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謝謝我們各位的黨團謝謝部長跟署長我們大家來協商所得稅法第17條的條文今天是針對關於幼兒學權特別扣除的事情我把所有的版本都把它整理了一下主要是針對有三項"},{"start":2150.37,"end":2159.678,"text":"第一項就是從5歲到6歲大家都同意包括財政部、包括各個黨團我看都沒有意見"},{"start":2163.445,"end":2187.022,"text":"針對生第一胎的特別扣除額是12萬這個金額有很多十個版本分別從12萬最高分別到20萬我自己的版本裡面是沒有但是我不尋思當然大家要confirm一下"},{"start":2192.548,"end":2203.623,"text":"第三個我們要鼓勵生育 生育太低了針對第二胎 含第二胎以上 我們就把它調整"},{"start":2205.029,"end":2230.52,"text":"百分之五十那當然這百分之五十到底是多少還是回到剛才講的第二個到底是以維持現在的12萬呢還是到20萬這中間有院局這總共有這三項第一項跟第三項大家都沒有爭議 對不對那我們就針對金額好不好金額就是特別扣除的金額到底是多少請大家表達意見 來"},{"start":2232.588,"end":2249.898,"text":"好 謝謝召委還有各位黨團代表以及我們財政部那我想少子女化是目前的國安危機那如何讓年輕人怨婚、感生、樂養其實是重點那我們認為其實在這次的所得稅法第17條的條例的修法上"},{"start":2250.658,"end":2271.654,"text":"在針對學前幼童特別扣除或放寬到60的部分感謝財政部同意但是今天沒有共識的部分還是剛剛趙薇講的協商提高免稅稅額的部分那台灣民眾黨主張要直接提高到20萬讓撫養兩個小孩的家庭可以直接想到政府有感的免稅額減輕負稅的一個負擔"},{"start":2274.316,"end":2302.129,"text":"尤其是為了配合零到六歲國家養的政策打造青年怨婚感生樂養的環境我們也會積極推動少子女化對策相關的一個修法除了提出少子女化社會對策基本法的草案包含勞工保險法、公教人員保險法跟農民健康保險法的條例修法提高生育給付三個月其實我覺得應該要完整性當然這個是後續我們還要繼續努力的"},{"start":2302.409,"end":2324.435,"text":"但是這次的所得稅法第17條的修法那本黨團的版本就是針對這個第二款第三目之六學前幼童特別扣除而年齡上限修正為六歲以下的子女這個是有共識的那每人每年的免稅額度從現行的12萬我再強調一次就提高到20萬我們也不要有急劇了就是"},{"start":2324.895,"end":2347,"text":"基本上就是大力的來去支持這樣的一個政策那也對於現在年輕的政府年輕的這個父母在養兒育女的稅務負擔可以有感的去減緩那使年輕的家庭能夠讓感覺到政府是他們的神隊員而不是豬隊員我覺得這個是非常重要的這個基本的態度因為我們現在的"},{"start":2348.18,"end":2364.542,"text":"出生人口已經跌破13萬了其實這個基本上人口的預期出生指標基本上應該都可以預估的出來所以在有限的資源裡面我們應該做大力的一個支持那讓現在的年輕人能夠有感政府對他們的幫助以上"},{"start":2365.262,"end":2365.622,"text":"法務部的林參事"},{"start":2395.525,"end":2416.874,"text":"衛福部的林組長衛福部的王專門委員衛福部的國建署的歐科長教育部國民及學權教育署的王組長"},{"start":2421.653,"end":2442.106,"text":"好 來 再來 再來不好意思 剛剛我們表達我們主張之後但有一條我們希望可以保留是針對排富的部分我們希望這個部分可以再進行討論那我們希望還是要把納稅人的錢留在刀口上你就直接講出你們的版本好了我們不要再寫上了好 來 蘇英"},{"start":2443.788,"end":2460.276,"text":"好 謝謝昭緯我們這麼快速的其實在委員會出來之後馬上來進行協商就是因為我們也都在立場上都是非常同意就是在這個有關於幫民眾減稅減輕負擔這個部分那麼有關於這個幼兒學錢特別扣除額的部分我必須要講就是在民進黨內我們大概有包括黃國書委員賴瑞隆委員然後還有郭國文委員"},{"start":2472.122,"end":2490.848,"text":"那麼在這個扣除額的金額的部分有12到20萬不等那麼因為在我們內部這裡大家都是一致同意就是要提高扣除額的部分但是在這個金額的部分目前我們其實沒有一個同意的版本那麼但是我們其實都是認為就是必須在這個會期結束之前應該要把它修法完成那所以在這裡的話我是希望針對"},{"start":2499.031,"end":2513.852,"text":"剋除額的金額的部分給我們再一點時間那是不是交由這個院長再做一次協商然後請召委再來安排我們務必在這個院會結束之前本會期結束之前讓他能夠修正通過但是因為我們"},{"start":2515.053,"end":2534.772,"text":"民眾黨內的版本目前是12到20都有但是我相信在這裡應該是要抓一個中間值那包括像現在民眾黨團也希望是20嘛那在這個部分的話我希望是不是再給我們一點時間來做這個金流的部分好 謝謝楚瑩你看我們有列出來總共有12個版本民眾黨是20萬"},{"start":2538.615,"end":2549.88,"text":"廖婉汝委員是20萬 都是到6歲以下楊瓊瓔委員18萬 郭國文委員第一名12萬 第二名15萬 第三名18萬賴瑞隆委員是20萬"},{"start":2557.025,"end":2565.491,"text":"本院提的是第一名12萬其第二名是增加50%翁鴻鈞委員是20萬萬美玲委員24萬馬文君委員20萬楊耀委員維持12萬但是延長放寬至6歲莊競程委員是放寬至6歲以下並刪除牌付條款"},{"start":2583.021,"end":2587.184,"text":"第12位是黃國書委員6歲維持12萬現在請我們財政部是莊部長還是宋署長來回應一下"},{"start":2599.134,"end":2613.353,"text":"趙薇及委員大家好我想這個案子大家應該都希望能夠盡快的能夠通過因為現在少子女化確實是一個國安的問題那在我們上一次討論大概有如同剛剛趙薇所說的第一個從5歲"},{"start":2614.714,"end":2642.243,"text":"調整到6歲這個基本都有共識第二個就是排富的部分大概上次討論也都有共識那現在就是金額的部分除了金額之外還有一個是不是叫階梯式的一個調整也就是說第一胎12萬要不要做調整以及第二胎第三胎要不要做階梯式的調整這個部分也都有不同的版本那我們希望基本上大家的方向都希望這個會期能過那我們財政部也樂見這樣的一個完成那是不是在金額的部分恐怕"},{"start":2642.623,"end":2658.649,"text":"是不是有委員們再來做一個討論然後再來做一個因為各版本不同嘛經過一段不同是不是再來看委員們能不能取得一個公式然後我們也能夠在稅損可控的情況下來做一個後面的作業這個我之前付稅所幫我精算過你們拿前年的資料去套進去就是我們把"},{"start":2671.843,"end":2693.848,"text":"金額從12萬到15萬然後第二名小孩以後就是累計增加50%沒有排富的問題因為平常講我是覺得這是人民的權益加上排富我們鼓勵不管什麼人你只要生小孩就好"},{"start":2696.518,"end":2721.154,"text":"多聲而且這個我也問過了一下現在在50歲以下的年輕朋友我們光立法院我問一下好像有兩名小孩的好像很少只有一兩位你有是吧我是對抗少子女化的兼兵我是三個小孩子的父親這個應該要給獎勵而且我是45歲以下"},{"start":2727.219,"end":2750.76,"text":"你不是天主教徒吧這個天主教徒這個是不能墮胎的這樣子所以說我們這個牌付條款基本上我想我們就不要談了好不好因為我們不管什麼人願意生小孩就是給你獎勵好不好"},{"start":2752.591,"end":2762.088,"text":"那這樣子剛才那個主委委員給我講因為民黨內還沒有整合好所以我們今天就做如下的決議"},{"start":2763.973,"end":2788.403,"text":"我們擇期請游業長再來召開朝野協商好不好我會盡快跟麻煩你們也跟那個游業長辦公室但排富的部分我也非常認同就是說不要有排富的這個部分應該是願意要生的、生養的我覺得我們就應該要鼓勵你說年收入200萬的人如果把它排除"},{"start":2791.679,"end":2813.525,"text":"兩百萬在台北是養個小孩很貴的啦好不好 排富的部分我們就不談你們當初有算排富嗎因為排富的門檻是什麼就是28歲以上的"},{"start":2819.996,"end":2840.933,"text":"是不是建議可以再重新估算一下,我們再討論盡快的反正我們本來就要再召開一次會議我們具體建議,謝謝昭偉就是說昭偉今天會做決議如果要進行到院長協商的部分你們那個精算的部分就是如果沒有牌覆的要把它算出來"},{"start":2841.813,"end":2861.455,"text":"然後稅損是多少?到底要花多少錢?那我們黨團的主張當然是希望就像昭薇講的啦其實從寬從速從簡讓大家就是把這個不管是每個國民都把這個當作是一個非常重要的事情的話其實我們的這個主張它的金額我們當然主張是拉到最高啦就是20萬"},{"start":2863.056,"end":2890.971,"text":"這個部分其實我覺得政策它是可以檢討的就是說三年可以來再重新調整一次看它的實際的效果不然有時候做了半套效果不好其實大家也是花了那麼多時間反而那個效果並沒有達到好吧您再算一算把牌付拿掉這個稅水會增加多少好不好像今年我們退稅六千塊有沒有牌付"},{"start":2892.216,"end":2921.07,"text":"沒有排富嗎我覺得不管有錢沒錢沒錢的其實要給他額外的補助有錢人或是中富的人多鼓勵他生小孩因為生小孩日後解決很多問題兵役問題、勞力問題還有人口老化的問題你知道我們去年台灣出生率是全世界第幾名嗎"},{"start":2923.038,"end":2950.771,"text":"最後一名所以本來有人還要提連我都支持生第二個小孩送一百萬送第二個小孩送三百萬鼓勵他生但是我想即使這樣子都很難達到預期效果你想想看多一個小孩多一百萬的話第二個小孩多一百萬他日後如果繳稅可以多"},{"start":2952.883,"end":2975.539,"text":"替社會多繳多少稅要從這個重賞之下看希望有成效我非常認同張偉所講的其實補助只是其中一個方法接下來是要打造一個友善的育兒環境然後從整個人口結構跟長期發展來考慮它會解決國軍招募的問題產業缺工的問題私校退場的問題還有整個我們後面社會福利的這個"},{"start":2981.463,"end":2996.951,"text":"社會能量的一個支持我們現在的人口結構是頭重腳輕但是這個事情如果現在不解決20年後會更嚴重所以這個應該要從這個角度來去思考在稅損可以接受的範圍內大力的補助真的是這樣子因為平常講"},{"start":2998.432,"end":3017.72,"text":"現在還有很多東西不是只有這個東西就可以鼓勵人家生小孩還有我們托育的政策像公托要不要增加公托大家比較放心你知道嗎你到民間托你政府出的那個錢縣市政府都有補助"},{"start":3019.293,"end":3045.143,"text":"真的是這樣子不是只有這個所得罪法第17條大家要全力配合但是放心我跟我太太商量過了我們兩個不再勝了我們今天協商就請院長盡快也拜託也拜託這個負稅組這邊盡快把它把它再試算一下好不好好我們就謝謝各位我們就散會"},{"start":3053.21,"end":3053.55,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"148897","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148897","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da37b5ede6b2be0dd9f6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322574b4901b66d94185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:17:04 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12:22:36","影片長度":"00:05:32","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":332,"end_time":"2023-12-06T12:22:36+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T12:17:04+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":955,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時17分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請潘部長。"],["主席：有請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，既然相關的賽事協會都有獲得運動發展基金的補助，所以我也認為教育部基本上來講不應該置身事外，因為你們是主管機關。本席現在秀出來的這份資料顯示，中華民國電競運動協會在你們的預算書裡面也都特別提到是有補助相關經費的。可是我要再問另外一個現在大家也很關心的議題，就是現在棒球亞錦賽正如火如荼在臺灣開打。體育署很好，本席也給予肯定，你們有表示喜迎棒球亞錦賽，歡迎我國民眾到場為我們加油。那我想請教一下部長或署長，你們有沒有掌握這次我們的球員參加亞錦賽有什麼樣的激勵獎金？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前在亞錦賽的部分我們有國光獎章的獎金。"],["洪委員孟楷：國光獎章、國光獎金？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：有訓練費？"],["鄭署長世忠：組訓的費用我們都有支持。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，那麼出席費呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前我們沒有針對出席費給予支持。"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼沒有出席費？"],["鄭署長世忠：這部分我們還是尊重協會，協會這部分當然它跟選手之間……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們的法令怎麼規定？國民體育法的規定是：「中央主管機關……零用金制度。特定體育團體舉辦或參與具收益之商業性賽會時，應支付選手出賽費。」"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，如果亞錦賽在棒協的部分有收益的話，我們會要求棒協能夠跟我們的選手……"],["洪委員孟楷：目前是否要求了？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前因為還沒有收益，所以還沒有進行這樣子的……"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼叫目前還沒有收益？門票都已經開賣了啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：過去我們補助協會，如果協會收入大於支出的話，是必須繳回國庫的。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是重點在於現在我們沒有辦法確認到底我們亞錦賽這些球員……","現在開幕賽已經打了，我們第一天4比0贏韓國，大家都很興奮，選手表現很好，然後現在選手正在晉級，甚至有人講說，這次我們因為是地主，所以非常有可能奪冠，是不是？結果到目前選手打一天算一天，然後不知道有沒有出場費！身為主管機關，這樣合理嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：這一部分我會再跟棒協研議。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到目前為止還沒有討論到這個？本席接獲爆料說，到目前為止去詢問了現在出賽的球員，兩個球員都回復說沒有出席費，有的可能就是訓練費和國光獎章，但是大家也認為，奇怪，國民體育法規定應該要有出賽費，而且這算是一個商業性的賽事，不能風光的時候大家全部來沾光，結果最基本的、我們的核心價值是選手、是球員的時候，選手、球員的權益卻沒有保障。部長認不認同？部長，您是大家長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，法規我想是明確的啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：是！"],["潘部長文忠：至於剛才署長也特別提到一點，它是不是能達到收益的部分，是需要再跟協會……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們當初國民體育法的定義有講收益大於支出，或是有相關的部分嗎？","本席現在提出這個問題是因為這次的球員大多數都是職棒球員，我們知道其實現在職棒賽季已經結束了，相關的球員如果多打比賽，第一，有可能冒著他們選手生命的風險，第二，他們的休息時間比較短。第三，打完這次亞錦賽之後，明年的賽季又要馬上集訓、要回母球團報到，其實某種程度上他們都是為國爭光。本席要提出來的只是，我們既然已經有嚴格的制度和規定，就應該要符合，尤其體育署、教育部又是上位的主管機關，不要邊打邊走！不然現在已經在打，可能這兩天就會有賽事，難道這些球員就要在不瞭解到底今天這一場有沒有、明天那一場有沒有這個狀況下參賽？這是態度問題吧！部長。"],["主席：因為時間的緣故，部長是不是事後再以書面回應或怎麼樣？"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席點出來只是因為確實有人爆料，本席也接獲報料，也確實有人有反映，我們看到國民體育法既然有這樣的規定，大家也都想要瞭解主管機關的態度，如果主管機關只是得過且過或是認為再來溝通，可能對選手是沒有保障的。其實出場費也沒有多少錢啦！說實在的，這是「奇檬子」（日語「気持ち」）的問題，但是如果連最基本的這些都沒有辦法保障的話，我們不知道還有什麼是能夠保障的！我想這一點也是我們今天要修法，討論不管是大巨蛋條款或者是之前的魔獸條款，要禁止所謂黃牛票的原因。本席也有提案，我們要的是主管機關有明確的態度來嚇阻一切不法，並且保障我們選手的生命。這樣可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，是不是事後再回應，好嗎？時間已經超過了。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢，部長請回、署長請回，謝謝。","今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，另有委員劉世芳提出書面質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148896","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148896","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da38a1901abd1688d4e6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03228c21961156552d785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"12:05:49 - 12:16:53","影片長度":"00:11:04","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":664,"end_time":"2023-12-06T12:16:53+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T12:05:49+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":895,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（12時6分）主席好，我想請一下潘部長。"],["主席：好，潘部長請。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長好。謝謝主席今天安排了針對2024年巴黎奧運的專報。我想先請教一下部長，你知不知道這個運動選手是誰？"],["潘部長文忠：文姿云。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，表示部長也有在關心。你知道他得到的是什麼樣的銅牌嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員指的是什麼時候？"],["鄭委員正鈐：東京奧運。"],["潘部長文忠：銅牌。"],["鄭委員正鈐：銅牌，對。他得了什麼項目的銅牌？"],["潘部長文忠：空手道。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，這表示部長對體育還是有一定程度的關心。可是我想問一下部長，你知不知道後來在今年2月份的時候他退出了我們國家隊？"],["潘部長文忠：我知道。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你知道原因是什麼嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：真正的原因，這個可能只有姿云自己比較能說明，他提了一些想法啦！可能自己也覺得……也許他有另外的生涯規劃。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這就是我為什麼在今天專報的時候，第一個是提出這個狀態，我們的國家對於國家級運動選手的照顧感覺不太夠啦！我在想這當然有幾個原因，比方第一個，他們在比賽過程當中，在整個生理跟心理上面壓力的處理、各方面的處理是不是足夠？第二個就是你剛剛講到生涯規劃的問題。我記得我們進立法院的時候，之前在討論相關的運動產業發展條例時，其實我們也特別希望能夠讓運動選手有更多的機會點，一開始提的時候，最主要就是希望我們對於運動選手的照顧能夠更全面，尤其是對於他們生涯規劃的部分。否則，我覺得一個國家級的運動選手……"],["潘部長文忠：對，謝謝委員，因為知道你關注，我也跟您說明一下，我為什麼剛剛跟您提到他有生涯規劃，這是我側面得到的訊息。但是對於我們的選手，尤其是國手、亞奧運的國手，我們本來就有一個專案，4年就會有100位有機會轉任他最專長的，他退役之後，當然擔任的就是專任教練這樣的職缺，而且這個部分從之前的東京奧運後，其實當時聘進來已經將近100位了，所以如果代表國家參加的選手，對於他未來退役之後，其實國家是用這樣的政策在支持，這個當然是從體育專業方面的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["潘部長文忠：我們希望讓選手也無後顧之憂，我跟委員報告，這個是從東京奧運之後我們就建立的一個選手退役後，另外繼續發揮他……"],["鄭委員正鈐：這也是我們持續希望去推動的部分……"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：100位部分……"],["潘部長文忠：現在這個制度每4年就100位。"],["鄭委員正鈐：每4年100位，它是持續下去的，對不對？"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：對於這種國際級的運動選手，我們希望能夠真正達到讓他們沒有100位的限制，能夠更廣，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個是我們講的那個專案，其實我們另外還有可以輔導有關在學校部分擔任專任教練的，這個當然不只100位。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好。"],["潘部長文忠：我剛才指的那100位是專門針對代表國家參加亞奧運的績優選手。"],["鄭委員正鈐：瞭解。所以我就在想這個部分，今天為什麼針對巴黎奧運這邊我們會特別提到這個點，運動比賽是4年一次，可是對於這些運動選手來講是一輩子的投入，所以我們希望能夠對他們有更好的照顧。","接下來我想問一個點，針對我們今年成立的運科中心，就運科中心的狀態，我知道國訓中心也有運科處，剛剛部長在回應其他委員的時候有提到一個狀態，就是運科中心大概以研究、研發的部分為主。"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：在實際上的訓練當中，就是國訓中心的運科處這邊去執行。那我想特別知道的是，明年巴黎奧運的時候會是第一次考驗運科中心的成果，雖然時間很短，因為我看了我們立法院預算中心提到的，到10月份的時候，整個運科中心大概只有執行長跟2個財會人員，其他的人都還沒有進來，目前情況如何？"],["潘部長文忠：到12月1日有十幾位、已經開始進來了。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以有十幾位進來了嘛？"],["潘部長文忠：因為9月16日才正式掛牌。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，因為今年大概8、9月才開始掛牌。"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以時間很短，到明年7月26日的巴黎奧運，其實時間也很短，我們希望運科中心能夠具體發揮成果，對於明年的巴黎奧運有一些影響。因此我這邊也特別關心，運科中心的這些資料、data主要從哪裡來？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，所謂的data是？"],["鄭委員正鈐：比方包括一些相關的數據，因為運科中心是需要量化、需要數據去做很多的分析，那目前運科中心的這些數據主要從哪些地方取得？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為現在國訓中心跟運科中心正式都以行政法人的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：是。"],["潘部長文忠：等於說他們是相同位階，只是就任務分工，讓這兩個中心的分工合作可以幫助到選手跟教練。而未來會建置有關我們選手所需要的資料，不過就這個資料庫我也跟委員報告，因為你也知道，這個涉及到運動競技場上對選手非常重要的一些資訊，這不是對外的公開資訊。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。你沒有這些數據，運科中心其實功能就會很有限，所以我要講的狀態是，我們現在運動員數據的收集主要從哪幾個學校，或者從哪些地方有合作配合去取得？"],["潘部長文忠：目前還沒有完全，所以這才是要成立運科中心最主要的考量。因為過去我們國訓的運科處主要是在於相關實務上面的協助，在研發這方面，從人員的組成，委員大概知道……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以我們目前有哪些學校跟運科中心會有合作，你知道嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我那一天聽完運科中心執行長的簡報，已經陸陸續續有幾個都是跟國內蠻頂尖的大學合作。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，我本來只想很簡單地跟你說，包括國體，包括清華大學，包括成功大學，包括臺北市立大學，目前4所學校跟運科中心其實有一些合作，它提供這些數據。我為什麼特別提到這些東西？因為這些東西是後續階段，你有足夠的資料庫、有足夠數據的時候，運科中心才能真正地好好去發揮。"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以本席提到這個點，只是希望透過這個部分，讓運科中心後續能夠更有效率地去發揮它應該要有的影響力，因為到明年的巴黎奧運只剩下七個多月的時間，我們希望運科中心能夠真正幫到這些運動選手，讓我們明年在巴黎奧運會有更好的成績。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這邊我再另外提到一個狀態，目前我們在國際奧委會有沒有代表？"],["潘部長文忠：目前沒有。"],["鄭委員正鈐：目前沒有嘛！這個部分也是我想要特別提到的點，因為針對明年巴黎奧運，其實有很多運動賽事的項目都有所調整，而對於我們國家事實上能夠得到多少的獎牌、是不是能夠持續維持在東京奧運當中這樣的成果，我們也非常地關心。其中有一個很大的部分，就是奧委會的代表委員這件事情，因為從吳經國2020年辭掉之後，我們目前其實是沒有人的，這也是五十年來第一次碰到奧運會的時候我們沒有奧委會的委員。所以本席認為，教育部應該要讓中華奧會這邊更積極地去跟國際奧委會那邊做一個互動，爭取能夠取得奧委會委員這115席裡面的1席，因為有奧委會的委員，對於我們國家整體運動的發展有非常大的幫助，這邊就特別叮嚀。","最後一個部分，針對整個電競運動這個部分，剛剛很多委員都問了，我想特別講到一個狀態，很多人都在講電競大賞，就是涉毒這件事情，這個部分是我們電競協會跟國內、國外的關係，而體育署明顯是這個協會的一個指導單位。針對這個涉毒的事情我只想特別講一個點，因為電競對於青少年圈子裡面的影響非常大，我們除了究責之外，我們也希望教育部能夠把這個事件變成反毒當中很重要的一個切入點，透過這個部分，不要讓年輕人覺得涉毒之後還可以當頒獎人，頒獎人感覺比參賽選手更厲害、感覺層級更高。所以我希望教育部能夠透過這個事件，好好地在校園當中推動反毒的宣導。因為這件事情剛剛已經有很多委員提到，所以我就不再特別請部長回應，我只希望利用這個機會大規模宣導反毒的部分，不要讓「電競大賞」這個事件影響到年輕朋友的價值觀，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：好，一定。反毒宣導一直都持續在進行，有一些要特別注意的，我們會加入宣導內容，再提醒所有的師生。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。潘部長、署長請回。謝謝鄭正鈐委員的質詢。","再來我們請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148895","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148895","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da32107a630af34d6d26208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322b1bcf6602cd8e9da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王婉諭","委員發言時間":"11:59:34 - 12:05:43","影片長度":"00:06:09","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":369,"end_time":"2023-12-06T12:05:43+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T11:59:34+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":865,"blocks":[["王委員婉諭：（11時59分）主席，有請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["王委員婉諭：部長，我們知道今天有很多人都在討論電競協會的事情，但是除了電競協會之外，其實還有很多有問題的單項協會，不好意思，我想請教部長就好了，謝謝！好，我們今天想要談足協的問題，之所以要特別問部長就是，這個問題其實已經談過非常多次了，署也給我們很多想法和很多的建議，但是始終沒有辦法解決，我們認為部長應該要來面對這些問題。足協的欠款和財務的狀況從去年開始，包括今年的3月、5月，我們都提出來很多部分，署長一直說會處理、我們要來努力處理；但是最後我們收到的都是足協的說法，看不到體育署自己的調查報告，包括今年初的時候體育署也表示，會以選手為重，儘速地優先歸還；可是我們5月問女足工會的欠薪，體育署也承諾要盡力來做協助；10月我們卻看到其他委員，包含莊競程委員、陳秀寳委員都召開了記者會，到現在出場費也還沒有給、還沒有還；還有，我們看到他們今年1月到泰國去踢友誼賽，2月到紐西蘭參加世界盃的附加賽，出場費到現在也仍然沒有給，甚至現在連這種五人制比賽也有欠薪的狀況；所以我們想問的是，體育署說要處理，但是到現在仍然沒處理，也沒有以選手優先為重。我們想請教，如果這不是包庇縱容，什麼才是包庇縱容？尤其是10月底，我們也收到最近一次調查的報告回來，足協還了一千多萬，但是裡面選手的錢什麼時候可以給？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，因為足協過去在財務上的這些情形確實是相當地嚴重，從新任理事長上任以來，我得到的資訊─他確實也積極地在財務上面來做處理，目前已經把這個財務大概解決了1,800萬。當然還不夠啦！我只是說……"],["王委員婉諭：部長，你知道還有欠多少錢嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：詳細的數字我可能手上沒有，但是我知道之前確實是一個比較大的財務困境。"],["王委員婉諭：是，依照10月給我們的資料，我想問的是，到底這些出場費給了沒有？今年欠薪、所欠的這些費用到底給選手了沒有？因為我們收到的報告是說，112年度的各項費用沒有任何積欠，那麼這些委員之前的記者會是開假的嗎？難道足協的說法是錯的嗎？我們想先澄清、釐清到底足協該給他們的出場費有沒有給？今年到底還有沒有積欠相關的費用？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個細節我需要再瞭解。"],["王委員婉諭：好，部長，我覺得這個必須要來做……"],["潘部長文忠：我只是知道從3月到現在有積極處理1,800萬左右的欠款，至於還款對象是不是包含給選手的出場費等等，這個我可能需要瞭解。"],["王委員婉諭：部長，我們真的希望你能夠一起下來看這個問題啦，因為體育署一直跟我們說沒有欠款，給我們的報告也說112年沒有欠任何費用；但是剛剛提到1月在泰國、2月在紐西蘭的這些賽事都是發生在今年，就是112年度，委員們已開過記者會、女足也出來說明了，但是仍然沒有收到回應，我們收到的仍然是沒有任何積欠的費用。這樣子各說各話的情況，我覺得大家完全沒有辦法接受，這就是為什麼我們今天希望能夠由部長來回答，部長，我們希望大家開記者會、大家提出的訴求真的應該要被看見，而且更應該要被解決。這部分是不是能夠具體告訴我們，什麼時候會給這些出場費？還有，你們到底有沒有心來解決這些問題？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，任何民間團體的財務損失這方面，我想當然從監督輔導上，我們會積極地去處理，但是對於現在他們在進行……因為這些裡面有很多都是我們的選手、球員，包含曾經有幾項他們沒有辦理的青年盃或女足……"],["王委員婉諭：部長，我們只要一個承諾，能不能也把選手的權益考慮進去？"],["潘部長文忠：那當然。"],["王委員婉諭：從今年的部分優先來處理，不要再積欠任何的出場費用。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為它財務欠款的狀態已經有一段時間啦！現在我跟委員報告，它從3月到現在已經補強大概1,800萬……"],["王委員婉諭：這是廠商的部分，那麼選手呢？"],["潘部長文忠：是，所以我說，現在因為教育部不可能去幫它協助財務損失的部分，但是現在有很多選手……"],["王委員婉諭：但有監督的責任，讓它能夠上軌道的責任。"],["潘部長文忠：當然有，這才會說為什麼從3月到現在，要求它已經清償1,800萬，也是這個意思。"],["王委員婉諭：是，我們今天談的是選手的權益能不能也涵蓋在這個清償的範圍裡面？能夠優先來處理選手的權益，不是只有處理廠商而已。"],["潘部長文忠：這個我們會繼續來督導足協，但是現在進行的這一些……"],["王委員婉諭：我們今天並不是提出一個很嚴重的要求說，要今年立刻還完這9,000萬的債務，我們不是這樣談的喔！我們說今年開始沒有積欠任何的費用，是不是也能夠涵蓋選手的出場費優先來處理？"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["王委員婉諭：是，我們希望部長有這樣的承諾，你們具體來推動，當然我們也看到財務問題的確是非常大，但是體育署、教育部難道沒有責任嗎？當然有，體育署對現在的足協好不好？很好，上一屆的足協比賽補助了6成5，現在補助到8成，讓他們少了很多自籌款的壓力，但是我們卻看到仍然沒有還錢給球員們，這是我們覺得非常生氣的部分。所以我們希望剛剛提到具體承諾選手的部分能夠優先處理；第二個部分就是，也要善盡監督管理的責任，讓他們能夠還完選手們的費用，並且如何來做協助？包括像是代位求償的可能性。我們也希望部長這邊能夠一起來關注，因為這並不是我們首創的，包括外國像加拿大足協去年就有跟 FIFA來貸款，我們也希望體育署、教育部能夠共同來努力，讓他們能夠優先來處理選手的權益之外，也儘快地釐清調查的報告，以及告訴大家你們能夠如何來協助還款？我覺得這部分都應該要跟大家做說明，不是只有告訴我們努力而已。"],["主席：因為已經超過時間了，部長這邊是不是事後以書面回應好嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["王委員婉諭：好，謝謝部長！"],["主席：部長請回，謝謝王婉諭委員的質詢。","再來請鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148894","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148894","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da354fffbbd2b6adb526208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03226f46c1729c39bb995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:52:15 - 11:59:28","影片長度":"00:07:13","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":433,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:59:28+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T11:52:15+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":841,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時52分）謝謝主席，有請教育部潘部長還有體育署署長。"],["主席：有請潘部長跟鄭署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長好，我在質詢教育部都是以比較肯定的一個態度，但有幾個問題要來就教，就是我們今年整個臺灣籃球界格外的熱鬧，我想除了國際賽特別多以外，場外的風波其實也很多。","我想有幾個問題，就是關於臺灣亞運男籃的培訓在今年的5月18號已經成軍了，在這次亞運男籃培訓隊中也看到發生了許多波折，比如說有國手指出，加入培訓隊以後才知道要打的比賽有這麼多，甚至還要到日本去打交流賽，而籃協每一年最重視的比賽就是體育署每一年補助了一堆經費的瓊斯杯，這些國手竟然沒有任何的保險！","整個亞運開打，由前籃協舉辦的一個跨聯盟邀請賽中，因為不滿職籃公會的協助培訓，從7月份以來就公開呼籲跟爭取，他們也認為沒有獲得重視跟改善，培訓隊才宣布退賽，不參加聯盟的邀請賽；由籃協選拔主訓的國家代表隊卻因為資源的匱乏而退出籃協主辦的比賽，這實在是很沒有面子。我相信署長你以前也待過協會，應該感受特別深刻。","在今年6月底、7月初的時候，當時本席知道有一個代表隊要去日本打交流賽，一隊這麼多人，竟然只帶一個防護員，這個很離譜啦！我跟部長和署長反映了以後，你們也都大力支持，所以這部分我表達肯定。但當時本席跟署長及部長反映增加後勤編制，署長那時候很豪氣，部長也說大力支持，未來在10人以上的代表隊，最少要配2名防護員，這個本席先表達肯定，但也要指出來的是整個後勤的編制，尤其是防護員，人數的比例倒也不是一概全部定幾個人，應該是針對比賽的項目、層級、強度來做分別的設定。部長跟署長，譬如電競代表隊的人數跟棒球的強度就有所落差了，尤其現在在整個國際賽裡面，大家看到情蒐人員對成績的貢獻其實是有目共睹的，職棒在參加國際賽也不斷擴充情蒐的團隊；這次亞運，本席也建議應該再增加情蒐人員。但體育署支持，協會卻不將人數報進去，我覺得這是一個很離譜的方式，判斷理由當然很簡單，他們說亞運發入場證時有人數的限制，但其實這些都可以有變通的方式，我們自己買票進去就好了，不是這樣子嗎？所以這個理由我看起來都不通。","每一年幾乎都有各種層級、各種運動項目的國際賽，關於這個部分，教育部跟體育署是不是可以儘快展開研議？"],["潘部長文忠：是，跟委員報告，確實剛才委員提到，包含在今天的報告我們也特別提到這些後勤人員在參與像亞奧運等級的比賽，他們在大會籌備會確實都會對各國有人數限制。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對。"],["潘部長文忠：但我們這次採取跟委員提到的一樣，以比較權變的方法，我們這次會去設類似中繼站的概念，那麼中繼站就不在他們大會規範的範圍，但是我們的人員確實是可以到比賽國鄰近的現場，我想這方面我們會確實從選手、教練的需求裡面，把這一些後勤的部分，就是過去我們常常會說在總量的限制之下，結果沒有辦法去做支援的部分，明年在2024年巴黎奧運會有一個比較彈性的規劃。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，另外就是我們整個國家運動科學中心9月16號也正式揭牌了，我要請教部長跟署長，我希望未來在國家隊後勤編制配備的部分，這個運科中心扮演的角色，譬如除了比賽本身技術的支持之外，是否可以在後勤隊組成的階段納入整個運科中心共同去參與？其實像這一些不管是賽前或者整個賽事安排的部分，政府既然補助了那麼多錢，這個地方教育部或者體育署其實應該再去做一個更完善的要求才對。"],["潘部長文忠：是，跟委員報告，也謝謝大院這邊的支持啦！運科中心掛牌成立已經開始運作，目前也正在招募，未來運科中心跟國訓中心在有關協助選手、教練的運科人員部分會做好分工，運科中心未來在整個研發這一方面，當然就包含委員剛剛提到的幾項，這個會是他們主要的任務；實務的人員等於說跟選手直接……譬如這些相關人員在實務的這部分，會由運科處來協助，所以兩個單位會做這樣子的分工合作。"],["莊委員瑞雄：職籃工會其實不斷地在呼籲，他們是否可以比照職棒工會的模式？由雙方去簽署運動員參與國家的一個協約，提供運動員更大的保障，過去這個部分其實幾乎都是狗吠火車啦！今天部長跟署長都在這個地方，我們期待像這種情況都要去做一個改善啦。","我最後一個問題就是，大家在說的賭博這個問題，運動賽事涉及到賭博的問題，你從過去來看的話，為了防範整個職業運動簽賭跟打假球的部分，媒體其實都報導很多，職棒的部分過去也有很多的例子，還有職籃的部分，我們都希望這一些案子在整個職業賽事裡面，體育署跟教育部這個地方也必須……"],["主席：不好意思！因為時間到了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你要把那個規範事先去做一個防範，前面有太多的例子了。"],["主席：我們請潘部長事後再回應好不好？事後書面回應。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長跟體育署這個地方要特別去回應整個社會對這方面的不滿跟要求，過去有太多知名的教練或者球員，轉個身分到最後還是涉案，這個我們看了都非常痛心啦！事後我也請部長跟體育署這個地方要特別注意，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員！"],["主席：謝謝莊委員的質詢，我們請潘部長事後再回應好嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝！部長請回、署長請回，謝謝莊瑞雄委員的質詢。","下一位是王婉諭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148893","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148893","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da342495c58e4589aa86208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322856f357d07cd4c695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李貴敏","委員發言時間":"11:45:56 - 11:52:09","影片長度":"00:06:13","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":373,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:52:09+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T11:45:56+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":792,"blocks":[["李委員貴敏：（11時46分）謝謝主席。主席，麻煩請部長跟體育署署長。"],["主席：好，潘部長還有鄭署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["李委員貴敏：兩位好，兩位知道電競奧運，現在國際奧運主席宣布要計畫舉辦電競大會，兩位知道嘛，對不對？好，知道電競可能會進奧運，那知道大概是什麼時候會舉辦嗎？最快的時間有評估過嗎？還是沒有？"],["潘部長文忠：我請署長跟您報告一下。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分在電競這個……"],["李委員貴敏：回答什麼時候就好了，好不好？"],["鄭署長世忠：目前國際奧會還沒有一個明確的時程，還在……"],["李委員貴敏：所以你們沒有評估，是不是？沒有評估還是有？"],["鄭署長世忠：因為目前連國際奧會跟亞洲奧會，他們的路線都不一樣。"],["李委員貴敏：所以沒有評估？簡單來講就是沒有評估。好，既然沒有評估，也難怪今天早上對於媒體提到關於電競大賞染毒的爭議情況之下，部長的回應是這樣子。部長，很坦白的講，以今天早上你對於媒體的回應，也就是發生這樣的事情，我剛剛聽到你講的是，第一個，你不知情，對不對？你剛剛是不是這樣講？"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["李委員貴敏：第二個，你回答的是，你將來就不給他們預算，但是你曾經給過他們300萬的獎勵嘛……"],["潘部長文忠：那不是獎勵，那是選手培訓跟比賽的錢。"],["李委員貴敏：對，但是你曾經給過他們嘛，是不是？"],["潘部長文忠：因為每一年都有選手要參加……"],["李委員貴敏：好，既然每一年都有選手，我並沒有反對這個，因為我剛剛前面為什麼講奧運會有這個項目，就表示理論上來講，體育署也好、教育部也好，都應該重視……"],["潘部長文忠：亞運今年已經列入了，亞運今年有。"],["李委員貴敏：都應該要重視嘛！可是你重視的這個，對於今天有爭議的事件，你處理的方式，憑良心講，部長，我是很不敢恭維啦！第一個，你就講要把這個預算鏟除……"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我沒有說這句話、我沒有說。"],["李委員貴敏：你解決的方案不是將來不給他們預算嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不是。委員，我從頭到尾沒有說，因為那個是要培養選手跟比賽的費用。"],["李委員貴敏：沒關係……"],["潘部長文忠：不應該說這個主辦的……"],["李委員貴敏：那剛才其他委員在問的時候你也沒有釐清啊！你對它將來的懲處方式是怎麼樣呢？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我們應該要先進入做調查，因為這個事情發生的時間很短，第一時間外界都以為這是體育署指導的活動，這個東西不釐清，這個我想是第一個……"],["李委員貴敏：不是，NO，你的這個東西是第二個，我就是反對你用甩鍋的方式……"],["潘部長文忠：這不是甩鍋。"],["李委員貴敏：我們看到的……"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這是事實，怎麼叫甩鍋？"],["李委員貴敏：它是甩鍋，部長……"],["潘部長文忠：這是事實，不是甩鍋。"],["李委員貴敏：你不需要動怒，我好好跟你講話，你不需要動怒。"],["潘部長文忠：不是，委員，這是事實啊！它也沒徵得……"],["李委員貴敏：我告訴你什麼是事實，2022年時的電競大賞，體育署是指導單位，這個也是它冒名嗎？它也是冒名嗎？好，體育署長你對著麥克風講，2022年的這個冒名事件，到現在2023年，你不知道？你當指導單位……"],["鄭署長世忠：2022年電競協會有來文，請求我們……"],["李委員貴敏：你有沒有同意？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們婉拒了，我們不同意。"],["李委員貴敏：你婉拒了，它把你擺上去，你不處理？你不處理是你的態度，對不對？你當時既然婉拒，為什麼2022年它擺上去的時候你不處理？到現在已經1年多的時間，你還理直氣壯？現在2023年，當它把你擺上去的時候，你既然已經知道前面的，你為什麼置之不理，等到事情發生之後，你才用讓它下架的方式，這個是解決的方法嗎？你還理直氣壯、還敢大小聲？我好好的跟你講，我問你的問題是民眾想知道的啊！我請問體育署，你要大小聲的話，我就請問你，不管是職棒、職籃涉賭的部分，你怎麼說呀？問題從以前發生到現在，你解決了什麼？你讓民間原來對於體育有這麼多的期待，我們國內有這麼多優秀的年輕人，或者是成年人，在學、在校都一樣，對於這些項目，大家都希望能夠鼓勵我們的選手，不管是學生或者職業選手，將來都能夠在國際間發光發熱。你的處理方式是這樣，憑良心講，部長，你剛才的態度我很失望，我告訴你為什麼，因為我們平常有一些東西是屬於教育部管的，你們在審酌這些基金會也好，你們意見多得不得了啊！你們的意見連為什麼、這個比率是多少，將來的活動應該這個少一點、那個多一點什麼東西的，你們意見多得不得了啊！對於奧運，將來在全球能見度這麼高的東西卻置之不理，然後你還講2022年你已經婉拒，婉拒到現在為止，在這個事件發生時才處理，你自己不該檢討嗎？剛才吳思瑤委員還在這邊告訴你，你有三大不良、三大不公、三大檢討，前面委員講的東西都成了廢話，完全沒有聽到你的耳朵裡面去嗎？"],["主席：好，因為時間已經超過1分鐘了，部長是不是事後再跟委員回應好嗎？"],["李委員貴敏：好，我再講另外一個，因為態度傲慢，然後我再提到另外一個，也拜託在事後回答……"],["主席：時間的關係，一句話好嗎？"],["李委員貴敏：沒關係，我只有講問題而已……"],["主席：一句話喔！"],["李委員貴敏：就是人才荒啊！對於人才荒，我們看到這些訊息，不管是施振榮也好或其他的，這些訊息都出來了，針對人才荒，教育部確實的解決方案是什麼？也拜託用書面，好嗎？"],["主席：好，謝謝。那就請教育部再書面回應，部長請回。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李貴敏委員的質詢。","再來請莊瑞雄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148892","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148892","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3839513e5c2ddeaef6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322a9812fb3964d63ac5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:33:59 - 11:45:50","影片長度":"00:11:51","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":711,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:45:50+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T11:33:59+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":768,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時34分）謝謝主席，有請部長跟署長。"],["主席（范委員雲）：請部長跟署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：大家早安。只有短短的8分鐘，有好幾個問題想就教於兩位，我就進入我的主題。其實我看待電競協會這件事情，一開始真的替教育部抱屈，也覺得你們是受害者被拖下水，但是越探究這個事件的本質，我越覺得教育部不能只是消極性的澄清，應當要有更積極性的作為。我綜整這整個事件有三個不良、三個不公以及三個我們要檢討的部分。三大不良，也就是協會主辦此一重要頒獎典禮的規劃是不良的，包括主辦單位冒用了體育署的名義，對不對？包括刻意去安排Toyz這樣一個爭議人物、毒販來頒獎給他的宿仇、宿敵統神，然後衍生了爭議，甚至我看來也真的恐怕就是有製造聲量的不良意圖，所以第一個不良就是它在規劃設計這整個典禮本身的居心不良。","第二個，沒想到頒獎典禮上副理事長陳柏壽再補一槍，他在典禮上的發言，我不曉得兩位有沒有聽到他說的，部長顯然不清楚。這個陳柏壽副理事長稍後再上臺做了一個總結，他居然說：「電競生涯是個運動也是娛樂，棄賽、罷賽、吵架、粉絲吵架、操粉或是主播去把粉絲也都是有的，所以沒關係、沒關係，大家理性看待就好。」這就是補一槍啊！一個副理事長是用這樣子的心態在看待一個重要的頒獎典禮，看待一個國家扶植的重要的電競運動產業，我覺得非常的居心不良。","第三個不良就是，在事後我們也看到，協會的理事之一黃智仁怒辭理事，他說評審會議連半次會議都沒有開，所以這樣一個協會的運作、治理是有問題的，連理事都以怒辭理事這樣子的抗議作為來彰顯出這個協會的運作跟治理大有問題，有三大不良。","然後有三大不公，當然對教育部不公平啊！你們被冒用了，你們只能道歉再道歉、澄清再澄清，對你們確實不公啊！對於其他的電競團體或是選手不公平，因為被貼上了一個標籤，好像電競的就是跟販毒的走在一起，貼上了一個負面的不當觀感，對這些選手不公平啊！對整個電競產業更是不公平，我們使了多大的力去投入，年年補助，結果獲得這樣的下場，三大不公！","好，我們應該做三大檢討，第一個是對不肖的單項協會依法裁罰，這個我稍後再說。第二個，對於各單項協會的輔導要加強，剛剛這個怒辭理事的人已經說了，該開的會沒有開，它的運作就是有問題，沒有依章程、沒有依人民團體法來運作，就應當加強輔導。第三個，對於任何主辦、協辦、受補助的活動，要建立一個指導準則。這個事件可以帶給我們唯一一個正面的，就是未來體育署針對任何一個有給過補助的協會，或真的有可能是合作掛名的，我們如果對於其活動舉辦的過程沒有更多輔導跟管理的話，可能都會有類似的事情。","好，我回到我的第一點，請看下一頁，國民體育法是有工具的，處罰協會的爭議行為，國民體育法是有工具的，從早上的質詢聽到現在，部長也好，署長也好，一副都沒辦法、一副都看看怎麼辦的樣子，我們來督導、輔導他們，有工具可以用，這是我們上一屆很努力修法的國民體育法，在第四十三條有規定「特定體育團體有違反法令」，它有沒有違反法令？有啊！不當運作，該開的會沒有開，它就違反人民團體法啦！這一條還有規定違反章程，它也違反自己的章程啊！甚至規定特定體育團體有妨害公益情事，請問這件事情是不是嚴重的妨害公益─公共的利益？如果有這些情事，主管機關也就是教育部、體育署得予以警告、撤銷其決議、停止其業務之全部或部分，並限期令其改善。屆期未改善或情節重大者，得為下列之處理：第一是停止獎勵、補助；第二是撤免其職員，這個副理事長有沒有不當？辦理這個活動的承辦人有沒有不當的居心？第三個是限期整理這個協會；第四是移送人民團體法的主管機關去廢止許可；最後一個最重，就是命令解散。","所以我們有工具，我認為這個事件是情節重大、有不當居心還有不良的運作，它違反了自己的章程、違反了法令，而且有嚴重妨害公益的情事，是可忍，孰不可忍。剛剛你們的回答只說我們未來在獎補助可能就嚴格來審查，甚至委員建議說是不是列為黑名單，你們能做的政策工具只有這樣嗎？從這個事件的爬梳，我真的認為這個協會刻意的安排了這樣一個頒獎典禮，它要去操作它的流量，它要去製造話題，結果弄巧成拙、引發眾怒。部長，工具在這裡，您同不同意它嚴重的妨害公益？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為這個事前我們真的確實不知道。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，事前不知道，OK，我沒有苛責你說你一定要知道，但是在發生了以後……"],["潘部長文忠：是，我也請體育署在第一時間當然要釐清，因為對社會各界不釐清這個事情，大家反而會霧成一團。第二階段當然是對這個協會所辦的相關事項也要做一個深入的瞭解，所用的法規本來就是國民體育法，當時修法……"],["吳委員思瑤：部長，所以我提點出來，我認為在調查之後，我們如果經判讀認為它確實有不當的居心、不當的操作，有刻意的安排，明知這個人是一個毒販，還刻意讓他上臺頒獎，有嚴重妨害公益的情事，要給他們非常嚴重的處罰，這也才能夠殺雞儆猴，解決我剛剛說的，未來我們輔導這麼多的團體，沒有辦法把我們的手伸到每一個應該自主獨立運作的協會或團體裡面，但是你藉由一個事件做了深刻的檢討跟反省之後，殺雞儆猴，未來所有的協會在舉辦活動，他們在處理任何的細節，邀請代言人也好，頒獎人員也好，我相信都會更為慎重。工具在這裡，也就是我不接受早上你們軟趴趴的回應。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，沒有啦！我們把事情先釐清楚。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，那先釐清。"],["潘部長文忠：因為這是發生在深夜，昨天教育部第一時間就請體育署釐清，我也請署長親自說明這件事情。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，那沒問題，部長，我聽到了，我聽到了！"],["潘部長文忠：第二，就是應該查辦裡面的事情嘛！"],["吳委員思瑤：好，很好，謝謝部長，聽到您非常強硬的回應，我覺得你們是被拖下水，當然教育部很無辜，但是從無辜當中我們必須建立機制，法律已經給你們一個很好的工具，否則這件事情如果沒有從嚴來處置，以後我們就繼續沒辦法下去，好不好？我提醒你們，國民體育法第四十三條有規定，社會都在看你們怎麼依法來辦理。當然，我同意要有一個調查的程序。","好，請看下一頁，我們把握時間，我可能後面的題目講不完，但是我要先提醒，署長，在17天後就要開運博會了，對不對？我們大家都這麼的支持運博會，包括思瑤在質詢臺上一再的希望你們精進，其實署長也非常的用心，私下來拜會思瑤，討論我們如何讓運博會一屆比一屆更好，讓策展更多元豐富。可是畢竟在17天後就要展開的運博會，在前17天也就是昨天才召開第一次的啟動記者會，非常可惜，對應於文博會，人家是4個月前就開始宣傳。我相信體育是新興國力，關心熱愛體育的族群、國人更多，只有在17天前開一個記者會，而且是一個一般般的記者會，我覺得非常的可惜。甚至我們點進去你們的網站看行銷的內容，就又回到這樣一個記者會的內容，其他到底有哪些展覽、今年的賣點在哪裡、今年的多元性在哪裡，並沒有被看見。請看下一頁，然後臺灣運動產業博覽會的網頁只有3,886個按讚，文博會有36萬個，當然，文博會啟動的時間比較久，可是對運博會我要再強調，熱愛運動的青年族群最多，他們對於社群的使用最熱烈，我們只有這樣子的行銷成效跟推廣力道是不夠的。","你們唯一發起的一個有趣的事情、比較吸引大家關切的就是票選體育金句，已經票選完了，報告部長，體育金句只有225個人去投票，這句話得了第一名，我今天質詢的時間到了，就以這個金句獻給大家，然後就在這裡終止，今年的運動金句獎人氣投票第一名，雖然它只有225個人按讚，但是它還是第一名，這句話就是「挫折就像槓片，你扛得起越多，你就越強壯」，部長知道「槓片」嗎？就是運動健身的槓片。我要用這一句今年的運動金句來回應我剛剛所質詢的，體育改革做了這麼久，我也要說鄭署長是我看到從以前到現在最勇於任事、最積極、最有開放性的署長，我給您很多的肯定，我們的部長更沒有話說，對於各項的教育改革非常非常的投入，但是挫折就像槓片，我們必須扛得更多，才會更強壯。對於我剛剛講的那個事件，希望讓我們有更大的力道去處置它，未來的社會就可以從一個負面事件讓我們得到正向的教訓跟正向的體制改革，好嗎？我們繼續加油，辛苦兩位了，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，部長、署長請回，謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢。","再來，我們請李貴敏委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148891","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148891","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da346888b907f796d2c6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a032230ce0a0a2c2b230a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:23:12 - 11:33:51","影片長度":"00:10:39","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":639,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:33:51+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T11:23:12+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":728,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時23分）謝謝主席，有請潘部長跟鄭署長。"],["主席：有請部長、署長，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：部長，還有署長早安！我今天就提出兩個問題，一個問題是跟黃金計畫有關，那另外一個就是我們今天的主題，巴黎奧運相關性別平等的準備。簡報當機了，避免浪費時間，我先口頭詢問好了。","我想黃金計畫是我們一個非常重要的計畫，因為我們投入了非常多的資源，也跟我們備戰奧運相當有關，大家很關心的是誰來決定誰能夠獲得黃金計畫的支持，因為我們從107年到110年就編列了24億，那是我們政府一個非常重要的體育資源，重點在協助誰是有奪牌潛力的菁英選手，可是當我們想瞭解黃金計畫的時候，就發現這個決定機制蠻神祕的，就是它有一個競強會，然後總副召集就是國訓中心的正副執行長，那其餘委員就由國訓中心執行長聘任，所以看起來國訓中心執行長就幾乎可以決定什麼樣的委員，我並不是說他的決定不好，只是這個權力蠻集中的，可是我們進一步想去瞭解，可不可以知道過去這個競強會的委員是什麼樣的名單，就發現這個名單沒有辦法索取，索取到後來是遮蔽的，我們第一次索取的時候，遮蔽全名，後來第二次索取的時候沒有遮蔽，但是以密件辦理，所以我想這資料已經形同如國防一樣的神祕，後來我們再繼續想瞭解，因為主要是我覺得一般來講，對於這種資料，審查委員在決定前不公開是可以理解的，可是在名單已經決定之後的一段時間好像就應該公開，可是體育署拿法務部的資訊告訴我們說這是內部意見，資訊公開將有礙於最後決定之作成，現在決定已經做成，他又說作成決定後，如將內部擬稿公開，仍有可能造成相同困擾，故不予提供或公開，我覺得這個是有一點點奇怪，因為如果你們遴選的原則是很公平的，委員本來就應該要受到檢視，不管是什麼獎項或者是我們國科會的審查，現在因為政府資訊公開，這個並不是內部擬稿或是誰寫談參給您這樣的事情，而且依照政府資訊公開法第三條，對公益有必要者得公開或提供之，我想不管是任何一個協會或是任何一個選手想瞭解的話，這都是公共利益，立法委員要質詢的話也是公共利益，我覺得公開透明、可問責應該是我們不能退讓的核心價值，政府，尤其是體育署這麼重要的計畫，我覺得應該要檢討一下委員遴選的方式跟選手選拔的標準，怎麼樣讓各界覺得很有公信力。","當然我這邊是寫立即公開，但我想你們應該評估一下，我給大家參考，像國科會的網站上就寫得很清楚，為營造公平公正的審查環境，將公開初、複審委員名單接受外界檢視，名單於每年申覆結束後12月底前公開。因為國科會也是決定上千萬甚至更高的經費預算，每年一定會有爭議嘛，你覺得他很優秀，那他覺得他沒申請到，除了有一個複審、申覆機制之外，委員的審查名單會整體公開，不會公開特定案件就是誰審的，可是總是有一群人在做決定。這部分我覺得對於爭議的彌平跟體育署及政府的公信力很重要，不知道能不能3個月內針對這兩點都給我一個檢討的報告呢？"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝召委。我想事後公開相關委員的名單，這方面我會請國訓中心應該要來研處此一方向，因為確實事前公開比較不宜，因為事前可能會造成一些不必要的……"],["范委員雲：對，因為事前怕被影響、關說等等，事前不用公開。"],["潘部長文忠：對，反而影響他的客觀專業性，但是事後公開這是必要的，也可以讓社會瞭解我們所遴聘的委員，所以謝謝召委，我們會往您提的這方向來處理。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝部長。你們以後邀請的時候也可以事先聲明，你們會在什麼時候公開。"],["潘部長文忠：是，如果這樣，也會讓應聘的委員事先瞭解到。"],["范委員雲：他就知道他要受到檢視嘛。我想這部分就是，因為這麼重要的資源分配，一定要讓外界覺得有信心，公平、公正、公開，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：是。好。"],["范委員雲：謝謝部長承諾，那就給你們3個月的時間。","再來，關於巴黎奧運，我們都知道它這次宣示要性別平等，也是有史以來首次做到男女選手數量相同的賽事，當然我們臺灣在選手的部分已經相同了，甚至女性選手的人數還更高。我們參與東京奧運的選手，男子有33名，女子有35名，落實性別平等值得肯定，可是除了選手平等之外，我比較關心的是他們有沒有平等參與決策。剛剛部長的報告裡面提及有逐步做到，可是我覺得還可以更積極一點，國際奧林匹克委員會已經達到委員本身的性別平等，你可以看到，我們在網站上找到的資料，2013年的時候，國際奧委會女性委員的比例只有20%，可是到了2022年，它已經做到男女各半，546位委員當中，男女的比例是1比1；31個委員會中，女性的比例也超過四成，這等於是創下紀錄。","可是我們看一下臺灣，2013年的時候，我們跟它很接近，它是8比2，我們是9比1，可是人家在9年、10年內進步這麼快，而我們2022年奧委會的組成還是8比2，就是說落後10年。部長，中華奧會是這麼重要的一個體育協會，我們要前進巴黎奧運，不能女性跟男性的選手人數1比1，可是決策者完全沒有性別平等。","另外，單項協會的問題也很大，女性理監事的比例也非常的低，監事部分還高一點，理監事合計的話不到五分之一耶！女選手人數都超過男生，但協會理事都是男性，我覺得這樣不大對等吧！我相信願意擔任理事的優秀女性應該很多，當然這有很多網絡（network）等各方面的問題。請看下一頁，這方面也請部長監督體育署趕快研究一下，是不是能夠支持單項協會理事性別比保障入法？如何保障體育場域內已經有實力，甚至超過男性的女性，他們的決策權也能夠達到國際奧會的水平呢？"],["潘部長文忠：是，謝謝召委。我想在今天的報告裡面，也有跟召委還有委員這邊報告目前我們的作法，包含體育署這邊，因為像單項協會或是奧會的委員是採任期制，在這個過程中，體育署有特別函知相關的單項協會，包含中華奧會這邊，因為這也是一個國際的趨勢。"],["范委員雲：對，我們要前進巴黎奧運，決策者都是男性，不大對吧？女性選手還比男性選手更多。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟召委報告一下，像剛才講的8比2，其實它的比例有再提升一點，我有看過大概到三成多了。"],["范委員雲：三成多？"],["潘部長文忠：但是我們比較希望，因為體育團體很特別，他們也都會跟國際對接，不管是中華奧會對接國際奧會，還是各單項協會對接國際單項協會，我相信臺灣也應該會朝國際規範的方向來做，我們會盡最大的力量來輔導跟協助單項協會，我們總要跟國際對接……"],["范委員雲：好，接軌一下。"],["潘部長文忠：對，但是過程中因為有任期，也有一些其他的因素，也許馬上入法這件事情，我想我不要……"],["范委員雲：麻煩你們評估一下是不是能夠入法，好不好？因為單項協會可能需要入法，我們才能處理。"],["潘部長文忠：是。我想那部分可能真的我們要再討論，因為上一次選舉之後，體育署這邊確實有給單項協會，他們自己也都知道國際也往這個方向在走，只是……"],["范委員雲：對，我們就加速，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：我們來加速輔導，跟他們做一些討論。"],["范委員雲：因為女選手已經超過男選手的比例了，對不對？所以這部分應該要加速，因為他們由下而上的改革好像出現障礙……"],["潘部長文忠：這個部分我再跟召委報告，就我們對女選手、女的團隊，我想我們幾位委員，包含思瑤委員……"],["范委員雲：我知道你們的支持是很多……"],["潘部長文忠：我們其實都有一些針對這個還有更單獨方案協助的……"],["范委員雲：支持很多，可是我現在說的是決策權的部分。"],["潘部長文忠：是，我知道，所以我說這個部分，因為有任期的限制，我們會在過程當中來做更多的協助跟輔導。"],["范委員雲：好，那請部長監督體育署來研擬、評估一下能不能修法，也是一樣3個月內給我一個報告，好嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["范委員雲：評估是否需要修法，然後怎麼處理。"],["潘部長文忠：好，評估這部分我們來進行。"],["范委員雲：好不好？謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["潘部長文忠：OK，好。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范委員，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。下一位請吳思瑤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148890","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148890","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da32881449b90aa87ed6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322e92a639789bad15d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張其祿","委員發言時間":"11:05:38 - 11:23:05","影片長度":"00:17:27","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":1047,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:23:05+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T11:05:38+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":691,"blocks":[["張委員其祿：（11時5分）謝謝召委，我們有請潘部長、鄭世忠鄭署長。"],["主席：有請潘部長、鄭署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["張委員其祿：部長好。抱歉電腦當機，稍等我一下，抱歉，我們先停一下時間。"],["主席：時間暫停一下。現在遇到電腦技術問題，我們是不是先休息一下，等到電腦處理完之後，我們再恢復開會，先休息一下，部長先請回。","休息（11時8分）","繼續開會（11時12分）"],["主席：好，我們技術解決了，恢復開會。","現在請張其祿委員質詢，要請潘部長嗎？"],["張委員其祿：請部長跟鄭署長。"],["主席：請潘部長跟署長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["張委員其祿：部長還有署長好。我想今天大家都在關心這個問題，我們也是最後再談一下，電競大賞頒獎這件事我們就不贅述了，沒有經過指導單位同意就把你們列名，這個到底有沒有法律的問題？部長或署長。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，確實體育署有關的體育運動團體非常多，當然他們也有多次提醒各個團體，如果要列名應該要徵得主管機關的同意，任何事件應該都是同樣的作法。"],["張委員其祿：後續它會有法律問題嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這部分我也請署長這邊對這個事件進行瞭解，一個當然是未經同意把機關名字掛上去的問題，另外一個，這個事件因為體育署還是具有輔導監督相關運動團體的責任，這方面應該說是輔導，也希望能夠就緒。對這個事件，體育署應該要要求電競協會提出整體事件的說明，我們應該做一個深入的瞭解跟後續的處置。"],["張委員其祿：好，部長這樣聽起來，反正總是要有一方負比較多一點的責任啦！當然部長的意思是說我們是監督嘛，現在到底它……"],["潘部長文忠：雖然事前都不知道啦！但這個事情確實對電競，而且對我們國家毒品防制的立場是非常嚴肅的，所以我說這個應該要進一步做這方面的瞭解跟處理。"],["張委員其祿：好，謝謝部長。當然，最主要是大家還是要弄清楚啦！如果說責任更多是在主辦方那邊的話，我們這樣子也是……我甚至覺得對這個整個事情我們還是要有一個比較明確的態度啦，不然後續大家會覺得好像在踢皮球的感覺。因為這件事本身，過去在2021的時候，我們知道那個時候沒有掛，是從2022開始掛，今年也掛，這已經算是他們協會的一個常態性活動，而且是從2022才開始有這件事，之前反而沒有。當然這個東西坊間也有人質疑，說我們有補協會這些錢嘛，尤其是從2022年開始多了30萬，大家就有點合理在想，是不是多了這30萬就是讓它做這個協會？當然我知道很難這樣講，反正我們預算是有增加，但也不是說這個增加的預算，就鐵定是幫它辦這場活動，所以現在問題是這樣，就是大家都有切割的理由啦，教育部體育署也可以說，我們之前有補助電競協會，但電競協會到底在做什麼，這我們也……說實話，我們立場是有點尷尬啦！我們不是沒有補助它，你看我們每年也編了這麼多錢，編了290萬以上在協助它，到底它拿著錢在做哪些事情？變成說年度工作計畫中我們是指導單位，那他們的工作計畫是不是……他們要怎麼分得很細？我坦白講，預算在他們手上了，他們會不會流用？我們其實也不見得完全這麼清晰啦！所以哪些活動變成屬於我們指導的、哪些我們不用，因為按照這個辦法，其實我們有寫到，如果是有這些事的、如果是在工作計畫內的，我們就會是指導單位了，所以這個東西、這個切分，坦白說，國人或民間也不見得會搞那麼懂，民間只有一個感覺，就是教育部是有拿錢補助協會，而協會辦了一些事情，但協會所辦的事情，是不是我們要概括承受所有協會的事情？所以我覺得，既然今天這個問題已經出來了，我們還是這樣講，就未來的制度面，到底怎麼樣會比較、更沒有問題？部長或署長怎麼看呢？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，那個細節也許就請署長跟委員報告，因為真的比較難去處理到單項，但是跟委員報告，我們補助協會的這一部分，尤其是特定運動體育，這個就是跟亞、奧運對接的項目，基本上的目標就是選手的培訓跟比賽，比如像委員們都會關心選手去異地比賽，因為現在是要爭取奧運門票的過程，他們有很多都是以這個為主，所以如果就體育署在協助的，尤其是這些特定運動項目協會的部分，基本上重點就在這裡，所以為什麼在第一時間體育署會很明確，而且協會也清楚的說明這是一個表揚活動，並不是……"],["張委員其祿：我瞭解，部長，當然我們在乎的還是後續、以後的標準，不然署長您是不是也可以說明，就這個case 之後，您覺得署裡面以後在掛這個指導單位的部分，它的那個切分要怎麼樣才精準？"],["潘部長文忠：我請署長跟您報告。"],["張委員其祿：好，謝謝。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，過去體育署一再的行文宣導各個協會，如果要讓體育署掛名指導單位，就一定要來文，我們內部其實有一個審理原則，比方說本署有參與規劃辦理的活動；或者是競賽規程活動計畫有送過來備查；有公益性質；或是公部門行政法人所舉辦的這部分，我們才會同意。事實上，它在2022年的時候，也有來文希望我們掛指導單位，但是我們婉拒了，所以我們從2022年開始，其實就沒有去擔任他們的指導單位。"],["張委員其祿：好，謝謝署長。我覺得這件事就是，第一個，我們把它落實，剛才您講的這個準則沒有問題；第二，就是後續要查察，像它這種case既然出來了，我覺得當然我們還是可以把它講清楚，對不對？我們其實已經拒絕你了，結果你還是這樣子，所以我才說它前頭是有它的法律問題。總之，既然這已經發生了，也是要向社會澄清清楚，謝謝署長。","部長再麻煩您了，我後面還有幾個小問題，這跟署長沒關係，部長你看，我們竟然有這種東西！當然這我們也沒辦法真的直接去管，因為很多都是在境外，你看這裡有個亞洲最大包養網站，而且上面說，接受包養的女性，每月獲得6萬多的零用金。而且據說這裡面有四成可能都是女學生，講難聽一點，我們學生的心智，其實他也年輕，甚至都是未成年，這樣真的非常的偏差，我們有沒有辦法在學校的教育上讓大家，尤其是我們的學生瞭解，不然以後搞不好會真的很嚴重，部長怎麼看？"],["潘部長文忠：這個議題因為我沒有進一步去瞭解，只是說這個部分，如果這涉及女性的這方面，確實本身都可能會有觸犯法律的相關問題，這個我們可能需要進一步跟警政單位瞭解一下……"],["張委員其祿：這個有沒有辦法跟數發部、警政單位合作？"],["潘部長文忠：對！對！對！因為它是一個訊息，教育單位比較不容易很深入地瞭解它的情況，因為這裡面有提到它可能會涉及女學生的這部分，我想我們可能要跨部會瞭解一下。"],["張委員其祿：其實沒有錯啦！現在ICT的引進，對於我們現代教育是很重要，可是同樣地，旁邊衍生的問題也很多，其實我剛才在財委會也在談這種金融的問題，也是很嚴重，因為很多都是年輕人，比如說變成金融小白，或者在這個區塊被騙、被詐騙，其實這都是連續性的啦！我是覺得這個部分在教育端，還是要從源頭來做，這個麻煩部長了，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["張委員其祿：最後還有一個小問題，部長，臺大校長昨天也講到這件事，您覺得呢？我們是立意良善，建議加薪還有其他的這些事情，但是不是能夠更彈性一點呢？因為坦白說，這就是我一路一直在主張的，其實認真講，陳校長講這件事，他的終極解案是什麼？就是像這種公立學校應該公法人化，他講的這些問題都得以解決了，所以既然陳校長已經提出這樣一個說法，部長怎麼看呢？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，當然，陳校長談的細節我沒那麼……但是如果就提供待遇這方面，為什麼我們會積極去處理，除了一致性提高學術研究費15%予以加薪以外，為什麼還會有一個彈薪的制度，關於彈薪制度，其實教育部都是相對應的……"],["張委員其祿：陳校長的意思就是沒那麼具有彈性。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，您也在大學任教，其實教育部有好多的制度是幫他們解開，但學校如果迫於壓力而希望齊頭，那我覺得整個做法就有點讓這個可能性變成好像最好是由教育部統一規定，但統一規定又說是一個大鍋飯，所以這個裡面有一點點矛盾，制度是彈性的，資源也是給與的，至於聘任的這部分，教育部之前也跟人事總處溝通，其實大學的名額已經可以相當程度的開放，但是大學必須附有財務規劃，不能說這一任的校長拼命的聘人，最後學校又說負擔不起人事費，而要中央補助，這樣才具有彈性，加上他自己能夠去做規劃，我覺得這樣才比較適切。"],["張委員其祿：部長，應該是這樣，我就最後一句話，臺大陳校長也已經點到核心的問題，我覺得這個問題的本質，你們最終還是要思考清楚，當然我來自高教界，我自己是認為，這個真的是需要結構性的轉變，不然的話，其實這些問題是很難解的，我也同意今天你訂了規則有問題，不訂也有問題，所以最終我還是要加強我自己的一個呼籲、倡議，其實我覺得公立的大學真的要往公法人的方向去走、去邁進，這可能才是一個最終極的解方，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員培瑜代）：請范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148889","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148889","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da30160bf17eeed85196208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a032237ae2d7d588d67db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:56:04 - 11:05:33","影片長度":"00:09:29","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":569,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:05:33+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:56:04+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":666,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時56分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長早安。我想要先幫部長說一下，關於這兩天電競事件，部長跟署長辛苦了，我們真的認真研究完資料，我要幫你們說其實你們真的沒有補助，也沒有剛剛這些問題，而且我們也知道其實教育部跟體育署長期以來對於毒品或者是相關的霸凌、體罰、性平、性騷事件等都是零容忍的態度，這個宣誓其實我們大家都非常非常的清楚，也很感謝部長跟署長在相關議題上確實都有非常明確在第一時間的表態，這個部分我們還是想要聊聊關於零容忍的部分。","關於零容忍的部分，我們在想應該不會只有口號，其實有非常多事情，而且會透過個案，像這兩天這個個案不斷表現出來，然後必須要讓教育部跟體育署作出回應，我想跟部長聊一下，其實從我二月遞補到現在，大概十個多月，我們發現其實有很多像假球事件、兒虐事件、性騷事件等相關事情的研究，回到體育署的主管相關業務裡面，相關的兒少事件我們發現有很多所謂大人的當事人他們其實就算在相關的懲處之後，都還是有機會一再一再地回到體育跟教育的現場，造成受害者的二次傷害，甚至他們可能都會在外面說體育署拿他們沒輒，但是我要說這個不是態度的……也不是體育署或教育部不處理的問題，可能是現行的法規造成了他們態度上的漏洞，這個部分我真的要拜託署長跟部長，我們來往下看一下。","最左邊這一張投影片在講假球事件，是澎湖國小在今年五月邀請打假球的張誌家到學校進行上課跟指導，我相信體育署相關的說法其實我們也討論過，他不是專任教練，而且可能也不會考教練證，可是我想部長跟署長來自基層教育系統，你一定瞭解像這樣子打假球的教練進到學校裡面，他帶給孩子什麼樣的潛在教育影響，這個部分我相信部長你一定認同我們共同有的擔心。","第二個，中間這個兒虐事件是在之前我們跟苗博雅議員辦公室共同追蹤，教文委員會陳秀寳委員也有質詢過相關的案子，這個當事人在去年十月被揭露對小球員施虐，相關調查事件之後也被兒少法裁罰，都沒有問題，相關法規看起來都補上了，可是在體育署補助的相關賽事裡面，這個人依然大搖大擺的以顧問名義繼續現身。再來最右邊性騷事件，我相信性騷事件，我想部長跟署長都非常熟悉，我們就不再多說。","所以這麼多、這麼多，我要講的是，現行法規我們好像看似已經做了一些處理，可是我們可不可以更積極地做一些事情呢？例如不要讓這些人說他們是人民團體就沒事了，或者是說像這一次體育署的電競事件，我必須說我覺得對體育署來說可能是一個烏龍狀況，所以我們今天可不可以花一些時間討論零容忍不要只是口號，而是我們可以有一個更積極的作為，我想要提出一個建議，我們可不可以建立一個所謂不受歡迎對象名單，讓這些名單裡面的人一旦他們在……以後教育部所屬的機關學校、教育部相關補助對象、教育部補助的相關輔導團體，他們可以有所依循，其實教育部之前在2009年的假球事件就已經建立一個教育部黑名單，所以其實有相關前例可循。我必須要說這個所謂不受歡迎的名單，我們想像的是不影響他的工作權，我們也不影響他個人各式各樣的職涯發展，可是就像這一次這個事情一樣，如果我們有這個名單可以依循，讓相關的機關學校、補助對象、輔導團體，他們可以在第一時間知道教育部原來有一個這樣的名單，大家在邀請專家、學者，邀請評審的時候，是不是就不要把這些大人排入每一次合作的對象裡頭？讓學校機關、輔導團體、補助對象可以有所依據，不要讓大家再用過去所謂礙於人情這樣的事情，好像難以拒絕他合作的可能性，不知道說到這邊為止，部長你有什麼想法？有沒有可能性？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，委員這個提醒很重要，但執行面我們確實也要再做一個研議……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，確實執行面需要討論。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，對於接觸兒童、學童的一些……我們有一個界定，當然也有一個程序啦，那個程序所指的就是我們……"],["陳委員培瑜：就是我剛剛說法規面確實都已經完備了。"],["潘部長文忠：對、對、對，法規面，我想委員應該也知道，就是適切的方式應該訂到哪個範圍，這個確實我們要……"],["陳委員培瑜：我跟部長分享一個，我之前跟終身教育司開會，我不是故意要講出來我跟部裡面的哪一個部會開會，他們當時有提到要辦家庭教育的活動，說要請一個明星當那個活動的代言人，我就不講那個明星是誰，一個男的藝人，當時他有非常良好的愛家爸爸、愛家男人的形象。結果教育部的司長就跟我說要找他來當那個活動代言人，偏偏那個活動是跟家庭教育有關，我一聽到那個名字我就跟司長和他的幕僚說你們要確定喔！確定要找這個人嗎？我問了三次，為什麼我這麼問呢？因為當時那個人雖然愛家形象非常良好，但是過往他曾在臉書上發言，分享他如何打他的小孩，他的小孩因為玩具沒有收好，所以他就怎麼打他。當然怎麼打小孩這件事情，我相信教育部或者是法務部對於家內零體罰這件事情，大家都積極在推進，可是當教育部的活動要請這樣一個代言人的時候，我不會說是司長的問題，我也不會說是教育部的疏漏，而是我們每天都這麼忙，我們不可能注意到每天哪些人又發生了什麼事情。","所以可不可以這個名單，在合乎相關法規，或是我們來討論相關的配套設置辦法，讓我說的所有機關、學校、補助團體，或者是各式各樣的活動、計畫，他們在邀請評審、頒獎人、教練、講師、合作對象、顧問的時候，他們至少有所依據能暫時先避開。尤其如果他們拿的是跟教育部有關的補助，不要到時候出了事情又怪到教育部頭上，所以我才說在不影響他們的工作權，也不影響他們的專業職涯發展下，讓相關的團體可以自己做出選擇、做出決定，當然相關的配套辦法，這個部分我們再討論。"],["潘部長文忠：方向我想是很重要，但在整個執行面上確實要留意一下，我想有很多的規範……"],["陳委員培瑜：我認同、我認同。"],["潘部長文忠：對，包含這個訊息、這個名單，它到底在怎麼樣的前提之下可以列進來……"],["陳委員培瑜：我想我們都可以再討論。"],["潘部長文忠：對，然後公開的程度等，我想委員應該瞭解我這個說法吧？"],["陳委員培瑜：好，有機會我們辦公室跟相關的部會再討論，好不好？最後因為還有一點時間，我想跟部長、署長討論，其實我們辦公室從2月開始，追了非常多跟體育有關的兒少題目。我要講一下，其實這真的是來自於我長期對兒少題目的關懷，而且不是只有針對教育部，其實我到各個委員會去質詢，也全部都是做跟兒少有關的，為什麼要做這些事情？其實兩公約國內法施行之後，我相信所謂的國際人權或者是兒童人權，對非常多的行政機關來說，都非常、非常、非常的陌生，甚至要怎麼樣把那些法規變成是可施行的政策，而不只是理念跟價值觀的宣導，我認為真的對教育部還有其他部會來說都是困難的，我必須這麼說。","但是在困難的路上，我真心想要說的是，這些事情真的必須要持續推進，就像一直以來跟部長還有署長討論的，不管是因為體育班的政策或是社區運動團隊，或者是我們看到體育暴力、不當霸凌、體罰的事情一再的發生，我們都想要誠心的拜託部長跟署長，在後續非常多政策的推動上，一定要始終相信站在兒少為主的出發角度，這件事情是重要而且必要的。在很多政策上，我們要幫孩子們想得更多，因為對於很多家長、大人、教練、老師來說，其實我剛剛說的兩公約也是陌生的，就真的必須要靠中央主管機關在法規上、在政策推動面上、在計畫施行上，都把這些事情當成是第一、第一、第一的優先，尤其是我們想要推動大家願意生、願意養。這件事情它回到國教系統，真的希望教育部可以持續努力，這個部分是我對部長跟對署長真心的拜託。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員，我完全認同，這些年整個教育政策的推動，確實就是以學生為主體這個核心概念，有些可能還做得不夠，委員，我想這部分，我們會繼續加油。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們一起加油，因為只有一點點時間，我就分享到這邊，謝謝主席，謝謝部長、署長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，部長請回、署長請回，謝謝陳培瑜委員的質詢。再來，我們請張其祿委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148888","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148888","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3d2d8440e5bff662066b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322608f955c00cc0db05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:51:54 - 11:00:13","影片長度":"00:08:19","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":499,"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:00:13+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:51:54+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":704,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時51分）謝謝主席。主席，有請黃天牧黃主委。"],["主席：好，主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：主委好。剛剛本席非常開心的是，聽到了朝野委員都對於公司治理非常的關注，但是我相信公股行庫跟民營行庫之間的公司治理目標應該是不太一樣的，比如說所謂民營的，當然就是為了求獲利、求績效；但是公股行庫之所以存在，當然就是要配合政府的政策。","我先來唸一個2021年7月份財政部的新聞稿，財政部面臨部分立委提出公股行庫沒有盡力來服務年輕的業者做一些紓困，所以立法院就要求公股行庫必須依照振興方案、紓困條例好好地執行關於企業紓困的部分，包括了公股行庫如何公平對待、積極辦理紓困、支持企業跟民眾資金的需求。","那我的言下之意就是說，公股行庫要面對立法院立委的要求，他們去要求財政部，然後財政部去要求公股行庫來做企業紓困，就是要求他們要做得比其他的民營行庫來得好。如果金管會現在介入調查，請問是查大股東財政部還是要求財政部的立法委員？因為剛剛您沒有辦法回答在野黨委員的質疑嘛，我現在是想到，不會到時候查到最後變成是立法委員被金管會給查了吧？這個其實就是棒打老虎雞吃蟲嘛！公股行庫的存在不就是為了配合政府的政策嘛？很多政策又是政府要求的，包括剛剛講到的打詐，我記得我在這個質詢臺或是我坐在底下或是您現在在備詢臺，有關於打詐，很多的委員也都要求銀行機構要負起責任，然後公股行庫要當第一線把關的、金管會要負起職責。在這裡，立法委員們不論朝野、一致都在要求的情況底下，現在會不會查了一輪是棒打老虎雞吃蟲啊？回到立法委員身上？","我是認為，剛剛您沒有好好的去回答公股行庫的責任跟它所代表的、它背後可能要來執行一些所謂的政策目標，跟民營銀行追求利潤、追求獲利不一樣，所以大股東的職責顯然也不一樣喔，主委，您好像沒有回答到這個問題！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我想財政部作為大股東，它有它的公共利益在啦，對於公股銀行要執行所謂公共的政策，有公共利益在這個地方。"],["林委員楚茵：對，所以本席提醒你，在寫報告的時候或是金管會在做金融監理的時候，這個部分我希望你們要釐清清楚，不然報告交上來到最後會變成是一種各說各話的方式。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["林委員楚茵：接下來本席要關注的這個問題是，這兩天大家也都在講說選舉剩下不到40天了，那麼到底有哪些所謂外界、外部勢力介選的部分？中國介選是不是出了新招？而且這個新招不只是過去我們看到的影響，可能是旅遊，甚至連虛擬貨幣都成為介入的漏洞。","主委，我想跟您請問一下，我們都知道現在虛擬平臺會有一個所謂的指導原則，就是我講的內部控制以及這個機構的備查，金管會目前跟金融機構之間如果出現了大量的虛擬貨幣進入帳戶當中，會有所謂的通報機制嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前應該銀行端沒有特別針對虛擬貨幣，傳統銀行體系對虛擬貨幣是沒有特別介入的，現在只有在平臺上接受投資人下單去投資。"],["林委員楚茵：我們知道其實如果以洗錢防制法來講的話，只要在銀行端，我們有所謂的法定貨幣，包括這些貨幣有大額進出的時候會通報，但是現在如果虛擬貨幣在平臺當中有異常大筆交易出現的時候，因為它沒有變現成法定貨幣，顯然它就變成了一個通報上面的漏洞，媒體報導的質疑是有可能存在卻無法監理，是這樣嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：不過它們要成為我們的這個……都要簽防制洗錢的聲明書，在交易過程中都要做好防制洗錢的工作。"],["林委員楚茵：所以它們現在是屬於一種自律的狀態，但是包括金管會的檢察局或相關單位其實無法直接去瞭解，又或者是說，必須要有檢調單位瞭解它已經變成是一個備查或是調查中的案件才會被曝光嗎？主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，防制洗錢法是責成金管會作為虛擬資產，比如投資這部分的主管機關，所以它們如果違法就違反洗錢防制法，不是說無法可管。"],["林委員楚茵：局長，你可以補充，沒有關係。"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，其實剛剛委員關心的不管是大額通報或者是可疑交易的通報，目前VASP也就是虛擬資產的這個平臺都要適用。"],["林委員楚茵：是，以目前現階段來講，它雖然適用，但這應該是指在交易的過程當中，那它並沒有，它只是從A匯到B、B匯到C，它只是在這樣的流轉，但是都在交易平臺當中的時候，我們會發現它產生大額交易嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，因為大額部分的話，基本上是現金，所以現在依我們的瞭解、實務上的瞭解，還是會有一些平臺會收現金、現金的法幣，那如果它有這樣子行為的時候，它還是要做大額通報；然後另外一個就是可疑交易的移轉，因為可疑交易其實是沒有金額門檻的，所以如果一旦是發現可疑交易，就像剛剛委員說的，從A的錢包到B的錢包，不管怎麼樣只要覺得符合可疑的樣態，照理說VASP都應該要做申報。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為現在就是，我們在洗錢防制法當中有一個金額的限制就是臺幣50萬，它就必須要申報或是要被呈現出來，但是虛擬貨幣當中，因為它並沒有現在這樣的一個數額，所以也可能是平臺自己來做規定，包括我們現在就沒有規定到剛剛我們所提的，所謂什麼樣算大額、等同於臺幣多少，可能連這些規定跟規範都相對的模糊，變成只是平臺業者用自律的方式來處理，那麼這就會變成好像我們認為有在管理，但其實它依舊是有漏洞。","我建議金管會在這個部分，當然選舉只剩下不到40天了，在這樣的過程當中也有媒體提出了這樣的質疑，而且我們也認為在經過瞭解之後，它確實有可能成為介選的管道，甚至它有可能是賄選的一個管道的時候，建議金管會是不是要跟相關單位把這樣的標準或者是指導原則列得更清楚？主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，我們照委員的指示處理。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。今日登記發言的委員均已詢答完畢，現在處理臨時提案1案，請議事人員宣讀。","臨時提案2023-12-06","台灣洗錢防制法於2021年正式將虛擬通貨平台以及交易業務事業納入洗錢防制範疇，然而觀察現行《虛擬通貨平台及交易業務事業防制洗錢及打擊資恐辦法》，僅於第11條針對法定貨幣之現金交易金額要求各交易平台向法務部調查局申報。","準此，對帳戶間以虛擬貨幣形式流通之情形缺乏法規訂定申報標準。倘任由各交易平台自律訂定規範恐造成洗錢防制之缺漏，爰要求金融管理監督委員會研議，就虛擬貨幣間之交易形式訂定洗錢防制及大額通報標準，並於兩個月內提交書面報告。","提案人：林楚茵　　郭國文　　鍾佳濱"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148887","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148887","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3e28ce9a02e8b472866b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322a3b2363ea2ed9ac65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張其祿","委員發言時間":"10:44:41 - 10:51:40","影片長度":"00:06:59","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":419,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:51:40+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:44:41+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":680,"blocks":[["張委員其祿：（10時44分）謝謝召委，有請黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["張委員其祿：主委好。主委，今天的專報主要是談IFRS跟ICS的問題，國際的接軌當然是至關重要，而且之前我們也歷經產壽險在疫情中的問題，而現在有新的會計準則制度。今天我也看了我們的準備面，不管是未來要成立專案平臺，或是逐年要求業者進行評估，或是預留準備金、盈餘公積金來因應，當然有政府要協助的部分，但我們比較關切的是業者在過程中的接軌，甚至在盤點時，如果它真的做不到或是有問題，這個就是我們公共政策提到的在執行中的評估，是這樣的觀念。因為金管會最重要的還是監管他們到底有沒有到位，所以監管的強度、力度，也包括如果他們真的做不到，剛才曾總召也提到，到時要是沒辦法到位的話，到底有沒有比較好的方法來監督這些業者，如果它真的做不到的話要怎麼辦？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個接軌是我們為了符合國際的資本或會計的規定所做的決定，做這個決定一定都有國情的考慮，所以有在地化措施跟過渡化措施，我屢次在外報告，接軌不是讓大家過不了關，而是在合理的範圍之內，也努力了、也符合國際的標準，所以我們會提供合理的配套措施、過渡措施，讓業者能夠漸進式的接軌。"],["張委員其祿：我覺得這個其實也要讓業者更早能夠清楚知道，甚至過渡期間的準備，我們也不能不教而殺，當然準則已經很清楚了，坦白說業者其實應該要儘速達標才行。"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，跟委員報告，這些都是跟公會、跟不同類型的業者充分溝通後，他們覺得對他們來講可以做得到，我們才這樣去做配套的安排。"],["張委員其祿：好，謝謝主委。主委，我今天還有另外一個題目，是跟教育有關的，因為我現在在教文委員會，有關無卡詐騙、簽約拿佣金等等，就是校園的詐騙其實也越來越嚴重，甚至有時學生自己是受害者，但他也變加害者，反正這個部分的問題很多。我要問的問題是有關財金素養的部分，雖然教育部一直在推財金素養，但我必須直說，教育部自己就不見得很有財金素養，官員對這些方向的瞭解，因為他們是管全部，所以這個部分的專業他們其實真的不足。你看，像這種調查就會發現反而還逐年下降，沒有像我們想像得這麼好，雖然現在金融理財是很重要的一件事，而且國人都很在乎，但反而在教育端這邊是越來越差。主委也很清楚，現在金融的商品又越來越多，樣態也不一樣，我隨便舉一個例子，比如說先買後付等等這些越來越多。我是想說，其實教育端那邊是跟不太上的。接著往下看，其實很多這種調查也都講得很清楚，教的管道不見得很好、內容不符實用、教的方式蜻蜓點水。","所以我最後的問題是，主委，金管會在這個部分是最專業的，您覺得對於學校端的教育，我們要如何協力他們、幫他們一把？因為專業在你們這邊，雖然他們口口聲聲要求在教育端要提高金融素養，但就是提不太動，所以您是否也覺得要導入得更清楚一點？包括深度、廣度。像日本所有的高校是把金融教育義務化，認為這個至關重要，且對於人生而言，這是他一輩子都用得到、很棒的事。有關這個部分，主委怎麼看呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我一直在過去這十幾年來都說，金融教育是人生實現臺灣夢的roadmap、是地圖，所以這就是一個基本的素養，有了這個金融教育才能對我們的人生不同階段去做好的規劃，所以我們一直在強調，包括我們跟各部會、跟教育部都有合作，他們需要什麼樣金融教育的主題，我們都主動安排金融機構配合去做處理。","但是委員，我想有一點，其實我前兩天也去大學講這個題目，因為現在同學吸收資訊都從網路上……"],["張委員其祿：這都不……"],["黃主任委員天牧：所以有一個叫做同溫層效應echo chamber，就是迴音室，你吸收的資訊都是同一類人的想法，外面的人給他的知識不見得會改變他的行為跟決策，所以才會有行為財務學、行為經濟學等學門的產生，這個我們要努力。"],["張委員其祿：甚至有時候這種同溫層的效應不見得是好的，因為有時候反而是一些錯誤的訊息……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是強化效果！"],["張委員其祿：對，一種錯誤的或者一窩蜂的，之前很多時候被割韭菜的、玩什麼當沖等等的，這些其實都很多問題，所以有時候我覺得要更正確一點、更紮實一點，甚至這種風險的評估要讓他們更清楚，我覺得這個……"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我們會照委員的指示去努力，我們上禮拜開金融教育的會議也是朝這個方向去努力。"],["張委員其祿：就是希望金管會在教育端，我們直說好了，教育部真的有時候無能為力，甚至有時候它的限制很多，反而希望我們這邊各位同仁把那個專業真的多給他們一些，甚至告訴他們怎麼做才是正確的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["張委員其祿：好，謝謝主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員、謝謝您。"],["張委員其祿：您辛苦了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接著請林楚茵委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148886","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148886","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3b971e63986742f746208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03229241ffbcb2007b955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:38:57 - 10:50:42","影片長度":"00:11:45","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":705,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:50:42+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:38:57+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":623,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時38分）謝謝召委，請部長。"],["主席：有請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長早安。部長，這邊來請教，不久之前我們教育產業工會表示有發現校園公共意外責任險的投保金額有縮水，而且意外發生之後又因為校方不願意承認校園設施或管理有瑕疵，導致保險公司不願意理賠，它會用一個理由說非學校設施設置管理欠缺這個部分不是他們承保的範圍，導致如果師生有意外的發生是沒有辦法得到保險公司的理賠，部長，你們有沒有掌握到這樣的狀況？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，確實目前國教署每年都有編列這樣的經費去做有關學校公共意外責任險的投保事項，對於這一方面的相關內容，因為他們所講的個別的這個一定要個案去了解，因為它本來就是屬於在公共保險，在學校……"],["陳委員秀寳：每個意外發生都是個案啊！"],["潘部長文忠：所以我說它講的那個事情我們應該去做了解，以目前國教署在年度的檢討會議裡面，也會將他們所講的這個相關內容能夠納進來做這些……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以部長您是有了解到這個狀況？"],["潘部長文忠：就是有請他們把這方面，因為他們……"],["陳委員秀寳：因為教育部像部長您說的，每年都有編列保險預算協助學校投保公共意外責任險，就是為了讓我們學校的師生有保障，萬一有什麼意外發生的時候，但實際上發生校園意外在保險上它不是認定從寬，它就是有這樣子的理由，就擺明地就說這個不在我們承保的範圍，因為校方既然不承認是你們的疏失。但是以校方來講，校方承認是設置設施有問題或是管理問題不當的話，其實他們還會面臨到公務人員懲戒的部分，所以有時候會因為校方保護自己，它沒有辦法去承認說是我們校方有疏失，保險公司又因為這樣的理由不理賠，其實教育部的美意就付諸流水了。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，委員，這個部分我想剛才我講個案的意思也是要特別提醒這一段，如果學校方因為擔心有行政責任，環境設施造成危害而不願意去面對，而影響到師生可能受影響的這部分，我想這部分我們一定要跟……尤其是地方政府必須要嚴正地去做這方面的督導，因為到底是怎麼造成傷害，這個其實是一個客觀的事實，而不應該只是說哪一方為了擔心有責任的問題，結果讓受傷的這一端沒辦法去做，這個就完全失掉當時保險的目標、目的了嘛！所以我想為什麼會跟委員剛才報告的那個情形是要個案地去做這方面，我們會去加強督導。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，從您的回答應該就是說你們大概也了解這個狀況，這個部分我希望教育部你們這邊去了解一下這2年來關於校園意外的發生跟理賠的狀況怎麼樣，你們去評估是不是有必要去調整你們相關的規定，你2個月之內給一個報告。"],["潘部長文忠：好，我想這部分委員我們再來盤一下，也會蒐集一下，因為有時候像一些團體他們在第一線會看到一些現象，我想這部分我們也會希望把意見蒐集過來。"],["陳委員秀寳：你們再了解一下。"],["潘部長文忠：因為保險就是希望維護師生萬一受到這些意外……"],["陳委員秀寳：對啊！那你投保了之後就用這種理由來拒絕理賠的話，其實師生的權益沒有得到保障。"],["潘部長文忠：了解。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝部長。我請署長。"],["主席：署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：署長，今天其實每個委員都在關心這件事情，就是我們電競協會的爭議，在頒獎典禮發生這樣的爭議，因為頒獎的嘉賓竟然是一位一審已經是判4年2個月，二審都維持原判的這樣子的一個很嚴重的刑責的人士來擔任頒獎的貴賓，當然體育署在事後有發出聲明表示說這個活動你們沒有提供補助，也沒有參與活動的規劃，也沒有同意要擔任指導單位，簡單來說體育署就是認為你們沒有補助這個活動，也沒有參與這個活動的規劃，所以這個事件跟體育署沒有關係。但是其實這邊要提醒體育署，電競協會官網上就有明確標示說電競協會是體育署唯一指定電競事務委辦的單位，所以體育署你們本來就對這些運動協會有監督之責，每年體育署你們有編列預算來補助這些協會，所以在協會的相關評鑑，你們也是很有機會來進行相關的監督，那你們在聲明中有提到說會加強輔導該協會，你們目前預計有什麼措施？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上我們在每年都會有所謂協會的訪評，針對這次發生的事件我們列入協會訪評的依據之一，會對它明年的年度工作計畫的補助款，相信一定會有很大的影響。"],["陳委員秀寳：體育署是我們教育部的下級機關，對於毒品零容忍這個態度是不容置疑，我相信教育部體育署對這樣的態度你們是很堅決的，就是我們對毒品是零容忍的，但是是不是藉由這個機會我們來檢討，我們來制定一個準則規範一下相關活動出席人員，尤其是擔任頒獎的人員不能有爭議的狀況，選手好不容易努力了、得到這樣優勝的殊榮，應該要有一個合適的身分、合適的人來頒獎，這是尊重選手的表現。那相關機制檢討之後，我們是不是研議訂定一個準則規範，這個部分，署長你怎麼回答？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分我們贊同委員的說法，我們回去會進行這件事情，就是制定相關的準則供協會來參考。"],["陳委員秀寳：制定相關的準則，那如果萬一有這樣子不好的、對我們整個政策相悖離的事件發生的時候，除了監督他之外，我們還有什麼規範可以來約束他們？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們最主要的部分大概是補助款的遞減，當然還有一個更重要的是，我們可以將它暫時停權，這部分我們都會進行研議。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為對於這樣一個相當離譜的錯誤，我們其實應該給他們嚴厲的譴責跟懲罰，有時候不管他是用一個怎樣的效果在呈現，但是這其實是在挑戰你們體育署。好，這個部分我請你們研議相關的規範，也要一個進度給本席辦公室。","接下來我要關心的是，關於今天我們要審的體育黃牛票的部分，大家都非常關心，上週日的亞錦賽開打，1萬7,000人入場，大家非常踴躍，對賽事大家是非常開心、很期待。那中韓大戰的票瞬間秒殺，也產生了很多黃牛亂象，球迷表示真的很想看比賽，所以不得不花兩倍的價格去買黃牛票。之前，文化部其實針對藝文票黃牛票的部分，除了制定罰則之外，也與票券業者研議票券實名制，當然以我們現在如果要落實實名制，也許在賽場的部分可能還有一些技術性待突破，除了這些罰則之外，體育署跟賽事業者有沒有實際去討論，剛剛講實名制，它的技術上如何克服，你們有去討論嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上這件事情針對實名制的部分，我們其實有找相關業者來談，目前我們會去輔導業者，鼓勵他們去針對售票系統本身的科技，以及在兼顧隱私的情況之下，鼓勵他們像臺韓大戰這種重要的場次能夠儘可能採取實名制，然後也讓球迷能夠儘可能快速的進場，這邊我們正在研議當中。"],["陳委員秀寳：黃牛票的罰則如果訂定之後，體育署要如何落實也是必須要事先規劃。文化部這邊有個作法，在查緝黃牛票的部分，它跟警政署跨部會合作成立專案打牛小組，在文化部的網站設置一個檢舉黃牛票區讓民眾來檢舉，如果認定是符合要件的案件，會分案到地方政府進行後續的裁罰。體育署在黃牛票查緝執行的部分，你們會不會參考文化部的作法？為了減少行政資源的浪費，請體育署也可以一起加入這個專案打牛小組，這個部分你們有沒有什麼新的規劃，還是也可以參考這樣做？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們基本上會參考文化部的作法一起來做這件事情，當然也會跟各縣市政府的檢警調一起攜手，能夠來落實執行的部分。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為其實黃牛票這麼猖獗，讓真正想要參與賽事、想要參加的民眾搶不到票，然後必須花費更多的資源去想辦法得到這張票，對真正要參與的民眾是非常不公平的。所以不管在藝文表演、不管是賽事，我們都希望黃牛票罰則訂了之後是可以落實的，這個部分署長您也說會參考文化部的作法，我們也希望能夠把這個法修得更完善，能夠保護民眾的權益。","主席再給我1分鐘。接下來要請教就是，2024的巴黎奧運即將到來，體育署在今年4月的時候也到巴黎實地考察，以評估相關後勤工作的規劃，這個部分我想瞭解這些隨隊人員裡面，你們這次有沒有配置隨隊運動心理師？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們這次會有運動心理諮商相關人員的配置，如果代表團進不去，我們也會在中繼站的部分列入工作團，這部分會儘可能讓有跟我們取得奧運資格選手相關的這些心理諮商人員都能夠過去巴黎。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為在這樣高壓的環境之下，我們的選手可能隨時處在比較緊繃的情緒，所以這次需要這些隨隊人員來協助我們的選手。另外，我要提醒體育署，因為國際的情勢一直在變動，巴黎奧運開幕的時候可能有恐攻的狀況發生，到明年奧運期間有沒有這樣的情勢，這個部分也請體育署要注意，要制定相關緊急應變措施，萬一有什麼緊急事件發生的時候，讓我們的選手可以再根據這些我們教導他們的部分來做安全的維護，這個部分再請你們注意。"],["鄭署長世忠：謝謝委員。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝。"],["主席：時間到了，後續再跟陳秀寳委員回復，謝謝部長、署長，謝謝陳秀寳委員的質詢。","我們休息5分鐘，5分鐘後繼續開會。","休息（10時50分）","繼續開會（10時56分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會，現在請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148885","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148885","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3a39fae2cb4925c7166b70907318610e7c986728e607a032250715d464a77325c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"曾銘宗","委員發言時間":"10:33:25 - 10:44:29","影片長度":"00:11:04","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":664,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:44:29+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:33:25+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":602,"blocks":[["曾委員銘宗：（10時33分）謝謝召委，請主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：總召早。"],["曾委員銘宗：主委早。幾件事情跟主委討教，第一個，我看到你今天的書面報告，我有仔細看，其中提到115年我國保險公司要接軌IFRS 17及ICS，這是既定的政策，已經確定了，是不是？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["曾委員銘宗：整體來看，保險公司要增加多少資本？"],["黃主任委員天牧：現在很難講，因為我們已經給了配套措施和誘因，其實基本上在過渡期間、到2026年期間是有限的，我請局長報告一下。"],["施局長瓊華：我們現在給了過渡期間是15年，所以它可以在這15年內分次透過業務的努力，加上增資來解決這個事情，所以現在並沒有一個確定的數字。"],["曾委員銘宗：局長和主委答得非常好，既然這是既定政策，我相信你們一定評估過，不管過渡多少年，我的問題是最低要增加多少資本？中等的情況要增加多少資本？最高要增加多少資本？你總要有這樣的預估，不然你不可能做決策，過渡多久我尊重，但是你總要有預估，這兩個重要政策接軌之後，整個保險業最低要增加多少資本？中等的情況或最高的情況要增加多少資本額？這個預估要有，你做決策不可能沒有！"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，你是指導我們的，我們其實不是不願意講，而是現在真的沒辦法算，比方IFRS 17的部分，保單價值準備金的部分還有一部分在討論，那個部分因為升息的關係對業者是有利的，所以這部分是變動的。"],["曾委員銘宗：我也知道有些有利、有些不利，但是你們做了綜合考量之後，總要有一個保險業最低要增加多少資本，中等的情況保險業要增加多少資本？最嚴格的情況底下，保險業要增加多少成本？你不能跟我講不知道或是還沒有算清楚。假設不知道或者沒有算清楚，那麼我對這樣的既定政策是持保留態度，主委，不好意思！因為你沒有做好相關的政策評估。"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我們給的所有配套措施都是根據保險公司精算、試算過之後給的措施，就是為了讓它不要有那麼大的增資金額，能夠平穩地去過渡。"],["曾委員銘宗：沒有錯！主委，你直接給我答案了，你給這些保險公司精算過了……"],["黃主任委員天牧：它自己算的。"],["曾委員銘宗：它精算過了，當然是它自己算的，至於正不正確是另外一件事情，既然它已經算出來了，整個保險業會增加多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：第一個，個別公司我不知道……"],["曾委員銘宗：我不講個別，我講的是全部，壽險公司總共幾家？"],["黃主任委員天牧：21家。"],["曾委員銘宗：對，總數有21家。產險不用，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：產險也沒有這個問題，壽險部分其實中小型和外商也沒有這個問題。"],["曾委員銘宗：主委，給我一個答案，有沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我就講一個數字好了，以前很多委員說你們要上兆的增資，那個都不可能的。"],["曾委員銘宗：大約是多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個真的很難算。"],["曾委員銘宗：主委，真的不好意思！"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒關係，您指正。"],["曾委員銘宗：尤其是壽險公司做每一件事情都要精算，假設連這個都沒有精算怎麼去推動這個既定政策？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個是算過了，所以我們給它一個配套措施。"],["曾委員銘宗：我相信一定算過，沒有算過這個既定政策怎麼作成決策？假設在最低標準的情況底下，會有幾家保險公司沒辦法達成？萬一沒辦法達成怎麼樣處理？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前來講應該都是循序漸進的，請局長說明一下。"],["施局長瓊華：我們現在還是讓它自己在15年內提計畫，它要依照目標來達成，如果在15年內它的ICS還是不符合規定的話，我們會依照保險法規定來做處置。"],["曾委員銘宗：因為我相信15年後大家幾乎都不在這裡了，就像訂定2050淨零排放的目標一樣，當時也是在這裡審法案，我們要求訂定2050淨零排放的初期、中期目標，它都不訂，我那時候就講了，我相信2050很多人都不在立法院了。","另外請教主委，政府打擊詐騙，尤其投資詐騙越打越多，為什麼民營銀行防止詐騙帳戶數的績效比較好？公股銀行比較差？"],["黃主任委員天牧：第一個，民營銀行的開戶數也多，另外一方面，他們可能在科技防詐上面也做得比較多，公股銀行也有……"],["曾委員銘宗：主委，我要糾正你，這些公股行庫的帳戶數比較多，不會是民間銀行。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我知道。"],["曾委員銘宗：像彰銀、合庫的帳戶數都非常高，依照統計，他們的帳戶數絕對比民間銀行多很多，既然多很多，公股銀行更有企業社會責任去防止詐騙，為什麼公股銀行防止詐騙的績效太差？主委，要不要請它加強一下？"],["黃主任委員天牧：統計數字上面也不完全，有的公股銀行表現也超越民營。"],["曾委員銘宗：絕大部分都是民間銀行在前面，為什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個原因……"],["曾委員銘宗：不認真！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想公股本身應該都是很嚴謹的，也不是說不認真。"],["曾委員銘宗：為什麼績效差呢？沒關係，過兩天會審預算，朝野會協商預算，我們來找財政部說明。","另外，金管會的金融法規，公股銀行或財政部要不要一體適用？"],["黃主任委員天牧：絕大多數要，但有少部分排除公股。"],["曾委員銘宗：為什麼？哪些排除？"],["莊局長琇媛：有一些合併的案子，股權的部分會排除，可是絕大部分是要符合一般監理的法規。"],["曾委員銘宗：好。","接下來的問題是，最近金管會對民營的金控或銀行大老闆不當干預，已經有四家做處分停職，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有的沒有停職。"],["曾委員銘宗：好，這個我非常支持。這個部分假設財政部不當干預金控跟銀行的決策，金管會要不要查、要不要處罰？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告總召，因為財政部是大股東，它也知道大股東對公股銀行的政策是會基於股東的立場去做要求的，這個部分我們就另案處理，跟一般民營是不一樣的。"],["曾委員銘宗：所以你回答了問題，你說大股東不當干預，民間銀行適用的這些法規不適用財政部哦！對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這部分是有排除，剛才局長有跟您報告，財政部是……"],["曾委員銘宗：你排除在哪裡？這個哪有排除？"],["黃主任委員天牧：公司治理守則在這方面都有做一些排除。"],["曾委員銘宗：財政部就不用遵守公司治理？主委，你的公司治理只適用民營銀行啊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有，它也有，但有些部分如果是財政部基於國家政策，它需要對公股銀行做一些政策指導，這部分是沒有在這裡面的。"],["曾委員銘宗：所以金管會很多的金融監理法規是不適用於財政部哦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有很多，就是類似這種股權的……"],["曾委員銘宗：可以這樣子嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：當然儘量不要，但因為這是國內金融業的生態，我們的公股……"],["曾委員銘宗：金管會管不了財政部大股東啊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：財政部也算是政府的部會之一，它對公股的管理有它的職責。"],["曾委員銘宗：好。我有兩個事情，你查清楚後給我報告，第一個，財政部最近要求公股銀行拍攝詐騙廣告，這個事財政部的手可以伸進去嗎？這個部分你去查，必要時派檢查局去查，查完給我報告，這是第一個。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好。"],["曾委員銘宗：第二個，選舉到了，財政部都會要求公股銀行進行政策性護盤，能不能派人去檢查？"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。這個護盤可能不是我們，一般也很少去檢查。"],["曾委員銘宗：它是公股的投資部會，怎麼不能查？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們去瞭解一下。"],["曾委員銘宗：主委，這兩件事情我很堅持。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好。"],["曾委員銘宗：召委，你要怎麼處理？"],["主席：我們等到協商的時候再來做決策。"],["曾委員銘宗：好，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝總召。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接下來請張其祿委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148884","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148884","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da39351b3a4f197e36b6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03221334812ddcf640b85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭麗文","委員發言時間":"10:27:07 - 10:38:51","影片長度":"00:11:44","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":704,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:38:51+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:27:07+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":555,"blocks":[["鄭委員麗文：（10時27分）謝謝主席，請部長跟署長。"],["主席：有請部長還有署長。"],["潘部長文忠：召委好。"],["鄭委員麗文：好。發生了Toyz跟統神、電競協會找販毒的人來頒獎的事情，引起社會非常嚴重的軒然大波，我看到教育部體育署第一時間當然是儘速地切割，表示這個是他們根本沒有經過他們的同意掛名的；第二個，體育署也沒有補助這個活動，所以換句話說，這個活動整個舉辦的過程你們並不知情，問題是現在網路上已經炸鍋了，這是一個態度的問題。","我們看到上一次也曾經因為0到6歲一起養的影片，我們也在這邊關切過，當時也是影片內容不宜，網路炸鍋，我們看到教育部下架，最後部長也道歉了。今天針對這件事情，統神也怒嗆了，說居然找一個販毒的來頒獎，全網炸鍋，就這件事情雖然體育署已經表達了嚴正的立場，也已經切割、說明，但我第一個想先請教部長跟署長，你們覺得這件事情需不需要向社會大眾來道歉呢？請教部長。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這個事情確實我們並不瞭解，也沒有參與任何的規劃。就我所瞭解到訊息，主辦單位在第一時間確實也公開地跟國人、也包含跟體育署，因為本來就沒有徵得體育署的同意……"],["鄭委員麗文：對，我看到報導說是體育署要求他們要道歉嘛。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有吧，它……"],["鄭委員麗文：部長，您覺得體育署署長要不要為這件事情道歉呢？"],["潘部長文忠：召委，我要報告的是，我為什麼在0到6歲國家一起養那個影片二話不說……"],["鄭委員麗文：為什麼有道歉？"],["潘部長文忠：因為那是我們自己辦理、自己規劃都做得……"],["鄭委員麗文：你們也是發包給家長協會呀！"],["潘部長文忠：不是，這個不是切割啦，我要講這兩件事情……"],["鄭委員麗文：的差別是什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：0到6歲國家養那個影片，教育部是主辦的單位，只是找專業的這些……"],["鄭委員麗文：那這一次？"],["潘部長文忠：這個完全是民間的運動協會，它自主規劃，也沒有……"],["鄭委員麗文：所以部長，您覺得署長也不需要道歉？"],["潘部長文忠：不是，委員，這個我們應該表達的是……"],["鄭委員麗文：好，部長，是這樣……"],["潘部長文忠：但是我要表達一件很清楚的事就是說……"],["鄭委員麗文：是，請說。"],["潘部長文忠：因為電競已經列為體育競技的這件事情，這個是國人關注的……"],["鄭委員麗文：這個我都知道，部長，你不需要再重複了，我瞭解您的態度。"],["潘部長文忠：對，這是重要的，我們也表達了，這個絕對是非常……"],["鄭委員麗文：是，我瞭解您的態度，所以我接下來想要瞭解的是，當你們發生這樣非常離譜、很扯、很瞎的事情的時候，除了第一時間做危機處理、做切割，會不會覺得自己很倒楣，還是會不會覺得自己很生氣呢？我想要請問一下署長，發生這種事情，你們的感受是什麼？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實我們在第一時間的時候有聯繫電競協會去瞭解狀況，在第一時間我的確也對秘書長表達非常地不滿，第一個，他怎麼會找一個不恰當的人來做頒獎？所以我們在對外說明的第一件事情就是向外宣稱，我們教育部、體育署跟運動競技絕對不能跟毒品畫上等號……"],["鄭委員麗文：好，所以很生氣有兩個原因，第一個，絕對不可以讓毒品來染黑了一個大家認為應該要支持的活動；第二個，居然還把你們一起拖下水，跟你們無關的事情，還讓你們掛名，我想主要是因為這兩個原因。我不知道署長跟部長這兩天有沒有上網去看，在生氣之餘，有沒有瞭解整個事情發生的過程？我先請教署長好了，你覺得是不是主辦單位故意的呢？主辦單位請Toyz來，它不可能不知道他有販毒的前科，它為什麼還特別請他來呢？所以針對這件事情我想先請教署長，你認為是一個嚴重的疏失，還是它根本是故意請他來的呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我在第一時間去詢問電競協會，基本上他們的態度就是他們覺得他們做錯了，所以也沒有什麼需要辯解的，的確不應該……"],["鄭委員麗文：不是他們也做錯了，是他們為什麼做這件事？"],["鄭署長世忠：他們一開始可能覺得……"],["鄭委員麗文：你覺得他們是故意的嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：我覺得他們或許啦，因為對他們整個活動或許是一個話題，但是我在第一時間就告訴他們這絕對不允許！"],["鄭委員麗文：好。因為這件事情，統神爆炸了，你看到媒體的報導，他說當時他到現場的時候，工作人員有問他如果Toyz到現場，他會不會生氣？換句話說，主辦單位是有意識到這件事情，而不是沒有意識到這件事情的，所以統神還講說：「反正干我什麼事啊！」對不對？所以他並沒有表示，可是他說他後來看到要頒獎給他的人居然是Toyz的時候，他的第一個反應就是原來主辦單位要製造一個大家想要看到的效果，因為他們過去有過節，是宿敵嘛！所以你看他第一個反應是說：原來這個是主辦單位set好的，要看到他們的效果。然後，您知不知道這件事情在網路上的流量有多少？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上我在發生事情當晚就已經去電，我也告訴理事長這個一定會……"],["鄭委員麗文：這件事情的流量高達……你看頒獎典禮的觀看人次現在已經高達24萬，統神的直播26萬，Toyz的直播高達48萬。而且最扯的是，他們居然還請他們帶小孩來，請統神他太太帶小朋友來，說這是非常適合闔家一起來參與的，是不是連這個都是事先set好的呢？所以他的太太才會當場非常地憤怒，拿著東西、帶著小孩轉頭就走。而且他本來沒有想要帶小孩來的耶！是主辦單位鼓勵他帶小孩來參加，參加什麼？參加一個販毒的人跟他的父親有過節，當場在臺上做這樣的演出，你覺得這個適合小孩子到現場嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：非常不適合。"],["鄭委員麗文：所以這就是為什麼統神全家會高度憤怒的原因嘛！如果它是故意的、set好的，為了我剛剛說的那樣的流量，主辦單位已經達到它的目的了……"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這個目的是不對的。"],["鄭委員麗文：因為沒有比這個更好的宣傳，連你們都被拖下水，連你們都當了臨時演員，連你們都當了墊背的。所以剛剛很多委員就提到了，你們從107年到112年年年補助，甚至於112年度還補助高達將近300萬。署長，如果這個連你都覺得它可能是事先set好的，不排除這個可能性，第一個、我覺得你們應該去調查，要求主辦單位澈底說明為什麼安排這件事情，出自於什麼樣的動機？就是為了衝流量set好，還叫人家家屬帶著孩子來，如果您覺得跟我們所有的家長、所有的國人，包括本席一樣，覺得這個太離譜、太over了，這恐怕不是你們說跟你們無關，要求他們道歉就可以了，如果是主辦單位為了衝流量刻意set好，做這麼惡劣的事情，那你們應該要採取一定的懲罰性作用吧！你應該要求主辦單位，第一個、是不是應該撤換他們負責的工作人員呢？是不是應該對他們的負責人作出一定的懲處呢？還有，你們未來、下個年度的補助難道不需要做一定的修改跟改變嗎？這件事情，署長……"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這個我們再研議了啦！"],["鄭委員麗文：當然不可能是因為他們一個道歉，然後你們一個切割就結束落幕了嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：不會這樣……"],["鄭委員麗文：你懂嗎？因為你這樣子，它道歉值幾個錢啊？它早就想好了，對它來講道歉一點都不困難，這整個set 好的衝了這樣子的流量，這種惡劣的行徑，署長，你現在冷靜想想，連你們都被玩進去了，連你們都被當冤大頭了，不採取行動絕對會有下一次，加起來幾乎接近百萬的流量對他們來講就是最好的鼓勵，這種風氣一定不可以助長，所以請署長回答，那你們採取什麼樣具體的行為呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：首先先報告委員，我們之所以這幾年會將它的補助金額提高是因為……"],["鄭委員麗文：我沒有問你為什麼提高，為什麼提高你不用再講了，你現在告訴我你們接下來的作為是什麼就好了。"],["鄭署長世忠：是因為亞運的關係，接下來基本上我們會針對它的活動做一個檢討，基本上我們補助的立場都是在選手的培訓為主，所以我們並不是補助它的任何活動，完全是在選手的培訓。"],["鄭委員麗文：不是，你還是沒有回答我的問題，第一個、你們是不是要求主辦單位提供你們完整的說明報告？沒有說明、沒有報告就這樣子混過去了嗎？第一個是不是應該要求他們提供你們完整的說明報告呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：這個我們會去要求的。"],["鄭委員麗文：你們是不是應該主動調查這件事情到底是誰的主意、誰在負責，為什麼會搞出這麼大的一個這麼離譜的戲來呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：這部分我贊同委員的說法，我們會去進行。"],["鄭委員麗文：第二個、是不是要求他們內部也要作出他們的檢討跟具體懲處的作為？"],["鄭署長世忠：這個我們已經有去告知，然後它也在進行當中。"],["鄭委員麗文：好，所以他們會有具體的懲處作為出來？"],["鄭署長世忠：我希望他們會有這樣子的……"],["鄭委員麗文：你要要求啊！它如果不照做你們就不補助嘛！不然你們不是被人家當作凱子？"],["鄭署長世忠：但是報告委員，我們還是以選手為主啦，我們不是要去補助協會的運作，我們是以選手的培訓經費。"],["鄭委員麗文：所以你們完全沒有任何的武器，你們只能道德勸說？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們還是會要求啦！"],["鄭委員麗文：你現在給我的意思就是說你們只能道德勸說，它不鳥你，你們也沒有辦法，補助還是要照常？那只有電競協會，只有他們一個人可以鼓勵臺灣的電競活動，沒有第二個組織、沒有任何人可以取代了？"],["主席：已經超過時間了。"],["鄭委員麗文：所以你們完全被他們捏在手裡面，所以它早就算好了，所以他們吃定你們了，是這樣嗎？"],["主席：時間已經到了，兩位。"],["鄭署長世忠：並不是的。"],["鄭委員麗文：不是這樣是什麼？對不對？全臺灣都在關注啊！你們要拿出辦法，你們不能被人軟土深掘、被人「吃人夠夠」，你們會變成笑話。"],["主席：鄭委員，時間到了，請尊重主席。謝謝，部長請回、署長請回，謝謝鄭麗文委員的質詢。","再來我們請陳秀寳委員，陳秀寳委員質詢完後我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148883","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148883","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da30f8eb59b17fcab1866b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322d1e703fc5f35cbd05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"費鴻泰","委員發言時間":"10:20:37 - 10:32:40","影片長度":"00:12:03","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":723,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:32:40+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:20:37+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":483,"blocks":[["費委員鴻泰：（10時20分）謝謝主席。各位女士、先生，大家早安。主席幫我請一下黃主委。"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：召委早。"],["費委員鴻泰：主委好。有關防疫險現在是不是全部都理賠完畢了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大部分都完成、都解決了。"],["費委員鴻泰：是，都解決了喔！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：這次的理賠大概總共賠了多少金額？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大概2,700億左右。"],["費委員鴻泰：2,700億，跟幾年前我的評估差不多，這個防疫險到現在差不多告一段落了，當然大股東口袋裡拿錢或者跟銀行去融資，大概都到位了，當然也有幾個事情日後我們可以拿來做檢討。第一個，有一家產險公司叫新安東，這家也增資了，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：先減資再增資，原來新安東的管理階層是我們中華民國的人士，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：現在呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好像董事長換成……"],["施局長瓊華：現在股權比較高的是東京海上集團。"],["費委員鴻泰：現在換成日本人的，這個是對臺灣的一個損失。第二個，我們這些保險從業人員的薪資這三年下來有沒有減少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我不太確定。"],["費委員鴻泰：我直接告訴你，他們工會有跟我講，減少了很多，因為大股東增資或跟銀行借款都要付利息的，所以他們所有的獲利，也由於轉增資的關係，讓他們的……請問保險從業人員在臺灣有多少人？"],["黃主任委員天牧：加業務員好像是三、四十萬人，業務員很多。"],["費委員鴻泰：我所瞭解，你去問問他們看看、問問工會就知道，他們的所得減少很多，不是說沒有。還有一個問題，請教一下這些防疫險他們都有再保，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：他們再保都理賠了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前還沒有完成，請局長說明一下。"],["施局長瓊華：目前雙方還在協商當中。"],["費委員鴻泰：為什麼還在協商？"],["施局長瓊華：再保公司可能有一些見解上跟我們的保險公司不一致。"],["費委員鴻泰：什麼樣的見解有問題？"],["施局長瓊華：主要是對於他們的核保或者理賠的標準有一些討論。"],["費委員鴻泰：再保公司說這個防疫險保單的理賠是什麼狀況呢？確診、住院理賠，對不對？"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：我們臺灣是怎麼做的呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們後來因為人數很多，所以變成快篩來決定，以數位的方式處理。"],["費委員鴻泰：沒錯，就跳過了住院的階段，這就是臺灣保險公司跟再保爭執的地方，不是小事喔！我再問下面一個問題，如果再保公司不理賠，這些產險公司要怎麼處理？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們請局長跟您報告。"],["施局長瓊華：報告委員，防疫險的保單確診不是要住院才有理賠，確診就給付，只是有一部分是住院部分的給付，後來因為衛福部的條件放寬了……"],["費委員鴻泰：我剛才講再保跟臺灣的產險公司，他們的看法不一樣，是不是我剛才講的那個東西？"],["施局長瓊華：並不完全是這個問題，因為它的再保……"],["費委員鴻泰：我請教局長，問題是什麼？"],["施局長瓊華：因為再保條件是根據直接簽單的契約來約定的。"],["費委員鴻泰：我們臺灣後來做的理賠跟那個簽約的保單一樣還是不一樣呢？"],["施局長瓊華：他們現在有一些討論裡面，大概就是針對他的核保條件是不是放得太寬，或者是住院給付的部分後來因為有居家照護的部分……"],["費委員鴻泰：為什麼？當時的保單上面沒有寫得很清楚嗎？"],["施局長瓊華：保單寫確診就是理賠，所以這個部分應該不是爭議的主要原因。"],["費委員鴻泰：那主要原因是什麼？"],["施局長瓊華：只有住院給付的那一塊……"],["費委員鴻泰：局長，你慢慢說，其實工會很多人都跟我講得很清楚了，我講的工會是工人的「工」，到底出了什麼問題？以前的再保會跟我們的保險公司爭執那麼長的時間嗎？"],["施局長瓊華：有一些還是有這樣的情形啦！"],["費委員鴻泰：很少啦！很少啦！保險局，你們需要講實話，我要聽你的實話，問題到底出在哪裡？這個以後對我們的保險公司去再保會有問題，人家以後給你再保的時候會考慮，太細的部分我就不講清楚了，麻煩你們要去注意這個問題啦。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，謝謝召委。"],["費委員鴻泰：今天我鎖定的這個題目，主委，IFRS 17或ICS，你們是過渡15年，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：都是，17也是15年。"],["費委員鴻泰：美國是過渡幾年？"],["黃主任委員天牧：坦白說，美國國家大，他們有自己的制度。"],["費委員鴻泰：好，韓國是過渡10年。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：我上網去看看美國是多少年。歐盟是16年。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，歐盟16年、韓國10年。"],["費委員鴻泰：所以我們還符合國際差不多的range裡面。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：主要是臺灣的保險的高理賠保單太多了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，召委，您是專家，就是這個原因。"],["費委員鴻泰：在世界上占了很多，所以我們的國情跟別的國家國情不太一樣。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：但是我們當然希望能夠快速跟國際接軌，這樣對於我們的資本市場，人家的接受度會比較高，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：我們都準備好了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們在按部就班的準備，我們有信心。"],["費委員鴻泰：還有1年的時間，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：2026還有兩年的時間。"],["費委員鴻泰：我們是2026……"],["黃主任委員天牧：1月1號。"],["費委員鴻泰：1月1號實施嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：還有1年嘛。"],["黃主任委員天牧：今年2023。"],["費委員鴻泰：對不起，還有兩年的時間。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["費委員鴻泰：兩年的時間當然可以啦，所以我今天訂這個題目就是針對你們的輔導，也要從輔導的角度，還有他們能力的角度，我是覺得要上路一定要考量到他們的實際狀況。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：就像我剛才講的防疫險，其實這個過程裡面我沒有在怪你們，因為行政院做了很多的規定，行政院聽了衛福部很多的話，很多的黑鍋是你們揹，對不對？但是事後還是要協助他們，針對國際再保那個問題，要去幫助他們。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：否則他們拿不到那個錢，日後國際再保對他們會畫一些問號。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["費委員鴻泰：如果理賠不回來的話，他們的問題又會再度發生，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：所以我是覺得要去協助他們，從協助的角度。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["費委員鴻泰：我很快地再請教幾個問題，請問我們今年的純網保─網路保險會不會上線？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我們在研究中，可能到明年初才會對外宣布。"],["費委員鴻泰：換句話說，今年不會？"],["黃主任委員天牧：今年不會。"],["費委員鴻泰：日後樂不樂觀？"],["黃主任委員天牧：一方面我們開放保險公司異業結盟的工作，所以現在保險公司可能利用異業結盟去發展那種純網保類似的業務。"],["費委員鴻泰：它有沒有一點像純網銀？像不像？憑良心講，我們講白了，純網銀的績效是不好的，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["費委員鴻泰：這個跟你無關，純網銀的績效是不好的，純網保呢？請問有沒有人去投資純網保？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前沒有，因為我們去年開放一波，後來審查沒有通過，所以準備再去研究。"],["費委員鴻泰：我覺得不要為了績效而績效，這樣反而不好。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["費委員鴻泰：再請教主委最後一個問題，美國可能會開放虛擬貨幣ETF，臺灣有沒有什麼因應對策？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，其實國際的趨勢我們都有在掌握，當然我不敢說現在會開放，但是未來要看我們走的方向。"],["費委員鴻泰：是要等到法規健全嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：或是看到國際監理上到位之後，我覺得我們就會做處理。"],["費委員鴻泰：我們要去看看國際上的進度，再把我們臺灣的法規落實，當然比較保守穩健也可以。最後我想請教一個問題，臺灣在全世界1,000大的銀行裡面，排名前100名的有沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：100名好像沒有，臺灣銀行應該是最大的，但是好像也不到100名。"],["費委員鴻泰：答案是沒有。"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該是沒有，我們再查一下……"],["費委員鴻泰：臺灣的金融產業大概占GDP多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好像是6、7%左右。"],["費委員鴻泰：百分之六點多。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，6、7%左右。"],["費委員鴻泰：像香港及新加坡的金融業大概占GDP多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：比較高。"],["費委員鴻泰：高到什麼程度？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好像百分之十幾、二十幾的樣子。"],["費委員鴻泰：香港25%、新加坡33%，我們有太多要努力的空間，我們的金融業曾經是很大的，現在相對於電子業是小得太多了，我對金管會的各位同仁有期許，讓金融業活潑一點，讓金融業強大一點，讓金融業在臺灣的資本市場占GDP強大一點，這都是息息相關的，所以我覺得要站在輔導他們、協助他們，當然有的地方要適度放寬，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席（費委員鴻泰）：接下來請高嘉瑜委員，高嘉瑜、高嘉瑜委員不在。","請沈發惠委員發言。沈發惠委員改書面。","請曾委員銘宗發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148882","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148882","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3bd5557605a8517076208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03220ca9a1ea8bb929be5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳靜敏","委員發言時間":"10:15:06 - 10:26:58","影片長度":"00:11:52","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":712,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:26:58+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:15:06+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":514,"blocks":[["陳委員靜敏：（10時15分）謝謝主席，我想請部長和鄭署長。"],["主席：請部長及署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["陳委員靜敏：部長早安、署長早安。今天針對運發條例的審查，剛才許多委員已經提出許多垂詢，現在不論是職棒或職籃受到全國民眾的喜愛，我真的覺得好棒哦，好久沒有這種熱血感了，特別是大巨蛋開幕的時候，對於我們能夠贏韓國，更是連我們這種對運動沒有非常熱衷的人，看到這樣的結果都受到非常大的激勵和鼓舞。當然大家也會覺得好不容易有這樣子的氛圍起來了，要怎麼樣才能不辜負民眾的期待，讓大家都能夠進球場去看賽是很重要的，這是我們期待部裡面應該要拿出來的態度。","剛剛黃國書委員也提到，光是這一場大巨蛋開幕戰，我們就已經看到黃牛猖獗的問題。當然我們知道過去在文創法上面，其實我們已經做了相關修法，even已經修法，這些代購、搶票的狀況還是發生了，所以我們可能真的只能請部裡面和署長來承諾。特別是剛剛部長也提到如果今天運發條例通過了以後，能夠讓部裡更有武器來做這件事，我想教文委員會的委員一定會充分支持。只是even過去的文創法修法以後還是看到很大的問題，依據剛剛黃國書委員給的資料，只有38%的案件能夠成案，表示多數是沒有辦法成案的，表示這些檢舉的制度可能還需要再檢討。除了黃國書委員剛剛提到的部分以外，我再給部裡一個資料，在檢舉成案的案件當中，地方政府真的裁罰成功的也只有6案，也是只有高雄有成案，所以我真的要提醒教育部，是不是在相關的處罰上面可以跟高雄市政府互相討論一下？為什麼它可以確定有裁罰，而其他部分都沒有辦法成功？主要是我們也覺得這樣子的檢舉制度如果能夠讓它實際落實的話，這樣也比較不會辜負民眾對於運動賽事的期待。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員，包含剛才黃國書委員也在提醒，確實從發行之後，也看到有一些在執行面上怎麼樣可以有更好的做法，可以達到有效的遏止。針對這部分，除了今天通過這個法，我們也會跟文化部協調，還有剛才委員也提醒，有些地方政府執行的有效方法是怎麼樣做的，我想這些都是之後教育部體育署會來努力的。"],["陳委員靜敏：對啦，在這種跨部會的合作上面，既然前面已經有這樣的經驗值的時候，我們就可以避免再走冤枉路。","另外，前天發生的這件事也有很多委員關注，Toyz都已經承認他有吸毒跟販毒了，雖然教育部體育署很快速的就說你們並沒有做相關的補助，但事實上它還是把你們列為指導單位，那當然就會讓很多家長非常關心，尤其電子競技運動是以青少年為主，如果我們還讓這些人能夠大剌剌的上台頒獎，好像宣示的態度就是他曾經是hero、他犯錯了，大家都還是可以原諒他，其實這樣子的態度對家長來說是很不能夠接受的，所以這部分可能也要請部裡面再強硬一點，除了很清楚的說你們不是指導單位以外，是不是還有更強硬的措施？譬如你們雖然沒有補助這一場，可是本席的辦公室助理去請體育署調閱相關資料時，發現你們在110年補助240萬，111年也補助240萬，今年更是補助290萬。對於已經補助的金額，有沒有什麼辦法可以讓家長看到教育部對於他們這樣子的行為是很不能夠接受的？特別是它冒名將你們列為指導單位。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，我們支持體育競技，包含電競，因為它已經是亞運項目，未來都可能成為奧運項目，而且確實在今年的亞運當中，我們在電競方面也有很好的表現，我想這是我們在整個政策上……"],["陳委員靜敏：值得鼓勵啦！"],["潘部長文忠：但是教育部，包含行政院跨部會對反毒的立場也確實非常明確……"],["陳委員靜敏：一定要很明確啊！"],["潘部長文忠：而且也是嚴格在執行，所以這兩個絕對不容許有掛鉤、連結的現象……"],["陳委員靜敏：當然，這是絕對的。"],["潘部長文忠：為什麼我在第一時間就請體育署一定要說明這個情形，其實主辦單位在過程當中在第一時間也跟國人道歉，因為沒有得到體育署的同意就掛名，因此他們也跟體育署表示歉意。當然後續我會請體育署對電競協會的部分，對於電競運動選手的培訓、參與比賽，我們仍然支持，但是也會嚴格的要求，如果再有這種不適當的安排，結果造成社會的疑慮，這對於參與電競的選手而言，其實也是一個很大的負擔，同時也會造成家長更多的疑慮和擔心。"],["陳委員靜敏：我知道，但部裡可能要有一些態度，譬如這些已經補助的部分是不是應該要有一些懲罰或是怎麼樣……"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，因為目前電競在逐步發展當中，對於他們這幾年經費的增加，其實都是在做相關選手的培訓和參賽，尤其亞運今年剛剛才完成，這個才是經費增加的原因，對於……"],["陳委員靜敏：的確都是跟選拔賽這些有關的。"],["潘部長文忠：對，所以費用是用來支持這一些，這次辦的活動反而不是電競比賽，也不是什麼……"],["陳委員靜敏：是一個頒獎，我知道是一個……"],["潘部長文忠：它完全是一個表揚。"],["陳委員靜敏：我知道。"],["潘部長文忠：但我認為這確實會對社會造成疑慮，針對這部分，我會請體育署一定要非常嚴正的處理，包含對該協會的輔導和要求。我一直認為體育競賽、體育競技本身對社會而言是非常正向的，但是在相關活動的安排、人員的邀請上，這部分的態度應該是要非常謹慎。"],["陳委員靜敏：好，那我們就再請部裡……"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["陳委員靜敏：不好意思，時間不夠了。","另外，我們也知道對於選手的保護是很重要的，我想要提的是國訓中心，2019年已經發生狀況，今天李文彬執行長也有列席吧！我們發現已經有這樣的情況，當時執行長也說對於宿舍要做相關的管理，但是這兩天還是發生這樣的情況，你都已經知道有這樣的問題了，卻還讓未來的奧運選手，這麼重要、有潛力、可以為我們爭牌的選手發生這樣的事情。我們很不希望已經有培訓的選手未來發生一些問題，當然我們不會禁止男女之間的交往，但如果因為這樣而影響其他的選手，我覺得這就是一個很大的問題。對不起，時間不夠了，我可能沒辦法讓您回應，但是我強烈要求國訓中心要把剛剛所提到的宿舍管理這件事情落實，好不好？"],["李執行長文彬：是。"],["陳委員靜敏：再來我想請教國教署，教育部在108年就針對健康中心的設施及設備加以規範，這個規範就是要讓學生受傷或是需要去健康中心的時候，可以有好的照顧，但是本席辦公室就接到檢舉，我從9月開始處理這件事情，到現在家長還是對於你們處理的方式非常不滿意。現在我就讓部長看一下非常奇葩的地方，他說健康服務中心一定要有獨立的空間，但由於因故找不到校護，所以就把健康服務中心跟老師的辦公室放在一起，用塑膠隔簾隔起來，然後為了保護相關的隱私，就用這樣子的圍欄圍起來，請問學童可以有好的休息嗎？更重要的痛苦是，老師在做討論的時候，學生有辦法跟校護表達相關的問題嗎？我知道這個是地方教育局的權責，可是我透過國聯請教育部跟國教署去輔導，學校的回應是，經過了學校的討論以後，這個是最恰當的。請問署長，這個是最恰當的嗎？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告兩點，第一點，針對您所揭示的這個圖，我們會跟他再確認一下那個隔間，如果他需要這樣的話，但是我們發現另外一個委員原來告訴我們……"],["陳委員靜敏：它只有一個entrance，是不是？"],["彭署長富源：更嚴重的問題，這個問題是它移到了救護車沒有辦法去的地方，也告訴我們這個事情……"],["陳委員靜敏：是，它要經過操場耶！對，它需要經過操場！"],["彭署長富源：我們也調了圖了，花蓮縣府在昨天還有今天兩天一直在輔導，我們看結果怎麼樣，需要我們協助的部分，不管是經費或是專科教室要再改一次，我們都可以大力來協助……"],["陳委員靜敏：是呀！"],["彭署長富源：以學童的健康優先，謝謝。"],["陳委員靜敏：當然啊！而且我們已經有相關的辦法，不過最重要的是，它很大的一個理由是因為找不到校護，校護兼了很多的行政工作，我已經講了非常多次了，就是我們的校護不能夠兼行政庶務的工作，但是擺明了，它現在就告訴我們，找不到校護是因為校護沒有辦法在衛生中心裡面，所以我請部長承諾能夠讓校護的代理制度一定要落實，然後要有學校的獨立健康服務中心，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員靜敏：謝謝。"],["主席：時間到了，請部長之後再回應，謝謝，部長請回。謝謝陳靜敏委員的質詢。","再來我們請鄭麗文委員質詢。陳秀寳委員質詢完後，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148881","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148881","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da332afc19a3e4da88b66b70907318610e7c986728e607a03222a8f1cdcbb938bc05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:09:24 - 10:20:18","影片長度":"00:10:54","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":654,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:20:18+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:09:24+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":415,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時9分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士、先生。有請黃主委和銀行局莊局長。"],["主席：好，兩位請。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也請張局長一起來。主委好，兩位局長好。剛剛其他委員在關心，而昨天經濟日報頭版也說美國的商辦爆雷，國銀有四家暴險，我比較關切的是所謂的商辦。我要請教一下主委，國內的國銀不動產放款集中度開始回升，目前國銀的不動產放款大概有多少規模？"],["黃主任委員天牧：抱歉，我現在沒有這個數字。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，直接告訴你，銀行局局長知道嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，就是建築跟企業的這個大概差不多13兆左右。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有這麼多喔？"],["莊局長琇媛：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：13兆喔！"],["莊局長琇媛：對，住宅的部分是9.75兆。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，住宅是9.75兆，當然我掌握的是住宅，根據銀行法第七十二條之二規定，住宅建築及企業建築放款不得超過銀行放款時所收存款總餘額及金融債券發售額總和的30%，所以去年6月的27.19%是因為政府力行打炒房，放款餘額慢慢降低，雖然降低不到1%，但是1%就很多了，13兆多的1%是多少？一千三百多億，是不是這樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個時候又回升了，在6個月後又回升了，其中接近警戒線29%的有一家，是哪一家？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我……"],["鍾委員佳濱：特定銀行，我直接告訴你是星展，另外28%到29%的有四家，已經接近30%，是哪四家知道嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個應該知道，會後可以查核，再跟委員報告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那你們對於這些接近警戒線的銀行有沒有什麼對策？因為他們對不動產放款的集中度這麼高，已經接近到我們法律的上限，你們有什麼對策？還在想？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個定期都有報表去瞭解，如果超過就會……"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然不能超過，接近就要注意了啊！為什麼我們要關心這一題呢？近期因為升息、通膨，全球建商發生倒閉潮，日本單單上半年就破產了785家建商，瑞典前8個月公司違約有五千多家，澳洲有1,700家進入破產程序，德國439家、英國4,280家破產或申請破產，中國最嚴重，10大建商有9家跳票或破產，還好沒有跳樓，留下一堆爛尾樓，因為升息，資金成本提高，通膨也讓物料、人力上漲，好，我們來看臺灣。臺灣說還好欸！臺灣說怎樣？房市不會崩盤，但我們很緊張啊！最近工料雙漲，雖然臺灣通膨較低，升息也較和緩，但只要建案賠錢就可能惡性倒閉。我舉例，最近工料雙漲，臺北市營建成本漲了一倍，從每坪12萬5漲到25萬，全臺營建成本從每坪9萬到15萬，也漲了八成。土建融利息呢？央行升息，其他還有地主的租金補貼、經常性費用、稅金等等，建商如果沒有利潤、賠錢，就可能惡性倒閉，現在有沒有呢？跟你說有！現在臺灣的預售屋，臺北市北投區、大同區有兩個危老預售案，我上次就問過了，營運困難、停止興建，臺北市政府還特別發新聞稿，表示這兩個建案受理信託的瑞興銀行要找廠商續建，如果沒有續建或找不到人續建，就變成爛尾了，請問目前有多少建築融資案還息不正常？有沒有掌握？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這部分我們銀行局有掌握，我不太清楚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不太清楚？那我們來看一下，房屋稅條例通過之後，又有個利空，根據不動產研究專家表示，如果公司資本額跟建案總銷售額落差過大，表示它的財務槓桿很大，碰上升息或利空，什麼叫利空？房屋稅條例，我們說的囤房稅2.0，對於建商會增加餘屋持有成本，它可能會倒閉或跑路，那我們來看一下，是不是金管會可以定期揭露建築融資逾放金額？你們知道目前建築融資逾放金額多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：在0.06%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：0.06%，那總金額多少？正常是多少？我舉例好了，以土銀來講，我只看到一個數字，7月底不動產逾放較去年同期增加了1.35億，1.35億到底是多還是少？有沒有特別波動？你們有沒有清楚？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我們在前年、2021年就開始對比較集中在建築業放款的銀行進行管理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你去年有在管理嘛，所以去年哪幾家知道嘛，那今年哪幾家也知道嘛，銀行局長都知道嘛，可以告訴大家嗎？我剛剛講一家是星展，另外四家呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：星展是因為合併的關係。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對啦！合併嘛！你就講嘛，講了大家就放心了，你不講大家就會想說星展是不是有問題，另外四家呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個是銀行局在列管的，可能不太適合對外講。"],["鍾委員佳濱：說明一下。"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，我們其實對於建築放款，就是現在委員關心的這個部分，對於建築放款集中度過高的銀行，我們其實一直都有在列管當中，打從2年前開始，我們會針對這些銀行請他們提報改善計畫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，那有哪些資訊會揭露？包括你們有定期揭露銀行融資逾放金額嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：建築放款的部分，就是逾放金額跟比率，其實對外都會定期說明。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：不過是整體的，是整體的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：整體的？"],["莊局長琇媛：對，不是個別銀行。"],["鍾委員佳濱：喔！你看，你們還是擔心公布個案恐怕就有壓力，是不是？那好，就算消費大眾不知道，只知道整體的，但因為我們怕有爆雷，第三波不動產專案金檢可以開始著手進行了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我們一直都有做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：一直都有做？我講專案金檢，不是定期金檢。我們看最近6個月又上升了，有沒有必要發動一下、瞭解一下？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，我們請檢查局參考委員的意見。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。我們再往下看，現在的預售屋都是用信託的，倒閉的壓力都回到信託行，我們看看大概有五種情況，就是定型化契約所說的，第一種是價金返還，消費者買的預售屋價金放在金融機構，然後工程款在過戶前不能動用，如果出了問題，消費者可以全數拿回。大概沒有建商會採用這個方法，比較常看到的方法是不動產開發信託跟價金信託，兩者的差別，一個是有信託業者介入，而且動支的價金範圍比較多，這大概是現在市場的主流。另外是同業連帶擔保、子公司跟母公司連帶擔保，這種情況好像是在船上我跟另外一個大胖子綁在一起，船沈了兩個就一起沈，這個保障不多。至於公會連帶擔保，那就更不用講了。好，請問，目前這些資訊，不動產開發信託跟價金信託是誰在掌握勾選這種信託機制的？內政部嘛！對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你們銀行局會不會知道？金管會會不會知道？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們有跟內政部討論某些信託的契約內容。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有討論，很好，現在就是要你們加緊行動，如果信託行找了半天，找不到廠商續建，土地會拍賣。建案停止興建，找續建，續建沒有，則土地拍賣，拍賣流標、拍賣金額不夠償還銀行金額，可能合建戶跟消費者就拿不回預售屋的款項，你說的星展銀行已經發生了嘛，它已經有發生過這樣的情況，交給法院委託臺灣金融資產服務公司進行公開拍賣。好，這是可能發生的情況，不動產信託機制有沒有強化的方向？我們現在看到的這五種方式，目前市場主流是這兩種方式，當無法因應而在未來發生爛尾時、當利息升或利空出的時候，建商承受不起，你們怎麼去對這些不動產放款集中度較高的銀行，或者未來協助不動產開發業者跟消費者訂約的時候，有一個事後比較好的處理機制？你說有跟內政部討論過，那現在的情況怎麼樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，其實有關履約保證部分，有時候購屋者也許會誤會這個保證是有什麼性質，其實那個資金的使用很多是建商也可以用，這些在契約條款上，我們都有跟內政部溝通。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有要進行修改？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們嘗試希望能夠做一些調整。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有跟內政部訂一個期限？因為我們很擔心，現在事先預警在其他國家已經發生了，臺灣會不會發生？我們不能等到發生後再來著手，我建議金管會針對這些後續情況，萬一有問題爆了，消費者的損失如何降到最低等等，趕快跟內政部討論，目前市場上的這兩種主流作法，不管是不動產開發信託，還是價金信託，價金信託當然比較有保障，但這兩者的差異，能不能儘速縮小？或者說未來採取什麼必要的作法，包括契約的修改或應注意事項等等，你們有沒有決定後續什麼時候要公布？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，其實我們都有在處理，不過因為你的垂詢，我們會再跟內政部協調。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我希望你們未來針對不動產信託機制要強化，譬如加強土建融搭配的信託，可能目前價金信託對消費者是比較有保障，也要加強對信託公會的履約擔保教育，尤其是銀行，銀行很多辦理信託的從業人員，他們對信託機制所知有限，這兩個部分有什麼具體方法要來強化？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想根據委員質詢的內容，我們會要求信託公會去處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，這樣我有三點要求，第一點，請你定期揭露本國銀行建築融資逾放金額跟比率，可以嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以？"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是是整體的，個案的部分可能還要再斟酌。"],["鍾委員佳濱：今天所有答詢的個案你們都不講啦！好，第二點，針對不動產放款集中度上升問題，評估進行專案金檢，這個你剛才也同意了嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：檢查局趕快去做嘛！最後請你們趕快跟內政部協調，強化不動產信託機制，評估強制土建融搭配信託，請信託公會加強對行員辦理預售屋履約擔保信託教育，可以嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我們朝委員的方向去努力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：多久可以給我們一個報告？1個月內？事不宜遲，這個你們平常都有在做。"],["黃主任委員天牧：1個月內。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝主委，謝謝局長。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。"],["主席（鍾委員佳濱代）：接下來有請費鴻泰費召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148880","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148880","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da380ee81afef1f0f596208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322f072a55b25eb6c425ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國書","委員發言時間":"10:04:29 - 10:15:00","影片長度":"00:10:31","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":631,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:15:00+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T10:04:29+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":498,"blocks":[["黃委員國書：（10時4分）謝謝主席，請部長、署長。"],["主席：有請部長、署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["黃委員國書：署長好。大巨蛋開幕首戰臺灣贏球，當然大家都很振奮，但是事先大家都說這個會有黃牛，後來果然有黃牛。事先當然知道了，署長也說正式要來修法，這個當然值得鼓勵，當然要修法，文化部很多的演出有黃牛，文化部都修法了，體育署這邊當然也要有積極作為，不過要怎麼樣來處理？也就是說，明明事先就知道他會有黃牛，結果我們還是眼睜睜地看著黃牛事件發生，我們有什麼辦法在事先防範？這個我要來跟體育署討論。","「大巨蛋搶完票就湧出黃牛票」，臺北市議員說，臺北市政府明明知道，也是擺爛。當然臺北市政府他們也要承擔很大的責難。文創法針對藝文演出的黃牛有在執行了，6月2日就開始施行了，但是他受理藝文表演票券的黃牛檢舉，也就是事後來檢舉，當然重罰。我們來檢視一下文創法規範的藝文演出到目前的狀況，從6月開始到11月底，文創法管轄中形式要件要齊備的部分，這個齊備要多麻煩呢？要取得加價轉售票之時間、管道、平台，這些都要具體的指出來，還有販售人姓名或別稱、聯絡電話、電子郵件、其他聯絡方式等等。也就是說，他要有這些要件，且這些要件都要非常具體，這個對檢舉人來說的確是很麻煩，所以才會形成總共只有334件是形式要件備齊的，不齊備的則有五百多件，也就是說，我們經過這麼多文創法管轄範圍內的檢舉，其中齊備的、構成違反文創法的、構成黃牛的只有38%，這個要給體育署參考，因為接下來你們要修法。只有38%，你們未來要怎麼處理這個部分？檢舉的要件需要這個樣子嗎？問題是這很兩難，如果我們沒有這些繁瑣的要件的話，它就很難構成具體的事證，這個都很麻煩處理。所以體育署在未來要做這個專法的時候，的確要更進一步來思考，在取締體育黃牛、在運動產業相關的法制上，你們要如何有辦法、有效且具體的來處理這個部分？","現在黃牛程式掃票，人家用AI去買票，你也很難去找到當事人是誰，那怎麼辦呢？人家都運用高科技在買黃牛票了，我們要怎麼樣來執行？這個也是有高難度的，這個部分也要給體育署參考。所以我們才會想到乾脆來做實名制好了，可是體育署署長說，這個如果用實名制的話，會造成民眾入場時一個很大的困擾，但是臺北市政府說，應該要研議實名制。臺北市政府說要研議實名制，體育署署長說這會造成很大的困擾，所以目前不研議實名制，到底該不該來做實名制？我想不出更好的辦法，也就是說，明明知道這一場一定會有黃牛票，事先就已經知道了，我們還眼睜睜地看著黃牛的行為發生，政府沒有更好的辦法、更好的策略了嗎？我不是說一定要實名制，但是實名制是一個策略，有沒有具體可行的辦法？如果沒有具體可行的辦法，實名制當然就是策略的一種。","當然我們不可能每一場都實名制，像臺灣跟韓國一定會有黃牛，臺灣跟香港就不會有黃牛，所以一定是針對有可能有黃牛的，體育署要事先預告這一場會有黃牛，黃牛不要囂張，我們會嚴懲、重罰，然後這一場我們會採取什麼樣的策略，讓黃牛止步。你至少要先有一些宣誓性的作法嘛！大巨蛋的首戰，我們就是眼睜睜地看著黃牛猖獗，我們卻束手無策，事後才說我們要來修法、我們要來接受檢舉，弄到來啊，人家黃牛的行為都已經賺飽飽了，還讓那些猖獗的黃牛笑我們政府說，你就是拿我沒辦法啊！你怎麼辦呢？想出具體可行的辦法啦！","再來，對於運動產業，除了黃牛會造成很大的影響之外，我認為職籃的假球風暴會對臺灣的運動產業造成非常非常大的傷害。運彩條例第二十一條是重罰的，最近針對職籃假球的風暴要開鍘指標性案件，這個很好。但我們來看運彩發行條例怎麼規範？這個都重罰耶！以強暴、脅迫、詐術或其他非法之方法，處一年以上七年以下有期徒刑。如果是結夥三人以上，就是它是一個團體犯罪的話，是處三年以上，我們對這個是重罰。臺灣運彩是針對中華職棒，當然還有職籃，體育署要去掌握到底還有多少場比賽是沒有開盤的？我現在臚列給你們參考。","職棒有很多是運彩沒有開盤的場數，職籃也還有很多沒有開盤，我要特別提到，職籃的PLG跟T1是臺灣運彩沒有提供投注的，這是一個很大的黑數，這些臺灣運彩沒有提供投注的，他們要賭什麼？當然是地下賭盤，地下賭盤都是針對PLG跟T1，這個如果逮到的話，要用什麼罪？沒有辦法用運彩條例來處罰，那個是重罪、重刑喔！對於沒有提供投注、沒有開盤的這些 T1和PLG，你逮到之後只能用賭博罪，賭博罪是罰多少錢？5萬以下，所以當然這個部分地下賭盤會很猖獗。","所以我在這裡建議，除了以運彩條例第二十一條來重罰之外，針對臺灣運彩沒有規範到的、沒有開盤的那些賽事的地下賭盤，我們還是要提出一些有效的作法。黃牛跟假球對臺灣的運動產業會造成非常大的傷害，請署長或是部長回答。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員剛剛對這方面的很多提醒，當然運動賽事跟活動這部分，今天如果能夠在貴委員會獲得委員的同意、支持，我想這個在法制面上跟過去只是用社會秩序維護的強度是完全不同的。委員剛才也提到，包含文化部在藝文門票實施到現在的一些情形提醒，這部分教育部體育署也會跟文化部就執行的面，因為有一個法制的基礎下，能不能有效？這個是委員剛才所提到的，我想這部分我們兩個部會會進一步做這方面的研處。","至於剛才委員提到地下的方面，確實是目前法規並沒有特別再去點到的，這個我們可能真的需要比較深入的來做一些探討。謝謝委員剛才所提到這些相關的提醒事項，我想教育部會來持續的做，如果法制通過之後，後面在執行上，我們希望能夠研擬更好的方式。如果在很多的場次，因為實名制是最根本的走向，如果在相關配套可行之下，我想這部分我們應該跟主辦單位討論，希望能夠儘量朝這個方向進行，因為主要都是在維護觀眾的觀賞權益，我們相信主辦單位如果技術各方面能搭配起來，這確實是一個更根本的方法。"],["黃委員國書：針對一些熱門的場次，我認為體育署應該去研擬規劃類實名制的作法，一方面我們當然要減少繁複的程序，包括要去觀看、要進到那個場地的時候的作業程序，那是非常非常繁瑣的，當然你們去想辦法做一些簡化作業，然後運用現在的科技，現在的科技其實可以非常便捷的來解決這個問題，至少你在事前宣告你這一場是要實名制了，其實就是要有效遏止黃牛。這一場都要實名制，黃牛幹嘛去掃票啊？加上事後的重罰，這個給你們參考啦！好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：部長請回，謝謝黃國書委員的質詢。","再來請陳靜敏委員質詢。待陳秀寳委員質詢結束後，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148879","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148879","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3f1d740fcda6047e266b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322eb35d54e917fb2375ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李貴敏","委員發言時間":"09:57:17 - 10:09:01","影片長度":"00:11:44","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":704,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:09:01+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:57:17+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":320,"blocks":[["李委員貴敏：（9時57分）謝謝主席。主席，麻煩請黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早！"],["李委員貴敏：主委好！剛才郭委員請教你的時候說，執政的結果讓他們執政黨的委員承受責任，這樣不好。上面來講，顯見對於執政的成效，其實執政黨的委員也頗有微詞。","我第一個問題要請教的是，過往民間感受到的就是該管的東西你不管，不該管的東西，細節的部分，你介入太多，因為細節的部分你管太多，當然你的人員沒有時間去做該管的事情。我們就舉例來講，寄送帳單的部分，這個還是小事，我們還講像你的公司治理3.0，外面的專業評鑑機構評鑑過了不算，你還要你們的人員來決定它有沒有得1分、得2分。主委，你有沒有覺得這個東西實在是不該管的管太多，你怎麼有辦法去管這麼多的事情？真正該管的事情，譬如詐騙的東西，詐騙的問題在1年之前我就提醒了，但是這個網路詐騙的情況到現在為止沒有舒緩、沒有舒緩，所以我們看到應該管的東西你不管，還有什麼應該管的東西呢？包括我們現在講的IFRS17、ICS這個部分，怎麼樣讓我們跟國際能夠接軌的部分，你這麼慢，連東南亞國家其實都比我們來得快，這些能夠讓我們跟全球接軌的部分反而是遲緩的。我們再看看洗錢的部分，其實你一直以來就是一個監管洗錢的單位，可是我們看到虛擬資產的洗錢部分，你管了嗎？我要請教Token的部分，你管了嗎？Token的部分，你管了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前虛擬資產的洗錢是我們金管會在管……"],["李委員貴敏：沒錯，但你管了嗎？是你職掌的部分。你透過正軌的部分，你管得非常嚴，除了我之外，我相信很多朋友都有同樣的經驗，我們連用存摺去匯錢到國外去，行員還要問，你存摺的錢從哪裡來的？存摺的錢除了是你的薪水、你的收入之外，錢還會從哪裡來的？它都一筆一筆清清楚楚的，這些雞毛蒜皮的事情你要管，但是該管的東西你不管，主委，透過Token洗錢，有沒有可能？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是有可能。"],["李委員貴敏：好，那你管了沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：金管會在組織條例中規定是管合法的金融機構。"],["李委員貴敏：所以 Token 的洗錢，你不管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們是管金融機構的防制洗錢。"],["李委員貴敏：所以 Token 的洗錢，你不管？我第三次問。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們沒有管。"],["李委員貴敏：你們沒有管，那誰管？在你的行政單位裡面有任何的機關去管Token 的洗錢嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個業務有其他的單位會負責。"],["李委員貴敏：其他單位是誰？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想就是負責查辦犯罪的單位。"],["李委員貴敏：是誰？"],["黃主任委員天牧：檢警調都是查辦犯罪的單位。"],["李委員貴敏：好，所以是檢警調不辦，造成今天的情況……"],["黃主任委員天牧：他們沒有不辦。"],["李委員貴敏：你只管合法的銀行，其他的像是虛擬貨幣、黑市，你完全都不管，包括地下錢莊，你也完全都不管。你去管合法的部分，雞毛蒜皮的事情管這麼多，能夠解決我們今天所面臨的社會問題嗎？你認為可不可以？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我覺得可以。"],["李委員貴敏：今天只要是守法的人，你雞毛蒜皮的事拚命的下令，然後對於不守法的人，你雙手一攤，你就可以解決問題嗎？就像剛剛我們講的其中一個問題，即貸款仲介，人家需要錢的時候，主委認為他從地下錢莊借也不歸你管，對不對？你剛剛講只有合法金融，所以地下錢莊也不歸你管，是不是？除了地下錢莊之外，對貸款仲介又能夠怎麼樣？我最近還聽到民間反映，當銀行認為貸款人不符合資格、不能夠放款給他的時候，貸款人只要跟你申訴，銀行就會被扣一點，然後銀行就要放款給他，是這樣子嗎？是真的有這樣的情形嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我覺得這不是事實。"],["李委員貴敏：不是事實的話，那就是民間的訊息錯誤，你是不是應該要釐清呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們會釐清。"],["李委員貴敏：但我知道實際上的情形不只是這個，還包括繼承，只要不符合規定的標準，譬如跟財政部申報的東西不一樣，然後到你這邊來申訴的時候，全部都開大門，所以簡單來講，你是不是讓全國有兩套標準的情況？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對於委員的指教，我們虛心檢討。"],["李委員貴敏：不是虛心檢討，你應該坐在前面，而不是在後面，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["李委員貴敏：我們是監督政府，不是鞭策你。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解，謝謝委員。"],["李委員貴敏：因為我們也……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我知道，謝謝委員指導。"],["李委員貴敏：你知道之後，你告訴我，現在金管會要做什麼事情？冒名的事情，你管不管？冒名詐騙的部分，你管不管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：要看是不是在比方投資的管道上，我們就有管。"],["李委員貴敏：所以你只管合法的人，非法的人不歸你管，所以你認為是檢調單位該管，洗錢的部分除了透過銀行洗錢之外，至於其他的，你不管，哪個呆子透過銀行洗錢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：也有，我們在防制洗錢的規範上除了金融機構之外，還包括融資性租賃公司的洗錢，也是我們在管。"],["李委員貴敏：Token洗錢，你管不管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我們沒有管。"],["李委員貴敏：既然沒有管，你有反映嗎？你們橫向不溝通的？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們防制洗錢上有中央的部會在協調。"],["李委員貴敏：我再問你一下，我們再換個方式問，個資你管不管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：管金融機構的個資。"],["李委員貴敏：其他的個資，你不管？因為金融機構的部分，我們光看到保險業洩漏出去的個資資料就高達36筆，裡面還不包括銀行業，這個還是你裁處的部分，沒有裁處的案件又更多，怎麼你管的部分是越管越多，卻讓人民的個資洩漏出去？人民的個資洩漏出去之後，你有沒有通知被洩漏個資的個人呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們有要求銀行要去通知。"],["李委員貴敏：銀行通知了沒有呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：他們會照我們的意思去通知，我們後面都有列管。"],["李委員貴敏：既然你們都有列管，你多久追蹤一次？"],["黃主任委員天牧：比方我們要求被裁罰的銀行提出改善報告。"],["李委員貴敏：有關改善的部分，從審計部給的資料顯示，金融機構共同的資安缺失高達12件，這個還是非常、非常保守的估計，這些問題解決了嗎？這個是111年度的，所以到現在來講已經是舊的事情，你解決了什麼呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：資安的問題是不斷地再去努力、改進的……"],["李委員貴敏：你這個是形容詞！我再幫你回答好了，你解決了什麼資安問題？你做了什麼樣的因應措施？主委應該很自豪地說，我規定上市櫃公司通通都要設置資安長，然後設置了資安長之後怎麼樣呢？解決了什麼樣的問題呢？這12項缺失解決了什麼呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：金融機構達一定規模都有設資安長……"],["李委員貴敏：所以只要設了一個職位，問題就會自動消失？"],["黃主任委員天牧：設資安長的意思是，有更多的資源跟權責要求他做好資安工作。"],["李委員貴敏：所以你的職責是你下命令、下規定，要做就是民間該做，是不是這樣的意思？"],["黃主任委員天牧：金管會有一部分是掌舵，划槳是金融機構要去做的。"],["李委員貴敏：對，金融機構去做了之後，不就是民間在做嗎？所以今天最重要的是你的心態要改啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["李委員貴敏：行政單位是服務老百姓，不是老百姓的太上皇。你現在只規定，然後要老百姓做。有很多的訊息，你認不認為資訊應該公開透明？"],["黃主任委員天牧：要看情況，國安資訊不應該，國安資訊或是重要的金融資訊不應該。"],["李委員貴敏：你厲害！你這是違反全球的潮流，OECD說政府的資訊應該要公開透明，不是嗎？美國的 SEC就相當於我們的金管會，美國強調的也是資訊的公開透明。現在是政府的資訊都不公開透明，可是你要求老百姓的資訊要公開透明，這合理嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我說的是政府資訊也有分類，不是所有的都可以公開。"],["李委員貴敏：符合國家機密保護法……"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，要符合法律才可以公開。"],["李委員貴敏：你不是在浪費時間，就是在甩鍋嗎？我請問你，你認為銀行暴險的高低符合國家機密保護法嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個可以公開。"],["李委員貴敏：可以公開，很好！我們看到銀行的風險大增，不管是歐美商銀也好，大陸金融風暴也好，SVB 也好，瑞士信貸也好，這一些是我們從媒體上看出來，還不是從你的官網。我們把這些暴險的部分加起來是1.46兆，這個數字很小是不是？"],["黃主任委員天牧：暴險就是它的資產額度，暴險的「險」跟risk不能夠等同說都是風險，這是資產。"],["李委員貴敏：對！你為什麼不把現在所有的東西統計公開在你的官網上，然後你再告訴別人，暴險跟實際上的風險是兩回事。你可以在你的官網上說明，這不也是一個教育的方式嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們都有公布一些國家的風險。"],["李委員貴敏：你的公布散落在各個地方。我覺得有一件事情很奇怪，是什麼事情呢？關於敵意併購，你是贊成，還是不贊成？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前我們同意，法規上有。"],["李委員貴敏：關於敵意併購，所以你是贊成，還是不贊成？法規有是有，但你是鼓勵，還是反對？它是一個態度問題。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們提供制度，由市場自己決定。"],["李委員貴敏：所以你不贊成也不反對。我請問一下，既然你不贊成也不反對，為什麼這些符合敵意併購資格的銀行不能夠公布？它也是符合國家機密保護法裡面的規定，是絕對機密、相對機密，它是機密，所以不准公布嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們前2天有公布。"],["李委員貴敏：現在、112年符合的部分，你有公布嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有幾家有符合、有公布。"],["李委員貴敏：2020年的有公布，但你現在的有沒有公布？再問一次。"],["黃主任委員天牧：前2天記者會還……"],["李委員貴敏：各個名單全部都公布了，是不是？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有一些條件有公布。"],["李委員貴敏：不是條件，是符合的銀行，你有公布，還是沒有公布？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有公布啊。"],["李委員貴敏：全部都公布了，是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有公布啊。"],["李委員貴敏：好，我們再查，顯然我們沒有查到。因為時間的關係，所以我今天質詢到這裡，我還有書面的質詢，再拜託。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["李委員貴敏：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接著請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148878","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148878","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da33a3a2b34b4acbadb6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322b20d4d170e3d7e975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張廖萬堅","委員發言時間":"09:53:19 - 10:04:24","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":665,"end_time":"2023-12-06T10:04:24+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:53:19+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":469,"blocks":[["張廖委員萬堅：（9時53分）謝謝，我們請部長。"],["主席：請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員好。"],["張廖委員萬堅：部長好。我們今天要修運動產業發展條例，當然跟黃牛票有關係，其實體育的黃牛票並不罕見，就像我們剛才看到巨蛋的事件。其實我們再往前推，像彭政閔引退的那一場，大概是2019年，在網路上923塊的門票超過了13倍，被喊價喊到了1萬2,323，像這樣也算黃牛票嘛！對不對？另外，像去年的美國職籃明星魔獸，他加入桃園雲豹，結果黃牛票也讓最便宜的100塊門票漲到2,300。像這樣的事情，包括我們最近看到的亞錦賽，其實亞錦賽以前再怎麼熱門，因為像日本只是派社會球隊的精英，而臺灣因為棒球是國球，大家都很喜歡看，只是過去除了殺進冠亞軍以外，一般的賽程會像經典賽一樣爆滿其實比較少，但是這次可能是因為巨蛋是第一次開放，然後臺灣有了巨蛋，所以大家都想要去體驗。","你看這次開放了三波，第一波11月24號的3,000張秒殺，後來主辦單位開賣25號、28號、30號的門票，分別賣了1萬張、3,000張跟1,000張，都是秒殺，真的是秒殺。我在網路上也收到很多球迷的抗議跟陳情，他們認為說這個根本就是用掃票機器掃的，這樣的掃，然後公然的哄擡，因為運產條例還沒有修，我們目前有抓到，但抓到了大概只能用違反社會秩序維護法來罰，抓了67個黃牛、170張票，這個黃牛囂張的程度其實讓球迷非常的生氣，也非常的不滿，所以我想今天的修法大概是朝野共識，希望趕快修法。","我們其實都很期待重要的賽事能夠得到球迷的支持，尤其是在疫情之後，我們看到最近重要的藝文活動其實都還不錯，包括我們的運動都還不錯，像之前國內的體壇其實歷經一段低潮，譬如說職籃解散，曾經也有過要解散，後來職棒又因為簽賭案越來越少。最近都不錯，最近職籃冒出了二個聯盟，職棒也要重返六隊了，票房越來越好，所以我們也擔心黃牛這時候會在熱門的球賽裡面又開始伺機而動，影響到球迷的權益。剛才署長也有提到，我想不只是明年的12強賽、後年的經典賽，其實明年初可能是3月份就有讀賣巨人90週年的紀念，只要它到巨蛋去打，我相信都是熱門的球賽，尤其是讀賣巨人裡面以前早期臺灣的球星怪力呂明賜也曾經在那邊打過，都是很有名的，對臺灣人來講，讀賣巨人也是一個大家非常想要看的球隊。我們都不希望看到今天這個票被秒殺之後又拿出來賣的情況，黃牛一抓67個，沒抓的有多少？","我想要跟部長及署長講，我們除了有法律之外還有幾個問題必須面對，就是怎麼樣去抓？譬如說我們這次的修法和文化部的修法，其實運動產業發展條例第二十四條之一跟文化創意產業發展法第十條之一的內容差不多，大同小異，大概也是罰10到50倍，最多關3年或罰300萬。我們來看一看文創法修法之後實施的狀況，被檢舉的大概500案，六都一共333案，目前來看，臺北市檢舉的案件最多213案，目前只裁罰了5案，罰了44.16萬，另外還有26案沒有罰，其他的案件可能都在調查中，也沒有那麼快成案；其他新北、桃園、臺中、臺南都還沒有開罰的案例；高雄檢舉了65案，8件成立，罰了42.98萬，看起來是比社會秩序維護法1.8萬多了一些錢，但是這被罰的13案也不過罰了87萬。","現在黃牛條文如果上路，我們今天修法過了，案件那麼多，裁罰少，像文創相關的條例通過之後，我們抓的文化黃牛，333案只罰了13案，原因到底是什麼？我們在場是不是也有文化部或者是其他的官員，是不是講一下？另外，其實文化部有設立一個檢舉黃牛的專區，教育部會設置這個檢舉的專區嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：這部分有必要。"],["張廖委員萬堅：還是跟文化部一起同一個窗口？因為有的球迷搞不清楚，他就跑去檢舉。"],["潘部長文忠：應該說我們會設置專區，至於是不是跟文化部共同，我們二個部會會商一下。"],["張廖委員萬堅：要不要設統一窗口，還是分別設，還是說統一窗口進去之後分流，分成文化的跟運動的，你們會商一下。我覺得這個對年輕人來講，這是他們能夠來看球賽很重要的一個管道，如果每次看到熱門賽事想要去看就被哄擡到那種不成比例的價格，我想球迷們會非常失望。","另外大家都有提到免費票要怎麼罰的問題，因為我們的條例裡面，包括文創產業發展條例裡面都沒有提到免費票怎麼罰，這個我剛才講的是不是署長或部長能夠回應？"],["潘部長文忠：當然，實名制確實比較能夠防止這一個方面……"],["張廖委員萬堅：就是免費票的部分。"],["潘部長文忠：對，但這個要變成完全全面，有時候碰到有一些……"],["張廖委員萬堅：我知道，業者會認為時間太長、排隊排太久。"],["潘部長文忠：這個方面我想我們是可以做一個……在目前修法的內容裡面，確實比較沒有涉及到免費的這一方面，但是我想在整個技術跟方向上面，確實我們也可以朝更鼓勵這些舉辦的單位能夠朝實名制的方式來做，如果規模不是那麼大其實是更可以……"],["張廖委員萬堅：部長，我剛才問的重點有二個，一個是我們法修過之後，以文化的黃牛來看，檢舉很多，但罰的很少，它會不會造成嚇阻作用？其實這些掃票機器也抓到了，我聽說這次抓到二個掃票機器，掃票機器可以判3年以下的徒刑，我們會不會判刑？這個東西如果只是提高罰款額度，可是跟整個黃牛產業的利益不成比例的時候，坦白講，沒有作用，所以我問一下署長，以你在學界跟實務界這樣看，這個法修這樣有沒有遏阻的作用？"],["鄭署長世忠：基本上，如果是單就個人去搶票，然後拿來販賣的話，我想我們目前比照文化部的修法，用這樣10到50倍的罰款應該是還算符合。至於掃票機器人這部分的確有必要……"],["張廖委員萬堅：這些掃票機器人很可惡啊，幾秒鐘全部都掃光了。"],["鄭署長世忠：對，所以的確有需要判刑，不過這部分可能還是……"],["張廖委員萬堅：它可能就是一個批發商，掃到之後批給小黃牛，小黃牛再出去賣，所以你們一定要去追，這個源頭如果沒有打擊的話，底下的小黃牛一定是沒有辦法遏阻啦！我們從文化黃牛看起來有這個現象，其他抓到的可能到現在也還在起訴中，或者說也還沒有正式提出告訴，我們也都會密切注意，徒法不足以自行，坦白講，修了法利益良善，但有沒有辦法遏阻又是一個問題。另外就是我剛才講第二個免費票的問題，你們還是要有一個辦法來阻止。","最後，對不起，再給我2分鐘，我現在問一下署長，我在11月6日審預算的時候提到公西靶場的事情，公西靶場11月6號我提的時候是整目凍結100萬而已，不想凍結預算。我們也知道，剛才部長在報告裡面提到，我們的奧運選手2024年已經有16位選手達到標準會去比賽，其中有5個選手就是射擊的選手，射擊是這麼的重要，我們的成績已經有5位達標了，5位都是在公西靶場練習，結果公西靶場心理師招聘已經1年了，所以1個月前我審預時非常關心，因為我們去考察的時候，裡面的教練、協會都是說心理師對於射擊選手非常重要。可是我非常失望，因為你們11月29號剛剛上網招募的這個公西靶場計畫運動心理人員，到12月7號明天為止，請問有人投遞嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，到目前為止還沒有聘到，但是昨天我們在署內由次長主持，針對我們國訓中心的職員，包括我們的心理人員的薪資部分有做一個調整，所以我們當然期待下一次應該就會有人來投遞。"],["張廖委員萬堅：坦白講，我非常不滿意，11月6號我們才做了這樣決議，凍結了。我們希望能夠提調高薪水，你們也說會調高薪水，市場人才已經很少了，我們的奧運選手16位現在已經有5位是射擊選手了，結果你們到現在還是用原來薪水招聘，當然招聘不到嘛！你們夠積極嗎？我非常質疑，我希望這部分能夠更積極。有資源，也給你們了，也在關心了，可是現在上網招募的還是這種薪水，還是又要再開一次會，我覺得這個後勤的支援也未免讓我太失望，積極一點去輔導這些選手，已經5位了，男女射擊的選手已經有5位了，16位中已經5位了，拜託一下，積極一點。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：部長、署長請回，謝謝張廖萬堅委員。","再來我們請黃國書委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148877","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148877","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da37199b9b8c389b66c66b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322a0cd956ccde8f9615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:46:33 - 09:57:05","影片長度":"00:10:32","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":632,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:57:05+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:46:33+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":232,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時46分）主席，有請黃主委。"],["主席：黃主委，來。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["郭委員國文：主委好。主委，我想針對今天的主題，有關於在地措施跟過渡期的問題，我們知道韓國也有過渡期，大約是10年，我們拉長到15年。兩國的體制當然是不太相同，是不是意味著臺灣需要增資的金額比較高昂？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們過去老保單積累得比較多，6%以上的保單積累得比較多。"],["郭委員國文：所以說主要是高利保單嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["郭委員國文：主要關鍵因素是高利保單，那如果要讓這26家壽險公司都合規的話，高利保單比較多的應該是在老8家的那幾家嘛，就是剩下的這6家這邊，所占的比例應該是比較高的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員您指導得對，其實外資的，或是中小型的，通常是80年以後成立的比較少。"],["郭委員國文：比較少嘛！那我再抓了一下國泰、中壽、南山、新光、臺壽、全球這6家業者所占的資產比例，大約是整個壽險業者的67%，高達七成，我現在要問的是說，我們要進行社會說服的時候，15年後你也不在這個位置了，那我也不可能一直做，我也許不是立委……"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員會高升啦！"],["郭委員國文：這種情況底下，我們怎麼進行社會的交代，你15年後業者會不會再期待有另一個15年？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實跟委員報告，我們在11月23號……"],["郭委員國文：有什麼方法？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個15年是給了它優惠措施50個basis point之後，但是中間還會有定期跟不定期的檢討。"],["郭委員國文：您有定期，你分了每5年定期一次，我有看到。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["郭委員國文：但問題是，你要用什麼方式讓他們能夠真正地在15年裡頭完成呢？我是好奇這一點。因為這15年如果從一個反向的思考來看的話，會吵的孩子有糖吃，就是把你延長到15年。對於乖化的孩子，有沒有可能給予獎勵呢？譬如講，你15年分成A、B、C三個階段，前面5年的部分，你有沒有給它什麼樣的誘因或獎勵？要給聽話的小孩，不要給吵的小孩吃嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員的這個用語我非常認同，不能說吵的小孩才有糖吃。"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：一定要很公平，看你努力多少，努力得多我給得多。"],["郭委員國文：是啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：努力得少我就給得少，我非常贊成你的想法，我們就是要業者提出自主改進方案，然後這個方案不是只有我在的時候會去遵循……"],["郭委員國文：你用什麼誘因？maybe你給它15年，或許大家覺得誘因很好，前5年全部都達成了，有沒有可能？主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這就是我們現階段要跟公會去討論，讓他們心服口服，建立一個機制，就是差異化。你做的、你努力得多，我後面……"],["郭委員國文：當然要有差異化啊！主委，不然大家都撒手不管，就一直在 standby，等待下一個15年。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員您的關切就是我們的關切，我們也不希望有這種套利的問題。"],["郭委員國文：你會用出什麼樣的法寶？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個目前已經有一些想法還要繼續跟公會討論。"],["郭委員國文：講一下、透露一下嘛！既然我問了，你當然要透露一下啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：比方說就是……這個局長來說明好了。"],["施局長瓊華：我們現在正在跟公會討論，比方如果增資或者是它能夠強化資本的話，這個部分我們會給它一些誘因，另外，就是它的商品結構轉型，能夠多推CSM高一點的……"],["郭委員國文：局長，你的具體誘因是什麼？"],["施局長瓊華：這個部分還在討論當中。"],["郭委員國文：就是不講，好，不為難。","主委，我再請教於您，我建議一個誘因，來試看看，好不好？因為我發現這幾年壽險公司在公建部分的投資有往上攀升，在2022年大概是442億，當然這個資本規模相對來算還不是很大，但是我們都知道壽險公司在國內找不到標的，在國外投資的比例過高，暴險當然過高，形成結構性的困難，所以一直想要透過投資公建的方式來做處理，現階段我們財政部在整個促參的部分也做一些提升及調整，未來我們的REITs也有可能，對不對？像這種搭配的情況底下，我找到一個，譬如接下來的修法當中，REITs投資公建的部分是10%，我舉一個例子，類似這種東西，你看到投資標的，每一個壽險公司都可以來投，但是如果它的體質比較好，是不是可以有一個優惠條款，提升到15%或怎樣，類似這樣子有沒有可能？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這些差異化我們都會參考，委員，您的提示我們會參考。"],["郭委員國文：所以類似這種東西你們有準備，這些準備的差異化措施約莫什麼時候出來？這樣子我們進行社會說服比較有一個具體的說法嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，大概明年6月以前會把它完整揭露。"],["郭委員國文：明年6月？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，要跟公會討論。"],["郭委員國文：那大概還有半年的時間。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，儘快會提出來。"],["郭委員國文：好，我6月等候你們具體的誘因及措施。","另外一個部分，就整個在地化措施的部分，我們政策性公建的風險係數是維持在1.28%啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["郭委員國文：當然第一波階段的在地化措施你認為1.28%要維持，但是有沒有可能因為獎勵讓整個資金能夠快速地流到公建，再微調下降？有沒有可能？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想委員的指教我們會跟公會再討論。"],["郭委員國文：對，因為這樣你才能讓整個資金結構性的困境來做調整，不是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個係數的考慮，尤其是對於國家的重要公共建設，我想我們會做考量。"],["郭委員國文：特別本席一直強調的是軌道運輸，因為促參的部分一直在講長照、冷鏈，國家的冷鏈預算已經投入很多，軌道建設的部分，資金的規模非常的龐大，而且每一個地方政府都有需求的情況底下，或許請主委多費心在這個部分。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，委員的提示我們會參考，謝謝您。"],["郭委員國文：好，請主委費心。","另外一個部分，主委，我看你最近又有一個很魄力的說法，就是金融機關不能受理代辦業者的案件，這有層出不窮的問題，你這個斷然措施真的可以解決這個問題嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個是因為我們相關的局收到一些陳情函或者看到一些情況，我自己就看到一些廣告……"],["郭委員國文：是呀！巧立名目、詐騙、個資外洩，用合法來掩飾非法，這是典型的作法嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，所以我們擔心消費者受騙或者受到不公平的……"],["郭委員國文：對，但你這樣子把代辦公司砍掉之後，代辦公司會消失匿蹤嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們盡我們的努力，當然希望民眾都是跟正當的金融機構去往來。"],["郭委員國文：就不要找代辦，直接找金融公司，金融公司的通路也會比較流暢……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們有非常多的金融機構。"],["郭委員國文：但是取代金融機關的功能部分不是只有代辦公司而已，還有融資公司，融資公司本席就問過你好幾次了，融資公司的爭議也蠻多的，主委，我就沒有看到你很斷然的措施，以前1年300件，現在350件，也是節節上升，每天都在爆發問題，也曾經出過收額外費用的問題，我問過您之後，你們在行政院煞有其事地開過一次會，後來就沒消沒息了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個牽涉比較廣，而且也有牽涉到一些素質比較不是很好的類似公司……"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：所以大家有些顧慮啦！"],["郭委員國文：是啊！所以這個你就沒有辦法像代辦公司一刀切了，沒有一刀切，你要怎麼處理？後來就沒消息，主委，半年了耶！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們跟長官都有討論過啦！"],["郭委員國文：討論過？你這樣微笑，我看不出什麼意思耶！"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有，暫時我們還是維持現在的狀況，我們希望強化金融機構的服務。"],["郭委員國文：所以融資公司的專法就不處理就是了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，目前沒有進一步的處理。"],["郭委員國文：沒有進一步的處理，之所以會這樣考量，你也不要跟我講結果，你跟我講幾個理由，讓我心服口服一下，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為我想融資公司裡面內含的範圍很廣，我覺得大家都有一些顧慮啦！"],["郭委員國文：你有一些顧慮，至少本席質詢完之後，你要給我一個說明，告訴我完整的說明嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，我們陳報給委員一個說明。"],["郭委員國文：甚至有一些人也認為一定要設，我要找你們的理由去跟人家進行社會對話……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["郭委員國文：不然我們是執政黨的委員，我們只能承擔你們不願意做的責任，卻沒有辦法找出一個理由來進行社會說服。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好。"],["郭委員國文：好。","主委，最後一題我要就教於您的是詐騙的問題很嚴重，之前我就請教您，阻詐的成績你們都用實體的部分，臨櫃、信用這個部分，但是問題是還有包括信用卡、網路銀行、電子支付，我們想要知道到底這種網路虛擬的詐騙程度多大？看不到相關的數據，只有間接性的指標，還有提供所謂的虛擬帳號等等，只有類似這樣子，但是絕對的金額看不到，如果沒有這些絕對的金額，一來不知道問題的嚴重性，二來也不知道你付出了多少努力，這個有沒有可能做一次性的公布或相關的統計，讓國人知道我們有具體的打詐或者是需要提醒的地方？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，謝謝您的指導，因為包括我們自己有很多在臨櫃或是相關的阻詐成績是從警政署那邊得來的，所以您指導了之後，我們會跟警政署那邊聯繫，看其他這幾個通路有沒有可能有具體的數字，我們也讓外界知道。"],["郭委員國文：對，就是除了實體的部分之外，其他虛擬通路的部分也要一併公布……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是、是。"],["郭委員國文：這樣才能夠讓事情的真相完整的呈現，請主委費心，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接著請李貴敏委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148876","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148876","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da31742b7d926a89a116208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322e7b941279cec53335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"09:41:03 - 09:53:13","影片長度":"00:12:10","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":730,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:53:13+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:41:03+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":435,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（9時41分）謝謝主席，有請鄭署長。"],["主席：請署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員早。"],["林委員宜瑾：署長早。上週末臺北大巨蛋舉辦亞錦賽開幕戰，孵了32年的大巨蛋終於迎來第一場正式賽，而且這次對戰是全臺灣球迷最熱烈關注的臺韓大戰，因為是具有歷史關鍵的一戰，署長也親自為這場比賽開球，我想你應該非常興奮。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實我事前不曉得，是當場才告知我的。"],["林委員宜瑾：哦，是喔！那感覺如何？"],["鄭署長世忠：很興奮。"],["林委員宜瑾：真的喔，好。大巨蛋開放球迷進場的第一場測試賽總共開放1萬3,000人免費索票，門票一開放就秒殺。這次亞錦賽的開幕戰是開放到1萬7,000人，我們辦公室助理在每一波釋票的時候都開始搶，統統沒有搶到。這兩場指標性的比賽座位數供不應求，當然我們就知道會有黃牛票產生。免費的票甚至被炒到四、五千塊，亞錦賽的內野600塊也都被炒到四、五千塊，這樣的狀況當然非常惡劣，所以我們這次修正運動產業發展條例就是抓到涉嫌販賣黃牛票的情況將要重罰，處每張票券10至50倍罰鍰，我想這是好的方向。","不過本席想請教的就是，像這次大巨蛋的測試賽是採取免費索票，那這個黃牛票要怎麼罰？如果之後有類似的測試賽，或者是學生運動比賽是免費的，像HBL、UBA這種免費的賽事，黃牛拿到票之後再來轉售，這個要怎麼罰？因為它的票面金額是零，以院版規定的10到50倍來講，零乘以10到50還是零，而且這種比賽也不是比照藝文展演，每個座位區塊有一個價格，因為它全部免費，所以也沒辦法有一個定價。","我可以理解像這種大巨蛋的測試賽可能要好幾年才有一次，可是對運動迷來講，這當然也是相當的重要，像我們臺中之後會有一個國際級的臺中足球園區在2025年要完工，可能也將面臨到這種狀況，會被不肖黃牛破壞這種美事，所以免費索票的賽事到底要怎麼處理？本席建議是不是可以用抽籤或實名制的方式來進行？這樣民眾就不會一直刷票，就是他可能先登記，然後再用電腦抽籤，像之前的動滋券或者是藝FUN券都是以這樣的概念在操作。所以，署長，你覺得這種免費的黃牛票要怎麼遏止？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實剛剛您已經講出答案了，因為我們署內同仁在規劃的過程當中也非常贊同委員的說法，類似HBL賽事的決賽也是非常熱門，我們已經採取實名制，所以這部分我們是希望鼓勵業者在這種非常熱門的賽事，如果是免費索票的話，的確希望能夠輔導他們採實名制的作法。這一次的壓力測試，遠雄集團在發票的過程當中，我們的確沒有想到會這麼的搶手、熱烈，說實在這個現象大概很多年才會出現一次，所以目前我們是鼓勵業者未來臺中如果要開箱的時候，我們會鼓勵用實名制的方式。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以沒有打算要在修法裡面處理？"],["鄭署長世忠：第一個，在懲罰的部分，因為它本身沒有訂票面價，所以它的價值本身的確是沒有其商品價值。那實名制的部分我們其實之前也有規劃過，但是業者他們是比較持保留的態度，因為說實在，運動賽會如果要求民眾提早2個小時到現場去排隊驗證，然後苦等2個小時，說實在可能會造成更大的反彈，所以這部分目前我們是採取鼓勵，但是不強制。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，沒關係，因為我們等一下要修法，要審法案，所以我們那時候再來詳細討論。只是我還是覺得用行政措施來處理這種賽事，要遏止黃牛票，確實也不是一個長久之計啦！沒關係，我們審法案再來談好了。","另外，因為本席是很資深的棒球迷，我想很多球迷也跟本席一樣，我們期待大巨蛋所有軟硬體設施的改進，或者售票機制更加完備等等，我們可以爭取更多知名的國際賽來臺灣比賽，像是日本職棒或者美國大聯盟的海外賽，我想很多球迷都引頸期盼，或者緊接而來的2024世界棒球12強，或是2026的世界棒球經典賽，體育署是不是有計畫要爭取在大巨蛋舉辦？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分我們已經跟棒協開始在研議，爭取12強跟經典賽來臺灣舉辦，特別是到大巨蛋來。"],["林委員宜瑾：OK，因為我們超級期待像大谷翔平或者Aaron Judge可以站在臺北的大巨蛋。","另外，球迷觀賽的體驗，我想也是運動賽事很重要的一環，我在預算提案的時候其實有提到說，臺灣很多現在現有的棒球場，排水設施、照明設施有待改進的地方很多，體育署現在有個球場優化改善專案計畫，我真的很高興看到我們有這樣的計畫，要編3億元來優化所有的球場，包括桃園、包括新莊、臺中洲際，還有我們臺南的亞太國際棒球場，這個計畫要從113年到116年，分4年預算來執行，那我想請教的是，我們臺南的亞太國際棒球場，就是現在開始啟用的少棒球場，從2019年到現在已經4年了，這個優化工程要什麼樣的階段來施工？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上針對臺南亞太國際棒球場，它已經正在施工，也預期明後年可以……"],["林委員宜瑾：這是新的。"],["鄭署長世忠：對，但是我們其實在優化的過程當中……"],["林委員宜瑾：我是說現在已經……"],["鄭署長世忠：已經在同步進行，所以我們在近期已經獲得行政院的核定這項特別預算，已經通知這幾個縣市的體育局先提案做經費的申請，已經在進行當中。"],["林委員宜瑾：瞭解。因為我的理解是說這個優化工程應該是去優化現有的舊的球場。"],["鄭署長世忠：主要是針對觀眾觀賽相關的，比方他的座位席、他的廁所、燈光這方面的為主。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，瞭解。剩下一點時間，請部長。","部長，我想跟你談一下中國的抖音問題。再一個多月就要大選了，很多外媒都關注中國會透過社群平台來介入大選，像中國運用抖音來進行政治宣傳，散布臺灣缺電、缺水、缺疫苗的假訊息，試圖營造臺灣民不聊生的狀況來分化臺灣人民，而且他們也會污名化香港的民主抗爭者，或者稱西方的防疫失靈等等，他們就是要營造一個中國好棒棒的形象，這已經是一個認知作戰。","我想抖音現在是這樣，我們有一篇報導說請來大學教授、中學跟小學老師觀察學生使用抖音的狀況，發現學齡越低使用抖音的比例越高，甚至有老師以小學6年級來進行問卷調查，結果有在使用跟曾經使用抖音的孩子占了四分之三，所以令人擔憂的狀況是說，這種抖音就是能很輕鬆地接受到訊息，不用多費心思，這會讓孩子喪失閱讀跟深度思考的能力，所以這個議題其實……當然我們也很難禁止孩子不能使用抖音，可是我覺得教育部怎麼樣正確教導孩子正確的使用方式跟媒體識讀，你們公布的新版數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書裡面有提到，我們現在要趕快培養近用、行動、反思、創造、分析等等的能力來進行批判性思考。我要請教部長，教育部到底有沒有掌握學生使用抖音或小紅書的動機和使用頻率的相關數據？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，確實抖音對年齡越低的青少年學生有產生負面影響，所以我們除了持續做宣導之外，我也跟委員報告，在7月10號我們也封鎖阻擋，讓他們在中小學不會……當然是在學校，如果在一般其他場所不容易，我們也做了這個動作，也表達學生在學校內是比較不可能去使用到抖音跟小紅書，也做了一些阻擋的效果。另外也跟委員報告，這個確實還是要不斷地宣導，因為網路世界就是無所不在，對於青少年網路內容相關的防護這部分，我們會持續地辦理。","尤其是剛才委員所提到的，我們在數位時代媒體素養的教育白皮書裡面，對於這方面的使用其實是包含在師資的養成過程當中都會特別再提醒，因為我覺得老師能夠適時的……尤其我們的教學現在都全面進入到數位，包含載具、軟體等等的這一些過程，我覺得我們這部分一直都是師培的過程，老師專業培訓的過程一直在特別強調，也有一些內容給老師來參考，我想這個一定還是要全面性的讓孩子能夠對這方面有一個正用，避免使用……所以我想在阻擋的部分，中小學的部分我們做了，後面我們會持續加強來做宣導的工作。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝、謝謝部長。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝部長、謝謝林宜瑾委員的質詢。","再來請張廖萬堅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148875","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148875","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da31059723b8741299166b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322aca9bc7b5eabd6695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:34:32 - 09:46:20","影片長度":"00:11:48","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":708,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:46:20+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:34:32+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":131,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時34分）謝謝主席。各位先進。有請金管會黃主委。"],["主席：黃主委，來。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：主委早。今天的題目有關於IFRS 17的部分，你的報告我讀了一下，你提到我們在115年才要接軌。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：而我看到，這都是你們報告寫的喔！英國、歐盟、加拿大這些國家，包括中國大陸的 A股在112年就接軌了。其他的國家包括泰國、印尼、柬埔寨、斯里蘭卡、菲律賓，這些國家看起來，就是以GDP來講的話，經濟實力比我們差很多的，他們也要114年就接軌，那為什麼我們要115年啊？我們這麼「憨慢」還是怎麼樣，為什麼這樣子啊？可不可以講一下，為什麼我們把時間訂在這麼後面？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實因為我們整個保險業過去累積了很多長期終身高利率的保單，這部分在接軌上會是一個困難，所以……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼困難？資金調度困難？"],["黃主任委員天牧：不是，它那個負債跟利率之間的關係，如果以前用比較高的利率賣保單，如果現在市場的利率是比較低的話，它是一種反向的關係，會增提準備金……"],["賴委員士葆：就是用現在的利率來計價的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，但是現在因為……"],["賴委員士葆：所以那就虧損？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，但是跟委員報告，去年因為美國升息，所以帶動了升息，因此目前對於接軌上相對來講難度低一點。另外一部分，我剛才在報告中說過，因為還有系統的建置等等，這都需要時間。"],["賴委員士葆：是啊！我只是看到你這份報告，我就百思不得其解。當然除了你剛剛講的那個原因，可是那個原因，你現在自己把它補上來了，因為美國利率大幅調升，所以這個難度又降低一點。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：我們怕它倒掉了嘛！就是……"],["黃主任委員天牧：不會倒掉……"],["賴委員士葆：過去虧損太大了，這個我們瞭解，但是我看了以後心裡就是在那裡犯嘀咕啊！我們不如斯里蘭卡，我們不如泰國，我們不如柬埔寨！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，因為……"],["賴委員士葆：這是什麼跟什麼啊！我們還比他們更後面，是怎麼樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：臺灣的保險密度跟滲透度在國際間都是數一數二的……"],["賴委員士葆：是啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是我們的保單成分很多都是儲蓄性質的，而以這種公允價值計價的話，它調整的成本比較大。"],["賴委員士葆：你所謂的公允價值，講大家懂的白話文，就是市價吧？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對、對。"],["賴委員士葆：就是市價嘛！這樣說大家聽懂了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：公允、公允，就是市價。市價來反映，等於IFRS 17是針對壽險公司，是吧？針對壽險公司。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，保險公司的負債。"],["賴委員士葆：好，那就是資產負債通通用市價來……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：比如某一家金控，它有一個壽險，公司現在的帳面價值10塊錢，可是在股市裡面只有8塊，那它賺到啊！是這個意思嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就是用market value去決定你目前的資產跟負債。"],["賴委員士葆：是啊！沒有啦！你還是沒有回答……"],["黃主任委員天牧：用市價，用市價來……"],["賴委員士葆：你還是沒有回答問題，我的重點是要問，你其他那些理由我都沒有意見，我要問的是我們有沒有可能提早一點啦？輸給這些國家，在我覺得，你說輸給英國、歐盟就算了，對不對？大陸A股，我們也輸，當然這個輸贏有沒有意義，我是說早日接軌有沒有意義？請問你。"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實國際財報準則這兩個公報分開去接軌，本來就有一些人有意見，因為資產跟負債應該同時匹配才對，但是它後面的負債比較晚公布，那臺灣的確是因為過去這些老保單的問題，需要比較多的時間去調整，這也是跟公會討論過的結果。"],["賴委員士葆：所以115年確定……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：沒辦法提早？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想目前就是循序漸進地去做，朝這個方向去做。"],["賴委員士葆：好吧！第二題我要問你，最近股市app都當機耶！9月到11月連續三次了，大公司自己開發的app都當機啊！金管會你不要只有開罰，金管有沒有其他作法？就是app當機，現在大家習慣在app上面操作，比如當沖還是幹什麼的話，很靈活、很方便，結果都當機！一當可能幾十分鐘、半個小時，這個東西你除了罰以外，有沒有其他的作法？比如說怎麼樣幫助他們加強資安的問題啊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：跟委員報告，我們的資安……"],["賴委員士葆：被駭客等等啊……"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員的問題非常重要，但是一般來講分兩個層次，交易所本來今年就辦了很多資安的會議，包括券商，金管會本身也有資安行動方案，對券商要求資安，這部分的問題也許就是個案，但是證期局都有密切注意這些問題。"],["賴委員士葆：這個有確實發生嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，局長要說明一下嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：說明一下。"],["張局長振山：我舉個例子，跟委員報告一下，其實我們都有要求，現在你只要停了、有斷、有當機的現象的話，交易所就會去查核它，把系統的問題做一個調整之後改善，才讓它恢復。"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有對它扣分，還是說警告，還是什麼，有沒有？"],["張局長振山：交易所應該會用罰鍰的方式。"],["賴委員士葆：是不是罰錢？"],["張局長振山：對，就是罰錢的方式。"],["賴委員士葆：能不能用另類的，就是棍子要，胡蘿蔔也要，像是1年來都沒有當機過的，就給它表揚一下？秀才人情紙一張，給它一個表揚，金管會蓋個章說你今年都沒有當機，或者怎麼表揚一下，對資安沒有當機的給個認證，可不可以？"],["張局長振山：我覺得沒有當機只是一個normal的狀況，正常的企業應該……"],["賴委員士葆：就是不會有當機的，是不是？"],["張局長振山：不是，我想表達的是，在我們券商的公平待客原則裡面，就要求你本身的內控系統都要做得很好，那之後有好的話，我們就會有表揚，每年我們都會固定表揚。"],["賴委員士葆：有固定表揚？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，局長的意思就是說，其實現在資安就是一種作業上的一些疏失，已經納入公平待客的原則去做評鑑，每年都會做評鑑，所以這個有符合您的期待跟要求。"],["賴委員士葆：好，最後一個我想跟你提一下，現在COP28在世界上正在開會，他們有一個重要的題目，你看題目在簡報中比較靠後面一點。他們要建立國際的交易機制，你們證交所的董事長今天有沒有來？"],["黃主任委員天牧：今天沒有交易所。"],["賴委員士葆：8月7號成立，但是你們只做一個事，只做諮詢，就是你來talk talk，跟你談一談。我就問你明確的，相關的子法什麼時候送來？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，它不是只有做諮詢，大概今年12月22號就開始營業，但它一開始只是把歐洲這些減碳的量跟國內去做撮合，是有在做。"],["賴委員士葆：那個是另外的問題，我等一下問你。現在我是問你，有沒有相關的子法？要不要立子法？"],["黃主任委員天牧：子法應該是環境部的，因為我們成立碳交易所是根據氣候變遷因應法第三十六條去訂定的，所以子法是在環境部那裡。"],["賴委員士葆：在環境部那裡？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：他們大概什麼時候可以出來，你知道嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：會陸續出來，但是現階段，局長要報告一下細節嗎？"],["張局長振山：跟委員報告，有關於我們碳交易所的交易制度，我們也送給環境部來審議，目前已經同意了，所以很快就會對外發布，其他環境保護的這些相關法規，我想環境部本身有其內部的政策……"],["賴委員士葆：現在我跟你講，CBAM歐盟的部分是所有的，包括臺灣，東西賣到歐洲去，一定要有碳權，就是依排碳量多少來課稅，1公噸課你300塊的歐元。國內本來要規範，但是後來沒有確定，我們1噸的碳要課300塊臺幣，但歐盟要課歐元，我們課臺幣，但是現在還沒有實施。","我現在問你一個事，回來剛剛主委講的，你現在交易的對象只有撮合國外的碳權，國外碳權就是兩個概念，比如說現在泰國有碳權要賣給新加坡，在臺灣這裡交易，還是說我台積電或者有個公司到泰國買碳權，來這裡交易，到底什麼情況？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為初步檢查要解決問題是，目前國內很多大企業想買國外的碳權，會到國外的交易所去買，現在就是不須要到國外去買，碳交易所就會引進，比方說合乎國際標準履歷認證過的碳權到臺灣的碳權交易所，供臺灣的大企業去購買。"],["賴委員士葆：所以等於是台積電也不須要跑到國外去買，直接在交易所買就可以了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，不見得是台積電，國內的大企業……"],["賴委員士葆：對啦，我知道，國內大企業。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：但是國內彼此之間的碳權不能交易？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個目前要依照環境部的規範，這個目前不在碳交易所的這個交易架構下。"],["賴委員士葆：那我們現在回過來，我剛剛講COP28有個關鍵的議題是，他們希望建立碳權的國際交易制度，我們現在已經有交易所了，那要怎麼樣交易國際的市場？有沒有想過這個問題？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這就是您指導的地方，也是我們在努力的地方。"],["賴委員士葆：要準備怎麼努力？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就是一步一步加入這種國際的市場。"],["賴委員士葆：國際現在是幾項……因為這樣有點複雜啦！因為它又牽扯到是不是聯合國的會員等等。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，沒錯。"],["賴委員士葆：但是現在有學者提出來了，人家歐美也這樣做了，歐美想要推一個公約推不動，後來改成氣候俱樂部，俱樂部我們就可以加入了，就沒有國的限制啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，謝謝您的提點，我們會朝這個方向去思考。"],["賴委員士葆：這方面的文章很多啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們會去研究。"],["賴委員士葆：你們可以讀一下，因為這個跟你們有關係。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我再跟委員請教。"],["賴委員士葆：看怎麼樣讓我們碳權的交易能夠跟國際接軌？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：否則你從國外引進的也是國際的東西，才比較清楚嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員士葆：但到目前為止都不清楚。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["賴委員士葆：好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接著請郭國文委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1129701_00001"}}},{"id":"148874","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148874","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da377eab1092cbeacee6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03220058b4a0f6ef72a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:28:50 - 09:40:56","影片長度":"00:12:06","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":726,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:40:56+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:28:50+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":334,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時29分）謝謝主席，我們有請潘文忠部長，還有體育署鄭世忠署長。"],["主席：好，有請潘部長跟鄭署長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員早。"],["萬委員美玲：部長早、署長早。最近由中華民國電競運動協會辦的2023星光電競大賞活動，在頒獎典禮上引出了很多的爭議，不管是媒體網路還有全民都非常關心。我想請教一下部長，中華民國電競運動協會辦理這個電競大賞活動，把教育部體育署列為指導單位，事前有沒有問過教育部或體育署？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，就我跟體育署這邊的瞭解……"],["萬委員美玲：今天的時間很短，請你重點回答。"],["潘部長文忠：事前完全沒有徵詢過體育署……"],["萬委員美玲：沒有，好。如果沒有，那這個活動辦得沸沸揚揚的，難道教育部跟體育署完全不知道嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：因為他們沒有知會過體育署，體育署也沒有參與相關的規劃，更沒有經費的補助，所以確實不知道活動的辦理或要邀請哪些人員參與，這個我們確實事前不知道。"],["萬委員美玲：現在這個協會看起來已經把教育部體育署從指導單位直接拿掉了，他們這個動作是體育署去要求的嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：這部分我是不是請署長說明，因為署長跟他們有直接的……"],["萬委員美玲：來，請說。有去要求嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，有。因為他們的確沒有經過我們同意……"],["萬委員美玲：好，有去要求，OK。沒有經過同意，所以你也去要求他拿下來了。好，但是根據本席的瞭解跟調查，這個中華民國電競協會在去年就有辦2022星光電競大賽，這不是第一屆了，這個頒獎典禮其實在當時就已經把教育部體育署列為指導單位了，而且到現在官網上還看得到去年的指導單位就是教育部體育署，所以部長，去年辦這個電競大賽的頒獎典禮時，教育部有同意擔任嗎？去年有沒有？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上我們每年都……因為它不是賽事、也不是培訓……"],["萬委員美玲：那你們去年有沒有同意？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們沒有同意，因為他們也不在我們年度工作計畫裡面。"],["萬委員美玲：所以去年沒有同意，今年也沒有同意，連續2年他們辦的這麼大、辦的沸沸揚揚，甚至可以宣稱辦得非常成功，而您以及整個體育署教育部全部渾然不知，被人家冒用，結論是這樣嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，說實在國內很多運動團體在舉辦活動……"],["萬委員美玲：我只要講這一件事，所以是這樣嗎？你們完全不知道？"],["鄭署長世忠：他們基本上都會希望掛我們體育署，但是我們都一再的宣導，沒有經過同意不可以……"],["萬委員美玲：所以你的意思是，你們沒有可以不可以，任何人要掛都可以掛？"],["鄭署長世忠：不可以，我們已經一再宣導，也行文給各個協會，就是不行。"],["萬委員美玲：所以不可以，那你的意思是，可能還有其他協會也都是這樣冒用的？"],["鄭署長世忠：說實在的，在民間單位的確有這種情況，那我們一再的行文就是不可以。"],["萬委員美玲：署長，這個我們要另外講，如果有這個狀況，這一次發生這麼大的爭議，你們應該要想一個辦法去杜絕這件事情啊！不能沒有作為嘛！"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["萬委員美玲：話又講回來了，如果2023年因為有這個爭議，所以你去告訴他們：請你拿掉。那2022年沒有這個爭議，他們說辦得很成功，你們就概括承受，現在是這樣的意思嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上我們回去還是會請他們拿掉。"],["萬委員美玲：這不需要提醒了吧！對不對？你們應該都要往前看，這還需要本席在這裡提醒嗎？","接下來，部長，針對被冒用，沒有經過你的同意就把教育部放上去，而且請來的頒獎人因為販毒，一審還遭到判刑4年2個月，他自己也承認了，對於教育部一直在做反毒的宣導、反毒的教育，我想這是一個非常諷刺，也非常打臉的一件事情，您生氣嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，第一個，未經得同意就掛指導單位這件事情，我覺得這是非常不尊重主管機關，這部分我會請體育署應該要比我們的要求……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，我的問題非常簡單……"],["潘部長文忠：第二個，我跟委員報告……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，這件事情你生氣嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：當然覺得非常不適當啊！"],["萬委員美玲：非常不適當，你生氣嗎？對於他這樣的作為。"],["潘部長文忠：不是啊！委員，因為他是他們的主規劃……"],["萬委員美玲：不，部長，您的態度非常重要，你身為教育部的部長，他們這樣的作法，你會生氣嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：就是非常不適當啊！"],["萬委員美玲：他們不適當，那所以你會譴責嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個我們已經很嚴正的表達……"],["萬委員美玲：表達什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：任何運動賽會絕對不能跟毒品掛勾。"],["萬委員美玲：所以他們這樣的冒用，並且請來這麼不適當的人來做頒獎人，你沒有嚴正譴責、也沒有生氣？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，我剛才已經表達了……"],["萬委員美玲：表達什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：而且我們……"],["萬委員美玲：你表達什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，就是我們絕對禁止跟毒品有掛勾嘛！直接就是跟……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，我想您個人身為教育部的部長，對於有體育團體冒用教育部體育署的名義，造成體育署名譽受損，同時又請來了一位違背教育部在做反毒宣導、反毒教育宗旨的頒獎人，他本身就是一個販毒的人，而您卻沒有一個態度。我們來看，這樣子算起來，經濟部真的比你有guts多了！","一樣就在今年9月份，經濟部有一個2023臺北世貿秋季加盟展，當時也是遭到世和電廠冒名為指導單位，經濟部二話不說就去提告妨礙名譽了。我請教一下，您既不生氣，也只有做個說明，那連提告應該都不會吧？你會捍衛你的名譽去提告嗎？會不會？"],["潘部長文忠：因為昨天，署長親自對外說明，我想這個過程其實就表達非常清楚，政府的立場……"],["萬委員美玲：什麼立場？"],["潘部長文忠：就是反毒啊！"],["萬委員美玲：那對於這件被冒用的事情，你會比照經濟部去提告嗎？會不會？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我覺得體育署應該要有一個很明確的規範，如果未來……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，你會不會去提告嘛？"],["潘部長文忠：因為剛才署長已經說明了，過去這些……"],["萬委員美玲：說明？會不會去提告嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：過去這些團體非常的多。"],["萬委員美玲：好。部長，今天本席對您非常、非常地失望，第一個，你沒有嚴正抗議他們冒用體育署的名義；第二個，對於他們請販毒的人來擔任嘉賓，嚴重違反教育部反毒的立場，你也沒有提出嚴正的抗議、譴責和嚴厲的處置；第三個，你也沒有比照經濟部的做法，對於冒用教育部的名義，為捍衛自己的名譽而去提告。以上你全部沒有做！","我想請教一下，因為本席看到該協會的簡介當中提到，這個電競協會是教育部體育署和中華奧會唯一指定電競事務委辦的單位，所有賽事從107年起，不管賽事推廣、出國等等，我們都有給它補助，從107年到112年，補助經費不斷增加，從100萬到現在將近300萬。根據媒體報導，這個協會的理事長叫做蕭政豪，他似乎與許多背景雄厚的綠營大咖有非常不錯的關係。媒體這樣報導之後，相關評論當然就沸沸揚揚，事情越滾越大。這個人在110年擔任電競協會的理事長，之後所有補助金額就翻倍，是不是因為他有背景，所以部長今天的態度才這麼消極？既不嚴正譴責，又只給予適當處置，而適當處置可能只是去個電話，請他拿下來，而且是拿下來今年的，去年的、前年的，完全沒有往前面去看，完全不像一個教育部長去捍衛被別人傷害到的教育部名譽，以及我們反毒立場被侵害的權益。","我們也看到，其實2021年電競大賽蔡英文總統就有幫忙拍攝宣傳影片，體育署從過去每年補助該協會一百多萬，110年後直接翻倍到了245萬。我想，是不是因為真的有這樣的背景，所以您不敢辦？但是我所認識的教育部是為了幫學生爭取教育權益，所有同仁都在努力，我們不希望因為部長有一些您個人的思維、看法或壓力，抹煞了大家不管是我們辦活動也好，不管是我們禁止其他協會這樣冒用體育署的名義、傷害體育署的名譽，以及過去我們特教司同仁對於反毒這麼認真。你要知道喔！今天這個協會除了是我們跟中華奧會唯一指定的電競事務委辦單位，既然是委辦，我們對它就有監督、就有應該要有的處罰。而且，部長，它還跟我們國內73所大專院校、62所高中職合作啊！你知道這對孩子影響有多大？我們反毒都來不及了！我們反毒的預算在編、反毒的工作一直在做，可是今天這件事情的影響呢？您知道我們請來的嘉賓或代言人對於我們想要訴求的團體或對象都有很大的影響，為何潘文忠部長今天的態度如此軟弱？可以說明一下嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，這個跟政治無關，只跟我們政府支持電競選手有關，因為參加的是今年亞運，所以相關的經費我們是全力支持電競選手，不是支持這個協會，也跟政治無關。第二點，我也跟委員報告，他今天舉辦的是自己規劃的表揚活動，而不是電競的競賽活動，這麼多相關團體，他們在自主規劃的過程當中，教育部確實不會瞭解它的細節，而他自己也非常清楚的對國人道歉，聘了一個不適當的頒獎人員。他是自主規劃，也聲明對國人的歉意，我想這是他們自己的立場。教育部在第一時間已經非常嚴正地表達，對這樣的活動，因為不是我們自主規劃，我們只能很清楚地說，電子競技運動是一個非常重要、支持國人、支持選手的活動，我們應該給予最大的支持，但絕對不能跟這些毒品什麼的有關，這就是政府最大的立場，所以……"],["萬委員美玲：好，部長，我想……"],["潘部長文忠：所以我想跟委員報告，這個跟政治毫無關係啦！如果委員剛才……"],["萬委員美玲：部長、部長……"],["潘部長文忠：委員剛才一路說它從一百多萬到兩百多萬，難道委員覺得電競選手不應該支持他們嗎？"],["萬委員美玲：部長啊！本席要講這一句之前早就知道你會扣帽子了！我……"],["潘部長文忠：不是扣帽子，是因為……"],["萬委員美玲：我告訴你……"],["潘部長文忠：是因為委員不瞭解那個過程啊！"],["萬委員美玲：本席跟大家一樣，都非常支持電競產業，電競產業的發展未來要給予預算和補助，我完全贊成……"],["潘部長文忠：剛才說的經費就是這個過程，跟政治無關……"],["萬委員美玲：但是呢？我想……"],["潘部長文忠：也從來沒有因為長官交代應該給這個協會找經費……"],["主席：兩位，時間已經超過2分鐘了。"],["萬委員美玲：部長，今天的重點不是讓你來扣帽子的，而是發生這樣的事情，部長……"],["潘部長文忠：不是啦！委員，你一直在誤解這個經費，一直在跟政治扯上關係，我不認同！"],["萬委員美玲：部長應該要拿出你的態度來！"],["潘部長文忠：我的態度就是不應該跟政治掛鉤！"],["萬委員美玲：不管是您嚴正的譴責……"],["主席：已經超過時間了，請兩位……"],["萬委員美玲：沒有聽到你的嚴正譴責，也沒有聽到你要去提告，你只有簡簡單單做了適當的處理，你的態度是軟弱的，而且還要給質詢的人扣帽子，說……"],["主席：萬美玲委員，時間已經到了……"],["萬委員美玲：說我們不支持電競產業，這樣是不對的！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，您把體育、運動和政治掛鉤，我不太認同啦！就是體育署給一個經費……"],["萬委員美玲：我告訴你啦！這次這件事情全民都看到部長沒有一個嚴正的譴責……"],["主席：萬委員，時間到了，請停止發言。"],["萬委員美玲：你也沒有為捍衛教育部的權利提告，所以你的態度非常軟弱，你還要給本席扣帽子！我告訴您，我比你更支持電競產業，但是……"],["主席：萬委員，時間到了。"],["萬委員美玲：但是看不起你這麼軟弱的態度！"],["潘部長文忠：委員啊！就經費的部分，我不認為你完全瞭解，謝謝。"],["主席：請兩位尊重主席。"],["萬委員美玲：你的態度非常軟弱啦！全民都在看，網路對你也有非常多的撻伐啦！"],["主席：時間到了！萬委員，時間到了，好嗎？請大家尊重主席好嗎？"],["萬委員美玲：請部長也要尊重主席啊！"],["主席：兩位都尊重，我說「大家」。謝謝。","好，請林宜瑾委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-22-11","speakers":["范雲","蘇巧慧","莊瑞雄","萬美玲","林宜瑾","張廖萬堅","黃國書","陳靜敏","鄭麗文","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張其祿","吳思瑤","李貴敏","王婉諭","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","劉世芳"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健\n康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增\n訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四\n條之一條文草案」案、(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四 ) 委員莊瑞雄等16 人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員萬美\n玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案、(七)委\n員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(八)委員張廖萬堅\n等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具\n「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業\n發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例\n增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二\n十四條之一條文草案」案、(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之\n一條文草案」案、(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草\n案」案、(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、\n(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十七)委員劉\n櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案、(十八)委員余天等17人\n擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1129701_00002"}}},{"id":"148873","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148873","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da34ff06ba3f7a2fd0766b70907318610e7c986728e607a0322a584b8aae4e4ec475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:24:24 - 09:34:20","影片長度":"00:09:56","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":596,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:34:20+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:24:24+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":93,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時24分）主席，麻煩請金管會黃主委。"],["主席：黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["吳委員秉叡：主委早，要跟你講一個我最近看到的消息，就是美國眾議院外交委員會在今年11月28號全票通過，這個全票是39位出席的議員全部贊成，39比0，反對的議員是0，要去檢討香港經濟貿易辦事處的認證法，所謂檢討就是把它的特殊地位拿掉。當然這只是眾議院的外交委員會，下一步就是要進到眾議院，如果美國的眾議院跟參議院都照這樣通過之後，香港在華盛頓、在紐約、在舊金山的三個經貿辦事處恐怕會關閉，因為它失去特殊地位了，不再有這樣的外交跟經濟的特殊地位，會失去一切特殊待遇，包括獨立關稅的地位會沒有了，獨立關稅地位沒有了，就是回到它就是一個中國的城市，也就是說香港百年來的轉口貿易，對美國就行不通了，香港所有的貨物都必須要照美國對中國課的關稅繳稅，對美國而言，它不再是一個獨立的關稅領域。再來就是它過去還有一個技術轉讓的特殊待遇也沒有了，最嚴重的是它在1983年10月17號開始的聯繫匯率制度結束，就是美元跟港元的自由兌換將要終結了。當然現在只是第一步，但是美國的國會加上美國現在的氛圍，這個通過有它的可能性，所以當這個自由兌換要結束的時候，香港人怎麼辦呢？當然就是拋港元搶美金啊！這個就是為什麼最近香港的股市跌跌不休，現在已經跌到一萬六千多，上個禮拜才被台股超過，現在已經是低於台股1,000點了，高點從三萬三掉到現在剩下一萬六千多。過去我一直請教你，如果香港有巨變的時候，到底金管會對臺灣這麼多的金融機構，因為過去就是走世界潮流，把香港當作是一個特殊的地方，我們在那邊有很多的投資跟很多的暴險，如果美國採取這樣的態度之後，我們有沒有什麼因應的方案？或是現在要預想，假設這個事情半年後或一年後成真，怎麼辦？有沒有先預想這些事情？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，第一、我要非常感謝您分享這麼重要的資訊，我原來不知道，謝謝您告訴我。第二、這事情應該分兩個層面來說明，就是法律層面跟國安層面，因為目前我們跟香港、澳門的關係是由港澳人民關係條例去規範，這部分會定位我們跟它的關係，這要由陸委會或國安單位去決定。至於您關心實體金融面的部分，坦白說這幾年我們除了對大陸的暴險，我們關心之外，我們對香港金融機構的暴險也在關心，而且也跟他們瞭解他們在香港繼續發展的風險管理。所以這些我們有做，但是當然在這個場域，我大概就是不能講得太細。"],["吳委員秉叡：是，主委，我再跟你描述一個狀況，當這個事情如果真的成真，港元不是只有搶兌美金而已，能兌換的都會兌換，因為港元以後就是跟美元脫鉤了嘛，以後也不能自由兌換，所以可能就會馬上有跟其他地方兌換的問題，當然我們這個不是一個很大的管道，但是也可能趕快兌換臺幣，然後趕快再由臺幣要轉兌換成其他的貨幣，因為要跑掉啊！如果這個成真，你可以想像香港的資金絕對是大量的出逃，留在那邊幹嘛？就是「潤」啊，就跑啦！跑了之後才能夠維持啊，如果還留在那邊就是等死啊！香港就是一個這麼大的地方。有人以前就在問為什麼共產黨早年不把香港收回，他說因為要留下一個對世界對接的櫥窗，是只有習近平太傻，在香港雨傘革命之後用反送中法案讓香港失去了經濟櫥窗的地位，然後美中關係不斷的惡化，弄到美國國會現在一步一步的把過去給你的這些權利都收回，眼看這樣香港有可能變成一個跟過去我們所知道的香港是完全不一樣的地位跟狀況，我希望我們金管會這邊真的要好好地構思，萬一發生這樣的狀況，而且我認為這個「萬一」是有可能會發生的，不是以前講一講的時候距離還很遠，現在是一步一步在接近喔！這個要先想好，不然的話，萬一出現緊急的狀況，可能我們應變會來不及。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，謝謝您的指導，我們有在思考這些問題，謝謝。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，再來要請教跟今天有關的就是保險業的資金，收入其實是每年累積，但是這兩、三年有注意到它的淨收益率逐年在下滑，你知不知道這樣的狀況？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就是保費的成長不像以前那麼快，那當然……"],["吳委員秉叡：不是，保費成長，但是保險公司要拿保費去投資啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：那個投資，以前你投資的收益還有4%、4.5%，這兩年降到剩下3.6%、3.2%。"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為匯損的部分，這部分對它來講是一個大的影響。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以你認為這是短期現象，而不是一個長期現象，譬如美國的利率如果降了，這些東西可以緩解，你的意思是這樣嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：利率的升降都各有得失，但是去年那樣子突然地升息那麼高，的確評價上對保險公司有一些影響，對金融業都有影響。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，上次在這邊請教您的時候，也是問到現在因為避險、為了匯率嘛……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：為了利率避險的成本這麼地高，每一年光是避險成本就花掉幾千億啊！這個有什麼方式是可以稍微降的嗎？有沒有什麼樣的方法？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實跟委員報告，短期內當然透過避險策略或外匯價格變動準備金，可是實體的問題是在於保險業因為國內沒有比較深跟廣的固定收益市場，必須投資美國，所以就是要承受匯率的波動。如果商品結構改成不要那麼多透過利差的收益，而是都有死差、費差的話，這個依賴就會降低。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以如果照這樣來講的話，有沒有可能在臺灣多一些穩健可以投資的標的，讓這一些資金可以投資，就不用那麼高的比例要到美國去？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有。委員，這件事我們過去也謝謝財委會各位委員的指導，包括我們對保險法、對公共建設這方面給保險公司比較多的空間，包括也許下個會期審查投信投顧法，對於REITs的部分固定收益的商品，能夠讓保險公司多投資。我們也會檢討相關對於創投或私募基金這些相關投資標的，讓保險公司留在國內有更多投資標的。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，但是因為保險公司就金融來講，它的量體是非常地大啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：一方面也要擔心如果在臺灣都增加這麼多投資的話，會不會使得我們的一些產品，譬如住房什麼東西的繼續跟著高漲？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想保險公司不會去投資那個住的，它一定是商辦。另外國內現在有很多替代能源產業，六大核心戰略產業，這些都可以投資。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以我的意思是說那些產業要挑過，不能讓……"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["吳委員秉叡：也不是說我們就一概全部都開放喔！"],["黃主任委員天牧：要有……"],["吳委員秉叡：因為現在社會的問題也是很多面向啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：要有穩定現金流量的、有固定收益的。"],["吳委員秉叡：好。最後再請教一個問題，就是金融評議中心，它承接了非常多的案子，前幾年因為疫情的關係，當然有保單的一些問題，所以它很忙，使得很多因為金融糾紛而要去金融評議中心請求協助評議的案子，時間上有所delay、有所拖延。那如何讓它的效率能夠增加，讓現在已經發生的這些金融糾紛也可以得到紓解跟救濟的管道，這個也是要努力的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我們會請新任的杜董事長特別努力，我們會強化督導。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，加油！"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導。"],["吳委員秉叡：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，各位請回。","接著請賴士葆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 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17），為了達成接軌的目標，保險業會面臨比較高風險的資本計算，請問主委，協助保險業接軌過程中最常遇到業者反映的困難到底是什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：主要就是在民國90年以前我們賣了很多高利率保單而且都是終身的，這部分以現在的制度計算，對他們來講在資本上或轉換上需要比較多的努力。針對這部分我們已經在11月23號做了一些寬緩措施，未來還會進一步有下一階段的措施，可能明年會陸續公布。"],["林委員德福：主委，因為你也曾經說過金管會考量業者努力的程度與國情的差異，在相關係數與接軌整個條件上讓保險業能夠平穩來接軌，請問這樣差別化的接軌模式真的符合國際準則嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，因為整個接軌每個國家都一樣，國際的標準必須也要考慮到國情，所以一定也允許有在地化跟過渡化的措施，我們會考量業者努力的程度做一些差異化的管理。"],["林委員德福：對於這些落後一般接軌標準的業者，未來金管會是不是也會要求限期趕上目標？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我們要看個案的情況，每個保險公司本身過去的情況跟現在的情況都不太一樣，我們會考慮個別公司的情況予以個別的監理。"],["林委員德福：主委，據瞭解基於國內長期投資工具有限，壽險公司的資金往投報率較高的海外市場來發展是常態，但是國際資本市場劇烈的波動，整個風險相對也比較高，再加上匯兌損益起伏也讓壽險公司的獲利及資本面臨不小的壓力，從115年開始將接軌IFRSs 17與ICS2.0，對壽險公司的經營恐怕又是壓力山大，請問主委，你認為接軌IFRSs 17與ICS2.0後壽險業經營投資海外市場方面到底有沒有需要注意或調整的地方？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，您的問題非常非常重要，這也是為什麼我們要接軌的目的，因為過去我們的保單比較類似儲蓄性質的，將來會以死差跟費差為主、為利源的結構，所以我覺得這部分商品結構的改變，會改變我們保險公司的競爭力。"],["林委員德福：對，匯兌損益是影響獲利重要的原因，請問主委，你認為壽險公司要如何及時掌握國內外金融情勢變化的能力呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想資產負債管理跟商品結構的調整都很重要。"],["林委員德福：對於匯率避險，國內壽險公司是不是都能夠掌握策略上的因應？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們有外匯價格變動準備金制度，壽險業本身也會有外匯避險的策略，我想這部分會齊頭並進。"],["林委員德福：好，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：好，謝謝，各位請回。","接著請吳秉叡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-19","speakers":["費鴻泰","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李貴敏","鍾佳濱","曾銘宗","張其祿","林楚茵","沈發惠","羅明才","高嘉瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-06"],"gazette_id":"1129701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財\n務報導準則（IFRS 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112年度及130年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預算案全部審查完略。七、本會主審中華民國130年度專政部總預算案供應預算及非營業基金預算部分均應審查完略。有關證識別稅出預算隨同以上"},{"start":2149.919,"end":2168.454,"text":"機關別審查結果調整,明據審查報告含附財政委員會審查結果需交由黨團協商,任意討論時,由正召集委員立文補充說明,宣布完畢。請問各位委員,上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處?"},{"start":2170.223,"end":2189.547,"text":"因為在場委員未達議決人數三人,議事錄暫不確定。今天的議程有兩項。第一項,邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形進行專題報告．並備質詢。二、審查運動產業發展條例相關草案共十八案。"},{"start":2197.068,"end":2218.525,"text":"adequ 1、審查行政院函請審議運動產業相關發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案。adequ 2、審查委員洪孟楷等。adequ 3、審查委員蘇曉慧等。adequ 4、審查委員莊瑞雄等。adequ 5、審查委員江永昌等。adequ 6、審查委員萬美玲等。adequ 7、審查委員廖國棟等。"},{"start":2219.125,"end":2239.304,"text":"八、張亮萬堅等九、林一金等五、吳思瑤等十一、陳秀寶等十二、蘇志芬等十三、沈發慧等十四、黃國書等十五、陳廷飛等十六、時代力量黨團十七、劉兆豪等十八、余天等"},{"start":2241.513,"end":2266.319,"text":"進行詢答及逐條審查首先我們介紹在場委員其次介紹與會官員我們在場委員有萬敏玲委員莊瑞雄委員蘇巧慧委員謝謝我們在場的官員有教育部部長潘文忠文化部影視及流行音樂發展司副司長呂美麗"},{"start":2268.945,"end":2293.593,"text":"文創發展司專門委員王定亞法務部法治司調部辦事檢察官謝佑雲內政部警政署刑事警察局警政監鄭洪志行政院消費者保護處副處長陳興宏行政院消費者保護處消費者保護官曾盈建"},{"start":2295.65,"end":2312.284,"text":"數位發展部數位產業署副組長莊育志科長黃興富現在我們請提案委員進行提案說明請問哪一位委員要說明蘇巧慧委員先"},{"start":2320.68,"end":2349.609,"text":"主席、各位同仁2023年亞洲棒球錦標賽上週日在台北大巨蛋開賽這也是台北大巨蛋取得使用執照後的第一個正式國際賽事吸引不少球迷關注然而包含本次賽事以及日前所舉辦的測試賽相關票券開賣及搶購或索取一空但也查獲部分不法人士販售黃牛票牟利影響國人關賽之權益甚巨因此修正相關法規卻有必要"},{"start":2350.229,"end":2363.943,"text":"今天教育文化委員會排審運動產業發展條例的修正案在行政院今年九月提出版本前本席已於去年十二月為立法院首位也是唯一同時提出《文化創意產業發展法》《運動產業發展條例醫療法修正案》等打擊黃牛三法"},{"start":2370.309,"end":2391.442,"text":"參照行政院版本本席對運動產業發展條例修正案意見有三。第一,國民體育法第五條第一項政府應保障人民平等使用運動設施及參與體育活動之權利。依此精神政府應保障民眾參與或觀賞運動競技或表演之權益而防治黃牛則是政府保障其觀賞權益的作為之一。"},{"start":2392.683,"end":2416.076,"text":"同上政府保障民眾參與運動競技或表演之權益於本法第十二條培養國民運動習慣並振興運動產業精神相似故建議增訂條次於第十二條之一第三令無論是本席或行政院所提版本若不法人士販售之票券為免費索取則無法依增訂條文第二項給予罰款故本席將提出修正動議若販賣免費票券"},{"start":2418.357,"end":2434.327,"text":"若販賣免費索取支票券則按票券章數除每張票販售金額之十倍至五十倍的罰款以上為提案說明 懇請各位委員支持指教 謝謝好 謝謝蘇巧慧委員的說明我們請莊瑞雄委員說明"},{"start":2440.63,"end":2460.889,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們列席的官員還有媒體朋友大家早安這個黃牛一直是大部分國人身痛惡絕的一個行為藉由這個烘台票價為自己來磨砺卻嚴重去影響到整個票價市場的合理的運作一個秩序對於產業的一個發展跟消費者的權益都是一種傷害"},{"start":2461.71,"end":2484.715,"text":"那在上半年我們討論如何杜絕黃流的現象在立法還是修法社會有不同的一個面向的一個看法最後捨棄了另立專法改為各項目的一個主管機關分別立法在演唱會、表演藝術領域及由文化部來進行文化產業發展法的一個修法當時本席也提出了運動產業發展條例的一個修法也召開了記者會"},{"start":2485.555,"end":2495.878,"text":"呼籲這個整個黃牛票不只是藝文的一個領域連體育賽事也非常的多比如說這個前幾年直棒球星彭卓銘的影隊賽一張門票動輒喊到頗上萬元而今年的一個經典賽我們看到還有直籃前NBA的球星出賽的賽事同樣都有猖獗的一個黃牛在紅台票價那對於體育運動產業來講黃牛的行為將導致球迷的權益受損"},{"start":2514.204,"end":2529.625,"text":"也導致賽事周邊經濟沒有辦法活絡更是去吸引更多新球迷投入的一個機會可惜儘管這個五月份的時候本區議會呼籲要求一併進行修法還是擱置到現在才開始進行修法的一個工程我們期待"},{"start":2530.566,"end":2556.222,"text":"朝野委員共同支持今天運動產業發展條例的修法有鑒於文化創意產業修法以後施行的部分狀況例如黃牛改以買藝術品或付票券的方式來規避新法的規範該如何引以為鑒導入這次修法更增完整大家一同努力維護票券市場的合理運作保障消費者的權益促進體育運動產業的發展謝謝大家"},{"start":2565.289,"end":2588.094,"text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的說明我們現在在場有到三人請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處沒有 那我們議事錄確定我們繼續進行提案說明林益菁委員或是萬美玲委員有沒有要針對提案說明沒有 好 謝謝那我們現在請潘部長進行報告時間12分鐘"},{"start":2599.825,"end":2623.701,"text":"主席、各位委員、大家早今天應邀列席大院教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議針對我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形來進行專題報告以及審議運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案"},{"start":2624.521,"end":2638.294,"text":"在此跟委員做口頭的報告那詳細的書面資料再請委員來參考指教首先就2024年巴黎奧運在相關面向上面的整備來跟委員做說明"},{"start":2640.336,"end":2662.997,"text":"二零二四年奧林匹克運動會是在二零二四年七月二十六日到八月十一日在法國的巴黎來舉行。總共有三十二個運動種類,計有三百二十九面的金牌。本屆賽事在參賽資格取得規定,有客觀的參賽標準,還有世界奧運積分排名以及參加奧運會的資格賽等。"},{"start":2665.859,"end":2674.45,"text":"那目前在有關巴黎奧運的備戰的情形那本部體育署輔導國家運動中心單項協會做好2024巴黎奧運之培訓參賽作業那麼目前選手也正在積極爭取"},{"start":2683.38,"end":2700.009,"text":"參賽的資格以及巴黎奧運災經奪牌目前備戰的情形說明如下參賽的目標當然希望能夠爭取最多參賽資格的名額也能夠超越歷屆參賽成績作為我們的目標那在"},{"start":2701.411,"end":2707.915,"text":"有關培訓的這部分到112年12月6日值目前我們有12個運動種類的培訓隊選手有198位的選手正在培訓當中那麼遴選13個運動種類選手有75位"},{"start":2719.382,"end":2743.03,"text":"黃金計畫的精英選手進行客製化的專案培訓計畫也成立了專責輔導的小組協助選訓賽輔工作全力支援選手能提升競技實力跟參賽的成績也輔導協會在該培訓隊召開座談及早了解到教練跟選手訓練上的需求以完備後勤的支援那麼依照國際單項運動總會"},{"start":2745.051,"end":2759.65,"text":"所訂的資格賽及排名賽程規劃選手來參賽那麼到113年6月底能夠全力的爭取我國最多參賽資格名額的種類如舉重、羽球、柔道、體操"},{"start":2760.371,"end":2777.598,"text":"桌球、拳擊、網球、高爾夫球等。那麼到目前為止到12月6日為止那麼我國已經取得6個運動種類共有16席的參賽的席次那麼目前選手也都在正在積極參與各項資格賽的相關的過程"},{"start":2781.559,"end":2809.1,"text":"那麼針對備戰巴黎奧運那麼我們在後勤資源考察的部分也在今年4月15到23日前往法國巴黎實地的考察收集規劃後勤資源相關的工作競賽場館籌辦進度跟一地訓練所需要的相關資訊那麼未來在明年的1月13到21號也會前往法國巴黎實地的進行考察收集運動競賽場地的現況包含"},{"start":2811.983,"end":2830.26,"text":"選手村也會拜會巴黎奧運籌備會瞭解籌備的進度跟最新的資訊另外在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康整備方面也跟委員報告在性別平等方面推動男女平等是一個國際運動發展的一個趨勢經濟運動也積極在配合推動2024年巴黎奧運會的目標"},{"start":2837.226,"end":2853.113,"text":"以達到性別平等作為一個目標在32個運動種類難以拆散選手分別是5250人各佔一半為了消除對婦女一切形式歧視公約第十條規範婦女在教育方面享有跟"},{"start":2854.734,"end":2865.491,"text":"男子同樣平等的權利就國家競賽競技運動而言也賦予男女在參加運動跟體育的基礎上有相同的機會那麼國家競技運動選手培訓選訓服選訓服獎"},{"start":2869.978,"end":2898.123,"text":"的相關的政策也是依照國際賽事的規則那麼制定男女相同的領選標準提供男女相同的培訓的資源像散速、訓練器材、場地也給予男女相同的參賽的機會建構男女相同的輔導措施如運科及後勤資源、就業輔導等也設置男女相同的獎勵制度以上措施都是為了要能夠確保女性跟男性"},{"start":2899.443,"end":2913.587,"text":"你現在男女平等基礎上有相同的權利也符合吸斗的精神那本部體育署為了推動特定團體選訓委員會的組成符合性別平等原則那麼在112年7月20夜含之44個亞奧運特定體育團體目前24個亞奧運特定團體"},{"start":2923.745,"end":2947.138,"text":"選訓委員任意性別委員要達已經達三分之一以上那除達成情形也將至113年起我們納入工作計畫補助款的增減來做一個參考未來希望能朝向性別比例是一比一的目標來推動以提升決策過程或相關選訓輔的過程能夠確保性別平等那本部提議署也輔導中華奧會"},{"start":2948.739,"end":2972.707,"text":"能提升女性參與決策階層依該會會章第九條的規定委員的組成應盡量符合國際奧會女性委員名額原則中華奧會上設有10個特色委員會總計135位委員其中男性93位女性42位女性佔比是31%因其主任委員及委員屬任命性質"},{"start":2974.227,"end":2988.484,"text":"本部提議書也將輔導中華奧會循國際奧會的模式優先達成特定委員會男女比例可以達到1比1的這樣的一個標準在運動科學方面國性中心跟國家運動科學中心"},{"start":2990.106,"end":3014.256,"text":"目前已經做好相關的分工模式那國訓中心運動科學處分為運科組及醫護組以六大領域來執行運科配合運科中心成立那麼依實務應用及研發規劃來作為兩個中心在任務屬性上的一個主要的區隔那麼屬於運科實務應用資源就由國訓中心"},{"start":3015.736,"end":3040.904,"text":"運動科學處來負責。屬於原發規劃則由運科中心來負責。那麼運科中心也會支援巴黎奧運的相關整備情形。那麼在科學化設備以及技術協助前級選手像林玉婷的訓練檢測以電子設備來搭配前級沙袋架設透過分析對手移動習慣等套用至沙袋移動的軌跡。"},{"start":3042.305,"end":3045.572,"text":"像組成專責的醫療小組針對跆拳道選手羅嘉玲體操選手李子凱現階段運動的傷害協助其傷勢的治療傷後訓練"},{"start":3053.616,"end":3075.675,"text":"體能恢復等來提供完整的分析跟照護資源那麼針對賽事期間因應選手賽事安排的需求也會以國立屏東科大合作開發富含必需營養素質配料包中西式小點心提供選手以比賽期間及時飲食恢復的補給品那麼有關在國慶中心規劃巴黎奧運中繼站資源的規模"},{"start":3079.099,"end":3094.116,"text":"預計擴大中繼站資源規模提供一站式的運科資源服務模式讓選手可以更方便快速的獲得各項運科的協助中繼站除了循網利安排我們的專用的廚師來烹調台灣家鄉口味的餐食之外"},{"start":3099.562,"end":3112.168,"text":"也能夠即時的提供熱食服務近期也開始來洽詢真空條理包等等的相關事務那麼規劃運動科學資源服務包含在恢復室提供高壓氧倉恢復設備、氣壓室恢復設備、疲勞檢測"},{"start":3117.11,"end":3132.578,"text":"這個恢復在營養與心理的諮詢方面提供賽事營養補給、勤收與運動競賽心理諮商的服務在運動員心理健康方面運動人心理人員系協助運動員在訓練當中協助並評估運動員心理狀態並回饋給教練跟選手例行性的資源包括個人諮詢"},{"start":3139.381,"end":3155.499,"text":"或實施團體課程協助運動員增強心理素質提升運動的表現。國性中心的運動心理人員目前為7人並有另聘諮商心理師運動心理人員依倫理守則若評估運動員有必要轉介"},{"start":3155.999,"end":3181.739,"text":"也考量心理諮商及個人的意願跟隱私經過選手同意後來協助轉介那麼針對巴黎奧運會進行時的運動人力支援人力將配合賽會代表團的支援總額規定以及我國代表團的任務編組需求支援組成情形來適當的編派如果受限於整個總額規定那無法列入代表團"},{"start":3182.339,"end":3206.182,"text":"也將會列入後勤中繼站來做即時的支援第二部分跟委員報告是就運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文以及我們草野各委員黨團總共十七案的部分來跟委員做說明首先跟委員報告因為之前謝謝大院這邊"},{"start":3207.483,"end":3231.652,"text":"對於有關在《文化創意產業發展法》當時的相關的審議也有一些明確的結果也經總統公佈。那麼因此在這方面教育部在這裡我也跟委員報告這個整個目前我們除了院版之外也看過17位委員的提案跟黨團的這個提案那我也跟委員做一個統整的報告"},{"start":3232.392,"end":3247.201,"text":"那麼這個多位委員跟黨團所提的相關條文草案在這裡也特別表示對委員跟運動產業發展的支持表示最大的感謝那麼考量運動賽事或活動票券加價販售問題跟"},{"start":3249.403,"end":3264.016,"text":"總統已經公布五月三十一號公布的經大院三讀公布的文化創意產業發展法所訂的藝文活動票件加價出售相關的規範處罰等規定事項本質是相當一致那麼因此呢本部在這個相關的"},{"start":3266.318,"end":3290.319,"text":"院版的條文裡面也實質參考比照文化創意產業發展法第十條之一的條文的規定擬據《運動產業發展條例增訂二十四條之一》的相關的條文那跟委員報告目前就本部對委員及黨團所提的草案回應說明在詳細的部分請委員來參考書面的資料那麼針對委員張耀萬堅等18位"},{"start":3292.481,"end":3313.894,"text":"委員、委員林毅錦等十六位委員、委員黃國書等十六位委員及時代力量黨團領據《運動產業發展條例增訂二十四條之一條文》等四案以行政院版方向跟內容一致本部競表贊同建議能夠並同行政院版來審查第二部分是針對委員洪孟楷等十六位委員、委員張瑞雄等十六位委員、委員張"},{"start":3314.814,"end":3317.418,"text":"廖國棟等 委員吳思堯等 委員陳秀寶等 委員蘇志芬等 委員沈發慧等 委員陳廷飛等 委員劉兆豪等 委員"},{"start":3329.485,"end":3359.185,"text":"委員宜天等十七位所擬據的相關條文以及委員蘇曉慧等二十位委員擬據《運動產業發展條例增訂十二條之一條文》委員江永昌等十八位委員擬據《運動產業發展條例增訂十七條之一條文草案》及委員萬美玲等十六位委員擬據《運動產業發展條例第二十四條之一》及《二十四條之二》等十三案各委員版本大致內容跟行政院版方向一致本部競表贊同"},{"start":3359.585,"end":3366.75,"text":"那部分的內容可能在條文的條次、立法的用詞、處罰、行為樣態、加價販售範圍排除行為人取得票件之必要、費用、罰款額度再販之處罰、處罰預備加價等等相關的這個部分"},{"start":3377.356,"end":3398.166,"text":"為了能夠跟相關的事項以行政院版保障民眾觀賞運動賽會跟活動的權益確保賽事來進行能夠讓票件正常流通我想這個目標都一致那相關的部分建議能夠併同行政院版的時候我們再請委員來指教那也參考文化部之前所公布的"},{"start":3398.626,"end":3403.088,"text":"這個文化創意產業發展法讓民眾在依循的時候可以比較有一致性的規範我想這部分這裡特別跟委員來做報告那最後謝謝我們朝野黨團各位委員那麼對於這樣議題的關心而且也能夠有很具體的提案我們希望今天能夠在大院的支持之下我們盡快完成這個條文以杜絕"},{"start":3424.66,"end":3424.801,"text":"謝謝各位,謝謝。"},{"start":3438.821,"end":3462.215,"text":"謝謝潘部長的口頭報告我們現在進行綜合詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘立席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分委員如有臨時提案起於上午10點30分前提出處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場"},{"start":3462.975,"end":3481.644,"text":"原例不予處理。首先我們請發言登記第一位的萬美林委員質詢。謝謝主席。我們有請潘文忠部長還有我們體育署政事中署長。有請潘部長跟政署長。"},{"start":3483.593,"end":3503.047,"text":"委員早好 部長早 處長早我想我們最近由這個中華民國電競運動協會辦的2023星光電競大賞的活動在頒獎典禮上引出了很多的爭議那不管是媒體網路還有這個全民都非常的關心我想請教一下部長"},{"start":3504.028,"end":3527.596,"text":"那這個中華民國電競運動協會辦理這一個電競大賞活動把教育部體育署列為指導單位事前有沒有問過教育部或體育署跟委員報告就我跟體育署這邊的瞭解今天的時間很短之前沒有徵詢過體育署的沒有好那如果沒有那這個活動辦得沸沸揚揚的難道教育部跟體育署完全不知道嗎"},{"start":3528.876,"end":3552.009,"text":"因為他沒有知會過體育署那體育署也沒有參與相關的規劃更沒有經費的補助所以確實不知道他活動的辦理或要邀請哪些人員來參與這個確實我們事前不知道那這個協會看起來現在已經把這個教育部體育署從指導單位直接拿掉了那他做這個動作是體育署去要求的嗎這部分我是不是請署長來 請說 請回"},{"start":3556.444,"end":3578.363,"text":"有去要求嗎?有,因為他們的確沒有經過我們的同意。沒有經過我們的同意,所以你也去要求他拿下來了。但是根據本席的了解跟調查,這個中華民國電競協會在去年就有辦2022的星光電競大賽,這不是第一屆了。這個頒獎典禮其實在當時就已經有把教育部體育署列為指導單位了,而且"},{"start":3578.883,"end":3589.183,"text":"到現在官網上還看得到在去年的指導單位就是教育部體育署所以部長在去年辦的這個電競大賽的這個頒獎典禮那教育部你是有同意擔任嗎?"},{"start":3590.956,"end":3618.494,"text":"去年有沒有?報告委員基本上我們每年都因為他不是賽事也不是培訓對那你去年有沒有同意?所以我們沒有同意那因為他也不在我們工作都沒有在我們工作的那個年度工作計畫裡面所以去年也沒有同意今年也沒有同意連續兩年他辦的這麼大辦的這麼沸沸揚揚甚至於可以宣稱說辦的非常的成功而您以及整個體育署教育部全部渾然不知被人家冒用所以結果結論是這樣嗎?"},{"start":3620.663,"end":3649.532,"text":"報告委員說實在的國內很多的運動團體在舉辦活動我只要講這一件事所以是這樣嗎你完全不知道他們基本上都會希望掛我們體育署但是呢我們都一再的宣導沒有經過我們同意不可以所以你的意思是說你沒有可以不可以任何人要掛都可以掛我們不可以我們已經一再宣導也行文給各個協會就是不行所以不可以那你的意思是說可能還有其他協會都是這樣冒用的說實在的在民間單位的確有這種的情況那我們一再的行文就是不可以"},{"start":3650.433,"end":3670.726,"text":"署長這個齁我們另外要來講如果有這個狀況那這一次發生這麼樣一個大的爭議喔你就應該去想一個辦法去杜絕這件事情啊不能沒有作為嘛那話要講回來了如果2023年因為有這個爭議所以你去告訴他請你拿掉那2022沒有這個爭議他說他辦得很成功你就概括承受現在是這樣的意思嗎"},{"start":3671.366,"end":3680.036,"text":"報告委員基本上我們回去還是會請他拿掉這個不需要提醒了吧 對不對你應該往前都要看這個還需要本席在這裡提醒嗎來接下來部長"},{"start":3682.991,"end":3706.778,"text":"這個被冒用沒有經過你同意就把教育部放上去而且我們請來的這個頒獎的人他有因為販毒他自己也承認然後這個一審還遭到判刑四年兩個月那對於教育部其實都一直在做這個反毒的一個宣導反毒的教育那我想這是一個非常諷刺也非常打臉的一件事情您生氣嗎?"},{"start":3708.705,"end":3718.913,"text":"呃 跟委員報告齁第一個未經得同意就掛指導單位這件事情我覺得就是非常不尊重主管機關這部分我會請體育署應該要明文的報酬部長 我的問題非常簡單第二個我跟委員報告齁部長 這件事情你生氣嗎當然覺得非常不適當啊"},{"start":3725.197,"end":3738.754,"text":"非常不適當,你生氣嗎?他這樣的作為。因為他是他們的主規劃。部長,您的態度非常重要。你身為教育部的部長,他這樣的一個做法,您會生氣嗎?就是非常不適當啊。他不適當,那所以你譴責嗎?"},{"start":3740.356,"end":3754.174,"text":"委員 這個我們已經很嚴正的表達任何運動賽會絕對不能跟這些毒品掛鉤所以他這樣子的冒用並且請來這麼不適當的人來做頒獎人你是沒有嚴正譴責你也沒有生氣"},{"start":3755.376,"end":3757.497,"text":"我剛才已經表達了。你表達什麼?就是我們絕對禁止跟毒品有掛鉤。您個人身為教育部的部長,對於有體育團體去冒用教育部體育署的名義,造成體育署名義受損,"},{"start":3773.923,"end":3799.711,"text":"同時又請來了一向違背我們教育部在做反讀宣導反讀教育宗旨的這個頒獎人本身就是一個販毒的人而您卻沒有一個態度我想我們來看這樣子算起來經濟部真的比你有gas多了就在今年一樣是九月份我們經濟部有一個2023臺北世貿秋季的加盟展當時也是遭到市和電廠的冒名為指導單位"},{"start":3802.452,"end":3812.12,"text":"二話不說經濟部就去提告妨礙名譽囉那我請教一下您既不生氣啊也只有做個說明啊那連提告應該都不會吧"},{"start":3813.413,"end":3829.098,"text":"你會捍衛你的名譽去提告嗎?會不會?因為昨天署長親自對外說明我想這個過程其實就表達非常清楚政府的立場什麼立場?就是反讀啊那對於這件事情冒用你會比照經濟部去提告嗎?委員這個是應該來講因為體育署我覺得應該要一個很明確的規範"},{"start":3834.6,"end":3850.861,"text":"負責你會不會去提告嗎?因為剛才署長已經說明了說明會不會去提告嗎?這些團體非常的多好 來 副長我想喔今天他本身對您非常非常的失望第一個你沒有嚴正抗議他冒用體育署的這個名義第二個對於他請來"},{"start":3853.704,"end":3876.401,"text":"販毒的人擔任嘉賓嚴重違反我們教育部這個反毒的立場你也沒有提出嚴正的抗議譴責跟嚴厲的一個處置第三個你也沒有比照經濟部的做法對於冒用教育部人的名義捍衛自己的名譽然後來去提告你以上全部沒有做我想請教一下因為本席也看到在該協會的簡介當中有提到說這個電競協會"},{"start":3878.923,"end":3886.405,"text":"是教育部體育署跟中華奧會唯一指定電技事務委辦的一個單位那同時啊所以我們的賽事從107年起不管他做賽事推廣啦出國啦等等啦我們都有給他補助我們從107年看到112年不斷的增加從100萬到現在將近300萬"},{"start":3900.089,"end":3914.52,"text":"那當然根據媒體的報導這個理事長叫做蕭正嘉似乎是與我們許多背景雄厚的綠營大咖有非常不錯的關係那媒體這樣報導之後當然大家的評論就會沸沸揚揚事情當然就越滾越大那我們也不希望看到這個人他是在110年擔任了電競協會的理事長之後我們也看到我們所有的補助金額就翻倍"},{"start":3927.549,"end":3954.151,"text":"那是不是也因為他有背景所以這個部長您今天的態度才這麼消極既不嚴正遣職只給予適當處置而適當處置可能只是去個電話請他拿下來而且是拿下來今年的、去年的、前年的完全沒有往前面去看完全不像一個教育部的部長去捍衛別人傷害到教育部的名義以及我們這個反獨立場被侵害的權益那我們也看到其實在這個"},{"start":3955.612,"end":3974.213,"text":"同一年2021年電競大賽其實蔡英文總統就有幫忙拍攝宣傳影片那體育署從過去每年補助協會大概本來在100多萬那110年後那時間翻倍到了245萬我想是不是因為這真的是有一個背景所以您不敢辦"},{"start":3975.074,"end":4004.458,"text":"但是我所認識的教育部是為我們的教育部數許多多應該為學生權益、教育權益爭取立場所有同仁都在努力我們不希望因為部長您個人有一些您個人的這個思維、看法或壓力抹煞了大家不管是我們辦活動也好不管是我們禁止其他協會這樣冒用體育署的名義傷害體育署的名義以及我們特教師對於我們的反讀過去同仁們這麼認真而你要知道喔"},{"start":4004.798,"end":4015.764,"text":"今天我們這個協會除了是我們跟中華奧會唯一指定的電競事務委辦單位委辦我們對他就有監督我們對他就應該要有處罰而且部長他還跟我們國內73所大專院校62所高中職來合作"},{"start":4023.809,"end":4043.411,"text":"你知道對對孩子影響有多大我們反讀都來不及了我們反讀的預算在編反讀的工作一直在做可是今天這個影響你知道我們請來的嘉賓或代言人對於我們想要訴求的這個團體或對象都是有很大的影響為何潘文忠部長今天的態度如此軟弱可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":4043.931,"end":4064.403,"text":"我跟委員報告這個跟政治無關只有跟我們政府支持電競選手因為參加的是今年亞運所以他相關的經費我們是全力支持電競選手不是支持這個學會也跟政治無關第二點我跟委員報告那麼在過去他今天所辦的是他自己規劃的表揚活動不是一個電競的競賽活動"},{"start":4067.466,"end":4070.39,"text":"這麼多的相關的團體他們在自主規劃的過程當中確實教育部不會去了解到他的細節而他自己也非常清楚的對國人表示道歉聘了一個不適當的班甲人員我想他自主規劃也聲明對國人"},{"start":4082.409,"end":4090.392,"text":"的這個歉意我想這個不是他們自己的立場那教育部在第一時間已經非常嚴正的表達對這樣的活動因為不是我們自主規劃我們只能很清楚的說電競、運動競技這是一個非常重要支持國人支持這個選手的活動我們應該給最大的支持但絕對不能跟這些毒品什麼化整的這個就是政府最大的立場所以我想各位"},{"start":4108.178,"end":4115.821,"text":"這個跟政治毫無關係啦如果委員一路說他從一百多萬到兩百多萬難道委員覺得電競選手不應該支持他們嗎?部長啊本席要講這句之前早就知道你會扣帽子了喔不是扣帽子我告訴你本席跟大家一樣都非常地支持電競產業電競產業的發展未來要給予預算跟補助我完全贊成哇剛才的經費就是這個過程跟政治無關但是呢我從來沒有一位早前早交代應該跟這個協會什麼經費"},{"start":4135.307,"end":4160.713,"text":"部長今天的事情不是讓你要扣帽子的而是今天的事情是發生了這樣的一個事情發生了這樣的一個事情部長應該要拿出你的態度來不管是你嚴正的譴責沒有聽見你的嚴正譴責也沒有聽到你要去提告你只有簡簡單單做了適當的處理你的態度是軟弱的而還要給質詢的人扣帽子說我們不支持電競產業這樣是不對的你把體育跟運動跟政治掛鉤我不太認同啊"},{"start":4164.634,"end":4166.214,"text":"請大家尊重主席好嗎"},{"start":4194.019,"end":4195.48,"text":"請領域警委員質詢。謝主席,有請鄭署長。請署長。"},{"start":4214.479,"end":4241.548,"text":"署長早上週末的時候台北大巨蛋舉辦那個亞錦賽的開幕戰那服了32年的大巨蛋終於迎來第一場的正式賽那而且這次的對戰是我們全球全台灣球迷最熱烈關注的這個台韓大戰喔那這個具有歷史關鍵的一戰那署長你親自為這個比賽開球喔我想你應該非常的興奮"},{"start":4243.282,"end":4247.53,"text":"包委員其實我事前其實不曉得是當場才告知我的"},{"start":4247.961,"end":4251.263,"text":"大巨蛋開放球迷進場的第一場的測試賽我們有開放一萬三千人免費鎖票那門票一開放就秒殺那這次的亞錦賽的開幕戰也是開放到一萬七千人那我們辦公室助理在每一波試票的時候都開始搶那通通沒有搶到"},{"start":4276.155,"end":4289.345,"text":"那這兩場指標性的比賽這個座位數供不應求當然我們就知道會有黃牛票產生那免費的票甚至被炒到四、五千塊那亞錦賽的內野"},{"start":4292.808,"end":4321.387,"text":"他六百塊也都被炒到四、五千塊那當然這樣的狀況是非常的惡劣所以我們這次要修法就是要修運動產業發展條例就是有人抓到涉嫌販賣黃牛票的情況那我們叫他重罰除每張票卷十至五十倍的罰款我想這是好的方向不過本席想請教就是說像這次大巨蛋的測試賽是採取免費鎖票"},{"start":4322.85,"end":4338.221,"text":"那這個要怎麼罰黃牛票那如果之後有相關類似的這個測試賽或者是說像學生的這種運動比賽是免費的好像說HBL啊UBA這種那這種免費的"},{"start":4339.722,"end":4366.176,"text":"賽事黃牛拿到票再來轉售那這個要怎麼罰因為他票面是零所以我們就院版的這個10到50倍零乘以10到50還是零而且這種比賽也不是說比照這種這個文化文藝藝文展演就他每個座位齁的區塊有一個價格齁因為他全部免費嘛所以也沒有辦法有一個定價"},{"start":4367.336,"end":4385.941,"text":"那我可以理解就是說像這種大巨蛋的這種測試賽可能要好幾年才有一次可是對運動迷來講這個當然也是相當重要像我們之後我們台中會有一個國際級的台中足球園區在2025要完工嘛"},{"start":4389.562,"end":4416.656,"text":"可能也會面臨到這種狀況或被不肖的黃牛來破壞這種美式那所以免費鎖票的這種賽事到底要怎麼處理那本席是建議說是不是可以用抽籤或使民智的方式來進行這樣民眾就不會一直刷票就是說他可能先登記然後我們再用電腦抽籤像之前的動資券或者是一方券都是這樣的概念在操作所以署長你覺得這種"},{"start":4418.317,"end":4419.998,"text":"免費的黃牛票怎麼遏止?"},{"start":4448.617,"end":4448.958,"text":"委員洪孟楷"},{"start":4463.902,"end":4482.967,"text":"現象在很多年才會出現一次所以目前我們是鼓勵業者未來像台中如果要開始要開箱的時候我們會鼓勵他用實名制的方式所以在修法裡面沒有打算要在修法裡面處理目前當然也是因為第一個在"},{"start":4485.688,"end":4505.595,"text":"懲罰的部分因為它本身沒有定價、票面價所以它價值本身的確是沒有它的商品價值那實名制的部分我們其實之前也有規劃過但是業者這部分其實他們是比較持保留的態度因為說實在在運動賽會如果讓民眾要求他們提早兩個小時到現場然後去排隊驗證然後"},{"start":4509.997,"end":4517.242,"text":"苦等兩個小時說實在可能會造成更大的反彈所以這部分目前我們是採取鼓勵但是我們不強制"},{"start":4518.707,"end":4539.164,"text":"好 沒關係 因為我們等一下要修法要審法案所以我們那時候再來詳細討論只是我還是覺得說用行政措施來處理這種賽事的就是說二紙黃牛票確實也不是一個長久之計的沒關係 我們審法案再來談好了那另外我想要提到就是說因為"},{"start":4541.325,"end":4554.272,"text":"本席是很資深、很棒的球迷所以我想很多球迷也跟本席一樣就是說我們期待大巨蛋所謂軟液體設施的改進或者售票機制更加完備等等我們可以爭取更多知名的國際賽來台灣比賽"},{"start":4556.793,"end":4581.528,"text":"那像是日本職棒或者美國大聯盟的這種海外賽我想很多球迷都引起期盼或者緊接而來的2024的這個世界棒球十二強或2026的世界棒球經典賽體育署是不是有計劃要來協助來爭取在大巨蛋舉辦報告委員這部份我們已經跟棒協開始在研議爭取十二強跟經典賽來台灣來舉辦特別是到大巨蛋來"},{"start":4582.182,"end":4605.97,"text":"OK OK 因為我們超級期待像說大谷祥平阿或是Aero Judge可以再來台北來大聚大聊那另外我就說球迷觀賽的體驗我想也是運動賽是很重要的一環那我在預算提案的時候其實有提到說其實台灣現在很多的現有的棒球場排水設施阿照明設施其實有待改進的地方很多那體育署"},{"start":4606.85,"end":4624.081,"text":"現在有個球場優化改善專案計畫這個我真的很高興看到我們有這樣的計畫那要編三議員來優化所有的球場那包括桃園、包括新莊、台中洲際還有我們台南的亞太國際棒球場"},{"start":4625.862,"end":4647.504,"text":"那這個計畫要從113年到116嘛分四年預算來對那我想請教是說我們台南的這個亞太國際棒球場就是少棒球場現在開始啟用少棒球場從2019年嘛到現在已經四年了那這個要什麼樣的階段來施工這個優化工程"},{"start":4648.364,"end":4667.194,"text":"報告委員基本上就針對臺南亞太國際辦公室它已經正在施工那也預期明後年可以 喔這是新的對但是我們其實在優化的過程當中已經在同步進行所以我們在近期已經獲得行政院的核訂這項特別預算那已經通知這幾個縣市的體育局前過來提案來做這個進費的申請已經在進行當中"},{"start":4675.598,"end":4695.546,"text":"好 了解因為我理解是說這個優化工程是應該是說去這個優化這個現有的舊的球場主要是針對觀眾的關賽相關的比方說他的座位洗啦他的廁所啦燈光啦這方面的為主好 了解那剩下一點時間請部長"},{"start":4701.921,"end":4706.968,"text":"委員好部長我想跟你談一下這個中國的這個短音音這個抖音這個這個問題我想在"},{"start":4709.929,"end":4732.597,"text":"一個多月就要大選那很多外媒都關注中國會透過我們的這種社群平台來介入大選那像中國運用這個抖音來進行政治宣傳啊散佈台灣的什麼缺電啊缺水啊缺疫苗這種假訊息那試圖營造台灣一個民不聊生的狀況來分化台灣人民而且他們也會汙名"},{"start":4733.877,"end":4761.212,"text":"不明化香港的民主抗爭者或稱西方的防疫士林等等他們就是要營造一個中國好棒棒的形象那這已經是一個認知作戰那我想抖音喔抖音現在是這樣就是說我們有一篇報導說請來大學教授、中學跟小學老師來觀察學生使用抖音的狀況就發現學齡學齡越低使用抖音的這個比例越高"},{"start":4762.272,"end":4789.715,"text":"甚至有老師在一小學六年級來進行一些問卷調查結果有在使用跟曾經使用抖音的孩子佔了四分之三所以這令人擔憂的狀況是說這種抖音就是他很輕鬆的接收到訊息不用多費心思這會讓孩子喪失閱讀跟深度思考的能力所以這個議題其實當然我們也很難禁止說孩子不能使用抖音那可是我覺得教育部怎麼樣"},{"start":4790.356,"end":4813.948,"text":"有正確教導孩子有正確的使用方式跟媒體識讀那你們公佈一個新版就是《數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書》裡面有提到說我們現在就是要趕快培養禁用、行動、反思、創造、分析等等的能力來進行平原思考說到其他部長說那我們教育部到底有沒有掌握學生使用抖音或小紅書的這種動機和食肉頻率的相關數據嗎這是跟委員報告嗎"},{"start":4819.911,"end":4838.946,"text":"這個確實抖音對尤其年齡越低的這些青少年學生那有產生的負面影響所以我們除了持續做宣導之外我也跟委員報告在7月10號我們也在他內的這個封鎖阻擋讓他們在中小學是不會只當然在學校啦如果在一般"},{"start":4839.426,"end":4855.889,"text":"其他場所是不容易我們也做了這個動作那也表達著學生在學校內是比較不可能去使用到使用到那個抖音跟小紅書的這方面那也做了一些阻擋的效果"},{"start":4856.249,"end":4881.21,"text":"那另外一個委根文報告這確實要不斷還是用宣導啦因為網路世界就是無所不在那麼對於他在青少年網路的內容相關的防護的這部分我們會持續的來辦理那麼尤其是剛才委員所提到的我們在數位時代媒體素養的教育白皮書裡面對於這方面的使用其實是在包含到師資的養成過程當中"},{"start":4883.792,"end":4901.361,"text":"委員會特別提醒,因為我覺得老師能夠適時的,尤其我們現在根本全面的都用進入到這些教學透過數位,包含載具、軟體等等的這些的過程,我覺得我們這部分一直都是在思培的過程,老師專業層"},{"start":4902.341,"end":4902.541,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":4928.865,"end":4932.55,"text":"謝謝部長、謝謝林益勤委員的質詢。再來我們請張亮萬堅委員質詢。好,謝謝。我們請那個部長。好,請潘部長。"},{"start":4944.588,"end":4958.656,"text":"委員好部長好我想我們今天要修運動產業發展條例當然跟這個黃牛票這個有關係那其實體育的黃牛票其實並不罕見我們剛才看到那個巨蛋巨蛋事件那我們其實往前推"},{"start":4959.597,"end":4971.89,"text":"那像這個彭正敏的引退那一場大概2019年那個在網路上923塊的這個門票啊超過了13倍被飆到了喊價喊到了12,323像這樣也算黃牛票嘛對不對好"},{"start":4975.573,"end":5001.263,"text":"另外像去年的美國直男明星魔獸他加入桃園雲報結果黃牛票也從一百塊最便宜一百塊漲到兩千三像這樣的事情包括我們最近看到這個亞錦賽其實亞錦賽以前再怎麼熱門因為像日本他只是派那個社會球隊的精英那其實台灣是因為棒球是國球大家都很喜歡看"},{"start":5001.783,"end":5015.93,"text":"但是過去大概除了殺盡冠亞軍以外大概一般的這個說會弄到爆滿像經典賽這樣其實比較少但是這一次可能是因為巨蛋是第一次開放然後台灣有了巨蛋所以大家都想要去體驗"},{"start":5017.071,"end":5024.175,"text":"那你看這次開放了三波第一波這個25號11月24號這個三千張那也是秒殺那後來主辦單位開賣了25、28、30號分別賣了一萬張、三千張跟一千張都是秒殺真的是秒殺那"},{"start":5036.791,"end":5050.884,"text":"這個我其實在網路上也收到很多這個球迷的這個抗議跟陳情他們認為說這個根本就是用那個掃票機器掃的那這樣的掃然後公然的烘台那我們因為運產條例還沒有修"},{"start":5052.845,"end":5069.756,"text":"這個大概抓到了我們目前有抓到嘛 對不對抓到了大概只用那個微軟社會秩序維護法來罰那抓了67個黃牛170張票你看這個黃牛的囂張的程度其實讓球迷非常的生氣也非常的不滿所以我想今天的修法"},{"start":5070.296,"end":5094.867,"text":"委員長大概是草野共識啦希望趕快修法好那其實我們其實都很期待像這個重要的賽事能夠得到球迷的支持尤其是在疫情之後其實我們看到最近的這個重要的藝文活動其實都還不錯包括我們的運動都還不錯像之前國內的體壇其實歷經一段低潮啦譬如說這個直男"},{"start":5095.507,"end":5098.67,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形．並備質詢。」進行專題報告．"},{"start":5120.991,"end":5144.61,"text":"剛才署長也有提到其實我想不只是明年的十二強賽後年的經典賽其實明年初可能就是三月份其實就有獨脈巨人90週年的一個紀念只要他到巨蛋去打我相信都是熱門的球賽尤其是獨脈巨人裡面以前早期台灣的球星呂明次也曾在那邊打過怪力呂明次"},{"start":5146.791,"end":5170.13,"text":"對台灣人來講獨賣巨人也是一個大家非常想要看的球隊那我們都希望說我們不希望看到今天這次被秒殺之後又拿出來賣黃牛一抓67個還沒抓了多少所以我想要跟部長講、署長講就是說我們除了有法律之外我們有幾個問題必須面對怎麼樣去抓"},{"start":5173.573,"end":5195.986,"text":"譬如說我們這次的修法我們文化部的修法其實這個運動產業發展條例這個二十四條之一其實跟文化創意產業發展法的十條之一的內容這六條差不多大同小異大概也是罰十到五十倍那最多關三年或罰三百萬那其實我們來看一看就王創文創法修法之後"},{"start":5197.806,"end":5222.673,"text":"這個我們看一下實施的一個狀況其實被檢舉的大概500案那六都裡面一共333案我們如果目前來看臺北市檢舉的案件最多213案那目前只裁罰了5案5案裡面罰了44.16萬那另外還有26萬沒有罰那其他的案件可能都在調查中也沒有那麼快來成案那其他你看新北、桃園、台中"},{"start":5223.593,"end":5241.627,"text":"臺南都還沒有開罰的這個案例那高雄呢檢舉了65案8件成立那罰了42.98萬看起來是比社會秩序維護法1.8萬多了一些錢但是呢也只有17案那我要講的是說這被罰的13案也不過罰了87萬好"},{"start":5243.709,"end":5249.833,"text":"那我們現在好了黃牛條文如果上路我們今天修法過了那案件那麼多裁罰少那三項文創無法創意這個文創"},{"start":5255.137,"end":5279.142,"text":"相關的條例通過之後我們抓了這個文化黃牛那333案只划了13案那原因到底是什麼我們在場是不是也有這個文化部或者是其他的官員來了是不是來講一下另外進文化部他是有設立一個檢舉黃牛的專區喔那我們教育部會設置這個檢舉的專區嗎這部分根本報告有必要還是跟文化部一起同一個窗口因為有的球迷搞不清楚啊"},{"start":5280.062,"end":5306.867,"text":"委員應該說我們會設置專區自己是不是跟文化部共同這我們兩個部會會上一下會上一下要不要設統一窗口還是分別設還是說它統一窗口進去之後它分流分成文化的跟運動的而且這個對年輕人來講這是他們能夠來看球賽很重要的一個管道那如果說每次看到熱門賽事想要去看就被烘台到那種不成比例的價格我想"},{"start":5307.627,"end":5322.917,"text":"求名跟這些會非常失望另外就是大家都提到免費票要怎麼罰的問題因為我們的條例裡面包括運動產業發展條例裡面都沒有提到免費票怎麼罰那這個我剛才講的是不是署長或部長能夠回應我"},{"start":5324.456,"end":5344.862,"text":"委員當然這個實名制啦確實比較能夠防止這個方面就是免費票的部分當然這個要變成完全全面有時候碰到有一些我知道業者會認為時間太長排隊排太久這個方面我想我們是可以做一個因為在目前的修法的內容裡面確實"},{"start":5346.863,"end":5346.963,"text":"我其實剛才"},{"start":5365.922,"end":5394.656,"text":"不是啦,我剛才問的重點有兩個嘛一個就是我們其實有了法,法修過之後以文化的黃牛來看檢舉很多但罰的很少它會不會造成一個嚇阻作用那其實這些掃票機器也抓到了啊我看這次聽說抓到兩個掃票機器掃票機器它可以判刑的,三年以下的我們會不會判刑這個東西如果說只是提高罰款額度可是跟整個利益整個黃牛產業利益不成比例的時候坦白講沒有作用"},{"start":5396.168,"end":5399.64,"text":"所以我問一下署長署長因你在學界跟實務界這樣看"},{"start":5401.466,"end":5428.72,"text":"這個法修這樣有沒有惡主的作用?基本上如果是單就個人去搶票然後拿來販賣的話我想我們的目前比較文化部的這個修法用這樣子的十到五十倍的罰款應該是還算符合至於掃票機器人這部分的確有必要用這掃票機器人很可惡啊你看幾秒鐘全部都掃光了啊對,所以的確有需要判"},{"start":5429.52,"end":5448.131,"text":"判刑,不過我想這部分還是應該...那個很可能就是一個批發商嘛,我掃到的時候批給小黃牛,小黃牛再出去賣。所以這個一定要建立一個,你們一定要去追,一定要去...這個源頭如果沒有打擊的話,底下的小黃牛一定是沒有辦法餓足啦。好不好,我們看從文化黃牛看起來有這個現象。"},{"start":5449.292,"end":5471.781,"text":"那其他抓到的可能到現在也還在起訴中啦或者說也還沒有正式提出告訴啦我們也都會密切注意啦讀法不足以自刑坦白講修了法利益良善但有沒有辦法遏阻又是一個問題另外就是免費票我剛才講第二個免費票的問題你們還是要有一個辦法來阻止啦好不好好最後一個對不起再給我兩分鐘我先問一下那個署長"},{"start":5473.081,"end":5494.289,"text":"我在審預算的時候11月6號的時候提到那個宮西靶場的事情那宮西靶場11月6號我提的時候那時候是整幕凍結100萬而已但不想凍結預算那我們也知道其實剛才部長在報告裡面我們的奧運選手2024年已經有16位選手達到標準會比賽其中有5個選手就是涉及的選手"},{"start":5495.672,"end":5519.999,"text":"涉及是這麼的重要我們已經我們的成績已經有五位達標了五位達標他們都是在宮西靶場練習結果宮西靶場心理師啊招聘已經一年了所以我當時關心一個月前我省域上非常關心因為我們去考察的時候裡面的教練、協會、幹部都說這個心理師對於涉及選手非常重要可是我非常失望"},{"start":5520.879,"end":5531.947,"text":"因為你們11月29號剛剛上網招標的招募的這個公西靶場計畫運動心理人員到12月7號明天為止我請問有人投遞嗎?"},{"start":5533.539,"end":5534.439,"text":"坦白講我非常不滿意"},{"start":5554.958,"end":5582.921,"text":"11月6號我們才做了這樣決議,凍結了。我們希望說,好,我們希望說能夠提,調高薪水,你們說會,會調高薪水。人才,市場人才已經很少了。那我們奧運選手16位,現在已經有5位是徹底選手了。結果我們到現在還是用原來薪水招聘,但招聘不到嘛。你們夠積極嗎?我非常質疑喔。我希望這部分能夠更積極喔,好不好。有資源,也給你們了,也在關心了,可是現在上網徵,徵,這個,招募的還是這種薪水。"},{"start":5583.741,"end":5598.866,"text":"還是又要再開一次會我覺得這個後勤的資源啊也未免讓我太失望好不好積極一點去輔導這些選手已經五位囉我們已經過這個五位了男女涉及的選手已經有五位了已經16位已經五位囉拜託一下好不好積極一點好謝謝好謝謝委員部長署長請回謝謝張亮萬堅委員再來我們請黃國書委員質詢"},{"start":5612.421,"end":5615.964,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請部長、署長。有請部長、署長。委員好。署長好。大巨蛋開幕首戰,台灣迎球當然大家都很振奮,但是事先大家都說這個會有黃牛喔,後來果然有黃牛。"},{"start":5631.894,"end":5659.916,"text":"那事先當然知道了那署長也說要正式要來修法這個當然值得鼓勵啦當然要修法文化部的一些很多的演出有黃牛文化部都修法了那當然我們體育署這邊當然也要有積極作為不過要怎麼樣來處理就是說明明事先就知道他會有黃牛結果我們還是眼睜睜的看著黃牛事件發生"},{"start":5661.553,"end":5679.971,"text":"我沒有什麼辦法在事先防範這我要來跟我們體育署討論大巨蛋搶完票就湧出黃牛票臺北市議員就說臺北市政府明明知道也是擺爛當然臺北市政府他們也要承擔很大的這樣子的責爛"},{"start":5682.048,"end":5704.953,"text":"那文創法有針對藝文演出的黃牛有在執行了6月2號就開始實施了但是他受理藝文表演票券的黃牛的檢舉又是後來檢舉當然重罰那我們來檢視一下以文創法規範的這一些藝文演出照目前的狀況"},{"start":5708.544,"end":5711.286,"text":"從6月開始到11月底文創法管轄總共行事要件要齊備這個齊備要多麻煩要取得的這些加價轉售票時間管道平台你都要具體的要指出還有販售人的姓名別稱聯絡電話電子郵件其他聯絡等等也就是說他要有這些要件那這些要件都要非常的具體"},{"start":5739.067,"end":5766.634,"text":"這個對檢舉人來說這個的確是很麻煩所以才會形成說總共才有334件是刑事要被起見的不齊備的有500多件所以說我們經過這麼多文創法管轄的範圍內的檢舉齊備的構成違反文創法的就是構成荒謬的只有38%那這個要給我們體育署參考因為接下來我們要修法嘛就38%"},{"start":5768.066,"end":5784.088,"text":"那你們未來要怎麼樣處理這個部分那個檢舉的要件需要這個樣子嗎但是問題是這很兩難如果我們沒有這一些要件的話繁瑣的要件的話那它很難構成"},{"start":5785.345,"end":5800.277,"text":"具體的事證所以這個都很麻煩處理了所以體育署你們在未來要做這個專法的確要非常非常的更進一步來思考我如何在取締這個體育黃牛我們在"},{"start":5803.933,"end":5829.01,"text":"運動產業相關的法治上我們如何有辦法有效的具體的來處理這個部分那現在黃牛的城市掃票你要用AI去買票啊你也很難去找到當事人是誰那怎麼辦呢人家都用運用高科技的在買黃牛票的那我們要怎麼樣來執行這個也是有高難度的這個部分也要給體育署你們參考所以我們才會想到說"},{"start":5830.578,"end":5857.531,"text":"那乾脆來做實名制好了可是體育署署長說如果用實名制的話會造成民眾在入場的時候一個很大的困擾但是臺北市政府說應該要研議實名制臺北市政府說要研議實名制那體育署署長說這會造成很大的困擾所以目前不研議實名制那到底該不該來做實名制"},{"start":5858.769,"end":5883.598,"text":"我想不出更好的辦法也就是說明明知道這一場一定會有黃牛票事先就已經知道了我們還眼睜睜的看著黃牛的選委發聲那政府沒有更好的辦法更好的策略嗎我不是說一定要實名制但是實名制是一個策略有沒有具體可行的辦法如果沒有具體可行的辦法實名制當然就是策略的一種"},{"start":5884.946,"end":5897.668,"text":"那當然我們不可能每一場都實名制嘛臺灣跟韓國這個一定會有黃牛啊臺灣跟香港就不會有黃牛嘛所以一定是針對有可能有黃牛的我們體育署要事先預告這一場會有黃牛黃牛你不要囂張我們會嚴懲重罰然後我們這一場我們會採取什麼樣子的策略讓黃牛止步你至少要先有一些宣示性的做法嘛"},{"start":5914.96,"end":5941.085,"text":"大巨蛋的首戰我們就是眼睜睜的看著黃牛猖獗然後我們束手無策然後事後才說我們要來修法我們要來接受檢舉弄到來人家黃牛的行為都已經賺飽飽了然後還讓黃牛猖獗的這些人笑我們政府然後我沒辦法你就拿我沒辦法你怎麼辦呢想出具體可行的辦法啦好再來"},{"start":5942.509,"end":5959.415,"text":"對於運動產業除了黃牛會造成很大的影響之外我認為這個直攬的甲球風暴這個會對我們台灣的運動產業會有造成非常非常大的傷害運採條例二十一條"},{"start":5960.836,"end":5970.488,"text":"是重罰的那最近針對孜然甲球的風暴要有開閘指標性的案件這個很好但我們來看運產發行條例裡頭它怎麼規範這個都重罰欸"},{"start":5977.367,"end":6002.713,"text":"強暴、脅迫、詐術非法的方法這處一年以上七年以下的有期徒刑如果是劫火三人就是他是一個團體犯罪的話他更處三年以上我們這個重罰那台灣的運財是針對中華之棒當然還有職籃那我想問一下體育署你們要去掌握到底還有多少場比賽是沒有開盤的我現在"},{"start":6004.821,"end":6017.883,"text":"如列給你們參考。好,下一頁。好,職棒有很多是運材沒有開盤的場數,是這樣子。職籃還是有很多沒有開盤。那我要特別提到了"},{"start":6019.06,"end":6042.569,"text":"職人的PLG跟T1台灣的運材是沒有提供投注的這個是一個很大的黑數那這些台灣運材沒有投注的他們讀什麼當然是地下賭盤啊地下賭盤都是針對PLG跟T1那這個如果逮到的話用什麼罪沒有辦法用運材條例來"},{"start":6046.25,"end":6057.048,"text":"來處罰,那個是重罪啊重刑啊但是沒有這個提供投注的沒有開盤的這些T1跟PLG啊你改到他只能用賭博罪賭博罪是罰多少錢啊五萬以下"},{"start":6060.086,"end":6081.081,"text":"所以當然這個會是地下賭盤猖獗的這個部分所以我在這裡建議就是說除了我們運產條例21條來重罰之外我們針對那一些台灣運產沒有規範到的沒有開盤的那些賽事的地下賭盤我們還是要提出一些有效的做法"},{"start":6082.515,"end":6110.344,"text":"以上針對黃牛跟這個甲球對台灣的運動產業會造成非常大的傷害請署長或是部長應該回答謝謝委員剛剛對這方面的很多的提醒那當然運動賽事跟活動這部分今天如果能夠在我們貴人會獲得委員們的同意支持我想這個在法制面上跟過去只是用社會秩序維護的這個強度是完全不同"},{"start":6111.064,"end":6136.764,"text":"那委員也剛才提到包括以文化部他們在藝文門票這個時事到現在的一些進行提醒我想這部分這部提議書也會跟文化部我們就執行的面因為有一個法制的基礎下能不能有效這個是委員剛才所提到的我想這部分我們兩個部會會進一步的在做這方面的研討那至於剛才委員提到如果地下的這方面確實是目前"},{"start":6137.825,"end":6156.34,"text":"法規並沒有特別再去點到的那這個我們可能真的需要比較深入的來做一些探討啦那個謝謝委員剛才所提的這些相關的提醒事項我想教育部會來持續的做如果法治通過了之後我想後面在執行上我們希望能夠"},{"start":6159.222,"end":6184.975,"text":"有更嚴厲的、好的方式那如果在很多的場次確實以實名制因為那是最根本的走向如果在相關的配套可行的之下我想這部分我們應該跟主辦單位希望能夠盡量朝這個方向因為主要都是在維護觀眾的觀賞權益啦我們相信主辦單位如果技術各方面能搭配的起來這確實是一個比較更根本的方法"},{"start":6185.535,"end":6200.944,"text":"好 我們針對一些熱門的場次我認為體育組應該去研擬規劃類實名制的做法那一方面我們當然要減少那個繁複的要去參觀 要去參看"},{"start":6202.865,"end":6230.298,"text":"觀看的時候的那些要去進到那個場地的時候那些作業的程序那非常非常繁瑣當然你們去想辦法做一些簡化的作業然後運用現在的科技現在的科技其實可以非常便捷的來解決這個問題那至少我在事前宣告我這一場是要實名制的其實就是有效要遏止黃牛嘛這一場都要實名制我黃牛幹嘛去掃票啊然後加上事後的重罰"},{"start":6232.037,"end":6238.599,"text":"這個給你們參考啦好不好好謝謝委員謝謝部長請回謝謝黃國書委員的質詢再來我們請陳敬明委員質詢那待會陳秀寶委員質詢結束後我們休息五分鐘好謝謝主席我想請部長跟鄭署長請部長還有署長"},{"start":6256.858,"end":6276.061,"text":"委員好 部長早安 署長早安那我想今天針對那個運發條例的審查前面很多的委員已經有很多的垂審了那我自己個人也是對於我們現在這個不論是職棒、職籃受到了很多的我們全國民眾的喜愛我真的真的覺得"},{"start":6277.082,"end":6302.396,"text":"好棒喔 好久沒有這種熱血感了齁那特別是大巨蛋開幕的時候大家對於能夠贏韓國齁更是一個連我們這種對運動沒有很有熱衷的齁看到這樣子的一個結果都非常的受到的激勵跟鼓舞啦齁那當然大家也會覺得是說喔那好不容易有這樣子的一個氛圍起來了怎麼樣子不要辜負民眾的一個期待"},{"start":6302.956,"end":6313.766,"text":"讓大家都能夠進球場去看賽是很重要的一個我們期待我們部裡面要拿出來的一個態度那但是的確剛剛國書委員也提到了光這一場大巨蛋我們就已經看到相關的黃牛猖獗的問題那當然我們知道在過去這個文創法上面我們其實已經做了相關的修法了"},{"start":6328.26,"end":6339.443,"text":"那一份已經修法囉這一些代購啊搶票的一個狀況還是有發生吼所以我這裡可能真的只能請這邊部裡面跟署長這邊來承諾吼特別是剛剛部長也提到了說如果在今天我們的運發條例通過了以後"},{"start":6347.165,"end":6359.548,"text":"能夠讓部裡更有武器來做這件事我覺得我們的教文委員會一定是這些委員一定是充分的支持只是從過去我們的文創一本修法以後還看到很大的一個問題像剛剛國書委員給的資料我們38%的案件"},{"start":6365.37,"end":6388.563,"text":"才能夠成案表示很多數是沒有辦法成案的表示這些檢舉的制度可能還需要再做檢討那除了剛剛國屬委員提到的部分以外我再給部裡一個資料就是說就算成案的這個檢舉成案的這個案件當中以地方政府真的裁罰成功的也只有六案"},{"start":6389.483,"end":6409.742,"text":"也是只有高雄有成案所以這裡我可能要提醒我們部裡是不是在我們的相關的處罰上面可以跟高雄市政府這邊來互相討論一下為什麼他可以確定有裁處那其他的部分都沒有辦法成功主要是我們真的也覺得是說"},{"start":6410.963,"end":6435.874,"text":"這樣子的一個檢舉制度,如果能夠讓它很實際的落實的話,這個也比較不會辜負民眾對於現在運動賽事的期待啦。是,謝謝委員,包含剛才國樹委員也在提醒,確實從這個議文這個發行之後啦,那也看到有一些在執行面上,怎麼樣可以有更好的"},{"start":6436.734,"end":6455.135,"text":"作法可以達到有效的遏止。這個方面我想如果今天通過這個法,我們會跟文化部還有巴隆蓋委員提醒有些地方政府執行的那個有效的方法是怎麼樣做。我想這些都是後面教育部體育署這邊會來努力的。"},{"start":6456.977,"end":6478.566,"text":"對啦,這種跨部會的合作上面既然已經前面有這樣子的一個經驗值的時候我們就可以避免再走冤枉路了嘛好,謝謝那另外當然這個可能前天這一件事也很多的委員關注啦這個TOYS都已經承認它有吸毒跟販毒了那結果當然這個"},{"start":6480.327,"end":6508.684,"text":"我們教育部體育署這邊很快速的就說沒有我們並沒有做相關的補助但是事實上他還是把我們列為指導單位那當然就會讓很多的家長非常的關心如果他已經是對我們青少年特別是電子競技運動的話是以青少年為主那如果我們還讓這一些人能夠大剌剌的上台頒獎好像宣誓的一個態度就是他"},{"start":6509.184,"end":6529.98,"text":"曾經是HERO他犯錯了大家都還是可以原諒他那這樣子的一個態度其實對家長來說是很不能夠接受的所以這個部分可能也要請部裡面這邊再強一點除了說我們很清楚的說我們不是列席指導單位以外是不是還有更強硬的一個措施啊譬如說我們雖然沒有補助這一場"},{"start":6531.621,"end":6558.998,"text":"可是我的辦公室助理去請我們體育署調相關的一個資料我們110年補助他240萬111年補助240萬今年更是補助290萬喔所以我們對於已經補助的一個金額或者是我們有沒有什麼辦法可以讓家長看到我們教育部對於他們這樣子的一個行為是很不能夠接受的特別是他冒名把我們作為指導單位"},{"start":6560.879,"end":6567.785,"text":"跟委員報告確實我們支持體育競技包含電競因為它已經是亞運未來都可能成為奧運而且確實在今年的亞運我們的電競也有很好的表現"},{"start":6576.632,"end":6582.237,"text":"這個我想是一個我們在整個政策上值得鼓勵但是教育部包含我們行政院跨部會對反讀的那個立場也確實是非常的明確而且也是嚴格的在執行所以這兩個絕對不容許有掛鉤、連結的現象這個是我想我們在第一時間"},{"start":6597.93,"end":6615.727,"text":"為什麼我請體育署一定要說明這個情形我想主辦單位雖然在過程當中其實他也在瞭解第一時間他也跟國人道歉也跟這個因為沒有得到體育署的同意就掛名也跟體育署表示這樣的歉意那當然後續我覺得我也請體育署這邊"},{"start":6620.652,"end":6625.136,"text":"第一個對電競協會的這部分在支持電競運動選手的培訓參與比賽我們這點支持但是呢也嚴格的要求我想如果是在有這一種不適當的安排結果造成社會的疑慮這個對我們參與電競的這些選手其實也是一個很大的負擔也會擔心加上"},{"start":6643.394,"end":6644.194,"text":"家長更多疑慮與疑心。目前電競逐步逐步在發展中"},{"start":6660.339,"end":6665.825,"text":"那對於這幾年的他們的經費的增加即使都是在做相關選手的培訓跟參賽尤其亞運今年剛剛才完成這個才是經費增加的原因"},{"start":6675.595,"end":6682.402,"text":"有的確有都是跟什麼選拔賽有關的費用的支持是這一些這一次的辦的這個反而不是一個電競比賽也不是一個什麼頒獎他完全是一個什麼表揚但是這個我認為這個確實對社會造成的疑慮"},{"start":6693.993,"end":6696.354,"text":"我想這部分我也請體育署一定要非常嚴正的包含對該協會應該進行的輔導跟要求這個我一直認為體育競賽、體育競技這本身對社會是一個非常正向的但是"},{"start":6709.558,"end":6734.449,"text":"在相關活動的安排、人員的邀請上,這個部分,態度應該是要非常的謹慎。好,那我們就再請布里這邊,不好意思時間不夠了。那另外這個當然就是我們知道,剛剛一直提到對於選手的保護是很重要的。那我想要提的就是國訓中心。那我想這個2019年已經發生了,今天是不是那個李文斌執行長也有列席吧?"},{"start":6735.149,"end":6752.975,"text":"那我們發現說已經有這樣子的一個情況2019年那個執行長也說要對宿舍的管理要做相關的管理但是我們昨天還是前天還是發生了這樣子的一個情況我覺得這個可能是你都已經知道有這件事情了還讓"},{"start":6754.495,"end":6778.829,"text":"這樣子的一個奧運我們未來的一個選手這麼重要有潛力可以為我們爭排的選手發生這樣因為我很不希望我們已經有培訓的選手未來發生什麼樣子的一個問題當然這個其實男女之間本來就是我們不會是禁止啦但是如果因為這樣影響其他的選手我覺得這個就是一個很大的問題所以對不起時間不夠我可能沒有辦法讓您回應但是我"},{"start":6779.809,"end":6796.857,"text":"強烈請我們國訓中心要來把剛剛提到的宿舍管理這件事要落實好不好好第三個很重要的對不起我可以請國教署嗎我知道我們國教署教育部一百零八年就針對我們的健康中心的設施設備"},{"start":6798.058,"end":6819.139,"text":"有做這個的規範那很重要的是這個規範就是要讓學生當受傷或者是需要去健康中心的時候可以有好的照顧但是我的這個辦公室就接到了檢舉我從九月開始處理到這件事到現在其實家長還對於我們處理的方式非常的不滿意"},{"start":6820.16,"end":6842.172,"text":"主要是來我給你看部長給你看一下非常奇葩的地方他說我們的這個健康服務中心一定要有獨立的空間但是因為因故找不到校戶所以我就把健康服務中心跟老師的辦公室放在一起然後用這樣子的一個塑膠隔連隔起來"},{"start":6843.112,"end":6869.186,"text":"然後有相關的隱私我就用這樣子的一個圍欄圍起來那請問學童可以有好的休息嗎更重要的感控那老師在做討論的時候學生有辦法跟校戶表達相關的問題嗎我知道這個是地方教育局的權責可是我們的教育部已經我透過國聯請我們的教育部跟國教署說去輔導"},{"start":6870.166,"end":6898.413,"text":"但是學校的回應是說經過了學校的討論了以後這個是最恰當的來部長這個是最恰當的嗎請問跟委員報告兩點第一點您所揭示這個圖我們會跟他再確認一下他那個隔間如果他需要這樣的話但是我們發現另外一個委員原來告訴我們更嚴重的問題就是說原來這個問題是他移到了"},{"start":6899.173,"end":6903.578,"text":"救護車沒有辦法去的地方也告訴我們這個事情所以我們也掉了圖了花蓮縣昨天還有今天兩天一直在輔導我們看結果怎麼樣需要我們協助的部分不管是經費或是他專科教室要再改一次我們都可以大力來協助以學童的健康"},{"start":6918.793,"end":6941.968,"text":"當然啦,當然,而且我們已經有相關的辦法不過最重要的是他很大的一個理由是因為找不到校戶,校戶兼了很多的行政工作啊這個我已經講了非常多次了齁就是我們的校戶不能夠兼行政書務的工作但是擺明了他現在就告訴我們說找不到校戶是因為校戶沒有辦法在衛生中心裡面所以我是不是就是請部長這邊"},{"start":6943.089,"end":6958.76,"text":"在承諾說能夠讓這個校戶的一個代理制度一定要落實然後要有學校的一個獨立的健康服務中心好不好時間到了那請部長之後再回應謝謝部長請回謝謝陳敬明委員的質詢再來我們請鄭麗文委員質詢陳秀寶委員質詢完後我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":6971.24,"end":6974.688,"text":"謝主席請部長跟署長有請部長還有署長趙薇紅"},{"start":6979.787,"end":7002.874,"text":"好,那麼這個發生了這個TOYS跟統神的這個電競的找販毒來頒獎的事情引起社會非常嚴重的軒然大波那麼我看到教育部體育署第一時間當然是競速的切割表示說這個是他們根本沒有經過你們的同意掛名的第二個"},{"start":7004.22,"end":7006.809,"text":"體育署也沒有補助這個活動所以換句話說這個活動的整個的舉辦的過程你們並不知情"},{"start":7011.181,"end":7039.157,"text":"那問題是說現在網路上已經炸鍋了這是一個態度的問題那麼我們看到上一次也曾經因為0到6歲一起養這個影片我們也在這邊關切過當時也是影片內容不宜網路炸鍋那我們看到教育部下架最後部長也道歉了那麼今天這件事情童神也怒嗆了說居然找一個販毒的來頒獎"},{"start":7040.737,"end":7058.605,"text":"全網炸鍋那麼這件事情雖然體育署已經表達了嚴正的立場也已經切割說明但我想第一個想先請教部長跟署長你們覺得這件事情需不需要向社會大眾來道歉呢請教部長"},{"start":7060.025,"end":7084.28,"text":"跟委員報告這個事前確實我們並不了解也沒有參與任何的規劃那主辦單位就我所了解到的訊息在第一時間他確實也公開的跟國人也包含跟體育署來因為本來就沒有徵得體育署的同意對我看到報導說是體育署要求他們要道歉這個部長那您覺得體育署署長要不要道歉呢為這件事情"},{"start":7086.429,"end":7094.372,"text":"我要報告的是說為什麼在零到六歲國家一講那個影片我話不說因為那是我們自己辦理自己規劃都做的你們也是發包給家長協會啊這個不是切割啦我要講這兩件事情的差別是什麼零到六歲國家一講那個影片是教育部是主辦的單位"},{"start":7108.257,"end":7131.764,"text":"是找專業的是那這一次這個是完全是民間的運動的協會他自主規劃啊也所以您覺得部長您覺得署長也不需要道歉這個我們應該表達的是好那部長是這樣但是我要表達的一件事清楚的是說因為這個電競已經也是列為體育競技的這件事情"},{"start":7132.578,"end":7161.329,"text":"這個是國人關注的 這個我都知道部長你不需要再重複了我了解你的態度 我們這是重要我們也表達的 是是是我了解你的態度所以我接下來想要了解的是說當你們發生這樣一個非常離譜很扯很瞎的事情的時候那麼除了第一時間做危機處理做切割會不會覺得自己很倒霉還是會不會覺得自己很生氣呢我想要請問一下署長就是說發生這種事情那你們的感受是什麼"},{"start":7162.129,"end":7183.688,"text":"報告委員其實我們在第一時間的時候有聯繫電競協會去了解狀況那我們在第一時間的確對秘書長表達非常的不滿第一個他怎麼會找一個不恰當的人來做頒獎那我們所以我們在對外的說明我們第一個第一件事情就是向外宣稱我們教育部體育署"},{"start":7184.689,"end":7212.651,"text":"跟運動競技絕對不能跟毒品劃上等。所以很生氣兩個原因第一個,絕對不可以讓毒品來染黑了一個大家認為應該要支持的一個活動嘛第二個,居然還把你們一起拖下水跟你們無關的事情還讓你們掛名我想是主要是因為這兩個原因嘛那我不知道署長跟部長這兩天有沒有上網去看在生氣之餘有沒有了解整個過程發生的一個過程"},{"start":7213.769,"end":7240.618,"text":"我先請教署長好了你覺得是不是主辦單位故意的呢?主辦單位他們請這個TOYS來他不可能不知道他有販毒的前科啊那他為什麼還特別請他來呢?所以這件事情我想先請教署長你認為是一個嚴重的疏失還是他根本是故意請他來的呢?"},{"start":7242.571,"end":7267.057,"text":"報告委員這部分我在第一時間去詢問電競協會啦那基本上他們的態度就是他們覺得他也沒做錯了所以也沒有什麼需要辯論不是他們也做錯了是他們為什麼做這件事他們一開始可能覺得你覺得他們是故意的嗎我覺得他們或許啦因為對他們整個活動或許是一個話題但是我在第一時間告訴他這絕對不允許"},{"start":7267.907,"end":7284.249,"text":"好 因為這件事情統神是爆炸了因為你看到媒體的報導他是說當時他到現場要接受這個現場的時候工作人員有問他說如果TOYS到現場他會不會生氣"},{"start":7285.59,"end":7312.466,"text":"換句話說主辦單位是有意識到這件事情而不是沒有意識到這件事情的所以統神還講說反正剛我有什麼事啊 對不對所以他並沒有表示可是他說他後來看到要頒獎給他的人居然是TOYS的時候他的第一個反應就是說原來主辦單位要製造一個大家想要看到的效果因為他們過去有過節嘛是宿敵嘛"},{"start":7313.126,"end":7322.14,"text":"所以你看他第一個反應是說原來這個是主辦單位set好的要看到他們的效果然後呢您知不知道這件事情的流量有多少"},{"start":7328.198,"end":7351.325,"text":"網路上的流量 報告員基本上我在發生事情當晚就已經去電了我也告訴理事長這個事情的流量高達你看頒獎典禮的觀看人次現在已經高達24萬統神的直播26萬TOYS的直播高達48萬而且最扯的是他們居然還請他們帶小孩來"},{"start":7354.448,"end":7359.756,"text":"請統審他太太還有帶小朋友來說這是一個非常適合闔家一起來參與的"},{"start":7361.363,"end":7388.48,"text":"那是不是連這個都是事先塞好的呢?所以他的太太才會當場非常的憤怒拿著東西帶著小孩轉頭就走而且他本來沒有想要帶小孩來的耶是主辦單位鼓勵他帶小孩來參加參加什麼?參加一個販毒的人跟他的父親有過節當場在台上做這樣的演出你覺得這個適合小孩子到現場嗎?"},{"start":7389.741,"end":7394.964,"text":"所以這就是為什麼統神全家會高度憤怒的原因嘛那如果他是故意的、set好的為了我剛剛說的那樣的流量主辦單位已經達到他的目的啦因為這沒有比這個更好的宣傳連你們都被拖下水連你們都當了臨時演員連你們都當了墊背的"},{"start":7417.617,"end":7425.821,"text":"所以啊剛剛很多委員都提到了嘛你們從107年到112年年年補助甚至於112年度還補助高達將近300萬署長如果這個連你都覺得他可能是事先C好的不排除這個可能性"},{"start":7438.151,"end":7462.489,"text":"第一個我覺得你們應該去調查要求主辦單位徹底說明為什麼有安排這件事情出自於什麼樣的動機就是為了衝流量C還叫人家家屬帶著孩子來那如果您覺得跟我們所有的家長所有的國人包括本席一樣覺得這個太離譜太over了"},{"start":7465.197,"end":7476.249,"text":"這恐怕不是你們說跟你們無關要求他們道歉就可以囉如果是主辦單位為了充流量刻意塞好做這麼惡劣的事情"},{"start":7477.816,"end":7504.605,"text":"那你們應該要採取一定的懲罰性的作用吧你應該要求主辦單位第一個是不是應該撤換他們負責的工作人員呢是不是應該對他們的負責人做出一定的懲處呢還有你們未來下個年度的補助難道不需要做一定的修改跟改變嗎這件事情署長當然不可能是因為他們一個道歉然後你們一個切割"},{"start":7505.865,"end":7515.83,"text":"就結束落幕了嗎?你懂嗎?因為你這樣子他道歉值幾個錢啊?他早就想好了,對他來講道歉一點都不困難。這整個C好的衝了這樣子的一個流量,這種惡劣的行徑,"},{"start":7523.911,"end":7548.467,"text":"署長你現在冷靜想想連你們都被玩進去了連你們都被當冤大頭了不採取行動絕對會有下一次這麼加起來幾乎接近百萬的流量對他們來講就是最好的鼓勵這種風氣一定不可以助長所以請署長回答那你們採取什麼樣具體的行為呢"},{"start":7549.939,"end":7563.183,"text":"呃首先呢先報告委員我們之所以這幾年會將他的補助的金額提高是因為張我沒有問你為什麼提高啦為什麼提高你不用再講了你現在告訴我們接下來的作為是什麼就好了接下來基本上我們會針對他的"},{"start":7565.164,"end":7580.2,"text":"活動呢會做一個檢討基本上我們補助的立場都是在選手的培訓為主所以我們並不是補助他的任何的活動完全是在選手的培訓不是你還是沒有回答我的問題第一個你們是不是要求主辦單位提供你們完整的說明報告沒有說明沒有報告"},{"start":7582.762,"end":7593.532,"text":"就這樣子混過去了嗎?第一個是不是應該要求他們提供你們完整的說明報告呢?你們是不是應該主動的調查這件事情到底是誰的主意?誰在負責?為什麼會搞出這麼大的一個這麼離譜的戲來呢?"},{"start":7598.676,"end":7609.018,"text":"這部分我贊同委員的說法,我會去進行。好,那第二個,是不是要求他們內部也要做出他們的檢討跟具體懲處的作為。這個我們已經有去告知,然後我們還在進行當中啦。好,所以他們會有具體的懲處作為出來。我希望他們會有這樣子的結果。那你要要求啊。他如果不照做,你們就不補助嘛。欸,啊不然你們不是被人家當作凱子。但是鮑威,我們還是以選手為主啦。我們不是要去補助他協會的這個運作啊。我們是以選手的培訓經費。"},{"start":7627.441,"end":7633.667,"text":"所以你們完全沒有任何的武器你們只能道德勸說你現在跟我的意思是說你們只能道德勸說他不鳥你也沒有你們也沒有辦法補助還是要照常那只有電競協會只有他們一個人可以鼓勵台灣的電競活動沒有第二個組織沒有任何人可以取代了"},{"start":7647.26,"end":7662.092,"text":"所以你們完全被他們捏在手裡面所以他早就算好了所以他們吃定你們了是這樣嗎?那個時間已經到了那不是這樣是什麼?對不對?全台灣都在關注啊你們要拿出辦法你不可以騙人家撒謊騙人家騙人家你們會變成笑話那個時間到了請尊重主席謝謝部長請回書長請回謝謝鄭麗文委員的質詢再來我們請陳秀寶委員陳秀寶委員質詢完後我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":7678.564,"end":7682.687,"text":"不久之前教育產業公會表示有發現校園公共意外責任險的投保金額有縮水而且意外發生後又因為校方不願承認校園設施或管理有瑕疵"},{"start":7705.365,"end":7721.912,"text":"導致保險公司他不願意理賠他會用一個理由說非學校設施設置管理欠缺這個部分不是他們承保的範圍而導致說如果失聲他有意外的發生是沒有辦法得到保險公司的理賠部長這個部分你們有沒有掌握到這樣的狀況"},{"start":7724.219,"end":7752.486,"text":"跟委員報告那確實目前我們跟國教署每年都有編列這樣的一個經費去做有關學校公共意外責任選的這樣的一個投保的事項那對於這一方面的相關的內容因為他們所講的個別的這個一定要個案去了解啦因為它本來就是屬於在公共保險在學校本來每個意外發生都是個案啊"},{"start":7753.887,"end":7762.396,"text":"所以我說他講的那個事情我們應該去做了解以目前國教署在年度的檢討會議裡面也會將他們所想的這個相關的內容能夠納進來做這些情形﹖所以部長您是有了解到這個狀況就是有請他們把這方面因為他們"},{"start":7774.048,"end":7794.314,"text":"教育部這邊鄉部長您說的每年都有編列這個保險的這個預算來協助學校來投保這個公共意外責任險那就是為了讓我們學校的師生他有保障嘛萬一有什麼意外發生的時候但實際上發生校園意外呢在保險上他不是認定存款那也會有他就是有這樣子的理由啊"},{"start":7794.754,"end":7818.432,"text":"就擺明了就說這個不在我們城堡的範圍因為你校方竟然不承認是你們疏失但是以校方來講校方他承認的說是設置設施有問題或是管理不當的話其實他們還會面臨到公務人員懲戒的這個部分所以有時候會因為說而是校方保護自己他沒有辦法去承認說是我們校方有疏失那保險公司又因為這樣的理由不理賠那你其實你這個教育部的這個美意就是說"},{"start":7818.792,"end":7838.375,"text":"委員 這個部分 剛才我講個案的意思也是要特別提醒這一段如果學校方因為擔心有行政責任、環境設施造成危害而不願意去面對而影響到師生可能受影響的這部分"},{"start":7838.755,"end":7865.563,"text":"我想這部分我們一定要跟尤其是跟地方政府必須要嚴正的去做這方面的督導因為到底是什麼造成傷害這個其實是一個客觀的事實不應該只是說哪一方為了擔心有責任的問題結果讓受傷的這一端受到沒辦法去做這個就完全撕掉當時保險的目標目的了所以我想我為什麼會跟委員剛才報告的那個"},{"start":7866.403,"end":7889.966,"text":"情形是要個案的去做這方面我們會去加強督導部長這樣子從您的回答應該就是說你們大概也了解這個狀況那這個部分我希望說教育部你們這邊去了解一下這兩年來關於校園意外的發生跟理賠的這個狀況怎麼樣你們去評估是不是有必要去調整你們相關的規定那你兩個月之內呢"},{"start":7891.727,"end":7916.751,"text":"我想這部分委員我們再來盤一下也會收集一下他們因為有時候像一些團體他們在第一線會看到一些現象我想這一部分我們也會希望把意見能夠收集過來因為保險就是希望維護師生萬一受到這些意外那你投保了之後用這種理由來拒絕理賠的話那其實師生的權益沒有得到保障了了解好 謝謝部長那我請署長 第一署長署長"},{"start":7922.113,"end":7931.581,"text":"委員好署長今天其實每一個委員都在關心這件事情就是我們這個電競協會的這個爭議在頒獎典禮發生了這樣的爭議因為這個頒獎的嘉賓竟然是一位一審已經是判四年兩個月二審都維持原判的這樣子的一個很嚴重的這樣子刑責的一個人士來擔任頒獎的貴賓"},{"start":7944.753,"end":7949.054,"text":"那體育署當然你們在事後有發出聲明表示說這個活動你們沒有提供補助也沒有參與活動的規劃也沒有同意要擔任這個指導單位那簡單來說體育署就是認為說你們沒有補助這個活動也沒有參與這個活動的規劃所以這個事件跟體育署沒有關係但是其實這邊要提醒體育署電競協會呢官網上就有明確標示說電競協會是體育署唯一指定電競事務委辦的單位"},{"start":7971.641,"end":7986.868,"text":"所以體育署你們本來就對這些運動學會有監督之責啦那每年體育署你們也編列預算來補助這些協會所以在協會的相關評鑑你們也是很有機會來進行相關的監督那你們在聲明中有提到說會加強輔導該協會那你們目前預計有什麼措施?"},{"start":7991.923,"end":8004.929,"text":"報告委員基本上我們在每年都會有所謂的協會的訪評那針對這次發展事件我們列入協會訪評的一個依據之一那會對他明年的年度工作計畫的一個補助款相信會有一些一定會有很大的影響"},{"start":8005.991,"end":8022.798,"text":"體育署是我們教育部的下級機關對於毒品零容忍這個態度是不容質疑我相信說教育部、體育署對這樣的態度你們是很堅決的就是我們對毒品是零容忍的但是是不是有就是藉由這個機會我們來檢討我們來制定一個準則規範一下相關活動出席人員尤其是擔任頒獎的人員不能有爭議的狀況那選手好不容易他去努力他得到這樣優勝的殊榮"},{"start":8034.802,"end":8054.238,"text":"應該有一個合適的身份合適的人來頒獎是尊重選手的表現那相關機制的檢討之後我們是不是研議定義一個準則規範這個部分署長你怎麼回答這部分報告委員我們會我們贊同委員的說法這部分我回去會進行這件事情制定相關的準則供協會來參考"},{"start":8055.983,"end":8073.109,"text":"制定相關的準則那如果說萬一有這樣子不好的就是對整個我們的政策相背離的這樣的事件發生的時候我們有什麼規範可以來除了監督他之外我們還有什麼規範可以來約束他們"},{"start":8073.689,"end":8085.444,"text":"我們最主要的部分大概是補助款的部分的一個遞減當然還有一個更重要的是我們可以將它暫時的停權這部分我想這部分我們都會進行來演繹因為對於這樣子一個很相當離譜的錯誤我們其實應該給他們嚴厲的譴責跟嚴厲的懲罰"},{"start":8092.833,"end":8102.804,"text":"有時候不管他是用一個怎樣的效果在呈現但是其實都這個是其實在挑戰你們體育署好那這個部分我請你們研議相關的規範那也要一個進度給本席辦公室接下來呢"},{"start":8108.851,"end":8124.532,"text":"關於今天我們要審的這個部分就是在體育黃牛票的這個部分大家都非常的關心上週日的這個亞錦賽開打就是一萬七千人入場這個大家是非常的踴躍非常的"},{"start":8125.453,"end":8140.641,"text":"就對這個賽事大家是非常的開心很期待那中韓大戰的這個票瞬間秒殺內產生了這個很多黃牛亂象球迷也表示說他真的很想看比賽所以他不得不花了兩倍的價格去買黃牛票"},{"start":8142.822,"end":8162.301,"text":"那之前吳浩步其實針對這個藝文票的黃牛票的部分除了制定法則之外也跟票卷業者來研議票卷實名制當然說以我們現在如果說要落實實名制的這個部分也許在我們賽場的部分可能還有一些技術性帶突破那除了這些"},{"start":8163.752,"end":8180.94,"text":"法則之外我們體育署跟賽事業者我們有沒有實際去討論說如何來剛剛講了說這個實名制他的技術上如何克服你們有去討論嗎?報告委員基本上這件事情針對實名制的部分我們其實有找相關業者來談"},{"start":8182.2,"end":8202.538,"text":"目前我們會去輔導業者、鼓勵他們去針對售票系統、它本身的科技以及在兼顧隱私的情況之下能夠鼓勵他們採取在這種台韓大戰這種重要的場次能夠盡可能採取實名制然後也讓球迷能夠盡可能的快速的進場那這邊我們正在演繹當中"},{"start":8204.966,"end":8230.937,"text":"在我們黃牛票的法則如果訂定之後呢體育署要如何落實也是必須要事先來規劃那文化部這邊有個做法他是在查緝這個黃牛票的部分呢他是有跟警政署來跨部會合作一個專案打牛小組那在文化部的網站他有設置一個檢舉黃牛票區讓民眾來檢舉如果認定的是相符合的要件會分案到地方政府來進行後續的裁罰那"},{"start":8233.058,"end":8255.615,"text":"體育署在這個黃牛票查緝執行的部分你們會不會參考文化部的做法為了減少這個行政資源的浪費是不是請體育署也可以一起加入這個專案導流小組這個部分你們有沒有什麼新的規劃還是說也可以參考這樣做我們基本上會參考文化部的做法來一起做這件事情當然也會一起攜手跟各縣市政府的檢警調一起來攜手看能不能夠在落實這個執行的部分"},{"start":8257.657,"end":8262.099,"text":"因為其實黃牛票這麼猖獗讓真正想要參與賽事想要參加的人、民眾他搶不到票然後必須花費更多的資源去想辦法得到這張票對真正要參與的民眾是非常不公平的所以說不管在藝文表演不管是我們賽事我們都希望說黃牛票這個法則我們訂了之後是可以落實的"},{"start":8282.509,"end":8294.637,"text":"那這個部分呢那署長您這邊也說會參考文化部的這個做法我們也希望說把這個修這個法能夠修得更完善能夠保護民眾的權益主席再給我一分鐘那接下來要請教就是說我們2024的八年奧運即將到來"},{"start":8298.479,"end":8308.754,"text":"提署你們在今年四月的時候也到巴黎有實地的考察來評估相關的這個後勤工作的規劃那這個部分呢我想了解說誰對的這些人員裡面誰對運動心理師你們這次有沒有配置"},{"start":8314.662,"end":8333.621,"text":"我們這次會有運動心理諮商相關的人員會做配置那如果說代表團進不去我們也會在中繼站的部分列入工作團那這部分我們會盡可能讓有跟我們取得奧運資格選手相關的這些心理諮商人員都能夠過去巴黎"},{"start":8335.623,"end":8363.59,"text":"因為在這樣高壓的環境之下我們選手可能隨時處在比較緊繃的情緒所以就是需要這些隨隊的人員來協助我們的選手那另外我要提醒體育署因為國際的情勢一直在變動那在巴黎奧運開幕的時候有恐攻的狀況發生那到明年奧運期間有沒有這樣的情勢其實這個部分也請我們體育署要注意說要制定相關緊急應變措施萬一有什麼緊急的事"},{"start":8364.95,"end":8373.42,"text":"這個事件發生的時候讓我們的選手可以再根據這些我們教導他們這個部分來做一個安全的回覆這個部分來請你們注意時間到了後續再跟陳秀寶委員回覆好謝謝部長署長那謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢我們休息五分鐘五分鐘後繼續開會"},{"start":8697.366,"end":8708.324,"text":"好,我們繼續開會。現在請陳培余委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。那有請部長。好,有請潘部長。"},{"start":8714.189,"end":8730.944,"text":"部長早安我想要先幫部長說一下部長跟署長辛苦了關於這兩天這個電競事件不過我們真的認真研究完資料我要幫你們說其實你們真的沒有補助然後也沒有一些剛剛這些問題不過而且我們也知道其實教育部跟體育署長期以來對於毒品"},{"start":8731.084,"end":8731.705,"text":"關於零容忍的部分"},{"start":8752.383,"end":8774.639,"text":"我們在想應該不會只有口號其實有非常多事情而且會透過個案像這兩天這個個案不斷表現出來然後也必須要讓教育部跟體育署做出回應按不下去等一下不好意思好那我想跟部長聊一下其實從我們從2月底補到現在大概10個多月我們發現了其實有很多像假球事件、兒虐事件、性騷事件"},{"start":8776.181,"end":8796.199,"text":"相關的事情的研究我們發現回到體育署的主管相關業務裡面相關的兒少事件我們發現有很多所謂大人的當事人他們其實就算在相關的懲處之後他們都還是有機會一再一再的回到體育跟教育的現場造成受害者的二次傷害甚至他們"},{"start":8796.96,"end":8797.14,"text":"二、審查 ﹗"},{"start":8815.103,"end":8844.25,"text":"在最左邊這張投影片在講假球事件是澎湖國小在今年五月邀請了打假球的張志佳到學校去進行上課跟指導那我相信體育署相關的說法其實我們也討論過這不是專任教練而且他可能也不會考教練證可是我想部長跟署長您來自基層教育系統您一定了解像這樣子打假球的教練他進到學校裡面他帶給孩子什麼樣的潛在教育的影響這個部分我相信部長您一定認同我們共同有的擔心"},{"start":8844.89,"end":8867.543,"text":"第二個中間這個兒虐事件是在之前我們跟苗博雅議員的辦公室共同追蹤那教育委員會陳秀寶委員也有質詢過相關的案子這個當事人在去年10月被揭露對小球員施虐那相關的調查事件之後呢也被兒少法裁罰都沒有問題相關的法規看起來都補上了可是在體育署補助的相關賽事裡面這個人依然大搖大擺的以顧問的名義繼續現身"},{"start":8871.186,"end":8889.468,"text":"最右邊信騷事件我相信信騷事件我想部長跟署長都非常熟悉我們就不再多說所以這麼多這麼多我要講的是現行的法規我們好像看似已經做了一些處理可是我們可不可以更積極的做一些事情呢例如說不要讓這些人說他們是人民團體就沒事了或者是說像這一次體育署這個"},{"start":8890.75,"end":8902.964,"text":"電競事件我必須說我覺得對體育署來說可能是一個烏龍狀況所以可不可以我們今天花一些時間討論零容忍不要只是口號而是我們可不可以有一個更積極的作為我想要提出一個建議下一張謝謝"},{"start":8906.775,"end":8928.355,"text":"我們可不可以建立一個所謂不受歡迎對象名單,讓這些名單裡面的人,一旦他們在以後教育部所屬的機關學校、教育部相關補助對象、教育部補助的相關輔導團體,他們可以有所依循。其實教育部之前在2009年的假求事件,就已經建立了一個教育部黑名單。"},{"start":8929.156,"end":8932.499,"text":"所以其實有相關潛力可循那我必須要說這個所謂不受歡迎的名單我們想像的是不影響他的工作權我們也不影響他個人各式各樣的職業來發展可是就像這一次這個事情一樣"},{"start":8945.09,"end":8949.215,"text":"如果我們有這個名單可以依循讓相關的機關學校補助對象輔導團體他們可以在第一時間知道說教育部原來有一個這樣的名單所以大家在邀請專家學者邀請評審的時候是不是就不要把這些大人排入每一次合作的對象裡頭讓"},{"start":8963.05,"end":8978.024,"text":"學校機關輔導團體補助對象可以有所依據不要讓大家過去再用所謂愛於人情這樣的事情來好像難以拒絕這樣子的可能性合作的可能性不知道說到這邊為止部長你有什麼想法有沒有可能性"},{"start":8978.804,"end":8997.308,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員這個提醒很重要但執行面這個我們確實也要確說一個原因我跟委員報告我們對於因為接觸兒童、學童的一些我們有一個界定那當然也有一個程序那個程序所指的就是"},{"start":8997.888,"end":9013.982,"text":"對,就是我剛說法規面,確實都已經完備了。對,對,因為那個法規面,我想我應該常常也知道,就是說事切的方式應該訂到哪個範圍。這個確實我們要...那我跟部長分享一個,我之前跟忠誠教育司開會,不是故意要講出來,我跟那個部裡面的一個部會開會,"},{"start":9014.983,"end":9032.525,"text":"那他們當時有提到要辦家庭教育的活動他們就說他們要請一個明星當那個活動的代言人我就不講那個明星是誰一個男的藝人當時他有非常良好的愛家爸爸愛家男人的形象結果呢那個教育部的司長就跟我說要找他來當那個活動的代言人偏偏那個活動是跟家庭教育有關"},{"start":9033.166,"end":9055.481,"text":"我一聽到那個名字我就問司長跟他的幕僚說你們要確定喔?確定要找這個人嗎?我問了三次為什麼我這麼問呢?因為當時那個人雖然愛家形象非常良好但是他過往在他的臉書上發言分享過他如何打他的小孩他的小孩因為玩具沒有燒好所以他就怎麼打他那當然怎麼打小孩這件事情我相信教育部或者是法務部對於家內靈體法這件事情大家都積極在推進可是當"},{"start":9057.162,"end":9078.281,"text":"教育部的活動要請這樣一個代言人的時候那我不會說是司長的問題我也不會說是教育部的疏漏而是我們每天都這麼忙我們不可能注意到每天哪些人又發生了什麼事情所以可不可以這個名單在合乎相關法規或是我們來討論相關的配套設置辦法讓我說的所有的機關學校、補助團體或者是各式各樣的活動計畫"},{"start":9079.162,"end":9085.666,"text":"他們在邀請當評審、當頒獎人、當教練、當講師當合作對象顧問的時候他們至少有所依據說暫時先避開尤其是如果他們拿的是跟教育部有關的補助那不要到時候出了事情又掛到教育部頭上所以我在說不影響他們的工作權也不影響他們的專業職涯發展讓相關的團體他們可以自己做出選擇、做出決定當然相關的配套辦法這個部分我們再討論因為我剛剛跟委員報告方向是我想是很"},{"start":9106.977,"end":9107.037,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9127.148,"end":9130.472,"text":"那我們是不是有機會我們辦公室再跟相關的部會再討論好不好那最後因為還有一點時間我想跟部長跟署長討論其實我們辦公室從二月開始我們追了非常多跟體育有關的兒少的題目那我要講一下其實這真的是來自於我長期對兒少題目的關懷"},{"start":9146.269,"end":9153.615,"text":"而且也不是只有針對教育部其實我到各個委員會去質詢全部也都是做跟兒少有關為什麼要做這些事情其實兩公約國內實行國內法實行之後其實我相信所謂的國際人權或者是兒童人權對非常多的行政機關來說都非常非常的陌生甚至要怎麼樣把那些法規變成是可實行的政策而不只是理念跟價值觀的宣導"},{"start":9170.249,"end":9181.717,"text":"我認為其實真的對教育部還有其他部會都是困難的我必須說但是在這個困難的路上我真心想要說的是這些事情他真的必須要持續推進就像一直以來跟部長還有署長討論的不管是因為體育班的政策或是社區運動團隊"},{"start":9185.7,"end":9207.438,"text":"或者是我們看到體育暴力不當霸凌體罰的事情一再的發生我們都想要誠心的拜託部長跟署長在後續的非常多政策推動上一定要始終相信站在兒少為主的出發角度這件事情是重要而且必要的在很多政策上我們要幫孩子們想得更多因為對於很多家長、大人、教練、老師來說其實我剛剛說兩公約也是陌生的"},{"start":9210.6,"end":9231.653,"text":"那就真的必須要靠中央主管機關在法規上、在政策推動面上、在計畫實行上都把這些事情當成是第一、第一、第一的優先尤其是我們想要推動大家願意生、願意養那這件事情它回到國教系統它就是真的希望教育部可以持續努力的這個部分那這個部分比較是我對部長真心跟對署長的拜託"},{"start":9232.453,"end":9251.009,"text":"謝謝委員,我也完全認同,因為我想這些年在整個教育政策的推動,確實就是以學生為主體這個核心概念,那有些可能還做得不夠,我想委員這部分我們會繼續加油。好,我們就也一起加油,那因為只有一點點時間,我就分享到這邊,謝謝主席,謝謝部長、署長,謝謝。好,部長請回,署長請回,謝謝陳佩玉委員的質詢,再來我們請張綺路委員。"},{"start":9264.67,"end":9265.851,"text":"有請潘部長、鄭時中、鄭署長"},{"start":9315.313,"end":9321.778,"text":"那個...那個都是誰...誰在弄的?是他們會裡面自己的電腦嗎?什麼拔掉?他的以為是電話結果電腦直接死掉"},{"start":9345.009,"end":9349.306,"text":"二、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":9371.596,"end":9392.511,"text":"行政院函請審議第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":9404.888,"end":9424.525,"text":"二、審查),一、審查),一、審查),二、審查),一、審查),二、審查),一、審查),一、審查),"},{"start":9429.252,"end":9452.56,"text":"二、審查),一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":9455.186,"end":9465.475,"text":"現在有遇到那個電腦技術問題我們是不是先休息一下等到電腦處理完之後我們再恢復開會先休息一下部長先請回"},{"start":9661.223,"end":9664.889,"text":"好,我們那個技術解決了恢復開會,那現在我們請張綺路委員質詢,已經上台。請潘部長跟署長,謝謝。"},{"start":9673.394,"end":9696.772,"text":"委員好 部長好 還有署長部長我想今天大家都在關鍵這個問題我們還是也是在最後談一下就是說簡單講這件事我們不贅述了就是說現在這個他沒有經過這個指導單位同意就把你們列為那這個到底有沒有法律的問題啊就部長或署長"},{"start":9698.189,"end":9714.871,"text":"跟委員報告確實體育署有關的體育運動團體非常多他們也多次有提到給各個團體如果要列名應該要徵得主管機關的同流這個任何應該都是同樣的那它是後續會有法律的問題嗎?"},{"start":9717.374,"end":9730.566,"text":"這部分我也請署長這邊因為對這個事件一個當然是這個未經同意把名字機關名字掛上去的問題那另外一個就是這個事件因為體育署還是具有輔導監督相關"},{"start":9733.108,"end":9762.037,"text":"負責應用團體的責任,因為這方面應該說是輔導也希望他能夠就緒,對這個事件我想提署應該要跟要求電競協會這邊要提出整體事件的我們應該做一個深入的了解跟做後續的處置。好,其實這部長這樣聽起來就是說反正總是要有一方比較負比較多一點的責任,當然部長當然意思講說我們是監督嘛,"},{"start":9762.637,"end":9782.859,"text":"雖然事前都不知道啦,但這個事情確實對電競,而且對我們國家對於毒品的防治理想上是非常嚴肅的,所以我說這個是應該進一步的做這方面的了解。好,謝謝部長。當然最主要是說大家還是要弄清楚啦,如果是真的責任更多是在"},{"start":9784.363,"end":9803.984,"text":"主辦方那邊的話那當然我們這樣子也是我甚至覺得我們還是要有一個比較明確的啦真的這個整個班的後續大家會覺得好像在踢皮球的感覺往下就因為為什麼因為這件事本身是這樣講他過去2021的時候我們知道他是那個時候沒有掛"},{"start":9805.282,"end":9823.617,"text":"二二開始掛今年掛那現在這個問題就是這樣子它已經算是他們協會的一個常態性活動了而且是從二二二一、二二才開始有這件事之前反而沒有那再往下當然這個東西就是坊間也有人質疑說我們是有補這個協會這些錢嗎"},{"start":9826.019,"end":9847.632,"text":"那尤其是說從22年開始多了這個30萬大家就有點合理在想說是不是多了30萬就是讓他做這個協會當然我知道啦這個也很難這樣講因為反正我們預算是有增加但是也不是說這個增加的預算就是鐵定是幫他辦這場活動所以現在這個問題就是這樣子啊就是說大家可以都有一點切割的理由啦"},{"start":9848.452,"end":9873.459,"text":"那因為我們也可以這樣講教育部體育署也可以說我們之前有補這個電競協會那但電競協會他到底在做什麼這我們也所以說實話我們是有點尷尬的立場就是我們不是沒有補助他你看我們每年也編了這個這麼多錢200多萬290萬以上在協助他那但是到底他拿了這個錢在做哪些事情這個再直接往下"},{"start":9874.597,"end":9894.814,"text":"這個就是就變成是說我們這工作計畫到底我們是指導單位那他們的工作計畫是不是他們又要怎麼分得很細因為我坦白講預算在他們手上了他們會不會流用我們其實也不見得是完全這麼清晰啦所以哪些活動變成我們屬於是指導的"},{"start":9895.535,"end":9914.347,"text":"哪些我們不用因為按照我們這個辦法其實我們也有寫嘛如果是有這個這些事的齁如果在工作計畫內的我們就會是指導單位囉那所以這個東西就是說這個切分齁因為坦白說啦國人也不見得或者民間也不見得會搞那麼懂啦民間只有一個感覺就是說"},{"start":9915.248,"end":9935.481,"text":"教育部是有拿錢補助協會的那協會辦了一些事情那協會所辦的那是不是我們要蓋鍋承受所有協會的事情這我們也所以我就覺得說今天既然這個問題已經出來了我們還是這樣講就未來制度面到底怎麼樣會比較更沒有問題部長怎麼看呢或署長"},{"start":9937.432,"end":9964.338,"text":"跟委員報告那個細節也許我比較請署長跟委員報告因為真的比較難去處理到單項但是跟委員報告因為我們補助協會的這部分尤其是特定運動體育這個就是跟亞奧運對接的項目基本上的目標就是選手跟選手的培訓跟比賽比賽比如像委員們都會關心這個選手去異地比賽或現在要爭取奧運門牌門票的這個"},{"start":9966.838,"end":9967.278,"text":"二、審查),一、審查゚✧"},{"start":9986.587,"end":10000.992,"text":"就是部長當然我們在乎的還是說這個後續以後的標準不然還是是不是署長您也可以說明就這個case之後您覺得署裡面以後再掛這個指導單位它那個切分要怎麼樣才精準請署長跟您報告"},{"start":10003.19,"end":10011.415,"text":"保委員過去體育署一再的行文宣導各個協會如果要讓體育署來掛名指導單一定要來文那我們內部其實有一個審理原則啦比如說本署有參與規劃辦理的活動啦或者是它競賽規程活動計畫有送過來備查啦有公益性質啦或是公部門行政法人所舉辦的這部分我們才會同意那事實上它在2022年的時候它也有來文"},{"start":10029.386,"end":10045.451,"text":"來希望我們掛指導單位但是我們婉拒了所以我們從2022開始其實就沒有去擔任他們的指導單位好 謝謝署長師講我覺得這件事就是第一個就是說我們把它落實剛才您講的這個準則沒有問題第二個就是說真的後續要查查"},{"start":10046.371,"end":10065.922,"text":"像他這種case竟然出來了我覺得當然我們還是可以把它講清楚對不對我們其實已經拒絕你這樣子了結果你還是這樣子所以我才說他前頭是有他的法律問題的啦好不好所以我覺得說既然這已經發生了也是要向社會澄清清楚啦謝謝署長那部長再麻煩您後面還有幾個小問題啦"},{"start":10068.544,"end":10078.675,"text":"部長 這個是 這跟署長沒關的啦這部長 這我們竟然有這種當然這我們也沒辦法真的直接管你看這都境外很多你看這有個亞洲最大包養網站"},{"start":10080.559,"end":10104.255,"text":"而且這些東西你看這個他說接受保養的女性每月獲得六萬多的零用金而且這裡面有四成可能都是女學生講難聽一點我們的學生其實心智也就是他也年輕甚至都是未成年這非常的偏差這有沒有辦法我們有沒有辦法在學校的教育上讓大家尤其我們的學生不然這個真的搞不好很嚴重以後部長"},{"start":10107.016,"end":10122.66,"text":"對這個議題我們有進一步的去了解只是說這個部分如果我們說涉及對像談到的對女性的這方面確實本身都可能會有觸犯"},{"start":10123.92,"end":10151.976,"text":"當然法律的相關的問題啦這個如果我進一步可能我們需要跟警政這個有沒有辦法可能要跟警政單位我們了解一下司法部啊、警政單位啊我覺得才能知道因為它是一個訊息我比較教育單位比較不容易說很深入去了解它的情況但是這裡面有提到說它可能會涉及女學生的這部分我想我們可能跨部會了解一下其實現在就是說沒有錯啦ICT的這個引進對於我們這個現代教育是很重要可是現在也同樣的這個"},{"start":10153.097,"end":10153.357,"text":"二、審查 »:一、審查),"},{"start":10172.364,"end":10193.792,"text":"原頭啦好不好這個麻煩部長最後還有一個小問題喔部長這就是最後30秒部長這個臺大校長昨天來講這件事喔您覺得呢我們是利益良善加薪做了這些事情可是是不是能夠更彈性一點呢因為坦白說其實說實話這就是我一路一直在主張的啦其實認真講陳校長講這件事"},{"start":10195.993,"end":10208.499,"text":"他終極結案是什麼?就是我們像這種公立學校應該公法人化呀,他講的這些問題都解決了啊。所以這個是不是,既然陳校長已經提出這樣的一個說法了,部長怎麼看呢?"},{"start":10209.178,"end":10232.511,"text":"我跟委員報告齁當然陳校長談的細節我沒那麼但是如果就提到提供比如待遇的這方面為什麼我們會積極去處理除了一致性的提高學術研究費15%加薪以外為什麼會有一個彈性的制度那彈性的制度即使教育部都是相對應的陳校長意思就是沒那麼彈性"},{"start":10236.514,"end":10256.332,"text":"教育部其實有好多的制度是幫他解開但學校如果迫於壓力而希望起頭那我覺得這個做法就有點讓這個可能性變成好像那就是最好教育部統一規定統一規定又說又是一個大鍋飯所以這個裡面有一點點矛盾我說制度是彈性的"},{"start":10257.433,"end":10273.391,"text":"資源也是給予的那至於聘任的這部分教育部也這次也謝謝之前跟人事總署我們也溝通即使大學的名額已經也有相當的可開放但是大學必須要附有財務規劃你不能說我這一任的校長我拼命的聘人"},{"start":10273.991,"end":10285.185,"text":"最後學校人事會負擔你又說我負擔不起我又要中央補助這個才是把這樣的彈性加上他自己能夠去做規劃我覺得這個才是比較正確應該是這樣我覺得最後一句就是說當然陳校長台大陳校長這也已經他是點到核心的問題我覺得這個問題的本質我們最終"},{"start":10292.433,"end":10320.061,"text":"還是我覺得還是要思考清楚當然我是我來自高教界我自己是認為真的這個是需要的是結構性的轉變不然的話其實是這些問題是很難解的我也同意部長你今天你定規則也是有問題不定也是有問題所以最終我還是加強我自己的一個呼籲一個倡議其實公立學校公立的大學其實真的往公法人的方向去走邁進我覺得這可能是最終極的一個解方謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":10321.981,"end":10323.962,"text":"謝謝張綺路委員、謝謝部長接下來有請范雲委員謝謝主席有請潘部長跟鄭署長謝謝"},{"start":10342.195,"end":10360.26,"text":"部長早安還有署長早安今天就兩題一個是跟黃金計劃有關另外一個就是我們今天的主題巴黎奧運相關性別平等的準備這個怎麼下一頁沒有幫我下一頁這個好像又當機了"},{"start":10362.72,"end":10374.373,"text":"沒關係,我用口頭問好了,避免那個時間。黃金計畫我想是我們一個非常重要的計畫,因為我們投入了非常多的資源,也跟我們備戰奧運相當有關。那大家會很關心說是誰來決定誰能夠獲得黃金計畫的支持。"},{"start":10382.603,"end":10395.595,"text":"因為我們從107年到110年就編列了24億那他是我們政府一個非常重要的體育資源重點協助說誰是有奪牌潛力的精英選手可是當我們想了解這個黃金計畫下一頁的時候"},{"start":10399.618,"end":10423.869,"text":"就發現說他的這個決定機制蠻神秘的就是他有一個競強會然後就是總副召集就是國訓中心的正副執行長那其委員呢就是國訓中心執行長聘任所以看起來國訓中心執行長就是幾乎可以決定那他怎麼樣的委員那我並不是說他的決定不好只是說這個權力是蠻集中的"},{"start":10426.71,"end":10435.18,"text":"可是我們發現我們進一步想要下一頁想去了解說可不可以知道一下過去這個競強會的委員是怎麼樣的名單就發現這個名單沒有辦法索取後來索取到的時候是遮蔽第一次我們索取的時候遮蔽全名"},{"start":10444.952,"end":10459.849,"text":"後來第二次索取的時候是沒有遮蔽還是是密件所以我想這個是已經形同如國防一樣的這麼的神秘的資料嗎那後來我們再繼續想了解因為主要是我覺得這個一般"},{"start":10460.389,"end":10480.357,"text":"我對於這種審查委員就是說決定前不公開是可以理解的可是已經決定名單之後一段時間好像應該公開可是體育署是拿法務部的資訊告訴我們說這是內部意見資訊公開將有礙於最後決定之做成可是決定已經做成嘛那如果是之前的"},{"start":10481.077,"end":10495.262,"text":"作成決定後,如果內部擬搞公開,仍有可能造成相同困擾,不予提供或公開。我覺得這個是有一點點奇怪,因為如果你們的遴選原則是很公平的,"},{"start":10495.862,"end":10519.23,"text":"委員本來就應該要受到檢視我們不管是什麼獎項或者是我們國科會的審查那現在因為政府資訊公開這個並不是內部您搞或是說誰寫談餐給您這樣的事情而且依照我們政府資訊公開法的第三條對公益有必要者得公開或提供之我想"},{"start":10519.75,"end":10543.558,"text":"不管是任何一個協會或是任何一個選手想了解的話這都是公共利益吧立法委員要質詢的話也是公共利益所以我今天是針對下一頁就是我覺得公開透明可問責應該是我們不能退讓的核心價值政府尤其是體育署這麼重要的計劃"},{"start":10544.378,"end":10555.967,"text":"我覺得應該要檢討一下我們這個委員領選的方式跟選手選拔的標準怎麼樣讓各界覺得是很有公信力當然我這邊是寫立即公開但我想你們應該評估一下那我給大家參考的是國科會"},{"start":10560.751,"end":10588.862,"text":"他的網站上就寫得很清楚為營造公平公正的審查環境將公開出副審委員名單接受外界檢視名單於每年申付結束後12月底前公開因為我們國科會也是決定上千萬甚至更高的經費預算每年一定會有爭議嘛你覺得他很優秀那他覺得他沒申請到那除了有一個副審、申付機制之外委員的審查名單會整體公開"},{"start":10590.643,"end":10604.931,"text":"不會公開說你的就是誰審的可是總是有一個一群人在做決定那這個部分我覺得對於爭議的敏評跟體育署跟政府的公信力很重要那不知道能不能三個月內這兩點都給我一個檢討的報告呢"},{"start":10609.234,"end":10630.428,"text":"謝謝昭緯我想事後公開相關委員的名單這方面我覺得我會請這個國性中心應該要來嚴處這樣的方向因為確實我們很多事前比較不宜啦因為事前可能會造成一些不必要的因為事前怕被去影響啦、關說啦反而影響他的客觀專業性"},{"start":10633.13,"end":10649.08,"text":"但是事後公開這也是一個必要讓社會了解我們這個這樣的所營聘到的這些委員所以我想這個方向謝謝召委我們會往您的提的方向來做處理好那你們以後邀請的時候也可以事先聲明你們會在什麼時候"},{"start":10649.48,"end":10650.141,"text":"公平、公正、公開"},{"start":10665.597,"end":10691.438,"text":"謝謝部長承諾,那就給你們三個月的時間再來關於巴黎奧運,我們都知道他這次宣誓是性別平等由始以來他要做到男女選手數量相同當然我們台灣其實在選手的部分已經相同了女性選手還更高,我們東京奧運的時候男子33名女子35名落實性別平等值得肯定"},{"start":10692.259,"end":10719.064,"text":"可是就是說除了選手平等之外我比較關心的是那他們有沒有平等參與決策那今天剛剛部長的報告裡面有逐步做到可是我是覺得還是可以更積極一點那國際奧林匹克委員會已經達到委員本身的性別平等了你可以看到就是我們這邊在網站上他找到的資料2013年的時候他們女生其實只有20%可是2022年"},{"start":10722.185,"end":10734.711,"text":"他已經做到男女各辦五百四十六位委員中一比一我想他三十一個委員會中女性也超過四成這個就是創下紀錄再下一頁我們看一下臺灣"},{"start":10738.152,"end":10767.592,"text":"二零一三年的時候我們跟他很接近啦他八比二我們九比一可是人家這個九年十年內進步這麼快我們二零二二年奧委會的組成還是八比二停留在就是說落後十年啦我想那個部長中華奧會是我們這麼重要一個體育的協會我們要參加前進巴黎奧運不能女性選手一比一可是決策者完全沒有性別平等啊那這部分"},{"start":10768.652,"end":10785.761,"text":"還有包含在下一頁單項協會問題也很大女性比例也非常的低禮監事還高一點禮監事的話不到五分之一女選手超過男生協會理事都是男性這個"},{"start":10787.202,"end":10793.266,"text":"我覺得這個不大對等吧我相信優秀的女性願意擔任理事的應該很多那這個有很多網絡他就是說各方面的問題那是不是請下一頁就是我們體育署也請部長監督"},{"start":10805.595,"end":10823.681,"text":"是不是趕快來研究一下如何支持單向協會理事性別是不是能夠保障入法那如何保障我們體育場域裡面已經有實力甚至超過的男性我們女性能夠在決策權當中也能夠達到一個奧會的水平呢?"},{"start":10824.901,"end":10852.438,"text":"是 謝謝昭緯我想在今天的報告裡面大概也跟昭緯還有委員這邊有報告目前我們的做法啦包含體育署這邊因為在這個單項協會或奧會他們委員是有他的任期制那在這個過程體育署有特別在含資給我們相關的單項協會包含也跟中澳奧會這邊啦因為這也是一個國際的"},{"start":10853.419,"end":10859.625,"text":"局勢我們要去前進巴黎奧運決策者都是男性不搭配吧選手女性還更多我跟昭緯報告一下像剛才講那個8比2其實他有再提升一點我有看過大概他明知道三成多了但是這個"},{"start":10869.033,"end":10873.254,"text":"我們比較希望因為這個體育團體很特別他們也都會對接到國際的不管中華奧會對國際奧會各單項對國際他們其實這個規範我相信臺灣也應該會朝這個方向來做我們會盡最大的力量來輔導跟協助單項我們總要跟國際對接但過程"},{"start":10894.099,"end":10903.962,"text":"因為有任期,也有他一些,也許馬上入法這件事情。好,那不然你們評估一下是不是能夠入法好不好?因為單項協會可能需要入法我們才能處理。是,我想那一些可能真的要,我們在因為上一次之後,上一個應該說選舉之後,那體育署這邊確實有給單項協會有把這個,他們自己也都知道國際也往這個方向在走啦。"},{"start":10919.726,"end":10923.611,"text":"只是那個任期間我們來加速輔導跟他們做一些討論女選手已經超過男選手的比例了對不對所以這邊應該要加速因為他們遊夏場的改革好像出現狀況這個部分我跟昭緯報告就我們對女選手、女的團隊"},{"start":10935.985,"end":10936.566,"text":"請部長監督體育署,評估能不能修法。"},{"start":10966.065,"end":10966.745,"text":"有請部長跟署長"},{"start":10992.29,"end":11001.975,"text":"爾文好大家早安只有短短的八分鐘有好幾個問題想要來就教於兩位好我就進入我的主題下一頁"},{"start":11003.464,"end":11024.618,"text":"其實我看待這個電競協會的這件事情我一開始真的替教育部抱屈也覺得你們是受害者被拖下水但是越探究這個事件的本質我越覺得教育部不能只是消極性的澄清應當要有更積極性的作為"},{"start":11026.019,"end":11041.252,"text":"我終整這整個事件有三個不良、三個不公以及三個我們要檢討的部分三大不良也就是協會在主辦這樣一個重要的頒獎典禮的規劃是不良的包括它冒用了我們體育署的主辦單位的名義 對不對"},{"start":11047.057,"end":11064.147,"text":"包括他刻意的去安排TOYS這樣一個爭議人物、毒販來頒獎給跟他的宿仇、宿敵捧神然後衍生了甚至我看來也真的是恐怕就是有製造聲量的不良意圖"},{"start":11065.154,"end":11083.733,"text":"所以第一個不良就是他在規劃設計這整個典禮本身的居心不良第二個班長典禮上沒想到這個副理事長陳柏壽再補一槍啊他在典禮上的發言我不曉得兩位有沒有聽到他說的部長顯然不清楚"},{"start":11085.075,"end":11104.574,"text":"這個陳柏壽副理事長稍後在上台做了一個總結他居然說電競生涯是個運動也是娛樂氣賽、霸賽、吵架、粉絲吵架、操粉或是主播去拔粉絲也都是有的所以沒關係沒關係大家理性看待就好"},{"start":11106.11,"end":11129.889,"text":"這就是補一槍啊一個副理事長是用這樣子的心態在看待一個重要的頒獎典禮看待一個國家扶植的重要的電競運動產業我覺得非常的居心不良第三個不良就是事後我們也看到協會的理事之一這個黃志仁他怒辭理事他說連評審會連半次會議都沒有開"},{"start":11133.072,"end":11146.377,"text":"所以這樣一個協會的運作它的治理是有問題的連理事都以怒辭理事的這樣子的抗議的作為來彰顯出這個協會的運作跟治理大有問題三大不良"},{"start":11147.639,"end":11167.842,"text":"然後三大不公當然對教育部不公平啊你們被冒用啦你們只能嗯就是道歉再道歉澄清再澄清啊對你們確實不公啊對於其他的電競團體或是選手不公平啊因為被貼上了一個標籤好像電競的恐就是跟販毒的走在一起"},{"start":11168.923,"end":11185.892,"text":"貼上了一個負面的不當觀感對這些選手不公平啊那對整個電競產業更是不公平我們使了多大的力去投入年年補助結果獲得這樣的下場三大不公好三大檢討"},{"start":11187.406,"end":11192.051,"text":"第一個,對不孝的單項協會依法裁罰,這我稍後再說。第二項,對於各單項協會的輔導要加強。剛剛這個怒辭禮事的人已經說了該開的會沒有開,他的運作就是有問題,沒有依章程、沒有依人民團體法來運作,就應當加強輔導。"},{"start":11208.286,"end":11235.362,"text":"第三個對於任何主辦協辦受補助的活動要建立一個指導準則這個事件可以帶給我們唯一一個正面的就是未來體育署針對任何一個有給過補助的協會或者是真的有可能是合作掛名的我們如果對於他的活動的舉辦的過程沒有更多的一個輔導跟管理的話可能都會有類似的事情好那我回到我的第一點看下一頁"},{"start":11237.427,"end":11256.415,"text":"國民體育法有工具的處罰協會的爭議行為國民體育法是有工具的從早上的質詢聽到現在部長也好署長也好一副都沒辦法一副都看看怎麼辦我們來督導輔導他們有工具可以用"},{"start":11257.575,"end":11285.305,"text":"這是我們上一屆很努力修法的國民體育法第43條特定體育團體有違反法令他有沒有違反法令有啊不當運作不當該開的會沒有開人民團體法他就違反啦如果有違反章程他也違反自己的章程啊甚至特定體育團體有妨礙公益情勢請問這件事情是不是就是嚴重的妨礙公益公共的利益"},{"start":11286.755,"end":11300.568,"text":"有這些情勢主管機關就是教育部體育署得以警告撤銷其決議停止其業務之全部或部分並限其令其改善"},{"start":11302.27,"end":11327.528,"text":"借其為改善或情節重大者得為下列之處理停止獎勵補助第二、撤免其職員這個副理事長有沒有不當在辦理這個活動的承辦人有沒有不當的居心第三個,限其整理這個協會第四項,移送人民團體法的主管機關去廢止許可最後一個最重,命令解散"},{"start":11328.843,"end":11354.611,"text":"我們有工具我認為這個事件是情節重大有不當居心還有不良的運作它違反了自己的章程違反了法令而且嚴重的來妨礙公益情勢孰可忍孰不可忍剛剛你們的回答只說我們未來在獎補助可能就來嚴格來審查甚至委員建議說是不是列為黑名單你們能做的政策工具只有這樣嗎"},{"start":11357.426,"end":11371.055,"text":"從這個事件的爬梳我真的認為這個協會去刻意的安排了這樣一個頒獎典禮他要去操作他的流量他要去製造話題結果弄巧成拙引發眾怒"},{"start":11375.049,"end":11387.216,"text":"部長工具在這裡您同不同意他嚴重的妨礙公益我跟委員報告因為這個事前我們真的確實不知道事前不知道OK我沒有苛責你一定要知道但發生了以後是我也請提出為什麼第一時間大家要釐清因為社會各界這個事情不釐清大家緩柔會誤成一團第二階段當然是對這個協會所辦的相關事項也要做一個深入的瞭解所用的法規本來就是國民體育法當時修法"},{"start":11403.985,"end":11414.533,"text":"所以部長我提點出來我認為調查之後我們如果來判讀他確實有不當的居心不當的操作刻意安排明知一個毒販他刻意讓他上台頒獎嚴重的妨礙公益情勢要給他們非常嚴重的處罰"},{"start":11421.511,"end":11449.43,"text":"這也才能夠殺雞儆猴解決我剛剛說的我們未來輔導了這麼多的團體我們沒有辦法把我們的手伸到每一個應該自主獨立運作的協會或團體但是你藉由一個事件一個深刻的檢討跟反省之後殺雞儆猴未來所有的協會在舉辦活動他們在處理任何的細節邀請代言人也好、頒獎人也好我相信都會更為慎重"},{"start":11451.411,"end":11466.96,"text":"工具在這裡,也就是我不接受早上你們軟趴趴的回應。沒有啦,我們把事情先聽清楚。好,那先釐清。因為從發生都是在深夜,昨天教育部第一時間就請提署釐清。那沒問題。我也請署長親自說明這件事情。好,我聽到了。第二,就是應該查辦裡面的事情嘛。好,很好。那謝謝部長聽到您非常強硬的回應喔。"},{"start":11474.588,"end":11502.299,"text":"我覺得你們是被拖下水當然教育部很無辜但是從無辜當中我們必須建立機制法律已經給你們一個很好的工具否則以後這件事情沒有從嚴來處置我們就繼續沒辦法下去好不好我提醒你們國民體育法43條社會都在看你們怎麼依法來辦理當然我同意要有一個調查的程序好下一頁我把握時間喔"},{"start":11504.161,"end":11532.284,"text":"我可能後面的題目講不完但我先提醒十七天後就要開運博會了對不對署長我們的運博會的大家都這麼的支持包括司堯在質詢台上一再的希望你們精進其實署長也非常用心喔私下來拜會司堯我們如何讓運博會一屆比一屆更好讓策展更多元豐富可是畢竟十七天後就要展開的運博會在他前十七天昨天才召開第一次的啟動記者會"},{"start":11534.385,"end":11547.737,"text":"委員會 非常可惜對應於文博會人家是四個月前就開始宣傳我相信體育是新興國力關心熱愛體育的族群"},{"start":11548.957,"end":11571.214,"text":"國人更多只有17天前用一個記者會而且是一個一般般的記者會我覺得非常的可惜甚至我們點進去了你們的網站行銷的內容就又回到這樣一個記者會的內容其他到底有哪些展覽今年的賣點在哪裡今年的多元性在哪裡沒有被看見下一頁"},{"start":11574.5,"end":11577.583,"text":"然後呢台灣運動產業博覽會的網頁只有3886個按讚文博會有36萬個"},{"start":11585.948,"end":11607.397,"text":"當然文博會啟動的比較久可是運博會我要再強調熱愛運動的青年族群最多他們對於社群的使用是最熱烈我們只有這樣的一個行銷成效跟推廣的力道是不夠的你們唯一發起的一個有趣的事情比較吸引大家關切就是票選體育金句"},{"start":11608.564,"end":11621.75,"text":"票選完了報告部長體育金句只有225個人去投票他得了第一名下一頁我今天質詢時間到了就以這個金句獻給大家就在這裡"},{"start":11623.574,"end":11639.092,"text":"終止今年的體運動金據獎人氣投票第一名雖然他只有225個人按讚但還是第一名挫折就像槓片槓片知道嗎運動健身的槓片你扛得起越多你就越強壯"},{"start":11640.666,"end":11659.609,"text":"我要用這一句今年的運動金句來回應我剛剛質詢的體育改革做了這麼久我也要說鄭署長是我看到從以前到現在最勇於認識、最積極、最有開放性的署長我給您很多的肯定包括我們的部長更"},{"start":11660.49,"end":11686.21,"text":"沒有話說對於各項的教育改革非常非常的投入但是挫折就像槓片我們必須扛得更多我們才會更強壯希望剛剛的那個事件讓我們有更大的力道去處置它就可以為未來的社會從一個負面事件我們得到正向的教訓跟正向的體制的改革好嗎我們繼續加油辛苦兩位謝謝好謝謝文謝謝"},{"start":11688.732,"end":11693.175,"text":"好,部長、署長請回,謝謝吳思耀委員的質詢再來我們請李桂民委員好,謝謝主席,主席我們麻煩請部長跟體育署署長好,潘部長還有鄭署長委員好"},{"start":11707.225,"end":11731.098,"text":"兩位好,兩位知道就是電競奧運的部分呢現在在國際奧運主席宣布說計畫要舉辦這個電競大會兩位知道嘛,對不對?那知道了這個電競的這個可能會進奧運知道大概是什麼時候會舉辦嗎?最快有評估過嗎?還是沒有?我請署長跟你們報告一下"},{"start":11732.581,"end":11740.233,"text":"幫委員這部分在電競這個什麼時候就好了目前國際奧會還沒有一個明確的時程所以你們沒有評估"},{"start":11741.462,"end":11761.873,"text":"沒有評估還是有目前因為連國際奧會跟亞洲奧會他們的路線都不一樣簡單來講就是沒有評估好那既然沒有評估呢也難怪今天早上對於媒體關於這個電競大賞染毒的這個爭議的情況之下然後這個部長的回應是這樣子啦部長很坦白的講"},{"start":11762.873,"end":11780.906,"text":"以今天早上你對於媒體的回應也就是說發生有這樣的一個事情你剛剛的我聽到你講是說第一個你不知情嘛對不對你剛剛是這樣講然後第二個呢你回答的是講說噢好你會把他的這個預算呢將來就不給他但是你曾經給過他這個300萬的這個這個部分的獎勵嗎那個不是獎勵那是選手培訓跟比賽的錢"},{"start":11790.926,"end":11797.471,"text":"對,但是你曾經給過他嘛,是不是?因為每一年都有選手要參加那既然是每一年你都有選手我並沒有反對這個因為我剛剛前面為什麼講說這個奧運會有這個項目就表示說理論上來講你體育署也好、教育部也好都應該重視都應該要重視嘛可是你重視的一個你對於今天有爭議的這個事件你的處理的方式平安講部長我是很不敢恭維啦"},{"start":11819.548,"end":11847.387,"text":"第一個你就講說我把這個預算呢我要把它剷除我沒有說這句話我沒有說那你解決的方案不是將來預算不給他嗎我從頭到尾沒有說因為那個是要培養選手跟比賽的費用那你剛才其他的委員在問的時候你也沒有釐清啊你對他的這個將來的這個懲處的方式是怎麼樣呢應該要先我們進入做調查啦因為這個事情發生的時間很短"},{"start":11848.027,"end":11862.073,"text":"那在第一時間因為外界都認為以為這是體育署指導的活動那這個東西不釐清這個我想是第一個先你的這個東西是第二個我就是反對你用甩鍋的方式那這不是甩鍋這是事實怎麼叫甩鍋他是甩鍋這是事實"},{"start":11866.235,"end":11884.631,"text":"你不需要動怒我好好跟你講話你不需要動怒好不好我告訴你什麼是事實你2022年的時候電競大賞的部分呢體育署是指導單位那這個也是他冒名嗎他也是冒名嗎好體育署長你對著麥克風講2022年的這個冒名的事件你到現在2023年你不知道"},{"start":11891.337,"end":11896.038,"text":"你當指導單位 你有沒有同意你婉拒了他把你擺上去你不處理你不處理這個是你的態度對不對你當時你既然婉拒你為什麼2022年的時候他擺上去的時候你不處理到現在已經一年多的時間你還理直氣壯"},{"start":11914.443,"end":11930.336,"text":"然後你現在2023年當他把你擺上去的時候你既然已經知道前面的你為什麼置之不理等到事情發生之後你用讓他下架的方式這個是解決的方法嗎你還理直氣壯還敢大小聲我好好的跟你講我問你的問題是民眾想知道的我請問你啊體育署你要大小聲的話我請問你啊我們的不管是直棒直籃的射毒的部分"},{"start":11945.151,"end":11960.897,"text":"你怎麼說呀問題從以前發生到現在你解決了什麼問題還是你讓民間原來對於體育有這麼多的期待我們國內有這麼多的優秀的不管是年輕人也好或者是成年人在學在校都一樣"},{"start":11961.897,"end":11970.382,"text":"大家對於這些的項目大家都希望能夠鼓勵讓我們的選手不管是學生也好或是職業選手都能夠將來發光發熱在國際間你的處理方式是這樣處理平安講部長我很失望你剛才的態度我很失望我告訴你為什麼我們平常的一些的東西因為屬於教育部管的"},{"start":11983.376,"end":12010.496,"text":"你們在審酌這些的基金會也好你們意見多得不得了啊你們意見連就是說為什麼你的這個比例這個是多少那你將來的活動應該這個少一點那個多一點什麼東西的你們意見多得不得了啊對於這個奧運將來在全球能見度這麼高的東西然後你置之不理然後你還講說2022你已經婉拒婉拒到現在為止你在這個時候事件發生的時候你才處理"},{"start":12011.477,"end":12016.06,"text":"你自己不該檢討嗎?剛才吳世耀委員還在這邊告訴你說你有這個三大不良、三大不公、三大檢討前面講的東西委員講的都成了廢話完全沒有聽到你的耳朵裡面去嗎?因為時間已經超過一分鐘了是不是部長事後再跟委員回應好嗎?"},{"start":12033.01,"end":12042.213,"text":"我再講另外一個因為態度傲慢然後我再提到另外一個也拜託在事後回答的沒關係我只有講問題而已就是人才荒對於人才荒的部分我們看到這一些的訊息不管是施政榮也好這一些的訊息都出來了人才荒教育部的確實的解決的方案是什麼也拜託用書面好嗎"},{"start":12058.138,"end":12059.36,"text":"謝謝李桂民委員質詢 莊瑞雄委員質詢"},{"start":12077.453,"end":12085.942,"text":"委員好部長好我在質詢教育部我都比較肯定的一個態度但是有幾個問題要來就教我們今年整個台灣籃球界格外的熱鬧我想除了很多國際賽特別多以外場外的風波其實也很多"},{"start":12096.792,"end":12121.379,"text":"那我想幾個問題,就臺灣亞運,我們這個藍藍的一個培訓裡面在今年的5月18號就已經成軍了那這一次的一個亞運的一個藍藍培訓隊裡面我們也看到發生了許多的一個破折比如說國手就指出加入培訓隊以後才知道說要打的比賽有這麼多甚至還要到日本去打這個交流賽而藍協每一年最重視的一個比賽就我們體育署每一年補助了一堆的經費的一個瓊士盃"},{"start":12123.26,"end":12144.281,"text":"那這些國手竟然是說沒有任何的一個保險那在整個亞運開打由前藍協舉辦的一個跨聯盟的一個邀請賽裡面因為不滿這個直男工會的協助培訓從七月份以來就公開呼籲跟爭取他們也認為沒有獲得重視跟改善培訓隊才去退出這個"},{"start":12145.061,"end":12150.906,"text":"宣布退賽,不參加聯盟的邀請賽。由藍協選拔祖訓的國家代表隊因資源匱乏,因此退出藍協主辦的比賽。這個實在是很沒有面子,我相信署長也待過協會的,這個你應該是感受特別深刻。在今年6月底、7月初的時候,本席知道當時要去日本打交流賽的一個代表隊,"},{"start":12169.983,"end":12188.392,"text":"一下子一對這麼多人竟然只帶一個環務員這個是很離譜的那我跟部長反映了以後還有署長也都反映以後都大力支持這個所以我表達這個肯定但當時本席跟署長跟部長反映的時候說增加後勤編制的部分署長那個時候是很豪氣"},{"start":12189.692,"end":12202.943,"text":"部長也說大力支持說未來在10人以上的代表隊最少要都配兩名的一個防護員這個都本席先表達一個肯定但是也要指出來的就是說整個後勤的一個編制尤其是防護員這個人數的比例"},{"start":12205.245,"end":12210.131,"text":"倒也不是說一概都全部訂幾個人應該是說針對比賽的項目、層級、強度來做分別的一個設定你像比如部長跟署長像電競代表隊的人數跟棒球"},{"start":12220.182,"end":12243.251,"text":"那這個這樣的強度就有所落差啦那尤其現在是整個這整個國際賽裡面大家看到說情搜人員對整個成績他其實他的貢獻是有目共睹的你說職棒在參加國際賽不斷在擴充情搜的一個團隊那這一次亞運本市也建議應該再去增加這些情搜人員但體育署說你說這邊支持協會沒補起來"},{"start":12247.193,"end":12272.814,"text":"這個我就覺得這個很離譜的一個方式啊他的理由當然很簡單他說亞運發入場證的時候有人數的一個限制但其實這些都可以有變通的方式啊你敢被騙他就好了啊不是這樣子嗎所以這個理由我看起來都不通啦那所以啊這個每一年幾乎都有各種層級各種運動項目的一個國際賽這個部分我們教育部跟體育署這個地方是不是可以盡快來展開研議"},{"start":12274.335,"end":12302.526,"text":"是跟委員報告因為確實剛才委員提到包含在今天的報告我們特別提到這些候請人員在參與比如像奧運等級的這個他們在大會籌備會確實都會對各國有人數限制但我們這次採取就跟委員這樣提到的也比較全面的方法我們這次會去設類似中繼站的概念那中繼站就不在他們大會的規範範圍但是我們的人員確實是可以到"},{"start":12303.106,"end":12321.693,"text":"比賽果的這個臨近現場的概念所以我想這方面我們確實會從選手教練的需求裡面把這些後勤的部分把過去我們常常會說總量的限制之下結果就沒辦法去做資源的部分今年在2024的巴黎奧運會有一個比較彈性的規劃"},{"start":12325.034,"end":12350.429,"text":"好 那我想這個另外就是說我們在整個國家運動科學中心9月16號也正式揭牌了我要請教部長跟署長說我希望說未來在國家隊的後勤編制配備的部分這個運科中心你扮演的角色你像比如說除了比賽本身的技術的一個支持之外是否可以在後勤隊的一個組成的階段納入整個運科中心你共同去做一個參與"},{"start":12351.77,"end":12364.857,"text":"其實像這一些不管是賽前或者說整個賽事的安排這個部分這個政府我們既然補助了那麼多錢這個部分我們教育部或者體育署這個地方其實應該再去做一個更完善的要求才對"},{"start":12370.467,"end":12387.199,"text":"是,根據委員報告也謝謝我們大運這邊的支持運科中心成立掛牌已經開始運作目前也正在招募那未來運科中心跟國性中心在有關協助選手教練的這個運科人員的部分會做好這個分工"},{"start":12388.54,"end":12404.195,"text":"運科中心未來在整個研發這方面當然就包含剛才委員提到的幾項這個會是他們主要的任務那實務的人員等於說跟選手直接比如像這些相關的人員實務的這部分會由運科處來協助所以兩個單位會做這樣的一個分工合作"},{"start":12411.018,"end":12435.13,"text":"職欄公會這個其實不斷地在做呼籲啦那我是否可以比照這個職棒這個公會的一個模式你雙方去簽署運動員參與國家的一個協約提供運動員更大的一個保障過去這個部分其實幾乎都是狗吠火車啦那今天部長跟署長都在這個地方我們都期待像這種情況都要去做一個改善啦我最後一個問題就是說這個大家在講說整個這個賭博這個問題啊"},{"start":12440.66,"end":12445.444,"text":"運動賽事涉及到賭博的問題你說過去來看的話為了防範整個職業運動的遷讀跟打假球的部分媒體其實都報導很多啦職棒的部分其實過去也有很多例子職籃的部分我們都希望這一些案子在整個職業賽事裡面我們體育署這個地方或跟教育部這個地方我們也必須"},{"start":12465.82,"end":12471.846,"text":"必須要去事先你要把那個規範事先去做一個防範前面有太多的例子了我們請潘部長事後再回應好不好好不好部長這個跟提議署這個地方要特別要去回應整個社會對這方面的一個不滿跟要求"},{"start":12483.997,"end":12494.985,"text":"過去有太多知名的教練、球員轉個身份,到最後還是涉案。這個我們看了都非常痛心。事後我也請部長跟體育署特別注意。謝謝莊委員的質詢。我們請潘部長事後再回應。謝謝部長請回、署長請回。謝謝莊瑞雄委員的質詢。下一位是王婉玉委員。"},{"start":12514.471,"end":12530.482,"text":"主席來有請潘部長委員好部長我們知道今天有很多人都在討論電競協會的事情但是呢我除了電競協會之外其實還有很多有問題的單項協會不好意思我想請教部長就好了"},{"start":12533.014,"end":12550.769,"text":"我們今天想要談竹鞋的問題之所以要特別問部長就是這個問題其實已經談過非常多次了署也給我們很多的想法和很多建議但是始終沒有辦法解決我們認為部長應該要來面對這些問題竹鞋的欠款和財務的狀況從去年開始包括今年的五月、三月我們都提出來很多部分"},{"start":12551.129,"end":12567.658,"text":"署長一直說會處理我們要來努力處理但是最後我們收到的都是足協的說法看不到體育署自己的調查報告包括今年初的時候體育署也表示說會以選手為重競速的優先歸還可是呢我們五月問的女足公會的倩馨"},{"start":12568.158,"end":12591.421,"text":"體育署也承諾要來盡力來做協助十月我們卻看到其他委員包含莊建成委員、陳秀寶委員都召開了記者會到現在出場費也還沒有給還沒有還那還有我們看到他們今年一月的到泰國來踢友誼賽二月到紐西蘭來參加世界盃的附加賽出場費到現在也仍然沒有給所以我們想問的是甚至現在連這種無人製的比賽也有欠薪的狀況"},{"start":12592.242,"end":12607.617,"text":"體育署說要處理但是到現在仍然沒處理也沒有以選手優先為重我們想請教如果這不是包庇縱容什麼是包庇縱容尤其是10月底我們也收到最近一次調查的報告回來足協還了一千多萬但是裡面選手的錢什麼時候可以給"},{"start":12611.191,"end":12636.952,"text":"跟委員報告,確實因為足協在過去財務上的這些情形確實是相當的嚴重那也從新任理事長上任以來我得到的資訊他確實也積極地在財務上面來做處理目前已經把這個財務大概也解決一千八百萬當然還不夠啦,我只是說部長你知道還有欠多少錢嗎?"},{"start":12638.174,"end":12641.64,"text":"詳細的數字我可能手上沒有但是我知道之前確實是一個比較大的一個財務的困境"},{"start":12646.331,"end":12671.241,"text":"是,依照10月現在給我們的資料我們想問的是到底這些出場費給了沒有?今年的欠的這些費用到底給選手了沒有?因為我們收到的報告是說112年度的各項費用沒有任何積欠那之前的記者會這些委員是開假的嗎?難道足協的說法是錯的嗎?我們想先澄清、釐清到底足協該給他們的出場費有沒有給?今年到底還有沒有積欠相關的費用?委員這個細節我需要再了解"},{"start":12675.438,"end":12702.313,"text":"我只是知道他整體從三月到現在是積極的有處理一千八百萬左右的這種自己還的對象包含是不是給選手的出場費等等的這個我可能需要了解部長我們真的希望你能夠一起下來看這個問題啦因為體育署一直跟我們說沒有欠給我們的報告也說一百一十二年沒有欠任何的費用但是剛剛提到一月的泰國二月的紐西蘭的這些賽事都是發生在今年就是一百一十二年度委員們也開過記者會女主也出來說明了"},{"start":12704.674,"end":12727.422,"text":"但是仍然沒有收到回應我們收到的仍然是沒有任何積欠的費用這樣子各說各話的情況我覺得大家完全沒有辦法接受這就是為什麼我們今天希望能夠是由部長來回答部長我們希望大家開記者會大家來提出訴求真的應該要被看見而且更應該要被解決這部分是不是能夠具體告訴我們什麼時候會給這些出場費還有我們到底有沒有心來解決這些問題"},{"start":12729.023,"end":12737.73,"text":"我跟委員報告,任何民間團體他的財務損失這方面我想當然從監督輔導上我們會積極的去處理但是對於現在他們在進行因為這些裡面有很多都是我們的選手、球員包含曾經有幾項他們沒有辦理的這個比較青年盃或女足部長我們只要一個承諾能不能也把選手的權益考慮進去"},{"start":12755.745,"end":12760.811,"text":"今年的部分優先來處理不要再積欠任何的出場費用我跟委員報告因為他這個財務的狀態已經有一段時間了那現在我是跟委員報告說他從上一到現在已經來補償大概一千八百萬"},{"start":12773.867,"end":12785.236,"text":"廠商的部分嘛 那選手呢?是 所以我說現在不理因為教育部不可能去幫他協助財務損失的部分但是現在有很多選手但有監督的責任讓他能夠上軌道的責任正才會說為什麼從3月到現在要求他已經清還清償1800萬也是這個意思"},{"start":12792.202,"end":12813.09,"text":"我們今天談的是能不能選手權益涵蓋在這個清場的範圍裡面能夠優先來處理選手的權益不是只有處理廠商而已我們今天並不是提出一個很嚴重的要求說要今年立刻還完這個九千萬的債務我們不是這樣談的喔我們說今年開始沒有積欠任何的費用是不是也能夠涵蓋選手的出廠費優先來處理"},{"start":12815.111,"end":12843.816,"text":"是,我們行政部長有這樣的承諾我們具體來做推動那當然我們也要看到財務的問題的確是非常大但是體育署、教育部難道沒有責任嗎?當然有體育署對現在的足協好不好?很好上一屆的足協比賽補助了六成五現在補助到八成但他們少了很多自籌款的壓力但是我們卻看到仍然沒有還錢給球員們這是我們覺得非常生氣的部分所以我們希望剛剛提到能夠具體來承諾選手的部分優先處理第二個部分就是也要善盡監督管理的責任"},{"start":12844.416,"end":12872.727,"text":"讓他們能夠還完他們的費用並且如何來做協助包括像是大衛球場的可能性我們也希望部長這邊能夠一起來關注因為這並不是我們所創的包括像外國他們也會像加拿大足協就跟去年就有跟FIFA來做貸款那我們也希望體育署、教育部能夠共同來努力讓他們能夠優先來處理選手的權益之外也能夠盡快的釐清調查的報告能夠告訴大家以及我們如何能夠來協助還款我覺得這部分都應該要跟大家做說明不是只有告訴大家"},{"start":12872.927,"end":12880.011,"text":"因為超過時間了,是不是部長這邊事後書面回應好嗎?好,謝謝部長,部長請回,謝謝王婉玉委員的質詢再來我們請鄭振前委員主席好,我想請潘部長好,潘部長請"},{"start":12902.766,"end":12918.33,"text":"委員好部長好謝謝主席今天安排了針對我們2024年巴黎奧運的一個專報那我想說先請教一下部長你知不知道這個來下一張部長你知不知道這個運動選手是誰"},{"start":12922.113,"end":12939.108,"text":"文資隱文資隱文資隱嘛,OK那表示部長也有在關心所以你知道他得到是什麼樣子的銅牌嗎?委員指的是什麼時候?東京奧運銅牌銅牌,對,他得什麼項目的銅牌?"},{"start":12941.166,"end":12953.654,"text":"空手道同排這表示部長對體育還是有一定程度的關心可是我想問一下部長你知不知道他後來在今年二月份的時候他退出了我們國家隊你知道原因是什麼嗎?"},{"start":12956.316,"end":12968.85,"text":"真正的原因這個可能只有指引他自己比較說明他提了有一些想法可能自己也覺得也許他有另外人生生涯的規劃"},{"start":12970.972,"end":12985.745,"text":"這就是我為什麼在今天這個專報的時候第一個提出這個狀態因為我覺得我們的國家對於真的國家級的運動選手的照顧感覺不太夠啦那我在想這當然有幾個原因比方說第一個是他們在"},{"start":12986.365,"end":13001.433,"text":"比賽過程當中是不是在整個生理跟心理上面的壓力的處理各方面的處理是不是有足夠?第二個就是你剛剛講到生涯規劃的一個問題那因為我記得我們在進立法院的時候之前在討論那個相關的"},{"start":13004.355,"end":13025.648,"text":"那個運動產業發展條例的時候其實我們也特別希望能夠讓運動選手他們有更多的一個機會點那我在想說一開始提這個狀態的時候最主要就是希望說我們對於運動選手的照顧能夠更全面尤其是對於他們的生涯規劃的一個部分否則我覺得一個國家級的運動選手"},{"start":13027.729,"end":13043.839,"text":"謝謝委員因為知道你關注我也跟您說明一下齁其實因為知以為你以這個為主我為什麼剛跟您提到說他有生涯過這是我側面得到的訊息但是對於我們的選手尤其是國手啦亞奧運的國手我們本來就有一個專案齁"},{"start":13045.12,"end":13049.947,"text":"四年就會有一百位的機會轉任他最專長的當然就是擔任就是他退役之後的專任教練的這樣的職缺而且這個部分從之前的東京奧運後"},{"start":13061.323,"end":13079.538,"text":"其實100位當時聘進來已經將近了所以如果對於代表國家參加這樣的一個選手對他未來退役之後即使國家是用這樣的政策在支持這個是當然從體育專業方面的理解"},{"start":13080.699,"end":13096.273,"text":"我們希望讓選手也無後顧之憂這個我是跟委員報告這是從東京奧運之後我們就建立的一個選手退役之後的另外繼續發揮他這也是我們持續希望去推動的部分現在這個制度每四年就一百位每四年喔"},{"start":13098.055,"end":13122.246,"text":"每四年一百位,它是持續下去的嘛對不對那今天我們希望說能夠真正打到這種國際級的運動選手的時候我們希望能夠讓他們不一定只有一百位的限制能夠更廣好不好這個是我們講的那個專其實我們還有另外可以輔導有關在學校部分擔任專業教練的這個當然不只一百位啦那一百位是專門針對代表國家參加亞奧運的了解的選手"},{"start":13126.468,"end":13147.763,"text":"了解所以我就想這個部分的時候就是今天為什麼針對這個巴黎奧運這邊的時候其實我們會特別提到這個點就是因為我們希望運動比賽是四年一次可是對於這些運動選手來講他們是一輩子的一個投入啦所以我們希望能夠對他們有更好的一個照顧那接下來的時候我想問一個點就是"},{"start":13149.564,"end":13176.883,"text":"針對我們今年成立的一個運科中心運科中心的一個狀態我知道我們國訓中心也有運科處剛剛部長在回應其他的委員的時候你大概有提到一個狀態運科中心大概用研究為主研發的部分為主在實際上面的訓練當中就是國訓中心的運科處這邊去做執行我這邊想特別知道是因為"},{"start":13179.804,"end":13207.289,"text":"明年巴黎奧運的時候第一次會考驗到我們運科中心的成果雖然時間很短那因為我看了我們立法院的一個預算中心他講到10月份的時候我們整個運科中心大概只有執行長跟兩個才快的人其他的人都還沒有進來目前到12月1號已經有十幾位已經開始進來了現在有十幾位進來了"},{"start":13209.55,"end":13233.245,"text":"是因為今年大概八、九月才開始掛牌所以時間很短那因為到明年七月二十六號的巴黎奧運是時間也很短所以我們希望在運科中心能夠具體發揮成果對於明年的巴黎奧運有一些的影響所以我這邊也特別關心我們運科中心的這些資料這些data主要從哪裡來"},{"start":13234.826,"end":13249.211,"text":"所謂的data是?比方說包括我們的一些相關的數字一些數據因為運科中心它是需要很多量化需要數據去做很多的分析那我們目前運科中心的這些數據主要從哪些地方取得?"},{"start":13249.591,"end":13278.41,"text":"我跟委員報告因為剛才委員知道因為我們現在國訓中心跟運科中心正式都以行政法人的等於說他們是相同位階只是任務分工讓這兩個中心的分工合作可以幫助到選手跟教練那未來會計建制有關我們選手相關所需要的這個資料不過這個資料庫我也跟委員報告因為你也知道這個涉及到運動競技場上非常重要的對選手的一些資訊這不是對外的公開資訊"},{"start":13280.271,"end":13293.02,"text":"所以我要講的狀態是你沒有這些數據你運科中心其實功能就會很有限所以我要講的狀態是我們現在運動員數據收集主要從哪幾個學校或是從哪些地方有合作配合去取得"},{"start":13294.416,"end":13315.15,"text":"目前還沒有完成所以這才是要成立運科中心來最主要的考量因為過去我們在國訓的運科處主要是比從相關的比較實務上面的協助在研發這方面從人員的組成委員長所以我們目前有哪些學校跟運科中心會有合作你知道嗎"},{"start":13315.67,"end":13334.971,"text":"我現在那天聽完運科中心的執行長的簡報已經陸陸續續有幾個都是跟國內我們蠻典型的大學很簡單的跟你講說其實包括國體包括清華大學包括成功大學包括台北市立大學目前四所學校跟那個我們的運科中心其實有"},{"start":13335.592,"end":13356.197,"text":"一切合作他提供這些數據對那為什麼可以提到這東西這東西是我們後續你有足夠的資料庫你有足夠的數據的時候我們運科中心才能真正的好好去發揮所以本席提到這個點只是希望說透過這個部分的時候讓我們運科中心後續能夠更有效率的去發揮他應該要有的一個影響力因為"},{"start":13357.677,"end":13376.861,"text":"到明年的巴黎奧運只剩下七個多月的時間我們希望育科中心能夠真正幫到這些運動選手讓我們明年在巴黎奧運會有更好的一個成績那這邊的時候我再另外提到一個狀態因為目前我們在國際奧委會的時候有沒有代表"},{"start":13379.022,"end":13393.611,"text":"目前沒有目前沒有對 那這個部分也是我提到想要特別提到的點因為明年巴黎奧運其實有很多運動賽事的項目都有所調整那對於我們國家事實上能夠得到多少的獎牌是不是能夠持續維持在"},{"start":13395.051,"end":13416.908,"text":"東京奧運當中這樣一個成果其實我們也非常的關心那其中有一個很大的部分就是奧委會的代表委員這件事情那從吳京國2020年就是辭掉之後的時候我們目前其實是沒有人的所以他也是我們就是這50年來第一次碰到奧運會的時候我們其實沒有奧委會的委員"},{"start":13418.148,"end":13439.964,"text":"所以本席認為我們教育部這邊應該要讓中華奧委會這邊更積極地去跟國家奧委會那邊去做一個互動然後爭取能夠取得這115席就是奧委會委員裡面的一席因為有奧委會的委員對於整個我們國家運動的一個發展其實有非常大的一個幫助的"},{"start":13440.524,"end":13453.718,"text":"那這邊就特別叮嚀那最後一個部分就是針對整個電競運動這個部分剛剛很多委員都問了那我想特別講到一個狀態是說很多人都在講說這個電競大賞這個部分"},{"start":13457.082,"end":13478.715,"text":"就是涉毒這件事情那這個部分是我們電競協會跟整個國內、國外的一個關係那體育署其實明顯是這個協會的一個指導的一個單位那我針對這個涉毒的事情的時候我只想特別講一個點因為電競對於青少年圈子裡面影響非常大"},{"start":13479.415,"end":13495.496,"text":"那我們除了究責之外呢我們也希望教育部能夠把這個事件變成一個反讀當中很重要的一個切入點透過這個部分不要讓年輕人覺得欸 涉毒之後我可以當"},{"start":13496.737,"end":13522.671,"text":"頒獎人頒獎人感覺比參賽選手更厲害感覺成績更高所以我覺得希望教育部能夠透過這個事件的時候能夠好好的在校園當中去推動反讀這樣的一個宣導那針對這回應剛剛已經有很多委員的回應我這邊就沒有特別再請部長這邊回應我只希望說利用這個部分把反讀的部分在大規模的宣導不要讓電競"},{"start":13524.812,"end":13549.531,"text":"這個大賞這個事件的時候影響到年輕朋友的價值觀好不好?一定,我想反讀的宣導這個一直都持續性在進行那有一些我們特別要再注意的我想我們會加入我們在宣導裡面再提醒我們的所有的學生謝謝部長、謝謝主席好,謝謝,那潘部長、署長請回應謝謝曾政前委員的質詢再來我們請洪孟楷委員"},{"start":13560.731,"end":13562.138,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請潘部長有請潘部長"},{"start":13567.329,"end":13595.199,"text":"好 部長 部長既然我們相關的賽事協會都有獲得我們的運動發展基金的一個補助啦所以說我也認為是說我們教育部基本上來講不應該置身事外因為是主管機關啦不過本期現在先秀出來是說第一個是中華民國電競運動協會其實在你們的預算書裡面也都特別提到是有補助相關部分各位要再問另外一個現在大家也很關心的議題就是現在亞錦賽如火如荼在台灣開打"},{"start":13596.559,"end":13625.036,"text":"對不對來我們看下一張體育署很好本席也給予肯定就是說也有說喜迎棒球亞景賽歡迎我國的民眾來大場為我們加油那我想請教一下部長或是署長有沒有掌握這一次我們的球員在參加亞景賽的部分有沒有什麼樣的一個激勵的一個獎金目前在亞景賽的部分我們有國光獎章國光獎章國光獎金有訓練費"},{"start":13626.731,"end":13640.329,"text":"這個主訓的費用我們都有支持。好,那請教出席費勒?目前我們沒有針對出席費有給予支持。為什麼沒有出席費?這部分我們還是尊重協會啦。那協會這部分當然他跟選手...我們的法令怎麼規定?"},{"start":13644.212,"end":13663.559,"text":"我們的法令國民體育法裡面規定中央主管機關如果說有相關的這一些零用金制度特定體育團體舉辦或參與收益性的商業賽事的話應支付選手出席費,出賽費。報告委員這一場如果說亞錦賽他們在棒鞋的部分有收益的話我們會要求"},{"start":13663.899,"end":13664.52,"text":"委員洪孟楷等"},{"start":13681.943,"end":13706.132,"text":"但是重點在於是現在我們沒有辦法確認說到底我們的亞錦賽這些球員現在開幕賽已經打了我們第一天4比0贏韓國大家都很興奮選手表現很好然後現在選手正在晉級甚至有人講說我們這一次因為是地主所以我們非常有可能能夠再來奪冠是不是?那就到目前選手打一天算一天然後不知道說有沒有出場費"},{"start":13708.086,"end":13731.409,"text":"我們主管機關這樣合理嗎?這部分我會再來跟棒協來做研議所以到目前為止沒有討論到這因為本席就接獲爆料本席接獲爆料是說到目前為止去詢問了現在出賽的球員兩個球員都跟我們回覆是說沒有出席費有的可能就是訓練費跟國光獎章但是大家也認為是說奇怪"},{"start":13731.769,"end":13751.588,"text":"之前國民體育法我們相關的部分應該要出席出賽費而且這算是一個商業性的賽事我們不能說大家看到風光的時候大家全部都去來沾光那結果最基本的我們的核心價值是選手是球員的時候選手球員的權益沒有保障部長認不認同啊部長您是大家長"},{"start":13759.309,"end":13771.818,"text":"委員這個因為法規我想是明確的然後至於說剛才蘇蘭也特別提到一點他是不是能達到這個有關收益的這部分是需要再跟協會"},{"start":13774.52,"end":13798.039,"text":"我們當初國民體育法定義有講說收益代支出嗎?或說有相關的部分嗎?還是說我現在本席現在提出來這個問題我覺得因為這一次的球員大多數也都是職棒球員我們知道職棒球員其實現在已經是職棒賽季結束了相關的球員其實他們也是如果說多打比賽第一有可能冒著是他們的選手生命的風險"},{"start":13798.88,"end":13823.89,"text":"第二、他們的休息時間比較短第三、打完這次亞景賽之後再到明年的賽季又要馬上又再集訓又要回母球團報到其實某種程度上他們都是為國爭光那本席只是提出來說不要每一次我們既然已經有嚴格的制度跟規定我們就應該要符合那尤其我們體育署尤其我們教育部又是上位的主管機關不要邊打邊走不然"},{"start":13825.031,"end":13833.266,"text":"現在已經在打那可能這兩天又有賽事難道這些球員就要冒著說不了解的狀況到底今天這一場有沒 明天這一場有沒這是態度問題吧 部長"},{"start":13836.856,"end":13861.484,"text":"是不是時間的緣故部長是不是事後再書面回應或怎樣?部長本席點出來只是因為確實有人有爆料本席也接獲爆料那也確實有人有反應我們看到國民體育法竟然有這樣一個規定大家也都想要了解主管機關的態度如果說主管機關只是認為是說這得過且過或是說再來溝通可能對選手是沒有保障的其實出場費也沒有多少錢啊恭喜在"},{"start":13862.564,"end":13887.741,"text":"這個是Kimochi的問題但是如果連最基本這一些都沒有辦法保障我們不知道說還有什麼能夠保障我想這一點也是我們現在在討論說今天不管是大巨蛋條款或者是之前的魔獸條款所謂的黃牛票我們要禁止的這樣的一個修法本席也有提案我們要的是主管機關有明確的態度來去嚇阻一切步伐並且保障我們選手的選手生命這樣可以嗎"},{"start":13887.981,"end":13891.222,"text":"今天登記質詢均已發言完畢另有委員劉世芳提出書面質詢接下來我們審查運動產業發展條例相關草案現在開始逐條審查請醫事人宣讀條文內容並進行討論與協商"},{"start":13915.229,"end":13918.033,"text":"討論時如有新增修正動議,請議事人員一併宣讀。"},{"start":13927.394,"end":13949.641,"text":"二十四之一條有縣版、洪孟楷版、莊瑞雄版、廖國棟版、張廖萬堅版、林一錦版、吳四堯版、陳秀寶版、蘇志芬版、沈發慧版、黃國書版、陳亭飛版、時代力量黨團版、劉兆豪版、余天版、蘇巧慧版、江永昌版、萬美齡版另有修正動議、林一錦跟陳培威委員的修正動議"},{"start":13953.271,"end":13982.123,"text":"看委員有沒有要發 哪位要發言 陳培宇委員先謝謝主席 那我聽一下那個修正動議的部分也是需要跟署長還有部長討論因為像如果是用送票的部分 沒有票價買賣這個部分那如何懲罰這個黃牛票的部分那可不可以請署長或是部長這邊說明一下 好 謝謝好 那個 剛剛洪孟楷然後再林怡瑾再吳思瑤"},{"start":13983.442,"end":14008.332,"text":"好 主席感謝我想我們今天針對二十四之一條剛剛也提到就是說這不管是之前的魔獸條款或是說現在大巨蛋條款重點在於是說我們鼓勵大家去參與運動賽事當然我們杜絕這種黃牛的文化那本席先請教一下因為今天我們應該有內政部的警政署的官員也有到場本席有注意到在這個今年的三月"},{"start":14011.189,"end":14029.876,"text":"我們協助的這一次亞錦賽的這個開幕戰的這個廠商就是說協助我們的系統商是拓園售票他其實也都是這國內的一個算是知名的一個售票系統那今年3月的時候他也有在辦相關的不管是演唱會或是說相關的這個"},{"start":14031.176,"end":14059.008,"text":"販售門票的時候都是被銷售一空當時的執行長還有講到是說一秒就能送出四次交易的帳號會是真人嗎?機器人程式交易越來越猖獗所以他已經從系統上進行修正接下來把相關可疑的交易記錄、數據、帳號全部交給刑事警察局針灸隊等著看吧我想請教一下從今年3月到現在我們刑事警察局這邊辦的怎麼樣?"},{"start":14061.445,"end":14080.784,"text":"可不可以回答我這個問題第一就是說他有沒有交來那有沒有辦案的一個進度跟狀況有沒有找到因為為什麼本席會先提出來這個問題我們訂二十四條之一不管多嚴謹今天甚至行政院的版本我想相對來講力道是大的說如果說利用電腦或是相關票券購買"},{"start":14082.786,"end":14094.799,"text":"這個偽造資料或是其他不正常的方式就代表是說比如說機器人城市比如說相關的這些城市處三年以下有期徒刑或病科罰金三百萬元以下那當然問題是抓不抓得到"},{"start":14096.243,"end":14118.693,"text":"所以我們訂了這個之後我們有沒有這個利器管道跟方式抓到那今年3月拓園的執行長就已經有講是說把相關的這些資料都送來針灸隊了那我們針灸隊到目前為止已經快大半年過去了我們有沒有破貨抓到或是有任何的這種利用機器人程式的這種帳號來去處理報告委員吼我們"},{"start":14122.751,"end":14136.579,"text":"我們是不是先等這一輪完之後再回應好嗎?再來是林益菁委員,然後等會吳思瑤委員,然後再來張綺路委員。好,謝謝主席。"},{"start":14137.961,"end":14162.964,"text":"我想今天我們討論這個杜絕這個運動賽事的黃牛所以有這個二十四條之一的修法討論那當然我想我們就特別注意到今天早上的質詢我也有特別提到就是說像這次大巨蛋的測試賽全面免費索票那票價就是零嘛可是這一次有被炒到一張四、五千塊"},{"start":14164.225,"end":14168.589,"text":"那所以變成這樣的一個黃牛如果按照我們現在的院版的修法的這個條文是沒有辦法罰到錢的因為是要按照票面的票價10至50倍所以這個可能就是要來做看怎麼處理那當然今天早上諮詢的時候署長是說可能會用行政措施好像說用實名制啦或者是說這個其他的方法來處理"},{"start":14192.469,"end":14216.025,"text":"但用這樣的方式其實也是在遏止黃牛的減少可是如果真的黃牛發生好像看起來也沒辦法處罰所以我覺得還是要用修法的方式來處罰這個這個如果是票價是零元的時候的黃牛那所以我也有提了一個修正動議那待會大家一起討論看看那這個修正動議是這樣就是說如果有黃牛販售"},{"start":14217.026,"end":14236.761,"text":"全面免費鎖票入場的這種賽事或紅票又被抓到那就按票卷張數由主管機關每張票卷一萬八千元以下的划反那一萬八千怎麼來就是參考社會秩序維護法第六四條那所以我想當然可是這個跟"},{"start":14237.682,"end":14251.675,"text":"我的版本跟這個涉惡違法不同之處是說我的提案有進一步要求就是要按照票卷的張數所以就是每張就是罰一萬八千元以下依照情節來看這樣以上 謝謝"},{"start":14255.498,"end":14274.038,"text":"禮儀錦委員,再請吳思耀委員發言。下一位張綺露委員。好,謝謝主席。幾個方面很快的報告一下。第一個,我們從6月份,6月2號正式通過文創法之後,其實可以看到藝文產業的黃牛,它接受裁罰的數量,"},{"start":14276.32,"end":14288.766,"text":"就是過去十年來的數量換言之這短短上路來的四五個月你看喔收到1381件的檢舉當中還有147件是體育類的然後高雄已經開罰八件台北已經開罰五件對應於沒有文創法修法之前黃牛幾年來就是這個數字所以我們四五個月就有這個執行數字代表這個法很重要"},{"start":14302.333,"end":14313.997,"text":"所以第一點我是希望我們如果沒有太多衍生的爭議的話,就是快速讓它通過。第二個呢,就是我同意剛剛一經委員說的,針對這種新樣態的黃牛,可以拿那個免費票券去賣,我們就應當用一個新的,這個磨高一尺,道要一丈。所以這個我同意要新增這個條文的部分。那私謠自己的24條之一呢,有兩項是跟原版比較不一樣的。"},{"start":14330.603,"end":14348.801,"text":"也就是黃牛未遂也是黃牛所以我也把預備犯放進來但我這尊重大家的意見當初在文創法的時候我也提出這主張只是大家後來也沒有接納但我覺得在運動的賽事是不是也要可以做這個處置第二個我的第五項是增訂的"},{"start":14349.642,"end":14370.124,"text":"就是一般的因為運動賽是至我的理解還是比那種幾年一次然後添團來其實運動賽會的舉辦是更密集更頻繁所以換言之真的會有已經購票的人他相對會是因為我的時間突然不行他要換票"},{"start":14370.865,"end":14389.338,"text":"所以我是在第五項裡頭給予一個合理的換票的彈性就是說我真的是因為時間沒多好我要用我一定買來這是善意的第三人啦那用這種善意的人的這個換票的彈性給予他我是增訂在第五項那我要強調文創法跟運動我們現在審的產業發展條例比較不一樣的在我看待黃牛的樣態我會認為"},{"start":14397.944,"end":14423.451,"text":"真的會比較有因為他賽事更多他對於這個善意的我臨時沒辦法去看的人他的這種發生的機率會比較高所以這一個部分給予合理換票彈性的這一個條文我希望能夠放進來才能夠保障有一些人他是善意的單純換票被誤觸的以為他就是黃牛來重罰這是我的提醒好報告謝謝"},{"start":14426.006,"end":14449.406,"text":"謝謝吳思瑤委員那我也想跟大家說明一下那這次就是說本來還有張綺露委員還有那個陳培委員跟我的因為我們不只是有十二之一還有別的條文像我的部分還有勞動權益跟性別平等的部分那為了議事效率我們這次預算匯集就沒有放入那跟這幾位委員之前一樣因為朝委自己也沒有放入那再來我們請張綺露委員發言"},{"start":14451.127,"end":14475.087,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉那我這邊也是就是順著剛才昭偉在談到這件事我也是表達一下就是民眾黨黨版這邊事實上也有提出我們這次的這個運動產業發展條例的這個修法事實上我們也是修兩條其中24條這邊其實民眾黨這邊其實是跟院版其實是一致的啦"},{"start":14475.607,"end":14501.449,"text":"所以其實我必須先表述一下就是說我們本來也就是支持這件事情那只是這次真的蠻可惜的就是說沒有辦法把我們這個版本納入但是我還是先要陳述就是說民眾黨黨版這邊事實上也是非常關切這件事而且我們也是跟行政院院版是一致那同時也跟大家報告事實上民眾黨的這個黨版這邊其實我們是在九月初我們就提了事實上我們比院版更早一點"},{"start":14502.883,"end":14521.486,"text":"經審都是完全一樣的另外因為我們這次是有加入第八條那第八條其實說實話本來也應該跟今天24條是沒有會衝突因為為什麼?因為這個第八條這邊我們加的這個項目是所謂的就是維持票券的這個正常交易跟維護市場秩序"},{"start":14521.946,"end":14546.293,"text":"就是希望這個全職主管機關能夠也就這個部分就是說要律定在就是說它本來它就業管的那個事項裡面所以是這樣子加所以等於說第八條其實是剛好是呼應第24條我們今天24之一這邊的這個修法這個重點所以其實精神是一致的那當然我們因為我們也知道這個預算會期在最後時間是比較緊迫"},{"start":14547.293,"end":14563.294,"text":"那我也瞭解了可以說因為其實我們這次教文委員會也不只是民眾黨版這邊比較遺憾沒有辦法放進去那包括召回自己的也在也沒有放所以我們就是尊重這樣子的一個議事審議的"},{"start":14565.444,"end":14567.104,"text":"中文字幕由 Amara.org 社群組成"},{"start":14588.767,"end":14616.507,"text":"謝謝張綺露委員代表民眾黨版就是說沒辦法納入的表達一致的支持態度再來我們請陳秀寶委員發言然後下一位張亮萬堅委員謝謝主席我這邊的版本根據我們今天要大家要修的這個運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一的這個部分我的版本其實就是參考文創法的第十條之一來訂定的那院版的方向是一樣的主要討論還是說體育署其實要怎麼執行"},{"start":14618.128,"end":14630.056,"text":"文化部已經分三個部份跨部會成立打牛小組與警政署合作官方網站設置檢舉黃牛票專區之後會翻案到各地方政府裁罰體育署在官網上設置檢舉黃牛票專區讓民眾來檢舉有發現這樣的事件來認定之後由相關單位裁判"},{"start":14647.608,"end":14652.793,"text":"刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及刑事罪犯及"},{"start":14665.806,"end":14680.383,"text":"參照文創法的部分划寬是10到50倍但重現這次的中韓大戰看那個票這樣子的黃樑票真的太猖獗了運動賽事的票券本來就比義文票券的價格比較低如果實際上以10倍"},{"start":14680.683,"end":14703.272,"text":"五十倍這個樣子來比例上來算的話金額呢這個以運動賽事的票的罰的金額會比藝文黃牛票還要低所以嚇阻率是這樣子不太夠的話是不是大家也可以評估一下就是這個罰款的倍數的部分大家來討論那另外剛才已經委員所提的這個修正動議我本人也很認同因為其實黃牛他們販售這樣子的票券謀利謀取暴利的這種"},{"start":14704.633,"end":14717.394,"text":"此情境是越來越多的手法跟翻新那如果說可以制定一個這樣子的規範按照這個社會秩序維護法這個部分來裁罰的話應該會更有一個嚇阻的效力以上"},{"start":14719.31,"end":14734.998,"text":"謝謝陳秀寶委員再張耀萬堅委員我的版本其實跟行政院的方向都一致啦都是按照文創法十之一的精神不過我早上質詢的時候呢也特別提到說這個免費票的問題所以我也連署了這個林議警的這個"},{"start":14736.098,"end":14749.909,"text":"臨時動議啦,我覺得應該有一個裁法的另外我要之前大概有提過就在審預算的時候曾經提過就是說你看我早上講說事實上我們的檢舉案相當多可是有些個案也引起民怨比如說他只是加價15塊的手續費結果也被檢舉"},{"start":14752.671,"end":14773.29,"text":"那這個我問了他們他們說那會請他來說明可是問題是這個是很耗費這個行政繁瑣就是說你看我們檢舉了一千多件那這個台北有213案台中16案高雄有60幾案那事實上裁法的沒有幾件那有些是類似的狀況所以我認為這個執法還是要訂一些樣態"},{"start":14776.593,"end":14800.321,"text":"就說直接他如果說他只是一個基本只是手續費、郵費那個就不用再去耗費人家去找人家來傳打電話叫人家來莫名其妙犯罪一樣這個會造成困民怨所以我認為執法這個部分一定要想辦法先把這過濾掉過濾掉之後對於那些哄抬真正去處罰那些哄抬的否則你如果300多件有一半以上都是這種案件"},{"start":14801.041,"end":14808.869,"text":"那根本就不是真的在抓黃牛那後悔我們行政力量所以我希望執法部份應該有一些樣態、裁法、裁傳謝謝"},{"start":14812.144,"end":14835.878,"text":"謝謝張亮萬間委員那我也簡單說明一下我的部分雖然沒有進來但是跟院版的精神一樣因為我們上次就是也是我自己擔任召委的時候文創產業發展條例才處理過那我想罰款額度然後機器人掃票的話應該要更高這些部分我都很支持那因為今年9月王力宏演唱會跟11月的那個co-play"},{"start":14836.198,"end":14851.308,"text":"都有破獲大量掃案所以代表就是我們體育的黃牛票也應該要比照修法完成再來我們是不是請剛剛是不是要請內政部警政署刑事警察局這邊先說明鄭宏志請用麥克風"},{"start":14863.761,"end":14892.011,"text":"主席還有洪委員謝謝指教那我們警政署接獲相關的這個各部會的那個有關黃牛票這一部分都會依法來偵辦那文創法修法以後啊我們臺北市新北市還有高雄市還有我們刑事局共同有偵破三件剛剛主席也提到王力宏還有王新寧還有郭柏惠的這個三件案件以不正常的這個掃票系統大量來掃票"},{"start":14893.251,"end":14908.712,"text":"那這一部分我們在9月6號也發布我們刑事警察局偵破臺灣手中的AI的這個掃票系統就是黃蓉票這一部分的販售那媒體也大篇盧的報導"},{"start":14909.893,"end":14935.342,"text":"我想我們跟文化部這邊也有建立這個檢舉的黃油專區的網站只要這個民眾或是我們文化部這邊有發現相關的這個賽事或是這個藝文活動有販賣黃油票的這個情形隨時可以透過這個管道跟我們這邊做一個聯繫我們也會主動來追查那相關也會報警檢察官來指揮偵辦以上報告"},{"start":14938.749,"end":14961.436,"text":"好,謝謝。那體育署或是教育部這邊有沒有要說明的?好,先署長請。好,針對陳培宇委員以及林益錦委員針對免費票的部分我想這部分因為是可能到我們跟文化部在他們的環遊票的部分有立法政策的一致性所以我們才會想說我們這部分我們還是沒有將這個"},{"start":14962.816,"end":14986.001,"text":"票面金額那個罰款的部分把它納入那但是呢如果他一樣以虛偽資料或其他不正的方式呢這部分還是有牽涉在裡面這還是可以罰的那因為如果用免費票的部分納入的話第一個他的打擊面是非常的大比方說我們所有的運動賽事只要這方面的免費的這種索票的情況都會納入那之後我們想說是不是讓我們在"},{"start":14991.209,"end":15020.309,"text":"我們是處罰黃牛耶就是我拿了免費的票然後我拿出去不當販售這樣整個的那個範圍會非常非常的大因為我們所有的運動的賽會通只要免費的話因為我們大部分的運動賽會賽事呢請問署長還怎麼會怕處罰很多的黃牛呢我只是說在執行面上面的部分會當然這個OK啦我說我們沒有堅持不要只是說這立法的政策一致性啦是不是那我們在這次立法之後呢之後再做檢討當然如果今天"},{"start":15021.19,"end":15032.661,"text":"委員認為這部分還是要納入,比方說移經委員的每張一萬八以下的這樣的罰款來進行的話,那我們當然就要請文化部這邊,他們可能回去也會有在他們的法的部分也會有一所檢討。"},{"start":15035.529,"end":15057.477,"text":"你請修正東應該有在桌上喔因為我這邊有大家可以看一下好那個張亮萬堅委員第一個是剛才那個警政署這邊喔有回應說有抓到這個我們當然都覺得說這個立法通過之後有這樣子的一個抓到而且用新的法來重罰我覺得這個是可喜可賀啦但是我剛才有問嘛台中有一案他的加價15塊的手續費可是他還是被調查"},{"start":15058.317,"end":15076.245,"text":"那最後也沒有裁罰然後呢卻引發這個民怨我覺得這個齁就是說我們的那個母法底下還是會有一些取締的樣態啦就是說還是要還是要有一個比例原則就沒有人會為了那15塊錢去去做黃牛嘛那像這部分的你們應該要有一些列舉啦"},{"start":15077.77,"end":15106.67,"text":"免得說那個執法機關他覺得有增加幾塊錢他就全部都要調來問那這個這樣也耗費你的整個行政成本然後你沒有真的抓到那個黃牛這是一個另外一個就是說那個免費票的部分我是覺得只有在那個爆滿的譬如說那個這一次的那個巨蛋那個就是都沒就沒有不能進去的可是他是送票那因為其他人不能進去他當然就會有利可圖啦那這部分如果不罰的話還是會引起民怨的"},{"start":15107.61,"end":15131.713,"text":"這部分可能還是要考慮一下還有陳培鈺委員再來吳思耀委員謝謝主席剛剛那個署長提到跟文創法的部分你說希望可以對齊文創法那我要說因為新型態各式各樣的表演型態一直在更新那我覺得立法院的態度應該是都是傾聽民意理解民意的所以我覺得後續文創法如果有需要再修部分再回來調修"},{"start":15132.614,"end":15156.432,"text":"但是我覺得這一次剛剛已經很多委員都說了這一次鎖票的事件其實造成這麼多的民怨我覺得應該還是要在這一次我相信應該委員都會認同還是要把它放進去那如果如同署長說的因為民間太多體育賽事都是免費鎖票那不就是更應該要把這些大家在意的事情放進去嗎好 以上謝謝好 謝謝陳培委員再來吳思瑤委員然後等一下林益謹委員"},{"start":15158.231,"end":15175.04,"text":"兩部分就是剛剛說的零元票價然後他去賣是不是黃牛我覺得當然是啊對不對他就是惡意的他免費取得可是他就得到了"},{"start":15176.246,"end":15203.146,"text":"利益嘛所以說販售以我們如果看林怡瑾委員的修正動議她新增的第三項文字很清楚喔就是販售全面免費索票入場之賽事或活動票券者這個前提就在這裡嘛對不對只是說要不要加一個什麼以高價販售沒關係啦反正就是因為怡瑾這樣寫只要去賣就不行因為每個票證上面都有寫"},{"start":15204.403,"end":15227.659,"text":"零元,而且我記得如果我們看,他會寫說不得轉讓嘛。那不得轉讓甚至就是不得轉賣嘛,不是嗎?所以,如果以這個文字、這個主題就是成立嘛,我們認定他是黃牛。然後呢,怎麼處罰,就是我們要討論的。因為剛剛培餘的版本是每張五百塊,然後去算他的倍數。"},{"start":15229.576,"end":15257.894,"text":"來法十到五十倍那以儆是用它設為法的一定的那個就是用一個統一價去去處罰啦所以我覺得這個是可以討論一下因為這個法是修在文創法之後那這是一種雖然不是說新生樣態以前也有但是這段時間讓我們看到這是必須我們修法的這個timing就是要去回應社會的所以我希望能夠放這第一件事情"},{"start":15258.835,"end":15280.178,"text":"第二件事情大家勞煩可以看一下五四遙版本的二十四條之一我新增的第五項就是剛剛外監委員說的因為運動賽會很多很多已經叫到今天沒辦法去我善意的把我的票讓出去我覺得我們是鼓勵這件事情的因為讓更多人可以到現場去看去支持體育是好的"},{"start":15281.059,"end":15290.796,"text":"所以我針對就是說第二項所訂將運動賽事或活動票券以超過票面金額或定價販售不含行為人自主"},{"start":15293.338,"end":15318.115,"text":"行為人自主辦單位取得運動賽事或活動票券而實際支出之手續費、郵寄費或行為人販售該運動賽事或活動票券所實際支出之郵寄費。就我有給他一個合理的我買的手續費啊或者是我要寄給你對不對大家上網去弄而且我有建議文化部應該建立一個換票平台如果有這個官方換票平台也許就沒有這個問題但目前沒有嘛"},{"start":15320.256,"end":15334.794,"text":"所以說這種合理的東西我今天不能去看統一師然後我要賣給林怡瑾我說我這個郵寄費、快遞費你要多給我兩百塊彼此心甘情願也合理嘛就我變黃牛了"},{"start":15335.515,"end":15336.896,"text":"我還是覺得我的修正動議有起必要性就是說因為"},{"start":15354.072,"end":15360.361,"text":"當然這種所謂的一般的免費賽事很多運動賽事 像是說HBL就是類似這種那這種基本上有黃牛的機會相對少認真講是這樣就學生的賽事運動賽事那像大巨蛋那個測試賽那個"},{"start":15371.135,"end":15392.303,"text":"那個那個就當然發生就是有發生而且我覺得我們還是要用法律來杜絕類似這種大型賽事大家要搶票可是是免費那那有造成黃牛的狀態所以所以像未來我就是像台中啊如果足球足球新的足球場開了那也要測試賽的時候"},{"start":15393.783,"end":15397.905,"text":"我們昏迷同樣的困境所以說我現在在修法的時候就把這個把它完備了起來所以我覺得這個零元票價的這個黃牛這個部分要處理應該要在這次一併處理那再來就是說我贊成那個司堯委員剛剛講的就是說如果這個這個我不能看那我轉讓給別人這個手續費跟這個郵寄費是不是"},{"start":15419.717,"end":15447.277,"text":"排除在黃牛的這個認定上可能會比較OK是不是這個也放在這個讓修法比較完善一點以上好 那再來王婉玉委員記得我當時在我們當時在修法的時候其實就有談到他有幾個樣態嘛包括說他可能變相的方式贈送門票給他比如說他可能要用兩千塊錢買我的簽名然後我送他一張門票的這種變相的方式還有如果是貴賓票券他如果是免費的情況之下如果他轉售怎麼樣來做處理"},{"start":15448.098,"end":15476.991,"text":"我非常清楚當時其實我們部會的回應是說這絕對現在都有辦法處理這都算是在黃牛的範圍之內但實際上今天為什麼要提出修法就是顯然當時的討論真的它就發生了現在有大量的這樣子免費的門票、鎖票之後轉售的情況的確就發生了所以當時其實我覺得就應該要納入來所以這次的修法我們也是完全贊成應該要把免費鎖票又或者是免費的票券更加清楚地來做定義那當時的討論是說如果它是免費票券"},{"start":15477.751,"end":15492.788,"text":"是不是應該用同級的規格來訂定它的這個票價然後來做相對應的倍數的來做處理我覺得不論是這樣的方式又或者是定額的方式我覺得都是一個可以討論的方向但是的確就應該來面對到不論是貴賓券或是不論是整場賽事都是免費的索票的時候都應該要一併來做處理才是比較好的"},{"start":15495.791,"end":15522.435,"text":"那我也支持說應該扣掉適當的手續費不論是用郵寄又或者是面交可能用一定的陳述又或者是一定的金額又或者是固定的金額我覺得都是可以討論的方向因為這也是我們在當時修法的時候就已經提出來的思考方式所以這兩個部分我覺得都應該來面對啦然後也希望能夠具體來討論免費票價的部分如何來做處理好 謝謝齁我想委員的意見都很一致喔那什麼洪孟楷委員發言後體育署這邊就回應好嗎"},{"start":15522.915,"end":15547.94,"text":"好 感謝主席那本席也一樣就身為一個運動迷啦我也認為是說現在的這樣的一個賽事其實主辦不管是HBL不管是UBA這樣的一個賽事也並不是說它沒有成本但是我們政府部門有相關的一個補助所以說它是以推廣運動的角度來免費索取票券但不代表說免費索取票券就應該要被人家濫用變成是獲利的一個來源"},{"start":15548.76,"end":15574.356,"text":"所以這當然是一種形態的一個黃牛其實各行業領域剛剛也有提到貴賓票券或說這個盛大的盛世賽會或者是活動其實都有這樣的狀況我們講的三金金馬金曲金鐘也會有這種索票的一個狀況其實也會有發生說之前也有發生說人家去做免費索票但是轉售的一個狀況所以該杜絕我們應該杜絕那本席也認同剛剛這個吳思耀委員這邊的講法"},{"start":15577.858,"end":15602.708,"text":"這個版本確實如果說有這個交易手續費我們跟平台拿你要去iPhone機你要去什麼機要再多30塊那30塊列印出來的費用你總是應該合理的可以讓大家來做一個轉讓成本的一個概念所以合理的成本應該要把它給扣除那本席這邊多提一個是說我的版本跟其他版本最大不同是有一個累犯條款"},{"start":15603.268,"end":15627.56,"text":"就是三年內如果說違反規定的話增加罰則那我不堅持我講說我不堅持因為今天我們希望是能夠二十四之一條先求有再求好所以我不堅持說一定要把累犯條款放進去有沒有累犯條款會不會讓大家能夠更嚇阻作用大家可以討論那但是本席特別提出來說黃牛這樣的一個行為是讓大家會傷害"},{"start":15628.921,"end":15652.261,"text":"運動迷的心傷害很多球迷的心我們應該用更嚴謹的方式去把它給獨決以上 謝謝好 謝謝那體育署這個鎮署長請回應基本上署面這邊是蠻贊同有設立一個換票平台啦那我們也覺得就是郵寄費這部分的確是合理但手續費的部分只是要小心就是要提醒就是說因為"},{"start":15653.775,"end":15672.095,"text":"犯罪人他有可能在法庭上告訴法官說他所超過票面價這些金額就是他所謂的手續費而這個是沒有一個標準的啦所以在這個案例上面我們是提出提醒那要不要把手續費這件事情納入入法我覺得這個是我們可能要再考量"},{"start":15672.535,"end":15688.441,"text":"那至於免費票的部分看起來執行商是沒有什麼困難之處不過這邊是不是也建議是不是也讓文化部這邊也跟我們分享一下他們的意見跟他們過去的一個執法的狀況好啊那沒有委員反對的話我們就請文化部是哪一位要回應副司長嗎"},{"start":15690.699,"end":15713.249,"text":"呂美麗署長請您分享一下文化部修法後的狀況各位委員大家好我是文化部影視及流行音樂發展師的副市長呂美麗這個法從6月2號執行以後其實我們已經發現它對於整個黃流案件的情形對於藝文票券黃流案件的"},{"start":15714.67,"end":15730.587,"text":"倉爵的情形其實已經有大幅的這個惡質的效果稱如剛剛這個事要委員剛剛所提到的確實已經產生了很大的惡主效果我們並沒有看到過去以往媒體所報導的這個大量的這個高價的轉售譬如說一張票8000塊賣到"},{"start":15732.208,"end":15754.253,"text":"十幾萬塊或者是加價很高的這樣子的一個情形這個憲綱委員說明確實已經產生了很大的惡主效果那我們目前發生了幾個相關的情形綱委員討論的這個公關票我們可以因為這個樣態非常多但其中有一種就是他已經是他是有公開販售的公開販售的他的這個公關票我們會依照當時我們在討論"},{"start":15757.894,"end":15780.141,"text":"二、審訊時的相關定價,我們會用這樣子的情形來處理。所以這部分在法的訂定上是沒有問題的。第二個就是剛剛委員所提到的,它是屬於整場都是零元的這種情形。那整場都是免費票價的,目前我們的處理情形是我們會"},{"start":15781.281,"end":15784.366,"text":"第一個我們會把他這個票移送給這個主辦單位由主辦單位來告訴他們說你們所發出去的這些免費票券有人在這邊公開販售那主辦單位他通常會有兩種處理情形"},{"start":15795.854,"end":15822.416,"text":"主辦單位通常會有兩種處理情形第一個呢他就是會在他的官網上面去公告說目前這一張票是屬於這個黃流票所以他會去註銷他們可以去註銷說這個票卷呢你買了這一張票它是屬於這個黃流票你到時候拿著這個票你是不能夠入場的他們有這樣子的一個相關的處理就是這個主辦單位他們其實也可以用這樣子的方式來請開始"},{"start":15823.297,"end":15850.685,"text":"等一下,注意問一下可是現在會有一個問題喔我買的人我就被買的人我會受到處罰我付了錢然後主辦單位說你不能進場對不對但是賣的人你沒有給他罰沒有給他處罰這樣是罰這個善意的人啊所以確定是有這種樣態就文化部的經驗也有只是說你們的solution是你們認為這樣可以抑止"},{"start":15852.126,"end":15857.21,"text":"就是買的人買方就不會想去買因為他可能會被限制出場但是限制入場但你為什麼不去罰說這種票根本不能賣呢對但是因為當時在我們的法裡面是因為沒有規範到這個"},{"start":15867.398,"end":15892.246,"text":"因為當時我們在這個議文票卷裡面立法說明就提供得很清楚說它是一個公開販售的這個消費的議文票卷所以確實當時在法的討論裡面呢對於全場都是零元的這一部分確實是沒有在法裡面所規範到的那所以呢我們採用了很多的行政措施第一個我們就把這個票卷移給主辦單位由主辦單位他們來相關的的處理那那時候我們也"},{"start":15893.186,"end":15908.242,"text":"主辦單位也給了我們說怎麼樣去處理這些票券的一些相關的建議那這個他們是不是這樣實施其實我們都尊重主辦單位的所以簡單講你們同意我們修 對不對因為也可以解決你們因為沒有修到那一條"},{"start":15908.763,"end":15908.843,"text":"請審討《文創法》的解釋"},{"start":15937.933,"end":15957.704,"text":"我先講一下,因為我們有版本,可是我沒有堅持,我剛剛跟詹大望前委員,我沒有堅持要我的版本或移行委員的版本,可是就是希望要把這個零元票券入法。以上,謝謝。OK,那洪孟楷委員?剛剛講到那個手續費的部分,我建議是你可以加入不合理的手續費。因為剛剛,我們還是應該有合理的手續費嘛。"},{"start":15958.464,"end":15984.794,"text":"合理的手續費是什麼?譬如說我們去拿iPhone機那個30塊的印票券的費用可是如果你講的是說無限上綱說我請人家代牌5000塊所以說我要賣人家多5000塊我覺得這樣就不合理了還有就是說你應該如果說真的有這樣相關的行為的話應該是要拿出相關的單據事證所以說其實這還是可以避免的我們應該是修法獨指這種專漏洞的情形而不是我們"},{"start":15985.934,"end":16003.656,"text":"不把這個漏洞給補起來您可以懂我意思嗎?所以我覺得說剛剛署長你提到是說可能未來認定問題但是我們就應該在法條裡面寫得很清楚譬如說不合理超出售票超出不合理的手續費或是我們一般認知的手續費那就屬於黃牛行為以上 謝謝"},{"start":16005.185,"end":16019.34,"text":"那個你們文字準備好了嗎?因為我想大家意見趨於一致那如果還沒我們是不是休息我建議休息五分鐘五分鐘之後等到文字弄完之後我們就來一起通過好不好因為大家蠻有共識的我們現在休息五分鐘五分鐘後繼續開會"},{"start":16027.785,"end":16039.222,"text":"公開販售機將公開販售的比賽式或活動的條例超過密碼,又一天要賣乾淨,或是把該賽式或活動的條例分量"},{"start":16043.307,"end":16043.688,"text":"二、審查 ﹝審查 ﹞"},{"start":16073.347,"end":16082.629,"text":"範疇之教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":16101.772,"end":16120.517,"text":"判斷現場運動品牌族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館族館一站,就是用族館�"},{"start":16122.93,"end":16123.09,"text":"二、審查 ﹝審查 ﹝審查 ﹞"},{"start":16146.288,"end":16164.863,"text":"我爸媽這張照片是那一年江匯我只是跟你說你看我爸媽很高興他們來聽你講話我出錢買票我弟弟他們都帶他上來你知道那時候好像江匯的票非常大我就用兩倍的票兩倍的錢向金融去買我媽媽的票而且江匯比較好"},{"start":16167.125,"end":16184.753,"text":"對,他那個洪孟楷所以我那時候跟家裡的三個都不一樣他國帝他們幫我幫我抱他這樣帶上來聽完之後把我帶回家我記得嘛,我那時候知道有人在賣就問了一下,我說你那個聽說誰誰誰然後我聽到說那個姓崔,知道嗎?我就很感動,對他說有很多人想要跟他接受"},{"start":16194.117,"end":16209.652,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、"},{"start":16216.584,"end":16226.689,"text":"一、潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形、運動員心理健康之整備情形、運動員心理健康之整備情形"},{"start":16245.248,"end":16261.098,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查"},{"start":16273.316,"end":16292.287,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16297.333,"end":16299.635,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16321.157,"end":16326.782,"text":"一張就一萬八五下五下就是說它依照清潔的程度可是按照張數如果它賣的最高最高"},{"start":16343.729,"end":16364.331,"text":"二、倫敦大學教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、倫敦大學教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16365.152,"end":16369.435,"text":"鄉鄰座位的票價?同一區的?"},{"start":16387.111,"end":16388.792,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16407.405,"end":16412.788,"text":"他猜拔樣態就會變成一樣的,就是說有錯。這是完全爭鬥,全面的,東東北北。希望各位不會懶散。"},{"start":16422.692,"end":16426.216,"text":"議員真的很想去,但拿不到啊。就有機殼秤,那就有機殼秤。"},{"start":16441.09,"end":16458.256,"text":"因為文化部因為他們其實也是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的他們是常在立法所內的"},{"start":16468.84,"end":16482.889,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16508.602,"end":16510.023,"text":"一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、一、二、"},{"start":16526.288,"end":16546.908,"text":"其部份免費就按照那個文草條例嗎?我們這個文草條例也不會有那麼多的A、G、B、C、E、B、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、A、B、O、D、C、"},{"start":16553.337,"end":16558.76,"text":"大陸的大陸有大陸是想要成立的社交網站﹖這個就是極限能量大會的市場﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖"},{"start":16583.499,"end":16589.465,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查 ﹐一、審查"},{"start":16614.428,"end":16637.562,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴�"},{"start":16643.839,"end":16666.395,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴�"},{"start":16668.972,"end":16693.399,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16704.638,"end":16712.66,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16716.271,"end":16737.001,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16738.98,"end":16759.778,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16759.938,"end":16780.177,"text":"一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴�"},{"start":16781.818,"end":16799.948,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":16802.169,"end":16802.69,"text":"二、審查 ﹝審查 ﹝審查 ﹝審查 ﹞"},{"start":16818.268,"end":16819.629,"text":"二、審查 ﹐一、邀請教育部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":16836.727,"end":16853.692,"text":"他們是幫立法所調給這個協議。或領委員期待標誌來交出。那這樣不是那麼有效果嗎?因為文化部人自己也沒有把這條提出來,然後還說他們把票丟回去院子管理處來說,誒,你們知道嗎?他們說的應該也是前面那一段,前面那一段是他們這樣推出來的。"},{"start":16873.474,"end":16874.555,"text":"原來公關販購裡面也有沒有訂價的。"},{"start":16880.14,"end":16885.722,"text":"將公開販售之運動賽事或活動票券以超過票面金額或將該運動賽事或活動無票面金額票券定價販售者 按票券章數 由主管機關每張票面金額或"},{"start":16909.873,"end":16932.913,"text":"無票面金額票券區域對照所應販售票面金額定價之十倍至五十倍罰款拒號將免費入場之運動賽事或活動票券定價販售者逗號按票面章數逗號由主管機關儲每張票券一萬八千元以下罰款拒號這樣"},{"start":16936.889,"end":16946.252,"text":"第三行對照所應販售票面金額定價刪掉舉個例子來講他就是拿到一張一千塊區域的公關票"},{"start":16957.141,"end":16976.935,"text":"賣了三千塊但是依照我們原來的規定就是不用三千塊去倍數法是用一千塊的十到五十倍所以它就會變成是以該區域對照所應販售的票面金額一千塊是這個意思好謝謝那個吳思耀委員要發言嗎兩個事情第一個第一句話語重無敵長齁那個處長"},{"start":16980.771,"end":16995.351,"text":"是不是這裡以超過票面金額這裡是不是要一個逗號逗號然後或將這個東西怎樣的販售再去處理要不要可以把逗號放在那個或活動票券"},{"start":16996.132,"end":17007.521,"text":"票券的後面可以就是那個主詞是將公開販售之運動賽事或活動票券後面逗號因為前面是主詞這樣還有三種用什麼方法的貨對"},{"start":17011.684,"end":17040.274,"text":"好,然後第二個提醒一下因為它有兩種裁罰的基準一個是十倍、五十倍一個是一萬八它各有不同的援引的實務或者是涉違法你們在立法說明裡頭要加強說明否則一般人會覺得這兩個計算是怎麼來的啦你們在那個立法說明裡頭要補充說明這兩個裁罰的現況引用的條文是什麼參照的條文是什麼"},{"start":17041.277,"end":17055.834,"text":"因為我是沒有去細究我坦白講我現在在這裡我並不知道這樣的裁判是不是合理的但是我採信剛剛移情委員跟培育委員他們去研究過但外界可能也會有第一次看會覺得說為什麼是這樣罰這個你們要判斷跟強化說明一下"},{"start":17062.349,"end":17079.398,"text":"好 法治這邊是不是說明一下第四行那個章數是票券章數 不是票面章數第四行的章數是按票券對 章數是用票券票券章數好 林益錦委員"},{"start":17081.642,"end":17105.875,"text":"如果要有一些區隔因為有些賽事是其實是要是有錢的可是他可能有一些貴賓券或公關券那個是免錢的所以那個裁罰是適用前段那所以這個免費入場就是全面免費入場所以我說我覺得那如果要區隔是不是就將將全面免費入場之運動賽事後面用這樣來區隔"},{"start":17110.626,"end":17138.549,"text":"全面免費入場,全部不用錢的啦。這種的就是有社會法,就是每張一萬八以下的罰款。那如果說部分要錢,部分不用錢的,就試用它的那個前面的就是區塊多少錢,用區塊十至五十倍來罰。嗯。林議員建議後面那個加全面,就是全面免費的,前面那個比較像貴賓券拿去賣嗎?對。"},{"start":17140.137,"end":17161.53,"text":"全面 就是這條全部都不用寫啦剛剛署長建議要把那個全面刪掉的因為我們處理的是要買的但是有一部分是免費的公關票這是一種類型那另外一種就是說有一些賽事它是直接就開放外也是免費的"},{"start":17164.176,"end":17173.752,"text":"內也是要買票的,外也是免費索票的。就是不是全面,但是外也都免費。其實到說外也這種免費索票的到底要用前段來法還是後段來法?"},{"start":17178.212,"end":17200.028,"text":"如同剛法制說的若外也是免費就是過往的慣例就是這樣可是他要拿去賣的話那實務上他們會用後段來開罰對不對就會試用後面法制的意思是這樣對不對對就是部分免費也是試用後面前面就是貴賓券那種有價的免費票是前面然後部分免費或全面免費就是後面對"},{"start":17202.6,"end":17214.367,"text":"這樣解釋說明文字說明清楚一點就好啦那針對這個第二四條之一關於免費票券的黃牛罰款大家同意了嗎這個部分"},{"start":17219.645,"end":17240.974,"text":"報告主席確實我們因為今天是臨時寫這個條文我們要處理的有兩種類型的免費票一種就是前段的就是它全面是公開要賣票的但保留部分席次是臨遠的公關票就是放在前段但是剛剛提到的是全面或是部分免費進場的"},{"start":17242.415,"end":17264.793,"text":"他是制度性的部分免費進場所以我們是不是用這種方式來區隔前面跟後面就是全面跟部分免費進場的就後段好 林益金委員所以在立法說明真的要詳細寫清楚這是不是把那個說明的文字也寫出來說明文字是不是授權他們去寫啊"},{"start":17267.89,"end":17292.341,"text":"你是說現在就把將全面或部分這個放進去這樣子可能比較明確一點好不好如果沒有委員反對那個將全面或部分免費入場就是什麼外野免費或者是說像這次全面免費這樣就比較明確一點啦前面就是公關票或是貴賓票後面就是全面或什麼外野部分免費的"},{"start":17299.809,"end":17313.556,"text":"這樣大家OK嗎?在場的委員都OK?已經盡可能周延了啦。那有沒有人針對這個修正條文還有不同的意見要再修正?吳斯耀委員。"},{"start":17315.578,"end":17335.796,"text":"就是好這一個解決了嗎那剛剛我跟萬間委員講的就是合宜的讓渡他的票有合理的郵寄費手續費好那我們不糾結在這不入法的話因為事要版本是加第五項不入法的話我們請就你一個附帶決議好嗎針對這樣子的狀況避免去"},{"start":17341.813,"end":17354.94,"text":"負罰了善意的消費者,然後你們要訂定一個方式來處理,好不好?用一個附帶決議好不好?我想大家應該都支持,附帶決議,手續費的部分,附帶決議你們準備了嗎?合理的手續費跟郵寄費,它不是黃牛的行為。在寫了齁?對,正在寫了。"},{"start":17364.178,"end":17365.298,"text":"貨、活動、票券、定價、免費票券"},{"start":17395.356,"end":17408.622,"text":"獲活動免費票券定價販售者?內野要錢,外野不用錢的。他只有把外野的拿去賣才用後面的。內野的話就用前面的公開販售的。"},{"start":17412.263,"end":17419.546,"text":"我建議就是說你們法治大家再看一下確保我們等一下因為附帶決議還沒寫好我們先把今天還有兩個臨時提案處理完之後那邊附帶決議是不是寫好了我們再一起來確定一下修改的文字和附帶決議然後我們再通過那個部分還有立法說明也要請教育部這邊補充"},{"start":17441.173,"end":17447.585,"text":"我們現在處理臨時提案有委員提出臨時提案即兩案請宣讀第一案"},{"start":17448.689,"end":17464.115,"text":"近年來單側聽損對於單身人日常生活及學習之影響嚴重性逐漸受到重視為保障單側聽損者之權益並提供必要協助衛福部業已於110年放寬聽損標準並滾動式檢討單側聽損權益保障問題教育部也針對單側聽損學童提供必要協助與資源"},{"start":17473.218,"end":17501.652,"text":"然而與實際需求仍有相當落差有介於特教法已於112年修正全文並公佈施行然而身心障礙及資富優異學生鑑定辦法超過十年未曾修正為保障單冊聽損學童授教權提供資源及協助時有配合修正必要原請教育部研議將身心障礙及資富優異學生鑑定辦法"},{"start":17502.492,"end":17509.597,"text":"第五條有關聽覺障礙鑒定基準純聽音力檢查結果部分修正為一"},{"start":17535.295,"end":17553.832,"text":"針對臨時提案第一案委員有沒有任何的意見沒有沒有沒有意見那請教育部部長配合辦理好 配合辦理好 那我們第一案加入聯署好 加入聯署可以到前面來加入聯署所以第一案照案通過那我們臨時提案第二案"},{"start":17555.753,"end":17573.463,"text":"請宣讀。查2024臺維斯杯世界組總決賽資格戰將於明年2月3至4月登場。我國代表隊將在主場迎戰法國代表隊。此戰同時亦為對時首度前進臺維斯杯世界組總決賽資格戰。"},{"start":17576.164,"end":17595.512,"text":"然據了解網協目前無論就場地規劃保險事宜與出場費的細節均尚未與選手進行說明更遑論如何以宣傳製造主場優勢吸引觀眾入場之規劃。原此為確保選手權益與相關配套請教育部積極輔導中華民國網球協會規劃"},{"start":17599.374,"end":17610.602,"text":"並與參賽之職業選手溝通相關升級保險如運動員短期失能顯示儀並於售票狀況下依《國民體育法》第21條第5項推定體育團體舉辦或參與據收益之商業性賽會時應支付選手出賽費與選手集體協商相關出場費規劃同時亦應確保場地與觀眾席狀況"},{"start":17624.452,"end":17638.312,"text":"前述事項請於一個月內向本院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告提案人黃國蘇聯屬人陳佩玉、陳靜敏、范雲、吳思堯、林怡瑾、陳秀寶宣讀完畢"},{"start":17641.068,"end":17663.813,"text":"針對臨時提案第二案有沒有委員有補充意見?我先說明一下這個提案黃國樹委員請我幫忙說明就是希望體育署可以幫忙加強宣傳因為這個是台灣難得以來打到這麼好的成績那明年二月即將在台灣舉辦相關比賽那我相信一定又會再有更多球迷或者是小選手們、家長們會積極的參與所以這個部分就是要拜託體育署加強宣傳跟網協考慮票價合理性的部分以上"},{"start":17672.976,"end":17675.398,"text":"第二項有沒有委員有任何的新的修正動議?"},{"start":17700.013,"end":17708.678,"text":"一萬八千元前面按照體力加新台幣三個字。委員有沒有反對意見?沒有。那就加新台幣三個字。還有沒有其他的修正意見?"},{"start":17722.801,"end":17751.424,"text":"那個法制這邊說明一下因為這個條文是今天有一些實質比較大幅度的改變為其審慎記我們是不是大家再仔細的再確認一下立法的構想的前段是要處理那一種全面性公開販售的這一種這一種賽事所以說因為後面會夾雜一個叫做部分免費意味著就是部分還是公開販售"},{"start":17754.528,"end":17778.079,"text":"如果這樣真的要切清楚的話是不是前面第一項就前面這樣將全面公開販售這個就是指全部都要的但是這樣也不行因為你看還有一個叫部分公開販售的所以我們還是用公開販售就會包括全場都要也包括只賣內野的就在前段那在賣內野裡頭呢"},{"start":17780.322,"end":17802.714,"text":"如果是內野裡面賣的票裡頭又有公關票他如果用了這公關票去賣的話還是適用前段用那個公關票對應的區域的來罰他如果他把外野的免費所票的拿去賣就用後段來處一萬八以下另外是全面免費的也是用後段大概"},{"start":17803.715,"end":17806.136,"text":"將公開販售之運動賽事或活動票券 已超過票面金額或將該運動賽事或活動"},{"start":17828.823,"end":17845.484,"text":"無票面金額票券定價販售者按票券張數由主管機關儲每張票面金額或無票面金額票券區域對照所應販售票面金額之十倍或五十倍罰款"},{"start":17847.367,"end":17861.602,"text":"將全面或部分免費入場之運動、賽事或活動免費票券定價販售者 按票券章數 由主管機關儲每張票券新台幣一萬八千元以下罰款有沒有任何的修正意見?"},{"start":17869.904,"end":17891.27,"text":"沒有的話我們就通過囉那這個立法說明請你們補充好嗎是不是授權給你們補充說明清楚盡快給我們這個秘書處這邊那附帶決議的部分你們準備好了嗎附帶決議的部分那是不是可以發給我們委員了"},{"start":17894.864,"end":17899.028,"text":"那附帶決議的部分在哪裡?附帶決議的部分也在螢幕上。是不是請委員簽一下,因為我們附帶決議的,就是剛剛講的那個手續費的部分。"},{"start":17919.096,"end":17921.357,"text":"請委員簽完之後我們再唸。請委員簽完之後我們再唸。"},{"start":17950.913,"end":17950.953,"text":"好了嗎?"},{"start":17981.186,"end":18002.588,"text":"一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」進行專題報告：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就:「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形。」"},{"start":18004.495,"end":18011.437,"text":"政府應致力於保障民眾觀賞運動、賽事或活動之權益以確保運動、賽事或活動票券正常流通並針對將運動、賽事或活動票券以超過票面金額或定價販售者不含行為人自主"},{"start":18032.421,"end":18050.174,"text":"自主辦單位取得運動賽事或活動票捐而實際支出之合理手續費據。那個吳斯耀委員請發言。就是說政府要保障他的權益,確保他的政權有充滿,並針對將運動賽事活動...就是主詞有點怪啦,就是說..."},{"start":18060.346,"end":18078.54,"text":"將運動賽事照顧…好,我用最小幅度的改正,看可不可以。針對將這種販售者因不含行為人自主辦單位取得運動…實質不知合理手續費、頓耗、郵寄費還有郵寄費喔?還有一個什麼費?"},{"start":18081.499,"end":18092.662,"text":"就是說我轉給人家嘛,對不對?合理手續及郵寄費等或手續費等轉讓之合理手續或郵寄等費用對,就是說這個東西應該是包含之合理行為或什麼之這是一種可以接受行為,像什麼這樣?"},{"start":18117.705,"end":18125.311,"text":"因不含行為人自主辦單位取得運動賽事或活動票券而實際支出之合理手續費或郵寄費等費用。"},{"start":18138.234,"end":18140.094,"text":"這樣可以嗎?這樣好像蠻清楚的自主辦都會取得寫的是我的那個意思嗎?可是問題是你要針對就是針對這個超過就是要處分他們嘛不函不函這些人不函後面這些人所以你針對這個要幹嘛?你沒有寫啊"},{"start":18169.076,"end":18176.299,"text":"我們這個體育署這個文字的能力可以加強一下 對不對 這個的確有這個問題耶針對將運動賽事或運動賽事以熱忱對 針對這個應該要 要怎麼樣 針對他們予以什麼 對對對對啊"},{"start":18192.639,"end":18199.106,"text":"政府應致力於保障民眾觀賞運動賽事或活動之權益,以確保運動賽事或活動票券正常流通,針對將刪除。"},{"start":18214.468,"end":18216.25,"text":"針對運動賽事或活動票券已超過票面金額或定價販售之計算。"},{"start":18231.658,"end":18257.25,"text":"之計算 可以改成之裁罰樣態嗎?因為我們要講的是裁罰樣態吧?那個 法制 我們要講的是裁罰樣態 對嗎?你說他的計算的金額要把那個那個合理手續費扣掉嗎?不是不是 我們要講的是他們在轉讓 我要把票轉給陳秀寶委員然後扣 我花了手續費嘛我去iBone領票或是我郵寄這個費用的裁罰樣態當我加在這個票裡面其實是不在裁罰樣態裡面所以應該要把那個者"},{"start":18260.212,"end":18274.983,"text":"訂價之販售者的那個者改成財閥樣態應不含這些這些這些這樣才對吧?就是這種人啊我是買了票不能去看啊就是寫的跟這個完全無關啊是另外一個樣態啊不是不是我們講的就是法治表這種無關的說這樣"},{"start":18284.591,"end":18303.95,"text":"我們這個附帶決議基本上就是說我們要裁罰黃牛者可是這些黃牛不含這些合理的手續費跟郵寄費用多增加的錢比票面券多增加的錢如果多增加的是郵寄費跟合理的手續費這是不屬於黃牛的樣態我們這個附帶決議是要表達這個意思耶"},{"start":18308.955,"end":18322.995,"text":"就是我是善良老百姓我今天買了票我今天要約會不能去看了我把它賣給林怡瑾我不是去賺暴利嘛我是賺給我的好朋友可是我要用快遞寄給他所以我要多收他快遞錢70塊"},{"start":18326.35,"end":18340.604,"text":"我這種行為不叫黃牛我這種行為叫做我合理的轉讓我已經購入的票好 那如果是這樣的話是運動賽事或票券這個就都沒有喔就是將運動賽事或活動票券加計"},{"start":18351.713,"end":18370.502,"text":"行為人質巴拉巴拉巴拉的合理費用轉讓票券者非屬文法所定黃牛行為。是這個意思嗎?這個太樣就不是黃牛行為。對,對,對,這樣運動是...等一下,你的文字先改一下,我看一下。"},{"start":18372.176,"end":18372.637,"text":"加計將運動賽事獲票券收取。"},{"start":18387.133,"end":18413.881,"text":"去郵寄又花了一百五十塊所以我就收你三千一百五十塊委員的意思是說這個不是黃領嘛這是善意的轉讓而已嘛那我們就講說將運動賽事或活動票件然後加計收取然後呢那個後面都不要了對加收取然後刪到那個行為人的前面刪掉"},{"start":18416.178,"end":18423.5,"text":"加計收取行為人自主辦單位取得運動賽事票券而實際支出之合理所需費或郵寄費等費用"},{"start":18442.881,"end":18443.361,"text":"針對善意轉讓票券者鬥點"},{"start":18472.309,"end":18484.816,"text":"如果我們裡面沒有用黃牛對 那個主持剛講那個黃牛行為就是我們剛講不再裁髮樣態就是非屬本條裁髮之狀態啊我們黃牛是俗稱嘛對非屬本條本相裁髮之樣態之類的本法規範之裁髮樣態啦非屬本法規範之裁髮樣態啦對 不要用黃牛"},{"start":18501.804,"end":18525.729,"text":"本法非屬本法規範之財法樣態。非屬本條例規範之非法加價販售行為。我好想把善意轉讓四個字放進去。就方艾前我剛剛講的針對"},{"start":18530.131,"end":18551.569,"text":"法律上有善意轉讓這四個字嗎?因為這樣在執行上不要再加善意了好不好二義善意這樣太多了就手續費這些就好了啦好因為我們這是附帶決議喔這個已經花了很多時間了大家看一下是不是然後已經簽的就簽了齁到時候再文字加價的加寫錯了齁"},{"start":18554.79,"end":18558.513,"text":"加價販售非屬本條例規範之加價販售裁罰樣態。"},{"start":18571.394,"end":18589.549,"text":"那我們現在就通過待會大家補簽那剛剛條文也通過了我提醒一件事情好不好署長跟部長在這裡因為今天有幾位委員都有講到實名制的部分那現在文化部對於實名制他還是就是鼓勵不強制"},{"start":18590.41,"end":18604.226,"text":"那我覺得你們要這樣子去學習他們的經驗然後呢我要說的是在這裡文化部端了一個要點叫做文化部鼓勵流行音樂現場演出實施票券實名制補助作業要點"},{"start":18605.307,"end":18622.851,"text":"你們要做一個體育署針對體育的這種票券實施實名制的補助樣點你要有這個要點才能夠真的去鼓勵他們只要你們用實名制我有鼓勵的行政措施大家才會慢慢地聽上來幫委員這個已經存在了你們存在?已經有了你們那個叫什麼?我們從來不知道運產運動產業輔導講座辦法裡面就有這個嗎?我們運產條例底下的執法我們已經訂了那你們給我們看一下好不好?"},{"start":18635.333,"end":18662.388,"text":"那但是你們什麼時候頒布的顯然沒有起什麼聯誼跟效用啊要不然怎麼會大家都還講說你們要不要做實名制呢如果你早有這件事情了那應該是文化部選你們了報告委員其實在106年那時候也是大院這邊修正運產條例當時在第八條的條文就有授權一個執法叫講出辦法講出你們包含"},{"start":18663.768,"end":18684.557,"text":"其他項這邊就可以做處理但是你們有嗎?有包含鼓勵實名制嗎?現在有做嗎?有在裡面嗎?跟委員報告其實我們在動識圈的ABI借接只要廠商他跟我們ABI借接系統需要改善我們就已經做處理就有講住了你在說的是另外一件事我在說實名制的"},{"start":18686.464,"end":18713.512,"text":"賣票是不是要實名制這件事情你們現在有補助嗎有補助給主辦這種賽事的人他只要用實名制販售票有給補助嗎跟委員報告現在就是母法只要一通過我們用講注辦法就可以所以現在有沒有放進去嗎其他項在那個條文裡面其他項就可以那條文裡面很多包括其他對不對我聽懂了那署長麻煩你就把其他裡面加一個鼓勵"},{"start":18715.706,"end":18737.321,"text":"舉辦實名制的賽會叫OK?這樣才叫做有回應我們說的了解這是我們對文化部也是一樣的要求啦你們要去鼓勵獎勵啦好不好好那謝謝吳思耀委員的意見喔那我們今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文藝前提下"},{"start":18737.961,"end":18758.02,"text":"文字、條字及標點符號為統一體例授權議事人員修改列入紀錄,位於採納條文授權議事人員確認。因為時間很趕,請立法說明的部分讓我們比較關注的委員能夠看過之後,是不是能夠今天下班前送到議事人員這裡,因為這樣時間才來得及。"},{"start":18761.643,"end":18778.278,"text":"關於今天會議我們做如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":18780.04,"end":18786.283,"text":"運動產業發展條例相關草案已全部審查完略不須交由黨團協商並按領據審查報告並於12月7日提請院會討論。院會討論時由范昭吉委員允補充說明"},{"start":18796.202,"end":18816.179,"text":"附帶決議的部分二十四條之一附帶決議提案人范雲、林怡瑾、陳培瑜、陳秀寶、吳思瑤請問各提案如果有委員要補充的話再補充報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位真的大家辛苦了我們拍個照吧都那個還沒吃飯到快兩點了"},{"start":18824.745,"end":18826.186,"text":"來來來來來來來來辛苦辛苦"},{"start":18840.052,"end":18855.508,"text":"一、二、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、"}]}},{"id":"15335","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15335","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685718b3f23d56109beea5b031af9c32cfd46d53a332764a535d540b3a1565ae2515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員劉建國等18人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n三、繼續審查委員吳玉琴等16人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n四、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n五、繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等23人擬具「國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n六、繼續審查委員林為洲等17人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n七、繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等17人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n八、繼續審查委員張育美等17人擬具「國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n九、繼續審查委員邱泰源等19人擬具「國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十、繼續審查委員陳靜敏等18人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十一、繼續審查委員林淑芬等19人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十二、審查委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十三、審查委員莊競程等21人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十四、審查時代力量黨團擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十五、審查請願文書69案。\n【第十四案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【本次會議逐條討論】）","type":"Full","date":"2023-12-06","start_time":"2023-12-06T08:30:44+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-10-8-26-13"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2023-12-06T13:30:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":17956,"委員發言時間":"08:30:44 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、四、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨委員吳"},{"start":1202.841,"end":1204.104,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人擬具、「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案。」案。"},{"start":2126.916,"end":2145.641,"text":"我們出席委員一族法定人數先開會。請議事院宣讀上次會議議事錄。宣讀立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議議事錄。時間112年11月23日星期四九十二分至十二時五十一分。地點群憲樓801會議室。出席委員吳玉琴等13人。"},{"start":2149.082,"end":2162.126,"text":"列席委員陳敬明等4人列席官員衛生福利部部長薛瑞元等相關人員主席吳召集委員辛盈報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況並備質詢本次會議由衛生福利部部長報告後委員吳玉琴等10人提出質詢"},{"start":2169.848,"end":2183.578,"text":"均經衛生福利部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆委員楊耀、賴慧媛、吳欣盈及王婉玉所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其鎖定討論事項繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具數位醫療發展條例草案案"},{"start":2195.746,"end":2201.909,"text":"本次會議由委員吳欣盈等3人提出部分條文修正動議。委員邱太元等5人提出第8條條文修正動議。決議台灣民眾黨黨團擬具數位醫療發展條例草案案審查完均。內容如審查結果、擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論時由吳昭吉委員欣盈補充說明需交黨團協商。審查結果"},{"start":2218.877,"end":2239.758,"text":"一、照案通過第一章章名、第二條條文、第五章章名、二、保留法案名稱第二章至第四章章名、第一條及第三條至第二十二條條文、三、保留之修正動議二案。宣讀完畢。我等一下再確定意識度齁。好本次會議議程為"},{"start":2241.601,"end":2265.638,"text":"一、繼續審查委員台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬具《營養及健康飲食促進法草案》七案以及委員分別擬具《國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案》暨三案。二、審查行政院函請審議委員時代力量黨團分別擬具《營養及健康飲食促進法草案》共暨四案。"},{"start":2268.346,"end":2287.275,"text":"審查前任文書69案、包括衛生福利部36案、勞動部22案、環境部11案。現在介紹在場委員及列席官員。衛生福利部周志浩次長、國民健康署吳昭金署長、"},{"start":2296.807,"end":2315.884,"text":"議事司劉玉京副司長社會救濟室及社公司房屬會專委法規會席子會專委食品藥物管理署蕭惠文檢任記證社會及家庭署蕭信榮組長檢信榮組長請問我要喝多一點咖啡"},{"start":2327.023,"end":2353.097,"text":"行政院主計總署公務預算處張家瑜專委行政院人事行政總署主編人力處張雅惠專委培訓考用處陳怡君專委農業部輔導師陳怡任副市長農糧史祖英瑞宇專員原住民組委員會社會福利處羅賀祿處長"},{"start":2357.476,"end":2381.496,"text":"勞動部職業安全衛生署業配檢記教育部中國規劃司張金署副司長中生教育司許家倩專委國民及血錢教育署詹雅惠副組長國防部軍醫及衛情保健處陸"},{"start":2388.191,"end":2409.908,"text":"吳玉處長後勤參謀次長是後勤管理處張志輝副處長內政部合作及人民團體司陳敬廷專委法務部汪南軍參事矯正署吳淳宜 Benson"},{"start":2411.073,"end":2417.078,"text":"國家通信傳播委員會電台與內容事務處黃財政檢認視察。謝謝。好,先做一下說明"},{"start":2439.269,"end":2455.173,"text":"一、有關委員劉建國等18人委員吳玉琴等16人台灣民眾黨黨團委員林維作等17人委員楊昌英等17人委員陳靜敏等18人委員林時溫等16人分別擬具營養及健康飲食促進法草案7案委員蘇曉慧等23人委員張玉美"},{"start":2457.625,"end":2475.699,"text":"等17人委員邱泰恩等19人分別擬具國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案暨三案不列於第7會期第13次會議說明及審查完畢二、現在委員會交互行政院函請審議委員陳培宇等16人委員鍾景成21人"},{"start":2478.621,"end":2506.563,"text":"等21人時代力量黨團分別擬具營養及健康飲食促進法草案暨施案。檢理本次會議與上述實案並按審查。三、為求討論條文內容聚焦增進本法審議效率,委席具體建議為科火同意延往例與行政院之提案版本為條文基礎,對到其他提案版本主條進行審查。有沒有意見?沒有意見,通過。"},{"start":2509.368,"end":2536.002,"text":"本次在交通知識提案僅進行提案說明,不定做詢答。現在請新增提案委員黨團代表說明提案要職每位委員兩分鐘。一、請陳佩瑜委員說明。陳佩瑜說明不在。二、請莊敬成委員說明。莊敬成他有簽名,他不在齁。好,不在。欸?你已經,你還沒有說明過?"},{"start":2537.196,"end":2538.957,"text":"好,那就請陳靜敏委員說明,來。好,謝謝主席,我坐很久就是要提案說明。好,謝謝主席,讓我有機會來說明。那主要是這個營養及健康飲食促進法案草案,其實在第九會期的時候就已經提出,那我自己也在第九會期的時候有我的版本,"},{"start":2564.136,"end":2583.465,"text":" bicy 因為法案藉其不續審的關係所以過去的一些的提案內容我希望在今年的提案裡面能夠再跟我們行政院這邊做充分的溝通說明那主要我的版本跟院版其實這個意旨是差不多的那我自己比較大的差異應該是在第12條"},{"start":2585.706,"end":2588.467,"text":"就是有關建立高營養風險族群偏鄉族群及極慢性營養相關病患的營養調查及設定營養及飲食建議。攝取基準的這一塊我自己覺得還蠻重要的。"},{"start":2602.973,"end":2607.996,"text":"主要是因為世界衛生組織已經指出所謂的非傳染性疾病造成每年超過4100萬人的死亡那這個問題特別對國人來說影響也非常的大因為以我們的十大死因調查因為慢性病死亡的原因也超過一半以上那現在實務上面對於相關的這個內涵上面我特別在這個修法的草案版本裡面提出"},{"start":2631.67,"end":2658.28,"text":"我們中央主管機關應該要依據我們的國人及慢性營養相關疾病的現況以實證為基礎定定臨床營養及疾病飲食的指引主要是因為我覺得這個影響甚大那當然這個行政院有提到現在有提到的這個營養推動中心各社區的營養推動中心那它的成效如何都還是值得再做檢討跟說明那這個部分等一下我在主條討論的時候也在"},{"start":2660.561,"end":2675.077,"text":"也還會再跟我們行政院這邊做溝通說明以上我是希望能夠讓行政院能夠有考量然後在意見交換的時候共同把關建立正確的健康飲食觀念維護國民的健康以上謝謝陳建民委員的說明好謝謝我們接下來請"},{"start":2685.379,"end":2687.564,"text":"衛福部次長周志浩次長說明時間10分鐘以內請"},{"start":2696.441,"end":2712.316,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士、先生今天大院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開第13次全體委員會審查營養及健康飲食促進法草案等14案本部應呈"},{"start":2713.317,"end":2725.929,"text":"要列席報告,進行各位委員不定指教。為了建構健康的飲食環境,提升人民的營養以及健康飲食的職能,促進人民的健康,藉由制定專法來改善相關的這些問題。"},{"start":2728.611,"end":2753.976,"text":"實在是非常的有必要的那整個的草案總共分為6張25條那主要是分為4個大面向第一個大面向是完備行政的一個資源系統那裡面包含各機關的這裡面的職責及分權還有在裡面的國民營養的這些的教育等等事項第二個是確保健康的飲食那這裡面當然重要是重點是在於我們要會進行來營養調查以及擬定人民營養及飲食"},{"start":2756.396,"end":2774.126,"text":"飲食建議的攝取的基準,同時相關的補助的計畫裡頭也能夠考量營養的這些低質。第三個大面向是營造健康飲食支持的環境,主要是對於這些相關的機構進行輔導、獎勵以及在職的相關的教育。第四個面向是推動營養以及健康飲食的"},{"start":2774.606,"end":2792.118,"text":"教育這部分當然是我們對於相關的法人或是相關的機構進行輔導特別是對於禁止傳播不實營養及健康飲食的消息的部分列出相關的法則至於說黨團及委員版本大致上都跟行政院所函請審議的這個版本精神及意旨相近"},{"start":2795.991,"end":2817.468,"text":"各別黨團及委員的版本提案查譯及回應的部分的說明我們是建議來參閱和參考這裡面的我們所提供的書面資料本案如果能夠順利通過的話對於我們推動營養及健康飲食的相關的經費法源有個依據同時也有助於建立支持的環境保障健康飲食的選擇的一個機會確保資訊能夠透明化而且正確同時也能夠有系統的推動營養教育"},{"start":2826.312,"end":2853.613,"text":"建立健康的飲食文化那同時來配合相關的法令比如說食農教育法、學校衛生法、食品安全衛生管理法等等的共同來進行跨部會的合作多面向的來增進人民的健康那我們期待委員給予支持我們當然是期待說說這個會期我們就能夠完成這個法律的立法謝謝大家敬請指教我們非常謝謝卓次長這麼精闢重點的一個"},{"start":2855.143,"end":2883.433,"text":"報告讓我們更清楚我們這個法的意義跟它的重要性我想這個法是所要營養跟健康飲食這是每一個人從還沒有出生這應該要注意到最後即使末期的時候也要怎麼樣適當的營養什麼都是維繫我們生命品質那很重要的一件事情所以這是全民的事情大家一起來參與"},{"start":2885.385,"end":2893.889,"text":"來推動。特別感謝我們州市長的說明。有關於本次會議各項諮問之下,我們已經列入紀錄刊登公報。"},{"start":2913.422,"end":2926.425,"text":"議事有沒有意見?沒有,我們就確定。現在請先讀提案條文內容及請願文書案由,若有修正動議請一邊先讀。這個大概要40分鐘,請開始先讀。"},{"start":2939.181,"end":2954.369,"text":"行政院函請審議委員劉建國等18人委員吳玉琴等16人台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬具營養及健康飲食促進法草案案。委員蘇巧慧等23人擬具國民營養及健康飲食促進草案法。"},{"start":2955.069,"end":2984.027,"text":"促進法草案案。委員林維周等17人委員楊瓊英等17人分別擬具營養及健康飲食促進法草案案。委員張玉梅等17人委員邱太元等19人分別擬具國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案案。委員陳敬明等18人委員林淑芬等19人委員陳培宇等16人委員莊敬成等21人時代力量黨團分別擬具營養及健康飲食促進法草案案。"},{"start":2985.157,"end":2998.625,"text":"行政院提案明稱營養及健康飲食促進法委員劉建國等18人提案委員吳玉琴等16人提案民眾黨黨團提案委員林惟洲等17人提案委員楊瓊英等17人提案委員陳敬敏等18人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案委員陳培宇等16人提案委員莊俊成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案明稱營養及健康飲食促進法委員蘇巧慧等23人提案委員邱太元等19人提案委員張玉美等17人提案"},{"start":3014.614,"end":3027.883,"text":"名稱國民營養及健康飲食促進法行政院提案第一章總則委員及黨團提案第13案第一章均為總則行政院提案第一條為建構健康飲食支持環境"},{"start":3054.856,"end":3064.345,"text":"現在補充處理一下,我們現在先進行請願文書69案之審查,請問貴委員針對請願文書等69案是否照擬請決議通過?先宣讀才講那個。這樣巧慧要不要再稍等一下嗎?"},{"start":3079.883,"end":3083.305,"text":"五分鐘五分鐘五分鐘五分鐘五分鐘五分鐘五分鐘"},{"start":3108.143,"end":3116.869,"text":"行政院提案第一條為建構健康飲食支持環境提升人民營養及健康飲食智能增進人民健康特制定本法委員劉建國等18人提案與院板同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第一條為建立人民營養觀念培養均衡飲食習慣建構全民健康之飲食支持性環境增進全民健康特制定本法台灣民眾黨黨團提案第一條"},{"start":3132.919,"end":3142.127,"text":"為提升國民營養及健康飲食智能培養國民健康飲食習慣建構全民健康之飲食支持性環境增進國民健康促進社會與經濟永續發展特制定本法委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第一條為提升國民營養及健康飲食智能建構國民營養及健康飲食之支持環境促進飲食產業健全發展增進國民健康特制定本法"},{"start":3157.239,"end":3170.627,"text":"委員林維周等17人提案第一條為建構國民健康飲食支持環境提升國民營養及健康飲食智能增進國民健康特制定本法委員楊松英等17人提案第一條為建立正確飲食習慣建構健康飲食支持環境提升國民營養及健康飲食智能增進國民健康特制定本法"},{"start":3177.131,"end":3203.912,"text":"委員張玉美等17人提案第一條為建立國民正確飲食觀念養成均衡飲食習慣改善國民營養增進國民健康特制定本法委員邱太元等19人提案第一條為提升國民營養及健康飲食智能建構國民營養及健康飲食之支持環境增進國民健康特制定本法委員陳敬明等18人提案第一條為促進人民身心理健康建構健康飲食支持環境"},{"start":3206.926,"end":3207.467,"text":"把第一條唸完"},{"start":3214.207,"end":3227.837,"text":"普及營養觀念與健康飲食習慣特制定本法委員林淑芬等19人提案第一條為建立國民營養觀念及均衡飲食習慣建構國民健康之飲食支持性環境增進國民健康特制定本法委員陳培宇等16人提案第一條為提升國民營養及健康飲食智能培養國民健康飲食習慣建構國民健康之飲食支持性環境增進國民健康特制定本法第一條委員莊敬成等21人提案於第二句後面增列"},{"start":3244.427,"end":3249.549,"text":"鬥號建立均衡飲食習慣其餘與院本同時代力量黨團提案與院本同。"},{"start":3259.065,"end":3270.658,"text":"宣讀請願文書69案案由衛生福利部36案一、台灣私立醫療院所協會為醫療法部分關於醫療社團法人修正案修法建議一事建請審慎參酌案二、台灣私立醫療院所協會與五家醫事團體連署"},{"start":3276.284,"end":3281.329,"text":"連述提出勞動基準法部分條文之修正建議建請審慎參酌案。三、台灣電子煙產業發展協會籌備處為建請將煙害防治法修正草案有關電子物化器之主管機關由衛生福利部調整為經濟部案。"},{"start":3293.021,"end":3320.357,"text":"四、台灣微補衛檢附電子物化器電子液體規範專章美國等政府最新證據進請衛生福利部國民健康署食品藥物管理署及本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會修法參考案。五、台灣煙草檢害協會為有關制定電子煙產品法律建請召開社會福利及衛生環境委員會財政委員會經濟委員會聯席會議案。六、王育陽均未落實管理無煙代用品"},{"start":3320.737,"end":3347.273,"text":"建請修正煙害防治法案。七、王育洋軍檢送煙害防治法部分條文修正草案建議案。八、台灣聚煙聯盟為救煙害防治法修正草案提出建言案。八、張正輝軍等為長期照顧服務法無明文規定中央主管機關可指定服務站建請修正長期照顧服務法第三條第六款以解決問題案。"},{"start":3348.494,"end":3375.083,"text":"十、中華民國全國工業總會委建請本月社會福利及衛生環境委員會近期食品安全衛生管理法相關修法提案以加強與業界溝通與評估,不宜匆促通過案。十一、謝玲玉均為虐童事件平凡建請加重兒童福利法之刑責案。十二、李兆坤均為保持特殊教育學校身心障礙學生五專前三年學生之權益建請修正兒童及少年福利與權益保障法"},{"start":3376.263,"end":3395.172,"text":"第34、37、47及73條條文案。 13、萬必須國際法律事務所為虐童事件頻繁,受害者與日俱增,建請修正兒少相關法案案。 14、台灣研發型生技新藥發展協會為強化我國再生醫療生技發展及國際競爭力,請加速再生醫療製劑管理條例立法案。"},{"start":3399.034,"end":3411.904,"text":"15、台灣研發型生技新藥發展協會未建起再生醫療制劑管理條例加速立法案。16、中華民國藥事品質改革協會未建議修正再生醫療法第9條規定案。17、社團法人台灣臨床藥學會等未建議修正再生醫療法第5條、第9條規定及再生醫療制劑條例第6條規定案。"},{"start":3422.111,"end":3430.097,"text":"18、社團法人、台灣臨床藥學會等為聲明全力支持衛生福利部針對行政院版再生醫療法草案第九條之建議修正條文案。19、中華民國護理師護士公會全國聯合會為使公共衛生施法更真完善並保障醫護人員權益減送修法建議案。20及21案為屏東縣崁嶺鄉民代表會及屏東縣新園鄉民代表會分別為因疫情狀況考慮建請增修"},{"start":3451.07,"end":3466.771,"text":"防疫特別條例將各級民代出國考察旅費可複選為國內研究旅費使用案。二十二、林家祺軍等為維護人性尊嚴及重症死亡之自主權懲請推動主動安樂死之法案案。二十三、"},{"start":3468.413,"end":3481.859,"text":"吳庭營軍為推動安樂死相關條款,曾請將《尊嚴善終法》列為本會期優先處理之重大社福和人權法案案。二、四、高耗基軍為保障國民有合法和平多元之臨終選擇。"},{"start":3486.833,"end":3515.151,"text":"檢成生命臨終法草案並建請三年內完成立法案。二五、高浩基軍再就生命臨終法草案提出建言案。二六、高浩基軍未推動生命臨終法草案案。二七、陳玉滿軍未請警訴通過安樂死法案案。二八、蘇豐川軍未請警訴通過安樂死法案案。二九、趙文景軍未建議修正安寧緩和醫療條例第七條、第十條及第十一條條文案。"},{"start":3516.332,"end":3525.661,"text":"三十、郭榮達軍為曾請警訴修正老農津貼有關於民資請領條件適度放寬勞保年資及漁會甲類會員年資中斷之時間案。三一、向智華軍為一次領取勞保年金給付逾50萬元者不能再參加國民年金保險。"},{"start":3535.029,"end":3551.065,"text":"不能保障人民老年生活懲請修法案。三、二、社團法人台灣數位女力聯盟張凱強軍為因應性私密引向犯罪防治作業之急需提出性侵害犯罪防治法修正建議案。三、三、王燕含軍等"},{"start":3552.746,"end":3580.835,"text":"為建議修正性騷擾防治法及性別平等工作法部分條文案。三、四、李秉宏君為救身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案提出建言案。三、五、中華民國中醫師檢定及格應考權促進會為建議修正醫師法條文案。三、六、張秀華君為請緊述通過委員王洪維及高嘉瑜等分別擬具醫師法第四條之一條文修正草案案。勞動部二十二案。"},{"start":3581.495,"end":3588.92,"text":"一、全國產業總工會為確保移轉民營事業單位資深員工年金權益,建請研議修訂《勞工保險條例》第74條之二新增年金勤領條件,得並繼公保年資之規定案。二、蘇貞廣軍為年金改革違背憲法平等原則,請退回勞工保險金條例修正草案。"},{"start":3603.729,"end":3614.962,"text":"並促政府比照軍公教年金緊速改革案。三、蘇貞廣軍未請退回勞工年金保險條例修正案勞工年金改革比照刪減年金給付額修法案。"},{"start":3617.085,"end":3642.411,"text":"四至六案為書徵廣軍未請退回勞保條例部分條文修正草案陳情案。七、楊蕙玲軍未建請非失能及未達失能七級標準之及重度和重度之身心障礙勞工保險老年給付,得比照公務人員身心障礙退休年齡可於55歲申請退休案。八、楊蕙玲軍未有關非失能及重度和重度之身心障礙勞工"},{"start":3643.431,"end":3653.235,"text":"比較公務人員身心障礙退休年齡可於55歲申請退休事債澄清案。九、李兆坤軍為建請本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會未來再審查勞工保險條例與優生保健法時將條文中貨幣單位由營養修正為新台幣案。"},{"start":3662.139,"end":3668.164,"text":"十、中華民國全國工業總會為該會等八大工商團體強烈反對廢除勞工退休金條例資遣費六個月上限之修法請願文書二份案。十一、中華民國全國工業總會為避免台灣經濟產業受到傷害本會等七個工商團體一致反對有關違反工時或勞基法相關規定科以行則或加倍罰還之提案請願文書二份案。"},{"start":3689.643,"end":3713.5,"text":"十二、蘇子軒君等為訴求本院為社會福利及衛生環境委員會應對勞動部作出堅韌老師一體適用勞基法決議勞動部應本與勞動主管機關專業立即讓堅韌老師一體適用勞基法案。十三、台灣區私資工會同業工會等為建請政府修訂勞基法一例一修部分條款以一例促進勞資和諧案。"},{"start":3714.921,"end":3743.791,"text":"十四、中華民國全國商業總會第10屆第一次禮監事聯席會議記錄決議事項為建請政府緊速修正勞動基準法就一例一休提出修法條文進行採納辦理案。十五、廖駕南軍為建請修正勞動基準法將第83條刪除勞資會議案。十六、黃德輝軍為建請修正工會法案。十七、賴文正軍為建請修法女性勞工產假和流產假延長天數案。"},{"start":3745.011,"end":3749.933,"text":"18、中華民國全國工業總會針對性別工作平等法修正草案之修法建議請願文書二份案。19、唐玉琴君等為教師外勞遭廢聘遣返至受害人無法求償,曾請修法增列外勞每月薪水提撥編列車禍賠償基金案。20、全國代理及代課教師產業工會為建議修正就業服務法第五條及第67條條文案。"},{"start":3771.401,"end":3800.647,"text":"二、一、張凱祥君為建議修正就業服務法第五條及第67條條文案。二、二、張凱祥君為建議修正勞資爭議處理法第54條規定案。環境部十一案。台灣省環境工程技師工會為簡頌該會辦理美澳日台環評制度論壇會議資料供政府部門修訂環評法制時參考案。二、二、王建平君王建平君為反對行政院院會日前通過之空氣污染防治法草案"},{"start":3801.067,"end":3830.494,"text":"建請撤回並回復原條文案。三、劉子瑞軍為抗議空氣污染防治法修正草案修惡違憲侵犯二型乘機車與10年以上燃油車路權特提出退回空污法修正草案等三項訴求案。四、林俊成軍為請重視六輕公害污染有毒致癌物問題現行公害糾紛處理法無法解決公害案件建議制定公害被害人保護法之特別法案。"},{"start":3830.954,"end":3847.204,"text":"五、林俊成均為在建請制定公害被害者保護法之特別法案。六、林俊成均為建請制定公害被害者保護法之專責特別法案。七、張大光均為建請修正廢棄物清理法以達到無廢"},{"start":3848.585,"end":3863.762,"text":"零氣低碳高百分比回收再利用案。八、張大光軍衛建議修正廢棄物清理法案。九、張大光軍衛就廢棄物清理法第15條及第21條條文提出修正意見案。"},{"start":3865.498,"end":3886.96,"text":"十、台灣市廢棄物清除處理商業同業工會為高雄市政府以行政命令限制跨區處理或清運一般事業廢棄物、抵觸廢棄物清理法等建請修法案。十一、張大光軍為建請將行政院所提溫室氣體減量管理法修正案名稱修正為氣候變遷因應法案。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":3895.59,"end":3906.025,"text":"請問各位委員對於針對請願文書等69案事額,照擬請決議通過,有沒有意見?沒有意見我們就通過。"},{"start":3907.335,"end":3931.315,"text":"做以下捷議院會交付審查台灣施立醫療院所協會請願文書等69案,以分別由各主管機關查入在案。經審查結果不成為議案,依立法院之前行使法第67條第二項規定,虛名理由及處理經過,送由程序委員會報請院會審查,並通知請願人。"},{"start":3937.103,"end":3948.018,"text":"好,請問文書六九案已處理完畢,現場非法案相關內容可請先行離席。現在繼續先讀提案內容及修正動議,請先讀。"},{"start":3949.215,"end":3972.766,"text":"行政院提案第二條本法用詞定義如下一、營養指人體利用食物中所含之營養成分進行新陳代謝調節生理機能及生長發育過程之一種生理狀態二、營養成分指食物中可作為人體新陳代謝所需熱量促進生長發育及調節生理機能之營養素包括糖類、脂質、蛋白質、維生素礦物質及其他微量元素"},{"start":3973.306,"end":3995.846,"text":"三、營養不良指不健康飲食所造成人體中之營養素缺乏、過多或不均衡、致體重過輕或過重肥胖、慢性病或其他健康問題之狀態。四、健康飲食指足以提供個人適當熱量及均衡營養且以新鮮在地多樣化之食材為原則之飲食。五、營養調查指以各種調查方法收集、分析人民飲食變遷"},{"start":3997.788,"end":4016.456,"text":"營養狀況及其他相關資料,作為定定人民營養需求基準及相關政策之依據﹐六、營養及飲食建議攝取基準,指依據營養調查或相關研究、國家健康政策、人民飲食習慣、性別、年齡、體重及其他相關因素,以科學實證方法鎖定一般人民飲食及營養素攝取量之基準。"},{"start":4017.096,"end":4020.739,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案、台灣民眾黨黨團提案、委員林維周等17人提案、委員張俊成等21人提案、時代力量黨團提案第二條與院版同。委員吳玉琴等16人提案修正第二款調解為調解其與院版同。委員蘇強慧等23人提案第二條第五款。"},{"start":4035.008,"end":4056.417,"text":"五、營養及飲食調查只以各種調查方法收集、分析國民飲食變遷、營養狀況及其他相關資料作為定定國民營養及飲食攝取基準及相關政策之依據。第六款六、營養及飲食建議攝取基準只依據營養及飲食調查或相關研究國家政策、國民飲食習慣、性別、年齡、體重或其他相關因素以科學實證方法"},{"start":4056.997,"end":4071.218,"text":"所定一般人民飲食及營養素攝取量子基準其餘與院板同委員楊瓊英等17人提案委員張玉美等17人提案第二條修正第五款第六款人民為國民二制其餘與院板同委員邱太元等19人提案第二條第五款五"},{"start":4072.619,"end":4101.091,"text":"營養及飲食調查只以各種調查方法收集分析國民飲食變遷、營養狀況及其他相關資料作為定定國民營養及飲食攝取基準及相關政策之依據。第六款六、營養及飲食建議攝取基準只依據營養及飲食調查或相關研究國家政策、國民飲食習慣、性別、年齡、體重或其他相關因素以科學實證方法鎖定一般人民飲食及營養素攝取量之基準。其餘院板同委員陳敬明等18人提案第二條刪除院板第一款、第二款"},{"start":4101.491,"end":4120.511,"text":"致第六款一列為第一款致第五款其餘院版同委員林淑芬等19人提案第二條修正第二款三節為調解二致其餘院版同委員陳培宇等16人提案第二條修正第五款用詞為營養及飲食調查修正第五款第六款人名為國民二致其餘院版同"},{"start":4121.071,"end":4145.336,"text":"行政院提案第三條本法所稱主管機關在中央為衛生福利部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府本法鎖定10項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理委員劉建國等18人提案委員吳玉琴等16人提案民眾黨黨團提案委員林維周等17人提案委員陳敬明等18人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案第三條修正第一項後段文字為在地方為直轄市縣市政府"},{"start":4146.556,"end":4174.356,"text":"以下簡稱地方主管機關其餘與院版同委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第三條刪除第二項其餘與院版同委員楊瓊英等17人提案第三條本法所稱主管機關在中央為衛生福利部在地方為直轄市政府縣市政府以下簡稱地方主管機關委員張玉美等17人提案委員邱太元等19人提案委員陳培宇等16人提案委員張敬成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案第三條與院版同行政院提案第四條中央主管"},{"start":4175.056,"end":4193.849,"text":"中央主管機關掌理下列營養及健康飲食促進事項一、戰色與方案之規劃訂定及宣導二、直轄市縣市主管機關執行之督導及協調三、講注及評鑑之規劃四、人員訓練之規劃及推動五、國際交流合作六、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項委員劉建國等18人提案第4條"},{"start":4194.509,"end":4205.853,"text":"第二款為二、地方主管機關執行之督導及協調其與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第四條中央主管機關應推動下列營養及健康飲食促進工作一、執行國民營養調查與監測二、訂定國民飲食營養基準三、針對特殊需求之族群提供營養教育諮詢及照護服務之規劃四、政策與方案之規劃訂定及宣導五、地方主管機關執行之督導協調及考評"},{"start":4220.498,"end":4239.458,"text":"六、講注及評鑑之規劃。七、人員訓練之規劃及推動。八、國際交流合作。九、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項。民眾黨黨團提案第四條,中央主管機關之全責事項如下。一、全國性國民營養工作之政策、法規與方案之規劃訂定、宣導及督導。二、地方主管機關執行國民營養工作之監督、協調及考評。"},{"start":4242.481,"end":4249.104,"text":"三、中央主管機關國民營養工作經費之編列與執行四、國民營養工作講座及評鑑之規劃五、國民營養工作專業人員訓練之規劃與推動"},{"start":4254.249,"end":4267.634,"text":"六、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項。委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第4條。中央主管機關執行本法所定事項全責劃分如下。一、全國營養及健康飲食政策與方案之規劃訂定與宣導。二、執行國民營養及飲食調查並建置食品營養成分資料庫。三、訂定國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準。"},{"start":4274.176,"end":4292.998,"text":"四、地方主管機關執行之督導協調五、講座及評鑒之規劃六、人員訓練之規劃及推動七、國際交流合作八、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項委員林維周等17人提案第四條第二款如下二、地方主管機關執行之督導及協調第六款如下辦理國民營養相關研究"},{"start":4294.62,"end":4311.857,"text":"院板第六款已列為第七款,其餘院板同。委員楊瓊英等17人提案第四條,中央主管機關掌理消費營養及健康飲食促進事項。一、訂定國民飲食及營養建議攝取基準。二、政策與方案之規劃訂定宣導及督導。三、地方主管機關執行之督導協調及考評。"},{"start":4313.138,"end":4321.38,"text":"四、講述及評鑑之規劃五、人員訓練之規劃及推動六、國際交流合作七、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項委員張玉美等17人提案委員莊敬成等21人提案第4條與院版同委員邱太元等19人提案第4條中央主管機關執行本法所定事項全責劃分如下一、全國營養及健康飲食政策法案與方案之規劃訂定與宣導二、執行國民營養及飲食調查並建置食品營養成分資料庫三、訂定國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準"},{"start":4341.684,"end":4360.357,"text":"四、地方主管機關執行之督導協調五、講注之規劃六、人員訓練之規劃及推動七、國際交流合作八、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項委員陳敬明等18人提案第4條中央主管機關辦理本法以下事項一、政策與方案之規劃訂定及宣導二、地方主管機關執行之督導及協調"},{"start":4361.218,"end":4380.659,"text":"三、講述及評鑑之規劃。四、專業人員訓練之規劃及推動。五、營養及飲食建議攝取基準之訂定健康飲食或營養相關重大事件處理之建議。六、國際交流合作。七、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項。委員林淑芬等19人提案第4條。中央主管機關應執行下列營養及健康飲食促進工作。一、執行國民營養及"},{"start":4382.561,"end":4409.236,"text":"執行國民飲食及營養調查與監測二、制定國民飲食營養基準三、針對特殊需要之族群提供營養教育諮詢與照護等服務之規劃四、政策與方案之規劃訂定及宣導五、地方主管機關執行之督導協調及考評六、講述其評鑑之規劃人員訓練之規劃及推動六、國際交流合作七、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項委員陳培宇等16人提案時代力量黨團提案第四條"},{"start":4409.836,"end":4431.928,"text":"中央主管機關掌理下列營養及健康飲食促進事項一、政策方案與法令之規劃訂定及宣導二、規劃辦理國民營養及飲食調查三、建置食品營養成分資料庫四、訂定營養及飲食建議攝取基準五、規劃提供特殊需要族群營養教育諮詢及照護服務六、直轄市縣市主管機關執行之督導及協調七、講座及評鑑之規劃八、人員訓練之規劃及推動九、國際交流合作十、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項"},{"start":4439.622,"end":4459.827,"text":"行政院提案第5條。直轄市縣市主管機關掌理狹內下列營養及健康飲食促進事項。一、實施方案計畫之規劃訂定及執行。二、講注與評鑑計畫之訂定及執行。三、人員訓練之訂定及執行。四、教育宣導轉介服務與資源網絡連結之規劃及提供。五、其他應由直轄市縣市主管機關辦理之事項。"},{"start":4460.507,"end":4475.516,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案。委員林維周等17人提案。委員楊瓊英等17人提案。第五條修正序文及第五條之直轄市縣市為地方修正第四款之與為及區域院版同。委員吳玉琴等16人提案。委員林淑芬等19人提案。第五條"},{"start":4476.076,"end":4493.005,"text":"修正序文及第五款之直轄市縣市為地方修正第四款為地方性教育宣導轉介服務及資源網絡連結之規劃及提供其餘願版同民眾黨黨團提案第五條地方主管機關之權責事項如下一依據中央主管機關所訂定全國"},{"start":4494.085,"end":4517.27,"text":"依據中央主管機關所定全國性國民營養工作之政策法規與方案辦理地方國民營養細部策略營養教育營養改善方案之規劃訂定宣導執行及督導二、地方國民營養改善經費之編列及轄區國民營養改善計畫之整合執行及管控三、地方國民營養工作補助與講注之規劃及執行四、地方國民營養工作專業人員訓練之規劃及執行五、中央主管機關指示或委辦之國民營養工作"},{"start":4522.831,"end":4530.315,"text":"六、地方各目的事業主管機關經費編列之督導及執行國民營養工作之協調。七、其他應由地方主管機關辦理之事項。委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第5條。地方主管機關執行本法所定事項。權責劃分如下。一、營養及健康飲食實施方案規劃"},{"start":4539.159,"end":4545.786,"text":"計劃之規劃訂定及執行。二、講註及評鑑計劃之訂定及執行。三、連元訓練之訂定及執行。四、教育宣導轉介服務及資源網絡連結之規劃與提供。五、其他應由地方主管機關辦理之事項。委員張玉美等17人提案。委員張敬成等21人提案第5條與院版同。"},{"start":4558.4,"end":4571.703,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第五條地方主管機關執行本法所定事項全責劃分如下一、營養及健康飲食實施方案計劃之規劃訂定及執行二、講述之訂定及執行三、人員訓練之訂定及執行四、教育宣導轉介服務及資源網絡連結之規劃與提供五、其他應由地方主管機關辦理之事項委員陳敬明等18人提案第五條"},{"start":4582.085,"end":4606.384,"text":"地方主管機關之全責範圍如下。一、實施方案計畫之規劃訂定及執行。二、講座與評鑒計畫之訂定及執行。三、專業人員訓練之訂定及執行。四、教育宣導轉介服務及資源網絡連結之規劃及提供。五、其他應由地方主管機關辦理之事項。委員陳培宇等16人提案時代力量黨團提案。五、增訂第二款。二、執行中央主管機關規劃或委辦之營養及健康飲食促進事項。"},{"start":4609.566,"end":4635.929,"text":"院板第二款至第五款依序第一為第三款至第六款其餘院板同委員吳玉琴等16人提案委員林淑芬等19人時代力量黨團提案第六條主管機關及各目的事業主管機關應逐年編列預算辦理有關營養及健康飲食之促進及衛教宣導工作委員莊敬成等21人提案第八條主管機關及目的事業主管機關應寬列預算推行營養及健康飲食促進事項"},{"start":4637.677,"end":4665.948,"text":"行政院提案第6條直轄市縣市主管機關得指定營養相關專業單位或人員與社區協助辦理營養及健康飲食促進之相關工作委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案第6條修正守據之直轄市縣市為地方其餘與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案第7條地方主管機關應指定營養相關專業單位或人員與社區協助辦理營養及健康飲食促進之相關工作"},{"start":4666.408,"end":4669.951,"text":"民進黨黨團提案第6條各級主管機關應設營養專責單位或專任人員辦理國民營養及健康飲食促進之工作委員蘇巧惠等23人委員邱太元等19人提案第6條各級主管機關應設營養及健康飲食專責單位或專任人員"},{"start":4684.222,"end":4691.026,"text":"辦理國民營養及健康飲食促進之工作委員楊中英等17人提案第6條地方主管機關得指定營養相關專業單位或人員與社區協助辦理委員張玉美等17人提案第6條直轄市縣市主管機關得指定營養師與社區協助辦理營養及健康飲食促進之相關工作"},{"start":4702.273,"end":4706.036,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第6條地方主管機關得導入營養或健康專業單位人員與社區協助辦理營養及健康飲食促進相關工作委員陳培淤等16人提案第6條中央及地方主管機關應涉專責單位或專責人員辦理本法所定獎禮事項之下是"},{"start":4721.366,"end":4738.022,"text":"直轄市縣市主管機關得指定營養學或營養醫學專業人員、團體或機構協助於社區辦理營養及健康飲食促進相關工作。主管機關及目的事業主管機關應每年編列預算辦理營養及健康飲食促進教育及宣導工作。"},{"start":4739.184,"end":4765.45,"text":"委員莊敬成等21人十大力量黨團提案與院版第六條同行政院提案第七條中央主管機關應邀及民間團體專家學者食品業者及農產業者代表召開營養諮詢會諮詢營養與健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項其中任意性別人數不得少於總數三分之一委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案第七條修正倒數第二具為"},{"start":4765.97,"end":4780.035,"text":"其中任意性別委員之人數其餘與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第8條修正倒數第二具為其中任意性別委員之人數其餘與院版第7條同民眾黨黨團提案第7條中央主管機關應每年召開營養諮詢會其組成應邀及營養專家學者"},{"start":4783.596,"end":4797.706,"text":"民間團體及食品業者等其中單一性別不得少於三分之一營養諮詢會之組織及運作方式由中央主管機關定之。前項營養諮詢會任務如下一、國民營養及健康飲食計畫之制定與修訂二、國民營養政策建議及諮詢三、評估國民營養政策執行成效四、審議國民營養調查監測及研究計畫五、各種營養與飲食基準之審議六、營養重大案件處理之建議七、其他有關國民營養工作事項"},{"start":4813.476,"end":4839.267,"text":"前向國民營養及健康飲食計畫應於本法施行後二年內公佈實施至少每十年檢討修正一次。制定及修訂過程應由民眾參與機制。此計畫應遵循行政院永續發展目標並設定達成相關指標之策略與行動方案。委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第7條中央主管機關應邀集民間團體專家學者、食品業者、農產品業者及消費者代表。召開"},{"start":4842.949,"end":4856.038,"text":"營養諮詢會、諮詢營養及健康飲食促進政策、調查、研究及其他有關事項其中任意性別委員之人數不得少於總數三分之一。前項營養諮詢會每年應至少召開一次。營養諮詢會之設置重點由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":4858.038,"end":4874.983,"text":"委員楊崇英等17人提案第7條修正第一句為中央主管機關因美、基因至少邀集民間團體並修正倒數第二句為其中單一性別委員人數其餘願反同。委員張玉美等17人提案第7條守具巨莫增淚營養師刪除頓耗食品業者及農產業者。"},{"start":4879.364,"end":4900.452,"text":"其餘院本同委員邱太元等19人提案第7條中央主管機關邀集民間團體醫師專家學者食品業者農產品業者及消費者代表召開營養諮詢會諮詢營養及健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項其中任意性別委員之人數不得少於總數三分之一前項營養諮詢會每年應至少召開一次營養諮詢會之設置重點由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":4907.094,"end":4915.521,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第七條中央主管機關應邀及民間團體專家學者食品業者及農林漁牧業者代表召開營養政策諮詢會諮詢營養與健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項其中任意性別委員之人數不得少於總數三分之一委員林淑芬等19人提案第八條中央主管機關應邀及民間團體專家學者食品業者及農產品業者代表及消費者代表召開營養諮詢會"},{"start":4937.139,"end":4955.417,"text":"諮詢營養與健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項其中任意性別委員之人數不得少於總數三分之一前項營養諮詢會每年應至少召開一次營養諮詢會之設置重點由中央主管機關定之委員陳培宇等16人提案第7條中央主管機關要求下列人員召開營養諮詢會"},{"start":4958.1,"end":4973.499,"text":"諮詢營養與健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項一、營養學、公共衛生、醫學、護理及健康照護相關專業之專家、學者、機構、團體二、食品餐飲團善及農水序產業者代表。三、"},{"start":4975.942,"end":5000.445,"text":"消費者代表兒童及少年代表營養諮詢會委員任意性別人數不得少於總數三分之一。前項第一款人數合計不得少於總數二分之一。營養諮詢會每年應至少召開一次。其委員臨聘任期組織及運作辦法由中央主管機關定資。委員莊敬誠等21人提案第7條。中央主管機關邀集民間業、團體、專家、學者、食品或農產"},{"start":5001.706,"end":5020.538,"text":"業者代表及各目的事業主管機關代表召開營養諮詢會諮詢營養與健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項並提出建議其成員任意性別人數不得少於總數三分之一時代力量黨團提案第8條與院版第7條同行政院提案第二章確保健康飲食"},{"start":5021.418,"end":5026.361,"text":"委員劉建國等18人擬具委員吳玉琴等16人擬具民眾黨黨團擬具委員林維周等17人擬具委員楊崇英等17人擬具委員林淑芬等19人擬具委員莊敬成等21人擬具時代力量黨團擬具第二章確保健康飲食委員蘇巧慧等23人委員張玉美等17人擬具第二章國民營養之確保"},{"start":5042.009,"end":5055.905,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第二章確保營養與健康飲食委員陳敬明等18人提案第二章營養系統建置與確保健康飲食委員陳培育等16人提案第二章確保飲食營養及健康"},{"start":5057.543,"end":5070.816,"text":"行政院提案第8條中央主管機關應定其辦理營養調查研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫委員劉建國等18人提案第8條增訂第二項為前項之調查研究中央得委託機關團體學術機構專家學者辦理其與院版同"},{"start":5074.46,"end":5081.286,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案第九條中央主管機關應建立全國營養調查及健康監測系統定期收集國民營養狀況資料並監測營養異常情形中央主管機關應依國民營養調查及健康監測結果向營養諮詢會提交國民營養調查與健康監測報告並應將報告上網公開供民眾查閱第一項調查之對象項目其成"},{"start":5098.48,"end":5112.588,"text":"實施調查之方法委託實施調查之事宜、監測結果之發布程序及其他實施事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。第十條,中央主管機關應建立食品營養成分資料庫且定期發布更新資訊。前項食品營養成分資料庫相關規範由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":5117.17,"end":5121.995,"text":"民眾黨黨團提案第8條,中央主管機關應建立國民營養調查及健康監測系統,並期收集國民營養狀況資料,並監測營養異常情形。中央主管機關應每年因應國民營養調查及健康監測結果,向營養諮詢會提交報告,並應將報告上網公開,供民眾查閱。"},{"start":5138.994,"end":5153.17,"text":"第一項調查之對象項目其成實施調查之方法委託實施調查之事宜監測結果之發布程序及其他實施事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之應包含第11條規定之國民、宗教信仰、區域局書、"},{"start":5153.911,"end":5174.783,"text":"食等文化差異之基礎資訊。第九條,中央主管機關應定期辦理國民營養與飲食健康相關研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫。前項食物營養成分資料庫相關規範由中央主管機關定資。委員蘇曉慧等23人提案。第八條,中央主管機關應定期辦理國民營養及飲食調查、監測並研究國民營養及飲食狀況資料。前項調查、監測及研究,中央主管機關得委託政府機關購專業團體"},{"start":5183.187,"end":5206.257,"text":"學術機構團體中央主管機關每三年因依國民營養及飲食調查結果向營養諮詢會提交國民營養及飲食調查報告並公布之第一項國民營養及飲食調查之實施辦法由中央主管機關定之第九條中央主管機關應建制食品營養成分資料庫定期發布更新資訊前項食品營養成分資料庫相關規範由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":5210.259,"end":5227.66,"text":"委員林維周等17人提案第8條第二項為前項之調查研究之項目對象其成實施之調查方法及其他實施事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之第三項為第一項規定事項由中央主管機關於每年定期提出報告其與院本同"},{"start":5231.698,"end":5244.609,"text":"委員楊秋英等17人提案第8條中央主管機關應定期辦理營養調查監測研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫前項調查監測及研究中央主管機關得委任或委託機關構或專業機構團體辦理中央主管機關依前項國民營養調查及監測結果"},{"start":5250.094,"end":5265.101,"text":"因每五年公布國民營養報告委員張玉美等17人提案第8條中央主管機關應建立國民營養調查及監測系統辦理營養調查與研究前向調查以全國人口群或特定人口群為基礎收集國民營養指標資訊並監測營養異常狀況前向調查及監測由中央主管機關"},{"start":5270.723,"end":5287.433,"text":"前項調查及監測中央主管機關得委任或委託機關構或專業機構團體辦理第10條中央主管機關應會同中央農業主管機關建立國內食品營養成分資料庫中央農業主管機關應會同中央主管機關評估我國糧食生產對國民營養之影響"},{"start":5289.634,"end":5295.04,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第8條,中央主管機關應建立國民營養調查及健康監測系統,定期收集國民營養及飲食狀況資料,並監測營養異常情形。中央主管機關每三年應依國民營養及飲食調查結果,向"},{"start":5306.832,"end":5322.381,"text":"營養諮詢會提交國民營養及飲食調查報告並公布之第一項調查之對象項目其成實施調查之方法委託實施調查之事宜監測結果之發布程序及其他實施事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。第九條中央主管機關應建制食品營養成分資料庫定期發布更新資訊。前項食品營養成分資料庫相關規範由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":5331.286,"end":5351.64,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第8條中央主管機關應定期辦理營養調查研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫並適當揭露前項之調查研究中央得委託機關團體學術機構專家學者辦理委員林淑芬等19人提案第9條中央主管機關應建立國民營養及飲食調查及健康監測系統定期蒐集國民營養狀況資料並監測營養異常情形主管機關每兩年應依國民營養及飲食調查與健康監測結果"},{"start":5361.307,"end":5382.713,"text":"向營養諮詢會提交國民營養及飲食調查與健康監測報告並應將報告上網公開供民眾查閱第三項與委員吳玉琴等16人提案同。第十條第八條第一項及第三項與委員等16人提案同。"},{"start":5384.164,"end":5389.27,"text":"中央主管機關每年一國民營養及飲食調查結果向營養諮詢會提交國民營養及飲食調查報告並將全文公布之。第九條,中央主管機關應建置食品營養成分資料庫並定期發布更新資訊。食品營養成分資料庫相關辦法由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":5402.106,"end":5418.486,"text":"中央主管機關應利用前條收集所得資料及第一項資料庫定期辦理國民營養相關研究委員莊進成等21人提案第9條中央主管機關應定期辦理營養調查研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫並為委託有關機關學校或營養健康相關團體為之"},{"start":5420.368,"end":5439.369,"text":"時代力量黨團提案第9條中央主管機關應定期辦理營養調查研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫並得委託有關機關學校或營養健康相關專業團體為之行政院提案第9條中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡懷孕及生產等擬定人民營養及飲食建議攝取基準經諮詢營養"},{"start":5442.552,"end":5462.901,"text":"諮詢會後公告之前項基準至少每5年檢討修正一次中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量人民宗教信仰區域及文化之差異提出飲食建議委員劉建國等18人提案第9條與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第11條中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡懷孕及生產等"},{"start":5463.901,"end":5487.329,"text":"擬定每日飲食指南、國民飲食指標、生命其營養建議及國人膳食營養素參考攝取量等人民營養及飲食建議攝取基準經諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之前項建議至少每5年檢討修正一次中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量人民宗教信仰區域及文化之差異提出飲食建議民眾黨黨團提案第11條"},{"start":5490.03,"end":5508.833,"text":"中央主管機關應分別依性別、年齡、懷孕及哺乳等擬定國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準經營養諮詢會後公告之前項基準至少每5年檢討修正一次中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量國民宗教信仰、區域及蔬食等文化之差異提出飲食建議"},{"start":5509.514,"end":5538.261,"text":"委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第10條中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡體重及慢性疾病現況懷孕及生產兒少成長災害救助等擬定國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準經營諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之前項基準至少每三年檢討修正一次中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量國民宗教信仰區域文化傳統與飲食習俗之差異提出飲食建議委員林維周等17人提案第9條"},{"start":5539.261,"end":5560.299,"text":"第二項每五年修正為每三年其與院版同委員楊瓊英等17人提案第九條人民修正為國民其與院版同委員張玉美等17人提案第九條中央主管機關每年因應國民營養調查及監測結果公布國民營養報告中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡懷孕及生產等擬定國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準經諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之"},{"start":5564.442,"end":5590.568,"text":"並至少每五年檢討修正一次。前項基準應就性別及各年齡層發展階段之差異據於考量包括國人膳食營養素參考攝取量、國民飲食指標、每日飲食指南及其他有關國民營養事項。中央主管機關應依第二項之基準考量國民宗教信仰、區域及文化之差異提出飲食建議。委員邱太元等19人提案第10條中央主管機關應分別依性別、年齡、體重"},{"start":5592.268,"end":5612.801,"text":"及慢性疾病現況、懷孕及生產、兒少成長等擬定國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準。經諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之前項基準至少每三年檢討修正一次。中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量國民宗教信仰、區域與文化傳統之差異,提出飲食建議。"},{"start":5613.641,"end":5630.963,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第9條,中央主管機關應分別依性別、年齡、懷孕及生產等擬定營養及飲食建議攝取基準。前項基準,至少每5年檢討修正一次。中央主管機關應依第一項之基準,並考量人民宗教信仰、區域及文化之差異,提出飲食建議。"},{"start":5631.664,"end":5642.91,"text":"委員林淑芬等19人提案第11條中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡懷孕及生產兒少成長等擬定每日飲食指南國民飲食指標生命其營養建議及國人膳食營養素"},{"start":5646.372,"end":5672.723,"text":"參考攝取量等國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準。經諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之前將建議至少每三年檢討修正一次中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量人民宗教信仰區域及文化之差異提出飲食建議委員陳培鈺等16人提案第10條中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡體重及慢性疾病現況懷孕生產哺乳及兒少成長等類型擬定營養及飲食建議攝取基準"},{"start":5674.625,"end":5689.082,"text":"經諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之前項基準至少每三年檢討修正一次中央儲管機關應依第一項之基準並考量國民宗教信仰區域與文化之差異提出飲食建議委員莊敬成等21人提案第10條"},{"start":5691.243,"end":5715.108,"text":"第二項為前項基準至少每四年檢討修正一次第三項為中央主管機關應依第一項之基準並考量人民宗教信仰區域族群及文化飲食差異習慣之差異提出飲食建議其與原版第九條同時代力量黨團提案第十條中央主管機關應分別依性別年齡體重及慢性疾病現況懷孕及生產等擬定人民營養及飲食建議攝取基準經諮詢營養諮詢會後公告之前項基準"},{"start":5719.649,"end":5741.854,"text":"至少每次年檢討修正一次中央主管機關因應地上之基準並考量人民宗教信仰區域及文化之差異提出飲食建議委員吳玉琴等16人委員林淑芬等19人提案第12條中央主管機關應依據國人極慢性營養相關疾病現況並考量國人飲食文化與食物供應體系以食證為基礎訂定臨床營養與疾病飲食指引"},{"start":5745.035,"end":5756.982,"text":"前項臨床營養與疾病飲食指引相關規範由中央主管機關定資委員陳敬明等18人提案第10條中央主管機關應依據國倫及慢性營養相關疾病現況以實證為基礎訂定臨床營養與疾病飲食指引前項指引中央主管機關得委託民間專業機構團體辦理委員陳培育等16人提案第11條中央主管機關應綜合考量國民及慢性營養相關疾病流行病學"},{"start":5773.19,"end":5791.4,"text":"國民飲食文化與飲食相關產業狀況依據實證研究訂定臨床營養與疾病飲食指引臨床營養與疾病飲食指引相關辦法由中央主管機關訂資。行政院提案第10條政府機關購予訂定社會救助相關計劃及辦理補助時應將計劃及補助對相次營養問題納入考量"},{"start":5794.481,"end":5823.42,"text":"改善營養不良所致之體重過輕過重肥胖慢性疾病或其他健康問題及提升飲食獲取之可敬信。政府機關構應鼓勵辦理食物及複製法人團體或民間機構於募集運用食物及複製物資或辦理其他救助計劃時將受證對向之營養問題納入考量。政府機關構得考量偏遠原住民族地區及離島地區之需要訂定營養改善計劃或飲食供應之補助計劃。"},{"start":5825.458,"end":5853.036,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案委員楊瓊英等17人提案第10條第二項第二具為團體或其他民間機構第三項第二具為原住民地原住民地區及離島地區之需要其與原版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第13條與原版第10條同民眾黨黨團提案第10條第二項首二具為政府機關構應支持協助辦理食物及複製法人團體或其他民間機構"},{"start":5854.916,"end":5874.355,"text":"刪除第三項其餘願反同委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第12條政府於訂定社會救助相關計劃及補助時應將計劃及補助對上次營養問題納入考量以改善營養不良及提升健康飲食之可及性政府應鼓勵辦理食物及複製法人團體或其他民間機構於募集運用物資或辦理其他"},{"start":5875.336,"end":5881.617,"text":"救助計劃時將受證對象之營養問題納入考量政府應考量偏遠及離島地區之需要訂立營養改善計劃或飲食供應之補助計劃第10條政府機關構於訂定社會救助相關計劃及辦理補助時應將計劃及補助對象之營養問題納入考量改善營養不良所致之體重過輕過重肥胖慢性病或其他健康問題及提升健康飲食獲取之可進行政府機關構應鼓勵辦理食物及福祉法人團體或其他民間機構"},{"start":5904.782,"end":5910.724,"text":"於勿及運用食物及副物資或辦理其他救助計劃時,將受證對象之營養問題納入考量。政府機關構得考量偏遠援助民地區及離島地區之需要,訂定營養改善計劃或飲食供應之補助計劃。委員張玉梅等17人提案第11條與院版第10條同。"},{"start":5923.647,"end":5940.933,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第11條政府於訂定社會救助相關計劃及補助時應將計劃及補助對象之營養問題納入考量以改善營養不良所致之健康問題及提升健康飲食政府應考量偏遠原住民地區及離島地區之需要訂定營養改善計劃或飲食供應之補助計劃委員陳敬明等18人提案第11條政府機關構於訂定社會補助相關計劃及辦理補助時得將計劃及補助對象之營養問題納入考量"},{"start":5952.037,"end":5954.58,"text":"以改善對象營養不良狀態政府機關構應鼓勵辦理食物及複製法人團體或其他民間機構於募集運用食物及複製物資或辦理其他救助計劃時將授證對象之營養問題納入考量政府機關構得考慮特別弱勢家庭高營養風險族群"},{"start":5972.028,"end":5986.368,"text":"偏鄉及離島族群及急慢性營養相關疾病患者之需要訂定營養改善計劃或飲食供應之補助計劃委員林淑芬等19人提案第13條政府機關構於訂定社會救助相關計劃及補助時應將計劃及補助對象之營養問題納入考量"},{"start":5989.011,"end":5998.039,"text":"以改善營養不良所致之體重過輕過重肥胖慢性病或其他健康問題及提升健康飲食獲取之可敬性政府機關構應考量偏遠原住民地區及離島地區之需要訂定營養改善計畫或飲食供應之補給補助計畫"},{"start":6006.627,"end":6023.831,"text":"委員陳佩玉等16人提案第12條與院版第10條同委員莊敬成等21人提案第11條與院版第10條同時代力量黨團提案第11條與院版第10條同委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第13條政府基於保障援助民族健康權益因應第8條國民營養及飲食調查或相關研究結果"},{"start":6027.212,"end":6044.492,"text":"並考量原住民族地區之特性,定定原住民族營養及健康飲食促進計畫。政府機關構定定前項計畫時,應會商行政院原住民族委員會委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第14條,政府於進行災害防救糧食物資儲備時,應參採國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準。"},{"start":6049.693,"end":6076.87,"text":"行政院提案第11條中央主管機關一第8條之營養調查研究結果發現人民缺乏特定營養素而有營養不良之餘時得提出營養強化建議鼓勵食品業者於食品中添加特定營養成分食品業者依前項建議於食品中添加特定營養成分應符合食品安全衛生管理法及其相關法規之規定委員劉建國等18人提案委員林惟洲等17人提案第11條中央主管機關一第8條之營養調查"},{"start":6079.383,"end":6102.912,"text":"研究結果發現人民缺乏特定營養素顯有危害健康之餘時的公告該特定營養成分添加於指定食品該指定食品之製造業者應依公告內容添加該特定營養成分輸入業者輸入該指定食品應添加該營養成分並檢附原產國之製造廠商或負責廠商出具之產品營養成分報告公主管機關查核"},{"start":6104.372,"end":6126.221,"text":"一、全項公告之特定營養成分及其所添加之食品均應符合食品安全衛生管理法及其相關法規之規定。委員吳玉琴等16人提案第14條中央主管機關一第9條之營養調查或相關研究結果發現人民缺乏特定營養素顯有危害健康之餘時得公告該特定營養成分添加於指定食品"},{"start":6127.241,"end":6151.411,"text":"該指定食品之製造業者應依公告內容添加該特定營養成分輸入業者輸入該指定食品應添加該營養成分並減負原產國之製造廠商或負責廠商出具之產品營養成分報告供主管機關查核依前項公告之特定營養成分及其所添加之食品均應符合食品安全衛生管理法及其相關法規之規定。民眾黨黨團提案第12條"},{"start":6153.132,"end":6173.369,"text":"眾院主管機關依第八條之營養調查研究結果發現人民缺乏特定營養素顯有危害健康之餘時得公告該特定營養成分添加於指定食品該指定食品之製造業者應依公告內容添加該特定營養成分輸入業者輸入該指定食品應添加該營養成分並減負原產國之製造廠商或負責廠商出具之產品營養成分報告供主管機關查核"},{"start":6180.194,"end":6199.346,"text":"依前項公告之特定營養成分及其所添加之食品均應符合食品安全衛生管理法及其相關法規則規定。委員楊崇英等17人提案第11條。委員邱太元等19人提案第12條。修正人名為國民其餘與委員劉建國等18人提案第11條同。"},{"start":6202.833,"end":6220.217,"text":"委員張玉美等17人提案第12條,修正人名為國民二字,其餘與院版第11條同。委員陳敬明等18人提案第12條,中央主管機關應建立高營養風險族群、偏鄉族群及極慢性營養相關疾病患者之營養調查及設定營養及飲食建議攝取基準。"},{"start":6222.958,"end":6246.75,"text":"經調查若有發現缺乏特定營養素顯有危害健康之餘時,得公告提供或補充該特定營養成分添加食品,添加該特定營養成分,依前項公告之特定營養成分及其所添加之食品,均依符合食品安全衛生管理法及其相關法規之規定。委員林淑芬等19人提案第14條人民修正為國民其餘委員吳玉琴等16人提案同。"},{"start":6250.56,"end":6277.994,"text":"委員陳佩玉等16人提案第13條中央主管機關議第8條之營養調查研究結果發現國民缺乏特定營養素而有營養不良之餘時得提出營養強化建議鼓勵食品業者於食品中添加特定營養成分及建議添加比例範圍食品業者依前項建議於食品中添加特定營養成分應符合食品安全衛生管理法及其相關法規定為依前項建議成分及比例添加者不得以營養或強化為"},{"start":6280.055,"end":6304.782,"text":"為其品名標示宣傳或廣告。委員張俊成等21人提案。時代力量黨團提案第12條,首具第8修正為第9,七域院版第11條同。行政院提案第三章,健康飲食支持環境委員劉建國等18人提案。委員吳玉琴等16人提案。民眾黨黨團提案。委員蘇強威等23人提案。委員林維周等17人提案。委員楊瓊英等17人提案。"},{"start":6305.402,"end":6320.973,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案、委員陳敬明等18人提案、委員林淑芬等19人提案、委員陳培宇等16人提案、委員莊敬成等21人提案、時代力量黨團提案第三章健康飲食支持環境委員張玉美等17人提案第三章健康飲食之支持"},{"start":6321.693,"end":6331.698,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案第15條中央主管機關應會商各目的事業主管機關針對供應團體膳食機構訂定膳食供應規範以符合國民營養建議攝取基準。前項供應團體膳食機構之定義由中央主管機關另定之。民眾黨黨團提案第20條中央主管機關應會同各目的事業主管機關針對供應團體膳食機構訂定膳食供應規範以符合國民營養及飲食建議攝取基準。"},{"start":6348.266,"end":6365.982,"text":"前向團體膳食機構之定義由中央主管機關定之委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第16條委員邱太元等19人提案第13條中央主管機關應就固定供應特定多數人餐食之團體膳食機構定定符合國民營養及飲食攝取基準之膳食供應規範"},{"start":6367.743,"end":6388.872,"text":"委員林淑芬等19人提案。第15條中央主管機關因會商各目的事業主管機關針對供應團體膳食機構定定膳食供應規範以符合國民營養建議攝取基準,前項供應團體膳食機構之定義由中央主管機關另定之。委員莊敬成等21人提案第18條幼兒園及高級中等以下學校辦理飲食供應"},{"start":6390.012,"end":6411.977,"text":"公己因依中央主管機關所定人民營養及飲食建議攝取基準及建議提供衛生安全及營養均衡之飲食。行政院提案第12條政府機關購於輔導食品業者開發產製食品及自備飲食時應納入營養之考量生產以在地農產品為主原料之食品及有益於人民之健康飲食。"},{"start":6413.618,"end":6437.138,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案第12條與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第16條與院版第12條同民眾黨黨團提案第13條政府機關構應納入營養之考量輔導食品業者於開發產製食品及自備飲食時生產以在地農產品為主原料之食品及有益於人民之健康飲食並促進健康飲食產業鏈之建立"},{"start":6439.42,"end":6443.971,"text":"委員蘇強慧等23人提案第18條委員邱太元等19人提案第18條"},{"start":6446.041,"end":6474.911,"text":"政府於輔導食品餐飲業者開發產製食品及自備飲食時應納入營養之考量生產以在地農產品為主原料之食品及有益於國民之健康飲食委員楊崇英等17人提案第12條政府機關購因輔導食品業者研發產製食品及自備有益國民健康食品時應納入營養之考量生產以在地農產品為主原料之食品及有益於國民之健康飲食委員張玉美等17人提案第13條"},{"start":6475.831,"end":6481.714,"text":"修正人名為國民二字其餘與院版第12條同。委員陳敬明等18人提案第13條刪除及自備飲食時之文字其餘與院版第12條同。委員林淑芬等19人提案第16條與院版第12條同。委員陳培鈺等16人提案第15條政府機關購魚輔導食品業者開發產製食品"},{"start":6496.121,"end":6518.594,"text":"及自備飲食時應納入營養之考量生產以在地農產品為主原料之食品及有益於國民之健康飲食委員莊敬成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案第13條同院版第12條委員蘇強慧等23人提案第19條中央主管機關為促進前條所定之事項應建立使用在地農產品原料與健康飲食之標章制度供國民選擇食品與飲食時參考"},{"start":6521.255,"end":6545.133,"text":"前向標章制度之實施辦法由中央主管機關會同中央農業主管機關定之。委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第二十條中央主管機關因鼓勵以推動營養及健康飲食為目的之非營利民間法人團體之成立並建立專業認證制度。各級主管機關於推動本法所定之營養及健康飲食事項時,得指定或委託營養司法所定之營養諮詢機構或前向非營利民間法人團體為之。"},{"start":6549.116,"end":6558.495,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第17條各級主管關於推動本法所定制營養及健康飲食事項時,得指定委託營養司法所定制營養諮詢機構為之。"},{"start":6561.567,"end":6585.146,"text":"委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第21條鄉鎮市區之衛生所應設有營養師辦理社區營養及健康飲食教育提供營養及健康飲食諮詢服務並協助推動本法相關事項前向實施辦法由中央主管機關定之委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第22條委員邱太元等19人提案第18條政府應積極運用多元之方法宣導正確之營養及健康飲食諮詢"},{"start":6589.469,"end":6597.957,"text":"行政院提案第13條中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育納入下列從業人員之在職訓練或繼續教育課程一、醫師、藥師、護理師、助產師、物理治療師、職能治療師、營養師、公共衛生師、藥劑師、護士、助產師、物理治療師及職能治療師二、長期照顧服務人員"},{"start":6611.63,"end":6625.747,"text":"三、托育人員、早期療癒教保人員及早期療癒助理教保人員四、教保服務人員及課後照顧服務人員五、食品業者專門職業或技術證照人員六、其他經中央主管機關公告之人員"},{"start":6627.506,"end":6644.118,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案委員楊瓊英等17人提案第13條刪除住產屍頓耗及公共衛生屍頓耗其與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第17條與委員劉建國等18人提案第13條同民眾黨黨團提案第14條委員陳培鈺等16人提案第16條修正第一款為醫事人員其與院版第13條同委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第26條"},{"start":6656.147,"end":6677.874,"text":"中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育納入下列從業人員致在職訓練或繼續教育課程一、醫事人員二、長期照顧服務人員三、托育人員、教保服務人員及課後照顧服務人員四、食品飲食業者專門職業或技術人員五、其他經中央主管機關公告職人員委員張玉美等17人提案第14條與院版第13條同。第14條"},{"start":6685.899,"end":6696.726,"text":"修正序文具首為中央主管機關與各目的事業主管機關修正第一款為醫事人員其餘與院版第13條同委員林淑芬等19人提案第17條與院版第13條同委員莊俊成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案第14條同院版第13條"},{"start":6703.45,"end":6729.859,"text":"行政院提案第14條政府機關購、行政法人、公立各級學校與幼兒園、軍隊、公民事業機構及政府捐助之財團法人辦理之活動或會議、採購禮品或其他物品及製作宣導品應納入健康飲食之考量。委員劉建國等18人提案、委員林維周等17人提案、委員楊瓊英等17人提案。第14條刪除軍隊二字倒數第三具具首增列以公務預算之印。其餘與院版同。"},{"start":6730.899,"end":6756.439,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案第18條與委員劉建國等18人提案第14條同民眾黨黨團提案第15條與委員劉建國等18人提案第14條同委員林維周等17人提案委員楊瓊英等17人提案委員陳敬敏等18人提案第15條委員林淑芬等19人提案第18條與委員劉建國等18人提案第14條同委員陳培宇等16人提案第17條與院辦第14條同"},{"start":6760.205,"end":6786.203,"text":"委員莊敬成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案第15條與院版第14條同。行政院提案第15條,主管機關得獎勵政府機關構、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校幼兒園托育機構、軍隊法輪集團體、建構健康飲食環境、前項獎勵之對象條件方式申請程序、審查及其他相關事項之辦法,由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":6787.406,"end":6792.27,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案委員楊瓊英等17人提案第15條主管機關得獎勵政府、機關構、社會福利機構、學校與幼兒園、軍隊、法輪廓團體建構健康飲食環境委員吳玉琴等16人提案第19條"},{"start":6803.359,"end":6811.461,"text":"主管機關得獎勵政府機關構、社會福利機構、學校與幼兒援軍隊法人或團體建構健康飲食環境民眾黨黨團提案第16條主管機關應獎勵政府機關構、社會福利機構、學校與幼兒援軍隊法人或團體合作社、私人企業建構健康飲食環境包括社區共食、廚房及蔬食友善環境委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第17條"},{"start":6828.584,"end":6843.198,"text":"中央主管機關得獎勵政府、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校與幼兒園、軍隊、法人或團體建構健康飲食環境。前項獎勵辦法由中央主管機關定之。委員張玉梅等17人提案第15條與院本同。"},{"start":6845.802,"end":6866.236,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第14條中央主管機關應獎勵政府、機關、國、醫事機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校與幼兒園、托育機構、軍隊、法人或團體建構健康飲食環境。傾向獎勵辦法由中央主管機關定之。委員陳敬明等18人提案第16條主管機關得獎勵政府、機關、國、醫事機構、社會福利機構、學校與幼兒園、軍隊、法人或團體建構健康飲食環境。"},{"start":6874.381,"end":6902.628,"text":"委員林淑芬等19人提案第19條與委員劉建國等18人提案第15條同。委員陳佩玉等16人提案第18條。主管機關得獎勵政府機關及社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、社區整體照顧服務體系各單位、學校幼兒園、托育機構、軍隊、公司、法輪及團體建構健康飲食環境。傾向獎勵之對象、條件、方式、申請程序、審查及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":6903.368,"end":6932.239,"text":"委員莊敬成等21人提案第16條同院盤第15條時代力量黨團提案第16條主管機關得獎勵政府機關構、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校幼兒園托育機構、早期療育機構、安置及教養機構、矯正機關、軍隊、法輪及團體、建構健康飲食環境。前項獎勵之對象條件方式申請程序、審查及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":6932.859,"end":6946.571,"text":"行政院提案第16條父母、監護人或其他實際照顧兒童及少年之人應提供符合兒童及少年營養需求之飲食委員劉建國等18人提案委員張玉美等17人提案委員邱太元等19人提案第16條與院版同"},{"start":6948.172,"end":6954.094,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案第20條委員陳培鈺等16人提案第19條與院版第16條同民眾黨黨團提案第17條與院版第16條同委員蘇強慧等23人提案第11條下列人員之家屬監護人或實際照顧者應注意依國民營養及飲食建議設取基準"},{"start":6968.959,"end":6993.021,"text":"提供符合營養需求之飲食一、嬰幼兒、兒童及少年二、孕產婦三、老人、醫療或社會福利機構人員進行醫療或相關協助時應予選導之。委員凌維州等17人提案第16條增訂第二項如下老人撫養義務人應提供符合老人營養需求之飲食增訂第三項如下矯正機關一提供符合疾病"},{"start":6994.381,"end":7015.76,"text":"應提供符合疾患高齡受刑人之營養需求之飲食契約院版同委員陳敬明等18人提案第17條父母、監護人、老人、撫養義務人或其他實際照顧之人應提供符合兒童及老人營養需求之飲食委員莊敬成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案第17條同院版第16條"},{"start":7016.801,"end":7032.335,"text":"行政院提案第17條幼兒園及高級中等以下學校公售飲品及點心應依幼兒教育及照顧法學校衛生法及其相關法令之公售原則或範圍辦理委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案第17條與院版同"},{"start":7035.185,"end":7057.825,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案第21條修正第一句及第二句為幼兒園及高級中等以下學校供應飲品及點心。七、議院版第17條同民眾黨黨團提案第18條幼兒園及高級中等以下學校供受飲品及點心因應幼兒教育及照顧法學校衛生法之相關法令供受原則或範圍辦理"},{"start":7059.406,"end":7070.928,"text":"委員楊崇英等17人提案第17條與首具據莫增列逗號其餘願反同。委員張一美等17人提案第17條與願反同。委員邱太元等19...抱歉。委員陳靜..."},{"start":7072.918,"end":7098.01,"text":"委員陳培宇等16人提案第20條幼兒園及高級中等影像學校供受飲品及點心因依幼兒教育及照顧法學校衛生法及相關法令之供受原則或範圍辦理委員莊敬成等21人提案第19條與院版第17條同時代力量黨團提案第18條幼兒園及高級中等影像學校供受飲食因依幼兒教育及照顧法學校衛生法及其相關法令之供受原則或範圍辦理"},{"start":7099.611,"end":7117.552,"text":"民眾黨黨團提案第19條中央主管機關公告一定類別規模之餐飲業者應於公善場所之明顯出貨菜單上表示各類餐食之熱量、營養成分及其他營養相關資訊並同步上網揭露。傾向餐飲業者之類別規模營養訊息之內容"},{"start":7121.156,"end":7139.824,"text":"營養資訊標示方式及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第15條中央主管機關公告一定類別或規模以上直接供應飲食之場所應於供膳場所之明顯處或菜單上標示各類餐食之熱量、營養成分及其他營養相關資訊。前項營養資訊之內容標示方式及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":7147.367,"end":7156.53,"text":"委員陳培鈺等16人提案第14條中央主管機關得公告指定一定類別、一定規模以上餐飲業者應於供應場所之明顯處或菜單上標示各類飲食之熱量、營養成分及其他營養資訊,如業者由網頁揭示餐飲品項者亦應標示之。"},{"start":7166.713,"end":7180.287,"text":"前項餐飲業者之類別規模營養資訊之內容標示方式及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。中央主管機關應會同目的事業主管機關針對供應團體膳食機構訂定膳食供應規範以符合營養及飲食建議攝取基準。前項供應團體膳食機構之定義由中央主管機關另定之。"},{"start":7189.693,"end":7215.328,"text":"行政院提案第四章營養及健康飲食教育委員劉建國等18人提案委員吳玉琴等16人提案民眾黨黨團提案委員蘇強威等23人提案委員林文周等17人提案委員楊春英等17人提案委員張玉美等17人提案委員邱太元等19人提案委員陳靜敏等18人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案委員陳培鈺等16人提案委員莊建成等21人提案時代力量黨團提案第四章營養及健康飲食教育"},{"start":7216.428,"end":7237.199,"text":"委員蘇曉偉等23人提案第24條,營養及健康飲食教育應包含以下項目。一、透過良好的飲食習慣,適切地攝取營養保持健康之知識。二、加深對食材來源生產消費過程之了解,理解國家及在地之飲食文化。三、養成對生命及自然之尊重,並增進環境保護意識。"},{"start":7238,"end":7246.337,"text":"四、其他營養及健康飲食相關智能委員陳培宇等16人提案第21條營養及健康飲食教育至少應包含下列內容。"},{"start":7247.95,"end":7273.773,"text":"一、學習如何判讀飲食的營養資訊選擇健康飲食的智能學習如何適當攝取營養以保持健康二、加強對飲食食材的生產消費過程的認識三、認識飲食來自自然環境的恩賜培養尊重生命及保護自然環境的觀念四、瞭解我國及國內不同地方不同時期的在地飲食文化五、其他營養及健康飲食相關智能"},{"start":7274.474,"end":7275.955,"text":"委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第25條營養及健康飲食教育實施者需領有營養師證書並經中央主管機關或其指定之營養諮詢機構或經認證之民間法人團體培訓合格者"},{"start":7288.516,"end":7304.356,"text":"前向培訓實施辦法由中央主管機關定資。行政院提案第18條政府機關構行政法人公立各級學校與幼兒園、軍隊公營事業機構及政府捐助資財團法人應鼓勵員工接受營養及健康飲食教育。"},{"start":7305.851,"end":7334.029,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案委員楊瓊英等17人提案第18條與院版同委員吳玉琴等16人委員林淑芬等19人提案第22條與院版第18條同民眾黨黨團提案第21條政府機關構行政法人公立各級學校與幼兒園軍隊公營事業機構及政府捐助資財團法人應推動營養及健康飲食教育並與食農教育環境教育做適當結合"},{"start":7336.636,"end":7341.708,"text":"委員林偉俊等17人提案、委員楊瓊英等17人提案、委員張玉美等17人提案第18條語願版同。"},{"start":7345.202,"end":7348.443,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第19條與院版第18條同。委員陳培宇等16人提案第22條政府機關各醫療機構護理機構社會福利機構長期照顧服務機構社區整體照顧服務體系各單位學校幼兒園托育機構軍隊公司法人團體或事業單位均應鼓勵員工接受營養及健康飲食教育"},{"start":7368.252,"end":7383.058,"text":"委員莊敬成等21人提案第20條與院版第18條同時代力量黨團提案第19條與院版第18條同行政院提案第19條主管機關與各級目的事業主管機關應鼓勵政府、機關、各醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校幼兒園、托育機構、軍隊、法輪及團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放人民參與"},{"start":7395.598,"end":7422.036,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案第19條主管機關與各級目的事業主管機關應鼓勵私立學校幼兒園法人及團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放供人民參與委員吳玉琴等16人提案第23條主管機關與各級目的事業主管機關應鼓勵私立學校幼兒園法人及團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放供人民參與民眾黨黨團提案第22條"},{"start":7424.978,"end":7446.894,"text":"主管機關與各級目的事業主管機關應支持協助私立學校、幼兒園、法輪及團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育與食農教育、環境教育做適當結合並得開放供人民參與。前項鼓勵措施應訂定計劃、定期檢討或修正。各目的事業主管機關並應建立督導考核之辦理及指標。"},{"start":7448.015,"end":7467.988,"text":"委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第28條主管機關與各目的事業主管機關應鼓勵政府機關構、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校或幼兒園、軍隊法輪或團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放供國民參與委員楊瓊英等17人提案第19條默具為並得開放供國民參與其予與委員劉建國等18人提案同委員張藝美等17人提案第19條"},{"start":7480.898,"end":7490.045,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第20條主管機關與各目的事業主管機關應鼓勵政府機關構、醫事機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構、學校幼兒園、托育機構、軍隊法輪候團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放供國民參與。"},{"start":7500.254,"end":7514.033,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提議案第20條主管機關與各目的事業主管機關應鼓勵私立學校幼兒園法輪及團體對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放公人民參與委員林淑芬等19人提議案第23條莫具為"},{"start":7516.236,"end":7543.281,"text":"並得開放公國民參與其餘與委員劉建國等18人提案第19條同委員陳培鈺等16人提案第23條主管機關及目的事業主管機關應鼓勵政府機關構醫療機構護理機構社會福利機構長期照顧服務機構社區整體照顧服務體系各單位學校幼兒園托育機構軍隊公司法人團體及事業單位對其員工辦理營養及健康飲食教育並得開放非員工參與"},{"start":7545.407,"end":7564.39,"text":"委員莊敬成等21人提案第21條與院版第19條同時代力量黨團提案第20條與院版第19條同行政院提案第20條主管機關應鼓勵醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構對其服務對象及其家屬、社區居民進行營養及健康飲食教育"},{"start":7565.091,"end":7586.143,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案第二十條第一項首二據為主管機關與各目的事業主管機關應鼓勵一事機構增訂第二項各級農業主管機關應鼓勵農林漁牧業者結合食品業者、政府機關構、學校與幼兒園、法輪及團體推動營養及健康飲食教育期遇願反同"},{"start":7587.043,"end":7594.509,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案第24條委員楊瓊英等17人提案第20條第一項與院版第20條同第二項與委員劉建國等18人提案第20條同民眾黨黨團提案第23條主管、機關應支持、協助、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構"},{"start":7608.366,"end":7629.023,"text":"對其服務對象及其家屬、社區居民進行營養及健康飲食教育與食農教育、環境教育做適當結合。各級農業主管機關應支持協助農民與牧業者結合食品業者、政府機關構、學校與幼兒園法輪集團體推動營養及健康飲食教育與食農教育、環境教育做適當結合。"},{"start":7630.464,"end":7634.266,"text":"委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第29條主管機關與各目的事業主管機關應鼓勵醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構對其服務對象及其家屬、社區居民辦理營養及健康飲食教育委員林惟洲等17人提案第20條與委員劉建國等18人提案同委員張一美等17人提案第20條"},{"start":7653.115,"end":7663.704,"text":"醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構應對其服務對象及其家屬、社區居民進行營養及健康飲食教育委員邱太元等19人提案第21條主管機關應鼓勵醫事機構、護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構對其服務對象及其家屬、社區居民辦理營養及健康飲食教育第二項與委員劉建國等18人提案第20條同委員陳敬明等18人提案第21條刪除第二具"},{"start":7682.059,"end":7690.416,"text":"具首各級農業主管機關其餘委員劉建國等18人提案第20條同委員陳培育等16人提案第24條主管機關應鼓勵醫療機構"},{"start":7693.673,"end":7710.924,"text":"護理機構、社會福利機構、長期照顧服務機構及社區整體照顧服務體系各單位,對其服務地向及其家屬、社區居民辦理營養及健康飲食教育,農業主管機關應鼓勵農水畜產業者、結合食品餐飲業者、政府機關構、學校幼兒園工"},{"start":7713.84,"end":7734.621,"text":"公司、法人或團體推動營養及健康飲食教育請二項營養及健康飲食教育以結合食農教育及環境教育為之委員莊敬成等21人提案第22條與院版第20條同時代力量黨團提案第21條第一項與院版第20條同第二項與委員陳培宇等16人提案第24條第二項同"},{"start":7736.423,"end":7753.258,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人委員林淑芬等19人提案第25條主管機關及各級目的事業主管機關應鼓勵供應團體善食之機關構及公司立場所推動營養及健康飲食教育前向營養及健康飲食教育之推動方式及獎勵措施由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":7754.522,"end":7773.769,"text":"委員陳佩玉等16人提案第28條本法定有應鼓勵事項者,其鼓勵方案之規劃執行及考核辦法由中央主管機關定之。行政院提案第21條中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育列入下列政府機關構、學校、幼兒園、民間機構或法輪評鑑或輔導項目一、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構"},{"start":7781.011,"end":7790.812,"text":"二、托育機構找其療育機構安置及教養機構矯正機關與其他依法設立之收容安置及救養機構或場所。三、各級學校及幼兒園"},{"start":7792.659,"end":7813.364,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案。委員林維周等17人提案。第二十一條。續文目二具為學校及幼兒園民間機構或法人之評鑑或輔導項目。第二款為二、托嬰中心、早期療癒機構、安置及教養機構、矯正機關及其他依法設立之收容安置與救養機構或場所。其餘與院版同為"},{"start":7814.744,"end":7841.662,"text":"民眾黨黨團提案第24條中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育列入下列政府機關、各學校及幼兒園、民間機構或法輪之評鑑或輔導項目一、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構二、托嬰中心早期療癒機構安置及教養機構矯正機關及其他依法設立之收容安置與救養機構或場所委員蘇巧慧等23人提案"},{"start":7843.493,"end":7855.157,"text":"第27條中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育之範圍及推動列入下列政府機關構、學校及幼兒園、民間機構或法輪之評鑑或輔導項目一、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構二、托育機構、早期療育機構、安置及教養機構、矯正機關及其他醫法設立及收容安置與救養機構或場所三、各級學校及幼兒園"},{"start":7870.882,"end":7881.887,"text":"委員楊瓊英等17人提案第21條,增訂第4款。四、每日對特定群體固定公餐之政府機關構及私立機構團體,其餘委員劉建國等18人提案同。委員張玉梅等17人提案第21條,"},{"start":7886.169,"end":7908.538,"text":"下列機關構及公司立場所之目的事業主管機關應依營養調查及監測結果督導推動必要之營養改善措施一、醫療機構、護理機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧服務機構二、托育機構、早期療癒機構、安置及教養機構、矯正機關與其他依法設立之收容安置及救養機構或場所三、各級學校及幼兒園"},{"start":7909.378,"end":7932.674,"text":"中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育列入前項政府機關構學校幼兒園民間機構或法人之評鑑或輔導項目。委員陳敬明等18人提案第二十二條中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育列入下列政府機關構學校及幼兒園民間機構或法人之評鑑或輔導項目。一、醫事機構、社會福利機構及長期照顧機構。二、托嬰中心"},{"start":7939.258,"end":7944.599,"text":"早期療癒機構安置及教養機構矯正機關及其他依法設立之收容安置與救養機構或場所三、各級學校及幼兒園委員陳培宇等16人提案第25條第一款如下一、醫療機構護理機構社會福利機構長期照顧服務機構及社區整體照顧服務體系各單位其餘與院版第21條同委員莊敬成等21人提案第23條與院版第21條同"},{"start":7966.743,"end":7993.897,"text":"時代力量黨團提案第22條與院反第21條同。行政院提案第22條任何人不得利用廣告或其他方法傳播不實質營養及健康飲食消息。前項所稱利用廣告或其他方法傳播只利用電視、廣播、影片、換單片、報紙、雜誌、傳單、海報、招牌、牌坊、電腦、電話傳真、電子視訊、電子語音、網際網路或其他方法使不特定多數人知悉其宣傳內容者。"},{"start":7995.898,"end":8011.218,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案第二十二條刪除所稱及頓耗網際網路之文字契約與原版同。委員吳玉琴等16人提案第二十六條與委員劉建國等18人提案第二十二條同。民眾黨黨團提案第二十五條"},{"start":8011.798,"end":8025.855,"text":"因藥及健康飲食消息、宣傳及廣告內容之傳播,不得有虛偽或誇大不實之情勢。傾向虛偽、誇大之認定、基準、消息、宣傳或廣告之內容方式及其他因遵行事項之準則,由中央主管機關定之。"},{"start":8026.696,"end":8049.523,"text":"委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第23條,任何人不得利用廣告或其他方法傳播不實質營養及健康飲食訊息。前項利用廣告或其他方法傳播,指利用電視、廣播、影片、幻燈片、報紙、雜誌、傳單、海報、招牌、牌坊、電腦、傳真、電子視訊、電子語音、網路社群或其他方法使不特定多數人知悉其宣傳內容者。"},{"start":8050.883,"end":8059.086,"text":"委員林維周等17人提案第22條刪除第二項所稱二字契約與願反同。委員楊瓊英等17人提案第22條刪除所稱、換燈片、牌方、網際網路等文字契約與願反同。委員張玉美等17人提案第22條與願反同。"},{"start":8071.229,"end":8093.785,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第19條任何人不得利用廣告或其他方法傳播不實質營養及健康飲食訊息。前項利用廣告或其他方法傳播只利用電視、廣播、影片、換燈片、報紙、雜誌、傳單、海報、招牌、牌坊、電腦、傳真、電子視訊、電子語音、網路、社群或其他方法使不特定多數人知悉其宣傳內容者。"},{"start":8095.106,"end":8105.854,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第23條任何人不得傳播不實質營養及健康飲食消息。前項傳播只利用電視、廣播、影片、換單片、報紙、雜誌、傳單、海報、招牌、牌坊、電腦、電話傳真、電子視訊、電子語音"},{"start":8112.038,"end":8123.764,"text":"網路、社群或其他方法使不特定多數人知悉其宣傳內容者委員林淑芬等19人提案第26條與委員劉建國等18人提案第22條同委員陳培鈺等16人提案第26條與院版第22條同委員莊敬成等21人提案第24條與院版第22條同時代力量黨團提案第23條與院版第22條同行政院提案第5章法則"},{"start":8140.868,"end":8164.776,"text":"委員及黨團提案共計13案第五章均為罰則。行政院提案第二十三條違反前條第一項規定傳播不實質營養或健康飲食消息有影響人民健康之餘者直轄市縣市主管機關應令其限期改正。藉其為改正者處刑台幣三萬元以上、三十萬元以下罰款,並得按照處罰制改正為止。"},{"start":8165.896,"end":8182.914,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案委員林維周等17人提案第二十三條第二句或改為即刪除直轄市縣市之文字其餘與原版同委員吳玉琴等16人提案第二十七條與委員劉建國等18人提案第二十三條同民眾黨黨團提案第二十六條"},{"start":8183.835,"end":8200.901,"text":"違反前條第一項規定,有虛偽或誇大不實質營養及健康飲食消息,有影響人民健康之餘者,主管機關應令其限期改正。借其為改正者處新台幣5萬元以上30萬元以下罰還,得按次處罰制改正,並得按次處罰制改正為止。"},{"start":8202.061,"end":8216.355,"text":"委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第31條違反第23條第一項規定傳播不實質營養及健康飲食消息有影響人民健康之餘者主管機關應令其限期改正。藉其未改正者處刑台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下罰還,並得按次處罰至改善為止。"},{"start":8220.259,"end":8245.489,"text":"委員楊瓊英等17人提案第23條違反前條第一項規定傳播不實質營養及健康飲食消息有影響國民健康之餘者主管機關應令其限期改正。藉其為改正者處新台幣5萬元以上30萬元以下罰還並得按次處罰至改正為止。委員張玉美等17人提案第23條修正人名為國民二字區域院版同。"},{"start":8247.168,"end":8262.675,"text":"委員邱太元等19人提案第23條違反第19條第1項規定傳播不實質營養及健康飲食消息有影響人民健康之餘者主管機關應令其限期改正,藉其為改正者處新台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下罰款,並得按次處罰至改正為止。"},{"start":8266.397,"end":8280.671,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第24條違反前條第一項規定傳播不實質營養及健康飲食消息有影響人民健康之餘者,只管機關應令其限期改正。藉其為改正者儲新台幣5萬元以上、35萬元以下罰還,並得按次處罰至改正為止。"},{"start":8285.996,"end":8291.04,"text":"委員林淑芬等19人提案第27條與委員劉建國等18人提案第23條同委員陳培宇等16人提案第27條修正人民為國民二字契約與院版同委員莊敬成等21人提案第25條"},{"start":8302.209,"end":8310.094,"text":"違反前條第一項規定傳播不實質營養或健康飲食消息有影響人民健康之餘者處心台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下罰還並令其限期改善藉其為改善者得按次處罰時代力量黨團提案第24條與院版第23條同"},{"start":8319.259,"end":8348.079,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案、委員林惟洲等17人提案、委員楊瓊英等17人提案。第24條,指定食品之製造業者或輸入業者違反第11條第一項規定,為依公告內容添加特定營養成分或輸入之食品為添加特定營養成分或為減負相關證明者,主管機關應令其限期改善。藉其為改善者處新台幣一萬元以上十萬元以下罰款,並得按照處罰制改善為止,輸入前項指定食品。"},{"start":8348.719,"end":8361.604,"text":"經通關查驗不符合第11條第一項規定者,中央主管機關應管制其輸入,並格為前項之處分。委員吳玉琴等16人、委員林淑芬等19人提案第28條第一項及第二項為第14條第一項規定,其餘與委員劉建國等18人提案第24條同。"},{"start":8370.114,"end":8381.856,"text":"民眾黨黨團提案第27條委員邱太元等19人提案第22條第一項及第二項為第12條第一項規定其餘委員劉建國等18人提案第24條同"},{"start":8384.383,"end":8412.576,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第25條,指定食品制製造業者或輸入業者違反第12條第二項規定未亦公告內容,添加特定營養成分或輸入之食品,為添加特定營養成分或減負相關證明者,主管機關應令其限期改善,藉其為改善者儲新台幣3萬元以上15萬元以下罰還,並得按次處罰至改善為止,輸入前項指定食品,經"},{"start":8413.817,"end":8441.08,"text":"通關查驗不符合第12條第二項規定者,中央主管機關應管制其輸入,並得為前項之處分。委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第30條,餐飲業者未依第15條第一項規定標示或違反第15條第二項未依中央主管機關所定標示內容或標示方式,經主管機關命其限期改正,藉其不改正者處心台幣三千元以上、一萬元以下罰款,並得按次處罰。"},{"start":8442.381,"end":8459.207,"text":"委員劉建國等18人提案、委員林惟洲等17人提案、委員陳敬明等18人提案第26條。單發所定制法則由地方主管機關為之,必要時得由中央主管機關為之。行政院提案第6章負責。委員及黨團提案第13案第6章均為負責。"},{"start":8462.645,"end":8470.55,"text":"行政院提案第25條等法制公佈日施行委員劉建國等18人提案第27條委員吳玉琴等16人提案第30條民眾黨黨團提案第29條委員蘇喬惠等23人提案第33條委員林惠洲等17人提案第27條委員楊瓊英等17人提案第26條委員張玉美等17人提案委員邱太元等19人提案第25條"},{"start":8485.999,"end":8497.063,"text":"委員陳敬明等18人提案第28條。委員林淑芬等19人提案。委員陳培育等16人提案第30條。委員莊敬成等21人提案第27條。時代力量黨團提案第26條。與院版第25條同。"},{"start":8503.808,"end":8514.391,"text":"行政院提案第24條本法施行細則由中央主管機關定之委員劉建國等18人提案第26條委員吳玉琴等16人提案第29條民眾黨黨團提案第28條委員蘇巧慧等23人提案第32條委員林維周等17人提案第26條委員楊瓊英等17人提案第25條"},{"start":8526.314,"end":8539.126,"text":"委員張玉美等17人提案委員邱泰源等19人提案第24條與院版同委員陳敬明等18人提案第27條委員陳培宇等16人提案委員林淑芬等19人提案第29條委員莊敬成等21人提案第26條時代力量黨團提案第25條與院版第24條同以上"},{"start":8548.948,"end":8576.113,"text":"修正綜藝第一案第13條序文修正為中央主管機關與中央目的事業主管機關應推行並鼓勵營養及健康飲食教育納入下列人員之在職訓練或繼續教育課程第一款修正為從事相關工作之醫事人員增訂第二款公共衛生師其餘各款與院版同並順原序號"},{"start":8578.038,"end":8606.835,"text":"第二十一條續文莫具修正為民間機構或法人之輔導項目其餘與院板同提案委員邱太元、嚴署委員蘇巧慧、吳玉琴修正動議第二案第二十一條續文莫具修正為民間機構或法人之輔導項目其餘與院板同提案委員吳玉琴、邱太元、蘇巧慧"},{"start":8608.197,"end":8629.681,"text":"修正動議第三案第九條第三項修正為中央主管機關因依第一項之基準並考量人民宗教信仰、區域及文化差異、氣候變遷及環境永續提出飲食建議其餘同行政院版第十二條政府機關構與輔導食品餐飲業者開發"},{"start":8635.162,"end":8655.994,"text":"產製食品及自備飲食時應納入營養之考量生產以在地農產品符合環境永續與提升動物福利為主原料之食品及有益於人民之健康飲食提案委員蘇曉慧聯署委員吳玉琴賴會員宣讀完畢我們現在進行"},{"start":8663.277,"end":8690.28,"text":"現在進行營養及健康飲食促進法草案及國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案之主條審查,以行政院提議案條字為準,進行討論每條條文,請先請行政單位說明,接著請委員表意見。來,資料從看哪一個,看這一個,大本的齁。好,謝謝主席齁。我們開始一個一個齁,名稱。"},{"start":8692.14,"end":8706.973,"text":"從章年開始行政院的版本是營養及健康飲食促進法草案謝謝委員提議有些是以國民為主因為在我們審理法條的時候那麼"},{"start":8708.354,"end":8737.232,"text":"我們的法官會建議說依聯合國人權公約提及保障人權的規定以及本法是以人們為主體所以在法條說明裡面不建議在這個草案的名稱特別強調建立委能夠支持委員有沒有意見沒有意見通過先等一下人數不足啦先討論一下下面有兩位兩位才能決議"},{"start":8738.226,"end":8738.486,"text":"那誰會來?蛤?誰?"},{"start":8738.486,"end":8753.057,"text":"齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆會員 齊智隆"},{"start":8755.065,"end":8774.196,"text":"那第一張是不是先主席在底下的所有條文如果有寫國民的是不是以病修正為倫敏好沒有問題就這樣子齁好謝謝按照行政院提案好第一張總則齁那謝謝大家各委員提案都現在滿本一致我先講沒有問題就一直過好第一條"},{"start":8775.782,"end":8797.552,"text":"第1條未建國健康飲食支持環境提升人民營養及健康飲食資能增進人民健康特制定本法那建議以行政院版本為大概因為委員的意思大概涵蓋在這個行政院版本裡面好我們先這樣子沒有問題第一條再來第二條"},{"start":8803.288,"end":8830.787,"text":"第二條只要是這些本法用詞定義那第一項是營養指的是人體利用食物中所以是用法定義那各位有一些建議就是希望能夠在第五款行政院的營養調查裡面加上營養及飲食調查那因為這個整部法令牽扯的是營養跟飲食所以我們也同意這樣修正"},{"start":8833.639,"end":8844.324,"text":"對,第五款第五款本法用詞跟定義第五款營養調查改成營養及飲食調查我猜你現在這個是行政院辦嘛,要改做叫做按什麼人的這個蘇小愛委員的建議營養及飲食調查"},{"start":8861.67,"end":8883.193,"text":"好來來來吳衛奴在我想這個我沒有特別意見反而是有關於飲食的教育反而是在蘇委員蘇巧慧委員好像在24條對於等一下我要翻到那一條"},{"start":8888.772,"end":8908.304,"text":"他的24條有一個營養及健康飲食教育的算是內涵那我也要請教署長的是在這一部法裡面其實在後面非常多營養及健康飲食教育但是反而在定義裡面沒有特別去寫營養"},{"start":8910.965,"end":8936.659,"text":"《營養及健康飲食促進法草案》案是指什麼?你的定義反而沒有寫。因為我們在第四款的時候是講健康飲食啦。健康飲食。對。啊沒有教育啊。因為他那個巧惠委員的健康飲食。啊就是針對健康飲食來推廣跟教育。哦,可是那個巧惠委員的那個健康飲食教育他反而是回到學校衛生法裡面的定義耶。"},{"start":8938.929,"end":8962.446,"text":"當然這個資料是在後面啦但是因為你現在這一條第二條是一個定義啦所以有沒有必要在這裡去定義這個營養及健康飲食教育因為我對這個概念有點模糊在我們推廣健康飲食的時候就是在定義上其實我們針對的是健康飲食這個名字"},{"start":8964.008,"end":8991.673,"text":"對那教育他就是就是內容來做健康飲食推展的內容來做教育這樣好教育只是其中重要的活動那定義當然還是把營養這個比較專業的定清楚比較重要好吧我們第二條就先改成營養及飲食調查這樣的情況我們就沒有問題等一下再來切的第三條"},{"start":9002.806,"end":9029.404,"text":"第三條本法所稱主管機關在中央為衛生福利部在私下縣市為私下縣市政府在縣市為縣市政府本法所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關的執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理那相關的委員的建議因為這是目前的行政院的一個法制的作業的體育所以建議以行政院版本為主"},{"start":9036.838,"end":9044.689,"text":"第四條中央主管機關掌理下類營養及健康飲食促進事項一、政策與方案規劃制定"},{"start":9047.096,"end":9068.972,"text":"幾先導。二、直轄縣市主管機關執行之監督及協調。三、講述及評鑑之規劃。四、人聯訓練之規劃及推動。五、國際交流合作。六、其他應由中央主管機關辦理之事項。那個署長有時候你不用全部再練一遍,剛剛都練過了,你只要把它重..."},{"start":9069.468,"end":9098.448,"text":"跟大家不一樣的地方,你的意見這樣子就好,你們的意見因為劉委員是講把地方主管機關寫上去那這個剛剛已經通過了就建議不放在這裡那現在吳委員所提的就是把我們辦理事項再詳細的表列出來那這個部分也希望委員能夠因為我們這個已經相關細項可能會在細則裡面去處理最後就是委員所提的有關經費的匡列的部分"},{"start":9100.33,"end":9118.2,"text":"建會的部分那就請待會看主計上是不是有另外意見齁這個部分再請大家看一下那其他的相關事項都已經涵蓋在我們這個行政院的版本裡面主計你剛剛講了匡列預算匡列預算要寫在這裡嗎"},{"start":9136.877,"end":9163.556,"text":"可能有有有有些專業會在乎預算吶吼那我們是不是在哪個地方在做討論這個地方把他加進來適當嗎?市長沒關係你就看吼你怎麼你說的沒關係吼好我們是建立說吼這一條大事項就在這裡所以我是覺得說我們那部分非常熟悉他的前後對寸吶吼免得就這樣啊"},{"start":9165.905,"end":9182.31,"text":"但是你還是要把委員大概整體這些日子來聽到的事情到時候必要的時候都在那邊做一個說明因為相關建委是依照這個預算法來執行的所以我們是建立暫時不列好第四條就先用這種方式來來"},{"start":9185.038,"end":9204.833,"text":"主席謝謝那因為在第四條我好像也有建議修正那剛剛好像在署長並沒有把我們的這個建議採納那也沒有提到為什麼沒有採納這個第四條這邊我有把主要負責的一個事項有新增的第五款就是營養及飲食建議攝取基準之訂定"},{"start":9205.533,"end":9228.338,"text":"健康飲食或營養相關重大事件處理之建議那我想這個主要就是這個法很重要的精神所以把相關我們中央跟地方要負責的一個事項把這個地方有增列進來那署內沒有採任不曉得為什麼吼跟委員說明一下吼那有關這個營養與健康飲食的基準那在我們第"},{"start":9229.827,"end":9256.204,"text":"第九條,第八條裡面就會建置食品營養成分的資料庫。第九條也會已經有訂定人民營養及健康飲食設計的基準。好,所以後面有的啦齁。不過我還是補充一下,你那個第三條嗎,第三款吧,講主席評鑑之規劃,評鑑不是要拿掉嗎?所有的評鑑。欸,主席。"},{"start":9265.286,"end":9284.561,"text":"我先說明一下我的條文裡面的一二三款當然有去對照了現在的條文我的第一款就是現在條文的第八條會處理有關營養的調查跟監測再來第二條第二款的部分營養的基準會在第九條處理"},{"start":9286.042,"end":9311.698,"text":"第三條,第三款的部分也就是可能跟那個陳靜敏委員我們有12條但是我們等一下可能進入到12條的時候我們是覺得在12條應該針對我們一些特殊飲食的部分應該要有一些還是要有一個營養跟飲食的指引所以待會可能進到那一邊要一起再討論那所以這個條文是比較建議是先"},{"start":9312.618,"end":9336.434,"text":"保留我們可以看一下那另外剛呃召委在談的那個評鑑喔那我們在後面都有提到那個評鑑要拿掉對可是那個評鑑是針對營養教育呃營養健康教育要入入各各單位各各個評鑑的指標我們反我們不太支持啦齁所以我們把那個評鑑拿掉就是只有輔導可是在這裡應該是一個中央比較"},{"start":9337.154,"end":9337.895,"text":"議員吳玉琴等16人擬具"},{"start":9367.174,"end":9382.265,"text":"更混亂或是壓力更大所以這個層次上是有些不同所以我是覺得這個第四條的這個第三款講注及評鑑的規劃那是他們的中央跟地方的權限所以我是建議說這個可以保留因為這個法是一種大法盡量不要去動到人家自己本來已經在做的事情那你寫了以後"},{"start":9394.758,"end":9417.4,"text":"我還講雞毛當令箭,很多以後將來就是這樣衍生出來的,會滋生很多的問題。那可能,所以這個部分也經過曲水一段長時間的那個的討論,應該也不至於影響到我們要推這個法裡面的。我們是大概都是盡量以鼓勵的性質啦。所以也不是說只有那個"},{"start":9418.564,"end":9444.918,"text":"在長照啦什麼那個地方評鑑才需要拿掉我想這個精神上恐怕也是要那個也是要考量他整個法的精神齁如果太多的那個恐怕這個法就會很多的更會陷入爭議喔可能因為後面就像有的提出來的像EJ提出來的就他們覺得也不要弄得"},{"start":9446.334,"end":9463.987,"text":"就提這個獎勵及規劃嘛,把他吊,像這樣。那這個可能,可能行政部門你們部門要針對這個法的精神,來做一點那個法的精神在哪裡。"},{"start":9465.305,"end":9476.118,"text":"是站得住這個法,其實就可以把我們這個法的價值呈現出來。你那些憑證那些憑證,為什麼那些拿到,那些沒拿到,你告訴我,會很複雜。"},{"start":9480.143,"end":9501.019,"text":"謝謝,謝謝趙委員吼,那我們還是想感謝委員的一個支持,還是希望能夠說在這個法令裡面來講是等於是教導民眾來對健康飲食營造整個環境所以四大面向裡面來講都是我們推動這個健康飲食促進法的一個基本的精神所在"},{"start":9501.579,"end":9522.009,"text":"那中央跟地方的話透過我們的考評指標其實就涵蓋在我們跟地方的一個協調跟溝通上面所以這裡的福島規劃平建的計畫我們是覺得說可以改成福島那比較柔性也可以達到目的安安請委員能夠支持所以的意思就是變成福島講住及福島講住及福島"},{"start":9528.476,"end":9555.785,"text":"好吧主席那那個第21條他這裡還是叫做評鑑或輔導等一下全部我們會處理好好大概全部評鑑在適當的機會拿掉那如果覺得好像要留下一點輔導的也許可以留下來我想是不是這樣比較好啦吼也也的確是吼要的要那個關心跟幫忙啦吼"},{"start":9557.674,"end":9575.342,"text":"我們都是這個法基本是政府要出來幫忙大家幫忙各單位來推動這個可能用這種精神會比較更好一點好那我們就原則上就是先公示這樣子那等一下就再來確認那第五條"},{"start":9577.335,"end":9602.84,"text":"第五條也就是說他特別明定劉委員還有吳琴也特別明定地方主管機關這個也建議就一定修訂那民眾黨所提的也就相關第一團裡面所提的這個國民營養工作法規等等相關的一些指導細節那個也是在相關的條文裡面其實就已經有涵蓋在裡面了所以我們也覺得說這個部分"},{"start":9603.62,"end":9619.808,"text":"也不需要在這裡特別再把它調整出來。那他在第六民眾黨提案裡面來講,第六項有一個地方各目的事業機關機關必須要叫經會的編列跟督導及執行國民營養工作的協調。還有第"},{"start":9622.71,"end":9644.146,"text":"第二項就是地方國民營養改善的經費是編列及轄區國民營養改善計畫。這裡要牽扯到營養這個經費的一個爭取齁跟編列的方式。那我們是建立說還是維持行政的版本。那剛剛提到的中央的那個評鑑已經拿掉。所以是被徵求委員的同意我們這裡也把評鑑改成輔導計畫。好輔導評鑑改成輔導計畫齁這個大概有共識。然後"},{"start":9649.878,"end":9675.594,"text":"我們尊重行政院啦,因為我想所有的法裡面都有一些專業的人想要去爭取基金或爭取預算,出了變預算,這個我們內心都很期待,但是我們過去也做了這麼多的法齁,要做的事情行政機關就會幫你去做啦,就幫你變預算,最重要是我們各專業團體你要提計,你要去建立計畫,我相信只要有計畫,"},{"start":9678.477,"end":9703.738,"text":"時間題應該就有預算,就會有預算的跟著來。時間規劃的預算,哇大家這個在我以前的經驗裡面是在行政院是比較難同意這樣的處理方式,所以要請大家諒解。我還是請那個專業團體能夠盡量提出裡面對人民健康有什麼想法的一個建議,我相信"},{"start":9705.101,"end":9722.271,"text":"國建署或是衛福部一定會從善如流來把這個大家的想法弄進來然後當然有計畫他們就會去爭取預算那在預算後面我們立法院也會全力來支持好不好我們就按照行政院的一個修正的一個"},{"start":9723.44,"end":9744.205,"text":"講述及輔導計劃以外就按照行政案版這樣公示好第六等下我就直接直接說通過通過通過我不要再練一遍了就按照這樣子做了第六條在進入行政案版第六條之前這裡吳玉琴委員在有增訂了第六條吼就包括吳玉琴委員"},{"start":9745.925,"end":9768.215,"text":"還有林淑穩委員還有莊敬成委員以及時代力量他特別在希望能夠增訂第六條主管機關及各目的社會主管機關應逐年編列預算辦理有關營養及健康飲食之促進以衛教先導之工作那口頭跟大家報告一下其實我們今年的"},{"start":9769.415,"end":9788.283,"text":"議算是在營養推廣的部分那邊內的1.2億那明年已經成長到2.3億剛提到的我們行政部門一定會依據我們的需求跟規劃那會依行政院規定的議算法來提出爭取所以是不是建立可以不用爭內好好我委員來"},{"start":9795.547,"end":9822.438,"text":"來,第二條,第六條嘛對,我們的第六條是本席的第六條還有林淑溫委員的第六條莊敬成委員還有時代力量黨團的提案這個部分我想剛剛在談預算的增加預算的部分在前面中央的跟地方的角色都有提到但是我們沒有特別把它列在那邊是因為我們的條文會在第六條單獨列出來"},{"start":9824.119,"end":9844.273,"text":"那在各法裡面尤其這種所謂宣誓性的條文還是表明政府的態度是逐年便利預算或寬類預算其實在過去我們在訂定口腔健康法原住民健康法都有類似的定法就是我們宣誓這個其實真的是宣誓"},{"start":9845.194,"end":9845.734,"text":"議員吳玉琴等16人擬具"},{"start":9862.907,"end":9886.854,"text":"我到時候還是要來檢視你們有沒有編但是說真的這個我覺得是應該可以照我們的看是因逐年編列預算或寬列預算我覺得這個部分應該要放進去因為這個是一個政府的宣誓第六條我們的第六條行政院沒有這個條文在第13頁"},{"start":9890.053,"end":9892.054,"text":"主席有看到我們的是第6條。嗯。"},{"start":9919.952,"end":9948.436,"text":"我知道行政院對這個每年編列預算我相信所有的法大家都很希望寫這個而且一定也有很多專業團體遊說但是問題是我們要站在行政院的立場以前我們也處理過好多次像中醫藥發展法他們極端要去處理要去處理這個基金跟預算"},{"start":9951.054,"end":9978.041,"text":"那個不是基金有困難預算本來就會編嘛有需要再寫嗎?就是宣誓嘛我說主席現在補充一下過去我們在討論各個法裡面最困難是基金的設立啦基金的設立因為財政紀律法框住了所以有它設立的困難所以我們當時包括原住民健康法或是中醫藥基金也設了可是那個實質的意義不太大"},{"start":9979.301,"end":9994.635,"text":"那這個其實是一個完全宣誓那有哪個法有寫出說主人編列預算寬列預算的有口腔健康法跟原住民健康法基本上是宣誓性的就是用寬列預算那這個要編給誰當然是執行這個業務啊"},{"start":9997.116,"end":10018.437,"text":"什麼業務?是執行這個業務?哪一個業務?剛剛營養及健康飲食促進的衛教?也許是整體的業務?整體的業務啊,剛剛署長也提到說今年編了1.2億嘛,明年要編2.3億嘛,所以他們在公務預算相關的預算裡面都會做一些編列嘛。"},{"start":10023.96,"end":10044.62,"text":"我們不規範他,他還在編列啦其實我覺得就是說在我們推動這個法案的情形之下我們也是希望能夠比較明確的是他不只是只有一個標的性的說我們該怎麼做而是實際上具體要怎麼做包括編列預算都應該含進去來達到我們希望能夠促成的營養和健康飲食方面的促進和衛生宣導的工作"},{"start":10045.28,"end":10073.806,"text":"其實吳委員有解釋這並不是我們首創的啦其實在其他法案上也有大家的概念所以不只是希望能夠大方向上能夠來做推動修法實際上我們也希望有一個配套就是要來逐年編列預算來執行我覺得這是大家的共同的期待啦那也希望部會這邊能夠考慮一下謝謝那可不可以我也不反我實際上我不反對喔那個只是說尊重行政院的一個好處理啦那如果大家有一人是不是有可能會加在哪一個部門的後面這樣子"},{"start":10076.172,"end":10089.081,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案"},{"start":10105.56,"end":10130.611,"text":"你要看的話怎麼樣跟委員報告就是這一條條文剛剛衛福部這邊已經有說明就是這幾年其實都有逐年編列預算而且113年正式是大幅增長那其實這一條條文上它其實沒有違反就是預算法的一些或是財計法的相關規定那我們尊重衛福部的意見以上"},{"start":10131.65,"end":10157.53,"text":"主席部是比較尊重衛生部的意見,但是委員也有意見嘛,所以那個有沒有辦法在第五條裡面來琢磨一點你現在突然多一條這個齁,好像稍微那個為什麼不再說在已經在做的人"},{"start":10158.874,"end":10181.246,"text":"他們在做這麼多的時候應該要去編預算這樣子我是覺得都可以啦我們可不可以提個建議案看看好不好剛剛的第四條我為什麼會這樣提我們當第四條已經通過本來不應該再回去啦為了不這樣條文因為當然還沒有做確認嘛是不是在"},{"start":10186.309,"end":10208.149,"text":"在第四條的部分吼一、二款下面那麼針對一個叫做經費之編類與執行那三、四、五、六就往後延啦。要不要委員同不同意這樣的做法。這樣我們就不用增加條文。向次就增加管制就好了。阿這只有中央主管機關嘛。阿第五條就是地方嘛。"},{"start":10213.999,"end":10230.758,"text":"在第五條的在第一項以下就是寫了一個叫做第二款寫建委之編類與執行第三款地方各務第四頁主管機關建委之編類之督導及協調然後其餘的二三四五往後延"},{"start":10233.695,"end":10259.353,"text":"我覺得這樣可能也不錯啦就是至少有把很多專業團體的沒有很多啦有一兩個專業團體很期待主席我還是要提一下就是說我們各委員的版本都早先於行政院的版本所以我們有一些條文多出來我覺得是正常的因為我們是在你們之前就提出來了"},{"start":10259.893,"end":10288.036,"text":"那這個條文其實在立法的技術上面我想議事組應該可以協助啦我們議事人員可以協助那就是順下來而已我們先待會討論還是照行政院的條文來討論但是未來就是由主席授權議事組把那個條次做調整這個不會亂因為我們後面還有要增加的條文好像我們現在就不能增加那我們後面條文怎麼增加呢所以我覺得這個部分條文增加你剛"},{"start":10289.837,"end":10317.694,"text":"署長說放在四條第四條中央跟地方的職責我覺得那個感覺是沒有去凸顯了對這個這部法對預算的編列的誠意啦因為其實我們的寫法其實是很清楚讓大家看到我們有編列預算而且主任都在編列預算那我覺得這個是在各法其實很多法都這樣寫沒有違反財政紀律法所以寫上去對你們壓力也沒有那麼大啦"},{"start":10318.434,"end":10346.581,"text":"但是讓我們對這件事這個立法感覺或是讓大家看到欸真的有啊有啊要有誠意啊要做這些事情啊所以我覺得這個應該是我覺得放上去沒有問題增加一個條文沒有問題啊這個到時候就授權我們議事處來協助我們把那個條文順下來不會影響啦那個齁如果剛剛大家研究一下不然就如果第六條把它放到第八條齁把在這一張的最後面齁"},{"start":10348.477,"end":10371.236,"text":"應該是應該是比較順啦因為把整個都談好了以後再來談這個這樣子好吧那個我以為你們行政部門不是都溝通好了嗎不反對喔那如果我放在後面第8條行政部門你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":10372.959,"end":10392.743,"text":"這樣的用詞可以嗎?都可以,可以啦,我們會尊重立法院的多數...好啦,那就連著上放到第8條好了,好不好?增加到第8條好了,這樣比較不用影響那麼多。主管機關齁,那個幾個目的十二的主管機關應主點編列預算辦理有關營養及...這也不錯啦,是促進及衛教宣導工作。好。"},{"start":10404.194,"end":10430.979,"text":"文字就是按照這樣子嘛,把它弄到第8條而已嘛,這樣前面省得再去動它啦。好,我們這條是第...我先確認這個弄到第8條啦,那我們剛剛現在在講第6條嘛,第6條結束了嗎?那要不要...重頭嗎?好好好"},{"start":10433.619,"end":10460.905,"text":"第一個名稱就是按照行政院版通過第一張總則按照行政院通過然後第一條因為行政院認得這樣的名稱是OK的所以就第一條也是按照行政院版通過第二條在第五款營養調查這裡加上營養及飲食調查我想這個部分有些委員都這樣的建議"},{"start":10462.172,"end":10480.658,"text":"新機關也從善如流所以第二條大概是這樣子修正通過然後第三條是就因為這是主觀機關這個大概沒有什麼爭議就第三條就這樣通過案行政法通過第四條也案行政法有修正修正對講述及輔導之規劃修正通過"},{"start":10483.407,"end":10505.761,"text":"講述及輔導之規劃嗎?主席對不起第四條我因為我的第三款還沒有處理所以也是未來要新增的條文所以我才說第四條可能要先保留因為我不是21是我的12條後面會提到有關特殊飲食的部分特殊需求飲食的部分"},{"start":10508.336,"end":10511.338,"text":"第16條會有處理看一下因為16條所以我們第4條就修正修正後通過獎勵及輔導之規劃"},{"start":10535.953,"end":10545.748,"text":"然後第五條也是一樣講述及輔導計畫之定定這是一個地方一個中央就修正通過第六條現在在討論來請說"},{"start":10549.713,"end":10560.538,"text":"第六條那因為第一個當然也是地方這個部分也是希望能夠以體力來處理那謝謝我們民眾黨團還有消委員說各級機關應該要設立營養及健康專業的專責單位那因為考量市社"},{"start":10568.422,"end":10592.548,"text":"非常廣泛在執行上有一些困難所以還是希望能夠以專業的人員來處理這件事情所以我們還是希望說指甲縣以我們行政院的版本因為我們現在版本就是以指定營養相關專業單位或人員來在社區裡面來執行那目前我們也是在社區裡面廣設這個社區營養推廣中心及"},{"start":10597.549,"end":10621.766,"text":"聘任專業的營養師來做從事相關的營養工作所以我們是希望能夠這個部分能夠維持行政院的版本也希望各位人能夠同意雖然我的版本不太一樣但是我後來還是支持行政院的版本因為行政院版本後面的說明其實相當的完整不曉得第6條大家有沒有意見來請"},{"start":10624.656,"end":10651.546,"text":"就是我想第6條有關營養這個相關專業單位或人員這個部分能不能請國界署也再說明清楚到底指的是什麼因為如果現在有的這個地方是社區營養中心它到底是一個什麼樣的單位是我們署裡面或鼓勵地方政府設的一個單位那"},{"start":10652.526,"end":10667.93,"text":"那叫專業單位嗎?還是一個專責單位?那我是覺得這裡我們在各法在訂定的時候其實比較多是談專責單位或人員因為不敢說一定要有一個專責但有一個專責單位或人員這樣子"},{"start":10670.491,"end":10685.394,"text":"比較是一般我們常看到的文字那這裡又特別寫專業單位我就有點混淆了你知道嗎所以能不能再說明清楚到底這個部分是什麼樣的專業團體專業單位因為如果以政府部門應該是一個專責單位或是專業人員我們沒有設定一定要專業專責單位但是人員或人員是OK的所以能不能說明清楚一下"},{"start":10695.456,"end":10719.663,"text":"應該是這樣說為了推廣社區的營養因為各機構比如醫療機構相關的機構或者是裡面其實也有設了相關的營養師來做輔導為了讓社區民眾廣泛能夠接受避免說在醫院裡面通常都到疾病以後才能夠接受到營養的教育所以其實在社區裡面推動營養是一件很重要的事情"},{"start":10720.263,"end":10741.359,"text":"所以我們從106年開始就在補助地方政府就是由地方政府來辦理這件事情那麼他必須要在他社區裡面來辦理這個社區營養推廣中心然後聘任專業的營養師來做這件事情那相關的經費跟人員的費用那麼是由中央編列預算來補助好"},{"start":10748.263,"end":10772.014,"text":"專業單位但是在局裡面政府機關過才有專責所以我們是用專業的人來處理這件事這個其實吳委員是想了解這個這個專業到底是怎麼樣的情況其實這個就是到幾年前我們在審公共衛生司法的時候我們一直請教營養師你們在社區有沒有哪些是你們的專業但是營養師協會都沒有出來"},{"start":10773.682,"end":10801.649,"text":"給太多針對那個法有什麼意見那現在就會碰到這個問題有些事情是誰要做那你現在這個姿勢體大了啦這個真的不是在這邊你能夠我認得不太可能你會講得很清楚一定要跟相關的部門公共衛生室已經有這些東西很多都是公共衛生室已經在他的當時的八個還是九個業務範圍裡面的其中有喔那怎麼去區隔"},{"start":10803.47,"end":10814.126,"text":"這個就是我們立法常常過去在我也是很擔心的嘛就是大家壓來壓去弄到最後到底是怎麼樣這樣子那全民都可以做"},{"start":10815.294,"end":10833.744,"text":"不過這個是全民都可以健康啦,全民都可以營養就沒有問題。也許我們這個比較用開放的胸襟來看這個啦,因為每一個專類都有他自己的法嘛,營養師有營產司法、公會師也有公會司法的嘛。對不對,我們這個地方是站在人民的立場,來讓法案能夠更寬廣的來做這個讓我們"},{"start":10837.786,"end":10860.103,"text":"政府在國外也會符合世界潮流也會站得住腳我們也是往這方面那未來很多很多的國家的發展政策也是都會很顧及到這個層面所以我覺得盡量讓他寬廣也不要設的太到時候會自己會影響到自己也不好我覺得這個部分可能第六條是不是"},{"start":10868.109,"end":10881.746,"text":"行政院這個是比較寬廣,比較宏觀一點,那至於說以後要怎麼寫他的業務內容,是不是我們好好的再去再細則,是再細則嗎?還是執法?這個會有執法或細則嗎?會有細則"},{"start":10888.051,"end":10910.338,"text":"對阿細則嘛好不好自己好好的定義喔請相關的單位都要來談喔看怎麼樣共同攜手合作不用擔心那些服務不完啦那些服務的範圍服務不完大家都很有機會來發揮手長不用擔心啦再問最後一次專業單位跟專責單位的差別在哪裡"},{"start":10911.734,"end":10918.816,"text":"專責是我組織裏面政府部門有一個部門阿專業呢?專業單位的概念是什麼?專業就是這個團體就是專業的團體在執行的這個當然就是專業的團體是這個是一個專業團體對專業單位單位我們是主席"},{"start":10939.352,"end":10965.621,"text":"主席這個好像署長越解釋我越模糊了齁如果那個社區營養推廣中心應該是已經很明確就是我們補助地方政府來申請設置社區營養推廣中心嘛那我真的也去查了我們現在雖然是說22縣市都有社區營養推廣中心但是現在這個中心全部都是在衛生所內"},{"start":10966.761,"end":10974.099,"text":"而且已經從2018年推廣到現在。署長請問我們現在有多少有多少社區營養推廣中心?"},{"start":10977.02,"end":11004.754,"text":"四十三個社區營養推廣中心六十四位營養師是,所以我們現在您剛講的要廣為推廣,如果只是期待社區營養推廣中心,不可以啦因為你現在這麼多衛生所,你從2018年推廣到現在才四十幾個而且全部都在衛生所內耶所以我不曉得他為什麼要跌床駕屋在衛生所內還要在設一個社區營養推廣中心,這個其實就是"},{"start":11005.274,"end":11030.722,"text":"那個吳委員一直在講我們到底他是一個專責單位專責單位感覺他是一個中心沒錯是專責單位可是他又在衛生所內做的是他的專業業務所以我真的覺得越聽越模糊嘞好啦我想這個專責單位會會會會設定下去齁我就覺得像護理員護理人員、低端護士我以前當過衛生所主任啊低端護士的經過營養的一個訓練"},{"start":11032.369,"end":11044.248,"text":"也做很多的提請很多教育促進活動嘛。啊現在阿拜你如果太嚴重我說你這條太嚴重大家都不用做了啦。對不對?所以我覺得這個如果沒有這條如果沒有開放一點齁"},{"start":11045.532,"end":11050.973,"text":"你會發生你會發生寸步燃起我剛剛提到特別說為什麼我們剛剛這個謝謝陳委員的說明我們也覺得全國368個鄉鎮那368鄉鎮這個民眾這麼多那麼這樣的速度有一點慢所以我剛剛也特別提到了我們明年度就倍增這個計畫因為從64位倍增到124位"},{"start":11074.638,"end":11096.453,"text":"所以我們剛剛提到的為竹聯編列預算也是個道理那怎麼樣能夠提供全民更廣泛更能夠得到營養的一個教育跟推廣那這個東西所以剛剛提到協助委員的說明我們當然不希望把它限時在一個地方那未來也會鼓勵相關的各機關各的專業的人來幫忙所以這個是我們政府補助的相關的專業的單位來做處理所以這個是希望未來"},{"start":11104.979,"end":11125.615,"text":"每五萬人都有一個營養師來服務。辛苦了。好,那個,我覺得行政院提的這個齁,比較寬廣,而且專業單位是比較,只要有授訓的話,你專職單位你設,你訂不完啦。而且會被人家攻擊說你怎麼訂那麼少。全國都早就在做的啊。"},{"start":11126.653,"end":11152.515,"text":"第一段論述幾十年來就在做的啊你不能一下子就剝奪人家的一個那種工作嘛或者那個已經貢獻民眾那麼多的事情我是不曉得現在在社區上還有哪些在做這些工作啦但是他總是要有專業啦要尊重專業沒有專業大概也不變總是要說一堆訊嘛你看你不要前後矛盾嘛你後面都在寫"},{"start":11153.652,"end":11165.105,"text":"在寫都要鼓勵大家全民哪個單位都要來做都要來參與你還用很多獎勵結果又如果又自己限制到誰不能做那把以前可以做的通通不能做我覺得這個法也不好因為這個法應該是更寬廣所以那個我"},{"start":11171.071,"end":11191.678,"text":"當然吳委員然後陳委員他們想要把它釐清如果是寬的我們就支持啦因為我覺得我們就是要釐清專業單位跟專責單位的差異性而如果這邊是訂的是寬的我們是支持的專業單位應該是比較寬啦齁對不對齁好那如果這樣的話我們第六條就按照行政院版通過謝謝第七條"},{"start":11194.963,"end":11216.222,"text":"第七條謝謝大家的關心我們只要是針對我們在執行營養的時候在中央會設立這個營養執行會那我們會邀請相關的專家團體那各位委員有幾個委員吼有一些包括委員的人數啊這個這個團體的代表啊等等都有提出不同的意見那也"},{"start":11216.883,"end":11236.77,"text":"也有民眾黨所提的包括這個諮詢會的相關的一些任務等都有說的一些相關的規範那開會的次數都有一些明定所以呢我們是覺得說因為我們目前寫的也許稍微有點簡略我們參賽各委員的意見中整一下"},{"start":11237.25,"end":11244.855,"text":"有關對象的部分是中央食品管理機關應邀請民間團體、專家、學者、食品業者、農產業者、消費者及兒少代表召開營養諮詢會。那營養諮詢會的政策調查研究"},{"start":11259.585,"end":11281.971,"text":"是麻煩一下消費者及兒少代表召開營養諮詢會諮詢營養與健康飲食促進政策調查研究及其他有關事項其中任意性別委員之人數不得少於總數三分之一做以下之修正希望各位能夠支持"},{"start":11282.971,"end":11311.681,"text":"那關於次數目前我們的委員會是每年召開兩次那請林委員發表意見一下對的因為你原來的這個條文寫得不夠清楚就是包括你剛剛現在修正的修正的應該要給我們那個文字內容因為我的修正東西大概也是朝著這方向就是把"},{"start":11312.501,"end":11337.151,"text":"一些相關的代表性的團體或是一些專家還有一些各方的代表能夠納入這個會議裡面把它講得清楚一點所以你剛剛念的這個修正是你們現在修正出來的我們就會在這裡就按照這個"},{"start":11339.795,"end":11339.975,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":11361.463,"end":11384.647,"text":"我想說兩個部分一個部分是兒少代表部分我是支持啦因為我覺得還是跟大家的整體的營養觀念還有營養的推進其實有很大的息息的相關所以我們是支持吧願意來支持來兒少代表納入但是消費者代表這件事情想請教一下消費者代表的定義是什麼因為我想每一個人在這個社會上都會是一個消費者那怎麼樣叫做消費者代表聽起來非常的模糊和空泛"},{"start":11385.256,"end":11411.612,"text":"所以想問一下說消費者代表因為他並不是一個族群他就是全台灣的人都是消費者代表這是一個很好的問題啦齁這個可能要解釋一下我們大概會朝向所謂的消費者代表的團體啦那由他們推薦消費者團體欸你不要衝到尾啦我們營養的營養那個阿姨要收消費者只是要賠你啊這個我想是談營養跟飲食跟價格沒有關係啦"},{"start":11413.432,"end":11437.961,"text":"主席,這邊就是國建署現在把兒少代表好像各種代表對象群都進來,那老人要不要代表?就怪了嘿,對啊我覺得這個地方就是好像加很多代表都好像應該可是好像漏掉了一些會不會怪一漏萬啊?"},{"start":11448.47,"end":11468.421,"text":"這個齁其實應該行政部我們有很多很多類似的條文嘛,他們都是怎麼寫嘛。齁,那不要自己創造它很特別這樣也怪怪的齁,有沒有比較要去參照我們過去大家智慧的結晶出來的,那我們再做爭取大家的意見來做一點修改。阿不然你先想一下先想一下齁。"},{"start":11470.552,"end":11475.134,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案"},{"start":11499.539,"end":11516.227,"text":"委員有建議,可是你一掛上去就變成掛一漏萬的感覺啊。就,對吧?那不然就是維持延來,對吧?如果到底,哎呀行。"},{"start":11519.267,"end":11536.774,"text":"對啦,你如果都要表列出來,正面表列出來怕會有怪異漏亂的問題所以我的修正動議其實是增加第二項就是說全項營養與健康飲食促進政策攸關國民生活中央主管機關應採行適當的公民參與"},{"start":11540.695,"end":11567.804,"text":"以機智、廣詢意見納入營養諮詢會議討論。是不是用這樣比較...現在對林委員這個覺得怎麼樣?我是覺得也不錯啦。你們覺得這樣有沒有影響到你們的整個核心思想?我還是以你們的核心思想為重。委員都是盡量來幫你們滋潤得更好。"},{"start":11570.777,"end":11593.505,"text":"這樣會影響嗎?因為看起來他這個寫比較讓你們不會影響到怪異樂患的感覺,他只是要多加強一些民眾的公民參與嘛。公民參與現在是所有政府裡面很重要的一環啦。可以嗎?不然叫林委員這樣可以嗎?給這張。這張喔,看看喔。"},{"start":11601.101,"end":11602.963,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具、「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案案 案。"},{"start":11623.211,"end":11642.085,"text":"目前行政院都有開放政府也有眾開講的參與那這些建議都會到我們討論案裡面來講那要不要在這裡列我們沒有意見了那個委員這樣的建議其實對行政機關的執行面是沒有什麼特別的影響而已"},{"start":11645.1,"end":11666.083,"text":"對啦沒有什麼特別影響搞不好有加分的效果啦齁那也不錯啦齁只是說有需要寫前項營養及健康那一句話嗎還是齁第一句話還是說直接中央執管應用採行那個適當公民有些事有些在條文裡面是沒有必要寫去解釋他的原因啦"},{"start":11667.935,"end":11673.76,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案。」吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案。」吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案。」吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案。」"},{"start":11693.844,"end":11718.025,"text":"符合世界潮流的感覺,大家潮流的感覺啦齁。這樣可以嗎?保證?這樣好啦齁?沒有問題。好,那第七條就照委員林惠洲等三人修正...再修正?修正統一,修正統復。沒有啊,但是他跌估會賣啦,我發現沒需要這麼多啦。對啊,就是再修正統復。"},{"start":11719.259,"end":11741.315,"text":"再修正通過修正同意修正通過謝謝林委員這麼卓越的見解我們的第一項裡面還有其中任一性別委員之人數這個要有修正加兩個委員加三個是委員之人數"},{"start":11748.017,"end":11767.804,"text":"因為時任的關係我們不要再那個趕快打一下其中瑞麗姓北委員的人數齁還有下面增加這個齁所以我的我剛剛宣布的是什麼來"},{"start":11769.895,"end":11792.952,"text":"沒有,再重新一次第七條,照行政院提案及委員林維哲等三人修正同意修正通過就按照這樣子好不好好,謝謝我們來看第八條嗎?第八條就是要加上那個剛剛吳委員提的那個嗎?好,第八條就照委員吳玉琴等"},{"start":11794.929,"end":11823.194,"text":"委員吳玉琴等委員林時溫等時代力量黨團提案第6條他們提案的第6條通過這樣好不好好,這樣就在第8條加進去稍等一下好不好稍等一下部長來他應該是在第二章之前面嘛所以第8條應該是這樣然後才進到第二章現在要到第二章了這樣比較貴氣啦而且這個有先示作用啦"},{"start":11826.263,"end":11853.5,"text":"那個現在這個已經第一張看起來蠻完整的啦感謝大家那第二張確保健康飲食這個大家沒有意見嗎那就通過這個叫章名嗎第二章的章名就是確保健康飲食好就通過第八條現在變成第九條了"},{"start":11861.874,"end":11870.634,"text":"那個行政院把他第八條了吼來第九條來行政院沒有行政部門說明一下"},{"start":11872.417,"end":11892.238,"text":"這一條只要是對於我們定期應該定期辦理營養的調查研究建制食品營養成分的資料庫那有關劉委員吳玉琴委員特別也說明說這個調查研究必須要委託這調查的狀況還有細節調查的結果必須要上網來公告公民眾來參來這個"},{"start":11897.082,"end":11922.334,"text":"參與調查對象、項目、細節、行程等寫得非常非常詳細,非常謝謝委員的一些建議。民眾黨版本也列示這樣的情形,把相關的細節寫得很詳細,所以相關的委員都非常的盡心盡力為我們希望能夠把國民營養調查做得更好。所以我們是不是說,我們做了一個修正動議,希望能夠把"},{"start":11923.234,"end":11947.926,"text":"定期辦理營養調查前面加了一個即發佈就是中央主管機關應定期辦理即發佈營養調查研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫那相關的立法說明的部分在促前行政院來做相關的調整文字可不可以"},{"start":11951.365,"end":11977.639,"text":"這個林委員有提一個修正動議我這個第8條也是有增加一個第二項前項營養調查研究對象應包含植物性飲食我的意思就是說現在針對這種營養成分這些這個調查這些那其實現在這個素食者其實也蠻多的就是說"},{"start":11978.86,"end":11994.821,"text":"他們的營養成分跟不是素食者所要飲食的這些項目品項都不一樣是不是要增加這一個部分我是提供這樣的建議"},{"start":11995.882,"end":12011.133,"text":"因為這些都是要當作將來的一個指引嘛所以怎麼吃才能營養均衡但是素食者吃的跟我們一般吃的可能他的比如說他的這個蛋白質來源跟我們不一樣啊"},{"start":12012.394,"end":12039.401,"text":"我們可能從魚啊、從肉這些取得蛋白質來那素食者他可能不是從這邊取得蛋白質來是不是有必要加這一部分這個提供參考請這個衛福部這邊做說明謝謝請說明一下謝謝林委員的建議其實跟您報告一下目前這個調查的內容我們並沒有排除這個食品飲食的調查已經包括在裡面了所以"},{"start":12041.201,"end":12044.928,"text":"可以不寫,我們也會做這件事情。所以是不是前委員支持?"},{"start":12052.301,"end":12079.948,"text":"在第八條的部分就是我看到很多委員包括時代力量黨團都有特別提到我想大家有幾個疑慮就是在於調查的對象調查的內容還有調查誰來執行這個調查大家都很多很多的討論了那我也理解說現在我們在談營養及健康飲食促進法比較是一個上位的法案我們可能很難直接在這邊細項定到說應該要有內容但是不是能夠有一個比較通範的方式是比如說前項的這些資料庫以及研究調查方案應由中央主管"},{"start":12080.909,"end":12101.929,"text":"機關認定之之類的方式來做處理因為我覺得大家的期待還是希望能夠比較具體的知道這個研究方案會涵蓋到哪些這些資料庫應該涵蓋哪些那有很多很多的細節必須要來做討論那不宜在現在直接在法條上面匡列進去的話是不是能夠有一個執法的概念能夠另外處理之這樣我覺得是比較完整性好王偉的意見行政部門覺得怎麼樣多多的寫一下那個"},{"start":12105.831,"end":12107.953,"text":"應該不用寫出來啦由中央書館定制就好了"},{"start":12132.802,"end":12153.458,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案"},{"start":12160.495,"end":12172.002,"text":"前項食品營養成分資料庫相關規範及委託相關內容等等下我看一下應該是前項食品營養成分資料庫相關規範"},{"start":12174.997,"end":12195.506,"text":"得委託有關機關學校或營養健康相關專業團體之規範由中央主管機關另訂之。應該是,我等會修正一下吼。是不是可以這樣寫。前線的營養調查研究及建置食品營養成分資料庫由中央主管訂之。相關規範。"},{"start":12210.135,"end":12227.505,"text":"營養調查研究及建制食品營養成分資料庫等相關事項由中央主管定之。相關規範由中央主管定之。相關規範由主管機關定之喔?"},{"start":12232.483,"end":12239.35,"text":"應該就是把前項的那個部分啦,就是營養調查研究及建制食品營養成分資料庫。"},{"start":12264.861,"end":12279.692,"text":"兩條到最後要不要通?中屬館應定期辦理營養調查研究及建設食品營養分支資料。這個定期發布嗎?其實委託機構要這樣寫"},{"start":12298.83,"end":12319.076,"text":"由中央主管定資要不要拿掉?因為是在下面的那個對啦,那邊前面的那個拿掉全項食品營養資料庫不只,那個齁,全項不是,全項調查研究建置食品營養成分資料庫規範由中央主管定資"},{"start":12320.66,"end":12348.094,"text":"好啊,研究上是這樣子啦,把它修字、文字好一點。要不要相關規範?全項調查研究建制食品營養成分資料庫等相關規範由中央主管機關定制,這樣好不好?等嘛,相關規範由中央主管定制嘛。"},{"start":12351.144,"end":12371.598,"text":"規範是不是應該會有一個逗號比較好規範要一個逗號規範要一個逗號看不看定那個定是用安定的定定是用安定的定應該兩個是都可以"},{"start":12375.97,"end":12395.827,"text":"來華貴說明一下華貴第二項的目的可能要先釐清一下想要訂定的是什麼樣子的規範如果是指第一項的那些內容原則上都是由中央主管機關在處理了所以那些規範本來就是主管機關自己可以做的不需要在第二項另外再授權訂一個什麼內容"},{"start":12400.041,"end":12406.854,"text":"第一項已經中央書館機關在做的事情了嘛對不對?那我們會不會想補充什麼?"},{"start":12411.558,"end":12439.605,"text":"王委員不在我覺得我們不好意思因為我們就順著行政院的版本所以我們自己的版本其實都分兩條處理那剛剛如果在談如果這個營養的一個食品營養成分的一個分析都由中央自己定的那就沒有委外的問題而且他也是已經行之多年了吧對啊所以沒有在相關的這個還要委託民間剛剛那個王委員是"},{"start":12440.845,"end":12463.387,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12466.533,"end":12485.213,"text":"我們看一下時代力量的版本啦齁,我是覺得一些聲音也不錯啊,並得委託有,你前面去做這個事情嘛齁,然後由委託有關機關、學校及營養或營養健康相關專業團體為之並得嘛,不是說叫你,這團反而你中央不用自己做"},{"start":12486.34,"end":12509.063,"text":"你可以委託專業團體學校去做大學可以幫你做大學營養系什麼是不是這樣反而我覺得實在力量提案這個這個會比較忽悠大家的想法你看怎麼那個市長沒客氣喔你沒什麼想要跟我們說啊不然你現在在那裡在那裡點什麼點我現在不在那裡點什麼"},{"start":12510.8,"end":12530.892,"text":"到底要訂什麼規範是什麼規範?這有什麼好規範的?就是在發布這個營養調查研究建制食品的那個資料庫啊?啊這個從我學術的立場我就覺得你可以去委託委託某一個專門的單位國務院也可以你也可以去委託"},{"start":12532.182,"end":12544.49,"text":"福倫大學食品營養系、北伊營養健康系等你齁,去相關的專業團體去為之。這個應該是沒有什麼衝突吧。這是我的想法,抱歉。阿,這樣,這樣,你給我寫規範什麼訂資我才看,我看沒什麼意思啊。"},{"start":12557.236,"end":12565.282,"text":"如果大家同意的話我們也覺得可行啦我唸一篇 中央執管機關應定期辦理及發布營養調查研究及建設食品營養成分資料庫並得委得有關機關學校"},{"start":12587.318,"end":12610.887,"text":"或營養及健康相關專業團體為之。應該是很完整吧?可以,我們沒有意見。好啦,按照這樣通過,好不好?第8條,按照時代力量。莊敬誠委員莊敬誠等21人提案其中及時代力量黨團提案修正通過。好。"},{"start":12612.048,"end":12635.166,"text":"只有第8條齁,來再來我只有第9條,來再來原來的第9條現在第10條這只要是中央政府對於這些營養基準的一個建議那必須要經過執行會的公告那也謝謝也謝謝大家對於這個關心齁那特別在"},{"start":12636.556,"end":12648.772,"text":"吳玉琴委員所說明的他比較細節性的針對每日指南國民營養指標生命期的營養建立及國人膳食營養素參考涉及基準等。那這個"},{"start":12651.341,"end":12668.306,"text":"寫的比較細項那蘇曉慧委員還有張一美委員還有陳建民委員等還有邱太文召委等他有特別提到這個對於急慢性病的對向上對於急慢性病的時候要"},{"start":12669.466,"end":12689.324,"text":"建立這些營養的一個設計的一個基準跟指引那我們是這樣說明針對國民家家族的主責的業務主要是非傳染性疾病那這個急重症包括癌症任何一個糖尿病等等那在臨床上其實他有臨床上的指引"},{"start":12689.964,"end":12715.468,"text":"所以這個狀況主管再去定這個可能跟臨床指引上有一些干擱而且相關的專業團體也是在執行這件事情在法令上我們認為說不需要再另定而且這一部法令只要是對前面的狀況而沒有特定的族群這一部分來特別規範所以是不是請委員能夠支持那我們先這樣的版本"},{"start":12718.543,"end":12737.212,"text":"是這樣子啦 那個蘇委員跟林委員林委員都有寫氣候變遷及環境永續的一個修正動議啦 不曉得蘇委員你有什麼指導好 我想是這樣啦 我們主要這部法案我們這個法案的話其實等於是一個以政府的角度在告訴國人"},{"start":12738.453,"end":12765.815,"text":"什麼樣的飲食是營養的健康的啊是一個建議的態度那我想是這樣隨著時代觀念改變那我們其實最近都在討論的很大一個課題就是永續嘛因為氣候變遷所以要環境永續要做更多的改變其實包括飲食是一個很重要的像素那這個剛剛在講說那這個飲食哇寫到說氣候變遷環境永續那跟飲食會有什麼關係其實第一探就是一個"},{"start":12766.556,"end":12767.016,"text":"議員吳玉琴等16人擬具"},{"start":12794.312,"end":12821.125,"text":"好,那個林委員有沒有,可以嗎?林委員怎麼樣?我的修正動議跟蘇委員的修正動議差不多的意思就是增加了這個第三項在我這邊是第三項就是針對氣候變遷跟環境永續要納入考量提出飲食建議這個在各國大概也都有這樣的立法的先例謝謝"},{"start":12824.943,"end":12825.845,"text":"環境永續這個是一個"},{"start":12837.935,"end":12839.456,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具"},{"start":12868.015,"end":12891.729,"text":"而且我也覺得說我們目前也有一個環境保護部那相關的規範裡面應該也會有相關的一些建議事項這下就是不錯啦 有符合世界潮流啦只是說在這個地方適不適當的問題 來 蘇委員"},{"start":12895.021,"end":12919.157,"text":"我覺得是這樣,其實我本來就已經做了這個附帶決議就是有兩個附帶決議,我有附帶決議其實是在說中央主管機關我的想法是這樣啦,就是我稍微念一下我的這個附帶決議的部分那因為這個溫室氣體24%是來自農牧與排放顯示飲食行為也是造成氣候變遷的原因之一所以中央主管機關在訂的時候應該考慮這個部分"},{"start":12921.559,"end":12935.857,"text":"好我本來是已經寫好了不過我覺得我剛剛對署長齁我是覺得做署長只有說到節能減碳講的一副這都只有跟環境部有關這個說法態度我比較是不能"},{"start":12937.459,"end":12942.544,"text":"我覺得可以再精進一點啦因為人家現在低碳飲食這已經是一個常態一個很很流已經是很普遍popular的這樣子的用法了齁那這個我覺得署長應該是要跟上可能比較好而且飲食是造成這個甚至是推動整個碳排的一個起頭起源"},{"start":12961.181,"end":12988.275,"text":"我覺得這其實我們在環境部的時候講也講更多啊那其實回到這裡來講我覺得一點都沒有偏差所以我可以接受還不進入法不進入法條的文字但是我覺得署長的觀念可能在說法上也許可以下次可以再調整一下署長是比較謙虛啦他是他想得比較多他是一個學問非常好的人那個有點謙虛齁"},{"start":12991.637,"end":13002.074,"text":"那如果沒有寫在這邊你有什麼其他的第二套?那如果市委員跟林委員可以同意這樣用次貸決議的方式?"},{"start":13003.424,"end":13021.411,"text":"的話我們就這樣來處理,你看怎麼樣?好,可以,我們可以接支持院板啦。支持用附帶決議處理啦,可以啦。但是確實我要回應一下我們蘇委員剛剛講的。就是說你食物,這個你要吃哪一些食物?"},{"start":13023.032,"end":13037.61,"text":"這個跟探足機都很有關係啊比如說我們一直在強調這就是說在地在在地食食材為什麼要強調在地食材"},{"start":13038.371,"end":13062.472,"text":"因為碳足跡才能縮短阿這個跟這個環境永續啦這些都有關聯所以不是沒有關聯所以用附帶決議來處理啦好我想這個非常重要齁把這個法帶向我們這個世界級的啦齁感謝兩位也提出來那我們就用附帶決議這個部分等一下會討論到附帶決議嘛齁那是不是我們在這個地方就用"},{"start":13063.553,"end":13089.841,"text":"行政院板通過好不好好感謝主席剛剛有提到那個第10條吼我原本有把那個慢性疾病放進來那那個署長來辦公室溝通的時候期待是把它修正成那個非傳染性疾病啦就我加的他剛剛有一起就已經一起說明的對對對這個我本來想新增但是後來那個署長是覺得說直接在這裡把它加進去是是這個意思嗎還是"},{"start":13093.052,"end":13110.574,"text":"他剛剛有說我這邊有新增第10條這邊他一直...不是啊就是第10條現在這第10條嘛對對對第10條裡面你要記一個非傳染病的那個嘛嘿對對對那個署長我覺得這個因為剛剛我的那個提案說明裡面大概也有特別提到這個可能有必要捏"},{"start":13112.465,"end":13139.598,"text":"因為你說你沒要做重症的對啊我的第10條但是會傳染性的會感染性的對主席主席我們在26頁的我的第12條陳慶民的第10條林淑文的第12條都有提到這一塊所以是要加在那邊嗎還是因為他剛剛有先把我的這個加在這裡所以是要你其實這裡已經有寫了啊現在第10條中央書館計劃因應姓、北、年齡、懷孕及生產"},{"start":13142.029,"end":13152.741,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 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案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健�"},{"start":13386.192,"end":13410.695,"text":"啊這一法有沒有牽涉到這個部分還是只我們只限於這我們各年齡層我們都跟他訂一個營養之營齁這是六歲到十二歲要吃什麼齁啊十二歲到十五歲要吃什麼齁這就年齡嘛性費啊女生這個時候生理期要特別關心吃什麼比較不會痛啊不要過好日子我都沒有意見或懷疑的時候齁但是難道沒有去touch到"},{"start":13412.269,"end":13436.922,"text":"流極性就算了,感染性是其他的,一套慢性病的,健康署就在管理慢性病的啊,不是嗎?慢性病的管理,那其實是因為它是帶有一個疾病嘛,這疾病的類型第一個它多啦,第二個的話,它又可能有comorbidity的問題,就是說共病的問題。"},{"start":13437.862,"end":13467.162,"text":"所以你在這裡寫會寫不完事實上現在執行是什麼就是在醫療的醫療端因為針對你有各種慢性病會給你飲食的建議所以剛剛講指引指的是臨床的指引臨床的營養指引所以這個可能我是建議不要寫會比較好不然的話事情會變成很複雜變成這邊的基準要變一大堆"},{"start":13469.123,"end":13478.773,"text":"又列舉不完你要慢性病、急性病要不要一種慢性病、兩種慢性病的要不要又要分別去定"},{"start":13480.747,"end":13504.585,"text":"會變成處理不完所以我是認為說這個可能在這邊是一個原則上因為要提的是基準嘛基準就是給一般的民眾去使用的至於有其他疾病的那應該就是在臨床上面有一些營養指引去去follow那這個就可以把它比較個別化去做處理"},{"start":13507.944,"end":13533.207,"text":"所以謝謝部長啦,我想部長剛來嘛,總是要尊重他嘛。而且他見識廣博,業力豐富,智慧超人,所以那個他的話我都當為聖經在努力啦。那阿伯這段要寫嗎?那個趙金組長剛剛提的這個要不要在下面?就完全按照NR條文?"},{"start":13536.024,"end":13542.153,"text":"就可以處理。這樣齁?那個陳靜明委員有沒有稍微有點遺憾?"},{"start":13543.729,"end":13572.304,"text":"是真的有啦不過這個主席剛剛特別提到要尊重部長我是不堅持啦但是我是真的覺得說部長剛剛提到要列列不完其實世界衛生組織也有列出來四大NCD而已嘛所以如果是說這個我們也有有四大包括有這個癌症、糖尿病、心血管跟慢性呼吸道疾病這WHO列的四大這個不錯啊對啊啊所以也不會列不完啦我的意思是這樣就是說有符合國際趨勢啊"},{"start":13576.158,"end":13602.99,"text":"主席我們剛剛其實在談的陳教授教我一下齁那四個不錯以後教我一下齁主席剛剛其實我們在談的是說要不要把非傳染性疾病放到第九條來那其實我們的提案是在後面有專則一條所以還要做這樣的選擇對我們後我跟陳靜敏的提案都在後面專門一條對所以我們剛剛的決定是說要不要放在這一條嘛啊不放也要再討論說那要不要專另一條"},{"start":13603.91,"end":13625.516,"text":"要專門一條?我們的提案還沒到還沒處理阿因為我26月裡面對阿所以所以我們要再我們要確認一下等一下我們我看一下26條我們26月的我的版本的第12條陳金敏的第10條林淑溫的第12條陳培宇的第11條欸這要一起討論喔不然再一個要在這裡處理還是要在這裡整理整理"},{"start":13632.025,"end":13642.368,"text":"我等一下又碰到一個要討論喔。二十六月喔。我們這條討論完我們休息十分鐘齁。大家吃一些東西。我們盡量,盡量把握時間齁。我們這個都營養過剩。吃這麼久,吃這麼久一定是營養過剩的。"},{"start":13664.178,"end":13683.137,"text":"我感覺說行政部門先考量齁你等一下再考量到後面26位這個第12條第10條這個部分齁如果你覺得都不需要那統統不需要那如果需要的話你就要考慮要放在這裡獨立一條還是說在這邊就可以把它處理進去會比較不用再一直增加那麼多條齁你給你考慮幾分鐘"},{"start":13739.547,"end":13744.149,"text":"行政部門回應一下你口裡"},{"start":13746.457,"end":13750.501,"text":"覺得通通不需要還是要留在後面還是這裡來加進去有幾個選擇嗎?這一個部分其實是這樣子以吳委員的第12條為例"},{"start":13760.987,"end":13781.38,"text":"因為他要求的是中央主管機關去定這個指引基本上定指引是可行但是是不是由中央主管去定這會有一些要去思考的因為在食物上面的運作的話"},{"start":13783.615,"end":13806.112,"text":"各個醫療院所就是說這一個醫療人員包括醫師、營養師各個醫療人員會要去針對這些病人去做個別化的處理那你現在要把他拉到變成說做一個指引出來的話"},{"start":13807.611,"end":13832.439,"text":"那有時候會碰到一些問題這些問題就是說我如果發了這個指引但是這個病人的狀況不是那麼單純比方說剛剛提到的糖尿病那糖尿病我們如果訂了一個糖尿病病人的飲食的指引那對一般的糖尿病病人都OK但是如果他糖尿病又同時又有癌症"},{"start":13833.68,"end":13837.083,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案案 案件 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案件"},{"start":13848.632,"end":13859.237,"text":"那如果是由中央主管機關去定的話,它就會變成一個類似法規的地位。阿蘇阿賓熱區約束到這一個我們的醫療從業人員他的"},{"start":13866.061,"end":13891.057,"text":"根據他們的學歷他們的病人的狀況去做彈性化處理的困境所以我覺得說這個部分的話可能還是不要直接用這樣子的法條文字去做處理會比較好"},{"start":13894.299,"end":13913.196,"text":"讓這個醫療的食物上面能夠有比較彈性可以去做處理那通常這類的指引通常都會是在各種醫學會裡面他們會去做一些該案出來這個該案出來之後的話他都會有一些保留"},{"start":13914.177,"end":13942.359,"text":"就是說如果有其他公病的時候,那要讓這個醫療人員能夠去做一些調整。這樣子似乎是比較符合時機啦。放在法律的條文恐怕會比較不是那麼好。我們台灣的醫療水準很高啦,所以我想剛剛部長講的那些早就在做了。"},{"start":13943.493,"end":13969.146,"text":"不管是各種,像我三十人來,常常你問民眾,你這變什麼?這變什麼?搞不好我也不會贏,因為毛病好多那你乾脆找你那位周醫師好好的看一下就對了,就是這樣一句話那這個跟這個跟事不曉得法,其實其實是沒有什麼太大,那個一定"},{"start":13971.273,"end":13996.347,"text":"說就不能去寫啦齁,啊,我是覺得這樣啦齁,但是沒關係啦,看,看啦,也不要在這個地方delay太久嘛,如果說未來後面,我想該做的我們都會做,國家都已經在做啦齁,只是說這個法,就主責也不要跑掉太多啦齁。好啦,這樣我看這樣啦,不然就叫補地方議事啦,齁,啊不然有什麼要補充的,我們來補充這樣好了,好不好,齁。"},{"start":13997.93,"end":14003.175,"text":"這樣就是說第一就是剛才這個第9條就是我們現在的第10條那個就按照行政院版通過然後再來第10條委員吳玉琴第12條這個部分請你們第12條這個"},{"start":14022.689,"end":14045.938,"text":"我們就列為以後的努力的方向,努力的為人民健康的方向,這次就先不要來採,先不用採用了。好,那就是委員吳玉琴16人提案的第12條,還有陳慶民委員第18條、第10條。"},{"start":14048.579,"end":14067.878,"text":"還有委員林淑芬第19條,不,資格人第12條,委員陳伯儀16人提案的第11條,後面還有喔?後面是說明,就先不理財納啦。感謝大家智慧的提出建議,你們的提出建議都對未來有"},{"start":14069.232,"end":14094.786,"text":"有啟發的功能,非常感謝。那原來的第10條現在11條了嘛,對不對?主席,不是要休息嗎?對,對,對,休息十分鐘。上廁所跟吃飯。主席,現在休息前我修正一下或是提醒一下,第8條的這個剛剛的文字裡面,命德委託有關機關,可能要加一個go,機關go,文字上這樣才會比較多元。"},{"start":14095.546,"end":14122.381,"text":"嘿,就是我們剛剛有修正文字嘛齁,並得委託有關機關瓜福購學校或營養及健康相關專業團體為之。齁,這個,齁,對,這樣子才,文字才會完整。週圓。現在第9條。購齁,購。好,那就按照這樣齁,修正通過齁。購。好,休息10分鐘。我們吃飯上廁所快一點齁。"},{"start":14125.695,"end":14151.598,"text":"二、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨員吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案 兩、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨員吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 兩、繼續審查台灣民眾黨員吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 兩、繼續審查台灣民眾黨員吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案 兩、繼續審查台灣民眾黨員吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草"},{"start":14797.658,"end":14825.208,"text":"說明一下好謝謝吼這個第有關我們第11原來第10條現在第11條吼那謝謝我們民眾黨委員提提出來政府機關應該支持跟協助這些辦理食物營養的法人等等還有呢這個林瑞周委員提出來政府機關夠應依據國人極慢性營養相關疾病性或定點營養及疾病的飲食指南吼"},{"start":14826.088,"end":14842.405,"text":"還有陳建民委員特別提到政府應該考慮到特別弱勢家庭的高營養風險族群偏鄉離島族群及極慢性相關的這些疾病的需求跟委員做說明第一個就是說我們對"},{"start":14843.986,"end":14866.991,"text":"極慢性病的部分就剛剛已經討論過了希望委員能夠支持行政院的幫忙感謝委員支持那對於這些高風險或偏鄉的話其實我們現在做的社區營養中心還有ICOP其實就在評估這些民眾他到底對營養的狀況如何有沒有有沒有這個缺乏哪一些營養的部分就是要營養來介入相關的管理"},{"start":14867.671,"end":14884.923,"text":"那在偏鄉的話那麼偏鄉的話這裡的話那個弱勢環體的話我們在這個評估以後我們也會特別亦照顧這也是我們社區營養推廣中心最主要的一個工作項目所以還是建立我們維持行政案的版本謝謝好 有沒有意見有 有意見 抱歉因為我這邊齁其實非常認同署長這邊把偏鄉阿這邊放進來"},{"start":14896.325,"end":14921.396,"text":"但是我還加了一個特別脆弱家庭的高營養風險族群那為什麼會把它加進來其實舉例來說就前陣子我們辦公室配合早產兒基金會有舉辦相關的那個記者會其實他們就特別提到這一些脆弱家庭譬如說早產兒他就是有高營養風險的族群你知道他的母乳添加劑一盒就要兩千塊"},{"start":14922.176,"end":14932.607,"text":"所以每個月啊這些的花費對這些家庭來說都非常的高啦所以為什麼我會把這一個脆弱家庭的高營養風險族群加進來原因在這裡以上"},{"start":14943.752,"end":14952.564,"text":"我們陳建民委員悲天憐人啦齁很關心這個早餐了齁那個你覺得有沒有包括在裡面的來 市長"},{"start":14954.405,"end":14978.499,"text":"經過如果我們評估論呢他是我們的風險族群我們當然會特別去介入啦吼那對於剛剛提到特別他有沒有營養品這個我們有委託國會在調查對於早產兒那過程中那相關的一些需求不只是營養的部分那這個部長有指示目前請國會在瞭解這件事情原來部長早就有杯天餅人的吼您估計到那個吼"},{"start":14979.622,"end":15002.119,"text":"看起來有包括的話,是不是我們還是尊重行政院反好了啦齁?反正已經有在做了,好不好?還少一個人啦,非常少一個委員那第11條就先,先有一個共識齁,等一下委員過來再通過好了齁?感謝大家齁?好,接下來那個,換到我們第30頁的,第11條現在12條齁?"},{"start":15010.186,"end":15033.245,"text":"第11條最主要就是在說明我們第8條所做的結果那如果發現這個人民缺乏某一些特定的營養素的時候那或者是有營養不良之時那我們會來建立提出來建立鼓勵這些業者,數位業者也好,販售業者也好那在製造過程的時候必須要把這個營養素添加進去"},{"start":15034.466,"end":15054.324,"text":"所以我們也謝謝我們劉委員還有各個委員包括民眾黨黨團還有石橋林委員還有楊前副委員、張一鳴委員、邱泰文委員特別有提還有我們陳建民委員也特別提到林書煥委員等他最主要是說這些"},{"start":15055.425,"end":15081.996,"text":"這些調查營養素除了缺乏以外還會有危害顯有危害健康之儀之食得公告該營養成分那我想我們在調查如果這是不足的時候或者是不良之儀食我們就會來公告了也會鼓勵這些業者來做相關的一些添加來提供給民眾來購買最典型的大概就是點過去我們調查裡面就發現缺點的狀況"},{"start":15083.837,"end":15105.937,"text":"那就希望能夠業者能夠再輸天天加點吼那這類似像缺火的時候我們就會讓這些牙膏啊牙膏加在那個火的添加劑裡面所以我想這個部分本來就有這樣的鼓勵性質吼所以是不是建議因為相關的添加物的成分必須要回到添加物的食品管理是"},{"start":15106.497,"end":15116.765,"text":"是不是衛生安全管理法他的相關的添加的管理機制所以我們不建立在這裡在政內所以是不是請委員能夠支持我們行政院的版本"},{"start":15118.328,"end":15138.934,"text":"好,署長說得很詳盡了啦吼,那是不是我們就尊重行政院的版本,第12條講到行政本。來,薇恩。是,我們現在在討論行政院的第11條嘛吼,我們順下來,對,11條嘛吼,因為前面還有蘇巧慧的兩個條文吼,好等一下,那沒關係我們先進入到這個行政院的11條吼,"},{"start":15140.254,"end":15154.744,"text":"我的版本當然國電署提到的就是有營養不良之餘我也支持因為我們寫的是有危害健康之餘好像感覺這個嚴重性要高"},{"start":15155.985,"end":15181.494,"text":"那也有一定的可能在認定上有一些的他的難度那我的版本裡面也談到說指定食品的製造業者跟這個輸入業者的部分那行政部門也來說明這些都在食安法有相關的規範所以我們就回到食安法的相關規範我也支持所以對行政院的這個版本我是支持的以上"},{"start":15182.403,"end":15210.813,"text":"好,謝謝。我們就按照行政院版通過。黃旭安委員來了。救星救星。民主救星。剛剛要通過哪一條?原來的第11條我們就按照行政院版通過。第12條就按照行政院版通過。然後我們追過來26月的蘇巧慧委員等23人的第13條。還有什麼?後面第14條。"},{"start":15212.489,"end":15225.757,"text":"我們就為財難感謝提供這麼啟發性的建議我們再來思考一下有關我們四條委員23人的提案新章這一條條文第三章張銘沒問題通過第12條現在是13條了"},{"start":15244.167,"end":15270.341,"text":"中間還有中間還有中間有我們的提案那要不要採納主席我們那個提案這個是有關團善的部分他已經在學校衛生法的23條有明定了啦所以我們這邊不堅持好啦既然吳大姐這樣講我全部就是我對跟著不用啦好那我們就吳玉琴委員的16檔還有第4條還有台灣民眾黨的第20條"},{"start":15272.305,"end":15277.969,"text":"委員市長歐斯山人第16條、委員邱太人19人第13條、委員林思文19人第15條、委員專政省21人第18條,我們就不予採納。接下來我們進到第13條。"},{"start":15288.118,"end":15303.095,"text":"第13條就是我們政府機關被教輔導開發業者產製食品或製造飲食的時候應納入這些考慮那也非常謝謝我們相關委員包括劉建國委員吳玉琴委員還有民眾黨所提的那包括促進產業鏈還有這個餐飲業者開發的時候"},{"start":15306.909,"end":15321.326,"text":"考量到人民的這些健康飲食的一個製作。所以呢我是覺得說我們在這裡面來講那也非常謝謝也希望大家能夠支持行政院的版本但是現在也認為說政府在輔導"},{"start":15322.788,"end":15336.3,"text":"食品業者那是不是在食品的後面加一個餐飲業者因為他們餐飲也是製造提供給我們民眾的也謝謝委員的一個建立這樣食物比較完整除了食品的製造者那是不是還敗掛餐飲業者"},{"start":15342.586,"end":15343.768,"text":"食品、豆點、餐飲業者、燉點。"},{"start":15361.072,"end":15384.239,"text":"主席好,小鼠這邊補充說明一下就是有關於那個食品業者因為在食安法裡面的話那個食品業者其實就已經包含了製造業跟餐飲業的部分所以是不是可以請委員支持這個行政院版本這個小鼠的解釋就是說食品業者已經涵蓋在餐飲業者在裡面所以不用再另列"},{"start":15387.369,"end":15407.101,"text":"好,感謝食藥署的專業的意見齁那我們就第13條都按照行政院版通過謝謝大家的指導齁那接下來欸?怎麼沒看?喔找四條?36月36月先解決,來36月齁欸?等一下現在是"},{"start":15416.547,"end":15442.799,"text":"等一等,再多一條,再加一條。好,那我們這些就都不用了啦。好,那委員四條會二十三人的第十九條,委員四條會二十三人的第二十條,委員四條會二十三人的第二十一條,邱太偉委員的第十九人的第十七條就不予採納。還有後面,下面還有委員四條會二十三人的第二十二條,還有委員"},{"start":15444.943,"end":15446.844,"text":"委員吳玉琴等16人提案第18條,這些都不予承納。接下來我們進到第14條。"},{"start":15460.72,"end":15478.923,"text":"第14條那各位委員提了我們就有關中央資本機關或者是目的社會資本機關希望將營養及健康飲食教育納入下列的從來人臉之在職訓練或者是積極教育的課程那分為"},{"start":15480.69,"end":15500.163,"text":"也謝謝大家的建議民眾黨團提議是把第一項所有的議事人力改成議事人員蘇曉媛也建議第一項改成議事人員還有委員是贊助一部分是刪除"},{"start":15504.327,"end":15524.85,"text":"剛剛我們這個稍微也提了修正動議修正動議的主要的內容要不要念一遍修正動議的內容就是希望說中央主管機關以中央目的事業主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育納入下列"},{"start":15527.42,"end":15543.689,"text":"下列人員之在職訓練或繼續教育課程我唸好了我唸因為你可能還沒吃飯多喝一點咖啡那第13條中央主管機關以中央目的事業主管機關就沒變嘛因為本來是本來是什麼"},{"start":15550.582,"end":15574.853,"text":"推行並鼓勵推行並鼓勵營養及健康飲食教育納入下列人員在職訓練或繼續教育課程那原來其實其實如果以後面的說明羅馬這個營養先年其實他只要是希望我們只要有照顧真的是第一線有照顧到接觸到民眾的我們就"},{"start":15575.58,"end":15604.255,"text":"大家懂得怎麼樣去做一個營養的教育、健康的促進那這個部分非常好那我們的國電署也把這個精神拿過來那當然包括公衛師本來看起來就是在直接在第一線做這件事情那3、4、5、6、7就是在營養羅馬先的營養裡面要求的人那現在健康署是把醫事人員進來一起共襄盛舉那現在是這樣子"},{"start":15605.154,"end":15632.362,"text":"最好是後來我們是覺得說因為醫師那些人服務太廣了你說要病理科的醫師他也從來不接觸病人啊或是先科的醫師你要他去做一個會去上這些課來促進營養的會比較比較沒尊重啦吼啊所以有時候這段時間感謝國健署跟我們相關的大家討論吼那到原來我們是希望把整個拿掉啦但是後來"},{"start":15634.022,"end":15660.617,"text":"尊重這個共襄盛舉所以就寫一個從事上面相關工作之醫事人員比較不會把醫事人員整一棚都用下去那可能有的人根本沒有去接觸到這個的話沒有去接觸到這個健康飲食營養這個部分所以就是我們的修正東西就是從事相關工作之醫事人員其他就是照原來後來的修正的狀況報告完畢這樣署長可以嗎?"},{"start":15662.864,"end":15681.946,"text":"那先說不能尊重我們同意。那個主席對我剛剛覺得主席剛剛解釋的非常有道理齁但是以我們現在醫事人員的積蓄教育辦法裡面其實我們只能列出來說欸我只規範幾年幾學分就好那一定是相關從業人員你自己會去選擇你覺得適合的嘛"},{"start":15682.426,"end":15709.442,"text":"所以我覺得特別要提前面要寫說從事相關之醫事人員這樣有點怪那像公衛公共衛生師也不一定他就是做營養相關的嘛所以我覺得只要把醫事人員列出來就好了有需要再寫從事相關工作因為有些醫事人說實在的啦齁你如果現在尊重醫師齁百年來就是帶著團隊大家一直在衝我想大家看這個歷史"},{"start":15710.521,"end":15714.062,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案 吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案 案"},{"start":15736.187,"end":15757.247,"text":"老師講你要麻糊去做這些你要繼續交易要加上這個不是不是他們就吐血了嗎沒有啦他其實就是我們現在的辦法就只規定說幾年幾學分一定要而已啊我們也沒有規定你一定要包括什麼內容啊所以我就在想說你下去就會被規定了啦這裡是寫應推行並鼓勵啊應推行並鼓勵"},{"start":15761.525,"end":15787.828,"text":"我只是覺得這樣好像反而法上面有沒有話舌天竺啊因為就是只要有意識人員反正我就有列出來你有相關工作你自己就會去選擇跟這個有相關的來上啊繼續教育學生不是就是這樣就是在做這件事情的啊你通通把它包圍下去對老實講對意識人員是不尊重的啊因為這個下去就會訂後面的一些規定啊"},{"start":15793.563,"end":15801.363,"text":"對阿譬如說像燕光師,燕光師有阿譬如說燕光師我們會跟他講說你要加葉酸阿你要吃什麼東西,這個就是有嘛"},{"start":15803.582,"end":15822.23,"text":"月光師可以教人家加葉酸嗎?不是啦!現在就是說我們一天到晚連廣告也跟人家講說你要補充嘛!沒有教啦!現在是說我們現在連廣告也都在說欸應該要補充嘛!對不對!我相信這樣子有算侵權嗎?月光師如果再配眼鏡的跟他講說欸小孩要多吃葉酸就侵權嘛!來來我們是不是解釋一下這樣有侵權嗎?"},{"start":15831.78,"end":15856.958,"text":"欸基本上如果他的這個指導牽涉到跟醫療業務有關係的那基本上就是仍然是有診斷治療的問題那就要有醫師來提出這個建議有點難以認定齁不好認定這個這個"},{"start":15861.557,"end":15877.062,"text":"兒子要出門的時候媽媽叫他說你要吃一顆維他命啊在出門這樣子如果我們人類的智慧沒有辦法去分辨這個那也很奇怪啊對不對當然要分辨啊很難去定義啊"},{"start":15880.523,"end":15906.515,"text":"我可以再釐清因為我們原來行政院的版本是應將營養及健康飲食教育要列入繼續教育這個是一個強制性也就是說未來如果我們照行政院版本通過就是列舉了這些人全部他的繼續教育通通要列營養的教育但是如果現在以召委修訂之後他是應推行並鼓勵他比較軟性"},{"start":15907.836,"end":15908.717,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具"},{"start":15926.481,"end":15946.192,"text":"需不需要再把前面從事相關工作是醫事人員還是說醫事人員就涵蓋就是鼓勵嘛我的概念如果召委修完之後是因鼓勵的概念是軟性的他比較不是說強制一定要全部都要放進去確實如果是像行政院的版本的話確實是會讓各專業都覺得壓力好大很硬全部都要列入規範要繼續交易我的理解有沒有錯可能要請"},{"start":15953.576,"end":15978.266,"text":"行政部門在或法規的部門幫我們解釋一下好嗎你完全沒有相關的意識人員應該這樣說啦稍微說明一下下我們是應推行並鼓勵這個站在主管機關的立場當然是鼓勵所有因為這個法是基本法所以希望前面都能夠受相關的健康飲食推動的這樣一個姿勢"},{"start":15979.932,"end":16002.933,"text":"那至於說相關的團體就是次團體他會不會把他列入如果以這個法他是他要列入我們是無權干涉啦所以召委會考慮這個也是有他的想法因為醫事團體可能這個醫事公會可能或者是家庭醫學會或者哪個學會他就把他列進去或者是這個"},{"start":16005.157,"end":16028.207,"text":"哪一個協會他就把他列到說他要上幾個小時的營養協會呢?啊這個就我們就在主管機關來講因為我們寫的是應推行並鼓勵嘛所以他列入我也是鼓勵他但是他就會限制到職業的人員的問題所以稍微提考兩個是這個部分啦也跟委員說明一下只要你是基層醫師你們有在做糖尿病的教學那當然就是相關啊"},{"start":16029.267,"end":16043.682,"text":"對不對?你要那個麻醉醫師那病理科醫師麻醉醫師跟營養有點關係啦齁病理科醫師、放射線科醫師以後來做這種訓練當然你現在在鼓勵我是覺得就很清楚的"},{"start":16044.98,"end":16067.559,"text":"我們要的因為這是專業剛剛署長講的全民是在後面都有鼓勵一些全民要那個在後面自然就會有全民運動但是這個是在講專業的人員嘛其實根本原來在羅馬先年也沒有特別去要求這些他是跟第一線有跟病人接觸的人跟民眾接觸的人我們要幫他訓練有這種技能"},{"start":16070.086,"end":16094.052,"text":"是這種意思嘛所以我們在這樣尊者之下就是說好吧你要寫就寫進去啊尊重一下可能醫療他的一個一個一個或複雜性跟他的一個他的專業是很多的那這個部分大概有80%的醫療專業的人是還是會從事相關的一些一些相關的一些的工作啦"},{"start":16095.327,"end":16118.217,"text":"所以大概大概這個部分是在把宣言跟我們實際上大家共同來做這個做一個中間啊尊重醫療人員吼的一個一個一個著重吶應該也不損不損害什麼那個啊你你你那個難道你你沒有不是不是在從事"},{"start":16119.414,"end":16144.894,"text":"不是在從事那個的護理人員就不能去接受訓練,也沒有啊。你要去訓練大家翻領啊。但是,其實你看齁,這是一規定專業的事情啦。不是專業,全民運動啦。啊他的重點是在於偷獄啦齁。其實他的教保人員,老實講,跟這個寫在一起,這樣拍寫就怪怪啦,你知道嗎?齁,你現在沒稍微再把那個分開一點,我就對醫師太不尊重了啦。"},{"start":16151.92,"end":16174.992,"text":"好不好,這已經抱歉,這已經歸咎很久了,已經從原來想要拿掉然後再去研究然後到最後用這樣大家我們最近幾天重要的一些跟專家跟醫界的專家大家討論的一個結果如果沒有影響到大家的那個要發展的就請尊重這樣的建議好不好拜託一下"},{"start":16182.415,"end":16193.17,"text":"這樣這第幾條?要不然第14條就照委員邱太安等3人修正動議,第13條通過。好,接下來。好,接下來是第15條,有關這個"},{"start":16196.533,"end":16217.828,"text":"鼓勵所有相關的機關公司在辦理活動的時候要採購的禮品先到必須要納入這些健康飲食的一些考量也謝謝劉建國委員吳玉琴委員還有民眾黨版本提案那麼也謝謝林委員提相關所提的陳建委員所提的還有林書恩委員所提的"},{"start":16218.968,"end":16237.12,"text":"他們都希望說明定這些要用公務預算來自應那我是覺得說因為這些相關團體不管他的監會如果去爭取那是不是一定要用公務預算都不能用其他監會的來源是不是有所限收所以是不是建議能夠以行政院版本來通過好 如果沒有意見我們就按行政院版通過第四條 第16條"},{"start":16250.796,"end":16273.361,"text":"第16條主管機關得獎勵政府、機關、醫療機構、福利機構等相關就是辦理獎勵這個辦理健康飲食的一個環境那這些獎勵的對象、條件、方式、申請的程序、審查及其他相關事項的辦法由中央主管來定那非常謝謝我們各位委員也有一些意見"},{"start":16275.041,"end":16292.86,"text":"特別民眾黨提出來說政府機關在辦理這些的時候特別要針對加為一個合作社私人企業還有社區公使廚房及舒適友善環境還有陳北委員特別提出社區整體"},{"start":16294.241,"end":16318.889,"text":"整體的照護服務體系各單位還有公司法人還有時代力量所提的包括早期療癒機構安置及教養機構矯正機關等等那其實我們在這一條裡面來講這些機關並沒有說排除這些相關的所以也希望說大家能夠實施以前這樣的版本來通過好第16條如果沒有"},{"start":16323.717,"end":16338.604,"text":"特別意見我們就按行政院版通過。第17條。第17條就是有關這些弱勢的兒童特別是所以要足以希望能夠父母進入的還有其"},{"start":16340.273,"end":16366.302,"text":"其他實際在照顧兒童及少年之人應該要提供符合兒童及少年營養的需求之飲食。那也非常謝謝我們這個蘇喬威委員還有林恩維州委員等相關提案那經過說明以後也謝謝他們的支持能夠以行政院的版本來通過。好第17條我們就按行政院版通過那這邊要不要練一下不用齁不用齁好"},{"start":16369.883,"end":16371.852,"text":"就不用了吼?好,那就第18條"},{"start":16374.349,"end":16403.022,"text":"第18條就是有關幼兒園高級中等以下學校供受飲品及典型嬰醫幼兒教育及照顧法、學校衛生法及其相關法令供應原則或範圍辦理那也謝謝各位委員的提案那特別是實在理論有提到說供受飲品的部分也要考量進去那其實這個都已經在相關的規範了所以感謝委員的支持那以前這樣版本通過"},{"start":16404.215,"end":16420.609,"text":"好,謝謝。好,如果沒有意見我們就第18條端的行政院版通過然後再來那54頁的台灣民眾版黨團提案第19條委員宣選會第23人提案第45條委員前輩16人提案第14條就不予採納。然後接下來第4章"},{"start":16432.141,"end":16450.397,"text":"第三張名:「營養及健康飲食教育。」那謝謝各位委員都以前那反正一樣。接下來第19條。那委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第24條。委員陳培宇等16人提案第21條。還有委員蘇曉慧等23人提案第25條就不予採納。那接下來第19條。"},{"start":16463.071,"end":16481.881,"text":"請說明第19條那麼就是只要說應對主管機關及各級目的稅主來應該鼓勵相關的政府機關構或者醫療機構等等那必須要辦理對員工辦理營養及健康飲食的教育那而且對病得開放給民眾來自參與那這個是鼓勵大家"},{"start":16483.542,"end":16500.279,"text":"那也謝謝我們相關委員包括劉建國吳玉琴委員還有民眾黨團的提案那麼我們經過溝通大家對於這個涵蓋的情況板裡面那也謝謝陳培宜委員抓手提裡面必須要包括社區整體"},{"start":16501.46,"end":16516.21,"text":"照顧服務體系各單位那跟村長溝通的話因為社會經濟有大有小有人甚至於是個人的單位如果要納入可能有一些困難所以我們是不是謝謝希望大家能夠支持行政院的版本好19條如果沒有意見的人就按行政院版本通過第20條"},{"start":16524.717,"end":16544.27,"text":"第二十條就是在希望能夠主管機關要鼓勵這些醫療機構等相關機構來辦理這個進行這些營養與健康飲食教育所以這裡面他寫特別感謝劉建國委員還有吳玉琴委員民眾黨等還有蘇喬惠委員林惠珠委員等"},{"start":16545.131,"end":16559.789,"text":"包括楊瓊英委員、張一鳴委員、邱太元委員、陳建元委員、蔡耀臣等都提出相關修正文字特別說明在各級農業主管機關應鼓勵"},{"start":16562.292,"end":16584.966,"text":"農林移牧業者、節育食品業者、政府機關學校幼兒園法人或團體推動相關營養及健康教育。那因為考量到當初在立法的時候草擬立法案的時候食農教育法還沒有通過所以相關的食農教育的部分那已經在食農教育法裡面已經有規定是不是請求各位能夠同意行政院的版本的涵蓋內容來通過謝謝"},{"start":16589.552,"end":16594.895,"text":"第二十條嗎?第二十條就按行政院版通過第二十一條來請說明二十二條了"},{"start":16611.707,"end":16613.788,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具〈營養及健康飲食促進法草案案〉案"},{"start":16630.629,"end":16635.933,"text":"我拿來第20條,現在21條是,好,這個剛剛我已經念過了我已經念過了,就是因為牽扯到食農教育法已經規劃了剛剛署長確實講太快了,我們的版本裡面在原來行政院版20條,現在21條我們對食農教育的部分其實有加進去,但因為食農教育法已經通過了,所以我覺得我們這邊就不堅持"},{"start":16659.789,"end":16685.767,"text":"第二項的這些說法。所以第21條就按行政院法通過。接下來?25條我們也不堅持,都在食農教育法裡面有規範的。感謝吳大姐。委員吳玉琴等16人提案第25條。委員林思文等16人提案第25條。委員陳培宇等16人提案第28條,我們就不採納。"},{"start":16688.004,"end":16705.465,"text":"第二十二條第二十二條就是有原來行政院版的第二十一條那中央主管機關與中央目的社會主管機關應將營養及健康飲食教育列入下列政府機關構學校幼兒園民間機構"},{"start":16708.308,"end":16726.619,"text":"獲法人之評鑑或輔導項目那下列項目那謝謝我們各個委員所提的版本吼那我們也經過討論啦也跟委員之間吼那委員有提出修正動議那是不是依委員的修正動議來通過好修正動議就是評鑑拿掉嘛吼評鑑或拿掉嘛對不對"},{"start":16735.435,"end":16764.502,"text":"好那第21條就是第22條就按照委員邱太人等3人委員吳玉琴等3人修正動議第21條通過欸對不起我想講話欸因為一直在講那個我提示把醫療機構改成醫事機構啦主要是因為現在在承辦的單位譬如說我們現在就有社區營養推廣中心那社區營養推廣中心現在的確是在衛生所的可是未來可能就像剛剛那個署長提到的未來要加緊要加倍計劃"},{"start":16765.422,"end":16792.418,"text":"所以它不屬於醫療機構吧所以在這樣的情況之下你特別只寫醫療機構社區營養推廣中心這些因為本來是說如果把它放入評鑑的話會那個會很麻煩但是我們現在已經把評鑑拿到了那因為譬如說ICOP它也會委託很多的醫事機構來處理啊所以我覺得放醫事機構可能會比較完整而不是醫療機構"},{"start":16795.922,"end":16820.227,"text":"因為評鑑已經拿掉了嘛我是覺得是這樣醫事機構的範圍比較大醫事機構的範圍比較大醫療機構的範圍比較小但是因為我們現在主要我們要推廣這個教育嘛譬如說你也是委託ICOP是所有的醫事機構都可以承辦嘛所以是不是就改成醫事機構醫事機構就包括護理機構那護理機構就可以拿掉了對不對"},{"start":16824.033,"end":16826.558,"text":"對,只要意識機構、護理機構就可以拿掉,沒問題啊。沒有問題啊。意識機構非常的廣啊。"},{"start":16836.932,"end":16857.369,"text":"醫事機構還有報關啊,所以不要我們一個人都扣進去是主席補充說明一下一般在醫政管理上醫事機構就會包含包含我們這些檢驗所、驗光所、職能治療所等等物理治療所全部都會被解釋為包含對他定義上就是醫事機構之一對現在又不是民間"},{"start":16869.628,"end":16871.829,"text":"要簽名運動也不用簽名運動到這種地步啦齁。齁。齁。齁。齁。齁。齁。齁。齁。"},{"start":16891.944,"end":16917.49,"text":"對啦我知道啊但是這是你的想法但是我有時候我們沒帶沒資料撿進去那現在主要因為本來是現在是主要是評鑑會評鑑的話就會很廣那現在是輔導的話就是說如果我們有我們如果有承辦他的業務的話我們的中央主管機關是不是就應該要有輔導或者是訪查這個部分"},{"start":16918.83,"end":16923.594,"text":"主席我持平的說一下好了因為我們原來對於評鑑放進去會覺得匡好多的這些機構單位都要把它列為評鑑我覺得這個是真的會造成大家非常多的困擾因為各個機構的評鑑都已經百項以上的評鑑指標了然後我們在這個立法上面又把它列入評鑑的項目的話我覺得這就會困擾"},{"start":16943.729,"end":16961.426,"text":"那我是覺得現在改成輔導大家有共識喔那個評鑑拿掉改成輔導項目那我是覺得是不是要把它擴大到所有的醫事團體都進來醫事機構都進來我覺得是不是一樣有那個疑慮可能主席也有那個疑慮說全部都要進來嗎要那麼廣因為其實醫事機構是"},{"start":16966.05,"end":16966.65,"text":"議事機構是我們下一步吧"},{"start":16993.6,"end":17008.392,"text":"吳玉琴來說明一下如果大家對於這樣怕怪異若萬又怕那邊沒有是不是可以建議一下比照我們10天以後的修正啦從事相關工作之機構之意思機構要不然就沒那個"},{"start":17016.434,"end":17033.043,"text":"對,我是同意的,主要是因為我們現在iCOBE真的是廣為推廣嘛,所以在這樣的情況之下是有很多醫事機構從事相關的營養推廣,就需要被接受輔導,我覺得是同意的。好啦,很有智慧齁,看起來很有智慧的感覺。這個都跟水部長學習的齁。"},{"start":17041.021,"end":17066.706,"text":"那個然後從事相關工作是醫事機構就不會包山包海有時候你去找到別人的薪酬保養那個我每天在做就盡量不要去壓到人家但是我說來喔來喔 都來都來我幫你輔導那種感覺也不太爽那所以但是你從事相關工作你的確就要我們來互相"},{"start":17069.498,"end":17091.034,"text":"福島一下這樣子齁,這看起來看起來第22條這樣改,大家都同意啦齁?行政院同意,沒有,那個省單位同意,OK?好,那就改從事相關工作室一事即可。那我們第22條就按照委員邱大仁等3人委員吳玉琴等3人修正通過,第21條修正通過。"},{"start":17092.376,"end":17104.171,"text":"主席這個文字法制單位協助看一下從事相關工作之一事機構是不是也涵蓋了社福機構就前面都有個從事相關的概念之"},{"start":17106.426,"end":17129.12,"text":"還是要把社會福利機構、廠商機構然後及從事相關工作之一式機構?法治單位那個文字對啦,你要確認一下,因為這樣好像是是不是也是從事相關工作的社福不是,還是全部的社福應該頓點在那裡就"},{"start":17129.844,"end":17152.049,"text":"主席,主席建議如果避免誤解的話可以把社會福利機構跟長照另列一款,就是款次第一這樣。社會福利機構、長照機構及從事相關工作之一事機構。欸這招勁討價真好喔。莫怪他數學一層天才。"},{"start":17161.088,"end":17183.458,"text":"你這樣寫法也是可以啊,不過我剛剛的建議是希望另列一款可能比較清楚。另列一款?好啦好啦,我們聽法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律"},{"start":17184.936,"end":17197.41,"text":"長期照顧服務機構叫做這樣吼?好!這樣可以吼?那就修正通過,再修正通過。好!好!再來23條"},{"start":17202.148,"end":17213.161,"text":"謝謝二十三條只要是對於這些健康飲食做不實傳播還有健康飲食做不實傳播謝謝我們劉建國委員吳玉琴委員還有民眾黨委員還有我們蘇喬委員林惟洲委員"},{"start":17219.488,"end":17242.447,"text":"等相關委員所提的那內容可能大家都為了希望能夠寫得更完整齁但是我們看完了以後覺得大家意向都一樣那也都涵蓋在行政院的這樣的草擬的文字裡面都能夠來執行了所以是不是可以建立以行政院的版本來通過好第13條如果委員沒有意見我們就按行政院版通過"},{"start":17243.479,"end":17245.1,"text":"五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查第24條"},{"start":17256.004,"end":17277.97,"text":"第24條違反前項第一項規定傳播不實質營養或健康飲食消息有影響人民健康之餘者直轄市及縣市主管機關應令其限期改正藉其為改正者處薪台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下的罰款並得按照處罰至改正為止那謝謝我們"},{"start":17279.15,"end":17300.726,"text":"各委員提出來那有關大概都以行政案的版本類似那時候的民眾黨提議是5萬元以上、30萬元以下那楊潔篪委員也是提議為5萬元以上、30萬元以下那陳建民委員是提5萬元以上、35萬元以下那莊建成委員是處30萬元以下花還"},{"start":17304.409,"end":17331.345,"text":"那因為我們參考的是食安法它的最低罰則大概都是3萬元起跳所以我們才訂行政院版本才訂3萬那避免法令上過言過言的部分希望委員能夠支持行政院的版本看起來就是法案吼這是溫暖的法案吼促進健康飲食促進法案不要法案出來大家聽了就陰陽不良吼食不下焉也不好吼那看起來醫師跟莊敬誠是比較沒錢吼所以這是3萬塊吼"},{"start":17333.482,"end":17335.903,"text":"條文的部分我沒什麼意見但是很想問問食藥署啦因為我們這個部分有參考食藥署的這個食安法"},{"start":17354.892,"end":17368.529,"text":"好46條之一嘛吼那而是要數這個這個呃散播有關食安遙遠不實吼我們我們可能更輕微的狀況那請問有案例嗎那我們執行的情形"},{"start":17370.22,"end":17398.093,"text":"我當然也擔心我們這個條文未來法則在落實上面會不會有一些困難請說明一下食藥署食藥署說明跟委員報告因為食安法的46條之一它是散播有關食品安全的謠言或是不實訊息它必須要逐聲損害於公眾或他人者然後是處三年以下有歧途刑拘役或一百萬元以下的罰金所以基本上它是一個刑罰的部分"},{"start":17398.573,"end":17417.908,"text":"那到目前為止,沒有相關的案例。以上。好,謝謝吳委員的詢問。第24條按照行政院版通過。那接下來?這邊嗎?這邊嗎?對,這邊都是到這邊。喔!我一間店,我一間店。委員劉建國等18人,第24條。委員吳琴16人,提案第28條。台灣民眾黨提案第27條。委員林惠洲等17人,第24條。委員王雄雄17人,提案第24條。"},{"start":17428.001,"end":17438.71,"text":"委員邱太仁19人提案22條,委員邢正明等18人提案第25條,委員林淑芸19人提案第28條,不予採納。好,我們進到第6章的章名"},{"start":17455.748,"end":17479.88,"text":"第六章,負責。謝謝各位所提的,就跟行政院版本一致,建議成功。第二十五條。第二十五條是本法事件細則,由中央局委員定制。謝謝各位所提案的,都跟行政院版本一樣,建議成功。第二十五條,請問通過第二十六條。第二十五,第二十六條,本法自公佈日實施。謝謝各位提案,都跟行政院一樣。第二十六,通過。好。"},{"start":17482.915,"end":17508.932,"text":"那個剛剛我漏聽因為71頁的蘇喬惠委員的30條跟劉建國委員的25條林惟洲委員的25條我好像沒有確認有嗎?有唸過嗎?有唸過有唸過好有沒有委員要再過來?有啦齁那我沒有沒有不用那個等一下我們先要不要先處理那個"},{"start":17510.698,"end":17534.079,"text":"護袋結議還是怎麼樣?護袋我先處理再等下都一邊大家通過來護袋結議來有沒有護袋結議來護袋結議有幾個?來來來順序在哪裡?這是修正這是修正修正護袋結議有沒有可以給我一下呢?"},{"start":17539.144,"end":17563.804,"text":"一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的一套的"},{"start":17567.492,"end":17592.954,"text":"沒有問題。好。第二、互代協議。通過。第三個案是施教委員、吳玉琴委員、副大會委員提的全球極端氣候這個。沒有問題。好。通過。再來就是施教委員、吳玉琴委員、副大會委員提的國人十大死因中。這個移到這邊來處理啦。是。沒有問題。好。沒有問題。好。通過。接下來。欸?還有哪一個?"},{"start":17594.856,"end":17621.605,"text":"第五案是那個陳佩宇的陳佩宇委員、吳玉琴委員、王宇宇委員、石橋委員、陳佩宇委員為推動社區營養沒有問題好通過第六個是王宇宇委員、吳玉琴委員、王秀漢委員提的兒童潛力公益他說要邀集兒少代表後徵詢兒少代表的意見我們歡迎表達有必要特別寫嗎?不知道"},{"start":17626.885,"end":17650.323,"text":"這條剛剛是有討論過啦吼應邀集邀集民間那個沒問題吧OK啦我覺得沒關係啦好沒關係啦也是需要啦吼哪一個你會找我我也是兒少代表啦吼我今天有好幾個兒少那個是不是可以寫說應邀集兒少或徵詢兒少是意見就好"},{"start":17651.872,"end":17660.859,"text":"代表兩個字,沒有關係啦吼,我現在可以啦,好,沒問題。好,我們就要來,來拍照了捏,部長在那邊要來拍照一下。今天穿得這麼漂亮,來拍一下。"},{"start":17684.526,"end":17690.67,"text":"現在有什麼人要來?誰?公主?公主?怎麼沒有人啊?是市長回來?"},{"start":17709.165,"end":17737.095,"text":"啊張以美不是最認真的嗎?也不認了?吳玉琴一個人可以做兩個人用啦所以算兩個趕快要歡呼一下啦各黨是要來?左路喔?蛤?"},{"start":17745.601,"end":17746.962,"text":"對阿你沒先頂到到,看要頂什麼頂到到"},{"start":17760.755,"end":17780.43,"text":"主席主席因為剛剛我們在條文討論的時候有變動一些條文修正那說明來立法說明的部分是不是要授權我們行政機關要去做這個文字的調整你們整個都要再順過好所以條例條次跟立法委員說明等等的這裡等一下會宣布"},{"start":17786.243,"end":17798.995,"text":"我現在就是要不要跟他宣布?我先另外宣布立法說明涉嫌主管機關去按照修改的去調整"},{"start":17820.899,"end":17834.814,"text":"奇怪,這個不能用視訊,視訊喔?蛤?阿你視訊,視訊沒有發展到這種地步喔?阿他人講話又不是別人講話這可能要來隨時代變化"},{"start":17861.975,"end":17881.816,"text":"我們是不是要全體熱烈歡迎那個來全體熱烈歡迎全體民主救生委員來有有趕快炸好我們就簽了上市的所有的修正的案那我們現在做以下決議"},{"start":17883.41,"end":17893.537,"text":"一、行政院函請審議《營養及健康飲食促進法草案》等14案審查完畢,並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論本案時由邱委員蔡衍補充說明,是否需交由黨團協商,應該不需要。"},{"start":17904.386,"end":17927.802,"text":"二、本法案條次及研引條次授權議事人員調整。三、本次會議議事錄授權由主席核定後確認。在這邊特別再度感謝我們很辛苦的成員委員麗玲指導對國民那個營養及健康促進貢獻良多。非常感謝。我們本次會議到此結束。現在散會。來照相。"},{"start":17936.686,"end":17942.755,"text":"吳玉琴等16人擬具:「營養及健康飲食促進法草案案 案。」"}]}},{"id":"15334","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15334","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e718b3f23d56109be8bd03a951da4504b46d53a332764a535c431cb790717b93e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就「評估與輔導我國保險公司，在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則（IFRS 17）和國際資本標準（ICS）的關鍵」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2023-12-06","start_time":"2023-12-06T08:30:14+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-19"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2023-12-06T11:03:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":9166,"委員發言時間":"08:30:14 - 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告委員會出席委員與主法定人數好,我們現在開始開會請議事委員宣讀上次會議記錄立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第18次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國112年12月4日星期一九十一分至十一時五十二分地點七仙樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德武等十二人列席委員鄭明莊等六人列席官員財政部部長莊翠穎等主席費昭吉委員洪泰八事項"},{"start":1853.2,"end":1870.868,"text":"邀請財政部．莊部長．翠盈就《資安一律評傳．如何強化財稅機關及供股行庫資安防護與區域聯防．進行專題報告．並備質詢。．經財政部部長．莊翠盈提出報告後．紀惠文．林德虎等12人提出質詢．均經財政部部長．莊翠盈等．以答覆說明"},{"start":1872.328,"end":1899.104,"text":"決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢會及答覆或請補充資訊請財政部一週內以書面答覆委員議要請期限者從其鎖定三委員費房貸所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請財政部以書面答覆宣達完畢好我們介紹先OK兩位針對藝術上次藝術有沒有意見沒有沒有意見那我們就確定"},{"start":1903.002,"end":1905.164,"text":"我們請議事委員宣讀今日議程"},{"start":1929.412,"end":1954.893,"text":"我們介紹今天在場的委員吳秉瑞委員介紹在場的各位官員我們金管會黃天牧主委銀行局莊局長政協局張局長保險局司局長檢察局張局長"},{"start":1959.724,"end":1976.916,"text":"我們今日一程安排：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主委就．評估與輔導我國保險公司．在因應保險合約國際財務報導準則．IFRS 17．和國際資本標準．ICS．的關鍵．進行專案報告我們現在請黃主委"},{"start":1995.743,"end":2009.706,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好今天大院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議．邀請就．評估與輔導我國保險公司．在因應保險合約會計財務報導準則．及國際資本標準的關鍵．進行專題報告．進行質詢"},{"start":2017.093,"end":2042.301,"text":"我國將在115年正式接軌國際財務報導準則第17號．以下簡稱IFRS 17．及保險業新一代清儲能力制度．以下簡稱ICS．以下請就我國接軌這兩個制度的規劃．相關評估．以及金管會協助輔導相關措施進行報告一．我們接軌這兩個制度的背景跟目的"},{"start":2043.339,"end":2047.641,"text":"接軌17號公報的背景我們在102年就開始接軌IFRS那國際間有147個國家是採用IFRS編制財報亞洲有44個"},{"start":2062.722,"end":2062.742,"text":"107 年"},{"start":2082.31,"end":2104.087,"text":"因為中間IFRS．不同的會計準則．有分逐號去公布在107年我們就適用了第9號公報就是資產面的會計準則全面採用公允價值來衡量保險合約的負債面國際會計準則委員會是在109年發布正式準則而且是要求112年生效"},{"start":2110.236,"end":2132.093,"text":"那今晚會評估整個保險業的過去的累積的保單的性質跟現況為了要給予業者比較充裕的時間所以在104年的時候就決定了要繳國際健身效率再延後三年換言之就是115年作為我國接軌17號公報的時間"},{"start":2134.81,"end":2159.548,"text":"陳柔剛才跟各位委員報告的第9號是屬於資產面所以資產面已經採取供應價值所以17號是合約會計的負債面所以資產跟負債同時用供應價值來做衡量可以使財報表達更貼近保險業經營的實質進而促使保險業重視商品策略的調整利潤結構以及資產負債管理等"},{"start":2163.807,"end":2186.248,"text":"有關17號公報．各國採用的情況．比方說在英國．歐盟．加拿大．歐洲．韓國．新加坡．香港．甚至中國大陸的A股．都是在112年接軌．那部分國家．像泰國．印尼．柬埔．在印度．菲律賓．斯里蘭卡．是在114年接軌第二點．我們要說明一下．ICS．的背景跟目的"},{"start":2187.355,"end":2201.626,"text":"因為以往國際保險業．並沒有一個各國統一的資本結構．不像銀行的Bussell Street．所以在108年．國際保險監理官協會在阿布達比年會．經過了幾乎10年的討論．通過了保險資本的標準．ICS．從109年開始進入5年的監測期．並從114年正式實施．"},{"start":2212.051,"end":2230.677,"text":"國際間也都有參考這個規範．考量自己國家的保險業的情況．訂定在地化跟過渡性的措施．來據以採納．比方說韓國在今年已經適用ICS．但是有韓國的版本．香港準備在明年適用．日本也在後年要適用"},{"start":2233.216,"end":2236.46,"text":"指出,ICS和17號公報都是對資產負債採取供應價值的評價,同樣可以強化保險業落實資產負債管理"},{"start":2248.255,"end":2271.405,"text":"我們是在109年的9月30號．對外發布新聞稿．對外說明我們鑒於17號公報．跟ICS．都是採取供應價值的角度去處理所以我們同樣都是希望是在115年．同步正式實施接下來跟各位委員報告借過兩制度的時程規劃．跟業者準備情況"},{"start":2272.967,"end":2293.221,"text":"在17號公報部分．原來是所謂的財務財報第4號的第二階段．所以我們在101年開始．就已經要求受險業．要進行有效契約負債供應價值的評估．要求預留各種準備金．在106年督導財產法人保發中心．成立專案小組．進行接軌準備試營"},{"start":2295.323,"end":2310.434,"text":"這個接軌除了利率式因素之外很重要就是資訊系統、歷史資料收集、商品策略調整、資產負債管理強化等等所以我們要給業者稍微比其他國家多一點的時間來做因應"},{"start":2313.304,"end":2320.131,"text":"預計我們需要在今年完成整個系統的建制明年做平行測試114年為開帳日115年順利實施17號公報目前保險業均陸續完成17號公報相關系統需求的盤點正在進行系統設計調整等建制"},{"start":2332.418,"end":2343.849,"text":"那接著ICS部分也是從109年到113年分5年依照保險業試算的結果來陸續完成在地化監理的規範跟過渡性措施的修正"},{"start":2346.24,"end":2364.539,"text":"目前來講保險業已經完成了兩次在地試算跟兩次平行測試那必要說並逐步強化他的利率風險管理跟增資跟強化資本跟財務的體制第三點也是主管機關在協助哪些事情在17號公報部分第一個我們在106年我們就"},{"start":2367.142,"end":2388.649,"text":"成立了一個接軌的一個專案小組在保發中心分為幾個組來協助業者另外我們要求業者進行獨立的評估強化他本身的配合17號公報的相關的整個的契約負債的供應價值評估以及相關的準備金補強的這個計劃"},{"start":2391.24,"end":2420.455,"text":"另外我們也希望保險業能夠強化財務體質來採取各項措施來提列相關的準備金或特別盈餘公積我們也盤點修正了17號公報的相關法規來協助業者引以包括我們在今年年底會發布保險業各種準備金提存辦法跟財報編制準則等多項法規那在ICS部分"},{"start":2421.789,"end":2437.985,"text":"第一,我們已經開始在今年4月份放寬發行據資本訊息的債券條件,可以有利於保險業籌資。第二,我們要制定適合我國國情的保險業新一代清償能力的制度。"},{"start":2438.726,"end":2438.946,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":2459.667,"end":2485.877,"text":"國際間要更彈性相對比較低的係數來讓業者比較容易能夠調適而且都給予15年的過渡期第二就是11月23號提供了包括高利率保單50個基點的利率轉換措施50%線性地震15年利率過渡措施以及高利率保單15年淨資產過渡措施等等的這些接軌的措施"},{"start":2487.327,"end":2507.587,"text":"尤其重要的就是我們雖然在11月23號公布了這些措施但是我們也了解國際的經濟金融情況不斷在變動所以除了定期每5年要爭取業者執行的情況進行檢討之外我們也在新聞稿承諾如果整體金融情況有顯著變化的時候我們會隨時檢討"},{"start":2509.569,"end":2520.636,"text":"以上就是就我們整個臺灣的保險業在接軌17號公報跟ICS上的背景目的業者的準備跟經管會的協助措施以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":2531.196,"end":2534.017,"text":"現在開始詢答做以下的宣告"},{"start":2570.161,"end":2575.647,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請那個金管會的黃主委黃主委來"},{"start":2582.287,"end":2610.002,"text":"主委我請教因為台股11月來大漲那扮演穩盤角色的八大公股這些券商目前暫時退場那個累計11月一共賣超595億元那再加上今年4月14日起傳出國安基金也退場獲利了結的消息外界認為台股未來的發展"},{"start":2610.842,"end":2632.43,"text":"有一定程度的不確定性主委您的看法呢?是,謝謝委員我想我在今年年初記者會就對今年的台股有八個字就是展現韌性、穩健前行我想國際政經情況是變化的所以台股難免都有一些漲有一些跌但是我覺得基本的方向我們會有韌性而且會穩健前行這樣齁?"},{"start":2634.032,"end":2639.905,"text":"主委我再請教因為11月外資的前朝永路台股淨匯路"},{"start":2642.389,"end":2642.629,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2672.083,"end":2693.993,"text":"這些外資樂權來投入台股你認為是避嫌的考量還是投資價值的取向?我想我不能夠替決定外資投資台股它後面一定最終的目的是什麼不過我相信台股的基本面良好指利率不錯所以這是一個台股很好的選擇"},{"start":2694.881,"end":2712.646,"text":"那你認為這些外資大局賄賂主要的原因你認為大概是朝哪個方向我想資金都是逐利而居啦我想應該台股有他的優越性所以他願意來投資台股我想他是自己但是這個投資應該是不斷隨著時間在做調整的"},{"start":2718.989,"end":2734.412,"text":"黃主委,因為近期熱錢持續流入,促使禮拜一新台幣匯率盤中一度強升超過一角,中場升值6分以31.415元報收,請問近期外資熱錢會不會成為推升整個台股動人的阻力?"},{"start":2744.212,"end":2769.878,"text":"報告委員我想外資跟本土的資金都是對台股都是動能我們台股散戶對台股也是很有興趣的像公股、航庫的賣股、國安基金的退場光是靠外資你認為這個能夠維持台股成交的動能嗎?"},{"start":2771.258,"end":2771.278,"text":"這樣喔﹖"},{"start":2786.277,"end":2809.503,"text":"因為那個主委啊,媒體報導,像這些歐美的商用不動產,金件啊,爆雷那據瞭解從去年到今天,至少有8件歐美商辦啊,這些受信案陸陸續續爆雷那也牽連至少有第一銀行啊,張銀啊,兆豐銀啊,還有台銀,4家的公股行庫"},{"start":2810.823,"end":2816.952,"text":"那我請問主委,歐美商辦這些授信報雷的事件是不是真的?"},{"start":2820.183,"end":2842.381,"text":"是有,我跟委員報告因為美國的升息那對於不動產尤其是商辦來講當然是有影響所以金管會在今年6月7月左右就已經內部就已經針對這個情況做了一個掌握那所以一方面發函給銀行請他注意風險管理第二部分我們的檢查部分在尤其在海外經檢部分也納入檢查的重點"},{"start":2843.154,"end":2866.319,"text":"那你這些這個授信這個案件的暴雷施加公務航空海外分行有沒有你認為有沒有人為的疏失目前看起來目前看起來沒有什麼特別這個所謂的弊案這種問題就是一般的授信的管理上的問題那你認為還有沒有另外其他因素的影響"},{"start":2868.31,"end":2888.141,"text":"主要因為我想報告委員其實今年有些媒體有報導因為美國的升息加上疫情之後大家對辦公大樓的需求有降低所以這個趨勢讓一些商辦的確是有產生一些問題但是我想我們的銀行基本上對這部分的管理應該是都有做到"},{"start":2888.641,"end":2910.243,"text":"那你會不會因為這幾年疫情啊這個今晚會在整個監理措施過於寬鬆所導致會不會這樣子報告委員不會因為即使是疫情期間我們有許不能夠到當地國去做檢查我們也可以在總行要求提供當地國的相關的資料去做一個檢視"},{"start":2911.175,"end":2939.72,"text":"那這四家公股行庫暴雷以後你們有沒有統計到底他整個損失目前有多少目前大概就是他們可能對方借款戶可能不能夠準時還本付息但是真正的損失我想還要等最後過一段時間才能夠精算但是這個部分我們都有掌握而且有的是在整個監理上都及早就已經注意到這個問題提醒他們去注意"},{"start":2940.16,"end":2959.928,"text":"主委金管會統計國營前三季在美國市場只賺了78.9億元比去年同期有比較減減了4%那更連三季在被新加坡市場超越那獲利成長動人出現疲態的狀況那主委"},{"start":2963.89,"end":2978.963,"text":"針對國營海外分行向這些歐美市場不動產受信狀況暴雷的警訊請問是不是有必要擴大來監理整個國營海外分行受信業務的狀況以免在目前整個國際局勢動盪"},{"start":2981.425,"end":3009.309,"text":"這樣齁?對"},{"start":3010.492,"end":3015.837,"text":"保險業2026年接軌國際整個財務報導的準則第17號IFRS 17那為了達成接軌的目標保險業會面臨比較高風險的這些資本的計算那我請問主委協助保險業接軌過程中最常遇到業者反應的困難到底是什麼"},{"start":3036.44,"end":3057.781,"text":"主要就是我們民國90年以前我們賣了很多高利率保單而且都是終身的那這部分在以現在的制度計算對他們來講在資本上或是在轉換上需要比較多的努力那這部分我們已經在11月23號做了一些緩緩措施那未來還會有進一步下一階段的措施可能明年會陸續公佈"},{"start":3060.043,"end":3068.87,"text":"主委,因為您也曾經說過金管會卡良業者努力的程度與國情的差異在相關敘述與接軌整個條件上讓保險業能夠平穩來接軌"},{"start":3074.855,"end":3102.885,"text":"這樣差別化的一個接軌模式真的符合國際的準則嗎?報告委員因為我們整個的接軌每個國家都一樣這個國際的標準必須也要考慮到國情所以一定會有允許有在地化跟過渡化的措施那我們會考量業者的努力程度做一些差異化的管理因為這些落後一般接軌標準的業者未來儘管會是不是也會要求限期趕上目標會不會?"},{"start":3104.482,"end":3105.923,"text":"據了解,基於國內長期投資工具有限,受請公司的資金"},{"start":3126.773,"end":3148.884,"text":"往投報率較高的海外市場來發展是常態但是國際資本市場劇烈的波動那整個風險相對也比較高再加上這個匯兌這個損益的這個起伏也讓也讓這個授權公司的獲利以及資本都面臨不小的壓力那從1億5年開始這個將接軌IFRS 17"},{"start":3154.895,"end":3176.441,"text":"ICS 2.0．對受選公司的經營．恐怕又是壓力三大請問主委．你認為接軌IFRS 17．這個ICS後．受選業經營．在投資海外市場方面．到底有沒有注意或調整的這些地方"},{"start":3177.341,"end":3194.395,"text":"報告委員您的問題非常非常重要這也是為什麼我們要接軌的目的因為過去我們的保單比較類似儲蓄性質的將來會以死差跟廢差為主為利源的結構所以我覺得這個部分的商品結構的改變會改變我們的保險公司的競爭力"},{"start":3197.837,"end":3214.124,"text":"會對損益是影響獲利重要的原因那請問主委你認為受選公司要如何及時的來掌握這些國內外金融情勢變化的人力呢?我想資產負債管理跟商品結構的調整都很重要"},{"start":3214.98,"end":3232.786,"text":"那對於這個匯率避險啊．國內授權公司是不是都能夠掌握這個策略上的因應我們有外匯價格變動準備金的制度那授權業本身也會有外匯避險的策略我想這部分會齊頭並進這樣齁好 謝謝謝謝委員指導 謝謝好 謝謝各位請回接著請吳秉瑞委員"},{"start":3252.062,"end":3260.184,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會的黃主委黃主委來委員長主委早齁"},{"start":3261.533,"end":3288.263,"text":"要跟你講一個我最近看到的消息這個就是美國眾議院的外交委員會在今年的11月28上個月的28號全票通過這個全票是39位出席的人全部都贊成39比0反對人是0要去檢討香港經濟貿易辦事處的認證法所謂這個檢討就是把他的特殊地位拿掉"},{"start":3289.482,"end":3308.433,"text":"那這個當然只是眾議院的外交委員會下一步就是要進到眾議院如果美國的眾議院跟參議院兩個這個國會啊都照這樣子的狀況去通過之後這個香港在華盛頓"},{"start":3309.847,"end":3337.89,"text":"在紐約在舊金山的三個經貿辦事處恐怕會關閉因為他失去特殊地位他不再有這樣子的外交跟這個經濟的特殊地位那會失去一切的特殊待遇包括獨立關稅的地位會沒有那獨立關稅地位沒有就是回到他就是一個中國的城市也就是說香港百年來的轉口貿易對美國就行不通了香港所有的貨物"},{"start":3339.025,"end":3365.619,"text":"都必須要照美國對中國科的關稅這樣繳稅他不是在對美國而言他不再是一個獨立的這個關稅領域那再來就是他過去還有一個技術轉讓的特殊待遇也沒有了最嚴重的是他在1983年10月17號開始的聯繫匯率制度結束那就是美元跟港元的自由兌換將要終結了"},{"start":3368.291,"end":3393.272,"text":"那當然現在只是第一步但是美國的國會加上美國現在的氛圍這個通過有它的可能性耶所以當這個自由兌換要結束的時候那香港人怎麼辦呢他當然就是拋港元搶美金啊這個就是為什麼最近香港的股市跌跌不休現在跌到現在一萬六千多"},{"start":3395.158,"end":3423.554,"text":"上個禮拜才剛說被台股超過現在就是低於港股一千點啦高點從三萬三掉到現在這樣一萬六千多那我這個就是過去我一直在跟你請教說如果香港有巨變的時候到底我們金管會對我們台灣這麼多的金融機構因為過去就是走世界的潮流跟把香港當作是一個特殊的地方我們在那邊有很多的投資跟很多的曝險"},{"start":3425.319,"end":3454.068,"text":"那如果美國採取這樣的態度之後我們有沒有什麼因應的方案或是現在要預先想假設這個事情半年後一年後成真那怎麼辦有沒有先去預先想這些事情報員我第一點我要非常感謝您分享這麼重要資訊我原來不知道謝謝您告訴我第二點這個事情應該分兩個層面來說明第一個就是法律層面跟國安層面我想因為"},{"start":3454.528,"end":3470.423,"text":"目前我們跟香港澳門的關係是由港澳人民關係條例去規範那這個部分會定位我們跟他的關係所以這部分要陸委會或國安單位去決定那至於您關心實體金融面的部分坦白說這幾年我們除了對大陸的曝血我們關心之外"},{"start":3471.084,"end":3473.045,"text":"主委,我再跟您描述一個狀況,當這個事情如果真的成真的時候,"},{"start":3493.598,"end":3521.343,"text":"港元不是只有搶兌換美金而已他能兌換的他都會兌換因為港元以後就是跟美元脫鉤了嘛那他以後也不能自由兌換所以他可能就會馬上有這個跟其他地方兌換的問題那也有可能另外當然我們這個不是一個很大的管道但是也可能趕快兌換台幣然後趕快再用台幣要轉兌換成其他的貨幣要跑掉啊"},{"start":3522.113,"end":3550.163,"text":"因為如果這個陳真你可以想像香港的資金絕對是大量的出逃嘛留在那邊幹嘛就是潤啊就跑啦跑了之後才能夠維持啊如果還留在那邊就是等死啊那些資本那香港是一個這麼大的這麼大的一個地方有人以前就在問說為什麼共產黨早年不把香港收回他說因為他要留下一個對世界對界的櫥窗"},{"start":3551.61,"end":3575.987,"text":"是只有習近平太傻啊用反送中的法案讓香港雨傘革命之後用這樣子的讓香港失去了這樣子的經濟創創這個地位然後美中關係不斷的惡化弄到美國國會現在講說那你這個我一步一步的收把過去給你的這些的權利都逐步逐步給你收回了眼看這樣香港有可能變成一個"},{"start":3577.418,"end":3598.056,"text":"跟過去我們所知道的香港是一個完全不一樣的地位跟狀況我希望我們金管會這邊真的要好好的構思萬一發生這樣的狀況而且我認為這個萬一是有可能會發生的不是在說以前講一講的時候距離還很遠現在是一步一步在接近"},{"start":3599.717,"end":3625.342,"text":"這個要先想好不然的話萬一出現緊急的狀況可能我們應變會來不及委員謝謝您的指導我們有待思考這些問題再來就是要請教說跟今天有關的是保險業的資金收入其實每年累積但是這兩三年有注意到它的淨收益率有逐年在下滑"},{"start":3627.692,"end":3638.462,"text":"就是保費的成長不像以前那麼快保費成長但是你保費你保險公司要拿保費去投資啊你那個投資以前你投資的收益還有4%4.5%這兩年降到剩下3.6%剩下3.2%"},{"start":3642.586,"end":3662.806,"text":"因為他賄損的部分這部分對他來講是一個大的影響所以你認為這是短期現象而不是一個長期現象如果譬如說美國的利率如果降了這些東西可以緩解你的意思是這樣嗎?利率的升降都各有得失"},{"start":3664.628,"end":3686.743,"text":"去年突然升息那麼高的確評價上對於保險公司有一些影響對金融業都有影響那上次在這邊請教您的時候也是問到說現在因為避險因為為了這個匯率為了這個利率避險的這個成本這麼的高我們如何每年被光是避險成本就荒掉幾千億"},{"start":3688.072,"end":3716.063,"text":"那這個有什麼方式是可以稍微降的嗎?有沒有什麼樣的方法?其實跟委員報告短期內當然透過避險策略或會價格變動準備金可是實體的問題是因為保險業因為國內沒有比較深跟廣的固定收益市場必須投資美國所以必須要就是要承受這個匯率的波動所以如果商品結構改成不要那麼多透過利差的收益而是多死差廢差的話"},{"start":3717.236,"end":3717.496,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3734.58,"end":3757.163,"text":"包括我們對保險法．對公共建設這方面．給保險公司比較多的空間．包括也許下個會期審查．投信投顧法．對於這個Rates．部分固定收益的這個商品．能夠讓保險公司多投資．我們也會檢討相關．對於創投或私募基金．這些相關投資的標底．讓保險公司留在國內．有更多的投資的標底"},{"start":3757.83,"end":3757.97,"text":"主席"},{"start":3778.812,"end":3779.052,"text":"最後再請教一個問題"},{"start":3801.141,"end":3827.326,"text":"金融評議中心他今天承接了非常多的案子那前幾年因為疫情的關係當然有一些保單的一些問題所以他很忙啦使得很多因為金融糾紛而要去金融這個評議中心請求協助評議的案子時間上有所點綴有所拖延那如何讓他的這個效率能夠增加然後這個不要"},{"start":3828.57,"end":3828.95,"text":"賴斯保委員"},{"start":3863.803,"end":3869.584,"text":"副委員長副委員長今天的題目有關於IFRS 17的部分那你的報告我讀了一下你提到我們在115年才要結構是"},{"start":3893.476,"end":3911.443,"text":"報告寫的英國、歐盟、加拿大這些國家包括中國、大陸的A股在112年就接軌了然後其他的國家包括泰國、印尼、柬埔寨、斯里蘭卡、菲律賓這些國家看起來都比我們"},{"start":3912.816,"end":3925.527,"text":"就是以GDP來講的話經濟實力比我們差很多的啊他們也要114年去接軌啊為什麼我們要115年啊?我們這麼寒冷是怎樣?為什麼這樣子啊?對不對?講一下為什麼我們把時間定在這麼後面?"},{"start":3928.427,"end":3928.567,"text":"主席"},{"start":3958.987,"end":3975.836,"text":"對,但是跟委員報告,因為但是去年因為美國升息,所以帶動了升息,所以目前來講對於接軌上相對來講難度低一點,但另外一部分就是我剛報告中有說過,因為還有系統的建築等等,這都需要時間。"},{"start":3976.996,"end":4001.552,"text":"我只是看到你這份報告我就百思不得其解當然除了你剛剛講的那個原因可是那個原因你現在自己幫他補上來了因為美國的利率大幅跳升所以這個難度要降低一點我們怕他倒掉了嘛就是過去這個虧損太大了這個我們了解但是我看了心裡就是在那裡犯低估啊"},{"start":4013.223,"end":4025.474,"text":"臺灣的保險密度跟滲透度在國際間都是數一數二的但是我們的那個保單的成分很多都是儲蓄性質的那以這種公允價值計價的話他調整的成本比較大"},{"start":4026.055,"end":4054.423,"text":"你所謂的公允價值講一個大家白話穩了就用市價吧就是市價公允公允就是市價市價來反映IFRS 17是針對授權公司嗎針對授權公司保險公司的負債那就是資產負債通通用市價來比如說某一家金庫他有一個授權"},{"start":4056.038,"end":4061.787,"text":"他的公司現在他的帳面價值10塊錢可是他在股市裡面只有8塊那他賺到啊"},{"start":4068.075,"end":4093.573,"text":"是這個意思嗎?就是用市價去決定你目前的資產跟負債?是啦!沒有啦!你還是沒回答!用市價啦!對!你還是沒回答問題啦!我重點要問的是你其他那些理由我都沒有意見啦!我要問的理由是我們有沒有可能提早一點啦!輸給這些國家我覺得你說輸給英國、歐盟就算了!對不對?"},{"start":4095.555,"end":4101.205,"text":"這個大陸A股我沒有輸當然這個輸贏有沒有意義啦我是說找這個結果有沒有意義啦請問你"},{"start":4102.704,"end":4131.349,"text":"其實本來國際財報準則這兩個公報分開去接軌本來就有一些人有意見因為資產跟負債應該同時匹配才對但它後面的負債比較晚公佈那台灣的確是因為過去這些老保單的問題需要比較多的時間去調整這也是跟工會討論過的結果所以一般藝術人確定沒辦法提倡我想目前就是循序漸進的去做朝這個方向去做"},{"start":4132.971,"end":4144.947,"text":"致詢問問,最近股市APP都當機了,9月到11月連續三次,大公司自己開發的APP"},{"start":4146.203,"end":4172.329,"text":"都當機了儘管問你不要只有開罰儘管問有沒有其他做法就是這個APP當機啊因為現在大家習慣在APP上面操作有時候當沖來幹什麼的話很靈活很方便結果都當機一當可能幾十分鐘半個小時所以你們今天你除了罰啦你除了罰以外有沒有其他的做法比如說怎麼樣"},{"start":4174.102,"end":4199.126,"text":"幫助他們加強資安的問題啊各位委員報告我們的資安被駭客啊等等啊是委員您的問題非常重要那但是一般來講分兩個層次交易所本來今年就辦了很多資安的會議包括券商那今晚會本身也有資安行動方案對券商要求資安那這部分的問題也許就是個案但是政情局都有密切注意這些問題這個確實發生嗎有那個局長要說明一下好說明下來"},{"start":4204.309,"end":4228.85,"text":"我們舉個例子,跟委員報告一下,其實我們都有要求,現在你只要停有斷、當機的現象的話,那交所就會去查核他,那把他這個系統的問題做一個調整之後改善,才讓他恢復。有沒有對他扣分,還是說警告,還是什麼的,有沒有?應該交所會用划眼的方式啊。就罰錢?對,罰錢的方式。啊我們能不能另類的?"},{"start":4230.373,"end":4232.574,"text":"我記得沒有當機是因為normal狀況應該正常的企業應該"},{"start":4258.603,"end":4285.734,"text":"我自己只要答說我們在建商的公平代課原則裡面就要求你本身內控系統都要做得很好那之後有好的話我們就會有表揚每年我們都會固定表揚有固定表揚表揚不是委員那個局長的意思就是說其實現在資安就是一種作業上的一些疏失已經會納入公平代課的原則去做評鑑所以每年都有做評鑑所以這個符合您的期待跟要求"},{"start":4288.323,"end":4311.719,"text":"最後一個我想跟你提一下現在COP28在世界上正在開會這個他們有一個重要的題目你看我的題目比較後面一點國際他們要建立國際的交易機制那你們呢我們現在是你們的政務"},{"start":4315.487,"end":4331.766,"text":"8月7日成立但是你們只做一個事只做諮詢就是你來talk talk 跟你談一談我就問你明確的相關的執法什麼時候要送來"},{"start":4332.964,"end":4353.223,"text":"報告委員他不是只有做諮詢大概今年12月22號就開始營業但他一開始只是做把歐洲的一些這些碳減碳的這個量跟國內去做撮合有在做那個是另外等一下問你想去問你有沒有相關的執法有沒有"},{"start":4354.483,"end":4372.395,"text":"指法應該是環境部因為這個我們成立探交一所是根據氣候邊界因應法36條去訂定的那所以指法是在環境部那裡在環境部那裡他大概什麼時候可以出來你知道嗎?不知道他什麼時候可以出來知道嗎?他陸續會出來這是現階段局長要報告一下細節"},{"start":4376.31,"end":4403.065,"text":"跟委員報告有關於我們碳交易所的這些交易制度我們也送給環境部來審議那他目前已經同意了所以很快就會對外來發布那其他的環境保護的這些相望法規我想環境部他本身有他的內部的政策現在我跟你講喔CVAM歐盟那部分是所有的包括台灣你東西賣到歐洲去一定要有碳的"},{"start":4405.182,"end":4406.223,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":4430.658,"end":4450.137,"text":"你現在交易的對象你只有撮合國外的探權國外探權是兩個概念喔比如說現在泰國有探權要賣給新加坡在台灣這裡交易還是說我台積電或者有個公司我到泰國是買探權來這裡交易到底什麼情況"},{"start":4451.175,"end":4451.775,"text":"所以等於說台積電以後不需要跑到國外去買"},{"start":4471.886,"end":4475.43,"text":"目前要依照環境部規範目前不在碳交易所的交易架構下"},{"start":4491.809,"end":4517.547,"text":"是 那我們現在我剛剛回過來跟你們講COP24一個關鍵議題是那這個要加入他們希望建立探圈的國際交易制度那我們現在我們現在已經有交易所了啊那麼怎麼樣Join國際的市場有沒有想過這個問題報告委員這就是您指導的地方就是我們這樣努力的地方要準備怎麼努力就一步一步加入這種國際的市場對"},{"start":4520.314,"end":4541.71,"text":"國際現在是幾行因為這樣有點複雜了因為他又牽涉到是不是聯合國的會員等等但是現在有學者提出來了人家歐盟也這樣做了歐盟想要做要推一個公約推不動後來改成氣候的俱樂部俱樂部我們就可以加入了就沒有國的限制了"},{"start":4543.097,"end":4543.958,"text":"謝謝各位請回 接著請郭國文委員"},{"start":4579.745,"end":4605.011,"text":"主席有請黃主委黃主委來委員長主委好主委我想針對今天的主席有關在地措施跟過渡期的問題我們知道韓國也有這個過渡期大約10年我們拉長到15年兩國的體制當然是不太相同那是不是意味著臺灣需要增資的金額比較高"},{"start":4607.446,"end":4622.971,"text":"的確我們不是真就是我們過去老保單積累的比較多6以上的保單積累的比較多所以說主要是高利保單喔是主要關鍵因素是高利保單那如果是高利保單的話要讓這26家受選公司都合規的話"},{"start":4623.911,"end":4646.132,"text":"那高利保專比較多應該是在老八家那幾家嘛就是剩下這六家這邊嘛占的比例應該是比較高委員您指導的對其實外資的或是中小型的通常是80年以後成立的比較少比較少那我再抓了一下就國泰、中壽、南山、新光、台壽、全球這六家業者占的資產比例是整個壽險業者的大約是67%高達七成"},{"start":4649.435,"end":4650.096,"text":"社會的交代"},{"start":4667.011,"end":4684.127,"text":"其實跟委員報告我們在11月23號是個15年是給了他優惠措施50個base point之後那給他15年但是中間還會有定期跟不定期的檢討你有定期你分了沒有限定期一次我有看到"},{"start":4684.867,"end":4707.122,"text":"那問題是你要用什麼方式讓他們能夠真正的在15年裡頭完成呢?我是好奇這一點因為這15年如果從一個反向的思考來看的話那會炒的孩子有堂吃要把他延長到15年那如果乖化的孩子呢你有沒有可能給你獎勵呢?譬如講你15年分成三個階段ABC三個階段那前面5年的部分你有沒有給他什麼樣的誘因或獎勵?"},{"start":4709.684,"end":4735.199,"text":"委員您這個用語我非常認同不能說炒的小孩才有糖吃一定要很公平你努力多少努力的多我給的多努力的少我就給的少我非常贊成你的想法我們就是要業者提出自主改進方案然後這個方案不是只有我在的時候會去分析用什麼誘因Maybe你給35年或許大家覺得誘因很好前5年全部都達成了有沒有可能主委"},{"start":4735.299,"end":4752.265,"text":"報告委員這就是我們現階段要跟工會去討論讓他們心服口服建立一個機制就是差異化你做的你努力的多我後面當然要差異化啊主委不然我大家等到幫習近平那天就一直在stand by等待下一個15年"},{"start":4753.805,"end":4765.674,"text":"委員您的關切就是我們的關切我們也不希望有這種套利的問題你用出什麼樣的法寶嗎這個目前已經有一些想法還要繼續跟工會討論我問了你當然要透露一下啊比方說就是 這個局長來說明好了"},{"start":4774.951,"end":4792.221,"text":"我們現在正在跟公會討論那比方說如果增資或者是他能夠強化資本的話這個部分我們會給他一些誘因另外就是他的商品結構轉型他能夠多推CSM高一點你的誘因具體是什麼這個部分還在討論當中"},{"start":4797.569,"end":4814.62,"text":"就是不講不為難主委我再請教一您我想有沒有誘因我建議一個誘因來試看看好不好就是說因為我發現這幾年那個售險公司的那個公件的這一個部分的投資有往上攀升"},{"start":4815.501,"end":4839.384,"text":"在2022年的話大概是440而已,但是這相對資本規模來說還不是很大但是如果我們最重要的原因呢,受險公司我們都知道他在國內找不到標的,在國外投資的比例過高,那負險過高,形成一個結構性的困難那一直想要透過供應的方式來做處理,那現階段我們的整個財政部在整個促參的部分也做一些提升跟調整"},{"start":4839.784,"end":4867.389,"text":"那未來我們的REITS也有可能對不對像這種搭配的情況底下我們譬如講我找到一個像我們目前將來修法當中的REITS投資的比例佔比就公件的部分是10%我舉一個例子其他的地方類似這種東西你看到他投資標的每一個受選公司都可以來投嘛但是如果他的體質比較好我是不是可以有一個優惠條款提升到15%或怎樣類似這樣子有沒有可能"},{"start":4867.469,"end":4867.729,"text":"明年6月"},{"start":4887.93,"end":4889.031,"text":"政策性的公建我們的風險係數是維持到1.28%"},{"start":4907.581,"end":4924.846,"text":"當然你在第一波階段的時候的這個在地化措施的時候你認為1.28要維持但是有沒有可能因為獎勵的因素讓整個資金能夠快速的流到這個公建的這個可能性稍微再微調下降的可能性有沒有可能"},{"start":4925.326,"end":4949.222,"text":"這個我想委員的指教我們會跟工會再討論對 因為這樣的東西你才能讓整個資金結構性的困境來做一個調整嘛不是嗎我想這個係數的考慮尤其是對於國家的重要公共建設我想我們會做考量特別本席一直強調是軌道運輸啦因為出產的部分一直在想長照啦冷鏈啦冷鏈國家預算已經投入很多軌道建設的部分資金的這個那個門檻"},{"start":4950.123,"end":4954.846,"text":"請主委費心另外一個部分主委我看最近有一個很破例的說法金融機關不能受理代辦業者的案件這層出不窮的問題斷然措施真的可以解決這個問題嗎"},{"start":4973.187,"end":4989.137,"text":"這是因為我們相關的局收到一些澄清函或是看到一些我自己都看到一些稿告巧逆門幕、詐騙、個資外洩用合法來掩飾非法這典型的做法嘛"},{"start":4990.251,"end":5006.505,"text":"對,所以我們擔心消費者受騙或是受到不公平的對,那你上個代辦公室把這個砍掉之後那代辦公室會消失匿蹤嗎?我們盡我們的努力當然希望民眾都是跟正當的金融機構去往來了"},{"start":5007.952,"end":5024.662,"text":"就直接不要找代辦就直接找金融公司那金融公司的這個通路也要比較流暢嘛但是取代金融機關的部分呢不是只有代辦公司這個功能而已啦還有融資公司啦融資公司本席就問過你好幾次了嘛融資公司的爭議也蠻多的欸"},{"start":5026.403,"end":5042.635,"text":"主委我就沒有看到很斷然的措施一年以前300件現在350件是節節上升每天都在爆發這個問題也曾經出過額外費用的問題我問過您之後呢你們在行政院以後嚇有其事的開過一次會後來就沒消沒洗了"},{"start":5044.207,"end":5059.786,"text":"這個牽涉比較廣而且也有牽涉到一些比較素質不是很好的類似的公司所以大家有些顧慮是啊所以你這個就沒有辦法像代辦公室一刀切了嘛沒有一刀切那你要怎麼處理後來就沒消息啦"},{"start":5061.391,"end":5063.132,"text":"暫時我們還是維持現在的狀況,我們希望強化金融機構的服務。"},{"start":5082.772,"end":5092.763,"text":"目前沒有進一步的處理沒有進一步的處理那之所以會這樣考量你也跟我不要講結果你跟我講一個理由嘛讓我心服口服一下嘛好不好"},{"start":5094.649,"end":5094.789,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5114.838,"end":5115.639,"text":"主委最後一題就教於您的"},{"start":5131.63,"end":5148.521,"text":"那個詐騙的問題很嚴重之前我有提就請教你有些人主詐的成績你們都用實體的部分鈴貴信用這個部分但是問題是還有包括這個信用卡網路銀行電子支付"},{"start":5149.361,"end":5164.853,"text":"我們想要知道說到底這些這個網路虛擬的這種詐騙的程度多大看不出相關的數據只有間接性的指標就少提供所謂的這個虛擬帳號等等類似只有這樣子但是絕對的金額看不到"},{"start":5165.934,"end":5180.965,"text":"如果沒有這些絕對金額一來不知道問題的嚴重性二來也不知道你付出了多少努力這個沒有可能做一次性的公布或相關的統計讓國人知道我們有具體的打詐或者是需要提醒的地方"},{"start":5181.385,"end":5206.566,"text":"委員謝謝您的指導那因為包括我們自己有很多在臨櫃或是相關的這個主詐的成績是從警政署那邊得來的我們會您指導了之後我們會跟警政署那邊聯繫看其他這幾個通路有沒有可能有具體的數字我們也讓外界知道對就是說實體的部分之外其他虛擬的通路的部分也要一併公佈是這樣才能讓事情的真相能夠完整的呈現請主委會議謝謝謝謝委員指導謝謝"},{"start":5210.95,"end":5211.591,"text":"主席黃主委"},{"start":5226.294,"end":5249.594,"text":"主委好那個剛才郭委員請教你的時候說這個執政的這個結果讓他們這個執政黨的委員承受責任這樣不好啦所以顯見上面來講其實對於執政的成效來講執政黨的委員也頗有維持啦那我第一個問題要請教說過往呢在民間他感受到的就是說該管的東西不管"},{"start":5250.515,"end":5270.032,"text":"然後不該管的東西呢,細節的部分呢,你介入太多,因為你細節的部分呢,你管太多,當然你的人員沒有時間去做該管的事情嘛。我們就舉例來講說,這個寄送帳單的部分,這個還是小事喔。那麼講說像那個什麼你的公司治理啊,3.0的部分,"},{"start":5271.773,"end":5298.874,"text":"外面的專業的評鑑機構評鑑過了不算然後你還要你們的這個人員然後來決定他有沒有得一分得兩分主委你有沒有覺得這個東西實在是不該管的管太多你怎麼有辦法去管這麼多的這個事情那真正該管的事情呢比如說詐騙的東西我覺得我已經從這邊詐騙的問題一年之前我就提醒了但是這個網路詐騙的情況呢到現在為止他沒有舒緩"},{"start":5299.514,"end":5301.475,"text":"他沒有舒緩所以我們看到應該管的東西呢你不管還有什麼應該管的東西呢就包括包括我們現在講的說這個IFRS 17．ICS．這個部分怎麼樣讓我們跟國際能夠接軌的部分你這麼慢連東南亞國家其實都比我們來得快了"},{"start":5318.26,"end":5338.765,"text":"那這些的東西能夠讓我們跟全球能夠接軌的部分呢反而是遲緩的可是我們再看看洗錢的部分洗錢其實你一直以來就是洗錢的一個單位可是我們看到洗錢的部分呢就虛擬資產的部分你管了嗎然後我們看到就是說我要請教token的部分你管了嗎"},{"start":5339.943,"end":5340.183,"text":"黃主任委員會主席"},{"start":5358.411,"end":5379.381,"text":"用存摺去匯錢到國外去行員還要問說你存摺的錢從哪裡來的存摺的錢除了是你的薪水你的這個收入之外他錢還會從哪裡來的呢他不是都一筆一筆清清楚楚的在那邊這些東西雞毛蒜皮的事情你要管但是該管的東西你透過token洗錢有沒有可能 主委"},{"start":5380.307,"end":5409.297,"text":"是有可能好,那你管了沒有?報告委員,金管會在組織條例中規定是管合法的金融機構所以Token的洗錢你不管?我們是管金融機構的防治洗錢所以Token的洗錢你不管?我第三次問我們沒有管你們沒有管,那誰管?在你的行政單位裡面有任何的機關去管這個Token的洗錢嗎?我想這個業務上有其他的單位會負責其他單位是誰?"},{"start":5410.697,"end":5410.717,"text":"是誰?"},{"start":5415.327,"end":5439.784,"text":"我想就是檢警掉這些都是查辦犯罪的單位所以檢警掉不辦所以造成今天的情況之下你只管合法的銀行的其他的虛擬貨幣的黑市的部分你完全都不管地下錢莊的你也完全都不管那你去管合法的部分雞毛蒜皮的事情管這麼多的話能夠解決我們今天所面臨的社會問題嗎"},{"start":5442.527,"end":5458.432,"text":"你認為可不可以?就是說你只管今天只要是守法的人你雞毛蒜皮的事拼命地下然後不守法的人你雙手一攤然後這個你就可以解決問題就像剛剛其中我們講的一個問題就是這個貸款仲介的這個部分"},{"start":5459.292,"end":5477.437,"text":"人家需要錢的時候你認為主委你認為他除了從地下錢莊那也不歸你管嘛對不對你剛講合法金融的部分地下錢莊也不歸你管嘛是不是然後呢他除了地下錢莊之外他除了這個仲介的部分他能夠怎麼樣然後我最近還聽說啊這個民間的反應啦民間反應就講說"},{"start":5481.958,"end":5498.625,"text":"當這個銀行呢他要給這個呃這個貸款的人呢當他認為他不符合資格不能夠給他的時候呢然後他們只要去跟你申訴的話然後他就會扣點扣一點然後呢這個銀行呢就要給他是這樣子嗎是真的有這樣的情形嗎我覺得這不是事實"},{"start":5499.805,"end":5528.817,"text":"這不是事實那反正就是說不是事實的話那就是民間的這個訊息是錯誤那你是不是應該要釐清呢但是我也實際上面知道的情形呢其實也不只是這個啦還包括這個繼承的部分呢你只要就是說它不符合標定的規準比如說它跟財政部申報的東西不一樣然後到你這邊來申訴的時候全部都開大門所以簡單來講呢就是你是不是讓全國它是一個兩套標準的情況"},{"start":5530.311,"end":5554.677,"text":"委員的指教我們虛心檢討不是虛心檢討你應該坐在前面而不是在後面我們是監督政府我們不是鞭策你的了解 謝謝委員我知道 謝謝委員指導那你知道之後那你現在告訴我你現在金管會要做什麼事情貿民的事情你管不管貿民詐騙的部分你管不管要看是不是在我們比方說投資的管道上面"},{"start":5555.601,"end":5580.609,"text":"所以就是說你只管合法的人非法的人不歸你管所以你認為他是檢調單位該管洗錢的部分除了透過銀行洗錢之外其他的你不管哪個呆子透過銀行洗錢我們在防治洗錢的規範上除了金融機構之外還有包括融資性住任公司的洗錢也是我們在管那token洗錢你管不管這個我們沒有管沒有管那你有反應嗎你們橫向不溝通的"},{"start":5581.707,"end":5587.377,"text":"我們防治洗錢上有中央的部會在協調我再問你一下我們再換個方式問 個資你管不管"},{"start":5588.308,"end":5617.023,"text":"各資管金融機構的各資其他的各資你不管但是因為金融機構的部分我們光光看到保險業它就已經因為保險業洩漏出去的各資的資料就高達36筆裡面還不光銀行業這個還是你財儲的部分沒有財儲的部分的案件又更多那怎麼你管出來的部分是越管越多人民的各資洩漏出去人民的各資洩漏出去之後你有沒有通知被洩漏的各資的個人呢"},{"start":5617.605,"end":5631.077,"text":"我們有要求銀行要去通知那銀行通知了沒有呢?他們會照我們的意思去通知這個我們後面都有列管的你們都有列管,你多少追蹤一次?比方說被裁罰的銀行就要求他提出改善報告"},{"start":5632.718,"end":5647.671,"text":"改善的部分我們看看審計部給你的資料顯示這個顯示出來你這個金融機構共同的資安的缺失是高達了12件這個還是非常非常保守的一個估計那這些的問題解決了嗎?這是111年度的所以到現在來講已經是舊的事情你解決了什麼呢?"},{"start":5656.274,"end":5675.345,"text":"這個資安的問題是不斷的再去努力去改進的不是,你這個是形容詞嘛我們看到,我再幫你回答好了資安的問題你解決了什麼問題你做了什麼樣的因應的措施主委你應該很自豪的講說我規定上市櫃公司通通都要設置資安長然後呢?你設置了資安長之後怎麼樣呢?解決了什麼樣的問題呢?這個12項的缺失解決了什麼呢?主委"},{"start":5684.522,"end":5708.963,"text":"金融機構一定規模都有設資安長所以東西只要設了一個職位問題就會自動消失設資安長的意思是有更多的資源跟權責去要求他去做好資安工作所以就是你的職責是說你下命令下規定要做的人就是民間該做是這樣的意思是不是金管會有一部分是掌舵華獎是金融機構要去做的"},{"start":5709.445,"end":5710.086,"text":"主任委員"},{"start":5731.821,"end":5736.084,"text":"要看情況,國安資訊不應該你厲害你這是違反全球的潮流OECD就講說政府的資訊應該要公開透明,不是嗎?美國的SEC就相當於我們的這個金管會美國它在強調的也是一個資訊的公開透明那現在是你政府的資訊都不公開透明可是你要求老百姓的資訊要公開透明這合理嗎?"},{"start":5759.557,"end":5767.622,"text":"我說的是政府資金也有分類不是說所有都可以公開的你符合國家機密保護法你不是在浪費這個時間就是在這個甩鍋嗎那我請問你啊那你認為就是說我們的銀行我們的負險的高低這個是符合國家機密保護法嗎"},{"start":5780.911,"end":5782.553,"text":"主委 還不是從你的官網我們從媒體上面看出來然後我們把這些的曝險的部分加起來是1.46兆"},{"start":5807.113,"end":5834.434,"text":"這個數字很小,是不是?報告,這個負險就是它的資產的額度嘛這個負險的險跟那個risk其實不能夠等同,這就是風險對啊,那你為什麼不把我們現在所有的東西做一個統計的在你的官網上面然後你再告訴別人說負險跟實際上面的風險是兩回事情你可以在你的官網上面,這不是也是一個教育的方式嗎?"},{"start":5835.054,"end":5836.554,"text":"目前我們是有同意我們法規上是有"},{"start":5852.949,"end":5875.955,"text":"提議併購所以你是贊成還是不贊成法規有是有但是你是鼓勵還是你是反對提供制度市場上自己決定所以你是也不贊成也不反對那我請問一下既然你是不贊成也不反對為什麼會有這些符合提議併購的資格的銀行是不能夠公佈的"},{"start":5877.295,"end":5878.355,"text":"我們有公布,我們前兩天有公布有幾家有符合有公布"},{"start":5897.298,"end":5898.72,"text":"前兩天記者會還有一些條件有公佈"},{"start":5907.523,"end":5907.763,"text":"中嘉賓委員"},{"start":5938.772,"end":5946.961,"text":"主席．在場的委員先進．列席的政府機關所長．官員．會長．工作夥伴．媒體記者．女士先生．有請黃主委和銀行局莊局長兩位請"},{"start":5951.519,"end":5980.052,"text":"是委員長也請那個張局長一起來好 主委好兩位局長好那主委剛剛委員有在關心啦其實昨天的經濟日報頭版也說美國的商辦爆雷啊國營有四家有曝險那這裡面我比較關切的是所謂的商辦來我要請教一下那主委那麼我們國內的國營啊不動產放款的集中度開始回升目前國營的不動產的放款大概有多少的規模"},{"start":5981.311,"end":5981.751,"text":"根據銀行法第27條之二"},{"start":6002.64,"end":6024.346,"text":"主宰建築及企業建築的放緩不得超過銀行放緩餘額及金融財源發行總額的30%所以目前我們從去年的6月從27.19因為政府在例行打炒房他這個放緩的餘額慢慢降低雖然降低不到1%但是1%就很多了13兆多1%是多少"},{"start":6027.198,"end":6050.805,"text":"十三 一千三百多億嘛 是不是這樣 是那這個時候呢 又回升了 現在六個月後又回升了那其中呢 接近這個警戒線的29% 有一家是哪一家特定行我直接告訴你是新展啦 是新展嘛那另外28 29%的有四家已經接近百分之三十了 是哪四家知道嗎"},{"start":6052.438,"end":6064.193,"text":"這位應該知道 不過會後可以查給更委的報告好 那你們對於這些接近緊接需的銀行有沒有什麼對策啊因為他對不動產放款的集中度這麼高已經接近了我們法律的上限你們有什麼對策"},{"start":6067.313,"end":6089.703,"text":"這個定期都有報表去瞭解如果超過就會去...當然不能超過啊接近就要注意了我們看一下為什麼要關心這一題呢因為呢 近期來因為升息通膨全球的建商都發生倒閉潮啊日本啊單單是上半年就破產了789家建商瑞典前半個月公司為有5000多家澳洲呢有1700家進入破產程序德國439家英國4280家都破產或申請破產"},{"start":6095.325,"end":6115.678,"text":"中國最嚴重十大建商有9家跳票或破產還好沒有跳樓留下一堆爛尾樓因為升息他的資金成本提高通膨他物料人力上漲好那我們來看台灣呢台灣說還好欸台灣說怎樣房市不會崩盤但是我們很緊張啊最近供料雙漲雖然台灣通膨較低我們的升息較和緩"},{"start":6116.579,"end":6141.028,"text":"但是呢只要建案賠錢就可能二薪倒閉而舉例來講最近供料雙漲以臺北市的營業成本漲了一倍從十萬五到二十五萬全台的營業成本從每坪九萬到每坪十五萬也漲了八成那土建融的利息呢是央行升息其他還有地主的租金補貼來經常費用稅金等等等建商如果沒有利潤會賠錢還是二薪倒閉那現在有沒有呢跟你說有"},{"start":6142.268,"end":6164.717,"text":"現在臺灣的預售屋啊臺北市北投區大同區呢有兩個危老的預售案我上次就問過了營運困難停止興建那臺北市政府還特別發稿啊發新聞稿說這兩個建案呢受你信託的跟瑞興行要找廠商來續建那如果沒有續建找不到人續建就變成爛尾了齁那請問目前有多少建築融資案環系不正常有沒有掌握"},{"start":6166.028,"end":6192.278,"text":"這部分我不太清楚我們來看一下房屋稅條例通過之後就有一個利空根據不動產的研究專家說如果公設資本額跟建案總銷售的落差過大表示他的財務槓很大碰上升息或者利空什麼叫利空房屋稅條例所謂的囤房稅2.0對於建商持有的餘額增加持有成本那他可能會倒閉或跑路那我們來看一下"},{"start":6193.078,"end":6221.5,"text":"那是不是你可以來告訴我們定期介入目前建築融資的預放金額知道嗎?目前建築融資的預放金額多少?這零點零點幾?零點一六?零點零六零點零六那是總金額多少?正常是多少?我舉例以圖銀來講啦我只看到一個數字七月底呢它的不動產預放較去年同期增加了1.35億1.35億到底是多還是少啊?"},{"start":6223.495,"end":6245.476,"text":"有沒有特別的波動?你們有沒有清楚?其實我們在前年2021開始就開始對比較集中度在建築業放款的銀行都有做管理那你去年有在管理嘛,所以去年哪幾家知道嘛?那今年哪幾家也知道嘛?銀行局長都知道嘛?可以告訴大家嗎?老實講一家新展,另外四家呢?"},{"start":6245.916,"end":6258.016,"text":"新產是因為合併的關係對啦合併嘛 推特你就講嘛講了大家就放心了嘛你不講大家就想說新產是不是有問題啊那另外四家呢這個是銀行局在列管的我想可能不太適合對外講"},{"start":6259.563,"end":6283.984,"text":"說明一下報告委員我們其實是對建築放款就是現在委員關心的這個部分我們對建築放款集中度過高的銀行我們其實一直都有在列管當中打從兩年以前他們其實我們會針對這些銀行請他報那個改善的計畫是那哪些諮詢會介入包括說你們定期介入銀行融資的餘放金額都有介入嗎"},{"start":6284.758,"end":6309.033,"text":"我們那個建築放款那個就是預放的金額跟比率其實對外定期都會有說明啦有嗎或是整體的是整體的對不是特別銀行你看就是你們還是擔心公布了個案恐怕就有壓力是不是那好那就算我們不知道消費大眾不知道只要整體那你們可不可以針對怕我們有爆雷啊第三波不動產的專案經檢可以開始著手進行了嗎"},{"start":6313.005,"end":6335.672,"text":"一致都有做我講專案經檢不是定期經檢現在我們看到最近這六個月又上升了有沒有必要發動一下了解一下我們請檢察局參考我的意見現在的預售屋他都用信託倒閉的壓力回到信託行我們看看大概有這五種這是定期賣企業所說的第一種是加薪緩帆這個消費者買的"},{"start":6338.8,"end":6356.045,"text":"這預售屋的價金放在金融機構然後工程款在過戶前竟然不能動用消費者如果出了問題全數拿回大概沒有建商會採用這個方法啦比較常看到的是不動產的開發信託跟價金信託兩者的差別一個是有信託業者介入而且他的動資的價金的範圍比較多"},{"start":6358.486,"end":6377.67,"text":"這大概是現在市場的主流至於同業連帶擔保子公司跟母公司來連帶擔保這種情況好像在船上我跟另外一個大胖子綁在一起船沉了兩個一起沉這個保障不多至於公衛連帶擔保那就更不用講了好 那請問一下目前這些資訊採取不動產開發信託跟加薪信託的這是誰在掌握勾選這種信託機制的內政部 對不對"},{"start":6386.384,"end":6412.498,"text":"那你們銀行局會不會知道?今晚會不會知道?我們有跟內政部討論某些信託的契約內容有討論,很好,現在就是讓你們加緊行動了,往下看所以呢,如果信託行找了半天找不到廠商續建,他土地會拍賣停止興建,找續建,續建沒有,土地拍賣,拍賣金額不夠,不夠償還銀行金額那可能建屋跟消費者就拿不回他的預售物款項你說的新產銀行,已經發生了嘛"},{"start":6413.078,"end":6438.196,"text":"他已經有發生過這樣的情況交給法院委託臺灣資產服務公司做公開拍賣好那這是可能發生的情況那往下看那不動產信託的機制有沒有強化的方向當我們現在看到往回跳這五種方式目前市場的主流這兩種方式有沒有無法因應接下來未來當"},{"start":6440.661,"end":6461.857,"text":"讓委發聲當利息出生或利空出的時候建商承受不起那你們怎麼樣去對這些不動產放款集中度較高銀行或者未來協助他們不動產開發業者跟消費者訂約的時候怎麼樣對事後的處理機制做一些比較好的 你說有跟內政部討論過那現在情況怎麼樣"},{"start":6464.119,"end":6478.1,"text":"有 其實有關履約保證部分有時候讓購物者也許會誤會說這個保證是有什麼性質其實它那個資金的使用很多是建商也可以用這些在契約條款上我們都有跟內政部在溝通那有沒有要進行修改"},{"start":6478.988,"end":6498.011,"text":"我們嘗試希望能夠做一些調整有沒有跟內政部定一個期限因為我們很擔心現在事先預警在其他國家已經發生了台灣會不會發生我們不能等到發生了再來著手我建議金管會趕快的跟內政部就這些萬一爆了"},{"start":6498.952,"end":6523.297,"text":"後續的情況消費者的損失會降到最低目前市場主流那兩種不然是不動產開發信託還是價金信託價金信託當然是比較有保障這兩者的差異能不能盡速的縮小或者說未來採取什麼樣必要的包括說企業的修改或引注一事項有沒有在做後續決定出什麼時候要來做一個公布"},{"start":6523.917,"end":6539.458,"text":"委員其實我們都有在處理不過因為您的槌尋我們會去向內政部再去跟他協調好那我希望你們未來不動產信託的機制要強化譬如說加強土建農的搭配的信託可能目前價金信託對消費者比較保障"},{"start":6539.938,"end":6541.238,"text":"請你定期介入本國銀行建築融資餘放的金額跟比例,可以嗎?"},{"start":6565.565,"end":6567.646,"text":"請信託工會加強對會員辦理預售屋履約﹑擔保信託的教育"},{"start":6592.279,"end":6592.759,"text":"接下來有請費鴻泰 費昭偉質詢"},{"start":6622.813,"end":6645.985,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位女士先生大家早安主席幫我請一下黃主委好 有請黃主委是 趙委長主委好這個防疫險現在是不是全部都理賠完畢了大部分都完成了大概都解決了都解決了這次理賠大概總共賠了多少的金額大概2700億左右2700億這個跟幾年前我的評估差不多"},{"start":6652.545,"end":6674.105,"text":"這個防疫險到現在差不多告一段落了當然大股東口袋裡拿錢或者跟銀行去融資大概都到位了但是當然也有幾個事情日後我們可以拿來做檢討第一個 有一家產險公司叫新安東"},{"start":6675.401,"end":6682.624,"text":"現在是股權比較高的是東京海上集團現在換成日本人的這個是對台灣的一個損失"},{"start":6704.878,"end":6727.273,"text":"第二,我們這些保險從業人員的薪資這三年下來有沒有減少?直接告訴你,他們工會有跟我講,是減少了很多。因為大股東增資或跟銀行借款都要付利息,所以他們所有的獲利,而且與轉增資的關係,"},{"start":6735.405,"end":6763.333,"text":"讓他們的保險從業人員台灣有多少人加業務員好像三四十萬人因為業務員很多我所了解他們你去問問他們看看問問工會就知道了他們的所得減少很多不是說沒有還有一個請教一下這些防疫險"},{"start":6765.1,"end":6767.562,"text":"財保公司見解上跟保險公司不一致"},{"start":6787.9,"end":6810.878,"text":"主要是對於他們的核保或者理賠的標準有一些討論在保公司說在保公司說這個防險的保單是理賠是什麼狀況呢確診住院理賠對不對那我們台灣是怎麼做的呢"},{"start":6813.134,"end":6830.802,"text":"我們後來因為人數很多,所以變成快篩來決定,然後就數位的方式出列。沒錯,就跳過了住院的這個階段。這就是台灣保險公司跟在保的爭執的地方,不是小事喔。"},{"start":6832.321,"end":6843.441,"text":"如果我在問下面一個問題如果債保公司不理賠那這些財險公司他要怎麼處理我們請局長跟您報告"},{"start":6845.523,"end":6868.574,"text":"報告委員,那個防疫險的保單確診不是要住院才要理賠,確診就幾戶,它只是有一部分是住院的部分的幾戶,後來因為那個衛護部的條件,我剛在講在寶跟台灣的產業公司,他們的看法不一樣,是不是我剛在講的那個東西?"},{"start":6870.049,"end":6871.111,"text":"臺灣後來做的理賠跟簽約的保單一樣還是不一樣呢?"},{"start":6886.138,"end":6913.59,"text":"他們現在有一些討論裡面大概就是針對他的核保條件是不是放得太寬或者是那個住院的那個己父的部分後來因為有居家照護的部分當時的保單上面沒有寫很清楚嗎保單寫確診就是理賠所以這個部分應該不是爭議的主要的原因那主要的原因只有那個住院己父的那一塊局長你慢慢說其實我"},{"start":6916.104,"end":6945.083,"text":"工會很多人都跟我講得很清楚了齁我講的工會是工人的工齁到底 到底出了什麼問題為什麼在以前在保會跟我們保險公司會這樣子爭執有那麼長的時間嗎呃 有一些還是有這樣的情形啦很少啦保險局 你們 你們需要講實話喔我要聽你的實話喔問題到底出在哪裡嘛"},{"start":6950.496,"end":6950.656,"text":"主委"},{"start":6976.141,"end":6977.022,"text":"韓國是過渡10年嗎?我上網去看說美國是"},{"start":7004.266,"end":7004.286,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":7025.373,"end":7030.458,"text":"主要是臺灣的保險我們高理賠的保單太多了在世界上佔了很多所以說我們的國情跟別的國家國情不太一樣"},{"start":7047.336,"end":7060.412,"text":"我們當然希望能夠快速跟國際接軌這樣子我們的資本市場人家接觸度會比較高我們都準備好了嗎"},{"start":7061.212,"end":7068.374,"text":"我們在按部就班的準備,我們有信心還有一年的時間嘛,對不對?2026還有兩年的時間我們是2026...1月1號1月1號實施嘛,還有一年嘛今年2023對不起,2024、2025還有兩年時間兩年時間當然可以啦,所以我今天訂的這個題目"},{"start":7081.69,"end":7108.566,"text":"就是從你們輔導也要從輔導的角度還有他們能力的角度我是覺得要上路啊一定要考量一下他們的實際的狀況我剛才講的防疫險那個防疫險其實這個過程裡面我沒有在怪你們因為行政院做了很多的規定行政院聽了衛福部很多的話"},{"start":7110.128,"end":7110.148,"text":"國際財保"},{"start":7125.882,"end":7126.042,"text":"網路保險號"},{"start":7154.995,"end":7179.714,"text":"會不會上線啊?我們在研究中可能到明年初才會對外宣布。換句話說今年不會?今年不會。日後樂不樂觀?我們一方面開放保險公司異業的結盟的工作,所以現在保險公司可能利用異業結盟去發展那種存網保類似的業務。它有沒有有點像存網營?像不像?"},{"start":7181.345,"end":7181.465,"text":"主席"},{"start":7194.676,"end":7195.336,"text":"美國對虛擬貨幣的ETF可能會開放"},{"start":7224.615,"end":7250.662,"text":"臺灣有沒有這樣子的因應的對策委員其實國際的趨勢我們都在掌握那當然我不敢說現在會開放但是未來要看我們走的方向那是要等到法規就寫嗎或是看到國際監理上到位之後我們覺得我們就可以做處理我們要去看看國際上的進度再把我們臺灣的法規要把它落實"},{"start":7253.143,"end":7277.248,"text":"當然比較保守穩健也可以最後我想請教一個問題臺灣在全世界一千大的銀行裡面排名前一百名的有沒有一百名好像沒有臺灣銀行應該是最大的但是好像也不到一百名答案是沒有我們要查一下我們抱歉我們金融產業佔GDP"},{"start":7280.906,"end":7289.129,"text":"香港和新加坡的金融業佔GDP大概多少?高到什麼程度?香港25% 新加坡33%"},{"start":7302.406,"end":7303.146,"text":"黃主任委員"},{"start":7319.756,"end":7320.156,"text":"感謝委員指導"},{"start":7345.677,"end":7346.818,"text":"好 謝謝費昭偉 謝謝黃主委接下來有請有換人嗎?有沒有換?高嘉瑜委員"},{"start":7368.433,"end":7388.32,"text":"接下來高嘉瑜委員．高嘉瑜．高嘉苑議員不在．我們請沈發慧委員沈發慧改書面．沈發慧委員改書面．接著請曾民仲委員好 謝謝召委．請主委總召長"},{"start":7396.689,"end":7420.707,"text":"主委早幾個事情跟你討教第一個我看您今天的書面報告我有仔細看這是115年我國保險公司要接軌IFRS 17．跟ICS這是既定的政策已經確定了是不是是好那整體看保險公司要增加多少資本"},{"start":7423.347,"end":7424.708,"text":"局長跟主委答得非常好"},{"start":7452.335,"end":7478.132,"text":"既然這個是既定政策那到時候我相信你已經評估過不管你過渡多少年那我的問題是在最低要增加多少資本那中等的情況要增加多少資本最高要增加多少資本你總要有這樣預估不然你不可能做決策"},{"start":7480.25,"end":7502.896,"text":"那好吧你說過渡多久我尊重但是你總要有預估阿最少這兩個重要政策接軌之後最低整個保險要增加多少資本那在中等的情況或者最高的情況要增加多少資本額這會有阿你做結界不可能沒有阿"},{"start":7505.302,"end":7508.303,"text":"對阿 我也知道阿 有些人有利 有些人不利阿"},{"start":7533.332,"end":7561.526,"text":"那做這個綜合考量之後你總有一個最低保險業要增加多少資本那在中等的情況保險業要增加多少資本那最嚴格的情況底下保險業要增加多少成本你不能跟我講說欸不知道或者是還沒有算清楚假設不知道或者沒有算清楚"},{"start":7562.642,"end":7570.749,"text":"我對這樣的計定政策主委不好意思我只是保留態度因為你沒有做好的相關的政策評估嘛"},{"start":7572.315,"end":7573.535,"text":"主委沒有錯,主委你給我答案啦你都給"},{"start":7593.61,"end":7616.089,"text":"這些保險公司精算過了嘛他自己算的啦對他精算過了當然他自己算了正不正確另外一件事情嘛那既然他已經算出來嘛那算出來那整個保險業會多少這個我因為第一個個別公司我想我也不知道我講全部受選公司幾家總共 主委受選公司總共幾家"},{"start":7623.097,"end":7623.738,"text":"有個答案有沒有"},{"start":7640.369,"end":7665.922,"text":"其實以前我就講一個數字好了以前很多委員說你們要上兆的增資那個都不可能的啦那多少?大約?我說大概加起來幾百億?這個真的很難算,我想...呃...主委,真的不好意思啊沒關係您指正尤其是受險公司他做每一件事情都要精算那假設連這個都沒有精算"},{"start":7667.611,"end":7669.232,"text":"目前來講應該都循序漸進吧那個請局長說明一下"},{"start":7698.61,"end":7723.471,"text":"我們現在還是讓他自己在15年內提計畫他要依照目標來達成那如果在這個15年內他的那個計算ICS還是不符合規定的話還是依照保險法我們會依照保險法規定來做處置好因為15年後我相信大家幾乎都不在這裡"},{"start":7725.769,"end":7731.235,"text":"15年後就像訂這個2050淨零排放當時也在這裡審議算審這個法案他2050淨零排放要他訂初期中期的"},{"start":7740.697,"end":7744.819,"text":"政府打擊詐騙,尤其是投資詐騙,越打越多那為什麼房子詐騙的帳戶數為什麼民營銀行的績效比較好,公股銀行比較差"},{"start":7767.219,"end":7779.145,"text":"我想第一個民營銀行的開戶數也多當然另外一方面他們可能在科技防詐上面也做得比較多所以我要糾正你一次這些公股行戶的帳戶數比較多對不會是民間銀行因為你像三張銀合戶它帳戶數都非常的高是一定"},{"start":7794.401,"end":7817.541,"text":"統計就是依照統計他們的絕對賬戶數比明天銀行多很多那既然多很多的情況底下公股你更有企業責任更股企業責任你防止這個詐騙為什麼公股的防止詐騙的績效太差主委要不要請他加強一下"},{"start":7820.13,"end":7844.035,"text":"統計數字上面也不完全有的公股銀行表現也超越民營銀行絕大部分都是民營銀行在前面為什麼不認真不認真我想公股本身應該都是很嚴謹的也不是說不認真那為什麼績效差呢沒關係過兩天就審預算"},{"start":7846.152,"end":7846.952,"text":"為什麼?哪些排除?那個股東的...你要講一下"},{"start":7872.995,"end":7876.538,"text":"最近金管會對名額監控或銀行大老闆不但干預那已經有事假做處分停止對不對"},{"start":7901.975,"end":7917.07,"text":"有的沒有停止對好這個我非常支持那這一部分假設財政部不但干預金控跟這個銀行決策金管會要不要查要不要處罰"},{"start":7917.931,"end":7946.559,"text":"報告 報告總召這個因為財政部是大股東那他也知道我們大股東對一些公股銀行的政策是會資基於股東的立場去做要求的這部分我們就是另案去處理跟一般民營是所以你回答了問題嘛你說大股東不當干預民間的這些法規不是用財政部喔這部分是有排除剛才局長有跟您報告就是跟財政部是你排除在哪裡"},{"start":7949.102,"end":7950.884,"text":"這個哪有排除財政部就不用遵守公司治理"},{"start":7957.779,"end":7986.852,"text":"主委 你的公職你只是在民股銀行啊沒有 他也有 但是有些部分如果是財政部基於國家的政策他需要對公股銀行做一些政策的指導那這部分是沒有在這裡面的所以你的金管會很多的金融監理法規是用財政部喔沒有很多 就是類似這種股權的可以這樣子嗎當然盡量不要 但是因為這是國內金融業的生態啦就是我們的金管會管不了財政部大股東啊"},{"start":7988.352,"end":8015.188,"text":"財政部也算是政府的部會之一嘛那他對公股的管理有他的職責了好我就有兩個事情你給我查清楚給我報告第一個財政部最近要求公股銀行拍攝詐騙廣告這個是財政部手虧伸進去嗎這個你第一個給我查必要時候派"},{"start":8016.195,"end":8025.718,"text":"財政部隊要求公股銀行進行政策性的護盤。財政部隊要求公股銀行進行政策性的護盤。財政部隊要求公股銀行進行政策性的護盤。"},{"start":8045.08,"end":8046.14,"text":"謝謝各位請回 接著請張綺樂委員黃主委"},{"start":8077.798,"end":8092.569,"text":"主委好 主委 那個今天我想專報主要是談的IFRS跟ICS的這個問題當然這個國際的這個接軌當然是至關重要而且尤其我們之前也歷經了這個產售險的他這個在疫情中的這個"},{"start":8093.69,"end":8118.09,"text":"這些問題那現在當然有新的這個會計準則的這個制度那當然今天我也看了就是說我們這個在準備面這個準備面的話其實不管是說我們未來要成立這個專案平台啦或者是逐年的要求業者進行評估啦或者是這個預留準備金、盈餘供給來因應這些事實上是這樣講"},{"start":8118.971,"end":8135.166,"text":"就是說這個當然有我們政府要協助的這個部分那其實我們真的比較關切的是說到底業者在真正在這個過程中的這個接軌甚至在我們在盤點他們有時候可能他要是真的做不到"},{"start":8135.706,"end":8161.475,"text":"或者是有問題的時候這中間就是這個有點我們公共政策講說在執行中的這個評估啦這樣子的一個觀念所以就是說這個部分到底就是說因為我們還是監管嘛其實監管會重不重啊是監管他們到底到不到位所以這個監管的這個強度力度甚至包括就是說如果真的做不到其實剛才我想曾總長也在那裡講嘛就是說這個倒是要是"},{"start":8162.415,"end":8170.286,"text":"沒有辦法到位的話我們到底有沒有什麼比較好的方法來監督這些業者如果他真的實在做不到怎麼辦"},{"start":8172.234,"end":8198.421,"text":"這個接軌是我們為了符合國際的資本或是會計的規定所做的決定那做這個決定一定都有自己國情的考慮所以有在地化措施跟過渡化措施我屢次在外報告說接軌不是讓大家過不了關而是在合理的範圍之內也努力了我們也符合國際的標準所以我們會提供合理的配套措施、過渡措施讓業者能夠漸進式的接軌"},{"start":8200.094,"end":8201.755,"text":"有跟委員報告這些都是跟工會跟不同類型的業者充分溝通之後他們覺得對他們來講他們是覺得可以做得到"},{"start":8227.148,"end":8253.246,"text":"我們才這樣子去做配套的安排好 謝謝主委好 那主委那當然今天我另外還有一個題目就是是跟比較教育有點關係因為我現在在教文委員會了這個當然這個無卡詐騙簽約拿佣金等等這些就是說我們這個校園的詐騙其實現在也越來越嚴重甚至有時候說實話就是讓學生"},{"start":8254.227,"end":8279.894,"text":"甚至自己也變受害者但是他們有時也變加害者反正就是說這個地方問題很多那我要問的問題是這樣這個財經素養雖然教育部一直在推財經素養財經素養其實說實話啦我必須直說教育部其實自己就不見得有財經素養因為我們官員對這些方向的瞭解是他們是管全部嘛所以他這個地方他其實專業是真的不足"},{"start":8280.874,"end":8297.483,"text":"所以你看我們這種調查都會發現就是逐年反而是在下降沒有像我們想像的那麼好現在我們現在這個金融理財這是很重要一件事而且國人都很在乎可是反而我們在教育端這邊反而是越來越差我直接往下看"},{"start":8298.183,"end":8325.638,"text":"那而且現在又因為主委也很清楚現在金融的這個商品又越來越多樣態也不一樣現在你看比如隨便舉個例子這個先買後付等等這些這些等等越來越多就是說其實有時候我只是說啦就是教育端那邊是跟不太上的甚至往下看喔直接往下其實這個很多這種這個調查啊或者他其實也都講得很清楚我們現在教的沒有管道不見得很好"},{"start":8327.078,"end":8334.258,"text":"內容不符實用交流方式清淨點水就是說這個當然是我就是這個最後這個問題說主委齁當然"},{"start":8335.273,"end":8358.265,"text":"金管這邊是最專業你覺得怎麼樣讓這個尤其是對於學校端的教育我們怎麼樣協力他們幫他們一把應該是這樣講因為專業在我們這邊可是他們雖然口口聲聲要求說我教育要把這個金融素養提高在教育端可是抱歉就是提不太動直接就最後一頁"},{"start":8359.938,"end":8381.013,"text":"是不是您也覺得說是不是要更把它導入得更清楚一點點深度、廣度你看像我們這邊舉個例像日本所有的高校他是把這個金融教育義務化認為說這至關重要我直白說有時候對人生而言這是他一輩子都用得到的很棒的事那這個地方諸位怎麼看呢?謝謝"},{"start":8381.913,"end":8397.943,"text":"我一直在過去這十幾年來都說金融教育是人生實現臺灣夢的road map是地圖所以這就是一個基本的素養有了這個金融教育才能對我們的人生不同的階段去做好的規劃所以我們一直在強調希望"},{"start":8398.843,"end":8398.863,"text":"委員長"},{"start":8417.296,"end":8431.494,"text":"所以有一個叫做同溫層效應Echo Chamber就是回應式你吸收的資訊都是同一類人的想法所以你外面的人給他的知識他不見得會改變他的行為跟決策所以才會有行為財務學行為經濟學的這個學門的產生那這個我們要努力"},{"start":8436.312,"end":8460.454,"text":"對,有時候甚至有這種同溫層有時候它的效應不見得是好的,因為有時候反而是一些錯誤的事情,對,一種錯誤的甚至,或者一窩蜂的,之前很多是被割韭菜的,玩什麼當沖或等等這些其實都很多問題啊,所以有時候我覺得說要更正確一點的,甚至更紮實一點的,甚至這種風險的評估要讓他們更清楚的,我覺得這個"},{"start":8461.195,"end":8461.595,"text":"接著請林楚瑩委員"},{"start":8498.934,"end":8502.003,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請黃天夢黃主委好 四位"},{"start":8505.362,"end":8528.987,"text":"是委員長主委好剛剛本席非常開心的是聽到了其實這個朝鷹委員都對於公司治理非常的關注但是我相信呢這個所謂供股行庫跟民營行庫之間的公司治理的目標應該是不太一樣的比如說這個所謂民營的當然就是為了求獲利求績效但是供股行庫之所以存在當然就是要配合政府的政策我先來念一個2021年7月份"},{"start":8532.108,"end":8548.435,"text":"的財政部的新聞稿．他說財政部．因為對於面臨部分的立委．提出公股行庫沒有盡力來服務．這個青年業．就是年輕的業者做一些紓困．所以說立法院就要求了．這個公股行庫必須依照這個正新．"},{"start":8549.455,"end":8568.722,"text":"方案紓困條例必須要好好的來執行有關於企業紓困的部分那麼包括了這個公股行戶如何來公平對待積極來辦理紓困來支持企業跟民眾資金的需求那我的言下之意就是說公股行戶面對立法院立委的要求之後"},{"start":8569.602,"end":8586.301,"text":"去要求財政部然後財政部去要求了公股、行庫來做企業紓困就是要求他們要做的比其他的民營行庫來的好那如果金管會現在介入調查請問是查大股東、財政部還是要求財政部的立法委員"},{"start":8588.018,"end":8615.516,"text":"因為剛剛您沒有辦法回答在野黨委員的質疑嘛那我現在是想到就是說不會到時候查到後來變成是立法委員被金管會給查了吧那這個其實就是棒打老虎雞吃蟲嘛公股行貨的存在不就是為了配合政府的政策嗎那很多政策又是政府要求的包括剛剛講到的打架我記得我在這個質詢台或是我坐在底下或是您現在在備詢台有關於打架"},{"start":8617.978,"end":8618.598,"text":"我是認為﹖"},{"start":8640.933,"end":8655.095,"text":"剛剛您沒有好好的去回答公股行戶的責任跟他所代表的他背後可能要來執行一些所謂的政策目標跟民營行戶追求利潤追求獲利這不一樣"},{"start":8656.056,"end":8670.961,"text":"所以大股東的職責顯然也不一樣喔主委您好像沒有回答到這個問題是我想財政部當然作為大股東他有他的公共利益在啦當然對於公股銀行他要執行這個所謂公共的政策有這個公共利益在這個地方對"},{"start":8672.181,"end":8690.867,"text":"對,所以本席提醒你在寫報告的時候還有包括不論是金管會在做金融監理的部分的時候這個部分我希望你們要釐清清楚不然報告交上來到最後會變成是一種各說各話的方式是好,接下來本席"},{"start":8691.747,"end":8711.406,"text":"要來關注的這個問題是我想這兩天大家也都在講說選舉剩下不到40天了那麼到底有哪些所謂外界外部勢力借選的部分那麼中國借選是不是出了新招而且這個新招呢不只是過去我們看到的可能影響的是旅遊啦"},{"start":8712.287,"end":8732.379,"text":"甚至於現在連虛擬貨幣都成為介入的漏洞主委我想跟您請問一下我們都知道現在虛擬的平台目前它會有一個所謂的指導的原則就是我講的它這個內部控制以及這個機構的被查金管會目前跟金融機構之間到底如果出現了大量的虛擬貨幣進入帳戶當中會有所謂的通報機制嗎?"},{"start":8737.165,"end":8738.727,"text":"我們知道其實如果跟洗錢防治法來講的話就是只要"},{"start":8756.127,"end":8785.286,"text":"在銀行端我們有所謂的法定貨幣就包括這些貨幣有大額的進出的時候會通報但是現在如果虛擬貨幣在平台當中有異常的大筆的交易出現的時候因為它沒有變現成法定貨幣顯然它就變成了是一個通報上面的漏洞媒體的報導的質疑是有可能存在但卻無法監理是這樣嗎"},{"start":8786.307,"end":8797.164,"text":"不過他們要成為我們的這個都要去簽這個防止洗錢的聲明書在交易過程中都要做好防止洗錢的工作"},{"start":8797.884,"end":8820.297,"text":"所以他們現在是屬於一種自律的狀態但是包括金管會的檢察局或相關單位其實是無法直接的去了解到又或者是說必須要有檢調單位已經有了解他已經變成是一個被查或是調查中的案件才會被曝光嗎主委"},{"start":8820.777,"end":8849.229,"text":"報告委員防治洗錢法是責成金管會作為虛擬資產由投資這部分的主管機關是所以他們如果違法就違反洗錢防治法局長你可以補充沒有關係對報告委員其實剛剛委員關心的就是不管是大通報或者是可疑交易的通報目前就是VSP也就是虛擬資產的這個平台他都要適用是"},{"start":8850.202,"end":8872.12,"text":"那麼所以說以目前現階段來講他雖然適用但是如果他只是在交應該是說交易的一個過程當中那他並沒有他只是從A匯到BB匯到C他只是在這樣的流轉但是都在交易平台當中的時候我們會發現他的大額的交易的產生嗎?"},{"start":8874.403,"end":8892.105,"text":"報告委員因為大額的部分的話基本上是現金所以其實現在我們的了解實務上的了解是還是會有一些平台他會有收現金現金的法幣那如果他有這樣子的行為的時候他還是要做大額通報"},{"start":8893.166,"end":8906.038,"text":"然後另外一個就是可疑交易的移轉因為可疑交易其實是沒有金額門檻的所以如果一旦是發現可疑交易就像剛剛委員說的從A的錢包到B的錢包不管怎麼樣只要覺得符合可疑的樣態照理說VSP都應該要做申報"},{"start":8914.905,"end":8941.543,"text":"因為現在就是說我們在洗錢防治法當中有一個金額的限制就是台幣50萬它就必須要申報或是作為一個就是要被呈現出來但是虛擬貨幣當中因為它並沒有現在這樣的一個數額所以也可能是平台自己來做規定包括像我們現在就沒有規定說剛剛我們提到的所謂什麼樣算大額"},{"start":8944.625,"end":8960.801,"text":"本同於臺幣多少嗎或是什麼可能連這些規定跟規範都相對的模糊那會變成是只是平台業者我用自律的方式來處理那麼這就會變成是好像我們認為有在管理"},{"start":8961.161,"end":8985.695,"text":"但是其實它依舊是有漏洞那麼我建議金管會在這個部分當然選舉只剩下不到40天了在這樣的過程當中也有媒體提出了這樣的質疑而且我們也認為其實在經過了解之後它確實是有可能成為借選的管道甚至於它有可能是會選的一個管道的時候是不是建議金管會要跟相關的單位把這樣的"},{"start":8986.857,"end":8990.381,"text":"我們今日登記發言的委員經以詢問現在處理臨時提案一案請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":9012.18,"end":9029.221,"text":"臨時提案第一案,臺灣《洗錢防治法》於2021年正式將虛擬通貨平台以及交易業務事業納入洗錢防治範疇,然而觀察現行虛擬通貨平台及交易業務事業防治洗錢及打擊資控辦法,"},{"start":9030.582,"end":9050.82,"text":"僅於第11條針對法定貨幣之現金交易金額．要求各交易平台向法務部調查局申報．準此．對交互間以虛擬貨幣形式流通之情形．缺乏法規訂定申報標準．談論由各交易平台自律訂定規範．恐造成洗錢防治之缺漏．"},{"start":9051.4,"end":9065.41,"text":"原要求金融監督管理委員會嚴議．就虛擬貨幣間之交易形式．訂定洗錢防治及大額通報標準．並於2個月內提交書面報告提案人林楚英 郭國文 張嘉斌 宣讀完畢好 這個金管會遵照辦理"},{"start":9080.546,"end":9083.493,"text":"通過本次會議做如下的決定"},{"start":9084.554,"end":9107.653,"text":"一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請金管會於一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定委員審發會羅明才、高嘉瑜所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請金管會以書面答覆之"},{"start":9112.842,"end":9127.54,"text":"本日會議議程已進行完畢．堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢．一併列入記錄刊登公報．並請議事人員協助處理好謝謝各位散會跟委員會報告我們首領中有那個所得稅法第17條的協商謝謝"}]}},{"id":"148898","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148898","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da397cba5547cbfc7c6305e7dde2be0ed71c986728e607a0322ab647807d61d1a7c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳靜敏","委員發言時間":"09:13:05 - 09:15:20","影片長度":"00:02:15","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員劉建國等18人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n三、繼續審查委員吳玉琴等16人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n四、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n五、繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等23人擬具「國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n六、繼續審查委員林為洲等17人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n七、繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等17人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n八、繼續審查委員張育美等17人擬具「國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n九、繼續審查委員邱泰源等19人擬具「國民營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十、繼續審查委員陳靜敏等18人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十一、繼續審查委員林淑芬等19人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十二、審查委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十三、審查委員莊競程等21人擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十四、審查時代力量黨團擬具「營養及健康飲食促進法草案」案。\n十五、審查請願文書69案。\n【第十四案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【本次會議逐條討論】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-10-8-26-13"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":135,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:15:20+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:13:05+08:00","features":[],"type":"Clip"},{"id":"148871","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148871","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da3ef6a61ca5677c3836208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a03223fb8e3d700d2a5af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:11:43 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09:13:41","影片長度":"00:01:58","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":118,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:13:41+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:11:43+08:00","features":[],"type":"Clip"},{"id":"148870","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148870","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8471941f44750da33f3ea76bb5ef544c6208b54a1fc119c9c986728e607a0322e5f61c5647d20dc05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:09:37 - 09:11:38","影片長度":"00:02:01","會議時間":"2023-12-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「我國2024巴黎奧運會在性別平等、運動科學、運動員心理健康之整備情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(三)委員蘇巧慧等20人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十二條之一條文草案」案。(四)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(五)委員江永昌等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案。(六)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一及第二十四條之二條文草案」案。(七)委員廖國棟等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(八)委員張廖萬堅等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(九)委員林宜瑾等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十)委員吳思瑤等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十一)委員陳秀寳等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十二)委員蘇治芬等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十三)委員沈發惠等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十四)委員黃國書等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十五)委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十六)時代力量黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十七)委員劉櫂豪等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。(十八)委員余天等17人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之一條文草案」案。【第(十七)案及第(十八)案如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查；進行詢答及逐條審查。】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-10-8-22-11"},"date":"2023-12-06","duration":121,"end_time":"2023-12-06T09:11:38+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-06T09:09:37+08:00","features":[],"type":"Clip"}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}