德,如何在你的生活規範裡面,在你讀書求學的過程裡面,你應該往哪一個方向去然後告訴他們,我們的語言形態,說話能夠代表自己,人格,平德,這才是最主要的"},{"start":8992.19,"end":8993.01,"text":"蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":9023.919,"end":9039.043,"text":"謝謝這位大姐我覺得她分享到兩個很重要的事情因為你們的對象是青少年所以她講到一個很重要的事情我覺得是建立起可能是年輕的孩子對於立委的這個職業"},{"start":9041.684,"end":9062.862,"text":"他應該要有一個正式的認識應該是說比較正面的認識對機會教育沒錯沒錯這個我覺得是很棒的然後第二個就是我覺得他有特別去提到我們的生活來聽的觀眾的生活跟立法院跟這些在立法院裡面工作的人立委的關係是什麼"},{"start":9063.482,"end":9090.197,"text":"所以大姐一直強調說立委其實是需要去關注到我們的民生議題所以我覺得像在訪問中就是在代導中其實也可以去問孩子們就是這些青少年那他們關心的所謂他們的民生議題他們關心的是什麼因為委員會裡面其實也是有特別關注教育跟青少年這一塊的可是委員們到底知不知道孩子們"},{"start":9091.238,"end":9108.191,"text":"想要的是什麼這個其實就是我剛剛一直強調你們其實是立法院甚至是未來這些委員們他們去面對他們的選民包含立法院去面對一般大眾的時候你們是很重要的第一線"},{"start":9109.452,"end":9133.666,"text":"所以我會鼓勵大家我剛聽起來其實大家都有對這裡很多的知識不管是問大家想要聽什麼樣子的八卦或是了解他們想要聽到什麼他們關心的議題是什麼我覺得那個都有機會可以讓你們的導覽更豐富然後更有人情味在裡面然後像有幾位"},{"start":9134.967,"end":9145.172,"text":"志工朋友：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．事由：113年度立法院志工研習．"},{"start":9160.979,"end":9175.021,"text":"真正工作的人所以如果有這個機會我可以聽到我就會有清零現場的感覺原來你跟我們一樣都是朝九晚五有的時候也想要摸魚一下那你都去哪裡"},{"start":9176.707,"end":9176.927,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9206.967,"end":9207.187,"text":"主席"},{"start":9224.795,"end":9240.913,"text":"我想我們是不是再次用最熱烈的掌聲來謝謝胡總監今天給我們帶來這麼多精彩的經驗跟技巧的分享那我想立法院是一個很高度政治場域的一個地方大家應該都有感受到"},{"start":9241.714,"end":9265.664,"text":"所以在這種狀況之下大家面對不同政黨各地的鄉親來大家專業的引導能力就相當重要了就靠大家用專業來介紹我們立法院讓大家去認識立法院所以這樣子的課程我想是上不完的所以我們後面都會陸陸續續上下半年來繼續安排給大家"},{"start":9266.084,"end":9267.364,"text":"謝謝胡老師 我們準備了紀念品"},{"start":9295.888,"end":9307.445,"text":"希望以後胡老師還有機會來多跟我們交流喔好那大家坐在原位不用動喔就從講台這樣子拍下去"},{"start":9312.881,"end":9315.284,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9343.253,"end":9360.766,"text":"口罩可以拿下來把你們漂亮的臉蛋露出來帥氣的臉蛋好比愛心"},{"start":9367.456,"end":9367.676,"text":"主席"},{"start":9395.123,"end":9422.226,"text":"我們待會用餐的時候入席是有排桌次表的大家到現場可以看一下自己是坐在第幾桌有沒有人不知道書堂餐廳在哪裡的我們跟著學長學姐們的腳步一起走照顧一下我們的新隊員"},{"start":9425.083,"end":9427.724,"text":"跟不上的可以跟我,我會壓在後面"},{"start":9451.716,"end":9452.558,"text":"委員會主席"}]},"會議時間":"2024-08-09T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"113年下半年度立法院志工研習（事由：113年下半年度立法院志工研習）","委員發言時間":"09:30:16 - 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林教授來替我們講解一堂"},{"start":1827.285,"end":1827.405,"text":"致贈禮物"},{"start":1875.846,"end":1894.337,"text":"謝謝處長的介紹各位主管各位科長各位同仁大家午安很高興有這個機會來跟大家分享這個主題我每次都說很高興因為對我來說難得可以站在這裡跟大家分享但我對大家來說不一定很高興為什麼我每次都會問主辦單位說這個題目對我們來說如果是預防"},{"start":1900.44,"end":1924.087,"text":"其實我自己的教職在空中大學我們是數位化的學校我自己比較多年的工作經驗其實是做心理師我做心理輔導工作到今年應該算第30年這樣做心理輔導工作其實我們心理師常常被找來如果是預防我就覺得很開心預防就是沒有發生什麼事情大家先來交流一下一些觀念"},{"start":1925.087,"end":1943.864,"text":"如果通常是發生事情之後再找心理師通常就沒有好事這樣我常常都跟很多企業的HR說有時候我們尤其是災難後危機後再找心理師來比如說我自己五月有一個客戶他也是我們台灣的公家單位在五月份的時候有一個員工墜樓"},{"start":1946.272,"end":1973.202,"text":"當我們說意外墜樓的時候都不是不小心公安事件墜樓都是沒有注意到他的身心狀況然後同仁也自己沒有積極的就醫這有好多的因素所以在這樣的發生這樣的狀況下底下通常在早心裡是來我記得我去這家單位的時候早上是法師然後下午是我這樣那法師當然做的是信仰上面的安心安慰"},{"start":1973.982,"end":1994.492,"text":"當然我做的工作比較希望對大家來說那個單位有發生事件的人然後衝擊的人還有特別同仁在發生這個事情之前最後一句話跟他講話的是他的主管所以大家就會在單位裡面有很多不必要的一些留言不必要的一些氣氛造成了"},{"start":1995.012,"end":2014.959,"text":"所以我常常說我們心理師最好是沒有什麼事的時候出現以預防的角色出現所以我想今天來是跟大家來談預防就是我們怎麼樣在職場上面可以打造一個友善的職場然後來預防一下這個職場上的霸凌的事件剛剛處長跟我開玩笑說我們每一次搖滾區"},{"start":2017.11,"end":2017.51,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2035.138,"end":2058.708,"text":"因為後面有一個白板這樣不過因為今天講台那個螢幕在前我就沒有往後轉了這樣因為有時候換一個角度然後學生也會本來習慣做最後一排的學生就會突然變成第一排這種轉換一下角度上課也是一件很有趣的事情也會有不同的觀點那我想今天或許有一些觀念各位長官各位主管"},{"start":2059.688,"end":2085.068,"text":"各位同仁可能都已經有些概念了那我想我還是就我一些經驗來跟大家做一些分享希望我自己在很多不同單位遇到過的事情不會在各位單位裡頭重複的發生或者大家可以再怎麼樣去實踐你知道的這個概念比較不會落入在職場上有些比較多的糾紛我想每一樁職場霸凌的申訴案都要付出相當大的代價好 那"},{"start":2087.23,"end":2112.251,"text":"我想跟大家來多分享一下今天下午的兩個鐘頭我們先來認識一下所謂的職場不法侵害第一個它在定義上面怎麼樣界定叫做不法侵害因為這是一個很難界定的事情好 那對我來說我的專長比較不是在法律所以我想我比較從一個心裡面的角度來多跟大家介紹一下在不法侵害裡面的四個類型身體上的暴力"},{"start":2113.512,"end":2114.433,"text":"肢體上的暴力"},{"start":2143.372,"end":2145.715,"text":"第三個是萬一遇到了各位主管或各位同仁該怎麼辦我們要怎麼樣遇到了要怎麼樣來處理這是第三個"},{"start":2163.493,"end":2184.648,"text":"第四個我們總是希望談這些都是能夠預防然後不要有這麼多的一些衝突事件第五個是我想可以跟大家多分享一下人在壓力底下我們怎麼樣去把自己的溝通跟壓力的調適做好這樣自然而然在職場上的一個壓力或壓迫事件當然可以減少一點"},{"start":2187.427,"end":2208.332,"text":"從法律上來看目前在台灣依據的兩個法令在每個單位大概都是如此公部門的部分大概就是以行政院人事總署頒定的職場霸凌的建議參考原則這是公家機關依循的法則"},{"start":2209.352,"end":2210.133,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2232.912,"end":2252.429,"text":"這個建議所為就是霸凌的一個辦法的建議所為的處理以及再加上勞動基礎法裡面相關的法則那我們先來看一下其實先沒有談到這兩個法則光是我們的刑法裡頭其實就有一些有關於跟霸凌相關的法令了比如說假設你的樣態是公然侮辱了"},{"start":2253.79,"end":2272.246,"text":"公然侮辱當然不只是涉及到霸凌也都涉及到一些刑法那勞動基準法也是勞工對雇主如果有施行暴力或侮辱的行為當然相反過來不只是勞工對雇主雇主對勞工當然也不能施行這樣的一個暴力的行為所以這個在職安法裡頭有清楚的規範"},{"start":2276.67,"end":2278.732,"text":"在第六條最新修訂的法則當中"},{"start":2298.65,"end":2314.097,"text":"性別工作平衡法裏頭也有一些修訂了比如說僱主如果知道單位裏面有同仁遭受到這些性騷擾然後如果這個僱主沒有採取糾正跟補救措施我自己在業界有一些客戶"},{"start":2315.137,"end":2340.306,"text":"就是企業界的他們有一些主管知道了卻沒有跟人資部門來討論也沒有報給主管然後公司沒有積極的在做輔導或糾正像這樣通常員工都可以告上來之後其實雇主都會被裁罰所以在企業裡頭光是保障我們每個人在工作上的一個性別平等法裡頭都有這樣的規定的"},{"start":2340.806,"end":2366.267,"text":"包括民法裡頭也有規定喔公司的主管如果知悉然後同仁也在工作當中有受到霸凌的現象其實沒有去協助的話公司一樣就連帶的有一些民事賠償的責任這是在法規上面的大家可以先知道一下那我們在法規上面當然貴單位比較多同仁都是以公務員員的部分為主喔公務員員法那勞動部也修訂了"},{"start":2369.263,"end":2394.523,"text":"在海內外在國外國內都有這樣的案例申訴成功就是被保險 尤其是勞工他在勞動基金法的保障裡頭如果他要執行這個業務如果他可以舉證說他罹患的精神疾病這個疾病跟他在做的工作業務有關聯那他其實是可以申請跟這家公司說他這是工作造成的"},{"start":2395.043,"end":2410.393,"text":"我自己有幾個客戶是這樣申請到職業病的傷害補助的當然這個他要去舉證他的精神疾病上的壓力或情緒上是怎麼樣造成是工作上造成的也不是只有民間企業有"},{"start":2413.135,"end":2413.375,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":2433.835,"end":2450.902,"text":"當然這是在精神科的醫師協助底下去舉證他這份的壓力真的是由這份工作造成的這個在我們國內外或者私人單位、民間單位都有這樣的案例去提出來當然勞基法裡面就更明確地在第159條這樣定定"},{"start":2453.343,"end":2474.314,"text":"如果員工是因為執行的這些工作而遭受了這樣的精神上的壓力那當然就可以去認定這是一個職業病比如說我有幾個客戶他是超商我的客戶的案例我通常不會拿來演講的時候當作客材素材但因為這個案例大家在新聞上都看過了"},{"start":2475.154,"end":2500.924,"text":"好在那個南部有一家便利商店他就是在疫情的時候去店員去執行規勸並那個客戶進店進店的時候戴口罩然後就被客人挖眼大家記得這個案件嗎然後在桃園有一個案件他執行店員去勸客人說你進來我們店裡面要戴口罩這個在疫情嚴重的時候好然後就被拿出那個那個"},{"start":2502.665,"end":2503.826,"text":"：打造友善職場霸凌．預防職場霸凌．預防職場霸凌．預防職場霸凌．預防職場"},{"start":2523.255,"end":2523.555,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2543.01,"end":2544.81,"text":"霸凌的行為到底要怎麼界定"},{"start":2571.536,"end":2572.857,"text":"從定義上來界定的時候我們來看一下"},{"start":2589.525,"end":2613.319,"text":"在行政院的這個辦法裡頭有把那個積極的預防主管怎麼樣預防我們產生職場霸凌所以在一些相關的法條跟建議裡頭有把主管應該要避免的一些事情列下來我覺得這可以當作很多各位主管的參考就怎麼樣比較不會踩雷啊怎麼樣比較可以避開這種違反職場霸凌的一個踩雷、踩到線這樣"},{"start":2617.561,"end":2640.814,"text":"在組織裡面比較常見的大概有這幾個類型第一個就是我們說的肢體上的暴力也就是說我們對於同仁之間如果有一些直接的肢體攻擊這不只是主管對同仁也包括同仁對同仁當然也包括同仁對主管我自己也受理過很多案件是主管被打的"},{"start":2641.434,"end":2668.111,"text":"就像家暴也不是只有男生打女生女生也是會打男生一般在我們的統計的比例裡面大概有四分之一強左右都是男生被打這是在家庭暴力裡頭那職場不是只有主管會霸凌員工員工也可能霸凌主管或者平行之間互相的霸凌所以我們先來看一下類型常見的類型第一種就是肢體的攻擊"},{"start":2669.684,"end":2672.046,"text":"脅迫．名譽損毀．侮辱．嚴重的辱罵．歸類到精神上的攻擊關系．人際關係隔離．排斥．忽略．孤立．斷絕人際關係"},{"start":2692.381,"end":2708.778,"text":"第四個就是在工作上的要求如果對員工強行執行業務上明顯不可能的任務或者不必要的任務比如說常見的大概比如說最常見的就是叫自己的員工去處理自己的私事這叫做"},{"start":2710.199,"end":2726.266,"text":"不必要大家看那個穿著帕達的惡魔那個影片那個電影那個主管想要看哈利波特還沒出版的下一集還逼他的秘書要去把手稿要到像當然這是電影不過這種劇情裡面這叫做不可能的任務"},{"start":2727.566,"end":2729.387,"text":"第五個就是要求太低各位有沒有想過要求太低也是霸凌"},{"start":2752.376,"end":2776.402,"text":"換句話說把一個人冷凍起來不要給他工作這樣也是一種霸凌所以在霸凌的法規上面就是你給他的業務欠缺合理性比如說他是一個專業技術或者是具備的能力很高我們卻給他非常低階的工作來做這個地方一定要有非常足夠的理由來說服或者是來說明"},{"start":2777.882,"end":2794.108,"text":"所以如果給一個人非常沒有合理性然後就命令他做的工作是跟他的經驗跟專長還有他的能力非常不符合的低階工作甚至不給他工作那這個要求太低在公部門滿常見這樣的狀況的"},{"start":2797.54,"end":2821.122,"text":"我跟大家說在私部門完全不會有這種狀況在私人部門只會有要求過高老闆要的KPI都是很難做得到的為什麼在企業界不會有那種要求過低一開始會有今年都沒有什麼工作可是大家聽聽看在企業界當一個員工發現他沒有工作的時候他其實是會恐慌的"},{"start":2822.057,"end":2850.733,"text":"因為當一個人沒有工作的時候就代表他一整年的工作沒有在KPI上面所以一盤點明年年底一盤點的時候他這個工作的位置就會編制就會被收掉了所以在企業界很明顯沒有工作讓他沒有業務沒有負責專案這不是代退也不是二線代退也不是很良放的做專案而是他即將失業所以在企業界裡頭比較少"},{"start":2851.613,"end":2852.594,"text":"第六種 過度介入個人隱私的事情"},{"start":2878.194,"end":2894.533,"text":"我遇過有一些單位他其實是很這個主管他自己覺得自己是很關心同仁然後關心同仁的方式其實是有待調整比如說他非常的關心他單位裡面的同仁比如說有一個比較中齡的女生了"},{"start":2895.194,"end":2917.923,"text":"他就問他說 你說這個年紀還沒有交過男女朋友嗎?沒有人介紹過嗎?你都單身嗎?假日都在幹嘛?像這樣連環問就是太侵犯隱私了所以我們有時候原來關心要有一些關心的談話方式比如說對方不想談的時候我們就要停下來"},{"start":2919.143,"end":2920.724,"text":"這樣比較尊重對方的界限如果因為自己的職權所在是主管"},{"start":2943.553,"end":2972.309,"text":"而一直問一直問你自己的角度覺得這樣叫關心結果同仁不敢推卻不敢不回答他就覺得有被逼迫好像真的有這樣的案件就變成是主管過度的侵犯了員工的隱私那當然你說這樣就嚴重霸凌了嗎其實如果這兩個人主管可以提出來說我這樣問你好像臉色不好看多一點點敏感"},{"start":2973.349,"end":2992.67,"text":"這樣其實這件事情就可以有緩解了或者員工多鼓起勇氣說你不要這樣問啦這樣問我有點覺得不舒服我們沒這麼熟不要聊這個其實大部分的霸凌案都是因為兩兆沒有再多一句溝通它就很容易變成霸凌案了"},{"start":2995.046,"end":3021.972,"text":"我多說一個例子有一個主管他其實是從國外海歸回來非常的洋派他其實是沒有真的要霸凌他的員工但是他在單位裡面做了一件對員工來說很覺得職場上很恐懼也很不敢來上班的事情就是他每次要出去標一些案子的時候"},{"start":3022.712,"end":3051.884,"text":"他就覺得他在美國的習慣就是每次整個團隊都很激昂然後非常的有精神喔大家就是要出去拚博標案子了所以他每次要工作的時候就會跟大家說欸來加油一下這樣其實我們也會比如說大家來加油一下give me five啊或者喊個口號啊這很多單位會做的但這個主管他有一個習慣非常不好他跟他的旁邊女性的同仁這主管是個男性他跟女性的同仁說來抱一下"},{"start":3054.569,"end":3070.267,"text":"這個一爆就完蛋了這就是一個隱私的侵害我們人有身體的界線就是身體上的boundary也有心理上的boundary還有我們有行政上的boundary比如說你是他的代理人你可以代理他的工作"},{"start":3071.389,"end":3095.308,"text":"我們可能不會隨便去翻別人的抽屜不會隨便去挖抽屜裡面的公文 現在寫到哪裡把它打開來看 不會這樣做因為每個人都有自己的界限所以行政處理事情上 有行政的boundary你問他說 你單身很久這種心理上的boundary也得尊重身體上的boundary 哪些人可以抱 哪些人不能抱這就是身體的boundary"},{"start":3097.029,"end":3119.018,"text":"請問在座的主管跟同仁有些夥伴在視訊上看有些同仁在視訊上看的就自己回答我請教在座的主管跟同仁你可以接受你的辦公室的同仁不管性別男女你看生理性別也不一定是他的心理性別你可以接受辦公室現在"},{"start":3119.778,"end":3119.998,"text":"請舉手請舉手"},{"start":3137.95,"end":3159.947,"text":"好 謝謝請放下來好 大家可以看到不是我們在這裡如果80個人不是我們全部80個人都認為我的肩膀可以隨便被同事拍的我剛問的是同事 不是好朋友 也不是家人第二題 你覺得同事拍你的時候可以拍你的頭的你可以接受被摸頭 被拍頭的舉手"},{"start":3163.356,"end":3186.449,"text":"我們在座只有兩位我小時候常常被摸頭我的長輩常常就會摸頭說要乖然後要好好讀書要怎樣但是你們看我們在職場上其實是有不一樣的界線的那我問大家你可以接受同性的同事拍你肩膀的請舉手同性"},{"start":3189.495,"end":3213.646,"text":"這個舉手比剛剛多一點點了請放下來永遠我到每個單位都這樣不是貴單位有什麼問題每個單位都是一定有人覺得我不習慣你拍我的肩膀所以可以叫我但請不要拍我的肩膀我自己做心理師這樣輔導工作這麼多年我有一些個案在談話當中哭泣流淚哀痛不已"},{"start":3214.426,"end":3242.268,"text":"我要碰他的時候我一定會尊重地問他說我看到你淚流滿面我看到你哭了都快倒下去了我可以扶你一下嗎我有一些老人來諮商的時候他們其實有一些是需要參伏的我也會說我現在要扶你然後我扶你你再站起來可以嗎我自己當心理師都非常謹慎小心地去問我要碰你可以嗎"},{"start":3243.089,"end":3256.168,"text":"好 我要拍拍你的肩膀這樣可以嗎好 那我再多請教大家一個問題同事之間你覺得可以拍肩膀拍喔 不是摸齁各位不是摸肩膀喔是拍拍肩膀你可以接受的請舉手"},{"start":3260.151,"end":3288.16,"text":"好 我們大概有一半可以好 來那我剛剛是沒有問性別的如果再加上性別可能會有不同的考慮換句話說我剛剛問了大家這幾個問題我們在這麼多人裡面個別性的差異很大所以一定有些人在工作上他覺得他沒有跟你有這個熟悉到要被你拍背或者是拍肩膀有些人對這個會不舒服好 那我剛剛說的那個抱抱一定是所有的人都不行的"},{"start":3288.976,"end":3316.933,"text":"沒錯吧但是這個案件很特別的就是這個主管報了很多次報了很久這個同仁都沒有說一個NO一個不字我覺得當我到這個單位在開這個霸凌委員會的時候在我旁邊的律師就很不客氣問了一句話我當信息師比較不會這樣問他說那他報你的時候你好像沒有喊不違"},{"start":3318.594,"end":3333.75,"text":"這句話其實是有些不舒服的如果身為女性聽起來有些不舒服我這樣問的是發生了一段時間你沒有立刻說不但現在隔了多久多久了你提申訴了可不可以告訴大家你的理由"},{"start":3335.191,"end":3355.816,"text":"我自己在國中的時候坐公車的時候曾經被色狼在旁邊侵犯過那個侵犯就是好像要倒下來這樣還好是這種微小的侵犯但是那個對我來說體會到一件事情原來他有沒有碰到我我既然要奶油很久想很久說他剛剛有摸到我嗎"},{"start":3356.796,"end":3377.084,"text":"我還真沒有把握然後我就問一下我隔壁的同學說他剛剛有靠到我嗎我同學說是你的身體我怎麼知道啊然後我就感覺一下我剛剛有沒有真的被摸到了我還要想很久終於有一次比較清楚了我覺得他有故意摸到我結果呢我不敢喊出來你們相信嗎"},{"start":3378.304,"end":3407.235,"text":"國中的時候的我我就趕快提早下臨結果那天遲到因為我走很久的路到學校原來國中的我感覺旁邊有色狼我卻不敢喊說他很色狼我後來講給我的女兒聽我女兒說如果是我就給他打下去了我覺得我可以理解不同個性的人會有不一樣的反應我剛剛講的這個例子原來在報報底下這個主管當然侵犯了員工的身體界線"},{"start":3408.296,"end":3421.113,"text":"可是這個員工他在被爆的時候就僵住了這個是採訪才知道的事情就是他僵住了跟還有他不知道該做何反應第一個他想到的是喊出來會不會失業"},{"start":3423.462,"end":3437.481,"text":"大家相不相信這是他第一個念頭他如果喊出來他會不會失業這是他第一個念頭第二個念頭才是說很難受很受辱覺得不舒服覺得有不堪的感覺那我要說的是"},{"start":3438.542,"end":3459.748,"text":"即便是這樣明顯的超越身體界限一個人沒有喊出來說不要不表示他心裏面不難受但是我覺得這還是要回歸溝通如果這個女生再勇敢一點說不要啦 不習慣啦 不要這樣靠近啦沒有吃洋人這一套沒有這種美國文化沒有這種外來文化"},{"start":3460.288,"end":3479.406,"text":"他如果多一點點不管是開玩笑或正經的方式說不其實都可以有機會再溝通一下讓這個主管可以知難而退當然這個主管需要再自己調整他認為自己很洋派可是其實造成了同仁心理上很難受甚至覺得受傷這就是一個很嚴重的狀況了"},{"start":3481.368,"end":3489.5,"text":"這是常見的發生在主管身上的一種不法侵害我們要極力避免還有這幾種"},{"start":3491.533,"end":3510.935,"text":"我們來看一下樣態職場上的霸凌我剛剛說分做這四種我用案例來跟大家說我自己當然當心理師也好當老師也好案例都應該是要我的客戶服務的單位的案例都應該是要保密的我剛剛說的都是上了新聞的我們才拿來討論這樣"},{"start":3512.597,"end":3531.172,"text":"好 第一個這是職場 這個職場霸凌的第一種類型就是身體攻擊所以大家可以看到在成大醫院裡面這個案子這個體外循環師他在開刀房的時候拿這個刀子刺傷了他的女性同仁好 這個其來有自"},{"start":3532.273,"end":3556.843,"text":"在他發生這件事情之前他其實就有一些對他們彼此的關係就有一些不滿意了比如說他覺得他在團隊裡面受到排擠他覺得這個靈性的男生覺得誠信的女生常常刻意的帶領其他的同儕影響主管然後讓他在團隊裡面很難堪或者是遭受到排擠所以他還有被要求換辦公室"},{"start":3557.703,"end":3581.884,"text":"這裡也可以看到這個案例裡面主管要求換辦公室的座位的時候比較沒有去徵詢同仁的意願也比較沒有事前去跟他討論就說換命令他換就換所以他就加深了他的不滿所以這個體外循環師這個林姓的男子他就用蝴蝶刀傷害了他的同仁刺了七刀那當然這個案子就不只是"},{"start":3586.143,"end":3602.681,"text":"這是第一種類型在工作的場合上面讓對方身體受到傷害這是直接的攻擊身體攻擊第一種類型第二種類型大家看一下這個例子這個例子指的就是說這是英國的例子福特汽車"},{"start":3604.002,"end":3629.074,"text":"英國一家經銷商公司每個月禮拜五的中午都會訂披薩這是月曆會就是一個中午的午餐會報如果同仁大家一起揪訂吃披薩沒有揪你就是你人緣不好可是如果是工作上的會議"},{"start":3630.995,"end":3657.493,"text":"這個女生這個被告她一直都沒有被邀請她沒有收到email她沒有收到邀請要參加這個禮拜五的這個匯報她也沒有被問要吃哪一種披薩所以這個員工就一告就就告上一狀告上法院所以她控訴她的同事職場霸凌她然後判賠了2.3萬英鎊大概那個時候的90萬台幣"},{"start":3660.636,"end":3674.224,"text":"所以在臺灣雖然我沒有遇過這種沒吃到披薩的就告職場霸凌的但是有在我們臺灣有很多這樣的案例就是開會刻意漏掉不發通知給他"},{"start":3675.711,"end":3702.151,"text":"以至於這個同仁沒有參加到會議而且被受處罰這個在台灣是很常見的一些案例喔好 這個這樣子的案例類型屬於關係霸凌沒有身體傷害你說他只是一頓披薩沒有吃到而已這樣有什麼關係嗎好 關係霸凌 什麼叫關係就是他在這裡工作這裡的工作環境竟然會冷落他忽略他 忽視他 排擠他"},{"start":3703.392,"end":3729.722,"text":"如果是私人大家糾團團購東西這是私人情誼但是工作上沒有通知他這樣就叫做排擠這樣就是一個事證了所以工作上你不能因為對誰不高興而不通知他工作上的事情第三這是我們台灣19年的案例這個在三立新聞上面登的很多人的群組裡面就是"},{"start":3731.127,"end":3756.829,"text":"這家保全公司在群組裡面大家在排班這個排班的例子當中同事就用LINE在軟體裡面大家在討論排班起了爭執了其中有一個人就對這個保全阿榮說他就發了一個圖給他他說你的頭很像被門夾過這樣這一張這個其實就是一種他也沒有身體攻擊"},{"start":3758.848,"end":3784.991,"text":"好 所以他算是什麼樣的霸凌也不是關係霸凌 也不是冷落他他算是心理上的 言語上的他言語上沒有侮辱字眼 但是他用圖來酸他這樣所以這個阿榮就相當不滿 自覺受辱所以自覺受辱啊 他是屬於言語的還是心理的霸凌他就要來舉證了"},{"start":3787.193,"end":3797.326,"text":"當然這個法官後來 台中地院後來判定這是公然侮辱所以大家看一下你的LINE裡面只要有三人群組這個就叫做公開這樣"},{"start":3799.246,"end":3799.266,"text":"賴慶祖"},{"start":3829.846,"end":3830.767,"text":"最難界定的 像剛剛有賴截圖"},{"start":3859.115,"end":3885.177,"text":"所以早期大家還沒有這麼流行用LINE的時候有時候會收到一些猥褻的圖片罵人的話那時候大家第一個反應就是很生氣把它刪掉現在大家都知道要趕快把它存檔存下證據來所以現在用LINE來溝通會留下很多證據所以其實你沒有把握的事情要協調的事情要稍微交流溝通的事情其實大家用電話講跟用面對面講是最好的"},{"start":3885.737,"end":3912.629,"text":"用LINE文字下去很容易有誤會除非你加個尾音大家有沒有發現你在寫LINE的時候常常都要加個語助詞我說的語助詞不是那個發音的語助詞我講的是說那你已經完成了嗎有時候就要加一下字讓那個語氣稍微和緩一點所以用LINE有時候直接只有看文字不容易感覺到對方講話的氣氛所以我們重要的是最好能夠當面講或者通電話講"},{"start":3914.892,"end":3942.337,"text":"來看一下這個是語言上的霸凌語言跟心理上的霸凌不像剛剛有賴截圖然後有身體上攻擊 有證據 有受傷這兩個部分的類型是最不容易舉證的了所以我想要來跟大家多說一下語言上的暴力指的就是我們不管是用牢記法還是用我們行政院的版本我們現在霸凌的定義裡面就是有這幾個關鍵字"},{"start":3944.377,"end":3969.732,"text":"也就是說你如果用語言造成使用謾罵、詆毀、藐視、嘲笑等侮辱性的字眼然後致使一個人精神上跟心理上受到傷害跟損害霸凌的審查委員在20多年前大部分大家單位請的都是律師都是有法律專長的"},{"start":3971.113,"end":3999.579,"text":"自從這個類型很難界定之後就開始增加了心理師當然這是因為我們台灣有越來從90年之後我們就開始增加了這個執照叫心理師過往是沒有的我過往最早考的是社工師以前我們助人行業要做助人行業就是醫師不然就是社工師護士這樣的助人行業到了90年是因為其實是因為陳靜心殺害了白小燕事件"},{"start":4000.419,"end":4024.912,"text":"那時候我們中央機關政府機關聘請了一些很有名的大咖心理學家進去監獄裡面訪問陳進行出來之後就把他的故事寫成書大賣台灣才開始發現 喔 心理這個行業原來無法可管欸 心理這個專家到底要怎麼界定不能說當教授就是專家"},{"start":4026.325,"end":4026.645,"text":"主席"},{"start":4046.372,"end":4057.807,"text":"曾經有幾個立委想把心理師改成大學畢業就可以考心理師我們教授學校老師都群起反對沒有一個學校老師贊成一個醫生要七年"},{"start":4059.326,"end":4059.386,"text":"主席"},{"start":4078.233,"end":4103.065,"text":"4年不夠可以去看穿一個人心理上的特徵所以心理上的特徵我說這20年我自己當不法侵害的委員變得比較多是因為心理上跟語言上的霸凌案件變多了以前比較多的都是肢體上的霸凌或者工作上的安全 職安上的考慮越來越多的爭議就在精神跟心理上怎樣受到侵害"},{"start":4103.865,"end":4107.048,"text":"我來考考大家這個職場上的霸凌如果有一個同仁或主管說他要訴求申訴有一個人在職場上對他進行霸凌請問有沒有時效"},{"start":4134.316,"end":4135.097,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4151.26,"end":4171.84,"text":"一年有效原來這件事情是有效期限的在一年內他罵過他一次這樣就叫做A罵過B舉證也有賴截圖也有照片這樣就叫做職場霸凌嗎我們的定義裡面還有幾個字叫做連續為之"},{"start":4174.844,"end":4202.394,"text":"好 所以回來看法律上的定義有幾個很重要的指標了所以不管是身體還有心理 語言還有性上面這四種類型就是四種樣態跟家暴很像身體暴力啊語言心理暴力啊語言暴力 心理暴力跟性的暴力所以職場暴力的類型一樣這四種但是需要連續為之連續為之還有要一年之內"},{"start":4204.602,"end":4204.882,"text":"現在職場霸凌 一年內"},{"start":4220.31,"end":4247.762,"text":"提出來是有效的期限換句話說如果今天2024年8月6號你說某個同仁對你霸凌然後他發生在去年2023年7月底很抱歉你已經過了一年沒有提出來還有我剛剛說要連續為之所以你需要舉證出來怎麼個連續那這裡大家一定會有一個疑問那很嚴重的還要連續嗎"},{"start":4249.723,"end":4261.454,"text":"譬如說他這樣子性的類型好了 侵害人 侵害我這樣就一次還要連續為之嗎很嚴重的提出來當然比較 審查委員就會去酌量案情"},{"start":4264.517,"end":4286.63,"text":"但大部分如果那種什麼你罵我我罵你這種然後拿出來截圖來這種比較不是我剛剛說身體上的攻擊像剛剛的刺傷傷害或者是性上的暴力不是這麼嚴重的大部分都要連續為之我們來看一下怎麼樣知道你用的語言有沒有謾罵、詆毀、藐視、嘲笑"},{"start":4289.502,"end":4298.349,"text":"比如說 哈 你開這種車 這個牌子很爛有沒有嘲笑 有 這有嚴重到職場霸凌嗎好"},{"start":4302.389,"end":4324.766,"text":"怎麼樣可以去舉證說你受到了職場霸凌而且是心理跟語言上的你就要把那個事證好好的可以說清楚是謾罵、詆毀、藐視跟嘲笑所以如果一個人在對別人說話的時候我不知道大家有沒有最近看到那個我沒有放上來不過那個是記者寫的我們台灣的記者去蒐集了台灣的職場霸凌"},{"start":4330.506,"end":4354.718,"text":"然後罵的字演然後去討論最後成案的時候每個字值多少錢這樣大家最常聽到的那個我們台灣那個就是我們的大家常常說那是台灣的彰化一個字發語詞報紙上的記者就去把它採訪起來大部分的案件一個字的發語詞其實最後判無罪"},{"start":4355.498,"end":4372.636,"text":"就是沒有被發錢可是如果是罵別人魯蛇這兩個字可能就值錢了我說的不是哪個案件 而是說記者上的統計有記者去統計在法院申訴的五入的案件裡面哪個章字值多少錢"},{"start":4376.277,"end":4384.931,"text":"如果說罵一個人你是豬頭 罵一個人你腦殘這種言下之意有侮辱 然後有藐視 有謾罵"},{"start":4387.969,"end":4413.455,"text":"所以這種話如果是你講習慣你就要更正自己講話對事不要對人這些話有對到人比如說你腦殘前一陣子有日本一個主管他的新聞也被報導出來他對底下的同仁有一個很明顯的職場霸凌他的案子很標準是語言上的職場霸凌他對男性同仁說"},{"start":4415.285,"end":4426.033,"text":"你今天有帶腦子來上班嗎?你的腦子只有拿來戴帽子而已你的腦子根本只有鴿子腦"},{"start":4432.197,"end":4455.031,"text":"這三句話連起來 連續為之這三句話也就在有侮辱跟嘲笑他對女生 這個主管真的是被告得很慘了因為他真的是對同仁有語言上的霸凌他對男生罵的是你的頭是拿來戴帽子用的他對女生的職場霸凌這是寫在新聞上的他的女同事去請假去整形"},{"start":4456.257,"end":4477.634,"text":"她說我等著看你挺著很大的胸部回來這句話就是職場霸凌了一個人想怎麼整形那就是他的自由可是你又要對他說他會挺著大的幾號的那種尺寸的胸部回來這樣就有一種藐視又有詆毀還有嘲弄的味道"},{"start":4478.414,"end":4498.501,"text":"所以在這裡為什麼語言跟心理上的霸凌這麼難界定因為用字遣詞每個人的差異很大但是回到公版上面來看你用的字眼有沒有對人還是純粹是對事比如說我這件事情跟你講很多遍了"},{"start":4499.485,"end":4528.543,"text":"你就是沒有改像這樣就是對事你說你到底有沒有在聽啊虧你還是頂大畢業的這樣就對人了所以如果說主管每次罵一句話員工都說這叫職場霸凌那誰要來當主管啊對嗎所以各位要記得不是主管很大聲講話就是職場霸凌不是主管就著這件事情管理約束管教指正"},{"start":4529.92,"end":4534.089,"text":"這樣就叫做職場霸凌那要怎麼樣才叫做職場霸凌"},{"start":4535.097,"end":4563.05,"text":"你要回來看這句話裡面有沒有藐視 謾罵 詆毀 嘲笑這種侮辱跟歧視所以定在法規上面不管你用的是勞基法還是我們用的行政院的公務員員的版本侮辱跟歧視性的語言這幾個字都是放在法規的定義裡的所有的委員一開會的時候都是先把事證找出來先來問申訴人說哪個字你覺得有"},{"start":4565.434,"end":4566.016,"text":"藐視、歧視跟侮辱"},{"start":4570.089,"end":4599.154,"text":"像你是真的是差大畢業的嗎這句話如果說一次當然他沒有很嚴重但屢犯屢屢為之連續這個同仁如果可以舉證出來他心理上受到怎樣的傷害跟侵犯侵犯跟損害這種東西很主觀所以他需要申訴的人去提證去舉證他受到的傷害是如何大家可以想像得到"},{"start":4601.475,"end":4610.08,"text":"大家可以想像得到這樣的狀況他需要很多精神科醫師跟心理師來幫忙他評估他自己也要需要舉證不是一張"},{"start":4611.807,"end":4637.454,"text":"證明看過精神科醫師就說他的精神受到損害了所以他必須要去陳述他是怎樣的受到損害的程度的換作是我我早就去跳樓了這種話裡面就有一種嘲弄嘲笑的意思所以大家可以想像得到在用字遣詞裡面如果你常常說你可以檢視一下自己這個話是對事還是對人"},{"start":4639.395,"end":4664.449,"text":"好 那遇到了職場霸凌 我們應該要怎麼來做怎麼處理比較好我剛剛說 如果說 罵一個人工作上怎樣怎樣做不好這樣就是職場霸凌 我想全世界很多人都不要幹主管了這樣主管很為難 主管也沒有人要做所以一個工作沒有做好 被老闆叫去罵 被主管叫去罵這個是職場的管理 還是職場霸凌"},{"start":4665.109,"end":4681.336,"text":"我覺得一件事情當然有不同的立場可是很重要的是你在公眾公開的面前罵一個人指責一個人還是你把他私下找來指證他各位主管這對你來說就有很大的差別"},{"start":4683.048,"end":4696.439,"text":"當然要維護一個人的自尊尊嚴盡可能的是不要在公開的場合上面我遇過一個最不OK的主管他的例子真的非常不好他在公開的場合"},{"start":4699.681,"end":4726.831,"text":"他的行為你這樣聽的時候好像沒有很嚴重比如說我講簡單一點不要暴露他們家太多隱私這個主管在一個會議這個會議要解散了下一場會議就是要來辦招募就是很多人來應徵了其中有一個同仁要離開了他就開上一場會議的人這個主管就把下一場要應徵的人的資料打出來第一個有沒有洩露個資"},{"start":4728.564,"end":4740.907,"text":"有 洩露了個資的第二個 這個主管說吼 大家看吶 這個就是那個誰的家人 要來應徵我們這個工作啊條件這麼壞又再來 完蛋了一 洩露個資 這個話有沒有罵張智沒有 有沒有侮辱 有嘲弄這個條件這樣又再來 應徵我們的工作"},{"start":4760.642,"end":4774.796,"text":"這個字真的沒有帶一個張字也沒有帶一個國罵 都沒有但是他嘲弄了你們家的誰誰誰要來應徵我們這個工作丟 怕這麼壞的 大家看 大家來看喔 大家來看"},{"start":4775.99,"end":4779.733,"text":"這個行為涉及到當事人的動機跟強度跟頻率所以為什麼霸凌案很不容易定案"},{"start":4802.236,"end":4821.234,"text":"公說公有理 婆說婆有理一定要找外面的委員公正一點跟你們沒有什麼任何關係的來做討論跟來做採訪訪問當你又告訴一個不相干的不是招募的 不是要面試的人說你們來看這個履歷這個動機就不純正"},{"start":4827.32,"end":4843.238,"text":"這個動機真的就有嘲弄別人我剛說那個定義侮辱嘲笑藐視不用帶一個很髒的髒字就可以嘲笑別人這個行為的動機很清楚了"},{"start":4844.679,"end":4873.132,"text":"當然我作為訪談員還是要問一下說為什麼你要講這句話還有為什麼你撥給這麼多人看那個人的個資還有這些人還沒有散去他不是下一場要面談的人我舉這個例子是要告訴大家霸凌最重要的是要去訪談背後這個人做這件行為這個主管他說他在做管理苦口婆心的指正這個同仁大部分的委員都是會挺這樣的主管的"},{"start":4873.692,"end":4892.138,"text":"因為你就是要把事管好 把人帶好可是有很多主管只有顧著把事情處理好忽略了對人的照顧或對人的尊嚴所以我們覺得當主管不能只有顧住事情一定要顧到人所以我說大部分的申訴案"},{"start":4893.138,"end":4908.245,"text":"很可惜都是因為衝突跟摩擦如果有機會停下來多一點點溝通就不會演變得這麼難看了就不會大家相處不下去所以我要說職場霸凌尤其是主管的案主管的權限"},{"start":4909.486,"end":4935.985,"text":"大部分員工申訴主管案件的時候我們都要回來問這個主管你這樣做的時候用字遣詞如何還有動機再來就是那個行為的強度像我剛剛說那個抱抱抱女生那個強度太強了你說給我個Give me five握個手然後Give me five拍一下手這大家還可以接受社會通則一下可以接受熊抱"},{"start":4937.026,"end":4964.316,"text":"拍背更不要說摸背這是不能接受的而且大家不要只有以為男性主管性騷擾女生一樣啊我有好多案件是女性主管跟男性同仁男性同仁申訴他被女性的主管性騷擾看他的表情都有點偷偷笑偷笑其實男生被性騷擾更辛苦"},{"start":4966.038,"end":4981.324,"text":"女生被性騷擾大家都很知道怎麼同理他說真的想起來就很噁心對不對覺得很難覺得很髒覺得很噁心覺得很討厭你只要這樣說就可以同理到這個女生說對啊好噁喔這樣欸知道嗎男生被性騷擾"},{"start":4983.168,"end":4998.088,"text":"旁邊的男生都會跟他說 你冒到了要不然就會說 你也沒有少塊肉啊而且搞不好你還占了便宜 大家知道嗎男生發生這樣的事的時候 他也覺得很沒民主因為會被人家一直說一直說"},{"start":4999.409,"end":5020.554,"text":"還有別人會來調侃他說有沒有撞到這種開玩笑的話其實都是二次傷害所以其實我們要很公平的來對待不同的性別所以男生被性騷擾其實也很難受的而且他也不想要被別人白摸一把的各位不要把男生都想成很喜歡被別人摸一把被別人摸一把他也是有困擾的"},{"start":5021.834,"end":5042.919,"text":"所以主管的權限還是在做職場霸凌我覺得這個主管就要自己純正的知道自己的動機管理的時候對事然後不要對人所以我常常會提醒主管們就是我們有時候在管理事情的時候也稍微關照一下人還有最重要的是不要在公開的面前指正或責罵"},{"start":5044.179,"end":5067.97,"text":"我覺得要老闆遇到一些同仁沒做好你不要開罵真的是要修養可是我覺得有一點是很重要就是你可以顧住別人的自尊所以你在私下講單獨一兩個人講如果你說你跟他講都沒有證據他都講不聽一定要有旁邊的人佐證你沒有霸凌他你再找一個人在旁邊也可以但不要公開很多人因為他是一個非常非常容易讓他"},{"start":5069.27,"end":5073.233,"text":"我們來看一下我覺得市民地方法院這個判決很重要我常常在不同單位的時候"},{"start":5092.327,"end":5118.964,"text":"都會拿這個判決來引述他這個判決哪裡寫得很好就是職場上的生活除了工作內容之外其實根本職場上就是互相溝通的過程我們在職場上人跟人相處本來就有志同道合本來也就有話不投機這種狀況所以並不是同事之間有摩擦 有衝突 有不愉快 有疏遠對方這樣就叫職場霸凌了"},{"start":5120.424,"end":5120.624,"text":"連續且積極的行為"},{"start":5144.008,"end":5170.244,"text":"你看喔 要連續做而且是積極所以你才可以去舉證說這個人這樣的行為是充分的要為了要霸凌我好 那他如果不是連續的也不是積極的對你這樣做好 那你就要去溝通說 主管你這樣我會覺得很難堪啊不要在這麼多人面前講我或者是主管請你公文拿給我放我桌上都好不要用丟的 不要用摔的好不好"},{"start":5171.385,"end":5187.632,"text":"所以這種你可以去溝通出來讓他不要這樣做就可以少了一件霸凌的事件了如果一個主管的動作摔丟公文出去他伴隨著說"},{"start":5188.832,"end":5210.542,"text":"怎麼這樣啊 叫你改都不改他就是情緒失控那他如果是丟公文說 寫這什麼東西啊來這麼多年還沒寫這樣 這樣叫做侮辱了不知道大家懂我的意思嗎你這樣摔一個公文出去 這個主管是很生氣沒辦法控制自己的情緒 然後把公文摔出去跟他摔出去的時候說"},{"start":5212.284,"end":5221.056,"text":"來這裡多少年了 寫這種案子 笑死人了 他有嘲笑你這樣的兩個動作摔公文 背後的目的 背後的動機是不一樣的"},{"start":5222.392,"end":5241.625,"text":"所以霸凌案非常重要的是要去檢視這個人做這個行為的時候的目的這樣我不知道上次有沒有看到一個新聞就是一個這也是公務單位所以有時候很難不好沒辦法一處理一發生事情就叫員工走路兩個員工吵架"},{"start":5244.107,"end":5257.618,"text":"這個A員工跟B員工吵架衝突起來A員工每次就拿死老鼠丟到B員工旁邊那個垃圾桶附近故意往他的垃圾桶旁邊的垃圾桶丟有沒有故意"},{"start":5258.829,"end":5283.348,"text":"所以牠的目的就在歧視牠 討厭牠那牠丟很多次 有時候丟到牠的桌上有時候丟到牠的身邊 有時候丟到牠的位置旁邊丟死老鼠這已經會造成我們環境上的衛生了先不討論這個環境的衛生光是A丟死老鼠到B的位置上面附近這個行為就構成了要敵視牠 歧視牠 討厭牠為目的了"},{"start":5286.09,"end":5303.548,"text":"所以像這樣就是一個職場上面造成一個人沒辦法好好的來上班所以每一個人都有責任去維護一個友善的職場所以有些單位的職場霸凌 申訴人不限不限被申訴的"},{"start":5304.827,"end":5328.889,"text":"被霸凌的跟霸凌人不限有些單位旁邊的人看不過去也可以來填表格填申訴我們雖然勞基法跟行政院的這個定義是一樣的但每一個單位自己的那個霸凌辦法跟流程還是稍微有一些各機關的不同比如說有些機關一個同仁申請霸凌兩個月內要結案"},{"start":5330.319,"end":5330.559,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5348.667,"end":5361.463,"text":"但是那個定義上絕對是一樣的霸凌的目的就是你為了敵視對方 歧視對方 討厭對方連續跟積極所為所以像我剛剛說的這個新聞上寫丟老鼠這件事情就是積極所為啊"},{"start":5363.244,"end":5381.638,"text":"有會議你故意忽略不通知他來這個可能是消極的你知道他落高了你沒有通知他是消極的你每次都要把寮鼠丟得這麼準丟到他座位旁邊這真的是積極所為所以連續積極的行為去傷害到對方的人格民意跟健康權"},{"start":5382.879,"end":5406.356,"text":"好 超過我們一般社會通認可以容許的範圍了所以霸凌有一個好重要的定義霸凌的行為的樣態你要去看他的樣態是哪一種就像我剛剛說的身體 心理 語言性的再來次數跟頻率受害的人數還有受害的權利他被影響到的權利影響的程度如何"},{"start":5407.489,"end":5428.144,"text":"好 比如說有一些影響比較微攻擊一點比如說 什麼叫微攻擊哇 你看前面那個開車開這麼爛 可能是女的開的這個叫做微攻擊覺得女生比較不會開車 微攻擊這是一個對性別的刻板印象但這樣可能沒有到嚴重受害的程度"},{"start":5429.165,"end":5448.774,"text":"但是如果你說 你看他差大畢業來這裡做這麼多年連這個都不會你連續的去到處宣傳這個同仁這樣連這個都不會這就是積極的在破壞他的名譽那你要做的應該是輔導他 協助他而不是一直去造謠說他的一個名譽受損的狀況這樣"},{"start":5450.575,"end":5468.54,"text":"所以申訴案行為人的目的跟動機這些是不是我們社會通念可以容許的這才是每一個案委員在判的時候最真正在意的了好大家回歸到這場職場這個市民法院寫的這個通則職場的霸凌"},{"start":5469.784,"end":5487.374,"text":"持續性發聲 它是對人不是對事的職場的摩擦是什麼它可能偶發的 兩個人一言不合就爆出來了就衝起來了 偶發的最重要的是 你們怎麼吵都沒有關係因為是對事而不對人"},{"start":5488.454,"end":5502.799,"text":"所以在工作上可以跟大家吵來吵去對事不對人 這都沒有問題 吵完就算了吵完就找到溝通解決的方法了但職場霸凌是你損害的是這個人的人格 名譽 健康權"},{"start":5504.346,"end":5533.191,"text":"好那看完這個定義我們就來看最後一種剛剛我們談了身體的暴力了談了語言跟心理的最後一種就是跟性有關的好跟性有關的要怎麼樣預防第一個尊重彼此的差異所以不要隨便開黃腔這樣尤其是你隨便開黃腔如果是有在LINE上面又有文圖證據了好不要"},{"start":5534.071,"end":5548.673,"text":"不要再幽默都不要用性或性別來開玩笑這是一個比較不會踩雷的地方就是你再幽默然後開很多其他的玩笑都沒有關係但不要開黃色的玩笑不要以性或性別為話題"},{"start":5550.416,"end":5568.494,"text":"親如夫妻,情人,你也都要你情我願不要過度追求不要用權力勒索別人不要以為員工都很崇拜我們不要以為下屬都很喜歡我們"},{"start":5569.315,"end":5594.354,"text":"好 那如果有人對你性騷擾怎麼辦你可以跟他說 開玩笑說欸 不要這樣啦 我們沒有這麼熟這樣你也可以正經地說 欸 我不習慣這樣開玩笑所以呢 當有人跟你開玩笑的時候你可以跟他說 這樣不好笑或者你要說一個不字 這樣不好笑或者請你不要再說了所以我認為男生跟女生都應該要在覺得不舒服的時候先告訴對方"},{"start":5595.895,"end":5621.19,"text":"這樣才可以讓溝通變清楚如果你不告訴對方對方以為像我剛舉例那個主管他以為他這樣雄抱員工員工也很開心他認為他在美國就是這樣他回來之後啊他不知道這個被他雄抱的這個女生其實一直在抖抖的是怕自己失業或者回家的時候又不敢跟家人先生說其實心裡就很糾結好 所以我們不要成為性騷擾的行為人好"},{"start":5622.891,"end":5638.111,"text":"最後我們來談談怎麼樣預防我覺得第一個很重要是我們既然要有一個友善的職場環境我認為主管跟下屬同樣都有責任一起來讓我們的環境比較能夠溝通一點"},{"start":5639.712,"end":5658.013,"text":"彼此都有責任這份責任不完全都在主管身上員工也得去告訴主管說你這樣說 我覺得很抱歉你不要當眾大家在當眾面前講我員工也要適時的去提出來跟你的主管說主管更要以身作則然後要來化解衝突"},{"start":5658.914,"end":5687.07,"text":"好那跟大家分享幾個比較我覺得重要的職場溝通的方法第一個方法就是我覺得大家常常聽到就是在職場裡面要有同理心我覺得說起來很容易其實不用我今天來分享大家也知道說在職場上工作的時候要有同理心的講話方式好那我認為同理心我們大家都有這個概念只是不好講不知道怎麼表達我通常都用一個很簡潔的方式表達"},{"start":5688.476,"end":5688.516,"text":"主席"},{"start":5707.609,"end":5707.629,"text":"為什麼這樣?"},{"start":5731.294,"end":5754.877,"text":"因為你同理他說說你一定很難受你最近專案很多一定很累我知道你調過來還不太適應你在關心一個人跟讚美一個人的時候用你開頭這樣其實對方聽起來是溫暖的是暖心的如果很多人問我說曾老師做30年的心理師講話跟別人有什麼不一樣我說有"},{"start":5755.918,"end":5771.611,"text":"當我的同仁一說話或者來跟我談話的員工一講話的時候我的第一句話會先忍住不要說我想說的也就是忍住先不要指教不要建議那要說什麼?把對方的心情先說一下"},{"start":5773.553,"end":5777.296,"text":"童禮心童禮心和讚美之外 主管或同仁講話的時候都不要用你開頭了"},{"start":5796.631,"end":5816.606,"text":"你怎麼寫成這樣你到底記不記得上次開會開什麼你怎麼講了兩遍還不會這些指證的話批評指責的時候或者要給意見的時候通通不適合用你開頭心理學把這個叫做擬訊息擬訊息容易變指責你不會"},{"start":5819.881,"end":5847.543,"text":"不是跟你講很多次了嗎阿你昨天有來上班嗎你上次有開會嗎阿你有聽到決議嗎阿你到底有沒有簽過文阿每一個都用你開頭來說話就變指責了所以我剛剛說除了關心之外讚美之外講話的時候你都留意一下用我來講話你們聽聽看喔我用我訊息講話跟你訊息相反我被錄下來多少句都不會有問題你們聽聽看"},{"start":5850.441,"end":5857.807,"text":"我感覺很為難因為你說這個民眾的訴求要這樣 廠商要方便我希望你整理一下這個廠商提出什麼困難來"},{"start":5859.087,"end":5885.194,"text":"好 你可以這樣說我感覺很不高興因為我認為上次開會那個決議都已經很清楚了我希望你現在去把卷宗會議記錄調出來看就照著上面的主管的決議做好 換句話說各位主管你要指令給你的同仁的時候用我開頭來說你被錄下來也都非常的OK我覺得很緊張"},{"start":5887.114,"end":5891.902,"text":"老闆要看到這份資料現在還沒有出來我希望你下班前趕快趕給我"},{"start":5893.677,"end":5917.337,"text":"好 當你在說話的時候用我開頭來說你完全沒有一根手指頭指到對方好 我用生活上的例子你們聽聽看喔好 前幾天我跟我先生說當我不小心說完你訊息的時候就趕快煞車然後改回我訊息我本來整套的你訊息是這樣蛤 你都沒有去倒垃圾你沒有聞到那個垃圾的臭味嗎"},{"start":5917.978,"end":5924.133,"text":"你不知道小翔會跑出來嗎?你不知道我這禮拜很忙嗎?阿你不會先倒一下垃圾喔?急跟你了"},{"start":5925.549,"end":5954.009,"text":"五個你了這樣的溝通說話就把對方指了五遍了對方在心裡面聽一遍 聽兩遍 聽三遍火就會開始大了就會開始defense 心理防衛了改成我來說我好擔心有小強跑出來我現在最近好忙我回到家的時候都趕不到垃圾車了老公我希望跟你對一下行程看看我們誰比較早到家看看誰可以先去倒一下垃圾"},{"start":5955.236,"end":5971.313,"text":"我用我講話的時候都沒有一根手指頭比到對方這個叫做我訊息我認為我們在職場上跟在生活上都要改變這種說話的習慣你比較不會被同仁錄下來這個話你也覺得好緊張你不知道"},{"start":5975.665,"end":5991.599,"text":"你都來多久了你上次開會沒在聽嗎你看你指責他三次你你你了這叫做擬訊息擬訊息一定會帶來指責批評嘲弄的所以各位講話的時候要盡可能改成"},{"start":5992.74,"end":6018.101,"text":"我覺得 我認為 我想的是我要你怎麼做 我期待你怎麼做好 所以你充分的表達你的期待你是主管 你更應該這樣說你是同仁也可以這樣說主管 我覺得很為難因為我現在手上有個案子我希望你可不可以喬一下其他人可以先接不是我不接 我是希望可以時間不要撞在一起我希望你可以通盤考量一下我現在手上的業務量"},{"start":6019.887,"end":6037.383,"text":"用我來說就有溝通的空間用你你你來說不小心指責嚴重還變嘲笑而且你怎麼知道這句話他聽的心裡是嘲笑每一個人成長的經驗都不一樣所以有些人對這句話可能感覺很過敏"},{"start":6039.797,"end":6061.156,"text":"他就會有些主觀的感覺出來了所以第二個跟大家分享的是我訊息如果我們可以在職場上面多去真誠的表達你的話就比較可以減少衝突大家聽聽看這個例子我的企業的客戶很常有這種例子我就把他們改編成這樣一個主管說我早就知道你做不到了"},{"start":6068.284,"end":6079.516,"text":"怎麼改?用同理心改我再想你沒做出KPI業績你壓力也很大你看這樣多有同理心你說我哪來的心情去同理他啊改成我訊息"},{"start":6080.877,"end":6108.589,"text":"我也很擔心這個業績做出來會有難度我希望你困難要提出來跟我討論一下這樣就是我的訊息換句話說大家有沒有發現你有快樂安慰照顧同仁的時候請用同理心沒有這個情緒跟能量安慰他同理心不要勉強講出來的話也是虛的你就用我訊息說我很怕這個做出來會來不及我很怕會有困難你先把困難跟情況提出來告訴我"},{"start":6110.129,"end":6111.63,"text":"你可能有你的想法才會這樣做說給我聽好嗎"},{"start":6129.636,"end":6130.296,"text":"主席"},{"start":6150.342,"end":6167.961,"text":"提出你的期待跟要求來那如果你用你你你來說啊你就做不到了我就知道了你沒辦法啦這樣其實馬上就變成你訊息你訊息非常容易帶來嘲笑的感覺而且有些事情真的是說者無意"},{"start":6169.242,"end":6171.425,"text":"聽者有心第三種"},{"start":6188.954,"end":6216.119,"text":"第二種就是同理心加上我訊息第三種就是特別是主管我們指證別人的時候要說客觀不要用主觀的話來指證什麼叫客觀你這個月的報表跟上個月的這個財務的報表上面的數字都有錯請你快速地改起來這樣叫做客觀你怎麼這麼不出心啊你到底有沒有長眼啊你每次交上來的東西都一定有錯"},{"start":6217.406,"end":6236.545,"text":"每次一定有錯 這個就不科學所以你說你每次都有錯這樣的主管說話詮釋又主觀你說你這次交上來報表裡面有幾個錯字請你改這樣叫做客觀而且符合事實"},{"start":6237.666,"end":6257.943,"text":"一個主管說話的時候太常用主觀跟詮釋來說話必定就流於衝突很容易起衝突你說話是客觀那就不會對方也賴不掉同仁也不能說你錯舉例來說我暑假如果跟我的孩子說暑假每天都睡這麼晚哪個字"},{"start":6262.13,"end":6288.834,"text":"每天我小孩就會說哪有昨天起來打電動就很早所以當你說每次都怎樣這種就是偏於主觀了你說這禮拜有三天你都睡到十點才起來這樣就是客觀所以作為主管在指證你的同仁的時候你的表達方式要客觀客觀就不會有人身攻擊客觀就會對事不會對人"},{"start":6290.891,"end":6304.48,"text":"當你越有情緒的時候各位主管提醒自己你更要說話的時候客觀說話那如果自己有情緒了又很多你你你你信息就非常容易跟同仁起衝突了"},{"start":6305.48,"end":6332.825,"text":"這是第三個第四個就是我剛剛說的我們說話的時候不要有微攻擊在國外有精神科醫師說有時候其實我們意識層面好像沒有去攻擊別人但那個潛意識底下不自覺的會微攻擊所以微攻擊的定義就是我們在生活當中工作當中有意識無意識的去表現出我們的偏見來怎麼樣的偏見比如說"},{"start":6333.965,"end":6355.008,"text":"好前面那個開車技術開這麼爛就是一個女的這樣就是對性別對女性有攻擊一個男的你就要扛起家的責任這也是對男性的攻擊你是男生不要哭這也是一種對男性的刻板印象你當媽媽的還穿成這樣又不是正妹"},{"start":6357.517,"end":6381.648,"text":"這種說話方式就對年紀有攻擊一個人愛怎麼穿只要沒有違反善良風俗其實都是OK的但是如果我們用這樣的方式有點為攻擊的話就會不好了比如說你看這個同事每次這樣悶悶的鐵定就有憂鬱症這也是對人的情緒有為攻擊了所以我們人在說話的時候如果可以多一份同理"},{"start":6382.248,"end":6410.323,"text":"多一份尊重然後不要沒有意識的有語言上的偏見或貶低自然而然我們就比較不會跟霸凌這件事扯上關係了最後跟大家分享的其實就是在工作當中我們越來其實都是事情越來越多環境的變化也都越來越大說穿了其實我們的壓力大家都會越來越多越來越大 這很正常但最重要的是怎麼樣讓你的壓力變成優壓"},{"start":6411.984,"end":6437.966,"text":"可以釋放出你的潛能來然後讓你更多學習像我們現在在學科技 學3C都是因為被逼的不得不學你有沒有發現你現在也學了很會用很多不同的視訊軟體在工作所以當我們 像我自己到空中大學上課要學自己剪片 自己錄影片然後自己直播 自己剪然後用很多不同的軟體這也是釋放潛能 就發揮潛能"},{"start":6441.008,"end":6446.98,"text":"所以我覺得當我們壓力大的時候第一個在跟同仁互動說話的時候不要勒索別人"},{"start":6448.723,"end":6472.599,"text":"什麼叫情緒勒索這幾年很流行就是不要讓同仁講話的時候不要你講話去酸對方或者不要說話的時候讓對方感覺到他很笨很自責所以你直接指證他說這裡有錯情感這裡可能不要這樣寫但不要用酸的方式用酸的方式容易造成一個人自己覺得瞧不起自己他的受辱感就會來了"},{"start":6473.579,"end":6474.4,"text":"不要太完美神經質的完美不能忍耐"},{"start":6493.098,"end":6518.672,"text":"一點點錯不能忍耐有一些東西跟自己想的不一樣完全沒有天花板達到的標準好還要更好這樣叫做神經質的完美主義還有當我們有時候遇到一些負向的念頭的時候可以轉念轉化一下念頭培養一個正向的眼光例如像羅斯福不是遇到小偷嗎他說 哎呀 幸好他偷的是我部分的財產不是我全部的財產"},{"start":6519.692,"end":6546.914,"text":"幸好他來偷的是東西沒有傷害到我的身體幸好當小偷的人是他不是我所以有時候我們人需要這樣轉個念頭然後正向的思考就像大家看到一杯水說幸好還有半杯水一樣一個人如果可以轉向正向的念頭思考我們人就比較有彈性一點然後比較不會這麼執著當陷入在負向思考的時候就叫自己停下來中斷思考然後不要再想了這樣"},{"start":6548.074,"end":6572.408,"text":"工作上都要幫自己找到一個比較好用的放鬆方法比如說冥想、肌肉放鬆、正念、深呼吸短短的、小小的、一點點的時間就可以讓自己放鬆一下下我上次在那個TED大家看那個TED的節目我看到一個Kelly博士的演講非常喜歡他有一個實驗我覺得超讚的他是心理健康學家"},{"start":6573.291,"end":6600.918,"text":"他說他前面幾年 三十年都在研究人有壓力就百分之八十會生病然後人有壓力的時候疾病就會來所以人應該要避免壓力他最近做了一個研究他說人在有壓力的時候他發現一件重要的事如果人在有壓力的時候轉個念頭說我要來挑戰看看我要試試看這件事情我想要挑戰學習一下我想要拚拚看"},{"start":6602.518,"end":6614.674,"text":"他發現人在轉念的時候他就把人做實驗發現人在轉念的時候血管 人的血管會從收縮本來有壓力緊張變成放鬆"},{"start":6617.97,"end":6642.455,"text":"他這個實驗做了很久他發現原來人在轉念頭的時候血管竟然會從收縮改成放鬆開來換句話說你不要等八小時一天下工的時候回到家的時候才說倒在沙發上才說終於輕鬆了各位你這樣的血管已經壓縮了八小時了"},{"start":6643.135,"end":6659.152,"text":"所以在面對一件事情的時候你轉個念頭說好我來調整看看我來溝通看看我來找資源看看可以怎麼做Kelly博士說原來在人放鬆轉積極正面的念頭的時候血管會放鬆一些"},{"start":6660.56,"end":6683.503,"text":"一整天血管都收縮你就知道對你的身體是多吃力的事情照養、送血液、然後流通大家有興趣可以到Google上面去搜尋TED的節目這個博士叫做Kelly Kelly博士做的這個研究第一個重要的發現就是轉個念頭既然你的血管會不一樣收縮改成放鬆"},{"start":6684.364,"end":6712.281,"text":"所以你不用馬上去做個運動啊 跑步啊 紓壓 刷卡 國旅卡然後你就可以轉個念頭 就放鬆血液的收縮下 放鬆下來了第二個 他說找人講一講找人講一講 Kelly博士說 原來我們的腦下腺體會分泌一個催產素荷爾蒙催產素大家第一個想到說 我有沒有要生小孩 分泌這個要幹嘛催產素荷爾蒙有一個非常可愛的名字 叫做抱抱荷爾蒙"},{"start":6713.041,"end":6729.891,"text":"他會啟動你的抗壓機制催產素分泌的時候會讓你想去找一個人談一談聊一聊然後你的催產素就會分泌得更多催產素能幹嘛會修補我們心臟接收器附近的壞掉的細胞"},{"start":6730.811,"end":6759.67,"text":"推產素可以修補消炎它有消炎功能可以修補心臟旁邊這些危損破壞危損的小細胞所以各位除了放鬆的方法之外除了有效的管理你的時間排開不必要做的事排好優先順序擬定行程我自己也非常喜歡用番茄石中法就是25分鐘集中腦力專注專注做完之後放鬆5分鐘"},{"start":6760.911,"end":6781.771,"text":"放鬆不是滑手機喔 就是不要用腦 不要用腦 用想的好 就放鬆這樣好 看一下遠方啊 做深呼吸 這才叫做真正放鬆滑手機 大腦還在想 還在運作就像有些人半夜失眠起來我都會跟我的個案說 不要看時鐘 把時鐘轉走為什麼 半夜4點 3點半看到時鐘蛤 3點半"},{"start":6785.475,"end":6812.916,"text":"感官記憶3點半還送到感官算了一下數學離6點半起床已經沒多少小時你看了一下感官還算了數學還想了一下煩惱的事你根本就不用睡因為你大腦已經開工了交感神經已經起來值班了這個時間本來是副交感神經應該運作的結果你睡覺半夜醒來一看時鐘結果全醒"},{"start":6814.417,"end":6833.044,"text":"眼睛也醒還把訊息送到中樞神經理解還算了數學扣了一下算一下剩幾小時所以這樣根本就不用睡了所以最好的方式其實就是讓自己可以養成一個好習慣睡前的時候不要再想煩惱的事不要反除思考"},{"start":6834.625,"end":6853.736,"text":"養成有效的管理時間能夠找到一個人聊一聊對你來說就是有找到支持系統維持健康的、好的運動對身心都有幫助這些方法都可以幫助我們壓力調適我們不是只有職場上跟別人溝通好一點就好了"},{"start":6854.196,"end":6854.796,"text":"提供員工專業諮商服務"},{"start":6877.767,"end":6901.925,"text":"比較完整的就是心理上的諮商包括精神科的醫療有些公司像民間公司他們心理員工諮詢還包括心理師之外還包括律師還包括會計師在公部門的話有時候比較單一的諮詢就是心理的諮詢那大家機構內也有一些勞動部的或者是有一些資源也可以問問人事事這是"},{"start":6903.767,"end":6917.44,"text":"不只是大家要多用資源也希望大家在職場當中打造一個職場的友善的環境不只是為你自己也為所有的同事那大家就可以比較在一個健康而友善的環境裡頭工作"},{"start":6919.182,"end":6934.379,"text":"今天非常高興有這個機會來跟大家多分享這樣的概念希望我們都是不是有事的時候才遇到如果有一些需要我售後服務的大家可以寫email問我你可以說我們在立法院這個單位遇到的"},{"start":6936.081,"end":6936.281,"text":"謝謝大家的專注 謝謝"},{"start":6989.413,"end":6999.96,"text":"謝謝大家的參與那如果有問題的話都可以留下來跟教授這邊請教那大家各位長官同仁離開前可以幫我們掃描牆壁上的QR Code填寫問卷謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-08-06T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"打造友善職場，預防職場霸凌（事由：打造友善職場，預防職場霸凌）","委員發言時間":"13:59:59 - 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就是正式集會對啊 我要跟他講他應該會有一個雲端然後上面就會有你們的照片感謝所以你要不要直接抖這樣一下他看到我頭髮就翹起來壓不下去沒有沒有你旁邊這位會幫你看一下沒救了那今天你放棄了不會不會"},{"start":541.589,"end":563.065,"text":"你會覺得應該場合上輕鬆嗎?因為這是我們職員對這些頂入的興趣求之若渴因為立法院法治局應該也都是公務員法治的一個口徑所以那法律規則會比較強嗎?會不少 可能吧因為他們也會要幫忙研究一些委員會請他們幫忙有時候啊有時候"},{"start":567.123,"end":579.211,"text":"這顏色是不是怪怪的這看了很不舒服很奇異可是這樣掌握也不太像不太像不會啊 就還是不知道是你啊應該不是茂名頂級我發現說有個男的"},{"start":591.334,"end":610.371,"text":"欸?所以我是上午10分鐘休息10分鐘﹖然後再把剩下的上午10分鐘﹖或是你都不休息沒關係﹖我覺得休息這樣比較好﹖或是你要上一個半小時休息﹖上一個半小時休息﹖大家就想要休息半小時﹖好 那你就休息﹖那你就可以跟大家說﹖嗯好﹖自由配方﹖感謝﹖希望他們沒有人跑掉﹖"},{"start":628.41,"end":630.655,"text":"我忘了我完全忘了太誠實了我自己"},{"start":644.414,"end":647.759,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":692.141,"end":694.563,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":718.091,"end":733.964,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":760.265,"end":768.193,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":787.013,"end":794.617,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":817.404,"end":828.458,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":834.179,"end":837.162,"text":"謝謝你謝謝你今天要麻煩你了謝謝"},{"start":868.664,"end":873.829,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":895.709,"end":897.391,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":970.037,"end":975.823,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1009.67,"end":1010.11,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1041.168,"end":1042.109,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1072.85,"end":1074.233,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1107.196,"end":1109.018,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1141.263,"end":1141.903,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":1172.622,"end":1173.442,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1196.85,"end":1198.131,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1243.507,"end":1254.497,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":1280.325,"end":1281.246,"text":"自願回覆公積金"},{"start":1321.159,"end":1336.191,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1398.378,"end":1421.769,"text":"各位同仁大家午安非常感謝各位同仁來參加我們人事處辦理的休會的訓練課程那我們今天特別邀請元洪法律事務所的陳慶宏陳律師他來為我們講解那個消費者的權益保護跟一些消費糾紛的實務案例這是一堂非常實用的課程那現在我們就以熱烈的掌聲來歡迎陳律師"},{"start":1426.56,"end":1428.641,"text":"我們先代表秘書長致贈一份禮物給陳律師謝謝"},{"start":1451.442,"end":1472.474,"text":"各位長官同仁大家好我是陳慶紅律師我們今天要上的課程是破解消費糾紛的實用法律課說真的我第一次踏入立法院然後又來這邊講法律多少心動一點彈側畢竟這裡就是消保法它的產地我相信大家都是在立法院工作對於法規什麼都是比較熟悉的"},{"start":1473.214,"end":1496.703,"text":"那所以呢我今天來想該帶給大家一些不一樣的東西我呢會把這堂課程比較著重放在說這一堂這個消保法這個法律出了立法院之後它在實務上的運作甚至呢法院怎麼去詮釋怎麼去使用這個消保法以及我們消費者怎麼去使用它因為畢竟呢一個法例出來之後"},{"start":1497.543,"end":1510.557,"text":"結果司法機關有不一樣的見解甚至把他廢棄掉了這個大家都很常見嘛這最近大家也知道有這樣子的案例所以呢我們會把這件事情呢著重在司法機關或是實務上怎麼去使用這個法律"},{"start":1511.8,"end":1515.603,"text":"陳慶紅 法律學士 法律研究所 法律書手 主持律師這堂課我之前是在經濟部的講這本來是一個三小時的課程所以大家看講義有66頁"},{"start":1534.156,"end":1550.026,"text":"那因為其實本來是三小時的課程然後想說說成兩小時要刪掉很多東西但是又捨不得刪就希望想盡量把越來越多的東西帶給各位同仁那如果上不完可能會發生這件事情但我會盡量把我準備的內容都帶給各位好"},{"start":1551.178,"end":1580.212,"text":"那我的上課的風格比較輕鬆一點啦所以大家如果中間想要上廁所呢或是要休息一下什麼都是可以那我們會我們因為是兩個小時的課程嘛我們上午十分鐘呢會休息十分鐘然後之後就直接到我們四點半課程結束所以中間會有大家休息一下的時間那我會問大家一些問題那我問大家的問題呢其實都是預設大家不會或是不知道的問題所以大家可以踴躍的來回答一下"},{"start":1580.572,"end":1602.012,"text":"那如果你回答是正確的,代表你很棒那如果你回答的答案可能跟我們寫的答案比較不一樣那代表各位同仁來上這一堂課是有幫助的因為你本來的認知跟實際上在法律的適用可能有一些不一樣那你來這堂課,其實你有學到說真的有一些新的東西,然後可以改變你本來的想法"},{"start":1603.705,"end":1604.005,"text":"消費糾紛的基本規定"},{"start":1633.164,"end":1635.666,"text":"我們這堂課是要講消費者保護法大家知道消保法是民國幾年立法的嗎"},{"start":1658.34,"end":1682.076,"text":"大家想一下大家小時候不然我的小時候啦 對不對我們小時候有消保法嗎消保法沒有嗎 對不對大家知道消保法是哪一年立法的嗎猜猜看八十幾年沒有錯很棒 差一年而已"},{"start":1683.228,"end":1691.049,"text":"在座有30歲以下的嗎?大家不用舉手不要舉手我知道年齡是大家的秘密對不對大家不用特別舉手感謝這位同仁好"},{"start":1692.358,"end":1714.089,"text":"消保法是民國83年立法的所以他今年30歲所以大家呢如果是超過30歲以上的各位消保法都比各位年紀小那在我們可能例如說我現在我39歲嘛我要滿40了在我小時候的前9年台灣是沒有消保法存在的所以呢其實早期在消費者保護上有很大很大的問題"},{"start":1715.35,"end":1743.463,"text":"例如說這些企業經營者他們就會逼消費者簽一些不平等條款因為契約只要是白紙黑字簽的原則上我們都要遵守所以有時候我們就會去簽這些不平等條款再來這些企業會增加一些法律沒有的嚴苛限制然後會免除他們應付的責任還會吃定消費者的舉證困難所以這個是在消保法立法以前我們有這樣很嚴重的情況"},{"start":1744.73,"end":1768.328,"text":"所以消保法立法的主要目的就是要讓這些顯示公平的企業條款無效然後我們要擴大消費者保護的範圍強制規定企業應付的責任以及舉證責任要由企業負擔這些其實在消保法裡面都會找到就像我們有時候會有一個很常見的概念我們常常說"},{"start":1770.061,"end":1794.882,"text":"廣告打廣告的人要對廣告負責任對不對我們會聽到這個講法你廣告是什麼樣的內容你就應該提供相同的產品的品質對不對這個東西其實是規定在消保法裡面的所以呢如果不是在消保法裡面的廣告欸也許我們去回歸民法或什麼也許沒辦法試用就說我今天出來之前我有看到一個新聞就是有那個網紅跟藝人不是開手搖店嗎"},{"start":1795.763,"end":1801.867,"text":"然後說這個手搖是北海道鮮奶做成的結果是奶精加上奶粉調成的"},{"start":1808.959,"end":1835.919,"text":"那這個東西很顯然就是違反消保法對不對甚至我覺得這可能有詐欺罪的責任對不對他不是惡意欺騙消費者嗎那你把一個奶精或是奶粉調出來的東西說是北海道鮮乳對不對對於鮮乳的定義是什麼大家應該都懂嘛對不對那種薄酒乳我們都不能說是鮮乳了何況是奶粉調出來的東西所以呢像這種東西對消費者保障其實就是我們在消保法可以去落實的東西"},{"start":1838.615,"end":1861.864,"text":"我們大家都知道消保法消保法適用的兩個對象是企業跟個人其實我覺得立法者他們在選立法的字其實都是字句斟酌大家也都知道所以我們在講消保法的企業是指設計生產製造輸入經銷或提供服務的人好 問大家"},{"start":1863.064,"end":1874.535,"text":"今天假設 我就一台手機好了iPhoneiPhone的手機的製造商是蘋果那蘋果要不要對消費者負消保法責任?"},{"start":1878.254,"end":1906.62,"text":"大家覺得這是廢話嘛 對不對好我今天如果是蘋果的代理商像德宜嗎或是像Apple Store假設他們有台灣的代理商代理商如果今天一個蘋果手機我在代理商那邊買了蘋果手機壞了爆炸了代理商要負責任嗎要嗎我是要找代理商還是要找製造商代理商負責任嗎大家注意一下喔"},{"start":1908.339,"end":1936.206,"text":"輸入跟經銷商品的人也要負責喔所以代理商代理有三種模式阿這是另外的課程但是不外乎是什麼就是輸入跟經銷嘛對不對一樣的阿我今天如果單純是跑單幫的人例如說我從國外進口商品來台灣賣例如說我去買幾個LV的包包我是專門做代買專門從外面把產品帶進來的人我要不要負消保法的企業責任"},{"start":1937.694,"end":1955.632,"text":"要為什麼因為輸入好所以呢我們這邊有舉幾個例子好一個某甲在夜市擺地攤賣玩具他要不要負消保法的企業的責任答案說要嘛因為講義上面就已經有花圈了嘛對不對因為講義都把結果告訴給大家所以大家盡量不要看講義好"},{"start":1957.762,"end":1977.314,"text":"如果一個螞蟻他是種芒果的他呢其實只是一個小小的製銀商可是他呢在蝦皮啊在這些網站他去販售自己家的芒果他要不要負企業責任要嘛因為他是什麼他是製造商他是負責販售的人所以其實他要負消保法的相關的這些責任"},{"start":1978.882,"end":2001.169,"text":"好 再來自己開設網路商場販賣手工香皂的人需不需要如果他是長夜的 例如說他就拿這件事賣香皂當工作 他就是要再來 如果有一個同仁在立法院上班 他要購買一個新筆電所以他把舊的筆電我們去網拍賣掉 我要負消保法的責任嗎"},{"start":2004.895,"end":2020.985,"text":"大家注意喔我們企業的定義是指說設計生產製造輸入經銷或提供服務為營業者公務員可以兼營商業嗎大家知道不行嘛對不對如果我要兼職我要經過主管單位或是機關的同意嘛對不對"},{"start":2021.886,"end":2043.168,"text":"所以一個公務員我下班當然各位單位應該不會禁止大家去賣二手的東西嗎?不會因為我不是拿這個當營業的 對不對我只要不是拿這件事情來賺錢謀利營業常態的話我不用負消保法的責任所以這個定義是每個字都有它的意義存在的"},{"start":2043.829,"end":2067.863,"text":"好 再來更有趣的是在消費者所謂消費者是指以消費為目的而交易使用接受服務的人好 今天有一個某甲去夜市買一個胡椒餅給某甲當晚餐然後某甲吃了之後上吐下瀉請問甲這個人是不是消費者大家注意一下為什麼題目會這樣寫胡椒餅是誰買的胡椒餅是誰買的"},{"start":2072.383,"end":2087.693,"text":"他媽媽買的嘛那他吃嘛 對不對如果我們純純從民法上的契約關係買這個胡椒餅的買賣關係是存在誰之間媽媽跟廠商嗎欸 這個小朋友只是單純把它拿來吃吃了拉肚子那他可以主張是消費者嗎這個小朋友可以提告嗎"},{"start":2093.905,"end":2117.338,"text":"可以 為什麼 注意喔使用商品跟接受扶責人就是所以這個東西不用是你買的只要人家買了 然後給你 然後你拿來吃 就是使用商品的小朋友也是可以當 他也是可以當權力受害的人啊對啊 就像我們後面有一個例子 就是先爆雷好了 不知道走到這邊有沒有時間"},{"start":2118.939,"end":2142.598,"text":"我們有一個案子在新竹就是我們當事人呢辦了一場喜宴然後喜宴呢就宴客嘛然後大家都來吃飯吃完飯之後因為他們那個新竹的飯店食物不清不清潔有四十幾個回去拉肚子上吐下瀉請問一下上吐下瀉的賓客可以主張消保法的責任嗎其中有包含小朋友"},{"start":2145.083,"end":2161.037,"text":"當然他自己不能提告啦因為他沒有成年他可能要透過他的法定代理人他的母親來提告這個是另外程序上的問題可是他能不能去主張消保法則在我們那個案例裡面只要你是使用商品接受服務的人你都會算是可以"},{"start":2162.165,"end":2190.97,"text":"就是可以主張消保法徵的人就我還吃喜酒嘛我是接受這個喜宴的這個場地這個飯店的東西所以我可以主張消保法徵我可以去告他違反消保法這個的相關的責任是可以的所以呢這就是擴張了所謂的消費者的適用對象再來 某椅的媽媽大概3歲的某椅去逛新開保護公司A9地板太滑某椅跌倒那請問一下這個椅可以主張消保法的責任嗎"},{"start":2193.702,"end":2218.277,"text":"這個跟第一個案例差在哪裡他們有買東西喔我只是去辦百貨公司吹冷氣而已對不對但其實以我們現在實務的判決見解會認為你就算沒有去百貨公司買東西你只是在他的那個走廊上滑倒什麼的代表百貨公司他提供這個服務沒有達到一定的品質或是什麼但這有舉證上的問題但是其實"},{"start":2219.258,"end":2247.552,"text":"有可能會使用這個接受服務的我去保護公司逛街跌倒我是可以主張消費者責任即使我沒有買任何的東西也可以再來有一間公司在網路上成購買家具送來家具之後發現有瑕疵可不可以主張大家立法院有可能主張消保法的消費者嗎我們可以說立法院是消費者嗎有沒有可能"},{"start":2248.971,"end":2272.039,"text":"有沒有可能?立法院有可能是消費者嗎?我們看我們在消費者的定義是說以消費為命令而交易使用商品或接受服務者我們其實並沒有限定一定要是自然人或是法人他是故意用一個者所以其實我們用消保法的定義來講其實法人也有可能會是一個消費者"},{"start":2272.759,"end":2294.47,"text":"例如說好了我們立法院我們就是有員工缺筆嘛然後我們就是買了幾支筆然後報統別就發現那幾支筆有問題是壞的根本就寫不出來那我們要去主張退貨可不可以如果是這種純消費關係而沒有其他的在消費在製造或是什麼之類的情況底下是可以主張消費者責任的"},{"start":2295.37,"end":2307.767,"text":"所以大家不要覺得好像只有自然人才能主張我是消費者喔公私法人都是有可能的當然這會比較困難一點啦因為你要去說明你買這些東西是基於消費這個關係但是在法律上真的是有可能的"},{"start":2308.749,"end":2326.828,"text":"好 再來某丁公司向上游廠商買漁貨然後他是為了要做成罐頭轉售嗎因為他有一個要加工轉售所以他是一個商業盈利的目的所以他就不是單純的消費所以他就不能主張這個消費者的適用的關係好"},{"start":2329.411,"end":2330.232,"text":"消費糾紛的實用法律課：破解消費糾紛的實用法律課：完整會議"},{"start":2344.151,"end":2372.303,"text":"這邊有一個 這個是消保會的這個圖啦大家可以看 如果發生消費爭議的時候我們可以跟地方政府的消費者服務中心或是跟這個消費者保護團體這個消費者保護團體就是我們常說的消基會嘛消基會是一個民間的基金會那消保會呢 它是一個算是有公營色彩的一個委員會但是其實呢 我們能做的東西是申訴跟申請調解"},{"start":2374.195,"end":2402.585,"text":"那如果我們去申請消費者調解欸結果調解不成立怎麼辦?我們去申請消費者調解欸今天有一個公司欸他本來說要 例如說我賣一個課程結果我才上一堂課那間公司就倒了那我剩下的課程他還不給我退貨我去申請消費調解欸結果負責人不來或是他來他不願意賠償那我要怎麼辦?對最下面這條路有沒有看到?就是要去走法院"},{"start":2403.763,"end":2426.916,"text":"所以其實消費者的這個調解他比較是一個調解機制那頂多是消保會覺得這個公司很惡劣的時候他們可以用行政機關去罰他罰還或是去公佈他的姓名說這是一間很惡劣的公司但是如果你個人想要把你的錢拿回來想要主張你的權益最終終究可能還是要去走法院才能保障大家的權利"},{"start":2429.532,"end":2449.968,"text":"其實在消保法還有一個東西叫做團體訴訟就是如果20個人以上發生了大規模的消費糾紛的時候我們可以去找消基會消基會會幫你們請一個免費的律師幫你們去打官司這樣子我們就自己不用負擔律師費但是這件事情有好有壞有好有壞的結果會發生在哪裡"},{"start":2455.015,"end":2481.416,"text":"舉例來講我們像塑化劑案大家那個時候還記得塑化劑這個案子嗎就是我們那個飲料裡面的那個糖漿跟果漿是有加塑化劑是工業用的那個幫助凝固的那個東西嗎對啊我以前超喜歡喝那種就是那種就是糖漿的茶所以可能也喝了很多那塑化劑呢當時有568個人來請求求償78.7億元最後法院只判了395萬元"},{"start":2484.508,"end":2490.691,"text":"所以這個568人一個人分不到一萬塊那大家知道為什麼判那麼少嗎為什麼說話機那時候鬧得很大結果法院判決最後一個人拿不到一萬塊為什麼這個我不能這樣講這個可能有因為我也沒辦法知道這可能要如果法官被抓到被判決有罪確定我才能這樣講"},{"start":2510.523,"end":2520.137,"text":"法院的判決理由是說因為我們沒有辦法確定塑化劑是不是真的有害於人體或是造成多少的損害"},{"start":2524.219,"end":2550.391,"text":"對 因為它可能不是那種像毒藥或什麼吃下去立刻會死亡的東西而且這種東西沒辦法做人體實驗吧 對不對我們不可能說我們找一些人吃找一些人然後餵他吃一些有毒的東西然後看他的反應會是怎麼樣而且有一些這種毒素攝取進去之後它有時候是10年20年後才會發生結果所以因為做垃圾這種東西從來都沒有人想過它會被加在飲料裡面"},{"start":2550.951,"end":2576.405,"text":"所以也沒有任何的實證研究﹖可以證明說話機會對人體造成任何的影響所以最後法院判呢﹖就是判說那你買這些飲料﹖買這些奶精﹖你應該要退錢所以這些都是你買的那些飲料﹖跟奶精那些的錢對﹖頂多就再賠你一點﹖相當於這些的錢而不是對你身體有長期的損害﹖因為沒辦法證明這個是這種訴訟有時候很困難的地方再來錢櫃失火案大家記得這發生在什麼時候嗎大家知道發生什麼時候嗎"},{"start":2581.432,"end":2608.193,"text":"發生在立法院前一次被委的時候不是上個月那一次喔不是民國八戒 沒有那麼久立法院前一次被委是什麼時候上一次 不是上個月那個次喔是比較久以前 那是什麼時候常常被委嘛 好吧比較大的那一次太陽花那一次 2014年2014年的時候權貴失火 到現在判決還沒出來10年了"},{"start":2609.778,"end":2628.168,"text":"所以訴訟這種東西就是都 團結訴訟就會很久你說那個鈴笙 錢櫃鈴笙店嗎其實我不清楚欸 對啊 應該有吧因為那個十年了 然後在那邊應該會想辦法把它復原吧 我不清楚 對"},{"start":2629.974,"end":2658.407,"text":"好再來八仙城報案八仙城報是應該也是差不多那段時間吧那個時候應該也是有快10年的時間了對不對那八仙呢其實435人請求99億那一省呢是派4億多元然後認為呢八仙樂園是沒有必要賠的大家一定會有人跳起來說可是我昨天還是前天看到新聞說八仙要賠對不對"},{"start":2659.79,"end":2666.129,"text":"大家有沒有看到那個新聞昨天有一個最高法院新聞說 判決要賠欸為什麼老師上面寫 判他先不用賠"},{"start":2669.431,"end":2691.96,"text":"因為那些八仙城堡那時候不就是他那個泳池嗎然後炸了對不對然後可能有幾百個人上千個人受傷有些人去找消保會這邊有435人是找消保會去打團體訴訟那有些人呢就是我自己請律師我自己獨立去打官司自己請律師自己打官司的一大堆都已經判決確定了結果團體訴訟人現在還在一審"},{"start":2694.321,"end":2712.981,"text":"所以有時候團結力量大的缺點就是你們就會被綁在一起舉例來講430幾個人裡面如果其中有幾個人他的資料不齊全或是說他可能中間發生情況例如說他的病情變嚴重病情變輕要去調整訴訟的時候你其他400多個人都會受到影響大家可以理解嗎"},{"start":2715.023,"end":2726.816,"text":"團體輸送有好有壞有時候團結力量大但有時候有些案子早就已經判決確定了現在他們還在議審再過十年我看應該都判不了因為這個標的太大了"},{"start":2728.422,"end":2753.313,"text":"好 再來還有亞歷山大嘛亞歷山大這個應該更久了這個應該有超過15年以上了那個時候就是亞歷山大的那個健身房他們健身房收了很多錢之後就惡意倒閉然後會員就去提告嘛所以呢一省的時候呢是八千多個會員一起去找銷機會然後最後呢判了兩億多元二省呢也是判說公司要跟負責人要跟公司連帶賠償2.39億元這個是消保會的案例"},{"start":2756.374,"end":2771.685,"text":"再來是我們最近不是很常見就是個資的相關的問題嗎?台灣的個資呢有打過一個團體訴訟就是熊市旅遊熊市那個時候呢就有大規模的個資外洩所以呢然後就有那個熊市旅遊的消費者接到那個電話說"},{"start":2772.486,"end":2797.698,"text":"阿你跟我們熊獅買了某某機票阿現在因為那個賬戶扣款有問題你要去操作ATM大家就這種最典型的詐騙嘛欸結果熊獅呢就有很多人被騙了他們就找消保會主張說的這個熊獅保存個資有問題所以要提消費者的共同訴訟結果一審是判這些消基會的代表的這些消費者敗訴那大家會知道為什麼熊獅贏消基會敗訴"},{"start":2801.335,"end":2827.831,"text":"為什麼為什麼資料一定是從他那邊洩漏的因為你想想看那個詐騙機詐騙的單位可以打電話跟你說你在什麼時候從熊市旅遊就是訂了什麼樣的東西代表這個資料一定從他那邊來的嘛對不對 現在這種詐騙都是這樣子啊所以資料是從他那邊洩漏的絕對沒有問題他沒辦法否認嘛"},{"start":2837.618,"end":2864.383,"text":"這個是兩個 第二個問題這個可能之後有機會來講個資吧我再跟大家提個資外洩一定會被詐騙嗎例如說我也常常接到詐騙電話說例如說我去買我去誠品買書結果就知道詐騙電話說我去誠品的網拍啊什麼扣款有問題叫我去操作會議我就直接掛掉嘛對不對大家都有接過這種詐騙電話所以你的個資外洩一定會導致你被詐騙嗎台灣有六成的法官不認為喔"},{"start":2865.796,"end":2878.242,"text":"他到最後判決寫的就很像是非難被害者他就是管弱莫講說怎麼會被騙呢這是你自己的問題吧 對不對他們不敢這樣直接的講但是他們的判決的治理行間透露的意思就是這樣子因為我看到很多這種判決"},{"start":2879.662,"end":2905.66,"text":"熊獅這個旅遊 熊獅旅遊的這個案例 一部分是因為法官有這樣見解 沒有錯另外一部分 法官認為說 熊獅說他們是因為駭客入侵被駭客入侵呢 然後偷走他們的資料庫那他們呢 有依照主管機關去建防火牆啊 去建那些什麼東西的所以有通過主管機關的驗可 所以交通部有認證過說他們資安問題是沒有問題的 但還是被偷了所以法院就說 啊"},{"start":2906.36,"end":2916.58,"text":"因為台灣阿或是現在全世界駭客都很猖獗嘛我們沒有辦法完全阻止駭客入侵所以只要你符合主管機關的要求那即使真的外洩了我們也不能怪你"},{"start":2917.898,"end":2942.698,"text":"這是一省的見解但是二省的結果是最後和解了嘛那因為一省是消費者全敗嘛那如果二省消費者不拿一點錢回來消費者不可能會同意和解嘛所以二省應該是熊市有賠錢但是呢賠多少錢我在消基會的官網查不到我在任何的媒體都查不到應該是熊市旅遊有跟這些消費者在和解條件裡面有簽保密"},{"start":2943.638,"end":2968.323,"text":"所以他們就沒有公佈 而消基會自己大可打這件事來宣傳 但他們也沒有所以這個是我們幾個比較團體訴訟所以我們剛剛講團體訴訟有好有壞 當我以後遇到這種消費者糾紛的話你要記住團體訴訟你可以省律師費 你可以搭順風車但這台順風車有可能就是很慢很慢的電車人家自己打官司可能跟高鐵一樣就到了 你還在區間車慢慢晃這樣子所以這是有好有壞的事情"},{"start":2972.042,"end":2980.479,"text":"消費糾紛的案例今年消保會有整理出來去年跟前年最容易產生消費糾紛的"},{"start":2982.045,"end":3001.599,"text":"第一個呢是線上遊戲那線上遊戲其實常年霸佔第一名阿你看而且去年大暴增阿他暴增了67%從7000多件變成4000多件那第二名是運輸運輸呢有3000多件大家知道為什麼運輸的消費糾紛會很多嗎大家想到運輸會想到什麼蛤飛機嘛像那種颱風霧點阿什麼改班之類的嘛還有什麼"},{"start":3010.64,"end":3014.902,"text":"因為我們台灣在消費者糾紛的分類把Uber Eats跟Foodpanda這種外送業歸納在運輸業所以它其實不是食品業喔它是運輸業大家我們等一下看下一個表格就知道了"},{"start":3035.529,"end":3053.482,"text":"那所以呢運輸業之所以會這麼多就是因為大家現在很普遍都在叫Uber Eats跟福龐打嘛特別像現在最近天氣那麼熱大家不想要走出門嘛有時候Uber Eats叫一叫門口拿就好了所以但是這個會有很多的糾紛嘛再來第三個是食品以及服飾什麼的那還有補習班跟健身"},{"start":3054.463,"end":3065.618,"text":"之前健身業是第五名但後來健身比較少現在是補習班的九分反而是最多的第五名超過了健身業這個是我們這個消保會的統計"},{"start":3067.048,"end":3086.83,"text":"那這個是前年消保署統計的六大電商被申訴的案例大家可以注意一下這是一百一十一年的其實這是一百一十二年四月的報導嘛所以照理說今年應該有一個去年的對不對因為去年是一百一十二年的但是我沒有看到可能今年就不敢做了所以呢"},{"start":3088.331,"end":3114.731,"text":"所有被這個申訴的電商第一名就是蝦皮那他其實有兩千多件再來是富邦媒體科技是什麼就MOMO百貨MOMO什麼的再來PC Home露天那其實還有雅虎跟東森得意購大家可以看到這個其實每一個的那個差距落差是很大的第一名是兩千七第二名是一千一第三名是四百七十五"},{"start":3115.532,"end":3117.394,"text":"蝦皮是最常發生爭議的一個平台再來就是Momo"},{"start":3135.148,"end":3158.85,"text":"好 那這個是台北市的消費糾紛的統計表這個跟之前不一樣 這台北市的統計那所以呢 台北市的統計呢被申訴第一名就是這個動勢暴雪的線上遊戲嘛線上遊戲有3600個動勢暴雪這期就佔了2588個啦然後第二名也才100多個而已所以它其實是造成就是台灣的那個"},{"start":3160.371,"end":3186.159,"text":"網路遊戲的被申訴的消費糾紛大爆衝的元兇就在他這第一個再來網路電視購物類有3000件那第一名一樣是蝦皮最常出問題的再來是MOMO第三名是PC HOME那大家也看得出來其實這都是倍數的關係蝦皮的糾紛大概是MOMO的一倍那MOMO的糾紛又差不多會是PC HOME的一倍所以蝦皮是最常有糾紛的"},{"start":3187.26,"end":3189.355,"text":"再來運輸類嘛大家看到運輸類這三個是什麼"},{"start":3191.155,"end":3216.953,"text":"不是Uber不是什麼最大的出問題的就是Uber E再來是Furpanda第三個是和雲行動這是什麼大家知道和雲行動對沒錯Iran因為大家現在不是很多就會租Iran的車嗎所以Iran是運輸類的糾紛第三名再來旅遊類客遊天現在是客路嘛酷遊天是KK Day那Agoda就是大家現在開始"},{"start":3217.754,"end":3220.557,"text":"第五個是最有趣的,是不動產類不動產類呢,其實衝到了第五名他衝到第五名的原因是因為個人房東現在是"},{"start":3236.331,"end":3262.548,"text":"被消費者糾紛的不動產類的第一名大家注意一下什麼東西叫個人房東在座一定有個人房東存在我不知道大家知不知道大家雖然在立法院工作可是大家可能不一定知道112年1月的時候我們已經修了那個之前的那個住宅的那個租屋的保護法嘛所以現在個人房東跟房客之間適用消費關係"},{"start":3264.773,"end":3292.826,"text":"以前只有那種包租業者或是那種你是專門在做租屋的這種傳染業者才會適用消費糾紛現在你即使只有一間房你把這間房租給房客你跟他都是消費者跟就是企業的關係了所以都要適用消費糾紛我們會不會提到這個是去年1月才新立的法所以開始就出現很多的糾紛因為可能很多人老房東就是用依照之前的方式在處理結果新的法規一來了然後就產生糾紛了"},{"start":3294.787,"end":3322.517,"text":"好 那我們來這邊來提到呢不平等條款也應該要遵守嗎那首先呢我們來講一個最重要的東西是定型化契約我相信呢在座的同仁大家能夠在立法院工作代表著學士素養背景很厲害那特別還有法治局的嘛能在法治局工作一定也是懂法律的人大家一定都知道消保法可以保護我可是我問大家消保法最重要可以保護你的東西是什麼你回答得出來嗎"},{"start":3324.346,"end":3342.024,"text":"我個人以律師而言我們看了那麼多判決我覺得敲爆法最重要的除了舉證責任跟廣告不實則以外最重要的就是定型化契約的這些相關規定為什麼首先呢民法裡面呢有一個規定叫做定型化契約這個是二四七之一"},{"start":3342.665,"end":3367.185,"text":"他說 如果當事人一方預定用於同類契約而訂立的契約為左類各反的規定 請示顯示公平者約定為無效所以民法其實有所謂的定情化契約什麼叫定情化契約這個是Google 大家都有用Google吧那你有看過這個東西嗎大家一定有 大家會做什麼事情"},{"start":3368.922,"end":3394.654,"text":"滑到最下面按確定對不對那有些的話是你可以不用滑到最下面你可以直接按確定對不對你就直接按確定對不對我相信大家一定都是直接按確定不會看啦因為我也是對不對因為他就會跟你這只是條款他就會跟你說你的權利義務關係阿如果你有什麼責任你有什麼問題的話你要怎麼規定就是說他會跟你說欸如果你跟Google有爭議的話請你去美國加州我Google總部跟我打官司你們都有這種條款"},{"start":3396.094,"end":3424.723,"text":"當然這個條款有可能是無效的啦因為我們小寶寶裡面有特殊的規定但是呢大家都不會看嘛好大家不要覺得你們手機啊什麼這個東西才會這樣子來你們看右邊這個東西字很小對不對大家講一項字更小這個東西叫什麼國外旅遊定型化契約書欸各位他已經放到這麼大了我都看不懂裡面的字欸對不對何況他如果印成一個A4紙大家有辦法看得了裡面的嗎"},{"start":3426.963,"end":3453.634,"text":"所以這個是定型化契約書大家不管是出國旅遊大家不管是去銀行開戶做什麼樣的服務一定都有簽過這種東西其實基本上我們的立法者以及我們的法院我們都認為消費者一定不會看這個東西所以這個東西裡面要是偷藏了什麼對消費者不利的東西那難道消費者就要當然接受嗎"},{"start":3454.975,"end":3476.011,"text":"所以地形化契約條款就是為了要保障這樣子的東西所以消保法對於地形化契約有些特殊的規定例如說它說如果有些條款它在解釋上面有兩三種解釋那我們就要去找這幾種解釋裡面對消費者最有利最好的那個方式來保護消費者"},{"start":3478.039,"end":3484.726,"text":"第十一條之一,消費者跟企業要簽地勤化契約條款之前,要有三十天的審閱期間。"},{"start":3499.406,"end":3524.332,"text":"欸 例如說大家要結婚那你們要來 我是飯店 你要跟我來簽這個喜宴嘛好 我一個喜宴放在這邊然後你看到不看 直接簽了然後你可以過隔天說 我要主張審閱期 可以嗎法律有規定你有30天的審閱期 對不對可是那如果我看都不看直接簽 然後再去跟法院打官司說欸 他沒有讓我審視審閱期 可以嗎"},{"start":3527.861,"end":3557.222,"text":"台灣的法院基本上是不認可的喔審閱期這個東西法院大部分會認為這個是可以特約排除的所以大家簽約之前還是要小心啊審閱期這個東西事後如果要去主張的話基本上要贏的機會不是很高但你也可以說我要拿回去看看了過了30天內我再來簽再來這是可以的這也是在行審閱期可是自己放棄這樣的權利事後要尋求法院的保障有時候很困難"},{"start":3564.228,"end":3570.276,"text":"違反平等互惠﹑條款排除不以適用的規定﹑立法一直矛盾﹑主要權利義務導致契約難以達成,推定顯示公平"},{"start":3575.421,"end":3593.428,"text":"那已經最後呢消費者不可預見不構成契約內容那定型化契約的沒有經記載定型化契約的正常情況下消費者沒辦法預見的時候這個條款不構成契約之內容第四個東西我們等一下會講一個實際的案例我覺得蠻有趣的大家一定會遇到好再來"},{"start":3598.035,"end":3624.951,"text":"我覺得所有地形化器裡面最重要的東西叫做應記載不得記載事項這個規定在消防法第17條說中央主管機關為了要預防消費糾紛保護消費者所以我們要訂一個應記載不得記載事項那如果違反這個應記載不得記載事項它的規定是無效的一個契約底處應記載不得記載事項是無效"},{"start":3625.791,"end":3638.072,"text":"那如果有應該要記載的東西他沒有寫在定型化契約是構成契約之內容好聽起來很抽象我舉個例子大家可以看一下"},{"start":3639.844,"end":3669.173,"text":"我今天我去買一個房子然後就預售無買賣定型化契約因記載不得記載事項假設法律上是規定說這個契約一定要記載ABCDE然後不得記載事項是甲乙丙丁結果這個建商拿出來給我簽的這個約叫做ABC甲丙請問一下實際上面而言在法律會發生效力的契約條款長什麼樣子"},{"start":3670.899,"end":3698.426,"text":"我再重複一次法律的規定是ABCDE是應記載事項然後說不得記載甲乙丙丁結果建商給我簽了一個叫做ABC甲丙請問一下實際上從法律的角度來講真的有效的契約長什麼樣子同仁講得很大聲答案是什麼答案就是ABCDE"},{"start":3700.418,"end":3725.791,"text":"大家不要覺得好像這種事情好像在現實中不會發生喔最會偷的就是建商了建商到現在還是會一直在偷這些契約條款然後他們還會有其他的方式想辦法想要繞過這樣子的寶藏所以大家要注意為什麼這個東西會很重要大家發生契約糾紛的時候你第一件事情就是去找這個契約"},{"start":3727.642,"end":3746.676,"text":"到底有沒有所謂因記載或不得記的事項然後這個東西跟你一不一樣如果你找到說他記載的跟你的這個因記載或不得記的事項不一樣結果這個因記載事項對你比較有利你就找到一個殺手鐧了所以這個是一般人可能不會知道但是實務上法院或是判決常常會在吵的一個東西好"},{"start":3748.112,"end":3777.182,"text":"所以呢 我們現在應記者不得記的事項有幾個例如說我們講比較常見的 汽車買賣 有應記者不得記的事項預售屋 有 補習班 有 國內外旅遊 也有 飯店住宿 有婚紗攝影 有 宴會餐飲 有 月子中心 養護之家 網路零售 網路遊戲 跟大家知道台灣現在有幾個這種應記者跟不得記的事項的條款嗎有幾個大家猜猜看有幾個"},{"start":3778.834,"end":3779.775,"text":"法律課：破解消費糾紛的實用法律課：完整會議"},{"start":3802.881,"end":3803.021,"text":"網絡遊戲與網絡零售"},{"start":3818.522,"end":3842.455,"text":"養護之家和月子中心分開來養護之家和月子中心這兩個是衛福部管的去修的是衛福部像飯店住宿是國內外旅遊主管機關是交通部所以這個東西其實是交通部訂的通過行政院再出來所以它其實每一個的主管機關會不一樣大家猜有幾個不只12個我們上面就列了大概11個 再加一個其他"},{"start":3845.795,"end":3850.802,"text":"我今天早上出門前還特別去google行政院有一個專區是專門放這個應急載不得急車廂大家打這個關鍵字去查有84個"},{"start":3856.195,"end":3876.112,"text":"其實很多 有84個喔大家其實基本上你生活會用到的常見的買賣的種類或什麼的都有最新的一個是今年7月才修過的那個東西叫做住宅租賃因記者會不會認識一下所以大家如果是租客或是房東都可以去看一下都會影響到你們的權利好"},{"start":3882.56,"end":3882.96,"text":"定型化契約範本"},{"start":3909.13,"end":3919.266,"text":"可是因記者跟不得記者是當然會無效所以我抵觸範本不一定會無效頂多是我們會去衡量有沒有顯示公平它沒有像因記者跟不得記者那麼強的效力"},{"start":3921.766,"end":3942.859,"text":"好 所以我們跟大家比較一下如果是因記載跟不得記載是這樣他有消保法第17條的強制效率可是契約翻本他是參考性質所以今天呢 建商給你簽了一個契約他如果是抵觸了因記載不得記載是這樣那些條款是無效的可是如果跟契約翻本不同不一定無效喔"},{"start":3943.439,"end":3961.746,"text":"大家只是可以參考這個契約版本去說你跟契約版本不一樣好像有顯示公平怎麼樣可是它不是當然無效這個在法律上的效力有非常大的差別所以我們這邊也來講一下我們常見的人生大事也會變成消費糾紛有什麼樣的情況"},{"start":3963.834,"end":3975.331,"text":"好,我們這邊主要分了三個第一個是租房跟買房第二個是結婚第三個是我們看表演的相關規定我會拿一些法院的判決來跟大家討論"},{"start":3977.372,"end":3994.713,"text":"首先第一個這個住宅市場發展條例及管理條例第五條第一項這個條例就是我們常常講的那個租賃新法雖然它也不新了啦這個租賃新法在去年一月的修法說"},{"start":3995.794,"end":4014.233,"text":"如果租賃租宅出租人跟成租人間是為具有消費關係是用消費者保護法的相關規定所以今天即使我是只有一個房子我把這個房子出租給人家或是我就是把我的一個用不到的房間出租給其他人我都要負消保法的企業的責任"},{"start":4016.156,"end":4039.574,"text":"其實差別有幾個例如說現在我們單純跟房東的租屋糾紛我們都可以去找消保官或是我們去找消基會我們去申請消費的申訴以及調解機制都是可以的再來我們也必須要去適用住宅租賃定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項大家有租房子嗎?"},{"start":4040.814,"end":4065.189,"text":"大家有房東,在座有房東,然後也有房客嗎?一定都有嗎?大家的租屋契約是從哪裡來的?沒錯,在哪裡買?文具店就有,那個紅色的對不對?紅色直條紋的那個對不對?那個我以前也簽了不少,對啊,每年都簽一次對不對?那個東西跟這個東西是不一樣的喔,大家注意一下"},{"start":4066.653,"end":4084.4,"text":"有很多住宅、租賃、訂金、外印、寄禮物跟文具店的那個是不一樣的大家如果是房東的或是你是房客的你如果無聊你就把你的租賃企業拿出來然後去Google這個東西去比較差別很大喔"},{"start":4085.461,"end":4113.191,"text":"但是如果我們要適用消費關係的話﹖理論上來講﹖我們其實是要看這個東西﹖如果有產生糾紛的話﹖我們應該有可能會去施用應濟的跟不得其的事項當然這個是一個新的法令﹖它去年才訂的所以實務判決在法院會怎麼樣的運用﹖怎麼去施用﹖我們不是那麼的確定但是至少以字面關係來講﹖看起來這個東西是可以適用的大家一定都有當房東或是房客的時候所以大家可以注意一下"},{"start":4114.071,"end":4118.634,"text":"舉證責任轉換當你今天是消費者跟企業主的時候舉證的關係是導致的舉例來講今天假設我要告某A欠我錢"},{"start":4134.537,"end":4158.179,"text":"某一千我錢 我去法律 法院去提告法官就問說 欸 你說某一千你錢 你的證據在哪裡這個叫舉證責任嘛我們有一句話大家也聽過 舉證之所在 敗訴之所在 對不對所以當我要負舉證責任 我沒辦法說服法官這些事存在的時候 我就會輸可是在消保法的案件裡面 舉證責任是倒過來的"},{"start":4159.565,"end":4176.843,"text":"所以是企業主要去證明自己生產出來的東西是符合一般的品質跟一般的功用的所以不是消費者要去舉證說你東西有問題造成我吃壞肚子或什麼不是是反過來是企業主要舉證我的東西沒問題所以這個是小寶寶的舉證則"},{"start":4182.315,"end":4201.796,"text":"大家當房東的時候也是今天你的房客如果跟你主張說阿你的這個東西有問題阿你提供的東西跟實際上契約寫的不一樣如果是用消保法的話反過來是房東要舉證我給你的東西是符合一般的效果或是跟契約一樣的所以大家要注意一下喔再來"},{"start":4203.021,"end":4228.602,"text":"另外在不得記載事項裡面有10點基本上大家常見的東西都寫在上面了例如說不得拋棄審閱期間不得記載廣告僅供參考不得記載成租人不得申報租賃費用支出所以現在報稅的規定因為以前大家有時候房東會約定說你不能報稅但這個其實在刑法是無效的再來不得記載成租人不得簽戶籍為什麼會要記載不能簽戶籍大家知道什麼房東會說不能簽戶籍嗎"},{"start":4233.53,"end":4253.197,"text":"因為你戶籍簽進去他們可能就被國稅局發現你有去租賃嘛對不對有個沒關係的人突然跑去住你家他們可能就會被認為是非自用或是營登或什麼之類的所以其實同樣一樣嘛再來也不能記載說有出租人負擔的稅負叫出租錢增加時期增加部分有成租人負擔這個也是以前很常見的條文"},{"start":4254.217,"end":4282.597,"text":"不能記載免除或限制出租人故意不告知的瑕疵擔保證不能記載承租人要繳回契約書不能記載本契約是通知只能以電話方式維持不得記載違反強制或禁止規定不能記載承租人不得申請租金補貼所以我們其實都會看新聞或是在宣導說現在房東不能禁止承租人去租金補貼其實他的這個規定出現在這個地方了"},{"start":4283.798,"end":4308.2,"text":"所以即使他在契約上面寫說你不能申請租金補貼喔然後你呢如果我今天租給你我的稅變多了你要負擔什麼的這個東西叫做什麼因為我們這個規定叫做不得記載事項所以即使他契約中有寫但是抵觸了不得記載事項這個東西也會是無效的所以請大家特別注意一下"},{"start":4310.356,"end":4336.266,"text":"好再來呢我們來講一下預售屋買賣的重要條款那接著呢預售屋其實有所謂的買賣定型化簽證記者事項這個規定在第24條裡面那其實呢比較常見的呢就是說賣方違反建材設備及廠牌規格開工取得使用執照期限買方可以解除契約請大家注意一下喔"},{"start":4337.006,"end":4360.183,"text":"建材設備跟廠牌規格這個是一定要記載的喔然後他這個印記的事項就是說如果他違反了這樣的規定你可以解約所以意思就是說他今天跟你說他的建材用什麼樣的建材然後結果實際上來講他的建材長得跟他的是不一樣的這個是可以拿來作為解約的理由"},{"start":4360.803,"end":4386.29,"text":"或是說使用實照的這個期間其實最常見預售屋可以解約的規定就是延後晚工就例如說一般的契約條款他都會寫說如果我今天我預定是今年1月1號我要拿到實照結果我今年在3月30號之前我都沒有拿到超過3個月以上買方是可以解約的而且可以跟建商要求損害賠償那這個賠償額是多少"},{"start":4391.885,"end":4405.394,"text":"15%因記載這項是15%所以呢建商就在這個地方偷偷改啦他會跟你講他故意不寫你可以要求賠償或是什麼之類的規定這個我們在後面的案例會提到那我們就先休息10分鐘我們3點半再回來"},{"start":5002.687,"end":5019.3,"text":"請各位同仁回座 我們課程即將開始課程要開始喔 那我們坐好喔課程要開始喔差不多了"},{"start":5026.043,"end":5048.831,"text":"課程要開始囉剛剛有位同仁有來問到一個問題我覺得很不錯可以分享給大家就是我覺得實際上我們竟然也遇到很多這樣的情況就是其實我們在法律上可以看到像這個地形化經濟體的事項它的規定是說如果賣方嘛就是你的建商有一些違約啊有問題的時候我們消費者的權利是什麼權利是什麼"},{"start":5050.103,"end":5074.611,"text":"解除契約對不對那解除契約意思是什麼就這個約就沒了那頂多我就可以要求他損害賠償損害賠償法律規定可能就是你已經繳的金額的15%對不對可是大家都知道現在房價就是大暴漲對不對所以有可能我這個預售物是3年前5年前買的結果其實呢到現在快蓋好了他可能已經漲了30%40%50%甚至更高嘛"},{"start":5075.601,"end":5089.05,"text":"所以有些建商這時候就開始動壞腦筋他就開始搞一些有的沒有的事情然後就跟你說啊你如果不爽的話你沒關係啊我跟你解約你行使消費法解約我也可以賠你15%那他為什麼敢這樣講因為他覺得你這個約我當時可能1000萬賣給你但我現在房價1500萬所以呢我賠你這些錢跟你解約我再拿去賣我還賺"},{"start":5098.656,"end":5124.076,"text":"這個是實務上真的遇到的問題對那因為我們也沒辦法去跟他主張這個說我當時跟你買然後後來的這個差價的損害法院沒辦法這樣認為啦因為我們的違約金這個損害都是以我們實際上付的金額的來計算所以我覺得這是現在有些建商會變得有一點有恥無恐的原因啦就是他也知道說其實消費者有這樣的權利但因為這個是法律保證上的問題所以提供給大家參考一下我們真的最近遇到蠻多這樣子的問題"},{"start":5126.021,"end":5149.334,"text":"好 再來如果賣方違反賣方日瑕疵擔保責任的規定也是違約也可以羈髮解除的契約所以這個東西有時候會出現在什麼就是那種公設部分沒有點交或是沒有維修完成我覺得台灣的特色就是很奇怪就是點交 預售屋點交這件事情"},{"start":5150.234,"end":5165.286,"text":"常常會有那種已經蓋好三年五年的房子朋友都住進去了我就問他說你們的電梯為什麼感覺還是怪怪的他就跟你說因為我們公司還沒有點交或是說為什麼你們的管委會一直都沒有開會他說因為我們還沒有成立第一屆管委會"},{"start":5166.347,"end":5181.75,"text":"第一屆公安會成立之後就是要負責點交公社的嘛對不對我覺得這個在台灣有一點常見因為大家有時候覺得說房子能夠趕快好我趕快住進去就是一件好事但是這個其實都會涉及到建商所謂的瑕疵擔保或是維修的責任"},{"start":5182.674,"end":5201.769,"text":"好 再來第三個 如果我們根據第一款第二款解除契約的時候呢 賣方除了將買方應該繳的房地價款退出給買方 而如果有遲延利息要返還並且同時賠償總價額之百分之誇號 然後這個百分之多少 然後他還說是不得低於15%"},{"start":5204.196,"end":5219.398,"text":"所以為什麼我們剛剛一直跟大家講說這個違約金一般來講就是15%的原因因為英記載事實上裡面就寫說如果今天建商違約了他要賠消費者的錢"},{"start":5220.359,"end":5237.035,"text":"不能低於15%所以有些建商故意給你寫個5% 10%這些東西因為抵觸人因記載事項他都是無效的最低就是15%但是如果衍生到剛剛講的因為房價漲超過15%建商就等你來解約那個就已經是超過我們現在法律的問題了"},{"start":5239.461,"end":5266.298,"text":"常見預售物的爭議有什麼呢這是第一個這個是有一個最高法院的判決他是109年度台上至3335號的判決這個建商就是故意不寫如果是沒有拿到實用執照違約的東西他沒有寫如果我違約或是我遲延期付的話我的罰金的金額是多少"},{"start":5266.778,"end":5295.654,"text":"他故意不寫這個罰金那消費者就去告嘛消費者就去告呢然後他建商就說我們的契約沒有約定罰金什麼之類的但是因為因記載事項已經有寫當時是規定說如果有一天晚交屋就要給一個以萬分之五單例計算的遲延利息給買房那因為因記載事項有講這個遲延利息所以即使契約沒有寫建商也要賠這個錢給買房子的人這是第一個判決"},{"start":5298.451,"end":5299.833,"text":"109年台上第469號109年台上第469號"},{"start":5321.667,"end":5336.739,"text":"偷偷的在契約裡面 寫一個規定說如果我遲延超過了三個月你要先通知我 叫我旅行然後呢 如果通知我旅行之後我還是沒有旅行 你才可以解約"},{"start":5338.484,"end":5363.147,"text":"所以本來法律是規定說三個月一到你沒有拿到實照我就可以立刻解約他就偷偷塞了一個你要先跟我講那你跟我講的時候我還是沒有落成你才能解約但是法院也認為說這樣子的偷偷塞進去的規定他是違反了這個應記載事項而無效所以這個消費者是可以解約而不需要吹糾的"},{"start":5364.028,"end":5373.775,"text":"所以這個也是建商故意要去修改或增加一些給消費者的一些限制但是最後被認定不符效的案例再來最後這個我覺得蠻有趣的"},{"start":5375.164,"end":5396.724,"text":"這個是109年台上1460號這個建案叫做洪聖Amax在那個新莊副都心他是一個他現在好像改名了我去Google好像改名了他是一個工業宅就是工業宅理論上來講是不能當住家使用的啦但是他就把他拿來當住家賣那當然除了這個地方還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":5399.507,"end":5412.826,"text":"當時他在廣告上面用一個很大的標題出題字說本建築是由鋼筋鋼骨混泥土就是SRC所蓋成的他廣告大標題寫說我是"},{"start":5414.963,"end":5417.366,"text":"實用法律課：破解消費糾紛的實用法律課：破解消費糾紛的實用法律課：破解"},{"start":5430.78,"end":5457.87,"text":"你的契約標題是用一個很大的出體字記載說你是一個鋼筋鋼骨混凝土然後你在內文小字才記載說只有你六樓以下是鋼筋鋼骨混凝土這個消費者是難以辨識這個存在有誤認之餘意思就是說我們一般的消費者只看得到你那個出體字寫說你是SRC一般是看不到你那個小字寫那個就是什麼AB1到六樓這個方式很像就是"},{"start":5458.956,"end":5482.629,"text":"大家以前在路邊不是會看到在賣那個蜂蜜的對不對然後就會貼那個蜂蜜不純砍頭大家有看過那個嗎就 人家就說欸這個你蜂蜜不純啊然後欸有摻水啊假如說好我砍頭就砍那個蜜蜂的頭就拿一隻蜜蜂砍頭給你看就像這種手法啦對不對這以前的那種老笑話欸建商到現在還是會做這件事情的啊所以這也是蠻有趣的"},{"start":5485.111,"end":5495.713,"text":"好 但是我覺得現在御壽屋最大最大的風險就是所謂一岸建商的存在我想在座應該有很多人知道這樣子但有些人可能不知道"},{"start":5497.915,"end":5515.488,"text":"我們常常會認一個很大的品牌嘛例如說新復發建設例如說宏泰、宏盛例如說這些但是如果你們去簽買賣期的時候你會發現假設今天這一個建案它是宏泰、宏盛建案"},{"start":5516.489,"end":5541.924,"text":"結果你簽的時候發現 跟你簽約的人怎麼不是宏泰跟宏盛他可能是一個名字很像的 宏圈宏X 宏A宏B 對不對但他跟你講說我們是個宏泰集團下面的子公司阿我們蓋得很有 我們很有經驗什麼之類的結果你簽約的 買了之後買完之後 建商陸續交窩了之後他就做什麼樣的事情他就把這間公司關掉close掉 讓它倒掉"},{"start":5543.22,"end":5561.421,"text":"那會影響到什麼權利在民法裡面所有的買賣企業的瑕疵擔保責任原則上是可以到五年的所以例如說你有一些漏水或是一些大的問題什麼之類的如果他有這些責任他一開始沒有告知你在五年內才發現的話其實你們是可以主張瑕疵擔保的責任的"},{"start":5562.582,"end":5582.64,"text":"可是你發現建商間蓋得有問題例如說他蓋得跟實照不符他這個明明跟你說是泳池結果後來主管機關一查說他只是景觀水池那他只是沒有禁止你的住戶去景觀水池裡面游泳而已超常見喔大概我覺得市售的泳池建案有50%以上其實是景觀水池"},{"start":5583.98,"end":5604.538,"text":"因為泳池有很多的限制阿你要有消防阿你要有消防員什麼那些你要有救生員那些的所以他們就會弄一個景觀水池然後灌水說欸你們住戶自己去游泳的跟我沒關係還有就是有一些它的那個蓋的其實跟使用執照是不一樣的很多呢發現這樣的問題之後要去找建商結果建商已經收了"},{"start":5605.899,"end":5632.844,"text":"但是你又告不到其他的他的母公司或其他的公司所以我覺得一岸建商是現在很大的問題當然因為政府機關要管很難但是有沒有真的要管我也不知道 對不對所以大家買預售屋最大的風險就是在這裡有時候你去認一個大的建商但是其實還是有可能會有這樣子我就不要點名有哪些我們自己打過幾個官司有幾個建商真的就是會做像這樣子的事情"},{"start":5633.905,"end":5641.634,"text":"好所以有時候你去買那種你買那種一開始就全部賣完的其實有時候風險比較高為什麼"},{"start":5644.281,"end":5672.908,"text":"因為你一開始的 預售都賣完 遣銷就賣完代表說他一開始全部都已經收到錢了嘛那他蓋完買 把他全部交屋的時候手上沒有餘屋的時候 他就可以帶著錢跑啦 對不對那反而有些建案 他手上還有餘屋嘛那他還要賣他手上的餘屋那他一邊還在賣的時候 有一些糾紛 有一些問題他就得去修嘛 對不對因為不然的話 他手上那些東西 他可能會賣不掉"},{"start":5673.968,"end":5682.867,"text":"所以有些東西好的壞我買到一個熱門物件有時候未必好我去買一個好像滯銷的東西有時候也未必不好對啊 這個題目給大家參考一下"},{"start":5685.127,"end":5685.267,"text":"建築物現況"},{"start":5711.121,"end":5732.056,"text":"我們買一個房子我們在意的是它的採光在意是它的地點在意是這些東西但是採光啊地點這些東西有時候不太會變嘛但是它的室內狀況是有可能會改變的所以呢其實我們在這個地形化契約裡面呢應記者是這樣最重要的東西就是這些現況確認書那我們法律有規定一定要寫在現況確認書的東西有包含什麼"},{"start":5733.897,"end":5755.706,"text":"包括有沒有增建改建違建有沒有漏水是不是輻射屋海沙屋凶宅是不是列管的山坡地住宅有沒有約定專用有沒有出租有沒有附屬設備以及頂樓平台有沒有基地台這些東西其實很多這個有幾十項大家有興趣的話可以把它調出來看這些都是建物的現況圖現況書必須要寫到的東西"},{"start":5760.302,"end":5788.204,"text":"好 我不知道大家有沒有看其實我寫這個凶宅的這個專題他其實最近蠻熱門 常遇到一些問題阿那剛好 其實我是已經把PVT交給就是懺患人員之後我才發現網飛有一個劇叫做幸福房屋事件部吧我不知道有沒有聽過對 那個就是在講凶宅的啦但是後來也已經有點不知道在演什麼了但是他前幾集是蠻認真在討論凶宅這件事情的"},{"start":5789.005,"end":5800.635,"text":"那大家都知道什麼是凶宅嗎?大家知道嗎?非自然死亡嗎?對不對?那凶宅的定義是什麼?因為"},{"start":5802.739,"end":5827.266,"text":"可是因為這個東西一間房子是不是凶宅關乎一個房子的房價很多嗎有可能就是三分之一或是一半的房價就沒了所以呢這件事情就會變成實務上的主爭點大家都會吵說我是不是凶宅那我們呢主要最早出現凶宅的定義是內政部97年的這個函式"},{"start":5829.617,"end":5854.943,"text":"本建築物改良物與賣方產權是否發生兇殺或自殺致死的情勢那是指賣方的產權持有部分在本建築物改良物之鑽研部份曾發生兇殺或自殺的死亡不包含自然死亡之事實及陳施的鑽研部份以及在鑽研部份有求死行為致死但不包含在鑽研部份章考殺陳施他處之行為"},{"start":5855.703,"end":5855.943,"text":"兇殺跟自殺其實他沒有"},{"start":5878.824,"end":5890.052,"text":"他的定義是兇殺或自殺嘛對不對但其實我必須說這個是最早就可以回答你剛剛的問題這個是最早的一個含釋可是問題是實際上面來講"},{"start":5894.115,"end":5919.014,"text":"現在的不動產說明書應記載不得記載事項是說產權測驗是否有發生兇殺自殺易氧化碳中毒或其他非自然死亡所以其實如果我們有非自然死亡這個要件的話是兇殺是他殺或是墜樓其實就沒差因為有時候大家會吵說阿這個他不是自殺阿他是意外掉下去的嘛對不對"},{"start":5920.461,"end":5934.289,"text":"我有遇過這個案子欸他為什麼會吵這個?吵他是意外還是他是吵他是自殺?哪個地方會有這個差異?什麼時候這個東西會有很大的差別?是自殺還是墜樓?保險正確解答"},{"start":5939.471,"end":5966.676,"text":"自殺受險跟意外險是不賠的所以我們要那個當事人就是來問然後他一直想要把因為那個就是保險公司說你這個是自殺他說我這個不是自殺你看這個女兒牆這麼矮他一定是講電話講一講自己不小心掉下去了就吵這件事情但這是事實舉證的問題啦但是那個是在保險會有差別對不對因為他會涉及到你能不能理賠這些險可是在我們的討論凶宅這件事情來講是沒有差別的因為他都是非自然死亡"},{"start":5967.677,"end":5973.738,"text":"好 我們來講幾個實際案例 來看大家有沒有沒電了不好意思電池嗎 沒關係我先用滑鼠好了好"},{"start":5988.895,"end":6008.345,"text":"不好意思 謝謝那我們來講這個案例有一個獨居老人假居住在某個A房屋內然後呢 因為心肌感受過的時候長達幾個月都沒有人居住後來因為房屋內有發生惡臭被鄰居通報才發現請問A房屋是凶宅嗎?聽起來很噁心對不對但他是凶宅嗎?"},{"start":6012.234,"end":6027.051,"text":"沒錯因為他是怎麼死的他是心肌梗塞他是因為疾病因為疾病的死亡是自然死亡所以即使因為他因為疾病死亡之後造成室內有一些不好的情況但是他都不屬於凶宅"},{"start":6028.012,"end":6043.821,"text":"再來第二個某已因積欠高額賭債被頭家追債頭家拿著刀去他的B房屋砍了他然後呢他因為流血很多嘛他就跑跑跑跑到隔壁最後死在隔壁的這個C房屋裡面請問B跟C哪一個是凶宅"},{"start":6045.199,"end":6061.093,"text":"沒錯 因為大家有看到那個法條要件嗎法條要件是以說如果是致死的這個地方才叫做凶宅如果你是被砍殺而成屍他處你一開始被砍的那個地方不是凶宅"},{"start":6062.534,"end":6078.785,"text":"好再來某筆因為投資不利基線高而在屋所以他在居住的大廈14樓低房屋跳樓然後呢摔落到同棟大樓3樓一房屋外的露台而身亡請問一下第一跟一是凶宅嗎不是嗎好我們來看這個要件喔"},{"start":6088.848,"end":6113.246,"text":"這一行 看到沒有在專有部分有求死行為致死 如從該專有部分跳樓所以他是從哪裡跳出去的他從14樓跳出去這個第一房屋 跳到3樓 這邊是3樓 露台 對不對所以第一房屋 他跳出去那個樓是凶宅喔"},{"start":6114.734,"end":6140.826,"text":"有人為了這件事情打官司喔雖然法條看得很清楚對不對但是真的有人去打有人是說他是從這邊跳出去但是他不是死在這他不是凶宅但是因為法條其實定得很清楚嘛所以他是凶宅那請問一是凶宅嗎大家有點是還是不是有點問題對不對他掉在哪個地方露台露台是什麼"},{"start":6143.834,"end":6165.115,"text":"嗯 有一個很棒的答案 約定專用對不對大家都希望露台是約定專用嘛 對不對我買一個三樓 那個三樓有一個外面那個陽台我可以在那邊烤肉 可以在那邊種花 可以在那邊對不對不是很棒嗎 有些人會主打露台戶嘛當有人掉下來我就希望他不是確定專用了 對不對所以這個案子其實是一個訴訟"},{"start":6166.616,"end":6189.111,"text":"他是一個官司 有一個人呢 買了一個某三樓的一房屋買了這個一房屋之後呢 他才發現原來這個案子曾經發生過一個 這裡發生過一個 自殺案件他就是吊在他買的這個一房屋外面的露台然後他就說 他就告前屋主說 你怎麼沒跟我講呢 對不對你這個應該是違反了這個凶宅要告知的義務"},{"start":6192.003,"end":6215.277,"text":"結果法院判決認為所謂的凶宅是指建築物改良內有磚窯部分發生非自然死亡事故那這個系政房外面的三樓露台它的設計是空中花園跟緊急通道屬於公共區域不得作為約定專用的使用所以它那個露台是什麼是法律規定的逃生通道逃生通道可以約定專用嗎"},{"start":6218.501,"end":6237.541,"text":"前屋主還找了管委會出具一個函說我們有禁止這個地方約定專用所以看起來管委會是站在前屋主的這邊因為他不是約定專用的部分所以法律規定他即使吊在他家前面的露台也不是凶宅"},{"start":6238.726,"end":6257.613,"text":"所以這個東西其實涉及到的問題是到底它掉的地方是什麼這涉及到我們好像別人在上公益大廈管理條例對不對什麼是專有部分什麼是約定專用對不對對所以差別就在這裡好這是第三個案例第四個案例"},{"start":6258.553,"end":6286.869,"text":"某丁他在105年購買過F房屋前層屋主在不動產說明書有註明說這個F房屋中曾經發生過兇殺案然後某丁在110年轉手出售的時候他在不動產說明書勾選未曾發生非自然死亡並將該房屋出售給不知情的買家某物大家注意一下這個兇殺案是發生在某丁買這棟房子之前所以他轉手的時候他要告知嗎"},{"start":6290.179,"end":6291.259,"text":"轉手之後他會告知嗎?我們來看法條法條這邊寫什麼?本件物專有部分在產權持有期間有沒有發生過嗎?內政部的函示也是說在賣方產權期間"},{"start":6311.924,"end":6327.066,"text":"所以如果我們單純看韓式或是我們單純看英雞仔不得戒的事項的時候好像可以得出來說他可以不用講對不對我跟你說大家去google凶宅會有一些人在做洗凶宅這件事情"},{"start":6328.416,"end":6351.704,"text":"什麼叫喜凶宅這間房子在我可能本來有一間房子然後這間房子呢有發生凶殺案啊我現在賣出去就只有一半的價格怎麼辦我找一個人又說我找哎我找這位這位同仁我故意賣給他然後呢他呢就說哎這個呢有發生凶殺案不是在他持有他在拿去賣給別人委員會做這件事情喔"},{"start":6354.984,"end":6358.606,"text":"這個案件是一個真實的案例這個案例是一個刑事案件喔"},{"start":6372.576,"end":6391.141,"text":"這個就是有人買的時候發現前首屋主呢他沒有去勾沒有發聲他是勾選未曾發生非自然死亡賣給霧後來霧發現說其實你根本就已經有發生那個易氧化碳中毒死亡的案例可是你不跟我講害我買到凶宅就去告那個前屋主而且是告刑事告他詐欺罪"},{"start":6392.711,"end":6419.031,"text":"所以法律認為說不動產現況說明只是一個建議的範本並不是唯一解釋凶宅的內容那被告明明就知道他產權持有期間外曾經有發生過非自然死亡但他仍然去勾否 也沒有填寫說明欄位是為了刻意隱瞞犧牲房屋發生非自然死亡的事實所以他認為他構成什麼構成詐欺罪 判他一年十個月"},{"start":6420.478,"end":6446.134,"text":"所以其實你看網路上那邊寫說什麼洗凶宅什麼這些東西 有人真的這樣做 最後被判有罪為什麼 大家其實呢 如果你們有買房子 買賣成屋的話因為預售屋不可能會有凶宅吧 對不對 原則上不會有成屋買賣才有 你們去看你們的現況說明書它其實都不是只有寫你的產權期間是什麼的 包含現在新的因記載跟不得記載事項"},{"start":6447.034,"end":6471.943,"text":"他的誇號是有兩格第一個是說在你持有期間有沒有發生過非自然死亡如果有你要勾是第二個在你持有之前有沒有發生過非自然死亡你要勾我知道有我知道沒有跟我不知道三個所以你頂多就是去勾我不知道可是原則上為什麼這個案子會被判有罪"},{"start":6473.715,"end":6480.04,"text":"因為這個人去買房子的時候前所屋主有勾說這個案子發生過非自然死亡"},{"start":6481.129,"end":6502.517,"text":"所以照理說你後手一定知道有發生過這是凶宅嘛因為前面的人就有告訴後面的人所以後面的人知道所以照理說後面的人就像傳家寶一樣也要把這件事情傳給後面的喔對 第一個人跟人說欸這是凶宅喔第二個人賣掉之後也要說喔這是凶宅喔因為你知道嘛你如果不知道你一定是騙了嘛因為你現況說明書就有記載"},{"start":6504.082,"end":6532.251,"text":"所以這就是現在的現況說明書其實都會寫得很大當然其實我們剛剛有在吵說到底是專有部分還是約定專用的部分嗎其實現在的現況說明書會寫說如果你的約定專用的部分有發生這種非自然死亡的話你也要勾說是所以雖然法條是寫專有部分可是現在多數的現況說明書都會是包含所謂的約定專用的部分"},{"start":6533.9,"end":6552.539,"text":"約定專用跟專有的部分差在哪裡有機會來上公益大家管理條例再來上好了對 這也是蠻有趣的事情好 所以就是這樣子的問題大家覺得凶宅的定義要是嚴格一點比較難讓房子變凶宅比較好還是比較寬鬆一點比較容易讓房子變凶宅比較好大家覺得哪個比較好嚴格一點比較好還是寬鬆一點比較好"},{"start":6558.524,"end":6576.145,"text":"你覺得嚴格一點是比較難變成凶宅喔寬鬆一點是比較容易變成凶宅喔那個定義寬鬆一點嗎欸我覺得喔你覺得嚴一點比較好嗎其實我覺得這件事情絕大多數是看大家的立場來決定的"},{"start":6577.674,"end":6601.669,"text":"你是賣家你就很希望我的房子不要變凶宅我是買家我當然希望我不要買到有瑕疵的房子所以我覺得這個東西其實可以看到很多的拉鋸其實很多法院的判決到現在還在吵這樣子的問題所以有很多東西到現在其實並不是完全固定的見解有很多其他的地方還是有可能有變化的存在提問給大家參考一下當然現在"},{"start":6602.409,"end":6628.177,"text":"由法院的見解認為凶宅這件事情是一個客觀物資瑕疵什麼叫客觀物資瑕疵他認為你這個凶宅這件事情就跟你房子漏水跟你房子是海沙屋跟你房子是就是那個福壽屋一樣已經不管你到底賣房子不知道了他其實不管你賣房子不知道只要你的這個房子有這樣子的問題你房子就永久減價"},{"start":6630.018,"end":6640.894,"text":"對 那人家就可以來告你 跟你主觀上知不知道已經沒關係 有法院採取這樣子的見解喔對 所以 這個就是實務上運作上有差別啦希望大家都不要遇到凶宅的問題 對不對"},{"start":6644.124,"end":6660.675,"text":"好 再來我們會講一個東西叫做個別磋商條款修法法第二條第八項規定有說一個東西叫個別磋商條款就是指說企業當事人個別磋商而合意的契約條款那定期融化契約 進化契約抵觸個別磋商條款的約定者抵觸無效"},{"start":6661.789,"end":6679.48,"text":"魔鬼藏在細節中大家買房子的時候有沒有遇到一個情況就是建商拿了一個約給你簽在簽約之前突然你的業務代表或是那個經理手寫了幾個條款在後面你有沒有遇過"},{"start":6681.291,"end":6692.218,"text":"或是說你去買房屋本來在仲介的那種慣例式的契約裡面他又拿出了一張說這個叫做個別磋商條款叫你簽你們有沒有遇過"},{"start":6693.615,"end":6711.225,"text":"一定有人遇過 特別是御壽屋或是城屋建商 超喜歡用這種東西為什麼他們要做這件事情 因為根據修報法的規定 個別磋商條款既然是我們一對一討論出來的內容 它就不是所謂定型化契約"},{"start":6712.225,"end":6735.498,"text":"他就不是 定型化契約就是說我一個建商 我一個企業我預先做好的一份可能就是印個幾萬張就像大家手上的獎益一樣他就同一份印出來的嘛那給大家看 給大家簽約叫定型化契約可是如果是我跟你一對一討論出來的這個東西叫做個別磋商條款那他就可以不受到定型化契約條款的相關的限制"},{"start":6736.488,"end":6759.823,"text":"所以之前各大建商為了要躲避定期化協議的規定他們就開始偷藏這些奇怪的約定最後被法院打臉之後他們新的做法就是他們會主張一個所謂的磋商條款就像我們剛剛講的你要簽約的時候他們才臨時收寫在後面夾子或是拿出一個紙叫大家簽我舉個例子"},{"start":6763.411,"end":6788.897,"text":"這種得罪建商的東西我都不敢放在講義上面我就用唸的就是有一個淡水的洪聖興事件的建案他在106年被新北市府裁罰裁罰的理由是什麼他們在這個洪聖興事件的建案呢他們就是弄了這個個別磋商條款他們印了一張紙是影印的喔然後叫這些住戶去簽名那個個別磋商條款寫什麼寫說這個"},{"start":6792.116,"end":6798.191,"text":"土地增值稅要買方負擔理論上來講土地增值稅是買方要負擔的"},{"start":6799.212,"end":6819.22,"text":"然後他們建商就故意這樣子然後就有一些買房子的人後來發現說為什麼人家的土地證實社都是建商負擔只有我是我負擔所以就跑去跟那個建商吵建商就拿出了這張說你這個是個別衝傷條款不受消保法的限制然後住戶就不滿嘛我們就開始問左利用社說你有沒有簽電帳就發現大家都有簽所以他們429戶裡面呢統計有200多戶都有簽有260戶都有簽這個東西"},{"start":6827.103,"end":6844.603,"text":"所以後來他們就去集體的跟新北市的消保會去檢舉嘛消保會就說你這個東西嘴巴上說是磋商條款但其實你印了兩百多份就每個人的錢都一模一樣它也是一個變相的定型化契約"},{"start":6845.544,"end":6863.571,"text":"那你違反我們定型化企業應濟責任不得濟效也是這樣規定這個土地增值稅要是賣方負擔這件事情你這個個別磋商條款就是無效的所以還因為這樣被罰錢但罰十萬塊而已對啊對他們而言應該是九牛一毛啦所以跟大家提醒喔"},{"start":6864.531,"end":6889.452,"text":"現在建商真的會做這件事情但這件事情並不是沒有突破的可能性而是說如果真的所有人你們的建商你們一起買的人都有遇到這樣的情況有可能可以援引上這樣的見解去主張他已經請花契約但是要小心啦大家還是要小心喔所以遇到這種要簽約的時候建商阿或是這個企業阿拿了一個東西定時手寫叫你加上去的都要注意請說"},{"start":6898.866,"end":6907.863,"text":"是成立的所以如果他跟你個別磋商然後說就說這400多戶裡面只有你一戶簽說你要幫他付土地增值稅這是有效的"},{"start":6915.766,"end":6932.406,"text":"這就是我只能說是量變質變啊因為400多戶裡面只有一戶兩戶有簽那可能就會被認為是個別的嘛欸你說兩三百戶像我們的案例就會被認為一定是進行化的條款但是每個案例一定都會有邊界值嘛那10戶算嗎"},{"start":6933.988,"end":6951.598,"text":"五十戶算嘛 對不對所以這個個案有時候不是那麼好認定我覺得建商都會投機取巧啦他甚至每一個跟你寫的東西其實都他用手寫的然後有些會寫的故意有一點不一樣 對不對有時候會常見到這種情況所以我覺得現在建商他們最投機取巧的方式就是用我剛剛講的個別磋商條款"},{"start":6953.854,"end":6966.751,"text":"但是這個東西到現在來講是無解的喔如果你沒有辦法證明說他是定型化契約他又是自己跟你這樣簽的有可能你就沒有辦法受到我們剛剛講那麼多消費法的保障請大家注意"},{"start":6968.459,"end":6990.55,"text":"好 那我們講完滿房之後我們講稍微 輕鬆一點嘛就是食物中毒的案例啊然後這個案子是我自己以前自己打的案子這個在2019年的時候我們當時是一個聯發科的工程師啊然後在新竹嘛然後我們在新竹的飯店辦了一場婚禮那個飯店就是六福村"},{"start":6991.65,"end":7013.605,"text":"六福村在新竹有一個動物園嘛六福村除了那個樂園以外還有動物園嘛他們不是有一個飯店叫六福莊嗎就是那個號稱就是說你在住宿的時候旁邊就有長頸鹿或是犀牛走來走去那個對 他們就是在那個飯店裡面辦婚宴結果辦完婚宴之後結果開始有人上吐下瀉嘛然後上面總共有四十幾個人"},{"start":7014.506,"end":7022.632,"text":"那又是幾個上出下卸他們就覺得很丟臉嘛大家來吃我的喜酒就給我上出下卸我就覺得很丟臉所以他就委託我們來打這個官司好"},{"start":7024.551,"end":7045.921,"text":"那第一個問題就是說那些賓客大家去吃喜酒這件事情他吃喜酒的賓客跟這個飯店本身是沒有直接的契約關係存在但是我們剛剛有提到消費法的第二條因為他是使用服務商品嘛接受服務所以他有吃這個餐點是符合消費者可以用消費法的規定來請求償還賠償"},{"start":7048.018,"end":7076.392,"text":"再來飯店食物有問題是哪一方面負擔舉證責任我們剛剛有提到舉證責任導致這個規定在消防法第七條之一企業經營者主張商品流通市場或服務提供時符合當時科技或專業水準合理期待的安全性者就其事時能負舉證責任所以如果我們單純用這個規定來講是飯店要舉證提供的食物符合安全的規定大家覺得食物中毒案子好打嗎"},{"start":7079.025,"end":7102.492,"text":"大家說可以舉證啊導致啊什麼的但其實不好打有一個原因是什麼大家今天如果吃壞了肚子你有辦法確定你是哪一餐吃壞肚子嗎大家記得今天午餐吃什麼嗎想不起來是正常的啦我也想不起來今天午餐吃什麼今天早餐吃什麼昨天晚餐吃什麼昨天午餐吃什麼"},{"start":7104.09,"end":7123.388,"text":"大家覺得你吃壞肚子你多久內拉肚子是正常的假設我今天中午吃了一個有問題的東西好了我多久之內拉肚子吐是正常的多久以內一兩個小時嗎一天一天二十四個小時內嗎"},{"start":7127.848,"end":7149.432,"text":"對 我其實打這個案子我才知道的腸胃炎跟食物中毒有兩種第一種叫做細菌性的如果你是大腸桿菌滋生動之類的它一個小時到六個小時內會發生症狀但有一種叫做病毒性的食物中毒對 所以病毒性食物中毒它多久會發生反應24個小時到48個小時我們這個個案裡面"},{"start":7155.026,"end":7182.096,"text":"通常看每個人體質啦因為我們那時候有去研究醫學文獻一般人24到48我們這個案例是這些賓客他是吃禮拜六中午的午宴可是他們大規模出現上吐下瀉是禮拜日的晚上跟禮拜一的早上所以那個時候飯店提出第一個抗辯就是說你怎麼證明是我們是吃了我們的東西導致你上吐下瀉你會不會是吃麥當勞啊吃肯德基上吐下瀉"},{"start":7183.732,"end":7211.361,"text":"但是婚宴是相對好舉證的東西為什麼集體還有另外一個特色就是假設今天在座所有人都食物中毒好了那你們可能主張說你們吃了一個團餐吃了一個便當但有可能是旁邊立院三寶的問題嘛對不對有可能是雞排不新鮮大家都去立院旁邊吃雞排我記得我大學的時候我也常去吃因為我住那個徐州路的宿舍對不對所以"},{"start":7213.07,"end":7240.418,"text":"舉證很困難 但是婚姻有個特色你請喜酒 會有來自全台灣各地的人有可能是你學生時期的朋友你公司的朋友 你的什麼樣我們那個案例 他的新主辦企業有花蓮 有台北 有高雄所有的人集中在這裡 然後要回去那大家都上吐下瀉所以呢 就可以證明 這個一定是吃你的嘛因為其他人沒有吃共通的食物"},{"start":7241.098,"end":7260.432,"text":"要不然的話 也有的主張或是說 欸 假設今天在座所有立院的人都上吐蝦蟹 他們會抗辯說有可能是你們有懦弱嘛或是你們有細菌性的那種腸胃型感冒 對不對 他們都會提出這樣抗辯那我們的案例是因為是婚宴婚宴已經是相對好的舉證了我們查食物中毒案例 有兩種最好的舉證一種是婚宴 另外一種是什麼是畢業旅行"},{"start":7264.003,"end":7288.791,"text":"畢業旅行大家一團去旅遊嘛都吃一樣的結果那一團人就全部都上吐下瀉那個其實就是旅行社要負責任嘛對不對所以這是比較好舉證的所以食物上這種案例有時候不是那麼好舉證的原因然後我們那案例比較特別就是說他們有主張名譽權受損大家覺得有人來吃你的喜酒結果回去上吐下瀉你會覺得很丟臉名譽受損嗎大家覺得會有嗎"},{"start":7293.174,"end":7308.71,"text":"其實會有吧 多少會有但我們這個是天字第一號判決因為以前的消保法的案例都會認為說你吃壞肚子是你的身體受損可是你的名譽受損這件事情是比較抽象的啦但是這個是蠻少見的案例"},{"start":7310.372,"end":7329.164,"text":"可不可以要求懲罰性賠償金懲罰性賠償金消保法有規定說如果今天這個企業他是故意違反消保法的話你可以罰五倍的賠償金但是如果是重大過失可以請求三倍如果只有過失的話只能請求一倍"},{"start":7330.717,"end":7352.506,"text":"所以在台灣阿不會出現像美國那種超級誇張的懲罰性賠償金大家都有聽過阿什麼阿麥當勞薯條太燙阿什麼飲料太燙結果判個幾億元幾百萬之類對不對對台灣不可能有了台灣認為說你這個薯條太燙然後燙傷我了好那我賠多少如果你是故意的賠你五包薯條"},{"start":7353.786,"end":7353.906,"text":"發言委員：完整會議"},{"start":7377.523,"end":7400.89,"text":"我覺得美國 因為其實每個州的規定都不太一樣啦對啊 因為我們可能是參考一些那 其實我覺得美國他們 因為是case law 嘛所以他們個案法官他們在決定他的判決或是什麼的損害賠償金的那個我覺得 case by case 他們可以拉得很高但因為 像這種美國的判決會傳到我們這種遠東的小島上遠東是那種大家覺得特別有趣 特別"},{"start":7402.07,"end":7428.427,"text":"像這種被麥當勞燙傷然後就要幾百萬這種才會傳到我們這邊來所以我覺得可能他們也不是每個案子都可以有這麼巨額的損害賠償或什麼的只是說他們可能在法官個案的權限會比較多你在台灣法官判六倍你判決就違法了因為法規定你只能判五倍你判六九就判決違法所以在台灣其實我們個案法官的權力沒有那麼的大必須說"},{"start":7429.946,"end":7452.873,"text":"好 那這個是去年 前年的事情啊就是那個時候有一個叫S2喔 台灣潑水節那那個時候 那個時候還在疫情的期間他們說我們要找一些韓團的人啊 什麼的來表演嘛結果呢 在表演前一天才說因為疫情啊 簽證的原因 所以那些韓團的人都不能來了"},{"start":7453.573,"end":7479.408,"text":"那不能來的時候那些人都已經買票了嘛而且那時候一張票好像要兩三千塊吧就我就是為了要看這些韓團然後我才買票結果我買了之後欸你韓團不來了所以當時就在吵說要退票要損害賠償之類的但其實呢演唱會買票這件事情有一個應記載事項叫做藝文表演票卷定型化契約那藝文表演票卷的定型化契約規定呢記載事項是說"},{"start":7480.288,"end":7508.34,"text":"企業經營者要確保合於宣稱內容的演出那企業經營者的廣告跟表演內容保證要據此為主張所以如果你的主要表演內容在進行表演前發生變動的時候你要適當的通知那你通知完之後消費者可以在演出前要求全額退費但是如果你沒有在適當的方式或時間通知的話即使在表演結束之後你還是可以要求全額退費所以意思就是說我們今天"},{"start":7509.48,"end":7538.201,"text":"本來要請周杰倫、蔡依林啊結果都周杰倫、蔡依林都不行了結果我們就找一張大家都不認識的那種小咖來唱歌那他可能一兩個月前講那我可能在表演前我就可以退票可是當我在前一兩天才講那我們認為你沒有適當的工資所以即使表演的時間已經過了我們還是可以要求退票啊S2O這個案例呢當時消保會就認為他並沒有符合所謂的合理的通知所以今天即使是你"},{"start":7539.4,"end":7563.842,"text":"已經過了那個表演期間的演唱會已經過了你還是可以去退票好再來主辦單位在活動售票說明有說明說我們有保有更換場地跟藝人的權利消費者無法退票他們有這樣的規定但其實呢消票法第17條第4項第5項就是說違反地形化契約的這個公告就是這個因記載事項如果違反這個因記載事項的話的條款是無效的"},{"start":7566.368,"end":7582.557,"text":"所以中央主管機關公告介紹沒有記載到地形化契約仍然構成契約的內容嗎這是我們前面已經跟大家講的地形化契約因記載不得記載事項為什麼那麼的重要因為你抵觸它就無效你沒寫你還是要視為你有寫"},{"start":7583.758,"end":7604.176,"text":"所以這個條款他訂了這個東西說我有保留的權利因為抵觸了這個應期的事項第三條所以認為這個規定是無效那即使他說無法退票但是根據規定你是可以退票的所以我們就把這個東西當作垃圾我們不要看他的規定我們直接去試用這個議文表演票券定型化企業應期的事項"},{"start":7605.257,"end":7626.215,"text":"所以這是一個案例啦大家可能不會去看演唱會 不會去看韓團但是大家都有機會適用到 印記載不得交的事項所以這是一個實際上可能性好 聽完給大家參考再來 我們來用很趕的時間來講一些我們現在網路的交易 常常會有的問題大家都有聽過 七日建廠期這個東西嗎"},{"start":7629.107,"end":7639.031,"text":"大家知道七日鑑賞期是什麼嗎?我今天去超市買一杯水或是買一個東西後來我不想要了我可以主張鑑賞期嗎?為什麼十幾天變不行?"},{"start":7649.482,"end":7676.509,"text":"很棒的規定很棒的講法很棒的講法好所以這是怎麼樣的規定呢好我們先來看我們講一個案例今天這個小美啊跟男友去婚嫁他們去婚紗展那去婚紗展的時候就有人推銷他們這個婚紗嘛價值20萬然後結果呢他們就現場付了訂金結果他們回家上網查了發現並沒有比划算啊他要求去解約請問他們可以主張這個見賞期嗎他們是去婚紗展的時候"},{"start":7679.528,"end":7705.362,"text":"應該不行嘛其實這個規定是規定在哪裡我們這個東西叫做通訊交易或訪問交易所以只有所謂的通訊交易或訪問交易的消費者才可以在收受商品或交易服務的7日內以退回商品或書面通知的方式解除其緣通訊交易這個東西在修法前叫做郵購買賣"},{"start":7706.963,"end":7728.576,"text":"他很懷念我們小時候小學的時候都有遊購的什麼比蕭寶寶年輕的同仁可能就不知道什麼是遊購買賣了像我們這種比蕭寶寶年老的朋友就比較會知道但是因為現在後來他就沒有在遊購了嘛所以我們就會叫做通訊買賣所有的網拍電視購物只要不是你實體看到這個東西而決定要買的全部都是所謂的"},{"start":7729.577,"end":7730.097,"text":"通訊交易訪問交易"},{"start":7746.162,"end":7773.087,"text":"這個東西呢因為你在購買的時候你沒有辦法實際上看到這個商品沒有辦法實際上體驗到這個服務所以呢你在買跟體驗到服務的七天內你可以要求要解除契約然後你是不用說明理由的不用負擔任何的對價喔但這個東西有例外這個例外是行政院訂的好 而且呢我們在這個解約呢是以一個發出的主意是什麼意思呢在我在七天內我把這個東西寄出去了"},{"start":7773.467,"end":7797.791,"text":"或是我已經跟你說 我要退 我要解除契約 就有效這個東西叫發出主意因為我們民法裡面有發出主意跟送達主意這個差別會差別在哪裡差別在 像上禮拜如果大家是嘉義高雄的人你禮拜二跟人家說 我要退那你把那個東西寄出去了"},{"start":7799.738,"end":7818.931,"text":"實際上送到有可能是什麼時候有可能是禮拜一或禮拜二了嘛因為三四五都放假六日是六日對不對那你可能就過了五天六天了嘛所以呢我們在很多民法或是一般的規定我們都是以送達就我跟你講說你七天的期間你都是七天內要送達到對方這個才會有效"},{"start":7819.631,"end":7832.683,"text":"可是在消費保護法我們為了保護消費者我們是要發出我禮拜二只要跟你說我要退貨什麼之類的我不管你哪一天送到我的退貨就已經發生效力這個是發出主意但是他"},{"start":7834.94,"end":7851.117,"text":"通訊交易就是指以廣播電視、電話傳真、行動報紙、雜誌、網際網路傳單或其他類似的方法在消費者沒有辦法檢視商品服務下而訂立的契約訪問交易就是接近者沒有經過邀約跟消費者在居住所、工作所、公共場所訂立的契約這個叫做訪問交易"},{"start":7855.642,"end":7868.402,"text":"我們消費者去婚紗展的大型展覽如果沒有經過邀約而前往﹐不符合訪問交易定義﹐不得主張猶豫期間因為我們是去婚紗展"},{"start":7870.037,"end":7897.671,"text":"今天不是婚紗業者來訪問我是我去訪問婚紗業者我去看展 我去下訂所以他並不符合所謂的訪問交易所以這個是不能主張猶豫期間的當然如果消費者參與的展覽跟簽訂企業額外有差異的時候可以例外主張消保法第19條的猶豫期間例如說你在電腦展發現有人在推銷海外旅遊就是跟我去那個展覽的情況不一樣"},{"start":7899.313,"end":7899.333,"text":"端"},{"start":7900.763,"end":7929.601,"text":"會覺得這個會很罕見嗎?我覺得台灣現在的展覽都有點掛羊頭賣狗肉啦因為像我事務所在那個市貿旁邊嘛我市貿旁邊常常就會有那種展覽嘛就像我之前有去旅遊展阿就我去旅遊展就我發現有一區都在賣一些健康食品跟草藥的他會打著說我們台灣當地特有產品或農產品的名義但其實都是賣一些健康食品跟那種草藥的或是說我去書展就我去書展之後發現我最想買的東西是地球椅"},{"start":7930.481,"end":7941.3,"text":"我覺得地球儀看起來蠻厲害的像這種東西就是你去你這個展覽他賣的東西跟展覽名稱不一樣我們認為可以例外主張不然原則上展覽是不行的"},{"start":7944.491,"end":7968.46,"text":"還有10分鐘我們這邊有一個例子大家可以講所謂通訊交易跟訪問交易的例外有一個小民他就在網路上買了這些東西然後他會想要主張退貨那請問這些東西是每一個都可以主張退貨嗎這個涉及到什麼涉及到我們有一個通訊交易解除權合理例外情勢適用準則的第二條"},{"start":7969.78,"end":7995.195,"text":"雖然我們不是從網路上買了任何的東西我們都可以主張退貨喔另外是說在有這些情況底下我們是不能主張退貨的好舉例而言請問任天堂Switch遊戲主機我買了之後我七天內可以要求退貨嗎?"},{"start":7996.735,"end":7997.936,"text":"51 pages"},{"start":8018.611,"end":8031.208,"text":"遊戲軟體是什麼是第二條第一項第四款經消費者拆封之影音軟體或電腦軟體所以軟體拆封之後是不能退的喔好 那月刊雜誌可以嗎"},{"start":8032.608,"end":8033.268,"text":"知名品牌的皮包是可以的"},{"start":8050.399,"end":8078.133,"text":"那北海道大干貝 可以要求退貨嗎?不行 為什麼?因為第一款 易於腐敗 保存期限較短或節約時就預期一個生鮮類的產品或是食物 可能都會適用到這一款再來 特別訂做易用小黃名稱的戒指 可以嗎?為什麼?因為它有一個第二款依消費者要求所謂的客製化給付"},{"start":8079.807,"end":8106.092,"text":"所以這件事也是不行的所以大家有看到那是什麼iPad阿或是什麼有些問你說你要不要在上面刻自己的名字因為有時候你刻下去你就不能退貨囉你大家要注意雖然我這次訂我這次看Apple官網他有特別說你刻了還是可以退貨但是這個是Apple給那個消費者的優惠不然如果是其他的廠商你刻名字下去他可能就可以主張說這是刻字的話上面就不能退貨了所以大家要注意有時候那是一個服務但是某種程度也是綁定各位的一個義務"},{"start":8107.432,"end":8134.55,"text":"再來海外代購送來的名牌皮鞋這個有法院判決如果是海外代購因為代購商他不是製造商或經銷商嘛所以他會說例如說你下單我請他幫我買一個LV的皮包所以他才幫我去當地的LV的精品店買嘛買完之後再寄給我所以這個呢在法院判決認為代購商是所謂的克制化給付"},{"start":8135.39,"end":8150.351,"text":"所以大家注意喔如果他今天跟你講是代購然後你是抽過網路上下單或網路上買你要退貨他可以主張第二款的客製化肌膚他是為了你才去買這個東西的所以他可以說他不用退貨這個是有法院判決存在的"},{"start":8153.171,"end":8170.806,"text":"那再來有些網路賣家會說一經拆封就不能主張猶豫期間大家一定有看過嘛如果開封就不能主張猶豫期間了可是有些東西像一個iPad我不打開來我怎麼知道它是好的壞的對不對我一定要打開來看能不能正常開機能不能拍照能不能使用我才知道它是好的壞的嘛"},{"start":8172.816,"end":8185.205,"text":"所以消費法專案小組的會議有說所以消費法信息者規定說消費者如果是檢查的必要或不可規則的原因導致受理的商品有毀損滅市變更的話這個解除權是不消滅的"},{"start":8188.707,"end":8203.023,"text":"所以法院上規定消費者其實是有拆開包裝或使用商品但是是出於檢查的目的所以即使今天賣家有這樣子說你只要拆封你就不能用但是你跟他說"},{"start":8204.224,"end":8228.556,"text":"我拆封是為了檢查你東西是好的壞的但根據消保法的這個專案會議其實呢是可以主張還是可以主張退貨只是我真的把人家弄壞了對商品的減損或減損減少價值你要賠啦例如說我檢查的期間把它弄壞了我還是可以主張退貨只是它弄壞造成它的價值損失你就這個差價要去做損害賠償這是這樣子的規定好"},{"start":8232.896,"end":8250.396,"text":"這是標錯價的案例啦那其實現在大家還是 雖然很少但是還是有一些標錯價的案例嘛或是像大家常常 像我有追蹤一些那種機票達人之類的那種FB他就會跟你說某某地方出現BUG票什麼台北非美國的商務艙只要一萬塊之類的 對不對"},{"start":8252.577,"end":8267.366,"text":"那這種案例在早期有一些爭議可是在現代絕大多數的法院都會認為你們在網路上看到的標價他只是所謂邀約的引誘"},{"start":8268.746,"end":8293.678,"text":"什麼叫邀約的引誘就像是我們今天在立法院門口有人在發那種便當的傳單或是訂飲料的傳單嘛 對不對那個東西只是邀約的引誘例如說我今天看到一個便當傳單他寫雞腿便當80塊我打電話去跟他講說我要訂雞腿便當然後店家跟你說我們雞腿便當現在漲到100塊囉你可以主張說他只能用80塊賣你嗎"},{"start":8296.493,"end":8322.934,"text":"好像不行嗎?這個在明碼上那個叫邀約引用跟邀約那這個東西其實可以講三個小時對那我們簡單來講所以呢基本上現在的網路上法院的判決都會認為說欸我們在網路上看到的標價只是邀約的引用那必須要賣家實際上確定甚至出貨之後這個契約才會成立那其實絕大多數的法院他在下判決的時候他都是非難消費者啦"},{"start":8323.715,"end":8348.093,"text":"什麼意思他都會說他都會隱約跟你講說你們根本就知道這個東西標價有問題你們才下定的吧所以如果今天消費者可以明確的知道這個東西的標價是有問題的那法院就會傾向認為說這個賣家是不用履約的舉個例子來講像我們剛剛舉到那個戴爾案那個是20年前的案子他一個螢幕才賣5000塊"},{"start":8350.214,"end":8350.334,"text":"一台機車﹖"},{"start":8370.839,"end":8398.308,"text":"一重積十六萬他標成一萬六然後賣家去下定法院就跟你說你明明就知道這個東西是標錯價所以你是想故意利用這個來得利啦所以他就認為你這個其實是沒有辦法成立契約的啦所以這個是現在法院的見解所以基本上以現在我們如果遇到那種標錯價我們去下單想要要求業者履約什麼的去打官司基本上要申訴的機會是蠻低的"},{"start":8401.124,"end":8410.512,"text":"好 那這個跟大家解釋一下網路商城這些的差別時間的關係我就先跳過好 那"},{"start":8417.399,"end":8437.168,"text":"現在有很多網路遊戲的爭議我們剛剛有提到其實現在全台灣消費糾紛最多的就是網路遊戲的消費糾紛雖然大家可能不要覺得說好像網路遊戲現在只有成年人好像只有小朋友在玩而已像大家玩那什麼Candy Crush什麼之類的那都是網路遊戲嘛那不是有些人玩一玩還會去儲值什麼的"},{"start":8438.167,"end":8455.395,"text":"其實網路遊戲有些像我們這個案例有人去儲值某個網路遊戲買了10萬遊戲幣後來覺得無聊要求遊戲公司退還遊戲公司就主張說你這個是儲值不能退款那這樣子的規定是有效還是無效"},{"start":8456.435,"end":8478.94,"text":"其實網路遊戲有定型化欺人因記載跟不得記載事項所以在網路遊戲的這個層面它會規定說其實消費者可以隨時終止而企業經營者是應該要去退費的沒有用的這個費用都應該要退還所以這個是網路遊戲的例子一個更有趣的例子叫做直播平台"},{"start":8480.558,"end":8508.552,"text":"大家不是說像什麼E7啊或是什麼Twitch啊這些直播平台現在也是很紅嘛那這些直播平台呢會有一些所謂的大乾爹存在他們可能一儲值就是幾百萬一打賞就是幾十萬這個案例是一個實際上打到最高範圍的判決這個當事人呢這個蕭先生他是某一個直播組的大乾爹他都是幾十萬幾百萬在斗內給這個直播組但這個直播組後來什麼他跳平台了"},{"start":8509.392,"end":8537.007,"text":"他從一七這個平臺跳到其他的直播平臺那這個大乾爹在這個一七這個平臺儲值幾百萬就只是為了要打賞這個直播主嘛我就喜歡他他今天跳槽了我當然就沒有必要繼續在這個直播平臺繼續使用服務了嘛所以他就要求要退費結果一七其他就拒絕退費他就說阿因為我們是一個買賣關係你跟我買這些幣呢我是沒辦法退還的一審是判這個平臺勝訴喔理由是什麼"},{"start":8538.027,"end":8563.337,"text":"理由是說因為這種網路直播是沒有所謂的應記載跟不得記載事項的所以他不能像是網路遊戲一樣主張說這個業者一定要退費二審也是採照的見解結果最高法院的法官他就說我覺得網路直播跟打電動也差不多所以他就說我們這種網路直播也應該去適用所謂的網路遊戲應記載跟不得記載事項"},{"start":8567.899,"end":8592.621,"text":"所以這個案子呢 發回高院然後高院呢 就說 你看這個是一個遞言性商品 預付型不定期期限它屬於網路遊戲的方式所以我們看那些直播啊 打賞給那些人跟玩遊戲是一樣的喔這是台灣高層法院跟最高法院的見解所以我們以後看直播也可以說我們在打遊戲對 這是高層法院的見解所以呢 根據網路遊戲的這個因地理而不得之的事項"},{"start":8593.864,"end":8594.888,"text":"提供遊戲的服務商應該要給沒有用到的錢退費"},{"start":8599.315,"end":8600.355,"text":"那我們就講到這邊"},{"start":8629.507,"end":8638.253,"text":"謝謝陳律師專業級豐富的消保法案例實務分享然後謝謝那今天的課程就到這邊那請大家記得掃一下牆上的滿意度問卷調查謝謝大家參加"}]},"會議時間":"2024-07-30T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"破解消費糾紛的實用法律課（事由：破解消費糾紛的實用法律課）","委員發言時間":"14:15:00 - 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非常謝謝先介紹一下我們列席的貴賓我們今天陸委會歡迎李副主委歡迎我們交通部歡迎陳次長歡迎還有各位列席的官員大家早安 大家好"},{"start":4418.339,"end":4438.118,"text":"各位黨團幹部我們現在繼續把握有限的時間我們繼續協商進行國民黨團建議院會作成決議立即解除禁止人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客循小三通赴金馬澎等三個離島"},{"start":4441.542,"end":4458.63,"text":"現的旅遊觀光本案於五月十一日十三日經第一會期第十三次會議決定近乎二讀並由國民黨團負責召集協商本席應國民黨團請求進行本案首次協商針對我們本法案的內容先請國民黨團請說明"},{"start":4462.546,"end":4487.532,"text":"主席我想先進行一個會議詢問請問為什麼這個院長親自主持的協商這兩個相關部會陸委會及交通部都是由副首長參加請問這個我們陸委會主委跟我們交通部部長有什麼更重大的事情這個院長我們立法院院長親自主持的可以先說明一下嗎陸委會主委陸委會副主委請說一下你們主委"},{"start":4488.277,"end":4500.599,"text":"抱歉抱歉因為今天主委十點鐘有一個外賓所以外賓比立法院還重要嗎?因為那個是早就約大陸來的是嗎?入委會嘛外賓就是入委外賓哪裡來的外賓?"},{"start":4501.994,"end":4527.476,"text":"哪裏的外賓?金門縣喔?金門縣縣長喔?其他國家跟陸委會當然可以拜會,有比立法院重要嗎?不好意思,因為我們今天是九點四十開始那他是十點鐘,那個他早就約好的院長這個,他們有決策權嗎?副主委還有交通部"},{"start":4529.277,"end":4548.35,"text":"請交通部主席回答我跟委員報告一下我們部長今天呢上午是陪同總統然後視察這個氣象署視察對對對因為氣象署是我們交通部一個很重要的一個業務所以今天總統這個我稍微可以接受一點陪同總統而且時間剛好是十點十點 OK"},{"start":4551.592,"end":4570.586,"text":"陳宇峥委員的質詢,柯建民總統有話要講,請我們今天是草野協商,隨便問,就是三大政黨的立場表示展示當然他們屬於變動說明的角色,不過進一本題,我想這個原則大家都很清楚,我們會表現我們的立場"},{"start":4572.052,"end":4585.951,"text":"並不是說他們立場怎麼樣會改變我們就是大家共同決議 不行就改變會改變我的想法 不會改變你會改變我我不敢做出這樣的期待啦 大家說今天就開始不是啊 這是沒準中啊 欸 院長主持捏"},{"start":4586.852,"end":4591.994,"text":"主責機關的部長一定到嘛你說其他機關可能是次長來但是主責機關的部長一定到啊這最基本原則啊立法院的尊嚴可以這樣子嗎"},{"start":4614.484,"end":4615.906,"text":"今天不只是對立法院面子民進黨民眾黨國民黨團的面子"},{"start":4630.421,"end":4638.725,"text":"而且這本來就是我們討論事情本來就應該啊難道民進黨團可以接受這樣子嗎民進黨團已經討論在你可以接受這樣子嗎總召大小生什麼東西啊我沒有大小生我是譴責一下我邀請我們執政黨團總召譴責一下這樣的行為吧譴責一下這種不尊重立法院的行為"},{"start":4658.134,"end":4672.287,"text":"林國成委員舉手請表達意見我們還是要建議院長主持的會議其實首長理應一定要到 不到一定要召會院長"},{"start":4673.968,"end":4701.437,"text":"立法院經驗的問題但是因為既然今天啊有些陪了總統有些那個那確實是有要務但是還是要召會所以我要請教我們院長有沒有召會你如果沒有的話我還是建議啦齁我還是建議以後真的院長主持會議首長一定要到這是一個禮數對立法院一個尊重好不好謝謝我們傅坤祺總召舉手請發言"},{"start":4709.179,"end":4731.874,"text":"謝謝院長這幾天的辛勞我想這個會期大家不管風風火火走到會期的最後一天大家也在摸索互相認識但是最重要就是國會殿堂要有最基本的一個尊嚴所以對於這麼重要的一個草以協商而且各政黨代表都在這裡"},{"start":4733.55,"end":4753.933,"text":"我想匯齊到7月16日是我們兩三個月就已經訂好的事情行政院的各部會包括院長在內包括總統在內都知道說這幾天是密集的草以協商對不管是國家重大法案還是民生建設都是在這幾天要做成決定"},{"start":4755.694,"end":4775.887,"text":"希望是非常和諧的、理性的討論,行政單位也能提出確實的意見,讓大家起來探討,作成最後的決議。所以,比較好奇的就是,明知道今天是7月16日會期最後一天,而且有重要的協商,我相信賴希德總統一定會有這個雅量,"},{"start":4777.047,"end":4802.97,"text":"去看什麼重大的建設由院長副院長陪同行政院院長副院長陪同或是部會的次長陪同他大可不必啊這個部長必須要在這裡啊必須要來這裡啊來做一個說明的時候啊反而選擇退出而且剛剛我最不能接受的是大家一起在請教"},{"start":4805.285,"end":4828.841,"text":"這個院長還院長就是這些部會首長請假的時候我們的會議主席院長知不知道看起來剛剛院長的表情是並不知道這個事情所以我覺得柯總召這個事情大家就要討論一下因為不管是議長剛才講得很清楚不然應該要跟院長請個假這是基本禮貌嘛所以柯總召"},{"start":4832.643,"end":4854.354,"text":"所以現在我要特別強調執政是大家輪來輪去但是在國會不管哪一個黨大家要互相收驚民主公家的因為國會並沒有這麼小所以國會小的話柯總召也變得很小我們都很小 對不對所以這個事情因為我們代表百分之百的民意各政黨"},{"start":4855.234,"end":4868.079,"text":"所以今天如果說我們本院、立法院、韓院長都不知道說為什麼這幾位部會所長沒有來也沒有跟院長請假這是不應該的這是不應該的因為大家一直維持我們和諧的氣氛"},{"start":4872.961,"end":4874.842,"text":"柯總召對於兩位部長沒有來你意思表達讓我們聽一下好不好"},{"start":4888.666,"end":4908.759,"text":"我剛才也講很清楚立法院在草案期間第一個各位首長都要來因為對他的重要法案的預算很重要所以每個會期到最後由於這個時候是這種時刻各位首長一定知道那這個可能有糾葛他要來如何解釋當然捷運潛在我們所以我們捷運潛在我們"},{"start":4912.461,"end":4928.445,"text":"所以母來一定要給院長請個假這是一定的啊你不要譴責他噢沒有意見這個慣例早就堅持在先了嘛啊今天我不知道他們為什麼沒有放這種錯誤也是死死不應啦我也不知道啦"},{"start":4930.589,"end":4959.41,"text":"沒有啦 我不知道他有沒有 院長請假謝謝 謝謝謝謝 麻煩兩位次長回去以後轉達那我們也會責成我們秘書長這邊所有以後才有的協商議事處這邊會通知我們正式的部長要到臨現場表達對立法院的尊重以及對自己部門部的尊重好 現在我們繼續回到主題請國民黨團請說明這次我們提案開放整個觀光的限制請說明"},{"start":4962.095,"end":4988.412,"text":"這個大家都知道這個之前交通部宣布這個禁團令就今年二月以前嘛本來是選舉那個時候大家都期待說尤其國內的這個觀光業者都抱著滿心期待希望是說在這個新的總統上任以後那這個當初也曾經一度說要開放開放就是說就是讓這個兩個部分觀光旅遊分成兩個部分"},{"start":4990.794,"end":5013.333,"text":"跟大陸相關的部分 一個是往大陸去 一個是迎接客人來有關出國的部分 本來觀光業者 而且本來你們的部裡面的意見也是說要開放的沒有想到莫名其妙突然宣布到六月份 就是說六月份以前的都是可以的你招攬過什麼都是可以 但六月份以後不行"},{"start":5014.794,"end":5030.582,"text":"你們這樣子不行雖然現在我們來講一個觀光業的實況實際上大家都是比如說可能就是到大陸去然後賞客去那邊可能集結成團但是這個算是造成觀光業者的這樣的操作是造成國人赴外旅遊的一種這種"},{"start":5033.143,"end":5059.838,"text":"不安全或以法律上來講保障變少事實上不管是國人出外去觀光或者我們歡迎客人不管從世界各地哪裡來觀光都是對觀光部尤其是觀光署來講對交通部觀光署來講都是很正面性我們現在的觀光人口一直沒有辦法上升我前幾個禮拜去國內一個知名的景區有一個觀光飯店的業者跟我算是"},{"start":5060.658,"end":5081.517,"text":"幾乎快要枯樹他說他經營觀光飯店他經營飯店五十五年來從疫情到現在這一段時間是最慘的時候是最艱難的時候這是這個國內在宜蘭那個地方他說從來沒有見過這麼慘的時候因為客人不足尤其現在國旅最近開放大部分大家都出國去但是"},{"start":5082.398,"end":5086.379,"text":"沒有客人進來 如果入客當然幫助很大所以說這個希望趕快來開放第二個我講我們金馬澎尤其我們金門基我們金門基真的是觀光產業現在真的是非常非常的慘不要說小三通前幾年因為疫情期間沒有開放那個時候我們每一年損失二三十億台幣就相當一億美金的觀光產值"},{"start":5107.085,"end":5111.248,"text":"議會我們還期待觀光可以開始欣欣向榮臺灣的旅客過來、大陸旅客可以過來恢復以前、以往這個日子的時候沒有想到現在還沒有辦法迎來這樣的日子各個產業連動勢的整個金門地區都落入這個所有的產業都落入那個愁雲慘霧的情況所以為了民生經濟考量我想請求這個我想請這個當然民黨的委員在這裡我們這邊也有委員也了解金門的情形"},{"start":5138.585,"end":5166.251,"text":"針對第一個就是解除禁止人民赴大陸觀光之限制就是所謂大家俗稱那個禁團令我想國內觀光業者也是呼籲再三這個部分我想說這個請大家一起來做成決議讓交通那個相關部門來這個來這個遵守第二個開放大陸觀光客循小三通赴金馬澎三個離島觀光我想這個部分上個禮拜上個月上個禮拜吧那個馬祖已經有踩限團了嘛"},{"start":5167.031,"end":5186.393,"text":"那所以基本經濟是還沒有那當然大陸這邊也有一些考量但這個我也會去push那重點是說我們這邊是不是在兩岸關係如此緊繃的時候我們雖然已經表示開放了所以我想這個應該是已經表示是贊成的意思立委會應該也是表示贊成的意思"},{"start":5186.653,"end":5213.614,"text":"但是我覺得還是應該做一個比較嚴正的聲明公開的說明我想最近慢慢從旅展方面這個旅展有讓大陸的相關的文旅廳的相關人過來然後還有這個7月20號即將進行的這個金夏永渡也有讓一些福建省體育局的人過來我想這是初步的慢慢釋出善意那如果我們更大幅度的就不是大幅度就是把你的政策立場我今天為什麼主委沒有來就是因為主委他事實上比較"},{"start":5214.295,"end":5233.111,"text":"比較了解整個政策副主委也是很熟悉啦我也不能說他不熟悉但是主委畢竟是做決策的人那可以今天可以在這裡更清楚的說明讓這個相關的報導知道說我們這邊事實上一直有在四處善意我想這個對兩岸的往來會是一件非常正面的事情以上所以這個決議我也請這個民進黨團還有民眾黨團一同支持謝謝"},{"start":5238.338,"end":5241.641,"text":"謝謝接下來柯建民總召發言然後請林國成委員請準備"},{"start":5268.799,"end":5287.977,"text":"我們現在要講原因啦我整天一直要促成開放嘛但是你要想一想到底為什麼觀光客不來嘛要講原因大家要比較清楚嘛當然第一個我們不希望說是本末倒置啦這是台中中國的問題啊因為派人來你叫人"},{"start":5290.498,"end":5308.277,"text":"我們沒有反對他,他來採信以後也沒有回應啊我們還辦,這個月還辦觀光旅遊展嘛,我們還十天辦到十五號所以今天我們要講這個原因是什麼請問大家都知道,那最近的歧視也很窮峻"},{"start":5309.694,"end":5338.551,"text":"二十一號以後有所謂的這個審度審視台獨的二十二條意見那已經變成橙色的 橙燈的嘛 橙色的燈號大家敢不敢啊這個這個那那國家那國家法律上國家的作為上當然要給人民很多就一些一些警示或是建議看法我這個話讓這個是國家案件上必須考慮考慮的"},{"start":5339.551,"end":5359.47,"text":"那我們今天來講這個是應該是滾動式檢討不是說以我們金門開放就好你咱們想想看大陸他們對我們的開放從2019年8月1號開始大陸對於個人旅遊全部禁止來台灣對不對我想你也沒有活了對金門是開放的聽我講完嘛"},{"start":5364.164,"end":5369.095,"text":"好,那到我們女女傳的部分齁"},{"start":5371.894,"end":5397.933,"text":"文理部從七年一月到現在全部禁止新聞過來第一要看一方面的罪犯我們一方面的罪犯我們一方面的罪犯分析錯過零去大陸回來的時間得到什麼得到福建道平台福建道馬祖那個根本一點用處都沒有而平台是高度高度那個"},{"start":5399.674,"end":5412.933,"text":"戰略議會所以他們一直跟我們做統戰你都不思考這個問題我們剛才講過我們在今年五月底以前有存成的部分全部給他出完"},{"start":5415.375,"end":5438.653,"text":"已經2月開始到3月到5月之間已經成團了全部給他出去但是後面我們就不再處理了因為他們對我們是相當敵意 都那麼緊嘛現在他要求我們這邊要開 這不對吧所以應該這個 要再想這個原因啦 要想清楚那我比較"},{"start":5440.274,"end":5462.971,"text":"大家想說這個整個政策方向是誰何以自知嘛這萬般有罪是罪在中國不是罪在我們啊所以你應該把這顛倒要建議大陸來開放不是我們這邊開放邏輯上不要搞錯而且一環一個決議案可以來主導國家政策我不認為有這樣的呈現這是總統之權"},{"start":5468.899,"end":5469.019,"text":"請林國成委員發言"},{"start":5491.63,"end":5495.094,"text":"我想本黨很樂見三黨坐下來談這些敏感的問題但是第一個離島的觀光確實是三個離島經濟主要來源的收入"},{"start":5514.498,"end":5541.387,"text":"這一點議政委員所講的確確實實是這樣但是當然也要考慮到這些兩岸國安之問題這個基本上我也是支持但是我在看兩岸到底的政策像現在剛剛柯總召所講的如果堅持今天立法院沒有提出這些開頭那"},{"start":5543.207,"end":5556.043,"text":"國安他怎麼會去做參考跟考慮所以我個人還有我們黨裡面兩岸和平這些是我們追求所以這些開放離島第一 離島的東西"},{"start":5559.338,"end":5575.35,"text":"其實國安的問題是減少的那如果我們今天把離島把它開放那我認為這個部分會有兩岸和平的契機所以我們本黨啊站在本黨的立場第一"},{"start":5576.03,"end":5594.479,"text":"觀光提升是有必要第二我們還是蠻希望未來兩岸和平那更重要所以我是覺得先拋出橄欖枝去那對岸不來那是你的事但是我的善意已經先表達所以我認為這個案子"},{"start":5597.1,"end":5613.525,"text":"應該大家坐下來好好談怎麼樣把它開端這樣的話兩岸的和平契機是有的所以本黨支持這個案子大家要好好來談支持這個案子謝謝林國成委員接下來請洪森漢委員請發言"},{"start":5616.203,"end":5644.476,"text":"好我想其實我想各政黨都支持這個擴大觀光的觀光經濟這都沒有問題但我覺得我自己也希望這個行政部門可以說明一下現在各國都面對這個去中國的旅遊風險的問題這其實不是只是台灣面對而已並不是只是陸委會來公布成登的警示以下是幾個近期這個民主國家"},{"start":5645.396,"end":5670.767,"text":"都提供了警示我念一下給大家聽美國在2023年的時候其實就說了因為中國的國安法所以提醒非必要不要前往這是美國再來韓國的國情院近期也發出旅遊警示警示從7月1號起入境中國可能被任意檢查手及任意拘捕這是韓國"},{"start":5673.1,"end":5699.974,"text":"愛爾蘭在5月16日發出警告提醒中國當局可能會對個人實施出境禁令阻止他們離開該國並提醒此類禁令與拘捕或禁令不同是中國法律程序的一部分可能持續數月或更長時間加拿大政府在6月26日更新它的旅遊建議提醒國人去中國會有任意執行當地法律的風險請在中國保持高度謹慎"},{"start":5701.215,"end":5729.886,"text":"澳洲的部分是在7月1號更新旅遊提醒建議澳洲人民要在中國保持高度謹慎並告知中國當局恐以危害國家安全為由拘捕外國人英國政府也一樣提醒民眾要注意中國政府跟國家安全法我要說的事情是這不是只針對台灣這不是只針對民進黨執政的政府因為民進黨並沒有在剛剛上述這些民主國家都執政"},{"start":5731.633,"end":5739.719,"text":"但是對於這些國際上面的每一個民主國家都提高了對中國附中旅遊的警示都在提醒"},{"start":5741.434,"end":5766.994,"text":"會有被任意拘捕檢查手機的安全的問題我自己想問第一個我也想請教行政部門我們對這個部分我們目前因應的作為是什麼第二個我知道今天這來的檔當然我覺得也是出於一個好意希望能夠解除這個禁團令但是一樣還是面對這個風險那大家對這個風險的看法是什麼這不是只是台灣比如說你們換一個政黨執政就沒了沒有這些國家不是都民黨執政那大家都面對這些問題那大家的看法是什麼"},{"start":5771.994,"end":5781.628,"text":"我們會不會現在讓更多的國人到中國去旅遊反而製造了大家更大的安全上面的風險這事情大家怎麼面對 怎麼處理這個問題好 謝謝"},{"start":5785.809,"end":5787.431,"text":"兩岸恢復觀光交流我想只要在安全無虞在彼此善意友善的狀況之下大家都樂見"},{"start":5808.967,"end":5820.778,"text":"這段時間以來我們就用具體的數字來看一看這個input跟output在臺灣赴陸或是陸方來臺灣的一些實質的觀光人數如果從2023年的話臺灣到中國有176萬人"},{"start":5825.723,"end":5841.815,"text":"但是中國來到台灣只有二十二點六萬人這是去年如果以今年一到六月上半年的統計台灣復入到中國的超過一百萬人次而中方的來到台灣只有十五萬所以數字會說話"},{"start":5843.576,"end":5864.274,"text":"就開放性、就彼此的互通、input output我想這是一個很大的懸殊的差異所以問題在哪一方其實用數字來凸顯也非常清楚那第二個如果說聚焦在郁真委員非常關心的這個離島小三通、金馬澎的部分"},{"start":5864.995,"end":5891.126,"text":"我想也是可以把一些實質的做法在這裡也再還原一下如果說中國依小三通的相關辦法申請到金馬來旅行那原本就是包括在一百一十二年八月政府就已經公布的我想郁真很清楚恢復兩岸觀光的規劃方案只要陸方開放就可以馬上做這第一件事情聚焦在臺灣對於開放小三通到金馬澎這個三"},{"start":5892.886,"end":5919.989,"text":"離島的觀光旅遊這第一件事情我們做了是在威挺中方嘛第二個依據中國文旅部一百一十三年四月二十八剛公佈的內容僅率先恢復福建到馬祖嘛但是也沒有到金門嘛所以說如果說陸方對於到金門旅遊的障礙在誰陸方啊他為什麼沒有開放他只開放到馬祖嘛我想玉珍你一直點頭你也很清楚嘛"},{"start":5920.609,"end":5936.321,"text":"第三個就是剛剛來的那個彩線團對不對福州市旅遊協會到馬祖的這個彩線團是今年六月底已經完成了OK 如果他們彩線完對於我們的所有觀光台灣確實是可以吸引他們來的話只要他們"},{"start":5937.542,"end":5958.987,"text":"開放那馬上就可以專案審查我想我們陸委會政府的這個態度是非常的清楚所以聚焦在今天這個提案的本題就是尋小三通、金馬澎、三離島觀光的部分其實聚焦也可以看得出來我們是open的只要陸方ok其實就可以達到所以說這個橄欖枝"},{"start":5961.408,"end":5976.522,"text":"我想臺灣政府不是橄欖枝而已啦等那橄欖樹可能都背在肩上扛出來了啦所以這個東西路方這個對等在等對方的回應而不是只對自己臺灣政府來給予很多的壓力跟這個要求"},{"start":5977.795,"end":6002.017,"text":"當然我們要講剛申瀚委員說的時機對不對大家要想想這個時機對不對長期以來兩岸的互動觀光友善的狀況之下安全平等的前提之下這是OK的可是現在這個時機中國公布了懲毒二十二條的這個時機之下剛宏委員講了很多美國、英國、澳洲、愛爾蘭、韓國"},{"start":6005.1,"end":6031.298,"text":"這國際都在限制．或者是對於國人赴中國旅行．提出很多的示警作為．的這個當下．如果台灣的國會．就在這個當下．做了這個決議．去要求我們的自己的政府．去都開放．那我們除了讓陸方覺得說．你台灣都不怕很好．我這成都二十二條．剛剛好而已．"},{"start":6032.259,"end":6049.794,"text":"這是第一個對國內造成我們對國人的心理狀態示警還是你是鼓勵大家去你是希望大家安全的前提盡量少去還是因為國會了做成這個決議就是鼓勵大家趕快去這對於國內的視聽是一個混淆第二個對於國際的視聽更是一個錯誤的訊息的傳達"},{"start":6053.615,"end":6067.759,"text":"對於中國對於台灣端出這樣成都二十二條對台灣人的安全造成很大疑慮的當下我們的國會做出這個決議反其道而行好像是附和呼應中國這個給"},{"start":6070.06,"end":6087.63,"text":"國際社會錯誤的訊息我覺得這個更為嚴重我們不可不慎因為這是一個國會的決議民進黨作為國會的51席我們對於這個覺得非常難以接受在這個所以它不是一個good timing它是一個bad timing最後國安問題"},{"start":6089.051,"end":6106.624,"text":"好 剛剛柯總長也講了這涉及國安體系的綜合評估這也涉及行政的職權甚至涉及總統的權利啦我們用一個決議的方式立院決議就要求這樣做我覺得這個層面上也是要多多的考量的謝謝吳司長的發言麻煩請陸委會李副主委發言表達意見 然後請交通部準備"},{"start":6116.806,"end":6143.901,"text":"院長、各位委員陸委會請就剛剛幾位委員提到的一些事項來做說明首先是入客來台觀光的部分其實總統520的就職演說有提到先重啟雙邊對等的觀光旅遊開始要共同追求兩岸的和平共榮所以那個時候我們政府就有把恢復兩岸觀光旅遊列為推動兩岸交流的一個很重要的工作"},{"start":6144.861,"end":6172.491,"text":"那這個部分剛剛幾位委員也有提到其實消防部跟陸委會在去年八月就已經有對外公布這個兩岸團體旅遊恢復的一個規劃而且在去年九月我們就做好了相關準備也就是等陸方來相對開放我們就可以來落實那同時為了這個促成陸客到金馬來觀光所以各位也有提到我們最近也做了很多努力包括開放讓"},{"start":6174.771,"end":6179.673,"text":"馬祖彩線團、夏季旅展、金夏永渡等對於陸方關切的議題我們也都積極處理當中在這些之後我們也有對外去說彩線團之後我們很歡迎陸方趕快有陸客提出"},{"start":6198.14,"end":6212.93,"text":"馬祖金門的旅行申請我們會依程序來專案審查所以目前入客沒有辦法到金門馬祖或者是台灣來觀光旅遊這個部分的障礙的確是在中國方面"},{"start":6213.81,"end":6238.147,"text":"那第二個部分我們要說明就是剛剛也有委員提到就是目前整個兩岸情勢是真的是比較複雜而且嚴峻那尤其中共對我們是採取一個複合式的威脅那他也公布了一系列的國安法規那當然這在國際間又引起了一些關注又發布了旅遊警示那我們是在今年6月21號"},{"start":6240.729,"end":6255.516,"text":"中國發布了審讀二十二條意見之後陸委會這邊就覺得國人到大陸去旅遊的風險還有人身安全的風險在提高所以我們就在六月二十七號把附錄"},{"start":6257.117,"end":6277.877,"text":"的這個旅遊警示燈號提高為橙色那這個橙色的意思是要提醒國人在行前要審慎評估去大陸的必要性那當然這個時候如果我們要把這個所有的國人組團赴陸的限制通通都解除那其實它就有一個訊號是告訴國人說您去大陸旅遊其實"},{"start":6281.921,"end":6303.313,"text":"是安心的所以這就會誤導國人對於目前他去赴陸會有人身安全、旅遊風險的這種狀況會誤導他讓他失去警覺那同時也會對國際社會釋放出一個錯誤的訊息所以我們是覺得當前我們這個旅遊的警示是不應該來做一個調整"},{"start":6305.214,"end":6322.081,"text":"那剛剛也有提到整個兩岸目前的旅遊開放其實是不對等的那其實我們從來就沒有禁止國人到大陸去個人旅遊或是他去參加團體來旅遊但是陸方他是基於政治理由在"},{"start":6323.502,"end":6337.829,"text":"2019年8月就禁止入客來台所謂的個人遊就自由行所以到去年已經有176萬人次去大陸了那到今年的1到6月以後超過100萬人次的國人到大陸去"},{"start":6338.949,"end":6362.816,"text":"在旅行社攬客組團的部分．交通部也在今年的二月七號．有發布一個函令．已經招攬的旅行團．可以在三月一號．到五月三十一號去大陸．行政院的五月三十號．院會之後．交通部有宣布六月一號前．已經規劃的旅行團．也可以繼續去附入．後續相似情形來滾動檢討．"},{"start":6364.857,"end":6382.728,"text":"但是路芳在疫情之後也就是從2023年1月到現在他們對於他們的組團社可以帶團到境外去旅遊的部分的國家有138個還有包括港澳但是就是沒有包括台灣所以到目前為止"},{"start":6384.469,"end":6405.017,"text":"來臺觀光的入客人數是零所以兩岸的旅遊是呈現一個相當的不對等所以我們覺得在這個時候這樣的一個決議的確是會牽涉到一些國安的問題那也涉及到兩岸的互動過去都是一直由國安部門跟行政部門共同來處理的"},{"start":6407.039,"end":6414.751,"text":"我們希望未來還是會在整個因應兩岸整體的情勢而且考量國家整體的利益我們來加以滾動的檢討"},{"start":6422.042,"end":6443.278,"text":"好 院長各位委員那交通部現在就這個議題來做以下的一個說明首先還是一樣這個應該是跟陸委會是一致的立場也是總統的就職演說已經特別提到兩岸可以先從重啟雙邊對等觀光開始我想這是一個整體政府的一個立場"},{"start":6444.099,"end":6471.281,"text":"那對於入客我們國人復入的這樣的旅行團的一個期待其實在這個復入旅行社復入我們本來是規劃在今年的這個5月31號指那是考量有一定的數量的旅行團未能於5月底成行然後所以呢為維護這個旅客及旅行業者權利"},{"start":6471.941,"end":6498.171,"text":"所以我們在這個旅行社特別強調旅行社在今年的二月二日前已經成團或已經規劃組團的在六月一號以前仍然可以出團所以意思就是說到目前這還是國人赴大陸組團的方式還是可以用這樣的一個方式但是以後就是不可以再招攬出團那我們的了解到目前為止這個"},{"start":6500.272,"end":6520.491,"text":"三到五月出去的旅行人透過組團大概有十一萬人次那六月呢剛才講在以前規劃六月出團的大概有一點一萬人所以說這樣的人次還是繼續有在這個出團那接下來要說明的就是說剛才這個副主委也特別提到"},{"start":6521.452,"end":6545.591,"text":"兩岸的這樣的一個旅遊恢復健康有序的交流一向是政府的一個政策但是有關入客來台觀光的部分就試設這個大陸事務這個整體的一個政策跟評估跟規劃所以為了確保兩岸健康有序的一個恢復交流我們交通部會配合相關的政策辦理相關的事宜就適時來滾動檢討相關的政策讓這個"},{"start":6550.514,"end":6568.489,"text":"兩岸的觀光業者獲得最大的利益循序推動兩岸恢復民間的一個交流我想這是交通部對這個案子的一個立場剛才洪珊漢委員特別提到旅遊警訊發布的時候相關我想旅遊警訊是陸委會在今年的6月27號發布"},{"start":6571.011,"end":6595.727,"text":"入港澳的旅遊的陳設警示其實代表的意義是避免非必要的旅行所以這樣的一個警示發布了之後交通部跟觀光署曾經多次的向旅行業者或國人特別提醒非必要的話要考慮到大陸旅遊非必要"},{"start":6596.447,"end":6601.689,"text":"要避免前往．要考慮自身的安全．要考慮目前赴大陸旅遊．有一定的風險"},{"start":6620.804,"end":6644.964,"text":"我想我們今天這個提案國民黨團提出來是一個民生議題但是我們看到這個民進黨團還有相關的單位都是在用政治來回答不過我們還是讓它回歸民生議題來討論然後來聚焦到底大家現在好像因為民進黨團說的都非常好聽這跟昨天健保的點子很像我們非常支持醫生醫療產業但是健保點子絕對不能給他們保障"},{"start":6648.827,"end":6676.17,"text":"我們非常支持醫療觀光的業者但是我們絕對要把他限制起來他那裡不能去,這裡不能來非常的矛盾不過我還說幾點這個民黨團對這個對這個整個兩岸之間的這個有關的一些往來的不了解而且說出了道國為因的這個說法2019年8月1日剛剛柯總召說大陸全面禁止自由行不好意思我告訴您2019年8月2日全面禁止自由行後來事實上也是從8月1日金馬澎都是開放的"},{"start":6676.61,"end":6697.958,"text":"大陸旅客赴金馬澎是開放的這個您可能不了解所以我們今天特別提出為什麼要優先開放大陸觀光小三通到金馬澎也是希望說在在兩岸這個關係還這麼不好的情況下禁止的情況下很禁止的情況下從金馬澎先做試點先行先試第二個 剛剛吳士堯委員說台灣赴"},{"start":6700.899,"end":6728.866,"text":"大陸是一百七十六萬大陸赴台灣是二十六萬你有說出一些數據所以你知道背景嗎你現在是盜國唯一因為大陸到台灣來因為台灣沒有開放嘛中華民國沒有開放讓中國大陸人民進來台灣嘛這之前我們爭取相同久從小三通的要重啟到後來這個旅遊團的靠因為就是沒有開放所以才來的人少嘛當初我們沒有什麼過去嘛所以我們去的人多嘛"},{"start":6729.566,"end":6753.268,"text":"這是因為政策關係造成這個結果你現在把這個結果拿來講說這個你又盜國為虞嘛好 接著剛剛洪聖諾委員說的這個什麼這個什麼這個區域很危險什麼的陸委會要發布什麼警戒是陸委會的職權我們陳社警我知道我不是介意他發布什麼東西而是你們抱著一種為之父為之母的想法來限制人民的行動"},{"start":6754.309,"end":6766.065,"text":"百姓自然會你發布了這個警戒百姓如果覺得很危險他自然就不會去百姓如果願意去他就是覺得可以我想請問交通部菲律賓是什麼警戒什麼顏色的自由嗎菲律賓我國國民赴菲律賓我想知道一下"},{"start":6773.638,"end":6793.436,"text":"是橙色的嗎?還是紅色的嗎?那是外交部在發布的你們不知道?好菲律賓前一陣子還發生幾個人在那邊進去馬上被槍決被那個行刑這個Sayonara的怎麼我們沒有看到相關的部會做相關的什麼警戒不過我也不是要討論這個我們在聚焦啦齁這個提案裡頭兩件事情一個就是"},{"start":6794.608,"end":6822.375,"text":"解除我國的人民赴大陸去觀光這個第一個那這個東西你們說沒有禁止吧你們現在是有禁止有禁團令這個差別是在哪裡我跟各位報告這個差別是說如果有這個禁團令我不知道教育部了不了解我想說反正大家剛委員說都可以自由去啊也沒有規定你不能去啊你想去你就去啊但是我跟觀光業有詢問的我也覺得很疑惑我說那反正每個人都可以去有什麼好這個禁團令不禁團令有影響嗎"},{"start":6823.295,"end":6849.713,"text":"業者這樣告訴我 或者說你們提出解決的方法業者告訴說 有這個禁團令 如果他們帶團出去的時候他們沒有辦法做什麼保險 是嗎沒有去辦法做什麼 我想了解這個事情就是說沒有辦法去申請什麼旅評險啊 什麼險 什麼險 這些類的如果去大陸 如果你沒有這個禁團令因為交通部規定說不能帶團出去那所以他們沒有辦法向業者提出業者沒有辦法向保險提出相關的保險那如果這個可以幫他們解決 你們禁不禁團其實影響不大"},{"start":6853.395,"end":6869.263,"text":"因為每個人本來就 現在本來我們開放金馬的人民就可以自由要去哪裡去哪裡沒有規定你哪裡不能去哪裡 不然是警戒而已嘛你想去你去嘛但是為什麼建團令業者會一直的我也是跟業者說反正你們想去就去 有什麼好在那邊爭執半天的反正也沒有限制你不能出去啊 對不對"},{"start":6871.104,"end":6878.769,"text":"那是不是有這件事情我想這個是一個真點啦我們在幫業者思考嘛對不對是不是說保險這個部分如果可以聽他們覺得他進團進團他有保險第二個這是過去的問題嘛過來的問題這句話應該也沒有什麼問題啊我想大家都支持你們剛剛不是有說福建陸委會有說福建的這個這個道馬族的彩線團來我們也歡迎他們到金馬澎來參觀嘛"},{"start":6894.74,"end":6911.508,"text":"這個你們也支持了嘛這個剛我聽起來也都是支持的民進黨也是支持他們到這邊來那這個決議最後半段也沒什麼問題啊差別是我都覺得有一點點差別是說陸委會剛剛說的是說專案許可什麼事情都要專案許可你是意圖造成特權的存在嗎"},{"start":6913.584,"end":6931.778,"text":"是不是有人講就成有沒有講就不成嗎我們要的就是自由競爭的市場就是說任何人就是都可以自由來那國安的我們來講到國安議題那如果照你們這樣子講法的話你們應該就把我們的這個颱風金馬整個海域鎖起來哪裡都不能去啊"},{"start":6932.478,"end":6932.578,"text":"請公決案．"},{"start":6948.288,"end":6966.973,"text":"回答那個議題,這個聚焦在哪裏?是,我跟委員報告一下,現在那個保險的,如果現在在出團的,合法出團的,他可以保旅責險。你們進團,他們就不能組團嘛,是不是?他們如果組團可以保險嗎?你就回答這樣就好。"},{"start":6967.955,"end":6991.314,"text":"那個 因為是一個禁團 所以沒有所謂禁團還要保險 整團保險的問題因為它是 那如果是你個人要去 本來 本來個人個人沒有關係 本來就是個人有保險的問題所以他們就不能保險嘛 對不對所以這個大原則是現在是在禁團令中是啦 所以因為禁團令 所以沒有辦法阻礙所以如果真的有國人要去 想去的話 他們也不能去保險造成旅遊業者操作上的困擾嘛"},{"start":6992.395,"end":7010.334,"text":"報告他去 因為進團他個人要去的時候他個人就有保險 團體要去呢他團體現在要進團嘛所以沒有不可以參團對嘛 所以這個進團的差別就在這裡不是像剛剛民進黨委員所說的每個人都可以自由去喔如果比如說我們有一個參鄉團要去拜拜那 那旅遊 要讓旅遊業者來辦啦不可能說每個人都自己去嘛"},{"start":7010.974,"end":7025.099,"text":"對吧 個人可以去啊 個人可以 那你就是在讓業者可以這樣 比如說要化名為案嘛就每個人用自己身份去 然後每個人自己去保險現在業者事實上就是要做手法你們沒有辦法保障到國人的安全你們了解嗎 實務上就是這個樣子"},{"start":7031.909,"end":7060.077,"text":"各位看一下憲法尊重條文第四條第四項總統為國家安全是國安事是總統事項所以以我來講沒有所謂優惠於憲法的問題優惠於總統之權的問題這很清楚嘛我們不要再直接在那邊打轉我真的要在這裡打轉事實上沒辦法講話 我很快不要再直接打轉然後假這個觀光自民"},{"start":7061.597,"end":7089.597,"text":"實在是配合中國統戰嘛 這個很清楚嘛這一點我們絕對是這種看法絕對絕對是堅持這種看法你沒有優惠啊 你可以稍微憲法就中委之前 你反正一個一個決議案就叫我們要怎麼做事情嘛今天要做什麼事情所以這一點不要導 另外不要導我的原因啊今天招人這個眼淫水 當中國大陸嘛你應該去建議中國大陸才對啊 怎麼建議我們的"},{"start":7090.39,"end":7113.258,"text":"好 謝謝 我們現在休息五分鐘 請各黨團協商也跟行政部門溝通 五分鐘之後我們開始恢復開會 我就進行處理 謝謝中華民國憲法人民有居住 遷徙自由 總統也是不能違憲的 我跟你說旅遊就是遷徙自由啊對啊沒有限制旅遊啊你都只想這些政治 你有沒有想過業者咧"},{"start":7120.185,"end":7144.587,"text":"然後呢如果要團體去參鄉的那要每個人自己各自各自去你可以說是這麼不符合現實的說法嗎你到底有沒有活在這個世界裡對啊那你可以自由行還不准組團是為什麼那你們去跟中國講啊我是中華民國的立法委員好不好我能要求的就是中華民國的政府單位中方對等開放就沒有問題"},{"start":7145.988,"end":7150.114,"text":"退等開放就是你們應該去講的這是你們的責任你是執政黨這就是你們的責任"},{"start":7151.96,"end":7157.142,"text":"中華民國沒有兩部憲法有沒有居住限制自由當然有自由啊當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有"},{"start":7177.81,"end":7177.95,"text":"這國際對等問題啊"},{"start":7266.656,"end":7269.25,"text":"那也是要找到最好的嘛"},{"start":7616.53,"end":7643.272,"text":"好,謝謝,院會已經在等我們了好,謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位列席的官員也請坐那,經過協商之後顯然沒有辦法達成共識那我們就送院會處理好,謝謝陸委會跟交通部所有列席的官員,謝謝你們我們進行下一案下面一案"},{"start":7864.793,"end":7867.088,"text":"因為這個是民眾黨提案的嘛"},{"start":7923.827,"end":7952.709,"text":"陳次長交通部的你們可以先休息一下因為我們連來進行刑法暫時跟你們部門沒有關係好不好請休息 請休息一下花東快還那個零四零三刑法二八六那個那個喔那是某樣先講不嘛"},{"start":7955.865,"end":7959.875,"text":"我們等一下討論到花東快再請陳次長來就可以了好不好請先休息一下"},{"start":7962.745,"end":7991.27,"text":"院長有關花東快跟0403齁我們上禮拜有在講很久昨天早上我叫所有部會四個部會都去跟副總統協商那得出四個決議像這個決議改了農村會兩個決議那我們都沒問題簽了那這樣簽了以後代表什麼那0403以及花東快特別條例就測案這個很清楚早上我在這裡簽來了"},{"start":7994.693,"end":7997.616,"text":"等一下花東快啊"},{"start":8479.271,"end":8487.699,"text":"請問法務部的法務部的代表到了嗎?司法院謝謝啊司法院國民黨到了歡迎歡迎"},{"start":8870.669,"end":8871.91,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8901.681,"end":8927.907,"text":"好 謝謝我們今天討論中華民國刑法我們今天延伸中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案司法及法治委員會我再呼籲一次我們會場保持宿敬好不好好不好 大家請保持安靜好嗎請不要再站來走來走去了好 非常的凌亂"},{"start":8932.13,"end":8950.811,"text":"我們今天一起朝以協商中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案司法及法治委員會並案審查黃建豪等二十位委員凝聚中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案等十案審查會於一百一三年四月十七日審查完略審查結果第七十七條"},{"start":8952.192,"end":8974.622,"text":"徵定第二百七十二條之一．第二百八十六條及徵定第二百八十六條之一．均保留送院會處理．並決議院會討論前需交由黨團協商另院會第十一次、十二次、十三次會議．分別將賴世保委員、陳金威委員．盧憲一委員、徐宇峥委員等．盧明哲委員等．"},{"start":8975.342,"end":8994.101,"text":"提案分別禁服二讀各自制委員會抽出禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商國民黨團於7月11日召集協商由吳宗憲委員主持針對刑法第286條加重虐童刑責進行協商由於有黨團代表未出席討論尚未達成共識"},{"start":8995.382,"end":9021.559,"text":"我們本次會議協商之條文共計四條第七十七條增訂第二七二之一第二八六條及第二八六之一我們現在先歡迎今天列行的我們法務部的政務次黃次長歡迎您司法院的吳祕書長歡迎您還有各位法務部跟司法院各級官員代表現在我們先請提案的國民黨團請表達意見"},{"start":9029.107,"end":9052.278,"text":"好 謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員那我想今天我們提案的這個刑法二八六條主要就是針對虐童的部分那為什麼會提這個我跟大家分享當初有一個新聞民國一百一十一年十月十九號有一個新聞就是一個女童遭受虐待變成二成的骷髏的樣子最後那個繼父被判四年兩個月那原因就是因為當時起訴的原因是用這個"},{"start":9053.218,"end":9076.253,"text":"殺人未遂跟這個虐童的這個方式來起訴但是在這個要件上面因為殺人未遂沒有成立嘛那最後變成只有虐童但是虐童按照現在最重的刑度最重最重就是五年而已所以說最後因為雖然他這個虐童的情況非常嚴重但是因為你用虐童去辦他只會有四他最後判出來就四年那我想這個東西跟傷害罪比起來"},{"start":9077.093,"end":9092.749,"text":"現行的傷害罪針對兒童的部分也都有加重期刑但對於虐童是沒有的所以這一條我們覺得說虐童的部分當然幾年我個人沒有什麼堅持一定要幾年但是我覺得虐童法義上比起來它應該要比傷害罪"},{"start":9093.429,"end":9113.829,"text":"來得更重所以說因為虐待兒童這個樣態跟傷害也不太一樣當初這個新聞報導裡面法官也提到說在何以廷的法案裡面也提到說就是因為我們這個立法委員這邊我們的法律的要件裡面就只有虐童沒有傷害的部分而且傷害跟虐待的樣態也不一樣所以以虐待兒童這個樣態來講我們應該在286裡面"},{"start":9117.652,"end":9137.943,"text":"針對兒童的部分應該要加重它的刑度．而不是用現在的刑度去規範虐待．我想虐待跟傷害在這個構成要件上是不一樣的．所以我們希望說在二八六部分．把虐待兒童的部分的刑度應該要加重一點．以上說明謝謝我們提案的黃建豪委員的說明．接下來請民進黨黨團發言．台灣民眾黨團請準備請沈伯陽委員發言"},{"start":9144.175,"end":9171.485,"text":"好 那我先聚焦一下這個很高興大家關心這個兒童的這一個發展那因為這一個 因為這裡面還包含這一個我記得是亮偉翔提案他有一個七十七條然後後面還有這個蘇勛銓委員的提案的一個286之一所以其實有好幾條那我們先針對286那另外兩條的待會再說明那第一個就是根據這些提案會有一些立法例上的一些問題就是說那個歲數的一個規定有點不一而足所以我覺得這個應該要收攏"},{"start":9172.765,"end":9202.325,"text":"但是剛好有看到這一個國民黨團的修正動議跟民眾黨團的修正動議都是用七歲這看起來是一個應該是一個正確的方向但再來就是關於這個加重結果犯因為在刑法上加重結果犯是故意加過失那我們看到各黨團的這些委員的版本很多都是把這個致死變成是死刑那通常在刑法的立法例上面致死會跑到死刑非常非常的少見只有在這個三四七吧就是魯仁勒屬因為他本來就已經刑度非常高"},{"start":9202.765,"end":9217.947,"text":"所以他才會在致死又死刑的規定所以在這邊致死死刑的規定有可能是不符合這個立法例甚至有一些委員的規定他是比殺人還重那就變成一個道德危險就是說他殺人還比較重那他還不如不要去做這些事情那再來就是這一個"},{"start":9221.19,"end":9241.349,"text":"二八六之一雖然是等一下要討論但是因為二八六之一有一個重複評價的問題這個如果等一下要討論的時候再講那最後呢我想提一下就是如果按照現在新的這一個剛剛有看到國民黨的一個修正動議跟民眾黨的修正動議我先講民眾黨黨團他說這個未滿七歲犯第一項然後呢去加重其刑二分之一"},{"start":9242.049,"end":9257.954,"text":"這個是一個比較快速的一個立法方式因為就是一律就是把這前幾項加重那這個加重的方式會跟兒少的這個一百一十二條會有一個不能說衝突但是就是兒少一百一十二條也有加重二分之一所以或許大家可以看法務部能不能夠幫個忙就是說"},{"start":9259.975,"end":9284.772,"text":"看這一個跟兒少的規定我們要怎麼去做出區別我覺得這是一個那至於對於國民黨團的這一個修正動議就會有剛剛講的問題雖然他前面用這一個未滿七歲未成年人犯七年以上這是一種加重但因為後面他因而致人於死者直接走到死刑那這跟整個刑法的立法例跟那個刑度平均的方式不一樣所以呢我覺得可能我們可以從民眾黨黨團的這一個版本還有這個民進黨團的這個修正的版本來做討論 謝謝"},{"start":9289.393,"end":9316.499,"text":"謝謝沈柏洋委員的發言接下來請台灣民眾黨黨團發言主席還有各位黨團的代表台灣民眾黨黨團針對286條所提出來的修正動議我們基本上是肯認對於七歲以下的未成年人不管是他保護自己的能力或者是說對於他進行凌虐所造成的傷害"},{"start":9317.677,"end":9326.694,"text":"都更為嚴重因此針對七歲以下其他的委員所提出來的規定"},{"start":9328.212,"end":9350.139,"text":"對於七歲以下的要進一步的保護加重他的處罰的這個方向我們是認同的那只不過說在立法上面我們會去做這樣子的處理是因為有很多不同的版本彼此之間在去調整一二三四項的法定型的時候他"},{"start":9351.121,"end":9377.706,"text":"沒有一個統一合邏輯的規定所以我們會認為用加重期刑二分之一的方式去強化他的處罰那至於說兒少法那邊加重期刑的規定他本來就不會用在二八六我理解應該沒有錯啦兒少法那邊的規定是用在普通傷害罪我們之前實務上所發生的問題是普通傷害罪加上兒少法的二分之一"},{"start":9379.437,"end":9398.125,"text":"做了以後然後286到底還有多少適用的空間上次在詢答的時候我也跟法務部的官員有做過意見的交換你們後來也去做了意見的整理出來所以在286這一邊不會有兒少法那邊加重二分之一的問題"},{"start":9400.101,"end":9409.349,"text":"我想這個應該沒有沒有什麼樣子的規範重複的問題根本就不存在"},{"start":9410.744,"end":9434.576,"text":"這樣子的問題兒少法的二分之一是跟普通商愛罪277連結在一起的那286因為本來就針對保護的客體做特別的規定所以就不會有兒少法那邊規範的問題現行實務上面這已經是一個非常穩定的運作狀態了我想這個討論應該是清楚的啦那只不過說在立法的政策上"},{"start":9436.745,"end":9451.096,"text":"針對一定歲數以下的幼童因為當初我們擴大保護到未滿18歲我覺得從國際潮流的角度上面來看這是沒有問題的但你說凌虐一個高中生"},{"start":9452.057,"end":9473.979,"text":"跟林若一個還在幼兒園的人．給他相同的法定型的考慮．這樣子的一個立法政策．是不是有重新檢討的必要．是不是應該給七歲以下．更沒有能力保護自己．他所造成的實害會更嚴重．從刑法上面的觀點．給他更重的處罰．"},{"start":9475.729,"end":9503.54,"text":"讓法官有更多的空間去給他做比較重的處罰才不會出現說剛剛黃建豪委員所在講的法官竟然在判決書裡面講講到好像是立法者的錯那我想我們肯定其他的委員針對286他們要加重處罰用意良善那這個方向基本上"},{"start":9504.505,"end":9520.86,"text":"我們也肯定那只不過說在立法的技術上面我們認為說化繁為簡針對要強化保護的客體用一個統一的規定來強化保護提出這樣子的一個修正動議也供各位黨團還有其他的委員考量"},{"start":9522.943,"end":9537.415,"text":"謝謝黃國昌總召的發言接下來是鍾嘉斌委員發言之後就請法務部以及司法院來回應回應之後我們會再請委員來發言發言完畢之後我們就會敲五分鐘左右的協商時間"},{"start":9538.536,"end":9553.693,"text":"好,謝謝主席請大家把這個程序報告一下,請中央嘉賓委員發言,請謝謝主席,我們新建目前由臺灣民眾黨團的修正動議和國民黨的修正動議呢有趨向一個方向一致的,大方向是一致的,這一點我們是予以肯定"},{"start":9554.514,"end":9568.735,"text":"那麼至於目前國民黨黨團的動議它在最後一項新增一項的部分呢之所以列入了死刑這個部分跟一般的殺人罪等等剛剛我們沈博洋委員已經說明了恐怕呢在"},{"start":9569.696,"end":9595.311,"text":"在行度上跟整個刑法的整個整體體力的均衡性上似乎不太適當我這裡要強調的是說在國民黨團的修正最後一項當中它也將第一項跟第二項意圖盈利與否並沒有做區分這一點我們很清楚在原來286的第一項當中它是六個月以上五年以下但是意圖盈利它就直接跳到五年以上"},{"start":9595.911,"end":9622.631,"text":"但是對於第一項跟第二項未滿七歲的犯第一項第二項之罪者他卻刑度是相同的這一點可能我們可以再斟酌可以把它做個區分那如果用這個角度來看的話臺灣民眾黨他們在第五項的部分直接是用加重其刑制二分之一的方式那這個方向上就符合了原第一項第二項所作的區分那可能比較能夠符合我們目前對七歲以下的保護原則"},{"start":9623.692,"end":9650.738,"text":"那剛剛有提到兒少法第一百一十二條呢他這裡面呢因為兒少的定義在我們這裡跟我們七歲以下定義的有所不同在兒少法當中未滿十二歲的是兒童十二歲以上未滿十八歲的是少年但是我們這裡是區分成七歲那所以呢在這裡面未來在一百一十二條的加重期二分之一的方式的適用上呢會出現了一個這個十八歲以未滿十八歲跟未滿七歲這個差別"},{"start":9653.018,"end":9680.243,"text":"那未來是否可以在我們特別針對未滿7歲以下的加強保護對他的法印與強化這個部分希望待會在法務部的時候能夠就這個部分來予以闡明那原則上個人認為我們目前台灣民眾黨所增列的第五項以未滿7歲來作為加重期刑二分之一的方向是予以肯認的但是希望跟兒少法第112條當中他的加重期刑二分之一他的"},{"start":9681.705,"end":9690.999,"text":"被害者的適用對象．一個是未滿18歲．一個是未滿7歲．如何在良心上再以區隔出特別的對象．這一點希望法務部能夠做一個建議"},{"start":9697.136,"end":9721.364,"text":"是主席還有大院各位委員大家好那我想剛才大家都有垂詢先做說明就是兒少法的第112條的適用跟本條之間的關係我想之前也講得很清楚就主要是兒少法第112條的第一項的但書還有說但各該罪就被害人系兒童及少年一定有特別處罰規定者"},{"start":9722.904,"end":9751.577,"text":"重啟規定也就是說因為我們整個刑法第286條他是規定對於未滿18歲之人所以課題剛好就落入了112條的但書的規定也就是說所以現在實務上面確實在適用第286條的時候並沒有辦法再援引而上法的第112條來重複的來做這個加重的處罰的規定所以說我們目前看到目前黨"},{"start":9752.797,"end":9770.223,"text":"各黨所提出的修正動議裡面臺灣民主黨黨團所提出的第五項事實上它確實是可以做一個加重的規定跟兒少法的一百一十二條是不會重複這是目前實務上的狀況我們針對國民黨團剛剛提出來的提案我們也做一些說明我們認為說從未滿六歲改成未滿七歲"},{"start":9779.987,"end":9806.579,"text":"我們覺得這個是比較妥當因為七歲現在也是我們很多的法令作為一個區隔的年齡層譬如說民法裡面的這個無形的能力到先行的能力那同時在我們目前的學制上面應該也是滿七歲來上小學所以說這個照顧的型態也會有一個很大的區隔所以我們在實務上以七歲做一個分隔點的案件數量的統計也有顯著的差別"},{"start":9807.259,"end":9826.192,"text":"所以這個情況底下我們認為七歲是一個比較好的區隔的時間點至於說這要採取用加重期刑到二分之一還是我們用國民黨團提案是分別來定這個刑度我們會建議用加重比較好因為國民黨團的這個目前的提案這個對於"},{"start":9829.548,"end":9849.015,"text":"法案第一項跟第二項之罪﹑處七年上已徒刑﹑如果我們加重之二分之一﹑其實罪重已經超過這一個﹑如果是已結合犯的部分﹑因而致人已死或致重傷﹑目前所列的刑度其實有一點已經跟"},{"start":9849.975,"end":9873.035,"text":"跟其他罪相比之下又有點太過所以我們會建議說是不是用統一來加重製衛門之一的立法例會比較周詳比較符合比例原則那麼以上是目前我們看到現有的修正動議版本的意見跟大院來做說明謝謝黃次長的說明接下來請司法院吳秘書長請"},{"start":9875.326,"end":9889.576,"text":"院長、各位委員、各位先進那關於這個刑法二八六條這個修正那這幾天我們跟法務部也都有很緊密的這個"},{"start":9892.418,"end":9910.029,"text":"互相來協調所以剛剛法務部的意見我們是同意就是從罪責相當原則還有刑法分責的這個刑度的體力來看我們是同意法務部的這個見解"},{"start":9912.31,"end":9935.551,"text":"其實這個跟今天台灣民眾黨提出來的修正動議那個意旨都是一樣只是文字上如何讓它跟一般刑法規定的那個體力能夠讓它更精簡所以其實內容都一樣意旨是一樣所以司法院是同意法務部的意見 謝謝"},{"start":9937.423,"end":9950.142,"text":"建華次長剛剛司法院的協議秘書長所提到的這個文字體力問題我們可以來協助把它跟刑法其他條文的文字體力把它一致化再提供給大院做參考"},{"start":9951.823,"end":9974.052,"text":"看到法務部跟司法院意見一致我們說不出來的高興現在請莊銳雄委員發言請楊瓊英委員準備謝謝院長還有我們各位協商代表其實我倒是這樣建議我們法務部跟司法院這個地方不要不好意思把這些委員或各政黨的版本一次你就把它全部當成一個法學教育把它提出來講這個裡面講的寫的其實這個"},{"start":9977.935,"end":9999.866,"text":"立法者這個提案可以想像他的初衷是要幹什麼是很討厭這種犯罪要把他加重可是這有些都亂定而且是你們也都沒有盡到說這個在整個刑法體系裡面該怎麼樣來做立法的要去跟現行體制稍微去跟他們做一個示意"},{"start":10000.646,"end":10001.287,"text":"他們在拗年齡區跟區隔拗三歲拗六歲然後整個條文"},{"start":10009.485,"end":10032.139,"text":"我們的刑法裡面你也不會去看到什麼一年以上八年以下一年以上十年以下什麼五年以上十年以下那剛好十年以上十二年以下這個都已經亂寫一通了然後你們法務部在那邊又不好意思去講又不好意思去講這看起來這個刑法本來我們的體力裡面就有一定的一個級距在"},{"start":10033.237,"end":10033.637,"text":"請公決案"},{"start":10048.885,"end":10072.547,"text":"那你要加重結果犯那他一定是前面有一個故意後面有一個過失那你後面也弄到全部都是死刑的話那個要弄死刑那就等於就跟故意犯殺人罪一模一樣啊這就聽起來就覺得很奇怪我就不談去談這個兩公約的事情啊所以你跟部分草案去徵定未滿一定連你是三歲到六歲以下的這個286的一個加重期刑"},{"start":10073.428,"end":10090.214,"text":"這個都缺乏立法的一個依據這個先這樣子一個說明但是呢國民黨版的草案這邊的參考我是我倒會覺得是不是也可以因為你講到未滿六歲我覺得林士明委員可能你就必須要"},{"start":10091.804,"end":10108.379,"text":"改了齁 改了齁 別這樣亂啦好不好你們寫這種版本寫得這個讓人家看不懂的版本會提出來本來就是很奇怪尤其是整部法令裡面從這個過程裡面我可以看得很可以看得出來"},{"start":10109.66,"end":10125.832,"text":"是我要來凸顯一下就是說大家都要回應民意這是一件好事但是在提案版本的時候拜託真的也不要去亂寫一通啦你像譬如說我們立法院我們自己制定出來"},{"start":10126.533,"end":10130.334,"text":"我們弄了一個從過去到現在全世界都一樣的有一個假釋的這個一個原則性的我們除了說你就執行行為滿六個月或者罪犯重罪三證條款那個部分或者性犯罪你再評估危險犯沒有顯著降低這些人不得假釋以外這是我們立法院所定的確立這樣的一個原則大家已經爭論過很久了你現在就把它又把它擴大了擴大說有這一些的全部都不能假釋"},{"start":10152.481,"end":10163.227,"text":"這個好像又有很奇怪的都失去整個制度啊讓萬一有一天那個人有一天可以更新回到社會的一個可能那只是因為現在民氣可用所以把這個路全部堵掉這樣的一個立法例啊"},{"start":10166.889,"end":10170.333,"text":"我倒認為我真的是岐岐以為不可啦年齡的部分真的不要亂定啦真的不要亂定奇怪我學過的民法跟刑法不是這樣啊怎麼看到的草案都跟原來完全都有不同那至於啊"},{"start":10181.886,"end":10209.237,"text":"台灣民眾黨所提出來的這個第五項那個部分倒是跟本黨這個地方意見都很累都幾乎大家趨近一個想法了像這一些你像比如說你對未滿七歲的未成年人去犯他的第一項第二項第四項你這個後面你說來把它做一個加重二分之一的話我倒認為這個就可以討論就很合理了那至於說一些亂提的法案法務部跟司法院你們這邊都失職了"},{"start":10211.718,"end":10216.793,"text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言接下來請楊瓊英委員發言請林思敏委員準備"},{"start":10218.265,"end":10243.874,"text":"謝謝主席我真的超感動剛剛司法院跟法務部次長陳儒主席所說的大家方向是一致要怎麼去做但是我也敬請因為草野協商大家也都非常的用心到目前為止民眾黨的版本國民黨的版本以及民進黨的修正動議都已經在大家的桌上"},{"start":10244.714,"end":10258.963,"text":"這是我們議事組人員都非常的辛苦所以因此大家面對到目前的社會現象是必須要去修改我們的法律去調整讓我們的社會能夠安心尤其我們這些孩子都是我們的寶貝坦白講我們如果這個年齡大家不去給他約束清楚在刑責方面在他們判定也會有所模擬兩可"},{"start":10273.772,"end":10299.969,"text":"所以今天在民眾黨的版本、國民黨的版本以及民進黨的版本修正動議最後都在這三份當中也請我們各位委員大家去看清楚因為在國民黨的版本當中也非常的明定對未滿七歲之未成年人犯罪的第一項跟第二項的罪者那麼非常明定的寫清楚"},{"start":10300.769,"end":10314.024,"text":"也就是說處七年以上有期徒刑因而致人於死者處死刑無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑者致重傷者處無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":10317.127,"end":10333.637,"text":"是否能夠讓我們的社會更加安定我們提出這樣的論點我們應當就針對這些的論點大家來做共同討論但是我非常感動的是到目前為止針對於我們的這個刑法第二百六條"},{"start":10335.078,"end":10361.057,"text":"當中大家都有一致性的方向也就是以目前的現行法律是不足以來安定民心保護我們的孩童所以我們還是希望能夠在大家共同討論拿到一個真正能夠幫助社會大眾的我們的二八六條的這個修正草案我也非常希望今天大家針對不管年齡或者是加重處分的部分都能夠有一個共識謝謝"},{"start":10363.872,"end":10387.719,"text":"謝謝楊瓊瑛委員發言接下來請林思敏委員發言郭介銘委員請準備是我想今天很高興我們看到不管是民進黨或者民眾黨還有我們的法務部還有司法院對二八六條的相關的修正我想大家的意見其實大概都差不多了但至於說這個到底要怎麼樣來修要加重執行大家是都意志一見我想這個立法技術的問題就對於未滿7歲的這些"},{"start":10391.48,"end":10418.645,"text":"為成年人我們是要怎麼樣來加重他的行動那我想剛才不管是民進黨或者民眾黨法務部都認為說加重其行之二分之一這是一個可行的方向我想雖然國民黨的版本跟大家不太一樣但是我們現在這個尊重尊重法務部尊重我們台灣民眾黨的一個修正動議我想我們會提出相關的一個修正意見以上謝謝"},{"start":10419.805,"end":10439.779,"text":"謝謝林思明委員接下來柯建銘委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備院長各位委員同仁我想現在討論起來大致應該會齊心一致因為國民黨本來版本已經改期所以是沒有錯但是有死刑無期徒刑一時以上"},{"start":10442.638,"end":10458.012,"text":"對,你現在是講長這樣嘛那我們等一下啦現在在做的上有民進黨的版本和民進黨版本以及國民黨版本那既然剛才余思敏講說大家可以來調整那就是說"},{"start":10459.493,"end":10478.85,"text":"總則沒有改年金改分折,而且這樣屬於共識誌實,所以這樣刑律有死刑是不對的那我希望就是說,大家只要齊一一致的共同提案就好了,好不好共同提案,這樣比較快"},{"start":10481.348,"end":10499.763,"text":"謝謝柯建民總召接下來請沈伯陽委員發言許巧欣委員請準備好我簡短發言就好了因為我剛剛結論的時候就有說可以從這個民眾黨黨團還有後來我們提的這一個版本來做修正但我覺得剛剛黃國昌委員可能有點誤會我的意思就是說我們都知道112有但書但是112有但書的狀況之下導致"},{"start":10500.203,"end":10519.66,"text":"二八六跟單純的今天傷害去加重的刑度其實不合的所以我們才會認為說要問法務部你如果用下面這個加重跟你用第一項第二項重新調整刑度是不是請法務部來說明看看那當然我還是覺得說真的因為凌虐跟傷害的定義它是有差距的"},{"start":10520.02,"end":10530.075,"text":"所以在這個狀況之下還可以接受286現在的法定型的刑度所以我們願意用未滿7歲這樣的一個方式所以補充說明一下因為剛剛這個顯然好像有點誤會"},{"start":10534.083,"end":10556.194,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言在剩下兩位委員發言之後我必須要喊休息五分鐘大家溝通那也跟大家報告一下好我們就暫時截止接下來請徐巧欣委員發言好謝謝院長那我想呢現在大家看起來就不管是國民黨民眾黨跟民進黨都有一個在修法上面比較多的共識"},{"start":10557.134,"end":10581.472,"text":"但是我同時也要主張一下在原本的國民黨團的修正動議裡面提到包含是死刑跟無期徒刑以及十年以上有期徒刑這個部分當初會提出來那是因應民眾的期待也就是說對於我們在立法技術而言上面來說我們用所謂的加重二分之一期刑隊這是一個法律上的文字但是我們在民間聽到的聲音他們當然也"},{"start":10583.473,"end":10610.107,"text":"大多數的民眾是認為如果有凌虐兒童致死的話那為什麼不把他判死刑呢所以我想雖然說在這一次的立法上面我們國民黨民進黨民眾黨最後可能可以達到一個共識叫做加重其刑至二分之一這是一個修法技術但對一般普羅大眾而言大家的期待是關於死刑無期徒刑而且是重罰這一點呢我想我們今天還是要強力的表述謝謝"},{"start":10611.657,"end":10636.833,"text":"謝謝徐曉英委員接下來請林月警委發言108年的時候在修《兒燒權法》的時候就也並同修286那我覺得真的要去考慮當時實際上國民黨就有提出來死刑可是那時候為什麼沒有因為修法有時候一刀兩刃也要去兼顧到另外一方的需求因為過去不管是拱重案或者是湯姆朗案案他們都是因為"},{"start":10638.995,"end":10666.495,"text":"認為說今天我殺了孩子之後政府會判我死刑所以我就去對孩子動了手可能要去考慮那後來一百零八年修正之後的確後來事實上是有讓我們的刑度調高之後的確有果效的時候不要再去用死刑因為死刑可能又造成孩子的權益事實上受到更大的傷害這一併都要去考慮不是單一面的只考慮到說當傷害孩子的時候我們用重刑"},{"start":10666.935,"end":10690.204,"text":"可是有沒有引發另外一個更大的傷害這一邊要考量所以我還是期待是不是我們這次是加重二分之一否則一百零八年討論的時候為什麼民團這麼反對我覺得背後有它的原因所在以上好 我們現在休息大家直接協商之後再請廖偉祥委員發言我們現在休息五分鐘請各黨團直接溝通 謝謝"},{"start":11246.049,"end":11271.479,"text":"謝謝 各位黨團幹部請坐各位委員請坐 各位官員請坐我們現在繼續開會 要宣讀草案協商結果謝謝請坐下來苗栗的邱正軍委員請坐下來好跟各位"},{"start":11272.659,"end":11298.274,"text":"跟各位黨團幹部委員報告一下,我們現在三黨協商結果已經出爐,我們非常,我們請議事人員來宣讀一下刑法第二百八十六條第一項至第四項未修正,增訂第五項,對於未滿七歲之人犯前四項之罪者,依各該項規定加重其刑至二分之一,宣讀完畢"},{"start":11305.936,"end":11317.618,"text":"好 我們依照協商的內容我們就通過第二百八十六條修正現在我們處理第七十七條請廖偉祥委員提案委員請發言"},{"start":11320.78,"end":11346.066,"text":"各位好主席好我們當初提案是修77跟272之一那基本上概念上也跟今天主要的方向一樣因為對於這個虐童殺童對於手舞腹肌之力的孩童受到這樣的傷害這都是我們應該要予以保障和提高嚇阻行為的那因為為了有效的在這一次的會議可以盡速的讓我們的刑責嚇阻效率提高所以我們要堅持這個77跟272之一"},{"start":11349.187,"end":11368.757,"text":"那對那這個部分但是我們還是希望未來如果這個法務部在統計這個數據當然在立法基礎上體力上我們沒有要檢視這件事可是未來如果社會還是持續發生這樣的事件然後這個案量並沒有下降的話我們未來再不排除再更進一步的修研謝謝好謝謝兩位參議員的發言好感謝"},{"start":11371.718,"end":11378.02,"text":"各位黨團幹部各位委員我們就決定不予修正維持現行條文好 謝謝徵定第272條之一我們一樣不予徵定徵定第286條之一我們有蘇清泉等28位委員提案請蘇清泉委員請發言"},{"start":11406.263,"end":11416.547,"text":"第二百八十六條之一不予增訂"},{"start":11433.513,"end":11457.128,"text":"我現在協商結論跟各位黨團還有各位委員報告一下也跟各位列席的官員報告一下一 第七十七條不予修正 維持現行條文二 增訂第兩百七十二條之一及第兩百八十六條之一均不予增訂三 第兩百八十六條照協商內容通過 詳如附件好不好 謝謝大家因為今天早上我們有送286"},{"start":11463.855,"end":11481.711,"text":"還有已經送到院會了嘛,我們就測案,這樣共同,既然大家共同一樣的嘛,那我們案就測下來我們有送七條,二百六之一不予申請,以及這個二百六都有送,那就測案,這樣共同提案就好了"},{"start":11484.059,"end":11510.79,"text":"那我們就到協商協議院會那個就不處理了好謝謝柯建民總召那我們刑法修正已經好接下來是謝謝我們司法院吳秘書長也謝謝黃市長謝謝司法院跟法務部的關於謝謝我們下面接著繼續來討論警察人員人事條例修正第35條條文及增訂副表3草案等那個"},{"start":11512.626,"end":11532.953,"text":"法務部的那個次長對不起黃次長我們剛才黨團幹部都有一個共識麻煩下次朝野協商請部長來一下好不好請轉達一下鄭部長因為大家黨團幹部都希望能夠部長本人來出席好嗎請您轉達不然要向院長請假好不好不然罰寫一百遍抄寫一百遍下次我本人親自傳講好謝謝"},{"start":11613.496,"end":11619.25,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝 來各位參各位來到會的官員請趕快就坐"},{"start":11638.373,"end":11644.918,"text":"好各位列席的官員請就座各位黨團幹部各位委員請就座我們爭取時間謝謝"},{"start":11667.11,"end":11694.19,"text":"好 謝謝大家請就座跟各位黨團幹部報告 還有各位委員報告我們今天嚴商警察人員人事條例修正第35條條文及增訂副表三草案司法及法制內政兩委員會並案審查蘇清泉等委員萬美玲等委員謝榮介等委員"},{"start":11694.67,"end":11710.866,"text":"王宏威等委員﹑丁學忠等委員﹑顏寬恒等委員﹑鄭天才等委員﹑林思明等委員﹑武力華等委員﹑王宏威委員﹑游皓委員﹑張志倫委員等提案"},{"start":11711.807,"end":11738.679,"text":"審查會於一百一三年六月十三日審查完均審查情形第三十五條及徵訂附表三保留送院會處理其餘均由審查結果通過並決議院會討論前需交由黨團協商國民黨團於七月十一日召集協商由吳宗憲召集委員主持針對警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條"},{"start":11740.019,"end":11764.635,"text":"調整警察人員退休所得替代率進行協商由於有黨團代表未出席討論尚未達成共識現在先介紹今天列席的所有的閣員與官員首先我們介紹內政部劉部長熱情歡迎歡迎部長權敘部司部長歡迎警政署張署長歡迎"},{"start":11768.66,"end":11785.852,"text":"消防署的蕭署長歡迎其他關於我就不一一介紹歡迎大家我們現在請各黨團表示意見請國民黨團所提議的請劉許庭委員發言請民進黨團準備"},{"start":11787.922,"end":11816.316,"text":"謝謝主席這個我想在過去審查這個相關條例的一些答詢的過程之中大家都把話講得非常的清楚也就是說我們的警察跟消防弟兄基本上在工作的性質上跟一般的公務員顯有巨大的落差那麼在性質跟工商的比例也皆高於一般的公務員第三考量相關工作環境的嚴酷跟高風險也比較常出現所謂的為勞找退"},{"start":11816.636,"end":11817.577,"text":"本院國民黨團提出了相關的修正案"},{"start":11837.551,"end":11854.604,"text":"針對最低所得替代率、年增率以及最高所得替代率的部分提出了若干的修正當然在答詢跟這個委員會審查跟草野協商的時候並未達成共識但是我們依然主張最低的所得替代率應與調升年增率應與調升但有關最高所得替代率"},{"start":11855.104,"end":11881.499,"text":"倒是可以這個濁情來做辦理因為考量不管是社會觀感也好或者是各黨團盡量的要達成共識的角度來出發是不是能夠逐步的來做檢討跟改進我們的目標非常單純照顧基層的警消弟兄維持性愛保護原則讓他們有應有的退休的尊嚴跟待遇是我們修法的目標希望在今天的院長主持的草野協商大家能夠捐濟成見盡量的來達成共識以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":11884.761,"end":11890.667,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員的發言接下來請吳思瑤委員發言好 更正請柯建銘委員發言請台灣民眾黨準備"},{"start":11894.059,"end":11914.224,"text":"主席各位委員同仁我們這一次所有零四個法案那在這兩天裡面大家都非常理性在談所以到最後也解決不少問題關於這個警察人員人事條例我大家都知道在委會的時候大家都沒有共識"},{"start":11915.464,"end":11929.477,"text":"那禮拜一的報紙有看到侯孟愷曾經講過一句話說這個警察人員條例他們還沒有討論就不助理那自由刷血了那另外一回事"},{"start":11930.558,"end":11959.292,"text":"那我以為今天就不處理那今天要處理的話可是我還是在這裡要講幾個大家來想看到底我們今天這樣的處理是可以嗎有沒有符合公民正義從第一點來講的話所有警察圍牢我們已經給他到目前為止已經給他比一般的公務人員多了也就是說他平均稅收薪資差不多六萬一"},{"start":11960.874,"end":11979.979,"text":"五零萬平均五萬,已經比較多了。然後呢,因公三房一千萬變成兩千萬。那另外就是說,假如這樣的,要處理都做真要,而且危老,事實上,要處理警察危老。退休我也可以找,十年退休,等等。"},{"start":11980.899,"end":12007.837,"text":"相對危勞市長也很多啦比如說醫護人員危勞比如說監所的危勞 很多但是我們針對 因為那時候大家基本靈性改革的時候營銷人員發動很大的抗爭那最後法還是通過這中間就是說該處理的去處理 不能比照他要比照金人嘛那金人所得替代率是百分之九十到九十五"},{"start":12008.939,"end":12037.297,"text":"那假如警察比較驚人的話,坦白講對一般的公民心是發生很大的問題另外一點就是說,退休以後就沒有未來的問題嘛本來就已經給責任比較多了那現在要再加的時候,再加一萬多跟七萬多所以這個我在講的就是說,我們要了解假如這樣的行為加上去的時候"},{"start":12038.237,"end":12057.459,"text":"未來政府要多付三千一百一十七億這是一個很嚴重的問題政府要多付錢然後除了這個以外政府要多三千一百一十七億因為退休金要預租的部分又少了"},{"start":12058.613,"end":12077.918,"text":"這少一千零九三億另外呢這種結果會造成什麼基金支出要增加所以只一直增加然後收入會減少那當然年金提早破產這是一個這有世代爭議的問題"},{"start":12079.678,"end":12102.716,"text":"這個是年金要我們年金改革以後你現在又還改革然後整個提早破產我們對年金事態要怎麼交代對整個基金將來的提早退休這裡面又牽涉到我還是要講一下雖然講大家會覺得不高興喔我要講什麼?我要講還是回到憲法層次"},{"start":12104.096,"end":12127.135,"text":"立法院提議法案然後政府檢討支出這麼多違反這個憲法七十條違反到另外一個憲法第七條的平等原則也就是說公務員和警察的平等原則差距太大了那我們既然已經給他照顧了"},{"start":12128.576,"end":12148.825,"text":"所以這一點大家特別要想一下我認為大家都想做好人但是做好人要不能違憲違法而且失去公平原則而且讓人因體老破產世代不爭議會發生所以我還是建議大家忍心想一想這個難道要表決嗎"},{"start":12151.667,"end":12161.54,"text":"這個可以不處理 大家應該不應該處理那最後一定要表決為尊重大家忍氣想一想嘛好 請台灣民眾黨發言 請吳思瑤準備"},{"start":12165.137,"end":12187.956,"text":"沒有,我講過,有登記的,你在5時以後謝謝主席針對有關於針對警消的部分在所得替代率的部分是不是有需要重新調整的這件事情在委員會上面到後面委員會的協商的時候臺灣民眾黨我們表示的立場非常清楚我們支持年金的改革"},{"start":12188.757,"end":12214.654,"text":"我們支持年金的改革那只不過說針對警消他們實際上面在勤務上面的內容的確跟一般的公務人員不一樣這個是我覺得我們要體認的一個清楚的現實那只不過說在所得替代率上面直接把它拉到跟軍人一樣的這件事情它所會造成的財務上面的衝擊我們事實上是必須要考慮的"},{"start":12215.795,"end":12219.438,"text":"當然全序部他們現在針對直接拉到"},{"start":12222.183,"end":12248.901,"text":"90%的所得替代率的這一邊上次在委員會討論的協商的時候討論出來是它會使得基金用慶的年度提前兩年完成那我那個時候在委員會協商的時候啊我事實上曾經提出就麻煩全序部啊就是功課做足一點什麼叫功課做足一點就是說你試算的時候不要只有試算95%跟90%兩個所得的替代率因為這段時間"},{"start":12250.382,"end":12277.512,"text":"我們聆聽了社會各階層非常多的聲音我們可以很清楚而且負責任的跟大家講臺灣這個社會對於警消同仁的支持甚至他們所提出來的訴求支持度是非常高的支持度是非常高的但是我們也認為在進行這項調整的時候可能不太適合淪於沒有一個實際數字的喊價"},{"start":12279.733,"end":12303.351,"text":"所以我們會希望等到選舉部把各種不同的所得替代率它的試算的結果出來了以後我們再來做一個平衡的、審慎的考慮那所以我是不是可以見請說我們是不是真的有必要急著今天一定要處理我們是不是可以更負責任的"},{"start":12303.931,"end":12328.344,"text":"等到選區部把其他的所得地貸率試算對於基金所會產生的衝擊數字出來了以後再來做一個比較審慎的考慮跟評估但是在整個大的方向上面加強提升對於我們警消同仁保障的這個方向臺灣民眾黨黨團是支持的好 謝謝"},{"start":12330.297,"end":12355.974,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黃總召發言吳思瑤跟洪孟凱兩位委員發言完畢之後就請全序部司部長您表達意見好嗎好請吳思瑤委員年金改革不走回頭路這是攸關世代正義的問題所以民進黨立場為了維持年金的永續基於維持合理性公平性永續性其實對於這一個修法的提案我們的立場我們是沒有辦法來支持"},{"start":12356.926,"end":12383.319,"text":"但是剛剛也聽到民眾黨團的黃總召說他也認為要有進一步的更多思考的空間包括試算的結果那我覺得這樣的處理是可以可以可以大家可以來一起來商量也就是不急著來在院會而且是今天沒有一個精準的試算也相對欠缺充分的討論就這個重大的議案大家想看看當初在年金改革的那個過程"},{"start":12384.58,"end":12405.519,"text":"普方成立了年改的委員會討論了多久然後到立法院從各個委員會的審查歷經非常長的討論然後大家彙聚了相對的共識我知道被改革方當然還是有他的不滿的意見可是他是經過充分的討論來落實了年金改革的目標那現在"},{"start":12408.123,"end":12435.616,"text":"要把它在針對警消的部分再改回來再提高它的所得替代率就當然也應當要慎思所以以這一屆期這個警察人員人事條例在司法法治委員會之討論過一次那黨團協商也等於就是很快就pass過去我覺得這個都應當從長計議那回到這個議案的這個主要的論述我想還是要再做說明"},{"start":12437.15,"end":12455.964,"text":"我們警消人員跟其他公務人員都是適用同一套的退府基金的制度他的繳費、給付的標準都是一樣的所以他的繳費義務跟給付的權利也是對等的這確實就是要維護我們憲法平等權的原則公平對待所有的"},{"start":12457.445,"end":12480.419,"text":"這個基金繳費的所有人員這個核心平等的原則絕對不能來漢格所以說如果針對警消的部分來調整了在公平性上是有問題在平等性上是有問題第二點呢我們當然都非常的體恤也都肯認警消人員平常工作的特殊的狀況也付出相當大的辛勞但是"},{"start":12481.52,"end":12509.83,"text":"持平而論政府對於警消人員的照顧他們平均的月退休所得本來就高於非警消的人員而且警消平均退休的年齡因為他危勞的特性也都低於非警消的人員所以說警消跟非警消兩類人員平均的餘命以及可支領月退休金的年限其實差異是不大的"},{"start":12510.765,"end":12532.506,"text":"如果說要提高就單獨提高警消人員的退休所得替代率那你會拉大警消跟非警消的公務人員兩者之間退休所得的差距而警消人員並不會因此而增加他基金的繳費我就說這樣就會造成不公平不公平"},{"start":12533.667,"end":12548.204,"text":"然後呢單獨提高了警消人員退休所的替代率就財務的部分對於年金的負擔財政的壓力剛剛我們也提過我這裡可以再精簡的歸納一下如果精算"},{"start":12549.786,"end":12577.728,"text":"採行現在五十年的原則合計對政府及基金財政支出的負擔會是3117億再加上668億這樣算起來是3785億這個是增加支出而且會短少挹注給年金的那個破短少挹注了1093億所以我們的退府基金"},{"start":12578.874,"end":12595.852,"text":"在年改之後我們原本期待可以增加一個世代但是它會提早兩年來用盡那這對於所有的退休人員的權益都受到傷害更重要的是對現在現役中的"},{"start":12596.332,"end":12611.659,"text":"警消的工作人員是非常不公平這是世代正義的問題我們固然要照顧退休的警消但是對於現役警消人員的權益絕對不能因此而犧牲葬送"},{"start":12612.719,"end":12637.836,"text":"那最後一點我想就是他會有其他人員的原比的效應就今天一旦單獨提高了警消的所得替代率其他類的公務人員、教育人員等等、醫療人員等等都可能大家認為要援引來比照所以這樣開了一個門、開了一個破口讓當初的年金改革形同又有另外一個缺口可以"},{"start":12638.656,"end":12652.672,"text":"來做整個制度的一個癱瘓或是一個制度的可能因此而崩解我想這都不是我們這一屆立法委員大家願意面對更是我們沒有辦法負責的事情"},{"start":12653.393,"end":12676.965,"text":"所以民進黨團的立場真的是要懇請大家也感謝民眾黨認為這個議案不應當在今天就來處理年輕改革不能走回頭路世代正義不能開倒車我們真的要懇請我們提案的國民黨團這不只三思而後行這是百思而後行萬思而後行年改"},{"start":12677.813,"end":12704.919,"text":"不走回頭路基金的永續我們都有責任拜託就剩下國民黨團的意見了謝謝謝謝吳思堯委員發言接下來請洪孟凱委員發言全序部請準備好謝謝院長院長剛剛本期被提到所以說我一定要做一個正式的回應我在回應媒體的時候媒體的詢問是說在這個會期以前我們總共的處理的事案件到底有多少"},{"start":12705.759,"end":12733.986,"text":"當時我們還沒有確定因為那是上個禮拜的事情還沒有確定說我們到底是有幾案我只能講是說國民黨團那時候很負責任的把我們這一次所有的提案以及交由黨團協商或者是說已經一個月的時間的案子都先列出來可是我有一個但書是說因為在這個會期裡面我們也都尊重院長的協商權也因此在院長還沒有協商之前的議案如果"},{"start":12735.319,"end":12758.895,"text":"因為院長還沒有協商之前大家還沒有取得一個共識也因此我們不會貿然的提起議事 院會來做後續的處理所以在七月十六以前確實這一條條文沒有經過院長的協商但是今天也看到我們展現了這樣的一個高速的效率也因此今天協商如果說沒有辦法取得 能夠取得共識當然最好"},{"start":12759.255,"end":12775.757,"text":"如果沒有辦法取得共識的話這本來就在我們的討論事項第五十一案裡面本來就可以進行我們相關的一個處理所以並沒有講說我們國民黨團沒有要處理這一點我想所有人大家都非常明白了解我們的議事規則所以"},{"start":12777.339,"end":12799.375,"text":"並不需要扣各自黨團的帽子這我們也講非常清楚國民黨團的立場自始至終我們都希望能夠追求一個更公平的原則並且能夠感謝過去到現在我們對於國家付出的警消等相關的公務體系的人員包括海巡包括相關的部分好"},{"start":12800.618,"end":12823.301,"text":"這第一個我們先續名第二我們當然追求公平我們當然追求年金永續我們當然追求大家都要有一個更持平的部分那如果說真的是這樣的話那一國就不應該有兩制嗎那為什麼討論到軍警相關的部分人事條例的時候就會有說一定要有這個相關的一個檢免但是"},{"start":12824.001,"end":12834.529,"text":"討論到更重要以及國人更關心更廣泛更全面的勞保年金的時候就是由我們的勞動部長新上任居然直接在我們的衛環委員會講是說那就撥補啊"},{"start":12836.419,"end":12864.802,"text":"剝補也是改革而前任的勞動部長那時候一直強調是說勞保年金一定要改革非改革不可如果不改革的話會破產結果沒想到過兩個月不到520新的勞動部長上任之後就講說勞保年金就是政府剝補政府補補就是改革所以未來政府可以編列一千億、兩千億的預算持續的投入勞保但是對於其他的年金卻有不同的做法"},{"start":12865.542,"end":12882.93,"text":"這不是一國兩制 什麼才是一國兩制要年金大家一律一律的大家一起來看待要不要改革當然可以討論但是不要用執政黨手握權力卻是對於不同族群不同的年金做不同的對待我覺得這不是一個公平的做法第三"},{"start":12884.366,"end":12908.065,"text":"等一下我想我們很理性務實在這邊討論所以說我也要求說權敘部是不是針對之前我想委員會裡面也都討論很多有一些年金的試算的部分也可以提出相關對應的版本還有我們過去在委員會裡面也有提到了就是說到底現在警政署、消防署、內政部你們的態度是什麼"},{"start":12908.956,"end":12936.857,"text":"我覺得有必要還是要求在院長的協商下再一次請警政署、消防署跟內政部說明一下你們的立場是要為我們過去到現在付出打拼的所有警消弟兄以及相關的公務體系的弟兄來爭取一個合理的待遇還是說就是要放任讓這樣子有一國兩制的一個制度產生透過"},{"start":12939.273,"end":12960.141,"text":"協商的直播全國國人大家關心這個議題的都在看我要拜託院長能夠等一下讓內政部警政署消防署能夠表達你們的意見簡單扼要讓國人知道謝謝好接下來請全序部發言完畢之後"},{"start":12961.935,"end":12981.928,"text":"請內政部準備發言然後警政署、消防署兩位署長也請簡短二要表達立場請謝謝院長還有大院的各位委員很謝謝大院有這個機會讓全區部在這裡就這個議案做進一步再一次說明那我想剛剛這個"},{"start":12984.125,"end":13007.173,"text":"黃國昌總召有提到就是說在協商的時候確實一路講說應該用數據科學來談這個問題那所以上禮拜四做這個協商的時候他還說我們是不是要回去再做一些不同的試算的一個試算確實我們因為禮拜四我們禮拜五就找精算一直來談這個事情那事實上部裡面現在也開始在繼續進行這個可能不同這個"},{"start":13009.854,"end":13033.333,"text":"替代力上限的一個試算不過我想黃委員知道也同意說這需要時間不過我們一定會負責任的把一些數據算出來提供給這個大院的委員做參考我想這是一個這個案子必須要建立在很多事實的基礎上來供大院來做討論可能是比較好的一個方式那全區部呢對這個案子的目前的看法我們是真的"},{"start":13033.813,"end":13053.371,"text":"建議這個案子不要通過我想很少這個部長這麼勇敢的這樣在大院裡面這樣處理那我要講我的理由因為全區部作為主管我們全國公務人員基金的一個主管機關那大家要理解談的公務人員的退伏基金一向就是所有的公務人員跟警校一起參與"},{"start":13054.67,"end":13082.552,"text":"那軍人是另外一個基金那所以原來永遠的一個方式就是這個基金如果要永續啊核心的原則就是所有人用同樣的標準繳費所有人用同樣的標準領得這個給付然後因為年改的關係呢所有人也同樣用同樣的方式做十年的所得替代率的一個演進那所以在這個基礎下因為大家的權利義務相當所以如果任何有一個方單獨把它提高"},{"start":13083.473,"end":13108.129,"text":"那這個其實是破壞了整個核心的一個最基本的平等對待的原則那這是全區部必須再一次不斷的說明就是這個對基金的運作呢其實它嚴肅的衝擊了平等對待基金裡面所有公務同仁的一個原則所以我想這是我第一點要說明那第二點說明我知道警消同仁其實國人都很支持政府也很支持"},{"start":13108.729,"end":13134.762,"text":"那剩下就是說那我們對警消同仁照顧到底是應該以因為他有一些危險危老的特性那是以限制這部分應該多做還是要用退休金的方式去做一個解方那這個部分呢其實從基金的角度和全部的角度來講我知道內政部部長等一些問題在過去的任內裡面其實政府對於警消同仁的限制同仁待遇"},{"start":13135.482,"end":13143.48,"text":"還有相關的一些議題．全區部做的是．一些危老．一些配套做．都有在努力那我跟各位報告一件事情怎麼樣增進"},{"start":13145.492,"end":13170.795,"text":"警消同仁的﹐譬如像他大域﹐或者工作條件﹐或者工作人力這一部分政府持續在做我105年到111年在行政院擔任人事長的任內其實對警消同仁我同時至少做了兩件事情目前合爭的剩下4200位警消警察同仁其實就在我任內做了一個事情還有任內裡面也做了我們對基層的員警"},{"start":13172.165,"end":13194.676,"text":"本來年功奉旨到五百點．現在提到五百二十五點．也都是那時候做．所以其實整個政府．努力在照顧這些事情．那因為危老的特性．我們的．他待遇會比一般公務人員高．那因為一般．現職待遇比一般公務人員高．所以他退休的時候根據現行的制度算出來．他一定就是比公務人員高．所以現行的制度下．其實我們都不改．"},{"start":13195.543,"end":13221.735,"text":"他每個月領的錢就是比公務人員高那每個月領的錢會是多高以113年大概是警察人員是大概一百五萬四左右但是後面還會做一點再說調整那我們講的就是說類似這個數字我都必須要清楚的告訴國人他有這樣一個狀況那如果修法以後那那個數字當然因為他是90%不是到95%他的一個月退休金就"},{"start":13222.555,"end":13246.439,"text":"增加更高可是公務人員不會啊所以那個差距就會越拉越大那我覺得大家同樣繳同樣的錢然後退休的時候結果領的不一樣這個不是只有對限制同仁的警察人員跟消防跟非警察人員的不平是已經退休的警察人員跟已經退休的公務人員同樣會有這個問題會存在所以我必須很坦白的清楚的這樣一個一個做這樣一個說明那當然剛剛也有一些"},{"start":13251.361,"end":13274.39,"text":"執政委員也都提到我們也做了試算至少這一次的試算是以90%為上限或95%就是基金至少會提早兩年用盡那個財務我們都是用50年來估算50年來估算這是因為所有的基金按法律都這樣50年做精算所以我們負責任用50年來估算那個數字都是50年會多這些錢那基金會提早用盡兩年那這議題就是說這樣一個狀況它對財務永續"},{"start":13279.392,"end":13307.723,"text":"是沒有幫忙的然後如果說只單獨通過警察結果非警察人員沒有通過那一定原因比照我也跟各位報告說我們危老的人不是只有警察沒有醫護人員有其他還有其他人他們也不會因此這樣去做調整所以這個姿勢其實是很抵擋那如果大家都要比照到90%那我想我們之前做的年輕改革其實就就等於是"},{"start":13308.888,"end":13334.486,"text":"就我們當初做的年金改革就是讓整個年金永續的年限至少延後二十五年到三十年那如果這個案子通過再加上後面的原因比照我們可能呢就整個用錢的年薪呢會大幅的往前那個對限制所有公務同仁來講是很不公平的所以我想我是特別特別要提跟各位報告這樣一個事情那當然呢立法的技術上呢我另外提醒兩點就是說"},{"start":13336.387,"end":13362.662,"text":"我在提案裡面有看到就是說它涉及到有些提案是涉及到只限警消人員有些又把範圍擴大所以這個是一個立法技術可能等下在討論的時候也需要去注意另外一個在立法的技術上也提到說已經退休的人未來他的退休金的調整就要跟限制人員完全同步跟同幅度那這跟我們現在制度又完全不一樣那如果按照這個路走下去又是另外一個"},{"start":13364.157,"end":13378.331,"text":"警消人員跟非警消人員之間的一個不平等的一個狀況這個我想作為全區部委員的義務在這裡也把它做一個說明那整體來講我自己比較真的跟大院建議說照顧警消人員應該是透過對現職同仁的"},{"start":13381.534,"end":13404.669,"text":"各式各樣的執勤工作環境工作條件這邊的努力給他充實改善至於退休因為他是在一個基金下面我必須照顧平等原則更何況我們的退休金隨著調薪因為每年調薪退休金自然就會有一些調整當然退休人員他的調薪的方式跟限制人不一樣但是他會調整所以也有一定的這個"},{"start":13406.071,"end":13416.548,"text":"這個月退休金的一個金額達到一定的一個數額應該也足以照顧個人在退休事後的一個生活所以我想藉著這個機會非常謝謝這個大院有這個機會讓我做一個說明 謝謝"},{"start":13419.29,"end":13439.089,"text":"謝謝四部長的說明接下來請內政部劉部長跟兩位署長說明之後就是莊瑞雄委員發言請劉部長好謝謝院長謝謝各位委員對於有關警察人員的這個關心尤其我們有12位委員提案提到有關於35條第一項第四款等等的這個修正案我想我分兩個部分跟大家報告"},{"start":13441.751,"end":13456.101,"text":"其實以內政部來講我們現在最重要的事情就是先保障跟保護限職的警消還有包括空勤等等還有移民這些有關警察人員資格他們現在有的福利跟待遇跟條件"},{"start":13457.122,"end":13482.162,"text":"那剛剛泉旭部長已經跟大家報告過從一百零五年到現在我跟大家補充說明一下現在限制的警察人員的各項待遇跟福利措施一共有十五項包括他的公益信託基金或是包括這個執勤的獎金或是我們在前上個月的時候才剛剛通過的有關於這個深夜圍牢性勤務津貼知己等一共有十五項"},{"start":13482.862,"end":13498.918,"text":"那這些包括加班等等這些大概就是針對現有的現職的警察人員的各項待遇跟福利措施先跟大家做一個簡單的說明那至於在警察人員條例裡面第35條的條文修正草案裡面所明定出來的是針對退休"},{"start":13500.88,"end":13518.383,"text":"當然退休警察警消人員的範圍剛剛全序部已經跟大家報告過有些委員以警消海巡為主有些委員又加進去包括空勤或者是航空測量等機關人員所以在適用的對象上面已經有所不同至於說對於"},{"start":13519.184,"end":13545.803,"text":"警消人員所得替代率的部分第一個我們認為在平等待遇跟世代正義上面很多委員已經發表過他們的說法我就不再追序但是我所了解的部分就是有關於退休的警消人員的部分的話他所明定的職長不是只有內政部而已包括權序部還有包括像行政院的人事行政總處、主計總處、公務人員的退府基金"},{"start":13546.383,"end":13562.978,"text":"甚至各個地方政府他們也必須要付起有關於退休員警或是警消人員的退休金的給付之類的所以它的影響層面相當的廣除了說原來的退休警消人員之外會不會有退休的公教人員也會引起不同的影響"},{"start":13564.119,"end":13578.815,"text":"也就是說我們要取得它的協調跟共識到目前為止可能還有一大步有待於我們去努力那再來就是說如果按照有一些委員所提案的部分甚至說所謂的退休的這個部分的所得替代率"},{"start":13579.835,"end":13603.812,"text":"達到百分之九十或九十五趴的時候目前我們預計到的現象會第一個限職的警消人員趕快提退休那會造成現在警消人員會有空洞化也就是說資深的有經驗的他們的警員或是我們警消人員很快就要退休的時候下面的人員能不能補得上那各位委員其實非常關心在歷次內政委員會質詢的時候"},{"start":13606.795,"end":13619.888,"text":"現在的警察人員或消防人員是不是要缺額逮捕雖然我們很快就補上去但是不管是因為少子化的現象或者是因為其他的有更好的工作機會所以補的速度不弱"},{"start":13620.809,"end":13640.36,"text":"各位所預期那麼高所以我們在橫憑現在的整個狀況之下還是主張是不是跟全序部的想法一樣主張可以從長計議當然照顧現職人員是我們內政部重要的重點照顧退休的警消人員也是我們應該努力的方向以上 謝謝"},{"start":13641.581,"end":13661.862,"text":"好謝謝副部長的說明接下來請警政署張署長請表達意見副院長大會的委員大家好那首先非常感謝各位人對警察辛勞的這個照顧這一些提案的照顧那站在警視組的立場上剛剛部長有講了不管是限制了同仁"},{"start":13662.563,"end":13680.728,"text":"我們也都非常這個政府非常穩積的來提供很多的這些的照顧的方案我站在警署立場也非常感謝那同時對於退休的同仁我們有也是有必要做必要一些照顧那我想站在警署立場因為這個的主管機關是在全區部我們會協同"},{"start":13683.208,"end":13694.819,"text":"來全進部來積極來做一個積極協調辦理包括這個有關首都西道利試算完之後的結果是怎麼樣我們協同這個全進部的相關的機關來協調來積極來處理這件事情就以上的報告"},{"start":13698.92,"end":13714.75,"text":"請消防署消署長完好請院長各位委員大家好很感謝院長跟各位委員對消防體系消防人員的支持跟照顧我想過去一段時間稱呼兩位部長所提到的對消防人員的一個支持跟照顧跟福利待遇有大幅的提升"},{"start":13715.41,"end":13737.959,"text":"那最近也針對於未來的消防建設也提出二三項的建設總共會建設達到兩百三十億的經費我想對於消防體系的人員跟工作的體系的素質跟能量的提升會有很大的幫助我想消防體系這個會在秉持這個原則繼續打拚努力當然對於退休人員我們同樣的一個重視那我們會協同我們檢證署跟"},{"start":13742.741,"end":13759.118,"text":"內政部跟我們群衆部的意見共同來打拼努力謝謝院長跟國委員謝謝接下來請莊瑞銓委員發言謝謝院長和各位協商代表我剛聽了警政署長跟消防署長兩位署長就是警消界的大家長的講解我倒覺得你們算有良心"},{"start":13763.763,"end":13765.606,"text":"我在這十幾年來我們在內政委員會裡面幾乎每一次去談的就是我們警消這些危險工作對他們怎麼樣去做一個照顧那其實"},{"start":13776.072,"end":13802.996,"text":"不分黨派對我們警察跟我們下班人員我們其實大家都很盡心盡力但是今天這個案子我倒會覺得說大家應該再冷靜一下我舉個例就好了你像譬如說那個年功奉的部分我們就調了我們現在基層的警消你說六指等你現在領的是已經是八指等"},{"start":13804.295,"end":13826.665,"text":"但約好大家都喜歡啊 給你更好的照顧我們都願意啊但是呢 是不是像剛 呃 前居部長這邊剛所講的 再去試算一下人家的校方署長跟警政署長他們也認為說是應該再來做一個試算啊否則大家都 大家對這個整個退幅你一下子又把它拉回到所得替代率又超過90%"},{"start":13828.706,"end":13855.594,"text":"任何的一個政黨在執政都會碰到這樣的一個問題在台灣沒有一個政黨在一個政黨可以執政一百年沒有這樣的一個政黨所以這個是一個非常嚴肅的問題我們這個社會我們要感謝人太多警察要不要感謝當然要感謝消防人員要不要感謝當然要感謝你說海巡人員要不要感謝都要感謝所有的在為這個國家付出的我們全部都要感謝基金就像一桶水一樣"},{"start":13856.474,"end":13872.705,"text":"你要一直給他留留留你要其他的部分你怎麼放進去怎麼樣再來留進去然後對其他的人會不會有相對剝奪感如果說這一些危險工作的警察跟消防人員你那個畢竟你會覺得說我我跟基法公務人員一樣你要付錢但是我的行為比你更危險這樣就沒道理可是問題是我們把年功分又調高我們讓基層讓他在六十等的人領到八十等現在的錢"},{"start":13885.313,"end":13905.251,"text":"那又要從這個退休這個部分拉高所得替代率我們前面在做一個提升的我們一般都在講什麼都在講說因為退服那個所得替代率年金改革有稍微有降低他的工作是很危險的所以我們去把它做提高"},{"start":13906.032,"end":13906.372,"text":"阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿"},{"start":13922.932,"end":13948.62,"text":"謝謝專委選委員那跟各位黨團幹部報告接下來還有三位委員發言之後我就要喊休息五分鐘大家協商那委員這邊現在還有傅坤祺委員、劉許廷委員、鍾嘉斌委員跟柯建民委員我們就這樣因為這樣一直發言現在我總是要做結論大家還是要如果能夠達成共識最好不能達成的話就要送院會所以等一下必須要喊一個休息時間請大家來協商接下來這幾位委員發言好不好請"},{"start":13951.105,"end":13952.876,"text":"請簡短、扼要、重複的就不用再說了。請復會及委員。謝謝。"},{"start":13956.681,"end":13983.717,"text":"謝謝主席您叫我們簡短慰藥我想特別要再強調一次不管是軍人還是我們警察還是我們消防甚至海巡因為現在執政政府也要求警察要做好第二陸軍的準備事實上我們看到萬安演習照理講是一個準戰爭狀態結果演習的全部是警察"},{"start":13984.913,"end":14011.251,"text":"包括現在我們包山包海幾乎所有的工作保家衛民是軍人但是除暴安良是警察其實他們的工作都一樣越是我們的假日反而都是警察最忙碌的時候還要指揮交通還要肅竊還要除暴還有各方面的社會治安安寧等等甚至晚上的噪音都要由警察來處理"},{"start":14012.8,"end":14041.844,"text":"什麼鞭炮啊 什麼東西啊所以我想今天警察同仁我們剛剛聽到警政署跟消防署的講我覺得還有部長講 我也蠻遺憾的啦他說對現職的警察要怎麼樣改善他們的環境現在我們現今的社會跟古早的社會就已經退休了這批人那時候物質更缺乏 更艱困的年代這些警察同仁如果還心都走過來已經退休了"},{"start":14042.725,"end":14069.472,"text":"那對一個已經為國家奉獻一生的人我們都沒有辦法好好照顧他那限職的人當然會喊心那再一次要強調如果我們所得替代率修正以後限職的警察會趕著要退休這是國家該承擔的責任欸應該是要對國家要有信心才對嘛 對不對執政者要有信心嘛能夠把整個國家照顧好嘛"},{"start":14070.031,"end":14071.332,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來請劉許庭委員發言 鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":14092.246,"end":14106.065,"text":"謝謝主席這幾點立場還是要做簡單扼要的說明第一個剛剛有人講年輕改革不要開倒車當然可以這樣主張但是難道當初的粗暴通過沒有含了軍公教的心嗎難道沒有應該有若干"},{"start":14106.986,"end":14121.885,"text":"有欠考慮之處應該重新檢討嗎我想包含年改法案當初通過的時候都有講說這應該要視財務的狀況重新來做檢討那我也要提醒就是說如果我們的退休制度不夠優厚的話它其實是會影響軍公教部分人才的增補這第一個"},{"start":14122.586,"end":14148.579,"text":"第二我希望政府不要帶頭當慣老闆當我們的勞動部長已經講了撥補也是改革的時候尤其軍公教的老闆就是政府本來用同樣的邏輯跟同樣的方式合理的在財政方面提出挹注也是幫基金開源的一種方式第三我要講立足點的平等才是真平等剛剛我們總長講得非常清楚剛剛我們除了第一段第一輪發言有講了之外協情警消大量協情是跟一般公務人員最大的差別"},{"start":14149.079,"end":14177.307,"text":"所以不應該用齊頭四平等的原則跟邏輯來處理這件事情那再來我們還是要講點東西我看了全序部給的報告這其實跟當初在委員會審查這些數字基本上都是一樣的嘛其實都是一樣的可是其實當初在委員會審查的時候大家就希望說全序部針對不同的版本不同的數字提出更完善詳實的做法那我不反對這個剛剛民眾黨黨團的意見說我們多做一點射算之後再來審慎的處理我個人認為是OK的那我就希望全序部提供一些數據"},{"start":14177.827,"end":14195.781,"text":"比如說我們現在修法的版本最低替代率百分之四十五年增百分之二最高替代率百分之九十這個數字在這邊可是難道沒有其他排列組合的方式嗎我們如果最低替代率百分之五十年增一點七五呢我們如果最低替代率百分之五十五但年增一點五呢我們的最高替代率如果降到百分之八十五或八十呢"},{"start":14196.201,"end":14209.752,"text":"我希望全區部針對這些排列組合做個射算45%、50%、55%三個版本的最低替代率年增率1.5%、1.75%跟2%的三個年增的版本跟最高替代率75%、80%、85%、90%"},{"start":14212.242,"end":14239.91,"text":"來做一下來做一下計算如果我們今天決定說不要在今天就處理這件事的話那好歹我們做設算做版本的考量的時候那我們就要更多的數字的版本來做來做設算但是我最希望全序部可以如實的提供這些的資料作為大家未來再討論的一個參考但是我還是要講即便是百分之四十五百分之二百分之九十對於財務的影響也沒有大家想像中的那麼大你講一千多億幾千多億是用五十年的基準來計算如果"},{"start":14241.011,"end":14255.708,"text":"這個多撥補一千億是五十年那平均一年才兩億多啊何況我們現在處理勞保的部分一年就是一千多億啊這難道沒有有失橫貧跟比例原則嗎我覺得這些數字跟這些理路大家是值得再深思沒有錯希望全區部提供足夠的資料作為後續討論的參考以上謝謝"},{"start":14259.013,"end":14286.876,"text":"謝謝謝謝牛許廷委員發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言請謝謝主席剛剛聽到牛委員在提到未來也不排除考慮請全市府提出更完整的設算之後我們再來處理這個嚴肅的年金議題那跟剛剛民眾黨的黃總召所提到的我想方向是一致的但是還是要回應到我們的副總召所提到的當我們談軍公教的時候當我們談軍公教退府的時候我想我們毫無例外的"},{"start":14287.336,"end":14302.495,"text":"我們對於穿著制服的軍人警察消防甚至海巡我們了解到他們現職在工作當中他們的可能的風險可能的付出都遠超過其他的公教人員因此呢我們必須對於警"},{"start":14304.817,"end":14324.562,"text":"消、海巡等這些同樣性質的公務員．給予他權益上更多的保障．我想這是毫無疑問的．但是我們如果從年金的角度來出發．我們要思考到．在退休後的警消．他跟公務人員和軍人是差異．哪一個比較接近．哪一個比較大．"},{"start":14325.442,"end":14341.202,"text":"我舉例來講當我們講軍警票的時候我小時候有軍警票軍跟警的限職人員是享受到軍警票的優待當年是因為軍警的待遇較差所以社會上業者是同意在這樣的事業上給予軍警票的優惠"},{"start":14341.883,"end":14361.396,"text":"但是現階段已經沒有軍警票因為待遇都提高了反倒是不分是軍警消公務員65歲或者60歲退休之後65歲都可以乘坐敬老票所以說明了說軍警他們在在職期間的風險跟條件是相當所以我們要提議他"},{"start":14361.836,"end":14387.919,"text":"提高待遇的優待或保障．這是應該責成是內政部去做．但在退休這個撫恤．軍人跟警消不同．是用一個退撫基金．軍人的退撫基金當中．軍人所提撥的．所繳納的義務跟權利是一致的．但是警或消．他們是結合在公務人員的退撫基金當中．他們跟其他的公務員所想的權利．跟義務是一致的．"},{"start":14388.439,"end":14405.316,"text":"那儘管在限職的年之上．他們的退休年齡比一般公教人員早個五年．那可是他們的限職的待遇．以限職的月薪來講．大概以警政事階跟建任六職人來比．大概是多了大概一萬六左右．那這意味著什麼．"},{"start":14405.856,"end":14432.601,"text":"因為這在退休後的權益跟待遇呢他們在限職的時候警消人員是繳的因為他月薪較高他貢獻的是稍微多一點但是論其他退休的年資是相當於其他的公務人員早退休可能早個五年所以他的貢獻時間是較短那再以平均餘命來算目前退休的警消人員他們平均餘命跟國人是沒有差別的"},{"start":14433.061,"end":14449.406,"text":"那以他們的退休的死亡年齡來看也是跟國人差異不大換言之他們在退休之後可以享受到這樣的退伍基金的照顧的年限甚至還因為早退休比其他公務人員多享受一些時間因此從整個年金永續經營的立場來講我們認為對於警消人員的肯定應該是在限職期間的待遇跟各種安全的保障去提升應該責成內政部跟海巡相關部會去要求"},{"start":14461.829,"end":14487.783,"text":"但是呢再提到年金的部分那麼警消部分跟其他公務人員共享同一個退伍基金應該至於對於不分各種的類型的公務人員包括警消在內應該一視同仁給予均等的退休待遇這樣才是一個比較好的所以我們還是希望說未來呢我們對警消的肯定跟尊重和強化應該以債值為優先但是對於年金的部分"},{"start":14488.183,"end":14507.934,"text":"可能還是呼應剛剛黃總召跟劉委員的意思,我們可以重嘗記憶,以上謝謝鍾嘉斌委員接下來我們請柯建民總召發言之後就會休息五分鐘,大家掌握最後黃總召院長、各位委員同仁我們希望這個廢棄這個最後一個案子是在一個有理性討論的問題下來完成"},{"start":14510.641,"end":14533.907,"text":"我不想看到就是說大家來火車對撞再來釋憲再來互議因為這個道理很清楚嘛我們來講一個就是說剛剛洪本凱委員講的說我們在反改革要搞一國兩制事實上洪本凱你才是在反改革年輕改革已經改完了嘛你現在重新再來搞重新再搞一次"},{"start":14535.067,"end":14552.357,"text":"那時候聯席改革大臣花了多少時間精力還有全國聯改會議等等對於警消、圍牢警消給他多一點圍牢的待遇那時候都已經出於了所以我們今天不要用那個口號是誰在反改革自己所謂一國兩制當然是"},{"start":14554.298,"end":14582.55,"text":"當然是你們現在在搞一五兩四,怎麼會變成我們在搞一五兩四呢?剛才已經講很清楚,金人是一個系統,公務員是一個系統,警消當然包括公務員員裡面。立法在公務員員系統要覆蓋兩個制度,當然是搞一五兩四嘛。那對於剛剛胡文綺委員所談的,因為剛才劉思芳部長講得很有道理嘛。現在行政要好,退休金額要好,現在再來更好。"},{"start":14583.516,"end":14599.989,"text":"大家要搶退嘛,因為我都要去追,搞不好差不多大家都要搶退了嘛那這請問結果是哪?是我們警察那些從哪裡去補充?並不是說所謂的副運氣委員說這回到信心的問題,這是現實的問題"},{"start":14603.919,"end":14630.964,"text":"所以今天要講的就是說有一個觀念啦就是說你經驗的錢阿沒得出阿到底想不出?一定政府出了這很簡單嘛這個道理真的很簡單嘛那已經給對於對於警察人員他本來在當限制的時候我們已經給他都提好十年能夠退休提好十年能夠拿到要退休要退休"},{"start":14632,"end":14648.045,"text":"所以剛才包括情緒部部長以及內政部長大家講的很一樣我們對於限制的人我們看有什麼方法再給他多增加五百倍五百二等等這才是正辦最後回到核心事項"},{"start":14650.121,"end":14669.392,"text":"這個還是違反到憲法七十條以及憲法第七條拼的原則乃至於同時違反到財政紀議法我不希望他再來做最後衝突啦應該可以好好冷靜的考慮今天黃昌委員也談到 劉慶英委員也談到我希望大家兩獎學兩獎 我想看好不好小劉我幫你支持"},{"start":14674.591,"end":14680.744,"text":"那我們現在休息五分鐘請各黨團協商之後五分鐘之後就要宣布我們協商結論好不好協商結果好謝謝"},{"start":15179.735,"end":15191.702,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位委員各位官員請坐我們現在宣讀三個黨團大家初步的一個共識也請好請坐"},{"start":15193.106,"end":15217.931,"text":"三個團團大家一個共識就請全序部於一個月之內提供警察人員退休最低所得替代率年增率及最高所得替代率概算資料給各黨團以及審查會市部長您聽清楚了嗎我們來努力啦就是就這些做一個最基本的那個我們這個會期最後一個草案好請柯總召請發言當然"},{"start":15223.479,"end":15250.68,"text":"部長一定說要努力啦那我講的比較實際啦這種精算是一個非常繁雜的而且要負責的我比較建議就是說下一期開議你先送進來就可以因為我現在開始放暑假也沒有這個案子啦所以這個大家不要爭面子我們講的比較務實的嘛因為這個是一個非常算出來讓人家精算是"},{"start":15252.851,"end":15280.508,"text":"您講很粗我沒有意見你看 好 請那個洪書記長院長抱歉 如果這樣的話民進黨身為現在執政黨黨團如果要這樣講的話那我們代表國民黨黨團我們絕對沒有辦法接受第一 這一個案子其實從委員會的時候就已經討論了委員會在一樣在這一個會議是司法法治委員會那個時候我們的委員在詢問的時候就有講說概算的部分那個時候就沒有算出來幾個月了"},{"start":15282.289,"end":15304.074,"text":"兩個月、三個月現在我們在要求更詳細的數據這個是很負責任的態度本來我們剛剛是希望是七月底但是因為院長的高度所以我們接受一個月的時間請程序部好好的整理上一次是六月六號已經一個多月的時間那還有"},{"start":15305.971,"end":15329.306,"text":"現在我們在做的每一個事情其實都還是一樣我們當然支持改革但更重要的是我們要求的是公平跟合理性以及對於退休人員限職人員都要一樣的照顧這合作之有所以不用任何一個黨團來扣我們國民黨團帽子我們沒有反改革更重要的是我們希望是追求公平理性的部分這一點也是講給我們柯建民總召聽謝謝"},{"start":15330.669,"end":15352.612,"text":"楊瓊英委員請發言我們就準備要宣讀了非常感謝三黨的委員以及行政部門從6月6號到現在已經超過一個月那現在我們也大家都以負責任態度也的確我們必須要去修改以視照顧這些退休人員因為當時他們的薪資跟現在是不能比"},{"start":15353.152,"end":15379.377,"text":"如果股市經做我相信這個也是一個最重要的立足點不公平所以我們願意再給一個月的時間也鼓勵行政部門、權序部你們用心去把它拿出來因為數字出來我們才能夠再三檔再詳實由院長來召集來討論這個就是一個負責任的一個法案處理以上建言謝謝 剛才我已經念過了 市部長您請補充"},{"start":15381.181,"end":15396.372,"text":"院長我只是做一個補充沒有錯在第一次委員會審查的時候有請我們先做概算大概就以90%跟95%那我們在三個禮拜裡面先做了一個概算送給那個委員會那所以在第二次7月11號協商的時候那黃總長說這個90跟95是不是還不夠"},{"start":15401.576,"end":15421.716,"text":"所以他希望我們再做多做一些不同的組合的一個試算所以我剛剛一開始就報告說我們已經開始找精算師再往下更走那所以我的意思說我們現在希望就是說現在開始在一個月我們再做一些估算或者是這個我們會努力來做這個事情但是精算真的是比較複雜"},{"start":15424.77,"end":15433.802,"text":"既然大家話都講中明,政治人都看重不說穿,我們就尊重你們就好了好不好好謝謝大家"},{"start":15437.679,"end":15457.302,"text":"我要主席現在特別跟大家報告本日的協商到此告一段落也特別跟各位黨團幹部報告今天是本次院會最後一天我們要進行所有的法案清倉目前不需協商和已經有協商結論不需表決的在院會已經處理完畢共二十四案"},{"start":15458.243,"end":15477.734,"text":"剩下的議案還有二十七案有一些如洗錢防治、通傳匯組織法已經有協商結論要進行保留條文的表決其他的議案也有一些已經超過協商期一個月但是還沒有協商結論如果這些議案都要進行表決"},{"start":15479.011,"end":15499.332,"text":"那麼可能今天院會的時間會有所不夠所以針對討論事項所列尚未有協商結論又已經超過一個月協商期的議案哪一些法案要繼續協商哪一些今天要院會表決進行處理要建請各黨團來保持溝通"},{"start":15502.273,"end":15522.559,"text":"另外我們之前協商還有提到目前院會還有一些同意權的案子包括考試院委員同意權案等尚未處理針對同意權案的行使有新舊法適用的問題法治局前次協商會議已經跟各黨團提供相關意見以及該法結文格式"},{"start":15523.399,"end":15545.953,"text":"供各黨團參考現在針對如果依照新法的同意權實成我們議事處會有一個草稿提供各位黨團來參考至於未來同意權包括考委NCC委員在院會如何適用新舊法行使及其實成如何均有待各黨團來持續溝通我們"},{"start":15548.735,"end":15569.468,"text":"現在時間十二點五十分我們下午的院會兩點半繼續開會我們現在協商會議散會你剛才講的那個要處理哪要處理哪要講什麼來講啊我們提出了齁我們提出了我們就撤案沒有到一個月的也沒辦法齁兩點半的院會齁這重點是客制"},{"start":15577.162,"end":15580.969,"text":"柯先生怎麼 柯先生應該再採一下吧對啊 因為他還有一個要討論你現在是兩點半是吧"}]}},{"id":"16104","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16104","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609bd97b3c8d7fbd6d08bd03a951da4504b28aaa308df9ea37397ced958ad0dd9af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-07-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-07-16T08:30:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T23:51:00+08:00","duration":55246,"影片長度":"15:20:46","委員發言時間":"08:30:14 - 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d":2738.104,"text":"請召集委員吳委員中線補充說明吳補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外,台灣民眾黨黨團提案經第一會期第22次會議決定自委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案併案協商報告委員會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":2740.455,"end":2740.776,"text":"討論事項第33案"},{"start":2743.578,"end":2772.984,"text":"本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議農業部應調整公糧收購價格由每公斤26元調整至每公斤34元一案本案經第一會期第13次會議決定本案及修正動議並同交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":2779.212,"end":2787.718,"text":"討論事項第34案國家通訊傳播委員會組織法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":2814.505,"end":2835.257,"text":"好,我們請議事人員確認一下報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":2838.7,"end":2864.376,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月11日星期四下午20時30分地點一廠三樓會議室協商主題國家通訊傳播委員會組織法部分條文修正查案協商結論一第四條保留送院會處理二第五條第七條第八條第十條均不予修正維持現行條文三區域照審查會審查結果通過四"},{"start":2866.877,"end":2880.625,"text":"院會進行處理時,非保留部分宣讀後均予以通過保留部分暫保留保留部分院會進行處理前由各黨團推派一人依台灣民眾黨黨團、民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團順序輪流發言每人發言時間為3分鐘發言完畢後即進行保留條文之處理"},{"start":2890.351,"end":2903.461,"text":"協商主持人韓國瑜江啟臣協商代表傅坤祺、洪孟凱、林思明、翁曉玲、柯建民、吳思耀、莊烈雄、鍾嘉斌、黃國昌、黃珊珊、吳春成宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有無異議"},{"start":2907.441,"end":2931.978,"text":"無依本案主條討論時竟因協商結論處理國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第4條保留第5條維持現行條文第7條維持現行條文第8條維持現行條文第10條維持現行條文報告委員會非保留部分"},{"start":2932.839,"end":2943.75,"text":"均已處理完畢保留第四條條文留待協商討論事項第35案"},{"start":2946.974,"end":2967.176,"text":"本院委員翁曉琳等建請院會決議將郭國文委員移送紀律委員會議案本案經第一會期第16次會議決議協商後再行處理報告院會本案應上代協商協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":2971.85,"end":2985.317,"text":"討論事項第36案：本院委員翁曉琳等建請院會決議將中嘉賓委員移送紀律委員會議案：請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":2986.437,"end":3013.249,"text":"韓越委員翁曉琳、羅志強、徐宇貞等13人有鑑於中加密委員於5月17日約會中暴衝上主席臺二度撲倒陳金輝委員而將其摔傷在地中委員不僅手抱陳委員之臂腿更以頭緊貼其下半身造成陳委員臀腿處有大片淤漆傷痕、疼痛、難癌中委員此舉不僅違反《立法委員行為法》第7條第1項第5款"},{"start":3014.609,"end":3024.903,"text":"立法委員應秉持理性問證、共同維護一場秩序﹐不得有暴力之肢體動作之規定﹐各有違反刑法第277條﹐傷害罪與第304條強制罪﹐性騷擾防治法等之餘"},{"start":3029.91,"end":3055.237,"text":"因予以嚴重的譴責,原提案將中教兵委員移送本院紀律委員會及性別平等委員會等相關委員會處以最嚴厲處罰以維護本院立法委員之人身安全,是否有當請供決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子趣,大體討論後"},{"start":3056.84,"end":3084.139,"text":"即議決交付審查或禁付二讀或不予審議報告院會提案委員不說明未有委員登記不發言現在有國民黨黨團提議禁付二讀請問院會有無異議無異議本案禁付二讀"},{"start":3086.021,"end":3099.564,"text":"依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另有民進黨黨團提議交付黨團協商做以下決議本案交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":3149.534,"end":3173.176,"text":"法院會現在處理討論事項第37案本院民進黨黨團建請院會決議要求立法院應針對2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓走廊監視引帶檔案外流儀式進行調查議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":3174.384,"end":3202.094,"text":"委員民進黨黨團建於立法院系全國最高民意殿堂為維護院區內安全因應各項維安需求在院區會議室、研究大樓等均設有監視器而院區監視影像之調閱有一定的申請程序監視錄影畫面檔案並僅供申請人釐清時使用不得作為其他用途為2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓走廊監視影像"},{"start":3203.234,"end":3229.082,"text":"黨案竟由立法院流出在媒體大肆播放、轉傳不僅有違調閱原則亦有侵害各資之餘立法院監視影像涉及全體立委練習立法院相關會議之各部會人員採訪外賓、採訪媒體人員及前來立法院恰公民眾的出入、動態及隱私應嚴守《個人資料保護法》等相關規定避免遭不當利用"},{"start":3229.662,"end":3254.151,"text":"原此建請院會作成決議,要求立法院應針對2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓走廊監視影像檔案外流儀式進行調查,與依照內項院會提報調查結果,並追究相關人員責任是否有當請公決案。宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第八條第三項之規定"},{"start":3254.775,"end":3275.835,"text":"本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後,即議決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議報告委員會本案提案黨團不說明請提案黨團民進黨黨團代表林委員、楚英說明提案子去"},{"start":3286.827,"end":3314.878,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位大院同仁大家早安大家好立法院是最高的民意殿堂但是立法院現在也出現了老大哥正看著你立法院已經成為一個立委辦公的時候被監控的場域嗎在上個星期一也就是7月8號的時候立法院竟然出現了"},{"start":3316.158,"end":3340.107,"text":"有錄影帶可以直接外流的狀況我想要請問各位大院同仁立法院屬於大家的而在這裡辦公我們所面對的一言一行這樣的監視錄影帶在沒有一個合理公告的流程竟然就轉瞬間外流甚至於被拿來到處的轉播跟狂播"},{"start":3341.38,"end":3364.273,"text":"民進黨團認為這是屬於一個大家辦公的場域所有的任何一個研究大樓任何一個研究室任何一個委員會甚至於現在在我們開會的這個場域我們錄影錄音是為了做下記錄但是不是為了針對個人來進行監控"},{"start":3367.515,"end":3386.98,"text":"台灣是一個自由、民主的國家,屬於我們的影像、我們的發言在公開場域當中我們對外播送,但是為了安全的個人的影像,沒有經過當事人的同意,可以這樣流出嗎?這是一個什麼示範?"},{"start":3388.22,"end":3405.052,"text":"我們今天走在自己家裡的大樓當中我們今天走在街上難道說立法院現在要示範的是要告訴大家台灣成為一個被監控的地方嗎台灣變成是一個民意當中"},{"start":3405.812,"end":3426.629,"text":"最高的民意殿堂但是屬於立委的影像可以就這樣私自流出請問有詢問過立委個人嗎請問有詢問過民進黨黨團嗎所以在這裡民進黨團具體的要提出就是希望院會能做成決議針對立法院在2024年7月8號立法院紅樓二樓監視錄影帶外流儀式來進行調查也希望在一週之內向院會提報結果"},{"start":3434.875,"end":3452.606,"text":"今天只是民進黨團受到了這樣的不明原因的外流沒有一個合理的程序如果說今天另外的兩個黨團不論是國民黨團或是民眾黨團你們也認同默許這樣的狀況那麼我們在做一個什麼樣錯誤的一個示範"},{"start":3458.345,"end":3480.047,"text":"所以民進黨團要求針對這一次錄影帶的外流的過程要做一個報告如果今天這種在走廊上在公共空間個人或是個別黨團的影像可以流出那麼也請立法院韓國瑜院長告訴我們"},{"start":3482.037,"end":3500.546,"text":"申請程序是什麼?什麼理由可以申請?否則就會變成公報私仇、私相授受、政治操弄跟政治操作這是在立法院當中其實大家最不願意看到的議事公房可以有各自的論述"},{"start":3501.667,"end":3525.662,"text":"但是不應該用這種私密影像或者是私自的影像來做對外公開的政治操作跟政治報復因此民進黨黨團要求在最高的民意殿堂維護院內安全因應各項維安需求我們期望大院的所有同仁可以一起支持"},{"start":3527.203,"end":3546.937,"text":"來把整個報告還原也讓所有的立法委員不論朝野的立委在自己的工作場域獲得必要的安全與保障而不至於自己的個資或相關的影像會做外流否則這將是一個最錯誤的民意的示範"},{"start":3550.85,"end":3566.881,"text":"好,謝謝林委員說明提案子趣現在進行大體討論,未有委員登記,不發言現有民進黨黨團提議禁覆二讀,請問院會有無異議無異議本案禁覆二讀"},{"start":3569.651,"end":3583.279,"text":"現在依立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另外國民黨黨團也有提案交付黨團協商本案作以下之決議交付黨團協商並由民進黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第38案"},{"start":3595.899,"end":3609.453,"text":"本院民進黨黨團建請院會決議要求立法院針對2024年7月8日本院第11屆第一次會議內政委員會第27次全體委員會會議進行調查議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":3619.639,"end":3633.276,"text":"本院民進黨黨團鑒於立法院各委員會會議之召開包括初練習人員簽到、發言、登記時間等依規定居用一定的作業程序立法院各委員會會議室規則第7條規定會議室門口詮釋會議名稱並設簽到處"},{"start":3638.382,"end":3666.665,"text":"依慣例上午會議於7時30分以後下午會議於1時30分以後於會議室被妥簽到表供初列席人員親自署名簽到立法院議事規則第6條本院會議出席者及列席者均應署名於簽到簿即第60條規定各種委員會發言委員委員發言之登記由委員於開會前一小時起親自登記於該委員會登記簿長久以來"},{"start":3667.706,"end":3696.201,"text":"為各委員會所遵循辦理2024年7月8日本院第11屆第一會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議據開會通知會議時間為上午9時起依規定及慣例上午7時30分起應與會議室備託簽到表公簽到並於上午8時起辦理委員發言登記然當次會議未有委員會人員於時間內到場辦理初列席人員簽到"},{"start":3696.901,"end":3715.338,"text":"一位依法與開會前一小時起本里委員發言登記明顯違反立法院議事規則各委員會會議議事規則嚴重侵害本院委員出席會議發言之權益原此建請委員會作成決議要求立法院針對2024年7月8日本院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第27次全議委員會議為依規定辦理簽到"},{"start":3722.324,"end":3748.747,"text":"委員發言等籍相關作業已是進行調查與一座內項院會提報調查結果並追究相關失職人員責任是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後及議決交付審查或淨附二讀或不予審議"},{"start":3751.548,"end":3757.304,"text":"請提案黨團民進黨黨團代表蘇委員巧惠說明提案子序"},{"start":3765.967,"end":3784.309,"text":"主席各位同仁立法院是一個開會的地方不管是委員會或者是院會我們都應該要遵守開會的各項規則這樣才有辦法大家好好的討論在這個殿堂裡討論這不但是慣例更是規定"},{"start":3785.39,"end":3809.404,"text":"所以說實在的我們就這一次在我們7月8號的內政委員會會議發生了諸多不可取的事項我們當然希望能夠在這裡好好的請整個立法院同仁一起來討論大家可以看到這幾年來我們的委員會其實按照慣例都是在7點30分以後並"},{"start":3812.826,"end":3832.334,"text":"議事人員就會拿出了簽到表單讓各位委員逐一簽到並且在8點左右的時間讓在場的委員可以依序簽到未來發言的順序這是在立法院各委員會會議室規則第7條明擺規定會議室門口懸掛會議名稱並設簽到處"},{"start":3839.196,"end":3865.551,"text":"甚至是在立法院議事規則第6條本院會議出席者及列席者均應署名於簽到部60條規定各種委員會委員發言之登記由委員於開會前一小時起親自登記於該委員會登記部所以我剛剛說不但是慣例更是規定這當然應該要各委員會可以遵守"},{"start":3866.351,"end":3883.606,"text":"可是我們可以看到就在上個禮拜7月8號這個禮拜7月8號本院的第11屆的第一會期內政委員會27次的這一次全體委員會議我們非常遺憾的看到明明就有開會通知會議時間是在上午9點"},{"start":3886.108,"end":3908.041,"text":"7點30分不但沒有議事委員到會場來布置會場當然更沒有所謂的簽到表之後8點也沒有所謂的發驗登記單這讓所有已經到場的委員包括我本席也是內政委員會的委員完全沒有辦法依照既有的慣例"},{"start":3909.121,"end":3931.086,"text":"應該有的規則來就會議事項進行討論這是一個侵害立法委員問政權利極大的傷害如果這個事件可以就這樣輕輕帶過那麼未來是不是各委員會就可以據此主張這即將成為是新的慣例這難道是我們希望這一屆新國會"},{"start":3932.106,"end":3960.527,"text":"作成的表率、作成的慣例是這樣開先河的嗎所以我們在這裡明白的、清楚的要求建請院會能夠作成決議針對這一次的會議未依規定辦理簽到委員發言登記等相關作業這樣的事情進行調查並且於一週內向院會提出調查報告追究相關失職人員的責任請大家支持"},{"start":3965.529,"end":3985.897,"text":"謝謝蘇委員現在進行大體討論未有委員登記不發言現有民進黨黨團提議禁覆二讀請勿願會有無異議無異議本案禁覆二讀現在依立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定"},{"start":3988.413,"end":3996.028,"text":"另外國民黨黨團也有提議交付黨團協商本案做以下之決議交付黨團協商並由民進黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":4004.319,"end":4023.292,"text":"討論事項第39案本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議針對紅樓二樓招人入侵一事進行詳細調查並建請本院應加強院區管理議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":4024.059,"end":4049.175,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓有可疑小小之徒以不當手段開鎖、破窗、擅闖會議室嚴重影響本院安全為維護立法院院區之秩序和環境安全以及立法委員職員及相關部會人員之人身安全建起院會作審決議針對紅樓二樓遭人入侵一事進行詳細調查並建起本院應加強院區管理"},{"start":4052.717,"end":4077.798,"text":"嚴懲擅自闖入本院內政委員會202會議師之人事：以及考慮更換不易被外力破壞之門所是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項此規定本案經提案人說明提案只去大體討論後即一決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議"},{"start":4079.452,"end":4084.982,"text":"請提案黨團國民黨黨團代表陳委員喻貞說明提案子去"},{"start":4093.277,"end":4116.943,"text":"主席各位同仁立法院議事衝突所在多有但是呢本黨團提出這個提案是相對應於因為前一個提案民進黨在霸占內政委員會前一個禮拜7月8號的前一個禮拜霸占內政委員會軟禁議事人員之後不讓議事人員可以"},{"start":4117.543,"end":4134.045,"text":"不讓我們的這個召委可以順利的主持會議之後竟然還怕人話叫人的提出剛剛前面的那個那個相關的調查案所以本黨團不得已只好提出相對應的這個提案就是有關於7月8號"},{"start":4136.067,"end":4157.323,"text":"上午正常門被開的時間是7點但是在前一個晚上我們就發現根據調閱立法院相關的監視錄影帶我們就發現內政委員會在前一個晚上就有不明的小小之徒以不明的手段 雞鳴狗道之速入侵本院院區裡頭的紅樓202會議室"},{"start":4161.506,"end":4176.981,"text":"剛剛蘇曉薇委員說得很好我們身為立法委員、國會議員是應該身為人民表率我們來這裡是來做審查議案、增進全民福祉的事情不是來做小小之數7月8號前一個晚上根據監視錄影帶竟然有"},{"start":4184.69,"end":4204.802,"text":"我們的立法委員及不明人士一同進入以不知道什麼方式進入內政委員會用破壞門的門鎖的方式不管說有沒有破壞就是用特別的方式進入了內政委員會造成當日重要的法案無法進行因此"},{"start":4206.514,"end":4234.395,"text":"國民黨黨團提出為了保護我們立法委員職員及相關部會人員之人身安全建請請院會作成決議針對紅樓、二樓在2024年7月8日遭人入侵一事要進行詳細調查同時加強本院的院期管理嚴懲擅自闖入本院內政委員會202會議之人事我們知道除了"},{"start":4235.336,"end":4259.735,"text":"立法委員以外還有一個不知名的人士以及考慮更換因為我看到我們這個立法委員同仁裡頭有特別的有一些有特別的機敏狗道之術不知道如何就可以把鎖很任意的這個打開所以本黨團也建議請本院立法院考慮更換不易被外力破壞之門鎖以上是否有當 見請公決 謝謝"},{"start":4264.796,"end":4289.219,"text":"謝謝陳委員現在進行大體討論未有委員登記發言不發言現有國民黨黨團提議禁覆二讀請問院會有無異本案禁覆二讀現在依立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另外民進黨黨團也有提議"},{"start":4289.864,"end":4316.128,"text":"交付黨團協商本案作以下之決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第40案本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會決議成立國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會一案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":4316.997,"end":4339.597,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團有建於國家發展基金下升國發基金近年投資目標逾過半嚴重虧損如2017年投資如新股份有限公司2018年投資聯合再生能源股份有限公司由新日光能源科技、玉晶能源科技與深陽光電科技合併成立"},{"start":4340.197,"end":4362.296,"text":"於2019年投資東北光電科技股份有限公司國發基金以輪紓困基金由有勝者如心股份有限公司以造假財報坑殺投資人聯合再生能源股份有限公司不僅涉及官商勾結還將中國產製品裝設於軍事要塞國發基金投資弊案易落荒"},{"start":4362.976,"end":4386.087,"text":"而多家令人匪夷所思之投資標的﹐其公司近與府院高層關係密切﹐更讓人懷疑政府罔顧納稅人之權益﹐只顧謀取自家政商利益﹐為釐清國發基金不當投資暨管理失職之原因﹐是否存有不當外力介入﹐以及對投資標的所引申之弊案﹐有無護航放學之行為﹐"},{"start":4386.787,"end":4411.761,"text":"原依據《立法院職權行使法》第8章調查權之形式﹐建請院會作成決議轉禮國家發展基金不到投資暨管理私資調查委員會﹐要求國家發展委員會及行政院﹐國家發展基金管理委員會等有關機關﹐就特定議案涉及事項提供相關調查資料﹐於必要時依《立法院職權行使法》第59條之一舉行聽證會﹐以落實國會監督保證納稅人之權益"},{"start":4416.804,"end":4443.767,"text":"是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後即議決交付審查或寄附二讀或不予審議報告委員會本案提案黨團未推派委員說明現在進行大體討論未由委員登記不發言"},{"start":4445.695,"end":4466.221,"text":"現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議禁覆二讀請勿院會有無異議無異議本案禁覆二讀依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另有民進黨黨團提議交付黨團協商作以下之決議本案交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第41案"},{"start":4475.509,"end":4481.75,"text":"全民健康保險法第62條條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":4483.444,"end":4509.276,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會於113年5月2日舉行全體委員會議審查本案：會議由王肇慶為域名擔任主席 邀請提案委員說明提案要旨並請衛生福利部部長薛瑞元等代表練習說明並備諮詢與會員於聽取說明及詢談後進行逐條討論 完成本案審查另有保留附帶主義三項"},{"start":4510.456,"end":4527.765,"text":"原經決議,併案擬具審查報告提報院會討論本案與院會進行二讀前,須交由黨團先生院會討論本案時,由王召集委譽名補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員王委員譽名補充說明好,慢慢來"},{"start":4540.324,"end":4560.476,"text":"謝謝主席各位院會同仁大家好有關於全民健康保健法第26條條文的修正草案那我作為衛環委員會的召委已經在委員會裡面排了兩次的審議然後兩次的協商那韓院長其實也主持了"},{"start":4561.356,"end":4586.364,"text":"兩次的院會級的協商那這個條文呢我想主要它的目的就是希望可以保障點值讓我們所有醫療院所它的運作、它的營運都可以是正常的運作而不是因為我們健保總額的限制然後被七折八扣影響到醫療品質"},{"start":4588.635,"end":4606,"text":"所以這個事情在選前的時候包括當時的總統候選人侯友宇總統候選人還有當時是總統候選人的賴清德總統候選人都允諾希望可以調高到"},{"start":4606.64,"end":4621.041,"text":"建保點值1.1元的目標那今天國民黨黨團還有蘇津全委員還有包括我本人所提出來的是不同的版本有1.1元也有1.1元"},{"start":4623.169,"end":4635.464,"text":"0.95元那所有的目的就是希望來支持我們的醫療體系我們的醫護人員不要讓他們再繼續的血汗我想最近醫療現場急診"},{"start":4637.506,"end":4639.448,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：請"},{"start":4655.434,"end":4670.065,"text":"這次的修法其實要達到三個目的非常的重要第一個就是保障點值那保障點值是多少大家可以來討論那昨天最新的朝野寫商的版本"},{"start":4673.146,"end":4697.478,"text":"1.0.95那希望這個可以有共識大家往這個目標來邁進第二事實上他希望可以提高的就是我們健保總額的成長率因為我們的健保總額如果沒有適度的成長那當然餅就這麼大然後醫療院所如果他的個案量多的時候他的點值就會自動下降在疫情期間"},{"start":4698.218,"end":4700.219,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4711.96,"end":4734.182,"text":"我們希望透過這樣子的一個立法跟修法可以為醫事人員加薪我想醫護人員在第一線真的非常的辛苦在疫情期間我們都看到他們多麼堅守第一線的崗位為大家打拚然而他們所受到的待遇其實跟他們的付出"},{"start":4734.462,"end":4735.242,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4761.915,"end":4781.721,"text":"這個賴總統他當選之後他說他要打造健康台灣但我要講的是健康台灣不能是一句口號健康台灣你就要去投資我們所有的這一些醫療人員他的薪資的提升跟設備的提升我們"},{"start":4782.261,"end":4782.521,"text":"本院委員"},{"start":4799.753,"end":4800.393,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4823.78,"end":4824.28,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4845.66,"end":4869.146,"text":"本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外委員謝玉鳳等、委員楊瓊英等分別提案經第一會期第12次會議決定近負二讀並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商抱怨會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":4873.583,"end":4898.932,"text":"討論事項第42案中華民國刑法部分條文修正草案：請宣讀審查報告本院司法及法制委員會於113年4月17日召開全體委員會議並按審查本案由吳仲傑委員沖縣擔任主席除邀請提案委員及黨團說明提案要職位相關機會應邀指派代表列席說明並答覆原詢問"},{"start":4900.412,"end":4901.453,"text":"請召集委員吳委員中線補充說明"},{"start":4924.791,"end":4948.242,"text":"無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外委員賴世寶等、委員陳金輝等、委員盧憲宜等、委員盧明哲等分別提案分經第一會期第11次、第13次會議決定近乎二讀必允相關提案併案協商委員徐宇貞等提案經第一會期第12次會議決定"},{"start":4949.563,"end":4960.695,"text":"致委員會抽出近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商報告委員會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":4964.356,"end":4979.001,"text":"討論事項第43案電業法第49條條文修正草案國民黨黨團提案經第一會期第12次會議決定自委員會抽出禁覆二讀"},{"start":4980.121,"end":5008.204,"text":"並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商委員鄭天才等提案,經第一會期第13次會議決定淨富二土與相關提案,併案協商委員陳昌明等提案,經本次會議決定,自委員會抽出淨富二土與相關提案,併案協商報告院會本案因上代協商做以下決議,協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":5011.159,"end":5034.317,"text":"討論事項第44案地方制度法部分條文修正草案：請宣讀審查報告委員內政司法及法制委員會於113年4月18日召開聯席會議審查本案由內政委員會高清召集委員素梅擔任主席除邀請提案委員說明提案要旨並邀請相關經過列席報告並備諮詢"},{"start":5037.259,"end":5060.875,"text":"於報告集詢答完畢,選集進行條文審查,與會委員於聽取說明並進行準密討論後,將全案併案審查完畢,擬具審查報告提報約會討論。約會討論前需經黨團協商,約會討論時由高經召集委員素美補充說明。宣讀完畢請召集委員、高經委員素美補充說明"},{"start":5070.523,"end":5090.366,"text":"主席在場的同仁們大家早安地方制度法第33條審查報告補充說明由我召委高津素美在座跟大家說明現行的地方制度法第33條縣市議員以及鄉鎮市民代表選舉制度裡面僅僅對平地原住民有完整的參政權的保障"},{"start":5091.187,"end":5120.194,"text":"對於人口1500人以上的山地原住民或者涉及在原鄉以外地區的山地原住民卻沒有制定相關的參卷保證的政策這種沒有正當理由的差別待遇造成了政府制定原住民族政策沒有辦法落實在地方山地原住民的權益也沒有人監督也沒有人爭取"},{"start":5120.874,"end":5147.319,"text":"本席在3月13號率先提出了修法的版本並且我以召委的身份在4月18號排審將我跟鄭天才委員的法案版本逐條仔細的審查而委員會審查總共有四個大的重點第一個是法制上我們首次打破了山原平原的隔離"},{"start":5148.459,"end":5176.413,"text":"未來都會區山園平原的人數只要合計達一定的門檻就可以共同選出原民議員第二縣市山園人口達1500個人以上應該要保障一席山地原住民的議員的名額第三新增議員的席次我們是採外加保障"},{"start":5177.54,"end":5199.575,"text":"不會影響現在既有原住民還有一班議員的權益：第4 非山地鄉的鄉鎮市山園的人口：只要達1500個人以上：應該要保障一席山園鄉的鎮市民代表席次"},{"start":5201.117,"end":5228.936,"text":"經過本席溝通並且統整各方的意見之後﹐最終審查的結果﹐就按照召委高金、樹梅等21個人提案通過﹐在這裡我要特別感謝各位內政委員會的支持﹐也要謝謝我們辛苦的議事人員﹐希望待會三讀通過的時候﹐我們的族人能夠聽到這個好消息﹐謝謝"},{"start":5233.293,"end":5251.699,"text":"謝謝高金委員本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商令委員盧憲一等、委員徐富奎等分別之提案分經第一會期第11次、第16次會議決定近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商"},{"start":5252.299,"end":5264.588,"text":"委員吳立華等提案．經第一會期第16次會議決定致委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案並按協商報告院會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":5268.206,"end":5276.231,"text":"與法院黨團協商結論時間113年5月15日星期三下午27分至30、21分113年7月5日星期五上午11時11分至12時43分地點紅樓302會議室協商主題地方制度法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5287.977,"end":5307.801,"text":"協商結論一委員盧憲一等16人提案徵定第4條之1、第83條之9至第83條之11不予徵定二、第83條之2、第83條之3及第83條之7均維持現行條文不予修正三、第33條照協商條文通過盧復建"},{"start":5310.342,"end":5333.353,"text":"協商主持人高金素梅、協商代表傅坤吉、洪孟凱、林思明、鄭天才、盧憲一、柯建明、吳思堯、莊瑞雄、吳立華、陳瑩、王美惠、徐富奎、鍾嘉斌、黃國章、黃珊珊、吳純哲、麥玉珍宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有異議、無異議本案主條討論時進一協商結論處理"},{"start":5337.554,"end":5361.934,"text":"地方制度法委員盧憲一等提案第4條之一不予增訂請宣讀第33條第33條直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表分別由直轄市民、縣市民、鄉鎮市民依法選舉之任期4年連選得連任直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表名額"},{"start":5363.455,"end":5384.937,"text":"應參酌各該指轄市、縣市、鄉鎮市財政區域狀況並依下列規定與地方立法機關組織準則定之一、指轄市議員總額一、區域議員名額指轄市人口扣除原住民人口在200萬人以下者不得超過55人超過200萬人者不得超過60人"},{"start":5386.138,"end":5402.34,"text":"二、原住民一元名額﹐有平地原住民人口在2000人以上者﹐應有平地原住民選出之一元名額﹐有3地原住民人口在2000人以上﹐或改區前有3地鄉者﹐應有3地原住民選出之一元名額"},{"start":5404.693,"end":5426.761,"text":"2、縣市議員總額1、區域議員名額縣市人口扣除原住民人口在1萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在20萬人以下者不得超過19人人口在40萬人以下者不得超過33人人口在70萬人以下者不得超過43人人口在167"},{"start":5428.402,"end":5441.46,"text":"萬人以下者不得超過57人人口超過160萬人者不得超過60人但依第二目規定計算無原住民議員名額者原住民人口應計入之"},{"start":5443.092,"end":5462.628,"text":"二、原住民一元名額有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之一元名額有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應有山地原住民選出之一元名額無山地鄉之縣市山地原住民"},{"start":5463.208,"end":5484.719,"text":"平地原住民人口數均為達1500人以上者且原住民人口數在2000人以上者應有原住民選出之一元名額有離島鄉及該鄉人口在2500人以上者依前二目規定計算之名額內應有該鄉選出之一元名額鄉鎮市民代表總額"},{"start":5487.201,"end":5504.532,"text":"鄉鎮市人口在1000人以下者不得超過5人人口在1萬人以下者不得超過7人人口在5萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在15萬人以下者不得超過19人人口超過15萬人者不得超過31人"},{"start":5508.252,"end":5522.671,"text":"鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者於節目總額內應由平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額主鄉市議員由原住民選出者以及行政區域內之原住民為選舉區"},{"start":5524.213,"end":5538.725,"text":"並得按平地原住民、山地原住民或在其行政區域內劃分選舉區本法中華民國113年7月16日修正制條文施行後依第二項規定計算之縣市區域議員名額多於111年11月26日選出名額者"},{"start":5544.129,"end":5558.4,"text":"除黎大我縣人口多於111年5月31日之人口5000人以上其餘縣市人口多於4萬人以上整位以111年11月26日選出名額為其名額不適用第二項規定"},{"start":5560.512,"end":5589.011,"text":"各選舉區選出之直轄市議員、縣市議員鄉鎮市民代表名額達4人者應有婦女當選名額1人超過4人者每增加4人增1人直轄市及有山地鄉之縣市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增1人市及無山地鄉之縣"},{"start":5590.332,"end":5609.958,"text":"選出之原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增一人山地鄉以外之鄉鎮市選出之平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增一人"},{"start":5611.098,"end":5640.185,"text":"依第一項選出之指向市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表應於上屆任期屆滿之日宣誓就職該宣誓就職典禮分別由行政院內政部、縣政府召集並由議員代表當選人互推議員主持之其推選會議由曾任議員代表之諮詢者主持之年資相同者由年長者主持之宣討完畢"},{"start":5642.631,"end":5671.73,"text":"照《企業商條文》通過第83條之2、第83條之3及第83條之7均維持現行條文委員盧憲宜等提案第83條之9至第83條之11均不予增訂全案經過二讀現有國民黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有沒有一議沒有一議"},{"start":5673.014,"end":5695.526,"text":"請宣讀經過二讀之條文第33條 直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表分別由直轄市民、縣市民、鄉鎮市民依法選舉之任期四年連選連任直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表名額應參酌各該直轄市、縣市、鄉鎮市財政區域情況"},{"start":5696.486,"end":5710.222,"text":"並依下列規定與地方立法機關組織準則定之一、直轄市議員總額一、區域議員名額直轄市人口扣除原住民人口在200萬人以下者不得超過55人"},{"start":5711.383,"end":5731.224,"text":"超過200萬人者﹐不得超過62人二、原住民一元名額﹐有平地原住民人口在2000人以上者﹐應有平地原住民選出之一元名額﹐有山地原住民人口在2000人以上﹐或改之前有山地鄉者﹐應有山地原住民選出之一元名額"},{"start":5733.185,"end":5756.352,"text":"2、縣市議員總額1、區域議員名額縣市人口扣除原住民人口在1萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在20萬人以下者不得超過19人人口在40萬人以下者不得超過33人人口在70萬人以下者不得超過43人人口在160萬人以下者不得超過57人人口超過160萬人者不得超過60人"},{"start":5762.314,"end":5787.292,"text":"但依第二目規定計算﹐無原住民億元名額者﹐原住民人口應計入之二、原住民億元名額﹐有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者﹐應有平地原住民選出之億元名額﹐有山地原住民人口在1500人以上﹐或有山地鄉者﹐應有山地原住民選出之億元名額"},{"start":5788.172,"end":5810.904,"text":"無山地鄉之縣市山地原住民平地原住民人口數均未達1500人以上者且原住民人口數在2000人以上者應有原住民選出之一元名額有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者依前二目規定計算之名額內應有該鄉選出之一元名額"},{"start":5813.185,"end":5831.62,"text":"3、鄉鎮市民代表總額1、鄉鎮市人口在1000人以下者不得超過5人人口在1萬人以下者不得超過7人人口在5萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在15萬人以下者不得超過19人人口超過15萬人者不得超過31人"},{"start":5835.162,"end":5853.043,"text":"2、鄉鎮市由平地原住民人口在1500人以上者於前幕總額內應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額職交市議員由原住民選出者以及行政區域內之原住民為選舉區並得按平地原住民、山地原住民"},{"start":5853.604,"end":5879.776,"text":"或在其行政區域內劃分選舉區本法中華民國113年7月16日修正之條文施行後依第二項規定計算之縣市區域議員名額多於111年11月26日選出名額者處離稻藕縣人口多於111年5月31日之人口5000人以上其餘縣市人口多於4萬人以上者外"},{"start":5880.648,"end":5885.419,"text":"以111年11月26日選出名額為起名額,不是用第二項規定"},{"start":5887.58,"end":5912.014,"text":"各選舉區選出之直鄉市議員、縣市議員鄉鎮市民代表名額達4人者應有婦女當選名額1人超過4人者每增加4人增1人直鄉市及有山地鄉之縣市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增1人"},{"start":5912.874,"end":5934.836,"text":"日籍無山地鄉之縣選出之原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額,超過4人者,每增加4人增一人山地鄉以外之鄉鎮市選出之平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額,超過4人者,每增加4人增一人"},{"start":5935.777,"end":5962.552,"text":"以丁向選出之指向市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表應於上屆任期屆滿之日宣誓就職該宣誓就職典禮分別由行政院內政部、縣政府召集並由議員、代表當選人、互推議員主持之其推選會議由曾任議員、代表者之身者主持之年資相同者由年長者主持之宣讀完畢"},{"start":5966.047,"end":5977.328,"text":"三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正無文字修正決議地方制度法第33條條文修正通過"},{"start":5984.755,"end":5996.894,"text":"完成立法程序後現有委員登記發言每位委員發言時間兩分鐘並截止發言登記首先請伍麗華委員發言"},{"start":6018.171,"end":6045.523,"text":"主席各位立院同仁大家好很高興地方制度法第33條在今天終於三讀通過在去年4月的時候我特別在質詢中提出以彰化縣為例3100人的平原可以選出平地原住民一員但3192人的山地原住民卻不能有山地原住民一員"},{"start":6047.268,"end":6073.939,"text":"並且山原也不能參選一般區域議員的選舉也不能參選平地原住民議員的選舉這不僅僅違背了憲法第129條選舉普通的原則也就是說不得以族群等因素限制人民的選舉權這不但是剝奪了個人的權利也是剝奪了族群集體的權利"},{"start":6075.339,"end":6087.712,"text":"因此我主張同樣的一部地方制度法我們一般縣市應該要立刻比照我們的直轄縣市的做法區分出三元平原的議員選舉"},{"start":6089.673,"end":6113.95,"text":"今天我很高興在過去我們的族人所提出這樣不公平不正義的陳情終於在今天在大家的努力之下在內政委員會的排審大家的協商之下終於能夠走到三讀我對於今天這樣的一個結果我想要告訴我們的族人"},{"start":6115.307,"end":6139.374,"text":"在下一次的選舉張化縣雲林縣新竹市基隆市族人們我們終於可以擁有山地原住民一人的選舉未來我想參政的這條路我們的族人還有很多的權益要來共同的爭取我們會跟大家一起繼續努力謝謝大家"},{"start":6143.087,"end":6145.863,"text":"謝謝吳委員下一位請高金素美委員發言"},{"start":6156.226,"end":6174.755,"text":"主席、各位同仁、大家早安這個會期由我擔任召委之後原住民的法案我們通過了非常多所以今天我也特別感謝地方制度法第33條在這邊三讀通過了本次修法我完成了三大里程碑"},{"start":6176.596,"end":6196.896,"text":"法制上我們首次打破了山園和平原的隔離未來都會區的原住民不分山園或平原人數如果合計達到一定的門檻就可以共選原住民的議員完成了族人23年來未盡的志業"},{"start":6200.339,"end":6214.998,"text":"自從90年開始就有立法委員提案三元的參政權必須保障平原之後終於在今天在我召委任內"},{"start":6216.579,"end":6244.06,"text":"三讀通過了在這裡我要謝謝國民黨團一路的支持謝謝民眾黨團的支持當然也要謝謝民進黨回頭是岸那麼再來呢我還要再談的是我要恭喜彰化縣基隆市新竹市雲林縣因為我們的保障是比照平原之後呢"},{"start":6244.921,"end":6259.069,"text":"在這以上的幾個地區都會更增加一席的山地原住民議員第三個是守護屏東鄉親的權益避免少子化的關係會減少了12席的議員"},{"start":6262.671,"end":6278.547,"text":"我想原住民的族人是想要來實質解決問題的立法委員高津素梅、吉瓦斯阿利一定會堅持繼續捍衛族人的權益謝謝高津委員下一位請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":6299.284,"end":6312.407,"text":"主席、各位委員,非常謝謝達達米阿賴國發落罪高軍宿美召委在今年4月18日內政委員會協商完成之後"},{"start":6313.519,"end":6337.317,"text":"在5月15號、7月5號兩次的黨團協商促成了今天的這個法案的通過地方制度法這個已經實施很久但是對於原住民在都會期的參政前一直是保障不足今天三讀通過的條文基本上有三個幾個重點第一個就是"},{"start":6338.188,"end":6364.782,"text":"我們縣市一眼的保障名額是採外加的保障也就是在區域的總額之外所以不會影響到非原住民的名額第二個就是我們保障了沒有山地鄉的縣市只要人口達到1500人就可以有山地原住民的一眼名額另外就是如果這個都會區這個縣市"},{"start":6367.657,"end":6371.202,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":6386.5,"end":6399.003,"text":"還有雲林縣3地原住民各1期另外雲林縣也會增加平地原住民1期的名額另外就是為了因為因應少子化"},{"start":6400.431,"end":6423.57,"text":"這個屏東縣因為人口不斷減少所以我們把80萬的人口修正為70萬讓我們屏東縣的區域的議員區域選出來的議員的名額不會減少在這邊再次的來謝謝我們所有黨團能夠支持因為這次的地方制度法"},{"start":6431.774,"end":6451.801,"text":"謝謝政委員報告院會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢討論事項第45案花東快速公路建設特別條例草案本案經第一會期第13次會議決議協商後再行處理報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":6455.541,"end":6475.362,"text":"討論事項第46案本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議立即解除禁止人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸公安課、尋小山通、赴金馬棚等三里島縣旅遊觀光一案"},{"start":6476.323,"end":6486.564,"text":"本案經第一會期第13次會議決議加附黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":6489.894,"end":6508.365,"text":"討論事項第47案本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前邀請賴清德總統至立法院就職權相關之國家大政方針"},{"start":6510.407,"end":6522.184,"text":"進行國情報告一案本案經第一會期第13次會議決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":6525.679,"end":6553.499,"text":"討論事項第48案本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前依立法院職權行使法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統至立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員提出之問題一案"},{"start":6554.332,"end":6582.948,"text":"本案經第一會期第三次會議決議交付協商並請院長召集協商報告院會本案留待處理討論事項第49案本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會決議本會期延會至113年7月31日一案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":6584.008,"end":6600.8,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團有鑑於截至113年7月9日前﹐全院委員會及交通、政與及文化聯繫委員會﹐軍事委將第14屆考試院人事同意全案及國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意全案之審查報告提報委員會﹐"},{"start":6602.141,"end":6626.313,"text":"且各委員會均仍有如公益階壁者保護法草案、不在籍投票法草案、衛星廣播電視法部分條文修正草案、促進全國住宅使用特別稅條例草案、法院組織法第66條職務條文及第73條副表修正草案及高級中等校學及幼兒園、午餐公餐法草案等重大法案及待審議"},{"start":6627.868,"end":6641.638,"text":"為落實實施審查第14屆口吸院人事同意權案及國家通訊承諾委員會人事同意權案履行我國在聯合國反貪腐公約內國法化之效之國家義務及106年司法改革國際會議所達成之決議"},{"start":6647.982,"end":6672.231,"text":"保障及鼓勵接壁者踴躍揭發不法弊案建立聯能政府維護公共利益去實現保障無法返回戶籍地行使投票權之民眾參與政治的權利強化一般人民對於經營新聞節目之業者進行公眾監督而有必要可與電視新聞業者公開發行義務股權資訊揭露業務"},{"start":6675.292,"end":6692.739,"text":"財務資訊揭露義務以及採購補助與廣告收入來源揭露義務﹐以促進資訊透明並確保新聞專業自主﹐增加動物足跡控制房屋持有稅負﹐以鼓勵房屋釋出﹐減少空置並兼顧以稅制引導健全方式"},{"start":6693.919,"end":6718.436,"text":"為校園飲食安全保安、建立營養、使農教育及完善校園供餐體系實踐聯合國永續發展目標與人道經濟之進步價值以促進學生健康飲食及健全學生身心發展：建請院會作成決議本第一會期研會至113年7月31日星期三至是否有當請供決案宣讀完畢"},{"start":6719.864,"end":6747.103,"text":"依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項此規定本案經提案人說明提案只去大體討論後即議決交付審查或禁副二讀或不予審議報告委員會提案黨團未推派委員說明現在進行大體討論未有委員登記不發言現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議禁副二讀"},{"start":6749.8,"end":6767.278,"text":"請勿院會有無異議本案禁覆二讀依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另有民進黨黨團提議交付黨團協商做以下之決議本案交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":6774.038,"end":6780.568,"text":"討論事項第50案學生輔導法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":6782.148,"end":6806.027,"text":"本院教育及文化委員會於113年6月26日召開全體委員會議併案審查本案會中邀請提案委員說明提案指趣教育部部長鄭英耀及相關人員列席報告並備諮詢事後於同年7月4日召開全體委員會議繼續併案審查本案再於同年7月8日召開全體委員會議繼續併案"},{"start":6807.988,"end":6821.037,"text":"審查本案：三次會議均由柯照吉委員之恩擔任主席與會員於聽取說明及詢談後進行逐條討論：完成本案審查令通過附帶全議八項"},{"start":6823.206,"end":6846.332,"text":"令有附帶決議實案均保留送院會處理本案審查文件併案領據審查報告提醒院會公決院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由柯召集委員致恩補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員、柯委員致恩補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商"},{"start":6849.335,"end":6875.001,"text":"令行政院委員吳思瑤等分別提案：今本次會議決定近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商報告院會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理討論事項第51案警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":6876.598,"end":6893.368,"text":"本院司法及法制內政委員會於113年6月13日召開聯席會議併案審查本案由吳兆景委員宗憲擔任主席除邀請提案委員說明提案要職外內政部及相關機關應邀指派代表練習說明及答覆委員詢問"},{"start":6895.905,"end":6912.623,"text":"余或緣於聽取報告並經巡大後進行逐條審查並將全案審查完略原經決議審查完略擬具審查報告提醒院會公決本案須交由黨團寫生院會討論時由吳兆己委員宗憲出席說明宣讀完畢"},{"start":6915.189,"end":6928.906,"text":"請召集委員吳委員中現補充說明吳補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商報告院會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":6932.076,"end":6948.676,"text":"法院會現有民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團針對討論事項第一案通過之《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例》提出補充立法說明列入公報記錄法院會現在休息"},{"start":10815.745,"end":10828.657,"text":"八院會現在繼續開會進行討論事項第29案403政災重建條例草案現有各黨團共同提議本案不予審議並通過決議請議事人員宣讀決議內容各黨團"},{"start":10837.398,"end":10864.157,"text":"同意《討論事項》第29案403政災重建條例草案《討論事項》第45案花東快速公路特別條例草案軍部與審議並通過決議如附件優惠處理時﹐各黨團同意軍部發言與完成程序後依協商結論推派代表發言復婚期柯建銘、黃國昌宣讀完畢選委員會對各黨團提議有依"},{"start":10868.462,"end":10883.909,"text":"五議各黨團提議通過做以下決議本案不予審議通過決議一你要繼續念主學議啊好那請繼續念主學議"},{"start":10890.686,"end":10911.675,"text":"主決議一、403地震影響花蓮盛聚行政院自地震發生後由院長成立災害重建小組並擔任召集人協調各部會內政部花蓮0403花蓮重建專案辦公室匡列超過300億經費投入復原重建花蓮重建不難等"},{"start":10913.055,"end":10940.649,"text":"應從速從優重建尤其是因地震受損之房舍為使花蓮民眾盡速重建家園在租金補貼、弱層補強拆除重建皆投入預算補助照顧花蓮鄉親目前多數紅單房舍已進入都更及危老作業程序未來可得到容積獎勵以降低負擔如意願參加危老都更原地重建者補助以原地"},{"start":10941.429,"end":10969.17,"text":"原容積之興建成本85%為原則並為上限其辦法於2個月內定之二、0403地震災區住戶房屋因地震毀損不堪居住地方損失重大且經認定為洪灘之房屋其拆除運輸巨化之費用依法由地方政府先以災害準備金致應其餘不足部分應由中央政府全額負擔相關費用"},{"start":10971.713,"end":10985.626,"text":"3、0403大地震造成花蓮觀光重創,為災後振興地方產業,以行政院以匡列之振興預算,由經濟部交通部與花蓮縣政府共同研議,經濟部活絡業市商圈0.3599億元"},{"start":10987.908,"end":11008.564,"text":"交通部旅遊振興12.7億議員提出振興辦法以促進活絡花蓮經濟發展提案人傅坤祺、鄭天才、黃國昌、洪孟凱、吳春晨、林國成、李思明、黃珊珊、林益君、柯建銘、吳思堯、莊瑞雄宣讀完畢委員會對於各黨團的提議有依"},{"start":11017.54,"end":11023.264,"text":"沒有異議各黨團提議通過做以下決議本案不予審議通過決議如下一"},{"start":11028.073,"end":11052.509,"text":"0403地震影響花蓮盛聚行政院自地震發生後由院長成立災後重建小組並擔任召集人協調各部會內政部花蓮0403花蓮重建專案辦公室匡列超過300億經費投入復原重建花蓮重建不能等因重塑、重優、重減"},{"start":11053.49,"end":11082.309,"text":"尤其是因地震受損之房舍為使花蓮民眾盡速重建家園再租金補貼、落成補強、拆除重建皆投入預算補助、照顧花蓮鄉親目前多數紅單房舍已進入督更及危老作業程序未來可得到榮基獎勵以降低負擔如無意願參加危老督更原地重建者"},{"start":11083.368,"end":11100.9,"text":"補助以原地原容積資興建成本85%為原則並為上限其辦法於2個月內定資二、臨時離山地震災區住戶房屋因地震毀損不堪居住"},{"start":11101.721,"end":11118.716,"text":"地方損失重大且經認定為紅單之房屋其拆除、運輸、去化之費用依法由地方政府先以災害準備金指引其餘不足部分應由中央政府全額負擔相關費用"},{"start":11122.67,"end":11140.862,"text":"3.0403大地震造成花蓮觀光重創為災後振興地方產業以行政院以匡列之振興預算由經濟部、交通部與花蓮縣政府共同研議經濟部活絡業市商圈0.3599億元、交通部"},{"start":11144.505,"end":11171.419,"text":"旅遊振興12.7億元提出振興辦法以促進活絡花蓮經濟發展現在我們有委員登記程序後的發言我們每位委員發言時間兩分鐘並截止發言登記首先我們請林玉君委員發言"},{"start":11180.509,"end":11197.035,"text":"林委員有要先發言嗎還是要讓副委員先發言還是副委員要先發言我們讓林委員休息一下那現在請副坤祺委員發言時間兩分鐘"},{"start":11210.12,"end":11238.728,"text":"主席、各黨委員先進、全國的各位父老鄉親今天非常的感謝在立法院由國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨三黨共同協議來推動零四零三災後重建以及振興相關的主決議並在院會正式的來通過台灣有風有雨"},{"start":11246.131,"end":11264.059,"text":"臺灣的靠山臺灣島之所以形成是由大陸板塊跟菲律賓板塊擠壓而成而接縫的地方就在花東所以不管是天災地變往往臺灣的靠山花東人民必須很堅強地在第一線為臺灣來阻擋這些"},{"start":11267.757,"end":11271.64,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案．請"},{"start":11290.922,"end":11308.284,"text":"兼949戶的紅單跟黃單阿阿代補需要各界共同的支持更需要跟中央來攜手完成所有重建的工作讓災民不再無家可歸有一個安定生活的家還有所有善後的工作"},{"start":11308.844,"end":11309.285,"text":"併案審查行政委員"},{"start":11337.308,"end":11339.161,"text":"下一位請林益君委員發言"},{"start":11365.513,"end":11381.927,"text":"各位大家好零四零三花蓮大地震後觀光客都進不來國旅失衡加上道路中斷對花東的交通不方便一大堆問題造成花蓮的觀光一落千丈"},{"start":11382.788,"end":11403.725,"text":"然後現在國人照花蓮住宿不分平日都有提供補助然後就是要開始透過花蓮用以最以傲的觀光業來振興經濟然後蘇花鹿廊也因為地震就開始土石流然後也讓大家居民都不敢回來然後這一次的0403的大地震"},{"start":11404.245,"end":11420.491,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人�"},{"start":11428.854,"end":11429.695,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":11445.934,"end":11468.445,"text":"三黨都有做成協議就是要希望能夠快點搶救到我們花蓮能夠重建我們花蓮的光光所以現在今天是真的是讓我們花蓮人真的感受到在那麼多年那麼多次的努力下我們終於有一絲絲的曙光可以來花蓮把花蓮好好的重建"},{"start":11469.085,"end":11478.509,"text":"所以希望還有一點希望能夠趕快把捐款還有相關的預算下放真正落實在我們花蓮這次的災後重建謝謝好謝謝林委員現在登記發言的委員均已發言完畢發言會現在進行"},{"start":11491.871,"end":11501.485,"text":"討論事項第45案花東快速公路建設特別條例草案現有各黨團共同提議本案不予審議並通過決議請議事人員宣讀決議內容"},{"start":11507.425,"end":11530.477,"text":"為促進花東地區的交通安全及便捷﹐為帶動花東產業發展的重要關鍵﹐並持續提供花東地區居民一條更安全便捷道路﹐立法院權益交通部﹐儘速推動花東快速公路興建﹐花東快速公路可行性評估﹐於今年8月份完成期末報告﹐請交通部儘速完成審議程序﹐"},{"start":11532.237,"end":11558.764,"text":"並積極辦理環境影響評估、原住民部落諮商、建設計劃審議、供預算籌編、工程設計、用地取得等作業﹐依法完成相關程序後,儘早發工施工確保花東居民等通行安全﹐前後期程以12年完工為限﹐提案人﹐福崑起﹐賺天才﹐黃國昌﹐洪孟凱﹐吳春成﹐林思明﹐林國成﹐林益君﹐"},{"start":11559.624,"end":11582.16,"text":"黃珊珊、柯建銘、吳思瑤、莊瑞雄宣讀完畢請問院會對各黨團提議有無異議沒有異議各黨團提議通過做以下決議本案不予審議二、通過決議如下為促進花東地區的交通安全及便捷"},{"start":11584.087,"end":11607.52,"text":"為帶動花東產業發展的重要關鍵並持續提供花東地區居民一條更安全便捷的道路立法院決議交通部儘速推動花東快速公路興建花東快速公路可行性評估於今年8月份完成期末報告請交通部儘速完成審議程序"},{"start":11609.801,"end":11634.992,"text":"並積極辦理環境影響評估、原住民部落諮商、建設計畫審議、公務預算籌編、工程設計、用地取得等作業依法完成相關程序後,儘早發包施工,確保花東居民等通行安全,前後期程以12年完工為限"},{"start":11637.929,"end":11650.076,"text":"發言會現有委員登記完成程序後的發言每位委員發言時間兩分鐘截止發言登記首先我們邀請傅坤祺委員發言"},{"start":11665.454,"end":11691.326,"text":"主席所有立法院各政黨的委員全國所有各親愛的鄉親今天在立法院我們各政黨共同來寫歷史在花東人民一直迫切的希望能夠一條安全回家的路經過了幾十年花東人民用血淚這麼多的悲劇"},{"start":11692.745,"end":11718.224,"text":"我們後山的人民一起走過在今天立法院各政黨共同連署讓花東快速道路能夠正式來做成主決議並通過這次的大地震0403光是花蓮地區6次到8次的崩山蘇花公路"},{"start":11719.582,"end":11721.623,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具"},{"start":11744.68,"end":11768.839,"text":"這都是來自於全國跟全世界的好朋友這條安全回家路的新建是給所有中華民國國民共同來使用我想今天要特別的感謝大家能夠讓安全的路順利的來達成從台北到宜蘭通過國道5號接著銜接蘇花改再加上蘇花安"},{"start":11769.744,"end":11796.312,"text":"在銜接花東快從台北到台東市有一條完整的安全的回家的路再一次謝謝立法院各政黨大家同心協力為台灣人民一起找出路讓大家都能夠平安謝謝各位 謝謝謝謝副委員下一位請林益君委員發言"},{"start":11819.022,"end":11836.768,"text":"小小的台灣西部和東部的交通和區域發展竟然可以那麼嚴重的失衡東部的交通便利性與西部相比竟然是天差地遠西部已經好幾條高速公路但是東部連一條都沒有"},{"start":11837.668,"end":11853.137,"text":"所以其實不曉得是不是怎麼會有人反對呢那這樣大家是不是有將心比心呢所以怎麼可能對怎麼會對得起我們花東人的人民呢好站在台北的看台灣和台北觀點和西部人的觀點來決定我們花東人的命運這是我們一直長期以來"},{"start":11857.299,"end":11857.579,"text":"審議案審議案審議案審議案審議案審議案審議案"},{"start":11880.427,"end":11907.166,"text":"甚至國外的人要來花蓮都有一條安全快速的道路感謝大家的支持花東快此次真的是迎來後山日仙照謝謝大家當然也希望不是只上談兵要快速執行謝謝謝謝林委員報案會登記發言委員均已發言完畢報案會現在休息"},{"start":21636.312,"end":21650.673,"text":"報告委員會現在我們繼續開會剛才由各黨團共事各黨團同意本次會議議程所列討論事項之議案廣泛討論時由台灣民眾黨推派一位"},{"start":21651.434,"end":21669.985,"text":"民進黨黨團推派兩位國民黨黨團推派兩位發言逐條討論時由台灣民眾黨推派一位民進黨黨團推派一位國民黨黨團推派一位來發言我們現在休息繼續協商"},{"start":23491.445,"end":23520.778,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會討論事項第18案洗錢防制法修正草案本案上待溝通留待處理報告委員會討論事項第19案科技偵查及保障法草案本案上待溝通留待處理"},{"start":23522.503,"end":23541.209,"text":"報告委員會討論事項第20案外國專業人才延攬及僱用法部分條文修正草案做以下決議協商後再行處理報告委員會現在我們議場二樓旁邊的是臺北延平高中的同學歡迎大家歡迎你們哈歡迎歡迎"},{"start":23544.11,"end":23552.719,"text":"報告事項第23案野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案作以下決議協商後再行處理"},{"start":23555.626,"end":23581.013,"text":"官員會報告事項第27案本院民進黨團針對第11屆第一會期第16次會議報告事項第18案、第39案至第43案、第84案院會所作決定提出復議請公決案本案經第一會期第17次會議決議令定期處理現在我們進行處理我們"},{"start":23582.281,"end":23583.463,"text":"我們按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡請按鈴"},{"start":24015.472,"end":24032.51,"text":"報告委員會請問每一位委員是不是都有簽到都有拿到表決卡每一位委員都有拿到表決卡OK好報告委員會再一次相應會報告針對民進黨黨團"},{"start":24088.41,"end":24104.641,"text":"每個委員的表決卡都有拿到吼?好的現在針對民進黨黨團所提復議案我們進行表決現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24195.814,"end":24210.945,"text":"報告院會現在報告表決結果出席委員110位贊成51位反對59位贊成者少數報告院會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24289.773,"end":24304.843,"text":"報告委員會現在報告重複表決結果出席109位贊成51位反對58位贊成者少數我們決議復議案不通過本案報告事項照原作決定通過"},{"start":24307.232,"end":24323.74,"text":"現在我們討論事項第28案本院民進黨黨團針對第11屆第1會期第18次會議包括事項第6案、第15案及第16案院會所作決定提出復議請公決案本案經第1會期第19次會議決議"},{"start":24325.535,"end":24341.054,"text":"定期處理現在進行處理八月會現有民進黨黨團所提復議案要求進行表決而且進行記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘我們現在開始"},{"start":24421.325,"end":24427.011,"text":"報告院會現在宣布表決結果出席委員109位贊成51位反對58位贊成者少數報告院會現有民進黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24511.721,"end":24515.808,"text":"報告現在報告重複表決結果出席委員110位贊成51位反對59位贊成者少數"},{"start":24521.462,"end":24548.293,"text":"決議附議案不通過本案報告事項照原作決定通過報告委員會現在報告討論事項第30案新住民權益保障法草案報告委員會本案應上代溝通留待處理報告委員會討論事項第32案刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案本案上代溝通留待處理"},{"start":24551.118,"end":24576.183,"text":"現在我們進行報告事項第33案本院國民黨團建請院會決議農業部因調整公糧收購價格由每公斤26元調整至每公斤34元一案報院會因協商已超過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理"},{"start":24577.407,"end":24590.965,"text":"緣於本次會議提出討論報應會現在我們進行廣泛討論依黨團共識由各黨團派代表發言首先我們先請台灣民眾黨張祺凱委員發言時間3分鐘"},{"start":24611.155,"end":24633.345,"text":"我們廣大的農民朋友們苦等了13年的供糧收購終於有機會要調整了最近軍工教的薪水就要調高了今天立法院應該很有機會調高苦等13年沒有調整的供糧收購的價格"},{"start":24635.152,"end":24654.982,"text":"這次的調整只是滿足幫我們最基層、最辛苦的農民一個最基礎的生活所需因為我們現在的農民朋友啊貪無價最近這13年啊我們的物價、基本工資漲太多了只有我們農民的公糧收購13年"},{"start":24657.329,"end":24659.01,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":24684.161,"end":24691.419,"text":"台灣民眾黨是一個理性、務實、科學的政黨所以我們精算完之後我們提出"},{"start":24692.728,"end":24716.757,"text":"每一公斤的公糧收購調漲五塊錢公糧收購每一公斤調漲五塊錢另外台灣民眾黨作為一個解決問題務實的政黨我們要提出以後不要變成看天田每一年都要喊價我們期待今天調漲的同時我們制定一個公式包括把"},{"start":24717.797,"end":24741.56,"text":"物價把基本工資放進去以後工糧收購每三年依照浮動的公式來調漲一次這個在社會福利在台北市的公車的票價都是用這樣子以後工糧收購變成是一個有公式不是看天田每三年我們浮動來檢討一次這次的討論過程非常謝謝"},{"start":24743.154,"end":24762.34,"text":"有各黨的立委後來也都是支持的國民黨現在提出的版本是一公斤要調漲八塊錢經過初步的溝通兩黨已經有初步的共識我們今天往五塊錢來走那我們也期待民進黨有非常多的立法委員對我們的農民朋友也是很照顧的"},{"start":24763.96,"end":24791.67,"text":"等下表決的時候大家能夠支持台灣民眾黨所提出來的最新版本一方面每公斤調漲五塊錢第二個用公視以後每三年來讓公兩決定要不要漲漲多少第三個更重要台灣民眾黨一直在強調的是我們要這次是要滿足跟幫助我們最基層的這個農民一個生活所需所以請大家共同來支持謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":24797.939,"end":24801.32,"text":"謝謝張祺凱委員的發言 接下來請登記第二號 邱毅英委員發言"},{"start":24818.51,"end":24844.021,"text":"主席、各位同仁我們現在要討論的是關乎台灣整體農業發展秩序的公糧收購價格提高的議案公糧收購價格是不是應該提高要提高多少在立法院甚至在民間經過多次的討論我想請教大家我們很多的農民現在都在看"},{"start":24845.181,"end":24861.848,"text":"臺灣的稻農繳交公糧的大概只佔3成所以國民黨的委員說為了這3成的稻農提高公糧的收購對整體影響不會太大所以國民黨提出的版本公糧收購價格要調漲8塊錢"},{"start":24864.369,"end":24870.913,"text":"我們必須提醒大家的是公糧收購價格一旦調漲整體的產業鏈生產也會跟著調漲請問大家調漲8塊錢之後總苗業者會不會調漲會"},{"start":24882.62,"end":24896.256,"text":"待耕業者會不會調漲會肥料會不會跟著也調漲會整個稻米產業鏈的成本就會跟著一步的大幅調漲"},{"start":24897.577,"end":24926.07,"text":"而七成不繳公糧的這些稻農面對到代耕、種苗、肥料所有的產業鏈跟著調漲的時候這七成的稻農它的生產成本會不會也跟著增加一定會這就是為什麼我們反對公糧價格調漲的一個主要因素我們初步算過如果按照國民黨提的版本"},{"start":24926.67,"end":24932.612,"text":"公糧收購價格調漲8塊的話預計所需的收購經費是194.6億元194.6億元比現行的收購預算81.6億元足足要增加113億元"},{"start":24948.597,"end":24970.395,"text":"臺灣的農業應該照顧但是不是只有照顧這三成的稻農臺灣有很多包括花卉、雜糧、果樹其他的農產業都需要政府給予大力的輔導所以我們應該要支持農業部所提出來的"},{"start":24971.215,"end":24993.001,"text":"一極二轉3加3我們讓更多的農民能夠去種植優良的稻米讓農民的稻米產銷來進行集團的產作甚至轉做各些旱作的雜糧甚至我們第三個3加3我們就是提高水稻收入保險優質加強的項目"},{"start":24996.123,"end":25012.952,"text":"讓整個台灣的農產業都能夠全幅提升：懇請大家支持公糧價...謝謝邱毅英委員的發言接下來請登記第三位楊瓊英委員發言"},{"start":25024.943,"end":25050.196,"text":"我們尊敬的韓院長各位同仁、新聞界的朋友我要請教公糧收購13年不多我請問民進黨的朋友這13年我們的肥料有去嗎有沒有漲不要顛倒是非不照顧農民還要片面的污衊請大家冷靜下來"},{"start":25051.604,"end":25079.7,"text":"本集在主持經濟委員會我要特別感謝藍白綠的委員全力支持我們的農民所以因此我要說公糧收購價格13年沒有調漲嚴重的影響我們農民的權益我們看到我再次強調公糧收購價格2011年起就不動了"},{"start":25081.558,"end":25086.562,"text":"13年來基本工資漲幅53.64% 營苗每盤從28塊漲到40塊 漲幅43%我們的物價指數上漲15%以上 農藥肥料上漲將近25%"},{"start":25102.233,"end":25122.081,"text":"本卿也說農民耕作的成本不斷地在增加那麼因此國內的工資也不斷地在調整所以我們堅定認為必須要全面照顧農民我在這邊懇求所有我們的"},{"start":25123.581,"end":25144.997,"text":"藍綠白的委員待會我們希望看到一致的同意綠燈讓我們的公糧收購13年來我們給他調整五塊全面的照顧農民農業部提出針對農民有利的方案我們非常的樂見而且公開來討論"},{"start":25147.301,"end":25163.506,"text":"各位委員我們心想以農立國的台灣有什麼理由不照顧我們的農民對不對所以我要拜託我們所有藍綠白的委員待會我們要還給農民的一個公道"},{"start":25164.386,"end":25189.828,"text":"我更要告訴農業部針對農民有利的方案請你也要一定一定的精進方案出來比如說你的轉作方案我們的老農要更改要轉作不是那麼容易你要怎麼樣來協助我們的老農這應該是我們的農業部應該要提出"},{"start":25190.609,"end":25195.451,"text":"尤其我們農業的人力不足農業部你應該要提出所以最基本的我們的公糧收購價格13年沒有調漲拜託大家全力同意調漲五塊還農民公道謝謝謝謝楊瓊英委員的發言接下來請登記第4號鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":25223.704,"end":25224.846,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":25238.171,"end":25259.788,"text":"主席 各位董事 沒對一個國家的政府沒要照顧農民沒對一個政黨沒要照顧農民但是公牛和保家政策 咱們真正現出是在照顧人民半世紀進程 因為台灣人口多 咱中農生產不足所以政府有這個公牛保家的制度"},{"start":25260.589,"end":25266.032,"text":"但是經過這半世紀的演變,第一,國際農業目標,我們很多牛是可以進口第二,我們社會因此的習慣改變,我們台灣吃米吃得少,因此,這個供牛補給制度,變成補充照顧農民的生活"},{"start":25279.921,"end":25299.109,"text":"但正在想,台灣的農民雖然生意是第一大作物﹐但正在想,我們農民的土地不是只有土地﹐現在是土農當中﹐三成才符合到供牛收工的主計﹐七成的土農﹐是沒有收到這個政策的保護﹐但這個政策的結構﹐造成這幾年來﹐請愛企業機制受到迫害﹐"},{"start":25303.11,"end":25323.725,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":25328.809,"end":25334.315,"text":"在13年前,我們在市內一群島介紹條件三項,其他的補貼條件兩項,忽然間,條件五項的結果,加過去三項跟兩項的区間的差別很大。因此,大多數不是紐西哥的長農現在來專注擴大面積,作為先第二年的介紹的方法。"},{"start":25349.753,"end":25375.897,"text":"是在向公牛介紹水田收工提款﹚但像剛才說的﹚歸了各種人工的全部都增加﹚農民在中性的福祉並沒有改善﹚是在向這幾年來政府雖然沒有大幅提升公牛收工的介紹﹚但是透過其他種種的促進﹚包括說對地的綠色環境補助﹚這樣的一個制度也鼓勵農民實施轉作的制度﹚"},{"start":25376.797,"end":25390.602,"text":"實際上,農民、豬農也沒辦法全部交公牛,我們有居委收工,有福德收工,有漁農收工,所以實際上這三個小的豬農,或是所有的政策都可以在公牛介紹的步驟所以我們來看,這憲書是猜出一群人有挑戰及誤會的情形"},{"start":25395.064,"end":25414.247,"text":"是在向中農、地域、來地、看起來、歡喜、介紹提款但是在向英雄、英雄給我們其他戰友作物的介紹包括我們屏東省紅島的,現在大家都來省下,這時候英雄有企業介紹的普通對農民真的不好,第二,我們在吃飽多餘,我們未來14多年,專來對農民是更加好的,我們保育農務部來照顧中農,照顧全體農民"},{"start":25431.892,"end":25450.021,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言接下來請登記第5號丁薛忠委員發言感謝議長、縣長、各位立委、黨領大家好我在這要向我們修正各位黨領報告"},{"start":25456.879,"end":25462.843,"text":"農民的生活正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正"},{"start":25486.22,"end":25499.791,"text":"日經已經13年都沒有調整經濟統計這段期間國防部的指數升至25%基於我們公司也調供5成以上委員國一半年的基於我們公司1萬7千多個到此時已經調供到2萬7千多個另外 農民的行政主宰也跟公司都不斷的企劃"},{"start":25513.923,"end":25522.647,"text":"經濟、生活一直在增加：在官府之後：介紹、企業之後：農民的養育費：經濟費用、肥料、農業：都已經企到非常嚴重：農地所需要："},{"start":25528.851,"end":25534.054,"text":"大幅上漲的成本,造就給我們農民已經苦苦甘願。農民推到我們台灣流失穩定有重大的貢獻。這33年來,農民各行費用,贏領到重大的一個帳戶,造成我們農民經濟、經濟、利益來求遂。我們農業公共收工,所應援不可。"},{"start":25557.746,"end":25578.194,"text":"這是口頭說,照顧農民,所有生意都要做,更何況提供公牛收工介紹﹐也會對抗提供其他農作物的收益。對於農民照實際的一個工作﹐為了我們農民的管理,我們是在這裡鼓勵要求﹐行政院應該要提供公牛收工介紹﹐為公經國庫﹐"},{"start":25581.895,"end":25585.179,"text":"讓我們由26項調整至31項依然復旧擴充地產農園成分的增加﹐落實到照顧農園的一個政策﹐我們現在都聽過說的﹐"},{"start":25596.442,"end":25596.642,"text":"本院委員"},{"start":25626.822,"end":25627.763,"text":"好 感謝大家"},{"start":25644.13,"end":25662.134,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議．事日程討論事項．33案擬具在修身動椅如下藉請用會作成決議一、有鑑於公糧收購價格自民國109年起﹐期間已長達13年未調整﹐期間物價到幅上漲﹐"},{"start":25666.195,"end":25683.316,"text":"包括人工肥料、農業資材等成本提升導致農民耕作利益嚴重減損基層農民難以維持生計二、政府應對農業政策進行整體通盤考慮並平均產業發展保障國家糧食安全"},{"start":25684.057,"end":25711.529,"text":"運用科技智慧化打造農業防災安全網本院要求農業部應綜合考量各項成本包含人工肥料及物價指數將公糧收購價格在每公斤26元調升5元以上並加速提升整體雜糧種植面積之計畫以因應近年物價劇烈波動導致物農成本提高體恤基層農民之政策"},{"start":25714.622,"end":25725.067,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於公糧收穫價格自2011年起,迄今已長達13年未調整。反觀13年間,基本工資從17,880元漲到27,470元,工資漲幅53.64%。"},{"start":25732.811,"end":25756.38,"text":"央苗由每排28元上漲到40元上漲43%物價指數上漲超過15%其他如農藥、肥料上漲近25%農民耕種成本不斷增加為公糧收購價格軟體流13年前水準嚴重影響農民權益故公糧收購價格應每公斤至少提高5元以上"},{"start":25757,"end":25785.146,"text":"加以極端氣候嚴重威脅、威脅農業生產力導致農民收入的不穩定性加劇原此建請院會作成決議農業部應綜合考量各項成本及物價指數調整公糧收穫價格由每公斤26元調整至每公斤30億元提高農民基本利潤以因應近年物價劇烈波動導致物農成本增加"},{"start":25785.886,"end":25809.103,"text":"陸神照顧農民主政策：同時加速推廣國產藏糧種植：保障糧食安全：並進行建構有蓄意任性的臺灣農業：降低氣候變遷帶來的衝擊：是否有當情工決案宣讀完畢報告委員會請問委員會我們照臺灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議通過有無異議"},{"start":25815.083,"end":25831.902,"text":"沒有異議好沒有異議的話我們就照台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議通過現在報告委員會現在做以下決議一"},{"start":25832.918,"end":25847.154,"text":"有鑑於公糧收購價格自民國109年起迄今已長達13年未調帳其間物價大幅上漲包括人工、肥料、農業、資材等成本提升導致農民耕作利益嚴重減損"},{"start":25848.195,"end":25873.826,"text":"基層農民難以維持生計二政府應對農業政策進行整體通盤考量並平均產業發展保障國家糧食安全運用科技智慧化打造農業防災安全網三本院要求農業部應綜合考量各項成本包括人工肥料及物價指數將供糧價格至每公斤26元調升為5元以上"},{"start":25877.285,"end":25904.088,"text":"並加速提升整體雜糧種植面積之計劃以因應近年來物價劇烈波動導致務農成本提高體恤基層農民之政策四、農業部應綜合考量各項成本及物價指數調整公糧收購價格由每公斤26元調至每公斤31元提高農民基本利潤"},{"start":25905.56,"end":25920.047,"text":"以因應近年物價劇烈浮動導致務農成本增加、落實照顧農民的政策同時加速推廣國產雜糧種植保障糧食安全並積極建構永續韌性的台灣農業降低氣候變遷帶來的衝擊"},{"start":25928.418,"end":25935.211,"text":"報議會現在有兩個附帶決議我們來處理繼續處理院會所做的附帶決議先處理國民黨團體附帶決議共一項請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":25940.988,"end":25969.321,"text":"國民黨黨團附帶決議為保障農民權益公糧收購價格應每年參考物價指數平穩化肥價格政策後決定是否調整相關調整基準之檢討價格調整後之成效應定期公告之宣讀完畢請問院會對國民黨團所提附帶決議有無異議沒有異議我們照案通過"},{"start":25970.523,"end":25985.817,"text":"法院會現在處理台灣民眾黨團所提附帶決議共一項請議事議員宣讀附帶決議之內容民眾黨黨團附帶決議為照顧農民基本生活要求農業部因每半年內公佈公糧收購價格調整機制與共識公糧收購價格因每三年浮動檢討"},{"start":25993.764,"end":26013.644,"text":"調整一次以及時反映農業成本互動調整機制應按年檢討價格公式調整與資訊揭露方法及其他應遵行事項之規則由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢請問院會有無異議"},{"start":26016.325,"end":26018.007,"text":"沒有異議,我們決定照案通過。"},{"start":26045.202,"end":26059.781,"text":"主席各位同仁農業在台灣的經濟發展的歷史脈絡中對於促成國家產業的轉型造就當前國家的經濟榮景是功不可沒的"},{"start":26060.362,"end":26069.489,"text":"而我們的政府為了要因應全球化跟自由化以及保障農民退休的福利和減緩農業災損對於農民的衝擊也提出了多項的政策保障我們農民的權益然而公糧的收購價格卻從2011"},{"start":26080.317,"end":26086.205,"text":"至今長達13年不動如山相比基本工資從17,880元已經調漲到27,470元物價指數也增加超過15%"},{"start":26095.698,"end":26118.564,"text":"更匡論人工、肥料、農業、生產對資產成本不斷上漲﹐導致農民耕種成本越來越高﹐權益嚴重受到損害﹐今天立法院三讀通過國民黨立院黨團所提出的《建請農業部調整公糧收購價格的公決案》﹐"},{"start":26119.364,"end":26133.229,"text":"就是要農業部彎下腰來認真傾聽基層民意的心聲予以調整公糧的收購價格來提高農民耕作的利潤本席在這邊強調更要提高公糧收購價格增加了生產力的誘因"},{"start":26139.071,"end":26167.751,"text":"可能會導致價格崩盤的假設不該成為農業部不調漲的藉口政府只要積極的開拓外銷的管道就能夠做到穩定國內的生產稻穀的價格創造政府和農民雙贏的局面最後要呼籲當權者物價近年來漲幅非常的大對於農民而言已經是不可承受之重"},{"start":26168.671,"end":26194.757,"text":"應該要調高公糧的價格謝謝李玉琳委員的發言接下來請登記第二號張家俊委員發言"},{"start":26212.113,"end":26232.479,"text":"首先我要感謝國民黨團提案為農民發聲也感謝民眾黨的支持更要感謝韓院長辛苦主持協商剛剛大家都有看到民進黨講了半天結果他們也不敢表決你們說對不對民進黨只看到政治利益完全沒有為農民考量對不對"},{"start":26243.24,"end":26257.175,"text":"提高公糧收購價格5元只是農民最基本的請求農業部必須遵守決議讓基層的農民得到最基本的一份溫飽的尊嚴"},{"start":26261.058,"end":26279.904,"text":"會繳交公糧的農民都是最基層沒有能力轉型的弱勢農民農業部要鼓勵去做做品牌我們都支持但我們需要照顧這些最辛苦的農民國家政策推行了幾十年為了戰備糧食為了糧食安全"},{"start":26284.545,"end":26285.566,"text":"委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":26301.642,"end":26315.487,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人�"},{"start":26325.291,"end":26333.338,"text":"民生萬物成本都齊漲的時候只有公糧收購價格不漲我想請農業部的官員們你們 我想請問你們 你們敢走到"},{"start":26351.698,"end":26354.323,"text":"謝謝張家俊委員的發言接下來請登記第三號張祺凱委員發言"},{"start":26367.25,"end":26379.028,"text":"我們農民朋友苦苦等了13年的公糧收購今天終於通過每公斤至少要調漲五塊錢了每公斤至少要調漲五塊了"},{"start":26381.588,"end":26400.418,"text":"這是9年底開始柯文哲參選總統同場的政見之一﹐也是台灣民眾黨﹐2015年1月開始﹐不久就提案的重要的政見﹐今天終於落實了﹐印證了柯文哲跟臺灣民眾黨﹐臺灣民眾黨的立院黨團﹐對農民的照顧及支持﹐包括今天市委會在此也要特別強調﹐"},{"start":26407.282,"end":26423.441,"text":"其實這邊每公斤調漲5塊錢苦等了13年只是幫我們最基層、最善良的農民朋友滿足了他們最基礎的生活所需13年苦等13年呱呱最低的小朋友"},{"start":26424.636,"end":26447.162,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人�"},{"start":26450.603,"end":26477.884,"text":"接下來我們要做很多的事情包括最近臺美21世紀的貿易倡議美國期待跟我們談說要進口很多美國的農產品所以我們的稻米如果真的以後可以多一點生產價格可以好一點拜託一下政府應該在外銷包括跟美國談判的時候談一下我們的稻米到外銷到美國去第二個如果真的要轉做政府要多做一些努力更重要的"},{"start":26478.544,"end":26488.479,"text":"以後不要變成是一個看天田不要每年在喊價趕快制定一個公司以後每三年依照物價基本工資幫我們的工糧收購公式化好好照顧我們的農民謝謝"},{"start":26495.455,"end":26511.529,"text":"謝謝張啟凱委員的發言報告委員會每完成陳秀發言已經完畢報告委員會現在我們進入討論事項第34案國家通訊傳播委員會組織法部分條文修正草案報告委員會現在我們處理保留第4條請宣讀條文"},{"start":26515.51,"end":26544.491,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第4條本會制委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿得連任一次並不得再任本會委員由行政院院長提名經立法院統一後任命之行政院院長為提名時應指定一人為主任委員一人為副主任委員但本法第一次修正後第一次任命之委員其中三人之任期為2年本會主任委員特任對外代表本會"},{"start":26545.211,"end":26571.828,"text":"副主任委員職務比較檢任第14職等其餘委員職務比較檢任第13職等本會委員擬具電信、資訊、傳播、法律或財經等專業、學識或實務經驗委員中統一黨籍者不得常委委員總數二分之一本會委員自本法第一次修正後不分屆次委員任滿三個月前應依第一項程序提名任命新任委員"},{"start":26572.668,"end":26588.539,"text":"如因立法院不同意或出缺至委員人數未達足額時﹐行政院院長應於3個月內補足提名﹐第一項規定執行時同意全程序﹐自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起施行"},{"start":26589.961,"end":26604.257,"text":"國民黨黨團再修宣動議第4條本會智委員欽然均為專任任期四年任滿得連任一次也連任者不得再任本會委員由行政院院長提名經立法院統一後任命之"},{"start":26604.858,"end":26631.444,"text":"行政院院長為提名師：決定一人為主任委員：一人為副主任委員本把第一次抽選後：第一次任命之委員其中3人之任期為2年本會主任委員特任：對外代表本會：副主任委員職務比照緊任第14職等：勤務委員職務比照緊任第13職等本會委員應具電信、資訊、傳播：法律或財經等專業學士或學務經驗："},{"start":26634.685,"end":26654.297,"text":"委員中統一黨籍者不得招募委員總數二分之一本會委員自本法第一次修正後不分屆次委員任滿三個月前應依第一項程序提名任命新任委員委員初選時期繼任委員遵任期至原任期屆滿遵任為止"},{"start":26655.177,"end":26670.488,"text":"如因立法院不同意或初宣誓委員人數未達足約時﹐行政院院長應於3個月內補足提名第一項規定之行使同意權程序﹐自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起施行"},{"start":26672.267,"end":26690.688,"text":"民眾黨黨團修正動議第4條本會政委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿的連任隱私其中一人為主任委員特任對外代表本會一人為副主任委員職務比照檢任第14職等其餘委員職務比照檢任第13職等"},{"start":26692.33,"end":26713.166,"text":"本會議員應具電信、資訊、傳播法律或財訊等專業、學識或實務經驗本會議員自《北法》修正後不分屆次由行政院院長 以下程序任命之一、由立法院推薦9名社會公正人士就由行政院組成提名審查委員會"},{"start":26714.167,"end":26736.94,"text":"二、由行政院提出推薦名單：將由提名審查委員會審查：經全體委員互辦之同意以後：送請行政院院長提名三、就行政院院長提名之人選：經立法院同意後人名之：如因立法院不同意或出缺：是本會委員人數未達足為時：准用請向會定"},{"start":26737.88,"end":26763.632,"text":"行政院長提名時應決定一人為主政委員：一人為副主政委員：第三項第一款之提名審查委員會由陸政委員團：其在立法院所佔席次比例推薦之本會議員任其屆門為能依第三項規定提任時事同出缺本條修正規定之行使同一全程序自公佈日起施行"},{"start":26766.473,"end":26789.754,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第4條本會計委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿德理任一次其中一人為主任委員特任對外代表本會一人為副主任委員職務比照檢任第14職等其餘委員職務比照檢任第13職等本會委員應具電信、資訊、通訊"},{"start":26792.678,"end":26821.389,"text":"電信、資訊、傳播法律或財經等專業學士或實務經驗本會議員自本法修正後不分屆次由行政院院長依下列陳述以任命之一,由立法院推薦9名社會公正人士交由行政院組成提名審查委員會二,由行政院提出推薦名單交由提名審查委員會審查經全體委員過半之統一後,送請行政院院長提名"},{"start":26822.129,"end":26842.559,"text":"三、就行政院院長提名之人選﹐經立法院統一後任命之﹐如因立法院不同意或出缺﹐是本會委員人事未達阻力時﹐准用前項規定行政院長提名時﹐應指定一人為主任委員﹐一人為副主任委員第三項提款之提名審查委員會﹐"},{"start":26843.539,"end":26867.887,"text":"由各政黨團因其在立法院所佔席次比例推薦之本會員任期間滿位能議第三項規定提轉時視同出缺本條促進規定執行時同意全程序自公佈日起施行宣讀完畢報告委員會依協商結論保留條文處理前由各黨團各推派一位"},{"start":26868.871,"end":26885.882,"text":"一續台灣民眾黨團、民進黨團、國民黨團順序輪流發言每人發言時間3分鐘發言完畢之後我們即進行保留條文之處理現在進行各黨團推派之代表發言首先請台灣民眾黨黃國昌總召請發言吳思瑤委員請準備"},{"start":26904.943,"end":26932.214,"text":"院長本院委員過去這幾年號稱要獨立要專業的國家通訊傳播委員會也就是NCC的表現可以說是讓台灣社會失望透頂走到今天我們認為有必要再度冷靜的審視我們現行NCC組織法"},{"start":26935.149,"end":26954.969,"text":"所產生的NCC委員要透過什麼樣子的機制真正能夠確保他的專業性跟獨立性我們同意NCC委員的提名權應該要由行政院院長所來駕以掌握"},{"start":26956.684,"end":26967.799,"text":"我們並不贊成透過政黨比例的方式來產生NCC委員因為這樣只會讓NCC委員更為政治化"},{"start":26968.746,"end":26997.154,"text":"但是在另外一方面我們希望行政院院長他推出他的人選能夠有一個更慎重的審查機制這個更慎重的審查機制可以確保行政院院長送來立法院的名單不會是曾經自己就已經涉入弊案違法洩密的人選"},{"start":26998.396,"end":27017.25,"text":"也不會是某一個有限電視系統大亨透過他的政商影響力塞給行政院院長的人選行政院院長在提這樣人選的時候他知道沒有辦法透過審查委員會的審查"},{"start":27020.114,"end":27041.306,"text":"我們這次所提出來的修正草案的確是參訪所謂公式的模式有文言說以前公式的模式造成了程序非常的冗長沒有錯但是這個程序的冗長跟當初高比例的表決門檻"},{"start":27042.907,"end":27064.718,"text":"以及本來所提出來的人選就不是任高度相關我們在這個審查委員會當中我們並沒有設置高比例的表決門檻我們期待透過這樣的審查委員會讓我們行政院院長所提出來的人選是真正符合專業性"},{"start":27066.159,"end":27090.366,"text":"獨立系而不再是某一個政商媒體集團甚至是有線電視系統大亨所派出來的馬前卒這樣子的修正希望能夠得到各位委員的支持謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員的發言接下來我們請吳思瑤委員發言請翁曉琳委員準備"},{"start":27095.373,"end":27123.56,"text":"主席、各位同仁在審查NCC組織法修正案之前應當要試著替NCC的業務執掌去汙名化、去政治化我相信朝野的立委及社會大眾卸下有色的眼鏡不要把NCC視為高度政治性的機關剛剛民眾黨的代表說要捍衛NCC的專業性、獨立性但是"},{"start":27125.055,"end":27141.145,"text":"難道就是透過一個政黨比例產生審查會的機制就能夠捍衛它的專業性或獨立性嗎又或者這不就是大剌剌的讓政治政黨的黑手介入NCC的人事同意權嗎不過是轉了個彎但是殊途同歸"},{"start":27147.029,"end":27164.981,"text":"事實上NCC每年辦理4到6萬件的民生業務不管是電信網路基地台的審驗、消防警用電台、廣播電台、建築物電信設備、國內外電信設備的驗證、發照等等這些都攸關人民的生活"},{"start":27165.862,"end":27183.742,"text":"如果國會遲遲延宕了NCC的人事同意權或是透過修正組織法的方式設下構成了NCC正常運作的層層阻礙對於人民的日常生活將發生巨大的影響"},{"start":27185.143,"end":27200.528,"text":"NCC的委員名單4月30就送達立法院了：到今天是第78天：非常遺憾在在野黨的阻礙之下程序委員會院會就擋了9次：到上週五才復為審查"},{"start":27202.689,"end":27217.444,"text":"組織法的部分雖然國民黨已經撤回他們的違憲版本但是民眾黨以公式的模式要產生新任委員我要再說一次本質都是一樣都可能有違憲之餘"},{"start":27219.346,"end":27235.714,"text":"公共電視第5屆董事嚴當了968天第7屆嚴當了966天民眾黨黃國昌委員說他們的版本沒有以高比例的表決門檻所以不會發生這種嚴當產生NCC委員的阻礙誰能負責"},{"start":27240.916,"end":27265.446,"text":"誰能保證公共電視慘痛的教訓NCC要重蹈覆轍嗎又譬如說國民黨團所提的修正動議限制了NCC委員的連任限制以及對於現在穩定NCC運作的這個過渡條款我們都認為應當維持原案不應採行這個修法的版本"},{"start":27266.326,"end":27275.309,"text":"立委再大也不能比憲法大再怎麼對NCC有意見也不應當無限上綱民進黨認為應當維持現行條文不予修訂謝謝"},{"start":27300.165,"end":27327.339,"text":"主席以及各位委員大家好本席代表國民黨黨團向各位說明這次NCC組織法第4條的修正理由NCC作為獨立機關本來就應該要排除上級機關對具體個案的指揮監督讓NCC有更多不受政治干擾依專業自主決定的空間如此才能確保通訊傳播自由並且建立人民對通傳會公平合理的信賴"},{"start":27328.439,"end":27351.176,"text":"但是從中天新聞台不予換照案、禁電視的深射案以及近來的王逸川手機定位泄露各自的事件當中可知道社會大眾其實對於NCC委員的立場偏頗受到政治力的操縱以及NCC功能不彰的情形多所批評嚴重質疑NCC委員的公正獨立性"},{"start":27352.498,"end":27372.934,"text":"為了確保NCC委員的超然中立本次修法經過多方整合之後主要還是在修正NCC委員的任期相關規定以防止任何NCC委員在政府當中長期掌握權力避免NCC委員濫權、集權而造成的擴權"},{"start":27374.275,"end":27395.882,"text":"同時這項修正規定也有助於幫NCC注入活水﹐讓新委員有更多的發揮﹐帶來更多的新的監理氣象首先本條修正通傳會委員﹐未來僅能夠連任一次﹐並且不得再任﹐如果一個委員已經任滿了8年﹐就不應該再任﹐以免他長期掌控和前置機關的運作"},{"start":27397.918,"end":27412.254,"text":"其次為了避免NCC委員的任期計算混亂本條也參考公平會處置法的修正規定若NCC委員出缺的時候NCC繼任委員的任期應該只能夠做到原任任期屆滿為止"},{"start":27413.695,"end":27427.551,"text":"第三為了避免委員出缺過久新增的規定要求行政院院長應該要在三個月內補足委員的提名最後就廢除現任委員在新任委員沒有上任之前可以自動延任的規定"},{"start":27428.632,"end":27456.779,"text":"眾委已經確定離職卸任的委員不僅不適合在新委員未上任前的空窗期做成任何的處分決定而且這些要卸任的委員沒有再經過立法院同意就繼續延任也是違反民主原則的綜合上面所述本次修法是希望能夠讓NCC真正符合民主專業多元並且成為真正的獨立機關希望各位委員能夠大力支持本次的修正謝謝"},{"start":27461.228,"end":27462.256,"text":"謝謝翁小林委員的發言"},{"start":27463.564,"end":27490.481,"text":"報言會現在我們各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢我們現在依序進行表決如果其中有任何一案通過我們就不再處理其他案報言會我們現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":27574.158,"end":27595.394,"text":"本院會初席委員101位贊成51位反對50位贊成者多數本院會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":27678.271,"end":27684.161,"text":"報告委員會宣布重複表決結果出席委員103位贊成52位反對51位贊成者多數"},{"start":27690.578,"end":27709.289,"text":"多數通過報院會現有謝依鳳委員聲明剛才表決與國民黨團一致報院會現有張雅玲委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報院會全案經過二讀現有國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們現在請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":27720.472,"end":27746.591,"text":"第4條本會智委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿得離任1次已連任者不得再任本會委員由行政院院長提名經立法院同意後任命之行政院院長為提名時應指定一人為主任委員一人為副主任委員但本法第一次修正後第一次任命之委員其中3人之任期為2年"},{"start":27748.112,"end":27769.933,"text":"本會主任委員特任對外代表本會副主任委員職務比照檢認第14職等其餘委員職務比照檢認第13職等本會委員應具電信、資訊、傳播法律或財軍等專業學士或實務經驗委員中統一黨籍者不得超過委員總數二分之一"},{"start":27770.573,"end":27795.291,"text":"本院委員自本法第一次修法後不分屆次委員任滿3個月前應依第一項程序提名任命新任委員委員出缺時其繼任委員之任期至原任期屆滿之日為止如因立法院不同意或出缺至委員人數未達足額時行政院院長應於3個月內補足提名"},{"start":27796.392,"end":27804.058,"text":"第一項規定之行使統一權程序自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日期施行宣讀完畢"},{"start":27825.106,"end":27830.476,"text":"現在我們要處理審查會所作之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":27833.646,"end":27854.086,"text":"要求113年7月任期屆滿之原任委員應比照陳耀祥主任委員公開對外宣誓除不再接受行政院提名續任外若行政院與原任委員任期屆滿前未能依規定提任時亦不再接受原任主動辭職以示負責選讀完畢"},{"start":27857.831,"end":27869.709,"text":"報告委員會依協商結論我們照案通過報告委員會我們現在完成立法程序後發言首先請登記第一位洪孟凱委員發言葉元之委員請準備"},{"start":27881.701,"end":27904.91,"text":"主席各位同仁我們剛剛通過NCC組織法第4條的修法我想在這個修法的過程裡面我們就是捍衛公平性、公正性以及公開性在這個修法裡面有三大重點第一公正性我們要求NCC的委員連任以一次為限以連任者不得在任"},{"start":27905.51,"end":27929.69,"text":"而公平性則是當委員有出缺時繼任委員的任期至原任期屆滿為止不得延用以及第三公開性行政院院長應該在三個月內補足相關的提名所以我想這跟現行的條文其實大致方向一致但是我們把現行條文有所不足之處給補齊"},{"start":27931.691,"end":27956.796,"text":"剛剛有執政黨的委員也在大體廣泛討論的時候有提到這一次NCC的委員名單我們再一次強調其實NCC的委員名單裡面4月30號以前是由陳建仁前院長提出當時我們就說責任政治應該要由新任的行政院長來提但是新任的行政院長5月20號上任之後他也沒有參與相關的提名"},{"start":27957.276,"end":27972.284,"text":"在5月31號總質詢時候要求行政院長對其提名的委員來做確認當時佐隆太子講了會儘快提出名單一直到7月9號一個半月過去了佐隆太才願意為"},{"start":27973.685,"end":27991.741,"text":"陳建仁前院長提的名單來做背書也因此我們要說在這一次的NCC委員提名的時候嚴當的時間全都是由行政院這邊來嚴當立法部門並沒有任何的嚴當我們也在上一次院會的時候就已經讓他進入了委員會能夠來做討論"},{"start":27993.482,"end":28004.269,"text":"所以再次強調今天通過的第4條就是修正過去的不足之處讓公平性、公正性、公開性能夠讓NCC的提名更加嚴謹謝謝"},{"start":28023.919,"end":28042.698,"text":"主席各位同仁我們今天通過這個法律是讓舊有的NCC委員即便是沒有新任委員產生一樣不能延任本席認為這是一個非常公平的做法因為我們國家其他機關的委員包括像是大法官包括監察委員"},{"start":28043.559,"end":28072.198,"text":"即便是新的提名的候選人沒有經過立法院同意通通舊的都沒有延任唯有NCC委員在既有的法律是可以延任的難道NCC委員我不知道為什麼他的位階是高於大法官跟監察委員這件事情我是非常不清楚第二個如果我們可以保障舊有的委員可以不斷的延任下去那舊有的委員做得不好他還可以繼續做這也是一件很奇怪的事"},{"start":28072.978,"end":28095.109,"text":"那我們國民黨說NCC做得不好民進黨會說我們有偏見我就講民進黨也對NCC委員抱有期望譬如說當自由時報報導中共有介入政論節目的時候隔天民進黨的立委是說中共介入政論節目而藍白卻阻擋NCC的立法"},{"start":28096.009,"end":28116.459,"text":"當時他們是把這件事情把NCC跟調查中共介入責任節目畫上一個等號認為這個責任就是NCC的可是經過了這麼多個禮拜我們看到NCC對於這個事情完全沒有任何動作只有發文給工學會問他們有沒有會員有類似的狀況"},{"start":28117.279,"end":28135.878,"text":"那沒有會員承認他們的調查就此結束看得出來NCC現任委員也非常不符合民進黨的期望可是如果沒有修這個法的話這些委員就可以無止盡的延任下去因此卓榮泰院長也沒有很積極的跟立法院溝通溝通四個新的人選為什麼"},{"start":28137.279,"end":28159.155,"text":"因為他心裡還有陳耀祥這個寶阿他認為即便新的沒有經過立法院同意陳耀祥還可以繼續延任阿這就是他打算嘛所以通過這個法可以讓立法院...謝謝葉元志委員的發言接下來我們請登記第三號鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":28163.151,"end":28165.657,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":28170.814,"end":28195.449,"text":"主席在同委員先進剛剛聽了我們葉元智委員的說明其實忽略了事實上在我國行政院三個獨立機關當中公平教育委員會跟NCC委員一樣都有這樣的一個不斷電的裝置就是說現任委員借滿錢新任委員未產生時由現任委員繼續延任"},{"start":28197.24,"end":28213.809,"text":"為什麼一個獨立機關要有這樣的機制呢其實如果仔細看公民教育委員會裡面還有一個設計就是一個半半交錯的任期制什麼叫做半半交錯任期制每次公平會跟NCC都有兩年有半數委員屆滿"},{"start":28215.35,"end":28232.896,"text":"因此經驗得以傳承為什麼這兩個獨立機關這麼重視他的經驗傳承正是因為他的性質有延續不可中斷性國民教育委員會負責我國產業秩序的重財所以七位委員非常重要"},{"start":28233.556,"end":28256.153,"text":"在新任委員未到任之前未完成提任程序之前原任委員延續他的工作這就是原來公平教育委員的設計NCC也是比照這個原理可能誤以為這個獨立機關所謂的所謂的延任條款會造成的把持其實在這次的修正當中國民黨在這次的修正當中國民黨在這次的修正當中國民黨在這次的修正當中有提出了一些進步的更好的設計我們也予以支持"},{"start":28256.633,"end":28284.185,"text":"但是很可惜的一個對於獨立機關它的獨立性的保障以及信念傳承的設計本來就應該是越求越好但是把這個延任的設計拿掉之後會造成未來只要有獨立機關的提名未能順利的時候這個獨立機關所負責的業務就會因此而中斷所以在這裡我們對於NCC第4條第5項被因為這樣的政治量考量而予取消未來造成NCC的運作造成國家相關產業的中挫"},{"start":28285.245,"end":28291.954,"text":"我們期期與而不可也希望未來能夠持續的以更進步的修法來取代來挽回以上說明"},{"start":28304.165,"end":28319.484,"text":"主席各位同仁在探討NCC委員的產生包括行政部門的任命權以及立法院行使同意權我們不得不回到大法官解釋第613號的規範其中有一段我想分享給大家"},{"start":28320.305,"end":28337.331,"text":"基於權力分立原則行使立法權之立法院對行政院有關通傳會委員之人事決定權故非不能施以一定限制以為制衡為制衡仍有其界限除不能抵觸憲法明白規定外亦不能將人事決定權予以實質剝奪或進行取代之"},{"start":28338.271,"end":28360.661,"text":"就是這個613號的釋字案我們在委員會在朝野協商那透過充分的論述、討論、對話終於阻絕了國民黨原始要以政黨比例來提名委員的任命乃至於剛剛民眾黨團的公式模式沒有在這次修法入法我們予以肯定我們擋下了違憲的條文"},{"start":28362.122,"end":28376.713,"text":"但是呢 剛剛所通過的國民黨的修正動議第一項規定通常會的委員他的連任限制以及刪除第五項有關嚴任的規定事實上都對於NCC的職權行使造成焊隔"},{"start":28377.814,"end":28400.099,"text":"NCC守重於通訊傳播產業監理的經驗傳承：實在不一定定在任的限制：可以擔任NCC委員的：都是長期在相關領域：有相當長才：有業界：有學術的基底：但是因此來限制了他們的延任：這是非常不智：也相當可惜"},{"start":28400.879,"end":28428.168,"text":"至於過度的條款：絕非在野黨所解釋的萬年條款：是為了基於穩定NCC的日常運作：來重視台灣的通訊的民生：所以說：這一次的修法非常遺憾：但是未來：希望在野黨如他們所說的：不再阻絕NCC的人事同意權：希望能夠履行我們立法委員應付的職責：讓NCC的委員能夠完成投票："},{"start":28434.566,"end":28457.799,"text":"謝謝吳思堯委員的發言報告委員會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會我們進入討論事項第35案本院委員翁曉琳等人建請院會決議將郭國文委員移送紀律委員會議案報告委員會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後再行處理"},{"start":28459.67,"end":28478.184,"text":"報告委員會我們進入討論事項第41案全民健康保險法第62條條文修正草案本案經本次會議決議協商後提出本次會議處理報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":28481.843,"end":28499.929,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月5日星期五下午10時31分113年7月15日星期一下午30時10分地點藝廠三樓會議室紅樓302會議室協商主題全民健康保險法修正草案協商結論一第62條維持現行條文"},{"start":28503.47,"end":28522.441,"text":"並主決議如附件二、審查會保留三項附帶決議不予出力三、新增附帶決議四項通過如附件協商主持人韓國瑜將啟程協商代表柯建民、吳思瑤、莊瑞雄、傅坤祺、徐宇貞、王玉敏、王振旭、洪孟凱、廖偉祥"},{"start":28524.449,"end":28537.874,"text":"陳瑩、黃國昌、林思敏、邱振軍、黃珊珊、林月琴、劉建國、劉許廷、吳春城、陳昭芝、蘇清泉、羅志強、張志倫、張家俊、徐巧欣、盧憲毅、陳金威、楊瓊怡、徐欣穎、羅廷偉、鄭振前、蘇巧慧"},{"start":28548.48,"end":28553.703,"text":"請問院會對以上協商結論有意義?沒有意義,我們本案逐條討論時,僅因協商結論處理。全民健康保險法第62條維持現行條文,並通過決議,請議事人員宣讀決議內容。"},{"start":28573.702,"end":28589.031,"text":"為改善醫療環境維護醫事人員專業權益衛生福利部應進行健保改革具體措施於114年6月30日前達到平均點值1.0.95元以維護全國醫事人員權益宣讀完畢"},{"start":28597.908,"end":28623.478,"text":"委員會本案作以下決議全民健康保險法第62條維持現行條文不予修正並通過決議為改善醫療環境維護醫事人員專業權益衛生福利部應進行健保改革具體措施於114年6月30日前達到平均點值1.0.95元"},{"start":28626.823,"end":28637.409,"text":"以維護全國醫事人員權益報告委員會現在我們處理附帶決議審查會原附帶決議三項一協商結論均不予處理繼續處理黨團協商所作之附帶決議共四項請醫事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容附帶決議一"},{"start":28651.277,"end":28676.606,"text":"要求行政院應召開跨部會醫療改革會議提出具體改善方案及相對應之期程以回應國人的期盼並落實本次修法的意旨二要求衛福部針對指示要退出健保給付擬定時程表三個月內提交該報告至立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會審議三"},{"start":28678.854,"end":28702.55,"text":"要求衛生福利部應認定或修訂相關法規規範健保點值保障之範疇應優先用於提升醫事人員之薪酬待遇與落實本次修法之意旨四、要求衛生福利部應借鑒日本之做法一年內制定要價調整機制並與醫業界溝通"},{"start":28707.884,"end":28710.728,"text":"逐步達成合理要價宣讀完畢國民黨黨團附帶決議"},{"start":28726.041,"end":28753.291,"text":"政府應盡速持續滾動式檢討以積極回應民意往朝向一點議員的目標邁進確保全國醫事人員的權益宣讀完畢報告委員會請問有無異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過報告委員會現在完成程序和發言請登記第一號蘇青前委員發言陳昭之委員請準備"},{"start":28776.209,"end":28795.994,"text":"主席、各位同仁還有媒體朋友大家好對於今天健保法的修法沒有成功我個人是非常的失望那用主決議跟附帶決議這到底有多少效力我都打問號醫界也打問號"},{"start":28797.543,"end":28816.716,"text":"我們健保法裡面的總額制度已經實施了22年22年尤其是最近15年越來越嚴重我請問你們全民健保的滿意度是79.3%醫護人員的滿意度只有三成"},{"start":28821.564,"end":28841.519,"text":"有這個制度一直壓榨一直剝削一直踐踏一直蹂躪所有的醫護人員然後來迎合政府的光彩跑到WHA跑到瑞士在那邊吹牛台灣can help台灣沒有辦法can help現在人點滴都要need help"},{"start":28842.529,"end":28871.436,"text":"所以建保法尤其裡面的總額這三條是該道要整修要好好的徹底檢討的時候我們一些大公家醫院的院長也跑出來說一點一塊錢會衝量這是胡說八道公家醫院它的土地它的醫院的建築幾百億都是公家拿錢出來蓋每一年還有公務預算公務人員的補貼等等"},{"start":28872.791,"end":28896.684,"text":"施仁醫院、社團法人醫院﹐自己要買地、自己要買基礎﹐自己要傳解析﹐還有付薪水﹐還有更新設備﹐他們拿的健保的費用﹐跟公家醫院是一樣﹐所以最沒有立場講點責任﹐就是臺大跟榮總﹐這個是我個人的看法﹐事實上也是這樣﹐所以﹐給醫務人員一條深路﹐大家一起加油﹐謝謝"},{"start":28902.605,"end":28908.588,"text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員發言接下來請登記第二號陳昭芝委員發言請王振旭委員準備"},{"start":28916.018,"end":28931.643,"text":"主席、各位同仁本黨科主席在競選的時候確實曾經提過希望能夠讓健保點值提高到至少0.95%以上這是因為全球的醫療快速進步但是台灣長期對健康投資不足導致面臨財務困境醫療人員的專業服務費不足"},{"start":28937.505,"end":28963.948,"text":"醫療人員大量的流失新藥新科技的引進很不順利甚至這個健康醫療指標都不斷的落後臨近國家跟先進國家我在數次的協商會議中也指出健保資源的承受確實能力有限保障這個急重男悍症保障每個家庭甚至每一個人一生無法避免的這個重大疾病避免因病而平"},{"start":28964.588,"end":28982.78,"text":"這才是社會保險的主要精神然後我也要強調整個醫療的服務要仰賴各個角色包括醫療院所、醫療服務提供者以及投資及帶領新藥新科技研發的廠商跟學者都是缺一不可必須共存共好"},{"start":28983.22,"end":28998.265,"text":"民眾黨在這一次的修法中提出幾項配套措施﹐包括指示要依法退出健保﹐讓民眾適度地減少就醫的次數﹐妥善地處理過去因為專業不足而造成對藥價差的依賴﹐讓醫療人員能夠正正當當地賺取他們應有的收入﹐讓醫療院所營養有一定比例供應給改善同仁﹐由於護理師薪資待遇﹐"},{"start":29008.869,"end":29033.1,"text":"那感謝各黨三長及委員們接受我們的主張以這個主決議跟附帶決議來處理我也鄭重要求衛福部能夠正式醫療的這個體系重新檢視例如包括醫療分級重新檢視是否要這麼多的醫學中心跟擴增病床確保醫療品質也算妥善的處理這個醫療資源的分配希望能夠保障醫療品質讓健保永續也達成賴總統對於健康台灣的期待"},{"start":29038.542,"end":29038.742,"text":"主席"},{"start":29059.619,"end":29072.76,"text":"各位委員同仁大家好有關《健保法》第12條修正草案經過各黨團數個月來的密切的討論、審查、協商終於在今天的院會裡提出議程來處理"},{"start":29074.827,"end":29094.374,"text":"經過這兩天密集的協商最後大家一致的認為第62條應該要維持現行的條文以主決議的方式來代替原先的修法明定要求衛福部應進行健保的改革並於明年中達平均點值1.0.95元"},{"start":29097.811,"end":29114.78,"text":"事實上昨日協商的時候衛福部邱部長也具體的承諾保證明年度的點值一定達到0.9%以上甚至可以更高此外已經清點應該由公務預算支出了一共17項"},{"start":29117.073,"end":29135.181,"text":"總費用約為300億元：花3年的時間陸續轉由公務預算來支應藉以提升健保點值：本席認為這代表衛福部重視改善點值現況的態度：也說明了執政黨已經積極地拿出各種具體的辦法應應各界對於健保現況的訴求"},{"start":29137.422,"end":29160.256,"text":"過去這段時間以來許多一屆的代表其實也針對保障點子1.1元表達憂心擔心弱勢保障點子可能因為部分院所充量服務而造成總額制度的名存實亡這對於健保的永續真的是一個很大的風險那賴總統今日也出席活動也表示打破健保總額制度可能增加醫療浪費與民眾"},{"start":29162.017,"end":29180.829,"text":"保費的負擔他認為簡單的方法不一定是最好的方法這就是包含衛福部以及民進黨過去這段時間以來提醒保障點子入法可能會面臨未來的風險一方面要感謝在野黨願意退讓維持條文"},{"start":29196.419,"end":29199.287,"text":"謝謝王振旭委員發言接下來請登記第4號陳金輝委員發言請吳思瑤委員準備"},{"start":29208.154,"end":29230.206,"text":"各位國人守護人民健康的基層醫護夥伴大家好健保點值打折就是人民健康打折經過好幾個月不斷爭取朝野協商我們終於達成協議要求政府必須在114年6月30號以前達到健保點值平均1.0.95元以維護全國醫護人員的權益促進全國人民健康"},{"start":29236.95,"end":29256.389,"text":"其實本席從來沒想過這種基礎保障人民健康權醫護工作權跟尊嚴的議案不是政府的職責怎麼會需要面臨這麼大的困難我覺得我們國民黨有義務要向大家把朝野協商的風波真相揭露"},{"start":29257.21,"end":29285.988,"text":"昨天我們在草野協商痛訴醫護地域的慘況有病患4天前在急診因為缺病床必須要坐在輪椅上接受電擊連執政黨委員都坦承自己收到沒有病床的陳情今年空前的多因此韓院長非常認真遊走於各黨團之間做溝通協調就是因為此案涉及全體的國民健康"},{"start":29286.628,"end":29313.029,"text":"最不希望看到的就是協商破局好不容易我們決定退讓以主決議的方式來處理連文字都是邱泰仁部長一筆一畫寫下來的結果民進黨團不簽就是不簽一直堅持在決議上用建請兩個字建請根本沒有法律效力說穿了沒有效果就是一張芭樂票對不對"},{"start":29315.714,"end":29331.867,"text":"從2015年蔡前總統承諾健保改革提高點值到2016年邱太元委員質詢主席總長應該取消總額再到2018年邱太元委員林靜儀委員提案保障點值1.1元"},{"start":29356.776,"end":29359.03,"text":"謝謝陳清輝委員發言 接下來請吳思瑤委員發言"},{"start":29363.066,"end":29390.701,"text":"主席、各位同仁健保是台灣的驕傲國人的滿意度高達89.7%愛知就不要害知我用幾個數字來以正視聽2003年我們的健保支出是3000億到2024年國家不斷的投資健保支出來到8700億我們再比一比蔡英文執政跟馬英九執政"},{"start":29392.261,"end":29421.321,"text":"2015年馬英九政府對於健保的支出是5908億蔡英文卸任前2023年來到8364億成長了41%也就是蔡英文的任內健保的成長年平均是4.7%相對於馬英九執政只有4.2%所以民進黨重視全民健康維持健保制度的穩健跟高品質的運作是我們的職責而我們也做到了"},{"start":29422.061,"end":29436.234,"text":"我們都支持改良醫護工作環境民進黨都支持增加健康跟醫療的投資同樣的我們會全力來投入改革健保的制度但是保障點直入法是最好的方式嗎"},{"start":29437.435,"end":29453.582,"text":"我們都希望他是強心針但可能是下錯藥因為典值入法實質取消了總額制度讓健保的制度崩潰了因為健保典值入法讓健保的財務沒有辦法控制沒有辦法預估更不要說他贊成國家財政7705億到1155億的支出更甚至這個猛藥會造成健保的"},{"start":29464.487,"end":29487.707,"text":"強者越強弱者恆弱城鄉差距的失衡更可能造成我們的健保財務難以支出會對人民的荷包開刀要調漲健保費所以沒有入法我們用主決議的方式給衛福部機會相信會在行政的措施裡頭做到國人的期待增加健康的投資維持健保的制度運行謝謝"},{"start":29491.595,"end":29512.852,"text":"謝謝吳石瑤委員的發言報告委員會各黨團派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會現在我們進入討論事項第42案中華民國刑法部分條文修正草案本案經本次會議決議協商後提出本次會議處理報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":29516.874,"end":29528.46,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月16日星期二上午9時40分地點紅樓302會議室協商主題中華民國刑法部分條文修正查案"},{"start":29530.052,"end":29556.825,"text":"寫商結論一、第77條不予修正維持現行條文二、增訂第272條之一及第286條之一均不予增訂三、第286條照寫商內容通過相如附件寫商主持人韓國瑜將啟程寫商代表傅坤祺、廖偉祥、吳思瑤、林月琴、柯建銘、林思銘、張祺凱"},{"start":29558.911,"end":29578.317,"text":"徐宇珍、徐巧欣、鍾嘉斌、羅廷瑋、黃孟楷、黃國昌、黃森翰、楊瓊英、劉許廷、盧憲伊、黃建豪、黃森翰、楊瓊英、沈伯陽、莊瑞雄、邱振軍、鄭振淺、黃珊珊、徐欣穎、吳淳澄宣讀完畢請問議員會對以上協商結論有無異議"},{"start":29582.922,"end":29585.025,"text":"我們本案逐條討論時進行協商結論處理中華民國憲法第77條維持現行條文第272條之一不予增訂請宣讀第286條"},{"start":29596.721,"end":29624.358,"text":"第286條對於未滿18歲之人施以凌虐或以他法﹐所以妨礙其身心之健全或發育者﹐處6月以上5年下有期徒刑﹐意圖盈利而犯前項征稅者﹐處5年以上有期徒刑﹐得併科300萬元下罰金﹐犯丁項征稅因而致人與死者﹐處無期徒刑或10年以上有期徒刑﹐致重傷者﹐處5年以上12年以下有期徒刑﹐"},{"start":29624.958,"end":29642.354,"text":"犯第二項之罪因而致人與死者處無期徒刑或12年以上有期徒刑至重傷者處10年以上有期徒刑對於未滿7歲之人犯前四項之罪者依依各該項是規定加重其刑至二分之一宣讀完畢"},{"start":29644.397,"end":29654.34,"text":"第286條照協商條文通過第286條之一不予增訂報告院會全案經過二讀現有國民黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議好請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":29663.803,"end":29690.902,"text":"第286條對於未滿18歲之人是以凌虐或以他法足以防害其身心之健全或發育者處6月以上5年以上有期徒刑意圖營利而犯前項之罪者處5年以上有期徒刑得併科300萬元相罰金犯第一項之罪因而致人與死者處無期徒刑或10年以上有期徒刑至重傷者處5年以上12年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":29691.522,"end":29714.048,"text":"犯第二項之罪因而致人與死者處無期徒刑或十二年以上有期徒刑致重傷者處十年以上有期徒刑對於未滿七歲之人犯前四項之罪者依各該項時規定加重起刑至二分之一宣讀完畢報院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正"},{"start":29715.25,"end":29738.086,"text":"沒文字修正我們決議中華民國刑法第286條條文修正通過報言會我們現在進行完成立法程序之發言首先我們請登記第一號黃建豪委員發言請曲曉欣委員準備"},{"start":29745.814,"end":29761.343,"text":"主席、各位委員大家好感謝各界努力我們今天終於三讀修正通過刑法286條針對虐待7歲以下兒童的加重刑期條文加重二分之一這個結果雖然不滿意"},{"start":29762.063,"end":29779.124,"text":"但至少有進步我想近年台灣各地發生了多起兒虐、校園霸凌等社會的矚目案件兩年前我看到一個新聞有一個女童被繼父虐待長期哀惡8歲的時候她體重只有13公斤而且全身傷痕"},{"start":29779.865,"end":29805.439,"text":"雖然最後有依刑法286條防害兒童發育罪來起訴但就是因為這個286防害兒童發育罪最重本刑只有5年而且無法加重期刑所以最後這個個案這個加害者最後只被判了4年2個月連法官都在判決書寫下這個是立法瑕疵這是我們立法委員不盡責是我們立法委員的怠惰"},{"start":29805.919,"end":29829.115,"text":"而這個刑法286條正是本席在這個會期最早完成修法連署提案的委員我們不只回應社會期待也回應了法官的審判那這次的修法經過各黨與司法院法務部協商的結果我們比照了刑法傷害罪及兒童法112條精神我們列入了七歲以下加重期刑二分之一畢竟我想虐待一個"},{"start":29829.855,"end":29855.559,"text":"高中生跟虐待一個學歷前的兒童不管從法律上或社會情感上適用同一種刑度是不合理的事所以我們今天第一步先來修正這個不合理我想這是一個基於法理共識覺先求有我們再求好的修法但是身為一個兩歲女兒的父親我認為對於兒童施虐本身就是罪無可赦尤其是虐童致死"},{"start":29856.319,"end":29878.255,"text":"這個施暴過程無論是故意的或是過失我想都讓兒童面臨難以承受而且無可挽回的傷痛也是國家的重大損失這樣的加害者其實我個人認為死刑並不為過這才是社會多數的聲譽期待所以希望為了修法我們能夠更加回應多數基層民眾的心聲謝謝"},{"start":29881.206,"end":29881.226,"text":"討論事項"},{"start":29900.419,"end":29927.81,"text":"發生了在去年12月的時候發生了保姆虐死孩童一案這一對保姆的姊妹呢對於年僅1歲的男童凱凱施虐致死全國嘩然大多數的民眾對於立法院希望看到的要求是對於未成年未滿7歲的孩子其實是希望能夠屬於死刑或是無期徒刑的"},{"start":29928.77,"end":29953.426,"text":"這也是本席在提案的時候的主張但是呢不管是在修法的體力或者是我們在黨團的協商當中我們都還是希望能夠再進一步所以最後的這個協商結論裡面我們呢通過了是對於未滿7歲之人犯前四項罪者依各項規定加重其刑的二分之一"},{"start":29954.526,"end":29973.031,"text":"加重刑期的二分之一我不清楚國人認為夠或不夠但是我知道當凱凱案發生的時候群眾嘩然都認為這樣子霸凌傷害孩子的兇手應該要判他們死刑或是無期徒刑"},{"start":29973.991,"end":29996.761,"text":"所以我當然也希望通過了這樣的草案之後能夠有惡毒的效果我們不要再看到下一個凱凱不要再看到下一個被霸凌致死的幼童如果還有這樣子的情況再發生的話我想這是一個開始這是一個往前的一步但是如果未來還繼續發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":29999.162,"end":30018.564,"text":"沒有辦法只用刑期加重二分之一來威嚇這些惡徒的話我相信未來在立法院我們還會繼續的來修法來保障兒童的權益不讓他們因為虐待而致死保障我們的孩子中華民國的孩子們謝謝"},{"start":30024.21,"end":30030.777,"text":"謝謝曲巧欣委員的發言接下來請登記第3號沈伯陽委員發言請黃國昌委員準備"},{"start":30043.412,"end":30068.975,"text":"好 謝謝主席那這一個關於286條這個修正當然很多人會提到最近這一個虐童的案件但我還是要這個再次呼籲就是虐童相關的案件有很多的行政措施他其實可以在第一步的時候就預防讓這件事情不要發生不管是地方政府的一個審查的機制然後還是說機構本身的審查機制這其實無名是更為重要"},{"start":30069.475,"end":30085.769,"text":"我們不希望是等到事情發生以後然後用重刑當然用重刑的確可能有威嚇的效果但很明顯的是從這幾次的修法看來它的邊際效益會越來越低但是在這邊還是要講就是專於這次286修法的一個過程"},{"start":30087.13,"end":30109.806,"text":"這個過程當中提出了很多各式各樣的刑度那這些刑度很多跟刑法的立法令有很多不合的地方那希望以後不會再有一些這些爭論但是286條本身就有一個很大的疑義是在於說當時277跟286一同在修正的時候277提高的比較多286提高的比較少那就會形成一個詭異的現象"},{"start":30111.067,"end":30140.046,"text":"因為如果我直接直接做傷害我會因為兒少法112條加重二分之一我用286的時候沒有辦法直接做加重因為它是一個特別規定但它如果是一個特別規定那你直接做傷害刑度高286即使按照這一次因為它的法定型沒有修正我們只有針對未滿7歲的加重所以我今天在協商的時候有講得很清楚它是一個比較快速大概我們因為必須要先提高刑度來做一個威嚇可能不得已的做法"},{"start":30140.606,"end":30163.053,"text":"但是在未來如果真的要預防或者說真的要以橫平性跟比例原則來講的話其實還是應該要回到第一項跟第二項去研擬到底凌虐跟傷害的不同在哪裡因為畢竟凌虐不一定會造成傷害那用這樣的一個方式呢才更能夠反映目前台灣社會的現狀也才能夠真正預防未來事件的發生謝謝"},{"start":30166.97,"end":30172.353,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言接下來請黃國昭委員發言請鐘嘉斌委員準備院長本院委員"},{"start":30191.11,"end":30215.283,"text":"當初新法在修正286條的時候我相信所有立法委員心裡面都想的是我們要對於未滿18歲的人提高對他的保護加重對他進行凌虐的處罰可是沒有想到286條在我們實務上面實際的運作上事實上已經被架空了"},{"start":30215.933,"end":30241.28,"text":"因為當傷害罪透過俄哨法112條加重期刑二分之一以後在法定刑的比較上面286條幾乎沒有適用的可能性最高法院依照想像競合從一重處斷直接適用了刑法277條的普通傷害罪跟俄哨法112條的加重期刑"},{"start":30243.709,"end":30255.047,"text":"這個問題出現在實務上面反映出了我們對於兒少保護這件事情的重要性在立法上面的確有在加強的必要"},{"start":30256.107,"end":30276.697,"text":"我也感謝看到了這個問題當初非常多的提案委員他們的用心他們對於民意的反應勇敢的提出了這個修正草案在最後修正的時候我們強化了對未滿7歲的人犯前四項的罪"},{"start":30277.597,"end":30301.874,"text":"他們的處罰就是希望對於沒有辦法保護自己的幼兒們能夠透過刑法所產生的硬報以及特別預防希望能夠加深對他們的保障這樣的修法希望讓台灣未來兒虐的事件能夠急劇減少的發生謝謝"},{"start":30306.285,"end":30310.33,"text":"謝謝黃國昌委員的發言 接下來請登記第5號鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":30318.891,"end":30345.505,"text":"主席在場委員先進對於兒少的保護是個人政府不分黨派共同的願望也是我們努力的目標其實在兒少的保護上刑法是最後手段我們都知道誠如前面幾位委員所說的在預防、阻卻、嚴懲跟嚇阻上我們必須在每一個階段都必須嚴密把關事實上對於兒少的保護我們有賴行政機關、相關主管機關在預防上做好嚴密的防護"},{"start":30346.545,"end":30371.965,"text":"然而我們也必須要求行政機關實時維持高度警覺對已經發生兒少凌虐案能夠及時加以發覺然後呢及時加以嚇阻避免不幸的發生然而當事件已經造成了我們需要有效的法令做出迅速的審判然後對它進行嚴懲那目前社會各界都對於刑法286條認為呢在適用上沒有辦法像傷害罪277條以及我們"},{"start":30374.126,"end":30400.785,"text":"《兒少法》第112條的加重期刑的方式結合來處理因此這一次我們刑法286條的一個修正我們各黨派各黨團都共同的來努力我們共同的修正了包括在年齡適用上過去有各黨團的版本有3歲有6歲有未滿18歲但是我們最後採用刑法當中關於7歲未滿7歲這一個部分行為能力者"},{"start":30401.545,"end":30406.168,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":30417.856,"end":30433.45,"text":"以各該項之規定加重其刑至二分之一希望我們有效的在未來提供適當的法條工具讓未來的法官法院在良心上能夠及時加以嚴懲最後達到嚇阻的效果我們希望虐童案這場慘劇永遠不要再發生謝謝"},{"start":30436.475,"end":30442.719,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言報告委員會我們各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會現有國民黨黨團體針對本次會議7月16日提出延長開會時間處理討論事項請問院會有異議"},{"start":30452.045,"end":30460.755,"text":"沒有異議我們宣告本案照國民黨團提議通過本次會議延長開會時間處理討論事項報告委員會現在進入討論事項第43案電業法第49條條文修正草案本案經本次會議決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":30474.947,"end":30488.067,"text":"報院會因協商已超過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理願以本次我們會議提出討論報院會現在進行廣泛討論"},{"start":30491.052,"end":30501.401,"text":"各黨團並沒有派出代表參加我們現在請宣讀三個黨團共同所提的第49條條文修正動議條文請宣讀"},{"start":30515.194,"end":30535.627,"text":"三黨團提議修正動議條文第49條公用售電業值電價與輸變電業各種收費費率之計算公式由中央主管機關定制公用售電業及輸配電業應依前項計算公式擬定電價及各種收費費率"},{"start":30536.948,"end":30560.965,"text":"報經中央主管機關核定後公告之修正時一同中央主管機關定定第一項電價及各種收費費率之計算公示前應舉辦公開說明會修正時一同中央主管機關為辦理電價、收費費率及其他相關事項之審議及核定應邀請政府機關、學政專家及相關民間團體召開審議會"},{"start":30563.687,"end":30588.819,"text":"請向審議會之學者專家及相關民間團體代表﹐不得少於二分之一審議方式及其他應注意事項﹐應基於公平、公正、公開、透明的原則﹐由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢請問院會本條照三個黨團共同所提修正動議條文通過﹐有無異議﹐沒有異議﹐"},{"start":30591.55,"end":30602.82,"text":"我們第49條照三個黨團共同所提修正動議條文通過報告委員會全案經過二讀現由台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團、民進黨黨團三個黨團共同提議繼續進行三讀請問委員會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":30615.031,"end":30635.445,"text":"第49條公用、收電業、收電價與輸配電業各種收費費率之計算公式由中央主管機關定之公用、收電業及輸配電業應依前項計算公式擬定電價及各種收費費率報經中央主管機關核定後公告之"},{"start":30635.965,"end":30665.183,"text":"修正室一同中央主管機關定定第一項電價及各種收費費率之計算公示前應舉辦公開說明會修正室一同中央主管機關為辦理電價、收費費率及其他相關事項之審議及核定應邀請政府機關、學者專家及相關民間團體召開審議會前項審議會之學者專家及相關民間團體代表不得少於二分之一"},{"start":30666.123,"end":30693.429,"text":"審議方式及其他應注意事項應基於公平、公正、公開、透明的原則由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢報告院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有修正我們決議《電業法》第49條條文修正通過報告院會現在我們繼續處理"},{"start":30695.276,"end":30702.062,"text":"附帶決議臺灣民眾黨黨團所提附帶決議共一項請議事人員宣讀臺灣民眾黨黨團附帶決議要求電駕審議會會議記錄應於會議結束後兩週內公告並比照央行理事會公開發言紀要以維持公開透明之原則宣讀完畢請問院會有無異議"},{"start":30722.386,"end":30747.945,"text":"沒有異議我們照案通過報議會現在處理民進黨黨團所提附帶決議共一項請議事人員宣讀建請電價費率審議會中有關學者、專家及相關民間團體之人數不得少於二分之一因為增加各界不同面向之意見能納入考量確保審議決策過程中之專業及多元性"},{"start":30748.973,"end":30768.961,"text":"委員組成背景需廣納專業多元原則審議會審議電價時﹐除參酌依公式擬定之電價及各種收費費率﹐確保電價審議機制發揮正向作用﹐兼顧制定合理電價及維護社會公益宣讀完畢請問議員會有異議"},{"start":30772.776,"end":30801.468,"text":"沒有異議我們照案通過報言會我們現在進行完成立法後發言首先請洪森翰委員發言林思明委員請準備主席各位我立法院的同仁"},{"start":30804.349,"end":30817.074,"text":"電價審議的機制一直以來都是能源政策甚至是我們經濟產業政策裡面非常重要的環節那也在不管是媒體上面或者是在立法院都有很多的討論"},{"start":30818.234,"end":30845.915,"text":"那確實一度在本會期關於電價的討論裡面有再一檔提出要將電價的審議從經濟部的電價審議委員會審完之後要再拉回到立法院裡面再次審議那這樣的主張當然引起很多包括產業界也包括能源專業的機構、團體很大的疑慮我想大家在媒體上面都有看到"},{"start":30846.84,"end":30861.141,"text":"所以後來我們在黨團的協商裡面在朝野協商裡面其實很謝謝各個黨團的成員我們做了很充分的討論在這充分的討論裡面最後我們一起通過了"},{"start":30862.765,"end":30879.315,"text":"修改《電力法》第49條也就是我們希望未來電價的審議可以更專業可以更多元而不是有更大的政治決定的陰影甚至落入政治攻防的境地裡面"},{"start":30880.543,"end":30908.675,"text":"所以這一次大家一起三個政黨一起做出最後的這樣子的提案讓電價審議委員會從過去是得招級改成應招級那也要求民間的專業的委員要超過二分之一我想這都符合了後來大家希望電價審議應該要往更專業更多元的方向來改革的這樣目標"},{"start":30909.955,"end":30916.027,"text":"那最後這樣子的提案的版本獲得了大院大家"},{"start":30917.639,"end":30942.727,"text":"共同的贊成通過我想這也是一次朝野合作大家一起來修改修正我們的電價審議機制包括政策非常非常重要的一次示範那很謝謝很謝謝朝野各代表我們最後做出了這樣的修正的決議那也希望這一次修正的模式可以供未來"},{"start":30943.647,"end":30957.465,"text":"朝野我們一起往對的方向正確的方向來改革一個好的模式跟範例謝謝大家謝謝謝謝洪森翰委員的發言接下來我們請林思明委員發言張祺凱委員請準備"},{"start":30966.102,"end":30987.358,"text":"院長各位同仁大家午安我想我們電價的審議是在2015年經過我們立法院的決議之後陸續入法電價的調漲就是由審議委員會來做決定依照各種收費的費率的計算公式來做決定"},{"start":30988.464,"end":31007.093,"text":"而對於審議的電價我想在過去我們看到就是說對於電價的調漲我們人民是毫無智慧的餘地也就是說審議委員會說電價要上漲我們就要全盤接受完全人民是非常的無奈"},{"start":31008.41,"end":31030.98,"text":"我想立法院是最高的民意機關我們代表的是所有的多數的一個民意所以立這個電價的調漲是否要經過我們立法院的一個監督讓我們立法院能夠適時的表達我們的民意我想這也是一個非常重要的一個民主的一個原則所以我們本黨"},{"start":31032,"end":31060.552,"text":"原本我們在這一次的電驗法第49條的第4項我們就增訂了前項審議會的決議應於一個月內送交我們立法院審議後實施我想這樣的一個立法就是要彰顯說人民也要參與整個電價審議委員會他審議出來的電價讓我們人民能夠了解讓立法院能夠代表民意來表達我們的看法"},{"start":31061.172,"end":31089.512,"text":"否則就會造成說今年這個4月份即便是我們通過了決議電價要動漲但是仍然我們的行政院還是依照電業法第49條仍然這個漲我們的電我想我們整個電價的調漲會造成我們的人民的生活痛苦指數增加物價的上漲連動的就是帶來我們整個人民生活生活這個"},{"start":31105.663,"end":31130.893,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":31133.806,"end":31136.247,"text":"今天電價審議的改革終於向前跨出了一大步"},{"start":31157.654,"end":31185.222,"text":"我們打破了長久以來官方跟行政體系獨大獨裁的電價審議方式台灣民眾黨在5月份就提出了今天的版本謝謝兩大黨願意認同採用台灣民眾黨的版本我們今天共提今天不是哪一個黨的勝利今天是台灣全民的勝利因為"},{"start":31186.994,"end":31211.507,"text":"我們回應了民意民意從2月開始民意從2月開始電價漲升不斷的時候台灣民眾黨就一直在提醒沒有改革沒有漲價你要漲電價以前的台電為什麼從金雞母變成了敗家子前續3年一直漲價包括今年10月份可能都還要漲價一次"},{"start":31213.72,"end":31241.945,"text":"我們要求政府跟人民對話跟立法院對話可是呢民進黨政府不採不理不回應民意電價委員會開完之後事業要漲了電價到現在也沒有一個明確的說明所以今天是一個改革的開始我們非常謝謝當台灣民眾黨提出了這個改革的方案之後國民黨也從善如流國民黨本來是要求"},{"start":31243.225,"end":31266.881,"text":"電價委員會審議完之後一個月內是要送到立法院的民進黨本來是抵死不從的後來我們終於有共識了我們回應了民意今天台灣民眾黨要強調這是全民的勝利更重要的再過幾天馬上我們就要審查10月份的電價要不要漲了當今天三讀通過之後我們期待新的審議委員會"},{"start":31268.897,"end":31297.109,"text":"這個二分之一的民意民間代表跟這個社團的這個代表跟寫者專家能夠真正的回應謝謝張啟凱委員的發言接下來我們請劉許廷委員發言謝謝主席各位同仁"},{"start":31299.031,"end":31317.11,"text":"國人正在為錯誤的能源政策共同承擔後果電價的調漲不只傷了百姓的荷包帶動的通貨膨脹問題正嚴重衝擊千千萬萬中小企業的營運並且對於庶民經濟造成重大的打擊跟影響"},{"start":31318.491,"end":31334.236,"text":"過去我們給予政府裁量空間起料電價費率審議會竟然淪為政府在為錯誤的能源政策洗地收爛攤子的工具形容橡皮圖章也讓民意無從伸張"},{"start":31335.496,"end":31349.248,"text":"這次《電解法》第49條修法通過後我們明定電駕審議委員會出席者、民間團體及學者專家代表不得少於二分之一保障人民參與電駕審議的機會而且政府應邀請而減少其獨裁專段的機會"},{"start":31355.433,"end":31371.611,"text":"我們相信電業法修正通過之後公開透明的電價審議過程可以讓人民更加有效的來監督政府並且讓政府無法再閃躲民意直接面對人民對於能源政策改革的需求"},{"start":31372.432,"end":31401.128,"text":"我們期待未來電價審議會採廣納社會各界的建言尤其應注意對於中小企業以及庶民經濟之衝擊更重要的我們也在此嚴肅要求我們現在執政的民進黨政府應認真嚴肅地檢討能源政策用務實的角度改革正本清源以迎向全球減碳的趨勢謝謝大家"},{"start":31402.772,"end":31414.26,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員的發言報告委員會我們各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會我們現在進入討論事項第46案本院國民黨團現請院會決議"},{"start":31417.745,"end":31439.905,"text":"立即解除禁止人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客尋小山通赴金馬棚三個離島線旅遊觀光議案報院會因為協商已超過一個月無法達成共識"},{"start":31441.755,"end":31465.091,"text":"一、立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理我們本次會議請提出討論現在我們進行廣泛討論一、黨團共事由各黨團推派之代表發言首先請國民黨團推派陳玉珍委員發言、洪森翰委員請準備"},{"start":31474.212,"end":31488.479,"text":"從這個法案齁在草野協商中我充分的體驗到了民進黨怎麼樣的說一套做一套民進黨說他們重視醫療人員的福利但是不肯把點子入法"},{"start":31489.349,"end":31508.132,"text":"民進黨說他們在乎警察的退休生活但是在這個警察人士條例的時候也不願意讓這個所得替代率提高民進黨說他注重觀光產業但是呢卻遲遲不肯解除禁團令"},{"start":31510.37,"end":31535.758,"text":"在草議協商的時候我聽到柯總召說這個是總統的職權我們不能那個陸委會跟交通部在那邊說他們沒有辦法決定我們不能超越我們不能讓他們超越總統的職權我想請問這個民進黨團中華民國憲法第10條說人民有居住遷徙的自由所謂居住遷徙自由是包括旅行的自由"},{"start":31537.179,"end":31564.461,"text":"我想請問柯總召你們到底有沒有看到我們總統的就職典禮裡面說他就是希望兩岸客人觀光客多多往來多多交流大家沒有看到的是觀光產業非常的凄慘我前天到宜蘭一個飯店去那個老闆經營了55年的飯店他告訴我說這是疫情以來最慘的時刻因為沒有什麼客人"},{"start":31565.677,"end":31580.964,"text":"大家如果到金門去可以看到我們金門各行各業幾乎都沒有生意比疫情期間還慘因為很多現在旅客也出國沒有台灣客也沒有大陸客禁團令不但剝奪了人們的工作權"},{"start":31588.906,"end":31595.988,"text":"違反了憲法而且再再的體現出民進黨團完全不在乎老百姓的死活在你們的心目中只有政治沒有民生經濟所以今天本席在這裡懇請在座的各位為了我國的觀光產業發展為了我們金馬鵬離島居民的生計"},{"start":31620.171,"end":31640.246,"text":"希望這一次的提議可以順利通過在兩岸交流的歷史中小山通一直扮演著很重要的角色一直有著先行先施的角色在這一次的旅展中我們也有看到大陸有來的相當多的這個客人陸委會也核准了"},{"start":31642.079,"end":31665.995,"text":"今年這個月7月20號很快也有150個大陸的人士要到金門來我希望在座的各位都可以秉持你們的良心支持開放解除禁傳令開放小三通大陸旅客來金馬棚謝謝謝謝陳益臻委員的發言接下來請洪森翰委員發言李博義委員請準備"},{"start":31686.758,"end":31706.977,"text":"院長還有立法院的同仁我們今天在這邊討論這個附中禁團令的問題我想我們應該先確認一個前提其實我想不管各黨對於我們的觀光旅遊的經濟我們都是大力的支持也希望未來可以更活絡"},{"start":31708.223,"end":31731.545,"text":"但今天當討論到中國的旅遊的時候我們不得不面對當下的即刻的一些現實其實一直以來現在的執政黨政府面對對於中國旅遊的問題我們的態度一直很簡單就是要對等就是要尊嚴很明顯我們現在看得到"},{"start":31732.853,"end":31756.905,"text":"其實對於兩岸之間的旅遊問題目前的問題是出在中共並不是出在中華民國的政府所以剛剛國民黨的一些委員有很多對兩岸觀光深切的期待我們都覺得很好但應該要跟中國共產黨來訴求應該去跟習近平要求"},{"start":31762.503,"end":31782.239,"text":"不要再用過自己威權的一己之師來打擊打壓兩岸之間的觀光問題我也要提出現在其實對於中國旅遊的風險的問題安全的問題也是國際上面現在非常非常關注的議題我要舉例"},{"start":31783.991,"end":31813.068,"text":"美國在2023年已經調整了對中國旅遊的事情現在要求大家非必要不要前往愛爾蘭政府其實在今年的5月16號也提醒中國當局可能會對個人實施出境的禁令以阻止愛爾蘭的國民離開該國加拿大政府一樣也是提醒他的國人由於在中國有任意執行當地法律的風險請在中國保持高度警戒"},{"start":31813.968,"end":31842.923,"text":"澳洲政府也是一樣現在其實也在警告自己的國民從7月1號開始提醒中國當局可能會用危害國家安全而拘留外國人我們要說這麼多的國際社會尤其是民主國家在在都在提醒自己的國人附中旅遊有非常嚴肅的安全風險上的問題的時候很遺憾我們現在看不到包括國民黨"},{"start":31844.526,"end":31870.816,"text":"對於這些國人附中的安全問題跟風險有一絲嚴肅的討論這不是只是民進黨的問題而已我剛才講的這些國家並不是都只是民進黨在執政啊所以我要問我們希望大力的發展觀光發展旅遊但面對安全的風險我們也希望在野黨可以更加的嚴肅來"},{"start":31883.907,"end":31907.945,"text":"謝謝洪森翰委員的發言接下來請登記第三位李博義委員發言謝謝各位從疫情後到現在疫情後中國是在2019年停止"},{"start":31908.925,"end":31933.678,"text":"主團來台灣台灣是在2020年1月宣布停止到中國2023年9月台灣已經恢復第三地而且宣布準備迎接團客中國在2023年的5月開放139個國家的地區主團出遊裡面沒有包含台灣"},{"start":31935.049,"end":31952.768,"text":"在2024年4月28日中國國民黨組團到大陸訪問之後回來中國立刻宣布在附帶條件下要開放注意聽喔福建居民來台旅遊組團來台旅遊請問"},{"start":31957.533,"end":31973.391,"text":"這個是把台灣當作台灣省用福建來跟台灣省對談做對等的條件嗎請問我們會接受這個條件嗎再者從2024年的3月到5月"},{"start":31974.485,"end":31998.945,"text":"我們開放的組團旅遊副路其實都有出去從3月到6月台灣一共組了11萬人士出去請問從4月28日之後中國國民黨反台之後國台辦宣布福建地區人民旅客可以組團來台灣到現在"},{"start":32001.267,"end":32019.689,"text":"有沒有一團有沒有一個人來到台灣旅遊沒有這一個提案要我們先片面開放組團赴中國其實也是要先讓請問這有符合對等有符合利益嗎"},{"start":32021.971,"end":32048.627,"text":"台灣對於自由行的旅客沒有限制反而是中國對於自由行的旅客有限制片面的開放先開放台灣旅客組團到中國而台灣所有的石、樹、車的業者完全沒有任何一個中國的團客來到台灣請問這也是對等嗎?"},{"start":32051.618,"end":32064.442,"text":"我們當然照顧離島、京、馬、澎、居民所有的生計但是對於整體台灣旅遊產業我們也必須要照顧所以"},{"start":32064.96,"end":32080.916,"text":"在這邊呼籲也希望中國國民黨這一個提案不是為了四月組團赴大陸之後回來的承諾希望中國國民黨也會為台灣所有的旅行業者來設想謝謝"},{"start":32084.833,"end":32093.531,"text":"謝謝李博議委的發言報言會現在由國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團共同提出修正動議請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":32095.72,"end":32115.126,"text":"中國國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團共同提案修正動議本院國民黨黨團為積極爭取離島經濟發展京馬鵬等三離島縣均以觀光財為主要經濟收入來源小三通集圍渠等三離島縣之主要經濟名門"},{"start":32116.726,"end":32140.137,"text":"盡請院會作成決議在維護我方安全、增進兩岸和平穩定發展解除人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客尋小森通赴金馬棚等三里島縣旅遊觀光適合遊蕩請供決案宣讀完畢報告委員會請問對國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨團所提共同修正動議有無異議"},{"start":32145.506,"end":32163.544,"text":"沒有異議有異議那有異議我們就要表決民進黨團提出有異議那我們進行表決現在表決國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團共同提出修正動議我們現在記名表決贊成國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":32268.804,"end":32275.508,"text":"報應會報告表決結果出席107位贊成59位反對48位贊成者多數報應會現有民進黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":32357.247,"end":32357.551,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":32358.803,"end":32385.869,"text":"委員會現在宣布重複表決結果出席108人贊成60人反對48人贊成者多數我們現在做以下宣告在維護我方安全、增進兩岸和平穩定發展解除人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客尋小山通赴金門、馬祖、澎湖等三離島線旅遊觀光"},{"start":32388.75,"end":32412.302,"text":"報告委員會現在有兩個聲明郭國文委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄蔡易瑜委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄報告委員會現在我們進行完成程序後發言首先請登記第一位吳思瑤委員發言王紅薇委員請準備"},{"start":32420.305,"end":32429.79,"text":"主席各位同仁非常遺憾剛剛通過了這樣一個提案我想不是台灣不開放是中國不放行數字會說話2023年台灣附中有176萬人中國來台只有22.6萬人"},{"start":32437.814,"end":32453.751,"text":"今年上半年臺灣附中超過100萬人中國來臺只有15萬人非常清楚臺灣是開放的一方未能恢復兩岸觀光旅遊的障礙是中國"},{"start":32455.092,"end":32476.277,"text":"國民黨應當向中國要求去除障礙而不是對自己的政府施壓這是搞錯了方向而現在是對的時機嗎我們看看7月1號中國開始了新的制度警察可以任意翻查旅客的手機筆電查看上網跟對話的記錄甚至6月中國的懲讀22項意見書"},{"start":32482.659,"end":32504.987,"text":"剛剛陳玉珍委員說怎麼可以不顧國人的死活呢對你通過了這個提案無視於附中旅遊的風險才是無視於人民的死活所以當我們看到世界各國不只台灣都對附中提出示警難道台灣這個時候要鼓勵國人附中嗎"},{"start":32506.207,"end":32523.928,"text":"更甚至不只對於國人釋放了錯誤的訊息﹐恐怕也對世界傳達了錯誤的訊號﹐讓民主同盟的國家誤以為﹐台灣在此時此刻兩岸險峻的情勢當下﹐是在迎合中國﹐"},{"start":32525.029,"end":32544.936,"text":"如果聚焦於金馬鵬山離島的觀光旅遊陳玉珍委員您應當去向習近平反映現在的福州市的採線團已經採完了請中國趕快開放請中國也趕快開放到金門旅遊因為障礙都在路方謝謝吳思堯委員發言接下來請王宏威委員發言羅志強委員請準備"},{"start":32557.961,"end":32560.964,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":32564.158,"end":32589.279,"text":"好 謝謝主席及各位同仁剛才我們所表決的提案通過我們可以達成兩大目標第一個就是解決現在台灣觀光業的困境我們都知道在去年我們在疫後全面恢復觀光之後我們來台觀光的人次雖然達到將近650萬人"},{"start":32592.321,"end":32617.682,"text":"但是仍然百比一前只有達到六成而已但是我們其他的鄰近國家包含韓國已經達到九成日本也都恢復疫情的一個水準我相信今天在座不管你是哪一個政黨一定都有接受觀光旅遊產業的陳情因為他們真的太慘了"},{"start":32618.783,"end":32634.844,"text":"所以今天我們要如何的協助觀光產業的我們這些從業人員我們一定要拿出辦法更何況今年我們原定是1200萬人次可是呢我們的交通部已經下下調降"},{"start":32636.366,"end":32650.502,"text":"即便調降到1000萬人次可是到現在6月底為止整個赴台觀光的人次只有380萬其實非常非常的悲觀我們一定要做一些事情"},{"start":32651.543,"end":32665.972,"text":"剛才我們也注意到我們的很多的民進黨的委員都說這個有國家安全的問題有人民安全的問題讓我提醒大家剛剛結束的臺北國際夏季旅展"},{"start":32666.932,"end":32688.441,"text":"包含大陸官員以及旅遊的相關人士有高達155人這也是陸委會還有交通部所放行的我想請問一下難道我們的政府也在不顧人民的安全嗎更不要說羅文嘉海基會的秘書長"},{"start":32709.81,"end":32736.899,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員的發言接下來請羅志強委員發言兩岸在推動直航的時候賴清德總統曾經說這會木馬屠城兩岸直航了"},{"start":32737.984,"end":32766.995,"text":"也沒有木馬塗層當馬總統在推動兩岸的經貿往來的時候民進黨說推動經貿的關係加強啊雜貨賺沒工 雜貨賺沒銀 硬要去歐良工結果呢 我們簽訂了ECFA民進黨到現在愛不釋手啊糖衣毒藥吃得愛不釋手賴清德、蔡英文八年愛不釋手"},{"start":32768.171,"end":32792.705,"text":"今天我們來談到我們的所謂的民進黨的荒謬可笑的陸克的進團令我曾經徒步環島我走在花東臺東的海岸有一次一個海產店的老闆他知道我要經過這個花東的海岸他出來說要請我吃個便當他指著他的海產店空蕩蕩的說他說請你幫我謝謝馬總統"},{"start":32795.421,"end":32812.055,"text":"在馬總統執政的時候我的海產店不但是滿的旁邊兩家還有兩家海產店三家海產店面對著台東無敵的海景旅客絡繹不絕到現在左邊的倒了右邊的倒了我這一家改賣便當了"},{"start":32813.473,"end":32831.548,"text":"民進黨在過去今天他說我們的觀光人數他從1200萬目標下修了1000萬大家不要忘了台灣的觀光人數破1000萬是在馬英九總統執政的時代結果你民進黨越走越回去"},{"start":32832.861,"end":32849.871,"text":"因為你今天沒有辦法開創我們的觀光人口觀光的產業你結果去懲罰我們的旅遊業者懲罰台灣人民違反憲法的遷徙自由跟大家講說不准組團去大陸這叫做什麼樣的民進黨荒謬謝謝羅志強委員的發言"},{"start":32858.4,"end":32885.003,"text":"現在陳旭委員會各黨報告院會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會我們現在進入討論事項第47案本院國民黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前邀請賴清德總統至立法院就職權相關之國家大政方針進行國情報告一案"},{"start":32886.82,"end":32914.62,"text":"報告委員會因協商已過一個月：無法達成共識：立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定：由院會定期處理：願與本次會議提出討論：我們現在進行廣泛討論沒有政黨團推敗代表發言報告委員會現有國民黨黨團提出修正動議：請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":32916.089,"end":32933.535,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於美國法國總統至國會進行國情諮問制度為民主國家之典範我國憲法再修台灣籍立法院職權限時法定有總統府立法院國情報告相關規定為自我國修憲以來未曾落實"},{"start":32934.835,"end":32957.41,"text":"總統依憲法為國家元首、三軍統帥、任命行政院院長等重大之人事選組成內閣團隊實質主導國防外交事務及國家大政方針、寄予責任政治原理總統至立法院進行國情報告必時立法院及全國人民知悉總統治國理念及施政方向"},{"start":32958.23,"end":32973.173,"text":"對於捍衛民主憲政以及公眾溝通堅具正面意義面對國內能源政策困境淨零排放挑戰產業轉型、兩岸關係局發展、電價導致物價急漲波及民生經濟、財政收支劃分制調整、健保財務穩定、保障民眾就醫等均攸關國際民生之國家安全事項與總統職權相關如今總統及國會新民意產生"},{"start":32986.776,"end":33014.955,"text":"政治生態變化應新民意托付此刻立法院急需落實相關法治﹐建立優良之憲政管理﹐原件請院會作成權益﹐為確保總統對全民負責之憲政機制﹐本院依立法院《集權行使法》第15條政規定﹐邀請耐心的總統至立法院﹐就集權相關之國家大政方針進行國際報告﹐是否有道公決案﹐宣讀完畢"},{"start":33017.373,"end":33032.231,"text":"請問院會照國民黨團修正動議通過有無異議有異議我們就進行表決我們贊成國民黨所提修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":33111.462,"end":33116.148,"text":"官員會現在報告表決結果出席109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數官員會現由民進黨黨團體重複表決我們進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":33200.951,"end":33204.483,"text":"報告院會議宣布重複表決結果出席109位、贊成59位、反對50位"},{"start":33208.168,"end":33234.891,"text":"我們贊成者多數我們照國民黨團修正動議通過報院會現在做以下決議為確保總統對全民負責之憲政機制本院依立法院職權新制法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統之立法院就職權相關之國家大政方針進行國情報告報院會現在我們進行完成程序之發言首先請謝龍介委員發言"},{"start":33262.547,"end":33278.557,"text":"老總統請等一下最近在民間很多鄉親說你看來的腳踏實地還會喘口都白痴的我想要替你解釋幾句我也很抱歉為什麼"},{"start":33284.926,"end":33293.892,"text":"在總統大選辯論時你說依照憲法你要來立法院做國情報告並請來答詢結果選情三明海誓選後再跟你說三明海誓立法院現在一手我通過你說不讓我吃雞骨我沒有來反省我請問你"},{"start":33311.124,"end":33324.106,"text":"如果你懷疑為了中華民國的總統所保留下來這個VIP的寶座若你若是來到這裡你捨得我嗎?抱歉我還要先發一件事選舉去拜媽祖拜觀光、拜翁牙、拜德宮去討選票選了媽祖、觀光、翁牙、拜德宮都選通鑒了"},{"start":33340.356,"end":33349.845,"text":"尤其是平成王整天在那裡想我今天要放這隻嬌娃出去問他要放那隻嬌娃出去你都不怕把那隻嬌娃抓死"},{"start":33351.127,"end":33374.132,"text":"人家說他中他拿的3K帥他煩他惑小人心我們台灣人最忌諱就是說一套做一套你看你包括你的同志來到這裡說北朝的說到自己叫北朝的感動到老百姓你自己想想看我們的國家還能不能繼續下去你要怎麼團結2350萬人呢請聽聽民政界"},{"start":33381.093,"end":33401.019,"text":"何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案："},{"start":33402.793,"end":33413.005,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前依立法院職權刑事法第15條之2規定"},{"start":33415,"end":33437.811,"text":"邀請賴清德總統至立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員所提問題議案報院會因協商已過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權新設法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理願以本次會議提出討論"},{"start":33439.412,"end":33457.692,"text":"報告委員會現在我們進行廣泛討論一黨團共事由各黨團推派之代表發言首先請林國成委員發言鍾嘉斌委員請準備林國成委員請發言"},{"start":33480.686,"end":33499.433,"text":"其實這些國情報告我說實在的依照憲法徵修條文這很明確依照我們立法委員之前新十法十五條之二也是很明確所以我賴總統在選舉的時候我要證明蓉蓋欉剛才講的"},{"start":33504.915,"end":33527.588,"text":"習介雄他也公開的宣示總統有義務也有權利到立法院接受國情報告我相信我信賴總統均無細言特別提這個案其實我要呼籲"},{"start":33529.534,"end":33550.224,"text":"我們賴總統這可以展現國家元首的高度也可以創造歷史以來第一位來立法院報告的總統可以提高高度可以創造歷史這有什麼不好"},{"start":33551.164,"end":33571.593,"text":"最後我真的要呼籲請賴總統放心立法院各黨的委員水準層次很高一定要會以理相待、理性請教、習耳恭聽、憲政的慣例"},{"start":33572.864,"end":33598.112,"text":"良好的典範讓台灣的民主再進步我不曉得我們賴總統你是在怕什麼啦你是在擔心什麼啦其實大家可以看得出來今天我們中華民國的立法院不管你們在擔心說我們國會無法啊怕"},{"start":33598.972,"end":33600.694,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":33618.234,"end":33628.139,"text":"改變歷史才是真正民主國家的重要所以我們還是要呼籲賴總統請你來我們會在大門口迎接你我們絕對會以禮相待謝謝感謝大家"},{"start":33650.789,"end":33666.516,"text":"主席在場的委員先進根據憲法正條文第4條第3項立法委員的全責寫得很清楚立法院於每年集會時得聽取總統國情報告立法院當然可以每年集會"},{"start":33668.35,"end":33690.384,"text":"行政院依憲法第五四條規定向立法院負責那究竟總統來立法院做什麼呢其實本席之前在關於我們立法院職權行使法相關的修法不斷地提出當年在2005年通過將國民大會完全廢止後原來國民大會對總統行使的職權就由立法院來行使"},{"start":33691.246,"end":33698.692,"text":"也才有在2008年我們制定了立法院職權行使法將總統來聽取總統國簽報告予以具體化"},{"start":33702.95,"end":33727.571,"text":"但是很可惜的賴總統雖然在選前有承諾根據原有的立法院職權刑事法第15條之一到之四來接受立法院的邀請來做國情報告然而在本次的擴權案當中已經克正在立法憲法法庭審理當中這樣的一個15條之一到15條之四已經嚴重的抵觸憲法的原來規定"},{"start":33729.008,"end":33746.385,"text":"因為憲法原來的規定給予國民大會的是得聽取總統國情報告並檢討國事提供建言提供建言是向總統提出但是現在的政修條文並沒有立法院可以向總統提供建言的相關規定"},{"start":33747.586,"end":33769.002,"text":"因此2008年立法院職員行使法將聽取總統國情報告之後透過15條之四擅自增加了立法委員可以向總統提出他們的看法之後他其實至少他保留了由總統一期意願來決定是否做補充說明"},{"start":33769.775,"end":33794.306,"text":"然而這次的我們的立法院職員行事法的擴選法案當中將由總統依其意願來予以做補充說明把它改成了因而這裡面我們看到民眾黨說明雖然它根據的是15條之二來邀請總統然而它在最後面的第二行並依法回應立法委員之提問依什麼法"},{"start":33795.253,"end":33819.947,"text":"一、擴增、擴全扣折立法委員職權新施法嗎?憲法中二條文第四條第三項有說總統要來回應立法委員的提問嗎?沒有所以這明顯的就是一個不理解台灣我們中華民國憲法在中二條文嚴格的過程中由國民大會轉來讓渡給立法委員的職權當中修憲者已經有所修改了"},{"start":33820.607,"end":33834.7,"text":"國民大會可以監討國事提供建言立法院只能聽取總統國情報告所以呼籲大家在憲法法庭上位作出暫時處分前我們這樣的提議還是回歸到舊法來行使以上說明"},{"start":33854.705,"end":33869.653,"text":"關於國情報告其實有兩個層次的點第一個就是本來徵修條文的規定立法院是得聽取得聽取的意思就是說如果今天來做國情報告的話立法院可以聽取這樣的一個國情報告"},{"start":33872.695,"end":33890.88,"text":"這跟你可以積極的叫他過來完全是兩件事情大家可以去想像假設我今天弄了一個告解式大家都可以來去吐露心聲我可以聽取跟我今天可以主動想叫你來告解就來告解這應該是完全不同的兩件事情吧"},{"start":33891.48,"end":33910.988,"text":"所以當我們去創設了這一種新的義務的時候我們就必須要考量它到底跟憲法增修條文到底有沒有合制其實連現行的立法院職權刑事法都有可能跟憲法有衝突的地方就是在還沒有修國會擴權法案之前更不要講說現在的15之1跟15之2這是第一個層次"},{"start":33914.244,"end":33926.183,"text":"第二個層次呢就像各位不斷的在挑戰到底反質詢的定義是什麼現在我發現其實很有可能這個版本連質詢的定義都搞不清楚"},{"start":33926.854,"end":33949.143,"text":"因為目前的規定是不但可以叫總統過來做這個國情報告之外更重要的是可以請他做這個依序來回答這個其實已經是一個類似質詢的一個制度即使在憲法法庭上面有提到說這個及時到底有多及時這個是有爭議的"},{"start":33950.223,"end":33965.316,"text":"但按照目前來講訴訟的相關的一些規定比如說性暴力等等之類的即時是可以非常即時的所以當你創設了一個類似質詢的規定的時候你又再多創設了一個回答的義務"},{"start":33966.377,"end":33989.917,"text":"所以剛剛嘉賓委員有提到創設這個法所不容許的義務其實有兩個層次第一個層次就是請他過來的這一個義務以及必須要依序回答的義務這個都是創設了法所不容許尤其是憲法所不容許的義務那從97修憲之後我們就已經進入了雙原制總統有自己的民意基礎"},{"start":33990.758,"end":34019.36,"text":"而在這個總統的民意基礎之下他任命行政院長之後真正對立法院負責的是行政院長而不是總統台灣有他特殊的這種混合制的制度而這種雙元首長制本來就是在當初修憲之後呢故意的讓總統只有讓他的國情報告立法院有得聽取的義務台灣面臨這些國安的威脅他本來就會把"},{"start":34020.02,"end":34020.781,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":34037.824,"end":34048.568,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言報告委員會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會現有台灣民眾黨黨團提出修正動議及再修正動議請議事人員一併宣讀"},{"start":34051.072,"end":34076.165,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議：針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議：事由：討論事項第48案：擬具修正動議如下：漸行任會作成決議本院依立法院政權行事法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統致立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員提出這問題"},{"start":34079.043,"end":34096.364,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議本院臺灣民眾黨黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議：事由：日前討論事項第48案擬具再修正動議如下：進行委員會作審決議本院一立法院政權實施法第15條確認規定"},{"start":34098.266,"end":34122.513,"text":"邀請賴清德總統至立法院就《國家大政方針》進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員之提問其發言時間、人數、順序、政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定宣讀完畢本院會現在我們要進行處理依序進行處理其中有任何一案通過我們不再處理其他案請問院會"},{"start":34124.693,"end":34143.621,"text":"對照台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議的通過有無異議有異我們進行表決我們時間一分鐘贊成台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議請按贊成反對請反對時間一分鐘開始"},{"start":34220.663,"end":34228.106,"text":"報告委員會宣布表決結果出席109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數報告委員會現由民進黨黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":34314.68,"end":34327.877,"text":"報告重複表決結果出席109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數照台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議通過報告我們做以下決議"},{"start":34330.646,"end":34349.046,"text":"本院依立法院職權新司法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統至立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員之提問其發言時間、人數、順序、政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定報議會現在我們進入討論事項第50案"},{"start":34353.03,"end":34382.47,"text":"學生輔導法部分條文修正草案本案經本次會議結論協商後提出本次會議處理因上代協商做以下決議協商後再行處理報言會現在我們進入討論事項第51案警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案本案因上代協商決議協商後再行處理報言會現在我們休息進行誘餐"},{"start":34383.552,"end":34385.078,"text":"用餐晚上7點20分繼續開會 現在休息"},{"start":39389.437,"end":39399.567,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會進行討論事項第18案洗錢防治法修正草案報告委員會現在我們處理保留第19條請宣讀條文"},{"start":39403.055,"end":39421.427,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第19條有第二條各款所列行為者處1年以上7年下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金請洗錢之財務或財產上利益為達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年下有期徒刑"},{"start":39422.607,"end":39440.021,"text":"併科新台幣5000萬元以下罰金﹐發起、主持、操縱或指揮犯罪組織﹐而有第二條各款所列洗錢行為﹐請洗錢之財務或財產上利益﹐達新台幣1億元者﹐處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑﹐併科新台幣1億5000萬元以下罰金"},{"start":39442.923,"end":39465.586,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第19條有第二條各款所列洗錢行為者處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金其洗錢之財務或財產上利益未達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣5千萬元以下罰金且向之未遂犯罰之"},{"start":39466.926,"end":39490.1,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團凶震動議第19條有第二條各款所列洗錢行為者處3年以上10年下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金其洗錢之財務或財產上利益未達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣5000萬元以下罰金第一項之未遂犯罰之"},{"start":39492.072,"end":39512.605,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第19條有第二條各款所列洗錢行為者處3年以上10年下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金其洗錢之財務或財產上的利益為達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年下有期徒刑並科新台幣5000萬元以下罰金前項之為稅販罰資宣讀完畢"},{"start":39517.458,"end":39541.437,"text":"報告委員會依協商結論保留條文處理前各黨團推派一位依台灣民眾黨團、民進黨團、國民黨團順序輪流發言每人發言時間3分鐘發言完畢後我們即進行保留條文處理現在進行各黨團推派代表的發言首先請黃國昌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":39558.905,"end":39577.372,"text":"院長、本院委員這一次洗錢防治法的修正我們希望一方面有事前的管制但重要的事情是對於重大洗錢犯的行為絕對有必要加重處罰現行洗錢防治法不區分"},{"start":39578.012,"end":39579.233,"text":"請審議員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":39596.921,"end":39612.081,"text":"這樣的狀態在年輕人涉及到金額比較低的洗錢犯罪的時候我們認為的確有給予自新的必要不宜重判但是當我們今天所考慮到的"},{"start":39612.641,"end":39636.61,"text":"是洗錢所涉及的財產或者是財產上的利益高達一億元以上的話如果我們對於這種犯罪的處罰只是維持現在的七年以下有期徒刑再加一個樓地板一年以上有期徒刑的話根本沒有辦法給這種重大洗錢犯適度的處罰"},{"start":39637.89,"end":39656.678,"text":"詐欺洗錢可以說是一體的兩面洗錢犯的存在有他獨自所要保護的利益因此台灣民眾黨黨團在這一次我們針對洗錢防治法第19條提出修正動議認為洗錢如果"},{"start":39660.52,"end":39679.341,"text":"財務或財產上利益高達1億元以上的話必須要處3年以上10年以下的有期徒刑這樣才可以有效遏止重大的洗錢罪犯特別是針對有組織性的長期的系統性的洗錢"},{"start":39680.543,"end":39699.474,"text":"如果說今天我們針對這種重大洗錢犯只是透過組織犯罪防制條例首腦的條文來駕以處罰的話組織犯罪防制條例對於犯罪組織的首腦本來就已經處了3年以上10年以下有期徒刑的法定刑"},{"start":39700.214,"end":39715.931,"text":"如果再加上洗錢1億以上還是科與相當的刑度的話我們認為這樣子立法上面的規範根本沒有辦法適切反映出他所應該要承擔的罪責因此"},{"start":39716.974,"end":39737.57,"text":"在打仗非常重要的現在切斷不罰洗錢的金流特別是對於這種洗錢大戶加重處罰我們認為是現在社會對我們的期待謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員的發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言林思明委員請準備"},{"start":39751.465,"end":39777.91,"text":"主席在場的委員先進國人所痛恨的詐欺行為我們這次打詐司法當中非常重要的就是洗錢防治法因為可以說大部分的詐欺所得必須透過洗錢的方式才能轉為犯罪集團所使用然而洗錢的過程它牽涉到許多的階段將詐欺所得或是犯罪所得透過洗錢的方式可能包括有類似車手這樣的職場小白他們所從與協助的"},{"start":39779.352,"end":39801.528,"text":"又類似像一些灰色地帶從事地下匯兌或是典當業或是資源回收業大量現金回流的他們兼做這樣的洗錢工作這是另外一種那最為可惡的就是犯罪集團以專門設置的水房來從事洗錢的業務因此根據這三種不同的樣態最早在洗錢防治法第14條它是處以7年以下或罰併科500萬的罰金"},{"start":39804.73,"end":39829.246,"text":"但是在實務上呢往往因為這樣的刑度在法官量刑的時候對於出犯者都是以6個月以下得一顆罰金造成民眾對於說參與洗錢來協助詐欺這樣的罪犯不能得到應有的懲罰因此這次呢部分黨派我們在這次的洗錢防治法改列為19條之後呢就開始產生了需要有兩種不同的刑度首先對於較嚴重者"},{"start":39830.307,"end":39841.847,"text":"以不以他的前置犯罪為目的我們就以單純的洗錢就主張應該定為一年以上七年以下並以一億元的這個財產所得的洗錢的財產"},{"start":39843.203,"end":39863.348,"text":"立意來作為區隔一元以上的就是一年以上七年以下一元以下的就是六個月以上五年以下那它當中分別可以達一億的罰金但是縱使如此還是讓大家覺得一年以上七年以下仍然會為這些重大的主嫌讓他逃脫為什麼"},{"start":39864.548,"end":39881.474,"text":"一年一年以上七年以下的這樣的一個刑度很容易在初犯或良刑的時候從一年起跳我們知道兩年以下得以緩刑也因此很多以洗錢為業的詐欺祖先在這樣的刑度之下仍然可以倒脫法律的制裁"},{"start":39882.034,"end":39896.021,"text":"因此在民黨團參酌了各黨團的意見之後我們主張仍然以現在的審查會意見我們維持一億以上跟以下分別定有一年以上七年以下的刑度對於嚴重者處以較高的刑度處罰"},{"start":39897.182,"end":39920.8,"text":"在1億以下的我們處以6個月以上、5年以下但是對於符合《組織犯罪條例》所說的這個以發起、主持、操作或指揮者這尤其惡性重大我們予以定到3年以上、5年以下並得課以1億5000萬的罰金相信這樣三個刑度的量刑能夠分別就參與洗錢的罪犯所給予他們應有的懲罰"},{"start":39921.761,"end":39941.646,"text":"當然目前我們看到另外兩個黨團的版本分別是三年以上十年以下跟這個所謂的以來抱歉我想我們就請大家支持民進黨的版本謝謝鍾嘉斌委員接下來請林思明委員請發言"},{"start":39949.271,"end":39972.247,"text":"謝謝院長、各位委員社會上的詐騙行為推陳出新、陳出不窮而詐騙行為中的洗錢環節是透過犯罪或其他非法的手段所獲得的金錢包含虛擬貨幣、違幣等等經過金融合法作業的流程等方法來操作掩飾、隱匿、洗淨、看似合法的資金"},{"start":39973.027,"end":39990.162,"text":"其實不只詐騙、洗錢也與經濟犯罪、毒品或軍火交易、恐怖活動以及組織犯罪、人口販運、賭博、偷渡等重大犯罪都有所關聯也常透過跨國的方式來進行"},{"start":39991.403,"end":40010.081,"text":"所以我們為了要有效的遏阻各種類型的洗錢行為政府應該以最嚴謹的態度來面對也應以最嚴格的刑罰來做出規定所以國民黨團提出只要涉及洗錢行為者處3年以上10年"},{"start":40010.862,"end":40025.525,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員"},{"start":40036.928,"end":40052.893,"text":"以不法途徑所獲得的不法的財產或財產利益透過洗錢來加以洗白他的犯罪所得予以重罰所以 無論洗錢的原因是什麼犯罪者均應對洗錢的結果"},{"start":40054.113,"end":40080.653,"text":"負起責任所以我希望各位委員支持凡是有洗錢的行為而且他的財務或財產上的利益高達一億元以上者我們要予以重懲處三年以上、十年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣一億元的罰金如果是對於剛才講的車手或者小白他的洗錢的金額沒有高達一億元以下者"},{"start":40082.094,"end":40110.149,"text":"那我們就處以6個月以上5年以下的有期徒刑這也可以對於我們的一些這個車手這些不慎觸法的年輕人給他一個自新的一個機會所以希望各位委員我們對於洗錢的防制既然大家這次要阻絕我們的這個詐欺犯那對於這次嚴刑峻罰來遏止我們的詐欺台灣的詐欺王國這樣的惡名能夠予以洗刷"},{"start":40110.609,"end":40132.984,"text":"希望各位委員支持我們這一次的一個修正的一個動議好謝謝謝謝林思明委員的發言報告院會現在我們依序進行表決如果其中有任何一樣通過即不再處理其他案報告院會現在我們按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡現在開始"},{"start":40566.232,"end":40569.346,"text":"報告委員會請問每位委員是否拿到表決卡"},{"start":40570.575,"end":40593.409,"text":"都拿到好我們現在依序進行表決其中任何一案通過我們就不再處理其他案報告委員會現有國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團再修正動議條文內容完全相同我們一併處理報告委員會現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名投票記名表決時間一分鐘贊成國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘開始"},{"start":40673.527,"end":40679.93,"text":"報告委員會報告表決結果出席105位贊成56位反對49位贊成者多數報告委員會現有民進黨黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":40762.956,"end":40765.859,"text":"報告重複表決結果出席107位、贊成58位、反對49位"},{"start":40775.857,"end":40795.81,"text":"報告委員會贊成者多數我們做以下宣告第19條照國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議條文通過報告委員會黃健豪委員、陳清薇委員聲明剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報告委員會全案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議"},{"start":40805.509,"end":40833.498,"text":"沒有議我們請宣讀經過二讀制條文第一條為防制洗錢打擊犯罪健全防制洗錢體系穩定金融秩序促進金流之透明強化國際合作特制定本法第二條本法所稱洗錢其下列行為一、隱匿特定犯罪所得或掩飾其來源二、妨礙或危害國家對於特定犯罪所得之調查"},{"start":40834.919,"end":40845.286,"text":"發現保全陌生或追偵3、收受持有或使用他人之特定犯罪所得4、使用自己之特定犯罪所得與他人進行交易"},{"start":40849.183,"end":40860.409,"text":"3.本法所稱特定犯罪只下列各款之罪1.最新本行為6月以上有期徒刑之罪2.刑法第121條、第123條、第201條之一第二項、第231條、第233條第一項、第235條、第一項、第二項"},{"start":40868.232,"end":40874.676,"text":"第266條第一項第二項第268條第319條之一第二項第三項即該二項之未遂分第319條之三第四項而分第一項即其未遂分第319條之四第三項第339條"},{"start":40899.433,"end":40911.525,"text":"懲治走私條例第2條、第1項、第2項、第3條之罪破審法第154條、第155條之罪商標法第95條、第96條之罪商業會計法第71條、第72條之罪稅捐基金法第41條、第1項、第42條及第43條、第1項、第2項之罪"},{"start":40923.877,"end":40926.18,"text":"政府裁判法第87條、第3項、第5項、第6項、第89條、第91條、第1項、第3項之罪電子支付機構管理條例第46條、第2項、第3項、第47條之罪"},{"start":40939.14,"end":40942.484,"text":"10.《證券交易法》第172條之罪11."},{"start":40942.484,"end":40945.908,"text":"《期戶交易法》第113條之罪12."},{"start":40945.908,"end":40951.154,"text":"《資本防治法》第8條第9條第1項第2項第4項之罪13."},{"start":40951.154,"end":40954.118,"text":"《本法》第21條之罪14."},{"start":40954.118,"end":40957.742,"text":"《組織犯罪防制條例》第3條第2項第4項第5項之罪"},{"start":40959.504,"end":40964.008,"text":"15.《營業秘密法》第13條之一 第1項 第2項之罪16."},{"start":40964.008,"end":40966.471,"text":"《人口分域防制法》第30條 第1項 第3項 第31條 第2項 第5項 第33條之罪17."},{"start":40966.471,"end":40967.732,"text":"《熱衝國際移民法》第73條 第74條之罪"},{"start":40976.96,"end":40988.828,"text":"18.食品安全衛生管理法 第49條 第1項 第2項 前段 第5項之罪19.住宿權法 第91條 第1項 第91條之一 第1項 第2項 第92條之罪20.總統 副總統選舉罷免法 第88條之一 第1項 第2項 第4項之罪21.公職人員選舉罷免法 第103條之一 第1項 第2項 第4項之罪"},{"start":41004.502,"end":41020.765,"text":"第4條本法所徵特定犯罪所得只犯第3條所列之特定犯罪而取得或變得之財務或財政勝利及其資息前項特定犯罪所得之認定不以其所犯特定犯罪經有罪判決為必要"},{"start":41022.475,"end":41035.247,"text":"第5條本法所稱金融機構包括下列機構一、銀行二、信託投資公司三、信用合作社四、農會信用部五、漁會信用部六、全國農業金庫七、辦理儲金會對檢疫燃燒保險業務者郵政機構"},{"start":41039.57,"end":41054.939,"text":"8.票券金融公司9.信用卡公司10.保險公司11.證券商12.證券投資信託事業13.證券金融事業14.證券投資顧問事業15.證券集中保管事業16.期貨商"},{"start":41056.86,"end":41076.291,"text":"17信託業18其他經目的事業主管機關指定之金融機構﹐辦理融資性租賃﹐提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員﹐適用本法關於金融機構之規定本法所稱指定之非金融事業或人員﹐只從事下列交易之事業或人員"},{"start":41078.031,"end":41100.522,"text":"一、銀樓業二、地政事及不動產經紀業從事與不動產買賣交易有關之行為三、律師、公證人、會計師為客戶準備或進行下列交易時一、買賣不動產二、管理客戶金錢、證券或其他資產三、管理銀行儲蓄或證券賬戶四、有關提供公司設立營運或管理者資金籌劃"},{"start":41102.082,"end":41124.071,"text":"法人或法律協議之設立、營運或管理以及買賣事業體信託及公司服務提供業為客戶準備或進行下列教育時關於法人之籌備或設立事項擔任或安排他人擔任公司董事或秘書合夥之合夥人或在其他法人組織之類似職位"},{"start":41127.576,"end":41146.098,"text":"提供公司合夥信託其他管人或協議註冊之辦公室營業地址、居住所、通訊或管理地址擔任或安排他人擔任信託或其他類似契約信職之受託人或其他相同角色擔任或安排他人擔任實職"},{"start":41148.02,"end":41165.511,"text":"持股股東5提供第三方支付服務之事業或人員6其他業務特性或交易型態亦為洗錢犯罪利用之事業或從業人員第二項辦理融資性租賃提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員之範圍"},{"start":41166.371,"end":41182.662,"text":"第三項第六款指定之非金融事業或人員其適用之交易形態其得不適用第12條第一項申報規定之前項各款事業或人員由法務部會同中央目的事業主管機關報請行政院指定"},{"start":41183.823,"end":41206.729,"text":"第一項至第三項至金融機構事業或人員所從事之交易必要時但由法務部會同中央目的事業主管機關決定其達一定金額者應使用現金以外之支付工具第一項至第三項至金融機構事業或人員違反前項規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處交易金額二倍以下罰款"},{"start":41207.609,"end":41221.371,"text":"前6項之中央目的事業主管機關認定有疑議者由行政院決定之第4項第5項及前項之指定其事務設司法院者由行政院會同司法院決定之"},{"start":41224.98,"end":41239.678,"text":"第6條提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務知識業或人員未向中央目的事業主管機關完成洗錢方式服務難量登記或帶路者不得提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務"},{"start":41240.299,"end":41265.809,"text":"境外設立師提供虛擬資產服務﹐第三方支付服務則是業或人員﹐分依公司法辦理公司或分公司設立登記﹐並完成洗錢防制﹐服務難量登記或登錄者﹐不得在我國境內提供虛擬資產服務﹐第三方支付服務提供虛擬資產服務則是業或人員﹐辦理前項洗錢防制登記則申請條件﹐程序撤銷或廢止登記"},{"start":41269.17,"end":41293.161,"text":"虛擬資產上下價值審查機制防止不公正交易機制自由資產與客戶資產分離保管方式資訊系統與安全錢包管理機制及其他應遵形式向之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關定制提供第三方支付服務之事業或人員辦理第一項洗錢防止及服務難量登錄之申請條件"},{"start":41294.301,"end":41318.998,"text":"程序撤銷或廢止登錄及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關定之違反第一項規定為完全洗錢房置服務能量登記或登錄而提供虛擬資產服務第四方支付服務或及洗錢房置登記經撤銷或廢止服務能量登錄經廢止或失效而然提供虛擬資產服務"},{"start":41320.439,"end":41336.61,"text":"第三方支付服務者處二年下有期徒刑、軍役或科或病科薪財幣500萬元以下罰金﹐法人犯及向知罪者處處罰行其行為人為﹐對該法人亦可以前向10倍以下之罰金"},{"start":41339.229,"end":41362.285,"text":"第7條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員應依期前與資控風險及業務規模建立期前防制內部控制與集合制度其內容應包括下列事項一、防制期前及打擊資控制作業及控制程序二、定期舉辦或參加防制期前之暫時訓練三、指派專責人員負責協調監督第一款事項之執行"},{"start":41368.029,"end":41373.533,"text":"4.備制或定期更新防制期間及打擊指控風險評估報告5."},{"start":41373.533,"end":41375.035,"text":"計劃程序6."},{"start":41375.035,"end":41386.024,"text":"其當今中央目的事業主管機關注定諸事項前項制度則實行中央目的事業主管機關應定其查核並等委託其他機關共法人或團體辦理"},{"start":41387.325,"end":41401.832,"text":"第一項制度之實施內容、作業程序、執行措施、前項查核之方式、順委託之資格條件及其他應遵警示常識辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、保護部及相關機關定制與訂令前應徵詢問相關公會之意見"},{"start":41405.574,"end":41429.348,"text":"違反第一項規定外建立制度或前項辦法中有關制度之實施內容作業程序執行措施之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關限期令其改善藉其為發散者處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上、1000萬元以下罰款處指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元以下罰款並得按次處罰"},{"start":41431.289,"end":41448.901,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員規避、拒絕或妨礙限地或非限地查核者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上500萬元下發還處指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上250萬元下發還並得按次處罰"},{"start":41452.384,"end":41466.8,"text":"第8條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員應進行確認客戶身份程序並留存其確認客戶身份程序所得資料其確認客戶身份程序應以風險為基礎並應包括實施受益人質審查"},{"start":41469.202,"end":41486.14,"text":"傾向確認客戶身份程序所得資料因自業務關係終止時期至少保存5年臨時性交易者因自臨時性交易終止時期至少保存5年但法律另有較長保存期間規定者從其規定"},{"start":41490.12,"end":41508.525,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員﹐對信任或曾任國內外政府或國際組織重要政治性職務之客戶﹐或事務委員與其家庭成員及有密切關係之人﹐應以風險為基礎﹐執行加強客戶審查程序"},{"start":41509.725,"end":41536.356,"text":"第一項確認客戶身份範圍、留存確認資料之範圍、程序、方式及前項加強客戶審查之範圍、程序、方式之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關會商法務部及相關機關定之與訂定前應徵詢相關工會之意見前項重要政治性職務之人與其家庭成員及有密切關係之人之範圍由法務部定之"},{"start":41538.077,"end":41561.736,"text":"違反第一項至第三項規定或前項鎖定拜訪中有關確認客戶身份、留存確認資料、家長客戶審查之範圍、程序與方式之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元收益千萬元下發款除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元下發款並得按次處罰"},{"start":41564.093,"end":41582.41,"text":"第9條 為配合防止其前期打擊自控制國際合作金融目的事業主管機關及決定之非金融事業或人員之中央目的事業主管機關的自行或經營法務部調查局通報對其前或自控高風險國家或地區為下列措施"},{"start":41582.99,"end":41612.334,"text":"一、令金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員強化相關交易之確認客戶身份措施二、限制或禁止金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員與洗錢或滋控高風險國家或地區為匯款或其他交易三、採取其他與風險相當且有效之必要防制措施前項所稱洗錢或滋控高風險國家或地區指下列之一者"},{"start":41616.12,"end":41636.512,"text":"一、經國際防制洗錢組織公告防制洗錢及打擊滋控有嚴重缺失之國家或地區二、經國際防制洗錢組織公告未遵循或未充分遵循國際防制洗錢組織經營之國家或地區三、其他有具體事證任由洗錢及滋控高風險之國家或地區"},{"start":41637.913,"end":41656.699,"text":"第10條金融金融局決定之非金融事業或人員應執行業務而辦理國內外交易應留存必要交易記錄前項必要交易記錄之保存自交易完成時期應至少保存5年但法律令有交償保存期間規定者從其規定"},{"start":41657.959,"end":41683.935,"text":"第一項留存必要交易記錄之使用交易範圍、程序、方式之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、法務部及相關機關定之與訂定前應徵詢相關工會之意見違等第一項、第二項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關留存必要交易記錄之範圍、程序、方式之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關、儲金融機構、新台幣五千萬元上億千萬元下發還"},{"start":41684.915,"end":41710.52,"text":"除指定之非金融事業或人員信貸幣五萬元以上五百萬元向罰款並等案自處罰第11條非信託業之受託人與信託關係存續中必須取得並持有足夠證據與最新有關信託之委託人、受託人、輸贏人及任何其他最終有效控制信託之自然人之身份資訊"},{"start":41711.54,"end":41734.725,"text":"其持有其他信託代理人信託服務業者基本資訊前向受託人應就前向信託資訊進行申報並於資訊發生變更時主動更新申報資訊第一項非信託業之受託人以非信託業之指定之非金融事業或人員或其他法人為限其受理申報之機關如下"},{"start":41735.405,"end":41751.943,"text":"一、指定之非金融事業或人員擔任受託人者為各該業別之主管機關二、遣款以外之法人擔任受託人者為各該目的事業主管機關數多人自信託關係終止時期應保存第一項職資訊至少5年"},{"start":41754.005,"end":41782.646,"text":"第一項受託人以信託財產與金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員建立義務關係或進行打一定金額之臨時性交易時應主動揭露其在信託中之地位第二項是申報更新申報之範圍、方式、程序前項一定金額之範圍、揭露方式及其他應遵行事項之辦法由法務部會上相關機關定之違反第二項、第四項、第五項或前項鎖定辦法中"},{"start":41783.206,"end":41794.161,"text":"有關第二項申報更新申報之分為方式、程序或第五項揭露方式之規定者由第三項受理申報機關處新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元下滑關並得按次處罰"},{"start":41801.144,"end":41826.439,"text":"第12條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員對於達一定金額之通貨交易處本法另有規定外應向法務部調查局申報金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員依前項規定為申報者免除其業務上應保守秘密之義務該機構或事業之負責人、董事、經理人及職員一同"},{"start":41827.579,"end":41840.594,"text":"第一項擬定金額、通貨交易之範圍、種類、申報之範圍、方式、程序及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、法務部及相關機關頂知與訂定前應徵詢相關工會之意見"},{"start":41844.177,"end":41857.266,"text":"違反第一項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關申報之範圍方式程序是規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處信用機構新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元以上罰款"},{"start":41859.544,"end":41880.374,"text":"處指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上500萬元下罰款並得按次處罰第13條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員對疑似犯第19條、第20條之最終交易應向法務部調查局申報其交易為完整者異同"},{"start":41881.374,"end":41906.48,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員依前項規定為申報者免除其義務上應保守秘密之義務該機構或事業之負責人、董事、經理人及職員一同第一項之申報範圍、方式程序及其上應遵循時上市辦法由中央目的事業主管機關會商、法務部及相關機關領域之與訂定前應申詢相關工會之意見"},{"start":41907.7,"end":41931.318,"text":"前項第7條、第3項、第8條、第4項、第10條、第3項及前條、第3項之辦法其事務設司法院者由司法院會上行政院定之違反第一項規定或第三項所定辦法中有關申報之範圍、方式、程序之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上、1千萬元下發還"},{"start":41932.299,"end":41958.099,"text":"除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上500萬元下罰款並等案自處罰第14條與客戶隨交通工具服務之人員出入境攜帶下列之物應向海關申報海關受理申報後應向法務部調查局通報一、總價值達一定金額之外幣香港或澳門發行之貨幣及新台幣現金"},{"start":41960.381,"end":41980.813,"text":"2、總命而達一定金額之有價證券3、總價值達一定金額之黃金4、其他總價值達一定金額且有被利用進行洗錢之與之物品以貨物運送、快遞、郵寄或其他生類型方法運送且向各款物品出入境者依同"},{"start":41981.933,"end":42003.841,"text":"前二項注意定金額、有價證券、黃金、物品、座零申報與通報之範圍程序及其他應遵循市場資本法由財政部、匯商、法務部、中央銀行、金融監督管理委員會定之外幣、香港貨、澳門發行及貨幣為依第一項、第二項規定申報者其超過前項規定金額的部分"},{"start":42006.144,"end":42033.533,"text":"由海關募入之申報不實者其超過申報部分由海關募入之有價證券、黃金物品為依第一項第二項規定宣報或申報不實者由海關處以相當於其超過前項規定金額部分或申報不實之有價證券、黃金物品價額之罰還新台幣依第一項第二項規定宣報者超過中央銀行依中央銀行法第18條注意第一項鎖定性額部分應予退役"},{"start":42034.754,"end":42046.93,"text":"第一項第二項規定申報者其超過第三項規定進額部分由海關募入之申報不審者其超過申報部分由海關募入之均不使用中央銀行法第18條之一第二項規定"},{"start":42049.331,"end":42058.423,"text":"納諾地區發行之貨幣以第一項、第二項鎖定方式出入境應依台灣地區、大陸地區人民關係條例相關規定辦理總價值超過統條例第38條第5項鎖定限額時海關印象防護調查局通報"},{"start":42065.231,"end":42081.96,"text":"第15條 海關常務委員簽條第一項或第二項規定申報或申報不實之物應予扣留但該扣留之物為簽條第一項的管制務者其所有人、管理人或持有人得向海關申請提供足額支保證金准予撤銷、扣留後發還之"},{"start":42083.661,"end":42101.673,"text":"第16條海關1第14條第4項後段懲處罰款與處分書送達後為防止受處分人營利或移轉財產以逃避之行等免供單表向行政法院申請加工押或加處分但受處分人已提供相當單表者不在此限"},{"start":42103.374,"end":42132.183,"text":"第17條受理第12條、第13條申報及第14條通報之機關基於防制洗劫或打擊自控目的得就所受理申報通報之資料予以分析未辦理分析業務得向相關公務機關或分析公務機關調取必要之資料請向受理申報通報之機關就分析結果任由詐欺犯罪追討犯罪所得競選洗劫防制穩定金融秩序及淺化武器合作之必要時得分送國內外相關機關"},{"start":42133.343,"end":42148.981,"text":"相關公務機關禁於防制洗錢打擊私口目的或因其他法律規定本項第一項受理申報通報至機關查詢所受理申報通報至相關資料前三項資料與分析結果之種類、氛圍、運用、調取、分送、查詢之程序"},{"start":42149.542,"end":42175.052,"text":"方順其其他相關事項指本法由法務部定之第18條陳昌文與珍藏中有事實組任被告利用帳戶、匯款、通貨或其他支付工具判第19條或第20條之罪者得申請高官法院指定6個月以內之期間對該筆交易之財產為電子提款、轉帳、付款、交付轉帳或其他必要處分之命令"},{"start":42175.652,"end":42198.2,"text":"其情況及或有相當理由主任非立即為傷害命令不得不能保全的沒收之財產或證據者檢察官得禁命執行之但應於執行後3日內申請法院補發命令法院如不於3日內補發或檢察官未執行後3日內申請法院補發命令者應即停止執行"},{"start":42198.94,"end":42226.899,"text":"前項禁止提款轉賬、付款、交付、轉賬或其他必要處分之命令﹐法官與審判中得以職權為之前二項命令應與書面為之﹐並準用《刑事訴訟法》第128條規定第一項則決定期間﹐如有繼續延長之必要者﹐檢察官應檢附具體理由﹐正是於期間屆滿生前5日申請該管法院裁定﹐但延長期間不得於6個月﹐並以延長一次為限"},{"start":42228.34,"end":42252.088,"text":"對於外國政府機構或國際組織依第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與互惠原則形成我國協助徵案件如所涉之犯罪行為符合第3條所列之罪隨便在我國偵查或審判終者亦待准用前四項規定對第1項、第2項證明令和第4項裁定不符者准用刑事訴訟法第4編抗告之規定"},{"start":42253.769,"end":42273.105,"text":"第19條有第二條個款所列﹐期前行為者﹐處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑﹐並科新台幣1億元以下罰金﹐其期前捐贈或採取上利益﹐為達新台幣1億元者﹐處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑﹐並科新台幣5千萬元以下罰金﹐請向之未遂犯罰之"},{"start":42274.326,"end":42296.895,"text":"第20條 收受持有或使用之財權或財者上的利益﹐有下列情形之一而無合理來源者﹐處6月以上5年下有期徒刑﹐得併更新台幣5000萬元下罰金﹐一、冒名、假名或其他與身份相關之不實資訊﹐向金融機構提供虛擬支撐服務﹐或第三方支付服務之事業或人員申請開立帳戶、帳號"},{"start":42299.136,"end":42316.603,"text":"二、以不正方法取得使用他人向金融機構申請開支帳戶﹐向提供虛擬資產服務﹐或第三方支付服務之事業或人員申請支帳號﹐三、規避第8條、第10條至第13條﹐鎖定洗錢防制程序﹐傾向之未遂反罰之"},{"start":42318.703,"end":42336.551,"text":"第21條無正當理由收集他人向金融機構申請開立局賬戶﹐向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務徵事業或人員﹐申請局賬號﹐而有下列執行之意者﹐除5年下有期徒刑﹐遵意或跟我併格新台幣3000萬元下滑金﹐"},{"start":42337.091,"end":42359.699,"text":"一、冒用政府機關或公務員名義犯之二、以廣播電視、電子通訊、網信網路或其他媒體等傳播工具﹐對公眾散佈而犯之三、以電腦合成或其他科技方法﹐製作關於他人不適應效聲音或電子記錄之方法犯之四、以契約或交付對價﹐使他人交付或提供而犯之"},{"start":42360.579,"end":42385.551,"text":"5、以強暴脅迫詐術、監視、控制、引誘或其他不正方法的犯罪、傑向之未遂犯罰之第22條：任何人不得將自己或他人向金融機構申請開支帳戶向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務正式約會人員申請之帳號交付提供與他人使用但符合一般商業金融交易習慣"},{"start":42386.371,"end":42400.227,"text":"或經與親友兼性戀關係或其他正當旅遊者不在此限違反前項規定者由直轄市縣市政府警察機關財主告誡經財主告誡後逾5年再違反前項規定者意圖"},{"start":42401.528,"end":42424.637,"text":"違反第一項規定而有項鏈擬行追責﹑處3年下有期徒刑、追業或供貨併客新台幣100萬元下罰金一、其約貨輸售對價而犯之二、交付提供至帳戶或帳號合計3個以上三、禁止強勢縣市政府、警察機關因前項或第4項規定裁除後5年以內再犯前項第一款或第二款前行應依第二項規定由該管機關並與裁處之"},{"start":42427.778,"end":42456.334,"text":"違反第一項規定者﹐輕重機構提供虛擬資產服務﹐及第三方支付服務者事業或人員﹐應對其已開立之帳戶帳號﹐或予開立之新帳戶帳號﹐於一定期間內﹐暫停或限制該帳戶帳號之全部﹐或部分功能﹐或禁與關閉﹐其上帳戶帳號之暫定期準﹐暫停限制功能﹐或禁與關閉之期間範圍﹐程序﹐方式﹐作業程序之辦法"},{"start":42457.274,"end":42478.587,"text":"由法務部會同中央目的事業主管機關定之警政主管機關應會同社會福利主管機關建立個案通報機制與依第二項規定為構建處分室堂之性有社會救助需要之個人或家庭應通報指甲室縣市社會福利主管機關協助其獲得《社會救助法》鎖定社會救助"},{"start":42479.915,"end":42492.626,"text":"第23條法人均代表人、代理人、受惠人或其他從業人員應執行業務五分前四條制罪者處處罰行為人位對該法人並可以十倍影響罪罰金"},{"start":42494.574,"end":42513.505,"text":"但法人之代表人或自然人對於犯罪之發生以盡力為防止行為者不在此限判第19條是第21條徵罪與犯罪後自首如有所得並自動繳交全部所得財務者減輕或免除期刑兵而使司法警察機關或檢察官得以"},{"start":42514.346,"end":42541.437,"text":"後押全部起前尊財物或財產上利益或償獲其他證份或公範者免除其刑犯遣赤條之罪﹐在徵償及歷次審判中均自白者如有所得並自動繳交全部所得財物者檢清其刑兵額許司法警察、警官或檢察官等以後押全部起前尊財物或財產上利益或償獲其他證份或公範者檢清或免除其刑"},{"start":42542.197,"end":42563.525,"text":"第19條、第20條或第21條之罪與中華民國人民在中華民國領域外犯罪者使用之第19條之罪不以本法鎖定特定犯罪之行為或結果在中華民國領域內為必要但該特定犯罪依行為定之法律不法者不在此限"},{"start":42565.666,"end":42576.704,"text":"第24條公務員泄露或交副官員申報疑似犯第19條、第20條之罪之交易或犯第19條、第20條之罪嫌疑之文書"},{"start":42580.917,"end":42596.313,"text":"圖畫消息或物品者處3點下有期徒刑第5條第1項之第3項不具公務員身份之人洩漏或交付官員申報疑性犯第19條第20條之罪之詔意或犯例19條第20條之罪嫌疑之"},{"start":42597.174,"end":42624.031,"text":"文書、圖畫、消息或物品者﹐處案臨下有期徒刑、拘役或薪條逼50萬元下罰金第25條 範例19條第20條知罪﹐洗錢捐財物或財產上利益﹐不問屬於犯罪行為人與否沒收之範例19條或第20條知罪﹐由事實足以證明行為人所在支配之前項規定﹐以外捐財物或財產上利益﹐"},{"start":42624.591,"end":42646.986,"text":"借取自其他違反行為所得者、沒收之：對於外國政府、機構或國際組織：第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與會員則請求我國協助執行後押後沒收之案件如所涉之犯罪行為符合第三條所列之罪：不以在我國偵查或審判終者為謝"},{"start":42649.775,"end":42666.107,"text":"第26條但本法之罪沒收之犯罪所得為現金或有價證券以外之財務者等由法務部撥交檢查機關、司法警察機關或其他協助查緝嫌犯罪之機關作公務上使用"},{"start":42666.747,"end":42693.995,"text":"我國與外國政府經過或國際組織 國際組織依第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與互惠原則協助執行沒收犯罪所得或其他追討犯罪所得作為者法務部等依條約、協定或互惠原則將該沒收財產之全部或一部撥交該外國政府經過或國際組織或請求撥交沒收財產之全部或一部款項"},{"start":42695.795,"end":42721.932,"text":"請人向募收財產之報銷辦法由行政院定之﹐第27條﹐法務部辦理防制洗錢業務的設置基金﹐第28條﹐為防止洗錢政府依互惠原則﹐等與外國政府、金融或國際組織簽訂防制洗錢之條約或協定﹐對於外國政府、金融或國際組織﹐請求我國協助政案件﹐除條約或協定另有規定準位﹐"},{"start":42722.452,"end":42740.139,"text":"得盡予互惠原則提供第12條之第14條處理什麼或通報這資料及其調查結果依第一項規定以外之其他條約或協定所交換之資訊能給予互惠原則為防制洗劫或打擊滋口墓地之用"},{"start":42741.099,"end":42755.156,"text":"但依該條約或協定規定﹐禁止或依符合一定要件﹐取得為特定目的外之用者從其規定臺灣地區與大陸地區﹐香港及澳門間之洗錢防制﹐全用前三項規定"},{"start":42757.526,"end":42783.06,"text":"第29條 外政辦席檢犯罪檢察官得意之權或依司法檢察官申請提書控制下交付之偵查計劃書並檢附相關資料報請檢察長核稿後核發偵查指揮書前項控制下交付之偵查計劃書應記載下列事項一、犯罪行人或被告人聯繫資料二、所犯罪名三、所涉犯罪事實"},{"start":42784.161,"end":42796.754,"text":"4、使用控制上交付調查犯罪之必要性5、洗錢行為、探樣、標的及數量6、偵查犯罪所需期間、方法及其他作為、侵其他必要之事項"},{"start":42799.574,"end":42828.742,"text":"第30條第7條第2項是查核第7條第4項第5項第8條第5項第10條第4項第12條第4項第13條第5項之採取及其調查中央目的事業主管機關等委辦直轄市縣市政府辦理並由直轄市縣市政府定期呈報查核成效第31條本法除第6條及第11條之施行日期由行政院定之外"},{"start":42829.262,"end":42845.334,"text":"自公佈日事行宣讀完畢委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議洗錢防治法修正通過"},{"start":42849.4,"end":42873.897,"text":"報告委員會 邱志偉委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報報告委員會 我們繼續處理審查會及協商結論通過之附帶決議請議事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容審查會通過附帶決議二項一 請法務部與內政部警政署針對性質為行政處分之告誡"},{"start":42875.067,"end":42896.254,"text":"嚴釐相關救濟程序並加強宣導相關行政救濟程序並於告誡處分書以明顯可知之方式標明相關行政救濟程序及告誡效果與當面交付受告誡者情形得以延遲告知相關程序二、要求金融監督管理委員會針對研議"},{"start":42900.245,"end":42910.637,"text":"虛擬資產專法草案資架構內容草案審議進度草案擬具過程在草案提出前每6個月向立法院相關委員會提出報告"},{"start":42913.406,"end":42939.302,"text":"寫章結論通過附帶決議事項一、數位發展部應於本法修正通過兩年內會上金融監督管理委員會提出第三方支付服務業之管理規則並共同於六個月內第三方支付服務之洗錢防制相關監管業務以致金融監督管理委員會進行研議提出書面報告送交立法院二"},{"start":42940.977,"end":42955.262,"text":"數位發展部應於6個月內﹐針對電子商務平台及第三方支付業者之管理研議﹐建立適當內控制度及管理機制﹐並確實落實3.數位發展部會商經濟部應於6個月內﹐"},{"start":42958.919,"end":42984.938,"text":"研議對電商平台建立相關管理規範並督導第三方支付服務業者對電商平台落實KYC之可行性要求數位發展部、會商經濟部、經管會及相關部會應於6個月內就未完成登錄之處罰以及管制不得及時兌付等事項共同研議相關管理規範選讀完畢"},{"start":42988.103,"end":43007.943,"text":"本院會依協商結論均照案通過本院會廖先祥委員聲明對剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄本院會完成立法程序後發言首先我們請吳宗憲委員發言黃珊珊委員請準備"},{"start":43023.075,"end":43048.058,"text":"向全國人民報告國內詐欺犯行橫行已成民怨之首只是單獨通過的打詐法案包括詐欺專法以及洗錢防治法使人欣慰原本應該開心但是本席也是覺得沉重畢竟在如此朝野皆對抗下能夠有法案順利過關都實屬難得但是立法院多年來對於"},{"start":43049.577,"end":43065.705,"text":"修法義務的怠惰其實使詐欺案件數節節高升這次執政黨願意修法其實背後都是許多家庭被騙之後的血淚翻開過去的故事很多家庭因為被詐騙之後而自殺"},{"start":43066.886,"end":43092.14,"text":"如果我們執政黨能夠早點重視民生的法案早點回憶也許可以救下更多的家庭根據刑事局2023年一整年民眾被詐騙案件的統計被詐騙的金額高達88.78億元總件數也達3萬件都創史上新高所以打仗打了這麼多年這麼多的打仗辦公室究竟成效如何其實數據都會說話"},{"start":43094.541,"end":43114.167,"text":"對於詐騙我們的要求非常的簡單就是騙得越多就要關得越久我們要追回所有的詐騙金額這樣才是對人民有所交代這次三讀通過立法之後還有一些需要精進的作為例如針對目前第三方支付業者真正有能量登錄通過的"},{"start":43114.867,"end":43116.948,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43132.894,"end":43152.787,"text":"造成成本的浪費然後勞民傷財一切從源頭管理請記住民生要大於政治人民要大於政黨我們一起對好人更好對壞人更壞謝謝各位謝謝吳宗憲委員的發言接著請黃珊珊委員發言請鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":43161.958,"end":43178.403,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝各位同仁我們很欣慰今天《刑前防治法》通過那剛剛大家所表決的這個法案我要在這邊特別的再強調為什麼台灣民眾黨非常堅持要在第19條要把它修正的加重因為"},{"start":43180.044,"end":43196.442,"text":"審查會通過的條文裡面很清楚他是一年以上七年以下但是我們的條文是三年以上十年以下這是在一億元以上的洗錢犯如果按照原來的版本一年以上七年以下洗錢大戶是有機會透過"},{"start":43199.322,"end":43214.401,"text":"認罪協商甚至去罰錢他就可以免於刑責可以緩起訴可以緩刑所以我們的法條修得非常清楚我們必須要在最低本刑三年以上我們才能夠懲戒所謂的洗錢大戶"},{"start":43215.222,"end":43215.642,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43237.933,"end":43252.861,"text":"這個《洗錢防治法》從頭到尾都在幫金管會擦屁股為什麼?他把虛擬資產業者放進來管一部《洗錢防治法》本來應該好好的去規範洗錢的行為但是我們成為了虛擬資產業者的管理辦法"},{"start":43255.322,"end":43281.729,"text":"所以剛剛聽到了那麼多的附帶決議全部都是在幫金管會在這麼多年以來忽略了新興通路忽略了相關的新興的產業他們對於洗錢的行為這些防制作為金管會視而不見沒有看見所以剛剛下了非常多的決議要他們在6個月之內包括第三方支付包括數位資產、虛擬資產這些都必須要列入管理"},{"start":43282.569,"end":43303.644,"text":"監管會把責任推給了法務部這部洗錢防治法謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來請鍾嘉斌委員請發言"},{"start":43311.479,"end":43327.97,"text":"主席在討論先進《洗錢防制法》三讀通過這是草野共同努力的結果雖然這版本跟民進黨的修正動議有段距離但是我們仍然期待未來洗房的業務能夠持續的精進國家防詐、打詐國家隊的進行"},{"start":43331.753,"end":43348.135,"text":"那麼我還是要重申其實剛剛誠如黃珊珊委員所說的洗錢它是一個複雜的產業關係有程度不一的參與者那麼透過適當的刑度切割我們可以讓不同的參與者得到應有的懲罰"},{"start":43349.136,"end":43354.158,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43372.043,"end":43399.675,"text":"這些涉嫌人那麼因此呢我們對於啊為能夠保留為能夠保留我們條文當中一年以上七年以下這個刑法當中應有的刑度而直接拉高到三年以上十年以下呢還是覺得有點遺憾不過誠如剛剛黃委員所說的後面後續的這四個附帶決議都代表著民進黨對於打詐防詐防制洗錢我們所做的努力對於任何新興的金融機構或是相關的"},{"start":43400.895,"end":43426.958,"text":"致富行業包括電商平台包括第三方支付包括電子支付我們都認為未來仍有待相關主管機關持續的努力洗錢防治法不是到今天為止我們希望未來透過更完整的修法再參著日後執行的必要我們能夠進一步的將洗錢防治業務做必要的分析跟分割也未來呢讓這個法條能夠精進有助於包括所有的執法機關能夠"},{"start":43428.759,"end":43432.162,"text":"幫助國人永遠免除被詐欺的噩夢以上謝謝"},{"start":43447.737,"end":43460.77,"text":"協商後提出本次會議來處理報告院會本案因協商過一個月時間無法達成共識依立法院職權新設法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理"},{"start":43461.363,"end":43487.318,"text":"因此於本次會議提出討論現在進行廣泛討論沒有任何黨團推派委員發言報告委員會現有台灣民眾黨黨團依據立法院職權新司法第9條規定提議將本案重複審查請問委員會有無異議沒有異議沒有異議那我們本案我們就退回委員會重新審查"},{"start":43489.005,"end":43501.779,"text":"報告委員會我們進入討論事項第32案刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案報告委員會本案因為超過一個月時間無法達成共識依立法院職權刑事法第71條之1規定"},{"start":43504.363,"end":43527.822,"text":"由院會定期處理：原於本次會期提出討論：現在進行廣泛討論：沒有任何黨團推派委員來發言報院會現在本案有三個黨團共同所提修正動議本案逐條討論時竟依依照三個黨黨團共同修正動議來處理行事訴訟法請宣讀"},{"start":43532.947,"end":43554.762,"text":"第七十條之一第七十條之一第六十七條之一第六十九條之規定於此物申請串銷或變更檢查事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察處分之期間者准用之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第十章之一"},{"start":43555.882,"end":43559.724,"text":"第11章之一特殊強制處分宣讀完畢"},{"start":43565.034,"end":43592.406,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案徵定153條之一 照三黨團修正動議不予徵定台灣民眾黨黨團提案徵定第153條之一吳宗憲等提案徵定第153之二 照三個黨團修正動議不予徵定台灣民眾黨黨團提案徵定第153條之二 照三個黨團修正動議通過不予徵定請宣讀"},{"start":43594.141,"end":43599.185,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團吳宗憲委員分別提案增訂第153條之3第153條之1153條之3"},{"start":43667.54,"end":43683.291,"text":"第153條之一為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時得使用全球衛星定位系統或其他非以辨識個人生物特徵之科技方法對被告或犯罪行為人追蹤位置"},{"start":43684.331,"end":43709.082,"text":"對第3人實施前項調查已有相當理由可信與被告犯罪嫌疑人、證人或因扣押之物或電子紀錄有所關聯時違憲前二項實施期間不得於連續24小時或累計於2日實施當日不足24小時以一日計由再次或繼續實施之必要者致詞應於再次實施前或期間屆滿前"},{"start":43710.442,"end":43725.557,"text":"由檢察官依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載第153條之五第一項各款之事實與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":43726.998,"end":43743.386,"text":"實施第一項、第二項調查前﹐可預期實施期間﹐將於連續24小時或累計於二日者﹐得於實施前﹐依前項規定向該委員法院申請合法許可書﹐前二項法院許可之期間﹐每次不得於30日﹐"},{"start":43744.406,"end":43760.171,"text":"有繼續實施之必要者﹐致時應於期間屆滿專案日前﹐由檢察官依職權或由司法警察官報請檢察官許可後﹐以書面記載具體理由﹐向該委員法院申請合法許可書宣讀完畢"},{"start":43763.598,"end":43769.467,"text":"照三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之一請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團吳宗憲委員分別提案增訂第153條之四"},{"start":43778.123,"end":43794.265,"text":"第153條之二為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時得使用科技方法調查被告或犯罪行人管理或使用之行動通訊設備之位置、設備號碼或使用之卡片號碼"},{"start":43795.386,"end":43809.602,"text":"對第三人管理或使用者行動通訊設備之位置﹐設備號碼或使用者卡片號碼實施前項調查﹐已有相當理由可信與被告﹐犯罪行人證人或因扣押之物﹐或電磁記錄有所關聯是違憲﹐"},{"start":43811.244,"end":43834.933,"text":"前二項情形應由檢察官依依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載第153條之五第一項各款之事實至四項與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該委員法院申請合法許可書前項許可書期間每次不得於30日由繼續實施之必要者"},{"start":43835.453,"end":43862.813,"text":"致詞應於期間屆滿至2日前由檢察官一職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載具體理由向邊外法院申請合法許可書實施第一項第二項調查時應記住上無可避免取得非受調查人之個人資料除為供第一項第二項之比對目的外不得使用且於調查實施結束後應即刪除宣讀完畢"},{"start":43864.212,"end":43869.954,"text":"到三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之二請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團吳宗憲委員等分別提案增訂第153條之五"},{"start":43880.475,"end":43905.937,"text":"第153條之五為為調查最重本行五年以上有期徒刑之罪有相當理由可信被告或犯罪行人管領或使用具隱私或秘密合理其他之空間內之人或物與本案有關得從該空間外使用非實體侵入性之科技方法對該空間內之人或物監看或"},{"start":43906.797,"end":43923.135,"text":"監看及攝錄影像：對於第三人管領或使用具隱私或秘密合理其在住空間內之人或物實施前項調查：也有事實主任與被告、犯罪行人、證人或因扣押之物或電子記錄有所關聯時違憲"},{"start":43925.177,"end":43946.571,"text":"前二項進行應由檢察官依職權或由司法警察官報請檢察官許可後引書面記載第153條之五第一項各款徵事項與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書前項許可書期間每次不得逾30日有繼續實施之必要者"},{"start":43947.051,"end":43964.919,"text":"致詞應於期間屆滿之二日前由檢察官依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載具體理由向該管法院申請合法許可書宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為153條之3請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之6"},{"start":43976.021,"end":43989.052,"text":"第153條之6對軍事上應秘密之處所﹐非得該館長官允許﹐不得實施前條之調查﹐傑向僅行除有防害國家重大利益者外﹐不得拒絕宣讀完畢"},{"start":43990.649,"end":43996.112,"text":"照三個黨團修正動議條文通過,條次修正為第153條之4請宣讀,台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之7吳宗憲委員等提案增訂第153條之6請宣讀第153條之7"},{"start":44015.717,"end":44038.462,"text":"第153條之一至第153條之三之許可書應記載下列事項一、案有及涉犯之法條二、受調查人或物但受調查人不明者得不予記載三、使用之調查方法及使用該方法調查得取得之標的四、儘管之調查方法、裝飾或實施方式"},{"start":44039.522,"end":44067.989,"text":"5.執行機關6.實施期間合法許可書之程序不公開之法院必得於許可書上對執行人員為適當之指示第153條之一至第153條之三之申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符檢察官或合法許可書之法官等命執行機關提出執行期限之報告執行機關應與執行期間內依檢察官或法官指示作成報告書"},{"start":44069.17,"end":44088.332,"text":"說明執行行為之進行情形：以及有無繼續執行之需要：合法許可出示法官：並等於發現有不應繼續執行之情況時徵銷原合法之許可第128條諸二之規定與實施本章規定之調查時准用之宣讀完畢"},{"start":44089.093,"end":44094.681,"text":"照《三黨團修正動議條文》通過條次修正為第153條之5請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之8吳宗憲等委員提案增訂第153條之7"},{"start":44109.262,"end":44129.77,"text":"第153條之8與下列起刑之一檢察官檢查稅務官司法檢察官或司法警察有相當理由認為情況急迫而有立即實施之必要者得進行實施並於實施後三日內依各該條規定以書面申請該委員法院不發許可書"},{"start":44132.623,"end":44157.322,"text":"實施第153條之一之調查已於連續24小時或已累計於二日實施當日不足24小時以一日計二實施第153條之二、第153條之三之調查前項之調查有項鍊其行之一者應即停止實施一檢察官不許可獲予報請日其餘三日未為許可之決定二"},{"start":44157.822,"end":44173.957,"text":"法院未補發許可書未於申請日期逾3日未為補發許可書自裁定法院補發許可書者實施期間自實施之日起算第1項之申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符宣讀完畢"},{"start":44174.998,"end":44189.169,"text":"照三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之6請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之9吳宗憲等委員提案增訂第153條之8台灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之9委員吳宗憲等20人提案第153條之8"},{"start":44201.994,"end":44228.766,"text":"今法院依第153條之一至第153條之三及前條核發或不發許可書實施之調查結束或依前條第二項停止實施後執行機關應續名授調查人之姓名、住所或居所許可書核發、機關文號實際調查期間有無獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序呈報該管檢察官及法院由法院通知授調查人"},{"start":44229.306,"end":44244.873,"text":"如任通知有防害調查目的之餘﹐通知顯有困難或不能通知者﹐應一併呈報調查結束或停止實施後﹐執行機關於一個月未為前項之呈報者﹐法院應於14日內主動通知受調查人﹐"},{"start":44245.493,"end":44261.954,"text":"但通知顯有困難或不能通知者﹐法院得不通知受調查人﹐法院對於第一項呈報﹐除有具體理由足證通知﹐有妨害調查目的之餘﹐通知顯有困難或不能通知之情形外﹐應通知受調查人"},{"start":44262.995,"end":44279.395,"text":"第一項不通知之原因消滅後執行機關應呈報法院補刑通知原因未消滅者應於第一項呈報後每三個月向法院呈報未消滅之情形與其未呈報者法院應於14日內主動通知受調查人"},{"start":44280.596,"end":44294.788,"text":"實施第153條之一之調查未於連續24小時或為未於累積二日者除通知有妨害調查目的之餘通知型有困難或不能通知之情形外應由執行機關與調查結束後一個月內"},{"start":44297.37,"end":44316.625,"text":"虛名受調查人之姓、名、住所或居所實際調查期間有無獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序通知受調查人並應每3個月檢視部通知知情形是否消滅如故通知之情形已消滅應即通知受調查人宣讀完畢"},{"start":44318.137,"end":44321.02,"text":"報告三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之7請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之10"},{"start":44331.168,"end":44349.586,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之10實施第153條之1至第153條之3及第153條之6調查所的資料與本案有關者除法律令有規定外應留存該案捲綜供本案偵查審判使用"},{"start":44350.066,"end":44371.844,"text":"不得作為其他程序之證據或其他用途實施第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所的其他案件資料不得作為證據對於實施期間屆滿後30日內埔行純報法院並經法院審查認可該案件與本案具有關聯性"},{"start":44373.705,"end":44402.435,"text":"或為最重本刑5年以上之罪者不在此限誰是第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所的資料除符合前二項情形外應即銷毀或刪除之不得作為司法偵查、審判其他程序之證據或其他用途但以供另案遵辦使用者不在此限第二項之呈報經法院補回者不得聲明不符"},{"start":44403.015,"end":44414.647,"text":"宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動力條文通過條次修正為第153條之8請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之11吳宗憲委員等提案增訂第153條之9"},{"start":44421.788,"end":44443.583,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之11委員吳宗憲等20人提案第153條之9為執行刑事裁判除其他法律領有規定外法官檢察官檢查事務官司法檢察官或司法警察而以本章式規定實施調查宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過修正條次為"},{"start":44446.894,"end":44458.094,"text":"修正為第153條之9請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之12吳宗憲委員等提案增訂第153條之10"},{"start":44460.966,"end":44476.597,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之二委員吳宗憲等人提案第153條之十受調查人及被告或犯罪嫌疑人之辯護人對於法官、檢察官依本章所為之裁定或處分"},{"start":44477.097,"end":44491.742,"text":"能向該管法院提起抗抗或申請串銷或變更之前向提起抗抗或申請期間為10日﹐自送達後起算﹐法院不得已以執行終結而無實意為由撥回第409條之第414條﹐第417條﹐第418條﹐第二項規定與本條準用之﹐對於第一項制裁定不得聲明不符"},{"start":44500.425,"end":44517.176,"text":"依本章實施調查之方式﹐所得資料之保存﹐管理及銷毀﹐存報與通知、救濟、監督及其他相關事項之辦法﹐由司法院會同行政院定之﹐宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過﹐條次修正為第153條之10﹐請宣讀第245條"},{"start":44522.827,"end":44549.273,"text":"第245條偵查不公開之被告或犯罪行人事辯護人等於檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察詢問該被告或犯罪行人事在場並得筆記及陳述意見但有事實足證其有防害國家機密或有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或勾充共犯或證人或防害他人名譽之餘或其行為不足"},{"start":44551.536,"end":44575.094,"text":"或其行為不當足以影響偵查秩序者得限制或禁止之前項限制或禁止是由應記名與筆錄檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察依第二項單書禁止辯護人在場致被告或犯罪行人或其他辯護人在場陪同應在行告示第95條第一項第二環第三環之事項"},{"start":44576.395,"end":44597.826,"text":"檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官、司法警察、滅戶人、高速代理人或其他與偵查程序依法執行職務之人員除依法令或為維護公共利益或保護合法權益有必要者外偵查中因執行職務窒息之事項不得公安或揭露與執行法定職務必要範圍以外之人員"},{"start":44599.226,"end":44618.937,"text":"偵查中詢問被告或犯罪嫌疑人士應將詢問之日時及處所通知辯護人但情況急迫者不在此限第一項偵查不公開作業辦法由司法院會同行政院定之宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過請宣讀增訂第245條之一"},{"start":44625.233,"end":44648.567,"text":"第245條之一被告犯罪嫌疑人及其辯護人對於前條第二項單書之限制或禁止不服者得向根管法院申請撤銷或變更之前項申請期間為10日自為限制或禁止之日起算請為送達者自送達後起算法院不得以執行終結而無實意為由駁回第409條至第414條第417條、第418條第二項規定與本條準用之"},{"start":44655.191,"end":44668.941,"text":"對於一定項制裁定不得抗告宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過第416條維持現行條文報告委員會全案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團三個黨團共同提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":44682.708,"end":44701.319,"text":"第70條之一第67條是第69條是規定致詞物與此物申請秤算或變更檢查事務官、司法檢察官或司法檢察處分之期間者准用之第11章之一特殊強制處分"},{"start":44702.745,"end":44717.731,"text":"第153條之一為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時得使用全球衛星定位系統或其他非以辨識個人生物特徵之科技方法對被告或犯罪嫌疑人追蹤位置"},{"start":44718.671,"end":44743.253,"text":"對第3人實施前項調查已有相當理由可信與被告、分罪行人、真人或因公押之誤或電子記錄有所關聯時違憲前二項實施期間不得於連續24小時或累計於2日實施當日不足24小時已依日記有再次或繼續實施之必要者至此應於再次實施前或期間屆滿前"},{"start":44744.634,"end":44761.773,"text":"由檢察官依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載第153條之五第一項任款之事項與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44763.615,"end":44790.931,"text":"實施第一項、第二項調查前﹐可預期實施期間﹐將於連續24小時﹐或累計逾2日者﹐得於實施前﹐依前項規定向該管法院﹐申請合法許可書前一項法院許可書﹐期間﹐每次不得逾30日﹐有繼續實施之必要者﹐致實應於期間屆滿至2日前﹐由檢察官移植權﹐或由司法警察官﹐報請檢察官許可後﹐"},{"start":44791.491,"end":44817.783,"text":"以書面記載具體理由向該管法院申請合法許可書第153條之二為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時﹐則使用科技方法調查被告或犯罪行人管理或使用之行動通訊設備之位置﹐設備號碼或使用之卡片號碼﹐對地鄉人管理或使用之行動通訊設備之位置﹐"},{"start":44818.923,"end":44845.199,"text":"設備號碼或使用之卡片號碼實施前項調查已有相當理由可信與被告分罪行人、證人或因扣押事物或電子記錄有所關聯時文獻前二項情形應由檢察官依依職權或由司法警察官報警檢察官許可後已書面介在第153條之五第一項各款之事項與實施調查之必要性及其理由"},{"start":44846.099,"end":44865.88,"text":"向該委員法院申請合法許可書請向許可書期間每次不得逾30日由繼續實施之必要者支持英語期間屆滿至2日前由檢察官依職權或由司法警察官報請檢察官許可後引書面記載具體理由向該委員法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44867.362,"end":44881.604,"text":"實施第一項、第二項調查時﹐應技術上無可避免取得非受調查人之個人資料﹐除未供第一項、第二項之比對目的外不得使用﹐且於調查實施結束後應即刪除"},{"start":44885.678,"end":44898.417,"text":"153 為調查最重本行五年以上有期徒刑之罪﹐有相當理由可信被告或犯罪行人﹐管領或使用具隱私或秘密合理其他之﹐空間內之人或物與本案有關"},{"start":44899.398,"end":44921.411,"text":"得從該空間外使用非實體侵入性質科技方法﹐對該空間內之人或物監看及攝錄影像﹐對於第三人管理或使用具隱私或秘密合理其他之空間內之人或物實施前項調查﹐也有事實主任與被告﹐分罪行人證人或因扣押之物﹐或電子記錄有所關聯時違憲﹐"},{"start":44924.793,"end":44940.261,"text":"前兩項進行應由檢察官一職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後已書面記載第153條之五第一項各款知識項與實施調查這必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44941.421,"end":44958.431,"text":"前項許可之期間﹐每次不得於30日﹐有繼續實施之必要者﹐至此應於﹐期間屆滿12日前﹐由檢察官應職權﹐或由司法檢察官﹐報請檢察官許可後﹐以書面記載具體理由﹐向該會法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44960.154,"end":44972.977,"text":"第153條之4對軍事上應秘密接觸所﹐非得該管長官允許不得實施前條之調查前項進行除有防害國家重大利益者外不得拒絕"},{"start":44974.795,"end":44997.871,"text":"第153條之5、第153條之1至第153條之3之許可書應記載下列事項一、案由及示範之法條二、受調查人或物、但受調查人不明者得目與記載三、使用之調查方法及使用該方法調查得取得之標的"},{"start":44999.713,"end":45003.055,"text":"4.檢管時調查方法、裝飾或實施方式5."},{"start":45003.055,"end":45004.616,"text":"執行機關6."},{"start":45004.616,"end":45012.38,"text":"實施期間合法許可書這程序不公開之法院並得予許可書上對執行人員為適當之指示第153條 至申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符"},{"start":45020.506,"end":45034.507,"text":"檢察官或核發許可書致法官等命執行機關提出執行情形之報告執行機關應與執行期間內依檢察官或法官指示作成報告書說明執行行為之致進行情形"},{"start":45035.589,"end":45052.164,"text":"以及有無繼續執行之需要合法許可書之法官﹐並得於發現有不應繼續執行之情況時﹐撤銷原合法之許可第128條諸二之規定﹐與實施本章規定之調查時準用之第153條之六"},{"start":45055.936,"end":45073.621,"text":"於下列情形之一檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察有相當理由認為情況急迫而有利其實施之必要者得進行實施並因於實施後三室內依各該條規定引書面申請該委員法院補發許可書"},{"start":45075.001,"end":45101.622,"text":"一、實施第153條之一之調查已於連續24小時或已累計於2日實施當日不足24小時已於日計二、實施第153條之二、第153條之三之調查其中之調查有下列進行之一者應即停止實施一、檢查會不許可或於報請日期"},{"start":45104.441,"end":45123.533,"text":"或於報請日期逾3日未為許可之決定二、法院未補發許可書或於申請日期逾3日未為補發許可書之裁定法院補發許可書者實施期間自實施之日起算第一項之申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符"},{"start":45125.205,"end":45152.589,"text":"第一百五十三條之七經法院依第一百五十三條注意至第一百五十三條之三即檢調核發或補發許可書實施至調查結束或依檢調第二項停止實施後執行機關應續名授調查人之姓名、住所或居所許可書核發、機關文號實施調查期間由獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序呈報該管檢察官及法院"},{"start":45153.149,"end":45176.528,"text":"由法院通知受調查人如任通知有防害調查目的之餘﹐通知行有困難或不能通知者﹐應疑並呈報調查結束或停止實施後﹐執行機關於一個月未為結箱之呈報者﹐法院應於14日內﹐主動通知受調查人﹐但通知行有困難或不能通知者﹐法院得不通知受調查人"},{"start":45177.228,"end":45205.282,"text":"法院對於第一項呈報除有具體理由足證通知有妨害調查目的之餘通知行有困難或不能通知之情形外應通知受調查人第一項目通知之原因消滅後執行機關應呈報法院補習通知原因未消滅者應於第一項呈報後每三個月向法院呈報未消滅之情形與其未呈報者法院應於14日內主動通知受調查人"},{"start":45206.603,"end":45222.604,"text":"實施第153條之一之調查未於連續24小時或未於累計2日者除通知有妨害調查目的之餘通知顯有困難或不能通知之情形外應由執行機關於調查結束後一個月內"},{"start":45223.565,"end":45241.115,"text":"虛名受調查人之姓名、住所或居所﹐實際調查期間﹐有無獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序﹐通知受調查人﹐並應每3個月檢視不通知之情形是否消滅﹐如不通知之情形已消滅﹐應即通知受調查人"},{"start":45242.662,"end":45262.777,"text":"第一百五十三條之八實施第一百五十三條之一至第一百五十三條之三及第一百五十三條之六調查所的資料與本案有關者屬法律另有規定外應留隨個案卷宗供本案偵查審判使用不得作為其他程序之證據或其他用途"},{"start":45263.537,"end":45273.882,"text":"實施第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所得其他案件則不得作為證據但予實施期間屆滿後30日內補刑呈報法院"},{"start":45279.685,"end":45299.372,"text":"並經法院審查認可該案件與本案具有關聯性或為罪重本行5年以上之罪者不在此限實施第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所的資料除符合前二項情形外因其銷毀或刪除之"},{"start":45300.532,"end":45327.173,"text":"不得作為司法偵查、審判其他程序之證據或其他用途但以供另案遵辦使用者不再辭現第二項制審報經法院補回者不得聲明不符第153條之9為執行刑事裁判除其他法律另有規定為法官檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察等依本章制規定實施調查"},{"start":45329.284,"end":45350.071,"text":"第153條之十﹐受調查人及被告或犯罪行人之辯護人﹐對於法官檢察官依本章所為之裁定或處分﹐得向該管法院提起抗告或申請撤銷或變更之﹐其向提起抗告或申請期間為10日﹐自送達後起算﹐法院不得以"},{"start":45352.592,"end":45379.89,"text":"以執行終結而無實役為由駁回第409條出第414條第417條、第418條第二項規定與本條準用之對於一定項制裁定不得聲明不符依本章實施調查之方式所得資料之保存管理及銷毀、承包、通知、救濟監督及其他相關事項之本法由司法院會同行政院定之"},{"start":45381.271,"end":45402.23,"text":"第245條 偵查不公開之﹐被告或犯罪行人事辯護人﹐等於檢察官、檢察事務官﹐司法檢察官或司法警察﹐詢問該被告或犯罪行人時在場﹐並得筆記及陳述意見﹐但有事實足證其有防害國家機密﹐或有湮滅、偽造、編造證據﹐"},{"start":45404.191,"end":45428.838,"text":"或勾串共犯或證人或妨害他人名譽之餘﹐目前行為不到足以影響偵查秩序者﹐得限制或禁止之前項限制或禁止是有應記名與筆錄檢察官檢查事務官﹐司法檢察官或司法警察﹐依第二項單書禁止編護人在場﹐致被告或犯罪行人﹐或其他編護人在場白頭"},{"start":45430.238,"end":45450.885,"text":"應在行告知第95條第一項、第二款、第三款知識上檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官、司法檢察、滅戶人、告訴代理人或其他與偵查程序依法執行職務之人員除依法令或為維護公共利益或保護合法權益有必要者為"},{"start":45451.765,"end":45475.41,"text":"偵查中應執行職務窒息之事項﹐不得公開或揭露與執行法定職務必要範圍以外之人員偵查中詢問被告或犯罪嫌疑人士﹐應將詢問之日時及處所通知辯護人﹐但其刑急迫者不在此限第一項偵查不公開作業辦法由司法院會同行政院定之"},{"start":45477.321,"end":45496.34,"text":"第二百四十五條之一被告犯罪行為人及其辯護人對於前條第二項單書之限制或禁止不服者則向根管法院申請撤銷或變更之曾向申請期間為十日自為限制或禁止之日起算其為送達者自送達後起算"},{"start":45496.94,"end":45521.577,"text":"法院不得以以執行終結而無實役為由撥回第409條至第414條第417條、第418條第二項規定與本條準用之對於第一項制裁定不得抗告宣讀完畢辦會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正"},{"start":45522.878,"end":45533.803,"text":"沒有文字修正我們作以下決議行事訴訟法增訂第70條之1條文第11章之1章名第153條之1至153條之10及第245條之1條文並將第245條條文修正通過歡迎先讓我們進行"},{"start":45549.963,"end":45578.726,"text":"完成立法程序後發言美委委員發言兩分鐘首先我們請黃國昌委員發言莊瑞雄委員請準備院長、本院委員歷經了多年的等待"},{"start":45579.96,"end":45591.796,"text":"我國的《刑事訴訟法》終於在今天賦予了科技偵查手段法源基礎這是一部遲到太久的法案"},{"start":45592.981,"end":45621.206,"text":"我希望利用三讀後發言的機會把這個遲到太久的法案向我們所有基層的檢察官、調查員還有警察致上最高的敬意謝謝你們辛苦的在第一線幫我們打擊犯罪但我同時也希望利用這個機會讓下他們深深的致歉"},{"start":45622.373,"end":45640.856,"text":"對不起讓你們等待太久了在過去這麼長的時間當中我們的罪犯我們的犯罪組織是利用日新科技的樂意在侵害人權在犯罪但我們基層的檢警"},{"start":45642.51,"end":45655.001,"text":"卻完全是停留在石器時代的土法煉鋼苦苦的追趕我們不能夠再讓壞人精神抖擻而好人已經疲憊"},{"start":45656.614,"end":45671.935,"text":"這一部在《刑事訴訟法》裡面所賦予科技偵查手段法源基礎的專章是我們邁向科技偵查跟人權保障重要里程碑"},{"start":45672.876,"end":45692.722,"text":"我要感謝所有在這一路上來針對在《刑事訴訟法》裡面制定科技偵查手段法源基礎非常多的朋友他們在幕後默默的協助謝謝你們也謝謝大家共同的支持謝謝黃國昌委員接下來請莊瑞雄委員發言吳宗憲委員請準備"},{"start":45708.87,"end":45725.787,"text":"謝謝院長我們在場所有的同仁大家晚安各位可能會發現我們的科技偵查法我們審理了那麼久不見了其實就在我們現在所審理的審完的行入訴訟法在153條之一"},{"start":45729.053,"end":45756.427,"text":"這部法令審理到現在本席有非常大的一個感慨立法院在審理任何的一個法案其實就是在憲法保障人權的架構之下同樣的邏輯這一部放在最後一刻放在刑事訴訟法的科技偵查法裡面我們在最後一刻把它放進去了四年前我們在審製部法令的時候中國國民黨的好朋友說這個叫做科技東廠法"},{"start":45758.096,"end":45782.222,"text":"4年後隨著犯罪形態的日新月異大家可以看到了科技偵查真的是一個好的法寶它就搖身一變了變成一個重要的武器但是4年前跟4年後到底有什麼樣的一個差別其實就是我們在審理的時候加入了干預的一個授權讓偵查機關找到了法律的授權的一個依據"},{"start":45783.422,"end":45807.967,"text":"同時搭配可能受侵害第三人發動科技偵查的嚴格的一個規定確保秘密偵查的手段不會波及到無辜所以我們強化了事後的一個通知跟後續的一個救濟本席非常清楚只要偵辦的機關動用這樣的一個秘密手段偵查機關有義務在調查結束以後通知當事人讓他有後續的一個救濟的一個手段"},{"start":45809.599,"end":45811.1,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":45838.876,"end":45842.979,"text":"謝謝莊瑞璇委員的發言接下來請吳宗憲委員發言請羅志強委員準備"},{"start":45858.261,"end":45879.98,"text":"工欲善其是必先利其器在數位的時代我們急需要科技偵查的法律依據我過去偵辦過很多的刑案所以我非常的清楚沒有這些科技偵查的手段根本無法溯源也無法瓦解犯罪集團的核心對好人更好對壞人更壞是我一貫的主張"},{"start":45881.277,"end":45888.903,"text":"我修科技偵查專章就是希望檢警能夠擁有更多的武器來對抗壞人來守護善良的百姓"},{"start":45889.997,"end":45913.026,"text":"在此之前連GPS、M化車都沒有法制化我們其實在國際上就像時器時代的國家在面對許多高科技的犯罪罪犯沒有辦法有效的增加犯罪集團的成本你刑度再怎麼增加都沒有辦法遏止犯罪這是科技專章的通過絕對可以有效改變我國目前所面臨的窘境"},{"start":45913.726,"end":45936.284,"text":"然而利用科技設備比起傳統的方式更為巨大侵害數位隱私層面會更廣不容忽視所以在這次的修法當中我也確保檢舉為了科技偵查的手段是合法符合比例原則的要法官能夠介入審核讓民眾有更全面的保障最後 敦請司法院"},{"start":45937.245,"end":45944.498,"text":"能夠盡力培養成神法官在面對科技思維的時候能夠在修法上與時俱進能夠盡事實修法之責"},{"start":45947.663,"end":45976.833,"text":"我曾經擔任過檢察官所以我非常的了解科技偵查對於我們國家的重要性以及對於保障人民的必要任何的犯罪偵查以及犯罪被害金額的取回都必須要有科技偵查為後盾在此我對於各位在場的立委獻上最深的敬意謝謝你們為了檢警為了這個國家為了偵查犯罪做出來的努力讓法案能夠順利三讀通過謝謝各位"},{"start":45989.745,"end":46015.91,"text":"謝謝吳宗憲委謝謝吳宗憲委的發言接下來請登記第4號羅志強委員請發言詐欺科技上太空檢調還在殺豬公過去台灣深受詐欺之苦"},{"start":46016.843,"end":46041.008,"text":"主要就是詐欺集團的各種的犯罪工具日新月異但是檢調在偵辦所謂的詐欺案件的武器顯不對等所以今天我們刑事訴訟法授予檢察機關、執法機關科技偵查的這樣的武器就是希望能夠來"},{"start":46042.848,"end":46062.006,"text":"制止我們今天詐欺的案件繼續為禍台灣人民我曾經看到一份民調他說96%的台灣人94%的台灣人都接過詐欺訊息我認為剩下6%的人可能不住在台灣啦"},{"start":46063.221,"end":46088.894,"text":"實際上幾乎詐欺已經變成是一個全民的一個悲劇而過去不管是這8年詐欺的金額、詐欺受害的人數、詐欺的案件都不斷創下歷史新高所以今天為什麼催生出科技偵查的法源就是希望今天讓我們檢方讓我們的司法單位有一個對等的武器"},{"start":46089.79,"end":46103.248,"text":"但這邊我也要必須說雖然草野修法給我們的司法檢調打詐的屠龍刀但是我真的希望不要變成侵犯人權以及政治增防的倚天劍"},{"start":46104.54,"end":46131.153,"text":"在我們審查法案的過程當中其實不只是我也包括民進黨的委員其實都提出了科技偵查的這個法律的權利的授予它是兩面刃一方面提高了打擊犯罪的強度另外一方面也要付出侵犯人權的代價所以我們也在這次的科技偵查的相關的法律規定裡面來去增加包括事後通知以及包括"},{"start":46158.042,"end":46172.027,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員報告院會報告院會本次會議所列的所有議程除了新住民制定案其他已經全部都處理完畢"},{"start":46173.427,"end":46188.248,"text":"但是新住民自定案我們還沒有達成共識所以我們現在本席宣布休息15分鐘請黨團幹部到後面院長會休息室我們再來協商只剩這一個案子了我們請休息15分鐘謝謝"},{"start":48266.601,"end":48291.411,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會報告事項第30案新住民權益保障法草案報告委員會因為協商已經超過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權新釋法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理原以本次會議提出討論報告委員會本案經各黨團同意以行政院提案為討論基礎"},{"start":48293.232,"end":48309.765,"text":"並依各黨團所提版本其中名稱第一、三、四、五條民進黨版本優先處理其餘依先後次序第二、八、十一條不作發言"},{"start":48310.866,"end":48324.839,"text":"現在我們進行廣泛討論依黨團共識由各黨團推派之代表發言每位委員發言3分鐘首先請羅美玲委員發言張志倫委員準備"},{"start":48337.516,"end":48364.047,"text":"謝謝主席各位委員先進大家晚安那最近呢我們常常聽到有人情緒性的說民進黨政府過去8年沒有在照顧新住民這種說法呢非常的不厚道也跟一般新住民的認知不同其實民進黨政府上任之後呢就積極修正國籍法和相關的法規舉例來說"},{"start":48366.028,"end":48384.656,"text":"我國在108年就將七國東南亞語列入中小學課綱這是全球首見的創舉我們也修了《大學法》增訂新住民就讀大學的外加名額那對於無國籍的兒少"},{"start":48385.336,"end":48409.156,"text":"可以由監護人或社福機構協助申請規劃提早取得國籍這是本席從上一屆開始就積極也在這個會期正式的三讀通過那疫情期間呢本席大力爭取政府辦理彈性處理疫情期間的境外面談超過4000對以上的配偶得以團聚"},{"start":48410.497,"end":48425.795,"text":"協助超過500對以上的跨國辦理團聚2020年上任之後本席也積極地推動減少依親面談的國家已經減少了6個國家除此之外本席也推動"},{"start":48426.917,"end":48443.297,"text":"為涉及孕婦醫療費用開放申請新住民發展基金的急難救助讓為涉及的孕婦納入產檢補助讓涉及前新住民比照國人同樣享有不孕症事管嬰兒補助甚至"},{"start":48445.64,"end":48460.695,"text":"我也協助本國的特殊兒童也就是黑戶寶寶比照國人可接種各種常規的疫苗對於經濟弱勢新住民比照國人補助就醫相關費用及健保欠費等等"},{"start":48462.016,"end":48484.501,"text":"這些措施都是本席任內的努力的成果本席絕不敢自稱是新住民之母可是我絕對是新住民的公僕那這些政策我國政府長年以來為了照顧新住民還有許多優於他國的制度例如新住民入籍一定的時間之後就可以參選民代"},{"start":48486.521,"end":48491.465,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案．請"},{"start":48507.695,"end":48521.545,"text":"新住民參加職業訓練是免費的新住民的子女我們也另外編列了教育獎金台灣22個縣市設置有新住民家庭服務中心服務全國"},{"start":48542.136,"end":48542.336,"text":"主席"},{"start":48558.055,"end":48584.656,"text":"各位委員各位全國的好朋友大家晚安新住民專法終於從第9屆第10屆到現在第11屆在歷經三屆國會的共同努力之下期待今天可以順利三讀通過政府也未來即將成立新住民的專責單位這是我國劃時代的里程碑本席深感榮幸共同參與了這個歷史時刻"},{"start":48586.698,"end":48614.046,"text":"我國新住民加上其子女現在已經突破百萬人其中新北市新住民人數正佔全台多數來自不同國度的新住民漂洋過海到台灣在這落地生根從第一代孕育到第二代第三代成為台灣多元文化的一份子本席以及國民黨團為保障新住民權益於今年"},{"start":48615.273,"end":48643.174,"text":"本11屆委員宣誓立法委員後及提出新住民基本法期盼提升藉由提案要求政府正式新住民問題及催出新住民的專責機構雖然今天可能沒有辦法成立新的新住民委員會但在本席跟各政黨委員經過不斷的溝通期待在今天有機會通過三讀"},{"start":48644.335,"end":48658.721,"text":"也在這邊感謝韓院長以及各黨團委員破過多次及密集的協商在7月2號、7月9號以及7月12號相信、今天期待可以取得共識"},{"start":48659.561,"end":48679.693,"text":"以及在今天7月15日通過《新住民基本法》由政府成立專責單位來維護新住民的權益措施包含通益服務提供新住民語言學習保障勞動權益等等非常重要的新住民的權利"},{"start":48680.433,"end":48695.519,"text":"本席認為無論我們所有的新住民來自哪裡只要心在中華民國熱愛中華民國共同在這片土地上我們就是一家人政府應該平等對待為新住民權益"},{"start":48696.76,"end":48722.799,"text":"醫療、就業等方面提供照護及服務並培養新二代以及新南向的語言人才為台灣注入邁向國際的新動力最後非常期待我們三黨共同有共識今天一起通過新住民基本法讓台灣成為亞洲全世界最歡迎新住民的國家感謝各位謝謝大家祝福大家謝謝"},{"start":48727.391,"end":48755.45,"text":"謝謝張志倫委員發言接下來請麥玉珍委員發言蘇巧慧委員請準備院長各位親愛的家人大家晚安"},{"start":48757.079,"end":48777.441,"text":"我所提出來的新住民基本法的立法精神是為了落實匯法保障多元文化的精神保障新住民各項基本權利應不受歧視、排擠、剝奪和限制並協助新住民融入我國社會"},{"start":48779.076,"end":48802.861,"text":"建立共榮的族群關係政府對於不同的國籍和地區之新住民除法律範圍外行政措施一律平等所以為什麼要提出來這樣子的法律因為我們要遵守台灣的律法是要從優從儀邁向名人當本"},{"start":48804.861,"end":48830.78,"text":"本顧邦林的目標發展因為在我們台灣很多就是像說那個保安、食安的問題很多大家就聽到河粉都沒有去查其他店就是往新住民開的店來去查每天都被查不到為什麼去年呢我們有一個新二代他皮膚比較黑所以呢"},{"start":48831.36,"end":48859.611,"text":"警察就當他是移工惡化不溫就打他了現場就毆打他還有我們現在就是因為政黨的關係就把他抹紅抹黑所以呢我們的大陸的姊妹還有他的小孩都是被鄰居來去霸凌所以我們要把就是這一條放進來雖然是說我們是從92年我們移民署就成立了"},{"start":48860.111,"end":48862.014,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":48879.475,"end":48903.493,"text":"以不要再像那麼多年92年到現在了我們希望立法有一個專責的單位讓我們新住民去發揮有哪裡錯大家都是希望我們永遠變成學生永遠就是要大家照顧但是我們已經在台灣20幾年了我們希望要有一個平台有一個地方讓我們去發揮"},{"start":48905.334,"end":48920.551,"text":"不要說我們有身份證了還要三年限制我們的身份所以我們沒有身份證的時候還要限制我們我們有身份證了還要限制我們還要說身份證後又不能再來被照顧"},{"start":48921.352,"end":48923.394,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":48948.019,"end":48975.59,"text":"謝謝麥玉珍委員發言接下來請蘇巧惠委員發言牛許廷委員請準備謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝各位委員請保持肅靜各位委員請尊重發言的委員"},{"start":48977.876,"end":48992.765,"text":"好 主席各位同仁修法其實就是把不同的意見帶到會議當中大家可以整合並且在這個過程當中也許你聽到了新的意見甚至修改自己原來的意見這都不是壞事"},{"start":48993.425,"end":49011.788,"text":"我必須說其實像在這一次的修法當中我自己本人就是從新住民的基本法改換成為了新住民權益保障法大家都是基於保障新住民的權益這種初衷共同來思考如何的立法是最好的"},{"start":49012.268,"end":49024.918,"text":"而且又可以符合法治的體力最好的形式來保障新住民權益可是很遺憾的在經過內政委員會兩次委員會討論以及7月2號、7月9號甚至7月12號這院長召集的協商這麼多次的會議之後我們本來已經由不同黨派大家經過討論雖然很困難但是有一個共識"},{"start":49038.229,"end":49048.995,"text":"包括名稱我們就是要用新住民權益保障法用這樣作用法的形式來讓新住民的權益可以更快更全面的達到保障但今天這一切都變化了"},{"start":49053.217,"end":49069.906,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":49078.951,"end":49080.591,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49097.176,"end":49115.093,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":49121.098,"end":49131.263,"text":"那麼我們往後這一部新住民的基本法未接將會架空陸委會和現行法律也就是台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例還有香港澳門關係條例將產生隔閡未來這個法律競合要怎麼處理"},{"start":49138.426,"end":49162.122,"text":"這就是過去我們在幾次閒商當中大家最認真的討論就是在這個部分而我們本已達成共識但很可惜今天一切被推翻我們必須留在這裡表決我要誠懇的說一部法律到底是基本法還是作用法不是用表決可以來決定的也不是用來"},{"start":49166.232,"end":49168.714,"text":"謝謝蘇巧慧委員發言接下來請劉許廷委員請發言"},{"start":49176.896,"end":49196.553,"text":"謝謝主席各位同仁這個本案經內政委員會審查兩次召委召集黨團協商最終在院長召集協商等程序完備的情況之下即便討論的過程中朝野雙方意見有所不同但大體上依然能夠盡量的互相的妥協讓步"},{"start":49197.654,"end":49216.497,"text":"我們在修正這部法律討論的過程中採取先易後難的策略針對法規較沒有爭議的宣示性的具體內容在委員會審查的時候均已通過完畢針對名稱、身份等相對複雜的條款則是在朝野協商的過程中盡力思考解決的方案"},{"start":49217.418,"end":49241.654,"text":"我們之所以主張應該用新住民基本法是因為避免法律頭重腳輕我們通過法規的具體內容大多屬於宣誓性、原則性較強的規範即便它橫跨了生活輔助、家庭照顧服務、就業權益保障、考試相關類科以及成立新住民發展基金、鼓勵學術研究等等範疇但大體上都是原則性的規範"},{"start":49242.455,"end":49260.223,"text":"如果今天我們以權益保障法之名來通過難免有頭重腳輕的質疑這一部分也是許多民團在我們討論的過程中有提出的意見本來呢我們認為如果在各黨和諧的情況之下大家理性溝通大可各退一步"},{"start":49260.723,"end":49283.926,"text":"我們本來在草野協商最後的時候決定還是可以以行政院希望通過的新住民權益保障法作為通過的版本但是要附加法條通過後執行一年試結果再行修正以這個接納民意保留法條的彈性本來這樣子的草野協商的結論大家都牽制畫押 遺憾民進黨贏了還要贏多了"},{"start":49285.407,"end":49304.012,"text":"這個民眾黨在協商的過程中已經主動撤回不堅持有爭議的相關法條在野黨在協商的過程中其實也多次讓步大家都秉持先求有再求好的精神來討論這個法案但最後很遺憾我們台灣民眾黨還是被扣上了紅帽子"},{"start":49304.952,"end":49332.041,"text":"以至於最終側牽翻桌讓今天大家要繼續加班血傷破裂雖然可惜但既然如此我們不妨回歸初心支持基本法的概念也在此呼籲我們的政府應儘速準備相關的配套政策與法令修正不管怎麼樣法條的內容還是要認真的執行大家共同努力一起給新住民的好朋友更多的保障感謝大家謝謝"},{"start":49335.793,"end":49348.258,"text":"謝謝牛許廷偉的花言報告委員會現在我們進行逐條討論請宣讀名稱民進黨黨團修正動議名稱新住民權益保障法台灣民眾黨黨團與國民黨黨團修正動議相同名稱新住民基本法宣讀完畢"},{"start":49355.367,"end":49365.672,"text":"委員會現在我們每位政黨都有一位發言的代表委員首先我們請陳玉珍委員發言麥玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":49377.202,"end":49392.383,"text":"主席各位同仁現在已經是晚上10點13分了我們還會在這裡繼續討論的原因的確是因為在這個草野協商的過程中本來已經大家都已經簽字了但是就是有的黨派有的個人"},{"start":49395.977,"end":49405.462,"text":"也許不是真心的想要支持這個法案所以可能想要趁機讓這個法案破局所以才會讓我們今天大家還在這裡一百多位委員寶貴的時間來繼續在這邊繼續做表決不過這樣也好台灣的新住民有一百多萬人"},{"start":49410.985,"end":49436.058,"text":"我以我們金門為例金門每15戶每15個人就有一個人是新住民新住民代表的不僅是從他們原生的國家到我們這邊來事實上新住民之子現在也是我們台灣很多各行各業的中流砥柱我剛剛聽到這個蘇曉慧委員說說不應該把它定作基本法他們原來定的條例叫做權益保障法"},{"start":49436.818,"end":49457.997,"text":"但事實上呢我們國家為了表示對某個領域某些族群的重視事實上訂了很多基本法包括呢教育基本法文化基本法客家基本法原住民基本法我想新住民的重要性不亞於這些族群不亞於這些領域所以呢今天我們在這裡"},{"start":49459.42,"end":49488.193,"text":"除了討論我負責的是除了討論這個原來的這個法案名稱以外我也希望民進黨的委員好好的思考中華民國是一個各個族群融合的這個國家各個族群從原來的原來我們有原來的原住民再將後來從大陸移居過來的人民那接著這幾十年來慢慢的我們有東南亞各地不管是從越南印尼馬來西亞來著住民他們的融入"},{"start":49489.253,"end":49513.906,"text":"豐富我們的文化也讓我們的下一代更加的成長事實上對以後我們國立的發展也是非常重要的一件事情我請民進黨委員我想這個執政不要心裡永遠帶著一種帶著一個有色的眼鏡來看我們的族群來看我們的人民我們都一起生長在這個國家生長一起在這裡成長我們大家的努力都希望這裡變得更好"},{"start":49515.327,"end":49515.807,"text":"請各位同仁支持 以上謝謝"},{"start":49545.224,"end":49570.079,"text":"謝謝陳怡珍委員接下來請麥玉珍委員發言羅美玲委員請準備院長好各位親愛的家人大家晚安"},{"start":49573.274,"end":49600.227,"text":"我們是立法每一個都說這個是最高的法所以呢為什麼我們要用基本法不僅是一套法律的紮構它也是一種承帶著精神性和政策方面的範圍就像說道路交通安全基本法交易基本法等這些法律不僅是明確了實證方向"},{"start":49603.328,"end":49604.57,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49613.291,"end":49623.317,"text":"能朝向一致的目標前進當我們今天討論新住民基本法我們不僅是在談論一部法律我們是在為新住民族群確立一個長期確定、支持與保障的系統這部法案的名稱應當反映其精神與重要性新住民法"},{"start":49641.688,"end":49642.369,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49666.101,"end":49667.142,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49677.338,"end":49703.241,"text":"要去實施因為我們來台灣已經20幾年的已經希望我們在台灣就會有成長有成長後也要希望我們為台灣貢獻所以我們希望有一個依據一個法讓各個部會來去以各個方向來去照顧我們在台灣我們也要守法也依據這樣子的基本法來去執行"},{"start":49703.741,"end":49708.603,"text":"所以希望大家支持我們《新住民基本法》以上謝謝"},{"start":49727.13,"end":49745.441,"text":"主席、各位同仁、大家晚安新著名專法到底是要用作用法還是基本法其實我們做了很多的討論兩者的差別到底在哪裡基本法是政策性的立法條文內容都是宣示性的效果"},{"start":49746.562,"end":49760.88,"text":"單獨用基本法無法產生實質法律的效力那象徵性的意義呢大於實質的規範如果要讓基本法產生實質的效果還需要訂定其他的關係法或者是執法"},{"start":49761.821,"end":49780.791,"text":"例如我們未來還必須訂定新住民身份法或者是新住民專責單位的組織法等等曠日廢時緩不應急無法落實本法立即保障新住民權益之精神尤其基本法本質是建立於"},{"start":49781.972,"end":49801.494,"text":"法體系的上位性立法如果我們這次的法律的名稱稱為新著名基本法未來將會凌駕於國籍法、入出國移民法、兩岸人民關係以及港澳關係條例等普通法跟特別法不得不慎"},{"start":49802.455,"end":49827.263,"text":"行政院及本黨委員所提出的新住民權益保障法的精神是立即完善移民政策照顧新住民加速適應社會照顧對於我國語言文化相對陌生的族群彌補社會結構所造成之實質不平等以移民共同的尋求為出發點納入包含了工作權、健康權"},{"start":49828.403,"end":49853.756,"text":"資訊禁用、語言無障礙及公共參與等權益因此以作用法為題那過去在審查跟協商的過程當中本席所提的多條的條文都獲得朝野委員的支持行政院也以作用法提出版本將過去政府對新住民族群所實施的政策入法產生政策實施之依據規範政府與新住民族群之權利"},{"start":49855.077,"end":49867.685,"text":"正是新政部會首長更替法制化能確保新住民各項權益福利政策不受到影響必須本法通過之後直接作用、立即生效"},{"start":49870.182,"end":49886.172,"text":"那新住民專法在審查跟協商的過程呢都是用作用法的法律架構來做討論跟通過此法要用新住民權益保障法才正確否則就是牛頭不對馬嘴而且上周上周五的時候呢"},{"start":49887.352,"end":49910.228,"text":"黨團協商是三黨的代表也達成協議也達成了這共識法例名稱就是新著名權益保障法所以我們不希望就是說三黨呢毫無三黨的協議在這個國民黨跟民眾黨的這個提出修正動議之後呢毫無誠信的摧毀上週五所達成的協商共識"},{"start":49914.794,"end":49922.062,"text":"謝謝羅美玲委員的發言報告委員會現在我們開始準備表決按鈴7分鐘請議事人員分發表決卡按鈴開始"},{"start":50026.544,"end":50038.616,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50063.985,"end":50066.971,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":50097.978,"end":50107.995,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":50134.25,"end":50151.329,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案："},{"start":50166.783,"end":50195.162,"text":"響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘"},{"start":50213.7,"end":50221.403,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50237.363,"end":50245.63,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50268.558,"end":50294.645,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":50314.982,"end":50324.286,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50348.915,"end":50350.376,"text":"報告委員會,現在我們進行處理"},{"start":50353.547,"end":50382.61,"text":"依序進行表決如果其中有任何疑案通過我們即不再處理其他案首先我們表決民進黨黨團版本以及行政院提案名稱現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":50455.796,"end":50469.074,"text":"抱怨會報告表決結果出席107位贊成50位反對57位贊成者少數民進黨黨團版本名稱不通過抱怨會因台灣民眾黨、國民黨團修正動議名稱相同一併處理"},{"start":50473.119,"end":50477.023,"text":"現在表決台灣民眾黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議名稱現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團修正動議請案贊成反對請案反對時間1分鐘現在開始"},{"start":50565.526,"end":50582.314,"text":"報告委員會報告表決結果出席107位贊成57位反對50位贊成者多數作以下宣告名稱照台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團修正動議名稱通過現在進行第一條請宣讀條文"},{"start":50583.7,"end":50596.851,"text":"民眾黨黨團修正動議第一條為落實憲法保障多元武漢精神保障新住民之基本權益協助其融入我國社會建立共存共融之族群關係特制定本法台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議第一條"},{"start":50599.113,"end":50617.035,"text":"為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民各項基本人權應不受歧視、排擠、剝奪或限制並協助其融入我國社會建立共存共榮族群關係特制定本法政府對於不同國籍或地區之新住民除法律另有規定外行政措施應一律平等"},{"start":50617.936,"end":50644.87,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第一條為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民各項基本人權應不受歧視、排擠、剝奪或限制並協助其融入我國社會建立共存共榮族群關係特制定本法國民黨黨團再修正動議第一條為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民基本權益協助其融入我國社會建立共存共榮之族群關係特制定本法宣讀完畢"},{"start":50646.567,"end":50656.567,"text":"以黨團共事由各黨團推派之代表發言首先請麥玉珍委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備"},{"start":50673.671,"end":50700.867,"text":"各位親愛的家人大家晚安我再一次再來說我們的新住民基本法的精神為什麼我們要把說民團要求說我們立法就是要消除歧視所以呢保障新住民基本人權應不受歧視排擠剝奪和限制"},{"start":50701.767,"end":50730.695,"text":"也是因為這樣子的法例我們要把這樣融入在我們的匯法裡面建立共榮族群關係政府對於不同的國籍或地區自新住民除了法律範圍外行政措施一律平等我再強調政府對於不同的國籍或地區自新住民除法"},{"start":50731.724,"end":50756.779,"text":"立範圍外行政措施一律平等這個就是我們要想說把這個放在裡面就是因為很多人收到就是歧視連我在這裡我幫大家來爭取這樣子的平等平權辨明但是呢很多"},{"start":50757.459,"end":50769.958,"text":"一輩子在選舉都說照顧新住民但是在這裡說我們新住民只是一個過程不是我們是族群"},{"start":50771.42,"end":50771.44,"text":"審議案"},{"start":50802.321,"end":50802.661,"text":"審議案審議案"},{"start":50823.643,"end":50831.91,"text":"來去搞分類讓新住民好好在台灣為生根為我們下一代來打拼希望大家多多支持謝謝"},{"start":50852.121,"end":50872.123,"text":"謝謝主席那關於這一個第一條剛好引用剛剛前面的委員也有提到剛剛前面有委員在講的時候一直在講族群融合的字眼但其實在內政委員會審查的過程當中就有提過其實現在不宜再使用這樣的一個字眼最好的說法應該是共存共融"},{"start":50873.183,"end":50892.479,"text":"所謂的不管是新住民還是這個我們現在的這一個本國的國民最終他都是台灣人所以對我們來講只要具有台灣人這樣的一個身份我們都應該要尊重這個在身份底下的多元的文化所以才會有共存共榮這樣的一個字眼"},{"start":50893.22,"end":50918.815,"text":"然而呢在這一次呢因為剛剛已經訂了這一個叫做基本法的這樣的一個名稱但大家要知道如果我們用基本法這個名稱那現在按照民眾黨的這一個版本說政府對於不同國籍或地區之新住民除法律另有規定外行政措施應一律平等這其實就跟名稱會有矛盾啦為什麼呢是因為基本法的位階很高"},{"start":50919.375,"end":50936.353,"text":"那如果你把除法律令有規定外把它排除的話那這個基本法就不知道在記什麼東西了所以呢我覺得那一個比較理想的一個狀況應該是我們不要這個第二項我們可以回歸現在不管是民進黨的修正動議還是國民黨的一個修正動議還是強調共存共榮這樣的一個關係"},{"start":50940.638,"end":50965.849,"text":"那接下來還有一個很重要的地方在於說行政措施疑慮平等剛剛有人說這會不會是扣紅帽子我要告訴大家做壞事不一定要有壞心我們今天並不是說有國安的疑慮什麼法律就不要定我們沒有講過這樣的話我們要提醒的是當你定每一個新的法律的時候哪一個條款有可能會形成國安的漏洞"},{"start":50966.269,"end":50986.305,"text":"而這個漏洞我們要注意也因此就是委員會中心主義的精神我們在委員會去討論這樣的一個狀況要怎麼把這個漏洞彌補起來這才是一種正確的做法嘛所以當我們今天發現第二款這個事情有問題的時候其實我在協商之前我就已經發文章說這個有問題了然後後來我們在會議當中也說這個有問題"},{"start":50991.149,"end":51017.119,"text":"那最後我們的又再度在我們的社群媒體跟大家介紹中間發生什麼事情為什麼這可以構成撤遷為什麼這可以構成翻桌的事由我們只是在陳述一個有漏洞的事實而已啊那既然有漏洞的事實大家予以填補這不是好事嗎怎麼會變成說在被扣紅帽子之後然後說現在要翻桌不認人導致我們現在要在這邊重新討論這個法案"},{"start":51018.439,"end":51035.807,"text":"所以我再次還是要強調就是我們對於這樣的一個漏洞的一個警覺性我們要注意那既然呢如果我們今天在其他的版本沒有這個第二款的話第二項的話我們回歸第一項強調新住民然後之後成為我國國民的共存共榮文化謝謝沈博洋委員的發言也請羅志強委員請發言"},{"start":51057.779,"end":51078.056,"text":"不管來自何方先來後到我們都是台灣人今天很高興也很欣慰雖然大家對於名稱條文還有一些歧義但是這些都無妨我們今天這一步早就該為新住民來訂定的法律通過"},{"start":51079.136,"end":51105.885,"text":"事實上新住民基本法在2017年、2022年都曾經送到內政委員會很可惜並沒有交出立法的成績單但今天在我們新的國會的第一個會期那在很多委員們的努力之下我們終於要交出為新住民交出一個我們該定的法律就是新住民的基本法"},{"start":51107.581,"end":51121.2,"text":"這個法律的名稱我看到大家有一些不同的意見討論可是基本上就我自己的認為就是說新住民權益保障法其實是比新住民基本法這個名稱要狹隘"},{"start":51122.026,"end":51145.808,"text":"為什麼可以從這個我們的第一條規範的元素就可以看到基本上新住民基本法我覺得是相對來講是比較合適的一個名稱因為在我們的新住民基本法的第一條裡面大家所擬的條文雖然版本有差別大概包含兩個元素第一個就是保障新住民的基本權益"},{"start":51146.468,"end":51174.645,"text":"第二是建立共存共榮的族群關係所以換言之其實新住民基本法它想要涵蓋的範圍乃至於它想要把這個法律定的位階都是高於新住民權益保障法這是第一個就有點像原住民基本法也是一樣它也是包含了保障原住民基本權利來建立共存共榮的族群關係在第一條裡面這樣的規範"},{"start":51175.585,"end":51200.216,"text":"所以因此他也以基本法來命名那第二個角度是說其實當我們在思考法律的時候可能不要從所謂的執政的本位去想說我覺得我要用什麼法律的名稱你要從民眾的本位來去看請問大家新住民朋友會希望這個法律名稱叫新住民權益保障法還是新住民基本法"},{"start":51200.916,"end":51221.823,"text":"就像原住民的朋友會希望我們的法律叫做原住民權益保障法還是叫做原住民基本法所以我們當我們立法的時候不要陷入一個立法者的傲慢框架應該要從所謂的人民的角度去思考最後我想要講一個我個人覺得比較稍微今天有點遺憾的地方"},{"start":51222.463,"end":51241.892,"text":"我剛剛聽到這個民進黨立委對著麥玉珍委員說你要感謝台灣對你的栽培光這句話就是一個上對下的一種所謂的語氣麥委員當然會感謝台灣但我們要對新住民要講的是我們感謝新住民為台灣"},{"start":51263.083,"end":51268.106,"text":"好 報告委員會現在我們表決民進黨黨團版本條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對請按反對現在開始"},{"start":51356.069,"end":51375.395,"text":"本院會現在報告表決結果出席107位贊成50位反對57位贊成者少數民進黨黨團不通過版本不通過現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間1分鐘現在開始"},{"start":51459.941,"end":51479.661,"text":"報告表決結果出席委員100位贊成100位所以贊成者多數最後以下宣告第一條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過報告現在進行第二條請宣讀三個黨團共同修正動議條文"},{"start":51481.716,"end":51497.839,"text":"三黨共提修正動議第2條本法所稱新住民只符合下列情形之一者一、僅許可在台灣地區居留、依清居留、長期居留或永久居留之外國人無國籍人民、大陸地區人民、香港或澳門居民"},{"start":51498.3,"end":51527.154,"text":"其配偶為居住台灣地區設有戶籍國民二、依入出國籍移民法第23條第一項第一款至第七款第九款、第十款、第二項或第三項經許可在台灣地區居留或依該法第25條經許可永久居留或從事外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第四條、第四款、第四目、第五目、第八條、第十條之專業工作或依該法第15條第一項取得工作許可"},{"start":51527.674,"end":51546.445,"text":"或經許可在台灣地區居留或永久居留三、依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條第4項規定經專案許可在台灣地區長期居留或依香港澳門關係條例經許可在台灣地區居留且其居留事由"},{"start":51547.145,"end":51562.34,"text":"於符合法定條件後依法得申請在台灣地區定居四、第一款或第二款規定之外國人或無國籍人民經規劃取得我國國籍以台灣地區無戶籍國民身份在台灣地區居留"},{"start":51563.061,"end":51589.879,"text":"五、第一款或第三款規定之大陸地區人民香港或澳門居民前款規定之台灣地區無戶及國民或依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第16條第二項規定經許可在台灣地區定居前項第一款及第二款經許可居留之外國人以未兼具我國國籍者為限文法保障對象即於新住民子女宣讀完畢"},{"start":51590.816,"end":51608.265,"text":"法院會第二條就三黨團共同修正動議條文通過現在進行審查會保留第三條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納本條就不予採納法院會現在進行第三條請宣讀條文"},{"start":51610.646,"end":51622.119,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第3條本法之主管機關為內政部本法鎖定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理"},{"start":51623.988,"end":51650.077,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議第三條本法所稱主管機關在中央為本法所設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府直轄市與縣市政府應設新住民之單一服務窗口提供新住民居住、醫療、就學、就業、輔助、司法、經濟、文化、族群融合等多元服務"},{"start":51651.737,"end":51678.22,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第3條本法所稱主管機關在中央為本法所設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府國民黨黨團在修正動議第3條本法主管機關為內政部本法所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理宣讀完畢"},{"start":51680.097,"end":51687.664,"text":"現在我們進行各黨團的發言首先請黃婕委員發言請徐巧欣委員準備"},{"start":51704.841,"end":51722.552,"text":"好在座各位同事大家晚安大家辛苦了剛剛其實麥玉珍委員有提到說台灣都沒有照顧到新住民我必須要在這邊說其實不管是誰來到台灣也都成為了台灣人所以也才會有麥玉珍委員像羅美玲委員"},{"start":51723.352,"end":51746.878,"text":"這些新住民也能夠在台灣成為立法委員因為台灣給予充分的參政權所以我也不希望麥委員這樣子講這種話在這邊撕裂彼此移民署有統計跟我們台灣的新住民包括外籍、中國籍或是已經規劃持有滋留症的人數現在已經超過了59萬人成長的速度非常快"},{"start":51747.538,"end":51776.75,"text":"新住民是我們大家的夥伴在座所有人都是不分朝野大家全力來推動增進新住民的權益的所以真的不需要去劃分誰的努力比較少誰的努力比較多那甚至是在原本的黨團協商其實跟院版一樣最後我們都已經有構思了那我不明白的是為什麼在今天晚上短短的兩個小時之內民眾黨又提出了新的版本要把內政部"},{"start":51777.09,"end":51803.035,"text":"改為主管機關改為署甚至是一個三級機關而國民黨卻也是一改再改一遍再遍原本用了委員會到了黨團協商大家共同有共識說好由內政部來主責最後現在中間又改了要成立新住民委員會直到剛剛又成立了又改為新的版本說要跟院版一樣"},{"start":51803.695,"end":51811.261,"text":"那既然跟原版一樣,我也不明白為什麼我們要在這裡表決一個同樣內容的文字呢?"},{"start":51812.563,"end":51840.431,"text":"那其實這個癥結點既然已經到了這裡我們都有構思是由內政部當時說要由內政部來成立主管機關成立組織機關那現在跟我們最大差異的民眾黨的版本裡面要撕毀協議要成立的是一個三級機關我不明白的是為什麼要舍近求遠為什麼要再用這個三級機關之後還必須要多修基準法必須要多修組織法"},{"start":51842.172,"end":51864.33,"text":"讓這個事情變得曠日廢時沒有辦法盡早的來協助新住民的權益的融入呢那更離譜的是這個三級機關其實遠比我們大家的共識還要降格為什麼要提一個比遠比原本的版本還差的一個主管機關呢最後我要強調草案其實第一條就開宗明義說到"},{"start":51864.93,"end":51884.017,"text":"保障新住民的基本權益協助融入我國的社會建立共存共榮的族群關係這個是我們朝野黨團都要努力來推動的新住民是我們的家人台灣是我們的家大家一起相互扶持互相理解我們才能找到最大的共識希望大家共同來支持謝謝謝謝黃婕委員的發言接下來請許巧欣委員發言蔓玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":51900.595,"end":51921.567,"text":"各位大家好首先我還沉浸在剛才的這個驚人的歷史畫面當中彷彿在議場裡面看到一陣極光歷史畫面我們在這裡也許一個願希望接下來也可以持續的出現大家對於新住民的權益共同支持不分黨派"},{"start":51922.367,"end":51934.55,"text":"我們有這樣子的一個祈願可是我們要問的事情是事實真的是如此嗎我們看到的儀表板上面好像所有的人都能支持同樣的法案可是我們要問問你們的心有一樣嗎今天為什麼我們要在這裡表決這麼久當時都已經通過協商了都已經拍了帥帥美美的照片了為什麼協商還是破局了"},{"start":51946.892,"end":51970.023,"text":"就是因為有立委在結束之後去抹紅我們的新住民不是嗎我想要問的是我們在新住民的這個基本法裡面列了這麼多說我們要保障新住民的權益剛才上一位黃婕委員在這個台子上她還說這些新住民也能如何如何"},{"start":51971.063,"end":51990.377,"text":"當你說出這些新住民也能如何的時候 抱歉他們不是也不也能 他們本來就能 他們是我們的一家人他們是中華民國的國民 他們本就應該享有與我們相同的待遇不是這些新住民 他們就是新住民所以我們要再一次強調"},{"start":51991.698,"end":52018.343,"text":"不要抹紅別人很難嗎我們要再次強調這些新住民他們有的是陸配他們有的是外配我們現在統一稱呼他們新住民就是對於他們最大的一個尊重而這部法律躺了好多年現在才終於要通過我來自的選區也有非常多的新住民朋友那他們也一直都在期待有一部新住民的基本法"},{"start":52018.783,"end":52044.396,"text":"能夠讓他們跟台灣的連結感受到更深能夠讓他們的權益能夠更被保障能夠讓他們不要再被這塊土地上面有一些的惡意去抹紅去分化去認為他們不是跟我們彼此切出了一條紅線不是的我在這裡要再一次的告訴我們全台灣的同胞我們中華民國的國民"},{"start":52045.657,"end":52068.306,"text":"包含我們今天所列的新住民基本法的這些所有的新住民朋友不管是你或是你的後代我們都是台灣人現在在台灣超過100萬的新住民以及其子女大家要知道很多的新住民的子女在台灣發展得非常好因為他們有不同的語言"},{"start":52069.286,"end":52081.433,"text":"他們會講國語他們也會講自己的母語所以他們到世界各國的發展都是讓台灣餘有榮焉讓台灣之子成為台灣之光謝謝大家"},{"start":52105.345,"end":52109.395,"text":"謝謝院長各位親愛的家人大家晚安"},{"start":52113.356,"end":52139.211,"text":"跟大家對不起因為我要爭取的公平平等排除歧視大家不認同因為大家覺得這個跟我們的大陸有關抹紅抹黑大家詳細去看我中文沒有像大家那麼懂但是我還是看得懂裡面沒有任何"},{"start":52140.151,"end":52140.511,"text":"新住民的定義身份"},{"start":52168.238,"end":52182.924,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本"},{"start":52195.88,"end":52208.285,"text":"華人在海外再回來台灣又怕他們變新住民所以我們在台灣新住民就怕我們永久變新住民所以海外的人回台灣要票的時候你們趕快飛回來投給我"},{"start":52213.508,"end":52235.346,"text":"但是選完就說你們不是我的人民你們的小孩回來變成要用我的預算所以你們不是你們不能在這邊讓我照顧就會增加我行政院的預算所以天啊我們台灣是要照顧的是"},{"start":52236.596,"end":52256.387,"text":"想要照顧的人想要撒錢的地方想要花錢的地方是跟你沒有關但是呢需要票的時候跟你有關我要照顧你但是你回來跟我沒有關所以我真的我不知道是說我們的民進黨我從"},{"start":52258.368,"end":52258.608,"text":"本院委員"},{"start":52286.629,"end":52304.729,"text":"謝謝麥玉珍委員發言報告委員會現在我們表決民進黨黨團的版本條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對按反對記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":52376.099,"end":52392.067,"text":"報告委員會現在報告表決結果出席107位贊成50位反對57位贊成則少數民進黨黨團版本條文不通過報告委員會現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成國民黨黨團再修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":52474.844,"end":52489.082,"text":"法院會初席100位贊成100位贊成者多數作以下宣告第三條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過法院會現在進行第四條請宣讀條文"},{"start":52491.448,"end":52519.963,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第4條政府應設專責單位或至專人推動辦理新住民相關事宜台灣民眾黨黨團與國民黨黨團修正動議相同第4條內政部應設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關以統籌規劃研究諮詢協調推動促進新住民就學就業賠利關懷協助及多元服務之相關事宜宣讀完畢"},{"start":52521.909,"end":52530.79,"text":"委員會一黨團共事由各黨團推派代表發言首先請王洪威委員發言麥玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":52544.124,"end":52562.841,"text":"好主席還有各位同事大家非常辛苦剛才我們看到兩次的表決結果那很多人都在拍照因為呢那非常特別的我們也看到民進黨的同仁也兩次的來贊成國民黨的再修正動議"},{"start":52564.022,"end":52589.144,"text":"所以也就是在我們對於很多公共政策的一個討論裡面其實我們可以用一個真的更融合而且更寬容的態度但是我們可以看到為什麼我們現在要更多花時間來做討論跟做表決也確實在我們的整個的修法過程裡面"},{"start":52590.29,"end":52600.23,"text":"我們確實在政黨之間是不是在做一些鬥爭或者世上在抹黑或抹紅"},{"start":52601.556,"end":52628.491,"text":"剛才我有注意到比如說沈伯洋委員講說如果我們在整個的條文裡面發生了有疏漏我們做提醒如果是這樣的態度當然沒有問題可是我必須要提出來在過程裡面明明已經達成協商而且如同剛才所說的大家都高高興興地在拍照之後"},{"start":52629.351,"end":52655.907,"text":"竟然一出門之後我們就會發現我們一些委員在他的臉書裡面用非常極具攻擊性的言語來羞辱甚至是上抹黑跟抹紅我們的同事我想請問一下如果今天如果幹事長縣市批裡面還會提到說讓我心裡發毛的字眼"},{"start":52657.107,"end":52674.055,"text":"請問一下這是我們之間本來已經達成協議的一個共識之後踏出這個門之後然後對雖然是不同政黨的同仁做這樣的一個攻擊請問一下這是善意的嗎"},{"start":52675.575,"end":52703.574,"text":"請問一下這是真的我們希望為了新住民大家共榮大家融合大家能夠尊重我們新住民基本權益我們應該有的一個態度嗎所以在這裡我們要特別希望的是在我們的整個的態度中我們認為對於新住民我們應該要予以尊重不是一個"},{"start":52705.423,"end":52729.819,"text":"給予我們也不是施捨這是在台灣將近60萬的新住民如果加上第二代的話是將近百萬的新住民他們對於台灣的經濟對於台灣的家庭照顧對於台灣的勞動市場他們過去幾十年來他們的貢獻其實我們應該心存感激"},{"start":52747.512,"end":52751.195,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員的發言接下來請麥玉珍委員發言"},{"start":52769.943,"end":52777.059,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝大家我們的立法院的朋友還有謝謝我們線上的朋友"},{"start":52778.234,"end":52798.646,"text":"新住民基本法新住民專責單位但是呢我現在看的我們第4條新住民的專人單位只有專人專人不到是一個人還是兩個人但是呢我們國民黨民進黨都是希望設一個專責叫專人"},{"start":52801.327,"end":52829.361,"text":"一個單位所以我不知道說為什麼所以我要的就是我們希望有一個新住民委員會因為呢我們希望有一個新住民委員會讓新住民在裡面服務大家因為我們要栽培人才要給予機會才能有一個平台讓大家發揮不是我們要每年編列預算去照顧新住民只是照顧"},{"start":52830.041,"end":52830.921,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":52851.95,"end":52872.257,"text":"事實上是叫行政命令沒辦法去照顧全部的新住民所以呢我為什麼這一次我要覺得說好我們不要有一個新住民委員會但是是不是有一個新住民發展署因為我們新住民60萬人他是偏部"},{"start":52872.817,"end":52892.475,"text":"全國我們要落實來去照顧我們要栽培就是讓他們在地服務在地為大家來照顧這個才是我們要栽培人才給予機會才讓新住民發揮不是一輩子都停留在我要照顧你"},{"start":52893.255,"end":52916.305,"text":"不是讓我們來去照顧其他人因為我們學習就是要照顧所以我也很感謝政府感謝我們民眾黨給我這個機會代表新住民來發聲但是呢我要講的民進黨執政那麼多年也是只有一個我們羅美玲委員當立委其他"},{"start":52917.225,"end":52931.795,"text":"有成立新住民委員會永遠只是穿著國服亮個相照個片就是叫做照片就是每一個人在那邊我擁抱新住民都是假的全部都是假的"},{"start":52932.475,"end":52954.666,"text":"你來我照顧你就是穿著狗服選舉的時候來就是一堆人來做說我很照顧新住民新住民來支持我到最後我要一個專責讓他來去服務大家讓大家來去發揮讓新住民為台灣來貢獻來服務這個就是我們想要的"},{"start":52959.301,"end":52981.793,"text":"謝謝接下來請張宏祿委員請發言院長各位同仁"},{"start":52982.776,"end":53012.099,"text":"我想我們大家在台灣的大街小巷都有吃過越南河粉都有吃過很多泰式餐廳我必須要說我們照顧新住民是我們應該的但不是只有照顧新住民跟我們的原住民跟我們的客家人是不一樣的我們的原住民世世代代他都是有原住民的身份"},{"start":53013.175,"end":53040.273,"text":"還有他自己的文化有他自己的語言但新住民我還是必須要說他經過一段時間之後就會成為中華民國的國民當他成為中華民國國民的時候我們要給他的不只是照顧我們要讓他更發展更茁壯成為台灣走向國際的新動力"},{"start":53041.338,"end":53060.166,"text":"這才是我們真正對新住民好啊而不是在這邊說對新住民要照顧要照顧我認為不是單純的照顧我必須要再說新住民跟原住民客家人是不一樣的概念"},{"start":53062.233,"end":53086.013,"text":"我們必須要在台灣在這個過程當中協助我們的新住民認同台灣讓他知道他以後就是中華民國的國民他只要認同台灣我相信他就會做很多很多我們想要幫助他的事情"},{"start":53086.96,"end":53115.819,"text":"而不是把它永遠灌在一個新住民的一個框框裡面所以在這第4條的修法裡面我真的要拜託大家大家支持民進黨的版本支持行政院的版本因為我看到其他政黨他所說的要設新住民族委員會中央三級機關各位這個不是真正要做事這個是在騙"},{"start":53117.205,"end":53137.793,"text":"為什麼如果以中央行政機關組織基準法裡面我們70個機關已滿了你要等到什麼時候才能夠真正的成立我們馬上成立一個師我們可以10倍20倍的人力可以馬上來幫新住民做事情但我們如果"},{"start":53139.209,"end":53163.022,"text":"沒有造行政院版本今天這樣子通過我們通過這個法案是空的你在等修法要等多久各位我必須在這邊再說我們要照顧新住民不是嘴巴講我們要付諸行動最好最快的行動就是能夠馬上照顧他們所以希望大家支持民進黨的版本"},{"start":53165.473,"end":53172.656,"text":"謝謝張宏祿委員的發言報言會現在我們表決民進黨黨團版本條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53255.748,"end":53271.553,"text":"法院會報告表決結果出席106位贊成50位反對56位贊成者少數民進黨黨團版本條文不通過法院會現有現在表決台灣民眾黨團國民黨團修正動議條文現有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團國民黨團修正動議請函贊成反對請函反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53357.23,"end":53368.954,"text":"報告表決結果出席106位贊成57位反對49位贊成者多數我們做以下宣告第4條照台灣民眾黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議條文通過報告委員會現在進行第5條請宣讀條文"},{"start":53377.403,"end":53399.731,"text":"明星黨黨團修正動議第5條行政院為研議、協調及推動本法相關事務應定及召開新住民事務協調會報台灣民眾黨黨團與國民黨黨團修正動議相同第5條檢調機關設立前行政院為審議、協調本法相關事務涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者必要時得召開跨部會首長會議會同各目的事業主管機關辦理之宣讀完畢"},{"start":53406.389,"end":53426.145,"text":"委員會現在宣讀完畢我們黨團共事各黨團代表發言麥玉珍委員要不要發言放棄好麥玉珍委員放棄接下來第二號林柱英委員要不要發言要發言請時間三分鐘請尤浩委員準備尤浩委員"},{"start":53438.347,"end":53464.206,"text":"謝謝主席各位大院同仁現在時間來到晚上23點20分我想大家都辛苦了但是大家一直堅守在這裡其實當然就是希望表達對於新住民朋友的關心跟支持我想在第5條這個部分跟第4條當然是相連結的不過我想要再清楚的再說明一次那就是在民眾黨的版本的第4條跟第5條當中提到的內政部要偵測新住民專責的三級機關"},{"start":53466.528,"end":53472.891,"text":"這樣的一個三級機關在中央行政組織法當中的第33條就規定了三級機關現在滿邊最多就是70個單位違憲而目前就是處於滿邊的狀態如果說要設立這樣的一個三級機關這樣的一個事務機關的話就意味著會排擠到其他機關"},{"start":53486.798,"end":53508.791,"text":"而且必須在進行組織的修正那在這樣修正情況底下即使今天法案按照民眾黨的版本來通過之後它依舊無法來即時運作我就問大家如果是這樣為什麼不支持民進黨的版本我們就是透過中央部會定期的來召開所謂的專責匯報"},{"start":53510.652,"end":53536.502,"text":"法案通過一旦公布就可以來實施今天大院的大家如此辛苦的在這裡就是要共同的表達一個說法那就是新住民的朋友來到中華民國之後他們在融入我們的生活瞭解台灣的環境之後他是會成為中華民國的國民所以說在中華民國他享有跟國民一樣的保障"},{"start":53537.322,"end":53556.733,"text":"今天這一部法令跟法規應該是協助那些來到台灣出來乍到還不是完全融入台灣社會的過程當中他所面臨的方方面面的權益保障而不是把他拉高成為一個基本法因為這樣子感覺上好像"},{"start":53557.633,"end":53585.931,"text":"這些新住民朋友永遠都不是我們的家人但是剛剛我們看到的不論是民眾黨的委員或是國民黨的委員都講得非常好啊就是新住民的朋友就是我們的家人新住民朋友就是中華民國的國民如果是這樣這一部法令跟法規要協助的應該是那些出來炸到還沒有辦法跟我們共存共榮的新住民朋友"},{"start":53586.531,"end":53606.605,"text":"如果說今天他在獲得了中華民國的身份之後他獲得的是我們憲法的保障是扎扎實實的保障如果是這樣的話那麼就應該回歸到我們現有的法規當中而不是像現在要去再設一個所謂的專責的三級機構我知道時間晚了"},{"start":53610.907,"end":53625.954,"text":"剛剛議事人員來詢問我要不要發言因為我在這裡要代表民進黨代表所有的同仁我們從過去到現在到未來都是支持新住民好 謝謝謝謝林淑英委員接下來請登記第3號油耗委員請發言"},{"start":53634.292,"end":53657.205,"text":"謝謝謝謝院長、議事人員還有在座所有的好朋友那在剛才延續著我們國民黨團及民眾黨團的發言在第五條前條機關設立前行政院委審議協調本法相關事務涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者必要時得召開跨部會首長會議會同各的目的事業主管機關辦理之"},{"start":53658.73,"end":53679.98,"text":"本席在這邊還是要重申國民黨以及民眾黨一直對於新住民的權益還包括新住民的基本法的一個重視與推動相信在2017年10月林立禪立委他起草這部法案到現在歷經了7、8年時間看到了民進黨完全的執政但是新住民基本法依舊沒有通過"},{"start":53680.9,"end":53697.091,"text":"我們也希望說藉由在今天能夠通過還能夠讓大家的表決通過我們也要看到當初大家表決到現在也是因為這麼重要的新住民法案還被標上了抹紅的標籤向各位反思一下"},{"start":53697.851,"end":53721.472,"text":"在支持新住民、捍衛新住民權益、為他們爭取權益的時候不要小和尚念經、有口無心大家在招酸苦,剛才很多新住民都跟他說會支持會盡量跟新住民的權益來斟酌那現在來講在新住民的基本法大家又需要共同一心來支持那我相信今天的基本法它能夠通過表決之後"},{"start":53721.912,"end":53734.538,"text":"未來在我們看待這個機關還能夠有更高的位階來去主責我們看到那麼多跌床降屋的機關機構我們更是要思考如何讓新住民有專責的單位專責的權責來照顧新住民"},{"start":53737.819,"end":53763.166,"text":"未來希望我們中華民國的國民在新住民在裡面的時候我們看他們都一樣他們看我們都一樣權益都一樣未來的發展都一樣那才是真正的為新住民在打拼新住民爭取權益不應該如此辛苦所以本席在這裡還是要代表國民黨以及民眾黨民眾黨團第5條的部分我們一起為新住民加油"},{"start":53765.515,"end":53782.881,"text":"謝謝游浩委員的發言謝謝報告委員會現有蔡易瑜委員聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報告委員會現在表決民進黨黨團修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53866.24,"end":53879.608,"text":"報告委員會現在報告表決結果出席105位贊成49位反對56位贊成者少數民黨黨團修正動議條文不通過報告委員會現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨團修正動議條文現有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團國民黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間1分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53967.591,"end":53981.639,"text":"報告表決結果出席106位贊成56位反對50位贊成者多數做以下宣告第5條照台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團修正動議條文通過報告委員陳穎委員聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄"},{"start":53994.875,"end":54007.846,"text":"報告委員會現在進行吳思瑤委員提案第6條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納本條就不予採納報告委員會現在進行第6條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54011.431,"end":54033.07,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第6條政府應每年針對我國新住民總體支持事項檢討並改進其內容應包括下列事項一、我國新住民支持政策之基本方向二、我國新住民支持政策於各領域中之具體措施三、相關具體措施之成效分析四、新住民支持經費之來源及分配五、其他新住民支持相關事項"},{"start":54034.611,"end":54042.919,"text":"原理定定或檢討新住民支持具體措施時﹐得邀集相關學者、專家及民間團體﹐代表列席提供意見宣讀完畢"},{"start":54058.34,"end":54082.587,"text":"謝謝謝謝謝謝大家主席要宣告報告委員會第6條我們就行政院提案條文通過現在進行第7條請宣讀條文謝謝民進黨黨團修正動議第7條為研擬、訂定或檢討相關支持事項政府應每5年進行調查擬定計畫並將調查結果公開於網站宣讀完畢報告委員會第7條就照行政院提案條文通過"},{"start":54084.218,"end":54089.533,"text":"現在我們進行第8條請宣讀三個黨團共同修正動議條文"},{"start":54091.201,"end":54116.446,"text":"三黨共提修政動議第8條為推動新住民與其子女及家庭照顧輔導服務人力資源培訓及發展無障礙語言環境建構多元文化社會有效整合政府及民間資源特設置新住民發展基金新住民發展基金管理會之委員組成納入具新住民或新住民子女身份之代表新住民發展基金收支保管及運用辦法由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":54117.426,"end":54135.658,"text":"好 報告委員會第8條就照三個黨團共同修正動議條文通過報告委員會蘇巧惠委員等提案第10條王美惠等提案第9條羅美玲等提案第6條邱振軍等提案第4條民黨黨團修正動議我們不予採納報告委員會現在進行第9條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54144.332,"end":54159.2,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第9條政府應與國家考試設立新住民事務相關類科以因應新住民公務之需求宣讀完畢報告委員會第9條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第10條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54161.618,"end":54182.452,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第10條政府應辦理生活適應輔導、醫療生育保健、就業權益保障提升教育文化、協助子女教養、人身安全保護、健全法令制度及落實觀念宣導等相關措施以維護新住民及其子女在台之權益前項服務措施政府應致力提供多語言服務宣讀完畢"},{"start":54183.473,"end":54188.957,"text":"第四條條文照行政院提案條文通過委員會現在進行審查會通過第12條民進黨團修正動議不予採納就不予採納現在進行第11條請宣讀三個黨團共同修正動議條文"},{"start":54201.485,"end":54219.759,"text":"三黨共提修正動議第11條直轄市縣市政府應設新住民家庭服務中心對於在台之新住民家庭提供家庭婚姻及育兒等諮詢服務以及心理與法律諮詢之資源轉介對於新住民家庭之子女政府應提供輔導措施以協助其適應生活宣讀完畢"},{"start":54220.459,"end":54239.7,"text":"第11條就照三個黨團共同修正動議條文通過法院會現在進行第12條請宣讀條文民進黨黨團修正動議第12條政府應規劃結合相關資源及學校積極提供新住民學習五國語言及文字支援以有效"},{"start":54240.521,"end":54256.27,"text":"消除語言隔閡政府應提供獎勵措施結合各級學校家庭與社區推動新住民語言及我國語言學習並提供新住民子女教育協助宣讀完畢第12條照行政院提案條文通過報告委員會現在進行第13條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54259.366,"end":54279.737,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第13條政府應獎勵或輔助新住民學術研究鼓勵大專院校院設立新住民學術相關院系所學位學成培育新住民專業人才宣讀完畢第13條照行政院提案條文通過現在請進行第14條宣讀條文"},{"start":54283.459,"end":54303.004,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第14條政府應鼓勵相關機關、各團體辦理新住民就業服務提供就業諮詢、就業媒合及輔導取得技術事證促進其就業宣讀完畢第14條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第15條宣讀條文"},{"start":54304.994,"end":54327.179,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第15條政府應提供新住民關懷協助並對弱勢新住民給予輔助宣讀完畢第15條照行政院提案條文通過報院會現在進行吳思瑤委員等提案第17條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納我們就不予採納現在進行第16條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54330.68,"end":54353.308,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第16條政府機關構處理新住民事務因使新住民得以其語言陳述意見必要時應提供該語言之通譯服務政府應於公共領域提供新住民語言諮詢等服務及其他落實新住民語言友善環境之措施助有績效者得予獎勵宣讀完畢"},{"start":54353.868,"end":54381.684,"text":"第16條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第17條請宣讀條文民進黨黨團修正動議第17條政府應鼓勵各媒體事業自播新著名語言文化之廣播、電視節目或影音並得予獎勵或補助以保障新著名媒體禁用權宣讀完畢第17條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第18條"},{"start":54384.025,"end":54400.979,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第18條政府應鼓勵新住民投入公共參與、增進多元文化交流宣讀完畢第18條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行吳思瑤委員等提案第21條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納就不予採納現在進行第19條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54409.326,"end":54426.029,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第19條本法施行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢第19條照行政院提案條文通過報告院會全案經過二讀現有三個黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文好"},{"start":54435.919,"end":54449.266,"text":"名稱新住民基本法第一條為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民基本權益協助其融入我國社會建立共存共融之族群關係特制定本法"},{"start":54451.392,"end":54474.5,"text":"本法所稱新住民只符合下列情形之一者一、居許可在台灣地區居留一、親居留、長期居留或永久居留之外國人五、國籍人民、大陸地區人民、香港或澳門居民其配偶為居住台灣地區設有戶籍國民二、一、入出國籍移民法第二、三條第一項、第一款至第七款、第九款、第十款、第二項或第三項"},{"start":54475.28,"end":54496.418,"text":"經許可在台灣地區居留或依該法第25條經許可永久居留或從事外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第4目、第5目、第8條、第10條之專業工作或依該法第15條第一項取得工作許可並經許可在台灣地區居留或永久居留一、一台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例"},{"start":54497.819,"end":54524.298,"text":"第17條第4項規定經專案許可在台灣地區長期居留或依香港澳門關係條例經許可在台灣地區居留且其居留事由與符合法定條件後依法得申請在台灣地區定居第1款或第2款規定是外國人或無國籍人民經規劃取得我國國籍以台灣地區無戶籍國民身份在台灣地區居留"},{"start":54524.818,"end":54549.04,"text":"五、第一款或第三款規定之大陸地區人民、香港或澳門居民前款規定之台灣地區無戶及國民或依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第16條第二項規定經許可在台灣地區定居前項第一款及第二款經許可居留之外國人以未兼具我國國籍者為限無法保障對象及於新住民子女"},{"start":54552.012,"end":54574.685,"text":"本法主管機關為內政部本法所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理內政部應設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關以統籌規劃、研究、諮詢、協調、推動、促進新住民就學、就業、培力、關懷協助及多元服務之相關事宜"},{"start":54575.906,"end":54588.417,"text":"第5條前條機關設立前,行政院為審議、協調本法相關事務、涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者必要時得召開跨部會首長會議,會同各目的事業主管機關辦理之"},{"start":54592.537,"end":54614.223,"text":"第6條政府應每年針對我國新住民總體支持事項檢討並改進其內容應包括下列事項一、我國新住民支持政策之基本方向二、我國新住民支持政策於各領域中之具體措施三、相關具體措施之成效分析四、新住民支持經費之來源及分配五、其他新住民支持相關事項"},{"start":54616.124,"end":54633.35,"text":"定定或檢討新住民支持具體措施時﹐得邀集相關學者專家及民間團體代表列席提供意見第7條為研擬、定定或檢討相關知識事項﹐政府應每5年進行調查、擬定計畫﹐並將調查結果公開於網站"},{"start":54638.427,"end":54662.202,"text":"第8條 為推動新住民與其子女及家庭照顧、輔導、服務﹐人力資源培訓及發展﹐無障礙語言環境﹐建構多元文化社會﹐有效整合政府及民間資源﹐特設置新住民發展基金﹐新住民發展基金管理會及委員組成﹐納入具新住民或新住民子女身份之代表﹐新住民發展基金收支保管及運用辦法有行政院定之"},{"start":54663.444,"end":54689.59,"text":"第9條政府應與國家考試設立新住民事務相關類科﹐以因應新住民公務之需求第10條政府應辦理生活適應輔導﹐醫療生育保健﹐就業權益保障﹐提升教育文化﹐協助子女教養﹐人身安全保護﹐健全法令制度及落實觀念宣導等相關措施﹐以維護新住民及其子女在台之權益"},{"start":54690.63,"end":54714.616,"text":"前項服務措施政府應致力提供多語言服務第11條直轄市縣市政府應設新住民家庭服務中心對於在台之新住民家庭提供家庭婚姻及育兒等諮詢服務以及心理與法律諮詢之資源轉介對於新住民家庭之子女政府應提供輔導措施以協助其適應生活"},{"start":54716.007,"end":54734.454,"text":"第12條政府應規劃結合相關資源及學校﹐積極提供新住民學習我國語言及文字之資源﹐以有效消除語言隔閡政府應提供獎勵措施﹐結合各級學校、家庭與社區推動新住民語言及我國語言學習﹐並提供新住民子女教育協助"},{"start":54736.599,"end":54760.548,"text":"第13條政府應獎勵或補助新住民學術研究鼓勵大專校院設立新住民學術相關院系所學位學成培育新住民專業人才第14條政府應鼓勵相關機關構團體辦理新住民就業服務提供就業諮詢、就業媒合及輔導取得技術事證促進其就業"},{"start":54762.708,"end":54786.566,"text":"第15條政府應提供新住民關懷協助並對弱勢新住民給予輔助第16條政府機關構處理新住民事務﹐應使新住民得以其語言陳述意見﹐必要時應提供該語言之同意服務政府應於公共領域提供新住民語言諮詢等服務﹐及其他落實新住民語言友善環境之措施﹐助有績效者得予獎勵"},{"start":54788.362,"end":54811.434,"text":"第17條政府應鼓勵各媒體事業致播新住民語言文化之廣播、電視節目或影音並得予獎勵或補助以保障新住民媒體禁用權第18條政府應鼓勵新住民投入公共參與增進多元文化交流第19條文法施行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":54813.885,"end":54835.09,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無任何文字修正沒有修正我們決議新住民基本法制定通過報告委員會我們繼續處理審查會及院會所作附帶決議請議事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":54838.935,"end":54864.107,"text":"審查會通過附帶決議二項一有限於居住台灣地區人民受歧視申訴辦法第三條及第五條之規定顯對不按中文之新住民極不友善要求移民署儘速改善必使新住民便利使用申訴機制二要求內政部就業管部分定期盤點就反歧視相關法案行政命令檢討修正國民黨附帶決議一"},{"start":54869.89,"end":54890.996,"text":"請行政院於本法通過6個月內﹐針對外國人依法取得永久居留﹐盤點現行相關法律政策措施﹐將書面報告送立法院二﹐請內政部於本法通過6個月後﹐邀請民間團體及學者專家檢討《入出國籍移民法》第62條現行執行狀況之問題﹐並嚴提精進對策"},{"start":54900.586,"end":54927.611,"text":"三、為促進國際合作政府應鼓勵推動新住民與其母國之交流措施以促進我國與其母國兼經濟、社會、文化、宗教及學術等四項之交流合作四、本法立法通過施行一年後主管機關應提出新住民權益保障相關措施執行報告以落實新住民各項基本權益之保障民眾黨黨團互待決議一"},{"start":54930.769,"end":54958.969,"text":"教育部於本法通過三個月內嚴提嚴釐由中央主管機關統一定定徵選標準之可行性以嚴加把關施肢專業能力二請內政部於本法三讀通過後一年內嚴議檢討同意制度相關精進作為以確保新住民的權益不會因為語言差異而受到損害民進黨團"},{"start":54960.302,"end":54974.612,"text":"戶待決議一為了確保新住民事務能夠有效協調與推動要求行政院於本法三讀通過後三個月內研議修改設置要點增加新住民事務協調匯報之召開頻率戶待決議二"},{"start":54980.404,"end":55008.059,"text":"要求行政院於本法三讀通過後一年內研議檢討通譯制度相關精進作為並研議設立通譯培訓與認證專責單位宣讀完畢請問院會對附帶決有異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過報告院會現在繼續處理附議案兩件依先後順序處理請議事人員宣讀第一案"},{"start":55010.558,"end":55033.12,"text":"本院民進黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議一事日程報告事項第17案委員陳雪生等21人擬具離島建設條例第8條條文修正草案第18案委員陳雪生等22人擬具離島建設條例增訂第12條之二條文草案案院會所作決定提出覆議是否有當進行公決"},{"start":55036.032,"end":55054.679,"text":"本案作以下決定令定其處理繼續請議事人員宣讀第二案本院民進黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議一事日程報告事項國民黨黨團陣列第4案委員翁曉琳等17人擬具憲法訴訟法第4條條文修正長案台灣民眾黨黨團陣列第二案"},{"start":55066.423,"end":55086.025,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團擬具《農資公司法草案》、《第一層草案》、《原列第15案》本院委員陳永康等26人擬具《國家安全戰略法草案》案：委員所作決定提出復議請公決案宣讀完畢本案作以下決定另定其處理報告委員會今天是第11屆"},{"start":55087.677,"end":55115.862,"text":"第一會期宴會最後一個宴會日我想這個會期大家一定都收穫很大學習很多感慨也很多我們是三黨不過半113位立法委員幾乎有一半是新進的立委難免會有碰撞磨合我們也打架吵架拉扯但是我們也有溫暖團結合作30多年前我第一次當立法委員在台下質詢官員"},{"start":55117.202,"end":55142.922,"text":"每天磨刀霍霍充滿著理想想要職強力監督行政部門30多年之後坐在院長席位看到委員跟官員的互動諮詢我真心的感覺民主實在太可貴了所以在這個一個會期我們的磨合、我們的努力、我們的衝突不管怎麼樣我們得到了相當不錯的成果各位親愛的委員同仁我們通過了55個議案"},{"start":55145.373,"end":55158.282,"text":"包括法律案40個案、條約案3個案、復議案2個案以及其他議案10個案這裏面分4大塊包括保障人民的權益提升再生醫療打擊詐騙的危害"},{"start":55162.385,"end":55180.348,"text":"防制詐騙、詐欺犯罪危害等等強化保護海洋生態以及維護軍人跟勞工所以非常非常的不錯的成績來跟大家一起分享都是大家的努力在會期即將結束的時候"},{"start":55181.309,"end":55206.5,"text":"我們國於向代表立法院向所有的黨團所有的委員以及全體工作夥伴以及媒體朋友還有駐衛警的同仁們以及海內外關心立法院所有的好朋友們致上最高的謝意也祝福所有委員在休會期間大家平安健康祝福大家謝謝現在宣布散會"}]}},{"id":"154850","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154850","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7e5ef3d649cba376ab49a0c6dcc45fc3abaa9d91014138eaa4568268f2da45e0f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"23:24:05 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以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154836","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154836","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa73431f53c575415cbb49a0c6dcc45fc3a51efb3ecfee0069b508f01eb9e990b995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"22:09:48 - 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遺憾民進黨捏狂還要捏歪"},{"start":113.308,"end":131.933,"text":"這個民眾黨在協商的過程中已經主動撤回不堅持有爭議的相關法條在野黨在協商的過程中其實也多次讓步大家都秉持先求有再求好的精神來討論這個法案但最後很遺憾我們台灣民眾黨還是被扣上了紅帽子"},{"start":132.853,"end":159.955,"text":"以至於最終側牽翻桌讓今天大家要繼續加班協商破裂雖然可惜但既然如此我們不妨回歸初心支持基本法的概念也在此呼籲我們的政府應儘速準備相關的配套政策與法令修正不管怎麼樣法條的內容還是要認真的執行大家共同努力一起給新入名的好朋友更多的保障感謝大家謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154835","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154835","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa75a4b59e1de7bdb66b49a0c6dcc45fc3a51efb3ecfee0069bcb86a12d45e21ec65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"22:06:11 - 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謝謝好 謝謝各位委員請保持肅靜各位委員請尊重發言的委員請"},{"start":23.032,"end":37.884,"text":"好 主席各位同仁修法其實就是把不同的意見帶到會議當中大家可以整合並且在這個過程當中也許你聽到了新的意見甚至修改自己原來的意見這都不是壞事"},{"start":38.544,"end":56.927,"text":"我必須說其實像在這一次的修法當中我自己本人就是從新住民的基本法改換成為了新住民權益保障法大家都是基於保障新住民的權益這種初衷共同來思考如何的立法是最好的"},{"start":57.387,"end":70.217,"text":"而且又可以符合法治的體力最好的形式來保障新住民權益可是很遺憾的在經過內政委員會兩次委員會討論以及7月2號、7月9號甚至7月12號這院長召集的協商這麼多次的會議之後我們本來已經由不同黨派大家經過討論雖然很困難但是有一個共識包括名稱我們就是要用"},{"start":86.389,"end":107.744,"text":"新住民權益保障法用這樣作用法的形式來讓新住民的權益可以更快更全面的達到保障但今天這一切都變化了我們曾經拿掉大家都有共識喔大家都有共識之下拿掉可能會出現國安漏洞的條文今天又再次出現在會場上"},{"start":109.525,"end":122.97,"text":"協議法又再次消失成為了基本法我覺得這是非常可惜的事情我們必須說其實新住民的身份是暫時的是過度的是我們希望能夠"},{"start":124.07,"end":125.71,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":142.595,"end":165.735,"text":"客家人原住民這種基於血緣是不一樣的待遇不一樣的利基所以他並不是用基本法這樣子的最高的精神立法精神來做處理更何況我們如果今天是新住民用基本法這樣的架構來處理的話基本法在法律的解釋上是優於一般法"},{"start":166.235,"end":193.104,"text":"那麼我們往後這一部新住民的基本法未接將會架空陸委會和現行法律也就是台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例還有香港澳門關係條例將產生隔閡未來這個法律競合要怎麼處理這就是過去我們在幾次閒商當中大家最最認真的討論就是在這個部分而我們本已達成共識但"},{"start":194.184,"end":195.185,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"}]}},{"id":"154834","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154834","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7cf19692be4798dc9b49a0c6dcc45fc3a51efb3ecfee0069b250870e6442c78765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"22:02:30 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謝謝各位同仁我們很欣慰今天《省錢防治法》通過那剛剛大家所表決的這個法案我要在這邊特別的再強調為什麼台灣民眾黨非常堅持要在第19條要把它修正的加重因為"},{"start":25.948,"end":42.364,"text":"審查會通過的條文裡面很清楚他是一年以上七年以下但是我們的條文是三年以上十年以下這是在一億元以上的洗錢犯如果按照原來的版本一年以上七年以下洗錢大戶是有機會透過"},{"start":45.223,"end":60.323,"text":"認罪、協商甚至去罰錢他就可以免於刑責可以緩起訴、可以緩刑所以我們的法條修得非常清楚我們必須要在最低本刑三年以上我們才能夠懲戒所謂的洗錢大戶"},{"start":61.144,"end":62.384,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：請"},{"start":83.852,"end":98.785,"text":"這個《洗錢防治法》從頭到尾都在幫金管會擦屁股為什麼?他把虛擬資產業者放進來管一部《洗錢防治法》本來應該好好的去規範洗錢的行為但是我們成為了虛擬資產業者的管理辦法"},{"start":101.247,"end":127.654,"text":"所以剛剛聽到那麼多的附帶決議全部都是在幫金管會在這麼多年以來忽略了新興通路忽略了相關的新興的產業他們對於洗錢的行為這些防制作為金管會視而不見沒有看見所以剛剛下了非常多的決議要他們在6個月之內包括第三方支付包括數位資產、虛擬資產這些都必須要列入管理"},{"start":128.314,"end":131.839,"text":"金管會把責任推給了法務部這部洗錢防治法"}]}},{"id":"154825","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154825","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7f69486aaf3c17b4ab49a0c6dcc45fc3abb90f677001292057fcbc83bc95981385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"20:27:03 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19:35:53","影片長度":"00:03:14","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-16","start_time":"2024-07-16T19:32:39+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T19:35:53+08:00","duration":194,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議","id":"院會-11-1-22","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.78909375,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.320343750000003,"end":14.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.066593750000003,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.58096875,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.824718750000002,"end":26.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.570968750000002,"end":36.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.58221875,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.42034375,"end":51.719093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.90471875,"end":61.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.945343750000006,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.50471875000001,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.32721875,"end":107.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.89596875000001,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.07659375,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.64284375000003,"end":189.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.73971875,"end":192.47346875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.786,"end":35.251,"text":"主席在場的委員先進國人所痛恨的詐欺行為我們這次打詐司法當中非常重要的就是洗錢防治法因為可以說大部分的詐欺所得必須透過洗錢的方式才能轉為犯罪集團所使用然而洗錢的過程它牽涉到許多的階段將詐欺所得或是犯罪所得透過洗錢的方式可能包括有類似車手這樣的職場小白他們所從與協助的"},{"start":36.673,"end":58.849,"text":"又類似像一些灰色地帶從事地下匯兌或是典當業或是資源回收業大量現金回流的他們兼做這樣的洗錢工作這是另外一種那最為可惡的就是犯罪集團以專門設置的水房來從事洗錢的業務因此根據這三種不同的樣態最早在洗錢防治法第14條它是處以7年以下或罰併科500萬的罰金"},{"start":62.071,"end":86.567,"text":"但是在實務上呢往往因為這樣的刑度在法官量刑的時候對於出犯者都是以6個月以下得一顆罰金造成民眾對於說參與洗錢來協助詐欺這樣的罪犯不能得到應有的懲罰因此這次呢部分黨派我們在這次的洗錢防治法改列為19條之後呢就開始產生了需要有兩種不同的刑度首先對於較嚴重者"},{"start":87.628,"end":99.168,"text":"以不以他的前置犯罪為目的我們就以單純的洗錢就主張應該定為一年以上七年以下並以一億元的這個財產所得的洗錢的財產"},{"start":100.54,"end":106.346,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":121.883,"end":138.798,"text":"一年一年以上七年以下的這樣的一個刑度很容易在初犯或良刑的時候從一年起跳我們知道兩年以下得以緩刑也因此很多以洗錢為業的詐欺祖先在這樣的刑度之下仍然可以倒脫法律的制裁"},{"start":139.358,"end":153.379,"text":"因此在民黨團參酌了各黨團的意見之後我們主張仍然以現在的審查會意見我們維持一億以上跟以下分別定有一年以上七年以下的刑度對於嚴重者處以較高的刑度處罰"},{"start":154.52,"end":177.745,"text":"在1億以下的我們處以6個月以上5年以下但是對於符合《組織犯罪條例》所說的這個以發起、主持、操作或指揮者這尤其惡性重大我們予以定到3年以上5年以下並得課以1億5000萬的罰金相信這樣三個刑度的量刑能夠分別就參與洗錢的罪犯所給予他們應有的懲罰"},{"start":179.085,"end":192.399,"text":"當然目前我們看到另外兩個黨團的版本分別是3年以上10年以下跟這個所謂的來抱歉我想我們就請大家支持民進黨的版本"}]}},{"id":"154822","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154822","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa774bb525cac1e6335b49a0c6dcc45fc3aea32533940f0de545d5d57c87ccf072a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"19:29:15 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鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":20.424,"end":38.924,"text":"院長、本院委員這一次洗錢防治法的修正我們希望一方面有事前的管制但重要的事情是對於重大洗錢犯的行為絕對有必要加重處罰現行洗錢防治法不區分"},{"start":39.665,"end":39.925,"text":"請審議案：本院委員"},{"start":58.46,"end":73.611,"text":"這樣的狀態在年輕人涉及到金額比較低的洗錢犯罪的時候我們認為的確有給予自新的必要不宜重判但是當我們今天所考慮到的"},{"start":74.171,"end":98.148,"text":"是洗錢所涉及的財產或者是財產上的利益高達一億元以上的話如果我們對於這種犯罪的處罰只是維持現在的七年以下有期徒刑再加一個樓地板一年以上有期徒刑的話根本沒有辦法給這種重大洗錢犯適度的處罰"},{"start":99.429,"end":118.229,"text":"詐欺洗錢可以說是一體的兩面洗錢犯的存在有他獨自所要保護的利益因此台灣民眾黨黨團在這一次我們針對洗錢防治法第19條提出修正動議認為洗錢如果"},{"start":122.052,"end":140.86,"text":"財務或財產上利益高達1億元以上的話必須要處3年以上10年以下的有期徒刑這樣子才可以有效遏止重大的洗錢罪犯特別是針對有組織性的長期的系統性的洗錢"},{"start":142.079,"end":161.01,"text":"如果說今天我們針對這種重大洗錢犯只是透過組織犯罪防制條例首腦的條文來駕以處罰的話組織犯罪防制條例對於犯罪組織的首腦本來就已經處了3年以上10年以下有期徒刑的法定刑"},{"start":161.73,"end":177.461,"text":"如果再加上洗錢1億以上還是科與相當的刑度的話我們認為這樣子立法上面的規範根本沒有辦法適切反映出他所應該要承擔的罪責因此"},{"start":178.513,"end":188.279,"text":"在打仗非常重要的現在切斷不罰洗錢的金流特別是對於這種洗錢大戶加重處罰我們認為是現在社會對我們的期待謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154821","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154821","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa71bcfa5fc45c5e955b49a0c6dcc45fc3a9285d9ecd8532a85fc958fb506399f075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"17:54:20 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15條之一到15條之四已經嚴重的抵觸憲法的原來規定"},{"start":85.407,"end":108.421,"text":"因為憲法原來的規定給予國民大會的是得聽取總統國情報告並檢討國事提供建言提供建言是向總統提出但是現在的政修條文並沒有立法院可以向總統提供建言的相關規定因此2008年立法院之言行使法將聽取總統國情報告之後"},{"start":110.242,"end":136.79,"text":"透過15條之三、之四擅自增加了立法委員可以向總統提出他們的看法之後他其實至少他保留了由總統一期意願來決定是否做補充說明然而這次的我們的立法院職員行事法的擴選法案當中將由總統一期意願來予以做補充說明把它改成了因"},{"start":138.052,"end":150.699,"text":"而這裡面我們看到民眾黨說明雖然他根據的是15條之二來邀請總統然而他在最後面的第二行並依法回應立法委員之提問依什麼法"},{"start":151.653,"end":176.349,"text":"一、擴增、擴全扣折立法委員職權新施法嗎?憲法中二條文第四條第三項有說總統要來回應立法委員的提問嗎?沒有所以這明顯的就是一個不理解台灣我們中華民國憲法在中二條文嚴格的過程中由國民大會轉來讓渡給立法委員的職權當中修憲者已經有所修改了"},{"start":177.009,"end":191.097,"text":"國民大會可以監討國事提供建言立法院只能聽取總統國情報告所以呼籲大家在憲法法庭上位作出暫時處分前我們這樣的提議還是回歸到舊法來行使以上說明"}]}},{"id":"154819","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154819","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa740b6fd72ecaa3abab49a0c6dcc45fc3a9285d9ecd8532a856459bee0242884af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"17:47:48 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謝謝主席那這一個關於286條這個修正當然很多人會提到最近這一個虐童的案件但我還是要這個再次呼籲就是虐童相關的案件有很多的行政措施他其實可以在第一步的時候就預防讓這件事情不要發生不管是地方政府的一個審查的機制然後還是說機構本身的審查機制這其實吳寧是更為重要我們不希望是等到事情發生以後"},{"start":40.52,"end":53.184,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":65.888,"end":89.137,"text":"但是286條本身就有一個很大的疑義是在於說當時277跟286一同在修正的時候277提高的比較多286提高的比較少那就會形成一個詭異的現象因為如果我直接直接做傷害我會因為兒少法112條加重二分之一我用286的時候沒有辦法直接做加重因為它是一個特別規定"},{"start":89.597,"end":108.047,"text":"但它如果是一個特別規定那你直接做傷害刑度高286即使按照這一次因為它的法定型沒有修正我們只有針對未滿7歲的家中所以我今天在協商的時候有講得很清楚它是一個比較快速大概我們因為必須要先提高刑度來做一個威嚇可能不得已的做法"},{"start":108.627,"end":131.054,"text":"但是在未來如果真的要預防或者說真的要以橫平性跟比例原則來講的話其實還是應該要回到第一項跟第二項去研擬到底凌虐跟傷害的不同在哪裡因為畢竟凌虐不一定會造成傷害那用這樣的一個方式呢才更能夠反映目前台灣社會的現狀也才能夠真正預防未來事件的發生謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154804","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154804","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7419b4c4c39e372c4b49a0c6dcc45fc3aad23f9b49b70f1d504c117b4160d12fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"16:48:26 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help，尤其是健保法裡面的總額，這三條到了該要整修、好好澈底檢討的時候。","一些公家醫院的院長跑出來說1點1塊錢會衝量，這是胡說八道！公家醫院的土地、醫院的建築，幾百億都是公家拿錢出來蓋，每一年還有公務預算、公務人員的補貼等等，私人醫院、社團法人醫院要自己買地、自己蓋房子、自己準備工具，還要付薪水、還要更新設備，他們拿的健保費用跟公家醫院一樣，所以最沒有立場講點值的就是臺大跟榮總，這是我個人的看法，事實上也是這樣，所以給醫護人員一條生路，大家一起加油，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。","接下來請登記第2號陳昭姿委員發言，請王正旭委員準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137115","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137115_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條、第十四條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案─協商後處理─","agenda_id":"1137115_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.49596875,"end":25.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.204093750000002,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.01346875,"end":32.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.696593750000005,"end":36.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.00409375,"end":38.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.23159375,"end":40.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.53096875,"end":41.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.79221875,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.39034375,"end":50.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.111593750000004,"end":54.672218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.752218750000004,"end":56.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.524093750000006,"end":62.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.126593750000005,"end":65.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.83909375,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.88034375000001,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.10784375,"end":76.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.72784375,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.68534375,"end":80.25471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.94659375,"end":82.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.78596875000001,"end":84.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.87846875000001,"end":86.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.76409375,"end":88.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.65846875000001,"end":89.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":97.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.10846875,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.28471875000001,"end":105.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.85409375,"end":107.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.81159375,"end":116.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.98721875000001,"end":124.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.39971875,"end":142.69221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":21.533,"end":41.326,"text":"主席、各位同仁還有媒體朋友大家好對於今天健保法的修法沒有成功我個人是非常的失望那用主決議跟附帶決議這到底有多少效力我都打問號醫界也打問號"},{"start":42.847,"end":52.774,"text":"我們健保法裡面的總額制度已經實施了22年22年尤其是最近15年越來越嚴重我請問你們全民健保的滿意度是79.3%醫護人員的滿意度只有三成"},{"start":66.892,"end":86.849,"text":"有這個制度一直壓榨一直剝削一直踐踏一直蹂躪所有的醫護人員然後來迎合政府的光彩跑到WHA跑到瑞士在那邊吹牛台灣can help台灣沒有辦法can help現在人點滴都要need help"},{"start":87.856,"end":116.749,"text":"所以建保法尤其裡面的總額這三條是該道要整修要好好的徹底檢討的時候我們一些大公家醫院的院長也跑出來說一點一塊錢會充量這是胡說八道公家醫院它的土地它的醫院的建築幾百億都是公家拿錢出來蓋每年還有公務預算公務人員的補貼等等"},{"start":118.115,"end":142,"text":"施仁醫院、社團法人醫院﹐自己買地、自己買起儲﹐自己穿鞋子﹐還有付薪水﹐還有更新設備﹐他們拿的健保的費用﹐跟公家醫院是一樣﹐所以最沒有立場講點責任﹐就是臺大跟榮總﹐這是我個人的看法﹐事實上也是這樣﹐所以給醫務人員一條生路﹐大家一起加油﹐謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154797","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154797","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7725c2d64b334e3ddb49a0c6dcc45fc3aad23f9b49b70f1d51b0042045124b01f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"16:21:57 - 16:24:08","影片長度":"00:02:11","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-16","start_time":"2024-07-16T16:21:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T16:24:08+08:00","duration":131,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議","id":"院會-11-1-22","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":235,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（16時22分）主席、各位同仁。在探討NCC委員的產生，包括行政部門的任命權以及立法院行使同意權，我們不得不回到大法官解釋第613號的規範，其中有一段，我想分享給大家：基於權力分立原則，行使立法權之立法院對行政院有關通傳會委員之人事決定權固非不能施以一定限制，以為制衡，惟制衡仍有其界限，除不能牴觸憲法明白規定外，亦不能將人事決定權予以實質剝奪或逕行取代之。就是這個613號的釋字案，我們在委員會、在朝野協商，透過充分的論述、討論、對話，終於阻卻了國民黨原始要以政黨比例來提名委員的任命，乃至於剛剛民眾黨團的公視模式沒有在這次修法入法，我們予以肯定，我們擋下了違憲的條文。但是剛剛所通過的國民黨的修正動議，第一項規定通傳會委員的連任限制，以及刪除第五項有關延任的規定，事實上都對於NCC的職權行使造成扞格，NCC首重於通訊傳播產業監理的經驗傳承，實在不宜訂定再任的限制，可以擔任NCC委員的都是長期在相關領域有相當長才，有業界、有學術的基底，但是因此來限制了他們的延任，這非常不智，也相當可惜。至於過渡的條款絕非在野黨所解釋的萬年條款，是為了基於穩定NCC的日常運作來重視臺灣的通訊民生，所以說這次的修法非常遺憾，但是未來希望在野黨如他們所說的，不再阻卻NCC的人事同意權，希望能夠履行我們立法委員應負的職責，讓NCC的委員能夠完成投票，讓他們同意權的行使能夠順利，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言。","報告院會，各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢。","報告院會，我們進入討論事項第三十五案本院委員翁曉玲等人建請院會決議將郭國文委員移送紀律委員會一案。","報告院會，本案因尚待協商，作以下決議：協商後再行處理。","報告院會，我們進入討論事項第四十一案全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案。本案經本次會議決議：協商後提出本次會議處理。","報告院會，本案現已完成協商，請宣讀協商結論。","立法院黨團協商結論","時間：113年7月5日（星期五）下午5時31分","113年7月15日（星期一）下午3時10分","地點：議場三樓會議室、紅樓302會議室","協商主題：","一、社會福利及衛生環境委員會報告併案審查委員王育敏等19人、委員蘇清泉等28人及國民黨黨團分別擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。","二、逕付二讀：委員謝衣鳯等21人、委員楊瓊瓔等26人分別擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」等2案。","協商結論：","一、第六十二條，維持現行條文，並主決議如附件。","二、審查會保留3項附帶決議，不予處理。","三、新增附帶決議4項，通過如附件。","協商主持人：韓國瑜　　　江啟臣","協商代表：羅智強　　　張嘉郡　　　柯建銘　　　吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔　　　莊瑞雄　　　王育敏　　　傅崐萁","王正旭　　　洪孟楷　　　許宇甄　　　廖偉翔","陳　瑩　　　黃國昌　　　林思銘　　　黃珊珊(代)","林月琴　　　邱鎮軍　　　鄭正鈐　　　牛煦庭","吳春城(代)　陳昭姿　　　蘇清泉　　　劉建國","張智倫　　　徐欣瑩　　　徐巧芯　　　盧縣一","陳菁徽　　　羅廷瑋　　　陳亭妃　　　蘇巧慧","主決議","為改善醫療環境，維護醫事人員專業權益，衛生福利部應進行健保改革具體措施，於114年6月30日前達到平均點值一點0.95元，以維護全國醫事人員權益。","提案人：廖偉翔　　陳　瑩　　林月琴　　蘇巧慧　　陳亭妃　　王正旭　　傅崐萁　　黃國昌　　牛煦庭　　洪孟楷　　楊瓊瓔　　許宇甄　　陳菁徽　　陳昭姿　　林思銘　　林憶君　　王育敏　　陳玉珍　　吳春城　　林國成　　蘇清泉　　柯建銘　　盧縣一　　張智倫　　徐巧芯　　吳思瑤　　黃健豪　　羅廷瑋　　莊瑞雄　　","附帶決議","有鑑於我國社會發展和人口結構的快速變遷，導致醫療需求的大幅增加，使得現行的醫療體系和健保給付制度面臨許多挑戰和壓力。為確保國人享有高品質的醫療服務，同時落實賴清德總統選舉時之宣示，確有必要召開一次全國擴大會議，研討並推動醫療體系優化與健保給付制度的改革。為提升醫療服務質量、改革健保給付制度、提升醫療服務水平及給予國人可長可久的醫療品質。爰要求行政院應召開跨部會醫療改革會議，提出具體改善方案及相對應之期程，以回應國人的期盼，並落實本次修法的意旨。","提案人：中國國民黨立法院黨團","傅崐萁　　羅廷瑋　　蘇清泉　　洪孟楷　　陳昭姿　　黃健豪　　林憶君　　林思銘　　廖偉翔　　林國成　　陳菁徽　　許宇甄　　王育敏　　","附帶決議","按《全民健康保險法》第51條第4款規定，指示藥品不屬於健保給付範圍。惟健保開辦初期，考量醫師醫療與民眾就醫習慣，讓公勞保時代給付之指示藥品暫時繼續給付，但要求保險人應逐步檢討，並縮小該類品項之支付範圍，但迄今健保署仍在給付800多項指示藥品。為健全健保財政體質，爰要求衛福部針對指示藥退出健保給付擬訂時程表，三個月內提交該報告至立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會審議。","提案人：台灣民眾黨立法院黨團","黃珊珊　　陳昭姿　　林憶君　　林國成　　","黃健豪　　","附帶決議","有鑒於健保給付點數於扣除醫療機構營運成本、各類行政費用及設備費用後，應用於醫事人員待遇提升，而2015年起健保署曾為鼓勵醫院重視護理照護，提高住院病人醫療照護品質，推動護病比與健保支付連動之機制，立意良善，但成效仍相當有限。故為確保醫療機構將一定比率之收入盈餘用於提升醫事人員之薪酬待遇，避免部分醫療機構轉作他用而有悖於本次修法初衷，爰要求衛生福利部應另訂或修訂相關法規，規範健保點值保障之範疇應優先用於提升醫事人員之薪酬待遇，以落實本次修法之意旨。","提案人：台灣民眾黨立法院黨團","黃珊珊　　陳昭姿　　林憶君　　林國成　　","黃健豪　　","附帶決議","有鑑於90年代行政院衛生署為解決藥費支出過高之問題，修改全民健康保險法，制定藥價基準制度，要求醫療機構向藥商採購藥品時，於藥價基準內與藥廠進行議價，並將藥價殺低，藥價差額歸醫院享有方式，卻衍生藥商惡性競爭，且醫療機構變相依賴「藥價差」，成為另一個藥價困境，並可能間接造成部分醫療機構以利潤為本進行開藥，導致不必要之用藥不斷增加。根據醫藥界之估算，我國藥價差每年已達約新台幣七百億元之譜，此肇因於健保目前利益分配不符合公平原則所致，爰要求衛生福利部應借鑒日本之做法，一年內制定藥價調整機制並與醫藥界溝通，逐步達成合理藥價。","提案人：台灣民眾黨立法院黨團","黃珊珊　　陳昭姿　　林國成","黃健豪"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137115","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137115_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條、第十四條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案─協商後處理─","agenda_id":"1137115_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.64221875,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.27721875,"end":28.887218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.190968750000003,"end":37.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.94909375,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.79346875,"end":76.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.52096875000001,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.55346875000001,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.48784375000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.82784375000001,"end":128.63534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.926,"end":19.242,"text":"主席各位同仁在探討NCC委員的產生包括行政部門的任命權以及立法院行使同意權我們不得不回到大法官解釋第613號的規範其中有一段我想分享給大家"},{"start":20.063,"end":37.126,"text":"基於權力分立原則行使立法權之立法院對行政院有關通傳會委員之人事決定權故非不能施以一定限制以為制衡為制衡仍有其界限除不能抵觸憲法明白規定外亦不能將人事決定權予以實質剝奪或進行取代之"},{"start":38.027,"end":60.419,"text":"就是這個613號的釋字案我們在委員會在朝野協商那透過充分的論述、討論、對話終於阻絕了國民黨原始要以政黨比例來提名委員的任命乃至於剛剛民眾黨團的公式模式沒有在這次修法入法我們予以肯定我們擋下了違憲的條文"},{"start":61.88,"end":76.471,"text":"但是呢,剛剛所通過的國民黨的修正動議第一項規定通常會的委員他的連任限制以及刪除第五項有關嚴任的規定事實上都對於NCC的職權行使造成焊隔"},{"start":77.572,"end":99.858,"text":"NCC守重於通訊傳播產業監理的經驗傳承：實在不一定定在任的限制：可以擔任NCC委員的：都是長期在相關領域：有相當長才：有業界：有學術的基底：但是因此來限制了他們的嚴任：這是非常不智：也相當可惜"},{"start":100.638,"end":127.929,"text":"至於過度的條款：絕非在野黨所解釋的萬年條款：是為了基於穩定NCC的日常運作：來重視台灣的通訊的民生：所以說：這一次的修法非常遺憾：但是未來：希望在野黨如他們所說的：不再阻絕NCC的人事同意權：希望能夠履行我們立法委員應付的職責：讓NCC的委員能夠完成投票："}]}},{"id":"154796","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154796","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7fe1e4aab929ed874b49a0c6dcc45fc3aad23f9b49b70f1d52f368618fe0bf2635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"16:19:37 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各位董事 沒對一個國家的政府沒要照顧農民沒對一個政黨沒要照顧農民但是公牛和某個政策 咱們真的現實是在照顧人民半世紀進程 因為台灣人口多 咱中農生產不足所以政府呢 有這個公牛某個的制度"},{"start":39.429,"end":44.872,"text":"但是經過這半世紀的演變,第一,國際農業目標,我們很多牛是可以進口第二,我們社會因此的習慣改變,我們台灣吃米吃得少,因此,這個供牛補給制度,變成補充照顧農民的生活"},{"start":58.76,"end":76.357,"text":"但正在想,台灣的農民雖然中美是第一大作物但正在想,我們農民的得所不是只有中美現在是中農當中,三成才符合到供牛收工的資格七成的中農是沒有受到這個政策的保護但這個政策的結構,執行這幾年來"},{"start":79.039,"end":101.786,"text":"請審議員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人�"},{"start":107.648,"end":115.491,"text":"在13年前,我們在那裡一群頭介紹條件三項,其他的補貼條件兩項,忽然間,條件五項的結果,加過去三項跟兩項的区間的差別很大。因此,大多數,很多不是紐收工的工人,而是來專注擴大面積,作為先第二年的介紹的方法。"},{"start":128.596,"end":154.736,"text":"是在向公牛介紹水田收工提款﹚但像剛才說的﹚歸了各種人工的全部都增加﹚農民在中性的福祉並沒有改善﹚是在向這幾年來政府雖然沒有大幅提升公牛收工的介紹﹚但是透過其他種種的促進﹚包括說對地的綠色環境補助﹚這樣的一個制度也鼓勵農民實施轉作的制度﹚"},{"start":155.656,"end":169.441,"text":"實際上,農民、豬農也沒辦法全部交到公牛,我們有界外收工,有福德收工,有漁農收工,所以實際上這三個小的豬農,也不是所有的政策都可以在公牛介紹的步驟。所以我們來看,這憲書是猜出一群人有挑戰及誤會的情形,"},{"start":173.903,"end":193.087,"text":"是在向中農、地域、來地、看起來、歡喜、介紹提款但是在影響到我們其他10年作物的介紹包括我們屏東省紅島的,現在大家都來省下這時候影響到7年介紹的普通對農民真的不好,第二,我們在吃飽多藥,我們未來40多年專來對農民是更加好的,我們予以農務部來照顧中農,照顧全體農民"}]}},{"id":"154785","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154785","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa739ff383fc2190000b49a0c6dcc45fc3a5a606d8fd36218ffdb33f131730d363f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"15:27:10 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央苗每盤從28塊漲到40塊 漲幅43%我們的物價指數上漲15%以上 農藥肥料上漲將近25%"},{"start":88.254,"end":108.202,"text":"本系列說農民耕作的成本不斷地在增加那麼因此國內的工資也不斷地在調整所以我們堅定認為必須要全面照顧農民我在這邊懇求所有我們的"},{"start":109.603,"end":131.043,"text":"藍綠白的委員待會我們希望看到一致的同意綠燈讓我們的公羊收購13年來我們給他調整五塊全面的照顧農民農業部提出針對農民有利的方案我們非常的樂見而且公開來討論"},{"start":133.342,"end":160.977,"text":"各位委員我們心想以農立國的台灣有什麼理由不照顧我們的農民對不對所以我要拜託我們所有藍綠白的委員待會我們要還給農民的一個公道我更要告訴農業部針對農民有利的方案請你也要一定一定的精進方案出來比如說"},{"start":161.957,"end":172.32,"text":"你的轉做方案我們的腦農要更改要轉做不是那麼容易你要怎麼樣來協助我們的腦農這應該是我們的農業部應該要提出尤其我們農業的人力不足農業部你應該要提出所以最基本的我們的公糧收購價格"},{"start":187.083,"end":188.025,"text":"13年沒有調漲拜託大家全力同意調漲五塊還農民公道謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154784","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154784","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7ae2ab9fb1c8e9f73b49a0c6dcc45fc3a5a606d8fd36218ffed1ecc791caf098c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"15:23:39 - 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預計所需的收購經費是194.6億元194.6億元比現行的收購預算81.6億元足足要增加113億元"},{"start":145.833,"end":167.633,"text":"臺灣的農業應該照顧但是不是只有照顧這三成的稻農臺灣有很多包括花卉、雜糧、果樹其他的農產業都需要政府給予大力的輔導所以我們應該要支持農業部所提出來的"},{"start":168.454,"end":190.249,"text":"一極二轉3加3我們讓更多的農民能夠去種植優良的稻米讓農民的稻米產銷來進行集團的產作甚至轉做各些旱作的雜糧甚至我們第三個3加3我們就是提高水稻收入保險優質加強的項目讓"},{"start":193.331,"end":199.661,"text":"整個台灣的農產業都能夠全幅提升：懇請大家支持公糧價"}]}},{"id":"154783","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154783","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7129b8d774504bb1fb49a0c6dcc45fc3a5a606d8fd36218ffae3ce1dee761090e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"15:20:11 - 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用血淚這麼多的悲劇"},{"start":36.121,"end":61.611,"text":"我們後山的人民一起走過在今天立法院各政黨共同連署讓花東快速道路能夠正式來做成主決議並通過這次的大地震0403光是花蓮地區6次到8次的崩山蘇花公路"},{"start":62.961,"end":65.022,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具"},{"start":88.078,"end":112.23,"text":"這都是來自於全國跟全世界的好朋友這條安全回家路的新建是給所有中華民國國民共同來使用我想今天要特別的感謝大家能夠讓安全的路順利的來達成從台北到宜蘭通過國道5號接著銜接蘇花改再加上蘇花安"},{"start":113.123,"end":139.522,"text":"在銜接花東快從台北到台東市有一條完整的安全回家的路再一次謝謝立法院各政黨大家同心協力為台灣人民一起找出路讓大家都能夠平安謝謝各位 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Kacaw　　　洪孟楷　　林思銘　　柯建銘　　吳思瑤　　莊瑞雄　　黃國昌　　吳春城　　林國成　　黃珊珊　　林憶君"]],"agenda":{"page_end":101,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","傅崐萁","林憶君"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137115","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137115_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"四零三震災重建條例草案─不予審議─","agenda_id":"1137115_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.57221875,"end":23.875343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.02721875,"end":26.879093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.21659375,"end":36.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.409093750000004,"end":58.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.806593750000005,"end":64.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.57784375,"end":70.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.33221875000001,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.27846875,"end":91.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.25284375000001,"end":99.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.47096875000001,"end":101.53409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.68596875,"end":102.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.98534375000001,"end":109.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.20784375000001,"end":133.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.48659375,"end":136.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.14034375,"end":137.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.13159375,"end":140.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.93721875,"end":142.60784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":20.208,"end":36.62,"text":"各位大家好零四零三花蓮大地震後觀光客都進不來國旅失衡加上道路中斷對花東的交通不方便一大堆問題造成花蓮的觀光一落千丈"},{"start":37.461,"end":57.179,"text":"然後現在國人照花蓮住宿不分平日都有提供補助然後就是要開始透過花蓮用以最以以傲的觀光業來振興經濟然後蘇花鹿廊也因為地震就開始土石流然後也讓大家居民都不敢回來然後這一次的0403的大地震"},{"start":58.94,"end":59.6,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":83.53,"end":84.371,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":100.225,"end":123.132,"text":"我們三黨都有做成協議就是要希望能夠快點搶救到我們花蓮能夠重建我們花蓮的光光所以現在今天是真的是讓我們花蓮人真的感受到在那麼多年那麼多次的努力下我們終於有一絲絲的曙光可以來花蓮把花蓮好好的重建"},{"start":123.772,"end":142.085,"text":"所以希望還有一點希望能夠趕快把捐款還有相關的預算下放真正落實在我們花蓮這次的災後重建謝謝好 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非山地鄉的鄉鎮市山源的人口：只要達1500個人以上：應該要保障一席山源鄉的鎮市民代表席次："},{"start":134.068,"end":161.875,"text":"經過本席溝通並且統整各方的意見之後﹐最終審查的結果﹐就按照昭偉、高津、樹梅等21個人提案通過﹐在這裡我要特別感謝各位內政委員會的支持﹐也要謝謝我們辛苦的議事人員﹐希望待會三讀通過的時候﹐我們的族人能夠聽到這個好消息﹐謝謝"},{"start":166.243,"end":174.166,"text":"謝謝高經委員本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商令委員如下"}]}},{"id":"154774","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154774","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7a3ae0041472b7635b49a0c6dcc45fc3a26e6770bb8ac50868d27e5ce63abe3e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:45:54 - 09:51:05","影片長度":"00:05:11","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-16","start_time":"2024-07-16T09:45:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T09:51:05+08:00","duration":311,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議","id":"院會-11-1-22","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":241,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時45分）謝謝主席，各位院會同仁，大家好。有關於全民健康保險法第六十二條條文的修正草案，我作為衛環委員會的召委，已經在委員會裡面排了2次的審議及2次的協商，韓院長其實也主持了2次院會級的協商。","關於這個條文，我想主要的目的就是希望可以保障點值，讓我們所有醫療院所的運作、營運都可以是正常的運作，而不是因為我們健保總額的限制，然後被七折八扣，影響到醫療品質。所以這一個事情，在選前的時候，包括當時的總統候選人侯友宜總統候選人，還有當時的賴清德總統候選人，都允諾希望可以調高到健保點值1點1元的目標。","今天國民黨黨團還有蘇清泉委員，包括我本人，所提出來的是不同的版本，有1點1元，也有1點0.95元，所有的目的就是希望來支持我們的醫療體系，不要讓我們的醫護人員繼續的血汗。我想最近醫療現場急診塞爆的情況，大家都看得非常清楚，而我們常常說，我們的健保是世界的驕傲，但是我們健保是世界的驕傲不應該是建立在血汗的醫護上面。","因此這一次的修法，其實要達到非常重要的三個目的，第一個就是保障點值，保障點值是多少，大家可以來討論，昨天最新的朝野協商版本是1點0.95，希望可以有共識，大家往這個目標來邁進。第二，事實上，他希望可以提高的就是我們健保總額的成長率，因為我們的健保總額如果沒有適度地成長，當然餅就這麼大，然後醫療院所，如果它的個案量多的時候，它的點值就會自動下降，在疫情期間看得非常地明顯，尤其最近新冠疫情跟流感再起，我們都看到健保點值已經下降到零點八幾了，根本沒有保9。第三個，我們希望透過這樣子的立法跟修法，可以為醫事人員加薪，我想醫護人員在第一線真的非常地辛苦，在疫情期間，我們都看到他們多麼堅守第一線的崗位，為大家打拼。然而，他們所受到的待遇跟他們的付出，其實沒有得到一個正常的比例，主要就是我們現在健保點值過低，所以導致醫療院所也沒有更多的錢可以去幫醫事人員加薪。因此，這次保障健保點值如果通過的話，那所有的醫療院所也已經承諾，就是要優先幫我們的醫事人員加薪。","我想賴總統當選之後，他說要打造健康臺灣，但我要講的是，健康臺灣不能是一句口號，健康臺灣，你就要去投資我們所有的這一些醫療人員，他薪資的提升跟設備的提升。我們國家的財政每年超徵稅額超過3,000億，所以我們是有餘裕來優先挹注在全民健保上的，因為全民健保是照顧每一個國民的健康。因此這一次的修法，我們希望朝野立委大家都來支持，我們一起來挺醫護，我們有醫護人員願意在第一線長期的奉獻，我們才有永續的健保。所以這一次的修法，到目前為止民進黨黨團還沒有正式的簽，昨天其實已經有一個主決議了，這個部分我們也希望民進黨黨團在最後可以簽下這個主決議，我們一起支持保障健保點值，這一次保障健保點值1點0.95可以通過，我們一起挺醫護、挺健保，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","本案經審查會決議，須交由黨團協商。另外，委員謝衣鳯等、委員楊瓊瓔等分別提案，經第1會期第12次會議決定，逕付二讀，並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商。"],["委員謝衣鳯等提案：","案由：本院委員謝衣鳯、羅廷瑋、邱鎮軍、林沛祥等21人，認為現行健保總額預算制度為「上限制總額」，在此上限天花板之下，只要醫療院所服務量超出預期就浮動點值，不但對醫事服務提供者不公平，也間接影響了民眾的就醫權益。爰擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」，明定健保平均點值最少不得低於0.95，但因而超出醫療給付費用總額之部分，由中央政府負擔之。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：謝衣鳯　　羅廷瑋　　邱鎮軍　　林沛祥　　","連署人：黃　仁　　鄭正鈐　　洪孟楷　　王育敏　　謝龍介　　張智倫　　羅智強　　林德福　　楊瓊瓔　　陳雪生　　徐巧芯　　黃健豪　　丁學忠　　陳菁徽　　黃建賓　　涂權吉　　葉元之　　"],["委員楊瓊瓔等提案：","案由：本院委員楊瓊瓔、顏寬恒、陳菁徽、賴士葆、葉元之、鄭正鈐、許宇甄、邱鎮軍等26人，有鑑於全民健康保險醫療給付採總額給付制，醫療給付點值因機構服務量提高而降低，近年由於新冠疫情爆發加上整體醫療需求增加，然而健保總額制度使健保費用上漲壓力由醫療機構負擔，使醫療機構經營困難，加上醫療機構為求降低經營成本，致使醫護人員低薪並產生權益受損。為穩健我國醫療體系之永續發展，爰擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」，將醫療支付保有固定點值為一點1元。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：楊瓊瓔　　顏寬恒　　陳菁徽　　賴士葆　　葉元之　　鄭正鈐　　許宇甄　　邱鎮軍　　","連署人：蘇清泉　　陳超明　　涂權吉　　王育敏　　林德福　　陳永康　　林倩綺　　萬美玲　　呂玉玲　　林沛祥　　謝龍介　　傅崐萁　　陳雪生　　羅明才　　黃建賓　　張嘉郡　　黃　仁　　牛煦庭　　"],["主席：報告院會，本案因尚待協商，作以下決議：協商後提出本次會議處理。","進行討論事項第四十二案。","四十二、(一)本院司法及法制委員會報告併案審查委員黃健豪等20人、委員徐巧芯等18人分別擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」、委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正草案」、委員王育敏等20人、委員楊瓊瓔等20人分別擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」、委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條及第二百八十六條之一條文修正草案」、國民黨黨團、委員柯志恩等19人、委員徐欣瑩等18人及委員陳超明等22人分別擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。（本案經提本院第11屆第1會期第5、6、6、7、7、7、7、7、8、8次會議報告決定：交司法及法制委員會審查。茲接報告，爰於本次會議提出討論。）","(二)本院委員賴士葆等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(三)本院委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(四)本院委員盧縣一等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。（以上三案經提本院第11屆第1會期第11次會議報告決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。爰於本次會議提出討論。）","(五)本院委員許宇甄等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。（本案經提本院第11屆第1會期第12次會議決定：自司法及法制委員會抽出逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。爰於本次會議提出討論。）","(六)本院委員魯明哲等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。（本案經提本院第11屆第1會期第13次會議報告決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。爰於本次會議提出討論。）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":258,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137113","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137113_00005","1137113_00006","1137113_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案─協商後處理─","agenda_id":"1137113_00010"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.29221875,"end":10.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.645343750000002,"end":15.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.83846875,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.17034375,"end":73.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.16721875,"end":83.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.60846875,"end":85.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.22846875,"end":146.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.16409375,"end":172.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.21909375,"end":180.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.09971875000002,"end":243.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.12784375,"end":249.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.62909375,"end":283.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.10471875,"end":302.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.05096875000004,"end":305.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.08409375,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.94846875,"end":311.96534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.815,"end":22.965,"text":"謝謝主席各位院會同仁打好有關於全民健康保健法第26條條文的修正草案那我作為衛環委員會的召委已經在委員會裡面排了兩次的審議然後兩次的協商那韓院長其實也主持了"},{"start":23.845,"end":48.855,"text":"兩次的院會級的協商那這個條文呢我想主要它的目的就是希望可以保障典值讓我們所有醫療院所它的運作、它的營運都可以是正常的運作而不是因為我們健保總額的限制然後被七折八扣影響到醫療品質"},{"start":51.127,"end":68.511,"text":"所以這個事情在選前的時候包括當時的總統候選人侯友宇總統候選人還有當時是總統候選人的賴清德總統候選人都允諾希望可以調高到"},{"start":69.131,"end":83.528,"text":"建保點值1.1元的目標那今天國民黨黨團還有蘇津全委員還有包括我本人所提出來的是不同的版本有1.1元也有1.1元"},{"start":85.66,"end":97.956,"text":"0.95元那所有的目的就是希望來支持我們的醫療體系我們的醫護人員不要讓他們再繼續的血汗我想最近醫療現場急診"},{"start":99.998,"end":105.161,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":117.928,"end":132.536,"text":"這次的修法其實要達到三個目的非常的重要第一個就是保障點值那保障點值是多少大家可以來討論那昨天最新的朝野寫商的版本"},{"start":135.637,"end":159.969,"text":"1.0.95那希望這個可以有共識大家往這個目標來邁進第二事實上他希望可以提高的就是我們健保總額的成長率因為我們的健保總額如果沒有適度的成長那當然餅就這麼大然後醫療院所如果他的個案量多的時候他的點值就會自動下降在疫情期間"},{"start":160.469,"end":162.132,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":174.451,"end":195.117,"text":"我們希望透過這樣子的一個立法跟修法可以為醫事人員加薪我想醫護人員在第一線真的非常的辛苦在疫情期間我們都看到他們多麼堅守第一線的崗位為大家打拚然而他們所受到的待遇其實"},{"start":195.657,"end":199.278,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具"},{"start":224.408,"end":243.323,"text":"這個賴總統他當選之後他說他要打造健康台灣但我要講的是健康台灣不能是一句口號健康台灣你就要去投資我們所有的這一些醫療人員他的薪資的提升跟設備的提升"},{"start":244.184,"end":261.904,"text":"我們國家的財政每年超徵稅額超過3000億所以我們是有餘裕來優先挹注在全民健保上的因為全民健保是照顧每一個國民的健康因此這一次的修法我們希望"},{"start":262.244,"end":266.046,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":286.135,"end":286.635,"text":"本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商"}]}},{"id":"154773","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154773","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa70de3e8b298dad2fdb49a0c6dcc45fc3a26e6770bb8ac5086ba941ceeb2c04d815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:38:27 - 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內向院會提出調查報告追究相關失職人員的責任請大家支持"},{"start":201.774,"end":204.601,"text":"謝謝蘇委員現在進行大體討論"}]}},{"id":"154771","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154771","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa786e6610498b73decb49a0c6dcc45fc3a26e6770bb8ac5086df376f3bcf18f1735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:25:00 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因為那個山山山山可能我可以請他嘗試過來但是我們黨真的希望吳委員您可以幫我們做個道歉因為你把我們抹紅的太嚴重了而且我陳昭之不能讓你抹紅的那個麻煩我們把那個門口先不好意思各位外面新聞界好朋友我們現在為了開會能夠專心我們把門稅管制一下 謝謝好 周志偉謝謝 您稍微等一下"},{"start":1920.473,"end":1948.803,"text":"各位黨團幹部現在台灣民眾黨黨團幹部沒有到現場這個對朝野協商來說是不具法定效力那能不能分我們分兩個步驟第一個請陳昭州委員再跟你黨團幹部最前面來一位這是第一個請聯絡第二個咧在等待過程我們不能一味的這樣等下去我們還是請黨團還有很多熱心的委員也到了現場加邱部長還有衛福部很多官員都在我們可以先把意見來表達"},{"start":1950.003,"end":1957.814,"text":"那也許等一下他們會有黨團幹部到現場來會有新的契機發生我們再說那首先"},{"start":1961.13,"end":1983.564,"text":"現在跟大家報告一下現在我們併案協商的是全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案共五案我們以併案審查已經完整三案分別是王育敏十九位委員、蘇清泉等二十八位委員及國民黨團分別凝聚全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案進覆二讀"},{"start":1985.665,"end":2001.457,"text":"兩案,一,謝一鳳二十一位委員,二,楊瓊英二十六位委員,分別凝聚全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案。」現在主要爭議點就在於是否需法律明定"},{"start":2003.298,"end":2030.723,"text":"醫療服務總點數每點費用下限問題。」這是一個爭議點那介紹完各位已經介紹完列席的我們邱部長及各位官員那現在三本草案審查及協商的進度一社會福利及衛生環境委員會於今年五月二日完成審查二於五月十五日六月十九及七月五日進行黨團協商但是並沒有完成協商"},{"start":2032.835,"end":2047.691,"text":"4.我們現在開始進行協商5.我們繼續還要接著討論附帶決議6.全民健康保險法第...好這個到這裡我想我們主要的爭議點能不能請我們"},{"start":2050.214,"end":2078.155,"text":"王玉明我召集委員您先發言好嗎?謝謝院長我陳希信院長謝謝院長等一下等一下稍等一下先問陳希我請王玉明總召集委員因為民進黨民進黨黨團當然根本沒有來陳召集委員來離島他們應該面目有授權有授權嘛山山已經走過來了反正到最後沒有關係最後簽名一夥在最後的事情所以應該是沒有所謂說不計效率的問題啦"},{"start":2079.196,"end":2080.378,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":2099.247,"end":2100.328,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":2111.906,"end":2113.827,"text":"其實也舉辦過這個公聽會就是讓各方去表達這樣的一個意見那這個事情為什麼一定非修法不可呢主要其實是現在的衛福部他的己父他並沒有保障"},{"start":2129.818,"end":2146.992,"text":"建保點子並沒有保障。」所以他是非常浮動的前陣子我上次已經講過臺北市醫師公會跟新北市醫師公會都詢問給立法院了他說最近這個案件數就是流感上升加上COVID之後他們的點子下降到只有0.8幾"},{"start":2149.073,"end":2150.574,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":2169.844,"end":2187.262,"text":"總額成長是有限的。」所以在這樣的情況底下他們都很痛苦醫界是很痛苦就是說一個不確定的這樣的一個健保點子所以醫界他現在的訴求其實非常明白就三件事情第一個就是要保障健保點子前一陣子包括台大醫院"},{"start":2187.922,"end":2200.676,"text":"跟榮總、北榮兩位院長他們都有開一個記者會那他們出來之後他說他們只要求要保障健保點值那臺大院院長說最好是0.92到0.95"},{"start":2203.94,"end":2222.519,"text":"這個是最有權威的兩大醫院的院長他們的訴求還是希望要保障健保點子這樣子他們實質在運作上面才不會說這個心裡非常的浮動不知道今年這個多做了之後這些醫療然後又被這個整個健保署就倒扣回來"},{"start":2223.12,"end":2223.64,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":2245.293,"end":2247.415,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":2271.795,"end":2297.345,"text":"我們保障了這個健保點值讓醫院有充分的這個營運的費用之後他們可以為醫事人員加薪我想這個是非常重要的大家每次在這一些疾病疫情的時候都會說我們一線的醫護真的非常的辛苦他們非常的血汗但是事情過了之後就忘了所以大家還記得嗎賴清德總統他在去年"},{"start":2298.465,"end":2310.74,"text":"要選舉的時候11月他自己說幫醫護人員請命他要求他要求當時的行政院你要撥補預算然後他要求當時的健保點子你要給到1.1元"},{"start":2313.877,"end":2343.317,"text":"這次當時賴清德總統選舉之前他說他要幫醫護人員請命然後還要求行政院要增加預算那我想今天國民黨黨團包括蘇清泉委員跟我所提出來的這個版本就是希望我們可以明確保障這個醫院他們醫事人員這麼辛苦在第一線維護大家的健康那我們應該要確保醫院是要永續的運作那整個政府有責任"},{"start":2343.757,"end":2370.475,"text":"基部給醫院的健保點子應該要有一定的保障而不是像現在這樣子浮動的所以我希望這個法案其實是為了醫療人員為了他們的第一線也為了整個醫療院所的永續醫療院所永續才有健保的永續所以希望透過這次的修法的討論我們真的可以做到三點保障保障健保點子提高健保總成長率為醫事人員加薪這三件事謝謝"},{"start":2374.698,"end":2387.989,"text":"謝謝我們召集委員、王育民委員講得非常的清楚啊。現在我們三個團團發言完畢之後就請邱部長請準備發言。我們首先請國民黨團林思明委員首副請發言。然後請柯總召、吳思堯委員請準備。"},{"start":2390.632,"end":2407.729,"text":"謝謝院長、各位黨團幹部、各位委員以及我們衛福部邱部長我想這個健保點值這件事情我們在上次的協商其實大家也談了蠻久了我想衛福部也有充分表達衛福部的意見但是我想"},{"start":2408.47,"end":2429.599,"text":"我們還是基於說我們整個未來醫療品質的提升以及讓我們的醫護人員有更好的一個待遇那讓我們台灣的醫療環境能夠更好我們還是認為健保的點只要有保底如果你沒有保底的話我想這些這個不管是醫療院所或者我們醫護呢大家都很擔心"},{"start":2430.559,"end":2458.862,"text":"每天就是更操勞但是我應該獲得的報酬那個醫院端因為他的這個獲得的這個健保的一個分擔分配到的金額不夠造成整個醫療院所他們沒有辦法給他們加薪所以他們真的是叫做血汗醫護很辛苦所以我還是希望衛福部你要提出如果你認為說這個法不應該修但你要怎麼做到目前為止我們完全看不到衛福部的一個很積極的態度"},{"start":2460.183,"end":2460.984,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．"},{"start":2489.148,"end":2510.958,"text":"內席人員這問題在上次我們談了很久也談很透徹那所講的不外乎國民黨所講法不外乎沒有超過上次講的第一個就是說王一鳴委員剛才講到一個事情說你開過公聽會結論就是說非修法不可"},{"start":2512.638,"end":2527.566,"text":"我們今天談要修法的時候也並非那個條文二十六十二條然後表決通過然後就是要照這樣做因為市民有問這樣修一個點子一塊錢的話是要三千億的"},{"start":2530.808,"end":2557.817,"text":"安保費額不增加的話那這件事其實是破產嘛所以我們今天要講一個就是說選舉的時候的一些證件和說法並非我知道那時候火雨嘛應該是火雨嘛1.1塊錢嘛大家都很高興沒有你等一下你聽我講完我們把很多事理清啊大家不知道會不會那有很多人理清在談事情"},{"start":2560.017,"end":2579.003,"text":"所以當然一屆也都很高興一屆也都是我的朋友也是在座各位的朋友他們的現在意見所碰到困難幫到團體也看過韓院長我也看過也看過我想也看過邱部長在選前的時候我們也跟他常常碰面這是一個問題"},{"start":2581.084,"end":2608.678,"text":"但是我相信每一屆人都會想說,我們能夠滿足所有的需求吧,可以加薪啊,點資料保障啊,什麼都來。但是我們要看這個整個健保稅,健保它本來這個總額本來又一來一直增加嘛,現在已經總額已經二十年嘛,那現在已經到八千七百多億嘛,明年想九千多億了,今年應該會到九千多億。所以要了解說,這是財富的問題嘛。"},{"start":2611.411,"end":2639.988,"text":"不是單一個解決方式就要修了就結關我想也不是這麼回事大家都想去解決這個問題我覺得我們應該理性來談這是第一點第二點就是保障點子我想每一個人都希望說能夠給你保障當然最好能夠加薪這個都是坦白講藝術人員的辛苦大家也知道每一個行業都有他的辛苦的一面"},{"start":2641.468,"end":2662.597,"text":"我的講法就是說第一個不存在所謂我們比較不贊成所謂非修法不可啦這是第一個修法也不是立法院立法委員提一個法修然後國家會一心多意我想這個在大概了解這種這種在香港程序上面也不合不合了"},{"start":2663.357,"end":2672.631,"text":"至於在總統在選舉的時候講的他只是說所謂的他也講他自己很痛苦嘛他只是說以1.1塊錢為目標啦他沒有講這麼實嘛"},{"start":2678.9,"end":2704.791,"text":"他是異界出身的,他很清楚嘛。然後009以一塊錢為目標,這是一種大家的期許嘛。他沒有說一定要收一塊錢。所以我們今天肯定就是說,不過剛才市民委員講一個不需要要如何做,我自己也來講,沒關係。這個還比較實際,那你不懂大家來討論一下嘛。"},{"start":2706.592,"end":2721.983,"text":"長短期、中期、長期應該怎麼做?政府所謂的健康投資要怎麼做?有些東西包括不應該塞進健保的應該拿出來吧?包括36%裡面我們要把它講清楚嗎?"},{"start":2725.405,"end":2748.642,"text":"所以我看法就是說我們盡量朝一個理性的方式來談談那單一直線的講法我想可能不大適合謝謝柯建民總召的發言跟各位黨團幹部還有委員報告我們第一輪先各黨團幹部發言完畢之後馬上開放各位委員都可以自由發言那現在國民黨團發言完民進黨團也發言現在請黃珊珊幹事長請發言那我們先黨團幹部發言因為現在還有吳思瑤在準備"},{"start":2760.671,"end":2770.778,"text":"建保長期投資太少,這是不爭的事實,包括醫療投資也是如此,我們在OECD國家百分比是不到70,在前一次我也一再強調。"},{"start":2772.74,"end":2790.076,"text":"因為這樣的狀況下我們給付的扭曲非常的嚴重我自己在生態健保所當專家委員甚至召集人長達將近三十年我以癌症來做舉例全世界沒有一個國家對癌症的給付是只有他的適應症的三分之一不到"},{"start":2790.717,"end":2792.758,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":2814.949,"end":2832.659,"text":"提出那該做什麼呢?」只有說不做什麼那該做什麼始終都沒有提也沒有提出修正案也沒有提出配套做法這是不負責任的那本黨在這個之前這個在委員會我們就提出三項的附帶決議我先把它講一次然後我要求等會我會要求這個包括執政黨或是說衛福部這邊要提出這個"},{"start":2838.702,"end":2844.243,"text":"優先次序跟執行的時程。第一個,我們的三項附帶決議,就是點植保障的範疇優先用於提升醫事人員的薪酬待遇,當然包括很重要的護理師,確保醫護的待遇能夠獲得改善。第二個,針對這個指示要依法退出健保給付擬定時程表,健保署不要再帶頭違法,不然有本事就把這個法律改掉,應該要回歸"},{"start":2863.807,"end":2874.714,"text":"建保藥保大病校,病症民眾自己照顧。」因為眼前的健保,就是小病保得滿,大病有大缺口,非常的嚴重,集中那個南韓症,又有非常大的缺口。第三個,逐步設定合理的要價差的這個界線,現在沒有個官員敢提要價差。剛剛提到了兩千多億的這個藥費,事實上有七百億是要價差。"},{"start":2887.222,"end":2891.666,"text":"七百為什麼有這個要價差呢因為這長期這個醫這個專業服務費不足所以讓逼迫醫院跟醫師去以藥養醫靠其他的方式來做這個彌補我們希望讓醫療院所正正當當的賺錢他們用醫療來專業來服務照顧大家他們有權利得到正正當當的這個一個正好的正常的收入所以我以下提出幾點我也希望健保署那個衛福部這邊能夠理解"},{"start":2913.146,"end":2921.049,"text":"等下我希望能夠有清楚的這個時程或是優先次序的確認然後這個提出我們這個民眾黨想法那因為我們的主席他也是在議界非常的長久他也理解我們知道純粹的點子還不還不足以改善現在的健保的這個扭曲的困境第一個當然講的是只是要不給付因為根據目前第51條除非你把它修正那這個論點是在於"},{"start":2938.737,"end":2939.798,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例"},{"start":2963.05,"end":2967.273,"text":"七百億的要價差但是全台灣四百家醫療院所溢價能力完全不同所以大醫院是大者恆大強者恆強我們整個醫療結構是扭曲的那專業服務費的調升這是非常重要剛剛我也提到你想連醫師看一個診都兩百多塊錢謊論其他的醫療人員那剛剛我提到醫院的一定比率要用於改善醫護的待遇"},{"start":2991.092,"end":2997.217,"text":"然後不要認為我們台灣是醫療第一好嗎我們台灣輸太多了這是民眾所不理解的除了看病方便他們把健保的滿意度打成90%90分以上事實上他們不知道我們癌症的存活率我們的新生兒死亡率我們的糖尿病的這個合併症死亡率我們的平均壽命都遠遠落後很多國家包括鄰近的國家都在末段班"},{"start":3015.811,"end":3017.812,"text":"第六個就是醫療科技的評估一定要好好處理要把確定錢花在刀口上但是怎麼來評估我們現在還留在非常落後的階段沒有升級沒有進階一直留在2007年的算法就是加減的算法"},{"start":3032.082,"end":3052.296,"text":"沒有辦法把真正的醫療費用改善國人的品質包括讓孩子回到學校上課包括讓成年人回到職場工作增加生產力包括如何減輕家庭的負擔包括如何減少長照醫資源的使用這個都是衛福部衛福部改名就是因為它有衛生福利部而不再是純粹的衛生署以上這幾點"},{"start":3056.619,"end":3074.67,"text":"配套措施或是做法我希望今天能夠得到得到這個衛福部這邊有一個優先次序的跟時程的一個初步的資料那這個以上表達民眾黨的意見謝謝主席謝謝陳昭之委員發言然後請吳思耀委員發言然後接著請邱部長準備請"},{"start":3077.005,"end":3091.685,"text":"好 謝謝主席這個題目我們也透過不管是委員會的審查或者是協商上一次我都充分對話那我想民進黨團絕對是支持國家來增加對於健康醫療的投資這沒有問題"},{"start":3092.806,"end":3116.071,"text":"我們也絕對是全力來想方設法一起來改良醫護工作環境然後改善他們的福祉這也是我們要共同努力那當然很重要的民進黨團也決力決定也一定全力來改革健保制度這都是我們一定要做的事情但是現在回到這個法案的命題是要讓典值第一個保障"},{"start":3117.369,"end":3140.467,"text":"然後第二個要入法那當然在制度面我們也多次的論述如果典值的入法那就形同讓健保總額支付的制度它會被打破那健保的永續運作堪慮甚至會引發城鄉差距失衡的一個副作用在制度面我們也多所的談及那在法制面還是要提醒"},{"start":3141.527,"end":3159.754,"text":"立委提案來增加政府的支出這對於預算法以及財政紀律法裡頭都有所焊隔所以法制面還是要請委員們多所斟酌財務面當然我們都知道如果保障點值0.95要增加705億"},{"start":3161.976,"end":3175.849,"text":"1.1元要1155億,更嚴峻的是,我們現在的安全準備可能明年114年就一次用慶了,所以說現行的費率如果5.17%就不足之應的話,可能113年底對人民要來調賬保費,這可能會是連帶的影響,這個事情姿勢體大。」"},{"start":3185.859,"end":3187.24,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":3213.071,"end":3240.828,"text":"將健保支付的這個公衛預算由公務預算來支應等等其實有很多的配套都會盡可能達到對於點值0.92往以上的提高嗎這個都是他們在行政作為就不入法不修法的處理我希望等一下大家能夠讓行政部門多一點說明那最後一點呢是我也要補充剛剛玉敏委員也都提到我也關照到台大醫院跟榮總院長對於"},{"start":3242.469,"end":3263.233,"text":"修法的這個說法。」那我手上拿的這個是聯合報聯合報是說健保點值入法保障1.1元臺大院長吳明賢是不贊成他有他的觀點然後這個是中央社的報導臺大醫院跟北榮的院長兩個龍頭都表態不贊成健保點值"},{"start":3263.713,"end":3279.581,"text":"每點一元。」這個是新聞也是他們的說法那我可以再進入他們的完整的一個論述就是說像吳明璇院長也提到如果說修法來保障點值一點一元的話恐怕會導致醫界充量過度醫療"},{"start":3282.216,"end":3294.186,"text":"沒有辦法這是人性所致。」所以說這樣子入法的方式真的值得去審酌而且就會造成健保制度設計另一個層面嚴重的問題那當然榮總院長陳威名"},{"start":3297.729,"end":3318.452,"text":"他也看法跟吳明賢院長、臺大院長想法一致那當然如何以保久然後行政作為再努力往上調這是醫界都努力也都樂見其成的事但是兩個醫院的龍頭臺大跟榮總是不支持用入法的方式來保障點值1.1元"},{"start":3319.053,"end":3319.473,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":3335.987,"end":3363.167,"text":"他也一再的再次強調也還原他當初的說法那當然總統也強力責成行政部門要用各種的行政作為然後來提高我們健保的這個點值來讓醫界確實能夠緩解一些壓力所以我很希望我們很理性的坐在這裡討論這個問題如果能夠行政部門就靠你們的功力趕快拿出你們完整的配套然後充分的說明然後來說服在野黨的委員大家的目標都一致"},{"start":3364.028,"end":3382.923,"text":"來協助醫界然後提升我們的醫療投資我們的目標是一致的但是不入法不用入法的方式是說服大家我們一樣能夠做到反而真的入法可能造成了其他的副作用這個制度的崩壞這不是我們能夠負得起的一個後果也不是大家所樂見的謝謝"},{"start":3385.236,"end":3412.098,"text":"我想我們大家都非常期待邱部長等一下來做出說明部長你有三種身份你當醫生又當立法委員現在又是衛福部長都對你期待很高請說明好 謝謝院長更謝謝各黨團的代表跟各位我敬愛的委員還有所有的工作夥伴那真的衷心的感謝各黨團還有所有的委員為了我們台灣醫療品質的提升"},{"start":3412.861,"end":3439.354,"text":"我們醫事人員的尊嚴還有他們的收入的維持特別是關心到所有醫療院所的順利運作這也是二十年來我想我們不管是在醫師公會或者我們跟衛福部的互動當中都是以這三個原則在努力那我想現在的醫療的環境比較不好我們真的每一個人都有責任昨天晚上我們也很感動賴總統"},{"start":3440.987,"end":3451.207,"text":"在藥師公會前面會的會員代表大會裡面特別在強調一切所碰到的任何問題都是他以及我們行政部門必須要"},{"start":3452.362,"end":3476.36,"text":"來解決的。」那我也感動得到當然各位陳清惠委員曾經提到我2018年5月提出的一個互待結議真的我們都很希望跟大家一樣很希望能夠讓醫療的一個環境能夠改善我們就是往這一方面在努力那在今年的"},{"start":3479.763,"end":3493.438,"text":"內總統一當選了以後馬上在推動的六場健康台灣論壇其實那是有史以來算是比較大型的全國的醫政會醫政跟健保的改革會議收集了一千兩百位"},{"start":3494.398,"end":3523.248,"text":"專家的一個建議他從全人從生到死各個階段我們怎麼樣來給他們最好的照顧包括孕婦的生產以後的孕婦的第四產期還有整個我們擴大我們的篩檢的上下的年齡廣度深度其實這個我們現在都很努力在做所以目前的一個當然這其中最重要就是健保的改革"},{"start":3524.108,"end":3537.283,"text":"建保改革分為進程、中程、遠程。這個我們日以繼夜在進行。第一個,我們首先把由公務預算支出的"},{"start":3538.639,"end":3564.589,"text":"過去塞在健保的我們把它移出來我們總共最近衛福部上上下下的清出來大家都毫無私心的認為這個是應該是請公務應該是可以由公務預算的這個部分我們清出了十七大項這七大項理論上如果一年一年地做三年應該會達到三百多億那假設一年的一百多億這個部分"},{"start":3565.189,"end":3580.781,"text":"就是我們清出來的那另外36%的一個建築的支出我們也希望那個都能夠純粹是給健保的這個部分也可以清除一百大概四十億"},{"start":3581.909,"end":3583.15,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":3602.132,"end":3615.78,"text":"在明年的一個高推估跟低推估都是有史以來最高的所以在總額的成長力可能有史以來最高應該可以增加到增加了309億到484億我想這樣的一個情況之下309億309億到"},{"start":3626.027,"end":3654.793,"text":"那個484億當然我們也希望國會會跟大家一起努力然後醫界也要把你要做什麼要提清楚那這樣才能夠對得起我們那個整個政府的行政部門的支持那這樣的話我再度跟各位保證一定你給我時間我們一定保證2014年點子一定0.9以上而且可以衝到"},{"start":3656.636,"end":3680.167,"text":"零點九零以上,但是可以再往上衝啊。啊這個衝多少,就是看,還有很多的因素很多啦,這包括收入面,我先另外最後一個,當然不是說只有收入面,這個包括這,然後後來中層方面,未來如果要讓健保永續,是不是我們考慮來研究補充保惠的處理。"},{"start":3681.392,"end":3694.251,"text":"那這個部分也是未來要做的事情那這個部分大概也可以讓健保更加永續但是更重要的就是我們怎麼樣讓健保的資源有效的應用抑制不必要的支出"},{"start":3695.106,"end":3718.309,"text":"所以其實衛福部很積極在推動分級醫療跟家庭意識制度剛剛幾位我敬愛的委員都是提到說看病太多次其實你只要有家庭意識制度你會少看太多次所以就會節省掉很多很多的醫療資源所以前面的實行那個家庭意識制度其實國家也在做"},{"start":3719.619,"end":3742.116,"text":"我記得十年前我跟柯文哲當時準市長也談了好幾次他想要在臺北市做家庭醫師制度我想王副市長也很清楚但是可惜都沒有完全的落實但是我們已經其實我們已經有一個家庭醫師制度社區醫療群他已經是臺灣的驕傲我們在基層醫療"},{"start":3743.377,"end":3768.283,"text":"有五個到十個的醫師組成一個家庭醫師群無論在做了很多的預防保健的工作當然我們的預防保健的成績其實是一直在維持比較好的一個成績第二個在疫情的當中我們做了很多居家的照顧病人在臺北市一天有一萬個infected的COVID的感染病人都是靠這些家庭醫師"},{"start":3770.033,"end":3778.724,"text":"他們願意用視訊去關心那個發燒的小孩他們讓他家裡不要衝急診讓台灣的大醫院的急診不要倒"},{"start":3780.153,"end":3805.022,"text":"這個就是社區醫療院家庭醫師當時對臺灣防疫的重大貢獻這個我們要繼續努力那至於低風險的一些相關的工作我們希望能夠給基層醫療來照顧讓區域型的醫院區域以上的醫院可以保持能量但是他們的給付一定要合理的提高那當然我們也會優化健保的雲端的各種減少重複用藥檢驗"},{"start":3807.123,"end":3830.16,"text":"檢查當然對於醫療服務的審查我想我們一定會合理的來抑制不當的成長滾動式的當然要滾動式來檢討藥品跟醫材的幾乎規範我想這個是趙志偉很重視的那我想這樣的一個努力不但可以讓健保永續我們馬上就可以讓可能"},{"start":3831.609,"end":3842.068,"text":"一定可以一年內這一年內就應該可以得到很好的一個健保的一個點子點子那當然更重要就是我們要"},{"start":3843.348,"end":3870.778,"text":"治療他的根本的問題,把根本的問題解決的話,我們健保才能夠永續。」所以我想我們有很多的方法可以來改善醫療的環境,改善健保,但是入法的一個爭議,我想我們是不是先可以割下來,我們先讓衛福部有一年的時間,來把這些努力,如果真的做得還不夠,我們再來檢討,這是我們衛福部的立場。以上報告,謝謝。"},{"start":3872.788,"end":3899.153,"text":"我們都可以感受到邱部長很有誠意講的真的連我自己都很感動他保證0.9以上給他一年的時間但是不管怎麼我把邱部長重點我再簡短扼壓的向大家報告一下這是很有意義的一個黨團這樣的互動跟行政部門來接下來我們開放各位委員可以發言第一位蘇清泉委員發言第二位陳金威委員發言還有還有沒有其他的委員我要做登記王振旭委員"},{"start":3900.475,"end":3928.652,"text":"侯孟凱書記長好請好謝謝謝謝主席還有我們民進黨國民黨的黨團還有邱部長我這裡要特別報告的是我們的總額不是今天才開始做我們總額已經只有22年了22年了那過去最糟糕的就是過去的這八年蔡英文執政越來越糟糕每一年"},{"start":3930.141,"end":3954.56,"text":"醫療的成長跟總額國防會核定的成長是不成比例所以剛剛一直在講0.9就很爽了很好了我跟大家報告這個事情今天如果沒處理這間的廢棄沒處理醫療又沒了再拖又是十年了然後啦所有的醫護等等就是用腳走路用腳投票都一個一個在跑"},{"start":3957.414,"end":3983.724,"text":"賴總統跟卓院長有緣的孫去各大醫院的急診室走一走、瞧一瞧就知道事情什麼情況上個禮拜我在卓院長的總知情我有問他我說院長你知道你明年會生幾次病嗎他說他不知道你會生小病還是大病他還不知道"},{"start":3984.417,"end":4001.916,"text":"在座的行政官員也沒有人知道但是我們有一個單位叫做行政院我們一個國發費他可以預測你每年要花多少錢你每年要花多少錢這個不是邱太安部長的層級所以"},{"start":4003.157,"end":4017.173,"text":"前台委員部長在做立委的時候,他提案,他的臉書寫,我都把他找出來,他講的一次最亮化的是,0.92要到一塊錢,要455億,這一下的,要怎麼算的我不知道,現在想想說,1.1塊錢要1000多億,怎麼算的?"},{"start":4023.416,"end":4051.262,"text":"什麼零點九五要七百多億怎麼算的我們再怎麼算這十年用十年就好這十年來每一年真的造成的醫療費用跟要支付的每一年都差不多四百到五百億的落差醫界這樣每一年四五百億四五百億一十年不要說二十年一十年就已經四五千億這已經超過醫界的負荷所以我們所有醫界的都打一打"},{"start":4052.782,"end":4070.476,"text":"所以現在沒有能力反過來改善勞動條件增加薪資等等那又碰到一個新冠新冠從去年截止丟到健保總額去幾戶之後就融戶之後電池大幅下降"},{"start":4072.241,"end":4094.441,"text":"今年又來了今天早上講的美國最新的KP2這個病毒又毒又強又快可能再過幾個月台灣就會洗剪台灣這種還是丟到健保裡面上個禮拜七萬個新病例再上個禮拜十萬個新病例這個全部都是丟給健保"},{"start":4096.688,"end":4122.445,"text":"丟給異界啦!」第三個我看看健保署真的是很棒他一天到晚就是請人家開菜單開開的丟給異界去承受昨天我們的石崇亮署長很英明他講了46項的達文西手術要幾副啦?誰副?健保總額副然後你跟病人收個材料費"},{"start":4123.605,"end":4137.31,"text":"這個手術好不好?這個手術非常好啊!這個手術是化時代的進步,我們當然希望那個深一點的手術,像我們心臟外科的,或者是直腸外科的、泌尿科的,當然是用這種手術,是很好啊!那很好你就沒錢啊!你用那些幼稚園的錢,要做幼稚園的事情,然後你一天天有開菜單,一天天有請客人,賣單都叫他自己賣單,然後現在說0.9就不錯了!"},{"start":4151.482,"end":4172.647,"text":"不用叫台大跟榮總的院長都不要在情緒勒索啦,台大院長情緒告訴我他也是贊成這樣一個人啦,不然你就叫他來問啦,但是他就不跟我說啊,可能會用外地啊,所以會怕啊,所以,大家都是他自己的老兵,大家都總得很了解,那我跟大家報告,現在衛福部,你要承諾說我開大隊齁,今天開開的,這件事沒處理,"},{"start":4180.478,"end":4181.418,"text":"負責負責負責負責負責負責負貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼"},{"start":4202.521,"end":4228.575,"text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員的發言接下來請陳金威委員發言請王振旭委員準備謝謝主席謝謝關心這個議題的委員謝謝我們衛福部的長官在這邊其實蠻沉重的因為我們已經走到第三次的協商了但是在這整個協商的過程越拖其實醫療是不斷的在崩壞我們這個是路人甲乙丙丁都知道的問題到底做醫事人員"},{"start":4229.455,"end":4249.526,"text":"所有的醫事人員現在非常多人在收看這個頻道做一塊錢的工作到底是不是拿一塊錢我想這是大家都同意的而且政府保障我們人民的健康保障醫事人員的工作權尊嚴還有平等權本來就是天經地義的事情"},{"start":4250.446,"end":4263.772,"text":"剛有講到說一點億元可能會造成醫療的浪費我想問一下這邊有厲害的人可以告訴我多少錢就不會造成浪費嗎幾元是不會造成浪費0.95不會0.92不會0.9一定不會嗎這邊有專家可以告訴我一點多少錢是不會被浪費的嗎那當然台大院長還有講過非常多的話之前去年有一個很好的醫療服務國際評比"},{"start":4278.919,"end":4305.778,"text":"是由全世界的商務客評比說台灣是醫療服務第一名那個時候臺大的院長很痛心疾首的說他看到這樣子的調查一點都不快樂他說如果他是一個企業的CEO早就已經被開除因為他深知這個醫療服務第一名是長期壓榨醫護的血汗所造成的在這邊我也對部長很不好意思啦"},{"start":4306.118,"end":4318.613,"text":"因為上次講了您2018年的發言以後現在也找到您2016年的發言您當時是第九屆的立法委員您在財政委員會的時候跟我們的主計總處質詢您講到說"},{"start":4321.576,"end":4338.31,"text":"主計長保障醫護人員的工作權這個就是政府最基本的責任醫護人員今天不是很惡霸的跟你要求要五毛給一塊現在是希望做一塊錢的工作可以有收到一塊錢這麼簡單您還問主計總長說請問全台灣有哪一種工作哪一個機關的薪水是用總額的當預算不夠薪水就打九折打八折有這樣的嗎"},{"start":4349.319,"end":4375.757,"text":"這是您2016年總質詢的時候問了朱澤民主計長的話我也希望可以換回您的初衷跟您的回憶因為您當時剛上任立法院的時候你告訴他說這個真的是對醫護人員、醫事人員這個總額的方式是不對的甚至您當時2016年呢也在我們的未還委員會有講到說"},{"start":4377.979,"end":4395.119,"text":"除了您通過一點議員的臨時提案您還講到說一定要打破健保的總額還給醫療公道才能發揮基層醫療我們的長照才能社區化所以其實醫界對您也是非常期盼更是有很多"},{"start":4396.06,"end":4421.56,"text":"醫界的人士是在最後號召全部的人聽到賴總統說1.1元所以我們現在還是要回來投給賴總統最後才轉向回來投票的所以大家昨天看到電視是很傷心因為投票前說1.1元然後投票完了以後請大家一定要三思我也在這邊更新一下因為台大醫院的這個急診亂象自從"},{"start":4422.961,"end":4423.702,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":4445.177,"end":4471.733,"text":"除了COVID以外還有各種病毒肆虐所以所有的醫學專家都說今年的夏天非常不平靜現在的小朋友在急診是要等三天才能住院這個是上週的新聞甚至有醫師他是坐著救護車陪小朋友到處轉院去找有沒有住院的地方可以住許多包括執政黨我現在就不說名字但是執政黨的委員也告訴我"},{"start":4472.754,"end":4499.399,"text":"今年是他們歷年來接到沒有病床的陳情已經到了失控的程度上禮拜四天前有一個新聞所有的醫師看了好痛心他是一個醫師親自目睹並且把他寫出來說他的感想這是他第一次看到在急診因為沒有病床所以有一個人他是坐在輪椅上被電擊器電擊救回來的"},{"start":4500.399,"end":4501.641,"text":"全民健康保險法第六十二條文修正草案：立法院黨團協商有關"},{"start":4519.241,"end":4523.603,"text":"我也在上次跟陳建仁前院長還有薛瑞元前部長我把他們2018年的醫療白皮書的證件拿出來再把歷年來分級醫療的比例全部整理給他們看結果過了八年到醫學中心的就醫比例完全沒有降低所以他九年前的醫療改革是沒有用的"},{"start":4543.311,"end":4559.811,"text":"好 那既然我們改革沒有用其實醫護人員就是用腳投票而已嘛他們會到別的產業去發展嗎等你真的改革完畢了其實他們已經消失了啊所以2015年蔡前總統就說要"},{"start":4560.572,"end":4567.298,"text":"要提升醫護人員點值結果是越來越低好您在2016年說要打破健保總額2018年說要達到1.1元接著賴總統也這樣子的發言為什麼我們要入法呢因為入法就是給我們最基層的醫事人員一個定心丸昨天賴總統說"},{"start":4583.592,"end":4600.843,"text":"這個可能也不是最簡單的方法但是是這個他說不一定是最好的方法但是是一個簡單的方法可是到底什麼是最好的方法是拼命的擠壓醫護血汗做功德這個就是最好的方法嗎因為過去九年是這樣可是我們"},{"start":4601.784,"end":4614.802,"text":"大家都知道這個房間裡面的大象沒有人要講出來而已因為現在的慘況醫事人員護理師的怒氣高壓工作量離職率已經到了最頂最頂的時候了"},{"start":4616.815,"end":4632.12,"text":"所以剛剛我也要呼應所有人說的我們到底是怎麼算出來一千多億又是從哪一個基準點開始算的這個也是邱部長之前問過主計總長我們是從總額比較低的年度來計算嗎那這次我們為了討論健保法"},{"start":4634.24,"end":4653.814,"text":"書面報告衛福部也提到說我們這個預算可能會影響到教育、文化、經濟、國防等等部會每一個部會應該是很積極的來為自己的部門所需要的預算來爭取才對而不是幫忙說其他的部門也要錢啊這個衛福部說要增加太多預算還是主計總署要增加太多預算"},{"start":4655.334,"end":4678.5,"text":"這個計算的標準其實大家現在看不出來到底是怎麼算出來的那當然最基層的醫護人員也跟我講到說他們看電視也很心寒因為比如說很多的執政黨的委員就在各大委員會一直在講這個速發布沒有辦法好好落實他們的工作連兒少的性剝削影像都下架不了卻每年的預算超過兩百億我們也覺得說難道"},{"start":4682.601,"end":4695.235,"text":"這些錢就不是白花而撥補給醫事人員就是白花嗎今天大家很傷心的是這個是很多人最後投票的一個動力結果卻變成好像恐嚇大家說我們如果沒有漲保費是做不到的"},{"start":4700.62,"end":4727.651,"text":"但是所有的醫事人員也看到勞動部部長說勞保是絕對不會倒的撥補就是一種改革我也想聽邱部長聽到這樣子的話是情何以堪我們今天要求一點議員入法是讓我們所有已經要崩壞的醫事人員吃下一個定心丸沒有人有辦法去計算他今年的這個營運他有沒有辦法在今年的年底拿到多少點的點值"},{"start":4728.931,"end":4736.614,"text":"未來我們還希望可以要求公務預算撥補的基金可以常態化讓政府對人民的健康照護就要正常化要常態化這個對健康我們把它當成一個投資真的希望大家不要當成一個成本"},{"start":4744.236,"end":4767.265,"text":"因為這本來就是我們照顧人民健康還有第一線我們作戰的醫事人員最基本的義務我們真的每年這樣子接到陳情苦苦的哀求哀求衛福部提供撥補提供提高點值這個是他們照顧人民的健康是天經地義而不是每年這樣子苦苦的哀求大家所以在這邊真的是很卑微的拜託謝謝"},{"start":4768.917,"end":4773.962,"text":"謝謝陳金威委員的發言接下來我們請王振旭委員請發言王國凱委員請準備"},{"start":4777.745,"end":4801.757,"text":"非常感謝主席還有委員同仁大家好我是王正旭我來自醫界剛剛不管誰提到的醫療困境我都非常非常的理解我也真的很認同醫療資源一定要再增加一定要適度的有效的擴充這個回應剛剛王昭偉"},{"start":4804.418,"end":4815.394,"text":"在開始就提到了提高總額的成長率這是必須要的而且是要有效的來提升那對我來講就是針對這樣的這個所謂用"},{"start":4819.48,"end":4843.97,"text":"典值入法是不是能夠解決目前大家感受到目前的醫療困境這是我們值得探討的問題事實上總召、柯總召也提過吳世耀幹事長也提到我們如果真的是要面對困境來解決的時候除了這個部分以外"},{"start":4845.01,"end":4867.885,"text":"會不會是還有其他更好的方式那剛剛部長也把它預計要在未來的一年裡面短中長期能夠讓醫療資源擴充的同時也去解決這些困境的部分這個我想我們就是要理性的來探討我們面對這些困境的時候那如果這樣做會有什麼可能"},{"start":4868.846,"end":4892.165,"text":"保治的問題如果其他方式的話能不能夠針對我們的困境解決可以讓這個困境得以紓解的同時又不會去衍生其他的問題我想剛剛臺大的院長總總院長他們所提出來的這些觀點大家都已經有非常多的討論我這邊再引用一位沈正郎醫師"},{"start":4893.526,"end":4905.459,"text":"沈正南醫師在《望中媒體》所提到的觀點是說只要有點子保障就會衝破健保總額"},{"start":4909.964,"end":4935.325,"text":"大家可能有不同的這些了解或者是不同觀點那我這邊就引用他的裡面的文章所表述的他說只要有點值保障不管是1.1元或1.0.95元最後都可能衝破健保預算導致健保費必須一直調漲這是他從裡面的文章所提到的那他的理由是認為這是一個賽局"},{"start":4937.438,"end":4958.155,"text":"他說:「醫師看病跟車廠修車不一樣一來醫師是跟健保請錢不是跟病人再者醫師說要檢查開藥打針病人很難掉頭就走去找另一家不像修車我覺得太貴或沒有必要就不讓你修"},{"start":4959.076,"end":4975.425,"text":"所以說醫師看病全憑職業良心不像修車會有消費者端的制衡力量因此健保必須設計一個制衡力量以免醫師為了賺錢充量做了不該做的檢查都開了沒有幫助的藥"},{"start":4977.606,"end":4997.177,"text":"我相信醫師都是憑著我們的職業道德職業良心在整治我們的病人這個是可以理解而且是大家都願意來做這樣的事情不過從賽局理論來看的話這個其實是另外一個層次的擔心我們也希望能夠"},{"start":4998.097,"end":4999.978,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路"},{"start":5027.354,"end":5053.481,"text":"這個電子入法以後導致後面的困難引起了更大的一些影響。」以上謝謝王振旭委員的發言下面有兩位登記的委員一個洪孟凱委員一個莊瑞雄委員我跟兩位委員報告一下我們先請中央健保局石署長報告完畢之後再請洪委員跟莊委員好不好因為我們一直在這邊講完我們要互動麻煩請中央健康保險署石署長請報告"},{"start":5056.654,"end":5071.573,"text":"院長還有各位委員以下健保署做一些補充的說明那麼事實上剛剛有提到總額的成長健保的總額在2015年的時候當年度總額是5908億"},{"start":5074.349,"end":5077.571,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民旅遊公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":5096.525,"end":5108.887,"text":"2015年2003年3774億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4"},{"start":5125.68,"end":5146.406,"text":"那麼至於剛剛提到這個點子低落的問題呢他有很多的原因所造成當然總而應當要適當的成長但是也有一些使用上那麼過度或不當利用的情形所以在制度的設計面上呢那麼應該要同時的考量"},{"start":5147.473,"end":5171.883,"text":"在總額成長的部分分成兩塊,一個是把原本在總額裡面的一些項目移出由公務預算,也是讓總額的餅可以變大。第二個是總額的適度成長,每年的總額成長是依據人口率的成長,"},{"start":5172.783,"end":5199.842,"text":"還有考慮人口結構因為高齡化會影響到醫療支出的成長所以也要考慮到人口結構的變化第三個會考量到經濟因素也就是這個物價的指數經濟的成長率服務成本指數所以很多的因素再加上這個服務密集度的改變那麼所預定所以這個總額的成長呢那麼也會考量到"},{"start":5200.282,"end":5213.715,"text":"在明年度也會考量到近年的通膨情形也會反映到也就是剛剛部長會提到為什麼明年的總額成長率預估的應該會是歷年是最高的"},{"start":5214.497,"end":5216.779,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．"},{"start":5243.321,"end":5269.859,"text":"佔比比較高的不是靠機器的是人力的付出比較高的支付項目一些極重難證那麼比較不願意投入的那麼應該要調高他的支付標準甚至保障點子在過去一段時間曾經也因為外科的人力的低落所以我們就手術的項目已經是保障一點一塊錢"},{"start":5270.78,"end":5288.256,"text":"所以類似像這樣的做法是我們接下來在今年六月已經成立了一個支付標準橫平性評量規劃專家小組在討論來修正那麼希望來改善醫事人員的待遇那麼第三個呢是地域上的平衡問題"},{"start":5289.957,"end":5313.115,"text":"對於一些山地離島資源不足的地區其實它的人口正在流失那如果按照原本的總額的配置它當然是會依據人口跟醫療的利用情形做配置所以因此我們也做了一些保障對於這些偏遠地區比如說今年下半年我們就對"},{"start":5314.965,"end":5337.394,"text":"離島地區他的住院點值通通加成三成30%來支付因為他的人口是比較少但是相對的投入的資本這個成本是比較高的那我們也在規劃本島的這個燈塔型的地區醫院就是考量到他的這個"},{"start":5340.475,"end":5367.144,"text":"服務的市場在萎縮,但是必須保障它能夠營運,甚至保障收入,而不是只有點值保障而已。」因此如果說我們採齊頭式的點值保障的話,那麼我們剛剛所說的這些調整的措施,能夠產生的影響跟改革的效果,那麼就會變得薄弱,那麼這個是第一個報告。"},{"start":5367.944,"end":5369.625,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":5390.179,"end":5391.059,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":5406.328,"end":5410.009,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．"},{"start":5424.474,"end":5452.721,"text":"我相信這樣也能夠一方面呢讓健保更永續的發展一方面也改善這個民眾用藥的可敬性那當然最後呢這個健保的管理的效率也要提高那麼包含如何這個抑制不必要的醫療的這個支出減少看病的次數分級的醫療減少不必要的重複用藥等等這些那麼我們也都會加強來處理"},{"start":5454.361,"end":5456.764,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":5470.3,"end":5495.78,"text":"因為延續工勞保時代的一些用藥那當時候這些只是藥品因為在工勞保時代就有給付所以他就同時納入了這個健保的給付但是至今呢也從過去的兩千多項那麼減少到現在大概是815項那麼給付我們也是逐步的在在檢討那未來我們會朝這個方向那麼"},{"start":5496.741,"end":5519.823,"text":"主義地去檢視它的必要性,包含像兒童用藥的必要性、急救,或者是一些我們公共用藥一定要有的、臨床上必要的,來保留其他的,我們會逐步地讓它退出健保。」所以大概有這幾項的說明。"},{"start":5522.125,"end":5523.567,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":5536.775,"end":5562.285,"text":"考察。」謝謝。謝謝施書長的報告。接下來請侯孟凱委員發言,請莊瑞雄委員請準備。來,院長謝謝喔。我想在我這邊來做發言的時候,我只先確定行政部門一個態度喔。今天是協商,已經走到現在了。協商的部分就是大家各自把版本拿出來,但很顯然的到現在一個多小時過去了,行政部門是不是就是完全不考慮任何的變動?這就是你們的態度是不是?"},{"start":5563.919,"end":5577.621,"text":"沒有任何的變動你們沒有版本你們就是照原有的版本所以我們現在討論的就是要嘛就是國民黨修正要嘛就是我們其他委員修正行政部門沒有任何版本就是依照原條文不變是不是這個意思"},{"start":5579.241,"end":5583.882,"text":"中華民國大學教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院"},{"start":5602.619,"end":5625.037,"text":"好來來來來好謝謝謝謝邱部長的回答直播全國人民或說關心健保改革的人大家都在看我先講一下2018年5月28號也一樣邱太元委員向衛福部次長請教為什麼點職一點議員會遭受到反對"},{"start":5629.501,"end":5650.061,"text":"臺灣健保覆蓋率高達99%支出僅佔GDP的67%這些都是建立在醫護人員的血汗付出而造成支付項目縮減支付金額下降新藥新科技無法進入健保市場等諸多原因更嚴重影響民眾的健康保障"},{"start":5651.222,"end":5668.59,"text":"2018年的邱太元委員這樣子說大家都還可以找得到我先說本席或是我們國民黨團從頭到沒有反對我們要做整體大規模的改革醫療改革本來就應該因為冰凍三尺非一日之寒"},{"start":5669.21,"end":5690.555,"text":"所以我們也針對這部分提出了附帶決議包括我們的附帶決議有民眾黨的版本或是我們國民黨的委員的版本或者是我們也希望是說未來要趕快召集跨部會的醫療改革會議提出相關的部分因為我們知道我們也沒有很紛爭認為說健保點值調到1.1元或是1.0.95元之後問題就解決了"},{"start":5695.663,"end":5715.578,"text":"我們又不是魔法仙女這樣子一變然後就什麼事都沒了我們沒有那麼天真所以我們當然希望是要跨全面的醫療改革現在執政的是民進黨如果一月十三號是國民黨當選國民黨一樣負起責任的召開全國跨部會的醫療改革會議但是因為沒有辦法"},{"start":5716.539,"end":5741.689,"text":"我們的總統候選人輸了所以現在是執政民進黨當然要負起責任可是我想強調的觀念是這完全不衝突跟矛盾健保點值提升是因為現在已經有很多的醫護人員他已經撐不住了因為他犧牲太久了而其他的改革能夠降低成本或者是增加我們新藥等等的這些部分這個本來也應該做並行不備"},{"start":5743.42,"end":5769.346,"text":"現在再講明天我就已經沒有飯吃了你跟我講一年後我要帶你去巴厘島度假那完全邏輯是沒有辦法對焦所以我覺得還是回歸我剛剛講了如果說今天行政部門態度只是我沒有要改但是請相信我一年之後一年之後我會再來做那我剛剛也聽到我們部長講如果一年之後改善環境改善爭議真的不夠再來檢討"},{"start":5772.467,"end":5797.737,"text":"還是什麼意思?就是現在討論的事情每年再來,還讓我等一年一年後真的沒做到的時候,那個時候再討論我想真的不是這樣的態度部長我不是針對您個人請我對事不對人任何一個人在現在這個職務我都一樣的態度我不是針對您個人我現在在講的其實重點在哪裡?重點是我們很多委員都講過"},{"start":5799.798,"end":5823.596,"text":"當賴清德總統候選人他在講說他提出健保點資1.1.1元的時候很多民眾是相信或以為他已經想好裁員想好方法想好解決的方式所以願意在1月13號選擇他結果1月13號選擇完他之後過了三四個月到現在居然民進黨的代表講是說那個是賴清德的目標啊"},{"start":5824.861,"end":5846.015,"text":"那個是目標啦我現在在發言可不可以不要插我的嘴剛你在發言我沒有插你的嘴你不要糾正我因為這就是中國國人看到賴清德的態度你要越講只會自己越漏氣我再來講另外一件事情啦如果我說這樣子說得過去的話那就真的印證了台灣有一個國會嘛"},{"start":5848.769,"end":5874.016,"text":"張昂三民拍謝 今天張梅拍謝就是這個道理啊我在選前跟大家講一點一點一元結果大家相信了結果選完四個月之後告訴你說那個是我的目標我的未來的方向但是我先說我不扣賴清德總統的帽子因為賴清德總統沒有親口講這句話他只有親口講一點一點一元但他沒有講說那個目標"},{"start":5874.736,"end":5890.716,"text":"所以這我不知道是不是柯總召的一個抄議可是現在我們拉回來拉回來講柯總召我們互相尊重因為大家都是三長所以你尊重我我尊重你你不尊重我我沒有辦法尊重你最後我只講啦"},{"start":5892.794,"end":5916.524,"text":"賴清德講說一點一元是一月九號的新聞他講說他最有能力解決這是賴清德的話在昨天他講說每點值一點一元賴清德表達憂心並起三思那哪一個是賴清德哪一個是我們現在的總統好所以我最後我只用剛剛我們也有黨團代表也有講臺大醫院院長的話"},{"start":5918.115,"end":5946.016,"text":"臺大醫院院長的話要講就不要只講一半臺大醫院院長的話沒有錯他講說臺大醫院院長吳明賢表示修法保障點值1.1元恐會導致過度醫療沒錯他講前半段但是請聽後半段他說建議保障點值1.0.92至0.95元朝有價健保發展讓急難重"},{"start":5947.117,"end":5969.168,"text":"急重難寒等科別從事有價醫療能夠來發揮價格保障。」所以臺大醫院院長吳明賢講的是1.0.92到0.95這也符合我們今天國民黨團所提出來的版本我們有很多委員提的版本但國民黨團提的版本是健保點值調漲成1.0.95元"},{"start":5972.59,"end":5974.958,"text":"這也是台大醫院院長我想全國醫療專業來講"},{"start":5979.332,"end":6003.618,"text":"要講說比臺大院院長來得好的可能沒幾位我絕對不是所以我相信專業我尊重專業我支持健保點值調整1.0.95元如果說今天大家各自表述民進黨的態度或是行政部門態度還是說鐵板一塊我就是不動那抱歉就沒有共識沒有共識沒有交集的話我想就依照相關意識該怎麼處理就怎麼處理謝謝"},{"start":6005.338,"end":6027.575,"text":"謝謝洪孟凱委員發言,接下來請莊瑞雄委員發言,請陳昭、鍾嘉斌委員準備。其實該怎麼處理我相信到最後會有答案,但是各個政黨尤其我看這些提案的時候,其實我也認為提案的人不夠負責任,沒有講清楚,醫療資源擴大大家都希望,"},{"start":6034.11,"end":6062.785,"text":"大家都希望。」醫療資源擴大就只有兩個方法我的頭腦裡面想得到的就兩個方法政府投錢第二個就是健保費提高就是這樣嘛 大家都很清楚嘛大家都很清楚其實各政黨我們都知道問題在什麼地方啊比如說歷任的政府裡面對這個健保他有沒有意識到這個嚴重性 都有啦阿扁執政他有沒有去提高 有啦馬英九去執政有沒有去提高 也有啦"},{"start":6063.973,"end":6090.185,"text":"提高最多的是誰?到八千多百多億的蔡英文啊。但是大家還是不滿意嗎?還是過勞嗎?因為社會進步了。社會進步都希望對醫療人員有更大的一個保障。剛曾經陳委員在談的時候,我也意識到那個問題啊。確實啊,最近我們很多民眾都會來拜託說,阿太告急診室啊,都沒有病床。這是真的。"},{"start":6090.945,"end":6117.656,"text":"但重點就是說那這個是不是連結到跟這個健保點值提高畫上等號其實也未必那你只能講說各醫院的投資裡面可能說是不是這個病床數不夠或者說因為剛好有疫情還是防疫的問題我直接把它畫上等號我是覺得那又另外一件事邱部長"},{"start":6119.688,"end":6138.339,"text":"還沒當部長以前每天在我辦公室混啊他講過什麼我最清楚啊我也問過他我講給你那幾孫子的孫子喔你都講要提高點子你的意思是要保障嗎他說不然要提高提高在我學法的立場是入法才叫做"},{"start":6139.554,"end":6157.247,"text":"保障呢?他說沒有要入法我先講清楚先講清楚也就是說他過去當醫界醫師公會的理事長他幫醫師、幫醫護來爭取權利是合理的他的身份是合理的那我有問過他說你有要入法嗎?他又跟我說沒有"},{"start":6159.38,"end":6180.71,"text":"所以也就是說你今天當了部長你就知道當家方知財米貴你就知道鹽跟米很貴很貴所以人家都給你16年18年修理但是我知道你當初不是要講立法你是要立法來保障是說要來提高這個點子這個大家要講清楚另外我一直都一直認為說是不是剛剛那個"},{"start":6187.493,"end":6204.519,"text":"那些時事署長剛剛也有提到的這些措施我們協商代表大家可以考慮一下他那一些方案可不可行不然我們只說只要要入法像蘇星成蘇委員"},{"start":6206.119,"end":6210.96,"text":"我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源"},{"start":6235.307,"end":6243.195,"text":"我們光一直給他點子所以這個部分該改革的部分我們是不是做不夠我們現在討論的只是在討論點子討論點子我們只是單純去提高醫事人員的待遇讓他覺得他滿足一點這樣而已只是在說這個而已這跟我們要去照顧"},{"start":6256.348,"end":6269.819,"text":"老百姓萬一他去到醫院去這又兩件事囉當然都有因果關係你說醫師的待遇不好醫護人員的待遇不好人照料料的要怎麼照顧老百姓但是問題是說只有這兩項你其他都沒做到所以我倒比較認同剛剛石署長提出的這一些整個我們衛福部以後你的方向是什麼但是你還是要比較具體一點啦"},{"start":6283.03,"end":6283.851,"text":"花東快速公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":6301.308,"end":6307.353,"text":"但是你們這個方案要更具體,就告訴立法院說我這樣起來是一種改革,也不用去我國家來錄影,也不用讓老百姓的健保費來提高,講一個比較聚焦的大家就聽下去了"},{"start":6317.262,"end":6337.838,"text":"以上,邱太陽我給你解套了,你們兩個在這時候我都很清楚,你是只說建設要提高,你沒說入法這我倒知道,可是問你,因為你今天是部長了,立法院當然會提出另外一個說,欸,入法是最簡單的一個保障的方式,但是像蘇清泉委員剛剛跟你提到啊,他沒堅持說什麼什麼1.1、1.0,他也有說到這,所以,是不是在把他在聚焦,把他拉近,民眾也有期待啊,但話大家要講清楚,"},{"start":6347.663,"end":6372.828,"text":"這個提案的方式是在講說,都不調高健保費的方式喔。你不告訴我,你們公共有料到一個方案出來,你說健保費快要再提高啊。醫療資源你把它投進去啦,政府本來就要擴大去投資嘛。但是呢,你就說方方面面都要去照顧到,你說到最後沒有去動到這個整個健保費,這我不相信,以上。"},{"start":6375.389,"end":6398.455,"text":"謝謝專委選委員的發言接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言陳昭之委員請準備好謝謝主席我想我跟在場多數的人一樣都是健保的受益者那當然我說多數人是因為在場有三位醫事人員還有包括我們部長的話他們其實就是這個健保受益者其中的奉獻者"},{"start":6399.508,"end":6418.288,"text":"我們的受益其實來自於很多醫事人員的付出跟奉獻所以我們今天在這個問題我們的目標就是怎麼樣讓這些我們健保受益者我們可以繼續的不要讓醫事人員是奉獻而是得到他們合理的待遇這是大家的目標那正確的目標其實透過正確的方法來達成"},{"start":6419.429,"end":6421.21,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":6446.903,"end":6470.121,"text":"它是逐年的在成長大概四點多趴但是它除以我們的服務量如果我們服務量增長的比這四點多趴來得快那我們的點值就必然下降這是必然的那當我們把點值固定的時候那我們的服務量又持續上升那為了要維持這個固定的點值我們的總額預算就必須跟著服務量同步提升"},{"start":6471.181,"end":6487.117,"text":"所以今天我們要談的是今天台灣的健保的總額幾乎是在1990年代相較於其他國家幾乎很少採用這樣的剛性的總額管理但是這個剛性的總額管理呢也讓台灣過去這20年來我們的健保呢得到了一個"},{"start":6487.877,"end":6514.616,"text":"相較之下當然雖然我們國人不滿意但是相對世界各國確實有一個不錯的成績但這個成績很難維持我試問啦我們可不可以因為點子這個東西是個事後的結果不是一個事前的決定我再強調一次點子是事後得到的就是你在前一年決定的總額預算然後當年有多少的服務量除了之後就得到一個最後的點子"},{"start":6515.476,"end":6528.465,"text":"所以點子是一個觀察我們醫事人員有沒有得到應有的待遇的一個事後的檢證指標我舉例來講我們今天可以立法去決定公務人員的考試及格率必須是10%嗎"},{"start":6530.526,"end":6551.831,"text":"我們不可能定出一個事前定出到今年的高考及格率必須10%因為每一年的考生報名多少我們不知道每一年各機關的需求緣和多少我們不知道但是我們可以從最後考生的及格率來看一下這個供需之間有沒有需要調整我舉例來講今天這裡沒有考試類院的人員在場"},{"start":6552.931,"end":6574.027,"text":"過去驗光師入法之後他作為專業人員考考的一個項目之後我們開始在民國一百零幾年開始有驗光師第一次的考試那時候第一次考試的入取率高達三十幾%以至於考試員說那太多了以後驗光師滿街跑必須控制一下第二年當到不到個位數"},{"start":6575.424,"end":6603.826,"text":"考試院他在處理專業人員考試的時候他會考量市場上需要的專業人員的服務有多少量我每年准許讓多少的人的及格投入市場這是一個事後管理的指標那我們今天把一個事後管理的指標硬生生的入法就破壞了這個指標觀察到的現象影響到必要的調整所以我們希望說今天我們用對的方法我還是抱歉 院長"},{"start":6604.606,"end":6607.211,"text":"這個問題我們用點子來作為提高醫事人員的待遇"},{"start":6616.591,"end":6634.177,"text":"這個似乎是我是覺得抓錯重點了我們應該是聽聽剛剛實務長講的對於像我們屏東很多偏遠地區的醫事人員他所做的服務是不是有得到應有的點子計算我們今天總而計算之的一個最大問題是什麼他讓提供服務的人要幫服務去做把關去踩煞車"},{"start":6635.437,"end":6645.782,"text":"我要扮演油門要扮演煞車為難醫事人員照說在我們一般的商業保險當中受服務者他要扮演煞車當我沒有那個能力出這麼多錢的時候我不會購買這些服務但是今天我們是讓服務的提供者"},{"start":6650.804,"end":6668.909,"text":"來判斷說如果提供這個服務未來我的點值下降我不要提供這個服務我們去為難服務的提供者要他去踩煞車這才是我們目前剛性的總額預算制當中因為點值的浮動所造成醫事人員為難之處所以呢我是覺得說具體來講應該是就"},{"start":6672.551,"end":6700.012,"text":"衛福部應該就前一年的點子的情況來檢討我們的總額的成長是否足夠我們服務量的增長有沒有得到不必要的一些腐爛是不是應該有所的一個節制是從服務量的抑制跟總額預算的提高來讓點子能夠保障到醫事人員合理的待遇而不是把點子控制住了然後呢我服務量我不管那我們每年每年的預算提高之後我們還是要從"},{"start":6701.013,"end":6717.891,"text":"享受健保的人身上去從健保費上來給付啊。」所以我是覺得健保費的一個調整呢他必然要有一個總額的概念去控制所以這裡呢我是覺得我們現在談論點值似乎表面上在幫醫生人員增加他的服務的他的待遇事實上錯了"},{"start":6718.792,"end":6742.134,"text":"典值只是檢討之前他所付出的有沒有達到合理那怎麼樣的合理應該從事後的服務量的增減服務量的增高的幅度以及我們總預算提高的幅度來讓他促成典值能夠在來年回到一個應有的水準那是事後的事情不是事前透過入法我們難道能夠定一個法來規定及格率是多少嗎入許率是多少嗎沒有辦法謝謝"},{"start":6744.556,"end":6764.535,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言接下來是陳昭之委員發言柯建民總召請準備拜託一下重複的就不用再說了這樣我們可以縮減時間後面還有好幾個案子謝謝請謝謝主席兩位首長就麻煩蓋關承受我知道部長宅上任兩個月那署長您是上任一年五個月但是這個"},{"start":6765.996,"end":6792.986,"text":"如果您剛剛提到的這些方法如果是可行的話我們今天不會有這麼漫長或爭議性的討論剛剛洪委員有提到就是說執政黨或是這個行政部門沒有提出相對的這個版本這個真的是不負責任那我要提的是不只是沒有動有時候還是反其道而行請概括承受第一個剛剛我有抓到兩個首長所談的一個重點關鍵資源一個叫分級一個叫資源培植但目前是反其道而行不只是不動"},{"start":6794.647,"end":6799.171,"text":"醫學中心明明根據我們醫療網計畫是兩百萬人一間醫學中心為什麼你今天繼續增加去年還是違規還有這個改變遊戲規則增加了三家醫學中心這個就是明明知道這個點值在惡化中但是醫學中心還是繼續在增加這個惡化點值第二個"},{"start":6820.609,"end":6825.95,"text":"如果病床增加會降低惡化點值為什麼你們現在還允許1.2萬床的病床正在擴建或準備擴建呢明明台灣有40%的空床那是因為缺乏護理師所以整個分級醫療你們一邊談分級醫療一邊是反其道而行那我個人看法跟蘇慶文有點一樣請不要再找醫學中心的院長來為執政長做這個"},{"start":6850.492,"end":6874.666,"text":"做答辯這是不公平的因為醫學中心相對存活的非常好病床滿意沒有缺這個護理師還導致這個急診的滿足溢出到客廳去所以這個明明全台灣有百分之四的空床他們也樂的繼續照顧輕症的這個病人所以這個對於資源配置的一分級醫療跟你們倒行逆施資源配置部分那個"},{"start":6877.73,"end":6885.925,"text":"集中南海症沒有人反對要照顧慢性病症當然這個對長期的這個很多後和病症是有幫助的但是小病症"},{"start":6886.946,"end":6914.243,"text":"你一直要裝在同一個籃子裡那一個籃子你沒有退出就一直加入那科技一直進步而且它的研發費用規格越來越高那你當然是裝不下啊所以你今天談的這些東西就算你努力如何去監測它整個一個不該做的或是不管是濫用的或是可能這個無效的醫療但是你很努力但是我們看不到成果所以今天才有這些討論所以我希望你們會很負責任的提出"},{"start":6915.163,"end":6915.563,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":6942.111,"end":6959.63,"text":"謝謝陳昭志委員的發言接下來是我們柯委員發言但是我跟黨團幹部還有柯委員報告一下柯總召發言完畢之後我會喊休息五分鐘我們在最後一次來協商看可不可以求同存異五分鐘之後我就進行處理了請柯建民總召"},{"start":6961.551,"end":6975.746,"text":"院長、各位委員同仁大概上次講完這次大家要講一輪啦那也應該面對說院長講得沒有錯我們這個問題要如何面對大家一直在合格演示然後敬畏分明然後同樣的話再講"},{"start":6978.806,"end":7004.877,"text":"尤其有些不實人物也在講那總統講的話是為目標那他一直在奚落國際初步黨當立委委員的提案那是提案而已不是入法我們今天要務實來談就是說包括蘇英文講說這個以後都用腳投票那個陳委員講過嘛一直用腳投票這不是用恐嚇的啦"},{"start":7006.645,"end":7035.857,"text":"這前幾集已經差不多結束而已我們在故事來談中華人民委員說這裡有三個議事人員不是啦,我也是啦王仲熙也是我不是只有一生出生的而且我全程見證健保民國八四年的時候那時候表決三天我都在場健保三十年包括我們現在講教改三十年也在檢討的時候我從總統也是那時候我最早去處理的所以我們總共二十二年了"},{"start":7037.34,"end":7054.031,"text":"在2013年的時候馬英九也想二代健保從交易從守則改到普通保費那個歷史大家都很清楚所以健保在三四年來面對有一些單坦白講是要檢討要改進的時候但是呢"},{"start":7055.226,"end":7071.405,"text":"並不是說一句話,你不修法,今天我昨天前委員說,欸,總舊你臉久了再講,不然不用講。那何某凱也差不多這樣的言論嘛,所以說國民黨說說,反正我們人多就表決,就是直接就修法,難道這個是"},{"start":7073.115,"end":7090.134,"text":"聽起來最直接最簡單,有辦法解決問題嗎?尤其蘇貞媛,蘇貞媛我要告訴你,你是本身是第七院的,你應該立意迴避啊,你這樣一個修法1.0了以後,你的1月1年至少增加一億多的預算,所以這個應該迴避"},{"start":7094.819,"end":7105.287,"text":"學長告訴你,你要利益迴避,第四議員改1.060,你的議員一年增加多少收入?一億多,所以這一點大家要很理性來談"},{"start":7107.769,"end":7130.376,"text":"難道只有說徽修只有這樣一條路嗎?總統之委剛才談一些蠻合理的東西但是他有一些其實有一些挑戰不要拎到而行嘛我們要談也要有分級交剛才村部長講家庭意識制度等等那事實上部長也談了十幾種方法所以今天院長講到這裡的時候每天就要"},{"start":7132.637,"end":7133.978,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":7163.317,"end":7164.077,"text":"行政委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7188.545,"end":7209.433,"text":"已經很誠意講出這些方法到底要拿出來的時候,我們應該回到比較理性的,不是今天在這裡講給醫事人員聽,但是各位,健保不是跟醫生一樣,我跟醫生我也知道,我也是不要跟他倒三天,但是你要照顧整個制度,那個破壞掉啊,這個整個制度破產破壞的時候,"},{"start":7210.313,"end":7224.308,"text":"影響首席是誰?當然就是優舍嘛!是病人嘛!全民嘛!所以這個邏輯底下我希望大家等一下公布後來副總召你現在是一句話能定天下啦"},{"start":7227.475,"end":7248.86,"text":"我們大家說好了,不要想法,但是要求黨團要怎麼做,他現在可以做,拿出來歷史出來,要談一個共同決議,這樣才是比較理性務實的啦,我這話表決是政府負責的嘛,這做表演而已嘛,我相信議事會員看看你們這樣一個表決,1.1塊錢,他們知道,這做個搞定表演,騙我們這幹什麼呢,所以我是認為啦,"},{"start":7256.081,"end":7270.653,"text":"院長你等一下休息五分鐘,你去蜿蜒鑲嵌我們對面那個,那個牌的人好不好?我們柯建民總召向衝鋒,物資衝鋒全部都橫掃了一遍以後,然後叫我來勸大家,我們休息五分鐘,大家寫什麼?不過是有聽眾而已啊"},{"start":7278.069,"end":7287.356,"text":"我覺得比較可能的可以解決的方式是共同做一個決議他能夠做得到還是要求他怎麼做因為不會存在說這次沒有說要等十年的問題好不好不要講政治語言啦"},{"start":11224.946,"end":11234.781,"text":"好謝謝謝謝各位黨團幹部各位列席的委員謝謝各位閣員跟官員大家請就座"},{"start":11256.172,"end":11284.637,"text":"好,向各位黨團幹部各位列席委員還有我們邱部長各位列席官員報告本案各黨團迄今仍然未能達成共識我們送院會處理下一案委員長等一下是哪一個送院會處理法律啊對啊不是,我要講一下好不好我們全民健康保險法修正"},{"start":11286.308,"end":11291.812,"text":"好,我先做完宣讀好不好,我們進行院會處理,接下來...黃昌昌委員請發言,柯建民總召請準備"},{"start":11295.734,"end":11303.997,"text":"我先講,你這樣沒關係,我還先講沒關係,院長你不要這樣搞我,我不會白癡你知道嗎,我先跟你講,他要講沒有關係,給他先講,結果你要先錄,我說等一下我要講完,你說好,怎麼可以這樣,你不要,我們今天才在理他,你把他當個白癡來處理啊"},{"start":11316.522,"end":11323.103,"text":"他剛剛過來說他希望去徵詢發言,我說好,他舉手了,接下來是你發言。絕無此事,我不是說下面你發言嗎?我已經宣布了柯總召請準備啊。好,黃三文。"},{"start":11341.235,"end":11368.576,"text":"謝院長我想今天臺灣民眾黨來出席這個協商主要是因為這個案子也很重要那剛剛前面大家也溝通了很久那其實最後的主決議大家文字都已經差不多了只剩下一個叫做建請衛福部應進行健保改革具體措施這個的問題那我是覺得這個案子我必須還是要代表臺灣民眾黨在今天表達我們一些這幾天的立場主要是在昨天還有"},{"start":11369.497,"end":11386.114,"text":"上次我們協商完畢有關新人民相關的基本法我今天非常的遺憾還要再來這邊說這件事我還是希望黨團在協商完成前沒有共同的意見或意見不同立場不同都很正常"},{"start":11386.374,"end":11387.735,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":11413.266,"end":11429.617,"text":"陳昭志委員也下了三個附帶決議,剛剛也跟部裡面溝通,我也覺得這件事情是一件好事,現在大概剩下最後兩個這個文字上面的處理,我是覺得如果可以達到共識那是更好,但是沒有共識的話也請大家不要再互相攻擊,謝謝。」"},{"start":11434.895,"end":11448.581,"text":"院長各位委員同仁,我們今天談論《全民健康法》已經談了兩天了,講得蠻極致的,那最後大家有誠意用婦來結議來處理,這個是第一點。主結議沒有關係,我沒有意見,你天王級主結議我沒有意見。"},{"start":11456.419,"end":11477.699,"text":"第一個我們一樣一樣來後來改土地沒有問題第二個那個文字是衛福寫的他寫建請結果國民黨就簽了結果我老爺黃昌昌委員他說不行他要加一個建請他要加一個因我老爺OK結果老回頭過來國民黨說不行要把建請發掉"},{"start":11478.92,"end":11505.282,"text":"所以簽了就純正,因為五六個簽了起來,建行那個五六簽,黃昌簽,黃昌說不行他要加因,我說OK,那我的因。這樣應該是往前比你們更進一步,結果你們現在被你們建行要撤簽,這樣怎麼公路嘛。我現在講一個問題,為什麼我一直堅持說,大家認真想想看。第一個,用修法來表決都是騙人騙局的啊。"},{"start":11505.942,"end":11527.445,"text":"然後他們講做不到的事情不要答應。好。第二個,這女漢子主席的內容,在明年六月底,六月底半年內,因為今年已經沒有預算了,明月預算半年內你要抽出七百多億,怎麼有可能?舉出七百多億也都不可能。"},{"start":11528.26,"end":11551.009,"text":"第二個明年的運算也要到年底結束有主意是結算以後才能真的數字才會出來嘛你三半年就要把叫他一定要弄出確的而已這直接不可能也還沒結算嘛所以大家想一想我們今天要做的事情是不是說滿足給哪來騙人騙己的應該很務實來解決問題才對我是比較這樣的立場一半你然後從"},{"start":11557.341,"end":11582.001,"text":"也沒有結算,不然也都是700多億,誰審訊都沒辦法,也要年底結算以後才知道嘛,所以大家想一想有沒有可能半年弄出400多億,不可能的,從大陸滿貧囊,比如說騙一屆,一屆好像表決你們贏了,修法贏了,啊怎麼啦,那都是騙人騙己的,我們物質,大家都要解決問題,"},{"start":11583.482,"end":11586.668,"text":"我以來是醫界我很清楚這些事情所以我們要誠懇來談事情比較好謝謝大家"},{"start":11591.721,"end":11617.642,"text":"我們已經做完陳玉珍委員發言羅廷委員請準備所以我覺得既然如果大家真的沒有辦法這個組結也沒辦法的話是不是我們就節省時間是不是協商不成要進入表決但是我還是要反駁柯總召所謂騙人騙己這種事情每一年財政部超徵兩三千億不就都一直在欺騙國人財政部每一年都在騙人騙己"},{"start":11619.724,"end":11638.856,"text":"民進黨、執政團隊、行政院、相關部會,覺得說這個法案通過以後有自愛難行,那就按照現在我們可以再呼籲嘛。呼籲如果又通過以後,那歡迎他申請釋憲嘛。反正現在政府對任何法案,不管是政治議題啊,或是經濟法案、民生法案,他也要釋憲嘛。對不對?那你們還是有法律這個救濟的途徑可以走嘛。"},{"start":11640.816,"end":11654.892,"text":"科總長你一直在說什麼啊這什麼討論沒有意義什麼什麼的表決這是什麼騙人騙你做這些不能做的事情那我們四年來我們過去這幾年來我們在立法院民進黨強行通過很多法案我們就不就欺騙國人好幾年"},{"start":11657.61,"end":11675.189,"text":"謝謝以上我覺得說大家節省時間了謝謝請羅廷惠發言請掌握時間謝謝好謝謝我想剛剛真的很可惜因為只差兩我想這個衛福部啊他已經帶你出這樣子了那並沒有在說半年內要擠出700因為最後他是寫114年6月30所以是整整會有一年的時間"},{"start":11677.03,"end":11695.264,"text":"因為今年醫生編完了嘛我知道但是時間點我們還是要回歸到整個內部寫的一個文章就只差兩個字那就是是不是要寫建請還是拜託一下柯總召您這麼有智慧的長者我知道您想的這麼多我知道您想的很多沒有錯沒有錯"},{"start":11698.888,"end":11722.341,"text":"但是為了醫療界,我們先趕緊定案,避免讓醫療界整個提心吊膽。」我還是要再次提到,我們現在這裡這個立法委員的這個手冊,釋字第四一九號,您就有講過,這裡面就有寫到了,立法院所為之決議僅屬建議性質,其實這裡面已經寫得很清楚,不一定要在今天的主決議還要再提到建請兩個字,所以我想,"},{"start":11723.001,"end":11730.646,"text":"我們是不是就是大和解為了醫護人員的前提我們趕緊把這個字簽下去讓整個醫療單位都安心拜託柯總召"},{"start":11753.241,"end":11772.834,"text":"我也知道預算法,預算法上面五十二條寫著預算的時候可以匯加條件及期限那違法所不符合者無效,我也可以用這個來當理啊所以我今天就是要很誠懇地講誠懇的話,那麽還騙人騙己,就這樣而已啊。你希望到國民黨黨團的,我們就是很明確我們要所謂表的言,那我們就表達。"},{"start":11780.959,"end":11787.441,"text":"我們現在謝謝邱部長跟列席衛福部所有的相關的官員我們現在接著來協商討論《證券交易法第十四條條文修正草案》謝謝邱部長 謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":11904.909,"end":11933.295,"text":"好謝謝謝謝謝謝再次謝謝邱部長謝謝啊各位黨團幹部各位列席的委員我們熱情來歡迎我們今天列席的官員首先我們邀請金管會彭主任委員歡迎您證券期貨局張局長歡迎您財政部政務次長李政務次長歡迎您負稅署您副署長歡迎您"},{"start":11935.284,"end":11939.025,"text":"勞動部理專門委員 法務部林參事"},{"start":11954.85,"end":11977.079,"text":"像各位黨團幹部報告我們並要協商國民黨團及民眾黨團凝聚證券交易法第十四條條文修正草案兩案本案為禁服二讀故無審查報告我本人在七月五號下午召集但是因為民進黨團跟金管會財政部均持反對意見沒有協商結論今天協商"},{"start":11979.588,"end":11987.452,"text":"我們現在請相關的國民黨團再提出報告好不好請台灣民眾黨團請準備國民黨團請發言"},{"start":12001.996,"end":12029.289,"text":"為了讓我們整個國家整體的勞工所得能夠全面的提升我們希望在上市上規公司尤其是在台灣的GDP總數最大的上市上規公司能夠起帶頭的作用能夠在每一年有盈餘的時候能夠類似加薪減稅的方式能夠把我們整體平均的薪資所得能夠提高"},{"start":12030.289,"end":12033.252,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":12053.609,"end":12057.03,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 、中華民國公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":12079.795,"end":12108.109,"text":"公司有盈餘的時候等於把員工當作股東這樣的一個方式來進行所以我們希望能夠提出這樣一個相對的法案能夠用一個政府立法院權力來推動讓這個員工等於就是受到這個公司特別的重視那未來對整個公司的績效方面也會有相信有逐步的再提升公正盈餘應該會再增加"},{"start":12109.206,"end":12110.571,"text":"謝謝國民黨團副總召發言接下來台灣民眾黨團請發言民進黨團莊瑞雄委員請準備"},{"start":12115.736,"end":12142.071,"text":"政交法第十四條的修正案是臺灣民眾黨提出的加薪二法的第二案那第一案已經順利通過了這中小企業發展條例經濟部後來也提了行政院版那經過三黨的協商之後順利的已經通過了很期待今天政交法第十四條也可以有個美好的結果讓這個員工可以加薪那臺灣民眾黨的版本非常的簡單第一個"},{"start":12144.076,"end":12162.685,"text":"民定要求上市商會公司要把一定的延宇作為員工的加薪。第二個加薪的幅度由主管機關就財政部跟勞動部來做一個制定那這個法在財政部已經經過初步的協商了"},{"start":12163.385,"end":12187.146,"text":"那一天包括財政部的財政委員會的這個召委羅明財跟我代表台灣民眾黨那天金管會跟金管會主委有在場財政部的這個代表也都在那天我們的結論是要求金管會跟財政部要把你們一直在強調說事實上上市上櫃公司有幫員工加薪的這個比例跟原則把它訂出來我會在今天有沒有帶過來了"},{"start":12188.487,"end":12203.843,"text":"那一天,羅明彩、趙偉跟我的建議是說,你們如果拿過來之後,如果是一個說服大家的,大家可以接受的,那三黨看到什麼方式來通過這個法案,好不好?我們一起來努力,謝謝。」謝謝張七凱委員的發言。接下來我們請莊瑞雄幹長請發言。師堯委員請準備。"},{"start":12206.406,"end":12226.853,"text":"我想我必須要再次提出來我上一次的發言我們在政交法裡面這邊要來增訂這樣的一個條文我為什麼一直認為不妥的原因在什麼地方任何公司的治理它在經營的時候它一定必須要哪怕你今年賺錢你不能拿出來分你一定要先彌補虧損"},{"start":12228.997,"end":12247.49,"text":"這個是本來整個公司法裡面也講得非常清楚你就必須要你公司你這樣比如說你要提撥一定的一個比例去為員工去調薪分派酬勞這很好啊這沒有人會反對啊可是問題是你不能今天賺了錢我前面的虧損的說我不管他"},{"start":12250.67,"end":12270.037,"text":"你這個對其他的債權人也不公平啊那這個也違反整個公司治理的一個原則啊所以為什麼公司法它必須要在它的章程裡面為什麼要明文去講說你公司必須要在你可以在章程裡面去規定你提撥一定的一個比例去幫員工調薪這是對的"},{"start":12270.737,"end":12272.719,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":12286.786,"end":12308.783,"text":"因為這個法案裡面去提到說中國國民黨的提案利益良善但是我是覺得這個部分也不能這樣太過於草率所以我希望財政部這個地方有沒有辦法去試算因為國民黨這個提案是說超過部分抵扣當年年度營業額的所得額以外可提高到百分之一百五十我們就舉台積電好了"},{"start":12313.535,"end":12321.677,"text":"臺積電不爽死了他那個稅額幾乎都不用繳了那國庫的稅損會有多少我們就舉用臺積電就好我們大家都耳熟能詳的嘛那我臺積電都在做好人就好阿捏專業協同委員等一下我會請那個金管和財政部回答您這個問題對請他們試算一下吳世堯委員請發言然後接下來請柯建民總裁請準備"},{"start":12341.686,"end":12352.052,"text":"謝謝主席今天又回來在協商證券交易法第十四條我想很清楚的我們上次也都在強調就在法體系的部分"},{"start":12353.165,"end":12380.938,"text":"這樣的一個規範也不應當放在證券交易法應當是在公司法所以大家可以去看看公司法現行的二三五至一條的規範它相對是非常的周延的而且它的處理呢它會有比較一個符合公司治理而且是現況實務比較可行的方式適用分派員工酬勞或獎金的方式來處理所以就體力上不應當放在證券交易法十四條"},{"start":12381.798,"end":12399.672,"text":"公司法的做法而且放錯地方那當然我們很清楚的要論述要用立法強制上市上櫃的公司只要有盈餘就一定要加薪這件事情他同樣我們用立法過蕩的去介入了公司治理我想這個我們要商榷"},{"start":12403.725,"end":12417.635,"text":"這個盈餘的概念有做投入的人也都很清楚這盈餘是一次性你今年賺錢有盈餘不代表明年也繼續有盈餘但是你的加薪就一次加下去"},{"start":12419.016,"end":12419.757,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":12440.374,"end":12460.665,"text":"請求要再多商榷。」那在這個等一下請金管會再做說明但是就我自己這邊做的功課也回應剛剛張祺凱委員所垂詢的事情其實以上是上貴公司他相對而言他的酬勞員工的酬勞是相對是比較優渥的啦"},{"start":12461.185,"end":12484.141,"text":"因為我們長期以來對於上市商會公司他們不管是CSR或是各種的這個介入的要求都比較高所以他們對於這個主動為員工來加薪或者是用獎金又酬勞的方式都比其他的行業更積極所以說以過去五年來講為這些非主管員工來加薪大概百分之二十一都有做了"},{"start":12484.921,"end":12487.484,"text":"上市櫃公司高達63%的上市櫃公司主動發給酬勞,比例高達6乘3加薪的幅度大於5%"},{"start":12508.143,"end":12524.809,"text":"大概有三成以上的上市櫃公司換言之沒有透過這樣的立法我們過去的政策工具就是要求上市櫃公司來多為揭露他的公司內部的這個加薪的作為其實已經有相當的成效"},{"start":12525.729,"end":12540.125,"text":"所以這個部分還是要請委員就要強制入法的方式來介入公司治理強制有盈於就要加薪而且適用稅務的優惠這個問題層面就更大了所以其實稅損絕對是很高的啦"},{"start":12543.588,"end":12568.492,"text":"稅損絕對影響很高不像我們上一次大家共同通過的中小企業條例95%的中小企業你給予他稅務優惠用這個政策工具去鼓勵他為基層的員工加薪甚至是新聘的年輕的或是高齡的這個都絕對支持可是上市上櫃公司本身就是福利收入相對優渥的一個行業那稅損絕對是很高的那絕對是幾十億"},{"start":12572.136,"end":12592.867,"text":"公約十頁來起條。」所以這樣一個制度上是不是合理公平這個我們要來回應社會所以請在野黨的委員修法利益良善啦但是如果強制修法強制要求介入公司治理我覺得這真的要聽看聽謝謝吳思瑤發言接下來請柯建民總召請發言副國級總召請準備"},{"start":12600.117,"end":12628.073,"text":"我想剛才我們兩個委員講的也蠻完整的那我再要講一個就是說第一個立法體育上面這本來應該放在公司法兩百三十五條之一裡面有關於這個公司治理章程裡面都可以處理所謂公司要怎麼樣分派營業以及這個冗天酬勞乃至於這個員工都是公司治理向下"},{"start":12629.594,"end":12638.563,"text":"那增加法那是講市場秩序的嘛就是炒作股票啊有遊戲規則這完全是六題我放錯了"},{"start":12640.007,"end":12660.257,"text":"這第一點第二點比較重要就是說其實金馬會議對商事會公司他們有賺錢有分給員工也有一些獎勵措施鼓勵措施這也包括這個有關臺灣高薪一百引導投資投資公司資金投資的問題"},{"start":12661.978,"end":12680.383,"text":"這有一些評鑑公司自己的評鑑有推廣這個台灣高清一百的指數當然我剛才有講過這個是有關於CSR那公司的永續經營上面本來就是屬於公司自己高度向下那今天我們要談的就是說這種邏輯上面有問題啦"},{"start":12682.944,"end":12702.805,"text":"我們剛剛通過中華企業發展條例三十六條之後,中華企業去聘員工,然後我們給他抵稅。那現在這個是邏輯,不一樣邏輯,上次我們大家都聯想過了嘛,那有關二十歲以下以及高齡的基層員工,我們的抵稅率會高。"},{"start":12704.606,"end":12717.79,"text":"現在同樣的在這個會期,7月12號才參與通過,同樣這個會期,同樣的我們馬上要通過就是說,公司要講加薪的情誼,用國家的資金去賭,這個是很奇怪的邏輯啊,這個我們要再鼓勵這個對財團,擁護財團"},{"start":12727.014,"end":12753.771,"text":"那剛剛剛才這個莊育雄委員所談、吳志堯所談的其實這個稅審可以出估將近一百七十八億就以去年的情形在探險的關係大家都要搞這一套的這是一個逆向的價值我們要想清楚就是說到底我們做這個事情要做什麼好"},{"start":12754.871,"end":12770.42,"text":"現在這些賺錢的公司他們為了搶人才每家公司反正這個嘉興都是政府在出的因為嘉興就是大家互相爭人才這整個市場世界都亂掉"},{"start":12771.781,"end":12797.508,"text":"我台藝電我要搶林陽科技也可以,搶整台號車,互相之間搶,我就一直把他搶起來了。這種思想自欺就整個破壞掉,我覺得大家在做這個事情的時候,好像不要用簡單邏輯,有加薪我可以給你稅,這個稅本來要交給國家的,他們國家出這些錢,"},{"start":12799.777,"end":12804.658,"text":"這樣可以嗎?大家要冷靜想一想,不是這麼簡單的邏輯。主席各位委員,大家好。"},{"start":12827.185,"end":12855.725,"text":"我想針對剛才這個本案的修正我們上次的那個想法是說其實現有的機制若根據公司法二三五之一條的部分所謂的公司就有個義務必須要章程裡面必須清楚地定名盈餘的一定比率要分配員工酬勞而且有虧損要撥撥我想公司法會這樣定有它的考慮點因為主要為什麼它是發給酬勞而不是加薪"},{"start":12856.485,"end":12878.481,"text":"一加薪大概是個永續性的假設一年的加薪但是呢一年的盈餘但是他加薪會是永續的所以他有考慮到這個問題所以他才用發給酬勞那酬勞可以是一次性的今年盈餘好今年就發那這部分是比較吻合整個公司的管理跟整個經營策略上的考量"},{"start":12879.221,"end":12879.681,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":12903.533,"end":12919.141,"text":"作為經營績效的考量並不是說真的可以拿作現金的分配所以它是比較複雜所以我們在過去的尊重公司在經營上面的考量其實原來這些條文可能跟那個加薪這個利益我們都是支持只是說我們因為跟"},{"start":12919.901,"end":12935.744,"text":"跟公司法二三五條之一的是重複度蠻高,假如意思是一樣的話,其實公司法的考量會更符合這個實務上的考量,那過去可能會認為說比如中小企業加薪,那我們這上市櫃公司是不是也加薪,那"},{"start":12936.826,"end":12956.697,"text":"我們畢竟上市位公司是台灣的櫥窗我們總共上市位公司加起來大概一千八九百家我們也看到過去金管會基於我們在管理市場我們對這個台灣的櫥窗產業也給予很多看似強制或是半強制的方式揭露充分的資訊比如他們的平均薪資"},{"start":12957.998,"end":12981.622,"text":"所以在過去呢這些廠商們他在過去也都是非常系統性自願性的加薪我這邊有幾個數字跟大家報告一下就是比如說我們上次為公司假設各位想想看五年前他們平均的薪資非主管喔平均薪資大概一百萬左右然後呢到五年後他們平均是一百二十三剛剛就是整個增幅大概有二十一點三八"},{"start":12982.222,"end":12997.682,"text":"上貴公司條件稍差一點比如說七年前他大概有七十三萬那現在呢大概有八十七萬左右這個增幅也大概16%所以過去我們上市貴公司其實上都有常態性的加薪畢竟他的條件跟那個中小企業是稍有不同"},{"start":12998.183,"end":12999.544,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例"},{"start":13022.216,"end":13023.437,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":13043.558,"end":13065.717,"text":"謝謝彭主委的說明接下來我們請財政部政務司長李次長請發言主席還有各位委員大家好那財政部這邊說明一下基本上就是剛才其實從彭主委的說明我們也知道就是上市會公司他們其實都是依據那個公司的營運績效還有員工的表現以及就是員工的年資他們會適時來為員工加薪"},{"start":13069.359,"end":13093.791,"text":"希望能夠瀏覽優秀的人才還有提升企業的競爭力。」我們這邊也有一個數據就是112年度為例大概有半數的上市櫃公司他們平均的員工薪資費用都高於上年度也就是有一半以上的上市櫃公司都有替員工加薪而且大概有30%的上市櫃公司他們的薪資變動的幅度大於5%"},{"start":13095.032,"end":13095.512,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13114.466,"end":13116.387,"text":"公司治理企業的ESG資訊接入查詢"},{"start":13134.133,"end":13150.461,"text":"以一百一十年一百一十一一百一十二這三個年度我們去跑了前二十大的公司前二十大這個加薪幅度比較高的公司其中呢以一百一十一年度為例"},{"start":13152.122,"end":13164.513,"text":"委員提到的這家公司,它其實就替員工加薪了439億元,加薪的比例比上年度成長高達7.46%。如果我們現在用國民黨團的提案來設算的話,它一年的稅收損失,"},{"start":13174.102,"end":13179.328,"text":"政府稅收獎勵38億元一家公司獨享利益同年度統計前20大公司稅損61億元"},{"start":13191.801,"end":13216.66,"text":"就20家公司他們有替員工加薪的情況然後按照這個國民黨團的提案來看的話大概就會有61億的稅損那如果以110年度來算的話剛剛我們也算過20大也是一樣我們也是去公開資訊觀測站上面看他們的ESG的資訊然後去涉算的結果前20大大概他的稅損就是101億元"},{"start":13220.143,"end":13221.584,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」、中華民公路建設特別條例草案。"},{"start":13245.484,"end":13246.245,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13269.718,"end":13270.759,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13284.383,"end":13300.058,"text":"公司的盈餘來給員工做加薪,這個部分可以減稅。」這是什麼意思呢?加薪一萬塊,他的盈餘本來要,本來,加薪一萬塊,他本來要繳25%2500塊錢的稅,他是去抵扣2500塊的稅,但是7500塊還是要公司本身來出的。"},{"start":13310.688,"end":13312.069,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":13322.681,"end":13350.341,"text":"為什麼台灣有台積電台灣護國神站的奇蹟當時就是在公司盈餘分紅的時候給員工的時候早期啊都是直接公司賺了多少百比例的現金盈餘發給員工但是我們為了國家為了要留住人才科技人才所以當時的台積電並不是說一個員工你可以平均分到十萬塊就十萬塊給你"},{"start":13351.562,"end":13379.5,"text":"而是分成十張股票的一萬股股票本來是你分十萬塊的變成分十萬股的每股十元結果在這種情況之下即便是它的股價不是十塊錢它是一百塊錢但是十倍的利益給它的員工所以大家都願意留下來當時台灣就是因為這樣子而留住了這麼多的人才才有今天的台灣奇蹟當時大家想這租稅公不公平"},{"start":13380.1,"end":13381.861,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13401.17,"end":13419.033,"text":"對於這個加薪減稅的部分或者是徵聘員工減稅的部分我們兩個黨都有共同的想法現在我們再提修正動議為擴大鼓勵上市上櫃公司為員工加薪上市上櫃公司年度盈餘應提撥一定比例"},{"start":13419.674,"end":13441.268,"text":"作為員工加薪公司提撥稅後營餘為員工加薪,超過一定比例,超過的部分可以抵扣當年營利所得,等於百分之七十五還是要公司來出。政府稅損的部分只有四分之一,所以員工加薪的部分是可以提高整體的士氣。」"},{"start":13444.109,"end":13460.684,"text":"這個莊惠雄幹事長講的確實有他的道理我們在這裡也建議啦那如果說如果防範今年有賺錢那分配那明年有賠錢虧損情況怎麼辦所以我們現在就是說加上去以後怕減不下來"},{"start":13461.325,"end":13462.085,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13476.613,"end":13492.201,"text":"大陸跟公司法兩百三十五條之一有類似的情況但是呢我們希望上市商會公司帶頭來那又剛剛又提到所謂台積電的問題台積電本身就是台灣最高薪的族群所以我們也希望說現在我們授權"},{"start":13493.502,"end":13513.952,"text":"前項有關上市上櫃公司為員工加薪這相關事項由主管機關惠同財政部勞動部定之。」我們授權給主管機關來定。這授權什麼意思就是說如果說一些非常肌肉的上市公司上市櫃公司他們年收入就已經超過啊超過啊"},{"start":13514.172,"end":13516.873,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13538.797,"end":13540.078,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"},{"start":13561.382,"end":13588.499,"text":"中嘉賓委員請發言然後林國成委員請準備好謝謝主席我想關於提高受雇者的薪酬這是各黨不分黨派的共識常年以來台灣的企業在給予員工的薪酬部分比例偏低甚至少於董事的薪酬這已經是一個不爭的事實但是問題還是在於我們對的目標要用正確的方法"},{"start":13588.999,"end":13596.741,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案：立法院黨團協商有關:「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案．並優先開放大陸觀光之限制草案．並優先開放大陸觀光之限制草案．並優先開放大陸觀光之限制草案．並"},{"start":13613.965,"end":13629.285,"text":"那公司法跟政交法裡面的大部分的用詞大概有幾種公司法第196條第一項是寫董事之報仇他是寫報仇然後呢公司章程呢在有些公司章程裡面他會把報仇呢寫為仇老"},{"start":13630.106,"end":13652.456,"text":"那事實上在我們本條正交法第十四條當中他寫的是酬金就是在第五項寫的是酬金那其實我們都知道報酬、薪酬、酬金、酬勞其實在法律上他是有區分的那如果我們是用一般的用詞叫做酬金或者是報酬其實對於公司來講要分配給員工這個報酬的範圍就相當廣"},{"start":13655.357,"end":13684.02,"text":"廣道包括勞動部所說的經常性的薪資包含的什麼加班費、獎金這些之類的這些在我們的法律用詞上都可以統籌在報酬這個字眼當中但是第三個我要再提醒一下我們的證券交易法第十四條這幾年來修過了三次101年、107年跟109年最近一次的修法就是增加了這第五項那這第五項就是呼應了大家的意思你看看它的修正條文當中我們先看本條的第四條"},{"start":13684.921,"end":13703.708,"text":"第一、二、三、四、五,請看第五項。」最近的是修法呢?這整個條的內容是在講財報的制定方式基本上它是一個財報當中規定上市會公司它必須接入的公司資訊在財報上所以它特別要求在第五項說到說必須"},{"start":13705.209,"end":13726.667,"text":"依照主管機關規定接入公司薪資報酬政策、全體員工平均薪資及調整情形、董事及監察人之酬金等相關資訊。」也是幸虧有了109年有多了這第五項之後,我們現在去金管會去查這些上市會公司,我們可以明顯的看到,我在上一屆的時候,曾經查過,"},{"start":13731.391,"end":13758.204,"text":"有些上市位公司呢,它的盈餘不見得比別人多,但是它的董事及監察人的酬金呢,成長的幅度遠高過其全公司非主管的員工的平均程度。」那這就是我們財報當中要介入的,什麼叫做肥貓,什麼叫做公司治理的敗壞,什麼叫做公司的董事董事長幫自己加薪,就是在這一條裡面被介入,但是"},{"start":13759.107,"end":13777.668,"text":"比較可惜的是說這一條它只有規定資訊的接入並沒有賦予主管機關在資訊接入之外要給予它強制性的作為所以我是覺得說這一條的法條增列第六項或者是修正動議的第六項跟第七項用意良好但是呢放在第十四條裡面比較有點"},{"start":13779.977,"end":13780.577,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案"},{"start":13805.709,"end":13827.586,"text":"所以我是覺得透過資訊的揭露,我們或許可以達到類似的效果。不然的話,就回過剛剛吉偉委員的說法,如果希望透過對公司強制的盈餘做分配,應該回歸到公司法裡面,因為公司法裡面有明顯的規定,公司的法人對於哪些人他的一個給付的義務,譬如說對股東,對債權人,"},{"start":13831.594,"end":13847.481,"text":"對於員工對於這些人他是有一個給付的順序的比如說在公司裡面我們對於公司欠國家的稅金是要優先給付的所以我希望說我們這個條文用意很好但是考量到第四十條一年的修法他是以資訊接入為主"},{"start":13849.122,"end":13878.132,"text":"是不是我們可以用一個什麼方式把大家所要的目的讓上市公司受到這個資訊接入受投資大眾監督的方式來執行而不是用強制的規定規定在一個財報的一個項目當中就事實上是財報的接入啦如果要規定的比較強制力是在公司法裡面以上建議謝謝鍾嘉賓委員發言跟各位黨團幹部報告我們現在不是不是每一個我都會因為我要跟大家報告八點之後開院會"},{"start":13880.171,"end":13909.303,"text":"院會還在繼續開啊?把你先休息所以我們等一下還要去開院會第二個我們後面還有好幾個法律條文第三最重要的因為有的是新過來做的委員黨團幹部比較有經驗我們都會討論到差不多聽完行政部門報告之後一定會休息五分鐘希望能求同存異所以嘉賓委員我絕對不是故意催促你剛剛沒有!傅坤吉委員發言我也說謝謝謝謝就是說拜託重點講出來之後了解就好接下來林國成委員發言"},{"start":13910.143,"end":13926.973,"text":"副 柯建民總召 請 副院長等一下 八點開什麼院會 副院長當一下 他不在 我以為現在已經沒有案子了 已經念完 沒有了 可以了吧柯總召"},{"start":13928.524,"end":13951.049,"text":"我 我 我 我絕對不是要催各位因為我們後面還有好多條文我們希望能夠效率進行等林國聖委員發言完柯總召發言完我們就暫停我們協商五分鐘看可不可以大家能達成共識好不好這是一個必要的問題林國聖委員發言好 請"},{"start":13954.17,"end":13981.443,"text":"謝謝院長我想首先啊剛剛大家都一直在提公司法兩百三十五條等等加薪的有關規定我要跟各位委員跟我們主管機關報告在這個部分效果是不髒的你們所投的資料沒有一家公司法裡面的公司賺的錢分紅給員工沒有所以這一點我要替勞工講一下話第二個"},{"start":13982.503,"end":14005.241,"text":"公司賺錢幫員工加薪天經地義之事勞工說實在夠可憐但是為什麼要提在證券交易法這個法條很簡單因為這裡是一完整的加薪完整制度第二"},{"start":14006.182,"end":14023.974,"text":"還有會計制度是上市上櫃是要經過會計制度嚴審而產生的決議所以這點東西就請主管機關也不要去擔心那另外財政部啊也說這個稅損的問題這點我認為不太苟同"},{"start":14027.677,"end":14053.932,"text":"但是你算出來是這樣那我在看國民黨跟我們也把這個稅的部分我們做適度的調整所以我在這裡最後因為時間的關係我要特別自動自花的加薪是完全不可能的可是你如果依法有計放在法令當中那加薪的機率是會比較高的所以這點特別說明"},{"start":14056.919,"end":14079.205,"text":"謝謝林國成委員發言,接下來請柯建民總召發言,結束之後休息五分鐘,請。針對林國成委員講的,供需賺錢,分給員工加薪,天經地義,這我認同,但是沒有所謂說公司會自動自發,很多公司都自動自發,否則的話他怎麼要跟人家競爭呢?"},{"start":14080.899,"end":14082.622,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案"},{"start":14088.364,"end":14113.306,"text":"坦白講比例非常高他們這幾年來統計他們日中會加薪嘛我今天講一個邏輯就是剛剛副委員講的你們不管說政府組出25%或多少那公司也要出不管多少錢百分比多少錢都是從政府的錢去補貼給公司去加薪這是不對不管這個多少這個是邏輯的問題"},{"start":14114.887,"end":14141.296,"text":"不過是政府要補助多少,但是這是企業自己要出的,企業本來要出的。所以我們今天要講這個東西,中華企業法案條例上面就是說你是去研工,然後我們給你抵稅錢,你這個沒有增加研工,也沒有增加交易力嘛,只是給他加薪,加薪本來是公司當成每一家公司在面對產業競爭嘛,包括顧問卿委員所講的,就是說研工分農配股,"},{"start":14142.136,"end":14157.074,"text":"台南科技MG半導體產業之所謂成功所以我很清楚我這科技MG服務十年啦他們在講MG所有產業成功是將當年政府蓋出來五年免稅然後一直免稅然後還有出產業生意條例所以是這樣起來的"},{"start":14160.578,"end":14188.884,"text":"指數不瘦 土地指數不瘦所以他不必付他很多的資本支出那我們野花能力很強 政府一直在鼓勵 這樣起來的但是呢 這裡面也有很重要的制度 就是婦農配股制度就好像STAR OCEAN有沒有 也有用STAR OCEAN 也有用婦農配股但當年婦農配股十塊錢 現在已經沒有了所以夫婦企業委員在講的十塊錢 當然已經沒有了現在已經要到市值嘛 那可以給你反科列預算 列費用"},{"start":14189.844,"end":14208.135,"text":"所以這一套的國際政府優惠已經導致被打破了所以我個人看法我只是回到一個問題啦公司把觀光加薪政府給倒出去這邏輯不管多少這邏輯對不對而已啦就只要問這個問題嘛謝謝柯總召的發言我們現在休息五分鐘請大家"},{"start":14217.638,"end":14221.182,"text":"討論一下看可不可以能達成一個共識。休息完之後請洪森漢委員發言。」"},{"start":16477.258,"end":16501.388,"text":"好謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位列席委員各位官員請坐現在我們念一下黨團協商結論時間一百一三年七月十五日星期一下午三十地點紅樓三零二會議室協商主題院會進覆二讀協商國民黨黨團臺灣民眾黨黨團分別凝聚正確交易法第十四條條文修正草案等"},{"start":16502.088,"end":16528.235,"text":"二案協商結論第十四條照協商條文通過。」協商主持人協商代表大家請到時候再發給大家看一下那個我知道報告黨團幹部跟列席的委員因為本案已經有了共識後面下面有登記洪森安委員跟沈柏洋委員還要發言嗎?不必因為我怕他"},{"start":16537.265,"end":16543.287,"text":"謝謝長者柯建民總召的建議。本案已經有共識,我來宣讀一下協商結論。基於所有的黨團幹部,請仔細聽。明天早上九點繼續在302會議室,我們進行草野協商。"},{"start":16553.03,"end":16567.2,"text":"明天早上九點我們繼續在這裡進行草野協商。」那我再一次感謝金管會彭主委財政部理事長各位列席的官員辛苦大家一天了也謝謝所有黨團幹部各位委員同仁我們現在散會脫離現場不然等一下要對話"},{"start":16626.076,"end":16626.259,"text":"公路建設特別條例草案。」"}]}},{"id":"16102","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16102","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609427ab58cc0b95e2d2847e322e88d052528aaa308df9ea37381a36a5af648137a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-07-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-07-15","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-07-15T08:30:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-15T10:15:00+08:00","duration":6243,"影片長度":"01:44:03","委員發言時間":"08:30:57 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營業人以網際網路或其他電子方式﹐開立傳輸電子發票﹐為因第32條之一第一項規定實現﹐或為據實將其因開立電子發票﹐與相關必要資訊及滿收人載具識別資訊﹐傳輸至財稅務電子發票整合服務平臺存證者﹐除通知限期補正位﹐並得署新台幣1500元以上15000元下發還﹐"},{"start":5779.154,"end":5779.978,"text":"借其為補證或補證不實者的暗刺處罰"},{"start":5785.134,"end":5813.576,"text":"第50條納稅義務人與其繳納稅款者應加徵致納金與30日人為繳納者處以送強制止行為並得停止其營業前項應納稅款應自致納期限屆滿致次日期致納稅義務人自動繳納或強制止行徵收繳納之日址依各年度1月1日郵政儲金一年期定期儲金固定利率按日計算利息以並徵收宣讀完畢"},{"start":5815.799,"end":5827.507,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文均已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議加值型及非加值型業稅法徵定第48條之2條文並將第6條之1、第32條之1及第50條條文修正通過"},{"start":5839.994,"end":5858.181,"text":"報告委員會現在我們進行報告事項第7案完成立法程序後發言登記第一號黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員未到場我們現在請登記第二號林楚英委員發言發言時間兩分鐘"},{"start":5876.298,"end":5889.994,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位大院同仁現在我們在消費的時候最常被問的就是請問你有桶邊跟載具嗎我們在買東西的時候都會拿出手機來刷行動發票的載具"},{"start":5891.495,"end":5896.961,"text":"雲端發票的推行是在2000年的時候開始試辦到2006年的時候正式上路了至少20年過去根據財政部的資料顯示在2023年當中開立的電子發票有99.3億張顯示這項的政策已經成熟了"},{"start":5909.975,"end":5926.143,"text":"但是大家可能都遇到同樣的狀況就是當你用手機來掃描有關於雲端發票的時候因為你手上沒有一張發票因此消費者如果說在發生爭議的時候就會非常擔心手上沒有憑證"},{"start":5927.023,"end":5945.943,"text":"原因在哪裡?就是因為我們現行的法規並沒有規定就是營業人在什麼樣的時間之內要緊速的來上傳我們的雲端發票言下之意雖然沒有一張實質的發票你常常為了保障自己的權益你會又會要求一張紙質的收據"},{"start":5946.804,"end":5965.878,"text":"那麼這就破壞了雲端發票的美意非常開心我們今天在加值型跟非加值營業稅當中本席其實提案就是希望在48小時之內能夠緊速的要求營業人上傳雲端發票相關的內容跟相關的資料"},{"start":5966.738,"end":5986.809,"text":"那麼這一次通過的部分我們給了財政部一個實質的法規要求財政部在行政法規當中要求營業人把電子發票法規的關鍵的法規把它補強也就是確保營業人在一定的時間之內要上傳我們的發票"},{"start":5987.87,"end":5996.776,"text":"的內容這樣對於消費者在未來使用我們雲端發票的時候能夠更具有安全性這就是扶國立民的法案"},{"start":6009.601,"end":6024.296,"text":"委員財政委員會於113年6月26日舉行全體委員會議審查本案會議由郭肇景委員、古文擔任主席財政部莊部長翠雲等應邀列行書名被詢由會員與聽取書名詢討及大體討論後對法案進行審查"},{"start":6027.439,"end":6052.67,"text":"經在場委員抽片公通及寫生後將群案審查完略：原金決議並按領據審查報告提報院會本案與院會進行二讀前：不需交由黨團寫生：院會討論本案時：由郭昭吉委員國文補充說明宣讀完畢本案請昭吉委員、郭國文委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議：不需再交由黨團寫生請問院會有異議"},{"start":6055.936,"end":6057.698,"text":"沒有異議本案進一審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論所得稅法請宣讀第88條"},{"start":6063.052,"end":6090.604,"text":"第88條納稅義務人有下列各類所得者應有扣繳義務人遇及複試依規定之扣繳率或扣繳辦法扣取稅款並依例92條規定繳納之依公司分配與非中華民國境內居住之個人及總機構在中華民國境外之營利事業之鼓勵合作者及他法人合夥組織或獨資組織分配與非中華民國境內居住之社員、出資者"},{"start":6091.244,"end":6105.811,"text":"合夥人或獨資資本主之隱於機關行政法人、團體學校、事業破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人因管理處分信託財產所給付之薪資利息"},{"start":6106.411,"end":6130.103,"text":"租金、佣金、權利金、競技、競賽或機會中獎之獎金或給予、退休薪資、減費、退職金、離職金、終身付、非屬保險及付之養老金、告辦或撿取獎金、結構型商品交易之所得、執行業務者之報酬及給付在中華民國境內無固定營業場所或營業代理人之國外營利事業之所得"},{"start":6131.383,"end":6149.053,"text":"3、第25條規定之盈利事業1、第98條之一之規定應由營業代理人或給付人扣繳所得稅款之盈利事業所得4、第26條規定在中華民國境內無分之機構之國外影片事業"},{"start":6149.853,"end":6168.5,"text":"其在中華民國境內是盈利事業所得稅獨資合夥組織之盈利事業依第71條第二項或第75條第4項規定辦理結算申報或決算清算申報有應分配與非中華民國境內居住之獨資資本主或合夥組織合夥人之盈餘者"},{"start":6170.141,"end":6199.044,"text":"應於該年度結算申報或決算、清算申報法定截止日前由扣繳一物人依規定之扣繳率扣取稅款並依第92條規定繳納其後實際分配時不適用前項第一款規定前項獨資合夥組織之盈利事業依法辦理結算、決算或清算申報或於申報後辦理更正經基準機關核定增加盈利事業所得額或為依法自行辦理申報"},{"start":6200.204,"end":6223.196,"text":"經基準機關核定盈利事業所得額至增加獨資資本主或合夥組織合夥人之盈餘者扣減義務人應與核定通知書送達之日起算30日內就應分配與非中華民國境內居住之獨資資本主或合夥組織合夥人之新增盈餘依規定之扣繳率扣取稅款並依第92條規定繳納"},{"start":6225.137,"end":6232.062,"text":"前三項各類屬的支扣繳率及扣繳辦法由財政部擬定報請行政院核定宣讀完畢"},{"start":6239.161,"end":6263.934,"text":"第89條前條各類所得稅款及控銷義務人及納稅義務人如下一、公司分配與非中華民國境內居住之個人及總機構在中華民國境外之營利事業之股利合作者分配與非中華民國境內居住之事員之營餘其他法人分配與非中華民國境內居住之出資者之營餘獨資合夥組織之營利事業分配"},{"start":6266.795,"end":6291.83,"text":"互因分配與非中華民國境內居住之獨資資本主或合夥組織合夥人之盈餘其共享義務人為公司合作社其他法人獨資組織或合夥組織納稅義務人為非中華民國境內居住之個人股東總經貿在中華民國境外之盈利事業股東非中華民國境內居住之社員、出資者合夥組織合夥人或獨資資本主"},{"start":6295.072,"end":6310.226,"text":"二、薪資、利息、租金、佣金、權利金、執行業務報酬、競技、競賽或機會中獎獎金或給裕、退休金、資遣費、退職金、離職金、終身奉付屬保險及護士養老金、告發或擷取獎金"},{"start":6311.046,"end":6332.948,"text":"結構行商品交易之所得及給付在中華民國境內無固定營業場所或營業代理人之國外營利事業之所得其公交業務人為機關、行政法人、團體學校事業、破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人、納稅業務人為取得所得者"},{"start":6333.969,"end":6351.543,"text":"三、依前條第一項第三款規定之營利事業所得稅扣繳義務人為營業代理人或給付人納稅義務人為總機構在中華民國境外之營利事業四、國外影片事業所得稅款扣繳義務人為營業代理人或給付人"},{"start":6352.584,"end":6375.503,"text":"納稅義務人為國外影片事業扣繳義務人為履行扣繳責任而有他先不明、行蹤不明或其他情勢之無從追究者基專機關得盡向納稅義務人證收之機關行政法人、團體學校事業破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為接受託人每年所給付依檢調規定"},{"start":6376.624,"end":6399.854,"text":"因扣繳稅款之所得及第14條第1項第10類之其他所得因未達其扣點或因部署本法規定之扣繳範圍而未經扣繳稅款者應於每年1月底前將受理人姓名住址、國民身份證統一編號及全年給付金額等依規定格式列報申報主管集中機關"},{"start":6401.154,"end":6418.57,"text":"兵於2月10日前將免扣繳平單填發納稅義務人每年1月與連續3日以上國定假日者免扣繳平單申報期間延長至2月5日至免扣繳平單填發期間延長至2月15日至但"},{"start":6419.751,"end":6446.272,"text":"機關行政法人團體選項事業由解散廢紙合併轉讓財政變更或破產管理人處理之破產事務經法院裁定終結或終止時應隨時填發免扣繳平單並於10日內列單申報主管集中機關宣讀完畢第89條照審查會條文通過請宣讀第92條"},{"start":6447.765,"end":6463.992,"text":"第92條第88條各類所得稅款之扣繳義務人應於每月10日前將上1月內所扣稅款向國庫繳清並於每年1月底前將上1年內扣繳個納稅義務人之稅款數額開具扣繳平單匯報該管基準機關查核並於2月10日前將扣繳平單填發納稅義務人"},{"start":6473.476,"end":6491.894,"text":"每年1月與連續3日以上國定假日者扣繳平單匯報期間延長至2月5日止扣繳平單填發期間延長至2月15日止但機關行政法人、團體學校是也有解散和廢止合併轉讓"},{"start":6493.455,"end":6505.08,"text":"財政變更或破產管理人處理之破產事務經法院裁定終結或終止時扣繳義務人應隨時就以扣繳稅款數額填發扣繳評單並於10日內向該管集團機關辦理申報"},{"start":6509.162,"end":6525.358,"text":"非中華民國境內居住之個人或在中華民國境內無固定營業場所之營利事業由第88條規定各類所得時扣繳義務人應於代扣稅款之日起算10日內將所扣稅款向國庫繳清並開具扣繳評單向該管制人機關申報核驗後發給納稅義務人"},{"start":6532.525,"end":6556.465,"text":"戴扣稅款之日起算10日內與連續3日以上國定假日者所扣稅款繳納、扣繳平擔申報、核驗及發給期間延長5日總機構在中華民國境外而在中華民國境內有固定營業場所之營利事業其貨配之股利或盈餘轉用前項規定宣讀完畢"},{"start":6559.017,"end":6580.496,"text":"第92條 照審查會條文通過請宣讀第94條之一第94條之一依第89條第三項本文第92條第一項本文及第92條之一規定應填發免扣繳平擔扣繳平擔及相關平擔之機關、行政法人、團體學校、稅業破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者"},{"start":6581.477,"end":6603.036,"text":"信託行為之授托人及其他扣獎義務人以依規定期限將憑單申報該管計專機關且憑單內容符合下列起行者得免填發憑單與納稅義務人一、納稅義務人為在中華民國境內居住之個人在中華民國境內有固定營業場所之營利事業"},{"start":6605.038,"end":6630.752,"text":"機關、團體、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人二、扣減或免扣減資料經基準機關納入結算申報期間提供所得資料查詢服務三、其他財政部規定之情形依前項規定免填發平等與納稅義務人者如納稅義務人要求填發時仍應填發宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第110條"},{"start":6635.5,"end":6652.538,"text":"第111條政府機關行政法人或公立學校違反第89條第三項規定為一線貨櫃拒止申報或為一線田發免扣繳平攤者應通知其主管機關或監督機關督促其依法辦理"},{"start":6653.659,"end":6680.71,"text":"前項以外應宣報及填發免扣繳平擔者違反第89條第三項規定為一線或未去時申報或為一線填發免扣繳平擔者除1500元以上2萬元以下罰款並通知現期補發或填發屆期為補報或填發者除3000元以上9萬元以下罰款宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第112條"},{"start":6682.847,"end":6704.019,"text":"第112條納稅義務人於縣繳納稅款者應加徵至納金於30日人為繳納者其為營利事業者其身機關得停止其營業至納稅義務人繳納之日之前項納稅款應自至納期限屆滿這次日期至納稅義務人繳納之日之"},{"start":6705.76,"end":6720.985,"text":"依第123條規定之存款利率、按日加借利息一併徵收本法所規定之停止營業處分由機身機關執行並由警察機關協助之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第114條"},{"start":6723.072,"end":6750.008,"text":"第114條扣繳義務人有項鍊情勢之一者﹐分別依各該款規定處罰一、扣繳義務人為依第88條規定扣繳稅款者﹐處限刑辭令補繳應扣未扣或短扣之稅款﹐及補報扣繳平單外﹐並按應扣未扣或短扣之稅額﹐處一倍以下之罰款﹐其未於限期內補繳應扣未扣或短扣之稅款﹐或不按時報"},{"start":6751.368,"end":6774.006,"text":"扣繳平擔者應按應扣未扣或短扣之稅額處3倍以上之罰款二、控繳誤認以依本法控繳稅款而未依第92條規定之期限案時填報或填發扣繳平擔者處限期責令補報或填發外處1500元以上2萬元下罰款"},{"start":6775.628,"end":6798.55,"text":"經計專機關限期責令補報或填發扣繳評單扣繳誘人未依限案時補報或填發者處3千元以上或4萬5千元相發還扣繳誘人於第92條規定期限繳納所扣稅款者應加徵指納金宣讀完畢法審查會條文通過請宣讀第144條之3"},{"start":6800.495,"end":6814.632,"text":"第114條之三 營利事業於中華民國106年12月31日以前分別於股東、社員或出資者之87年度或以後年度之股利或營餘為依第102條之一第一項規定之期限"},{"start":6816.994,"end":6832.291,"text":"依規定格式按時填報或填發鼓勵平擔者除限期責令補報或填發外除1500元以上3萬元相罰還經寄生機關限期責令補報或填發鼓勵平擔"},{"start":6833.592,"end":6846.582,"text":"審議案８本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本"},{"start":6859.233,"end":6864.278,"text":"處限期責令補報或填發為處1500元以上3萬元下罰款經基金機關現行責令補報或填發鼓勵評單營利事業為一線按時補報或填發者處3000元以上6萬元下罰款"},{"start":6875.069,"end":6888.86,"text":"以歷事業違反的102條之一第二項規定為一線申報或未據時申報股東可扣抵稅賬戶變動明細資料者處7500元罰款並通知限期補報進行為補報者的按次處罰至依規定補報為之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第126條"},{"start":6900.973,"end":6913.71,"text":"第126條本法自公佈日施行但中華民國94年12月28日修正公佈之第17條自94年1月1日施行97年1月2日修正公佈之第14條第一項第9類"},{"start":6916.113,"end":6931.833,"text":"自97年1月1日施行97年12月26日修正公布之第17條自97年1月1日施行98年5月27日修正公布之第5條第二項及99年6月15日修正公布之同條第5項"},{"start":6932.734,"end":6951.813,"text":"自99年度施行100年1月19日修正公佈之第4條第1項第1款第2款及第17條第1項第1款第4目自101年1月1日施行101年8月8日修正公佈條文自102年1月1日施行"},{"start":6952.193,"end":6959.3,"text":"104年6月24日凶神公佈條文自105年1月1日實行104年12月2日凶神公佈條文自105年1月1日實行108年7月24日凶神公佈條文自108年1月1日實行110年"},{"start":6971.552,"end":6995.979,"text":"4月28日修正公佈條文自110年7月1日實行本法中華民國90年6月13日修正公佈條文103年1月8日修正公佈條文105年7月27日修正公佈條文及113年7月15日修正之條文實行日期由行政院定之103年6月4日修正公佈條文除第66條之4、第66條之6"},{"start":6998.86,"end":7016.946,"text":"及第73條之二自104年1月1日施行為及於條文自104年度施行本法中華民國107年2月7日修正公佈條文自107年1月1日施行但第5條、第66條之9、第71條、第75條、第79條、第108條及第110條自107年度施行第73條之2自108年1月1日施行"},{"start":7028.269,"end":7052.758,"text":"宣讀完畢二院會全案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀求院會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀之條文第88條納稅義務人有下列各類所得者應由扣繳義務人與給付時依規定之扣繳率或扣繳辦法扣取稅款並依第92條規定繳納之"},{"start":7055.899,"end":7073.794,"text":"一、公司分配與非中華民國境內居住之個人及總機構在中華民國境外之營利事業之鼓勵合作社、行政法人、合夥組織或獨資組織分配與非中華民國境內居住之社員、出資者、合夥人或獨資資本組織營餘二、"},{"start":7077.598,"end":7099.458,"text":"機關行政法人、團體、學校、事業破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人因管理、處分信託財產所給付之薪資、利息、租金、佣金、權利金、競技、競賽或機會、中獎之獎金或給予退休金、自血費、退職金、離職金、終身奉"},{"start":7100.439,"end":7114.799,"text":"非屬保險給付之養老金、購買或撿取獎金、結構型商品交易之所得、執行業務者之報酬及給付在中華民國境內無固定營業場所或營業代理人之國外營利事業之所得"},{"start":7115.64,"end":7140.968,"text":"三、第25條規定之盈利事業：第98條之一之規定：應由營業代理人或己夫人：控銷所得稅款之盈利事業所得四、第26條規定在中華民國境內：無犯罪機構之國外影片事業：其在中華民國境內之盈利事業所得額獨資合夥組織之盈利事業：第71條第2項或第75條第4項規定：辦理結算申報或決算："},{"start":7145.349,"end":7165.015,"text":"欣純申報有因分配與非中華民國境內居住之獨資資本主或合夥組織合夥人之影響者因於該年度結算、申報或決算欣純申報法定截止日前由扣繳義務人依規定之扣繳率扣取稅款並依第九舌條規定繳納其後實際分配時"},{"start":7169.136,"end":7197.471,"text":"不是用前項第一款規定前項獨資合夥組織之盈利事業依法辦理結算、決算或清算申報或與申報後辦理更正經基準機關核定層項盈利事業所得額或為依法自行辦理申報經基準機關核定盈利事業所得額自專家、獨資資本主或合夥組織合伍人之盈餘者後小義務人應與合定通知書送達之次日起算30日內"},{"start":7198.531,"end":7217.362,"text":"就因分配與非中華民國境內居住之獨資資本處或合夥組織合夥人之新增盈餘以規定支控小率扣取稅款並依第92條規定繳納前三項各類所得支控小率及扣繳辦法由財政部擬定報請行政院核定"},{"start":7219.366,"end":7245.781,"text":"第89條 其條各類稅的稅款其勾交義務人及納稅義務人如下一、公司分配與非中華民國境內居住之個人及總機構在中華民國境外之營利事業之鼓勵合作社分配與非中華民國境內居住之社員之營餘其他法人分配與非中華民國境內居住之出資者之營餘獨資合夥組織之營利事業分配"},{"start":7248.883,"end":7260.498,"text":"或因分配與非中華民國境內居住之獨資資本主或合夥組織合夥人之盈餘其共享義務人為公司、合作社、其他法人獨資組織或合夥組織"},{"start":7264.603,"end":7276.36,"text":"納稅義務人為非中華民國境內居住之個人股東總經貿在中華民國境外之盈利事業股東非中華民國境內居住之社員出資者合夥組織合夥人或獨資資本主"},{"start":7279.384,"end":7294.666,"text":"二、薪資、利息、租金、佣金、權利金、執行業務報酬、競技、競賽或機會中獎獎金或給予退休金、資遣費、退職金、離職金、終身奉、非屬保險及護士養老金"},{"start":7295.526,"end":7316.802,"text":"購買或撿取獎金、結構行商品、交易之所得及幾乎在中華民國境內無固定營業場所或營業代理人之國外營利事業之所得其共有業務人為機關、行政法人、團體、學校事業、破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人"},{"start":7317.903,"end":7331.625,"text":"納稅義務人為取得所得者三、依前條定項第三款規定之引力事業所得稅扣繳義務人為營業代理人或給付人納稅義務人為總機構在中華民國境外之引力事業"},{"start":7333.407,"end":7349.415,"text":"國外影片事業所得稅款扣繳義務人為營業代理人或給付人納稅義務人為國外影片事業扣繳義務人為履行扣繳責任而有他間不明、行蹤不明或其他警示至無從追究者"},{"start":7349.855,"end":7366.726,"text":"審議員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":7371.212,"end":7389.684,"text":"因未達及扣點或因不屬本法規定之扣繳範圍而未經扣繳稅款者應於每年1月底前將受理人姓名、住址、國民身份證統一編號及全年給付金額等依規定格式列保申報諸法基準機關並應於2月10日前將免扣繳評單填發納稅義務人"},{"start":7396.148,"end":7418.805,"text":"每年1月遇連續3日以上國定假日者免控小平單申報期間延長至2月5日至免控小平單填發期間延長至2月15日至但《機關行政法》仍團體學校事業由解散、廢止、合併、轉讓、裁撤、變更或破產管理人處理之破產事務經法院裁定終結或終止時"},{"start":7420.747,"end":7425.293,"text":"應隨時填發免扣繳憑登並於10日內列單申報主管集專機關"},{"start":7427.952,"end":7447.039,"text":"第92條第88條各類所得稅款之扣獎一物人應於每月10日前將上一月內所扣稅款向國庫獎金並於每年1月底前將上一年內扣獎各納稅一物人之稅款數額開續扣獎評單匯報該款基準機關查核並於2月10日前將扣獎評單填發納稅一物人"},{"start":7454.342,"end":7476.581,"text":"每年1月與連續3日以上國定假日者扣繳平單匯報期間延長至2月5日至扣繳平單停發期間延長至2月15日至但經關行政法人、團體學校、事業由解散、廢止、合併轉讓、裁撤、變更或破產管理人處理之破產事務經法院裁定終結或終止時"},{"start":7477.862,"end":7496.314,"text":"扣繳用人應隨時就以扣繳稅款數額﹐填發扣繳評單﹐並於10日內向該管基準機關辦理申報﹐非中華民國境內居住之個人﹐或在中華民國境內無固定營業場所之營利事業﹐有第88條規定各類所得時﹐"},{"start":7497.114,"end":7520.343,"text":"扣繳義務人應於戴扣稅款之日起算10日內將所扣稅款向國庫繳清並開具扣繳平單向該機關申報和諺後發給納稅義務人戴扣稅款之日起算10日內與連續3日以上國定加入者所扣稅款繳納扣繳平單申報和諺及發給期間也長5日"},{"start":7523.025,"end":7545.207,"text":"總經過在中華民國境外：而在中華民國境內：有固定營業場所生營利事業：其或配置股利或營餘準用前項規定第94條之一,依第89條第三項本文：第92條第一項本文：及第92條之一規定應填發免扣繳平單：扣繳平單及相關平單之機關行政法人"},{"start":7546.309,"end":7565.669,"text":"團體、學校、事業、破產財團之破產管理人、執行業務者信託行為之受託人及其他扣繳義務人依依規定期限將憑單申報該管基準機關且憑單內容符合下列進行者得免填發扣繳得免填發憑單與納稅義務人"},{"start":7570.131,"end":7588.658,"text":"一、納稅義務人為在中華民國境內居住之個人在中華民國境內有固定營業場所之營利事業機關、團體、執行業務者或信託行為之受託人二、扣繳或免扣繳資料經基準機關納入結算申報期間提供所的資料查詢服務"},{"start":7589.458,"end":7600.553,"text":"三、其他財政部規定之情形一、前項規定免填發平等與納稅義務人者如納稅義務人要求填發時仍應填發"},{"start":7602.864,"end":7627.13,"text":"第111條政府機關行政法人或公立學校違反第89條第三項規定為一線或未拒時申報或為一線填發免扣繳平單者應通知其主委機關或監督機關督促其依法辦理前項以外應申報及填發免扣繳平單者違反第89條第三項規定為一線或未拒時申報"},{"start":7628.03,"end":7641.616,"text":"或依依限填發免扣繳平擔者處1500元以上2萬元下罰款並通知限期補報或填發限期未補報或填發者處3000元以上9萬元下罰款"},{"start":7644.249,"end":7671.281,"text":"第112條納稅義務人與縣繳納稅款者應加徵致納金與30日人為繳納者其為營利事業者即將機關得停止其營業致納稅義務人繳納之日之前項應納稅款應自致納期限屆滿之次日起致納稅義務人繳納之日之依第123條規定之存款利息按日加計利息一併徵收"},{"start":7672.721,"end":7687.426,"text":"本法所規定之停止營業處分由基金機關執行並由警察機關協助之第114條 控詐亦污染有效列情事之一者分別依該款規定處罰"},{"start":7689.006,"end":7708.315,"text":"一、扣繳義務人委議第88條規定扣繳稅款者除限期責令補繳應扣未扣或短扣之稅款及補報扣繳平單外並按應扣未扣或短扣之稅額處一倍以下之罰款其未於限期內補繳應扣未扣或短扣之稅款或補按時報"},{"start":7710.851,"end":7718.062,"text":"或不按時補報扣繳平擔者應按應扣未扣或短扣之稅額除3倍以下之罰款"},{"start":7720.127,"end":7741.443,"text":"2、扣繳義務人員以本款扣繳稅款而未依第92條規定之期限按時填報或填發扣繳平單者處限期則另補報或填發費為除1500元以上額外元項還款經基金關限期則另補報或填發扣繳平單扣繳義務人為依限按時補報或填發者"},{"start":7742.484,"end":7751.423,"text":"處3千元以上、4萬5千元下罰款3、扣繳義務人與地球沙條規定期限繳納所扣稅款者應加徵滯納金"},{"start":7754.266,"end":7779.198,"text":"第114條之三,營利事業於中華民國106年12月31日以前分配於股東、社員或出資者之87年度或以後年度之鼓勵或營餘,為依第102條之一第一項規定之期限,依規定的是按時填報或填發鼓勵平擔者,處限期則令補報或填發位,處1500元以上,3萬元相發還"},{"start":7784.158,"end":7807.023,"text":"經基樽機關限期責令補報或提發鼓勵評單盈利事業唯一限暗示補報或提發者處30億元以上6萬元下發還盈利事業於中華民國107年1月1日以後分配於股東、稅務或租資者之87年度或以後年度之鼓勵或盈餘唯一第102條之一第一項規定之期限"},{"start":7807.603,"end":7830.429,"text":"依規定格式按時填報或填發鼓勵平擔者﹐從限期責令補報或填發外﹐處1500元以上3萬元相還﹐經基金官限期責令補報或填發鼓勵平擔﹐盈利事業為依限按時補報或填發者﹐處3000元以上6萬元相還﹐盈利事業為本第102條之一第二項規定﹐"},{"start":7832.809,"end":7840.639,"text":"為一線審報或未確實審報股東可扣抵稅額帳戶變動明細資料者處7500元發揮並通知限期補報即期為補報者得按次處罰制依規定補報為止"},{"start":7849.864,"end":7862.951,"text":"第126條本法自公佈日施行但中華民國94年12月28日修正公佈之第17條自94年1月1日施行97年1月2日修正公佈之第14條第一項第9類自97年1月1日施行97年12月26日修正公佈之第17條自97年1月1日施行98年5月27日修正公佈之第5條第二項"},{"start":7878.44,"end":7896.238,"text":"及99年6月15日修正公佈之同條第5項自99年度施行100年1月19日修正公佈之第4條第1項、第1款、第2款及第17條第1項、第1款、第4目自101年1月1日施行"},{"start":7897.718,"end":7913.984,"text":"101年8月8日 修正公佈條文自102年1月1日施行104年6月24日 修正公佈條文自105年1月1日施行104年12月2日 修正公佈條文自105年1月1日施行108年7月24日 修正公佈條文自108年1月1日施行110年4月28日 修正公佈條文自110年7月1日施行"},{"start":7926.589,"end":7947.579,"text":"本法中華民國90年6月13日修正公佈條文103年1月8日修正公佈條文105年7月27日修正公佈條文及113年7月15日修正之條文實行日期由行政院定之103年6月4日修正公佈條文除第66條之4、第66條之6及第73條之2"},{"start":7951.281,"end":7967.684,"text":"自104年1月1日施行外其餘條文自104年度施行本法中華民國107年2月7日修正公佈條文自107年1月1日施行但第56條之9、第71條、第75條、第79條、第108條及第110條自107年度施行第73條之2自108年1月1日施行宣讀完畢"},{"start":7981.738,"end":7991.086,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文均已宣讀完畢請問委員會有無文字修正而沒有文字修正決議所得稅法第88條、第89條、第92條及第94條之一、第111條、112條、114條、114條之三及第126條條文修正通過"},{"start":8010.539,"end":8021.124,"text":"我們現在進入討論事項第9案中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":8022.782,"end":8039.539,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會於113年5月13日及15日舉行全英委員會議審查本案會議由王兆吉委員喻名擔任主席邀請提案委員說明提案要旨並請勞動部部長許明春等練習說明並備諮詢與會員於聽取說明及詢談後進行主條討論,完成本案審查"},{"start":8046.306,"end":8070.627,"text":"令通過附帶決議領相原經決議並按理據審查報告提報院會討論本案與院會進行二讀前不須黨團協商院會討論本案時由王召集委員玉敏補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員王玉敏委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":8074.741,"end":8084.015,"text":"沒有異議本案精英審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法請宣讀第7條"},{"start":8085.492,"end":8105.887,"text":"第7條 中央主管機關應會商、中央目的事業主管機關及地方主管機關至少每3年訂定中高齡者及高齡者就業計劃前項就業計劃應包括下列事項一、推動中高齡者及高齡者之職務再設計二、促進中高齡者及高齡者之職場友善"},{"start":8107.208,"end":8120.529,"text":"三、提升中高齡者及高齡者之職業安全措施與輔具使用四、辦理提升中高齡者及高齡者專業正能之職業訓練五、獎勵雇主雇用失業中高齡者及"},{"start":8124.055,"end":8128.936,"text":"6.推動中高齡者及高齡者之延緩退休及退休後再就業7."},{"start":8128.936,"end":8131.898,"text":"推動銀髮人才服務8."},{"start":8131.898,"end":8136.78,"text":"宣導雇主責任受雇者就業及退休權益9."},{"start":8136.78,"end":8139.981,"text":"推動中高齡者及高齡者之部分時間工作模式"},{"start":8140.901,"end":8169.153,"text":"其他促進中高齡者及高齡者就業之相關事項地方主管機關應依前二項就業計畫結合鄉區產業特性推動中高齡者及高齡者就業宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第九條第九條為協助中高齡者及高齡者就業主管機關應提供職場營指引手冊並至少每二年更新一次宣讀完畢"},{"start":8169.949,"end":8172.717,"text":"照審查會條文通過我們第26條維持現行條文請宣讀第29條"},{"start":8178.43,"end":8203.51,"text":"第29條僱主對於所僱用之中高齡者及高齡者等於其符合《勞動基準法》第53條規定時或第54條第一項第一款前二年內提供退休準備、調適或在就業之相關協助措施僱主依前項規定辦理時中央主管機關得與補助宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第36條"},{"start":8205.034,"end":8223.17,"text":"第36條 中央主管機關未配合國家產業發展需要因會商中央目的事業主管機關共同開發中高齡者及高齡者產業及就業機會宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過全案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問願會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":8232.318,"end":8253.251,"text":"第7條 中央主管機關應彙生中央目的事業主管機關及地方主管機關至少每3年訂定中高齡者及高齡者就業計劃前項就業計劃應包括向列事項以推動中高齡者及高齡者之職務再設計亂促進中高齡者及高齡者之職場友善"},{"start":8254.391,"end":8278.891,"text":"三、提升中高齡者及高齡者之職業安全措施與服具使用四、辦理提升中高齡者及高齡者專業職能之職業訓練五、獎勵僱主僱用失業中高齡者及高齡者六、推動中高齡者及高齡者之延緩退休及退休後再就業七、推動營法人才服務"},{"start":8280.192,"end":8284.416,"text":"8.宣導互助責任收入者就業及退休權益9."},{"start":8284.416,"end":8289.021,"text":"推動中高齡者及高齡者之部分時間工作模式10."},{"start":8289.021,"end":8301.254,"text":"其他促進中高齡者及高齡者就業之相關事項地方主管機關應依前二項就業計畫結合小區產業特性推動中高齡者及高齡者就業9."},{"start":8303.636,"end":8319.521,"text":"為協助中高齡者及高齡者就業主管機關應提供職場職營手冊並職場每二年更新一次第29條僱主對於所僱用之中高齡者及高齡者得於其符合《勞動基準法》第53條規定時"},{"start":8321.221,"end":8344.566,"text":"或第54條第一項第一款且二年內提供退休準備、調適或再就業之相關協助措施故主依前項規定辦理時,中央主管機關得予補助第36條中央主管機關未配合國家產業發展需要應會商中央目的事業主管機關共同開發中高齡者及高齡者產業及就業機會宣讀完畢"},{"start":8349.827,"end":8359.353,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文均宣讀完畢求委員會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議《中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法》第7條、第9條、第29條及第36條條文修正通過報告委員會現在我們繼續處理審查會所作之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":8377.162,"end":8405.043,"text":"通過附帶決議一項有鑒於我國即將進入超高齡社會緩緩勞工退出就業市場並鼓勵退休後重返職場已成為這幾年來勞動政策的重點議題請勞動部定期每年依當前勞動情勢適時精進與調整計畫措施以為中高齡者及高齡者就業權益提升勞參率宣讀完畢"},{"start":8407.915,"end":8422.762,"text":"報告委員會請問有無異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過報告委員會現在完成立法後程序發言我們首先請登記第一位吳春成委員發言每人發言兩分鐘"},{"start":8439.434,"end":8450.132,"text":"非常開心本席代表壯世代運動在第11屆立法院立法委員"},{"start":8452.247,"end":8452.947,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":8470.417,"end":8488.073,"text":"條文修正案：讓即將進入高齡社會的台灣能夠透過這項修法讓勞動力的不足以及政治人生巔峰的壯世代能夠有更多的時間、更多的資源來妥善規劃自己的人生"},{"start":8489.148,"end":8517.711,"text":"隨著醫學的進步我們國人原本設定65歲退休的餘命已經從8年延長將近30年壯士來的第三人生有非常長的時間無論是繼續投入原本的工作或者是轉行轉業開創新的人生都有非常充裕的時間和人生經歷資源這次由台灣民眾黨黨團提出的修法內容讓現行退休前的準備調適"},{"start":8518.832,"end":8547.499,"text":"及再就業的相關措施從原本的一年延長為五年更讓壯世代能夠獲得充分的準備去開創他的第三人生另外接下來會搭配勞動基準法第54條的修正案讓僱主及勞工能夠透過協調延長勞工退休的年齡以及中小企業發展條例的修正草案提高中小企業減免稅租的獎勵措施"},{"start":8548.319,"end":8555.781,"text":"來鼓勵聘僱壯世代的員工待這幾條的法案修整之後﹐可以解決我國勞動力不足的問題﹐發展壯世代產業﹐長壽經濟﹐促進世代融合的問題"},{"start":8582.745,"end":8604.419,"text":"院長、各位委員同仁大家好我擔任未還委員會的召集委員這一次排了有關於中高齡就業促進法部分條文修正草案這一次的修法通過有幾個重要的重點包括我們把過去對於中高齡就業被動的一個樣態化為主動"},{"start":8606.36,"end":8633.674,"text":"也就是在第7條我們要求道具設計更適合中高齡勞動者的職場環境因為我們看到現行有一些中高齡者他在這個職場上面因為這個職務設計的不恰當導致他還是沒有辦法持續在這樣的職場環境裡面工作因此這樣子的一個要求也希望未來為這一些中高齡者創造一個更友善的職場環境"},{"start":8634.995,"end":8661.147,"text":"第二有關於現在職場的訊息瞬息萬變目前的一個相關的職場的指引手冊沒有規定這個更新的時間那我在法條裡面希望每兩年就應該要把最及時的這些就業資訊可以提供給我們的中高齡勞動者另外就是要求政府"},{"start":8662.208,"end":8684.026,"text":"應該要跟這些企業主動的去規劃開發設計符合中高齡的工作機會把過去比較被動的這樣的一個樣態變成是主動去開發他們的職務設計台灣現在還面臨缺工的問題我們可以看到特別是在服務業"},{"start":8684.847,"end":8685.708,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":8710.757,"end":8724.051,"text":"謝謝王育民委員的發言報告委員會現在我們進入討論事項第10案勞動基準法第54條及第86條條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":8724.827,"end":8743.606,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會分別於114年5月13日及15日舉行全體委員會議審查本案：會議由王兆基委員譽名擔任主席邀請提案委員說明提案要旨並請勞動部部長許明春等列席說明並拜質詢與會員與聽取說明及詢談後進行逐條討論：完成本案審查"},{"start":8748.411,"end":8768.41,"text":"原經決議,併案擬具審查報告提報院會討論本案與院會進行二讀前,不須交黨團協商院會討論本案時,由王、趙、紀委、喻、明補充說明宣讀完畢請王、喻、明、趙、紀委、喻、明補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議,不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":8771.394,"end":8772.915,"text":"明月一本案進一審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論勞動基準法請宣讀第54條"},{"start":8779.264,"end":8803.957,"text":"第54條勞工非有下令情形之一故處不得強制其退休一、年滿65歲者二、身心障礙不堪申任工作者傑向第一款所規定之年齡等由勞工雙方攜身延後之對於擔任具有危險、堅強體力等特殊性職職工作者等由事業單位報請中央主管機關予以調整但不得少於55歲宣讀完畢"},{"start":8807.352,"end":8814.06,"text":"到審查會條文通過第86條維持現行條文全案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":8823.7,"end":8849.211,"text":"第54條勞工分有項鍊情形之一故主不得強制其退休一、年滿65歲者二、身心障礙不堪升任工作者前向第一款所規定之年齡得由勞工雙方協商延後之對於擔任具有危險堅強體力等特殊性職質工作者得由事業單位報警中央主管局員予以調整但不得少於55歲宣讀完畢"},{"start":8851.448,"end":8872.113,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議《勞動基準法》第54條條文修正通過報告委員會現在完成立法程序後發言首先我們請登記第一位王振旭委員發言"},{"start":8898.649,"end":8921.286,"text":"主席、各位委員、同仁大家好今天《勞基法》修正草案三讀除了因應國際趨勢也符合我國現階段以致於未來發展的各項需求同時也作為政府繁解勞動短缺可能的解方之一對此我們樂見本次修法的進展同時我們要提醒"},{"start":8922.338,"end":8941.646,"text":"行政部門修法完成以後必須要積極完備相關的配套措施務必提供勞工朋友更明確的保障在委員會審查階段我與吳淳成委員針對勞基法第54條共同提出修正動議增訂關於強制退休年齡可經由"},{"start":8942.466,"end":8968.963,"text":"勞固雙方協商延後的相關規範提供年齡超過65歲延後退休者更明確的法令依據這項修正動議在衛環委員會獲得劉建國委員、黃學芳委員、陳穎委員、岳行委員共同連署支持也因此在逐條審查時最後終於版本通過要特別感謝多位委員的支持然而放寬65歲上限未來將以交付"},{"start":8970.964,"end":8990.414,"text":"勞資協商的方式進行有鑒於現行國內勞資關係有努力的空間因此勞動部必須要特別留意勞資雙方是必須在對等的條件下進行相關的協商此外關於退休金以及勞保相關制度的相應變革也必須要儘速釐清"},{"start":8991.394,"end":9010.128,"text":"必如救治退休金的基數是否需要提高或新式退休金應如何配套處理等：最後本席十分關心的勞工健檢若開放延後退休勞動部必須盡速研擬對策並向國人完整提出說明相關的重點事項"},{"start":9010.828,"end":9037.359,"text":"那今年勞動節時賴總統也特別強調政府必須讓所有的勞工都能夠得到政府的照顧分享經濟成長的果實也讓每一位勞工的生活都能夠更好的保障本席也將持續與各位謝謝王振旭委員的發言接下來請登記第二位王育敏委員發言"},{"start":9046.563,"end":9072.204,"text":"謝謝主席、各位院會同仁本席擔任未還文匯的召委特別排定勞動基準法第54條的修正案而這一個案子一開始是由本席提出來主要是看到在我們現行的勞動基準法當中它所條列的文字會讓大家誤以為到65歲是全部強制要退休"},{"start":9072.864,"end":9090.793,"text":"那事實上現在事務上就有鼓勵牢固雙方可以去協商延後退休的時間但是在原來的條文當中並沒有明確的語意所以因此本席提出了修法也謝謝未還委員會多位同仁後來提出了修正動議"},{"start":9091.673,"end":9100.723,"text":"大家通過了修正動議的版本台灣在2025年我們邁入超高齡社會65歲以上的人口就會佔了20%高齡者延後退休持續在職場貢獻已經變成是國際的趨勢"},{"start":9108.892,"end":9116.521,"text":"然而現在我國65歲以上的勞參率仍然不到10%相較於鄰近的韓國2022年就有37%日本有25%的勞參率我國還是相對的落後"},{"start":9125.834,"end":9145.808,"text":"因此鼓勵僱主可以跟勞工去協商、延後退休時間讓勞工可以持續貢獻他的心力我想這樣的一個修法方向是值得全力去推動的那當然在這樣的一個過程當中我們也看到了有部分工會的團體提出來"},{"start":9146.448,"end":9168.806,"text":"他們希望可以有更強制性的規定去延後退休的年齡那關於這個部分我想在未還委員會或者是在立法院裡面需要透過更多公經的過程大家來協商出共識然後再往下一步的修法我們希望可以保障更多的高齡者有工作權以上 謝謝"},{"start":9174.44,"end":9178.812,"text":"謝謝王育民委員的發言接下來請登記第3號吳春城委員發言"},{"start":9194.192,"end":9217.141,"text":"好 再次的感謝這個立法院的同仁對於台灣進入高齡社會讓高齡者不再是弱勢照顧長照的一個引髮族而能夠成為一個勞動力生產力未來國家重要支柱的壯世代"},{"start":9218.662,"end":9241.818,"text":"今天也感謝王振旭委員跟我一起來推動勞基法54條的修訂讓65歲的勞工可以有機會在延長工作的時間這件事情對於台灣進入超高齡社會有非常重大的意義"},{"start":9242.859,"end":9267.184,"text":"就提到的就業率我們現在65歲以上的勞動就業率實在太低了所以剛才有提到政府應該積極的來針對這一個另外在我們現在勞動力的普遍不足接下來的10年台灣的企業將面臨的退休潮現在很多的老師傅紛紛都要退休這對於經驗的傳承"},{"start":9269.024,"end":9273.926,"text":"臺灣進入超高齡社會,接下來高齡者會超過一半人口,沒有一個用長照的方式可以照顧一半人口,所以勞動就是最好的照顧。"},{"start":9292.752,"end":9296.796,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：請"},{"start":9320.098,"end":9332.548,"text":"謝謝吳春城委員發言報告委員會現在我們進入討論事項第11案土地法第14條及第73條之一條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":9334.127,"end":9351.075,"text":"本院內政委員會於113年5月22日﹐召開全體委員會議審查本案﹐由吳兆久委員起名擔任主席﹐除邀請提案委員說明提案要旨﹐並邀請相關機關列席報告並備諮詢﹐與報告及詢答完畢﹐選舉進行條文審查﹐與獲言與聽取說明及討論後﹐將全案併案審查完畢﹐"},{"start":9358.938,"end":9379.424,"text":"全案併案審查完略擬具審查報告提報約會討論約會討論前不需交由黨團協商約會討論時推請吳趙吉委員請您做補充說明宣讀完畢請趙吉委員吳啟明委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議不需再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":9383.68,"end":9412.896,"text":"沒有異議本案進一審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論土地法請宣讀第14條第14條相列土地不得為私有一、海岸一定限度那支土地二、天然系城池壺則而為公共需用者及其沿岸一定限度那支土地三、可通運車水道及其沿岸一定限度那支土地四、傳承區域內水道壺則及其沿岸一定限度那支土地"},{"start":9413.716,"end":9427.665,"text":"5、公共交通道路6、礦泉地7、瀑布地8、公共需用之水源地9、民生古蹟10、其他法律禁止私有之土地前向土地已成為私有者得依法徵收之"},{"start":9429.026,"end":9455.945,"text":"符合下列其行政議者不受第一項第9款規定之限制一、日據實其原屬私有、台灣光復後登記為公有﹐依法得贈與遺傳為私有之民生古蹟二、公營事業機構及行政法人﹐有經營或使用古蹟土地需要﹐並經中央文化主管機關認定﹐古蹟土地遺傳為其所有﹐可助於古蹟保存其維護宣讀完畢"},{"start":9457.862,"end":9466.306,"text":"照審查會條文通過第73條之一維持現行條文本案已經經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":9474.076,"end":9489.765,"text":"第14條策略土地不等為私有﹐一、海岸一定限度內置土地﹐二、天然形成之湖則而為公共需用者﹐及其沿岸一定限度內置土地﹐三、可通運之水道﹐及其沿岸一定限度內置土地﹐"},{"start":9490.685,"end":9495.949,"text":"4.城鎮區域內水稻穀澤及其沿岸一定限度內之土地5."},{"start":9495.949,"end":9497.731,"text":"公共交通道路6."},{"start":9497.731,"end":9498.611,"text":"礦泉地7."},{"start":9498.611,"end":9499.772,"text":"瀑布地8."},{"start":9499.772,"end":9501.894,"text":"公共需有之水源地9."},{"start":9501.894,"end":9503.535,"text":"名勝古蹟10."},{"start":9503.535,"end":9509.219,"text":"其他法律禁止私有之土地前項土地已成為私有者得依法徵收之"},{"start":9510.44,"end":9536.636,"text":"符合相列前行之意者不受第1項第9款規定之限制一、日據使其原屬私有、台灣光復後登記為公有依法德贈予遺傳為私有之民生古蹟二、公營事業機構及行政法人有經營或使用古蹟土地需要並經中央文化主管機關認定古蹟土地遺傳為其所有可助於古蹟保存及維護宣讀完畢"},{"start":9540.123,"end":9562.715,"text":"判讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議土地法第14條條文修正通過報告院會我們現在進入討論事項第12案不動產估價施法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":9563.973,"end":9577.86,"text":"本院內政委員會於133年5月22日召開選議委員會審查本案：由吳仲景委員起名擔任主席﹐邀請相關經關列席報告並備指示﹐於報告期尋答完畢﹐選舉進行條文審查﹐在這5月於聽取說明並經討論後將全案完成審查﹐"},{"start":9584.023,"end":9609.273,"text":"全案審查完全擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前不須交由黨團協商院會討論時推請吳召集委員齊銘做補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員吳齊銘委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案進一審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議沒有異議本案進一審查會意見"},{"start":9610.468,"end":9612.555,"text":"處理現在進行逐條討論不動產估價施法請宣讀第8條"},{"start":9617.318,"end":9628.483,"text":"第8條有下列執行之意者不發給開業證書已領者撤銷或廢止其開業資格並註銷開業證書一、經撤銷或廢止不動產估價師資格﹐並註銷不動產估價師證書二、有客觀事實足認其身心狀況不能執行業務﹐並經註銷事或縣市主管機關﹐邀請相關專科醫師﹐不動產估價師﹐學者﹐專家組成小組認定"},{"start":9644.951,"end":9648.074,"text":"3.受監獲或輔助宣告尚未撤銷4."},{"start":9648.074,"end":9661.206,"text":"受破產宣告尚未付權依前項第二款至第四款注銷開業證書者與原因消滅後然得依本法治規定請領開業證書宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第18條之一"},{"start":9665.629,"end":9688.769,"text":"第18條之一不動產估價師事務所得聘雇不動產估價助理員﹐協助不動產估價師執行不動產估價業務﹐不動產估價師對於協助其執行業務之不動產估價助理員﹐應擅計管理監督之責任宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀增訂第18條之二"},{"start":9690.1,"end":9713.729,"text":"第18條之二前條不動產估價助理原因具備下列資格之一一、不動產估價是考試及格二、具不動產估價是考試應試資格三、大專校院以上學校畢業修避不動產估價、不動產法規、土地利用、不動產投資與市場及不動產經濟等領域相關課程合計10學分以上"},{"start":9714.85,"end":9729.601,"text":"高等考試地震都市計劃策量製圖財稅金融執行考試及格本法中華民國113年7月15日修正之條文施行前﹐以協助不動產顧家事實金執行前條業務滿二年之再職聘僱員工﹐"},{"start":9733.084,"end":9758.721,"text":"不動產估價師事務所僱用不動產估價助理員因與聘僱關係開始或中准之日期10日內向不動產估價師工會全國聯合會辦理登錄第1項第5款是暫時聘僱員工不動產估價師事務所因與本法中華民國113年7月15日修正式條文施行後1個月內因前項規定向不動產估價師工會全國聯合會辦理登錄"},{"start":9762.123,"end":9778.723,"text":"前二項不動產物價助理員登錄是一致辦理方式書表格式及其他相關事項由不動產物價施工會全國聯合會定之並報中央主管機關被查宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第46條"},{"start":9780.051,"end":9801.216,"text":"第46條本法自公布日施行本法中華民國98年5月12日修正之條文自98年11月23日施行本法中華民國113年7月15日修正之條文自公布後6個月施行宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報告院會本案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":9809.676,"end":9817.2,"text":"第8條有下列執行之一者不發給開業證書已領著撤銷貨費者及開業資格並注銷開業證書一、經撤銷貨費者不動產估價師資格﹐並注銷不動產估價師證書二、有客觀事實足認其身心狀況不能執行業務﹐並經指教士或縣市主管機關﹐邀請相關專科醫師、不動產估價師﹐學者專家組成小組認定"},{"start":9837.23,"end":9840.534,"text":"3.受監護或輔助宣告尚未撤銷4."},{"start":9840.534,"end":9849.446,"text":"受破產宣告尚未付權依前項第二款則第四款註銷開業證書者與原因消滅後人等依本法治規定請領開業證書"},{"start":9853.41,"end":9878.596,"text":"第18條之一不動產估價師事務所的聘務不動產估價助理員協助不動產估價師執行不動產估價業務不動產估價師對於協助其執行業務之不動產估價助理員應順境管理監督之責任第18條之二前條不動產估價助理員應具備下列資格之一一、不動產估價師考試及格"},{"start":9880.576,"end":9902.962,"text":"2、具不動產估價時考試應試資格3、大專校院以上學校畢業、休閉不動產估價、不動產法規、土地利用、不動產投資與市場及不動產經濟等領域相關課程合計10學分以上4、高等考試地震、都市計畫、次量制圖、財稅金融直系考試及格"},{"start":9903.882,"end":9924.721,"text":"5、本法中華民國113年7月15日修正之條文施行前﹐以嫌疏不動產估價師時期執行前條義務滿二年之再職聘僱員工不動產估價師事務所僱用不動產估價助理員﹐應於僱用關係開始或終止之日起十日內﹐向不動產估價師工會全國聯合會辦理登錄"},{"start":9928.884,"end":9957.643,"text":"第1項第5款之暫時聘務員工不動產估價師事務所因與頒發中華民國113年7月15日收成之條文申請後一個月內依前項規定向不動產估價師工會全國聯合會辦理登錄前項向不動產估價助理員登錄是一致辦理方式書表格式及其他相關事項由不動產估價師工會全國聯合會定之並報中央主管機關被查"},{"start":9960.953,"end":9982.072,"text":"第46條本法自公佈日施行本法中華民國98年5月12日修正之條文自98年11月23日施行本法中華民國113年7月15日修正之條文自公佈後6個月施行宣讀完畢報告院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正"},{"start":9983.356,"end":10007.158,"text":"沒有文字修正我們做以下決議不動產估價司法增訂第18條之一及第18條之二條文並將第8條及第46條條文修正通過報告委員會我們現在進行完成立法程序和發言請登記第一號林楚英委員發言"},{"start":10024.094,"end":10032.799,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位大院同仁感謝本次內政委員會的昭惟吳啟明委員提案以及排審一起為不動產估價師專業更上一層樓不動產估價師的專業就是接受當事人的委託針對他的土地或者是房屋的價值來進行評估"},{"start":10041.204,"end":10058.071,"text":"那麼估價的專業品質的好跟壞對於當事人的財產跟不動產市場的秩序維護非常的重要同時也影響到了金融市場的秩序金融機構在進行房屋壽性評估的時候通常都會先進行不動產價值的評估再根據相關的標準來進行核代如果不動產估價制度在銀行內部不專業"},{"start":10065.014,"end":10071.742,"text":"就會出現我們在新聞上看到的某政治人物的親戚他的房屋價值只有110萬1100萬但是他卻超貸金額來到1450萬"},{"start":10080.131,"end":10099.746,"text":"所以說本席非常關注不動產估價師權益已經有一段時間了上一屆在立法院當中我在財政委員會也要求公股行庫要在不動產受信的估價上面要由專業的不動產估價師來進行評估這一方面財政部跟專業的公股行庫已經在進行了解那麼這一次修法"},{"start":10100.226,"end":10128.909,"text":"主要就是參考《會計師法》透過建立不動產估價師制度當中讓我們的助理可以能夠制度化讓不動產估價師在職業時可以更專心地來維護品質並且讓不動產估價師助理制度合法化更可以確保不動產估價師助理的職業以及其他的相關權益不動產對於社會大眾來說通常多數指的就是它的房屋那麼對民眾來說它就是生活之所在"},{"start":10129.329,"end":10144.903,"text":"不動產有價值的存在所以建立良好的估價制度對於台灣的公平正義尤其是土地正義是非常重要的感謝大院同仁一起來支持我們也希望台灣的土地正義能夠持續向前謝謝謝謝林楚英委員的發言"},{"start":10151.596,"end":10177.644,"text":"委員現在我們進入討論事項第13案多層次傳銷管理法第13條條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告本院經濟委員會於113年5月23日舉行全體委員會議審查本案由召集委員邱益穎擔任主席會中邀請公平交易委員會主任委員李美就委員提案提出說明並答覆委員諮詢"},{"start":10178.664,"end":10206.446,"text":"另邀請衛生福利部等相關機關派員練習備詢與會員於聽取說明及詢談後：對法案進行逐條審查及專密討論：並將全案審查完領據審查報告提報約會討論約會討論前不需叫搖黨團先生約會討論時由經濟委會召集委員邱毅英補充說明宣讀完畢報告委員會請召集委員邱毅英委員補充說明"},{"start":10207.554,"end":10212.664,"text":"沒有補充說明報院會本案進行審查會決議不需再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":10215.745,"end":10222.03,"text":"沒有異議本案建議審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論多層次傳銷管理法請宣讀第13條第13條多層次傳銷事業與傳銷商參加及傳銷計畫或組織時應與傳銷商締結書面參加契約並交付契約正本傾向至書面得以電子文件為之宣讀完畢"},{"start":10241.465,"end":10246.809,"text":"本案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議更正第13條照審查會條文通過本案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":10266.704,"end":10293.615,"text":"第13條多層次傳銷事業與傳銷商參加其傳銷計畫或組織時應與傳銷商締結書面參加契約並交付契約正本前項這書面得以電子文件為之宣讀完畢報院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議多層次傳銷管理法第13條條文修正通過"},{"start":10297.048,"end":10307.287,"text":"報議會,我們現在進入討論事項第14案李島建設條例第5條及第10條之一條文修正草案,請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":10309.028,"end":10329.399,"text":"本院經濟委員會於113年5月16日舉行全體委員會議審查本案復於113年5月27日舉行全體委員會議繼續審查本案均由召集委員楊崇英擔任主席會長分別邀請國家發展委員會副主任委員高欣慧等就委員提案提出說明並答覆委員質詢"},{"start":10330.459,"end":10356.986,"text":"立邀請內政部等相關機關配員列席備詢與會員予聽取說明及詢談後：對法案進行逐條審查及緻密討論：並將二案審查完均擬具審查報告提報院會討論：院會討論前不須交由黨團協商：院會討論本案時由經濟委員會召集委員楊瓊英補充說明宣告完畢請召集委員楊瓊英委員補充說明"},{"start":10360.848,"end":10371.178,"text":"沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議沒有異議本案進一審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論離島建設條例請宣讀第五條"},{"start":10376.089,"end":10385.235,"text":"第5條 縣市主管機關應依據縣市綜合發展計畫擬定4年一期制離島綜合建設實施方案請內容如下1."},{"start":10385.235,"end":10387.336,"text":"方案目標及實施範圍2."},{"start":10387.336,"end":10388.457,"text":"實施策略3."},{"start":10388.457,"end":10388.837,"text":"基礎建設4."},{"start":10388.837,"end":10389.017,"text":"產業建設5."},{"start":10389.017,"end":10390.338,"text":"教育建設6."},{"start":10390.338,"end":10390.858,"text":"文化建設7."},{"start":10390.858,"end":10391.139,"text":"交通建設8."},{"start":10391.139,"end":10391.339,"text":"醫療建設9."},{"start":10391.339,"end":10391.859,"text":"觀光建設"},{"start":10397.042,"end":10411.247,"text":"10.警政消防建設11.社會福利建設12.災害防救及濫藏濫墾濫建設改善13.分年實施計畫及執行分工14.分年財務需求及經費來源15.其他宣讀完畢報言會"},{"start":10416.127,"end":10425.493,"text":"照審查會條文通過,請宣讀更正第10條之一,我們維持現行條文報應會全案經過二讀,現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀,請問院會有異議?沒有異議,請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":10435.188,"end":10450.508,"text":"第5條 縣市主管機關應依據縣市綜合發展計畫﹐理定4年期之離島綜合建設實施方案﹐其內容如下﹐一、方案目標及實施範圍﹐二、實施策略﹐三、基礎建設﹐四、產業建設﹐五、教育建設﹐"},{"start":10451.489,"end":10452.65,"text":"6.文化建設7."},{"start":10452.65,"end":10454.231,"text":"交通建設8."},{"start":10454.231,"end":10455.171,"text":"醫療建設9."},{"start":10455.171,"end":10456.572,"text":"觀光建設10."},{"start":10456.572,"end":10458.513,"text":"警政消防建設11."},{"start":10458.513,"end":10459.354,"text":"社會福利建設12."},{"start":10459.354,"end":10464.036,"text":"災害防救及濫藏濫墾濫建築改善13."},{"start":10464.036,"end":10466.698,"text":"分年實施計畫及執行分工14."},{"start":10466.698,"end":10469.599,"text":"分年財務需求及經費來源15."},{"start":10469.599,"end":10476.103,"text":"其他宣讀完畢報告議員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問議員會有文字修正"},{"start":10477.059,"end":10499.261,"text":"沒有文字修正我們決議離島建設條例第5條條文修正通過報言會現在我們進入討論事項第15案宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第5條條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":10500.816,"end":10513.582,"text":"本院內政委員會於123年6月5日召開選舉委員會議審查本案由吳兆景委員起名擔任主席除邀請提案委員說明提案要職並邀請相關機關列席報告並備諮詢與報告及詢談完畢選舉進行條文審查"},{"start":10518.764,"end":10526.167,"text":"與會員於聽取說明集討論後將全案併案審查完略全案併案審查完略擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前不須交由黨團協商院會討論時推請吳趙綺、袁綺銘做補充說明宣讀完畢請趙綺委員、吳綺銘委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":10545.575,"end":10568.553,"text":"明而易矣本案進一審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例請宣讀第五條第五條宗教團體得就新條第一項不動產於本條例施行之日起四年內向主管機關申請權利歸屬審任與其不予受理宣讀完畢"},{"start":10569.758,"end":10598.804,"text":"照審查會條文通過全案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團體繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀之條文第五條中校團體得就前條第一項不動稱與本條例申請之日其四年內向主管機關申請權利歸屬審任與其不予受理宣讀完畢三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正"},{"start":10601.24,"end":10619.193,"text":"我們決議宗教團體以自然的名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正通過報言會我們現在進入討論事項第16案國民體育法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":10620.595,"end":10648.688,"text":"本院教育及文化委員會於113年4月18日召開全體委員會議併案審查本案會中邀請提案委員說明提案之趣教育部政務次長劉孟琦及相關人員列席報告並備諮詢4月同年6月24日召開全體委員會議繼續併案審查本案二次會議均由科召集委員志恩擔任主席與會員於聽取說明及訊談後進行逐條討論完成本案審查"},{"start":10649.528,"end":10674.084,"text":"令通過附帶決議三項本案審查完均併案領據審查報告提報院會公決約會討論前不需交由黨團協商約會討論時由柯志恩委員補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員柯志恩委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議不再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":10676.923,"end":10703.692,"text":"沒有異議本案僅依審查會意見處理我們現在進行逐條討論國民體育法請宣讀第5條第5條政府應保障人民平等使用運動設施及參與體育活動之權利各機關機構選項法人及團體應依有關法令規定配合國家體育政策切實推動體育活動並促進運動參與之性別平等宣讀完畢"},{"start":10704.451,"end":10707.741,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第20條之一"},{"start":10709.178,"end":10737.438,"text":"第20條之一為維護代表學校參加學生綜合運動賽會及聯賽之學生與運動教練之安全及健康並減輕家庭經濟負擔學校應另為學生及運動教練投保團體傷害保險前項團體傷害保險給付項目應包括生物保險金、醫療保險金、住院醫療保險金、傷害門診保險金、生能保險金宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過"},{"start":10738.854,"end":10746.029,"text":"委員何欣純等提案第20條之2及第20條之3均不予增訂請宣讀第23條"},{"start":10749.436,"end":10767.894,"text":"23.籌組國家代表隊之特定體育團體應於培訓及參賽期間為其報經中央主管機關備查之選手及隊職員辦理必要設保險其保險範圍、項目內容與經費補助及相關事項由中央主管機關定之國家代表隊培訓選手及隊職員應培訓或參賽至短期失能"},{"start":10772.178,"end":10794.212,"text":"審訊障礙或死亡者﹐中央主管機關應發給慰問金﹐並提供短期宣言審訊障礙選手﹐後續醫療照顧及相關就業輔導服務﹐慰問金發給對象條件基準﹐領受權人﹐領受順序﹐領受權之喪失﹐申請程序期限及其他相關事項之變法﹐由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":10795.032,"end":10809.966,"text":"第一項保險之短期順能禮賠及負額度與選手之合約薪資差額由中央主管經由應規定補助之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報告議員會我們全案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問議員會有無異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":10820.863,"end":10838.708,"text":"政府應保障人民平等使用運動設施及參與體育活動之權利各機關、機構、學校、法人及團體應依有關法令規定配合國家體育政策切實推動體育活動並促進運動參與之性別平等為維護代表學校參加學生綜合運動賽會"},{"start":10843.909,"end":10861.853,"text":"及聯賽制學生與運動教練之安全及健康並減輕家庭經濟負擔學校應另為學生及運動教練投保團體傷害保險前項團體傷害保險及副項目應包括生股保險金、醫療保險金、住院醫療保險金、傷害門診保險金、失能保險金"},{"start":10867.344,"end":10893.224,"text":"第23條籌組國家代表隊之特定體育團體應於培訓及參賽期間為其報經中央主管機關被查之選手及對職員辦理必要之保險其保險範圍、項目內容與經費博著及相關事項由中央主管機關定之國家代表隊培訓選手及對職員應培訓或參賽至短期失能、身心障礙或死亡者"},{"start":10893.684,"end":10917.396,"text":"中央主管機關應發給慰問金並提供短期失能身心障礙選手後續醫療照顧及相關就業輔導服務慰問金應發給對象條件基準領受權人領受順序領受權至喪失申請程序其限及其他相關事項之類法由中央主管機關定之第一項保險之短期失能理賠及負額度"},{"start":10918.316,"end":10934.264,"text":"與選手之合約薪資差額由中央主管機關應規定補助之宣讀完畢報院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議國民體育法增訂第20條之1條文並將第5條及第23條條文修正通過報院會我們繼續處理審查會所作之附帶決議"},{"start":10946.357,"end":10955.07,"text":"請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容通過附帶決議三項一、為保障學生參加體育賽會之健康安全"},{"start":10955.871,"end":10985.123,"text":"政府應計啟動政策保險有關保障各級學校之運動選手保險採購程序保費費力精算補助金額及實施方式之研議並於一年內完成二、請教育部辦理各項保險時確實要求保險內容應包括學生參加賽會或集訓時報到後熱身、訓練等過程受到傷害時及受傷後提供生活補助之相關保障"},{"start":10987.27,"end":11003.164,"text":"3、交易部體育署應研議一年內建立國家代表隊投保資保單及理賠查查機制避免有僅符合投保金額要求卻無法提供選手理賠令相關政策制定會議應邀請保險專家及運動員權益專家與會宣讀完畢請問議員會有無異議"},{"start":11009.329,"end":11019.265,"text":"沒有異議我們決定照案通過報告委員會現在我們進行完成立法程序後發言首先我們請登記第一位柯志恩委員發言"},{"start":11035.869,"end":11050.777,"text":"主席及各位委員本席在教育文化委員會擔任召委的時候呢判案審查國民體育法的修法很高興今天三讀這次修法有幾項重要的意義包括促進運動參與的性別平等大陸學生及運動教練參與賽事的團體傷害保險還有選手因為參與國家隊而導致終結運動生涯給予後續的照顧"},{"start":11061.583,"end":11086.418,"text":"相信這次的修法將會給予所有參與運動賽事的選手有更多權益的保障本期特別強調性別平等方面因為隨著女性運動參與的意識還有風氣的覺醒國際社會對於女性從事運動的機會還有權益是逐漸的受到重視例如國際奧會會就在2020的改革議題當中就明確的指出性別平等是重要的課題"},{"start":11087.518,"end":11100.369,"text":"但是現在我們現行的國民體育法當中並沒有促進運動參與的性別平等等的規定所以本席這次特別提出了第5條的修正草案要求各機關、機構、學校、法人及團體"},{"start":11103.292,"end":11124.01,"text":"併合國家體育政策推動體育活動的時候都應該有促進運動參與的性別平等責任我想運動不僅是一個力量跟技術的比拼更是一個展現團結跟尊重的公平平台但是我們必須承認性別不平等仍然在運動界相當程度的存在像最近藍鞋在日前宣佈"},{"start":11125.911,"end":11126.512,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":11158.899,"end":11163.872,"text":"謝謝科資恩委員的發言現在請登記第二號林倩琦委員發言"},{"start":11183.206,"end":11196.415,"text":"主席、議員同仁大家好2024年民國113年7月15號國民體育法三讀通過這是一個重要的時刻尤其是針對第五條的修訂"},{"start":11198.527,"end":11220.755,"text":"非常感謝我們教育文化委員會昭偉、柯志恩委員等﹐增訂了促進運動參與的性別平等﹐這樣一個提案在全體獲得大家一致的支持本席對這樣一個修法非常贊同﹐因為在現今的兩性平權價值下﹐這樣子的法條是必要的"},{"start":11222.535,"end":11251.232,"text":"奧林匹克2020年的改革議題當中也已經明確的指出性別平等是重要的議題那我國也在2005年簽署了布萊頓宣言並宣誓要逐步推動女性參與運動因此本席在這邊強烈的批評體育署的行政怠惰3月份本席針對體育署有關於女足數量的問題"},{"start":11252.779,"end":11267.152,"text":"也進行了質詢4月份本席也針對女足的隊伍舉辦了協調會但是在7月份體育署卻回應說女足球員的程度不足"},{"start":11268.618,"end":11286.069,"text":"阻礙了隊伍的成立這樣子的回應實在是推卸責任行政怠惰而真正的問題是在於球隊數量不足根本無法提升整體的程度體育署不願面對現實反而將問題推給球員這樣子的態度非常的不可取"},{"start":11287.27,"end":11304.162,"text":"由於體育署的推諉我們浪費了大量的公帑我們應該提升運動水平和促進性別平等的資源被體育署無所作為的浪費掉這對於體育運動的發展影響非常大也浪費了我們納稅人的公帑"},{"start":11331.321,"end":11335.124,"text":"謝謝林倩琦委員的發言報告委員會,我們現在進入討論事項第17案"},{"start":11338.669,"end":11361.025,"text":"植物診療司法草案：請宣讀審查報告本院經濟委員會於113年6月13日舉行全體委員會議審查本案赴於113年7月8日舉行全體委員會議均由召集委員楊瓊英擔任主席會中邀請農業部部長陳俊濟就委員提案提出署名並答覆委員質詢"},{"start":11362.026,"end":11390.666,"text":"令邀請考選部等相關機關配員列席備詢與會員於聽取說明及詢答後：對法案進行逐條審查及準密討論：並將全案併案審查完略擬具審查報告提報約會討論約會討論前：不需交由黨團協商約會討論本案時：由經濟委員會召集委員楊瓊英補充說明：令通過附帶決議以上宣讀完畢請楊瓊英委員召集委員補充說明"},{"start":11392.742,"end":11420.664,"text":"沒有補充說明本案今審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有無異議沒有異議本案今審查會意見處理現在進行逐條討論植物診療施法草案請宣讀名稱植物診療施法宣讀完畢照審查會名稱通過請宣讀第一章第一章總則宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第一條"},{"start":11421.67,"end":11448.728,"text":"第一條為提升職務保護水準﹐強化職務防疫檢疫及高風險農藥水使用管理﹐建立職務轉良師專業服務體系特制定本法宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第二條第二條本法所稱主管機關在中央為農業部﹐在主強勢為主強勢政府﹐在縣勢為縣勢政府宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第三條"},{"start":11449.608,"end":11461.839,"text":"第3條 中華民國國民經職務斬療師考試及格並領有職務斬療師證書者得充任職務斬療師 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第4條第4條 請領職務斬療師證書應填具申請書並檢附資格證明文件 送請中央主管及法執 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第5條"},{"start":11476.589,"end":11482.175,"text":"5.有下列執行之一者不得充任職務診療師,以充任者撤銷或廢止其職務診療師證書。1."},{"start":11482.175,"end":11485.198,"text":"依專門職業及技術人員考試法規定,經最小職務診療師考試及格資格尚未屆滿3年。"},{"start":11492.325,"end":11518.046,"text":"二、因執行職務斬療業務上有關之故意犯罪行為受一年有期徒刑上刑事判決確定而未受緩刑者宣告等於刑之執行完畢或赦免後已滿二年者不再此限三、曾經撤銷或廢除職務斬療事證書自處分確定日期尚未屆滿二年宣讀完畢造成審查會條文通過請宣讀第六條"},{"start":11518.871,"end":11538.301,"text":"第6條 非擬有植物診療師證書者不得使用植物診療師或易使人誤認為植物診療師之名稱 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第二章第二章執業 宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過 請宣讀第7條"},{"start":11539.349,"end":11559.304,"text":"第7條 非領有職務診療師證書者﹐不得執行職務有害宣物鑑定報告﹐職務異病重害之診斷書﹐防制意見書及相關職務﹐健康證明文件之簽證業務﹐但機關購依法規執行前﹐開文件之簽證者不在此限"},{"start":11562.115,"end":11583.265,"text":"職務診療師處執行前項簽證業務為並得辦理下列事項一、職務有害生物之診斷及鑑定二、職務特定有害生物之監測及調查三、職務有害生物綜合防治技術、藥製與資材使用之指導及推廣四、職務生理障礙之診斷及治療五、行政法規規定由職務診療師辦理之業務第一項所稱簽證指職務診療師"},{"start":11588.667,"end":11606.316,"text":"一、業務事件主管機關之法規執行職務有害生物之診斷、堅定或推薦防事管理方法、作成報告診斷書、防事意見書或證明文件,並於其上簽名或改章宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過,請宣讀第8條"},{"start":11609.073,"end":11623.139,"text":"第8條 植物診療師之職業機構如下一、植物診療機構二、甚有農業相關科系所學位或學成之大專校院三、農會或農業生產運銷合作社四、農業試驗研究機構五、農藥生產業或販賣業者八、其他經中央主管機關任何之機構宣讀完畢照審查會議條文通過請宣讀第9條"},{"start":11638.547,"end":11644.85,"text":"第9條 職務診療師應則依你職業之職業機構﹐相該機構所在地職僑市縣市主管機關﹐申請職業登記﹐領有職業執照使得職業職務診療師予取得職業執照後﹐得與全國執行業務職務診療師職業應於一定期間﹐完成繼續教育並取得積分﹐辦理職業執照更新"},{"start":11662.637,"end":11687.286,"text":"第一項 申請職業登記之資格、條件、程序、應解副文件、登記事項、職業執照發給、換發、補發、更新與前項繼續教育之一定期間各種內容、積分、實施方式、完成繼續教育之認定、證明文件取得及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第10條"},{"start":11688.55,"end":11710.239,"text":"第10條 植物診療師有項鍊潔淨之意者不得發給職業執照,以0者撤銷或廢止之。一,依第5條規定不得充任植物診療師。二,經撤銷或廢止植物診療師職業執照,自處分確定日期尚未屆滿1年,但依第11條規定廢止職業執照者不是用之。"},{"start":11711.46,"end":11714.542,"text":"3.受監護或輔助宣告尚未撤銷4."},{"start":11714.542,"end":11733.216,"text":"有客觀事實認不能執行業務,經指甲稅縣市主管機關邀請相關專科醫師、植物診療師及學者專家組成小組認定。請向第三款或第四款原因消失後,人的依前條第一項規定申請執業執照。宣讀完畢。照審查會條文通過,請宣讀第11條。"},{"start":11738.328,"end":11755.221,"text":"第11條職務審量是有先業停業或原申請職業登記事項變更者因此事實發生之日起算30日內有復業者因此復業前30日內依下令為定辦理一、先業報原發職業執照機關廢止職業執照二、停業或復業報原發職業執照機關被查三、原申請職業登記事項變更報原發職業執照機關許可"},{"start":11767.691,"end":11781.538,"text":"但登記職業機構遷移至其他職項是現任職業者應依第9條第一項規定辦理職務者療師停業超過一年者視為歇業由原發職業執照機關廢止其職業執照第一項申報廢查申請職業登記事項變更之程序應檢附文件職業執照註記換發註銷與前項停業時間之認定及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":11797.305,"end":11804.512,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第12條第12條職務診療師職業應加入職業登記處所所在地職務診療師工會職務診療師工會不得拒絕具有會員資格者入會宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第13條"},{"start":11818.086,"end":11836.962,"text":"第13條 植物診療師執行業務應製作診療記錄﹐其內容應與診療事實相符﹐植物診療師開立之植物有害生物鑑定報告﹐植物疫病重害之診斷書﹐防制意見書或相關植物健康證明文件之內容﹐應與診療記錄相符前項診療記錄應以中文製作﹐並交由職業機構妥善保存"},{"start":11842.106,"end":11854.917,"text":"第一項診療紀錄之應記載事項與前項診療紀錄之製作保存方式及保存連線由中央主管機關公告之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第14條"},{"start":11856.243,"end":11876.322,"text":"第14條植物診療師於執行業務時發現在中華民國未有發生紀錄之有害生物除指示防治及隔離方法外並應將植物種類、有害生物名稱植物所有人或管理人之姓名及住址於24小時內通報主管機關宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過請宣讀第15條"},{"start":11878.905,"end":11901.577,"text":"第15條 植物者療生受政府有關機關詢問或委託鑑定時﹐不得為虛偽之陳述或報告宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第16條第16條 植物者療生對於植物異病蟲害防治事項﹐有遵從主管機關指揮之義務宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第17條"},{"start":11902.833,"end":11905.677,"text":"第17條職務診療師不得將職務診療師證書或職業註照租借他人使用宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第18條"},{"start":11915.558,"end":11943.664,"text":"第18條主管機關為稽查取締違反本法規定之行為必要時的進入職務診療師職業機構信有或5年內曾有執行職務診療師業務及經當與職務診療師業務有關之場所檢查任何人不得規避、妨礙或拒絕主管機關執行前上職務證人員應向關係人出示有關執行職務之證明文件或顯示足資辨別之標誌宣言完畢"},{"start":11944.324,"end":11953.533,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第三章第三章職務轉調機構管理宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第19條"},{"start":11954.81,"end":11980.879,"text":"第19條 職務診療機構印象所在地﹐直銷室縣市主管機關申請開業登記﹐領有開業執照使得開業前項申請開業登記之資格條件﹐程序應檢附文件﹐登記事項﹐開業執照發給﹐換發、補發﹐其他相關事項之辦法及職務診療機構設置之標準﹐由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第20條"},{"start":11983.257,"end":11995.782,"text":"第20條 植物診療機構應置負責植物診療師一人自然人設立之植物診療機構以其申請人為負責植物診療師對其診療應務負督導責任宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第21條"},{"start":12002.301,"end":12020.194,"text":"第21條非植物診療機構不得使用植物診療機構或易使人誤認為植物診療機構之名稱植物診療機構名稱之使用及變更原則由中央主管機關公告之宣讀完畢叫審查會條文通過請宣讀第22條"},{"start":12021.448,"end":12034.954,"text":"第22條依第19條規定申請看業登記有項列執行之一者不得發給看業執照依0者撤銷或廢止之依申請人或負責職務診療師依第10條第1項規定不得發給職業執照或經撤銷或廢止職業執照但由第10條第2項鎖定執行者不適用之"},{"start":12043.417,"end":12071.128,"text":"二、植物診療機構經撤銷或廢止開業執照自處分確定日期尚未屆滿一年﹐申請人以相等或類似之名稱﹐在統一直轄市或縣市區域內提出申請﹐或由統一負責植物診療師﹐在原址或其他處所﹐申請設立植物診療機構﹐但依第23條規定廢止開業執照者不是用之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第23條"},{"start":12074.191,"end":12086.165,"text":"23.職務審量機構有先業、停業或原單技術相變更者因此事實發生之日起算30日內有副業者因此副業前30日內依項令規定辦理1."},{"start":12086.165,"end":12087.707,"text":"先業報原方開業職業執照"},{"start":12090.33,"end":12091.831,"text":"1.機關廢止開業執照2."},{"start":12091.831,"end":12096.554,"text":"停業或復業,報原發開業執照,機關被查3."},{"start":12096.554,"end":12105.341,"text":"原申請開業等級事項變更,報原發開業執照,機關許可但遷移至其他職項是限時者,應依第19條第一項規定辦理職務者兩機構停業超過一年者,是為歇業由原發開業執照機關廢止及開業執照依第一項規定辦理時,應同時辦理所屬"},{"start":12119.631,"end":12142.91,"text":"職務診療師之先夜、停夜、復夜或值夜登記事項變更第一項申報廢紙備償申請開業登記事項變更之程序應檢附文件、開業執照註記、換發註銷與第二項停業時間之認定及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第24條"},{"start":12144.195,"end":12148.596,"text":"第24條 職務診療機構應將即開業執照、職務診療師職業執照、診療時間及其他診療規則懸掛於明顯處所職務診療機構之開業執照或職務診療師之職業執照毀損、滅失或遺失時應即向原發開業或職業執照機關申請換發或補發宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第25條"},{"start":12170.723,"end":12185.843,"text":"第25條非植物診療機構或植物診療師不得為植物診療廣告植物診療機構及植物診療師對其業務不得登載、宣佈、虛偽之廣告宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第26條"},{"start":12187.062,"end":12215.737,"text":"第26條 職務診療機構應提供收費明細表及收據 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第27條第27條 主管機關依本犯合法職務診療稅證書職業執照及開業執照等應收取費用其收費標準由中央主管機關定之 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第4章第4章法則 宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過 請宣讀第28條"},{"start":12217.011,"end":12226.658,"text":"第28條 植物診療機構拼證獲容留非領有植物診療師證書者﹐算自執行植物診療師簽證業務﹐處新台幣3萬元以上15萬元相還﹐並得費準期開業執照"},{"start":12232.262,"end":12253.712,"text":"植物診療機構有項列前行之一者除新台幣3萬元以上15萬元相還款5年內再次違反者得病處1個月以上1年下至停業處分依《聘任或容留》第29條、第30條、第35條第一項規定受一定期間停業處分或廢止職業執照之植物診療師從事植物診療師簽證業務"},{"start":12257.834,"end":12278.011,"text":"2.管理上有明顯疏失﹐指當人蒙用職業植物診療師簽章﹐或編造起簽署之診療紀錄﹐植物有害生物鑑定報告﹐植物易病蟲害之診斷書﹐防制意見書或相關植物健康證明文件宣讀完畢到審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第29條"},{"start":12279.673,"end":12303.402,"text":"第29條 植物診療室有下列情形之一者除新台幣3萬元以上15萬元下罰款五年內再次違反者得併處一個月以上一年家庭業處分或廢止其職業執照依違反第13條 規定製作與診療室時不符之診療紀錄或開立於診療紀錄不符之植物有害生物檢定報告"},{"start":12305.563,"end":12318.916,"text":"職務異併寵害之診斷書防制意見書或相關職務健康證明文件五違反第15條規定順政府有關機關詢問或委託鑑定時為虛偽之陳述或報告三違反第16條規定對於職務異併寵害防制事項未遵從主管機關之指揮宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第30條"},{"start":12330.407,"end":12353.236,"text":"第30條植物診療師違反第17條規定將其證書或紙頁執照租借他人使用儲新台幣3萬元以上15萬元消防環並令其限期改善及其未改善者按次處罰緊接重蹈者並得廢紙及植物診療師證書及紙頁執照宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第31條"},{"start":12354.878,"end":12363.448,"text":"第31條違本第7條第一項規定﹐非領有職務診療師證書者﹐擅自執行職務診療師簽證業務﹐處信台幣3萬元以上15萬元相罰還﹐宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第32條"},{"start":12371.96,"end":12388.508,"text":"第32條 職務責僚是有項鍊且行之一者﹐處心臺幣5,000元以上額外5,000元相還還﹐並令其限期改善﹐既其未改善則按此處罰﹐以違反第9條第一項規定﹐未向登記職業機構所在地﹐直銷市縣市儲管機關﹐申請職業執照而執業"},{"start":12393.151,"end":12401.079,"text":"2.違反第9條第3項規定,未於一定期間完成繼續教育獲取的積分或辦理職業執照更新3."},{"start":12401.079,"end":12402.6,"text":"違第11條第1項規定,辦理歇業、停業、復業或原申請職業登記事項之變更"},{"start":12408.385,"end":12430.254,"text":"請違反第13條第二項規定執行業務未以中文製作診療記錄或未將診療記錄交由職業機構保存或違反議第13條第三項鎖定公告有關診療記錄應記載實項製作方式持規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過陳樹越委員等提案第32條不予採納請宣讀第33條"},{"start":12434.414,"end":12452.704,"text":"第三十三條由下列執行之一者除新台幣三千元以上一萬五千元以下之罰款並令其限期改善藉其為改善者按次處罰依違反第六條規定非領有職務診療師證書者使用職務診療師或易使人誤認為職務診療師之名稱二職務診療師違反第十二條第一項規定未加入職業端進處所所在地職務診療師公會而執業"},{"start":12464.41,"end":12479.075,"text":"③職務閘僚施工會違反第12條第二項規定拒絕具有會員資格者入會④職業機構違反第13條第三項鎖定公告有關閘僚記錄保存方式或保存年限制規定⑤違反第18條第2項規定規避、妨礙或拒絕主管機關之檢查"},{"start":12484.796,"end":12486.437,"text":"6.違反第19條第1項規定為領有開業執照而開業或職務診療機構經撤銷或非職務開業執照人開業經營7.職務診療機構違第19條第2項鎖定標準設置8.非職務診療機構違反第21條第1項規定"},{"start":12503.786,"end":12530.758,"text":"使用職務診療機構或亦使人誤認為職務診療機構之名稱或職務診療機構違反一、第二十一條第二項鎖定公告有關名稱使用及變更原則之規定九、職務診療機構違反一、第二十三條第一項規定辦理歇業、停業、敷業或原申請看業等警示項之變更十、職務診療機構違反第二十四條第一項規定"},{"start":12531.258,"end":12535.042,"text":"未將看頁診照、植物診療師職業診照、診療時間及其他診療規則懸掛於明顯處所11、非植物診療機構或植物診療師違反第25條定性規定為植物診療廣告12、植物診療機構或植物"},{"start":12550.235,"end":12567.401,"text":"治療、診療師違反第25條第二項規定對其業務登載或宣布虛偽之廣告十三職務診療機構違反第26條規定未提供收費明細表及收據職務診療機構經撤銷或廢止開業執照仍繼續以開業者處以前項第六款規定處罰外並得廢止其負責職務診療師之證書宣讀完畢"},{"start":12578.167,"end":12600.997,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第34條第34條植物診療是違反第14條規定為指示防治及隔離方法或位於24小時內將植物種類有害生物名稱植物所有人或管理人之姓名及住址通報主管機關者除新台幣3000元以上15000元以下罰還宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第35條"},{"start":12604.656,"end":12626.251,"text":"第35條職務診療師受停業處分人執行業務者非准其職業執照依本法受撤銷或非職業執照處分人執行業務者非准其職務診療師證書職務診療機構受停業處分而不停業者非准其開業執照宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第36條"},{"start":12628.052,"end":12649.961,"text":"第36條本法所定罰緩停業﹑推銷廢止職業執照或開業執照﹑由直轄市或縣市主管機關為之﹑推銷廢止職務展瞭試證書﹑由中央主管機關為之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第5章第5章公會宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第37條"},{"start":12651.4,"end":12677.683,"text":"第37條 植物診療師工會分為下六級一 直轄市及縣市植物診療師工會二 全國植物診療師工會聯合會宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第38條第38條 各級植物診療師工會以行政區域為其組織區域在統一區域內統齊職工會以一個為限宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第39條"},{"start":12679.4,"end":12700.387,"text":"第39條 直轄市縣市植物診療師工會已在該區域申請職業登記之植物診療師9人以上發起組織之其不滿9人者得加入鄰近區域之工會或共同組織之全國植物診療師工會聯合會之設立應由三分之一以上之直轄市縣市植物診療師工會完成組織後"},{"start":12702.868,"end":12727.916,"text":"指責發起組織直銷師及縣市植物診療師公會應加入全國植物診療師公會聯合會為會員宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第40條第40條各級植物診療師公會由社會行政主管機關主管但其目的事業應受主管機關之指導監督宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第41條"},{"start":12729.246,"end":12745.778,"text":"第41條各級職務診療師工會之理事監事均於召開會員代表大會時由會員代表選舉之並分別成立理事會監事會其名額容項一、只詳述縣市職務診療師工會之理事不得超過15人二、全國職務診療師工會聯合會之理事不得超過35人三、各級職務診療師工會之監事名額"},{"start":12754.904,"end":12780.145,"text":"不得超過各該公會理事名額三分之一各級職務斬糧師公會均致候補理事、候補監事其名額不得超過各該理事監事名額三分之一其向理事監事名額在3人以上時﹐能分別互選常務理事及常務監事其名額不得超過理事或監事總額三分之一並依招審規定選舉議長為理事長"},{"start":12782.447,"end":12791.018,"text":"理事監事責任其均為3年其連續連任者不得超過二分之一理事長之連任以疑似違憲宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第42條"},{"start":12796.616,"end":12797.016,"text":"審查會條文通過請宣讀第43條"},{"start":12813.786,"end":12828.439,"text":"第43條各級職務者糧食工會中曾因在名下列示色一、名稱二、宗旨三、區域四、會址五、任務六、組織七、會員之入會、退會及除名八、會員之權利及義務"},{"start":12829.499,"end":12837.004,"text":"9.理事監事及會員代表實名額,全縣任期選任及檢任10.會議11."},{"start":12837.004,"end":12839.205,"text":"會員應遵守制公約12."},{"start":12839.205,"end":12840.946,"text":"會員經費及會計13."},{"start":12840.946,"end":12842.708,"text":"章程之修改14."},{"start":12842.708,"end":12847.07,"text":"其他依法令規定應在民事事項宣讀完畢在審查會條文通過請宣讀第44條"},{"start":12849.963,"end":12874.116,"text":"第44條各級職務閘僚式公會應將下列各管事項分佈社會行政主管機關及主管機關以會員名冊及會員制入會、退會、任理監事選舉進行及當選人姓名、三會員大會理事會及監事會開會執會議記錄至終成片根宣讀完畢到審查會條文通過請宣讀第45條"},{"start":12875.305,"end":12891.016,"text":"第45條 各級職務診療師公會會員代表大會或理監事會議之決議有違反法令者由社會行政主管機關撤銷之請向主辦必要時亦得由主管機關為之宣讀完畢"},{"start":12894.502,"end":12921.86,"text":"第46條 職務者了事公會會員有違憤法令或張傳之行為者公會得以禮監事會議或會員代表大會之決議處分之其應受處名處分者須經會員代表大會通過將其事實、證據、報警社會、行政、主管機關轉請、主管機關核准予以處名宣讀完畢照常常會條文通過請宣讀第6章第6章負責宣讀完畢"},{"start":12923.911,"end":12936.556,"text":"照審查會章文通過請宣讀第47條第47條 植物小僚是對植物防疫檢疫或其他植物保護業務有重大貢獻者主管機關應與獎勵 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀48條"},{"start":12940.595,"end":12966.767,"text":"第48條外國人得以中華民國法律應植物診療師考試前項考試及格擬有植物診療師證書之外國人適用本法及其他有關植物診療師之法令宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第49條第49條農役原業及林業技師依技師法及其他相關法規執行業務不適用本法之規定宣讀完畢"},{"start":12967.475,"end":12991.441,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第50條第50條本法修行細則由中央主管機構定制照審查會條文通過請宣讀第51條第51條本法自公佈日施行宣讀完畢報告院會全案經過二讀現有民進黨...照審查會條文通過報告院會全案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議"},{"start":12997.844,"end":13016.218,"text":"沒有異議：我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文《植物診療師法》第一章總則第一條為提升植物保護水準強化植物防疫前預計高風險農藥之使用管理建立植物診療師專業服務體系特制定本法"},{"start":13018.41,"end":13034.731,"text":"第二條本法所稱主管機關在中央委農業部在主轄市為主轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府第三條中華民國國民經植物診療師考試及格並領有植物診療師證書者得充任植物診療師"},{"start":13036.813,"end":13056.637,"text":"第4條請領職務診療師證書應填具申請書並檢附資格證明文件﹐送請中央主管機關和發支第5條有下令前行之一者不得充任職務診療師﹐亦充任者徹效獲費准期職務診療師證書﹐一,依專門職業及技術人員考試法規定﹐經追修職務診療師考試及格資格順位屆滿3年"},{"start":13064.239,"end":13086.295,"text":"二、因執行植物斬療業務上有關之故意犯罪行為,受一年有期徒刑以上刑職判決確定,而未受緩刑之宣告,但與刑職執行完畢或赦免後已滿二年者不再此限。三、曾經賺銷或廢止植物斬療事證書,自處分確定日期尚未屆滿二年。"},{"start":13088.274,"end":13090.718,"text":"6.非領有職務診療師證書者不得使用職務診療師或亦使人誤認為職務診療師之名稱"},{"start":13099.54,"end":13123.85,"text":"第二章 職業 第7條非領有職務診療師證書者﹐獲得執行職務有害生物鑑定報告﹐職務疫病重範制診斷書﹐防制意見書及相關職務健康證明文件之簽證業務但機關構依法規執行檢看文件之簽證者不在此限職務診療師除執行前項簽證業務外﹐並得辦理下列事項"},{"start":13124.73,"end":13143.854,"text":"一、植物有害生物之診斷及鑑定二、植物特定有害生物之監測及調查三、植物有害生物綜合防制技術、藥劑與資材使用之指導及推廣四、植物生理障礙之診斷及治療五、其他法規規定由植物診療師辦理之業務第一項索刪簽證指植物"},{"start":13149.876,"end":13164.327,"text":"診療師一、業務事件主管機關執法規﹐執行職務有害事務者診斷﹐禁令或推薦防制管理方法﹐作成報告診斷書﹐防診意見書或證明文件﹐並與其受簽名或改章"},{"start":13166.69,"end":13187.947,"text":"第8條 植物診療須知職業機構如效一、植物診療機構二、事由農業相關科系所學位或學成之大專校院三、農會或農業生產運銷合作社四、農業事業研究機構五、農藥生產業或販賣業者六、其他經中央主管機關認可之機構"},{"start":13190.953,"end":13197.535,"text":"9.職務診療師應則依你職業之職業機構﹐向該機構所在地﹐指向是縣市主管機關申請職業登記﹐領有職業執照時的職業﹐職務診療師於取得職業執照後﹐等於全國執行業務﹐職務診療師職業﹐應於一定期間﹐完成繼續教育﹐並取得積分﹐辦理職業執照更新"},{"start":13215.962,"end":13236.87,"text":"第一項申請職業登記之資格條件程序應檢附文件登記項職業執照發給換發、補發、更新與前項繼續教育之一定期間課程內容、計分實施方式、完成繼續教育之認定證明文件取得及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":13238.291,"end":13250.808,"text":"第10條 植物診療師有下令起刑之意者﹐不得發給職業執照﹐以0者撤銷或廢止之﹐一、第5條規定不得充任植物診療師﹐二、經撤銷或廢止植物診療師職業執照﹐"},{"start":13253.391,"end":13280.999,"text":"自處分確定日期尚未屆滿一年但依定是一條規定廢止職業執照者不幸用之三、受監護或輔助宣告尚未撤銷四、有客戶安全時仍不能執行業務經執詳時縣市主管機關邀請相關專科醫師職務治療師及學者專家組成相處占地傾向第三款或第四款原因消失後人等應協調第一項規定申請職業執照"},{"start":13284.281,"end":13303.317,"text":"第11條職務者療師有先業停業或原申請職業登記事項變更者因此事實發生之日起算30日內有副業者因此副業前30日內依下列規定辦理一、先業報原發職業執照機關廢止職業執照二、停業或副業報原發職業執照機關被查三、原申請職業登記事項變更報原發職業執照機關許可"},{"start":13313.598,"end":13327.386,"text":"但登記職業機構遷移至其他指轄市縣市職業者應依第9條第一項規定辦理職務者療師停業超過一年者是為歇業由原發職業執照及溫費準期職業執照"},{"start":13329.887,"end":13348.951,"text":"第一項申報廢止被查申請職業登記事項變更之程序應解副文件職業執照註記換發入校與前項停業時限制認定及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之第12條職務展瞭師職業應加入職業登記處所所在地職務展瞭師工會"},{"start":13355.686,"end":13359.254,"text":"吉武展覽盛公會不得拒絕具有會員資格者入會"},{"start":13361.38,"end":13379.229,"text":"第13條 植物診療師執行業務應製作診療記錄前內容應與診療事實相符植物診療師開列之植物有害生物鑑定報告植物疫病重範之診斷書防制一件收穫相關植物健康證明文件之內容應與診療記錄相符前項診療記錄應以中文製作並將由職業機構妥善保存"},{"start":13386.833,"end":13400.32,"text":"第一項診療記錄之印記在事項與前項診療記錄之製作保存方設及保存連線由中央主管機關公告之第14條職務診療師於執行業務時發現在中華民國未有發生記錄之有害生物"},{"start":13405.863,"end":13424.149,"text":"除指示防治及隔離方法外：應將職務種類、有害生物名稱、職務所有人或管理人之姓名及住址於24小時內通報主管機關第15條職務者療師受政府有關機關詢問或委託簽訂時不得為虛偽之陳述或報告"},{"start":13428.67,"end":13450.735,"text":"第16條職務診療師對於職務異病寵害防治事項：有遵從主管機關指揮之義務第17條職務診療師不得將職務診療師證書或職業執照租借他人使用第18條主管機關為經常取締違反本法規定之行為必用時才進入職務診療師職業機構先有或5年內才有執行職務診療師業務"},{"start":13457.137,"end":13472.519,"text":"及其他與職務、診療室業務有關之場所檢查任何人不得規避、妨礙或拒絕主管機關執行前向職務之人員應向關係人出示有關執行職務之證明文件或顯示足資辨別之標誌"},{"start":13476.158,"end":13503.266,"text":"第三章 職務閘僚機構管理第19條 職務閘僚機構應向所在地只想順縣市主管機關﹐申請開業登記﹐領有開業執照使得開業前項申請開業登記之資格、條件﹐程序應解副文件﹐登記事項、開業執照發給、換發、補發﹐其他相關事項之辦法及職務閘僚機構設置之標準﹐由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":13505.27,"end":13509.354,"text":"第二選條 植物斬療機構應職負責植物斬療師一人自然燃燒列車植物斬療機構以其申請人為負責植物斬療師﹐對其斬療業務負督的職責"},{"start":13520.851,"end":13535.138,"text":"第21條非植物診療機構不得使用植物診療機構或亦使人物認為植物診療機構則名稱植物診療機構名稱則使用即變更原則由中央主管機關公告之"},{"start":13536.98,"end":13558.828,"text":"第二十二條,依第十九條規定申請開業登記有效率執行之一者﹐不得發給開業執照﹐已臨者撤銷或廢止之一,申請人或負責職務診療時﹐依第十條第一項規定不得發給執業執照﹐或經撤銷或廢止執業執照﹐但由第十條第二項所定,執行者不是用之"},{"start":13559.568,"end":13578.972,"text":"二、植物診療機構經撤銷或廢止開業執照﹐自處分確定日期尚未屆滿一年﹐申請人以相同或類似尊名稱﹐在同一職轄市或縣市區域內提出申請﹐或由同一負責植物診療師﹐在原址或其他處所申請設立植物診療機構﹐但依第23條規定廢止開業執照則不是用之"},{"start":13587.936,"end":13600.085,"text":"23.職務責僚機構有先業、停業或原登記事項變更者﹐因此事實發生之日起算30日內﹐有復業者因自復業前30日內依下列規定辦理1."},{"start":13600.085,"end":13601.486,"text":"先業報原發開業絕招、機關廢止開業絕招2."},{"start":13601.486,"end":13602.847,"text":"停業或復業報原發開業絕招、機關被查3."},{"start":13602.847,"end":13604.408,"text":"原申請開業登記事項變更、報原發開業絕招、機關許可"},{"start":13614.696,"end":13617.129,"text":"但牽引著其他只想要順現事者"},{"start":13617.622,"end":13624.004,"text":"應依第19條第一項規定辦理職務診療機構停業超過一年者身為歇業由原方開業執照機關費準期開業執照依第一項規定辦理時應同時辦理所屬職務診療師之歇業、停業、復業或職業登記事項變更第一項申報費值備償申請開業登記事項變更這程序應檢附文件、開業執照註記"},{"start":13646.592,"end":13653.487,"text":"會報注銷與第二項庭議的時間之認定即其他相關事項之變法由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":13655.615,"end":13659.719,"text":"24.職務診療機構應將即開業執照、職務診療師職業執照、診療時間及其他診療規則懸掛於明顯處所職務診療機構之開業執照或職務診療師之職業執照毀損、滅製或已失實,應即向原發開業或職業執照機關申請換發或補發"},{"start":13681.533,"end":13706.04,"text":"第25條非植物診療機構或植物診療師不得為植物診療廣告植物診療機構及植物診療師對其業務不得登載、散布、虛偽之廣告第26條植物診療機構應提供收費明細表及收據第27條主管機關應本法合法植物診療師證書職業執照及開業執照等應收取費用"},{"start":13709.341,"end":13711.928,"text":"其收費標準由中央主管機關定制"},{"start":13713.359,"end":13740.331,"text":"第四章 法則 第28條職務診療機構聘證或容留﹐非領有職務診療師證書者﹐擅自執行職務診療師簽證業務﹐儲信台幣3萬元以上﹐15萬元相還﹐並得廢止及開業執照職務診療機構有項列情形之一者﹐儲信台幣3萬元以上﹐15萬元相還﹐5年內再次違反者﹐得病處1個月以上﹐1年下至停業處分"},{"start":13741.451,"end":13748.276,"text":"一、批認或容留議題29條第30條第35條第一項規定受一定期間停業處分或廢止職業執照之職務診療師從事職務診療師簽證業務二、管理上有明顯疏失至當人冒用職業職務診療師簽章或編造其簽署之診療記錄"},{"start":13764.71,"end":13772.148,"text":"職務有害生物鑑定報告職務疫病重範疾診斷書防治意見書或相關職務健康證明文件"},{"start":13774.246,"end":13798.665,"text":"第29條 職務診療師有下令執行之意者除新台幣3萬元以上15萬元下班還5年內再次違反者等病處1個月以上1年下庭業處分或廢除其職業執照依違反第13條第一項規定製作與診療事實不符之診療記錄或堪利於診療記錄不符之職務有限生物鑑定報告"},{"start":13799.546,"end":13820.806,"text":"植物疫病蟲害支撐端疏防治意見書或相關植物健康證明文件二、違反第15條規定受政府有關機關詢問或委託鑑定時為需為之陳述或報告三、違反第16條規定對於植物疫病蟲害防制事項未遵從主管機關之指揮"},{"start":13823.206,"end":13841.597,"text":"第30條職務斬療師違反第17條規定將其證書或職業執照租借他人使用從新台幣3萬元以上15萬元銷花還並令其限期改善即其未改善者按次處罰請前重蹈者並得廢止其職務斬療師證書及職業執照"},{"start":13846.584,"end":13856.232,"text":"第31條違反第7條第一項規定﹐非領有植物診療師證書者﹐擅自執行植物診療師簽證業務﹐除薪貸幣3萬元以上15萬元下返還第32條植物診療師有項鍊其行之意者﹐"},{"start":13863.738,"end":13876.712,"text":"除新台幣五千元以上二萬五千元相反還並令其限期改善即其未改善只按次處罰依《違反第九條》第一項規定未向登記職業機構所在地只詳視縣市主管機關申請職業執照或職業"},{"start":13881.26,"end":13892.065,"text":"二、違反第9條第3項規定未與一定期間完成繼續教育獲取的積分或辦理職業執照更新三、未依第11條第1項規定辦理歇業、停業、復業或原申請職業登記事項之變更"},{"start":13897.929,"end":13905.454,"text":"4.違反第13條第二項規定執行業務未以中文製作診療記錄或未將診療記錄將由職業機構保存或違反1.13條第三項鎖定公告有關診療記錄應記載實行製作方式之規定"},{"start":13917.199,"end":13930.586,"text":"第33條有下令其行政一者處心臺幣三千元以上一萬五千元向之罰還並令其限期改善即其未改善者按次處罰依違反第6條規定非領有職務診療師證書者使用職務診療師或亦使人物認為職務診療師之名稱"},{"start":13938.61,"end":13963.468,"text":"二、職務診療師違反地屬條第一項規定未加入職業登記處所所在地職務診療師工會而職業三、職務診療師工會違反地屬條第二項規定拒絕具有會員資格者入會四、職業機構違反地屬條第三項鎖定公告有關診療記錄保存方式或保存年限制規定五、"},{"start":13964.128,"end":13969.995,"text":"委本地18條第一項規定規避妨礙或拒絕主管機關之檢查6."},{"start":13969.995,"end":13972.498,"text":"委本地19條第一項規定為領有開業絕招而開業或職務診療機構經串銷貨費者開業絕招人開業經營"},{"start":13981.107,"end":13986.211,"text":"7.植物斬療機構委議第19條第二項鎖定標準設置8."},{"start":13986.211,"end":14006.847,"text":"非植物斬療機構違反第21條第一項規定使用植物斬療機構或易使人物認為植物斬療機構遵名稱或植物斬療機構違反一第21條第二項鎖定公告有關名稱使用及變更原則之規定求植物斬療機構委議第23條第一項規定辦理歇業"},{"start":14010.089,"end":14016.471,"text":"停業、復業或原申請看業登記事項之變更十、職務診療機構違反第24條第一項規定未將看業舉證、職務診療師職業舉證、診療時間及其他診療規則懸掛於明顯處所十一、非職務診療機構或職務診療師違反第25條第一項規定為職務診療廣告十二、職務診療機構或職務診療"},{"start":14037.478,"end":14043.6,"text":"職務診療師違反第25條第二項規定對其業務登載或散布虛偽之廣告學生職務診療機構違反第26條規定未提供收費明細表及數據職務診療機構經推薦或廢止開業決策仍繼續開業者除因前項第6款規定處罰外並得廢止其負責職務診療師執政書"},{"start":14064.775,"end":14082.855,"text":"第34條 職務小僚是違反第14條規定﹐未解釋防稅及隔離方法﹐或未於24小時內﹐將職務種類、有害生物名稱﹐職務所有人或管理人之姓名及住址﹐通報主管機關者﹐除息台幣3000元以上、15000元相發還"},{"start":14085.738,"end":14099.01,"text":"第35條 職務診療師受停業處分﹚人執行業務者非准其職業執照﹚依本法受撤銷或廢准職業執照處分﹚人執行業務者非准其職務診療師證書﹚職務診療機構受停業處分﹚而不停業者非准其看業執照"},{"start":14106.856,"end":14125.763,"text":"第36條本法鎖定防緩停業、吹消廢止職業絕招或開業絕招由職轄市或縣市主管機關為之吹消廢止職務斬糧師證書由中央主管機關為之第5章 公會第37條職務斬糧師公會分為下列二級一、職轄市極限式職務斬糧師公會二、全國職務斬糧師公會聯合會"},{"start":14135.598,"end":14159.616,"text":"第38條 各級職務診療施工會以行政區域為其組織區域在同一區域內同級職工會以一個違憲第39條 指轄聖先日職務診療施工會以在該區域申請職業登記之職務診療師9人以上方其組織之其不滿9人者等加入鄰近區域職工會或共同組織之"},{"start":14160.817,"end":14177.884,"text":"全國植物診療師工會聯合會局設立應由三分之一以上之居家市縣市植物診療師工會完成組織後使得方企組織居家市及縣市植物診療師工會應加入全國植物診療師工會聯合會為會員"},{"start":14181.977,"end":14190.805,"text":"第40條各級職務小僚事工會由社會行政主管機關主管但其目的事業應受主管機關之指導監督"},{"start":14193.482,"end":14215.493,"text":"第41條 各級職務者療生公會職理事監事均於召開會員代表大會時﹐由會員代表選舉之﹐並分別成立理事會監事會﹐其名額如下﹐一、指向市縣市職務者療生公會職理事不得超過15人二、全國職務者療生公會聯合會職理事不得超過35人"},{"start":14217.375,"end":14224.804,"text":"3.各級職務閘僚式公會之監事名額不得超過各該公會理事名額三分之一4."},{"start":14224.804,"end":14233.335,"text":"各級職務閘僚式公會均至後部理事、後部監事請名額不得超過各該理事監事名額三分之一"},{"start":14233.975,"end":14254.631,"text":"即將領事監事名額在三日以上時﹐得分別互選常務領事及常務監事﹐其名額不得超過領事或監事總額三分之一﹐並依章程規定選舉一人為領事長﹐領事監事責任僅均為三年﹐其連選連任者不得超過二分之一﹐領事長之連任也以一次違憲"},{"start":14256.372,"end":14269.333,"text":"第42條 職務者療程公會因另立忠誠造局或演名冊及選任職員檢例冊﹐送請社會行政主管機關核准立案﹐並因分報主管機關被查"},{"start":14271.28,"end":14295.249,"text":"第43條各級職務診療師公會中程應在名下列事項一、名稱二、總職三區域四、會址五、任務六、組織七、會員兼入會、退會及署名八、會員兼權利及營務九、理事監事及會員代表證明額全縣任期選任及前任十、會議十一、會員應遵守持公約十二、會員經費及會計"},{"start":14297.29,"end":14321.984,"text":"十三,忠誠之修改十四,其他依法令規定應在民之實效第44條,各級職務者糧食工會應將下列各款事項﹐分報社會行政主管機關及主管機關﹐一,會員名稱及會員簽入會、退會﹐二,禮監事選舉情形及當選人姓名﹐三,會員大會、禮事會及監事會﹐開會人員會議記錄﹐四,忠誠變更"},{"start":14327.406,"end":14353.057,"text":"第45條 各級職務職療師公會會員﹐代表大會或禮監事會議之決議﹐由違反法令者﹐由社會行政主管機關撤銷之請向處分必要時亦得由主管機關為之第46條 職務職療師公會會員﹐由違反法令或章程之行為者﹐公會得以禮監事會議﹐或會員代表大會之決議﹐處分之"},{"start":14355.138,"end":14371.466,"text":"其應受署名處分者、虛心會員、代表大會通過將其事實證據報請社會行政主管機關轉請主管機關核准予以除名第6章 負責第47條職務責僚是對職務防疫檢疫或其他職務保護業務有重大貢獻者主管機關應予獎勵"},{"start":14379.983,"end":14393.412,"text":"第48條外國人得依中華民國法律應職務診療師考試前項考試及格領有職務診療師這處置外國人適用本法及其他有關職務診療施設法令"},{"start":14395.236,"end":14412.736,"text":"第49條,農役員役及林業界師依據施法及其他相關法規執行業務,不適用本法之規定。第50條,本法實行系則由中央主管機關定制。第51條,本法自公佈日實行,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":14425.694,"end":14446.79,"text":"報告委員會我們現在三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議職務診療司法制定通過報告委員會現在我們處理審查會所作之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容通過附帶決議一項"},{"start":14452.748,"end":14477.662,"text":"請農業部於本法公布後應就法則部分定定一致性質裁罰基準以供各縣市主管機關遵行宣讀完畢求議院會對附帶決議有無異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過報議院會現在我們完成立法程序後發言首先請登記第一號羅廷偉委員發言"},{"start":14489.889,"end":14516.858,"text":"好 謝謝院長各位植物診療師讓你們久等了植物診療師法從2006年討論到現在一度因為名稱的關係而擱置導致一線的植物診療師從業人員心灰意冷如今歷史的一刻終於三讀了隨著氣候變遷貿易往來頻繁產業型態的快速轉變台灣的植物保護我們的問題日益複雜"},{"start":14518.038,"end":14543.469,"text":"各種病重害、生理障礙以及不斷的增多若不加以適當的防制將導致農業巨大的虧損我們消費者對農產品的安全問題關注也日益提升我自己是三寶奶爸對於台中市我們的營養午餐曾驗出農藥殘留也非常的擔憂這是一個不容忽視的議題"},{"start":14544.77,"end":14547.673,"text":"《職務診療師法》將確立職療師專業的地位納入專業的職業及技術人員的範疇明確訂定業務範圍、責任、機構及設立的規範從而提升服務品質及專業度"},{"start":14561.425,"end":14586.642,"text":"其透過這次的制定將給予植物證料師正式的頭銜以及考照的制度使證料師能夠更好地發揮專業的能力同時也落實了食品安全從源頭來做一個管理責任三讀通過以後我們希望農業部要有善盡責任將農畜、農業以及生態維護打好基本功"},{"start":14587.182,"end":14614.601,"text":"透過專業化的植物並蟲害防制促使農業生產能夠有效率的提升同時更能夠確保農產品在安全、品質台灣是全球第一個制定植物診療師專法的國家我們都很驕傲我們僅將此法獻給植物診療師的從業人員你們的努力、倡議都會有所回報我們一起共同"},{"start":14620.274,"end":14627.699,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員的發言報告委員會稍後會議到此為止下午3點繼續開會進行後續討論事項另外也請各黨團幹部下午3點至紅樓302會室進行協商現在休息"},{"start":14801.613,"end":14801.971,"text":"請審議"},{"start":18432.442,"end":18432.545,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":20151.886,"end":20152.363,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":23497.096,"end":23521.241,"text":"法院會現在繼續開會進行討論事項第18案洗錢防治法修正草案請宣讀審查報告本月司法及法制委員會於113年5月23日分別及6月3日分別撰開全體委員會議併案審查本案由中召集委員嘉賓擔任主席除邀請提案委員及黨團說明提案要指外"},{"start":23521.781,"end":23550.776,"text":"相關機關應邀示派代表列席說明並答覆委員詢問與會委員於聽取報告並詢談完畢審略大體討論進行主調審查並將全案審查完畢令通過附帶決議二項原經決議本案審查完畢擬具審查報告提醒公會公決須建構黨團協商約會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓出席說明宣讀完畢請召集委員、中委員嘉賓補充說明"},{"start":23552.461,"end":23571.14,"text":"無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外委員林怡瑾等、委員蔡奕宇等分別提案經第一會期第18次會議決定近夫二讀與相關提案併案協商報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":23574.744,"end":23590.644,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月11日星期四上午10時30分地點一廠三樓會議室協商主題習堅防治法修正草案協商結論一第五條照協商內容通過降如復見"},{"start":23591.705,"end":23609.363,"text":"二、第19條保留送院會處理三、第24條照行政院提案通過四、其餘均照審查會審查結果通過五、新增附帶決議四項,相如附件六、院會進行處理時非保留部分,宣讀後均予以通過"},{"start":23610.592,"end":23639.87,"text":"保留部分暫保留保留部分院會進行處理前由各黨團推派一人依台灣民眾黨黨團、民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團順序輪流發言免得發言時間3分鐘發言完畢後各該保留條文均不再發言即進行各保留條文之處理協商主持人韓國瑜江啟臣協商代表傅坤吉、林思明、洪孟凱、柯建民、莊瑞雄、吳世堯、鍾嘉斌、黃國昌、黃珊珊、吳春城宣讀完畢"},{"start":23641.58,"end":23670.285,"text":"請問院會對以上協商結論有異議、無異議本案主條討論時竟依協商結論處理《洗錢防制法》請宣讀第一條第一條為防制洗錢導致犯罪健全防制洗錢體系穩定金融秩序促集金流之透明強化無盡合作特區領本法宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第二條"},{"start":23671.004,"end":23694.944,"text":"第二條本法所證實前指下列行為一、隱匿特定犯罪所得或掩飾其來源二、妨礙或危害國家對於特定犯罪所得之調查發現保全陌生或追偵三、收受持有或使用他人之特定犯罪所得四、使用自己之特定犯罪所得與他人進行交易宣討完畢照審查會條例通過第三條"},{"start":23696.439,"end":23707.629,"text":"本法所稱特定犯罪指下列各款之罪依最近本行為6月以上有期徒刑之罪若刑法第121條、第123條、第201條之一第二項、第231條、第233條第一項、第235條、第一項、第二項、第266條、第一項、第二項、第268條"},{"start":23716.477,"end":23726.61,"text":"第319條之一第二項第三項及該二項之未遂犯第319條之三第四項而犯第一項及其未遂犯第319條之四第三項第339條第339條之二第339條之三第342條第344條第一項"},{"start":23735.541,"end":23741.906,"text":"第349條、第358條之第362條之罪全資走私條例第2條、第一項、第二項、第三條之罪破甩法第154條、第155條之罪商標法第95條、第96條之罪商業關係法第71條、第72條之罪"},{"start":23756.738,"end":23762.282,"text":"7.稅捐期徵法第41條、第1項、第42條及第43條、第1項、第2項之罪8.政府採供法第87條、第3項、第5項、第6項、第89條、第91條、第1項、第3項之罪9.電子支付機構管理條例第46條、第2項、第3項、第47條之罪"},{"start":23777.132,"end":23779.754,"text":"10.證券交易法第172條之罪11."},{"start":23779.754,"end":23782.757,"text":"期貨交易法第113條之罪12."},{"start":23782.757,"end":23787.602,"text":"資管防制法第8條、第9條、第1項、第2項、第4項之罪13."},{"start":23787.602,"end":23790.484,"text":"本法第21條之罪14."},{"start":23790.484,"end":23792.286,"text":"組織犯罪防制條例第3條、第2項、第4項、第5項之罪15."},{"start":23792.286,"end":23793.667,"text":"營業秘密法第13條之一、第1項、第2項之罪"},{"start":23799.793,"end":23807.339,"text":"16.人口販運防治法 第30條 第1項 第3項 第31條 第2項 第5項 第33條之最17."},{"start":23807.339,"end":23811.463,"text":"入出國籍移民法 第73條 第74條之最18."},{"start":23811.463,"end":23813.284,"text":"食品安全衛生管理法 第49條 第1項 第2項前段 第5項之最19."},{"start":23813.284,"end":23814.345,"text":"做作權法 第91條 第1項 第91條之一 第1項 第2項"},{"start":23821.531,"end":23830.574,"text":"総統、副總統選舉報名法第88條之一第一項、第二項、第四項之罪21公職人員選舉報名法第103條之一第一項、第二項、第四項之罪宣讀完畢"},{"start":23840.56,"end":23859.255,"text":"第4條本法所稱特定犯罪所得只分第3條所列之特定犯罪而取得或辨得之財產或財產上利益及其自習前項特定犯罪所得之認定不以其所犯特定犯罪經有罪判決為必要宣討完畢照審查會條文通過第5條"},{"start":23860.185,"end":23872.919,"text":"第5條本法所稱金融機構包括下列機構一、銀行、二、信託投資公司、三、信用合作社、四、農會信用部、五、漁會信用部、六、全國農業金庫、七、辦理儲金會對、檢疫、人生保險、義務制、郵政機構、"},{"start":23876.623,"end":23903.158,"text":"8.票券金融公司9.信用卡公司10.保險公司11.證券商12.證券投資信託事業13.證券金融事業14.證券投資部門事業15.證券集中保管事業16.期貨商17.信託業18.其他經營目的事業主管機關指定制金融機構辦理融資性租賃提供虛擬資權服務之事業或人員使用本法關於金融機構之規定"},{"start":23903.978,"end":23921.474,"text":"本法所稱決定之非金融事業或人員只從事下列交易之事業或人員一、銀龍業二、地政事及不動產經濟業從事與不動產門賣交易有關之行為三、律師、工證人、會計師為客戶準備或進行下列交易時"},{"start":23922.515,"end":23937.373,"text":"一、買賣不動產﹚二、管理客戶金錢、證券或其他資產﹚三、管理銀行儲蓄或證券帳戶﹚四、有關提供公司設立營運或管理之資金存換﹚五、法人戶化法律協議之設立營運或管理以及買賣事業體﹚"},{"start":23938.975,"end":23963.995,"text":"四、信託及公司服務提供業為客戶準備或進行下令交易時一、關於法人之籌備或設立事項二、擔任或安排他人擔任公司董事或秘書合夥之合夥人或在其他法人組織之類似職位三、提供公司合夥信託其他法人或協議註冊之辦公室營業地址、住居所通訊或管理地址"},{"start":23965.589,"end":23984.367,"text":"四、擔任或安排他人擔任行政或其他類似契約限職之受託人或其他相同角色五、擔任或安排他人擔任實職持股股東五、提供第三方支付服務知識業或人員六、其他業務特性或交易形態意味其前無犯罪利用知識業或從業人員"},{"start":23986.369,"end":24003.655,"text":"第二項辦理融資性租賃提供虛擬資產服務者事業或人員之範圍第三項第六款決定之非金融事業或人員其需用之交易型態其得不適用第12條第一項申報規定之前項各款事業或人員由防務部會統中央目的事業主管機關恩"},{"start":24005.216,"end":24027.368,"text":"報請行政院指定,第一項之第三項之金融機構事業或人員所從事這交易必要時,得由訪問部會同中央目的事業主管機關指定其達一定金額者,應使用現金以外之支付工具。第一項之第三項之金融機構事業或人員違反前項規定者,由中央目的事業主管機關處交易金額新。"},{"start":24028.488,"end":24046.767,"text":"二被以下罰還前六項之中央目的事業主管機關認定有異議者由行政院指定之第四項、第五項及前項者決定其事務者、司法院者由行政院會同司法院指定之宣讀完畢照協商條文通過第六條"},{"start":24047.898,"end":24071.67,"text":"第6條提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務之事業或人員未向中央目的事業主管儘管完成洗錢防制服務能量登記或登錄者不得提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務儘管設立之提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務之事業或人員非依公司法辦理公司或分公司設立登記並完成洗錢防制"},{"start":24072.19,"end":24087.159,"text":"服務能量登記或登錄者不得在我國境內提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員辦理前項洗錢防制登記追申請條件程序撤銷或廢止登記"},{"start":24089.882,"end":24116.494,"text":"虛擬資產上下架之審查機制防止不公正交易機制自由資產與客戶資產分離保管方式資訊系統與安全錢包管理機制及其他應遵行事上支辦法由中央目的事業主管機關定制提供第三方支付服務之事業或人員辦理第一項洗錢方式及服務能量登錄之申請條件、程序、秤箱或廢紙登錄及其他應遵行事上支辦法由中央目的事業主管機關定制"},{"start":24117.274,"end":24146.634,"text":"違反第1項規定未完成洗錢防制服務能量登記或登錄而提供虛擬資訊服務第三方支付服務或其洗錢防制登記經退銷或廢止服務能量登錄經廢止或失效而仍提供虛擬資訊服務第三方支付服務者除未聯銷有期徒刑均易獲科或併科信貸並無佩萬元銷罰金法人犯詐欺罪者處無處罰且行為人外對該法人亦可以前項10分以下之罰金"},{"start":24147.215,"end":24147.776,"text":"稍後審查會條文通過第7條"},{"start":24151.089,"end":24179.508,"text":"第7條 金融機構及指定制非金融事業或人員應依期前與資管風險及業務規模建立期前防制內部控制與結合制度其內容應包括下列事項一、防制期間及打擊資管制作業及控制程序二、定期舉辦或參加防制期間之在職訓練三、舉辦專責人員負責協調監督第一款事項之執行四、備制並定期更新防制期間及打擊資管風險評估報告"},{"start":24182.83,"end":24201.998,"text":"6.其他經中央目的事業主管機關指定之事項前項制度之執行,中央目的事業主管機關應定其查核,並得委託其他機關構法人或團體辦理。第1項制度之實施內容,作業程序,執行措施前項查核之方式,受委託之次的條件及其他應遵行事項之問法,"},{"start":24202.498,"end":24231.098,"text":"由中央目的事業主管機關匯商訪問部及相關機關定製與訂定前應徵詢問相關工會之意見原本第一項規定為建立制度或前項辦法中有關制度之實施內容、作業程序、執行措施之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關限期另期改善即其外改善則除金融機構新台幣50萬元雙億千萬元相發還除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上500萬元相發還並得按次處罰"},{"start":24232.659,"end":24257.654,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員規避拒絕或妨礙限定或非限定償還者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上500萬元下罰款除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上250萬元下罰款並得按次處罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第8條"},{"start":24258.544,"end":24275.935,"text":"第8條金融經過其指定之非金融事業或人員應進行確認客戶身份程序並留存其確認客戶身份程序所得資料其確認客戶身份程序應以風險為基礎並應包括實質受益人之審查傑向確認客戶身份程序所得資料應自業務關係中"},{"start":24278.436,"end":24287.222,"text":"致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年致賞保存5年"},{"start":24306.014,"end":24334.833,"text":"第一項確認客戶身份範圍、留存確認資料之範圍、程序、方式及前項加強客戶審查之範圍、程序、方式之方法由中央目的事業主管經貿會商、防務部及相關警官定之與定義前因爭取相關公會之意見前項重要政治性職務之人與其家庭成員及有密切關係之人之範圍由防務部定之違反第一項至第三項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關確認客戶身份、留存確認資料"},{"start":24335.894,"end":24359.187,"text":"加強客戶審查之範圍、程序、方式、事實規定者由中央目的事業主管青關儲金融機構新台幣50萬元以上、1000萬元以下發還除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元以下發還並得恩賜處罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過台灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條之一不予增訂第九條"},{"start":24360.017,"end":24383.718,"text":"第9條 為配合防制席前及打擊自控制國際合作金融目的事業主管機關及指定之非金融事業或人員之中央目的事業主管機關得自行或經貿部調查局通報對其檢獲自控高風險國家或地區為下列措施一、令金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員強化相關交易正確人客戶身份措施"},{"start":24384.278,"end":24402.304,"text":"二、限制或禁止金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員與期前或資恐高風險國家或地區為匯款或其他交易三、採取其他與風險相當且有效之必要防制措施前項所申期前或資恐高風險國家或地區指下列之一者"},{"start":24404.445,"end":24427.246,"text":"一、經國際防制洗錢組織公告防制洗錢及打擊資本有嚴重缺失之國家或地區二、經國際防制洗錢組織公告未遵循或未充分遵循國際防制洗錢組織建議之國家或地區三、其他有具提示證任由洗錢及資本高風險之國家或地區宣讀完畢照審才會條項通過第10條"},{"start":24428.154,"end":24442.873,"text":"第10條金融機構及指定制非金融事業或人員應執行業務而辦理國內外交易應留存必要交易記錄前項必要交易記錄是保存自交易完成時期應至少保存5年但法律另有較長保存期間規定轉送其規定"},{"start":24444.455,"end":24462.555,"text":"第一項留存必要交易記錄之使用交易範圍、程序、方式、方式、方式、辦法由中央目的事業主管機關會上法務部級相關機關定制與訂定前應詐詢相關公會之意見違反第一項、第二項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關留存必要交易記錄之範圍、程序"},{"start":24463.075,"end":24479.243,"text":"方式之規定者由中央目的事業主管金管處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元相罰款除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上500萬元相罰款並得按次處罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第11條"},{"start":24480.239,"end":24499.316,"text":"第11條非信託業之受託人與信託關係存續中必須取得並持有足夠正確與最新有關之信託之委託人、受託人、收益人及任何其他最終有效控制信託之自然人之身份資訊及持有其他信託代理人、信託服務業者基本資訊"},{"start":24500.257,"end":24523.576,"text":"前項受託人應就前項信託資訊進行申報並於資訊發生變更時主動更新申報資訊第一項非信託業之受託人以非信託業之指定之非金融事業或人員或其他法人為限其受理申報之機關如下一、指定之非金融事業或人員擔任受託人者為各該業別之主管機關"},{"start":24524.637,"end":24547.217,"text":"二、減款與外資法人擔任受託人者為各個目的事業主管機關受託人自信託關係終止時期應保存第一項資訊至少5年第一項受託人以受託財產與金融機構決定之非金融事業或人員建立業務分析或進行等一定金額最臨時性交易時應主動揭露其在信託中之地位"},{"start":24547.797,"end":24571.466,"text":"第二項是申報、更新、申報之範圍、方式、程序前項一定金額之範圍、揭露方式及其他依遵行事項之範法由法務會上相關機關定之違反第二項、第四項、第五項或前項鎖定辦法中有關第二項、申報、更新、申報之範圍、方式、程序或第五項揭露方式之規定者由第三項受理申報機關署信貸幣5萬元以上、500萬元項罰款並答案自處罰宣告完畢"},{"start":24575.017,"end":24597.807,"text":"照審查會條文通過 第12條第12條 金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員﹐對於打一定金額之通貨交易﹐處本本領友會定外﹐應向法務調查局申報﹐金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員﹐依前項規定為申報者﹐免除其業務上應保守秘密之義務﹐該機構或事業之負責人﹐董事經理人及職員一同﹐"},{"start":24598.487,"end":24623.787,"text":"第一項依定金額通過教育制範圍、種類、申報制範圍、方式、程序及其他應遵行事上之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關會相反或佈置相關機關定製與定定前應徵詢相關公會之意見違反第一項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關申報制範圍、方式、程序之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關主勤勞機構新台幣50萬元、商運金1千萬元相反為"},{"start":24624.548,"end":24638.988,"text":"除指定之非金融事業活動人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元消防還並得安置處方宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報告院會因為接見外賓關係現在休息下午4點繼續開會"},{"start":24790.905,"end":24793.694,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":25483.16,"end":25484.766,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":25565.484,"end":25571.783,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":26332.26,"end":26334.814,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":26367.677,"end":26368.04,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":28554.982,"end":28574.908,"text":"報告院會現有國民黨黨團針對本次會議7月15日提出延長開會時間處理討論事項請問院會有沒有依依沒有依依宣告本案照國民黨黨團提議通過本次會議7月15日延長開會時間處理討論事項"},{"start":28582.23,"end":28583.012,"text":"報告院會現在繼續開會請宣讀第13條"},{"start":28588.39,"end":28612.896,"text":"第13條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員對疑似犯第19條、第20條之罪之交易應向法務部調查局申報其交易未完成者亦同金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員依前項規定為申報者免除其業務傷因保守秘密之義務該機構或事業之負責人、董事、經理人及職員亦同"},{"start":28613.536,"end":28641.05,"text":"第1項追申報範圍、方式、程序及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、法務部及相關機關定之與訂定前應申詢相關公會之意見前項第7條第3項、第8條第4項、第10條第3項及前條第3項追辦法其事務涉司法院者由司法院、會商、行政院定之違反第1項規定或第3項所定辦法中"},{"start":28641.61,"end":28658.008,"text":"有關申報之範圍、方式、程序之規定者由中央目的事業主管金管處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上、1000萬元項罰款除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元項罰款並得按次處罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第14條"},{"start":28664.144,"end":28687.203,"text":"第14條旅客或隨交通工具服務之員出入境攜帶下利之物應向海關申報海關撤離申報後應向防務部調查局通報一、總價值達一定金額之外幣、香港或澳門發行之貨幣及新台幣現金二、總面額達一定金額之有價證券三、總價值達一定金額之黃金四、其他總價值"},{"start":28689.304,"end":28712.47,"text":"打一定金額且有被利用進行洗錢之與之物品以貨物運送、快遞郵寄或其他相類之方法運送前下各款物品出入境者一同前向之一定金額有價證券、黃金物品受理申報與通報之範圍程序及其他因遵行事向之奔放由財政部會長、法務部、中央銀行金融監督管理委員會定之"},{"start":28713.31,"end":28737.7,"text":"未必香港或澳門發行之貨幣為依第一項第二項規定申報者其超過前項規定金額部分由海關募入之申報不實者其超過申報部分由海關募入之有價證券黃金物品為依第一項第二項規定申報或申報不實者由海關處以相等於其超過前項規定金額部分或申報不實之有價證券黃金物品價額之罰還"},{"start":28740.379,"end":28763.057,"text":"新台幣一、第一項、第二項規定申報者﹐超過中央銀行一、中央銀行法第18條之一﹐第一項所定限額部分﹐應予退運未一、第一項、第二項規定申報者﹐其超過第一項規定金額部分﹐由海關默入之申報不實者﹐其超過申報部分﹐由海關默入之均不適用中央銀行法﹐第18條之一﹐第二項規定"},{"start":28764.378,"end":28784.416,"text":"大陸地區發行之貨幣以第一項、第二項鎖定方式出入境應依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例相關規定辦理總價值稱獲同條例第38條第5項鎖定限額時海關應向否部調查局通報宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第15條"},{"start":28785.424,"end":28804.673,"text":"第15條 海關查獲未應前條第一項或第二項規定選保或申報不實之物應予扣留但該扣留之物為前條第一項第一款之物者其所有人、管理人或持有人得向海關申請提供足額追保證金准予撤銷扣留後發還之宣讀完畢照審查會條項通過第16條"},{"start":28807.335,"end":28829.007,"text":"第16條海關1第14條第4項後段採處罰款與處分書送達後為防止受處分人引力或移轉財產以逃避之行得免供擔保向行政法院申請假公押或假處分單受處分者已提供相當擔保者不在此限宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過第17條"},{"start":28830.014,"end":28846.759,"text":"第17條受理第12條、第13條宣報及第14條通報之機關基於防制洗血或打擊滋恐目的得救所受理宣報通報之資料予以分析為辦理分析業務得上相關公務機關或非公務機關調取必要之資料"},{"start":28847.399,"end":28859.384,"text":"前向受理申報通報之機關就分析結果﹐任由查欺犯罪追討犯罪所得健全洗錢防制﹐穩定金融秩序及強化國際合作之必要時﹐得分送國內外相關機關"},{"start":28861.147,"end":28884.569,"text":"相關公務機關基於防制洗錢打擊自保目的或依其他法律規定得向第一項受理申報通報至機關查詢受理申報通報之相關資料前三項資料與分析結果之種類、範圍運用、調取、分送、查詢之程序、方式及其他相關事項之辦法由法務部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第18條"},{"start":28885.543,"end":28904.922,"text":"第18條檢察官於偵查中有事時族人被告利用賬戶匯款通貨或其他支付工具犯第19條或第60條之罪者得申請該官法院指定6個月以內之期間對該筆交易之財產為禁止提款轉賬、付款、交付轉賬或其他必要處分之命令"},{"start":28905.502,"end":28927.352,"text":"其情況及不有相當理由 族人非立即為傷害命令不能保全等沒收資財產或爭取者檢察官得禁命執行之但應於執行後三日內申請法院補發命令法院如不於三日內補發或檢查公務域執行後三日內申請法院補發命令者應即停止執行"},{"start":28928.012,"end":28956.074,"text":"前項禁止提款轉賬、付款交付轉賬或其他必要處分之命令﹐法官於審判中得以職權為之前二項命令應以書面為之﹐並轉用刑事訴訟法第128條規定﹐第一項準時定期間如有繼續延長之必要者﹐前察官應檢附具體理由﹐制止於期間屆滿之前5日﹐申請該管法院裁定﹐但延長期間不得逾6個月﹐並以延長一次為限"},{"start":28957.782,"end":28986.04,"text":"對於外國政府機構或國際組織一第28條所建立之條約或協定或經與互惠員則請求我國協助這案件如所涉之犯罪行為符合第三條所列之罪隨便在我國偵查或審判中者亦得准用前四項規定對第一項、第二項之面臨、第四項之裁定不符者准用刑事訴訟法第四邊抗告之規定宣討完畢照審查會條文通過第19條"},{"start":28987.096,"end":29010.069,"text":"第19條有第二條各款所列行前行為者除一年上七年下有期徒刑並科新台幣一億元以下罰金其起前之財務或財權上利益未達新台幣一億元者除六月以上五年下有期徒刑並科新台幣五千萬元以下罰金前項之未遂犯罰之宣讀完畢保留第20條"},{"start":29017.403,"end":29040.643,"text":"第20條收受持有或使用之財物或財產上利益有下列執行之一而無合理來源者處6月上午年下有期徒刑﹐得併更新台幣5千萬元下罰金一、冒名、已講名或其他與身份相關之不實資訊﹐向金融機構提供虛擬資產服務﹐或第三方支付服務之事業或人員申請開立帳戶帳號"},{"start":29042.364,"end":29064.281,"text":"二、以不正方法取得使用他人向金融機構申請開立就賬戶向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務就事業或人員申請就賬號三、規避第8條、第10條至第13條所定期前防制程序前項之未遂犯罰之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第21條"},{"start":29065.407,"end":29085.795,"text":"第二十一條無正當理由說其他人向金融機構申請開立罪證戶向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務知識業或人員申請罪證號而有項鍊起刑之一者處五年下有企圖刑拘役或客戶併科新台幣三千萬元下房金一、冒用政府金管或公務員名義犯罪"},{"start":29086.295,"end":29115.615,"text":"二、以廣播電視、電子通訊、網際網路或其他媒體等傳播工具對公眾散布而犯之三、以電腦核心或其他科技方法製作關於他人不實影像、聲音或電子記錄之方法犯之四、以契約或交付對價使他人交付或提供而犯之五、以強暴脅迫、詐欺、監視、控制引誘或其他不正方法而犯之前項之未遂犯罰之宣讀完畢"},{"start":29116.736,"end":29140.376,"text":"照審查會條文通過：第22條任何人不得將自己或他人向金融機構申請開支帳戶向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務之事業或人員申請之帳號將附提供與他人使用但符合一般商業金融交易習慣或基於親友間信賴關係或其他正當理由者不在此限"},{"start":29141.156,"end":29162.098,"text":"違反前項規定者,由直轄市縣市政府警察機關殘處告誡,經殘處告誡後逾5年,再犯前項規定者,亦同違反第一項規定而有項鍊起刑之一者,處3名下有企圖刑拘役或客戶併格新台幣100萬元以下罰金,一,其約貨收受對價而分支,二,交付提供之帳戶或帳號合計3個以上"},{"start":29164.02,"end":29175.997,"text":"三經指小事縣市政府警察機關依前項或第四項規定採除後5年以內再分前項第一款案或第二款情形應依第二項規定由該管機關併予採除之"},{"start":29179.136,"end":29206.227,"text":"違反第一項規定者金融機構提供虛擬資產服務及第三方支付服務之事業或人員應對其已開立之帳戶帳號或預開立之新帳戶帳號於一定期間內暫停或限制該帳戶帳號之全部或部分功能或禁與關閉前項帳戶帳號之認定基準暫停限制功能或禁與關閉之期間範圍程序方式作業程序之辦法"},{"start":29206.747,"end":29231.169,"text":"由訪問部惠同中央目的事業主管機關定之警政主管機關應惠同社會福利主管機關建立個案通報機制予依第二項規定為告誡處分時黨知心有社會救助需要職人或家庭應通報職場涉嫌是社會福利主管機關協助其獲得社會救助法所定社會救助宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第23條"},{"start":29232.489,"end":29259.702,"text":"第23條 法人之代表人、代理人、受惠人或其他從業人員因執行業務犯前4條之罪者除處罰行為人外﹐對該法人並可以10倍以上的罰金但法人之代表人或自然人對於犯罪之發生以盡力為防止行為者﹐不在此限犯第19條至第21條之罪﹐於犯罪後自首﹐如有所得並自動繳交全部所得財務者﹐減薪或免除其薪"},{"start":29260.262,"end":29285.829,"text":"兵額使司法警察機關或檢察官得以扣押全部洗錢之財物或財產上利益或查獲其他正犯或公辦者免除其刑犯前4條徵稅在偵查及歷次審判中均自白者如有所得並自動繳交全部所得財物者檢清其刑兵額使司法警察機關或檢察官得以扣押全部洗錢之財物或財產上利益"},{"start":29286.409,"end":29312.899,"text":"或查或其他政犯或公犯者減輕或免除其刑第19條、第20條或第21條之罪與中華民國人民在中華民國領域外犯罪者使用之第19條之罪不以本法鎖定特定犯罪之行為或結果在中華民國領域內為必要但該特定犯罪依行為第一之法律不法者不在此限宣讀完畢"},{"start":29314.198,"end":29339.97,"text":"照審查會條文通過第24條第24條公務員泄露或交付官員申報疑似犯第19條、第20條之罪之交易或犯第19條、第20條之罪行之文書、圖畫、消息或物品者處三連項有期徒刑第5條第一項是第三項不具公務員身份之人泄露或交付官員申報疑似犯第19條、第20條之罪之交易"},{"start":29340.646,"end":29351.756,"text":"或犯第19條、第20條之最嫌疑之文書圖畫、沖洗或物品者處2年下有企圖刑拘役或新台幣50萬元下罰金宣讀完畢"},{"start":29357.15,"end":29378.921,"text":"第25條 判例19條、第20條之罪﹐期前之財物或財產上利益﹐不問屬於犯罪行為人與否沒收之﹐判例19條或第20條之罪﹐有事時足以證明行為人所得支配之前項規定為之財物或財產上利益﹐細取自其他違法行為所得者沒收之﹐對於外國政府機構﹐"},{"start":29379.941,"end":29399.375,"text":"或國際組織 所簽訂之條約或協定或經與互惠原則﹐請求我國協助執行或押獲沒收真案件﹐如所涉之犯罪行為符合第三條所列之罪﹐不以在我國偵查或審判終者違憲宣略完畢照審查會條文通過第26條"},{"start":29400.629,"end":29415.379,"text":"第26條犯本法之罪、沒收之犯罪所得為現金或有價證券以外之財務者等由法務部撥銷檢查機關、司法警察機關或其他協助查緝、期前犯罪之機關作公務上使用"},{"start":29415.959,"end":29440.039,"text":"我國與外國政府經過或國際組織一第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與互惠原則協助執行沒收犯罪所得或其他追調犯罪所得作為者法務部得依條約、協定或互惠原則將該沒收財產之全部或一部撥交該外國政府、機構或國際組織或請求撥交沒收財產之全部或一部款項"},{"start":29441.693,"end":29457.124,"text":"請按項目說財產之不銷辦法由行政院定之﹐宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過第27條法務部辦理防制其前接務的設置基金﹐宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過第28條"},{"start":29458.188,"end":29481.728,"text":"第28條為防制期前政府依《互惠原則》等與外國政府機構或國際組織簽訂《防制期前之條約或協定》對於外國政府機構或國際組織請求我國協助這案件除《條約或協定》另有規定之外等基於《互惠原則》提供第12條至第14條受理申報或通報之資料及其調查結果"},{"start":29482.348,"end":29508.589,"text":"依第一項規定以外之其他條約或協定所交換之資訊的監獄互惠原則為防制洗錢或打擊資管目的之用但依該條約或協定規定禁止或應符合一定要見識的為特定目的外之用者從新規定台灣地區與大陸地區香港及澳門監制洗錢防制專用前三項規定宣言完畢"},{"start":29509.69,"end":29539.039,"text":"照審查會條文通過第二十九條第二十九條為偵探期間犯罪檢察官等一職權或依司法警察官申請提出控制下交付之偵查計畫書並檢附相關資料報請檢察長合格後核發偵查指揮書傾向控制下交付之偵查計畫書應記在下列事項一犯罪行人或被告之年期資料二所犯罪名三所涉犯罪事實"},{"start":29539.819,"end":29555.137,"text":"四、使用控制下交互調查犯罪之必要性五、洗錢行為太陽標的及數量六、偵查犯罪所需期間方法及其他作為七、其他必要之事項宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第30條"},{"start":29556.328,"end":29581.539,"text":"第30條、第7條、第2項之查核、第7條、第4項、第5項、第8條、第5項、第10條、第4項、第12條、第4項、第13條、第5項之採處及其調查中央目的事業主管機關等委辦直轄市縣市政府辦理並由直轄市縣市政府定情呈報查核全效宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第31條"},{"start":29582.95,"end":29611.808,"text":"第31條本法除第6條及第11條之施行日期由行政院定之外自公佈日施行宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報告院會非保留部分均已處理完畢保留第19條條文定於7月16日繼續處理討論事項第19案科技偵查及保障法案"},{"start":29612.703,"end":29626.223,"text":"請宣讀審查報告本院司法及法治委員會於103年6月5日召開全體委員會議審查本案由中召集委員江明擔任主席邀請相關機關指派代表列席說明並答覆委員詢問"},{"start":29627.85,"end":29653.138,"text":"疑惑委員於聽取報告並經詢答及大體討論後進行逐條審查並將全案審查完略原金決議本案審查完略擬具審查報提請院會公決需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓出席說明宣讀完畢請召集委員、中委員嘉賓補充說明補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商"},{"start":29654.434,"end":29683.566,"text":"另外委員蔡易瑜等、委員林怡瑾等分別提案：本今第一會期第18次、第19次會議決定近夫二讀與相關提案並按協商報應會本案應上代協商協商後提出本次會議處理討論事項第二十案外國專業人才延攬及僱用法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":29685.005,"end":29685.588,"text":"請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":29687.13,"end":29714.399,"text":"本院經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會於113年5月22日舉行聯席會議審查本案復於113年6月17日舉行聯席會議繼續審查本案均由召集委員邱瑩擔任主席會中邀請國家發展委員會主任委員劉靜清就委員提案提出說明並答覆委員質詢另邀請內政部等相關機關派員列席備詢"},{"start":29717.452,"end":29736.025,"text":"與會員於聽取說明及詢談後進行主導審查及準備討論並將全案併案審查文據擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前須交由黨團先生院會討論時由經濟委員會召集委員邱議員補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員邱議員議員補充說明"},{"start":29738.36,"end":29761.138,"text":"無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商報告院會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理討論事項第21案陸海空軍懲罰法修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":29763.615,"end":29788.891,"text":"本院外交及國防司法及法治二委員會於113年4月24日舉行聯席會議審查本案：會議由外交及國防委員會王兆景委員定與擔任主席、徽章國防部部長、周國正等報告聯席會議決議召開公聽會後令則其審查自於113年5月8日、5月9日召開聯席會議繼續審查本案均邀請司法院等派員列席備詢"},{"start":29790.652,"end":29818.167,"text":"與會員於聽許說明及詢答後對法案進行逐條審查經準名討論將兩案併案審查完略令通過附帶權益三項全案審查完略原權益併案擬具審查報告提報院會院會審議前需交由黨團先生院會討論時由王召集員定於補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員、王委員定於補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議"},{"start":29819.798,"end":29840.567,"text":"需交由黨團協商另外委員鄭天才等、委員羅美妮等分別提案分經第一會期第14次、第16次會議決定自委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案並按協商報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":29845.814,"end":29864.506,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月12日星期五11時15分地點立法院紅樓301會議室協商主題入海控軍懲罰法修正草案協商結論一第四條、第25條、第70條修正通過相如附件"},{"start":29865.595,"end":29886.42,"text":"二、第18條及第19條照行政院提案通過三、不予採納委員羅美玲等19人委員鄭天才等18人提案第6條委員羅美玲等19人提案第14條委員鄭天才等18人提案第19條委員羅美玲等19人提案第22條委員羅美玲等19人提案第57條四"},{"start":29892.262,"end":29904.89,"text":"其餘均照審查會審查結果通過主持人王定宇、協商代表傅坤琴、洪孟凱、林思明、柯建民、吳思耀、莊瑞雄、黃國昌、吳春成、黃珊珊、林益君、陳永康、徐繳欣宣讀完畢"},{"start":29922.697,"end":29940.395,"text":"照審查會章名通過第一條第一條為維護軍紀鞏固戰力兼務人權保證導戰軍人之違紀行為特制列本法宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過現行條文第二條刪除第二條"},{"start":29941.411,"end":29957.112,"text":"第二條軍人違紀行為之懲罰除其他法律令有規定外依本法行之本法規定對喪失現役軍人身份者與服現役期間之行為亦是用之宣言完畢照審查會條文通過第三條"},{"start":29957.878,"end":29976.165,"text":"第3條軍人非經彈劾不受懲戒公務員懲戒法第24條規定與軍人之為師行為不適用之懲戒法院審理第一項事件其懲戒種類及懲戒權行使期間依本法人事裁罰及財產懲罰規定為之宣告完畢照審查會條文通過第4條"},{"start":29982.116,"end":29998.057,"text":"第4條本法用詞定義如下一、違紀行為指軍人於服限役期間違反勤務上或勤務外紀律規範之行為二、服役機關指軍人服限役時所隸屬或執行勤務之機關構或對學校或行政法人"},{"start":29999.878,"end":30005.48,"text":"3.權責長官只對軍人有指揮、監督或實施懲罰權限者4."},{"start":30005.48,"end":30010.402,"text":"權責機關只權責長官所隸屬之機關構部隊、學校或行政法人5."},{"start":30010.402,"end":30017.104,"text":"法律專業人員只具軍法官或國防法務官資格並依法任用者6."},{"start":30017.104,"end":30026.467,"text":"重大懲罰只撤止廢止起義、降階忌大過、毀過或予受懲罰人2個月本封薪額之財產懲罰"},{"start":30028.024,"end":30056.892,"text":"宣讀完畢照協商條文通過第5條第5條軍人有下列行為之一者為勤務上違規行為應受懲罰一、違背後餘月法令執行勤務二、違反全職長官與職權範圍內下達均職務命令或服役機關管理規範三、等於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服役機關管理規範四、其他違規行為違反已送立法院被查或國防部頒訂之法令"},{"start":30057.812,"end":30077.606,"text":"軍人雖非執行勤務而有濫用軍人身份勤務權限制或於服役機關內為其他不當行為者是為勤務上違紀行為宣討完畢照審查會條例通過第6條第6條軍人非執行勤務而有下列行為之一者為勤務為違紀行為人應受懲罰"},{"start":30080.1,"end":30097.734,"text":"一、故意觸犯刑事法律二、無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品或其他相類似止管制藥品三、服用酒類而違法駕駛交通工具或無正當理由拒絕接受酒精濃度測試四、實施性騷擾或性霸凌"},{"start":30099.075,"end":30121.276,"text":"違反服役機關或其上級機關定班之聯戰倫理、政治或行政中立規範違依法令兼職或經營商業其他不合於軍人身份、足深影響於軍運或服役機關勤務運作之行為請向第七款之行為不得為重大懲罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第七條"},{"start":30122.168,"end":30140.785,"text":"第7條違紀行為之懲罰以行為時本法有明文規定者為限行為後本法或因適用之法令有變更者適用行為時之規定但行為後之規定有利於行為人者適用最有利於行為人之規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第8條"},{"start":30141.718,"end":30160.083,"text":"第8條軍人之違紀行為非出於故意或過失者不受懲罰因過失而應受重大懲罰者以重大過失為限軍人不得因不知法令而免除本法所定懲罰責任但按其情節得從輕懲罰宣傳完畢照審查會條文通過第9條"},{"start":30164.11,"end":30192.115,"text":"第9條文件行為有下列其行之一者不受懲罰一、對於現在不法之侵害而出於防衛自己或他人權利之行為二、因避免自己或他人生命、身體自有名或財產之緊急為難而出於不得已之行為三、依法令之行為四、情無上之正當行為前項第一款或第二款之行為如屬過當者得從輕或免除其懲罰第一項第二款關於避免自己為難之規定"},{"start":30193.095,"end":30216.322,"text":"於勤務上有特別義務者不是用之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第10條第10條軍人對選擇長官職務範圍內下達之命令有服從之義務如認為該命令違法應向選擇長官表示意見該管長官如認為其命令並未違法可以書面下達時軍人即應服從"},{"start":30217.282,"end":30240.289,"text":"其因此所生之責任由該長官付之且向命令違反刑事法律者除依法屬正當行使無力之情形外均仍無服從義務明知該命令違反刑事法律且非依法屬正當行使無力之情形而任執行者應受懲罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第11條"},{"start":30241.485,"end":30268.287,"text":"第11條違禁行為是因精神障礙或其他心智缺陷﹐致不能辨識其行為違法﹐或欠缺依其辨識而行為正能力者不受懲罰﹐行為是因權上之原因﹐致其辨識行為違法﹐或依其辨識而行為正能力﹐遣除降低者得從輕懲罰前二項規定﹐予因故意或或是自行招致者﹐不是用之宣讀完畢"},{"start":30269.332,"end":30288.824,"text":"照審查會條例通過第12條第12條 辦理懲罰事件應視違紀行為情節之輕重並審酌下列事項一、行為之動及目的二、行為時所受之刺激三、行為之手段四、行為人之生活狀況五、行為之品性及知識程度"},{"start":30289.544,"end":30294.49,"text":"6.行為對領導、統一或軍事機率所生之影響7."},{"start":30294.49,"end":30296.912,"text":"行為人與被害人出關係8."},{"start":30296.912,"end":30299.375,"text":"行為人違反義務之程度9."},{"start":30299.375,"end":30302.078,"text":"行為所生之危險或損害10."},{"start":30302.078,"end":30311.207,"text":"行為後事態度依本法規定重重或重清懲罰者應合於比例原則宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第13條"},{"start":30312.182,"end":30328.37,"text":"第13條違紀行為之情節非常重大且顯可明述者得減輕或免除懲罰對於未經發掘之違紀行為主動向長官坦承並願受懲罰者得減輕懲罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第14條第14條懲罰處分送達後3個員內故意在為違紀行為者得從重懲罰宣讀完畢"},{"start":30341.317,"end":30353.716,"text":"照審查會條文通過第15條第15條一本法進行程序之人員對為進行為人有利及不利之情形因疑慮主義宣讀為B照審查會條文通過第16條"},{"start":30354.69,"end":30383.43,"text":"第16條 權責長官任軍人之違紀行為傾斜重大有影響調查及懸罰程序或勤務運作之餘者權責機關得於一定期間內先行停止其勤務其向停止勤務期間以6個月為限權責機關任軍人已無停止勤務之必要時得回復其勤務第一項停止勤務之事有會消滅而有繼續停止勤務之必要時請向停止勤務期間得延長一次並以6個月為限宣讀完畢"},{"start":30384.246,"end":30385.915,"text":"照審查會條文通過第17條"},{"start":30386.926,"end":30414.795,"text":"第17條,停止勤務軍人於停止勤務期間﹐得發給本封薪額之半數﹐停止勤務是有消滅後﹐軍人未受撤職或廢職起義之懲罰﹐或未依法考核為不適服先因而予以退伍者﹐得申請回復職務﹐除其他法律另有規定外﹐權責機關應許其回復勤務﹐並補發其停止勤務期間未發給之本封薪額﹐"},{"start":30415.655,"end":30435.609,"text":"停止勤務軍人死亡者得失勤節補發停止勤務期間未發給之本奉薪額由依法得領受撫恤經濟的據領之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第二章第二章懲罰種類宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過第18條"},{"start":30436.621,"end":30459.587,"text":"第18條軍人之懲罰種類如下﹐一、人事懲罰﹐撤職、廢職起義、降階、經過及申誡﹐二、財產懲罰﹐剝奪或減少退出給予、降級、罰薪及罰款﹐三、紀律懲罰﹐悔過、減速、禁足、罰清及罰站宣言完畢照行政院提案條文通過第19條"},{"start":30460.697,"end":30469.621,"text":"第19條軍人之懲罰依其身份區分種下一、軍官懲罰降職、降階、繼過、升屆、剝奪或減少、退出給予降級、罰薪、罰款級、減數二、士官懲罰徹職、降階、繼過、升屆、剝奪或減少、退出給予"},{"start":30478.724,"end":30498.403,"text":"降籍、罰薪、罰款、悔過、減贖及罰金四、施兵懲罰、廢止起義、禁獲、身戒、剝奪或減少退出給予降籍、罰薪、罰款、悔過、禁足、罰刑及罰證全責懲罰因依違紀行為人、受懲罰時之身份合定懲罰違紀行為人與受懲罰時已喪失現役軍人身份者"},{"start":30504.088,"end":30527.546,"text":"其懲罰以撤職、降階、寄貨、身戒、剝奪或減少、退出給予及罰款違憲宣讀完畢照行政院提案條文通過第20條第20條 撤職軍官士官撤除其軍職並於一定期間停職任用其期間為一年上五年下宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第21條"},{"start":30528.752,"end":30542.127,"text":"第21條費職起義志願士兵費職員核定起義處分並於一定期間不得志願入營其期間為一年上五年下宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過第22條第22條"},{"start":30544.549,"end":30567.761,"text":"將接軍官士官依其現任官階降一階換序﹐並於一年內不得調任主管職務﹐前向違紀行為人予受懲罰時﹐以喪失現役軍人身份者﹐依其退伍解除詔詭﹐或除役時之官階降階換序後﹐重新審定其退出級域宣傳畢照審查會條文通過第23條"},{"start":30568.991,"end":30589.431,"text":"第23條寄過、分寄過與寄到過寄過三次是為寄到過一次在一年內累計寄到過三次者軍官、士官等人撤職志願士兵等人廢止起義並提取任用或不得志願入營一年宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第24條"},{"start":30590.734,"end":30596.639,"text":"第24條 申借以書面為之申借三次是為記過一次宣傳完畢照審查會條文通過第25條"},{"start":30599.81,"end":30617.829,"text":"第25條 剝奪退出執域：由緝奸法院判決剝奪背負緝奸人以依法審定之退出執域：請以致領者並應追回之減少退出執域：由緝奸法院判決減少背負緝奸人：以依法審定之退出執域20%至50%：請以致領者並應追回之"},{"start":30621.693,"end":30637.467,"text":"前一項所定退除給予應按最近一次退伍解除召集或除役前扶一年次計算但被付承接人本人繳付之退扶基金費用本息不在此限宣讀完畢照協商條文通過第26條"},{"start":30638.686,"end":30650.017,"text":"第26條將其因懲罰時限制之諷疾降疫劑其期間為3個月以上一年下其滿因蟲劑諷疾黏滋訊略完畢照審查會條文通過第27條"},{"start":30657.133,"end":30671.585,"text":"第27條 罰款扣除月資待遇總額10%至30%其期限為1個月以上6個月以下 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第28條第28條 罰款金額為新台幣5000元以上100萬元以下 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第29條"},{"start":30683.939,"end":30713.314,"text":"第29條 與決定處所實施回顧教育﹐其期間為1日以上、15日以下﹐執行期間不列記現役期間及退伍休職年資﹐回顧之實施﹐不得有禁錮、凌虐或其他非人道德與之行為﹐第一項回顧實施處所﹐教育之各種內容﹐管理與考核﹐管理人員之資格選擇劃分﹐不列記現役期間與年資之計算﹐及其他相關事項之辦法由吾方部定之"},{"start":30713.934,"end":30728.334,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第30條第30條簡述於立將休假或放假日時自我反省其期間為一日以上十日以下宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第31條"},{"start":30729.537,"end":30743.829,"text":"第31條禁足與力將休假互放加入實施與軍事勤務、內部管理或生活紀律有關之必要證據其期間為一日以上、十日以下宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第32條"},{"start":30745.103,"end":30770.239,"text":"第32條法刑與例假休假或放假日服刑與部隊或公益有關知情務其期間為一日以上十日以下每日法刑時間以六小時為限宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第33條第33條法證以例證行之其期間以二小時為限宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第34條"},{"start":30771.738,"end":30787.771,"text":"第34條懲戒案件或違規事件於下列期間內未計數懲戒法源或作成懲罰處分者懲戒權或懲罰全部的刑事一、重大人事懲罰及重大財產懲罰10年二、監管委員之人事及財產懲罰5年三、悔過1年四、罰金減數及禁足3個月五、罰占1個月宣讀外幣"},{"start":30799.181,"end":30800.754,"text":"照審查會條文通過第35條"},{"start":30801.943,"end":30831.257,"text":"第35條 前條其間自為失行為或違紀行為終了時起算行為屬不作為者 其作為義務消滅時起算但行為之結果發生在後者 自結果發生時起算人間因附審申訴在申訴、行政訴訟或其他救濟程序 經撤銷而需另為懲罰者前條其間自原懲罰處分被撤銷確定之日起算宣讀完畢"},{"start":30832.133,"end":30833.8,"text":"照審查會條文通過第36條"},{"start":30835.014,"end":30862.011,"text":"第36條懲罰權行使期間因天災不可避免之事便或依法律規定不能開始或進行懲罰時停止其進行同因違紀行為在刑事偵查或審判中者其懲罰權不停止行使但懲罰以及他法律關係是否成立為準據而該法律關係在訴訟或行政究竟程序進行中者與該法律關係確定前權責長官得停止刑事懲罰權並通知違紀行為人"},{"start":30864.753,"end":30890.042,"text":"加發缺席時期間應前二項規定停止者之停止原因消滅或前項法律關係確定折辭日期與停止前已經落職期間一併計算宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第三章第三章調查程序宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過第一節第一節總則宣讀完畢"},{"start":30892.796,"end":30917.524,"text":"照審查會結明通過第37條第37條 權責總管因職權舉辦或其他情勢之所屬軍人甚有違紀行為者如法律另有規定外應自行或指派該委員軍官、士官或陣風督察或與該等職務相當之人員依本章規定實施調查宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第38條"},{"start":30918.786,"end":30947.248,"text":"第38條 調查人員依依本法或相關法令實施調查﹐不得以違背法令或其他不正方法取得證據﹐以違背法令或其他不正方法實施調查所取得之證據﹐不得作為認定違紀行為之基礎﹐但以違背法令或其他不正方法取得證據之情節輕微﹐排除該證據之使用明顯有違國防軍事或公共利益者不在此限宣讀完畢"},{"start":30948.41,"end":30973.677,"text":"照審查會條文通過第39條第39條軍人無身當理由不得規避或拒絕調查軍人因他人設有違紀行為接受調查時不得有偽造、變造、湮滅或隱匿與調查該違紀行為有關之證據資料或於詢問時為虛偽或不實陳述等防害調查之行為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第40條"},{"start":30974.724,"end":30999.651,"text":"第40條國防部及其所屬服役機關之軍人設有違紀行為且有項鍊進行之一者得由國防部自行或指定所屬服役機關實施專案調查並作成專案調查報告一、服役機關處所內人員死亡或重大傷害二、演習或訓練事故三、降官違紀行為四及他有專案調查必要"},{"start":31000.331,"end":31019.54,"text":"前項第一環接行之傷者或傷亡者之配偶二親等內親屬及以永久共同生活為目的同居一家之人等於發生後6個月內向國防部申請前項專案調查宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第41條"},{"start":31021.738,"end":31040.652,"text":"第41條軍人涉有違紀行為且有下令起刑之一者全責長官得不實質調查或終止調查一、同意違紀行為已受懲戒或懲罰經調查而未受懲罰者一同二、違紀行為後具以懲罰之法令經廢止或停止使用"},{"start":31041.232,"end":31067.338,"text":"三、懲罰權已於第34條規定之刑事期間四、身有違紀行為之人死亡五、匿名舉發或未具體指出行為人或事實六、舉發事實不明且舉發人經合法通知無正當理由拒絕道場陳述請舉發事實其舉發事實顯不構成違紀行為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第二節"},{"start":31068.496,"end":31094.211,"text":"第二屆刑事偵查之競合宣讀完畢照審查會解明通過第42條第42條國防部及其所屬服役機關軍人與非正式設有違紀行為同時設有犯罪嫌疑時檢查官得指揮該軍人所屬服役機關或其送其機關之法律專業人員依刑事訴訟法及相關法規偵查之宣讀完畢"},{"start":31095.205,"end":31097.48,"text":"照審查會條文通過第43條"},{"start":31098.786,"end":31128.366,"text":"第43條法律專業人員與非暫時受檢察官指揮處理下列事務一、實施服役機關處所內之搜索、扣押、勘驗或執行具體二、詢問告訴人、告發人、犯罪行、人證人或鑑定人三、相助檢察官執行法院組織法第60條鎖定支持權法律專業人員處理前項第一款及第二款事務時視為刑事訴訟法第230條第一項之司法警察官"},{"start":31129.106,"end":31147.366,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第44條第44條﹐法律專業人員以本期規定偵查之案件終結前﹐日有將偵查所的證據資料﹐移送權責長官辦理懲罰之必要時﹐應報請檢察官同意後行之宣讀完畢"},{"start":31148.186,"end":31168.484,"text":"照審查會條文通過第45條第45條法律專業人員依本期規定處理偵查案件事務之注意事項及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第三節第三節調查方法宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過第46條"},{"start":31170.945,"end":31192.134,"text":"第46條,調查人員等以書面言詞或其他適當方法通知聖友文件行為這群人或與事件有關人員到場接受詢問前項通知應告之下令事項一、詢問這目的二、應到之日、時及處所三、得不委託他人到場四、不到場所生之效果"},{"start":31193.95,"end":31211.708,"text":"5.實施調查之權則或服役機關6.調查員之職稱及姓名對非現役軍人之詢問應以通知書在面前向應告這事項並由調查機關主管、長官簽名後於到場其日24小時前送達"},{"start":31212.714,"end":31239.329,"text":"但經受詢問人同意或有急迫其行者﹐不受於到場7日24小時前送達之限制﹐非因自己之違紀行為而接受第一項詢問者﹐等於詢問完畢後10日內向調查機關請求日費及旅費﹐但無正當理由拒絕陳述者不在此限﹐請向備用者支給項目基準及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":31240.188,"end":31242.46,"text":"照審查會條文通過第47條"},{"start":31243.786,"end":31271.803,"text":"第47條 調查人員詢問涉有違紀行為之軍人時﹐應告知所涉違紀行為及違法之法令﹐並給予陳述意見之機會﹐如有陳述﹐應令就其始末連續陳述﹐其陳述有歷之事實者﹐應令其指出證明之方法﹐調查人員認其向軍人涉有其他違紀行為﹐或犯罪行為時應及時告知宣讀完畢"},{"start":31272.813,"end":31300.165,"text":"照審查會條文通過第48條第48條受詢問人得保釋屆末無均違背自己之意思而為陳述並等委任律師為其代理人及請求調查有律之證據未委任律師之受詢問人表示將委任時應即停止詢問但經受詢問人主動祈求立即詢問或等候律師於4小時未到場者得進行詢問宣讀完畢"},{"start":31301.195,"end":31324.813,"text":"照審查會條文通過第49條第49條詢問不得以強暴、脅迫、利用詐欺、疲勞詢問或其他不正方法為之詢問非經受詢問人同意不得於夜間行之前項所稱夜間只午後10時至一日午前8時宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第50條"},{"start":31325.816,"end":31353.963,"text":"第50條詢問應作成記錄向受詢問人朗讀或另期閱覽並全程連續錄音必要時應全程連續錄影但有急迫情況且經記名記錄者不在此限受詢問人為聽覺聲音語言功能障礙或語言不同者應由通譯傳譯之必要時並得以文字詢問或另以文字陳述宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過第51條"},{"start":31355.236,"end":31368.015,"text":"第51條 調查人員及與調查事實及證據之必要的向人民或團體請求提供與案情有關之文書、資料或其他物件宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第52條"},{"start":31369.161,"end":31393.876,"text":"第52條 調查人員得依職權或被調查人之請求﹐將有關文書資料或其他物件﹐送請專業機關或法人團體﹐或具有專門知識經驗者鑑定﹐或送請業務主管機關提出意見以書面為鑑定者必要時﹐得通知鑑定人到場說明宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第53條"},{"start":31395.151,"end":31422.827,"text":"第53條 調查人員未了解違紀事實真相得就必要事物件或處所實施勘驗實施勘驗應通知設有違紀行為之軍人及有關人員到場但不能通知者不在此現勘驗應製作勘驗記錄並得錄音及錄影必要時應全程錄影宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第4章第4章懲罰程序宣讀完畢"},{"start":31423.823,"end":31437.13,"text":"照審查會章名通過第一節第一節總則宣讀完畢照審查會結名通過第54條第54條懲罰應由權責長官核定之懲罰權責處上將之懲罰與中將、少將、重要軍職之撤職及降階懲罰由服役機關報請總統核定外其餘人員之平時、暫時懲罰權責由國防部定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":31452.461,"end":31458.829,"text":"照審查會條文通過第55條第55條決責長官於懲罰程序終結前應將同一違紀行為人經調查屬實之數違紀行為予以合一評價宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第56條"},{"start":31470.765,"end":31496.053,"text":"第56條 調查結果有下列起刑之一者 全職守規應不予懲罰或終止懲罰程序一、有第8條、第1項、第9條、第1項及第11條、第1項所定不受懲罰之事由二、有第41條、第1款及第4款規定起刑之一、三、證據不足或不構成違紀行為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第二節"},{"start":31497.455,"end":31526.107,"text":"第2屆懲罰致諮詢及專案評議會宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過第57條第57條權責長官認為有失以重大懲罰之必要時除第58條規定應召開專案評議會知情行為應指定適當階段或專業人員5人至9人組成懲罰諮詢會並得指定其中一人為主席其成員任意性別比例不得少於總人數五分之二"},{"start":31526.667,"end":31546.607,"text":"前項諮詢會應給予違規行為人陳述其身免執行會並向權責長官提出具體建議權責長官不同意前項建議合定懲罰時應加註理由但從今懲罰者不在此限宣誓完畢照審查會條文通過現行條文第31條刪除第58條"},{"start":31550.083,"end":31578.412,"text":"第58條第40條所定的實施專案調查之情形應由國防部自行或指定所屬機關或學校召開專案評議會評議前項專案評議會應由上將編輯或相當層級之人員擔任召集人並邀集適當階級人員專家學者或社會公證人士7人至11人組成第一項專案評議會委員任意姓名比例不得少於總人數五分之二"},{"start":31579.092,"end":31602.406,"text":"專家學者或社會公正人士人數不得少於總人數二分之一第一項專案評議會之決議應以委員過半數之出席出席委員過半數之同意請知專案評議會委員之遴選評議方式及其他相關事項之規則由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第59條"},{"start":31603.789,"end":31631.61,"text":"第59條專案評議會任由應受懲罰人或由第40條第二項之申請人時應通知應受懲罰人或申請人於指定日期及處所陳述意見第40條第一項第一款鎖定情形未經同條第二項鎖定人員申請專案調查者專案評議會必要時得通知該等人員於指定日期及處所陳述意見該等人員於專案評議程序中截簽"},{"start":31632.57,"end":31643.897,"text":"請求陳述意見且有正當理由者應與陳述意見之際會請向通知到場人員與陳述意見及日間得向專案評議會申請閱論抄寫、複印、順應有關資料或請求調查證據宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第60條"},{"start":31652.7,"end":31676.297,"text":"第60條專任評議會任由第40條第一項是專任調查報告有不備之處或有檢調第三項調查證據請求時應具體說明調查方法令原調查機關補充調查其項補充調查以疑似違憲但發生新事實或發現新證取則不在此限宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第61條"},{"start":31677.435,"end":31695.666,"text":"第61條 專案評議會評議期間﹐所有出席列席及記錄人員﹐對於會議討論事項﹐會議內容及決議均應嚴守祕密﹐未經專案評議會同意﹐不得對外公開宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第62條"},{"start":31696.994,"end":31722.085,"text":"第62條專案評議會應將評議結果作成專案報告送交權責機關及有關機關並複製第59條第一項及第二項通知到場人員前項報告應包括下列10項並得摘錄對外公開之一、事實之認定二、調查之方法及經過三、認定之理由四、改善建議五、應受懲罰之人、懲罰種類及程度"},{"start":31724.907,"end":31750.663,"text":"選擇機關應依前項第五款規定合定懲罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第63條第63條與國防部無隸屬關係之服役機關得依其組織特性筆證或自行訂定辦理本期專案評議會相關事項之辦法宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第三節第三節懲罰是作成宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過第64條"},{"start":31751.877,"end":31757.523,"text":"第64條懲罰處分應由權責機關發布送達但上將之懲罰與中將、少將、重要軍職之撤職及將接懲罰由服役機關發布送達宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過第65條"},{"start":31768.891,"end":31782.545,"text":"第65條懲罰處分亦以書面證明懲罰種類、程度、違紀、須有及法令依據並附計不符處分之救濟方法、期間及受理救濟之機關宣告完畢照審查會條文通過第66條"},{"start":31784.485,"end":31797.844,"text":"第66條 懷故以外之紀律懲罰 權責長官得以嚴辭下達後執行之但依於嚴辭下達之次日及期日內依前二條規定辦理宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第5章"},{"start":31799.912,"end":31828.47,"text":"第五章懲罰之執行宣讀完畢照審查會章明通過第67條第67條同意違規行為依本法懲罰後附移送懲戒經懲戒法認為懲戒處分或不受懲戒之判決確定者原懲罰處分施其效力因於第34條懲戒權行使期間而受免疫之判決者原懲罰處分不施其效力宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第68條"},{"start":31829.844,"end":31854.444,"text":"第68條人事懲罰及參選懲罰至懲罰發布之次日生效懲罰處分因程序瑕疵經舊計程序徹效令與釋法處分時如今與同一事實在為相同內容之懲罰處分該懲罰處分所及自原懲罰處分生效之日發生效力宣讀完畢照審才會條文通過第69條"},{"start":31855.714,"end":31876.477,"text":"第69條財產權罰制處分生效之日期五年內未經執行者不再執行其於五年期間屆滿前已開始執行者仍得繼續執行但自五年期間屆滿之日期已於五年尚未執行終結者不得再執行宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第70條"},{"start":31877.608,"end":31899.741,"text":"第70條服役機關收受審計法院所為剝奪或檢守背負審計人退出給予之判決確定證明書或審計法院第二審判決後應即通知退出給予合併機關重新審定退出給予並複製退出給予之給予機關宣讀完畢照協商條文通過第71條"},{"start":31901.789,"end":31907.022,"text":"第71條注什麼人依其經濟狀況不能一次玩納罰款時權責金、萬、德"},{"start":31911.266,"end":31933.561,"text":"卓勤、尊宇、免席、分歧、繳納、罰款為玩納前人具現役軍人身份者得自其月之待遇總額中扣抵至多三分之一前項精進狀況認定基準分歧歧數及扣抵等相關事項執本法由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第72條"},{"start":31935.492,"end":31957.538,"text":"第72條法管受懲罰人經處分機關定相當期間催告借勤為旅行者等以該懲罰處分為執行名義以送行政執行前項執行不受陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例第51條第三項規定之限制宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第73條"},{"start":31958.82,"end":31986.225,"text":"第73條紀律懲罰執職刑期間欲有懷孕、罹患重大疾病或奉准請假時應停職執行欲有作戰、演訓或救災等特殊事故時得停職執行傾向停職執行原因消滅與情況許可時給予執行如受懲罰人停職執行期間表現良好權責長官得釋情節免除執行"},{"start":31987.165,"end":32015.344,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第74條第74條毀過簡述禁足及罰情懲罰之執行期間逢例假休假或放假日者不予補假宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第75條第75條毀過懲罰執行前權責儘管應將毀過執行之處所及起起時間以書面告知受懲罰人宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第76條"},{"start":32016.704,"end":32035.214,"text":"第76條 受懲罰人對權責積恩或服役積恩有關懲罰之執行方法﹐應遵守這程序或其他侵害利益之形式﹐等於執行程序終結前﹐依軍人權益事件處理法﹐提出申訴、再申訴及行政訴訟"},{"start":32036.435,"end":32061.186,"text":"前項申訴在申訴不停止執行申訴管轄機關任期有理由者應即停止執行並遮銷或更爭以為之執行行為任期無理由者應於3日內將軍一件移送管轄至地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會於5日內決定之前項在申訴決定等由地方軍事法院"},{"start":32062.026,"end":32077.794,"text":"官兵權益保證會專任委員3人合意行之不適用軍人權益事件處理法第10條第一項規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報告院會現在休息晚上8點繼續開會進行後續條文之處理"},{"start":32095.469,"end":32095.849,"text":"八點 八點"},{"start":32247.386,"end":32250.101,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":32301.152,"end":32302.261,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":32433.21,"end":32434.374,"text":"主席"},{"start":33211.374,"end":33223.009,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":35968.387,"end":35972.022,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":36717.892,"end":36718.524,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":37052.287,"end":37052.307,"text":"議員委員長"},{"start":37642.54,"end":37646.112,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":38128.922,"end":38130.351,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":39546.954,"end":39548.882,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":41352.436,"end":41378.863,"text":"歡迎會議我們現在繼續開會請宣讀第6章第6章負責宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過我們宣讀第77條第77條軍人之違禁行為於戰時藉嚴或動員實施階段經調查屬實且有及時懲罰之必要者權責整頓得以言辭下達懲罰後盡為之心不適用第57條之第66條規定宣讀完畢"},{"start":41381.707,"end":41409.322,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第78條本法的涉行細則由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第79條第79條本法的涉行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報告委員會依協商結論羅美玲委員鄭天才委員等分別提案第6條"},{"start":41411.201,"end":41429.136,"text":"羅美玲等委員提案第14條鄭天才等提案第19條羅美玲委員等提案第22條羅美玲委員等提案第57條均不予採納列入公報紀錄報院會全案經過二讀現由民進黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問會有無異議無異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":41439.898,"end":41448.827,"text":"第一章總則第一條為維護軍紀、鞏固戰力、兼顧人權保證、導正軍人之危機行為特指令本法"},{"start":41450.748,"end":41478.14,"text":"第二條軍人違紀行為之懲罰：其他法律令有規定為依本法行之本法規定對喪失現役軍人身份者與服現役期間之行為亦實用之第三條軍人非禁堂和不受懲戒公務員懲戒法第有14條規定與軍人之違實行為不實用之懲戒法院審理第一項事件其懲戒種類及懲戒權行使期間"},{"start":41478.88,"end":41480.506,"text":"依本法人事懲罰及財產懲罰規定為之"},{"start":41485.56,"end":41508.73,"text":"第4條本法用此定義如下一、違紀行為指軍人於服限役期間違反勤務上或勤務外紀律規範之行為二、服役機關指軍人服限役時所隸屬或執行勤務之機關構部隊、學校或刑政法人三、權責總官指對軍人由指揮監督或實施懲罰權限者四、權責機關"},{"start":41513.011,"end":41534.401,"text":"指權責長官所隸屬之機關購物部隊﹑學校或刑專法人﹑部法律專業人員﹑只具軍法官或國防法務官資格﹑並依法任用者﹑六重大懲罰指撤職廢職起義﹑降階期待過活過過﹑與受懲罰人2個月本封信額之裁選懲罰"},{"start":41537.526,"end":41565.589,"text":"第5條 均乃有下列行為之一者為勤務上違紀行為應受懲罰一、違背五月法令執行勤務二、違反全層轉關於職權範圍內下達之職務命令或服役機關管理規範三、待於監督所屬人員執行勤務或服役機關管理規範四、其他違紀行為違反已送立法院被查或國防部頒訂之法令"},{"start":41566.669,"end":41579.175,"text":"軍人雖非執行勤務而有濫用軍人身份、勤務權限、福祉或於服役機關內或其他不當行為者,是由勤務上遺棄行為"},{"start":41582.907,"end":41592.657,"text":"6.居然非執行勤務而有相類行為之一者﹐或勤務外合計行為﹐仍應受懲罰1."},{"start":41592.657,"end":41594.899,"text":"故意觸犯刑事法律2."},{"start":41594.899,"end":41602.126,"text":"無故使用或持有毒品、迷幻藥、麻醉藥品或其他相類似之管制藥品3."},{"start":41602.126,"end":41604.609,"text":"服用酒類而違法駕駛交通工具"},{"start":41605.129,"end":41632.487,"text":"或無任當理由拒絕接受酒精濃度測試實施性騷擾或性暴力違反服役機關或其上級機關定班之聯戰倫理、政治或行政中立規範未依法令兼職或經營商業其他不合於軍人身份足深影響於軍誉或服役機關勤務運作之行為且向第7款之行為不得而重大懲罰"},{"start":41634.864,"end":41651.815,"text":"第7條 完結行為之懲罰以行為是本法有明文規定者為限行為後本法或因適用之法令有變更者適用行為實施規定但行為後之規定有利於行為人者適用最有利於行為人之規定"},{"start":41653.196,"end":41670.95,"text":"第8條軍人之違紀行為非出於孤一或過失者不受懲罰因過失而應受重大懲罰者以重大過失為限軍人不得應目之法令而免除本法所定懲罰責任但案情情節得從輕懲罰"},{"start":41675.256,"end":41703.881,"text":"第9條違憲行為有下列情形之一者不受懲罰一、對於現在不法之侵害而出於防衛自己或他人權利之行為二、應避免自己或他人生命、身體、自由、名譽或殘損之緊急為難而出於不得已之行為三、依法律之行為四、勤務善失正當行為前項第一款或第二款之行為如屬過道者得從輕或免除其懲罰"},{"start":41705.201,"end":41730.8,"text":"第一項第二款關於避免自己為難之規定：於勤務上有特別義務者不適用之第10條軍人對權財長官職務範圍內下達任命令有服從之義務：如認為該命令違法：應向權財長官表示意見：該管長官如認其命令並未違法：而以書面下達時軍人即應服從："},{"start":41731.901,"end":41752.299,"text":"其因此所生之責任由該長官複製前項命令違反刑事法律者除依法屬正當行使武力追緝刑外居然無服從義務明知該命令違反刑事法律且非依法屬正當行使武力追緝刑而亂執行者應受懲罰第11條"},{"start":41758.499,"end":41784.321,"text":"文件與行為時因精神障礙或其他心智缺陷致不能辨識其行為違法或欠缺依其辨識而行為之能力者不受懲罰行為是因前向之原因致其辨識行為違法或依其辨識而行為之能力顯著降低者得從輕懲罰前向性規定與因故意或故事自行招致者不是用之"},{"start":41785.562,"end":41800.003,"text":"第12條半年懲罰事件應視文件行為情節之輕重並審逐下令事項一、行為之動機目的二、行為之所受之刺激三、行為之手段四、行為人之生活狀況"},{"start":41801.244,"end":41804.585,"text":"5.行為人之品性及知識程度6."},{"start":41804.585,"end":41809.827,"text":"行為對領導、統一或軍事紀律所深之影響7."},{"start":41809.827,"end":41811.427,"text":"行為人與被害者之關係8."},{"start":41811.427,"end":41815.229,"text":"行為人違反義務之程度9."},{"start":41815.229,"end":41818.47,"text":"行為所深之危險或損害10."},{"start":41818.47,"end":41824.692,"text":"行為後之態度依本法規定從眾或從輕處罰者應合於比例原則"},{"start":41827.472,"end":41842.378,"text":"第13條 違紀行為之情節非屬中的其嫌可免訴者﹐得減輕或免除懲罰﹐對於未經發掘之違紀行為﹐主動向長官談證﹐並願受懲罰者﹐得減輕懲罰第14條 懲罰處分送達後3個月內故意在委違紀行為者﹐得從重懲罰"},{"start":41854.608,"end":41862.022,"text":"第15條依本法進行程序之人緣﹐對文件行為人有利及不利追緝行因一律注意"},{"start":41863.737,"end":41886.294,"text":"第16條 權責轉換任軍人之違規行為情節重道有影響調查及懲罰程序或勤務運作之與證權責機關等於一定期間內先行停止勤務傾向停止勤務期間以6個月為限權責機關任軍人已無停止勤務之必要時等回覆其勤務"},{"start":41887.435,"end":41897.036,"text":"第一項停止勤務之時有未消滅﹐而有繼續停止勤務之必要時﹐請向停止勤務期間得延長一次﹐並以6個月為限"},{"start":41899.71,"end":41927.669,"text":"第17條 停止勤務居然於停止勤務期間﹐得發給本奉薪額之本數﹐停止勤務是有消滅後﹐居然未受撤職或廢止勤務之懲罰﹐或為依法考核為不適服先因﹐而予以退伍者﹐得申請回覆勤務﹐除其他法律另有規定外﹐權財機關應許其回覆勤務﹐並不發起停止勤務期間﹐未發給之本奉薪額"},{"start":41928.908,"end":41942.683,"text":"停止勤務軍人死亡者得罪情節補發停止勤務期間未發給之本奉薪額由依法得領受撫恤金之人具領之第二章 懲罰種類"},{"start":41945.293,"end":41959.98,"text":"第18條軍人之懲罰主令如下一、原始懲罰徹指非指其意將皆記過其身屆二、財產懲罰不得或介紹退出其域將其罰薪及罰款三、紀律懲罰"},{"start":41961.061,"end":41986.169,"text":"回過簡述禁足罰金及罰證第19條居然之懲罰依其身份區分如下依居關懲罰撤職、降接、寄貨、申借、剝奪或減少退出其遇、降級罰金、罰款及簡述而事關懲罰撤職、降接、寄貨、申借、剝奪或減少退出其遇、降級罰金、罰款、回過簡述及罰金"},{"start":41989.801,"end":42016.883,"text":"三、士兵懲罰﹐廢止其亦已繼過身屆、剝奪或減少退出其域﹐降其罰薪、罰款﹐悔過禁足、罰勤及罰證全策﹐長官應依違紀行為人﹐受懲罰實質身份﹐核定懲罰違紀行為人與受懲罰時﹐已喪失現役軍人身份者﹐其懲罰依徹職、降皆繼過身屆﹐剝奪或減少退出及與其罰款違憲"},{"start":42020.87,"end":42031.293,"text":"20.撤職：軍官事關撤出其軍職：並於一定期間停止任用：其期間為一年上五年下21."},{"start":42031.293,"end":42039.995,"text":"廢職起義：志願士兵廢職員核定起義處分：並於一定期間不得志願入營：其期間為一年上五年下"},{"start":42040.995,"end":42062.928,"text":"第22條 將接軍官任官依其現任官階將役階換續﹐並於一年內不得調任主管職務﹐且向違規行為人予受懲罰時﹐以喪失現役軍人身份者﹐依其隊伍解除召集﹐或除役時之官階將階換續後﹐重新審定其退出機遇"},{"start":42064.369,"end":42081.818,"text":"第63條寄過、分寄過與寄到過寄過三次、涉嫌寄到過一次在一年內累計寄到過三次者軍官士官當然撤職志願士兵當然廢絕起義並停止任用或不得志願入營一年"},{"start":42083.837,"end":42109.154,"text":"第24條申誡以書面為之申誡三次視為經過一次第25條剝奪退出給予由澄清法院判決剝奪背負者間人以依法審定之退出給予其已知領者並應追回之減少退出給予由澄清法院判決減少背負者間人以依法審定之退出給予20%至50%"},{"start":42112.077,"end":42128.119,"text":"請以致領者並應追回之前院相所定退出集育應按最近一次退伍、解除臭疾或除役前服役年資計算但被副承建人本人講過之退伍基金費用本席不再次限"},{"start":42130.239,"end":42141.262,"text":"第26條降級依懲罰實現職之奉旗降一級其期間為三個月以上一年下其滿應重計奉旗年資"},{"start":42143.274,"end":42148.696,"text":"第27條 罰金控除月支待遇總額10%至30%其間為1個月以上6個月以下第28條 罰款金額為新台幣5000元以上100萬元以下"},{"start":42161.772,"end":42183.993,"text":"第29條 與指定處所實施毀過教育﹐其期間為1日以上、15日以下﹐執行期間不列記現役期間及退伍休職年資﹐毀過之實施不得有禁錮﹐凌虐或其他非人道待遇之行為﹐第一項毀過實施處所﹐教育之課程內容、管理與考核﹐"},{"start":42184.614,"end":42193.721,"text":"管理人員之資格、權責劃分、不列計現役期間遠年資質計算及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之"},{"start":42196.124,"end":42216.855,"text":"第30條 與歷屆休假或放假日實施自我反省﹐其期間為一日以上十日以下第31條 與歷屆休假或放假日實施與軍事勤務﹐內部管理或生活紀律有關之必要教育﹐其期間為一日以上十日以下"},{"start":42218.154,"end":42230.949,"text":"第32條 罰刑於例假休假或放假日復刑與部隊或公益有關之勤務其期間為1日以上、10日以下、每日罰刑時間以6小時為限第33條 罰刑以例證刑之其時間以2小時為限"},{"start":42241.055,"end":42260.189,"text":"第34條 懲戒案件或聯繫事件於下列期間內未細數懲戒保援或作成懲罰處分者懲戒權或懲罰權不得行事一、重大人事懲罰及重大財產懲罰10年二、監獄以外這人事及財產懲罰5年三、悔過1年四、罰金減數及禁足3個月五、罰占1個月"},{"start":42269.949,"end":42274.258,"text":"第35條前條期間自維持行為或違規行為終了時起訴行為屬不作為者"},{"start":42278.757,"end":42299.029,"text":"自作為義務消滅時起算但行為之結果發生在後者自結果發生時起算懲罰因附審申訴、再申訴、行政訴訟或其他救濟程序經撤銷而須另為懲罰者簽條期間自原懲罰處分被撤銷確定之日起算"},{"start":42300.51,"end":42320.345,"text":"第36條懲罰權行使期間因天真不可避免真事變或依法律規定不能開始或進行懲罰時停止其進行同一違紀行為在刑事偵查或審判中者其懲罰權不停止行事但懲罰與其他法律關係是否成立為準據"},{"start":42321.286,"end":42344.785,"text":"而該法律關係在訴訟或行政救濟程序進行中正﹐與該法律關係確定前﹐權財長官得停止行使懲罰權﹐並通知為即行為準懲罰權行使期間應且亂象規定停止者﹐自停止原因消滅﹐或形象法律關係確定之次日期﹐與停止前已經過之期間﹐一併計算"},{"start":42348.533,"end":42372.083,"text":"第3章 調查程序 第一節 總則第37條 權責轉官應職權舉辦或其他情緒之所屬軍人甚有外籍行為者除法律另有規定外應自行或指派該管軍官、士官或陣風督察或與該等職務相當之人員依本章規定實施調查"},{"start":42376.192,"end":42403.519,"text":"第38條 調查人員應依本法或相關法令實施調查﹐不得以違被法令或其他不正方法取得證據以違被法令或其他不正方法實施調查所取得之證據﹐不得作為認定違紀行為之基礎﹐但以違被法令或其他不正方法取得證據之情節輕微﹐排除該證據之使用明顯有違國防、軍事或公共利益者不在此限"},{"start":42407.389,"end":42418.315,"text":"第39條軍人無政當理由不得規避或拒絕調查軍人因他人設有文件行為接受調查時不得有偽造、編造、湮滅或隱匿與調查該文件行為有關之證據資料"},{"start":42423.457,"end":42444.239,"text":"或於詢問時為虛偽或不實陳述等防害調查之行為第40條國防部及其所屬服役機關之軍人涉有危機行為且有下令執行之意者得由國防部自行或指定的所屬服役機關實施專案調查並作成專案調查報告"},{"start":42445.18,"end":42471.387,"text":"一、服役警官處所內人員死亡或重大傷害二、演習或訓練事故三、降官違紀行為四、其他有專案調查必要前項第一款情形之傷者或傷亡者之配偶、惡情等內親屬即以永久共同生活為目的同居一家之人等於發生後6個月內向國防部申請前項專案調查"},{"start":42474.52,"end":42494.295,"text":"第41條 均仍涉有文件行為且有下列情形之一者權責長官等不實施調查或終止調查一、同意文件行為已受懲戒或懲罰,經調查未受懲罰者,亦同二、文件行為或具以懲罰之法令經廢止或停止適用"},{"start":42494.975,"end":42521.846,"text":"三、懲罰權已於第34條規定之刑審期間四、慎用文記行為之人死亡五、匿名舉發或未具體指出行為人或事實六、舉發事實不明且舉發人經合法通知無正當理由拒絕到場陳述其舉發事實七、舉發事實顯不構成文記行為第二節,刑事偵查之競合"},{"start":42523.925,"end":42541.91,"text":"第42條 國防部及其所屬服役機關軍人與非正式設有違規行為同時設有犯罪刑事檢查官的指揮該軍人所屬服役機關或其上級機關之法律專業人員依《刑事訴訟法》及《相關法規》偵查之"},{"start":42544.591,"end":42566.965,"text":"第43條：法律專業人員與非證實行受檢察官指揮：處理下令事務：一、實施服役機關處所內之搜索、扣押、勘驗或執行具體：二、詢問、告訴人、告發人、犯罪行、人證人或鑑定人：三、相助檢察官執行法院組織法第60條所定之職權"},{"start":42568.546,"end":42595.439,"text":"法律專業人員處理前項第一款及第二款事務時﹐視為《刑事訴訟法》第230條第一項之司法警察官第44條﹐法律專業人員依本屆規定偵查之案件終結前﹐任由將偵查所得證據資料移送權責長官辦理懲罰之必要時﹐應報檢檢察官同意或無刑之"},{"start":42596.779,"end":42624.501,"text":"第45條：法律與專業人員依本屆規定處理偵查案件事務正注意事項及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之第三節 調查方法第46條：調查人員等以書面顏值或其他適當方法：通知是有完結行為之主人：或與事件有關人員到場接受詢問：請向通知應告之下的事項一、詢問稱目的"},{"start":42625.882,"end":42628.563,"text":"2.應到之日時及處所3."},{"start":42628.563,"end":42630.824,"text":"得否委託他人到場4."},{"start":42630.824,"end":42633.425,"text":"不到場所生之效果5."},{"start":42633.425,"end":42637.226,"text":"實施調查之權則或服役機關6."},{"start":42637.226,"end":42651.752,"text":"調查人員之指稱及姓名對非現役軍人之詢問應以通知書在名前向應告之事項並由調查機關主管長官簽名後於到場期日24小時前送達"},{"start":42653.194,"end":42661.772,"text":"單親受尋委員同意或有急迫其行政﹐不順於到場其日24小時前送達之限制﹐"},{"start":42663.53,"end":42692.729,"text":"分應自己之玩器行為而接受的第一項詢問者能於詢問完畢後10日內向調查機關請求日費及旅費但無正當理由拒絕陳述者不再次限前項費用之支援項目接轉其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之第47條調查人員詢問涉有玩器行為之軍人時應告知所涉玩器行為僅違本質法令並給予陳出意見之機會"},{"start":42693.73,"end":42712.706,"text":"如有陳述,應令就其始末連續陳述如陳述有立之事實者,應令其指出證明之方法調查人員任前項均仍順有其他違紀行為或犯罪行為時應及時告知"},{"start":42714.52,"end":42740.419,"text":"第48條受詢問人得保持緘默無須違背自己之意思而為陳述並得委任律師為其代理人及請求調查有力之證據未委任律師之受詢問人表示將委任時應即停止詢問但經受詢問人主動請求立即詢問或等候律師於4小時內到場者得進行詢問"},{"start":42742.83,"end":42759.292,"text":"第49條詢問不得以強迫、脅迫、利用、召集、疲勞詢問或其他不正方法為之詢問非經受審委員同意不得於夜間行之請向所稱夜間直午後10時至1日午前8時"},{"start":42761.55,"end":42788.095,"text":"第50條 詢問應作成記錄：向受詢問人朗讀或另起願案：並全程連續錄音：必要時應全程連續錄音：但有急不急況且經濟名記錄者不再次限：受詢問人為聽覺聲音語言功能障礙：或語言不同者應由通譯傳譯之：必要時並得以文字詢問：或另以文字陳述"},{"start":42789.435,"end":42816.261,"text":"第51條 調查人員竟與調查事實及證據之必要﹐得向人民或團體請求提供與案情有關之文書、資料或其他物件第52條 調查人員得依職權或被調查人之請求﹐將有關文書、資料或其他物件﹐送請專業機關公、法人團體或具有專門知識經驗者鑑定﹐或送請業務主管機關提出意見"},{"start":42818.735,"end":42845.277,"text":"以說明王鑑定者必要時﹐得通知鑑定人到場說明第53條調查員為了解王鑑事實真相﹐得就必要任務件或處所實施勘驗實施勘驗應通知是由王鑑行為之居然及有關人員到場﹐但不能通知者不再次限勘驗應製作勘驗記錄﹐並得錄音及錄影必要時應全程錄影"},{"start":42847.369,"end":42857.178,"text":"第4章 懲罰程序第1節總則第54條懲罰應由權責長官核定之懲罰權責除上將之懲罰與中將、少將、重要軍職之撤職及將接懲罰由服役機關報請總統核定外其餘責員之平時、暫時罰則權責由國防部定之"},{"start":42877.15,"end":42879.333,"text":"第55條 權責者關於懲罰程序終結前應將統一違藉行為人經調查屬實之數違藉行為予以合一評價"},{"start":42891.618,"end":42914.923,"text":"第56條 調查結果有下列情形之一者 全責轉觀應不予懲罰或終止懲罰程序一、有第8條、第1項、第9條、第1項及第11條、第1項所定不屬懲罰之事由二、有第41條、第1款至第4款規定情形之一三、證據不足或不構成文記行為"},{"start":42917.935,"end":42945.635,"text":"第二屆懲罰制諮詢及專任評議會第57條權財長官認為有施以重大懲罰制必要時除第58條規定應召開專任評議會之情形外應決定適當間級或專業人員5人至9人組成懲罰諮詢會並得指定其中一人為主席其成員任意性別比例不得少於總人數五分之二"},{"start":42946.275,"end":42962.277,"text":"前項諮詢會應給與國濟行為人陳述及申辯之機會並向權責整文提出具體建議權責整文不同意前項建議合併懲罰時應交助理由但從今懲罰者不在此限"},{"start":42965.222,"end":42978.469,"text":"第58條第40條所定的實施專案調查之情形應由國防部自行或指定所屬機關或學校召開專案評議會評議前項專案評議會應由上將編接或相當層級之委員擔任召集人"},{"start":42984.712,"end":43002.72,"text":"並邀集適當階級人員、專家、學者或社會公正人士7人至11人組成第一項專案評議會委員任意性別比例不得少於總人數五分之二專家、學者或社會公正人數不得少於總人數二分之一"},{"start":43004.025,"end":43018.576,"text":"第一項專案評議會之決議應以委員過半數之出席出席委員過半數之同意行之專案評議會委員之遴選評議方式及其他相關事項指規則由國防部定之"},{"start":43020.342,"end":43048.379,"text":"第59條專案評議會任由應受懲罰人或有第40條第二項之申請人時應通知應受懲罰人或申請人與指定日期及處所呈出意見第40條第一項定款鎖定情形未經同條第二項鎖定人員申請專案調查者專案評議會必要時得通知該人員與指定日期及處所呈出意見"},{"start":43049.8,"end":43069.965,"text":"：本院委員與專案評議程序中結協：請求陳書意見傳言且有正當理由者應與陳書意見致集會：前來向通知到場人員與陳書意見齊聚前：得向專案評議會申請閱覽、抽寫、複印、遂引有關資料或請求調查證據"},{"start":43072.455,"end":43095.502,"text":"第60條專案評議會任第40條第一項之專案調查報告有不備之處互有前條第三項調查證據請求時應具體說明調查方法令原調查機關補充調查前項補充調查已以一次違憲但發生新事實或發現新證據者不再次限"},{"start":43097.093,"end":43099.816,"text":"第61條專案評議會評議期間所有出席列席及記錄人員對於會議討論事項、會議內容及決議均應嚴守祕密未經專案評議會同意不得對外公開"},{"start":43113.584,"end":43142.003,"text":"第62條專案評議會應將評議結論作成專案報告、送交選擇機關及有關機關並複製第59條第一項及第二項通知到場人員前項報告應包或下列事項並得摘錄對外公開之一、事實之認定二、調查之方法及經過三、認定之理由四、改善建議或因素懲罰之人懲罰種類及程度"},{"start":43143.524,"end":43143.558,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43144.181,"end":43165.755,"text":"全責轉換應依前項第五款規定和定懲罰第63條與國防部無隸屬關係之服務機關等依其組織特性比證或自行訂定辦理本屆專案評議會相關事項之辦法第三節懲罰至做成第64條懲罰處分應由全層機關發布送達但上將之懲罰與中將、少將、重要軍職之撤職及將接懲罰"},{"start":43174.321,"end":43178.568,"text":"由服役機關八部送達第六手條"},{"start":43180.41,"end":43205.136,"text":"懲罰處分應以書面在民懲罰種類、程度、違紀需有及法令依據﹐並附計不符處分之救濟方法﹐期間其處理救濟之機關第16條緩顧一萬之紀律懲罰﹐全責機關得以言辭下達後執行之﹐但應於言辭下達之次日及七日內﹐依前二條規定辦理第五章 懲罰之執行"},{"start":43207.577,"end":43229.397,"text":"第67條同意違規行為依本法懲戒後復一宋懲戒經懲戒法院為懲戒處分或不受懲戒之判決確定者原懲罰處分施其效力應與第34條懲戒權形式期間而受名之判決者原懲罰處分不施其效力第68條人稅懲罰及財產懲罰"},{"start":43232.72,"end":43260.268,"text":"自懲罰發布之次日生效﹐懲罰處分因程序瑕疵﹐經救濟程序襯銷令與釋法處分時﹐如今與同一事實再為相同內容之懲罰處分﹐該懲罰處分受及自原懲罰處分生效之日﹐發生效力第69條採審懲罰自處分生效之日期五年內﹐未經執行者﹐不再執行"},{"start":43262.074,"end":43282.085,"text":"僅於5年期間屆滿前已開始執行者﹐仍得繼續執行但自5年期間屆滿之日起﹐已於5年尚未執行終結者﹐不得再執行第70條服役機關收受承諫法院所謂剝奪或檢查背負承諫人﹐退出及與之判決﹐確定證明書"},{"start":43283.871,"end":43307.624,"text":"或呈現法院第二審判．後應其通知退儲給予核電機關．重新審定退儲給予．並複製退儲給予支給機關．第71條受審法人依其經濟狀況不能一次完納罰款時．權責長官得酌情．准予免息分期繳納．罰款"},{"start":43310.271,"end":43325.724,"text":"罰款為玩鬧情人具信義軍人身份者得自其月支待遇總額中扣抵制度三分之一且向經濟狀況認定精準分期期數及扣抵等相關事項之本法由國防部定之"},{"start":43327.509,"end":43355.797,"text":"第72條 罰款受懲罰人經處分機關定相當期間催告即行為旅行者等已該懲罰處分為執行名義以送行政執行前項執行不受陸海空軍軍官司官服役條例第51條第3項規定之限制第73條 機率懲罰者執行期間欲有回運、罹患中到解密或奉准請假時應停止執行"},{"start":43356.477,"end":43374.759,"text":"予有作證、演訓或救災等特殊事故時的停止執行請向停止執行原因消滅與情況許可時給予執行如受懲罰人停止執行期間表現良好權在長官得釋情節免處執行"},{"start":43377.045,"end":43390.016,"text":"第74條 悔過簡述禁足及罰金懲罰之執行期間﹐逢例假收假或放假日者不予補假第75條 悔過執法執行前﹐權責金官應將悔過執行之處所及啟慶時間﹐引書面構之受懲罰人"},{"start":43399.352,"end":43425.431,"text":"第76條重懲罰人對權財機關或服役機關有關懲罰是執行方法應遵守這程序或其他侵害利益知情事等於執行程序沖結前依均然權益事件處理法提起申訴、再申訴及行政訴訟請向申訴、再申訴部停止執行申訴管轄機關任其有理由者應即停止執行"},{"start":43426.732,"end":43451.891,"text":"並致項目根正以為政治性行為任性無理由者應於3日內將具意見移送管轄至地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會於5日內決定之前項再申訴決定得由地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會專任委員3人合意行之不適用軍人權益事件處理法第10條第1項規定第6章 負責"},{"start":43457.028,"end":43486.064,"text":"第77條軍人之違禁行為於暫時戒嚴或動員實施階段經調查屬實前有積蓄懲罰之必要者權責長官得以言辭效拿懲罰後禁言之行不是用第57條之第66條規定第78條本法實行細則由國防部定之第79條本法實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":43487.927,"end":43507.837,"text":"委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議陸海空軍懲罰法修正通過委員會我們繼續處理審查會所作之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容通過附帶決議三項一"},{"start":43516.723,"end":43535.004,"text":"請國防部於本法施行前應完成國軍人員不得在外兼職兼差規定之修正並送立法院外交及國防委員會備查請國防部提供現行有關非勤務上違紀行為之懲罰基準相關規定供立法院外交及國防委員會參酌二"},{"start":43537.684,"end":43552.951,"text":"針對入海工軍懲罰法修正草案中有關檢訴、禁足及罰站等懲罰種類：請國防部依各軍種特性於施行細則中明定相關執行方式及不得為之之樣態"},{"start":43554.671,"end":43577.065,"text":"三、針對本法修正草案中有關悔過懲罰制度需於相關實施辦法中納入心服課程並參考修復式司法精神及引進外部專業心服資源以有效導正悔過效果宣讀完畢"},{"start":43585.385,"end":43601.601,"text":"報院會一協商結論請報院會一協商結論我們就照案通過報院會現在我們進行完成立法程序後發言請登記第一號徐巧興委員發言"},{"start":43624.675,"end":43646.473,"text":"本次的陸海空軍懲罰法以及待會會三讀通過的軍人權益事件處理草案是一體兩面如果我們沒有明確的法源依據部隊應該要如何管理變成一個大問題因此這次的修法針對軍人懲罰制度進行全面的檢討與更新因應國人的期待"},{"start":43647.473,"end":43671.733,"text":"我們必須要有適當的法源管理依據讓軍隊能夠良好的管理也要避免這些法律的規定成為不當管教甚至霸凌的灰色地帶截至今年5月底國軍總共有14起的自傷案是去年同期的2.3倍之多再加上今年4起的自傷未遂今年國軍的自傷案件數堪稱空絕"},{"start":43672.895,"end":43696.593,"text":"在我接觸過好幾次的軍冤跟自傷案件之後我覺得有必要為了我們的陳情人這些辛苦的、痛苦的家屬們提出以基層軍人為主的修法為他們適度的發聲我仍然要呼籲國軍的高層必須正視以往有一些的懲罰項目被濫用的時候對一個軍人來說造成多大的傷害以及不可逆的影響"},{"start":43697.674,"end":43718.912,"text":"所以另外一部待會會修法通過的《軍人權益事件處理法》也會保障這樣的程序正義最後我想說我們必須要正視問題為什麼近年來國軍各部隊面臨的現實是邊線比的每況愈下為什麼招募不到新血入營現役的弟兄為什麼想著要退伍離營"},{"start":43719.993,"end":43746.467,"text":"為什麼這麼多人在軍中受到霸凌甚至結束自己寶貴的性命我想除了藉由提升軍人的福利之外更應該保障其在軍中的權益這兩部法律的通過只是一個開始有更多未來值得我們思考著墨的是如何透過法律政策讓國人們理解軍人的社會地位並且賦予光榮感才會有更多年輕人為了中華民國努力保家衛國謝謝"},{"start":43752.124,"end":43762.009,"text":"謝謝曲巧欣委員的發言報告委員會我們現在進入討論事項第22案軍人權益事件處理法草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":43763.817,"end":43791.13,"text":"本院外交及國防、司法及法治委員會於113年4月24日舉行聯席會議進行審查會議由外交及國防委員會王兆吉委員定於擔任主席會中國防部部長邱國正等報告聯席會議決議召開公聽會後令折旗審查是於113年5月8日、5月9日召開聯席會繼續審查均邀請司法院等派員列席備詢"},{"start":43792.31,"end":43820.081,"text":"如若委員於聽取說明及審查後對法案進行逐條審查經整密討論將兩案併案審查完略另通過附帶決議三項本案全案審查完略原決議併案擬具審查報告提報院會院會審議前需交由黨團協商院會討論時有王召集委員定語補充說明宣讀完畢我們現在請王定語召集委員補充說明吳補充說明"},{"start":43822.421,"end":43843.181,"text":"本案經審查會決議須交由黨團協商另外鄭天才委員等羅美玲委員等分別提案經第一會期第16次會議決定自委員會抽出淨附二讀與相關提案併案協商報院會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":43846.567,"end":43859.083,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月12日星期五11時20分地點立法院紅樓山林會議室協商主題軍人權益事件處理法草案"},{"start":43860.171,"end":43877.088,"text":"協商結論一不予採納委員鄭天才等17人提案第1條委員羅美玲等19人提案第5條、第6條、第7條、第8條委員鄭天才等17人提案第10條、第15條委員羅美玲等19人提案第16條、第17條、第18條、第21條、第31條、第33條、第49條、第50條、第53條"},{"start":43884.835,"end":43894.346,"text":"委員鄭天才等17人提案第55條委員羅美玲等19人提案第56條委員鄭天才等17人提案第58條委員羅美玲等19人提案第61條委員鄭天才等17人提案第62條"},{"start":43904.056,"end":43931.007,"text":"委員羅美玲等19人提案第67條委員鄭天才等17人提案第69條委員羅美玲等19人提案第70條二、取於軍造審查會審查結果通過主持人王定宇、協商代表傅坤吉、洪孟凱、林思敏、柯建銘、吳思瑤、鍾略雄、黃國昌、吳春城、黃珊珊、林益君、陳永康、徐巧欣宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有異議"},{"start":43933.257,"end":43957.555,"text":"沒有異議：本案逐條討論時：我們進一協商結論處理軍人權益事件處理法草案：請宣讀名稱軍人權益事件處理法宣讀完畢照審查會名稱通過：請宣讀第一章第一章總則宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過：請宣讀第一條"},{"start":43958.427,"end":43972.627,"text":"第一條為妥適、迅速、統合處理軍人權益之爭議事件保障軍人權益、兼顧部隊紀律並鞏固戰力特制定本法宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第二條"},{"start":43973.359,"end":43994.733,"text":"第二條軍人與其所屬機關、構、部隊、學校、行政法人或人事權責機關以下簡稱權責機關兼關於身份、公法上財產請求、獎成、考積或其他行政處分或管理措施之爭議出法律另有規定外,適用本法之規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第三條"},{"start":43996.59,"end":44008.824,"text":"3.居然權益之究竟,依本法鎖定附審申訴、再申訴及行政訴訟程序行之,居然提起之申訴事件,由各級主管管、業務承辦單位或監察部門以下簡稱申訴管轄機關依本法處理"},{"start":44015.29,"end":44043.792,"text":"復審及再申訴事件由地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會以下簡稱權保會依本法審議決定第一審行政訴訟事件由高等軍事法院勤務法庭以下簡稱勤務法庭依本法及行政訴訟法審理宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第四條第四條權責機關對依本法提及復審申訴再申訴或行政訴訟之人不得予以歧視或不公平待遇宣讀完畢"},{"start":44044.659,"end":44062.356,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第5條第5條申訴管轄機關、權保會及勤務法庭對於依本法提起申訴再申訴附審或行政訴訟之人表示不符之範圍內不得為更不利益之變更或處分宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第6條"},{"start":44063.291,"end":44080.363,"text":"第6條原行政處分或原管理措施之執行不因依本法所進行之各項程序而停止原行政處分或原管理措施合法性顯有疑義者或其立即執行將發生難以回復之損害且非為維護重大公共利益所必要者"},{"start":44080.883,"end":44095.411,"text":"權保會、申訴管轄機關、原處分機關或原措施機關予受處分或措施之人向勤務法庭提起行政訴訟前得依職權或依申請就原行政處分或原管理措施之全部或一部停止執行宣讀完畢"},{"start":44098.553,"end":44121.061,"text":"第7條前條第二項停止執行之原因消滅或有其他情勢變更之情形選保委會申訴管轄機關、原處分機關或原措施機關得依職權或依申請撤銷停止執行宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第二章第二章地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會宣讀完畢照審查會章明通過請宣讀第8條"},{"start":44121.772,"end":44146.169,"text":"第8條 地方軍事法院至專任及兼任官兵權益保障委員以下簡稱權保委員若干人 組成權保會或其分會分組審議、複審及再申訴事件專任權保委員由地方軍事法院之國防法務官任之兼任權保委員由地方軍事法院聆聘社會公證人士或學者專家任之任期三年"},{"start":44147.729,"end":44169.655,"text":"連選得連任一次：前項兼任權保委員之資格：臨聘、解聘及其他相關事項之辦法：有國防部定之宣讀完畢照審法審查會條文通過請宣讀第9條第9條附審及再申訴事件由原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之權保會管轄權保會受理前項事件認為全部或一部無管轄權者應依職權移送有權"},{"start":44171.576,"end":44195.132,"text":"有管轄權之權保會並通知副審人或再申訴人一人分別提起訴訟、副審或再申訴事件或相牽連之訴訟、副審或再申訴事件權保會得依職權移送最先受理或關係最切地之權保會合併審議並得合併決定訴權保會與管轄權有爭議時由高等軍事法院指定之宣讀完畢照審查會條例通過請宣讀第10條"},{"start":44196.721,"end":44219.542,"text":"第10條全保會審議、副審及再申訴事件應由專任全保委員二人及兼任全保委員三人合議決定之委員任意性別比例不得少於五分之二前項決定應由全保委員全數出席出席委員過半數之同意行之全保會審議、副審及再申訴事件之規則由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第11條"},{"start":44220.583,"end":44247.499,"text":"第11條權保委員或書記官與複審或再申訴所涉爭議事件由下列情形之一者應自行迴避一、與提起複審或再申訴之人由配偶、世親等內血親、傷心等內嬰親、家長、家屬或成友此關係二、呈參與該事件之行政調查、行政處分、管理措施或申訴程序三、現為或成為該事件當事人之代理人、輔助人四、於該事件成為證人、鑑定人"},{"start":44249.581,"end":44273.777,"text":"與該事件有法律上利害關係權保委員或書記官有前項鎖定情形之一因執行迴避而不迴避或有具體事實主任其執行職務有偏頗之餘者負責人或再申訴人得被拒書狀、續名理由向權保會申請迴避前項申請應舉其原因及事實並為適當知識名被申請迴避之人對於該申請的提出意見書"},{"start":44275.098,"end":44300.695,"text":"權保委員被申請迴避者於權保會就該申請事件為准許或駁回之決定前應停止審議程序但有急迫情形仍應為必要處理前項決定被申請迴避之權保委員不得參與權保委員或書記官有第一項鎖定情形之一不自行迴避而未經附審人或在申訴人申請迴避者應由該權保會依職權命其迴避宣告完畢"},{"start":44302.612,"end":44327.404,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第12條第12條尋寶會所為之決定確定後究其事件有拘束各關係機關構部隊學校或行政法人之效力宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第三章第三章附審宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第一節第一節附審之提起宣讀完畢照審查會結名通過請宣讀第13條"},{"start":44329.909,"end":44353.124,"text":"例十三條軍人對權責機關對其所為涉及軍人身份變更公法上財產請求、獎懲或考機事項之行政處分若違法或顯然不當致損害其權利或法律上之利益者除法律令有規定外得依本法提及附審前項事件軍人應權責機關對其依法所為申請於法定期間內因為行政處分而不作為"},{"start":44354.065,"end":44373.188,"text":"或予以駁回認為損害其權利或法律上之利益者﹐得替其請求該機關因為行政處分或特定內容行政處分之附審捷項期間﹐法令未定名者至權責機關受理申請日期二個月宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第14條"},{"start":44374.309,"end":44390.188,"text":"第14條非軍人基於其原軍人身份之請求權遭受侵害時得依前條規定提起複審軍人已死亡者其遺族基於該軍人身份所身之公法上財產請求權遭受侵害時亦同宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第15條"},{"start":44392.911,"end":44418.981,"text":"第15條附審之提起應自行政處分送達之次日起30日內為之但行政處分於艦艇航行期間送達者及30日期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日起算依第13條第二項規定對權責機關只不作為提起附審應於法定期間屆滿後時得提出但自提出申請後已於三年者不得提出"},{"start":44419.821,"end":44442.292,"text":"附審提起之日以原處分機關或權保會收受附審書之日期為準因原處分機關未告知有管轄權之權保會或告知錯誤致附審人誤向原處分機關或有管轄權之權保會以外之機關提起附審者以該機關收受之日視為提起附審之日宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第16條"},{"start":44443.473,"end":44467.748,"text":"第16條提起副審應據副審書,在明下列事項一、副審人姓名、出生年月日、服役單位職階或職業、駐居所或服役單位之駐地身份證文件字號二、由法定代理人或副審代理人者其姓名、出生年月日、職業、駐居所或事務所身份證明文件字號"},{"start":44469.43,"end":44471.031,"text":"3.原處分機關4."},{"start":44471.031,"end":44472.852,"text":"副審請求事項5."},{"start":44472.852,"end":44474.813,"text":"副審事實及理由6."},{"start":44474.813,"end":44478.036,"text":"收受或知其行政處分之年、月、日7."},{"start":44478.036,"end":44484.781,"text":"受理副審之權保會8.證據9."},{"start":44484.781,"end":44488.824,"text":"有無其他已提起或進行中之副審或救濟事件10."},{"start":44488.824,"end":44490.165,"text":"提起副審之年、月、日"},{"start":44491.486,"end":44518.448,"text":"複審書應由複審人及法定代理人簽名或蓋章但委任複審代理人者應由複審代理人簽名或蓋章提起複審應付原行政處分書影本依第13條第2項規定對權責機關之不作為提起複審者第1項、第3款、第6款所列4項載明應為行政處分之權責機關申請之年、月、日並附原申請書之影本及受理申請機關收受證明宣讀完畢"},{"start":44519.64,"end":44546.843,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第17條第17條原處分機關之認定以實施行政處分時之名義為準但上級機關本於法定職權所為行政處分將由下級機關執行者以該上級機關為原處分機關原處分機關調整或裁撤應以承受其業務之機關為原處分機關依第9條第一項規定定其附審管轄宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第18條"},{"start":44548.257,"end":44566.892,"text":"第18條 副審人應善據副審書﹐經由原處分機關向全保會提及副審﹐原處分機關對於前項副審﹐應先行重新審查原行政處分﹐或不作為是否合法妥當﹐其任副審為有理由者﹐得自行撤銷或變更原行政處分﹐"},{"start":44567.412,"end":44581.705,"text":"作成行政處分或特定內容之行政處分並通知全保會允處分機關不依附審人之請求撤銷或變更原行政處分作成行政處分或特定內容之行政處分者因自收到附審書之次日及二十日內"},{"start":44582.606,"end":44603.334,"text":"附具答辯書並將必要之關係文件送於全保會原處分機關檢卷答辯時應將前項答辯書抄送副審人副審人向全保會提起副審者全保會應將副審書引本或副本送交原處分機關依第二項致第四項規定辦理宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第19條"},{"start":44605.816,"end":44615.325,"text":"第19條原處分機關位於前條第三項期間內處理者權保會得依職權或依附審人之請求通知原處分機關於15日內檢証相關卷證資料藉其未檢証者權保會得盡為決定宣讀完畢在審查會條文通過請宣讀第20條"},{"start":44624.882,"end":44637.439,"text":"20.婦人人在第15條第一項鎖定期間向原處分機關或全保會為不符原行政處分之表示者,視為已在法定期間內提起附身,全保會應依第23條規定通知補正"},{"start":44640.003,"end":44656.295,"text":"因原處分機關未告知有管轄權知全保會或告知錯誤致副審人勿向原處分機關或有管轄權知全保會以外這機關作不符原行政處分之表示者是為致使向有管轄權知全保會提起副審請向說說這機關應於10日內將該事件移送由管轄權知全保會並通知副審人宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第21條"},{"start":44664.502,"end":44675.059,"text":"第21條副審提起後於副審決定書送達前副審人得撤回之副審經撤回後不得再提起同一支副審宣讀完畢照審才會條文通過請宣讀第22條"},{"start":44677.881,"end":44703.544,"text":"第22條復審提起後復審人死亡者由其繼承人或其他依法得繼授原行政處分所涉權利或法律上利益之人承受復審程序但已無取得復審決定之法律上利益或依其性質不得承受者不再持限依嫌像規定承受復審者應於事實發生之日及30日內向權保會檢送繼授權利之證明文件依第一項決"},{"start":44704.665,"end":44720.957,"text":"依第一項規定得承受複審者﹐未申明承受複審﹐權保會於知悉得承受事由時﹐應通知其承受複審﹐經通知後未申明承受複審者﹐得命其續行複審宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過﹐請宣讀第23條第23條權保會認為複審書不合法定程式﹐而其行刑可補正者﹐應通知複審人於20日內補正宣讀完畢"},{"start":44732.484,"end":44755.778,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第二節第二節副審人宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過請宣讀第24條第24條能獨立以法律行為負義務者有副審能力無副審能力人應由其法定代理人代為副審行為關於副審之法定代理依民法之規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第25條"},{"start":44757.279,"end":44781.33,"text":"二人以上得對於同一原因事實之行政處分共同提起複審﹐並得選定其中一人至三人為代表人﹐為選定代表人者﹐權保會得現期通知其選定﹐藉其為選定者﹐權保會得依職權指定之選定代表人﹐應於最初為複審行為時﹐向權保會提出文書證明﹐代表人經選定或指定後﹐人得更換或偵檢之"},{"start":44782.691,"end":44792.772,"text":"第一項代表人質選定及前項代表人質更換或增檢非經全體副審人書面通知全法會不申效力宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第26條"},{"start":44794.079,"end":44817.305,"text":"第26條代表人經審定或指定後由其代表全體副審人為副審行為但稱為副審非經全體副審人書面同意不得為之代表人有二人以上者均得單獨代表共同副審人為副審行為代表人之代表權不因其他共同副審人死亡、喪失副審能力或法定代理變更而消滅宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第27條"},{"start":44819.209,"end":44842.95,"text":"第二十七條副審人得委任守安法律或有專業知識之人為代理人每一副審人委任以不超過三人為限並予以最初為副審代理行為時向全保會提出委任書前向副審代理人全保會認為不適當時得禁止之並以書面通知副審人副審代理人之更換、偵檢或解除"},{"start":44843.67,"end":44858.263,"text":"非以書面通知全保會不審效力副審委任之解除由副審代理人提出者自為解除議事表示之日起15日內仍應為維護副審人權利或法律上利益之必要行為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第28條"},{"start":44860.441,"end":44887.95,"text":"第28條副審代理人就其受委任之事件等為一切副審行為但撤回副審非受特別委任不得為之副審代理人有二人以上者均得單獨代理副審人違反前項規定而為委任者及副審代理人仍得單獨代理副審代理人事實上之陳述經到場之副審人本人即時撤銷或更正者不審效力副審代理權不因副審人本人死亡"},{"start":44888.67,"end":44914.526,"text":"或破產、喪失副審能力或法定代理變更而消滅宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第29條第29條副審人或副審代理人經全保會之許可得於其日協同輔佐人到場全保會認為必要時亦得命副審人或副審代理人協同輔佐人到場前二項輔佐人全保會認為不適當時得廢止其許可或禁止其續為輔佐"},{"start":44916.447,"end":44933.459,"text":"輔助人到場所為之陳述副審人或副審代理人不及時撤銷或更正者視為其所自為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第三節第三節其日及其間宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過請宣讀第30條"},{"start":44934.878,"end":44955.825,"text":"第30條復審人因天災執行軍事勤務或其他不應規則與己之事由至辭勿第15條之復審期間者與其原因消滅後10日內得以書面續名理由向全保會申請恢復原狀但辭勿復審期間已於一年者不得為之申請恢復原狀應同時補刑期間內應為之復審行為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第31條"},{"start":44963.735,"end":44985.214,"text":"第31條緣處分機關告知之復審期間有錯誤時﹐應由該機關以通知更正之﹐並致通知送達之次日起算法定期間緣處分機關未告知復審期間﹐或告知錯誤未通知更正﹐致受處分人持誤者﹐如與處分書送達之次日及一年內提起復審﹐是為於復審期間內所為宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第32條"},{"start":44990.933,"end":45009.589,"text":"第32條下列情形計算法定期間應扣除其在途期間一、副審人向權保會提起副審且不在權保會所在地駐居或服役二、副審人經由原處分機關向權保會提起副審且不在原處分機關所在地駐居或服役"},{"start":45010.629,"end":45025.559,"text":"復審人因第20條第二項情形誤向前二款以外之其他機關提及復審且不在該其他機關所在地駐居或服役前項扣除在途期間辦法由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第33條"},{"start":45027.998,"end":45041.99,"text":"第33條期間之計算除法律令或規定外依行政程序法則規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第4節第4節附審卷宗及文書送達宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過請宣讀第34條"},{"start":45043.342,"end":45071.354,"text":"第34條附審事件之審議記錄、筆錄、決定書及其他相關文書、資料全保會應指派書記官編為卷宗並依法保存之附審人或附審代理人得向全保會申請閱覽、抄錄、影印或涉入卷內文書或預納費用請求賦予散本、影本、截本、重製或複製品全保會對前項申請或請求除了下列情形之一者外不得拒絕"},{"start":45072.034,"end":45097.341,"text":"一、副審事件決定擬辦之文稿二、副審事件決定之準備或審議文件三、為第三人之正當權益有保密之必要四、其他依法律或基於國防、軍事或公益有保密之必要第二項卷內文書之閱覽、抄錄、影印或攝錄全保會應指定日、時、處、所第二項之收費標準有國防部定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":45100.27,"end":45122.278,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第35條第35條附審文書之送達應助民附審人或其代表人附審代理人駐居所、事務所、營業所或服務單位之駐地交付郵務機構以附審文書郵務送達證書發送附審文書不能為前項送達時得由權保會派員或主託原處分機關"},{"start":45123.898,"end":45139.495,"text":"該管警察機關或軍事機關送達令而執行送達人作成送達證書復審文書不能依前二項規定送達者得將文書寄存於送達地之鄉鎮市公所、區公所或村里辦公處並作送達"},{"start":45141.317,"end":45167.725,"text":"通知書二份一份黏貼於因宋達人駐居所事務所或營業所門首一份致於因依受宋達人之信箱或其他適當之處所以為宋達有遺物人名為宋達人者得將文書寄存於附近之有物機構請將寄存宋達自寄存之日起經10日發生效力宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第36條"},{"start":45169.056,"end":45177.244,"text":"第36條附審文書之誦答出前條規定外依行政程序法相關規定辦理宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第5節第5節附審審議宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過請宣讀第37條"},{"start":45185.134,"end":45203.987,"text":"第37條 副審就書面審查決定之權保會於必要時得通知副審人或有關人員到達指定處所陳述意見並接受詢問副審人請求陳述意見而有正當理由者應與到達指定處所陳述意見之機會副審人或有關人員如有不通曉國語者由通譯轉譯之其為聽覺或語言障礙者"},{"start":45209.711,"end":45232.563,"text":"除由通譯傳譯之外並得依其選擇以文字詢問或請其以文字陳述宣讀完畢造審他會條文通過請宣讀第38條第38條全保會於必要時得依職權或副審人之申請通知副審人或其代表人、副審代理人、輔助人及原處分機關派員於指定期日到達指定處所言辭辯論宣讀完畢造審他會條文通過請宣讀第39條"},{"start":45236.385,"end":45253.193,"text":"第39條延遲辯論由資深之專任權保委員主持程序如下一、書記官陳述事件要旨二、副審人或副審代理人就事件為事實上及法律上之陳述三、原處分機關就事件為事實上及法律上之陳述四、有關機關或人員之陳述"},{"start":45254.614,"end":45270.698,"text":"五、副省人、副省代理人或原處分機關對他方之陳述或答辯為再答辯六、全保會對副省人、副省代理人及原處分機關或有關人員提出詢問七、副省人之最後陳述前項言辭辯論未完備者得再為辯論宣讀完畢"},{"start":45275.299,"end":45291.127,"text":"第40條全保會審議複審事件應指令書記官製作審議記錄附卷全保委員與審議中所持予決議不同之意見經其請求者應列入記錄前項記錄得以錄音或錄影輔助之"},{"start":45292.388,"end":45320.751,"text":"附審審議經言辭辯論者應另行製作筆錄編為前項紀錄之附件並准用民事訴訟法第212條至219條之規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第41條第41條附審人得提出證據、書類、證物或其他證據方法全保會限定與一定期間內提出者應於該期間內提出宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第42條"},{"start":45322.079,"end":45341.291,"text":"第42條 全保會得依職權或依附審人之申請﹐命文書或其他物件之持有人提出該物件﹐並得留置之公務員或機關掌管之文書或其他物件﹐全保會得調閱之前項情形除了妨礙國家機密或法律利用規定外﹐該公務員或機關不得拒絕 宣讀完畢照審才會條文通過 請宣讀第43條"},{"start":45343.888,"end":45369.433,"text":"第43條權保會得依職權或主託有關機關構、學校、法人、團體或具專門知識經驗者就必要之物件、證據實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定鑑定人由權保會指定之權保會依前項規定實施勘驗時應將日時、處所通知副審人及有關人員到場第一項所需費用由權保會負擔權保會得依鑑定人之請求欲行著給之"},{"start":45371.053,"end":45379.789,"text":"全討會議第一項檢驗或鑑定之結果﹐非經賦予副審人表示意見之機會﹐不得採為對其不利之副審決定之基礎﹐"},{"start":45381.024,"end":45408.24,"text":"全保會任務實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定之必要而副審人願自行負擔費用請求依第一項規定實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定時全保會非有正當理由不得拒絕依前項規定檢驗、勘驗或鑑定所得的結果具為有利於副審人之決定或裁判時副審人得於副審或行政訴訟確定後30日內請求全保會償還必要之費用宣讀完畢以審查為條文通過請宣讀第44條"},{"start":45410.885,"end":45439.744,"text":"第44條鑑定人依前條所為之鑑定應據鑑定書陳述意見必要時全保會得請其到達指定處所說明鑑定人有數人時得共同陳述意見但意見不同者全保會應使其分別陳述意見鑑定所需資料在原處分機關或全保會者全保會應告知鑑定人準其利用但其利用之範圍及方法得限制之鑑定人應行鑑定得請求全保會調查證據"},{"start":45441.105,"end":45455.998,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第45條第45條附審人對全保會與附審程序進行中所為之程序上處理不符者因並同附審決定提起行政訴訟宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第6節附審決定宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過請宣讀第46條"},{"start":45464.195,"end":45478.952,"text":"第46條附審事件有下列各款情形之一者因為不受理決定一、附審書不合法定程式不能補正或經通知限其補正、借其未補正二、提起附審與法定期間二、"},{"start":45479.692,"end":45499.519,"text":"復審人無復審能力而未由法定代理人代為復審行為,經通知現其補證藉其未補證,是復審人不適格。5.原行政處分已不存在,已執行而無回復原狀可能且提起復審無實意,或行政處分因其他事由而消滅。6.依第13條第2項提及之復審,應作為之全責機關以為行政處分。"},{"start":45503.38,"end":45530.931,"text":"7、對已決定或已撤回之副審事件重新提起副審8、對部署副審救濟範圍內之事項提起副審9、提起副審不被其他法定要件副審人對前項第六款之行政處分不符則應立提起副審第一項第八款情形如屬應提起申訴而誤提副審者選保會應移送申訴管轄機關依申訴程序處理並通知該誤提副審之人不得進圍不受理決定宣讀完畢"},{"start":45531.55,"end":45559.746,"text":"造成那位條文通過請宣讀第47條第47條附審無理由者全保會應以決定不回之原行政處分所憑理由雖屬不當而全保會依其他理由認原行政處分為正當並經給予附審人表示意見之機會者得以附審為無理由提起附審應於法定期間為不受理決定而原行政處分嫌屬違法或顯然不當者全保會得於決定理由中並於指明之宣讀完畢"},{"start":45560.086,"end":45575.148,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第48條第48條依第13條第一項規定提起之附審有理由者權保會應以決定撤銷原行政處分之全部或一部宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第49條"},{"start":45576.792,"end":45604.865,"text":"第49條依第13條第二項規定對權責機關之不作為提起之附審有理由者權保會應以決定指定相當期間命應為行政處分之權責機關訴為一定之行政處分依第13條第二項規定對駁回之行政處分提起之附審有理由者權保會應以決定撤銷原駁回行政處分之全部或一部並發回原處分機關命其於指定之期間內另為處分宣讀完畢"},{"start":45605.345,"end":45633.977,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第50條第50條全保會發現原行政處分雖屬違法或顯然不當但其撤銷或變更與公益有重大損害經斟酌副審人所受損害賠償程度防止方法及其他一切情勢若原行政處分之撤銷或變更嫌與公益相違背時則不謂其副審此項情形應於決定主文中載明原行政處分違法或顯然不當宣讀完畢"},{"start":45634.437,"end":45651.731,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第51條第51條全保會為前條決定時的斟酌副審人因違法或顯然不當行政處分所受損害與決定理由中載明由原處分機關與副審人進行賠償協議前項協議與國家賠償法之協議有同一之效力宣讀完畢審查會條文通過請宣讀第52條"},{"start":45662.281,"end":45680.421,"text":"第52條附審決定應於全保會收受原處分機關檢卷答辯之次日起三個月內為之依第23條規定通知不證者自不證至次日起算未為不證者自不證期間屆滿至次日起算附審人於附審決定期間內需補具"},{"start":45683.084,"end":45684.205,"text":"照審察會條文通過請宣讀第53條"},{"start":45712.176,"end":45739.142,"text":"第53條負審人死亡者負審程序與得承受負審之人承受負審前當然停止負審之決定以他法律關係是否成立為準據而該法律關係在訴訟或其他救濟程序進行中者於該法律關係確定前全保會得停止負審程序之進行並即通知負審人依前二項規定停止負審程序之進行者前條鎖定負審決定期間"},{"start":45741.002,"end":45766.413,"text":"致得承受副審之人承受副審或續行副審程序之日起﹐重新起算宣讀完畢照審才會條案通過請宣讀第54條第54條副審決定書應載明下列事項依副審人姓名、服役單位、職階或職業、住居所或服役單位之住地二、由法定代理人或副審代理人者其姓名、職業、住居所或事務所"},{"start":45767.134,"end":45783.792,"text":"主文、事實及理由及其不受理決定者的不記載事實參與決定之權保委員姓名、年、月、日、副審決定書之正本應於決定後15日內送達副審人及原處分機關宣讀完畢造審會條文通過請宣讀第55條"},{"start":45786.892,"end":45803.809,"text":"第55條附審人不服附審決定者得於附審決定送達至次日其二個月內向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟但附審決定於艦艇航行期間送達者其二個月期間至艦艇返抵"},{"start":45805.791,"end":45822.01,"text":"國內港口之次日起算原處分機關未依第49條規定與全保會指定期間內作成行政處分者副審人得於指定期間屆滿日之次日其二個月內竟向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟"},{"start":45822.831,"end":45845.185,"text":"原處分機關一第49條規定在座層之行政處分副審人仍有不符者,得競向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟其提起行政訴訟期間,準用第一項規定不符第一第9條第三項規定合併審議之副審決定者副審人得向該審議之權保會所在地之勤務法庭合併提起行政訴訟前四項訴訟"},{"start":45847.506,"end":45866.385,"text":"寄過身屆及標的金額或價額在新台幣50萬元以下關於公法上財產關係之訴訟由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法僅依訴訟程序審以外應由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法通常訴訟程序審理宣讀案例上審查會條文通過請宣讀第56條"},{"start":45867.95,"end":45894.76,"text":"第56條附審決定書應附記如不符決定得於前條第一項所定二個月期間內向原處分機關或合併審議之全保會所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟前項提起行政訴訟之期間附記錯誤時應由全保會通知更正之並致更正通知送達之次日起計算法定期間全保會未依第一項規定附記期間或附記錯誤而未依前項規定通知更正"},{"start":45895.18,"end":45920.006,"text":"致原提起行政訴訟之人持務行政訴訟期間者如於附審決定書送達之次日起一年內提起行政訴訟是為於法定期間內提起宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第4章第4章申訴及再申訴宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第1節第1節申訴程序及處理宣讀完畢"},{"start":45920.751,"end":45945.643,"text":"照審查會結明通過請宣讀第57條第57條軍人對於全責機關所為附審事件以外之行政處分或管理措施若違法或不當致影響其權益者得依本法項申訴管轄機關提起申訴軍人不服減速、禁足、罰勤、罰站、人事禁任或簽調之行政處分應依前項規定提起申訴"},{"start":45947.084,"end":45973.522,"text":"軍人與喪屍現役軍人身份後﹑接獲前二項行政處分或管理措施者亦得依第一項規定提起申訴 宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第58條第58條 申訴之提起應於行政處分或管理措施送達之次日起30日內以延遲書面或其他適當方法向申訴管轄機關提出但行政處分或管理措施於艦艇航行"},{"start":45974.423,"end":46002.232,"text":"其監送達者其30日其監至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日起算請向行政處分或管理措施以書面以外方式作成者經受處分或措施之人請求作成書面時原處分機關或原措施機關不得拒絕受處分或措施之人當場表示不服並陳述理由者該機關應依其請求將不服之理由自作記錄交付之宣讀完畢照審才會條文通過請宣讀第59條"},{"start":46003.752,"end":46031.157,"text":"第59條申訴管轄機關對於申訴事件應於收受申訴之次日期30日內就請求事項予以妥適之處理必要時得延長10日並通知申訴人藉其為處理者申訴人得競提再申訴申訴處理以書面為之者因附計如不符處理者得於第62條第二項鎖定20日期間內向全保會提起再申訴以書面以外方式作成者經申訴人請求作成書面時申訴管轄機關不得拒絕"},{"start":46033.197,"end":46042.827,"text":"申訴事件之管轄機關、權責劃分、處理程序及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部及其他軍文並用機關定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":46046.499,"end":46071.75,"text":"第60條 申訴事件有下類情形之一者得不予處理一、提起申訴於第58條第一項鎖定法定期間二、無具體之事實內容或未具真實姓名、服役單位、住址或其他聯絡方式三、同意事由以提起附審、申訴或行政訴訟而仍一再提起四、非申訴管轄機關且或申訴人以同意事由分向各機關申訴宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第61條"},{"start":46075.458,"end":46098.044,"text":"第61條應提起附審之事件勿提申訴管轄機關應疑由原處分機關依附審程序處理並通知該勿提申訴之人宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第二節第二節再申訴程序及處理宣讀完畢照審查會結明通過請宣讀第62條"},{"start":46099.673,"end":46121.565,"text":"第62條不服申訴管轄機關之申訴處理者﹐得依本法向全保會提及再申訴申訴人不服申訴處理者﹐得於申訴處理送達之次日及20日內﹐向全保會提及再申訴但申訴處理於艦艇航行期間送達者﹐其20日期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日起算宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第63條"},{"start":46124.454,"end":46150.054,"text":"第63條提起再申訴因據再申訴書載明下列事項一、再申訴人姓名出生年月日服役單位職階或職業駐居所或服役單位之駐地身份證明文件字號二、由法定代理人或再申訴代理人者其姓名出生年月日職業駐居所或事務所身份證明文件字號"},{"start":46152.063,"end":46156.387,"text":"3.請求事項是再申訴之事實及理由5.證據6."},{"start":46156.387,"end":46162.312,"text":"原行政處分或原管理措施之申訴處理送達之年月日7."},{"start":46162.312,"end":46174.964,"text":"提起再申訴之年月日再申訴書應由再申訴人及法定代理人簽名或蓋章但委任再申訴代理人者應由再申訴代理人簽名或蓋章宣讀完畢造審在會條文通過請宣讀第64條"},{"start":46177.011,"end":46189.749,"text":"第64條再申訴決定應於收受再申訴書之次日期三個月內為之必要使得延長一個月並通知再申訴人宣讀完畢照常常會條文通過請宣讀第65條"},{"start":46192.273,"end":46210.908,"text":"第65條原處分機關、原措施機關或申訴管轄機關對於全保會含詢之再申訴事件應20日內將適時理由及處理意見必附有關資料回覆全保會全項被含詢之機關對於再申訴事件位於前項規定期間內回覆者全保會得盡為決定"},{"start":46212.009,"end":46233.197,"text":"宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第66條第66條對第57條第二項所定之檢訴禁足罰勤罰占行政處分提起再申訴有理由者如該行政處分已經執行完畢全保會因為確認違法之決定全保會為前項決定時準用第51條規定宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第67條"},{"start":46237.421,"end":46260.638,"text":"第67條 應提起副審或申訴之事件﹐勿向全保會提起再申訴者全保會應通知原處分機關或申訴管轄機關﹐依副審或申訴程序處理﹐並通知該勿提再申訴之人 宣讀完畢照審團會條文通過 請宣讀第68條第68條 在申訴處本截另有規定外﹐准用本法副審之規定 宣讀完畢照審團會條文通過 請宣讀第69條"},{"start":46263.424,"end":46281.296,"text":"第69條再申訴人不服再申訴決定者除原行政處分或原管理措施屬顯然輕微之干預外得於再申訴決定送達之次其一個月內向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟"},{"start":46282.316,"end":46311.536,"text":"但在申訴決定於艦艇航行期間送達者其一個月期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日期間原處分機關或原措施機關為第68條准用第49條規定於軍保會指定期間內做成行政處分或管理措施者在申訴人得於指定期間屆滿日之次日及一個月內即向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟"},{"start":46313.236,"end":46339.203,"text":"原處分機關或原措施機關一第68條準用第49條規定再作成之行政處分或管理措施再申訴人仍有不符者﹐得借向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟其提起行政訴訟期間準用第一項規定不符一第9條第三項合併審議之再申訴決定者再申訴人﹐得向該合併審議之權保會所在地之勤務法庭合併提起行政訴訟"},{"start":46340.143,"end":46354.917,"text":"前四項訴訟由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法簡易訴訟程序審理宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第5章第5章高等軍事法院勤務法庭宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第70條"},{"start":46356.345,"end":46378.033,"text":"第70條附審人及再申訴人不符權保會所為之附審或再申訴決定者以勤務法庭為行政訴訟管轄法院第二條鎖定權益爭議事件得盡依行政訴訟法提及行政訴訟者一同勤務法庭審理前項事件除本法令或規定外準用行政訴訟法之規定勤務法庭及其他法院"},{"start":46378.573,"end":46401.423,"text":"兼審判權爭議之處理準用法院組織法之規定勤務法庭應妥術審理其細則由國防部定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第71條第71條勤務法庭由軍事審判官三人合一審理之但檢疫訴訟程序得由軍事審判官一人獨任審理之"},{"start":46402.625,"end":46427.078,"text":"前項合議審判以庭長充任審判長無庭長或庭長有事故時以庭園中階高之身者充任之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第72條第72條合議庭之組織因軍事審判官迴避或其他原因致緣而不足時得由地方軍事法院調充之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第73條"},{"start":46430.134,"end":46455.026,"text":"第73條勤務法庭受理行政訴訟事件免徵裁判費但依行政訴訟法第98條之6第一項第一款規定徵收者不在此限宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第74條第74條對於勤務法庭之裁判得以行政訴訟法第三篇或第四篇規定上訴或抗告於勤務法庭所在地之高等行政法院宣讀完畢"},{"start":46455.751,"end":46483.249,"text":"照審查會條文通過請宣讀第6章第6章負責宣讀完畢照審查會章名通過請宣讀第75條第75條本法規定於暫時戒嚴或動員實施階段有一部或全部暫停適用之必要者其暫停適用之範圍或地域由國防部以命令定之前項情形本法鎖定期間停止進行至恢復適用之次日起重新起算宣讀完畢"},{"start":46483.829,"end":46504.758,"text":"照審會條文通過請宣讀第76條第76條受軍事教育條例第5條第一項第4款軍事養成教育且不具軍人身份之學生於基礎教育期間對於全責機關所謂行政處分或管理措施不符之救濟準用本法之規定宣讀完畢照審會條文通過請宣讀第77條"},{"start":46507.679,"end":46532.724,"text":"第77條本法施行前已依其他法令提起救濟而尚未終結之事件除已係屬於行政法院之事件以原訴訟程序規定審以外應依本法所定程序終結之但已依法定程序進行之行為效力不受影響宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第78條第78條本法施行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":46533.715,"end":46549.561,"text":"法院會議協商結論鄭天才委員等提案第一條羅美玲委員提案第五至第八條鄭天才等提案第十條、十五條羅美玲等提案十六條到十八條第21條、31條、33條、49條、50條"},{"start":46553.643,"end":46554.023,"text":"全案經過二讀,現有民進黨團體繼續進行三讀"},{"start":46584.924,"end":46603.525,"text":"沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文軍人權益事件處理法第一章總則第一條為妥適、迅速、統合處理軍人權益之爭議事件保障軍人權益兼顧部隊紀律並鞏固戰力特制定本法"},{"start":46605.387,"end":46621.607,"text":"2.均與其所屬機關、構、部隊、學校、行政法人或人事權責機關,以下簡稱權責機關,兼關於身份、公法上財產請求、獎懲、考積及其他行政處分或管理措施之爭議,除法律另有規定外,適用本法之規定"},{"start":46623.889,"end":46642.662,"text":"3.軍人權益之救濟,依本法所定副審、申訴、再申訴及行政訴訟程序行之。軍人提及之申訴事件,由各級主管、管業務承辦單位或監察部門以下簡稱申訴管轄機關,依本法處理。副審及再申訴事件,由地方軍事法官"},{"start":46643.442,"end":46666.053,"text":"官兵權益保障會,以下簡稱權保會,依本法審議決定第一審行政訴訟事件由高等軍事法院勤務法庭,以下簡稱勤務法庭依本法及行政訴訟法審理第四條,選擇機關對依本法提起附審、申訴、再申訴或行政訴訟之人不得予以歧視或不公平待遇"},{"start":46667.557,"end":46682.626,"text":"第5條申訴管轄機關、權保會及勤務法庭對於依本法提起申訴、再申訴、複審或行政訴訟之人表示不符之範圍內不得為更不利益之變更或處分第6條原行政處分"},{"start":46683.266,"end":46701.248,"text":"或原管理措施之執行不因依本法所進行之各項程序而停止原行政處分或原管理措施合法性顯有疑義者或其立即執行將發生難以回復之損害且非為維護重大公共利益所必要者權保會申訴管轄機關原處分機關或原"},{"start":46702.99,"end":46731.735,"text":"措施機關與受處分或措施之人向勤務法庭提起行政訴訟前得依職權或依申請就原行政處分或原管理措施之全部或一部停止執行第七條前條第二項停止執行之原因消滅或有其他情勢變更之情形權保會申訴管轄機關原處分機關或原措施機關得依權責或依申請撤銷停止執行第二章地方軍事法院官兵權益保障會"},{"start":46734.516,"end":46749.631,"text":"8.地方軍事法院至專任及兼任官兵權益保障委員若干人,組成全保會或其分會,分組審議、複審及再申訴事件,專任全保委員,由地方軍事法院之國防"},{"start":46750.752,"end":46766.455,"text":"法務官證之兼任全保委員由地方軍事法院臨聘社會公證人士或學者專家任之任期三年連選得連任一次前項兼任全保委員之資格臨聘解聘及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部定之"},{"start":46769.492,"end":46789.597,"text":"復審及再申訴事件由原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之權保會管轄權保會受理前項事件認為全部或一部無管轄權者應依職權移送由管轄權之權保會並通知復審人或再申訴人一人分別提起訴訟復審或再申訴事件或相牽連之訴訟"},{"start":46791.697,"end":46797.981,"text":"復審或再申訴事件權保會得依職權依送、最先受理或關係罪竊締之權保會合併審議並得合併決定恕權保會與管轄權有爭議時由高等軍事法院指定之"},{"start":46806.994,"end":46829.467,"text":"第10條全保會審議副審及再申訴事件應由專任全保委員二人及捐贈全保委員三人合議決定之委員任意性別比例不得少於五分之二前項決定應由全保委員全數出席出席委員過半數之同意行之全保會審議副審及再申訴事件之規則由國防部定之"},{"start":46830.387,"end":46845.126,"text":"第11條全方委員或書記官與副審或在申訴所涉爭議事件有下列情形之一者應自行迴避亦與提及副審或在申訴之人有配偶、四親等內、血親、三親等內、嬰親、家長"},{"start":46847.108,"end":46872.774,"text":"家屬或曾有此關係二、曾參與與該事件之行政調查、行政處分、管理措施或申訴程序三、現為或成為該事件當事人之代理人、輔助人四、與該事件成為證人、鑑定人五、與該事件有法律上利害關係權保委員或書記官有前項鎖定情形之一因自行迴避而不迴避或有具體事實、主任其執行職務有偏頗之餘者"},{"start":46873.494,"end":46900.194,"text":"複審人或再申訴人得備具書狀、續名理由向全保會申請迴避前項申請應舉其原因及事實並應為適當之市民、被申請迴避之人﹐對於該申請得提出意見書全保委員被申請迴避者於全保會就該申請事件為准許或駁回之決定前應停止審議程序但有疾禍情形仍應為必要處理前項決定被申請迴避之全保委員不得參與"},{"start":46901.235,"end":46926.152,"text":"權保委員或書記官有第一項鎖定情形之一不自行迴避而未經附審人或再申訴人申請迴避者應由該權保會依職權命其迴避第12條權保會所為之決定確定後就其事件有拘束各關係、機關構、部隊、學校或行政法人之效力第三章附審第一節附審之提起第13條"},{"start":46927.313,"end":46943.348,"text":"軍人對於權責機關對於其所為涉及軍人身份變更公法上財產請求、獎審或考積事項之行政處分認為違法或顯然不當致損害其權利或法律上之利益者處法律令或規定外的依本法提及附審"},{"start":46944.048,"end":46966.027,"text":"前項事件均仍因權責機關對其依法所為申請與法定期間內因為行政處分而不作為或予以駁回認為損害其權利或法律上之利益者得提起請求該機關因為行政處分或特定內容行政處分之附身前項期間法定為定名者至權責機關受理申請之日期而為二個月"},{"start":46967.608,"end":46981.864,"text":"第14條非軍人基於其原軍人身份之請求權遭受侵害時得依前條規定提起附審軍人與死亡者其遺屬基於該軍人身份所身之公法上的財產請求權遭受侵害時亦同"},{"start":46982.785,"end":47001.833,"text":"第15條附審致提起因致行政處分送達致次日期30日內為之但行政處分於艦艇航行期間送達者其30日期間致艦艇返抵國內港口致次日期算依第3條第二項規定對權責機關致不作為提起附審因爲法定期間"},{"start":47002.893,"end":47027.324,"text":"借滿後使得提起但自提出申請後已於三年者不得提起復審提起之日以原處分機關或權保會收受複審書之日期為準因原處分機關未告知有管轄權之權保會或告知錯誤自復審人物向原處分機關或有管轄權保會以外之機關提起復審者以該機關收受之日視為提起復審之日"},{"start":47029.704,"end":47051.77,"text":"第16條提及副審應據副審書,載明下列事項一、副審人姓名、出生年月日、服役單位職階或職業住居所或服役單位之助力身分證明文件字號二、由法定代理人或副審代理人者及姓名、出生年月日、職業住居所或事務所身分證明文件字號"},{"start":47055.591,"end":47057.172,"text":"3.原處分機關4."},{"start":47057.172,"end":47058.853,"text":"副審請求事項5."},{"start":47058.853,"end":47060.994,"text":"副審之40級理由6."},{"start":47060.994,"end":47063.776,"text":"收受或執行行政處分之年、月、日7."},{"start":47063.776,"end":47066.277,"text":"受理副審之全保會8."},{"start":47066.277,"end":47070.539,"text":"證據,其為文書者因天具散本或銀本9."},{"start":47070.539,"end":47071.08,"text":"由其他"},{"start":47072.096,"end":47097.254,"text":"以提起或進行終之副審或救濟事件時提起副審之年、月、日副審書應由副審人及法定代理人簽名或蓋章但委任副審代理人者應由副審代理人簽名或蓋章提起副審應付原行政處分書影本依第3條第2項規定對權責機關之不作為提起副審者第1項第3款第6款所立事項載明應為行政處分之權責機關申請之年、月、日"},{"start":47100.016,"end":47117.15,"text":"並附原申請書之影本及受理申請機關收受證明第17條原處分機關之認定以實施行政處分時之名義為準但上級機關本於法定職權所為行政處分將由下級機關執行者以該上級機關為原處分機關原處分機關調整或裁撤應以承受其業務之機關為原處分機關依第9條第一項規定定其附審管轄"},{"start":47129.83,"end":47151.439,"text":"復審人應擬具復審書：竟由原處分機關向全保會提起復審：原處分機關對於前項復審：應先行重新審查原行政處分：或不作為是否合法妥當：其任復審為有理由者：得自行撤銷或變更原行政處分：做成行政處分或特定內容之行政處分：並通知全保會"},{"start":47152.839,"end":47169.3,"text":"原處分機關不依附審人之請求徹效或變更原行政處分：做成行政處分或特定內容之行政處分者：應自收到附審書之次日其二十日內附具打便書：並將必要這關係文件與送於全保會原處分機關"},{"start":47171.443,"end":47185.318,"text":"簡卷答辯時應將前項答辯書抄送副審人副審人向權保會提起副審者權保會應將副審書引本或副本送交原處分機關一、第二項至第四項規定辦理"},{"start":47188.103,"end":47197.036,"text":"第19條原處分機關位於前條第三項期間內處理者權保會得依職權或依附審人之請求通知原處分機關於15日內檢送相關卷證資料藉其為檢送者權保會得盡為決定"},{"start":47203.683,"end":47231.963,"text":"第20條復審人在第15條第1項所定期間內向原處分機關或全保會為不符原行政處分之表示者是為已在法定期間內提起復審全保會應依第23條規定通知補正因原處分機關未告知有管轄權之全保會或告知錯誤致復審人勿向原處分機關或有管轄權之全保會以外之機關作不符原行政處分之表示者是為致使向有"},{"start":47232.363,"end":47251.602,"text":"有管轄權之權保會提起副審前項收受之機關應於10日內將該事件移送於有管轄權之權保會並通知副審人第21條副審提起後與副審決定書送達前副審人得撤回之副審經撤回後不得再提起同一之副審"},{"start":47252.881,"end":47273.044,"text":"第二十二條復審提及後復審人死亡者由其繼承人或其他依法得即受原行政處分所涉權利或法律上利益之人承受復審程序但已無取得復審決定之法律上利益或依其限職不得承受者不再此限依形象規定承受復審者"},{"start":47274.185,"end":47293.625,"text":"應於事實發生日期30日內向全保會檢証寄授權利之證明文件依第一項規定的承受副審者未申明承受副審全保會於知悉得承受事由時應通知其承受副審經通知後未申明承受副審者等命其續刑副審"},{"start":47295.558,"end":47322.496,"text":"第23條選保會認為附審書不合法定程式而其情形可補正者應通知附審人於20日內補正第二節附審人第24條能獨立以法律行為負義務者有附審能力無附審能力人應由其法定代理人代為附審行為關於附審之法定代理依民法之規定"},{"start":47324.09,"end":47352.385,"text":"第25條二人以上得對於同意原因事實之行政處分共同提起複審並得選定其中一人至三人為代表人為選定代表人者權保會得現其通知其選定藉其為選定者權保會得依職權指定之選定代表人因於最初為複審行為時向權保會提出文書證明代表人經選定或指定後仍得更換或偵檢之第一項代表人之選定及前項代表人之更換或偵檢"},{"start":47354.249,"end":47380.928,"text":"非經全體副審人書面通知全法會不審效力第26條代表人經審定或指定後由其代表全體副審人為副審行為但這回副審非經全體副審人書面同意不得為之代表人有二人以上者均得單獨代表共同副審人為副審行為代表人之代表權不因其他共同副審人死亡、喪失副審能力或法定代理變更而消滅"},{"start":47382.642,"end":47408.161,"text":"第27條 副審人都委任守安、法律或有專業知識之人為代理人每一副審人委任者以不超過三人為限並因於最初為副審代理行為時向權保會提出委任書前向副審代理人權保會認為不適當時得禁止之並以書面通知副審人副審代理人之更換、偵檢或解除非以書面通知權保會不勝效力"},{"start":47408.962,"end":47418.921,"text":"副審委任之解除由副審代理人提出者自為解除意思表示自日起15日內仍應維護副審人權利或法律上利益之必要行為"},{"start":47420.782,"end":47448.451,"text":"第28條副省代理人就其受委任之事件等為一切副省行為但撤為副省非受特別委任不得為之副省代理人有二人以上者均得單獨代理副省人違反前項規定而為委任者其副省代理人仍得單獨代理副省代理人事實上之陳述經到場之副省人本人即時撤銷或更正者不成效力副省代理權不因副省人本人死亡"},{"start":47448.911,"end":47472.391,"text":"第29條復審人或復審代理人經全保會之許可﹐得於其日協同輔助人到場全保會認為必要時﹐亦得面復審人或復審代理人協同輔助人到場情況向輔助人﹐全保會認為不適當時﹐得廢止其許可或禁止其續為輔助"},{"start":47474.523,"end":47482.055,"text":"輔佐人道場所為之陳述附審人或附審代理人不及時撤銷勿更正者視為其所自為"},{"start":47484.008,"end":47507.741,"text":"第三節其日及其間第30條附審人因天災、執行軍事勤務或其他不應規則與己之事由自辭勿第15條之附審期間者與其原因消滅後10日內得以輸滅姓名理由向全保會申請恢復原狀但辭勿附審期間已逾年者不得為之申請恢復原狀應同時補刑期間內應為之附審行為"},{"start":47511.226,"end":47534.125,"text":"第31條原處分機關告知之覆審期間有錯誤時﹐應由該機關以通知更正之﹐並通知送達之次日起算法定期間原處分機關未告知覆審期間﹐或告知錯誤未通知更正﹐致受處分人持無者﹐如於處分書送達之次日一年內提起覆審﹐是為於覆審期間內所為"},{"start":47536.806,"end":47551.198,"text":"第32條下例情形即在法定期間應扣除其在途期間一、副審人向全保會提起副審且不在全保會所在地駐居或服役二、副審人經由原處分機關向"},{"start":47552.839,"end":47572.526,"text":"全保會提起複審且不再原處分機關所在地駐居或服役三、複審人因第20條第二項情形或向前二款以外之其他機關提起複審且不再該其他機關所在地駐居或服役前項扣除在途期間辦法由國防部定之"},{"start":47573.988,"end":47598.468,"text":"第33條 期間之計算除法律令規定外依行政程序法規定第4節 複審卷宗及文書送達第34條 複審事件之審議記錄、筆錄、決定書及其他相關文書資料全保會應指派書記官編為卷宗並依法保存之複審人或複審代理人得向全保會申請閱版、抄錄、影印或"},{"start":47599.188,"end":47615.297,"text":"設入卷內文書或預納費用請求賦予善本、銀本、結本、重製或複製品權保會對錢箱申請或請求出了下類情形之一者外不得拒絕一、副省事件決定擬稿至文稿二、副省事件決定之"},{"start":47616.357,"end":47618.458,"text":"準備或審議文件3."},{"start":47618.458,"end":47621.24,"text":"為第三人之正當權益有保密之必要4."},{"start":47621.24,"end":47625.383,"text":"其他依法律或基於國防、軍事或公益有保密之必要5."},{"start":47625.383,"end":47631.647,"text":"第二項券內文書之閱欄、抄錄、影印或攝錄全保會應指定日時處所"},{"start":47633.448,"end":47650.277,"text":"第二項是收費標準由國防部定之第三十五條附審文書之送達應助民附審人或其代表人附審代理人駐居所、事務所、營業所或服役單位之駐地交付郵務機構以附審文書郵務送達證書發送"},{"start":47652.618,"end":47674.919,"text":"附審文書不能為前項送達時﹐得由全保會派員或主託員處分機關﹐該管、檢察機關或軍事機關送達﹐並由執行送達人作成送達證書附審文書不能依前二項規定送達者﹐得將文書寄存於送達地之鄉鎮事公所﹐區公所或村里辦公處﹐"},{"start":47676.42,"end":47701.088,"text":"作送達通知書二份一份年貼於因受送達人駐居所駐事務所或營業所門所一份置於因受送達人之信箱或其他適當之處所以為送達郵務人員為送達人者得將文書寄存於附近之郵務機構前項寄存送達自寄存之日起今時日發生效力"},{"start":47702.52,"end":47726.762,"text":"第36條 複審文書之送達出前條規定外依《行政程序法》相關規定辦理第5節 複審審議第37條 複審就書面審查決定之全保會於必要時的通知複審人或有關人員到達指定處所陳述意見並接受詢問複審人請求陳述意見而由正當理由者應與到達指定處所陳述意見之機會"},{"start":47728.303,"end":47743.029,"text":"附審人或有關人員如有不通曉國語者由通譯轉譯之其為聽覺或語言障礙者除由通譯傳譯之外並得依其選擇以文字詢問或請其以文字陳述"},{"start":47746.308,"end":47769.759,"text":"第38條 全保會於必要時得依職權或副審人之申請﹐通知副審人或其代表人﹐副審代理人﹐輔助人及原處分機關﹐派員於指定期日到達指定處所﹐延遲辯論第39條 延遲辯論由資深之專任全保委員主持﹐程序如下﹐一、書記官陳述事件要旨﹐"},{"start":47770.239,"end":47797.381,"text":"二、副審人或副審代理人就事件為事實上及法律上之陳述三、原處分機關就事件為事實上及法律上之陳述四、有關機關或人員之陳述五、副審人、副審代理人或原處分機關對他方之陳述或答辯為再答辯六、全保會對副審人、副審代理人及原處分機關或有關人員提出詢問七、副審人之最後陳述前項言辭辯論為完備者得再為辯論"},{"start":47800.916,"end":47819.467,"text":"第40條全法會審議副審事件應指令書記官製作審議記錄附件全法委員於審議中所持與決議不同之意見經其請求者應列入記錄前項記錄得以錄音或錄影輔助之副審審議經言辭辯論者應另行製作筆錄編為前項記錄之附件並總用民事訴訟法第212條至219條之規定"},{"start":47828.032,"end":47835.785,"text":"第41條富省人得提出證據、書類、證物或其他證據方法權保會限定於一定期間內提出者應於該期間內提出"},{"start":47839.246,"end":47858.539,"text":"第42條 權保會得依職權或依附審人之申請﹐命文書或其他物件之持有人提出該物件﹐並得留置之公務員或機關掌管之文書或其他物件﹐權保會得調閱之前項情形除了妨礙國家機密或法律規定外﹐該公務員或機關不得拒絕"},{"start":47860.185,"end":47887.475,"text":"第43條權保會得依職權或主託有關機關構、學校、法人、團體或具專門知識經驗者就必要致物件、證據、實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定鑑定人由權保會指定之權保會依前項規定實施勘驗時應將日時、處所通知副審人及有關人員到場第一項所需費用由權保會負擔權保會得依鑑定人之請求欲行著給之"},{"start":47889.176,"end":47911.232,"text":"全保會依第一項檢驗、勘驗或鑑定之結果﹐非經賦予副審人表示意見之機會﹐不得採為對其不利之副審決定之基礎全保會任務實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定之必要﹐而副審人應自行負擔費用﹐請求依第一項規定實施檢驗、勘驗或鑑定時﹐全保會非有正當理由不得拒絕﹐"},{"start":47912.092,"end":47926.37,"text":"以前項規定檢驗、勘驗或鑑定所得結果具為有利於副審人之決定或裁判時副審人得於副審或行政訴訟確定後30日內請求全保會償還必要之費用"},{"start":47928.12,"end":47943.873,"text":"第44條鑑定人依前條所為之鑑定應據鑑定書陳述意見必要時權保會得請其到達指定處所說明鑑定人與訴人時得共同陳述意見但意見不同者權保會應使其分別陳述意見"},{"start":47944.814,"end":47957.398,"text":"鑑定所需資料在原處分機關或全法會者全法會應告之鑑定人准其利用但其利用之範圍及方法得限制之鑑定人應行鑑定得請求全法會調查證據"},{"start":47959.878,"end":47979.998,"text":"第45條復審人對全保會與復審程序進行中所謂之程序上處理不符則因並同復審決定提起行政訴訟第6節復審決定第46條復審事件有下類各款情形之一者因為不受理決定依復審書不合法定程式不能補正"},{"start":47980.498,"end":47999.802,"text":"若經通知獻其補證、借其未補證二、提取複審與法定期間三、複審人無複審能力而未由法定代理人代為複審行為經通知獻其補證、借其未補證四、複審人不適格五、允處分與行政處分已不存在"},{"start":48000.262,"end":48025.16,"text":"以執行而無回復原狀可能且提起副審無實役或行政處分因其他事由而消滅：第13條第二項提起之副審：應作為一支權責機關以為行政處分：對已決定或已撤回之副審事件重新提起副審：對部署副審救濟範圍內之事項提起副審：提起副審不被其他法定要件"},{"start":48026.161,"end":48043.665,"text":"副審人對前項第6款之行政處分不符者應另提起副審第一項第8款情形如屬應提起申訴而誤提副審者權保會應移送副審管轄機關依申訴程序處理並通知該誤提副審之人不得盡為不受理決定"},{"start":48046.189,"end":48063.104,"text":"第47條附審無理由者,權保會應以決定駁回之,原行政處分所憑理由雖屬不當,而權保會依其他理由認原行政處分為正當,並經給予附審人表示意見之機會者,得以附審無為無理由"},{"start":48064.386,"end":48076.06,"text":"提起副審應於法定期間而不受理決定而行政處分嫌屬違法或顯然不當者權保會得於決定理由中並於指明之"},{"start":48077.608,"end":48100.713,"text":"第48條依第13條第1項規定提起之附審有理由者權保會應以決定撤銷原行政處分之全部或一部第49條依第13條第2項規定對權責機關之不作為提起之附審有理由者權保會應以決定指定相當期間命應為行政處分之權責機關作為一定之行政處分"},{"start":48101.633,"end":48114.919,"text":"一、第13條第二項規定對駁回之行政處分提及之附審有理由者權保會應以決定撤銷原駁回行政處分之權部或一部並發回原處分機關命其於指定之期間內另為處分"},{"start":48117.56,"end":48142.866,"text":"第50條軍保會發現原行政處分雖屬違法或顯然不當﹐但其撤銷或變更與公益有重大損害﹐經審斟酌副審人所受損害﹐賠償程度﹐防止方法及其他一切情勢﹐令原行政處分之撤銷或變更顯與公益相違背時﹐等不為其副審﹐此項情形應於決定主文中﹐載明原行政處分違法或顯然不當"},{"start":48144.52,"end":48156.233,"text":"第51條捐保會為潛逃決定時的斟酌副審人因違法或顯然不當行政處分所受損害與決定理由中載民原行政由原處分機關與副審人進行賠償協議結項協議與國家賠償法之協議有同一之效力"},{"start":48163.857,"end":48184.668,"text":"第52條附審決定應於全保會收受原處分機關檢卷答辯之次日起三個月內為之依第23條規定通知補正者自補正之次日起算未為補正者自補正期間屆滿之次日起算附審人於附審決定期間內需補具理由者"},{"start":48185.789,"end":48207.148,"text":"副審決定期間至全保會收受最後補具理由之次日起算副審事件不能於前二項期間內決定者得予延長並通知副審人延長以一次為限最長不得於二個月副審人與延長決定期間後再補具理由者副審決定期間至全保會收受補具理由之次日起算不得於二個月"},{"start":48209.23,"end":48224.05,"text":"第53條復審人死亡者復審程序於得承受復審之人承受復審前單人停止復審之決定以他法律關係是否成立為准據而該法律關係在訴訟或其他救濟程序進行中者"},{"start":48225.531,"end":48243.103,"text":"該法律關係確定前,全保會得停止複審程序之進行,並即通知複審人。依前二項規定停止複審程序之進行者前條鎖定複審決定期間,自得承受複審之人承受複審或續刑複審程序之日起,重新起算。"},{"start":48244.738,"end":48270.863,"text":"第54條 附審決定書應載明下列事項一、附審人姓名、服役單位、職階或職業、住居所或服役單位之註定二、由法定代理人或附審代理人者其姓名、職業、住居所或職事務所三、主文事實及理由其系不受理決定者的不記載事實四、在已決定之權保委員姓名"},{"start":48272.677,"end":48298.48,"text":"五、年、月、日復審決定書之正本應於決定後15日內送達復審人及原處分機關第55條復審人不服復審決定者得於復審決定送達之次日其二個月內向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟但復審決定於艦艇航行期間送達者其二個月期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日起算"},{"start":48299.341,"end":48326.877,"text":"原處分機關未依第49條規定與全保會指定期間內作成行政處分者副省人得予指定期間屆滿日之次日及二個月內竟向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟原處分機關依第49條規定再作成之行政處分副省人仍有不符者得竟向原處分機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟其提起行政訴訟期間準用第一項規定"},{"start":48328.078,"end":48356.877,"text":"不符1、9、3項規定合併審議之附審決定者附審人得向該審議之權保會所在地之勤務法庭合併提起行政訴訟前四項訴訟除寄過、申借及標的金額或價額在新台幣50萬元以下關於公法上財產關係之訴訟由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法簡易訴訟程序審理外亦由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法通常訴訟程序審理"},{"start":48359.44,"end":48360.823,"text":"第56條附審決定書因附計"},{"start":48366.887,"end":48392.078,"text":"如不符決定應於前條第1項所定2個月期間內向原處分機關或合併審議之權保會所在地之請勿法庭提起行政訴訟前項提起行政訴訟之期間復計錯誤時應由權保會通知更正之並致更正通知送達致斥日期計算法定期間權保會未依第1項規定復計期間或復計錯誤而未依前項規定通知更正"},{"start":48392.498,"end":48409.5,"text":"致原提起行政訴訟之人持務行政訴訟期間者如於附審決定書送達之次日其一年內提起行政訴訟是為於法定期間內提起第四章 申訴及再申訴第一節 申訴程序及處理"},{"start":48411.092,"end":48432.864,"text":"第57條軍人對於權責機關或所為附審事件以外之行政處分或管理措施認為違法或不到致影響其權益者得依本法項申訴管轄機關提起申訴軍人不服檢訴、禁足、罰勤、罰債、人事禁任或簽調之行政處分依前項規定提起申訴"},{"start":48433.904,"end":48440.97,"text":"軍人與喪屍現役軍人身份後﹐接獲前二項行政處分或管理措施者﹐亦得依第1項規定提起申訴"},{"start":48445.705,"end":48471.456,"text":"68條申訴之提起因於行政處分或管理措施送達至次日其三十日內以延遲書面或其他適當方法向申訴管轄機關提出但行政處分或管理措施於建庭航行期間送達者其三十日期間至建庭返抵國內港口之次日其算前向行政處分或管理措施以書面以外方式作成者經受處分或措施之人請求作成"},{"start":48472.356,"end":48501.039,"text":"書面時原處分機關或原錯失機關不得拒絕受處分或錯失之人當場表示不服並陳述理由者該機關依其請求將不服之理由製作記錄交付之第59條申訴管轄機關對於申訴事件應於收受申訴之次日起30日內就請求事項予以妥適之處理必要時的延長10日並通知申訴人藉其未處理者申訴人得進提再申訴"},{"start":48501.9,"end":48526.745,"text":"申訴處理以書面為之者應附計如不符處理者得於第62條第二項所定20日期間內向全法會提起再申訴以書面以外方式作成者經申訴人請求作成書面時申訴管轄機關不得拒絕申訴事件之管轄機關權則劃分處理程序及其他相關事項之辦法由國防部及其他軍文並用機關定之"},{"start":48530.393,"end":48557.169,"text":"第60條申訴事件有下列情形之一者得不予處理一、提起申訴於第58條第一項所定法定期間二、無具體事實內容或畏懼真實姓名、服役單位、住址或其他聯絡方式三、同意事由以提起附審、申訴或行政訴訟而仍一再提起四、非申訴管轄機關皆或申訴人以同事由分向各機關申訴"},{"start":48559.363,"end":48582.757,"text":"第61條應提起附審之事件誤提申訴者申訴管轄機關應疑由原處分機關依附審程序處理並通知該誤提申訴之人第二節再申訴程序及處理第62條不服申訴管轄機關之申訴處理者得依本法向全保會提起再申訴"},{"start":48583.557,"end":48599.155,"text":"申訴人不服申訴處理者得於申訴處理送達之次日其20日內向選保會提及再申訴但申訴處理於艦艇航行期間送達者其20日期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日起算"},{"start":48600.711,"end":48617.632,"text":"第63條提起再申述應具再申述書斬名下列事項一、再申述人姓名、出生年月日、服役單位、職階或職業、住居所或服役單位之住地身分證明文件字號"},{"start":48619.472,"end":48646.946,"text":"2、有法定代理人或再申訴代理人者其姓名、出生年月日、職業、住居所或事務所、身份證明文件字號3、請求事項、是再申訴之事實及理由5、證據6、原行政處分或原管理措施之申訴處理送達之年月日7、提起再申訴之年月日再申訴書應由再申訴人及法定代理人簽名或蓋章但委任再申訴代理人者"},{"start":48647.706,"end":48661.003,"text":"應由再申訴代理人簽名或蓋章第64條再申訴決定應於收受再申訴書之次日期三個月內為之必要時延長一個月並通知再申訴人"},{"start":48662.202,"end":48682.128,"text":"第65條 原處分機關、原措施機關或申訴管轄機關對於全保會函詢之再申訴事件應於20日內將事實、理由及處理意見必附有關資料回覆全保會前項被函詢之機關對於再申訴事件位於前項規定期間內回覆者全保會得盡為決定"},{"start":48684.381,"end":48697.027,"text":"第66條對第57條第二項所定之檢訴、禁足、罰勤、罰占行政處分提起再申訴有理由者如該行政處分已經執行完畢權保會因為確認違法之決定權保會為前項決定時準用第51條規定"},{"start":48707.438,"end":48726.994,"text":"第67條應提起複審或申訴之事件,勿向權保會提起再申訴者權保會應通知原處分機關或申訴管轄機關依複審或申訴程序處理,並通知該勿提再申訴之人第68條再申訴處本結令或規定外,準用本法複審之規定"},{"start":48728.803,"end":48757.398,"text":"第69條再申訴人不服再申訴決定者除原行政處分或原管理措施屬顯然輕微之干預外得於再申訴決定送達之次日期一個月內向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟但再申訴決定於艦艇航行期間送達者其一個月期間至艦艇返抵國內港口之次日起算"},{"start":48759.008,"end":48777.221,"text":"原處分機關或原措施機關未依第68條準用第49條規定與全保會指定期間內作成行政處分或管理措施者在申訴人得於指定期間屆滿日之次日及一個月內即向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提及行政訴訟"},{"start":48778.422,"end":48794.876,"text":"原處分機關或原措施機關依第68條準用第49條規定在作成之行政處分或管理措施在申訴人仍有不符者得盡向原處分機關或原措施機關所在地之勤務法庭提起行政訴訟其提起行政訴訟期間準用第一項規定"},{"start":48796.477,"end":48820.541,"text":"不符一、第九條第三項合併審議之再申訴決定者再申訴人得向該合併審議之權保會所在地之勤務法庭合併提起行政訴訟前四項訴訟由勤務法庭准用行政訴訟法簡易訴訟程序審理第五章高等軍事法院勤務法庭"},{"start":48822.372,"end":48842.835,"text":"第70條附審人及再申訴人不服全保會所為之附審或再申訴決定者以勤務法庭為行政訴訟管轄法院第二條鎖定權益爭議事件得進一行政訴訟法提起行政訴訟者以同勤務法庭審理前項事件除本法令有規定外準用行政訴訟法之規定"},{"start":48844.297,"end":48854.937,"text":"請用法庭及其他法院兼審判權爭議之處理準用法院組織法則規定請用法庭應妥術審理其細則由國防部定制"},{"start":48856.229,"end":48876.238,"text":"第七十一條請問法庭有軍事審判官3人合意審理之﹐但檢疫訴訟程序得由軍事審判官1人獨任審理之﹐請向合意審判與庭長充任審判長﹐無庭長或庭長有事故時﹐以庭園中皆高資深者充任之"},{"start":48877.438,"end":48897.523,"text":"第72條何益廷之組織因軍事審判官迴避或其他原因致員額不足時得由地方軍事法院調充之第73條僅有法庭受理行政訴訟事件免徵裁判費但依行政訴訟法第98條之6第一項第一款規定徵收者不再實現"},{"start":48899.502,"end":48910.418,"text":"第74條對於勤務法庭之裁判得依行政訴訟法第三篇或第四篇規定上訴或抗告於勤務法庭所在地之高等行政法院"},{"start":48911.977,"end":48934.319,"text":"第6章 負責第75條本法規定於暫時戒嚴或動員實施階段有一部或全部暫停適用之必要者其暫停適用之範圍或地域由國防部以命令定之傾向情形本法鎖定期間停止進行至恢復適用之次日起重新計算第76條"},{"start":48936.61,"end":48950.589,"text":"受軍事教育條例第五條第一項第四款軍事養成教育且不具軍人身份之學生與基礎教育期間對於權責機關所謂行政處分或管理措施不符之救濟准用本法之規定"},{"start":48953.462,"end":48978.101,"text":"第77條本法實行前以依其他法令提起救濟而尚未終結之事件除以系屬於行政法院之事件依原訴訟程序規定審理外依本法所定程序終結之但以依法定程序進行之行為效力不受影響第78條本法實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":48979.687,"end":49003.813,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議軍人權益事件處理法自定通過報告委員會討論事項第23案野生動物保育法部分條文修正案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":49010.845,"end":49037.462,"text":"更正我們繼續處理軍人權益事件處理法的附帶決議繼續處理審查會所做之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容通過附帶決議三項一、為求公正公開請國防部參照行政院工程委員會、交易部等部會之相關做法完善相關執法並公開與國防部相關網站"},{"start":49039.249,"end":49046.299,"text":"寧應公開委員遴選作業程序並納入人民團體代表意見將相關名單公開於國防部相關網站"},{"start":49047.608,"end":49070.07,"text":"二、請國防部訂定相關執法時﹐應考量當事人演訓、休假、出海狀況﹐給予足夠準備時間﹐避免影響當事人權益三、針對本法第8條有關堅韌、權保委員資格﹐應於同條第4項授權訂定之辦法中明確規範堅韌﹐"},{"start":49072.794,"end":49096.656,"text":"權保委員其原服役單位等利益迴避事項．退役軍職人員兼任委員之比例限制宣讀完畢法院會議協商結論照案通過報言會我們進入討論事項第23案野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":49097.591,"end":49116.684,"text":"本院經濟委員會於113年4月11日舉行全體委員會議進行審查由召集委員邱益穎擔任主席會中邀請農業部代理部長陳俊濟就行政院及委員提案提出說明並答覆委員質詢另邀請援助民主委員會等相關機關派員列席備詢"},{"start":49119.959,"end":49141.835,"text":"與會委員於聽取說明及詢答後：對法案進行逐條審查及縝密討論：並將全案併案審查完略：擬具審查報告提報院會討論：院會討論前需交由黨團協商：院會討論本案時：由經濟委員會召集委員邱益穎補充說明：另通過附帶決議二項：另有附帶決議一項保留送院會處理宣讀完畢"},{"start":49142.934,"end":49165.666,"text":"請召集委員、邱毅英委員補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商令台灣民眾黨黨團提案與經第一會期第11次會議決定近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商盧憲毅委員、武麗華委員、陳素月委員、羅廷偉委員分別提案"},{"start":49166.346,"end":49183.423,"text":"翻經第一會期第11次、第22次會議決定自委員會抽出淨附二讀與相關提案並按協商報告委員會因上代協商作以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":49185.064,"end":49199.349,"text":"報言會我們進入討論事項第24案中華民國政府部份停止中華民國與沙瓦多共和國及宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定施行文書請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":49200.322,"end":49217.663,"text":"本院外交及國防經濟二委員會於113年7月3日舉行聯席會議進行審查會議由外交及國防委員會王兆及委員定於擔任主席會中請外交部常務次長陳立國等報告並且法務部派員列席備詢"},{"start":49219.629,"end":49243.954,"text":"與會委員於聽取報告並經詢答後選舉進行審查：充分討論將全案審查完略原決議擬具審查報告提報院會院會審議前不須交由黨團協商院會討論本案時由紅委員生漢補充說明宣讀完略請紅生漢委員補充說明無補充說明本案經審議會審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有無異議"},{"start":49249.022,"end":49266.51,"text":"沒有異議本案僅依審查會意見處理並依條約案處理例競作以下決議中華民國政府部分停止中華民國與沙瓦多共和國及宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定私行文書造案通過"},{"start":49269.293,"end":49285.135,"text":"我們現在進入討論事項第25案我國與宏都拉斯共和國自112年12月6日終止中華民國與薩爾瓦多共和國暨宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":49285.936,"end":49301.788,"text":"本院外交及國防經濟委員會於113年7月3日舉行聯席會議進行審查會議由外交及國防委員會王兆吉委員定於擔任主席會中請外交部常務次長陳立國等報告並請法務部派員列席備詢與會委員於聽取報告並經詢答後選及進行審查經中份討論將全案審查完略"},{"start":49310.074,"end":49329.006,"text":"原決議擬具審查報告提報院會院會審議前不需交由黨團協商院會討論本案時由洪委員生漢補充說明宣讀完畢請洪生漢委員補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議不需再交由黨團協商請問院會有無異議"},{"start":49332.417,"end":49354.026,"text":"本會議禁依審查會意見處理並依條約案處理例禁作以下決議中華民國與宏都拉斯共和國自112年3月6日終止中華民國與薩爾瓦德共和國及宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定照案通過報告委員會我們進入討論事項第26案"},{"start":49356.98,"end":49363.411,"text":"馬拉克十世界貿易組織協定修正議定書及其附件漁業補貼協定請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":49366.755,"end":49382.223,"text":"本院外交及國防經濟二委員會於113年7月3日舉行聯席會議進行審查會議由外交及國防委員會王兆吉委員定於擔任主席會中請外交部常務次長陳立國等報告並請經濟部等相關機關派員列席備詢與會委員於聽取報告並經審查後選舉進行審查經充分討論將全案審查完略"},{"start":49392.549,"end":49412.384,"text":"原決議全案審查完略審查結果提報院會院會審議前不須交由黨團協商院會討論本案時由洪委員生漢補充說明宣讀完畢請洪生漢委員補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有無異議"},{"start":49416.462,"end":49431.621,"text":"沒有異議本案僅依審查會意見處理並依條約案處理例競作以下決議馬拉克思世界貿易組織協定修正議定書及其附件漁業補貼協定照案通過"},{"start":49436.104,"end":49444.791,"text":"報告委員會本日會議進行到此為止7月16日星期二上午9點我們繼續開會進行後續討論事項另外請各黨團幹部於上午9點至紅樓302會議室進行協商現在休息"}]}},{"id":"154769","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154769","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/302c82e5b31f1f88444c317b3b561d2e5812a29c5c632c78bc1c891f2f0f598643de59c930387d485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"20:37:38 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