{"total":{"value":12,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2023-11-30"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"148817","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148817","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307d93cc69eac9312d000bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03221677080d570f7ede5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游毓蘭","委員發言時間":"09:24:20 - 09:47:00","影片長度":"00:22:40","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":1360,"end_time":"2023-11-30T09:47:00+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T09:24:20+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":106,"blocks":[["游委員毓蘭：（9時24分）謝謝主席，我要先請林部長、警政署黃署長。"],["主席：好，請林部長、黃署長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["游委員毓蘭：部長好。部長，昨天自由時報有這樣一則新聞：警監占警察人力不到1%。其實不是1%，只有0.53%，我們看簡任文官占5.18%，而警察的高階警官只占文官的1/10，難道警察比較「細漢」，所以我們在橫向聯繫的時候，都會被人家欺負，這個好像是不爭的事實。我知道警政署很努力，他們規劃了刑事、航空、國道公路、鐵路警察局及保安警察總隊督察長的職務提升至警監，結果不是40個，唯一獲准的是刑事局的科技犯罪防制中心和刑事鑑識中心主任2個，我們要調升40個，只給2個，部長，請問到底是誰在擋？是人總？銓敘部？還是都在擋？我們要不要據理力爭？"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，我想兩個部分，第一個是警察的等階表、官職等部分，這當然涉及考試院權責，不過我們也一直在爭取，目前也都有好的回應，這個沒有人在擋，不過我們是充分說明來爭取他們的支持。委員提到的今年有一個初步成果，這其實也是行政院跟人總還有考試院支持的一個結果，剛剛提到的其他部分，是列入第二個階段來處理，基本上已經有共識了。"],["游委員毓蘭：部長，我為什麼對這件事情很關切，因為我即將畢業，我在這邊還要再舊事重談，我已經質詢過很多次，但是銓敘部給我的回應就是擔心同層級機關相關職務的衡平性跟衍生要求援引比照；人總更是大言夸夸，直接就告訴內政部，就好像自由時報的標題，人總要求內政部要四面向檢討，檢討什麼？檢討職務歷練順序、職務職責程度、業務性質、機關層次等等，哇！其實最近我們有一些考察，包括國家公園署，我們也聽到國家公園署裡也有很不衡平的，比如玉山國家公園管理處處長，管的幅員是多麼遼闊，他才幾職等？非常非常低，這些都是那些坐在冷氣房裡面的銓敘部或人總沒有看到的，事實上，我覺得除了目前警政署已經在爭取的這40個警監職務外，本席直接就向部長報告，我知道在你就任之後，對幫助我們所有警界、警消做了很多努力，也很努力去溝通，包括直轄市的科室主管，小聯盟的縣市主秘、督察長，以及現在因應性平三法及少事法等等，其實少年隊跟婦幼隊獨立運作已經不合時宜，應該要有一個類似叫保護大隊之類的單位，這個我在十幾年前做的一個研究報告就已經提出來了，以及專業警察機關的督察長，都應該調整為警監職務，還有刑事偵查跟交通都這麼重要了，可是小聯盟的刑大跟交通主管還是只有二線四，就是矮人一級，部長，不是只有剛剛講的40人、40個警監，他們很多都是直屬機關的，他沒有看到各縣市地方警察機關運作上的實務需求，部長，可不可以承諾也一併考量？"],["林部長右昌：謝謝委員的這些意見，我覺得這些都是很正向的看法，我們會來努力。"],["游委員毓蘭：是，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝。"],["游委員毓蘭：部長，昨天內政委員會到警大去，我必須在這邊公開向所有警消同仁講，我們現在難得有一個身體力行、最挺警消的部長，而且是劍及履及。今年3月30日我在這個地方提到警大和警專學生伙食費每個月只有3,258元，當時我還說去年師範公費生就已經調到4,300元。部長，我最感動的是您劍及履及，馬上去見院長，我們3月30日提出質詢，你在5月1日就讓警大、警專學生，以及在保一、保四、保五受訓的特考班在訓學員的伙食費終於調到比較合理的4,300元。但是昨天我們去警大，我必須要講警大這幾年來的預算不斷的從零基開始，而且還要統刪5%，警大真的已經到了無以為繼的地步，部長已經看到過，警察大學系所的行政費用，包括辦學術活動等等，在我退休前還可以弄到七、八萬，但是對於一個行政警察大系是沒有辦法的，我自己知道巧婦難為無米之炊，所以退出了、退休了。部長您今年去的時候，校長跟我說原本一個系一年只有兩萬塊，可是今年您幫他爭取了。但是還有很多問題，昨天我們看到最嚴重的問題是綜合警技館因為建築的問題而嚴重漏水，現在說有32個臉盆在那邊接水。雨季即將來臨，今天開始下雨了，這個漏水的問題馬上會越來越嚴重。還有警大學生活動非常多的操場，現在因為年久失修，裡面不管是紅螞蟻也好，或者是大蚯蚓也好，我把它叫做「地無一米平」，不好意思，警察大學校長是「人無三兩銀」，想要修都沒有辦法修。部長，這要怎麼幫他們呢？"],["林部長右昌：非常謝謝委員垂詢，昨天之後我有詢問一下楊校長，因為之前他們的預算和經費也還沒有提出來，我在今年年初去視察的時候，也並沒有反映這個問題，我如果知道的話就會立即處理。我現在是請楊校長把相關的預算提出來，警技館的部分可能需要九千四百多萬，操場的部分可能需要三百多萬，我想對於警大生及警大的教學環境我們會全力來支持。"],["游委員毓蘭：謝謝部長作出這樣的承諾，我們也希望警大儘快把預算的計畫提出來，不能再等到114年。","我先請部長及校長回座，接下來我要請交通部王部長，警政署黃署長也請您留著。"],["王部長國材：召委好。"],["游委員毓蘭：謝謝部長。我在立法院這四年來，其實我知道您做了很多事情，雖然我們的交通是「積重」，但我不相信「難返」，雖然積重，還是一定要把它救回來。我剛剛聽到您的報告裡面有提到記點制、猶豫期等等，也就是讓他們先改善，我尊重交通部的專業，但是我看到聯合報的報導，在臺北市議會的質詢裡面就直接提到臺北市記點轉移4個月19萬件黃牛轉賣，這不是唯一的，因為我們也在臉書上面看到沒有用到的聯結車駕照，因為修法要用到責任歸屬的點數問題，我不知道為什麼大型貨運、聯結車不是來徵司機，而是徵駕照？部長，這難道是我們修這個法的時候所想要做到的嗎？我之所以請黃署長也留著的原因是，敢這樣做就是吃定了警察在執法上面根本也沒辦法認清楚到底是誰違規，到時候你只要交一張證照出來就可以了，這樣子是把所有立法委員「裝肖維」嗎？在這裡修的法，結果都發生這種「上有政策，下有對策」的狀況，可不可以作個說明？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，這個我們有經過討論，現在主要是拍照以後，車主去證明是別人開的，如果找這個「別人」來，他如果有偽證的話，是要負刑法的規定……"],["游委員毓蘭：使公務員登載不實的罪。"],["王部長國材：對，登載不實的相關規定。這個部分我有請公路局及六都相關的單位進行討論，要讓他們知道這是刑法的問題，這個我們會處理。"],["游委員毓蘭：對，一定要抓，而且要用力的抓。部長，其實這主要還有一個原因，就是因為我們的隔熱紙貼得太黑了，駕駛座位那邊的隔熱紙黑到沒有辦法辨別是誰在開車，關於隔熱紙的規定有沒有辦法跟得上國際水準？"],["王部長國材：隔熱紙的部分我們有經過檢討，現在前擋風玻璃是70%的透光率，但是貼了隔熱紙以後可能就會下降，這部分我們現在已經有委託一個計畫在做，明年3月會先針對計程車，明年9月會研究小汽車的部分，為什麼會有這樣的研究？關於隔熱紙，第一個是品牌的問題，比如說從國外進來的到底要不要再做檢查，或是國外的認證就可以了？第二個是隔熱紙偵測的儀器也要檢驗，就像上次我們區間測速照相也發生一些狀況，所以這需要一些準備時間，大概明年3月我們會把初步方案提出來。"],["游委員毓蘭：部長，您剛剛說明年3月是先從計程車開始做起，如果您看到我的PowerPoint上面，莊富全的貼文是「大型駕駛，聯結車、大貨車、巴士、重型機械」，我覺得這些職業的車輛也應該在3月就要開始實施。"],["王部長國材：跟召委報告，目前在我們的定檢裡面只有針對計程車，也就是它從讀卡去看裡面有沒有透光，因為這是現在在定檢裡面就規定的，但是其他車輛在定檢時沒有規定，所以我們從……"],["游委員毓蘭：那就代表我們有漏洞，所以……"],["王部長國材：因為剛才提到很多相關的問題，包括設備隔熱紙的檢驗這個課題，請給我們一些時間，先針對計程車來實施，然後後續再來看。然後它也有談到所謂是不是既往不究的課題，所以它蠻複雜的，其實我們有重視到這個課題……"],["游委員毓蘭：我們不必再往回看，我們要往前看，既然已經發現這個問題的存在，我真的很希望交通部能夠儘快檢討職業的駕駛。"],["王部長國材：是，正在進行中。"],["游委員毓蘭：11月26日大概有三千多個重機車友及一千輛重機到交通部去陳情抗議，最主要是因為道交條例第九十二條修法已經通過十二年，當時第九十二條是說大重機可以行駛高速公路，我問過很多次，但是部長您都說因為六成的民意反對，所以到目前都還沒有開放任何時段或路段。"],["王部長國材：國3甲有開放。"],["游委員毓蘭：國3甲開放到現在好像也沒有什麼重大車禍是不是？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，針對這個部分，縱然當時是這樣規定，但是它授權給交通部針對可開放的路段進行研議，所以是給我們一個權力。過去國3甲開放，然後快速道路開放，我們委託中華民國運輸學會研究，它是把大型重機的團體也找來，過去三個指標裡面最重要的就是安全指標，也就是事故的件數他們是OK的，但是技術指標和……"],["游委員毓蘭：所以是安全的嘛！您剛剛說他們是OK的……"],["王部長國材：對，但是……"],["游委員毓蘭：再聽清楚，在國3甲上的重機是安全的？"],["王部長國材：對，然後秩序……就是被違規取締的次數，還有一個很重要的是在我們討論裡面的行為指標，就是他們過去包括未保持安全間距變換車道或是類似機車的行為在國3甲鑽車縫等等，這個我們在106跟109的討論、研究，中華民國運輸學會……"],["游委員毓蘭：106跟109？請問現在是……112年了。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，現在這樣，我們的民意調查做了10次，最近一次是上個月做的，也是六成反對，他們的行為事實上他們都很清楚，因為他參與這個討論，他們如果能規範所有的重機以這三個指標把它做好，我們會願意再來討論。"],["游委員毓蘭：所以我們很希望你們能夠公布真正的數據，就好像在上個星期也是本委到嘉義市，嘉義市當時由內政部輔助做了一個我忘了是什麼路了，可能是中山路還是什麼路，大同國小前面有很多道路的改善工程，王美惠委員說：「機車族說有比較不方便，還有駕駛說本來是可以西瓜切，現在還要安全切。」但是當時內政部，現在國土管理署的署長就直接講：「可是你知道嗎？自從改善之後，那邊的A2車禍減少七成。」王美惠委員就說：「這個你們就要講啊！」所以因為一般包括嘉義市的市民機車族會覺得很不方便，本來有機車專用道，現在沒有，那個地方倒不是用車種來分向分道的，而是用同向來分流的。我覺得那個地方就可以變成我每次跟部長說的，我們不要強制用車種來分道，有時候造成不必要的交織，反而變成危險的路段，把那個地方當成一個實驗的，然後讓人民隨時知道原來即使我們稍微慢一點，可以讓大家和平共榮、平等來使用，我覺得這個是交通部應該要做的。所以我還是建議，部長對於台76八卦山隧道跟台74霧峰段開放大型重機車，我知道你們已經在11月20月完成專家協商會議，我聽說大家對開放好像都是持正向意見，有沒有可能在我卸任之前可以看到試辦？"],["王部長國材：這個部分他們的確有跟我做過報告，但是對於誤闖這個課題，我想這個部分我願意再來跟他們討論一下，過去我曾經給他們一個題目，就是誤闖跑到高速公路怎麼辦？這個問題……"],["游委員毓蘭：部長，如果講到誤闖……"],["王部長國材：我想再把它做完整。"],["游委員毓蘭：部長，那我就還要再加一句話，因為我自己也是一個開車族，說實在，我們會造成誤闖，難道交通部、公路局、高速公路局都沒有責任嗎？有機會的話，請你們在晚上去看看……"],["王部長國材：我們會再評估。"],["游委員毓蘭：五股交流道匝道上那邊的照明，以及標誌、標線都很不清楚，會造成誤闖並不是所有機車族，甚至於我知道還有腳踏車騎上去的都有，所以我們就是理性的來探討這個問題。"],["王部長國材：我願意再評估一次。"],["游委員毓蘭：好。另外一個，其實交通委員會的資深委員李昆澤委員也跟我有同樣的看法，我們現在交通之所以會亂是很多因地制宜，交通部訂的這些標誌標線的設置標準，這個你要怎麼看？居然高雄出現神祕道路標線，有的是在臺南，還有這個是新北，沒有最離譜，只有更離譜，當然行人、用路人絕對會混亂，而且會造成很多事故。那臺南的圓環，說真的，我最近常跑臺南，經常不知道什麼時候可以轉、該怎麼轉，然後臺南的用路人告訴我說，他們最慘的是現在都是用科技執法，造成很嚴重的問題，現在還有記點，所以觀光客說：「我很冤枉，來這邊不知道你們還有一圈三制，還有臺南市圓環這樣設計並沒有比較安全。」今年1到9月就發生了302件車禍、398人受傷，違規有6,686件，這還感謝科技執法，我覺得交通部你們應該要負起督導的責任，可以做到嗎？"],["王部長國材：的確，現在標誌標線號誌設置規則裡面事實上有規範怎麼放牌面、多大、什麼狀況，剛剛看到鋸齒狀，那是一個試辦，就是縮減讓他減速等等，但是委員所提的整體性的考量，在地方政府的確很亂，就是當他把各種標誌牌掛上去以後變很亂，這部分我已經責成我們同仁希望對於這些縣市做一些整體評估的建議，當然因為掛這些標誌牌都是地方政府的權限，我們願意從專業上來協助，整體掛上去以後可能產生的誤解，他們必須要處理，我想這部分我們交通部來協助。"],["游委員毓蘭：非常感謝，其實不只是紅燈右轉的問題，我們在城市裡面開車就像進入迷宮，這也是本席常常會請警政署交通組跟公路局一起來開會，不要讓執法的同仁站在第一線，自己「霧煞煞」，然後也造成警民關係的不良，我們所有交通安全的努力都付諸一簣，這太可惜了！"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["游委員毓蘭：非常感謝各位，我們繼續努力好不好？謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝游毓蘭委員。"],["主席（游委員毓蘭）：接下來請賴品妤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148816","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148816","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307d2114d99988c020690bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03225f9ce4f0ed6650c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"11:19:39 - 11:30:10","影片長度":"00:10:31","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":631,"end_time":"2023-11-30T11:30:10+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T11:19:39+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":443,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（11時19分）謝謝主席，有請交通部王國材部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長好，為了要遏止酒駕的行為，我們在111年1月24日的時候有修了刑法第一百八十五條之三，來加重罰金，可是我們來看一下111年到112年同期，這個刑法修了之後，到底酒駕的行為有沒有改善？看起來是沒有，是無減反增！我們從數字上面看來是這個樣子；今年的5月份我們又修了道交條例第三十五條，不管是吊扣駕照、吊銷駕照或者是提高罰鍰等等，5月份的時候施行，現在已經是11月了，我們來看5月到8月，修了道交條例第三十五條，我們看到酒駕的行為還是沒有改善的。現在怎麼辦呢？不管怎麼罰，好像這些人都覺得無所謂、無關痛癢，後續我們還有怎麼樣的作法嗎？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，我們的資料裡面，這是事故，我們車禍死亡的是有下降，就是死亡人數是呈現下降，相關的績效在我們看起來是這樣，當然這個數量還是很高，但是事實上酒駕在處罰條例已經修得很重了，這個是非常……"],["羅委員美玲：對啊！我就說已經很重了，可是大家好像也是罰不怕，最近我們快要聖誕節了，元旦也快到了，農曆年也快到了，我們知道每次到這些重要節日的時候其實我們都有取締，我們會設酒測站之類的，這也是行之有年了，可是我們發現，因為我們是酒駕零容忍，當然部長剛剛講的是死亡事故，但是我跟你講的是整體上因為酒駕引起的交通事故……"],["王部長國材：對、對，瞭解。"],["羅委員美玲：不管怎麼修法、怎麼加重罰鍰，其實酒駕的行為還是沒有改善。部長，我想請教一下，其實我比較希望是源頭管理，像美國在2021年的時候國會有敲定一個基礎建設計畫，當中有追加了一項道路運輸法案，要求未來的新車必須要配備可防止酒駕行駛的系統，就透過一些科技的偵測，譬如駕駛員如果坐上去之後被偵測到酒精有超標的話，它讓你的車子沒有辦法發動，像這個部分，我們有辦法來做嗎？"],["王部長國材：這個有在研究，我跟委員報告……"],["羅委員美玲：臺灣有在研究？"],["王部長國材：就是酒精的偵測器，偵測到，車子就沒辦法發動，這有在研究，但是我現在跟委員報告，我們目前大概有兩個，一個是剛剛有談的源頭管理，現在酒後代駕是全臺灣都有在做，我們去輔導了很多，包括計程車業者或是專門做酒後代駕的業者，所以你在餐廳如果要叫車……"],["羅委員美玲：對啦！部長，你講的這個部分我想國民都已經知道，像代駕的這個部分等等，也就是我們其實也祭出了很多的手段，希望能夠降低酒駕。我要講的就是不管罰鍰也好，各種手段也好，都沒有辦法讓酒駕引起的交通事故案件數降低，我們想交通部是不是可以來做的更多，所以本席看到美國有這個作法，就提出來，當然也有人會認為會不會系統有偵測錯誤的時候，譬如它可能偵測酒精有錯誤，當然這個部分要交通部來做評估，我有聽到部長剛剛有提到我們正在考慮也要來做，對不對？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員再講清楚一點，現在他如果是酒駕，後來再重新考駕照的時候，我們是規定要放酒精鎖……"],["羅委員美玲：對，這個我也知道，第三十五條裡面有。"],["王部長國材：但是如果要普遍，變成一般車子的配備，這個需要研究，這個要研究，但是酒精鎖的東西在臺灣已經有了。"],["羅委員美玲：所以剛剛部長講的是酒精鎖的部分……"],["王部長國材：對、對。"],["羅委員美玲：並不是這個系統，其實道交條例第三十五條裡面就有提到這個部分。所以美國這個偵測酒精的系統是不是可以來研究看看？當然我們也擔心會不會有誤判的狀況，這個部分你們有想法嗎？還是從來都沒有研究過？"],["王部長國材：不是，美國的跟我們的應該是一樣，酒精鎖是一個儀器，這是一個儀器，當你呼吸如果有酒精的時候，你是打不開的……"],["羅委員美玲：它是類似的系統嗎？"],["王部長國材：類似啊！就是類似。"],["羅委員美玲：酒精鎖和這個系統其實是類似的系統，是不是？"],["王部長國材：應該是一樣的，只是我們現在用在這種有酒駕紀錄要重新考駕照的。"],["羅委員美玲：對，你們是事後，譬如他曾經有過紀錄，如果要重新再申請駕照的時候，才會有……"],["王部長國材：對、對、對。"],["羅委員美玲：可是美國看起來並不是，它是未來新車必須的配備……"],["王部長國材：對，這個在研究。"],["羅委員美玲：和我們做的方式不一樣，我們是你之前曾經有過酒駕，要再重新申請駕照的時候，才要上酒精鎖，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對，這個還沒有，我們現在就是部分的實施。"],["羅委員美玲：好，這個就是請交通部來做一個研究。","再來，部長，我要跟您探討的就是有關於我們旅遊諮詢多國語言服務的部分，昨天我有接待了一些來自於東南亞的朋友，他們對於我們的旅遊服務，譬如清真認證的餐廳，還有所謂的祈禱室，還有在旅館裡面有朝向麥加的貼紙那個部分，覺得非常的肯定，因為東南亞有很多穆斯林，譬如馬來西亞、印尼有很多的穆斯林，他們對臺灣這個部分覺得非常的棒，比起日本、韓國，我們真的是比較貼心；可是對於這個多國語言諮詢的部分，他們覺得臺灣可以再做加強，譬如我們的線上旅遊諮詢服務，我們的多國語言比起日本來講的話，其實語種一般上來講是不足的，日本有所謂7種語言的服務，有英語、中文、韓文、泰文、越南文、法文及日文，它有東南亞語，可是我們臺灣，尤其是隸屬於我們旅遊局的這個部分，他們覺得我們的語種真的是比較少。","再來，我們到頁面來看，譬如我們到向山旅遊中心的頁面來看的話，「服務設施」裡面全部都是中文，可是你看日本的部分，進去的介面是英文，你可以看到，一般上遊客對於英文可能還是比較能夠瞭解，可是中文可能很多人看不懂，它裡面有寫English、Chinese、Korean，他都可以看得懂，他是屬於哪一國，他可以點進去，還有其他的語言，可是我們進去我們這個向山旅客中心的「服務設施」裡面，全部都是中文，其中有寫一個「外語服務」，這個外籍人士也要看得懂「外語服務」這四個字的中文才能夠點進去，不是嗎？"],["王部長國材：是、是、是。"],["羅委員美玲：是啊！你有一個「外語服務」，可是外籍人士根本不知道「外語服務」這四個字代表什麼意思耶！"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["羅委員美玲：部長，你瞭解我的意思嗎？"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["羅委員美玲：我們多國語言的這個部分好像做得不是很徹底，你應該介面上面就是英文，不是嗎？"],["王部長國材：是，我……"],["羅委員美玲：多國語言的部分，可能要請部長這邊跟我們的相關單位來提醒一下，我們還是必須要製造一個友善的旅遊環境，不是嗎？"],["王部長國材：這個沒問題，我覺得我們現在發展觀光，國際觀光客很多元，包括語言不夠或是剛才談到的進去要點按鍵都不知道怎麼點……"],["羅委員美玲：對啊！他們看不懂啊！"],["王部長國材：這個部分很謝謝委員的指教，我們一般會用自己的想法去點這個，但是他們看不懂，瞭解、瞭解。"],["羅委員美玲：對，就是沒有站在外國旅客的角度來看……"],["王部長國材：對、對、對。"],["羅委員美玲：就說有啊！我有「外語服務」啊！問題是你還必須知道「外語服務」這四個字是什麼意思……"],["王部長國材：瞭解、瞭解、瞭解。"],["羅委員美玲：這個部分可能就是……"],["王部長國材：這個我們趕快來改善。"],["羅委員美玲：對、對、對，因為這是外國朋友在反映的一些問題，他說臺灣對穆斯林的這個部分還蠻友善的，就是東南亞很多穆斯林朋友，可是他們真的看不懂一些中文，他說他進去點，點出來竟然是這個樣子，他怎麼知道哪個是他需要的服務。"],["王部長國材：好，我們馬上來改善。"],["羅委員美玲：再來，我們來看看臺灣和日本外語服務語種的部分，像臺灣，有3個以上語種的，我們就只有1個，我們觀光局所轄的中心裡面，有3個語種的旅遊服務中心只有1個，1到2個的有56個，甚至有5個是沒有外語服務的，可是我們看日本，日本有3個語種以上的旅遊服務中心有50個，1到2個語種的其實有超過1,000個；我們再來看看各旅遊中心提供外語服務的語言分類有什麼，我們62個服務中心大部分都是提供英語的服務，再來就是日文，韓語只有1個地方有提供，西班牙語也只有其中1個服務中心有提供，有5個完全都沒有提供，所以在語種方面，我們真的是要請觀光局來做加強。"],["王部長國材：好，我請他們一併來檢討。"],["羅委員美玲：以上，謝謝。謝謝部長。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝部長。剛剛羅召委提的這個是很重要的，因為觀光局已經升格為觀光署，可是我們很多英文的網站，說實在，我看了都覺得滿丟臉的，會變成「I can make it（我罐頭做他）」那種機械式的翻譯，實在是不太好看，一定要費心一下，好不好？謝謝。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員李德維、陳琬惠、林文瑞、陳玉珍、伍麗華、王美惠所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148815","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148815","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307dc5bc5c064b6888420bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a032228cd4c97fd0558ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"11:12:59 - 11:19:16","影片長度":"00:06:17","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":377,"end_time":"2023-11-30T11:19:16+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T11:12:59+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":400,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（11時12分）謝謝召委，是不是請內政部長還有警政署長？"],["主席：林部長還有黃署長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，港務警察在馬祖有一個分隊，現在沒房子住也沒有駐地。我記得我當縣長的時候，他們就變成孤兒了，我撥了一個小小間的辦公室給他們用，到現在一直還沒有妥善的解決。那我想了一個方法，因為港務警察屬於航港，對不對？所以我把航港局局長找來了，航港裡面的駐地安全很重要，但是內政部警政署可能整個受限於財政的困難，沒有編這個預算，今天正好交通部王部長也來了，兩位部長在這邊，你們握個手把問題解決。"],["林部長右昌：這要謝謝委員和航港局。"],["陳委員雪生：不是，現在我跟航港局講，警察是保護整個港灣的安全，但是這些警察很可憐，他們沒有駐地，只有一個小辦公室，那好不容易現在在港務處大樓撥了一小間給他們，但住宿的問題卻無法解決，所以我現在拜託航港局在航港作業金裡面編了一些錢，這些錢也不少，也要幾千萬，港務警察目前是8個人，聽說要擴充到20個人，署長，有沒有這回事？"],["黃署長明昭：確實我們有討論，因為業務量也在增加，勢必要增加人。"],["陳委員雪生：我原來也不認識署長，後來認識以後，我發現他非常謙和，跟他討論的問題他非常重視，我也表示感佩。我原來也在臺北市中山分局服務過14年，士林分局也待過4年多，我對警察的特性非常瞭解，那我就拜託署長還有部長，這一方面能夠跟交通部王部長，王部長，你不要假裝沒聽到嘛，請你上來，好不好？我要問你要不要答應這件事情。我跟你講，航港局大概內部有開過會了，今天沒有來嘛。你說什麼？"],["主席：莊瑞雄委員說你要求他們要加倍、加倍的承諾……"],["莊委員瑞雄：聽到了沒有？"],["陳委員雪生：你講什麼？"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣講，你開心，我給你按讚。"],["陳委員雪生：我們以前沒有警察之友會，現在我們縣長、議長都在發動警察之友會，可能因為我的關係啦，因為我以前在警察單位待過。部長，這個問題你能夠答應內政部嗎？"],["王部長國材：我支持，我覺得他也是我們的一部分。"],["陳委員雪生：王部長人非常好，他在交通委員會他自己不來開會，請假，跑到內政委員會，我覺得很好笑。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這是對內政委員會的尊重，什麼好笑？"],["主席：沒有我們警察支持，交通安全……"],["陳委員雪生：王部長，你請回，我想你也答應了嘛。那內政部長是不是跟王部長感謝一下？你一毛錢都不要出欸！還有那個楊源明校長。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝，這要謝謝委員，也要謝謝王部長。"],["陳委員雪生：楊源明現在是校長還是署長？"],["楊校長源明：校長。"],["陳委員雪生：我跟各位報告，楊源明校長，我在中山分局當會計主任的時候，他是刑事組組長，他接侯友宜，侯友宜也是我的老同事，楊源明校長為人非常的好，我也拜託內政委會召委，預算不要去動，幫忙……"],["主席：你再幫忙喊一下，因為今天早上部長才答應要另外再幫他籌將近1億。"],["陳委員雪生：我們楊源明校長很有作為，我今天正好有這個機會看到我們老同事在這邊，非常高興。楊校長，你請回。"],["楊校長源明：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：下次有請客吃飯要找我，不要忘了我啊！我好久沒有跟他碰面了，大家各奔前程，大概都有滿好的結果。部長，謝謝啦！","還有就是殯葬業務是你們管轄的範圍。"],["林部長右昌：對，殯葬業務也是內政部。"],["陳委員雪生：我們南竿民眾公墓的殯葬業務已經人滿為患了，沒地方埋啊，縣政府可能會有公文來。"],["林部長右昌：公文來我來瞭解一下。"],["陳委員雪生：我想你當過地方父母官，當過基隆市市長，表現也非常好，我也去拜訪過你幾次，我們在很多公務場合也碰到面，拜託您對地方的事務多加協助，好不好？"],["林部長右昌：我想地方的事我們都會全力來支持。"],["陳委員雪生：有機會歡迎部長也蒞臨馬祖，好不好？"],["林部長右昌：馬祖很熟，我之前當市長的時候也很多次到馬祖去交流。"],["陳委員雪生：基隆跟馬祖以前等於是姐妹縣市，我們兩邊的相處也非常好，我跟部長也有很好的交情，有關那邊的殯葬業務拜託你。"],["林部長右昌：我來瞭解。"],["陳委員雪生：還有就是社會住宅。"],["林部長右昌：社會住宅現在已經有一處了。"],["陳委員雪生：因為我想這是蔡總統的政見，那國防部那邊現在還有一些問題，我也協助內政部營建署跟他們積極的協調，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：沒有，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員來這邊替我們警察爭取福利。","接下來請羅美玲召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148814","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148814","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307ddb7264b9aa5e41940bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03229b0160faa0cdae515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:04:56 - 11:12:43","影片長度":"00:07:47","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":467,"end_time":"2023-11-30T11:12:43+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T11:04:56+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":375,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時4分）謝謝主席，有請內政部長跟交通部長，謝謝。"],["主席：兩位部長請。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝，部長。兩位部長好，我想就快速跟部長討論關於通學步道，在今年我們看一下校園周邊暨行車安全道路改善計畫，辦公室跟你們調資料，從5月底的執行率沒有過半，到7月底達到了86%，到現在為止就我們的認知看這個資料，款項已經全數分配完畢，這個部分我要再次感謝兩位部長在這件事情上，我相信應該是非常地積極協助地方政府盤點通學步道，協助學校完善道路。但是我也很想問，在今年的預算之後，全臺灣三千多所國中小應該還沒有機會完全完成通學道路的改善，不知道這個部分兩位部長在後續的規劃上有沒有什麼想法？"],["林部長右昌：我想這有幾個部分，第一個是在我們內政部提升道路品質計畫裡面，從106年的時候開始補助，總計有2,410案，中央的補助金額是高達四百四十九億多元，其中已經完成的是1,807案，目前正在執行中的是603案，這是第一部分。第二部分是校園周邊暨行車安全道路改善計畫，就剛剛委員特別提到的，我們是總計補助349案，已經核配的金額是49.4億，未來就是4年400億，我們會繼續來做相關的改善，但並不一定是剛剛委員講的三千多所學校每一所學校都有必要，地方會做評估跟提案，我們也會進行相關的審議。"],["陳委員培瑜：剛剛部長的回答我覺得大家應該聽了都會很放心，怎麼說？因為剛剛部長已經講到會有因地制宜的問題，確實我們在都會地區在意的是通學步道，可是我們也認識非常多偏鄉的校長跟老師，他們有跟我提到關於通學的車子的問題或是其他問題，這個問題也許後續再跟部長討論，我們今天還是想要讓部長看一下，其實就在立法院附近的這所學校，我們可以看到學生上學道路上停滿了機車，其實我們自己都很好奇像這樣子的學校，或者是像後面這一張，這是在我住家附近的一所學校，他們的狀況就是在學生出來的大門這邊，其實孩子們必須要走到兩端到斑馬線過馬路，甚且在這個學校前面的便利商店是孩子們下課最常去的地方，可是它前面就沒有紅綠燈，我當然知道這不是內政部跟交通部，其實必須要透過地方政府去申請或者是執行相關的調整，可是有沒有可能相關的地方政府或者是縣市議員，或者在執行這個業務的學校老師或是家長，他們有沒有可能搞不清楚這個狀況是可以改善，而不要讓小孩在放學的時候……例如說我的小孩就唸這所學校，我真的就親眼看過有小孩就這樣衝過馬路差點被車撞到，還好是那個小孩真的身手非常矯健，他就自己一個翻空他就翻過去了。我想要講的就是剛剛跟部長說，我們當然知道有非常非常多預算跟計畫在進行，可是我還是想要再次拜託兩位部長把相關的通學步道的事情，還有臨停的空間，因為臨停的空間我覺得也是非常多家長會在意的事情，尤其現在因為很多家長可能就上班順便把小孩送去學校，可是這個臨停空間的解決我覺得也是要拜託兩位部長持續協助地方政府做相關的盤點好嗎？"],["林部長右昌：委員報告一下，這個其實不應該有問題，因為剛剛跟你報告其實經費上面是很充足，而且未來還有4年400億的經費，可能就是必須要地方政府積極提案。在改善上面，現在已經都有很多很好的案例或者是改善的方式，包括校門口的退縮或者圍牆的退縮等等，它可以把原本不足的空間讓出來，讓整個通學、通行的環境，還有包括臨時接送上下學的空間都可以出來，基本上在規劃跟設計的層面，經費的部分也沒有問題，所以我們會再跟地方政府讓他們積極地提案，其實我們已經宣導很久，我相信地方政府應該也都充分了解。"],["陳委員培瑜：就是鼓勵他們積極提案這件事情，我覺得內政部跟交通部一定有自己的態度跟立場，只是在這個部分，我覺得可以讓更多更多家長知道內政部跟交通部在這件事情上是非常非常積極的。"],["林部長右昌：是，我之前還甚至直接寫信給縣市長，讓縣市長直接掌握狀況，後來提案的反應都非常好，如果委員有個案的部分也歡迎可以提出來。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們不談個案，但是我想就是剛剛部長也非常有誠意的說，其實連您都自己寫信給地方縣市政府，那這件事情我們大家就持續彼此追蹤跟幫忙。可是可能還會有跨部會的問題，一旦牽扯到跨部會，像這個電線桿的事情，我相信兩位部長應該都非常清楚，繼續會有跨部會的事情，之後也是要持續拜託內政部跟交通部在跨部會的整合上需要溝通跟討論的，再協助地方政府。"],["林部長右昌：我跟委員報告，其實這不應該有問題，這都是我們在做整體規劃的時候一再強調的，五大管線──電線桿、號誌包括電信箱等等都要一併規劃跟處理，甚至包括收納或者是地下化，所以理論上現在不應該還會出現這種狀況。現在大概都是整體環境，而且希望不只是在學校的周邊，甚至可以進一步延伸到比如路口，整體一個比較大的尺度跟範圍。所以我到地方視察的時候一直強調經費是充足的，希望地方積極完整規劃和提案。"],["陳委員培瑜：因為我們看內政部相關資料，交通部也是，就是預算充足，而且大家有心要做這件事情，如何讓地方政府也更積極的配合，這個部分就要拜託內政部跟交通部。","最後我想要討論另外一個事情，就是關於人權工作小組，我們看到未成立人權工作小組的名單上交通部是被放右邊這邊，我們想要問一下部長，為什麼交通部內部沒有成立人權工作小組？會不會是您的幕僚在幫您評估人權工作小組的工作內容可能跟您目前在推動的業務無關？"],["王部長國材：我的確從來沒有聽幕僚跟我說要成立這一個小組。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["王部長國材：其他如性平都有做，但是我不知道在交通部成立人權工作小組主要是要做什麼，我會再瞭解一下。"],["陳委員培瑜：那這個部分也許就請您的幕僚再跟您說，我們看到會不會是交通部的同仁可能幫您考量，認為交通部無障礙交通環境推動小組就是所謂人權工作小組，可是事實上在人權工作小組相關作業指引裡面，其實還有很多跟交通事項有關，這部分因為我的時間已經到了，我們之後也會再跟交通部積極討論，如何在交通相關事務上成立人權工作小組，把我們在意的人權價值落實在各個部會的行政當中。"],["王部長國材：是，跟委員報告，就是無障礙跟性平這部分在我們的……"],["陳委員培瑜：是有的，沒錯。"],["王部長國材：都有，我不知道是不是用這個來談所謂人權的……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，因為時間有限……"],["王部長國材：我先瞭解一下。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝兩位部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝，因為人權很重要，用路人的人權很重要。","劉世芳委員、劉世芳委員、劉世芳委員不在。","接下來請我們交通委員會重量級的召委陳雪生委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148813","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148813","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307d539c5c8d54938c8c0bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03223b12e6e223e8e7575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳椒華","委員發言時間":"10:50:07 - 11:04:35","影片長度":"00:14:28","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":868,"end_time":"2023-11-30T11:04:35+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T10:50:07+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":311,"blocks":[["陳委員椒華：（10時50分）謝謝主席，我們請兩位部長。"],["主席：林部長、王部長請。"],["陳委員椒華：我先請教王部長，先前在宜蘭新澳隧道發生車輛追撞嚴重事故，導致1死11輕重傷，後來網路上有人翻出砂石車駕駛所屬公司遭開18張罰單的紀錄，也代表著這樣的駕駛行為早就成為公路上嚴重的未爆彈。請問部長，針對此種累犯駕駛該如何輔導及要求？另外，運輸公司對其駕駛的監督責任如何被納入？"],["王部長國材：我們會有評鑑制度，的確這一家公司它是很多車輛，然後評鑑的結果不是那麼差，但是對於這個駕駛，當然處罰條例該怎麼處罰就要處罰，然後如果在他的駕駛很多人都犯錯，這在我們評鑑裡面，會按照公路法來對公司加以懲處。"],["陳委員椒華：部長，在交通委員會我也質詢過，就是我們針對大型車駕駛的輔導，我剛剛提到要輔導，但是部長，交通部的思維好像還是停留在怎麼去管理、怎麼去處罰，但是因為現在我們感受不到我們的駕駛在執勤的時候有那種幸福的感覺的時候，就是會容易出狀況，如果我們不重視，這個情況會越來越嚴重，所以還是要請部長能夠去思考，如何讓我們的駕駛感受到幸福、快樂，然後在工作的時候，能夠反應在態度上面，這樣就可以減少事故。不然交通部如果你的思維還是停留在怎麼管理面、處罰面，這個還是會出問題，而且不會改善。","另外有關延緩記點，我們看到暫緩記點好像是交通部拿來解決眼前的爭議而已，行人地獄這樣的問題還是會持續上演。整個人本交通在談的是，處理到整個用路人的權益，今天如果只是犧牲單一用路族群，來犧牲其他用路人的權益，沒有跟相關路權及行人團體進行討論，這樣的問題還是很嚴重，所以面對計程車的記點爭議，你們要怎麼來通盤檢討，還有可以提出比較具體的處理方式呢？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，事實上這個6月30日的新制當然在交通安全的改善很有成效，的確當地方的臨停措施還沒做好以前，也造成很多包括計程車業者他們怕……"],["陳委員椒華：所以配套還沒做好嗎？交通部還沒準備好？"],["王部長國材：不是沒準備好，這個的確我們當時包括委員也提了很多修正，當時的氛圍我們就覺得應該這樣做，但是現在實施有這樣子的狀況，我們現在大概……"],["陳委員椒華：先暫停檢討一下這樣嗎？"],["王部長國材：就是罰鍰照罰，但是暫停記點，因為影響他的生計，目前……"],["陳委員椒華：好，部長，什麼時候可以能夠開始又恢復執行呢？"],["王部長國材：現在這樣，地方政府準備好了，當然我們現在也建議給他一個時間點，就是3個月內優先路段先做，明年6月全線都做完，那這個部分……"],["陳委員椒華：到明年6月？"],["王部長國材：明年6月就會……因為他們幅員很大，那我們去輔導，也包括相關經費的支持，我們一起來把真正好的臨停環境創造出來。"],["陳委員椒華：好，這個問題的解決的確是需要靠部長，還有整個交通部的智慧，怎麼來解決這些問題。","再來請問林部長，現在有關人行道的部分，本席辦公室也接到民眾陳情，舉發機車違停人行道，在臺北市處理就是不予舉發，因為陳情人沒有檢附禁止騎樓人行道停車的牌面，請問現在的制度及各縣市自治條例的差異，民眾在舉發人行道車輛違停，還要先看看附近有沒有禁止騎樓人行道停車的牌面，如果沒有拍到這種牌面的話，警察就不會處理，警察局就不會處理了嗎？目前各縣市是不是都會有這樣的情況？那我們怎麼來處理人行道違停的舉發，因為人行道如果違停也會造成民眾沒有辦法走，就會走到車道上面造成危險，所以內政部怎麼來看待這個事情？"],["林部長右昌：這個……"],["陳委員椒華：還是請警政署長？"],["林部長右昌：這個其實是臺北市的自治條例。"],["陳委員椒華：各縣市是怎麼來處理？是不是都需要有拍到禁止騎樓人行道停車牌面才會執行？"],["林部長右昌：其他縣市應該是沒有。"],["陳委員椒華：那臺北市可以這樣做嗎？你要舉發，一定要拍到這樣子的牌面，這樣適當嗎？"],["林部長右昌：這是臺北市的自治條例，他們透過市議會的立法程序。"],["陳委員椒華：所以中央不會去……中央就同意嗎？地方的自治條例中央就沒有意見嗎？是這樣嗎？"],["林部長右昌：不是，如果是屬於其自治的範圍裡面，地方政府的確是可以透過法制的程序。"],["陳委員椒華：是這樣嗎？部長。"],["林部長右昌：它如果沒有違反中央法令的話，地方是可以訂自治條例。"],["陳委員椒華：沒有違反嗎？"],["王部長國材：因為騎樓的管理在自治條例裡面，比如說，可以停機車、停什麼，這個是他們的權責……"],["陳委員椒華：因為中央沒有訂，所以地方就沒有違反，是不是這個樣子？"],["王部長國材：沒有，就是說有些……"],["陳委員椒華：中央該不該訂？"],["王部長國材：有些彈性是留給地方。"],["陳委員椒華：所以我們一直在談交通安全基本法是不是要把這個訂清楚，包括中央，包括內政部要去重視這個問題，現在內政部因為沒有訂，所以地方自治條例就沒有辦法去反對，內政部這邊要怎麼處理？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，騎樓的停車的確需要有一些因地制宜的作為。"],["陳委員椒華：那人行道呢？人行道就是包括交通部、內政部應該都有管理，你們要不要訂定相關的規定？因為這個問題跟行人地獄的問題是相關的。"],["王部長國材：應該是騎樓吧！我還沒看過可以允許人行道停車，我還沒有看過這一個，應該是騎樓的部分，騎樓是人行道的一部分。"],["陳委員椒華：所以人行道本來就不能停車，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳委員椒華：那人行道不能停車，為什麼在禁止騎樓人行道停車，我們舉發了卻被地方的自治條例否決掉，這個部分是內政部的主責，你怎麼可以同意這樣子的自治條例呢？"],["王部長國材：的確地方有一些對於騎樓的權宜措施，那我知道有的地方是正面表列，就是公布這裡可以停，有的是這裡不能停，它看起來是不能停……"],["陳委員椒華：今天這個機會就是內政部、交通部兩位部長，因為還是要知道沒有通行無阻的人行道，我們先不講騎樓，其實是會影響交通安全，也會影響人本交通，還有觀光，都是會連帶受到影響，所以我要請教內政部警政署，剛剛提到人行道的舉發違規，未來怎麼來落實行人優先交通安全綱領？"],["黃署長明昭：配合行人優先的政策，當然警政部門對妨害行人安全的違規四大項目會加強來稽查、來取締，以維安全。有一些比較便民的部分，沒有嚴重妨害人車通行的，像包括在騎樓地停車，在符合我們勸導的部分，我們都會採取勸導的作為。"],["陳委員椒華：請教警政署長，剛剛提到像在人行道違規的舉發，警政署跟地方警察局會同意一定要拍到「禁止」才會去處罰嗎？"],["黃署長明昭：像民眾檢舉的我們一定要要求他要附照片或影像，影像、照片就要有足以妨礙人車通行的部分，能顯示出來才會告發，臺北市的自治條例也就是根據那個精神來訂定他們的自治條例。"],["陳委員椒華：那各縣市如果舉發沒有……因為根本沒有立啊！它如果沒有全面去設置，而且這個設置其實也是妨礙交通或者是妨礙觀瞻嘛！對不對？如果我們廣為設置，這個自治條例的確是有一些爭議，所以在這裡請內政部要檢討可以嗎？"],["黃署長明昭：我們再研議看看。"],["陳委員椒華：再來就是科技執法的部分，近年來各地方政府為了加強交通管理的績效，不少路段實施科技執法，審計部近日也調查全國28個連續3年易肇事路段中，有7處是科技執法設備與當地的肇事主因不同，要求交通部督促改善。為了協助警察取締違規行為，交通部從2019年有補助地方政府購置這些科技執法的設備，但是部長，對於科技執法設置的補助，交通部到底有沒有督促地方政府針對肇事熱點或者是肇事主因，還有對於地方政府規劃設置不適當的科技執法設備，交通部有沒有縮減或取消補助金的追回機制？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，交通部補助是少數，現在的經費很多都是在警政署這一邊，的確肇事熱點跟違規熱點有時候不大一樣，所以我想說他們有他們的評估，比如說雖然沒有肇事但是違規很多的，他們也可以用科技執法的設備。"],["陳委員椒華：本席建議交通部要做一個調查好嗎？"],["王部長國材：好，我們再了解……"],["陳委員椒華：去評估現在的科技執法跟肇事還有相關檢討，可以嗎？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["陳委員椒華：我們請還是要提交報告。最後我們來請問警政署，道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之二第二項有提到科學儀器屬應經定期檢定合格之法定度量衡器，請問署長，彰化的警方在縣道139線增設抓壓車等危險駕駛行為的科技執法設備，請問這一套設備有沒有通過標檢局的檢測？"],["黃署長明昭：測速設備的話都一定要經過標檢局的檢測。"],["陳委員椒華：我們國會辦公室有問過標檢局，標檢局說這個沒有喔！這個不是度量衡器，不適用度量衡器檢定檢查辦法，所以不需要經過檢定。這一套執法設備是由哪一個單位實施定期的檢定？以未經標檢局檢驗的這些科技執法設備進行執法，在無法確保設備信效度的情況下就是人民受害，我們希望要檢討。"],["黃署長明昭：我了解我們的測速設備是有檢定，那到底是什麼時候檢定……"],["陳委員椒華：署長顯然你剛剛回答表示你對這個還不是很清楚，本席提出來就是希望相關的科技執法還有這些設備是不是符合標準，應該警政署要做一個管控計畫來符合這個標準。"],["黃署長明昭：我想測速執法設備是有檢驗啦！是怎麼檢驗我再資料補充給委員好不好？"],["主席：署長你在回答之前應該諮詢一下交通組，他們已經暫停了，這個有問題了好不好？這個做法是有問題的。"],["陳委員椒華：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","我們執法不管工具或者是法律規章都要非常明確，要依法行政，所以不管是在執行任何法令上面都應該做到這一點。","接下來請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148812","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148812","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307deac69c3c94a0e6040bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03225ab69b334a180b4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:37:34 - 10:49:46","影片長度":"00:12:12","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":732,"end_time":"2023-11-30T10:49:46+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T10:37:34+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":276,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時37分）謝謝辛苦的主席，有請我的好朋友──交通部王部長，還有國土署，國土署今天是誰來列席？"],["王部長國材：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，我有幾個問題來請教啦，今天公路總局的局長有來……"],["王部長國材：有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我先就教二位，各位有沒有在我們臺灣的各個角落，部長曾經騎過摩托車嗎？有吧？"],["王部長國材：有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：都有吧，應該大家都有騎過啦！尤其是下雨天大家都會遇到啦。在臺灣幾乎家家戶戶都有機車，根據統計，臺灣登記的機動車輛差不多有超過2,300多萬部，其中機車的部分占了1,400多萬部，有1,452萬輛，有62%都是機車啦，這樣一個交通代步工具，其實很多市區的道路設計對整個機車族來說都不太友善啦，我等一下讓部長來看一看。","今天本席想聚焦在整個道路標線的防滑係數問題，我們國土署也在這裡，標線的性能優劣其實對道路使用者及對交通安全都有直接的相關性，其中最為重要的兩項之一就是提升道路標線的抗滑性能，讓我們騎機車的人，因為騎機車的畢竟有那麼多人嘛，要怎樣提升它的安全，使其有足夠的摩擦力，讓騎士能夠安全平穩的行駛。另外一項就是確保道路標線反光性的問題，讓所有車輛的駕駛人可以在夜間環境背景之下依靠車燈照明跟標線反光的搭配來引導整個道路範圍跟行駛方向。","我接到很多機車族的陳情啦，大家來反映的就是說，我們國家的路面道路標線很滑，只要輪胎壓到了標線就很容易滑倒，這個有很多數據可作為佐證，我看到交通部跟警政署的統計顯示，從107年起到111年，107年機車自摔的案件就有2萬6,000件，到了111年已經飆升到3萬多件了，雖然會造成自摔的原因有很多，但是你不得不承認這也是影響的一個重要因素之一。","對於整個道路標線防滑的部分，我想從二個層面來做解析，第一個是路面標線的防滑係數，第二個是如何把道路的標線畫在柏油路上，怎麼去畫？我看到國土署已經發文將標線施工的規範做修正，就是把道路標線的抗滑係數提高，市區的道路你們說現在要提到65BPN，非市區的道路也建議提升到50BPN。你怎麼樣去畫這個標線，比起將防滑係數提高，如果要根本性的解決標線很滑的問題，材質跟畫法是非常重要的考量點。部長，我們現在臺灣的作法就是用熱拌漆啦，這個就好像是貼膠布一樣，就把它貼在路上，所以路面會凸起一塊，甚至還有掉漆的現況。我們去看其他的國家，以隔壁的日本來看，他們採取的是噴射式的施作方法，當然錢會比較多啦，但確實有跟地面做貼合來達到反光跟防滑的一個效用。臺灣的機車這麼多，再加上我們又常常會下雨，所以路面的標線是防滑的重中之重啊，要確保民眾用路的安全，所以我在這邊，包括我們營建署、國土署，這個我也曾經要求過，就是上次說的車道瘦身的建議，你現在的政策工具，在道路品質提升跟審查會議當中，針對整個道路標線的施作方法，你們有沒有可能直接去強制要求？"],["王部長國材：是，我先回答。交通部公路系統的部分，過去是45BPN，現在大概都是55以上，當然往上提就是剛才委員所談到的65BPN，這是第一個。我想在機車族摔倒的部分，有些是路不平或是人孔蓋突出，現在我們的工法裡面也都是把它下降，跟路面幾乎都是平的。所以大概有幾項，就是路面的人孔蓋，還有我們畫標線的防滑係數，這些部分都要注意。我想現在我們的公路系統大概都是朝這方面在提升。"],["莊委員瑞雄：研議一下，因為畢竟騎機車的人真的那麼多，國土署這邊請回。","我繼續請問交通部，根據道路交通標誌號誌設置規則，我們畫槽化線的目的，是用來引導車輛駕駛人依據指示的路線行駛，畫設在交叉路口還有立體交叉的匝道口跟其他特殊的地點，這個都涉及到整個交通的執法問題。這部分我就不叫警政署上來了，但是我要請教部長的就是，你看我們現行的槽化線有三種，有單實線的或是Y線型的，還有斜紋的這三種，按照法規的規定，現有的槽化線都禁止跨越跟停等，我的車有時候從槽化線上跨過，被照到之後我接罰單就接不完了，可是隨著我們道路設計得越來越完善，比如說那種偏心式左轉的車道，還有很多路段格外需要槽化線來引導車輛的行駛，也因為如此而發生過很多特殊的案例，我在此處要特別來跟部長分享兩個案例，你看這兩張圖。這個在雲林的道路上面，為了提醒駕駛前面是左轉車道，所以你在內側車道上畫了槽化線，這就很怪，你看這個圖，根據規定，槽化線是不能跨越的，所以要左轉的車要先切到直行車道，再轉到左車道，這個好怪，所以引起批評，公路局到最後就把它撤掉了，對不對？"],["王部長國材：撤掉了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：就是你們畫標線的邏輯很奇怪，你知不知道，你劃下去之後我不能跨越，我跨越之後會被你們開罰單、被你們罰錢之後，人家咒罵你們，你們就去把它塗銷掉，所以你們在畫標線的時候真的要特別小心。另外第二個你看，發生在嘉義市的，這個更好玩，你看，機車兩段式左轉前先有一個槽化線，你們就在製造陷阱嘛！","你們這是在製造陷阱嘛，要去停等區的駕駛怎麼可能不去壓到那個線，這個我很想要問你們警政署的黃明昭署長耶。你不用上台沒關係，就請你聽一聽。像這種標線，部長跟局長在這裡，你們的標線畫一畫之後，我們駕駛人有夠倒楣，壓到線之後被你們開罰單，開一開之後你們現在還跟人家說這個沒道理，要把它給撤除掉，這都民怨啦！部長。"],["王部長國材：我知道。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個真的都會引發民怨，這個真的要特別去注意啦！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：而且你看，現在法規上的盲點就是，我們法規上禁止跨越或是停等，否則的話一定會收到罰單，但是槽化線的作用是為了引導車輛的行駛，當然是屬於一個必要的標線，你把它塗銷又有安全上的疑慮，這要怎麼平衡？來，我想請教你，這要怎麼平衡？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，事實上在漸變段應該是長距離的漸變，像剛剛左邊這一個是到那邊以後才讓他換方向……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們就是不要讓他直接就切過去，我怎會不知道，你們要去引導嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，但是它這個引導太短了，它應該是在前面就開始長距離的漸變。最近我有請我們的運研所對地方政府的交通單位做一些訓練，就是在畫這些標線的時候，有的他不知道，他覺得這裡我不要讓駕駛人過，就畫了一個黃線在地上，但是他不知道過來的人為了要避免跨越可能會促使他違規，所以我想這部分我們來對地方政府做一些訓練，這個事情我們來處理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個真的要特別小心。"],["王部長國材：是是是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們做到部長也好，做到局長也好，你們很少有機會自己去開車，一般市民、一般民眾，車自己開、摩托車自己騎，所以他的感受會特別深刻，你這個都是製造陷阱，到最後人家批評之後，我們才去把它弄掉，我認為這個不對。你去看英國，我特別去看了英國的例子，你看他們的槽化線就有區分，有一種是允許穿越，一種是禁止穿越，區分為兩種，用虛線跟實線來做分界，實線的槽化線不可以穿越；虛線的部分就容許駕駛人穿越。我們鄰近的國家日本也是採用這樣的規定，所以他們的槽化線有的是可以穿越的、有的是不能穿越的。我們的規定是全部都不能穿越，穿越之後就開罰單，被民眾咒罵之後又開始把它塗銷，這個邏輯我是覺得我們應該要好好地再去精進一下，可以穿越的，他用白色的實線來包圍整個槽化線；不可以穿越的，他用黃色來包圍，所以本席認為這兩個設計的理念，部長，我要講的是，英國也好，日本也好，他們這樣的設計理念可以同時兼顧引導車輛行駛跟提升交通的效率，最主要也不會讓民眾去觸法，所以我是覺得，部長，今天你既然來了，麻煩帶回去研究一下……"],["王部長國材：好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這不能開玩笑，這真的都會引起民怨，我跟你講，我就收過好幾張罰單了，所以我感受特別深刻。哪有你們把線亂畫一畫，說那個不能過，然後人家跟你們抗議之後，你們就說那個不對，然後就把它塗掉，錢我已經繳了耶！所以一般的民眾都會碰到這個問題。剛好人家英國也這樣做，隔壁的日本也這樣做，這個設計也符合整個交通引導跟交通安全方向的理念，我們有必要再去精進，好不好？部長。"],["王部長國材：好，我們持續精進。我想另外一個就是，我們的標誌標線號誌設置規則有規定，但是有些地方在執行的時候誤用了，誤用它的精神，所以我想這部分我們來跟地方溝通……"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，也要宣導啦！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：精進之後也要宣導，不然搞不好我們現在的警察同仁在執法的時候，他們就認為法律就是這樣規定，好不好？謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，OK。謝謝委員。"],["主席：對，很多警察執法的時候就會面對這些困擾。你被開3張喔？好，所以你不用請我吃飯，謝謝。","接下來請陳椒華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148811","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148811","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307dd23c2426247d26620bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a0322c243b8408b1a723d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃世杰","委員發言時間":"10:11:28 - 10:24:47","影片長度":"00:13:19","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":799,"end_time":"2023-11-30T10:24:47+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T10:11:28+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":234,"blocks":[["黃委員世杰：（10時11分）好，謝謝主席，我們有請王部長還有林部長。"],["主席：好，兩位部長請。"],["王部長國材：委員好。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["黃委員世杰：兩位部長早，我想今天非常難得，交通部王部長跟內政部林部長都來到同一個委員會，顯見大家對於這個專題報告的重視，因為交通安全、交通的執法跟我們的事故處理都是影響人民的日常生活，是非常重要的事情。當然，為了洗刷行人地獄的污名，我們除了修法之外，也做了很多行政的措施。從你們的報告裡面，數字上看起來，在今年尤其是下半年，也確實在減少行人的死傷交通事故，顯然這些事情、這些作為是有成效的，當然我們還要再持續觀察，是不是可以把它……到底做對了什麼事情，我想後續還是要來研究啦！","但是同時這些措施，其實也造成了地方上近來非常多的民怨，因為執法的過程，大家比較不會那麼快的感受到變安全了，但是卻先收到罰單跟記點。所以很多的地方也凸顯了這個問題的複雜度，還有長期以來我們都市的規劃以及我們城鄉的差距，沒有在這些機制裡面被考慮進去。譬如說道路設計，現在都把人行道納進去，可是在城鄉對於人行道的需求其實差異很大，對於大家用路使用的習慣，也有很大的差別。還有對於臨時停車，特別是在夜間停車，我們在地方上遇到非常多的問題，剛才也有很多委員提到，在今年的7、8月的時候，交通部跟內政部，就這個臨時停車的部分有強化，就是說一定要……不管是不是檢舉案件，都要強化勸導跟注重實際妨礙人車通行的規定，但是就夜間停車的使用習慣，我們現在這個問題還是沒有解決。","我是舉這個例子來跟你們講，這個後面牽涉問題非常多，譬如說我們想像的都是以一個都市的情景，所以道路淨空這件事情，好像是24小時隨時都應該要滿足的，可是在我們非都會的地區，有很多其實到夜間，特別是大家用完晚飯7、8點以後，以使用習慣來說，雖然它有畫白線或是怎麼樣，它的路肩可能不夠停車，但是大家都停整排。這個就是過去在建商在蓋房子的時候，它因為這地區、附近過去都是這樣使用習慣，所以它也沒有準備充足的停車位給這個社區、大樓來使用，就說外面都可以停。好，這樣的使用習慣經過20年、15年之後，現在造成問題了，只要這個社區有一個很喜歡在晚上來檢舉的人，他發現自己沒有車位，他就檢舉其他人，檢舉之後大家都被開單，開走了之後，他就有位子可以停了。造成這樣子的民怨，是不是我們可以有一些，譬如說相對應行政的作為可以來因應、來應對？地方上過去都講檢舉達人，現在他們又發明一個名詞叫檢舉魔人，你可以想像地方上的民怨是有這樣的一個狀況。","所以我是要請教，因為這個同時涉及交通部所主管的，關於這個檢舉的範圍、項目跟法規，還有我們警察機關在執法的時候，能不能夠有一些比較彈性的空間？當然我們不能要求警方不依照法令來執行職務、來執法，但是各地使用的習慣、民情，還有實際上對於道路交通安全的急迫性，跟它的使用型態是不一樣的。我要先請教林部長跟黃署長，你們在執法的時候是不是常常遇到這種問題？再來請教王部長，是不是在法規的訂定上，可以比照剛剛講的臨時停車，或者是針對一些比較弱勢的去做更細緻的處理？我們先請署長。"],["黃署長明昭：謝謝委員。警察機關在處理臨時停車，尤其騎樓地的停車問題，真的困擾很多。民眾的檢舉消耗掉我們很大的警力，所以這要根本解決就是夜間開放騎樓地的停車，到底要幾點開始可以開放停車，這可能涉及到法規的修訂。我們也期盼這個能放寬，讓住戶社區的居民方便停車，畢竟我們現在停車位不足，這樣才能根本解決，否則警察機關接受到檢舉，認定確實有違反法規的規定，畢竟還是要開單啦！"],["黃委員世杰：對，因為之前其實也只是解決記點的問題，事實上大家還是一直收到罰單，所以這個問題沒有根本解決。不過署長剛剛只講到那個騎樓地，你要聽清楚我剛剛跟你講的，因為我們是城鄉，城市地區都是騎樓在停摩托車或什麼之類的，但是在鄉下地方，它其實就是鄉間的道路，甚至中間沒有劃分隔線那種，然後到晚上的時候，因為它只需要單邊通行，所以他就會去停，路邊都停滿了。因為他不會停在白線外，白線外空間不夠，所以大家都有錯誤認知，就是白線為什麼不能停？事實上白線是不能占用道路空間的。","這個狀況是不是有可能請交通部這邊來輔導我們地方政府，比照你現在講臨時停車，150公尺到100公尺之間劃10%的黃線。針對這個部分，我們可以重新來檢討，不然現在地方政府都把事情推給中央啊！說中央法令就這樣定啊！道路設計規範就是這樣，所以我一定要這樣照做，我們的標線要怎麼畫都是中央的法令。所以說這個彈性的部分，在城鄉的差距上面，我們認為你們要實際下鄉去瞭解一下，因為聽你們講，其實我覺得你們都在都市裡面。請王部長。"],["王部長國材：是，跟委員報告，執法裡面有很多陣痛期，因為太急促的確有很多的民怨發生。剛才談到的，我們最近包括一些違停先暫停記點，還有包括騎樓暫停記點，這個已經公布了，在我們裁罰細則裡面已經公布了。另外剛才談到騎樓的課題，事實上我們發函給各地方政府，現在零點到6點是可以停在騎樓，目前是這樣，然後如果是鄉下地區，地方政府可以權宜比如說從8點到隔天的幾點，我是覺得的確有城鄉上面因地制宜的一個辦法。我想針對最近一些大家感受到的，包括檢舉這些亂象，事實上我們內部也做了很多的討論，現在是針對裁罰細則第十二條，因為裁罰細則第十二條的規定是不影響交通得不舉發，這個意思是說，剛才談到的這些狀況如果真的不影響交通，甚至剛才有委員談到身障車在停的等等，事實上裁罰細則第十二條的規定是有一些情形如果不影響交通可以不舉發，所以我們現在大概是以這樣一個重點來處理，希望能夠降低這樣的衝擊。但是的確過去這段時間的效果是有出來的，就是7、8、9這3個月的道安死亡人數有下降，但是的確也有受到影響的部分，這個我們這邊會持續來討論與調整。"],["黃委員世杰：剛剛你講的還是回來講騎樓啦，我的意思是說，在比較城市的地方，黃線都可以開放晚上夜間停車，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["黃委員世杰：就鄉下道路的白線，白線是道路邊界線，有沒有可能在法律上容許這樣的情形可以開放夜間停車？因為現在鄉下的使用習慣都是這樣，你說這樣會不會妨礙交通其實也很難講，對不對？占用到道路路面算不算妨礙交通？但是你們開放黃線都可以停車喔，所以這個部分請你們去研議並且跟地方政府好好討論，因為我們有很多個案都面臨到這樣一個情形。"],["王部長國材：主要是這樣，車道邊線旁邊是路肩啦……"],["黃委員世杰：對啊！"],["王部長國材：意思是說如果停在白線就是停在路肩，這個是不好的，但如果旁邊是……"],["黃委員世杰：路肩沒有那麼寬啦，應該是會停在線上或是占用到道路。"],["王部長國材：我瞭解，如果旁邊是這個10公分的所謂路面邊線，這個是可以權宜停車，我想這個部分也是一樣，就是說縱然是這樣，但是對地方政府我們可以來輔導，比如說它應該把適當的路邊停車空間留下來，如果不影響交通的話，事實上在這個標線……"],["黃委員世杰：路沒有那麼大條啦，鄉下的道路沒有……"],["王部長國材：標線也可以做一些調整，我是覺得本身這個畫線到底是幾公分，這個可能可以做一些調整。"],["黃委員世杰：不是畫幾公分的問題啦！"],["王部長國材：因為幾公分是牽涉到是車道邊線跟路面邊線不同的定義啊，您瞭解吧？是。"],["黃委員世杰：好啦，會後我們再好好討論這件事。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["黃委員世杰：最後我還是要請教內政部林部長，過去的營建署、現在的國土署有一些公務預算也好或是前瞻預算也好，是有在補助地方政府來興闢停車場相關的空間，我想要請教的是，你們明年或是未來，這是交通部負責的嗎？我記得營建署也有啊，就是停車場的闢建一方面是都市計畫內要有相關的規劃，另外一方面是在興建相關公共設施的時候，如果有地下停車場的興建計畫，你們也都可以補助嘛，對不對？過去是放在前瞻裡面，未來這個方面有沒有持續的計畫？"],["王部長國材：我們有兩期，第一期是200億，後來又加60億，變成260億，包括桃園也非常多，大概有一、二十個，但是它已經接近尾端了，就是該分配出去的很多都已經分配完了，現在唯一的就是有沒有下一期前瞻停車場的計畫……"],["黃委員世杰：所以你們有前瞻計畫才會有嘛，你們本來的公務預算裡面沒有嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，因為這兩期都是一樣，是在前瞻裡面特別拿260億出來，如果後面有的話，當然我們也是覺得還是可以繼續啦！"],["黃委員世杰：一定要繼續啊，因為我們剛剛講的這個問題，其實根本問題在那邊嘛！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["黃委員世杰：大家為什麼會亂停，因為沒有停車空間嘛！過去蓋住宅也好或是在都市裡面也好，第一個是政府主動的規劃不夠；第二個是我們的建商都把成本外部化，停車問題就由住戶自己解決嘛，沒有內含在自己的社區裡面；第三個是我們現在自用車的成長太快了，以前一戶人家一部車、二部車就很多了，現在五、六部車以上，所有的子女一人一輛，所以這個永遠都不夠，我希望這個政策方向一定要持續，不然我們剛剛講的解決行人地獄所帶來的副作用永遠不會解決，所以請你們對這個部分一定要繼續下去。"],["王部長國材：好，我們可能……"],["黃委員世杰：繼續提出這樣的計畫！"],["王部長國材：是，我們跟行政院來爭取看下一期有沒有這個前瞻停車場的部分……"],["黃委員世杰：你還要多加碼一點，還要多輔導地方政府多蓋一點啦！以上，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時24分）","繼續開會（10時37分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。陳琬惠委員、陳琬惠委員、陳琬惠委員不在。","接下來請莊瑞雄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148810","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148810","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307d278d87fd72f650320bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03227651d8aba7895d035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:00:20 - 10:11:16","影片長度":"00:10:56","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":656,"end_time":"2023-11-30T10:11:16+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T10:00:20+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":188,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時）麻煩請內政部跟交通部。"],["主席：林部長、王部長請。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：部長，其實我們臺灣交通的主責機關非常的多，兩位部長認不認同？就道路的維護、管理等等，是不是很多單位其實都有它的權責，對不對？"],["林部長右昌：交通的主管機關當然是交通部，不過有其他包括道路的工程等等，當然內政部有部分的權責。"],["張委員宏陸：我們國土署其實也有管到啊！對不對？國土署也有它的權責啊！"],["林部長右昌：是，都市計畫內道路的部分。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？王部長，是不是像我說的，其實管理的真的是太多機關了，等於說負責的機關非常破碎，我們現在有沒有這個問題？"],["王部長國材：的確我們現在公路系統是交通部，都市計畫內是國土署，事實上還有農路是農業部，很多……"],["張委員宏陸：還有產業道路。"],["王部長國材：產業是經濟部水利署的，很多。目前因為各自的合作還算順暢，當然如果能整合是最好，但是現在的確分在各個不同的部會，但是整合上還是順暢。比如說我們跟國土署在都市計畫交界的話也都做很多協調，都會一致，斷面會一致。"],["張委員宏陸：是啦！現在其實行之有年了，在工程上、在什麼的話，我覺得都沒有問題；但是在一般的行車管理上，其實我真的覺得有點太破碎。舉個例子好了，我們在地方上比如說要不要劃紅線跟黃線，這個有時候所有的部會要一起來，林部長你當過市長，你應該知道這個問題。"],["林部長右昌：這個主責的機關當然是地方政府的交通單位，不過因為所謂劃線的部分當然也會聽一下其他單位的意見，但是主責還是在地方政府的交通單位。"],["張委員宏陸：要不要劃紅線主責是在地方政府，對不對？但常常要不要劃一個紅線或黃線，地方政府或我們這樣會勘，就要所有的單位都到，所有的單位到的時候，有時候還要在現場再找這個路段到底是誰的、這個路段到底是誰的，其實有時候剛好在交界的部分或什麼的，第一線的同仁有時候會搞不清楚耶！部長，你有沒有遇過這種情況？林部長，你有沒有遇過？你當過市長耶！"],["林部長右昌：我覺得那個還好啦！其實協調一下就好了，在地方上比較多的問題是要不要劃。"],["張委員宏陸：要不要劃當然是有很多的問題，但我覺得其實像我們現在太破碎了，其實有時候會造成很多的困擾。農路、產業道路基本上不存在要不要劃線的問題，對不對？但我為什麼會提出這個問題？我認為道路並不是把路鋪平就好了，我們今天講的重點就是把交通安全列為重要的考量，這才是我們要去做的。所以我在這邊就是說，兩位部長，如果遇到像我剛剛所說的這個，你們有沒有認為在都市裡面，尤其是六都裡面，有沒有需要把它弄一個比較單一的管理？你們有沒有這個想法或你們有沒有認同這個想法？"],["王部長國材：現在他們的整合主要是在他們的道安會報裡面，比如我們工程處的處長，現在分局也會去參加，所以如果牽涉到整合問題，我們就直接在道安會報談。現在要整合成一個單位……因為現在就是工務、交通、都市計畫單位，但是統統在道安會報裡面，而且他們原本的職責已經很多工作了，要把它弄成一個真的是有點困難，但是整合這一個課題很重要。"],["張委員宏陸：好啦！我是點出這個問題，我知道在道安會報有這個，但是其實有的在第一線的行政首長很認真，他就會去處理；如果不認真的或是對這個不瞭解的，遇到問題，光我們是要開路、闢路或什麼，有時候常常也會拖了很久，我相信大家實務上都有遇到這個問題。","再來，兩位部長，我要請教一下，交通安全、行人安全什麼的，這個我們是非常非常的要去做的，我們也都非常認同。不過實際上在第一線我們會遇到一個情況，像現在檢舉達人這樣子，有的人他是有殘障車牌，這個殘障車牌我們要不要給他一些通融的空間？他推著輪椅或他不能走，他總不可能說到好幾百公尺以外，不在他家門口下車，這一點在執法上我不知道我們警政署或交通部這邊有沒有協調過這個問題？"],["王部長國材：是，我跟委員報告，身障者的臨停在我們的裁罰細則第十二條有規範，如果是上下輪椅的話可以不舉發，這部分我們也是有考慮到這樣的狀況。所以縱然他們可能違規，但是不影響車流，然後他是身障朋友的話，我們按照裁罰標準第十二條是可以不舉發。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦！但我們有遇到陳情，就是輪椅走了、車關門了，他沒有拍上下輪椅的，他只拍一瞬間停在路邊的啊！這個也被罰了耶！警政署，這個也被罰了耶！"],["黃署長明昭：如果有這種現象是可以來申復，一般我們都是要有妨礙人車通行、要連續性的，如果這個沒有連續，只有當下的部分，還是可以撤除裁罰。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦！這個當然會造成很多的困擾，我們都認同要給行人安全，但殘障人士我們也是要給他安全，他當然也不可能推著輪椅從很遠的地方來，所以我覺得我們這個部分的執法可能還要再細一點。"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告一下，現在如果是民眾檢舉的話，他舉證不是只憑一張照片就……"],["張委員宏陸：我知道現在改了啦！"],["林部長右昌：對，現在改了，所以這個部分我們已經有改進。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我知道現在改了，但我覺得還是要……因為如果是殘障車牌，我覺得至少要給人家比如說3分鐘或幾分鐘的時間，因為你要知道他要拿輪椅，不是從他一停車，輪椅就擺在那裡了，我覺得這個部分我們可能是不是要再研究一下？行人的安全很重要，我們都認同，但殘障人士的行的安全，我覺得我們也要注重一下。"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，如果有這種情形的話，那個罰單實際上是可以撤除的，沒有問題。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦！但有的人他也無法有證據去撤除，那個輪椅都推走了。"],["林部長右昌：我們還是會就事實來做認定。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得你們做得細一點就好了啦！"],["林部長右昌：好，謝謝。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝，林部長你先請坐。","最後一點時間，王部長，我想再請教一下，我們板橋社後捷運、社後輕軌，這個部長你也很清楚，現在的進度是到哪裡了？"],["王部長國材：我們在新北曾經提出整體路網評估，我們要求它放進去，它放進去了，的確後來在推的時候它是預留了空間，但是沒有把它畫上去。我跟委員報告，我們也經過這些路線的勘查，也包括社後這個支線，事實上我們是覺得可行的，的確現在要不要實際放進去是在新北市政府的態度，交通部是覺得社後地區的發展，的確少一個往外聯的骨幹交通，所以交通部在各個場合裡面，我都支持這樣的一個提案，這是我們的狀況，但是的確新北市政府要不要放進去，我們也持續在跟它溝通。"],["張委員宏陸：反正交通部這邊就是認為要做，錢也有了，什麼都準備好了……"],["王部長國材：是，支持。"],["張委員宏陸：現在就只差新北市一個文而已嘛，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是，看它態度，事實上當時也爭取一些規劃費用給它做，這是我們爭取的，所以是表達我們的態度，希望它放進去，的確它現在真正可行性丟出來的時候是只有留、沒有放，但是我們有跟它建議這個地方……而且社後地區這些居民的需求也非常的大，所以我們希望新北市政府還是考量到民眾的需求，好好的考慮。"],["張委員宏陸：重點是新北市政府也已經留了路線規劃了嘛，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["張委員宏陸：重點是新北市政府這個路線規劃也都留了嘛！"],["王部長國材：它留了可以擴展，對！"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請黃世杰委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金；四、繼續\n審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金─ 在校學生獎\n學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金；五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣\n省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基\n金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案","agenda_id":"1129202_00002"}}},{"id":"148809","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148809","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f69562838e19307df1d4384ce3e8b6350bc5ca0a2a928741c986728e607a03229ec81ceb8b49550d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴品妤","委員發言時間":"09:47:26 - 10:00:07","影片長度":"00:12:41","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：11月29日（星期三）一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分。三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金—新住民發展基金、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金。四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金—在校學生獎學基金、誠園獎學基金、劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金。五、繼續審查內政部函送財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全濟助基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會、財團法人義勇消防人員安全濟助基金會等3家財團法人113年度預算書案。【11月27日、30日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-11"},"date":"2023-11-30","duration":761,"end_time":"2023-11-30T10:00:07+08:00","start_time":"2023-11-30T09:47:26+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":158,"blocks":[["賴委員品妤：（9時47分）謝謝主席，麻煩主席有請交通部王國材王部長。"],["主席：王部長，請。"],["王部長國材：委員好。"],["賴委員品妤：部長好。我想今天的主題是交通執法，今年為了擺脫行人地獄的惡名，我們也修正了道路交通管理處罰條例，不過今天除了行人的路權以外，我有一件事情想要請教部長，本席有注意到這個月，我相信交通部應該也知道這個月有一則交通事故的新聞，那是臺中地方法院11月中的判決，判決說因為過失致死，判了一個救護車司機有期徒刑2個月。這個案件的內容大概是說救護車搭載病患行救護勤務的時候，因為闖越紅燈路口，途中跟1位綠燈通行的酒駕機車騎士發生車禍，最後這位酒駕騎士送醫後仍然傷重不治。我想發生交通死亡的車禍，大家都不樂見，但是藉著這個事故，我也希望可以跟部長來討論一下救護車路權的問題，因為我有注意到，也有去看這份判決書，判決裡面引用了交通部早期的一份行政函釋，這個函釋其實是在民國70年11月18日的函釋，民國70年哦！非常久之前，簡單的說，它裡面有提到任務中之消防車、救護車、警備車，於鳴警鳴器警號及開亮紅色閃光燈執行任務時，在緊急且必要之情況下，原則得排除道路交通安全規則第一百零二條之各項規定，惟因該車輛之行駛方式甚為危險，故行車技術上仍應照本部66年的函釋，特別顧及行人及其他車輛安全。","總之，第一個，交通部在70年有這份函釋，所以在判決書裡面，包含臺中市車輛行車事故鑑定委員會鑑定，還有覆議委員會都有提到認為救護車在駕駛的時候，沒有顧及其他車輛安全，於闖越紅燈時沒有充分注意綠燈的行車動態，是本起判決認為構成事故的原因之一。第二個問題是，這個事件會受到注目，不只是因為這件事情，還有一個很大的問題，現行的法規上，救護車在緊急鳴笛時沒有絕對的路權，所以才會判救護車駕駛需要負責，當然從判決的刑度可以看得出來法官確實有判得比較輕一點，刑度五年以下的條文，只判了兩個月，也易科罰金。","可是我要提醒一件事情，就是在進行緊急救護任務時，當然是分秒必爭，儘速將傷患送到醫院治療當然是當務之急，我相信救護車的駕駛也不會仗著自己是救護車就亂開，造成交通大亂，而是在盡力確認不會造成危險的前提下儘速趕路，所以這次遇上這個狀況可以說是束手無策。所以我想請問王部長，第一個，交通部到底有沒有掌握這起事件？第二個，對於救護車路權的問題，因為我看判決書，其實都是引交通部很早年的函釋，交通部這邊到底有什麼樣的看法？"],["王部長國材：在我們的處罰條例裡面，救護車鳴笛時，所有車輛都要避讓……"],["賴委員品妤：是，確實。"],["王部長國材：包括橫向跟側邊的都要避讓，這個當然是獨立的審判，我不方便去評論，理論上應該是要避讓，但是縱然避讓，救護車還是要注意一些狀況，也不能說故意還是怎麼樣。所以我們在裡面談的部分，救護車來時，橫向、側邊全部都要避讓，這是一個；但是他到底有沒有盡到他自己的義務去注意到前面，也不能因為別人要避讓，就完全不注意而去撞到車子或怎麼樣，因為他很多時候是紅燈的時候在走，所以我想這部分就由他們來談，但是我們的規定就是這樣，就是全部都要避讓。"],["賴委員品妤：我有幾個建議，第一個，這個函釋其實是比較久之前的；第二個，其實大家有討論，在它鳴笛時，雖然你說規定要避讓，但事實上它其實沒有絕對的路權。所以我有幾個建議，第一個，我們可以從道路交通安全規則著手；第二個作法，交通部是不是可能從自己早期的函釋來著手？因為我剛才有特別提到，他引的其實是很早期的函釋，而且目前也有救護車到底是否有最優先路權的問題。因此我建議，也許交通部可以從自己早期的函釋來著手，例如把救護車應顧及其他車輛的內容調整一下，改成「於紅燈時救護車得於確認路況後通行，其他車輛應禮讓救護車」這樣的方向，去讓救護車的路權擺在優先。因為這幾年我們可以看到，如熱門的臺劇火神的眼淚裡面，其實也有演過救護車為了送醫闖紅燈，反而遭撞的情節，為了救人反而駕駛吃上官司，我覺得大家也都不願意看到這樣的狀況。所以在這一題上，我希望交通部可以回去研議救護車優先路權的問題，因為我知道這個當然需要討論，是不是可以先研議，到時候再給本席一份報告，這部分做得到嗎？"],["王部長國材：好，我請我們同仁來研議一下。的確也有這種狀況，就是縱然它鳴笛，旁邊人也可能不知道，我想狀況也滿複雜的，要看現實的狀況。"],["賴委員品妤：對啊！因為像這個過來的是酒駕，他可能也是意識模糊不清的，所以這個部分就是要麻煩交通部。"],["王部長國材：好，這個我們……"],["賴委員品妤：再來，第二個事情，我們要繼續討論本席選區的問題，我之前也有在詢答時跟部長講過，我們汐止區大概在十幾年前鐵路高架化，因為配合汐止區的發展，當時鐵路高架化並沒有想到汐止區的發展會這麼快速，現在變成臺鐵沿線的噪音其實對於周邊的居民來說，困擾是越來越嚴重，目前這件事情，本席除了在交通委員會有就交通部的部分提出主決議以外，也在前幾天即週二（28日）有跟臺鐵局去會勘。目前第一個是，先確定是就五堵站到汐科站路段沿線噪音改善規劃，會在2023年底前招標，委託顧問公司去辦理噪音改善的規劃評估，這個部分要感謝交通部跟臺鐵局。","可是我要提醒一件事情，今天想要再跟部長爭取，有一件美中不足的事情，因為當時我有講到鐵路沿線噪音的問題，後來臺鐵給我的改善規劃評估範圍是從五堵站到汐科站，可是你也知道，鐵路經過我們汐止沿線，不只是五堵站到汐科站的中間，應該是要包含南港到汐科間的臺北地下化出土段至汐科站，還有五堵站到新五堵隧道口，其實這個部分也都經過非常多民宅，因此我建議，也希望要求交通部可以把我講的這個範圍一併納入；也就是說，臺鐵經過汐止全部的沿線都可以納入評估是否要發包的範圍，這部分是不是能夠請部長承諾？因為如果今天就是要去解決臺鐵經過汐止的噪音問題，其實就不應該是以車站到車站間為一個標的，應該是要沿線。"],["王部長國材：非常謝謝委員，事實上委員所爭取的，包括上次去看的汐止國中跟秀峰高中，這應該下個月就會完工了，我想說因為鐵路開發後很多沿線的建築有噪音的問題，有關五堵到新五堵的部分是否納入，我請臺鐵來評估。"],["賴委員品妤：好，沒有問題。"],["王部長國材：同樣在年底，就是他們要開始去看噪音的變化狀況，留給他們時間，我覺得現在也不是只有一段，如果沿線有影響到市民生活，我們本來就必須要付這樣的責任。"],["賴委員品妤：對。因為本來第一階段要完工了，第二階段其實是希望做沿線全線的評估，那就應該真的是經過我們汐止區的全部沿線部分，這個部分就再麻煩交通部。"],["王部長國材：好，我請臺鐵把它納入。"],["賴委員品妤：好。","最後一點時間，我還想跟部長詢問台62線延伸金萬這一案的進度，我們北海岸、萬里、金山，甚至到隔壁的石門、三芝，一直都是北臺灣觀光的重鎮。我想部長也都非常清楚，我們這幾個選區在假日時，平日其實交通的需求也越來越大，假日更是不得了，基本上假日開到那邊就是塞在那邊。所以其實在我上任後就非常積極，希望促成過去已經停擺好一段時間、非常多年的台62線延伸金萬的這件事情可以繼續推動，這個部分我除了定期跟交通部追蹤進度以外，其實也有要求交通部一定要在可行性評估完成之前在地方辦說明會，也就是我簡報上所提到的。今年交通部確實在6月時，在我們的萬里、金山，還有延伸時會經過的基隆，有辦三場說明會，在會中公路總局也有跟鄉親報告相關進度，在會中鄉親也有提供意見的回饋，包含萬里的出口交流道方案應該怎麼去調整，這個部分我也知道，也感謝公總，我知道公總這邊也有在配合做調整；目前的進度是9月初時，公路總局有將可行性評估期末報告報到交通部，我知道9月中的時候交通部有把這個案子退回公路總局修改，在10月13日的時候，公路總局有再次報到交通部。我想請問部長，目前已經11月底了，因為鄉親其實都非常、非常期待這個建設，請問目前進度到哪裡了？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，台62線延伸到萬里、金山，我們都非常支持，不要讓台2線這麼塞，現在他們報告送上來，我剛才問他們，現在是安排跟我報告，因為我不知道這件事，我儘速來聽、儘速讓它審查通過，最晚在今年年底就送行政院。"],["賴委員品妤：好。因為這個案子真的弄了非常久，加上我這一次來處理前，其實也已經延宕了近十年，所以這個部分是不是請部長全力協助？交通部應該全力協助、儘速審理，讓我們金山、萬里的鄉親可以安心。"],["王部長國材：沒問題，我趕快安排簡報，趕快完成交通部的審查，趕快通過。我想這個案子是台62線一個很重要的案子，這部分也謝謝委員的爭取，讓我們來做這樣的研究，我們會用最快速度，12月底前會把可行性送到行政院。"],["賴委員品妤：好，那就照部長說的，拜託年底以前儘速處理。"],["王部長國材：是，沒問題。"],["賴委員品妤：OK，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["王部長國材：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請張宏陸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":538,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-11","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","張宏陸","黃世杰","莊瑞雄","陳椒華","陳培瑜","陳雪生","羅美玲","李德維","陳琬惠","林文瑞","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2023-11-30"],"gazette_id":"1129202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、交通部部長、內政部警政署署長、交通部公路局局長就「為促進交通安\n全、達成公平正義，檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中央警察大學、消防署及所屬、移民署、空中\n勤務總隊部分；三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主\n管特別收入基金─ 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署長移民署 署長坤中勤務總隊 總隊長"},{"start":2066.812,"end":2093.681,"text":"新住民發展基金主持人林宥昌部長、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金林宥昌主持人、在校學生獎學基金基金主持人葉爾嫣校長、留竹村先生警察子女獎學基金基金主持人宣介慈"},{"start":2095.373,"end":2118.792,"text":"成員獎學基金主持人楊元明財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全記住基金會董事長方仰寧財團法人檢查學術研究基金會董事長楊元明財團法人義勇消防人員安全記住基金會董事長馮俊毅"},{"start":2120.367,"end":2138.19,"text":"行政院主計總署、公務預算處專門委員吳明修、基金預算處專門委員戴群芳。現在進行報告,請內政部林宥昌部長報告。"},{"start":2147.447,"end":2170.452,"text":"主席、各位委員、先進女士今天內委會召開為促進交通安全、達成公平正義、檢討現行交通執法及事故處理機制本部意見簡要說明報告如下請各位委員參考首先在交通執法部分第一是取締各項重大交通違規"},{"start":2171.852,"end":2186.013,"text":"本部警政署持續推動加強取締重大交通違規的專案,要求各警察機關針對酒後駕車、闖紅燈及嚴重超速等10項重大交通違規"},{"start":2187.595,"end":2202.71,"text":"嚴正執法．使民眾了解正確的交通法令．主動遵守．共同維護交通安全。第二,在行人交通執法部分．本部警衛署依據行政院112年5月．所定班的《行人優先交通安全行動綱理》．"},{"start":2204.491,"end":2220.617,"text":"執法面向,制定了加強重點執法的項目、行動方案來精進交通執法作為維護行人路權。第三,在善用科技執法持續建置入口科技執法設備部分。本部在111年"},{"start":2223.498,"end":2246.049,"text":"針對各直轄市及縣市政府一照式一樓規的路口﹐已經完成偵測265處的路口科技執法的一個設備。另外,行政院也已經核定在112年到113年持續補助各地方政府來建置345處科技執法的設備﹐目前正在持續建設當中。"},{"start":2247.881,"end":2263.013,"text":"第四是積極取締酒後駕車防止酒駕發生的部分本部警政署每月會規劃全國同步取締酒駕的勤務至少兩次並且要求各警察機關視轄區特性以及治安的狀況妥適規劃勤務來加強執法"},{"start":2266.192,"end":2287.79,"text":"第五是執行非耗置入口安全改善的實施計劃。本部警政署自111年11月起常態性的進行執法．並給強化汽機車降死人入群的觀念．養成與閃光紅燈耗置停車再開標誌．或者是停標誌．"},{"start":2289.511,"end":2299.713,"text":"路口停車觀察、確認安全之後再開車的好習慣。六、加強勸導違規臨時停車。我們確實依產房細則第12條及第1項第5款的規定來落實審查與處理。不過,如果為妨礙人車通行的話,會以加強勸導來代替舉方。"},{"start":2316.144,"end":2341.258,"text":"第七,配合交通法規的修法作業,精進警員的執法品質。其次,在交通事故的處理機制部分,由於地狹人稠還有車輛數年年攀升,交通環境日益複雜,違規造勢的數量也增加。"},{"start":2343.04,"end":2360.855,"text":"加以投保車險的比例也提高所以民眾為了保障個人權益遭遇交通事故的報案均尋求警察來協助所以事故量是有逐步增加的一個狀況另外為了精進作為以及成效我們在執行面的部分"},{"start":2362.677,"end":2381.51,"text":"針對A1及A2類有人傷亡的交通事故．本部的警政署也持續提升事故處理品質．從110年開始．推動交通事故處理的智慧化．優化交通事故處理的系統．軟體以及硬體的設備．加快處置的效率．"},{"start":2383.411,"end":2407.986,"text":"在A3類的財損事故方面﹐同時加強宣導民眾在發生A3類事故的時候﹐自行標會或者是拍照現場後移車﹐以降低二類第二次事故發生的一個風險﹐並且及時的紓解車流擁捨。永景德採用攝影或者是錄影等科學儀器製作現場的這個製作現場圖﹐"},{"start":2412.891,"end":2416.826,"text":"聯手會的現行圖以這個提升品質跟效率"},{"start":2418.669,"end":2443.179,"text":"此外,在交通事故處理系統的優化以及調查表的精進部分本部警政署也爭取相關經費來優化事故處理的系統軟體設施推動事故現場處理的數位化以及客具化將傷亡事故的資料完整建置資料庫並且定期提供交通部及各級行政機關來分析運用"},{"start":2444.861,"end":2447.183,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":2464.456,"end":2491.713,"text":"五、提升員警的專業職能以及民眾滿意度的部分本部警政署每年會持續辦理交通事故專責處理人員的講習班以及交通事故噪音分析及噪式重建的講習班來提升員警事故的處理品質以上僅做二要的報告,敬請各位委員指教,謝謝好,謝謝部長接下來請交通部王國才部長報告"},{"start":2499.924,"end":2527.71,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位理事先生以下就今天的題目進行報告首先報告交通安全的辦理情形行政分別在今年5月跟今年的8月17日通過兩個重要的法規一個叫做新年優先交通行動綱領一個是新年交通安全政策綱領希望跨部會的努力前移來落實道安"},{"start":2530.05,"end":2556.842,"text":"2030道路交通死亡人數下降30%行人死亡降低50%為目標實施以後事實上在7到9月整個交通事故的死亡人數降低了137人所以整個非常有它的一個效率另外就是在道路交通安全基本法在10月22日立法院交通委員會已經完成"},{"start":2559.172,"end":2583.391,"text":"這個黨團的協商準備要三讀另外就是在11月8日中央道路交通安全匯報設置要點這個在行政院也都通過現在聘請委員在明年1月會來召開行政院的道路安全匯報另外包括道路交通安全計畫在我們基本法裡面"},{"start":2584.634,"end":2603.76,"text":"四年有行政院定綱要計劃然後每一年部會要定這個推動計劃縣市要推這個執行計劃那現在都在進行當中那另外最重要因為今年初的行人地域課題我們也盤點現在有777處"},{"start":2607.621,"end":2627.817,"text":"這個最優先要改善的地點這個都我們跟內政部都盤點好了那這個部分在明年希望在明年把它完成那我們會從永續提升人行安全計劃來指引那另外就是公共藝術系統的這個完善還有監理制度的加強那這個我們持續在辦理"},{"start":2628.643,"end":2630.104,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":2647.02,"end":2659.033,"text":"但是在這個過程中因為社會反應在這個民眾違規臨時停車的或是持有停車的取締的數量暴增那也希望有一些這個緩衝的時間那經過我們的討論"},{"start":2663.103,"end":2687.114,"text":"我們今年的這個月的10號含請各縣市政府第一個要把臨停的設施做好就是每100到150公尺要花10%的這個臨時的停車的黃線或是專用停車格然後三個月內要最優先的路段把它劃設完畢那這部分在交通部我們道安司也做這個隨時的這個督導"},{"start":2689.935,"end":2710.449,"text":"那明年的上半年22縣市完成所有臨停設施的設置那另外就是關於騎樓這個停車的部分因為在很多縣市的鄉下這個必須有權宜的措施所以我們也給這個地方政府權宜的時間做一些整頓但是在"},{"start":2712.034,"end":2739.753,"text":"上次的法令就是包括交叉路口、工科商務站10公尺還有騎樓部分在上述的還沒有完成相關配套沒完成以我們罰款但是不祭奠那目前大概用這樣的一個遣移措施那接著報告事故處理的機制依據大陸交通這個事故處理辦法主要是由警察機關接獲這個事故以後"},{"start":2742.755,"end":2760.83,"text":"至到這個事故的地點,包括救護支援、會辦等重要的工作。公路主管機關主要是在發現或是接候通報這個事故的通報,然後我們就在現場包括交通的疏導,然後聯繫相關的單位。"},{"start":2763.792,"end":2766.973,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":2790.808,"end":2815.155,"text":"相關報告就可以到現場。那另外針對道路的這個事故的移除我們跟公警局也研擬了一個標準作為程序能夠迅速而且能兼顧到所謂理賠這一部分那這部分目前也在進行那告訴公路局他從106年的這個事故"},{"start":2817.756,"end":2844.152,"text":"這個處理小組的18組到現在已經25組所以在整個處理的速度這個時間可以縮短10%那另外我們的高速公路局跟我們的公路、公警局這個也所謂的共同的派遣包括緩撞車的共用等等的也就是說高速公路還有包括我們相關的這些處理我們的資源也可以共用"},{"start":2844.872,"end":2857.196,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、"},{"start":2868.888,"end":2892.555,"text":"最後決議就是交通安全這個行人交通政策綱領這個已經執行了那7到9月已經有初步的一個成果那民眾選舉的部分也因這個配合措施還沒做好以前也做一些權宜的措施所以我們希望在這個穩健的這個角度"},{"start":2893.895,"end":2899.28,"text":"腳步、持續降低我們事故的發生。以上報告請各位委員會議指教。謝謝。好,謝謝部長。我們現在先休息。"},{"start":2947.981,"end":2954.665,"text":"如果媒體朋友要請教部長現在他方便可以出去接受訪問休息時間可以在這邊可以"},{"start":2978.817,"end":2979.481,"text":"請各位注意禮貌。謝謝"},{"start":3158.618,"end":3163.375,"text":"好,如果方便的話,我們請媒體朋友們可以離席了,謝謝"},{"start":3175.266,"end":3198.803,"text":"現在進行詢答。委員質詢前,原例作以下幾點宣告。本會委員發言時間8分鐘,必要時得延長2分鐘。非本會委員發言時間6分鐘,上午10點30分,截止發言登記。因為經歷預算處理,本次會議就不處理臨時提案。請問各位委員有沒有意見?"},{"start":3218.612,"end":3232.119,"text":"好,我們現在就請登記第一位,由玉蘭委員發言。謝謝主席,我要先請林部長、警政署、黃署長。好,請林部長、黃署長。委員好。"},{"start":3238.836,"end":3252.789,"text":"部長昨天自由時報有這樣的一個新聞警監佔警察人力不到1%其實不是1%只有0.53%我們看看文官的檢認有5.18%"},{"start":3257.713,"end":3278.003,"text":"警察的高階警官只佔文官的十分之一,難道更少人?所以我們在橫向聯繫的時候都會被人家欺負,這個好像是不爭的事實。那我知道警政署也很努力,"},{"start":3279.104,"end":3282.105,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":3302.27,"end":3304.956,"text":"和刑事鑑識中心主任兩個我們要調升40個只給兩個部長請問到底是誰在擋嗎?"},{"start":3312.645,"end":3335.082,"text":"是人總還是全副部?還是都在打?我們要不要據理力爭?跟委員報告,我想兩個部分,第一個是我們警察的等階表、關子檔的部分,這當然是涉及考試院的一個權責不過我們也一直在爭取,目前也都有好的回應"},{"start":3337.122,"end":3357.628,"text":"這個沒有人在檔不過我們充分的一個說明來爭取他們的支持委員提到的今年的有初步的一個成果這個其實也是行政院跟人總還有考試院支持的一個結果剛剛提到的其他的部分是列入第二個階段來做處理基本上已經有共識了"},{"start":3358.208,"end":3383.48,"text":"所以部長我為什麼對這件事情我覺得因為我即將畢業了我在這邊還要在舊事重談我已經質詢過很多次但是全序部給我的回應就是一個是擔心這個同層級機關相關職務的橫平性跟衍生要求援引比照人種更是"},{"start":3387.202,"end":3399.034,"text":"更是大言垮垮,直接就告訴你,這個就好像是這個自由時報的標題,人種就是要求你內政部要四面向來檢討,檢討什麼呢?檢討我們內職務的什麼歷練順序、職務的職責程度、業務性質、機關層次等等的。"},{"start":3412.179,"end":3414.941,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":3435.413,"end":3455.639,"text":"非常非常低所以這些都是這些坐在冷氣房裡面的權序部或者是人總沒有去看那事實上目前我覺得除了剛剛警政署已經在爭取的這40個人警監職務之外本席直接就向部長"},{"start":3456.559,"end":3456.579,"text":"報告。"},{"start":3476.001,"end":3496.108,"text":"以及我們現在其實因應性平三法還有少事法等等的其實少年隊跟婦幼隊獨立來運作已經不合時宜了應該要有一個類似叫保護大隊之類這個是我在十幾年前我做的一個研究報告就已經提出來了以及專業警察機關的督察長都應該調整為警監職務還有刑事"},{"start":3503.817,"end":3517.582,"text":"跟就是我們的偵查跟交通都這麼重要可是小聯盟的刑大跟交通還是只有兩縣市就是矮人一級所以這些都請"},{"start":3519.483,"end":3535.503,"text":"部長不是只有剛剛講的40人40個這個他們有很多都是以屬屬機關的他沒有看到各縣市、地方警察機關在運作上他們的食物的需求部長可不可以諮論也一併考量"},{"start":3536.601,"end":3552.181,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、"},{"start":3556.229,"end":3575.754,"text":"我必須要在這邊我也要公開的向所有的警消同仁來講我們現在難得有一個身體力行最挺警消的部長而且是見級履級今年的3月30日我在這個地方提出了警大跟警專學生伙食費只有每個月3258元"},{"start":3580.675,"end":3605.136,"text":"然後當時我提出說去年師範的公費生就已經調到4300元部長我最感動的是您見急屢急馬上去見院長我們3月30號提出質詢你在5月1日就讓我們警大跟警專以及在寶一、寶四"},{"start":3606.377,"end":3613.468,"text":"保護、受訓的這些特考班的再訓的學員、伙食終於得到比較合理的4300元。"},{"start":3615.117,"end":3637.393,"text":"但是昨天我們去警大我必須要講警大在這幾年來我們預算不斷的從零雞開始還要統一的統三統三百分之五警大已經到了真的是無以為繼的一個地步了部長已經看到過我們在警察大學的"},{"start":3639.133,"end":3665.298,"text":"系所的行政費用包括辦學術等等的我在的時候退休前還可以弄到七、八萬但是對於一個行政警察大系是沒有辦法的所以我自己知道巧婦難為無米之炊退出了、退休了可是部長您看的時候您今年去已經看到校長跟我講說那個時候現在一個系一年只有"},{"start":3666.558,"end":3676,"text":"兩萬塊可是今年你們幫他爭取但是還有很多很多問題昨天我們看到最嚴重的問題是這個中和警計館這因為他的建築的問題所以他嚴重漏水現在說有32個臉盆在那邊接水這個漏水雨季即將來了今天開始下雨了馬上會越來越嚴重還有我們警大學生"},{"start":3694.71,"end":3718.812,"text":"活動非常多的操場,現在因為年久失修,裡面不管是紅螞蟻也好,或者是大蚯蚓也好,那個我把它叫做地無一米平,但是不好意思,警察大學校長是人無三兩銀,想要修都沒有辦法修。部長,這個怎麼幫他們啊?"},{"start":3721.986,"end":3748.084,"text":"非常謝謝委員垂詢昨天之後我有詢問一下楊校長因為之前他們的預算跟經費也還沒有提出來我在今年年初的時候去視察的時候也並沒有反映這個問題我如果知道的話我就會立即處理所以我現在是請楊校長把這個相關的一個預算把它提出來"},{"start":3749.565,"end":3760.393,"text":"這個警計館的部分可能需要9400多萬另外操場的部分可能需要300多萬我想對於警大生還有警校的這個警大的這個教學環境我們會全力來支持是那謝謝部長做的這樣承諾我們也希望警大盡快提出預算的這個計畫書來不能夠再等到114年我先請這個部長還有校長回座"},{"start":3775.803,"end":3780.545,"text":"接下來我要請交通部王部長跟警政署黃署長也請您留著。謝謝,謝謝部長,因為這段時間,其實我在立法院這四年來我知道您做很多事情,但是我們交通是擊中,我不相信南反,我們一定擊中還是要把他救回來了。"},{"start":3804.312,"end":3831.937,"text":"最近因為我剛剛聽到您的報告裡面有針對那個祭典制啊什麼有一些有一些還有猶豫的這個猶豫期的就讓他們先做改善在這個我尊重尊重交通部的專業但是但是我看到這個這個是聯合報啊聯合報這個就講了說在台北市政府這個台北市議會的質詢裡面就直接就解釋"},{"start":3833.037,"end":3848.788,"text":"台北市計點轉移4個月19萬元黃牛轉賣這不是唯一的因為我們也在臉書上面看到有沒有用到的駕照連結車的因為修法要用到責任歸屬的臉書問題他這個意思寫錯有意的來"},{"start":3853.962,"end":3875.568,"text":"我不知道,這個不是大型的貨運、連結、來徵司機,而是徵駕照。部長,這難道是我們在修這個法的時候所想要做到嗎?我之所以把黃署長也留著的原因是,"},{"start":3876.837,"end":3879.059,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":3898.417,"end":3905.784,"text":"結果都是有這種上有政策、下有對策的,可不可以做個說明?是,各位報告,這個我們有經過討論,現在主要是說拍照以後車主他去證明說是別人來開嘛,如果證明這個找這個別人哪一個人來,他如果有違證的話,是要護這個使這個情況的規定"},{"start":3921.978,"end":3942.155,"text":"對,根據此規定,所以這個部分我有請我們公路局跟所有包括六都相關的單位也做一個討論,這個部分要讓他們知道這是刑法的問題。對,一定要抓,一定要用力的抓。部長,其實這主要還有一個原因,就是因為我們的隔熱紙貼得太黑了。"},{"start":3942.836,"end":3943.377,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中"},{"start":3962.092,"end":3986.852,"text":"這個是70%的透光率但是貼了格惡值以後可能就會下降那這部分我們現在在已經有委託個計畫在做那明年3月會先對計程車那明年9月會研究對於小汽車的部分那為什麼會有這樣的研究就是說格惡值第一個是品牌哪些品牌比如說從國際進來的到底要不要再做檢查"},{"start":3987.312,"end":4010.309,"text":"或是國外的認證就可以了。那第二個,隔熱紙的這個偵測的這些儀器也要檢驗,就像上次我們這個測速照相也發生一些狀況,所以這個需要一些準備時間,那這個待我們明年3月初步會把方案提出來。不過部長,因為您剛剛講說明年3月是先從計程車開始做起,其實"},{"start":4011.87,"end":4039.277,"text":"如果您看到我這個PowerPoint上面這個莊富權的貼文是大型駕駛、連結車、大貨車、巴士、重型機械我覺得這些職業的車輛也應該在3月就要開始實施因為主要跟照有報告目前在我們的定檢裡面就針對計程車就是說它從讀卡裡面去看說裡面有沒有這個有沒有透光"},{"start":4040.037,"end":4066.074,"text":"那這個我們是覺得因為這個是現在在訂檢裡面就規定的但是其他車輛在訂檢沒有規定那這代表是我們有漏洞對,所以我們是想因為剛才有很多相關包括設備格二值的檢驗這個課題給我們一點時間先對計程車這邊來實施然後後續再看然後它也有談到所謂是不是既往不咎的課題所以它還蠻複雜的我想說這部分我們也有重視到這個課題"},{"start":4068.294,"end":4076.837,"text":"不必再往回看了我們要往前看已經發現這個是問題存在我真的很希望我們交通部能夠盡快地去檢討這職業的價值的這個11月26日大概有3000多個重機車友跟1000輛重機到交通部去陳情抗議"},{"start":4086.841,"end":4106.013,"text":"最主要是因為道交條例的92條修法已經通過12年當時92條是說大重機可以行駛高速公路那我問過很多次但是部長您都說因為六成民意反對到目前還沒有開放任何時段或路段"},{"start":4109.017,"end":4121.573,"text":"國三甲有開放?國三甲開放?國三甲開放到現在好像也沒有什麼重大車禍,是不是?有,有,那個我剛剛有報告這個部分的確是,因為當重欄是這樣規定,但是他授權給"},{"start":4123.294,"end":4150.183,"text":"這個交通部針對可開放的路段在在所以我給我們一個權利了過去我們國三甲開放然後快速道路開放我們委託中華民國運輸學院而且他是把大型重機的團結找來過去三個指標裡面最重要就是說安全指標就事故的建樹是他們是OK的但是他的所以是安全的嘛所以您剛剛講說他們是OK在聽清楚但是在國三甲上的重機是安全的對"},{"start":4150.743,"end":4171.414,"text":"然後次序就是這個被違規啟地的次數還有一個叫很重要是在我們討論的行為指標就是他們過去包括未保持安全間距來變換車道或是類似機車行為在國三甲是這個鑽車祸等等的這個在我們在106跟109的這個討論我們研究中106跟109那請問現在是"},{"start":4177.997,"end":4179.938,"text":"所以我們很希望你們能夠公佈真正的數據就好像"},{"start":4207.038,"end":4225.687,"text":"在上個星期也是本委到嘉義市去嘉義市當時由內政部輔助有做了一個我忘了是什麼路了可能是中山路還是什麼路大鵬國小前面有很多道路的改善工程"},{"start":4227.332,"end":4229.154,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":4242.532,"end":4255.465,"text":"內政部．現在國土管理署．就直接就講了．署長就直接講說．可是你知道嗎．自從改善之後．我們那邊的車禍．A2車禍．減少7成．王美惠委員就講說．這你們就要說了．你們就要說了．"},{"start":4258.047,"end":4282.029,"text":"所以因為一般的包括他們那個嘉義市的市民、機車族會覺得很不方便本來有機車專用道現在沒有那個地方道士不是用車種來分道的而是用同向來分流的我覺得那個地方就可以變成我每次跟部長說我們不用用強制的車"},{"start":4283.811,"end":4299.19,"text":"車種來分道有時候造成不必要的交織反而變成危險的路段把那個地方當成一個實驗的然後讓人民隨時知道原來即使我們稍微慢一點可以大家和平"},{"start":4300.342,"end":4313.496,"text":"共榮、平等來使用我覺得這個是交通部應該要做的所以我還是建議部長對於台76八卦山隧道跟台74霧峰段"},{"start":4315.738,"end":4332.507,"text":"開放大型重機車這個我知道你們已經在11月20日完成專家協商會議大家對開放好像我聽說啦都是持正向意見有沒有可能在我卸任之前可以看到事半"},{"start":4333.909,"end":4355.649,"text":"這個部分他們的確有跟我做過報告但是對於誤闖這個課題我想這個部分我願意再來跟他們討論一下在過去我曾經給他們一個題目就是說這個誤闖一跑到高速公路怎麼辦這個問題部長那公路誤闖部長那我就還要再加一句話因為我自己也是一個開車族的"},{"start":4357.816,"end":4362.22,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":4373.149,"end":4393.799,"text":"五股交流道那邊、閘道上那邊的照明以及我們的標誌、標線都很不清楚會造成誤闖並不是所有機車族甚至於還有騎腳踏車騎上去的都有所以這個我們就是理性的來看我願意再來評估一次另外一個其實"},{"start":4397.941,"end":4412.571,"text":"我那個交通委員會的資深委員李昆哲委員也跟我有同樣的看法我們現在交通之所以會亂是很多因地制宜因地制宜交通部你訂的這些這個標這個標誌標線的"},{"start":4416.095,"end":4442.351,"text":"這些設置標準可是居然這個你沒怎麼看啦高雄出現神秘道路標線然後有的是在什麼臺南這個是新北新北沒有最離譜只有更離譜這個當然行人、用路人絕對會混亂而且會造成很多人那臺南"},{"start":4443.632,"end":4457.507,"text":"台南的圓環說真的我最近常跑台南經常不知道什麼時候可以轉該怎麼轉然後台南的用路人告訴我說他們最慘的是現在都是用科技執法"},{"start":4458.948,"end":4474.516,"text":"造成很嚴重的問題然後現在還有祭典所以觀光客說我很冤枉啊來,你們這邊還有一圈三字還有什麼這個臺南市的圓環這樣設計並沒有比較安全在今年1到9月就發生了302件車禍398人受傷"},{"start":4485.241,"end":4509.314,"text":"違規有6686這還感謝科技執法我覺得交通部你們應該要負起督導的責任可以做到嗎的確我們現在大概就是如果標誌標線號誌設置規則裡面事實上有規範它怎麼放牌面多大什麼狀況大家看到據此狀那個是一個事辦"},{"start":4510.234,"end":4534.433,"text":"就是收檢讓它減速等等的但是的確這個委員所提的整體性的考量在地方政府的確很亂就是說當他把各種標誌牌掛上去以後變得很亂那這部分我已經責成我們同仁是希望對於這些縣市做一些整體的評估的建議那當然就是說因為掛這些標誌牌都地方政府的前線我們願意從專業上來協助請他把它"},{"start":4539.076,"end":4566.831,"text":"當整體掛上去以後的這種可能產生的誤解他們必須要處理我想這部分我們交通部來協助非常感謝那其實不只是紅燈右轉的問題我們在城市裡面開車就像進入迷宮這也是本席常常會請我們警政署、交通組跟公路局一起來開會不要讓執法的同仁站在第一線"},{"start":4568.152,"end":4582.408,"text":"自己不撒撒,然後也造成我們警民關係的不良,然後我們所有交通安全的努力都變成付諸一愧,這太可惜了。非常感謝各位,我們繼續努力好不好,謝謝。"},{"start":4595.595,"end":4612.021,"text":"接下來請賴品雯委員質詢謝謝主席,是不是麻煩主席有請交通部王國才王部長王部長請"},{"start":4616.756,"end":4644.945,"text":"委員好部長好我想今天的這個主題是交通執法那今年為了擺脫行人地域的惡名我們也修正了這個道路交通管理處罰條例不過今天這個除了行人的路權以外我有一件事情想要來請教部長這邊就是說本席有注意到這個月我相信交通部這邊應該也知道就是說這個月有一則交通事故的新聞那是在這個台中地方法院11月中的判決"},{"start":4645.785,"end":4667.489,"text":"他判決說是因為過失致死,判了一個救護車司機有期徒刑兩個月那這個案件的內容大概是說救護車搭載病患型救護勤務的時候因為闖越紅燈路口那在途中跟一位綠燈通行的酒駕機車騎士發生車禍最後這位酒駕騎士鬆移後仍然傷重不治"},{"start":4673.496,"end":4702.264,"text":"我想第一個就是說發生交通死亡的車禍大家都不樂見但是藉著這個事故我也希望可以跟部長這邊來討論一下這個救護車入權的問題因為我有注意到也有去看這份判決書它在判決裡面引用了一部分交通部早期的一份行政函釋那這個函釋其實是在這個民國70年11月18號的時候的是函釋民國70年非常久之前"},{"start":4703.064,"end":4723.083,"text":"那簡單的說就是它裡面有提到說在任務中的消防車、救護車、警備車、民、敵或者是說警號跟開紅色的閃光燈執行任務的時候在緊急解批要之下原則得排除交通道路安全規則第102條之各項規定"},{"start":4725.845,"end":4741.834,"text":"但因該車輛行駛方式甚為危險行車技術上仍依照本部66年的函釋特別顧及行人及其他車輛安全那總之呢第一個就是說交通部在70年有這份函釋所以在判決書裡面"},{"start":4742.754,"end":4763.606,"text":"那包含說臺中市的車輛行車事故鑑定委員會鑑定還有跟這個副議委員會都有去提到說認為救護車在駕駛的時候沒有顧及其他車輛安全那與闖列紅燈的時候沒有充分注意綠燈的這個行車動態是本期判決認為構成事故的原因之一那第二個問題是"},{"start":4765.047,"end":4789.813,"text":"這個事件會受到注目不只是這件事情還有一個問題是一個很大的問題就是說現行的法規上救護車在緊急民敵時沒有絕對的路權所以才會去判說救護車駕駛需要負責當然從這個判決的刑度可以看得出來說法官確實有判得比較輕一點五年以下的條文只判了兩個月那也一顆罰金可是我要提醒一件事情"},{"start":4790.473,"end":4812.025,"text":"就是呢在進行緊急救護任務的時候當然是分秒必爭的那儘速去將傷患送到醫院去進行治療當然是當務之急啦我相信這個救護車的駕駛也不會是仗著自己是救護車就亂開去造成交通大亂而是在盡力確認不會造成危險的前提之下去儘速的趕路嘛"},{"start":4812.825,"end":4831.75,"text":"所以這次遇上這個狀況也只能說可以說是束手無策所以我想要請問王部長這邊第一個是說交通部你們這邊到底有沒有講過這起事件然後第二是對於救護車入權的問題因為我看判決書其實都是引我們交通部很早年的含釋交通部你這邊到底有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":4833.311,"end":4848.22,"text":"在我們的處罰條例裡面救護車擰底的時候所有車輛都要避讓包括橫向跟他側邊的這個都要避讓那當然就是說這個當然是獨立的審判我不方便去評論理論上是應該避"},{"start":4851.703,"end":4879.76,"text":"這個避讓但是如果但是救護車的確就是說縱然避讓他還是要注意一些狀況也不能說什麼故意還怎麼樣所以想說這個部分在我們裡面談的部分救護車來橫向側邊全部都要避讓這個就是一個但是他到底比如說有沒有盡他自己的義務去注意到前面也不能說因為避讓就完全不注意去撞到車子或因為他很多是紅燈在跑"},{"start":4880.64,"end":4896.777,"text":"所以我想這部分就由他們來談但是我們的規定就是這樣就全部都要避讓我幾個建議啦就是說第一個是說這個函事其實是比較久之前的那第二就是說因為其實大家有討論說民敵的時候雖然你說有規定要避讓但是事實上它其實沒有絕對的路權"},{"start":4897.998,"end":4923.63,"text":"所以我有幾個建議就是說第一個當然是我們可以從道路交通安全規則去著手但第二個做法是從交通部是不是有可能可以從自己早期的含釋去著手因為我剛剛有特別提到說他引的其實是很早期的含釋而且目前也有救護車到底有沒有最優先的路權的問題所以也許是不是我建議啦交通部可以去考慮從自己早期的含釋去著手例如呢"},{"start":4924.15,"end":4949.891,"text":"把這個救護車應顧及其他車輛的內容去調整一下改成說於紅燈時救護車得以確認路況後通行其他車應理讓救護車這樣子的方向去讓救護車的路權去擺在優先因為這幾年我們可以看到例如熱門的這個台劇火神的眼淚裡面其實有演過救護車為了送醫闖紅燈反而遭撞的情節"},{"start":4950.772,"end":4974.199,"text":"那為了救人反而駕駛吃上官司我覺得其實這個大家也都不願意看到這個狀況所以我想是不是在這一題上面我希望交通部這邊可以回去研議救護車優先入權的問題那到時候因為我知道這個當然是需要討論是不是我們可以先研議然後到時候再去給本席一份報告這部分做得到嗎我請我們那個同仁來研議一下"},{"start":4974.799,"end":5002.462,"text":"一切也有這種狀況就是說縱然民體旁邊可能不知道嘛我想還蠻複雜的因為像這個過來他是酒駕他可能狀況也是意識模糊不清的所以這個部分就是要麻煩交通部啦那再來第二件事情我們要繼續去討論就是有關本席選區的問題因為其實像我之前其實也有在尋答的時候跟部長講過嘛就是說我們汐止區大概在十幾年前鐵路高架化因為順著我們汐止區需要發展嘛那"},{"start":5004.264,"end":5017.719,"text":"當時鐵路高架化其實並沒有去想到說我們後來汐止區的發展會這麼的快速現在變成說台鐵沿線的噪音其實對周邊的居民來說困擾是越來越嚴重的啦那"},{"start":5018.32,"end":5042.739,"text":"目前這件事情本席除了在交通委員會有就我們交通部這邊提出主決議以外其實也在前幾天週二的時候28號有跟台鐵局去會刊那目前第一個是說先確定是就五堵站到西科站的路段沿線噪音改善規劃會在2023年底前招標委託顧問公司去辦理噪音改善的這個"},{"start":5043.72,"end":5043.76,"text":"規劃的評估"},{"start":5074.1,"end":5097.188,"text":"那包含說應該是要包含說南港到矽科間的這個臺北地下化出土段至矽科站還有五堵站到這個新五堵隧道口其實這個部分也都有經過我們非常非常多的民宅所以我在建議啦也是希望說要求交通部是不是可以要把我講的這個範圍一併的去納入也就是說你納入之後等於是"},{"start":5098.388,"end":5117.133,"text":"我們的台鐵經過細紙的全部的沿線都可以納入評估是不是要發包的範圍?我想這部分是不是能夠請部長承諾?因為如果今天我們就是要去解決台鐵經過我們細紙的問題那其實就是不應該是以車站到車站之間為一個標的嘛,其實應該是要沿線"},{"start":5118.571,"end":5137.53,"text":"好,謝謝委員,我非常謝謝委員,事實上委員所爭取的,包括上次看的汐止國中跟修豐高中,這應該下個月就要完工了是我想說,鐵路沿線後來,因為鐵路開發以後很多的建築這部分的噪音我覺得把五堵到新五堵的這個納入,我請台鐵來評估"},{"start":5139.751,"end":5157.699,"text":"同樣在年底就是說所謂年底就是他們也要開始去看那個噪音的變化狀況留給他們時間我覺得現在也不是只有一段就是說如果沿線有影響到這個市民生活的那個我們必須本來就要負這樣的責任"},{"start":5158.599,"end":5185.687,"text":"對,因為其實本來我們第二階段第一階段的要完工了嘛那第二階段其實是希望做沿線、全線的評估那不是,那就應該是真的經過我們汐止區全部的沿線那這部分就再麻煩交通部了我請台鐵把他納入好,那最後一點時間我還想跟部長詢問這個台六二線延伸京萬這案的進度啦因為我們北海岸萬里、金山甚至到隔壁的石門三芝一直都是北台灣觀光的重鎮"},{"start":5186.647,"end":5215.386,"text":"那事實上我想部長也都非常的清楚我們這幾個選區啊基本上在假日的時候平日其實就也那個交通交通的需求越來越大那假日更是不得了啊基本上假日你開到那邊就是塞在那邊那所以其實在我上任之後就非常的積極希望這個促成過去已經停擺好好一段時間非常多年的這個台六二線延伸京萬這件事情可以繼續去推動"},{"start":5216.667,"end":5238.614,"text":"那這個部分呢我除了定期跟交通部去追蹤進度以外其實也有要求交通部一定要在可行性評估完成之前在地方去辦說明會那也就是我簡報上述提到的那今年呢其實確實交通部在6月的時候有在我們的萬里金山還有延伸的時候會經過的這個基隆這邊有去辦三場說明會"},{"start":5240.094,"end":5251.472,"text":"那在會中的時候公路總局其實也有跟鄉親報告相關進度那會中確實也有鄉親也有提供一些意見的回饋包含說萬里的出口交流道的"},{"start":5252.762,"end":5271.452,"text":"方案應該要去怎麼調整那這個部分我也知道也第一個就是說也感謝說公總我知道公總這邊也有配合在做調整那目前的進度是9月初的時候公路總局有將這個可行性評估期末報告報到交通部那我知道說9月中的時候交通部你有把這個案子退回去公路總局修改"},{"start":5271.892,"end":5299.249,"text":"那10月13號的時候公路總局有再次報到交通部我想請問一下部長目前已經11月底了因為其實鄉親都非常非常非常的期待這個建設我想請問部長目前的進度到哪裡?是,剛剛有報告排六二延伸到萬里金山我們都非常的支持讓它這個整個不要讓台二線這麼塞然後現在他們報告送上來我剛才有問他們是現在安排跟我的報告因為我不知道這個事我盡速來聽"},{"start":5301.83,"end":5318.858,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、"},{"start":5319.918,"end":5346.323,"text":"來處理之前其實也已經延宕了近10年了所以這個部分是不是要請部長全力的協助交通部應該要全力的協助競速的審理讓我們這個金山還有萬里的鄉親可以安心對沒問題我趕快安排簡報然後趕快完成這個交通部的審查然後趕快通過我想這個案子是六月裡面一個這個很重要的案子我想這部分也謝謝委員的爭取"},{"start":5349.183,"end":5361.175,"text":"讓我們來做這樣的一個研究。那我們就可以用最快的12月底前會把可行性送到行政院。好,那就照部長說的,拜託年底前進行處理。是,是。OK,謝謝部長。好,謝謝。謝謝。接下來請張宏祿委員質詢。"},{"start":5380.579,"end":5409.161,"text":"麻煩請內政部跟交通部林部長、王部長請部長齁其實啊我們台灣的交通啊我們的主責機關非常的多啦兩位部長你認不認同就道路的維護啦管理啊等等的是不是其實啊很多單位其實都有他的權責"},{"start":5412.014,"end":5420.72,"text":"對不對?交通的主管機關當然是交通部不過有其他的包括道路的工程等等那當然內政部有部分的權責"},{"start":5421.952,"end":5441.272,"text":"我們國土署其實也有管道啊國土署也有他的權責啊是那個都市計畫內的道路的部分對嘛 對不對那王部長那其實是不是像我說的其實這個管理的啦真的是太多機關了等於說負責的機關非常破碎我們現在有沒有這個問題"},{"start":5443.214,"end":5459.653,"text":"的確我們現在就是公路系統是交通部都市計劃內是國土署事實上和農路是這個農業部還有產業、經濟部、水利署的很多目前是因為各自的現在的合作還算順暢"},{"start":5461.375,"end":5474.07,"text":"當然如果能整合是最好但是現在的確分代各個不同的部會但是整合上還是順暢比如說我們跟國土署在這個交界渡假的交界的話也都做很多協調還都會一次斷面會一次的"},{"start":5475.419,"end":5497.219,"text":"是啦,現在的齁,其實行之有年了啦齁,但是在工程上在什麼的話,我覺得都沒有問題啦但是呢,在一般的行車的管理上啊,其實啊,我真的覺得有點太破碎我們舉個例子好了齁,這個我們在地方上啊,比如說要不要劃紅線跟黃線"},{"start":5499.241,"end":5528.667,"text":"哇!這個有時候所有的部會要一起來欸!這個林部長你當過市長你應該知道這個問題這個主責的機關當然是地方政府的交通單位啦不過因為要所謂的劃線的部分當然也會這個聽一下其他單位的一個意見不過主責還是在交通單位地方政府的交通單位沒有"},{"start":5529.605,"end":5557.719,"text":"要不要劃紅線、要不要劃黃線,主責是在地方政府啦,對不對?但常常啊,要不要劃一個紅線或黃線啊,地方政府或我們這樣會刊啊,就要所有的單位都到,所有的單位到的時候,有時候還要在現場啊,再找說,這個路段到底是誰的?這個路段到底是誰的?其實有時候剛好在交接的部分或什麼的,第一線的同仁有時候也搞不清楚耶,"},{"start":5558.539,"end":5558.94,"text":"部長您有沒有遇過這種情況?"},{"start":5564.283,"end":5591.962,"text":"林部長你有沒有遇過?你做過啟定嗎?我覺得那個還好啦那個其實協調一下就好了那比較在地方上比較多的問題是要不要畫的問題要不要畫的問題當然是很多的問題啦但我覺得啦其實像我們現在有太破碎了其實有時候會造成很多的困擾啦"},{"start":5594.904,"end":5615.638,"text":"農路、產業道路基本上不存在要不要劃線的問題。但我為什麼會提出這個問題?我認為道路並不是把路鋪平就好。我們今天講的重點就是把交通安全列為重要的考量,這才是我們要去做的。"},{"start":5617.239,"end":5642.206,"text":"所以我在這邊就是說兩位部長像如果說遇到像這樣子我剛剛所說的這個你們有沒有認為說在都市裡面尤其是六都裡面有沒有需要把它弄一個比較單一的一個管理你們有沒有這個想法或不是你們有沒有認同有這個想法"},{"start":5644.382,"end":5669.931,"text":"現在他們的整合主要是在他們的大案匯報裡面比如說我們的工程處的處長現在也會去參加所以如果牽涉到這個整合問題我們就直接在大案匯報裡面把它談現在要整合成一個單位因為它現在就是公務、交通嘛都是計劃單位但是它通通在大案匯報裡面而且他們原本的職責已經很多工作了"},{"start":5670.791,"end":5675.458,"text":"要把它弄成一個真的是有點困難但是整合這些課題很重要是"},{"start":5676.889,"end":5701.636,"text":"好啦,我是點出這個問題,阿我認為喔,其實我知道在大安匯報有這個,但是其實阿,你會遇到阿,有的在第一線的行政首長,他很認真,他就會去處理。阿如果不認真的或是對這個不了解的齁,你事情有遇到問題齁,光我們是要開路、闢路或什麼,有時候廠廠也會拖了很久啦。這我相信喔,大家實務上都有遇到這個問題啦齁。"},{"start":5703.596,"end":5728.969,"text":"那再來另外兩位部長我要請教一下我們這個交通安全、行人的安全什麼的這個我們是非常非常的要去做的這我們也都非常認同不過實際上在第一線我們會遇到一個情況就是說像現在這個警局達人這樣子有的人他是有殘障車牌"},{"start":5730.923,"end":5752.723,"text":"殘障車牌的這個殘障車牌我們要不要有給他一些通融的空間他推著輪椅或他不能走他總不可能說到好幾百公尺以外不在他家門口下車這一點我們在執法上我不知道這個我們這個警政署或我們這個跟交通部這邊我們有沒有協調過這個問題"},{"start":5756.387,"end":5766.138,"text":"深藏者的聆聽在我們的才華細則的12條有規範如果是他們比如說上下輪椅的話可以不舉花"},{"start":5767.298,"end":5770.14,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":5788.291,"end":5803.161,"text":"他輪椅走了啊,他車關門啊,他沒有照,他沒有拍你那個他上下輪椅的啊,他只拍你那個一瞬間你停在路邊的這個啊,啊這個也被罰了欸,這個警政署,這個也被罰了欸"},{"start":5804.762,"end":5818.29,"text":"如果有這種現象是可以來申復的一般我們都是要有妨礙人車通行要有連續性的那如果這個沒有連續只有當下的部分還是可以做一個撤除那個裁判我知道啦這個但啦"},{"start":5820.451,"end":5844.544,"text":"會造成了很多的困擾我們都認同要有給行人安全但殘障人士我們也是要給他一個安全他也不可能說推著輪椅很遠的地方來所以我覺得這一個部分的執法可能我覺得我們還要再細一點跟委員報告一下現在我們如果是民眾檢舉的話他舉證"},{"start":5846.745,"end":5869.775,"text":"他不是只只憑一張照片他就這個現在現在改了對所以這個部分我們已經有改進對我知道現在改了但我覺得這個改我覺得還是要那個因為如果是殘障車牌我覺得至少要給人家比如說3分鐘或幾分鐘的時間因為你要知道他他要拿倫理他也要從"},{"start":5871.216,"end":5889.856,"text":"不是輪椅他一停車輪椅就擺在那裡了我覺得這一個部分我們可能是不是要再研究一下我們要讓行人的安全很重要我們都認同但殘障人士的行的安全我覺得我們也要注重一下如果有這種情形的話那個罰單他實際上是可以撤除的沒有問題"},{"start":5891.119,"end":5903.785,"text":"我知道啦但有的人他也無法有證據去測數那個輪椅都推走了我們還是會就事實來做認定我覺得你們做得細一點就好了啦好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":5906.584,"end":5925.857,"text":"那個林部長你先請坐最後一點時間王部長謝謝王部長我想再請教一下我們這個板橋社後捷運社後輕軌這個部長你也很清楚我們現在的進度是到哪裡了"},{"start":5927.107,"end":5942.011,"text":"我們在新北曾經提出整體入網評估,我們要求他放進去,他放進去了但是他的確在這個後來在推的時候,他是預留了空間,但是沒有把它畫上去我剛剛有報告就是說,事實上我們也經過這些路線的勘查"},{"start":5947.333,"end":5975.423,"text":"也包括社會支線事實上我們是覺得可行的那的確現在要不要實際晃進去是在新北市政府的態度那交通部是覺得社會地區的發展它的確少一個往外連的一個骨幹交通所以在交通部在各個場合裡面我都支持這樣的一個提案這是我們的狀況但是的確新北市政府要不要晃進去我們也在實際跟他溝通"},{"start":5977.121,"end":6003.149,"text":"反正,交通部我們這邊就是認為要做,錢也有了,什麼都準備好了,現在就是只差新北市一個穩而已嘛,對不對?看他的態度,雖然當時也爭取一些貴厚費用給他做,這個我們爭取,所以就是表達我們的態度,希望他放進去。第一,他現在在真正可行性丟出來的時候,是只有留,沒有放,但是我們也有跟他建議說,這個地方,"},{"start":6004.429,"end":6026.04,"text":"而且社會地區的這些居民也需求非常大所以我們大概是希望說新北市政府還是考量到民眾的需求這個好好的考慮重點是新北市政府也已經留了路線規劃了嘛對不對重點是新北市政府這個路線規劃也都留了嘛他留了可以擴展對嘛好謝謝"},{"start":6033.183,"end":6037.628,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請黃士傑委員質詢好 謝謝主席那我順便有請王部長還有林部長好 兩位部長請"},{"start":6058.042,"end":6082.703,"text":"兩位部長早我想今天非常難得交通部林部長跟內政部林部長都來到同一個委員會顯見大家對於這個專題報告的重視因為交通安全跟我們的交通執法跟我們的事故處理都是非常重要影響人民的日常生活非常重要的事情"},{"start":6084.22,"end":6106.387,"text":"當然為了洗刷行人地域的污名我們除了修法之外也做了很多行政的措施從你們的報告裡面數字上看起來在今年的尤其是下半年也確實在減少行人死傷的交通事故"},{"start":6107.475,"end":6135.447,"text":"那麼顯然這些事情是這些作為是有所成效的當然我們還要再持續觀察是不是可以把它到底做對了什麼事情我想後續還是要來研究但是同時這些措施其實也造成了地方上近來非常多的民怨也就是說因為執法的過程這個大家比較不會那麼快的感受到變安全了"},{"start":6136.208,"end":6138.92,"text":"但是卻先收到罰單跟祭典"},{"start":6140.314,"end":6166.275,"text":"所以很多的問題也特別也凸顯了這個問題的複雜度跟這個長期以來我們的都市規劃以及我們的城鄉的差距沒有在這些機制裡面被考慮進去也就是說譬如說道路設計現在都把人行道納進去可是在城鄉對於人行道的需求其實差異很大"},{"start":6168.754,"end":6186.141,"text":"對於大家用路使用的習慣其實也有很大的差別還有就是對於臨時停車還有停車特別是在夜間我們在地方上遇到非常多的問題剛才也有很多人提到"},{"start":6187.802,"end":6215.25,"text":"這個不好意思在今年的8月、7、8月的時候這個交通部跟內政部就這個臨時停車的部分有強化就是說一定要不管是不是檢舉案件都要強化這個勸導跟注重這個實際行車的妨礙人車通行的這個規定但是就夜間停車的使用習慣我們現在這個問題還是沒有解決"},{"start":6216.528,"end":6233.863,"text":"我是舉這個例子來跟你們講說這個後面牽涉問題非常多因為譬如說我們想像的都是一個都市的情景所以道路的淨空這件事情好像是24小時隨時都應該要滿足的可是在我們的非都會的地區"},{"start":6235.27,"end":6261.784,"text":"有很多其實他到夜間特別是大家又晚晚飯又8點、7、8點以後其實使用習慣都是雖然他有劃白線或是怎麼樣他的路線可能不夠停車但是大家都停整排這個就是過去在建商在蓋房子的時候他因為地區這附近過去都是這樣使用習慣所以他也沒有準備充足的停車位給他這個社區大樓來使用就說外面都可以停"},{"start":6262.759,"end":6290.57,"text":"好,這樣的使用習慣經過20年、15年之後現在造成問題了只要這個社區有一個很喜歡在晚上來檢舉他發現他自己沒有車尾他就把他檢舉檢舉之後大家都被開單開走了他就有位子可以停了造成這樣子的民業是不是我們可以有一些,譬如說相對應的行政的作為可以來因應來應對"},{"start":6292.358,"end":6314.134,"text":"因為現在地方上過去都講說檢舉達人現在他們又發明了名詞說這叫檢舉魔人你可以想像這個地方上的民宴是有這樣的一個狀況所以說我是要請教因為這個同時涉及交通部所主管的關於這個檢舉的範圍、項目跟法規還有我們警察機關在執法的時候"},{"start":6318.957,"end":6336.074,"text":"能不能夠有一些比較彈性的空間但我們不能要求警署不依照法令來執行之務來執法但是各地的使用的習慣、民情還有實際上對於道路交通安全的這個急迫性"},{"start":6337.628,"end":6361.125,"text":"跟它的使用型態是不一樣的我想要請教,先請教王部長應該這樣講,我應該先請教林部長跟黃署長你們在執法的時候是不是常常遇到這種問題再來請教王部長說是不是在法規的訂定上可以比照剛剛講的臨時停車或者是針對一些比較弱勢其他情境去做更細緻的處理那我們先請"},{"start":6363.657,"end":6382.21,"text":"謝委員警察機關在處理臨時停車尤其是七樓地的停車問題困擾很多民眾的檢舉消化到我們很大的警力所以要根本解決就是這個夜間"},{"start":6383.37,"end":6410.29,"text":"開放七樓地的停車,到底要幾點開始可以開放停車?這可能涉及到法規的修訂。我們也期盼說,這個能放寬,讓住戶社區的居民有方便停車。畢竟我們現在停車位是不足,這才能根本解決,否則警察機關接受到選舉,那你認定是確實有違反法規的規定,畢竟還是要開單。"},{"start":6412.284,"end":6436.61,"text":"因為這之前其實也只是解決祭典的問題事實上大家還是一直收到罰單所以這個問題其實還沒有根本解決不過署長剛剛講的是只講到那個七樓地你要聽清楚我剛剛跟你講的因為我們是城鄉城市地區都是七樓在停摩車或是什麼之類的但是在鄉下地方它其實就是鄉間的道路甚至中間沒有花分隔線那一種"},{"start":6438.05,"end":6439.271,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中"},{"start":6454.638,"end":6481.045,"text":"這一個狀況是不是有可能可以請交通部部長來輔導我們地方政府比照你現在講說臨時停車150公尺到100公尺之間劃10%的黃線是不是針對這個部分我們可以重新來檢討不然現在地方政府都把事情推給中央所謂中央法院就這樣訂道路規範、車系規範、過路所定就是這樣所以我一定要這樣照做我們的標線要怎麼劃都是中央的法律"},{"start":6482.219,"end":6492.715,"text":"所以說這個台新的部分在城鄉的差距上面我們認為你們要實際想想去了解一下因為聽你們講其實我覺得你們都在都市裡面對不起王部長"},{"start":6494.066,"end":6514.324,"text":"跟我們報告的確執法裡面有很多震動期然後因為太急促的確有很多的民怨發生那我們最近就是剛才談到的包括一些這個違體裡面先暫停祭典還包括歧弱暫停祭典這個已經公佈了在我們採訪這個細則裡面已經公佈了"},{"start":6517.748,"end":6535.207,"text":"現在我們另外就剛才談到7樓的課題我們事實上發函給各地方政府現在0點到6點這是可以停在7樓目前是這樣那我們也覺得如果鄉下地區地方政府可以前移比如說從這個8點到隔天的幾點"},{"start":6538.33,"end":6552.758,"text":"我是覺得的確有城鄉上面的因地制宜的一個辦法我想說針對最近的一些大家感受到的包括捲舉的一些這些亂象事實上我們內部也做了很多的討論那現在會針對財務細則第12條"},{"start":6556.92,"end":6575.075,"text":"因為在裁判系的12條是說不影響交通的不舉法這意思說剛才談到的這些狀況如果它真的不影響交通甚至剛才有談到這個什麼身障車在停的等等的事實上在裁判系的12條裡面有一些"},{"start":6576.376,"end":6597.306,"text":"如果不影響交通可以不舉花所以我們現在大概以這樣的一個重點希望說能夠降低這樣的一個衝擊但是的確過去這段時間的效果是有出來就是我們7、8、9三個月的大量死亡率下降但是的確影響的部分我想說我們這邊會這個持續來討論來調整"},{"start":6601.513,"end":6628.93,"text":"好那另外就是剛剛你講還是回來講七樓那我意思是說因為我們是說在比較城市的地方黃線都可以開放晚上夜間停車對不對那就鄉下的道路白線它白線是道路邊界線在那種情形有沒有可能在法令上容許這樣的情形其實是可以開放夜間因為現在鄉下的使用習慣都是這樣"},{"start":6630.191,"end":6640.727,"text":"阿你現在變成是說我們如果說你說阿會不會妨礙交通呢其實也很難講對不對你再用到道路的路面算不算妨礙交通但是你黃線都可以停喔"},{"start":6641.999,"end":6665.151,"text":"所以這個部分請你們去研議跟地方政府好好討論因為我們有很多個案都在面臨這樣子的一個情形主要是這樣車道邊線旁邊是路肩所以你停在白線是停在路肩但是如果旁邊是路肩沒有那麼寬他一定會停在線上但是你如果旁邊是這個10公分的所謂"},{"start":6667.212,"end":6692.305,"text":"路面的邊線這個是可以遷移停車我想這部分也是一樣就是說中環是這樣但是在地方政府我們可以來輔導比如說他應該把適當的路邊的停車空間留下來如果不影響交通的話它事實上在這個標線標線也可以做一些調整我是覺得是本身在這個畫到底是幾公分這個可能可以做一些調整"},{"start":6693.629,"end":6715.744,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、"},{"start":6723.789,"end":6746.645,"text":"那我想要請教就是說在你們明年或是未來是交通部嗎那我記得警政署也有就是說這個停車場的P建一方面是你都市計畫內要有這個交通部這邊要有相關的規劃另外一方面是如果在興建相關的公共設施的時候如果有地下停車場的興建計畫你們也都可以補助嘛對不對"},{"start":6747.726,"end":6765.308,"text":"我們過去在前瞻裡面,未來這方面有沒有持續的計畫?我們有兩期,第一期是210後來又加61、261包括桃園也非常多,一、二十個但是它已經進了尾端,就是說該分配出去很多都已經分配完了"},{"start":6765.908,"end":6773.351,"text":"那現在唯一就是說有沒有下一期的前瞻停車場的計劃所以你們有前瞻計劃才會有嗎對對對因為這兩期都是一樣所以這是在前瞻裡面特別拿261出來還是那如果後面有的話當然我們就覺得還是可以繼續"},{"start":6783.294,"end":6807.393,"text":"一定要繼續啊因為我們剛剛講這個問題其實根本問題在那邊嘛對對對對對不對大家為什麼會亂停因為沒有停車空間過去蓋住宅也好或是在都市裡面也好第一個政府主動規劃不夠第二個我們的建商這個都把成本外部化嘛停車問題大家出戶自己解決嘛沒有內涵在自己的這個社區裡面第三個是我們現在自用車的成長太快了以前"},{"start":6808.554,"end":6834.034,"text":"一戶人價一部車、兩部車就很多了現在五、六部車以上所有的殖民一人一台這個永遠都不夠所以這個我是認為說這個政策的方向一定要持續不然你這個我們剛剛講的解決行人地獄所帶來的副作用永遠不會解決所以其實有這個部分一定要繼續繼續提出這樣的計畫我們跟行政院來爭取看下一期有沒有這個"},{"start":6834.694,"end":6836.395,"text":"好,謝謝各位,現在休息10分鐘。"},{"start":7591.548,"end":7603.039,"text":"我們繼續開會陳婉慧委員陳婉慧委員陳婉慧委員不在接下來請莊瑞雄委員質詢"},{"start":7612.257,"end":7622.909,"text":"謝謝辛苦的主席有請我的好朋友交通部王國宅王部長還有我們國土署國土署今天誰來"},{"start":7627.819,"end":7641.567,"text":"部長,我想幾個問題來請教,我們公路局總局,我先就教兩位,各位其實有沒有在我們台灣各個角落,"},{"start":7643.368,"end":7644.409,"text":"警察、警察、警察、警察、警察、"},{"start":7662.003,"end":7666.485,"text":"機動車輛的部分佔1452萬輛,有62%都是機車。這樣的一個用代步交通的工具,在各個市區道路的設計,對整個機車族來看都不太友善。"},{"start":7684.013,"end":7706.127,"text":"我等一下讓部長來看看那今天本期想聚焦在整個道路標線的一個防滑係數的一個問題這個我們國土署這個地方標線的一個性能優劣其實對道路使用者對交通安全都有直接的一個相關性那其中最為重要兩項之一提升你道路的一個標線的一個抗滑的抗滑性能讓我們這個騎機車的人因為騎機車畢竟有那麼多那"},{"start":7712.01,"end":7739.322,"text":"那讓那個怎樣去提升它的一個安全有足夠的一個摩擦力進行安全平穩的一個行駛那另外一樣就是確保道路標線的反光性的一個問題讓所有車輛的駕駛人可以在夜間的環境背景之下那依靠這個車燈照明跟那個標線反光的搭配來引導整個道路範圍跟行駛的一個方向那我介紹很多機車族的一個澄清"},{"start":7740.362,"end":7759.068,"text":"那也就是說大家來反映的就是說在我們國家裡面我們的路面的道路的標線真好只要輪胎壓到了一個標線很容易去滑倒同時很多數據的一個佐證我看交通部跟警政署的統計裡面從107年起107年機車自摔的案件就2萬6千件"},{"start":7767.81,"end":7794.043,"text":"111年已經飆升到3萬多件雖然會造成自摔的原因有很多但是你也不得不去承認這也是影響的一個重要的因素之一那整個道路標線緩滑的部分我想從兩個層面來做一個解析就是說第一個路面標線緩滑的一個係數第二個就是如何把道路的一個標線劃在柏油路上你怎麼去劃"},{"start":7795.123,"end":7815.855,"text":"那國土署已經我看已經發文去把這個將標線施工的一個規範做修正就是你道路標線的一個抗滑的係數去做一個提高市區的道路你們說現在要提到就是65BPM非市區的道路你也建議提升到50BPM那你怎麼樣去劃這個標線你說比起將緩滑係數提高"},{"start":7819.737,"end":7842.387,"text":"如果要根本性的解決標線很滑的一個問題材質跟畫法是一個非常重要的一個考量點我們現在台灣不一定我們現在台灣我們現在在做法就是說用那個熱氮漆這個好像是用貼膠布一樣你看這個就把它貼在路上一樣路面還會凸起一塊起來甚至還會有吊漆你看這個就會有吊漆的現況"},{"start":7843.627,"end":7857.929,"text":"那我們去看其他的國家你看隔壁的日本他們就採取的作用是用噴射式的施作的一個方法那當然錢會比較多啦但確實也跟地面去做貼合還有達到反觀跟緩緩的一個效用"},{"start":7859.291,"end":7873.524,"text":"臺灣的機車這麼多又一個我們常常會怕落後路面的一個標線是黃華的一個重中之重要確保民眾用路的安全所以我在這邊我們營建署、國土署這個地方"},{"start":7876.667,"end":7894.833,"text":"這個我也曾經要求過就是上次說車道瘦身的一個建議那你現在的一個政策的一個工具在道路品質的一個提升跟審查會議當中你們直接針對這個整個道路的標線施作方法你們有沒有可能去做一個強制的一個要求"},{"start":7896.868,"end":7913.403,"text":"我先回答,交通部的公路系統的部分,過去是45BPM,現在大概都是55以上當然往上提就是剛才談到65BPM這第一個,那我想說在機車組摔倒的部分有些是不平"},{"start":7914.184,"end":7933.521,"text":"路不平或是說這個人孔蓋人孔蓋這個突出那現在我們也在公華裡面都是把它下降跟路面幾乎都是平的所以大概有幾項就是說路面的一些人孔蓋還有包括這個這個我們標畫這個標線的環劃係數這部分都要注意我想現在在我們公務系統大概都是朝這個方面在提升"},{"start":7941.487,"end":7959.746,"text":"編譯一下啦,因為騎機車的人畢竟是真的是那麼多啦那我那個國土署這邊請回那我再請一下我看這個應該要來問一下我繼續問好了,這個交通部這個地方就可以了我們根據大陸交通標誌的一個號誌的一個設置的一個規則"},{"start":7964.13,"end":7988.729,"text":"我們畫那個潮劃線的目的我們是用來引導車輛駕駛人跟指示的路線的一個行駛你畫設在交叉路口還有立體交叉的一個紮道口跟其他特殊的一個地點這個都涉及到整個交通的一個執法的問題這我就不用叫警政署起來了太油了但是我要請教我們部長的就是說你看我們現行的潮劃線你看有三種你說單時限的"},{"start":7991.371,"end":8003.802,"text":"或者說像那種歪線圖上你們這種歪線型的還有斜紋的這三種你按照法規的一股規定現在有的潮汗線那些都禁止去跨越跟停我的車有時候這樣被那些潮汗線跪下"},{"start":8006.764,"end":8007.845,"text":"這張圖在雲林的道路上"},{"start":8032.598,"end":8056.33,"text":"你這個為了提醒駕駛前面你要左轉車道所以你劃了這個潮化線在內側的一個車道裡面那這就很怪啦你看這個圖裡面你就根據潮化線你是不能去跨越的所以我要左轉的車我要先切到直行車道再迴轉到左車道這個好怪所以引起批評那我們公路局這個地方喔到最後你們就把它撤掉了對不對就是說"},{"start":8058.231,"end":8079.888,"text":"你為了邏輯你很奇怪你知道嗎你為了之後我不能看月我看月之後我叫你開發單叫你發錢之後人家把你幹掉之後你就要去把他紅掉所以你們這個真的要特別小心啦那另外第二個喔你看發生在嘉義市的這個是更好玩啦你看你的機車是兩段左轉前你先有一個潮話線"},{"start":8081.229,"end":8090.416,"text":"你們就在製造陷阱嘛你們這個製造陷阱嘛你要去停、要去停等區的一個駕駛你可有可能沒去搞到那個鎖啊?結果就是要問你,警政署王明昭署長的你不用站也沒關係,在聽的就是說他找這種,你看問部長跟局長在這裡啊?你們在鎖威威的以後齁我如果說水,氣這樣搞到以後,以後你開多大啊?啊幾個月以後你們現在就想說這沒道理,要把它給撤除掉"},{"start":8109.921,"end":8137.14,"text":"這都民怨啦,對不對?這真的都民怨,這真的要特別去做一個注意啦而且你看喔,現在法規上的盲點就是說我們法規上禁止跨越,或者去在那邊停否則的話,一定會收到罰單但是你這個潮劃線的作用是為了引導車輛的行駛你當然是屬於一個必要的一個標線你去把它塗銷,你又有安全上的一個餘率這要怎麼平衡?來,我要想想,這要怎麼平衡?"},{"start":8140.541,"end":8165.57,"text":"事實上在漸變段它應該是長距離的漸變像你今天左邊這一個是到它變了以後才讓它換方向您就是沒有辦法直接檢查過,我不知道你要去引導嗎但是它這個引導太短了它應該是在前面就開始長距離的漸變同樣一樣,所以我想說最近我有請我們的應援所對地方政府的交通單位做一些訓練"},{"start":8166.71,"end":8184.569,"text":"就是在畫這些標線的時候,有些人不知道,他覺得說我這麼不合格,所以有些黃線在,但是他不知道過來的人為了避免這個或是會這個促使他去違規,所以我想這部分我們來跟地方政府做一些這個訓練,這個之後我們來處理。這個真的要特別小心。"},{"start":8185.49,"end":8210.536,"text":"你們都組長做得保證也好、做得確定也好,你們沒有機會自己去開車的一般市民、一般的民眾車自己開、摩托車自己騎,他感受會特別深刻你這個都製造陷阱啦,要不然我們覺得人家批評了,我們去把他弄掉這個我認為這個不對,你去看英國,我特別去看英國的例子他潮話線,你看他們就分成,他允許穿越捏"},{"start":8211.616,"end":8228.235,"text":"阿嘎有一種是允許穿越一種是禁止穿越的兩種他就用虛線跟實現來做分界實現了潮汗線我就不可以穿越虛線的部分就容許我去做一個穿越我們鄰近的國家日本也是採用這樣的一個規定"},{"start":8229.096,"end":8254.313,"text":"所以他們的潮話線也是分為有的是可以穿越的我們是不能穿越的啊我們這裡是全部都不能穿越啊穿越之後就開發大啊現在黃焦焦的之後就開始越來越多這個邏輯我是覺得我們應該是好好地去再精進一下可以穿越的它用白線的實現來包圍整個潮話線那不可以穿越的它用黃色來包圍啦所以本席認為這兩個設計的一個理念喔"},{"start":8259.556,"end":8273.127,"text":"日本也好他們這樣的一個設計的一個理念我可以同時兼顧就引導整個車輛跟提升交通的一個效率那也最主要也不會讓民眾去處罰啦所以我是覺得不對這個今天你既然來了"},{"start":8274.249,"end":8276.87,"text":"麻煩帶回去研究一下。"},{"start":8296.557,"end":8323.171,"text":"一般的民眾都會碰到這個問題那剛好人家英國也這樣做隔壁的日本也這樣做那這個設計也符合交通引導跟交通整個安全引導方向的一個理念那我們有必要再去精進好不好部長我們持續進進我想說另外一個就是說這個我們標誌標線號誌設置規則有規定但是有些地方在執行的時候他誤用了誤用他的精神"},{"start":8324.071,"end":8336.245,"text":"所以我想說這部分我們來跟地方溝通是,啊也要宣導啦是是是從精進料啊也要宣導不然你讓,搞不好我們現在的警察同仁他們在執法的時候他們就認為啊,法律就是這樣規定啊好好不好,OK謝謝,好謝謝委員"},{"start":8343.498,"end":8355.984,"text":"對齁,因為我們很多警察執法的時候,就會面對這些困擾,對,要...你用幾十張喔?所以你不用請我吃飯,好,謝謝,來,好,接下來請陳嬌華委員質詢。好,謝謝主席,我們請兩位部長。林部長、王部長請。"},{"start":8375.677,"end":8378.105,"text":"好,我先請教那個王部長"},{"start":8379.793,"end":8409.079,"text":"先前在宜蘭新澳隧道發生車輛追撞嚴重事故導致一死11輕重傷後來網路上有人翻出殺死車駕駛的所屬公司遭開了18張的罰單記錄那也代表我們駕駛行為早就成為公路上嚴重的未報彈那請問部長這樣的累犯駕駛該如何來輔導及要求"},{"start":8409.599,"end":8414.593,"text":"另外、運輸公司對其駕駛的監督責任如何被納入。"},{"start":8416.867,"end":8440.176,"text":"我們事實上對於我們的酒單藝術會有評鑑的制度那的確這一家公司它是很多車輛那評鑑的結果不是那麼差但是對於這個駕駛當然是處罰條例該怎麼處罰就處罰然後如果在它的駕駛很多人都換錯這在我們評鑑裡面會按照公路法來對公司加以懲處這樣是"},{"start":8441.618,"end":8460.133,"text":"部長就是說在交通委員會我也質詢過就是我們針對大型車的這個駕駛的輔導那我剛剛是做輔導但是部長我們交通部的思維好像還是停留在怎麼去管理怎麼去處罰"},{"start":8461.687,"end":8490.829,"text":"但是因為現在我們感受不到我們的駕駛在執勤的時候有那種幸福的感覺的時候就是會容易出狀況那如果我們不重視這個情況會越來越嚴重所以還是要請部長能夠去思考如何讓我們的駕駛感受到幸福快樂然後在工作的時候能夠反映在這個態度上面然後這樣就可以減少事故"},{"start":8491.57,"end":8510.947,"text":"不然交通部如果你的思維還是停留在怎麼管理面、處罰面這個還是會出問題而且不會改善那另外有關那個延緩祭典那交通部我們看到暫緩祭典好像是來解決眼前的爭議而已那行人定義這樣的問題還是會持續上演"},{"start":8514.21,"end":8529.777,"text":"整個人本交通在談是處理到整個用路人的權益那今天如果只是犧牲單一個用路族群來犧牲其他用路人的權益那就沒有跟相關路權跟行人團體進行討論的話那這樣的問題還是很嚴重所以面對計程車的計點爭議那我們要怎麼來通盤檢討還有"},{"start":8541.983,"end":8567.945,"text":"可以提出比較具體的處理方式呢?事實上這個630的新制所產生當然在交通安全的改善很有成效那的確就是說當地方的林庭抽屍還沒做好以前也造成很多包括計程車業者他們怕所以配套還沒做好嗎?交通部還沒準備好?"},{"start":8568.545,"end":8579.71,"text":"不是沒怎樣就是說這個的確我們當時包括委員也提了很多的修正那當時的婚委的確我們就覺得應該這樣做但是的確現在實施了有這樣的狀況我們現在大概先暫停檢討一下這樣嗎就是劃緩照劃但是暫停祭典因為影響他的這個生計好那部長什麼時候可以來完全能夠來開始又恢復執行了"},{"start":8597.319,"end":8622.365,"text":"現在這樣就是地方政府準備好了那當然我們現在也建議給他一個時間點就三個月內優先路段先做明年六月這個全線都做完那明年六月明年六月就因為他們福利很大那我們去福島也包括相關經費的支持我們一起來把真正一個領頂好的環境把它創造出來這樣好那"},{"start":8623.425,"end":8641.313,"text":"就是說這個問題的解決的確是需要靠部長還有我們整個交通部的智慧怎麼來解決這些問題那再來請問林部長現在就是有關人行道的部分那本席辦公室也接到民眾陳情就是說舉發機車圍停人行道在臺北市處理就是不予舉發因為"},{"start":8649.317,"end":8674.74,"text":"陳其仁他沒有檢附禁止騎樓人行到停車的牌面那請問就是我們現在的制度及各縣市的自治條例的差異民眾在舉發人行到車輛圍停還要先看看附近有沒有禁止騎樓人行到停車的牌面那如果沒有拍到這種牌面的話警察"},{"start":8676.041,"end":8703.502,"text":"這邊就不會處理,警察局就不會處理了嗎?那目前各縣市是不是都會有這樣的情況?那我們怎麼來處理?就是人行道危停,然後這個舉發,或者是因為人行道如果危停也會造成民眾沒有辦法來走,所以就會造成這個走到這個車道上面造成危險。所以內政部怎麼來看待這個事情?"},{"start":8710.663,"end":8729.01,"text":"這個還是請警政署長這個其實是對,這是臺北市的那個自治條例那各縣市是怎麼來處理是不是都需要有拍到這個禁止騎樓人行到停車牌面才會執勤呢其他的縣市應該是沒有"},{"start":8731.294,"end":8758.171,"text":"那臺北市可以這樣做嗎?你要舉法一定要拍到這樣子的牌面,這樣子適當嗎?這是臺北市的自治條例,他們透過市議會的立法的一個程序所以中央不會去,就是去,中央就同意嗎?地方的自治條例中央就沒有意見嗎?是這樣嗎?不是,如果是屬於它自治的範圍裡面,它地方政府的確是可以透過法治的一個程序是這樣嗎?"},{"start":8760.53,"end":8783.901,"text":"他如果沒有違反中央的法令的話﹐地方是可以訂自治條例沒有違反嗎因為那個騎樓的管理﹐他們在自治條例裡面﹐比如說可以停機車、停什麼﹐這個是他們的因為中央沒有訂﹐所以地方就沒有違反﹐是不是這個樣子沒有﹐就是說有些﹐中央該不該有些彈性是留給地方"},{"start":8784.141,"end":8812.359,"text":"所以我們一直在談交通安全基本法是不是要把這個定清楚包括中央包括內政部要去重視這個問題啊那現在內政部因為沒有定所以地方自治條例你們就沒有沒有辦法去反對那內政部這邊要怎麼處理?騎樓的停車的確需要有一些因地制宜的作為那人行道呢?人行道就是包括交通部、內政部應該都有管理嘛"},{"start":8813.511,"end":8831.913,"text":"那你們要不要訂定相關的規定因為這個問題跟行人遞運的這個問題是相關的應該是騎樓吧我覺得人行道我還沒看過人行道去可以允許人行道停車我還沒有看到這一個應該是騎樓啦騎樓的部分騎樓是人行道的一部分"},{"start":8832.233,"end":8854.8,"text":"所以人行道本來就不能停車對不對那人行道不能停車那現在人行道不能停車為什麼在禁止騎樓人行道停車我們舉發了卻被地方的自治條例去否決掉那內政部這個部分是內政部主責你怎麼可以同意這樣子的自治條例呢"},{"start":8857.254,"end":8883.222,"text":"這的確地方有一些他對於他棋樓的一個他的遷移措施那我知道有的地方是叫做正面表就是公布說這裡可以停有的是這裡不能停他看起來是這個不能停來準備好那今天這個機會就是內政部、交通部兩位部長因為我們還是要去知道就是沒有這個"},{"start":8885.403,"end":8912.922,"text":"這個通行無阻的人行道,我們先不講騎樓,我們其實是會影響安全,交通安全也是會影響人本交通,還有觀光,其實都是這個會連帶的受到影響,所以我要請教就是我們內政部警政署,我們剛剛提到人行道的這個舉發違規,那我們未來怎麼來落實行人優先交通安全綱領,我們怎麼來落實?"},{"start":8917.125,"end":8942.927,"text":"配合這個選舉優先的政策那當然警政部門會對這個防害行人安全的這些違規四大項目會加強的積查來取締以為這個安全那當然有一些一些比較便民的部分就是沒有嚴重違規防害人車通行的像包括在騎樓地停車的部分"},{"start":8943.847,"end":8951.29,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、"},{"start":8965.876,"end":8986.423,"text":"這個才會去處罰嗎?這個就是像我們在民眾卷舉的我們一定要要求他要附那個照片或影像那影像照片就要有足以妨礙人車通行的部分能顯示出來才會告發那這個臺北市的自治條例也就是根據那個精神來訂定他們自治條例"},{"start":8987.674,"end":9006.319,"text":"那各縣市如果舉發沒有因為根本沒有例啊它如果沒有全面去設置而且這個設置其實也是妨礙交通或者是妨礙站觀嘛對不對如果我們廣為設置那這個自治條例的確是有一些爭議啦所以在這裡就是請內政部要檢討可以嗎我們再研議看看啦"},{"start":9010.882,"end":9038.28,"text":"好,那再來就是在科技執法的部分那近年來各地方政府為了加強交通管理的績效那不少路段實施科技執法那審計部近日也調查全國28個連續3年一造勢路段中有7處是科技執法設備與當地的造勢主因不同所以要求交通部要督促改善"},{"start":9039.08,"end":9056.346,"text":"所以為了協助警察取締違規行為交通部從2019年有補助地方政府構置這些科技執法的設備但是部長對於科技執法設置的補助交通部到底有沒有督促地方政府針對"},{"start":9057.466,"end":9072.342,"text":"造勢熱點或者是造勢主因．還有對於地方政府規劃設置不適當的科技執法的設備交通部有沒有縮減或取消補助金的這些追回的機制"},{"start":9072.844,"end":9096.314,"text":"我跟委員報告,這個交通部補助是少數現在的勁威很多都是在這個警政署這一邊那的確就是說,肇事熱點跟違規的熱點有時候不大一樣所以我想說,他們有他們的評估,比如說雖然沒有肇事,但是違規很多的他們可以用科技執法的一個設備好,那本席建議我們交通部要做一個調查好嗎?"},{"start":9097.534,"end":9098.555,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例72條第二項有提到科學的儀器"},{"start":9118.921,"end":9136.128,"text":"屬因經定情檢定、合格執法定、渡糧橫企。請問署長,彰化的警方在縣道139縣偵測抓、押車等危險駕駛行為的科技執法設備,請問這套設備有沒有通過標檢局的檢測?"},{"start":9143.999,"end":9165.989,"text":"測數設備的話都一定要經過標檢局的一個檢測那我們國會辦公室有問過標檢局標檢局說這個沒有這個不是渡良痕器不是用渡良痕器檢定檢查辦法所以不需要經過檢定那這一套執法設備是由哪一個單位實施定期的檢定"},{"start":9166.809,"end":9179.79,"text":"以未經標檢局檢驗的這些科技執法的設備進行執法,無法確保設備信效度的情況下,就是人民受害。我們希望來要檢討。"},{"start":9182.295,"end":9201.18,"text":"我瞭解我們的測速設備是有檢定的,那到底是什麼時候檢定的?本席提出來就是希望相關的科技執法還有這些設備是不是符合標準應該警政署要做一個管控的那個"},{"start":9202.95,"end":9203.43,"text":"計劃,來符合這個標準。"},{"start":9228.906,"end":9252.465,"text":"我們執法不管工具或者是法律規章都要非常明確要依法行政所以這個不管是在什麼執行任何法令上面都應該做到這一點接下來請陳培宇委員質詢好謝謝主席那有請內政部長跟交通部長兩位部長請謝謝部長"},{"start":9258.153,"end":9284.468,"text":"兩位部長好我想就快速跟部長討論關於通學步道我們要說其實在今年我們看一下校園周邊校園周邊暨行車安全道路改善計畫辦公室跟你們調資料從5月底的執行率沒有過半到7月底達到了86%那到現在為止就我們的認知看這個資料款項已經全數分配完畢"},{"start":9285.268,"end":9308.161,"text":"那這個部分我要再次感謝兩位部長在這件事情上我相信應該是非常的積極協助地方政府盤點通學步道協助學校完善道路但是我也很想問就是在今年的預算之後應該全台灣3000多所國中小應該還沒有機會完全完成這個通學道路的改善不知道這個部分兩位部長在後續的規劃上有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":9309.793,"end":9322.466,"text":"我想這有幾個部分第一個是在我們內政部提升道路品質計畫裡面這個從106年的時候開始補助這個總計有2410案那中央的補助的金額是高達449億多元"},{"start":9325.109,"end":9353.793,"text":"那其中已經完成的是1807案那目前正在執行中的是603案這是第一部分第二部分是校園周邊暨行車安全道路改善的計劃就是剛剛委員特別提到的那我們是總計是補助349案那已經合配的這個金額是49.4億那未來的話就是4年400億我們會繼續的來做相關的一個改善但並不一定是"},{"start":9354.473,"end":9375.815,"text":"該委員講的3000多所的學校每一所學校都有必要我們會這個地方來做評估跟提案我們也會來進行相關的一個審議我覺得剛剛部長的回答我覺得大家應該聽了都會很放心怎麼說因為剛剛部長已經講到就會有因地制宜的問題確實我們在都會地區在意的是通學步道可是我們也認識非常多偏鄉的校長跟老師他們有跟我們提到"},{"start":9376.315,"end":9396.383,"text":"關於通學的車子的問題或是其他問題那這個問題也許後續再跟部長討論那我們今天還是要想要讓部長看一下其實這在立法院附近的這所學校我們可以看到這個學生上學這個道路上停滿了機車其實我們自己都很好奇像這樣子的學校或者是像後面這一張這是在我住家附近的一所學校那他們的狀況就是在學生出來這個大門這邊呢其實"},{"start":9399.904,"end":9400.725,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中"},{"start":9424.378,"end":9442.056,"text":"學校老師或是家長他們有沒有可能搞不清楚說這個狀況是可以改善而不要讓小孩在放學的時候例如說我自己去這個我的小孩就念這所學校我真的就親眼看過有小孩就這樣衝過馬路差點被車撞到那還好是那個小孩真的伸手非常矯健他就自己一個翻空他就翻過去了"},{"start":9443.237,"end":9468.889,"text":"我想要講的就是剛剛跟部長說我們當然知道有非常非常多預算跟計劃在進行可是我還是想要再一次拜託兩位部長把相關這個通學步道的事情還有這個臨庭的空間因為臨庭的空間我覺得也是大家非常多家長會在意的事情尤其是現在因為很多家長可能就上班就順便把小孩送去學校了可是這個臨庭空間的解決我覺得也是要拜託兩位部長持續協助地方政府做相關的盤點好嗎"},{"start":9472.939,"end":9493.881,"text":"跟我們報告一下這個其實不應該有問題因為剛剛跟你報告其實經費上面是很充足而且這個未來還有四年四百億的經費那這個可能就是必須要地方政府他積極的一個提案那這個在改善上面現在已經都有很多很好的這種案例"},{"start":9495.943,"end":9521.963,"text":"或改善的方式,包括校門口的退縮或圍牆的退縮等等,可以把原本不足的空間讓出來,讓整個通學、通行環境,包括臨時接送的上下學的空間都可以出來。這個基本上在規劃跟設計的層面,經費的部分也沒有問題,所以我們會再跟地方政府來讓他們積極的提案。"},{"start":9523.884,"end":9540.315,"text":"這個其實我們已經宣導了很久我相信地方政府應該也都充分了解就是鼓勵他們積極提案這件事情我覺得內政部跟交通部一定很有自己的態度跟立場那只是說在這個部分我覺得也可以讓更多更多家長知道內政部跟交通部在這件事情上是非常非常積極的"},{"start":9541.115,"end":9555.288,"text":"是,這個我之前還甚至直接寫信給縣市長讓縣市長直接掌握狀況那後來這個提案的一個反應都這個非常好如果委員有個案的部分也歡迎可以提出來我們不談個案"},{"start":9556.049,"end":9562.293,"text":"我相信會有跨部會的事情之後也是要持續拜託內政部跟交通部在協助地方政府在跨部會的整合上需要溝通跟討論的"},{"start":9582.305,"end":9603.636,"text":"我跟委員報告其實這不應該有問題這個現在都是我們在做整體規劃的時候一再強調的包括五大管線、電線桿耗製或者是說包括電信箱等等其實都要一併的做規劃跟處理甚至是包括收納或者是說包括地下化所以理論上不應該現在還會出現這種狀況"},{"start":9606.818,"end":9621.633,"text":"我們現在大概都是整體環境而且希望說它不只是在學校的周邊甚至可以延伸進一步到譬如說包括路口整體一個比較大的尺度跟範圍所以我一直到地方市場的時候一直強調經費是重組的然後希望地方自己規劃完整規劃案件"},{"start":9625.536,"end":9654.282,"text":"對對我相信從因為我們看內政部相關的資料跟交通部也是就是預算是充足而且大家有心要做這件事情但是也有讓地方政府也更積極的配合這個部分就在拜託內政部跟交通部那最後想要討論另外一個事情就是關於這個人權工作小組我們看到交通部其實在相關的這個未成立人權工作小組裡面交通部是被放在右邊這邊我們想要問一下部長為什麼交通部內部沒有成立人權工作小組會不會是您的幕僚在幫您評估人權工作小組的工作內容"},{"start":9654.702,"end":9656.242,"text":"可能不是跟您目前在推動的業務有關"},{"start":9674.827,"end":9698.107,"text":"那這個部分也許就請木老再跟您說那我們看到會不會是交通部您的同仁可能當您認為交通部無障礙交通環境推動小組就是符合所謂人權工作小組可是事實上在人權工作小組相關作業指引裡面其實還有很多跟交通事項有關那這部分因為我時間已經到我們之後也會再跟交通部積極討論如何在交通事務相關的事務上成立人權推動小組"},{"start":9698.687,"end":9701.508,"text":"把我們在意的人權價值落實在各個部會的行政當中"},{"start":9717,"end":9731.227,"text":"好,謝謝,因為人權很重要,用戶員的人權也很重要來,劉世芳委員、劉世芳委員、劉世芳委員不在接下來請我們交通委員會的重量級的召委陳雪生委員質詢謝謝我們召委是不是請內政部長還有警政署長林部長還有黃署長委員好部長齁"},{"start":9747.165,"end":9769.291,"text":"港務警察在馬祖有個分隊在那邊那現在也沒房子住也沒有住地我記得我當縣長的時候他們就變成孤兒了我撥了一個小小間的辦公室給他們用那麼到現在一直還沒有妥善的解決那我想了一個方法"},{"start":9770.749,"end":9796.425,"text":"這個港務警察屬於韓港嘛,對不對?韓港啊,所以我把這個韓港局局長找來了齁那你在韓港裡面的住地的安全啊,這很重要啊但是內政部警政署勒,可能整個受限於財政的困難齁那沒有編這個預算那今天正好交通部長王部長也來了齁兩位部長在這邊你們握個手啊,把問題解決齁"},{"start":9800.539,"end":9825.075,"text":"這要謝謝委員還有謝謝航港局不是,我是說現在我跟航港局講這個警察是保護我們等個港灣的安全嘛對不對但是這些警察很可憐他沒有助力沒有助力一個小辦公室那我們好不容易現在港務處的大樓撥了一小時給他們但住宿的問題卻無法解決"},{"start":9826.656,"end":9844.14,"text":"所以我現在拜託航港局在港務基金裡面、作業基金裡面、航港作業基金裡面編了一些錢這些錢也不少,也要幾千萬,不一定有錢那港務警察原來現在目前還是8個人,聽說要擴充到20個人,那個署長有沒有這回事?確實我們有討論,因為那個業務量也是在增加,勢必要增加人"},{"start":9855.831,"end":9872.665,"text":"那署長我原來也不認識他後來認識以後我發現他非常謙和跟他討論的問題他非常重視那我也表示感佩我原來也在台北市中山分局服務過14年士林分局也待過4年多"},{"start":9873.746,"end":9899.196,"text":"那我對警察的特性也非常了解那我是拜託署長還有部長好不好這一方面能夠跟那個我們交通部長王部長你不要假裝沒聽到嘛請你上來好不好這個我要問你要不要答應這件事情我跟你講齁,航港局局長大概內部有開過會了今天沒有來嘛齁你說什麼"},{"start":9902.537,"end":9926.044,"text":"朱祐雄說你要求他們要加倍的承諾你講什麼?暗戰?好不是我怕我替警察我們以前沒有警察自由會我們現在縣長、議長都在發動警察自由會可能因為我的關係因為我以前在警察單位待過"},{"start":9927.096,"end":9945.223,"text":"部長,這個問題你能夠答應內政部嗎?我支持,我們提供這個,我覺得他也是我們的一部份王國產人非常好,王國產部長人非常好他在交通委員會他自己不來開會請假,跑到內政委員會我覺得很好笑對內政委員會的尊重"},{"start":9948.837,"end":9967.703,"text":"沒有我們警察支持交通安全那王部長你請回,我想你也答應了嘛那我們內政部長是不是跟部長感謝一下好不好你一毛錢都不要出欸還有那個楊一鳴這要謝謝委員,也謝謝王部長楊一鳴現在是校長還是署長校長"},{"start":9975.819,"end":9986.429,"text":"我跟各位報告,楊雲明校長,我在中山分局當會計主任,他是刑事組長他接那個侯友宜,侯友宜也是我的老同事"},{"start":9987.891,"end":10009.361,"text":"當然楊雲明校長為人非常的好,我也拜託我們內政委會召委預算不要去動他,幫忙你再幫忙喊一下,因為今天早上部長才答應要另外再幫他籌將近一千八百一億對,九千萬的我們楊雲明校長很有作為,我今天正好有這個機會"},{"start":10010.731,"end":10037.859,"text":"看到我們老同事在這邊非常高興楊下你請回下次有請客吃飯要找我不要忘了我我好久跟他沒有碰面了大家各邊前程大概都有蠻好的結果部長謝謝還有就是我們的殯葬業務是你們管轄的範圍對殯葬業務也是內政部我們南竿的公墓民眾公墓署長你請回沒事"},{"start":10040.269,"end":10045.842,"text":"殯葬的業務已經人滿為患,沒地方買,那麼縣政府可能會有公文來"},{"start":10047.921,"end":10076.278,"text":"公文來我來瞭解一下我想你當過地方父母官當過基隆市市長表現也非常的好那麼我也去拜訪過你幾次我們在很多公務的場合也碰到面拜託您對地方的事務多協助好不好我想地方的事務我們都會全力來支持有機會歡迎部長也另離馬祖好不好馬祖很熟我也之前當市長的時候也很多次到馬祖去交流"},{"start":10076.929,"end":10103.257,"text":"基隆跟馬祖以前等於是姊妹的縣市對我們兩邊的相處也非常好是怎麼跟部長也有很好的一個交情是那邊有關平常有拜託您我來瞭解還有就是社會住宅社會住宅我們現在已經有一處了因為我想這是蔡總統的政見對那國防部那邊現在還有一些問題那我想也協助內政部、營建署這邊"},{"start":10104.178,"end":10107.66,"text":"我會跟他們積極協調。謝謝部長。謝謝。謝謝。我們謝謝陳雪生委員來這邊替我們警察爭取福利。接下來請羅美玲召委質詢。"},{"start":10139.056,"end":10142.309,"text":"謝謝主席,有請交通部王國才部長請部長"},{"start":10149.145,"end":10166.931,"text":"編號部長好部長為了要這個嚇止酒駕的這個行為我們在111年1月24號的時候我們有修了刑法第185之3條就是來加重這個法環可是呢我們來看一下111年到112年同期"},{"start":10171.573,"end":10194.32,"text":"那這個刑法修了之後呢﹖到底這個酒駕的行為有沒有改善﹖看起來是沒有是無解反正我們從數字上面看來是這個樣子那今年的5月份呢﹖我們又修了道交條例第35條不管是吊扣駕照、吊銷駕照﹖或者是提高罰環等等"},{"start":10195.761,"end":10201.385,"text":"五月到八月,修了道交條例第35條,我們還是看到酒駕的行為還是沒有改善的。那現在怎麼辦呢?不管你怎麼罰,好像這些人都覺得"},{"start":10219.274,"end":10233.625,"text":"無所謂、無關痛療,那這個後續我們還有怎麼樣的這個做法嗎?我跟委員報告,我們的資料裡面這是事故,我們死亡的車禍是有下降,就是說那個死亡人數是曾經下降,而且"},{"start":10234.686,"end":10258.427,"text":"相關的這個績效,照我們看起來是這樣,當然就是說這個數量還是很高,但是我們事實上在酒駕在處署條例修的已經很重了,這個是非常重要的一件事。對啊,我就說已經很重了,可是呢大家好像也是乏不怕嘛,因為大概到最近我們快要聖誕節了,元旦也快到了,農曆年也快到了,那我們知道說每次到這些節日重要節日"},{"start":10258.567,"end":10282.865,"text":"接日的時候其實我們都有這個比如說有取締啦比如說我們會設一個這個酒廁的這個站啊之類的可是這也是行之有年了可是我們發現這個因為酒駕我們是零容忍那像這個酒駕當然部長應該講的是這個死亡事故我們跟你講的是整個整體上的這個因為酒駕引起的交通事故"},{"start":10284.326,"end":10308.604,"text":"怎麼修法、怎麼加重罰還其實這個酒駕的行為還是沒有改善那部長我想請教一下好像就比較希望是源頭管理像美國在2021年的時候美國國會他有敲定一個基礎建設計畫當中他有追加了一項道路運輸法案就是要求未來的新車必須要配備可防止酒駕的這個行駛的這個系統"},{"start":10310.686,"end":10317.548,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":10332.851,"end":10352.477,"text":"我現在跟委員報告我目前大概有兩個一個是當然談研討管理我們現在那個代價酒後代價是全台灣都有在做就是說我們去福島的很多包括計程車業者或是專門做酒駕這個業者所以在餐廳你如果是要叫車"},{"start":10353.737,"end":10379.04,"text":"對啦 部長你講的這部分我想國民都已經知道像代價的這個部分等等也就是說我們其實也祭出了很多的這個手段希望能夠降低這個酒駕我在講的就是說不管罰還也好各種手段也好都沒有辦法讓這個酒駕的這個交通事故的這個案件數來降低那我們想說交通部是不是可以來做的更多所以本席有看到美國他這個有做"},{"start":10379.48,"end":10379.66,"text":"事故處理機制。二、繼續審查"},{"start":10403.042,"end":10420.383,"text":"現在我們如果是酒駕他後來再重新考駕照的時候我們是規定要放酒精手對這我也覺得但是就是說如果要配搭就變成一般的這個車子的配備這個需要研究就這個要研究但是酒精手的東西在台灣已經有了"},{"start":10420.523,"end":10439.245,"text":"所以剛剛部長您講的是酒精所的部分嗎?並不是說這個系統嗎?因為《道交條例》的第35條其實裡面就有提到這個部分那所以變成說美國的這個系統就偵測說那個酒精的這個系統是不是可以來研究看看當然我們也很擔心就是會不會有誤判的這個狀況啦"},{"start":10441.514,"end":10457.458,"text":"對,這部分你們有想法嗎?還是沒有從來對面研究過?就是說,我不知道美國,跟我們應該是一樣,酒精手是一個儀器,這是一個儀器,當你呼吸,如果有酒精的這個時候,你是打開的。它是類似的系統嗎?類似,就是類似系統。所以我們現在用在這種有酒駕紀錄要重新考,"},{"start":10464.659,"end":10488.088,"text":"對,你們是事後嘛,譬如說他曾經有個記錄,那如果要重新再申請這個牌照的時候才會有嘛可是美國看起來並不是,他是未來的新車,他是必須的配備對,跟我們做的方式不一樣,我們是說你之前曾經有過酒駕車,再要重新申請這個牌照的時候才要上這個酒精所嘛,對不對"},{"start":10489.909,"end":10514.864,"text":"這個還沒有這個就是請政務部這邊來做一個研究好那再來部長我要跟您探討的就是有關於我們旅遊諮詢的這個多國語言服務的部分那昨天呢我有接待了一些來自於東南亞的一些朋友他們對於我們這個旅遊比如說像有這個清真認證的這個餐廳還有我們還有所謂的祈禱室還有在"},{"start":10515.504,"end":10536.94,"text":"比如說在旅館裡面我們有那個朝向賣家的那個sticker那個貼紙那個部分他們覺得非常的這個肯定因為東南亞有很多這個穆斯林比如說馬來西亞啦印尼有很多的穆斯林他對台灣這部分他們覺得非常覺得非常的棒比起日本、韓國我們真的是比較貼心可是對於這個多國語言的這個諮詢的部分他們覺得說台灣可以來再做加強那比如說像"},{"start":10545.646,"end":10562.78,"text":"我們在這個線上旅遊諮詢的服務我們的多國語言其實比起日本來講的話我們的語種一般上來講是不足的日本它有所謂的七種語言的服務比如說英語、中文、韓文、泰文、越南文、法文跟日本至少它有東南亞語可是我們台灣的這個語種尤其是我們"},{"start":10567.023,"end":10595.354,"text":"而隸屬於我們旅遊局的這部分他覺得我們的語種真的是比較少那再來呢,下一頁我們再來看看比如說我們到了這個頁面來看比如說我要搜尋向商我們到向商旅遊中心,我們來看的話我們的服務設施裡面全部都是中文可是你看日本的部分,他進去他介面是英文那你可以看到一般上遊客他對英文可能還是比較能夠了解可是中文可能很多人看不懂"},{"start":10595.834,"end":10600.795,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":10626.649,"end":10650.627,"text":"部長你了解我的意思嗎?我們做多國語言的這個部分好像做得不是很徹底你應該介面上面就是英文嘛,不是嗎?是這個部分的話可能要請部長這邊跟我們的相關單位來提醒一下多國語言的部分我們還是必須要製造一個友善的旅遊環境,不是嗎?這沒問題,我覺得我們現在發展觀光,國際觀光科很多元"},{"start":10651.848,"end":10675.249,"text":"包括語言不夠或是說剛剛談到的這個剛剛進去要點這個案件都不知道怎麼點所以我想這部分很謝謝委員的指教要不然他們我們一般會用自己的想法說點這個但是看不懂對就是沒有站在這個外國旅客的角度來看他說有啊我有外語服務啊喔你是這外語服務你還必須知道這外語服務這四個字是什麼意思啊"},{"start":10676.43,"end":10698.088,"text":"這個部分可能就是...我等一下趕快來改...對對對,因為這是外國朋友在反映的一些問題他說台灣對穆斯林的這部分還蠻友善的就是東南亞很多這個穆斯林朋友可是他們真的是真的看不懂一些中文他說我進去點,然後點出來竟然是這個樣子我怎麼知道哪個是我需要的服務呢好,我們馬上來改善"},{"start":10698.729,"end":10700.312,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":10712.149,"end":10727.099,"text":"因為我們觀光局所轄的這個中心裏面有三個漁種的這個旅遊服務中心它只有一個一到兩個都有56個那甚至有五個是沒有外語服務的可是我們看日本日本有三個漁種以上的這個旅遊服務中心它有50個那一到兩個的這個漁種其實有超過1000個"},{"start":10731.127,"end":10758.708,"text":"那我們再來看看我們各旅遊中心提供的這個外語服務的語言分類有什麼我們6個服務中心62個服務中心大部分都是提供英語的服務然後再來就是日文那再來就是韓語只有一個地方有提供那西班牙也只有其中一個服務中心有提供然後未提供的其實就是有5個完全都沒有所以在語種方面的話我們真的是要請觀光局這邊正式要來做加強好我請他一併來檢討是"},{"start":10759.889,"end":10760.775,"text":"好,以上謝謝,謝謝部長"},{"start":10764.592,"end":10787.964,"text":"謝謝部長部長剛剛羅昭偉提的這個是很重要的因為我們已經觀光局已經升格為觀光署可是我們的很多我們很多英文的網站我說實在我看的都蠻丟臉的那個是變成我罐頭做它I can make it我罐頭做它那種就是機械式的翻譯那個實在是不太好看這一定要費心一下好不好謝謝"},{"start":10791.938,"end":10807.605,"text":"當屆發言委員除不在場者外﹐其餘均已發言完畢﹐詢答結束﹐委員李德維、陳婉慧、林文瑞、陳玉珍、伍綠華、王美慧所提書面質詢列入記錄﹐刊登公報。書面質詢即"},{"start":10810.666,"end":10831.072,"text":"未及答覆部分,請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會。詢答結束,請今天專題報告的與會員員可以先行離席。謝謝交通部王部長,謝謝您。我們現在休息五分鐘,休息後繼續開會審查預算。"},{"start":11231.239,"end":11253.492,"text":"來,謝謝我們繼續開會我先把我剛剛那個質詢有關於那個警大的體系館跟操場的請你們先提計劃因為最快的可能當然是希望在113年的預備金但是你們還是要有計劃好嗎那個到時候部長看看能不能幫你們去爭取預備金否則的話就是要"},{"start":11254.692,"end":11263.938,"text":"提1億4年的但是這個漏水的問題還有那個操場的問題都攸關學生的安全所以都請你們盡快提計劃"},{"start":11274.54,"end":11294.839,"text":"我們內政委員會會在院長預算協商後再補題這個我們現在進行預算處理繼續審查討論事項第一案至第四案請宣讀預算書及委員提案宣讀完畢後再進行協商"},{"start":11297.091,"end":11310.155,"text":"113年度警政署及所屬稅務預算第二款罰款及平衡收入第64項警政署及所屬1192萬元第一幕罰金罰款及貸金2萬2千元第二幕賠償收入1189萬8千元第三款規費收入第56項警政署及所屬941萬4千元第一幕行政規費收入556萬元第二幕使用規費收入350"},{"start":11326.34,"end":11346.113,"text":"三百八十五萬四千元,第四款財產收入第七十八項,警政署及所屬七百四十九萬一千元,第一幕財產支息兩百七十一萬三千元,第二幕費救物資售價四百七十七萬八千元,第七款其他收入第七十七項,警政署及所屬三千九百八十六萬四千元。"},{"start":11348.051,"end":11357.237,"text":"113年度警政署及所屬稅出預算第七款內政部主管第三項警政署及所屬257億4701萬8千元第一幕一般行政187億2320萬8千元第二幕警政業務13億4837萬8千元第三幕警務管理4億2923萬9千元第四幕保安警察業務6億1846萬2千元第五幕國道警察業務3億2736萬8千元"},{"start":11377.092,"end":11385.617,"text":"第六目,刑事警察業務,14億4635萬6千元。第七目,初級警察業務,17億8770億萬元。第八目,一般建築及設備,10億1929萬7千元。第九目,第一預備金,4700萬元。113年度中央警察大學稅入預算,第二款罰款及賠償收入,第65項中央警察大學"},{"start":11401.954,"end":11402.955,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":11423.867,"end":11436.344,"text":"155萬4千元,第二幕附近物資售價23萬9千元,第七款其他收入,第78項中央警察大學987萬9千元,第一幕學杂費收入949萬1千元,第二幕雜項收入38萬3千元,"},{"start":11441.249,"end":11452.615,"text":"113年度中央警察大學稅出預算第七款內政部主管第四項中央警察大學12億1895萬6千元第一幕一般行政6億1643萬元第二幕高級警察教育6億106萬7千元第三幕第一預備金145萬9千元113年度消防署及所屬稅入預算第二款罰款及平衡收入第66項消防署及所屬50萬元第一幕罰"},{"start":11469.322,"end":11482.418,"text":"金、房、還及貸金五列數,第二目賠償收入50萬元,第三款規費收入第58項,消防署及所屬,5631萬1千元,第一目行政規費收入5631萬1千元,"},{"start":11484.96,"end":11488.203,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":11502.573,"end":11510.798,"text":"113年度消防組及所屬稅出預算第七款內政部主管第五項消防組及所屬29億7,975萬元第一幕一般行政9億1,492萬5千元第二幕消防救災業務19億5,938萬7千元"},{"start":11519.184,"end":11531.487,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中第三目港務消防業務﹐898萬4千元﹐第四目特種搜救業務﹐9301萬4千元﹐第五目一般建築及設備﹐182萬元﹐第六目地域背景﹐162萬元﹐113年度移民署稅務預算﹐第二款罰款及賠償收入﹐第68項移民署﹐"},{"start":11542.079,"end":11558.106,"text":"一千九百七十四萬八千元,第一目法金房盤及貸金三億一千七百二十一萬四千元,第二目沒入及沒收財務兩百二十萬元,第三目培養收入三十三萬四千元,第三款規備收入第六十項"},{"start":11558.846,"end":11573.689,"text":"移民署19億8743萬4千元,第一幕行政歸非收入19億8742萬2千元,第二幕使用歸非收入1萬2千元,第四款財產收入第82項移民署312萬1千元,第七款其他收入第81項移民署175萬6千元,"},{"start":11584.383,"end":11594.047,"text":"113年度移民署稅出預算第七款內政部主管第七項移民署51億7788萬1千元第一幕一般行政35億3491萬8千元第二幕入屬國籍移民管理業務16億2618萬3千元第三幕一般建築及設備1478萬元第四幕第一預備金200萬元"},{"start":11608.636,"end":11614.145,"text":"113年度空中勤務總隊稅入預算第二款罰款及賠償收入第69項空中勤務總隊400萬元第四款財產收入第84項空中勤務總隊724000元"},{"start":11622.472,"end":11631.417,"text":"第7款其他收入第83項空中勤務總隊293,000元113年度空中勤務總隊稅出預算第7款內政部主管第9項空中勤務總隊18億5198,000元第一幕一般行政4億9,037萬2千元第二幕空中勤務業務13億1,382萬6千元第三幕一般建築及設備五列事務第四幕第一預備金100萬元"},{"start":11649.528,"end":11666.113,"text":"特別收入基金內政部主管、新住民發展基金附屬單位預算一、業務計劃部分因依據基金來源與用途審查結果順通調整二、基金來源用途及預測部分基金來源4億330萬元基金用途4億2388萬6千元"},{"start":11669.294,"end":11687.304,"text":"本期短促2,058.6萬元、接繳公庫及補辦預算均無劣數、特別收入接近內政部主管、警察、消防、海巡、移民、空情人員及諧星民力安全基金附屬單位預算。義務計劃部分依依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨通調整。"},{"start":11688.044,"end":11706.862,"text":"基金來源、用途及預測部分基金來源456萬4千元、基金用途1531萬3千元本基短促1074萬9千元補繳、截料供、戶籍、補辦預算部分均無劣數內政部主管在校學生、獎學、基金、附屬單位預算"},{"start":11708.944,"end":11728.841,"text":"業務計畫部分依依據收支預測撥補等項是審查結果隨同調整。二、總收入總支出預測部分,總收入103,000元,總支出99,000元,本金剩餘4,000元,經過基金內政部主管、成員獎學基金附屬單位預算。業務工作部分依依據收支預測"},{"start":11730.969,"end":11756.783,"text":"撥補等向知審查結果隨同調整總收入總支出餘出部分總收入324,000元總支出508,000元本期短促184,000元信託基金、內政部主管、劉如生先生警察資歷、獎學基金附屬單位預算業務計劃部分依依據收支餘出撥補等向知審查結果隨同調整二、總收入總支出餘出部分總收入45,000元總支出48,000元本期短促3,000元"},{"start":11761.485,"end":11775.443,"text":"內政部主管財團法人、臺灣省義勇人員安全系駐基金會113年度預算工作計畫部分因依據收入與支出審查結果隨同調整。二、總收入總支出及預促部分總收入282萬6千元總支出552萬4千元本期短促269萬8千元"},{"start":11781.178,"end":11793.551,"text":"內政部主管、財團法人、警察、學術研究基金會113年度預算工作計劃部分因依據收入與支出審查結果隨通調整。二、總收入總支出及預出部分總收入318萬元、總支出300萬元本期剩餘18萬元。"},{"start":11797.373,"end":11811.038,"text":"內政部主管財團法人易勇消防人員安全借助基金會113年度預算工作計劃部分依依據收入與支出審查結果隨從調整。二、總收入總支出及預儲部分總收入2476,000元總支出202萬1千元本期剩餘45萬5千元。繼續宣讀提案。警政署及所屬單位預算"},{"start":11823.24,"end":11845.376,"text":"提案。稅務部分委員無相關提案。稅出部分第一幕一般行政公計五案為第一案至第五案。請務員參閱。第二幕警政業務公計十九案為第六案至第二十四案。請務員參閱。第三幕警務管理公計兩案為第25至26案。請務員參閱。第四幕保安警察業務公計三案為27至29案。請務員參閱。第五幕國道警察業務"},{"start":11851.58,"end":11876.094,"text":"共計兩案為30到31案請委員參閱。第六目,刑事警察業務共計12案為32至第43案請委員參閱。第七目,初級警察教育為只有一案為第44案請委員參閱。第八目,一般建築及設備計議案為第45案請委員參閱。第九目,地域內經委務相關提案主決議部分為"},{"start":11878.697,"end":11906.118,"text":"共計21案為第46至66案,請委員參閱。中央警察大學提案稅入部分委員無相關提案稅出部分第一幕一般行政委員無相關提案第二幕高階警察業務高階警察教育一案為張宏慧委員提案,請委員參閱。第三幕第一日備金委員無相關提案主決議部分共計三案為第二案至第四案,請委員參閱。"},{"start":11908.382,"end":11936.648,"text":"消防組及所屬提案,稅務部分為5相關提案,稅出部分第一目及四案為第1至第4案,請勿以參閱。第二目,消防救災業務共計17案為第5案至第21案,請勿以參閱。第三目,港務消防業務1案為第22案,請勿以參閱。第四目,特種搜救業務1案為第23案,請勿以參閱。第五目,一般建築及設備及第6目地域備金均為相關提案。"},{"start":11937.728,"end":11940.57,"text":"主決議部分共計時8案為第24至第41案請委員參閱。移民署單位提案彙整表"},{"start":11950.454,"end":11970.09,"text":"稅務部分委員會相關提案、稅出部分、一般行政共計4案為第1案至第4案請委員參閱。第二幕,輸入國際移民管理業務共計13案為第5案至第17案請委員參閱。第三幕,一般建築及設備及第4幕第一預備經營委員會相關提案。主決議部分共計6案為第18案至第23案請委員參閱。公正勤務總隊"},{"start":11974.318,"end":11993.55,"text":"提案彙整表,稅務部份為無相關提案,稅務部份第一幕一般行政委員無相關提案,第二幕公眾勤務業務共計四案為第一案之第四案,請委員參閱。第三幕一般建築及設備及第四幕第一預備金委員均無相關提案,主決議部份計兩案為第五案之第六案,請委員參閱。"},{"start":11995.586,"end":12010.135,"text":"新住民發展基金附屬單位預算提案部分,基金來源為無相關提案,基金用途為有一案,請委員參閱。主決議部分,共計四案為第二案次第五案,請委員參閱。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":12017.864,"end":12025.492,"text":"本次會議議程所列有關處理113年度之預算統一作以下三點宣告一、有關各位委員之提案為時討論聚焦"},{"start":12028.927,"end":12056.139,"text":"一、預算科目編排稅務部分引向為單位稅出部分原例處理到目之科目為原則提案委員如有提出凍結相關預算者出有委員特別聲明意義外解凍條件均因例改為向本委員會提出書面報告後使得凍之處理預算提案時如提案委員不在場一、召委會議共事該提案不再處理"},{"start":12057.379,"end":12074.458,"text":"違如該案與協商前相關部會已跟提案委員完成溝通將書面送至本委員會及該溝通結果處理以上宣告請問在場委員有無異議?好,通過那我們現在開始進行協商"},{"start":12107.642,"end":12120.801,"text":"不過在協商之前我還是請部長還有會計長可以幫我們一個忙因為可能事先要先跟主計長那邊說明一下我們警消機關警消移民機關其實"},{"start":12124.185,"end":12145.442,"text":"預算都非常少,大部分都是人事費所以他們每次捅刪,尤其像還有警大這些機關每次那個行政費用捅刪的時候都造成他們非常困難那這一部分,到時候是不是部長可以去爭取一下這幾年主義總署沒有通餐,這個需求沒有通餐,確定沒有"},{"start":12150.66,"end":12156.189,"text":"通商5%的那個昨天我去考察警大的是不是"},{"start":12165.548,"end":12194.17,"text":"那個立法委員有在通山的部分齁那個隔一個年度他也會把那個錢還回來確定從去年開始因為昨天我請那個警大給我試算齁他說照去年的通山的這個比例的話他們明年預算要少要1400多萬齁我覺得這個對於你可能對於速發部來講齁那個只是他的領角的領角但是對於警察大學他們整個第二預備金只不過是100多萬而已齁"},{"start":12195.331,"end":12220.396,"text":"第一例背景,第一例背景只有100多案而已,非常非常辛苦所以我的建議,因為我是昨天到警大這邊,他們提醒之後我才覺得因為警察機關也是如此,所以就是請會計長幫我們幫我們跟主計總處這個先提醒一下,我當然在這個院長協商的時候,我也會去我也會去喊啦,不過我覺得這個事情,因為我們"},{"start":12221.896,"end":12245.524,"text":"難得碰到一個史上最捍衛警消權益的部長我覺得我這麼提我知道部長應該完全了解我在講些什麼這種各部會統聲你像速發部、交通部可能都還比較容易對我們警消這種勤務機關和移民這些都很困難好不好先放下去來我們現在開始"},{"start":12260.17,"end":12275.696,"text":"113年度中央政府總預算案有關警政署及所屬及所屬單位預算協商警政署及所屬單位預算稅務部分委員無相關提案預算造列"},{"start":12277.239,"end":12302.318,"text":"最初部分第一幕第二、三、五案已經改了主決議張宏祿委員不在所以不凍結、不處理好不好我本來就是主決議等一下,我要先說明一下我第一案"},{"start":12308.199,"end":12312.781,"text":"警察特考改革案,改組決議。"},{"start":12339.643,"end":12347.371,"text":"第1目一般行政第4案不處理第1、2、3、5案改組決議"},{"start":12350.472,"end":12379.385,"text":"第二幕但是我還是希望我們警政署對於因為我這裡面所提的幾個主決議包括對於我們那個退伍的那個就是他們入伍的年資的計算還有這個特考的改革以及我們那個聯作制度的聯作制度是在下一個下一個再講"},{"start":12380.345,"end":12383.228,"text":"第16案、第7案、第8案、第13案、第14案、第20至22案、第24案改組決議"},{"start":12402.026,"end":12406.67,"text":"以改組決議。無立法委員都已經改組決議。"},{"start":12420.581,"end":12447.373,"text":"謝謝主席本期在這個節目是10、11、12、3案那其實這3案都有一些共同點之前其實在巡查的時候我有跟部長還有署長這邊有講到過就是說像我們第10案的部分也是本班自己有接到民眾的投訴那因為保護當事人個資所以這個公開場合不多說不過其實比較相關的細節我們其實事前也有跟警政署這邊有去溝通過"},{"start":12449.094,"end":12470.508,"text":"那我覺得第一個就是說因為其實我們現在時代不斷的是在演進那這個價值觀也是不斷的在閃遞尤其是這個針對性傾向、人權、保障等等的所以我覺得這個部分的話我還是希望就是說可以看到我們所裡針對比如說我們針對基層的員警因為畢竟基層員警就是會第一線遇到民眾的人"},{"start":12472.309,"end":12487.222,"text":"對於這種LGBT等多元性別的要怎麼去應該要有一個正確的應對態度或正確的觀念這個部分我還是希望可以看到署理來報告一下有書面報告說要怎麼去做這件事情"},{"start":12487.842,"end":12515.077,"text":"那第11案其實也是類似的狀況啦就是說因為大家也知道說像我們有關這個賀子興私命相外流的法規也都是在我們這一階通過的所以其實有不少的警察同仁可能自己都不熟悉說我們如果今天受害者來求助的話我第一線到底可以有什麼樣的東西去什麼樣的這個工具去讓受害者可以來使用那像我們就有遇到就是個案被遇到說"},{"start":12516.218,"end":12534.999,"text":"不知道、不會相關的技術或者是說他遇到的狀況這個網站是架設在國外可是其實我們現在的這個法規範裡面還有管道上面是有辦法去協助他們下架的所以這個部分也是一樣我希望警政署可以跟我報告說針對這個部分我們員警職員的訓練到底要如何去警警"},{"start":12535.68,"end":12560.449,"text":"那第12案其實也是一樣的狀況就是說跟少法也是在22年6月的時候才實施的那我自己看到說有蠻多這個第一線的員警對於法規尤其是這個性與性別的要件解釋上面是相對的比較限縮的那導致就是說民眾第一線即時需要協助的時候可能沒有得到妥善的協助跟處置"},{"start":12561.349,"end":12579.849,"text":"所以當然新法規上路會有了解的作業期但是我覺得這個東西其實也實施了一陣子那實務上還是有出現這種認知錯誤的狀況那也是一樣我覺得教育上要再加強所以這三案的話今兒我不堅持但我希望可以就是凍結那要如何去凍結也許等一下可以討論一起來討論"},{"start":12582.472,"end":12583.893,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":12608.013,"end":12624.748,"text":"但是這個金額上面我是這個案子基本上大概警政署的案子我很多都改成主決案只有這個案子我不願意改的原因是因為我覺得我們警察的行政責任制度應該要合理化"},{"start":12625.208,"end":12634.494,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":12643.059,"end":12662.857,"text":"實在是不應該啦除非你證明他真的跟那個長官是有責任的我覺得沒有道理是一個警員出事一直往上拉那像現在我們最近常常看到有一些弊端、弊案出來我們是不是要上綱到什麼院長或者總統這個是沒有道理的就讓各自行為人自己負責所以這部分"},{"start":12668.782,"end":12671.223,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及所屬"},{"start":12692.079,"end":12693.22,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":12716.238,"end":12720.983,"text":"15至18、23案委員提案合併處理並案凍結30萬元,向本會提出書面報告後,使得動之。"},{"start":12732.698,"end":12758.873,"text":"現在處理第三幕警務管理張宏立委員不處理第二十五案不處理第二十六案測案預算照列第三幕警務管理第二十五案不處理第二十六案測案預算照列第四幕保安警察業務"},{"start":12763.978,"end":12786.03,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二十七案、二十九案改組決議、二十八案不處理五、國道警察業務、三十案不處理、三十一案改組決議、六、刑事警察業務、"},{"start":12789.684,"end":12814.21,"text":"第三十八案、三十九案、四十案、四十二案、測案第三十二案、三十三案、三十四案、三十七案、四十一案、四十三案改組決議。黃士傑委員的。黃士傑委員,這樣啦,這個刑事警察也有支持啦,但是這個凍結20萬好不好?書面,可以嗎?"},{"start":12818.482,"end":12826.305,"text":"二十萬,好不好?可以嗎?那個刑事局?刑事局?還是要改組決議?改組決議,好不好?就只剩二案了,因為那個紅路的已經沒有處理了。改組決議,好不好?好,來!"},{"start":12840.933,"end":12843.836,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":12867.073,"end":12891.834,"text":"初級警察教育第44案不處理第8目一般建築及設備第45案不處理第9目第一預備金委員無相關提案預算照列主決議全部都已經溝通好了"},{"start":12898.925,"end":12924.125,"text":"那個我的主決議因為我這次警政的部分我就只有提主決議然後我們是53到56我有做一個文字修正我只是想要確定一下因為53、54、55、56我有請我們警政大會要提這個書面報告是一個月那53、55、56你們是希望改成一個月可是54案你們是可以維持一個月嗎是不是這個沒有改"},{"start":12924.525,"end":12941.086,"text":"一民只有修了一個,你們的文字修正只有把那個條規168改成169,你們應該是要改169可是那個提書面報告,你們一個月OK是不是?因為文字修正裡面,535、565都有修"},{"start":12942.932,"end":12943.052,"text":"三個月。"},{"start":12961.701,"end":12989.375,"text":"不,好啦,署長說,署長說還是三個月,OK,這沒有問題啦,OK那還有52案,雖然說是詐騙通貨,我還是要強調一下就是說其實我跟這個由易燃專委都很關心就是我們警方的這個警察的這個業務量真的非常的繁重就高達186項,就是說就算叫到環保局要稽查環境也要有警察在旁邊支援監理站做交通、交通稽查也要有警察那像這個跟警察無關的一些比較無關的這個相關的這個業務跟法條"},{"start":12991.576,"end":13010.986,"text":"可能大家要來爭執,我看要怎麼來修這個部分。當然我是提出這個主角,因為這樣讓警察的這個權利又可以正常化跟法治化。OK,好,以上謝謝。我還沒有宣告之前,我要先講一下,我們這次是史上空前的,"},{"start":13011.986,"end":13036.494,"text":"全部只給你動30萬元而已但是我希望每一個人都要記得我所提醒的各位的事情我還是很關心的就是不管是剛剛的我們對於警察人權的重視也謝謝部長也常常支持我對於我們警察人權保障以及包括我們現在寶二在調訓的期間有很多同仁對於他們相關的權益請假"},{"start":13041.215,"end":13061.573,"text":"我們對於同仁的訊息提供真的是不夠不夠及時不夠周延以至於包括到現在還有很多現職同仁會來問我他們在113年或114年退休之後他們的什麼扣帕啦各種的問題我覺得人事"},{"start":13064.015,"end":13084.553,"text":"記得我們是要做服務一定要把這些訊息要讓他們不要有太多後顧之憂好不好然後另外也就是剛剛我們在講的對於我們警察同仁的身心的照顧要隨時提醒他們然後給他們最最好的一個支援一定要"},{"start":13085.874,"end":13097.436,"text":"很難得我們大家做這些努力紅綠委員你來了可是已經被我們做掉了沒關係啦我主決議第47、53至56、59、63、66案文字修正文字通過第46、48至52、57、58、60至62案、64、65案照案通過"},{"start":13114.079,"end":13115.5,"text":"我們現在處理消防署及所屬單位的預算"},{"start":13145.308,"end":13151.993,"text":"你們現在馬上就要走了嗎?還沒有做最後的確認等一下我們說不定張宏祐委員要翻"},{"start":13161.795,"end":13188.086,"text":"消防署及所屬單位預算稅務部分委員無相關提案預算照列稅出部分第一幕一般行政第一案、第二案改組決議第三案只是等一下"},{"start":13189.83,"end":13193.215,"text":"我為什麼一定要凍結我看一下因為"},{"start":13202.497,"end":13227.394,"text":"來那個我的那個第三案我的助理跟我說了是因為我們對於消防同仁因為是那個打火弟兄們有跟我反映說他們這個就是公保跟警察員員的慰問金裡面那在這裡面對於我們打火弟兄的這個特殊的比如說燙傷的這部分並沒有納入那個慰問"},{"start":13230.356,"end":13257.71,"text":"的項目大部分的這些慰問金很多都是仰賴我們的募款對外的募款法定給付不足所以我是希望希望能夠你們有這樣的一個凍結案讓你們有個壓力可以去逼使這個人事總處跟權序部這些單位可以給你們一些就是把"},{"start":13259.47,"end":13287.098,"text":"燙傷的慰問也放進去十萬元有困難嗎?有沒有困難?跟召委報告一下受傷同仁的慰問我們在第一時間都馬上做都已經馬上做像這次屏東的事件我們第一時間就陪同部長到屏東去那慰問已經馬上就到位這沒有現在運作上沒有問題那當總額花了好像第一時間就花了八十幾萬馬上投注進去"},{"start":13287.958,"end":13314.819,"text":"當然後續對通行照顧包括現在我們還是在追蹤那只要公保沒辦法處理的部分目前我們在信託基金跟消防發展基金會這邊會做這方面的審查這個基金還是主要都是靠募款來的嗎?還是公務的預算?我們捐助的部分都是用捐助的嗎?這個額度現在目前我來聽一下那個張文睦委員你對於你的案子第四案"},{"start":13316.533,"end":13327.824,"text":"你是凍結10萬的對啊我看啦,看主席你要怎麼樣啦,不然我們兩個就合併凍10萬順便報告就合併凍10萬啦,可以嗎本木合併凍10萬併凍10萬可以嗎"},{"start":13335.868,"end":13336.148,"text":"有沒有困難?"},{"start":13348.962,"end":13366.018,"text":"來,第一幕一般行政,第一、二案改組決議,第三、四案委員提案合併處理,並案凍結10萬,向本會提出書面報告後,使得動之。第二幕消防救災業務,第5至12、17至21案改組決議,"},{"start":13372.637,"end":13378.319,"text":"5、5、5、5、5、5、5、5、5、"},{"start":13380.934,"end":13404.425,"text":"那個品瑜先講好了品瑜再講謝謝主席本席這一幕是第16案那因為我們公服法在2020年3月修正事情之後全國沒有登記的工廠跟特定工廠都要開始納管然後也要加強後續消防安檢的工作那目前這個消防署事前"},{"start":13405.606,"end":13422.863,"text":"跟我們這邊說明溝通的資料有說到說全國納管工廠及特定工廠架數總共是39358架那到9月為止有剩大概6700多架還沒盤點完所以大概就還有17%左右那"},{"start":13424.059,"end":13452.121,"text":"比起這個政院2022年9月合定的計存工廠活摘安全管理經濟對策推動方案設定的2024目標70%的進度是有達標可是我還是希望就是說還是要盡快去做完這件事情所以這個部分的話我會希望說凍結一點數額但是數目不堅持那其實就是針對剩下這個還沒有完成盤點的數量那就是說希望也希望消防署這邊可以聯繫各地的消防機關去訂這個"},{"start":13453.342,"end":13461.648,"text":"事故處理機制的進度,提供書面報告給內政委員會委員參考我這樣建議,我們是不是整目,有委員提到凍結的話,我們就整目來做處理"},{"start":13476.579,"end":13476.899,"text":"整目並動10萬﹗"},{"start":13497.831,"end":13519.321,"text":"二、消防救災業務第5至12、17至21案改組決議．第13至16案委員提案合併處理．並按凍結10萬元向本會提出書面報告後．使得動之。三、港務消防業務．只有張二路委員．"},{"start":13521.612,"end":13528.614,"text":"第23案改組決議第5目一般建築及設備第4目港務消防業務第23案改組決議第4目特種搜救業務"},{"start":13554.061,"end":13565.832,"text":"第3目港務消防業務第22案改組決議第4目23案是不是比照改組決議"},{"start":13568.755,"end":13592.634,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二十六、二十八、三十三、四十、四十一案、修正文字通過二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二十六、二十八、三十三、四十、四十一案、修正文字通過二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":13605.003,"end":13606.804,"text":"有關移民署單位預算協商"},{"start":13626.302,"end":13638.587,"text":"稅務部分委員無相關提案預算照列稅出部分依目一般行政第二案、第三案改組決議"},{"start":13648.736,"end":13651.478,"text":"我對這一點很抱歉,我不是不想改組決議"},{"start":13666.188,"end":13689.828,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":13695.032,"end":13717.341,"text":"第一目一般行政,第一案不處理,第二、三案改組決議,第四案委員提案,凍結10萬元,向本會提出書面報告後,使得動之。第二目,誤出國籍移民管理業務,第五、六、十一至十七案改組決議,"},{"start":13721.877,"end":13747.872,"text":"那個紅綠這個賴委員你的第10案第一賴委員謝謝謝謝主席本席在這一幕是在第10案那這個部分是這樣子啊因為其實移民署應該也知道說本席是非常非常關心各自治安還有各自外洩的事情那移民署這邊確實有給我一些資料參考又來辦公室說明過那從"},{"start":13749.393,"end":13775.18,"text":"資料裡面我也同意就是說移民署在強化資安軟體的軟硬體上面確實有比過去努力不過有一個問題就是說我覺得都沒有回答到的是我因為我更關心的其實是這個資安事件如果發生的話到底要怎麼去通知這個當事人的程序就是說雖然你們有說你們內部程序比個資法規定嚴謹可是在你們給的資料裡面有些部分我覺得比較模糊的是"},{"start":13777.061,"end":13791.717,"text":"寫說如果涉及當事人權益受損的時候會在查明真相後以適當的方式去告知當事人也就是說其實在你們資料裡有幾個點我沒有看到你們說明會怎麼處理第一個就是通知這個當事人的時間點是什麼"},{"start":13793.038,"end":13816.36,"text":"因為你們只有寫說是查明或通知但沒有說譬如說查明的時間是多久那如果今天你隔了很久才通知的話能不能去達到這個保護當事人的目的是真的是非常有討論的空間因為大家都知道各自外洩其實有一個很重要的那個保護的一個要點就是說那個時間有時效性那第二個就是說你們也沒有說通知當事人的內容是什麼"},{"start":13816.98,"end":13846.64,"text":"如果今天通知的內容只有各自外泄的事實跟採取的因應措施卻沒有告訴那個當事人說你外泄個資是什麼樣的個資什麼樣的數量或是說相關矯正預防的做法這種具體的資訊的話我覺得其實對於這個一般的當事人來說民眾怎麼會知道他到底要怎麼去處理這件事情那第三個就是說你通知當事人的這個前提是什麼因為個資法的規定是違反本法規定導致個資被竊取等等會通知當事人"},{"start":13847.16,"end":13867.336,"text":"所以實務上會遇到一些行政部門認為在不違反各執法的前提下因為已經有採行適當安全措施可能是資料被植入二一程式或是被入侵而外洩的話因為沒有涉及各執法裡面說到這個過失的問題也就沒有違反本法規定的問題所以他會決定說不通知當事人嗎?因為"},{"start":13868.237,"end":13891.773,"text":"他可能甚至覺得說他這些單位擔心名譽受損所以選擇不通報那這幾個點都是我覺得移民署沒有跟我說明到的地方所以這個案子我還是希望維持凍結只是數額我們可以討論因為你們掌管的資料真的很重要所以希望就是移民署針對我提到的三個問題做成一份書面報告然後也給每個關心的委員參考在裡面謝謝"},{"start":13893.815,"end":13895.117,"text":"這個他們也有跟我溝通我的案子我是改組決議"},{"start":13915.698,"end":13940.998,"text":"那我我現在就是說請那個請教賴委員請大家都改組決議你要不要改組決議我我這樣子講好了啦其實其實我的建議我的建議是尊重賴委員但是我覺得是可以整目並動十萬好不好"},{"start":13943.991,"end":13948.001,"text":"可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?"},{"start":13952.25,"end":13960.216,"text":"二、入出國籍移民管理業務第5、6、11至17案改組決議第7至10案委員提案合併處理並按凍結10萬元向本會提出書面報告後使得動之"},{"start":13979.98,"end":14006.772,"text":"第三目一般建築及設備及第四目第一預備機委員五相關提案預算均照列主決議已經全部處理完第19案修正文字通過第18、20至23案照案通過好,移民署處理完了現在空勤總隊"},{"start":14017.882,"end":14032.428,"text":"空中勤務總隊單位預算,輸入部分委員無相關提案預算照列。秀出部分第一目,一般行政委員無相關提案預算照列。第二目,"},{"start":14035.105,"end":14052.192,"text":"空中停留業務。第二案,王美惠的改組決議。第三案,王美惠還沒有,人不在,所以不處理。第四案,鄭天才人不在,不處理。第四案也不處理。"},{"start":14061.349,"end":14085.105,"text":"二、空中勤務業務第3、第4案有處理．第1、2案改組決議．第3目一般建築設備無劣素．及第4目第一預備金．為緣無相關提案預算照列．"},{"start":14086.304,"end":14089.947,"text":"主決議第五、第六案照案通過。"},{"start":14101.874,"end":14118.248,"text":"中央警察大學單位預算稅務部分委員無相關提案預算照列稅出部分第一幕一般行政委員無相關提案預算照列第二幕高級警察"},{"start":14120.171,"end":14127.877,"text":"第一案改組決議第三目第一預備金委員無相關提案預算照列組決議第二至第四案照案通過"},{"start":14157.028,"end":14179.454,"text":"我們現在新住民發展基金附屬單位預算基金來源委員無相關提案預算照列基金用途第一案改組決議組決議第二至第五案照案通過"},{"start":14192.084,"end":14192.204,"text":"請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":14219.13,"end":14238.821,"text":"宣讀113年度中央政府總預算案有關警政署及所屬單位預算協商結論警政署及所屬單位預算稅務部門委員無相關提案預算招列稅務部門第一幕一般行政第四案不處理第一第二第三第五案改組決議第二幕警政業務第九案第十九案不處理"},{"start":14239.801,"end":14259.883,"text":"第六、七、八、十三、十四、二十至二十二案、二十四案改組決議。第十至十二案、十五至十八案、二十三案委員提案合併處理,併案凍結三十萬元,向本位提出書面報告,使得動之。第三目,警務管理,第25案不處理,第26案測案,"},{"start":14262.523,"end":14264.746,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬、中"},{"start":14276.288,"end":14278.749,"text":"6、刑事警察業務36案不處理38、39、40、42案測案32、33、34、35、37、41、43案改組決議7、初期警察業務44案不處理8、一般建築及設備45案不處理"},{"start":14297.745,"end":14307.031,"text":"第九目第一預備金委員無效案提案預算照列主決議第47、53至56、59、63、66修正文字通過第46、48至52、57、58、60至62、64、65案照案通過113年度中央政府總預算案有關消防署及所屬單位預算協商消防署及所屬單位預算"},{"start":14324.802,"end":14353.552,"text":"稅務部分委員無銷案提案預算招列稅出部分第一幕一般行政第一、第二案改組決議第三、第四案委員提案合併處理並案凍結10萬元向本院提出書面報告時的動之第二幕消防救災業務第五至12案17至21案改組決議第13至16案委員提案合併處理並案凍結10萬元向本院提出書面報告時的動之第三幕港務消防業務"},{"start":14355.131,"end":14369.063,"text":"第22案改組決議第4目特種收集約務第23案改組決議第5目一般建築及設備及第6目第一備金委員會宣案提案預算均遭列組決議第26、28、33、40、41案修正5次通過第24、25、27、29至32案、34案至39案遭案通過"},{"start":14389.137,"end":14391.864,"text":"113年度中央政府總預算有關移民署單位預算協商結論"},{"start":14393.438,"end":14419.733,"text":"移民署單位預算稅務部分委員無相關提案預算照列稅務部分第一幕一般行政第一案不處理第二、三案改組決議第四案委員提案凍結10萬元向本院提出書面報告適合動之第二幕入出國及移民管理業務第五、六、十一至十七案改組決議第七至十案委員提案合併處理並按凍結10萬元向本院提出書面報告適合動之"},{"start":14421.328,"end":14440.056,"text":"第三目一般建築及設備及第四目第一備軍委員無相案提案預算均照列。主決議第十九案修正無事通過,第十八案二十至二十三案照案通過。113年度中央政府總預算有關空中勤務總隊單位預算協商結論。"},{"start":14442.264,"end":14467.405,"text":"空中勤務總隊單位預算稅數部分委員會相關提案預算照列稅數部分第一幕一般行政委員會相關提案預算照列第二幕空中勤務業務第三案、第四案不處理第一案及第二案改組決議第三幕一般建築設備無劣數及第四幕第一倍金委員會相關提案預算照列組決議第五案、第六案照案通過"},{"start":14470.549,"end":14494.517,"text":"113年度中央政府總預算案有關中央警察大學單位預算協商結論中央警察大學單位預算稅數部分委員無銷案提案預算照列稅數部分第一幕一般行政委員無銷案提案預算照列第二幕高級警察教育第一案改組決議第三幕第一備軍委員無銷案提案預算照列組決議第二案至第四案照案通過"},{"start":14496.891,"end":14516.679,"text":"113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算會議部門有關內政部主管特別收入基金新住民發展基金預算協商結論基金來源委員吳瀟漢提案預算招列基金用途第一案改組決議第二案至組決議第二案至第五案招案通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":14521.594,"end":14549.388,"text":"請問各位同仁有委員提案的部分照剛才勳讀的協商結論通過沒有提案的部分預算均照列請問有無異議?要喊一下沒有好不好?請問有無異議?沒有無異議通過本次通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員整理113年度中央政府總預算案關於警政署及所屬"},{"start":14550.72,"end":14575.38,"text":"中央檢察大學消防署及所屬、移民署、空中勤務總隊部分審查完畢．據審查報告含附財政委員會．有關政事別稅出預算．隨同機關別審查結果調整。113年度中央政府總預算案分配"},{"start":14576.201,"end":14588.953,"text":"由黨會審查所有之公務預算均已審查完略。拟據審查報告含送財政委員會提報院會討論。院會討論前需交由黨團協商。院會討論時,由遭及委員益蘭、羅遭及委員美琳補充說明。"},{"start":14599.563,"end":14625.02,"text":"113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部份關於內政部主管特別收入基金、新住民發展基金、警察、消防海巡、移民、空勤人員及攜勤民力安全基金預算案審查完略,擬據審查報告含附財政委員會提報院會。113年度"},{"start":14627.722,"end":14652.669,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金、在校學生獎學基金、國族稱先生警察子女獎學基金、成員獎學基金案審查完畢,拟據審查報告含附財政委員會提報院會。"},{"start":14653.849,"end":14676.417,"text":"本會負責審查之113年度中央政府總預算案所屬單位預算非營業部分、作業基金、特別收入基金及信託基金部分均已審查完畢。每據審查報告還送財政委員會提報院會討論。院會討論前需交由"},{"start":14680.539,"end":14690.716,"text":"黨團協商院會討論時﹐由召集委員玉蘭和召集委員美琳補充說明。113年度財團法人臺灣省義勇人員"},{"start":14694.482,"end":14711.99,"text":"安全記住基金會、財團法人警察學術研究基金會及財團法人義勇消防人員安全記住基金會預算書案均審查完略分別擬據。"},{"start":14714.806,"end":14742.724,"text":"審查報告提報院會公決不需交由黨團協商．並推請本席與院會討論時做補充說明。各委員會報告黨團預算協商將於12月初展開．為利本委員會預算審查報告進速送至院會。本次會議議事錄授權由本席確定。請問各位委員有無異議?"},{"start":14744.245,"end":14744.926,"text":"沒有確定本次議程處理完畢,現在散會。"},{"start":14760.303,"end":14767.945,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中"},{"start":14793.553,"end":14803.599,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及"},{"start":14823.863,"end":14835.126,"text":"警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及所屬、中警署及"},{"start":14853.072,"end":14859.947,"text":"局部部長。二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於警"}]}},{"id":"15321","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15321","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd84d5437c18e80f076425655b8120616f46d53a332764a535b5cf550acfcd12be5ea1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謝謝下一位請陳歐柏委員陳以凡好 再下一位黃孟凱委員"},{"start":2444.978,"end":2468.055,"text":"謝謝主席本席在交通委員會三屆歷經國民黨完全執政、民進黨完全執政事實上我都同一個標準我希望NCC是獨立機關應該是做一隻有牙齒的老虎所以不管在什麼樣的情況之下我都力求要公平公正來對待"},{"start":2469.468,"end":2495.043,"text":"媒體的管理因為這個很難管理涉及到很多的財團權力的結構所以這個主委很難做唯一就是秉持一定的標準放之四海的標準來處理所以今天針對剛剛陳教授委員跟邱行之委員兩位的發言有些我是贊成有些我不贊成我表達我個人的意見"},{"start":2496.161,"end":2503.804,"text":"第一個陳耀祥主委一到逆媒就攪亂這個有點偏濕啦你是一到媒體就攪亂了你是一到媒體就攪亂我的看法是這樣第二點交委會應繼續審NCCC算這點我保留態度我們現在剩下兩個禮拜再繼續審的話什麼時候可以審"},{"start":2520.985,"end":2537.036,"text":"審預算是我們的權責,立法院的權責該計的責任我是認為怎麼樣都要好好來審第三點有提到說這個NCC應該提及究責相關的維持的部分我全力支持該怎麼辦就怎麼辦"},{"start":2539.144,"end":2549.491,"text":"不要推脫 也不要揣測商議現在我們民進黨很多的機關是這樣子啊 揣測商議 商議怎麼想 都自己想的 自己搞的結果 全國人民的質疑啊 誰造成這樣子就是因為你獨立機關的所長 你該怎麼做你就承擔起來你不要揣測商議 搞得大家都不曉得到底是誰的意思"},{"start":2565.99,"end":2594.591,"text":"是執政黨的意思還是總統的還是行政院長的意思你獨立西瓜你在負責任陳主委我再次拜託你硬起來你不用管誰誰講的話你今天國家賦予給你這個權責你就要擔當起來針對今天報紙有寫趙超康、沈博洋還有一位擔任公事董事的一位民眾黨提名的部分去立委我想標準都一樣"},{"start":2596.266,"end":2599.147,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":2622.861,"end":2634.675,"text":"因為就是你們攪亂推脫責任給別單位叫一步這個是不對的該負擔責任是負擔起來一樣我的這個報告但是預算還是今天要審好下一位黃孟楷委員發言"},{"start":2656.595,"end":2676.586,"text":"各位委員我們今天交通委員會要在審理明年度NCC的預算我要請教大家我們自己扪心質問NCC過去這段時間所作所為所行所言有真真正正進到一個中華民國政府獨立機關行使的角色嗎?"},{"start":2678.004,"end":2706.003,"text":"如果說我們今天還可以放任NCC把他的預算給拿出來然後我們這樣子糊裡糊塗滿天過來就讓他過關的話我們愧對台灣人民所有人民給予我們的責任最重要的NCC代呼職守NCC難辭其咎NCC居然讓我們看到一個真真切切的媒體壟斷的事件實在發生在現在的中華民國政府"},{"start":2708.336,"end":2712.163,"text":"綠媒可以直接把手伸進去間接投資宗家27%的股份"},{"start":2714.74,"end":2743.869,"text":"這樣子的一個直接介入新聞台跟系統台直接合併直接變成是一體的然後這件事情還不是NC主動查緝的是被踢爆的被踢爆之後三個月內才千呼萬喚使出來所謂的報告但報告昨天拿到手我們看了之後更覺得是啼笑皆非根本就是便宜形式要一年的時間才要去處理這個股份"},{"start":2745.046,"end":2760.608,"text":"我們要問要一年的時間才能處理這個股份大家覺得合理嗎?被踢爆才去了解才去介入調查之後要一年的時間處理股份一年後咧?傳過水無痕"},{"start":2762.213,"end":2786.956,"text":"那如果說之後再來一次瞞天過海今天是因為被踢爆所以說才去調查了解如果說之後沒有被踢爆沒有去了解那是不是可以這樣子的一個手法持續再做再者我們要問之前NCC就已經有說了新聞媒體不得直接間接的投資任何的系統台那現在事情已經發生了處罰的標準是什麼"},{"start":2789.416,"end":2810.843,"text":"處罰的標準是什麼?NCC今天提不出來很抱歉你提不出來你要怎麼讓我們相信說我們能夠去審查你明年的預算NCC這樣的機關還要再運作嗎?有運作跟沒運作有差嗎?真真實實的新聞台就是直接已經間接的投資了系統台這就是事實"},{"start":2812.41,"end":2827.559,"text":"獅子不要說是沒牙齒的老虎啊他根本就是為財團服務的老虎根本就是為財團服務的僕人根本不配也沒有進到我們中華民國政府保衛台灣2350萬人視聽大眾的權益所以"},{"start":2832.898,"end":2842.856,"text":"本期很語重心長的要跟各位委員同仁來說明我們今天國民黨團很負責任提出提案要求針對NCC"},{"start":2845.458,"end":2863.262,"text":"不管是過去新聞媒體管理嚴重雙標的問題通傳會業務執行變成是覆水組織的問題靜電是發生違反承諾NCC行政延遲的問題以及禁止媒體壟斷紅線形同虛設的問題這些問題沒有解決之前113年的預算暫緩審查這是對於國人交代的態度而且"},{"start":2874.073,"end":2894.258,"text":"我也跟各位委員同仁來報告其實就中華民國政府的行政機關的預算使用來講人事費用、薪水費用不受我們立法院即便是預算還沒通過他們還是可以支應換言之這一些"},{"start":2895.575,"end":2908.901,"text":"拿人民納稅前高薪的高官們他們薪水其實是不受影響的我們不會因為我們今天沒有審查113年NCC的預算而他們會有任何人拿不到薪水"},{"start":2910.131,"end":2925.747,"text":"但是這是一個態度問題這也是一個大是大非的問題我們要這樣子包庇NCC的預算到什麼程度我們要讓NCC不作為到什麼程度我們要讓NCC擺案到什麼程度這一點才是我們要面對國人的"},{"start":2926.548,"end":2944.191,"text":"所以我具體也提出我們的臨時提案等一下我也認為主席是不是應該要先表決我們的臨時提案因為我知道我們今天國民黨團、時代力量黨團也都有提出相關的臨時提案而如果我們不把這個當一回事我們還是敷衍草率的"},{"start":2945.947,"end":2947.328,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":2961.155,"end":2981.427,"text":"所以我們再一次拜託主席等一下我們應該要先處理臨時提案我們再來做後續而國民黨團很堅決明白的態度強調在上述幾件事情沒有解決釐清之前我們拒審113年度NCC的政府預算。謝謝好謝謝侯孟凱偉的發言針對"},{"start":2992.66,"end":2993.68,"text":"林基委員請謝謝主席我是認為預算要審而且要延審這是我們立法院委員的職責但是各位剛剛提的對NCC的幾點質疑也不是完全都沒有道理"},{"start":3020.612,"end":3039.281,"text":"那在預算審查的時候我們可以要求我們甚至可以提出條件NCC要給社會這些問題的答案這個是我們審預算上我們的國會議員手上的職責和武器現在這樣的一個股權買賣我想請問NCC是誰要申報是買方要申報還是賣方要申報"},{"start":3051.701,"end":3056.543,"text":"買賣一定是賣放要申報嘛那宗家為什麼敢不申報?那敢不申報有沒有法則?沒有法則啊。而他為什麼敢?還有別的公司敢這樣嗎?那麼大筆股權移轉,剛剛沒給你申報這宗家看不起你NCC啦,你NCC要生氣啦宗家給你打在頭上啦"},{"start":3079.741,"end":3081.663,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":3108.254,"end":3133.551,"text":"如果他要收多少?多久?一年喔?一年如果沒有賣出去咧?有沒有罰則?也是沒有罰則啊?不然你這個單位人家看你不去啦然後你NCC的事後處理啦對社會的解釋啦你說你不知道是因為啊你不知道買方是三立啊因為你是查到第三層的股東啦胡說八道"},{"start":3135.319,"end":3143.661,"text":"這各位NCC想說什麼?NCC兩個單位寫你們只查到第三層股東你待會要交代出來你這個不是打臉黨政軍條款嗎?股權影響一定是查到最後的受益人這是黨政軍條款最基本最重要的原則和精神啊不然你要讓我黨政軍我就藏在第四層第五層你就查不到啊那一定是查到最後受益人受益股東嘛"},{"start":3164.295,"end":3174.41,"text":"然後那個新聞稿或者是要發言是NCC兩個單位哪個主管還是你陳主委你要給我們交代吧我看到你寫那個新聞稿我看了就火大做一個那麼大的機關胡說八道"},{"start":3179.422,"end":3199.339,"text":"黨軍調管也是我們維護媒體中立一個很重要的一個法案嘛。阿重點就是你要查到最終收益人嘛。你不怪你這個機關會被人家攻擊啊。你亂講什麼只查到因為他他交易是在第三層股東所以你營基金不察覺。有幾個重點啦。為什麼賣房敢不來申報啦。對不對。阿事後你也沒辦法。下一次會再發生你你你你也不可以怎樣。阿第二個"},{"start":3207.473,"end":3221.227,"text":"現在已經發生了,你怎麼去上後處理?如果中央沒有辦法把這個股權再轉賣出來,啊你也沒辦法,你也沒法則啦。還有不要再亂講什麼你只查到第幾層股東啦,自己打領自己的。但是我們預算可以審查,我是給我們這些"},{"start":3228.36,"end":3253.434,"text":"剛剛那個時代力量還有紅門稿員做參考啦我們可以審查但你們要的條件我們可以我們可以在預算裡面做他們要求嘛你其實做不到那預算就不要給他就不要給他動資嘛但是你今天不審查的話我們這個會期沒有時間你整個預算就拖到明年去啦好不好這是我的建議請各位同仁做參考啦好 謝謝主席好 謝謝還有嗎 沒有了吧"},{"start":3259.169,"end":3265.753,"text":"陳焦華委員、陳雪生委員兩項的委員提案聚審或是緩審請一併宣讀臨時提案鑒於國家通訊傳播委員會無論在民進黨、府、院、黨、政、高層黑手介入、禁電視、執照取得及後續爭議一案或勝利集團與系統台、中家聯手形成綠色媒體"},{"start":3287.844,"end":3304.031,"text":"據受跨越反媒體壟斷紅線的違法爭議,原提請本委員會應在國家通訊傳播委員會與針對前階案件的違法情形依法進行實質裁罰前,拒絕審查國家通訊傳播委員會之預算,提案人委員陳焦華等。"},{"start":3306.963,"end":3318.889,"text":"提案針對通傳會弊端重申人貿不章一、新聞媒體管理嚴重雙標問題二、通傳會業務執行輪迴民進黨附水組織問題三、競電事發生違反承諾四項通傳會行政嚴重疏失四、禁止媒體壟斷紅線形同虛設問題院。原要求113年度通傳會及附屬單位預算在上述問題未解決前應暫緩審議。提案人委員陳雪生等宣讀完畢。"},{"start":3339.286,"end":3349.07,"text":"據審或緩審,各位委員有沒有異議?有有進行協商還是表決?不要再上來講啊,再上來,不不不,你在下面就好了"},{"start":3363.607,"end":3367.551,"text":"再跑上來又搞10分鐘?坐著還站著?你贊成還是不贊成?"},{"start":3368.499,"end":3397.237,"text":"那個主席啊我們交通委員會很少用表決的方式啦今天出於這種有爭議的案子我認為休息或者說先請主委跟我們說明一下那我們再協商一下那要表決也可以我也不反對但是這個程序總是要走一下不要馬上就我是問你說表決還是協商啦協商啦就是協商一下嘛先休息一下先請主委說明一下嘛"},{"start":3398.426,"end":3418.005,"text":"稍微昨天那個黨團協商你有簽字是不是?因為今天要送出去阿現在整個例月裡面就等我們交通委員會了沒有啦就是大家如果不同意我是覺得就表決阿沒有什麼好協商"},{"start":3419.657,"end":3422.141,"text":"這樣好了?稍微我們緩和一點,先給一點時間給那個陳主委好不好?"},{"start":3432.163,"end":3450.619,"text":"欸抱歉喔我們大家都昨天下班前都收到NCC對於這一次這個間接投資媒體介入的這個報告這報告NCC自己在最後大事記都講了他是9月8號被立法委員開記者會踢爆有"},{"start":3452.833,"end":3463.979,"text":"紅順公司股東股份異動之後才來函檢舉到9月27號立法委員來函檢舉NCC才動起來927到現在11月底再兩個月時間過去了給我們這份報告"},{"start":3470.663,"end":3496.68,"text":"晚了兩個月然後報告裡面還沒有完全把事情釐清那最重要的是現在告訴我們說給人家一年的時間去處理股份然後裁罰處罰是什麼不知道那如果說這樣的話沒有被踢爆第一沒有被踢爆之前這一件事情到底進行多久了NCC主管機關不知道第二踢爆之後要一年的時間"},{"start":3498.171,"end":3514.524,"text":"一年的時間再去處理第三現在開罰什麼不知道那我們到底要怎麼審查這個機關還存在嗎他還有責任他有功能嗎那我們現在我剛剛已經開宗明義講了其實主席"},{"start":3515.854,"end":3543.712,"text":"中華民國政府我們每個機關即便是立法院沒有通過我們年度預算但是到了明年1月他還是可以透過主計他們還是可以動之人事費用所以這個機關運行不會有問題只是我們現在黨我們現在預算審查沒有通過的話他不能進行的是新增計畫預算以及他不能進行的是其他非人事費用的預算換言之薪水也不受影響"},{"start":3544.512,"end":3558.942,"text":"這個是中華民國政府法令規定對於公務人員最基本的保障所以我們現在講即便是等一下給主委來做說明啊他的說明不會超出這個報告裡面的內容我們還要再聽這種廢話嗎我們還要再讓NCC來這邊做政令宣導嗎"},{"start":3566.346,"end":3581.036,"text":"給他們兩個月的時間交出這樣的報告已經多少次了大家也講嘛我們交通委員會都是大家都是用協商的不表決的那我們要問今天到底是什麼樣的機關可以把我們交通委員會這樣的一個感情給破壞"},{"start":3582.851,"end":3601.763,"text":"這樣的機關不分藍綠草野大家共同都指責也認為說他們沒有做到位那現在這樣綠營的朋友我們現在還是執政黨我們很尊重的因為你們是國會多數執政黨委員要坐在這邊到最後要表決要護航這樣的機關嗎?這樣大家護航得下去沒有必要背這樣的黑鍋NCC今天做得好一點的話我講真的"},{"start":3612.639,"end":3630.371,"text":"明年1月13號大家選舉都還不知道但是就是因為NCC過去幾年讓國人看到根本沒有作為而且是越來越加離譜民進黨都覺得說他根本就是不知道變成是誰的打手了我們民進黨委員不用這樣子護航吧"},{"start":3631.519,"end":3649.927,"text":"所以我很認真我很誠意誠懇的表示我們可以再提一個臨時提案大家一起來提我們暫緩審查NCC的預算對於整個中華民國政府預算不會有任何影響昨天的朝野協商還算數我們就是先把NCC的預算給擱置"},{"start":3651.447,"end":3674.984,"text":"讓他們把真真正正報告給交出來告訴我們這件事情要怎麼處罰之後我們再來討論這是我由衷的拜託也請求我們交通委員會所有委員思考我的提案我們一起來做一件事情不分草野藍綠但是我們要求行政部門都應該做對中華民國國民負責任的事情謝謝等一下再發言啦"},{"start":3678.277,"end":3703.632,"text":"現在針對這個審還是不審有沒有,我們來表決好了你不表決?你來表決?那個主席啊,剛剛黃旺凱委員的話齁我大部分都贊成啦但是有幾點我不贊成啦什麼?有幾點我不贊成啦他說我們在赴航我們在座其他的民進黨委員在赴航NCC"},{"start":3705.555,"end":3728.768,"text":"那我可以講第8屆的時候國民黨委員會復航NCC第8屆的時候NCC是怎麼搞的怎麼亂搞的這NCC這個單位本來就很多書我們在座很多委員都贊成說這個有沒有存置的必要這個可以討論但是但是我要講一點你剛剛講那個都我們都懂啦在座李昆哲委員這時候去預算怎麼處理我們都很清楚啦"},{"start":3730.144,"end":3732.525,"text":"記者媒體記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記者記"},{"start":3758.082,"end":3758.865,"text":"這個是一個一個原則的問題我們"},{"start":3761.59,"end":3790.375,"text":"以前沒有那麼糟糕啦以前更糟糕啦以前沒有那麼糟糕而且拿出這種東西我們還要吃得下去嗎?這種報告我們要吃得下去我們是要吞下去你們對預算有一件主條來審查這款報告我們真的吃不下去台灣人民吃不下去台灣人民沒辦法接受你自己講的啦台灣人民沒辦法接受啦這樣子的話一直講下去啊你要比較的話永遠比不完啦那個...那個這樣啦顯示委員你一分鐘喔我去給你關掉喔"},{"start":3795.719,"end":3809.611,"text":"我們在交通委員會審查了很多的各個局、署等等的預算那你可以看到說比如說公路局好了那他的主要職責就是在做這個建設嘛"},{"start":3810.391,"end":3826.266,"text":"所以你去實質去監督他有沒有浪費那NCC的角色他在監理欸你現在問題是說你這個機關的核心的角色應該是做一個獨立機關然後能夠做一個獨立機關的情況之下去做監理所以剛剛為什麼會說依照趕快爛到爆點啊"},{"start":3830.89,"end":3848.516,"text":"當然啦我當然相信台灣是一個從威權轉型民主的國家所以在這個媒體的自由上面很多問題嘛所以我們現在不應該讓他爛下去嘛你應該作為一個NCC作為一個獨立機關就是要擔當起你的角色否則的話你為什麼能夠花人民的血汗錢嘛"},{"start":3850.156,"end":3871.247,"text":"每一個人的背景都是辛辛苦苦賺錢繳了房貸繳了車貸繳了奶粉錢尿布錢之後剩下的這些錢繳給國家那你就是要做法分配給你的角色嘛那今天的問題在哪裡今天的問題是說你根本沒有在做監理的角色啊光是這個紅胎公益信託這個問題剛剛陳厚破委員也講說你憑什麼推給教育部嘛"},{"start":3876.55,"end":3877.07,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":3900.225,"end":3904.467,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算"},{"start":3927.258,"end":3951.143,"text":"那你現在在報告裡面交代的就是15%嘛而且還要這麼久的時間才能夠轉換那12%呢這三個月的時間沒辦法調查清楚嘛這沒有辦法給社會一個交代嘛所以你現在連一個明確的行政處分都沒辦法做即便你說你要怎麼改善你要怎麼這個裁法完全都沒有嘛"},{"start":3951.903,"end":3980.245,"text":"所以我基本上會認為說啦預算的審查本來就是國會在監督行政機關他要做事你有做這個事我們通過這個預算支持你給這個錢那你沒做這個事啊你最核心的內容你都沒做事的時候憑什麼要花人民的血汗錢你那個一分鐘好長喔差不多一分鐘你腳壞了啦那你是怎麼樣30秒一分鐘"},{"start":3982.624,"end":3983.986,"text":"總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":4001.889,"end":4014.93,"text":"12點前提供給各黨團及相關行政部門參考請行政部門在提案然後禮拜一下下禮拜一之前密集協商那這樣子我簽名跟我們今天"},{"start":4016.472,"end":4039.138,"text":"據審這個NCC預算應該是無關吧我想我們劉委員顯然誤會了所以今天我們真的是忍無可忍我們才會寫這個臨時提案嘛那其他我就不再說明了好 謝謝一分鐘你們的一分鐘表的那麼長昆德偉"},{"start":4040.287,"end":4061.762,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉我必須提醒各位委員相關的中央政府總預算的基本審查程序財政委員會必須要等到各委員會審查結束提出審查報告送到財政委員會由財政委員會再提到院會來做處理"},{"start":4062.603,"end":4087.954,"text":"所以你沒有辦法NCC拒審或者是不處理這樣整個政府的總預算都會受到相當的延誤以上跟大家做個提醒我們停止發言了我們要進行處理那開始就進行舉手表決支持拒審案的請舉手"},{"start":4090.495,"end":4116.556,"text":"一、二、三。好,手放下。支持繼續審查的請舉手。一、二、三、四、五、六。一、二、三、四、五、六。六位齁。六。在場主席委員九人。贊成者三人。"},{"start":4117.725,"end":4144.1,"text":"反對者6人戰爭者少數提案沒有通過那我們進行審查好不好?這樣不能夠進行審查鳳凱主席我們有兩個臨時提案一個是拒審一個是還審對所以我們是不是要表決兩次表決兩次好剛才是處理拒審嘛好現在來處理還審兩個提案"},{"start":4149.516,"end":4175.382,"text":"反省上述問題未解決前支持反省的委員請舉手一、二、三,三位那支持不反省的委員請舉手一、二、三、四、五你們舉手不要動,舉高一點六位,看到了,謝謝"},{"start":4178.649,"end":4201.799,"text":"在場主席委員9人不含主席,贊成者3人,反對者6人,贊成者少數。提案不通過,進行審查。好不好?好,即日進行通常會、通常基金、有限廣電基金預算的處理。進行協商,同時請議事委員宣讀預算書及委員提案。"},{"start":4207.088,"end":4210.391,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":4238.753,"end":4258.829,"text":"審查113年度總預算案國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算委員提案資料為了讓氣氛和諧,休息五分鐘國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算提案立案國家通訊傳播委員會113年度預算行政官科送入證照費編列2976萬元,建議整列改善以上一千萬元提案的臨時限等。"},{"start":4273.631,"end":4277.032,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":4299.757,"end":4303.701,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":4317.355,"end":4344.452,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單四、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單六、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單七、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單八、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單九、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":4347.395,"end":4348.957,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":4362.395,"end":4387.698,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":4388.419,"end":4394.564,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":4666.789,"end":4687.365,"text":"好,來,坐好。坐好。選擇,請坐下來。坐下來。選擇你這表去修一下嘛,一分鐘都都是十分鐘。都壞了?台灣鐘表不好拿下來?"},{"start":4689.617,"end":4703.96,"text":"中國了嘛中國中表嘛好國家通訊傳播委員會113年度單位預算審查第一案輸入區縣委員有沒有意見區縣委員有沒有意見第一案輸入好要幫人舉手國家通訊傳播委員會18729萬3000元第四款財產收入第19項國家通訊傳播委員會169萬2000元"},{"start":4716.682,"end":4729.233,"text":"第七款其他收入第十九項國家通訊傳播委員會五列數。好,謝謝張偉。我本期提第一案是我們明年度NCC的行政規正照費的收入,編2900多萬。"},{"start":4732.276,"end":4736.898,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":4757.825,"end":4770.716,"text":"但我看過去三年的決算數影響幅度仍然有限那明年為什麼明年為什麼會突降那麼多我覺得是不是編列有一些保守因為你明年只編2900多萬比跟去年2022年的決算數減了50%"},{"start":4777.681,"end":4779.202,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":4795.74,"end":4822.796,"text":"主席還有各位最主要這個證照費是因為第一個我們去年那個數位部成立以後來講很多的這個電信的這個業務移轉給數位部那第二個就是說我們現在因為五家電信業者合併為三家所以它那個基地台的整併它那數量有減少所以我們當時預估的所以才把這個所謂的稅務的這個部分呢減少了大概30%這個部分是請我們處長跟各位委員報告一下"},{"start":4825.478,"end":4843.895,"text":"主席、各位委員大家好簡單報告一下就是說因為電信管理法就是在109年開始有一些執照的效期是3年變成5年那剛好明年的113年是剛好是整年的空窗期這個部分就會減少"},{"start":4844.696,"end":4873.925,"text":"那剛剛我們主委也有說明就是說五家業者合併了以後他的經濟台數量也會整併所以也會減少那競選委員給我們的指導我們會努力去做可不可以拙減一些這樣子謝謝好競選委員可以嗎跟你自己說拙減多少我們增加500來努力一下好謝謝第一案增加增累500萬第二至三案"},{"start":4876.454,"end":4882.538,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":4895.047,"end":4920.156,"text":"雖然我們在2023年1月有通過性影像釋法聯訪的法案給警察、檢察機關公權力要求行為人要刪除、交付、下架性影彈也要求網際網路平台對這個要有限制但實務上仍然發現你那一張性影像被上傳恐怕就是無法停止的噩夢讓被害人不斷地漏入恐懼和害怕"},{"start":4921.334,"end":4945.134,"text":"所以為了杜絕性影像的犯罪行為保障弱勢或者受害人這個共同提案是凍結500萬那等我們NCC提出積極的作為例如建置STOP NCII的資料庫防止性影像、私密影像不斷的反指就是說STOP NCII的這個影像"},{"start":4946.275,"end":4947.477,"text":"第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":4965.239,"end":4993.418,"text":"那實務上雖然我國目前有影像司法的聯訪但影像最怕就被傳到境外網站了那我們就無法可管為了保障這國人免受數位性暴力的威脅那提案凍結500萬請NCC協調相關部會提出針對境外網站私密影像下架的具體解決方法向本會提出報告後遲到動輒謝謝"},{"start":4995.499,"end":5022.04,"text":"好 二、繼續說明好 歐柏那個剛剛林俊杰委員有提到私密影像或者是私密影像其實還有一些影像是被不當的連結那也因為整個網際網路快速傳播的特殊性點滴率非常高我最近看到很多人就很多被不當連結"},{"start":5023.893,"end":5049.919,"text":"被連結到什麼做什麼做什麼的事情我認為這個都應該要積極管理那做不正當的連結這個是不是也可以未來是不是可以有什麼樣的一個防治措施我想NCC應該去做這樣子或者跟一個做不當連結這個也是造成很大的因素我想這個案子我是支持做這個凍結的一個處理"},{"start":5053.052,"end":5056.936,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":5071.715,"end":5089.426,"text":"那跟各位委員報告那這一件就是屬於性影像暴力性暴力數位性暴力的提案那數位性暴力事法今年在立法通過之後已經那個衛福部那邊成立性影像處理中心"},{"start":5090.066,"end":5114.984,"text":"所以現在是那個由衛福部在主政那我們這個這一件案子跟范委員辦公室那溝通那個那辦公室同意改成主決議那就是免於凍結然後修改那個凍結的文字還有那個經同意後時的通知這些文字然後同意我們來改成主決議那跟我委員報告"},{"start":5116.085,"end":5132.913,"text":"換委員是凍結還是改為主決議?改為主決議那不凍結了是不是?是是是歐破委員同意凍結啊這個要這樣子啦因為換委員他不是本委員會啊你不能爭取他同意然後我們也爭取我們同意就自己做這樣的一個表示"},{"start":5134.613,"end":5135.713,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播"},{"start":5159.019,"end":5175.647,"text":"委員們如果那個是不是可以改成主決議啊如果沒有辦法改成主決議的話我們是不是如果要凍結的話我們這個修正文字的部分來處理好就23案合併那那個那個那個案有的部分最後那個提出署名報告"},{"start":5176.367,"end":5178.128,"text":"第三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":5200.942,"end":5227.479,"text":"好 工作委員發言請舉手第四案的部分再請這個陳主委來說明一下因為在交通委員會看許智傑委員關心這個議題也跟陳主委有多所交換意見那今天也必須在預算處理的過程裡面針對這樣的一個議題提出一個基本的說明來好 學制委員"},{"start":5230.721,"end":5242.169,"text":"我們在交通委員會審預算那你會發現有一個狀況比如說有一些單位像這個公路局也好或是相關的這種行政機關哇那幾天加暗"},{"start":5246.232,"end":5269.812,"text":"就是這個也不知道要講他說是勇於認識還是怎麼樣台灣每年的罰單多達1400萬張然後繳的這個200億的這個罰單的收入那200億的收入也沒有再用在改善交通又來更加更多的測速照相那類似這樣的狀況"},{"start":5271.033,"end":5272.374,"text":"那NCC的狀況剛好顛倒你會看到這個NCC的監理的狀況的時候好像說"},{"start":5278.171,"end":5303.711,"text":"要處罰一個事情都是非常非常困難的九月八號到現在這個第五案我們的狀況就是說明明這就是已經這個系統這個媒體大亨啦然後已經是系統經營者不得與新聞頻道業者整合的紅線為無誤了那你還可以九月八號到現在連一個處分都沒辦法開出來"},{"start":5307.248,"end":5315.481,"text":"從外面來看的話如果你用這個例子來看的話覺得台灣真是一個世界上最尊重行政程序的國家這句話是諷刺"},{"start":5319.23,"end":5341.622,"text":"這件事情是覺得你到底是不想做事還是說你真的是這麼的遵守法治主義的要求那這個都已經明顯到這樣的狀況了那同樣道理剛剛林俊炫委員也提到說這個沒有罰則什麼有的沒的那其實一個行政處分一個非常簡單的道理"},{"start":5342.142,"end":5360.945,"text":"你今天像這個宏泰公益信託你五年你給他一個教育許可一個行政處分而且這個處分是一個受益性行政處分你給他一個授予這樣的利益的時候你有付款有負擔一十五億五年一十五億他只有捐個一事一事而已怎麼辦"},{"start":5362.099,"end":5385.096,"text":"撤銷交易許可就這麼簡單啊!行政法的第一課!還有呢?你到現在連去查也不去查料你說啊這個他如果未來沒有捐的話這義務是不會消失的啦齁這個可以用代金的方式處理靠夭啊!我如果是老闆我如果是財團老闆的話我當然不繳嘛!我當然一毛錢都不會繳啊!"},{"start":5386.537,"end":5391.223,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度"},{"start":5403.055,"end":5422.224,"text":"你應該最起碼的要有一個這個監理的角色那最起碼的這場這麼多委員為什麼都對NCC的表現都非常有意見因為我不要說你做一個監理的角色你連做一個行政機關的角色你都搞不清楚啊"},{"start":5422.944,"end":5447.195,"text":"到底NCC是一個行政機關呢?他應該是有公權力的所以今天才會坐在這邊我們來討論公務預算還是說你把自己定位成一個公司呢?還是一個協會呢?還是你是一個什麼樣的單位?我真的搞不清楚啊明明一個行政處分你就是接到這樣的一個案例事實之後"},{"start":5448.576,"end":5466.512,"text":"三、將近三個月沒辦法處理一個案件說交出一個調查報告27%裡面有12%還是不知去向然後明明在交易許可好幾百億的交易許可你一個處分下去給他一個受益性的行政處分讓他可以去做系統商結果他完全都沒有"},{"start":5467.613,"end":5492.788,"text":"這個按照他應該捐的錢去旅行的時候那你可以把它再推給教育部那人家教育部我覺得莫名其妙說靠夭啊這個是我的這個你你的行政處分剛我教育部屁事啊那在這種情況之下你還不願意去監理那到底是你的監理機關的職能是什麼啦我基本上真的是這個真的是要特體思考我覺得也要讓國人能夠了解"},{"start":5493.428,"end":5500.386,"text":"在NCC裡面做一個獨立的機關國人給他賦予多大的這個期待結果"},{"start":5502.265,"end":5528.712,"text":"連一個一般的在交通委員會裡面一般的這個交通的這一些的部會都還不如真的我覺得這真的是非常愧對國人的期待然後也對於說你今天要來要這個公務預算然後這麼多辛辛苦苦的人民的血汗錢交給你但是你沒有去做你最起碼的本分這是非常有愧這個職守的"},{"start":5530.892,"end":5550.082,"text":"好,好了沒有?所有人?結束?一分鐘了。哇靠夭啊,想夠久了。好,何欣辰召委,然後歐柏。謝謝,謝謝,不好意思,歐柏。"},{"start":5552.964,"end":5576.185,"text":"我的案子是在第8案跟第9案那這邊我還是在提醒我們NCC因為我們的主要業務之一是那個有線電視那我相信現場的各位甚至我們更年輕的一代很多家裡對有線電視的這個收視的這個機率應該越來越低為什麼?因為很難看"},{"start":5576.886,"end":5599.957,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5599.957,"end":5602.84,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5622.617,"end":5624.299,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5640.399,"end":5661.048,"text":"第二個案子是我第九案我還是認為說我們的數位新聞的產業報告既然我們六月已經有國外的公佈那公佈裡面國外的公佈裡面對於我們台灣這個閱聽眾的這個媒體的一個整體的信任度很低那當然這個可能有兩極化"},{"start":5662.589,"end":5691.266,"text":"所謂的兩極化這還有包括大量的一個訊息真真假假難以辨識那雖然造成大家對這個閱聽視聽的一個整體媒體的一個信任度是比較下降的那這個部分我們應該怎麼樣的來改善讓我們的這個只有民主的體制在媒體第四權的監督之下能夠是一個良性正面的一個監督之下可以建構良好的一個公共媒體的傳播市場"},{"start":5691.946,"end":5715.034,"text":"我覺得這個是要讓國人可以建構對媒體對第四權的一個信任那這個我也只要提一個小小的動靜希望能夠提醒NCC做到我們應該應盡的責任那這個所謂的自律的一個機制或者是評鑑或是換照等等用所有的政策工具可以來健全我們的媒體市場以上謝謝"},{"start":5715.894,"end":5718.556,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5737.93,"end":5754.468,"text":"對第一幕的一般行政的處理尤其是一般行政其實都是一般的人事行政費用或者是特別費或者一些基本行政的維持這個比較沒有真理用凍結方式那看看怎麼樣做順便的報告以後再做處理謝謝"},{"start":5759.822,"end":5780.857,"text":"謝謝主席那本席針對第6案就是我有聯署的這個提案就是針對NCC在明年度一般行政的預算7億251萬4千元這個預算本席是聯署同意這個凍結預算3000萬元的凍結案那主要是針對說這個電信詐騙的這個狀況真的是"},{"start":5786.741,"end":5788.202,"text":"兩、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5817.201,"end":5845.958,"text":"另外本席要針對就是邱賢志委員的這個第五案本席也是表達贊同就是說事實上我們NCC是獨立的機關所以對於整個這個電信監理的部分我們也希望NCC一定要依法行政不分男女不分這個就是要依他應該要執行的一個職權要讓我們的國人對這個媒體的第四權要有這個信任感"},{"start":5847.379,"end":5852.967,"text":"所以就是說不管是中加案或者是中廣,你一定要積極的處理,要有明確的一個結果,謝謝。"},{"start":5860.913,"end":5879.616,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5880.697,"end":5902.429,"text":"提出為何務須裁罰的理由及法律依據十五案也是一樣動特別費100%要求NCC針對善利宗家有違法股權移轉變動卻毫無所惜也是提出專案檢討報告"},{"start":5903.752,"end":5912.496,"text":"那16案是針對靜電室待於調查靜電室違法的專案報告以上三案"},{"start":5916.291,"end":5939.141,"text":"好,還有沒有委員發言?沒有齁。四到十七案。三檢的提案委員是許智傑委員,還有趙正義委員三檢齁。都沒有來。你要發言嗎還是?四到十七。"},{"start":5942.883,"end":5955.471,"text":"17、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算17年度中央政府總預算17年度中央政府總預算17年度中央政府總預算17年度中央政府總預算17年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5965.277,"end":5989.102,"text":"對於我們國民來說甚至我們交通委員會很多的委員到現在很多的細節到今天為止都還沒有釐清所以也許NCC認為解決了但是一大堆包括有些涉入司法的案件也還沒有釐清所以從這個爭議到今年開始的宗家案的一個移民我們看到NCC的作為"},{"start":5990.322,"end":6007.626,"text":"推、拖這整個的一個效率實在是非常差所以我們在這個案子這個部分特別在一般行政向下業務特別費提出凍結50%以上好謝謝盧委員發言你們NCC真的要檢討一下你看那個秋田盧委員"},{"start":6014.987,"end":6032.069,"text":"講到了嗎?頭上冒煙、鼻孔流血啊?聽不下去喔?宗家案這個簡簡單單的你們該處分就處分嘛我們開罰單你看開200億一下就開出去了你們開個案子那麼複雜還是你們的溝通程度很差還是怎麼樣?"},{"start":6033.733,"end":6048.813,"text":"事實擺在那裡說明一下來報告召委基本上來講的話我們就是依照這個調查報告做成後續的這個處分的問題這什麼時候嘛你們一直看不到啊沒有那這個當然我們報告先交出來以後來講我們就依照這個事實去處理嘛"},{"start":6049.698,"end":6071.927,"text":"當然他這個部分來講的話必須要處罰的部分並沒有說不處罰的處理差不多了沒有?你能透露一點嗎?我們這個書面報告已經處理得差不多了那接下來我們再想要不要處罰要怎麼處罰這個東西我們會來討論你看我們今天開會你今天早上聽說大清早把案子送來了昨天我們就送了啦我今天早上才看到的"},{"start":6073.408,"end":6074.809,"text":"你不能因為國民黨執政的時候你說"},{"start":6103.897,"end":6104.738,"text":"為什麼那麼多在野黨的委員質疑你們?"},{"start":6123.423,"end":6135.02,"text":"可能有些地方我們沒有說明清楚或有些地方可能是因為法律缺漏的部分那你說明一下剛才那個當委員的質疑你說明一下"},{"start":6138.224,"end":6154.318,"text":"關於剛才所講的幾個案子來講像中加這個案子來講我們因為從剛才委員檢舉以後來講我們就繼續去處理那跟委員報告一下我們NCC所掌握的資料最主要是他們的董監事還有5%以上的大股東的這個部分"},{"start":6154.895,"end":6177.876,"text":"那這個資料來講的話,我們當時來講,所有的完整資料是在經濟部那邊,所以我們看調資料其實是花了一段時間了,因為這個部分資料也不在經濟部,後來我們發覺是在基金保中心這邊才有辦法找到每一個細節的部分,這個是程序上跟委員報告一下。那第二個來講的話,就是說我們這個中間案裡面來講,查清楚有這個確寫的事實大家,那當然我們要依照法律依據去嚴處這個部分。"},{"start":6179.517,"end":6203.871,"text":"那第三個剛剛委員所講的這個宏泰這個部分來解說我們當時我剛才跟委員報告過說我們當時的跟他們的的請他們承諾的部分是說他們10年內提出40億裡面有10分之一是做媒體試讀或提升媒體品質這個部分這部分當然我們監理而且我們也確實落實監理這個部分也跟委員報告了那至於其他的13.5億就最近這5年來來講這個資料的確是在交易部這邊那我們會"},{"start":6208.354,"end":6210.955,"text":"委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播"},{"start":6231.784,"end":6237.562,"text":"三檢的部分也同意嗎?三檢的部分我們有跟委員溝通,委員有說同意免檢列"},{"start":6238.891,"end":6265.171,"text":"你講那個許志杰委員跟趙正偉對,我們有去溝通,他們有溝通有溝通過嗎?有,有溝通過你不要騙我,你騙我的話就不算喔我沒有,我沒有溝通過那不好意思,稍後我再補充報告,剛才那個潘哲偉要說那個許志杰你同意凍結3000萬嗎?對對對好,那個許志杰委員還是潘哲偉?謝謝昭偉,就不刪減啦但是還是凍結3000萬提出說明報告後解凍"},{"start":6265.791,"end":6282.34,"text":"不過還是主要還是要在這邊還是要具體簡單說明一下目前你們的政策的想法具體的規劃是什麼?是,剛才那個崑哲偉有提到這個部分來講的話關於有限電域區塊化這個部分來講的話我們在推動的確遇到一些困難這個系統業者來講的話他們認為這個支出太多"},{"start":6285.882,"end":6287.542,"text":"第5案、第7案就是凍結超過三千那就保留。"},{"start":6312.368,"end":6314.971,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6329.505,"end":6357.15,"text":"哈?沒有啊他這邊寫的是一個是7025萬一個是3512萬所以剛剛協志委員有交代就是如果沒有照這個就是就是保留保留其他的嘛欸保留其他的嘛這個這個沒有我剛剛就是就是這樣子第五第七啊啊其他沒有其他沒有沒有他有同意啦他同意東西啊"},{"start":6358.03,"end":6359.39,"text":"第14、15、16也保留"},{"start":6389.336,"end":6392.839,"text":"14、15、16、17保留然後剛剛5、7也保留5、7、14、15、16、175、7、14、15、16、17"},{"start":6410.444,"end":6412.365,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6430.086,"end":6432.148,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":6455.734,"end":6460.339,"text":"凍結3000萬凍結十分之一還要再保留?凍結十分之一再保留"},{"start":6470.049,"end":6493.083,"text":"我的三個案子保留,其他的案子通過我們意見。好啦,因為剛才協志委員在場的時候他沒有表示意見啊。他還沒有講三千萬的事情。有啊有啊,沒有照他凍結的數目。凍結三千萬是後面那個NC主委表示的數目。那現在不是說十分之一啊。"},{"start":6493.863,"end":6510.172,"text":"十分之一他就可以同意啊那個趙偉請問一下那剛才顯智偉是要凍結多少我看第五案嘛我看第五案十分之一啊是七千萬啊十分之一七千萬也沒問題吧"},{"start":6517.621,"end":6522.93,"text":"我們提出書面報告只有第五案喔只有第五案是凍結7000萬"},{"start":6524.704,"end":6525.884,"text":"第4到17案就做這樣的處理"},{"start":6554.864,"end":6568.722,"text":"然後第18案決議案18案有沒有意見遵照辦理遵照辦理通過19案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過20案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過21案21案這個我們可能沒有辦法"},{"start":6574.815,"end":6599.537,"text":"二十一案。那我們有跟婦棍球員去拜訪。那我們有跟婦棍球員去拜訪。那他有同意嗎?沒有。那如果沒有的話保留吧。好不好。好。二十一案保留。二十二案。也是一樣。我們沒有辦法那個。沒有辦法保留。二十二案保留。二十三案。也是。保留。二十四案。二十四案我們遵照辦理。遵照辦理通過。二十五案。"},{"start":6601.613,"end":6623.321,"text":"修改文字修改文字怎麼改?修改文字副根據委員有同意嗎?有有沒有他的那個簽名修改什麼?文字講啊進行研議及提供倒數的第二行第二行就是那個"},{"start":6625.181,"end":6638.548,"text":"進行研議後面加一個提高5G普及於使用率並於三個月內相加於交通委員會提出書面報告不是中央報告是書面報告。好,繼續審查通過。25、26"},{"start":6642.951,"end":6643.893,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":6656.775,"end":6675.873,"text":"倒數第六行嘛倒數第七行那個華光特區那是華光特區不是光華特區然後那個我們是建議那個倒數第四行為避免浪費公帑之使用還有豆點這個刪除然後那個倒數第四行那個積極兩個字我們這個也建議刪除積極刪除那就慢慢來喔"},{"start":6677.995,"end":6679.116,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6707.538,"end":6710.981,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":6733.64,"end":6737.333,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":6740.368,"end":6762.853,"text":"倒數第二行是改成國家通訊傳播委員會檢討現行監理機制改成檢討現行監理機制這幾個字好好好修正修正得過3434也是修正文字就是建制啟行或進行作為這是最後一行也跟委員這邊溝通過"},{"start":6770.197,"end":6772.098,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":6785.41,"end":6805.448,"text":"倒數的倒數的第四第四行那個我們現在因為已經沒有第二類電信業者這個電信事業這個我們感心你行動通訊業者而沒有這樣的用語了然後這個倒數第二行是要求一個月內針對防堵這而沒有"},{"start":6807.45,"end":6821.981,"text":"有沒有漏洞提出改善及加強防堵通訊詐騙之書面報告改成書面報告你這改的很厲害來拿給提案委員林俊賢委員看一下林俊賢有沒有可以喔好修正通過3737也是修正文字這也跟我們溝通過"},{"start":6831.288,"end":6833.17,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":6860.906,"end":6861.453,"text":"那現在是"},{"start":6865.65,"end":6891.186,"text":"各位累不累?不累就繼續喔累的話去休息啊繼續齁尊重各位委員的意見齁審查113年度總預算通訊傳播監督管理基金通傳基金齁附屬單位預算請各位翻開第一案第一案是李昆哲委員提案的基金用途專業服務費"},{"start":6896.209,"end":6900.207,"text":"這3.3百萬啊?郭教偉有沒有意見?"},{"start":6904.948,"end":6924.105,"text":"謝謝昭偉有關於通訊傳播監督管理基金的這個專業服務費113年度預算編列3億1619萬元那他主要的用途當然是辦理會議講座啦或者是專業培訓系統維護委託研究等11個計畫"},{"start":6927.008,"end":6948.07,"text":"但是我們沒有看到相關委託研究計畫的內容目標以及預計的效益跟它的具體的說明這個是在交通委員會我們一再督促這一些提出計畫的委辦計畫的相關的這些單位必須要有一個初步的說明都說國家有紀委然後這個"},{"start":6949.88,"end":6961.169,"text":"簡單的內容、目標、預計的效益都沒有說明清楚要怎麼要給你們預算呢?這個部分請你們來做說明我是建議3減300萬、凍結10%來看主委他們來做說明"},{"start":6967.291,"end":6988.918,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我們說明一下基本上來講的話剛剛委員所提示的是我們會再把這個東西跟委員做一些細節說明我們通訊團體基金基本上來講的話辦理的是相關有關於通訊跟傳播像比如說像電信或者像我們這個通訊傳播還有目前來講還有我們網際網路的傳播這個部分的這些相關的會議"},{"start":6989.798,"end":7010.052,"text":"那因為這個會議來講除了有一些固定以外有一些是依照我們的整個政策的變化去舉辦那的確我們這個細節部分應該跟立法院這邊再更具體的說明那不過因為這個整個的預算編的方式所以我們只能寫成這樣那我們是不是建議委員這個地方免疫檢列然後可不可以那就凍結10%然後改書面報告謝謝"},{"start":7014.795,"end":7026.723,"text":"好啦 報告召委就不刪減啦齁 凍結10%提書面報告好 第一案嘛齁 不刪減 凍結10%提書面報告 好不好第二至三案"},{"start":7029.988,"end":7051.137,"text":"我的是第三案就是113年度的專業服務費有關於這個材料及用品費預算變成721萬那比較之下比110年度的這個決算增加了139萬這是我們來考量這個相關的這個材料用品支出"},{"start":7052.357,"end":7064.966,"text":"應該是一個固定的支出預算尊潔編列之原則應該是以過去的決算跟預算來做一個編列的基礎這個等一下請他們來說明一下"},{"start":7070.174,"end":7070.954,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":7100.776,"end":7115.547,"text":"競選委員：坤澤委員：饒樹委員：依序謝謝章偉本期提議第六案是我們NCC明年度的出國預算425萬9千元這是近五年來編列最高的"},{"start":7117.099,"end":7122.723,"text":"通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":7145.216,"end":7146.457,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":7163.65,"end":7189.278,"text":"本席建議像這種出國費用應該予以三減一百萬並且凍結十分之一通常NCC三個月內針對如果改善你這個基金的收支財務狀況的專案報告後才能凍結本席要提第九案第九案就是NCC的專案服務費變成一千六百四十萬這筆預算就是跟詐騙有關係的"},{"start":7193.027,"end":7220.414,"text":"例如跟陌生來電、辨識軟體Who's Call跟刑事警察局合作等等我們了解2022年全國的詐騙簡訊的辨識量約有4764萬封詐騙簡訊為什麼會那麼多其中主要原因是因為第二類電信業者現在他們都不列管都不受NCC管理了"},{"start":7221.997,"end":7242.309,"text":"甚至有爆發第二類電信業者海峽電信直接跟詐騙集團合作提供門號幫助詐欺現行的電信管理法第二類電信業者是變成登記制NCC沒有辦法直接進行管理大概只能用一些行政命令"},{"start":7243.7,"end":7268.13,"text":"每次等於道德勸說啦要求業者要落實什麼風險管理這根本就是根本就是廢話啊因為業者為了賺錢啊他賣門號啊他怎麼可能會幫你原本政府該做的事情去辨識誰使用他的門號難怪詐騙那個簡訊那麼數量那麼嚇死人啊那而且這筆錢啊每一年都花光啊執行率都85%有超過100%的但是這種詐騙訊息就越來越多啊"},{"start":7272.813,"end":7291.045,"text":"所以北京建議,因此應該積極作為來填補法律的漏洞不能再讓第二類電機業者成為防堵詐騙的破口建議本預算3.5百萬凍結文資一個月內從法制面提出如何進行防堵詐騙,專案報告後才能通知"},{"start":7292.577,"end":7311.183,"text":"好,謝謝委員會議好,謝謝趙委員我的是第4案113年度我們有關於通訊傳播監理政策企劃計畫預算編列2916萬元那它主要是用在辦理通訊傳播監理政策的規劃"},{"start":7312.623,"end":7330.442,"text":"委託研究、調查計畫當然目前基於通訊傳播的途徑其實它的發展越來越多元有關的規範其實還不是很完備這個部分通常會應該要清楚的說明請他們來做說明阿蘇委員"},{"start":7337.333,"end":7342.099,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那本期提的是第11案。針對通傳基金,那在113年度通訊傳播監理政策計畫,有編列了2916萬6千元的預算。"},{"start":7351.852,"end":7360.66,"text":"主要是辦理通訊傳播監理政策規劃等等那我們也知道這幾年來這個詐騙警訊真的是鋪天蓋地然後造成民眾的這個金錢的損失還有這個受騙的人數可以說是有增無減"},{"start":7368.286,"end":7377.213,"text":"這個我們都一再的在提所以我們希望就是說我們ACC應該對於這個國內的電信業者要去加強要求他們加強攔阻及警示這個國際電話詐騙這樣子的一個簡訊這個我們要積極的而且要有效的去要求"},{"start":7386.5,"end":7403.445,"text":"所以我們我這邊是提這個凍結案凍結200萬元的一個凍結案我是希望通傳會對於詐騙的這個新型態手法及管制策略這邊必須要有一個具體的一個方案跟策略那希望能夠提出書面報告後使得動之好我們合作會"},{"start":7407.635,"end":7414.979,"text":"謝謝主席學生召委我只是在補充剛剛幾位委員我的體驗雖然在後面但是因為這個電信詐騙真的是防不勝防我記得主委之前在我們的這個質詢的這個時間內有回答我們跟數位發展部有合作技術合作那你們也道德勸說透過我們政策工具去要求各大民營的電信業者來配合"},{"start":7435.871,"end":7437.593,"text":"兩、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":7450.479,"end":7469.766,"text":"還有人收到那你說你跟各大電信業者說已經講好了也跟所謂的他們委外的代鈔這個簡訊的業者也說也規範在內了也不會再發生了機率會降低了可是你知道嗎最近這一陣子那個自來水水費的詐騙簡訊跟台電電費的詐騙簡訊真的是讓我們政府臉上無光你已經宣示了數位發展部"},{"start":7476.889,"end":7499.917,"text":"也說技術資源的你也都說說好了政府防詐阻詐結果最近流傳的這兩則簡訊這個叫做破功所以你要好好去查說自來水水廢跟台電國營事業的這樣子的一個詐騙的一個通知第一個當然是冒用國營事業第二個一個要做到那個簡訊內容來給給給給給到錢的樣子"},{"start":7506.22,"end":7533.058,"text":"數位發展副的唐鳳部長說明年一月之後呢要用政府的111政府簡訊的一個這樣子的一個系統來發送但是我是要跟你主委講明年一月能不能如期上路我不知道啦但是如果沒有辦法如期上路起碼在現在11月到1月如果沒有辦法如期上路又要再延個三個月或是再延個半年光是這"},{"start":7534.358,"end":7558.665,"text":"幾個月當中這個我們政府難道都無能為力嗎這民眾大家對我們政府的防詐真的是沒什麼信心了啦所以諸位你要去檢討一下那個自來水水費跟台電的電費這樣子一個詐騙的一個簡訊到底是從哪裡來的到底是哪一個系統發送的是不是好不好謝謝"},{"start":7561.107,"end":7577.99,"text":"好,還有沒有委員發言?沒有,二、繼續說明一下。是,那個,跟委員會報告。那首先呢,就那個二類電信的這一部分的話,我們已經都納入管理了。所以這一塊啊,那個,將來透過那個,就是說不受管理這一塊,我們已經來處理了。"},{"start":7578.831,"end":7580.972,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":7602.867,"end":7614.899,"text":"我們要的是現在的執行成果怎麼樣?你講半天。你覺得電信詐騙有改善嗎?你講半天有用嗎?民怨高漲。每個人幾乎每天都必然都一定會接到詐騙電話。而且他們的技術越來越好。"},{"start":7628.885,"end":7631.591,"text":"對不對?啊他的技術比例好很多啦。啊你要怎麼這麼防篤啦?說不出話題。"},{"start":7641.249,"end":7643.49,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算"},{"start":7668.089,"end":7669.576,"text":"我知道我知道就因為因為這個詐騙結果你"},{"start":7672.816,"end":7697.75,"text":"網路這個東西來講有時候他不是走我們國內的這個電信的這個部分我們該抓所以說我們本來就是跟不是啊他還是偷偷手機的檢測如果這樣喔你跟委員會報告你要如何改善電競差別你就下了啊說你沒辦法啊說有網路有網路來的你你就推給數碼部啊沒有沒有我們電信該做網路也要做啊我們並沒有說要推卸責任我們本來這個東西不是說要推卸責任你現在上網路有什麼意思"},{"start":7698.49,"end":7698.95,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":7724.019,"end":7741.671,"text":"首先那個就RCS這塊我人在問的這塊是屬於啊Google那邊所提供的RCS的這一塊因為它是國際間的這個傳輸標準啦那對於RCS它是透過網際網路的傳輸那你的意思是說各定性業者跟那個所謂的這個他們都完全無人為力嗎都沒有辦法啊現在我們的措施第一步"},{"start":7742.131,"end":7742.912,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":7758.753,"end":7771.098,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":7783.502,"end":7785.363,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":7810.165,"end":7838.297,"text":"啊還要做到什麼時候呢?你如果說新的東西你現在還在處理?像你詐騙啦,已經橫行台灣多年你現在還在跟我講,你在跟什麼單位協調,跟什麼單位商量現在我們電話打開有沒有?不只自來水喔,很多喔我這裡每天都要我去領獎品啊每天都有生意,奇怪天天要我領獎品,我都不敢看啦我開也不敢開,開也不敢看"},{"start":7841.977,"end":7864.251,"text":"看一下就不行啊看一下你要打開啊打開我不曉得會不會被詐騙啊現在只要有疑慮就千萬不要打開就是這種方法打開就會被詐騙喔不曉得但是至少來講要降低那個風險這個就是一種試圖的做法就是防避免詐欺的一種試圖做法現在搞得我們現在錢都不敢存在銀行也不敢存在郵局現金還偷偷擺在哪裡只能這樣"},{"start":7866.448,"end":7871.211,"text":"那陳主委你要不要承認你真的是無能?主管是誰啦?你有沒有機會回答勒?"},{"start":7882.132,"end":7907.031,"text":"報告委員會跟軍訓委員這邊報告其實電信詐騙大概有兩大塊一個就是電話另外一個是簡訊的部分但是在訊息傳遞上面還有一個這個Apple提供的IMH還有一個現在就是Google的那個叫RCS那在這個不管是電話或者訊息的部分那在Google這邊我們現在也跟他"},{"start":7908.772,"end":7923.118,"text":"來聯絡請他們在協助RCS傳送上面的能夠做一些貢獻出來那剛剛金縣委員所垂涎的剛剛召委所垂涎的部分就是水費那個目前在透過電信事業網路傳遞的簡訊的部分"},{"start":7925.459,"end":7943.308,"text":"電信界都有配合在做相關的攔阻我們也積極請電信界來做那至於有關於所謂的這個現在看到的RCS的部分那目前在整個傳遞的過程裡面就要類似於Apple當初的模式來請Google來積極來配合辦理以上說明"},{"start":7947.065,"end":7955.411,"text":"好,那個...繼續還有講話...好...我...我...我那邊在...然後積極作為給他電競詐騙...你們去做就好了啦我們每次手機打開都會騙得一塌糊塗是不是?啊不然你自己臉書封面你自己寫一下電競詐騙是我主管"},{"start":7971.343,"end":7985.025,"text":"你寫了很多人 你每天 喔 很紅喔每天接到一十萬、兩萬通訊的話你做得很好 你做得很好 你就讓大家知道啊我跟你說 你NCC的名 機關名聲很吵"},{"start":7986.81,"end":7990.674,"text":"一分鐘啦 我覺得很丟臉欸我提醒一下齁 你剛剛講剛才說 我有署長說你這個電信詐騙是一種訊息齁剛剛何欣淳委員說 現在又有新的訊息嘛"},{"start":8004.526,"end":8030.881,"text":"結果你的回答是說因為這個是Google這個不是傳統的電信業者有的沒的我覺得你這個都是推脫之詞嘛你這個來源第一個就是說來源是不是都只是你講的那個好那即便你講的那個的話那你的對策是什麼嘛那針對如果是中華電信或是說國內的這些電信業者的這個簡訊或是電話那你的對策是什麼"},{"start":8031.661,"end":8056.491,"text":"因為這個很明顯就是說老人家在家裡那很多你說那個網路的等等之類的臉書什麼的那是另外一件事嘛但是有沒有存在著打電話來然後因為老人家在家裡我們長輩在家裡或者是說這個因為這樣而被詐騙的還是所在多有嘛所以你應該是說所有的方法都用上"},{"start":8057.431,"end":8080.091,"text":"假設今天他是透過網路的 你要怎麼對測但是用傳統的電話在詐騙的現在在台灣發生的這些案件還是所在多有啊所以針對這些訊息這些這個簡訊也好或是這個電話來的那你的對測是什麼 你不可以說你就輕巧的一句說那個就是從網路來的"},{"start":8082.606,"end":8103.958,"text":"你這個就是你沒有一個積極的態度人家沒有看到說你真的有一個很積極的態度要去處理這個事情現在連大家已經不敢台灣人都不敢接電話了然後這個問題就是說表示說還是有一大堆是透過這個來我自己都會接到了所以你應該去正視這個問題然後你的對策嘛"},{"start":8118.76,"end":8132.707,"text":"我現在打開我的手機10點27分我的鄉親有人跟我陳情昨天晚上他們家人被通知機車停車費未繳然後就看著簡訊裡面的網路連結就給他點進去說要繳費40塊結果他的帳戶裡面的存款"},{"start":8138.61,"end":8139.37,"text":"通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":8165.848,"end":8167.229,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":8189.802,"end":8207.917,"text":"欸NCC你們喔每天每個禮拜分別到紀念委員、邱賢志委員、何靖遠召委這邊去報告他告訴你新的題目你這個小事啊人家還恐嚇說你兒子在我這裡很安全啊我說你去死啊我還沒有生兒子勒"},{"start":8213.907,"end":8227.973,"text":"趙偉我還是要請那個主委要正視你的無能啊我還是要強調主委你的無能你代理你從紀念式案、三立宗教案到現在詐騙案你根本就是沒有辦法解決啊"},{"start":8229.6,"end":8255.594,"text":"所以你應該辭職下台啊跟召委報告一下基本上我們這個詐騙案這是全球性我們會繼續努力的就像打擊犯罪是無時無刻都要去努力的事情那犯罪的形態一直在改變當中我們會全力以赴繼續去努力這個事情謝謝交好委員讓你下來你要不要下來不要交好委員他不叫他"},{"start":8256.674,"end":8259.617,"text":"主委打不還手罵不還狗可以啦你把預算講一講來4到11案怎麼樣"},{"start":8287.25,"end":8288.331,"text":"第四案我們是主要辦理"},{"start":8302.671,"end":8304.673,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8318.744,"end":8322.527,"text":"國外旅會怎樣免篩檢?國外旅會不用多最近五年來編最多的捏跟委員報告一下最近為什麼有一個跟委員報告一下"},{"start":8339.8,"end":8340.301,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8354.731,"end":8355.811,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":8384.844,"end":8387.05,"text":"我們一樣對塑化部也是嚴格審查嘛"},{"start":8392.847,"end":8394.227,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":8419.389,"end":8422.232,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8431.35,"end":8457.561,"text":"詐騙案一樣很嚴重啦我們先跟委員報告一下其實我們除了詐騙以外包括網際網路安全你對什麼的監理案的監理一樣是這解放了就有啦那還有一個專業服務費那分開處理啊還有私密影像還有iWIN這個錢我們這個跟國際我們最近要參加那個時候ECFD是英國發起的全球性的組織這相關的國際費用真的很多我們才編400多萬其實金額真的已經很少了再砍100萬"},{"start":8458.701,"end":8459.342,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度"},{"start":8481.229,"end":8486.371,"text":"三、二十萬可以嗎?我幫你們爭取了二十萬而已好 謝謝 謝謝二十萬二十萬"},{"start":8506.271,"end":8509.034,"text":"第三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬"},{"start":8529.338,"end":8543.56,"text":"三五百萬預算案?預算案我三五百萬凍結五分之一因為這個就是專門在做電信詐騙的就做最爛的這個啊委員你叫我去打詐騙要去預算好啊你前幾天執行你都報問題報幾天要有動態你"},{"start":8545.461,"end":8546.963,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8567.242,"end":8591.128,"text":"整個社會的現況你不能說你做多少我有進步多少問題是現在詐騙沒有更嚴重嗎犯罪集團改變我們也要改變我們的戰法這個戰爭就是這樣子一定是這樣子處理吧一定是改變他的戰術所以我們是建議說打造的費用不要刪減這本來你要凍結我們可以接受但是打造我是講你們到底做還是不做你不做的話1640萬全部把它收起來"},{"start":8591.328,"end":8592.229,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":8615.8,"end":8643.705,"text":"主席你覺得他們打、打詐做得很好嗎?我們要看,那一來要繼續努力,可能不,那個該委員都不滿意你知道每一年,每一年你都繼續努力我接都不敢接電話,我麻木了對啊,說你兒子被綁架了你看我沒有兒子的問題啊對啊,所以詐騙很嚴重啊我剛剛想你去死啊你啊我是說連詐騙,對,我說連你自己都感受到電訊詐騙的嚴重啊不是,各自啦本來不能洩露的啊,不然人家也不知道我也沒有兒子"},{"start":8648.083,"end":8663.084,"text":"昆德人你叫什麼?你對我這樣是一種...你這樣對我是侮辱啊好啦,三點一百萬好啦好同意啦好不好"},{"start":8665.137,"end":8679.325,"text":"五百萬三點一百萬欸好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦"},{"start":8682.715,"end":8708.135,"text":"數面報告數面報告齁對啦然後第六案數面報告有解弄第六案剩三八十萬什麼剩二十萬到底二十還八十是我嘴巴講是我嘴巴不對還是你們耳朵不對他幫你們省二十萬啦從一百萬變成三八一公"},{"start":8714.011,"end":8718.179,"text":"他說他說我只三二十萬啊。沒有啊。"},{"start":8730.973,"end":8744.359,"text":"不是我的問題,是巨建委員的問題懂了沒有好啦,三、二十萬啦,三、二十萬欸杜吉,啊你三、二十萬快就三,你給我做牌了我不知道是我有講錯還是我有弱壞啦你不是說三、一百萬?"},{"start":8745.988,"end":8746.989,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8775.854,"end":8778.381,"text":"第六案3.20萬第九案3.100萬其他凍結十分之一"},{"start":8788.604,"end":8797.027,"text":"主席你第6案是3-80萬你第6案是3-80萬對嘛我重新宣告了20萬剛剛我剛剛一直我們聽到的是3-80萬好啦好啦他們兩位委員有意見齁我重新再宣告一次3-80萬因為他們兩位委員打我以為我打不過他沒有我只是在提醒主席"},{"start":8817.614,"end":8819.475,"text":"第12至第13案區議員委員謝謝主席本集題第13案是我們通能基金明年度的資訊管理專業服務費編的6990萬"},{"start":8840.017,"end":8857.366,"text":"那麼你這筆預算明年是有大幅度的增加113年度是增加了2182萬就是比前年來比的話你2022年你才編4700你明年度就要編到6900"},{"start":8860.154,"end":8875.521,"text":"但是你今年的預算我了解一下你到10月底的執行率只有38為什麼今年執行率那麼低你今年執行率到10月底只有38%然後你明年度的預算又要大幅增加你在預算書的說明欄並沒有對這個部分有所解釋"},{"start":8880.563,"end":8894.054,"text":"這個所以本期建議那這筆預算是不是三減五百萬凍結五分之一齁請你們提專案報告後才能凍結凍結五分之一凍結五分之一三不三我提案是三五百萬三五百萬"},{"start":8898.771,"end":8912.183,"text":"說明那個報告委員會齁那因為資訊費用主要還是在11、12月會動資所以到目前到10月的動資只有不到一半的情形是這樣來的38%到10月底只有38%對那其實上我們這邊你們這個委員會這邊拿到的是38%我們這邊比較"},{"start":8920.41,"end":8924.434,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":8936.166,"end":8960.09,"text":"所以並不是說因為我們都沒有動資啦所以說因為只要是今年度的費用大概都資訊費用大概會在11、12月動資啦大概這樣那另外就是說我們今年度113年會有增加是因為配合政府在推動所謂的資安相關的一個措施所以我們基金會才會增加那我們就是建議說請居委同意我們不要刪減凍結這個500萬"},{"start":8965.322,"end":8980.877,"text":"好主席主席好那同意啦齁如果不刪減的話但你要把你那個預算執行率低那你到年底你說可以資金到多少你要用書面報告給我們喔好所以先凍結500萬喔你執行率不到一半喔42%啦"},{"start":8985.563,"end":9008.07,"text":"好 那就不刪了齁那就12、13案病案他要凍結啦凍結500萬病案凍結刪減改凍結啦然後他要提書面報告啦刪減改凍結500萬第13案他凍結五分之一就一千多萬了餒沒有沒有我們就看他報告怎麼寫你寫報告你要負責嘛那第12案勒我說12、13案病案處理啦"},{"start":9016.505,"end":9019.148,"text":"十二十三案病案處理凍結十分之一五百萬前面是十二億前面是兩億兩億凍結五百萬這基礎設置嗎凍結五百萬太少了吧"},{"start":9043.772,"end":9068.062,"text":"他講錯了啦,他就講第13案啦。他沒有講到第12案。各位委員報告,這支計畫的2億經費裡面有很多是省燕費,它是收支對列的項目。那第二個部分就是資訊管理費的專業服務費。你說第12案是收支並列?有些項目是收支並列,就將近1億的支出跟收入對列。那第二個部分資訊管理的專業服務費。你說並列都結500萬喔?"},{"start":9072.043,"end":9084.089,"text":"雖然太少了吧因為委員因為前面第一案通案已經把我們的專業服務費凍結百分之十已經在這邊對於資訊管理的專業服務費凍結五百萬那中央報告齁 解凍順便報告 順便報告 解凍齁好 第十四 第十五案 卿卿委員"},{"start":9096.405,"end":9115.14,"text":"謝謝主席本集題第14案是我們明年度平台事業監理計畫編了2134萬那這個主要就是對有線電視的一個監理那其實我們了解有線電視許可執照期限是9年那中央主管機關應該每3年辦理一次評鑑"},{"start":9117.141,"end":9139.178,"text":"業者應該要提營業額的1%作為我們有線電視廣播的發展基金這樣的一個監理的狀況下臺北市為什麼發生某業者短報長達10年的營業收入有1億6800多萬一直到2021年才被抓到才被裁罰400萬"},{"start":9141.925,"end":9166.211,"text":"該業者在短報期間還經我們NCCP評鑑都是合格的都是優良的你這樣的一個監理評鑑我覺得根本就是沒有落實所以我覺得評鑑結果根本沒有辦法反映真實問題一個隱藏營業收入那麼久的業者長達10年這個評鑑期間每次都是優秀"},{"start":9171.738,"end":9198.724,"text":"然後我們再來看到2022年底全國64家有線電視業者仍然有9家的營運計畫根本沒有經過通常會的評鑑審查比例達到14%所以我本期認為平台柱在審查執行的效能非常不好建議刪減預算400萬凍結四分之一一個月內提如何處理平台評鑑不實提專案報告才能凍結以上"},{"start":9202.216,"end":9205.798,"text":"第15項平台事業監理計劃預算系統業者不能與頻道業者整合"},{"start":9223.609,"end":9225.992,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":9240.911,"end":9266.399,"text":"那就這個部分的話NCC既有的這個監理的措施還有就是說這個對於這個監理的角色的定位跟自我認識顯然都出現非常嚴重的問題所以我們希望這個案動10%那就NCC如何去強化反媒體壟斷的監管提出政策精進作為跟相關的計畫之後使得動之"},{"start":9270.731,"end":9277.332,"text":"好,其他委員有沒有意見?好,那我們就請NCC來做說明"},{"start":9281.539,"end":9300.659,"text":"委員會報告就是有關我們評鑑是依照有關法30條那系統經營者他在經營滿三年的話就要進行一次評鑑那評鑑的話是把過去三年經營的時機就是整理成一個書面報告那我們業管收到這個書面報告之後呢我們就會先進行他的形式審查"},{"start":9301.52,"end":9314.09,"text":"看看有沒有問題就是有沒有缺件然後會會同我們地方政府一起去做實地查核那實地查核之後所得的資料會並同評鑑報告書再提到我們的外部的評鑑換照諮詢文會由專業的這個學者專家來進行審查"},{"start":9317.872,"end":9342.65,"text":"檢查之後他們會做成評鑑等地的建議比如說合格優良還是限期改正那之後會送到我們的委員會議再進行做成決議所以整個流程其實是蠻嚴謹那相關的時間大概也是要花4到6個月正常的話所以就是有關先回答剛剛就是提到的那個111年受理的7家這個其實都已經辦理完畢只是因為他有一個處理的程序所以"},{"start":9343.971,"end":9360.639,"text":"這個資料上可能是顯示說在當年年底並沒有完成但是根據我們的資料在111年底因為只有前面兩家業者是我們是二月受理那後面的五家都是在11月12月受理所以整個辦理的流程會到112年那這個點先跟委員會說明"},{"start":9363.26,"end":9365.844,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9378.604,"end":9379.925,"text":"通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算"},{"start":9400.009,"end":9403.252,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":9424.008,"end":9439.901,"text":"不好意思這個部分來講的話我們因為有這個案例以後來講的話就去落實去處理了這個我們後來有請學專家加入我們這個財務集合的部分以上跟委員報告了14案的這個部分我們會繼續努力把這個事情做謝謝好請您進行委員發言"},{"start":9442.034,"end":9468.633,"text":"剛剛主委說的要把這個事情做好對有線電視的監理今天開會氣氛這麼不好就是你的業務嘛中加案就是你應該你要管的嘛那我請教剛秋原志偉那個提案他裡面有寫到的就是說我們的有線電視就算你沒有買賣股權沒有移轉你是不是每固定時間好像三個月就要跟NCC主動申報你的股權結構是不是這樣子"},{"start":9471.018,"end":9491.999,"text":"不用買賣也要申報因為才會了解你的股東結構有沒有改變所以我們的規定其實是很嚴格的你不用有任何買賣你每三個月要跟我NCC申報一次那中家他賣掉是不是他應該要主動申報因為他股東結構改變了對不對他為什麼敢沒有申報"},{"start":9493.564,"end":9512.113,"text":"他不知道要申報嗎?這目中無法,根本就沒有你NGG的存在嘛。那賣方要申報的啦,是不是中間要申報?那你NGG為什麼說你沒有查到,因為是被踢爆你才知道?因為他第三層股東你沒有辦法監理。這是你說的嗎?這是誰講的?你平台處講的是不是?我聽到主委。第三層股東你沒有辦法監理喔?"},{"start":9520.425,"end":9542.635,"text":"你當時是這麼講 你們機關是這麼講我們是查到那個第二層 那是因為我們那個申報裡面是百分之五以上股東的這個變化 這個是法律裡面有規定那這個不可能 你們就推卸責任 黨政區議題是查到最終收益人當然是查到最終的股東收益人啊 不然你黨政區議題你怎麼執行 我們就是這樣執行"},{"start":9543.655,"end":9561.249,"text":"但是事情發生就是說你遇到這個問題你不要面對要處理啊你推卸責任上面第三層股東你沒辦法我們會好好把這個處理好這平台主說的嗎這你說的嗎那你剛講半天什麼你會好好監理你自己該辦的業務都做不好那你對宗教後續的處理主委你有報告喔"},{"start":9563.7,"end":9564.94,"text":"兩、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9594.338,"end":9622.677,"text":"所以所以主席我我認為我對預算有意見就是因為也對他們執行相關的案件監理以來啊像那個像那個宗家案那個那個等等相關的問題這些所累積的啦所以我才認為你看你監理做得那麼不好所以我才提預算刪減還有凍結案好以上好謝謝林委員其他委員有沒有意見"},{"start":9624.173,"end":9652.91,"text":"現在到十幾?十四、十五嗎?那主席我的是十七、十八、十九、二十。還沒到那裡,我們現在先處理十四、十五。好,謝謝。提供這、還提供這、也要媽做、還要媽做。我們先處理十四、十五。來,十四、十五,剛才NCC有要再做補充說明嗎?"},{"start":9657.798,"end":9668.469,"text":"14、15案是併案處理建立預算的刪減,年居姓委員是提400萬平台事業經理計畫還是有相關的業務推動所需的經費"},{"start":9676.858,"end":9694.173,"text":"那是不是我們不要刪減不知道林俊興委員所以刪減啊所以刪減啊那就秉持剛才八十萬的原則可不可以我提四百捏"},{"start":9694.733,"end":9696.413,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":9724.6,"end":9733.426,"text":"到二十二16到二十二案來委員請發表陳江華委員好那17到22也是針對中加3D"},{"start":9741.952,"end":9742.713,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督"},{"start":9760.72,"end":9761,"text":"同意嗎?"},{"start":9777.29,"end":9789.134,"text":"十七、我們當時來講,我記得是要提書面報告嗎?沒有提狀況報告這個問題了。好,那我們就保留。好,尊重委員,我們就先保留。來,我們現在進行。18,同意嗎?"},{"start":9795.293,"end":9815.345,"text":"16案好像沒有處理16案是不是要16案有沒有16案是魯明哲委員不好意思魯明哲委員來你們有沒有意見我們遵照辦理遵照辦理那現在進行23到30案主席剛剛17、28、19、20、21、22都保留了你剛才不是說"},{"start":9820.24,"end":9821.161,"text":"現在是23案到30案網際網路的傳播計畫"},{"start":9841.855,"end":9868.162,"text":"來 林俊憲委員陳樹岳委員感謝主席本期提議第二次商案是明年度NCC的網際網路傳播計畫編了3357萬那這筆預算呢主要是因為我設計一個網際網路傳播辦公室來強化網路平台業者自律等等的相關業務"},{"start":9870,"end":9894.494,"text":"但是我看到現在所謂的一些詐騙的廣告都是在網路平台在氾濫的實在是不像話尤其像臉書這些平台業者只知道收廣告費賺錢對於內容幾乎毫不設防那基本上這樣的防止除了我們官方的予以要求以外業者自律非常重要"},{"start":9896.161,"end":9915.229,"text":"所以你設立這個辦公室目的就是強化網路平台業者自律但是我看你相關工作的第一個人最重要你這個緣額編制是40個人到今年11月只用23個你40給你錢你人也招不滿為什麼"},{"start":9917.83,"end":9921.474,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":9939.383,"end":9950.746,"text":"而且你禁用人員也到今年11月為止也禁用不足幾乎只有禁用一半所以本席認為通常會對這個計畫說明不夠也沒有積極值來執行建立3500萬並且凍結四分之一一個月內提出該項計畫的詳細執行規劃專案報告法參動之謝謝好現在請陳樹葉委員"},{"start":9963.507,"end":9983.234,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9983.294,"end":9985.155,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":9998.504,"end":10027.137,"text":"目前沒有辦法就是像有線廣播電視或者是衛星廣播電視有相關的法規來予以管制所以在這個部分我們是希望就是這個NCC針對網際網路視聽服務管理法的部分在研擬的時候針對於這個有關整個就是影視的節目包括中國節目的管制本土節目的保障等等這部分要予以去就是"},{"start":10027.697,"end":10030.038,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算"},{"start":10044.023,"end":10068.931,"text":"帶邱委員來說明那這個案子也是有關網路傳播網路平台業者監管的這個問題那現在在詐騙假訊息猖獗但是我們看到計畫編列就是9乘3是委外所以有失職的嫌疑所以"},{"start":10069.691,"end":10085.166,"text":"就是凍結10%的預算兩個月內提網際網路傳播政府監理量能對於平台業者建立相關法制之具體立法計畫提出書面報告使得動之。"},{"start":10087.335,"end":10115.391,"text":"好 那我的是第27案等一下請NCC一併來做說明那我們113年度的網際網路的傳播計畫坦白說這個計畫是很重要的那預算編約3557萬元那用途當然是包括辦理網路傳播及推動多方的利害關係人的一個機制那強化網路平台業者的自律掌握網路傳播的一個趨勢"},{"start":10116.832,"end":10138.641,"text":"但是我還是要提醒主委我們這個計畫多數都是以委託的這樣的一個研究計畫舉辦會議或是委辦服務來進行預算書當中我一直在提醒我們是要具體的說明這些具體的方式跟預期的效益到底是什麼"},{"start":10140.303,"end":10148.52,"text":"我是建議動解事發提出說明報告後解讀請到委員如果沒有意見來做說明各位委員"},{"start":10150.731,"end":10177.216,"text":"主任那跟那個各位委員報告那剛才先回應那個林委員他提出的就是說我們人員禁用的問題那我們是網傳辦是在4月中旬掛牌然後就先由那個其他出事的同仁來支援這初期是11位然後呢我們就是積極的在每一季就辦外補"},{"start":10178.456,"end":10207.845,"text":"那外部因為這個網際網路的人才專業人才其實是有限的從各部會還有從地方政府挖角其實其實是有一些困難然後這一部分要特別跟委員報告那我們也報了考試分發那考試分發要到年底就是說現在考試分發到那個今年12月應該會有那個增補到4位那我們"},{"start":10208.405,"end":10209.827,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播"},{"start":10220.785,"end":10238.917,"text":"委辦費因為網際網路的治理不同於其他那個廣電的監理的所以那個其他國家也是如此辦理所以都是在跟多方利害關係人參與溝通有些是以平等對話的地位來來處理那那個針對"},{"start":10241.218,"end":10244.001,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":10260.015,"end":10262.757,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":10282.312,"end":10283.353,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":10299.59,"end":10320.559,"text":"針對自殺防治的議題先做一個打地基做一個申訴系統這些大概目前是編列1200萬那將來還是有其他的議題再跨部會再溝通那從做申訴的系統那這些都是都是需要一些相關的經費那所以懇請各位委員支持"},{"start":10322.128,"end":10326.033,"text":"網際網路傳播計畫是因為去年主改後本會新建的計畫網際網路現在的問題真的是層出不窮除了剛才所講的打詐以外來講還要不要吸引下這個議題還要不要扼騷保護這個議題"},{"start":10340.37,"end":10363.976,"text":"所以這些來講的話必須有一定的經費去處理那為什麼會有到93%這個問題就是因為我們在像IWIN這個機制都有固定的支出這是合照法46的規定那我們是幾個機關共同編列經費去委有像是比如說現在是臺北市電腦公關去處理這相關的而且是有一定的成效那這個部分來講也請委員支持謝謝"},{"start":10367.995,"end":10393.076,"text":"好,謝謝,請陳志偉各位再講清楚,你委員會判費用高達93%你剛剛那個部分可不可以再講清楚因為你幾乎這個預算全部都放到外面去做,這不是我們自己要做的業務嘛為什麼要委員會,這個不用說明一下跟委員報告,就是說像我們要辦理的網際網路傳播社會調查那這是1、1、2年有,1、1、3年也是延續辦理"},{"start":10394.117,"end":10411.469,"text":"社會調查主要就是以問卷委託民間來幫我們持續滾動式的了解社會關注的網際網路的議題是什麼希望政府解決以後大概都是這樣的預算結構嗎?你們業務結構都這樣嗎?那你這樣為什麼會需要40個人呢?你93派會有算傳播都委外你要40個人在這個網路辦公室幹嘛?你就變發包中心啊"},{"start":10423.995,"end":10445.232,"text":"總預算才3300欸你有3100委員欸那個更委員報告因為啊我們在召開這個中央利害關係人會議裡面其實還有一部分是屬於政府應該要去做的啦那個比如說我們對接受民眾的申訴處理民眾的申訴那除了政府之外啊那民間這塊是有一些是適合民間去做的那有一些是適合政府去做的所以啊那並不是全然啊都有委由民間來做"},{"start":10446.253,"end":10447.874,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":10472.901,"end":10477.602,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":10501.327,"end":10506.29,"text":"三十一到三十二重點來說明一下你們"},{"start":10509.281,"end":10511.062,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":10531.597,"end":10535.702,"text":"改為主決議不凍結了改為主決議好嗎好31至32就不凍結了改為主決議好不好好然後33到34呢"},{"start":10549.983,"end":10565.251,"text":"何俊仁委員本席提第33案請NCC說明一下因為那個假基地台的事情剛好跟我剛剛在提的一些釣魚的簡訊詐騙是有關係的可不可以說明一下你們現在有什麼因應積極的態度、做法"},{"start":10572.365,"end":10587.619,"text":"對跟委員報告一下就是說假基地台那一家案子就是他一個民眾他私自從中國大陸那邊進口一個基地台然後放到我們國內來來偽裝成合法的基地台那我們現在自己的錯我們是跟業者在說因為"},{"start":10589.16,"end":10616.688,"text":"這個基地台的戰術一共有10萬多件的戰術所以他要去查冊他必須要透過網管系統來所以我們會跟業者來透過網管系統的方式他們那邊會看出異常的基地台的狀況所以我們會配合這樣那我請教一下從上一次那件事這個從中國進口之後還有沒有其他沒有我們目前沒有在查所以那我們可不可以做源頭的管制有我們在源頭管制的部分我們會做測明器材的管理"},{"start":10617.188,"end":10635.826,"text":"所以我們那一塊我們社平器材一、去宣導二、我們要自己查冊所以我們過去在這個網際網路上面過去兩年統計下來將近4萬件的這種檢舉案我們已經下架3萬多件那我們也跟電商平台在溝通事實上請他們在做這個商品販賣的時候"},{"start":10636.907,"end":10657.668,"text":"要取得刑事認證的這些資格才讓他上去所以我們昨天前幾天我們也跟數位部這邊座談希望透過數位部那邊跟電商平台希望他們去做資訊的揭露做好以上報告什麼時候跟數位部合作那要求電商資訊揭露要做好已經開始了嗎即日開始要求他們資訊揭露一定要開始喔"},{"start":10660.851,"end":10689.043,"text":"我們之前已經先跟電商蝦皮平台那邊溝通請他們把這個管制設備器材的這個形式認證放到他們的自律規範裡面要求賣家要這個做所以現在如果說這個蝦皮那邊特定的這個特定的電商平台特定的電商平台那我們就會把這個訊息通知他們他們就把它下架OK好那我不堅持凍結啦我改組決議"},{"start":10692.506,"end":10707.365,"text":"好那這個不凍結了吧好不凍結並沒有決議案嗎好 這就不處理了好 第三十五到三十九案決議案三十五案有沒有意見"},{"start":10710.054,"end":10725.351,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":10728.434,"end":10749.739,"text":"那個改成書面報告改書面報告好39通過3939也是修正也是改成書面報告好改書面報告通過那沒有了嗎剛剛我那一案要改組決議喔你沒有宣告有啊有啊改組欸33、31、33、34改組決議好好好好"},{"start":10757.338,"end":10775.973,"text":"那113年...欸都沒有休息喔有沒有上洗手間的請便喔沒有我說你們自由進出啦齁沒關係齁可以放假五分鐘你們可以自由進出下面江華委員因為有事了應該要離開"},{"start":10778.251,"end":10791.615,"text":"審查113年度總預算案有限廣播電視事業發展基金有限基金附屬單位預算。好,趙委員你做先審查第8到第16案。"},{"start":10798.417,"end":10825.032,"text":"其中的交通委員13到14案,你們先發言吧。好,謝謝趙委。13案就是針對山地種家的問題,那也是希望能夠去裁罰,還有如果現在還沒裁罰提出理由法律依據,那同意的話就,不同意就保留了。那14案也是"},{"start":10827.533,"end":10846.259,"text":"針對今天事案也是三立宗家這個問題所以希望能夠提出專案報告可以同意嗎那同意就不保留對啊如果同意就不保留那不同意就保留"},{"start":10848.584,"end":10856.307,"text":"那同意嗎?13、第14那不凍結改為書面報告不凍結改書面報告好不好?我們文字修正文字修正就不用了我要凍結喔凍結的凍結30萬"},{"start":10870.455,"end":10882.666,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單五、繼續審查113年度"},{"start":10898.567,"end":10921.564,"text":"沒有,現在因為交通委員會有事嘛,我們通融他第8到16好,那本期提議第8案啦吼第8案基本上還是對有線電視現況調查及服務品質提升這筆錢吼,主要升級既有的系統還有定期更新維護有線廣播電視,也就是有線電視的營運管理啦吼"},{"start":10924.906,"end":10928.989,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算"},{"start":10948.171,"end":10951.292,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":10970.16,"end":10974.123,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11001.601,"end":11026.881,"text":"第八到第十二啦八到十二啦喔後面還有十五、十六喔軍警委員後面還有一個全數參檢的喔十六"},{"start":11028.829,"end":11044.586,"text":"十五、十六你沒看到嗎八到十六是八到十二還是八到十六啊沒有因為就是你們透過十三、十四嘛十三、十四處理了嘛八、九、十、十一、十二然後十五、十六"},{"start":11045.578,"end":11059.57,"text":"可以嗎?可以發言嗎?我們就提15、16案也是我們數位匯流轉型下的有限電視廣播系統營運收市趨勢產業發展和法治政策的研究這研究有158萬7千元"},{"start":11062.062,"end":11065.803,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11085.97,"end":11088.991,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11113.156,"end":11113.956,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督"},{"start":11136.986,"end":11140.407,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":11165.41,"end":11170.188,"text":"新宿民前面的跟委員報告一下齁這個有限電視的這個"},{"start":11172.142,"end":11175.383,"text":"通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11201.554,"end":11226.468,"text":"不過有限電視也不一定是西洋產業啦因為有限電視它也有它的寬頻的它現在發展它的寬頻所以它的收入變成進入加戶的第二條線所以它的這個產業反而是越來越重要它不一定是只有影音的內容但是因為我們有限電視法的這個收費的規定只是只有這個訂戶數的部分沒有寬頻所以這未來也是我們在未來再修改有限電視法裡面要考慮一些納入的這個問題"},{"start":11227.689,"end":11246.721,"text":"第二、有限電視法也規定有限基金有很多法定義務包括我們撥給地方政府的甚至撥給公司的這個部分都要去處理所以這個部分來講的話也請委員多多支持至於委員剛才在裡面所提到這個Hotkey的這個部分這個就跟區塊化是有關係的"},{"start":11249.443,"end":11251.884,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11266.713,"end":11267.834,"text":"通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11291.186,"end":11295.829,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":11319.704,"end":11322.567,"text":"三年改動節,病案嗎?"},{"start":11342.838,"end":11364.933,"text":"病案凍結多少?10分之1病案凍結10分之1然後解凍書面報告好我們再回來回到第一案第一案要3.1百萬就留到好委員體的你能夠說明一下嗎?"},{"start":11370.751,"end":11396.667,"text":"我們是同意刪減嗎?我們跟劉委員、那個劉長榮不要刪減喔?我們有跟他們辦公室溝通過不要講了,溝通過就好了你不要騙我喔,騙我就很嚴重了好不好,這個不處理了喔第二案,趙正宜委員溝通過沒有?有"},{"start":11399.545,"end":11403.337,"text":"第二案第三次期案第三"},{"start":11404.13,"end":11430.701,"text":"第三至七案第三林俊偉謝謝主席本集題第三案明年度的有線電視普遍偏鄉還有數位化就普及化有線電視的發展等等這個編入七千六百七十二萬這比預算我查一下過去三年資訊率都蠻高的也就錢幾乎都花光了"},{"start":11432.021,"end":11454.29,"text":"最近三的執行率都有85%但實際成交就像我們剛討論的照理講你要你這個目標有一個叫所謂的有線電視的普及化那你絕對不敢提提那個目標嘛照理講你既然這個以前是要推動普及化你的訂付數應該是逐年提升啊你應該告訴我明年你可以提升多少"},{"start":11455.53,"end":11462.718,"text":"實際上我也認為你做不到而且有間電視的訂付數就像我剛剛多次提的它是逐年遞減"},{"start":11464.512,"end":11471.438,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11493.282,"end":11521.981,"text":"請通常會提議那你如果改善既然你要補給的話那你提議如何改善有限電視訂屋數逐年減少提出對策狀況報告再動之謝謝好我們新年召回謝謝學生召回那我只是提第六案我是著動300萬出面報告就可以動之那我的理由第一個其實我剛才有提到有限電視現在收視越聽重視逐年在下降而且是大幅的下降"},{"start":11522.761,"end":11550.541,"text":"所以跟你這個計畫所謂的普及我覺得你們要重新去調整跟盤點因為我相信是未來的功能性是不一樣的功能性是不一樣的那在偏鄉裡面它的普及我相信有所謂的訊息的傳輸還有災難或者是救災救難型的這樣子的一個緊急性的功能這個我當然支持"},{"start":11551.081,"end":11579.813,"text":"只是說在這個功能裡面我們如何再去重新盤點調整你們這樣的一個預算科目的一個政策的執行這是第一個第二個災害的這個重建跟補助因為這個有關是偏鄉山區的那有線電視的一個這個線路的還有這個傳輸的這樣子的一個纜線的一個設計跟埋設的方式我也覺得要因地制宜"},{"start":11580.673,"end":11590.378,"text":"關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通"},{"start":11609.187,"end":11611.989,"text":"主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11637.446,"end":11659.725,"text":"好,謝謝我們何召瑋。數位委員,謝謝。好,謝謝主席。那本席提的是第七案,就是針對這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金在明年度有關這個有線電視偏鄉及數位畫譜及發展與災害復健補助計畫,有編列七千六百七十二萬七千元。"},{"start":11660.305,"end":11681.49,"text":"主要是用在促進有線廣播電視普及發展提供全體國民可以按照合理的價格公平享有一定品質的有線電視服務了那我們知道就是說現在其實有線電視的訂戶數也呃呈現這個衰退的一個趨勢然後也幾乎全面的數位化了所以在"},{"start":11682.57,"end":11693.12,"text":"一百一十一年度的時候有關本院在審查有關有限廣電基金的時候就已經有要求就是通傳會要針對基上河的相關收費標準要去研議可是根據我們了解目前好像還沒有訂出一個一個收費標準所以在這個部分本席是提凍結七百萬元的凍結案"},{"start":11706.593,"end":11713.457,"text":"建請通傳會對於數位基算和提出收費標準然後提出書面報告後時的動之。謝謝。"},{"start":11716.072,"end":11718.434,"text":"委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11741.613,"end":11744.475,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播委員會主管"},{"start":11770.833,"end":11771.794,"text":"主席我有提三件案,請主席採釋"},{"start":11785.089,"end":11807.314,"text":"我可以再發明一下嗎?謝謝委員的指教。我們剛剛委員有提到說我們這個計劃名稱可能以後要稍微調整一下,我就贊成。那因為其實坦白說,這個預算最主要是用在偏鄉的這個部分。尤其有一些是可能除了一些提供相關的服務以外,另外一個就是所謂災害的這個防救的這個部分。"},{"start":11807.814,"end":11808.815,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11822.688,"end":11823.168,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":11843.763,"end":11844.564,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":11865.788,"end":11880.658,"text":"對,就像這個南投、仁愛鄉這些相關的這些議題我知道啊,我知道啊我們計劃名稱,我們未來會把它制度的修正好,謝謝慰問的指教要與時俱進是,我們是不是建請這個,可以不用動是不是可以建請委員支持了"},{"start":11880.998,"end":11883.779,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會"},{"start":11904.867,"end":11906.308,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11933.542,"end":11944.498,"text":"是這個意思偏鄉不要啦改為離島只寫偏鄉我都還沒有抗議我們國會台還說不到"},{"start":11951.621,"end":11968.787,"text":"要處理預算嗎?這怎麼三?今天有沒有人表示意見?五百萬啊。三五百萬?五百萬。還重結五百萬?三五百萬。欸七千六百多萬欸。七千六百多萬喔。三五百萬不到10%欸。那個業務單位哪裡啊?三五百萬怎麼樣?"},{"start":11981.415,"end":11981.558,"text":"一半。"},{"start":11983.147,"end":12010.643,"text":"你可不可以解釋一下你歷年來編這些錢到底都用在哪裡啦解釋說明給林俊憲委員知道啦好跟委員會報告我們大概主要分兩塊一個就是數位化的普及另外一個就是災害的那個復健那災害復健就是如剛剛委員講是業者他遇到有天然災害的時候比如說土石流、地震、風災、水災這些的時候我們大概是編組一百萬 組長一百萬就一百萬了絕種幫助復健啦謝謝委員"},{"start":12016.332,"end":12022.446,"text":"對嘛,你要跟林燕蕙說明,她這個人很好講話,你跟她說明再講五分鐘可能一百萬都不用刪了"},{"start":12024.501,"end":12035.185,"text":"經紀委員去哪裡?他再講我們用100萬也不用算了好啦 算100萬了第三至第七案統算了就算100萬然後凍結十分之一好 書面報告書面報告解凍"},{"start":12051.201,"end":12076.869,"text":"下來17到22案17遵照辦理遵照辦理18案通過遵照辦理遵照辦理通過19案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過20遵照辦理20通過21那個修正文字修正什麼修正文字21第幾行倒數第三行跟第二行"},{"start":12081.531,"end":12090.688,"text":"基算和收費標準這個很重要啊這為什麼不要沒有我們修改文字就是說協商有關數位基算和收費"},{"start":12092.443,"end":12094.043,"text":"規範的訂定,然後再兩個月﹖規範的訂定,然後再兩個月﹖規範的訂定,然後再兩個月﹖規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規範規�"},{"start":12122.605,"end":12124.326,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12159.599,"end":12171.364,"text":"好,協商完畢。今日協商結論免以宣讀授權議事員整理作為決議委員發言中所提的問題請通訊團會尽數以書面答覆"},{"start":12176.465,"end":12194.583,"text":"針對本日會議做如下的決議一、本日預算審查結果照列或照協商結論通過。二、本日通過之決議文字授權主席及議事員調整。三、113年度國家通訊傳播委員會通訊傳播監督管理基金及有線廣播電視事業發展基金預算。"},{"start":12197.846,"end":12222.39,"text":"審查完畢。四、總會主審113年度中央政府總預算案關於公務預算部分均已審查完盡並決議如下。一、有關正式別稅數預算隨同以上機關別審查結果調整。二、拟據公務預算審查報告含附財政委員會提報願會討論。三、願會討論前"},{"start":12226.28,"end":12237.252,"text":"需交由黨團協商。議會討論時由本會陳召集委員學生及何召集委員心存出席說明。本次會議議程處理完畢。散會。"},{"start":12251.81,"end":12275.518,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12288.847,"end":12291.67,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"}]}},{"id":"15320","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15320","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d84d5437c18e80f077e60f8021a25648d46d53a332764a535e4174386ad9a66495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2023-11-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案。\n二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預算案。\n四、繼續審查113年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案。\n五、繼續審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家太空中心預算案。\n(11月29日及30日二天一次會)）","type":"Full","date":"2023-11-30","start_time":"2023-11-30T08:30:51+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2023-11-30T10:27:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":6969,"委員發言時間":"08:30:51 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GPT的過程當中你們的文本要多擴大跟跨部會的資料文本的串接那我諮詢中也提出了很多"},{"start":2774.304,"end":2781.254,"text":"那應當是有在建制啦好等一下主委再回應一下好以上三案謝謝好請主委回答"},{"start":2784.465,"end":2805.834,"text":"謝謝張亮委員的提議事實上教育班導體學院是大學去跟教育部來申請我想在國科這邊我會來跟教育部協調事實上中部也應該是蠻重要的一個班導體生產的重鎮"},{"start":2807.515,"end":2827.267,"text":"是由大學來主動跟這個教育部申請所以那個是教育部在核准那我會來協調看臺中那邊是不是有一些大學可以來做瞭解那第二個就是有關這個張啟祿委員這個專利是不是請那個王院長李院長"},{"start":2831.062,"end":2854.394,"text":"有關張委員的提案基本上來講我們有重新統計過其實到了112年的9月為止其實我們的專利的運用的比例已經到了4成也就是說到目前為止因為過去的確績效不是很好那目前為止我們"},{"start":2855.554,"end":2871.464,"text":"維護有466件,其實我們授權已經199次了,所以其實有大幅的提升。另一方面呢,我們的研發的服務,這裡面包含了很多專利的衍生技術,其實也逐年成長,去年年底有到7.6億,以上簡短報告,謝謝。好,謝謝。那個胡適雅委員這個有關這個淨零排碳,"},{"start":2879.673,"end":2907.531,"text":"跟經濟部這邊有沒有協調說明一下好那個跟委員報告齁那個PVO的資料我們都有提供給經濟部的他叫做地質調查及跨業管理中心齁那他有一個就是我們叫我們有提供他一個叫做地熱探勘資料平台那他其實他可以從那邊去選用那些資料對然後根據他的職權他可以做做他該該用的使用對是"},{"start":2908.954,"end":2916.485,"text":"那個金創這個就是說海外基地事實上教育部那邊事實上是扣在一起的金創這邊是我主導"},{"start":2921.454,"end":2949.44,"text":"那因為六個半導體學院跟這個半導體中心還有工研院的那個應該是整體在佈局所以我想這個應該是那我可以確認一下嗎就是整個教育部的這個海外的纜財流財這個計畫一直在升級那當中國科會做的是針對半導體晶片相關人才AI這塊拉出來其他這部分聽你的你在做其他交給他是這樣嗎因為我覺得就是"},{"start":2951.201,"end":2954.702,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":2981.304,"end":3006.34,"text":"主席,我們24案可以改成主決議,可是我們之前也有提醒,就是非常多國家經費跟資源都在做這個晶片的部分,那我們也跟你們討論過,你們有說你們其實跟各個部會之間,大家把相關的設備所需要資源,其實都有講清楚怎麼分工,那我們就是以持續監督的角色繼續跟國科會對話,那我們可以改成主決議,謝謝。好,謝謝。"},{"start":3009.042,"end":3019.031,"text":"好那我們現在處理齁那我們是不是這一幕凍結兩千萬跟加書面報告去年是凍結三千萬我沒看錯吧第四幕對"},{"start":3021.237,"end":3044.872,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3045.305,"end":3067.11,"text":"一千萬就好了啦我的建議請大家討論陳秀寶委員我這邊其實我提供的金額很低所以我聽到兩千萬委員嚇了一跳是可以不要動到那麼多因為我的部分其實你們有來解釋也有告訴有說就是關於租借辦法跟收費規定你們都會調整所以我這一案我也沒有堅持一定要動那就再打折一千萬一百萬一千萬"},{"start":3068.01,"end":3069.371,"text":"主決議是24案、26案、27案、29案、30案、31案、33案"},{"start":3097.519,"end":3110.006,"text":"有說這個沒有嗎?好33案接下來第5幕財團法人國家同步輻射研究中心發展計畫第36案到第39案的部分請張綺路委員"},{"start":3112.415,"end":3134.049,"text":"好 謝謝主席我這邊是第36案就這一案那這個地方主要是因為這個TLS是這個已經在我們是自行建造當時這個同步加速器的這個光源但是已經等於說運用30年老舊那現在我們是規劃在TPS光速線完工後將把這個舊的這個TLS這個用戶移轉到TPS"},{"start":3138.252,"end":3149.746,"text":"不過這個TPS這個光速線新建現在的這個進度是延宕的那移轉用戶當然就更不如預期了那所以這個現在這樣的問題是希望我們知道"},{"start":3151.499,"end":3175.879,"text":"要督促國家同步輻射研究中心檢討泰幻、TPS、宮崎岩蕩等問題是不是也可以告訴我們原因還有你們到時候怎麼樣補上岩蕩的進度那這個地方我們今天提一個凍結案以上 謝謝請主任稍微說明一下"},{"start":3177.961,"end":3180.302,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":3196.387,"end":3215.572,"text":"經濟的那個進展當中那像我們目前像現在有14座已經開放了那我們的三期結束的話經費結束在115年所以我們在積極的這個追趕進度當然不可以否認就是說過去這幾年因為疫情的關係供應鏈還有人力這些問題是我們有一些延遲"},{"start":3216.812,"end":3246.318,"text":"TLS的部分我們因為看到TPS已經有十幾條開放了所以我們最大的考量其實就是用戶不管是產業界學術界要有平順的延遲平順的遷移尤其重要是如果中間停很久的話事實上用戶是會流失的因為這些技術需要傳承的那我們現在TLS目前已經在今年啟動這個review所以我們從經濟面人力面還有科技以及產業的需求的已經做了整體的評估提出方案"},{"start":3246.698,"end":3276.698,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3276.978,"end":3304.639,"text":"那個基本上那個TPS那個是因為疫情有一些delay那目前進度已經在趕那十幾條線應該會在那個期間之內會把它趕完所以我想請這個張委員這邊看看是不是不要凍結這個他們的預算打個車好了我們少一點就是寫個報告告訴一下我們那個OK報告可以但是那個不要"},{"start":3305.959,"end":3332.095,"text":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案。厲,我們就凍結五百萬加書面報告。接下來是第六幕非營業特種基金第40案到第64案陳培宇委員然後接下來是黃國書委員再來是范雲委員再來是張亮萬堅委員再來是吳思堯委員然後再來是陳秀寶委員再來才是這個"},{"start":3333.596,"end":3334.096,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":3350.106,"end":3350.386,"text":"接下來請黃國樹委員"},{"start":3381.216,"end":3403.497,"text":"我們基金的預算430億當然要用在非常多的發展的面向上當然包括新的人才的培育然後還有一些新的科學技術發展的計畫的補助那我們先來看我的41案講到這個人才的培育特別是"},{"start":3404.238,"end":3415.735,"text":"跨世代的年輕學者的方案我們要補助新秀的學者、優秀年輕的學者以及國際年輕學者大概有這三類可是我們來檢討一下這個計畫是從110年開始辦理的這個叫2030年跨世代年輕學者方案"},{"start":3421.292,"end":3424.154,"text":"三、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":3441.983,"end":3470.076,"text":"要有更多人來申請來協助更多的年輕學者可是看起來這個數量在減少當中這個可能也要請我們國科會這邊來說明再來一些補助的計畫補助430億的計畫我們有5億是用在創新及應用科技然後這個要做什麼呢要來進行評審管考還有規劃推動等等"},{"start":3472.108,"end":3474.79,"text":"我們從107年到111年我們看起來辦理6項的中長程個案計劃借勤評估副評作業只有6項那112到118年度只有9項但是我們112年的科技計劃有394項我的意思是說我們每一年有那麼多的"},{"start":3496.338,"end":3517.197,"text":"推動的科技計畫的項目但是我們列入一些管考的像素明顯的偏低那這個部分我想了解一點點是不是有非常多不需要納入管考的還是都應該要還是什麼樣子的重大計畫才需要列入管考因為整個"},{"start":3518.939,"end":3539.536,"text":"國會在預算編列的時候是配合行政院所屬各機關中長程個案計畫編審要點的規定來進行這個作業的所以我覺得這個部分可能要請科技部來做一個說明那其他沒有列入中長期計畫管考的那我們用什麼樣子的方式去審核這些計畫執行的成效為何這是42案"},{"start":3544.093,"end":3558.323,"text":"再來43案我們辦理這個基礎科學研究我們要補助自然科學、工程科學、生命科學、人文科學但是我們從統計來看109到111年我們核定的金額大概107萬到108年都差不多"},{"start":3567.589,"end":3581.536,"text":"生命科學是連續兩年正成長自然科學是兩年是負成長那這個部分也請你們說明一下那再來就是我們計劃要審我們剛常用兩個方式來審一個叫做大批審那有一些是隨時你來審送審的我們就隨時審大概這兩個方式那這兩個方式來審會不會有一些造成一些問題我們看"},{"start":3597.15,"end":3618.142,"text":"如果從這個大批通過審查的比率大概56%大概各學門通過率是五成到六成之間這差異不大啦但是隨審通過審查的比率會超過一成比如說人文科學、生命科學通過率是71、74那工程科學、自然科學就88個跟88、兩個都88"},{"start":3622.825,"end":3642.12,"text":"那這個有沒有一些需要探討的空間說大批審跟誰誰審啊兩個對於各個類別的科技計畫會不會造成一些差異這個我也想要了解一下以上這個是43案以上"},{"start":3642.847,"end":3661.461,"text":"我們先請范雲委員然後呢范委員會之後您先回答然後在後面的委員先請范雲委員謝謝主席那我的案子是第一個是第44案那其實跟大家關心的深層式人工智慧非常的相關因為我們查到就是說其實就國外來講的話為了維持人機互動的"},{"start":3664.143,"end":3688.52,"text":"機器倫理技術研究非常重要國際上也不乏對人工倫理決策者的研究還有學者提出human in the loop or society in the loop回圈的過程中就應該有機器訓練這個過程中就要納入人跟社會的參與才能夠受到監督內涵也會有多元的價值"},{"start":3689.241,"end":3689.541,"text":"第14個案例"},{"start":3709.501,"end":3726.918,"text":"第二個是我的第45案就是其實這個我之前也都質詢過跟剛剛一樣就是我們2050的淨零碳排的目標的那其實有可能會造成社會衝擊跟深化不平等所以目前一個方向是如何落實公正轉型"},{"start":3727.719,"end":3744.287,"text":"例如日本就有相關的法規明定在綠能生產的過程中市丁村是再生能源協會的主體那確保當地的農林漁業經營者跟居民能夠在再生能源還有在地生活中間取得平衡"},{"start":3745.007,"end":3769.792,"text":"因果也會特別去關注產業鏈中的性別不平等研究近鄰轉型可能對女性帶來的衝擊跟協助方式因為我想經濟部那邊並不是主導研究可是我們國科會已經有相關的研究但是比較缺乏這個方面的就是不利處境然後如何以地方為轉型主體由下而上的實質的方式所以我是希望國科會"},{"start":3770.912,"end":3784.833,"text":"能夠在我們淨零碳排跟綠色轉型的過程中在公正轉型這個面向能夠增加相關的研究計畫研究先行未來也會對我們相關的法制決策有幫助這是我的第45案"},{"start":3786.032,"end":3786.473,"text":"第47案第47案"},{"start":3802.894,"end":3806.457,"text":"其實他們在申請出國開會的時候就會因為他有這個育兒的需要那其實事實上是沒有辦法出國不管是開去講學然後去國外演講或者參加研討會"},{"start":3829.034,"end":3850.747,"text":"國科會反映這與主計相關經費暴漲方式有關我希望你們可以去研議其他國家沒有相關的做法如果他要出國開會演講參加研討會這對科學家及社會科學學者都很重要有沒有什麼協助的方式這是第四期"},{"start":3852.187,"end":3869.095,"text":"第48案,也是之前我有質詢過的加拿大的研究就跟我們的國科會一樣他們已經把促進平等、促進多元、促進包容納入他整個研究的過程中,申請者要自我檢核"},{"start":3870.656,"end":3898.051,"text":"甚至申請者必須要說明學術團隊的組成、訓練有沒有吶喊促進、平等、多元、包容我之前質詢的時候主委也承諾會來研議這個方向所以我這邊本來是要凍結但你們溝通之後我是發現你們的確是有在做所以在做相關的一個鼓勵我這個改成主決議這一案就可以先改成主決議以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":3899.512,"end":3912.101,"text":"請主委好謝謝那個有關陳佩瑜委員的這個科普這個齁當然是會這個不忘初衷啦我們那個彩繪列車的那個彩繪其實應該是陳委員沒地了"},{"start":3916.605,"end":3927.013,"text":"就是說那個那個彩繪其實整個台灣在繞的時候它的效果應該是非常好那那個只是其中一部分但其他的我想我們會來這個加強好謝謝"},{"start":3930.183,"end":3935.766,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關黃國書委員會及事務委員會及事務委員會及事務委員會及事務委員"},{"start":3956.235,"end":3982.503,"text":"那其他的那個第43案是不是請我們中規處那個處長稍微說明一下對是是來請好跟委員報告就是我們的各個學門他們都有自己的審查標準那基本上我們大批跟水省最大的不同是在於我們水省大部分都是新進人員"},{"start":3983.143,"end":3996.979,"text":"委員會申請的那我們也為了鼓勵新進人員可以盡量多做研究計劃所以隨時能通過率會比大批的通過率平均要來的高那四個不同的學門也會因為他們的新進人員進來的PI的人數的比例會有一些"},{"start":3998.16,"end":3999.782,"text":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":4023.042,"end":4038.434,"text":"可能我的問題是這個樣子啊就是說大批審各個學門類別的審查都差不多啦五六成嘛但是你隨時審我的意思是說隨時審的時候人文科學跟生命科學的通過率大概只有七成"},{"start":4039.395,"end":4056.603,"text":"但是工程科學跟自然科學是將近九成我的意思是這樣所以你要解釋說那隨時審的時候為什麼人文科學生命科學會比工程科學跟自然科學還低將近兩成我的意思是這個問題"},{"start":4057.763,"end":4084.815,"text":"那個那個我們我們回去請那個中規處再把那個跟這個委員再說明一下應該是有原因我們不會隨時的話主要主要是人數的問題對PI人數問題因為因為有時候會看到這些差別是比方說人文跟生科他的人數比較多但你通過的案件會有限所以他通過率會有一點點變化這每年會有一些變化"},{"start":4086.374,"end":4097.941,"text":"對,會有一點冰涼,但是平均都會比大批來得高,明顯的高,因為要讓新的人能夠進來做研究。來,請站,那個處長"},{"start":4108.912,"end":4137.386,"text":"跟委員報告中長城計劃主要是部會要自行來提所以它就會才形成中長城計劃一、兩年那現在來講的話我們有一個改相關的機制就是說五億它的長城整個7成20億以上就要包中長城就是這樣規定它如果沒有這一個的話它就是一般的計劃就可以了但是跟委員報告不管是中長城還是一般的計劃所有科專計劃都有三級三省所有要經過管考"},{"start":4138.626,"end":4159.215,"text":"對,所有都經過管考那任何計畫都要經過這過程那我了解就是說我們列入中場的計畫其實是用那個計畫的預算的經費預算的高低來看如果低的就一般性計畫嗎?對對對要高的那大概要多高才會列入中場的計畫?一年是5億然後總成是21OK,總成是21對對,總成是21所以這樣子的"},{"start":4165.177,"end":4173.37,"text":"的數量是正常的嗎?是不是?數量一定會比較少,因為他要互惠自己來提,不然的話就是一般計畫。OK,好,那我了解。"},{"start":4175.925,"end":4201.792,"text":"那個范委員的我還沒有那個范委員有關這個人工智慧跟這個倫理法治這邊的確是非常重要因為這個AI它是good and bad有這個危害未來社會的一些方向我們是非常注意那事實上包括歐盟我前幾天在那邊他們也非常注意AI的另外一面但是我也跟他們講"},{"start":4202.532,"end":4225.67,"text":"AI的產業面也不要因為這個法制把它弄得太緊尤其在近期這個我們有在這個努力當中那有關這個近年這邊社會的公正轉型的確是當然是我們在研究這邊會盡量鼓勵多一點我們在近年這邊事實上我們已經國科會已經踏出一步了"},{"start":4226.07,"end":4236.692,"text":"就研究以外你要一些事情那有一次計畫已經在跟外面的這個NGO在接觸讓他們有一些實驗型的這個這個我們會來努力再加強"},{"start":4238.789,"end":4259.966,"text":"那這個育兒這個當然跟主計有關係那這個我也非常重視那如果主計我們回去想想看我可以跟主計這邊溝通的確這個是一個蠻大的問題EDI這個我也在努力當中好謝謝那我們接下來請陳秀寶委員發言"},{"start":4264.332,"end":4278.704,"text":"在這一幕裡面本席的案是第49案。那這個剛才我們國書委員講的時候其實我們主委這邊已經有解釋過了就是說這個培育優秀學者計畫因為你們是用多年期的這個方式所以說現在"},{"start":4282.528,"end":4295.199,"text":"議員會有一個減少的這個看起來是減少那既然已經這樣子說明了這個我可以接受是這一案文改圖決議但是我要講一下齁剛才培育委員第51案啊其實我們care的重點是說你編列了4400萬的預算可是你有1000萬是拿來做彩繪"},{"start":4301.264,"end":4305.988,"text":"我們中南部要爭取多一點的站點多一點的人數的參與都要還要跟你們討論跟你們爭取可是這個科普這個彩繪列這個彩繪領就花了一千萬在那邊是不是能夠說這樣子一個花在上面的效益跟實際上我們是不是能夠增加我們的學生的這個參與的人數站點這我們我們在意的是這一點所以培運委員覺得他這一案他是堅持一定要懂他可以跟其他委員並懂那因為我有跟他連署我對這個案子我也很在意你因為"},{"start":4328.644,"end":4354.722,"text":"主委應該很有印象我一直一直每一次反正執行的時候我一定會提到這個部分所以我們很在意說為什麼你把一千萬就拿來做彩繪四千四百萬裡面有一千萬是做彩繪所以說相對這個這個費用的比例我們會覺得有點覺得說是不是有你們要檢討要改就是去去檢討說這樣子做的效益是在哪裡那另外我幫那個議員講一下他等一下才會比較晚進來所以他一到四目他的案子全部改組決議以上"},{"start":4358.239,"end":4383.789,"text":"五十二案我改組決議我接受你們的說明重點就是盡量多鼓勵多年期研究計劃的部分改組決議五十三案呢要特別再跟主委叮嚀一下也希望等一下得到您的say yes"},{"start":4384.549,"end":4397.611,"text":"就是我們人文處裡面的藝術學門其實領域越來越廣了我也看到在各類的補助上都盡量幫忙但是呢我調出總體的補助專體研究計畫發現呢還是比起其他學門是非常低的啦補助金額109到111年只有2.6億佔你們全部專體研究計畫的3.6"},{"start":4412.054,"end":4433.944,"text":"那我想藝術我前陣子臺北藝術大學那一棟臺灣第一棟的這個科學藝術館落成我很開心看到我們國課會有同仁有趣我們還看了最新的沉浸式的科技藝術的展演我相信大家都會看到那是臺灣未來非常有潛力的藝術領域結合臺灣的科技所以這一案是不是能夠請主委再承諾未來在藝術方面的專題研究"},{"start":4441.368,"end":4465.07,"text":"能夠再給更多這是53那54案呢我同意改組決議我接受了你們的說明那55案呢這個再提示一下科技顧問制度的成員諸位有在質詢的時候promise目前的領域雖然只有8位然後比較narrow一點您有承諾未來會擴大"},{"start":4467.573,"end":4476.313,"text":"我希望這個擴大就是即刻來進行那我提示的人設領域的再勞煩一下好嗎"},{"start":4479.775,"end":4505.15,"text":"56案我可以改組決議就是臺灣是不是要研議自己的AI發展的基本法那我同意我們現在並不需要現在處理但是相關的研究跟準備學習國際的經驗我覺得我們不要放棄56案改組決議OK那57案要特別唠叨一下下就是國科會這幾年非常投入的精準運動科學研究的專題計畫已經進入二期了嘛"},{"start":4508.012,"end":4508.412,"text":"議事委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":4538.652,"end":4540.492,"text":"行政院主管行政院主管行政院主管行政院主管"},{"start":4567.957,"end":4593.944,"text":"這些都是未來的奧運發展的指定項目都是年輕化的運動項目所以對於年輕化的運動項目的科研要做第三大塊就是女性科研女性運動像我非常羨慕日本他們是花一個非常多年期的對於女性投入運動的各項研究譬如說女性如何避免她在生理期影響她的運動專業的表現"},{"start":4596.397,"end":4610.515,"text":"有各種的科學方法可以減輕它去去去妨礙它的表現這樣所以女性年輕化的新興項目以及全民運動的研究這個我花一點時間來報告希望可以納入我們"},{"start":4611.716,"end":4612.838,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":4632.062,"end":4632.462,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":4649.332,"end":4674.339,"text":"的基地在哪裡?那我之前也包括中全副主委我們跟你們的處裡頭包括跟這個那個經濟部都討論過了確實在台北市的市北科讓TTA成為一個新創基地進駐在那裡是需要的是可行的所以到底是租地自建或者是跟台北市政府合建"},{"start":4675.339,"end":4691.522,"text":"或者是進駐於臺北市政府未來自己有的建築裡面幾種方式我覺得我們都要努力來推進否則永遠新創基地對臺灣的科研這麼重要一直尾聲於小巨蛋"},{"start":4692.5,"end":4722.5,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4723,"end":4729.383,"text":"教育及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案。adequate to all the committee members to participate."},{"start":4729.383,"end":4730.063,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":4730.063,"end":4749.17,"text":"接下來請張祺祿委員。我這邊是40案。當然這一案已經跟41案跟黃國書委員的幾乎很接近了。 主委剛剛也有回答了。我只是希望說,這邊一定會寫一個類似檢討報告。 我希望比較知道,在這個報告裡面我是建議把我們不同的學門"},{"start":4750.911,"end":4754.434,"text":"第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":4769.445,"end":4783.319,"text":"議員會議員議員會議員會議"},{"start":4784.158,"end":4785.338,"text":"事務委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科"},{"start":4814.298,"end":4830.946,"text":"那個剛好就是最後一個這個張綺路張委員這邊事實上我們會來檢討一下那一些資料我想再給這個相關槌尋的這個委員這個我想先簡短那剛剛就是我們這個"},{"start":4836.325,"end":4838.586,"text":"陳秀寶委員改組決議有關吳斯耀委員改組決議有關第53案有關第53案"},{"start":4857.213,"end":4858.294,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":4879.349,"end":4883.331,"text":"第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":4899.292,"end":4904.374,"text":"第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學技術"},{"start":4917.474,"end":4938.28,"text":"謝謝我們幫忙去跟小巨蛋那邊去讓價錢低一點那未來我想新的這個TTA在台北市這邊的一些基地我想這個四北科我們這個是12月11號我們來跟大家去那邊看一下"},{"start":4939.06,"end":4949.524,"text":"我們也希望說可以因為事實上那個那邊的地也蠻貴的所以如果可以合建合作那個是最好的一個選擇好謝謝好那我們現在這一幕來處理那我們這樣總共凍結多少7000那我們打個折吧主委你們可以接受凍結多少"},{"start":4966.485,"end":4968.508,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":4984.028,"end":4996.316,"text":"對對對對改組決議的改組決議其他的都是並動那我們這一幕就是凍結2000萬家書面報告那麼組決議的部分48案、49案、50案、52案、54案、56案、58案、61案、62案還有林益錦委員的2案、14案、17案、19案、20案、25案、34案、35案也是改組決議"},{"start":5012.032,"end":5023.162,"text":"主決議部分65案、66案、67案遵照辦理68案文字修正69案遵照辦理70案透過文字修正71、72、73、74、75、76、77、78遵照辦理79案文字修正80、81、82、83"},{"start":5032.931,"end":5036.295,"text":"總預算案有關國家科總預算案有關國家科總預算案有關國家科總預算案有關國家科總預算案有關"},{"start":5048.268,"end":5070.813,"text":"第一案、一案、三、四、六、八、九、十、十二、十五、十六、二十四、二十六、二十七、二十九、三十、三十一、三十三、三十七、三十八、三十九等案。好,請問各位委員還有沒有意見?好,沒有的話我們就照案通過。接下來"},{"start":5074.721,"end":5103.413,"text":"我們進行新竹科學園區管理局還有中部科學園區管理局第94案是張亮萬間的部分那我們這個部分就不處理就照列了照列接下來是新竹科學園區管理局的第一幕95案96案兩案有沒有改組決議改組決議接下來第4幕照列第一幕"},{"start":5104.882,"end":5110.204,"text":"預算照列然後95案96案是改組決議接下來是第4幕第4幕是園區業務的推展好等一下喔第97案到第103案我們請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":5122.711,"end":5141.967,"text":"在這一幕的部分我的案子是102案主要是針對說我們園區的這個廢棄物再利用率蠻低的分別是在竹科的部分在電腦周邊以及機密機械的部分分別是49.93%還有55.26%就是低於6成那這個部分呢"},{"start":5149.198,"end":5176.655,"text":"雖然你們有來說明啦就是說竹科就是說這邊整體的在利用率已經有接近九成那而且有一些是因為產業特性還有說是包材的影響那我想說提這個案子一次希望說因為竹科是身為我們國科學園區之首其實大家很多的做法跟那個都會向竹科看齊向竹科來學習所以這個部分希望可以規劃再更努力那這個部分我可以"},{"start":5177.575,"end":5179.396,"text":"主管行政院主管行政院主管行政院主管"},{"start":5205.503,"end":5228.233,"text":"我是97案那後續在中科南科都是一樣的我就一起講就是針對我們的幾大園區的再生能源發電的設置我當然理解新竹竹科是開發的比較早那現在有一些建築都是既定的比較難突破但是我認為這也不是唯一的理由"},{"start":5229.286,"end":5253.371,"text":"如果說台灣的對於再生能源的科研還是沒有辦法經濟受限於已經做好的建物就不能做那我覺得我們的科技就打屁股了嘛所以說以建的當然想辦法還是來增加再生能源的發電比例因為我們就是善用我們的科技那第二個我也不認為我們消極的叫大家去買那個買綠電就好我覺得這樣實在是"},{"start":5259.731,"end":5261.133,"text":"總預算案有關國家科總預算案"},{"start":5281.597,"end":5307.62,"text":"請主委回答好 那個有關程序保護人這個改主席那個謝謝這個我想我們會來督促主科尤其是一些比較舊的來既然大家要盡量往這個零廢棄這邊來走啦這個我想局長應該也蠻這個用心在做這個那有關這個吳思瑤委員這邊我當然也有同感"},{"start":5308.598,"end":5325.886,"text":"因為很多比如說台積電他上面其實我有要求他們去那事實上他因為他機密度蠻大但是我想我們未來還是要既然他們有這麼大的綠電需求應該也要自己也可以來努力一下來 葛中跟你講"},{"start":5326.366,"end":5345.779,"text":"我跟委員報告,即使我們有找專家去看每一個舊廠可不可以來增加太陽能光電,並不是消極不作為。目前可用新建案,有些有改善,就是增加。所以你剛提到是0.39%,現在已經0.45%了。"},{"start":5350.441,"end":5352.742,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":5367.768,"end":5369.529,"text":"主管行政委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5381.559,"end":5401.977,"text":"那個我們持續來加油的確未來這個再生能源的需求跟重要性越來越大那這個我本身也蠻這個第一個我原來也覺得說奇怪他怎麼那麼少那我後來有了解有一些目前的困難但是那些困難我想我們再來找一些新的辦法來解決"},{"start":5404.413,"end":5418.891,"text":"謝謝我當然知道說你們有努力想做啦但我覺得這整件事情都是非不能也不為也而已啦所以在態度上要更積極然後要想方法如果說現在廠商他就有抗拒"},{"start":5419.872,"end":5435.06,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5435.3,"end":5435.94,"text":"請林一錦委員補充發言。"},{"start":5461.521,"end":5485.502,"text":"謝謝主席喔不好意思喔因為慢了半個天不曉得大家進度很快不錯不錯不過不好意思喔因為前面都已經討論過那我想補充的是在我的主決議81案主決議我是有一些特別的想法就是這個因應我們文化部有一個文化"},{"start":5487.223,"end":5489.164,"text":"發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5512.193,"end":5513.774,"text":"事務委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":5543.733,"end":5544.874,"text":"主委請回答"},{"start":5560.046,"end":5564.529,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5581.64,"end":5585.581,"text":"五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科五、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5610.834,"end":5614.597,"text":"一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科一、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5634.121,"end":5653.763,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5653.823,"end":5655.164,"text":"第102案改組決議104、105遵照辦理106案文字修正中科"},{"start":5668.215,"end":5680.185,"text":"科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案。第一幕107案108案改組決議所以我們就是照列第四幕園區業務推展的部分第109案到115案請委員發言請吳思耀委員"},{"start":5685.709,"end":5685.909,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":5714.055,"end":5731.587,"text":"這一幕裡面我的案子是115案其實是跟剛剛那個主科的問題是一樣的是希望說這個廢棄物在利用的比例但因為這個在中科的這個部分關於生物科技之111年這個廢棄物在利用率只有21.35%"},{"start":5733.968,"end":5734.549,"text":"事務委員會及所屬單位預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5758.63,"end":5760.992,"text":"基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科基金附屬單位預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5785.458,"end":5808.54,"text":"您要回答嗎?我的部分謝謝委員的一個關心就是我們這個太陽能發電我們有新區還有擴建的這個部分我們會有它那個半導體新的產業的20%還有5.5%新的我們一定會強力來要求它我有提供的數字給主委參考剛剛竹科說努力到0.45%的再生能源發電量"},{"start":5810.56,"end":5838.103,"text":"中科是這樣這幾年來這三年來的用電量提升百分之八但是台電給我的資料就是去年的中科太陽能設備的發電量只佔中科總園區用電量的百分之零點五六所以中科是新區也只有零點五六所以主委這個沒有動二十萬也說不過去講就是說這是我就覺得沒有辦法接受啦"},{"start":5839.434,"end":5840.996,"text":"二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科"},{"start":5852.859,"end":5853.859,"text":"第111案、113案、114案、115案改組決議。"},{"start":5874.332,"end":5888.006,"text":"好接下來主決議的部分第116案照案通過再來是南科南部科學園區管理局的這個預算第一幕117來來117案118案改組決議所以我們就照列第4幕園區業務推展119案到126案有沒有發言請吳世耀委員"},{"start":5899.406,"end":5927.089,"text":"所以南科我也提醒一下我這裡的資料南科近三年來的用電量增加了11%但是台電給的資料111年度南科太陽能的發電量只佔園區的0.50.5沒有還是我數字有錯台電給我的請回答等一下等一下對不起請陳秀寶委員發言"},{"start":5930.078,"end":5953.514,"text":"謝謝主席。在這一幕裡面呢我當然只是一二四案齁這個就針對我們藍科齁就是租金收租金的這個部分其實幾乎每一次齁審預算的時候都會被拿出來討論在檢討當然我也知道你們有想辦法有很多的就是不管是你們記這個吹討的信函那種種的你們也在努力啦但是"},{"start":5954.495,"end":5977.789,"text":"未來是不是也是要去規劃說像這樣有基金風險的廠商我們有這樣的經驗了我們是不是有一些相對應的機制那這個是這個案子我沒有堅持一定要凍結我可以幹組決議但是因為每年你們都會被檢討每年每一次所以這個部分你們自己本身還是要想一個對策來解決你們這樣子業務上的一個困境看怎麼去突破以上請回答"},{"start":5981.384,"end":5995.573,"text":"主席還有各位委員謝謝委員關心太陽能發電我們太陽能發電其實佔到2.89目前已經有將近60幾MW的在南科裡面等一下喔是總再生能源發電量2.89是是是是太陽光電發電量的佔比佔總發電量的2.89我們目前的數據目前是這樣但是將來還會再提升也就是說我們66MW的太陽能光電將來會成長到將近85這個我們持續在努力啦這個謝謝委員關心繼續加油"},{"start":6011.202,"end":6029.7,"text":"租金的部分確實我們從源頭管理就是入區廠商的篩選讓他進駐的時候就管理那他的經營過程我們也有預警的機制那吹收如果我們有SOP我們會努力來吹收回來我們過去已經收了3000多萬那我們會持續追謝謝委員的關心好那你們南科要怎麼處理有要凍結嗎請問委員20萬"},{"start":6032.315,"end":6039.601,"text":"好,那我們這個南科這一部分就是凍結20萬家書面報告好,然後這個121案、124案、125、126案改組決議好,接下來組決議127案、128案照案通過好再來是基金的部分好"},{"start":6060.464,"end":6066.09,"text":"行政院國家科學技術發展基金第一案陳秀寶委員"},{"start":6077.293,"end":6095.524,"text":"這個案子其實我提這個增列的部分是希望說能夠更積極的來推廣我們研發的成果那前年的前年度的權利金收入相較於決算數其實是增加了決算數相較於預算數是增加了"},{"start":6100.426,"end":6124.09,"text":"決算比預算多了2000多萬所以我覺得應該是可以積極的來規劃這個但是你們有來說明就是說這個部分我沒有堅持但是我覺得不知道其他委員有沒有什麼意見那謝謝那我們這一案就照列然後接下來是基金來源的部分第一案照列那麼接下來是基金用途推動整體科技發展計畫的部分那麼張起你說策案是哪一個"},{"start":6131.391,"end":6136.396,"text":"第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案第二、繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":6158.083,"end":6160.044,"text":"政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":6186.563,"end":6188.854,"text":"我是9號成立所以如果下禮拜五"},{"start":6191.054,"end":6220.183,"text":"這個部分呢我本來提的凍結金額是100萬但是你們有來說明了啦其實我沒有其實我們提凍金額其實也是希望你們在你們的業務上可以更精進那你們有來說明的話這個部分我沒有堅持要動我可以再改組決議好改組決議那我們就是照列那接下來是國家科學技術委員會監督國家太空中心總支出的預算有兩案"},{"start":6221.744,"end":6243.826,"text":"那陳秀寶委員有要發言嗎?不用。那我們這就是照列囉。好。那麼就照列。主決議第三案就照案通過。好。還有嗎?好。那接下來呢?好。我們先休息五分鐘。"},{"start":6247.92,"end":6248.602,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算案。"},{"start":6256.995,"end":6257.796,"text":"我每天在拚選舉"},{"start":6836.34,"end":6857.807,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6857.907,"end":6880.549,"text":"一百、一百零二、一百零七、一百零八、一百一十一、一百一十三、一百一十四、一百一十五、一百一十七、一百一十八、一百二十一、一百二十四、一百二十五、一百二十六另外發展基金的部分第四案災防科技中心的部分第一案以上請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有意見我們就通通照案通過"},{"start":6882.259,"end":6907.535,"text":"好,今天的審查結果免予重複宣讀在不影響文藝前提下授權議事人員一、113年度中央政府總預算案審查報告與黨團協商之範例整理列入記錄一、113年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案一、112年度及113年度行政法人國家太空中心預算案均已審查完略"},{"start":6910.897,"end":6926.244,"text":"科學及技術發展基金附屬單位預算案。adequately 113年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位預算案。"},{"start":6932.146,"end":6958.426,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預算案全部審查完均113年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案112年度及113年度行政法人國家太空中心預算案均審查完均拟據審查報告提報院會不須交由黨團協商"},{"start":6961.672,"end":6978.872,"text":"議會討論時由正召集委員立文補充說明對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關請速以書面答覆。報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}