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謝謝各黨團幹部10點半時間已到現在我們進行協商劉許廷委員等35位凝聚立法院組織法第32條33條及35條條文修正草案本案經114年12月26號本院第11屆第4會期第15次院會決定近乎二讀並由國民黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":67.794,"end":86.4,"text":"國民黨團翁曉琳委員與本日上午召集協商經充分討論但是沒有辦法達成共識現在請各黨團代表表示意見首先我們請提案的國民黨團以及牛喜廷委員在場先做說明好嗎然後請民進黨團請準備"},{"start":91.345,"end":113.869,"text":"好 謝謝主席各黨團的代表大家早安這個立法院組織法32條跟等等的修正案這長期以來被污名化變成所謂的除罪化法案但是我還是要藉這樣協商的機會再次重申如果大家有仔細看法條的內容基本上這是一個助理待遇的助理加薪法案那很多人在什麼補助"},{"start":114.349,"end":130.898,"text":"定性等等上面做文字的爭執我只要再次強調我們過去修正的民代知己條例針對地方民意代表的助理就已經全部定性成為補助費而且這是行政院的版本甚至行政院的版本在立法說明裡面還把公費兩個字拿掉就是為了強化它是補助的這樣一個性質"},{"start":132.159,"end":151.439,"text":"那如果按照民進黨對這個法案的指控說這樣子的修法是除罪那難道行政院是在幫詐領助理費的議員除罪嗎我認為這個邏輯上是說不通的當初不管是修民代知己條例或者是今天討論立院組織法的修正都是要強化基層政治工作者的待遇這一點我一定要再三說明那麼另外"},{"start":152.1,"end":173.109,"text":"這一段時間在協商冷凍期裡面其實我們是跟工會跟立法院因為是執行機關其實是保持非常非常密切的對話因此我們也有提出相關的一些修正動議像我們立法院有提醒啊如果有涉及到這個立法院的補助費的調整因為是待遇的關係要避免自肥所以應該要有一個日出條款所以我們在修正動議裡面都有把日出條款加進去也就是由第12屆的立法"},{"start":174.769,"end":202.34,"text":"願再來開始做施行所以即便這個會稍微增加一些助理的待遇跟補助大家也會有點擔心社會觀感會不會不好的問題但如果是下一屆才開始上路我們是為未來在做打算而不是為我們現在的利益在做打算所以我想也沒有自肥的問題這部法案我希望大家在協商的時候可以盡量對焦在我們要給助理哪一些的待遇跟福利多少額度的這樣子的一個提升在這些地方有達成一個好的共識之後如果可以簽字不用表決那當然是100分的結果"},{"start":203.74,"end":209.561,"text":"就看看今天有沒有這樣的契機可以完成這樣子的歷史工作 以上我只能很清楚的表示"},{"start":226.892,"end":234.983,"text":"反對理由何其多 不言可議反正就是反對剛才用一首發言我們都認為沒有辦法接受"},{"start":236.397,"end":257.675,"text":"柯總召很明確表達反對專委員您稍微等一下我們請台灣民眾黨團幹部講完這就輪到您好嗎好 請台灣民眾黨團請表達意見我們贊成這次的修正案因為它沒有除罪化的問題而且沒有自費因為它明定了從下一屆就是不是我們的第11屆下一屆的公費助理才有這樣的一個福利我要強調的"},{"start":259.64,"end":283.306,"text":"這一次裡面很多人都在講殺除罪話可是看這次修正條文裡面根本就沒有這個問題第二個它有的是增加我們公會助理的福利而且在整個過程裡面我的了解是跟立法院也有討論跟公會助理的公會也有討論可是呢台灣民眾黨有要求提了一個修正案就贊成這個原則上贊成這個國民黨提這個修正案可是有一點就是第八項"},{"start":285.285,"end":311.331,"text":"公費助理的結婚補助還有生意補助還有商帳補助跟子女的教育補助費這個金額太大了這可能要上億喔這個金額太大了所以我們主張我們把這一項把它刪掉其他我們都支持OK好這個也是我們跟立法院立法院討論立法院認為有意見的對不對了解好我們接下來請莊瑞雄委員請發言"},{"start":312.847,"end":341.929,"text":"好 謝謝院長剛剛中國國民黨跟台灣民眾黨講這個理由都不通為什麼說不通呢這個案子我要在這地方特別提醒今天是1月30號院長 這個幾乎我們是最後一天這個案子如果通過的話我相信社會會嘩然第一 這個案子是淨富二讀的案子這個案子沒有那麼崇高"},{"start":343.354,"end":355.84,"text":"這是提出來的修正案這個代表本來是要到監獄裡面把那個犯人給搶劫出來搶劫不成以後呢就換上聖誕老公公的服裝然後就說我沒有我是來發糖果的發給大家糖果的我沒有要截球"},{"start":364.895,"end":377.962,"text":"在這個案子裡面各位把它看法律不是這樣解釋修正案第二項裡面是說立法院應該每年以公務預算編列消費立法委員的補助費所以在法律的定性裡面如果是立法委員的補助費的話好啦立法委員的"},{"start":388.414,"end":415.315,"text":"臺灣民眾黨你們就標準 舉著道德的大旗然後這個案子你們現在在講說沒有 我們要增加助理費增加助理的福利這個三黨沒有人反對啊你要增加助理的福利提高他們的待遇來增強國會問政的能量社會你也不用擔心他會反對啦這個民進黨來跟你支持我們來跟你支持可是這個案子不是這樣來的"},{"start":416.92,"end":418.961,"text":"這個案子是為了除罪化而來的然後到最後才提修正案這個案子本來是近乎二讀那如果是各個政黨對整個國會助理整個法案是這麼的崇高的話為什麼要偷偷摸摸就在委員會裡面討論就好啦就在委員會裡面討論就好啦是劉許廷委員還有一點良知提出修正案"},{"start":445.66,"end":449.942,"text":"不然這個案子是苟且耶是要搶監獄裡面的囚犯出來耶然後你們穿幫了以後 沒有我現在送給助理我們是來給糖果的 來給禮物的這個不要騙社會各政黨都有人來拜託就明講嘛 幹嘛騙社會大眾我最痛恨的就是說明明要幹邪惡的事情然後又在那邊包裝 包裝得很漂亮"},{"start":474.488,"end":477.431,"text":"想要除罪話也沒關係 讓社會大眾知道就是說因為我藍白 我人數就比你還多嘛你民進黨算什麼想除罪話就除罪話 會不會過 會過但這樣好嗎 最後一天這樣子好嗎這個案子沒有正當性啦"},{"start":492.554,"end":505.783,"text":"真的沒有正當性了最後一天我們通過這個案子這是責損大家啦你們各位都是偉大的政治家你們在政壇還要繼續混下去我們不一定要混下去我們可以回歸社會我沒有幹立法會我也不會死掉但這樣對嗎我在戳破你們這個假面具"},{"start":518.604,"end":534.273,"text":"這個案子從來就不是為了要增加助理的福利 都不是如果要增加助理的福利三黨協商很快啊大家來劃壓 這個案子就撤掉啊明年下個會期大家都還在啊就讓他過就好啦有差這兩個月 差這一個月嗎幹嘛這樣偷偷摸摸不敢討論讓社會大眾來討論 我告訴各位啊"},{"start":549.758,"end":568.769,"text":"最高法院的見解就講得很清楚為什麼那麼多議員他會被抓去關最高法院就認為說助理補助費用這個助理的補助費用至死非屬議員實質薪資範圍你這第二項把它定下去的話變成立法委員的實質薪資你這顛覆了最高法院的看法"},{"start":574.155,"end":597.091,"text":"案子寫得很漂亮啊但是問題是你這個案子這樣下去以後變成立法委員的實質薪資我既然是我立法委員的實質薪資我哪有貪污我自己錢的問題寫得很巧妙但不要騙社會大眾這個案子我反對謝謝莊瑞雄委員發言莊瑞雄委員口中所敘述有良知的牛許廷委員你要不要再講兩句"},{"start":601.67,"end":626.665,"text":"一下講有良知一下又說會社會化人就很奇怪嘛這個如果真的要談補助費的流變的話其實大家應該都知道在場很多都是我的前輩大家都很了解最早最早立法院在給所謂的助力補助的時候他最早是大水庫理論也就是直接撥交到立法委員的戶頭但撥交到立法委員的戶頭之後衍生很多問題第一有些人沒有辦法全部用完那就變相變成了立法委員自己的金額"},{"start":627.185,"end":648.963,"text":"第二 當出現這樣的事情的時候你怎麼課稅呢就是因為因應這樣的事情所以才產生了後來這個不管是為了防弊或者是為了避免稅務的複雜才出現立法院代收代付所以我覺得這樣子的一個這樣子的一個制度大家應該予以維持嘛那現在我們雖然調升了很多助理的補助待遇但是整個架構它都是維持的也就是這些助理的待遇一樣由立法院直接撥款到"},{"start":649.824,"end":673.97,"text":"助理的戶頭嘛所以就不會有大家的懷疑或者是指控說這個會跑到立法院口袋變成立法委員的實質薪資等等的這樣子的一些問題但我覺得不管從自古以來到現在流變本質上立法委員跟助理之間是僱傭關係但是我們要僱傭這些助理錢從哪裡來當然是立法院編補助金額啊我覺得這是正常的法理啦所以我就只是把它寫清楚而已那我也要再次強調明代議員是這樣寫的"},{"start":676.471,"end":689.54,"text":"那難道議員就處罪了嗎 其實沒有嘛你快關注很多判例剛剛莊銳銓委員也講了最高法院有最高法院的見解嘛所以說這次修真的會推翻所有的見解嗎我覺得也不盡然是如此啦所以我覺得大家應該用寬一點的心態來看待這件事 以上錯 院長我要馬上回應這個講法是不對的因為你第二項把它明定成變成立法委員的補助費用這句話的話就會推翻最高法院的一個見解啦"},{"start":704.091,"end":727.584,"text":"因為我要徵詢一下台灣民眾黨台要不要發言因為沈伯陽委員已經舉手了所以我一定要徵詢一下台灣民眾黨台要不要補充發言我簡單補充啦水泳哥在稱讚那個有良知的那個許廷今天用的主要就是有良知的許廷的案子阿台灣民眾黨只是把他規定的更嚴格而已阿那個水泳哥這裡面沒有一個字有除罪話你那個眼睛有看到除罪話這個字嗎"},{"start":729.045,"end":739.315,"text":"我跟妳講這個變成立法委員的補助費用就變成你立法委員的法院就沒辦法判罪嘛都是強化公費助理的這個福利沒有關係 那個沈博焱委員發言完畢之後我要做宣告了好嗎沈博焱委員請掌握時間 簡短21謝謝"},{"start":752.374,"end":777.571,"text":"這個昨天其實有協商過但是那時候我想說不要我以為今天不會硬撸所以沒有把話講那麼重除罪化跟不除罪化取決於犯罪的構成要件犯罪的構成要件在貪污治罪管理條例的第五條的第二項第一項的第二款叫做利用職務上之機會以詐數使人將本人或第三人職務交付"},{"start":778.371,"end":801.9,"text":"所以重點是今天我們的那一個條文定在貪汙自罪管理條例所以如果你今天修了一個組織法你這個法律會影響到什麼定義所謂的本人之物這個就變成關鍵所以以往為什麼詐領助理費它會是一個犯罪行為是因為那個本人被認為是國家的財產所以你用詐數騙了國家的財產所以這個叫詐領助理費嘛"},{"start":806.022,"end":835.422,"text":"所以如果今天我們把這一個事情把專業家計以外原本的助理費就是稅入的那個五倍還沒有寫上線把它定成是立法委員自己的錢的話那這個時候就不會符合第五條第一項第二款的這個構成要件這也是高鴻安案那時候立法院給出來的意見讓他也變成用一樣的解釋方式現在就是要把那時候給的意見直接明文化但我這個是反對的"},{"start":836.142,"end":860.943,"text":"然後第二個呢 我昨天已經強調過了有幾件事情要做其實很簡單剛剛如果藍白都認為說這根本就沒有除罪話OK 我覺得我也 我也認為沒有要除罪話那如果真的是這個樣子的話 那很簡單啊那就把義領助理費 還有虛報人頭還有上限 還有時報時銷 寫在上面就好啦"},{"start":861.644,"end":885.998,"text":"就直接寫說如果我今天是虛報然後我今天是要求繳回如果我是義領仍舊回歸貪污自罪管理條例處理那這樣就沒問題啦因為大家都知道說啊對對對那這樣的話並沒有除罪話因為剛剛講的那一些事情都還是犯罪行為這樣不就好了嗎我昨天已經講過啦所以照理說應該昨天講過了今天應該把他弄上去嘛但是沒有"},{"start":887.455,"end":905.602,"text":"好 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牛許廷委員是第十一屆藍營最年輕的立委我是第十屆藍營最年輕的立委我其實本來不想發言 但我沒有辦法忍受當執政黨所有的委員輪方上台砲轟針對我們特定的某一個委員很抱歉 我們要講 我們理直氣順但更重要的是 我們是一個團結的群體"},{"start":30.965,"end":58.724,"text":"我們不會接受任何群體政黨對我們的政黨工作者有任何一絲一毫的惡意攻擊跟抹黑造謠牛許廷委員在這個過程裡面找了助理工會找了立法院法治局找了相關單位來回修正討論持續溝通就是希望能夠增進立法院助理的專業加級以及品質"},{"start":60.502,"end":80.974,"text":"這樣子的一個做法居然被站著說話不腰疼過去八年沒有處理我們現在處理了我們希望的是能夠讓未來台灣的立法院有更好的助理待遇以提升我們全體的立法品質這是我們共同的目標也是共同的期許"},{"start":81.598,"end":108.801,"text":"我們更要講我們現在過去以及未來不會讓我們任何一個立委同仁孤單因為我們會群體群力繼續為台灣繼續為全民打拚跟奮鬥最後今天剛剛大家也釐清一一從早上的國事論壇我就一直提到感謝民眾黨過去六位委員兩年的時間我們充分配合讓台灣的主流民意能夠彰顯"},{"start":109.827,"end":126.272,"text":"未來我們一定會繼續努力台灣最難能可貴的地方在於多元包容而主流民意就是我們永遠的堅持祝福藍天永存白雲再現而藍天白雲共同為台灣為中華民國加油"}]}},{"id":"167405","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167405","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a979940435a542a96fef610852d0c756f8f46b941d3c9d1fc90628ecc4a3d608f005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"20:58:15 - 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各位我們立法院的同仁 各位美女朋友其實已經最後一個了心情還是很沉重國民黨提出這個案子會造成什麼樣的影響我相信中國國民黨在場的委員我就不談民眾黨了你們有幾個人看過條文你們如果仔細去看的話你會發現這個條文多不合理三個條文而已"},{"start":38.208,"end":57.329,"text":"32條裡面他所講的第一個我們產生了爭議說你把他定性成變成是立法委員的補助費這第一個社會華藍會認為你是要除罪話任何有一點點常識的人稍微感覺一下就知道這個法案不尋常第二個"},{"start":58.39,"end":75.423,"text":"你再去把它看看你所在32條你這第三項裡面所提到的是說按照每一位立法委員每年稅費的五倍的公費為什麼是五倍你為什麼不加一個五倍為上限"},{"start":77.196,"end":94.251,"text":"你為什麼要預留一個國會議員可以去用人頭可以去用虛報來把這些該屬於公費助理該屬於人民的納稅錢的人民的名字名單把它讓立法委員放到口袋裡面去加幾個字就可以了33條是一樣啊"},{"start":99.022,"end":115.947,"text":"我看國民黨上來以後你們認為好像是這一次我當助理爭取到好多的福利你們想為這個法案來賺一點政治上的紅利門都沒有為什麼從陳玉珍的版本要把他除作話"},{"start":117.383,"end":137.847,"text":"到社會荒涼你們恐慌了以後你們敬負惡毒提出這樣的一個修正案你們本來是要到監獄裡面去截球被逮到了社會大眾說國民黨他們要去截球要去除酒了你們馬上穿上聖誕老公公的衣服說不是我們是聖誕節來發餅乾你們這種心態社會大眾怎麼會不知道"},{"start":148.442,"end":160.429,"text":"如果說你們真的是為助理好朝野協商我就跟你們講啦加幾個字啊不可以虛用人頭啊不可以虛報啊加幾個字民進黨馬上簽字你們不敢啊為什麼不敢這個案子通過沒完沒了到了法院以後全部都是爭議"},{"start":177.093,"end":192.676,"text":"每一位打官司的人都跟你講立法院已經通過了那是屬於立法委員的實質補助啊那是我的實質薪資的一範圍一部分啊為什麼我們立個法我們先給你示警你們全部都不聽你們還用偷渡金服惡毒的方法"}]}},{"id":"167402","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167402","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a9768d606976c61682bf610852d0c756f8f26991ee6310b0abec47a71c4ccfca2305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"20:36:19 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越講越多錯第一個 講到淨富二讀這件事情我們民進黨是有版本的就跟你們之前國會改革一樣把我們的版本全部都丟包再來你說跟助理工會討論助理工會的參與率 助理工會現在有辦法依照現在的參與率去代表所有的助理嗎"},{"start":32.56,"end":51.269,"text":"所以這個狀況就是你現在越上來講就越讓大家知道這個程序有多麼不合理我那天問立法院說如果按照這樣修的話要增加多少的支出?出估大概六億請問六億的費用直接進負惡毒是合理嗎?"},{"start":52.259,"end":77.251,"text":"這不需要在委員會好好討論嗎你丟幫我們的法案 丟幫我們的預算 丟幫我們任何的改革然後號稱說在幫助我們 其實根本就不是你們只不過是為了自己 只不過是為了圖利 只不過是為了除罪化而這些程序完全夫之缺乳要是今天有在委員會好好討論的話到底哪一些補助 然後最後從哪一些預算來指引這不是清清楚楚嗎"},{"start":78.331,"end":100.202,"text":"再來剛剛還提到協商很不好意思協商我都有參加我協商所提出來的問題大概也都提過我協商所提出來的意見你們一次都沒有採納我再講一次你剛剛說這個就是按照現行的法制來編列好那為什麼你要把那個依照立法院編列直接要把它改成補助費呢你不用改啊"},{"start":100.962,"end":125.325,"text":"如果就是按照現行法是你幹嘛要改那個文字為什麼要提新的修法理由這就是給法院武器嘛就是給他新的解釋嘛而且我再說一次按照你講的如果今天就是為了助理就是為了增加大家的福利那很簡單因為現在國人有疑慮認為說你在幫這一個所謂的虛報還有所謂的回捐在除罪化你只要加一句話就好"},{"start":126.786,"end":144.103,"text":"說只要未來有這個所謂的虛報的有所謂人頭助理的有所謂回捐的仍然回歸貪污條例仍然回歸刑法的使公務員登載不實這樣不就結束了嗎這樣我們今天就不要浪費時間耶加幾個字就好啦"},{"start":144.864,"end":173.948,"text":"你只要告訴大家本來說是違法的那個繼續就是違法我們國民黨不會為違法背書就那幾個字今天大家鼓掌通過說我們要幫這個所謂的助理來增加福利不就解決了嗎我在協商提了多少次一次都沒有回應我剛剛在32條第一個發言也講過也一樣沒有回應為什麼不敢寫嘛連今天說一件事情是違法都不敢寫那你不就是在為違法富豪嗎"},{"start":175.168,"end":187.302,"text":"所以拜託國人不要再被他們騙了從頭到尾就像剛剛逸川委員講的就是透過修法理由要給法院一個武器讓他們有一個新的解釋方式實時達到除罪化 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我給大家看看"},{"start":38.851,"end":55.567,"text":"第十一屆第一會期我們立法院通過的叫做地方民意代表知己條例那時候我們大家都非常高興為什麼因為我們幫地方的縣市議員的助理大幅的加薪我們幫村里長爭取了年終獎金等等的待遇"},{"start":56.598,"end":75.54,"text":"大家不要忘記了當初的明代知己條例是有行政院院版我今天就把它大圖輸出給大家看行政院版第六條的修正條文說直轄市議會縣市議會得編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理我還沒說完"},{"start":76.101,"end":99.735,"text":"立法說明更加殘暴他說為補助議員聘僱專職助理履行議員職權定名各議會得編列助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理又為彰顯費用屬補助性質刪除公費二字行政院提出來的明代知己條例就明列"},{"start":101.062,"end":101.803,"text":"這樣子的一個說法當初"},{"start":126.978,"end":144.909,"text":"當初這個法條在修正的時候順利的通過為什麼我給大家上上課因為討論明代知己條例的時候大家都知道法案的重點在幫議員助理加薪所以這一條是無異議通過"},{"start":145.689,"end":156.239,"text":"如果你們今天說盤的補助性質就是除罪那在座的各位通通是共犯一個也別想跑也不要在那邊假請刀"},{"start":158.513,"end":177.633,"text":"再來 這個是行政院主計總署的各個預算之用的說明這個說明談到民意代表的補助的時候民意代表待遇說凡民意代表的稅費 公費 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剛才這個國民黨第一位委員 阿凱阿 阿凱阿 今天說什麼民進黨沒版本 你就是都沒來開會 洪孟愷你就是沒來開會今年12月 許智傑啊 拿一個叫立法委員公會助理任用法"},{"start":20.782,"end":49.498,"text":"一般司法法治委員會有開會啦 人家都有討論過 那是你沒來 還要還要更認真咧趴下趴下 還沒中情 這種東西我市長講就好 你敢不敢你就站在旁邊 不能講 趕緊講趕緊鬧起第二 這個國民黨想說我要從這條民眾黨來跟你們鬥三天你們不知道你們去給民眾黨排到柴田要走哪裡啊民眾黨的這個修正版本啊"},{"start":50.917,"end":63.666,"text":"那個說明欄為什麼這麼多情策呢?這領光發光要用的時候要看民眾黨修正版本的說明欄我現在在告訴你們幾件事?從26年起我們改這個說明欄,不然你叫民眾黨改說明欄他怎麼說呢?他說這因為單獨增加報酬後待遇"},{"start":70.51,"end":82.663,"text":"所以要次階開會實施第32條第二項規定其性質為立法委員不是會讓人屬立法委員待遇調整之範疇"},{"start":84.747,"end":111.307,"text":"屬於立法委員待遇調整之範疇民眾黨跟國民黨說說這條不是怎麼處理啦這條是立法委員的待遇啦待遇喔 說得簡單的叫做心碎啦立法委員要自衛的調心碎民眾黨的意思是說 啊如果要自己調心碎 要在後一階開始民眾黨定義非常的清楚"},{"start":112.287,"end":139.117,"text":"所以後面,如果法官要引用立法院引用陶晋的,要用後面的說明欄這立法院討論的規定,都要成為法官的心臟你千勝萬勝,不算就說民眾黨六個今天要離開,最好把你寵一條寵完,整個都結尾了如果是在立法院看到,我看你現在在看文章看到,請你注意,民眾黨大寵一條,寵到你海底要走過去"},{"start":142.679,"end":143.805,"text":"好 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全院的同仁駐宅法要進步的力量大家都要我們在委員會將近30條的法案的修正案我們一個一個一個討論討論到剩下兩個我在這邊必須要講一句話不要眺望天邊的彩虹然後啊 踩壞眼前的玫瑰我為什麼要這樣子說呢"},{"start":46.079,"end":71.265,"text":"進步大家都要但我們剩下保留的47條跟52條第47條他要求我們未來所有的申報要以每坪來計算這會造成兩個後果一個填寫不容易另外一個租金會上漲為什麼要這樣說"},{"start":73.268,"end":99.969,"text":"很多人舉很多外國的例子但舉的例子都是時評制的國家如果今天這個法案在商辦商業辦公大樓我百分之百支持但台灣的租屋條件不一樣記得我從南部來台北的時候我租的房子是跟房東住在一起房東就一間房子租給我"},{"start":101.004,"end":120.86,"text":"那到底算幾坪房東也不知道我們也不知道那我們現在的租屋市場有雅房有套房有整層的如果你是整層出租我覺得還可以核實的去填寫如果你是租雅房你是租套房"},{"start":121.929,"end":150.258,"text":"房東如果給你的是實際的坪數還是群狀的坪數這到時候誤差會非常的大那如果大家都停寫的是我實際套房的坪數我跟你講未來會造成租金大幅的上漲對租客族是非常非常的不利的所以這一點我們沒有說不修改我們只是說不要到每坪計"},{"start":151.817,"end":174.242,"text":"你可以我現在的租屋我雅房多少我套房多少我們先這樣填寫我們一步不能賣得太快不然會造成租金的上漲先學會跑再來跳再來52條一直說要給房東更多的補助跟修繕不得低於2.5倍"},{"start":176.087,"end":199.337,"text":"我相信如果常常租過房子的人就知道如果我房子沒有壞我最討厭我最不喜歡我的屋主來找我說他要幹嘛幹嘛未來如果每年要請這筆修繕我們的租客每天每年一定要讓房東進來修房子進來敲敲打打這是我們不樂意所見的啊好 謝謝張宏祿委員的發言"},{"start":205.293,"end":215.682,"text":"接下來我們請劉許庭委員請發言謝謝主席 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各位同仁 各位媒體先進大家早安 大家好第四會期即將進入尾聲本期今天站在這裡替全民說句公道話共同檢視過去最短時間民進黨執政的種種"},{"start":20.259,"end":43.035,"text":"政府一旦宣稱政績亮眼,但人民真正感受的是物價上漲,工作不穩,以及對未來的越來越深的不安。在對外經貿方面,台美關稅雖然取得了15%的稅率,這固然是外交上的進展,但背後承諾的5000億美元投資與信用保證貸款,"},{"start":44.591,"end":71.533,"text":"其财政风险与资源排挤效益政府必须诚实面对本席担忧单半导体产业成为谈判主轴时弱势的农业产业是否会变成遗忘的牺牲品当股市因台积电大涨而欢欣鼓舞时那没有钱买股票每天为生计奔波的基层劳工他们的就业机会与消费能力是否得到了应有的保障"},{"start":72.293,"end":97.092,"text":"政府在宣揚勝利之餘更應該思考如何落實分配正義政府不能只看數字不看人民只顧對外表態卻忘了對內交代請政府記得莫忘世上苦人多對內治理的失衡同樣令人震驚打詐國家隊編列了巨額的預算但卻民眾卻對打詐的成效無感"},{"start":97.984,"end":116.36,"text":"各式的詐騙案件也層出不窮低限執法人員的權益被迫犧牲司法體系也被爆量的詐欺案件給壓垮高院甚至被迫停分案來止血此外更令人擔憂的是憲政體制的崩解與司法工具被法治化"},{"start":129.028,"end":139.996,"text":"大法官的提名人选的适格性也饱受争议宪法法庭更在未达法定人数下做成裁判让司法这道防线产生裂痕"},{"start":140.731,"end":169.462,"text":"以及各项独立机关的人事延宕,更让国家体制陷入权力真空的状态。错误的政策比贪污更可怕,请民进党政府尽速补足各独立机关与大法官的事格人选,停止对宪政体制的消极伤害。建议代总统恪守宪法并依法编列预算,也停止对台湾人才跟资金的豪赌,"},{"start":170.65,"end":181.944,"text":"更應該在台美關稅裁判中確實保護本土的各項產業以民為念給全民一個更穩定親民及守法的法治社會謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167348","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167348","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a97a020dd5d5b70b4d9f610852d0c756f8f2ad631610b119388f30caff4e49f2b215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:03:55 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六百萬還是七百萬的所謂補助費用到底現場哪一個人算得出來牛許廷的條款是包山包海的 腐爛的將立法院對於助理的各類補助費用都視同於對立委個人的補助"},{"start":118.257,"end":134.099,"text":"美其名的要給助理專業加擠資深加擠甚至連文康健檢費連在職進修撫慰金全部都變成立法院給予立委個人的補助費用"},{"start":135.521,"end":152.852,"text":"包山包海不一而足這個條文通過之後我要問問在場的韓國瑜院長周萬來秘書長你們誰可以算出來未來一年進入每一個立委的所謂補助費用是600萬是700萬是750萬誰算得出來"},{"start":157.455,"end":177.687,"text":"如此粗糙不翼而決自肥圖利自家的立委更要為自己涉及泰汙的立委來脫罪粗糙無比再一次的突襲修法韓院長訂最好的料理沒有人吞了下好謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員發言郭玉琴委員請準備"}]}},{"id":"167365","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167365","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a976ff0d304955e63eff610852d0c756f8fa4e4e6542f705ec073d84130179852065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"17:40:35 - 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我想從這個一路以來我們都非常清楚可以看見國民黨不僅是從黨產裡面要搶400億回到自己的口袋裡從國家搶400億回到自己的口袋裡那現在這一路搶錢還要搶到他們身邊的助理費"},{"start":29.156,"end":56.307,"text":"我們立法院的助理我們所有政治人物的助理他們都是辛辛苦苦在幫我們查詢法案在幫我們做許多的選民服務可是他們的所作所為在他們的老闆眼中在國民黨的眼中在民眾的眼中都只是免洗筷用完就丟所以即便是國民黨的助理也好或者是民眾黨的助理也好大家站出來"},{"start":57.828,"end":72.546,"text":"抗議他們依然不為所動那甚至我們想最近大家也可以看到民眾黨接連的一些案例從高鴻安到劉淑冰甚至不讓他的助理來簽這一個連署的抗議"},{"start":74.195,"end":94.083,"text":"而這次的修法不管是陳昀臻也好 劉許廷也好都只是接棒把這個法案寫得好像是更華麗讓他好像是讓我們的助理可以得到更好的照顧可是事實上完全不是因為在我們的現行的立法院的組織法上面明確寫著這筆錢"},{"start":96.164,"end":122.925,"text":"是要由立法院支應給公費助理的薪資而不是給立法委員的補助我們是這樣子寫的但是他們現在的修法呢這已經是把它寫到就是說這是一個補助費補助 那補助代表什麼意思補助就代表是說立法委員可以決定他到底要不要給他的助理"},{"start":124.899,"end":149.117,"text":"這個法案的修法其實是讓所有的薪資過去是由立法院支付然後來保障這次助理的薪資的部分全部回到國民黨自己的委員手上來決定所以他到底要給他多少完全不知道完全是看老闆今天心情好不好我想這也是完全的違反所謂的勞權"},{"start":151.209,"end":169.384,"text":"因為一直以來我們都非常的強調所謂的勞權的概念但是我想還有幾點就是說它在這個裡面雖然薪資上面寫得很漂亮我簡單唸給大家聽就是每一個立法委員每年的稅費5倍之公費助理工資集一"},{"start":171.506,"end":190.077,"text":"勞動法令的規定應由雇主負擔之相關費用但是我想許多人的見解不管是我們的民進黨的委員或是在民進黨的見解都說這是看得到領不到的一個條文所以我希望今天所有的人民還有我們所有的助理都要出來抗議這一個法案 謝謝"},{"start":191.121,"end":208.847,"text":"好 謝謝張雅琳委員的發言抱怨會 我們可能會要用餐現在訂便當來不及所以我們就訂麥當勞跟披薩好不好好 我們就等一下晚上我們就吃漢堡跟披薩好 我們現在請總務部門立刻開始去訂我們接下來請吳思瑤委員請發言"},{"start":217.854,"end":220.599,"text":"謝謝院長永遠關心我們下一餐"}]}},{"id":"167364","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167364","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a9772fc0dc36240cc79f610852d0c756f8fa4e4e6542f705ec0d60c73881cc9b1c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"17:37:06 - 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都不會有犯罪的認定啊這個就是這個法案最主要的陽謀那我必須要說呢我們在協商的過程呢國民黨不斷的說這個就是為了助理好啊讓他們有更多的家籍啊"},{"start":125.956,"end":146.164,"text":"就算我們用最好心的狀態去判斷國民黨委員的內心其實要解決這個爭議非常簡單直接一個修正動議直接就寫在法條上面說即使現在法條修成這個樣子但如果你今天是虛報人頭你今天如果是叫助理繳回"},{"start":147.384,"end":166.424,"text":"如果你今天有這些狀況仍舊回歸貪污治罪條例處理仍舊回歸刑法公務員登載不實公務員登載不實罪處理如果能夠把這個定在那邊那簡單啊那因為就表示你已經表達這個立場這根本就不是為了助理費的除罪話這樣不就解決了嗎"},{"start":167.27,"end":193.842,"text":"但是從協商開始一直到現在我提出這樣的意見沒有得到任何的回應沒有人敢把侵占助理費事犯罪寫在法條上面連這件事情都不敢那很明顯這個法條這一個修法是為了什麼我認為是昭然若揭謝謝謝謝沈伯陽委員的發言接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員發言莊瑞雄委員發言莊瑞雄"}]}},{"id":"167362","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167362","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a97ed0cc59f6cac4dfdf610852d0c756f8fa4e4e6542f705ec09af2e74e98a9ffb35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"16:36:24 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剷除異己的張手今天為廣法的修正標示的就是我們捍衛新聞自由的決心十年政績忙忙忙 打壓新聞就是民進黨"},{"start":30.438,"end":45.048,"text":"在這次我們修法當中我們開宗明義就先把憲法當中捍衛新聞自由作為衛廣法的一個立法目的直接將捍衛新聞自由入法"},{"start":46.072,"end":73.377,"text":"更重要的是過去NCC成為民進黨御用東廠找盡各種理由來去壓制言論來去關新聞台的這件事情這一次我們在衛廣法修正當中也特別的來去嚴加的限制今天民進黨濫用NCC來去關新聞台"},{"start":74.517,"end":101.39,"text":"我要回溯台灣民主發展的歷程今天民進黨在過去十年執政最大的成就就是關新聞台民進黨一天到晚把鄭南榮放在嘴上百分之百的言論自由但是只要你敢今天對執政者的異議對執政者監督 對執政者批判"},{"start":102.31,"end":115.997,"text":"我告訴你NCC就會出動這NCC荒謬到什麼程度他今天違法 濫權 毀憲 亂政關掉新聞台結果呢用的理由"},{"start":117.335,"end":135.198,"text":"都被法院打臉一而再 三而四的敗訴創下有史以來訴訟費用最高的NCC敗訴連連因為連法院都不能認同NCC這種違法亂證所以民進黨在胡扯什麼啊"},{"start":136.325,"end":152.247,"text":"你今天看看我們未管法修正很簡單我們要求今天如果說今天NCC做出撤銷新聞台的處分法院一旦判決NCC判敗"},{"start":153.749,"end":176.007,"text":"NCC負擔回復頻道的責任 這有什麼不對法院如果打臉NCC 難道NCC不該修正他的錯誤嗎結果民進黨上綱到什麼地方 又是紅媒 又是什麼恢復中天新聞台 我還是問一句話啊中天新聞台或任何媒體今天觸犯國安法 你用國安法辦它"},{"start":177.088,"end":187.024,"text":"但是有嗎 沒有因為沒有辦法用國安法辦就用你的NCC東廠來辦新聞自由從今天開始謝謝大家 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謝謝主席今天是這個會期的最後一天那但是呢除了住宅法之外沒有通過任何的這一個服國立民的一些法案我看了這一個剛開始通過這個黨產付幣的條案然後呢要通過這個中天赴台的這一個條案然後現在呢又要審查這個助理費要把它除罪化的一個法案那我是覺得說在這個會期的最後一天其實真的"},{"start":34.401,"end":41.296,"text":"要留給我們的民眾一個好的印象不要讓民眾認為說這個立法委員在自肥自己"},{"start":42.429,"end":69.266,"text":"我現在手上呢只有一個牛許廷的法案但我也不確定說這是不是一個最後的一個法案那搞不好等一下要表決的時候桌上呢就突然出現了修正動議再修正動議會修正怎麼樣我們也不知道不過這也是立法院的一個日常了每次要到投票之前我們才知道等一下我們要投票的到底是什麼樣的一個法案我看了一下牛許廷的這個法案齁"},{"start":70.026,"end":79.527,"text":"最大問題就是在於說他把這個助理的費用變成立委的補助費用那剛剛我們很多同仁講過啦那這個"},{"start":80.936,"end":107.272,"text":"你要來增加我們助理的福利跟他的待遇我覺得都沒有什麼問題但是就在現有的現行條文下面做修改就好了但是一個最大的一個區別牛許廷跟一個現行的條文最大的區別就是在於說他把這一個助理費用變成立法委員的補助費用好啦 立法委員的補助費用那請問怎麼用 怎麼核銷 怎麼規範用不完了怎麼辦"},{"start":110.854,"end":135.285,"text":"是不是就跑到了立法委員的口袋裡面是不是就變成這樣子 那你說要助理費跑到這個立法委員自己的口袋裡面那不是就犯法嗎 貪污自罪條例啊很多國民黨立委就這樣被抓了啊如果按照劉許廷的版本 不會因為這個是立委自己的補助費用如果是自己的錢 怎麼算是貪污呢"},{"start":136.513,"end":160.356,"text":"那所以呢 這個版本完全沒有交代這筆錢除了給助理 啊他列了很多好像說對助理很好 這個助理這個資深的也有加擠 專業的也有加擠再次進修的費用什麼等等這些都有出但是呢 如果沒有用咧 如果沒有用咧這筆錢到底最後是跑去哪裡咧回到國庫嗎"},{"start":162.352,"end":190.053,"text":"沒有 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全部進到立委的身上立委決定要用多少第一款裡面寫到的辦公室費用他要用多少在辦公室費用 他決定他要用多少給助理 他決定助理的制度將全面被破壞未來我們將很難吸引到優秀的人才在立法院裡面來成為助理當然我們就難以讓這些優秀人才進入到政治裡面"},{"start":139.542,"end":164.992,"text":"而成為未來有機會的國家的優秀的政治人才這將是台灣助理制度的一個崩壞國會助理制度的一個大崩壞同時間也是台灣民主制度的一個大崩壞所以我們再次強烈的譴責這樣的提案這是假幫助助理之民事實在破壞助理甚至在危害整個助理制度的一個知識所以我們再次呼籲藍白立委懸崖勒馬"},{"start":165.652,"end":183.687,"text":"不要傷害好不容易台灣民主制度建立起來的一個很好的國會助理制度這些公費助理都是讓台灣民主向前走的關鍵力量如果破壞掉了將會影響到台灣的自由民主制度你們也將會成為歷史上的罪人我們再次呼籲藍白懸崖勒馬"}]}},{"id":"167381","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167381","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a971ff9ce9ecf6a1c4cf610852d0c756f8fa4e4e6542f705ec092d0a82c07ca83cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"18:35:53 - 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胞首先我要感謝我的助理們在我過去這兩年進入到國會感謝他們的幫助讓我在擔任這個委員的期間可以把我的表現讓其他關心的人都能夠得到肯定"},{"start":29.656,"end":51.188,"text":"那今天呢我們國民黨的黨團將立法組織法要修正案的部分要淨附二讀並且試圖在預算會期的最後一天強行闖關剛剛很多人都很多委員都表達了這個起起不可的這個想法那民進黨團的同仁口口聲聲說為了要增加這個"},{"start":52.185,"end":70.362,"text":"助理的福利可是我們擔心的社會所看到的可能是他們要將助理費變成立委補助費這是大家共同擔心的部分這不只是名詞的改變這是法律定性的失守"},{"start":71.564,"end":91.553,"text":"一旦變成了補助費就代表助理費不是助理費而是立委的補助費這不是自肥那什麼才叫做自肥這個就是社會大家共同擔心的部分那為什麼要在這個時機點這個會期的最後一天要如此倉促如此野蠻的來強行表決通過呢"},{"start":95.131,"end":115.871,"text":"大家所設定的可能原因第一就是為了要特定人的脫罪路徑這部分我們剛剛很多委員都有表達同樣的意見第二個是對老犬的一個假性的關懷國民黨的同仁說要提高助理的待遇可是卻拒絕公開助理的名冊"},{"start":116.826,"end":145.108,"text":"拒絕薪資的透明沒有透明的監督那這些錢最後到底是進了基層助理的口袋呢還是社會關心的進了立委的口袋沒有人知道所以助理乍領助理費的事件一再的發生應該被檢討的是個別的民代而不是整個公費助理的制度那公費助理的公費這兩個字強調的就是由國家來保障國會助理的專業與權益"},{"start":147.589,"end":167.56,"text":"國會助理會本來就應該是公開的公農而不是看不見的小金庫今天我真的希望能夠請所有的委員們共同的來清楚的表示今天國民黨這樣的提案真的是一個倒退就是在幫助特定人開後門"},{"start":168.888,"end":184.682,"text":"我要很嚴正的希望我們國民黨的同仁立刻要撤回這樣的修法的版本不要把國會助理打回稱為私房的工具人讓我們一起來守住國會的專業也守住民主的底線謝謝大家 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各位立委同仁其實我現在站在這邊發言我心情很沉重我覺得說在這邊我要為我的助理為各位辛苦的助理跟大家一起打拼的助理們發言發聲我的心情是很重很沉痛的"},{"start":21.383,"end":35.358,"text":"我們立院組織法第32條有規定立法委員的助理費是由立法院編列一期勞基法所規定的相關費用是編列了立委的薪資"},{"start":36.819,"end":50.615,"text":"劉許廷委員的這個版本看起來好像提升了很多的福利裡面洋洋灑灑的列了十多種加緊與補助但是他都不是助理薪水他叫做立法委員補助費用"},{"start":52.617,"end":80.489,"text":"他都不是助理能領到的薪水他是立法委員補助費牛許廷委員這個版本雖然看起來好像是提升的福利但其實是包裹著私心的糖衣沒有在根本上來解決公費助理這個法制化的問題尤其這個版本其實是國民黨他們為了挽回這個這段時間持續被社會所抨擊的緩兵之際"},{"start":82.27,"end":104.303,"text":"去年的12月陈玉珍提出的这公费助理费直接拨于立委作为统筹通用运用的时候那个时候大家为了他的棉检据核销这个部分呢我想不只是助理不只是我们真心对待助理的委员们还有社会大众都非常不能接受"},{"start":105.183,"end":133.922,"text":"導致當時很多公會助理都群起反對甚至必須為了捍衛自己的權益在立法院的門口抗爭要求陳玉珍委員一定要撤案民進黨團也為了保障助理的權益因此也提出復議後來陳玉珍委員說邀請助理公會來討論條文當時所參與討論的助理公會是不是真的代表所有助理的聲音是很有疑問的"},{"start":135.283,"end":158.758,"text":"而且也沒有跟工會助理們妥善的來溝通那今天牛許廷委員的這個版本也沒有在委員會經過討論是淨富惡毒在昨天跟今天的這個協商是根本是過水過個形式你們就要倉促的處理幾百位助理工會重大權益這個法案真的對助理們非常的不公平"},{"start":159.478,"end":188.177,"text":"请国民党民众党的委员们看看你们身后支持你们的助理他们到现在都还在办公室待命你们到几点他们就到几点他们都比你早到比你晚走你们这样的所作所为对得起他们的付出吗不要为了立委自己的私心来仓促修法来损害到我们助理的权益助理们绝对值得更好的对待更多的尊重不要用这么粗心"}]}},{"id":"167377","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167377","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a970f4a94a5be8a52adf610852d0c756f8fa4e4e6542f705ec08b5c004b5ca1c9ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"18:21:43 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今天是1月30號這個會期的最後一天那在去年度的這個會期 研會的時候這個時間可能到更晚的時間我們正在做表決大賽 挑燈夜戰為了去年度的預算 正在努力國民黨跟民眾黨在去年的這個時候上演的是比賽刪除預算 比賽凍結預算"},{"start":35.385,"end":45.825,"text":"那今天國民黨跟民眾黨他在給台灣民眾上演的是什麼第一個他們要表決通過衛星廣播電視法他們會為中天電視台開後門"},{"start":47.847,"end":74.884,"text":"第二個他們剛剛修正不當黨產條例自己講說不當條例我也認為是不當條例把舊國團他在做的公益講成我在做公益我就可以侵占這個建物我在做公益我在辦活動有人參加過這個活動我就可以合法佔有這個國家的土地國家的建物這樣子包裝"},{"start":75.945,"end":103.413,"text":"那現在在修什麼現在其實是為了幫某些委員來託罪託什麼罪託助理費不當使用的罪好現行條文是什麼現行條文的助理費是由立法院編列預算編列預算代表這是國家的他要改成什麼他要改成補助立委的費用也就是說助理們不要被騙了"},{"start":104.748,"end":129.319,"text":"寫得再好聽你有再多的家籍你有可能都領不到為什麼因為這會變成是補助性質看你老闆要不要領我們背後一大群優秀的助理們這幾年來都直接收到立法院的薪資是國家的預算走路有方"},{"start":130.607,"end":150.63,"text":"從今天這個修法如果通過以後叫做補助立委就是看你老闆看你的委員他要不要給你這個補助你說你碩士畢業 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發錢有差嗎 有差 差異非常大最高法院長期以來的穩定見解助理費就是國家編列給立委 聘用助理的專款這一筆錢不是立委的薪水 更不是立委的私房錢如果你將這筆錢挪作他用 就是貪污 就是詐領"},{"start":157.282,"end":177.709,"text":"然而藍白陣營這次的修法企圖透過立法院貸給己付以及交費用轉為立委薪資的一部分徹底顛覆了這個法律邏輯一旦這個法案通過這筆錢的法律屬性變得模糊就真的變成立委的實際補助所以"},{"start":178.729,"end":189.859,"text":"本人在這裡代表本辦公室的立委以及所有立法院辦公室的助理以及代表所有的同仁助理們請你們高抬貴手"}]}},{"id":"167374","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167374","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a97218634acd72b7568f610852d0c756f8fa4e4e6542f705ec0ef5a74ead98971cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"18:11:13 - 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各位同仁 全國民眾鄉親今日藥事法及藥害救濟法修正案順利三讀讓台灣的藥品供應管理從缺藥才處理的被動模式轉型為源頭有監測 危機有調度的國家級韌性體系藥品穩定供應是醫療體系的生命線 更是國安問題"},{"start":33.613,"end":48.793,"text":"過去我們在缺藥發生後才被動處理實在是緩不及急透過要釋法的修正要求持有必要藥品許可證的藥商必須定期申報讓主管機關能夠從源頭掌握數據及早預警確保醫療前線的供應不中斷"},{"start":49.694,"end":74.19,"text":"不再讓基層醫療體系陷入孤立無援其次我們強化非常實際的資源調度能力面對傳染病或者是國際供應鏈不穩本次修法賦予政府專案核准與精準分配的權限不僅要讓藥品能夠順利進來更要確保醫療資源能夠公平分送到最需要的國人手中建構一個更具應變能力的防護網"},{"start":75.131,"end":91.272,"text":"最後為了要確保這套韌性應變的機制能更趨於完整我們同步修正了藥害救濟法將因應緊急需求而專案核准的藥品納入保障範圍完成了法制的銜接這是修法我們實踐的主動監測"},{"start":93.695,"end":107.526,"text":"精準調度權益保障的三大目標我們不僅要解決缺藥問題更要打造一個藥品供應看得到民眾用藥拿得到的強韌台灣謝謝大家也祝大家新年快樂"},{"start":122.642,"end":123.877,"text":"北院社會福利及危險環境"}]}},{"id":"167409","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167409","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a970b4b0fad20f7c329f610852d0c756f8f46b941d3c9d1fc907b98ec381cd5a4705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"21:29:04 - 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大家好我們今天完成藥事法修正了三毒我們將從近年缺藥的風險與公共衛生經驗來出發來補強我國必要藥品供應的制度韌性讓政府在面對供應風險與公共衛生挑戰時有更及時有效的因應工具"},{"start":20.652,"end":40.192,"text":"首先 加强国家对前端风险的及时掌握持有必要药品许可证的药商应该要定期向主管机关来申报药品的制造 输入及供应情形包括现有的库存 过去的每月货量以及未来供应的规划这让政府能够在药品短缺之前就提早预警"},{"start":41.013,"end":65.392,"text":"提早介入避免供应失衡演变成用药的危机另外呢针对药品供应不足的情形修法也可以强化及时调度的权限当药品总供应量不足以因应当前需求的时候主管机关可以专案申请核准来制造或输入不受既有的数量或程序的一个限制确保民众必要用药不中断"},{"start":65.972,"end":93.909,"text":"更进一步的是在紧急重大影响公共卫生事件下主管机关得救专案核准药品对其供应范围其间数量对象或方式来采取必要的限制措施兼顾药品公平分配与全国用药的可进性并扩大公共卫生事件的适用范围不再仅限于急迫性的事件而涵盖对公共卫生具有重大影响需要事前预防的风险情境"},{"start":94.509,"end":121.961,"text":"讓制度更具前瞻性這次藥事法的修正來補齊制度的空白落實事前的治理讓政府在保障用藥安全跟維護公共衛生之間有更穩健的一個法律依據行政部門能盡快的完成配套修法落實資訊的一個申報及供應的監測而立法院也將持續的監督確保法律真正成為守護民眾健康權益的後盾"},{"start":124.979,"end":129.551,"text":"謝謝林健吉委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請羅廷偉委員發言 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各位同仁事實上剛剛聽到了很多人都在講今天在處理這一個立法院的組織法那國民黨如果當作這麼重要不惜著說要延長時間最後今天開會的最後一天還要處理這一個到底在急什麼"},{"start":35.332,"end":56.508,"text":"如果像劉雪芹的版本說你為了要增加這些立委的福利要增加然後再去藏了一個叫做把它改成補助費用那你就同意嘛你們再提一個修正案的一個版本把這個補助費用拿掉回到過去的就是依法實質編列然後這些費用基本上就由立法院來支應這樣就沒問題啦"},{"start":58.79,"end":83.275,"text":"你們現在就提這個修正同意,那我想可能等一下也不用大家這樣發言這個事情就好了,要不要做?你們這樣修正同意就好了,為什麼?你們就一定要在這個法案,然後說這個叫做立法委員的補助費用補助費用意思是什麼?就是動作這個地方整體薪資大水庫的一部分嘛"},{"start":84.38,"end":105.028,"text":"那你們要這樣用的一個結果 你們的目的是什麼就是未來的柏瓜系的時候 你就可以順勢的在訴訟的過程中去主張你看現在立法院已經有新的一個定義這個名詞定義咧 未來的給助理的這一些的從薪水啦 什麼專業家籍資深家籍 你再考慮一下"},{"start":106.228,"end":123.537,"text":"這個都是立法委員的補助費用啊既然這是立法委員的補助費用 意思這就是給立委的啊就是給立委的可以自己運用的啊這次我稍微去補運用去這樣立委我自己的補助我都稍微去補運用這樣我還可以負責自己的錢"},{"start":125.129,"end":153.818,"text":"這樣就沒有啊這樣你就達到你的目的啦在訴訟上達到除罪的效果嘛所以這個大家都清楚的事情那劉雪芹等一下你要上海講你同不同意就是在這裡你把補助費用這個文字拿掉拿掉之後我想接下來要討論增加我們助理的待遇哇大家很高興我們現在用暗示的時間來討論要怎麼增加助理的待遇我覺得這個是值得的"},{"start":155.558,"end":166.144,"text":"我們今天來的武漢戰爭也可以 但是你實際上 你這叫做暗度層倉捏原有道理 你暗度層倉捏 牛水婷 你這樣武 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也是可以來討論那我們就想問如果真的如此的話那請問一下民進黨委員你們的版本在哪裡"},{"start":48.206,"end":73.295,"text":"我們現在討論那麼久到目前為止希望能夠讓立法品質提升希望能夠增加我們助理的待遇那我們就大家一起共同來坐下來好好研議啊剛剛一直在講是說如果你們可以把補助兩次拿掉的話那我們可以來充分溝通啊那我請教民進黨委員那何不提出你們的版本呢"},{"start":74.215,"end":84.566,"text":"再來我想請現在在現場持續看直播的助理們好好的理解到底今天是誰在支持我們助理的"},{"start":85.546,"end":106.855,"text":"待遇能夠提升而誰又再是一味的直接反對如果說真的那麼重視我們每一位助理同仁大家辛苦的付出辛苦的來給予我們共同參與立法的過程的話那過去八年民進黨全面執政民進黨國會過半的時候為什麼沒有想過要幫國會助理來增加一點點待遇呢"},{"start":108.631,"end":128.147,"text":"這才是重點我們不希望每一次討論都是口惠而實不至每一次站在這個台上都在講說我們也希望能夠共同努力但是從頭到尾沒有看到民進黨委員的版本剛剛牛許廷講得非常保守啊"},{"start":128.607,"end":138.721,"text":"因為過去到現在當民進黨全面執政國會多數的時候想要討論這一塊也被民進黨自己給阻擋下來"},{"start":140.14,"end":167.843,"text":"最後一開始有講是說不要我們有自肥所謂的自肥所以我們等一下會再討論下一個條文的時候實施日期就從第12屆立法委員就職日開始實施我們現在看到制度的不足我們現在看到制度有可以增進的地方我們來做負責任的修法讓下一屆的立法院能夠來施行何錯之有"},{"start":168.664,"end":186.531,"text":"鬼也是你神也是你什麼都要你們在講拜託行行好當助理同仁陪同我們一起來開會的時候到底是誰在增加助理的權益而誰又在阻擋請各位助理同仁好好的睜大雙眼看清楚謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167387","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167387","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a9736cee9f3ac244b07f610852d0c756f8fe539e96f01dfc00974376f4625cb93f75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"19:10:04 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各位委員尊重發言委員的權益好嗎 請保持肅靜黃秀芳委員請發言"},{"start":19.612,"end":34.908,"text":"謝謝主席還有所有的同仁今天是我們立法院這個會期的最後一天很遺憾我們現在要提的立法院組織法修正草案會影響到立法院上千位的助理的權益"},{"start":35.709,"end":56.137,"text":"我們看到國民黨提出來的立法院組織法的修正草案將公費助理工資納入立委的補助費用藍白趁今天立法院的最後一天即將要將法案闖關我相信很多我們所有委員的助理"},{"start":56.897,"end":86.118,"text":"有的應該都是看著現在立法院這個院會裡面看轉播看所有藍白委員對於這個法案你們到底是對於我們這麼辛苦的這些立法院的公費助理你們這樣子對待他們我相信很多每一位委員的不論是質詢或者是選民服務那地方的選民服務都是由這些公費立委非常辛苦的有的是代替委員"},{"start":87.118,"end":109.918,"text":"來做一些法案的處理所以我在這邊要再次的正告所有的藍白委員你們不要要將這個立法院組織法修正草案變成是一個這個除罪化那我相信這個可能也是我們立委這個通過之後立法委員自肥加薪"},{"start":110.979,"end":128.512,"text":"我覺得這是非常不應該的那另外我看到這個以後立法委員的貪污助理費會變成無罪那不只如此國民黨還要修法把可以貪的金額加高如果藍白委員不認為這個條文是除罪化的話"},{"start":129.312,"end":145.305,"text":"那麼就把侵吞助理費是違法寫在法條上國民黨民眾黨你們敢不敢請你們誠實面對人民請你們誠實面對這些為你們賣命的助理助理費這個制度原來是"},{"start":146.526,"end":164.098,"text":"為了支持民意代表推動公共事務聘僱專業人才然後採取公費支應由人民納稅所建構的民主工具那因為最近這幾年從立法院到地方的議會助理制度頻頻被濫用"},{"start":165.799,"end":180.465,"text":"民貸涉及人頭掛名或者是差額回捐福報薪資挪用公帑等手法層出不窮所以讓助理費淪為個人身材甚至貪腐的管道那"},{"start":181.065,"end":197.409,"text":"立法院所有的藍白的委員你們不去思考加強助理費的監督國民黨民眾黨反其道而行來推動民代貪污助理費除罪化這個根本就是民主支持"}]}},{"id":"167390","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167390","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a9796044ea99ea0f659f610852d0c756f8fe539e96f01dfc0093e3ed5aee600c39c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"19:20:51 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有半個提案的國民黨的委員起來發言"},{"start":29.502,"end":54.667,"text":"第三我們看一下現在待會七分鐘響鈴之後會不會他們一個一個從營業室跑出來為什麼現在不在位置上首先我告訴你第一個為什麼國民黨的委員剛剛二十人次沒有人來講而民進黨的委員每一個講的直立有聲因為民進黨委員的表現充分的建立在他們善用助理的能力身上"},{"start":55.932,"end":84.169,"text":"這個條文助理關心幫委員準備的很詳細所以每個民進黨的委員都能講出助理的心聲反過來國民黨沒有哪個你們的助理敢為你們這個條文庇護從頭到尾在我們不敢到委員會去討論只有劉許廷敢在朝野協商的時候講話其他小委員你們的助理敢幫你寫這個條文的發言稿嗎沒有"},{"start":85.069,"end":111.314,"text":"所以你們從頭到尾不敢幫你們的條文辯護第二委員說啊真相只有一個真相只要講一句但是要掩蓋真相要講一百句謊言這就是典型的掩護掩蓋真相一百句謊言的條文啊陳玉珍委員很粗暴的要說免核聚來核銷"},{"start":114.457,"end":136.779,"text":"所以呢 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各位同仁看法條不能只看一半討論到現在我深深感覺如果我們今天感謝大家剛剛多數通過了助理的專業加給等等的加薪條例因為最需要助理充能提升品質的就是民進黨黨團"},{"start":20.779,"end":31.937,"text":"剛剛蔡宇委員花了非常多的時間去解釋一大堆有的沒的但他就不看為什麼我要寫第二項第二款到第八款的補助費用由立法委員代理委員給付不就是不要變成所謂的大水庫嗎"},{"start":33.191,"end":55.678,"text":"如果不寫他就變成大水庫大水庫你也不要代理給付你也不要那你到底要什麼在修法的過程中我們跟立法院的執行單位充分溝通這一切的機制就是按照現行的機制來做運作大家合法的申報助理金額由立法院撥交給助理賬戶沒有進到立委口袋的問題"},{"start":57.118,"end":80.803,"text":"剛剛也有很多委員開始講起了歷史故事我實在忍不住 我本來不想講這一段故事的但既然都講了 我就殘忍一點吧我手邊這一份資料是立法院公報第107卷第93期委員會的紀錄所以我沒有搞錯的話 不是在第九屆就是在第十屆曾經剛剛有很多民進黨委員講說我們應該要有很好的法治化 專法我提醒各位"},{"start":81.343,"end":102.956,"text":"在當初民進黨過半的時候就有委員提出了助理的專法而且針對各項的待遇啊確實也有很多合理的提升當初助理工會是正份的但是這份資料是助理工會我去請教他的時候他提供給我的當初民進黨黨團裡面最位高權重的那個人在委員會裡面的討論是說"},{"start":105.377,"end":131.013,"text":"這些助理要為了自己的發展而努力他們來這裡不是為了賺錢所以這位位高權重的人因為在民進黨黨團啊 說話其他人不會有別的意見連立法院當初的秘書長林志嘉都說我們是不是大家可以來研究看看這位位高權重的委員說 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編寫的目的並不是要處罰編寫的目的並不是要報復編寫的目的更重要的是要讓加害者了解他在被害者身上所留下難以抹滅一輩子的傷痛這一點我們會持續努力"},{"start":1894.141,"end":1916.654,"text":"但在這件事情上面我們真的要問被害者失去了生命而加害者到現在還可以持續被教化這不是人權是虛偽這不是進步是矯情我們不希望讓世界看到以為台灣是一個殺了人之後可以不用付出相對應代價的地方"},{"start":1917.901,"end":1941.597,"text":"最後,為利用最後40秒的時間,也要再一次的向所有的委員同仁來報告。今天是我們本會期最後一天,而有六位民眾黨的委員也即將兩年條款。但我們細想,過去這兩年裡面,在野的監督制衡、專業的努力、團結一心,就可以把台灣主流民意的聲音在立法院好好彰顯。"},{"start":1942.677,"end":1970.871,"text":"感謝我們過去這六位民進黨委員跟我們一起的同事情誼我們推動吹哨子保護法我們推動外送原專法這些都是難得的成果最後藍天永恆白雲常在祝福我們監督制衡的力量絕對團結為台灣為中華民國繼續加油好謝謝洪孟愷委員的發言謝謝我們接下來請林倩琦委員發言張志倫委員請準備"},{"start":1982.83,"end":2011.358,"text":"院長、府會同仁、媒體朋友還有全國民眾大家好戰略需要備案準備經貿部署應該在大國間等距的配置全球經貿秩序正在深度產生變化本期今天要談的是台灣在這場變局中的處境與選擇在美國總統川普將關稅作為武器反覆的顛覆既有的貿易規則的此時世界並沒有完全向美國靠攏"},{"start":2012.398,"end":2026.227,"text":"反而出現值得關注的趨勢那就是部分的國家放下旗艦主動強化雙邊與區域的合作降低對單一強權的依附歐盟與南方共同市場歷經25年的談判終於簽署了FTA"},{"start":2030.009,"end":2046.885,"text":"与印度也长期在僵局之后敲定协议近年与印度关系恶化的加拿大也搁置争议重启能源与贸易的对话国际间已经清楚地意识到过度依赖单一市场已经成为国家风险"},{"start":2047.606,"end":2062.959,"text":"世界秩序正在斷裂而不是平順的轉型關稅金融供應鏈正在被強權當作施壓的工具透過團結合作自保是理性的選擇問題是台灣準備好了嗎"},{"start":2064.13,"end":2090.347,"text":"美国目前是台湾最大的出口市场这是累积的经济成果但也成为目前结构性的风险之一当全球经贸出现去单一化强化韧性的趋势如果缺乏弹性的布局风险只会持续的累积如同加拿大总理卡尼日前在世界经济论坛所说的中等强权必须合作如果你没有在谈判桌上你就会沦为别人的盘中孙"},{"start":2091.327,"end":2108.327,"text":"點出當前國際社會普遍的焦慮當全球最大經濟體的政策高度不穩定小國合作外交等據是目前國際變局中很重要的課題本席要呼籲的是友誼不應該建立在沒有備案的依賴之上"},{"start":2109.068,"end":2123.213,"text":"因此臺灣應該從三個方面來重新審視自己的角色第一臺灣應該積極參與區域跟雙邊的經貿網絡拓展非單一市場的實質合作而不是讓出口過度集中第二政府應該協助產業提供"},{"start":2124.893,"end":2139.88,"text":"供應鏈的韌性從能源原料到市場配置降低一次性的風險第三在地緣政治升溫的同時台灣應該展現更穩定更信賴的經貿角色成為合作的節點而不是被動的成壓者"},{"start":2140.7,"end":2166.992,"text":"我們應該在科技能源與高附加價值製造領域建立不可取代性世界秩序正在重組沒有人能夠置身事外台灣沒有辦法改變大國博弈但是我們可以決定有沒有足夠的選項來面對變局真正的國家安全不是依賴單一大國應該在大國之間等距的部署與各國強化雙邊關係讓台灣在任何的動盪當中都不足以"},{"start":2170.115,"end":2195.145,"text":"謝謝林倩琪委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請張志倫委員發言 蔓越真委員請準備院長 各位同仁 各位媒體先進大家早安 大家好第四會期即將進入尾聲"},{"start":2196.089,"end":2219.433,"text":"本期今天站在這裡替全民說句公道話共同檢視過去最短時間民進黨執政的種種政府一旦宣稱政績亮眼但人民真正感受的是物價上漲工作不穩以及對未來的越來越深的不安在對外經貿方面台美關稅雖然取得了15%的稅率"},{"start":2220.379,"end":2227.013,"text":"這固然是外交上的進展但背後承諾的五千億美元投資與信用保證貸款"},{"start":2228.567,"end":2255.508,"text":"其財政風險與資源排擠效益政府必須誠實面對本席擔憂單半導體產業成為談判主軸時弱勢的農漁產業是否會變成遺忘的犧牲品當股市因台積電大漲而歡欣鼓舞時那沒有錢買股票每天為生計奔波的基層勞工他們的就業機會與消費能力是否得到了應有的保障"},{"start":2256.263,"end":2281.063,"text":"政府在宣揚勝利之餘更應該思考如何落實分配正義政府不能只看數字不看人民只顧對外表態卻忘了對內交代請政府記得莫忘世上苦人多對內治理的失衡同樣令人震驚打詐國家隊編列了巨額的預算但卻民眾卻對打詐的成效無感"},{"start":2281.96,"end":2307.399,"text":"各式的詐騙案件也層出不窮,第一線執法人員的權益被迫犧牲,司法體系也被爆量的詐欺案件給壓垮,高院甚至被迫停分案來止血。此外,更令人擔憂的是,憲政體制的崩解與司法工具被法治化,在政府開創拒絕附屬的二職先例,公然藐視立法院三讀通過的法案。"},{"start":2308.106,"end":2336.087,"text":"再加上拒絕依法編列軍警銷的加薪預算大法官的提名人選的資格性也飽受爭議憲法法庭更在未達法定人數下做成裁判讓司法這道防線產生裂痕以及各項獨立機關的人事嚴當更讓國家體制陷入權力真空的狀態錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕請民進黨政府盡速"},{"start":2337.015,"end":2356.804,"text":"補足各獨立機關與大法官的事格人選停止對憲政體制的消極傷害第一代總統恪守憲法並依法編列預算也停止對台灣人才跟資金的豪賭更應該在台美關稅裁判中確實保護"},{"start":2358.618,"end":2365.93,"text":"本土的各項產業以民為念給全民一個更穩定親民及守法的法治社會謝謝"},{"start":2388.527,"end":2411.448,"text":"主席各位親愛的家人大家好今天是我最後一次站在國事論壇我不是為任何政黨發言而是為國家為人民留下這段話歷史一再證明一個國家真正的危機從來不是一見不合而是掌權的人拒絕傾聽"},{"start":2415.351,"end":2439.736,"text":"不是制度不完整而是權力駕臨制度不是人民不守法而是法律只約束人民卻約束不了執政者立法院是民意最高的殿堂也是最接近人民的地方但如果法律通過了"},{"start":2440.436,"end":2469.386,"text":"一算审查了最后执行是否全由行政者说了算那么输掉了不是朝野任一方而是人民对民主的信任这两年在立法院我最深的无力感不是我们没有讲道理而是有理说不通不是我们不愿承担而是全力"},{"start":2470.186,"end":2485.427,"text":"拒絕對等朝野裸子身輸贏最後陪葬的從來不是位子而是整個國家台灣正面臨掃紙花缺工社會結構改變的"},{"start":2487.63,"end":2510.531,"text":"長期挑戰新住民早已經是國家的一部分新住民發展署不是政治操作而是國家是否願意面對現實照顧人民的選擇今天身為新住民立法委員在國會最後的心願也是最後一次"},{"start":2511.812,"end":2533.57,"text":"誠懇呼應希望朝野放下自我各讓一步讓權力回到制度政治回到人民賴清德總統成為朝野溝通之橋創下歷史記載你是最有眼見的領航者因為"},{"start":2534.711,"end":2557.596,"text":"政治不是誰吵得最大聲而是誰在關鍵時刻選擇為國家留下團結的出口希望朝野團結一心為台灣未來更好設為共同努力的目標台灣加油 新住民加油謝謝大家"},{"start":2562.26,"end":2570.425,"text":"謝謝認真的新住民立委每人最後一次國事論壇的發言非常非常感謝接下來我們請登記最後一位陳冠廷委員請發言各位同仁大家好這個會期即將結束想藉由這個機會跟我們的鄉親朋友們"},{"start":2589.289,"end":2614.208,"text":"來報告我們這個會期推動的工作進度首先我們談農業那嘉義縣是農業大縣我們的農民朋友一輩子守護台灣那他們退休之後理論上要得到完善的基本生活保障這個會期我和蔡議員 王美惠委員共同推動的老農津貼的改革行政院已經正式接納我們的主張將老農津貼提升至一萬元"},{"start":2615.089,"end":2640.843,"text":"同時放寬排富條款讓53萬名農民受惠我們也在財化法的討論中為農業縣市大聲疾呼主張土地面積的權重應該從10%提高到30%農牧幼弟給予1.5倍的加權我們希望讓長期守護國土的農民不會再淪為財政的次等公民再談我們嘉義特別是我們的民雄"},{"start":2642.148,"end":2658.381,"text":"我們無人機跟航太產業在這個會期我已經接了至少有十數個訪團來到我們嘉義來到我們的民雄我讓我們的國際夥伴知道我們嘉義有民雄航太園區讓世界知道嘉義正在從農業大線轉成科技大線"},{"start":2660.956,"end":2680.954,"text":"民修廊它在園區未來將會容納數百個企業進駐它會成為研發 製造 測試 維修的完整巨龍無人機不只是國防戰力它也可以應用在消防救災可以應用在精準農業讓青年願意回來 產業願意進駐讓世界願意跟我們合作這就是我們現在在做的事情"},{"start":2682.18,"end":2691.066,"text":"將來是農業大線未來是農業科技大線除此之外我們要知道沒有人就沒有產業我們接著談教育"},{"start":2692.028,"end":2711.459,"text":"我很清楚第一線教育人員的辛苦不管是中小學還是幼兒園的教保夥伴我們更知道隨著時間的改變隨著技術的改變基礎教育比起高等教育更需要投入更多的心思更多的資源所以我們這個會期持續在推動行政減量也在推動職務的加急"},{"start":2712.119,"end":2725.533,"text":"很高興看到教育部的陸續回應中小學導師的職務加給從每個月三千元提高到四千元兼任跟待課的終點全面增加兩成行政工作獎金也同步到位幼兒園這邊導師職務加給"},{"start":2728.217,"end":2750.698,"text":"他的這個差額跟教保補助同樣完成修正據教師資格的教保員每個月可領四千元一般的教保員或者是助理教保員也有三千元而且都追溯到去年的九月來去生效從幼教到中小學就是遲來但是重要的一步代表政府聽見現場的聲音"},{"start":2752.299,"end":2761.963,"text":"但我跟大家報告行政減量必須同時推進產業要顧 農業要顧 教育要顧這是我這個會期的答案也是我對嘉義先生的承諾"},{"start":5355.185,"end":5382.493,"text":"好請民主黨報告出席人數報告院會出席委員75人已出法定人數好我們現在開會報告院會現在在議場二樓旁聽來自苗栗縣我們軍藝高中的同學們我們掌聲歡迎未來臺灣主人翁我們先處理朝野黨團協商結論請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":5385.785,"end":5410.197,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間115年1月28日星期三上午11時地點紅樓山林會議室決定事項一各黨團同意定於2月24日星期二舉行第11屆第五會期第一次會議並與3月3日星期二合併為一次會本會期至3月6日星期五起每週五及次週二視為一次院會"},{"start":5411.497,"end":5437.008,"text":"國事論壇及臨時提案依往例處理週五 上午9時至10時為國事論壇時間週二 下午5時至6時處理臨時提案諮詢期間週二 下午20時15分至20時30分處理臨時提案第一次會議議事日程以草案競送院會處理並不進行國事論壇及不處理臨時提案二 二月24日星期二上午10時開會"},{"start":5439.189,"end":5455.7,"text":"進行相關議程報告事項下午邀請行政院院長率同各部會首長列席進行施政方針及施政報告並被質詢報告後隨即進行政黨質詢當日質詢人數由國民黨黨團推派一人民進黨黨團推派一人台灣民眾黨黨團推派一人進行"},{"start":5459.6,"end":5483.173,"text":"質詢順序依國民黨黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團、民進黨黨團之順序輪流交叉方式進行有關質詢期間之順序及人數均依例授權依次處辦理施政方正報告委員個人質詢之登記至3月10日星期二截止3月3日星期二邀請行政院院長率同相關部會所長列席"},{"start":5483.823,"end":5512.73,"text":"提出台美關稅談判結果及其影響專案報告並備質詢質詢人數由國民黨黨團推派10人民進黨黨團推派10人台灣民眾黨黨團推派2人進行每位委員尋答時間15分鐘質詢順序依例授權議事處辦理名單請於3月2日星期一中午12時前送交議事處會診預時視同放棄4.本第五會期委員參加委員會及各委員會"},{"start":5513.55,"end":5526.959,"text":"召集委員之選舉不受本院組織法各委員會組織法及其相關授權法授權規定之限制各委員會召集委員選舉定於3月11日星期三舉行"},{"start":5527.862,"end":5552.419,"text":"其日程表如附件第五會期程序委員會議政黨比例由國民黨黨團推派9人民進黨黨團推派9人台灣民眾黨黨團推派1人代表組成名單請於3月12日星期四中午4時20分前送至議事處會診上述名單送交議事處後及不予更換主持人韓國瑜將啟程協商代表"},{"start":5553.019,"end":5577.766,"text":"副官級羅志強、林佩祥、柯憲明陳培宇、宗嘉斌、張祺凱、黃國昌、陳昭志宣讀完畢全院會對以上朝野黨團協商結論有無異議沒有異議我們就通過115年1月28日朝野黨團協商結論今決定如下一、各黨團同意定於2月24日星期二舉行第11屆"},{"start":5579.642,"end":5599.519,"text":"第五會期第一次會議並於3月3日 合併為一次會本會期自3月6日 開始每週五及次週二 視為一次院會國事論壇及臨時提案依往例處理週五上午9點至10點為國事論壇時間"},{"start":5603.781,"end":5623.137,"text":"週二下午5點至6點處理臨時提案執行時間週二下午2點15分至2點30分處理臨時提案第一次會議議事日程及草案禁送院會處理並不進行國事論壇以及不處理臨時提案"},{"start":5623.956,"end":5639.132,"text":"二 二月二十四日星期日上午十點開會進行相關議程報告事項下午邀請行政院院長率同各部會首長列席進行施政方針及施政報告並備諮詢"},{"start":5641.488,"end":5657.635,"text":"報告後隨即進行政黨質詢當日質詢人數由國民黨黨團推派一位民進黨團推派一位台灣民眾黨團推派一位進行質詢順序依照國民黨團台灣民眾黨團民進黨團的順序輪流方式進行有關質詢期間"},{"start":5666.608,"end":5680.158,"text":"至順序及人數均依例授權議事處處理施政方針報告委員個人質詢至登記至3月10日星期二截止3月3日星期二"},{"start":5680.816,"end":5704.872,"text":"邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出台美關稅談判結果及其影響專案報告並備諮詢諮詢人數由國民黨團推派10位民進黨團推派10位台灣民眾黨團推派2位進行每位委員詢答時間15分鐘諮詢順序依例授權議事處處理"},{"start":5710.117,"end":5739.2,"text":"名單請於3月2日星期一中午12點前送交議事書會診預時視同放棄4.本第五會期委員參加委員會及各委員會召集委員選舉不受本院組織法、各委員會組織法及相關授權規定之限制各委員會召集委員選舉定於3月11日星期三舉行"},{"start":5740.106,"end":5766.537,"text":"其日程表如附件五本第五會期程序委員會依政黨比例由國民黨團推派九位民進黨團推派九位台灣民眾黨團推派一位組成名單請於3月12日星期四中午12點前送至議事處會診上述名單送交議事處後即不予更換"},{"start":5767.967,"end":5797.487,"text":"另外相約會說明剛才協商第三項有關邀請行政院長就台美關稅談判專案報告應於夕英1月28日協商議題台灣民眾黨團所提一般提案所作之決定抱怨會因為本次會議的議程有待溝通請各黨團幹部現在立即到議場後方主席辦公室我們來進行溝通先來休息"},{"start":6853.68,"end":6867.674,"text":"八月會我們現在繼續開會依照黨團公示現在請各黨團幹部上午十點半至紅樓302會議室協商立法院組織法修正案協商後我們再繼續開會現在休息"},{"start":9926.257,"end":9941.517,"text":"包園會我們繼續開會因程旭文會以本次會議議事日程草案送院會處理現在由黨團依照本院議事成立對本次會議議事日程草案提出異議現在我們進行處理並截止收案包園會現在黨團共識如下一"},{"start":9942.549,"end":9964.466,"text":"議程長確認 循例一 提案先後進行處理二 本支院會早上處理至報告事項完畢後隨即進行一般提案115年度中央政府總預算案先行動之案後即休息三 散開一般提案115年度中央政府總預算案先行動之案協商後再行處理"},{"start":9966.303,"end":9987.352,"text":"4.本次院會下午2點半進行住宅法修正案衛星廣播電視法修正案政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例修正案完成立法程序之後院會及休息進行後續議程所列討論事項之溝通"},{"start":9989.341,"end":10013.488,"text":"五 上開住宅法修正案衛星廣播電視法修正案均依協商結論進行處理完成三讀之後均不再發言六 政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例修正案依協商結論進行處理我們現在進行報告事項部分請議事人宣讀黨團字體內容"},{"start":10015.7,"end":10038.76,"text":"本院民進黨黨團 針對立法院第十一屆第四會期第二十四會議議事成報告事項 質詢事項 擬請增列報告事項一案如附表是否有當進行公決本院台灣民眾黨黨團 針對第十一屆第四會期第二十四會議議成報告事項及質詢事項提議及限列議權草案所列議案及限表所列三十九案是否有當進行公決本院國民黨黨團"},{"start":10040.121,"end":10063.268,"text":"針對第十一屆第四會期第二十次會議議程報告事項及質詢事項提議僅限列議權草案所列議案及效表所列三十九案是否有道進行公決宣讀完畢幫議會我們依照先後處理各黨團提議請問院會對民進黨黨團提議通過有無異議有異議我們要進行表決現在開始按鈴七分鐘並分發表決卡"},{"start":10488.098,"end":10498.846,"text":"好報告院會現在按鈴7分鐘時間已到我們要開始進行表決請問是否每位委員都有拿到表決卡都有拿到表決卡我們開始進行表決針對民進黨提議贊成的暫停我們時間暫停"},{"start":10510.125,"end":10515.557,"text":"議場人員請把沒有拿到表決卡的趕快發到各委員手上"},{"start":10542.691,"end":10559.596,"text":"好 再次請問是否每位委員都有拿到表決卡都有拿到 我們要進行表決針對民進黨所提議的贊成請按贊成 反對請按反對現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們時間一分鐘 現在開始"},{"start":10632.899,"end":10656.833,"text":"報院會報告表決結果我們出席108位委員贊成48位反對60位贊成則少數民進黨黨團提議不通過報院會我們要進行處理台灣民眾黨團僅限列之提議因為國民黨團之提議與該黨團提議相同我們進行一併處理請問院會針對台灣民眾黨團國民黨團提議通過有無異議"},{"start":10664.022,"end":10675.449,"text":"請問院會針對台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團提議有異議有異議我們要進行表決我們現在針對台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團提議現在由民進黨團要求記名表決贊成、暗贊成、反對暗反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":10752.264,"end":10778.682,"text":"抱怨會報告表決結果出席109位委員贊成60位反對49位贊成者多數台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團提議照案通過本次會議一時之間報告事項、質詢事項照台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團提議通過抱怨會林俊憲委員發表聲明對剛才的表決與民進黨黨團意見一致我們列入公報記錄"},{"start":10781.059,"end":10803.246,"text":"我們現在進行處理討論事項部分以先後處理各黨團的提議我們現在處理民進黨黨團討論事項提供一樣請議事人員宣讀提議內容本月民進黨黨團針對歷史一屆第四會期第二十次會議議事日程討論事項禮請僅限列入表列三案是否有當進行公決宣禮完畢"},{"start":10804.873,"end":10816.144,"text":"現在針對民進黨黨現在請問議會針對民進黨黨團提議有無異議有異議進行表決我們現在針對民進黨團的提議現在有民進黨要求記名表決我們時間一分鐘贊成按贊成反對按反對現在開始"},{"start":10917.844,"end":10928.03,"text":"好 謝謝報告表決結果 謝謝謝謝 謝謝各位委員 謝謝請回我們出席109位委員贊成49位反對60位贊成者少數民進黨團體不通過我們現在進行處理台灣民眾黨團僅限列之提議"},{"start":10942.403,"end":10968.129,"text":"因為國民黨團之提議與該黨團提議相同我們一併進行處理請議事人員一併宣讀提議內容本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第四會期第二十次會議議事成討論事項提議僅限列如附表其案是否有當進行公決本院國民黨黨團針對第十一屆第四會期第二十次會議議事成討論事項提議僅限列如附表共其案是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢"},{"start":10972.626,"end":10981.53,"text":"請問院會對台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團提議有無異議有有異議我們要進行表決現在針對國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團提議現在由民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決暫時按暫時反對按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":11065.567,"end":11088.441,"text":"代議會報告表決結果出席委員109位贊成60位反對49位贊成者多數台灣民眾黨團國民黨團體我們就照案通過本次會議議事日程討論事項照台灣民眾黨團國民黨黨團體通過本次會議議事日程確定現在進行報告事項請民主黨宣讀第四會期第19次會議議事錄"},{"start":11089.844,"end":11108.144,"text":"宣讀立法院第十一屆第四會期第十九次會議釋入時間中華民國一百十五年一月二三日二七日地點本院議場出席委員陳委員陪議等一百十三年主席院長韓國瑜報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第四會期第十八次會議釋入決定確定"},{"start":11110.146,"end":11117.471,"text":"第181 184至219案其中第194案決定經貨圖並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商第214案決定經貨圖並由民進黨黨團負責召集協商第217案決定經貨圖與相關提案變案協商其一案均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會"},{"start":11134.841,"end":11142.269,"text":"第182 第183 案為社會福利及衛生環境委員會等所提出報告案主席是向甲"},{"start":11143.755,"end":11170.596,"text":"行政院打破玻璃三件以本院委員執行部分事件討論事項第一案決議交互黨團協商第二案決議協商後再行處理第三至七案均決議通過其他事項以本次會議議事熱程照台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團提議通過澳民進黨黨團國民黨黨團輪迴提議抽出建法的各一案均予以通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":11172.11,"end":11183.86,"text":"官員會針對第四會期第十九式會議議事錄邊緣委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們現在做以下決定第四會期第十九式會議議事錄確定我們現在處理針列部分請宣讀議案"},{"start":11185.116,"end":11208.261,"text":"1.委員翁曉琳等領據軍人及其家屬有單條類第十九條條文修正草案,你將會交給國防委員會審查,宣傳完畢2.委員楊崇義等領據國民年金法部分條文修正草案,你將會受惠福利基歐上環境委員會審查,宣傳完畢3.委員徐曉新等領據幼兒教育及照護法第七條條文修正草案,你將會受育及文化社會福利基歐上環境委員會審查,宣傳完畢"},{"start":11209.461,"end":11236.834,"text":"4.委員徐曉欣的理據 家庭暴力防治法第31條條文修正常案 擬交社會福利及優先環境司法及法治 兩委員會審查 宣讀外閉5.委員徐曉欣的理據 身陷障礙者權益保障法部分 兩委修正常案 擬交社會福利及優先環境委員會審查 宣讀外閉報告委員會 申列第四項第五案 現在由國民黨團體 金福二讀與相關提案並按協商 全院會有異議 面議本案金福二讀與相關提案並按協商 下議案"},{"start":11237.621,"end":11256.316,"text":"6.委員林倩琦的禮句 國家中醫研究院設施條例長恩 您交司法及法制 社會福利及衛生環境 兩委員會審查 宣言完畢報告於院會 整列報告事項第六案 有國民黨團體 金富二讀與相關提案並案協商請院會有異議 面議本案金富二讀與相關提案並案協商 下一案"},{"start":11257.157,"end":11282.995,"text":"7.委員王航維等理據政府財務法第九十八條條文修正草案,理交交通委員會審查,宣言完畢。8.委員王航維等理據中華民國刑法整理第273條是一條文草案,理交司法及法治委員會審查,宣言完畢。9.委員鄭天才等理據國民營經法部門條文修正草案,理交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣言完畢。10.委員葉元智等理據國民體育法第二條及第三條條文修正草案,理交政府及文化委員會審查,宣言完畢。"},{"start":11284.036,"end":11303.172,"text":"十一 委員葉元智的離去 就業保險法第十九條之二條維修正常案 擬交社會福利及外向環境委員會審查 宣傳並十二 委員油耗等擬廢止 內政部消防署阻止條例 擬交司法及法治內政委員會審查 宣傳並十三 委員油耗等擬廢止 內政部一件署阻止條例 擬交司法及法治內政委員會審查 宣傳並"},{"start":11305.214,"end":11324.831,"text":"十四 委員由浩德 理費局內政部議政署 組織法 禮教司法及法制內選兩委會審查 宣傳筆十五 委員由浩德 領據 延久文明法 第三條條文 修正草案 禮教財政委員會審查 宣傳筆十六 委員由浩德 領據 國立大學教育業項目基金 順勢條例 第三條條文 修正草案 禮教教育節文化委員會審查 宣傳筆"},{"start":11325.812,"end":11326.072,"text":"委員會選委員會選委員會選委員會選"},{"start":11346.658,"end":11356.72,"text":"二十一 臺灣民眾黨黨團領據公職員選舉報名法第26項委員會審查 宣言完畢二十一 臺灣民眾黨黨團領據保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰略計畫採購特別條例 審查 委員會審查 宣言完畢二十二 協政與海警宣言國民聯軍法部分條文修正 審查 委員會審查 宣言完畢二十三 協政與海警宣言自控防治法修正 審查 委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":11376.072,"end":11402.679,"text":"無異議通過報告事項第24案以下我們依序宣讀宣讀之後以上議案均照議事書意見通過請問願會有異議沒有異議請宣讀宣讀之後通過第24案 案為經濟母農業部國立國工博物院教育部國立國家通訊傳播委員會交通部海外113年度中央政府總算附屬單位選舉分別解鎖相關報告宣讀完畢"},{"start":11404.349,"end":11404.789,"text":"請問院會有意通過下一項"},{"start":11423.348,"end":11444.134,"text":"三 委員陳冠廷的連續中華民國領海吉林街區法律署調查文宣敦草案 擬交內政或交警府方刺激三委員會審查 宣布完畢四 委員陳冠廷的連續春風法則令第23條之一條文草案 擬交消動委員會審查 宣布完畢五 委員陳冠廷的連續廢棄五信令法第五室調查文宣敦草案 擬交社會福利局上環境委員會審查 宣布完畢五 委員陳冠廷的連續"},{"start":11444.494,"end":11444.795,"text":"民主黨委員會委員會長委員會長委員會長"},{"start":11462.817,"end":11466.681,"text":"8.委員鄭振賢的領據 銀行法第125條 兩位修正常任 理交財經委員會審查9."},{"start":11466.681,"end":11469.044,"text":"委員吳啓明的領據 森林法部分 兩位修正常任 理交經紀委員會審查10."},{"start":11469.044,"end":11472.448,"text":"委員萬美玲的領據 交易事法第25條 兩位修正常任 理交交易局王化委員會審查"},{"start":11479.375,"end":11480.056,"text":"委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查"},{"start":11510.035,"end":11511.536,"text":"委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查"},{"start":11528.96,"end":11530.642,"text":"五一通過下壓五一通過下壓五一通下壓"},{"start":11545.774,"end":11546.374,"text":"會議通過 下議案會議通過 下議案"},{"start":11568.134,"end":11591.301,"text":"21 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正22 內政部修正"},{"start":11594.552,"end":11603.301,"text":"23.外交部修正外國專業運載宣言來臺循職簽證 損殺集合發作業辦法 擬降外交警方內政兩委會 宣傳並不予通過效應24."},{"start":11603.301,"end":11615.733,"text":"消防委員會還違反14年度永久居留權 取得困難之國家或地區及其居留資格認定基準 實行期間已為中華民國表達14年6月30日屆滿 當然廢止 擬降外交警方內政兩委會 宣傳並不予通過效應"},{"start":11616.374,"end":11640.104,"text":"二十五 經濟不修正 為國代替專業人才具有經濟領域特殊專長 擬交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢二十六 經濟不修正 商業登記規範 收費準則第七條及第八條條文 擬交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢二十七 經濟不寒松 中小企業發展條例 第三階段條約鎖定基層員工範圍中有關中華民國一半十五年度基層員工薪資之一定金額 擬交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":11641.184,"end":11665.75,"text":"二十八 經濟部修正再生能源發電設備設置管理辦法 禮交經濟委員會 宣傳完畢二十九 經濟部含存外國特定專業人才 具有生技領域跳出專長 禮交經濟委員會 宣傳完畢三十 經濟部含存中華民國115年度再生能源電能短功費率及其計算公式 禮交經濟委員會 宣傳完畢報告 院會三十案 台灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查 下議案"},{"start":11666.212,"end":11693.819,"text":"三十一 经济部还送经济部换领马丹鲜艳色户灾后公有零售市场设施复原办法 领交经济委员会宣传递三十二 农业部公告自中华民国一边行为的1月1日起禁止搬运出于动物性肥脏 出行土产下脚料是株质饲养场所且不能作为饲料或饲料天天无食用 但符合公告事项一单数规定之株质饲养场所不在此限 领交经济委员会宣传递三十三 内政部修正经营"},{"start":11694.019,"end":11694.42,"text":"予以通過宣揚予以通過宣揚"},{"start":11710.421,"end":11718.968,"text":"35.内政部 农业部修正 水道收入保险 实际保险费 补助办法的一条集体税调是一条文 您交进行委员会 宣判定36."},{"start":11718.968,"end":11725.253,"text":"农业部修正 农业事业费 其后再利用管理办法第三条副表一 您交进行委员会 宣判定37."},{"start":11725.253,"end":11731.638,"text":"农业部修正 高高美国佛罗里达州 资高物业性价钱流行性感冒非许删除 您交进行委员会 宣判定38."},{"start":11731.638,"end":11734.28,"text":"农业部修正 高高美国佛罗里达州 资高物业性价钱流行性感冒非许"},{"start":11734.52,"end":11741.242,"text":"公告美国马里达州自公布疫情加强流行性感冒废去删除你将进行委员会宣传递49."},{"start":11741.242,"end":11747.443,"text":"农业部修正公告美国内布拉斯加州自公布疫情加强流行性感冒废去删除你将进行委员会宣传递40."},{"start":11747.443,"end":11749.164,"text":"农业部修正公告法国德隆盛自公布疫情加强流行性感冒废去删除你将进行委员会宣传递41."},{"start":11749.164,"end":11755.726,"text":"农业部修正公告法国德隆盛自公布疫情加强流行性感冒废去删除你将进行委员会宣传递42."},{"start":11755.726,"end":11756.086,"text":"农业部修正公告法国德隆"},{"start":11757.006,"end":11759.307,"text":"不宜通过宣言不宜通过宣言不宜通过宣言"},{"start":11781.295,"end":11788.998,"text":"44.農業部廢止各類選博非競合選不得進入安平漁港深水博區 領交基金委員會 宣傳並45."},{"start":11788.998,"end":11796.42,"text":"國家發展委員會 涵送 衛國專業人才 野蘭及公用法第14條所定條件 領交基金委員會 宣傳並46."},{"start":11796.42,"end":11805.083,"text":"金融建築委員會修正 衛國代替專業人才 具有金融領域 特殊專長職責的條件及認定原則第五點規定 領交財政委員會 宣傳並47."},{"start":11805.083,"end":11805.323,"text":"衛國專業人才"},{"start":11806.323,"end":11828.392,"text":"四十七金融監督管理委員會修正台灣地區到處地區保險應用往來及投資許可管理辦法部分條文及台灣地區保險機構在商訪門設立分支機構子公司需求辦法第三條第五條條文你交財政委員會宣傳並四十八金融監督管理委員會韓宋保險業作業委託他人處理內部作業制度及程序辦法你交財政委員會宣傳並"},{"start":11830.073,"end":11838.256,"text":"第49 金融監督管理委員會 韓宋有關國際金融業務條例第22條 注釋第一項第7款規定之令 擬交財政委員會 宣言不依同我宣言不依同我宣言"},{"start":11852.762,"end":11871.108,"text":"五十一 財政部修正 財政部雙區國稅局 苗栗分局編制表等六項編制表 並自一百十五年二月一日生效 擬交司法及法治財政兩委會 宣討完畢五十二 財政部修正 財政部北區國稅局 金融分局編制表等七項編制表 並自一百十五年二月一日生效 擬交司法及法治財政兩委會 宣討完畢"},{"start":11873.729,"end":11892.291,"text":"五十三 財政部修正 財政部南區國稅局 嘉義縣分局編制表等七項編制表並自一百九年二月一日生效 擬交司法及法制財政委員會 宣傳並五十四 教育部修正 救助私立 幼兒園 社會福利器 國稅生意專有及專屬單位獎募主辦法 擬交教育及文化委員會 宣傳並五十四 教育部修正 救助私立 幼兒園 社會福利器 國稅生意專有及專屬單位獎募主辦法 擬交教育及文化委員會 宣傳並五十四 教育部修正 救助私立"},{"start":11892.611,"end":11916.38,"text":"五十五 交通部修正公路通行費徵收管理辦法第十三條條文 擬交交通委員會 宣傳幣五十六 交通部海維採用國際海事組織所屬海洋環境保護委員會第七十二次會議所採納MEP 11.30072決議之壓艙水管理系統任何張承恩 擬交交通委員會 宣傳幣五十七 交通部修正穿梁鞋車安全聲音管理辦法第十四條附表 擬交交通委員會 宣傳幣五十七 交通部修正穿梁鞋車安全聲音管理辦法第十四條附表 擬交交通委員會 宣傳幣"},{"start":11917.901,"end":11918.802,"text":"五一通過宣揚五一通過宣揚"},{"start":11942.404,"end":11955.813,"text":"六十 數位發展部修正 資通安全管理法 執行七則 禮教消動委員會 宣讀完畢六十一 數位發展部還為資通安全事件通報及一遍辦法 禮教消動委員會 宣讀完畢六十二 數位發展部修正 資通安全警司分享辦法 禮教消動委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":11964.099,"end":11978.87,"text":"64.公務人員保障及培訓委員會修正国家文官學院中區培訓中心編制表 並自115.2月1日宣效 擬交司法及法制委員會 宣布完畢65.公務人員保障及培訓委員會修正 國家文官學院中區培訓中心辦事系組 地方調集地所採訪 並自115.2月1日施行 擬交司法及法制委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":11991.34,"end":11993.721,"text":"報告院會本案由國民黨團體改交審查我們現在交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查"},{"start":12009.548,"end":12012.13,"text":"法院院會六七案有國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下議案委員長我宣言"},{"start":12034.787,"end":12053.343,"text":"六十九 衛生福利部還為斷層掃描用正值放射同為俗優良調氣作業準則名稱修正為正準樣品優良調氣作業準則並修正條文並立交社會福利及生活環境委員會宣傳並七十 衛生福利部還送在生醫療實際審查費收費標準立交社會福利及生活環境委員會宣傳並"},{"start":12054.406,"end":12077.228,"text":"委員會本案70 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一頁711 衛生福利部修正受聘務外國人健康檢查管理辦法擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳並委員會通過下頁711 衛生福利部廢止全民健康保險 保險評準 盧卡設備 值安全模組卡 收費標準擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳並委員會通過下頁"},{"start":12077.748,"end":12103.397,"text":"七十三 衛生福利部修正 特定醫療技術檢查檢驗醫療儀器實行或使用規定辦法部分條文 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢七十三 國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一項七十四 衛生福利部喊送再修醫療統一書內容 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢七十四 國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一項"},{"start":12104.591,"end":12115.738,"text":"75 衛生福利局韓送在宣揚雷霆規範的四項規定你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳並委員會75案 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一項"},{"start":12116.701,"end":12140.732,"text":"76 衛生福利部修正 居民嚴審的入辦法第四條及第六條導文 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢76 國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一頁77 衛生福利部修正 入試兒童及少年生活輔助與托育及醫療費用補助辦法第四條 第六條及第七條導文 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢不予通過 下一頁"},{"start":12141.312,"end":12162.357,"text":"七十八 勞動部修正勞動部勞動力發展署編制表 擬交司法及法治社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢七十九 勞動部含三位國專業人才依賴及雇用法第十一條 規定為國人申請許可及國內辦法 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢七十九 按國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下案"},{"start":12163.678,"end":12184.626,"text":"80 勞動務修正 勞動務修理 外國專業 人才 遊覽及公用法 涉及人權收費標準 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣討完畢委員通過下言81 勞動務修正 僱主 聘務外國人 需可及管理一般法 部分條文 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣討完畢委員會81案 國民黨團體改交審查 本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下言"},{"start":12185.126,"end":12205.653,"text":"八十二 勞動部修正 外國人受聘務 從事就業扶法 第四十六條 聽向第八款 制定十一款 規定工作時轉換雇主或工作程序準則部分條文 禮教社會福利及優先環境委員會 宣傳第八十三 勞動部修正 就業扶法 申請案件 審查分析 證照費 收費標準 第二條及第六條條文 禮教社會福利及優先環境委員會 宣傳第"},{"start":12206.573,"end":12223.511,"text":"八十四 勞動部修正 共處聘僱外國人從新就業服務法第四十六條 定向地盤會 追締實管歸定式工作應強納就業安定費數額票 禮交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣言完畢報議院會八十四案 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案"},{"start":12223.922,"end":12242.02,"text":"八十五 勞動部還送外國技術人力工作資格及學校管理辦法 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳幣八十五 案國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下議案八十六 勞動部還為北約修正職業安全衛生法 部分條文通過附帶權益 解送保障勞工並駕駛時書面劃工 擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳幣"},{"start":12245.623,"end":12251.565,"text":"八十八 環境部修正土壤污染評估調查及檢測作業管理辦法第四條附件依附將有期 第六條附表禮教社會福利及文獻環境委員會 宣傳並八十九案 國民黨團體改交審查"},{"start":12268.729,"end":12284.217,"text":"跟證 八十八案 違議通過 下一項八十九 環境部修正共同性訓練費期負責任 管理辦法第四條 複表你將社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢八十九案 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一項"},{"start":12285.23,"end":12294.458,"text":"90.環境部修正應裝置及其追蹤系統之清潔機具及其規定公告事項第二項您請擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳並91."},{"start":12294.458,"end":12302.023,"text":"環境部修正應辦廢棄無限主體方式公告事項附表1擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳並91."},{"start":12302.023,"end":12307.648,"text":"國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一項"},{"start":12308.248,"end":12326.416,"text":"九十二 環境部還送外國特定專業人才具有環境領域特殊專長擬交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣暖幣九十二 國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 下一項九十三 環境部修正大型柴油車調修燃油控制系統或加裝控控器"},{"start":12326.516,"end":12327.077,"text":"委員通過下一案委員通過"},{"start":12343.82,"end":12345.982,"text":"包園會95-184案依序宣讀其中95-100、103、107-111、114、117至124、126至130、132至136、138、139案台灣民眾黨團提議改交審查"},{"start":12364.056,"end":12381.309,"text":"宣讀之後以上議案均改交相關委員會審查其餘的議案均照議事處意見通過請問院會有異議沒有異議我們宣讀之後通過請宣讀第九案 最低1842位行政院大陸委員會不當黨產處理委員會外交部國軍退學官並不當委員會"},{"start":12382.15,"end":12404.94,"text":"民國防部國防部經濟部農業部金融監督管理委員會中央銀行文化部國家科學及技術委員會可能安全委員會交通部數位發展部經常員秘書長考試員秘書長國家發展委員會公民交易委員會財政部行政院主席總署國立故宮博物院教育部運動部中央研究院國家通訊傳播委員會國家運輸安全調查委員會衛生福利部環境部勞動部防護部"},{"start":12406.301,"end":12431.502,"text":"行政院人事行政總署韓文憲更年度相應一歲一百十四年度中央政府走一歲一百十四年度中央政府走一歲附屬單位一歲中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安徵信特別預算等預算權益分別解送相關報告宣讀完畢請宣讀質詢事項質詢事項本院委員質詢部分本院總委員經會向行政院提出質詢供應件宣讀完畢報告"},{"start":12433.12,"end":12461.414,"text":"報告院會報告事項已經處理完畢我們現在進行討論事項第一案本院國民黨團台灣民眾黨團共同提案建請院會作成決議115年度總預算案中具有急迫性及攸關重大民生資新興資本支出及新增計劃本院同意先行予以動之請公決案"},{"start":12461.954,"end":12483.85,"text":"本案經第四會期第十九次會議決議協商之後再行處理報告委員會本案依照黨團共識我們現在做以下決議協商之後再行處理報告委員會依照黨團共識上午的會議進行到此為止下午兩點三十分我們繼續開會進行後續討論事項現在休息"},{"start":21553.174,"end":21562.881,"text":"官員會我們現在繼續開會進行討論事項第二案住宅法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":21564.011,"end":21583.526,"text":"本院內建委員會於114年4月24日、6月19日、8月14日、12月24日及29日分別召開全體委員會議審查傷害草案由內建委員會劉兆謹委員許廷、黃兆謹委員兼並擔任主席除要請田委員說明田要職並邀請相關機關代表列席報告並辦諮詢"},{"start":21585.834,"end":21609.776,"text":"於報告期尋答完畢 進行條文制諸條審查與會員於聽取証明並經准異討論後 完成全案制審查令通過附帶權益三項全案病案審查完畢 理據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前 需請黨團先生院會討論時 推請黃召集委員建兵做補充說明宣讀完畢我們現在請召集委員黃建兵委員補充說明"},{"start":21610.578,"end":21632.036,"text":"沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議須交由黨團協商另外黃建豪委員等張志倫委員等郭國文委員等分別提案經第四會期第十六次十七次會議決定禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商廖偉祥委員等"},{"start":21632.951,"end":21651.538,"text":"經第四會期第19次會議決定自委員會抽出二讀與相關提案並按協商報言會本案現在已經完成協商請宣讀協商結論立法院黨團協商結論時間115年1月28日星期三上午11時29日星期四下午3時30分地點紅樓301 302會議室"},{"start":21658.141,"end":21686.835,"text":"寫上主題住宅法部分條文修正草案寫上結論一保留條文第47條第52條送院會處理二寫上通過條文第4條第18條如附件含立法說明三第10條不予修正維持現行條文四第57條之一不予增訂五增列附帶決議項如附件六區域軍造審查會審查結果通過七本案院會進行處理"},{"start":21688.34,"end":21717.151,"text":"廣泛討論由各黨團各推派一人發言每人發言時間為三分鐘逐條討論時各黨團均不發言保留條文依各黨團版本提出先後進行處理禮讓民進黨黨團版本優先西洋主持人韓國瑜將啟程西洋代表羅志強林沛翔傅君綺徐宇甄游浩游許婷柯建民鍾嘉斌陳培瑜張其楷陳昭芝黃國昌麥玉珍張宏祿宣讀完畢"},{"start":21718.295,"end":21726.102,"text":"請問院會對以上協商結論有意義沒有意義我們本案後續依照協商結論進行處理我們現在進行廣泛討論各黨團推派代表發言首先請黃國昌委員發言張宏祿委員請準備"},{"start":21756.485,"end":21773.456,"text":"院長 本院委員軍事正義是2024年台灣民眾黨邁向大選的時候我們對於全國的人民全國的年輕人所做的莊嚴承諾這個承諾事實上在2023年7月16號數萬名的年輕人聚集凱道發出怒吼的時候我們說過了"},{"start":21783.727,"end":21806.224,"text":"針對於居住正義的實踐怎麼樣在社會住宅建立中央統一登記的平台為輪候制打下好的基礎怎麼樣讓租屋市場的透明化能夠落實保障每一個租屋者的權益這些承諾我們從來沒有忘記"},{"start":21807.779,"end":21828.006,"text":"對於民主進步黨而言 舉注正義向來只是騙選票的工具除了現在賴清德自己任期還沒有到 就已經自己先跳票高喊社會住宅百萬戶 結果搞到現在剩下四萬戶"},{"start":21829.766,"end":21858.365,"text":"連這一次在推動有關於住宅法相關的修正我們的主管機關我們的民進黨政府找出各式各樣的藉口就是不願意落實連最基本的租屋市場透明化連最基本的建立全國社會住宅統一需求平台的登記藉口一堆都不願意做甚至"},{"start":21859.591,"end":21881.037,"text":"在今天民主進步黨所討論出來院會最後一天的討論事項根本連住宅法三個字都沒有看到面對當民進黨政府過去這八年來不斷地將台灣的房價指數推高"},{"start":21882.284,"end":21911.35,"text":"不斷的讓房價所得比失控甚至推出離譜的新清安的政策荒腔走板讓熱錢進入不動產市場不斷的推高房價的同時我們還看到民進黨政府說他們推了囤房稅2.0結果我公開質詢的時候直接問財政部直接問內政部為什麼"},{"start":21912.23,"end":21940.38,"text":"在民進黨政府推了囤房數2.0之後全國的空汙數 全國的空汙率不斷攀下歷史新高台灣民眾黨說到做到2023年7月16號我們在凱道跟大家所做的承諾我也要謝謝中國國民黨非常多的委員的支持我們今天一起完成三讀謝謝大家好 謝謝黃國昌委員的發言"},{"start":21941.021,"end":21944.842,"text":"接下來我們請張宏祿委員發言 牛許廷委員請準備啊 各位 群院的同仁"},{"start":21966.383,"end":21989.93,"text":"住宅法要進步的力量大家都要我們在委員會將近30條的法案的修正案我們一個一個一個討論討論到剩下兩個我在這邊必須要講一句話不要眺望天邊的彩虹啊然後啊踩壞啊眼前的玫瑰我為什麼要這樣子說呢進步大家都要但"},{"start":21995.422,"end":22017.256,"text":"我們剩下保留的47條跟52條第47條它要求我們未來所有的申報要以每坪來計算這會造成兩個後果一個填寫不容易另外一個租金會上漲為什麼要這樣說"},{"start":22019.261,"end":22045.93,"text":"很多人舉很多外國的例子但舉的例子都是時評制的國家如果今天這個法案在商辦商業辦公大牢我百分之百支持但台灣的租屋條件不一樣記得我從南部來台北的時候我租的房子是跟房東住在一起房東就一間房子租給我"},{"start":22046.997,"end":22066.848,"text":"那到底算幾坪啦房東也不知道我們也不知道那我們現在的租屋市場有雅房有套房有整層的如果你是整層出租我覺得還可以核實的去填寫如果你是租雅房你是租套房"},{"start":22067.921,"end":22096.228,"text":"房東如果給你的是實際的坪數還是群狀的坪數這到時候誤差會非常的大那如果大家都停寫的是我實際套房的坪數我跟你講未來會造成租金大幅的上漲對租客族是非常非常的不利的所以這一點我們沒有說不修改我們只是說不要到每坪計"},{"start":22097.81,"end":22120.237,"text":"你可以我現在的租屋我雅房多少我套房多少我們先這樣填寫我們一步不能賣得太快不然會造成租金的上漲先學會跑再來跳再來52條一直說要給房東更多的補助跟修繕不得低於2.5倍"},{"start":22122.059,"end":22145.338,"text":"我相信如果常常租過房子的人就知道如果我房子沒有壞我最討厭我最不喜歡我的屋主來找我說他要幹嘛幹嘛未來如果每年要請這筆修繕我們的租客每天每年一定要讓房東進來修房子進來敲敲打打這是我們不樂意所見的啊好 謝謝張宏祿委員的發言"},{"start":22151.263,"end":22175.723,"text":"接下來我們請劉許庭委員請發言謝謝主席 大院各位同仁有關居住正義的住宅法修正草案本屆在跨黨派的委員有提出非常非常多不同的版本無非就是希望在這個基本的居住需求上面可以進一步的獲得滿足並且提高相關的品質"},{"start":22176.684,"end":22197.174,"text":"首先我們要特別感謝黃建斌召委在這個會期積極的來排案本月南內政委員會利用第三會期跟第四會期接近一整年的時間充分的討論讓修法的重點聚焦在第一擴大社宅的入住資格以20%的額度優惠入住社宅鼓勵婚育家庭"},{"start":22197.794,"end":22224.512,"text":"第二提高包租代包租的社宅數量以及大幅的增加政策誘因第三增加社宅用地的儲備機制第四建立統一的社會住宅登記平台為社會住宅的輪候制打下堅實的基礎最後是有關於租屋市場透明化讓每一年投入這麼多的預算投入租屋補貼等等優惠要收到更好的政策效果"},{"start":22225.172,"end":22248.524,"text":"這五大議題在充分的討論之後大體上都大步的向前邁進很多的條文已經在內政委員會跟黨團協商時達成共識現在只剩要如何公佈租屋價格資訊以及包租的補助倍數這兩項尚待院會表決本席要強調單位面積的租金才能夠真實反映居住品質所需要付出的真實價格水準"},{"start":22249.144,"end":22268.362,"text":"不納入面積的總價本身不具備可比性更有可能造成租金總價不變但是貧數持續縮水的隱形租金通膨也使得政府沒有辦法充分的掌握租賃市場真正的價格結構而削弱補貼政策精準對接品質的能力而加大"},{"start":22269.002,"end":22286.951,"text":"力道補助包租是為了要平衡包租跟貸管的失衡狀態現在的狀況是大部分人都投入了貸管但包租這個進步有限我們希望更多的業者也好房東也好願意投入租期更穩定的包租房屋去充實租賃市場"},{"start":22287.791,"end":22313.401,"text":"所以透過不得低於2.5倍這樣子的一個修法希望政府增編預算鼓勵包租的政策能夠趕上進度我們懇請院會可以支持國民黨跟民眾黨共同的修正動議我們要誠懇的呼籲內政部懸崖勒馬社宅興建13萬戶政策目標不應該下修而是應該善用本次住宅法修訂的社宅儲備機制配合各地的軌道建設"},{"start":22314.241,"end":22315.061,"text":"讓我們一起讓居住正義再往前一步謝謝"},{"start":22342.228,"end":22343.409,"text":"主宰法第一條第二條"},{"start":22372.811,"end":22376.246,"text":"維持現行條文請宣讀第四條"},{"start":22377.335,"end":22406.599,"text":"第四条主管机关及民间新办公室社会住宅应以直辖市县市辖区为计算范围提供至少40%比率出租于经济或社会弱势者提供至少20%比率出租于新冠二年内或拥有未成年子女之婚姻家庭另提供一定比例于未设计于当地且在该地区就学就业有居住需求者但申请时婚姻家庭数量未达保留比率者剩余部分不在此限"},{"start":22407.499,"end":22425.342,"text":"前項經濟或社會弱勢者身份指家庭總收入平均分配全家人口之金額及家庭財政未掌握主管機關公告之一定標準且符合下列規定之一者一、低收入戶或中低收入戶二、特殊金融家庭三、育有未成年子女二人以上"},{"start":22426.142,"end":22452.251,"text":"4 于安置教养机构或寄养家庭结束安置无法返家未满25岁或65岁以上之老人6 受家庭暴力或性侵害之受害者及其子女其身心障碍者8 感染人类免疫缺乏病毒者或罹患后天免疫缺乏症候群者9 原住民10 灾民11 游民12 因怀孕或生育而遭遇困境之未成年人"},{"start":22453.311,"end":22474.785,"text":"13.其他经主管机关认定者,第一项预免未成年子女之家庭,已未成年子女人数较多者先于成租其办法由主管机关定之宣读完毕好,协商条文通过第五条、第九条、第十条、第十五条、第十六条均维持现行条文请宣读第十八条"},{"start":22475.526,"end":22491.473,"text":"第十八條 中央主管機關應建制全國統一之申請登記平台供符合第25條第一項資格之人登記經申請人統一者並得自相關目的事業主管機關間接其家庭成員之護證、殘稅及社會福利個人資料"},{"start":22492.85,"end":22519.877,"text":"主管機關依舊前項資料定期統計分析將其供給區委護署需求防行配比其所需公共設施作為將來擬定社會住宅新辦計劃之依據並於主管機關之網站公開之第一項由中央主管機關建置之申請登記平台的間接指向市縣市主管機關之社會住宅登記平台宣讀完畢照寫上條文通過第19條維持現行條文請宣讀增訂"},{"start":22522.168,"end":22549.814,"text":"第十九條之一第十九條之一第十九條第一項第六款新辦之社會住宅各年度計劃物件總量中財存租民間住宅並轉租及單位管理以達百分之五十為原則並優先轉租於符合本法第四條第二項之對象宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第二十條維持現行條文請宣讀增訂第二十一條之一"},{"start":22550.373,"end":22572.678,"text":"第21條之一 都市計畫擬定機關與辦理都市計畫新訂擴大或通盤檢討時因衡著當地人口發展及居住狀況會商指向市縣市主管機關評估社會住宅使用之需求化設社會住宅所需用地宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過第22條至第25條第33條至第35條第39條"},{"start":22579.779,"end":22589.69,"text":"第40條第43條均維持現行條文報告委員會我們要現在進行處理保留條文第47條請宣讀"},{"start":22592.335,"end":22620.786,"text":"民进党党团再修正动议第47条为引导住宅市场健全发展主管机关应定期缩及分析及公布下列住宅资讯一租赁于满满住宅市场之供给需求用地及交易价格二租赁住宅市场一期形态及屋龄区分至租金价格资讯并以中位数及分位数方式呈现其中属第9条第一项第三款及第19条第一项第6款之租住宅者应优先办理三"},{"start":22621.326,"end":22642.557,"text":"经济或社会弱势者之居住需求 住宅补贴政策成效四 居住品质状况 住宅环境风险及居住满意度五 其他必要事住宅资讯前项住宅资讯之搜集各级政府情况购物金融 住宅投资 生产交易及使用等相关产业 工会及团体应配合提供相关统计资讯"},{"start":22643.357,"end":22660.5,"text":"资料搜集运用及发布应遵守相关法律之规定住宅相关咨询之搜集管理及奖励办法由中央主管机关定之台湾民众的党团、国民党、党团共同所提在修正多一第47条为引导住宅市场健全发展"},{"start":22661.061,"end":22684.446,"text":"主管机关应定其收集分析及公布下列住宅资讯1.买卖住宅市场之供及需求用地及交易价格2.租赁住宅市场依其形态及屋龄区分之每平租金价格资讯并以中位数及分位数之方式呈现其中属第9条第1项第3款及第19条第1项第6款之成租住宅准应优先办理"},{"start":22685.046,"end":22713.836,"text":"三 经济或社会弱势者之居住需求住宅补贴政策成效四 居住品质状况住宅环境风险及居住满意度五 其他必要之住宅资讯前项住宅资讯之收集各级政府 金管购物金融 住宅投资生产交易及使用等相关产业公会及团体应配合提供相关统计资讯资料收集运用及发布应遵守相关法律之规定住宅相关资讯之收集管理及奖励办法"},{"start":22714.136,"end":22725.338,"text":"由中央主管監管定制宣傳完畢好 抱怨會我們現在開始進行處理我們開始按鈴7分鐘病情異常人員發表決卡現在開始按鈴"},{"start":23149.397,"end":23174.713,"text":"好報議會我們按鈴時間已到請問委員是否都有拿到表決卡都有拿到表決卡我們要開始進行表決我們首先要表決民進黨所提在修正動議條文現在民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決贊成民進黨在修正動議條文請按贊成反對按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":23249.122,"end":23267.051,"text":"報告表決結果在場出席委員108位贊成47位反對61位贊成者少數民進黨團所提再修正動議條文不通過"},{"start":23268.53,"end":23287.608,"text":"我們現在開始進行表決台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團共同所提再修正動議條文現在由民進黨、台灣民眾黨要求記名表決贊成兩黨所提再修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":23359.738,"end":23379.215,"text":"保留委員會報告表決結果在場委員108位贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第47條照台灣民眾黨團國民黨團共同所提在修正動議條文通過我們現在進行保留條文第52條請宣讀"},{"start":23381.65,"end":23402.683,"text":"民进党党团在修正动议第52条主管机会为提升租屋市场健全方针因严厉住宅租赁发展政策针对租赁相关制度专业服务及第四条经济或社会弱势租赁协助严厉短中长期进化并求租屋市场资讯媒合服务专业管理协助及纠纷咨询等"},{"start":23403.183,"end":23428.474,"text":"提供相关服务 前线服务等由租屋服务事业办理其认定及奖励办法 由中央主管机关定制行政署第19条 第一项第6款承租民间住宅并转租及单位管理物件之补助出租人总金额以每合成出租双方及单位管理物件2.5倍为原则台湾民众党团 国民党党团共同所提在修正动议第52条"},{"start":23429.634,"end":23449.08,"text":"主管机关为提升租屋市场稳健全发展因严厉注在租赁发展政策针对租赁相关制度专业服务及第四条经济或社会弱势租赁协助严厉短中长期进化并就租屋市场资讯媒合服务专业管理协助及纠纷咨询等提供相关服务"},{"start":23449.6,"end":23469.418,"text":"前项服务等由租屋服务事业办理其认定及奖励办法由中央主管机关定制其中属第19条第一项第6款全租民间住宅并转租及单位管理物件只补充出租人总金额不等小于每合成租租双方及单位管理物件2.5倍宣传完毕"},{"start":23471.872,"end":23492.232,"text":"外務院會莊瑞雄委員發表聲明對剛才的表決與民進黨黨團意見一致我們列入公報記錄我們現在開始進行表決民進黨團在修正動議條文現在由民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始記名表決暫時民進黨所提在修正動議條文請按暫時反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":23567.592,"end":23578.018,"text":"貿易會報告表決結果在場委員108位贊成48位反對60位贊成者少數民進黨黨團在修正動議條文不通過我們現在開始進行表決台灣民眾黨團國民黨團共同所提在修正動議條文"},{"start":23586.583,"end":23596.197,"text":"現在有民進黨團 台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決贊成兩黨團所共同所提再修正動議條文請安贊成 反對 請安反對時間一分鐘 現在開始"},{"start":23671.408,"end":23698.96,"text":"報告委員會報告表決結果出席108位委員贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第52條照台灣民眾黨團國民黨團共同所提在修正動議條文通過報告委員會范雲委員等提案第5章之1張明第52條之1第53條之1及牛許廷委員等提案第57條之1均不予增訂"},{"start":23700.302,"end":23728.492,"text":"报告院会我们全院已经经过二读现在有国民党团台湾民众党团分别提议继续进行三读请问院会有无疑没有疑我们现在开始请宣读经过二读这条文第四条主管机关及民间新犯罪社会住宅应以直辖市县市辖区为计算范围提供至少百分之四十比率出租于经济或社会弱势者提供至少百分之二十比率出租于新犯二年内或育幼"},{"start":23728.732,"end":23753.264,"text":"未成年子女之婚育家庭另提供一定比率于未涉及于当地且在该地区就学就业有居住需求者但申请时婚育家庭数量未达保留比率者剩余部分不在此限选项经济或社会弱势者身份指家庭总收入平均分配全家人口之金额及家庭财产为超过主管金管公告之一定标准且符合下列规定之一者"},{"start":23753.744,"end":23779.24,"text":"一 低收入户或中低收入户二 特殊境遇家庭三 遇有未成年子女二人以上四 于安置教养机构或寄养家庭结束安置无法返迁未满25岁或65岁以上之老人六 受家庭暴力或性侵害之受害者及其子女其身心障碍者八 感染人类免疫缺乏病毒者或罹患后天免疫缺乏症候群者"},{"start":23779.72,"end":23797.285,"text":"九 原住民十 災民十一 遊民十二 因懷孕或生育而遭遇困境之未成年人十三 其他經營主管機關認定者第一項 欲有未成年子女之家庭以未成年子女人數消多者先於成豬其辦法由主管機關定之"},{"start":23799.147,"end":23813.578,"text":"第18條 中央主管機關應建制全國統一之申請登記平台供符合第25條第一項資格之人登記經申請的統一者並得自相關目的事業主管機關藉機其家庭成員之戶政財稅及社會福利個人資料"},{"start":23815.78,"end":23837.608,"text":"主管机关依旧前项资料定期统计分析将其供给军委获取需求方行配比及所需公共设施作为将来拟定社会住宅新办计划之依据并于主管机关之网站公开之第一项由中央主管机关建置之申请登记平台而借鉴直辖市县市主管机关之社会住宅登记平台"},{"start":23839.403,"end":23854.037,"text":"第十九条第一项第六款新办公室社会住宅各年多计换物件总量中载全租民间住宅并转租及单位管理已到50%为原则并优先转租于符合本法第四条第二项之对象"},{"start":23856.252,"end":23871.871,"text":"第21條之一 都市計劃擬定機關與辦理都市計劃新訂 擴大或通販檢討時因橫著當地人口發展及居住狀況 會商指向市縣市主管機關評估社會住宅使用之需求 劃清社會住宅所需用地"},{"start":23873.942,"end":23900.572,"text":"第47条 为引导住宅市场坚决方案主管机关应定其收集分析及公布销列住宅资讯一 晚班住宅市场之供给需求用地及交易价格二 租赁住宅市场应其形态及物领区分之每平租金价格资讯并以中位数及分位数之方式呈现其中所第9条 第1项第3款及第19条第1项第6款之成租住宅者应优先办理"},{"start":23901.692,"end":23922.403,"text":"3.经济或社会弱势救市居住需求住宅补贴政策成项4.居住品质状况 住宅环境风险及居住文艺度5.其他必要时住宅资讯成项住宅资讯支收及各级政府清关购金融住宅投资 生产交易及使用的相关产业公会及团体应配合提供相关统计资讯"},{"start":23923.584,"end":23932.294,"text":"資料蒐集運用及發布應遵守相關法令之規定註冊相關資訊之蒐集管理及獎勵辦法由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":23933.991,"end":23956.941,"text":"第52条主管机关为提升租屋市场健全发展因严厉注册租赁发展政策针对租赁相关制度专业服务及第4条经济或社会弱势租赁协助严厉短中长期进化并就租屋市场资讯媒合服务专业管理协助及纠纷咨询等提供相关服务前项服务等由租屋服务事业办理"},{"start":23957.521,"end":23982.07,"text":"其認定及獎勵辦法由中央主管機關定之其中屬第19條第1項第6款承租民間住宅並轉租及代為管理物件只補助出租人總金額不等省於媒合、承租、承出租雙方及代為管理物件2.5倍宣讀完畢報應會三讀條文已經宣讀完畢現在有三個黨團"},{"start":23983.888,"end":24007.636,"text":"共同提議第19條之一 據守第19條文字修正為前提請問院會 有無異議沒有異議 我們就找三個黨團共同所提意見做文字修正報告院會 現在有國民黨團依據立法院職權新設法第11條規定您提請將全案負表決"},{"start":24008.769,"end":24024.497,"text":"我們現在進行全案表決贊成全案通過者請按贊成反對請按反對棄權請按棄權現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24101.794,"end":24126.522,"text":"報告表決結果在場為108位贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數全案表決通過我們現在做以下決議住宅法增訂第19條報告現在民進黨團要求重複表決我們要進行重複表決針對"},{"start":24131.007,"end":24137.898,"text":"全案的副表決我們要再一次進行表決贊成國民黨團 請按贊成反對 請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24217.373,"end":24236.991,"text":"報告表決結果出席108位贊成108票反對0票棄權0票贊成者多數我們全院表決通過我們現在做以下決議住宅法徵定第19條之一及第21條之一條文"},{"start":24239.002,"end":24244.746,"text":"並將第4條、98條、第47條及第52條條文修正通過我們繼續處理審查會通過及協商結論所作之附帶決議請議事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容委員會通過附帶決議三項"},{"start":24264.144,"end":24286.065,"text":"一 未物實回應原住民的居住需求本次修法後原住民組委員會應與主管機關協商規劃以參見方式換取提高一定比例原住民可承租戶的方式創造原住民可鋪單可選擇且具文化尊重的居住選項二 建井內政部應盡速研議"},{"start":24286.775,"end":24313.24,"text":"修正社會住宅相關申請規定將未成年身心障礙者納入社會住宅經濟或社會弱勢者適用對象三 內政部應與財政部定期視租屋市長行情滾動檢討免稅額度及提供適度支付稅優惠每六個月送交書面報告與內政委員會協商結論通過互待決議項"},{"start":24315.831,"end":24329.32,"text":"主管機關研議以下行政作為之可行性一 內政部應重新檢視並修正包租代管相關獎勵辦法確立高補貼諸若四之政策原則二"},{"start":24330.698,"end":24351.03,"text":"內政部應與相關執法或契約換本中明訂包租業者落實優先轉租與落實互補之具體義務三 請內政部於本法修正通過後六個月內向立法院內政委員會提出具體執行方案及防弊機制之書面報告宣讀完畢"},{"start":24352.93,"end":24363.581,"text":"官員會依照協商結論我們均照案通過我們現在進入討論事項第三案衛星廣播電視法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":24364.963,"end":24384.524,"text":"本院交通委員會分別於114年12月8日及12月22日召開全體委員會議審查上刊草案均由洪兆起委員孟凱擔任主席委員張琦凱等說明台要職國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹報告並邀請金融監督管理委員會等相關機關派員列席備詢"},{"start":24386.045,"end":24389.746,"text":"我們現在請召集委員洪孟凱委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議須交由黨團協商報告委員會本案已經完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":24416.243,"end":24441.915,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間115年1月28日星期三上午11時地點本院紅樓山林會議室斜陽主題衛星廣播電視法部分條文修正草案斜陽結論1第4條第20條第49條及第66條之一均不予修正維持現行條文2增訂第12條之一及增訂第58條之一均不予增訂"},{"start":24442.699,"end":24469.688,"text":"三 第五條 第十條 第十七條 第十八條 第十九條及第五十條均保留送請院會處理四 針列附帶決議一項如附件五 其餘均照審查會審查結果通過六 本案院會進行處理時廣泛討論由各黨團各推派議員發言逐條討論不再發言逐條時保留條文依各黨團版本提出先後進行表決"},{"start":24470.868,"end":24497.208,"text":"協商主持人韓國瑜、江啟臣協商代表傅根吉、羅志強、林佩翔、柯建銘、陳培宇、鍾嘉斌、張喜凱、陳紮之、黃國昌宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有異議沒有異議我們本案後續就依照協商結論進行處理拜會我們要進行廣泛討論請各黨團推派代表發言首先請陳培宇委員發言羅志強委員請準備"},{"start":24503.844,"end":24521.01,"text":"謝謝主席首先在發言之前我要拜託並且我要公開請問國民黨還有民眾黨的委員你們今天的提案會不會回溯到中天電視台請等一下上台發言的時候公開告訴全台灣人民"},{"start":24521.63,"end":24536.009,"text":"你們今天的修法會不會回溯到正在進行行政訴訟的中天電視台等一下請直接上台回應請你們公開保證不會回復到"},{"start":24538.152,"end":24555.076,"text":"中天電視台陳玉珍我等你我要告訴大家中天電視台就是媒體界的第五壯隊媒體的威力跟陳健是一樣的我再說一次請尊重發言委員權謝謝韓院長陳玉珍不要打斷我的發言"},{"start":24559.827,"end":24581.042,"text":"我要再說一次媒體的威力跟武器是一樣的現在台灣人每天都在受到假訊息還有資訊認知作戰的威脅而今天等一下我們要表決的衛廣有兩條正是國民黨為了中天大開後門我再次強調"},{"start":24581.903,"end":24597.719,"text":"大開後門而條文當中有非常多荒謬的地方我們等一下就來看看國民黨跟民眾黨要如何表態同時我要拜託大家幫我諧詢2019年舉辦反紅媒大遊行的黃國昌委員"},{"start":24605.165,"end":24620.335,"text":"在外面不敢進來黃國昌你當時說拒絕紅色媒體守護台灣民主我今天這把話還給你等一下我們來看一看黃國昌跟民眾黨你們等一下怎麼表態"},{"start":24622.497,"end":24639.197,"text":"2019年黃國昌跟館長站在舞台上告訴大家拒絕紅色媒體守護台灣民主甚至還在遊行的前幾天親自走到NCC要求撤銷中天的執照"},{"start":24640.158,"end":24655.718,"text":"2020年NCC駁回中天換照的申請黃國昌還發文感謝說NCC委員頂住了政治壓力守住了專業審查終於可以向蔡衍明的中天告別了"},{"start":24656.839,"end":24679.637,"text":"黃國昌當時還痛批中天跟國民黨不斷炒作似是而非的言論但很可惜我們看到了2019年跟2026年的黃國昌看起來不是同一個人但態度始終如一協助中天在台灣作亂是媒體界的第五縱隊中天就是在台灣的官媒"},{"start":24680.157,"end":24703.306,"text":"就是台北的央視媒體的威力不可小覷等一下十八十九條我就公開呼籲請國民黨說清楚你們等一下通過的條款不會回溯到中天電視台謝謝陳培委員的發言歡迎再一次拜託大家今天是最後一次的院會本會期請務必尊重不同"},{"start":24704.807,"end":24733.641,"text":"我知道尊重委員發言的權益拜託大家即使大家可能理念上不接受而且今天有六位立法委員即將離開立法院最後一次的院會請大家珍惜彼此的機會務必尊重發言委員的權益特別拜託大家接下來我們請羅志強委員發言林國成委員請準備民進黨放開你的張手"},{"start":24734.929,"end":24754.742,"text":"民進黨放開你打壓新聞 剷除異己的髒手今天為廣法的修正 標示的就是我們捍衛新聞自由的決心十年政績忙忙忙 打壓新聞就是民進黨"},{"start":24756.411,"end":24771.018,"text":"在這次我們修法當中我們開宗明義就先把憲法當中捍衛新聞自由作為衛廣法的一個立法目的直接將捍衛新聞自由入法"},{"start":24772.045,"end":24799.33,"text":"更重要的是過去NCC成為民進黨御用東廠找盡各種理由來去壓制言論來去關新聞台的這件事情這一次我們在衛廣法修正當中也特別的來去嚴加的限制今天民進黨濫用NCC來去關新聞台"},{"start":24800.49,"end":24822.708,"text":"我要回溯台灣民主發展的歷程今天民進黨在過去十年執政最大的成就就是關新聞台民進黨一天到晚把鄭南榮放在嘴上百分之百的言論自由但是只要你敢今天對執政者的異議"},{"start":24824.49,"end":24841.969,"text":"對執政者監督對執政者批判我告訴你NCC就會出動這NCC荒謬到什麼程度他今天違法濫權毀憲亂政關掉新聞台結果呢用的理由"},{"start":24843.308,"end":24861.017,"text":"都被法院打臉一而再 三而四的敗訴創下有史以來訴訟費用最高的NCC敗訴連連因為連法院都不能認同NCC這種違法亂證所以民進黨在胡扯什麼"},{"start":24862.295,"end":24878.207,"text":"你今天看看我們未管法修正很簡單我們要求今天如果說今天NCC做出撤銷新聞台的處分法院一旦判決NCC判敗"},{"start":24879.728,"end":24901.98,"text":"NCC負擔回復頻道的責任 這有什麼不對法院如果打臉NCC 難道NCC不該修正它的錯誤嗎結果民進黨上綱到什麼地方 又是紅媒 又是什麼恢復中天新聞台 我還是忽略一句話啊中天新聞台或任何媒體今天觸犯國安法 你用國安法辦它"},{"start":24903.061,"end":24919.67,"text":"但是有嗎沒有因為沒有辦法用國安法辦就用你的NCC東廠來辦新聞自由從今天開始謝謝大家謝謝好謝謝羅志強委員發言接下來我們請林國成委員請發言時代轉變完全不一樣"},{"start":24933.274,"end":24957.876,"text":"你看中天你認為是紅色電視台可是我看某些電視台它就是綠色電視台所以每一個人的看法完全不一所以不要以偏概淺把黃國昌過去的事就把它當成今天修法的目的"},{"start":24958.854,"end":24974.526,"text":"各位修法非常公正剛才羅志強委員已經講得很清楚經由法院判決那當然就是要恢復所以中天有沒有恢復我正式告訴我們各位"},{"start":24975.58,"end":25001.156,"text":"中天要恢復要經由法院之判決所以請你們不要擔心把所有法條看一看再來指責這個我特別拜託我們所有的同仁所以我是覺得這次的修法是明確規範新聞台只要有政府標案必須要把公開相關資料"},{"start":25002.95,"end":25030.136,"text":"把它公開透明這是一項台灣民眾黨非常注重的一個問題另外也就是黨政經核心的問題不是說要退出媒體嗎但是在這個部分確確實實還沒有辦法完完全全脫離真正的乾淨的媒體所以今天的有些法規"},{"start":25030.876,"end":25048.102,"text":"也是在規範這個部分那在換照的部分要兼顧程序正義所以NCC過去有沒有公正審辦有沒有關新聞台大家心知肚明"},{"start":25048.582,"end":25073.584,"text":"所以我們今天把所有的廣電華去把它修是在補足這裡要NCC對於整個問題程序不明標準不一救濟不足以及換照在這裡面是唯他獨尊所以這個部分是在修華"},{"start":25074.945,"end":25097.98,"text":"補足這裡也就是政治方向不要誤導專業的判斷所以今天我們修華主要的目的是在這裡還有另外一個就是季節政治力的介入守住健全的言論自由這就是媒體本來就是要做的所以我們今天修華我們跟國民黨修華"},{"start":25100.461,"end":25110.825,"text":"哪裡有什麼中天條款所以請你們把法條看清楚再來批評這樣的話才不會冤枉你是立法委員謝謝"},{"start":25119.946,"end":25137.346,"text":"本案保留條文僅宣讀院會所收各黨團版本再修正動議其餘的提案內容均列入公報紀錄進行處理的時候依序進行表決如果其中有一案通過我們就不再處理其他案衛星廣播電視法請宣讀第一條"},{"start":25138.186,"end":25159.177,"text":"第一條 為捍衛新聞自由 促進衛星廣播電視健全發展保障公眾視聽權益 維護視聽多元化開拓我國傳播視野之國際空間並加強區域文化交流 特制定本法宣讀完畢審查會條文通過 請宣讀第二條"},{"start":25159.841,"end":25184.972,"text":"第二条 本法用词定义如下一 卫星广播电视只利用卫星进行声音或视讯信号之播送以供公众收听或收视二 卫星广播电视事业只直播卫星广播电视服务事业及卫星频道节目供应事业三 直播卫星广播电视服务事业只直接向订户收取费用利用自有或他人设备提供卫星广播电视服务之事业"},{"start":25185.952,"end":25207.039,"text":"四 衛星頻道節目供應事業指自由或向衛星轉頻器經營者租賃轉頻器或頻道將節目或廣告經由衛星傳送至供公眾收視聽直播送平台之事業五 境外衛星廣播電視事業指利用衛星播送節目或廣告至中華民國管轄區域內之外國衛星廣播電視事業"},{"start":25208.98,"end":25232.667,"text":"六、衛星轉頻器,以下簡稱轉頻器,只設置在衛星上之通信中繼設備,其功用為接收地面站發射之上鏈信號,再變換成下列頻率向地面發射。其他類頻道節目供應事業,只利用衛星以外之方式,以一定頻道名稱之節目或廣告,傳送至公眾收視廳之播送平台之事業。"},{"start":25233.587,"end":25255.002,"text":"八 新闻及财经新闻频道 只以直播新闻 财经新闻等节目为主要内容制频道九 公务频道 只专以促销商品或服务为内容制广告频道十 内部控管机制 只含内部控管组织架构 人员编制 品质控管 作业流程及节目与广告直播规范等控管制度"},{"start":25256.103,"end":25273.261,"text":"11 节目 只依排定次序及时间由一系列影像声音及其相关文字所组成之独立单元内容12 广告 只问事业机关购团体或个人行销或宣传商品观念服务或形象所播送之影像声音及其相关文字"},{"start":25274.642,"end":25303.545,"text":"十三 贊助 指事業 機關購 團體或個人為推廣特定名稱 商標 形象 活動或產品在不影響節目編輯 製作 自主或內容呈現之完整情形象而提供金錢或非金錢之給付十四 置入性行銷 指為事業 機關購 團體或個人行銷或宣傳基於有償或對強關係與節目中呈現特定觀念 商品 商標服務或其相關資訊 特徵等之行為宣言完畢"},{"start":25305.376,"end":25312.631,"text":"照審查會條文通過第四條維持現行條文我們現在進行保留條文第五條請宣讀"},{"start":25314.073,"end":25340.291,"text":"民进党党团在书正动议国民党党团台湾民众党团共同所提在书正动议第五条政府其捐助成立制裁员法人及其受托人不得为下列行为但其他法律另有规定者不在此限一直接投资卫星广播电视事业二担任卫星广播电视事业之发起人董事监察人或经理人三以间接投资或其他方式"},{"start":25341.092,"end":25367.197,"text":"答 控制卫星广播电视事业之人士 财务或业务有下列情形之一者是为前项第三款所称之控制一 政府其捐助成立制裁员法人或其受托人个别间接持有卫星广播电视事业之股份与该事业一方型股份总数百分之一但政府其经货供应事业因自行或委托投信机构投资而持有之股份数不在此限二"},{"start":25367.737,"end":25394.939,"text":"政府即捐助成立制裁员法人及其受托人皆持有卫星广播电视事业之股份合计于该事业已发行股份总数1%但政府接近或供应事业因自行或委托投信机构投资而持有其股份数不在此限三 供应事业担任卫星广播电视事业之发起人 董事 监察人或经理人政党即捐助成立制裁员法人及其受托人不得为下列行为"},{"start":25395.399,"end":25415.782,"text":"一直接投资卫星广播电视事业二直接投资卫星广播电视事业三担任卫星广播电视事业之发起人董事监察人或经理人四以其他方式达控制卫星广播电视事业之人事财务或业务除法律另有规定为政府是拿不到捐助成立卫星广播电视事业"},{"start":25417.123,"end":25442.414,"text":"政党党务工作人员 政务人员及学任公职人员不得投资卫星广播电视事业其辈有二亲等以内之血亲之性亲投资统一卫星广播电视事业者其持有者股份何其不得于该卫星广播电视事业已发行股份总数1%政党党务工作人员及学任公职人员不得担任卫星广播电视事业之发起者 董事监察人或经理人"},{"start":25443.294,"end":25466.628,"text":"前二项所身政党党务工作人员、政务人员及选任公职人员之范围与本法实行性责定之违反第一项、第一款、第三项、第一款或第五项规定者其取得签股份无表决权主管经纬病毒令其限期处分借其不为处分者不得享有股东权利微信广播电视事业不得容许其行使表决权或享有股东权利"},{"start":25467.328,"end":25491.318,"text":"違反第一項第二款第三款第三項第二款至第四款或第六項規定者主管機關得令衛星廣播電視事業限期為下列行為一解除擔任董事監察人或經理人之職務二解除政府政黨及捐助資財團法人及其受託人對衛星廣播電視事業之控制宣讀完畢報言會我們現在進行處理"},{"start":25493.373,"end":25517.522,"text":"本條三個黨團所提的再修正動議條文均相同我們就無異議通過第五條 照三個黨團再修正動議條文通過我們現在進行保留條文第十條請宣讀民進黨黨團再修正動議"},{"start":25524.847,"end":25542.929,"text":"台湾民众党国民党党团台湾民众党党团共同所提在修正动议第十条申请经营卫星广播电视事业有下列情形之一者主管机关依附许理由不回其申请一违反第四条或第五条规定二申请人之同是监察人或申请人"},{"start":25544.811,"end":25563.285,"text":"为设立中公司其发起人有公司法第30条各款刑事之一或曾任卫星广播电视实验室董事监察人或经理人曾利用工作政治无关系犯罪经宣告有期徒刑上执行确定尚未执行完毕或执行完毕缓刑期满或赡免后尚未逾三年"},{"start":25564.205,"end":25574.951,"text":"3.申请人之营运计划有违反法律强制或禁止规定之余或对国家安全、产业整体发展、公共秩序或善良风俗有明显重大不利影响4."},{"start":25574.951,"end":25579.414,"text":"申请人之财务技术及执行能力明显不足以实现其营运计划"},{"start":25580.154,"end":25607.752,"text":"五 申请人因违反本法规定经撤销获废止卫星广播电视事业许可未于二年境外卫星广播电视事业执行公司或代理商申请经营卫星广播电视事业有前项第三环制第五环进行之因者主管机关应付具理由不会其申请卫星广播电视事业董事监察人等负责人之资格条件及其他管理事项之办法由主管机关定之宣诺完毕"},{"start":25610.974,"end":25636.882,"text":"請問院會本條照國民黨團台灣民眾黨團共同所提再修正動議條文通過有無異議請問本條照國民黨團台灣民眾黨團通過再修正動議條文通過有無異議沒有異議好我們第10條照國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團共同所提再修正動議條文通過請宣讀第11條"},{"start":25638.7,"end":25661.033,"text":"第十一條衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業分公司之執照有效期間為九年境外衛星廣播電視事業代理商之執照其有效期間以代理契約書所在代理權期間為準最長不得於九年宣讀完畢到審查會條文通過第十二條之一不予增訂請宣讀第十五條"},{"start":25665.253,"end":25692.14,"text":"第15條申請書及營運計畫內容於許可後有變更時衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業之分公司或代理商應向主管機關為變更之申請但第7條第1項第3條內容有變更者不在此限前項變更內容屬設立登記事項者應與主管機關許可變更後時得辦理設立或變更登記主管機關應於3個月內完成變更設立登記事項之審查"},{"start":25693.541,"end":25699.087,"text":"选读完毕照审查会条文通过我们现在进行处理保留条文第17条请选读"},{"start":25717.625,"end":25731.631,"text":"國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團共同所提在修正動議第17條主管機關應就衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業之分工私貨代理商所提出之營運計劃執行報告於該事業取得執照屆滿5年時辦理評鑑"},{"start":25735.633,"end":25760.917,"text":"衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業之分公司或代理商於辦理評鑑前三年內受裁判處分位於三次且累計罰還金額位於新台幣80萬元以上者免予評鑑第一項評鑑結果不合格者主管機關應令其限期改正衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業之分公司或代理商依第一項規定申請評鑑滿六個月後若主管機關人為就評鑑作成處分時視為評鑑合格"},{"start":25764.798,"end":25790.199,"text":"主管機關不得另為其他處分本法修正申請前已申請評鑑者一同本條之評鑑及免予評鑑程序審查項目評分基準及其他應遵行施行政變法由主管機關定之並因每五年檢討之宣讀完畢請問院會本條照國民黨團台灣民眾黨團共同所提在修正動議條文通過有無異議"},{"start":25791.516,"end":25807.268,"text":"沒有異議好我們第17條照國民黨團台灣民眾黨黨團共同所提在修正動議條文通過我們現在進行處理保留條文第18條請宣讀民進黨黨團在修正動議第18條維持現行條文"},{"start":25809.697,"end":25831.534,"text":"國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團共同所提在修正動議第18條衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業之分公司或代理商於執照期間屆滿前6個月應填據申請書及換照之營運計畫向主管機關申請換照主管機關受理前向換照之申請處審查其申請書及換照之營運計畫外並應審酌下令實行依營運執行報告"},{"start":25836.918,"end":25866.244,"text":"评鉴结果及评鉴后事改正情形二 违反本法之记录三 播送之节目及广告侵害他人权利之记录四 对于订户纷争之处理五 财务状况六 其他足以影响营运之事项主管机关对于新闻及财经新闻频道换照之申请应以准与换照为原则第一项之换照程序审查项目第二项之审查审酌标准评分基准及其他应遵行事项之办法由主管机关定之宣读完毕"},{"start":25868.032,"end":25876.756,"text":"我們現在進行表決民進黨黨團在修正動議維持現行條文現在有民進黨黨團要求記名表決贊成民進黨黨團在修正動議條文維持現行條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":25959.875,"end":25985.027,"text":"報議會報告表決結果出席委員108位贊成48位反對60位贊成者少數民進黨黨團再修正動議條文不通過我們現在開始進行表決國民黨團台灣民眾黨團共同所提再修正動議條文現在有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決贊成兩黨所提再修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":26067.935,"end":26087.524,"text":"報告表決結果出席108位委員贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第18條照國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團共同所提在修正動議條文通過我們現在進行保留條文第19條請宣讀"},{"start":26089.315,"end":26107.197,"text":"民进党党团在修正动议第19条维持现行条文国民党党团台湾民众党党团共同所提在修正动议第19条主管机关进一截调第二项规定宣查任申请人失财务状况已无法正常营运或申请人有改正之必要时"},{"start":26107.637,"end":26124.703,"text":"主管机关应先协助辅导改善具体说明待改正之审查项目内容并以书面通知申请人限期改正或补正前向限期改正或另限期补正资料期间主管机关应发给临时执照其有效期间为两年"},{"start":26125.223,"end":26153.175,"text":"借其未完成者得申请延长一次该事业于临时执照延长期间届满未完成改正或补正者得驳回其申请申请人现行改正或补正资料期间自本条修正通过之日起算经主管机关驳回证照申请至卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业之分公司或带领商于行政侦诵程序终结前或主管机关令为许可换照之处分前"},{"start":26153.815,"end":26175.967,"text":"人能依原执照继续于原频道行使权利如原频道已交由其他卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业之分公司或代理商使用主管经文应照其相关业者协调适当之补救措施不回换照申请之行政处分经撤销废止或因其他原因失其效力后主管经文对于申请人"},{"start":26177.548,"end":26203.827,"text":"回复原状及频道位置之义务卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业执分公司或代理商以第一项规定申请换照满六个月后主管机关仍未做成决定时是为许可换照主管机关不得另为其他处分该事业得进一第十六条第一项规定申请换发执照返返修正事情前已申请换照者一同宣读完毕"},{"start":26206.172,"end":26224.205,"text":"我們現在開始進行表決民進黨黨團在修正動議維持現行條文現在有民進黨黨團要求記名表決各位報告委員會我們開始進行記名表決贊成民進黨團維持現行條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":26300.347,"end":26301.087,"text":"現在有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決我們贊成"},{"start":26324.844,"end":26326.766,"text":"兩黨所提在修正動議條文請人贊成 反對 請人反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":26400.441,"end":26422.926,"text":"包委員會報告表決結果在場為108位贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第19條照國民黨團台灣民眾黨團共同所提在修正動議條文通過我們現在包委員會我們進入第20條第49條均維持現行條文我們現在進行保留條文第50條請宣讀"},{"start":26424.813,"end":26448.114,"text":"民進黨黨團再修正動議第五十條國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團共同所提再修正動議第五十條有效列各款執行之意者處心內逼二十萬元上二百萬元下罰款並立即限期改正進行不改正者等案子處罰一、政府其捐助成立制裁決法人或其受託人違反第五條第一項第一款或第二款規定"},{"start":26448.895,"end":26464.373,"text":"二 政黨其捐助成立制裁懟法人或其受託人違反第五條第三項第一款或第三款規定三 政府政黨違反第五條第四項規定四 政黨黨務工作人員 政務人員及學人公職人員違反第五條第五項規定"},{"start":26465.254,"end":26488.245,"text":"五政党党务工作人员及选任公职人员违反第五条第六项规定政府其捐助成立制裁员法人或其受托人违反第五条第一项第三块规定经另起限制改正借其不改正者处心台币二十万元受二百万元以下罚款并再另起限制改正借其人不改正者得按次处罚"},{"start":26489.005,"end":26515.621,"text":"政党其专注陈林轩参加法人或其受托人违反第五条第三项第二款或第四款规定经令其献其杆证借其不改证者处心乃逼二十万元上二百万元以下罚款并再令其献其杆证借其人不改证者得按次处罚政党党务工作人员政务人员其选任公职人员之配偶二薪等以内之写薪执行因侵违反第五条第五项规定者"},{"start":26516.081,"end":26544.893,"text":"就会经过应令致使投资于百分之一以上者限期改正进行不改正者除息价比二十万元以上二百万元以下罚款并得按次处罚卫星广播电视事业或其或他类频道节目公益事业有下令进行之一者除息价比二十万元以上二百万元以下罚款并令限期改正进行不改正者得按次处罚或废止其需可并注销其执政"},{"start":26545.413,"end":26566.85,"text":"一 容许违反第五条第一项第一款第三项第一款第五项或第六十四条第一项转用第五条第一项第一款第三项第一款第五项规定之人行使表决权或享有国有权利二 违反主管机关一第五条第九项或第六十四条第一项转用第五条第九项所谓之命令宣言完毕"},{"start":26568.483,"end":26586.03,"text":"會議會我們進行處理本條三個黨團所提再修正動議條文均相同我們就無異議通過第五十條照三個黨團再修正動議條文通過會議會第五十八條之一不予爭定"},{"start":26586.994,"end":26594.602,"text":"第66條之一維持現行條文報議會我們全案已經經過二讀現在國民黨團台灣民眾黨團分別提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":26605.134,"end":26621.807,"text":"第一條為捍衛新聞自由促進衛星廣播電視健全發展保障公眾視聽權益維護視聽多元化開拓我國傳播世界及國際空間並加強區域文化交流特制定本法第二條本法用詞定義如下"},{"start":26622.327,"end":26648.411,"text":"一 卫星广播电视只利用卫星进行声音或视讯信号直播送以供公众收听或收视二 卫星广播电视事业只直播卫星广播电视服务事业其卫星频道节目供应事业三 直播卫星广播电视服务事业只直接向订户收取费用利用自由或他人设备提供卫星广播电视服务之事业四 卫星频道节目供应事业"},{"start":26648.971,"end":26676.983,"text":"指自由或向衛星轉頻器經營者租賃轉頻器或頻道將節目或廣告經由衛星傳送至供公眾收視聽之播送平台之事業五 境外衛星廣播電視事業指利用衛星播送節目或廣告至中華民國管轄區域內之外國衛星廣播電視事業六 衛星轉頻器 以下整身轉頻器指設置在衛星上直通信中繼設備其功用為接受地面站"},{"start":26677.483,"end":26700.015,"text":"发射之上列信号再变换成下列频率向地面发射其他类频道节目供应事业只利用微信以外之方式以一定频道名称之节目或广告传送至公众收视厅之播送平台之事业八 新闻及财经新闻频道只以直播新闻 财经新闻等节目为主要内容之频道"},{"start":26700.535,"end":26729.885,"text":"九 购物频道 只专以促销商品或服务内容之广告频道十 内部控管机制 只含内部控管组织架构人员编制 品质控管作业流程及节目与广告 直播 规范等控管制度十一 节目 只依排定次序及时间由一系列影像 声音集集相关文字所组成之独立单元内容十二 广告 只为事业及广告团体或个人行销或宣传商品观念服务或形象"},{"start":26730.405,"end":26748.218,"text":"所播送之影像 聲音及其相關文字13 贊助 指示業 機關購 團體或個人為推廣特定名稱 商標 形象 活動或產品再不影響節目編輯 製作自主或內容呈現之完整其形象而提供金錢或非金錢之給付"},{"start":26748.878,"end":26759.936,"text":"十四 置入性行銷只為事業機關或團裡或跟人行銷或宣傳基於有成或對價關係與節目中呈現特定規定商品商標服務或前相關資訊特徵等之行為"},{"start":26764.062,"end":26790.897,"text":"第五條政府其捐助成立之殘留法人及其受託人不得為下列行為但其他法律另有規定者不在此限一直接投資衛星廣播電視事業二擔任衛星廣播電視事業之發起人董事監察人或經理人三以間接投資或其他方式達控制衛星廣播電視事業之人士財務或業務有下列其行之一者是為前項第三款所稱之控制"},{"start":26791.437,"end":26812.297,"text":"一政府其捐助成立制裁短法人或其受托人个别间接持有未经广播电视事业是股份与该事业已发行股份总数百分之一但政府基金或供应事业因自行或委托同性机构投资而持有之股份数不在此限二政府其捐助成立制裁短法人及其受托人"},{"start":26812.757,"end":26816.159,"text":"1.直接投资卫星广播电视事业2.直接投资卫星广播电视事业"},{"start":26840.992,"end":26864.415,"text":"三、擔任衛星廣播電視事業執法級人、董事監察人或經理人四、以其他方式達控制衛星廣播電視事業之人士財務或業務除法律另有規定外政府政黨不得捐助成立衛星廣播電視事業政黨黨務工作人員、政務人員及學任公職人員不得投資衛星廣播電視事業其背後二金等以內之血清之性侵"},{"start":26864.935,"end":26872.653,"text":"投资同一卫星广播电视事业者其持有性股份和其不得于该卫星广播电视事业一方型股份总数1%"},{"start":26874.798,"end":26902.86,"text":"政黨黨務工作人員及全任公職人員不得擔任衛星廣播電視事業持發期的董事、警察人或經理人且二項所稱政黨黨務工作人員、政務人員及全任公職人員之範圍與本法實行細則定制違反第一項、第一款、第三項、第一款或第五項規定者其取得之五份無表決權主管疾患病毒令其限期處分藉其不為處分者不得享用股東權利衛星廣播電視事業不得容許"},{"start":26903.32,"end":26925.843,"text":"其行使表決權或享有股東權利違反第一項第二款第三款第三項第二款至第四款或第六項規定者主管機關得令衛星廣播電視事業現行為下令行為一解除擔任董事監察人或經理人之職務二解除政府政黨其捐助之財團法人及訴訟人對衛星廣播電視事業之控制"},{"start":26928.171,"end":26950.229,"text":"第十条 申请经营卫星广播电视事业有项链情形之一者主管尽管应付具理由不怀其申请一 违反第四条或第五条规定二 申请人是董事监察人或申请为设立中公司其发起人有公司法第30条各款情形形式之一或承认卫星广播电视事业是董事监察人或经理人"},{"start":26950.729,"end":26972.316,"text":"曾利用工作之职务关系犯罪经宣告有期徒刑上执行确定尚未执行完毕或执行完毕缓刑结本或赦免后尚未逾三年三 专行人质营运计划有违反法律强制或禁止规定之余或对国家安全产业整体方针公共秩序或善良风俗有明显重大不利影响"},{"start":26972.996,"end":26999.082,"text":"四 申请人之财务技术及执行能力明显不足以实现其营运计划五 申请人因违反本法规定经这项莫非之卫星广播电视事业许可未逾二年境外卫星广播电视事业之分公司或代理商申请经营卫星广播电视事业有前项第三款是第五款情形之一者主管机会应付具理由不合情申请卫星广播电视事业董事监察人"},{"start":26999.642,"end":27023.611,"text":"等负责人之资格条件及其他管理事项之办法由主管机关定制第十一条卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业分公司之执照有效期间为9年境外卫星广播电视事业代理商之执照其有效期间以代理契约书所在代理权期间为准最长不得于9年"},{"start":27027.277,"end":27048.997,"text":"15.申请书及营运计划内容与许可后有变更时卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业之分公司或带领商应向主管机关为变更之申请但第7条第1项第3款内容有变更者不再次限请向变更内容处设立登记事项者应与主管机关许可变更后使得办理设立或变更登记"},{"start":27049.497,"end":27064.666,"text":"主管机关应于三个月内完成变更设立登记事项之审查必要时的延长三个月并以一次违宪前两项变更内容有第十条第一项第一款至第四款进行之一者主管机关应付具理由不回其申请"},{"start":27066.417,"end":27092.955,"text":"第十七条主管机关应就卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业职份公司或代理商所提出之营运计划执行报告于该事业取得执照届满五年时办理凭借卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业职份公司或代理商于办理凭借前三年内受裁罚处分位于三次及累计罚还金额位于新台币八十万元以上者名誉凭借"},{"start":27093.875,"end":27110.343,"text":"第一项评鉴结果不合格者主管机关应领其限期改正卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业这份公司或带领商以第一项规定申请评鉴满六个月后若主管机关仍未就评鉴作成处分时行为评鉴合格"},{"start":27110.843,"end":27125.593,"text":"居管机关不得另为其他处分本法修正实行前已申请评鉴者议同本条之评鉴及免语评鉴程序选择项目评分计准及其他依遵行事项执办法由居管机关定之并每5年检讨之"},{"start":27127.375,"end":27142.421,"text":"第十八條衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業職份公司或代理商於執照期間進門前六個月應填訊申請書及換照之餘計畫向主管機關申請換照主管機關受理前向換照室申請"},{"start":27143.121,"end":27163.221,"text":"除审查其申请书及换照之营运计划外并因选择下令失胜1.营运执行报告评鉴结果及评鉴后之改正情形2.违反本访之纪录3.播送之节目及广告侵害他人权利之纪录4.对于订户分针之处理5.财务状况6.其他属于影响营运之事顺"},{"start":27164.122,"end":27177.99,"text":"主管機關對於新聞及財經新聞頻道換照之申請應以準與換照為原則第一項是換照程序審查項目第二項是審酌標準評分基準及其他依遵行事項這辦法由主管機關定制"},{"start":27180.202,"end":27197.637,"text":"第十九条 主管机关进一前条第二项规定审查任申请人之财务状况已无法正常营运或申请人有改正这必要时主管机关应先协助辅导改正具体说明待改正之审查项目内容并以书面通知申请人限期改正或不正"},{"start":27198.257,"end":27220.535,"text":"其項限期改正或另一限期補正資料期間,除了經費依發給臨時執照,其有效期限為兩年,即其未完成者得申請延長一次,該事業與臨時執照延長期間屆滿未完成改正或補正者得不諱其申請,申請人限期改正或補正資料期間,自本條修正通過之日起算。"},{"start":27221.295,"end":27244.299,"text":"即主管机关补回换照申请之卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业之分公司或代理商于行政侦诵程序终结前或主管机关令为许可换照之处分前人的因缘执照继续原频道行使权利如原频道已交由其他卫星广播电视事业及境外卫星广播电视事业之分公司或代理商使用"},{"start":27244.719,"end":27258.876,"text":"主管機關依照其相關業準協調適當支補救措施不回換照申請執行證處分經撤銷廢止或因其他原因施行效力後主管機關對於申請人復回復原狀及平等位置之義務"},{"start":27260.698,"end":27281.296,"text":"衛星廣播電視世界及境外衛星廣播電視世界之分公司或代理商依第一項規定申請換照滿六個月後主管機關仍未作成決定時現為許可換照主管機關不得另為其他處分該事業得盡依第16條第一項規定申請換方執照本法修正事件前已申請換照者異同"},{"start":27284.622,"end":27306.865,"text":"第五十條 有項列各款期刑之一者處心臺逼二十萬元上二百萬元項罰款並令其涉及感染及其不感染者的案子處罰一 政府其捐助成立制裁團法人或其受託人違反第五條第一項第一款或第二款規定二 政黨其捐助成立制裁團法人或其受託人違反第五條第三項第一款或第三款規定"},{"start":27307.866,"end":27317.834,"text":"3.政府政黨違反第五條第四項規定是政黨黨務工作人員、政務人員及選任公職人員違反第五條第五項規定5."},{"start":27317.834,"end":27321.756,"text":"政黨黨務工作人員及選任公職人員違反第五條第六項規定"},{"start":27322.877,"end":27339.344,"text":"政府取其捐助成立资产权法人或其受托人违反第五条第一项第三款规定,经令其现即感染,借其不改正者储息奶皮二十万元以上二百万元相反还,并再令其现即感染,借其人不改正者得按次处罚。"},{"start":27340.044,"end":27355.913,"text":"政党其专注成立之财团法人或其受托人违反第五条第三项第二款或第四款规定,经令其限期改正,进行不改正者处信贷币二十万元以上二百万元下滑还,并在令其限期改正,进行人不改正者得案自处罚。"},{"start":27357.274,"end":27376.622,"text":"政党党务工作人员称为人员及全任公职人员之配偶二期内以内就写进执行清违反第五条第五项规定者出改机关应令致使投资于百分之一以上者现即可证见其不改正者除息内必二十万元以上二百万元以下罚还并得按次处罚"},{"start":27377.382,"end":27404.344,"text":"衛星、廣播、電視事業或他類頻道、節目、公益事業有項鍊請行之一者除信還比二十萬元上二百萬元下發還並令限期改正即其不改正者等案次處方或分指其需可並註銷其絕賬依容許違反第五條第一項第一款第三項第一款第五項或第六十四條第一項准用第五條第一項第一款第三項第一款第五項規定之人行事表決權或享有股東權利"},{"start":27405.945,"end":27423.17,"text":"2.違反主管機關議第五條第九項或第六十四條第一項全用第五條第九項所為之命令宣讀完畢報院會三讀條文已經宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正"},{"start":27424.123,"end":27450.332,"text":"現在有國民黨團依據立法院職權刑事法第11條規定提請將全案負表決我們現在進行全案表決贊成全案通過者請按贊成反對者請按反對棄權者請按棄權現在有民進黨團要求記名表決我們進行記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":27524.453,"end":27527.756,"text":"報告表決結果在場出席為108位贊成60位反對0位棄權48位"},{"start":27538.647,"end":27560.234,"text":"贊成者多數全案表決通過我們現在做以下決議衛星廣播電視法第一條第二條第五條第十條第十一條第十五條第十七條至第十九條及第五十條條文修正通過"},{"start":27564.298,"end":27593.093,"text":"我們現在進行繼續處理黨團協商所作之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容通過附帶決議一項國家通訊傳播委員會應於六個月內廣泛徵詢閱聽大眾專家學者及廣電業者之意見並提出修法版本宣讀完畢委員會依照協商結論我們照案通過我們進入討論事項第四案"},{"start":27598.766,"end":27622.731,"text":"討論第1項,報告院會討論事項第4案政黨集體附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第34條條文修正草案本案經第4會期第11次會議決定自委員會抽出近乎二讀,並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案現已完成協商,請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":27626.414,"end":27628.438,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間115年1月29日星期四下午3時30分地點紅樓302會議室協商主題"},{"start":27636.775,"end":27666.004,"text":"政黨及其附帥組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第34條條文修正草案施行結論一保留條文第4條第34條二本案院會處理時廣泛討論由各黨團各推派一人發言每人發言三分鐘主條討論時均不發言保留條文依各黨團版本提出先後順序進行處理三讀後各黨團推派一人發言"},{"start":27666.804,"end":27693.819,"text":"協商主持人韓國瑜江啟臣、協商代表羅志強、林佩翔、傅坤祺、徐宇貞、游昊、牛許廷、柯建平、鍾嘉斌、陳培宇、張啟凱、陳昭之、黃國昌宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有依、無依、本案後續依協商結論處理報告院會現在進行廣泛討論請各黨團推派之代表發言首先請游昊委員發言"},{"start":27705.779,"end":27720.029,"text":"各位全國的好朋友關心救國團以及公益團體的好朋友那在今天也是一個重要的時刻公益不能等相信我們大家都看到了不當會"},{"start":27721.47,"end":27746.787,"text":"夾著這個轉型正義之名行政治清算之實那大家過去在我相信許多的不管是民進黨的民意代表也曾參與救火團也曾積極的曾經認同救火團肯定救火團所以許多的民進黨委員心裡也想支持救火團但是我們看到了為什麼這些公益團體救火團"},{"start":27747.708,"end":27764.188,"text":"卻要被走上清算抄家滅族甚至在許多的經費動用支出上需要受到限制大家的工作權益不保那所以在這裡今天國民黨與民眾黨要還救國團公道公義不能等"},{"start":27764.848,"end":27792.783,"text":"過去救國團也是防疫的模範生救災的急尖峰大家許多在座的所有好朋友跟我們在電視機前關心救國團的好朋友懷念西安縱走懷念許多救難成長課程但是現在硬是要套上了一個政治色彩意識形態這是非常不公平的將救國團的許多的員工逼得走上街頭官逼民反"},{"start":27793.303,"end":27811.506,"text":"那今天不當條例的修正是要還救國團公道公義不能等所以在今天除了我們許多的好朋友我們在今天還了救國團公道透過不當條例的修正我們可以讓知道公義團體的權益是可以被保障的"},{"start":27811.886,"end":27835.084,"text":"更不能夠受到意識形態的迫害那在這裡也呼籲希望我們在座許多民進黨的委員那可以的話也要一起支持救火團因為大家在地方上也參與救火團甚至掛著救火團的職務幹部那這樣子坦白講救火團過去許多的在地方上公益協助的政治人物今天來講"},{"start":27835.945,"end":27864.945,"text":"許多民進黨的委員其實可以還他公道還甚至可以來表達支持就算你這段時間去洗手間也沒有關係那所以說我們大家全國人民看在眼裡當我們看到為社會公益付出的許多人還受到這樣子影響我們看到今天走到如此他們的努力之下我們可以讓他們的公道再現也確保了未來公益團體可以好好的為社會做公益"},{"start":27865.445,"end":27889.59,"text":"所以今天我們救護團的夥伴們大家一起站起來吧當還齊公道的時候也是大家也是要跟社會大眾告訴大家洗刷了不白之淵好不容易今天在立法通過三讀通過之後我們可以好好的來讓我們的公益組織救護團還齊公道 加油好 謝謝游委員"},{"start":27892.116,"end":27914.529,"text":"下一位請張祺凱委員發言請張祺凱委員發言今天是這個會期最後一天"},{"start":27919.571,"end":27948.618,"text":"而且談的是舊國團請大家情緒可以輕鬆一點轉型正義不應該是勝利者也不應該是執政黨的片面正義更不能淪為清算或者是鬥爭應該要尊重歷史的真相也要尊重多數民眾的情感"},{"start":27950.478,"end":27976.908,"text":"救火團對很多台灣民眾來講就是一個甜美回憶跟公義的總和很多台灣人從小學的時候 國中到大學一直到成年很多人都參加過文藝營 戰鬥營 夏令營北橫縱走啊甚至在那邊交到一輩子志同道合的好朋友"},{"start":27978.274,"end":28001.081,"text":"大家想起救火團是一個快樂的象徵直到現在還有人在下面叫這個時間點救火團還辦了非常多開心歡樂的活動更重要的救火團辦了很多的公益在疫情期間救火團率先站出來"},{"start":28002.793,"end":28031.185,"text":"他把建壇青年活動中心作為防疫旅館在去年丹納斯風災的時候還有花蓮災情嚴重的時候他們跟產值超人一樣在救災啊大家回想一下你印象中的救火團是做了非常多的公益你從歷史的角度去看救火團是行政院在民國41年開始推動它隸屬在哪一個單位"},{"start":28033.581,"end":28054.21,"text":"國防部歷史在國防部到了民國18年他轉型作為公益的民間團體到了民國78年人民團體組織法成立以後他登記為全台灣第一個社團法人現在不當黨產委員會過度的擴權"},{"start":28057.731,"end":28075.537,"text":"把救火團列為不當黨產現在他的資產已經全部被凍結了每辦個活動包括他的活動執行業務你要做公益喔事先都要送到不當黨產委員會去審核以後才可以執行"},{"start":28076.858,"end":28098.517,"text":"這對整個公益的推動是一個很大的傷害所以民眾黨跟國民黨今天我們提出修正案我們把曾經隸屬於國家者就是救國團以前一開始是隸屬於國防部不再實現希望以後讓救國團不要受到不當財產委員會"},{"start":28109.51,"end":28115.145,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝詹委員下一位請范雲委員發言"},{"start":28127.657,"end":28146.07,"text":"國民黨提案要修改不讓黨產條例的附隨組織定義新增曾經隸屬於國家者不在此縣要為救國團婦聯會開後門聽到這個消息之後才短短的兩三天就有100多個不分黨派的民間團體連署反對為什麼"},{"start":28148.872,"end":28170.52,"text":"首先這根本就是修法干預司法除了大法官釋字793號早就認定不讓黨產回歸國家是台灣成為真正民主的重要過程祝國團自己提起的是否是黨產的訴訟已經在台北高院敗訴目前是最高行政法院審理中"},{"start":28171.34,"end":28194.39,"text":"然而 國民黨不尊重司法用禁覆二讀的方式還不敢在委員會討論而且還讓條文回溯敢在會期的最後一天通過想要改變法院判決的結果剛剛有號宣稱救國團還有他沒講到的婦聯會是公益團體還說很多人年輕的時候參加過活動受惠於救國團"},{"start":28195.43,"end":28221.423,"text":"每個人的青春回憶不同但是同樣的事實是救國團長期壟斷學生合法跨校活動與情治機關合作幫黨國監控校園師生剛剛講到歷史請看看救國團自己在1982年出版的本團重要文獻直接寫道中國青年反共救國團在黨內為本黨最重要清運機構"},{"start":28224.024,"end":28244.301,"text":"舊國攤曾經是國民黨最重要的青年機構也因此因為特權身份免費取得國家土地及補助如果今天這個提案通過國家至少損失從北到南的黃金地段兩萬坪建物三千坪土地其中包含海景第一排的墾丁青年活動中心連同婦聯會國家損失超過400億"},{"start":28248.544,"end":28268.077,"text":"沒有人在改變誰的青春回憶我們守護的是公平正義屬於國家的還給國家想做公益的權貴團體請你好好回歸做正常的公益團體我想提醒民眾黨你們的前主席柯文哲在擔任台北市長時支持不當黨產回歸國家"},{"start":28270.419,"end":28286.505,"text":"只允許救國團經營青年活動最近8年然後我也想提醒現在不敢坐在現場的黃國昌主席今天是你擔任立委的最後一天你想起來了嗎你曾經大力支持不讓黨產回歸國家剛剛民眾黨說什麼救國團是國防部的所以不應該把財產回歸國家"},{"start":28294.048,"end":28303.177,"text":"多麼的荒謬 多麼的可笑 多麼的沒有邏輯讓全民一起監督是誰在護國產 誰在盜廣場我們堅決要反對舊國產 舊黨產要互聯會來付權貴謝謝范雲委員的發言"},{"start":28324.466,"end":28344.975,"text":"報院會我們現在進行逐條討論本案請宣讀院會所收各黨團版本再修正動議其餘提案內容均列入公報記錄進行處理的時候依序進行表決如果其中一案通過我們不再處理其他案現在進行保留條文第四條請宣讀"},{"start":28346.411,"end":28370.419,"text":"国民党党团再修正统一第四条本条例用词定义如下一政党只于中华民国七十六年七月十五日前成立并依动员勘论实行人民团体法规定备案者二附随组织只独立存在而由政党实质控制其人事财务业务经营之法然团体或机构曾由政党实质控制其人事财务业务经营"},{"start":28370.959,"end":28399.111,"text":"前分已相当对价转让而脱离政党是指控支持法人、团体或机构但成立属于国家者不在此限三、受托管理人只受前二款所称政党附随组织之委托而管理或收纳财产而管理之第三人四、不当取得财权指政党以违反政党本质或其他背于民主法治原则之方式使自己或其附随组织取得之财权宣读完毕"},{"start":28401.107,"end":28414.599,"text":"歡迎歡迎我們開始進行表決國民黨團所提再修正動議條文現在有民進黨團要求記名表決贊成國民黨提再修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":28491.938,"end":28511.033,"text":"謝謝各位委員謝謝我們要報告表決結果出席108位委員贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第4條照國民黨黨團在修正統一條文通過報告委員會我們進行處理保留條文第34條請宣讀"},{"start":28513.345,"end":28519.25,"text":"我們現在表決國民黨團在修正動議條文現在有民進黨黨團要求記名表決贊成國民黨團在修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":28616.001,"end":28636.737,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝 報告表決結果在場出席委員108位贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第34條照國民黨黨團在修正動議條文通過報告 全漢經過二讀現在國民黨團體繼續進行三讀全院會有異議有異議我們要繼續我們要表決"},{"start":28647.435,"end":28651.277,"text":"我們現在進行表決針對國民黨黨團體繼續進行刪讀現在民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決時間一分鐘贊成 按贊成反對 按反對現在開始"},{"start":28733.51,"end":28740.774,"text":"第四條本條例用詞定義如下依政黨至於中華民國七十六年七月十五日前成立並依動員勘論使其人民團體法規定被按準而附隨組織使獨立存在而由政黨實施控制其人事"},{"start":28762.245,"end":28789.873,"text":"财务或业务经营之法人、团体或机构曾由政党实质控制其人士财务或业务经营且非以相当对价转让而脱离政党实质控制之法人、团体或机构但曾隶属于国家者不在此限三、受托管理人只受钱款所称政党附随组织之委托而管理或受让财权而管理之第三人四、不当取得财权指政党已违反政党本质"},{"start":28790.313,"end":28806.227,"text":"或其他背于民主法治原则这方式是自己或其附随组织取得制裁者第34条本条例自公布日施行本条例修正条文素自本条例公布施行之日起适用宣读完毕"},{"start":28808.778,"end":28831.682,"text":"報院會三組條文已經宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正現在有國民黨團依據立法院直宣新設法第11條規定提請將全案負表決我們現在要進行全案負表決贊成全案通過者請按贊成反對者請按反對棄權者請按棄權民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":28907.893,"end":28910.395,"text":"我們現在做以下決議政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第34條條文修正通過"},{"start":28933.342,"end":28944.362,"text":"我們現在進行完成立法後程序發言由各黨團推派代表發言每位委員發言兩分鐘首先請張其凱委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備"},{"start":28960.356,"end":28983.528,"text":"恭喜救火團也希望救火團經過今天修法三讀之後不隸屬於任何政黨更不隸屬於不當黨產委員會再沒有黨產委員會凍結他所有的資產要他所有的活動連他要去做公益受到影響這些"},{"start":28985.413,"end":29005.47,"text":"限制解除之後可以為台灣的民眾辦更多歡笑快樂歡樂的這個活動可以有更多更多的公益的這個活動民進黨的立委剛剛還是有意見我要提醒一個沒法否認的事實當"},{"start":29007.853,"end":29024.957,"text":"救國團轉型為公益的民間團體之後他的很多他的資產跟財源是來自於他辦活動甚至是民間人士的捐款你現在全部把這一錢收歸為不當黨產這樣合理嗎"},{"start":29028.413,"end":29052.367,"text":"更重要的你把他化為不當黨產之後對於他推動公益照顧很多的弱勢者這對台灣真的是好的嗎我們不希望已經變成一個公益團體的救火團已經受到大家肯定的救火團包括很多民進黨立委都去參加活動擔任重要幹部的救火團"},{"start":29054.209,"end":29082.651,"text":"可以有更大的這個動能多幫我們社會創造一些公益嗎所以透過今天的這個討論不只是三讀齊凱剛也明確的講了我們把歷史還原民國41年是由行政院籌組救國團那時候就是隸屬於國防部他是依法成立的準行政機關不是任何單位的附屬組織"},{"start":29083.712,"end":29104.279,"text":"謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請沈伯陽委員發言游浩委員請準備"},{"start":29130.505,"end":29156.505,"text":"這個2018年齁那時候這個楊偉忠委員齁因為意外所以離開了這個不當黨產委員會了齁我就是接任他那是我的第一份跟政治有關的工作當時國民黨的良心國民黨很多人也認為黨產問題要處理所以他本來是一個社會共識剛剛我聽到張祺凱委員尤華委員一直在講什麼公益"},{"start":29157.386,"end":29184.477,"text":"大家知道什麼叫公益嗎請問救國團以前的工作是什麼41年根本也不是行政院41年是國民黨的中央改造委員會所成立的它是隸屬於黨耶而當時他們做的是什麼做的是校園監控啊做的是異議分子的監控啊我那給大家聽啊寧靜小組啦 春風計畫啦校園安定工作彙報啦青年思想教育啊目的是什麼"},{"start":29185.823,"end":29210.668,"text":"國民黨的文件寫得很清楚啊要防止陰謀分子爭取拉攏然後多帶動學生社團減少不正當的政治活動減少不當的言論防範學生集結勢力反對國民黨這叫公義喔再來做公義就算就算這個叫做公義好了做公義辦活動要搶地吧"},{"start":29211.924,"end":29228.184,"text":"結果救國團怎麼做跟教育部邀一個場地然後那個地就變成救國團的改了名字就變救國團的請問我們現在允許任何一個社團來立法院辦一個活動然後就取得立法委員的地嗎就取得了立法院的財產嗎不可能啊"},{"start":29229.532,"end":29255.812,"text":"這就是不當黨產啊這不就侵占國家的財產嗎那請問侵占國家的財產應不應該拿回來法院也判啦 也拿回來啦現在這個提案就是他們要把本來的民脂民膏全部拿到國民黨的口袋裡就只是為了你們接下來的選舉而已這個人民怎麼可能可以接受 謝謝好 謝謝沈博洋委員的發言接下來我們請游浩委員請發言"},{"start":29272.815,"end":29291.821,"text":"不幸真理換不回,不容公義淨成灰在今天大家是一起關注、矚目就果然這次終於得到公道公義團體得到公道那其實許多的公義人可以繼續大步向前走"},{"start":29292.808,"end":29298.759,"text":"剛才聽到辦活動就可以占領一個地那讓我想到了太陽花學運"},{"start":29299.99,"end":29310.218,"text":"但是許多的民進黨委員過去在學生時代還積極地參與救護團的活動如果說今天射入校園我相信民進黨的手伸得更進去"},{"start":29323.627,"end":29342.913,"text":"所以在這裡我們要很肯定國民黨在座的每位立委還有民進黨的立委黃國昌總召還有民眾黨的立委共同國民黨和民眾黨支持讓救護團還其正義還其感到那我們看到了"},{"start":29343.493,"end":29371.815,"text":"大家可以好好的繼續做公益的時候未來都能夠得到保障所以在這裡我們希望能夠繼續的來做努力來讓這個條例通過之後還來看清楚到底誰在支持公益團體時間暫停拜託各位委員同仁尊重發言委員權益好嗎"},{"start":29380.718,"end":29382.139,"text":"時間暫停好 謝謝時間暫停沒關係 時間暫停"},{"start":29408.646,"end":29432.676,"text":"我們現在沒辦法發言,時間暫停各位委員同仁再一次拜託大家拜託各位委員同仁,尊重發言人權益好嗎"},{"start":29444.52,"end":29470.414,"text":"沒有時間暫停我會通知你好謝謝再一次拜託大家尊重發言委員的權益好嗎好拜託不要對王宏偉委員動手動腳不要對王宏偉委員動手動腳"},{"start":29474.315,"end":29492.831,"text":"不要攻擊國民黨委員我們都回座位好嗎不要推黃宏偉委員吳思宏你不要推黃宏偉委員謝謝"},{"start":29505.08,"end":29531.163,"text":"好 謝謝 拜託各位委員請回座好嗎我們先讓發言委員發言完畢好嗎 拜託各位委員請回座拜託你為什麼要罵老黃威委員"},{"start":29545.779,"end":29574.294,"text":"把握嗓門大我可能沒意見啦好 謝謝好 再一次拜託大家好 大家請回座我們發言委員還有1分24秒"},{"start":29576.67,"end":29587.695,"text":"拜託尊重發言委員權益再次拜託大家請回座謝謝謝謝謝謝賴會員委員請回座陳玉珍委員請回座謝謝大家謝謝還有1分24秒好我們時間繼續好謝謝院長"},{"start":29598.072,"end":29622.186,"text":"不信公理換不回不容正義盡成灰我們看到了公益團體要奪回公道要讓自己能夠重返正義的時候那在這裡我們看到了許多少數的民進黨委員的動作但是他們不尊重議事發言畢竟少數立委而這些委員"},{"start":29623.446,"end":29637.812,"text":"過去曾經也參加過救國團的活動尤其在青年的時候那我相信現在的救國團它的許多團委會有國民黨有民進黨也有民眾黨"},{"start":29638.832,"end":29663.494,"text":"大家不分顏色的做公益而在今天我們更是看到了意識形態來針對公益團體的一個狀況所以在今天這個條例的通過不管是我們救國團的夥伴們還有全國關心公益的夥伴們大家可以更有堅定的信心當這條不當條例修正通過之後"},{"start":29664.014,"end":29684.049,"text":"大家可以繼續快樂的做公益繼續做一個健康的公益人所以在這裡國民黨的委員民眾黨的委員我們黨團三團跟總召繼續一起為救火團跟公益團體加油好謝謝謝謝遊浩委員的發言"},{"start":29686.516,"end":29705.516,"text":"一道黨團共事請各黨團幹部現在立即移下到議場後方主席休息室我們要進行後續討論事項溝通另外本次會議沒有委員提出臨時提案我們不進行臨時提案之處理我們現在休息"},{"start":32687.287,"end":32710.24,"text":"報告院會我們繼續開會現在有黨團共識如下一本次院會延長會議開會時間二後續討論事項立法院組織法修正案要事法修正案要害救濟法修正案均依議事規定處理三處理完畢之後我們即散會報告院會本次院會後續就以黨團共識進行"},{"start":32713.976,"end":32729.189,"text":"我們現在依照黨談共識進行討論事項第五案立法院組織法第32條、第33條及第35條條文修正草案紐許廷委員等提案經第四會期、第15次會議決定請複二讀並由國民黨團負責召集寫商報言會"},{"start":32733.837,"end":32754.552,"text":"本案因協商已經超過一個月沒有辦法依照黨團共事由院會定期處理因此於本次會議我們提出討論現在進行廣泛討論以登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先我們請沈伯陽委員發言每位委員發言時間三分鐘沈伯陽委員請發言"},{"start":32773.464,"end":32779.647,"text":"各位同仁關於這一次助理費的修法大家要去看這整個歷史的脈絡"},{"start":32781.041,"end":32804.872,"text":"大家應該還記得這個高雄安案利用人頭的助理然後到時候再請助理費把它繳回到自己的口袋這個在我們的法律上就叫做侵占就叫做詐領助理費為什麼 因為你根本沒有這個助理的事實結果呢 卻用這樣的方式詐領國家所補助的助理的費用"},{"start":32805.953,"end":32834.264,"text":"那高雄灣的案件呢當時進行到一半的時候結果法院去函給立法院問立法院說請問這一個助理費的性質到底是什麼這個助理費到底是國家的還是立法委員的後來呢我們的立法院的回覆說這個是立法委員的那法院就說那既然按照立法院都自己講說這個是立法委員的錢那立法委員怎麼會自己侵占自己的錢自己騙自己的錢呢"},{"start":32835.071,"end":32849.569,"text":"所以到最後呢在這一個案子的這一個部分就變成無罪這是立法院目前給法院的見解而這完全違背了一直以來最高法院的見解所以呢在這個狀況之下呢"},{"start":32851.844,"end":32869.259,"text":"國民黨提出了修法提出了兩個不同的版本但這兩個版本殊途同歸他們的目的都只有一個不管他上面定的再怎麼華麗他的定性就只有一個就是他要把助理的費用定性成是立法委員的費用"},{"start":32870.06,"end":32892.71,"text":"那這樣立法委員再怎麼去侵占自己助理的費用再怎麼去侵吞叫他繳回這個人頭助理都不會有犯罪的認定啊這個就是這個法案最主要的陽謀那我必須要說呢我們在協商的過程呢國民黨不斷的說這個就是為了助理好啊讓他們有更多的家籍啊"},{"start":32893.908,"end":32914.316,"text":"就算我們用最好心的狀態去判斷國民黨委員的內心其實要解決這個爭議非常簡單直接一個修正動議直接就寫在法條上面說即使現在法條修成這個樣子但如果你今天是虛報人頭你今天如果是叫助理繳回"},{"start":32915.336,"end":32934.383,"text":"如果你今天有這些狀況仍舊回歸貪污治罪條例處理仍舊回歸刑法公務員登載不實公務員登載不實罪處理如果能夠把這個定在那邊那簡單啊那因為就表示你已經表達這個立場這根本就不是為了助理費的除罪化這樣不就解決了嗎"},{"start":32935.222,"end":32962.667,"text":"但是從協商開始一直到現在我提出這樣的意見沒有得到任何的回應沒有人敢把侵占助理費事犯罪寫在法條上面連這件事情都不敢那很明顯這個法條這一個修法是為了什麼我認為是昭然若揭謝謝謝謝沈伯陽委員的發言接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員發言莊瑞雄委員發言"},{"start":32965.135,"end":32970.102,"text":"莊瑞雄委員發言不在場我們請張雅玲委員發言"},{"start":32984.028,"end":33003.85,"text":"我想從這一路以來我們都非常清楚可以看見國民黨不僅是從黨產裡面要搶400億回到自己的口袋裡從國家搶400億回到自己的口袋裡那現在這一路搶錢還要搶到他們身邊的助理費"},{"start":33005.111,"end":33032.262,"text":"我們立法院的助理我們所有政治人物的助理他們都是辛辛苦苦在幫我們查詢法案在幫我們做許多的選民服務可是他們的所作所為在他們的老闆眼中在國民黨的眼中在民眾的眼中都只是免洗筷用完就丟所以即便是國民黨的助理也好或者是民眾黨的助理也好大家站出來"},{"start":33033.783,"end":33048.501,"text":"抗議他們依然不為所動那甚至我們想最近大家也可以看到民眾黨接連的一些案例從高鴻安到劉淑冰甚至不讓他的助理來簽這一個連署的抗議"},{"start":33050.151,"end":33070.138,"text":"而這次的修法呢不管是陳昱珍也好 劉許廷也好都只是接棒把這個法案寫得好像是更華麗讓他好像是讓我們的助理呢可以得到更好的照顧可是事實上完全不是因為在我們的現行的立法院的組織法上面呢明確寫著這筆錢呢"},{"start":33072.119,"end":33098.881,"text":"是要由立法院支應給公費助理的薪資而不是給立法委員的補助我們是這樣子寫的但是他們現在的修法呢這已經是把它寫到就是說這是一個補助費補助 那補助代表什麼意思補助就代表是說立法委員可以決定他到底要不要給他的助理"},{"start":33100.855,"end":33125.067,"text":"這個法案的修法其實是讓所有的薪資過去是由立法院支付然後來保障這次助理的薪資的部分呢全部回到國民黨自己的委員手上來決定所以他到底要給他多少完全不知道完全是看老闆今天心情好不好我想這也是完全的違反所謂的勞權"},{"start":33127.148,"end":33145.338,"text":"因為一直以來我們都非常的強調所謂的勞權的概念但是我想還有幾點就是說它在這個裡面雖然薪資上面寫得很漂亮我簡單唸給大家聽就是每一個立法委員每年的稅費5倍之公費助理工資集一"},{"start":33147.459,"end":33166.036,"text":"勞動法令的規定應由雇主負擔之相關費用但是我想許多人的見解不管是我們的民進黨的委員或是在民進黨的見解都說這是看得到領不到的一個條文所以我希望今天所有的人民還有我們所有的助理都要出來抗議這一個法案 謝謝"},{"start":33167.076,"end":33186.28,"text":"好 謝謝張雅琳委員的發言報告委員會 我們可能會要用餐現在訂便當來不及所以我們就訂麥當勞跟披薩好不好好 我們就等一下晚上我們就吃漢堡跟披薩好 我們現在請總務部門立刻開始去訂我們接下來請吳思瑤委員請發言"},{"start":33193.829,"end":33204.559,"text":"謝謝院長永遠關心我們下一餐吃什麼但是我相信在場有良知的立法委員你訂再豐盛的料理我們都吃不下"},{"start":33205.575,"end":33227.538,"text":"因為今天在過年前研會的最後一天院會立法院再一次通過三大惡法而這三大惡法相較於2024年12月20號的限訴法選罷法跟裁劃法今天的三大惡法有過之而無不及"},{"start":33228.459,"end":33236.429,"text":"今天通過了中天萬年的特權條款就是圖利國民黨友好的媒體"},{"start":33237.529,"end":33259.851,"text":"今天通過了黨產復辟的條款就是讓國民黨能夠拿400億的國產變黨產肥自己的黨而現在要通過的第三大惡法就是讓助理費除罪化"},{"start":33261.445,"end":33284.658,"text":"我相信在場沒有幾位委員可以理解立法院組織法32 33 35條他具體所規範的內容未來透過牛許廷委員這一個進覆二讀跳過委員會專業討論的條款到底立法委員"},{"start":33285.698,"end":33302.381,"text":"每一年我們會因此包山包海從國庫圖利自己拿到五百萬六百萬還是七百萬的所謂補助費用到底現場哪一個人算得出來"},{"start":33303.923,"end":33331.087,"text":"牛許廷的條款是包山包海的腐爛的將立法院對於助理的各類補助費用都適同於對立委個人的補助美其名的要給助理專業加擠資深加擠甚至連文康健檢費連在職進修撫慰金全部都變成立法院"},{"start":33332.087,"end":33352.821,"text":"給予立委個人的補助費用包山包海不一而足這個條文通過之後我要問問在場的韓國瑜院長周萬來秘書長你們誰可以算出來未來一年進入每一個立委的所謂補助費用是600萬是700萬是750萬誰算得出來"},{"start":33357.424,"end":33377.636,"text":"如此粗糙不義而絕自肥圖利自家的立委更要為自己涉及太汙的立委來脫罪粗糙無比再一次的突襲修法韓院長訂最好的料理沒有人吞了下好 謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員發言 郭育晴委員請準備"},{"start":33401.824,"end":33418.687,"text":"主席各位同仁今天我在這個地方要提出一個很嚴肅的問題如果今天這些補助款都算是不是原來進入助理的這個戶頭這樣的程序而算到是我們每一個委員的補助款"},{"start":33419.636,"end":33447.892,"text":"那請問我們這個實質收入如果當作是薪資那就是要課稅那我請問經由我們的戶頭我們再撥給助理那我們的所得是算多少剛剛吳士耀委員講說要算不清楚這個造成一個危險喔就是我們每個月的收入從現在的薪資十幾萬將近二十萬有可能一下跳升到七十幾萬"},{"start":33449.794,"end":33472.972,"text":"這個所得稅繳下來不得了到時候要撥給助理的助理仍然要給他如果是有認真在做的立委但是問題是因為進到我們戶頭的總共就是這些錢就是一個月七十幾萬那我們就要用七十幾萬課所得稅因為薪資所得不可能不課稅"},{"start":33474.482,"end":33496.598,"text":"那在這樣的狀況之下我們的所得稅幾乎每一個人都會變成40%的計算額度所以我在這個地方很嚴肅的講說這個東西要釐清我舉個例子我們的補助費比如說我們的服務處的補助一個月的租金兩萬塊那個是要拿我們的房租的契約讓立法院直接把那個錢撥給房東"},{"start":33498.9,"end":33523.939,"text":"不是經過我們立法委員之後再付給房東欸凡是進入我們的戶頭我們講不清楚的全部都是我們的薪資欸那這樣的情況之下當然助理他領到多少薪水他也是要繳稅變成兩個人課稅我要先課一遍然後給助理的助理再課一遍這所得稅算下來喔如果照目前算法最寬廣來講每一個人幾乎都要繳到40%的所得稅"},{"start":33525.049,"end":33547.924,"text":"那不得了這樣我們要一個月我們領的薪水拿光拿來繳所得稅可能都不夠所以我在這個地方很嚴正的提出我的要求如果你這個東西硬要通過的話我助理的費用我不要進入我個人的戶頭你們要怎麼處理你們處理你們要怎麼要照這個法律你們去處理但是不可以進我的戶頭"},{"start":33548.933,"end":33559.002,"text":"我繼續領這個了解因為這個進到我的屋頭之後這個捨得稅就不得了造成這個將來這個稅捐上面的這個爭執啊會搞不清楚狀況"},{"start":33560.29,"end":33585.107,"text":"所以我在這個地方再一次的講這一個問題一定要釐清因為這涉及到我們每一個人的權益問題如果今天是確實因為我賺到的錢我繳稅不要緊但是我的助理費用經過我木頭撥給助理造成我變成要繳所得稅的話因為你算不清楚你沒有講清楚哪一部分是助理的哪一部分是立委的那變成我事實上沒有賺這個錢就要繳這個稅"},{"start":33588.544,"end":33589.966,"text":"好 謝謝吳秉瑞委員發言 謝謝接下來我們請郭玉清委員發言 吳麗華委員請準備"},{"start":33607.393,"end":33624.133,"text":"主席各位同仁很遺憾在這個會期的最後一天我們看到了藍白是怎麼樣在運用他們的暴力多數通過一些真正的自肥的一些法案那就在這個時候國民黨的立委"},{"start":33625.875,"end":33642.287,"text":"領頭找了28個同黨的立委簽了聯署要推動所謂的助理費除罪化他們要做什麼呢我在這邊用最簡單的方式簡單說就是他們要把原來只能拿來請助理的錢"},{"start":33643.208,"end":33666.693,"text":"改成民代自己可以統籌來運用而且記得不用減負核銷不用任何收據白話一點講就是我要把原來發給助理的錢直接變成民意代表自己可以拿自己決定怎麼用他們是要用這樣子的一個方式放進自己的口袋當中"},{"start":33667.373,"end":33685.761,"text":"所以以後呢 就算這些立委啊 他沒有要請助理但是呢 助理的薪水 助理的加班費 助理的勞健保都可以名副其實 名正言順的放進這些國民黨的自己名袋的口袋中"},{"start":33686.881,"end":33714.33,"text":"那麼根據明年立法院跟各地議會的一個預算全國差不多有400億的公帑這些潛在的損失那麼將會變成第一 不用查第二 查不到嘛再來 你也追撥回來的錢這等於就是幫國民黨所有的這些民意代表準備了一個最合法而且是最隱私的小金庫"},{"start":33715.47,"end":33737.437,"text":"更誇張的是這樣子的一個修法不僅僅是對人民不公平對所有的助理更是傷害記得嗎去年年底12月12號的時候所有的包含國民黨自己的委員的助理他們群起都在抗議"},{"start":33738.297,"end":33760.579,"text":"大家都站出來了因為每個人都很清楚一旦這筆錢變成民道自由可以取用的錢助理的工作會沒有保障他們的薪資沒有辦法穩定所以我要說得很清楚反貪污不是把錢拿回去給自己管制度的改革也不是要拿掉監督"},{"start":33762.701,"end":33789.71,"text":"這些都是人民的公帑這些都是大家的人民的錢不是民意代表的私房錢這一條線不能退我最後總結啦幫他們總結一句啦錢沒有變不見只是變成國民黨這些立法委員要自肥最喜歡的樣子可恥啦"},{"start":33791.035,"end":33795.8,"text":"好 謝謝各位請委員的發言接下來我們請吳麗華委員發言林月琴委員請準備"},{"start":33806.496,"end":33825.565,"text":"大家好這幾天助理們熱烈討論有助理跟我說這是要幫某些因為助理費涉貪的政治人物解套嗎也有助理跟我說看起來福利跟家計好像不錯但法條的意思是不是有法源依據但老闆一樣可以不給"},{"start":33827.154,"end":33849.492,"text":"還有助理跟我提對立法委員而言委員你真的會比較喜歡這個修法嗎我笑了一笑魔鬼藏在細節中法條裡面提到能夠補助給助理們專業家級資深家級在職進修等等我站在希望公費助理朝向穩定長期專業任用的立場乍看之下也覺得不錯"},{"start":33850.433,"end":33863.544,"text":"但仔細看條文就會發現無論是陳玉珍引起軒然大波的版本或修改後的牛許廷版本都是將助理費在法律裡面定調為給立委的補助款這會有什麼問題原先"},{"start":33865.506,"end":33892.666,"text":"公費國費助理的投保單位是立法院所以雖然國會助理不是公務員但至少薪資的流向透明可以受到檢視如果有立委用人頭詐領助理費還能夠用貪污罪來治理限制立委必須把這筆錢用在公費助理上但是修法之後這些薪資都變成一整包給立委的補助款公費助理的投保單位變成立委本人"},{"start":33893.206,"end":33919.057,"text":"立委要怎麼用要給予哪些人福利變成了立委的自由新政法條洋洋灑灑的這些助理福利立委一樣可以不遵守一樣都可以不給牛許廷一直說助理新自由立法院直接撥款給助理本人所以並不會有問題但他其實沒有說出口的是如果這筆被認定為補助立委的經費沒有全數發出剩下的錢到底算誰的"},{"start":33920.117,"end":33945.438,"text":"是不是變相鼓勵立委準決助理薪資好讓他們省下補助款將每個月沒有發完的助理費補助變成是中保私囊有了補助款就應該有核銷機制請問在這次修法核銷機制是什麼根本沒有請領依據是誰說了算更嚴重的是立委將這些補助金額中保私囊也沒有辦法再依貪污罪來法辦"},{"start":33946.619,"end":33971.277,"text":"看起來我們好像把立法院助理的待遇福利法治化但實際上還是沒有脫離N幾制也就是說助理能不能領多少終究是看立委老闆覺得你夠不夠格我想說在這個充斥帶頭文法的立法院這些人會怎麼運用這批補助款將王全上司監督機制"},{"start":33972.057,"end":33994.58,"text":"之後變成辦公室各憑本事我也變成了一個人的協會我不明白這樣的修法到底是為了誰但是我知道我想用陳玉珍說的一句話請丟掉那支要飯的碗這個我不要好謝謝吳麗華委員的發言接下來我們請林岳勤委員發言李昆城委員請準備"},{"start":34006.172,"end":34031.059,"text":"本會期拉到最長期限但總預算還卡在程序今天整天的表決證實藍白兩黨研會不是為了審案是為了找後路立法委員工作就是要好好的提案好好的審案但國中兩黨把會期拉長卻拿來替政黨勢力跟特定團體的利益來修法開脫甚至替強佔國家的財產找出口"},{"start":34033.44,"end":34055.355,"text":"現在據高度爭議甚至被質疑助理廢除罪化效果的立法院組織法我昨天就一再強調不能只在黨團協商由少數人來處理牽涉到納稅人錢的法案國民黨說他們版本是最完整的版本那既然是最完整版本為什麼不能在委員會好好討論好好審查"},{"start":34057.256,"end":34069.481,"text":"偏要進付二讀便宜形式越黑箱越像躲再躲答案我也講白了現在的版本只是陳玉珍版本換了包裝而已"},{"start":34071.135,"end":34089.074,"text":"國民黨你們想要的就是助理費除罪化我剛剛已經提到這就是在為助理費開脫為何首先國民黨的版本將所有的公費助理的相關薪資費用餘率定性為立法委員的補助費用"},{"start":34089.975,"end":34118.404,"text":"白話文就是說這些錢立法委員自行運用的錢他們愛怎麼用就怎麼用想拿去洗頭就洗頭想拿去買衣服就買衣服現行法制就已經對立法委員助理費的運用監督不足的情況下要如何確保我們的助理的權益那在我的版本當中我有提出應該建立助理名冊且對三等親配偶等資訊都應該要揭露也增加會期津貼子女教育補助"},{"start":34119.384,"end":34132.579,"text":"我們的結婚補助等等除了增加我們的助理的福利待遇以外更進一步的為了防範立法委員利用人頭來貪污的司法法制的一個制度上那我就覺得奇怪了那國民兩黨"},{"start":34134.682,"end":34160.256,"text":"國中兩黨提出來的版本給予助理的福利待遇我認同我也是參考歐美日韓的助理費的制度但我研究了一輪之後發現這些國家不管是不是統籌運用助理費都有明確的監督跟聘用的制度不讓助理費成為貪污的來源之一唯獨我們的組織法當中沒有提結果你們只操統籌運用其他的不參考"},{"start":34161.116,"end":34186.593,"text":"只願意把立法委員的權力放大卻沒有任何的監督機制怎麼看都是自肥無限擴權無限自肥助理待遇應該要法治化不為助理費解套我覺得這是我們的兩黨應該要謹慎以上謝謝林月琴委員的發言接下來我們請李坤澄委員發言林楚瑩委員請準備"},{"start":34198.374,"end":34207.919,"text":"來 謝謝主席今天是這個會期的最後一天那但是呢除了住宅法之外沒有通過任何的這個扶國立民的一些法案"},{"start":34208.775,"end":34233.254,"text":"我看了這一個剛開始通過這個黨產復辟的條案然後呢要通過這個中天復台的這一個條案然後現在呢又要審查這個助理費要把它除罪化的一個法案那我是覺得說在這個會期的最後一天其實真的要留給我們的民眾一個好的印象不要讓民眾認為說這個立法委員在自肥自己"},{"start":34234.392,"end":34261.212,"text":"我現在手上呢只有一個劉許廷的法案但我也不確定說這是不是一個最後的一個法案那搞不好等一下要表決的時候桌上又突然出現了修正動議再修正動議會修正怎麼樣我們也不知道不過這也是立法院的一個日常了每次要到投票之前我們才知道等一下我們要投票的到底是什麼樣的一個法案我看了一下劉許廷的這個法案"},{"start":34261.972,"end":34271.485,"text":"最大問題就是在於說他把這個助理的費用變成立委的補助費用那剛剛我們很多同仁講過啦那這個"},{"start":34272.878,"end":34301.658,"text":"你要來增加我們助理的福利跟他的待遇我覺得都沒有什麼問題但是就在現有的現行條文下面做修改就好了但是一個最大的一個區別牛許廷跟一個現行的條文最大的區別就是在於說他把這一個助理費用變成立法委員的補助費用好啦 立法委員的補助費用那請問怎麼用 怎麼核銷 怎麼規範用不完的怎麼辦"},{"start":34302.799,"end":34328.932,"text":"是不是就跑到了立法委員的口袋裡面是不是就變成這樣子 那你說要助理費跑到這個立法委員自己的口袋裡面那不是就犯法嗎 貪污自罪條例啊很多國民黨立委就這樣被抓啦如果按照劉許廷的版本 不會因為這個是立委自己的補助費用如果是自己的錢 怎麼算是貪污呢那所以呢"},{"start":34329.984,"end":34352.301,"text":"這個版本完全沒有交代這筆錢除了給助理 啊他列了很多好像說對助理很好這個助理這個資深的也有加擠專業的也有加擠再次進修的費用什麼等等這些都有出但是呢如果沒有用咧這筆錢到底最後是跑去哪裡咧回到國庫嗎"},{"start":34354.318,"end":34382,"text":"沒有我看到這個版本裡面沒有所以我們剛剛也有我們同仁提到了那如果這筆錢未來成為我們立委的個人的薪資的話那以後我們所要繳的所得稅可能會比現在多很多那不管怎麼樣我們期待能夠給助理更好的待遇跟條件我們都支持但是我們堅決反對把助理費除罪化"},{"start":34388.151,"end":34392.827,"text":"好 謝謝李昆城委員發言接下來我們請林柱英委員發言李博義委員請準備"},{"start":34409.946,"end":34431.394,"text":"各位立法院的同仁我想今天我們可以站在這裡我們背後有一群非常優秀的助理協助我們就是不論是民進黨國民黨或者是民眾黨我現在的發言想要代表我辦公室的主任來念以下這些文章因為對他們來說現在修的法令對他們的影響非常的大"},{"start":34433.174,"end":34439.54,"text":"其實這一次立法院的組織法修正案提到的是要提升基層的待遇增加專業加級"},{"start":34442.128,"end":34466.433,"text":"他們心裡其實很期待的是我們都知道國會助理的薪資結構長年僵化如果修法的初衷是為了改善我們的勞動條件我相信沒有任何一個政黨或一個黨團或是任何一個助理會反對但是依照牛許廷的版本我們希望他是利益良善本席也相信朝野立委都願意支持提升助理的待遇然而牛許廷的條文當中"},{"start":34467.273,"end":34485.875,"text":"用補助費的字眼替代了原本法條內容立法院因每年編列每一位立委一定數額之助理費及其辦公事務預算這樣的寫法其實突生了法律上對於助理費的定性的爭議"},{"start":34487.536,"end":34507.084,"text":"當立法院的法治局的內參研究報告都可以拿來作為解釋依據更遑論今天的法案落筆的條款根本就直接把它定性為立委自己的小金庫如果真的是要提升助理的待遇為出發點"},{"start":34508.735,"end":34537.874,"text":"我想不會有助理去爭執這些文字而是這個文字直接的就讓立委可以擁有這一筆錢魔鬼藏在細節裡當我們攤開國民黨牛許廷的版本後我們看到的是一個極度危險甚至於可以說是掛羊頭賣狗肉的條款那就是將公費助理的薪資獎金等八項費用定性為就是給立委的補助"},{"start":34539.035,"end":34560.061,"text":"大家可能會問 發錢有差嗎 有差 差異非常大最高法院長期以來的穩定見解助理費就是國家編列給立委 聘用助理的專款這一筆錢不是立委的薪水 更不是立委的私房錢如果你將這筆錢挪作他用 就是貪污 就是詐領"},{"start":34561.241,"end":34581.668,"text":"然而藍白陣營這次的修法企圖透過立法院貸給己付以及將費用轉為立委薪資的一部分徹底顛覆了這個法律邏輯一旦這個法案通過這筆錢的法律屬性變得模糊就真的變成立委的實際補助所以"},{"start":34582.708,"end":34594.695,"text":"本人在這裡代表本辦公室的立委以及所有立法院辦公室的助理以及代表所有的同仁助理們請你們高抬貴手謝謝林祖英委員的發言接下來我們請李博義委員發言李博義委員請發言徐富奎委員請準備"},{"start":34622.05,"end":34647.6,"text":"謝謝 今天是1月30號這個會期的最後一天那在去年度的這個會期 研會的時候這個時間可能到更晚的時間我們正在做表決大賽 挑燈夜戰為了去年度的預算 正在努力國民黨跟民眾黨在去年的這個時候上演的是比賽刪除預算 比賽凍結預算"},{"start":34649.361,"end":34659.895,"text":"那今天國民黨跟民眾黨他在給台灣民眾上演的是什麼第一個他們要表決通過衛星廣播電視法他們會為中天電視台開後門第二個"},{"start":34662.95,"end":34688.841,"text":"他們剛剛修正不當黨產條例自己講說不當條例我也認為是不當條例把救國團他在做的公益講成我在做公益我就可以侵占這個建物我在做公益我在辦活動有人參加過這個活動我就可以合法佔有這個國家的土地國家的建物這樣子包裝"},{"start":34689.901,"end":34717.375,"text":"那現在在修什麼現在其實是為了幫某些委員來託罪託什麼罪託助理費不當使用的罪好現行條文是什麼現行條文的助理費是由立法院編列預算編列預算代表這是國家的他要改成什麼他要改成補助立委的費用也就是說助理們不要被騙了"},{"start":34718.704,"end":34743.292,"text":"寫得再好聽你有再多的家籍你有可能都領不到為什麼因為這會變成是補助性質看你老闆要不要領我們背後一大群優秀的助理們這幾年來都直接收到立法院的薪資是國家的預算走路有方"},{"start":34744.583,"end":34764.57,"text":"從今天這個修法如果通過以後叫做補助立委就是看你老闆看你的委員他要不要給你這個補助你說你碩士畢業博士畢業說你經過律師高考等等檢察官高考等等對不起"},{"start":34765.723,"end":34794.907,"text":"這是補助給立委的你不一定領得到所以這個就是今年度國民黨跟民眾黨要送給台灣的禮物你透過除罪話你要跟全台灣人民講你跟你的不當黨產一樣你說救國團在辦活動辦得這麼好但是他竊佔國土你不講法院判決的你不講你要透過修法來把他合法化對不起"},{"start":34795.885,"end":34809.197,"text":"民眾黨最對不起台灣人民眾黨最對不起過去他自己的主張他也跟著國民黨幹了一樣的事謝謝李博義委員的發言接下來我們請徐富奎委員發言范雲委員請準備主席各位同仁"},{"start":34821.758,"end":34829.447,"text":"我想我們今天現在是這個會期最後一天的會議那很遺憾這過去這兩年以來"},{"start":34830.083,"end":34855.238,"text":"我想我們看到國民黨跟民眾黨一直在做這樣子違憲亂紀的一個法令的處理那我想我們這個地方的背景很混淆尤其當我們現在今天又必須要研會的時候我想我們所有的助理群各辦公室不管是國民黨民進黨民眾黨的助理群我想現在在看著螢幕看看我們這些他們口中的老闆"},{"start":34855.984,"end":34863.982,"text":"到底是在幫他們爭取福利還是在陷他們於不義所以根據這個牛許廷委員提出這個版本"},{"start":34865.396,"end":34887.172,"text":"寫得很好聽基於這個立法委員要行使這個職權立委的公費助理是一個很重要的一個基石所以為了提高招募的一個誘因必須鼓勵這個公費助理要持續進修深造或是取得國家證照那能夠增加這樣子未來對於立法委員"},{"start":34887.951,"end":34906.908,"text":"問政的一個貢獻那我請問各位立委同仁我們這兩年開好開滿我們的這個所有的工會助理有時間去上課去進修嗎有時間真的好好靜下來思考我們地方的這個鄉親的建設的狀況嗎那尤其我要特別強調的是"},{"start":34908.689,"end":34936.37,"text":"我們像我們區議員來講我們有國會辦公室我們有地方的服務處我們的助理同仁在台北負責的工作是法案的一些處理研究還有針對一些議題的一個討論但是我們地方的助理我們必須要跑行程針對服務案件的處理工作性質不一樣我們的這個時間工作也不一樣那這樣不一樣的基礎上面針對未來以後這樣的一個公費的補助的"},{"start":34936.772,"end":34954.758,"text":"而補助款的一個發放包含未來有所謂的一個專業佳績資深佳績甚至一些年終獎金在職進修結婚補助生育補助這些理理口口這麼多不一樣的項目到底要用什麼樣的一個基準點讓大家覺得公不公平"},{"start":34955.478,"end":34968.325,"text":"我的同仁非常的認真我也很喜歡他們跟他一起工作為了地方打拚但是我很擔心今天這樣的一個惡法修了之後我跟我的同事的互信基礎沒有啦"},{"start":34969.295,"end":34998.027,"text":"他會覺得說老闆你應該要給我多少錢但是你怎麼給我這麼少這時候我們怎麼去論述怎麼去講我認為未來相互猜忌是會發生非常嚴重的一個問題那這個問題真的我們必須要修這樣的一個惡法嗎造成我們老闆立委跟我們助理同仁之間的這樣的一個不信任感嗎我想真的要三思守慮了那甚至未來剛剛我們幾位委員講的未來我們要面對"},{"start":34998.735,"end":35004.5,"text":"可能是高額的一個這個我們的一個薪資的結構我們到時候這些相關的費用怎麼"},{"start":35026.806,"end":35052.912,"text":"剛剛劉許廷立委好像很不滿意覺得民進黨的委員沒有認真讀他的法條說實在的我真的沒有想到國民黨跟民眾黨就這麼的可恥把一個完全沒有在立法院的委員會認真討論的版本今天就要拿出來表決就在我們這個會期的最後一天如果這麼清白為什麼急著要表決"},{"start":35053.852,"end":35068.359,"text":"如果有这么多这么好的权益为什么不能够在委员会好好认真的讨论我看了这个法条如果我没有读错的话有两个核心的问题第一个他把内容模糊化"},{"start":35069.339,"end":35089.687,"text":"過去立法院編制是從預算支應給立委助理的薪水他把它修成改成地位形同辦公室費用的立委補助費用可能很多立法院外的人聽不懂這叫什麼意思我們當過立委跟立委助理的都知道"},{"start":35090.487,"end":35118.538,"text":"地位形同辦公室費用的就是助理買了多少文具直接從立委的薪水扣掉剩下沒有用到的就是立委的薪水他把助理費過去從有明確用途限制的公費變成和文具地位相等讓立委有政治裁量權的灰色地帶他等於是把重要的人事費跟補貼彈性運用的辦公室費用在法律上"},{"start":35119.358,"end":35147.759,"text":"放在同一條線上很糟糕的是還拖大家下水這是第一個核心問題第二個核心問題我想我們幾位懂法律的都已經在協商會所講過我看到的是把司法責任變成政治特權過去為什麼會有助理費案是因為有可核對 可舉證 可審查的公款未來如果再有任何的案子"},{"start":35148.851,"end":35173.117,"text":"他只要說他不是貪污 就是解釋不同就沒事了所以這根本就是把一個司法責任變成是政治特權你說 我在幫助理增加他的福利如果真的要處理助理的權益跟結構問題的話為什麼不是提高助理薪資的透明度為什麼沒有建立助理勞動權益的法制化"},{"start":35174.017,"end":35195.965,"text":"劉許廷的助理費修法不是反貪腐他是把貪腐合法化行政化集體化我想陳玉珍是真小人我要大聲告訴桃園的選民劉許廷就是個偽君子羅列一堆助理看得到其實很難吃不到的福利因為未來的立委可以合法不要聘用這麼多的助理"},{"start":35196.405,"end":35214.792,"text":"我想這是藍白集體墮落的開始這個案子如果通過不只是助理勞權的悲歌也是國會問政品質的再度懸崖式下降的開始藍白墮落不要拖我們大家下水好謝謝范議員的發言接下來我們請蔡議員發言陳廷飛委員請準備"},{"start":35234.246,"end":35262.604,"text":"主席各位同仁現在是1月30號也就是在這一個法定的會期在延會延到最後一刻2月1號是另外一個會期的開始那在這一個預算的會期內我們沒有審到任何預算總預算連副委連進入討論都沒辦法討論更何況討論到了現在最後的一刻已經過了6點"},{"start":35264.5,"end":35289.908,"text":"已經用研會在延長時間的時間結果我們現在在處理這一案叫做立法院組織法也就是在處理助理費這件事情那助理費我想我們任何一個民意代表我們心理事實上都很知道國家給我們民意代表不管是立委不管是議員給我們有辦法去聘請助理這件事"},{"start":35290.916,"end":35308.07,"text":"那給助理的錢不可能會是立委或是議員薪資的一部分如果給他的就是薪資的一部分呢那就會進入剛剛所想的那等於這個民意代表這個立委的薪資忽然間超級膨脹膨脹的是不是要繳稅"},{"start":35312.58,"end":35332.985,"text":"甚至再講個更極端的我們也知道說如果有債務還會被扣薪三分之一那未來如果按照劉許廷的這個版本他說立法院編列公務預算編列給立法委員補助費用立法委員補助費用這個補助費用的定義是什麼"},{"start":35333.985,"end":35354.659,"text":"如果解釋起來他真的是立委的薪資的一部分那如果有債務要被扣薪三分之一結果立委我們本來的薪資然後加上助理的一個薪資加起來扣薪三分之一敲詭就要沒有發錢給助理這樣這跟法律這個變得很好笑很極端的然後這麼極端的狀況我們現在在這一個法定會期在延長時間敲詭六點的時間快要處理這案"},{"start":35365.126,"end":35381.4,"text":"說白的就是為了整個法律的解釋讓他盡量模糊化這個模糊化的結果有利於將來因為助理費涉案的人他可以脫罪事實上就是為了這樣的一個目的我們嚴格去看"},{"start":35382.577,"end":35391.964,"text":"牛許廷的這個版本他把它包裝說我要擴大很多對於助理的一個福利意思是說你如果讓他做得越好那就應該讓他越多錢包裝了這樣的一個結果事實上"},{"start":35396.941,"end":35418.595,"text":"錯的關鍵就是第2款他32條第2款跟第3款第4款把他模糊的一個結果就是我剛剛講的立法院每年以公務預算編列下列立法委員補助費用這個補助費用公美情策第4款第2項第2款至第8款的補助費用由立法"},{"start":35433.667,"end":35438.609,"text":"好 謝謝蔡議員發言 謝謝我們接下來請陳廷飛委員發言王世堅委員請準備"},{"start":35447.802,"end":35476.562,"text":"在立法院這個會期的最後一天居然我們在討論這個集爭議的案子國民黨把它包裝說我們是要幫我們的立委助理來爭取我們的薪水還有福利我相信沒有人會反對可是真的是如此嗎"},{"start":35478.144,"end":35500.709,"text":"國民黨 你的修法真的是如此嗎為什麼一個修法出來之後 大家的解讀都不一樣助理的解讀不一樣所有不同黨派的立委所解讀的也不一樣這叫做很失敗的修法"},{"start":35501.974,"end":35523.261,"text":"一個修法是要讓大家清清楚楚了解你到底要做什麼你的目的是什麼你的用意是什麼但是你卻是顛三倒四掛羊頭賣狗肉讓所有的助理更不安心"},{"start":35524.82,"end":35553.476,"text":"讓我們未來整個助理費變得更沒有辦法透明公正美其名你說我們會增加依照不同的學歷會增加可是要怎麼增加一個表面的數字真的可以增加嗎最後不是都掌控在立委的手上嗎"},{"start":35554.793,"end":35580.44,"text":"你把它當成是補助費那最後誰來合批所有相關助理的預算所以如果一個修法是修得亂七八糟修得讓人民沒有辦法信心修的是讓助理莫名其妙請問這是什麼修法我們反而希望的是"},{"start":35582.079,"end":35609.408,"text":"我們沒有辦法省的預算你們趕快來討論怎麼省我們反而是希望我們地方被擋的建設你們趕快來省我們反而是希望我們地方一直被虧空的部分從財化法從預算的部分你們趕快來面對事實"},{"start":35611.138,"end":35630.707,"text":"可是不是你們卻用所謂的假的增加助理的預算跟福利實質來進行除罪化的動作這人民無法接受我們一定要看清楚國民黨的真面目這才能讓我們大家能夠事實認"},{"start":35638.114,"end":35651.486,"text":"好 謝謝陳廷飛委員的發言接下來我們請王世堅委員發言王世堅委員發言王世堅委員發言不在場接下來我們請陳俊宇委員發言黃婕委員請準備"},{"start":35676.55,"end":35696.441,"text":"主席 各位同仁今天是我們議席會議的最後一天讓人感覺非常危險的又是一個用人手、投手在企業、交手的議事規定我們現在並不是在議場來實施、來審議國家的綜議上是為了很多方有正義的法案在進行這個表決的大戰"},{"start":35704.676,"end":35728.745,"text":"針對目前我們在討論的這項立法院組織法的修法如同我們之前很多位立委、同仁所說的我們的立場非常明確我們支持國會組織的管理要發展化跟他們基本的保障經過反對任何遭到改革之名事實是獨立自己的這種組織法的修法行為"},{"start":35732.386,"end":35737.544,"text":"各方的助力是我們立法院議事運作當中不可欠缺的人員"},{"start":35739.602,"end":35750.527,"text":"他們用優秀專業的地齡來協助我們他們應該要享有合理的薪資和福利這點我相信是沒有分別大家都應該要有的共識不過我們看到中興大樓、青島大樓、報告欄、藍天堂一定都沒有應徵的功課"},{"start":35765.934,"end":35778.112,"text":"這兩年國會的亂象已經走遭多少阻力各位你們知道不然我們的修法提案從阻力費定義是這個補助款"},{"start":35780.038,"end":35798.556,"text":"這個基本上是逃逃的做法可是我們立委真的要照顧我們的助力是不是應該要直接來推動各個助力的專法或是建立一個可以咕咕噹噹制度化的這個管理保障的機制這是正確的做法在這裡"},{"start":35799.465,"end":35827.97,"text":"我們要活躍我們所有的立法黨人不然中央政府的綜藝省還要卡在我們的聽術委員會一天也要不省有關到我們立委主席的利益甚至參照到這個讀取法議律的修法所要負責議題之後就要共行來進行標判這種非常粗魯的做法我們要如何向我們的選民來交代"},{"start":35829.244,"end":35841.482,"text":"我們及時提升國會助理的這個寬約但是我們要修復年齡的這種整理環境機率透過修復的助理費變成立委的收金口的這種狀況如果要擁抱委員長"},{"start":35846.192,"end":35858.661,"text":"替我們北京議員在心的這些同仁因為助理會的問題讀罪法來做修法這不是道理在自己什麼樣子才是道理請問大家"},{"start":35861.511,"end":35862.392,"text":"接下來請黃婕委員報告 陳秀寶請準備"},{"start":35892.609,"end":35907.656,"text":"立法院的各位同仁沒錯我相信今天要審查的這個法案比晚餐吃什麼更加重要那所有的國會助理也更關心自己的福利自己的薪資待遇更甚於等一下要吃什麼"},{"start":35908.436,"end":35926.669,"text":"所以我在這邊想要表達的是真的很遺憾今天是預算會期的最後一天了但是我們的總預算今年的總預算到現在一塊錢都還沒有審但是立法院卻要強行通過這些立委自肥的法案立法院的藍白多數"},{"start":35927.409,"end":35948.614,"text":"準備要讓中天復台準備要讓這些不當黨產回來了現在還準備要讓這個貪污的助理廢除罪化非常非常的遺憾那我也相信現在所有的國會助理一定都有在看立法院的直播我要告訴這些助理們拜託你們不要被國民黨騙了"},{"start":35949.574,"end":35976.222,"text":"不要被牛許廷發起的這個法案騙了他裡面這些巧立名目包裝說要幫你照顧這些助理的福利照顧你的待遇等等但是關鍵是在於第32條第二款裡面寫到的他原本把立法院編列預算支應支這個本來應該要專款專用的助理費改成了立法委員的補助費用"},{"start":35977.342,"end":35996.707,"text":"這一個詞是關鍵拜託所有的助理們請你們去跟你們這一些無良的老闆抗議讓他們知道說你不會接受你的薪資福利要被老闆沒收你不會接受你這些無良的老闆把你的薪水放到他的口袋"},{"start":35997.387,"end":36017.193,"text":"所以我的立場非常的清楚我們很支持照顧國會助理的待遇但絕對不支持這一些無良的慣老闆準備要把助理費貪污除罪化準備要把這一些一年680萬放到自己的口袋準備要把這680萬變成個人的小金庫"},{"start":36020.834,"end":36046.226,"text":"所以拜託所有的助理如果你有在看直播請你也跟你的老闆來表達說我們絕對不接受你們這種技術性的除罪化這個錢本來就是要給你們的本來就是應該要正正當當的由立法院直接支應給助理而不是還要轉一手最後要不要給你還要看你老闆的心情"},{"start":36047.166,"end":36071.053,"text":"還要看老闆今天是哪算拿去洗頭還是他今天是不是要多給你一塊錢所以我要告訴大家如果藍白真的坦蕩蕩沒有要替誰開後門沒有要幫自己自肥那請你們立刻馬上就把這個法案裡面立法委員補助費這一條直接刪掉拜託大家謝謝"},{"start":36073.116,"end":36076.821,"text":"好 謝謝黃婕委員的發言接下來我們請陳秀寶委員發言 王振旭委員請準備"},{"start":36087.932,"end":36104.257,"text":"主席 各位立委同仁其實我現在站在這邊發言我心情很沉重我覺得說在這邊我要為我的助理為各位辛苦的助理跟大家一起打拚的助理們發言發聲我的心情是很重很沉痛的"},{"start":36105.339,"end":36119.317,"text":"我們立院組織法第32條有規定立法委員的助理費是由立法院編列依其一勞基法所規定的相關費用是編列了立委的薪資"},{"start":36120.558,"end":36135.715,"text":"牛許廷委員的這個版本看起來好像提升了很多的福利裡面洋洋灑灑的列了十多種加緊與補助但是他都不是助理薪水他叫做立法委員補助費用"},{"start":36136.576,"end":36164.466,"text":"他都不是助理能領到的薪水他是立法委員補助費牛許廷委員這個版本雖然看起來好像是提升的福利但其實是包裹著私心的糖衣沒有在根本上來解決公費助理這個法制化的問題尤其這個版本其實是國民黨他們為了挽回這個這段時間持續被社會所抨擊的緩兵之際"},{"start":36166.227,"end":36188.262,"text":"去年的12月陳玉珍提出的這個公費助理費直接撥於立委作為統籌運用的時候那個時候大家為了他的棉檢據核銷這個部分我想不只是助理不只是我們真心對待助理的委員們還有社會大眾都非常不能接受"},{"start":36189.162,"end":36217.901,"text":"導致當時很多公會助理都群起反對甚至必須為了捍衛自己的權益在立法院的門口抗爭要求陳玉珍委員一定要撤案民進黨團也為了保障助理的權益因此也提出復議後來陳玉珍委員說邀請助理公會來討論條文當時所參與討論的助理公會是不是真的代表所有助理的聲音是很有疑問的"},{"start":36219.242,"end":36242.734,"text":"而且也沒有跟工會助理們妥善的來溝通那今天牛許廷委員的這個版本也沒有在委員會經過討論是淨富惡毒在昨天跟今天的這個協商是根本是過水過個形式你們就要倉促的處理幾百位助理工會重大權益這個法案真的對助理們非常的不公平"},{"start":36243.955,"end":36271.656,"text":"請國民黨民眾黨的委員們看看你們身後支持你們的助理他們到現在都還在辦公室待命你們到幾點他們就到幾點他們都比你早到比你晚走你們這樣的所作所為對得起他們的付出嗎不要為了立委自己的私心來倉促修法來損害到我們助理的權益助理們絕對值得更好的對待更多的尊重不要用這麼粗心"},{"start":36279.093,"end":36282.456,"text":"主席各位同仁國人同胞首先我要感謝我的助理們"},{"start":36308.53,"end":36322.761,"text":"在我過去這兩年進入到國會感謝他們的幫助讓我在擔任這個委員的期間可以把我的表現讓其他關心的人都能夠得到肯定"},{"start":36323.772,"end":36346.888,"text":"今天我們國民黨的黨團將立法組織法修正案的部分要淨附二讀並且試圖在預算會期的最後一天強行闖關剛剛很多委員都表達了起起不可的想法民進黨團的同仁口口聲聲說為了要增加助理的福利"},{"start":36347.585,"end":36364.341,"text":"可是我們擔心的社會所看到的可能是他們要將助理費變成立委補助費這是大家共同擔心的部分這不只是名詞的改變這是法律定性的失守"},{"start":36365.543,"end":36385.51,"text":"一旦變成了補助費就代表助理費不是助理費而是立委的補助費這不是自肥那什麼才叫做自肥這個就是社會大家共同擔心的部分那為什麼要在這個時機點這個會期的最後一天要如此倉促如此野蠻的來強行表決通過呢"},{"start":36389.107,"end":36406.734,"text":"大家所設定的可能原因第一就是為了要特定人的脫罪路徑這部分我們剛剛很多委員都有表達同樣的意見第二個是對老犬的一個假性的關懷國民黨的同仁說要提高助理的待遇"},{"start":36407.54,"end":36425.235,"text":"可是卻拒絕公開助理的名冊拒絕薪資的透明沒有透明的監督那這些錢最後到底是進了基層助理的口袋呢還是社會關心的進了立委的口袋沒有人知道所以助理"},{"start":36426.416,"end":36449.173,"text":"乍領助理會的事件一再的發生應該被檢討的是個別的民代而不是整個公費助理的制度那公費助理的公費這兩個字強調的就是由國家來保障國會助理的專業與權益國會助理會本來就應該是公開的公奴而不是看不見的小金庫今天我真的希望能夠"},{"start":36450.727,"end":36477.105,"text":"請所有的委員們共同的來清楚的表示今天國民黨這樣的提案真的是一個倒退就是在幫助特定人開後門我要很嚴正的希望我們國民黨的同仁立刻要撤回這樣的修法的版本不要把國會助理打回稱為私房的工具人讓我們一起來守住國會的專業也守住民主的底線"},{"start":36478.492,"end":36480.359,"text":"謝謝大家 謝謝我們接下來請賴瑞龍委員請發言"},{"start":36494.262,"end":36507.82,"text":"主席各位同仁今天是1月30號那也是我們立法院第11屆第4會期的最後一天那很遺憾在最後這個時間還晚上加班的時間去來處理這樣的一個法案這個時間應該要優先來處理的是我們的預算案"},{"start":36511.645,"end":36527.231,"text":"這是預算會期而我們今天這一屆立委就創下了一個史上的惡例竟然在我們的預算會期完全沒有審查總預算甚至於被一個直接阻擋在程序委員會甚至於副委討論機會都沒有這創下了最嚴重的惡例"},{"start":36527.931,"end":36553.811,"text":"包括很多的部分也都應該優先處理像財化法行政的版本好不容易已經送出來很多縣市都支持應該優先來處理過去這些藍白所通過的不公不義的財化法應該優先來處理讓國家財政回復到正常狀態結果沒有處理就今天處理的是完全具有高度爭議性的法案我們來看現在要處理這個法案我們都知道民主政治裡面其中非常重要是人才的征服"},{"start":36554.731,"end":36576.821,"text":"過去以來立法院培養出非常多優秀的人才都是從國會助理出身包括我包括許多同事都是如果沒有這些優秀的助理的制度的話不會有培養出這麼多優秀的人才結果現在藍白竟然打算要摧毀這樣的制度我們來看這樣的修法方式原先的部分是立法院編列預算來支應之"},{"start":36578.241,"end":36600.88,"text":"這是由立委來領選但是你實際的雇主是立法院你簽約的對象是立法院你得到所有立法院該給你的保障所有的公費助理是得到充分的保障跟充分的信任他們可以在這邊完全受到該有的尊重跟說實話該有的合理的對待依法來保障結果現在國民黨跟民眾黨提出來的修法是把它改為"},{"start":36601.861,"end":36628.948,"text":"作為立法委員補助費用當你改成這樣狀態下的時候全部的錢 全部進到立委的身上立委決定要用多少第一款裡面寫到的辦公室費用他要用多少在辦公室費用 他決定他要用多少給助理 他決定助理的制度將全面被破壞未來我們將很難吸引到優秀的人才在立法院裡面來成為助理當然我們就難以讓這些優秀人才進入到政治裡面"},{"start":36629.528,"end":36654.978,"text":"而成為未來有機會的國家的優秀的政治人才這將是台灣助理制度的一個崩壞國會助理制度的大崩壞同時間也是台灣民主制度的一個大崩壞所以我們在這強烈的譴責這樣的提案這是假幫助助理之民事實在迫害助理甚至在危害整個助理制度的一個知識所以我們再次呼籲藍白立委懸崖勒馬"},{"start":36655.618,"end":36678.872,"text":"不要傷害好不容易台灣民主制度建立起來的一個很好的國會助理制度這些公費助理都是讓台灣民主向前走的關鍵力量若破壞掉了將會影響到台灣的自由民主制度你們也將會成為歷史上的罪人我們再次呼籲藍白懸崖勒馬好 謝謝賴瑞龍委員的發言 謝謝我們現在進行逐條討論第32條請宣讀"},{"start":36682.694,"end":36698.369,"text":"委員劉許庭等提案第32條立法委員每人得至公費助理8人至14人由委員聘用前與其同進退並適用勞動基準法規定但公費助理離職後6個月內在任公費助理者其工作年資應與並計"},{"start":36700.271,"end":36715.143,"text":"立法院應每年以公務預算編列下列立法委員補助費用一 每一立法委員辦公事務費用二 按每一立法委員每年稅費五倍之公費處理工資及依勞動法令規定應由雇主負擔之相關費用"},{"start":36716.224,"end":36737.315,"text":"三 公費助理之專業加擠四 公費助理之資深加擠五 公費助理實施健康檢查及文康活動費用六 公費助理之年終工作獎金七 公費助理之在職進修費用八 公費助理之結婚補助生育補助 喪葬補助子女教育補助費用九 公費助理之服務費"},{"start":36738.476,"end":36756.914,"text":"前項第一款費用之項目及標準如附表在中華民國102年1月1日實行第二項第二款是第九款補助費用由立法院代理立法委員給付第二項第三款專業佳績以公費助理領有下列證書之一者為限同時領有多種證書者並得與累計"},{"start":36760.197,"end":36771.834,"text":"其项目类别加急标准及其他应遵行之事项由立法院定之一 专门职业及技术人员证书考试及格证书或教师证书但有下列其行之意者不适用之"},{"start":36773.191,"end":36796.965,"text":"一、受承接於停止執行職業務或其他相類似處分期間二、承受署名之承接處分三、承受解聘不續聘處分或於終局提聘期間二、公務人員高等考試或普通考試及格證書但承受免除職務、撤職、剝奪、減少退休職務金或休職之承接處分者不適用之"},{"start":36797.705,"end":36820.697,"text":"三、公立或依法立案之私立大学或符合教育部裁认规定之国外大学硕士以上学位证书其项各款证书经确效者其已知领之专业家境应予追回第二项第四款自身家籍已公费处理证职恩领上者违宪其分级家籍标准及其他应遵行之事项由立法院定之"},{"start":36821.377,"end":36839.555,"text":"第二项第五款费用支对象项目方法标准及其他应遵行之事项由立法院认定之自中华民国一百十四年一月一日实行第二项第六款年终工作奖金以公费助理月支工资专业加给及资深加给之和技术比照军工教育人员"},{"start":36840.276,"end":36862.864,"text":"年终工作奖金发给基准发给之第二项第七款费用以补助公费助理经所属立法委员同意于公余时间至公立或依法立案之私立大学入学进修或选修学分者为限其补助办法由立法院定之第二项第八款费用以公费助理月薪工资比较全国军工校员工"},{"start":36863.524,"end":36880.492,"text":"待遇知己要点之补助基准发给之第二项第九款抚慰金以公费助理于聘用期间病故或因公死亡者为限按其月之工资专业家及其资深家及职和技术准用聘用人员聘用条例之规定发给之"},{"start":36881.963,"end":36899.306,"text":"台湾民众党党团修正动议第32条立法委员每人得至公费助理8人至14人由委员聘用且与其同进退并适用劳动技术法制规定但公费助理离职后6个月内在任公费助理者其工作年资应予以并计"},{"start":36900.187,"end":36905.209,"text":"立法院亦每年以公务预算编列下列立法委员补助费用1."},{"start":36905.209,"end":36908.09,"text":"每一立法委员办公室费用2."},{"start":36908.09,"end":36916.634,"text":"按每一立法委员每年税费5倍之公费助理工资及以劳动法令规定应由雇主负担之相关费用3."},{"start":36916.634,"end":36918.695,"text":"公费助理之专业加计4."},{"start":36918.695,"end":36921.156,"text":"公费助理之资深加计5."},{"start":36921.156,"end":36924.037,"text":"公费助理实施健康检查及文康活动费用"},{"start":36924.858,"end":36927.822,"text":"6.公費助理制年終工作獎金7."},{"start":36927.822,"end":36930.266,"text":"公費助理制在職勤休費用8."},{"start":36930.266,"end":36935.915,"text":"公費助理制服務金選項第一款費用制項目及標準如附表自中華民國102年1月1日實行"},{"start":36938.772,"end":36957.532,"text":"第二项第二款之第八款补助费用由立法院代理立法委员给付第二项第三款专业佳绩以公费助理领有下列证书之一者为限同时领有多种证书者除考试及格证书及职业证书则依采集机会并得予累计"},{"start":36958.692,"end":36981.839,"text":"1.律师或会计师考试几个证书律师或会计师证书但受承接与停止执行职业务期间或承受署名之承接处分者不适用之2.司法官考试公务人员法制会计或公务会计类科考试几个证书但承受免除职务撤职剥夺或减少退休职务金或休职之奖成"},{"start":36982.759,"end":37012,"text":"承届处分者不适用之3.公立或依法联职私立大学或符合教育部采认规定之国外大学硕士以上学位证书但仅采集最高学位证书一次2.第二项第四款资深加给以公费处理年资在四年以上者为限2.第二项第三款及第四款加给由公费处理检据相关证明文件经所属立法委员审核后向立法院提出并因项链规定自提出日起发给"},{"start":37012.6,"end":37041.815,"text":"一 您有司法官考试几个证书者每月新台币二万元二 您有律师或会计师证书律师考试会计师考试或公务人员高等考试三级或特种考试三等法制会计或关税会计类科考试几个证书者每月新台币一万五千元三 您有公务人员普通考试或特种考试四等会计或关税会计类科考试几个证书者每月新台币一万元"},{"start":37042.575,"end":37068.406,"text":"四 林友硕士學位占數者每月新台幣三千元五 林友博士學位占數者每月新台幣一萬二千元六 年資在四年以上八年未滿者每月新台幣六千元七 年資在八年以上十二年未滿者每月新台幣八千元八 年資在十二年以上者每月新台幣一萬元林友第二項第三款專業家計專人有第五項第一款單書或第二款單書徵請行事"},{"start":37070.083,"end":37091.271,"text":"因此事实发生之日起30日内,检据相关资料通知所属立法委员及立法院,并自事实发生之4月起停止发给专业家纪。未通知而致意领获其证书由苏集既往是其效力就其行者,并因返还已知领之专业家纪,其因此所受领之年终工作奖金。"},{"start":37092.171,"end":37113.501,"text":"有意领获应返还专业家籍及年终工作奖金之期行政,立法院应以书面,命其于三十日内返还,借其人为返还者,移送行政执行。第二项第五款费用之对象项目方法,标准及其他应遵行之事项,由立法院内定之,自中华民国一百十四年一月一日实行。"},{"start":37114.401,"end":37131.702,"text":"第二項第六款年終工作獎金以公費助理月資、工資、專業家籍及資深家籍之和技術比較軍工教育人員年終工作獎金發給月數發給之第二項第七款費用以補助年資在一年上之公費助理經所屬立法委員同意與公餘時"},{"start":37133.064,"end":37161.858,"text":"兼至公立或依法立法之私立大学入学进修或选修学分者为限每一立法委员及党团每学期至多补助二人公费助理在职进修所修科目成绩均及格且平均达70分以上或相当短期者每学期补助其学费杂费学分费学分学杂费及学杂费基数之进修费有三分之二但每人每学期补助金额不得于新台币二万元"},{"start":37163.413,"end":37181.958,"text":"第二项第八款服务金以公费处理与聘用期间或依法令留置停薪期间死亡者为限一次发给其遗属新台币70万元并比较劳工退休金条例遗属请领退休金收为及方式办理但故意自杀拘捕致死或无遗属者不予发给"},{"start":37183.358,"end":37200.077,"text":"台湾民众囊囊团在修正动议第32条立法委员每人得是公费助理8人除14人有委员聘用且与其同进退并适用劳动技术法治规定但公费助理离职后6个月内暂任公费助理者其工作年资应与并计"},{"start":37200.838,"end":37226.187,"text":"立法院应每年以公费预算编列下列立法委员补助费用一 每一立法委员办公事务费用二 按每一立法委员每年税费五倍之公费助理工资及劳动法令规定应由雇主负担之相关费用三 公费助理之专业加计四 公费助理之资深加计五 公费助理实行健康检查及文康活动费用六 公费助理之年终工作奖金"},{"start":37226.967,"end":37240.635,"text":"7 公費助理制債執行凶費用8 公費助理制扶威金前項第一款費用制項目及標準如附表自中華民國102年1月1日申請第二項第二款制第八款補助費用由立法院代理立法委員給付"},{"start":37242.56,"end":37266.307,"text":"第二项列三款专业家籍以公费助理领有下列证书之一者为限同时领有多种证书者主考试几个证书及职业证书则依采集一次外并得予累计一律师或会计师考试几个证书律师或会计师证书单受惩戒于停职执行职业务期间或曾受署名之惩戒处分者不信用之"},{"start":37267.528,"end":37280.781,"text":"2.司法官考试公务人员法治会计或关税会计类科考试及格证书,但承受免除职务,撤职剥夺或减少退休职务金或休职之前件处分者不适用之。3."},{"start":37280.781,"end":37287.708,"text":"公立或依法利亚之私立大学或符合教育部裁判规定之国外大学硕士以上学位证书,但及"},{"start":37288.328,"end":37310.706,"text":"采集最高学位证书一次第二项第四款自身家计以公费处理年资在四年以上者文献第二项第三款及第四款家计由公费处理检据相关证明文件经所属立法委员审核后向立法院提出并因下列规定自提出日起发给一 领有司法官考试及格证书者每月新台币二万元"},{"start":37311.506,"end":37324.864,"text":"2.零用律师或会计师证书律师考试会计师考试或公务人员高等考试三级或特种考试三等法制会计或关税会计类科考试及格证书者每月新台币一万五千元"},{"start":37326.283,"end":37350.655,"text":"三 领有公务人员普通考试或他总考试四等会计或关税会计类科考试及格证书者每月新台币一万元四 领有确试学位证书者每月新台币三千元五 领有博士学位证书者每月新台币一万二千元六 年资在四年上八年未满者每月新台币六千元七 年资在八年上十二年未满者每月新台币八千元"},{"start":37351.575,"end":37367.49,"text":"8.年資在12年以上者每月新台幣1萬元另有第2項第3款專業加解決人有第5項的第1款單書或第2款單書徵情形式因此事實發生之日起30日內前去相關資料通知所屬立法委員及立法院"},{"start":37367.99,"end":37393.592,"text":"并自事实发生之4月起停止发给专业家籍未通知而致意领或其证书有溯及既往实行效率追击行政并因返还已居领之专业家籍及因此所受领之年终工作奖金有意领或因返还专业家籍及年终工作奖金追击行政立法院应以书面命请于30日内返还借其人为返还者移送行政执行"},{"start":37395.073,"end":37414.816,"text":"第二项第五款费用之对项项目方法标准及其他应遵行之事项由立法院认定之资助款民国一百十四年一月一日施行第二项第六款年终工作奖金以公费助理月支工资专业家姐及资深家姐之和技术比较军工教育人员年终工作奖金发给月数发给支"},{"start":37415.817,"end":37431.227,"text":"第二项递金还费用,以补助年资在一年上市公费助理,经所属立法委员同意,于公余时间至公立或以法例24例到选入学进修或选修学分者为限,每一立法委员及党团每学期至多补助二人。"},{"start":37431.847,"end":37450.32,"text":"公费助理在职进修所修科目成绩均及格且平均达70分以上或相当等级者每学期补助其学费杂费学分费学分学杂费及学杂费技术之进修费有三分之二但每人每学期补助金额不等于新台币2万元"},{"start":37451.281,"end":37471.825,"text":"第二项第八款服务金以公费助理于聘用期间或依法令理由指停薪期间死亡者为限一次发给其遗属新台币七成万元并比照劳工退休金条例遗属请领退休金顺位及方式办理但故意自杀拘捕致死或无遗属者不予发给宣读完毕"},{"start":37474.375,"end":37496.809,"text":"現在依照登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言王逸川委員請準備主席在場委員先進大家沒有注意到今天這個條文現場的狀況有三個奇怪"},{"start":37497.861,"end":37526.018,"text":"第一個奇怪有沒有發現那個條文念了很久念了很長念了超過15分鐘啊待會我告訴你為什麼第二前後的廣泛討論發言人次有20人次都是民進黨的委員沒有半個提案的國民黨的委員起來發言第三我們看一下現在待會7分鐘響鈴之後會不會他們一個一個從營業室跑出來為什麼現在不在位置上首先我告訴你第一個"},{"start":37528.375,"end":37540.65,"text":"國民黨的委員剛剛二十人次沒有人來講而民進黨的委員每一個講的直立有聲因為民進黨委員的表現充分的建立在他們善用助理的能力身上"},{"start":37541.922,"end":37570.159,"text":"這個條文助理關心幫委員準備的很詳細所以每個民進黨的委員都能講出助理的心聲反過來國民黨沒有哪個你們的助理敢為你們這個條文庇護從頭到尾在我們不敢到委員會去討論只有劉許廷敢在朝野協商的時候講話其他小委員你們的助理敢幫你寫這個條文的發言稿嗎沒有"},{"start":37571.059,"end":37597.314,"text":"所以你們從頭到尾不敢幫你們的條文辯護第二委員說啊真相只有一個真相只要講一句但是要掩蓋真相要講一百句謊言這就是典型的掩護掩蓋真相一百句謊言的條文啊陳玉珍委員很粗暴的要說免核聚來核銷"},{"start":37600.464,"end":37622.75,"text":"所以呢 工會反彈 挑了很多的要求很好 牛許廷委員把助理們的要求寫進去了有什麼念給你聽 有再次進修還有呢 專業加擠 資深加擠還有呢 結婚補助 洋洋灑灑寫了七款啊但是最終一款是什麼"},{"start":37624.346,"end":37637.861,"text":"由立法院代理立法委員給刑啊還是要看立法院的臉色啊這些美麗的糖花都是掩飾最後最關鍵的最關鍵的核心條文就是補助費用"},{"start":37639.397,"end":37658.254,"text":"什麼委員提出說 如果你擔心自焚 你好啊 你寫下來啊條文寫 不得冒領 不得議領 不得領口繳回 敢不敢寫 不敢你會決定還放話說 沒有關係啊 我們下屆實施有嗎 有寫下這實施嗎第三個 我們看一下"},{"start":37662.018,"end":37690.126,"text":"為什麼他們只要這樣子堅持到最後因為這個幫派啊對他們的兄弟有個交代他們要告訴顏寬恆我們挺你別忘了顏寬恆改了這個也救不了你啊好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言發言會再次拜託 再次拜託尊重發言委員權益非常非常感謝各位委員接下來我們請王毅山委員發言莊瑞雄委員請準備"},{"start":37699.657,"end":37722.513,"text":"好 謝謝院長我們今天最好這趟是因為這個黃國昌要離開 離開他啊算了 把他逼上一條嘛結果在討論這些人都沒在沒辦法處理這條 這條先不要處理今天A報啊先通過一個幫這個中國電視台幫阿強阿公的電視台"},{"start":37723.038,"end":37731.266,"text":"還要回來嗎?這第一條國民黨民眾黨以前國昌最討厭的那個中國電視台跟阿強講話的電視台還要回來嗎?後面這兩個人都在說炒賣的事情做街灶、做建築這三人模啊"},{"start":37742.245,"end":37758.748,"text":"為了要統治台灣 統治地市民主創了這個滅國團啦這滅國團 偷竊台灣的土地 佔地 佔佔的現在不當黨產的這個委員會 把它套回來套回來之後 現在國民黨叫這個民眾黨說 不用 不用贏都用這滅國團的現在全部都套套回去 這事情第三"},{"start":37771.121,"end":37782.325,"text":"第三就是為了這個民眾黨啊 再造一個領域叫做高峰這樣把你做的錢啊 拿去洗頭盆 拿去黏那個什麼雙眼皮為了這個啦 為了這個 今天去啦 再收一條"},{"start":37792.918,"end":37802.846,"text":"像這條說什麼 助理的職叫做立法委員的補助會助理的職就是助理的職 不用攬攬就位說到這麼熱鬧 叫什麼好事助理的職就是 特定一條就是處理助理的職不要攬攬什麼叫立法委員補助會"},{"start":37817.85,"end":37829.378,"text":"做你的職就是做你的職 叫立法院本主要什麼管理你問事情 你說要逗教的意思是什麼 意義是什麼你把他踢開 這事情就都解決了立法院的這個法律 立法院要報什麼報什麼這立法局的事 做你的要報的 做你的擔當的就好 你說要跟政府說 這叫立法院有管理"},{"start":37843.103,"end":37868.21,"text":"不知道你們在想什麼 不知道你們在想什麼沒有這個不好啦沒有這個你只是把這個立委喔 起來...這個助理起來做肉票說喔 這立委啊 要幫這個助理加薪水加薪水就給你一條牙不要給他什麼立法委員補助委 發明一種有的沒的你要不要用這個方式 誰不知道還要偷竊東西"},{"start":37870.362,"end":37889.71,"text":"你為了民眾黨部這條喔 不會好啦第一 叫得小才好 你如果沒差這個錢啦老鼠要這樣嘛 你鼠雙窮死了嘛 笑死人好 謝謝王一川委員發言接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員發言 蔡奕宇委員請準備"},{"start":37899.69,"end":37917.941,"text":"主席 各位在場的媒體朋友國民黨跟民眾黨的朋友你們也仔細聽一下本來啊 現行的條文長照長成這樣子啊立法委員助理會是由立法院來編列預算之印這是本來的條文"},{"start":37919.398,"end":37939.837,"text":"國民黨現在劉許廷委員你先把它改成怎麼樣咧助理費不是叫做立法院編列預算之音啊說編列下列立法委員的補助費用啊魔鬼就藏在這個細節裡面啊我跟在場的委員報告我講個故事給你們聽春秋時代喔"},{"start":37941.038,"end":37966.496,"text":"有一個人要偷鐘那個鐘很大他想說先把它敲碎可是敲碎了又很大聲他就把耳朵延起來他要去偷飯市的鐘這個叫延耳盜鈴啦這個就是今天的中國國民黨立法院啊要開大門啊要走大路啊"},{"start":37967.594,"end":37984.949,"text":"我特別肯定陳毓章委員我叫小人家陳毓章委員的提案是什麼呢是說這一筆助理費用以後全部免減劇費用免減劇費用核銷立法委員統籌運用陳毓章我該怕不怕"},{"start":37991.069,"end":38016.871,"text":"人家老叫小 要給他除罪話嘛你們也想除罪話 你們就偷偷摸摸我告訴各位地方民待知己條例第六條 想不想說什麼 你知道嗎助理費用 要怎麼樣去運用必須要有一個內控制度各位 我們立法院秘書處也聽到了"},{"start":38022.022,"end":38046.901,"text":"我們立法院說全部通通不用這個條文完全都沒有這兩年我聽最多的就是藍白的委員一直在講說我們國家越打越炸說你行政部門行政院你要打炸打炸結果我們說打炸行政院你就只能打外面的不能打立法委員這個案子就告訴我們"},{"start":38048.792,"end":38054.067,"text":"行政部門要去打仗但是不能打到立法院來 通嗎?不通嗎?"},{"start":38057.748,"end":38079.485,"text":"劉許廷文等一下你講一句就好了你上來就說因為這是你的提案你就告訴社會大眾這個案子跟最高法院一貫的見解一樣助理費不是議員不是立法委員的實質薪資範圍講這一句話就好了我告訴各位啊這個案子白忙一場啦"},{"start":38080.481,"end":38083.422,"text":"就算通過 那是事實變更好 謝謝 謝謝張瑞"},{"start":38119.176,"end":38127.831,"text":"呼籲一下拜託院會我們繼續保持肅靜尊重發言委員的權益接下來我們請蔡易瑜委員發言黃秀芳委員請準備"},{"start":38147.645,"end":38170.801,"text":"主席 各位同仁事實上剛剛聽到了很多人都在講今天在處理這個立法院的組織法那國民黨如果當作這麼重要不惜著說要延長時間最後今天開會的最後一天還要處理這個到底在急什麼"},{"start":38173.298,"end":38194.815,"text":"如果像劉許廷的版本說你為了要增加這些立委的福利要增加然後再去藏了一個叫做把它改成補助費用那你就同意嘛你們再提一個修正案的一個版本把這個補助費用拿掉回到過去的就是依法實質編列然後這些費用基本上就由立法院來支應這樣就沒問題了"},{"start":38196.776,"end":38221.261,"text":"你們現在就提這個修正動議,那我想可能等一下也不用大家這樣發言這個事情就好了,要不要做?你們這樣修正動議就好了,為什麼?你們就一定要在這個法案,然後說這個叫做立法委員的補助費用補助費用意思是什麼?就是動作這個地方整體薪資大水庫的一部分嘛"},{"start":38222.349,"end":38241.516,"text":"那你們要這樣用的一個結果 你們的目的是什麼就是未來的柏瓜系的時候 你就可以順勢的在訴訟的過程中去主張你看現在立法院已經有新的一個定義這個名詞定義咧 未來的給助理的這一些的從薪水啦 什麼專業家籍資深家籍"},{"start":38244.217,"end":38269.355,"text":"這個都是立法委員的補助費用啊既然這是立法委員的補助費用,意思這就是給立委的啊就是給立委的,可以自己運用的啊這裡的錢給我刷去把他運用去,這樣立委我自己的補助我都刷去把他運用這樣我還可以負責自己的錢?這樣就沒有啊這樣你就達到你的目的啊,在訴訟上達到除罪的效果嘛"},{"start":38270.441,"end":38291.787,"text":"所以這個大家都清楚的事情那劉雪芹等一下你要上來講你同不同意就是在這裡你把補助費用這個文字拿掉拿掉之後我想接下來要討論增加我們助理的待遇哇大家很高興我們現在用暗示的時間來討論要怎麼增加助理的待遇我覺得這個是值得的"},{"start":38293.527,"end":38304.133,"text":"我們今天來的武漢戰爭也可以,但是你實際上,你這叫做暗度層倉捏!言而道理,你暗度層倉捏!牛市廷,你這樣武,實際上大家知道你在武殺!"},{"start":38312.076,"end":38341.044,"text":"阿這個真的國民黨你硬要這樣做嗎你們今天至少你們已經齁你們的中天也可以復原阿你們救國團也拿回去阿 互聯會也拿回去阿四百六十月你們拿回去阿最後還要為了除罪話現在還要忙到這麼晚你們再休息一下啦謝謝蔡議員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請黃秀芳委員發言劉許廷委員請準備"},{"start":38349.033,"end":38361.664,"text":"時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停拜託各位院會的委員各位委員尊重發言委員的權益好嗎請保持肅靜黃秀芳委員請發言"},{"start":38363.588,"end":38378.881,"text":"謝謝主席還有所有的同仁今天是我們立法院這個會期的最後一天很遺憾我們現在要提的立法院組織法修正草案會影響到立法院上千位的助理的權益"},{"start":38379.702,"end":38400.134,"text":"我們看到國民黨提出來的立法院組織法的修正草案將公費助理工資納入立委的補助費用藍白趁今天立法院的最後一天即將要將法案闖關我相信很多我們所有委員的助理"},{"start":38400.874,"end":38430.085,"text":"有的應該都是看著現在立法院這個院會裡面看轉播看所有藍白委員對於這個法案你們到底是對於我們這麼辛苦的這些立法院的公費助理你們這樣子對待他們我相信很多每一位委員的不論是質詢或者是選民服務那地方的選民服務都是由這些公費立委非常辛苦的有的是代替委員"},{"start":38431.105,"end":38453.895,"text":"來做一些法案的處理所以我在這邊要再次的證告所有的藍白委員你們不要要將這個立法院組織法修正草案變成是一個除罪化那我相信這個可能也是我們立委這個通過之後立法委員自肥加薪"},{"start":38454.955,"end":38477.397,"text":"我覺得這是非常不應該的那另外我看到這個以後立法委員的貪污助理費會變成無罪那不只如此國民黨還要修法把可以貪的金額加高如果藍白委員不認為這個條文是除罪化的話那麼就把輕吞助理費是違法寫在法條上"},{"start":38478.198,"end":38494.827,"text":"國民黨民眾黨你們敢不敢請你們誠實面對人民請你們誠實面對這些為你們賣命的助理助理費這個制度原來是為了支持民意代表推動公共事務聘僱專業人才"},{"start":38496.468,"end":38523.628,"text":"然後採取公費支應由人民納稅前所建構的民主工具那因為最近這幾年從立法院到地方的議會助理制度頻頻被濫用民貸涉及人頭掛名或者是差額回捐福報薪資挪用公帑等手法層出不窮所以讓助理費淪為個人身材甚至貪腐的管道"},{"start":38524.409,"end":38547.497,"text":"那立法院所有的藍白的委員你們不去思考加強助理費的監督國民黨民眾黨反其道而行來推動民代貪污助理費除罪化這個根本就是民主支持好謝謝黃秀芳委員的發言接下來我們請"},{"start":38549.295,"end":38567.186,"text":"拜託各位委員尊重發言委員好權益好不好 拜託一下我們接下來請登記第六號 牛許廷委員請發言謝謝主席各位親愛的院會同仁 大家久等了"},{"start":38568.595,"end":38595.778,"text":"今天來跟大家上上最基本的ABC因為我們剛剛忍受了一個多小時錯誤資訊的連續轟炸要維持心情平靜不太容易剛剛我們好多民進黨的好朋友義正慈嚴他說這樣子的修法因為納入了補助的性質所以通通除罪了以後炸零助理費通通沒事你們到底是在天真哪一出來 我給大家看看"},{"start":38596.857,"end":38613.55,"text":"第十一屆第一會期我們立法院通過的叫做地方民意代表知己條例那時候我們大家都非常高興為什麼因為我們幫地方的縣市議員的助理大幅的加薪我們幫村里長爭取了年終獎金等等的待遇"},{"start":38614.585,"end":38626.509,"text":"大家不要忘記了當初的明代知己條例是有行政院院版我今天就把它大圖輸出給大家看行政院版第六條的修正條文說直轄市議會縣市議會得編列議員助理補助費"},{"start":38630.55,"end":38657.719,"text":"補助各議員聘用助理我還沒說完立法說明更加殘暴他說為補助議員聘僱專職助理履行議員職權定名各議會得編列助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理又為彰顯費用屬補助性質刪除公費二字行政院提出來的明代知己條例就明列"},{"start":38658.868,"end":38672.402,"text":"民代的助理就是補助款還很殘暴的把應該是公費助理的公費兩個字刪除請問行政院在幫詐領議員助理費的這些議員除罪嗎回答我這樣子的一個說法當初"},{"start":38684.982,"end":38714.242,"text":"當初這個法條在修正的時候順利的通過為什麼我給大家上上課因為討論明代知己條例的時候大家都知道法案的重點在幫議員助理加薪所以這一條是無意義通過如果你們今天說談的不知性質就是除罪那在座的各位通通是共犯一個也別想跑也不要在那邊假請告"},{"start":38716.503,"end":38735.618,"text":"再來這個是行政院主計總署的各個預算之用的說明啊這個說明談到民意代表的補助的時候民意代表待遇說凡民意代表的稅費公費研究費及依法並用助理人員之待遇補助均屬之"},{"start":38736.218,"end":38751.208,"text":"所以請問 按照現行的法條或者是明代知己條例的修正它不是補助 什麼才是補助沒關係 我待會還有很多次發言機會敬請期待 謝謝好 謝謝牛許評委的發言謝謝謝謝"},{"start":38768.561,"end":38773.723,"text":"我們接下來請林柱英委員發言羅美玲委員請準備"},{"start":38792.436,"end":38805.818,"text":"現在時間是晚上的7點17分我們在這裡我們的助理也在這裡如果說剛剛許廷所講的以一個地方知己條例就要比照現在的32條的內容那麼我就請問一下"},{"start":38808.12,"end":38828.291,"text":"如果說你們認為這個補助費不是把它變成立委的小金庫那麼為什麼不做文字修正你們偏偏一定要把它寫成補助費事實上所有的民進黨委員站在這裡一個多小時只想講一個重點"},{"start":38829.332,"end":38858.017,"text":"那就是如果你們要幫立委加薪OK你們要幫立委增加福利OK你們要讓助理獲得更多的薪資沒有人反對但是這個條文當中真正的重點就是補助費當他一旦進入了補助費的範圍那就是給立委愛怎麼用就怎麼用"},{"start":38859.269,"end":38882.439,"text":"所以在這樣的一個過程當中我就問牛許廷如果你認為補助費不是你剛剛所講的只是所謂為了除罪化開脫其實你大可以把文字直接劃成線型條文當中由立委 立法院編列預算支應之"},{"start":38884.598,"end":38905.031,"text":"這樣子大家其實根本都不用花這些時間在討論不是嗎大家所擔心的就是現在變成了法律的模糊空間變成是接下來修法一旦過關之後包括高雄安包括顏匡恆他們可以被處罪化"},{"start":38905.971,"end":38928.647,"text":"今天剛剛牛許勳所講的都是廢話一場只是為了要圓他改了這幾個字但是明明最高法院的解釋就告訴你了這會有模糊的空間但是為什麼你要硬撐那就是為了幫忙來做法律上面的開脫不論是掩耳盜鈴還是掛羊頭賣狗肉"},{"start":38932.845,"end":38944.779,"text":"這些過程當中助理們都看得非常清楚那就是從今天一整天到現在研會到晚上7點19分總預算一毛沒有過國民黨黨產發大財國民黨立委發大財"},{"start":38952.121,"end":38979.899,"text":"2026藍白發大財是這樣嗎如果真是如此那麼這樣的立法院的存在將是民主政治崩壞的開始我的發言我相信很多國會的立法委員的助理們都在看著而這些就是把助理當成待在羔羊好 謝謝林楚瑩委員發言"},{"start":38980.563,"end":38987.991,"text":"接下來我們最後一位羅美玲委員發言完畢之後我們將會休息30分鐘用晚餐我們現在請羅美玲委員請發言"},{"start":38997.964,"end":39023.737,"text":"好今天是這個預算會期最後一天這也是史上第一次預算會期馬上就要結束了可是呢我們立法院呢還有很多的預算呢都還沒有來審議那藍白呢今天繼續是與這個人數的這個優勢呢趕在這個會期的最後一天呢完成了一堆自肥護航還有洗白跟護幣的這個惡法原來"},{"start":39026.138,"end":39052.747,"text":"研會並不是要來審預算原來研會是為了要通過這些爭議的這個法案那今天除了住宅法比較沒有爭議之外呢藍白那強推的二法有哪一些我們有看到他們護航紅媒回歸修了衛星廣播電視法讓早已經要下架五年多的中天呢馬上就要復台了那再來呢"},{"start":39054.107,"end":39071.676,"text":"黨產大回收修不當黨產條例把原屬於國家的400多億的不當黨產再度要收回國民黨的口袋那再來總預算國防預算一毛都沒有審因為怕被罵所以放行了38項藍白認為跟民生相關的"},{"start":39075.558,"end":39091.011,"text":"新兴计划先行动之可是实际上呢有冻结了76%的新兴的预算那再来我们看到就是现在我们正在讨论的立法院组织法让助理费贪污呢除罪化"},{"start":39091.852,"end":39115.786,"text":"那让这些涉嫌挪用助理费用的这些立法委员来做这个解套那为了降低这个国会助理的反弹我们今天看到表决的版本并没有纳入原本被骂翻的陈玉珍的版本那是用了牛许婷委员的这版本那实际上这两个版本本质上并没有什么区别"},{"start":39116.286,"end":39136.779,"text":"因为国民党修法的核心内容都是将原本法规当中明文规定由国家支应给公费助理的助理费呢改为纳入立法委员补助费用之下那林许婷委员的版本看起来洋洋洒洒写了很多助理的福利"},{"start":39137.219,"end":39164.341,"text":"那看起来好像真的有明显的增加那实际上就是因为它是属于立委的补助费用所以呢到底能不能拿到这些福利这些助理能不能得到这些福利那是立法委员说了算他不给你你也拿他没辙他也不违法所以这样子的法令通过的话到底对立法院的助理的劳动权利呢"},{"start":39165.001,"end":39182.254,"text":"会不会因此而受害我想这是值得来做公平的刚刚我有听到我们有委员提到就是说修法通过立委每个月的薪资大幅提升那以后薪资扣缴要如何计算助理从这个立委的补助当中得"},{"start":39192.844,"end":39201.399,"text":"好 謝謝羅美玲委員發言外交會剛才有委員建議能夠休息時間縮短一點所以我們現在休息20分鐘晚上7點45分繼續開會我們現在休息 請用餐"},{"start":40455.134,"end":40456.156,"text":"報議會我們繼續開會第32條現在要進行處理我們按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡"},{"start":40888.39,"end":40903.206,"text":"好 時間已到 請問各位是否都有拿到表決卡都有拿到 我們要進行表決我們現在依序進行表決其中一案通過 我們不再處理其他案我們現在表決台灣民眾黨團在修正動議條文"},{"start":40905.646,"end":40916.542,"text":"現在有民進黨團 台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘贊成台灣民眾黨團在修正動議請按贊成 反對按反對現在開始"},{"start":40990.236,"end":40995.341,"text":"抱怨會報告表決結果在場委員107位贊成60位反對47位贊成者多數第32條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過我們現在進行第33條請宣讀"},{"start":41008.939,"end":41037.459,"text":"委員紐許婷等提案第33條每屆立法委員選取當選席次的三席且席次較多之五個政黨得各組成黨團席次相同時以抽籤決定組成之立法委員以其所屬政黨參加黨團每一政黨以組成一黨團為鑑每一黨團至少需維持三年以上不能依前項規定組成黨團之政黨或五黨集之委員得加入其他黨團黨團為黨五個時得合組四人以上之政黨政團"},{"start":41038.32,"end":41065.4,"text":"依第四項將名單送交人事處之政團以席次交託者優先組成黨政團總數合計五個人限傾向政團准用有關黨團之規定各黨團應於每年首次會期開議日前一日將各黨團所屬委員名單經黨團負責人簽名後送交人事處以供認定委員所參加之黨團黨團辦公室由立法院提供之各黨團提供費助理10人至16人由各黨團領選"},{"start":41066.741,"end":41084.681,"text":"并由其对派职委员聘用之相关费用除公费处理工资按每一立法委员每年税费六倍编列补助费用外依前条之规定限制前线限制公费处理于中华民国八十七年三月一日至九十四年六月三十日间"},{"start":41085.882,"end":41097.331,"text":"由各黨團領選並由其推派之委員或各幹政黨聘用並實際服務於黨團之助理年資得辦理勞動計準法工作年資及輕事宜"},{"start":41099.414,"end":41129.174,"text":"台湾民众党党团修审动议第33条,每届立法委员选取当选席次达三席且席次交入之五个政党,得各组成党团。席次相同时已出现决定组成之,立法委员以其所属政党参加党团,每一政党以组成一党团为限,每一党团至少需维持三人以上,未能以前项规定组成党团之政党或五党及之委员,得加入其他党团,党团未达五个时,得合组四人以上之政团。"},{"start":41129.774,"end":41157.487,"text":"依第四项将名单送交人事处之政团依其次较多者优先组成党政团总数合计以五个为限选项政团准用有关党团之规定各党团应于每年首次会期开议日前一日将各党团所属委员之名单经党团负责人签名后送交人事处以供认定委员所参加之党团党团办公室由立法院提供之各党团至公费处理十人至十六人由各党团临选"},{"start":41158.067,"end":41184.496,"text":"并有其推派之委员聘用之相关费用除公费助理工资按每一立法委员每年税费六倍编列补助费用外依前同时规定前向限制公费助理于中华民国八十七年三月一日至九十四年六月三十日间由各党团领选并有其推派之委员或各干政党聘用并实际服务于党团之助理联资的办理劳动计准法"},{"start":41185.516,"end":41213.886,"text":"工作年资结清事宜台湾民众党党团在修正动议第33条每届立法委员选举当选席次达三席且席次较多之五个政党的各组成党团席次相同时以抽签决定组成之立法委员以其所属政党参加党团每一政党以组成一党团为限每一党团至少需维持三远上未能以选项规定组成党团之政党或五党执政委员得加入其他党团"},{"start":41214.486,"end":41230.923,"text":"党团为党五个时,得和组四人双支阵团依第四项章名单送交人事处支阵团以席次交入者优先组成党阵团总数合计以五个为限前线阵团准有有关党团之规定各党团应于每年首次会议开日"},{"start":41231.684,"end":41256.742,"text":"该议日前一日将各党团所属为名单经党团负责人签名后送交人事处以公认定委员所参加之党团党团办公室有立法愿提供之各党团至公费助理10人至16人由各党团领选并由其推办至委员聘用之相关费用除公费助理工资按每一立法委员每年税费6倍编列补出费用外依检调试规定"},{"start":41257.302,"end":41277.104,"text":"其项限制公费助理于中华民国87年3月1日至94年6月30日间由各党团领选并由其对派之委员或各该政党聘用并实际服务于党团之助理联资的办理劳动基准法工作联资解析事宜宣布完毕"},{"start":41279.025,"end":41295.009,"text":"報告委員會許智傑委員發表聲明對剛才的表決與民進黨黨團意見一致我們列入公報記錄現在依登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言 王一川委員請準備"},{"start":41303.888,"end":41325.878,"text":"院長各位同仁坐到這裡真的覺得國民黨委員的臉皮真的很厚那麼多人的發言都是民進黨在反對趕出來辯護的只有牛許廷一個人其他的默不作聲你們都說小牛聰明一世啊他很聰明他講話就夠了告訴你他不只聰明一世他是不可一世 佛土一時"},{"start":41326.838,"end":41343.821,"text":"自費刑犯罪怎麼被抓的啊做賊心虛被抓的剛剛我在發言的時候我說這個條例啊是立委在自肥不可以在本件實施他馬上說我們下件實施啊這叫做自正起罪啊"},{"start":41344.582,"end":41369.162,"text":"如果說這個條例的修法是為了提高國會助理的待遇什麼要到下屆實施這個月通過 下個月就要實施了吧所以表示你們都自己知道這是在圖利立法委員自己啊自證己罪 作賊心虛啊那更好玩的我在哪裡看到這個修正動議下屆實施誰提出的修正民眾黨 好玩啊"},{"start":41370.043,"end":41384.288,"text":"大家知道剛剛講到一個春秋時代的故事陳雲哥我又要說不要講中國的歷史對不起春秋的時代沒有中國叫做周國 周王國那時候魯國啊隔壁有個國家叫做諸國"},{"start":41386.429,"end":41406.607,"text":"諸國裡面有個大夫叫黑宮他為了要叛逃到魯國去把他的封地獻給了魯國我們都知道孔子坐春秋亂成賊子劇照說黑宮這種惡人小人行徑不配列入史冊更何況孔子是魯國人他應該幫魯國掩蓋這個黑歷史"},{"start":41409.469,"end":41424.341,"text":"結果孔子不但沒有做 他還大書特書把這個諸國叛逃到魯國的黑宮大夫的獵行記錄春秋史冊之後就有一個成語叫做什麼 欲蓋彌彰啊"},{"start":41426.656,"end":41449.49,"text":"今天國民黨 劉許廷的提案 作賊心虛明明是圖利自己立委 還要欲蓋彌彰 還要說我要幫助理加薪水而且下屆在實施 下屆實施 誰幫他加的修正動議民眾黨幫他做的修正動議所以我們今天真的是很多的成語 什麼掩耳盜鈴"},{"start":41450.991,"end":41478.341,"text":"什麼暗渡成餐啊所以今天國民黨扭曲停歇的這個版本就是做賊心虛治政己罪下界實施誰提的修正民眾黨幫他提修正動議欲蓋彌彰啊好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委的發言接下來我們請王一川委員發言 莊瑞雄委員請準備"},{"start":41489.495,"end":41509.642,"text":"主席,真可惜啦,國民黨自己拿版本說對今年1月1號開始實施,現在不敢申請啦現在說白菜啦,你寫了今年1月1號實施啊,你有寫當時實施1月1號啊啊不是很難讀啊,你字幕很長啊,你就寫1月1號啊"},{"start":41513.097,"end":41535.015,"text":"一百一十五年一月一號啊不然我跟民眾黨這幾個人如果要走啊就做一些好事把你蓋起來的時間繞過去不然每天拖這麼多很可憐的你知道嗎不然你說為什麼不可以把立法委員補助費用佩季扣掉到現在還沒出來"},{"start":41537.32,"end":41561.351,"text":"劉恥廷你跟人家說 問你這條就好立法委員補助費用一百億 你在堅持什麼 你在堅持什麼我要說啦 我的寬容還會被你害死啦寬容還會被你害死啦 寬容還不敢這條啦你這樣把社會全台灣 都在為了寬容而已啦你會被害死 你知道嗎 他沒有差這條啦"},{"start":41562.947,"end":41588.601,"text":"你們這個越幫越忙就受你這種的啦這條就通過了,沒辦法啊沒辦法啊,還假說也假說的啊不過歷史上會記錄國民黨提一個案,自違而且是從今年1月1號開始實施這國民黨的版本,國民黨版大家要記住歷史上是很可憐的啦,他算沒要信啦"},{"start":41589.383,"end":41613.317,"text":"我們來拚自己的福利啦好啊 站在那裡阻力出來做做票啦臭死人啦 你當作阻力都沒用嗎阻力就是要看線上直播啦阻力就是要看那漏氣的事情啦漏氣是下水下水好 謝謝王一山委員發言 謝謝我們接下來請莊瑞雄委員發言 蔡議員請準備"},{"start":41627.556,"end":41642.665,"text":"主席 各位委員要形容中國國民黨只有四個字可以形容鬼鬼祟祟如果說我們真正要對我們的國會所有的助理是有益的"},{"start":41644.181,"end":41669.586,"text":"民主進步黨不反對啊 中國國民黨你提案啊台灣民眾黨你也附議啊那就從明天就開始實施嘛那還要到日出咧 這個案子啊我還是要再次啊 肯定陳玉珍委員啊開大門走大路 就是提這個案要除罪他在12月5號 這個案子復委了"},{"start":41671.172,"end":41700.063,"text":"我是司法法治委員會的召委啊所以我12月11號我就開了專報結果呢 12月17號我們另外一個召委 翁曉琳委員開了公聽我們想說大家都要開你陳毓珍的版本耶結果整個過去了 牛許廷你再撒一個修正案出來這個叫做什麼 這個叫懺悔法案但是我也要肯定牛許廷喔"},{"start":41701.167,"end":41723.154,"text":"為什麼要肯定他呢他稍微有點良心他稍微會懺悔可是各位你去看看32條昨天 現在討論的是33條32條講的是立法委員五倍 五倍33條講六倍在昨天的時候 在協商的時候"},{"start":41724.249,"end":41746.267,"text":"牛委員 你們中國國民黨的講法 尤其是牛委員你認為說時賦時資 那是對的喔請整個六個月喔 結果呢你的修正案的版本跟你昨天的態度完全不一樣這個要幹什麼 還是預留下一個幫立法委員在立法院乍領助理費 開了一個後門啊"},{"start":41748.117,"end":41767.324,"text":"哪有這樣的一個立法立法委員大家很清楚在院內的言論對院外不負責任第二個就像現在為什麼要研會因為在會期裡面不能受逮捕的特權你們現在又開了一個立法委員詐騙不受法律的拘束詐領助理會這樣好嗎"},{"start":41770.026,"end":41797.392,"text":"想想看啦我希望劉委員等一下上來可以針對我的再反駁一下我會再給你肯定你越反駁我就代表你們叫做狗的啦你們都以為你們要幫人家解決事情你們在騙孩子啦那麼多人來拜託你們你們匆匆忙忙提一個法案真正有幫助的有辦法除罪的話就只有陳毓珍的版本啦其他的版本都沒有用啦"},{"start":41799.327,"end":41825.778,"text":"涉及到空白刑法的一個變更啊最高法案的見解那個認為叫事實的變更沒有用議員的補助費他絕對不會是議員的實質基金的補貼議員的立法委員的補助費你不要一個最高法院會認為說這是立法委員的那就看你沒有關係沒有人寫言啊"},{"start":41827.139,"end":41828.46,"text":"主席那我想剛剛32條已經表決過了"},{"start":41855.285,"end":41866.021,"text":"但是因為剛剛劉許廷委員來這剛剛在站在這裡的時候他用了一些似是而非的話想要誤導他的條文沒有問題"},{"start":41867.338,"end":41881.192,"text":"我給大家念得很清楚113年通過的地方民意代表費用知己及村里長事務補助費的補助條例中第六條第一項它寫直轄市議會縣市議會得編列議員助理補助費"},{"start":41886.516,"end":41906.081,"text":"大家再聽一下 他叫做議員的助理補助費劉詩婷的版本是什麼 32條第二項 他寫立法委員補助費用這樣大家聽得懂嗎這個叫做議員的助理補助費 它是一個名詞"},{"start":41908.15,"end":41923.589,"text":"這個叫做立法委員補助費用是在補助立法委員不是在補助助理捏阿想要用騙捏阿就想要替自己的條文開脫很遏止啦"},{"start":41925.465,"end":41950.314,"text":"很遏止啦 那我再念給你聽你剛用的條文中第一款它叫做議員助理補助費第四款講得更清楚第四款說地方的議會要就議員有關於補助費的分配情形助理聘用關係以及各項費用的資應情況建立內部控管的機制"},{"start":41952.798,"end":41956.451,"text":"這個控管的機制不是由立委來控管是由議會來控管"},{"start":41958.547,"end":41978.9,"text":"地方議會是這樣你再講廢話 你的條文長怎樣你的條文第四項寫你的補助費用是由立法院代理立法委員給付代理立法委員給付這條錢先變成立委付補助給立委之後立委再給給付給助理這條錢就變你的財產了 你知道嗎"},{"start":41988.188,"end":42001.257,"text":"就講得很清楚這個叫做議員的助理補助費就是助理的補助費喔對不對助理補助費這兩年就不一樣了他這是要補助助理的你這是要補助立委的"},{"start":42003.067,"end":42022.003,"text":"要怎麼用騙的啦所以我要講啦如果你對於這個條文很有信心本來你們今天就通過了黨產你也拿回去中天你也拿復原本來你們是匆匆忙忙有任有餘等著走出去我想等著走出去國民黨會認為你們沒有一個人敢接受記者的訪問因為你們都會變匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬"},{"start":42030.843,"end":42035.861,"text":"謝謝蔡議員的發言接下來我們請劉許廷委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備"},{"start":42044.478,"end":42071.521,"text":"謝謝主席啊各位同仁啊看法條不能只看一半這討論到現在我深深感覺如果我們今天感謝大家剛剛多數通過了助理的專業加給等等的加薪條例啊因為最需要助理充能啊提升品質的就是民進黨黨團剛剛蔡宇委員花了非常多的時間去解釋一大堆有的沒的但他就不看為什麼我要寫第二項第二款到第八款的補助費用由立法委員代理委員給付"},{"start":42072.028,"end":42097.658,"text":"不就是不要變成所謂的大水庫嗎如果不寫它就變成大水庫大水庫你也不要代理給付你也不要那你到底要什麼在修法的過程中我們跟立法院的執行單位充分溝通這一切的機制就是按照現行的機制來做運作大家合法的申報助理金額由立法院撥交給助理賬戶沒有進到立委口袋的問題"},{"start":42099.098,"end":42122.8,"text":"剛剛也有很多委員開始講起了歷史故事我實在忍不住我本來不想講這一段故事的但既然都講了我就殘忍一點吧我手邊這一份資料是立法院公報第107卷第93期委員會的紀錄所以我沒有搞錯的話不是在第九屆就是在第十屆曾經剛剛有很多民進黨委員講說我們應該要很好的法治化專法我提醒各位"},{"start":42123.32,"end":42144.955,"text":"在當初民進黨過半的時候就有委員提出了助理的專訪而且針對各項的待遇啊確實也有很多合理的提升當初助理工會是正份的但是這份資料是助理工會我去請教他的時候他提供給我的當初民進黨黨團裡面最位高權重的那個人在委員會裡面的討論是說"},{"start":42147.356,"end":42172.993,"text":"這些助理要為了自己的發展而努力他們來這裡不是為了賺錢所以這位位高權重的人因為在民進黨黨團說話其他人不會有別的意見連立法院當初的秘書長林志佳都說我們是不是大家可以來研究看看這位位高權重的委員說我認為行不通不必再研究了"},{"start":42173.954,"end":42194.24,"text":"然後這些本來可以幫助理加薪的法案就沒有然後了民進黨曾經在立法院過半你們如果版本這麼好這麼傑出你們這麼在乎助理的待遇跟條件為什麼你們當初在多數在過半的時候你們不通過"},{"start":42195.16,"end":42220.823,"text":"然後我們到今天承受攻擊提出合理的助理加薪的法案的時候你們抹黑 你們貝殼你們莫名其妙的冗長發言浪費大家的時間是啊 助理在陪我們加班啦但要是不是聽你們這些汙染諱語我們早就下班啦感謝藍白黨團的團結合作民進黨做不到的事情我們幫你做 謝謝"},{"start":42239.172,"end":42246.577,"text":"再一次呼籲各位委員尊重發言委員的權益好嗎 拜託大家現在我們接下來請沈博洋委員請發言"},{"start":42256.864,"end":42274.961,"text":"今天這個劉許廷委員上來發言兩次這個國民黨的委員在下面叫好我一直以為我就想說這個國民黨委員對自己的助理到底苛刻搞不好只是一個都市傳說但我現在發現看起來是真的 為什麼他們好像對你有提供給你們正確的法律意見"},{"start":42276.055,"end":42292.095,"text":"你們完全搞錯法條的解釋耶你們連對第六條那個地方民大的解釋也是完全錯誤的耶到底助理們是給你們什麼資訊還是要害你們啊第六條剛剛蔡議員已經講得很清楚了那個叫做議員助理的補助費"},{"start":42294.663,"end":42308.914,"text":"劉雪婷委員提的是立法委員補助費請問立法委員跟立法委員助理這四個字跟六個字怎麼會是一樣的呢這個定義根本不同啊請問公務人員任用法裡面的公務員跟刑法的公務員都叫公務員定義會一樣嗎"},{"start":42310.336,"end":42328.919,"text":"今天強制猥褻公然猥褻跟散佈猥褻物品都一樣在刑法請問猥褻的定義會一樣嗎當然不一樣啊議員的薪資結構跟立法委員的薪資結構完全不同欸議員今天是研究費是出席費是交通費全部都是用補助的字眼立法委員不是欸他的薪資是直接定在說跟部長對齊欸"},{"start":42330.14,"end":42357.503,"text":"他的定義不同耶再來第六條的修法有內控機制耶請問我們這一次有內控機制嗎為什麼內控機制重要因為有沒有內控機制才是法院是否能夠認定你到底有沒有虛領嘛你到底有沒有叫他回捐嘛你沒有那個時報時效的那個機制定在那邊的話請問要怎麼認定詐領你們就是故意好像提出了一個非常完善的法制結果裡面呢該有的機制該保護助理的方式完全沒有嘛"},{"start":42358.223,"end":42382.318,"text":"第三個剛剛提到的代為給付議員裡面有規定代為給付嗎沒有啊那你們為什麼要訂代為給付這幾個字理由是什麼就是因為你們把立法委員補助費當作那個是立法委員本人的費用嘛所以你代他做給付不是嗎那你代他做給付之後立法委員的費用他自己就不能夠詐欺自己啊他自己也沒有詐領的問題啊這就是你們的陽謀嘛"},{"start":42383.799,"end":42411.156,"text":"剛剛還說這就是現行機制我們只是把它明文化如果這是現行機制那幹嘛要修法不用修法按照條文本來的文字不就好了嗎所以從頭到尾都在騙人你們的目的其實非常簡單民眾黨剛剛配合還用了一個下一屆開始試用我要告訴大家這一件事情最主要就是要配合要讓法院在法官在做判決的時候它有一個依據這個依據是什麼"},{"start":42411.736,"end":42431.901,"text":"就是立法委員在修法的時候針對過往的歷史有過什麼討論所以最後呢認為這個就是立法委員本人的費用法院只要營養這個精神就可以把相關的案件判成無罪你們就是為了這一件事情嗎所以不要再欺騙社會大眾法盲啊 還鼓掌欸丟不丟臉啊你們好 謝謝沈博洋委員的發言 謝謝"},{"start":42442.438,"end":42449.572,"text":"接下來我們要請林月琴委員請發言洪孟楷委員請準備"},{"start":42462.096,"end":42482.653,"text":"今天藍白兩黨的荒腔走板我再補一個最荒謬也最打臉的細節在國民黨民眾黨這次的法條第32條專業加級裡面限制只有律師會計師司法官我是一個社工師那我就要問同樣是國家考試同樣是專業證照社工師呢"},{"start":42486.656,"end":42515.635,"text":"社工是正照放在藍白的法條裡面答案是一文不值一毛錢家籍都沒有給你們的法條就是在對全國的社工說一句話你們不夠專業我個人在未還委員會天天看到長照三網社會救助弱勢家庭的支持兒少保護的第一線不是靠口號撐起來的是靠第一線的社工每天在現場把制度撐起來結果你們現在的制度設計是"},{"start":42517.136,"end":42534.727,"text":"律師、會計師、證照的助理加一萬五社工、社安網會接住人的算齡而且我從昨天黨團協商就一直講牽扯到納稅人的錢牽扯到制度的法案為什麼不好好在委員會好好的審查"},{"start":42535.467,"end":42554.765,"text":"偏要禁服惡毒便宜行事你們怕被檢驗結果反而造成專業歧視原來藍白兩黨你們這麼藐視社共事嗎原來藍白兩黨的眼裡只剩下律師會計師司法官才算專業嗎劉喜廷你還好意思說你通過了專業加急"},{"start":42556.346,"end":42574.371,"text":"如果你們真的能在委員會好好討論那當然就可以好好討論到底有哪些專業可以讓政策法律更好以上謝謝林月琴委的發言接下來我們最後一位登記第八號洪孟凱委員請發言"},{"start":42588.53,"end":42605.353,"text":"主席各位立院同仁我想我們今天在這邊共同討論立法院組織法其實追根究柢重點還是一個剛剛我聽了那麼多民進黨的委員輪方上來發言有人講說不應該用補助兩個字可能會造成有違法的狀況"},{"start":42606.474,"end":42630.857,"text":"法令就有明文規定現行法令絕對不應該來去做濫用但另外一個部分也有看到有民進黨委員有講是說如果說要提升助理的待遇能夠增加助理的感謝助理的辛勞的話也是可以來支持也是可以來討論那我們就想問如果真的如此的話那請問一下民進黨委員你們的版本在哪裡"},{"start":42632.182,"end":42657.274,"text":"我們現在討論那麼久到目前為止希望能夠讓立法品質提升希望能夠增加我們助理的待遇那我們就大家一起共同來坐下來好好研議啊剛剛一直在講是說如果你們可以把補助兩次拿掉的話那我們可以來充分溝通啊那我請教民進黨委員那何不提出你們的版本呢"},{"start":42658.191,"end":42673.207,"text":"再來我想請現在在現場持續看直播的助理們好好的理解到底今天是誰在支持我們助理的待遇能夠提升而誰又再是一味的直接反對"},{"start":42674.088,"end":42690.83,"text":"如果說真的那麼重視我們每一位助理同仁大家辛苦的付出 辛苦的來給予我們共同參與立法的過程的話那過去八年 民進黨全面執政 民進黨國會過半的時候為什麼沒有想過要幫國會助理來增加一點點待遇呢"},{"start":42692.608,"end":42712.12,"text":"這才是重點我們不希望每一次討論都是口諱而實不至每一次站在這個台上都在講說我們也希望能夠共同努力但是從頭到尾沒有看到民進黨委員的版本剛剛牛水婷講得非常保守啊"},{"start":42712.58,"end":42722.7,"text":"因為過去到現在當民進黨全面執政國會多數的時候想要討論這一塊也被民進黨自己給阻擋下來"},{"start":42724.116,"end":42751.819,"text":"最後一開始有講是說不要我們有自肥所謂的自肥所以我們等一下會再討論下一個條文的時候實施日期就從第12屆立法委員就職日開始實施我們現在看到制度的不足我們現在看到制度有可以增進的地方我們來做負責任的修法讓下一屆的立法院能夠來施行何錯之有"},{"start":42752.62,"end":42770.513,"text":"鬼也是你神也是你什麼都要你們在講拜託行行好當助理同仁陪同我們一起來開會的時候到底是誰在增加助理的權益而誰又在阻擋請各位助理同仁好好的睜大雙眼看清楚謝謝"},{"start":42775.953,"end":42784.318,"text":"好 我們現在開始進行表決台灣民眾黨團在修正動議條文現在有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團在修正動議條文 請按贊成反對 請按反對時間一分鐘 現在開始"},{"start":42871.175,"end":42871.495,"text":"我們現在進行第35條請宣讀"},{"start":42888.598,"end":42906.517,"text":"委員 紐許庭的提案第35條本法自公佈日實行本法中華民國96年11月30日及12月7日修正之條文自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起實行本法中華民國115年1月30日修正之條文自115年1月1日實行"},{"start":42907.438,"end":42930,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議第35條本法自公佈日施行本法中華民國96年11月30日及12月7日修正之條文自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起施行本法中華民國115年1月30日修正之條文自立法院第12屆立法委員就職日起施行之"},{"start":42931.481,"end":42959.608,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團再修正統議第35條本法自公佈日施行本法中華民國96年11月30日及12月7日修正之條文自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起施行本法中華民國115年1月30日修正之條文自立法院第12屆立法委員就職日起施行宣布完畢現在以登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先我們請中嘉賓委員發言王逸川委員請準備"},{"start":42976.342,"end":42983.331,"text":"國民黨派了一個牛許庭委員講了三次 要漏氣四次因為底下的陳玉珍幫他又多漏氣了一次"},{"start":42984.722,"end":43002.08,"text":"為什麼呢因為他剛剛很興奮的拿一個條文給我看他說憲法正用條文第八條剛好那個時候我在當國民大會代表他說立法委員之報酬或待遇應以法律定之除年度通案調整外單獨增加報酬或待遇之規定"},{"start":43002.813,"end":43019.665,"text":"因字次借起實施講得很好啊如果這個條文真的就是增加立法委員的待遇或報酬當然要定在法律裡面啊要用下借實施嘛再度的自證己罪這個就是被自己認為這是立法委員自己的待遇"},{"start":43020.714,"end":43047.024,"text":"我們知道嗎 剛剛沈波洋委員有提到立法委員的待遇從哪裡來大家有沒有想到立法委員刑非法第13條立法委員待遇是自己比照中央部會首長之標準啊如果真的要調高立委的待遇 調這第13條而且次界才能適用符合政協條文第8條的規定完完全全 正正確確"},{"start":43048.476,"end":43069.643,"text":"國民黨不由此圖 要修改這個條文剛剛我們莊委會一直誇獎陳玉珍委員說 假班開大門走大路要幫忙除罪化 其實除罪有兩種 失之有兩種如果這個條文修過了 能有助於目前國民黨內因為助理費而受到官司困擾的某位原委員"},{"start":43070.748,"end":43089.548,"text":"那麼剛剛我們莊委員也說了沒有用因為在修法之前你這個事情作用的關係控白刑法沒有辦法發生作用但是沈伯拉委員也說了如果從下一屆開始實施立法委員把助理會放到自己口袋裡就完全沒有辦法判罪啊"},{"start":43090.222,"end":43101.934,"text":"除罪除不了嚴委員的罪但是除罪可以除掉十二屆如果牛委員再度當選他這時候光明正大拿這筆錢是不會犯法的"},{"start":43102.768,"end":43129.217,"text":"所以呢我們要告訴你們除罪的效果救不了其他的委員救不了現在的委員保得住以後的委員所以我還是要再說明一下可能我們要的三訴當然很疑惑為什麼這個條文在第二項的時候寫本法中華民國九十六年十一月三十日及十二月七日修正這條文自立法院第七屆開始實施呢因為第七屆立法院的選舉在九十七年一月十三號"},{"start":43131.223,"end":43155.108,"text":"就剛好是在第六屆的立委的最後的一個月的最後的院會修了這樣的一個立法院組織法拿給第七屆的立法委員用這個不是自肥什麼是自肥如果國民黨真的要下屆試用不用今天等到2027年、2028年再來修法不要浪費大家的時間"},{"start":43157.642,"end":43161.706,"text":"好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言 接下來我們請王一川委員發言 劉許廷委員請準備主席 剛才這個國民黨第一位委員 阿凱阿 阿凱阿今天說什麼民進黨沒版本 你就是都沒來開會 侯孟愷你就是沒來開會"},{"start":43181.974,"end":43204.629,"text":"今年12月 許智傑啊 拿一個叫立法委員公會助理任用法一般司法法治委員會有開會啦 人家都有討論過 那是你沒來 還要還要更認真咧趴下趴下 趴下 比較不中情這張給牛市廷講就好 你敢不敢 你就卡到鼻子不能講 趕快講 趕快鬧了第二"},{"start":43209.2,"end":43214.224,"text":"這個國民黨想說我要從這條民眾黨來跟你們鬥三天你們不知道你們去給民眾黨駭到柴子要走哪裡民眾黨的這個修正版本啊"},{"start":43220.886,"end":43233.993,"text":"那個說明欄為什麼這麼多情策呢?這領光發光要用的時候要看民眾黨修正版本的說明欄我現在在告訴你們幾件事?乾淨的事你起來我們改!這說明欄要不然你叫民眾黨改說明欄他怎麼說呢?他說這因為單獨政策報酬後代議"},{"start":43240.476,"end":43252.629,"text":"所以要次階開可以實施第32條第二項規定其性質為立法委員不是會讓人屬立法委員待遇調整之範疇"},{"start":43254.696,"end":43281.258,"text":"屬於立法委員待遇調整之範疇民眾黨跟國民黨說說這條不是什麼處理啦這條是立法委員的待遇啦待遇喔 說得簡單的叫做心碎啦立法委員要自維的調心碎民眾黨的意思是說 如果要自己調心碎要在後一階開始民眾黨定義非常的清楚"},{"start":43282.259,"end":43309.355,"text":"所以後面如果法官要引用你不可以引用陶晋的要用後面的說明欄在立法會討論的規定都要成為法官的心臟你千勝萬勝不算就說民眾黨六個今天要離開 最好把你衝一招衝了 整個都解剖了你有沒有看到我看你現在在看文章看到 請你注意民眾黨大衝一招衝到你海底要走過了"},{"start":43312.605,"end":43341.58,"text":"好 謝謝王一川委員的發言接下來接下來我們請劉許廷委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備謝謝主席這次院會大概是本席的名字被提最多次的時候這很多人知道都不知道我這名字中間這個是念許今天應該大家都知道了謝謝大家"},{"start":43342.946,"end":43366.415,"text":"這個今天這個三分鐘的時間我想要跟大家報告一下這個立法修正的過程很多人講說這個法案是近乎二讀最後會出現借屍還魂的突襲版本我很早就跟大家講絕對不會發生這樣的事情原因是這樣的我們的立法院有黨團協商的制度之所以有協商冷凍期就是希望大家善用這樣子的一個時間理性的溝通讓修出來的法案有很好的品質可以各方的執行"},{"start":43367.415,"end":43377.441,"text":"我的辦公室從2015年的1月7號就已經炒你了第一份國會助理的家信2025年謝謝你的提醒2025年的1月7號就已經炒你了"},{"start":43379.249,"end":43407.056,"text":"就已經草擬了第一份的助理加薪法案在這樣法案的一個過程之中我們各方溝通出現了這樣子的一個修法的契機之後我們跟工會開了無數次的會大家都說立法院的助理工會好像沒有發揮功能但我從不這麼認為當助理們團結起來為自己的待遇團結喊聲的時候我們就應該有人去回應去試著納入他們的需求"},{"start":43408.109,"end":43416.926,"text":"所以也才有了剛剛發言的時候我講的很多奇奇怪怪的歷史故事但為了請幫老人家稍存體面我就不再贅述了"},{"start":43417.964,"end":43442.952,"text":"但助理工會的期待一直都很單純希望有資深加緊 希望有專業加緊 希望有各項的津貼補助不希望國會助理在這個政治工作裡面是被遺忘的一群人因此在這一個月的協商冷凍期裡面我們一方面跟助理工會密切的對話跟溝通二方面我們也要跟這個法案通過之後最大的執行機關立法院來進行密切的溝通"},{"start":43443.98,"end":43458.291,"text":"為什麼會出現日出條款是因為我們在跟立法院溝通的時候立法院的秘書長提醒我們這個從法律上的解釋來講它廣泛上因為是補助所以它當然屬於待遇的一環這是法律定性的問題既然如此"},{"start":43459.372,"end":43474.506,"text":"修正之後你必然要附帶日出條款否則可能會被宣告違憲立法院的建議我們當然應該採納我們也跟各方溝通很多人講這是民眾黨的修正動議版本但你真的覺得民眾黨的修正動議跟國民黨之間不會進行合理的溝通嗎"},{"start":43475.347,"end":43503.172,"text":"修正這個法案我們說服了黨內黨團大部分的全部的成員也說服了民眾黨黨團的成員共提了修正動議我們確定這一份通過的法案立法院可以順利的執行我們也保留了立法院設計相關機制的一些準備的時間所以大家可以放心這樣子的法案就是一部徹徹底底的助理加薪法案沒有自肥也不是什麼除罪這些民進黨委員提出來的廢話可以差不多得了感謝"},{"start":43505.59,"end":43516.628,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員的發言 謝謝我們接下來謝謝我們接下來請沈伯陽委員請發言莊瑞雄委員請準備"},{"start":43526.482,"end":43551.475,"text":"我是希望牛許廷委員不要再上來發言了就像剛剛嘉賓委員講的 越講越多錯啦第一個呢 講到淨富二讀這件事情我們民進黨是有版本的就跟你們之前國會改革一樣啊把我們的版本全部都丟包啊再來你說跟助理工會討論助理工會的參與率 助理工會現在有辦法依照現在的參與率去代表所有的助理嗎"},{"start":43552.506,"end":43571.217,"text":"所以這個狀況就是你現在越上來講就越讓大家知道這個程序有多麼不合理我那天問立法院所以如果按照這樣修的話要增加多少的支出?粗估大概六億請問六億的費用直接進富二讀是合理嗎?"},{"start":43572.208,"end":43585.956,"text":"這不需要在委員會好好討論嗎你丟包我們的法案丟包我們的預算丟包我們任何的改革然後號稱說在幫助我們其實根本就不是你們只不過是為了自己只不過是為了圖利只不過是為了除罪化"},{"start":43586.94,"end":43601.898,"text":"而這些程序完全夫之缺乳要是今天有在委員會好好討論的話到底哪一些補助然後呢最後從哪一些預算來指引這不是清清楚楚嗎再來剛剛還提到協商很不好意思協商我都有參加"},{"start":43602.935,"end":43620.15,"text":"我協商所提出來的問題 剛剛也都提過我協商所提出來的意見你們一次都沒有採納我再講一次你剛剛說這個就是按照現行的法制來編列好 那為什麼你要把那個依照立法院編列直接要把它改成補助費呢你不用改啊"},{"start":43620.911,"end":43645.274,"text":"如果就是按照現行法制你幹嘛要改那個文字為什麼要提新的修法理由這就是給法院武器嘛就是給他新的解釋嘛而且我再說一次按照你講的如果今天就是為了助理就是為了增加大家的福利那很簡單因為現在國人有疑慮認為說你在幫這一個所謂的虛報還有所謂的回捐在除罪化你只要加一句話就好"},{"start":43646.695,"end":43664.049,"text":"說只要未來有這個所謂的虛報的有所謂人頭助理的有所謂回圈的仍然回歸貪污條例仍然回歸刑法的使公務員登載不實這樣不就結束了嗎這樣我們今天就不要浪費時間耶加幾個字就好啦"},{"start":43664.83,"end":43693.897,"text":"你只要告訴大家本來說是違法的那個繼續就是違法我們國民黨不會為違法背書就那幾個字今天大家鼓掌通過說我們要幫這個所謂的助理來增加福利不就解決了嗎我在協商提了多少次一次都沒有回應我剛剛在32條第一個發言也講過也一樣沒有回應為什麼不敢寫嘛連今天說一件事情是違法都不敢寫那你不就是在為違法富豪嗎"},{"start":43695.117,"end":43707.265,"text":"所以拜託國人不要再被他們騙了從頭到尾就像剛剛翊川委員講的就是透過修法理由要給法院一個武器讓他們有一個新的解釋方式實時達到除罪化謝謝"},{"start":43733.567,"end":43754.593,"text":"主席 各位我們立法院的同仁 各位媒體朋友其實已經最後一個了心情還是很沉重國民黨提出這個案子會造成什麼樣的影響我相信中國國民黨在場的委員我就不談民眾黨了你們有幾個人看過條文你們如果仔細去看的話你會發現這個條文多不合理三個條文而已"},{"start":43764.197,"end":43783.326,"text":"32條裡面他所講的第一個我們產生的爭議說你把他定性成變成是立法委員的補助費這第一個社會華藍會認為你是要除罪話任何有一點點嘗試的人稍微感覺一下就知道這個法案不尋常第二個"},{"start":43784.38,"end":43801.395,"text":"你再去把它看看你所在32條你這第三項裡面所提到的是說按照每一位立法委員每年稅費的五倍的公費為什麼是五倍你為什麼不加一個五倍為上限"},{"start":43803.203,"end":43820.461,"text":"你為什麼要預留一個國會議員可以去用人頭可以去用虛報來把這些該屬於公費助理該屬於人民的納稅錢的人民的名字名單把它讓立法委員放到口袋裡面去加幾個字就可以了33條是一樣啊"},{"start":43825.011,"end":43841.937,"text":"我看國民黨上來以後你們認為好像是這一次我當助理爭取到好多的福利你們想為這個法案來賺一點政治上的紅利門都沒有為什麼從陳玉珍的版本要把他除作話"},{"start":43843.373,"end":43863.669,"text":"到社會活動裡面恐慌了以後你們進付二讀提出這樣的一個修正案你們本來是要到監獄裡面去截球被逮到了社會大眾說國民黨他們要去截球要去除酒了你們馬上穿上聖誕老公公的衣服說不是我們是聖誕節來發餅乾你們這種心態社會大眾怎麼會不知道"},{"start":43874.431,"end":43886.538,"text":"如果說你們真的是為助理好朝野協商我就跟你們講啦加幾個字啊不可以虛用人頭啊不可以虛報啊加幾個字民進黨馬上簽字你們不敢啊為什麼不敢這個案子通過沒完沒了到了法院以後全部都是爭議"},{"start":43903.083,"end":43930.972,"text":"每一位打官司的人都跟你講立法院已經通過了那是屬於立法委員的實質補助啊那是我的實質薪資的一範圍一部分啊為什麼我們立個法我們先給你示警你們全部都不聽你們還用偷渡禁夫惡毒的方法好 謝謝專委選委員的反應 謝謝"},{"start":43936.991,"end":43953.376,"text":"花園黑我們現在開始進行處理我們表決台灣民眾黨團在修正動議條文現在有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘贊成台灣民眾黨團在修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":44032.233,"end":44036.756,"text":"抱怨會報告表決結果出席委員108位贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數第35條照台灣民眾黨團再修正動議條文通過"},{"start":44048.203,"end":44049.003,"text":"請按贊成 反對 請按反對時間一分鐘 現在開始"},{"start":44143.154,"end":44147.222,"text":"報告委員會報告表決結果出席108位贊成60位反對48位贊成者多數本案繼續進行三讀請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":44155.287,"end":44177.541,"text":"第三十二条 立法委员每人得至公费处理八人之十字人由委员聘用前与其后进退 并使用劳动基础法制规定但公费处理离职后六个月内 再让公费处理者其工作年资因与病迹立法委员应每年以公务预算编列下列立法委员补助费用一 每一立法委员办公事务费用"},{"start":44179.662,"end":44203.322,"text":"2.按每一立法委员每年税费5倍之公费助理工资及以劳动法令规定应由雇主负担之相关费用3.公费助理之专业加给4.公费助理之资深加给5.公费助理实施健康检查及文康活动费用6.公费助理之年终工作奖金7.公费助理之在职进修费用8.公费助理之服务金"},{"start":44204.062,"end":44228.572,"text":"其上第一款费用之项目及标准如附表在中华民国102年1月1日实行第二项第二款之第八款补助费用由立法院代理立法院给付第二项第三款专业家籍以公费助理领有下列证书之一者为限同时领有多种证书者除考试级的证书及职业证书则依采集一次外并得与累计"},{"start":44230.286,"end":44254.287,"text":"1.律师或会计师考试级的证书律师或会计师证书但受惩戒于停止执行职业务期间或曾受署名之惩戒处分者不适用之2.司法官考试公务人员法治会计或关税会计类科考试级的证书但曾受免除职务确实剥夺或减少退休职务金或休职之惩戒处分者不适用之"},{"start":44255.187,"end":44280.621,"text":"3.公立婚姻法利亚日斯利大学或符合教育部裁判规定之国外大学硕士以上学位证书但仅采集最高学位证书一次2.第四款资深家籍以公费助理年资在四年以上缴线2.第三款及第四款家籍由公费助理检举相关证明文件经所属立法委员审核后向立法院提出并依下列规定自提出日期发给"},{"start":44281.181,"end":44289.751,"text":"请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目"},{"start":44301.123,"end":44316.576,"text":"三 领友公务人员普通考试或特准考试四等会计或关税会计类科考试级的证书证每月新台币一万元四 领友硕士学位证书证每月新台币三千元五 领友博士学位证书证每月新台币一万二千元"},{"start":44317.717,"end":44333.593,"text":"6.年次在4年上8年未满整每月新台币6000元7.年次在8年上12年未满整每月新台币8000元8.年次在12年上整每月新台币1万元能有第二项第三款专业交集之人有第五项第一款单书或"},{"start":44334.073,"end":44356.549,"text":"或第二款代书之进行时,因此事实发生之日起30日内,将据相关资料通知所属立法委员及立法院,并自事实发生之次月起,停止发给专业佳绩,未通知而致意领或其证书由速及近往实习效率之行行者,并因返还已确定之专业佳绩,及因此所受领之年终工作奖金。"},{"start":44357.95,"end":44376.741,"text":"由一領婚姻返還專業家計及年終工作獎金遵行者立法院應輸免 並且於30日內返還藉其人為返還者移送行政執行第二項第五款費用之對象項目方法標準及其他應遵行之事項由立法院列定之自中華民國114年1月1日實行"},{"start":44378.462,"end":44404.161,"text":"第二项第六款年终工作奖金以公费助理月支工资专业家及其资深家及之和技术比较军工教育员年终工作奖金方给月数方给支第二项第七款费用以补助年资在一年上市公费助理经所属立法委员同意于公余时间至公立或依法立案之次立大学入学清修或选修学分较为限每一立法委员及党团每学期至多补助二人"},{"start":44404.821,"end":44421.934,"text":"公費助理在職勤修所修課目成績均及格且平均達70分以上或相當難節奏每學期補助其學費雜費學分費學費學雜費及學雜費基數之勤修費有三分之二但每人每學期補助金額不等於新台幣2萬元"},{"start":44423.857,"end":44442.595,"text":"第二项第八款抚慰金以公费处理与聘用期间或依法令留职停薪期间死亡者违宪一次发给请移属新台币70万元并比照劳工退休金条例移属前领退休金顺位及方式办理但故意自杀拒补致死或无移属者不予发给"},{"start":44443.596,"end":44470.735,"text":"第三十三条 每届立法委员选举当选席次党三席且席次交通至五个政党 得各组成党团席次相同时 以抽签决定组成之立法委员以其所属政党参加党团每一政党以组成一党团为线每一党团至少需维持三人以上未能以前项规定组成党团之政党或五党执政委员 得加入其他党团党团为党五个时 得合组四人以上之政团"},{"start":44471.215,"end":44493.808,"text":"依第四項將名單送交人事處之政團以席次交託者優先組成黨政團總數合計以五個為限前項政團准有有關黨團之規定各黨團應於每年首次會期開議日前一日將各黨團所屬委員名單經黨團負責人簽名後送交人事處以公認定委員所參加之黨團"},{"start":44494.668,"end":44497.67,"text":"请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目"},{"start":44513.218,"end":44528.209,"text":"前线限制公费助理于中华民国87年3月1日至94年6月30日间由各党团领选并由其对外政委人或该政党聘用并实际服务于党团之助理联资的办理劳动基准法"},{"start":44528.929,"end":44530.451,"text":"報院會三讀條文已經宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正"},{"start":44557.236,"end":44582.774,"text":"沒有文字修正我們現在有國民黨團依據立法院自宣刑事法第十一條規定提請將全案負表決我們現在要進行全案表決贊成全案通過者請按贊成反對者請按反對棄權者請按棄權現在有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":44655.333,"end":44668.601,"text":"報告表決結果,在場委員108位贊成60位,反對48位贊成者多數,全案表決通過我們現在做以下決議立法院主持法第32條,第33條及第35條條文修正通過"},{"start":44679.653,"end":44691.043,"text":"本案完成立法程序後由委員登記發言我們開始進行並截止發言登記首先我們請陳培宇委員發言 牛許廷委員請準備"},{"start":44701.172,"end":44726.255,"text":"各位同仁先說聲晚安雖然是塞堵後發言但我想要快速的總結這一個會期整個立法院到底發生了多少荒謬的事情到目前為止總預算延宕155天到目前為止國防預算沒有辦法交付委員會審查討論到目前為止院版才化法依然卡在程序委員會我要告訴大家這個會期"},{"start":44727.516,"end":44751.93,"text":"藍白共同推了哪些荒謬的法案第一個衛廣法也就是中天條款第二個黨產條例也就是救國團檔案第三個二修才化法就是自己先修了一個最爛的版本再想要自己救自己接下來還有地方制度法也就是所謂的李四川條款還有年金倒退改革的法案還有眷改條例"},{"start":44753.03,"end":44778.811,"text":"獨立特定族群還有公事法卡了台灣的公事實質運作這就是這一季的藍白所做的荒謬事情我還要告訴大家藍白還提了非常多的荒謬提案新興計畫不可審總預算只敢談新興計畫的預算動之甚至譴責卓院長還提了一個打假球的賴清德總統彈劾案"},{"start":44779.511,"end":44808.693,"text":"不要民進黨過關的譴責案就是不願意共同譴責軍演在這個荒謬的時刻我要拜託國人一起記得當國民黨的總召國民黨的主席國民黨的前總統拼命在向中共示好但是民進黨的總召民進黨的主席跟民進黨的總統是跟台灣的民主法治站在一起向國際的民主友人喊話我們希望叫更多民主的朋友"},{"start":44809.153,"end":44831.987,"text":"我要告訴大家台灣人值得更好的負責任政治台灣人值得一個民主負責政治請大家一起向前看摒棄這些不要臉親中舔共賣台的立法委員好 辛苦 謝謝陳培瑞的發言接下來我們請劉許廷委員 還有侯孟楷委員請準備"},{"start":44838.6,"end":44844.541,"text":"謝謝主席 各位同仁我是立法院在野黨黨團最年輕的立法委員"},{"start":44846.414,"end":44872.97,"text":"我從事政治工作的核心價值跟最重要的信念跟目標就是透過自身的參與政治鼓勵更多的青年才俊願意投入政治工作我們今天小有成就是希望能夠鼓勵更多學法正相關學有所長的年輕人可以不再害怕政治勇敢地投入這一行因此我們對於基層政治工作者的待遇一直都有所要求"},{"start":44873.971,"end":44891.247,"text":"在這段時間遭受各式各樣的非議但是為了信念我和我的辦公室同仁選擇勇往直前在這個過程中我要特別感謝我的辦公室主任曾益成法案主任黃沐毅他們是這部法案背後催生最重要的力量"},{"start":44892.088,"end":44919.095,"text":"我們要謝謝國會助理工會的隨時提點跟經驗分享讓我們在法條設計的時候能夠兼顧理想與現實謝謝國民黨團充分的授權讓我可以自在的溝通找出最好的平衡點也謝謝民眾黨今天最後一天堅守立法院我們的戰友可以一起完成這些民進黨多數都沒有辦法完成的重要的工程"},{"start":44920.255,"end":44929.821,"text":"國會助理是很多很多政治工作者的第一站我只是希望他們有更好的待遇他們能夠受到社會的尊重如此而已謝謝大家"},{"start":44946.795,"end":44974.573,"text":"主席各位同仁牛許廷委員是第十一屆藍營最年輕的立委我是第十屆藍營最年輕的立委我其實本來不想發言但我沒有辦法忍受當執政黨所有的委員輪方上台砲轟針對我們特定的某一個委員很抱歉我們要講我們理直氣順但我們更重要的是我們是一個團結的群體我們不會接受任何"},{"start":44975.393,"end":45000.708,"text":"群體政黨對我們的政黨工作者有任何一絲一毫的惡意攻擊跟抹黑造謠牛許廷委員在這個過程裡面找了助理工會找了立法院法治局找了相關單位來回修正討論持續溝通就是希望能夠增進立法院助理的專業佳績以及品質"},{"start":45002.479,"end":45019.235,"text":"這樣子的一個做法居然被站著說話不腰疼過去八年沒有處理我們現在處理了我們希望的是能夠讓未來台灣的立法院有更好的助理待遇以提升我們全體的立法品質"},{"start":45020.516,"end":45048.961,"text":"這是我們共同的目標也是共同的期許我們更要講我們現在過去以及未來不會讓我們任何一個立委同仁孤單因為我們會群體群力繼續為台灣繼續為全民打拚跟奮鬥最後今天剛剛大家也釐清一一從早上的國事論壇我就一直提到感謝民眾黨過去六位委員兩年的時間我們充分配合"},{"start":45049.583,"end":45076.692,"text":"讓台灣的主流民意能夠彰顯未來我們一定會繼續努力台灣最難能可貴的地方在於多元包容而主流民意就是我們永遠的堅持祝福藍天永存白雲再現而藍天白雲共同為台灣為中華民國加油謝謝侯某凱文的發言謝謝報告委員會"},{"start":45078.806,"end":45091.597,"text":"國安委員會我們現在休息十分鐘十分鐘之後我們繼續進行藥事法跟藥害救濟法兩個法案的討論現在休息"},{"start":45655.304,"end":45658.786,"text":"我們現在進行討論事項第六案要是法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":45674.997,"end":45691.173,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開全體委員會議審查 召開草案會議由劉肇吉委員兼國擔任主席邀請田委員說明條要旨衛生福利部政務次長林靜穎說明條要旨回應委員田恩備備質詢令法務部經濟部引要列席備詢"},{"start":45692.734,"end":45696.117,"text":"我們現在請召集委員劉建國委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案今後審查會決議不須再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議"},{"start":45719.295,"end":45735.175,"text":"本案進一審查會議件進行處理我們現在進行逐條討論再補充也謝謝陳培瑜委員陪同我們一起來審查法案也謝謝黃國昌委員陪同我們一起來審查法案要是法請宣讀第二七條之二"},{"start":45735.695,"end":45763.224,"text":"第二十七条之二药商持有经中央卫生主管机关公告为必要药品之许可证者应就该许可证药品之制造输入及供应情形定期向中央卫生主管机关申报前项药商有无法继续制造输入或不足供应该药品之余时应正常于六个月前向中央卫生主管机关通报因天灾或其他不可规则之事由而未及通报者因自事时发生之次日期三十日内"},{"start":45763.624,"end":45779.401,"text":"向中央衛生主管機關通報第一項申報之方式內容範圍其間與前項通報之方式內容及其他相關事項之辦法由中央衛生主管機關定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第二七條之三"},{"start":45779.949,"end":45809.329,"text":"第二十七条之三,中央卫生主管机关与之息具有药品许可增值药品,有供应不足之余时,得将该情形登录于公开网站,并得专案核准该药品或其地带药品之制造或输入,不受第三十九条规定之限制。中央卫生主管机关为因应紧急或重大影响公共卫生事件,得就前项具有药品许可增值药品或专案核准制造输入之药品,限制其供应之范围,其间数量、对象方式或为其他限制措施。"},{"start":45810.21,"end":45823.413,"text":"第一项登录作业专栏核准之申请条件审查程序审查基准核准之废止及其他应遵行事项之办法由中央卫生主管机关定之宣读完毕照审查会条件通过请宣读第48条之二"},{"start":45823.854,"end":45853.045,"text":"第四指法條之二有下列執行之一者中央衛生主管機關的專案核准特定藥品之製造或輸入不受第39條規定之限制一為預防診治危及生命或嚴重失能之疾病且國內上無適當藥品或合適定來療法二因應緊急或重大影響公共衛生情勢之需要有下列執行之一者中央衛生主管機關的廢止前項核准必要捨得另一申請者就未使用之藥品限期處理或回收一已有許"},{"start":45853.505,"end":45882.243,"text":"已有取得许可证之药品或有合适替代疗法可提供前项第一款情势之需要二 紧急或重大影响公共卫生情势已终结三 药品经中央卫生主管经过评估却有影响用药安全或医疗效能疑虑第一项专案和选择申请条件审查程序审查精准及其他应遵行事项之办法由中央卫生主管经过定之宣读完毕照审查会条文通过第55条维持现行条文请宣读第80条"},{"start":45882.694,"end":45907.939,"text":"第80條 藥物有下列情形之一 其製造或輸入之業者應即通知醫療機構 藥局及藥商並依規定期限收回市售品 聯同庫存品以並依本法有關規定處理1 原理有許可證 經公告禁止製造或輸入2 經醫法認定為未藥 劣藥或禁藥3 經醫法認定為不良醫療器材或未經核准而製造輸入之醫療器材"},{"start":45908.499,"end":45923.113,"text":"四 药物制造工厂经检查发现其药物确有损害使用者生命 身体或健康这事实会有损害之余五 制造输入药物许可证未申请展言或不准展言六 其他金中央卫生主管尽管公告应回收"},{"start":45923.773,"end":45940.108,"text":"製造輸入業者回收前項各款藥物時醫療機構、藥局及藥商應與配合第一項應回收這藥物其分級處置方法回收作業實施方式及其他應遵詢試上之辦法由中央衛生福利儲管機關定之宣讀完畢造審會條文通過請宣讀第94條"},{"start":45941.409,"end":45956.134,"text":"第九十四條違反第三十四條第一項第七十三條第二項第八十條第一項第五款及第六款或第二項規定之一者除新台幣二萬元上十萬元下罰款宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀第九十六條之一"},{"start":45956.536,"end":45980.401,"text":"第九十六條之一藥商違反第四十八條之一規定者除新台幣十萬元上二百萬元下罰還且經衛生主管機關令其限期改善藉其為改善者將被處罰並按次處罰藥商問議第二十七條之二第一項規定申報或申報是內容不實或問議統條第二項規定之期限通報者中央衛生主管機關等公佈該藥商名稱地址負責人姓名藥品名稱及違反情節"},{"start":45982.482,"end":45999.79,"text":"請結註納貨暫時違反者 並得處心台幣六萬元以上 三十萬元下罰款右上為本中央衛生主管機關一第二十七條十三第二項規定所為之限制措施者由中央衛生主管機關處心台幣六萬元以上 三十萬元下罰款並令其限期改善 即其未改善者按自處罰宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過 請宣讀第106條"},{"start":46003.26,"end":46019.394,"text":"第106條本法自公佈日施行本法中華民國95年5月30日修正公佈之條文自95年7月1日施行本法中華民國86年5月7日修正公佈之第53條107年1月31日修正公佈之第四章之一第92條"},{"start":46023.357,"end":46046.422,"text":"第一百條及第一百條之一一百十五年一月三十日修正之第二十七條之二第二十七條之三及第九十六條之一其實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報院會全案已經經過二讀現在三個黨團分別提議繼續進行三讀求院會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":46049.079,"end":46078.104,"text":"第二十七条之二药商持有经中央卫生主管机关公告为必要药品之许可证证应就该许可证药品之制造输入及供应情形定期向中央卫生主管机关宣报前项药商有无法继续制造输入或不足供应该药品之预示应至少于六个月前向中央卫生主管机关通报应添加或其他不可规则之事由而未及通报者应自事实发生之次日起三十日内向中央卫生主管机关通报"},{"start":46078.704,"end":46086.722,"text":"第一項申報之方式內容範圍其間與前項通報之方式內容及其他相關事項之辦法由中央衛生主管機關定之"},{"start":46088.243,"end":46112.703,"text":"第二十七条是三中央卫生主管机关于知悉具有药品许可证之药品有供应不足之余时可将该进行登录于公开网站并得专案核准跟药品或其电弹药品制造或输入不受第三十九条规定之限制中央卫生主管机关为因紧急或重大影响公共卫生事件得就其项具有药品许可证之药品或专案核准制造输入之药品"},{"start":46113.163,"end":46127.948,"text":"限制其供应制范围期间数量对象方式或为其他限制措施第一项登录作业专核准之申请条件审查程序审查基准核准之废止及其他应遵喜事项之办法由中央卫生主管机关定制"},{"start":46129.088,"end":46145.04,"text":"第48条之二有下令执行之一者中央卫生主管请问的专案核准特定药品之制造或输入不受第39条规定之限制一为预防诊治危及生命或严重是能治疾病且国内尚无适当药品或合适的疗法"},{"start":46146.24,"end":46167.713,"text":"2.因应紧急或重大影响公共卫生情势之需要,有下令进行之一,整个中央卫生主管机关的废纸钱箱和证必用时得令申请者就会使用之药品限期处理或回收。1.已有取得许可证之药品或有合适天台疗法可提供钱箱的第一款情势之需要。2.紧急或重大影响公共卫生情势已终结。"},{"start":46169.515,"end":46181.853,"text":"3.藥品進行中央衛生主管機關評估卻有影響用藥安全或醫療效能疑慮第一項專案核准之申請條件審查程序、審查基準及其他因罪形式上之辦法由中央衛生主管機關定之"},{"start":46183.752,"end":46203.321,"text":"第八十條 藥物有下列情形之一其製造或輸入之業者應及通知醫療機構 藥局及藥商並依規定期限收回市售品 連同庫存品以並依本法有關規定處理一 原林有許可證 經公告禁止製造或輸入二 經醫法認定為未藥 劣藥或禁藥"},{"start":46204.341,"end":46221.432,"text":"三 经医法认定为不良医疗器材或未经核准而制造输入之医疗器材四 药物制造工厂经检查发现其药物确有损害使用者生命身体或健康之事实或有损害之余五 制造输入药物许可证未申请展言或不准展言"},{"start":46221.992,"end":46250.278,"text":"六 其他經中央衛生主管機關公告應回收製造輸入業者回收前項各款藥物時醫療機構藥局及藥商應與配合第一項應回收這藥物其分級處置方法回收作業實施方式及其能應遵行事項之辦法由中央衛生福利主管機關定之第九十四條違反第三十四條第一項第七十三條第二項第八十條第一項第五款及第六款或第二項規定之疑者處心臺比二位元首十萬元相反還"},{"start":46252.079,"end":46270.613,"text":"第96條之一 藥商違反第48條之一規定者除新台幣10萬元以上200萬元相保還其經衛生主管儘管令其限期改善即其為改善者將被處罰並按次處罰藥商違依第20條之二第一項規定申報或申報之內容不實或違依同條第二項規定之期限通報者"},{"start":46271.073,"end":46295.898,"text":"中央衛生主管機關的公佈該藥商名稱、地址、負責人姓名、藥品名稱及違反情節情節重大或暫時違反者並得處新台幣6萬元以上、30萬元相罰還藥商違反中央衛生主管機關一第27條13第二項規定所謂之限制措施者由中央衛生主管機關處新台幣6萬元以上、30萬元相罰還並另期限其改善即其未改善者按次處罰"},{"start":46297.918,"end":46309.989,"text":"第106條本法自公佈日施行本法中華民國95年5月30日修正公佈之條文在95年7月1日施行本法中華民國86年5月7日修正公佈之第53條第107年1月31日修正公佈之第4章之一"},{"start":46316.354,"end":46335.445,"text":"第92條之一 第100條及第100條之一115年1月30日修正之第27條之二 第27條之三及第96條之一其實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢報院會三讀條文已經宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正"},{"start":46336.212,"end":46344.119,"text":"沒有文字修正我們現在做以下決議要是法增訂第27條之3條文並將第27條之2第48條之2第80條第94條第96條之1及第106條條文修正通過繼續處理審查會所做之附帶決議請議事人宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":46362.588,"end":46381.474,"text":"通過附帶決議二項行政機關與後續訂定相關辦法時應參佐世界衛生組織及其後續修正所揭示的公共衛生風險分級與評估原則予以具體規範二請衛生福利部與後續訂定第27條之三相關辦法"},{"start":46382.754,"end":46409.071,"text":"及配套措施時建立跨機關及跨利害關係人士溝通與討論平台納入藥品製造或供應者及醫療院所等意見宣讀完畢請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過我們先進行完成立法程序後之委員登記發言並截止發言登記首先請陳昭之委員發言 林倩琦委員請準備"},{"start":46419.495,"end":46427.038,"text":"主席 各位同事 這是藥事法醫台灣民眾黨的版本完成刪讀感謝食藥署在這個過程當中持續跟業界溝通也謝謝外環的同仁能夠支持我們黨的附帶決議這次修法牽動的是藥品供應的韌性 健保制度的運作還有藥商醫療院所跟病人之間高度複雜的責任關係"},{"start":46440.862,"end":46455.736,"text":"那條文當中所稱的這個緊急或重大影響公衛事件是一個影響範圍很廣一旦啟動會這個重大的這個後果也非常重大的法律概念所以不能只停留在抽象的用語本黨的負債決議要求衛福部在後續訂立相關的這個"},{"start":46457.518,"end":46480.591,"text":"需要辦法使能夠參考國際關注公衛緊急事件的概念把適用範圍判斷標準跟啟動程序具體化那麼其次藥品是否短缺如何替代以及它實際用量如何掌握都是牽涉到食藥署醫事司健保署以及藥商及醫療院所的實務運作所以我們也要求衛福部在訂定相關的作業辦法的時候能夠建立跨機關"},{"start":46481.912,"end":46499.715,"text":"跨利害關係人的協作跟溝通平台我們反覆強調這個法律賦予主管的這個機關權限應該是為了因應真正的公共危機而不是未來日後管理的一個便宜的工具因此不論是供應行為的這個限制措施或是後續的行政處理都應該要根據這個"},{"start":46500.836,"end":46507.839,"text":"比例原則跟正當的程序給予廠商陳述的意見跟機會避免因為資料錯估或是資訊的落差直接被認為是不實的申報不實受到處罰我們重點就是把制度能夠界限程序責任可克則我們現在用專業跟可克則性的這個基礎"},{"start":46520.764,"end":46537.361,"text":"確保資源用在對的地方讓藥品供應的韌性成為不只是口號而是讓台灣的醫療體系成為一個真正下一代的護國神山謝謝好 謝謝陳昭智委員的發言 謝謝我們接下來請林倩琦委員發言羅廷維委員請準備"},{"start":46548.499,"end":46568.04,"text":"院長、立院同仁、還有媒體朋友跟全國民眾大家好我們今天完成藥事法修正的三讀我們將從近年缺藥的風險與公共衛生經驗來出發來補強我國必要藥品供應的制度韌性讓政府在面對供應風險與公共衛生挑戰時有更及時、有效的因應工具"},{"start":46568.621,"end":46588.161,"text":"首先 加强国家对前端风险的及时掌握持有必要药品许可证的药商应该要定期向主管机关来申报药品的制造 输入及供应情形包括现有的库存 过去的每月货量以及未来供应的规划这让政府能够在药品短缺之前就提早预警"},{"start":46588.982,"end":46613.161,"text":"提早介入避免供應失衡演變成用藥的危機另外呢針對藥品供應不足的情形修法也可以強化即時調度的權限當藥品總供應量不足以因應當前需求的時候主管機關可以專案申請核准來製造或輸入不受既有的數量或程序的一個限制確保民眾必要用藥不中斷"},{"start":46613.941,"end":46641.479,"text":"更進一步的是在緊急重大影響公共衛生事件下主管機關得救專案核准藥品對其供應範圍期間數量對象或方式來採取必要的限制措施兼顧藥品公平分配與全國用藥的可敬性並擴大公共衛生事件的試用範圍不再僅限於急迫性的事件而涵蓋對公共衛生具有重大影響需要事前預防的風險情境"},{"start":46642.479,"end":46669.933,"text":"讓制度更具前瞻性這次藥事法的修正來補齊制度的空白落實事前的治理讓政府在保障用藥安全跟維護公共衛生之間有更穩健的一個法律依據行政部門能盡快的完成配套修法落實資訊的一個申報及供應的監測而立法院也將持續的監督確保法律真正成為守護民眾健康權益的後盾"},{"start":46672.948,"end":46677.52,"text":"謝謝林健吉委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請羅廷輝委員發言 王振旭委員請準備"},{"start":46690.066,"end":46709.833,"text":"兩年前政府的藥品在調度的時候嚴重失靈導致台灣發生了生理食鹽水輸液案短缺的亂象更嚴重的在後面衛福部在沒有明確的法源依據的情況之下進口未取得許可證的輸液供國人來使用"},{"start":46710.433,"end":46739.249,"text":"一旦發生了要害事故受害者卻無法依要害救濟法獲得補償當時衛福部前部長邱部長竟然跟我說他沒有積極的爭取本土的藥廠反而在缺乏法源依據下人以類推適用為違法決策來辯護實在令人難以接受今天要釋法跟待會要害救濟法要修正"},{"start":46739.969,"end":46759.518,"text":"也證實兩年前我在總質詢所揭發的行政弊端是國家帶頭違法的弊案在今年1月19 衛環委員會林靜怡次長也在當場終於為了兩年前違法進口輸液案跟國人道歉"},{"start":46760.558,"end":46786.163,"text":"必須我們要重演我們要趕緊的來提醒政府在這一次的藥品供應的政策跟產業的支持要徹底的檢討才能夠避免整個歷史的重演本次藥事法跟藥害救濟法的修法就是預警更前端在救濟做後盾的一個核心同時透過了缺藥的主控我們要主動的來監控"},{"start":46787.643,"end":46812.159,"text":"甚至是定時的我們要來申報的機制來掌握整個藥品的風險如今我們同時強化了專案的核准制度在確保用藥的制度下提升醫療的可進性並補強了整個藥害的救濟將專案進口的所有藥品納入保障我們做到了我們建立了這樣的機制預防在前 保障在後"},{"start":46814.253,"end":46818.367,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員的發言 謝謝接下來我們請登記最後一位王振旭委員請發言"},{"start":46834.42,"end":46858.466,"text":"主席 各位同仁 全國民眾鄉親今日藥事法及藥害救濟法修正案順利三讀讓臺灣的藥品供應管理從缺藥才處理的被動模式轉型為源頭有監測 危機有調度的國家級韌性體系藥品穩定供應是醫療體系的生命線 更是國安問題"},{"start":46859.586,"end":46874.773,"text":"過去我們在缺藥發生後才被動處理實在是緩不及急透過要釋法的修正要求持有必要藥品許可證的藥商必須定期申報讓主管機關能夠從源頭掌握數據及早預警確保醫療前線的供應不中斷"},{"start":46875.663,"end":46900.16,"text":"不再讓基層醫療體系陷入孤立無援其次我們強化非常實期的資源調度能力面對傳染病或者是國際供應鏈不穩本次修法賦予政府專案核准與精準分配的權限不僅要讓藥品能夠順利進來更要確保醫療資源能夠公平分送到最需要的國人手中建構一個更具應變能力的防護網"},{"start":46901.101,"end":46930.18,"text":"最後,為了要確保這套韌性應變的機制能更趨於完成,我們同步修正了要害救濟法,將因應緊急需求而專案核准的藥品納入保障範圍,完成了法制的銜接。這是修法我們實踐的主動監測、精準調度、權益保障的三大目標。我們不僅要解決缺藥問題,更要打造一個藥品供應看得到、民眾用藥拿得到的強韌台灣。"},{"start":46931.682,"end":46933.484,"text":"謝謝大家也祝大家新年快樂"},{"start":46948.635,"end":46965.888,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開全年委員會議審查商開草案會議由劉少傑委員建國擔任主席邀請提案委員說明提案要旨衛生福利部政務司長林靜儀說明提案要旨回應委員提案並被質詢另法務部經濟部應邀列席備詢"},{"start":46966.809,"end":46972.571,"text":"現在請召集委員劉建國委員補充說明沒有補充說明本案經審查會決議不需再交由黨團協商請問院會有異議沒有異議本案經審查會意見進行處理現在進行逐條討論"},{"start":46995.256,"end":47022.47,"text":"要害救濟法請宣讀第三條第三條本法用詞定如下一要害只因藥物不良反映致死亡障礙或嚴重疾病二合法藥物只領有主管境外合法藥物許可證或依藥事法第二十七條之三第一項第四十八條之二第一項第二款規定取得專核准依法製造輸入或販賣之藥物三正當使用只依醫藥專業人員之指示或藥物標示而為藥物之使用"},{"start":47023.09,"end":47052.302,"text":"四不良反应只因使用药物对人体所产生之有害反应五障碍只符合身心障碍者权益保障法相关规定锁定身心障碍类别程度分歧者但不包括因心理因素所导致的情形六严重疾病只主管机关参照群民健康保险重大生病范围及药物不良反应通报规定锁定严重不良反应公告之疾病宣读完毕到审查会条文通过请宣读第28条"},{"start":47053.362,"end":47074.951,"text":"第二十八條本法自公佈日實行本法中華民國一百一十五年一月三十日修正式第三條第二款有關要事法第二十七條之三第一項規定之實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過報院會全案經過二讀現在有三個黨團分別提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":47078.444,"end":47101.477,"text":"第三條本法用詞定如下一 要害指引藥物不良反映致死亡障礙或嚴重疾病二 合法藥物指令有主管機關合法藥物許可證或依藥事法第27條之三第一項第48條之二第一項第二款規定取得專核證依法製造輸入或販賣之藥物三 正當使用指引醫藥專業人員之指示"},{"start":47101.897,"end":47128.683,"text":"或药物标示而为药物之使用四不良反应只因使用药物对人体所产生之有害反应五障碍只符合身心障碍者权益保证法相关规定锁定身心障碍类别程度分级者单不包括因心理因素所导致这情形六严重疾病且主管机关参照全民健康保险重大伤病范围及药物不良反应通报规定锁列严重不良反应公告之疾病"},{"start":47130.103,"end":47156.234,"text":"第二十八條本法自公佈日實行本法中華民國一百十五年一月三十日修正之第三條第二款有關要事法第二十七條之三第一項規定之實行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢報議會三讀條文已經宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正沒有文字修正我們現在做以下決議要害救濟法第三條及第二十八條條文修正通過"},{"start":47159.554,"end":47168.531,"text":"我們現在進行完成立法程序後之發言並截止發言登記首先我們請也是唯一一位登記的林倩紀委員請發言"},{"start":47181.974,"end":47211.514,"text":"好 院長 立恩同仁還有媒體朋友 全國民眾大家好今天我們完成的這個藥害救濟法的第三條跟第二十八條的這個條文三讀那實質上是回應近年來公共衛生政策與實質運作之間出現的這個制度落差那麼近年來因應重大公共衛生需求或醫療事件那麼主管機關的醫藥事法的規定得以用專案的方式來核准藥品的製造或輸入那麼這類藥品的存在本身就是為了"},{"start":47211.874,"end":47240.286,"text":"回應全民醫藥的需求那麼具有高度的公共利益的性質然而現在的藥害救濟法對於合法藥物的定義僅限於零有藥品許可證的藥品沒有明確地將專案核准的藥品納入導致一個不太合理的情況發生也就是民眾來依法使用政府核准的藥品卻可能在不幸發生藥害時面臨救濟適用不明權益保障不足的一個風險"},{"start":47241.466,"end":47258.153,"text":"這不僅是制度性的一個技術問題也是國家責任的問題那麼政府在特殊情境下要求民眾來配合用藥政策就應該更明確的要求其用藥安全跟救濟權益不能讓制度來出現真空因此本次修法是將這個藥事法"},{"start":47259.594,"end":47278.087,"text":"专案核准的制造或输入的药品纳入合法药物的范畴使民众于正当使用下一旦发生的药害能够能够受到完整的药害救济制度的一个保障那么第二个部分是考量药事法已经明定专案核准制度的实行日期"},{"start":47278.467,"end":47306.278,"text":"由行政院来定制那一同步增订施行的这个条款那么确保要害救济法与要事法在试用时间点上无缝衔接避免制度落差来影响民众的权益那么这次修法呢补齐了制度的缺口让依法用药的民众能够得到他们本来应有的保障那本席相信今天三读通过之后那么我们已经朝向一个更加周延也更贴近食物需求的要害救济制度跨出重要的"},{"start":47307.312,"end":47309.094,"text":"雖然截至今天仍然有部分的議案"},{"start":47332.435,"end":47354.817,"text":"朝野有不同的看法但是基於國會議長的職責國會再次呼籲朝野為了國家的發展仍應持續以對話取代對抗用溝通化解歧見共同為全國人民的福祉來努力本會期自114年9月19日開議至今院會一共通過了共78個議案包括66個法律案"},{"start":47357.99,"end":47377.761,"text":"四項預決算案、副議案一案、人事同意權兩案以及其他議案五案在本會期延長至115年1月31日即將結束之際國會對於台灣民眾黨團部分委員即將離開立法院可以在此給予最大的感謝與祝福"},{"start":47378.752,"end":47400.775,"text":"另外也要向本院所有的全體委員、黨團幹部、全體同仁、議事夥伴還有駐衛警同仁以及海內外關心立法院所有的好朋友們表達最高的敬意與謝意在歲末年初祝福大家新的一年新年快樂馬上幸福謝謝大家我們散會"}]}},{"id":"167407","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167407","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e337dede71696a979150f68808b8bdd2f610852d0c756f8f46b941d3c9d1fc904cf22a73b69dd6195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"21:24:33 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各位同事這次藥師法醫台灣民眾黨的版本完成刪讀感謝食藥署在這個過程當中持續跟業界溝通也謝謝外環的同仁能夠支持我們黨的附帶決議這次修法牽動的是藥品供應的韌性健保制度的運作還有藥商醫療院所跟病人之間高度複雜的責任關係"},{"start":26.869,"end":47.06,"text":"那條文當中所稱的這個緊急或重大影響公衛事件是一個影響範圍很廣一旦啟動會這個重大的這個後果也非常重大的法律概念所以不能只停留在抽象的用語本黨的負債決議要求衛福部在後續訂立相關的這個修辦法使能夠參考國際關注公衛緊急事件的概念"},{"start":47.56,"end":66.6,"text":"把試用範圍判斷標準跟啟動程序具體化那麼其次藥品是否短缺如何替代以及它實際用量如何掌握都是牽涉到食藥署醫事司健保署以及藥商及醫療院所的實務運作所以我們也要求衛福部在訂定相關的作業辦法的時候能夠建立跨機關"},{"start":67.921,"end":85.722,"text":"跨利害關係人的協作跟溝通平台我們反覆強調這個法律賦予主管的這個機關權限應該是為了因應真正的公共危機而不是未來日後管理的一個便宜的工具因此不論是供應行為的這個限制措施或是後續的行政處理都應該要根據這個"},{"start":86.843,"end":101.221,"text":"比例原則跟正當的程序給予廠商陳述的意見跟機會避免因為資料錯估或是資訊的落差直接被認為是不實的申報不實受到處罰我們重點就是把制度能夠界限程序責任可克責"},{"start":103.143,"end":123.349,"text":"我們希望用專業跟可課則性的這個基礎確保資源用在對的地方讓藥品供應的韌性成為不只是口號而是讓台灣的醫療體系成為一個真正下一代的護國神山謝謝好 謝謝陳昭智委員的發言 謝謝我們接下來請林倩琪委員發言羅廷維委員請準備"}]}},{"id":"17245","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17245","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0d600d02e1221ac876d7649687346334ce692bdb9a1e47977b609b65e31e14a5d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T15:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院黨團協商（事由：一、繼續研商「住宅法部分條文修正草案」等案。（國民黨黨團提議）二、繼續研商「政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第四條及第三十四條條文修正草案」案。（國民黨黨團提議））","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T15:00:40+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T16:13:00+08:00","duration":4340,"影片長度":"01:12:20","委員發言時間":"15:00:40 - 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謝謝開會時間已到我們謝謝各位黨團幹部謝謝內政部劉部長各位列席的官員各位工作夥伴我們今天繼續要協商住宅法修正案及黨產條例修正案本來昨天協商的時候針對第47條有請內政部跟黨團繼續溝通今天我們繼續從47條開始進行討論還是一樣回到這個討論的主要的劉許廷委員以及內政部劉部長現在介紹"},{"start":1790.596,"end":1815.878,"text":"我做一個補充宣告1月27號黨團協商達成共識第10條不予修正維持現行條文第57條之一不予增訂另外介紹一下今天我們列席的各機關代表首先再次歡迎內政部劉部長法務部的謝參事好謝謝那我們請劉許廷委員發言內政部劉部長請準備好嗎我們要做準備做宣告請"},{"start":1817.284,"end":1830.332,"text":"好謝謝主席我們昨天討論到第47條有關於租屋市場透明化的這樣子的一個實際上的一個執行方法那我們回去做了研究之後我們還是覺得應該要有單憑租金才能夠比較完整的反應這個租屋市場的一個狀況因為"},{"start":1833.314,"end":1858.782,"text":"只有單位面積的租金才是有一個完全可比性的真實價格水準你如果只是用片面的總價來講因為有大有小嘛那它可能會常常變成說租金總價不變可是坪數其實縮水它其實就是反映租金的價格一個上漲嘛叫做隱形的租金通膨嘛那以目前這個內政部有提供沒有面積目前的資訊揭露來看比如說以新北市不分類物件租金50分位的價格就是中位數的價格它甚至高於台北市可是這就顯然與真實的狀況有所不符嘛"},{"start":1861.323,"end":1877.391,"text":"台北市的租金應該是不至於比新北市來更加便宜所以我們當然是希望既然有這個修法的契機在這個指標要合理來做調整讓它用單憑租金的方式來處理那麼內政部執行起來當然會有一點點辛苦但是我們每一年花了好幾百億去做租金補貼去做包租代管"},{"start":1877.791,"end":1902.15,"text":"我們希望這每一分公帑發揮出去的時候不只是照顧到租客也應該要有額外的政策效果既然我們都要花錢讓這些人去領補助讓這些人去享有更好的那個你就應該要刻意一定的義務也就是說在租賃的時候就要把更多的資料完整的來做填寫就可以解決說我沒有辦法去計算租賃面積的這樣的一個狀況我認為這個在技術上是完全可以克服的因此所以我們還是希望堅持按照本來的版本來做通過 以上"},{"start":1903.13,"end":1922.811,"text":"好,謝謝劉許廷委員再一次的說明,我們接著請劉部長,部長說完我們就做決定謝謝院長跟各位黨團的委員,那個有關於這個47條的部分,我們還是會覺得說務實來看待第一個,就現行租金補貼的資料,一共有四成的租屋型態,就是分租套養房,也就是我們昨天所說的部分"},{"start":1923.531,"end":1944.249,"text":"如果我們現在用美萍的單位的部分來影響它的租金補貼的話其實不具它的客觀性跟參考性而且房客也沒有辦法正確填練跟判斷房東也有這樣的狀況那並不是後端我們需要再做勾結的部分而是真正沒有辦法達到這個部分那如果一定要求這樣做了第一個我們並沒有罰則"},{"start":1945.73,"end":1964.56,"text":"那沒有法則如果他說謊那我們也不曉得如何處理這一塊反而會影響到最後作為租金單價統計分析公佈的時候呢特關性跟參考性降低到非常多那再何況很多人引用說是歐洲的部分我們昨天已經講過了台灣因為有公社的部分"},{"start":1965.16,"end":1979.742,"text":"那公社怎麼樣納進去所謂的分租雅房裡面到底是有多少每坪單價的面積真的是非常不容易處理我還是一直講的我們都知道這個租金的部分如果能夠越透明化是越好但是它是要漸進的"},{"start":1980.623,"end":2004.55,"text":"如果現在直接把它放到法令裡面來的話一定會造成未來在租金補貼或者是說在租屋市場上面確實會有非常大的一個混亂期而不是說只有陣痛過去就好也就是我們剛講到了屋齡建物型態公設筆裝修設備管服等等這些所以你如果用這樣的部分就來反映合理的市場的行情的話我覺得還是在務實層面上確實沒辦法達到以上"},{"start":2007.72,"end":2020.278,"text":"謝謝劉部長的再次說明因為從昨天下午到現在我們針對47條已經來說花了兩天的時間的討論各黨團也都表達了意見我想我們47條還是沒有辦法達成共識那我們就保留送院會進行"},{"start":2023.835,"end":2040.332,"text":"我想非常感謝院長主持這樣的協商這麼慎重那其實這兩天下來包括年委員的一個的說明我們都覺得也各有各的幾分理啦其實呢政策就是要讓大家比較"},{"start":2041.273,"end":2067.002,"text":"讓大家去支持他認為最對的政策那是不是可以有這樣的請求雖然呢不能達成共識但是未來在處理的時候我想牛委員應該不反對如果說我們國中版本的這個描述方式比較切合我們諸大眾的需求而內政部的建議的條文他有他執行面上的考量那每個黨有他支持的一個內容而且各自對他支持的版本向社會負責那能否"},{"start":2067.822,"end":2089.549,"text":"能否真的是很誠懇的請求說有兩次的表決,兩個版本的表決這表決一定是我們的版本先表決,沒有過再換他們的版本不然本來就是這樣了,一向都是如此好的,沒有問題,平常就有自己的版本好嗎?好,那我們就送院會寶,謝謝我們進行第52條"},{"start":2093.426,"end":2110.139,"text":"討論 條文討論 劉許廷委員所提出來的修正動議麻煩請劉許廷委員發言一下 內政部請準備好嗎好 謝謝主席這一條其實在委員會的時候大概就已經有達成一個共識了但是應該是在最後確認文字的時候大概有一些疏漏啦把這個條文的關鍵的四個字不知道為什麼拿掉了"},{"start":2110.539,"end":2139,"text":"那拿掉之後在整個法條上唸起來是完全不通順的當初修正的目的是希望因為我們現在有花很多的資源在投入包租代管這個方向我們是完全支持內政部但問題是實務上這幾年的走向是大部分人都去申請了代管而不是包租但其實走包租比較容易建立這個穩定而且長遠的這個房源供應比較有助於這個合理的改善租市場的體質所以說我們希望透過修正這個法條讓包租的補助不低於代管的2.5倍"},{"start":2139.941,"end":2154.768,"text":"那我們當然希望就是說你政府我們是完全支持增加增變預算的也就是說在貸款的補助金額不變的情況下我增加對於包租的這個預算補助讓大家更有誘因去選擇包租讓包租的比例能夠至少要跟貸款切齊嘛"},{"start":2155.448,"end":2181.222,"text":"現在是壓倒性的代管比較多而包租不足夠當然還有很多的一些細節要來做調整比如說租罷的問題等等這個我們都非常樂意在後續來做調整我們也答應了相關的這個工會因為他們有表達一些擔憂我們在下個會期的時候我們來召開公聽會針對詳細的一個執行希望內政部可以擬出一個更好的辦法但前提是我認為增加對於包租的補助的誘因這件事情是可以做而且相對來講成本沒有那麼高衝擊也沒有那麼大的所以"},{"start":2181.522,"end":2207.3,"text":"提出了修正動議 以上謝謝劉許廷委員發言特別跟民進黨團還有台灣民眾黨團報告一下因為這個案 這個第52條基本上已經差不多達成共識就少四個字叫不得掃魚所以劉委員發言各位兩位黨團要發言請隨時舉手我們請內政部來表達那個劉委員提一個新的修正動議不得掃魚是表示變成是下限欸太高了"},{"start":2209.574,"end":2231.707,"text":"那沒關係,民進黨團請表達意見沒問題,請這是天花板或是樓立板的問題嘛,這種選擇嘛所以這個最多就是2.5倍,你不要說不得少於2.5倍,往上,對你也上去啦看我們演繹不一樣,我們說明一下,對差很多那台灣民眾黨團要表達意見嗎?"},{"start":2233.628,"end":2257.834,"text":"張啟凱委員陳昭志委員需要表達意見嗎還是我們先聽內政部說明好請劉部長請因為這有一點不太一樣了是我知道謝謝院長本來我們在審查會通過條文的時候是2.5倍那本來內政部所提出的版本是2.5倍為原則但是現在那個劉許廷委員提到說不得少於2.5倍的話這等於是2.5倍是一個樓地板變成下線這樣反而往上修"},{"start":2258.374,"end":2265.341,"text":"那跟大家報告一下我們所累積的10萬戶的這個有效契約數裡面包租的戶數是35%代管的戶數是65%這是我們累積出來這是實際上的正確的數字那如果你把它變成是2.5倍的話呢跟各位報告第一個呢我們本來在修繕的補助的時候如果他是弱勢戶本來就比較多一般戶比較少"},{"start":2283.178,"end":2295.21,"text":"然後這些修正的補助是給房東那如果你原來這是我們1.25倍時候的做法那你如果跳增成2.5倍甚至更高的話那10年內呢它變成要增加100億"},{"start":2297.148,"end":2326.029,"text":"我們用這樣子的估算下去會變成增加100億那如果說各位覺得說未來再包租代管業者呢也可以解決我們現在所要推動的這個空餘物的問題的話我們也願意來協助但是變成是劉許題文委員講的說是不得少於2.5倍的話目前為止我們手頭上就沒有這個資料說要增加多少錢增加多少錢所以第一個是不是不要用不得少於因為這個部分確實跳增太大而且都是給房東的以上"},{"start":2329.383,"end":2352.95,"text":"建議維持委員會的條文我唸一下委員會的條文給你們聽一下你們就知道我的意思了他說前項服務得由租屋服務事業辦理其認定及獎勵辦法由中央主管定制這沒有問題其中屬第19條一項六款陳出民間住宅並轉租及代為媒合管理物件之補助出租人總金額媒合陳出租雙方及代為管理物件2.5倍這個是不通順的嘛"},{"start":2354.031,"end":2377.47,"text":"因為當初修正的版本就是不得少於2.5倍這樣才是通順的嘛所以你照委員會修正通過了反而很奇怪啊不管是在語句上面或者是法律的效果上面都會出現問題的我不知道為什麼當初當初大家講好其實在委員會的時候大家就已經講好是2.5倍不得少於2.5倍啊這個掉紀錄就可以知道啊通過的公式是這樣但我不知道為什麼最後長出來奇奇怪怪語句不通順的版本啦所以我是覺得還是要把它修回來才是正確的"},{"start":2379.411,"end":2385.257,"text":"跟院長跟各位報告一下,如果剛剛劉許廷委員講的部分就是倒數第二行,媒合、誠、出租、雙方等等這些前面加一個違其實就可以了,違"},{"start":2402.83,"end":2412.313,"text":"加一個微就可以了但是我們還是不太同意說現在把2.5倍當成不得少於2.5倍因為這樣真的是跳增太快跳增太快"},{"start":2444.284,"end":2471.997,"text":"那個羅志強委員請發言其實我不想講數學問題你不得少於2.5倍那到底決定要不要高於2.5倍還是內政部決定啊但是如果把它定系在2.5倍那你是失去你的彈性可是如果內政部真的要做你不得少於你還是可以做2.5倍啊那不是一樣的道理"},{"start":2472.967,"end":2480.817,"text":"但是你還是保留一個往上的空間嘛但往上的空間財力的安全是內政部嘛所以我覺得這是數學問題吧"},{"start":2489.932,"end":2519.558,"text":"就是維持2.5倍 維2.5倍啊就是這樣嘛當初在委會也是這個意思嘛永遠在委會嘛那就要不然就保留吧還是我補充說明一下我們修這一條的核心用意就是要加大對包租的補助那這個東西我們之所以講說是一個下限就是我至少要做到這個程度如果我要發現不夠我要再加碼我給政府更大的空間也就是你要3倍4倍5倍都可以如果他可以這樣促進這樣的政策的平衡我覺得是好事但你今天如果是寫維2.5倍你就定死在那個地方嘛"},{"start":2520.078,"end":2534.283,"text":"所以我們的寫法是包含的如果內政部真的執行起來有困難你就先從2.5倍開始如果一直都卡住或有狀況你就先維持但如果有突破值得加碼就可以馬上加碼不用再經過修法的程序嘛好不好所以不得少元還是比較好的啦好的 宗教編員請翻譯"},{"start":2535.575,"end":2563.313,"text":"在法律上如果你定為什麼什麼什麼的2.5倍行政機關就是以這個為準但你後面講的那些行政機關留有它的一個空間但是如果你寫不得少於那就一種義務其實我們把法律法律條文規定的是義務以外要增加的是行政職權但是你的不得少於在認知上跟為2.5倍我們要強調的是當時的本意我們無法追究"},{"start":2564.013,"end":2590.415,"text":"但是委員會送出的條文就是這樣子那如果真的有語句不通要符合原來委員會送的條文加個字就是為媒合曾出租雙方即待為管理物件還有再更嚴謹的知2.5倍如果真的是文句是這樣的話修辭是這樣子那就是2.5倍的意思委員會送的就是2.5倍現在故意把它講成不得少於2.5倍已經在法律上是必須是往這個以上來發展"},{"start":2591.816,"end":2595.558,"text":"這個在法律觀念上是不同的我們這裡不是講修辭這裡是不同的法律觀念好 麥玉珍委請發言 羅志強請準備好 謝謝主席我記得我們當時在討論的時候就是我們的民眾黨的條文是因為那個稅收還補助的我們就是說要三萬因為包租給他多一點優惠這樣子的話他們就"},{"start":2620.769,"end":2625.213,"text":"補助他們的稅這樣我們才會覺得說包租對我們的弱勢族群比較優惠因為那時候我們是邀著這樣所以我們的署長就是說他這個不要用這樣子的數據去補助才會改著說這是不少2.5倍"},{"start":2642.067,"end":2662.645,"text":"是這樣子的後來去討論的同意是這樣子的但是所以我們現在這條又來再來這個拿出來討論我們就不知道是怎麼回事因為我們希望真的是讓更多人拿房子出來做包租不要敗寡因為我們收到很多就是平數的不一樣"},{"start":2664.747,"end":2666.81,"text":"當是搬進來了你沒有身份證他要捐你渣錢你要設立戶籍他要給你渣錢所以我們就會避免這些才會說要求這個法以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":2680.421,"end":2694.226,"text":"我這樣講 其實它也不只數學問題 它也是法律問題我覺得法律很少把這個所謂的標準定到實時的為什麼 我舉個例子嘛今天 我今天舉個例子嘛照這個版本 2.5倍合法嘛2.51倍也合法 2.52倍也合法那誰決定 內政部決定嘛"},{"start":2700.188,"end":2728.056,"text":"如果內政部真的就是2.5倍一定要綁死他還是有選擇權啊可是問題你這個如果是你用2.5倍寫法那我就問一個問題嘛 法律問題啊2.49倍有沒有合法2.51倍有沒有合法對不對不是 我要這樣講就是說基本上給你選擇的空間嘛那你最後內政部不做還是一樣但是你保留一個往上的空間到底內政部在ㄍㄧㄥ什麼我是不太懂啦 不太懂啦"},{"start":2729.997,"end":2732.121,"text":"沒關係 我想各黨團內政府的意見大家都已經好 陳培議 水長請說"},{"start":2737.085,"end":2763.579,"text":"其實內政部在之前其實已經有講過如果你要這樣寫法其實會過度傾斜房東這真的是好事嗎剛剛麥玉珍委員說是為了照顧弱勢但是如果這個補助最後都是傾向房東這真的是你們國民黨跟民眾黨要的嗎所以剛剛羅志強問說為什麼內政部這麼堅持他就已經跟你們說過而且不是只有今天才說之前黨團協商的時候也說過然後在修法的委員會裡面也都說過了所以我相信委員們應該都非常清楚謝謝主席"},{"start":2766.257,"end":2771.12,"text":"主席不是不是要給我們知道就是為了讓房東拿房子出來租因為解決你們的那個那個十萬戶嘛解決十萬戶的社會住宅才會說用這個來去讓大家更多可以弱勢可以租房子所以才會說三項雙項的來去來去做所以我們希望"},{"start":2794.674,"end":2799.735,"text":"讓包租包租就是老闆才不會去看是誰租代管他們就會看說是誰所以很多家裡有老人的這個是說有小孩的很多代管都不給所以我們希望真正的照顧弱勢才會說給包租他們才會減稅所以才說補助他們多一點補助三萬"},{"start":2822.822,"end":2825.203,"text":"所以後來就說不要五株三萬要用這樣的倍數來比較好算還有我們的國稅級他們比較好作業所以我們已經同意了所以今天又拿出來討論我們不知道為什麼啦 是這樣我想"},{"start":2841.226,"end":2860.291,"text":"第52條我想各黨團還有內政部都已經發言非常非常的多非常清楚了我想我們一樣我們沒辦法達成共識第52條我們還是要保留送院會進行處理 好吧 謝謝我們現在處理附帶決議 我們宣讀一下"},{"start":2863.109,"end":2886.151,"text":"附带决议建云住宅法第52条修正后政府将投入大量预算资源扩大包租市场其补贴总金额下限设定为贷款案件之2.5倍国家财政负担显著增加行政部门即应确保政策产出相应之公共效益以落实居住正义然过去实务经验显示即便有补贴若是租屋族人常因年龄身份遭房东货业者技术性排除"},{"start":2886.571,"end":2902.115,"text":"若政府透过高额补贴成租民间住宅转做社会住宅却无法解决挑房客之结构性问题将严重违反预算编列之正当性与合理性原请主管机关落实以下行政作为因内政部应重新检视并修正包租贷款相关奖励办法"},{"start":2902.455,"end":2927.903,"text":"确立高补贴邻歧视之政策原则针对参与包租方案之租屋服务事业对于符合资格之经济或社会弱势层租赁除法庭事由外不得以年龄身心障碍或其他社会身份特征为由拒绝出租而为了落实上述原则要求内政部应于相关执法或契约范本中明定包租业者落实不得挑选房客之具体义务主管机关应建立考核机制将弱势户媒合成功率"},{"start":2928.283,"end":2952.086,"text":"及拒绝安置率纳入租屋服务事业之评鉴指标对于无正当理由拒绝弱势房客之包租业者应订定删减补贴或退场机制以确保预算执行符合政策正当性三起内政部与本法修正通过后三个月内向立法院内政委员会提出具体执行方案及防弊机制之书面报告宣读完毕谢谢各位党团干部附带决议大家徐宇峥委员请发言"},{"start":2954.137,"end":2981.109,"text":"針對這個附帶決議主要是因為依照我們過去的實務經驗顯示即便有補助有補貼然後但是因為很長時間是因為年齡跟身份就遭到房東或業者技術性的排除所以有挑房客這樣的一個問題所以我們是希望內政部能夠有相關的執法或契約的範本中能夠明定的落實不要挑選房客讓我們這些弱勢的或是長者他們不會因為這樣而導致沒有辦法租到他們該"},{"start":2981.969,"end":2982.59,"text":"謝謝許政委們的說明"},{"start":2986.073,"end":3012.219,"text":"內政部請表達意見好嗎 謝謝好 謝謝幾位委員所提到的附帶決議的部分當然是站在弱勢的立場來處理但是因為要我們來訂定執法協不得挑選房客或者是歧視的話這樣的定義比較模糊那在執行上就會出現困難就是難以界定跟舉證那也跟大家報告一下如果他是包租代管業者的時候因為他可以處理的房子戶數比較多"},{"start":3014.179,"end":3029.355,"text":"所以我們可以總體的要求它符合我們住宅法裡面40%像現在我們包租代管業者裡面呢所提出來的已經有43%是屬於剛剛所明定的弱勢戶包括單親家庭或是身心障礙者但是如果你把它規範變成是每一戶"},{"start":3031.337,"end":3052.267,"text":"都有不得挑選房客或是有這個拒絕安置率的話就可能會漏掉說未來包租代管業者來協助我們住宅法40%的這個部分所以在文字上的修正第一個我們可不可以把它納入用延譯的方式讓我們知道說它是一整群的房屋而不是"},{"start":3052.807,"end":3073.455,"text":"一棟房屋那一整群的房屋的好處就是說也許他A房租不到他可以租B房的方式這是一個那如果你沒有把它明定清楚的話呢確實沒有辦法一戶一戶就要求他再挑房客或者是這個零歧視這樣的原則可不可以修改一下然後因為我們還要"},{"start":3074.535,"end":3086.499,"text":"在PALA具體義務再做清楚一下所以我們在本法修正通過以後三個月的時間是不是再給我們多三個月那我們把這個防弊的機制跟執行的方案提供書面報告給我們委員來參考 以上"},{"start":3092.668,"end":3118.363,"text":"現在這樣內政部又提了一個版本現在已經到各位手上那現在提案的國民黨團針對劉部長的說明現在才出來內政部發的然後呢請國民黨團請補充意見好嗎我想依照剛剛內政部長劉部長的說法的話因為其實我們主要的就是希望不要挑選房客能夠落實這樣的一個這個機制那剛剛部長講說他們會先去研議那把三個月改成六個月這個部分我們可以同意"},{"start":3119.164,"end":3129.981,"text":"提到國民黨團同意內政部的一個建議好不好我們就改為演議那現在內政部版本已經可以可以可以請大家看一下好我現在本案現在已經有協商草稿請議事長發下"},{"start":3131.598,"end":3157.979,"text":"然後我在這裡來念一下各位我們達成的協商草稿協商主題延商住宅法部分條文修正草案協商結論一保留條文47條第52條送院會處理二協商通過條文第4條第18條如附件含立法說明三第10條不予修正維持現行條文四第57條之一不予徵定"},{"start":3160.521,"end":3166.406,"text":"5.甄列附帶決議一項如附件6."},{"start":3166.406,"end":3170.008,"text":"其餘均照審查會審查結果通過7."},{"start":3170.008,"end":3179.596,"text":"本案院會進行處理時廣泛討論,各黨派推派一位發言,每位委員發言三分鐘足調討論時,各黨團均不再發言保留條文1."},{"start":3179.596,"end":3182.879,"text":"各黨團版本提出先後進行處理,禮讓"},{"start":3184.946,"end":3195.329,"text":"民進黨團版本有限這就是剛剛柯總統所提的各位黨團幹部有意見嗎沒有意見好那就拜託大家請簽字第五項附帶決議是照內政部的這個"},{"start":3210.68,"end":3227.126,"text":"廖長不好意思我請教一下黃總統請那個第七點啊處理的時候廣泛討論各黨團推派一人發言每人發言三分鐘逐條討論都不發言保留條文依各黨盤提出先後進行處理"},{"start":3228.564,"end":3251.458,"text":"那為什麼要先離讓民進黨團因為剛剛您不在我們講是兩個版本因為有一個不得少於25%是這樣的一個情況他完全沒有其他任何其他的想法一點都沒有就是民進黨團是先給他表決剛剛國民黨團台灣民眾黨團也都同意因為他並沒有任何衝突好可以好謝謝好請簽字謝謝"},{"start":3258.436,"end":3259.837,"text":"謝謝內政部劉部長 謝謝謝謝各位列席的官員 謝謝我們現在進入"},{"start":3270.256,"end":3292.707,"text":"接下來要討論的協商主題是國民黨團所提議協商的政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第34條條文修正草案本案於114年12月31號已由國民黨團羅志強召集委員協商因為協商並沒有達成共識因此於本次會議我們繼續進行協商"},{"start":3295.373,"end":3318.978,"text":"首先我要介紹各行政機關的列席代表我們介紹首先介紹不當黨產處理委員會的林主任委員歡迎您請坐司法院民事廳的林廳長歡迎您請坐法務部謝參事請坐內政部陳專務委員財政部羅保管組的羅副組長請坐"},{"start":3324.502,"end":3336.706,"text":"教育部理副處長 歡迎請坐交通部觀光署曹組長 歡迎請坐國防部政治作戰局嚴克長 歡迎您 謝謝"},{"start":3341.121,"end":3357.833,"text":"我想為了有利於我們協商的進度麻煩各黨團直接針對第四條以及第三四條分別表達意見如果主管機關有補充的意見我們再行說明這樣的話會比較好我們有關本日協商會議我們依據結論如下我們現在"},{"start":3371.598,"end":3385.448,"text":"我們現在政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第四條及第三四條條文修正草案重點我們請提案的劉浩委員請說明"},{"start":3394.593,"end":3408.953,"text":"OK 謝謝謝謝院長 還有今天召開協商有關於檔案條例修正案第四條第三四條修法那之前有協商但是那時候沒有取得共識那今天謝謝院長再次召開那主要修正的部分是第四條跟第三四條"},{"start":3409.614,"end":3424.562,"text":"那其實救護團一直都是大家心中所公認最好的一個公益團體之一那不僅是在防疫期間還擔任模範生的角色還記憶寫書防疫在救災甚至都扮演急先鋒但是卻被"},{"start":3425.763,"end":3453.262,"text":"列為這樣子不當條例不當條例之後被這樣子清算不僅是在人事財務上一切都受任何的限制啊那這樣其實是一個意識形態或是說是整個這個對於公益團體是非常大的傷害啊那所以說今天的這個修正條文確實是公益不能等啦那我也是希望說還救我團以及公益團體的公道所以在修正條文第四條的部分還在或以及"},{"start":3454.102,"end":3476.068,"text":"籍的部分那人事財務或業務任何一項還是修法重點的時候改成籍但是民共黨這邊其實有討論那其實這個貨跟籍的部分是沒有問題所以這個部分可以維持籍在修正條文中那另外修法重點排除國家增訂成隸屬於國家者不在此限那因為當判條例中立法目的是在處理政黨財產不應該混淆國家與政黨"},{"start":3479.429,"end":3497.761,"text":"那再來第三四條的部分是讓修正有益錯誤必須要也要做導正所以溯及基網的部分它的修法重點是在於它溯至本條例公佈實行日前適用還以理此來能夠讓重新本法能夠保障結社自由及財產權"},{"start":3499.282,"end":3526.138,"text":"還不僅希望就是民進黨的委員啊能夠一起來支持還舊國團及公益團體公道因為今天的直播我相信許多舊國團的夥伴跟社會許多上公益團體對那謝謝那也希望鍾嘉賓委員是舊國團的屏東的副主委啊那所以說其實今天的角色其實特別是要麻煩您還可以讓大家一起來支持舊國團這個公益團體的公道謝謝"},{"start":3528.066,"end":3540.384,"text":"好 謝謝提案的我們黨團 國民黨團的尤浩委員的發言民進黨團請發言 台灣民眾黨團請準備謝謝主席衝著尤浩委員這兩晚的點名 我就要告訴尤浩委員"},{"start":3541.397,"end":3568.028,"text":"不要糟蹋曾經或現在加入救國團從事公益的人不要糟蹋這些人這些人不是國民黨的財產這些人做的公益奉獻他們的青春所做的不管是教育、旅遊都是為著他們崇高的理想他們不是為了國民黨這個組織我們來看一看在這些人加入救國團或者說中國青年反共救國團之前"},{"start":3569.161,"end":3596.881,"text":"本團的工作我念一下余浩偉你曾經加入過你要看一下中國青年反共救國團在社會為國防部所屬單位之一在黨內為本黨最重要清運機構今後中國青年反共救國團對重要工作之策劃與執行均應先行呈報中央接受黨的指導"},{"start":3598.14,"end":3611.277,"text":"即以增進清運工作之效果中華民國46年8月7日我們現在不要混淆我們現在討論的不是現在不管他是70歲80歲還是現在20幾歲仍然在參與各地"},{"start":3616.789,"end":3627.375,"text":"救國團這些工作的熱血青年或中年或老年我們講的是在民國46年的時候這個曾經隸屬於中國國民黨的護水組織因著當時中國國民黨是一個威權統治的國家機關他不當地將國家的資產交給救國團來使用今天"},{"start":3638.618,"end":3655.96,"text":"千萬不要把這些參與過救國團的人所做的公益用來掩護用來漂白國民黨附隨組織這樣一個歷史事實這不是你油耗委員一句話拿全體曾經參加過救國團工作的人就可以抹煞的"},{"start":3656.681,"end":3679.535,"text":"本人也參加過救國團過去半年的青年工作我們參加水上救生我們沒有再問他是不是中國國民黨的覆水組織我們出生的比較晚我們在民國五十年後才出生民國四十六年中國國民黨要求中國青年反國救團做的事情在歷史文件上他們侵奪的財產還掛在他的帳下"},{"start":3682.258,"end":3688.868,"text":"這個不是能抹煞的你不要以為你在江湖中你金盆洗手你過去的不義之財就可以不用歸還人家說 喜還喜 黑還黑"},{"start":3693.408,"end":3722.618,"text":"現在做公益的人不能成為國民黨的遮羞布啊把這些人的青春跟熱情拿來掩飾國民黨的不當的黨產這是最不要臉的事情還有臉去講救國團的人在做公益是這些人在做公益不是你救國團在做公益搞清楚民國40年46年寫在這裡尤華委員你要點我名一次我就講給所有跟我一樣為救國團打拚的人讓他們知道是你們在糟蹋人家"},{"start":3723.139,"end":3723.721,"text":"蕭平兄 好 謝謝"},{"start":3727.826,"end":3732.67,"text":"今天談救國團,氣力不要太大救國團是很多人甜蜜回憶跟公義的總和"},{"start":3755.66,"end":3777.168,"text":"很多人從學生時代就參加救護團的活動文藝營、戰鬥營非常多的活動很多參加朋友到現在都是一輩子的朋友而且他做了非常多的公益我印象很深刻在疫情期間救護團率先站出來把青年健談活動中心作為防疫旅館"},{"start":3778.328,"end":3802.926,"text":"還有去年丹納斯風災的時候還有花蓮這個災情他們都跟鏟子超人在那邊一起在一起在救災所以今天大家火氣不用太大我們從歷史的這個歷史角度來看看這個救火團真正的這個狀況救火團是在民國41年由行政院來籌組的那時候是隸屬在國防部它是依法成立的"},{"start":3803.911,"end":3830.572,"text":"準行政機關不是任何單位的附隨組織他是不符合黨產條例裡面的不當黨產到了民國58年跟78年的時候他變成了公益社團組織78年以後他成為我們中華民國第一個社團法人社團法人可是呢"},{"start":3832.705,"end":3852.505,"text":"不當黨產委員會竟是把它列為不當黨產他這念完之後他的資產已經全部被凍結了他狹下所有的業務活動跟動資全部都要提一詳細的說明喔連公益的這個募款這個募款還有幫助這個弱勢團體甚至叫活動"},{"start":3854.685,"end":3870.797,"text":"執行前都必須送不讓黨產委員會去同意這樣一個運作對台灣的公益推動是好的嗎是好的嗎所以台灣民眾黨贊成這次的修法我們主張第四條明定"},{"start":3872.387,"end":3889.893,"text":"護水組織這一部分曾經隸屬於國家者不再此現我剛講得非常清楚當初41年成立的時候救國團是屬於隸屬於國防部另外34條我們主張本條例之修正條文追溯到"},{"start":3891.6,"end":3899.365,"text":"這個條例公布實施的那一天開始也就是民國105年的8月10日開始這是台灣民眾黨明確的主張 謝謝"},{"start":3904.026,"end":3931.425,"text":"謝謝院長其實我們協商過以下所表達的其實之前也都表達過再說一次救護團在41年的時候成立它的成立是中國國民黨的中常會的前身中改會所決定的交由行政院去籌辦但是並沒有任何的立法所以剛剛講依法成立救護團這是一個錯誤的事情這個本會已經經過詳細的調查"},{"start":3933.846,"end":3950.068,"text":"提出非常清楚的證據剛才包括鍾嘉斌委員講的那些過程其實我們都提出了相關的檔案都不是我們一個人說了算如果有任何哪一位委員可以找到說救援的成立過程有立法的話也歡迎提供給我"},{"start":3951.397,"end":3970.809,"text":"再來是說舊國團是不是公益團體當然可能這個有委員一直主張它是公益團體但是縱然是公益團體也不妨礙它成為一個政黨的覆水組織政黨的覆水組織也是可以做公益這個邏輯上沒有互斥啦所以並不能用說它是公益團體它就不是政黨的覆水組織再進一步講"},{"start":3974.431,"end":3993.434,"text":"公益性的團體也不妨礙他以前在黨國威權時代從國家不當取得財產我們今天黨長會經過非常長時間的調查做了處分其實在講一件事情就是在黨國威權時代的時候救國團有拿走國家的財物現在還沒有交回來"},{"start":3994.375,"end":4017.167,"text":"我指的是這個部分,並不是指他現在的經營他現在的經營其實跟以前的某個程度有一點區分了但是我們的處分,目前處分,要求救護人員繳回來的都是當時在威權時期從國家取得的財產這個具體的證據跟事實全部在我們的處分書裡面這是非常清楚的事情,我想不要把它混在一起談"},{"start":4018.528,"end":4040.947,"text":"舊團現在要去經營活動中心、運動中心去經營各地的團委會的補習班如果它可以合法經營,我們都樂觀其成包括我們現在許可的過程裡面如果有這方面的申請,我們都會重塑、加快而且很快都讓它過了這個許可的業務到目前為止,我們都很順暢只有少數的我們認為有疑慮的才會把它剝掉"},{"start":4042.867,"end":4065.951,"text":"接下來我要講的是說舊國團一直主張現在是公益團體但是他的特權難道已經過去了嗎沒有耶在2016年的時候台北市政府是民眾黨的前主席柯文哲市長跟舊國團成立一個約定舊國團因為自知理虧因為當初建台青年活動中心那個建物啊"},{"start":4067.518,"end":4091.875,"text":"蓋的錢是國家的預算所以舊國團跟當時的台北市政府成立一個贈餘契約還用的是贈餘 但台北市政府也吞下去把要求在8年的時間在經營8年 然後他要把建物交還給台北市政府這個8年時間的最後一天是2024年的12月31號也就是一年一個月以前結果到了"},{"start":4093.871,"end":4107.097,"text":"2024年12月31號對 最後一天救護團把登記 建屋的登記移轉給台北市政府但是他到現在為止已經過了一年一個月沒有點交救護團沒有搬出去"},{"start":4108.653,"end":4121.983,"text":"換句話講舊國團賴皮違約那台北市政府在本來約定的12月31號2024 12月31號點交之後的20天才跟舊國團開了一個會說因為這個要準備以後這個地上的經營這個建台經營合作中心收回來之後經營還要花一點時間規劃所以讓舊國團暫時在那邊使用"},{"start":4134.552,"end":4160.225,"text":"這個暫時又過了一年一個月所以舊國團的特權大家以為他過去了嗎?沒有舊國團的特權還是現在進行式這個是我今天來這邊雖然對外一再說但是我有這兩個提醒第一個舊國團離開國家的管制的時候他並沒有把他的不當取得財產交回來這個我們用我們的處分他現在已經在都到法院去了第二個是舊國團的特權並沒有過去"},{"start":4162.466,"end":4187.605,"text":"他仍然占用了這個建壇金融中心而且他是自己同意要把這個建物交回來而且給他八年的通融他還是不交回來以上好 謝謝林主委的說明我想三個黨團加上林主委的說明顯然我們沒有辦法達成共識那我現在做以下的宣告我們有兩"},{"start":4189.008,"end":4217.585,"text":"我們兩個結論一保留條文第四條第三四條我們就保留二本案院會處理的時候我們廣泛討論呢由各黨團推派一位代表每位委員發言三分鐘逐條討論時我們均不再發言保留條文一各黨團版本提出先後順序進行處理我們現在我們沒辦法達成共識送院會好嗎那請大家簽字好在簽字的時候呢順便我"},{"start":4231.774,"end":4245.163,"text":"三讀之後各黨團推派一位代表我們請,好嗎?我再補進去,用口頭,好,謝謝好,那個現在跟各黨團幹部,大家在簽字的時候跟大家報告一下"},{"start":4247.205,"end":4274.75,"text":"國民黨團現在送件針對本院委員劉許廷等35位凝聚立法院組織法第32條、33條及35條條文修正草案呼籲盡快召集朝野協商這是剛才才送的我要徵求各位黨團幹部的同意同意我們就進行審理如果不同意那我們就今天朝野協商就到此為止我們就沒辦法進行處理了好"},{"start":4276.226,"end":4285.211,"text":"那麻煩請各位簽字完簽字完我們就完成今天所有的草野協商手續好嗎好謝謝我們列席的林主委各位列席的官員謝謝大家也謝謝各黨團幹部我們散會"},{"start":4324.861,"end":4326.949,"text":"好好問你們的自肥法案好好去公佈說話"}]},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[],"term":11,"id":"黨團協商-2026012950","type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商"}},{"id":"17244","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17244","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcd600d02e1221ac8716d83efede5906c8e692bdb9a1e479773c65d48c293fd2ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T11:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院委員牛煦庭等32人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條、第三十三條及第三十五條條文修正草案」）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:30:21+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:57:00+08:00","duration":5199,"影片長度":"01:26:39","委員發言時間":"10:30:21 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人力處的專門委員 廖政文給予福利處的專門委員 林志玉行政院主計總署的公務預算處專門委員 黃子涵內部審核研究小組的檢驗市場 王立倩"},{"start":2081.383,"end":2106.274,"text":"那麼我們現在就進行協商了那麼本案是經過114年12月26日本院第11屆第4會期第15次院會決定進付二讀並且由國民黨黨團負責召集協商那麼協商時就請參閱進付二讀提案的關係文書與會委員如果有修正動議或機關有建議內容的話就請提出書面印發現場進行討論"},{"start":2108.695,"end":2133.944,"text":"那麼首先我們就先請提案委員牛許廷牛委員先進行說明謝謝主席各黨團的代表好這個大家早安今天討論立法院組織法32條的修正案那當然這個跟立法院助理的補助跟相關的一些費用跟待遇的提升是有關係的"},{"start":2134.924,"end":2162.205,"text":"那麼這段時間當然很多爭議也有很多人提出了各式各樣的質疑但是我跟大家報告一下會排在這麼晚的時間內協商倒不是有什麼奇怪的陰謀請大家可以放心而是這個法案在修正的過程中我們總要跟工會跟立法院雙邊都要保持對話去找到一個合理的方案因此今天也提出了修正動議我想應該已經交給交在大家的手上希望今天大家以修正動議的這個內容來做核心的討論"},{"start":2163.226,"end":2183.565,"text":"那我跟大家報告一下我自己在內政委員會工作我們在第一會期的時候其實就已經通過了民意代表知己條例的修正幫我們的縣市議員的助理大幅的提升了待遇也幫里長等等的提升了工作的獎金我想這都是基層的政治工作者我覺得沒有什麼道理讓國會助理也在這一波裡面是被遺忘掉的"},{"start":2184.125,"end":2212.257,"text":"換言之我從一開始提這個法案的初衷就是希望增加助理的待遇所以你可以看到大部分修正的內容其實都是在增加包含這個助理的這個助理費的補助費用包含增加了資深加給這個專業加給這個進修補助以及生活津貼等等相關的一些條件所以我希望今天在討論的過程之中大家可以針對助理待遇增加的幅度來做合理跟理性的討論最好可以達成三黨的共識以上謝謝"},{"start":2215.441,"end":2242.294,"text":"好 謝謝 那麼接下來我們就請出席的各黨團代表表示意見那麼我們原則上採取的是各黨團輪流發言那就是以現在的狀況我想就是原則上每位委員先以五分鐘的發言時間為準然後我們到時候再來做一些彈性的安排那首先先請鍾瑞雄委員發言謝謝 謝謝主席我也不一定要過分精其實在議會 這個助理"},{"start":2245.912,"end":2272.972,"text":"這個薪資的一個增加在上一屆還是你們國民黨的議員來催溫我們就把它給覺得很有道理讓助理的薪水薪資福利來做一個提升其實各黨團我相信都不會有意見為什麼國民黨提出這個法案在連國民黨的助理裡面都會炸鍋"},{"start":2274.246,"end":2274.566,"text":"其實你也有提到說把整個"},{"start":2296.698,"end":2314.984,"text":"立法院國會助理的部分你說按每一個立法委員每年稅費五倍的公費助理的工資跟以勞動法令規定由雇主負擔的相關費用然後公費助理的專業家籍 資深 還有健康 福利"},{"start":2316.164,"end":2339.446,"text":"明確化這個是好事但是這個好事裡面你們去把它看的就是說你立法院每年應以公務預算編列為立法委員的補助費用就是這個本來你們會被受到質疑的地方就是到底會不會有儲罪化的問題本來是國家的水庫"},{"start":2340.527,"end":2368.03,"text":"那到最後如果說變成立法委員的水庫就會有這個問題如果單純要來增加國會助理的福利還有他的薪資我相信各黨團都不會有意見啦但是如果又涉及到是不是會有把他給除罪化這樣的一個問題的話可能才是核心啦這個才是核心如果沒有這個問題我全部都要你支持"},{"start":2369.98,"end":2384.03,"text":"我全部都要支持那如果要混水摸魚因為 你看嘛各政黨都會碰到如果有民意代表去有助理費 佔領助理費的問題的時候那是社會划然啦那是社會划然沒有人有辦法接受啊 我也知道 政敵嘛就是有時啊 有一些比較灰暗的啊 有一些比較黑黑臭臭的人多了 讓我們拜託一下 東團啊 不過沙村還不行啊不然一 紐委員你的形象你還要去站這個案"},{"start":2399.963,"end":2421.781,"text":"因為要給大家來講的清楚沒有關係就講清楚在立法院裡面大家都講清楚要解決什麼如果要解決國會助理讓他的待遇讓他的福利做提升的這個我告訴各位民進黨黨團絕對不會有任何的意見不會有任何的意見但是如果是要夾帶要讓法律的解釋又不清又不能講清楚我相信劉偉剛你是也講嘛這個前面爭議很大嘛這時候爭議很大的原因是到底會不會"},{"start":2427.834,"end":2452.171,"text":"涉及到這個本來在訴訟系數當中的官司會不會幫有人解套或者說這個要把整個這個這個詐領助理費這個部分把它給除罪化沒有這些疑慮的話講清楚我相信核心問題講清楚以後大家都沒有問題啦所以我們就針對核心的問題先把它給講清楚我先簡單這樣講啦好不好"},{"start":2457.643,"end":2475.864,"text":"接下來看陳昭志委員我想過去就是組織法裡面其實有一些對助理費的規範是不夠明確了當然那不夠明確的時候的確是賦予這個委員高度的職權運作跟人事任用自由等等那今天剛剛"},{"start":2478.006,"end":2499.786,"text":"剛剛莊委您提到其實不分黨派 貴黨也都發生了這些爭議人數也都不在少數我想最重要是法院對於助理費的運用跟定義也有非常奇異的看法法院本身所以我們覺得對於助理費的定義清楚不再模糊化不是為什麼目的至少我們把它定義清楚"},{"start":2501.068,"end":2524.207,"text":"這個法制化的方向是一定要做因為這些錢本來都是國庫的支出實質上就是讓整個立法委員的工作上的一些輔助的一些相關的費用跟人力所以我想民進黨應該不會反對法制化吧不要說他背後什麼目的法制化是"},{"start":2527.158,"end":2541.61,"text":"這個就是怎麼解釋嘛第一個我們就支持這個反智化嘛那第二個就是我想大家都會同意嘛本來助理嘛沒有助理怎麼成全一個好的立委助理的這個福利跟保障這是一定要做到的該助理的錢就要給助理就是這樣"},{"start":2546.513,"end":2555.797,"text":"那基本上我個人的決定 現前的做法包括就是這個整個費用助理的費用是由立法院代理然後就是匯到這個助理的這個帳戶我個人覺得這個是很清楚但是劉委員他提起要增加立委的福利助理的福利這也是一定要做因為根據統計好幾年前就已經"},{"start":2571.443,"end":2596.244,"text":"四年內年資的平均的一般立委的任期都將近六成的那個都換過了表示說這個環境並不是有幫助於對政治有熱忱的年輕人願意長期留在這裡但是如果能夠人才能夠久任長任我想說這個對助理整個的工作品質整個立院的表現對整個立法院未來留住人才都是非常正面的"},{"start":2596.885,"end":2603.764,"text":"所以法治化一定要清楚精神就是要保障到助理跟福利第三就是该给助理的不能少谢谢"},{"start":2607.927,"end":2626.763,"text":"好 請您委員發言好 謝謝主席這個也謝謝民進黨黨團針對這個助理待遇的提升都是表示支持那就沒有背離我們這個提法案的初衷我剛剛跟莊瑞雄委員在我回答一下莊瑞雄委員的問題我剛剛講說這個輿論化然這個爭議很大是因為我本人就是反對大水庫理論的"},{"start":2627.423,"end":2655.784,"text":"就是因為我們黨內有很多不同的意見所以後來才會有新的版本出來這個也希望在這個場合跟大家講清楚說明白所以在我們的版本裡面基本上是一樣是由立法院直接把這些不管有沒有這些家籍等等這些通通都是由立法院直接匯到助理的戶頭這一段時間有很多人在那邊解釋說這個版本還是借私還魂啦還是什麼本職除罪啦還是會把錢撥到立委的戶頭通通不會因為在法條裡面我們就清楚序名了"},{"start":2656.404,"end":2683.273,"text":"這些相關的補助費用都會由立法院直接匯到助理的戶頭所以我希望這樣子的一個以而傳而或者是不實的資訊可以到此為止那我要回答一下剛剛大家講說這個談把它寫成所謂的補助費用會不會造成除罪化的問題我手邊有兩個例子第一個我手上這一本是我們行政院主計總處的總預算編制作業手冊其中第134頁有提到這個立法院在民意代表待遇的時候他有寫"},{"start":2683.993,"end":2708.541,"text":"民意代表待遇它雖然編在人事費裡面但是它有寫凡民意代表之稅費、公費、研究費及依法聘用之助理人員待遇補助等組織嘛所以它當然在法律性質上它本來就是補助性質這是其一其二我也要跟大家報告在我們當初修正的民意代表知己條例裡面當初可以順利通過很大的原因是因為有行政院院板"},{"start":2709.261,"end":2725.445,"text":"所以我現在就拿行政院院版的草案來跟大家報告行政院院版的草案在第六條裡面的修正他就寫了直轄市議會縣市議會得編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理"},{"start":2725.845,"end":2745.835,"text":"而且他在立法說明裡面還寫為補助議員聘僱專職助理協助履行議員職權原定名各議會編列議員助理補助費補助各議員聘用助理又為彰顯相關費用俗補助性質刪除公費二次"},{"start":2747.049,"end":2771.561,"text":"這是行政院提出來的明代知己條例的修正案大家最後也通過因為大家覺得這不是問題大家當初在討論的重點是我們到底要幫議員的助理加多少薪水可是這裡面既然都這麼明目張膽還把公費兩個字刪除按照我們民進黨或者是這一段時間社會大眾的質疑難道行政院是帶頭幫詐領議員助理費的議員除罪嗎"},{"start":2775.863,"end":2792.551,"text":"應該不是這樣吧對不對我覺得我們就講就法論法我們講道理嘛第二我再補充一下順著這個脈絡往下說這個明代知己條例已經上路了請問是不是上路之後就沒有任何的議員乍領助理費被起訴被判刑"},{"start":2793.191,"end":2814.645,"text":"好像也不是吧你如果是非法的詐領即便他寫了這個是補助費用他還是被判刑還是被起訴吧從這個法案上路之後還有若干的議員我就不點名了但是他們都還是有涉入官司換言之你去提這一段把補助性質列明跟他是不是幫什麼除罪話沒有絕對必然的關係甚至是沒有關係的"},{"start":2815.586,"end":2829.789,"text":"你如果真的是搞人頭搞詐領這些東西你該被判刑還是會被判刑所以我覺得這件事情我就用在這個場合我們很公開很清楚的用這個例子來跟大家報告如果大家就講說這個法案是為了除罪而修我真的是覺得有一點點多慮了"},{"start":2830.785,"end":2852.614,"text":"如果是這樣那難道行政院帶頭處罪嗎我覺得我不會這樣子看啦我覺得這個包含當初民代知己條例的修正重點跟我今天提立法院組織法修正的重點都是一樣的我們就好好的幫基層工作人員加薪吧好不好我們希望待會的討論可以慢慢慢慢往這些待遇是否合理會不會增加太多財務負擔我們要怎麼樣求取平衡點來做協商以上 謝謝好 接下來請沈博洋委員發言"},{"start":2868.068,"end":2884.983,"text":"我先講一下一個程序上我們一定要解決的問題就是說剛剛林委員也有提到可能還是需要試算對於立法院來講現在這樣的一個財務負擔到底應該是多少我覺得這應該蠻重要的這個可能等一下看能不能請立法院回答一下"},{"start":2885.663,"end":2900.423,"text":"那這是第一個啦這比較程序啦但這個總是要解決因為畢竟這就是一個增加支出的那就像我們剛剛莊委員講的如果今天就是單純的是讓這一個助理的家籍民文化又或者說他的福利民文化"},{"start":2901.144,"end":2921.619,"text":"這大概不會有人有意見 這個絕對是好事所以真點還是因為就像剛剛牛委員講的這到底會不會是一個除罪化的規定那我先這樣講就是說剛剛有講到比如說我們的預算的科目怎麼訂定又或者說包含這個我們的當時行政院版對於這一個議員的部分怎麼規定"},{"start":2922.68,"end":2945.813,"text":"你這一個規定有沒有補助 補助費這三個字其實跟法律關係是兩件事情這是兩件事所以我們來看一下就是說現在這一個條文現在這個條文它的關鍵有幾個第一個就是在這一個應該是第四項我先看原來的先不要看修正動議我們先按照原本的來看"},{"start":2947.581,"end":2967.422,"text":"先從原來 因為修正動議待會再繼續討論因為這個應該是一樣的所謂的補助費用是由立法院代理立法委員做給付這個在修法理由就有特別寫到因為這個之前都有爭議公費助理是立法委員自行聘用等等之類的用語"},{"start":2968.723,"end":2991.593,"text":"所以現在的比較關鍵是我們要怎麼去看待這個法律的定性其實它跟那個名稱並沒有直接的關係你的名稱不會影響到法院今天認定這個立委跟這一個助理之間的法律定性我相信這一個主席也非常的清楚所以過往我們的法律剛剛有講到就是說這個法律目前在議員的部分大部分都是認為這個是一個詐領"},{"start":2993.194,"end":3019.593,"text":"因為無論如何不管你今天這個費用是屬於他本人還是不屬於他本人他本來就是屬於要時報時銷嘛所以他要時報時銷你今天只要比如說這個人根本就不是你助理他是人頭所以這個就你在交出這一個名單的時候呢就有使公務員登載不實的問題那我們的法院就是用這個使公務員登載不實再去連結到他有這個詐領所以進入到貪污自罪條例其實認定都是這樣子"},{"start":3020.353,"end":3049.163,"text":"那剛剛這個陳委員也有提到就是說現在的這個法律這個認定可能會有點不穩定其實法律的認定從以前到現在一直都認為這是貪污一直都認為是詐淩但是在一個案子認為不是那就是高雄案的案子那高雄案的案子最主要為什麼會有這樣的一個定性的認定的改變是因為立法院回覆給我們的高等法院回覆說他們認為這一個立委助理的法律定性他的定義跟我們之前跟法院認定都不一樣"},{"start":3050.043,"end":3069.336,"text":"那法院这时候有两个选择第一个选择就是他遵照过往法律所有的认定方式认为这还是有诈领助理费另外一个就是说既然立法院这样讲那我听立法院的好了所以就是因为这一个案子立法院有一个不同的意见而那个法官遵从了立法院的意见所以最后做出了一个不同的认定"},{"start":3070.196,"end":3099.176,"text":"所以這整件事情我們不一定要具體的文字但其實重點是法律定性那我覺得如果今天修法理由還有修正條文裡面其實對於這個的法律定性到底清不清楚法官會怎麼解讀我覺得這個是這其實是一回事這其實我們說真的我們沒有辦法干預法官的解讀但如果我們可以明文的直接告訴大家就是說有義領的因為這個在修正動議就有提到如果有義領又或者說有人頭又或者有回捐有這些方式"},{"start":3100.076,"end":3126.421,"text":"直接還是回歸使公務員擔擔不實跟回歸貪污自罪管理條例我覺得這樣最簡單因為這樣就可以沒有爭議了就是說你在法條就已經告訴大家這個詐領就還是叫做詐領這個貪污還是就叫做貪污然後前面就是單純增加福利那這樣會變得很簡單那這個要怎麼做到呢除了增加一些文資之外最主要我覺得有幾個地方第一個就是時報時銷這件事情到底要落實到什麼程度"},{"start":3126.801,"end":3140.774,"text":"因為你今天是歸屬於立法委員自己可以處分的跟你今天要跟立法院要拿的時候那個時報時銷的那一個方式是不一樣我看到修正動議有提到比如說像那個專業加息它是給立法委員認定嘛"},{"start":3141.604,"end":3162.65,"text":"是給立法委員認定那這個法律定性其實就是在立法委員的身上我覺得這個有點危險然後再來就是因為在修正動議的第四頁這一邊有提到議領或應返還專業家籍那這個議領就是指只有指專業家籍的部分或獎金的部分的議領還是說像我們講的人頭等等之類的那個也都算議領"},{"start":3163.75,"end":3174.372,"text":"這個也要定性因為這個都定性完了之後最後才可以去加說如果涉及這方面的回捐等等之類的都還是貪污之罪管理條例的規範那這樣就超級明確了我們就直接讓這個國人知道說我們這個單純是福利我們並沒有想要把什麼事情處罪化所以我覺得整個針點大概是在這方面那內部的就剛剛講的我覺得"},{"start":3186.255,"end":3205.245,"text":"立法院這邊的試算大概是如何因為有五倍跟六倍嘛我剛辦公室是五倍黨團是六倍嘛對不對就是說這個金額大概多少立法院是否這個如果專業加息是算在裡面還是不算在裡面然後到最後這個金額大概多少到最後可能也請立法院幫忙試算一下所以我先翻譯到這邊不好意思超過一點時間謝謝"},{"start":3208.706,"end":3234.178,"text":"接下來看是請陳昭志委員發言謝謝主席 我再補充幾句第一個我們今天在做法制化的事情是不要把法制化汙名化因為法制化代表一個很明確那剛剛審委也提到就是說我之前先提說因為法官也認為有一些疑慮他要再做一個確認那這個立法院是被動他是被動回復就是法官自己"},{"start":3235.138,"end":3259.079,"text":"讀了這個相關的條文他認為可能是有不足或他需要再確認所以立法院就是被動的做了降費我想這個差異是非常大的並不是立院主動要去做任何的解釋那反正這些費用就是用在就是在你的執行業務工費共用我想這基本上這個原則就是如此我想說我就是在表達到這裡為止謝謝"},{"start":3262.341,"end":3284.557,"text":"好 接下来牛委员好 谢谢主席这个刚刚讲了非常多啦但是我刚刚讲的本质上的东西都还是我们希望标准是其一的这个其实大概就是这样子那刚刚有讲了就是说议领的部分这我说明一下因为我们后面提的有关于专业家籍跟资深家籍等等它是有硬性条件的嘛那换言之就只有硬性条件有没有符合嘛"},{"start":3285.017,"end":3297.714,"text":"那這個數額也是明確的所以用這個地方相關修正不過剛剛沈委員提到這個有關於各式各樣形態的所謂的乍領它其實是在內包約定薪資裡面然後後面用奇怪的方式做手腳"},{"start":3298.874,"end":3318.488,"text":"那我覺得你在這地方你用法條我覺得不見得能夠杜絕這樣的事情吧所以我是之所以去寫講的議領在法條裡面基本上是針對是針對專業家級跟資深家級等等有硬性條件的部分那當初講說為什麼要經過立法委員是我們跟立法院商量的一個結果那我跟省委員報告一下因為基本上不管是在"},{"start":3319.469,"end":3336.541,"text":"議會的時代我做過市議員嘛然後現在在立法委員基本上都是你立法委員要簽嘛就是我要給這個助理多少的薪水然後基本上簽了然後他們就採認嘛那同樣就是這個證書你總是立法委員要看一下嘛表示是為真了嘛然後有一個兩邊查核的這樣一個結果這樣會比較單純好 這我跟這個委員回報一下那另外"},{"start":3342.184,"end":3364.182,"text":"剛剛講的問題都還是沒有解答到我剛剛拋出的問題就是說如果大家認為這個法案是為了幫特定人士處罪的話那明代知己條例要怎麼說呢我就講了嘛這個修完沒有幫人家處罪的問題啦如果你真的有詐領人頭等等的狀況該判的還是會判而法院的認證在過去來講它是有不同見解那也是沒辦法但是這不是我們修法就可以干涉的事情啦以上"},{"start":3368.284,"end":3373.491,"text":"因為剛剛省委員有說希望請機關代表可以先回應是不是他講完我們再講一下讓他們聚焦會更好我就講過了這個案子"},{"start":3382.783,"end":3395.591,"text":"會引起社會嘩然大家不要在這個地方好像過去就雲淡風輕了不然這種如果要保障國會助理提升他們的待遇的我們不用坐這麼多人在這裡啦這個案子為什麼會這樣子就去年你們淨富二讀嘛就這麼簡單嘛就這樣來的嘛你們現在是在藉機在洗白嘛藉機在為前面說為了你這個版本我也認為是一個懺悔的版本很好啊"},{"start":3412.608,"end":3431.887,"text":"就已經轉向了嘛就這麼簡單嘛政治大家就是講白話嘛你們問題就是要除罪話嘛那你現在如果說把它給制度化很好我認為是一件好事但是我剛剛就說你這個版本我都要給你比讚啊但有一個地方我就比較有要講清楚的地方就是說原來這個你在那個"},{"start":3435.991,"end":3450.495,"text":"在那個第二項的部分是把它定性清楚就是說立法院因每年以公務預算編列以下立法委員的補助費用你把它定性就是立法委員的補助的一個費用就是說本來這個如果沒有說得清楚之後大家就開始揮手揮手說這到底是立委的到時候責任的人就跟他說沒有的 那是我的"},{"start":3463.7,"end":3487.128,"text":"那是我的 這沒有講清楚所以我再講清楚我相信坐在這邊的委員大家的想法都對於你國民黨當初提出的案子大家是反對的不然你們不用再提出個修正案嘛這是在騙你 不是在騙你你們前面的案子就是不是 你們前面在處理什麼那個叫做妖魔鬼怪法案就這麼簡單這個現在是一個懺悔的法案我覺得也很好"},{"start":3491.963,"end":3517.395,"text":"大家一起來促成我看不分洞牌的助理大家一定會很高興嘛就像程召之為你講的法治化是 法治化我都願意但是如果要渾水摸魚我相信我相信都在做高台而已啦做高台而已這個案子我是一直以來我都很一致的啊就不像國民黨都這樣而已民眾黨都這樣而已特黨也都這種態度"},{"start":3520.39,"end":3534.833,"text":"但問題是說 發生那種事情社會上哪有人會去贊成的所以這就難說在這裡要給人家夾帶進去尤其是在這裡政府惡毒連討論這個連委員會討論都沒討論的不要忘記了我們立法院是這樣審法案的嗎以上好 那我們現在是不是可以先請那個立法"},{"start":3552.156,"end":3578.685,"text":"剛剛其實鋪碼也有提到就是這個金額的部分因為現在劉委員你的版本是寫五倍六倍可是你其實並沒有說是上限還是什麼樣所以拜託等一下總務處說明的時候我覺得也讓國人清楚的知道假設這個我們看起來是疑似要漂白的版本那最後到委員身上或者是到黨團辦公室它的費用會是多少所以拜託實際金額剛剛沈博洋問的就是這個因為你的部分其實沒有寫清楚五倍上限到底是五倍六倍是天花板還是怎麼樣"},{"start":3583.57,"end":3606.355,"text":"好 那林月琴委員有需要今天再發言嗎我想前面都已經在講因為我覺得從陳昱臻版本引起大家討論之後像原本還有許智傑我自己也有版本可是我不知道在擠什麼就是說為什麼我們不能在委員會好好討論然後林月琴委員要"},{"start":3607.435,"end":3630.098,"text":"抽出來然後進付二讀當然你自己稱說你這是最完整版本可是為什麼既然是最完整那就最值得討論那為什麼事實上是選擇進付二讀完全不給大家來做討論好的版本要讓大家好好欣賞好好討論好好研究一下你的版本到底有多完整如果打算今天過水明天宴會就要強行通過的話那到底是來幫助"},{"start":3630.839,"end":3648.594,"text":"我們的助理嗎雖然剛剛一直在講說你這個事實上是沒有什麼事實上是為了我們的助理增加所有的福利可是先等一下我想也要解釋一件事情如果一律定性為立法委員補助費用"},{"start":3649.375,"end":3676.21,"text":"那白話文就是說這些錢是立法委員自行運用的錢就是愛怎麼用就怎麼用這個幾個字眼前面過去沒有的時候立法院都可以解釋高雄案的案子這樣做解釋的時候這次的修法我們還是會想到底福利措施做些什麼更重要的應該事實上是監督機制而不是說你先這個國家不管是不是統籌運用助理費都有明確的監督跟"},{"start":3677.771,"end":3703.013,"text":"聘用制度的話當然沒有問題如果你參考的事實上是歐美日韓的助理費制度那他們事實上是有一些監督機制的可是我今天沒有看到說到底有哪些監督機制如果你的寫法又寫說立法委員的補助費用如果未來再針對有爭議在法院判決的時候是不是會把這個認為就是補助費用所以要怎麼用就怎麼用就不會是"},{"start":3704.475,"end":3716.855,"text":"當委員在用的時候有沒有去充分照顧到我們的助理我覺得這個反而是我有些疑慮的所以希望等一下也是一併能夠做說明以上好 那接下來我們就"},{"start":3719.465,"end":3734.794,"text":"對就先請那個立法院這裡做說明我最後一題就好錢一樣是跟錢有關因為那個麻煩你們看一下年委員版本喔就是那個你在立法說明或者是你在那個版本裡面有寫到第四頁你的修正動議第四頁你有提到說有議領或"},{"start":3736.585,"end":3759.972,"text":"應返還專業家籍及年終工作獎金之情形者那其實我不確定立法院這邊你們有沒有看了劉委員的版本這個議領值的到底是因為剛剛劉委員其實還是沒有回答我比較好奇你們的法律見解會怎麼讀到底是指專業家籍含不含助理費的議領我覺得這才是關鍵如果你把助理費的議領也算進來那就會有問就到底那個問題就會出來了那個點就出來了 對吧"},{"start":3761.667,"end":3768.648,"text":"這個議領指的是專業家級的議領還是助理費的議領請你們這邊回答我想就先請那個立法院先說明好了就是針對這次的修法它可能會增加的預算然後以及就是剛剛有提到涉及到就是每一個立法委員每年的稅費"},{"start":3788.376,"end":3815.508,"text":"的增加那是涵蓋所有的包含後面這些佳績還是他是另外的主席跟各位委員報告人事處報告那有關那個劉委員提案這個修正動議如果以低一點以低一點的按每一個委員的稅費的5倍那我們在委員跟黨團這一部分在增加的經費一年就會增加了1億465萬"},{"start":3818.566,"end":3829.011,"text":"對 委員加黨團的部分那黨團我們是用四個黨團來計算我想處長請你坐到前面你這樣比較方便然後而且用我們的麥克風會比較清楚 好嗎"},{"start":3840.845,"end":3860.342,"text":"因為現在牛委員的修正動議跟提案他是按每一立法委員每年稅費的五倍那黨團那邊也是依照這邊黨團那邊是六倍所以我們兩個合計把它計算起來委員跟黨團的部分他一年就會增加了一億四百六十五萬多"},{"start":3861.082,"end":3877.375,"text":"那有關專業加擠這一部分因為是涉及到證書跟學歷那因為每一個委員他聘用的那個公費助理我們不知道他需要的所需要的那個人才是什麼所以我們只能用最寬估的"},{"start":3878.095,"end":3904.729,"text":"方式來寬估那我們是用113位委員14位助理4個黨團16位助理那我們先採計律師大概就是一萬五嘛那碩士學歷三千用一萬八來計算那就要三億五千多萬那接下來資深家企我們就要一起因為資深家企也是都有增加的部分那資深家企我們是用"},{"start":3905.973,"end":3927.642,"text":"也是113人的14位然後黨團4個16位但是因為我們是用預算原額的半數因為我們真的也不知道我們用預算原額的半數然後這樣下去計算然後以8年以上未滿12年來計算它的資深佳績那大概就會增加7900多萬對 都是"},{"start":3934.83,"end":3944.821,"text":"對那當然後面還有年終工作獎金對在職進修然後還有那個結婚補助生育補助商帳補助跟撫慰金部分我請教那個處長現在因為年終工作獎金跟這個健康檢查這些費用是本來就有的了"},{"start":3957.39,"end":3986.304,"text":"年终工作奖金本来就是现行制度就有的因为年终工作奖金新的修正动议年终工作奖金部分它又把专业家企跟资深家企要纳进来所以它会更多因为我们现在是用一定就是现在每个月大概40几万来计算年终工作奖金可是修正这个提案版本它必须再加计资深家企跟专业家企所以它的年终奖金就会再提高是"},{"start":3992.275,"end":4013.09,"text":"這個我一併回答一下剛剛幾位委員的一些問題啊第一個剛剛林月琴委員有講這個歐美日韓的一些制度等等啦那每一個國家都有不同的制度我也不瞞各位說啦如果真的要把它轉型成比如說像日本韓國的這種辦公準公務員的附鎖關制度我也是有版本但你也知道這修正一個版本基本上曠日廢死啦"},{"start":4013.59,"end":4028.664,"text":"那大家 這個立法院是團體生活我想大家也不會反對這件事情所以眼下能夠做可以立刻讓它有進展的其實是單一條文的修正而且針對助理的待遇可以具體的提升如果你提一整個版本然後大家又喋喋不休因為事實上過去"},{"start":4029.945,"end":4045.661,"text":"幾屆民進黨委員也有提過版本但最後即便是民進黨多數他也沒有辦法順利過關嘛所以我想你要立個新法到最後誠意很高但他沒有辦法落地我個人是沒有採取這樣子的一個決定我反而覺得務實的趕快可以調整額度可以不用那麼高大家都可以商量著來"},{"start":4046.241,"end":4063.8,"text":"你有一些財政負擔我們都可以協調但是我的意思是說總要往前邁進這一步這是我在個人做的選擇這我跟你們報告一下第二個有關議領的部分剛剛很多委員去提到說你資深家級專業家級可能有議領的部分是因為那個很單純嘛比如說一個人他有律師證書就理論上你就要得到所謂的專業家級多少錢"},{"start":4064.901,"end":4080.307,"text":"但後來發現如果他的資格被撤銷或者他其實是造假那他就會出現議領的問題那為什麼本質上助理費不會出現議領的問題呢是因為我今天跟你約定好四萬塊我就是簽四萬塊出去啊我不可能簽四萬塊出去然後立法院突然匯了一個四萬八千塊給你然後出現八千塊的議領嘛"},{"start":4081.727,"end":4103.517,"text":"對不對所以你們剛剛講的所謂人頭跟什麼跟義領是不一樣的概念是不一樣的概念所以我覺得這個地方做一下說明為什麼這些特別的家籍有義領是因為它有硬性條件硬性條件消滅的時候它就會出現義領的問題但是我們要給助理多少錢是我們都先簽好的簽好是照立法院立法院是照我們簽出去的金額去核發助理的薪水所以不可能立法院多發錢"},{"start":4104.938,"end":4122.068,"text":"我不知道這樣講大家有沒有聽得懂有關議領的部分那再來是培育委員剛剛講稅費的部分我跟大家借這個機會說明一下以前大家就是一個定額現在是42萬嘛對不對而且是每一次都要靠黨團協商這樣我是覺得很不穩定的我們的稅費立法委員的稅費一個月是109500多塊"},{"start":4124.21,"end":4140.167,"text":"稅費的5倍大概就是50萬也就是說比過去大概一個立法委員加了大概7萬塊的助理費的總額可以增加拿來給立委助理來做加薪那為什麼要跟稅費因為稅費我們的稅費跟軍公教的調薪是掛鉤的軍公教只要調幾%我們的稅費就會增加幾%我們的稅費增加幾%助理費補助的總額就增加幾%"},{"start":4144.412,"end":4171.215,"text":"這樣自然而然只要軍公教的這個薪水調漲助理費的總額也調漲我們就應該要幫助理加薪那我要講嘛就是這件事情為什麼我講我們一定要提修正版本就是因為這些錢不能進立法委員的口袋嘛這些錢就是要由立法院代收代付直接交給助理這樣子就不會有流入立法委員口袋的這樣子的一個問題這些我在條文裡面都會寫得很清楚以上三個問題我簡單做一下回應謝謝請莊越雄委員發言"},{"start":4173.73,"end":4191.166,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝主席其實剛剛立法院這邊也沒有講清楚我說這個案子國民黨提這個案子不太好心提這個案子不是為了幫助你加薪不是為了什麼要幫他法治化 不是當初是為了要除罪化就這麼簡單那現在提這個修正"},{"start":4194.409,"end":4223.324,"text":"案我認為是有懺悔但是有懺悔以後呢定義還是沒有講清楚我說我肯認你底下寫的這一些把立法院國會助理的這一些助理的專業家級也好資深的家級也好健康檢查這一些福利把它做一個法制化這個我都可以接受但是必須要講清楚的就是我再講一次就是說你那個立法院每一年以公務預算編列立法委員的補助費用沒有定性清楚的話"},{"start":4224.504,"end":4235.476,"text":"還是一樣啦 還是一樣啦按照最高法院的一個見解尤其剛剛劉委你提到說行政院也有提一些版本那個都沒有依託到議員助理補助費它不是議員的實質的薪資範圍啦那你這個地方如果講清楚的話就像比如說這個助理費"},{"start":4246.482,"end":4256.834,"text":"要補助立法委員的好那這個話要講清楚他不是立法委員的實質薪資只要這個清楚啦後面都沒有問題啦細節我不會跟你去計較真好啊跟法治法真好啊啊但是呢不能修法完以後你淨富惡獨完以後啊"},{"start":4267.245,"end":4269.128,"text":"社會滑爛了 得會啊起火了 著火了 燒到你國民黨了趕快你們來提這個案子提這個案子好像你們又講的義正直言我是要幫立委的助理 國會助理來提升他們的家籍不是"},{"start":4283.181,"end":4308.715,"text":"這個案子本來原來都不是這個這個案子原來就是要除罪話那現在你把這些牛委員提這個修正修正版我來肯認但是有一個地方我認為我們共同來講清楚啦就是說這一些錢你說本來本來按照按照你的修正理由你也講清楚啊你本來是立法院基於補助立法委員助理費而代為給付"},{"start":4310.32,"end":4327.348,"text":"對 你們本來寫這個 好那這個是什麼意思立法院的意思說 那沒我的事喔我是代理你立法委員來給付而已喔所以那個還算什麼也是立法委員的補助費啊所以我們必須要先講清楚這筆錢不是立法委員的實質薪資"},{"start":4328.598,"end":4355.615,"text":"我相信前面會被判刑的人都是這樣子嘛你議會的部分會被議會那個議員會柵嶺助理會或者國會議員去柵嶺助理會會被法院認為你這是柵嶺的原因就是說你那些助理會本來就不是你議員或者說你立法委員的實質薪資如果不是實質薪資的話後面這些就沒有問題啦所以我覺得剛才這個大家說得清楚啦但是"},{"start":4359.426,"end":4366.292,"text":"劉委員你也必須要去肯認一件事情就是要拖渡這個法案才會變成這樣子那我們一起來解套麻煩請沈博焱委員"},{"start":4371.801,"end":4392.271,"text":"我就一起好了然後再一起回那我認為就是說因為我剛剛第一個還是提到程旭的事項那剛剛聽立法院的這個試算加起來也快5億還是超過5億快6億所以當然不是當然我是覺得說如果說他都是放在福利上面他的確也是個不小的金額但是就如果是這個金額的話能夠在委員會討論我覺得還是"},{"start":4394.052,"end":4418.412,"text":"還是比較好啦就是說這個因為照理說你看這個條文現在那麼多文字也算多然後呢這個涉及的金額也高所以呢這個我覺得進入就程序上我覺得在委員會討論真的是比較合理好但這沒有關係我還是回到逸琳就是說因為剛剛你委員有舉一個例子就是說比如說一個人拿4萬一個人拿4萬那我們現在假設我們聘因為他聘8到14位嘛"},{"start":4419.593,"end":4443.192,"text":"那假設就是拼拼8位那一個人4萬那8位那這樣就是32萬所以我們現在的我的議領的問題就在這裡是因為因為你寫的議領是有議領或應返還專業家籍那我會覺得這個議領是不是跟專業家籍有關呢這看起來在條文是分開的這個文字上或許可以想一下但我的意思就是說好假設一個人4萬8個人是32萬對不對這個是剛剛舉的例子"},{"start":4446.874,"end":4472.47,"text":"那因為剛剛按照說的這個稅費是十萬然後是五倍嘛所以大概是五十萬我們就假設是五十萬好了或者五十幾萬那這樣立法院撥款是撥三十二還是撥五十照理說應該撥三十二嘛對不對好那既然應該撥三十二的話那我們就應該要把這一個稅費的這一個五倍應該當作上限才對啊就它是一個上限啊對不對因為因為你今天"},{"start":4476.103,"end":4498.645,"text":"為上限因為我覺得這個是一個重點就是說第一個你的金額要先確認對不對那你的金額如果這一個是個上限這個要明訂嘛這是第一個然後第二個就是他到底在因為我們現在講的是50那你今天有32你有18還沒有領到那如果今天有18沒有領到過往發生的案例就是有人用人頭嘛"},{"start":4499.445,"end":4526.63,"text":"對不對或者用各式各樣的方式然後把這一個錢拿回來就拿到自己的口袋那這個對我來講因為如果50它是一個上限你這個18你就是實質上你沒有用到你沒有用到結果你拿了人頭來用這個無論如何就是一個詐領那如果這個是詐領的話我們應該要把這個是詐領把它寫在法條上就是說我們把它定性上它是一個詐領因為我為什麼這樣講呢大家回憶一下之前我不是修那個懸罷法"},{"start":4527.99,"end":4542.78,"text":"我們說選罷法的時候就有在講說這是國民黨過的提案它裡面就有特別提到如果有偽造簽名等等之類的就回到偽造文書相關的罪章這個是有通過的法案這也是你們提出來的"},{"start":4543.38,"end":4565.975,"text":"所以我覺得對我們來講今天要杜絕爭議其實很簡單就直接把就是乍領相關的情形然後也不是說要把構成要寫在法條上都不用因為它就是一個組織法而已就是說回歸原來貪污自罪條例的規定回歸刑法這個使公務員在乃不時的規定那這樣就沒有爭議了因為這樣大家就說OK法律定性清楚了我們為什麼說我們因為剛剛這個陳委員呢"},{"start":4570.639,"end":4590.012,"text":"好 那沒關係但總之剛剛陳委員有提到說現在的法律的見解是不穩定的那我覺得立法院應該有這樣的一個義務把法律定性清楚就是說我們何必要做一件事情然後到最後都要等法院法院到底會把這個認定是詐領還是不是詐領然後整個社會在那邊猜應該不用"},{"start":4590.532,"end":4606.993,"text":"最好的方式就是立法院直接定性說什麼樣是詐勵如果是這個就回歸到貪汙自罪條例的規定那這樣也就沒有爭議那這樣對我們來講我們就會知道說OK這就是一個完全在爭取福利的法案那這樣的話其實我覺得就不會有這些紛爭這樣會比較快這樣比較快"},{"start":4611.885,"end":4627.037,"text":"好謝謝主席我們來看一下現在時間是11點47分我們從11點開始開會照理說這麼精實的討論應該要發生在委員會裡頭而不應該發生在黨團協商所以我還是要再度的抗議其實進負二讀這件事情真的非常的糟糕怎麼說"},{"start":4627.797,"end":4652.073,"text":"我們剛剛特別請那個人士你們告訴我們原來如果你用最寬的方法算你會增加這麼多錢那如果要增加這麼多錢錢從哪裡來納稅人繳的錢所以這件事情原本我們在提出相關的預算增加本來就要跟相關的行政機關討論可是我們看起來也沒有去跟行政院討論大家不要忘了我們立法院的錢是行政院就是國庫是人民納稅人的錢所以我再次強調為什麼剛剛張瑞雄委員一直強調"},{"start":4658.057,"end":4664.682,"text":"只用近乎二讀來解決這個事情看起來是非常糟糕第二個剛剛劉雪婷一開始就說什麼以訛傳訛社會嘩然沒有以訛傳訛你去看陳玉珍的版本你自己都說不贊成所以不是以訛傳訛是你們現在提了一個版本要出來洗白然後我們現在還在幫你們補救"},{"start":4674.89,"end":4690.35,"text":"我要再次強調不是以而傳而是因為有成癒症的版本衝在前面造成社會嘩然所以再次強調不是以而傳而再來違上限這件事情剛剛沈博洋已經提出來了如果就法律的定性上那個牛許廷委員你也贊成那你等一下就用麥克風講一次嘛我們就做下紀錄"},{"start":4691.091,"end":4719.61,"text":"再来法律定性没有清楚这件事情真的就会导致刚刚普马说的这些事情你要不要谈这个贪污自罪条例的事情刑法室公务员登载不实这些事情相关法律就办而不能用司法的契约协议为由主张来免责这件事情如果我们立法院自己都没有写清楚以后是不是不同的法官针对不同的案子就有不同的判例出来那你要人民怎么相信他选出来的立法委员是真的在为国家做事还是只是为了自肥自己的口袋还有我现在就公开讲"},{"start":4720.45,"end":4745.943,"text":"我不希望明天禮拜五假設你們硬要過水表決你們會做的事情是什麼一你們會在今天下午叫韓國瑜召開院長協商繼續過水我們就等著看我們等一下黨團會收到什麼樣的協商公文一我不希望看到二假設今天韓國瑜下午真的舉行了過水式的院長協商我們在明天禮拜五的院會早上議程要審定的過程當中我們不知道幾點會收到另外一個黑箱表決的版本"},{"start":4746.323,"end":4762.793,"text":"就是可能是牛許廷的版本加之前爆衝陳玉珍的版本然後最後我們要三讀表決你可以等一下告訴大家你們國民黨不會做這樣的壞事我剛剛就已經說了我希望不要看到我沒有在對你做指控我只是誠摯的提出民進黨團的呼籲跟告訴社會大眾我們不希望等一下一下午看到韓院長過水協商二明天議程審定之後看到國民黨再推出一個黑箱的版本"},{"start":4773.18,"end":4799.18,"text":"然後看起來是牛許廷的版本其實夾帶了陳玉珍要爆衝自肥的版本好 那麼我想還需要回應嗎因為事實上我想我們今天的這個案子主要是這個完成在我們這個政黨協商的部分主席 沒關係就讓我回應一下那就請牛委員 麻煩三分鐘"},{"start":4800.303,"end":4815.419,"text":"這個好這個莊瑞雄委員一直在講說還是在講說法律定性的問題但法律定性你如果從助理費不管是從歷史的流變跟現行的制度跟議員的參照來講他都是補助費對不對就是這樣子所以我覺得這是我已經講很多次了"},{"start":4820.564,"end":4834.599,"text":"當然不是實時清單你的什麼辦公室什麼什麼裝潢這些是實時清單不是嘛但他都是立法院給委員的部分嘛差你一秒對不對國民黨就只有你的講法跟你們國民黨不一樣而已我肯認你好不好好 謝謝我肯認你你這一點是對的可是你們國民黨就是把他當成"},{"start":4837.582,"end":4847.014,"text":"國會議員跟議員的實質薪資不然你提這個修正案你要解決什麼嘛所以現在在討論的是修正案而不是大水庫版本所以說嘛現在不是委員會嘛我就說你們在這裡洗白提這個懺悔的法案嘛就開大門走大路啦就很簡單啦你們這個人不應該這樣寵的啊"},{"start":4855.558,"end":4880.273,"text":"好 第二個是有關於剛剛財政的負擔那當然會增加嘛但我講這筆錢它就是給助理的失職補貼待遇我希望這件事情大家用開放的心態來討論因為這個錢就是給助理加薪的這是照顧我們所有的基層政治工作者我希望大家用這樣的心態來做討論那依然剛剛陳培宇委員講了很多一下子講說這一場協商非常的矜持一下講又是過水如果只是過水我就會講說我堅持"},{"start":4881.775,"end":4897.696,"text":"主席我插話一下我剛剛有跟你說我們這麼精實的討論應該在委員會啦不是在協商的時候討論嘛你看剛剛主席都已經叫你不要講只給你三分鐘主席我剛剛你剛剛指教我都很認真聽嘛你就不要打斷我對不對你又講精實要講過我今天來就是藉這個場合把這些話講清楚嘛"},{"start":4898.337,"end":4926.156,"text":"本質上就是在增加助理的補貼待遇剛剛講一個非常好就是說會不會出現奇奇怪怪的版本我非常非常希望大家可以在協商的過程中聚焦在助理的待遇這個調整如果OK可以簽字因為過去調整待遇大家都是盡量的達成共識的方式來處理這樣也絕對不會有借勢還魂的問題在這裡我也可以跟大家宣示國民黨黨團希望我來處理這件事情好好的團因為我本來就很主張助理待遇要提升"},{"start":4926.676,"end":4950.894,"text":"那既然現在出現這個版本 我就會堅持這個版本好不好堅持這個版本 請你放心如果最後又出現 我剛剛已經跟大家說了在這個地方 我都公開的講大水庫的版本 連國民黨黨內 大家都是不同意的所以不會出現不會出現陳培宇委員剛剛講的什麼突然揭示還魂 爆衝不會有這樣的事情不會有這樣的事情金服二讀是我的版本來 不是陳昱臻的版本 對不對"},{"start":4953.493,"end":4965.169,"text":"好啦 我講完了我總是要大門大錄的回應嘛謝謝主席啦好 麻煩這個陳委員也是給你最後的三分鐘因為我們想今天不會有結果啦主席我幫你喚醒你的建議那個記憶啦"},{"start":4966.943,"end":4984.151,"text":"你去聽我跟你說我就說這些討論是我們民進黨在救你因為你還是沒有回答法律定性的問題然後呢大家去看一下當時呢歐小林委員你自己記不記得你在那個經費集合委員上你要求我們法治局呢我不知道什麼你們一個莫名其妙的要求經費集合委員會呢去做出相關的報告當時呢那個你們的那個法治局的局長啊在我問他的時候他還上台說"},{"start":4990.214,"end":4998.137,"text":"他說啊這個就是韓院長要求他去做出相關研究跟報告那韓院長為什麼要求經費集合委員還有法治局做這個事情呢因為一樣嘛是議長黨團來所謂的議長團來拜訪然後就做這個事情結果呢後續呢法治局自己給搞出這個報告我一定要說他是給搞"},{"start":5007.921,"end":5034.153,"text":"然後在這個法治局的報告後來就作為這個高雄案判決相關的依據嗎 我們不確定所以呢 劉許廷委員 我跟你講啦你這個不只是洗白啦 你還是假白版本啦你這個版本多麼噁心 我告訴你你到時候就會拿法治局這個見解立法院法治局現在就是你們的人嘛你就拿這個法律見解然後加上你這個不願意寫清楚法律定性的修改條文說你們是 是你們國民黨跟民眾黨了不起在增加助理的福利然後最後呢 就除罪話了嘛"},{"start":5034.713,"end":5063.868,"text":"大家看懂了嗎就是這樣的招數請台灣人民看清楚拿著法治局自家人做的報告然後呢又不願在法律定性上寫清楚然後最後禮拜五好啦就算你真的以為你坦蕩蕩沒有加上陳玉珍的版本啊一樣最後所有的法官是不是就要拿著高鴻安這個判例來說法律定性沒有寫清楚嘛你法律定性不寫清楚然後你也不願意承諾然後剛沈伯陽問你問題你也沒有回答嘛要不要把那個所謂的你們從選罷法修的那邊事情"},{"start":5064.528,"end":5089.828,"text":"一過來 貪污之罪條例的部分或是刑法使公務員登載不實的事情你為什麼不肯回答 不敢回答呢好 麻煩這個首委最後30秒30秒就好 30秒就好因為我覺得這整件事情就是說我們就還是我再主張一次這整件事情是增加福利的絕對不是問題但是問題是出在就是說法律定性我們自己立法院講清楚是好事這樣其實也是在幫助我覺得都是在幫助國民黨"},{"start":5090.549,"end":5112.649,"text":"那如果說今天在這個部分議領的部分能夠回歸貪污自罪條例那我乍領的部分能夠回歸貪污自罪條例這個一定就是可以跟讓就是這個會國人會非常清楚說對對對絕對不是在除罪化而是在增加福利這樣其實就一翻兩瞪眼這其實也不用幾個字就可以解決的事情所以我覺得最後再把這個主張再講一次謝謝"},{"start":5115.576,"end":5138.484,"text":"因為剛剛陳培明委員大概有講到一個部分我稍微解釋一下我是在當經費集合委員會的時候當時候有看到我們立法委員在聘任助理的部分的確是非常僵化沒有彈性不能夠聘任兼任助理臨時工等等所以後來就是請法治局可以做一份報告有關於國費"},{"start":5140.725,"end":5166.005,"text":"這個國會助理聘用的事情所以這個完全就是公開透明而且當時在經費集合委員會上面還特別要求立法院所做的報告應該要公開所以這是不分藍綠的就是希望說能夠了解世界各國對於國會助理這個問題好 那麼所以請陳美語委員不要去怪罪這個法治局因為他們其實也是依照他們的專業來提出這份報告書的"},{"start":5168.927,"end":5189.796,"text":"我沒有怪罪法治舉我是怪罪這些提出莫名其妙案子的委員OK 那麼看起來我們今天針對立法院組織法的32條33條35條的修正草案的這些內容沒有共識沒有共識所以本席現在要做一些宣示就是本日協商"},{"start":5192.703,"end":5211.058,"text":"本日協商的過程公開發言內容都已經錄音錄影並且列入記錄但是因為仍然無法達成共識所以我們就後續依照立法院職權刑事法第12章相關規定處理那麼我們今天的會議就到此結束謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"167326","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167326","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a880d9bb53ad67a71dc6bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b2b49bd0206f014fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"10:23:12 - 10:34:01","影片長度":"00:10:49","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:23:12+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:34:01+08:00","duration":649,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":7.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.25409375,"end":3.8953437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.19471875,"end":5.920343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.388468750000001,"end":8.957843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.12534375,"end":27.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.992843750000002,"end":37.290968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.56096875,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.360343750000006,"end":54.047843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.570968750000006,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.56659375,"end":55.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.017843750000004,"end":57.439718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.439718750000004,"end":69.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.42096875,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.57284375,"end":70.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.64034375,"end":69.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.37846875000001,"end":72.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.13346875,"end":78.58409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.07346875,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.63784375,"end":88.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.08034375000001,"end":90.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.49346875,"end":92.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.95721875000001,"end":94.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.50534375000001,"end":99.64409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.65659375000001,"end":104.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.36909375,"end":161.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.06471875,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.34284375000001,"end":168.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.48159375,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.23659375,"end":174.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.56909375,"end":175.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.09221875,"end":184.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.49159375000002,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.59596875000003,"end":200.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.48909375000002,"end":208.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.01096875000002,"end":218.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.91659375,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.12284375000002,"end":223.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.82721875000001,"end":237.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.69846875000002,"end":274.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.84034375000005,"end":279.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.53159375,"end":289.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.67346875000004,"end":292.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.28909375,"end":292.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.96409375,"end":367.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.00659375000004,"end":345.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.16159375,"end":353.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.87221875,"end":398.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.55096875000004,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.92846875000004,"end":413.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.83971875000003,"end":413.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.85659375,"end":413.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.87346875000003,"end":413.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.95784375000005,"end":413.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.97471875,"end":436.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.03034375000004,"end":436.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.94159375000004,"end":441.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.41346875000005,"end":441.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.86909375000005,"end":444.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.05846875000003,"end":454.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.20909375,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.37784375,"end":454.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.1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有請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長鐵道局楊局長跟公務局林局長 謝謝林福山局長部長早 兩位局長早我剛剛聽了我們國民黨跟民眾黨的委員講那個論調 想要討回"},{"start":28.069,"end":49.568,"text":"他們根本是倒贏為國這個我想這個到目前為止我們的這個今年度的總預算還躺在立法院還沒有審這個沒錢是要怎麼做建設他們一直把很多的問題推卸給我們的交通部推卸給我們相關的單位推卸給行政院真的是很離譜的那所以我想針對這樣的一個"},{"start":52.595,"end":71.691,"text":"立法院的一個困境部長我其實很憤怒我們屏東的尤其過去從我們的潘孟安前縣長到現在周初美縣長我們一路走來記得我們努力的屏東幾個幾項的重要的交通建設我想部長跟局長都非常清楚雙北現在買什麼要有什麼"},{"start":73.206,"end":92.553,"text":"他們的這個整個大眾交通運輸非常的便利捷運已經做過了我們屏東的高鐵還沒有來捷運也還沒有來甚至連我們現在屏南快速道路還在還貧真的我們的交通建設真的站不起來保水對我們屏東人情何以堪難道我們沒有納稅錢嗎太離譜了吧部長我想針對這樣的一個總預算的問題"},{"start":100.694,"end":120.011,"text":"交通部目前正在這樣的一個困境我們怎麼處理請部長說明報告委員您剛剛所提到的高鐵的部分我們也希望能夠繼續往前推進雖然說還有討論的這個空間但是我們還是希望往前推進我剛剛有講過就是說我們希望我們在高鐵的"},{"start":120.692,"end":138.503,"text":"部分已經20年了我們現在就是務實的延伸務實的延伸這個部分我們會努力來推進另外平南快的部分我們也希望能夠快一點來進行目前的可行性研究我們現在等行政院這邊來核定已經核定了另外"},{"start":139.764,"end":161.02,"text":"高屏二快的部分院長在去年其實也有到這個屏東去也有宣布過我們希望能夠今年來動工但是因為現在總預算沒有過我們很擔心這個動工的時程會不會去延遲那我們當然希望不要去延遲到所以我們會想盡辦法讓高屏二快的部分能夠趕快來做動工的動作"},{"start":162.253,"end":190.27,"text":"部長 我想 我知道包含您跟我們的交通部都很努力但是我們不能被受困於藍白可以政治算計但屏東的交通建設不能繼續落後我想對我們情何以堪尤其今天講的觀光發展為什麼屏東縣現在觀光會受到這麼樣的困境交通難道不是一個很重要的一個因素嗎不然你也常常去屏東你也很清楚我們光是要到屏東的路途裸遙萬"},{"start":191.653,"end":206.223,"text":"我每天坐車要坐火車坐高鐵來台北開會來回就要六個小時那對我們這些遊客來講他光是五天的行程來回平常就浪費兩天的交通耗的時間在那裡對我們來講怎麼會有誘因呢"},{"start":209.065,"end":222.71,"text":"我想這個問題我們都要去面對都要去解決好那剛剛部長你講的那針對高屏二塊原本我們預期是今年要動工那這個預算也已經都編代今年的總預算今年會不會動工"},{"start":223.971,"end":242.642,"text":"報告委員 我們原本的計畫是希望9月底能夠動工那現在總預算確實是有延遲到我們現在還是在請公路局想盡辦法我們想盡辦法趕快讓他能夠動工是不是 我請局長來回答一下 是這邊跟委員報告一下確實就是說高屏二塊今年新興計畫在今年的預算是3.5億"},{"start":243.903,"end":263.971,"text":"那裡面大概有這個1.5億是屬於設計那這個其他它將近2億是屬於用地徵收的部分那原來的現在在做這個篆桿這個設計當中那按照原定的期程是希望在9月底針對在這個台三線加入到因為是台台農土地比較容易取得希望來這個動工"},{"start":265.131,"end":291.998,"text":"那這個目前我們也很期盼這個預算趕快審查通過但是現在相關的這個前置的設計我們還是在這個改變當中這個要拜託交通部我們一樣要照期程的進行第二個平台快速道路那因為我上個禮拜我有請環境部跟部裡面來討論我們希望能夠加快這個重規跟環境的一個進度那這部分局長我們目前的進度會不會再能夠提前"},{"start":293.279,"end":307.752,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下就是說就是委員大概就是非常關切那環境部那邊也在這一個協助那另外一個部分這一個就是這禮拜大概就是上禮拜大概就是城鎮委那邊也有特別這個召集來跨部會做協助"},{"start":308.152,"end":325.681,"text":"那目前大概就是說第一階段環評的部分這個我們已經提送環境部那環境部也很幫忙在2月4號會來做這個審查那如果說順利的話這個分手界定完之後那就可以這個配合我們現在現行的這個中規的一個作業那開展第二階段的環評"},{"start":326.841,"end":344.343,"text":"那陳政委這個也召開會議來協助那希望說訂這個目標在116年8月可以把這個二節環評把它做就是這個通過那相關的部分我們局裡面公務局也跟這個屏東縣政府大概有這個協調"},{"start":345.824,"end":366.295,"text":"因為未來在水底寮那邊會有一個加油道那這個跟水底寮外環道的公司185的一個聯絡道部分的話我們跟屏東縣政府也有這個公司那會作為這個仙島工程來做一個處理那希望說在116年底這個仙島工程可以來動工"},{"start":367.912,"end":384.383,"text":"好我希望今天局長講的這個未來我們都會來檢視一定要照這樣的期程來進行我們的屏東鄉親已經等很久了這條救命路真的等很久了部長那我想針對高鐵部分當然現在我們的前交通部的部長"},{"start":385.504,"end":401.146,"text":"這個最近也透過媒體一直在放話說這個我們屏東南沿屏東甚至北沿宜蘭的部分他們都認為沒有這個效益甚至有一些路廊的問題那我很遺憾的說過去這個整個"},{"start":402.275,"end":416.814,"text":"這個台灣的這個交通發展過去為什麼會重北青南難道這些人不用負責任嗎對得起我們屏東人嗎對得起宜蘭人嗎部長你有什麼看法是 報告委員我還是那句話啦對於高鐵的議題"},{"start":418.035,"end":435.669,"text":"我們現在交通部的立場是務實而穩健的延伸什麼叫務實而穩健的延伸第一在工程的技術上可以克服可以做得到那第二在國家的預算上可以支撐的了也就是我們的預算能夠負擔的了的狀況底下我們會務實來推動延伸的計畫"},{"start":436.963,"end":462.218,"text":"我想我們的賴總統已經講過了嘛我們未來要均衡台灣連交通都不會均衡是不會讓台灣進步啦我想這個部分我們屏東人我還是要特別強調我們還是要享有交通平權的一個權利我們屏東人是站著要保守的部長在我們座位來拍片這樣好不好這個部分我們交通部會來努力也感謝委員的支持好 那個兩位局長請回答請那個觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":471.136,"end":497.841,"text":"我想我們針對這個台灣的這個觀光發展那行政院這邊也提出了一個115到118的一個4年的一個計畫北回之巔跟這個微笑南彎的一個計畫但是很遺憾的一樣卡在總預算的問題那尤其針對目前整個這個我們觀光署也好針對整個這個地方政府也好會受到很大的一個觀光景點的一個發展跟觀光活動的一個推動的一個瓶頸"},{"start":498.701,"end":526.188,"text":"那面對這個問題我們觀光署會不會來繼續來協調繼續來推動這個案子謝謝委員提出來這個問題因為今年的擴大內需跟我們的北回直電都是國家重要級的建設公共建設那這件事情也是屬於各地方政府也非常的期待跟支持那在去年觀光署就已經組成了為了北回直電這個案子我們已經組成了一個總顧問團"},{"start":528.308,"end":554.125,"text":"希望以軟帶硬把這條軸線上面除了公共建設之外但是到底有哪些的故事在這裡先已經在內部做盤點所以我們是急需要這個計畫趕快通過那我們相關後面的工作才能開始啟動大家都重視觀光產業的發展但是如果預算不過就會勢必上延後了我們後面整個台灣觀光發展的一個機會那在這邊還是懇請立法院趕快審預算趕快通過預算謝謝"},{"start":556.266,"end":575.577,"text":"因為我聽說國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說因為你們現在規劃的案子都是否我們這個綠營執政的縣市其實我們把計畫攤開來看看國民黨的縣市難道沒有嗎更多花蓮台東南投都有啊我想這是一個均衡觀光的一個做法"},{"start":576.477,"end":599.563,"text":"那目前我們的柯執恩委員 謝榮介委員 蘇勛委員你們也是要進行選縣市長難道你們不支持這些案子嗎所以我們還是要再三呼籲在野黨要趕快來省預算 不要再阻擋總預算我想這個部分能夠讓我們的觀光發展能夠趕快往前推進那最後我想 最後一個問題部長 最近這個101事件你有什麼看法"},{"start":601.785,"end":616.755,"text":"101事件我們這個爬101這個是國人大家都很振奮的一件事情那在過程當中其實交通部也有幫上一些忙但是我們沒有把它特別去做宣傳因為這個是101的這個甲董事長他們努力的方向"},{"start":617.662,"end":645.135,"text":"因為我知道我們現在觀光行銷上面我們當然有很多的策略了包含網紅也好 包含演唱會經濟也好但我想我們現在這個不同的課程尤其包含國內外的這個遊客要來一定有不一樣的這個課程的安排跟這個玩法我們觀光署也應該要與時俱進是 要想辦法不一樣的方式啦是 方便自己會主動去做讓大家願意來關注這樣的一個發展我想這是一個很好的一個案例啦好 謝謝"},{"start":646.498,"end":647.566,"text":"好 謝謝許祐魁委員"}]}},{"id":"167325","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167325","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88cf4cf92afbe5ecc26bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b2b49bd0206f014fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"10:11:59 - 10:22:46","影片長度":"00:10:47","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:11:59+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:22:46+08:00","duration":647,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.92534375,"end":4.6040937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.992218750000001,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.127218750000001,"end":5.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.72596875,"end":8.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.649093750000002,"end":56.039093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.00346875,"end":14.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.812843750000003,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.567218750000002,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.36284375,"end":36.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.393468750000004,"end":68.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.679718750000006,"end":60.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.32409375,"end":68.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.50971875,"end":70.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.00721875,"end":75.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.56346875,"end":78.58409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.12409375,"end":82.56659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.88721875,"end":85.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.39721875000001,"end":87.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.20284375,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.30221875000001,"end":100.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.43284375,"end":103.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.50846875,"end":106.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.71471875,"end":107.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.27971875,"end":122.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.28596875000001,"end":133.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.84971875000002,"end":133.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.88346875000002,"end":134.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.18721875,"end":136.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.88721875000002,"end":137.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.56221875,"end":140.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.85284375,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.13534375,"end":142.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.41346875000002,"end":146.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.59034375000002,"end":147.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.51846875,"end":172.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.53971875000002,"end":179.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.05346875,"end":188.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.65971875000002,"end":192.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.47346875000002,"end":195.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.05096875,"end":200.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.33284375000002,"end":205.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.78784375,"end":214.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.19159375,"end":220.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.76846875,"end":223.20284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.92846875,"end":234.62721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.82971875,"end":238.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.94721875000002,"end":244.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.97159375,"end":251.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.09721875000002,"end":271.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.35034375,"end":251.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.41784375,"end":251.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.35534375000003,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.05409375,"end":284.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.15534375000004,"end":284.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.20596875,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.54346875000005,"end":289.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.28534375000004,"end":313.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.37159375000005,"end":304.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.95659375,"end":348.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.63471875000005,"end":361.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.01659375,"end":429.4490937500000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謝謝主席請一下陳士凱部長還有楊振軍局長陳英秀署長陳署長"},{"start":13.94,"end":33.715,"text":"部長 剛才的委員討論到宜蘭高鐵的問題我是高雄栽培的立法委員但我也是宜蘭的子弟那針對宜蘭高鐵的問題我想現在宜蘭的主流民意已經不是在關心需不需要做"},{"start":34.255,"end":55.47,"text":"宜蘭的這個高鐵的延伸而是在關心相關宜蘭高鐵的進度到底什麼時候要到動工到底什麼時候要完工這個是宜蘭鄉親最主要關心的一個趨勢那是不是史詩級的災難或是需不需要宜蘭高鐵的延伸其實"},{"start":56.491,"end":85.459,"text":"在還沒有高鐵之前我就在交通委員會當時高鐵在興建的過程裡面也受到很大的攻擊也被認為是史詩級的一個災難認為高鐵就是廢鐵沒有必要做這樣的一個交通的一個工程那我們也看到高雄的捷運在做的時候紅線橘線也是被攻擊說高雄根本就不需要"},{"start":86.468,"end":107.245,"text":"捷運而且紅線局線完成之後我們要推動環狀的輕軌也是被攻擊說根本就沒有必要來做輕軌到現在輕軌已經是要買新車因為搭乘的人太多了班次要更密集而且要買新車"},{"start":109.329,"end":130.334,"text":"高雄的紅線跟橘線接應也已經不夠現在黃線已經在動工我們正在爭取紫線的這樣一個規劃當初的這些交通的規劃及完成才讓整個台灣的一日生活圈跟高雄現在的發展轉型以及高科技未來的城市的這樣的一個願景"},{"start":131.55,"end":142.329,"text":"才得以一步一步的實現這個宜蘭高鐵是要做的我現在先請教一下陳玉秀署長"},{"start":144.448,"end":172.532,"text":"我們現在總預算卡關但是原本陳玉秀署長有推出我們這樣一個國旅住宿的優惠方案相關的觀光業者大家都非常的期待因為在淡季期間我們編了23億不管是平日的住宿的優惠我們預計有16億然後生日的這樣一個住宿優惠大概有2000萬當然我們還有遊樂園的留宿方案等等"},{"start":173.601,"end":200.783,"text":"旅遊業者非常期待但是我們預計是應該是在4月要實施嗎是不是來說明一下是謝謝委員關心這個事情確實當時我們推出這個方案的時候業界普遍都是非常期待跟而且還有民眾打電話到光屬的旅客中心就感謝我們提出這個方案那現在當時我們的規劃第一個4到6月是全年度相對的比較淡的時候"},{"start":201.423,"end":222.982,"text":"那這樣再加上我們當時考慮的是如果12月31號前預算通過我們有兩個月的準備期加上一個月的宣傳期4月1號剛剛好執行我相信對這整個計畫是效益最好的時候那現在總預算仍然是在卡關的這樣一個過程那我們實施會不會受到延誤有沒有其他替代方案"},{"start":224.196,"end":244.313,"text":"勢必上是一定是會受到影響因為我們的準備期是真的需要最緊最快都還要一個半月的時間所以這會牽涉到我們到底預算什麼時候過如果四月到六月無法執行的話後面就變是有點事半功事倍功半效益就會不如預期"},{"start":245.054,"end":271.131,"text":"我建議我們相關的行政的籌備流程還是照常的進行總預算如果能夠順利通過就能夠立即的實施在還沒有實施之前因為淡季的這樣的一個補助優惠業者是非常的期待認為是有助於觀光的一個活力的一個發展那如果這個預算一直卡關我們也必須要有替代的方案我請教一下你們有沒有替代方案"},{"start":273.399,"end":288.676,"text":"我們還是希望要能去支持這個項目確實就因為我們大概從十月份開始已經討論相關的工作我們現在有點箭在弦上了部長我們現在整個總預算卡關我們對於觀光的發展"},{"start":289.497,"end":309.973,"text":"其實業者也都非常的明白是因為總預算卡關所以我們在相關的補助的這些優惠的方案或者是相關的國際旅遊的行銷或者是其他新興的計畫其實都碰到問題那部長對於這樣的一個觀光發展在面臨總預算被卡關的這樣的狀況之下你有什麼預備的這樣的一個處理的方案"},{"start":314.196,"end":330.412,"text":"報告委員我們當然以現在能夠做的內容來做就是說過去我們有的這個預算或者是計畫我們延續性的我們繼續來做但是如果有超過的大概就不行像您所提到的這個平日國旅優惠方案"},{"start":331.113,"end":347.663,"text":"這個就是超過了我們原本的那個額度的部分這個部分大概就沒有辦法來推但我們還是要呼籲立法院能夠趕快的審議我們的總預算讓我們的預算趕快過不然很多的事情包含TPAS在內你說要怎麼樣的預備方案其實有點困難"},{"start":348.263,"end":371.653,"text":"好 當然這個補助對於國旅的推動是有實質的幫助但是我要提醒部長跟署長我們對於觀光旅遊的一個發展還是要必須從區域的旅遊品牌就是地方的特色 多元永續還有旅宿的品質以及交通的改善來作為一個推動整體觀光發展一個重要的元素"},{"start":372.393,"end":397.505,"text":"當然我們在實質的政策對於軟硬體的這樣的一個推動其實更重要是對國內外旅客對於台灣旅遊的信任但是最近發生兩件事情對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任就產生了很大的疑問第一個就是知名大型旅行社用戶資料外洩的這樣一個問題那我們都知道"},{"start":398.385,"end":417.433,"text":"旅客有很多旅行社他是來代辦這些旅客的相關的這些旅遊的資料他們的資料會提供非常多的這些資料給旅行社發生這些外洩的狀況其實就讓國內外旅客對台灣的旅遊信任度就產生了這些質疑"},{"start":417.913,"end":435.919,"text":"那當然這展現了兩個問題第一個問題就是說我們對於業者管理這些個別的各自管理的這樣的一個狀況是怎麼處理的交通部觀光署必須要明確的掌握以及相關企業本身他資訊的這些安全的問題其實也浮現出來請部長說明一下"},{"start":442.367,"end":450.974,"text":"報告委員這個部分 觀光署應該會趕快去查處就是說已經進行查處我請那個旅行社負責的組長湯組長來簡單說明一下"},{"start":454.353,"end":473.78,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實針對那個旅行社各自部分我們分兩個部分一個就是我們平時就已經有在做查處那公安署已經有訂定計劃所以我們每年都會預防性的去做各自檢查那針對各自外線的旅行社的話我們會馬上啟動調查那針對五福這件我們昨天已經去查過了那我們都會依照相關規定來做辦理"},{"start":476.274,"end":488.721,"text":"那最主要民間它不是它是那種非關鍵基礎設施的管理範圍所以公機關是難以直接的介入那我們看到許多代辦業者"},{"start":490.956,"end":511.492,"text":"例如像這次的旅行社他們代辦民眾相關的這些業務他需要取得更多的這些用戶的個資企業本身他的資訊的安全防護技術其實是沒有辦法及時的更新類似的事件我認為還是會重複的發生"},{"start":513.894,"end":521.24,"text":"主管機關必須要督促以及協助業者來建立更完善的這種資訊安全的防護來 請簡單說明一下"},{"start":523.73,"end":549.826,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實都有在輔導業者我們也會希望他們可以參加就是相關的這個認證有一些旅行社已經有取得資安的認證那因為旅行社大部分都是中小型企業就是10人以下居多啦那大型企業其實我們都已經有在做個資檢查那五福發生這件事情應該也是駭客入侵啦那之前也有別的旅行社大家旅行社有發生過那其實發生之後他們都會特別的"},{"start":550.026,"end":576.439,"text":"不容許一再的發生這對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任會降低我是認為必須要跨部會來制定或者是更新既有相關各自的管理規範以及相關的資訊安全的一些指引而且要有定期的集合的機制而且我們要協助業者跟出發部來建立相關的這一種風險事件的這些預警以及預防"},{"start":577.239,"end":594.276,"text":"提供業者來他們在發生的時候能夠由資安院還有相關的單位來提供及時的協助最後我們來提一下我們相關的這些住宿的問題這也是影響到旅遊的這些信任那"},{"start":595.157,"end":622.972,"text":"我們看到民眾預計連結要出遊提前支付相關的訂金來訂定這些旅宿後續業者就說不好意思我們房間要整修我們也沒有辦法提供相同的房型提供來讓民眾來更換所以要求你們退訂然後退訂之後這樣的要求然後我們看到民眾發現業者在其他地方以更高的價格來販售相同的這些房型"},{"start":623.972,"end":642.106,"text":"這些觀光署有什麼處理的機制這個部分如果說消費者呢遇到這樣的問題他可以直接跟地方政府的小法官來提出申訴那如果查證屬實他是惡意棄單的話基本上我們是可以罰他三倍的那個罰金的這個部分是這樣子這個要確實的基準以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167324","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167324","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88d394018e116dd8976bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b3eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"10:01:08 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Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:01:08+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:11:37+08:00","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.5072187500000003,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.73346875,"end":14.290343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.610968750000001,"end":19.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.35284375,"end":22.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.00221875,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.035968750000002,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.11596875,"end":27.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.570968750000002,"end":29.089718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.152843750000002,"end":31.570343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.570343750000003,"end":31.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.80659375,"end":31.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.87409375,"end":31.890968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.890968750000003,"end":31.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.90784375,"end":31.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.97534375,"end":32.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.95409375,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.03846875,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.494093750000005,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.56159375,"end":39.096593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.90721875,"end":42.977843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.48846875,"end":44.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.977843750000005,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.43346875,"end":43.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.80471875,"end":44.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.188468750000006,"end":53.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.664718750000006,"end":49.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.35596875,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.862218750000004,"end":53.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.87909375,"end":53.963468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.963468750000004,"end":54.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.01409375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.03096875,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.88721875,"end":61.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.31659375,"end":64.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.86471875000001,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.89846875,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.96596875,"end":65.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.13471875,"end":65.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.38784375,"end":65.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.57346875,"end":69.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.69096875000001,"end":70.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.19721875,"end":75.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.23846875000001,"end":79.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.60909375,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.19471875,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.61659375,"end":86.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.13971875,"end":97.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.65284375,"end":102.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.18784375000001,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.81034375,"end":126.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.71159375,"end":126.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.89721875000001,"end":129.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.27221875,"end":139.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.97159375,"end":137.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.97534375,"end":144.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.75096875,"end":146.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.80534375000002,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.06221875,"end":159.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.75659375,"end":169.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.42221875,"end":171.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.97034375,"end":173.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.53534375,"end":176.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.59409375,"end":183.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.850343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台灣的經濟GDP其實都進步很多我們應該往好的方向去看去加強 誇獎我們台灣進步的地方那當然其實我們也希望說不管是行政院還是我們交通部 觀光署等等的相關的單位事實上台灣當然存在著貧富差距的問題那應該怎麼樣去幫助弱勢"},{"start":130.542,"end":158.983,"text":"那把這個弱勢再提升我想這個部分是我們做不夠要再繼續加強的那就拿觀光來講就是說那個觀光署長可以一起就拿觀光來講就是說我們以桃園機場跟高雄機場你可以看到其實桃園機場幾乎都飽和啦那我們如果說觀光署的角度用這個二線機場的宣傳所以你可以看到那個"},{"start":162.839,"end":185.245,"text":"其他韓國 韓國其實他們我覺得他們有很多東西可以參考著我們看怎麼樣去做因為觀光公社其實很多元 很活潑你包括到各地去分散 比如說他們還強化他們的二線城市的行銷包括金海 青州 大邱等那你再看那個"},{"start":189.151,"end":214.743,"text":"這個除了這個機場之外你可以看到他們所辦的在高雄所辦的活動高雄所辦的活動你看他們在高雄舉辦下酒祭就是推廣韓國的飲食文化那包括文化大使到我們那個展覽到我們的高雄的博鱷那包括我們其實有很多他們到高雄去也會推很多這個"},{"start":216.642,"end":236.423,"text":"釜山、大邱、光州、青山南北道等所以他們其實這個韓國觀光公司我特別去參觀了一下我那個去參觀的照片我還特別去參觀了一下他們的觀光公司所辦的活動其實真的是很多元"},{"start":238.005,"end":262.896,"text":"所以我在建議說觀光署事實上我們從觀光局變成觀光署當時崑澤委員跟我們交通委員外的委員也花了很大的力氣希望把觀光局變成觀光署就是提高格局包括人事權包括經費權都能夠提高格局但是呢我們覺得提高之後的變化現在讓我們感受沒那麼大"},{"start":263.84,"end":288.5,"text":"就是那個觀光局跟觀光署之間的變化事實上他可以多做很多的事情那這個觀光公社的概念我希望說觀光署可以再了解一下思考一下那再來就是飛機飛機事實上我們也希望說這個看起來不見得是觀光署在處理但是呢其實這都跟觀光有很大的關係"},{"start":290.523,"end":312.832,"text":"我記得之前兩位我們的部長跟署長都還不再指的前任的啦當時我一直在說布拉格希望能夠直飛這是桃園機場飛布拉格當時的部長跟署長都說不可能都說不可能但是我一直覺得東歐的市場"},{"start":314.362,"end":336.911,"text":"其實現在東歐因為他跟台灣有很不一樣的感情啦就他們也接受過共產主義的那個蹂躪然後呢他們現在變成民主國家之後他們也在發展經濟那他們對台灣的高科技台積電跟台灣的經濟的發展又滿嚮往的"},{"start":339.935,"end":368.834,"text":"所以現在東歐其實對台灣的重視程度我覺得我去東歐國會考察他們真的非常非常的友善所以當時我就判斷說布拉格應該是很有機會那後來開飛之後部長也知道成績大概都是九成以上所以這個載客率很高那我們觀光署現在有設辦事處的在歐洲就是"},{"start":369.901,"end":371.765,"text":"有哪幾個國家 部長知道嗎"},{"start":375.99,"end":404.756,"text":"法蘭克福跟倫敦都有那剛剛委員特別提到的那個捷克那我們法蘭克福辦事處呢3月份的大旅展結束之後就會往東歐走了也看到了我們這次的直航很感謝委員的一直持續的支持跟那個我們現在看到的就是東我想到的是東歐北中東南都要去思考了你看新宇其實他們聽到芬蘭他們"},{"start":406.894,"end":433.463,"text":"那個意願好像蠻高的啦這個很多人批評說我們派林昶佐去做芬蘭的大使好像是不是專業結果呢我看到一個新聞是林昶佐在芬蘭呢就脫下他的西裝閃靈到了那邊他就直接演唱了因為芬蘭是重金屬國家所以啊派他去當大使正好是用文化去做結合"},{"start":435.022,"end":462.281,"text":"所以現在航權又已經簽了對不對是不是有必要我們去努力在北歐 瑞士我們航權也已經很早就有了所以我在思考就是說是不是我們觀光署就是除了在英法德有我們的辦事處之外就北歐 中歐 東歐等等的是不是可以做一個思考"},{"start":463.614,"end":490.743,"text":"那也就是說在其他的國家裡面就是不同的國度我希望說我們都用這樣子的一個想法主動出局就類似包括韓國公社他們的這些做法那如何去推動台灣的我是一個想法就是說如果觀光署我們在世界各國都有我們的辦事處嘛那能夠類似比如說好2025的下九季這個他們韓國的公社到我們高雄來辦"},{"start":492.043,"end":498.433,"text":"其實台灣的美食文化可以說是世界應該是數一數二的包括"},{"start":499.352,"end":526.277,"text":"珍珠奶茶 包括小籠包 包括滷肉飯他們現在外國人說滷肉飯 都常常說滷肉飯小籠包也常常說小籠包這表示說 我們的名字已經燙到世界了珍珠奶茶 他們不是叫珍珠奶茶 他們叫芭芭茶但是 就是說像這樣子我們是不是可以主動到全世界各國去把我們台灣的因為你先讓他有體驗嘛 署長不是很重視體驗的活動嗎"},{"start":528.044,"end":546.018,"text":"是 跟委員報告剛剛委員特別提到的那個直航我覺得光屬未來的重點會跟著我們的直航走就是讓那個地方因為交通要先解決嘛所以我們就辦活動國人或者是當地人才有機會來到台灣這是第一個第二個 台灣的美食確實是引起世界的關注"},{"start":546.798,"end":575.269,"text":"我來的這六個多月基本上有很多國外的單位都是想跟台灣的這個美食做合作那這件事情確實也是屬於重中之重那這塊像我們今年今年上半年的越南會帶我們的版德就是越南團來吃台灣的版德這種主題型的方式其實也會持續性的推出以上跟委員報告沒事 我是簡單的就是說是我們其實觀光署的目的當時其實我還有一個"},{"start":576.417,"end":578.201,"text":"口號我覺得還蠻不錯的就是"},{"start":579.806,"end":606.383,"text":"處處都是打卡點步步都是觀光部那我也要希望說我們部長跟署長我這種感覺還沒有出來是不是能夠跟包括文化包括各部會其實就是說我們台灣的觀光要如何能夠推到全世界就像韓國的演唱會跟我們高雄的演唱會經濟這樣子一個方式能夠提高這個格局的思考"},{"start":607.303,"end":628.469,"text":"時間的關係先提到這裡下次再補充好 那希望說這個部分觀光署可以用一個不同的格局去做思考好不好可以小補充一下剛剛委員提到的那個北歐的部分是由我們駐倫敦代表處去參加旅展主要的市場就是北歐市場謝謝那盡快啦盡快把這個飛機航線把它完成好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167317","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167317","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88356e63b4f1d89ca55ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb571e7a2a83f9da65db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"10:32:49 - 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首先我本席先繼續追問有關食藥署事後緊急病要轉類為只是用藥的去年12月19號的時候根據食藥署回覆本席辦公室表示已經在114年3月4月的時候分別都召開了專家會議必於12月再次召開會議討論這個事辦計畫供應的事法性還有探討然後經過這些專家討論認為"},{"start":36.092,"end":40.073,"text":"增進緊急事後併用藥的可進性這些都還要再進一步的研議然後預計115年將持續召開會議取得各界的共識但是我想這個事情就是連我們最友好的日本鄰近的國家也都在114年8月29號專家會議中正式決議將緊急事後併用藥由處方藥轉類為指示用藥批准事後併用藥可以非處方用藥方式的販賣"},{"start":66.658,"end":69.52,"text":"開放女性可以就直接在藥局直接購買是先進醫藥國家中最後一個轉類為止是用藥的國家那為什麼衛福部的政策食藥署105年到現在已經10年了"},{"start":83.609,"end":95.414,"text":"一直在開會分別在召開緊急事後必應要轉為只是用藥的可行性的專家的會議還有緊急事後必應要用藥安全及可進行的事辦分享會議一直到現在都已經10年了為什麼沒有辦法執行"},{"start":101.556,"end":106.119,"text":"而且還沒有取得共識是因為開放緊急事後病藥轉類為指示用藥是不是會影響某些特定的團體的利益呢所以不願意開放呢因為我想也在民調中我也去看過民調的表示就是社會團體還有女性在這民調上面都顯示七八成是完全贊成同意的"},{"start":125.391,"end":130.273,"text":"那為什麼衛福部食藥署到現在還不願意開放呢那哪時候要開放呢哪時候要開完專家會議呢到底要拖到什麼時候才可以我們台灣跟國際接軌包委員那這個部分因為它涉及的廣泛比較廣泛所以上次12月開過會之後目前是希望說可以委辦計畫就是來做這個可進行的一個事辦計畫"},{"start":154.762,"end":169.575,"text":"這個部分當然就是主要這邊會牽涉到兒少團體家長團體 婦女團體還有醫界 藥界這邊其實他們都有不同的聲音那另外剛剛委員這邊講到日本的部分日本他應該是把它列為虛指導藥品"},{"start":171.136,"end":189.075,"text":"虛指導 呃不是不是處方藥啦應該是虛指導藥品的部分對 虛指導藥品就是當然不是處方藥啊現在就是處方藥要轉類成指示用藥嘛對對對對不對 讓大家方便要便民嘛大家可以到藥局來購買嘛對啊你現在還是處方藥那就沒有用了啊因為現在先進的國家都已經把它轉類成指示用藥"},{"start":190.376,"end":193.718,"text":"已經有88個國家都這樣那請問一下台灣的醫療一直說要國際接軌一直要進步為什麼這一個政策就可以這樣耽誤了10年呢主要這邊似乎還有一些配套措施需要一些發展比如說他必須要記錄這些每個個案如果未來到只是用要有記錄第二個就是那個場域規劃因為有些是未成年那個隱私的問題"},{"start":218.509,"end":232.1,"text":"沒關係這是整個是配套的措施這個沒有關係這個就是事辦計畫裡面的細節但是好既然我們要事辦計畫跟日本一樣日本也是這樣一步一步的推行的我也知道但是如果說我們現在就是要事辦計畫到底什麼時候要事辦計畫從去年講到現在要事辦計畫到現在都還沒有那請問一下什麼時候要事辦計畫什麼時候還要再召開專家會議"},{"start":242.388,"end":247.313,"text":"主要是今年115年我目前知道115年我們會有一個委辦計劃來做那要盡快不要再讓我們再等10年喔是好謝謝那我再繼續請教一下次長美國商務部在15日的時候有達成貿易的協定就是將美國的商品關稅稅率降低15%看起來其實是有助於台灣醫療的產業的外銷的發展"},{"start":268.832,"end":272.593,"text":"但最主要的問題是台灣現在的經濟規模比較小整個的製藥上面的藥廠的量人其實是普遍的不足的所以我們的製藥業其實整個就是為了零關稅其實大部分都想要把藥品外銷到美國去現在你也知道台灣現在幾乎都在缺藥的情況下"},{"start":290.04,"end":294.902,"text":"如果是這個情況的話衛福部要如何保證國內的製藥產業在希望政府的協助擴大外銷的同時又可以保障我們國內的藥品供給無虞呢目前應該是藥品美國有關藥品部應該還沒有有稅"},{"start":312.307,"end":331.058,"text":"現在是零關稅嘛但是大家都想要過去嘛這樣的話是不是有大家他們有想要組成一個製藥國家隊呢但是如果都過去的話台灣在缺藥的情況下那我們是不是都沒有我們現在其實很多原廠藥原廠藥他們因為有其他學名藥所以沒有嘛"},{"start":331.158,"end":334.82,"text":"所以現在我們是國內市上有相當多的學名藥可以來補這一塊我説的是缺藥的品項有些缺藥品項就是因為國外原廠藥已經沒有了沒有的情況下我們現在這些藥可能只有那個原廠藥但是台灣開始要來輔導這些國內的製藥業去成為一個就是這個藥的學名藥要開始開發但是才能因應這些缺藥的情況"},{"start":361.615,"end":386.595,"text":"所以我們現在就是希望說能夠就是針對未來有可能缺藥的部分要強化預警另外也要提升我們的儲備量還有就是在地製造我們希望說讓我們國內的藥廠可以增加製造學名藥這個部分最後就是希望能夠確保藥價就不要砍太低這個我們會跟健保署這邊一起來配合"},{"start":386.915,"end":400.031,"text":"是是 藥價是千萬不能砍太低現在真的是都沒有藥可以救命了所以希望那個次長可以多多幫忙一下好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 那接下來我請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":407.329,"end":411.352,"text":"委員好副委員長你知道花東地區其實在地的特產的商品中其實很多是天然而且是無毒的還有原名特色的產品都是非常文明的像我的舉例就是像薄皮辣椒啦花蓮薯啦麻薯還有瑞穗香午後的蜜香紅茶還有咖啡最主要還有優質的有機米文旦柴魚片這些還有很多原住民手工的文創的藝品都是非常有當地特色的然後"},{"start":437.629,"end":441.674,"text":"大家也知道僑委會這幾年都是有舉辦台灣觀光產業商機的參訪團所以僑委會邀集了全球六大洲的僑台商回到台灣來參與都希望藉著這樣國際網路好協助拓展台灣的觀光產業的全球版圖"},{"start":458.672,"end":461.093,"text":"那我想請教委員長就是當時僑委會有沒有帶著這些僑胞企業去過花東呢有沒有爭過對花東的有機農業舉辦過專屬的媒合呢報告委員有的那也很高興跟您分享因為去年的這個2025台灣觀光產業商機參訪團我們其實就是拉到花蓮去也在花蓮的這個原住民的文化館"},{"start":481.38,"end":485.961,"text":"有辦活動跟座談會那那一場呢因為我自己親自有參加所以我知道現場的單位呢其實是從宜蘭縣政府花蓮縣政府到台東縣政府還有我們所有的國家公園的管理處那以及農業部都有代表參加那所以我們媒合了地方政府還有中央部會以及國家公園的觀光資源我們介紹給這個"},{"start":505.566,"end":513.495,"text":"觀光產業來自全世界的業者那希望他們能夠多多來推廣我們花東充滿這個觀光商機的這個產業天然的景色還有我們有很多有機的農業漁業有一些非常好的精緻的農漁產品都很適合在這個觀光旅遊的業務上面來做推廣"},{"start":527.27,"end":532.032,"text":"好 謝謝希望以後有更多的機會因為我們花東地區其實很多小籠與創作家其實都缺乏外銷的通路而橋台商在海外都是擁有很多商店還有物流網有的還經營連鎖的餐飲店所以我們花東其實種植很好的單生紅藜這些都是很好的養生食材所以希望這個是橋委會的業務之一希望能夠讓可以像橋台商也可以代理花東的優質產品"},{"start":555.863,"end":557.285,"text":"然後也可以幫忙橋箱轉型可以幫忙台東和花蓮在台灣花蓮這整個的經濟希望能夠創造雙贏好嗎謝謝謝謝委員我們全力來做謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167316","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167316","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8839ce9bfea741ec9852fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb571e7a2a83f9da65db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:30:08 - 10:41:56","影片長度":"00:11:48","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:30:08+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:41:56+08:00","duration":708,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.52034375,"end":3.6590937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.6590937500000003,"end":3.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.74721875,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.3209687500000005,"end":7.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.87784375,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.442218750000002,"end":14.610968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.89784375,"end":15.167843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.167843750000003,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.26784375,"end":37.594718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.97596875,"end":29.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.345968750000004,"end":37.510343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.594718750000006,"end":50.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.15471875,"end":45.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.86284375,"end":50.588468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.50409375,"end":57.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.59159375,"end":57.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.844718750000006,"end":59.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.734718750000006,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.126593750000005,"end":66.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.60721875,"end":65.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.65784375,"end":67.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.05846875,"end":79.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.71471875,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.88346875,"end":82.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.05596875,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.39096875000001,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.82284375,"end":116.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.36284375000001,"end":126.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.35721875,"end":126.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.49221875,"end":127.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.33159375,"end":130.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.77846875,"end":131.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.87971875,"end":131.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.41534375,"end":137.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.68034375000002,"end":177.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.13409375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.23534375,"end":179.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.78346875,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.55471875,"end":185.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.45721875,"end":188.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.04284375,"end":194.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.39721875,"end":199.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.05471875,"end":199.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.35846875000001,"end":209.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.99409375000002,"end":224.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.59096875,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.53909375,"end":237.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.42846875,"end":258.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.58221875,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.20159375000003,"end":265.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.74909375000004,"end":266.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.57159375000003,"end":270.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.47409375,"end":269.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.16596875,"end":270.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.94221875,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.15284375000005,"end":275.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.05534375,"end":279.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.49784375,"end":284.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.02034375,"end":284.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.75846875,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.81284375,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.96846875,"end":292.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.17096875000004,"end":292.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.22159375,"end":292.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.32284375,"end":292.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.33971875000003,"end":292.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.40721875,"end":292.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":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跟委員說明這個王副市長很特別也跟我提到這個事情那他的想法也蠻務實的就是說你去弄一個醫院那但是呢這個醫院現在光是這個找人啦這個開病床這個問題啦那這個地方的主要任務就是向UCC啦就是向我們現在所提供的這個"},{"start":160.345,"end":176.473,"text":"及輕症或者是重症的初步處理然後就後送所以大概會朝這個方向來設計然後我們來跟衛生局來討論看看如果需要我們協助的部分我們會全力來協助"},{"start":177.493,"end":198.811,"text":"對 因為我們在講最主要除了它本身因為我們發現大園跟觀音完全都沒有急診便房然後它裡面除了一般它裡面居住的人口之外其實它現在人口一直在成長最主要每天到工業區上班的人數也是非常非常的多"},{"start":199.471,"end":224.001,"text":"那如果說成立這個觀音分院是不是有機會衛福部可以把他納入緊急醫療網的部分來加強他急診這個方面就是他的功能像我們現在做的UCC像我們UCC是做假日嘛然後再看他當時候因為有時候夜間不見得需要但是平常因為上班時間人比較多那萬一有什麼狀況的時候可以就近除的處理好 那這部分"},{"start":225.462,"end":244.542,"text":"弱勢力醫院觀音草大分院成立之後輸衛福部我希望說請他們送計畫跟衛福部討論納入緊急醫療網我們之前是對於為了避免妨礙到分級醫療政策的推動所以一般的醫院的所謂的院外門診部已經是禁止不設"},{"start":245.163,"end":270.286,"text":"但是公立醫院如果是基於他的公共任務需要的話呢那麼我們可以專案來審查所以我們會請這個衛生局提出這個整個規劃之後我們來協助討論好那就請部長幫忙希望我們這個市立醫院觀音草大分院成立之後希望衛福部把他納入這個方向我很支持好希望把他納入我們就有機會在那邊設急診病房是"},{"start":271.027,"end":284.748,"text":"好 那剛剛部長也知道也有討論到就是我們因為剛前面有提到我們觀音不是 我們部桃新屋分院綜合醫療大樓的擴建計畫那這部分"},{"start":286.019,"end":303.209,"text":"現在部長你掌握的情形到哪裡這個在做最後的修訂了啦應該也快了應該也快了對 據我們了解好像說我們查詢我們在今年1月15號查詢說國發會已經把他的審議意見函附給行政院了對對對"},{"start":304.15,"end":315.518,"text":"而且他們也說請行政院協助建樹合併表示他們也認同這個綜合醫療大樓部桃新屋分院擴建計畫應該要馬上進行所以這部分請部長再幫我們多編連因為這關係到我們大園觀音新屋還有陽梅整個周邊因為這"},{"start":325.186,"end":343.284,"text":"醫療資源真的匱乏那所以我們把計畫在部桃新屋分院這擴建計畫提升我們的醫療量能提升他的醫療資源好這個我們的責任好這部分也請我們部長多幫忙那還有這個之前我們有提到我們目前真的"},{"start":344.244,"end":365.084,"text":"我們這個醫事放射師還有護理師人力不足像今天大家討論我們春節急診還有我們三班戶病比的問題所以我們了解其實現在最擔心的就是我們護理師人力不足還有醫事放射師人力不足那這部分之前也跟部長來討論過那"},{"start":367.466,"end":377.3,"text":"部長後來你有了解我們各縣市醫事放射師人力的缺口的情形部長這部分有沒有掌握是不是很缺啊"},{"start":378.65,"end":400.719,"text":"我想醫事司昨天才跟醫事放射師團體大家有做過一些討論了解他們所面臨到的職業困境健保也在協助陳署長也親自跟他們談過所以我們未來會有一些新的改善方案"},{"start":401.219,"end":428.377,"text":"對 據我們了解其實北部你看連續兩年我們查了一下連續兩年這放射師招募都不足那中部我看很多教學醫院居然高達大概有五成的缺口所以這個直接其實影響到我們民眾的醫療的權益你像他們排這個CT電腦斷層還有MRI 實證照影常常都要"},{"start":429.37,"end":442.998,"text":"兩三個月甚至要到半年所以這我覺得這個人力的缺口已經嚴重影響到我們民眾醫療治療的權益那然後我們也了解看我們針對台灣這幾年來應屆畢業生"},{"start":448.001,"end":464.393,"text":"這個醫事放射師尤其我們查了一下像中山醫學大學他應屆畢業生我們看到這幾年我看這幾年他大概高達500人次都跑到新加坡去不知道部長針對這部分的了解有掌握到這個狀況嗎為什麼會有這樣的情形"},{"start":471.436,"end":495.962,"text":"我補充這段是昨天在跟相關同仁在做一個瞭解的時候他們其實是表示是我們台灣訓練出來的數字很好然後新加坡開出來的薪資比較高所以對新手上路剛畢業的人而言他是一個吸力那同時我們台灣這邊面臨到的困境就是我必須把我們自己的吸力跟推力減少推力增加吸引力所以昨天在討論的過程當中"},{"start":497.202,"end":516.074,"text":"就包括了是我們的那個醫療機構設置這邊是不是能夠從我們的平靜的條文做一些改善不是再從病床數這邊然後另外一個心智的保障的部分昨天也大概有初步的一個了解所以這邊的話我們部裡面就是爭據這些的一個結論我們會再做政策的調整以上"},{"start":516.414,"end":531.142,"text":"所以剛剛有提到所以這當然我們很欣慰說我們訓練出來的這些醫事人員很優秀可是也很可悲我們花了那麼多錢教育出來優秀的人才結果全部跑到國外去被他高薪"},{"start":531.722,"end":545.111,"text":"去挖角你看中山大學這幾年就500人次當然我們也了解因為他的薪水月薪大概12萬到15萬所以我們才會一直講說我們是不是在很多制度面應該要好好去檢討我們這些護理師人員還有"},{"start":549.573,"end":577.505,"text":"這個醫事放射師人員他說他們低薪高工時業務量大那當然我們最近很多的福利做得很好像乳癌年輕化乳癌年輕化他去做這個篩檢但是變成我們這些放射師他的工作量能就變得更大所以我們才會提出像我們健保總額跟公務預算我們現在發現加起來超過一兆"},{"start":578.365,"end":602.551,"text":"可是他們認為並沒有實質回饋在他們的身上所以我們才會提出像我們護理師的達標獎勵金還有夜班津貼還有我們醫事放射師的放射技術服務費是不是可以直接納入他們的薪資這部分才能實質回饋到他們的身上像護理師跟醫事"},{"start":603.351,"end":631.281,"text":"放射師情形都是一樣啊是不是應該實質回饋到他們薪資身上不然這麼多優秀的護理師放射師人員好不容易我們培養起來全部外流到國外去那部長這部分是不是應該要好好的來討論解決好謝謝委員的提醒我們會特別關注在醫院裡面的這一些醫事人員的薪資還有他的工作條件我們會來討論一些方案來協助提升"},{"start":631.981,"end":659.807,"text":"因為這個醫事放射師全聯會他們也有研議一些試辦計畫跟他放射服務費的增加與計算公式那在這邊我是不是可以等一下會後我給部長你們拿回去研議一下再跟他們討論一下因為我們真的很擔心這些人才的外流以及嚴重影響到我們台灣的醫療品質那像這個部分回去研議大概三個月內可以回覆嗎"},{"start":660.523,"end":689.992,"text":"三個月了好那還有像我之前有提出護理師的達標獎勵金跟月班津貼一樣納入護理人員的薪資那這部分上次有提過那還沒有回覆我們會來這個調查一下清查一下盤點一下這個執行的情形因為那些本來就是要規定要給護理人員的那一個月內可以回覆處理情形嗎那個一個月我們查一下"},{"start":690.532,"end":700.425,"text":"好那這部分就拜託部長為了台灣的醫療品質和民眾的權益那拜託部長那這個資料就下給部長好謝謝謝謝圖權級委員發言那本席宣告"}]}},{"id":"17242","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17242","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dd600d02e1221ac874d5c837147ce0a12e692bdb9a1e4797721eb142013e5c26e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「面對全球經貿變局挑戰，如何協輔僑臺商穩健發展布局全球之具體策略及措施」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2026-01-29","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2026-01-29T08:36:18+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:50:00+08:00","duration":8022,"影片長度":"02:13:42","委員發言時間":"08:36:18 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AI產業化"},{"start":2078.3,"end":2094.216,"text":"以台湾在半导体还有IC等产业的优势可以跟台商合作扮演关键角色带动物联网绿能以及循环经济等应用新商机可以扩大台湾的产业以及技术的输出"},{"start":2097.54,"end":2111.472,"text":"那為了因應這三大挑戰呢 以下將僑委會協輔僑台商穩健佈局全球策略的措施簡單的說明如下第一個我們的做法是強化僑台商組織網絡的聯繫協助商會擴大組織動能"},{"start":2117.635,"end":2143.933,"text":"中华民国的侨台商在全世界遍布六大洲目前有79个国家有176个商会会员超过4万家厂商这是一个非常庞大而且非常可贵的平台侨委会透过多元交流的平台强化侨台商的联系服务同时也要支持商会推展会务以及经贸"},{"start":2144.733,"end":2166.679,"text":"每年我們都辦理了幹部培訓接待商會回國訪問深化海內外的互動交流促進商會的網絡協助廠商開拓海外佈局例如在去年的時候我們協助了台灣的商會舉辦供應鏈論壇分別在北美歐洲還有亞洲都有舉辦環球商務論壇歐洲經貿論壇等等"},{"start":2171.3,"end":2199.533,"text":"来增进台湾跟亚洲美洲欧洲等地区更多产业跨境交流合作的机会那第二点呢串联侨台商跟台湾产官学研优势共荣发展侨委会的工作目标除了强化侨台商在全世界的平台组织之外另外也要加强海外的侨台商跟国内的产官学研单位的连结共创共荣的优势"},{"start":2200.593,"end":2226.478,"text":"我們扮演的是海內外的整合平台希望能夠連結海內外的資源協助橋台商事業發展同時還希望能夠匯聚僑力回台灣來投資合作截至目前已經跟國內的14所研發機構以及39所大學院校共同推出橋台商服務方案並且展開交流合作"},{"start":2227.438,"end":2246.336,"text":"例如我们协助洛杉矶台美商会开普顿台湾商会跟塑胶中心签署MOU泰国的台商总会跟台湾相关工协会台科大等单位签署MOU以及越南的台商总会跟工总与访托会签署MOU等"},{"start":2247.057,"end":2261.85,"text":"促進更多的海內外產業的交流合作那我們今年也有新的目標也會簽署更多的MOU還有透過各項的活動來因應這個海外橋台商的需求促進這個產業海內外的交流"},{"start":2263.147,"end":2267.712,"text":"第三點 促進橋台商與台灣產業的商機合作掌握海外的拓展契機橋委會每年都會辦理產業的邀訪培訓還有安排專業的經貿課程 拜會 參訪跟商機媒合等等"},{"start":2282.327,"end":2300.21,"text":"那這幾年來我們聚焦六大核心戰略五大信賴產業等政策我們這個回國參訪跟經貿課程的主題都是邀請橋台商回國研習然後參觀國內目前受到全球矚目的國內大型產業"},{"start":2302.203,"end":2307.305,"text":"這個部分非常受到橋台商跟國內業者的肯定今年民國115年 橋委會會陸續規劃辦理科技創新 機器人 智慧農業 安控 生技 長照等主題活動"},{"start":2318.57,"end":2330.295,"text":"我相信這些主題都是透過我們的問卷調查是目前我們海外的橋台商最感興趣而且未來希望能夠發展的投資項目所以我們針對橋台商的需求來訂定主題邀請他們回國來參與經貿的課程跟國內的產業跟學研機構來做連結擴大產業的連結跟影響力"},{"start":2344.363,"end":2362.233,"text":"第四點輔導橋台商綠色跟數位雙軸轉型提升競爭力那麼為了結合橋台商因應全球淨零跟AI的趨勢所以橋委會持續的結合台灣技術跟產業資源輔導橋台商雙軸轉型那我們在橋委會的官網有設置ESG的資源資訊也在國內開辦了很多期的ESG還有AI的主題培訓課程"},{"start":2373.961,"end":2387.063,"text":"协助我们海外的侨台商尤其是东南亚的侨台商进行温室气体盘查以及我们也领选了学者专家赴海外办理ESG还有AI主题的经贸讲座"},{"start":2388.177,"end":2407.524,"text":"在民國114年在海外總共辦理了10場次超過1000人參與頗受好評那今年呢我們會將持續推動另外也鼓勵各國的商會在各自的僑居國辦理教育訓練跟宣導推廣來提升企業的永續競爭力"},{"start":2410.54,"end":2433.043,"text":"第五点具体策略呢我们会墙外海外信保基金的服务来拓展乔台商事业版图那因应最新的台美这个关税的谈判结果因应美国对等关税乔委会会督导基金稳健运营还有扩大保证的能量除了积极的向银行募捐编列预算挹注基金"},{"start":2434.504,"end":2449.657,"text":"之外呢我们也协助基金将这个同一经济利害关系人的受信金额提高到300万美元同时呢最近开办了美国对等关税专案提供最高30万美元的贷款保证"},{"start":2451.463,"end":2477.425,"text":"由橋委會還可以補貼最長三年的手續費以及最長半年的部分利息因應各地的緊急的一些天災或是急難的需要也開辦了太南水災還有越南水災的專案保證這些措施都是為了要提高我們橋台山橋台商的韌性幫助受災的橋台商在當地重建事業"},{"start":2479.178,"end":2487.492,"text":"第六点我们的具体措施还有善用海外侨物的资源支援新兴地区的台湾投资厂商"},{"start":2488.624,"end":2514.621,"text":"随着台台湾的厂商跟这个连结的厂商转向新兴地区投资像台积电到美国去投资那日本跟德国也都有设厂所以我们的新侨民往海外移居的人数目前在增加当中那未来呢也会衍生出子女的教育社群的交流等等的需求"},{"start":2515.461,"end":2534.547,"text":"那橋委會呢陸續協助在當地成立商會、橋團、橋社而且也積極的結合當地跟鄰近的橋教中心、橋校、橋屋榮譽職等等資源希望能夠幫助新移民還有新進的台商融入當地的生活"},{"start":2535.447,"end":2548.426,"text":"另外 僑委會的政府首長跟駐外人員也會定期的來訪視運用多元的管道 加強聯繫服務深化新移民以及僑社連結 凝聚僑界向心力"},{"start":2551.018,"end":2572.021,"text":"海外的橋台商其實動能豐沛而且組織蓬勃發展橋委會未來會持續的精進橋務的服務工作結合國家戰略串聯海內外資源引導全球的橋台商跟台灣各領域合作讓橋台商協助台灣在世界舞台發光發熱"},{"start":2573.362,"end":2590.255,"text":"同時台灣提供產學研技術的優勢協助橋台商轉型升級共創立足台灣佈局全球行銷全世界的國家經濟佈局那以上是橋委會今天的專案報告謝謝聆聽敬請指教謝謝現在補充介紹羅美玲委員"},{"start":2604.98,"end":2630.492,"text":"接著請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有那我們議事錄確定我們現在開始詢答本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":2639.278,"end":2640.645,"text":"謝謝主席有請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":2650.852,"end":2662.418,"text":"副委員長早安今天是預算會期的最後一個委員會可是所有的預算都沒有審議包含了我們僑委會115年的預算所以我想請教副委員長剛剛您在報告的時候有提到僑委會為了因應美國對等關稅的衝擊所以在114年9月開辦了美國對等關稅保證專案"},{"start":2677.505,"end":2694.135,"text":"針對據書美時機且受到影響導致營業額減少10%的橋台上提供最高30%美元的貸款保證保證陳述是九成最長是六年還有就是由橋委會補貼最長三年保證手續費跟最長"},{"start":2695.276,"end":2715.989,"text":"半年部分的這個利息另外我還有看到你們有提到就是說為了因泰國南部跟越南中南部因為好雨淹水所以造成了橋台上的有受到一些嚴重的一些衝擊所以呢我們也有提供這個災害重建的這個專案保證那我想請教如果是說這個預算沒過的話針對這個"},{"start":2719.771,"end":2724.312,"text":"橋台商的這個貸款的這些保證有沒有受到這個影響請問副委員長謝謝謝謝委員的關心的確在橋台商的部分海外信保基金的專案一向都是這個橋台商非常關心的重點那尤其是台商在海外拓展的時候難免都會有資金的需求那有的時候呢需要這個"},{"start":2745.297,"end":2747.799,"text":"母國就是台灣這邊可以給他一些信用保證讓他在這個僑居國做生意的這個開拓這個初期的腳步能夠踏得更穩健那僑委會目前因為海外信保基金他本身的這個規模就不是很大那因應長期多年以來海外的僑台商不斷的反映所以我們在115年度的總預算其實有編列"},{"start":2770.692,"end":2777.076,"text":"要增加我們的這個基金的規模那才能夠因應未來尤其是這個美國關稅的專案可能會有的增加的這個業務量那跟委員報告到目前為止因為這個總預算沒有通過的關係所以我們新的這個這個增資的這個水位當然是沒有辦法能夠"},{"start":2793.786,"end":2796.768,"text":"現在沒有辦法補齊到目前為止從去年9月底開辦的美國對等關稅專案到1月23號為止到目前為止有6件目前有6件目前累計的受信金額是166萬美元"},{"start":2813.999,"end":2816.22,"text":"116萬166萬美元那累計的保證金額到149萬美元目前的規模還能夠因應目前能夠還能夠因應後續還有沒有但是因為這是我們去年度就是114年我們的這個"},{"start":2837.545,"end":2842.79,"text":"業務裡面獲得銀行捐款是有新台幣7000多萬的入帳所以我們目前還能夠因應可是這個對補的就是我們這個預算行政院預算要補齊的部分這部分就還沒有進來所以短期之內是如此但是如果說預算沒有通過的話"},{"start":2856.964,"end":2867.632,"text":"未來這個基金就很難再進一步的擴大提供融資保證服務那對於橋台商的全球的事業布局一定是會有影響的那對於我們以後橋台商的這個服務的量能我們也會受限都會有影響"},{"start":2872.575,"end":2884.526,"text":"因為我有看到我們在115年度總預算我們有編列了一筆這個捐助海外信用保證基金配合新南向政策增資計畫這個部分有1億500萬元這算是新興的部分如果這個預算沒有過的話就沒有了就算說後面如果說我們真的這個預算規模"},{"start":2896.357,"end":2920.265,"text":"不足的時候其實你就沒有辦法後續就沒有辦法進行所以其實對這個橋台商的影響其實是非常大的所以說這個在野黨卡一算其實也就卡到了我們海外橋台商的權益委員們多多幫忙因為其實海外的橋台商這樣的反應已經持續很多年了那我們的這個資金的增資的計劃其實也不是只有一年我們的金額其實"},{"start":2921.065,"end":2941.583,"text":"都不大那我们要分很多年就是侨委会的预算其实也蛮辛苦的分很多年的时间逐步的来扩增那也拜托各位委员大院的委员们都能够支持因为其实很多海外的侨台商侨民还有相关的这个就是关注这个议题的人大家其实都非常非常的关心这个进展"},{"start":2942.464,"end":2969.53,"text":"OK 除了這個呢我們這些專案受到影響之外再來我有看到我們僑委會115年的這個預算如果看工作計畫來講的話其實我們所有的這個預算工作計畫的這個預算是全面在增加的都比114年度增加了不少尤其是僑民僑團聯繫接待計僑教中心服務原先的2億多增加到3億4千多"},{"start":2969.87,"end":2990.224,"text":"那還有喬生回國升學季喬青培訓研習本來是8億多增加到11億9千多我想請問一下這兩個計畫說實在它增加的幅度是比較高的那對這兩個計畫我想請教一下我們原先想要增加的內容是什麼如果是說這個預算沒過的話影響到的是什麼請問副委員長"},{"start":2994.379,"end":3001.788,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這個是工作計畫的項目的部分那增加最大的類別其實在僑民僑團的聯繫接待跟僑教中心的服務以及這個僑生回國升學僑親培訓對那跟委員報告在僑生的部分其實我們主要是要因應這個"},{"start":3013.76,"end":3020.206,"text":"國家的外來人才的留用跟培育的計畫所以我們會擴大的引入僑生然後希望僑生在台灣就學之後還能夠穩定下來就業那充實台灣的人力的需求那所以這個部分我們增加了很多這個僑生的這個人數的員額那主要會用在僑生的學費"},{"start":3037.419,"end":3048.062,"text":"以及他們的這個升幅補助的部分所以這個部分如果資金沒有到位預算沒有到位的話也可能馬上會受到影響因為僑生的學費也照很多僑生都是經濟有困難的他們相當仰賴這個學費的補助所以學費補助如果沒有到位的話馬上就會受影響那在這個僑民僑團的聯繫的這個部分主要是今年會開始第二期的我們的"},{"start":3063.067,"end":3089.399,"text":"华语文的深耕教育的计划那这个计划呢其实会配合我们海外的华语文的教学以及TCML在全球的布点设置那在这个侨团跟侨教中心的部分也会提供一些空间的升级所以看起来这个原因比较多但其实我们的侨民跟侨团的数量一直都在增加当中所以我们服务的对象一直都在增加人数一直都在增加相对应的我们的预算需求也会上升"},{"start":3090.82,"end":3098.625,"text":"所以說其實這兩個都是本期長期以來一直很關心的一個就是說華語文中心的這個設立像過去的話我也請教了這個橋委會很多次我們覺得說這個應該是要擴大來做辦理所以看起來橋委會是有這個計畫可是如果這個預算卡關其實有很多其實是沒有辦法來擴大來做辦理的"},{"start":3110.973,"end":3113.976,"text":"那另外還有這個攬財計畫喬軒回國升學這個部分那當然這部分我也跟過去跟這個徐嘉欣委員長討論了非常非常的多那我們也看到就是說其實我們是有心要來做就是希望說就是我們的喬軒能夠回國來升學那再來來補足我們人才的這個不足"},{"start":3131.61,"end":3149.959,"text":"可是如果說這個計劃因為預算沒有審看起來這整個計劃新增的計劃都會卡關所以在這裡再次的呼籲在野黨真的是真的這個會期都已經要結束了我們竟然一毛錢都沒有審真的是阻礙了國家整個的發展好 以上謝謝接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":3170.278,"end":3182.693,"text":"好 謝謝召委主席 我們有請副委員長副委員長你先喝口水吧副委員長早早安 委員早安"},{"start":3184.838,"end":3199.283,"text":"好 副委員長 針對今天我們專報的一個主題我們面對全球這個經貿變局的一個挑戰那海外橋界是台灣與國際社會重要的一個橋樑那橋委會在今天的這個報告當中也特別花了"},{"start":3201.104,"end":3227.766,"text":"這個部分的篇幅提到有關全球地緣政治風險的一個升高還有供應鏈加速重組產業結構調整以及美國川普政府推出的這個關稅和製造業回流等政策我想對台灣來說未來跟美國之間各項領域的一個合作特別關鍵尤其在關稅談判的結果已經明朗之後不管是在經貿上的一個佈局策略"},{"start":3228.615,"end":3257.61,"text":"要加大投資或是在產業上要共同打造飛虹供應鏈強化我們自主生產的一個能力更進一步提升台美之間的一個戰略夥伴關係可以預期台美之間的這個連結會更加的緊密也會是接下來橋務工作的一個重點那我們看到您日前代表這個國家這個橋委會第一次出訪美國這個洛杉磯也參與了多場的橋界的活動"},{"start":3259.076,"end":3279.179,"text":"我想先請教副委員長的部分是在這次出訪當中您第一線接觸到的僑胞和僑商對於台美之間要進一步深化合作有什麼樣的期待或擔憂或是有提出什麼樣的對於我們僑委會的需求 有嗎"},{"start":3279.667,"end":3281.989,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員關心委員對我的行程也很關注我大概在上週才從洛杉磯回來那這一次到洛杉磯去出訪主要是參加洛杉磯台商的商會交接的活動那比較特別的是呢洛杉磯的商會是這個全美國大概是台商人數規模最多也是我們在那裡台橋人數最多的一個點那洛杉磯有非常多的我們僑務委員的僑務的榮譽值"},{"start":3307.188,"end":3311.15,"text":"以及僑胞僑民都在那裡那包括鄰近的現在這個最紅的台積電投資的Arizona鳳凰城也在洛杉磯的這個間狹的範圍之內所以洛杉磯的住辦還有洛杉磯的當地的文教中心可以說是一個我們海外僑務工作的重點那這一次的商會的這個交接當中呢還有很多北美的台商商會的會長都同時來參加這場盛會所以呢我在那裡一次有見到了很多"},{"start":3336.544,"end":3338.325,"text":"在美國的橋台商界的代表們正好在我飛機起飛的前一天我們台美關稅的結果公布了所以等於是飛機落地的時候當地的橋台商都已經得知這個訊息"},{"start":3351.934,"end":3355.298,"text":"他們也都很期待來自台灣的第一手消息跟台灣目前的反應是什麼那當地的橋台商其實對這個問題掌握度因為他們畢竟是在美國第一線同時也鄰近這個半導體現在要開發的這個重鎮就是Arizona的鳳凰城"},{"start":3369.475,"end":3378.021,"text":"所以他們其實是非常敏銳的而且是很正面樂觀以對那同時呢我覺得他們也已經在心態上都已經做好了相對的準備甚至對於未來可能台灣這邊會有的投資項目或者是長期的佈局計劃他們其實都非常非常的關切"},{"start":3388.368,"end":3393.43,"text":"那也要跟委員報告的是說在台美關稅協定的結果出來之後其實在這個美國的橋台商是非常樂見台美的經貿還有在半導體高科技界的交流能夠繼續的深化協助他們拓展市場因為這整個供應鏈的延伸跟擴展未來除了是台灣國力的延伸之外連在美國當地的橋台商他們都有機會可以受惠"},{"start":3415.78,"end":3419.262,"text":"所以我們在這個當地的布局當時也聽到了我在美國的時候就聽到外交部也公布這個消息說可能未來在亞利桑那今年有計劃要設立新的辦公室那我想在這個部分呢我們都很積極政府的腳步一定會隨著這個我們國人的需要就是我們產業界的需要那看有什麼可以協助的部分"},{"start":3439.657,"end":3448.405,"text":"關於他們的未來如果說過去工作在生活上子女的教育上或者是在這個一些資訊的連結上應該會有很大的需求那在產業的串聯的部分呢我想各部會還有當地的橋台商們他們都願意提供很大的協助那這當中其實機會是非常多的那到底要怎麼樣佈局怎麼樣來去發揮"},{"start":3463.757,"end":3480.187,"text":"其實是看各個企業他們自己有自己的這個規劃那政府的角度呢就是盡最大的力量然後先傾聽然後告訴他們最新最及時也是最正確的政府的政策方向那希望能夠團結橋台商們共同的來往這個深化經貿發展共融然後共這個共好的這個境界一起來努力"},{"start":3490.519,"end":3519.138,"text":"聽起來這個我們目前已經做好許多的準備那這也是我們期待的然後那也希望說我們剛剛副委員長所說的這個內容正向的部分我們應該是積極的來做謝謝謝謝拜託委員多支持那今天在這個報告當中也特別提到隨著這個供應鏈的重組那台廠跟台商的部分轉向新興地區投資佈局的趨勢例如我們台灣的這個台積電赴美國日本德國等地設廠"},{"start":3520.419,"end":3541.191,"text":"他們的員工和眷屬則會形成所謂的這個新僑民而這些高科技這個人才所吸加待卷出國打拼可能會衍生子女教育和生活適應的相關需求那政府也要在可行的這個範圍內盡可能來協助提供相對應的這個部分那譬如我們看到外交部"},{"start":3541.847,"end":3557.335,"text":"正在和美國交涉陳儒剛剛副委員長講有可能是要在鳳凰城設置這個辦事處來增加人力投入並且在正式設處之前會先在當地設點派專人提供一站式的服務"},{"start":3558.275,"end":3585.809,"text":"配合產業的這個策略來提供業者相應的服務這部分也需要我們僑委會積極的來投入協助我想請問副委員長在報告當中我們強調要善用海外的僑務資源支援新興地區的台灣投資的廠商僑委會在這部分是否會有具體的一個規劃能夠擴大協助這些科技新僑民的相關需求"},{"start":3586.636,"end":3590.258,"text":"報告委員我們有的橋委會其實資源跟預算都很有限但是我們在這個最大的可能範圍之內我們還是努力的去這個因應僑胞們的需求那跟委員報告的是在這個鳳凰城Arizona那裡外派的是這個台籍員工子女大部分都是高科技業的"},{"start":3604.927,"end":3608.909,"text":"所以他們的特色就是年輕然後高學歷然後同時他們對科技這個產品跟科技工具的應用也非常的純熟所以因應這樣子的新的趨勢僑委會在當地其實已經提前佈局了其實我們在目前已經成立了鳳凰城台灣半導體供應商協會這個是關於僑台商的部分已經有成立了"},{"start":3627.298,"end":3653.76,"text":"然后我们其实在桥校的部分也已经协助当地成立桥校了在凤凰城的部分现在有凤凰城中华中文学校跟凤凰城的华人基督教会中文学校已经有两所备查的桥校这两个学校其实都是开设正体的华文课程也就是台湾的繁体课程都是符合我们的台桥商子女的需要桥委会"},{"start":3654.801,"end":3669.612,"text":"本會自己編轉的中文的正體字的教材在過去兩年就是112年到114年已經正兩校1510冊教材那在德國的薩克森德勒斯登這個部分其實我們也成立了一所"},{"start":3670.192,"end":3693.762,"text":"华语学校是登记的桥校那在日本的九州熊本其实也成立了一所台湾语文教室那已经在像这个桥委会被查也就是说其实在这个子女的教育还有未来TCML是针对当地的外国人学中文而且是学台湾的正体中文的部分我们也陆续在推动这一次我到洛杉矶去"},{"start":3694.902,"end":3701.767,"text":"當地去其實他們都很有興趣那也很努力的想要在籌組當中那我想TCML的腳步也會跟隨著這個橋校之後就陸陸續續的來設立那商會的組織其實透過洛杉磯商會他原本就有規模再繼續來串聯我們就是希望能夠結合當地原本的橋台商還有社團的規模來輔導而且協助我們這些新橋民們那同時把他們納入我們整個橋委會海外的橋台商以及橋民的平台"},{"start":3724.842,"end":3732.127,"text":"的一部分那未來我們的資訊連結暢通那平常的交流密切之後能夠提供更多的服務也能夠更能夠傾聽他們的需求"},{"start":3734.414,"end":3761.208,"text":"好 謝謝副委員長非常詳細的說明那我們對這個僑商僑民的資源不單單只是政策而已而是要看到實際的這個資源跟服務那也請我們僑委會務必要與外交部還有我們經濟部等相關部會做好這個橫向的這個聯繫把我們傳統僑社的資源跟新興科技移民的需求對接起來讓我們在外打拚的這些台灣人形成更大的"},{"start":3761.688,"end":3776.002,"text":"更大更強的這個力量我想這也是我們政府面對全球這個變局應該要有的一個積極作為好 謝謝副委員長 以上謝謝謝謝陳菊委員的發言 謝謝我們下面請馬文君委員質詢委員先喝口水"},{"start":3792.662,"end":3800.547,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請副委員長以及我們衛生福利部常務次長謝謝"},{"start":3809.919,"end":3839.239,"text":"執行長還有副主委因為就我們今天當前國際政經的環境原本在經歷冠狀病毒疫情結束以後我們經過重新啟動以後希望可以迅速的復甦可是在俄羅斯2022年2月起入侵烏克蘭以後除了引發全世界的糧食能源供應鏈的危機以外中東地區之前的以哈衝突現在又有美伊"},{"start":3840.279,"end":3856.727,"text":"之間的衝突近期緊張局勢也不斷的攀升那東南亞地區從去年也發生太簡邊境的衝突就這些相關的衝突以外那在美國跟大陸兩大經濟體持續的對抗底下南海跟台海局勢也一直沒有有緩和的趨勢所以這也影響到台灣本身經貿發展跟佈局也使得在東南亞"},{"start":3869.353,"end":3884.765,"text":"布局的這些台商也受到很大的影響那就這個部分像我們也看到美國總統他在第二任以後採取的美國優先的政策對各國關稅站的這些相關措施對我們也首當其衝"},{"start":3887.947,"end":3894.069,"text":"那造成全球供應鏈加速的重整也使台商的經營環境在住在國可能有一些相關的經貿衝擊也處於不利的局勢老實說我們的橋台商真的是非常的厲害因為其實他們在政府給予的助力不多的情況之下他們可以在全世界各地去發展自己的實力然後去面對最大的困局然後也成功的在每一個的國家"},{"start":3917.755,"end":3925.263,"text":"都可以有自己的一席之地這是真的非常非常的不容易所以就我們國家可以提供的協助我們還是希望在他們需求的部分我們可以提供更好的"},{"start":3932.91,"end":3936.093,"text":"相關的比如說像我們國內可以提供的一些相關的福利措施或者應該給予的資源等等近期本席也率領我們相關的訪團前往越南我們也拜訪了鞋業 建築業還有機動車還有很多製造業的一些多家龍頭的企業然後也跟平壤還有同奈等地的台商做了一些座談"},{"start":3961.653,"end":3977.803,"text":"那在這些敗匯的過程當中我們也可以感受到這些橋台商他們在美國關稅政策也會面臨一些衝擊那就這個部分我相信橋委會應該也有一些相關的掌握目前有沒有什麼相關的因應作為"},{"start":3980.697,"end":3984.418,"text":"謝謝委員的關心非常認同委員剛剛所說的我們的橋台商其實在這個中華民國台灣在跟很多國際上沒有正式外交關係的情況之下還能夠靠著自己的力量然後片手之足很多我們橋台商的第一代都是自己努力然後打下一片天那同時呢在創立基業的之後"},{"start":4004.966,"end":4007.649,"text":"還能夠回饋台灣確實讓我們感到非常的敬佩尤其是台灣其實在越南的台商分布的非常多產業類別也非常多這幾年因為新南向政策的關係其實越南的部分我們台商普遍大致上來說發展的是不錯的"},{"start":4025.566,"end":4040.343,"text":"那台湾对东协的投资也一直陆续的在增加当中那我们也协辅了很多越南的台商协助他们做产业的升级跟转型包括导入了循环经济还有数位转型的这相关的我们撤要的可能不是"},{"start":4040.963,"end":4054.189,"text":"因為其實橋台商其實在越南他們如果可以立足而且發展得很好他們已經發展得很好我們現在要說因為如果倒掉的說撤回來的已經都撤回來的我們已經知道是現況可是我們現在是說面臨現有的國際局勢還有現在我們台海的局勢緊張的情況之下我們可以做到什麼簡要的一個方向就好"},{"start":4066.235,"end":4071.278,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們這個美國關稅的專案貸款的專案裡面到目前為止有六件來申請那這六件都是來自越南的台商那可見就是說我們這個專案雖然不敢說是全部但是有一些程度有幫助到可以服務到越南台商的需求"},{"start":4084.304,"end":4088.208,"text":"那當然台商的需求它可能是範圍很廣大那個問題都不一而足但是僑委會的立場是傾聽他們然後協助他們能夠對接到相關的部會因為他們的產業類別還有他們面臨的困境可能會非常的不一樣因為現在我們剛剛有提到就是說如果他們其實在有很多的企業剛剛我們也提到有很多其實已經立足很成熟很穩定在發展的"},{"start":4112.449,"end":4115.95,"text":"其實他們跟我們政府要借錢的機會並不是那麼大因為我們的像我們這些經費其實也不是很高所以他們最需要的就是在這個國際局勢當中剛剛有說要跟其他部會對接因為這個不是僑委會獨立可以做到的所以我們希望這個對接的角色可以做到更好"},{"start":4133.496,"end":4136.198,"text":"因為他不是只有花錢而已所以預算到底怎麼樣我們僑委會並不是很多所以他可以影響的主要的是我們在這個橋樑扮演的這個平台才是我們的重點那剛剛有提到可能在他們的需求上面因為今天衛福部也列席我們希望可以一起來解決相關的問題因為這一次我們去參訪的時候也剛好"},{"start":4160.371,"end":4163.793,"text":"有碰到這個問題就是在冠狀病毒防疫期間僑委會曾經配合衛福部在推動健康義友APP提供給海外我們的僑胞遠距免費健康的諮詢那疫情結束以後"},{"start":4177.122,"end":4180.126,"text":"僑胞希望可以持續的因為當時這樣子的一個措施應該是對他們有很大的一個注意所以他們也希望說在海外可以享用我們台灣的醫療資源可以讓台商跟家人在異地也可以安心就醫畢竟台灣在整個醫療"},{"start":4196.525,"end":4202.306,"text":"的水準上面其實是受到肯定的尤其是我們出門在外的這些我們的橋台商還有他相關的眷屬所以他們很希望能夠以插健保卡的方式來作業我想要請教我們長賜那就這個部分我們可以在海外遠距醫療的這個部分可以有什麼具體的做法嗎"},{"start":4225.264,"end":4239.616,"text":"目前其實跟越南台商這邊其實是用虛擬的健保卡他不需要在因為他的健保卡是在他身上嘛那現在只要用手機的虛擬健保卡他們可以用目前可以用所以就是透過虛擬健保卡的部分不過目前因為我們的規定是說在國人在海外那只能有那個急症才能夠回國之後來那個就是先玷污再核退"},{"start":4252.546,"end":4262.372,"text":"那現在就是說所以現在跟越南台南這部分是自費的也就是說看完之後那可能要由這個他的家人在這邊台北這邊幫他準備藥物再寄過去大概就這個程序那可以不可以有一個更簡便的方式因為你還是在我們這邊可能還要取藥各方面"},{"start":4274.259,"end":4277.601,"text":"因為他們除了健保卡的使用以外因為他可能你說的大概是有一些慢性疾病或者其他的可能重要的一個狀況發生的時候可是如果以現在我們的包括醫療器材其實包括遠距醫療其實他慢慢的在成熟的情況底下比如說像台中榮總他跟那個浦榮其實他們現在有一些醫療的設備"},{"start":4301.778,"end":4315.747,"text":"其實就可以做一個連結那就這個部分其實在看診的時候遠距醫療看診的時候其實他們可以提供更好的這樣的一個諮詢服務還有看診的這個作業那這個部分我們有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":4317.168,"end":4330.247,"text":"他應該是說他如果可以怎麼去提供他那些比如說穿戴裝置的資料這可以再評估但是就是說因為這也涉及到各國的他們醫療的規定可能也需要再研議"},{"start":4332.991,"end":4344.514,"text":"因為就這個部分他們也提到非常多因為有時候可能不小心生病可是又不是這麼嚴重的情況之下或者並不適合在搭飛機的情況之下可以怎麼樣提供他們更好的這些醫療的諮詢跟服務我想這個可能是他們迫切需要的因為如果說為了有時候不是真的非常嚴重可是他必須要搭飛機又回來"},{"start":4360.137,"end":4384.713,"text":"光是來回的機票或者它的騎乘等等其實也會有很大的可能那種損耗那就這個部分我們也期待有一種的方式就是說這個它可以在就跟當地的那個醫療機構合作也就是說由醫療機構跟我們這邊醫療機構遠距然後它就可以提供一些諮詢的一個"},{"start":4385.333,"end":4389.915,"text":"那這個應該也是一個很好的方法所以我們也希望說僑委會站在協助我們僑台商的立場然後衛福部也可以提供這樣子的一個平台來跟其他的駐在國因為我們一步一步慢慢來如果有一些國家可以跟我們做這樣的一個配合調整我們也來提供給僑商台商其實更好的這樣子的醫療服務那這一個部分也請"},{"start":4412.505,"end":4417.028,"text":"衛福部可以多琢磨然後配合我們僑委會看應該怎麼樣來做這樣的一個橋樑的一個工作好不好因為我們希望我們分佈在全球各地因為有一些你如果當地的醫療資源或者他的醫療品質不錯那當然大家比較不會擔心可是相對的他們的費用也非常高"},{"start":4435.1,"end":4453.148,"text":"可是你如果在一些醫療水準可能比較沒有那麼好的情況底下其實他們還是會是對他們一個很重要的資源的服務這個部分我們請衛福部跟僑委會可以同時來進行謝謝謝謝委員謝謝馬文君委員的質詢與建言各位請先回座喝口水"},{"start":4464.1,"end":4466.382,"text":"下面我們請沈博洋委員發言謝謝主席有請這個副委員長謝謝請副委員長"},{"start":4492.842,"end":4512.831,"text":"你好現在就是說因為有第一個當然是關稅這件事情剛剛前面有蠻多委員問過的現在又有所謂供應鏈的問題這個當然是我們國防部遇到的比較多並不是僑委會我們現在是希望能夠跟民主同盟有以美國為首的非紅供應鏈"},{"start":4514.312,"end":4533.802,"text":"這跟我們當年的晶片其實也非常類似雖然那個時候並不是跟紅色有什麼太大的關係但的確都是有一些技術上的移轉然後到台灣之後讓我們可以成長茁壯像我們現在比如說我們的無人機等等相關的一些產業其實有很多的零件都來自於中國"},{"start":4535.083,"end":4547.838,"text":"這個紅色供應鏈如果我們在裡面的話其實會是很大的問題比如說今天我們的敵人就是中國如果開戰的時候這些零件我們無法取得一個月可能要消耗非常多的無人機等等之類的這個都會形成問題"},{"start":4549.76,"end":4571.269,"text":"現在就是說呢因為之前當然第一個關稅剛剛前面比較多人問所以我從這邊來切入就是說因為供應鏈的這一個佈局其實非常的重要那現在其實很多廠商們都在準備當然有一個比較麻煩的地方是現在我們的這一個國防特別預算到現在是特別條例不要說特別預算了連特別條例都還沒有付尾"},{"start":4572.069,"end":4593.18,"text":"所以就會變成說我們接下來很多廠商他可能在期待說這整個飛鴻供應鏈到底要怎麼做但其實我們這個相關的這個條例還沒通過不過我覺得以經濟部的立場來講現在已經都已經開始準備在鼓勵廠商不管是雙用不管是要加入到這個產業然後增加工作機會這大概是我們現在政府的立場"},{"start":4593.891,"end":4609.805,"text":"那我們還是有另外一塊是跟橋尾會有關的就是我們的橋台商那橋台商現在這樣的一個供應鏈的這個分流佈局就我所知他們很多呢他們可能現在是在東南亞雖然他也有廠在台灣但有很多廠他是在東南亞"},{"start":4610.566,"end":4630.921,"text":"那我們就是之前有遇到就是有問到這一個前面的這一個信用保證基金那我們也有問說目前這一個有做這個保證的這個額數好像從去年到現在我看這一個是有六件六件可不可以稍微說明一下當然有六件那不是壞事的確是有但是總覺得六件好像還不夠多"},{"start":4632.369,"end":4647.388,"text":"那當然這跟我們自己現在國內的這一個立場尤其在立法院這邊是搖擺不定的可能會有一定的關係然後關稅也才剛定下來但是就是這方面的這一個這六件還有以及未來的展望是不是能夠更多是否可以跟國人報告一下"},{"start":4648.689,"end":4663.574,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員的關心我們海外信保基金從去年九月開辦就是美國對等關稅專案這個專案從去年九月底開始到一月二十三號為止是六件那這六件呢其實申請人都是來自越南都是越南的"},{"start":4664.554,"end":4677.078,"text":"都是越南的那產業類別包含紡織金屬製品製造機械製造以及成衣等等所以就是如同委員剛剛說的其實我們的台商遍佈全球但產業類別都不一樣那在東南亞的其實還是以比較偏傳統而且從小的這個產業類別為主那當然他們都很希望能夠升級所以我們在這個僑委會"},{"start":4689.743,"end":4700.952,"text":"輔導台商回來的研訓班當中我們其實都加入了從去年開始加入了航太加入了一些安控然後一些AI還有一些這個循環經濟數位轉型等等這樣的主題那其實都很受到這個東南亞東協國家這些台商們的歡迎"},{"start":4706.497,"end":4713.044,"text":"那他們也覺得符合他們的需求那在費用供應鏈的部分我想商機非常的多那台商的腳步跟頭腦其實都是動得很快的他們也都非常的靈敏但是政府的政策要怎麼樣明確的給他們僑委會作為一個橋樑的角色如果我們有明確的這個譬如說這個"},{"start":4726.657,"end":4730.119,"text":"預算過了或者是說我們這個政策已經法令整個下來了那當然整個帶動整個台商潮這個我們責無旁貸我們一定是在第一時間用我們的平台那把最正確的訊息傳達給所有感興趣的橋台商那大家這個共同來加入飛鴻供應鏈那我想很多橋台商其實心裡就標的了啦"},{"start":4749.634,"end":4764.643,"text":"他們大概知道說自己現在目前做的產業要升級可以去對應到飛鴻供應鏈的哪一塊哪一個部分甚至一些預先的準備工作都已經做好了那現在就等待說最後那個時機timing最適合的時候大家可以一起來啟動或許這樣力量會最大"},{"start":4765.464,"end":4782.743,"text":"因為我現在這樣聽起來就是說當然我們的信用保證基金很多是要協助可能跟一些關稅等等有關的所以你看剛剛講到的越南為主的它都是以傳產為主這一塊當然很重要因為這一次我們能夠談到這一個15%因為我們傳產最主要不是說到底過去幾%而是我們要跟別的國家做比較"},{"start":4783.463,"end":4810.944,"text":"我們有些可能是跟荷蘭競爭有些可能是跟東南亞的國家競爭有些可能是跟印度都有可能在這個競爭之下這個15%現在對我們來講是有一定的競爭力但是在這一個之前因為畢竟現在還有剩下有大概1000個清單還要簽所以這邊還是有很多不確定性所以我覺得保護船船這當然是重要的一件但另外一個就是剛剛講的就是我們輔導的部分當然剛剛有提到AI跟我們的科技有關但另外一塊可能就是我們的飛虹供應鏈"},{"start":4811.744,"end":4834.453,"text":"因為這也是我們現在政府我覺得蠻著重的一點就是今天因為有些它在它是不是屬於傳產但是它也沒有在做AI相關的這個時候其實在這一塊裡面很多是跟軍工有關的它可以雙用的它都能夠進入飛鴻供應鏈飛鴻供應鏈不是只有台灣飛鴻供應鏈其實在歐洲因為歐洲現在整個軍備也提高所以在提高的狀況之下飛鴻供應鏈對他們來說很重要"},{"start":4835.994,"end":4854.948,"text":"像我們之前在看到有一些是在立陶宛的台商捷克的台商其實有在往這個方向努力那我也知道委員長都有在跑這些地方所以呢就是希望這個能夠逐步推進我覺得這是重要的好 謝謝委員那另外一個就是我這個要這個問可能有點來不及因為時間的關係但我想先我請一下這一個我們的衛福部的次長謝謝請次長"},{"start":4859.108,"end":4872.319,"text":"主委好好 謝謝我前面本來是要先要問喬因為喬委會之前都有在推廣一些就是這一個全世界各地的這些比如說緊急救助這一個就是我們的這一個社會防衛任性因為我們一直以來說社會防衛任性是在講我們國內但是喬委會他還針對我們的僑民來做這整體的規劃我覺得這非常重要"},{"start":4879.065,"end":4889.133,"text":"因為他們也是會飛來飛去的然後他們在國外怎麼貢獻跟在國內怎麼貢獻這個重要那這個我剛剛來不及問但我裡面有一個小問題就是因為我最近在看日本的這一個這一個就是它的這一個液態的配方奶"},{"start":4894.918,"end":4909.713,"text":"它非常它比較昂貴然後大概就是我看它的這個價格可能要三倍那因為小孩子他要沖泡這個奶粉等等之類還需要熱水然後呢這一個程序也比較長那這一個液態的配方奶它非常的快速"},{"start":4910.854,"end":4937.81,"text":"它快速是一件事情那後來呢就是日本在這個2016年熊本地震的時候芬蘭捐了不少類似這種液態奶然後到2018年之後日本就覺得說這個在防災搞不好特別的重要因為防災像我們剛剛講的你可能就是身邊沒有那麼多設備但這個是嬰兒嬰幼兒可以吃的但我後來去了解一下我們台灣的這一個法規啊等等之類的就是你要得到這方面的販售的許可啊等等之類目前來講還算是這個是非常嚴格"},{"start":4940.132,"end":4953.066,"text":"當然我認為嚴格是對的因為我們什麼事情政府都應該要把關但是如果從防災的立場來講這個對台灣也有一定的重要性所以我覺得這是滿未來的事情但想問衛福部對於這件事情未來有沒有什麼想像跟規劃"},{"start":4954.668,"end":4972.821,"text":"對於省委員這邊問的那的確這看起來是對於我們防災應該是有一些需要啦所以我回去會請食藥署針對這個來研議另外一個是說如果緊急需要的話那在沒有通過之前是可以緊急進口這也是一個可以做的啦"},{"start":4974.042,"end":4978.627,"text":"但是為了要比較長遠的一個部分我們會請食藥署針對這個議題來研議看是不是也邀請這個廠商也要送件送件來我們才有辦法去做後續的一個讓他認證"},{"start":4988.637,"end":5005.982,"text":"對 因為我現在看到很多應該都是國外的一些廠商但是我總覺得這個對我們的未來應該算是蠻重要的所以未來的話如果可以的話我們再跟衛福部跟食藥署來討論一下這件事情這對我們的防災應該會有這個又都是在以海外為主或許僑委會也可以有一定的角色謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝接下來請王帝瑜委員上台質詢"},{"start":5026.274,"end":5034.005,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩我們信保基金的董事長請信保基金董事長主席我也好"},{"start":5037.521,"end":5055.392,"text":"待會有其他需要補充的話不管是副委員長或其他業管單位就歡迎自己上來第一個請教一個問題我們信保根據我調查我們在2025年大概信保出去我們擔保的信保額度是1億5147萬美金"},{"start":5058.834,"end":5086.865,"text":"2024年是1億4986萬美金當然壽星的額度比這還高大概是一半就是說有點像我買房子我要去買我要買一個2億5千151萬的房子然後呢這個你們來幫我擔保大概一半的錢當我這個擔保的保證人大概是這個概念那我要請教你我一般要比較難理解的是如果我們信保基金海外信保"},{"start":5087.745,"end":5090.426,"text":"去承擔1億5147萬美金或1億4986萬美金我用1億來講好了那你們要準備多少錢"},{"start":5101.158,"end":5108.002,"text":"因為目前我們所謂的代償率就是等於是假如是100塊的話我們代償率是1.4塊就是1.4%所以1.4%那我這樣講不知道對不對就是說我今天如果信保1億"},{"start":5117.867,"end":5135.299,"text":"我大概要準備的是1億的1.4%對 就140萬美金這個就是我的成本對 至少這個成本將來還可以去追啦我們把它當作呆帳不一定會追回來是那前面有人說你要幫人家擔保1億4那1億4跳掉了你要全部負擔沒錯 所以有一個真性嘛"},{"start":5136.539,"end":5162.177,"text":"連針嘛 是銀行又銀行股啊銀行股啊又不是隨便放款他一定會去看你的信用你的所得你的營業額甚至你有沒有不動產資產負債都會看完經過徵信完我決定我銀行要借你一億可是我覺得對你信用上我有所疑慮要你找個保證人這個保證人呢在海外就是海外信保基金你們來當保證人 是"},{"start":5162.597,"end":5180.643,"text":"在家庭通常配偶買房子連帶保證人就找另外一個配偶綁在一起所以政府擔任所謂信保的角色就是當我們中小企業如果在海外他要去拚經濟可是他拿不到銀行海外美國的銀行不借他錢"},{"start":5181.721,"end":5209.191,"text":"歐洲銀行不借他錢或者因為你誰擔保的身分差別利率會有所差別美國的話如果你是初次來這邊做生意大概是6%那一般信用比較好有往來的大概是2%以下這個是海外資金運作的所以在跟你確認這件事情就是我們長年以來這個又不是我們現在執政才有長年以來喬委會的海外信保基金為了幫助我們喬台商"},{"start":5210.091,"end":5222.265,"text":"我們在信保的額度每1億你們要準備的成本大概是1.4%左右我這樣全是沒有錯嘛這個就是成本嘛所以100塊要準備1.4塊100億要準備1.4億140萬美金要準備這個額度"},{"start":5231.855,"end":5251.517,"text":"所以從這來看我們最近跟美國談到的所謂的最惠國待遇或者是關稅談判我覺得它是一個專業問題政治的口水沒辦法去掩蓋真實如果這個談判的條件不好企業界會知道產業界會知道如果這個談判的條件不錯"},{"start":5252.978,"end":5281.339,"text":"產業界也會知道也許對政治人物的評價可以透過抹黑啊 造謠啊可以有一時的影響但是這是紮紮實實的經濟議題所以2500億所謂的對美投資那個是指私人部分包含台積電的1600億美金還有我們要購買我們的能源等等那個大概就消化掉了很多人把後面那2500億美金的信用單保直接把它加上去你們會這樣加嗎"},{"start":5284.355,"end":5303.228,"text":"應該不一定啦因為事實上本身這個企業他的投資的錢到底是自己的錢或者是跟銀行借來的錢其實是都有可能的用加法就不對嘛就好像你兒子去買一間房子一千萬叫你這個老爸來擔保一千萬難道你還要再另外拿一千萬放在那裡不是你是擔保他那一千萬不還的時候你的貸產嘛"},{"start":5304.704,"end":5333.992,"text":"那代償率1.4%我就要準備1000萬我就準備個這個14萬嘛就代償率的概念是這樣子所以2500億美金的擔保或信保其實我準備就是2500億乘上1.4%大概35億美金左右35億啦 何況像台積電那種公司哪需要你信保啊所以還會更小大概會低於25億美金因為許多會到美國投資的大型公司他本身的Credibility在"},{"start":5335.559,"end":5359.475,"text":"國際任何銀行都搶到借他錢根本不用你去信保他所以他真正幫助到的是比較少涉足海外投資的或者是首次去海外投資的或者是屬於中小型規模欠缺他的這個Credibility這樣的企業我們在幫助的是 輔助的是這樣的弱勢或中小或者他有能力只是缺乏過去的時機"},{"start":5360.896,"end":5376.415,"text":"就像我們的性保基金一樣 對不對所以第一個命題我剛才請教的就是透過我們政府長年就存在的對海外叫海外性保在國內的就是中小性保這個不是現在才有欸你們海外性保操作幾年了"},{"start":5377.589,"end":5396.302,"text":"37年多了我們在場大概沒有幾個比37年小啦我們都比他大但37年也算蠻長的時間所以37年來歷經多任的政府信保是一個我們的企業家我們的產業界去海外打拚的時候他的一個工具"},{"start":5397.422,"end":5420.824,"text":"從來沒有人說我信保 我們僑委會信保我們的信保金信保1億5千147萬美金哇 那你僑委會的預算大概一半就拿去花掉了 沒有人這樣算的所以我們該透過這樣子讓他理解信保的概念那個貸償率1.4%才是一個潛在的成本而且那還可以再追償的你只是擔任擔保 所以"},{"start":5422.366,"end":5438.187,"text":"2500億準備起來是35億美金如果扣掉大型企業那種自己就可以擔保自己的大概還要比35億美金更小現在任何人再把2500億信保那就不是不懂囉如果看到我們這一段不是不懂囉那就裝不懂"},{"start":5439.088,"end":5453.571,"text":"直接要亂帶風去破壞台灣好朋友談到這麼優惠那台灣的傳統產業不管在台中在彰化在任何地方因為這樣子韓國已經吃驚了韓國變25%15%不疊加跟25%要疊加差多少如果你原始稅率是21或27要疊加的意思就是變50多%跟15%風頂不疊加"},{"start":5465.93,"end":5470.968,"text":"台灣的中小企業的命脈在這裡那我現在要請教你的第二個問題我們也請副委員長上來"},{"start":5473.086,"end":5496.312,"text":"那個現在有產生一個情形台灣確實在對等關稅談判達到了15%另外還有2.5倍的投資可以豁免抵稅歸零還有232條款對九大產業的列入不管是汽車零組件我們的水五金工具機腳踏車零組件等等等等"},{"start":5497.95,"end":5511.546,"text":"那我現在要請教僑委會跟信保基金的是我們有一些僑台商他的工廠是在台美以外的第三國而像東南亞有的是19%有的21%有的還要疊加有的還有懲罰稀產地幫中國稀產地的懲罰性關稅20%"},{"start":5517.492,"end":5536.63,"text":"那我們的橋台商如果因為在越南在哪裡遇到這樣困難他轉去美國投資我請教橋友會這個投資額度有沒有列入台灣對美投資額度他從第三地比如說我們某某橋台商現在他的工廠設在非洲設在東南亞"},{"start":5537.37,"end":5551.948,"text":"而他現在決定因應這個關稅我在這邊生產把我的利潤吃掉了我現在某某橋台商把我們的資金要拿到美國加州投資德州投資這個有沒有列入我們中華民國對美投資的額度內"},{"start":5554.02,"end":5565.222,"text":"謝謝委員的關心 僑委會的工作主要是做僑台商的平台那您剛剛的問題可能專業的經濟部或者是我們的談判小組來回答比較適合我們一定是全力配合不是配合 你們要了解這一點僑台商如果你們服務夠好 僑台商第一個會找到你們請教一下 我現在在印尼這個工場我準備挪1億美金去投資美國"},{"start":5580.625,"end":5585.208,"text":"這個有沒有算我們國家對美投資因為這個題目會決定下一題但是僑委會的立場我們不是主事的機關我們還是要以其他的像經濟部或者是談判小組我要你們去了解"},{"start":5595.959,"end":5621.39,"text":"Q&A要答得出來啊你Q&A都答不出來你怎麼服務橋台商答完之後說請找經貿辦請找經濟部國貿局他有他的業管單位但橋台商我從第三國移到美國去投資的時候有沒有列入我們國家對美投資這個很重要這牽涉到我們一開始那2500億台積電已經投資1600億了第二個他如果從第三國到美國投資信保金金"},{"start":5622.53,"end":5641.808,"text":"可不可以列入我們服務的對象是可以嘛所以這兩題是相關的如果我們今天有一個在印尼的橋台商他從印尼到美國去投資我們國家納稅人的信保基金縱使只有1.7%的成本潛在成本我去擔保他去美國他可以取得比較低的競爭優勢"},{"start":5643.109,"end":5662.641,"text":"那他到底有沒有列入我們對美投資問清楚啊如果沒有你可以提醒我們談判辦說這個要列進去啊這一旦列進去我們的信保海外信保基金等於變成整體國家的作戰而且我們國家的那2500億美金的信保是不是要把你們這個納入裡面"},{"start":5664.98,"end":5673.877,"text":"include列在額度裡面而不是列在外面因為光列在額度我看你們2025年就吃下了一億五千萬美金啊不錯啊"},{"start":5675.026,"end":5701.579,"text":"這不錯啊 這個減輕我們的負擔啊縱使就1.7% 1.4%也是一個負擔啊那個信保董事長知道我的意思嗎就是說這一個額度有沒有列入我們對美投資額度有 不錯啊第二個 他現在已經算是我們信保服務的客戶那我信保這一個額度有沒有列入那第二段2500億的美金的信保的額度裡面如果有更好 我現在在做就可以扣掉"},{"start":5702.503,"end":5711.385,"text":"你這樣懂我意思嗎那你們現在如果沒有答案請盡速回答本委員會跟本席這樣好不好好 謝謝委員的戰略思維我們就配合趕快來去這個好 謝謝接下來請黃仁黃仁 黃仁委員不在請林楚英委員上台質詢"},{"start":5732.2,"end":5735.461,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請李副委員長請副委員長副委員好第一次登板國防外交委員會謝謝委員這個但是我問的問題其實不算是新的題目喔因為去年差不多這個時間點我也詢問過徐嘉欣徐委員長那就是一旦我們這個來到了新春的時節其實也就是"},{"start":5759.611,"end":5777.045,"text":"我們的僑委會跟中國的這個對外的統戰部門的一個主力戰場去年我曾經有詢問過就是在他們的所謂春節大外宣的過程當中會有一個春節暖心包的贈送那麼今年是不是又開始發送"},{"start":5778.306,"end":5789.745,"text":"那麼今年的內容我們有沒有收到其他在海外橋接朋友的訊息他們的這個所謂春節暖心春暖心包大概內容有哪些那麼這些內容有精進嗎"},{"start":5794.455,"end":5797.858,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員的關心那委員長期很關心我們海外的僑團在這個第一線遇到的中國統戰跟滲透的威脅那確實我們的統戰中國的統戰大外宣是無時無刻不在那也跟委員報告其實不只是農曆春節期間他們全年都會利用一些特殊的時刻來做這些統戰的滲透"},{"start":5816.651,"end":5837.145,"text":"所以我們在第一線的橋界其實對於這個全防衛的這個韌性的因應還有這個平常的認知作戰的一些這個相關的概念的準備都是非常非常重要的那也跟委員報告其實依照我們最近接受到的這個橋情其實在非洲還有我們的北美"},{"start":5837.745,"end":5852.735,"text":"以及北美的媒體其實中領館還有相關的中國的駐館都已經有一些干擾或者是一些威脅的動作就是希望我們的橋團在過年期間或是重大節日的時候他們都透過滲透騷擾或者是一些不理性的行為希望我們不要派我們的"},{"start":5865.723,"end":5868.286,"text":"住處的長官來出席活動那利用這樣子來打壓我們的士氣好因為就像您剛所說的在非洲北美相關的這些就是外館其實現在中國確實大外宣或者是滲透或者是施壓我想海外不論是我們的外交部的外館住館"},{"start":5886.806,"end":5892.95,"text":"又或者是包括僑委會在內其實都可以感受得到他們的這種所謂步步逼近的脅迫是越來越強而且他們不只是花錢用錢的方式去買人心甚至於他會買選票中國會介入選舉的過程當中其實這個例子已經非常多了包括本席也找出在2025年的報導就是2023年蔡英文總統過境紐約的時候當時"},{"start":5914.244,"end":5918.505,"text":"時任這個周參議員的曲怡文就因為出席了我們的橋宴隔年他就直接讓他的支持者全體轉向讓他落選就像你講的也會希望我們的橋宴變得冷冷清清喔那在這個部分我們接下來面對中國的步步逼近尤其是新春期間因為現在距離過年其實剩下幾個禮拜那麼在這邊我們橋委會跟外交部有做好一些因應的方式嗎"},{"start":5942.352,"end":5951.798,"text":"因為我稍微查了一下喔其實我們來到2026年啦雖然說現在總預算也還沒有審但是我先看一下就是你們在橋界辦多元活動有1725萬但是對比喔如果拆分下來到我們這麼多個外館其實說實話要拚錢我們拚不贏"},{"start":5961.425,"end":5981.068,"text":"那麼你剛剛提到的包括加強所謂的防衛韌性加強訊息的揭露但是除此之外我們有沒有想到更好的方式甚至於在邀請的過程中現在有沒有面臨什麼樣的困難除了剛剛你提到的非洲北美被施壓要求選邊站之外"},{"start":5982.372,"end":5985.616,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那跟委員補充報告一下這個有關於暖心包的僑情我們目前是還沒有聽到今年有這樣的消息但是這並不代表沒有因為暖心包可能是這個一個活動而已那我們覺得我們也要做這樣的準備"},{"start":6000.034,"end":6021.978,"text":"就是中國的滲透是剛剛提到無所不在的而且無時無刻都會有所以今年也要因應可能會有的一些新的動作或者是他們有一些新的伎倆新的把戲之類的那剛剛跟委員報告的就是說我們要加強的部分除了全社會防衛任性之外其實全社會防衛任性去年在這個圓山飯店的僑委會的辦理的時候我們把全世界的僑委員召回來"},{"start":6025.799,"end":6028.641,"text":"然後我們模擬這個全社會防衛任性用這個來做主題那我們來分組來讓所有的僑委員進行討論讓他們沙盤推演遇到一些認知作戰攻擊或滲透的時候應該採取什麼樣的因應那也加強所有的僑團的垂直跟橫向的聯繫那我覺得這部分是平常要做而且是刻不容緩的事情那因為這個事情"},{"start":6048.854,"end":6051.255,"text":"去年的僑務委員會做了之後很多僑委員都覺得認同覺得成果不錯所以這樣子的全社會防衛任性的座談跟這個小局書的推廣現在他們已經回到了僑居國那分別在美國的休斯頓然後我知道還有一些好像好幾個地方"},{"start":6065.399,"end":6070.143,"text":"都已經陸陸續續的開始在橋居地他們辦理全社會防衛任性的座談跟推廣那這個目的就是要加強我們所有的橋台商跟橋民們這樣子的防衛任性的概念也就是說平常我們要做好心理準備不管是心理的武裝還是知識上的武裝都非常的有必要那同時我們在今年也會再增加譬如說我們的海華基金會會在橋深"},{"start":6091.821,"end":6115.197,"text":"回國的時候辦理校際交流跟提升僑生的防衛意識工作坊在緊急救難協助的部分還有全社會防衛任性的部分都加強的來補充還有在海外商會的幹部培訓的部分我們也會規劃全社會防衛任性的相關演練也就是說全社會防衛任性是我們政策性的要去重點"},{"start":6116.178,"end":6142.556,"text":"推广的部分我们希望藉由这样子的一个讲座还有一个这个有系统的把讯息传播出去让所有的侨团侨商还有这个侨生侨教界都能够认知到中国认知作战的威胁那对于这个假讯息还有对于这个网络駭客还有一些这个AI的生物技术这些新新科技因为他们需要随时更新新的资讯现在新的伎俩实在是太多了那"},{"start":6143.156,"end":6147.361,"text":"先建立這樣子的心理武裝之後隨時有訊息的時候我們也透過這樣的網路把最新中國可能的統戰方式及時的告知他們讓海外的第一線的僑情的接收能夠更順暢他們有知道有這樣的意識之後就能夠有提防然後比較快的能夠來做因應"},{"start":6160.936,"end":6174.384,"text":"好 其實我就是希望全社會防衛任性它不是只是一個名詞而是我們能夠具體的有步驟然後包括連在海外的橋台商包括我們的橋屋委員 橋屋諮詢委員其實都能夠納入這個整合的系統當中"},{"start":6179.127,"end":6199.114,"text":"另外一個我要關心的當然就是剛剛王定宇委員特別提到就是我們現在能夠談一下這個台美的關稅15%的這個部分我相信對於很多我們的中小企業跟產業都非常的重要那麼對於台積電對外的投資的部分當然不是只有美國2024年的時候我特別帶了訪問團到德勒斯登去喔那麼"},{"start":6204.236,"end":6209.24,"text":"他們德國包括最近來訪的德國國會議員也都非常關注德勒斯登的這一個所謂擴廠的計畫那麼我要強調的是我們現在在德國我查了一下我們僑務委員有3人僑務諮詢委員19人僑務顧問14人僑務促進委員是26人總計有62個人"},{"start":6227.617,"end":6255.28,"text":"但是我們的僑務秘書目前就是只有在法蘭克福跟柏林對不對但是其實你看一下這個地圖就知道其實德國非常的大我記得我當時從柏林我們一路坐車過去大概要坐個半天那麼言下之意就是當我們德勒斯登在進行建廠之後會有非常多的工程師及他的家眷包括他的家人他的小孩會到這裡來所以我要提醒的是"},{"start":6256.421,"end":6275.933,"text":"現在如果以我們做的人力部署包括我們橋外協助所謂的支援的這樣的人力上面是不是需要做一些調整比如說你現在在柏林或者是在法蘭克福只有各一位橋屋秘書那一旦有事情發生的時候該怎麼樣做連結"},{"start":6278.254,"end":6281.356,"text":"包括我們在現場其實當時我們去訪問的時候有非常多已經在德國發展我們的橋台商朋友也都到德勒斯登了那麼我教育會有教育部協助醫療相關的今天像衛福部其實也有派代表來"},{"start":6294.826,"end":6309.735,"text":"這都沒有問題但是在服務橋台商的部分在這裡 橋委會有沒有一個新的更多更精進而且協助來配合德勒斯登因為我們當然知道日本熊本也有但是因為日本真的離台灣近發生什麼事情一個飛機票幾個小時就回來"},{"start":6311.736,"end":6327.251,"text":"那麼美國的話因為我們前進美國的橋台商多大家協助的方式可能會更緊密但是歐洲尤其是德國確實連橋台商都比較少那在這個部分我提醒橋委會是不是可以有更多的思考"},{"start":6328.588,"end":6333.934,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員對僑務這麼深入的了解跟關心那確實因為我們預算跟人力有限所以我們的僑務秘書其實不只是德勒斯登很多地方其實都在叫人數就是人不夠人力不夠那包括現在我們在亞利桑那其實也是沒有僑務秘書"},{"start":6345.385,"end":6357.437,"text":"那我們在日本熊本其實也沒有只有這個駐地的辦公室當然是外交不兼的所以其實只要這個行政院可以或者是大院願意給我們更多的預算我們很願意做事情那這個新的趨勢新的移民現在這個氣候移民潮正在形成當中僑委會會隨時配合這個台灣的往外移的僑民的需要來做這個人力的重新部署"},{"start":6369.949,"end":6378.131,"text":"那就像您所說的不論是熊本或者是亞利桑那或是德勒斯登因為現在就是我們有即將就是這個廠要營運之後工程師及家眷會進去那麼現在事實這個狀況已經發生了我也建議僑委會是不是會後可以給我們一份評估報告那包括其實現在人力有限也不太可能馬上就讓行政院打開人力或者是資源的部分怎麼樣跟其他的部會做橫向的整合"},{"start":6397.817,"end":6405.742,"text":"以及人力的配置上面是不是可以有一個進一步的相關的研究或了解交給本會跟本席好 謝謝接下來請鍾嘉斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":6425.945,"end":6447.209,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列系的政府機關首長官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們李副委員長還有我們衛福部的莊次長請副委員長 莊次長謝謝委員長副委員長好 次長好請問李副委員長來交會多久了"},{"start":6448.741,"end":6476.101,"text":"我去年9月1號也五個月了四個月那對於我們的僑務同仁都熟其實我跟你們的僑務同仁也很熟像我們的張處長浩君我大概十年前在越南就跟他見過面了是非常優秀的僑務工作人員我是覺得副委員長能夠到僑務務委員會來帶領這麼傑出的團隊應該都是彼此的福氣那我跟妳請教一下因為畢竟妳來那如果說對於僑務的部分還"},{"start":6477.462,"end":6484.991,"text":"需要進一步說明的可以請他們來幫忙如果您完全掌握了就直接說來請教一下請問副委員長華航為什麼要開執揮鳳凰城的航線那個台積電在鳳凰城在亞利桑那很好 簡單明瞭我們看一下"},{"start":6494.298,"end":6515.58,"text":"一旦台積電到那裡我們就看到了它目前的每週三班它鎖定的課員是包括半導體相關人員的設備商未來它要三月的時候它增到四班越來越多的工程人員會過去這成了一個空中走廊 我很好奇華航會不會太樂觀到底有多少人要去鳳凰城每週要去直飛委員長你看不看好這條航線 副委員長"},{"start":6517.512,"end":6524.578,"text":"事實上不只是華航新宇的航線也已經開了是的 所以不只華航有眼光新宇有眼光往下看其實台灣模式的產業它所聚集這麼多的台商你覺得它需要什麼樣的僑委會的服務呢"},{"start":6533.204,"end":6536.887,"text":"剛剛在委員還沒來之前其他委員有提到當我們的新僑民移居到美國或是亞利桑那新的地方之後需要的是一些子女的教育生活上的資訊社團的連結服務等等"},{"start":6550.58,"end":6578.278,"text":"所以你看嘛如果未來我們看到台積電它的派出人員估計到六千加券可能要一萬五有兩萬多人其他的上下游的供應鏈的廠商漢堂 帆軒 亞航也將近五千至於其他的我們就加加起來也不少這些的喬教需求可不可以舉一下例子喬委會目前在哪些國家設有我們的子弟學校或者說台灣學校你去過哪些越南的去過沒有胡志明"},{"start":6579.301,"end":6608.542,"text":"胡志明的我個人還沒有去過去過馬來西亞的馬來西亞的在哪裡台灣學校在吉隆坡在吉隆坡我也去了我也很開心的他們過去曾經在那裡辦國慶還升國旗我認為這很不簡單因為過去馬來西亞政府相當的傾向中國好 那沒有錯除了學校之外我們想一下看除了類似這樣的一個台灣學校之外住宿旅宿這個交通之外你認為我們的台商或台橋還會遇到什麼樣的需求"},{"start":6609.466,"end":6622.077,"text":"我覺得一落地之後可能譬如說找房子啊醫療啊或者是法律諮詢啊我不知道你有沒有聽過以前我在越南常常跑的時候台商只要一覺得身體有益第一件事情你就是衝醫院掛急診嗎應該不是他們是第一個去買機票"},{"start":6626.141,"end":6640.38,"text":"為什麼 因為回來台灣四個小時比較保險而且有我們龐大的健保傑出的醫療團隊包括我們裝飾廠待會就會說了嘛就買機票那你覺得未來到鳳凰城台上如果有這種情況他可以說身體不舒服趕快買機票回台灣來嗎"},{"start":6641.81,"end":6667.374,"text":"應該是有困難有困難 那怎麼辦呢我們來看一下今天我們衛務部提供了一個解方這是我在2022年的時候跟那時候的越南的台商總會長檢總會長還有前面好幾任的總會長他們在推動什麼推動所謂一個叫做通訊診療 診察醫療辦法來 我們請莊次長來看一看然後對不起 還沒往然後接著在2023年的1月10號我們還在"},{"start":6671.966,"end":6693.505,"text":"衛福部我就去質詢了後來在這個推動之下請問一下那個次長那時候你在疾管局嗎我覺得薛副部長那時候是9月28號您在在疾管署我們在那邊開一個會你有印象嗎我沒有在當場這個會議但是你了解這個通訊診治療辦法對 因為在"},{"start":6696.667,"end":6719.626,"text":"2024年7月1號就上路了是的而且那時候你們增加了五類過去有沒有包括在海外工作的國人以前沒有沒有後來把台商納進去了是所以後來我再到了2024年的3月15號我在衛生行為我也做了質詢結果你們5月20號就開始有記者會宣導7月1號正式上路這裡面有好多家醫療機構能統統參與市長你覺得這樣的一個診療辦法在疫情期間"},{"start":6725.611,"end":6744.076,"text":"本來就有後來擴大使用你覺得可以怎麼樣的服務更多的國人目前其實我們有在目前其實就是通訊診療那的確有它的必要尤其是在離島跟偏鄉的部分但是因為我們國內其實很多"},{"start":6745.396,"end":6772.879,"text":"我們健保其實醫療院所都在所以就可能就比較那我們喬台商呢喬包跟台商目前就是其實就在7月2號就台商其實就跟同中和那邊其實應該就開了一個記者會所以那個時候他其實自費因為限於健保法的規定就是說我們國人在外面如果有緊急的一個疾病那次可以回來退就是核退但是其他的部分可能就要自費我跟副委員長"},{"start":6773.379,"end":6781.737,"text":"我想說明一下這個有一個精神很重要因為原來的這些僑胞或台商他如果在國內就有原來的慢性病原來的疾病有就診"},{"start":6782.745,"end":6806.17,"text":"那他在原來的診療的關係上他可以透過這樣的通訊診療能夠在海外也可以得到什麼慢性命處方菌的繼續開立所以副委員長這樣了解所以第一個我們最先試辦的是越南然後再來就是馬來西亞聽說三月後要到菲律賓去請問委員長你會不會繼續往其他各個橋界去推動"},{"start":6809.663,"end":6831.553,"text":"謝謝委員的關心如果這個橋台商有需要聽到行程反應我們都很願意來推動好 那我們來幫你看一下其實這裡面包含的呢也次長看一下這裡面不是只有海外工作的國人它其實包括國內的這些因為除了三地離島偏鄉還有一些在矯正機關的受刑人因為他們"},{"start":6832.273,"end":6848.408,"text":"沒有行動自由過去都要借戶送衣 對不對借戶送衣 所以很麻煩我們往下看那現在你看一看這是衛福部你們過去在馬來西亞 越南都做了好 往下看來 請次長接下來請教次長 來再往下一頁"},{"start":6848.959,"end":6877.267,"text":"所以未來有沒有繼續往通訊機關矯正機關的通訊診療你們有沒有繼續在做報委員 目前其實是有的目前有針對精神科跟體護科是有透過這個通訊診療方式來做這個需要長期的追蹤的但是我們也知道一些心血管疾病一些慢性病現在高齡化很多矯正機關裡面的受刑人本身年事偏高經常像這種氣溫急劇變化就經常要緊急送醫"},{"start":6877.907,"end":6906.286,"text":"他如果能夠得到平常定期的追蹤診施是不是比較好對不過目前其實他們都有這些都有醫師在那邊那個是醫務所醫務所裡面那麼多分科而且看的不是你原來的醫師所以未來如果能夠把這個慣法推廣到矯正機關跟法務部合作你樂不樂見未來我們的全民健保這麼優秀的醫療體制可以讓這些在矯正機關裡面它可以延續在原來在外面得到的醫療機構的照顧跟服務"},{"start":6908.087,"end":6935.683,"text":"對 我們可以再跟那個法務部這邊再來針對這個部分那我再告訴你目前大概只有兩所監所啦再往下看所以最後我們結論結論說喬回這邊我想你們已經做得很好我們就持續的擴大推動尤其是未來像鳳凰城像北美洲的部分如果有這個通訊診療辦法那麼原來本來在台灣工作的這些勞心勞力的這些我們說的爆肝族他們要在那邊繼續有他們的健康需要維護"},{"start":6936.824,"end":6940.369,"text":"善用這個方法能夠讓他們得到同樣台灣健保"},{"start":6941.148,"end":6964.947,"text":"制度的照顧那也拜託衛福部次長現在台灣有51所的矯正機關目前你們只有兩個部分而且只有合作精神跟皮膚科有沒有考慮把這樣的一個辦法繼續擴大推動因為這都是法務部他們出的錢所以如果他們有需求進來還有他們要出錢你們樂於接受對不對那我會幫你保證我會去通訪衛福部做要求那也謝謝副委員長也謝謝次長 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":6972.239,"end":6979.904,"text":"接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請林益君委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請衛福部次長請次長委員好"},{"start":6998.648,"end":7015.962,"text":"市長好 首先我本席先繼續追問有關食藥署事後緊急病要轉類為只是用藥的去年12月19號的時候根據食藥署回覆本席辦公室表示已經在114年3月4月的時候分別都召開了專家會議必於12月再次召開會議討論這個事辦計畫供應的事法性還有探討"},{"start":7023.448,"end":7027.55,"text":"然後經過這些專家討論認為增進緊急事後病癮藥的可進性這些都還要再進一步的研議然後預計115年將持續召開會議取得各界的共識但是我想這個事情就是連我們最友好的日本鄰近的國家也都在114年8月29號專家會議中正式決議將緊急事後病癮藥由處方藥轉類為指示用藥批准事後病癮藥"},{"start":7052.924,"end":7062.176,"text":"可以非處方用藥方式的販賣開放女性可以就直接在藥局直接購買是先進醫藥國家中最後一個轉類為指示用藥的國家那為什麼衛福部的政策"},{"start":7068.984,"end":7073.226,"text":"食藥署105年到現在已經10年了一直在開會分別在召開緊急事後必應藥轉為只是用藥的可行性的專家的會議還有緊急事後必應藥用藥安全及可進行的事辦分享會議一直到現在都已經10年了為什麼沒有辦法執行"},{"start":7091.536,"end":7096.1,"text":"而且還沒有取得共識是因為開放緊急事後併用藥轉類為指示用藥是不是會影響某些特定的團體的利益呢所以不願意開放呢因為我想也在民調中我也去看過民調的表示就是社會團體還有女性在這民調上面都顯示七八成是完全贊成同意的"},{"start":7115.374,"end":7118.957,"text":"那為什麼衛福部食藥署到現在還不願意開放呢那哪時候要開放呢哪時候要開完專家會議呢到底要拖到什麼時候才可以我們台灣跟國際接軌包委員那這個部分因為它涉及的方面比較廣泛所以"},{"start":7134.511,"end":7159.556,"text":"上次12月開過會之後目前是希望說可以委辦計畫就是來做這個可進行的一個事辦計畫這個部分當然就是主要這邊會牽涉到兒少團體家長團體婦女團體還有醫界藥界這邊其實他們都有不同的聲音那另外剛剛委員這邊講到日本的部分日本他應該是把它列為需指導藥品"},{"start":7160.896,"end":7166.323,"text":"虛指導不是處方藥應該是虛指導藥品的部分虛指導藥品當然不是處方藥現在就是處方藥要轉類成指示用藥讓大家方便便民大家可以到藥局來購買你現在還是處方藥那就沒有用了因為現在先進的國家都已經把它轉類成指示用藥"},{"start":7180.379,"end":7183.1,"text":"已經有88個國家都這樣那請問一下台灣的醫療一直說要國際接軌一直要進步為什麼這一個政策就可以這樣耽誤了10年呢主要這邊似乎還有一些配套措施需要一些發展比如說它必須要記錄這些每個個案如果未來到只是用藥要有記錄第二個就是那個場域規劃因為有些是未成年那個隱私的問題"},{"start":7208.506,"end":7222.089,"text":"沒關係這是整個是配套的措施這個沒有關係這個就是事辦計畫裡面的細節但是好既然我們要事辦計畫跟日本一樣日本也是這樣一步一步的推行的我也知道但是如果說我們現在就是要事辦計畫到底什麼時候要事辦計畫從去年講到現在要事辦計畫到現在都還沒有那請問一下什麼時候要事辦計畫什麼時候還要再召開專家會議"},{"start":7232.391,"end":7237.296,"text":"主要是今年115年我目前知道就是115年我們會有一個委辦計畫來做好 那要盡快不要再讓我們再等10年是好 謝謝那我再繼續請教一下次長美國商務部在15日的時候有達成貿易的協定就是將美國的商品關稅稅率降低15%看起來其實是有助於台灣醫療的產業的外銷的發展"},{"start":7258.815,"end":7262.717,"text":"但最主要的問題是台灣現在的經濟規模比較小整個的製藥上面的藥廠的量人其實是普遍的不足的所以我們的製藥業其實整個就是為了零關稅其實大部分都想要把藥品外銷到美國去這樣現在你也知道台灣現在幾乎都在缺藥的情況下"},{"start":7280.043,"end":7284.687,"text":"如果是這個情況的話衛福部要如何保證國內的製藥產業在希望政府的協助擴大外銷的同時又可以保障我們國內的藥品供給無虞呢目前應該是藥品美國有關藥品部應該還沒有有稅嘛"},{"start":7302.29,"end":7316.14,"text":"像是零關稅但是大家都想要過去這樣的話是不是有大家他們有想要組成一個製藥國家隊但是如果都過去的話台灣在缺藥的情況下我們現在其實很多原廠藥原廠藥他們因為有其他學名藥所以沒有"},{"start":7321.164,"end":7324.806,"text":"所以現在我們是國內市上有相當多的學名藥可以來補這一塊我說的是缺藥的品項有些缺藥品項就是因為國外原廠藥已經沒有了沒有的情況下我們現在這些藥可能只有那個原廠藥但是台灣開始要來輔導這些國內的製藥業去成為一個就是這個藥的學名藥要開始開發但是才能因應這些缺藥的情況"},{"start":7351.598,"end":7376.575,"text":"對 所以我們現在就是希望說能夠就是針對未來有可能缺藥的部分要強化預警另外也要提升我們的儲備量還有就是在地製造我們希望說讓我們國內的藥廠可以增加製造學名藥這個部分最後就是希望能夠確保藥價就不要砍太低這個我們會跟健保署這邊一起來配合"},{"start":7376.915,"end":7390.336,"text":"是是 藥價是千萬不能砍太低現在真的是都沒有藥可以救命了所以希望那個次長可以多多幫忙一下好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 那接下來我請副委員長請副委員長"},{"start":7397.312,"end":7401.335,"text":"委員好副委員長你知道花東地區其實在地的特產的商品中其實很多是天然而且是無毒的還有原名特色的產品都是非常文明的像我的舉例就是像薄皮辣椒啦花蓮薯啦麻薯還有瑞穗香五合的蜜香紅茶還有咖啡最主要還有優質的有機米文旦柴魚片這些還有很多原住民手工的文創的藝品都是非常有當地特色的然後"},{"start":7427.632,"end":7431.654,"text":"大家也知道僑委會這幾年都是有舉辦台灣觀光產業商機的參訪團所以僑委會邀集了全球六大洲的僑台商回到台灣來參與都希望藉著這樣國際網路好協助拓展台灣的觀光產業的全球版圖"},{"start":7448.664,"end":7450.025,"text":"那我想請教委員長就是當時僑委會有沒有帶著這些僑胞企業去過花東呢有沒有爭過對花東的有機農業舉辦過專屬的媒合呢"},{"start":7459.438,"end":7464.282,"text":"報告委員有的那也很高興跟您分享因為去年的這個2025台灣觀光產業商機參訪團我們其實就是拉到花蓮去也在花蓮的這個原住民的文化館有辦活動跟座談會那那一場呢因為我自己親自有參加所以我知道現場的單位呢其實是從宜蘭縣政府"},{"start":7481.074,"end":7494.365,"text":"花蓮縣政府到台東縣政府還有我們所有的國家公園的管理處那以及農業部都有代表參加那所以我們媒合了地方政府還有中央部會以及國家公園的觀光資源我們介紹給這個觀光產業來自全世界的業者那希望他們能夠多多來推廣我們花東充滿這個觀光商機的這個產業天然的景色還有我們有很多有機的農業漁業"},{"start":7509.136,"end":7511.157,"text":"有一些非常好的精緻的農漁產品都很適合在觀光旅遊的業務上面來做推廣好 謝謝希望以後有更多的機會因為我們花東地區其實很多小農與創作家其實都缺乏外銷的通路"},{"start":7526.443,"end":7532.644,"text":"而橋台商在海外都是擁有很多商店還有物流網有的還經營連鎖的餐飲店所以我們花東其實種植很好的單生紅藜這些都是很好的養生食材所以希望這個是橋委會的業務之一希望能夠讓可以像橋台商也可以代理花東的優質產品然後也可以幫忙橋商轉型可以幫忙台東和花蓮在台灣花蓮這整個的"},{"start":7552.728,"end":7556.431,"text":"經濟好希望能夠創造雙雙贏好嗎謝謝謝謝委員我們全力來做謝謝謝謝林玉君委員接下來請陳冠廷委員上台質詢請副委員長"},{"start":7585.814,"end":7598.875,"text":"委員好委員長好那個今委內瑞拉的總統馬杜洛他在月初他是遭到美國逮捕那委內瑞拉的政局是呈現比較不穩的局面"},{"start":7599.525,"end":7624.376,"text":"那就這一個我們的掌握 僑業會的掌握目前委內瑞拉有多少台商狀況為何更委員報告這個委內瑞拉的事情其實全世界都很震驚那這個目前呢根據我們的情報還有我們的訊息我們在當地其實我們的僑胞都是安全的也沒有傳出什麼特別的"},{"start":7626.217,"end":7652.794,"text":"這個事件發生那我們當然密切的在注意當中那跟駐外單位的聯繫的管道也很暢通那也隨時有最新的訊息的話他們都會回報那啟動這個必要的協助措施那現在在委內瑞拉的台商數目大概是多少啊就你們掌握的狀況是數十數百人還是大概這一個量體是多大"},{"start":7654.629,"end":7674.897,"text":"跟委員報告當地我們台商的人數其實不多有一些其實沒有跟橋委會定期在做聯繫所以我們就比較不容易能夠第一時間馬上掌握他們的行蹤但是我們透過駐外館還有我們當地的橋台商的駐點我們都跟他們保持密切的聯繫"},{"start":7676.058,"end":7702.419,"text":"OK好那另外一个部分也是在中南美洲我们的另外一个前邦交国这个洪都拉斯那洪都拉斯现在有进取已经有确认选出新的总统那这位新的总统选签也都支持恢复跟台湾的外交关系那就你的掌握洪都拉斯在我们断交之后还有多少台商在那边不要现在他们经营的产业违和"},{"start":7705.68,"end":7708.321,"text":"跟委員報告我們在宏都拉斯的我們在宏都拉斯的橋台商主要是以傳產跟貿易業為主那這個訊息在前兩天的新聞就是宏都拉斯的新任的總統他想要跟台北恢復邦交我們有看到這個新聞但是在這個橋台商界我們目前還沒有進一步的訊息"},{"start":7730.512,"end":7736.143,"text":"那如果說接下來我們的橋台商在宏都拉斯有任何需要的話我們這邊橋委會的平台都可以隨時來替他們聯繫"},{"start":7740.59,"end":7764.161,"text":"台湾跟宏都纳斯过去最大的贸易是水产的白虾那当然2023年他们跟我们断交之后他们的这一个产量总是因为中国的这种虚假的这一个承诺那导致他们出口是骤减那甚至会影响到他们的升级那我们是认为说未来这几年那如果我们台湾"},{"start":7764.821,"end":7780.493,"text":"跟宏都拉斯會恢復關係之後那我們希望經營相關產業的台商能夠獲得這個交易會的這種資訊上面的提供資訊上面的提供或者是其他接洽交流那來去"},{"start":7781.013,"end":7807.515,"text":"准备好应对未来的外交上可能会遇到的这个变动那当然我们现在是非常希望积极的能够跟宏都拉斯能够有进一步的伙伴关系那这一部分不管是传产还是这些水产我们都希望说能够尽快的来协助他们让我们的台商能够在这边能够有更好的机会那再来就是针对乔屋电子报的成效那"},{"start":7808.615,"end":7812.563,"text":"我看橋尾會都會透過各種媒介來提供給喬武的訊息"},{"start":7813.632,"end":7838.922,"text":"那我们在看乔屋电子报的时候107年到10年他的网网路的访客平均是有逐年上升的这点是好的但是这个我们来看到如果只是看数字的话当然就有上升可是如果你看绝对数字的话有一些活动他的影片经过数个月有些时候是数十人就是观看人次"},{"start":7839.702,"end":7857.135,"text":"那对于这种不管是乔屋探索云、乔生求职的分享、乔屋工作的分享那你们有什么样的计划或怎么样的策略让有更多的这一个相关的人士、关心的人士能够有机会去接触到你们的这些管道"},{"start":7858.032,"end":7864.696,"text":"好謝謝委員的關心那也跟委員利用這個機會報告其實對於全球的橋台商 橋民 橋社來說這個橋委會對外的資訊傳播平台是非常非常的重要那這個橋委會對海外的傳播資訊的平台從最早期的宏觀電視一直到現在橋屋電子報那跟委員報告的是現在還有很多新興的媒體所以除了橋屋電子報之外我們在四大社群平台分別是Facebook Instagram"},{"start":7889.033,"end":7912.588,"text":"X還有這個還有一個是LINE我們都建立了社群的組織那在YouTube上面也有我們的影片的帳號的平台那我們就是希望說透過新興的網路的傳播媒體來結合那僑物電子報今年呢我們也有計劃要把它改版那跟委員報告的是您看到的數字可能是在這個"},{"start":7913.669,"end":7916.551,"text":"COVID的期間因為COVID的期間我們有一段時間海外的業務推展相當的不容易所以那段時間我們的這個執行率有所降低但是那個執行率的降低其實不是僑委會本身的業務而是我們委外的一些傳媒的相關業務那這是在發生在這個111年的時候"},{"start":7935.106,"end":7939.369,"text":"那經過COVID之後呢這幾年我們的執行率還有我們的宣傳的效益其實都一直在提升那我們也不斷的希望能夠精進我們對海外的宣傳的管道譬如說透過社群譬如說透過一些LINE的後台來強化對於橋台商的聯繫跟組織那希望以後這些網路的通訊媒體跟新興科技能夠發揮更大的功能來協助我們在第一時間"},{"start":7962.163,"end":7963.065,"text":"給這個海外的橋台商僑民僑胞們最新的訊息好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":7971.628,"end":7995.163,"text":"好 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身體不舒服趕快買機票回台灣來嗎應該是有困難有困難 那怎麼辦呢我們來看一下今天我們衛福部提供了一個解方這是我在2022年的時候跟那時候的越南的台商總會長簡總會長還有前面好幾任的總會長他們在推動什麼推動所謂一個叫做通訊"},{"start":235.481,"end":250.315,"text":"診療 診察醫療辦法來 我們請莊次長來看一看然後呢 對不起 還沒往然後呢 接著呢在2023年的1月10號我們還在衛福部我們 我就去質詢了後來呢 在這個推動之下呢"},{"start":252.965,"end":269.236,"text":"请问一下那个次长那时候你在疾管局吗我觉得薛副部长那时候是9月28号您在嘛在疾管署嘛我们在那边开一个会嘛你有印象吗我没有在当场这个会议啦但是你了解这个通讯诊查治疗办法对因为在"},{"start":270.677,"end":293.634,"text":"2024年7月1號就上路了嘛是的而且那時候你們增加了五類嘛過去有沒有包括在海外工作的國人沒有後來把台商納進去了嘛所以呢後來我再到了2024年的3月15號我在衛生行會我也做了質詢結果你們5月20號就開始有記者會宣導7月1號正式上路這裡面有好多家醫療機構能統統參與市長你覺得這樣的一個診療辦法在疫情期間"},{"start":299.638,"end":318.103,"text":"本來就有後來擴大使用你覺得可以怎麼樣的服務更多的國人呢目前其實我們有在目前其實就是通訊診療那的確有它的的必要尤其是在這個離島跟偏鄉的部分但是因為我們國內其實很多這個"},{"start":319.423,"end":347.176,"text":"我們健保其實醫療院所都在啦所以就可能就比較那我們喬台商呢喬包跟台商目前就是其實就在7月2號就台商其實就跟同中和那邊其實應該就開了一個記者會所以那個時候他其實自費因為限於健保法的規定就是說我們國人在外面如果有緊急的一個疾病喔那是可以回來退就是核退啦但是其他的部分可能就要自費我跟副委員長跟次長說明一下"},{"start":348.397,"end":355.752,"text":"這個有一個精神很重要因為原來的這些僑胞或台商他如果在國內就有原來的慢性病原來的疾病有就診"},{"start":356.755,"end":380.203,"text":"那他在原來的診療的關係上他可以透過這樣的通訊診療能夠在海外也可以得到什麼慢性命處方菌的繼續開立所以副委員長這樣了解所以第一個我們最先試辦的是越南然後呢再來就是馬來西亞聽說三月頭要到菲律賓去請問委員長您會不會繼續往其他各個橋界去推動"},{"start":383.67,"end":405.58,"text":"謝謝委員的關心如果這個橋台商有需要聽到行程反應我們都很願意來推動好 那我們來幫你看一下其實這裡面包含的呢也次長看一下這裡面不是只有海外工作的國人它其實包括國內的這些因為除了山地 離島 偏鄉還有一些在矯正機關的受刑人因為他們"},{"start":406.3,"end":422.415,"text":"沒有行動自由過去都要借戶送醫對不對 借戶送醫所以很麻煩 我們往下看那現在呢 你看看這是衛福部你們過去呢在馬來西亞 越南都做了好 往下看來 請次長接下來請教次長 來再往下一頁"},{"start":422.987,"end":451.277,"text":"所以未來有沒有繼續往通訊機關矯正機關的通訊診療你們有沒有繼續在做報委員 目前其實是有的目前有針對精神科跟體務科是有透過這個通訊診療方式來做這個需要長期的追蹤的但是我們也知道一些心血管疾病一些慢性病現在高齡化很多矯正機關裡面的受刑人本身年事偏高經常像這種氣溫急劇變化就經常要緊急送醫"},{"start":451.937,"end":480.296,"text":"他如果能夠得到平常定期的追蹤診施是不是比較好對不過目前其實他們都有這些都有醫師在那邊那個是醫務所啦醫務所裡面那麼多分科啦而且看的不是你原來的醫師啦所以未來如果能夠把這個慣法推廣到矯正機關跟法務部合作你樂不樂見未來我們的全民健保這麼優秀的醫療體制可以讓這些在矯正機關裡面他可以延續在原來在外面得到的醫療機構的照顧跟服務"},{"start":482.117,"end":511.637,"text":"對 我們可以再跟那個法務部這邊再來針對這個部分那我再告訴你目前大概只有兩所監所啦再往下看所以呢 最後我們結論結論說喬回這邊我想你們已經做得很好我們就持續的擴大推動尤其是未來像鳳凰城像北美洲的部分如果有這個通訊診療辦法那麼原來本來在台灣工作的這些勞心勞力的這些我們說的爆肝族他們要在那邊繼續有他們的健康需要維護善用這個方法"},{"start":512.157,"end":541.397,"text":"能够让他们得到同样台湾健保的制度的照顾那也拜托卫福部次长现在呢台湾有51所的矫正机关目前你们只有两个部分而且只有合作精神跟皮肤科有没有考虑把这样的一个办法继续扩大推动这个因为这都是法务部他们出的钱所以如果他们有需求进来还有他们要出你们乐于接受对不对好那我会帮你保证我会去通常不做要求那也谢谢副委员长也谢谢次长谢谢谢谢委员谢谢"},{"start":541.817,"end":541.852,"text":"谢谢观看"}]}},{"id":"167314","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167314","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88796b3c71fa483f4652fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb572cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:18:48 - 10:30:00","影片長度":"00:11:12","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T10:18:48+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T10:30:00+08:00","duration":672,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.84096875,"end":3.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.77284375,"end":42.471593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.99909375,"end":15.336593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.20534375,"end":18.610343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.88221875,"end":34.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.893468750000004,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.399093750000006,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.001593750000005,"end":71.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.203468750000006,"end":58.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.85096875,"end":78.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.99409375,"end":75.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.88784375,"end":91.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.59034375,"end":104.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.70846875000001,"end":92.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.04159375,"end":94.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.23096875,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.17971875,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.60534375,"end":106.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.74846875,"end":115.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.27971875,"end":109.73534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.27034375000001,"end":130.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.29971875000001,"end":116.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.55096875,"end":174.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.23784375,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.81971875000002,"end":137.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.64784375000002,"end":156.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.88221875000002,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.78846875000002,"end":175.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.46346875,"end":203.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.75971875000002,"end":198.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.85596875000002,"end":201.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.88971875000001,"end":207.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.66971875000002,"end":205.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.87221875,"end":218.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.92096875000001,"end":229.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.96721875,"end":220.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.20284375000003,"end":223.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.43846875000003,"end":227.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.70409375000003,"end":232.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.27346875,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.20971875,"end":234.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.15034375000002,"end":236.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.73659375000003,"end":237.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.30596875,"end":239.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.40284375000002,"end":250.62471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.31346875000003,"end":244.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.67596875,"end":246.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.87784375,"end":253.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.32471875000002,"end":253.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.71284375000002,"end":258.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.10096875000002,"end":255.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.97346875,"end":269.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.87909375000004,"end":269.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.89596875,"end":282.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.80534375,"end":284.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.05846875000003,"end":284.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.52659375,"end":293.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.03596875,"end":313.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.57971875000004,"end":299.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.40596875,"end":301.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.10846875000004,"end":321.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.82471875000005,"end":321.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.24659375000005,"end":333.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.76784375,"end":376.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.27721875000003,"end":341.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPE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謝謝主席 我們請部長要請石部長好 最後一人早部長好剛剛大家都在關心這個議題就是我們春節期間那我看了一下資料這個去年的時候平均每天急診就3.7萬人次那最高單日達到4.5萬人"},{"start":21.696,"end":46.81,"text":"不論對急診醫護人員或對正在等床等救命的病人來說都是一個非常緊繃甚至帶有風險的一個狀況尤其是對重症的重症者而言時間就是生命那部長你們所謂的強化區域聯防機制遇到某一家醫院或某一個區域急診跟ICU的量能已經飽和的時候實際負責調度跟轉送決策的是誰是中央還是地方"},{"start":48.275,"end":74.102,"text":"這個當然是這個跟委員報告說我們第一個是監測系統把它建立起來所以包含這個ICU 膠物病房的量的情形都有然後地區上我們有一個這個地區的這個RMEOC這個區域的緊急醫療應變中心會協助衛生局來做病床的所以他是中央來主導還是地方在掌控"},{"start":76.463,"end":91.321,"text":"地方失靈的時候我們中央什麼時候會介入因為我們也建立了這個平台所以我們會他需要跨區的協助的時候我們就會透過這個剛剛提到的REMOC來協助跨區的調度這樣"},{"start":93.085,"end":113.503,"text":"您提的是這樣因為每個縣市衛生局他只能管到他轄內醫療院所那可能每一個縣市的醫療資源因為我看到有這個需要跨區的調度有這個東西但是就是沒有人負責我現在意思是這樣總是要有一個人負責去做這件事情不能說到時候出了狀況又推來推去的"},{"start":116.005,"end":139.57,"text":"會 今年我們特別強化這個區域的合作包含我們的這個健保的分區業務組的組長包含我們這個剛剛提到的這個REMOC都會在這個對啦 我不希望這只是林委員寫得很清楚我希望這個還是要有一個人負責這樣才有責任當然這樣做起來才會比較有效率 好吧那另外我看到你們這個春節的整備專案裡面"},{"start":140.51,"end":163.391,"text":"你們投入了16億用在診察費跟護理費跟藥事服務費加成簡單說這16億其實有兩個目標啦當然是一個降低急診擁塞的情況嘛那第二個是安撫我們在線的這個第一線比較忙碌的這些人員嘛那我們先講第一個目標你們要避免春節急診擁塞核心的做法就是讓"},{"start":164.452,"end":174.53,"text":"醫院門診 急診診所願意開診讓輕症患者有地方去嘛那不要全部都擠到急診去那你有沒有設定一個目標你們這一次要打到幾層啊"},{"start":175.578,"end":204.119,"text":"就是說在醫院的部分過去大概開診率比較低的都是初一、初二、初三一般都初四、初五就開診了所以我們去提高初一、初二、初三這幾天的開診率那目前看起來醫院都會到七成以上都會開了那另外基層的部分過去這幾天大概都2%到4%左右而已那我們今年希望能夠提高到大概10%左右你怎麼做 你這個時日你要怎麼做"},{"start":205.4,"end":230.567,"text":"怎麼做讓他我們現在已經第一個我們有這個剛剛提到的這個獎勵的機制另外有衛生局可以協調地方的醫師公會去這個安排看診然後我們再把這個已經有具體做了嗎已經在進行了我不希望這只是這個花了錢在碰運氣啦不要說我有這個政策但是呢要看這個地方的診所自己願意參加我們提供獎勵當然要進去協調啦我覺得這個才會有效果"},{"start":234.028,"end":258.471,"text":"因為再來就是我們這個疾管署我們2025年春節期間全國加開的傳染病特別門診大概是1230次這個診症那今年延續去年一樣會開今年要開多少次一樣就是急救責任醫院都會開因為你們去年好像只有提高一成嘛對不對"},{"start":260.712,"end":269.325,"text":"對 去年只有CDC的流感門診有獎勵措施今年是全面性的 有健保介入"},{"start":270.768,"end":291.805,"text":"那第二個目標就是我們讓這個春節要上班急診與住院的這個病房醫師醫護人員在原本的加班費之外再有額外的補償加成嗎這樣沒有錯嗎對就是我們提供的提供在這個住院的部分的這個護理費、診察費還有這個藥事服務費都加成"},{"start":292.245,"end":313.273,"text":"我看到你們的規定寫得非常明確,至少有80%要實際發給出行的人員那我看到因為醫學中心違例,一名護理人員在春節期間只要實際上一個班在這個加成制度下,實際可以領多少錢?有算過嗎?"},{"start":314.298,"end":333.6,"text":"沒有 這個是我們以這樣的方式去給醫院費用但是醫院還要去分攤給其他的比如說他可能也有清潔人員要出來或者是S光 醫師檢驗師 醫師放射師所以他們是要去這個錢去給有上班的人大家去分配的"},{"start":333.84,"end":347.441,"text":"那個護理師公會全國聯合會在社群上有幫你們計算這個做法把它計算出來那以醫學中心急性一般病床為例這個護理費第二天以後是888點"},{"start":349.304,"end":360.969,"text":"春節加成100%每床大概多888點40床就是35520點如果一天三班合計16人出勤平均每人可以分配到2220點那其中至少八成約1776點應該要發給實際出勤的第一線人員一天有三班等於護理師 護理人員上一個班大概多600元左右這個數字對嗎"},{"start":379.717,"end":405.094,"text":"我不太敢確定是醫院怎麼樣去處理這些費用因為他們本來就有在加我知道他實際是給院裡面處理但我現在問的不是個案差異而是制度設計下合理推估上一個班第一線護理人員到底能夠拿到多少這如果我們自己都講不出來這個加成對他們來說到底是不是一個有感的一個獎勵金我覺得部長要去思考"},{"start":405.834,"end":431.996,"text":"好不好 因為這個我覺得非常重要啦 因為我們不曉得他們怎麼去處理嘛 我覺得我們部裡面既然有這個心意我還是要讓醫護人員能夠感受到 好不好另外 我們賴總統在選前親自向護理人員做出明確的承諾開出一張很清楚的支票 三班護病筆要入法 兩年內要入法現在今年五月二十賴總統就要兩年了 上任就要兩年了"},{"start":432.316,"end":441.655,"text":"那目前只剩下半年的時間我請教部長我們總統的政見三班戶並比兩年要入法這項承諾會不會跳票"},{"start":442.911,"end":469.908,"text":"我想這個在這個三班護病比上我們做了很多的努力那現在看起來護理人員有在這個提升這個已經在回流了啦然後這個符合達標的比例也在提高那不過呢我們還有很多的做法包含這個自動化的措施簡化那麼對因為很多醫院所以到底這個護病比應該要做什麼樣的他已經達標了沒有錯有很多已經到地區醫院到92點"},{"start":471.169,"end":471.69,"text":"我想這個互併筆入法"},{"start":492.727,"end":502.723,"text":"這個我想這個方向我們會朝這個方向來努力不過重點是那個比例應該是多少要讓它有彈性不要是一個很固定的一個數值反而那個彈性不見了那麼"},{"start":505.447,"end":525.972,"text":"反而讓這個醫院沒有願意去投入讓他去降低這個臨床的負荷那同時也可能影響到病人的權益啦所以這個我們是要兩邊要兼顧的所以我是覺得這個部分還是要加快因為我們醫護人員這個大出走的時候我們再來處理就太慢了"},{"start":527.32,"end":555.054,"text":"降低這個臨床的負荷這個目標是一致的這個不會改變但是我剛剛提到的這個護病比的數字不要用一個單一的數字我希望這樣啦 這個議題這個法案不要變成一個政治議題啦不要說到時候萬一這個出了狀況之後才拿來做趕快來入法然後來救生量我不希望把它變成一個政治工具好不好部長你這個盡快那另外最近看到新聞啦就是"},{"start":556.455,"end":579.802,"text":"這個印度西孟加拉省爆發的高致死率的立百病毒的疫情那我看到我們的報告就是說預告60天所以在3月中會將立百病毒列為第五類法定傳染病那我們在1月27號發布這個醫界通函提醒醫師詢問這個旅遊史等等這些但我看到看的是說"},{"start":581.082,"end":603.818,"text":"預告期60天是你們的行政慣例那可是其實亞洲國家其實就已經戰戰兢兢在在解決這個事情你不覺得60天太久嗎這個我們隨時來調整不過我們在一介通海裡面已經提到就可以開始通報了那這個預告完之後那個就變成強制性啦那現在我們已經是要求提高這個警覺如果"},{"start":604.659,"end":619.438,"text":"排除了現有的病毒性感染特別是在腦炎的部分尤其現在是春節期間很多國人都會從這個在外面的都會回來或者出國旅遊的所以我覺得這是高峰期你這個我覺得這個東西你拖到60天會不會太慢不會"},{"start":621.04,"end":639.515,"text":"應該跟委員說明這個是法律規定我們就這樣做可是實務上我們在進行的防疫措施已經啟動了那另外也藉這個機會也跟國人說明一下目前在印度發生的這一個立百病毒的案例看起來是控制住的"},{"start":640.155,"end":663.046,"text":"你不要講控制 當初花蓮那個焰射壺也是說控制住 後來不是出了狀況對不對 我覺得我們還是不管做什麼啦 就是說還是要未雨綢繆我希望這個東西就是未雨綢繆我們做好準備 但是國人不需驚慌不用太擔心 當然不用驚慌 可是因為要相信你們啦對不對 對但是我希望布裡面不要讓人民失望沒有問題 謝謝"},{"start":669.834,"end":672.656,"text":"好 謝謝邱正軍委員發言 接下來請"}]}},{"id":"167311","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167311","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a883e466084783330815ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb57b63d252e14d10cbe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:00:05 - 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所以有一個真性嘛"},{"start":110.583,"end":135.257,"text":"連針嘛 銀行又銀行股啊 又不是隨便放款他一定會去看你的信用 你的所得你的營業額 甚至你有沒有不動產 資產 負債都會看完 經過徵信完我決定 我銀行要借你一億可是我覺得對你信用上我有所疑慮 要你找個保證人這個保證人呢 在海外就是海外信保基金 你們來當保證人"},{"start":136.658,"end":151.011,"text":"在家庭通常呢配偶買房子連帶保證人就找另外一個配偶嘛綁在一起啊所以政府擔任所謂信保的角色就是當我們中小企業如果在海外他要去拚經濟"},{"start":152.412,"end":176.708,"text":"可是他拿不到銀行啊 海外美國的銀行不借他錢啊歐洲銀行不借他錢啊或者因為你誰擔保的身份差別 利率會有所差別美國的話 如果你是初次來這邊做生意 大概是6%那一般信用比較好 有往來的大概是2%以下啦這個是海外資金運作的所以我再跟你確認這件事情就是我們長年以來 這個又不是我們現在執政才有"},{"start":177.408,"end":194.043,"text":"長年以來喬委會的海外信保基金為了幫助我們喬台商我們在信保的額度每一億你們要準備的成本大概是1.4%左右我這樣全是沒有錯嘛這個就是成本嘛"},{"start":195.284,"end":221.904,"text":"所以100塊要準備1.4塊100億要準備1.4億140萬美金140萬美金要準備這個額度所以從這來看我們最近跟美國談到的所謂的最惠國待遇或者是關稅談判我覺得它是一個專業問題政治的口水沒辦法去掩蓋真實如果這個談判的條件不好企業界會知道"},{"start":223.206,"end":233.942,"text":"產業界會知道如果這個談判的條件不錯產業界也會知道也許對政治人物的評價可以透過抹黑啊 造謠啊可以有一時的影響但是這是紮紮實實的經濟議題"},{"start":236.738,"end":255.364,"text":"所以2500億所謂的對美投資那個是指私人部分包含台積電的1600億美金還有我們要購買我們的能源等等那個大概就消化掉了很多人把後面那2500億美金的信用單保直接把它加上去你們會這樣加嗎"},{"start":258.399,"end":278.064,"text":"應該不一定啦 因為事實上本身這個企業他的投資的錢到底是自己的錢或者是跟銀行借來的錢其實是都有可能的 用家法就不對嘛就好像你兒子去買一間房子一千萬叫你這個老爸來擔保一千萬難道你還要在另外拿一千萬放在那裡 不是你是擔保他那一千萬不還的時候你的貸產嘛 是"},{"start":278.752,"end":308.044,"text":"那代償率1.4%我就要準備1000萬我就準備個這個14萬嘛就代償率的概念是這樣子所以2500億美金的擔保或信保其實我準備就是2500億乘上1.4%大概35億美金35億啦何況像台積電那種公司哪需要你信保啊所以還會更小大概會低於25億美金因為許多會到美國投資的大型公司他本身的Credibility在"},{"start":309.603,"end":333.52,"text":"國際任何銀行都搶到借他錢根本不用你去信保他所以他真正幫助到的是比較少涉足海外投資的或者是首次去海外投資的或者是屬於中小型規模欠缺他的這個Credibility這樣的企業我們在幫助的是 輔助的是這樣的弱勢或中小或者他有能力只是缺乏過去的時機"},{"start":334.941,"end":350.459,"text":"就像我們的性保基金一樣 對不對所以第一個命題我剛才請教的就是透過我們政府長年就存在的對海外叫海外性保在國內的就是中小性保這個不是現在才有欸你們海外性保操作幾年了"},{"start":351.634,"end":370.346,"text":"37年多了37年多啊我們在場大概沒有幾個比37年小啦我們都比他大但37年也算蠻長的時間所以37年來歷經多任的政府信保是一個我們我們的企業家我們的產業界去海外打拼的時候他的一個工具"},{"start":371.447,"end":394.868,"text":"從來沒有人說我信保 我們僑委會信保我們的信保金 信保1億5千147萬美金哇 那你僑委會的預算 大概一半就拿去花掉了沒有人這樣算的所以我們該透過這樣子 讓他理解信保的概念那個貸償率1.4%才是一個潛在的成本而且那還可以再追償的你只是擔任擔保 所以"},{"start":396.41,"end":410.646,"text":"2500億準備起來是35億美金如果扣掉大型企業那種自己就可以擔保自己的大概還要比35億美金更小現在任何人再把2500億信保那就不是不懂囉如果看到我們這段不是不懂囉"},{"start":411.607,"end":426.774,"text":"那就裝不懂直接要亂帶風去破壞台灣好朋友談到這麼優惠那台灣的傳統產業不管在台中在彰化在任何地方因為這樣子 韓國已經吃雞了韓國變25%15%不疊加跟25%要疊加差多少如果你原始稅率是21或27要疊加的意思就是變50多%欸跟15%封頂不疊加"},{"start":439.977,"end":445.007,"text":"台灣的中小企業的命脈在這裡那我現在要請教你的第二個問題我們也請副委員長上來"},{"start":447.13,"end":470.356,"text":"那個現在有產生一個情形台灣確實在對等關稅談判達到了15%另外還有2.5倍的投資可以豁免抵稅歸零還有232條款對九大產業的列入不管是汽車零組件我們的水五金工具機腳踏車零組件等等等等"},{"start":471.974,"end":485.59,"text":"那我現在要請教僑委會跟信保基金的是我們有一些僑台商他的工廠是在台美以外的第三國而像東南亞有的是19%有的21%有的還要疊加有的還有懲罰稀產地幫中國稀產地的懲罰性關稅20%"},{"start":491.516,"end":510.675,"text":"那我們的橋台商如果因為在越南啊在哪裡遇到這樣困難他轉去美國投資我請教橋友會這個投資額度有沒有列入台灣對美投資額度他從第三地比如說我們某某橋台商現在他的工廠設在非洲設在東南亞"},{"start":511.415,"end":525.995,"text":"而他現在決定因應這個關稅我在這邊生產把我的利潤吃掉了我現在某某橋台商呢把我們的資金要拿到美國加州投資德州投資這個有沒有列入我們中華民國對美投資的額度內"},{"start":528.048,"end":539.277,"text":"謝謝委員的關心喔 僑委會的工作主要是做僑台商的平台那您剛剛的問題呢 可能專業的經濟部或者是這個我們的談判小組來回答比較適合 對 那我們一定是全力配合不是配合 你們要了解這一點 僑台商如果你們服務夠好 僑台商第一個會找到你們欸 請教一下 我現在在印尼這個工場齁我準備挪一億美金去投資美國"},{"start":554.429,"end":558.993,"text":"阿這個有沒有算我們國家對美投資因為這個題目會決定下一題喔但是僑委會的立場我們不是這個主事的機關我們還是要以這個對其他的像經濟部或者是談判小組我要你們去了解嘛"},{"start":569.983,"end":595.434,"text":"Q&A要答得出來啊你Q&A都答不出來你怎麼服務橋台商答完之後說請找經貿辦請找經濟部國貿局他有他業管單位但橋台商我從第三國移到美國去投資的時候有沒有列入我們國家對美投資這個很重要這牽涉到我們一開始那2500億台積電已經投資1600億了第二個他如果從第三國到美國投資信保金金"},{"start":596.565,"end":615.833,"text":"可不可以列入我們服務的對象是可以嘛所以這兩題是相關的如果我們今天有一個在印尼的橋台商他從印尼到美國去投資我們國家納稅人的信保基金縱使就1.7%的成本潛在成本我去擔保他去美國他可以取得比較低的競爭優勢"},{"start":617.153,"end":636.683,"text":"那他到底有沒有列入我們對美投資問清楚啊如果沒有你可以提醒我們談判辦說這個要列進去啊這一旦列進去我們的信保海外信保基金等於變成整體國家的作戰而且我們國家的那2500億美金的信保是不是要把你們這個納入裡面"},{"start":639.025,"end":647.925,"text":"include列在額度裡面而不是列在外面因為光列在額度我看你們2025年就吃下了一億五千萬美金啊不錯啊"},{"start":649.071,"end":675.62,"text":"這不錯啊 這個減輕我們的負擔啊縱使就1.7% 1.4%也是一個負擔啊那個信保董事長知道我的意思嗎就是說這一個額度有沒有列入我們對美投資額度有不錯啊第二個他現在已經算是我們信保服務的客戶那我信保這一個額度有沒有列入那第二段2500億的美金的信保的額度裡面如果有更好我現在在做就可以扣掉"},{"start":676.547,"end":684.363,"text":"你這樣懂我意思嗎那你們現在如果沒有答案請盡速回答本委員會跟本席這樣好不好好 謝謝委員的戰略思維我們就配合趕快來去這個好 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請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長那個鐵道局我們楊局長鐵道局楊正軍局長委員好好 部長 局長大家早啊大家都知道了你們辛苦一下因為我們今天啊確實對於軌道的政策啊也提出一個專案報告"},{"start":28.499,"end":56.694,"text":"可是當然因為我也列之一二確實過去鐵道的預算是多的可是這幾年下來是下降的那當然在這裡報告我也不是針對這些指定專案報告的這整個鐵路但是比較敏感從這半個月以來"},{"start":58.09,"end":79.52,"text":"為了高鐵宜蘭站也就是我們過去張景生前政委他提出非常之多的這些批判當然他個人有個人的看法他也算一個專家我們也要尊重他但是我個人覺得"},{"start":82.557,"end":110.623,"text":"交通建設不能依照經濟效益而來斷定做跟不做但是沒有辦法現在風風雨雨不管是媒體不管是當地不管是團體都反對這件事情第一我要請教部長兩個問題第一個你對這件事情"},{"start":111.713,"end":139.438,"text":"既然強烈這麼反對部長你有什麼看法報告委員強烈的反對我覺得這都是形容詞那多強烈我覺得要有科學的評估我們其實有做過民調剛剛洪孟愷委員在問的時候我有回答過我們在宜蘭縣議會幾乎看到大部分絕大多數的議員們都是支持的宜蘭的立法委員也是支持的"},{"start":139.958,"end":158.503,"text":"宜蘭的縣政府也有表達過他們也是支持的這是第一點第二點我剛剛講說反對的感覺要有科學的數據所以我們有做過民調我們目前宜蘭的鄉親我們做民調支持宜蘭高鐵延伸到宜蘭的有79.5%是支持的那反對的數據可能蠻低的反對當然啦正反雙方都有"},{"start":167.785,"end":196.441,"text":"可是據我了解宜蘭地區確實包括老百姓包括政府機關甚至於都把本來97公頃都把它擴大甚至於整個篆圍鄉他們都蠻希望化為交通用地這是事實因為我考察過地方民群我了解所以基本上現在已經箭在弦上"},{"start":199.163,"end":212.975,"text":"請問現在張景深政委他說是不是請你們做公投你的看法部長做公投報告委員公投這件事不太可能由交通部來發動"},{"start":215.287,"end":241.548,"text":"他們要做這些公投你同不同意我們已經有做過民調了對我們做過的是民調嘛他現在要發起公投要不要見公投是人民的權利我們都尊重你尊重我們都尊重但是你不覺得這個公投做下去對我們整個交通建設的會耽擱嗎你不不擔心嗎"},{"start":242.669,"end":264.137,"text":"我們還是希望啦因為很多的民眾是期待交通建設要發展那我們還是期待說交通建設可以趕快來進行是所有民眾所期待的所以你對公投同不同意嗎或者你認為民調就可以顯現出來公投我沒有辦法同意或不同意我們會尊重會尊重 好"},{"start":266.175,"end":278.747,"text":"那個 楊局長可以請回來我們陳署長來 觀光署陳署長來 我也要拜託我們那個觀光署啊幕僚單位也提供資料給署長"},{"start":282.498,"end":301.004,"text":"來 我們今天最主要是觀光部長我一向不太贊同就是為了捍衛你們的做法而在那邊跟立委在那邊有所爭議這一點我是滿反對的"},{"start":302.489,"end":327.787,"text":"立法委員是有意見下情上達然後轉印給決策單位來做觀光政策如何去補足這個不足的地方所以部長我還是建議這裡面當然數據你難怪我們立法院的同仁在質疑這些觀光我舉個例子"},{"start":328.507,"end":334.572,"text":"你們現在美麗的數據完全不能反映到"},{"start":335.589,"end":339.671,"text":"這個產業是七產的產喔產業的這種感覺我幾例專門辦國禮也得到我們觀光署所表揚的這些禮行業他都關門了耶 部長他都關門了報章雜誌在報導 禮行社"},{"start":364.253,"end":390.104,"text":"辦國禮的已經有46家關門了那請問一下既然數據這麼好為什麼他要關門就是因為我們統計的數據雖然過去是這樣統計但是事實上是有所出入的有所出入所以我還是要建議部長啊因為我也知道你不能管得這麼細"},{"start":392.126,"end":406.068,"text":"觀光署當然就要為以籌謀如何檢討改進去符合人民所需要業者所需要這些才有意義啦那剛才重點就是這樣嘛"},{"start":407.85,"end":427.381,"text":"我說實在你不能灌水的政策達到美麗的數據這一點我是很懷疑報告委員數據一定不會灌水一定灌水啦報告委員數據一定不會灌水在國會殿堂我不要跟你去狡辯私底下我才告訴你們如何去灌水"},{"start":428.041,"end":449.702,"text":"我相信這個數據不是部長不是署長但是底下的人說實在的不能這樣灌水有沒有灌水不要爭議但事實上我剛才已經講了業者可以馬上反映我幾例啊像我屏東我們恆春"},{"start":451.407,"end":459.265,"text":"他們一年過去是四百萬五百萬現在一年不到兩百萬今年只有兩百零幾萬"},{"start":460.95,"end":489.33,"text":"明年他們在擔心他們現在所有的賣場根本幾乎八成都關門大吉不定我相信你是管政策你不會管這麼細節的東西但是署長你要監督這些我還是要建議每一個縣市都有他的觀光產值跟觀光特色"},{"start":490.251,"end":511.744,"text":"你們要針對一個縣市一個縣市把它的特色 像我們新北 九份它有貴的很好吃你們要不要去辦這些讓人家有一個景點式特色去做促銷這些你要去做啊可是到現在為止"},{"start":512.879,"end":524.695,"text":"為止我只有看到美麗的數據從來沒有看到我們因應對策我要拜託你針對光光的問題不是數據啦而是實際"},{"start":529.045,"end":548.141,"text":"不是數據你們的數據都很漂亮啊你們過去就是因為這是錯誤的數據才會導致現在觀光產業慘到不能慘的一個地步所以這個部分真的啊 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主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長還有我們觀光署陳署長請陳部長及陳署長"},{"start":13.699,"end":29.972,"text":"部長好部長本席開宗明義先強調我認為說全台灣大家交通建設都應該要建立生活圈讓交通更方便這是我們共同目標交通沒有最好只有更好但是現在本席看到跟"},{"start":31.158,"end":59.481,"text":"交通部長跟前任部長我們賀承鄧部長也報導直接寫說前交長槓現任那期待公開的討論我不知道說這個陳部長你有沒有感覺到跟前任的部長有這個對槓隔空對槓的感覺完全沒這個感覺完全沒有但是感覺你們沒有在聚焦因為賀承鄧前部長他講的是所謂宜蘭高鐵的一個部分那也講到是說其實現在的鐵道局並沒有把"},{"start":60.001,"end":85.312,"text":"所謂的宜蘭直鐵台鐵的一個規劃納入這個評估考量所以可行性評估會變成是一個很龐大的一個建設但是可能偉大甩不掉而且並沒有辦法解決宜蘭人通勤或者是說往返台北的需求那不要說前部長跟現任部長互槓啊張景生前政委他在他的臉書你有沒有看"},{"start":86.378,"end":108.176,"text":"我没有仔细看到你没有看到脸书但是行政院院长说他每一篇的脸书都有看所以很显然我们部长比院长还要更公务繁忙不过这也不是重点重点在于是说行政院院长就讲是说我没有加他好友所以你没有加好友那没有问题但是行政院院长讲是说他都把张景深政委的意见"},{"start":109.886,"end":121.716,"text":"轉達給我們交通部部長陳士凱那來 請教一下現在既然院長也已經交辦給你了那賀成旦直接在 張景生直接在他臉書上講說宜蘭高鐵會是史詩級災難4000億解決不了交通問題"},{"start":127.079,"end":143.166,"text":"部長怎麼回應報告委員其實高鐵跟紙鐵的這個議題紙鐵的議題已經討論差不多有一二十年的時間並不是說這個議題沒有拿出來討論我想賀成部長應該也相當的清楚因為我現在在問張景生張景生說史詩級災難並且張景生講說民進黨的高官們都紛紛私下跟他講說"},{"start":150.249,"end":172.731,"text":"張景深政委你說的對啊宜蘭高鐵不可行我不曉得是哪些高官們跟他說啦但是當時在決定從直鐵轉換為高鐵的過程當中張景深前政委當時長期在行政院擔任政務委員他應該也很清楚整個過程那為什麼他會說他不了解這個我就不曉得不是 他沒有說他不了解他直接講說這是史詩級災難"},{"start":175,"end":191.08,"text":"所以現在是怎樣在民進黨政府裡面當官的人都不能講真話那辭官之後退休了無事一聲清就可以真話就滿天飛包委員我覺得鐵路的建設包括您很關心的您選區裡面的一些輕軌建設等等這些都是很專業的討論"},{"start":192.321,"end":212.318,"text":"我相信專業啊所以我現在才想請教張景生也好或是說前交通部長賀承旦也好現在都講出來說認為說這是不可行沒有辦法解決問題我開宗明義講是說我們全台各縣市的人都有資格有最好的交通品質但是怎麼樣做那現在就變成是說"},{"start":213.419,"end":237.737,"text":"大家認為是花了四千億沒有辦法解決問題而且甚至連民進黨的宜蘭縣長候選人在他臉書上貼說要支持宜蘭高鐵下面都有很多支持者講啊都在臉書上講是說他支持他我是民進黨支持者但是我反對宜蘭高鐵那就代表是說政府的決策跟現在宜蘭人的想法訴求可能是有落差的啊"},{"start":238.325,"end":261.266,"text":"報告委員來 部長我所看到的宜蘭縣議會大部分的民意代表其實是支持宜蘭高鐵的方案那宜蘭的立法委員也表達過他支持宜蘭高鐵的方案甚至宜蘭縣政府其實也有表達過他們支持宜蘭高鐵的方案所以前交通部長賀承旦的聲音或是前政委張景生的聲音"},{"start":262.449,"end":288.154,"text":"他們不重要還是說他們就不夠專業他們的聲音我們都很重視他們也都在政府部門做過事所以應該很清楚政府部門在做這些決策的過程當中有很嚴謹而且專業的討論過程就是因為這樣所以說本席才好奇說為什麼會有那麼大的落差來 不好意思那個鄭董事長台鐵鄭董事長我知道因為您之前這個腳受傷特別請教不過我就請教您一個專業的問題因為我覺得在現場您真的很有資格發個言"},{"start":293.212,"end":301.389,"text":"過去您是高鐵的董事長現在是台鐵的董事長本席不是要給你陷阱題 您放心但是本席很認真的要請教"},{"start":302.536,"end":323.288,"text":"過去高鐵評估說所謂的宜蘭高鐵或是說現在有人講是說如果宜蘭可以直鐵讓台鐵用新的自強號普悠瑪或是更好的這個列車來服務能夠有比較低的成本但是能夠快速的服務讓宜蘭人能夠也有很快速整點多班次的一個交通工具"},{"start":324.164,"end":340.924,"text":"您覺得哪一個方案會是你站在有擔任過高鐵董事長跟台鐵董事長兩個評估那你現在台鐵董事長您覺得勒有沒有在更重啟或是討論的空間而不是像現在一味的就講說不管什麼聲音我就是高鐵我就是要硬幹到底"},{"start":341.533,"end":362.359,"text":"而且目前的這個規劃的方向應該是我是贊成的就是說高鐵 讓高鐵直接到宜蘭去這樣的話呢整個我們高鐵目前的這個好的品質啊這個一路到這個宜蘭那鄭董事長有沒有聽到前政委張景生在他臉書上直接講說如果說高鐵到宜蘭會是史詩級災難"},{"start":363.686,"end":386.981,"text":"我有聽說 但是我沒有很詳細去了解他講的那您認同這個話嗎至少我目前看來是這個我不認同這樣一個講法你不認同 好 來 部長所以現在就變成是一個非常大的落差因為張景深政委他直接在臉書上講他講說給行政院院長了然後行政院院長也說交辦給你了"},{"start":387.481,"end":414.066,"text":"然後馬政委也講說你不要再賴了啊院長都有看到啊那甚至講說這個民進黨的高官們每一個人都支持啊那為什麼會有這樣的落差民眾的感受我不曉得哪些高官們支持哪些高官因為你那天那個婚禮沒有去嘛對不對看起來那個婚禮是你沒有去嘛不然可能張景深就直接跟你討論了嘛如果張景深政委可以再明確一點說哪些人是反對高鐵"},{"start":415.006,"end":436.684,"text":"宜蘭案我覺得或許可以再來討論但他沒有講得很清楚這我不曉得他所謂的史詩級的災難我想是不是史詩級的災難這個有點形容詞啦這是形容詞再來針對他所說的那個內容我看報導的說法一他所說的金額很像說錯了不是4000億是3500多億"},{"start":439.807,"end":467.547,"text":"第二他的公里數也說錯了他說只有40公里其實是60公里我不曉得他所說的依據是什麼但我建議因為交通是很專業的討論跟評估政府不會亂花錢就是因為交通是專業的討論跟評估所以才會看到說連民進黨任內的高官不管是政委或是交通部長曾經擔任都會跳出來反對"},{"start":468.408,"end":484.836,"text":"那就代表說這樣子一個討論其實是連民進黨內部都沒有辦法說服自己的那如果說連民進黨政府過去擔任高官的人都沒有辦法說服自己你很難能夠讓人民放心是說這樣子的一個工程會不會能夠達到你原本預計的效果"},{"start":485.396,"end":510.19,"text":"我想這就是現在的癥結點報告員這其實經過了最後當然還是要交通部來去做一個拍板或說你們做出的不管可行性評估綜合規劃等等來後續的研議但更重要的是為什麼會現在一個建設出來之後反而會讓很多人而且重點我一直強調這一些並不是在野黨他們過去都是你在擔任民進黨政府時候的高官來"},{"start":513.168,"end":542.144,"text":"因為今天還是要討論觀光我還是就叫一下觀光啦來兩位這個局長跟董事長可以先請回來觀光署署長本席在三個月前討論交通委員會的時候討論我們所謂觀光逆差那時候我就已經有提醒過就今年看起來有可能會突破觀光逆差破千萬那那個時候我也一直一而再再提醒是說你的觀光報告真的不要粉飾太平要看到我們現在的問題"},{"start":543.342,"end":562.899,"text":"但很顯然的我覺得現在跟民眾感受差很多我就先救教一下我們在這一次公布出來所謂的這個觀光國旅的產值2024因為現在我們只有統計到2024年嘛113年嘛對不對國旅產值我們現在全年有多少"},{"start":569.98,"end":585.357,"text":"目前 前年 觀光署的非常華麗的報告 華麗的數據5158 這是1月到9月的部分113年 5158億多少人次 多少旅次"},{"start":598.554,"end":616.707,"text":"2.2 2.2 2.2億2.2億屢次怎麼算的國人會很訝異啊因為你講是說這個產值跟屢次都屢創新高比疫情前都還要好那國人就會好奇啊明明跟我們大家的感受不一樣國屢感覺是比較冷門國屢是相對來講比較弱勢而且現在觀光利差破千萬那你怎麼算出來說有2.2億屢次屢次怎麼算的"},{"start":620.532,"end":646.092,"text":"這個因為長時間的調查所以我是不是請我們企劃組組長來跟大家說明因為那個真的很認真 您的定義是什麼組長 你真的對你的業務沒有那麼的純熟我只能這樣講你的屢次是個人為了觀光 休閒 商務等目的從日常生活地點到外地活動再返回原地算一次完整的旅程這叫屢次"},{"start":647.492,"end":656.385,"text":"所以你把觀光 休閒 商務等相關活動都變成履次那這樣就是會灌水 你知道嗎"},{"start":659.344,"end":672.531,"text":"來 我們今天的部會我知道有些部會都是外縣市對不對你今天外縣市的部會來立法院開會今天開完會之後再回你外縣市你也被觀光產值你也被觀光產值納入一個屢次這個是依照國際的統計標準而且是歷年來都是這樣子統計之前 部長之前並沒有這樣統計"},{"start":687.879,"end":700.754,"text":"屢次是 你們為了要現在部長 真的之前你沒有刻意去講這樣的一個數據你也沒有講這樣的一個產值其實數據都有 只是有沒有被凸顯出來部長"},{"start":704.625,"end":728.474,"text":"部長本席就是因為非常重視所以我才會說看到這樣的一個數字是不是我請觀光署您說過去沒有這樣的我請觀光署提出過去10年的數據給委員部長本席就是因為很重視這樣的數據而且重點在於是你的觀光逆差那個時候我們就提到了就說不要美化國旅的數字國旅現在有很多的問題但是它不能寫假的啊"},{"start":729.094,"end":753.826,"text":"當然不能寫假的但是你也不能去美化數據你也不能去你也不能去講是說部長你今天部長本席現在最重要在於是當國人大家都覺得是說我們的觀光有很大的問題我們都要努力的時候當我們觀光署居然拿出一個數據講是說這個是一個比疫情前還要好的一個數據五千多億全國華然啊"},{"start":755.387,"end":776.181,"text":"只有講是說我們什麼時候我們的國內觀光可以到五千多億然後就有兩億多次的屢次數據是依據事實不是依據感覺數據是依據事實所以我可以請報告署提出過去十年的數據就是因為依據事實本席才要在這邊再提出來就說這絕對不是一個觀光的屢次嘛"},{"start":777.165,"end":792.949,"text":"今天所有部會上來開會都可以算一個履次然後結果我們 來 我再請教平均每人消費多少錢2323元你的第一名是誰你的第一名是什麼項目參議"},{"start":799.861,"end":815.552,"text":"你第一名花費在餐飲最多第二名花費在交通最多那不就是一樣嗎你今天國人我所有我就不要講其他就部會首長來到立法院開會都可以算一個履次然後你部會首長來立法院吃便當也可以算成是我們觀光產值"},{"start":816.613,"end":845.261,"text":"報告委員觀光產值當然有五千多億但是有多少根本就是國人日常生活這個是主計總署所核定的這就是日常生活這根本就不是旅行產值過去到現在為止一直都是這麼統計方式部長如果說你真的要這樣講的話那我就必須要跟你很直接的講就是說這樣子的一個計算方法跟我們國人以及跟你所謂的觀光就完全落差太大這個我們可以來討論委員如果有更好的計算方法"},{"start":847.024,"end":875.107,"text":"連部會首長來立法院開會吃個便當都可以算到觀光產值的時候那我們到底我們的觀光可以有多少產量這才是重點啊你會覺得無奈本席更無奈國內的旅客更無奈國內的旅行社更無奈所有的民眾都覺得是說當我們的國旅已經變成是低迷的時候沒想到我們觀光署給我們的一個公開數據是五千多億創新高"},{"start":876.283,"end":883.385,"text":"那生活在什麼地方啊平清時空所以本席才會講是說我們要針對問題我們要針對問題來解決問題並不是美化數字是沒有錯這個我接受謝謝謝謝侯孟楷召委交通委員會啊是史詩級"}]}},{"id":"167321","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167321","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a888804748968b746276bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b47990b0cb07845b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"09:10:33 - 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謝謝主席這次本人針對發展觀光條例66條之一提出修法最主要的原因是新北市議會在去年提出了新北市天真之日條例的一個法案的擬定"},{"start":15.129,"end":34.836,"text":"那送來中央審議的時候在內政部以及法務部的同仁都認定這樣子的一個裡面自治條例裡面的一個收費他不屬於規費而是屬於特別功課而在特別功課裡面他就必須要有一個母法的一個支持那也就是我今天提出這一次的修訂的一個最主要的一個原因"},{"start":35.336,"end":56.914,"text":"那修法的一個精神就在於大家都知道現在使用者付費大家都越來越有這樣子的一個觀念但是規費跟特別功課的差別在於規費它是一個大水庫的一個理論那特別功課它比較有專款專用的一個性質它能夠針對特別的一個行為來設立一個特別的一個來收入特別的預算來做這個"},{"start":58.815,"end":75.933,"text":"特定的一個支出那也就是說我們在想像一個如果說我們在做觀光發展的時候天然發展的時候那他勢必大家過去常常提的一些環保或者是人民財產損失的一些問題的時候他可以利用這一筆特別功課的一個基金來做特定的支出而不是說這筆觀光的一個發展的費用他後續產生的一些額外的"},{"start":81.518,"end":108.84,"text":"外部成本是由全體的納稅人用共和的稅收來支應我想這是對於全體的納稅人也有稍微不公平的地方因此這次提出這次的修法希望說在地方發展觀光的同時地方政府也必須朝永續發展的角度來邁進當我們要永續發展的時候就必須要針對我們的環境或者是產生的第三方成本的時候或產生公害的時候政府也要"},{"start":109.8,"end":130.072,"text":"專門的預算來應付這些支出那反這次的修法是針對新北市的天然自治條例來提出一個母法的支持那當然我相信這樣的一個法令的制定未來不會只有新北市天然自治條例會適用到而是各地的觀光產業都可以因應他們當地因地制宜所產生的一些自己本身發現的問題來訂定自治條例來永續各地方的觀光發展以上"}]}},{"id":"167320","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167320","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a885831eae667870c1b6bf384bcbb560abaef4d1ce49928203b47990b0cb07845b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:06:23 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主席各位同仁以及我們在場的政府官員感謝本期提案修法發展觀光條例的部分條文其實是在現在台灣觀光正面臨關鍵的轉型期經營形態越來越多元的情況現行法規應該要與時俱進才能落實永續發展跟保障顧客與旅客的權益也因此幾個部分要跟大家緊要說明第一 我們希望能夠讓增進觀光的內涵"},{"start":29.508,"end":57.744,"text":"把觀光工廠過去一直都是被經濟部工廠法所下管理但是我們全台灣100多個觀光工廠其實觀光才是重點而能夠讓大家有更進一步的觀光內涵這才是我們希望能夠推廣的一個地方也因此在修法的內容裡面第二條把觀光工廠也納入觀光地區裡面讓中央主管機關能夠來評估同意提供"},{"start":58.785,"end":64.146,"text":"觀光旅客來所謂的觀光地區二 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謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167329","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167329","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8870eae5b38afff71452fd623850d83d5bef4d1ce49928203b1257d1c12132fb9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:55:15 - 11:07:58","影片長度":"00:12:43","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 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請時部長"},{"start":11.4,"end":31.628,"text":"六點好 部長好 我要接續我們醫界很敬重我們的蘇清泉院長的問題你剛剛說醫師加班費免稅這件事你剛剛說很快會有好消息 什麼時候我們追蹤很久了 本來上次你跟我說今年就可以用了 那到底是什麼時候"},{"start":32.388,"end":60.644,"text":"因為當然我們要釐清像剛剛這個蘇委員特別提到有的是加班有的是值班啦其實簡單講就是有正常工時制的跟輪班制的等一下部長怎麼說什麼時候有這個好消息啊應該你什麼時候公佈然後你們協調怎麼樣下個月我們大概協調的還有一次會議還有一次再一次就沒確定了嗎最後就拍板了再一次會議就拍板了所以最快是什麼時候會有定案"},{"start":61.945,"end":75.541,"text":"2月農曆年前可不可以給一個好消息農曆年前你要這個對不對我們在講今天急診的像血汗醫護你要在農曆年前給大家一個小紅包吧過年以前我們發個函啦"},{"start":78.095,"end":93.381,"text":"過年前發函我們趕一下看看我們發函好過年前可以發函喔我今天的質詢這樣子就有一個有一個成果好那部長再來我要再剛這題剛這題你答應了喔過年前發函好"},{"start":95.041,"end":119.788,"text":"那再來就是我要問一下部長現在有這個多重病毒傳播國際化的問題那這個當然最近這個世界上動盪很大那部長美國的衛生部長小羅伯·甘奈迪他說基於世衛與COVID-19的這個疫情期間的失職表現美國已經正式要退出WHO"},{"start":121.249,"end":147.434,"text":"那他的副部長O'Neill又說WHO忽視台灣在2019年對於COVID-19的早期示警陷入官僚主義利益衝突以及國際的權力政治但是世衛的專家范科霍夫卻說O'Neill所說的完全不實他又說台灣並未警告世衛那台灣是在同一天向世衛"},{"start":149.054,"end":157.545,"text":"這個索取資訊那是會沒有忽視台灣那我也注意到我們陳時中政委有反駁說台灣雖然沒有明確的說出"},{"start":158.98,"end":182.88,"text":"會人傳人但是強調非典肺炎的特性且這個病患呢均隔離治療強烈的暗示人傳人的可能性那我想要請問一下部長台灣有確實依照國際衛生條例IHR的第六條通報世衛但為何會出現這樣的資訊落差那我也有去看了一下這個IHR的條文跟附件"},{"start":183.44,"end":201.91,"text":"通報的條文和適用的決策文件的實例的確不需要指名說人傳人那就是要問一下部長現在美國要正式退出WHO那也打算成立新的國際衛生體系那我們未來會參加美國新成立的衛生體系嗎"},{"start":202.83,"end":229.94,"text":"好 跟委員說明有關於當時候的通報2020年4月的時候指揮中心特別把當時候我們CDC發給衛生組織的那一個英文信公開給大家看上面明確的提到那麼有幾例的有7例的artipical pneumonia就是不典型肺炎的發生同時正在接受isolated treatment就是隔離的治療"},{"start":230.74,"end":256.066,"text":"所以這已經很明顯的暗示這是一個不尋常的可能有人傳人感染的風險所以當時候可惜的是WHO忽略了台灣的這封信沒有及時的反映出說這個可能是一個人傳人的非典型肺炎所以確實我覺得美國次長所言是正確的"},{"start":256.986,"end":273.691,"text":"那麼至於說美國退出WHO我想對WHO的衝擊可能遠比對台灣的衝擊更大但是WHO仍然是目前重要的國際公共衛生醫療上面的一個"},{"start":274.591,"end":297.867,"text":"平台所以我們還是希望積極的爭取那麼參加那麼積極的參與活動那未來如果美國成立有另外的這個公共衛生的國際平台當然我們也會去積極的爭取加入那麼總是希望這個病毒或傳染病是沒有國界的所以意思就是說我們也會去爭取加入啦會"},{"start":298.948,"end":317.786,"text":"因為我也是在想說你剛剛的答案就是說兩個你們都還是要持續的參與因為我剛剛也是的確我是覺得說因為過去年年編預算你們發新聞稿說要爭取加入WHO可是其實剛剛你說的對WHO衝擊很大這個美國是帶頭大哥他都跑走了"},{"start":318.447,"end":341.723,"text":"那這個組織的資源大幅縮水所以我剛剛也是很想要問一下說那我們現在到底怎麼辦所以你現在一直說我們兩邊還是要持續爭取對好所以我想這個部分我們要拜託你要持續的追蹤希望可以持續的這個爭取實質的有意義的參與這些國際組織好再來我想要問一下"},{"start":346.667,"end":359.478,"text":"部長我們也可以看到台灣的現況現在台積電為主的相關產業鏈和最優秀的人才最充裕的資金都向美輸出但是根據台大醫院的研究以往在台灣極為罕見的這個"},{"start":362.816,"end":378.406,"text":"求黴菌症尤其在這個高風險族群如免疫力低下的相關的族群都可能會發生嚴重的肺部或這個擴散性的感染那在2021年前的我們我國只有一例"},{"start":378.986,"end":394.037,"text":"但是最近這兩年它增加了12例也就是增加了變多了而且所有的病例都曾經赴美國的亞利桑那州跟加州那其中有六成從事半導體相關的產業它的這個趨勢跟台灣半導體去亞利桑那州的擴張持續有點蠻吻合的所以"},{"start":402.703,"end":418.166,"text":"這個患者多半雖然目前是這個所謂的輕微啦或感冒啦或者是肺炎但是如果是免疫力差的就會變重症喔那針對這波的病毒患人才的公共衛生逆差那衛福部除了加強監測有沒有什麼具體的"},{"start":419.608,"end":436.466,"text":"邊境的這個風險管控的方案那有沒有針對這部分的高風險的地區返台人才建立專屬的這個指引或者是通報的SOP或者像宣導這個立百病毒一樣加強宣導前往該地區的旅客應該注意的事項是"},{"start":437.327,"end":459.959,"text":"是跟委員說明確實如同我剛剛提到病毒或者是傳染病是沒有國界的而且隨著這個人員移動的頻繁它就會造成這個疾病的這個散播啦那所以這個加強監測都是我們CDC一直在做的事情那這個監測不只是監測國內也要監測全球發生的這個"},{"start":465.201,"end":475.892,"text":"變化統統要納入所以像立白病毒也是一樣雖然國內至今沒有驗出任何一例或者任何的確診病例可是因為國際有這個狀況為了強化這個通報監測及時察覺所以我們才會去預告說把它列為第五類傳染病那這個我們也會評估講到講的就是針對這一塊"},{"start":488.224,"end":515.118,"text":"因為時間有限 我就是要提醒部長這塊你可能也要去注意 監控一下趕快去做相關的這個這個宣導 是 對不對那另外就是除了這個球黴菌症之外類似的傳播途徑啊跟這個各類的變種病毒的也是很多啦所以包含著你們有監測的這個中國大陸目前的鼻病毒那它的還有流感疫情都處於高點啦那國內也出現首例"},{"start":516.116,"end":529.532,"text":"這個俗稱這個蘋果病的B19的微小病毒那它會併發這個心肌炎那也有這個個案甚至我們台中有名女童忽然在跟家人出遊的時候她就大叫一聲她就猝死了所以"},{"start":531.654,"end":556.763,"text":"我想這個很多人都人心惶惶啦那所以大家會這麼害怕的原因主要是因為目前這個B19病毒他好像沒有疫苗也沒有特效藥嘛那會併發心肌炎的死亡率也高達30%所以現在面對這個春節返鄉草基層診所有沒有配備足夠的這種快篩啦或是診斷的試劑或是還是要等到他們必須送到這個醫學中心才可以確診"},{"start":558.619,"end":584.285,"text":"當然有一些比較罕見的病確實這個只能是提高警覺那適時的要要後送因為這個經驗的累積還是重要的所以我們會去強化所以我們有這個醫界通函經常會去提醒這個所有的第一線的人員注意那有發覺的時候就要通報後送這個還是有需要大概不太可能說這個"},{"start":586.067,"end":590.234,"text":"這些病都在第一線就完全治療大概我們是強化這個體系之間的這個轉診這樣好"},{"start":595.748,"end":616.547,"text":"那這個部分也是要提醒一下部長那另外就是剛剛最後因為其實今天題目蠻多的最後一天不過我最後還是問一下你們的這個APP你們現在去年的春節的急診用賽的產況我想大家今天都很關注那你們預估急診人次也是平日的1.5倍到1.7倍左右"},{"start":617.248,"end":628.822,"text":"那你們宣稱你們專案有七大監測指標那也針對這次的這個緊急醫療管理資訊系統的部分我想要問說你們有經過相關的壓力測試嗎因為你們每一秒可能都有幾萬筆的資料要更新等等的那你們可不可以承諾說到時候"},{"start":636.751,"end":648.984,"text":"這個APP是不會當機不會延遲那另外你們更新是30分鐘有落差喔我在想因為很多就醫是很很緊急的狀況有沒有辦法做到10分鐘內更新等等的"},{"start":650.854,"end":671.389,"text":"那個EMIS的更新那個我們是跟醫院的資訊系統直接串接的所以它的更新我記得是兩分鐘幾分鐘我先補充一下就是說我們分兩塊一塊是民眾這邊就醫的是健保的那個健保快醫"},{"start":672.31,"end":687.607,"text":"然後那我們的那個在跟醫院接接的時候我們是那個急救責任是200多家醫院所以我們其實從1月12號之後其實就開始做所謂的壓力測試就是他們上傳資料然後那因為這個資料目前是手動的"},{"start":688.268,"end":714.742,"text":"目前是手動的所以他更新速度沒有辦法那麼快可是我們在這個調整過程當中如果要做自動化的話其實大概委員講的那個剛剛我們部長講的是已經自動化的他大概就可以做到就是那個10分鐘內絕對可以做update完現在是因為那個指標部分還在做標準化所以這個地方上面的那個更新的速度就沒那麼快指標還沒有那麼快嗎對指標還沒那麼快那什麼時候可以"},{"start":716.294,"end":742.257,"text":"就是你們打算什麼時候他可以就是你剛說手動的部分對手動的部分因為現在只有填數字所以也不會造成是說第一線同仁的困擾然後那預計就是這個春節完之後有一些東西因為我們的春節是這個大概就是七九天的假期嘛所以春節完之後最重要的是後面春節完通常才是急診用篩的一個"},{"start":743.178,"end":762.36,"text":"更恐怖的一個 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感謝主席 本席要請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長委員好 部長好 部長我們台南市的一個重大交通建設就是台南鐵路地下化 預計在今年底通測"},{"start":22.014,"end":45.404,"text":"部長好像明天要到台南去主持鐵路地下化的一個接軌儀式對 鋼軌的最後的接軌儀式所以我們地方非常期待這個台南的鐵路地下化對於台南未來的發展非常重要但是受到今年總預算"},{"start":46.801,"end":72.212,"text":"還沒有審查的影響那相關的預算如果沒有辦法動之會不會影響到今年底的通車報告委員確實我們今年的預算是超過去年所以在台南鐵路地下化確實會有預算上面的影響但是通車的部分我們目前還是朝年底之前通車這個目標在努力當中"},{"start":73.188,"end":100.805,"text":"因為他的台南鐵路地下化的中間補助款是由前瞻的預算移編到部裡面來的好那我給你看幾個數字第一個他在去年大概是有編了178億多那今年我現在講的是你所有的鐵道捷運軌道的交通部的一個經費"},{"start":102.389,"end":107.383,"text":"那今年呢 是變了310億台南的也在裡面"},{"start":108.598,"end":134.844,"text":"那這筆預算就是交通部的鐵道還有捷運建設的計畫它包含了桃園桃園的鐵路地下化花東的鐵路雙軌電計畫嘉義市的鐵路高架嘉義縣市的跨縣市的鐵路高架還有台南市的鐵路地下化的計畫等等都在裡面那如果今年2026年的年度總預算沒有過這310億沒有過"},{"start":136.997,"end":142.57,"text":"那你依法大概就只能動之到一個上限就是去年預算的上限178億多是不是這樣是"},{"start":146.154,"end":168.249,"text":"也就是說如果總預算沒有通過的話那你今年只能執行你今年310億大概不到六成大概57%的預算就你比照去年最高的預算你是不是可以動這樣的額度對 報告委員就是差額會有到131億這麼多你有130億 你就沒辦法做那你原本的預算規模310億"},{"start":173.092,"end":201.846,"text":"結果你現在手裡面只有179億所以你就要做預算分配嘛 對不對那很簡單 你要怎麼分配這個影響到各縣市地方重大的交通建設所以這個在野黨不省總預算也害慘了地方啦這個是政治的惡鬥害死國家的發展各縣市的重大建設的發展"},{"start":202.93,"end":231.61,"text":"我在這裡要求部長是那你現在原本的年度預算規模今年310億結果你現在只能動之179億你就去挑啦凡是反對省總預算藍白立委的這個民眾黨沒有就國民黨立委的地方你就不要分配給他那你要不然桃園一塊錢都不要給他桃園哪個禮物都分對"},{"start":233.212,"end":261.872,"text":"總預算啊 花東也是啊這樣要分配嗎 要不然你怎麼分配 你告訴我報告委員 我們是希望每個縣市都不要被放棄啦那但是 各個地方的委員你沒有總預算 你就沒關係 你算了都不要放棄是 各個地方的委員自己也要想辦法來支持這個總預算不然真的會對他們的地方的建設會造成很重大的影響你應該跟地方的縣市長說啊跟投行的張三正說啊花東也是啊"},{"start":262.932,"end":286.498,"text":"啊你們的立委反對省總預算那我交通部今年怎麼 哪有錢補助你鐵道岸捷運的建設相關計畫是是你懂得優先補助像我們這幾期心中有什麼啊台南高雄嘉義這啊那我再請教部長啦我也要求部長啦不可以影響到台南連底通車的計畫"},{"start":288.973,"end":296.391,"text":"有沒有問題我們會盡全力盡全力來努力這個方向那你的全力是有沒有辦法不影響通車的計畫"},{"start":298.992,"end":325.501,"text":"應該是可以啦報告委員明天你要加應該啦明天要去要去做一定可以鋼軌的最後的這個先接我知道啦感謝啦但是預算真的是對我們影響相當相當的大不過我們交通部跟鐵道局會全力努力讓這個台南的鐵路地下化在今年年底來做通車的典禮你的你今年還可以動資大概179億台南市鐵路地下化占多少還有20億"},{"start":328.018,"end":353.304,"text":"你看沒問題吧對不對是是是我看那個人共同一體添頭啊所以不會影響到台南市的鐵路地下化的通車啦就算總預算沒有省好我們達成這樣我們達成這樣一個結論啦你共同比你比較比你比較有擔當耶人家共同都說可以你保證一體要省不用省啦對不對才20億嘛對不對"},{"start":355.464,"end":378.863,"text":"台南的六席立委都支持要省總預算你這個當然要優先給我們啊感謝台南的立委都支持總預算我們會優先來顧及台南鄉親的需求另外我再講一個這兩個都是關於應該跟交通部當然都是業務相關第一個我們國內的旅遊今天大家很關心"},{"start":380.103,"end":402.564,"text":"除了昂貴以外 還會產生一些亂象什麼昂貴啊 不只是吃喝的啦 一般都住那你說國旅貴啊 香貴的就是大你貴沒關係喔 那會產生一些奇奇怪怪的現象例如 現在的人出去借房 訂房一般都透過平台"},{"start":403.126,"end":425.578,"text":"對不對那你平台他有時候遇到廉價或者有重大假設你預訂了 你訂好了結果忽然間公佈說有什麼樣的一個大活動那就會出問題高雄因為演唱會經濟很成功BTS去高雄開演唱會平台就把所有訂房取消"},{"start":428.074,"end":453.392,"text":"平台也叫他在上面有房間的這些飯店先關房再漲價因為他知道這個活動辦了很多人會來對不對你如果這麼有平常的價格賣他覺得可以賺到多因為一個大活動到了大家一定會搶房那有沒有辦法管理"},{"start":455.471,"end":475.4,"text":"你連個公平台你沒辦法管理這個問題其實我以前質詢過了我說這些平台啊現在在在上面賣賣那個賣房間嗎他有很多在上面刊登廣告都是非法的旅宿你老婆都關了你老公先被平台沒落地那現在有沒有辦法管啊現在可以管嗎"},{"start":482.247,"end":508.898,"text":"來 市長 跟委員報告關於像那種惡意棄單的這個部分呢消費者如果遇到這樣的問題就直接跟當地的地方政府的消保官直接申訴那所以如果查證屬實他是可以罰三倍的這是第一個 第二個呢針對非法旅宿的部分呢在法官條例第55條跟51-1條也有只要是非法的部分我們最旅館業最高可以罰兩百萬民宿是最高可以罰一百萬"},{"start":510.178,"end":536.509,"text":"這個部分現在也要求他們在任何刊登廣告上面都要把自己合法的證據都放上來針對非法旅宿你講的嘛他在刊登非法旅宿他刊登廣告的行為他可以罰十萬到一百五十萬是那你有罰嗎一百五十萬最高你有罰嗎目前由地方政府去主責你有罰嗎在平台上刊登呢"},{"start":538.422,"end":548.708,"text":"我們這個是就個案去處理因為這部分就是有一方面就是另一個就是你觀光署有處罰嗎地方政府在做那個你要推給地方政府你觀光署有處罰嗎"},{"start":550.197,"end":574.057,"text":"因為這是全責的話如果說一般旅館跟民宿是地方政府在主責如果是觀光旅館是由我們來直接來開發非法觀光旅館全國都沒有人違規基本上是沒有非法的觀光旅館你在那個在那個平台上刊登的非法旅宿那有沒有要求平台不要讓他刊登"},{"start":575.991,"end":594.868,"text":"這個像我們平常就會請地方政府就要平常要巡查如果有的話就直接發行給他要求他撤撤下你要求誰撤要求OTA平台如果他是在平台上看到的話所以你現在可以管理OTA平台了OTA平台現在已經要求他要在台灣成立公司所以基本上已經可以納管了"},{"start":596.166,"end":611.059,"text":"台灣每一家平台都有落地嗎都有成立公司嗎在這一部分是有兩個方式來處理另外就是說我們那個地方政府會經過利用網路訊號平台大部分都沒有落地"},{"start":612.88,"end":638.976,"text":"國內的旅行社的這一部分全部都用旅行社來登記國內的平台的部分那如果說是不平台落地嗎所以國外的這個因為它是國際的國人大部分都在這幾個大的平台上訂的台灣前三大前五大的平台統統沒有落地啦國際的OTA是不是沒有落地是沒有落地那麼沒有落地什麼落地"},{"start":639.967,"end":660.079,"text":"你到底懂不懂的自己業務不懂得自己了解一下平台都沒有落地啦包括你部長你自己出席的時候你都用哪個網站你都用什麼店報告委員 我已經很久沒有訂房了你沒有訂房喔搞清楚好不好沒有啦 國際的平台目前還沒有落地"},{"start":661.045,"end":685.196,"text":"沒有完全落地但是國內的平台是有落地的但是沒有錯委員講得很正確大部分的國人是用國際的平台在使用你國內平台當然在台灣當然也落地怎麼會這樣講你講的很廢話問題大部分我們現在台灣一般旅客因為國內平台都不好用啦都不好用好啦我們報告委員我們召委再催我時間好了"},{"start":687.982,"end":714.195,"text":"你這個博文已經問了很多次因為發生的舊問都是這樣子啦然後你說他不可以惡意取消訂單他現在有見到投訴的是平台叫這些業者先關一開先取消訂單就先關起來啦然後再重新訂價先關房再訂價那你叫他找平台算賬嘛"},{"start":715.475,"end":728.744,"text":"對不對他就知道有一個大活動要到了那現在可以提高房價了所以大家都先把房間預訂關起來然後再提高定價所以這個就是平台管理的問題"},{"start":729.571,"end":749.866,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們有特別有召開會議跟縣市政府在針對這個做法去做加強舉例你們應該要求這個平台要落地啦到台灣賺錢也不落地也不繳稅好不好好現在部長謝謝謝謝林俊憲委員發言完畢我們先來休息"}]}},{"id":"167319","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167319","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88626c6db3f5ef7fe952fd623850d83d5b9da39f225449bb57f91eb0f286b10d555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"10:42:09 - 10:54:26","影片長度":"00:12:17","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 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謝謝主席 大家辛苦部長 請署長護睡署專門委員部長辛苦啦 醫院就像一條船每一個人都很重要"},{"start":30.427,"end":46.718,"text":"準定,大副、二副、準機長主崩也很重要這麼準,台北人主崩也沒人吃所以上升重要,不定大家都很重要醫院裡面有醫師有放射檢驗15個醫事相關人力"},{"start":57.165,"end":79.252,"text":"沒有說誰重要到不行但是婦理人員真的是很重要一個醫院婦理人力如果能夠搞定這個醫院差不多解這三分之二的事情所以保證得婦理界者得天下你把婦理搞定了你就可以出來選了來這是"},{"start":86.141,"end":104.38,"text":"急診室觀察床的護理點數,上面那個是703,那第二天開始629點喔,那是點不是圓,護理的費用來下一頁,這個是經濟病床,一天是819點"},{"start":107.76,"end":135.153,"text":"那有另外一個是734那如果一個婦女在那裡照顧10床就8190點但是是三班子喔三個人要搬喔所以搬下來一個人差不多兩千多那一個護理人員一個要上班上二十二天勞資法的規定所以一天兩千多二十二天差不多四萬幾個"},{"start":137.093,"end":149.879,"text":"ICU的,我昨天給他查了一下,他一天的護理費ICU,這裡面沒有ICU,沒有,沒有都出出來ICU三千九百幾點,有的是四千幾點但是ICU是一個護士夠兩層"},{"start":153.14,"end":178.627,"text":"所以兩成都要八千多 也三萬多 也兩千多元所以一個人差不多四萬多 失了喔這四萬多還要含他的退休準備金什麼什麼所以是遠遠不足啦 所以癥結就出在這裡啦處理說你們核定的點數太低嘛沒有啦沒有對不對委員你做完議長做清楚"},{"start":181.038,"end":202.945,"text":"不是這樣算啦因為我們還有很多的儲置費裡面都有人力費用啦所以放一個鼻胃管有一個費用啦所以這個護理費是基本的當然我們要調我們連續去年調25億今年還會再調25億所以我們四年會打算調100億都給護理費啦"},{"start":206.004,"end":219.458,"text":"把它調起來啊但是其他的費用在調的時候裡面也包含人力費用啦在ICU最明顯啦ICU會有很多處置裡面都有護理人員執行的費用所以不是把護理費這條啦啊你一個企業裡面有"},{"start":223.263,"end":242.755,"text":"清潔的有電力的有什麼東西都在裡面那個另外一筆是訂房費所以我要跟部長報告就是癥結點就在這裡昨天某一個醫學中心的院長跟我講他們的N1他們一年已經給他86萬"},{"start":245.7,"end":264.437,"text":"年薪啦,這付不去嘛,但是平時也是拿其他地方來賺,你以前的部長,大家都叫人家按來切去,因為你什麼都做過,你夫妻急診直接做,幼稚園直接做到急診,做到什麼什麼公務,你都做了"},{"start":267.076,"end":293.806,"text":"你想知道這個問題是出在哪裡所以你剛剛講的我們很欣慰啦那對於中華民國在第一線執行婦女的工作人員19萬人嘛那領召的30萬人我們對於在第一線執行的人我們都對他們非常的致敬跟最高的謝意啦台灣的健保能夠"},{"start":295.271,"end":310.208,"text":"世界第一名台灣的國民平均壽命能夠一年一年增加最大的貢獻者是護理人員因為一個病人跟護理人員接觸的時間是超過所有醫事人員瞎起來"},{"start":311.574,"end":328.345,"text":"有統計 差不多一個月兩次要跟病人差不多半個月八十個時間都跟護理監管接觸其他的醫師相關的都是很短暫醫師也是占5%到7%的時間所以護理人員是真的是要好好的照顧那這個護病皮 這個是"},{"start":331.738,"end":350.954,"text":"你們也是往這個方向在挪念嘛 對不對雖然沒有入伐我為了跟從要入伐的事情提一個案被罵得要死不然我看人家沒人在美麗耶不錯耶你不錯 你都沒人在美麗耶所以你真的得婦女戒耶 你要得天下耶你講一下我聽你 你講一下你這樣問我也要怎麼講"},{"start":361.227,"end":375.624,"text":"其實跟委員報告確實那個剛剛講的護理費我們在調嘛去年調了25億今年還會再調連四年要一共調100億進來那這次調我們特別去扣合那個薪資的成長"},{"start":376.645,"end":393.747,"text":"所以不是調性去前就進去醫院的口袋啦是一定要搭配那個護理人員的薪資要調升我們會監測那個投保薪資所以我們看起來確實投保薪資去年年中12月跟前一年113年的投保薪資都有增加"},{"start":394.147,"end":414.59,"text":"沒有錯所以不會說我們只把護理費調升結果護理人員都沒有薪資的調整倒是我們很欣慰說大家有在做這方面的努力那我們會持續的來逐年逐年把它調升這個護理費的部分"},{"start":415.325,"end":438.22,"text":"至於偏鄉的部分我們現在是也在爭取公立醫院能夠讓醫護人員在偏鄉加急讓願意留在偏鄉的醫護人員因為多數偏鄉的地方都是公立醫院所以我們公立醫院爭取行政院的預算我知道也有一些醫院"},{"start":438.96,"end":457.997,"text":"是在偏鄉的私立醫院,我們更敬佩所以我們來看看有什麼方式來一起協助你會主動講到偏鄉,我很佩服你三地離島、偏鄉這個真的,我們在做第一線我做第一線重生,我感觸想最深"},{"start":459.338,"end":478.129,"text":"租會區裡面醫院大部分都比較正常租會區裡面的人他們的保險也多個人現金保險也多所以他們對於醫療的給付醫療額外支出他們都沒問題整咖吃飯都沒問題啊 大家說要吃土啊他還有負的錢啊 偏鄉的衣服呢金門就找不到 金門就欠"},{"start":486.223,"end":494.31,"text":"不然你看恆春半島,你如果在那裡不久以後,那點就找不到人了,所以這點最重要"},{"start":496.511,"end":520.498,"text":"剛才說得富你得天下,偏香港搞定了你也可以得天下所以我現在都給你幾點名錄,你要去選都沒問題來,下一張這個春節這個剛剛你也講很多了啦所以我覺得這個錢一定一定一定會回饋給所有的人力"},{"start":521.776,"end":544.221,"text":"錢最好是落到員工的口袋最好啦其他的都不重要現在最重要就是讓他們能夠有實質的回饋那你說80%多回饋給第一線嘛對不對對那這個可以這個很簡單啊你就看幾個三人三人的身份證資料回報回來一審查就知道了嘛那很簡單的啦對"},{"start":545.137,"end":562.058,"text":"健保署什麼都不要,這最厲害啦所以我對這個我一點都不擔心我們現在醫院真的大家都很戰戰兢兢雖然是很辛苦,大家忙很久"},{"start":565.046,"end":569.568,"text":"對醫療院所要聽受啦,對醫務人員要聽受啦,很感謝的,沒有那種鼓勵我告訴你最近,我們屏東某醫院,其實沒有藏人住耶用坐的也坐到年齡,反正是騎在吊墊上用手騎耶,這樣有誇張嗎?藏本不進去耶,所以"},{"start":589.676,"end":600.969,"text":"這個都要持續的關注啦都會區的醫院就好好的合而營造他的環境他就會做得很好了啦好來最後一個我們護睡署"},{"start":605.768,"end":629.703,"text":"我三天前,我找你們署長,我說這說得怎麼樣?補典給我答應,補典跟你們財政部部長答應,說年底要改革,醫生的加班費、值班費,結果現在怎麼樣?陳時中次政委也出來協調,他跟我說,這個案已經上議,行政院院長要回答,有沒有?補典說沒有。"},{"start":638.508,"end":648.42,"text":"我們一直在跟負稅署財政部跟還有人總大家都在討論所以差不多共識差不多了"},{"start":648.86,"end":677.108,"text":"我們應該在這個二月的時候我們就會發一個這個函給財政部來做這個未來這個醫師在加班費的這個認定跟他施用 加班跟施班啦對 加班跟施班 醫生已經十五年不夠新歲了耶我知道 知道十五年都沒頂檔了耶所以現在這個誘人啊 遭料料耶現在這個重症醫師傳播門的醫生都早早一開業"},{"start":678.667,"end":698.423,"text":"我那天有跟負稅署說開業地也要處理,看要怎麼處理但是醫院這邊加班費、值班費,川普總統你看他笑笑,但是他說加班費免稅我覺得這真的不夠大家人,跟他說一戰加班費、值班費還有小費"},{"start":699.824,"end":723.11,"text":"免費 免稅啊所以不然你把人家帶去這樣我這間種族診院我還可以幫你忙喔沒關係 不行不行這樣這個一定要解決啊不然的話越來越嚴重很快會有好消息長庚醫院 亭口長庚五個GS醫師一幫肝臟外科醫師最近三個跑去診所這像話嗎部長這個太嚴重了 好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"167318","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167318","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88525043bdec3dfc0f5ca6c4b86dd6b28f9da39f225449bb57dca8d0dceb804b035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:42:34 - 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士能够有机会去接触到你们的这些管道"},{"start":284.076,"end":290.72,"text":"好 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觀光署陳署長陳部長 陳署長委員部長早 署長早"},{"start":16.895,"end":36.365,"text":"今天這個主席安排了發展觀光條例的修法針對發展觀光條例本席有幾條條文要來進行這些修正那因為這個條文我本席今天就不講但是我講的跟這個條文多多少少有一點關係"},{"start":38.869,"end":51.726,"text":"我們都知道這個觀光對台灣的觀光而言這個不管是觀光的數字這個觀光產業的榮枯其實跟兩條軸線很大的關係一條就是英鎊 一條就是歐鎊"},{"start":53.308,"end":73.16,"text":"那看起來澳邦的部分就是在服務澳邦的這些旅行社等等看起來應該是狀況不差因為我們可以看得到包括從韓國的統計數據從日本的統計數字來看台灣人都變成人家的這個財神爺了"},{"start":74.776,"end":98.184,"text":"所以對我們的出國的旅客而言其實我們的狀態其實是相當不錯的但是反過來來台灣的旅客看起來狀況還有很大的努力空間那當然在台灣的旅行而言除了外國人來之外國旅也是很重要的一個部分"},{"start":99.502,"end":126.296,"text":"那其實這個是老生常談這個在交通委員會這麼長的時間我想每一個階段我們的國旅都面臨不同的挑戰那也曾經好過但現在此刻的狀態看起來是不好那這個不好呢其實我沒有辦法給你標準答案但我覺得觀光研訓院要成立之後我認為觀光研訓院應該給大家答案"},{"start":127.096,"end":147.575,"text":"什麼意思呢 譬如說現在我認為很不利的你在所有的社群平台上你都可以去發現這個有錢人出國有錢人留在台灣 窮人出國那這個意思就是要告訴大家說國旅是比出國更貴的旅行"},{"start":148.683,"end":173.246,"text":"那這個已經是既定印象你只要看在社群平台上你只要PO這種文的下面大概都留言量那一則的PO文流量都特別的大那下面的PO文都可以看出來大家看起來多數是同意這種說法所以這個其實是一個既定的刻板印象而且這個刻板印象對國旅是非常不利的所以"},{"start":174.414,"end":203.883,"text":"交通部或觀光署要怎麼去扭轉這個刻板印象我認為這個其實是很關鍵的那這個刻板印象源自於哪裡源自於大家會覺得譬如說國旅的飯店國旅的這個旅宿很貴那更源頭可能從墾丁開始更源頭可能從墾丁開始那這個就是過去本席一直在提到對於觀光飯店有貴有中價位也有便宜"},{"start":204.741,"end":223.343,"text":"可是大家會普遍沒有特別在數據上做管理的印象也就是只要網路有人PO一張很個案型的照片 個案的案例說你看 食物這個一點點什麼東西 夜市買來的什麼東西就要多少錢"},{"start":224.801,"end":250.862,"text":"拍了一張房間的照片然後就告訴大家你看我花了多少錢然後下面就一大堆留言說你這個錢我已經可以去Okinawa我已經可以去日本了其實就這樣 那個案我不是說PO的人不對啦我的意思只是告訴你們說或許那一個PO的人是對的他也無心要打擊誰只是作為一個消費者他覺得這樣很貴可是這個一個個案就會變成久而久之就會變成普遍的現象"},{"start":251.994,"end":275.202,"text":"那觀光署的重點在哪裡當然啦 有人賣得很貴然後貴跟便宜又有個人感受的問題又有他其他周邊服務到底含不含瓜在這個價格裡面可是久而久之大家就會普遍覺得都是這麼貴所以什麼叫數字管理就是資料的收集對觀光署而言到底每一個"},{"start":276.716,"end":287.706,"text":"國旅重點時刻到來每一個地區它的訂房狀況中價位 價位到哪裡高價位 價位到哪裡低價位 平均房價到底在哪裡"},{"start":288.723,"end":310.864,"text":"其實這個對消費者而言就是最好去對抗個案因為統計數據我們不會有啊而且對觀光署而言或許你也不夠及時啊你或許自己也對這個資訊的掌握也不足啊所以我只是提供一個就以科學的數據統計數據來面對我們國旅很多的消費者的個案"},{"start":312.285,"end":332.193,"text":"這樣才有辦法跟大家跟社會說明你不說明長期一個個案一個個案累積最後就約定署程最後就形成刻板印象最後就是告訴大家有錢的人才能留在台灣國旅窮人最好出國因為出國比較便宜但事實上出國真的比較便宜嗎"},{"start":333.716,"end":359.488,"text":"這個也要看地區 看時間要看他要求的服務品質來論斷所以我想全世界都是如此台灣有台灣的好 國外有國外的好這個沒有辦法 蘋果跟橘子是沒有辦法放在同一個天平來比較但為什麼會被台灣的國旅會變成被污名化這麼嚴重我覺得這個是觀光署真的要認真去思考那接下來你又有光源訓練院的成立"},{"start":360.31,"end":381.369,"text":"所以公園心願對於這樣的問題到底要怎麼解方是什麼我提的只有一個你這數字的公佈就客觀數字的統計公佈讓大家的預期可以怎麼去處理他接下來的旅行到底要出國還是要留在台灣這個可控部長跟署長你們覺得呢"},{"start":382.606,"end":407.569,"text":"報告員您剛剛的那個建議我剛剛也跟署長講您上一頁的那個建議應該要把它拿下來好好來討論一下真的是應該各種數據都讓民眾能夠接觸的到能夠理解的到這個是比較持平的方式才不會大家用刻板的印象去對國旅有不好的一些想法所以部長你是支持所以我們應該集結不只是我建議這一項"},{"start":409.15,"end":436.127,"text":"在署裡面有那麼多的優秀的文官你們應該要認真去思考面對到底國旅是什麼因為不能只在知緯末節啦這個補助一下那個辦個活動 放個煙火其實這個在結構上我覺得現在國旅是很不利的那個刻板印象是非常深刻強烈的那第二個啊像我都覺得像署長你曉得齁我看了一個東西我就覺得很有趣啦齁"},{"start":437.557,"end":455.767,"text":"我們的環境部在推綠色旅遊網頁你有看到這個環境部的這個活動嗎你曉得這個活動嗎 觀光署曉得嗎署長或者其他同仁曉得嗎環境部有在推綠色旅遊網頁"},{"start":457.859,"end":474.149,"text":"我們跟環境部一直有保持跟綠色旅遊的這塊的一些合作跟聯繫一直都有好 那其實如果這分兩個層次現在看起來觀光署是知道的那我的意思就是說觀光署竟然知道觀光署對於"},{"start":476.023,"end":495.18,"text":"環保標章的環境部認證環保標章旅行社有26家嘛其實占比很低啦連1%都不到只有0.6而已那它裡面去區分嘛它列了一些條件然後列了一些旅行該具備什麼什麼然後給你什麼叫做金級銀級銅級這樣加起來總共只有26家"},{"start":497.284,"end":523.362,"text":"那如果大家因為我看到了新的修法也提到行政院也提到叫永續觀光環境部現在在做的透過環保標章的旅行社推這個綠色旅遊觀光署你們覺得這件事情讓環境部在推綠色旅遊你覺得這個合理嗎或者說這個認證你們要不要跟環境部好好討論一下這個認證是什麼"},{"start":525.049,"end":553.758,"text":"跟委員報告委員觀察的確實是事實但是現在其實不是只有環境部在推綠色旅遊各部會都在推綠色旅遊因為就是現在的顯學那署長那我作為一個旅行社或者觀光飯店那我到底要申跟你中華民國政府申請多少的認證標章因為你說各部會都在推嘛所以我環境部要申請一次我觀光署要申請一次我不知道還有其他哪一個部也在推啦"},{"start":554.358,"end":560.228,"text":"那我到底我要怎麼證明我是國家認證我是永續旅遊綠色旅遊或者什麼旅遊"},{"start":562.737,"end":588.996,"text":"這件事情現在也是我們跟環境部正在溝通的地方我們能推的是綠色旅遊但是呢 標章這件事情我們建議還是由環境部來處理大家才有一致的標準那現在 觀光署因為推的還是郵程嘛所以我們會再去集合一下各部會再推有關綠色旅遊的這個項目再集中起來好啦 我的意思就是說你們 觀光署 我講在交通委員會二十年來 太多的認證"},{"start":591.069,"end":615.905,"text":"太多的認證每一次認證一大堆的認證鼓勵業者來申請申請完之後他在市場上到底能不能創造現金流其實我都高度懷疑就像搞這個律師認證你看只有26家26家認證佔比0.6%在旅行社的佔比0.6%那好就算"},{"start":617.059,"end":636.65,"text":"我第一個問題是政府要不要統合不要讓大家到處在申請認證第二個 好 我申請認證完之後認證跟不認證到底有什麼差異業者很辛苦 經營很辛苦了國旅都已經這麼差了我還要花錢去認證認證完之後還接不到生意"},{"start":637.799,"end":661.321,"text":"所以當我們要辦一個認證第一個先整合你們先談好誰要來做這個認證第二個誰要來做這個行銷就是你要讓大家區隔說我很認真在推永續推綠色然後過了之後只要拿到認證於是乎我會吸引一大票的人讓大家知道我就是全台灣最綠色或者最永續的旅行社"},{"start":662.469,"end":687.605,"text":"你如果不做這個他只是又多一個認證標章又擾民 又讓業者要申請申請太少 公安署又沒有面子所以要趕快去督促大家趕快來申請不然我再編一個預算認證什麼補助什麼補助然後認證完之後其實也找不到生意署長 你懂我的意思啦部長 懂我的意思所以第一個 先做好整合第二個"},{"start":688.888,"end":710.155,"text":"把認證後面的整個行銷的規劃一併做好這樣不就不讓大家說你講故事大家又推什麼認證我就覺得很煩了啦業者都覺得很煩好不好最後一個啊部長那個我們持續在委員會裡面爭取台中機場的這個新的航線那我們很謝謝這個我們很謝謝這個星宇嘛在"},{"start":715.929,"end":735.042,"text":"這個夏季的航班裡面又多了這個東京跟熊本東京跟熊本那今年本期要推動建議的那麼多的新的航點還有沒有可能有其他的點因為時間很有限來簡單回答我就好"},{"start":735.878,"end":750.843,"text":"今年因為夏季班表冬季夏季班表3月剛剛委員講到這個那當然之前我們也再持續看看日本的部分還有沒有再新增的可能機會 現在機會很大你知道嗎中國因為不飛了 那個機場啊"},{"start":752.763,"end":779.925,"text":"運量就會下來下來就剛好台灣補進去這個時候不搶 機會很難東京每一個點都那麼熱那其實不只東京像東南亞也是像台中很多希望飛曼谷或者是像比較遠一點像雜黃 北海道這些其實都可以考慮 好不好那另外那個華信不要忘記你們答應我了 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主席各位同仁以及我們在場的政府官員感謝本期提案修法發展觀光條例的部分條文其實是在現在台灣觀光正面臨關鍵的轉型期經營形態越來越多元的情況現行法規應該要與時俱進才能落實永續發展跟保障顧客與旅客的權益也因此幾個部分要跟大家緊要說明第一 我們希望能夠讓增進觀光的內涵"},{"start":1975.481,"end":2003.714,"text":"把觀光工廠過去一直都是被經濟部工廠法所下管理但是我們全台灣100多個觀光工廠其實觀光才是重點而能夠讓大家有更進一步的觀光內涵這才是我們希望能夠推廣的一個地方也因此在修法的內容裡面第二條把觀光工廠也納入觀光地區裡面讓中央主管機關能夠來評估同意提供"},{"start":2004.755,"end":2010.134,"text":"觀光旅客來所謂的觀光地區二 落實數位治理"},{"start":2011.141,"end":2036.609,"text":"目前觀光統計資料都散落在各處缺乏明確的法源依據來整理也因此本席提案修正第六條希望民定中央主管機關有權請求提供統計資訊才能夠有完整的數據基礎以做後續的精準行銷把公共服務送到真正需要的地方再來我們提升行政彈性以及整合推廣"},{"start":2037.469,"end":2063.625,"text":"首先針對第十條有兩個部分調整一個是把風景特定區的管理組織修正為機關或是機構符合目前國家級風景區的管理處行政現況另外我們也希望把原有的福島修正為配合推廣觀光絕對不是單打獨鬥透過法規的引導讓各部會能夠有效的整合資源共同打響台灣觀光的品牌"},{"start":2064.125,"end":2080.209,"text":"以及最後是希望能夠保障旅客的權益31條裡面責任保險的部分實務上我們發現理賠往往需要旅行社協助參與提供參團的證明或是事故調查文件但是如果說業者消極的處理"},{"start":2081.21,"end":2104.511,"text":"旅客的理賠往往就會卡住過去也屢屢發生過類似的案例也因此特別增訂第五項明確要求旅行社如果說在觀光事故發生之後三個月內應該要向保險公司提出申請把這一項義務入法不要讓受害的旅客面對意外的時候還要因為程序的繁瑣而苦等不到賠償"},{"start":2105.686,"end":2118.368,"text":"最後本期也要為我們在場的廖縣長委員來再說一下他的增訂66條之一其實也是為我們新北市以及相關地區各縣市如果說有這個觀光"},{"start":2120.223,"end":2142.696,"text":"觀光發展的一個企圖能夠有做永續的基金的一個規劃的時候需要有母法跟子法的一個依據目前各縣市有些地方已經有做這個相關子法但缺乏母法的一個保障還是有摯愛難行之處也因此我們也希望配合不管是新北市不管是各縣市只要有意推動觀光"},{"start":2143.456,"end":2165.957,"text":"有意能夠提升觀光的一個內涵跟精進的話我想中央部會應該也要大力支持中央地方一條心才能共同的讓台灣觀光被世界看見這次的修法是建立更好的產業秩序更建立一個讓旅客安心業者有彈性的觀光環境後續審議的時候我們也希望"},{"start":2166.818,"end":2184.471,"text":"行政部門能夠開誠布公大家一條一條的針對專業來做好好的審查我們希望能夠讓台灣觀光建立更完善的法律基礎以上謝謝謝謝洪孟海召委說明完畢現在請廖先祥委員"},{"start":2196.361,"end":2212.169,"text":"主席 謝謝主席這次本人針對發展觀光條例66條之一提出修法最主要的原因是新北市議會在去年提出了新北市天生知識條例的一個這個法案的擬定那送來中央"},{"start":2213.21,"end":2238.152,"text":"在內政部以及法務部的同仁都認定這樣子的一個裡面自治條例裡面的一個收費他不屬於規費而是屬於特別功課而在特別功課裡面他就必須要有一個母法的一個支持那也就是我今天提出這一次的修訂的一個最主要的一個原因那修法的一個精神就在於大家都知道現在使用者付費大家都越來越有這樣子的一個觀念但是公"},{"start":2239.192,"end":2261.062,"text":"規費跟特別功課的差別在於規費他是一個大水庫的一個理論那特別功課他比較有專款專用的一個性質他能夠針對特別的一個行為來設立一個特別的一個來收入特別的預算來做這個特定的一個支出那也就是說我們在想像一個如果說我們在做公關發展的時候天然發展的時候那他"},{"start":2261.882,"end":2271.891,"text":"勢必大家過去常常提到一些環保或者是人民財產損失的一些問題的時候他可以利用這一筆特別功課的一個基金來做特應的支出而不是說這筆光光的一個發展的費用他後續產生了一些額外的"},{"start":2277.496,"end":2304.801,"text":"這個外部成本是由全體的納稅人用共和的稅收來支應我想這是對於全體的納稅人也有稍微不公平的地方因此這次提出這次的修法那希望說在地方發展觀光的同時地方政府也必須朝永續發展的角度來邁進當我們要永續發展的時候就必須要針對我們的環境或者是產生的第三方這個成本的時候或產生公害的時候政府也要"},{"start":2305.761,"end":2330.659,"text":"專門的預算來應付這些支出那反這次的修法是針對新北市的天然自治條例來提出一個母法的一個支持那當然我相信這樣的一個法令的制定未來不會只有新北市天然自治條例會適用到而是各地的觀光產業都可以因應他們當地因地制宜所產生的一些自己本身發現的問題來訂定自治條例來永續各地方的觀光發展以上好"},{"start":2334.264,"end":2339.411,"text":"謝謝廖先祥委員說明完畢現在請列席機關報告請交通部陳士凱部長報告"},{"start":2351.704,"end":2376.675,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生今天應邀至貴委員會就發展觀光條例草案以及一百一十五年度交通部以及所屬單位預算為省郡對桃園鐵路地下化花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市區鐵路高架化嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸台南市區鐵路地下化"},{"start":2377.755,"end":2397.165,"text":"觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫以及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響進行專案報告敬請各位委員指教本部為因應全球永續觀光趨勢以及友善觀光環境強化消費者權益優化觀光產業經營環境以協助"},{"start":2400.947,"end":2418.857,"text":"產業新立健全新興油氣管理並保護生態以及配合相關法令的變遷辦理通盤檢討並且研擬本條例的這個部分修正草案經行政院115年1月8號函請大院審議"},{"start":2422.898,"end":2445.517,"text":"令本部所屬一百一十五年度預算編列一千六百九十四億元各項預算均系配合本部業務推動核實編列為預算到目前為止並未審議新興計畫以及延續計畫新增的部分皆無法執行本次會議委員所關切的延續性計畫"},{"start":2450.421,"end":2465.416,"text":"因為只可以在於上年度的預算執行數或者是當年度的預算編列數兩者相較之下以較低者範圍合值來致用那預算的執行將會有所的局限"},{"start":2466.357,"end":2487.824,"text":"本部一百一十五年度延續性的支出較上年度的支出超過的部分有兩百四十八億目前看起來是無法來執行對於相關的鐵路建設以及觀光業務的推動影響甚巨懇請大院緊速交付審查以利各項工作順利的推動以上兩岸"},{"start":2488.604,"end":2503.109,"text":"我請觀光署陳署長以及本部會計處黃處長就其相關的內容重點向各位委員來報告敬請各位委員會與支持以及指教 謝謝來 請陳玉秀署長"},{"start":2515.437,"end":2534.094,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生今天應邀列席貴文會就行政院涵送大院審議的發展觀光條例部分條文的修正草案提出重點報告這次修正的重點包含了因應全球永續觀光趨勢及友善觀光環境"},{"start":2535.035,"end":2552.042,"text":"第二個是強化消費者權益第三個是優化觀光產業經營環境以協助產業的心力第四個是健全新興油氣管理並保護生態最後一個是配合相關法令的變遷總共20條修正了19條 更刪除1條那現行條例 現行大概77條修正後變76條"},{"start":2560.485,"end":2577.654,"text":"那另外是針對蔡維園 蔡其昌委員 賴委員 李昆澤委員還有洪孟凱委員 林慶琦委員跟鄭天才委員等等還有劉委員總共有八案提出本部建議處理的意見也供各位參裁"},{"start":2579.555,"end":2605.703,"text":"接下來是針對第一個項目因應全球永續觀光發展及友善觀光環境總共修正第一條 第六條第一項 第八條第一項及第十條第一條是針對修正我們剛剛上面提到的推展永續觀光友善觀光環境加速國家發展的立法目的第六條第一項是增電的觀光資訊取得的依據第八條是針對於"},{"start":2606.923,"end":2624.501,"text":"在增訂的中央主管機關得與機場及車站設置旅客服務機構及設施第十條是有提到將機構修正為機關跟機構那修正均配合主管機關辦理的觀光宣傳及推廣"},{"start":2625.502,"end":2648.857,"text":"第二个是强化消费者权益这个部分也是明定的旅行业者因与事故发生后三个月内向保险公司申请责任保险理赔那第43条第一款资历旅行业之保证金有备行政执行机关扣押或执行情势可由中央机关公告之"},{"start":2649.677,"end":2671.291,"text":"那第三大項是優化觀光產業經營環境以協助產業新力那修正第二條第11款第33條第42條第一項第48條第66條那在第二條第11款因觀光遊樂業經營型態之多元創新所以我們增列了及相關服務項目"},{"start":2672.652,"end":2694.328,"text":"第33條第66條也因為旅行業經營模式已經改變所以我們希望引進多元的人才需求刪除了旅行業經理人資格限制回歸到公司治理第42條第一項是簡化了暫停營業這行政程序第48條是增列旅行業為觀光產業優惠貸款的對象"},{"start":2698.427,"end":2718.055,"text":"第四大項是健全新興油氣管理並保護生態修正第63條、64條那63條是增列風景區或觀光地區內擅自放置器具並提高違規行為的法源並增列了清除跟沒入"},{"start":2719.298,"end":2742.912,"text":"那第六四條是增進風險區內跟觀光地區內其他動力的器具那比如說像沙灘車等動力並提高其違規的行為之法則那第五大項調合相關法規及完備法制修正的第十一條第二項第二十八條第四十七條五十八條六十九條第七十條並刪除第二十條"},{"start":2744.073,"end":2760.099,"text":"那這個部分的第11條第2項第47條呢都是增訂適用國土計畫法相關規定22條呢是針對已經古蹟有文化資產保存法所以不需要重複的規範的必要所以願意刪除第28條呢是"},{"start":2763.6,"end":2782.308,"text":"就是配合公司法已經廢除外國公司許可制度全部修正為外國旅行業者在我國事例分公司或辦事處的相關規定那第58條是將本條例授權訂定相關法規的依據予以明定"},{"start":2783.408,"end":2799.502,"text":"那第69條是因為是過度條款已於申請期限並且無保留的必要所以刪除第70條是為確保觀光旅館公共安全所以應依觀光旅館建築及設備標準辦理"},{"start":2801.724,"end":2824.385,"text":"那接下來報告有關委員們提案的修正重點及本部建議處理的意見那第一個是針對洪孟楷委員等二十人針對觀光工廠那剛剛特別委員特別提到那因為觀光工廠呢雖然是觀光的附加服務那但是因為他從事的還是屬於生產製造及加工本質是工廠"},{"start":2825.246,"end":2853.667,"text":"那經由是由經濟部依工廠管理輔導法來管理那管理權責的就是避免跌床駕屋所以我們希望管理權責還是在經濟部那這個部分一旦立法是在技術上面恐掛一漏萬那我們現在目前就是依照觀光地區基本上它還是有它的明定範圍所以我們是認為說不需要再額外列舉觀光工廠的必要"},{"start":2854.247,"end":2874.254,"text":"那現在目前觀光署跟經濟部也密切的合作整合觀光的資源像我們這個月也剛公佈的是像AO像AI小幫手或者是我們行動旅服都已經把觀光工廠都納入未來也可以一起做整合的行銷所以這個部分我們建議是維持現在的條文"},{"start":2875.074,"end":2900.676,"text":"那第二個是有關鄭天才委員提出來的將原住民保留地及山地管制區得以化設自然人文生態景觀地區刪除那我們考量到原住民的保留地山地管制區已經涵蓋了應受保護之自然動物動植物生態環境及重要史前的遺跡"},{"start":2902.077,"end":2911.511,"text":"那有化射自然人文景觀的必要例如像霧台自然人文生態景觀區所以本部建議是維持現行的條文"},{"start":2914.642,"end":2942.416,"text":"第三個提案是賴委員這邊的提案修正觀光工廠定義及刪除觀光旅館等級的區分那這個部分我們考量外界的觀感不要讓台灣就是讓外界覺得台灣不再有國際級的景觀所以修法後對現有業者的影響那我們建議維持國際觀光旅館跟一般觀光旅館的類別其實是較為妥適所以我們覺得不需要再"},{"start":2943.196,"end":2971.199,"text":"無需將觀光旅館建築及設備標準納入要件原以第21條第23條均無修正的必要建議維持現行的條文那第4個是牛西廷委員的提案旅宿訂房平台的服務業那旅宿訂房平台就是代定像OTA平台那針對主計總處行業統計分析它是屬於支援服務業"},{"start":2972.24,"end":2993.619,"text":"旅行及相关服务业设本条例属于旅行业的范畴那且国内的订房平台都已经依照公司法登记并领有旅行业营业执照所以本部也建议维持现行的条文那蔡企专委员呢等19人提案是增"},{"start":2994.52,"end":3019.316,"text":"新增第三條第二項本條例試射跨部會的權責實質處理方式那有助落實觀光主流化本部原則同意也尊重了委員審議的結果第六個是蔡啟昌等19名委員還有像賴委員20名就是多數委員都有提到這個部分有關中央主管機關的權責"},{"start":3020.977,"end":3044.429,"text":"那本條府經大院委員提案修正也已經在114年度4月2號修正公佈且交通部觀光署組織法已經明令觀光署全責本部也建議維持現行的條文那第七個是李昆澤委員等18人提案的項目就是有關行政院召開觀光產業發展匯報"},{"start":3047.69,"end":3058.458,"text":"那這個部分現在目前由行政院觀光產業振興諮詢會已經具備了跨部會的協調功能那目前有行政院副院長或者是政務員層級專責督導並協調各部會推動觀光相關的業務那我們也"},{"start":3064.842,"end":3091.954,"text":"已經有符合彈性政府跟組織精簡的現代治理的原則本部也建議無需要增訂最後一個是有關賴委員的第八個是賴委員提案有關旅行業一線請求事故責任保險給付的義務那委員基本上都是站在提升消費者權益之保護目的是一致的"},{"start":3094.426,"end":3116.907,"text":"所以這個部分我們盡量避免 就是請求全人於事故發生三個月後 使得直接向保險人請求保險給付之誤解所以原則上支持鄭委員的提案 那尊重委員的審議結果第九個是有關牛錫廷委員提案的是有關"},{"start":3120.976,"end":3138.633,"text":"旅宿资讯揭露义务及涨价比例那现行的法规已经有规范的旅宿业资讯揭露的义务已经明载了旅行旅馆业民宿之就是说目前他们都必须要载明旅行旅馆业跟民宿之登记的"},{"start":3140.094,"end":3168.568,"text":"正號編號那第二個呢是有關因為房價客房的房價須報請主管機關備查那業者報備的最高主管的公告價公告價呢在臺灣的旅宿網提供消費者查詢所以明年旅宿業收取房價不得高於備查的房價那為者可以可以處處罰一萬到五萬元所以眾上所述我們也建議說無需要再增訂"},{"start":3169.568,"end":3196.282,"text":"那第十項是由賴委員等二三人提案的是提高違規行為的罰原額度那這是屬於共通性的罰則那我們認為說違反本條之裁罰案件極為少數所以在實務的管理上並沒有看到困難或者是不足之處也符合責罰相當的原則所以本部建議維持現行的條文"},{"start":3198.323,"end":3211.182,"text":"那第十一條是牛委員 西庭等十六人提案的部分也是希望提高違規行為的法源額度那這個也是屬於共通性的法則"},{"start":3213.28,"end":3231.116,"text":"所以我們也看到說目前觀點上也比較沒有看到任何的困難或者是不足的地方所以如果以原最高的法則修正為修正後最低的法則可能有比例原則跟責罰相當的原則所以我們也是建議維持現行的條文"},{"start":3233.758,"end":3248.554,"text":"那廖先祥委員提案的有關在特定觀光活動或相關業者徵收觀光永續發展費並設立基金的法源依據那這個部分是希望增訂的觀光永續發展費"},{"start":3250.916,"end":3268.73,"text":"此在落實法原並落實觀光活動使用者付費其性質應屬規範法之使用規範現行法規也可以原引本條所規定的觀光活動因為比較沒有很明確的定義"},{"start":3269.631,"end":3290.802,"text":"比如說包含未來有可能像體育、宗教、生態活動跟文化活動都可能包含在內那如果說這個部分由交通部統一研議徵收管理的事宜難以因應多元的活動需求其亦跟目前各機關有的規費跟特別功課規範產生漢格甚至引發地方政府觀光活動"},{"start":3292.003,"end":3306.34,"text":"為民任意納入課費的徵印所以令本條永續觀光永續發展費呢用途基本上也包含了自然生態與環境的保育文化資產保存公共"},{"start":3307.981,"end":3327.031,"text":"公共安全的維護已經超過本條例的規範的範疇所以依照本條例授權地方政府訂定自治條例恐怕有逾越謀法的之餘所以依政策目的與地方現況因地制於訂定規範"},{"start":3328.312,"end":3345.73,"text":"我們認為還是比較允當那希望建議說不要 無需增訂那最後一個是賴委員提出來的有關觀光遊樂業設施之過渡條款那因為過渡條款的期限已經也過了所以本部原則上同意綜商說明"},{"start":3348.303,"end":3375.37,"text":"綜上說明行政院版本提出來的修正草案已經因應了永續觀光發展條例也藉此營造我們友善的觀光環境將永續觀光跟友善觀光環境納入那希望就此這個部分可以優化整個觀光產業的環境跟鬆綁心力的措施以達成2030年觀光產業兆元產值公政策的目標"},{"start":3377.391,"end":3393.281,"text":"以上請各位予以支持那也委員提出來的部分都是為了觀光產業發展有正向的政策目標那也非常感謝委員們的提案那以上僅就本部建議處理的建議呢也請委員們多採納 謝謝陳署長報告完畢現在請會計處黃處長"},{"start":3406.812,"end":3419.911,"text":"主席 各位委員先生女士 那個本次會議委員所關切的營運計畫 因為僅能在上年度預算執行數或者是當年度預算編列數較低者的範圍內核實之用"},{"start":3421.934,"end":3438.507,"text":"所以對我們相關的鐵路建設觀光業務推動產生重大的影響重點說明如下 意義是鐵道局的鐵道及捷運建設計畫115年度預算較上年度增加134億元主要是因桃園鐵路地下化 花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化"},{"start":3440.529,"end":3467.214,"text":"嘉義市區鐵路高架化及台南市區鐵路地下化等各項建設已進入工程施作高峰期且嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸建設亦陸續辦理工程發包施工 其需一約撥付各項工程款項 依然未能完成審議導致工程款項無法正常撥付嚴重影響後續工程施工及計畫延遲"},{"start":3468.954,"end":3484.296,"text":"尤其是已經施作的高風險工項 包括地下結構開挖 延續壁橋樑軌道曲線及基樁改善林軌側 擋土牆等工程恐因未能接續 衍生嚴重結構安全及施工品質疑慮"},{"start":3485.697,"end":3501.926,"text":"亦有違約私信與廠商 治理約正義等情形 影響企業推動 二 觀光署觀光雙輪驅動方案 本方案115年度編列35億元 旨在透過政策性引導擴大國旅及國際旅客來台市場 以帶動"},{"start":3503.227,"end":3517.339,"text":"內需市場及相關產業商機若未能如期115年及早啟動恐錯失活絡觀光市場之契機進而無法有效帶動旅宿餐飲及零售等相關成業發展"},{"start":3518.38,"end":3543.432,"text":"除外地方經濟活絡及削弱臺灣觀光產業國際競爭力3 本部對台鐵公司營運及安全改善協助115年度預算較上年度編列增加64億元主要是其為持續推協助台鐵公司強化安全作為辦理撥補台鐵營運虧損及提升行車安全作為之補貼台鐵積極支線基礎設施改善計畫"},{"start":3547.054,"end":3560.109,"text":"高鐵暫化站及台鐵轉成接駁計畫高雄機場潮州基地二期工程建設計畫及台鐵軌道結構安全提升計畫等預算未能完成審議將影響工程履約進度及計畫約定目標"},{"start":3562.711,"end":3579.839,"text":"而且恐造成台鐵財務負擔 進而影響行車安全及旅客服務品質本部115年度各項預算 據那實際業務需求核實編列 攸關施政延續性及計畫如期執行 懇請大院盡速交付審查 必力各項工作順利推動 謝謝其餘機關"},{"start":3590.615,"end":3613.494,"text":"所送書面報告均列入記錄 刊登公報現在開始進行詢答初期委員8分鐘 列席委員6分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有臨時提案 請於10點前提出"},{"start":3614.642,"end":3625.039,"text":"以便醫事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位洪孟楷召委發言"},{"start":3640.094,"end":3642.279,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長還有我們觀光署陳署長請陳部長及陳署長"},{"start":3653.682,"end":3669.948,"text":"部長好部長本席開宗明義先強調我認為說全台灣大家交通建設都應該要建立生活圈讓交通更方便這是我們共同目標交通沒有最好只有更好但是現在本席看到跟"},{"start":3671.144,"end":3699.458,"text":"交通部長跟前任部長我們賀承鄧部長也報導直接寫說前交長槓現任那期待公開的討論我不知道說這個陳部長你有沒有感覺到跟前任的部長有這個對槓隔空對槓的感覺完全沒這個感覺完全沒有但我感覺你們沒有在聚焦因為賀承鄧前部長他講的是所謂宜蘭高鐵的一個部分那也講到是說其實現在的鐵道局並沒有把"},{"start":3699.978,"end":3725.298,"text":"所謂的宜蘭直鐵台鐵的一個規劃納入這個評估考量所以可行性評估會變成是一個很龐大的一個建設但是可能偉大甩不掉而且並沒有辦法解決宜蘭人通勤或者是說往返台北的需求那不要說前部長跟現任部長互槓張景深前政委他在他的臉書你有沒有看"},{"start":3726.324,"end":3750.596,"text":"我沒有仔細看到你沒有看到臉書但是行政院院長說他每一篇的臉書都有看所以很顯然我們部長比院長還要更公務繁忙不過這也不是重點重點在於是說行政院院長就講是說我沒有加他好友所以你沒有加好友那沒有問題但是行政院院長講是說他都把張景深政委的意見轉達給我們交通部部長陳士凱"},{"start":3752.037,"end":3765.979,"text":"那來 請教一下現在既然院長也已經交辦給你了那賀成旦直接在不是 張景生直接在他的臉書上講說宜蘭高鐵會是史詩級災難四千億解決不了交通問題"},{"start":3767.045,"end":3783.151,"text":"部長怎麼回應報告委員其實高鐵跟紙鐵的這個議題紙鐵的議題已經討論差不多有一二十年的時間並不是說這個議題沒有拿出來討論我想賀成部長應該也相當的清楚因為我現在在問張景生張景生說史詩級災難並且張景生講說民進黨的高官們都紛紛私下跟他講說"},{"start":3790.334,"end":3812.683,"text":"張謹申政委你說的對宜蘭高鐵不可行我不曉得是哪些高官們跟他說但是當時在決定從直鐵轉換為高鐵的過程當中張謹申前政委當時長期在行政院擔任政務委員他應該也很清楚整個過程為什麼他會說他不了解這個我就不曉得不是 他沒有說他不了解他直接講說這是史詩級災難"},{"start":3814.986,"end":3831.063,"text":"所以現在是怎樣在民進黨政府裡面當官的人都不能講真話那辭官之後退休了無事一聲清就可以真話就滿天飛包委員我覺得鐵路的建設包含您很關心的您選區裡面的一些輕軌建設等等這些都是很專業的討論"},{"start":3832.304,"end":3852.304,"text":"我相信專業啊所以我現在才想請教張景生也好或是說前交通部長賀承旦也好現在都講出來說認為說這是不可行沒有辦法解決問題我開宗明義講是說我們全台各縣市的人都有資格有最好的交通品質但是怎麼樣做那現在就變成是說"},{"start":3853.385,"end":3878.04,"text":"大家認為是花了四千億沒有辦法解決問題而且甚至連民進黨的宜蘭縣長候選人在他臉書上貼說要支持宜蘭高鐵下面都有很多支持者講啊都在臉書上講是說他支持他我是民進黨支持者但是我反對宜蘭高鐵那就代表是說政府的決策跟現在宜蘭人的想法訴求可能是有落差的啊"},{"start":3878.828,"end":3901.218,"text":"來 部長我所看到的宜蘭縣議會大部分的民意代表其實是支持宜蘭高鐵的方案宜蘭的立法委員也表達過他支持宜蘭高鐵的方案甚至宜蘭縣政府其實也有表達過他們支持宜蘭高鐵的方案所以前交通部長賀承旦的聲音或是前政委張景深的聲音"},{"start":3902.435,"end":3928.25,"text":"他們不重要還是說他們就不夠專業他們的聲音我們都很重視他們也都在政府部門做過事所以應該很清楚政府部門在做這些決策的過程當中有很嚴謹而且專業的討論過程就是因為這樣所以說本席才好奇說為什麼會有那麼大的落差來 不好意思那個鄭董事長台鐵鄭董事長我知道因為您之前這個腳受傷特別請教不過我就請教您一個專業的問題因為我覺得在現場您真的很有資格發個言"},{"start":3933.199,"end":3941.357,"text":"過去您是高鐵的董事長現在是台鐵的董事長本席不是要給你陷阱題您放心但是本席很認真的要請教"},{"start":3942.522,"end":3963.279,"text":"過去高鐵評估說所謂的宜蘭高鐵或是說現在有人講是說如果宜蘭可以直鐵讓台鐵用新的自強號普悠瑪或是更好的這個列車來服務能夠有比較低的成本但是能夠快速的服務讓宜蘭人能夠也有很快速整點多班次的一個交通工具"},{"start":3964.127,"end":3980.91,"text":"您覺得哪一個方案會是你站在有擔任過高鐵董事長跟台鐵董事長兩個評估那你現在台鐵董事長您覺得咧有沒有再更重啟或是討論的空間而不是像現在一味的就講說不管什麼聲音我就是高鐵我就是要硬幹到底"},{"start":3981.496,"end":4002.344,"text":"我覺得目前的這個規劃的方向應該是我是贊成的就是說高鐵 讓高鐵直接到宜蘭去這樣的話呢整個我們高鐵目前的這個好的品質啊這個一路呢到這個宜蘭那鄭董事長有沒有聽到前政委張景生在他臉書上直接講說如果說高鐵到宜蘭會是史詩級災難"},{"start":4003.649,"end":4026.966,"text":"我有聽說但是我沒有很詳細去了解他講的那您認同這個話嗎至少我目前看來是這個我不認同這樣一個講法你不認同 來 部長所以現在就變成是一個非常大的落差因為張景深政委他直接在臉書上講他講說給行政院院長了然後行政院院長也說交辦給你了"},{"start":4027.466,"end":4054.048,"text":"然後馬政委也講說你不要再賴了院長都有看到那甚至講說這個民進黨的高官們每一個人都支持那為什麼會有這樣的落差民眾的感受我不曉得哪些高官們支持哪些高官因為你那天那個婚禮沒有去對不對看起來那個婚禮是你沒有去不然可能張景深就直接跟你討論了我不曉得他所說的依據如果張景深政委可以再明確一點說哪些人是反對高鐵"},{"start":4054.989,"end":4076.67,"text":"宜蘭案我覺得或許可以再來討論但他沒有講得很清楚這我不曉得他所謂的史詩級的災難我想是不是史詩級的災難這個有點形容詞啦這是形容詞再來針對他所說的那個內容我看報導的說法一 他所說的金額很像說錯了不是4000億是3500多億"},{"start":4079.773,"end":4100.478,"text":"第二他的公里數也說錯了他說只有40公里其實是60公里我不曉得他所說的依據是什麼但我建議因為交通是很專業的討論跟評估政府不會亂花錢就是因為交通是專業的討論跟評估所以才會看到說本席才會看到說連民進黨任內"},{"start":4101.798,"end":4124.822,"text":"的高官不管是政委或是交通部長曾經擔任都會跳出來反對那就代表說這樣子一個討論其實是連民進黨內部都沒有辦法說服自己的那如果說連民進黨政府過去擔任高官的人都沒有辦法說服自己你很難能夠讓人民放心是說這樣子的一個工程會不會能夠達到你原本預計的效果"},{"start":4125.382,"end":4150.15,"text":"我想這就是現在的癥結點報告員這其實經過了最後當然還是要交通部來去做一個拍板或說你們做出的不管可行性評估綜合規劃等等來後續的研議但更重要的是為什麼會現在一個建設出來之後反而會讓很多人而且重點我一直強調這一些並不是在野黨他們過去都是你在擔任民進黨政府時候的高官來"},{"start":4153.154,"end":4182.099,"text":"因為今天還是要討論觀光我還是就叫一下觀光來兩位這個局長跟董事長可以先請回來觀光署署長本席在三個月前討論交通委員會的時候討論我們所謂觀光逆差那時候我就已經有提醒過就今年看起來有可能會突破觀光逆差破千萬那那個時候我也一直一而再再提醒是說你的觀光報告真的不要粉飾太平要看到我們現在的問題"},{"start":4183.325,"end":4198.113,"text":"但很顯然的我覺得現在跟民眾感受差很多我就先救教一下我們在這一次公佈出來所謂的這個觀光國旅的產值2024因為現在我們只有統計到2024年113年對不對國旅產值我們現在全年有多少"},{"start":4209.966,"end":4225.323,"text":"目前 全年觀光署的非常華麗的報告華麗的數據5158這是對 5158億這是1月到9月的部分113年是5158 對113年5158億多少人次 多少旅次"},{"start":4238.519,"end":4256.672,"text":"2.2 2.2 2.2億2.2億屢次怎麼算的國人會很訝異啊因為你講是說這個產值跟屢次都屢創新高比疫情前都還要好那國人就會好奇啊明明跟我們大家的感受不一樣國屢感覺是比較冷門國屢是相對來講比較弱勢而且現在觀光利差破千萬那你怎麼算出來說有2.2億屢次屢次怎麼算的"},{"start":4260.715,"end":4286.064,"text":"這個因為長時間的調查所以我是不是請我們企劃組組長來跟大家說明因為那個真的很認識你的定義是什麼署長你真的對你的業務沒有那麼的純熟我只能這樣講你的屢次是個人為了觀光休閒商務等目的到從日常生活地點到外地活動再返回原地算一次完整的旅程這叫屢次"},{"start":4287.478,"end":4296.369,"text":"所以你把觀光 休閒 商務等相關活動都變成履次那這樣就是會灌水你知道嗎"},{"start":4299.308,"end":4314.816,"text":"來 我們今天的部會我知道有一些部會都是外縣市對不對你今天外縣市的部會來立法院開會今天開完會之後再回你外縣市你也被觀光產值你也被觀光產值納入一個屢次這個是依照國際的統計標準而且是歷年來都是這樣子統計不是到現在才這樣統計部長 之前並沒有這樣統計"},{"start":4327.863,"end":4340.727,"text":"屢次是你們為了要現在部長 真的之前你沒有刻意去講這樣的一個數據你也沒有講這樣的一個產值其實數據都有只是有沒有被凸顯出來部長"},{"start":4344.588,"end":4372.271,"text":"部長 本席就是因為非常重視所以我才會說看到這樣的一個數字是不是我請觀光署 您說過去沒有這樣的我請觀光署提出過去10年的數據給委員部長本席就是因為很重視這樣的數據而且重點在於是你的觀光逆差那個時候我們就提到了就是說不要美化國旅的數字國旅現在有很多的問題但是它不能寫假的啊當然不能寫假的但是你也不能去美化數據你也不能去"},{"start":4373.092,"end":4394.509,"text":"你也不能去講是說部長你今天部長本席現在最重要在於是當國人大家都覺得是說我們的觀光有很大的問題我們都要努力的時候當我們觀光署居然拿出一個數據講是說這個是一個比疫情前還要好的一個數據五千多億全國華然啊"},{"start":4395.55,"end":4416.138,"text":"結果講是說我們什麼時候我們的國內觀光可以到五千多億然後就有兩億多次的屢次數據是依據事實不是依據感覺數據是依據事實所以我可以請觀光署提出過去十年的數據就是因為依據事實本席才要在這邊再提出來就是說這絕對不是一個觀光的屢次嘛"},{"start":4417.15,"end":4432.681,"text":"今天所有部會上來開會都可以算一個履次然後結果我們來我再請教平均每人消費多少錢2323元你的第一名是誰你的第一名是什麼項目餐飲"},{"start":4439.827,"end":4455.716,"text":"你第一名花費在餐飲最多第二名花費在交通最多那不就是一樣嗎你今天國人我所有我就不要講其他就部會首長來到立法院開會都可以算一個履次然後你部會首長來立法院吃便當也可以算成是我們觀光產值"},{"start":4456.576,"end":4483.166,"text":"報告委員觀光產值當然有五千多億但是有多少根本就是國人日常生活這個是主計總署所核定的這就是日常生活這根本就不是旅行產值過去到現在為止一直都是這麼統計方式部長如果說你真的要這樣講的話那我就必須要跟你很直接的講就是說這樣子的一個計算方法跟我們國人以及跟你所謂的觀光就完全落差太大這個我們可以來討論委員如果有更好的計算方法"},{"start":4487.01,"end":4514.481,"text":"連部會首長來立法院開會吃個便當都可以算到觀光產值的時候那我們到底我們的觀光可以有多少產量這才是重點啊你會覺得無奈本席更無奈國內的旅客更無奈國內的旅行社更無奈所有的民眾都覺得是說當我們的國旅已經變成是低迷的時候沒想到我們觀光署給我們的一個公開數據是五千多億創新高"},{"start":4516.246,"end":4544.191,"text":"那生活在什麼地方啊平清時空所以我本席才會講是說我們要針對問題我們要針對問題來解決問題並不是美化數字是 沒有錯 這個我接受謝謝謝謝委員謝謝侯孟凱 昭緯交通委員會是史詩級的委員會都會讓委員充分的一個發言那我們接下來請林國成委員發言"},{"start":4553.627,"end":4561.572,"text":"謝謝主席來請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長那個鐵道局我們楊局長鐵道局楊振軍局長委員好部長 局長大家早他都知道了你們辛苦一下因為我們今天確實對於軌道的政策也提出一個專案報告"},{"start":4582.475,"end":4610.684,"text":"可是當然因為我也列之一二確實過去鐵道的預算是多的可是這幾年下來是下降的那當然在這裡報告我也不是針對這些指定專案報告的這整個鐵路但是比較敏感從這半個月以來"},{"start":4612.086,"end":4633.497,"text":"為了高鐵宜蘭站也就是我們過去張景生前政委他提出非常之多的這些批判當然他個人有個人的看法他也算一個專家我們也要尊重他但是我個人覺得"},{"start":4636.533,"end":4660.603,"text":"交通建設不能依照經濟效益而來斷定做跟不做但是沒有辦法現在風風雨雨不管是媒體不管是當地不管是團體都反對這件事情第一我要請教部長兩個問題第一個你對這件事情"},{"start":4665.689,"end":4694.965,"text":"既然強烈這麼反對部長你有什麼看法報告委員強烈的反對我覺得這都是形容詞那多強烈我覺得要有科學的評估我們其實有做過民調剛剛洪孟愷委員在問的時候我有回答過我們在宜蘭縣議會幾乎看到大部分絕大多數的議員們都是支持的宜蘭的立法委員也是支持的宜蘭的縣政府"},{"start":4695.365,"end":4714.317,"text":"也有表達過他們也是支持的這是第一點第二點我剛才講說反對的感覺要有科學的數據所以我們有做過民調我們目前宜蘭的相信我們做民調支持宜蘭高鐵延伸到宜蘭的有79.5%是支持的那反對的數據可能蠻低的反對當然啦正反雙方都有"},{"start":4721.761,"end":4750.417,"text":"可是據我了解宜蘭地區確實包括老百姓包括政府機關甚至於都把本來97公頃都把它擴大甚至於整個篆圍鄉他們都蠻希望化為交通用地這是事實因為我考察過地方民群我了解所以基本上現在已經建在弦上"},{"start":4753.146,"end":4766.954,"text":"請問現在張景深政委他說是不是請你們做公投你的看法部長做公投報告委員公投這件事不太可能由交通部來發動"},{"start":4769.264,"end":4795.524,"text":"他們要做這些公投你同不同意你同不同意我們已經有做過民調了對我們做過的是民調嘛他現在要發起公投要不要見公投是人民的權利我們都尊重你尊重我們都尊重但是你不覺得這個公投做下去對我們整個交通建設的會耽擱嗎你不擔心嗎"},{"start":4796.665,"end":4818.115,"text":"我們還是希望啦因為很多的民眾是期待交通建設要發展那我們還是期待說交通建設可以趕快來進行是所有民眾所期待的所以你對公投同不同意嗎或者你認為民調就可以顯現出來公投我沒有辦法同意或不同意我們會尊重會尊重 好"},{"start":4820.149,"end":4832.903,"text":"那個 楊局長可以請回來我們陳署長來 觀光署陳署長來 我也要拜託我們那個觀光署啊幕僚單位也提供資料給署長喔"},{"start":4836.475,"end":4855.005,"text":"來 我們今天最主要是觀光那部長我一向不太贊同就是為了捍衛你們的做法而在那邊跟立委在那邊有所爭議這一點我是滿反對的"},{"start":4856.465,"end":4881.761,"text":"立法委員是有意見下情上達然後轉印給決策單位來做觀光政策如何去補足不滿這個不足的地方所以部長我還是建議這裡面當然數據你難怪我們立法院的同仁在質疑這些觀光我舉個例子"},{"start":4882.481,"end":4888.561,"text":"你們現在美麗的數據完全不能反映到"},{"start":4889.548,"end":4893.65,"text":"這個產業是七產的產喔產業的這種感覺我幾例專門辦國禮也得到我們觀光署所表揚的這些禮行業他都關門了耶 部長他都關門了報章雜誌在報導 禮行社"},{"start":4918.23,"end":4944.089,"text":"辦國禮的已經有46家關門了那請問一下既然數據這麼好為什麼他要關門就是因為我們統計的數據雖然過去是這樣統計但是事實上是有所出入的有所出入所以我還是要建議部長因為我也知道你不能管得這麼細"},{"start":4946.102,"end":4960.044,"text":"觀光署當然就要為以籌謀如何檢討改進去符合人民所需要業者所需要這些才有意義那剛才重點就是這樣嘛"},{"start":4961.826,"end":4981.357,"text":"我說實在你不能灌水的政策達到美麗的數據這一點我是很懷疑的報告委員數據一定不會灌水一定灌水啦報告委員數據一定不會灌水在國會殿堂我不要跟你去狡辯私底下我才告訴你們如何去灌水"},{"start":4982.017,"end":5003.685,"text":"我相信這個數據不是部長不是署長但是底下的人說實在的不能這樣灌水有沒有灌水不要爭議但事實上我剛才已經講了業者可以馬上反映我幾例啊像我屏東我們恆春"},{"start":5005.383,"end":5013.242,"text":"他們一年過去是四百萬五百萬現在一年不到兩百萬今年只有兩百零幾萬"},{"start":5014.926,"end":5043.304,"text":"明年他們在擔心他們現在所有的賣場根本幾乎八成都關門大吉不定我相信你是管政策你不會管這麼細節的東西但是署長你要監督這些我還是要建議每一個縣市都有它的觀光產值跟觀光特色"},{"start":5044.224,"end":5065.72,"text":"你們要針對一個縣市一個縣市把它的特色像我們新北 九份它有貴的很好吃你們要不要去辦這些讓人家有一個景點式特色去做促銷這些你要去做啊可是到現在為止"},{"start":5066.857,"end":5072.531,"text":"為止我只有看到美麗的數據從來沒有看到我們因應對策"},{"start":5074.795,"end":5102.134,"text":"我要拜託你針對觀光的問題不是數據啦而是實際不是數據你們的數據都很漂亮啊你們過去就是因為這是錯誤的數據才會導致現在觀光產業慘到不能慘的一個地步所以這個部分真的部長我用心良苦啊"},{"start":5104.397,"end":5129.498,"text":"特別建議你在政策方面好好檢討一下要針對產業發展不要只有美麗的數據而是美麗的業績這是最重要的一點所以我也要拜託我們一向我對於部長對於有心的做法我真的"},{"start":5130.58,"end":5148.348,"text":"敬佩之宜我還要你用政策的力量支持觀光署把它真正不要美麗的數據啦要美麗的業績這才是真正替老百姓把觀光創業去把它做好所以部長這一點"},{"start":5150.009,"end":5177.551,"text":"我提出這些讓你做參考我也希望你能夠在政策方面好好檢討一下不要說沒有灌水我只指責這些沒有意義可是我敢保證所有數據不是署長不是你但是底下給你的數據不完全正確在我們民意代表看到業者的慘淡跟他們的心聲不得不在國會讓我們"},{"start":5179.966,"end":5205.447,"text":"交通部的陳部長能夠了解所以這一點我要建議部長針對這個事情下去做檢討跟改進好不好好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林國成委員林國成委員這一年來是我們交通委員會的同學他即將要畢業我們給林同學掌聲的一個鼓勵"},{"start":5219.953,"end":5235.056,"text":"謝謝林國成委員現在請許智傑委員發言謝謝主席我們先請部長請陳部長"},{"start":5243.752,"end":5260.771,"text":"委員好部長好我想先謝謝昨天部長特地到我們高雄我們高鐵現在也進步很多部長什麼時候高雄到台北的高鐵直達不是 我是說直達車"},{"start":5263.624,"end":5290.318,"text":"大概二月二號是不是很像二月二號所以二月下個月下個月就可以有高雄到高鐵對 會有直達車會有直達車直接就沒停台中了總共有四班沒有中停台中直接到高雄直接台北高雄所以這個是對我們高雄是很好的不中停台中但是有到台南跟高雄所以對台南跟高雄的鄉親來說是相當好的"},{"start":5292.395,"end":5308.537,"text":"直達台南跟高雄2月2號開始調整那也快了吧所以下禮拜我們就看得到了希望說這個可以跟大家公布一下這對我們高雄跟台南都是很好的事情我想這個對"},{"start":5310.7,"end":5331.916,"text":"我們會特別的歡迎所以這個希望說能夠再宣傳一下讓我們大家知道好 那其實針對剛剛林國成委員所提到的我有一點不一樣的意見也希望說跟大家分享事實上台灣進步很多我們應該好的要鼓勵當然我們不好的要檢討"},{"start":5333.4,"end":5358.793,"text":"所以你看台灣現在的高評 台灣的經濟GDP其實都進步很多我們應該往好的方向去看去加強 誇獎我們台灣進步的地方那當然其實我們也希望說不管是行政院還是我們交通部 觀光署等等的相關的單位事實上台灣當然存在著貧富差距的問題那應該怎麼樣去幫助弱勢"},{"start":5360.522,"end":5388.983,"text":"那把這個弱勢再提升我想這個部分是我們做不夠要再繼續加強的那就拿觀光來講就是說那個觀光署長可以一起就拿觀光來講就是說我們以桃園機場跟高雄機場你可以看到其實桃園機場幾乎都飽和啦那我們如果說觀光署的角度用這個二線機場的宣傳所以你可以看到那個"},{"start":5392.842,"end":5415.245,"text":"其他韓國 韓國其實他們我覺得他們有很多東西可以參考著我們看怎麼樣去做因為觀光公社其實很多元 很活潑你包括到各地去分散比如說他們還強化他們的二線城市的行銷包括金海 青州 大邱等那你再看那個"},{"start":5419.134,"end":5444.746,"text":"這個除了這個機場之外你可以看到他們所辦的在高雄所辦的活動高雄所辦的活動你看他們在高雄舉辦下酒祭就是推廣韓國的飲食文化那包括文化大使到我們那個展覽到我們的高雄的博鱷那包括我們其實有很多他們到高雄去也會推很多這個"},{"start":5446.644,"end":5466.389,"text":"釜山、大邱、光州、青山南北道等所以他們其實這個韓國觀光公社我特別去參觀了一下我那個去參觀的照片我還特別去參觀了一下他們的觀光公社所辦的活動其實真的是很多元"},{"start":5467.985,"end":5492.899,"text":"所以我在建議說觀光署事實上我們從觀光局變成觀光署當時崑澤委員跟我們交通委員外的委員也花了很大的力氣希望把觀光局變成觀光署就是提高格局包括人事權包括經費權都能夠提高格局但是呢我們覺得提高之後的變化現在讓我們感受沒那麼大"},{"start":5493.82,"end":5518.487,"text":"就是那個觀光局跟觀光署之間的變化事實上它可以多做很多的事情那這個觀光公社的概念我希望說觀光署可以再了解一下思考一下那再來就是飛機飛機事實上我們也希望說這個看起來不見得是觀光署在處理但是呢其實這都跟觀光有很大的關係"},{"start":5520.523,"end":5542.819,"text":"我記得之前兩位我們的部長跟署長都還不再指的前任的啦當時我一直在說布拉格希望能夠直飛這是桃園機場飛布拉格當時的部長跟署長都說不可能都說不可能但是我一直覺得東歐的市場"},{"start":5544.345,"end":5566.907,"text":"其實現在東歐因為他跟台灣有很不一樣的感情就他們也接受過共產主義的那個蹂躪然後呢他們現在變成民主國家之後他們也在發展經濟那他們對台灣的高科技台積電跟台灣的經濟的發展又蠻嚮往的"},{"start":5569.935,"end":5598.816,"text":"所以現在東歐其實對台灣的重視程度我覺得我去東歐國會考察他們真的非常非常的友善所以當時我就判斷說布拉格應該是很有機會那後來開飛之後部長也知道成績大概都是九成以上所以這個載客率很高那我們觀光署現在有設辦事處的在歐洲就是"},{"start":5599.901,"end":5601.766,"text":"有哪幾個國家 部長知道嗎"},{"start":5605.99,"end":5634.759,"text":"法蘭克福跟倫敦都有那剛剛委員特別提到的那個捷克那我們法蘭克福辦事處呢3月份的大旅展結束之後就會往東歐走了也看到了我們這次的直航很感謝委員的一直持續的支持跟那個我們現在看到的就是東我想到的是東歐北中東南都要去思考了你看新宇其實他們聽到芬蘭他們"},{"start":5636.894,"end":5663.446,"text":"那個意願好像蠻高的很多人批評說我們派林昶佐去做芬蘭的大使好像是不是專業結果我看到一個新聞是林昶佐在芬蘭脫下他的西裝閃靈到了那邊他就直接演唱了因為芬蘭是重金屬國家所以派他去當大使正好是用文化去做結合"},{"start":5665.022,"end":5692.27,"text":"所以現在航權又已經簽了對不對是不是有必要我們去努力在北歐 瑞士我們航權也已經很早就有了所以我在思考就是說是不是我們觀光署就是除了在英發德有我們的辦事處之外就北歐 中歐 東歐等等的是不是可以做一個思考"},{"start":5693.617,"end":5720.723,"text":"那也就是說在其他的國家裡面就是不同的國度我希望說我們都用這樣子的想法主動出局類似包括韓國公社他們的這些做法那如何去推動台灣的我是一個想法就是說如果觀光署我們在世界各國都有我們的辦事處那能夠類似比如說好2025的下九季他們韓國的公社到我們高雄來辦"},{"start":5722.023,"end":5728.425,"text":"其實台灣的美食文化可以說世界應該是數一數二的包括"},{"start":5729.352,"end":5756.277,"text":"珍珠奶茶 包括小籠包 包括滷肉飯現在外國人說滷肉飯 都常常說滷肉飯小籠包也常常說小籠包這表示我們這名字已經燙到世界珍珠奶茶 他們不是叫珍珠奶茶他們叫Bubble Tea但是 就是說像這樣子我們是不是可以主動到全世界各國去把我們台灣的因為你先讓他有體驗嘛署長不是很重視體驗的活動嗎"},{"start":5758.024,"end":5775.998,"text":"是 跟委員報告剛剛委員特別提到的那個直航我覺得光屬未來的重點會跟著我們的直航走就是讓那個地方因為交通要先解決嘛所以我們去辦活動國人或者是當地人才有機會來到台灣這是第一個第二個 台灣的美食確實是引起世界的關注"},{"start":5776.778,"end":5805.255,"text":"我來的這六個多月基本上有很多國外的單位都是想跟台灣的這個美食做合作那這件事情確實也是屬於重中之重那這塊像我們今年今年上半年的越南會帶我們的板豆就是越南團來吃台灣的板豆這種主題型的方式其實也會持續性的推出以上跟委員報告沒事 我是簡單的就是說是我們其實觀光署的目的當時其實我還有一個"},{"start":5806.397,"end":5810.69,"text":"口號我覺得還蠻不錯的就是處處都是打卡點"},{"start":5811.997,"end":5839.409,"text":"步步都是觀光部那我也要希望說我們部長跟署長我這種感覺還沒有出來是不是能夠跟包括文化包括各部會其實就是說我們台灣的觀光要如何能夠推到全世界就像韓國的演唱會高雄的演唱會經濟這樣子一個方式能夠提高這個格局的思考時間的關係先提到這裡下次再補充"},{"start":5840.325,"end":5861.602,"text":"好 那希望說這個部分觀光署可以用一個不同的格局去做思考好不好小補充一下剛剛委員提到的那個北歐的部分是由我們駐倫敦代表處去參加旅展主要的市場就是北歐市場謝謝那盡快啦盡快把這個飛機航線把它完成好 謝謝謝謝許智傑委員發言完畢"},{"start":5875.404,"end":5887.421,"text":"謝謝我們現在請李崑澤召委謝謝主席請一下陳士凱部長還有楊振軍局長陳英秀署長陳署長"},{"start":5895.92,"end":5915.695,"text":"部長好 剛才的委員討論到宜蘭高鐵的問題我是高雄栽培的立法委員但我也是宜蘭的子弟那針對宜蘭高鐵的問題我想現在宜蘭的主流民意已經不是在關心需不需要做"},{"start":5916.235,"end":5937.449,"text":"宜蘭的這個高鐵的延伸而是在關心相關宜蘭高鐵的進度到底什麼時候要到動工到底什麼時候要完工這個是宜蘭鄉親最主要關心的一個趨勢那是不是史詩級的災難或是需不需要宜蘭高鐵的延伸其實"},{"start":5938.47,"end":5967.447,"text":"在還沒有高鐵之前我就在交通委員會當時高鐵在興建的過程裡面也受到很大的攻擊也被認為是史詩級的一個災難認為高鐵就是廢鐵沒有必要做這樣的一個交通的一個工程那我們也看到高雄的捷運在做的時候紅線橘線也是被攻擊說高雄根本就不需要"},{"start":5968.447,"end":5989.225,"text":"捷運而且紅線局線完成之後我們要推動環狀的輕軌也是被攻擊說根本就沒有必要來做輕軌到現在輕軌已經是要買新車因為搭乘的人太多了班次要更密集而且要買新車"},{"start":5991.308,"end":6012.317,"text":"高雄的紅線跟橘線捷運也已經不夠現在黃線已經在動工我們正在爭取紫線的這樣一個規劃當初的這些交通的規劃及完成才讓整個台灣的一日生活圈跟高雄現在的發展轉型以及高科技未來的城市的這樣的一個願景"},{"start":6013.513,"end":6024.308,"text":"才得以一步一步的實現這個宜蘭高鐵是要做的我現在先請教一下陳玉秀署長"},{"start":6026.428,"end":6054.506,"text":"我們現在總預算卡關但是原本陳玉秀署長有推出我們這樣一個國旅住宿的優惠方案相關的觀光業者大家都非常的期待因為在淡季期間我們編了23億不管是平日的住宿的優惠我們預計有16億然後生日的這樣一個住宿優惠大概有2000萬當然我們還有遊樂園的留宿方案等等"},{"start":6055.58,"end":6082.763,"text":"旅遊業者非常期待但是我們預計是應該是在4月要實施嗎是不是來說明一下是謝謝委員關心這個事情確實當時我們推出這個方案的時候業界普遍都是非常期待跟而且還有民眾打電話到光屬的旅客中心就感謝我們提出這個方案那現在當時我們的規劃第一個4到6月是全年度相對的比較淡的時候"},{"start":6083.403,"end":6102.511,"text":"那再加上我們當時考慮的是如果12月31號請預算通過我們有兩個月的準備期加上一個月的宣傳期4月1號剛剛好執行我相信對這整個計畫是效益最好的時候那現在總預算仍然是在卡關的這樣一個過程那我們實施會不會受到延誤"},{"start":6103.803,"end":6126.394,"text":"有沒有其他替代方案勢必上是一定是會受到影響因為我們的準備期是真的需要最緊最快都還要一個半月的時間所以這會牽涉到我們到底預算什麼時候過如果4月到6月無法執行的話後面就變是有點事半功事倍功半效益就會不如預期"},{"start":6127.034,"end":6153.11,"text":"我建議我們相關的行政的籌備流程還是照常的進行總預算如果能夠順利通過就能夠立即的實施在還沒有實施之前因為淡季的這樣的一個補助優惠業者是非常的期待認為是有助於觀光的一個活力的一個發展那如果這個預算一直卡關我們也必須要有替代的方案我請教一下你們有沒有替代方案"},{"start":6155.379,"end":6170.656,"text":"我們還是希望要能去支持這個項目確實因為我們大概從10月份開始已經討論相關的工作我們現在有點箭在弦上了部長我們現在整個總預算卡關我們對於觀光的發展"},{"start":6171.477,"end":6191.893,"text":"其實業者也都非常的明白是因為總預算卡關所以我們在相關的補助的這些優惠的方案或者是相關的國際旅遊的行銷或者是其他新興的計畫其實都碰到問題那部長對於這樣的一個觀光發展在面臨總預算被卡關的這樣的狀況之下你有什麼預備的這樣的一個處理的方案"},{"start":6196.176,"end":6212.394,"text":"報告委員我們當然以現在能夠做的內容來做就是說過去我們有的這個預算或者是計畫我們延續性的我們繼續來做但是如果有超過的大概就不行像您所提到的這個平日國旅優惠方案"},{"start":6213.095,"end":6229.645,"text":"這個就是超過了我們原本的那個額度的部分這個部分大概就沒有辦法來推但我們還是要呼籲立法院能夠趕快的審議我們的總預算讓我們的預算趕快過不然很多的事情包含TPAS在內你說要怎麼樣的預備方案其實有點困難"},{"start":6230.245,"end":6253.636,"text":"好 當然這個補助對於國旅的推動是有實質的幫助但是我要提醒部長跟署長我們對於觀光旅遊的一個發展還是要必須從區域的旅遊品牌就是地方的特色 多元永續還有旅宿的品質以及交通的改善來作為一個推動整體觀光發展一個重要的元素"},{"start":6254.356,"end":6279.465,"text":"當然我們在實質的政策對於軟硬體的這樣的一個推動其實更重要是對國內外旅客對於台灣旅遊的信任但是最近發生兩件事情對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任就產生了很大的疑問第一個就是知名大型旅行社用戶資料外洩的這樣一個問題那我們都知道"},{"start":6280.365,"end":6299.41,"text":"旅客 有很多旅行社他是來代辦這些旅客的相關的這些旅遊的資料他們的資料會提供非常多的這些資料給旅行社發生這些外洩的狀況其實就讓國內外旅客對台灣的旅遊信任度就產生了這些質疑"},{"start":6299.89,"end":6322.7,"text":"那當然這展現了兩個問題第一個問題就是說我們對於業者管理這些個別的各自管理的這樣的一個狀況是怎麼處理的交通部觀光署必須要明確的掌握以及相關企業本身他資訊的這些安全的問題其實也浮現出來請部長說明一下"},{"start":6324.346,"end":6332.956,"text":"報告委員這個部分 觀光署應該會趕快去查處就是說已經進行查處我請那個旅行社負責的組長湯組長來簡單說明一下"},{"start":6336.332,"end":6355.758,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實針對那個旅行社各自部分我們分兩個部分一個就是我們平時就已經有在做查處那公安署已經有訂定計劃所以我們每年都會預防性的去做各自檢查那針對各自外線的旅行社的話我們會馬上啟動調查那針對五福這件我們昨天已經去查過了那我們都會依照相關規定來做辦理"},{"start":6358.274,"end":6370.698,"text":"那最主要民間它不是它是那種非關鍵基礎設施的管理範圍所以公機關是難以直接的介入那我們看到許多代辦業者"},{"start":6372.935,"end":6393.472,"text":"例如像這次的旅行社他們代辦民眾相關的這些業務他需要取得更多的這些用戶的個資企業本身他的資訊的安全防護技術其實是沒有辦法及時的更新類似的事件我認為還是會重複的發生"},{"start":6395.874,"end":6403.23,"text":"主管機關必須要督促以及協助業者來建立更完善的這種資訊安全的防護來 請簡單說明一下"},{"start":6405.729,"end":6425.583,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實都有在輔導業者我們也會希望他們可以參加就是相關的這個認證有一些旅行社已經有取得資安的認證那因為旅行社大部分都是中小型企業就是10人以下居多那大型企業其實我們都已經有在做個資檢查那五福發生這件事情應該也是駭客入侵"},{"start":6427.344,"end":6443.209,"text":"之前也有別的旅行社大家旅行社有發聲過那其實發聲之後他們都會特別的不容許一再的發聲這對國內外旅客對台灣旅遊的信任會降低我是認為必須要跨部會來制定或者是更新既有相關各自的管理規範"},{"start":6444.249,"end":6468.674,"text":"以及相關的資訊安全的一些指引而且要有定期的集合的機制而且我們要協助業者跟出發部來建立相關的這一種風險事件的這些預警以及預防提供業者來他們在發生的時候能夠由資安院還有相關的單位來提供及時的協助最後"},{"start":6469.574,"end":6486.728,"text":"我們來提一下我們相關的這些住宿的問題這也是影響到旅遊的這些信任我們看到民眾預計連結要出遊提前支付相關的訂金來訂定這些旅宿後續業者就說不好意思我們房間"},{"start":6487.589,"end":6505.121,"text":"要整修我們也沒有辦法提供相同的房型提供來讓民眾來更換所以要求你們退訂然後退訂之後這樣的要求然後我們看到民眾發現業者在其他地方以更高的價格來販售相同的這些房型這些觀光署有什麼處理的機制"},{"start":6509.196,"end":6524.897,"text":"這個部分如果說消費者呢遇到這樣的問題他可以直接跟地方政府的小法官來提出申訴那如果查證屬實他是惡意棄單的話基本上我們是可以罰他三倍的那個罰金的這個部分是這樣子這個要確實的記住以上謝謝"},{"start":6539.367,"end":6564.645,"text":"謝謝許智傑委員我們現在請徐富奎委員發言謝謝王一川委員 麗玲指導謝謝主席 有請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長 鐵道局楊局長跟公務局林局長謝謝林福山局長"},{"start":6574.097,"end":6581.411,"text":"部長早兩位局長早我剛剛聽了我們國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說那個論點想要討回"},{"start":6584.059,"end":6605.337,"text":"他們根本是倒贏為國 這個我想這個到目前為止 我們的這個今年度的總預算還躺在立法院還沒有審這個沒錢是要怎麼做現象他們一直把很多的問題推卸給我們的交通部 推卸給我們相關的單位 推卸給行政院真的是很離譜的那所以我想針對這樣的一個"},{"start":6608.587,"end":6627.675,"text":"立法院的一個困境部長我其實很憤怒我們屏東的尤其過去從我們的潘孟安前縣長到現在周春美縣長我們一路走來記得我們努力的屏東幾個幾項的重要的交通建設我想部長跟局長都非常清楚雙北現在買什麼要有什麼"},{"start":6629.195,"end":6653.724,"text":"他們的這個整個大眾交通運輸非常的便利捷運已經做過了我們屏東的高鐵還沒有來捷運也還沒有來甚至連我們現在屏南快速道路還在還貧真的我們的交通建設真的站不起來保水對我們屏東人情何以堪難道我們沒有納稅錢嗎太離譜了吧部長我想針對這樣的一個總預算的問題"},{"start":6656.687,"end":6676.004,"text":"交通部目前正在這樣的一個困境我們怎麼處理請部長說明報告委員您剛剛所提到的高鐵的部分我們也希望能夠繼續往前推進雖然說還有討論的這個空間但是我們還是希望往前推進我剛剛有講過就是說我們希望我們在高鐵的"},{"start":6676.684,"end":6694.476,"text":"部分已經20年了我們現在就是務實的延伸務實的延伸這個部分我們會努力來推進那另外平南快的部分我們也希望能夠快一點來進行那目前的這個可行性研究我們現在等行政院這邊來核定已經核定了那另外"},{"start":6695.737,"end":6716.992,"text":"高頻二快的部分院長在去年其實也有到這個屏東去也有宣布過我們希望能夠今年來動工但是因為現在總預算沒有過我們很擔心這個動工的時程會不會去延遲那我們當然希望不要去延遲到所以我們會想盡辦法想盡辦法讓高頻二快的部分能夠趕快來做動工的動作"},{"start":6718.243,"end":6746.255,"text":"部長 我想 我知道包含您跟我們的交通部都很努力但是我們不能被受困於藍白可以政治算計但屏東的交通建設不能繼續落後我想對我們情何以堪尤其今天講的觀光發展為什麼屏東縣現在觀光會受到這麼樣的困境交通難道不是一個很重要的一個因素嗎不然你也常常去屏東念很清楚我們光是要到屏東的路途裸遙萬"},{"start":6747.642,"end":6748.209,"text":"我每天坐車"},{"start":6750.199,"end":6778.689,"text":"要坐火車坐高鐵來台北開會來回就要6個小時那對我們這些遊客來講他光是5天的行程來回平常就浪費2天的交通耗的時間在那裡對我們來講怎麼會有誘因呢我想這個問題我們都要去面對都要去解決好那剛剛部長你講的那針對高屏二塊原本我們預期是今年要動工那這個預算也已經都編到今年的總預算今年會不會動工"},{"start":6780.101,"end":6798.634,"text":"報告委員 我們原本的計畫是希望9月底能夠動工那現在總預算確實是有延遲到我們現在還是在請公路局想盡辦法我們想盡辦法趕快讓他能夠動工是不是 我請局長來回答一下 是這邊跟委員報告一下確實就是說高屏二塊今年新興計畫在今年的預算是3.5億"},{"start":6799.875,"end":6819.824,"text":"那裡面大概有這個1.5億是屬於設計那這一個其他它將近2億是屬於用地徵收的部分那原來的現在在做這個篆桿這個設計當中那按照原定的期程是希望在9月底針對在這個台三線加入到因為是台台農土地比較容易取得希望來這個動工"},{"start":6821.124,"end":6848.008,"text":"那這個目前我們也很期盼這個預算趕快審查通過但是現在相關的這個前置的設計我們還是在這個感冒當中這個要拜託交通部我們一樣要照期程來進行第二個平安快速道路那因為我上個禮拜我也有請環境部跟部裡面來討論我們希望能夠加快這個重規跟環境的一個進度那這部分局長我們目前的進度會不會再能夠提前"},{"start":6849.249,"end":6863.742,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下就是說就是委員大概就是非常關切那環境部那邊也在這個協助那另外一個部分這一個就是這禮拜大概就是上禮拜大概就是城鎮委那邊也有特別這個召集來礦部會做協助"},{"start":6864.142,"end":6881.671,"text":"那目前大概就是說第一階段環評的部分這個我們已經提送環境部那環境部也很幫忙在2月4號會來做這個審查那如果說順利的話這個分手界定完之後那就可以這個配合我們現在現行的這個中規的一個作業那開展第二階段的環評"},{"start":6882.831,"end":6900.333,"text":"那陳政委這個也召開會議來協助那希望說訂這個目標在116年8月可以把這個二節環評把它做就是這個通過那相關的部分我們局裡面公務局也跟這個屏東縣政府大概有這個協調"},{"start":6901.814,"end":6922.285,"text":"因為未來在水底寮那邊會有一個加油道那這個跟水底寮外環道的共識放寮外環道一起處理這個185的一個聯絡道的部分的話我們跟屏東縣政府也有這個共識那會作為這個仙島工程來做一個處理那希望說在116年底這個仙島工程可以來動工"},{"start":6923.902,"end":6941.922,"text":"好 我希望今天局長講的 這個未來我們都會來檢視一定要照這樣的期程來進行我們的屏東鄉親已經等很久了這條救命路真的等很久了部長 那我想針對高鐵部分當然現在我們的前交通部的部長這個最近也"},{"start":6942.623,"end":6957.117,"text":"透過媒體一直在放話說這個我們屏東南沿屏東甚至北沿宜蘭的部分他們都認為沒有這個效益甚至有一些路廊的問題那我很遺憾的說過去這個整個"},{"start":6958.267,"end":6972.796,"text":"這個台灣的這個交通發展過去為什麼會重北青南難道這些人不用負責任嗎對得起我們屏東人嗎對得起宜蘭人嗎部長你有什麼看法是 報告委員我還是那一句話啦對於高鐵的議題"},{"start":6974.017,"end":6991.665,"text":"我們現在交通部的立場是務實而穩健的延伸什麼叫務實而穩健的延伸第一在工程的技術上可以克服可以做得到那第二在國家的預算上可以支撐得了也就是我們的預算能夠負擔得了的狀況底下我們會務實來推動延伸的計畫"},{"start":6992.952,"end":7018.205,"text":"我想我們的賴總統已經講過了嘛我們未來要均衡台灣連交通都不會均衡是不會讓台灣進步啦我想這個部分我們屏東人我還是要特別強調我們還是要享有交通平權的一個權利我們屏東人不站著要報稅部長在我們周圍來拍片這樣好不好這個部分我們交通部會來努力也感謝委員的支持好 那個兩位局長請回我請那個觀光署陳署長陳署長"},{"start":7027.106,"end":7042.474,"text":"我想我們針對這個臺灣的這個觀光發展那行政院這邊也提出了一個115到118的一個4年的一個計畫北回之巔跟這個微笑南威的一個計畫但是很遺憾的一樣卡在總預算的問題那尤其針對"},{"start":7043.895,"end":7055.083,"text":"目前整個這個我們觀光署也好針對整個這個地方政府也好會受到很大的一個觀光景點的一個發展跟觀光活動的一個推動的一個瓶頸那面對這個問題我們觀光署會不會來繼續來協調繼續來推動這個案子"},{"start":7062.582,"end":7081.216,"text":"謝謝委員提出來這個問題因為今年的擴大內需跟我們的北回直電都是國家重要級的建設公共建設那這件事情也是屬於各地方政府也非常的期待跟支持那在去年光屬就已經組成了為了北回直電這個案子我們已經組成了一個總顧問團"},{"start":7084.298,"end":7111.078,"text":"希望以軟帶硬把這條軸線上面除了公共建設之外但是到底有哪些的故事在這裡先已經在內部做盤點所以我們是急需要這個計畫趕快通過那我們相關後面的工作才能開始啟動大家都重視觀光產業的發展但是如果預算不過就會勢必上延後了我們後面整個台灣觀光發展的一個機會那在這邊還是懇請立法院趕快審預算趕快通過預算謝謝"},{"start":7112.239,"end":7131.566,"text":"因為我聽說國民黨跟民眾黨的委員說因為你們現在規劃的案子都是否我們這個綠營執政的縣市其實我們把計畫攤開來看看國民黨的縣市難道沒有嗎更多花蓮台東南投都有我想這是一個均衡觀光的一個做法"},{"start":7132.466,"end":7155.553,"text":"那目前我們的柯執恩委員 謝榮介委員蘇勛委員 你們也是要進行選縣市長難道你們不支持這些案子嗎所以我們還是要再三呼籲在野黨要趕快來省預算 不要再阻擋總預算我想這個部分能夠讓我們的觀光發展能夠趕快往前推進那最後我想 最後一個問題部長 最近這個101事件你有什麼看法"},{"start":7157.757,"end":7172.727,"text":"101事件我們這個爬101這個是國人大家都很振奮的一件事情那在過程當中其實交通部也有幫上一些忙但是我們沒有把它特別去做宣傳因為這個是101的這個甲董事長他們努力的方向"},{"start":7173.652,"end":7200.907,"text":"因為我知道我們現在觀光行銷上面我們當然有很多的策略了包含網紅也好 包含演唱會經濟也好但我想我們現在這個不同的課程尤其包含國內外的這個遊客要來一定有不一樣的這個課程的安排跟這個玩法我們觀光署也應該要與時俱進要想很多不一樣的方式 讓媒體自己會主動去報 讓大家願意來關注這樣的一個發展 我想這是一個很好的一個案例 謝謝"},{"start":7202.208,"end":7219.745,"text":"好 謝謝徐物魁委員發言完畢先做一下宣告等一下蔡其昌委員林俊憲委員發言完畢之後休息十分鐘請各黨團助理告知接下來的委員以便他們安排時間現在請蔡其昌委員發言"},{"start":7231.48,"end":7237.506,"text":"謝謝主席請交通部陳部長 觀光署陳署長陳部長 陳署長委員部長早 署長早"},{"start":7246.898,"end":7266.351,"text":"今天主席安排了發展觀光條例的修法針對發展觀光條例本席有幾條條文要來進行這些修正因為這個條文我本席今天就不講但是我講的跟這個條文多多少少有一點關係"},{"start":7268.872,"end":7282.59,"text":"我們都知道這個觀光對台灣的觀光而言這個不管是觀光的數字這個觀光產業的榮枯其實跟兩條軸線很大的關係一條就是inbound一條就是outbound"},{"start":7283.311,"end":7303.987,"text":"那看起來澳邦的部分就是在服務澳邦的這些旅行社等等看起來應該是狀況不差啦因為我們可以看得到包括從韓國的統計數據從日本的統計數字來看台灣人都變成人家的這個財神也了"},{"start":7304.776,"end":7328.187,"text":"所以對我們的出國的旅客而言其實我們的狀態其實是相當不錯的但是反過來來台灣的旅客看起來狀況還有很大的努力空間那當然在台灣的旅行而言除了外國人來之外國旅也是很重要的一個部分"},{"start":7329.502,"end":7356.325,"text":"那其實這個是老生常談這個在交通委員會這麼長的時間我想每一個階段我們的國旅都面臨不同的挑戰那也曾經好過但現在此刻的狀態看起來是不好那這個不好其實我沒有辦法給你標準答案但我覺得觀光研訓院要成立之後我認為觀光研訓院應該給大家答案"},{"start":7357.099,"end":7377.595,"text":"什麼意思呢 譬如說現在我認為很不利的你在所有的社群平台上你都可以去發現這個有錢人出國有錢人留在台灣 窮人出國那這個意思就是要告訴大家說國旅是比出國更貴的旅行"},{"start":7378.666,"end":7403.226,"text":"那這個已經是既定印象你只要看在社群平台上你只要PO這種文的下面大概都留言量那一則的PO文流量都特別的大那下面的PO文都可以看出來大家看起來多數是同意這種說法所以這個其實是一個既定的刻板印象而且這個刻板印象對國旅是非常不利的所以"},{"start":7404.414,"end":7433.897,"text":"交通部或觀光署要怎麼去扭轉這個刻板印象我認為這個其實是很關鍵的那這個刻板印象源自於哪裡源自於大家會覺得譬如說國旅的飯店國旅的這個旅宿很貴那更源頭可能從墾丁開始更源頭可能從墾丁開始那這個就是過去本席一直在提到對於觀光飯店有貴有中價位也有便宜"},{"start":7434.741,"end":7453.31,"text":"可是大家會普遍沒有特別在數據上做管理的印象也就是只要網路有人PO一張很個案型的照片個案的案例說你看 食物這個一點點什麼東西夜市買來的什麼東西就要多少錢"},{"start":7454.801,"end":7480.851,"text":"拍了一張房間的照片然後就告訴大家你看我花了多少錢然後下面就一大堆留言說你這個錢我已經可以去Okinawa我已經可以去日本了其實就這樣那這個案我不是說PO的人不對啦我的意思只是告訴你們說或許那一個PO的人是對的他也無心要打擊誰只是作為一個消費者他覺得這樣很貴可是這個一個個案就會變成久而久之就會變成普遍的現象"},{"start":7481.994,"end":7505.208,"text":"那觀光署的重點在哪裡當然啦 有人賣得很貴然後貴跟便宜又有個人感受的問題又有他其他周邊服務到底含不含瓜在這個價格裡面可是久而久之大家就會普遍覺得都是這麼貴所以什麼叫數字管理就是資料的收集對觀光署而言到底每一個"},{"start":7506.699,"end":7523.496,"text":"國旅重點時刻到來每一個地區它的定房狀況中價位價位到哪裡高價位價位到哪裡低價位到平均房價到底在哪裡其實這個對消費者而言就是最好去對抗個案因為統計數據我們不會有"},{"start":7525.748,"end":7552.813,"text":"而且對觀光署而言或許你也不夠及時你或許自己也對這個資訊的掌握也不足所以我只是提供一個就以科學的數據統計數據來面對我們國旅很多的消費者的個案這樣才有辦法跟大家跟社會說明你不說明長期一個個案一個個案累積最後就約定俗成最後就形成刻板印象最後就是告訴大家"},{"start":7554.042,"end":7562.178,"text":"有錢的人才能留在台灣國旅窮人最好出國因為出國比較便宜但事實上出國真的比較便宜嗎"},{"start":7563.719,"end":7589.482,"text":"這個也要看地區 看時間要看他要求的服務品質來論斷所以我想全世界都是如此台灣有台灣的好 國外有國外的好這個沒有辦法蘋果跟橘子是沒有辦法放在同一個天平來比較但為什麼會被台灣的國旅會變成被污名化這麼嚴重我覺得這個是觀光署真的要認真去思考那接下來你又有光源心願的成立"},{"start":7590.31,"end":7611.366,"text":"所以光源心願對於這樣的問題到底要怎麼解方是什麼我提的只有一個你這數字的公佈就客觀數字的統計公佈讓大家的預期可以怎麼去處理他接下來的旅行到底要出國還是要留在台灣這個可控部長跟署長你們覺得呢"},{"start":7612.609,"end":7637.558,"text":"報告員您剛剛的那個建議我剛剛也跟署長講您上一頁的那個建議應該要把它拿下來好好來討論一下真的是應該各種數據都讓民眾能夠接觸的到能夠理解的到這個是比較持平的方式才不會大家用刻板的印象去對國旅有不好的一些想法所以部長你是支持所以我們應該集結不只是我建議這一項"},{"start":7639.159,"end":7665.887,"text":"在署裡面有那麼多的優秀的文官你們應該要認真去思考面對到底國旅是什麼因為不能只在知緯末節這個補助一下那個辦個活動放個煙火其實這個在結構上我覺得現在國旅是很不利的那個刻板印象是非常深刻強烈的那第二個像我都覺得像署長你曉得我看了一個東西我就覺得很有趣"},{"start":7667.557,"end":7685.772,"text":"我們的環境部在推綠色旅遊網頁你有看到這個環境部的這個活動嗎你曉得這個活動嗎 觀光署曉得嗎署長或者其他同仁曉得嗎環境部有在推綠色旅遊網頁"},{"start":7687.862,"end":7704.165,"text":"我們跟環境部一直有保持跟綠色旅遊的這塊的一些合作跟聯繫一直都有好 那其實如果這分兩個層次現在看起來觀光署是知道的那我的意思就是說觀光署竟然知道觀光署對於"},{"start":7706.026,"end":7725.176,"text":"環保標章的環境部認證環保標章旅行社有26家嘛其實占比很低啦連1%都不到只有0.6而已那他裡面去區分嘛他列了一些條件然後列了一些旅行該具備什麼什麼然後給你什麼叫做金級銀級銅級這樣加起來總共只有26家"},{"start":7727.264,"end":7753.365,"text":"那如果大家因為我看到了新的修法也提到行政院也提到叫永續觀光環境部現在在做的透過環保標章的旅行社推這個綠色旅遊觀光署你們覺得這件事情讓環境部在推綠色旅遊你覺得這個合理嗎或者說這個認證你們要不要跟環境部好好討論一下這個認證是什麼"},{"start":7755.031,"end":7783.544,"text":"跟委員報告委員觀察的確實是事實但是現在其實不是只有環境部在推綠色旅遊各部會都在推綠色旅遊太好了因為就是現在的顯學那署長我作為一個旅行社或者觀光飯店那我到底要申跟你中華民國政府申請多少的認證標章因為你說各部會都在推所以我環境部要申請一次我觀光署要申請一次我不知道還有其他哪一個部也在推"},{"start":7784.344,"end":7790.208,"text":"那我到底我要怎麼證明我是國家認證我是永續旅遊綠色旅遊或者什麼旅遊"},{"start":7792.72,"end":7818.985,"text":"這件事情現在也是我們跟環境部正在溝通的地方我們能推的是綠色旅遊但是呢 標章這件事情我們建議還是由環境部來處理大家才有一致的標準那現在觀光署因為推的還是郵程嘛所以我們會再去集合一下各部會再推有關綠色旅遊的這個項目再集中起來好啦 我的意思就是說你們觀光署 我講在交通委員會二十年來太多的認證"},{"start":7821.072,"end":7838.323,"text":"太多的認證每一次認證一大堆的認證鼓勵業者來申請申請完之後他在市場上到底能不能創造現金流其實我都高度懷疑就像搞這個律師認證你看只有26家26家認證佔比0.6%在旅行社的佔比0.6%那好就算"},{"start":7847.059,"end":7866.656,"text":"我第一個問題是政府要不要統合不要讓大家到處在申請認證第二個 好 我申請認證完之後認證跟不認證到底有什麼差異業者很辛苦 經營很辛苦了國旅都已經這麼差了我還要花錢去認證認證完之後還接不到生意"},{"start":7867.782,"end":7891.307,"text":"所以當我們要辦一個認證第一個先整合你們先談好誰要來做這個認證第二個誰要來做這個行銷就是你要讓大家區隔說我很認真在推永續推綠色然後過了之後只要拿到認證於是乎我會吸引一大票的人讓大家知道我就是全台灣最綠色或者最永續的旅行社"},{"start":7892.452,"end":7917.611,"text":"你如果不做這個他只是又多一個認證標章又擾民 又讓業者要申請申請太少 公安署又沒有面子所以要趕快去督促大家趕快來申請不然我再編一個預算認證什麼補助什麼補助然後認證完之後其實也找不到生意署長 你懂我的意思部長 懂我的意思所以第一個 先做好整合第二個"},{"start":7918.868,"end":7940.258,"text":"把認證後面的整個行銷的規劃一併做好這樣不就不讓大家說你講故事大家又推什麼認證我就覺得很煩了啦業者都覺得很煩好不好最後一個啊部長那個我們持續在委員會裡面爭取台中機場的這個新的航線那我們很謝謝這個我們很謝謝這個星宇嘛在"},{"start":7945.931,"end":7965.022,"text":"這個夏季的航班裡面又多了這個東京跟熊本東京跟熊本那今年本期要推動建議的那麼多的新的航點還有沒有可能有其他的點因為時間很有限來簡單回答我就好"},{"start":7965.862,"end":7980.721,"text":"今年因為夏季班表冬季夏季班表三月剛剛委員講到這個那當然之前我們也再持續看看日本的部分還有沒有再新增的可能機會 現在機會很大你知道嗎中國因為不飛了 那個機場"},{"start":7982.763,"end":8009.908,"text":"運量就會下來下來就剛好台灣補進去這個時候不搶 機會很難東京每一個點都那麼熱那其實不只東京像東南亞也是像台中很多希望飛曼谷或者是像比較遠一點像雜黃 北海道這些其實都可以考慮 好不好那另外那個華信不要忘記你們答應我了 華信新的飛機華航撥過來之後要有一台來飛台中的"},{"start":8010.428,"end":8034.08,"text":"到時候要飛哪裡我們再商量一下再一看市場的需求啦好來謝謝蔡體昌委員發言完畢現在請林俊憲委員發言發言完畢之後休息十分鐘好感謝主席本席要請我們交通部陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":8041.363,"end":8042.549,"text":"委員好部長好"},{"start":8043.752,"end":8071.69,"text":"部長我們台南市的一個重大交通建設就是台南鐵路地下化預計在今年底通測是 部長好像明天要到台南去主持鐵路地下化的一個接軌儀式對 崗軌的最後的接軌儀式所以我們地方非常期待這個台南的鐵路地下化對於台南未來的發展非常重要是 但是"},{"start":8073.149,"end":8102.208,"text":"受到今年總預算還沒有審查的影響那相關的預算如果沒有辦法動之會不會影響到今年底的通車報告委員確實我們今年的預算是超過去年所以在台南鐵路地下化確實會有預算上面的影響但是通車的部分我們目前還是朝年底之前通車這個目標在努力當中"},{"start":8103.169,"end":8130.811,"text":"因為他的台南鐵路地下化的中間補助款是由前瞻的預算移編到部裡面來的好那我給你看幾個數字第一個他在去年大概是有編了178億多那今年我現在講的是你所有的鐵道捷運軌道的交通部的一個經費"},{"start":8132.529,"end":8155.716,"text":"今年是編了310億台南的也在裡面這筆預算就是交通部的鐵道還有捷運建設的計畫它包含了桃園桃園的鐵路地下化花東的鐵路雙軌電氣化嘉義市的鐵路高架嘉義縣市的跨縣市的鐵路高架還有台南市"},{"start":8156.772,"end":8172.569,"text":"的鐵路地下化的計畫等等都在裡面是那如果今年2026年的年度總預算沒有過這310億沒有過那你依法大概就只能動之到一個上限就是去年預算的上限178億多是不是這樣是"},{"start":8176.157,"end":8201.494,"text":"也就是說如果總預算沒有通過的話那你今年只能執行你今年310億大概不到六成大概57%的預算就你比照去年最高的預算你是不是可以動這這樣的額度對 報告委員就是差額會有到131億這麼多你有130億你就沒辦法做那你原本的預算規模310億"},{"start":8203.075,"end":8231.829,"text":"結果你現在手裡面只有179億所以你就要做預算分配嘛 對不對那很簡單 你要怎麼分配這個影響到各縣市地方重大的交通建設所以這個在野黨不省總預算也害慘了地方這個是政治的惡鬥害死國家的發展各縣市的重大建設的發展"},{"start":8232.912,"end":8259.292,"text":"我在這裡要求部長那你現在原本的年度預算規模今年310億結果你現在只能弄至179億你就去挑啦凡是反對省總預算藍白立委的這個民眾黨沒有就國民黨立委的地方你就不要分配給他那要不然桃園一塊錢都不要給他桃園六個禮物都分對"},{"start":8263.212,"end":8291.838,"text":"總預算啊花東也是啊這樣要分配嗎不然你怎麼分配你告訴我報告委員我們是希望每一個縣市都不要被放棄啦那但是各個地方的委員你不總預算你都不要放棄你全部都不要放棄各個地方的委員自己也要想辦法來支持這個總預算不然真的會對他們的地方的建設會造成很重大的影響你應該跟地方的縣市長說啊跟投行的張善政說啊花東也是啊"},{"start":8293.012,"end":8316.478,"text":"你們的立委反對省總預算交通部今年哪有錢補助你鐵道岸捷運的建設相關計畫你從那優先步驟像我們這幾期心中有什麼台南高雄嘉義那我再請教部長我也要求部長不可以影響到台南連底通車的計畫"},{"start":8318.956,"end":8326.371,"text":"我們會 有沒有問題我們會盡全力盡全力來努力這個方向你的全力是有沒有辦法不影響通車的計畫"},{"start":8328.995,"end":8355.444,"text":"應該是可以啦報告委員明天你要記住我明天要去要去做一定可以崗軌的最後的這個先接我知道啦感謝啦但是預算真的是對我們影響相當相當的大不過我們交通部跟鐵道局會全力努力讓這個台南的鐵路地下化在今年年底來做通車的典禮你的你今年還可以動資大概179億台南市鐵路地下化降多少20億"},{"start":8358.018,"end":8383.306,"text":"你看沒問題吧 對不對是 是 我看那個人家京都一直在聽頭啊所以不會影響到台南市的鐵路地下化的通車啦就算總預算沒有省好 我們達成這樣 我們達成這樣一個結論啦你京都比你比較有擔當人家京都都說可以你補充一直要省 不用省啦對不對 才20億嘛 對不對"},{"start":8385.447,"end":8408.846,"text":"台南的六席立委都支持要省總預算你這個當然要優先給我們感謝台南的立委都支持總預算我們會優先來顧及台南鄉親的需求另外我再講一個這兩個都是關於應該跟交通部當然都是業務相關第一個我們國內的旅遊今天大家很關心"},{"start":8410.083,"end":8420.732,"text":"除了昂貴以外 還會產生一些亂象什麼昂貴啊 不只是吃喝的 一般都煮那你說國旅就整了 巷子整了就大了"},{"start":8421.897,"end":8445.365,"text":"你整個沒關係 產生一些奇奇怪怪的現象例如現在的人出去玩 訂房一般都透過平台那你平台他有時候遇到廉價或者有重大 假設你預訂了 你訂好了結果忽然間公佈說有什麼樣的一個大活動 那就會出問題"},{"start":8446.84,"end":8471.175,"text":"高雄因為演唱會經濟很成功BTS去高雄開演唱會平台就把所有訂房取消平台也叫他在上面有房間的這些飯店先關房再漲價因為他知道這個活動辦了很多人會來對不對你如果照平常的價格賣他覺得可以賺到多少"},{"start":8477.911,"end":8505.265,"text":"因為一個大活動到了大家一定會搶房那有沒有辦法管理你連個平台你沒辦法管理這個問題其實我以前質詢過我說這些平台現在在上面賣房間有很多在上面刊登廣告的都是非法的旅宿你沒習慣了你告訴我什麼平台沒落地"},{"start":8506.946,"end":8509.763,"text":"那現在有沒有辦法管啊現在可以管嗎"},{"start":8512.25,"end":8538.901,"text":"來 市長 跟委員報告關於像那個惡意棄單的這個部分呢消費者如果遇到這樣的問題就直接跟當地的地方政府的消保官直接申訴那所以如果查證屬實他是可以罰三倍的這是第一個 第二個呢針對非法旅宿的部分呢在法官條例第55條跟51-1條也有只要是非法的部分我們最旅館業最高可以罰兩百萬民宿是最高可以罰一百萬"},{"start":8540.161,"end":8566.332,"text":"這個部分現在也要求他們在任何刊登廣告上面都要把自己合法的證據都放上來針對非法旅宿你講的嘛他在刊登非法旅宿他刊登廣告的行為他可以罰10萬到150萬是你有罰嗎150萬最高你有罰嗎目前由地方政府去主責你有罰嗎在平台上刊登"},{"start":8568.402,"end":8578.713,"text":"報告我們這個是就個案去處理因為這部分就是有一方面就是另一個就是你觀光署有處罰嗎地方政府在做那個你要推給地方政府你觀光署有處罰嗎"},{"start":8580.2,"end":8604.063,"text":"因為這是全責的話如果說一般旅館跟民宿是地方政府在主責如果是觀光旅館是由我們來直接來開發非法觀光旅館全國都沒有人回歸基本上是沒有非法的觀光旅館你在那個在那個平台上刊登的非法旅宿那有沒有要求平台不要讓他刊登"},{"start":8605.974,"end":8624.868,"text":"這個像我們平常就會請地方政府就要平常要巡查如果有的話就直接發行給他要求他撤 撤下你要求誰撤要求OTA平台如果他是在平台上看到的話所以你現在可以管理OTA平台了OTA平台現在已經要求他要在台灣成立公司所以基本上已經可以納管了"},{"start":8625.305,"end":8641.039,"text":"好 台灣每一家平台都有落地嗎都有成立公司嗎在這一部分是有兩個方式來處理另外就是說我們那個地方政府經過利用網路訊號政府平台大部分都沒有落地"},{"start":8642.882,"end":8668.958,"text":"國內的旅行社的這一部分全部都用旅行社來登記國內的平台的部分那如果說是不勤勞落地嗎所以國外的這個因為它是國際的這部分國人大部分都在這幾個大的平台上訂的台灣前三大 前五大的平台統統沒有落地啦你們的署長不知道不知道署長是不是署長是沒有落地那麼沒有落地什麼落地"},{"start":8669.858,"end":8687.405,"text":"你到底懂不懂的自己業務不太了解一下平台都沒有落地啦包括你部長你自己出席的時候你都用哪個網站你都用什麼店報告委員我已經很久沒有訂房了你沒有訂房喔搞清楚好不好"},{"start":8687.998,"end":8715.213,"text":"沒有啦 國際的平台目前還沒有落地沒有完全落地但是國內的平台是有落地的但是沒有錯 委員講得很正確大部分的國人是用國際的平台在使用你國內平台當然在台灣當然也落地怎麼可以這樣講 你說的不順暢問題大部分我們現在台灣一般旅客因為國內平台都不好用啦都不好用啦好啦 報告委員我們召委再催我時間了啦"},{"start":8717.988,"end":8744.178,"text":"你這個博文已經問了很多次因為發生救援都是這樣子啦對然後你說他不可以惡意取消訂單他現在有見到投訴的是平台叫這些業者先先關一開先取消訂單就先關起來啦然後再重新訂價先關房再訂價那你叫他找平台算賬嘛"},{"start":8745.455,"end":8758.731,"text":"對不對他就知道說有一個大活動要到了那現在可以提高房價了所以大家都先把房間預訂關起來然後再提高定價這樣所以這個就是平台管理的問題"},{"start":8759.551,"end":8780.188,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們有特別有召開會議跟縣市政府在針對這個做法去做加強舉例你們應該要求這個平台要落地啦到台灣賺錢也不落地那也不繳稅好不好好現在部長謝謝謝謝林進憲委員發言完畢我們現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":8805.375,"end":8808.898,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8854.565,"end":8877.176,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8892.449,"end":8920.555,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8925.52,"end":8936.51,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9069.684,"end":9070.708,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9125.555,"end":9144.193,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":9150.247,"end":9168.148,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9197.688,"end":9227.466,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9257.671,"end":9260.009,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9321.749,"end":9326.101,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9385.615,"end":9407.484,"text":"好我們繼續開會現在請黃健豪委員發言好謝謝召委那我們一樣請交通部陳部長請陳部長然後我們一樣請這個觀光署陳玉秀署長請陳署長"},{"start":9414.252,"end":9438.96,"text":"委員好 部長好 署長好我想今天開始還是要跟大家討論一下我們觀光的問題當然這兩天有新聞披露說我們老牌的旅行社很多旅行社遭到勒令停業那觀光署公布了有46家名單這一方面反映出可能是國內的觀光產業相對的衝擊比較大但是今天不是要跟大家討論產業問題既然發生就發生但是我們要討論說民眾的消費者權益的問題"},{"start":9440.3,"end":9464.581,"text":"這觀光署公布的46家名單那新聞上跟政府都說提醒消費者不要被騙但是我想問一件事情是說我們這是我們政府的責任不然交通部觀光署裡面我們去公布因為每年海暑假之前都去公布這種旅行社的查核結果那公布完披露了資訊之後那還要做什麼事情我們有什麼責任嗎還是你們的責任是公布完就沒事了"},{"start":9469.002,"end":9495.409,"text":"是不是請旅行業組的組長可以啊是 跟委員報告我們其實這個是法定要公佈的事有時候我們會依照法規來公佈那公佈之後其實有一些狀況是譬如說他今天是因為財務狀況被我們停業的話我們就會請他提這個財務改善計畫那必須要確認他財務有改善之後我們才會復業如果他一直沒有改善就是停業那其實這個部分的作為也是為了要保障消費者的措施好 謝謝組長"},{"start":9496.849,"end":9519.323,"text":"我跟部長跟署長 我想要確認一件事情這是我每次看到這個新聞的 我的疑問想今天利用這個資訊來瞭解一下就是說其實我今天要問的問題是說那我作為消費者我是每次出遊之前我有義務跟責任我自己要去上觀光署的網站查詢說哪些被停業了嗎那還是說觀光署這邊有沒有去橫向聯繫包含說經濟部也好 金管也好"},{"start":9520.043,"end":9543.921,"text":"就這些被勒令停業被公告停業的廠商為什麼還會有消費者被騙是因為他還能收費嗎他還能繼續延攬生意嗎那其他在其他的平台上面他的網站上面或他的金流他的銀行帳戶還可以繼續收款嗎這件事情有人在處理嗎還是說今天他雖然被勒令停業已經一次是16家那我看那個清單上非常多家有的有名有的不有名"},{"start":9544.468,"end":9552.985,"text":"那今天他在他一樣照樣在假設他在報紙上或在網站上刊登這個招攬新的廣告他可能要賺最後一筆要跑路了不管他有什麼想法"},{"start":9554.056,"end":9581.085,"text":"他開始這樣廣告然後有相關的這個帳戶也都出來然後能夠去繳錢然後也付費了但結果發現女士已經被勒令停業了這是我可能是要費者事後才知道但是我問說事前或是你們在勒令停業的那一刻開始有沒有去做橫向聯繫讓相關部會包含是經管會經濟部也好去包含經濟部要停他的這個營業執照嘛那他的經管會他的銀行帳戶要被凍結或是不能再收這個相關款項嘛等等的這部分有沒有人在處理還是就公告就沒事了"},{"start":9582.543,"end":9602.015,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們其實一般會呼籲消費者就是你要找旅行社之前你要先到我們的那個官網上去查詢我們是會請他查詢合法旅行社所以這停業的名單不會在我們合法的旅行社裡面那剛剛委員有詢問到這個橫向聯繫部分那我們的旅行社其實現在如果被停業的話他就是不能再經營旅行業務"},{"start":9602.915,"end":9617.344,"text":"之前到現在我們都也沒有看到旅行社就是說他被停業之後他還有繼續去收款這些情形 沒有那我們會發現的話他通常有財務狀況的話我們會事先來來做相關的處理那停業之後他就不會再營業也沒有這樣子的案例"},{"start":9618.123,"end":9632.572,"text":"我先確認一下他是自己沒有做這件事他沒有做這件事還是他不能做但依法他不能做啦但是我的問題還是很明確就是說自家旅行社他的收款的這個他的公司帳戶或是負責人帳戶等等的有沒有被中或怎麼樣我想委員的問題蠻明確啦"},{"start":9634.193,"end":9654.933,"text":"就是說希望我們除了觀光署這邊勒令停業之後除了我們自己勒令停業應該橫向聯繫上也要通知到經濟部那邊甚至是經管會那邊讓他們清楚說後續的例如說金流的狀況就必須要被管控或者是說他的公司登記等等之類的這個部分就要有所處置"},{"start":9656.454,"end":9681.442,"text":"那這個部分其實是可以做的我們是不是請觀光署也朝這個方向就是我們勒令停業之後雖然說我們現在看起來勒令停業之後沒有發生後續委員所擔心的狀況但如果可以做得更仔細那當然是更好我們來討論一下看怎麼樣讓其他的橫向聯繫可以做得更完善那這個部分討論之後我們再跟委員來做說明好 謝謝部長我想這就是要"},{"start":9683.1,"end":9698.443,"text":"你們積極一點去把這個當然目前我照你們所說假設真的還沒有發生那未來可能會有人想到就是說就是經濟不好或怎麼樣一次46家我想這數字也相對比較震撼那可能不要說真的這個產業有些影響我們擔心的就是說像"},{"start":9699.184,"end":9721.516,"text":"就像詐騙問題是一樣的依法都不能說過去也沒想到會有人這樣被詐騙但是就是會有人想到這種途徑所以我們當然希望說至少在這個相關的這個金流上面能夠把它阻絕然後沒辦法繼續收費當然就不會有後續的問題這是我覺得感謝部長的回應那接下來我們討論一個舊議題之前上次我們也那個觀光署署長可以請回"},{"start":9723.038,"end":9728.786,"text":"之前我也諮詢過就是推動自行車旅遊這國人說法當然部分那當然後續交通部門有回我一個這個說明"},{"start":9730.967,"end":9760.148,"text":"你們說回去會討論檢討拿回一個說明那說明回來的結果其實跟之前是一樣的就是說還是一樣還是維持原規定就是說還是一樣車架的高度有限制然後建議可以往後面加裝這個車載的這個車可以裝在車後不要超過50公分這些都是本來就這樣子那上次提出來討論就是說有沒有可能去放寬相關的規定為什麼會做規定因為假設今天要推動綠色旅遊要推動自行車旅遊我們講一下國人目前以"},{"start":9761.008,"end":9774.436,"text":"先以你們上一次辦環法車賽的大會車的高度來講它那個休旅車的高度本身就已經很高了然後再加上自行車它一定超過法定限制這是第一件事情第二件事情是我按照國內"},{"start":9776.204,"end":9793.471,"text":"現在比較暢銷的幾個熱門的這個休旅車的款式車款平均高度大概就落到170到180左右公分它的高度大概是這樣子那如果再加上車架那加上這個單車的車高單車車高當然很多種車高那我們查了一下比較"},{"start":9794.707,"end":9808.552,"text":"通用的我們用UBIKE來舉例就好UBIKE的高度是105.5公分所以如果你的車身本身已經180了再加上車架再加上UBIKE以UBIKE為標準的話105公分你的高度一定就會超過285公分"},{"start":9810.333,"end":9831.739,"text":"那基本上你只要開車想要把這腳踏車運具再去任何一個地方去騎乘的話不管是參加比賽或是去觀光的用途它的高度會超過285公分它就有機會或一定就會收到罰單我想包含每年我們現在在日月潭每年既定雖然去年跟今年都有辦去年前年都有辦比賽今年也會辦比賽"},{"start":9832.999,"end":9860.437,"text":"這個大會的這些車這個大會的收容車或者是這些選手的這些車子相關的高度如果這個東西沒有放寬的話或是沒有去做特別處理的話它是不是繼續會有罰單的問題高委員其實大部分的車型都不會有這個問題福斯有一款車子是會有這個問題那很多的車子其實就像我們的建議放在車後的也相當多所以基本上會影響到的車型跟真正會影響到的民眾並不多"},{"start":9862.018,"end":9875.674,"text":"公路局這邊也有針對說實際上在檢視的過程當中該怎麼樣讓他在安全的條件之下能夠符合他們也有一些做法包含在檢驗的過程當中也有一些做法是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":9877.295,"end":9900.32,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下上次大概委員很關切這樣子的課題那回去我大概也請同仁就是說去把這個問題做一個了解那我先跟委員報告就是說這個小型車上面放這個自行車的一個部分的話大概有分這一個兩種一種是這個家庭用的那另外一種就是剛剛委員講的參加競賽有點類似保姆車這樣子的部分"},{"start":9900.82,"end":9920.822,"text":"那一般如果是我們駕用的部分大概一般的休旅車高度大概這個OK那如果說是屬於大型競賽他們那個保姆車大概都用福斯的車型那福斯這個相對這一個就是這一個比較高就會有這樣子的一個情況那我所了解目前實務的狀況那有些這個保姆車要去克服這樣的情況就是拆輪胎然後降低這個高度"},{"start":9921.763,"end":9944.468,"text":"目前我大概那另外一個部分有些是這個把它放在這一個保母車裡面那另外一種是後面有用輕型半舟車的一個方式去做但是我現在就是說請這個局裡面同仁跟車安中心去比對先就是說這些相關車型的一個部分因為如果說要在這一個放寬等等部分的話就必須要考慮到因為一上去的話"},{"start":9945.328,"end":9966.876,"text":"有這些保護車有很多是這個要行駛高速公路做運送的部分那個風阻的部分還有安全的部分就必須要做考量那這個部分局裡面現在有在通盤做一個這個檢視那我跟委員報告如果說在安全的條件之下這個高度可以做一個調整的話我們會盡可能我朝這個方向來做調整但是還是要以這個安全為前提"},{"start":9967.403,"end":9997.043,"text":"好當然安全很重要這沒有問題那當然說這個高度限制這個定下的規定因為這個討論我說真的這大概也十幾年討論了我在 survey 相關資料的時候上次最早相關的新聞可能出現在2013年之類就十幾年前了就開始討論這件事情那已經過十幾年後我想現在的車子的它的技術它的高度跟過去相比應該相對比較進步一點它的車架的能耐和相關的這個設備應該也有進步很多所以我覺得這個要盡快的還是要去做新的檢討不要一直"},{"start":9998.263,"end":10024.67,"text":"沒守成規啦 我講真的就是這樣好不好 可以嗎好 謝謝委員 在安全的前提之下我們來做討論好 謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員發言完畢現在請陳雪生委員發言好 謝謝主席是不是請交通部陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":10037.223,"end":10060.851,"text":"什麼叫偏鄉 解釋一下偏鄉 交通相對不便那經濟條件相對沒有這麼方便的地方什麼叫離島離島就是台灣島以外的島都是離島偏鄉跟離島重要嗎"},{"start":10062.182,"end":10083.801,"text":"都很重要不重要就把它切掉一塊就把它切掉剩下台灣本島就好了嘛對不對南部如果愛手愛腳的話切掉剩下台北市就好了嘛這個就偏鄉離島嘛對不對我記得我當國大代表的時候啊我去總統府李登輝總統召見他說你們馬祖人啊那麼少"},{"start":10086.004,"end":10113.376,"text":"沒幾戶嘛你把馬祖那個搬到台灣來我們蓋國民住宅給你就好了花那麼多錢搞機場高碼都幹什麼李登輝總統這樣的想法我們回來以後講給老闆一定罵翻了我跟你講今天就跟川普總統講啊格陵蘭島我就是要你是不是你什麼格陵蘭沒幾個人嘛我就要你格陵蘭啊可以這樣嗎"},{"start":10115.795,"end":10145.005,"text":"這兩天我們前政務委員張景生先生發表一個謬論他說 桃園的高鐵為什麼要地下化為什麼要地下化台鐵地下化還是高鐵高鐵本來在桃園有地下化要地下化 多五六百億吧他不需要 問題正在通過啦那今天馬九大橋多少年了"},{"start":10147.394,"end":10164.087,"text":"這個案子是賴院長在任最後一天我們總統啊 我跑到行政院找他為什麼 張景生政委在上面寫了一大堆的字我找古拉斯 那時候還是發言人賴前總統很理喻我很像在開會吧 跑出來"},{"start":10174.09,"end":10203.143,"text":"他找那個張哲偉把那個字除掉他寫了一大堆啊除掉啊然後這個案把它確立是賴總統任院長的時候把它批定 核定的喔核定 所以花了一億五千萬來做可行性的評估那今天已經多少年下來了你說是工程技術的問題技術也沒問題啊什麼時代了還在扯技術啊"},{"start":10204.141,"end":10230.878,"text":"你台灣不要被人家笑死好不好三公里在講技術喔 笑死人啦然後講經費的問題經費最近世襲也出包了嘛 對不對我們台電六接從一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億一直加 一直加 一直加 疊加說虛編那我今天早上還跟鄭裕萌董事長通電話"},{"start":10233.444,"end":10260.823,"text":"你這個馬祖大橋從八十幾億 七十幾億搞到一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億 四百多億那麼你講什麼四千億好了 不要做了怎麼可以這樣子搞呢部長我請問你到底做還是不做不要再拖了我們目前都還在程序的過程所以當時的政策方向就是往前走嘛你聽一下 昨天公路總局什麼意思我要你們十一月份開會"},{"start":10262.571,"end":10288.12,"text":"你們十一月份開會 我正好pass過去了 我沒空我說十二月份開會 我要去你們十二月份會就不開了現在是幾月 一月是不是你們去了一張公文給連江縣政府請連江縣政府去調查我們的原住民去調查這個橋要不要蓋你們在講什麼啊你問這東西幹什麼 我請問你"},{"start":10291.857,"end":10313.931,"text":"跟委員報告就是11月開完第一次工作會議完之後那委員在也這個關切說第二次會議的時候要來參加那我這邊也一直在籌備第二次會議啦那因為我說每個月開一次啊你們有沒有反對啊你現在第二個月了你不開然後現在在執行台上面回答我說在籌備"},{"start":10314.741,"end":10341.306,"text":"跟委員報告並不是這個不開因為第一次會議這個開完之後也是希望說這個第二次會議能夠如期來做這一個進行啦好 你要連江縣政府說這個橋蓋還是不蓋什麼意思跟委員報告下因為當時院核複有一些意見要再做檢討再做這個確認所以這個部分的話誰核複嘛 誰核複嘛這個院核複的這個意見下來那有些因為你們是誰囉你跟我拿給我看"},{"start":10343.696,"end":10354.934,"text":"跟我們報告一下就是說這些意見我不曉得行政院裡面有多少個張景生啊張景生現在是誰啊他是政委員嗎他只是一個老百姓而已你知道嗎"},{"start":10356.36,"end":10382.461,"text":"他在網路上隨便寫一些文章我當一個立法委員就要回答他問題喔很像說我腦殘啊是不是這樣跟張前政委的意見無關怎麼會無關呢因為這個案子就陳武剛剛部長所提的部分是在程序當中因為有報上去然後這個意見必須要再做檢討那我們現在跟縣府也在就是說相關的一個意見的檢討卻張景深政委已經打臉賴清德總統"},{"start":10385.848,"end":10411.685,"text":"他認為這不可行 你賴清德總統你這個腦袋有問題他在打臉他了你們政務體系的政務官你們不用替賴總統來講話嗎你們不用解釋一下什麼原因嗎是不是馬祖未來的前途就在這裡你們怎麼可以這樣子部長你回答我 到底編還是不編"},{"start":10413.069,"end":10427.025,"text":"你編還是不編你講清楚報告員不做就算了你講一句話現在還沒有到編跟不編的點那要拖多久因為現在行政院你拖到國民黨執政還是拖到共產黨執政你要拖到什麼時候"},{"start":10428.697,"end":10457.414,"text":"我們還是按照程序在走啦程序走八年啦交通部在努力的過程您也都參與在內您應該很清楚交通部一直程序一直往前在走啦你部長失職嘛你部長為什麼這個案子可以讓他拖那麼久你部長有問題啊交通的建設尤其這種大型的建設不是交通部說可以就可以不是 你不敢跟院長反映嗎"},{"start":10458.513,"end":10487.924,"text":"你不敢跟總統報告嗎這個案子怎麼可以這樣拖那麼久陳允聖在先不是沒有聲音耶我現在每一次的質疑我都要提到這個馬嘴大喬我每一個案子在政府部門都會有很嚴謹的審查哪一次不嚴謹嘛你說嘛交通部的部分花了一億五千萬耶花了一億五千萬不嚴謹嗎錢都花完了耶白花花的銀子你現在不找司機重新再去整理一下是不是要三百八十億嘛你問清楚嘛"},{"start":10489.212,"end":10516.098,"text":"是不是 前面有個台鐵的不是台電的六階的工程已經虛編了嘛你到底虛編了多少嘛你把真實的這個預算把它呈現嘛好不好我們不是不考慮啦好不好我來找世西也討論一下啦好 另外一個喔講到公安署那個福山局長你也在我問公安署他說你們錢沒有到位給他們"},{"start":10519.434,"end":10522.623,"text":"我們觀光署的補助倒退了台灣好行"},{"start":10525.325,"end":10551.304,"text":"以前給一千萬一年現在給四百萬你要我們公關倒退是不是包委員在新的這個財化法裡面確實公路局能夠補助給地方的財化法不會少你一毛錢我跟福山局長保證其實真的有少我是國民黨的立委我站在這裡這裡是交通委員會我保證不會少你一毛錢我保證沒關係我一個人可以打十幾二十個"},{"start":10552.506,"end":10559.176,"text":"我不諱言啦我們國民黨黨團這邊我也沒關係啦我一定會幫你們講這話但是你全部人少"},{"start":10560.27,"end":10586.51,"text":"你不能少你這個錢不能少好不好少了多少是不是我請局長回答報告委員大概就是我昨天跟你報告就是說以往這個公務局供應這個經費好啦你昨天講過了啦你把錢給公安署公安署把錢給地方就這麼回事啦但問題是他沒錢你說錢他你錢沒給會給嘛給完以後你馬上就要給了好不好可是問題是他沒有錢就不只我們一個縣市挖挖叫欸各縣市都在挖挖叫好不好"},{"start":10587.916,"end":10612.628,"text":"還有那個橋子那個工程做一半放那邊公安署你們錢要給錢啊橋子頭端就大邱橋那裡有沒有頭端啊頭端的預算啊案子還沒完"},{"start":10615.472,"end":10637.185,"text":"這個應該是跟縣政府還在討論啦兩邊還在討論部長 馬祖大橋的預算我今年要看到你們上預算還有福山局長你這邊你要通知我開會喔再忙我都會去你不通知我開會就會生氣喔我要注意交通部你們在幹什麼好不好 謝謝謝謝陳雪生委員發言完畢"},{"start":10643.083,"end":10655.568,"text":"好 謝謝陳雪生委員我們接下來請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在"},{"start":10656.956,"end":10673.029,"text":"我們也特別謝謝邱若驊委員臨時通知你趕過來因為何欣淳委員因有要事沒有來發言所以特別請你們黨團助理請你趕過來不好意思那我們現在請邱若驊委員發言"},{"start":10682.654,"end":10687.981,"text":"謝謝主席 請交通部陳部長也請鐵道局楊局長請陳部長 請楊局長委員好部長好"},{"start":10698.116,"end":10723.829,"text":"部長今天首先要和部長還有局長討論鐵路地下化那依鐵道局公開資料看起來桃園鐵路地下化目前的關鍵不在於明年有沒有錢而是已經編列的經費它執行不順那其中CJ13站中壢站它歷經了五次的流標那延宕也超過了一年才決標那這延宕不只影響中壢站本身它也影響南端CJ17站平正端"},{"start":10724.309,"end":10747.345,"text":"那平震端的部分他完工後是否能夠通車那想請教局長部長那目前在這個排程中是否已經將CJ13站他這個中壢站他列為主要影響整體進度的關鍵標案報告委員13是桃園 17才是中壢那目前的標標的進度我請局長回答"},{"start":10748.327,"end":10775.47,"text":"跟委員報告其實CJ17是我們中立站那這個CJ17在113年3月就已經決標那現在都在這個積極的進行相關的工程當中那CJ17其實在這個目前為止原來決標金額是156億到目前為止已經執行了15億多所以我想在115年度我們這個工程還是有需要"},{"start":10776.29,"end":10798.142,"text":"後續的一些經費來做支援有沒有去做評估它之後會有什麼影響嗎因為目前它延宕一年中壢已經延宕一年了沒有錯嗎那它會影響它後續平震端這個個人平震端的因為平震是臨時站的平震臨時站的部分我們在今年10月會按照這個目標啟程來通車啟用"},{"start":10800.783,"end":10827.213,"text":"那地下化的這個路段呢現在爆出去的修正計畫呢是全縣市在122年要能夠完工通車所以沒有任何一個車站可以落掉也就是說不管哪個車站先做後做其實我們是按照工程的躍進來去做安排的那今天主要會有這個問題是因為那過去有多個標案它是流標的流標嘛那也不是因為預算沒有通過的關係吧不是這個關係沒有錯吧"},{"start":10829.403,"end":10842.883,"text":"對 那因為在前年就絕標了是因為單價變低而且它風險高所以廠商不願意投標那我們現在來看115年的預算別列和相關工程的標案定價是否已經有反映最新的營建物價指數"},{"start":10844.858,"end":10861.011,"text":"他有沒有反映在最新的營建物價指數有 就是我們現在修正的已經發包的這些標都是有按照最新的這個營建行情物價指數去完成發包那後續我們現在還有內力鳳鳴"},{"start":10863.072,"end":10875.618,"text":"這個三個標案在等待發報那這個部分的話就是要等修正計畫來通過那目前來看的話呢還在我們的掌控期程當中但我們期望今年下半年可以完成內地站的這樣的一個發報"},{"start":10876.713,"end":10895.136,"text":"是了解那因為中立站是全線最困難的一區嘛那他起步也算晚那因為他經歷中間也經歷5次的流標那他有嚴重影響壓縮影響到電機的電機進場的時間那目前憑證斷的他局長他的進度是正常的嗎憑證斷現在進度正常"},{"start":10897.1,"end":10921.79,"text":"另外在113年的時候我們有到桃園進行考察當時本席有向部長提到大溪就是我們地方桃園的捷運綠線希望能夠延伸到大溪大溪老街道到河東局長這邊有沒有掌握進度還有狀況我所知桃園市政府應該還沒有把修正後的報告送進來"},{"start":10922.56,"end":10932.812,"text":"所以那我這邊了解到是他們去年年底就已經修正後宋經理那可能對不起我可能回頭再確認一下如果宋經理我們會按照程序來做這個必要的一些審查"},{"start":10933.157,"end":10958.343,"text":"是那部長這邊因為當時113年我們有進行地方考察那地方一直很希望大溪不只是到就是河溪因為大溪地形的關係您也知道有分河東跟河溪我們希望這條捷運綠線呢它也可以過橋到河東那技術上面其實還有一些困難所以這邊希望能夠支持才能帶動大溪整體的觀光還有交通的效益"},{"start":10958.903,"end":10969.564,"text":"是 報告委員現在已經送進來那個鐵道局了嘛那鐵道局會來進行審議那這個部分細節我們再來想辦法來協助我們現在部裡面也在審查當中了"},{"start":10969.926,"end":10988.717,"text":"OK好那另外接下來要和部長討論就是剛剛我們討論到桃園鐵路地下化那我們來看工程執行方面的監管問題那這個施工期間他一定會產生大量的土方那一直以來就是我們避免亂到土方的問題嘛那國土署他也規定土方車輛都要裝設GPS"},{"start":10990,"end":11011.369,"text":"那目前國土署還有環境部對GPS的規範還在討論中那業界也都知道這套系統它其實是有漏洞的所以這邊也提出要求那交通部作為車輛的主管機關必須解決技術性上面的困難嗎那我們先來看到部長您知道有市面上有一個東西它叫做車窗型的GPS感染器嗎"},{"start":11012.879,"end":11034.149,"text":"車窗型的干擾器 車窗型的GPS干擾器那這樣的干擾這樣的干擾器他一個幾千塊他插上去之後訊號就會斷了那現在GPS他本身的監控平台是被動的那訊息訊息斷了之後呢他只會顯示異常得到承辦人員發現異常之後土方早就被倒在不該倒的地方那另外還有ABG的問題"},{"start":11035.149,"end":11051.164,"text":"那有一些不肖的業者他會他會有這個ABG一台是他乖乖跑他的路線那另外一台呢他裝在另外一台車上那這邊想請教部長那未來我們大型的交通公共建設我們是不是可以來研議就是把訊號中斷視同為違規寫到合約裡面"},{"start":11056.768,"end":11076.265,"text":"報告委員因為這個土方的管理是內政部國土署在管理的所以今天要和部長討論是車輛因為車輛管理是在我們交通部是監理機關車輛本身的安全跟規格那個管理是我們但是實際上這個土方的GPS的這個管控的部分是國土署"},{"start":11076.505,"end":11101.895,"text":"因為現在有進行討論嘛 是不是希望中央跟地方他們都可以來 就是地方也有一套他們GPS的管理系統那中央這邊也有 那我們現在要討論中央的部分借接的是內政部國土署他的資料不會進到我們公路局這邊來對 那現在我們現在討論說這個GPS他裝載 現在砂石車他們也要定期做檢驗的嘛那這個機器要怎麼來做檢驗呢我請局長回答好了"},{"start":11103.178,"end":11123.255,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個GPS的一個部分的話它基本上就是一個軌跡的定位然後跟訊號的這個花色那這個相關的一個運作燈的部分在這個國土署那邊或是地方政府現在採雙軌他們都有一個這個平台在做控管那另外我也跟委員報告一下"},{"start":11123.735,"end":11149.722,"text":"像現行毒化物按照環境部的要求都必須要裝GPS所以它整個車機的規格因為他們都必須要裝GPS那我剛才也提到就是有這個GPS的干擾器它不一定是它只要訊號一出現斷點那我們再後續討論誰來做誰來做管理誰來做追查那像計程車它是不是有跳表對那這個跳表是誰管的計程車跳表這個簽網的部分是經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":11150.956,"end":11179.501,"text":"那計程車是不是都要定期也是回到就是監理機關對 但是監理機關的檢驗是就車輛安全的部分我知道委員的意思是說我們這個在檢驗的時候檢驗人員可不可以這個幫忙去看一下這個GPS是不是這個OK不OK的部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個部分的話這個基本上就是說GPS這個系統是不是這個運作正常的部分那個是實際運作狀況的部分"},{"start":11179.981,"end":11196.273,"text":"那交通部這邊有沒有辦法來做跟我有辦法真的是沒有辦法因為那個系統因為車輛本身安全的部分我們有一套這個法規在這個依照法規來做這個檢驗那像GPS它裝在裡面的話真的"},{"start":11197.434,"end":11226.003,"text":"第一個部分不是屬於車輛安全的項目那第二個部分的話其實外保看得說有裝一個GPS在那邊但是這個一上路之後是因為就近期的會議國土署跟環境部他們也有邀集交通部嘛對對對對那交通部這邊負責的選擇是什麼在幾次會議裡面大概就是裝GPS的部分的話大概就是回歸他們那個那因為在幾次會議有討論到就是剛剛這個委員簡報裡面有提到說小貨車可不可以開放來這個在土方砂石"},{"start":11226.423,"end":11245.737,"text":"那這個部分的話我跟委報告所以就當天交通部這邊完全沒有討論到GPS的經驗對對對因為我這邊順便跟委報告一下那如果那發生我剛才提到的A B G的狀況你們要這個責任歸屬在誰這個部分這個就是國土署就會依他們的規定來開罰國土署嗎對對對國土署會依規定開罰"},{"start":11247.958,"end":11268.803,"text":"OK 好 那剛剛就鐵道局的部分再請楊局長這邊會後再提供相關的資料就是有關我們桃園鐵路地下化的進度OK 然後還有大溪的我們桃園捷運綠線延伸延伸的案 OK好 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱若驊委員發言完畢現在請廖先祥委員發言"},{"start":11278.73,"end":11289.485,"text":"謝謝主席 一樣麻煩邀請我們部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長請楊局長台鐵公司請鄭光源董事長還有公路局局長請林虎山局長"},{"start":11291.766,"end":11310.506,"text":"委員好部長好今天也算是這個會期最後一次委員會開會了那我想還是來盤點一下我這個選區內的重大的交通建設的一些現況跟我們未來的一個的一個這個可能預估的規劃那簡單的看能不能跟我簡單說明一下第一個就是我們的"},{"start":11312.227,"end":11335.413,"text":"這個台六十二線延伸萬里金山的部分還有宜蘭的部分這可能都有經過我的選區那第二個就是這個台北民生線捷運的部分的一個現在整合的一個過程那就先請我們看部長還是局長沒關係都可以首先跟委員報告就是說我們關鍵那個台六十二往西往東的部分那這兩個計畫我們都是按照這個目標時程在推進這個當中"},{"start":11336.753,"end":11350.299,"text":"那這一個就是說往西的部分那大概我們也在規劃就是說這一個前島工程包括景美路還有那個另外一條就是彎道下面去以後要出土的那個部分我們也在規劃要拖寬"},{"start":11350.868,"end":11369.848,"text":"然後那另外廣東的部分那這個院裡面也非常這個陳志文那邊也非常這個關切也在關切說如何相關的這個期程可以在這一個加速那這兩個計畫的部分這可能環評啊或是綜合國家報告或是氣色相關的期程有沒有相關的一些進度或者是預計可以跟民眾來說明"},{"start":11370.97,"end":11384.568,"text":"西部的部分我是不是會後提供一個書面資料給你因為兩個計劃有些細節的部分我再提供書面資料給你所以台六的網西原則上應該現在應該在重規跟環評當中那我們預計今年或明年可不可以走完"},{"start":11386.453,"end":11400.932,"text":"先導工程的部分我們是預計說明年可以有一個先導工程先導工程明年的部分先做先動工那廣東到投誠那個部分的話因為廣東這個可能行政院剛核定嘛那你們的重規跟環評大概哪時候要啟動"},{"start":11402.21,"end":11423.657,"text":"現在已經在做這個就是中規的招標的一個上網作業當中準備中規的招標的前置作業那個部分的話因為計畫比較大那個相關前置作業準備需要一點時間但是都是on schedule在做處理好 謝謝局長那接下來我們台北名勝縣的捷運是不是"},{"start":11424.98,"end":11452.112,"text":"局長可以說明一下我們現在之前有拜託我們鐵道局整合一下三四尤其是機場部分的一個經費分攤的一些問題不曉得我們現在的進度是怎麼樣跟委員報告就是明汐縣的要增設八堵機場的這樣的一個經費分攤因為它涉及到明汐縣這個計畫跟系統結緣計畫還有基隆結緣這個計畫那鐵道局在1月16號有召集相關單位來做開會演商"},{"start":11452.992,"end":11480.327,"text":"那當然因為這裡面的這個方案的分攤它的經費來說相對比較複雜一點但是我們有一個結論就是說基本上八堵機場的這個經費必須要納入明細縣的這個計畫裡面去做處理那怎麼樣去減少這個行政上的成本也就是說怎麼在明細縣這個計畫裡面呢可不可以透過不同的負擔比例來去做處理而不要去動到另外兩個計畫我覺得相對是比較複雜"},{"start":11481.648,"end":11504.193,"text":"所以我們後續還會再跟這個新北市政府還有台北市政府來做那我們預計下一次的會議我們預計哪時候要可能這段時間要收集資料整理一些大家意見那我們預計下一階段哪時候在藥急山的地方政府前一次是還沒有規劃我想我們再來催促一下這個新北市政府因為上一次您說1月16對不對對好不好你們應該是給一個期限然後請他們整理一下資料在一定的時間內我們再來積極的討論再拜託我們的局長再幫那個林局長先休息一下沒關係"},{"start":11510.054,"end":11526.112,"text":"好 那部長那我今天要跟您討論的另外一個是我們台鐵啦台鐵的一個運輸效率的問題因為我們的軌道現在就是這樣子那我們的其實在尖峰時刻那在北部的這個軌道容量的運輸大概都已經使用到達上限了啦那其實一直以來我們今天都有在講這個"},{"start":11528.254,"end":11553.574,"text":"避手區間的問題我們現在的台鐵原則上都是用固定式避手區間對不對那很多的民眾都提到說那我們有沒有辦法把它做一些規劃把它變成移動式的避手區間來增加我們鐵道的容量讓我們有可能有更多的車輛能夠通行那不曉得實務上這可能是民間的意見還是說我們有沒有做過相關的評估那它的可行性是怎麼樣子的"},{"start":11554.495,"end":11570.94,"text":"包委員 這個牽涉到耗資相關相當複雜的這個內容我在想說要不要請市長還是總經理這邊來因為我們軌道不沒關係 誰講都可以因為軌道不可能拓寬了嘛我們唯一有機會的就是就從耗資系統下去改變那有沒有機會那它或者說困難點在哪一邊我有麥克風"},{"start":11576.123,"end":11602.507,"text":"報告委員 就是移動式比賽的區間 剛剛委員講沒有錯我們現在就是固定比賽一個固定比賽大概1.5到2公里左右 是 那移動比賽現在目前針對傳統鐵路各國現在目前並沒有做到移動比賽 是 只有在捷運系統有做到CBTC就是列車互相通訊那這個部分在德國的這個Stuttgart"},{"start":11603.027,"end":11628.988,"text":"跟這個JR的系統現在有在做研究但都僅止於POC就是概念驗證的階段那所以目前如果要在台鐵來利用這種移動式比賽的系統耗制系統來提升運能短期是幾乎是不可能那我們有要做相關的研究嗎你說可能德國做一些研究或者說國外的研究的經驗我們有沒有在參考"},{"start":11630.117,"end":11645.178,"text":"有我們現在先前也都有透過跟幾位幾個高科大或是我們的中研院工研院都有集合相關專家學者有做過探討好像要"},{"start":11645.979,"end":11672.014,"text":"先做類參考國外的這個開發的經驗來做一個專案不過這個目前都還是在我想總經理意思表達應該是理論上可行但是實務上可能會因為可能列車種類太過複雜導致他在實施上面有一些困難但是這一點但是這個方案是唯一目前唯一可能增加我們鐵道運輸量能的唯一的方式"},{"start":11672.954,"end":11696.602,"text":"對就一個是透過移動B賽他也是會縮短列車間距另外一個是先前有討論過就是把B賽區間把它縮短但是B賽區間縮短必須要增加這個道旁的耗資系統所以那個投入的成本會很高好我想這部分也要可能請我們交通部支持一下鐵道剛剛有講過不可能拓寬的容量就這樣子我們"},{"start":11698.102,"end":11724.47,"text":"車已經就這麼多的在跑了我們也不可能再像高鐵一樣還可以加車對不對 台鐵還要有容量我們高鐵還有容量台鐵沒有容量對啊 那就是說在現有的條件下再拜託我們的部長公關運輸再請您多給無論是可能鐵道局做研究或者台鐵公司地線營運等等的我們再給一些支持 好不好那另外再提一個小的問題其實這個跟你的業務也沒什麼關係但是我是覺得你也可以盡一份心力的部分就是小樹市集你有沒有聽過"},{"start":11726.334,"end":11740.842,"text":"小樹市集小樹市集你沒聽過小樹市集他大概就是一個這個很多家長啦那些小朋友的東西換得很快嘛對不對那所以說他們就是有一些二手的一些小朋友的東西都會大家交流一下擺個攤那其實這個東西在雙北我"},{"start":11741.562,"end":11757.518,"text":"在雙北很盛行我不知道有沒有慢慢地往可能中南部去延伸那它就需要一個很大的公共的一個場域那其實在地方政府它都有支持那我有想其實我們交通部下面有台鐵對不對但是我們的台鐵因為我們是營運單位所以它都有一些"},{"start":11759.38,"end":11775.416,"text":"這個場地出租的辦法無論是盈利型的或是公益型的其實它這樣子的一個租金的收取模式它是沒有辦法讓小數市集在這邊去設置的因為小數市集它的本身的精神它並不是要賺錢或盈利而是基於資源永續爸爸媽媽覺得資源這個東西用沒幾次"},{"start":11778.439,"end":11797.852,"text":"大家來交換對 大家來交換一下這樣子的一個概念我是覺得大家可以評估一下因為我們地方政府既然都可以把這個空間拿出來來做爸爸媽媽的一個交流的場域我覺得我們台鐵我知道有現行的規定既然有現行的規定那我們就是要去做一些突破我覺得可以參考地方政府的一些經驗把我們的台鐵也可以跟友善育兒或者是"},{"start":11803.316,"end":11819.284,"text":"這個資源的永續利用去做一個結合啦我就是認為交通部這不是你的業務但是我認為這是你們或許可以做一件這個對國家也是有幫助的事情我們這個交通廠商的部分我們都一併來討論討論看有沒有這樣的可能性好 謝謝部長 謝謝各位長官謝謝主席謝謝廖青祥委員發言完畢現在請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":11836.434,"end":11863.114,"text":"主席有請部長請陳部長還有觀光署請陳署長部長好委員好這個有關這個觀光發展條例本席要提修正條文這個交通部的意見認為這個原住民保留地及山地管制區在這個"},{"start":11865.583,"end":11893.446,"text":"自然人文生態景觀期這邊你們認為不宜刪除這個我來說這個發展光條例第二條對於自然人文生態景觀期刪除了並不表示在原住民保留地如果是符合這個自然人文生態景觀期這個定義的這樣的條件的"},{"start":11895.305,"end":11917.537,"text":"一樣可以 一樣可以 而只是說不要特別放在這裡最主要就是說 譬如說原住民保留地3T管制區以外的土地你符合的你還是要列為自然人文生態景觀區譬如說軍事管制區"},{"start":11919.133,"end":11943.31,"text":"有符合的還是要列入所以這個部分我們主條的時候也可以再討論但是我先說明你們回去之後再好好去了解第一個原住民保留地開發管理辦法對於原住民保留地有定義為保障原住民生計你把它放在這裡好像就影響了就會產生這樣的疑問"},{"start":11945.017,"end":11957.954,"text":"另外就是國家安全法對於3D管制期它主要的用意是在維護3D治安對不對然後你看這個尤其是後面這個"},{"start":11959.659,"end":11982.539,"text":"三地特定管制区三地管制区分两种一个经常的管制区一个是特定管制区特定管制区还特别提到游弃资源得抵抗人力从事观光旅游及正当娱乐活动所以这个部分会有一个汉格所以我删除了并不表示"},{"start":11983.533,"end":12010.744,"text":"就完全不能在原住民保留地來去只要符合這個自然生態這個部分當然就可以還是我們不會去動它是這樣你們再去評估一下下次審查條文的時候那因為時間的關係我還是直接跳到這個先從這邊談了那個跟公安署就沒有關係了"},{"start":12014.445,"end":12035.066,"text":"這個部長這個我已經提了很多次你也聽了很多次了因為115年度現在已經開始115年度了因為都沒有核定所以115年度也不可能了但是我們還是希望交通部能夠積極的跟"},{"start":12037.746,"end":12064.114,"text":"行政院溝通好因為你現在不核定的話你116年又不能編列預算會有這樣的一個情形這個狀況所以尤其是這個台鐵宜花東路段鐵路設施安全改善計畫有很重要的一個路段就是"},{"start":12065.438,"end":12082.55,"text":"核能到崇德這段而這段不論是鐵路或者是蘇花公路都連帶的關係是連帶的所以這個部分是一個在整個"},{"start":12085.638,"end":12113.93,"text":"花蓮台東很重要的一個路段所以這個部分一定要跟這個行政院做詳細的說明這個也沒有很多啦這個計畫也沒有像那個今天很多人談的這個要到高鐵的延伸不論是高鐵的延伸是到宜蘭還是到屏東"},{"start":12115.82,"end":12142.118,"text":"這個都小額課的經費是不是這樣 副長是 報告委員不管預算大或小但是安全的議題是很重要那這個部分我們會努力來跟行政院這邊來拜託跟溝通那希望可以趕快核定我們可以趕快來做對 因為因為基本上這個經費真的不多不是很大如果要去跟這個"},{"start":12144.531,"end":12158.22,"text":"這個高鐵的延伸來比當然高鐵延伸我們不反對啦那到底用什麼方式延伸這個就花蓮台東的人而言都是有幫助啦你延伸到屏東跟延伸到"},{"start":12159.79,"end":12184.095,"text":"到這個宜蘭對花蓮台東也都有幫助都會比較近比較方便對所以這個部分是延伸的方式怎麼樣那是我們都不反對但是就這個安全就花蓮台東而言無論是鐵路或是公路的安全的部分這個真的是非常非常的重要所以這個部分要請這個部長"},{"start":12185.1,"end":12204.34,"text":"我們會來跟行政院來爭取因為這個對花東鄉親來說很重要這個尤其是安全的問題特別重要現在已經反正一百一十五年度也來不及編預算早一點核定就一百一十六也是明年的預算了好不好好我們來努力 謝謝委員"},{"start":12206.397,"end":12230.982,"text":"好謝謝鄭天才委員發言完畢現在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在現在請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在現在請張雅玲委員發言"},{"start":12240.917,"end":12267.712,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請部長請陳部長委員好部長我先請教一個問題就是對於最新人非常關注的一個題目就是去年的時候我們有說我們要編列這個預算辦那個國際的大型的演唱會要吸引更多人來參可以讓我們的台灣最新人也可以觀賞對不對但是現在的總預算有到底上次我們這一條有被提出來討論嗎"},{"start":12269.355,"end":12298.409,"text":"我們在整體裡面有沒有放進來應該是有放進來有放進來我是在總預算的這個那我可以請署長來回答嗎好光屬的年度新增計畫裡面光屬的年度新增計畫裡面他當然是很重要的一件事情不過在上次有特別提出來討論的幾個案件裡面我們沒有備函在裡面"},{"start":12299.042,"end":12325.882,"text":"你們沒有被含在捏也就是說原本交通部要做觀光署要做一個大型的這個國際的演唱會不僅可以帶動台灣的觀光然後也可以讓台灣的人追台灣的追星人受益的這件事情呢是被國民黨跟民眾黨給忽視的對嗎 我這樣的理解正確嗎對嗎 部長所以等於是我們的全體國人的這個追星人的權益因此而受損 對嗎"},{"start":12327.234,"end":12352.166,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們還有在總預算裡面但是沒有被列出來是優先的這一塊總預算我們有編啦就是總預算沒有省也就省了但是因為它總預算它沒有優先然後也沒有省沒錯所以這個部分我們的權益確實受到影響我們本來是計畫因為坦白講理解演唱會的人都知道這個需要一段時間的爭取跟溝通我知道去年就已經在做這個洽談是我們前置的作業盡量能夠提早"},{"start":12352.406,"end":12373.727,"text":"但是预算没有下来基本上我们现在要跟国外的艺人或者是公安公司等等去沟通的时候就会遇到很大的困难所以这个确实应该档期都不可能巧了很难巧应该是今年要落空了会非常非常不好做坦白讲这个确实会影响到我们争取国际的这个标杆旗舰型的演唱会受到很大的影响"},{"start":12374.911,"end":12395.984,"text":"對 所以我想就是這個對於全體的最新人來說是我們非常關注的一件事情可是這件事情卻因為我們的國民黨到民眾黨到這個禮拜還不審總預算那甚至這件事情也沒有被提出來討論而造成了全體國人的受益那我想這件事情是非常不OK的一件事情那接下來我就要針對這一次的審查觀光發展條例上面來跟部長做更多的討論就是部長我想跟"},{"start":12397.424,"end":12423.949,"text":"跟您提一下就是國際不然是Grandview Research或是President's Research上面都有講到我們的全球的生態旅遊產值是相當高的甚至從我們自己的2024年的年度報告也都發現我們有65%的人是非常喜歡是非常喜歡來參加這個台灣的生態旅遊我們的自然景觀其實是非常有競爭力的那"},{"start":12426.169,"end":12446.81,"text":"所以呢我們在2002年的時候呢當時其實是有做了一個生態旅遊白皮書但是就沒有之後了那我們現在遇到一個困境就是說生態旅遊在全世界這麼的發達那國外的旅客也很喜歡來看可是我們現在生態旅遊分散在國家公園法發展觀光條例和森林法"},{"start":12447.35,"end":12458.506,"text":"不同的法規裡面有不同的部會各自去管理那雖然說2002年有這個跨部會的小組提出了這樣子的一個白皮書那當初的建議事項其實都已經達成了"},{"start":12459.431,"end":12477.779,"text":"但是這麼多年過去了我們還是遇到了很多的食物上的問題也就是說現在社區有自主的協會培訓居民來擔任導覽員像是阿里山 拉拉山 宜蘭結合了農作體驗跟步道健行的一些主題課程強調低衝擊旅遊和在地飲食來吸引了我們所謂的國際的旅客"},{"start":12478.619,"end":12505.336,"text":"第二個部分還有跨區域的聯盟整合像是台灣生態旅遊與地方創生聯盟整合了65個社區把一些林山的景點串聯起來像是六龜的三半路線來提供更多的半日遊業遊等多元選擇第三種還有我們這幾年講的希望可以回鄉創業返鄉青年他們其實也透過政府的補助把我們一些林山的景觀跟文化品牌化來平衡保育跟獲利"},{"start":12506.417,"end":12530.416,"text":"那現在就有一個最大的爭議在於許多的社區旅遊產品因為沒有取得旅行社的執照而被檢舉所以這些返鄉青年因為常常遇到這些所謂的檢舉是非違法經營那不勝其擾的團隊其實最後就是會放棄他原本經營的這個產品跟這個路線那有一些人可能就會轉成地下化那或是借用旅行社的牌照並支付佣金"},{"start":12531.437,"end":12559.066,"text":"那這個其實都會也會影響到政府的稅收啦那同時呢過度的生態旅遊可能也沒有考慮到環境負載量的一個問題那反而讓我們喪失生態的一個資源所以我請教一下部長就是說在我們現在沒有一個專責法制的架構之下那我們要如何確保我們的生態旅遊不會變成一般的觀光包裝而已然後甚至因此而造成我們的環境生態受到影響不曉得說部長你的想法是什麼"},{"start":12559.446,"end":12581.642,"text":"是 報告委員您剛剛所說的問題其實觀光署也有發現到這樣的狀況那這段時間其實蠻多人在反映這樣的議題那這個部分我覺得觀光署可以做出一個討論或者是引導的方向看怎麼讓大家比較有方向可以去依循那不過像委員剛剛有提到一個很重要的現在管轄的單位可能分散在各個部會"},{"start":12582.603,"end":12600.763,"text":"那我請觀光署這邊可以來統合討論一下不一定全部的管理權限都能夠拉在觀光署這邊但是統合討論一下我覺得這是應該要開啟的動作因為我們沒有開啟這樣子的動作對於很多想要參與這方面的觀光遊程的人來說會是非常困擾的會是非常困擾"},{"start":12602.945,"end":12621.185,"text":"而且我們也沒有整體去思考說我們的大自然的承載量可以承載到什麼程度沒有一個總體的規劃或許觀光署來開啟這樣的討論甚至在我們的政觀之裡面是不是可以來做這樣子的題目的討論這樣可以跨部會來做一個討論跟決定我覺得會是比較好的方向"},{"start":12621.445,"end":12644.367,"text":"好 因為我想就是說今天那邊地下經濟對旅客也沒有保障那今天沒有做好環境層載量評估對於生態永續發展也有不好的一個影響啦所以我想就是剛剛部長我非常感謝就是你願意開始來這樣子的討論因為我想我也提供一個案例來作為參考就是說其實澳洲呢它也有相關的從聯邦層級到地方州政府"},{"start":12645.107,"end":12670.863,"text":"都有一個相對的一個法規跟管理機制的認證那我覺得這也是可以提供我們的專通部啦觀光所這邊是不是可以來去更進一步的提出具體的生態旅遊政策目標然後搭配我們的流程簡化還有受保護區的評估指引以及原住民合作的一個機制讓我們的生態旅遊有門檻有誘因也有清楚的管理邏輯那"},{"start":12673.157,"end":12689.146,"text":"再來就是說我們在哥斯大利加還特別加入了一個環境影響性評估所以我想剛剛部長其實也有承諾了那我想我們大概多久的時候可以有一個研議或是評估是不是要往這個方向繼續來前進我們三個月的時間來評估這件事好不好"},{"start":12690.687,"end":12714.38,"text":"包含我們這個政官制的部分看有沒有辦法來做這樣子的提案我們上個月左右來評估那我也希望可以一併討論一件事情他有沒有需要進入修法這是不是也可以一併來評估好不好 謝謝修法陳明文也一併討論 謝謝委員好 謝謝張雅玲委員發言完畢現在請游皓委員游皓委員游皓委員不在現在請陳冠廷委員發言"},{"start":12721.57,"end":12722.074,"text":"好我們請部長請陳部長"},{"start":12729.707,"end":12754.781,"text":"委員好部長好部長上一次我們諮詢的時候主要是針對這個鐵路高架化的部分那現在嘉義民雄還有這個雲林的斗六他們都在推動鐵路高架化那當然這對城市安全交通流暢都有很有的幫助不過在大嶺這一段這一段他可能會在整體的路線完工後他會出現下來又上去的這個狀況"},{"start":12755.982,"end":12776.854,"text":"那這個部分我們認為說對他的長期的整體規劃還有城鎮的發展那或許工程的一致性他可能會不利所以我在去年的11月13日在這邊跟部長有討論過大連的高階化的規劃那我們今天還是再次的這個正式的再請部長來支持"},{"start":12778.015,"end":12794.376,"text":"那部長朵六市區的鐵路立體化的可行性研究在劉建國委員的推動之下還有協同還有協調交通部在14年12月24號已經將修正後的報告交下到鐵道局那現在我想"},{"start":12795.417,"end":12812.015,"text":"確認一下鐵道局現在依審查的要點正在做審查的作業當中應該沒有錯現在還在繼續的在推動當中上一次我們提到的時候部長有提到說啟動立體化跟高價化的評估需要由我們縣府這邊來提出嗎是沒錯"},{"start":12813.777,"end":12842.495,"text":"那縣府這邊的提出當然是他必須要有做這件事情之後我們才有後續的規劃但我理解但是我在想說初步規劃的可行性研究是不是可以先從這個邀請部長先來大臨後跟我們的技術官僚一起來走一走跟縣府先辦理這個座談會跟縣弟會談也就是說我們先把這個中央的輔助規則地方的提案要件那如果要做的這些期程節點一次先來講"},{"start":12843.416,"end":12865.472,"text":"那我們當然是還是要縣府來去做這些提案不過如果由部長跟交通部的這些官員我們先就這個可行性大概先有一個事先的磋商事先的討論限定的這個場刊之後我們一次把這個節點這樣講清楚那後續縣府他們推出來的這個方案我相信也會更專業而且更符合行政效率不知道部長怎麼看"},{"start":12866.432,"end":12894.936,"text":"報告委員這個部分確實是要由地方政府來提出那如果需要跟地方政府來做溝通或者是事先的討論我們都很願意跟地方政府來做事先的討論那嘉義縣政府如果有這樣的需求我們就來跟他們討論好那我這邊就會特別請這個不管是證供所也好縣府也好那還有這個交通部我們就來這個戳上一個時間點我們先來看一下這個可行性是怎麼樣然後我們再來去推動這個部分"},{"start":12895.396,"end":12914.97,"text":"那部長這個我是希望未來交通部把大連它視為一個補齊路廊一致性的這個安全的重要節點它不要碎片化的去處理那因為現在從斗六或者是民雄大連這些如果我們用整體的這個用國家的視角用中央的高度去看的話"},{"start":12915.791,"end":12937.342,"text":"那我們能夠把它的完整性做得更好因為如果只是由因為其實現在各縣市交通應該是一體化來去考量的那不是說我這個雲林縣的斗六我這邊要把它處理好所以我就處理這個就是治標嘛這個也是治標但是如果我們要整體來考量的話其實交通部在事先的參與"},{"start":12938.382,"end":12964.287,"text":"那就可以甚至是可以省下很多行政作業的這個流程所以這個部分我們也是非常感謝部長的支持那我們會再另外再邀約所有的小樂觀單位一起來參與好謝謝部長好謝謝委員好謝謝陳冠廷委員發言完畢現在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在"},{"start":12966.377,"end":12986.44,"text":"登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢 作以下決定報告及詢討完畢委員劉雪婷所提書面之提案說明委員陳樹岳 游浩 林建啟 魯明哲 劉雪婷 何欣淳所提書面諮詢列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":12987.56,"end":13015.548,"text":"委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆針對本日會議討論事項做以下決議討論事項個案均另定期繼續審查本會本會期最後一次會議意思錄授權主席核定後確定"},{"start":13016.516,"end":13032.673,"text":"本次會議結束散會在這邊也謝謝我們交通委員會的議事工作人員謝謝媒體朋友謝謝交通部所屬官員那今天是交通委員會最後一天的開會謝謝大家祝大家新年快樂"},{"start":13050.435,"end":13055.384,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":13070.255,"end":13083.518,"text":"副主席"},{"start":13092.079,"end":13093,"text":"謝謝 謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"167330","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167330","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88c30e74f18ff838a152fd623850d83d5bef4d1ce49928203b332e030545e112f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:16:58 - 11:44:31","影片長度":"00:27:33","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 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我們是不是請石部長 請石部長另外一人早 部長這個中榮的這個業務到底有沒有帶到"},{"start":19.477,"end":45.572,"text":"到底有沒有抄刀你說要一個禮拜給大家報告早超過一個禮拜了這個以他送來的這個報告他送來的報告我們都知道是說沒有但他送來報告說沒有之後人家影像就曝光了所有的媒體都看過了人民也看過了就是有你現在還在講他送來的報告你知道你們醫師法"},{"start":47.313,"end":66.244,"text":"怎麼規範密醫行為6個月以上5年以下嘛對不對可是醫生有什麼責任你們的醫師法如果醫師法28條之4聘僱容留密醫去執行這個手術你們28條之4對醫師怎麼處罰有刑責嗎 你先回答我有沒有刑責"},{"start":76.583,"end":87.105,"text":"龍柳啊龍柳跟聘顧密醫來幫我做手術這個醫師有沒有刑責龍柳的部分沒有啦聘顧有沒有聘顧龍柳龍柳跟聘顧通通都沒有你們的醫師去找一個密醫來幫他帶刀只有罰10萬到50萬你覺得這個機制這樣子"},{"start":105.339,"end":119.745,"text":"公平嗎那個密醫是有刑責但是聘僱密醫的人的醫師沒有刑責罰十萬元可以了事這樣醫生敢去請密醫來操刀嗎 大家也敢"},{"start":124.087,"end":126.069,"text":"你覺得這種法律的設計有公平嗎沒有公平 太檢討沒有公平嘛 第一 你知道 我跟你說過嘛在開刀房裡面 醫師 護理師 麻醉科醫師 大家都參與其中"},{"start":144.364,"end":170.112,"text":"病人可以告他們加重詐欺是不能緩刑的非關不可的喔但是檢舉的人自己就有刑責不能緩刑的不能一顆罰金的加重詐欺喔我說過嘛但是我要問你崔少哲保護法能不能保護讓這個崔少哲揭弊的人可以免除刑責可不可以"},{"start":173.117,"end":179.96,"text":"你不知道好我先問你吹哨者保護的揭弊的對象限於什麼資格他揭弊的範圍"},{"start":183.942,"end":208.995,"text":"不涉及私人企業啦你懂嗎所以只有公部門的醫院公立醫院的接避者可以讓這個吹哨者保護法去協助給他網住接住現在我問你公立醫院占整體醫院幾個百分比我們的大概是20個百分比"},{"start":210.208,"end":224.506,"text":"所以有八成 八成的醫院而且私立醫院才是這種讓業務操刀的可能問題更多私立醫院的接避者是得不到接避者保護的"},{"start":226.178,"end":237.567,"text":"所以他們怎麼接避 你說三個手段嘛你的三個手段就是組一個調查小組第二個訂一個手術室指引第三個請醫策會積極輔導這個東西有辦法"},{"start":243.522,"end":268.215,"text":"解決這個問題嗎 有限 有限啦 沒錯我現在要跟你說 我再跟你講一次 接避者保護的這一個機制對私立醫院的接避者來講很重要 你說要怎麼處理這個事情沒有比接避出來接避免除刑責的這一個保護機制更重要的 好"},{"start":271.236,"end":282.761,"text":"醫師罰28條之4醫師去聘僱一個密醫來操刀沒有刑者只有罰10萬這個事情你應該去討論一下那我現在一併要跟你討論的是"},{"start":285.253,"end":289.775,"text":"我們希望你藉著這次事件一併修正改進我下面要講的這一個議題這個議題就是說啊你們劉月餅市長在這,我先抱怨一下他說你們就根據中榮的報告,業態沒有操刀然後劉市長你說啊醫學院畢業大家都資優生畢業的醫生給他們寄生借就很可惜,不可能"},{"start":314.89,"end":327.883,"text":"不可能會這樣做啦那個劉市長天兵啊厲害啦但我現在不是要講這個啦現在教學醫院當中除了主治醫師通常還會有"},{"start":329.472,"end":350.208,"text":"醫院的門診除了主治醫師有時候就是住院醫師、實習醫生或是PGY因為是教學醫院但他們這些教學醫院的門診在主治醫師的指導下他會進行病史詢問病理學的檢查那病人可以自由選擇是不是要接受教學服務"},{"start":351.69,"end":363.484,"text":"他可以自由選擇要不要有其他醫師在場他可以告訴這個主治醫師嘛他有執行權因為他沒有被麻醉嘛他意識清楚嘛所以他可以選擇權他說我"},{"start":367.168,"end":388.74,"text":"我這個不想要但是也有很多醫師大牌的醫師在門診的時候掛號的時候就已經揭露了本診為教學門診診療時會有住院醫師實習醫師跟診學習如果你不方便我就是一定要教你不方便你不要來看這一診這也是一個方法"},{"start":390.001,"end":416.876,"text":"但是呢我要講的這狀況很容易監督啊因為病人意識清楚啊有資訊告知啊有執行權啊病人也有選擇權啊隨便你要不要我就是要教學也在教學當中我們的醫療技術也在進步也是靠這個也是要純誠啊當然是要靠這樣子進步但是我要問你是教學手術呢"},{"start":417.896,"end":422.028,"text":"教學手術保證到自己的知情權和選擇權"},{"start":425.782,"end":451.584,"text":"教學手術就是手術當中有有實習醫師或者是學生在旁邊對啊他是教學型的手術操作我想這個手術過程當中也是一個在醫學生學習或者是這個住院醫師也好實習醫師也好對啦我現在講的是有沒有知情權有沒有讓這個因為被麻醉躺在那裡啊誰進來手術事實上不知道啦那我的意思是說"},{"start":452.745,"end":459.41,"text":"你們現在的這個設計步驟程序有沒有讓被手術的人知情有沒有可做選擇的選擇權就像門診你都這麼縝密了連門診大家都這麼做了那操刀的風險是更大的那操刀的程序裡面教學型的手術操作這個受術者有沒有這一些規範"},{"start":484.529,"end":507.181,"text":"這個兩個層面第一個就是說過去我們有訂了這個教學的指引裡面把這些倫理規範要求進去那麼住院的部分跟這個手術的部分我們來檢討一下剛剛有沒有需要去擴充之前的那個門診我們現在不是在講倫理規範我們現在講的就是制式規定世代已經走到現在來了"},{"start":510.583,"end":533.841,"text":"為什麼要講呢 教學手術除了 大家知道沒有告知這個病人 因為手術要填寫一個同意書嘛你們自恃的手術同意書的內容就是疾病名稱 建議手術名稱 建議手術的原因醫師的聲明 手術負責醫師的姓名專科別簽名 病人聲明 立同意書人姓名病人的關係人簽名"},{"start":536.384,"end":553.619,"text":"門診是意識清醒的 但手術的受術者是意識不清醒的所以其實是只有填寫這一個手術同意書是不夠的2021年張基的院長陳木寬大家都知道瘋者的風風雨雨"},{"start":555.907,"end":583.76,"text":"則募官遭多名離職的醫護人員指控偽造開刀房的記錄 詐領保險費 涉及不法還批報他一天就排17刀 而人在台北開會髒話還有掛名的手術在進行不僅如此 還有離職的醫師爆料說一天三四十刀都是常態"},{"start":585.782,"end":604.902,"text":"醫生遭到霸凌離職了就這樣子檢舉然後醫院說前置後續作業可由醫療團隊執行主導醫師可以到另外一間手術進行手術關鍵部分然後所以那個張基就出了一個聲明"},{"start":605.643,"end":632.59,"text":"他說手術參與的醫師有團隊總醫師住院醫師主刀醫師組織醫師以上繁雜卻必要的程序不可能由主刀醫師一人完成由醫療團隊們進行關鍵步驟之外的前置與後續在此同時主刀醫師便可以到另外一間手術為另外一個病人進行手術關鍵的部分好他講的原則我們都同意但真正的是這一個"},{"start":633.65,"end":660.693,"text":"院長當天到底是不是這樣子 那可就不一定啦他們的聲明講的我們都同意但真正操作的是不是如聲明所講的 不知道餒 像一天三四十刀像生產線一樣麻醉之前露個臉 下面之後是誰開的 不知道欸所以我常常說這是一個模糊的地帶"},{"start":663.084,"end":678.576,"text":"那有沒有需要再更精緻的規範啊手術當中到底有幾個醫師動刀病人在上手術台以前有沒有基本的知情權啊部長手術教學的風險會不會高手術的風險總是高於門診的風險 教學嘛"},{"start":690.246,"end":702.819,"text":"那病人的安全保障應該比看門診的時候還更嚴謹啊他的知情權也應該要更獲得保障啊那他要不要有選擇權也應該要有啊所以在這種狀況你覺得呢"},{"start":708.454,"end":731.213,"text":"跟委員說明以現在來講我們剛剛提到的三個層次第一個過去已經在門診需要有告知知情的部分我們來研議把它納入那特別是學生的部分大概都OK因為意識清醒也沒有辦法變住院跟手術的部分我們來研修這是第一個第二個"},{"start":732.014,"end":751.459,"text":"有所謂的接刀或跨刀的情形是確實會有有這個需要那但是我們也把它訂出一個原則出來那第三個呢那實務上呢可以透過我們健保的申報可以了解它的合理性我們去勾結一下那些高量當初這個案件來市長你當市長了嗎當初張基這個案件"},{"start":755.144,"end":760.866,"text":"狀況怎麼樣好你提供給我一個調查報告沒關係好來我現在再問一下就曾經有一個離譜的案件安裝心臟支架的手術組織醫師是為了訓練住院醫師這個我覺得是一定要這樣子嘛教學嘛教學相長然後大家都一定要這樣子來學習嘛"},{"start":777.651,"end":793.825,"text":"但是他在訓練的過程裡面在沒有告知病人的狀況裡面放手讓這個住院醫師去指導結果發生安裝的疏失了最後主治醫師推卸責任推卸給住院醫師"},{"start":795.827,"end":814.018,"text":"結果家屬自始至終的蒙在鼓裡根本不知道這台攸關性命的手術除了主治醫師之外還有住院醫師也參與執刀所以這大家覺得說你隱瞞病人術後推諉因為發生事情了才講說這不是我來住院"},{"start":815.149,"end":843.394,"text":"在這種狀況這責任的確是責任在你們現行的規範裡面責任屬誰你告訴我主治醫師啦這個醫病關係的建立是在主治醫師啦我說法律責任法律責任也是啊因為在這裡面是你授權嘛你授權那你在這裡面破壞了病患對你主治醫師的信任以外但病患都不知道操刀的是住院但是我們如果沒有這一個過程你怎麼訓練"},{"start":844.966,"end":868.061,"text":"住院醫師呢 那這個責任要怎麼決定因為沒事情就沒事情嘛 有事情要怎麼辦我出門問你 你說你瘦了這樣沒人要做主 沒人要做教學生 沒人要做主治醫師要怎麼辦責任很清楚 因為這個醫病關係的建立是在主治醫師所以這個責任是很清楚 但是這一些情形為了"},{"start":869.002,"end":884.519,"text":"我們不是也通過了一個醫療事故預防及正義處理法其實就是要解決像這一類的事情他並不是故意所為但是就有這樣的發生你完全把責任歸咎於他但我的意思是說責任上是這樣沒有錯那現在病人"},{"start":888.563,"end":907.16,"text":"他是第一線的第一線直接就如果有疏失當然不是故意你免刑者沒關係但是他是第一線就是受害的那他這種病人難道不應該有知情權在事前要知情 要同意吧"},{"start":908.052,"end":936.263,"text":"所以知情很重要知情而且要取得他同意吧如果沒有的話會不會很糟糕這個在倫理上也是需要啦知情一定需要啦那事後的告知也是需要我們在那個醫療事故預防性正義處理就有談到這個事後發生的事情也要告知嘛我現在跟你說那要不要事前同意事前也要啊對不對現在有這種知情和同意權嗎現在"},{"start":938.457,"end":951.402,"text":"我們來規範你們現在沒有啦所以我們現在手術同意書的規範不足是否為教學手術參與動刀的醫師有誰我們都要透明嘛"},{"start":955.723,"end":975.643,"text":"那是否涉及新進的技術或設備要不要告知我應該是講的是說在這個手術同意書上要不要擴充到包含手術的團隊那麼中間有沒有涉及到你如果是教學型的有住院醫師有誰要來可能會涉及到"},{"start":976.664,"end":994.248,"text":"Involve到裡面要教學啊那要不要告知那涉及到新進的技術或設備要不要告知新進的技術或設備要不要告知這個告知要到什麼程度我們來研議的對 所以我現在在講就是說"},{"start":1000.993,"end":1020.492,"text":"整個中榮的案件的核心不是只有業帶是不是進入手術室其實更核心是我們國家對於新進的醫療技術跟設備是否已經有清楚的規範到操作的資格和訓練的門檻"},{"start":1023.103,"end":1027.488,"text":"你都一直說 業代比他更容易做啊 醫生不要 業代要來幫忙協助啊但我就從這裡來問你們 這樣子的問題 難道你們都不用去規範新進的技術越來越多 與時俱進"},{"start":1042.805,"end":1067.372,"text":"新進的醫材設備這麼多與時俱進那你不用去規範每一種新的進來食藥署如果核准了一種了那你的訓練門檻要不要規範要不要現在有沒有規範我們在特管辦法就是醫療法的授權辦法有個特管辦法裡面有一些特定的技術是有規範的它就有一些門檻"},{"start":1068.973,"end":1093.229,"text":"像新的像Proton新導管的不是一般的新導管有一些新的那種會刮除的那種的新導管速適風險比較高的高的他有規範在裡面什麼資格那像達文西手術也是一樣他一定要受過幾台的跟刀訓練之後他才能夠獨立操作才能取得執行的資格那每個都已經規範完整了嗎但是沒有辦法"},{"start":1094.251,"end":1098.968,"text":"規範完整了嗎不可能完全啦所以我們隨時就調整就調整這樣"},{"start":1100.587,"end":1129.168,"text":"對 所以有人講說你對於這個病人安全始終是醫療行為的首要考量你曾經這樣講嗎醫生面對新興的醫療技術必須接受完整的訓練醫生在過去的訓練當中可能會碰到新的技術或設備你曾經說例如達文西手術系統在他還是醫師訓練的階段可能沒有接觸過但在未來醫師要操作這類設備當然必須要接受訓練那你也說過"},{"start":1130.129,"end":1148.164,"text":"病人安全才是最重要的醫療人員至少不能傷害病人所以訓練訓練絕對是必要的所以你講了兩種嘛第一種第一種訓練是模擬訓練嘛那像達文西手術系統就有模擬機可以讓醫師在模擬環境當中學習操作"},{"start":1148.965,"end":1156.769,"text":"第二種是實務訓練許多國外的做法是讓受訓醫師由有經驗的醫院具備經驗的醫師帶領一下學習也不是交給業務代表來教導不是"},{"start":1164.913,"end":1193.612,"text":"可是你知道現在很多醫院喔你到醫院去陸陸續續都會看到號稱全國第一套某種儀器設備全國第一套經常那這些醫院在引進新興的醫療設備發布新聞稿說哎呀我們今天終於幾月順利完成裝機再幾月要開始實施手術經常常常上一個月完成裝機下個月就要做"},{"start":1194.454,"end":1194.474,"text":"少數"},{"start":1195.666,"end":1224.585,"text":"那用這個當廣告那作為提升醫療服務造福病人的主要宣傳和訴求但是作為病患和家屬我們希望的新設備不僅是要快我們希望的是操作的人操作的能力操作的專業要完善和安全可是你們的特管辦法裡面沒有辦法更改的速度沒辦法改這麼快"},{"start":1225.926,"end":1246.884,"text":"新的醫材設備發展的速度比你的法律還快啊那怎麼辦 這些高階的儀器設備你們沒有辦法 現行的法規沒有辦法發展的那麼快那你們要求實際操作人員需要具備合格的證明也來不及要求 這樣要怎麼辦"},{"start":1249.234,"end":1273.434,"text":"這個我們來研究一下就是更新不急的問題啦可能要從源頭啦因為這些比較侵入性比較侵犯性的都是從FDA就許可所以我們要從前端開始如果他這個在查驗登記的時候要許可的時候那麼這個就是屬於有高門檻的就應該要直接寫進他的訪單裡面"},{"start":1275.015,"end":1298.851,"text":"就是要求你要受過什麼訓練才能夠操作這台儀器的我們過去在醫財部等位他會這麼清楚就知道風險是什麼嗎所以未來我們要建立這個技術我們來檢討從源頭開始所以你的實際操作人員操作這種儀器要不要定合格操作的合格門檻最低訓練時數標準化的訓練程序達到門檻之後才能夠執行相關手術要把"},{"start":1304.875,"end":1324.883,"text":"所以簡單的講就是說未來我們在審查這一類的比較侵犯性或者是很新的高科技的東西不是只有在審查文件還要去詢問這個專業醫學會的意見能夠操作這個的是不是要有一些人員的限制那現在有這樣子跑嗎還沒有 還沒有現在都沒有嗎對 我們來檢查所以現在實務上就是業務人員在教學"},{"start":1333.43,"end":1353.182,"text":"所以你們是現在交給廠商在教學你剛才講到一個重點我們的醫學會難道是擺著放著而已嗎所以現在你們交給廠商會發生什麼問題有媒體報導指出部分醫生對於設備組裝流程不熟悉實際操作時一旦發生問題緊急聯絡的是"},{"start":1357.164,"end":1370.991,"text":"廠商業務人員到廠所以在這種狀況裡面我想作為主管機關保證你感覺說目前這樣是沒合理的吧也不符合醫療安全要求的常態作業吧現在是這樣喔這樣你要多久的時間要改進"},{"start":1373.672,"end":1389.898,"text":"我們把這個這一套制度我們把它研究要研究多久三個月我們希望這些新進的醫療技術和儀器設備的合作合格的操作標準訂出最低的訓練時數這個可以交給醫學會啊我們業必歸會要幹嘛"},{"start":1394.72,"end":1414.504,"text":"業必歸會讓他們業會裡面可以他們自己對會員有這個自律去管理嘛所以不是交給業代那你知道婦產科內市競技微創醫學會他們規範的婦科機器手臂協助下微創手術醫師資格認證婦產科這個就訂的很詳細喔他說"},{"start":1419.325,"end":1445.491,"text":"必須是台灣婦產科醫學會認證的婦產科專科醫師才能夠執行第二個至少要執行20例的婦科手術含開腹或及腹腔鏡手術其中腹腔鏡手術需要占10例以上並需要有主刀者手術紀錄第三參與本學會舉辦或本學會認可的機械手臂輔助婦科手術相關課程8小時"},{"start":1447.932,"end":1460.118,"text":"第四 機械手臂操作要12個小時 含模擬機和實機操作保長你也稍微聽一下我聽你說婦產科醫學會在規定有有很多啦 包括你必須至少參與一台的動物實驗 擬真組織大體或AI模擬訓練以及至少一台的機械手臂輔助婦科手術觀摩或擔任助手經驗或是"},{"start":1475.265,"end":1481.155,"text":"至少10台機械手臂輔助婦科手術觀摩或擔任住所經驗這兩項則依記錄就可以了然後"},{"start":1485.454,"end":1507.469,"text":"執行醫師新取得認證資格後一年內如果沒有單獨主刀執行機械手臂相關輔助的手術則暫停其資格需要再接受再培訓課程使得恢復資格那如果要擔任指導醫師當然更嚴謹那我的意思是說我看這個啦我覺得婦科"},{"start":1509.551,"end":1536.15,"text":"這個是什麼醫學會叫做婦產科內試競技微創醫學會的規範其實是蠻完整的那從上述的規範可以證明專科醫學會在這個制度當中可以扮演更積極的角色新進的醫療技術和設備的合格操作標準最低的訓練門檻指定醫師的資格這個專業的自律範疇真的不要交給醫院更不能交給廠商"},{"start":1538.271,"end":1563.511,"text":"應該要交給醫學會那你們不可以憑以形式說從中榮事件你訂一個限縮在開刀房秩序業務人員不得帶刀這麼簡單粗糙的指引而是你必須從制度層次全心去檢視新技術導入後的訓練認證和責任架構是否健全"},{"start":1564.452,"end":1578.963,"text":"所以你要去統籌結合各專科醫學會針對不同類型的新進醫療技術建立分級分專科的操作案訓練指引而不是一個概括性的手術開刀房的指引"},{"start":1580.305,"end":1593.68,"text":"所以在這種狀況對病患而言我覺得站在病患的角度立委最重要我們要緊的不是你多快用上最新的設備而已而是能不能再確信執行手術的醫療團隊已經具備充分的專業訓練和經驗"},{"start":1599.566,"end":1614.255,"text":"而不是在默許現在的醫療技術資本競逐的過程當中任由科技和新興的醫材的風險轉嫁給病人自己去承擔不能這樣子啊"},{"start":1615.886,"end":1634.802,"text":"這樣 我跟你說 你給我最後我就只想講你們跟各個醫學會開會 每開完一次會給我們一次報告 給我們委員會報告那你們三個月內 你們到底開了幾次會 達成什麼共識 討論出什麼可以都送我們未還委員會給大家報告一下嗎"},{"start":1635.322,"end":1649.395,"text":"可以 可以 我們把這整個這個制度把它規劃好不要變成開刀房 開刀房的指引而已不會 不會 不會 從源頭啦對 對 對 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝林淑芬委員發言接下來請盧憲義委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167335","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167335","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a881f34372e501b46056bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba2b4aab974ddd87285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:31:58 - 11:41:41","影片長度":"00:09:43","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra 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請交通部陳部長也請鐵道局楊局長請陳部長 請楊局長委員好部長好"},{"start":18.15,"end":43.844,"text":"部長今天首先要和部長還有局長討論鐵路地下化那依鐵道局公開資料看起來桃園鐵路地下化目前的關鍵不在於明年有沒有錢而是已經編列的經費它執行不順那其中CJ13站中壢站它歷經了五次的流標那延宕也超過了一年才決標那這延宕不只影響中壢站本身它也影響南端CJ17站平正端"},{"start":44.324,"end":67.382,"text":"那平正端的部分他完工後是否能夠通車那想請教局長部長那目前在這個排程中是否已經將CJ13站他這個中壢站他列為主要影響整體進度的關鍵標案報告委員13是桃園 17才是中壢那目前的標標的進度我請局長回答"},{"start":68.344,"end":95.481,"text":"跟委員報告其實CJ17是我們中立站那這個CJ17在113年3月就已經決標那現在都在這個積極的進行相關的工程當中那CJ17其實在這個目前為止原來決標金額是156億到目前為止已經執行了15億多所以我想在115年度我們這個工程還是有需要"},{"start":96.481,"end":111.829,"text":"後續的一些經費來做支援有沒有去做評估他之後會有什麼影響嗎因為目前他延宕一年中壢已經延宕一年了沒有錯嗎那他會影響他後續憑證端這個跟憑證端的影響因為憑證是臨時站憑證臨時站的部分我們在今年10月會按照這個目標啟程來通車啟用"},{"start":120.794,"end":147.23,"text":"那地下化的這個路段呢現在爆出去的修正計畫呢是全縣市在122年要能夠完工通車所以沒有任何一個車站可以辣掉也就是說不管哪個車站先做後做其實我們是按照工程的要進來去做安排的那今天主要會有這個問題是因為那過去有多個標案它是流標的流標嘛那也不是因為預算沒有通過的關係吧不是這個關係沒有錯吧"},{"start":149.436,"end":166.746,"text":"對 那因為在前年就絕標了是 因為單價變低而且它風險高所以廠商不願意投標那我們現在來看115年的預算別列和相關工程的標案定價是否已經有反映最新的營建物價指數它有沒有反映在最新的營建物價指數"},{"start":167.649,"end":195.669,"text":"有就是我們現在修正的已經發標的已經發包的這些標都是有按照最新的這個營建行情物價指數去完成發包那後續我們現在還有內力奉明這個三個標案在等待發包那這個部分的話就是要等修正計畫來通過那目前來看的話呢還在我們的掌控期程當中但我們期望今年下半年可以完成內力站的這樣的一個發包"},{"start":196.747,"end":215.154,"text":"是了解那因為中立站是全線最困難的一區嗎那他起步也算晚那因為他經歷中間也經歷5次流標那他有嚴重影響壓縮影響到電機的電機進場的時間那目前憑證斷的他局長他的進度是正常的嗎憑證斷現在進度正常"},{"start":216.877,"end":241.807,"text":"是那另外在113年的時候我們有到桃園進行考察那當時本席有向部長提到向部長提到大溪就是我們地方桃園的捷運綠線希望能夠延伸到大溪那大溪老街道到河東那局長這邊有沒有掌握進度還有狀況我所知桃園市政府應該還沒有把修正後的報告送進來"},{"start":242.754,"end":252.829,"text":"那我這邊了解到是他們去年年底就已經修正宋經理對不起我可能回頭再確認一下如果宋經理我們會按照程序來做這個必要的一些審查"},{"start":253.174,"end":278.38,"text":"是那部長這邊因為當時113年我們有進行地方考察那地方一直很希望大溪不只是到就是河溪因為大溪地形的關係您也知道有分河東跟河溪我們希望這條捷運綠線呢它也可以過橋到河東那技術上面其實還有一些困難所以這邊希望能夠支持才能帶動大溪整體的觀光還有交通的效益"},{"start":278.92,"end":289.598,"text":"是 報告委員現在已經送進來那個鐵道局了嘛那鐵道局會來進行審議那這個部分細節我們再來想辦法來協助我們現在部裡面也在審查當中了"},{"start":289.943,"end":308.762,"text":"OK好那另外接下來要和部長討論就是剛剛我們討論到桃園鐵路地下化那我們來看工程執行方面的監管問題那這個施工期間他一定會產生大量的土方那一直以來就是我們避免亂到土方的問題嘛那國土署他也規定土方車輛都要裝設GPS"},{"start":310.023,"end":331.403,"text":"那目前國土署還有環境部對GPS的規範還在討論中那業界也都知道這套系統它其實是有漏洞的所以這邊也提出要求那交通部作為車輛的主管機關必須解決技術性上面的困難嗎那我們先來看到部長您知道有市面上有一個東西它叫做車中型的GPS感染器嗎"},{"start":332.914,"end":354.186,"text":"車窗型的干擾器車窗型的GPS干擾器那這樣的干擾器它一個幾千塊它插上去之後訊號就會斷了那現在GPS它本身的監控平台是被動的那訊息斷了之後呢它只會顯示異常得到承辦人員發現異常之後土方早就被倒在不該倒的地方那另外還有ABG的問題"},{"start":355.166,"end":371.219,"text":"那有一些不肖的業者他會他會有這個ABG一台是他乖乖跑他的路線那另外一台呢他裝在另外一台車上那這邊想請教部長那未來我們大型的交通公共建設我們是不是可以來研議就是把訊號中斷視同為違規寫到合約裡面"},{"start":376.782,"end":396.299,"text":"報告委員因為這個土方的管理是內政部國土署在管理的所以今天要和部長討論是車輛因為車輛管理是在我們交通部是監理機關嘛車輛本身的安全跟規格那個管理是我們但是實際上這個土方的GPS的這個管控的部分是國土署"},{"start":396.519,"end":413.067,"text":"因為現在有進行討論是希望中央跟地方他們都可以來就是地方也有一套他們GPS的管理系統中央這邊也有中央的部分借接的是內政部國土署他的資料不會進到我們公路局這邊來我們現在討論說這個GPS它裝在現在砂石車他們也要定期做檢驗的這個機器要怎麼來做檢驗我請局長回答"},{"start":423.215,"end":443.263,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個GPS的一個部分的話它基本上就是一個軌跡的定位然後跟訊號的這個花色那這個相關的一個運作燈的部分在這個國土署那邊或是地方政府現在採雙軌他們都有一個這個平台在做控管那另外我也跟委員報告一下"},{"start":443.743,"end":469.756,"text":"像現行毒化物按照環境部的要求都必須要裝GPS所以它整個車機的規格因為他們都必須要裝GPS那我剛才也提到就是有這個GPS的干擾器它不一定是它只要訊號一出現斷點那我們再後續討論誰來做誰來做管理誰來做追查那像計程車它是不是有跳表對那這個跳表是誰管的計程車跳表這個簽網的部分是經濟部標準檢驗局"},{"start":470.99,"end":499.515,"text":"那計程車是不是都要定期也是回到就是監理機關監理機關的檢驗是就車輛安全的部分我知道委員的意思是說我們在檢驗的時候檢驗人員可不可以這個幫忙去看一下這個GPS是不是這個OK不OK的部分我跟委員報告一下因為這個部分的話這個基本上就是說GPS這個系統是不是這個運作正常的部分那個是實際運作狀況的部分"},{"start":499.995,"end":516.307,"text":"那交通部這邊有沒有辦法來做跟我也不知道真的是沒有辦法因為那個系統因為車輛本身安全的部分我們有一套這個法規在這個依照法規來做這個檢驗那像GPS它裝在裡面的話真的"},{"start":517.448,"end":546.023,"text":"第一個部分不是屬於車輛安全的項目那第二個部分的話即使外表看得說有裝一個GPS在那邊但是這個一上路之後是因為就近期的會議國土署跟環境部他們也有邀集交通部嘛對對對對那交通部這邊負責的選擇是什麼在幾次會議裡面大概就是裝GPS的部分的話大概就是回歸他們那個那因為在幾次會議有討論到就是剛剛這個委員簡報裡面有提到說小貨車可不可以開放來這個在土方砂石"},{"start":546.443,"end":565.754,"text":"那這個部分的話我跟委員報告所以就當天交通部這邊完全沒有討論到GPS的檢驗對對對對對因為我這邊順便跟委員報告一下那如果那發生我剛才提到的ABG的狀況你們要這個責任歸屬在誰這個部分這個就是國土署就會依他們的規定來開罰國土署嗎對對對國土署會依規定開罰"},{"start":567.995,"end":582.664,"text":"OK好那剛剛就鐵道局的部分那再請楊局長這邊會後再提供相關的資料就是有關我們桃園鐵路地下化的進度OK然後還有大溪的我們桃園捷運綠線延伸延伸的案OK好謝謝委員謝謝邱委員"}]}},{"id":"167334","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167334","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a888dbcfa6f2d6652f36bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba135377653bbc0bde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"11:20:58 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Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:20:58+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:31:17+08:00","duration":619,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.68471875,"end":3.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.08096875,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.43096875,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.69096875,"end":16.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.775343750000001,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.12534375,"end":18.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.04909375,"end":19.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.65221875,"end":20.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.70284375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.99346875,"end":30.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.11471875,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.62909375,"end":34.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.502218750000004,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.69159375,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.97409375,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.665968750000005,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.969718750000006,"end":41.307218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.16784375,"end":49.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.16346875,"end":44.344718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.44534375,"end":49.221593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.66034375,"end":51.010343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.14534375,"end":52.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.799093750000004,"end":53.102843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.33909375,"end":55.110968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.174093750000004,"end":58.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.07659375,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.181593750000005,"end":64.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.99534375,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.53909375,"end":74.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.69846875,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.38596875,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.16596875,"end":82.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.91659375,"end":84.70971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.99659375,"end":85.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.81909375000001,"end":88.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.40096875,"end":90.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.84784375000001,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.49284375,"end":98.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.32346875,"end":100.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.23846875000001,"end":103.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.26784375000001,"end":104.74034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.28034375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.02284375,"end":106.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.15346875,"end":107.20409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.20409375000001,"end":107.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.22096875000001,"end":107.23784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.23784375000001,"end":107.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.32221875,"end":108.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.41909375,"end":108.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.39784375,"end":110.62971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.80284375000001,"end":112.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.23284375,"end":114.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.92034375,"end":114.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.16909375,"end":117.10971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.24471875,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.57784375000001,"end":119.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.64534375000001,"end":119.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.85596875,"end":121.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.73346875000001,"end":123.45471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.43346875,"end":125.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.98159375,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.06971875000002,"end":131.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.09471875,"end":133.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_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謝主席是不是請交通部陳部長請陳部長什麼叫偏鄉 解釋一下偏鄉 偏鄉偏鄉 交通相對不便那經濟條件相對沒有這麼方便的地方什麼叫離島"},{"start":32.562,"end":58.053,"text":"離島離島就是台灣島以外的島都是離島就是離島是偏鄉跟離島重要嗎都很重要不重要就把它切掉一塊塊把它切掉剩下台灣本島就好了嘛對不對南部如果愛手愛腳的話切掉剩下台北市就好了嘛這個就偏鄉離島嘛對不對我記得我當國大代表的時候啊"},{"start":59.11,"end":88.059,"text":"我去總統府 李登輝總統召見他說你們馬祖人啊 那麼少沒幾戶嘛 你把馬祖那個搬到台灣來我們蓋國民住宅給你就好了花那麼多錢搞機場 搞碼頭幹什麼李登輝總統這樣的想法我們回來以後講給老闆一定罵翻了我跟你講今天就跟川普總統講啊格陵蘭島 我就是要你是不是 你什麼格陵蘭"},{"start":89.434,"end":117.827,"text":"沒幾個人嘛我就叫你格陵蘭啊 可以這樣嗎這兩天我們前政務委員張景生先生啊發表一個謬論他說 桃園的高鐵啊為什麼要地下化為什麼要地下化台鐵地下化還是高鐵高鐵本來在桃園有一段時間地下化那地下化多五六百億吧他不需要"},{"start":121.919,"end":143.945,"text":"那今天馬祖大橋多少年了這個案子是賴院長在任最後一天我們總統啊 我跑到行政院找他為什麼 張景生政委在上面寫了一大堆的字我找古拉斯 那時候還是八月圓嘛"},{"start":146.881,"end":175.488,"text":"賴前總統很理喻我很像在開會吧跑出來他找張哲偉把那個字塗掉他寫了一大堆啊塗掉啊然後這個案把它確立是賴總統賴總統任院長的時候把它批定 核定的喔核定 所以花了一億五千萬來做可行性的評估那今天已經多少年下來了"},{"start":176.872,"end":203.557,"text":"你說是工程技術的問題 技術也沒問題啊什麼時代了還在扯技術啊你台灣不要被人家笑死好不好三公里在講技術喔 笑死人啊然後講經費的問題經費最近世襲也出包了嘛 對不對我們台電六接從一百多億 兩百多億 三百多億一直加 一直加 一直加 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你公文拿給我看"},{"start":323.743,"end":334.949,"text":"跟我們報告一下就是說這些意見我不曉得行政院裡面有多少個張景生啊張景生現在是誰啊他是政務委員嗎他只是一個老百姓而已你知道嗎"},{"start":336.414,"end":360.914,"text":"他在網路上隨便寫一些文章我當一個立法委員就要回答他問題喔很像說我腦殘啊是不是這樣跟張前政委的意見無關怎麼會無關呢因為這個案子就陳武剛剛部長所提的部分是在程序當中因為有報上去然後這個意見必須要再做檢討那我們現在跟縣府也在就是說相關的一個意見的檢討卻張景勝政委已經打臉賴清德總統"},{"start":365.899,"end":391.716,"text":"他認為這不可行 你賴清德總統你這個腦袋有問題他在打臉他了你們政務體系的政務官你們不用替賴總統來講話嗎你們不用解釋一下什麼原因嗎是不是馬祖未來的前途就在這裡嘛你們怎麼可以這樣子部長你回答我 到底編還是不編"},{"start":393.103,"end":407.059,"text":"你編還是不編你講清楚報告員不做就算了你講一句話現在還沒有到編跟不編的點那要拖多久因為現在行政院你拖到國民黨執政還是拖到共產黨執政你要拖到什麼時候"},{"start":408.732,"end":437.443,"text":"我們還是按照程序在走啦程序走八年啊交通部在努力的過程您也都參與在內您應該很清楚交通部一直程序一直往前在走不是沒有你部長失職嘛你部長為什麼這個案子可以讓他拖那麼久你部長有問題啊交通的建設尤其這種大型的建設不是交通部說可以就可以不是 你不敢跟院長反映嗎"},{"start":438.547,"end":467.959,"text":"你不敢跟總統報告嗎這個案子怎麼可以這樣拖那麼久陳允聖在先不是沒有聲音耶我現在每一次的質疑我都要提到這個馬嘴大喬我每一個案子在政府部門都會有很嚴謹的審查那交通部的部分是是是交通部的部分花了一億五千萬耶花了一億五千萬不嚴謹嗎錢都花完了耶白花花的銀子耶你現在不找司機重新再去整理一下是不是要三百八十億嘛你問清楚嘛"},{"start":469.246,"end":496.161,"text":"是不是 前面有個台鐵的台電的六階的工程已經虛編了嘛你到底虛編了多少嘛你把真實的這個預算把它呈現嘛好不好我們不是不考慮啦好不好我來找世西也討論一下啦好 另外一個喔講到公安署那個福山局長你也在我問公安署他說你們錢沒有到位給他們"},{"start":499.468,"end":502.66,"text":"我們觀光署的補助倒退了台灣好行"},{"start":505.359,"end":531.338,"text":"以前給一千萬一年現在給四百萬你要我們公關倒退是不是包委員在新的這個財化法裡面確實公路局能夠補助給地方的財化法不會少你一毛錢我跟福山局長保證其實真的有少我是國民黨的立委我站在這裡這裡是交通委員會我保證不會少你一毛錢我保證沒關係我一個人可以打十幾二十個"},{"start":532.54,"end":539.225,"text":"我不諱言啦 我們國民黨黨團這邊我也沒關係啦我一定會幫你們講這話 但是你全部能少"},{"start":540.305,"end":566.548,"text":"你不能少你這錢不能少好不好少了多少是不是我請局長回答報告委員大概就是我昨天跟你報告就是說以往這個公務局供應這個經費好啦你昨天講過了啦你把錢給公安署公安署把錢給地方就這麼回事啦但問題是他沒錢你說錢他你錢沒給會給嘛給完以後你馬上就要給了好不好可是問題是他沒有錢就不只我們一個縣市挖挖叫欸各縣市都在挖挖叫好不好"},{"start":567.95,"end":586.042,"text":"還有那個橋子那個工程做一半 放那邊 公安署你們錢要給錢啊 橋子頭端就大邱橋那有沒有 頭端啊頭端的預算啊"},{"start":595.506,"end":617.085,"text":"這個應該是跟縣政府還在討論 兩邊還在討論部長 馬祖大橋的預算我今年要看到你們上預算還有福山局長你那邊 你要通知我開會再忙我都會去你不通知我開會就會生氣喔我要注意交通部你們在幹什麼 好不好 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Kacaw等17人分別擬具「發展觀光條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員牛煦庭等16人擬具「發展觀光條例第二條、第四十二條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案及(九)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「發展觀光條例增訂第六十六條之一條文草案」案。\n二、邀請交通部部長就「115年度交通部及所屬單位預算未審竣對桃園鐵路地下化、花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化、嘉義市區鐵路高架化、嘉義縣市鐵路高架化延伸、臺南市區鐵路地下化、觀光雙輪驅動方案等計畫及各單位業務各項交通建設推動之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一第(一)案及第(六)案至第(九)案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:10:37+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:20:46+08:00","duration":609,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-4-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.85784375,"end":8.805968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.844093750000001,"end":7.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.20596875,"end":39.602843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.923468750000005,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.822843750000004,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.93159375,"end":71.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.37409375,"end":95.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.35784375,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.75846875,"end":109.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.07284375,"end":111.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.30034375000001,"end":123.43784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.84284375000001,"end":137.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.91659375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.03221875,"end":181.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.92659375000002,"end":217.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.08971875,"end":226.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.10096875000002,"end":232.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.57284375,"end":279.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.96909375,"end":234.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.35909375000003,"end":249.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.48096875000005,"end":281.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.71284375,"end":280.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.09221875000003,"end":321.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.00159375000004,"end":330.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.96659375,"end":350.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.06471875,"end":359.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.97471875,"end":360.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.93659375000004,"end":375.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.97221875,"end":380.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.51159375000003,"end":387.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.03784375000004,"end":390.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.55221875,"end":393.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.68659375000004,"end":399.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.83346875,"end":403.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.36034375,"end":409.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.26221875000005,"end":432.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.62159375000005,"end":443.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.78846875000005,"end":476.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.60221875,"end":475.90596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.66534375000003,"end":567.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.70471875000004,"end":494.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.97471875,"end":495.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.69346875,"end":512.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.96346875,"end":512.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.3684687500001,"end":571.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.7053437500001,"end":597.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.21596875,"end":600.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.70909375,"end":601.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.7765937500001,"end":601.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.8103437500001,"end":602.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.02971875,"end":605.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.7084687500001,"end":605.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.77596875,"end":605.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.8603437500001,"end":606.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.32846875,"end":607.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":607.37909375,"end":609.47159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.882,"end":7.518,"text":"好謝謝趙偉那我們一樣請交通部陳部長請陳部長然後我們一樣請這個觀光署陳玉秀署長請陳署長"},{"start":14.269,"end":38.994,"text":"委員好 部長好 署長好我想今天開始還是要跟大家討論一下我們這個觀光的問題當然這兩天有新聞披露說我們老牌的旅行社很多旅行社遭到勒令停業那觀光署公布了有46家名單那這一方面反映出可能真的國內的觀光產業相對的衝擊比較大但是這個今天不是要跟大家討論產業問題那既然發生就發生但是我們要討論說民眾的消費者權益的問題"},{"start":40.214,"end":64.615,"text":"這觀光署公布的46家名單那新聞上跟政府都說提醒消費者不要被騙但是我想要問一件事情是說我們這是我們政府的責任不然交通部觀光署裡面我們去公布因為每年海暑假之前都去公布這種旅行社的查核結果那公布完披露了資訊之後那還要做什麼事情我們有什麼責任嗎還是你們的責任是公布完就沒事了"},{"start":69.039,"end":95.462,"text":"是不是請旅行業組的組長可以啊是 跟委員報告我們其實這個是法定要公佈的事由所以我們會依照法規來公佈那公佈之後其實有一些狀況是譬如說他今天是因為財務狀況被我們停業的話我們就會請他提這個財務改善計畫那必須要確認他財務有改善之後我們才會復業如果他一直沒有改善就是停業那其實這個部分的作為也是為了要保障消費者的措施好 謝謝組長"},{"start":96.883,"end":119.354,"text":"我跟部長跟署長 我想要確認一件事情這是我每次看到這個新聞的 我的疑問想先利用這個資訊來了解一下就是其實我現在問的問題是說 那我作為消費者我是每次出遊之前 我有義務跟責任我自己要去上觀光署網站查詢說哪些被停業了嗎那還是說觀光署這邊有沒有去橫向聯繫 包含說經濟部也好 經管也好"},{"start":120.074,"end":143.935,"text":"就這些被勒令停業被公告停業的廠商為什麼還會有消費者被騙是因為他還能收費嗎他還能繼續延攬生意嗎那其他在其他的平台上面他的網站上面或他的金流他的銀行帳戶還可以繼續收款嗎這件事情有人在處理嗎還是說今天他雖然被勒令停業已經一次是16家那我看那個清單上非常多家有的有名有的不有名"},{"start":144.485,"end":152.999,"text":"那今天他在他一樣照樣在假設他在報紙上或在網站上刊登這個招攬CNN的廣告他可能要賺最後一筆要跑路了不管他怎麼想法"},{"start":154.073,"end":181.123,"text":"他看這張廣告然後有相關的這個帳戶也都出來然後能夠去繳錢然後也付費了但結果發現女士已經被勒令停業了這是我可能事後才知道但是我問說事前或是你們在勒令停業的那一刻開始有沒有去做橫向聯繫讓相關部會包含是經管會經濟部也好去包含經濟部要停他的這個營業執照嘛那他的經管會他的銀行帳戶要被凍結或是不能再收這個相關款項嘛等等的這部分有沒有人在處理還是就公告就沒事了"},{"start":182.577,"end":202.051,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們其實一般會呼籲消費者就是你要找旅行社之前你要先到我們的那個官網上去查詢我們是會請他查詢合法旅行社所以這停業的名單不會在我們合法的旅行社裡面那剛剛委員有詢問到這個橫向聯繫部分那我們的旅行社其實現在如果被停業的話他就是不能再經營旅行業務"},{"start":202.952,"end":217.375,"text":"之前到現在我們都也沒有看到旅行社就是說他被停業之後他還有繼續去收款這些情形 沒有那我們會發現的話他通常有財務狀況的話我們會事先來來做相關的處理那停業之後他就不會再營業也沒有這樣子的案例"},{"start":218.14,"end":232.17,"text":"我先確認一下他是自己沒有做這件事他沒有做這件事還是他不能做這件事但依法他不能做啦但是我的問題還很明確嘛就是說這家旅行社他的收款的這個他的公司帳戶或是負責人帳戶等等的有沒有被中我講委員的問題蠻明確啦"},{"start":234.231,"end":254.944,"text":"就是說希望我們除了官方署這邊勒令停業之後除了我們自己勒令停業應該橫向聯繫上也要通知到經濟部那邊甚至是經管會那邊讓他們清楚說後續的例如說金流的狀況就必須要被管控或者是說他的公司登記等等之類的這個部分就要有所處置"},{"start":256.485,"end":281.47,"text":"那這個部分其實是可以做的我們是不是請觀光署也朝這個方向就是我們勒令停業之後雖然說我們現在看起來勒令停業之後沒有發生後續委員所擔心的狀況但如果可以做得更仔細那當然是更好我們來討論一下看怎麼樣讓其他的橫向聯繫可以做得更完善那這個部分討論之後我們再跟委員來做說明好 謝謝部長我想真的就是要"},{"start":283.117,"end":298.48,"text":"你們積極一點去把這個當然目前我照你們所說假設真的還沒有發生那未來可能會有人想到就是說就是經濟不好或怎麼樣也是因為一次46家我想這數字也相對比較震撼那可能不要說真的這個產業有些影響我們擔心的就是說像"},{"start":299.201,"end":321.541,"text":"就像诈骗问题是一样的依法都不能做过去也没想到会有人这样被诈骗但是就是会有人想到这种途径所以我们当然希望至少在这个相关的这个金流上面能够把它阻绝然后没办法去收费当然就不会有后续的问题这是我觉得感谢部长的回应那接下来我们讨论一个旧议题之前上次我们也那个观光署署长可以请回"},{"start":323.072,"end":328.824,"text":"之前我也諮詢過就是推動自行車旅遊這國人說法當然部分那當然後續交通部門有回我一個這個說明"},{"start":331.001,"end":360.164,"text":"你們說回去會討論檢討拿回一個說明那說明後來的結果其實跟之前是一樣的就是說還是一樣還是維持原規定就是說還是一樣車架的高度有限制然後建議可以往後面加裝這個車載的這個車可以裝在車後不要超過50公分這些都是本來就這樣子那上次提出來討論就是說有沒有可能去放寬相關的規定為什麼會做規定因為假設今天要推動綠色旅遊要推動自行車旅遊我們講一下國人目前以"},{"start":361.025,"end":374.481,"text":"先以你們上一次辦環法車賽的大會車的高度來講它那個休旅車的高度本身就已經很高了然後再加上自行車它一定超過法定限制這是第一件事情第二件事情是我按照國內"},{"start":376.221,"end":393.501,"text":"現在比較暢銷的幾個熱門的這個休旅車的款式車款平均高度大概就落到170到180左右公分它的高度大概是這樣子那如果再加上車價那加上這個單車的車高單車車高當然很多種車高那我們查了一下比較"},{"start":394.741,"end":408.566,"text":"通用的我們用UBIKE來舉例UBIKE的高度是105.5公分所以如果你的車身本身已經180了再加上車架再加上UBIKE以UBIKE為標準的話105公分你的高度一定就會超過285公分"},{"start":410.347,"end":431.777,"text":"那基本上你只要開車想要把這腳踏車運具再去任何一個地方去騎乘的話不管是參加比賽或是觀光的用途它的高度會超過285公分它就有機會或一定就會收到罰單我想包含每年我們現在在日月台每年既定雖然去年跟今年都有辦去年前年都有辦比賽今年也會辦比賽"},{"start":433.017,"end":460.474,"text":"這個大會的這些車 這個大會的收容車或者是這些選手的這些車子相關的高度如果這個東西沒有放寬的話或是沒有去做特別處理的話它是不是繼續會有罰單的問題高委員其實大部分的車型都不會有這個問題啦福斯有一款車子是會有這個問題那很多的車子其實就像我們的建議放在車後的也相當多所以基本上會影響到的車型跟真正會影響到的民眾並不多 並不多"},{"start":462.055,"end":476.171,"text":"公路局這邊也有針對說實際上在檢視的過程當中該怎麼樣讓他在安全的條件之下能夠符合他們也有一些做法包含在檢驗的過程當中也有一些做法是不是請局長來回答"},{"start":477.332,"end":500.357,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下上次大概委員很關鍵這樣子的課題那回去我大概也請同仁就是說去把這個問題做一個了解那我先跟委員報告就是說這一個小型車上面放這個自行車的一個部分的話大概有分這一個兩種一種是這個家庭用的那另外一種就是剛剛委員講的參加競賽有點類似保姆車這樣子的部分"},{"start":500.837,"end":520.836,"text":"那一般如果是我們駕用的部分大概一般的休旅車高度大概這個OK那如果說是屬於大型競賽他們那個保姆車大概都用福斯的車型那福斯這個相對這一個就是這一個比較高就會有這樣子的一個情況那我所了解目前實務的狀況那有些這個保姆車要去克服這樣的情況就是拆輪胎然後降低這個高度"},{"start":521.777,"end":544.514,"text":"目前我大概那另外一個部分有些是這個把它放在這一個保母車裡面那另外一種是後面有用輕型半舟車的一個方式去做但是我現在就是說請這個局裡面同仁跟車安中心去比對先就是說這些相關車型的一個部分因為如果說要在這一個放寬等等部分的話就必須要考慮到因為一上去的話"},{"start":545.354,"end":566.907,"text":"有這些保護車有很多是這個要行駛高速公路做運送的部分那個風阻的部分還有安全的部分就必須要做考量那這個部分局裡面現在有在通盤做一個這個檢視那我跟委員報告如果說在安全的條件之下這個高度可以做一個調整的話我們會盡可能朝這個方向來做調整但是還是要以這個安全為前提"},{"start":567.421,"end":597.061,"text":"好當然安全很重要這沒有問題那當然說這個高度限制這個定下的規定因為這個討論我說真的這大概也十幾年討論了我在 survey 相關資料上次最早相關的新聞可能出現在2013年之內就十幾年前了就開始討論這件事情那已經過十幾年後我想現在的車子的它的技術它的高度跟過去相比應該相對比較進步一點它的車架的能耐和相關的這個設備應該也有進步很多所以我覺得這個要盡快的還是要去做新的檢討不要一直"},{"start":598.282,"end":605.033,"text":"沒守成規啦 我講真的就是這樣好不好 可以嗎好 謝謝委員在安全的前提之下我們來做討論好 謝謝好 謝謝黃建華"}]}},{"id":"167340","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167340","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88ec22d3e4b18b35d452fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76ba508f01eb9e990b995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:08:00 - 12:17:24","影片長度":"00:09:24","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:08:00+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:17:24+08:00","duration":564,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.06409375,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.176593750000002,"end":16.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.63596875,"end":19.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.96034375,"end":22.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.33534375,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.62159375,"end":59.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.806593750000005,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.53096875,"end":67.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.80096875000001,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.45846875000001,"end":74.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.14596875000001,"end":74.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.68596875,"end":93.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.52034375000001,"end":82.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.54096875,"end":84.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.52346875,"end":89.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.68784375,"end":89.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.70034375,"end":90.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.58596875,"end":98.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.35721875,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.57596875,"end":103.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.74471875,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.09034375,"end":106.79909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.52909375,"end":107.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.55846875,"end":108.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.16596875,"end":108.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.19971875,"end":108.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.21659375,"end":109.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.41471875,"end":109.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.46534375,"end":110.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.69721875,"end":123.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.83596875,"end":114.15659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.59534375000001,"end":115.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.11409375000001,"end":116.68784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.07971875000001,"end":122.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.50534375000001,"end":125.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.39534375000001,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.46284375,"end":129.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.69909375,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.71596875,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":131.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.06534375,"end":131.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.45346875,"end":136.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.15346875,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.18721875,"end":134.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.53721875000002,"end":135.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.39784375000002,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.76846875,"end":140.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.85284375,"end":147.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.92034375,"end":141.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.38346875000002,"end":149.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.13846875000002,"end":149.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.29034375,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.34096875,"end":149.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.12846875000002,"end":190.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.02221875,"end":207.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.70721875,"end":211.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.64346875,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.62221875,"end":213.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.36471875,"end":219.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.26659375000003,"end":223.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.81034375000002,"end":225.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.57784375000003,"end":228.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.32034375,"end":229.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.78846875000002,"end":241.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.73659375000003,"end":236.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.32659375000003,"end":250.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.08096875,"end":247.38471875000002},{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主席 在場委員先進列席政務機關所長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生好 我們就有請部長了 部長迫不及待了來 那麼也還要同時請我們看事負稅署好了蔡專門委員還有我們的保險室的張司長"},{"start":23.41,"end":47.358,"text":"周委員好部長好剛剛我在外交國防因為是僑委員會對於台商跟僑民的一些關心跟照顧那我這裡呢也很肯定啊過去在你擔任部長之前您也多次造訪很多都包括東南亞國家印象深刻的那時候在薛瑞元部長的時候我們曾經就衛武部的叫做通訊診察"},{"start":48.798,"end":73.738,"text":"治療辦法我們要擴大適用了對不對對你還記得吧這個越南台商也拜託過也是您的督促下我們把它完成了好那我剛剛在那邊詢問的就是說會不會未來會持續的跟僑委會合作不過只有越南馬來西亞聽說下個月要去菲律賓未來會繼續擴大包括亞利桑那美國鳳凰城都會適用吧我們逐步逐步規劃"},{"start":74.779,"end":92.707,"text":"那當時我要求的是說除了國外之外我們國內的矯正機關有很多的受刑人因為高齡化他們年事偏高慢性病心血感經病多那麼過去如果要借戶送醫又要這種情況很耗費人力未來如果說法務部有"},{"start":93.647,"end":110.353,"text":"拜託有要出經費你們可以協助他把這樣的一個通訊診療方辦法擴大因為本來裡面就有矯正機關嘛那過去比較少用嘛好像只有兩個只有精神科跟皮膚科那如果未來法務部有這個需求你們願意協助嗎"},{"start":111.033,"end":136.175,"text":"我們去年8月就放寬矯正機關 都可以可是目前只有兩個在示範如果有這個需要 因為我們健保還幾副喔這個比台商還好在境內的好來請趕快兩個科別在去年在部長在署長任內最後一個月我們已經所有的科別都可以不只這兩個科別所有的科別都適用"},{"start":137.096,"end":163.695,"text":"但是因為矯正機關裡面內部的設備可能比較不夠而且事實上如果有他原來就是慢性病原來的醫療機構在幫他照顧健康的可以持續的照顧部長支持吧支持那今天我們本的本題是我談國民年金法其實我們很欣慰因為總統跟卓院長都有宣誓宣布要讓台灣好生活台灣好生活當中的國民年金"},{"start":164.515,"end":190.052,"text":"老農津貼調高為一萬之後我們行政院也支持衛護部把我們國民年金調高從四千拉高到基本五千那我們再往下看所以過去國民年金保障不足假如醫院低有這些問題包括幾乎過低調整太慢排污過嚴而且對於高齡者跟生長者的保障不足對不對所以往下來看那我們多次本席也多次"},{"start":191.073,"end":205.086,"text":"呼籲調高國民年金不過因為受到憲法的要求75條以及包括預算法跟財政紀律法我們立法委員立法院不能違增加政府支出這決定因此那時候我就推了一個345億用財務法當中的一個"},{"start":208.749,"end":224.111,"text":"留下來的一筆用途不明的金額來做部長還有印象吧有有有那時候我就主張要調到8000啦因為有345億可以用嘛但是呢如果只有345億也只能做不到一年現在呢我們拿納入體制還是要修法但是這個目標部長未來會不會繼續支持"},{"start":226.761,"end":253.829,"text":"我們幾乎提高機制調整對我們是整個財務的情況我們來提高所以這一次行政院的版本就已經一樣都調升23.5%那包含這個身障的會達到6715很好這都很正面那往下看所以你們現在幾乎提高了你們修正了牌幅這很重要過去在我們非都地區往往他一個人他住的是什麼留下來的老舊房子甚至在農業區可是"},{"start":255.689,"end":263.861,"text":"房屋房地產估計限值被調高之後他就沒有辦法得到了那CPI的指數你們也調了那還可以做得更好嗎我們有沒有還可以繼續做強化的地方 部長"},{"start":269.52,"end":287.615,"text":"我往下看比如說你們第一個金額增加所以我剛剛期待說未來還是有一個8000的目標因為目前縣市的最低生活會14000那如果按照A4跟B4去算其實目前只有5000的這個樓地板還是太低部長會不會覺得你要繼續努力"},{"start":288.856,"end":312.692,"text":"其實我們這個五千的部分是基本對他是屬於國民年金的保險對象他還會覺得他的繳費年資還是會對所以說我提的這個八千九千這個部分部長可不可以來努力好不好有機會啦有機會那這裡面要問一下但是我所知道的目前財政部昨天前上週四出一個消息過上個月啦應該去年啦我們好像"},{"start":314.575,"end":327.615,"text":"稅收比預期的少了好像算一算少了500億因為貨物稅關稅的等等還有一個地顏的支出是不是這樣子這位是貨物稅組是嗎簡單講好不好時間已經過來去年的情況是不是比我們預期的稍微不足"},{"start":328.516,"end":349.829,"text":"有這個情況嗎還是你忘記了是是這樣那是就好了我很怕你說不是但是我們希望在台美對等貿易能夠協定確認之後確保台灣對外的經濟成長能夠繼續成長好像是上升到8%了對不對所以我們希望在未來稅收充裕的情況之下"},{"start":350.782,"end":377.053,"text":"行政院來支持衛護部把這個目標來努力好不好在財政有增加的情況之下這樣可以吧可以可以喔 往下第二個就是這次我們修法的本題36條我們認為在財務法修改之後這全部的860億通通由中央政府來負擔這不對啊你同不同意未來財務法現在修改之後地方也不少地方有錢啊是不是我們的36條您覺得因為你們這次都沒有講到36條你們一直沒講到36條你們只要講到那三個事情"},{"start":380.675,"end":384.289,"text":"但是我們期望呢行政院門之外36條部分你們會不會考慮"},{"start":385.941,"end":412.754,"text":"這一次我們的修法沒有涉及到這個中央跟地方的分攤因為行政院另外有提出一個這個新的才化法的這個修正所以我們是希望按照行政院的才化法的新的版本按照新的版本在那個新的版本之下中央跟地方的分配較為均衡所以這種情況之下或許未來中央跟地方共同分攤國民年金的"},{"start":414.191,"end":428.003,"text":"幾戶的這個部分你們可以看再來討論好那也不勉強往下看好那這次呢這些我們也提到了有沒有幫助這次呢過去欠費無力繳納想要回流的本金加利息的這個部分你們有沒有幫助回流欠費無力"},{"start":432.422,"end":455.471,"text":"來 哪一個要回答我們還是會協助啦就是真的沒有能力的因為像低收入戶我們本來政府就補助了嘛那如果是有這個困難的我們還是有這個分期繳款的這個方式那修正後兩年內補繳這個保費跟利息的時候利息減半徵收 負稅組的看法怎麼樣也是沒有準備到這一題"},{"start":460.165,"end":475.183,"text":"好啦沒關係啦好啦這一題我們讓你回去再惡補一下啦再往下看好來接下來呢在我們的老農津貼國民年金都有所調整的情況之下衛護主管的有六大攝護津貼嘛保險師知道哪六大吧"},{"start":476.103,"end":492.532,"text":"知道了我不用考你都寫出來了那這個未來有沒有考慮要一併做調整我們這個六大津貼裡面有三項是屬於低收入戶另外有三項是屬於邊緣戶就是中低收入戶或者是服役對象這個目前都已經有覆案了會經行政院同意之後我們會盡快宣布"},{"start":501.576,"end":530.347,"text":"我是覺得如果真的對人民福國利民的要趕快講讓人民知道而且呢前提是是在我們國家財政可以負擔的情況之下所以希望財政部密切的跟衛福部合作透過足跡總署在這樣的一個國家資源調度上當我們國家人民的經濟成長我們的打拼有這樣成果的時候不管是透過稅收來表達應該優先來照顧弱勢者部長你同意吧同意我說優先照顧弱勢者就不是要去照顧那些"},{"start":531.627,"end":554.784,"text":"優勢的退休後很有錢的那種好最後的結論了所以三個第一國民年金給付金額增加勢在必行未來希望有這個八千的目標希望行政院來努力好不好那至於中央跟地方的分擔的部分還有鼓勵民眾回流的部分這個三個方向是不是繼續來努力對對對那最後呢六大福利今天一併天了好不好好謝謝部長謝謝市長好謝謝總委員"},{"start":564.012,"end":564.032,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"167339","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167339","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a881d9a1f3afa4f4d3f6bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba39e6445d9208886c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:05:58 - 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我們請部長請陳部長委員好"},{"start":11.175,"end":34.835,"text":"部長好 部長上一次我們諮詢的時候 主要是針對這個鐵路高架化的部分那現在嘉義民雄還有這個雲林的斗六他們都在推動鐵路高架化那當然這對城市安全交通流暢都有很有的幫助不過在大林這一段這一段他可能會在整體的路線完工後他會出現下來又上去的這個狀況"},{"start":36.036,"end":56.789,"text":"那這個部分我們認為說對他的長期的整體規劃還有城鎮的發展或許工程的一致性他可能會不利所以我在去年的11月13日在這邊跟部長有討論過大林的高階化的規劃那我們今天還是再次的這個正式的再請部長來支持"},{"start":58.072,"end":74.427,"text":"那部長朵六市區的鐵路立體化的可行性研究在劉建國委員的推動之下還有協同還有協調交通部在14年12月24號已經將修正後的報告交下到鐵道局那現在我想"},{"start":75.448,"end":91.747,"text":"確認一下這個鐵道局現在以審查的要點正在做審查的作業當中應該沒有錯吧現在還在繼續的在推動當中那上一次我們提到的時候部長有提到說啟動這個立體化跟高價化的評估那需要由我們縣府這邊來提出嗎"},{"start":93.829,"end":122.549,"text":"那縣府這邊的提出當然是他必須要有做這件事情之後我們才有後續的規劃但我理解但是我在想說初步規劃的可行性研究是不是可以先從這個邀請部長先來大臨後跟我們的技術官僚一起來走一走跟縣府先辦理這個座談會跟縣地會刊也就是說我們先把這個中央的輔助規則地方的提案要件那如果要做的這些期程節點一次性來講"},{"start":123.45,"end":145.526,"text":"那我們當然是還是要縣府來去做這些提案不過如果由部長跟交通部的這些官員我們先就這個可行性大概先有一個事先的磋商事先的討論限定的這個場刊之後我們一次把這個節點這樣講清楚那後續縣府他們推出來的這個方案我相信也會更專業而且更符合行政效率不知道部長怎麼看"},{"start":146.486,"end":174.386,"text":"報告委員這個部分確實是要由地方政府來提出那如果需要跟地方政府來做溝通或者是事先的討論我們都很願意跟地方政府來做事先的討論那嘉義縣政府如果有這樣的需求我們就來跟他們討論好那我這邊就會特別請這個不管是證供所也好縣府也好那還有這個交通部我們就來這個戳上一個時間點我們先來看一下這個可行性是怎麼樣然後我們再來去推動這個部分"},{"start":175.427,"end":195.024,"text":"那部長這個我是希望未來交通部把大連它視為一個補齊路廊一致性的這個安全的重要節點它不要碎片化的去處理那因為現在從斗六啦或者是民雄大連這些如果我們用整體的這個用國家的視角用中央的高度去看的話"},{"start":195.845,"end":217.393,"text":"那我們能夠把它的完整性做得更好因為如果只是由因為其實現在各縣市交通應該是一體化來去考量的那不是說我這個雲林縣的斗六我這邊要把它處理好所以我就處理這個就是治標嘛這個也是治標但是如果我們要整體來考量的話其實交通部在事先的參與"},{"start":218.413,"end":231.26,"text":"那就可以 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所以我想就是這個對於全體的最新人來說是我們非常關注的一件事情可是這件事情卻因為我們的國民黨到民眾黨到這個禮拜還不審總預算那甚至這件事情也沒有被提出來討論而造成了全體國人的受益那我想這件事情是非常不OK的一件事情那接下來我就要針對這一次的審查觀光發展條例上面來跟部長做更多的討論就是部長我想跟"},{"start":157.476,"end":183.981,"text":"跟您提一下就是國際不然是Grandview Research或是President's Research上面都有講到我們的全球的生態旅遊產值是相當高的甚至從我們自己的2024年的年度報告也都發現我們有65%的人是非常喜歡是非常喜歡來參加這個台灣的生態旅遊我們的自然景觀其實是非常有競爭力的那"},{"start":186.221,"end":206.855,"text":"所以呢我們在2002年的時候呢當時其實是有做了一個生態旅遊白皮書但是就沒有之後了那我們現在遇到一個困境就是說生態旅遊在全世界這麼的發達那國外的旅客也很喜歡來看可是我們現在生態旅遊分散在國家公園法發展觀光條例和森林法"},{"start":207.395,"end":218.541,"text":"不同的法規裡面有不同的部會各自去管理那雖然說2002年有這個跨部會的小組提出了這樣子的一個白皮書那當初的建議事項其實都已經達成了"},{"start":219.482,"end":237.81,"text":"但是這麼多年過去了我們還是遇到了很多的食物上的問題也就是說現在社區有自主的協會培訓居民來擔任導覽員像是阿里山 拉拉山 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報告委員您剛剛所說的問題其實觀光署也有發現到這樣的狀況那這段時間其實蠻多人在反映這樣的議題那這個部分我覺得觀光署可以做出一個討論或者是引導的方向看怎麼讓大家比較有方向可以去依循那不過像委員剛剛有提到一個很重要的現在管轄的單位可能分散在各個部會"},{"start":342.651,"end":360.796,"text":"那我請觀光署這邊可以來統合討論一下不一定全部的管理權限都能夠拉在觀光署這邊但是統合討論一下我覺得這是應該要開啟的動作因為我們沒有開啟這樣子的動作對於很多想要參與這方面的觀光遊程的人來說會是非常困擾的會是非常困擾"},{"start":362.976,"end":381.236,"text":"而且我們也沒有整體去思考說我們的大自然的承載量可以承載到什麼程度沒有一個總體的規劃或許觀光署來開啟這樣的討論甚至在我們的政觀之裡面是不是可以來做這樣子的題目的討論這樣可以跨部會來做一個討論跟決定我覺得會是比較好的方向"},{"start":381.496,"end":404.384,"text":"好 因為我想就是說今天那邊的地下經濟對旅客也沒有保障那今天沒有做好環境層載量評估對於生態永續發展也有不好的一個影響啦所以我想就是剛剛部長我非常感謝就是你願意開始來這樣子的討論因為我想我也提供一個案例來作為參考就是說其實澳洲呢它也有相關的從聯邦城籍到地方州政府"},{"start":405.144,"end":430.785,"text":"都有一個相對的一個法規跟管理機制的認證那我覺得這也是可以提供我們的交通部啦觀光所這邊是不是可以來去更進一步的提出具體的生態旅遊政策目標然後搭配我們的流程簡化還有受保護區的評估指引以及原住民合作的一個機制讓我們的生態旅遊有門檻有誘因也有清楚的管理邏輯"},{"start":433.208,"end":449.077,"text":"再來就是說我們在哥斯大利加還特別加入了一個環境影響性評估所以我想剛剛部長其實也有承諾了那我想我們大概多久的時候可以有一個研議或是評估是不是要往這個方向繼續來前進我們三個月的時間來評估這件事好不好"},{"start":450.738,"end":463.407,"text":"包含我們這個政官制的部分看有沒有辦法來做這樣子的提案我們上個月左右來評估那我也希望可以一併討論一件事情他有沒有需要進入修法這是不是也可以一併來評估好不好 謝謝修法陳明文也一併討論謝謝委員好 謝謝張雅玲委員"}]}},{"id":"167332","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167332","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88de47b1db7e53600a52fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76badc3fb96d4c95e3195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"11:52:59 - 12:07:53","影片長度":"00:14:54","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 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有專業學會 急診醫學會大家來討論那時候的幾個原則是第一個希望是民眾就醫在社區裡面方便的地方"},{"start":97.21,"end":121.627,"text":"能夠提供一站式的服務啦至少要能夠做檢查檢驗基本的檢驗檢查還有提供藥品第三個很重要的是說希望鄰近這個庸塞的醫院達到分流的效果所以才會做我們是給這個原則然後由衛生局去責定所以這個台北市確實它現在責定的三個點"},{"start":122.868,"end":135.963,"text":"看起來績效並不好所以我們也提到當時候就講十四半年後因為這是一個事半十四半年後會再進行檢討因為我們比較擔心就是算那個店"},{"start":136.881,"end":163.021,"text":"當初也評估過 如果說真的無法像有的點 像台中的點也慢慢在增加了那桃園有的點也很好 量也很大台南就更不用說 它是功能非常好如果說店不是說很好寫 那有什麼其他的配套讓他更方便一點這就是根據今天的主題 聲音跟部長請教的部分那第二個其實就是有關於這個"},{"start":164.346,"end":190.548,"text":"癌症學名藥的韌性 這個會牽涉到有關於代品韌性一個很重要部分 那我一直都很關心癌症病友他們在接受醫療過程裡面有沒有好的這個完整的配套那其實也很謝謝我們在健保署在113年7月份就啟動了生物相似性的藥品的鼓勵示範計畫那這個示範計畫到現在為止看起來的確"},{"start":194.749,"end":204.554,"text":"從112年的這個相似藥的一定量是有明顯的上升那謝謝部長跟署長這段時間真的很用心的去讓"},{"start":206.455,"end":233.489,"text":"達到這個三贏的這個可能性從原來的113年的7.38%提升到111.9%那看起來成效很良好現在已經到17了所以已經超過兩倍了所以根據這個這麼良好的這個示範計畫的成果就從生物相試藥又把它擴大到所謂的這個化學治療"},{"start":234.955,"end":254.518,"text":"學名藥這個有點繞口啦因為到底這個癌症用藥對民眾來講就是抗癌用藥所以他比較難了解什麼是生物相似藥什麼是學名藥那等一下還有標靶還有免疫用藥等等那我們也知道這個其實是一個非常好的方向"},{"start":255.063,"end":284.022,"text":"那也透過這些執行的方式尤其是獎勵措施的確能夠發揮的這個臨床的這個引導作用那如果說把這個化學藥用進來以後其實他就會有所謂的口服跟增劑一般來講生物相似藥都是增劑那如果針對這個化學一般說的那個化療的化學藥物的玄尼藥的話他可能會有口服又有增劑那這個部分"},{"start":284.775,"end":311.161,"text":"到目前為止差不多半年左右針對於每一個處方口服針劑的獎勵點數的這些部分不曉得有沒有初步的成果可以讓我們知悉我們剛剛說有從7.38%已經到17%那這個化學治療學名藥部分不知道有沒有初步的成果有有有跟委員說明那個生物相似藥那個實施的比較早那是113年就開始實施了"},{"start":311.721,"end":332.792,"text":"那現在已經到17% 16.9% 17%所以成效很好那去年開始的 那是下半年才開始所以大概半年的時間 我們的這15個項目癌症的化學藥的學名藥的使用率也從43成長到53了 也增加了10%"},{"start":333.832,"end":352.653,"text":"所以成效也不錯所以我們下一步就是像委員提到的我們越來越多的癌症的標靶藥都要準備要過專利期所以接下來會有越多的學名藥所以我們打算從化療藥其實我們現在癌症的治療"},{"start":355.114,"end":378.061,"text":"這個標靶藥物我們核准的品項是多於化學治療的藥物啦所以我們要把一些錢省下來用更多的新藥所以我們下一步大概今年第二季嘛第二季我們就會擴大到所有的癌症治療藥物的學名藥都會納入這個獎勵的項目所以不管是口服的不管是針劑的都適用那麼每一個處方都有獎勵的點數"},{"start":379.881,"end":389.665,"text":"所以意思就是說原先希望能夠到達70%的學民用藥的部分透過更全面的真的學民要來提供獎勵的話這個能夠達到"},{"start":392.23,"end":412.897,"text":"到這個目標的機會就更為有他的可行性跟他對對對我們的獎勵就是兩個方式一個是醫師在處方每一個這個學名要處方下來都有一百五十點的獎勵然後整個年度如果因為你轉換了這個藥物之後那麼你的這個這個支出啊藥費支出下降"},{"start":413.377,"end":427.073,"text":"下降那個額度我們還是回饋到你的醫院總額不會讓你下降那你就可以拿去用更多的專利期內的新藥的採購或者用在其他的醫療服務點數"},{"start":428.534,"end":451.196,"text":"所以預計從第二劑開始就針對於所有的用藥包括癌症用藥的學名藥包括是標靶跟免疫都有機會那當然他需要符合一些要件嘛就是要有原開發廠專利到期同時具有原廠藥跟學名藥而且具有價差或者是不分價差都可以把它原液進來當作一個可以"},{"start":451.716,"end":471.028,"text":"透過處方開立獎勵的清單是那這個部分在執行的過程裡面有沒有需要透過共理會的核准還是說還是要還是需要還是有個程序是那因為你是第二季所以是不是三月的共理會希望三月的共理會會把它納為一個重要議題來做討論好那就非常謝謝讓這個民眾在用藥"},{"start":475.862,"end":495.896,"text":"好的服務品質的過程裡面也能夠讓這個三贏的政策可以持續的來推動這樣不僅我們這個可以這個供藥的韌性多元用藥供藥的韌性更好那也可以為健保省一些錢之後我們可以進更多的新藥是好謝謝謝謝那這個署長先請回座來"},{"start":499.398,"end":516.183,"text":"跟部長再討論一下醫事人員繼續教育積分任內工時的部分我相信所有的醫事人員都會努力的來從事所謂的繼續教育因為繼續教育後面可以對自己的本質學能有更好的一個成長"},{"start":516.883,"end":540.601,"text":"那更重要就是能夠維持這個好的醫療品質所以基本上呢根據這個醫事人員職業登記跟繼續教育辦法裡面每六年就必須要修滿一定的繼續教育的積分才能夠辦理職業執照的更新這個是一方面維持這個好的品質一方面又能夠讓所有的從業人員醫療的部分有更好的這個"},{"start":542.342,"end":553.918,"text":"相關的這個能力這個是非常好的部分那可是這個過程裡面到底是在接受教育訓練的過程裡面是應還是要得到"},{"start":554.744,"end":582.393,"text":"可以將這個積蓄交流學問列為公教或納入公使這個對一般的同仁來講有時候他很努力的付出的過程裡面那如何同時也能夠兼顧他的工作還有他這個有關於公使的部分那這部分好像部長那個時候也在114年10月23跟這個護理團體他們有做意見交流的會議上面有做一些處理那也希望"},{"start":583.634,"end":607.929,"text":"應該僱主將所有所有人員在六年內所需要完成的120點就是每一年20點的訓練時數能夠給予工價或納入工時可是在後來114年12月26日這個衛生福利部就出了公函給這個護理跟健康照護師結果我們看到的這個內容就是說有關醫事人員接受繼續教育醫療機構"},{"start":611.024,"end":628.984,"text":"或得於每年20小時的範圍內餘工價這個譬如說大家在煩惱這個到底是願還是得跟委員說明這個勞動部在去年的10月有一個函示就是對於雇主要求這個員工應受的這個"},{"start":629.785,"end":645.618,"text":"在職訓練因那為公實所以我們現在未來的做法是這樣這個醫事人員的基本的積蓄消費基金6年120個小時的部分是因所以我們會再重新解釋說每年20或6年120個小時這個範圍內這個是醫事人員被法規所要求你要繼續執行業務要完備的所以要視為"},{"start":658.248,"end":677.226,"text":"雇主要求你的員工要完成的這個要因但是超出的部分你要鼓勵這個員工去進修什麼那這個就是德啦讓他有一個彈性120個小時6年120個小時每年20個小時以內這個是因超出的部分是德"},{"start":678.928,"end":693.793,"text":"公務人員也是嗎?包括我們其他的這個復活勞動的朋友這些相關的這個醫事人員都算嗎?是是是謝謝所以看起來今年在1月20號再發一個函式讓他離清楚"},{"start":694.133,"end":723.108,"text":"好好好因為這個部分也真的需要部長透過好的方式來示意包括說無論上課的形式跟地點都應該納為公式因為我們知道有一些是透過視訊有一些是到實體的部分那另外用下班的時間去上課的話就是說我下班後我又有這個訓練的需求我再去上課的話那這一部分可不可以納為加班"},{"start":724.929,"end":749.51,"text":"就是說我如果利用時間我已經下班了我去上這個繼續教育的課那有完成的話那可不可以算是加班再過來就是單位主管是不是針對這個列為繼續教育課程的內容還要不要再審查就是說好像這個既然都已經是屬於正式的這個教育課程的話有的朋友說我要去審查"},{"start":750.371,"end":776.934,"text":"我同意不同意的這個課程是屬於繼續教育如果已經得到認可的話還需不需要經過這個審查的程序這個部分可能也要麻煩部長利用在說明的時候或者是這些韓文的時候能夠把這些的部分當然也能夠讓所有這個議事同仁都能夠很確定的了解好我們在下一個函的時候我們把它釐清那當然這個"},{"start":779.235,"end":803.282,"text":"很簡單的做法反正你就是一年有20個小時的繼續教育的時數是認列在公司這是最簡單嘛這樣的做法是最容易的醫事人員他們會自己衡量你只有20個小時嘛那你結果20個小時去報出來的不是被認列在未來繼續教育那個是醫政"},{"start":803.982,"end":820.107,"text":"主管機關就是衛生局要認列的那個不在那個裡面那裡當然就必須額外去付出嘛好 那個就沒有問題還有一個部分就是上班時間如果同時上線去修這個課程的話那公司要怎麼計算可能到時候也要麻煩保證員額外索購一下"},{"start":824.872,"end":835.719,"text":"這個確實有這種情形譬如說我們會有一些Meeting那個Meeting就在你的上班時間那個Meeting又去報繼續教育的有這種狀況"},{"start":837.901,"end":861.882,"text":"這樣委員知道我們在醫院morning meeting 經常報學分嘛那個也在你的工時裡面那所以這個其實就是已經在你的工時裡面已經符合規定了這個就沒有額外再報那講的是說額外的你上班時間以外的那應該視為工假或者是工時要把它算進去算在總工時啦當天是在你的工作時間內參加的活動"},{"start":864.884,"end":884.949,"text":"你本來就是在Meeting然後報了學分那這個好像就沒有額外報了但是你額外的這個不在今天的工時額外的那應該要認列在你的每月的總工時裡面好好如果有一些疑惑的話用QA的方式來呈現再麻煩部長好謝謝謝謝謝謝王振旭委員發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167337","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167337","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a88327ad13d4efe8d9b6bf384bcbb560abab6e897797ecb76ba39e6445d9208886c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"11:51:13 - 11:57:25","影片長度":"00:06:12","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)行政院函請審議、(二)委員蔡其昌等19人、(三)委員賴惠員等23人、(四)委員李昆澤等18人、(五)委員洪孟楷等20人、(六)委員林倩綺等23人及(七)委員鄭天財Sra 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也要麻煩邀請我們部長還有鐵道局楊局長 還有台鐵公司請鄭光源董事長 還有公路局局長請053局長"},{"start":13.783,"end":32.362,"text":"委員好部長好今天也算是這個會期最後一次委員會開會我想還是來盤點一下我這個選區內的重大的交通建設的一些現況跟我們未來的一個這個可能預估的規劃簡單的看能不能跟我簡單說明一下第一個就是我們的"},{"start":34.224,"end":57.446,"text":"這個台六十二線延伸萬里金山的部分還有宜蘭的部分這可能都有經過我的選區那第二個就是這個台北民生線捷運的部分的一個現在整合的過程那就先請我們看部長還是局長沒關係都可以首先跟委員報告就是說我們關鍵那個台六十二往西往東的部分那這兩個計畫我們都是按照這個目標時程在推進這個當中"},{"start":58.767,"end":82.863,"text":"那這個就是說往西的部分那大概我們也在規劃就是說這個前島工程包括景美路還有那個另外一條就是關到下面去以後要出土的那個部分我們也在規劃要拓寬然後那另外往東的部分那這個院裡面也非常這個陳志文那邊也非常這個關切也在關切說如何相關的這個騎乘可以在這一個加速"},{"start":83.163,"end":106.568,"text":"那這兩個計畫的部分這可能環評或是綜合國家報告或是系社相關的期程有沒有相關的一些進度或者是預計可以跟民眾來說明系部的部分我是不是會後提供一個書面資料給你因為兩個計畫有些細節的部分我再提供書面資料給你所以台六的網系原則上應該現在應該在重規跟環評當中那我們預計今年或明年可不可以走完"},{"start":108.465,"end":122.93,"text":"先導工程的部分我們是預計說明年可以有一個先導工程先導工程明年的部分先做先動工那廣東到投誠那個部分的話因為廣東這個可能行政院剛核定那你們的重規跟環評大概哪時候要啟動"},{"start":124.207,"end":145.667,"text":"現在已經在做這個就是中規的招標的一個上網作業當中準備中規的招標的前置作業那個部分的話因為計畫比較大那個相關前置作業準備需要一點時間但是都是on schedule在做處理好 謝謝局長那接下來我們台北名勝縣的捷運是不是"},{"start":146.994,"end":174.126,"text":"局長可以說明一下我們現在之前有拜託我們鐵道局整合一下三四尤其是機場部分的一個經費分攤的一些問題嘛不曉得我們現在的進度是怎麼樣跟委員報告就是明汐縣的要增設八堵機場的這樣的一個經費分攤因為它涉及到明汐縣這個計畫跟西東捷運還有基隆捷運這個計畫那鐵道局在1月16號有召集相關單位來做開會演商"},{"start":175.006,"end":202.343,"text":"那當然因為這裡面的這個方案的分攤它的經費來說相對比較複雜一點但是我們有一個結論就是說基本上八堵機場的這個經費必須要納入明細縣的這個計畫裡面去做處理那怎麼樣去減少這個行政上的成本也就是說怎麼在明細縣這個計畫裡面呢可不可以透過不同的負擔比例來去做處理而不要去動到另外兩個計畫我覺得相對是比較複雜"},{"start":203.544,"end":226.223,"text":"那所以我們後續還會再跟這個新北市政府還有台北市政府來做那我們預計下一次的會議有沒有預計哪時候要可能這段時間要收集資料嘛整理一些大家意見那我們預計下一階段哪時候在藥劑山的地方政府前一次是還沒有規劃啦我想我們再來催促一下這個新北市政府因為上一次您說1月16嘛對不對好不好你們應該是給一個期限然後請他們整理一下資料在一定的時間內我們再來積極的討論啦再拜託我們的局長再幫忙那個林局長先休息一下沒關係"},{"start":232.068,"end":248.123,"text":"好那部長那我今天要跟您討論的另外一個是我們台鐵啦台鐵的一個運輸效率的問題因為我們的軌道現在就是這樣子那我們的其實在尖峰時刻那在北部的這個軌道容量的運輸大概都已經使用到達上限了啦那其實一直以來我們今天都有在講這個"},{"start":250.265,"end":254.848,"text":"避手區間的問題我們現在的台鐵原則上都是用固定式避手區間對不對那很多的民眾都提到說那我們有沒有辦法把它做一些規劃把它變成移動式的避手區間來增加我們鐵道的容量讓我們有可能有更多的車輛能夠通行那不曉得實務上這可能是民間的意見還是說我們有沒有做過相關的評估那它的可行性是怎麼樣子的"},{"start":276.5,"end":292.95,"text":"包委員 這個牽涉到耗資相關相當複雜的這個內容我在想說要不要請市長還是總經理這邊來因為我們軌道不沒關係 沒關係 誰講都可以因為軌道不可能拓寬了嘛我們唯一有機會的就是就從耗資系統下去改變那有沒有機會那它或者說困難點在哪一邊我麥克風"},{"start":297.637,"end":323.803,"text":"好 報告委員就是移動式必賽的區間剛委員講沒有錯我們現在就是固定必賽一個固定必賽大概1.5到2公里左右那移動必賽現在目前針對傳統鐵路各國現在目前並沒有做到移動必賽只有在捷運系統有做到CBTC就是列車互相通訊那這個部分在德國的這個STUGA"},{"start":325.043,"end":350.978,"text":"跟這個JR的系統現在有在做研究但都僅止於POC就是概念驗證的階段那所以目前如果要在台鐵來利用這種移動式比賽的系統耗資系統來提升運能短期是幾乎是不可能那我們有要做相關的研究嗎你說可能德國做一些研究或者說國外的研究的經驗我們有沒有在參考"},{"start":352.13,"end":367.155,"text":"有我們現在先前也都有透過跟幾位幾個高科大或是我們的中研院工研院都有集合相關專家學者有做過探討好像要"},{"start":367.995,"end":394.008,"text":"先做參考國外的這個開發的經驗來做一個專案不過這個目前都還是在我想總經理的意思表達應該是理論上可行但是實務上可能會因為可能列車種類太過複雜導致他在實施上面有一些困難但是這個方案是唯一目前唯一可能增加我們鐵道運輸量能的唯一的方式"},{"start":394.97,"end":418.655,"text":"對 就一個是透過移動B賽 他也是會縮短列車的間距另外一個是先前有討論過 就是把B賽區間把它縮短但是B賽區間縮短 必須要增加這個道旁的耗資系統所以那個投入的成本會很高好 我想這部分也要可能請我們交通部支持一下鐵道剛剛有講過 不可能拓寬的 容量就這樣子"},{"start":420.115,"end":446.481,"text":"車已經就這麼多的在跑了我們也不可能再像高鐵一樣還可以加車嘛對不對 台鐵還有容量嘛高鐵還有容量 台鐵沒有容量啦對啊 那就是說在現有的條件下再拜託我們的部長 公關運輸再請您多給無論是可能鐵道局做研究或是台鐵公司地線營運等等的我們再給一些支持 好不好那另外再提一個小的問題其實這個跟你的業務也沒什麼關係啦但是我是覺得你也可以盡一份心力的部分啦就是小樹市集你有沒有聽過"},{"start":448.329,"end":462.866,"text":"小樹市集小樹市集你沒聽過小樹市集他大概就是一個這個很多家長啦小朋友的東西換得很快嘛對不對那所以說他們就是有一些二手的一些小朋友的東西都會大家交流一下擺個攤那其實這個東西在雙北我"},{"start":463.567,"end":479.529,"text":"在雙北很盛行我不知道有沒有慢慢地往可能中南部去延伸那它就需要一個很大的公共的一個場域那其實在地方政府它都有支持那我有想其實我們交通部下面有台鐵對不對但是我們的台鐵因為我們是營運單位所以它都有一些"},{"start":481.391,"end":497.425,"text":"這個場地出租的辦法無論是盈利型的或是公益型的其實它這樣子的一個租金的收取模式它是沒有辦法讓小數市集在這邊去設置的因為小數市集它的本身的精神它並不是要賺錢或盈利而是基於資源永續爸爸媽媽覺得資源這個東西用沒幾次"},{"start":500.407,"end":519.737,"text":"大家來交換對 大家來交換一下這樣子的一個概念我是覺得大家可以評估一下因為我們地方政府既然都可以把這個空間拿出來來做爸爸媽媽的一個交流的場域我覺得我們台鐵我知道有現行的規定既然有現行的規定那我們就是要去做一些突破我覺得可以參考地方政府的一些經驗把我們的台鐵也可以跟友善育兒或者是"},{"start":525.321,"end":541.202,"text":"這個資源的永續利用去做一個結合啦我就是認為交通部這不是你的業務但是我認為你們或許可以做一件對國家也是有幫助的事情我們這個交通廠站的部分我們都一併來討論討論看有沒有這樣的可能性好 謝謝部長 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民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T11:44:36+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T11:52:53+08:00","duration":497,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.35159375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.41034375,"end":3.1697187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.970968750000001,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.1353437500000005,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.665968750000001,"end":20.247218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.60159375,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.36471875,"end":28.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.47784375,"end":36.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.814093750000005,"end":61.422218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.219718750000006,"end":61.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.384093750000005,"end":70.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.586593750000006,"end":62.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.99909375,"end":69.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.00721875,"end":71.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.90159375,"end":84.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.64659375000001,"end":84.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.76034375,"end":92.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.18534375,"end":103.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.96471875,"end":102.14159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.32284375,"end":109.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.93346875,"end":129.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.27284375,"end":127.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.80846875,"end":131.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.97659375,"end":142.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.33096875,"end":132.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.15221875,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.95534375,"end":159.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.40159375000002,"end":193.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.43034375000002,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.17221875,"end":176.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.40159375000002,"end":199.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.00409375,"end":213.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.82659375,"end":201.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.24659375000002,"end":226.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.25346875000002,"end":223.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.04221875000002,"end":241.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.64784375000002,"end":237.96846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.80346875,"end":248.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.44784375,"end":252.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.73034375,"end":250.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.84409375,"end":256.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.40909375,"end":253.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.07971875,"end":259.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.04534375000003,"end":269.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.49221875,"end":261.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.37784375,"end":264.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.87909375000004,"end":274.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.24971875,"end":282.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.20721875000004,"end":276.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.04596875000004,"end":304.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.53596875,"end":305.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.32909375,"end":337.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.70846875,"end":309.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.39034375,"end":319.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.71659375,"end":367.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.96159375,"end":362.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.20596875,"end":365.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.65284375000005,"end":369.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.71596875,"end":369.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.99846875000003,"end":387.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.87096875000003,"end":377.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.73409375,"end":400.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.60971875,"end":421.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.46971875,"end":405.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.54409375,"end":415.69596875},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按照他的財政的一個來源那如果說按照國民黨跟民眾黨的版本是希望完全是中央來支撐那你的態度是什麼"},{"start":38.304,"end":61.738,"text":"跟委員報告現在我們談的有幾個不同的項目就是在這個基本數的部分會涉及到保險給付跟津貼那我們現在目前的設計就是提高的部分的差額是由就是月的版本是由中央來支付第二個就是"},{"start":62.718,"end":84.228,"text":"關於商帳給付的增益是希望說能夠增加到10個月嗎那現在你們提的版本是大概商帳商帳我們沒有在這一次我們增加的範圍裡面因為它是一次性的我們這一次修法主要是針對年金的部分的保障"},{"start":84.848,"end":108.259,"text":"配偶的罰則因為他其實沒有設計很大的預算是不是應該立即實行配偶罰則我看幾位委員也有這個版本我們行政院的版本也是把它刪除的盡快可以審查之後就可以實施針對這次的急診主題就是想要問一些問題為什麼只有13處的UCC"},{"start":111.23,"end":131.39,"text":"這個是一開始我們針對當然一開始是想到那個庸塞的醫院主要都是在六都啦所以先從六都試辦那未來呢我們會按照這個民眾的需求會去評估是不是在其他的縣市也會擴大那我們先用試辦完之後再來檢討就是醫療院所只有一個是診所"},{"start":132.071,"end":161.003,"text":"那我想說這個一個診所他目前到現在為止跟其他醫院的那個他所服務的量的比較有沒有特別不好還是特別好還是差不多根文報告因為我們在這一次設UCC的時候的一個考量就是希望能夠一站式服務所以他不是像一般的診所他要能夠提供X光那他要提供這個檢驗還要能夠提供藥品才不會讓病人進來然後到處去轉診跑來跑去因為我看到那個所以要"},{"start":161.523,"end":186.816,"text":"同時達到這三個條件那個診所的規模要比較大我看那五大症狀我覺得說如果要用到醫院的成績很像是大材小用我是想說是不是應該是比較剛剛講的那幾個規模有的話就可以懲罰不然這樣子的話只有十三處然後全國這麼多地方而且只有六都才有那我們就在屏東的還有就在台東就是只會流口水"},{"start":187.336,"end":212.891,"text":"那我想說這次我們這個急診的大概你說目前是只有開診率是17%那我們這個偏鄉地區怎麼辦開診率啊就是過年的開診率我們現在還在調查當中那這個在以台東來講啦這個醫院都開了啦什麼醫院都開了對醫院都開了診所的部分還在鼓勵"},{"start":213.571,"end":238.813,"text":"我剛剛現在我聽到你們講到APP的部分是不是我比如說我今天旅行到南投好了那我是不是我周圍10公里內的有開業的診所或者是醫院就會如果有需求的我可以查得到我們那個APP就是先選你在哪個縣市哪一個區然後區之後還可以選你這個是哪一天你在哪一天今天是哪一天然後你是要看上午還是下午還是晚上時段然後選完之後它就"},{"start":239.474,"end":268.533,"text":"有開的通通就會列出來民眾已經可以完全的就是說上手了嗎有去實地去試看看嗎我們剛上線今天才剛上線我是覺得說你可以做一個evaluation比如說一個禮拜一個月以後一個月我們再調整然後下禮拜我們正式發布新聞稿我剛剛看了UCC的一些就是說申請的或者說一些懶人包那我比較沒有看到就是說針對UCC這個部分它有沒有所謂的考評"},{"start":269.934,"end":292.964,"text":"你們以後針對他們的這個以後他們的績效或是怎麼樣我們有幾個KPI啦除了看診量之外還有一個就是民眾的就醫滿意度那個都有在評估裡面最後就是我們針對我們醫療獎勵金發放的這個部分當然很多人都在講說加班費或是值班費應該免稅啦當然我們是百分之百支持"},{"start":293.524,"end":307.781,"text":"那是不是各個類型的子斑斑有些名稱都不太一樣所以你要怎麼去全部那邊在裡面比如說我們3D離島那個叫做它的名稱就叫IDS嘛"},{"start":308.922,"end":337.165,"text":"真的是可以納入在這次所謂的加班費值班費的一個免稅的因為這個這個其實對像我們偏鄉服務的人其實大部分的收入都是來自於這些他明明就是值班費可是他的名稱不是這個名稱嘛他就是什麼醫療獎助計畫然後那個名稱所以我是覺得說是不是你應該全部全面只要是醫護人員領到的相關的這個費用只要是關於值班費應該是加入納入那個免稅的範圍"},{"start":338.285,"end":366.965,"text":"對跟委員說明就是說在醫院的工作人員除了醫師以外都納入勞基法所以勞基法他就有工時規定跟他加班費免稅這已經適用那我們現在處理的是因為醫院沒有納入勞基法所以他的很多加班費他沒有辦法適用免稅規定所以才有這一次這個議題的討論那我們現在在計算的時候就醫師的部分我們是用他的總收入除以總工時所以即使你去IDS他也算入工時也算入收入所以他會被納在裡頭"},{"start":367.785,"end":387.265,"text":"這一個解決的方向對那最後就是關於那個獎勵金的那個他確實有沒有領到是不是一個申訴專線或者申訴的制度讓醫護委員去不要因為醫院的一些他的考量而延遲發放或者是說沒有發放給他是不是要讓醫護委員知道有這方面的一個訊息"},{"start":388.105,"end":411.478,"text":"我們同步也在新聞稿裡面也把它提出來我們是有一個護理的那個正義的申訴平台那因為這次可能還涉及到其他我們看看是不是用同樣的平台我看到一個所謂的門診打抗申訴這個部分就是OPAT那如果說他確實是在家裡需要一些諮詢的話他要怎麼來跟相關的醫療人員來聯絡"},{"start":413.659,"end":435.675,"text":"我在家裡打疫苗 打抗生素如果我有一些醫療的問題 我要怎麼去呈現我們這個OPAT的這個方案都是要求醫院要設立那個專線的就是他在過程當中有需要他有可以接觸的窗口 都有所以我們才有給管理費"},{"start":436.195,"end":455.494,"text":"我一個建議就是說其實在各個衛生局的那個窗口其實可以用一個APP就是說讓今天我原本放假可是後來我不想放假可是我有些地方可以去值班或者是去做這些諮詢的服務的一個工作因為一定會遇到一些人力的問題嘛"},{"start":456.375,"end":484.734,"text":"那我覺得我們常常會卡在什麼報備啊這些東西所以如果說你是把這些醫療的量能把它放在我們的衛生局的一個平台上面的話如果說我今天想要上班然後我就可以去看比如說恆春這邊可能缺醫生或者是缺護理人員我可以就就可以即時去報備然後我就可以去做這樣一個支援的動作其實也可以相對簡體我們偏鄉的這個醫療的量那個服務量"},{"start":485.234,"end":489.643,"text":"那是很好的主意 我們來研究看看好 謝謝部長很謝謝盧委員好 謝謝盧憲毅委員發言接下來請王振旭委員發言"}]}},{"id":"167342","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167342","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/58229044bac95a8800f8bd3a703cf72852fd623850d83d5bb6e897797ecb76ba4db96ec05ca036185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"12:23:29 - 12:34:12","影片長度":"00:10:43","會議時間":"2026-01-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部就「春節急診醫療人力調度與跨院協調機制之現況與精進作為」暨「假日及連續假期急重症分級醫療政策之執行成效與改進方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n五、 委員馬文君等20人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、 委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n八、 委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、 委員陳俊宇等29人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十、 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第十五條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、 委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十二、 委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十三、 民進黨黨團擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、 委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、 委員吳思瑤等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、 委員郭國文等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十七、 委員王美惠等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十九、 委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【專題報告與討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2026-01-29","start_time":"2026-01-29T12:23:29+08:00","end_time":"2026-01-29T12:34:12+08:00","duration":643,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-4-26-22"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9590937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.9590937500000001,"end":1.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.26659375,"end":12.771593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.46346875,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.57721875,"end":60.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.73034375,"end":61.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.16909375,"end":62.367218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.83971875,"end":75.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.69096875000001,"end":69.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.91034375000001,"end":70.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.07409375,"end":115.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.36846875,"end":81.75659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.96284375,"end":85.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.19909375,"end":85.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.20221875,"end":92.65784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.54096875,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.92846875000001,"end":155.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.98096875000002,"end":132.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.43159375000002,"end":136.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.10971875,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.27346875,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.85971875,"end":151.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.58096875,"end":153.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.33596875,"end":229.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.35159375,"end":162.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.50284375,"end":166.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.86471875,"end":173.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.50284375,"end":193.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.63596875000002,"end":205.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.59409375,"end":232.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.63596875000002,"end":350.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.74846875000003,"end":242.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.43034375000002,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.76784375000003,"end":252.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.18534375000002,"end":254.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.88096875,"end":258.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.23409375,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.86221875,"end":270.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.41346875,"end":279.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.81784375,"end":284.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.76284375,"end":285.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.36596875000004,"end":286.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.62284375,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.92159375,"end":295.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.22471875,"end":299.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.76409375000003,"end":304.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.74284375,"end":305.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.94034375,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.53034375000004,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.54534375000003,"end":326.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.70534375,"end":328.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.14221875000004,"end":341.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.25596875,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.47409375,"end":350.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.49096875000004,"end":369.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.41909375,"end":352.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.37034375,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.21784375000004,"end":370.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.97721875,"end":396.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.70221875000004,"end":376.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.71471875000003,"end":377.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.17346875000004,"end":384.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.75471875000005,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.48034375000003,"end":391.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.58534375000005,"end":394.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.72846875000005,"end":414.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00",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剛剛中委員有特別提到就是說我們現在老農年金已經提高到一萬"},{"start":13.533,"end":40.898,"text":"老農我說老農那當然就是很多民眾期待就是說我們國民年金的部分也能夠比照老農那當然就是說我們這個如果是加入國民年金原本他可能就是沒有就是沒有從事這個沒有加入勞保那全部都是加入這個國民年金所以我們會覺得說有點這個有加入"},{"start":42.118,"end":60.351,"text":"領國民年金的這些民眾其實在這所有的這個保險當中應該是領得最少的啦領得最少的那有沒有可能現在我那天看到我們行政院已經有拍板就是說目前就是提高到5000那是不是可以再往上"},{"start":61.432,"end":84.694,"text":"其實現在整個我們這個物價上漲其實如果每個月五千其實還是非常的少那是不是可以請部長針對這部分你有什麼樣的想法跟委員報告 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