{"total":{"value":25,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-03-22"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"150302","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150302","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e38508adaa71edeccfd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a689b075e14f44f8d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"11:01:51 - 11:17:25","影片長度":"00:15:34","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":934,"end_time":"2024-03-22T11:17:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T11:01:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1077,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（11時2分）好，謝謝主席，請陳建仁陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：涂委員早安。"],["涂委員權吉：好，院長，請問一下，大園航空城的徵收案，院長應該知道吧？"],["陳院長建仁：我知道。"],["涂委員權吉：因為它是我們中華民國有史以來區段徵收最大的開發案，徵收面積突破到3,148公頃，當初針對這些搬遷市民的徵收有兩種補償方式，院長知道是哪兩種補償方式嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我請部長說明。"],["涂委員權吉：好，沒關係，部長回答也可以。"],["王部長國材：安置住宅跟安置街廓。"],["涂委員權吉：主要是分兩種，一種是現金補償，還有一種是抵價地；一個是用錢、用現金，另外一個就是用現金等值的抵價地，兩種方式讓被徵收的民眾選擇。這些徵收戶都是配合國家重大建設跟政策，所以他們是不是都應該享有同樣的待遇？"],["陳院長建仁：對，應該，基本上。"],["涂委員權吉：現在他們面臨一個問題，就是這些徵收戶如果是選擇現金補償，在現金補償以後，他的老農津貼跟國民年金沒有被排富所影響。另外大概有百分之九十幾的被徵收戶，他們認為地被徵收掉，希望能同樣拿回土地，而政府也希望不用發出那麼多錢，所以用地去抵他們的地，但他們選擇抵價地，然後在收到權狀、收到安置街廓的權狀之後，房子都還沒蓋，收到權狀之後，就被排富條款排除在老農津貼跟國民年金之外，我覺得這部分應該享有同樣待遇，是不是院長這邊可以幫他們解決一下？"],["陳院長建仁：這件事情，行政院是由鄭副院長召集相關會議，針對這種看起來比較不一致的情況，會來做相關的討論，當然在老農津貼部分，還有國民年金的排富情形，是不是能夠再做進一步考慮，我想鄭副院長的會議當中一定會按照相關單位的建議來做。"],["涂委員權吉：我希望院長幫忙一下，因為那時候我們有提出，也希望鄭副院長在召開航空城專案會議的時候，像3月11日我們希望討論這部分，可是後來我們發現並沒有討論，所以希望院長能夠交辦一下，針對稅捐機關、農業部及衛福部的部分，希望跨部會來解決這個問題，因為當初民航局也有跟衛福部、農業部說這個抵價地應該也符合損害賠償性質，所得稅法規定他們拿現金是符合損害賠償性質，所以沒有在排富之內，可是不知道為什麼反而拿同等值的地居然被排除在外，所以民航局也認為拿這個抵價地應該也符合損害賠償性質，希望院長幫這些徵收戶爭取他們合法的權益，畢竟這些徵收戶都是配合國家重大政策，我們也不希望往後區段徵收有這些問題而影響到民眾對於徵收表達強烈的不滿，也怕他們抵制徵收。"],["陳院長建仁：好，這個部分我剛才已經說過，我會請鄭副院長召集相關的部會討論。"],["涂委員權吉：請院長多幫忙。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["涂委員權吉：接下來我們看一下道路改善的影片，我們先播放，請大家看一下。","（播放影片）"],["涂委員權吉：影片的播放有加快速度，這是前幾天我們針對這個路段拍攝的影片，在這段路上隨便走一段路，部長應該知道這段路是在哪裡吧？"],["王部長國材：知道。"],["涂委員權吉：那是在哪裡？"],["王部長國材：就是在觀音這一段。"],["涂委員權吉：對，部長對這也瞭解，我相信非常多的民眾陳情台61線桃園沿海從新屋到觀音這個路段坑坑洞洞，道路非常、非常地不平整，車子開過去以後，很多人都說避震器都會壞掉，而且這個問題也反映非常久，從小英總統上任，反映了8年，去年底鄭文燦副院長（之前也是我們的市長）也有承諾要去全面改善，不知道這部分的經費有編列嗎？何時可以幫我們全面重鋪？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分請部長來回答。"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，從111年開始修，今年有一筆經費4.5億，會澈底全面改善完畢。"],["涂委員權吉：什麼時候開始動工修？"],["王部長國材：從111年就開始修了。"],["涂委員權吉：可是路況還是很壞啊！"],["王部長國材：今年（113年）有4.5億會丟進去，總共77公里全部修完，今年……"],["涂委員權吉：預計什麼時候可以全面重鋪完成？"],["陳院長建仁：今年。"],["王部長國材：就是今年年底全部修完。"],["涂委員權吉：今年年底可以全部修復完成？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["涂委員權吉：所以現在已經陸續在修，今年年底我們就有一條完整的道路？"],["王部長國材：是，現在大概已經修了三十幾公里……"],["涂委員權吉：好，我順便向部長報告，台61是這個樣子，台66我相信你也接到很多反映，台61和台66是我們聯外非常重要的道路，這真的讓人家笑了很多年，希望交通部能夠雪恥，把這個道路全面重鋪完成。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["涂委員權吉：還有台66在觀音段現在還是平交路口，常常發生許多意外，而且造成很多交通的瓶頸，請問全面高架什麼時候可以啟動？"],["王部長國材：現在有一段在施工了，目前有五個平面路口，靠海在觀音這一部分現在在設計，4月會發包，另外再過來6K這一部分現在已經在施工中了，116年全部都會完成。"],["涂委員權吉：預計116年台66全面高架完成？"],["王部長國材：對，116年。"],["涂權吉委員：所以現在已經開始在施作，你說4月發包是嗎？"],["王部長國材：分兩標，有一標在施工，另外一標4月要發包。"],["涂權吉委員：所以預計116年全部可以高架完成？"],["王部長國材：對，都會完工。"],["涂權吉委員：好，這一部分還請部長多叮嚀。","另外，針對桃園市大園國2甲台15線延伸到台61線的興建工程，因為它現在也是我們航空城主要的聯外道路，不知道現在這個進度到哪裡？"],["王部長國材：我們第一階段就是到台15，現在要延到西濱，目前已經積極地進行中，我不確定時間，就是現在已經在進行。"],["涂委員權吉：好，部長，沒關係，我的重點在後面。因為國道2甲延伸到台61之後，最主要我們希望把下方的道路一併納入工程裡面，不要到時候二次施工，造成民眾二次傷害，而且到時候再施工，絕對會把工程期再延長。"],["陳院長建仁：這有需要跟地方政府討論一下，因為這跟地方政府有關係。"],["涂委員權吉：我有跟地方政府先溝通過，他們希望交通部納入，經費的部分、各方面他們希望可以全數配合，但是最主要是希望交通部能夠把國道2甲台15線延伸到台61線納入規劃及施作，地方政府的部分，經費、各方面他們希望跟交通部全面配合。"],["王部長國材：這個需要討論一下，因為一般高架段是我們負責，平面段、包括徵收、還有一些……"],["陳院長建仁：對，平面段是地方政府。"],["涂委員權吉：因為對於下方道路，交通部有負責舖平的責任。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["涂委員權吉：我希望直接先納入，不要做好以後，到時候再來什麼可行性評估、再徵收土地來做，是不是應該先納入，直接把工程在做高架橋梁的時候一次一併做好？"],["陳院長建仁：委員，就我的瞭解，當時的可行性評估好像只送高架路的部分，並沒有平面的可行性評估，如果現在平面要納進來，讓交通部跟地方政府一起來討論看看，好不好？"],["涂委員權吉：好，因為今天講的最主要目的……"],["陳院長建仁：當初做的是做高架路的評估。"],["涂委員權吉：民眾一直反映，希望能夠一併來施作，因為下面這個道路是一定要做的，為什麼不在做的時候一併來做，到時候又省時，民眾也不用等到高架做好，又再來做道路，把工程期拉得很長。"],["陳院長建仁：這是地方政府當初應該做的。"],["涂委員權吉：好，請部長再跟我們多幫忙，希望一併納入規劃及施作裡面。還有，現在五楊高架延伸，剛剛陳超明委員也有講，國道1號楊頭路的拓寬，就是楊梅到頭份，我們已經確定會去做了，現在針對楊梅的部分，是不是能夠把楊梅的增設匝道一併納入楊頭段的拓寬工程裡面，讓這個北出南入的匝道一併納入一起施作？"],["王部長國材：我們現在也在請高公局研究，這部分有在研究。"],["涂委員權吉：我有去瞭解，你有請地方交通局去做可行性評估，其實經過我們討論過，他說這個可行性評估是絕對要做，所以很多民眾及地方政府也希望交通部能夠把這個一併納入，不要像五楊高架的中豐北交流道，民國99年高架完成，現在隔了15年才去做中豐北交流道，當初做的時候就希望做，結果那時候不納入，你看現在又在那邊施工，民眾說15年前就可以規劃、可以完成的東西，為什麼要隔了15年以後再來做？所以希望楊梅增設匝道也納入楊頭段的拓寬工程裡面。"],["王部長國材：地方政府先提出來，然後跟我們一起討論。"],["涂委員權吉：好，希望這個提出之後，交通部能夠為我們民眾的福祉多幫忙配合。"],["王部長國材：先看那個結果。"],["陳院長建仁：委員……"],["涂委員權吉：還有，也是楊頭段拓寬……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我打個岔，地方政府很重要，地方政府的規劃要提出來。"],["涂委員權吉：會、會、會，當然我希望交通部能夠納入，讓這個工程期能夠一次完成，避免二次施工造成時間的延宕。","還有也是針對楊頭段的拓寬工程，當初公路總局也有撥了一筆經費，把楊梅的生生路打通到秀才路，再連接到中山南路，就這部分公路局那時候好像有撥了二億多的經費。現在生生路打通到秀才路這個路段今年內就會通車，接下來就要連接到中山南路、也是縱貫路台1線，現在因為楊頭段拓寬工程，所以本來接著秀才路要能夠打通到校前路，但因為楊頭公路這個高架工程而暫時停擺，所以希望在北上方向也一樣，我們楊頭段的拓寬工程高架下方道路，是不是請交通部高公局也可以一併納入設計跟施作裡面？"],["王部長國材：這可能要看它整個高層怎麼接了，我想還是一樣，有一些分析，如果地方有這個想法，都可以討論。"],["涂委員權吉：好。"],["王部長國材：但是的確在工程面要去討論這部分。"],["陳院長建仁：對，要跟工程……"],["涂委員權吉：那我這邊提出，我也希望到時候我們要求我們地方政府交通局也來提出。"],["王部長國材：跟高公局討論一下。"],["涂委員權吉：最主要是交通部能夠來配合，我們希望真的把這個工程能夠一次來完成，不要做了以後，又再二次施工造成更多的問題。還有之前我們楊梅交流道有增設北上交流道的專用道，增設這個專用道之後，當然對於我們縱貫路，還有高速公路交流道當初交通壅塞改善的情形非常好，但是現在面臨一個問題就是機車族希望能夠增設一個機車專用道，避免他們在使用專用道的時候，跟下高速公路交流道很多的汽車相互擠壓、爭道路，造成他們很多的危險性，所以他們希望能夠在這個地方來增設我們的機車專用道。"],["王部長國材：是，這個部分因為它主要是要分流，我想這部分也一樣，就是交通局先提出來跟我們……"],["涂委員權吉：我希望這部分高公局能配合，因為這之前有提出，像我們南崁跟中壢新屋交流道都有做機車專用道，不知道為什麼到楊梅要爭取的時候，你們就百般提出很多的問題，說這也不行、那也不行，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院長我請問一下我們大圓航空城這個徵收案我們院長應該知道吧我知道因為他是我們中華民國有史以來區段徵收最大的開發案那徵收這個面積也突破到3148公頃那當初這些搬遷的市民他這個徵收有兩種補償方式那院長知道哪兩種補償方式嗎"},{"start":59.855,"end":66.161,"text":"主要分兩種,一種是現金的補償,還有一種是抵價地。一個是用錢用現金,另外一個就是也是用現金等值的抵價地。兩種方式給我們徵收戶的民眾去選擇。"},{"start":83.999,"end":98.084,"text":"那這些徵收戶他都是配合國家重大建設跟政策那所以我認為他們是不是應該都享有同樣的待遇對應該那現在他們面臨一個問題就是我們這些徵收戶他選擇現金補償的"},{"start":105.097,"end":125.883,"text":"他現金補償以後他的老農津貼跟國民年金沒有被排富所影響但是後來這些徵收戶因為有百分之九十幾因為他們認為這個地他被徵收掉他希望拿回這個地那我們政府也希望說不用發那麼多錢出去用地去抵這個地"},{"start":126.403,"end":152.254,"text":"所以後來他們就選擇這個底價地但是後來當他們收到權狀之後收到這安置接貨權狀之後居然馬上房子都還沒蓋收到權狀之後就被這個排付條款排除在老農津貼跟國民年金之外所以是不是這部分我希望是不是應該享有同樣的待遇是不是院長這邊是不是可以來幫我們解決一下"},{"start":152.774,"end":170.775,"text":"我想這件事情的話我們行政院是由政府院長來召集相關的會議然後會來就這樣子的看起來比較不一致的這個的情況會來做相關的討論那當然他的老容津貼的這個部分還有國民年金"},{"start":171.335,"end":173.598,"text":"我希望院長再幫忙一下,因為那時候我們有提出"},{"start":187.694,"end":208.773,"text":"也希望那個政府院長在召開航空城這個專案會議的時候像3月11號我們希望說有希望來討論這部分可是後來我們發現好像並沒有討論所以希望院長這邊能夠交辦一下針對我們涂權機關農業部跟衛福部的部分希望跨部會來解決這個問題"},{"start":210.762,"end":215.644,"text":"因為當初民航局也有跟衛福部跟農業部說其實應該這個底價低應該也是符合這個損害賠償性質因為這個所得稅法說他們因為這個"},{"start":225.253,"end":250.491,"text":"拿現金是符合損害賠償性質所以他沒有在排付之內可是不知道為什麼反而拿這個同等值的地居然被排除在外所以民航局也認為說應該這個拿這個底價地應該也符合這損壞賠償性質所以這一部分希望我們院長幫我們這些徵收戶爭取他們合法的權益畢竟這些徵收戶都是"},{"start":250.691,"end":263.234,"text":"﹗"},{"start":263.456,"end":281.552,"text":"好,這個部分我剛才已經說過,我會請我們政府院長來召集相關的部會來討論。請院長這部分多幫忙。接下來我們看一下下一段針對我們道路改善的影片,我們先播放請大家來看一下。"},{"start":286.976,"end":310.152,"text":"這個是有加快速度這是前幾天我們去針對這個路段拍攝的這個影片他這一段路就是隨便走一段路那知道請問院長不然應該知道這一段是在哪裡吧知道"},{"start":311.704,"end":331.051,"text":"那是在哪裡?就是在這個觀音這一段。那部長對這也了解,因為我相信非常多的民眾陳情,這台六一我們桃園這沿海路段,它似乎到觀音這個路段,那這個坑坑洞洞的道路非常非常的不平整,而且"},{"start":331.971,"end":332.792,"text":"這個部分我想我們請部長來回答"},{"start":358.608,"end":379.902,"text":"對,各位報告,從111開始修啦,今年會徹底,有筆經費4.5億,會全部把它改善完畢。什麼時候開始動工修?從111年就開始修了。可是還是很壞啊。對,但是今年,今年113有4.5億會丟進去,總共把那個77公里全部把它修完。那預計什麼時候可以全面重複完成?"},{"start":380.382,"end":399.024,"text":"就是那個今年年底,今年年底全部修完。今年年底可以全部修復完成。所以現在已經陸續在修,今年年底我們就有一條完整的道路。是,現在大概已經修了三十幾公里了。好,那我也順便跟部長報告臺六一也是這樣,臺六六我相信你也接到很多反應嗎?是是。"},{"start":399.304,"end":409.37,"text":"還有我們台六六我們在觀音段現在還是平交入口常常發生很多的意外而且造成很多交通的瓶頸那這個全面高架什麼時候可以啟動?"},{"start":426.021,"end":444.009,"text":"現在有一段在施工了,現在這五個路口平面路口,比較靠海在關於這一部分是現在設計,事業會發包,然後另外再過來6K這部分現在已經在施工中了。"},{"start":444.957,"end":446.298,"text":"所以目前現在已經開始在施作,你說4月發保是嗎?"},{"start":457.362,"end":484.332,"text":"那個有一段在分兩標,有一標在施工,一標事業要花包。所以預計116年全部可以高價完成。好,那這部分還請我們部長來多叮嚀。那還有我們針對我們桃園市大園,國二甲台15線延伸到台61線這個新建工程,因為它這現在也是我們航空城主要的連外道路。那不知道現在這個進度到哪裡?"},{"start":485.927,"end":498.301,"text":"我們第一階段就是到臺15現在要贏到西平現在已經在積極的進行中那個時間我這邊不確定時間沒關係部長因為我的重點在後面"},{"start":501.044,"end":520.111,"text":"因為這個國道二甲延伸到台六一它延伸之後最主要我們希望把這個下面下方這個道路是否可以一併納入這個工程裡面不要到時候二次施工造成民眾這個二次的傷害而且到時候再施工絕對會把這個工程期又再延長"},{"start":521.211,"end":550.067,"text":"這有需要跟地方政府討論一下啦,因為這個跟地方政府有關係。對,這個我有跟地方政府先溝通過。他們說希望交通部納入經費的部分各方面他們希望可以全數配合,但是最主要希望交通部能夠納入這個國道二甲台15線延伸到台61線,希望把它納入規劃跟施作裡面。那地方政府的部分他說經費各方面他們希望跟交通部來全面配合。"},{"start":551.557,"end":572.3,"text":"這個需要討論一下因為我們一般是這個高教段是我們負責平面段包括徵收還有一些因為下方道路我們交通部有負責鋪平的責任那我是希望直接先納入不要做好以後到時候再來什麼可行性評估再來徵收土地再來做"},{"start":579.666,"end":595.68,"text":"委員當時的可行性評估就我的了解好像只是說高架路的部分並沒有在平面的這個可行性評估那如果現在平面要納進來這個我讓交通部跟地方政府齁一起來討論看看好不好因為當初當初做的是做高架路的評估嘛"},{"start":599.744,"end":603.005,"text":"請部長再跟我們多幫忙,希望把這個一併納入這個我們規劃跟施作裡面。"},{"start":624.395,"end":651.392,"text":"那還有我們現在五陽高價延伸就是剛剛我們陳昌明委員也有講國道1號這陽頭路的拓寬就是陽梅道頭份那這個我們已經確定會去做了那現在針對陽梅的部分是不是能夠把這個陽梅的針射閘道一併納入我們的陽頭段的拓寬工程裡面"},{"start":651.877,"end":673.142,"text":"希望這個北出南入這個閘道能夠一併納入來一起試做。我們現在請高工局也在研究啦,會過去,但這部分有在研究。因為我有去了解啦,那你有請那個地方交通局去做這個可行性評估。那其實經過我們討論過,他說這個可行性評估是絕對要做。"},{"start":677.183,"end":704.264,"text":"所以很多民眾還有地方政府也希望交通部能夠把這個一併納入不要像我們舞陽高架那個中峰北交流道民國99年高架完成現在隔了15年現在才去做中峰北的交流道當初做的時候就希望做結果那時候不納入你看現在又在那邊施工民眾說15年前就可以規劃可以完成的東西為什麼隔了15年以後再來做"},{"start":704.764,"end":720.683,"text":"所以希望這個楊梅增設閘道也希望納入我們楊頭段的拓寬工程裡面。這個地方政府先提出來,然後跟我們一起討論這樣。好,那希望這個提出來,希望交通部能夠為我們民眾的福祉多幫忙配合。"},{"start":722.765,"end":725.126,"text":"還有也是這個羊頭段拓寬的...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我..."},{"start":746.613,"end":771.849,"text":"因為現在陽梅我們當初我們公路總局也有撥了一筆經費把我們陽梅深深路打通到秀才路然後再連接到我們的中山南路這一部分我們公路局那時候有撥了好像撥了兩億多的經費那像這個路段深深路打到秀才路這路段今年內就會通車接下來就要連接到我們的"},{"start":772.569,"end":773.17,"text":"﹚中山南路﹚"},{"start":787.899,"end":800.23,"text":"所以暫時停擺。所以是不是希望在北上方下一樣我們陽頭段這個拓寬工程高架下方道路我們是不是請交通部高工局也可以一併納入這個設計跟施作裡面。"},{"start":803.252,"end":831.759,"text":"這可能要看它的整個高層怎麼接啦我想還是一樣就是說有一些分析如果地方有這個想法我想說可以討論但是一切它工程面要去討論好那我這邊提出那我也希望到時候我們要求我們地方政府交通局也來提出然後最主要希望交通部能夠來配合我們希望真的把這個工程能夠一次來完成不要做了以後又再二次施工造成更多的問題"},{"start":832.839,"end":845.291,"text":"還有我們之前我們楊梅交流道有在那個增設北上的專用道楊梅交流道有增設的北上交流道的專用道"},{"start":846.487,"end":870.824,"text":"所以這是這個專用道之後當然對於我們縱貫路還有高速公路交流道當初這個交通擁捨改善改善的情形非常好但是現在面臨一個問題就是機車族希望能夠增設一個機車專用道避免他們在跟專用道的時候跟我們下高速公路交流道很多的汽車造成那個擠壓那個"},{"start":872.845,"end":880.851,"text":"曾曾道路後造成他們很多的危險性所以他們希望能夠在各個地方來增設我們的機車專用道"},{"start":883.22,"end":906.923,"text":"這個部分因為它主要是要分流嘛然後我想說這部分也一樣就是交通局先提出來對我希望這部分交通局配合因為這之前提出像我們南崁跟中壢新屋交通道都有做這個計策專用道不知道為什麼到陽梅爭取的時候你們就百般的很多的問題說這也不行那也不行可是對我們來講我們覺得那都是藉口"},{"start":907.463,"end":907.823,"text":"謝謝涂委員權吉的質詢"}]}},{"id":"150301","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150301","video_url":"https://i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- 11:01:48","影片長度":"00:16:22","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":982,"end_time":"2024-03-22T11:01:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T10:45:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":977,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（10時45分）韓院長好。今天我剛好是立法院交通組質詢排在第一個，我再次特別感謝國民黨的立委，以及民眾黨的立委來跟我鼓勵加油，還有民進黨的立委共襄盛舉，這可以講是立法院總質詢人最多、最熱鬧的一天。在此我也相信韓院長一定會和諧、公平主持會議，帶領我們國會革新，還有對國家重要政策做最好的決定，我相信這是一個好的開始。","現在開始我請行政院的陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：陳委員早安。"],["陳委員超明：陳院長好。我很好奇，請教陳院長一個問題，人家是以前從行政院院長再去競選總統、副總統，你當過副總統，現在又來做行政院院長，這兩個的區別在哪裡？你的感受何在？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得我在任何的職務上都是兢兢業業，做我該做的事情。"],["陳委員超明：我曉得這是官方標準答案，我問的是兩個心態的差別在哪裡？做副總統較輕鬆，還是做行政院長較輕鬆、權大勢大，哪一個？"],["陳院長建仁：各有各的責任，我當副總統的時候因為要做年金改革，又要做婚姻平權等等，是有相當多責任。在行政院長時當然更多，各個部會都有，就像你剛才講的交通、衛環、經濟都要involve。"],["陳委員超明：都要懂嘛！好像解決煩惱的事情……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["陳委員超明：複雜的事情比較多。"],["陳院長建仁：全力以赴。"],["陳委員超明：那我再請教你，你當行政院院長剩下2個月。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["陳委員超明：你有沒有感覺到，做一天和尚，敲一天鐘，人走茶涼。有沒有這樣的感覺？"],["陳院長建仁：我剛才已經講過，我做任何事情都是兢兢業業地做，我一定會認真做到5月19日，而且會跟新的內閣無縫接軌，因為剛好也是民進黨繼續執政。"],["陳委員超明：另外一個重點問題，像我今天要跟你質詢的問題，你跟我講好或是答應下來的事情，你會不會交給下一任行政院長？不然我這樣問、總質詢就沒什麼氣力啦！會不會交代下去？"],["陳院長建仁：確實像你說的，我剛剛說過，這一任內閣跟下一任的內閣一定會無縫接軌，我今天在這裡答復你的這些質詢，實際上我們會好好地傳下去……"],["陳委員超明：行政一貫，所以不管部長或什麼有沒有留下來，都一定要幫我交代，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好，這個當然。"],["陳委員超明：我也特別感謝陳院長，我說你是所有官員裡面比較不敢講不真實話的人，因為我感受很深，就造橋交流道，剛好選舉期間你們執政黨跟我們候選人站在一起，你看到我在那邊講話比較……仍然把我名字講出來說我貢獻很多，不然那個場合都是講你們的功勞，所以這點我很稱讚。你是一個比較誠實、誠懇的人，這點我對你非常肯定。"],["陳院長建仁：這是我一定要做的。"],["陳委員超明：再來，我想NCC我很少講話，我自己也有官司現在在打，打了16次官司，新聞的自由報導和平衡報導很重要。交通部長，我請NCC。"],["主席：請NCC主委備詢。"],["陳委員超明：主委，你也不要上來啦！院長，我只建議一項，16次的官司失敗，這代表著一種一連串的失敗，這是很丟臉的事情。行政機關都請了最好的律師，怎麼會一直失敗？"],["陳院長建仁：我想官司……"],["陳委員超明：我從政以來，沒有請過一個官員說你要下臺或怎麼樣，你要自動辭職啦！因為我看了整個事件，尤其我是無黨籍的，真的！關閉一個新聞台是很重要的事情，你們很輕率在處理這樣的事情，本來民主進步，但我感覺是民主退步，這次的內閣，我只跟你建議一樣事情，好不好？NCC陳主委，你可以回去了。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我可以講一下嗎？關於NCC相關的訴訟案，每一個人的算法都不一樣，不同審級也在算，但是實際上其中有26個案子，14件是勝訴，只有2件敗訴。"],["陳委員超明：不要說沒有報導你們好的或怎麼樣，你就去修理人家，我們都看得很清楚啦！人有比較，這是一個良心問題，起碼臺灣的進步要有一個公正的價值在。我很少講這樣的話，我今天這個問題問到這個地方。"],["陳院長建仁：是啦，我想每一個……"],["陳委員超明：中天沒有這麼嚴重說犯了那麼大的錯誤啊！我是講良心話。"],["陳院長建仁：每一個部會首長大家都很認真、努力。"],["陳委員超明：莊委員在下面一直看著我，我相信他很認同我的觀點，因為你沒有講話。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，我可以回答嗎？"],["陳委員超明：這樣就好。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：新聞的平衡報導很重要。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，讓他說一下啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：訴訟的成敗是以確定為主，我們已經回應得很清楚了，我們是14件勝訴，中間是2件，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：我時間有限，好不好？就這樣就好，你們變來變去，跟教授、你們法律……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：訴訟的制度就是這樣，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：公道自在人心，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好。"],["陳委員超明：現在我繼續，陳主委你下去，不是不給你講，因為時間的關係，確實也沒有什麼好講的。","我今天要講的第一個就是，因應我們桃竹苗大矽谷計畫，苗栗重大的建設，我這邊列出了三個大的重要建設，請我們的行政院長還有王部長要全力支持。第一個，五楊高高架化延伸到頭份的地方，這個非常重要，因為桃竹苗大矽谷計畫是跟新竹市連結在一起的，所以這個地方要趕快延伸到那邊，未來才有發展，交通才不會擁擠。還有一條是大家比較輕忽的，也感謝院長把新竹到香山西濱高架化，這一條也很重要，因為竹南、頭份、後龍都是連接著新竹縣、新竹市，所以大矽谷計畫這個要完成。然後是大新竹輕軌計畫，我跟院長、部長講，新竹市和苗栗縣的竹南、頭份是聯合在一起，生活圈也在一起，所以在新竹的輕軌計畫，你們勢必要延伸到竹南、頭份，才能整個紓解交通問題，這個可以全力支持我們嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我想前面二個計畫委員都很清楚，現在都不斷地在推動、進行當中，當然，針對新竹的輕軌計畫，這個計畫基本上應該是地方政府來推動，我們會看它推動的狀況，有必要的話，交通部會來幫助。"],["陳委員超明：地方輕軌計畫是由地方政府推動，還是中央政府推動？還是地方政府規劃……"],["陳院長建仁：輕軌是地方政府。"],["陳委員超明：是地方規劃，來跟中央申請經費？好，這個我來處理，我會追蹤、考核。","再來第二點，苗栗高鐵站增班勢在必行，從2016年到2023年，我們已經超過100萬人次進出，以前很少，我都不好意思開口，但是我們才1小時一班，我為了要來臺北質詢，都要一大早起來。我希望不管是南下或北上，在二個小時之間再增加一班，不然到我們那邊坐高鐵，確實要1小時一班，院長，這部分可以幫忙我們嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我叫高鐵公司來研議，當然委員你也很清楚，高鐵再增加班次……"],["陳委員超明：因為我們苗栗很尷尬，到臺北40分鐘，到臺中才28分鐘就到了，所以你們都把它輕忽掉，你看桃園、新竹、臺中的班次那麼多……"],["陳院長建仁：我瞭解委員的問題。"],["陳委員超明：你也可憐一下我們的發展，不能只照顧某些地方。"],["陳院長建仁：我瞭解委員的問題，我想高鐵公司也瞭解。"],["陳委員超明：我也拜託王部長，我馬上會召開協調會，請你們把計畫擬好。我希望在陳院長的任內把它通過，好不好？不要笑著不回答，好像沒你們的事。"],["王部長國材：我請高鐵公司跟你開會再討論一下。"],["陳委員超明：我希望合理，不然一個小時才一班是很痛苦的事，前不著村，後不著店。"],["陳院長建仁：看需求、看人數有多少。"],["陳委員超明：我這個講話的空間已經很大了，兩個小時增加一班，這是不苛刻的要求，好不好？不要只有大都會的班次特別多，我們非六都的班次特別少，真的要加強改進。不要大都市的人生活全部都有依靠，我們這邊都沒人在照顧，我希望改進一點。"],["陳院長建仁：我請高鐵公司來研究，再跟委員討論。"],["陳委員超明：王部長，你跟高鐵公司講，叫它15天弄一個計畫出來，這個很快，我馬上召開協調會議。陳院長，你就答應，王部長也答應通過，好不好？"],["王部長國材：我請他們先研究，再跟你討論。"],["陳委員超明：院長在，你不敢亂答應，院長說答應、點頭在笑。"],["陳院長建仁：我請他們研究。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？我講的都合理。院長，我不是隨便講話的人，我跟你一樣是誠懇、實在的人。"],["陳院長建仁：對，但是也要考慮到高鐵的營運成本跟效益。"],["陳委員超明：再來是鐵路雙軌化，我講了很久，講了十幾年，我總質詢說過七遍，現在所有的鐵路連東部都雙軌化，只有苗栗到臺中這一段沒有雙軌化，雖然已經核定了，你們要6年才完成，這跟我們的大矽谷計畫連接臺中、新竹市都息息相關。這個已經核定67億、15.9公里，我希望你們把6年完成改為4年完成，你交代一下，效率別那麼低啦！15.9公里竟然要做6年，上不了檯面，表示你們行政效率很低！"],["陳院長建仁：委員也很清楚，工程當然可以快，也可以慢，但是在整個規劃當中，我們原則上都同意這樣進行。如果能加快，我們就加快，但是交通部比較清楚，我請部長簡單說明一下。"],["陳委員超明：從我當立法委員到現在，講了12年，現在才動工，速度可以快一點嗎？"],["王部長國材：因為可行性評估已經通過了，再來就是綜合規劃，我們加速來進行。"],["陳委員超明：這個麻煩一下。再來是苑裡跨站式站房，為什麼提這一點？當初我協調的時候，你們說要把這個放在雙軌計畫裡面。現在我們查了一下，雙軌計畫沒有納入苑裡跨站式站房，你們的預算有一百六十幾億，這只需要3億而已，可以請鐵道局或鐵路公司去完成嗎？因為苑裡的發展差別很大，只隔著一條鐵路，兩邊的發展情形差別很大，而且1天有2,200人在這邊上下車，這個你們來做一下。"],["陳院長建仁：我想這還是要和地方政府再來溝通。"],["陳委員超明：院長，你是好人，這個請你答應我，3億而已，大方一點，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：我們現在會協助苗栗縣政府。"],["陳委員超明：縣政府沒錢，所以我拜託你們做，他們也不會設計，你就答應，讓我永遠懷念你。"],["陳院長建仁：好。我跟委員說……"],["陳委員超明：答應，這樣好嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：3月20日交通部已經有收到苗栗縣政府的公文，所以我會請交通部開始來進行。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？王部長，拜託。包括你們當地的議員都提出來，這是綠油油的地方，我這次好不容易才贏了一次，選了五次，沒有一次贏，但是我仍然照做，這個拜託你幫我完成一下。"],["陳院長建仁：所以縣政府也要加油。"],["陳委員超明：縣政府會加油，但這個是我要負責的。"],["陳院長建仁：地方、中央雙方來合作，這很重要。"],["陳委員超明：你答應我了？"],["陳院長建仁：我說公文已經送來了，交通部會趕快進行、溝通。"],["陳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陳委員 陳委員 陳委員 陳委員 陳委員 陳委員"},{"start":26.158,"end":52.76,"text":"教宗執行排在第一個我再次特別感謝國民黨的立委還有民眾黨的立委來跟我鼓勵加油還有民進黨的立委來共襄施政這可以講是立法院總執行人最多最熱鬧的一天我也在此相信我們的韓院長一定以和諧公平來指使會議來啊"},{"start":55.664,"end":70.351,"text":"拜託來帶領我們國會的革新還有對國家重要政策作為一個最好的決定我相信這個是一個好的開始那現在我開始請我們行政院的陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢陳院長我很好奇請教陳院長一個問題"},{"start":83.871,"end":101.119,"text":"人家是以前從行政院長再去競選總統副總統你當過副總統現在又來做行政院長這兩個區別在哪裡?你的感受在哪裡?我覺得我在任何的職務上都是"},{"start":105.172,"end":117.88,"text":"我曉得這是官方標準答案,我問的是兩個心態的差別在哪裡?這副總統該勤商還是這行政院長該勤商?全大、四大哪一個?"},{"start":118.32,"end":118.82,"text":"都要懂阿"},{"start":139.83,"end":154.987,"text":"解決煩惱的事情、複雜的事情比較多。我再請教你,你當行政院剩下兩個月,你有沒有感覺到我做一天和尚敲一天鐘,人走茶樑?"},{"start":157.516,"end":171.867,"text":"我想我剛才已經講過我做任何的事情都是盡盡業業的來做我一定會做到5月19日認真做到5月19日而且會跟新的內閣來做無縫的接軌因為剛好也是民進黨繼續執政"},{"start":173.508,"end":187.453,"text":"另外一個重點問題,像我今天要跟你執行的問題,你跟我講好或是答應下來的事情,你會不會交給下一任的行政院長,沒有這樣問這個意思,第二種執行就沒什麼用啦。"},{"start":189.134,"end":191.316,"text":"我會不會交代下去?我會特別感謝我們陳院長"},{"start":213.7,"end":240.185,"text":"我說你是所有官員裡面比較不敢講不真實話的人,因為我感受很深。在趙喬交流不到,剛好選舉的期間,你們執政黨跟我的候選人站在一起,你看到我在那邊講話比較悲慘,容然把我名字講出來,所以我貢獻很多。不然我出的場合都是蔣明功啦,所以我這一點很稱讚。你是一個比較"},{"start":242.039,"end":270.282,"text":"誠實誠懇的人這是我一定要做的再來我想NCC我很少講話然後我自己有官司現在在打打了16次的官司新聞的自由報導跟平衡的報導很重要交通部長我講NCC我講NCC啦不是啊不是那個主委你也不要上來啦"},{"start":271.26,"end":292.128,"text":"我只建議一項,院長,16次的官司失敗這代表了一種一連串的失敗,這是一件小事。行政機關都請了最好的律師怎麼會一直失敗?我想,我想你,因為我從這以來沒有請過一個官員說你要下台怎麼樣?"},{"start":293.12,"end":313.556,"text":"你要自動辭職啦因為我看了整個事件尤其我是無黨了真的關閉一個新聞台是很重要的事情你真的很 你們很輕率在處理這樣事情本來民主進步我感覺是民主退步我只說在這那個我跟你建立一樣的事情好不好"},{"start":313.916,"end":326.211,"text":"委員我可以講一下嗎?關於那個NCC這個相關的訴訟案,當然每一個人的算法都不一樣啦,不同審計也在算,但是實際上其中26個案子,14件是勝訴,只有兩件敗訴。"},{"start":333.519,"end":335.12,"text":"好不好,這樣就好,來。"},{"start":361.397,"end":362.618,"text":"我今天第一個就是"},{"start":391.298,"end":416.354,"text":"因應我們投擲紫苗大溪谷的計畫苗栗重大的建設我在這邊有三個大的重要建設請我們的行政院長還有我們的王部長要大全力的支持。第一個舞陽高高價化延伸到頭分的地方這個非常重要因為紫苗大溪谷計畫"},{"start":417.415,"end":446.381,"text":"是跟著新宿市連結在一起。所以你這個地方要趕快延伸到那邊未來才有發展。交通才不會擁擠。還有一條大家比較情為感謝院長期間把那個新宿到香山啊那個西濱的高架化這一條也很重要因為直覽、投運、貨輪都是連接著新宿縣新宿市的。所以大西埔這一計畫這個要完成。"},{"start":447.401,"end":466.083,"text":"然後一個大新竹的輕軌計劃,我給院長、部長您要知道,新竹市及廟的主覽投資是聯合在一起,生活圈也在一起。所以在這個新竹的輕軌計劃,你們勢必要延展到主覽投資,才能整個施解交通問題。"},{"start":468.983,"end":480.909,"text":"這議員轉了到高雄市市委我想這個前面兩個計畫委員都很清楚現在都在不斷的在推動進行當中那大新竹的這個輕軌計畫這個計畫基本上應該是地方政府"},{"start":486.211,"end":498.381,"text":"再來推動,那我們會看他推動的狀況,有必要的話,我們交通部會來幫助。地方政府推動還是中央政府推動?還是地方政府規劃?規劃來跟中央申請選委。這個我來處理,我會追蹤考核。再來第二點,"},{"start":507.895,"end":527.768,"text":"我們苗栗高鐵站中班勢必在行。我為2016年到2023年我們已經超過一百萬進次了,以前很少我都不好意思開口。但是我們才一小時一班,我為了要來台北執行我都一大早要起來。"},{"start":528.649,"end":540.579,"text":"我希望不管你南下北上在兩個小時之間再參加一班,不然到我們那邊做高鐵的幫忙確實到一小時一班。"},{"start":541.94,"end":551.426,"text":"議長,這能幫我倒數嗎?因為我苗栗很尷尬,到臺北是10分鐘,到臺中才28分鐘就到了,所以你們都把他稱呼掉,你看桃園新竹,臺中的班次那麼多,我們真的發展,你們就拖廉一下。"},{"start":567.657,"end":571.26,"text":"我希望,我也拜託王部長,我馬上會召開協調會領把計畫領好,我希望在我們陳院長的任內裡面把他通過啦,好嗎?"},{"start":584.751,"end":593.836,"text":"不要笑著不回答,還算是沒有你們的事情。我希望合理的,沒有這樣啦,一張張單純單純通通的事情。我這個講我的空間已經很大了,兩個小時增加一班啦,這不苛刻的要求好不好。"},{"start":613.025,"end":620.691,"text":"不要只有大都會的地方,班次特別多。我們這個回六都的班次特別少,真的要加強改進。"},{"start":621.924,"end":634.367,"text":"不要為大都市的人在生活,全部都依靠他們,我們這邊都沒有人在照顧,希望改進一點。我叫國體來研究啦,跟委員來討論。王部長,你跟高鐵公司講,叫他15天弄一個計畫出來,這個很快,我馬上召開協調會。陳院長,你就答應,王部長答應通過好不好。"},{"start":646.734,"end":657.323,"text":"我請議員先研究,然後再討論。你院長在,你不敢亂答應,院長所答應,電台在消音。我講的都合理啦,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理。"},{"start":664.249,"end":688.937,"text":"鐵路雙軌化,我這講了久了,講了十幾年,我總執行七年。現在所有鐵路連東部都雙軌化,只有我們苗栗到台中這一段沒有雙軌化,雖然已經合定了,6年完成。這跟我們的大四股計畫連接台中都是新知識,都是息息相關。這個已經合定。"},{"start":691.659,"end":701.05,"text":"17月15.9公里,我希望你們6年完成改為4年完成,你交代一下啦,效率沒那麼高啦,"},{"start":702.478,"end":711.58,"text":"議員你也很清楚,這工程當然是可以進來可以辦,但是這整個中間,我們希望這最多統一來進行,當然如果可以加緊就加緊。但是這個溝通不太清楚,我想補充簡單講一下。補充簡單講一下。"},{"start":728.165,"end":732.732,"text":"引進可行性貴來就是綜合規劃,我們加速,我們加速來進行"},{"start":735.168,"end":756.695,"text":"這個麻煩一下,再來怨語跨戰式的,為什麼提了這一條?當初我協調的時候說你們的雙軌計畫要把這個計畫放在裡面,現在我們查了一下,雙軌計畫沒有放著怨語跨越式的車站,這一點嘛,你們這個一百六十幾個"},{"start":758.161,"end":777.995,"text":"這只有三個月,還是要請你們鐵道局還是鐵路公司把它完成掉,因為縣裡的發展那個差別很大,一條鐵路直隔著兩邊的情形發展差別很大,而且一天有2200人在這邊上下車,這條你們來做一下。"},{"start":780.202,"end":785.407,"text":"我希望這有辦法跟政府再來溝通。院長,你是好人,這條你給我三頁,三頁而已,唉唷,該逮捕你。好不好?我現在會跟廟裡館政府來..."},{"start":797.62,"end":800.122,"text":"我跟委員講這三月20時苗栗縣政府的公文已經交通部有收到所以我的交通部開始來進行"},{"start":819.8,"end":844.799,"text":"包括你們那邊的議員都提出來,我講你們那邊的都提出來,這個是利益予予的地方。我這次好不容易才贏了一次,選了五次沒有一次贏。但是我容然遭受,這個拜託你幫我完成一下,再下來。所以說管政府無論如何都要加油啦。沒有啦,管政府會加油啦,就我不介意。就用地方來合作啦,這很重要。你給我答應喔。"},{"start":845.64,"end":846.28,"text":"臺中臺中都要拜託時間到了"},{"start":873.021,"end":899.043,"text":"啊,這個以前我是從鐵道局,這個很成功的一個案例,就是3億的Royalbike要延伸到台中,其實那一段很漂亮,尤其台中的人口那麼多,兩邊一交流下來,這一條是在交通裡面光光景點,最成功的一個示範的一個基地啊。啊,現在我想說一定,"},{"start":899.781,"end":915.307,"text":"委員延伸到台中1點,麻煩您來幫忙一下,這裡面還有人都要來加強設施的地方。好,我還要跟委員報告一下,剛才鐵道自行車的補紛在廖嶺管政府在做的時候是做得很成功,像你說的那樣。但是現在要延伸到台中的時候,我也要跟台中市政府再來,"},{"start":931.654,"end":942.88,"text":"時間有限,你幫我放通宵的銅鑼科學引擎到通宵盡量。這一條,我希望在我日內能完成,非常重要的道路。"},{"start":944.997,"end":966.566,"text":"哎喲,西湖的進出加個完成,這不會花很多錢,但是對地方的發展很重要。那我相信我這個四年的立委任期,我希望能動工或是完成,我就功成身退了。我要請議長這樣輕鬆一點,請你幫我完成一點。"},{"start":971.428,"end":972.429,"text":"謝謝陳委員超明的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。"}]}},{"id":"150300","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150300","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e4dc942c9077834bbfd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6035ce6f1aebce8e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"17:18:52 - 17:48:43","影片長度":"00:29:51","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":1791,"end_time":"2024-03-22T17:48:43+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T17:18:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1060,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（17時19分）謝謝韓院長，有請我們行政院陳院長。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：午安。"],["魯委員明哲：陳院長，我們王部長可以一起上來。"],["主席：請交通部王部長。"],["魯委員明哲：首先，從去年疫情趨緩之後旅遊完全開放，不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊，我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的，原本我們對國旅很多觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待，憑良心講到現在會覺得說……你看到這上面，我們清明連假還沒到，目前初步的一個報導，訂房率到四成五，我希望能夠更好、我們希望能夠再高。","春節旅遊已經過了，訂房率大概到6成，其他點點滴滴就不講了，有些相關產業、觀光的店家也不斷的反映，我想部長跟院長應該都非常關心，因為觀光旅遊業有很多人在過去兩年多嗷嗷待哺，我覺得能夠撐下來的真的不容易。對於國旅的春燕，現在聽到這些問題，院長還是部長來說說看你們的看法，你們覺得為什麼會這樣？能不能有效的協助國旅？"],["陳院長建仁：我請部長來回答。"],["王部長國材：是，我跟委員報告，事實上現在國旅在假日還是很熱，當然離島在冬天比較差，前陣子我們跟離島的幾位委員討論怎麼樣做促銷，比如說運具買一送一等等的促銷也在做。因為國境開放以後，有些人會往國外跑，我們也跟所有觀光業在談吸引力，一定要能夠吸引大家願意留在國內，這部分包括觀光署相關的建設計劃，包括國際魅力景區計畫，風管處的相關計畫也都在進行，最重要……"],["魯委員明哲：好，你剛剛講的這個我也非常認同，因為我們疫情期間編很多預算，也投入了當時觀光局、交通部很多的預算，有些是希望直接促銷國旅的，有很多是硬體的改善，那時候觀光局局長也再三答應，不光是答應我，他跟委員說：我們正好像各國一樣，藉這個時間把所有基礎設施、景點及相關設施弄好。可是我們看到最近出國的熱潮、看到了幾則報導，我心裡雖然覺得有點不服氣，但是人家講的又好像是真的，他說日本經過兩年多疫情已經進化升級，國旅還在原地踏步啊！我想他講的是非常廣泛，有私部門、有公部門的，你對於這句話、這個報導，就是國際很多吸引觀光客的作為，在疫情階段，他們的基礎建設和觀光是想方設法提升，希望疫後能夠在世界的市場搶得頭籌，你覺得臺灣有沒有落後？院長要不要講一下？"],["陳院長建仁：好，要促進國旅，實際上中央政府、觀光署的推動當然是很重要，但是地方政府也很重要，剛才賴瑞隆委員提到，像是以高雄國旅來講，高雄每次音樂會的時候，人潮不得了，有很多很多人，所以我們也希望中央跟地方一起配合，發展地方的觀光特色，像高雄辦了很多重要音樂會，他們在觀光國旅的部分就會增加，這確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力啦！"],["魯委員明哲：好，院長，但我們希望整體、各個城市各有特色、各有想法、各有努力，真的很棒，既然觀光局升署了，大家都對它有期待，我相信院長也是。","現在我請教一下，今年我們希望來臺的人數，因為國人希望能夠旅遊，如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮，我們也希望國外來臺的旅客，不管是商務也好、純觀光的也好，希望人能夠多一點。部長有特別說過，今年目標是1,200萬人，你之前希望陸客也能夠來臺，如果沒有辦法開放陸客的話，也會持續想辦法努力，現在看起來兩岸的觀光旅遊並沒有很好的氣氛，不管我們要去、他們要來，氣氛都不好，但我不談政治的事，客人沒來，你現在對於達標的狀況，要不要修正一下呢？"],["王部長國材：的確當時觀光署估計的1,200萬裡面，大概有200到250萬是陸客，我們去年也大概是這個狀況，600萬裡面有100萬的陸客，結果最後是648萬，我們的目標是這樣，能早一點開放陸客來，當然這個目標就能早一點達到，如果沒有、我們繼續努力，目前這個目標還沒有修正，大概以這個為目標，但是……"],["魯委員明哲：就是扣掉陸客的部分，大概是1,000萬，不過，現在1月到2月，我幫你統計了，有118萬，平均大概50接近60萬，如果以12個月計算的話，我預估可能有700萬到800萬，所以我覺得這是設定目標，我們在這裡不是要吐槽，而是要努力嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["魯委員明哲：如果現在是七、八百萬，到底該怎麼樣去補足？我那一天聽到了副院長的談話，院長你應該也知道吧？","（播放影片）"],["魯委員明哲：說真的，那天聽到我們副院長這一席的宣布，其實我個人很贊成也很興奮，為什麼？大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限，如果真的可成的話，機場附近的城市，機場附近的景點，是可以優先獲利的，當然，我覺得這如果可以開放，那是很重要的，往北可能可以到蘆竹、新北，大家都會在第一線受惠。關於這個部分，1個月過去了，那時是2月22日，現在3月22日了，院長，因為這個不是交通部的，真的跨了很多的單位，院長知道有這個宣布嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我記得當天因為我也在……"],["魯委員明哲：開會了沒有？我覺得至少行政院要主持相關的會議吧？"],["陳院長建仁：有，已經有開過會，我請部長來說明。"],["魯委員明哲：現在狀況怎麼樣？請說。"],["王部長國材：的確，當時副院長是希望這個能有625萬，但是在跨部會包括外交、包括移民署討論的時候，認為有一些轉機客進來，如果採免簽證可能會有一些問題，所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好。"],["魯委員明哲：現在已經胎死腹中了嗎？沒有吧？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有！沒有！"],["魯委員明哲：還在繼續吧？要努力！"],["陳院長建仁：還在研議中。"],["王部長國材：因為免簽證的部分牽涉到很多課題，尤其過去都一定要有簽證的那些國家，你要不要在機場就讓他直接免簽證進來，這個部分副院長有召開會議在討論。"],["陳院長建仁：現在還在研議中。"],["王部長國材：在突破中！"],["魯委員明哲：以112年來說，我們轉機旅客到達625萬，當然，未來是怎麼樣不清楚，但至少會有幾百萬人，像五、六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶來源，當然有些很快就要轉機的，他不可能會出來，所以我拜託你們趕快去研究，現在我們覺得4小時之內的，我覺得交通部也是要看一下，像樟宜機場，他們在機場那個領域裡面，那個所謂小城市的觀光很熱門，有一些瀑布，有一些綠帶，還有兒童園區，而且有些是要收門票的，所以在裡面就有產值，不是純給你觀光的，當然免稅店大家都有啦！我倒是覺得一、二航廈看起來沒機會了，三航廈的部分，因為還有時間，我真的是建議，就是要去吸引那些轉機客，時間短的，他進不了城市；4小時之內的，我覺得如果我們有一些可以像世界特色機場的東西，他去那邊都必定要去看的，我倒是覺得這個部分可以考慮，我在這裡建議，你在三航廈能夠考量一下，像這樣有室內的，包括在機場這個小城市裡面的觀光；8小時以內，甚至8小時以上的，我們這些鄰近的城市對此可是有著非常深的期待，因為據我們判斷，機場最重要的、直接的交通工具就是機場捷運、機捷，不管從A12、A13、一航廈、二航廈，甚至他們還可以搭一站、兩站或是搭個幾站，很快半個小時內可以抵達的，往南就是我的轄區中壢，像青埔、中壢市區，我們也希望這些旅客來到我們這裡；往北到蘆竹、新北甚至林口，我們都希望這個部分能夠儘快來做，就算第一階段只有50萬、60萬，總是能夠一步一步向前走。院長，這個你要幫忙一下，雖然是看守內閣，但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事，這個事情下一階段該怎麼推動？因為你有很多困難，交通部要去推這個事情，不管是外交部領事事務局，甚至移民署，這個部分我拜託院長要多費心，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分我剛才已經講過，已經請鄭副院長召開相關各部會的會議，這個也正在研議當中，我會請鄭副院長繼續來推動。剛才您講的這些構想不錯，現在有很多需要解決的問題，我們一步一步來解決，希望能夠早日能有轉機客的旅遊。"],["魯委員明哲：未來機場捷運的承載功能越來越多，首先是疫情之後乘客回流，第二個就是行政院推出TPASS後，很多民眾通勤選擇機捷，所以目前承載人次快速成長，第三個就是機場國門原本的功能，現在預計又增加一個轉機客大部分會使用的重要工具。針對這個部分，首先我要在這裡再次拜託院長跟部長，我上一次總質詢也說過，但我要先謝謝，因為上次完全沒有交集，這一次不一樣了。當然，我們知道行政院有幫忙先定調。機捷公司、桃捷公司為因應未來的人潮，認為需要9列直達車、6列普通車。目前已經溝通了好幾次，行政院層級也介入了，目前中央的評估雖然還沒有定案、沒有確定，但大概會給三分之二，也就是直達車6列、普通車4列；經費原本大約90億，現在變成60億。我相信院長你也知道，副院長也一直在協調這件事情……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["魯委員明哲：但是這60億要怎麼補助？院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點？"],["陳院長建仁：有關補助的情況，還是會跟地方政府再協調。這件事情我跟您報告一下，實際上，我們副院長與桃園市政府有很密集在溝通，至於金額是多少？他們還在商量的過程，可是我們會儘可能協助機捷購車，這個我們確實是有……"],["魯委員明哲：謝謝院長……"],["陳院長建仁：希望他們也能提出計畫……"],["魯委員明哲：院長，儘可能讓政策實施。我覺得未來總共要15列，至少第一階段大家達成共識的先上，因為這個車子從訂購到真正製造、再進廠都好幾年之後了，搞不好轉機客都已經進來了，所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點。剛剛院長特別說會盡力幫忙，在評估的時候，我們當然也知道有一些道理。那天我們在桃園市政府開會的時候，王部長也特別說，以目前你們計畫計算的方式，這60億怎麼計算呢？行政院與交通部認為直達車跟中央政策相關，地方則是承載了中央國門的責任，因為這是國境進出的重要交通工具，它就是進進出出，搞不好也不到城市裡面來，這部分中央補助84%，等於補助大部分。我覺得這合理，真的合理，因為有些人拿了行李就上飛機了，既不到桃園也不到新北。所以我要問一下部長，這84%是因為它承載了國境出入，才有這樣的考量是不是？"],["王部長國材：是，對。"],["魯委員明哲：你們內部的討論是這樣嗎？"],["王部長國材：對，鄭副院長有開過會，直達車比較像國家的門面在進出，普通車則比較地方，像臺北捷運有地方性……"],["陳院長建仁：像捷運。"],["王部長國材：所以現在直達車84%，以60億算起來大概是30億。"],["魯委員明哲：普通車你們的補助是0%，0%的原因是城際，現在有三個城市：桃園、新北、臺北，每一站來來去去，是人民走動的過程，這點我理解。這個推斷的邏輯，我真的可以接受，如果普通車真的是這樣的話。但我覺得這個思考有一點北向思考，就是有臺北的觀點，因為直達車目前主要是跑臺北，新北停兩站後，就直接殺進機場，對不對？。現在一天幾十班裡，大概有八到九輛列車跑到中壢、青埔站，有是有，但絕大部分都在臺北出發，那是首都，我沒有意見喔，我沒有意見，首都是這樣的。但是南向思考，我們要往南邊走的人呢？這些旅客呢？國人或旅客要從機場南端進國門，有沒有用機捷這件事啦？所以我現在在討論這個事情。","因為A23站是中壢火車站，難得一條機捷串接了臺北火車站是頭，尾巴到了中壢火車站，這兩個很特別啊，可是我跟你講，臺北火車站有直達車，中壢沒有直達車，對不對？就算我們再幾年蓋好之後，中壢沒有直達車，因為訊號的關係，我們在前面兩站就用手動切了，車沒有辦法直接衝進來啦，所以只能用普通車。所以以南向的思考來說，中壢火車站你們的預估是再2、3年會正式通車，這些從南向坐火車、臺鐵來的國人或外國旅客，他不是從臺北市進站，他是從中壢火車站進站，但他唯一能搭的就只有普通車喔，所以我要特別拜託。高鐵的運量更大，到了高鐵站，他也不可能等你直達車啦，因為一小時不到一班。","所以我的意思是說，如果普通車真的能在科學上、數據上證明它沒有國門的功能，你給我0%，沒意見！但如果證明是有，我這邊拜託院長、部長還要繼續討論。它確實有承載，承載的實際數據我不是在說故事，中壢站還沒通喔，中壢站一通，我相信火車串接的人會更多。現況就是南端從青埔到中壢A22，還沒到火車站，是前一站，在整個中壢市區跟青埔地區，我抓一個月的期間，從2月21日到3月21日，就是到昨天為止，這幾個站的進站人數是51萬8，就是從那邊跑進來的，要去什麼目的地的都有，去臺北的也有，但目的地是在A12、A13跟A14a機場旅館站的總共是19萬7,000多人，也就是說，具體的數字是很多人搭乘普通車，因為他們沒有直達車，其中38%的人就是直接去機場，所以我要拜託。","這個數據我私下再給交通部，再給行政院，你們參考一下。我在講的是普通車也承載了南向的國人、旅客直接要去機場這樣的一個國家責任，所以我覺得應該要給予補助。這個部分的數字如果是這樣，院長是不是能夠補助，至少不能是0%吧？"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出資料，我們以往沒有這樣的數據，這個數據當然也就請桃園市政府提供在會議上，讓鄭副院長也能夠納入考慮。確實啦，如果是這樣的話，那就要看哪一些，我不曉得這個數據做的是從哪裡進站的……"],["魯委員明哲：青埔地區，A17是青埔，有三站，青埔地區就是中壢的青埔，跟高鐵，一直到中壢市區。"],["陳院長建仁：如果說從青埔去的話……"],["魯委員明哲：對，青埔到中壢市區，上車要往北向，坐到站點要下車的有這麼多。這樣好不好？因為他們沒有直達車，但他們也要執行像直達車同樣的目的，所以我是在這裡拜託，資料你們去調好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：我曉得你的意思啦……"],["魯委員明哲：我只提供一個意見，你們可以調一整年的，好不好？但是拜託，普通車不要0%，因為它也承載著國家責任，這是我今天拜託你們的，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好，給部長做一個回應。"],["王部長國材：委員，你知道機場捷運當時是兩段連起來的，一個是當時桃園的紫線，另一個是機場到臺北的通勤路線，它的精神是這樣，這是地區的捷運……"],["魯委員明哲：好啦，部長，謝謝你啦，院長都說要考慮了，就拜託你回去考慮一下！","因為我時間不太夠了，接下來要請教一個重大的問題，是我在上一屆立委一上任時主要關心的問題，一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的問題。3年前，110年3月，整整3年前我提出總質詢，交通部當時應該已經是王部長任內了。我只想問一件事情，因為當時這個部分是走到工程細設發包了，工程動工的時間預計是111年4月，現在的時間點是113年3月，我想請教一下，這樣好不好，因為院長可能軌道工程管太多，我想請教部長。民眾也在問我完工日期，這三站（桃園、內壢、中壢）是118年4月，其他的是119年7月，這個部分還是這樣嗎？因為2月29日我跟邱若華二位交通委員會委員跟你們開會，你們提供我的資料還是這個日期，還是嗎？確定嗎？要不要校正一下？"],["王部長國材：我跟魯委員報告，應該各加3年。"],["魯委員明哲：各加3年喔？"],["王部長國材：原因第一個是桃園站的文資，第二個因為平鎮的延伸現在要放到這一期裡面，所以應該各加3年。"],["魯委員明哲：再加3年喔？"],["王部長國材：各加3年。"],["魯委員明哲：你很老實，那我可以下課了。但是拜託你不要再給我這個報告，今天你跟我說再加3年，跟我說真心話，可是3個禮拜前你就沒跟我講真心話。","好啦，今天的情況你也知道，現在施工進度只有平鎮開工了，總工程、主體工程的全工程進度只有0.18%而已，距離還很遠。這個我沒有要怪誰啦，就是事實的資料，讓民眾期待……"],["王部長國材：最大的部分是在平鎮，桃園市政府認為要放到這一期，但平鎮剛剛從可行性開始，其他都在施工了，就會被它拖到。"],["魯委員明哲：好，部長，其實今天就一次講清楚，反正立法院都有紀錄。平鎮站當然大家知道會延期嘛，可是我們先不要講平鎮發生的事，大家看前面3個，當時承諾118年4月會完工的桃園、內壢、中壢三個站，現在發生什麼事呢？當然我也謝謝鐵道局的努力，終於發包出去了，有發包出去不錯了，但是現在發包出去的，我們一看工期，桃園站預計7月開工，你們跟人家合約所簽訂的日曆天工期，公共工程委員會也在這裡，你們簽訂的工期是2,464天，要6年多的時間。簡單來說，就算沒有任何不可歸責於廠商的理由，一天都不延也要到120年，對不對？中壢也是啊，要到120年5月，所以你的意思是說，118年是本來的完工期，加3年，所以我就沒有意見了，因為工程一定還會再延一點。","尤其桃園站現在有三大不確定會造成比較大的延期因素，第一個就是您剛剛很了解的，平鎮南延1.2公里，那個比較嚴重耶，因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍，其實我聽了有一點頭痛。第二個是桃園站的文資問題，文資問題我覺得要積極啦。第三個就是經費的問題，我要拜託，現在是從另外一個角度來反瞻這個問題：現在桃園鐵路地下化發生什麼事了？其實我們最近都在問，還有三個站還沒招標出去嘛，內壢站、桃園醫院站跟新北的鳳鳴站，我一再問說，四個站今年終於標出去了，另外三個怎麼不標、不標、不標，結果私下了解發現是沒錢了！","沒錢的原因是我們只有1,048億。報告院長、部長，你們看一下，下面幾個數據就是我們細設PCM大約匡了20億，用地費匡66億，然後臨時工程、主體工程，還有一些監造，總共加起來，不含這些還沒發包的是960億，所以當年核定的1,048億，如果加上5%還是幾%的公共工程要扣人員費用，其實錢用完了，沒有錢了！所以我現在很煩惱，平鎮這部分要重新提一個修正計畫，它現在要把內壢站、桃醫站、鳳鳴站整個包進去，去走一個奇幻旅遊，奇幻旅遊就一直等，等、等、等。其他三個本來沒問題的嘛，只是差錢，但把它包進去就要等環差分析，要等重新送國發會整個繞一圈，因為我們很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚，我很害怕！可是第一個，原來的1,046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1,500億以上，那這個部分經費會不會有問題？部長，你覺得呢？"],["王部長國材：對，包括南延還有整個物價上漲的部分，我們粗估會增加700億。"],["魯委員明哲：增加多少？"],["王部長國材：700億。"],["魯委員明哲：700億嘛？"],["王部長國材：對，然後……"],["魯委員明哲：你今天是吃了老實藥來的？"],["王部長國材：我從來都實話實說，因為你沒有問過我。然後這個修正計畫現在已經完成了，準備來報修正計畫。"],["魯委員明哲：所以增加700億喔？"],["王部長國材：對，整體。"],["魯委員明哲：因為我這邊算就至少是500億，所以你說增加700億，我是覺得就一次把可能的情況講清楚，這種東西不要微調，也許民眾覺得，哇！怎麼那麼多，但這是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體核算的數字。因為我問鐵道局局長，他死不講耶，他沒有吃那個老實樹的藥，所以他死不講，他說可能一毛都沒增加，哇靠！但是今天把這個事情講清楚……"],["陳院長建仁：不可能一毛錢都……"],["魯委員明哲：所以現在要非常積極。我也要拜託院長，不管未來因為要扯到國發會，又要再繞一圈，又要我們行政院，我想我們現在可以去做的、可以去評估的，我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、桃醫站跟內壢站的整個過程，不要讓他們再受一次折磨跟大家排隊，能不能讓他們先排出來？這三案先走，然後再處理平鎮延伸案，因為它還要做環差分析，速度會慢一點，這個部分是不是請你們能夠考量分工、分別來做處理，可以嗎？"],["王部長國材：你的意思是說分段通車嗎？分段嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：分段建設？"],["魯委員明哲：不是啦！我說工程啦！因為工程……"],["王部長國材：喔，工程喔？報告委員，我們現在就發包，該走就走，然後那個趕快追過來。"],["魯委員明哲：我知道嘛，現在內壢站你要等，你聽不懂嗎？你整個繞完之後，環差分析我跟你講要一年啦，一年之後你才讓它發包，我跟你講，其他的工程是含有站體的喔，它的複雜性不像平鎮延伸工程只是讓地下軌道拉長，相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多，所以你不能讓它們弄在一起，否則到最後，不好意思喔，最後平鎮那個地下會先挖好，那有什麼用！"],["王部長國材：我了解。我了解。"],["魯委員明哲：所以，我要拜託院長、部長，我今天講這個，拜託你，這三個工期都要很久，一定要讓它們單獨一個案子先跑，讓它們先發包，平鎮這部分要經過環境部或是怎麼樣，它的程序會稍微慢一點，但是它的工程會快一點，可不可以朝這個方向來做？"],["王部長國材：大概也是這個方向，就是說在跑的時候讓它整個時間能夠縮短、整體完工的時間縮短。"],["魯委員明哲：楊局長，是不是這樣？看你的臉色好像不太同意喔？拜託啦，這三個只欠東風（錢）的案子讓它們先跑，趕快找到錢先發包；另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過國發會的，我們再另外透過行政來推動，好不好？我就做這樣的拜託，也希望院長能夠再多幫忙。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝魯明哲委員的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來登記第26號賴委員惠員、登記第27號林委員楚茵、登記第28號王委員世堅等三位委員之質詢，均以書面提出，請行政院書面答復並列入紀錄、刊登公報。"],["委員賴惠員書面質詢：","問題一：新營火車站建設狀況","有鑑於新營火車站為選區內最重要的大眾運輸設施，惟設備較為老舊、且由於屬平面鐵路，造成前後站間發展不均等問題。本席於第十屆立法委員任內為提升新營火車站站區多元機能、整周邊動線與土地利用，提出「新營火車站大平台計畫」。","1.請問本計畫目前進度？何時可以開始新建工程？","2.針對現階段周遭行車動線及停車位稀缺等問題，目前有和解決方案？","3.針對現有月台老舊及破損問題，請台鐵公司盡速完成改善。","4.查新營火車站目前為一等站，同時管理後壁及柳營車站，但相較於其他一等站目前並無普悠瑪號停靠，對北台南居民而言僅能於嘉義或台南市區轉乘，相對較為不便，請台鐵公司研議於普悠瑪號及太魯閣號停靠新營車站的可行性，並盡速於下次改點時增加車班。","問題二：六甲高鐵站建設計畫","查高台灣現有高鐵共計11車站，惟各站之間距離並不平均，其中又以台南車站與嘉義車站之間尤為嚴重。由於台南市南北間距離較長，現有台南雖已於沙崙設站，但由於位於台南市南端，與上一站嘉義站之間有長達62公里的距離。此外，溪北及舊縣區有將近120萬人口，與現有車站之彰化縣相近，但僅能奔波至嘉義或南台南搭乘。此外溪北尚有新營產業園區、柳營科技園區、台南科學園區、蘭花生技園區等動要科技、農業發展重鎮，其交通便利性應受重視！","1.本席109年就一直希望增設六甲高鐵站，請問相關方案評估目前是否有進度？","2.請交通部針對是否可增設六甲高鐵站進行可行性評估，其中應包含建設可行性、替代方案、轉乘方案等便利搭乘高鐵措施。","問題三：新營交流道增設出口或高架化可行性","查新營交流道係新營產業園區對外交通重要樞紐，上下班期間用路人口多且交流道周遭平面道路壅塞等原因，嚴重影響周邊上班族交通及整體發展。","為此，本席於第十屆立法委員任內提出新營交流道改善工程計畫，原預計於去年底可完成可行性評估：","1.請問目前本件是否已經完成可行性評估？","2.若已完成評估，本件高公局何時可以完成審議？何時可以開始新建工程？"],["委員林楚茵書面質詢：","一、新北市公車Wi-Fi系統現華為介面，恐有中國資安滲透疑慮","日前媒體報導，有民眾搭乘新北市公車並連結公車提供之Wi-Fi時，畫面卻顯示中國廠商華為之介面，引發國人討論新北市公車使用中國廠商之無線網路軟體服務，是否產生資安破口讓中國趁虛而人。此事件並非首次發生，新北市公車同樣在2019年時被民眾發現公車Wi-Fi設備是使用華為設備。","經查，行政院曾於2020年12月18日以院台護長字第1090201804A號函通令各公務機關公務用之資通訊產品不得使用中國品牌等事宜，並進行相關清查。而新北市政府交通局同樣澄清，目前清查該市2,500輛公車，皆未使用華為Wi-Fi設備。","依據《資通安全管理法》第五條，主管機關應定期公布國家資通安全情勢報告、對公務機關資通安全維護計畫實施情形稽核概況報告及資通安全發展方案等，但根據數位發展部資通安全署所公布之111年度公務機關資安稽核概況報告指出，受稽機關分別共有17個中央機關，並無地方政府相關單位。","鑒於前述事件係屬地方政府權責，考量公車系統為大眾運輸系統，與公共安全息息相關。又2022年8月，時任美國眾議院議長Pelosi女士訪台期間台灣屢遭境外資安攻擊，甚至台鐵廣告看板皆有影響。因此數位發展部針對資通安全稽核分，是否仍舊僅限於中央機關，值得探討。爰此，數位發展部應針對地方政府公務機關的資安稽核情形，或資安發展方案提供相關督導機制，如有法令窒礙難行空間，也應提出修法計畫。","二、連江縣政府交通旅遊局協助辦理「福馬同城通」，交通部知情否？","中共國務院於2023年9月12日發布《中共中央國務院關於支持福建探索海峽兩岸融合發展新路建設兩岸融合發展示範區的意見》，簡稱為「福建對台21條」，主要是以三個方針對台灣進行統戰，分別是以通促融、以惠促融、以情促融，並且設定以福建省為重點工作區域，計畫設置所謂的「兩岸融合發展示範區」，而這三個示範區分別是以「金門+廈門」、「福州+馬祖」成立「共同生活圈」，以及加速「平潭綜合實驗區」的發展。","今年2月起，中共福建省政府更宣布開辦「福馬同城通」交通卡，意圖藉由形塑「福州+馬祖」共同生活圈，以達到統戰目的。然而，連江縣政府北竿鄉公所卻直接在公所網站公告代辦福馬同城通卡（圖1），先至網站表格填寫資料後，鄉公所會再彙整交由連江縣交通旅遊局，連江縣交旅局再交由中國官方協助申請福馬同城通卡，而且審查權限完全交由中國政府。","經查「內政部審查地方政府與大陸地區地方機關之合作行為或締結聯盟申報須知」第二條，地方政府欲與中國地方機關進行合作，必須會商中央目的事業主管機關辦理。爰此，連江縣交旅局協助中共福建省政府代辦福馬同城通卡一事，必須依照此申報須知應送中央目的事業主管機關辦理，也就是交通部。","請交通部說明，連江縣政府交通旅遊局針對此項與中共福建省政府合作行為是否有送交通部，並由交通部共同辦理？倘若交通部未曾收到連江縣政府之申請，請問行政院將如何回應處理？"],["委員王世堅書面質詢：","一、「行車變換車道未打方向燈」檢舉案件不斷，實務上員警執法鮮少針對連續行為連續舉發，但經民眾檢舉者卻不得不罰，本席認為爰有逾越警察裁量權、違反比例原則之爭議，特此詢問行政院院長、交通部：","(一)去年未依規定使用方向燈違規案件多達108萬3千餘件","據警政統計，去年未依規定使用方向燈違規案件高達108萬3千607件，已造成警力負擔過重；例如有一位王姓駕駛人騎乘機車，穿梭於巷弄間，於2分鐘內3次在不同路口轉彎皆未依規定打方向燈，遭後方車輛連續檢舉，「2分鐘內舉發3次」舉發違規之間隔過密、次數過多，2分鐘內舉發3次，舉發違規之間隔過密、次數過多，更有機車騎士曾一次接七單全是罰單，總共要吃8400元罰鍰，顯然違反比例原則！","(二)民眾檢舉害警察無法行使裁量權、違反比例原則被法院認證","前述「2分鐘內舉發3次」案經臺南地方法院認其第1次未打方向燈遭罰，於法並無不合，但後續2次違規行為密集，該裁罰違反比例原則及連續舉發規定而撤銷原處分。另亦有報載曾姓民眾駕車行經國道1號北向入口匝道，1分鐘內2度變換車道未打方向燈，被民眾檢舉遭開2張3千元罰單，案經臺中地方法院認為違規時間、地點均不相同，應分別處罰而駁回，顯見「民眾檢舉害警察無法行使裁量權、違反比例原則已被法院認證」，類此案例有多少？請交通部一周內提供統計資料。","(三)請交通部於一個月內研議未打方向燈遭民眾檢舉之異議申訴方案","雖說按「違反道路交通管理事件統一裁罰基準及處理細則」規定，逕行舉發汽機車未打方向燈，若違規地點相距6公里以上、違規時間相隔6分鐘以上或行駛經過1個路口以上者，方得連續舉發，但實務上對於民眾檢舉，交通部去年12月5日曾函式：「針對違停才需要審認，不符合違規規定才能被駁回，但『未打方向燈』竟不在此限」，本席認為並不合理，請交通部於一個月內研議未打方向燈遭檢舉之異議申訴方案。","(四)通盤檢討修正現行法令所定連續舉發裁罰有關規範","1.本席同意道交條例允許執法員警得以連續舉發裁罰警惕、遏阻交通違規行為，以達維護交通秩序與安全之行政管制目的，惟仍須符合憲法第23條比例原則、授權明確性原則及行政程序法上一般法律原則。","2.近日交通部考量「放寬民眾檢舉項目及增加記違規點數項目，致案件量暴增、1年內記違規點數每達12點即吊扣駕駛執照，各界反映已嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權，並造成警察機關執法量能龐大負擔、且民眾檢舉制度已悖離當初彌補警力不足之立法目的，記違規點數制度亦因道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生實務問題，相關社會爭議亟需解決」等因素，檢討放寬最高罰鍰1,200元以下輕微違規限縮不予民眾檢舉，及當場舉發案件可確認實際駕駛人始予記點，惟並「未放寬每年近百萬件檢舉的未依規定使用方向燈」，請交通部於一周內研議針對情狀輕微之未打方向燈違規案件，是否應一併限縮不予民眾檢舉？","3.「一行為不二罰原則」（禁止雙重處罰原則），乃法治國家依法安定原則、信賴保護原則及比例原則所導出之憲法基本權要求。民眾檢舉舉發案件，理應也適用連續舉發之限制規範，然而交通部卻對法規目的性限縮（交通部2018年11月22日交路字第1070028628號函），認為現行道交條例第85條之1第2項所定第7條之2逕行舉發案件得予連續舉發之限制，尚不宜擴張適用於第7條之1之民眾檢舉舉發案件。請交通部一個月內研議將第7條之1的民眾檢舉舉發案件納入連續舉發限制規範之適用範圍。","二、台鐵太魯閣號列車於2021年4月2日，因撞上邊坡滑落的工程車出軌，造成慘重傷亡，本席針對「邊坡全自動監視預警系統」、「車輛入侵告警系統」及「緊急斷電系統」等建置進度，特此詢問行政院院長、台鐵公司：","(一)邊坡全自動監視預警系統","台鐵公司目前共建置26處「邊坡全自動監視預警系統」所，該系統自112年4月起上線監看至今已逾一年，但皆僅為環境因素（如野生動物入侵軌道、天候雨滴及陽光陰影等因素）才導致告警，尚無因邊坡滑動或落石所啟動之告警，但這兩年年落石侵入軌道之新聞仍有不少，如2023年7月23日土石流侵入集集支線隘寮段、今年3月台鐵九曲堂站民眾闖軌道遭鳴笛聲嚇到摔落邊坡等等；故請台鐵公司一個月內提供近3年所有邊坡異物侵入軌道之記錄、並說明告警系統「零啟動」之原因。","(二)邊坡滑動告警系統","台鐵公司目前於營運路線上之地質敏感區、環境災害潛勢區或曾發生災害等高風險路段，已陸續於37處邊坡完成地工監測儀器設置，總計有119組（水位計、傾度管、地錨荷重計、傾斜儀等），均定期由專業技師依監測數值評估邊坡狀態，適時提供專業判斷及後續因應作為，自去年建置完成至今，亦無因邊坡滑動或落石所啟動之告警；故請台鐵公司一個月內提供近3年所有邊坡滑動之記錄、並說明告警系統「零啟動」之原因。","(三)車輛入侵告警系統","依鐵路法第59條第四款：「臨近鐵路之公路高於鐵路之地段，應由該公路之主管機關，在其臨近鐵路之一邊設置護欄。」但台鐵公司自行評估後僅38處高風險路段規畫設置實體阻隔，僅15處設置告警系統且至今尚未完工，請台鐵說明選定高風險路段的標準為何？車輛入侵防護有其必要性，為何遲至今年2月才動工？並請台鐵公司一個月內提供近3年所有車輛入侵記錄？","(四)緊急斷電系統","台鐵公司的電力系統有即時保護反應裝置，若有路樹或外來物都是cycle等級（<<1秒）跳脫，目前統計112年累計共9次緊急斷電。但卻未對於月台或站區的列車設置緊急停車按鈕。另雖於平交道設有「緊急按鈕」「障礙物自動偵測系統」、車上設有「列車防護無線電」、調度所設有「1933緊急事故通報專線」、及車站「列車監視通報機制」，可以即時通知司機員緊急停車，但無從得知上開系統之效能，故請台鐵公司一個月內提供近5年所有「列車緊急停車」記錄及停車原因？告警系統是否均有啟動？"],["主席：報告院會，交通組之質詢已詢答完畢，非常感謝陳院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。","3月26日（星期二）上午9點繼續開會，進行司法及法制組之質詢。現在休息。","休息（17時49分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善"},{"start":164.915,"end":188.881,"text":"那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情"},{"start":191.081,"end":220.174,"text":"他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我想講的是非常廣泛,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報道,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場"},{"start":221.194,"end":240.172,"text":"蔣德投籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,"},{"start":242.114,"end":257.411,"text":"國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這一個地方的觀光特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候"},{"start":259.393,"end":283.725,"text":"國旅的部分就會增加,那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力。好,院長,但是我們希望說整體啦,各個城市各有特色,各有想法,各有努力,真的很棒。那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了,大家都對它有期待,我相信院長也是。那現在我請教一下,這個是今年我們希望"},{"start":286.54,"end":302.118,"text":"國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今年的目標是1200萬人。"},{"start":304.875,"end":319.344,"text":"那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個"},{"start":321.442,"end":326.264,"text":"的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬"},{"start":350.991,"end":377.052,"text":"當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬"},{"start":378.433,"end":406.855,"text":"所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有五百到六百萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源"},{"start":408.562,"end":436.3,"text":"說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠"},{"start":436.86,"end":455.589,"text":"那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在"},{"start":456.67,"end":463.134,"text":"當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好"},{"start":484.085,"end":503.7,"text":"現在已經開始鋪鐘了嗎?沒有吧?沒有沒有沒有,現在還在還在研議中因為那個簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論"},{"start":507.803,"end":526.202,"text":"好,以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓"},{"start":527.823,"end":553.343,"text":"現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了"},{"start":554.404,"end":580.675,"text":"三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市4小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在那個機場"},{"start":582.176,"end":598.49,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":598.49,"end":614.462,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":614.762,"end":614.782,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":629.873,"end":649.466,"text":"一步一步向前走,這個院長你要幫忙一下雖然看守內閣但是今天總質詢我要再拜託你一件事這個事情下一段該怎麼推動因為一定有很多困難交通部要去推這個事情不管是外交部、領事務局甚至移民署這個部分我要拜託"},{"start":650.959,"end":678.457,"text":"委員長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些"},{"start":679.127,"end":679.247,"text":"好的"},{"start":687.603,"end":710.855,"text":"這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計"},{"start":712.136,"end":712.376,"text":"主席"},{"start":742.236,"end":763.646,"text":"因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列。"},{"start":765.011,"end":782.398,"text":"普通、試煉那經費原本的大約90億現在變成60億那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這60億要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點"},{"start":784.78,"end":809.116,"text":"我想這個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調那這件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的"},{"start":814.76,"end":843.382,"text":"希望他們也能夠提出計畫。政策只是盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天"},{"start":844.182,"end":844.603,"text":"指打車﹚"},{"start":855.984,"end":882.296,"text":"我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北齁那"},{"start":884.161,"end":900.443,"text":"所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對 這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出"},{"start":902.383,"end":925.931,"text":"普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。"},{"start":926.531,"end":944.568,"text":"其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場"},{"start":946.509,"end":966.234,"text":"主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的那可是南向思考"},{"start":967.054,"end":980.281,"text":"我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站"},{"start":988.005,"end":1015.312,"text":"難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能"},{"start":1016.532,"end":1028.419,"text":"普通車所以在南向的思考當中立火車站在你們預估嗎可能在兩年三年正式通車了這些從南向做火車"},{"start":1030.094,"end":1047.071,"text":"台鐵來的不管是國人或者外國的旅客他不是從台北市進站他從中壢火車站進站但他唯一搭的就是可能就只有普通車所以我要特別拜託那到高鐵"},{"start":1047.892,"end":1067.483,"text":"﹗"},{"start":1067.683,"end":1082.217,"text":"但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況"},{"start":1084.557,"end":1096.184,"text":"就是我南端從清普到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟清普地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8"},{"start":1103.727,"end":1129.009,"text":"進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。"},{"start":1130.891,"end":1153.933,"text":"所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧"},{"start":1155.574,"end":1180.049,"text":"我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據"},{"start":1182.35,"end":1202.748,"text":"做的是從哪裏進站的?親埔地區A17是親埔有三站親埔地區有中壢和親埔跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從親埔去的話對親埔到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?"},{"start":1203.328,"end":1207.813,"text":"我只提供一個意見你們可以掉一整年的好不好但是拜託普通車不要零趴他也承載了國家責任這是我今天"},{"start":1222.529,"end":1223.41,"text":"接下來要請教一個重大的問題"},{"start":1248.035,"end":1271.584,"text":"因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程"},{"start":1276.223,"end":1293.552,"text":"公程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。民眾人在問我,完工日期"},{"start":1295.322,"end":1316.833,"text":"還是這三站桃園內地中壢118年4月其他的是119年7月他這個部分還是這樣嗎因為你2月29號我跟邱樂華兩位交通委員跟你們開會你提供我的資料還是這個日期還是嗎確定嗎要不要校正一下應該各加三年"},{"start":1318.018,"end":1330.136,"text":"各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資。第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面。所以應該各加三年。再加三年?各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。"},{"start":1333.449,"end":1359.93,"text":"但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待"},{"start":1360.49,"end":1360.51,"text":"臨時訪問委員"},{"start":1378.371,"end":1389.137,"text":"的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的"},{"start":1392.073,"end":1415.159,"text":"桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛"},{"start":1416.179,"end":1439.049,"text":"兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見了就比如說"},{"start":1440.43,"end":1452.106,"text":"一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點有桃園戰現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言"},{"start":1455.387,"end":1479.681,"text":"1.2公里那個比較嚴重耶因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題"},{"start":1482.489,"end":1508.249,"text":"我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。"},{"start":1509.039,"end":1530.901,"text":"沒錢的原因呢?我們只有一千零四十八億吧?報告院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了二十一用地費框六十六億然後臨時站臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來"},{"start":1531.442,"end":1532.583,"text":"平政要重新提一個修正計劃。"},{"start":1553.66,"end":1580.598,"text":"他現在要把內力站、桃園站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個"},{"start":1581.926,"end":1602.271,"text":"原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上,那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分,我們初估會增加700億。"},{"start":1603.831,"end":1604.732,"text":"施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫。"},{"start":1618.806,"end":1647.151,"text":"所以增加700億,好,因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦,所以你說真的700億,我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚,這種東西不要微調,也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多,但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字,因為我問鐵道局局長啊,他死不講耶,他沒有吃那個老實素的藥,所以他死不講,他說可能一毛沒增加,哇靠。"},{"start":1648.512,"end":1677.131,"text":"但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案"},{"start":1678.151,"end":1687.097,"text":"因為他還要環差分析嘛。他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量能夠分工分別來做一個處理可以嗎?"},{"start":1687.987,"end":1699.997,"text":"你意思是說分斷通車的意思是嗎?分斷嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。喔工程喔,我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。"},{"start":1708.052,"end":1728.351,"text":"一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,"},{"start":1729.111,"end":1733.354,"text":"拜託這三個公職都要很久,一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑,讓他們先發報,憑證要經過這個"},{"start":1751.143,"end":1752.824,"text":"楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?"},{"start":1767.984,"end":1790.176,"text":"拜託這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙謝謝非常謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150299","u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- 17:18:17","影片長度":"00:15:21","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":921,"end_time":"2024-03-22T17:18:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T17:02:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":938,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（17時2分）謝謝院長，請陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：賴委員午安。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長好。院長，其實明天也是香港重要的一天，香港離臺灣很近，但是香港這一段時間以來的變化其實臺灣高度關注，最近看到香港基本法23條快速地去做修訂，他們已經實施了，我個人其實認為這對香港來說是自由人權上面很沉重的一天。"],["陳院長建仁：對，確實。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長怎麼看待？"],["陳院長建仁：我其實對香港一直寄予厚望，因為香港算是在亞洲地區很早自由民主法治的一個城市，可是越來越背離了這個道路，我也為香港人民感到痛心，一個城市如果沒有從自由民主法治、尊重人權的角度來發展的時候，經濟是沒有辦法進步的，在沒有很好的民主自由的情況下，大概大部分國家的經濟自由都沒有很好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以你從臺灣跟香港的股市來看，兩個是交錯而過的。"],["陳院長建仁：確實是這樣。"],["賴委員瑞隆：外資是不斷地在撤離香港，香港從過去的東方明珠這樣一個自由經濟的體制，然後現在開始往下在走，我覺得這個都值得全世界、所有的臺灣人高度關注，也應該給予他們更多的支持。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這次的修正裡面其實有很多的包括它對於煽動的意圖、包括對於危害國安，甚至於境外的干預，這個都是很抽象的一些概念，過去我們看過中國一個專制的體制……"],["陳院長建仁：很容易觸法、很容易被罰。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，就是說如果這是在一個民主國家，當然這些可能大家比較明確一點，因為這都要很明確的，但是在香港現在是一國兩制下的時候，中國這樣的處理方式，過去我們看到，不管是從李明哲或者是富察等等案件，以黨來決定的時候，甚至司法都是由黨來決定的時候，其實你怎麼犯了它的罪？怎麼去定他的罪？你恐怕都很難有太多從司法找回正義的一個機會，所以香港這樣的狀況其實會讓大家非常擔憂。院長，如果在這樣的狀況下，現在很多的訴求，所謂的一個中國、所謂一國兩制，所謂九二共識的部分，這個還值得臺灣人民相信嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我希望臺灣人民一定要提高警覺，而且要以香港為戒，我們知道如果臺灣沒有自由民主法治，臺灣的經濟發展也一定會像香港一樣的衰弱，所以我希望我們全民，特別是2,300萬人民都能夠珍惜我們的自由民主，大家團結一致來抵抗任何威權、獨裁這樣的一個制度進入這個地區，我們當然更希望威權、獨裁的國家也能夠學習臺灣，未來變成一個自由民主法治，而且尊重人權的國家，這樣這個區域才會越來越穩定、越和平、越繁榮。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我們期盼的不只是香港，我們期待中國大陸其實也應該往自由民主這樣的路線來前進。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這個對於整個人權、對於整個長遠的發展、對人民的福祉都是一個穩定的結構，我認為其實應該都要朝這個方向，但是我認為內部也更應該團結一致對外。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有錯。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對於威權專制這樣的一個體制，其實它有很多一些意圖的時候，內部應該更團結，朝野應該更團結來一致對外，我認為才會讓世界各國看到，讓中共看到臺灣在這一塊的覺醒。"],["陳院長建仁：確實。"],["賴委員瑞隆：另外，我想請教一下，其實臺灣每年還是有相當多人去香港，我今天早上也聽到，包括交通部長也有在提醒去香港必須要很謹慎小心。"],["陳院長建仁：要小心。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長有沒有什麼樣的呼籲？對於香港基本法23條從明天開始實施，臺灣人民未來如果要到香港去的話，有沒有什麼要特別要注意的？"],["陳院長建仁：我想因為臺灣人民也滿多人要到香港，香港基本法23條明天要實施，所以我在這裡呼籲臺灣人民要去香港的時候，務必要特別注意自己的安全，一定要確認了以後才去香港，我想這件事情大家一定要特別小心。"],["賴委員瑞隆：要非常謹慎小心，你在臺灣可以講的言論、各方面的作為可能到香港不見得可以，以前的香港可能還可以，但是當中共已經用一國兩制去治理它的時候，當通過這些相關的國安法，基本法又這樣修了之後，它已經產生很多不確定性。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以國人到香港去務必要很謹慎小心，萬一有發生狀況，我還是希望政府要密切地注意，應該要全力來做協助。"],["陳院長建仁：對，當然。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好，再回到今天交通這個主題。高雄在10年前有邀請小鴨來展出，其實香港10年前也有，都很成功。"],["陳院長建仁：對，高雄越來越好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：10年後香港也展出了2隻，高雄也再展出了2隻，都是一個很成功的展出，對於高雄來說，這10年來，其實也不只10年，透過很長遠地努力，其實創造很多的效益，當然10年前我在擔任新聞局長的時候就在推這件事情，其實有很大的效益。10年後高雄市政府、其邁市長更大力地推動，效益持續擴大，這個也是中央、地方大家共同合作的結果。我想講的是，希望未來包括院長跟部長都能夠繼續支持高雄這些產業的發展，當大家同心來推動的時候，其實對於高雄的這個產業、高雄的這個結構就會有很大的改變，它不再只是個工業城市，人口不再是只能夠往北部來移動，而是在高雄會有很多好的機會發生，這個是不是也請院長簡單地說明一下？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我想在陳其邁市長還有多位委員的促成之下，高雄的觀光確實做得很棒，而且現在好多人……"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長有去看過小鴨的展出嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我沒有去看過小鴨，不過我很多的朋友還有年輕朋友都會到高雄去看音樂會等等，高雄確實是已經不一樣了，脫胎換骨，跟我小時候的高雄完全不一樣，所以我現在是以高雄為榮！"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為院長是高雄人，然後部長也長期在高雄服務，都共同為高雄人付出很多，我想高雄的努力需要大家共同支持。接下來我想講的是高雄機場的部分，其實去年在這個場地上面，半年前也跟院長、部長談過了，就是高雄國際機場的航班、航點恢復得太慢。半年前的時候有跟院長、部長請求能夠在年底前達到八成的目標，當時部長是跟我說這個會努力來做，但是到了今年的上半年，到目前為止，都還只有73%左右而已。事實上，相較於桃園的部分，我們看一下桃園的航點已經恢復了71%，航班恢復了90%；而高雄是68%跟72%。我想要請院長跟部長能不能大力支持，在今年上半年把航班、航點全數恢復好嗎？"],["王部長國材：目前新加坡跟沖繩已經恢復了，接下來我們就是日本的札幌跟熊本，尤其熊本是高雄市政府……"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長，上半年能不能全數恢復？"],["王部長國材：我們努力，看起來會有一點問題，但是儘量，比如說朝九成來……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望院長、部長全力來支持，這個對於南部的發展很重要，不要讓很多南部的鄉親還要到桃園去才能夠做很多的……交通的便利其實對一個區域的發展非常重要，不管是商務或觀光客都非常重要，我希望這塊能夠……","原先高雄就已經比桃園相對辛苦一些了，如果在恢復速度又比桃園來得更慢的時候就會更辛苦，這個需要政府更大的魄力跟決心去協助，好不好？院長，可不可以全力來支持好嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我們一起來努力，我想繼續發展高雄的好的觀光……"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，讓南部的鄉親有更便利的商務和觀光等等，好不好？這對南部的發展很重要，對南北的平衡也很重要。","再來，把握時間。也謝謝院長大力支持前鎮漁港這個80億，歷任院長的大力支持，我們看到日本的豐洲市場其實有軌道建設，不管從原先的築地到豐洲，坐捷運就可以到達這些重要的漁市場；同樣的前鎮漁港在歷任院長的支持之下，也花了80億來做全面的一些整治啦！它其中還有另外一個重要因素是交通上必須要更加的便利，現在捷運的黃線已經開始在進行，也謝謝整個行政院的大力支持，到了前鎮高中站這邊，其實再接兩站就可以進到了前鎮漁港，可行性評估期中報告去年已經出來了，那可行性評估在今年上半年應該會出來，也希望院長和部長繼續來支持前鎮漁港、支持捷運黃線延伸到前鎮漁港，比照日本的豐洲築地有很便利的交通發展，讓整個漁港的建設更加速來發展。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們希望高雄市政府趕快提出可行性的評估報告。"],["賴委員瑞隆：出來之後的話，院長跟部長……"],["陳院長建仁：我們會加速審查。"],["賴委員瑞隆：全力支持啦！"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我覺得從很多的重大建設都是百年建設來看，其實現在如果做了一些決定就會可惜，就像當年高鐵如果有從左營到高雄車站的話，那相信對南高雄的發展更便利，臺北就可以有三站了，高雄當年如果更有遠見去做決策，當然那是前朝的時代做的，我們就不便……但是我是說國家重大建設要更有前瞻性，不要未來30年、50年後來發現說當年這個決策如果做的話，恐怕會有完全的不一樣的發展，我們希望國家重大建設是要中央大力來推動，我們也希望更有遠見、更有格局的來思考，好不好？請院長、部長再大力支持。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["王部長國材：是，它6月會提出來。"],["賴委員瑞隆：出來之後我們也希望這個地下黃線延伸前鎮漁港，請部長、院長大力來支持。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好，謝謝。","再來，另外一個也是重要的建設，旗津其實非常多外國人，包括國人也都很喜歡去旅遊，過去它其實是半島，不是離島，但是因為開高雄港的關係，把它截斷之後，它變成是一個離島了，現在我們是靠第一條的過港隧道在延伸，那個年限已經接近了，我們有做了一些延壽的工程。但是第二條過港隧道也應該要儘速來做啟動，因為第一條年限已經快到，我們延壽了，那第二條可行性也是已經規劃出來，我也希望這一條未來第二過港隧道能夠規劃，讓旗津……","常常很多人講說它像新加坡的聖淘沙一樣，但是聖淘沙也是有很便利的軌道運輸，那如果我們更有格局跟遠見協助，不只是第二過港隧道過去，同時間規劃未來比如說輕軌等等能夠進去的話，它對當地的綠碳、當地的觀光發展都有相當大的幫助。它是一個非常有潛力的地方，它是高雄最早發展的地方，有最早的媽祖廟、有古老的宗教、砲臺等等，所以它其實是非常具有潛力的地方，我也希望院長、部長能夠大力支持，可行性評估過了之後，也能夠來支持這樣的第二過港隧道建設，院長，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：可以，我想就把這個可行性研究趕快完成，很重要。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為它現在出來大概是兩個路廊，一個是從擴建路，一個是從漁港路經過，也希望到時候如果出來，院長能夠大力來支持好嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝。"],["王部長國材：它延壽到138年，就是現在舊的要用到138年，所以它動工我們初步評估是10年到15年前開始動工，往前推……"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，我知道，就是說它其實第一條是有經過延壽，延長壽命一段時間了……"],["王部長國材：對，138。"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是延長了之後它就靠這一條而已……"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳院長建仁：不夠。"],["賴委員瑞隆：總是年限到了再延壽那種事情，其實大家還有一些些擔憂，而我講的是政府還是儘早啟動……"],["王部長國材：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：同時間你也將大眾運輸規劃進去的話，對未來把整個旗津觀光的能量推動出來是有相當大的助益，我覺得也是希望能夠……在高雄，其實旗津是一個觀光上一個大的亮點，高雄港灣旗津這個地點是非常有特色，當我們的高雄港往南邊延的時候，我們的貨櫃持續在推展，我們也希望原來的一港區的這個地方，配合旗津整個長遠發展，讓更多的觀光、休憩的產業能發展，這個對於未來持續的把人才留在高雄，也是一個重要的過程。"],["王部長國材：它在138年的前10年跟15年就要開始興建了，要抓準這個時間。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我知道，不過都希望能夠提早，好不好？"],["王部長國材：現在的程序就要開始走，現在已經在走。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望都要能夠提早啦，很多事情都是要提早。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我還是要講，第一過港隧道的年限其實已經快要到，是我們延壽把它延長了，但是我講的是當地的居民都還是會擔憂，另一方面我也希望大眾運輸的思考能夠儘快的進去，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這對於旗津的發展，你可以想像嗎？萬一有任何一些狀況的時候，旗津幾乎就形成一個孤島，沒辦法出來，他要出來還要靠著坐渡輪才能出來的，所以我的意思是當時是開高雄港才形成這樣一個狀況，我希望政府能夠更給予支持。"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝。再來其實也是旗津的部分，剛剛講到旗津每年有超過600萬人次在這個地方，甚至很多外國人也喜歡。之前也跟部長提過，當它具有這麼多的一些觀光的潛力跟特質的時候，我們能不能給予它更多支持？我希望能夠思考旗津國家風景區這樣的概念。大家都用腳走路，當那麼多外國人、觀光客都會喜歡到旗津的時候，我希望思考我們國家的力道跟資源有沒有進去。就算你不能夠成立的話，也可以把周邊的納進來，讓更多政府中央的能量、行銷的能量、推動能量能夠進來，讓旗津整個發展速度能夠更快一點，這個院長跟部長能夠支持嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我想這一個部分，我們還是就像剛才的一樣，高雄市政府來評估看看它的情況，因為……"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長，現在是高雄市政府在負責，我只希望交通部觀光署的力道能夠進來協助啦！"],["陳院長建仁：如果需要交通部這邊來協助幫忙的地方……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望是觀光……","最後一個，還剩下一點點時間，高雄機場的新航廈第1期原先規劃到2032年完成，而我們知道桃園第三航廈已經都要完成開始來啟用，我希望高雄的航廈能夠加快在2030年能夠來完工，好不好？"],["王部長國材：加速。"],["賴委員瑞隆：趕一下，讓南部有更好的一個發展，好嗎？院長。"],["陳院長建仁：我們全力以赴。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員瑞隆的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來向院會報告，登記第21號郭國文委員、第22號黃捷委員、第23號楊曜委員、第24號王美惠委員，4位委員的質詢均以書面提出，請行政院以書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員郭國文書面質詢：","●針對本席選區善化火車站及隆田火車站改建進度一事，經多次與交通部與台鐵公司討論後，並經行政院李秘書長孟諺主持協調下，目前台南市政府傾向由交通局提案至交通部鐵道局鐵道基金，並委辦予台鐵公司進行綜合規劃評估報告。請交通部給予行政協助，協調台鐵公司於一年內提出評估報告以利後續預算編製。","●針對目前台南市政府已報送中央之相關地方停車場需求計畫，目前統計共有善化、麻豆、佳里、西港四區的計畫，請交通部於兩個禮拜內提供相關執行進度及評估書面資料給本辦公室。","●臺南捷運深綠線目前列入先期規劃，南科的發展突飛猛進，透過大眾運輸等「交通導向發展」規劃，可以讓善化脫胎換骨，但深綠線過去被列為第二期規劃，經過立委郭國文爭取，並找交通部、臺南市政府協調，才將深綠線放入先期規劃，經過好幾場協調會、座談會後市府終於完成期末報告，將送鐵道局、交通部、行政院進行核定。深綠線以單軌系統設計，根據期末報告會路過善化、新市、新化與歸仁4大地區，全線21.4公里共設置14站，以公有地、空地為優先考量，不只減少徵收爭議，也可以加速土地取得進程，且會與藍線延伸連結至高鐵站，未來從南科到沙崙高鐵站需一小時的路程，將大幅縮短至32分鐘，從南科到市區只要35分鐘、從善化火車站到南科也只需要12分鐘，幾乎所有時程都減半，初步規劃經費793億，且認定深綠線具有工程、財務、經濟可行性。請交通部於一個月內提供相關進度書面報告。"],["委員黃捷書面質詢：","台灣全國交通事故總件數，從2008年170,127件，直至2023年已大幅攀升至402,926件。死傷人數亦從229,666人，增加至542,558人。若從死亡人數來看，2008年至2023年，行人死亡人數皆在400人左右上下徘徊，無具體進展。若從年齡層死亡人數來看，兒童、少年、年輕人、成年人皆呈下降趨勢，唯有高齡者上升。台灣更背負為「行人地獄」的惡名，提升台灣交通安全刻不容緩。","聯合國2015年所提出的永續發展目標中，第11.2項提到「到2030年，向所有人提供安全、負擔得起的、易於利用、可持續的交通運輸系統，改善道路安全，特別是擴大公共交通，要特別關注處境脆弱者、婦女、兒童、殘疾人和老年人的需要。」","依照此項理念，去年底立法院亦三讀通過「道路交通安全基本法」，納入以人為本理念，並以道路交通事故2050年零死亡為目標，但更多執行的細節有待政府與民間共同規劃。","若欲全面提升交通安全，交通部、內政部國土署等相關單位應從道路工程設計及駕駛人教育上著手。","以左轉搶快為例，駕駛常因未降低車速，以及駕駛專注在直行車上疏忽行人。更不用說車輛時常以「切西瓜」的方式左轉，使得駕駛產生視覺死角，時常造成肇事傷亡。","為了避免此類事情發生，以工程設計而言，可行的方式有三：第一，行人穿越道應該要退縮、遠離路口。第二，縮短左轉專用車道路寬。第二，設置行人庇護島。第三，轉角設置路緣石、交通軟桿或護欄。簡言之，應透過工程設計能透過強迫車輛降速、提高行人能見度，進而保障行人安全。","甚至，以最基本的人行道設置而言，根據內政部國土署統計，至2020年市區道路人行道普及率僅有42%，有將近六成的市區道路沒有人行道，何談行人安全。","駕駛人教育層面亦需有全面性的改革。事實上，台灣的駕駛訓練班往往教導的是如何輕鬆地考取駕照，安全駕駛觀念，往往放個幾次影片就了事，無助於提升駕駛人安全觀念。","應該參考日本、澳洲等國的駕照制度，建立台灣分級駕照的制度。以加拿大魁北克省為例，經過至少12個月上完課程、通過筆試、路試，僅能拿到「試用駕照」（Probationary licence）。必須在接下來兩年的時間內，扣點超過4分，才能拿到正式駕照。某則就必須重新通過筆試，重新取得新的試用駕照。日本亦同樣將駕照分為三個等級，可持有的年限，會依據身體狀態和違規紀錄區分，換照時講習課程時數、換照費用、適性檢查皆有不同。在嚴格的駕照制度下，根據2021年WHO的統計，每十萬人每年的死亡率，加拿大為5.8人，日本為4.1人，台灣為12.7人，為先進國家數倍以上。","道路交通安全事涉交通部、內政部等多個主管機關，建請交通部應積極主動邀集各個中央、地方主管機關統合各方面資訊，就工程設計、駕駛人教育層面，提升道路交通安全，保障行人權益。"],["委員楊曜書面質詢：","一、針對澎湖空運量能失衡，請交通部上緊發條緊盯國內航空運能，確保澎湖民眾交通權益不受影響。","問題：秋冬航班少，班距長，早上第一班航班常常延誤，對於不分季節都一個機位難求的，本席搭飛機往返立法院時，常會遇到民眾向我反映上述問題，此外，本席辦公室時常監看各機場候補人數，時常發生航班報到率高，且機場出現大量候補人潮時，民航局無即時應變，在辦公室的被動要求下，才著手處理加開班機或放大機型等措施，本席認為這樣消極的補救方式應該徹底改變！","空運訂位系統已經資訊化、數據化，民航局可以掌握搭機總量的歷史數據、航班訂位率、訂位候補人數、重複訂位人數等資料，應該更積極的因應澎湖居民的需求，隨時提前加開航班運能，減少民怨！","澎湖居民的出入最仰賴空運，本席認為，交通部應儘速要求民航局除了運用上述大數據資料外，更要堅持以國際航權來要求國籍航空業者肩負起社會責任，承擔國內航空運輸責任。","二、馬公港旅運服務量能不足，請交通部督促港務公司提出改善方案後儘速辦理。","問題：我先前已向交通部反映，馬公港旅客大樓的容納量無法負荷旺季的旅客需求，澎湖輪停靠馬公商港沒有完善的旅運設施等問題，為此，也曾召開會議，會中港務公司已提出新增1+1的室內旅客服務中心，分流搭船人潮，增設旅客橋及電梯等方案，本席亦有提醒必須保障身心障礙者乘客上下船動線及人車分流等問題，也請交通部督促港務公司提出改善方案後儘速辦理。","三、國外旅遊市場已復甦，恐將影響國內旅遊市場，請交通部督促觀光署儘速提出因應方案。","問題：面對疫後出國潮的衝擊，去年就陸續接到許多澎湖業者擔憂的聲浪，已火熱多年的澎湖國旅面對各界預期衰退的國旅市場，要如何維持觀光熱度？因此，本席要求觀光署提出因應方案，如已推動多年的秋季活動─追風音樂節，除加強宣傳的力度，同時也要豐富追風音樂節的內涵，再者，國旅秋冬補助，提高誘因，降低門檻，才能吸引旅客秋冬到澎觀光，刺激當地消費，延長澎湖觀光旺季。"],["委員王美惠書面質詢：","案由：本院王委員美惠，鑒於公共運輸建設是城市進步的重要基礎，為周全規劃嘉義市多項重要交通建設，爰此，特向行政院及交通部提出質詢。","說明：","(一)為消除嘉義市鐵路沿線兩側地區發展阻隔，提升土地整體利用，均衡都市發展，嘉義市區正在實施，鐵路高架化工程。「嘉義市區鐵路高架化計畫」原核定經費為238.98億元，本計畫執行期間因營建物價波動、新冠疫情影響等因素造成原經費已不足夠，辦理修正計畫修正經費為334.25億元，較原核定經費增加約95.27億元。因增加費用之因素非地方政府所能控制，又嘉義市政府財力級次自112年起由第三級調降為第四級，請行政院研議將增加之95億元，全額補助嘉義市政府，以降低地方財政負擔。另嘉義市鐵路高架原訂完工時間為115年9月，現工程延宕，請相關單位檢討工程進度，並重新評估完工期程，並督導工程加速完工，以減低施工對居民造成之不便。","(二)有關嘉義交通軌道建設，從2020年起爭取嘉義地區軌道整體路網評估，歷經3年時間現已完成整體路網評估，如今捷運藍線系統為嘉義市捷運系統第1條優先路網，現台積電設廠嘉義，交通載運的需求不斷增加，完善交通系統更為重要，請中央協助嘉義市輕軌相關規劃，並請說明嘉義市輕軌建設後續之程序及期程。","綜上所述，為使嘉義市交通建設更便利，促進都市均衡發展，並請行政院及交通部於一個月內提出書面回覆。"],["主席：接下來請登記第25號魯明哲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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text":"如果來了,因為他現在出來大概是兩個路廊,一個是重擴建路,一個是漁港路經過。那也希望院長到處所出來的時候,院長能夠大力來支持,好嗎?好。他延壽到138年,就是現在舊的要用到138年。所以他動工我們出屋平庫是10年到15年前開始動工。對我知道,就是說他其實第一條是有經過延壽啦,延長壽命一段時間。但是延長了之後他就靠這一條而已。"},{"start":742.771,"end":742.791,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":767.04,"end":768.822,"text":"這個對於高雄未來的持續的把人才留在高雄也是一個重要的一個過程。"},{"start":785.421,"end":805.455,"text":"就是他大概138年前10年跟15年就要開始興建了,這個時間要抓準抓準這個時間。我知道,不過都是要希望能夠提早好不好。現在的程序就要開始走。我希望都能夠提早啦,很多事情都是要提早,我還是要講第一過港隧道的年限其實已經快要到,是我們延壽他的延長了,但是我講的是"},{"start":806.776,"end":827.987,"text":"當地的大家都還是會擔憂,另一方面我也希望大眾運輸的思考能夠盡快的進去,好不好?這對於旗津的發展,你可以想像嗎?幾乎萬一有任何一些狀況的時候,旗津就形成是一個孤島,沒辦法出來。它要出來還要靠著做這個渡輪才要出來的。所以我意思說,當時是開高雄港才形成這樣的一個狀況嘛,我希望政府能夠更給予支持。"},{"start":829.138,"end":831.919,"text":"我希望能夠思考迄今國家風景這樣的概念"},{"start":855.56,"end":875.205,"text":"但是用腳走路啦,當那麼多外國人、當那麼多觀光客都會喜歡到奇晶的時候而我們國家的力道跟資源有沒有進去,我希望思考就算你不能夠成立的話也可以把周邊的納進來,讓更多政府中央的能量、行銷的能量、推動能量能夠進來,讓奇晶整個發展速度能夠更快一點,這個院長跟部長能夠支持嗎?"},{"start":876.585,"end":904.534,"text":"我想這一個部分我們還是就像剛才的一樣看高雄市政府來評估看看他的情況因為有...院長現在是高雄市政府負責我只希望交通部公安局主的力道能夠進來來協助對,如果需要交通局這邊來協助幫忙的地方我希望這個...那最後一個還剩下一點點時間的時候高雄的新航廈機場的新航廈第一期大概到這個原先規劃到"},{"start":905.674,"end":921.937,"text":"﹗"}]}},{"id":"150298","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150298","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e70636fb73d34a9f2fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a624ff07b61bb39dc15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"16:47:08 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17:02:42","影片長度":"00:15:34","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":934,"end_time":"2024-03-22T17:02:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T16:47:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":830,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（16時47分）主席、韓院長、在座列席的出列席官員、各位媒體記者先生、小姐，大家好。主席，麻煩請陳院長。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：羅委員你好。"],["羅委員明才：陳院長好。在立法院質詢的時間，這一次是不是最後一次見面？"],["陳院長建仁：對，應該是。"],["羅委員明才：好像每個從政為官者都希望多做一點事，特別是對臺灣、對中華民國好的事，我們看到疫情結束後，海外有很多國家包括新加坡、日本、泰國等等，他們的觀光人潮是一波接一波，感覺整個觀光、整個景氣都復甦、都動起來了，臺灣現在的觀光客不如5年前、不如10年前……"],["陳院長建仁：5年前……"],["羅委員明才：觀光客考量的問題大概有兩點，第一點就是地緣政治的問題，他們說到臺灣來會覺得很害怕，會不會隨時有戰爭，如果沒有戰爭，為什麼一天到晚在兵推？所以本席在這裡要請教陳院長，現在臺灣會不會推動獨立，會不會再次推動所謂的臺灣獨立公投？"],["陳院長建仁：委員剛才講的觀光，我要跟委員報告，去年我們訂的觀光目標是600萬人，已經圓滿達成，今年我們會把這個目標訂在疫前的情況，到現在為止，實際上從東南亞、東北亞甚至港澳來的人數其實不少，所以並沒有你所講的兵凶戰危導致觀光人數減少，如果您有到臺北市還有全國去看的話，其實觀光沒有少。但確實如你講的，大家都會擔心臺灣的安全，我想你剛才問的一個好問題，我們現在政府的政策就是希望能夠維持現狀，我們也不希望任何的威權國家單方面破壞現狀的狀況，這樣單方面的破壞實際上使得臺海不穩定、甚至影響了世界的繁榮跟和平，所以我們希望這一些威權獨裁國家不要再窮兵黷武，然後讓地區能夠穩定。有關區域穩定的這個問題，實際上很多與我們理念相同的自由民主國家都有同樣的盼望，所以大家都努力，希望不要有片面破壞現狀的狀況。"],["羅委員明才：所以院長現階段會放棄臺獨的推動？"],["陳院長建仁：我們現在的努力就是維持現狀。"],["羅委員明才：所以就不搞臺獨了？"],["陳院長建仁：我想臺灣本身就已經是一個主權獨立的國家。"],["羅委員明才：所以就不會再碰所謂的臺獨公投？"],["陳院長建仁：剛才我已經回答得很清楚，臺灣是一個主權獨立的國家，而且是一個自由民主法治的前線國家，然後我們自由民主法治的發展、還有人權的保障在東亞可以作為其他威權國家的典範。"],["羅委員明才：我們現在希望維持和平、安定的現狀，其實不僅是國內的多數認同，甚至很多海外旅客也希望來臺灣度假是一種輕鬆愉快的事情。"],["陳院長建仁：確實，而且很多人來。"],["羅委員明才：所以希望能多多做宣導，這個很重要。","剛剛本席講到第二個重要的因素，臺灣過去讓人家印象最深刻的就是night market，院長，你有沒有去過寧夏夜市？"],["陳院長建仁：很早以前，現在沒有空。"],["羅委員明才：我好喜歡臺灣的夜市，很多的外國朋友說：哇，臺灣unique，好棒的地方喔！最重要的是臺灣人熱情；第二個，食材、美食好多喔；最重要一點是便宜！但是院長，曾幾何時呀，糟糕！現在一碗滷肉飯要多少錢？"],["陳院長建仁：我很少吃滷肉飯，很抱歉。"],["羅委員明才：一碗現在漲到六十幾塊啦，我的天呀！更不要說是炸雞、或者是臺灣知名的珍珠奶茶。我們現在都很害怕、擔心，過去我們覺得很驕傲，帶人去夜市走一走，口袋裡有一、兩千塊就能吃飽又滿足又高興；但是現在大家「剉咧等」！有人說：委員，怎麼辦？聽說電價要飆漲啦！院長，電價一飆漲，漲個10%、11%就萬物齊漲，老百姓受不了啊！"],["陳院長建仁：我不同意這種講法。"],["羅委員明才：所以我前幾天在財委會提了一個案就是紅標米酒暫時凍漲，我覺得財政部部長也從善如流、所有的委員都支持，就決定凍漲！所以本席在這裡請教院長，可不可以考量多數民眾生活不容易，就如同過去的韓市長、現在的韓院長所說：莫忘世上苦人多！其實這句話我每一次質詢都放在心裡，臺灣百工百業現在是非常的辛苦，人民都是嗷嗷待哺。","所以本席建議院長第一個要做的，就是今年每個人的紅包1萬塊不要縮水，拜託、拜託！去年大家領到6,000塊有點感謝……"],["陳院長建仁：不可能！"],["羅委員明才：今年每個人發1萬塊聊表心意，雖然是杯水車薪，因為電價10%一漲下去了以後，哇，全民苦哈哈！"],["陳院長建仁：委員，你這樣是亂開支票，每人1萬塊要2,350億，而去年的歲入歲出盈餘在今年來算是2,670億，有5%要還債，剩下來只有1,500億，所以你講1萬塊，那個是空口說白話、是完全不可行的事情啦！而且政府更重要的是，這一些剩下來的錢就來補貼電價啊，所以我們給台電啊！你不是說電價不能漲，漲了以後物價會上漲，那為什麼不來補貼電價呢？再來，勞保不足，我們為什麼不補貼勞保呢？這樣照顧的人更多，所以政府在行政的時候，不會隨隨便便說要花多少錢，這是不負責任的作法。"],["羅委員明才：所以院長現在是怕錢不夠，是不是？我們在……"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！歲入歲出的盈餘今年大概2,670億左右……"],["羅委員明才：我在財委會二、三十年了，你如果缺錢你來找我，我報幾項好的給你聞香，我手上的一堆資料，有人檢舉他們自己家裡海外起碼有1兆遺贈稅，換言之，這個查下去國庫馬上可以多出五千多億，你如果有興趣的話、缺錢的話你來找我，我為全民來找錢，我還是希望每一個人可以儘量發1萬塊的紅包……"],["陳院長建仁：不實際、不切實際……"],["羅委員明才：但因為時間的關係，如果有需要的話，我絕對不會藏私，我把我三十幾年的經驗，包括國有地、閒置地都可以充分拿來利用，把這些最辛苦的民眾放在我們的心頭上，我們能做多少，來為他們來排憂解難……"],["陳院長建仁：說的比做的容易啦！"],["羅委員明才：但因為今天是交通……"],["陳院長建仁：說話容易……"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。院長，因為今天是交通，本席是地方出身，我還是為地方來請命，第一個，捷運延伸至深坑、延伸至石碇，地方已經喊了十幾年了，包括蘇貞昌蘇院長以前當老縣長的時候，沒有人反對，到現在還是遙遙無期，要拜託陳院長是不是給一點關懷的力道，讓它速度快一點。"],["陳院長建仁：委員你很清楚嘛！捷運的推動是地方政府的事情，所以捷運有任何像是深坑輕軌要推動的話，新北市就要做可行性研究，新北市政府現在正在辦可行性的研究，可行性研究以後可行的話，我們就會進入綜合規劃，然後進入以後這一些步驟，所以這一個部分我們也樂觀其成說新北市有在做可行性研究啦！"],["羅委員明才：院長會支持嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我還沒講完，這個研究的情形它是在112年5月1號提給交通部，提給交通部以後交通部也已經報到行政院來，還有一些意見需要新北市政府來做修正，所以我們現在也在等新北市政府來提出這一些修正的報告，所以新北市政府快一點，我們就可以快一點，所以這件事情也請委員多多敦促一下新北市政府。"],["羅委員明才：好的，謝謝院長。剛好這一次會期我是財委會的召委，我馬上用最快的時間來召集各部會召開一個協調會也好，或者是合作的會議也好，就從早上開始開會，沒有結論出來我們就不下班，一次到位、一次完成，院長覺得可不可以這樣做？"],["陳院長建仁：開會是要講深坑輕軌的事情嗎？"],["羅委員明才：是。"],["陳院長建仁：深坑輕軌的事情是新北市政府……"],["羅委員明才：中央跟地方到底問題出在哪裡，如果說是缺錢，那就找錢的問題嘛？我來想辦法，我來拜託行政院一起努力來找錢，如果是什麼原因……"],["陳院長建仁：委員你就催促一下新北市政府趕快交修正報告。"],["羅委員明才：我就兩邊一起召集會議來催促……"],["陳院長建仁：但希望新北市政府願意出席啦！"],["羅委員明才：另外一個是捷運環狀線南環段的部分，現在開始動工了，但是物價飆漲，好多都是流標、流標，不曉得這個速度可不可以快一點？"],["王部長國材：臺北市政府現在因為經費不足，它最近有提一個計畫就是北環、南環加起來，還有包括其他總共要增加七百多億的預算，目前我們就循審議原則視可不可以歸責於地方，比如說營建物價的上漲不可以歸責，這大環境的問題，但是如果他們在設計上、原來在過程中就有疏忽的，這就要他們負責，現在我們正在做這樣的評估。"],["羅委員明才：所以部長你看看，這些本來就應該做的事情，如果早做的話就不用花那麼多錢。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["羅委員明才：所以我們還是希望該做的、必須要做的，與其晚做不如早做，早做一點會比較好。比如捷運汐東線，因為以前是大選區，汐止也是我的選區，同樣一個時間，20年喊了半天，我們安坑線在這邊要謝謝相關人員、謝謝部長，安坑輕軌在去年就完工通車了，結果到現在，喊了20年的捷運汐東線現在還是遙遙無期……"],["王部長國材：現在……"],["羅委員明才：我看了覺得好難過，我心裡真的是為汐止人覺得很痛心，同樣一個時間人家都好了，安坑輕軌都好了，結果汐止卻還沒好……"],["王部長國材：這個就是……"],["羅委員明才：真的大家要多加油啦！另外一個就是有關新店安坑地區的安城快速道路以及華城快速道路，這個路就是差一小段，安城快速道路因為當地有很多的居民，幾萬，再加上很多的學校，上下班堵車堵得很厲害，小小一段5公里，可是打通了以後卻讓整個地方的交通更快速、更便捷。所以在這裡也要拜託陳院長可以多多予以關心，經費不多，30億。"],["陳院長建仁：我很關心，但是新北市政府的關心更重要，這個計畫是新北市政府要來推動，新北市政府如果不努力推動、不提出計畫，我們沒有辦法補助，所以請委員還是再催促一下新北市政府加油！加油！加油！好不好？"],["羅委員明才：那我就來再召開一次不斷電的24小時開會，把這件事情具體的落實。另外一個是央北環快跟國道高架段的問題，因為都市計畫的發展，央北十四張未來會多2萬戶，交通勢必會造成很大的困境，所以要未雨綢繆，拜託這個部分也開始著手動起來、開始思考。","因為時間的關係，我可能有一部分會改成書面，但是我最後要問一下，請問院長攸關全民的電價問題，已經決定要漲了嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：今天審議委員會通過，有決議的時候我們經濟部部長會跟大家說明。"],["羅委員明才：公車不要漲、鐵路不要漲，拜託、拜託，民眾會受不了。"],["陳院長建仁：我們尊重專業，尊重專業的決定。"],["委員羅明才書面質詢：","一、捷運延伸至深坑石碇","新北市府喊了12年的深坑輕軌捷運在歷經11次可行性研究報告送審後，終於在2022年12月8日獲交通部審查修正後通過「深坑線輕軌運輸系統暨周邊土地開發可行性研究報告書」，爾後交通部並函覆審查意見有系統選擇（車輛、機電與號誌）、公共運輸相關配套措施等。後續將依審查意見修正，盡速提送交通部同意，轉行政院審議、爭取核定。新北市捷運局指出，全案經費117億，將力拚2030年完工。","目前規劃S4站的位置為國有財產署土地，未來希望能規劃為青年宅、社會住宅，配合深坑線設站，除提升便利性之外，亦能帶動捷運運量。S5站周邊則有法務部庫房，未來隨著捷運深坑線的推動發展，希望法務部能與新北市政府討論聯合開發的可行性。如若交通部、國發會允諾，未來深坑線S5站可繼續向北延伸南港，將可服務中華科技大學、中央研究院等運輸交通需求，並與文湖線連接成環狀，增加捷運路網的服務範圍與便利性。或將深坑輕軌再延伸至石碇交流道，相信還能再帶動石碇整體的城市發展，畢竟軌道設施都已經建置了，如能發揮更大的效益，造福周邊居民，對深坑、石碇生活圈都會是樁美事。","二、捷運環狀線─南環段","捷運南環段大坪林至動物園分為2個區段標CF670（新店大坪林─政大）及CF670A（政大─動物園），其施工進度如下：CF670（新店大坪林─政大）：預算167.4億元，112年7月12日第4次流標，捷運局已召開流標檢討會議檢討調整預算，因南北環整體計畫預算不足，俟財修計畫行政院核定後再上網公告招標。CF670A（政大─動物園）：已於112年3月15日決標，並於6月13日開工，預計121年完工。","環狀線（南環段/北環段）路線長度20.66公里，原經費1369.06億元。其中南環段即將進入施工階段，自木柵動物園站沿新光路經政治大學、永安街、木柵路，再穿越景美溪南側工業區至新店線大坪林站。施工進行階段常常對周邊居民而言是苦不堪言，除了需要忍受工程噪音、空氣品質受影響之外，還有塞車帶來的交通黑暗期，民眾無不希望工程效率越快越好。其次，近期原物料高漲、缺工等影響，推升重大公共工程的營建成本，並造成公共工程流標率大幅提升。期盼行政院多給予地方經費上的支持，協助地方提高工程效率，縮短工期，就是對地方最大的幫忙。","三、捷運汐東線","汐止人等待20年的捷運汐東線終於有新進度，統包工程經費十月中獲得行政院公共工程委員會同意核定，十月下旬就上網公告招標。新北市捷運局預告，若2024年上半年順利決標，工期約86個月，拚2032年完工，串起北北基軌道路網。","被戲稱「選舉捷運」的汐止民生線，在地喊20多年仍是一條虛線，當初因台北市前市長柯文哲堅持要做全線規畫、環狀線優先等因素，雙北沒有共識而卡關。2020年北北基3市與交通部再舉行會議，新北端的汐東線與台北端民生線分割，汐東線終露曙光。","汐東捷運線總長5.56公里，起於北市內湖區蘆洲里，先東向抵達新北汐止區的社后機廠與SB11車站後，在福德一路與同興路轉彎往東南到同興路SB12站，接著通過新社后橋後抵樟樹灣的SB13站。接著從汐止大同路一段向東北，穿過北二高橋下設置SB14站，再南轉康誥坑溪東轉往新台五路，至汐止區公所設置終點站，共計6站。採LRRT中運量自動駕駛系統，每列車可乘載530人，其中樟樹灣至汐止公所將與基隆捷運共線、共站、共用社后機廠，SB14可與台鐵汐科站銜接轉乘。汐東線也將在SB10站設計約300公尺長的電動步道與文湖線東湖站轉乘。","汐東捷運總建設經費376.93億元，基隆捷運計畫分擔98.47億元，中央同意先行匡列278.46億元，新北市負擔220.5億元，中央補助57.96億元。同樣地受近期原物料高漲、缺工等影響，推升重大公共工程的營建成本，並造成公共工程流標率大幅提升。未來招標、施工上如遇到各種關卡，期盼中央多多給予地方經費上的支持，協助地方縮短施工工期，提高工程效率。","四、安城快速道路、華城快速道路","安城快速道路","依交通部高公局統計資料顯示，國道三號安坑至中和路段不論平假日皆為易壅塞路段，而此路段受地形影響，已難以進行拓寬工程。為疏導車流避開此一路段，本席建議交通部另闢「安城快速道路」，由安坑一號道路沿五城向土城清水交流道方向開通，除可作為國道三號安坑至中和路段的替代道路之外，亦可提供土城與新店安坑便捷的交通路廊，亦可提高安坑一號道路之效益。又「安城快速道路」未來恐須以隧道工程等方式進行，經費上尚須公共工程委員會、交通部或營建署等機關大力支持新北市政府。","華城快速道路","為改善新店、安坑地區交通問題，並整合北二高道路、新店溪東西兩岸環快，新北市府積極推動「安坑1號道路」，並於民國92年完成「安坑1號道路可行性研究及路線規劃」，且環境影響說明書分別已於93、96年通過，安坑1號道路第三期業於104年擇定替代路線，起點為安一路，路線橫越華城路、永業路，且行經新店區灣潭自辦市地重劃區，終點至臺9甲線（新烏路）。鑒於104年擇定替代路線至今已間隔近十年，考量路廊通過區域存在新社區開發、道路線形變化及日益增長之交通需求等因素，為減少房屋拆遷、降低生態環境衝擊、分析交通流量及檢討法規適當性等事宜，有必要於上位規劃階段重新檢視前期規劃與現狀之具體差異。預計113年5月完成檢討前期規劃，並預計114年1月完成環境差異分析。","原定安坑一號道路第3-1A標（華城快速道路），從新店華城路連接安坑交流道約5.5公里，是連結大台北華城、青山鎮等社區5千多位居民及學生的重要聯外道路。隨著通貨膨脹以及營造成本提高影響，粗估經費約需30億元，本席期望中央能優先補助新北市政府完成此路段。","另有關安坑道路第2-4期路段（安泰路至安康路三段）目前新北市政府納入都市計畫通盤檢討，後續視整體區域人口及交通需求發展情形，評估開發成本效益後，再行辦理後續作業。屆時新北市政府提交中央時，請公共工程委員會、交通部或營建署等機關大力支持。","五、央北環快、國道高架段","新店十四張B單元都市計畫案（即十四張重劃區），在中央審議長達11年之久，終於在今年五月獲內政部都市計畫委員會審議通過。對此，新北市城鄉局表示，占地面積逾34公頃的十四張重劃區，未來將配合地區發展需求，預計規劃機關、社會福利設施、學校、公園等用地，補足都市所需的公共設施，預計在明年中公告區段徵收計畫，並於2027上半年工程完工。由於十四張重劃區位處捷運環狀線南機廠周邊，將配合捷運環狀線十四張站及安坑輕軌十四張站，規劃周邊道路系統及停車場兼轉運站用地，並新設各類公設用地約19.77公頃，比例高達57%，設有包括機關用地、社會福利設施用地和學校用地等，另外，也規劃公園用地複合使用，並設置地下化的水資源中心，以及公園綠地等。","規劃中的十四張聯開案幅員逾4萬坪，不但是十四張重劃區備受矚目的投資案，更是全國最大的捷運聯開案，將納入商業、住宅和社福等項目。而與其緊鄰的新店央北重劃區也在持續發展中，移入人口正急速增加。在上下班交通尖峰時段已出現塞車情形，未來隨著周邊開發案的完成，人口大量進駐，車流壅塞恐怕更嚴重。","新店央北重劃區及甫通過十四張重劃區相比鄰，當地主要聯外道路僅有兩條，分別是環河路及中央路往來國道或台北方向。隨著十四張重劃區、十四張捷運站聯開案的發展，未來至少再成長兩萬戶人口進駐，對於未來將成長的交通需求應及早規劃。當地里長與居民已向新北市政府建議：加蓋高架快速道路，分別銜接環河快速道路台北方向與國道三號交流道，以有效舒緩當地車流。新北交通局也了解到地方的需求，目前主要是經費問題，以及是否會影響水利地、禁限建等的技術問題等，研究評估經費約需2500萬，本席希望院長以及交通部這邊體察地方需求，爭取中央能夠協助新北市政府取得相關經費，來將當地交通情況評估到最詳細。新北市府除了評估另蓋道路外，同時也會做周邊道路整體規畫，包含溪園路與環河路規畫、央北重劃區到十四張捷運站、另一條往國道的銜接道等，達到確實舒緩車流、解決交通壅塞情形。","六、兩岸議題失靈，全體國民、旅行業者揹鍋？","交通部原規劃自3月1日起，恢復台灣旅行業組團赴陸旅遊，但2月7日宣布暫緩，並請旅行業即日起停止招攬前往中國旅行團。","依陸委會提交本院內政委員會「赴陸旅遊團停招：決策過程與後續影響評估」報告指出，因中國大陸迄未就陸客旅行團來台進行安排，日前又片面宣布改變M503等航路運行方式等，考量整體情勢不利我國家利益，以及陸方「反間諜法」造成國人赴陸人身安全風險增加，卻無有效機制可予處理等因素，交通部業於今年2月7日對外宣布，原規劃自3月1日起恢復我旅行業組團赴陸旅遊的作業暫難執行。同時，考量部分旅行業者已先期作業，政府採取權宜措施，同意出發日期在3月1日至5月31日的團體仍可出團。","本席請教院長與交通部長，依照陸委會的邏輯，請問3月1日至5月31日出發的旅遊團，就沒有改變M503等航路的兩岸飛航安全風險？就沒有「反間諜法」造成國人赴陸人身安全風險？如果風險如此龐大，為何3月到5月的團體仍可成行？根本的問題是行政院與陸委會面對對岸丟出來的球沒有能力處理，也沒有管道跟對岸溝通，執政黨在兩岸議題上是失靈的狀況，無有效機制可予處理。於是交通部觀光署來揹這個黑鍋，全體國民以及旅行業者來承擔這個苦果。","陸委會的報告還指出，政府歡迎兩岸「對等」開放觀光，而非我單方面解禁，關鍵是兩岸同時做出開放，並指若對岸願釋出善意，兩岸氣氛朝向良性發展，我方不排除提早進行適當調整。本席請教院長，這是單方面等待對岸釋出善意嗎？行政院目前有任何部會可以跟對岸進行溝通來取得對岸善意的訊息？請教交通部，期望兩岸對等、同時做出開放觀光，目前交通部就開放觀光的部分，有管道和對岸進行對話溝通嗎？執政黨說中國大陸近期片面啟用M503的W122、W123等航路運行方式，片面改變現狀，導致兩岸之間飛航安全的不穩定與風險。請教交通部就航線的部分有管道和對岸進行對話並提出解決方案嗎？兩岸政治問題，透過禁止商業行為，可以解決問題嗎？","至於在2月7日交通部公告前即以招攬6月後之旅行團，由於是官方片面公告3月1日至5月31日成團仍可出團、6月後不准出團，基於信賴保護原則，交通部觀光署應協助旅行業者協調原訂行程6月後之旅行團，以保障旅行業者與旅客消費權益。","2月14日，2名大陸民眾在台灣海岸巡防隊於金門水域的追捕行動中落水身亡後，引發兩岸高度關注及唇槍舌戰，媒體稱為214金門事件。「金門事件」剛滿月又發生有大陸漁船翻覆，並在金門東碇島西南方1.07浬處沉沒。英國媒體BBC在金門事件後即曾示警，國際各界關注北京是否會藉此事件，順水推舟開始否定兩岸以「默契」行之多年的金門水域劃界？日後中國海警船甚至軍艦穿越進入金門「限制及禁止水域」會否成為常態化？或是演變成大陸捕撈船、抽砂船頻繁進入，可能會與金門民眾的捕魚工作場域重疊，影響金門漁民的漁獲及生計。或進而演變成影響兩岸小三通的情勢？為維持兩岸和平之局面，盼行政院加強恢復兩岸溝通之管道。","七、電價調漲，對公共運輸之影響？","台電至去年底虧損累計達3826億元，再加上今年預估仍會再虧損超過1800億元，以台電資本額4800億元而言，恐怕瀕臨破產。因此，經濟部這週會向行政院爭取撥補台電預算，並將於本日（22日）前召開電價審議會，決定4月電價漲幅；而撥補的金額是1000億元或1500億元，與電價漲幅有很大的關連，外界認為，基本上電價是漲定了，且只撥補1000億元的機率很大，因此預估電價漲幅約在13%左右，粗估約有1350萬戶家庭受到影響。","據報載，電價調漲將以700度作為門檻，700度以下調漲5%、701度─1000度調漲7%、1001度以上調漲10%。因此，千度以上的用電大戶對於調漲會最有感，而用電突破5億元以上的特大戶漲幅可能落在15%─30%之間。據了解，高壓與特高壓用電大戶包括工業及大型綜合零售業，將承擔最多調幅。工業用電大戶將以產業別區分漲幅，並將用電情況劃分為用電成長、用電持平或衰退不到1成、用電衰退超過1成等3類決定調幅，整體平均調幅約為12%─13%。用電特大戶則以公司規模分類，像是用電5億至25億度、25億度至50億度、50億度以上等，且用電連續2年成長，包括台積電、廣達、仁寶、台灣高鐵等企業，都將對這次調價最有感。","本席請教院長，撥補台電預算金額是否已經定案？本日（22日）召開電價審議會，電價調幅是否已經確定？依行政院公報揭露，主管機關曾要求鐵路及大眾捷運系統運輸業與使用管線運輸電力用戶，申報軌道用電與管線運輸用電資料。","是以請教院長、交通部長，包含高鐵、台鐵、各城市捷運系統與電動公車路線，乃至於機場用電等運輸業者等，是否仍將受本次電價調漲影響？高鐵、台鐵是否評估過營運成本增長幅度？未來是否有轉嫁成本調漲票價的可能？以台北捷運營運成本來說，電價就佔了13%，最近這兩年電價漲幅已達到34%，對於台北捷運而言是非常沉重的負擔。基於政府是在鼓勵民眾盡量使用大眾運輸工具來達成2050淨零碳排的目標，對於高鐵、台鐵、城市捷運、電動公車等運輸用電，是否由中央撥補台電預算的部分與經濟部、台電公司協調，對於大眾運輸用電的部分漲幅不要太高？以免演變成民眾交通運輸成本的通膨。","八、新店、大文山地區停車位供不應求亟待解決","新店區人口已超過30萬人，長年因用地狹小，人口成長迅速，以致停車需求量大。鑒於新店高中已改建為地下停車場，使用率非常高，時常一位難求。本席建議可參考新店高中的前例，利用新店各國中小興建地下停車場，例如新店的大豐國小、中正國小、北新國小、安坑國小、新和國小及文山國中、五峰國中；坪林區坪林國中等，以解決民眾停車需求。故此，本席特別要請教交通部長，是否可提供新北市政府經費補助，推動改建中小學地下停車場，以解決新店、大文山地區老舊社區長年以來停車位欠缺的問題。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員明才的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第20號賴委員瑞隆質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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Market你知道嗎?"},{"start":283.683,"end":285.404,"text":"院長你有沒有去過寧夏夜市?"},{"start":289.979,"end":315.956,"text":"我很喜歡臺灣的夜市。很多外國朋友說,哇,臺灣這個Unique好棒的地方喔。那最重要的是,臺灣人熱情。第二個,食材美食,哇好多喔。最重要、最重要一點是便宜。但是院長,成績何時啊?糟糕。現在一碗滷肉飯要多少錢?"},{"start":319.676,"end":348.969,"text":"我很少吃乳酪飯。我現在氣到60幾塊啦。唉呦,我的天啊。更不要說是炸雞啦。或者是知名的台灣珍珠奶茶。我們現在都很害怕擔心就是過去我們覺得很驕傲啊。來我來來我帶你走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走"},{"start":350.117,"end":372.109,"text":"委員啊,怎麼辦啊?聽說電價要飆漲了。院長啊,電價一飆漲啊,漲個10%、11%,萬物起漲,老百姓受不了啊。所以我在前幾天啊,財委會我提了一個案,就是紅標米酒啊,是暫時凍漲。"},{"start":375.06,"end":402.743,"text":"我覺得財政部部長也從善如流所有的委員都支持就決定動場所以本席在這裡請教院長可不可以考量多數民眾這個生活不容易就如同我們的過去韓市長現在的韓院長所說的這個莫忘世上苦人多其實這句話我在每一次質詢我都放在心裡"},{"start":404.063,"end":432.362,"text":"這個世界上臺灣百工百業現在是非常的辛苦大家的人民都是嗷嗷待哺所以本席建議院長第一個要做的就是今年紅包每個人拜託拜託一萬塊不要縮水去年大家領到六千塊不可能有點感謝不可能今年每個人發一萬塊了表心意"},{"start":433.144,"end":456.955,"text":"雖然是杯水車薪啊,因為電價10%一漲下去了以後,哇,全民苦哈哈。每個一萬塊要2350億,那去年的稅入稅出營餘,今年來算是2670億,有5%要房債,所以剩下來只有1500億,所以你講一萬塊那個是空口說牌話,是完全不可行的事情啊。"},{"start":457.335,"end":457.475,"text":"﹚羅明才"},{"start":478.391,"end":501.89,"text":"在這個行政的時候呢,不會這個隨隨便便的就是說我要花多少錢。這是不負責任的做法。所以院長現在是怕錢不夠是不是?對啊,我們稅入稅出的盈餘今年大概2670億左右。在財委會二、三十年齁,你如果缺錢齁,你來找我。我報幾項給你收批判。"},{"start":503.134,"end":515.703,"text":"我手上的一堆資料有人檢舉他們自己家裡起碼海外有一兆移政稅換言之這個查下去馬上國庫可以多出五千多億"},{"start":517.23,"end":534.738,"text":"你如果有興趣的話缺錢的話你來找我我為全民來找錢我還是希望說每一個人還是可以盡量一個人可以發一萬塊的紅包那因為時間的關係如果有需要的話我絕對不會嘗試我把我30幾年的經驗"},{"start":542.97,"end":571.046,"text":"包括國有地、閒置地都可以充分拿來利用。把這些最辛苦的民眾放在我們的心頭上。我們能做多少,多多來為他們來排憂解難。因為今天是交通話題。因為今天是交通,本席是地方出身,我還是為地方來請命。第一個就是捷運延伸至深坑。"},{"start":572.106,"end":588.767,"text":"延伸至時定地方已經喊了十幾年了包括蘇貞昌蘇院長以前當老縣長的時候沒有人反對到現在還是遙遙無期要拜託陳院長是不是給一點"},{"start":590.197,"end":613.209,"text":"關懷的力道讓他速度快一點委員你很清楚這個捷運的這樣的一個推動是地方政府的事情所以呢捷運有任何像是深坑輕軌要推動的話那就新北市就要做可行性的研究那新北市政府現在正在辦可行性的研究那可行性研究以後可行的話那我們就會進入了這一個綜合規劃然後來進入這個"},{"start":617.891,"end":625.82,"text":"以後的這一些步驟所以這一個部分我們也樂觀其成說新北市有在做這個可行性的這一個研究"},{"start":627.187,"end":651.554,"text":"院長會支持嗎?我還沒講完。這個研究的情形,它是在112年5月1號提給交通部。這個提給交通部以後,我們交通部已經報到行政院來。還有一些意見需要新北市政府來做修正。所以我們現在也在等這個新北市政府的"},{"start":652.695,"end":676.077,"text":"來提出這一些修正的報告所以新北市政府快一點我們就可以快一點所以這個事情請委員多多敦促一下新北市政府這一次會期我是財委會的召委我馬上最快的時間來召集各部會召開一個協調會也好或者是合作的會議也好"},{"start":678.019,"end":704.532,"text":"從早上開始開會沒有結論出來我們就不下班一次到位一次完成你覺得院長可不可以這樣做我你開會是要講深坑輕軌的事情嗎深坑輕軌是我們把中央跟地方到底問題出在哪裡如果說是缺錢那就找錢的問題嘛我來想辦法嘛我來拜託行政院一起努力來找錢"},{"start":706.172,"end":726.638,"text":"那委員你就推出一下新北市政府趕快交修正報告來那我就兩邊一起召集會議來推出另外一個就是捷運環狀線南環段的部分現在開始動工了但是物價飆漲啊好多都是流標流標啊不曉得這個速度可不可以快一點"},{"start":727.618,"end":746.847,"text":"現在因為臺北市政府現在因為他經費不足了他最近有提的計畫就是北環南環加起來還有包括其他總共要增加700多億的預算那目前我們就行那個我們的審議研究就是說是可不可以規則一地方比如說這個"},{"start":748.497,"end":748.897,"text":"﹚羅明先生﹚"},{"start":776.832,"end":803.097,"text":"因為以前是大選區,汐止也是我的選區同樣一個時間20年喊了半天我們安坑縣在這邊要謝謝相關人員謝謝部長安坑縣輕軌在去年就完工通車了結果到現在喊了20年的前運西東縣現在還是遙遙無期我覺得看了好難過我真的是為汐止人"},{"start":804.076,"end":826.02,"text":"真的心裡覺得很痛心,同樣一個時間人家都好了,安坑清軌都好了,結果汐止都還沒好,真的大家要多加油了。另外一個就是有關新店安坑地區安城快速道路以及華城快速道路,希望"},{"start":827.382,"end":841.07,"text":"這個路就是差一小段安城快速道路因為當地有很多的居民幾萬再加上很多的學校上下班堵車堵得很厲害小小一段5公里"},{"start":841.889,"end":860.588,"text":"可是打通了以後卻讓整個地方交通更快速更便捷所以在這裡也要拜託陳院長可以多多與關心經費不多30億我很關心但是新北市政府的關心更重要這個計畫是新北市政府"},{"start":860.888,"end":886.14,"text":"要來推動那新北市政府如果不來努力推動不提出計畫我們沒有辦法補助所以請委員還是再推出一下新北市政府加油加油加油那我就來再召開一次那個不斷電的24小時開會把這些事情具體的落實另外一個央北環塊跟國道高架段的這個問題"},{"start":887.481,"end":908.92,"text":"因為都市計畫的發展,央北14張未來會多2萬戶,交通勢必會造成很大的困境,所以未雨綢繆拜託這個部分也開始左手動起來開始思考。因為時間的關係我可能有部分會改成"},{"start":909.747,"end":910.908,"text":"請問院長,攸關全民的電價問題已經決定要漲了嗎?"}]}},{"id":"150297","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150297","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09ed0b32f3d8ab18a10fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a69fdea197e840e7605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"16:31:21 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16:46:56","影片長度":"00:15:35","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":935,"end_time":"2024-03-22T16:46:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T16:31:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":724,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（16時31分）謝謝院長，我們是不是請陳建仁院長？"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：陳委員午安。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，我想去討論一下在交通規則的部分地方有很多的爭議啦！其實你知道我們現在各類公路並沒有統一的規範，然後到底誰的速限多少、要怎麼樣去標示的部分，並沒有一個統一規範，也就是說今天國道是高速公路局，省道是公路局，市道是地方政府，縣道是地方政府，區道是地方政府，鄉道是地方政府，但是我們發現，這一次因為有一個叫如果超過最高限速的40公里，我們是要吊扣駕照的，這是很嚴重的。可是我們因為事權不統一，當我從國道然後直接到了平面道路，也就是進入到市道、縣道或是區道的時候，我根本不知道到底它的限速是多少。大家都有開過車，很可能你從高速公路下來，你不知道它的速限，然後可能一踩，等到1個月、2個月之後，你可能要被吊扣駕照，這個是很嚴重，而且它的嚴重是會因為這樣子而喪失了他的工作權，部長你有沒有聽過這樣的一個陳情？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，第一個、我們全國不管從國道到地方，我們有一個標誌標線號誌設置規則，速限的部分一般我們設計就是設計速度的85%，以那個來設定，我們高速公路當然很清楚，就是110。"],["陳委員亭妃：現在清楚的只有高速公路，所以高速公路大家很清楚說大概110，我只要到150，哇！這個部分你就一定要被吊扣，這個大家清楚。可是你在其他的呢？你在一般的市道、縣道甚至省道也好，更不用講到區道或鄉道。"],["王部長國材：公路局的部分，像我們的快速道路也都很清楚，80、90，省道基本上也清楚，現在很多是在地方，因為它面積很廣，地方的部分，我們是覺得這個部分在他們的標誌，就是限速的標誌，不管在地下還是在路旁，這個都要很明顯，這第一個。"],["陳委員亭妃：這不明顯啊！因為就是事權不統一，根本沒有一個標準說大概在所謂市道跟縣道要多少的限速，所以現在都是各自為政，所有開車的人沒有辦法很清楚，你沒有很清楚的話，你很容易就踩到了那個紅線，你踩到了那個紅線，你被吊扣而影響到的可能就是你未來的生計問題，這是很嚴重，因為我們沒有做好配套。"],["王部長國材：對，縣市政府的部分的確有些為了市容，所以放的非常少，第二個很重要的就是說……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，而且通常都是在省道接過來之後，你看如果原本省道限速70，到區道、鄉道有可能只剩40，曾經還有人說30的，這是一下來就馬上面臨那個臨界。"],["王部長國材：所以我們是這麼建議……"],["陳委員亭妃：他是在不知情的狀況，我們現在絕對不鼓勵超速，也不鼓勵飆車，這個絕對不行，我們現在是在說沒有任何知情的狀態，因為從省道下來，說真的，大家不覺得限速會這麼低，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：本來限速是70，下來到一般道路，是不是踩了就過了？他是不知情的，不是要飆車，不是喔！也不是故意要競速，都不是！是在不知情的狀態之下。"],["王部長國材：尤其是在交界的地方。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，很危險，非常非常危險，而且沒有標示，那要怎麼樣？如果你下來一看到就馬上再踩嗎？"],["王部長國材：我想這部分如果兩個交界地方的速限差很多，結果又有測速照相，這個本身是比較有問題的。"],["陳委員亭妃：不會有問題啊！部長你講有問題，可是問題是這個即使去跟你們陳情都沒有用，因為標的限速確實就是這樣，你說確實有問題，那你要去改變，不是在這樣的一個區塊中讓所有人怨聲載道，你有沒有聽到這樣的抱怨？"],["王部長國材：委員，事實上是這樣，像我們的快速道路也一樣，在走的時候從90變80，馬上會有一個標示，如果下到地方以後，應該在交界的地方有個明顯的標誌，我想這部分我們來跟各地方，尤其是六都的交通局稍微討論一下，要有比較明顯的標誌。"],["陳委員亭妃：這一段時間我們收到很多陳情案，你知道嗎？在所謂的不知情狀態之下，莫名其妙收到單子，然後就被吊扣了，原因是超過最高限速40公里，我想說我怎麼會超過、我這麼小心的人，可是沒辦法。"],["王部長國材：另外，在100跟300公尺就要說前有測速照相，這個也要做。"],["陳院長建仁：對，buffer zone。"],["王部長國材：就是要有一個標誌說前有測速照相，這個如果沒有的話是可以申訴的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們已經從你們所有的高速公路局、公路局、地方政府去調所謂的連接資料，到底事權怎麼統一？沒有人知道！就一味用現在這樣的一個測速照相，然後拍到了就拍到了，根本沒辦法更改。"],["王部長國材：大致是這樣，高速公路大概是110，快速道路是90，地方原則是50，大概是以這樣，但是50可以隨著地方調成40或怎樣，但基本上如果開到市區，你就要注意這裡是50。"],["陳委員亭妃：重點是現在的問題在於所有地方政府的狀況非常亂，就像部長你講的是原則，可是有些會因為地方的狀況跟需求而有所調整，但這個調整沒有人知道，我一直強調大家都是在不知情的狀況下，不是故意要去競速、不是故意要去飆速，而是整個在不知情的正常速度之下，然後今天我們已經把它變成一個壓力在上面，所以如果你沒有去處理，我們問了所有的單位，沒有人知道怎麼辦，因為事權沒有統一，各個公路單位或是各縣市政府都不想淌這個渾水，那怎麼辦？所有用路人就比較倒楣。"],["王部長國材：應該在交接的地方要一個明顯的標誌。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！"],["王部長國材：我覺得不管是地面或是標誌。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長去瞭解一下，要有一個整體，就是瞭解到底標準要怎麼訂。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["陳委員亭妃：到底在整個道路規範當中……"],["陳院長建仁：對，設施。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，你要在什麼時候跟人家提醒，提醒限速多少。"],["王部長國材：對，交界一定要提醒。"],["陳委員亭妃：對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有的話，已經讓大家陷入到不知情狀況，然後莫名其妙收到單子已經要被吊扣了，這叫不知情，而不是故意去競速或飆速。"],["王部長國材：好，由我們來找……"],["陳委員亭妃：這會影響到人家的生計。"],["王部長國材：各地方的交通局來討論一下，在每一個交界，比如說速度變化的交界都要很明顯。"],["陳委員亭妃：甚至是你們也要有一個很大的緩衝。"],["王部長國材：對、對、對。"],["陳委員亭妃：你要緩衝讓大家知道……"],["陳院長建仁：對，buffer。"],["陳委員亭妃：這很重要，否則這樣一連接，明明我就是這樣順順的開，哪知道下去減為30，70到30是不是已經……"],["陳院長建仁：要罰款了。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊！要扣牌了。"],["陳院長建仁：要扣牌。"],["王部長國材：他也不能說開10公尺就變了，那個一定要有一個……"],["陳委員亭妃：要有一個緩衝嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！"],["王部長國材：要、要。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以要有一個緩衝，我強調你要有緩衝，這部分部長多久要給我們看怎麼樣處理？"],["王部長國材：我會請我們的司裡趕快跟各地交通局檢視一下，剛才談到尤其像高、快速道路下來以後，跟地方交界的這些標誌有沒有清楚，我們來找他們討論。"],["陳委員亭妃：還有在各地方政府他們自己所訂的這些限速，你要給他們一個標準，否則說真的，什麼樣的條件要到什麼樣的程度，我覺得這個也應該要有一個方向，我們所有開車的人或是騎車的人才會知道，這個再麻煩。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["陳委員亭妃：我再給院長看，院長，你有沒有看到連你的照片都會被盜用。"],["陳院長建仁：有。"],["陳委員亭妃：很困擾，對不對？連院長都會被盜用，所以你看多嚴重！"],["陳院長建仁：確實，我覺得……"],["陳委員亭妃：很嚴重，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對，這個詐騙的手法不斷地出陳翻新，而且越來越精緻，我覺得在打詐的努力上，我們需要加強。"],["陳委員亭妃：真的要加強。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：但是在網路當中，我們怎麼加強？最近大家都會把這個焦點、風頭好像全部擠到數位部上面，我覺得我們重點是要怎麼樣解決問題才是重要，我想問部長電子簽章法，其實我有提案，電子簽章法的部分你認為現在最大的問題是在哪裡？"],["唐部長鳳：是，本來的電子簽章法，20年前的版本並沒有說數位簽章就是國家好像發印鑑證明這樣的一個簽章，具有推定為本人簽名的效力，因為這樣的關係，所以像Facebook，您剛剛看到的，或者是YouTube等等的平臺，結果就是說它並沒有用這種高強度的數位簽章，導致任何人可以換一個人頭帳號、再換一個人頭帳號，然後每個人都變成跟名人的名字、聲音差不多，或者甚至同名同姓，但是如果有一個類似印鑑章這樣新的數位簽章，除非他名字剛好可以跟我一樣，不然就不能用我的名義去刊廣告。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以就是用高度管理在電子簽章的部分，可是問題是現在電子簽章有一個狀態，就是事權的問題，事權現在似乎在網路廣告的部分是經濟部在管的吧？"],["唐部長鳳：其實本來電子簽章法也是經濟部，但是本部成立之後，我們就變成電子簽章法的主管機關，至於您剛剛提到網路廣告平臺業，我們已經正式跟經濟部發函，希望它們設立這個業之後，讓我們來當主管機關，經濟部已經原則同意了。"],["陳委員亭妃：原則同意，多久？我覺得這是配套，這一定要先做。"],["唐部長鳳：當然。"],["陳委員亭妃：你沒有先做變成事權不一的話，執行也會有問題。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，原則同意，多久要完成這所謂整個轉接？"],["唐部長鳳：它有一個預告程序，經濟部跟我們說大概二個月左右，因為法案三讀也需要時間，我們現在是大概差不多的時間……"],["陳院長建仁：跟法案的……"],["唐部長鳳：應該是可以上路。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以同步？"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳院長建仁：希望。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為其實電子簽章法有一個很重大的嚇阻力，也就像部長所說的，它是用高強度，你要去做簽章的動作。"],["唐部長鳳：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個簽章完之後，當然就會有一個認證，這個認證完，我就認你，像未來院長……"],["陳院長建仁：對，不會被盜用了。"],["陳委員亭妃：他就不會出現在上面了，因為不是他認證的。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["唐部長鳳：沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以這個很重要，速度一定要快。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：尤其很多民眾真的不知情，我還是要講，民眾的不知情就會造成很多的麻煩跟困擾，所以在整個網路詐騙的部分，除了廣告，部長，網路詐騙我們到底要怎麼辦？除了電子簽章法的修訂，還有什麼方式可以去有效管理降低網路詐騙？"],["唐部長鳳：其實電商法不只能用在網路廣告上面，像是C2C就是個人賣家的電商，以前公司行號自己開一個電商，你可以知道它設立在哪裡，但如果是個人的拍賣等等，其實透過數位簽章，你也可以要求這個賣家必須用真實的姓名告訴大家他就是這個人，不能夠再換100個不同的人頭，不斷地用類似商品去詐騙其他人。所以我想我們所有數位經濟相關產業，包含電商在內，未來我們都會同步來推動這種數位簽章的用法。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長，電子簽章法修法完成之後，你認為我們就可以有效嚇阻所有的網路詐騙嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：特別是在冒充名人或是冒充知名人物或直播主或拍賣，像這樣去冒充別人的型態，我覺得……"],["陳委員亭妃：冒充別人的身分。"],["唐部長鳳：對，我覺得會非常有用。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，在冒充身分的部分。但是在網路詐騙不只是冒充身分。"],["唐部長鳳：當然。"],["陳委員亭妃：另外一個區塊要怎麼有效遏止，你們有方向了嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：不過像之前解除分期付款的詐騙，就是買了一個電商的商品之後，真實的貨品還沒到，結果詐騙簡訊先到了，這個部分我們已經5個月來都沒有再列為高風險賣場；另外，遊戲點數的部分也解決了。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個部分再麻煩部長，因為網路詐騙真的實在是太猖狂了。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳院長建仁：對，太猖狂了。"],["陳委員亭妃：再麻煩你，謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員亭妃的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第19號羅委員明才質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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":376.243,"end":388.385,"text":"原因是因為你超過限速40,最高限速40公里。可是他說,我怎麼會超過我這麼小心的人,可是沒辦法。"},{"start":389.29,"end":403.409,"text":"另外他那個在100跟300公尺就要說前有測速照相,這個也要做。我想這個是就是要有一個標誌說前有測速照相。這個如果沒有的話是可以申訴的。我們已經把"},{"start":407.134,"end":435.667,"text":"所有你們從高速公路局、公路局、地方政府我們去調所有你們對於這所謂連接然後到底事權怎麼統一沒有人知道沒有人知道然後呢就一味的用我們現在這樣子一個所謂的測速照相然後拍到了就到了啊你根本沒有辦法更改"},{"start":436.465,"end":452.18,"text":"大致這樣齁,就是說我們一般高速公路大概110嘛,快速到90,地方原則是50啦,大概以這樣,但是那50它可以隨地方有時候變40或怎麼樣或調,基本上大概是,如果你開到47你要注意說這裡是50,要注意這個是。"},{"start":453.962,"end":466.108,"text":"沒有重點是現在的問題是在於現在所有的地方政府的狀況是非常亂的就像部長你說的你講的是原則"},{"start":467.469,"end":491.105,"text":"可是有些會因為地方的狀況跟需求而有所調整可是這個調整沒有人知道沒有人知道我一直強調的是大家都是在不知情的狀況不是故意要去競速不是故意要去飆速而是在整個不知情而且是正常速度正常速度之下"},{"start":492.677,"end":517.784,"text":"然後你今天因為我們已經把它變成有一個壓力在上面所以如果你沒有去處理我們問了所有的單位沒有人知道怎麼辦啊因為事權沒有統一啊然後各個公路單位或是各縣市政府大家都不想躺這個渾水那怎麼辦那所有用路人就比較倒楣"},{"start":519.157,"end":546.369,"text":"應該在交接的地方要有一個明顯的標誌。不管是地面或是標誌。所以部長去了解一下就是說你要有一個整體就是說了解到底標準要怎麼定到底我們在整個道路規範當中設施對你要在什麼時候跟人家提醒提醒說這裡限數多少"},{"start":550.119,"end":562.343,"text":"你沒有的話你已經讓大家陷入到不知情狀況然後莫名其妙收到單子已經要被調扣了這叫不知情而不是故意去競訴或飆訴"},{"start":563.916,"end":585.858,"text":"好,我們來找各地方的交通局來討論一下,在每一個交界,比如說速度變化的交界都要很明顯。甚至是你們也要有一個很大的緩衝,你要緩衝讓大家知道,這很重要,否則你這樣一連接明明我就是這樣順順的開,我哪知道下去他減為30。"},{"start":587.816,"end":607.817,"text":"七十到三十他是不是已經﹖要跑反了﹖對啊,要擴排了欸。要擴排。就是說他也不能說開10公尺就變了,那個一定要有一個﹖會要一個緩衝嘛。對的,要。所以有一個緩衝,我強調你要有緩衝。是。好,這部分部長,多久多久要給我們看。"},{"start":608.393,"end":626.853,"text":"我會請我們的司理趕快跟各地的交通局檢視一下剛才談到尤其像高快速道路下來以後跟地方的交界的這些標誌有沒有清楚我們來找他們還有在各地方政府他們自己所訂的這些限數你要給他們一個標準"},{"start":628.815,"end":652.388,"text":"否則說真的,什麼樣的一個條件要到什麼樣的程度,什麼條件要到什麼程度,我覺得這個也應該要有一個方向。那我們所有的開車的人或是騎車的人才會知道。這個再麻煩齁。那我再給這個我們院長看。院長你有沒有看到,這個連你的照片都會被盜用。很困擾對不對,連院長都會被盜用欸。"},{"start":655.828,"end":672.087,"text":"所以你看多嚴重,很嚴重對不對?對,這個詐騙的手法不斷的出城翻新,然後而且越來越精緻。我是覺得在打詐的努力上我們需要加強。"},{"start":673.387,"end":699.115,"text":"真的要加強但是在網路當中我們怎麼加強我覺得最近大家都會把這個焦點風頭好像全部擠到數位部上面我覺得我們是要重點是要怎麼樣解決問題才是重要我想問部長就是說電子簽章法其實我有提案就是說電子簽章法的部分你認為現在最大的問題是在哪裡"},{"start":700.02,"end":716.572,"text":"是。我們本來的電子簽章法20年前的版本我們並沒有說數位簽章就是國家好像發一個印鑑證明的這樣子的一個簽章具有推定為本人簽名的效力因為這樣的關係所以像Facebook您剛剛看到的或者是YouTube等等的平台"},{"start":717.212,"end":735.948,"text":"結果就說他並沒有用這種高強度的數位簽章導致說任何人他可以換一個人頭帳號再換一個人頭帳號然後每個人都變成跟名人名字聲音差不多或者甚至同名同姓但是如果有一個類似硬件章這樣新的數位簽章其實除非他名字剛好跟我一樣不然就不能用我的名義去看廣告"},{"start":736.485,"end":753.244,"text":"所以就是用高度管理在電子簽章的部分可是問題是現在電子簽章有一個狀態就是事權的問題事權現在似乎在網路廣告的部分是經濟部在管的吧"},{"start":753.96,"end":765.21,"text":"其實本來電子簽商法也是經濟部但在本部成立之後我們就變成電子簽商法主管機關那至於您剛剛提到網路廣告平台業我們已經正式跟經濟部發函希望他們設立這個業之後讓我們來當主管機關經濟部已經原則同意了"},{"start":768.615,"end":797.42,"text":"原則同意,多久?我覺得這是配套啊,這一定要先做啊。你沒有先做,你變成事權不一的話,你執行也會有問題啊。那好,原則同意,那多久要完成這所謂的整個轉接?它有一個預告程序,那經濟部跟我們是說大概兩個月左右。因為法案三讀也需要時間嘛,我們現在是大概差不多的時間,應該是可以上路。所以同步,同步。希望。其實電子簽章法它有一個很重大的"},{"start":798.18,"end":813.703,"text":"和主力也就像部長所說的他是用高強度的你要去做簽章的動作那你這個簽章完之後你當然就會有一個認證那這個認證完我就認你像未來這個院長"},{"start":814.704,"end":841.145,"text":"他就不會出現在上面了因為不是他認證的所以這個很重要所以速度一定要快尤其很多的民眾真的不知情我還是要講民眾的不知情就會造成很多的麻煩跟困擾所以在網路的整個所謂詐騙的部分除了廣告其實網路詐騙部長我們到底要怎麼辦除了電子簽商法修訂之後"},{"start":842.106,"end":865.485,"text":"還有什麼方式可以有效去管理降低網路詐騙?其實電子想法不只能夠用在網路廣告上面,好比像說有所謂的C2C就是個人的賣家的這種電商那以前當然如果公司行號自己開一個電商你可以知道他設立在哪裡但是如果是個人的拍賣啊或等等那其實透過數位簽章你也可以要求說這個賣家他必須用真實的姓名"},{"start":865.905,"end":868.386,"text":"所以部長,電子簽章法完成之後,修法完成之後,你認為我們就可以有效去嚇阻所有的網路詐騙嗎?"},{"start":891.584,"end":897.554,"text":"就是說特別是在冒充名人或者冒充知名的這種人物或者直播主或者拍賣"},{"start":898.097,"end":922.5,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":934.872,"end":934.892,"text":"謝謝陳委員"}]}},{"id":"150296","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150296","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e9eb294df6f63bcbbfd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a67f5639744999c7205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"16:05:21 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16:21:06","影片長度":"00:15:45","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":945,"end_time":"2024-03-22T16:21:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T16:05:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":667,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（16時5分）請院長。"],["主席：麻煩請陳院長再度備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：陳委員午安，謝謝你早上國是論壇的建言，我有聽進去。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝院長。今天很高興用不同的身分跟院長對話，過去是行政院政務顧問的時候，我們把嘉義的很多問題，包含我們講到的公糧問題、交通議題等等跟院長反映，也謝謝院長都能夠花時間聆聽、瞭解，然後做一些改善。特別是今天早上、還有今天下午吳琪銘委員有提到國土計畫的部分，其實我們都是一樣，我們的想法跟回響都是一致的，希望能夠延緩。不過今天我們準備了幾個跟交通相關的重大議題想要跟院長討論，包含民雄航太園區、民雄鐵路高架化、梅山纜車、還有緊急的救難通訊等等問題。","首先我必須談一下民雄航太園區，今天吳沛憶委員也談到低軌衛星的部分，我會在航太園區裡面跟大家談一下。民雄航太暨無人機產業園區是現在全世界都在搶著發展的航太產業，我們嘉義縣躬逢其盛，現在行政院在民雄規劃了一個民雄航太園區，要用來發展航太、軍工、無人機產業。我想要請教一下，民雄航太園區是以164線劃分為東、西兩側，東邊是中科院航太暨無人機園區，西邊是民雄航太暨無人機產業園區。東邊的部分目前沒有什麼開發的問題，去年12月動土，未來要興建研宿大樓、基礎工程，大概2025年底就能夠完工，現在有問題的好像是西邊。院長，我想請教一下，現在到底是誰負責開發這個園區，是經濟部、縣府，還是國防部？"],["陳院長建仁：在這個部分的話，我想各部會都有它職司、該做的部分，中科院是做無人機園區的規劃，經濟部、產發署及嘉義縣政府是協助調查及招商，所以各有各的責任。"],["陳委員冠廷：是。院長，這個開發的總經費是68億元，應該會由國發會納入公建計畫……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["陳委員冠廷：大概是由經濟部無人機專案辦公室處理，可是它有經驗去處理這個將近30公頃的園區嗎？我是認為、也建議院長，如果可以的話，相關的開發工作還是要交給經濟部產業園區管理局來處理，因為它下面有大概50個產業園區及9個科技產業園區，所以比較適合這樣的開發工作，不知道院長現在是不是可以交辦給經濟部，讓整個統整會更快速？"],["陳院長建仁：就這個部分，我們讓中科院及經濟部再做內部的協商，我請副院長來做一下協調，好不好？"],["陳委員冠廷：OK。"],["陳院長建仁：看怎麼樣能夠把園區發展得更好，或者中科院主責，但是經濟部也在怎麼樣的協助，我們討論完再跟委員報告。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝院長。院長，我特別談到低軌衛星，是因為除了中科院部分，兩個產業園區都有講到航太。低軌衛星的廠商進駐園區，我認為可以注入很好的不管是科研能量或者是經濟的能量，現在這個產業園區規劃的是無人機及軍工產業，您有沒有辦法確保未來有更多可以容納低軌衛星的產業進駐？因為我看總統府之前在正式的新聞稿中，都說未來會投入400億，進行低軌衛星的研製、人才培育等等，這個可能性有沒有？有沒有這樣的規劃？"],["陳院長建仁：有。在這個部分，我想我們也要看看現在數位部有關於低軌衛星運用的情形，我們到時候看它到底適不適合在這個園區，我想我們可以來做一個研討，但是園區一定會讓它有充分的廠商進駐，然後讓園區能夠更蓬勃的發展。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝院長，我特別要強調一下，因為無人機航太園區，大家幾乎馬上把所有的注意力都放在無人機產業，但是其實有關低軌衛星，剛才部長也有提到，包含在我們一些重要的島嶼，像太平島等等，都有它應用的地方，所以我是希望，現在已經有了亞創，然後再加上亞創是一個做研擬、研究的中心，未來生產中心在民雄，包含低軌衛星也不是只有衛星這個部分而已，還有地面的接收設備等等，我認為它是可以作為一個群聚的產業，包含從民雄開始到太保整個地區，我們有民雄航太園區、我們有台積電進駐，其實是一個充滿未來性的產業，我希望次世代產業區有一個完整的聚落，所以我還是希望不僅不能夠排除低軌衛星的廠商進駐園區，甚至希望部長能夠善用你自己跟世界跟國際的連結，能夠讓這些重要的廠商，不管是像星鏈這種直接有能力的公司，或者是地面接收設備的公司，都能夠做一個完整的整合，部長可不可以簡單回應一下？"],["唐部長鳳：我想只要在資安確保無虞的情況下，我們都很願意去跟國際的廠商來合作，委員剛剛問到的就是低軌衛星接收器，目前大概還是要透過一個基地臺，然後透過5G或WiFi訊號再分享出去，但我們也預測未來大概2年左右慢慢就會有手機或者無人機可以直接連低軌衛星的狀況，到那個時候我想廠商會變得比較多，我們會隨時來評估。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們在這邊也是希望透過國會的殿堂來去鼓勵這些產業能夠進駐。"],["陳院長建仁：對，這好主意。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝院長、謝謝部長。接下來我們要談民雄的鐵路高架化，還有它的車站整體規劃跟高架橋下面的利用，這部分我們可能要請王國材部長，部長您在，謝謝。","鐵路高架化這一個部分，其實我們爭取高架化從馬英九前總統時代是否決，現在經過賴清德、蘇貞昌還有陳建仁院長，總算是核定動工，所以我還是要代表我們的團隊，還有我們嘉義這些縣民們來表示肯定。但是我要詢問的是高架下面的空間是誰的權責歸屬？鐵路高架之後，高架鐵路下面的垂直空間就會騰出來，這個空間是誰管？是鐵道局？臺鐵公司？還是地方政府？"],["陳院長建仁：兩個一起。"],["王部長國材：最主要的產權還是在臺鐵公司。但是都市計畫變更要經過地方政府的協助。"],["陳委員冠廷：據我的瞭解，這個空間的土地權屬在鐵路蓋好之前應該是鐵道局，鐵路蓋好之後就要移交給臺鐵公司，正常來說高架橋下面的空間大概是給臺鐵公司去做處理。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳委員冠廷：現在的問題就是臺中也有類似這樣的問題，是因為我們研究室的研究員，他是臺中人，他也提到過去就是把財產點交給臺鐵公司，但是財產很難登記過去，因為臺鐵公司不太願意去處理這個部分，所以常常會拒絕辦理登記，所以有些時候會變成下面的空間就會荒廢，甚至用鐵皮圍起來，我們是希望空間是必須要活化，不管作為親子小型的公園、小型的籃球場、停車場，任何讓民眾可以使用的場所，如果你讓它荒廢的話，它反而就會成為都市的隱形毒瘤，它是一個可以完整規劃的空間，所以因為過去已經有前車之鑑，所以我們希望能夠避免這樣的問題，院長，有沒有義務跟責任讓交通部來去協調，確保如果鐵路高架化之後，這個垂直空間可以有效運用？我們在問題發生之前先解決問題，不知道院長可不可以？"],["陳院長建仁：我想我們請交通部來一起做……"],["王部長國材：沒問題。的確，鐵路的地下平面空間雖然是屬於臺鐵公司，但是我們還蠻期待跟地方政府一起來做它的使用，看看到底要做什麼使用，所以我認為這一部分事實上可以跟地方政府，因為地點還是在地方政府，所以由交通部出面也可以，臺鐵公司跟……"],["陳委員冠廷：提前處理，我是怕未來如果發生這樣的問題再解決的話又要花時間，這樣不太好，沒關係，我們事先……"],["王部長國材：委員說要交通部出面是嗎？可以、可以！"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長。接下來我們來談一下民雄站前的開發，還有它的日式宿舍群。院長最近這幾年有沒有去日本考察？"],["陳院長建仁：最近因為我……"],["陳委員冠廷：比較困難，因為身分的關係……"],["陳院長建仁：不准。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，可能比較困難，因為安全因素還有國際情勢，請問院長過去對日本車站的印象是什麼？"],["陳院長建仁：我還滿喜歡日本的，我以前在當學者的時候常常去，我覺得它有關於車站整體的開發做得相當成功，不管是大阪也好，或是京都也好、神戶也好，都做得很成功，所以他們鐵道公司副業賺的錢反而比票價賺的更多。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒錯，因為日本的鐵道公司可以利用他們車站的優勢，可能會做商場、做飯店或做出租公寓，變成一個綜合營運的公司。就如同你剛剛說的，像九州JR2022年的總營收是2,116億日圓，但是非鐵道本業是70%，這是我們臺鐵公司未來可以努力的方向，找出自己的價值，幫國家創造出更多的價值，這是很重要的。","我們談回民雄車站高架化，在高架化核定之後，我想請教鐵道局、臺鐵公司有沒有跟縣政府談論整個民雄車站周邊的整體開發計畫？"],["王部長國材：有，目前有，目前在做個案變更，事實上，這很重要，在鐵路高架最重要的一點就是車站開發，剛剛談到日本的例子，我目前也是希望在民雄車站規劃包括一些複合商業大樓和商店、餐飲，還有一些生活娛樂的空間，目前有這樣的想法。"],["陳委員冠廷：我必須要再強調，如果我們仔細看剛才的整個車站平面圖的話，大概可以知道未來如果興建站前廣場或是停等區，可能會遇到一些青年朋友來反映，它會不會影響到舊的民雄分局宿舍群，這個宿舍群是從日治時代沿用到現在，所以現在地方上有聲音說他們擔心會不會因為這個規劃而影響到整個宿舍群的部分，我想請問部長有沒有聽到類似這樣子的concern？"],["王部長國材：我目前沒有聽到，但是過去在臺鐵車站的確也有類似的案例，比如宿舍群的保留與新開發融為一體，我想這部分可以兩邊再討論一下。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長，我指出這一點的目的是，除了不要讓它被影響之外，在做整體車站規劃的時候也能夠考量到舊的地景及舊的文史古蹟。"],["王部長國材：保留變成一部。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，所以在做車站整體規劃的時候，在做整個景觀營造的時候，可以納入這一個景觀，讓它成為一個重要的視覺點，我們現在很多車站包含嘉義市車站，如果你仔細看嘉義市車站的話，它現在回復成最古色古香的狀況。所以它同時能夠維持過去古色古香的狀況之外，又能夠把旁邊的這些周遭景色融在一起，對嘉義縣第一大鄉民雄鄉來講，就是一個很好的示範地區，我還是希望交通部能夠在整體開發的時候把這個文化精神放在裡面，這是我們希望能夠做到的。","接下來想要請教關於緊急通難救助的部分，這個部分可能要請數位部部長，其實我們嘉義縣山區有兩個主要省道，一個是臺18，可以到阿里山森林遊樂區；另外一個是臺3，可以到大埔鄉。但是這兩個省道的通訊死角其實是非常多的，譬如中埔到大埔路段，2023年1月至8月警方統計死亡次數是超過60件，全國到底有多少類似這樣的地方？為什麼我會特別講到這個問題？因為包含大埔鄉長，他帶領我們到每一個訊號死點的時候，他都有強調這一位鄉親過去曾在這個地方發生交通事故，還好第2天下午有人發現，所以趕快送醫，但是這樣子已經經過大概7到8個小時，甚至是10到18個小時，所以這個地方的通訊很重要，我們也是肯定數位部韌性司都有去處理這個部分。我希望未來除了嘉義縣之外，除了阿里山、番路、竹崎等等，全臺灣各個重要景區的重要道路一定會有這樣的部分，來做一個完整的統整，不管是交通部也好、數位部也好，一起來統整並避免這樣子的問題，不知道部長跟院長有沒有辦法統合去處理？"],["唐部長鳳：我們當然可以來盤點，然後我們也會跟NCC合作，由NCC來指定哪些地方應該要優先來加強，我們會提供經費，這個沒有問題。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝。針對梅山纜車，我還是要快速地講一下。3月14日我們有收到交通部的公文，預計在梅山市區和太平村各辦一個說明會，我想請教這兩個說明會有沒有可能在上半年辦完？就是交通部關於梅山纜車的可行性評估不知道是不是可以提早把它做完，因為未來還有綜合規劃、環境影響評估、工程設計，所以這個部分想要請教一下部長，有沒有辦法儘快把它完成？"],["王部長國材：現在阿里山風管處積極在進行、做一些前置作業，前置作業完成，可以的話就進入可行性評估，然後再往後來走。"],["陳委員冠廷：最後還是要補問一個問題，就是關於嘉義TPASS的部分，因為有很多鄉親，包含各個市議員都有到我們的辦公室來討論這部分，其實TPASS在嘉義市是399元，但是只有大林到南靖，等於是只有6個站點而已，對於未來整個嘉義、整個產業，未來包含台積電的進駐也好，民雄航太園區也好，其實未來通勤所需要的，如果只有在嘉嘉地區，我是覺得有點可惜，是不是可以來考慮增設站點，是否可以請部長回去再思考一下？"],["王部長國材：我們會討論一下。"],["陳委員冠廷：好不好？這個我們之後再繼續來討論，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：對啦，好。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員冠廷的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，現在休息10分鐘，休息之後我們繼續進行質詢，現在休息。","休息（16時21分）","繼續開會（16時31分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1131401_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.95159375,"end":23.200343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.398468750000003,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.372218750000002,"end":34.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.74284375,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.73409375,"end":40.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.95284375,"end":43.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.197218750000005,"end":57.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.35534375,"end":67.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.81909375,"end":59.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.66159375000001,"end":68.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.15096875,"end":77.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.45346875,"end":80.87909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.14909375,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.30784375,"end":106.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.81596875000001,"end":120.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.60284375,"end":126.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.79596875000001,"end":132.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.85409375,"end":133.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.96784375000001,"end":135.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.97596875000002,"end":141.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.40971875,"end":144.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.79284375,"end":160.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.32659375,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":166.06409375,"end":182.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.68596875,"end":199.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.94909375,"end":201.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.43409375000002,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.03721875000002,"end":215.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.18721875,"end":223.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.37284375000002,"end":215.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.73096875000002,"end":219.01784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.64159375000003,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.96596875,"end":228.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.41721875000002,"end":236.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.68596875000003,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.19534375,"end":248.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.51534375000003,"end":266.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.97659375,"end":267.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.06096875000003,"end":267.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.39846875,"end":267.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.44909375000003,"end":267.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.71909375,"end":294.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.92159375,"end":359.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":359.85659375,"end":362.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.06721875,"end":384.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.71346875,"end":385.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.03409375,"end":385.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.33784375000005,"end":385.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":385.35471875,"end":397.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.42596875000004,"end":388.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.17971875,"end":403.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.57534375,"end":410.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.24096875000004,"end":416.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.18096875000003,"end":422.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.76221875000005,"end":428.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.88034375,"end":424.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.28034375000004,"end":430.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.51221875000005,"end":433.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.10659375,"end":436.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.43534375,"end":437.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.95409375,"end":438.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.81471875000005,"end":439.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.35034375000004,"end":441.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.75096875,"end":445.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.97409375,"end":446.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.18909375000004,"end":449.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.23971875,"end":446.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.26471875000004,"end":448.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.36159375000005,"end":450.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.39096875,"end":458.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.182843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謝謝部長"},{"start":391.348,"end":397.177,"text":"那接下來我們要談民雄的鐵路高架化還有他的車站整體的這個規劃跟高架橋下面的利用"},{"start":398.397,"end":422.495,"text":"這部分我們可能要請黃國才部長一起,謝謝。那鐵路高價化這一個部分,其實我們爭取這個高價化是從馬英九前總統時代是否決啦,他到現在經過賴清德、蘇貞昌還有陳建仁院長總算是核定動工,所以還是要代表我們的團隊還有我們嘉義的這些姓名們來表示肯定。"},{"start":423.78,"end":423.82,"text":"兩格一結"},{"start":442.223,"end":463.966,"text":"主要的產權還是在台鐵公司,但是都市要變更,要經過地方政府來協助。據我的了解,這個空間的土地全屬應該是鐵路蓋好之前是鐵道局,鐵路蓋好之後就要移交給台鐵公司。那正常來說這個高架橋下面的空間大概是給台鐵公司去做處理。"},{"start":465.047,"end":488.192,"text":"現在的問題就是說台中有類似這樣的問題是因為我們的這個研究室的研究員特別他是台中人他也提到說過去就是把財產點交給台鐵公司但是財產很難登記過去因為台鐵公司不太願意去處理這個部分所以常常會辦就拒絕辦理登記所以這些空間有些時候會變成說下面的空間有的時候就會荒廢甚至用鐵皮圍起來"},{"start":488.712,"end":488.912,"text":"議員長可不可以"},{"start":512.756,"end":513.076,"text":"的確就是說鐵路的"},{"start":531.567,"end":531.587,"text":"謝謝,謝謝部長。"},{"start":558.895,"end":575.423,"text":"接下來我們來談一下民雄戰前的開發還有他的這個日式宿舍群。院長最近這幾年有沒有去日本考察?最近因為我...比較困難因為身份的關係對不對?可能比較困難因為安全因素還有國際的情勢。那請問"},{"start":577.528,"end":603.397,"text":"議長過去在日本的車站你的印象是什麼我還蠻喜歡日本的我以前在當學者的時候常常去那我覺得他這個有關於車站整體的開發做得相當成功不管是大阪也好或者是京都也好或者是神戶也好都做得是很成功所以他們鐵道公司賺的錢是這一些副業賺的錢反而比這個票價賺得更多"},{"start":603.937,"end":626.72,"text":"沒錯,因為日本的鐵道公司它可以利用他們車站的優勢,那可能會做商場、做飯店或做出租公寓,它變成一個總和營運的公司。所以就如同你剛剛說的,像是九州JR的2022年的總營收是2116億日元,但是非鐵道本業的是70%。所以說這是我們台鐵公司未來可以努力的方向,找出自己的價值。"},{"start":627.501,"end":642.299,"text":"那幫國家賺出更多的價值,這是很重要的。那我們談回這個民雄車站的高價化。在這個高價化核定之後,鐵道局台鐵公司,我想請教一下有沒有跟縣政府來談論整個民雄車站周邊的整體開發計畫。"},{"start":645.622,"end":664.819,"text":"目前有,目前在做個案編,事實上這很重要,在鐵路高架最重要的點就是車站開發,剛才談到日本的例子。目前也是希望在民雄車站包括一些複合商業大樓跟商店等等餐飲,還有一些生活娛樂的空間,目前有這樣的想法。"},{"start":665.998,"end":685.711,"text":"其實整個車站我必須要再強調,因為說如果我們仔細看剛才的這個整個平面圖的話,大家可以知道說在我們未來如果興建站前廣場的話,或者是停等區,可能會遇到一些青年朋友來反映就是說他會不會影響到這個舊的民雄分局的宿舍群。"},{"start":686.371,"end":708.382,"text":"那這個宿舍群是從日治時代延誘到現在所以現在地方上是有聲音說他們擔心會不會因為這個規劃的話會影響到整個宿舍群的部分我想請問部長有沒有聽到類似這樣子的這種我目前沒有聽到但是過去在台北車站的確也有類似比如說宿舍群的保留跟你新開發什麼融合一體"},{"start":708.982,"end":731.117,"text":"我想這部分可以在兩邊再討論一下。謝謝部長,我指出這一點的目的是說除了不是要讓他被影響之外,他在做整體車站規劃的時候,也能夠考量到舊的地景跟舊的文石。保留變成一部分。對,所以變成說在車站的規劃的時候,你在做整體規劃的時候,在做整個景觀營造的時候,可以納入這個景觀。"},{"start":732.638,"end":755.276,"text":"讓他成為一個重要的視覺點。所以我們現在很多車站,包括嘉義市的車站,如果你仔細看嘉義市的車站的話,他現在回復成他最古色古香的狀況。所以他同時能夠維持他過去的古色古香的狀況之外,又能夠把旁邊的這些周遭的景色融在一起。那整個民雄鄉對我們嘉義縣第一大鄉來講,那就是一個很好的示範地區。"},{"start":755.776,"end":755.896,"text":"﹚陳冠廷"},{"start":787.895,"end":808.383,"text":"其實我們嘉義縣山區有兩個主要的省道一個是台18那是到阿里山森林遊樂區那另外一個是台3可以到大埔鄉但是這兩個省道其實它通訊死角是非常多的譬如說中埔到大埔這個路段2023年1月到8月警方的統計死亡次數是超過60件"},{"start":810.464,"end":838.966,"text":"全國到底有類似多少這樣的地方為什麼會特別講到這個地址是因為包含大埔鄉長他帶領我們到整個每一個這個訊號時點的時候他都有強調說這一位鄉親他過去曾在這個地方交通事故那還好第二天下午有人發現所以趕快再送醫所以這樣子已經經過大概7到8個小時甚至10到18個小時所以這個地方的通訊很重要那我們這邊也是肯定任性司所有的任性司都有來去處理這個部分"},{"start":839.606,"end":839.746,"text":"﹚主席"},{"start":869.506,"end":871.387,"text":"梅山市區和太平村各辦一個說明會。整體的交通部關於梅山纜車的可行性評估。"},{"start":887.995,"end":904.997,"text":"不知道是不是可以提早把它做完因為未來還有綜合規劃影響環境影響評估工程設計所以這個部分想要請教一下部長有沒有辦法盡快把它完成現在阿里山分管處就積極在進行做一些前置的座位那前置座位完可以的話就進入可行性然後再往後來走這樣"},{"start":905.798,"end":922.527,"text":"謝謝最後還是要補問一個問題就是關於加一TPES的部分因為其實有很多鄉親特別在包含各個市議員都有來到我們的辦公室來討論到這個部分其實TPES在我們加一是399元但是我們只有大林但到南進等於是只有6個鄉鎮"},{"start":923.387,"end":945.401,"text":"謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"150295","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150295","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e610905627eddfc92fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6b77dfa5c9f6747f25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"15:49:36 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iPad上來，沒有辦法秀給大家看。等一下我才會問到NCC主委，但你確實有講是前一任的事情，合先敘明。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我說「前一任」，不是說「前朝」……"],["徐委員巧芯：「前一任的事情」你有沒有說？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是「前一任」，對啊！沒有錯，是前一任的……"],["陳院長建仁：因為葉委員問他「前朝」。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你說「那是前一任的事情」，這句話我跟您確認您有講。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：什麼？哪一句話？"],["徐委員巧芯：您有講這一句話，叫做「那是前一任的事情」。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！這個案子是前一任作成的決定。"],["徐委員巧芯：我知道了，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：葉委員問他是「前朝」，是葉委員的錯。"],["徐委員巧芯：我幫你們來公道一下，前一任的事情就前一任的事，現在大家知道了，好嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好，是前一任。"],["徐委員巧芯：剛剛葉委員關心有關無人機零件的事情，我也很關心。2023年9月15日蔡總統去視察無人機，當時我們很開心還跟他報告，目前軍用商規非常辛苦、做到了100%沒有中國的零件。我們覺得這是很好的事情，我們就是自己能做就自己做。但是今天他去的時候上面出現的是MIC，這個部分剛剛院長有回答過了。請看所謂的驅動馬達上面不只寫MIC，其實你可以看到什麼？這是由大陸南昌三瑞智能科技股份有限公司製造，而且可以查到售價是369塊美金。針對這次賴準總統去參訪，結果出糗了，請問我們會不會要求這個廠商要具體改善？"],["陳院長建仁：這個廠商自己都已經說了，因為這是在測試的狀況下，他已經裝了在測試，而且……"],["徐委員巧芯：廠商說之後會換，但我要問的不是廠商……"],["陳院長建仁：而且現在臺灣已經可以自己生產了……"],["徐委員巧芯：我們要問的是行政院的態度。"],["陳院長建仁：所以不要為這件事情在那邊大驚小怪。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你覺得發現上面有 MIC是大驚小怪？"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！當然，廠商都自己講了，他在測試的過程……"],["徐委員巧芯：如果今天不是記者在現場看得很清楚，是不是不會有人發現有這樣的事情……"],["陳院長建仁：在這裡問這個沒意思啦……"],["徐委員巧芯：是不是後續就沒有人追查了？有人幫你找到上面有 MIC的問題，你竟然說大家大驚小怪！"],["陳院長建仁：你把神聖的民主殿堂拿來做網紅的事。"],["徐委員巧芯：這個跟網紅沒有關係，我沒有提到網紅，那是前一位委員說的……"],["陳院長建仁：我剛才就講了。"],["徐委員巧芯：請不要栽到我的頭上。我是要問行政院的態度，會不會要求廠商未來在參展的時候，也要注意所有的樣品不可以有MIC？還是您認為 MIC如果是在展覽當中OK，只是不能做後續的生產，請問是哪一種態度？"],["陳院長建仁：當然我們是儘可能的不要有MIC。"],["徐委員巧芯：展覽可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：但是在展覽的時候，當然我們會讓廠商再提高警覺。我跟委員報告，發現這件事情以後……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以未來如果在展覽還出現也OK。"],["陳院長建仁：很多廠商不會再使用了，因為已經有國產了。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，我們知道你的意思了，就是展覽的時候不要大驚小怪，是這個意思？"],["陳院長建仁：對，不需要如此大做文章。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。我們再談一下電價，跟民生有關的事情，大家都很在乎。這一波電價調整平均達到11%，除了民生的部分漲了之外，包含商用也會漲，現在大家很關心的是，如果電價漲了以後，物價會不會漲，尤其大眾運輸。今天要特別跟院長談的是臺鐵、高鐵、捷運跟客運，請問這四種大眾運輸工具會不會漲價？什麼時候拍板？"],["陳院長建仁：先講國道運輸，如果是巴士，大部分都燃油，所以沒有漲價的空間。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以客運不漲價？"],["陳院長建仁：對。第二個是臺鐵，臺鐵很早以前就說要調整票價，原因是臺鐵已經有29年的時間……"],["徐委員巧芯：這個我們清楚，臺鐵什麼時候會確定要漲價、漲多少錢……"],["陳院長建仁：臺鐵現在還在研議過程當中……"],["徐委員巧芯：審議大概在什麼時間點？國人可能會很希望知道。"],["陳院長建仁：他們還沒提出來。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們有確認大概在什麼時間？比如4月、5月、6月，他們會去做相關的審議、會拍板，時間點方面……"],["陳院長建仁：這是臺鐵公司……"],["王部長國材：因為他們現在公司化，事實上在初擬，通過董事會以後就會送交通費率審議委員會，所以可能還有一段時間，不是馬上。"],["徐委員巧芯：還有一段時間？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：再來就是高鐵的部分會漲價嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：高鐵也是一個公司。"],["徐委員巧芯：知道。"],["陳院長建仁：電的成本實際上對他們來說占比不高。高鐵去年的營運有蠻好的盈餘，我們當然是呼籲高鐵不要……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以不漲價的機會比較高？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：這是高鐵部分。再來我要特別跟你們討論的是有關捷運部分，因為電費占捷運成本非常高……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：臺北捷運占13%，高雄占14%，如果你覺得13%占整個營運成本不高，我尊重，但是我作為過去臺北市議員、臺北市的立委，我覺得電費占捷運成本13%，還有高雄占14%，對於捷運來說是相當大的壓力，所以我想請問，如果地方這邊呼籲希望中央能夠凍漲捷運電價，或者調漲以後給予電價優惠或補助，政院會同意嗎？態度是什麼？"],["陳院長建仁：委員你比我還清楚，現在在高雄或臺北，大部分的人都是用TPASS，而TPASS絕對不會漲價，而且TPASS一直要到……"],["徐委員巧芯：TPASS不會漲價我們知道，我是說單一票價的部分。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！TPASS不會漲價，而TPASS占了所有臺北捷運跟高雄捷運的最大部分，如果TPASS沒有漲價，而為了少數沒有用TPASS的人……"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那請問一下，我們在臺北……"],["陳院長建仁：北捷跟高捷要漲價，我覺得……"],["徐委員巧芯：瞭解了，臺北、桃園、高雄……"],["陳院長建仁：民眾會覺得很奇怪啦！"],["徐委員巧芯：這些捷運公司，如果在地方上，其實它是不分縣市，就是有捷運的地方政府，如果希望政府對於他們的捷運電費凍漲或予以補助，政院有相關的規劃嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：捷運是地方政府管理的，你講對了，捷運的費率是由地方政府決定，我剛才講過，因為大部分人搭的都是用TPASS，地方政府有這樣的數據，他要漲價，他沒有那個正當性……"],["徐委員巧芯：喔！我知道，我已經知道不漲價了，我是問說有沒有規劃對於捷運相關電費的補貼或是凍漲？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，目前沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，好，我清楚了。","接下來我想要回到NCC的問題，剛才主委談到所謂的「鳳凰雲」案件，你覺得這個哪有敗訴！好，我給你正名一下法律名詞，它不是敗訴，但是它叫做再審原告之訴駁回，也就是說，你們當時希望聲請包含再議等等是被駁回了，主委可不可以說明一下，你們被駁回的理由是什麼？你清楚嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上我們在認定一個個案要不要構成裁罰，在初審會有比如諮詢委員會，然後還有7個委員來作成那個討論，討論完的結果，當然後來法院並不支持我們認定要裁罰的部分，就是說這涉及到我們的標準、我們的認定方式，法院可能認為這個認定方式應該改善。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，如果你們現在在30天內有新事證可以聲請再議，請問目前對本案的態度，NCC會聲請再議嗎？還是接受這次被駁回的結果？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：關於這個再審，基本上法律的部分是可以再審，所以……"],["徐委員巧芯：你們還會繼續……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們會內部再溝通，可能應該就不會再提了。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們要內部溝通多久？大家對這個事情很想瞭解……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，委員，這是一個個案而已啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：我們這麼久才有一次在這裡詢問你的機會，如果你都說要帶回去討論，那下一次見到你也不知道什麼時候……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，我們是合議制……"],["陳院長建仁：合議制。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是我個人的問題……"],["徐委員巧芯：對，對，所以你們要大家共同討論完之後……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們要判斷說像這種類型的案件，以後會有……"],["徐委員巧芯：你講到重點了！你們是合議制，可是諮詢委員會16個人裡面，有12個人認為這個新聞沒有違法，只有4個人認為有新聞違法的問題，在決議發函要求改進的時候，你們還是罰人家40萬啊！你們不能說有爭議的時候，就說要帶回去討論，因為我們是合議制，結果呢？你想要罰人家的時候，上面法院寫得非常清楚，即便有12個委員認為沒有違法，也決定發函改進……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，利用這個機會，我可以跟你說明一下嗎？"],["徐委員巧芯：結果有沒有照罰？如果沒有照罰，會讓你說明……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：如果沒有照罰的話，你今天根本不用浪費人民的公帑，不斷的去打這個官司。來！請你說明。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上來講，這個諮詢會議，本來就叫做諮詢會議，在法定程序上，外部的委員所討論的部分，他們的意見要不要採納，最後還是有7個委員要去討論的問題……"],["徐委員巧芯：那就是白討論就對了……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，不是白討論，我們還是有討論問題……"],["徐委員巧芯：反正我想參考，覺得跟我的想法一致，我就參考，然後如果出狀況，就說那是諮詢委員給我們的意見……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們是7個委員去討論問題……"],["徐委員巧芯：如果覺得你的想法跟我不一樣，那這只是參考用的……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，你不能說……"],["徐委員巧芯：我不一定要聽你的意見，就是這個意思。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不，不，程序上本來就是這樣嘛！它本來叫諮詢會，諮詢會來講，如果大家認為這個合理……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你到現在還是認為當時NCC的處理方式，16個人裡面有12個諮詢委員認為沒有問題，然後他們決定要發函改進就好……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們這種情形，我們這種情形……"],["徐委員巧芯：你們卻去罰對方，主委，從你個人的角度來說，不要管到上一任，你覺得當時NCC的處理方式是正確，還是錯誤？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：程序上沒有問題，而且我們這種案子類型也有，只是案子不是很多，但既然這是7個委員共同討論出來的，這就是我們的決定。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，未來審查預算的時候，這是我們的決定，你們真的浪費太多的資源在打官司了……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有浪費的問題、沒有浪費……"],["徐委員巧芯：不斷的再審、不斷的對一個案子再打又打，上一任的主委……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，不斷的針對中天發言的是你們，中天只是一個案子、一家公司，我們監理的公司非常多，不是只有中天一家而已。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們濫打官司的也不只是針對中天，我只是舉這個個案跟你們討論啦！上一任主委他們編了多少的訴訟費？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個要去查一下。"],["徐委員巧芯：你編了多少訴訟費？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們訴訟費是有增加沒有錯啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：你知道你們增加了非常多倍嗎？所以……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員……"],["徐委員巧芯：這個議題我們就此打住……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們的救濟程序有改正過……"],["徐委員巧芯：本席接下來想要問一下數發部的部分，我們請部長。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為以後我們沒有經過行政院的訴願就直接訴訟了喔！"],["徐委員巧芯：謝謝，我們已經聽懂你的意思了好嗎？我們接下來請數發部。"],["主席：請數發部。"],["徐委員巧芯：院長，我記得上一次柯志恩委員問你覺得數發部做得怎樣的時候，你問他說股市上2萬點你不開心嗎？我個人沒什麼感覺，我沒有買股票，可是我很在意的是我們編列預算有沒有按照實際的單位數去編列。一般我們會認為政府部門裡面最常出國的可能會是僑委會，可是我們比較了數發部跟僑委會的出國項目、天數跟出國人數之後，發現數位發展部的出國比僑委會還厲害，出國總天數數發部329天，僑委會295天，出國人數也比僑委會多，總費用也比它來得多。於是我們就想進一步追查你們預算的編列到底合不合情理，問題可能就會在於浮報。","我們來看下一張投影片，我們針對亞洲的部分做了一個整理，光是亞洲部分，四趟當中有三趟安排的是商務艙，照理來說，這也代表是高階公務人員在出國，而且我們詳細看了之後，發現有很多費用其實有對不起來的情況。我們再看下一張投影片。我們直接把去的同一個國家拿出來比較，紅色的是舊金山，總共有三個，藍色是倫敦，另外還有綠色的是華盛頓。我們可以看到你去同一個國家，可是預算編列的標準根本不一樣，同一個國家、同一個城市每次的平均價格都不同，代表你的預算評估標準是不一樣的，跟數位發展部之前告訴我們說你們是按照公務體系去編列是不一樣的，可以說明一下為什麼會有這種情況嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：當然，因為無論是次長、司長或者署長出席，他按照我們報支費用的標準是坐不同的艙等，所以當然就會有不同的……"],["徐委員巧芯：這都一樣是商務艙，我們都精心幫你挑過了……"],["唐部長鳳：還有不同的季節跟不同的地區……"],["徐委員巧芯：你看我們列的是平均交通費的部分就都不一樣，你剛剛講到第二個問題了，你們在預算跟預估的價格上面實際落差是非常、非常大的。我們看下一張投影片，我們幫你都找出來了，以7月8日到11日你們預計要出國的時間來說，它的價差可說是非常的大。我們都講商務艙，到首爾網路上報價3萬3,000，你們編了9.6萬；到新加坡網路上報價3萬4,000，你們報的是7萬；到東京的商務艙報價也有很大的價差。這代表你們當時在預算編列的時候就編得過高了，有沒有管理上面的問題？"],["唐部長鳳：您挑的這些是沒有辦法改時間、沒有辦法退票的那一種價格，跟我們這種可以改時間的來比。但是我們實際上用的時候，如果有較低的價錢是按照實報實支來使用。"],["徐委員巧芯：我跟你講，我把各種的都查過了啦，不是你說的那樣子，實際上你們當初估的票價就是比較高，我把可以改票的也列進去了，還是一樣的狀況。不好意思，我很貼心的都替你想過了……"],["唐部長鳳：我們可以會後用書面來比較。"],["徐委員巧芯：再來還不只這樣，院長您可以看看你們的部長在整個預算編列的時候問題多大！下一張投影片也一樣，我們在3月6日跟3月15日的時候請數發部提供相關的資訊，數發部出席亞太網路資訊中心會議要去紐西蘭跟日本，可是它根本是在曼谷舉行的，而且在2月21日到3月1日就辦完了。結果數發部不知道，還提供給我們資料說你們要去泰國，結果根本已經辦完了！這根本和你們說要去日本是完全不一樣的，請問為什麼會有數發部連自己要去哪個國家都沒有辦法掌握的情況？"],["唐部長鳳：APNIC有相當多相關會議，這個部分我們是不是會後用書面來提供給委員？"],["徐委員巧芯：你看你們答不出來的時候就說會後，我時間也不夠了啦……"],["陳院長建仁：這個太細了啦！"],["徐委員巧芯：院長，請你評估一下好不好？不是太細，這是已經去完的，然後我們問他們去了哪裡，結果他們提供給我們的資料是錯誤的，代表他們完全沒有掌握數發部自己編了這麼多錢出國去了哪兒。","院長，最後一點時間可不可以說明一下，我剛剛提到數發部的這些問題，您同意嗎？您覺得合理嗎？有沒有需要修正的空間、檢討的必要性？"],["陳院長建仁：我想他們提供的資料應該更詳細，讓委員能夠瞭解。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是詳細，是很詳細，但是是錯的，好嗎？"],["主席：謝謝徐委員巧芯的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第17號陳委員冠廷質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1131401_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":0.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.24846875,"end":15.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.67409375,"end":17.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.54221875,"end":23.200343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23.48721875,"end":44.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.766593750000006,"end":47.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.90159375,"end":45.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":46.63971875,"end":48.360968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.54659375,"end":55.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.86284375,"end":49.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.87971875,"end":51.212843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":51.212843750000005,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.304718750000006,"end":58.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.30034375,"end":61.439093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.439093750000005,"end":63.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":61.91159375,"end":62.99159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":63.80159375,"end":65.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.40909375,"end":64.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.42596875000001,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.73784375000001,"end":66.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.10909375,"end":67.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":67.12596875,"end":67.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":68.49284375,"end":74.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.29784375,"end":75.85034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.51721875,"end":106.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.95096875,"end":132.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.30971875,"end":140.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.16534375,"end":143.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.62909375,"end":148.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":144.14346875,"end":147.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":148.41284375,"end":152.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":153.00284375,"end":168.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.94784375,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.75659375,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.51159375,"end":169.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":170.21534375000002,"end":193.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.27409375000002,"end":175.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.58721875,"end":197.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":197.31659375,"end":198.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.41346875000002,"end":208.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.38721875000002,"end":207.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":207.67784375000002,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.62284375000002,"end":244.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.99409375000002,"end":214.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.93409375000002,"end":216.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.27534375000002,"end":219.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.49034375000002,"end":219.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.22471875000002,"end":255.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":255.72096875000003,"end":257.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.10909375,"end":256.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.07096875,"end":266.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":266.63909375000003,"end":270.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.17909375,"end":267.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.20846875,"end":268.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.38971875000004,"end":272.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":270.79034375000003,"end":274.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.76034375,"end":275.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":276.07221875,"end":285.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.00784375,"end":294.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.75284375,"end":297.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":296.87909375000004,"end":300.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.37221875,"end":300.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.38909375000003,"end":303.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":303.00471875,"end":303.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":303.17346875000004,"end":303.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.42659375,"end":318.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":310.09221875000003,"end":310.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":315.47534375000004,"end":316.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":317.14596875,"end":319.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.84596875,"end":320.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":320.09909375,"end":358.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.64221875000004,"e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高鐵部分那再來我要特別跟你們討論的是有關於捷運喔因為捷運電費站捷運的成本非常的高"},{"start":328.16,"end":328.74,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":348.183,"end":351.705,"text":"委員你比我還清楚現在大部分在高雄或者是在臺北大家用那個TPAS"},{"start":365.325,"end":385.16,"text":"那T-PASS絕對不會漲價,而且T-PASS一直要到...T-PASS不會漲價我們知道,我們是說單一票價的部分。對啊,那這T-PASS不會漲價的話,T-PASS占了所有的台北捷運跟高雄捷運的最大的部分。那如果T-PASS沒有漲價的時候,那為了那個少數沒有用T-PASS的人,"},{"start":385.54,"end":403.526,"text":"那請問一下我們在臺北,我覺得民眾會覺得很奇怪啦。這一些捷運公司如果說在地方上面,它其實不分縣市啦,有捷運的地方政府希望說政府對於他們的捷運電費動漲或補助的部分,政院有相關的規劃嗎?"},{"start":406.109,"end":420.701,"text":"徐巧芯是地方政府管理講對了,但捷運的費率呢是由地方政府來決定。那我剛才講過因為大部分搭的都是用TPAS那地方政府有這樣的一個數據他要漲價他沒有那個"},{"start":422.068,"end":423.55,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":438.504,"end":457.717,"text":"您是覺得說呢這個哪有敗訴喔那這個呢好我給你證明一下法律名詞它不是敗訴但是呢它叫做再審原告之訴駁回也就是說你們當時希望申請包含是在意等等的被駁回了我想問一下主委可不可以說明一下你們被駁回的理由是什麼您清楚嗎"},{"start":468.924,"end":494.315,"text":"那討論完的結果來講當然後來法院並不支持我們這個認定要採訪的部分就是說這個是涉及說我們的標準我們的認定的方式法院可能他認為他的認定方式應該改善。那麼呢你們現在如果有30天有新事證可以申請在役請問目前對本案的態度NCC這裡會申請在役嗎還是接受這一次被迫回的結果在審就是說基本上這法律的部分我們整理在審嗎"},{"start":494.735,"end":495.456,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":512.878,"end":513.819,"text":"像這種類型的案件以後我會了解。"},{"start":528.692,"end":554.33,"text":"你們還是罰人家40萬啊。你們不能說有爭議的時候要帶回去討論因為我們是要合一致。結果呢你想要罰人家的時候即便上面法院寫得非常的清楚12個委員認為沒有違法也決定發函改進。結果有沒有造罰?如果沒有造罰的話你今天根本不用浪費人民的公帑不斷的去打這個官司。來請你說明。"},{"start":555.211,"end":579.706,"text":"基本上來講這個諮詢會議來講的話本來它叫做諮詢會議我們在法定程序上外部的委員所討論的這個部分他的意見要不要採納最後還是七個委員要去討論的問題反正我想參考你們覺得跟我的想法一致我就參考然後如果出狀況就是說那是諮詢委員給我們的意見那如果說我覺得你的想法跟我不一樣因為這只是參考用的我不一定要聽"},{"start":579.906,"end":583.268,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧"},{"start":609.261,"end":609.621,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":626.033,"end":639.82,"text":"不斷的針對中天發言的是你們,中天只是一個案子和一家公司,我們監理的公司非常多,不是只有中天一家而已。因為你們論壇官司的也不只針對中天,我只是舉這個個案跟你討論啦,上一任的主委他們編了多少的訴訟費?"},{"start":641.311,"end":642.792,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":662.31,"end":676.158,"text":"嗯,院長我記得上一次有柯智恩委員問你說覺得速發部這個做得怎樣的時候你問他說呢欸股市兩萬點你不開心嗎我個人沒什麼感覺我沒有買股票可是我很在意的是我們編列預算有沒有按照實際的單位數去編列喔"},{"start":678.839,"end":695.927,"text":"我們一般會想說我們政府部門裡面最常出國的可能會是僑委會可是我們卻比較了術發部跟僑委會的這個出國的項目天數跟出國人數之後發現數位發展部的出國比僑委會還厲害出國總天數術發部329天僑委會295天出國人數也比僑委會多總費用也比他來的多"},{"start":703.411,"end":724.27,"text":"那再來我們就想進一步的來追查說你們在這個預算的編列到底合不合情理問題可能就會在於福報看下一張投影片我們針對亞洲的部分做了一個整理喔光是亞洲部分呢四趟有三趟安排的是商務艙照理來說這也代表說是高階公務人員在出國"},{"start":725.051,"end":752.211,"text":"而且這個我們去詳細看之後很多的費用其實有對不起來的情況我們看下一張投影片我們直接把去的同一個國家拿出來比較紅色的是舊金山三個然後藍色是倫敦然後還有綠色是華盛頓你可以看到的是你去同一個國家可是預算編列的標準根本不一樣同一個國家同一個城市每次的平均價格都不同"},{"start":752.671,"end":757.812,"text":"當然,因為無論是次長或者司長或者署長出席,他按照我們的這個報紙費用的標準,他是做不同的艙等,所以當然就會有不同的...這都是一樣的商務艙,我們都幫你挑過了。"},{"start":777.916,"end":780.858,"text":"您剛講到第二個問題了。你們在預算跟預估的價格上面實際落差是非常非常大的。"},{"start":795.626,"end":824.093,"text":"我們看下一張投影片我們幫你都找出來了以7月8號到11號也就是你們要預計出國的時間來說它的價差可以說是非常的大首爾商務艙我們都講商務艙網路上報價3萬3你們編了9點6萬新加坡網上3萬4你們報的是7萬東京的部分的商務艙的報價也有很大的價差這代表你們當時在預算編列的時候就編的過高了有沒有管理上面的問題"},{"start":825.093,"end":848.361,"text":"您挑的這個是沒有辦法改時間沒有辦法退票的那種價格然後跟我們這種可以改時間的來比但是我們實際上用的時候如果有較低的價錢是按照時報時值來使用我都把各種的都查過了啦不是你說的那樣子實際上你們當初估的票價就是比較高我把可以改票的也列進去了還是一樣的狀況不好意思我很貼心的都替你想過了"},{"start":849.981,"end":870.143,"text":"還有再來還不只這樣部長您院長您可以看看你們的部長在整個預算編列的時候問題多大下一張投影片一樣我們在3月6號跟3月15號的時候請速發部提供相關的資訊速發部出席這個亞太網路資訊中心的會議要去紐西蘭跟日本可是他根本是在曼谷舉行的"},{"start":870.563,"end":889,"text":"在2月21日到3月1日就辦完了。訴發部不知道還提供給我們資料說你們要去泰國。結果根本已經辦完了。根本就要說要去日本。完全不一樣的。所以請問為什麼你們會有訴發部連自己要去哪個國家都沒有辦法掌握的情況。"},{"start":890.209,"end":918.418,"text":"APNIC有相當多相關會議喔那這個部分我們是不是會後用書面來提供這個問題?你看你們答不出來的時候做做會口我時間也不夠了啦院長我請你評估一下好不好不是太細是已經去完的然後我們問你去了哪裡他們提供給我們的是錯誤的代表他們完全沒有掌握自己速發布編了這麼多錢出國去了哪院長最後一點時間可以說明一下我剛剛所提到的剛才速發布的這些問題您同意嗎?您覺得合理嗎?"},{"start":919.538,"end":923.24,"text":"有沒有需要修正的空間?檢討的必要性?"}]}},{"id":"150294","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150294","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e451b47777d567f09fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6a07f1916115776545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"15:33:50 - 15:49:25","影片長度":"00:15:35","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":935,"end_time":"2024-03-22T15:49:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T15:33:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":312,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（15時33分）韓院長，我請陳建仁院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：葉委員午安。"],["葉委員元之：院長好。今天早上賴清德副總統去參觀無人機國家隊，看到我們有一個無人機可以搭載輕用的、比較小型的飛彈，但是看到螺旋槳的馬達是Made in China，院長知道這個事嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我知道，不過這個不用大驚小怪……"],["葉委員元之：院長覺得可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：因為它還在測試的過程當中，而且那一種螺旋槳（propeller）現在都有國產的部分……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，測試的階段……"],["陳院長建仁：所以我們已經……"],["葉委員元之：臺灣做不出這個馬達嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，可以做出來，但是初期的產量不大……"],["葉委員元之：可以做出來為什麼不用臺灣做的？"],["陳院長建仁：現在已經做得出來了。"],["葉委員元之：做出來了為什麼要用Made in China？"],["陳院長建仁：它是最早期測試它自己裝的。這個沒有什麼，不值得大驚小怪啦……"],["葉委員元之：因為這個是無人機國家隊，如果說您的態度是這樣，難怪廠商會這樣嘛！理論上來講……"],["陳院長建仁：不是，我們不是這樣講。"],["葉委員元之：民進黨政府一直宣傳中國大陸的東西很可怕，有資安問題，然後再一大堆有的沒的……"],["陳院長建仁：確實啊！"],["葉委員元之：現在我們的馬達居然跟他們買！第一個扶植他們的產業，然後第二個我們也做得出來，為什麼不自己做？為什麼不用自己的……"],["陳院長建仁：有啊！現在已經可以自己做了。"],["葉委員元之：第三、網路上已經酸：「對啦！這個叫做中國國家無人機啦！」好不好？有臺灣的東西……"],["陳院長建仁：這樣酸來酸去，國家的無人機沒有辦法發展……"],["葉委員元之：為什麼會酸，是因為你沒做好才會被酸……"],["陳院長建仁：我想不需要這樣說話……"],["葉委員元之：院長，如果說你還是這樣的態度，其實這個東西，你的回答很簡單，你只要講「我們會要求廠商，以後馬達也要用臺灣的」就好了，但你的態度是無所謂，那我反而會比較緊張，未來會出現一連串這個狀況，就是我們軍用的東西都會用到大陸的東西，因為都是測試階段，那未來就是兩岸一起發展軍事產業了……"],["陳院長建仁：這樣酸言酸語沒有意思啦……"],["葉委員元之：但是這個只是因為網路的話題，我跟你問一下。","接下來我來問一下大家關心的詐騙的議題，有一個名人叫做謝金河，他在抱怨，在臉書上或者是在YT都會看到有人冒用他的名字成立投資社，騙大家加入投資社被詐騙，部長，您知道嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：知道。"],["葉委員元之：右邊這是我自己看到的，所以有看到我的YT「葉元之·原汁原味」，我在我的YT看到的，現在我覺得這個事情比較離譜的是，謝金河說他自己去跟臉書檢舉或平台檢舉，臉書是不理他的，除了不理他之外，謝金河還說他有跟打詐小組連線過，結果居然沒作用！這個我就不問院長了，我問部長，部長，他有跟你們聯絡過嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：這個打詐小組應該是165，不過回答委員的問題，我們現在在推動電子簽章法的修法，只要立法院三讀通過，我們就有法律依據……"],["葉委員元之：不要扯電子簽章法……"],["唐部長鳳：讓他上架之前，如果……"],["葉委員元之：我現在就問你，他有沒有跟你聯絡？"],["唐部長鳳：那個是165那邊，但我們在推動……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，有沒有聯絡嘛？你回答不出來就叫別人回答嘛！有沒有聯絡嘛？"],["唐部長鳳：就不能刊謝金河的廣告。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，你講話……"],["葉委員元之：院長，我的問題很簡單，就是他如果有跟打詐小組聯絡，但是他說沒有作用，這句話是讓我覺得比較訝異，就是說一般的民眾包括謝金河是名人喔……"],["陳院長建仁：不是沒有作用，他講作用似乎不大，不要擴大他講的話。"],["葉委員元之：院長，我跟你講我們在討論事情，因為他是一個名人……"],["陳院長建仁：他有……"],["葉委員元之：院長，等一下！等一下！不用緊張，我都還沒有開始講……"],["陳院長建仁：好，你要我講的時候你再說。"],["葉委員元之：我的意思是他是個名人，他去檢舉，第一、平台不理他，第二、他跟打詐小組聯絡，他都說作用不大，那一般小老百姓去聯繫打詐小組，可能打詐小組更不會理了。我現在想要問部長，我就問唐鳳部長，如果有人跟數發部反映，他在網路上被冒名，被認為有詐騙的行為，找數發部，數發部能不能幫一般民眾去跟平台講說這個是詐騙，請你趕快下架，能夠做到嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：本來就有啊！"],["唐部長鳳：我們有幫忙165建立一個165往臉書或Google……"],["葉委員元之：他會不會理你？"],["唐部長鳳：通常現在兩個小時之內就會移下來，問題是移下來的時候，他換一個帳號又登上來。"],["葉委員元之：所以你跟他講，兩個小時他就移掉？"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！"],["唐部長鳳：通常是這樣。"],["葉委員元之：那為什麼他說作用不大？"],["唐部長鳳：他所謂的作用不大就是他換個人頭的名字又po一個。"],["葉委員元之：確定嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：我滿確定的。"],["葉委員元之：確定，所以，我覺得第一個，因為過去我們的服務團隊也有跟數發部聯繫過，是幫一般的民眾請數發部去檢舉，當時得到的消息是，他們只能處理名人的部分，一般民眾不可能處理……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有這回事。"],["唐部長鳳：165檢舉……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，你就在這邊宣布，以後大家只要看到網路上有冒名投資或什麼，請跟數發部或打詐小組聯繫，兩個小時就會消失，好不好？"],["唐部長鳳：就是165這個網站，按檢舉就可以了。"],["葉委員元之：對，你就承諾嘛！我相信你可以解決很多問題啦。","再來就是說……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我講一下，不能夠解決很多問題，原因在哪裡？剛才你沒有注意聽，唐鳳部長講得很清楚，他現在下架的是這一個帳號，可是詐騙集團馬上利用其他的帳號上來……"],["葉委員元之：我知道！我知道……"],["陳院長建仁：所以你要一個一個檢舉……"],["葉委員元之：但是有比沒有好嘛！你也要增加他的困難度……"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！對啊！有啊！現在是有。"],["葉委員元之：不要讓他一個帳號一直在使用嘛！很多人就認為作用不大，那也就懶得講了。現在你就宣示，只要跟數發部說，數發部有這個決心好好去處理，當然大家檢舉的就多了嘛！我覺得一定有作用啦！而且我是建議數發部……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，這個效果不大啦！我們現在……"],["葉委員元之：效果不大還是要做啦！部長、院長……"],["陳院長建仁：不，我們說的是……"],["葉委員元之：如果每個事情……"],["陳院長建仁：更有效果的方法就是源頭管理……"],["葉委員元之：都要做啦……"],["陳院長建仁：源頭管理就是電子簽章法，需要電子簽章法在大院……"],["葉委員元之：都要做……"],["陳院長建仁：趕快讓它通過。"],["葉委員元之：都要做……"],["陳院長建仁：電子簽章法更有效。"],["葉委員元之：你要做電子簽章法，你也要平臺同意跟你合作嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：當然。"],["葉委員元之：它不理你的話，你也沒辦法，所以這個聯繫一定要做。我覺得你以後只要有人檢舉就趕快去做，也可以測試它一下看有沒有誠意，好不好？","接下來，我要問另外的也是詐騙，但是跟NCC比較有關係，這個應該也是系統的問題。去年有委員講如果警察接收到報案，有人被詐騙，他要去凍結那個警示帳戶的時候都是用傳真的嘛！而警察傳真到金融機構會衍生很多問題，比如卡紙，比如他傳真用手寫的，萬一寫錯的話會有別的帳戶被凍結。或者是銀行端收到傳真紙，有時候回撥警局找不到人，有很多問題，那就會錯失打詐的第一時間。我不知道這個院長後來有解決嗎？這是去年5月的時候有委員提出來的。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員回答一下，這個基本上是金管會跟內政部刑事警察局這邊我們的聯繫工作，我們打詐是聯防，每個部會、每個階段都有不同的機關去聯防。"],["葉委員元之：對，沒關係，你如果不知道就說不知道，好不好？你不知道嘛？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為這是細節的部分……"],["葉委員元之：因為不是你啦！你是NCC，不是你。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：嗯。"],["葉委員元之：那院長知道嗎？因為這個東西當時警察一直在抱怨，就是他們用傳真，其實時間上也耽擱了，有的時候就是傳過去隔了好幾個小時之後銀行才收到，所以這幾個小時內錢就被領走了。我不知道這個改善了沒？"],["陳院長建仁：這個有沒有改，是不是這個個案，委員，我不清楚，但是去年我們在銀行阻詐的部分，就阻詐金額就到了七十幾億的錢……"],["葉委員元之：沒有啦！院長，我們就事論事……"],["陳院長建仁：讓它不會被領走。"],["葉委員元之：我都點問題出來了……"],["陳院長建仁：不，這個問題就是說……"],["葉委員元之：你都在做政令宣導！我的問題就是這個問題解決了沒嘛……"],["陳院長建仁：你現在不想聽我的成果在哪裡……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係，院長你不知道嘛？"],["陳院長建仁：我……"],["葉委員元之：那我跟你講，其實現在警政署有開發一個系統叫「警示帳戶聯防通報子系統」，這個系統就在於，警局以後就不要用傳真了，你們就輸入那個系統就好，這樣就直接連線。有這個系統，我也跟院長講一下，在你的院下面的部會有這個系統存在。但是我現在要告訴你，這個系統也是很爛，為什麼？因為登打系統完成之後、系統輸入，還是要傳真啦！這個是我最新調到的它的通報流程，還是要傳真！所以搞到警察跟金融人員更麻煩！更麻煩，要做兩次工。","今天為什麼我會在這個地方提出來，因為唐鳳部長、IT大臣，這個這麼厲害的網路神人，你應該發揮你的功能……"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["葉委員元之：幫這些機關做系統……"],["唐部長鳳：那個……"],["葉委員元之：好不好？不要弄一些點、線、面的，這是給你的期許……"],["唐部長鳳：電子文件……"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝……"],["唐部長鳳：電子文件跟送達及數位簽章，也是在電子簽章法……"],["葉委員元之：因為我今天時間比較有限，下一頁。"],["唐部長鳳：也是要電子簽章法通過。"],["陳院長建仁：你沒有給他講話的機會。"],["葉委員元之：你講一講就是電子簽章法，我講的問題那麼具體，你都是回電子簽章法……"],["唐部長鳳：您剛剛講的就是電子文件跟送達的效力問題。"],["葉委員元之：這是文不對題嘛！再來，詐騙跟電信有關，我們來看二類電信，二類電信最主要是什麼問題？我想問一下，主委，現在二類電信一般是可以跟我們一類電信租到多少門號？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：現在沒有二類電信這個名詞，因為我們電信法落日以後，現在的電信管理法，MVNO這個部分是採所謂自願登記的方法，我們要區分大概是個人申請還是企業客戶，是這樣子處理。"],["葉委員元之：那可以申請多少門號？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：門號，比如企業客戶，原則上是依照我們的指引，以它有多少員工就有員工的……"],["葉委員元之：那現在海峽電信一次可以申請幾十萬門號的狀況已經沒有了？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為那是以前發生的事，現在我們落實……"],["葉委員元之：現在已經沒有了？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們現在落實KYC的這種情況來講，現在不會出現海峽電信的問題。"],["葉委員元之：對，我是說一次可以跟一類電信租多少門號，一般的企業可以租多少？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：一般企業，比如你的企業裡面只有50個人，原則上大概是這樣的門號去處理嘛！那如果你要……"],["葉委員元之：所以不會再出現……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果你要更多的……"],["葉委員元之：過去……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個時候就要落實KYC去處理，就是為什麼需要這麼多門號。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，但現在還是有類似的，12家電信公司嘛！這是在你們網站上看到的，不然這些不是第二類電信喔？這是你NCC的網站耶！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個到112年6月，就是這整個……"],["葉委員元之：所以後來……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為它如果沒有……"],["葉委員元之：這12家現在已經沒有了？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有來登記的就變成所謂MVNO業者，如果沒來登記就是一般的企業用戶。"],["葉委員元之：對，好，那我就針對這幾家業者嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["葉委員元之：所以他們還是可以跟一類電信租門號？可以租到50萬戶嘛？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：它用企業客戶的名稱，可以跟中華電信等等這些租門號。"],["葉委員元之：對啦，我的問題是這樣，它跟一類電信業者租了50萬份門號，然後它再分租出去。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是以前了，現在不可能……"],["葉委員元之：現在不能分租了？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是，現在不可能有50萬門號這種程度。"],["葉委員元之：那它能不能分租出去？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果以企業客戶來講，比如說有些東西它可以批……"],["葉委員元之：它可以批出去嘛！我跟你講一個檢察官現在抱怨的東西，主委，我認為你應該去修正一下。比如說，他分租出去1,000個門號，那1,000個門號裡面可能有100個門號已經被舉報為詐騙門號了，你覺得這個業者會不會主動把剩下那900個門號直接停掉？會不會？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以我們這個時候就要停，比如說依照KYC……"],["葉委員元之：會不會？"],["陳院長建仁：你聽他講。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果電信這樣的話，我們會要求電信，你的企業客戶出現異常，你應該把它停止，而且要把門號收回。"],["葉委員元之：問題是現在就沒有嘛！你有要求，現在就沒有嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們現在落實KYC就是這樣的處理方法。"],["葉委員元之：有落實，但是就是沒有，所以詐騙才會那麼多。我現在是把問題講給你們聽，我覺得我們跟你們詢答很累，我都把問題跟你們講，但你們都好像覺得說很怕被挑戰，所以就要一直解釋一些文不對題的東西。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是、不是，我們是解釋說我們的做法……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係啦！NCC主委，請教一下，今天中天是不是又再次勝訴了，對吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，那是一個再審的問題而已，那個本來就……"],["葉委員元之：再審嘛！所以在那一審勝訴了嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，那是同一個案子……"],["葉委員元之：主委，你一直說你NCC有14次勝訴，對吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！沒錯。"],["葉委員元之：然後中天只有2次勝訴。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有錯啊！"],["葉委員元之：請問一下，14次勝訴是不是包括很多你裁罰出去而中天沒有訴訟的部分？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！所以我們說……"],["葉委員元之：這個也算勝訴？拜託！主委，什麼叫勝訴……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：表示說當事人……"],["葉委員元之：勝訴是說，我跟你……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們新聞稿是寫，勝訴後處分確定。"],["葉委員元之：主委，等一下，勝訴的意思是，如果說我去訴訟了，你跟我打官司，你贏了，這叫勝訴嘛！還有說你裁罰我，我不去打官司，然後你說你勝訴，那你每一次開出去的裁決單都是一次勝訴，這太離譜了啦……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，這26件，這是中天一直在……"],["葉委員元之：你們不要用話術……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，話術是中天自己說，這才是話術……"],["葉委員元之：實際上你們在打官司，不管是有沒有確定，在好幾審，你們就是一直連敗……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上來講，26個案件裡面，我們是14件勝訴，這是確定的」，它只勝2件而已啦……"],["葉委員元之：而且主委，我問你另外一件事情……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：話術是媒體自己講的，成敗就是以確定為準。"],["葉委員元之：最新的，前兩天是不是有一個鳳凰雲？你們又敗訴了，在那一庭。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有！那是再審的問題……"],["葉委員元之：那一庭是不是又敗訴了？又敗訴了嘛！你那一庭又敗訴了……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，你不瞭解訴訟程序，訴訟成敗就是以確定為準。"],["葉委員元之：那是確定，我現在講的是進行中的……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：訴訟就是這樣，你可以去法院問，訴訟程序就是以確定為準。"],["葉委員元之：我現在講的是進行中的。不要再耽誤了啦！訴訟費是你出嗎？如果那一庭是你出的話……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那一個案件我們確定輸，沒有錯啊！那是拆成兩個案子……"],["葉委員元之：你每一庭都是納稅人出錢啦！而且我跟你請教，鳳凰雲那個事情，你今天早上跟記者說，那個是前朝的事。你有這樣講嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有前朝的事，那是記者講……"],["葉委員元之：你沒有說是前朝的事？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我說那是以前我們委員會做成的決定嘛！"],["葉委員元之：你就說前朝的事情，你推給了前朝，但是每次上訴都是你的決定……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我沒說前朝的事情，那是記者自己的講法喔！委員，不是我講的話，不能塞在我嘴巴裡面喔！"],["葉委員元之：所以你沒有擔當嘛！你推給前朝，但是每次上訴都是你的決定。我請教一下，如果你推給……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有這個問題，我們說委員會本來就是合議制嘛！"],["葉委員元之：我不是跟你辯論。不好意思，主席，我沒有在跟他辯論。我已經讓你一直講了，但是我有問問題你再回答，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：可以。"],["主席：時間暫停，葉委員元之，我幫你時間暫停，現在我們把時間暫停。","好，請繼續。"],["葉委員元之：鳳凰雲的部分，今天早上記者訪問你時，你是說那個是前朝的事，為什麼？因為當時……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我沒有說前朝的事……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，我還沒有請你回答。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：你的用語我就不懂……"],["葉委員元之：等一下、等一下，等一下給你時間講，你再反駁嘛！那時候你講的是，因為那個東西是前面前朝的規定，為什麼你要推給前朝？因為當時的委員絕大多數是說不要裁罰，可是最後裁罰了，所以記者就問你說，怎麼會這樣？你說，那是前朝的決定。好，前朝的決定，代表說你也覺得有點理虧，所以你才會說是前朝的決定。請問一下，每一次每一庭敗訴之後，你要不要上訴是不是你的決定？是你的決定嘛！所以實際上你也認為鳳凰雲這個事情，如果是你的話，不管是前朝、現朝，你就是會這樣裁決啊！如果到時候輸的話，你要不要負責？因為現在NCC的問題是，你們一直在凹……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有在凹。"],["葉委員元之：明明就是每次一直輸、一直輸……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：什麼叫一直輸？如果輸，怎麼會案子……"],["葉委員元之：政府機關訴訟要輸很不容易啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦！我們基本上……"],["葉委員元之：你已經確定2件，很不容易了！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，二十幾個案子……"],["葉委員元之：主委，我跟你講啦！如果你打詐的決心有跟你關電視台的決心一樣那麼強的話，臺灣詐騙會少很多啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不予換照不是只有裁罰的問題而已啦！"],["葉委員元之：剛剛講到打詐的時候，就說我們已經做很好了……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，你到底瞭不瞭解這個案子？有沒有看過嘛？"],["葉委員元之：然後講到關電視台的時候，就講一大堆，說沒有，我們勝訴啊！好像關電視台關得理所當然。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是理所當然，是依法處理啦！"],["葉委員元之：理所當然。"],["主席：謝謝葉委員元之的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第16位徐委員巧芯質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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China的?"},{"start":56.721,"end":64.691,"text":"這都是最早期測試他自己裝的阿,這是這個沒有什麼,這不值得大家對,因為沒有說您的態度會這樣,難怪廠商會這樣嘛,理論上來講,我們民進黨政府一直宣傳說中國大陸的東西很可怕,有資安問題,然後在一大堆有的沒的,"},{"start":75.525,"end":104.769,"text":"現在我們的馬達居然跟他們買第一個扶植他們的產業然後第二個我們也做得出來為什麼不自己做為什麼不用自己的第三這個網路上已經酸對啦這個叫做中國國家無人機啦好不好有台灣的東西這樣酸來酸去喔國家的無人機為什麼會酸是因為你沒做好才會被酸啊因為如果說你還是這樣的態度其實這個東西你的回答其實很簡單你只要講說我們會要求廠商以後馬達也要用台灣的其實就好了"},{"start":105.289,"end":131.576,"text":"那你的態度是說無所謂那我百分之百比較緊張未來會出現一連串這個狀況就是我們的軍用的東西都會用到大陸的東西因為都是測試階段那未來就是兩岸一起發展軍事產業了啦好不好那但是這個是因為網路的話題我跟你問一下來接下來我來問一下這個其他大家關心的這個詐騙的議題那有一個名人叫做謝金河"},{"start":132.416,"end":158.038,"text":"謝金河他在抱怨他說在他自己的臉書在臉書上或者是在YT什麼都會看到有人冒用他的名字就是說成立投資社然後然後就騙大家就加入投資社被詐騙嘛因為我看到那個部長也上來部長你已經知道嗎?知道就知道這個右邊這個是我自己看到的所以我看到我的YT葉元之、元之、元偉跳在我的YT看到"},{"start":158.82,"end":172.625,"text":"那現在我覺得這個事情比較離譜的是謝金河說他自己去跟臉書檢舉或平台檢舉臉書是不理他的那除了謝金河不理他之外我們可以看到謝金河說他有跟打詐小組連線過"},{"start":174.582,"end":177.404,"text":"這個打詐小組應該是165不過回答委員的問題我們現在在推動電子簽章法的修法只要立法院三度通過我們這個法律的依據"},{"start":191.857,"end":214.499,"text":"我現在就問你說有沒有跟你聯絡?有沒有跟你聯絡?那個是165那邊,但我們在推動是...沒關係有沒有聯絡嘛,那你回答不出來就叫別人回答嘛,有沒有聯絡嘛。就不能夠看謝金河的廣告。院長,我的問題很簡單喔,就是說他如果說有跟打詐小組聯絡,但是你們他說沒有作用,這個這句話是讓我覺得比較訝異的。就是說一般的民眾,包括謝金河都是名人喔。"},{"start":216.637,"end":230.229,"text":"他講的作用似乎不大不要擴大他講的院長我跟你講我們是討論事情因為他是一個名人他如果都覺得作用等一下等一下不用緊張還沒有開始講"},{"start":231.03,"end":232.551,"text":"我現在想要問部長,我就問唐鳳部長,請教一下"},{"start":251.957,"end":265.481,"text":"如果是有人跟速發部反映說他被冒名在網路上做被認為有詐騙行為,被冒名了,找速發部,速發部能不能幫我們的一般的民眾去跟平台講說你這個是詐騙請你趕快下架,能做到嗎?"},{"start":267.742,"end":295.847,"text":"我們有幫忙165建立一個165往臉書或是Google...他會不會理你?他會不會理你?通常現在兩個小時之內就會移下來,但是問題是移下來的時候他換一個帳號又登上來。所以你跟他講兩個小時他就移掉?對啊。通常是這樣。那為什麼他說作用不大?他所謂的作用不大就是他換個人頭的名字然後又PO一個。你沒有注意力嗎?我蠻確定的。確定?那所以我第一個我覺得第一個就是說因為過去我們也有我們服務團隊有跟蘇阿布聯繫過是幫一般的民眾"},{"start":297.18,"end":318.685,"text":"請蘇巴布去檢舉。那當時得到的消息是說,他們只能處理民員的部分,一般民眾的部分。沒關係,你就在這邊宣布,就是說以後大家只要看到網路上有冒名、投資或什麼,請跟蘇巴布或打造小組聯繫。兩個小時就會消失。就是165這個網站,按檢舉就可以了。你就說這個承諾嘛,我相信你可以解決很多問題啦。"},{"start":319.585,"end":346.887,"text":"然後再來就是說我講一下不能夠解決很多問題原因在哪裡就像剛才你剛才沒有注意聽唐鳳部長他講得很清楚他現在下架是這一個號碼帳號下架可是他馬上利用其他的帳號在上來所以你要一個一個檢舉有比沒有好嘛你也要增加他的可能度你不能讓他一個帳號一直在使用嘛那很多人就認為說喔作用不大那我也懶得講了"},{"start":347.948,"end":374.671,"text":"現在你就宣誓說只要跟速發部說速發部有這個決心好好去處理那當然大家檢舉也就多了嘛那我覺得詐騙集團也我覺得一定會有作用啦而且我是建議就是說速發部跟我們現在要做啦不是不是我不是講更有效果的方法就是源頭管理都要做啦都要做啦都要電子簽章法在大院都要做都要做讓他通過啦"},{"start":375.271,"end":375.852,"text":"這是去年的時候"},{"start":397.435,"end":409.382,"text":"有委員啊,大概,欸這個應該也是系統的問題啊,就是去年有委員的時候講啊,如果警察有被,有接受到報案,然後有人被詐騙,他要去凍結那個警視帳戶的時候都是用傳真的嘛。"},{"start":409.861,"end":435.21,"text":"那警察傳真到金融機構會衍生很多問題比如說卡紙啊比如說他傳真因為手寫啊手寫萬一寫錯的話會有別的帳戶被凍結啊或者是這個銀行端收到傳真紙有時候回撥警局找不到人啊很多問題那這個就會錯失打詐的這個第一時間嘛我不知道後來院長這個後來有去解決嗎這是去年5月的時候有委員提出來的"},{"start":436.974,"end":466.486,"text":"各位回答一下這個基本上來講是經管會跟內政部我們刑事警察局這邊我們聯繫工作我們打造基本上是聯防每個部位每個階段都有不同的機關對對對沒關係啊你如果不知道你就都不知道好不好你不知道嘛因為執行 因為不是你啦因為你在NCC不是你那院長你知道嗎因為這個東西當時警察一直在抱怨就是說他們用傳真其實時間上也耽擱了有的時候就是傳過去隔了好幾個小時之後那個銀行才收到所以這幾個小時錢就被領走了其實"},{"start":467.066,"end":494.724,"text":"蘇建,我不知道說這個改善了沒?這一個有沒有改,是不是這個個案,這個委員我不清楚。但是在去年齁,我們在這一個銀行這個主詐的這個部分齁,就主詐的這個金額呢,就到了70幾億的錢。沒有啦,欸,院長我們就是問事喔,我都點問題出來,你都在跟我,你都在說這個政令宣導。我的問題就是說這個問題解決了沒嘛?這問題解決了沒?好沒關係,院長你不知道齁,那我跟你講齁,"},{"start":495.624,"end":513.613,"text":"其實現在警政署他們有開發一個系統叫警視帳戶聯防通報制系統這個系統就是說警局以後你們就不要用傳真了你們就輸入那個系統就好了這樣就直接連線了有這個系統我也跟院長講一下在你的院下面的部會有這個系統存在但是我現在要告訴你就是說這個系統也是很爛為什麼"},{"start":515.174,"end":529.39,"text":"因為登打系統完之後他系統輸入還是要傳真啊這個是我最新調到他的通報流程嘛還是要傳真所以搞到警察跟金融人員更麻煩更麻煩要做兩次工"},{"start":530.231,"end":548.267,"text":"那我覺得今天為什麼會在這個地方提出來因為唐鳳部長IT大臣這個這麼厲害的網路神人你應該發揮你的功能幫這些機關做系統好不好不要只弄一些電子文件電子文件那送打分數的簽章也是在電子簽章法也是要電子簽章法通過"},{"start":555.874,"end":557.635,"text":"二類電信,我想問一下,現在二類電信一般是可以跟我們一類電信租到多少門號?"},{"start":581.118,"end":590.852,"text":"二類電信現在沒有二類電信這個名詞的因為我們電信法落日以後我們現在電信管理法那個MEMO這個部分是採所謂的資源登記的方法"},{"start":591.397,"end":618.918,"text":"那志願登記的方法來講的話我們要區分他大概是個人申請還是企業客戶是這樣處理。那可以申請多少門號?門號基本上來講說比如企業客戶原則上是依照我們的質疑以他有多少員工就有這個員工的數字。那現在海峽電信一次可以申請幾十萬門號這個狀況已經沒有?那是以前發生的事現在我們落實KYC這種情況來講現在不會出現海峽電信。我是說一次可以跟一夜電信租多少門號一般的企業嗎?"},{"start":619.739,"end":648.122,"text":"一般其實比如說你的企業裡面只有50個人嘛那50個人來講的話你原則上來講它是這樣的門號去處理嘛所以不會再出現如果你要更加更多的情況來講的話這個時候就要落實KYC去處理為什麼需要這麼多我知道我知道但是現在還是有類似的12家電信公司嘛這是在你們網站上看到的反正這些不是第二類電信喔這是你NCC網站欸這個大概112年6月嘛所以後來就這12家現在就沒有了如果沒有有來登記的就變成所謂的MVMO這個業者嘛"},{"start":649.423,"end":669.996,"text":"對好那我就針對這幾家業者嘛,所以他們還是可以跟一列電信租門號嘛,可以租到50萬戶嘛。對,他用企業客戶的名稱可以跟中華電信等等這些租門號。我的問題是這樣,他跟一列電信業者租了50萬門號,然後他再分租出去。那是以前的,現在不能分租。現在不可能50萬門號這種的程度。那他能不能分租出去?"},{"start":670.623,"end":687.944,"text":"﹗"},{"start":688.084,"end":693.988,"text":"那你覺得這個業者他會不會主動說他把剩下900個門號直接停掉?會不會?會不會?你聽他講。問題是現在就沒有嘛。你有要求現在就沒有嘛。"},{"start":706.937,"end":711.239,"text":"主委主委請教一下今天中天是不是又再次勝訴了對吧沒有那是一個在審的問題而已在審嘛所以在那一審的勝訴了嘛"},{"start":730.97,"end":749.823,"text":"主委,你一直講說你NCC14次勝訴對吧?然後中天只有兩次勝訴嗎?請問一下14次勝訴是包括很多你裁罰出去中天沒有訴訟的部分?這個也算勝訴喔,包括一個訴訟?主委,什麼叫勝訴?勝訴是說我跟你...等一下,等一下...主委,主委,等一下,主委"},{"start":755.027,"end":755.047,"text":"委員﹚"},{"start":775.337,"end":797.882,"text":"實際上你們在打官司不管是有沒有確定在好幾省你們就是一直連辦而且主委我問你另外一件事情啊我問你另外一件事情啊前兩天是不是有一個鳳凰雲前兩天是不是有一個鳳凰雲你們又敗訴了在那一庭沒有沒有沒有那就是敗審的問題嘛敗訴了嗎你那一庭又敗訴了你不瞭解訴訟程序嗎訴訟成敗就是以確定為準嘛"},{"start":802.843,"end":822.451,"text":"那是確定我現在講進行中的我現在講進行中的啦不要再打翻了啦訴訟費是你出嗎你如果說最後你那一庭你出的話你每一庭都是那庭出錢啦我跟你請教望黃雲那個事情你今天早上跟記者講說你跟記者說那個是前朝事你有這樣講嗎"},{"start":823.151,"end":826.053,"text":"我不是跟你辯論喔不好意思那個主席"},{"start":843.343,"end":848.486,"text":"我沒有在跟他辯論,我已經讓你一直講了,但是我有問問題你再回答好不好?"},{"start":855.097,"end":881.803,"text":"發黃雲的部分今天早上記者訪問你你是說那個是前朝事為什麼因為當時我還熱情回答等一下等一下你可以直接講嘛你在反駁嘛那時候你講的是說因為那個東西是前面的規定前面前朝規定那前朝為什麼你要退前朝因為當時所有的委員絕大多數是說不要裁罰可是裁罰了所以記者就問你說怎麼會這樣你說那是前朝決定好前朝決定代表說你也覺得有點理虧所以你才會說是前朝決定"},{"start":882.483,"end":893.194,"text":"那請問一下每一次每一庭敗訴之後你有沒有上訴市民的決定是你的決定嘛所以實際上你也認為說鳳凰雲這個事情你如果是你不管是前朝現朝你就是會這樣裁決啊"},{"start":894.517,"end":918.539,"text":"如果到時候輸的話你要不要負責所以現在NCC的問題是說你們一直在凹明明就是每次一直輸一直輸政府機關要訴訟要輸很不容易啦你已經確定兩件很不容易啦我跟你講啦主委如果你打詐的決心有跟你關電視台決心那麼強的話台灣詐騙會少很多啦"},{"start":921.361,"end":926.965,"text":"打發說我們已經做好了。然後講到關電視台說講一大堆沒有我們還勝訴啊。"}]}},{"id":"150293","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150293","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09ed435ce6cd53b3e68fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a666a1194165605de05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"15:17:59 - 15:33:39","影片長度":"00:15:40","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":940,"end_time":"2024-03-22T15:33:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T15:17:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":232,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（15時18分）院長好，有請陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：林委員午安。"],["林委員倩綺：院長好，如果您有印象的話，我們在這一週已經算是第二次見面了。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我的印象很深刻，你上次講划船的那個事情，very impressive。"],["林委員倩綺：是的，謝謝您還記得帆船這件事，所以你也知道本席本來在2月1日是要在澳洲的海域。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！好可惜喔！"],["林委員倩綺：結果後來就走進了立法院。"],["陳院長建仁：不過很恭喜你。"],["林委員倩綺：我也很高興，就是神關了一扇門，又為我開了另外一扇窗。"],["陳院長建仁：對，確實。"],["林委員倩綺：在這一次我進立法院的當天，我有兩位波蘭的友人跟我一起走進了立法院，我們踏在紅毯上，我們覺得這是神給我們很有趣的一個機緣。"],["陳院長建仁：對，感謝神！"],["林委員倩綺：因為這樣的機緣，我想跟院長分享一件事，不知道院長有沒有聽過一條路叫做聖雅各之路？很多人說這是朝聖之路。"],["陳院長建仁：有，不過很可惜我還沒有去過。"],["林委員倩綺：那院長是不是要跟我們分享您所瞭解的聖雅各之路？"],["陳院長建仁：我沒有去過，不過我有很多朋友去了，讓我很心動，我覺得這確實是一條很重要的路，不但可以發展觀光，而且也是一條發展宗教還有修養人性、心靈很好的路。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝院長，本席在過去幾年走過聖雅各之路，臺灣其實有很多人現在也都在走這條路，有越來越多的人往這個地方去朝聖。簡單來講，在1987年，聖雅各之路已經被列為聯合國兩條很重要所謂的宗教朝聖路線。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：當然這幾年不是只有宗教的人去走，而是有很多帶著文化、帶著性靈、帶著宗教，還有健身、運動，各項動機都有，甚至本席在這條路上也碰到了許多不同宗教的人，我們有這個機會做很多的文化交流。本席在2017、2018、2019走了總數是幾千公里的路，在這條路上有很多的體悟，本席也認為這是神給本席的一個禮物。"],["陳院長建仁：確實，令人羨慕。"],["林委員倩綺：而且也是神給孩子未來的一個使命，所以在這邊跟院長分享幾張有關於聖雅各路的圖片，院長可能可以在這裡面看到聖雅各路的一個標誌，還有聖雅各路的……我們到了終點的教堂，甚至本席還走到00公里的地之崖，就是世界盡頭，在這條路上幾千公里的路程，透過幾年這樣子走，本席有很多的體悟，也領受到很多的神蹟，所以本席也覺得在這個聖週之前，我們有機會這樣子的交流，真的是一個很特別的經驗。","本席在這邊跟院長的分享是，我們看下一張PPT，我們可以看到走聖雅各這條路其實有好多種方式，一個是徒步，再來是騎乘自行車，古法有一些騎乘騾、驢、馬這樣子的一個方式。"],["陳院長建仁：對，沒有錯。"],["林委員倩綺：還有，本席會開始學帆船也是因為聖雅各路的啟發，最終讓本席在這個路程上真的實際所碰到的是坐輪椅的人，……"],["陳院長建仁：對，很令人感動。"],["林委員倩綺：真的很多人因此而完成了他們的夢想。在走過這麼多趟之後，在這條路上，本席不僅體悟到了藝術，也體悟到這整個這麼久的文化內容，對本席有很多的影響跟啟發，所以在我每一次的路上，神給我的禮物跟體悟都不一樣。我在2017年的第一趟領受到了，在這條路上雖然有很多辛苦，但是我不敢害怕，最後只剩下信心。"],["陳院長建仁：太好了。"],["林委員倩綺：在2017年，因為我第一條路走成功了，就走了900公里，在那之後不僅心靈跟身體都受到了洗滌，我也覺得我好像變得不一樣一個人，……"],["陳院長建仁：確實會喔！"],["林委員倩綺：可能我再繼續走就會更成功，結果在2018年português的這條路就讓我因為驕傲而跌倒，這條路是我目前走了三條半還沒有完成的路。"],["陳院長建仁：神的啟示啦！"],["林委員倩綺：是的。2018年，我真的感受到與神同行的恩賜，那一年我覺得我得到了祝福的力量，2019年就是更特別了，我在2019年底走到了聖地牙哥，接下來2020年就有疫情了。那一趟路我真的覺得好特別，就是不知道為什麼一直往前衝，不知道到底是要衝向天堂，還是後面有什麼東西在追，還好沒有被疫情追到，我就已經回國了。"],["陳院長建仁：感謝。"],["林委員倩綺：從2018年一直到2023年，除了疫情那2年，我都在西班牙的某兩個地方當志工，一直到去年。"],["陳院長建仁：了不起。"],["林委員倩綺：我希望我今年也能夠去。我其實很想跟院長交流一下有關於聖雅各路這樣一個概念，在臺灣有沒有可能建構一條福爾摩沙線？怎麼說呢？走完第一趟我就有一些想法，期待在臺灣能夠走出我自己的聖雅各路，所以我就經常在臺灣這樣走著、走著，我也做了一些功課，結果後來我就發現在臺灣，其實從西班牙人來，尼得蘭人（荷蘭人）來之後，其實有好多的傳教士，不管是天主教或基督教，在我們的偏鄉，在我們的部落，在山、海很難去的地方，他們為我們開拓了一條公益之路。"],["陳院長建仁：而且不只一條，好多條啦！"],["林委員倩綺：對，不只是這樣，好多條。本席列的是本席有走過的，所以本席就這樣子走、走、走，在這個長步道上，還包括單國璽樞機主教跟星雲大師之路，這是很特別的一條路。"],["陳院長建仁：對，宗教的對話。"],["林委員倩綺：本席就發現了一些其實是可以再成就，讓這些路網能夠有更好的一個方式，比如說本席在2020年走了塔塔加到山海圳，我發現從玉山到曾文溪出海口的這條路，走到了茶山跟中埔的台3線，不知道院長知不知道最近因為開放重機，有很多重機也在山上走？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：所以沒有動力的這樣子一個概念其實對於行人跟腳踏車都有很大的困難。本席走這條路時發現有時候有路線，但是支援的規劃體系規劃不足，所以常常讓我們落入一些困難，比如說食、宿、交通跟有很多地方其實是可以透過廢棄的國小，或者是已經廢棄的教堂來重新利用，讓它更有功能。另外，步道常常變成車道，到最後我們就人車爭道，院長應該也可以知道人車爭道最後的後果會是什麼。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：一直到走了單國璽樞機主教跟星雲大師的這條路之後，我就有很多感觸，其實常常你沒有辦法從頭到尾徒步得很完整，這個是人的步道。","接下來我們再來看看2月16日我們交通部這邊，部長走了……"],["主席：您要請交通部備詢嗎？"],["林委員倩綺：好的，部長也可以出來一起分享好了。"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長。"],["陳院長建仁：請部長也來聽一下。"],["林委員倩綺：我就印下了這個，交通部很有誠意投入了很多錢要建置跟升級腳踏車步道，部長你們也很高興地在這個出發的地點，以前我們在行政單位，每次要騎腳踏車都很高興，從出發的地點大家都沒有什麼困難，但是困難我們大概都碰不到，只有真正在走的人會碰到，所以本席也很希望有機會能夠聽聽次長、主秘，還有署長騎的心得。最重要是這裡面有一句話說：騎自行車不用太累，配合火車也可以環島。但是事實上，我想這是因為我們沒有辦法真正的走完這條路，因為很多地方是不通的，這是事實！","所以接下來本席想要探討一下，臺灣真的是……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，那個自行車道最近我們發展得還算不錯啦！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["林委員倩綺：是、是、是。"],["陳院長建仁：我們還有一個新的計畫，希望把全島連結起來。"],["林委員倩綺：本席就很習慣在臺灣走來走去跟騎來騎去，所以臺灣真的「騎時」很美麗嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！少部分路段……"],["林委員倩綺：我們可以來看一下，這一段是在東澳到南澳段，你們也看得到自行車後面就跟著大車。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：當然這只是大客車，後面還有大卡車，這個經驗本席也有過。"],["陳院長建仁：這個在新的計畫會改善。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。接下來在環島1號線的台11線，也就是我們海岸阿美的這條路，本席曾經在2022年去挑戰了100公里，當然還有200公里的。本席的100公里在兩座山之間，您可以看到，在畫面上的是本席，本席基本上都騎在車道，不是自行車道，你也可以看到自行車道的路幅，我如果騎上去一定是被壓扁，或者基本上是沒辦法騎。雖然我們現在建置自行車道，然後有些單位也在建設步道，但事實上我們的長步道是連不起來的，自行車道也沒有辦法環島的，這是本席真正的經驗。","所以我們可以再來看看，本席在今年過年的時候又去檢視了一下玉長公路跟我們的海岸線，我們可以看到這種腳踏車的路幅，是可以通過的嗎？另外，我們再看下一張，腳踏車還是騎在車子前面，因為那些路幅腳踏車也沒辦法騎，人更沒辦法走。所以，要完成我的聖雅各路福爾摩沙線，我覺得是有滿大的困難。這個建置可能可以更人性化，然後更為弱勢者，我們所謂的弱勢就是行人小於自行車、自行車又小於許多動力大小車。","還有另外一個危險就是部落的安全，我們可以看到許多部落阿嬤的賓士車，常常是跟很大的車在部落裡面，還有跑得很快的車常常都是一起共行的，非常的危險！尤其是在花蓮玉里高寮那邊的金針山，那一條小路有很多的阿嬤賓士車，結果每次大家要衝上金針山的時候都是非常快速的。或許交通部可以考慮一下，許多部落其實是很值得人去走跟腳踏車去騎，但是在裡面如何顧慮到部落的安全，而且部落裡面有一些很有趣的設計，像多良部落裡面就有苦路14處。每一次我經過公路都看到好多車子停在那邊看太平洋的美景，但是如果他們能夠進入部落看這苦路14處、部落延展出的創意，我想大家會對臺灣的風景有另外一種思考。"],["陳院長建仁：我同意。"],["林委員倩綺：所以是不是可以在這邊請命？我們是不是可以重新檢討整個環島路線？對不起，還有屠步環島，有個YouTuber說了屠步環島，是屠殺的「屠」。我們真的要特別小心自己的安全，因為臺灣的用路環境對人跟自行車是不太友善的。臺灣的道路是人的一場生存遊戲，每次出門……"],["陳院長建仁：我們現在努力的方向就是做好全國腳踏車道、環島腳踏車道還有行人道的改善，這個需要中央跟地方政府一起努力做。我曉得有些地方政府很認真打拼，我們會真的像委員所說的，好好檢視、好好改善。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，我有幾項建議，第一，我們是不是可以確認部落、村落、公路之人車共用或分道？這個部分還滿專業的，或許交通部可以找不同層次的人，討論什麼叫做自然界的人車分道，並計算動力車跟徒步的路腹，因為雖然有的時候看起來有路、有劃線，但是事實上我們真的沒辦法走。","第二個部分是建置連通全島的長步道，長步道的定義就像我們走聖雅各路一樣，我們能夠走得平安，基本上，還是有一些設計上的網絡是需要思考的。另外，建置長步道的支援系統，就像我剛才講的，我們如果想要在求道的路上真正感受到與神交通的心靈層面，我們真的希望安全上可以讓我們少一點顧慮。","另外，建置部落內外道路安全的系統。部落裡面尤其是東海岸還有中央山脈等山脈裡面的部落，也請交通部幫我們多瞭解，然後多做一些討論再來建置。","最後，規劃並建置大自然間的人車分道，也就是人可以走什麼道，車應該走什麼道。這一點我相信如果做得到的話，臺灣就會成為一個更偉大的國家，因為尊重弱勢就是一個偉大國家的展現。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，事實上，你談的我們有兩個計畫，就是剛才談到的，第一個是環島自行車計畫，這個從109年已經開始做，然後就剛才談到的，儘量讓他有獨立的自行車道來做。第二個，現在包括省道，你在走，很多省道的人行道不夠，所以公路局用永續提升行人計畫140億，現在在省道裡面人可能比較會走的地方優先做，基本上往這個方向走。另外，過去環島自行車道大部分用我們的省道繞一圈，但是發覺有時候到了某一個部落或是……"],["林委員倩綺：好的，部長，我相信你這部分會好好的做。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["林委員倩綺：最後我想說，神說我就是真理、道路、生命，請讓我們無後顧之憂的行走，以鐵馬、行走的無動力方式，傾聽我們心靈的聲音。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們一起來努力。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第15位葉委員元之質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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,這從109已經開始做。然後就剛才談到的盡量讓它有獨立的這個自行車道來做。那第二個是我們現在包括省道,市長您在左邊都省道的人行道不夠,所以我們公路局現在用永續提升行人計畫140億,現在"},{"start":905.162,"end":908.725,"text":"神說我就是真理道路生命請讓我們無後顧之憂的行走"},{"start":938.908,"end":939.738,"text":"謝謝林委員的"}]}},{"id":"150292","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150292","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e5af4889f4e3f154afd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6bb90f9f2942976765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"15:02:13 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15:17:44","影片長度":"00:15:31","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":931,"end_time":"2024-03-22T15:17:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T15:02:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":125,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（15時2分）謝謝院長，有請行政院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：游委員，午安。"],["游委員顥：院長，午安。本席想要就教一下院長，在目前我們看到許多新聞大概都是民生的新聞，民生同樣的也影響到交通的各種成本，在去年的時候，有個年度的代表字，你還記得是什麼字嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我不太記得耶。"],["游委員顥：好，沒關係。去年的話是「缺」，缺電、缺員工、缺勞工，包括連醫院也在缺護理師，那時候缺電，大家都非常的清楚。在今年的話，自從電價預計要調漲11%以後，今年許多相關物品的物價會隨之上漲，請問一下你認同嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：不一定啦，因為我們在電價調漲過程中，我一再強調的是，我們會用很細緻的方式來調漲，我舉一個例子來看，像民生用電，在700度以下的將近1,300萬戶的人只漲5%，5%的意思是什麼？就是平均1天7毛錢，1個月是漲21塊……"],["游委員顥：所以就教院長……"],["陳院長建仁：所以我是覺得在我們很精緻的調整的情況下，大部分漲的價錢大概都是那些比較像是產業大戶所漲的價格比較多。"],["游委員顥：所以你認為漲的部分，其他民生相關的都不會再漲？"],["陳院長建仁：基本上因為漲幅不大，而且小商店的漲幅也是小。"],["游委員顥：其實11%算很大耶！好，沒關係……"],["陳院長建仁：現在還在審議當中，今天等一下才會公布。"],["游委員顥：所以就不會調了嗎？還是會調吧？"],["陳院長建仁：什麼東西？"],["游委員顥：電價還是會調漲吧？"],["陳院長建仁：這要看審議委員會，中華民國行之有年都是由電價審議委員會來調整的。"],["游委員顥：沒關係，院長，我直接跟你問，其實電價的調漲會帶動許多民生物價的上漲，這是一定的，也是大家可以預期的，所以今年從電價開始調整之後，我們可以預期今年大致上就是朝向一個「漲」字，這個「漲」字來講的話，不管結果怎麼樣，大家要去因應、去面對，所以就算今年的代表字是「漲」，大家還是要嚴陣以待的去面對，你認不認同？"],["陳院長建仁：我想我個人不認為「漲」字一定會啦，因為按照中央銀行的估計，我們今年CPI的成長情況會比去年的2.49要來得低很多啦，所以這是個人……"],["游委員顥：我們就拭目以待！"],["陳院長建仁：所以這是個人的見解不一樣，我尊重委員的見解，但是會不會漲，我想……"],["游委員顥：好，我就直接告訴院長好了，那個帶動的漲其實就是不斷的，像西門町有間水煎包店，一個水煎包，以目前來講，你預計在西門町買一個水煎包大概要多少錢？"],["陳院長建仁：我很少到西門町去，但是我了解有人吃水煎包是28塊錢，也有人吃12塊錢的，都有，要看它的成分啊、內容啊……"],["游委員顥：對，沒有錯，就是漲到28塊，你偶爾去表示你有吃到28塊的水煎包……"],["陳院長建仁：我沒有吃到過。"],["游委員顥：那臺鐵的便當是不是也要調漲？"],["陳院長建仁：臺鐵的便當，臺鐵現在已經民營化了，臺鐵對於他們自己的便當要不要漲價，我們尊重市場機制。"],["游委員顥：部長可以來幫您說明一下沒關係……"],["陳院長建仁：我們尊重市場機制啦！"],["游委員顥：市場機制，那是不是要調漲？"],["王部長國材：目前是高鐵啦，高鐵有提到要漲，臺鐵還沒有。"],["游委員顥：那高鐵的便當現在一個多少？以及預計要調到多少？"],["王部長國材：好像增加10塊錢。"],["游委員顥：所以現在一個是多少？"],["王部長國材：要110吧。"],["游委員顥：110塊的便當啊！其實我坦白說，以民生來講，這整個都會連著一起帶動的。","我接著就教，像目前來講，這整個帶動調漲的話，未來臺鐵的票價也會調漲了，是吧？"],["陳院長建仁：臺鐵是這樣子，委員你可能比我還清楚，臺鐵29年沒有調票價，最主要的原因是它有其政策任務，而且要讓大家能夠有很好的通勤便捷性。但是我們剛才講過，臺鐵已經變成一家民營化的公司，我們會尊重民營化公司自己對於票價的調整，當然，它的票價要調整的時候，要報到費率委員會來審議，我們也會來看看它是否有必要性。但是為了讓大家通學、通勤能夠得到很好的保障，中央政府這邊一定會繼續推動TPASS，這個TPASS的1,200塊是不會漲的，所以大家在通學、通勤所需要的大眾運輸費用是不會漲的。"],["游委員顥：因為TPASS的部分，它會進行一些補貼，我清楚，至於臺鐵的部分，我跟院長說，這個「漲」會不會成為今年的年度關鍵字，其實取決也是在於行政院，如何能夠穩定物價？物價穩定得好，「漲」就不會是今年的關鍵字、代表字，如果穩定得不好，「漲」就是今年的代表字，沒有錯吧？"],["陳院長建仁：對，見仁見智，但我個人是認為，按照中央銀行長期趨勢的估計，還有全球經濟發展的狀況，我們大家預期在今年度全球和臺灣物價CPI的增加情況會比去年要來得好……"],["游委員顥：所以說國家的角色、中央政府的角色所要扮演的就是穩定物價啊！"],["陳院長建仁：對，當然，我們穩定物價一直在進行。"],["游委員顥：那沒關係，院長，我直接接著請教，因為部長也在您的旁邊。因為調漲的部分會影響公共運輸的交通成本，公車、計程車以及油價這三類會不會調漲？"],["陳院長建仁：剛才我已經講過，公車的部分如果是買TPASS的話，那是不會調漲的，剛才我有講過……"],["游委員顥：你說不會調漲嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：剛才我已經講過了。"],["游委員顥：有信心穩住嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：油價的部分，到目前為止，它有一個浮動的費率，你也知道油價……"],["游委員顥：我知道、我知道！"],["陳院長建仁：我們一直有在做相關的……"],["游委員顥：計程車呢？"],["陳院長建仁：計程車的部分，目前……"],["王部長國材：最重要的是用電的影響比較大啦！"],["陳院長建仁：對啦，燃油……"],["王部長國材：燃油是隨著油價的，用電的比較……"],["陳院長建仁：我想大家都很清楚，當調整電費的時候，燃油的交通工具基本上是沒有漲價的基礎啦！"],["游委員顥：那我這樣子講好了，本席在這裡也希望院長、部長，在所謂民生物價上漲的時候，因為今天是交通組的質詢，公共交通運輸的成本，希望行政院跟交通部能夠確保剛才所提的這幾個，還有關於民生的部分，能夠特別不要去漲，因為包括客運的部分，能夠補貼的部分，也不要因為這樣而去減少班次，因為這是非常重要的，同樣的，那個……"],["陳院長建仁：我在這裡也要呼籲民眾盡可能的使用TPASS的系統，這樣的話，在使用大眾運輸工具的時候就不會受到影響。"],["游委員顥：這個我知道。但是我同樣地要問一下，就目前來講，穩定物價小組是多久開一次會？"],["陳院長建仁：穩定物價小組是由我們行政院的副院長來召開相關的會議。"],["游委員顥：所以是一個月召開一次嘛？原本三個月改為一個月召開一次？"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["游委員顥：我想問一下，民眾對於這個穩定物價小組沒有信心的原因，目前來講連它的會議紀錄，在網路上面公布的還停留在去年12月，就連新聞稿也還是停留在1月，如果像這樣的進度、這樣的討論，如何能夠讓民眾對於穩定物價是有信心的？"],["陳院長建仁：相關的新聞稿還有網頁的部分，我回去瞭解一下，再跟委員做報告。"],["游委員顥：好。接著就是在目前來講，我記得院長你上任的時候曾經做的第一個重大措施，你記得是什麼政策嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：當時有一個紓困特別條例，你指的是這個嗎？"],["游委員顥：不是，我指的是那時候超徵稅收3,800億嘛……"],["陳院長建仁：對啊……疫後特別條例……"],["游委員顥：那時候有進行一個現金券的部分嘛。我想問一下……"],["陳院長建仁：對，委員，是這樣子，這是因為疫後特別條例完了以後就有疫後特別預算，那裡面就有普發現金6,000元……"],["游委員顥：疫後特別條例這個部分我知道，那今年的部分就不發了嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：通常是這樣，政府如果要普發現金的時候就要看歲入歲出的盈餘有多少，那在前前一年的時候，我們歲入歲出的盈餘高達將近5,000億，我們再扣掉政府應該要還的借債的部分，我們還有3,800億的剩餘，所以我們有能力。那今年歲入歲出的盈餘大概在……"],["游委員顥：3,860億。"],["陳院長建仁：2,800多億，2,800多億再扣掉5%要來還債，剩下來的部分大概只有1,000到1,500億左右，所以沒有能力，因為我們普發一次6,000元的話就要有1,440億的經費。"],["游委員顥：本席是建議，因為去年發的時間點是敏感的，因為去年的話是選舉年嘛，所以說……"],["陳院長建仁：這個跟選舉沒有關係啦，要有足夠的錢才能夠發……"],["游委員顥：你說跟選舉沒有關係，但是我坦白講，因為今天來講在疫情的話，它這種景氣循環以及包括它的乘數效果來講，其實還是需要持續地去做這些刺激市場的措施，所以說在今年，你剛才講的，目前需要花費的金額跟超徵之後扣掉的金額其實是可以打平的情況之下，那你們今年就不打算去進行？"],["陳院長建仁：我想我剛才已經講過，因為今年的歲入歲出盈餘大概在2,760億，再扣掉1,200億用於還債的情形下只剩下1,500億，我們最主要的目標就是讓台電能夠得到補貼，要不然的話，電價就會像你講的一樣漲得更厲害，那當然物價就更不能夠控制，所以補貼台電很重要。第二個很重要的情形就是勞保，我想您也很知道勞保現在需要政府補貼的部分相當地大，如果這二個合在一起，可能1,500億就已經用完了。"],["游委員顥：沒關係，勞保跟國庫撥補的事，我會趁衛環組質詢的時候再跟您就教。","我就接著問我們地方的建設，一樣有請部長。其實今天來講我們不僅是代表南投的鄉親來進行質詢，反映我們的意見，在所謂的中捷來南投的這個議題上，我想請教一下院長，你上任到現在一年多將近兩年的時間，你有到過南投會勘或考察幾次？"],["陳院長建仁：南投的部分我已經有好幾次了。"],["游委員顥：有好幾次？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["游委員顥：那有針對中捷這個議題有特別……"],["陳院長建仁：中捷的議題是這樣子，捷運就我們的分工上來說是由地方政府提出相關的計畫，然後送到中央來審議，中央會按照它非自償的部分再給補助，所以中捷捷運延伸到南投這個議題，我想臺中市政府跟南投縣政府首先要做很好的溝通……"],["游委員顥：今天顏寬恒委員也有提出中捷的議題，所以我要呼應顏寬恒委員所提，目前來講我記得蔡英文在8年前他其實就開出這個政見，在4年前他同樣再提；在上一次賴清德他來南投中興新村的時候，他也再次提出這個問題。我們看這個資料，過去蔡總統提了許多部分，有很多都沒有兌現，那我就不一一列舉，我直接就教院長，對中捷的部分有沒有辦法做一個宣示？"],["陳院長建仁：好，關於中捷的部分，我剛才講得很清楚，捷運的發展是由地方政府提出來，我們也很希望地方政府儘快地提出來它的構想，我剛才講過，要提出這個構想，當然要跟南投縣來溝通、跟委員來溝通一樣。所以我們也很盼望，如果覺得中捷延伸到南投有必要，請臺中市政府趕快提出計畫，我們會加速審查。"],["游委員顥：我相信計畫會送過去，也希望院長到時候全力的支持中捷到南投，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我跟您報告一下，這個計畫送來的時候，首先就是地方政府做可行性評估，在可行性評估以後才有細部……"],["游委員顥：院長，我知道這些過程，我都有參與，所以你就承諾可以的話會全力支持就好了。"],["陳院長建仁：那當然，如果可行性評估過了，是好的，當然就支持，這個計畫地方政府扮演很重要的角色，我舉一個例子，像中捷藍線就是拖了一段時間……"],["游委員顥：我只要確定院長你願意全力支持中捷到南投就可以，就沒有問題了。"],["陳院長建仁：地方政府要提出計畫。"],["游委員顥：地方政府一定提出，這一定會提出。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有喔！上次臺中藍線拖了一段時間。"],["游委員顥：南投縣政府會提出來。"],["陳院長建仁：我得要講事實。"],["游委員顥：院長，我剩下一點時間，我要問你，國道6號要打通南投、花蓮這個案子你支不支持？"],["陳院長建仁：對這個案子實際上我們有做過相關的評估，它的經費相當地可觀，高達八千多億元……"],["游委員顥：但是這個是非常……"],["陳院長建仁：我還沒有講完，這裡面還有兩個很重要的關鍵，第一個就是地質的穩定性，第二個就是生態環境的保護，所以在做相關的評估以後，我們才能夠去看，如果可行了，未來做完環境影響評估了，就要做投資效益，所以剛才我要跟你講的就是一步一步來的原因就是這樣。"],["游委員顥：這個我知道，部長，這個案子在技術上是可行的嘛？"],["王部長國材：現在我們在啟動一個地質地貌的調查，在115年會有結果，到那時候才知道剛才院長所提的那些環境敏感地帶能不能克服。"],["游委員顥：如果在技術上可行的話，院長願不願意正向支持此案？"],["陳院長建仁：這是一個假設的語氣，那如果是假設的話，就是可行性評估嘛！那就看可行性評估的結果，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第14號林委員倩綺發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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我直接跟您問,其實這個電價的調漲啊,它帶動許多民生的一些物價的上漲,這是一定的,這是大家可以預期的。"},{"start":143.277,"end":158.549,"text":"所以說今年的話從一開始的話店家開始調漲之後我們可以預期今年的話大致上就是炒算一個漲字啦但是這個漲字來講的話不管結果怎麼樣大家要去迎迎要去面對所以就算今年的代表制是漲但是大家還是要嚴正以下來去面對你認不認同"},{"start":160.3,"end":180.43,"text":"我想我個人不認為漲勢一定會啦因為按照這個中央銀行的這個估計我們今年的CPI的成長的情況會比去年的2.49要來的低很多啦所以這是個人的見解不一樣我有尊重委員的見解但是證實間會不會漲我告訴院長好了就是說"},{"start":183.872,"end":199.604,"text":"那個帶動的漲其實就是不斷的那西門町有一家水煎包店你看一個水煎包目前來講你預計在西門町帶一個水煎包大概多少錢?我很少到西門町去但是我了解有人吃水煎包是28塊錢也有人吃12塊錢的"},{"start":200.845,"end":203.367,"text":"臺鐵的便當是不是也要調漲?臺鐵對於他自己的便當要不要漲價?我們尊重市場機制。"},{"start":228.945,"end":257.594,"text":"目前是高鐵啦,高鐵他提到要漲那高鐵的便當現在一個多少以及預計要調到多少他好像增加10塊錢所以現在一個多少110塊的便當所以說其實我坦白說以民生來講這個整個都會連著一起帶動那我接著就叫好了就是說像目前來講這整個帶動的調漲的話未來在所謂的台鐵的票價也會調漲是吧"},{"start":259.175,"end":285.401,"text":"台鐵是這樣子委員你可能比我還清楚台鐵29年沒有調這個票價最主要的原因他也是有他的政策的任務而且要讓大家能夠有很好的這一個通勤的便捷性但是台鐵我們剛才講過已經變成一個民營化的一個公司那我們會尊重這個民營化公司自己對於票價的調整當然他票價要調整的時候還要報到這一個"},{"start":287.481,"end":287.501,"text":"拜訪會議員"},{"start":311.837,"end":337.922,"text":"因為TPS的部分他會進行一些補貼那我清楚那台鐵的部分因為我跟院長說啊這個漲會不會成為今年的年度關鍵字啊其實取決也是在於行政院那如何能夠穩定物價穩定物價穩定的好那今年漲就不會是關鍵字代表字那如果穩定的不好那今年漲就是代表字沒有錯吧"},{"start":339.002,"end":359.01,"text":"對,見仁見智。我個人是認為按照中央銀行的長期趨勢的估計還有全球的經濟發展的狀況,我們大家的預期在今年度全球和台灣它的這個物價的CPI的增加的情況會比去年要好很多。所以說國家的角色,中央政府的角色他就扮演中央就是穩定物價。"},{"start":360.355,"end":373.039,"text":"對,當然我們穩定物價一直在進行。院長我直接接著請教,因為部長也在您的旁邊。因為這個調漲的部分它影響著公共運輸的交通成本。那在於公車以及計程車以及油價那這三類的話會不會調漲?"},{"start":378.89,"end":398.338,"text":"剛才已經講過公車的話,如果他是買TPAS的時候呢,那是不會調漲的嘛。那這個油價的部分,到目前為止,我們並沒有調漲的這個,他有一個浮動的匯率,你也知道這個油價,我們有一直有在做相關的這樣的"},{"start":399.258,"end":402.401,"text":"我想大家都很清楚,當調整電費的時候,燃油的這些交通工具基本上沒有漲價的基礎。"},{"start":423.678,"end":442.015,"text":"那我這樣子講好了就是本席在這裡也希望院長跟部長因為在這個所謂的民生的這個物價上漲的時候公共因為是今天交通組的質詢那公共交通運輸的成本那希望就是行政院這邊跟交通部能夠確保該所提的這幾個"},{"start":442.976,"end":443.276,"text":"這我知道。"},{"start":472.3,"end":484.029,"text":"但是我同樣的要問一下因為像目前來講穩定物價的小組是多久開始會?穩定物價小組是由我們行政院的副院長來召開相關的會議"},{"start":487.669,"end":514.365,"text":"所以說是一個月召開一次嘛。原本三個月改為一個月召開一次。是。那我想問一下,因為為什麼民眾對於這個穩定物價是沒有信心的原因是目前來講連他的會議記錄在網路上面公布的還在去年12月。就連新聞稿也還是停留在1月。那如果像是這樣子的一個進度,這樣子一個討論,如何能夠讓民眾他們對於穩定物價是有信心的。"},{"start":515.186,"end":536.944,"text":"這一個相關的新聞稿還有網頁的部分我可以去了解一下再跟委員做報告目前來講我記得院長你上任的時候曾經做了一個第一個重大措施你覺得是什麼政策當時有一個紓困特別條例"},{"start":537.881,"end":560.75,"text":"你指的是這個嗎?是,我指的是,那時候超收稅收,超徵稅收3800億嘛。對啊,那時候有進行的一個現金券的部分嘛。對,都是委員是這樣子。那我想問一下,那時候易厚特別條例,完了以後就易厚特別預算,那裡面就有這一個普發現金6000億。易厚特別條例的這個部分我知道。"},{"start":561.77,"end":575.736,"text":"今年的部分就不發了嗎?通常是這樣政府如果要普發現金的時候就要看稅入稅出的盈餘有多少那在前前一年的時候我們稅入稅出的盈餘高達到將近5000億"},{"start":577.697,"end":604.338,"text":"那我們在扣掉這個政府的應該要還的這個借債的這個部分我們還有3800億的剩餘所以我們有能力那今年呢稅率稅數盈餘大概在2800多那2800多再扣掉5%要來還債所以呢剩下來的部分大概只剩下1000到1500億左右那沒有能力因為我們花一次6000元的話就要有1440億的經費"},{"start":607.08,"end":632.368,"text":"我本席是建議啊,因為去年的時候發的時間點是敏感,因為去年的話是選舉年嘛。我說跟選舉沒有關係,但是我坦白講,因為今天來講在疫情的話他這種景氣循環以及包括他這個陳述來講,他其實還是需要持續的來去做這些刺激市場的一個措施啊。"},{"start":632.912,"end":645.46,"text":"那所以說在今年你剛才講的目前需要花費的這個金額跟剛才超徵之後扣掉的金額其實是可以打平的情況之下那你們今年就不打算來去進行"},{"start":646.805,"end":673.438,"text":"我想我剛才已經講過因為今年的稅入稅出盈餘大概在2760億再扣掉1200億的這一個還債的情形剩下1500億我們最主要的目標就是來讓臺電能夠得到補貼要不的話電價就會像你講的一樣漲得更厲害那當然這個物價就更不能夠控制所以這個補貼這個臺電很重要第二個很重要的情形就是勞保我想您也很知道這一個勞保現在的這一個"},{"start":675.179,"end":699.393,"text":"我也需要政府補貼的部分相當的大那如果這樣兩個合在一起可能1500億就已經用完了沒關係老保跟那個國庫撥補的事我政府未完的時候會再跟您就教那我就接著問我們地方的建設那一樣是有請部長那其實今天來講我們不僅是代表著南投的鄉親還來進行這個質詢還反映我們的意見"},{"start":704.394,"end":719.097,"text":"在這個所謂的終結來南投的這個議題,那我想請教一下院長,在你上任到現在1年多將近2年的時間,那你有到過南投會刊或考察幾次?"},{"start":719.497,"end":744.988,"text":"我去南投好幾次。好幾次?南投針對終結的這個議題有特別?終結的議題是這樣子,捷運在我們的分工上來說是由地方政府來提出相關的計畫,然後送到中央來審議。中央會按照他的這個非自償的部分再給補助。所以這個終結捷運的延伸到南投我想"},{"start":746.229,"end":774.631,"text":"台中市政府跟南龍蟹政府呢?今天在嚴寬恆委員他也有提出終結的部分那所以在呼籲嚴寬恆委員所提那目前來講我記得蔡英文她在8年前她其實就開出這個政見那在4年前她同樣在提那在上一次賴清德她來南投中興青春的時候她也再次提出這個問題那本席也知道說我們看這個資料"},{"start":775.732,"end":798.418,"text":"過去許多蔡總統他提的部分沒有兌現的有很多,那我就不一列舉,那我直接就叫院長,終結的部分有沒有辦法做一個宣示。好,終結的部分我剛才講的很清楚,捷運的發展是由地方政府提出來,我們也很希望這個地方政府盡快的提出來他的這個構想。"},{"start":800.019,"end":815.132,"text":"我剛才講過提出這個構想當然要跟南投縣來溝通跟委員來溝通一樣所以我們也很盼望如果覺得終結延伸到南投有必要請台中市政府趕快提出計畫我們會加速審查"},{"start":816.311,"end":842.473,"text":"那我相信計畫算過去也希望那個院長到時候是全力的支持終結到南投,可以嗎?如果計畫審查可信,這個委員我跟您報告一下,這個計畫來的時候首先呢就是地方政府做可信性評估,可信性評估以後才有參與。那所以說你就承諾說可以的話全力支持就好。那當然如果可信性評估過好,當然就支持。"},{"start":843.593,"end":864.561,"text":"這個計畫地方政府扮演很重要的角色。舉個例子,像中間南線就是拖了幾段...我只要確定院長你願意全力支持終結到南頭就可以,沒有問題。地方政府要提出計畫?地方政府一定提出啦,這一定提出啦。上次台中南線...我得要講事實。院長,那我覺得剩下一點時間,我要認明"},{"start":871.763,"end":890.619,"text":"國道6號要打通南投花蓮,這案你支持不支持?這一個案子實際上我們有做過相關的評估,它的經費相當的可觀。但是還沒有講完,這裡面還有兩個很重要的關鍵,第一個就是地質的穩定性,第二個就是生態環境的保護。"},{"start":891.34,"end":917.304,"text":"那在所以呢在做相關的評估以後我們才能夠去看說好可行了那未來要做這個環境影響評估完了要做投資效益所以剛才我要跟你講說一步一步來對我知道但是這一個案子在技術上部長是可行的嘛那個現在我們在啟動一個地質地貿的調查在115會有結果那時候才知道說剛才院長所提的那些環境敏感地帶"},{"start":917.904,"end":926.349,"text":"但是是能夠技術上可行的話,院長也不會正向支持此案?這個是一個假設語氣啦齁,那如果假設的話...謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150291","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150291","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09ec35b0f3e0e5b8c22fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a643a31f228f19f8305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"14:46:28 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15:02:00","影片長度":"00:15:32","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":932,"end_time":"2024-03-22T15:02:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T14:46:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":55,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（14時46分）謝謝主席，我請行政院院長。"],["主席：再請行政院陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：吳委員午安。"],["吳委員沛憶：院長好。院長，我們是民意代表，倘若社區有旅遊，我們時常在早晨遊覽車出發之前上車跟民眾打招呼、問候，所以我們看到高雄發生這一起遊覽車事故造成1死15傷，其實真的感到相當憂心……"],["陳院長建仁：對，而且很難過。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們知道在2017年蝶戀花事故之後，其實交通部已經針對遊覽車和客運業的整體管理安全做出了一些改革措施，我想先請問，事故發生之後，根據媒體報導，2022年交通部裁罰件數，針對超時駕駛，也就是我們現在在實務上看到最嚴重問題，針對超時駕駛，2022年裁罰件數，一年只罰了5件，有這麼少嗎？"],["王部長國材：是，跟委員報告，蝶戀花事件以後，我們做了一個很重要的事情，全國的遊覽車，全部都監控，所以他們裝了GPS，在樹林有一個中心可以看它的路線，包括駕駛開車移動的時間。現在是這樣，就你談到的超時部分，我們會從軌跡圖去看，如果看到可能超時的就會去查核，查核確實就會裁罰，當然這個件數……因為以前無法全部監控，但現在是全部監控了……"],["吳委員沛憶：是。"],["王部長國材：所以事實上我們是抓得……包括這次高雄的事件，我們發覺他從早上開始，總共15小時，也是在我們監控之下看到的，大概是這個狀況。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，2022年比較少，這也可能是和疫情有關係。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。"],["陳院長建仁：但是2023……"],["吳委員沛憶：交通部有裁罰，勞動部也有進行勞檢，針對超時駕駛，我希望我們聯合稽查也好、裁罰也好，都是希望預防意外、不幸事件的發生，所以有關於超時駕駛，我希望交通部跟勞動部要加強合作，針對大型遊覽車相關的安全管理確實落實，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好，委員的這個建議很好，謝謝你關心所有的安全。"],["吳委員沛憶：謝謝，接下來部長先請回，同時我要請數發部。院長，在2019年的時候，國防部的國防安全研究院有一篇研究對我們提出警示，我們必須預防中國有可能破壞臺灣的海底電纜，有可能造成的問題就是我們的通訊被斷網，我們有可能被切斷對外的聯繫，事實上，這也不是一個未來式了，2023（去）年光是2月，在一週以內就發生了兩次，就是我們的臺馬電纜斷掉。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：那一次是因為中國的漁船把它拖斷；第二次是貨船來源不明，但是一樣造成我們電纜的破損。在這個事件之後，我們的國防安全研究院週報提出了3點結論，第一點，中國有可能持續運用類似的手段，來破壞我國的網路韌性；第二點，我們必須建立備援機制，來強化我們通訊的網路韌性；第三點，我們臺灣必須借鏡烏克蘭，來發展低軌衛星。所以我今天想要請問院長，我們臺灣對於預防中國破壞我們的海底纜線，有沒有在做因應的對策？"],["陳院長建仁：對於海底纜線這一個部分，我們確實是有在進行如何去加強它的韌性，包括搶修的時間要快；然後要有備援的一個基礎；在這裡，我們也會設置相關的保護所等等，這是關於海纜的部分，而中華電信也請海委會來加強第一海纜巡迴的保護。這個部分，我們通傳會要不要簡單說明一下……"],["吳委員沛憶：所謂的備援通訊，其中重要的一部分是低軌衛星。"],["陳院長建仁：對，低軌衛星。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們行政院有提出太空3期計畫，甚至蔡英文總統去年還說3期計畫必須加碼，要加碼400億投入低軌衛星的研製；甚至我們臺灣要擘劃我們自己的國家發射場；我們這幾年也完成立法，成立了國家太空中心。所以我想請問院長，針對太空3期計畫的加碼，我們目前的規劃完成了嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對，這個部分我們會積極來進行，因為這個部分跟數位部比較有關係，請數位部先來說明。"],["唐部長鳳：確實如同委員所說的，就是非同步衛星，包含已經在運作的中軌道衛星，包含在馬祖以及太平島，其實我們已經在測試了，這個是SES；低軌的衛星，就是OneWeb，應該是今年大概5、6月，下半年應該就可以提供服務。加起來到年底，我們就會有770個點能夠提供、應付這種緊急的情況。當然委員剛才提到的，包含我們自己的或者是更多的，可能就是外國的、跟我們一起搭配的，我們都會一起做資安的測試……"],["吳委員沛憶：我們除了努力自製之外，我們也要進行跟國際的合作，對不對？"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：目前我們數位部有沒有已經跟哪些國家進行洽談了？"],["唐部長鳳：除了剛剛講到的SES，是盧森堡跟法國的之外，我自己去年也有到英國，因為OneWeb這家公司比較特別，英國的政府對它是有所謂黃金股，就是有控制權的，所以在我跟英國討論之後，他們也很願意儘快的在供應鏈上面，或者是在資安的水準上面，跟我們一起來測試。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒有錯，因為我們不能把雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以我們要去除這個風險，就是你們講的，我們必須要多元並且異質的網路通訊。所以我們現在除了自製在努力當中，這700個接收站，我們預計什麼時候可以完成？"],["唐部長鳳：我們年底就可以完成，至於要分布在哪裡，目前國科會在這個月會提出去……"],["吳委員沛憶：今年年底我們就會完成700個接收站。因為最近我們立法院委員非常的關心太平島的安全，但我想安全不是去用看的就有安全了，我們有沒有預計要在太平島來連接我們的通訊衛星？"],["唐部長鳳：有，剛才我有提到我們的中軌衛星已經在測試。至於提供給太平島上的我國國人來使用，目前以我所知，大概是4月的時候，他們會來做調度頻寬，一旦調度好就可以提供使用。"],["吳委員沛憶：院長，我們看到美國跨黨派的議員才在上一週提出一個法案，要求美國太空總署，也就是NASA要跟臺灣進行民用的太空事務的合作，這對於我們臺灣要發展我們的太空產業，是一個很好的契機……"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們樂觀其成，會積極來辦。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以我希望行政院，不管對於太空中心，還是對於數發部，我們的太空計畫要來努力支持，然後加速來推動，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好，一定會這樣做。"],["吳委員沛憶：我也要提醒數發部，我認為低軌衛星的發展，不只對於臺灣，現在全球在冷戰之後，新一波的太空競逐，臺灣沒有落後，我們正在努力投入當中，但是我認為數發部的這些說明其實不夠，連我們立法委員都要研讀很多的資料，跟你們要資料後，才能夠瞭解這其中為什麼我們需要投入這麼多的資源，我們預計要達到什麼樣的效果，對於臺灣不管是通訊還是我們的安全有什麼樣的幫助，我認為我們要加強跟社會溝通，因為這對我們臺灣來講，是一件重要的事情，我們努力加油，好不好？"],["唐部長鳳：沒有問題，謝謝委員。"],["陳院長建仁：我們請數位部來加強。"],["吳委員沛憶：接下來請交通部。院長，同樣是在去年，您到萬華東園國小與加蚋站的共構視察萬大線一期工程，當時我也在場。當時臺北市長蔣萬安也特別拜託院長，因為我們都知道這幾年公共工程經費上漲，原訂750億預算，臺北市政府計算後發現需要增加100億。當時蔣萬安市長提出，希望能請院長幫忙，由中央補助臺北市50億關於萬大線一期的預算，因為臺北市除了捷運萬大線，同時還有南環段、北環段的捷運都正在興建。總體而言，臺北市政府希望中央能再增加補助427億的預算，協助我們興建臺北市的軌道建設。雖然我跟市長不同黨派，但我是臺北市的立法委員，我必須為臺北市民請命。就這部分，我希望中央能持續支持臺北市，繼續完成軌道建設？"],["陳院長建仁：我們會跟地方政府再來檢討。如果是屬於不可抗力因素所造成的話，我們一定會請相關部會全力支持……"],["吳委員沛憶：臺北市政府把計畫提出來了嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我請部長簡單說一下。"],["王部長國材：所謂不可抗力，就是物價、原物料、營建物價上漲，這部分是不可抗力。其他比如說設計時自己疏忽掉的，這就要請他們來處理。目前用這個原則……"],["吳委員沛憶：計畫送進來了沒？"],["王部長國材：送進來了，我們請他再做一些比較細的解釋。"],["吳委員沛憶：還在審核吧？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們就朝向支持公共工程……"],["陳院長建仁：當然，委員也很關心。"],["吳委員沛憶：來支持，好不好？民間、坊間在說，好像中央只補助南部，不補助北部……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有這回事！很多！"],["吳委員沛憶：該做的事情我們就要做。我去看了一下臺北市，過去中央支持臺北市軌道建設的預算加總起來，從初期的捷運網絡，到後面的環狀、信義、松山線等等，中央總共補助了6,775億。這是基礎的公共建設，對於公共建設我們不分黨派，不分藍綠，不分南北，只要有需求，就希望中央可以持續來支持。"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝委員幫我們做了很好的統計。"],["吳委員沛憶：講到臺北市的軌道建設，有一個很重要的地標，也就是臺北車站。臺北車站是首都的入口，甚至是臺灣的國家門戶！目前臺北市正在臺北車站周遭進行西區門戶計畫，其中中央交通部轄下的臺鐵與中華郵政，也在西區門戶計畫有著重要的角色，而我所關注的是雙子星。2019年時，臺北市政府一度想把雙子星交給南海控股開發，但雙子星畢竟位在國門要地，牽涉六鐵共構，所以當時送到投審會審查，投審會最後否決了南海控股！當時包括臺北市前市長柯文哲，還有現任桃園市市長張善政都提出抱怨，認為中央在卡案！我要說的是，好險投審會有如實審查。院長，為什麼當時投審會沒有通過交給南海控股？"],["陳院長建仁：我想最主要是因為它是由中國控股的公司……"],["吳委員沛憶：它是中資？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：去年南海控股被中國國營企業沒收！"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以我說海水退了才知道誰沒有穿褲子！還好投審會當年有如實依法審查，否則現在我們的國門要塞、我們的雙子星，就會由中國國企進行開發，後果不堪設想！這裡是六鐵共構，底下有高鐵、臺鐵。在這邊我要提醒行政院，我知道在推動政策時，時常會遇到帶風向、遇到政治攻擊，但我要拜託你們，我們所有人都在公門，不是為哪一個政黨服務，也不是在捍衛民進黨。只要是對的事，我們理直就要氣壯，因為這是法律要求我們的法定責任！該做的事情就要認真去做，就堅持去做，並說明清楚。院長，可不可以努力做到？"],["陳院長建仁：我同意，也謝謝你的鼓勵，行政團隊一定按照這樣的精神來做。"],["吳委員沛憶：最後我拜託院長，我知道你也是臺北市中正區的居民，我相信你跟我一樣期待臺北車站應該是一個能夠符合國際標準與國際品質的世界級車站。臺北車站是我們臺鐵進出人數最多的一站，也是世界評比人潮前25大的車站，但是我真的時常在我們車站裡面看到很多國際旅客站在我們的地圖站跟指標前面停留非常久的時間，我們現在有很多來自於日本、來自於韓國的旅客，他們討論了很久，臺北車站因為標示不清楚，儼然已經是一座迷宮了，你們到YT網站上去搜尋影片，很多的外國網紅、YouTuber都在拍攝說臺北車站裡面實在太容易迷路了！我要講的是，它根本的問題是在於臺北車站裡面有臺鐵體系、高鐵體系，還有歸臺北市政府管的北捷體系及桃園市政府管的機捷，在這裡面有太多跨系統的單位，光是我們的路標、標示的指引，同樣一個中文詞彙就有很多不同的英文呈現方式，同樣一個地圖有不同方位的視角，對於旅客來說，這真的儼然是一座迷宮。雖然這是一件小事，但也是一件大事，因為我覺得這牽涉到中央跟地方如何找到一個合作的機制。","就我所知，臺北車站目前有臺鐵跟高鐵以及其他單位，就防災有一個跨單位協作平台，我是不是能夠拜託院長及部長，我們重新來盤整臺北車站，不只是站體裡面的，也包括站體周遭的行人安全？因為周遭就涉及到臺北市政府工務局，我們整體來做一個盤點，讓我們的臺北車站能夠符合國際標準，讓國際旅客來到臺北國門的時候，它是一個非常友善的入口，我們可不可以做得到？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們跟地方政府一起來討論這個議案。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員沛憶的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第13號游顥委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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院長我們是民意代表所以說時常我們社區倘若有旅遊我們都會在早晨的時候到遊覽車出發之前來上車來跟民眾來打招呼問候那所以說我們看到高雄發生這一起遊覽車的事故的事件造成了一死15傷其實真的是感到相當的憂心"},{"start":40.64,"end":56.69,"text":"而且我們知道說其實在這個點煉花的事故之後2017年其實我們交通部已經針對我們的遊覽車客運業整體的管理安全有做出了一些改革的措施所以我想要先請問有關於這個事故發生之後因為報載媒體報導說2022年我們交通部的裁罰的件數針對超時駕駛就是我們現在看到在實務上最嚴重的問題"},{"start":68.877,"end":70.098,"text":"針對超時駕駛,我們2022年裁罰件數一年只罰了5件,有這麼少嗎?"},{"start":84.693,"end":104.879,"text":"所以他們就裝了GPS然後在我們這個樹林有一個中心所以我們可以看他路線還有包括駕駛他開車移動的時間那我們現在是這樣就是從我們的軌跡圖裡面去如果看到這個可能的這個超時如果你談是超時的部分就會去查核查核確實就會這個來採訪"},{"start":108.803,"end":110.624,"text":"議員2022年比較少,我看會不會和疫情有關係,也可能有啦。"},{"start":133.019,"end":146.754,"text":"我們交通部有裁罰,我們勞動部也有進行勞檢,有針對超時駕駛。我希望我們的聯合稽查也好,我們的裁罰也好,都是希望能夠預防意外。"},{"start":147.335,"end":151.457,"text":"議員的這個建議很好謝謝你關心這個所有的安全接下來我也要部長先請回我同時要請速發部"},{"start":182.634,"end":195.975,"text":"院長這是在2019年的時候我們國防部的國防安全研究院有一篇的研究來對我們提出一個警示也就是說我們必須要來去預防中國有可能來破壞臺灣的海底電纜"},{"start":198.118,"end":198.138,"text":"﹚吳沛憶"},{"start":216.804,"end":240.81,"text":"關掉。一次是因為中國的漁船把它拖斷。第二次是貨船來源不明但是一樣造成我們電纜的破損。在這個事件之後我們的國防研究院週報提出了三點的結論。第一個是中國有可能持續運用類似的手段來破壞我國的網路韌性。"},{"start":241.57,"end":260.618,"text":"第二點,我們必須要去建立備援機制來強化我們通訊的網路韌性。第三點,臺灣我們必須要接近烏克蘭來發展低軌衛星。所以我今天想要請問院長,我們臺灣對於預防中國來破壞我們的海底纜線,我們有沒有在做因應的對策?"},{"start":261.738,"end":289.571,"text":"對於海底纜線的這一個部分我們確實是有在進行怎麼樣加強它的韌性包括搶修的時間要快然後要有備援的這一個基礎那在這裡我們也會設置相關的保護所等等這是有關於這一個海纜的部分那中華電信也請海委會來加強這一個第一海纜的這個巡迴的這一個保護那這個部分我們"},{"start":293.144,"end":315.957,"text":"所謂的這個備援通訊其中一部分重要的是低軌衛星那我看了我們行政院有提出太空三期計畫那甚至蔡英文總統去年還說三期計畫必須要加碼我們要加碼來投入400億來投入我們低軌衛星的研製甚至我們台灣要破壞我們自己的國家發射場"},{"start":316.997,"end":344.89,"text":"我們這幾年也完成了立法,成立了國家太空中心。所以我想請問院長,針對太空三期計畫的加碼,我們目前規劃完成了嗎?對,我們在這一個部分呢,我們會積極來進行。那這一個部分數位部比較有關係。然後請數位部先來說明。謝謝委員。確實如同委員所說的,就是我想非同步衛星,包含已經在運作的中軌道衛星,這個我們包含在馬祖以及"},{"start":345.37,"end":345.39,"text":"吳沛憶"},{"start":364.545,"end":387.398,"text":"我們除了在努力要自治之外,我們也要進行跟國際的合作,對不對?目前我們數位部有沒有已經跟哪些國家來進行洽談了?是,我想除了剛剛講到的SES是盧森堡跟法國的之外,我自己去年也有到英國。那因為OneWeb這家公司比較特別,英國的政府對它是有所謂黃金股,就是有控制權的。"},{"start":388.098,"end":415.505,"text":"所以在我跟英國討論之後他們也很願意盡快的在供應鏈上面或者是在他資安的水準上面跟我們一起來測試。沒有錯因為我們不能把雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡所以我們要去除這個風險就是你們講的我們必須要多元並且一直的這個網路通訊所以我們現在除了自製在努力當中這個700個接收站我們預計什麼時候可以完成對我們年底就可以完成那目前要分佈在哪裡目前國科會在"},{"start":415.845,"end":415.865,"text":"吳沛憶議員"},{"start":430.976,"end":450.968,"text":"有,剛才我有提到說我們中軌衛星已經在測試,那至於說提供給就是太平島上面的五個國人來使用,目前以我所知是大概4月的時候他們會來做調度頻寬,一旦調度好就可以提供使用。院長,我們看到美國跨黨派的議員才在上一週就提出一個法案,要求美國太空總署也就是NASA,"},{"start":451.288,"end":467.978,"text":"﹗"},{"start":468.238,"end":482.254,"text":"那我也要提醒速發部我認為低軌衛星的發展不只對台灣現在這全球在冷戰之後新一波的太空進逐台灣我們沒有落後我們正在努力投入當中但是我認為速發部的這些說明其實不夠"},{"start":482.995,"end":483.595,"text":"謝謝委員接下來我要請交通部"},{"start":509.551,"end":533.449,"text":"院長同樣是在去年您有到萬華東元國小我們跟加納站的共購來視察萬大縣一起的工程當時我也在場那當時我們台北市市長蔣萬安有特別來拜託院長就是因為我們都知道公共工程這幾年公共工程的經費上漲所以原定我們是751的預算那台北市我們政府計算了一下發現需要增加100億那當時蔣萬安市長就提出來了"},{"start":536.411,"end":536.431,"text":"吳沛憶"},{"start":551.428,"end":551.568,"text":"吳沛憶吳沛憶"},{"start":575.751,"end":604.774,"text":"我們會跟地方政府再來檢討,如果是屬於不可抗力的這個因素所造成的話,我們一定會請相關的部門來全力支持。我請部長簡單的說一下。因為不可抗力就是說物價啦,這個原物料的這個物價上漲這部分是不可抗力。那其他比如說他當時設計自己疏忽掉的,這個就要請他們來處理。目前用這個原則在...那個計畫送進來了沒有?"},{"start":605.594,"end":630.972,"text":"他送進來,我們請他再做一些比較細的解釋。我們還在審核嘛。這部分我們就朝向要支持公共工程的部分來支持。因為我看民間很多坊間在說好像我們中央只是補助南部,不補助北部。該做的事情我們就要做。我也去看了一下我們台北市,過去中央支持我們台北市軌道建設的預算,"},{"start":632.233,"end":634.715,"text":"謝謝委員幫我們做了很好的統計。講到臺北市的軌道建設很重要的一個地方地標就是我們的臺北車站。"},{"start":661.612,"end":690.118,"text":"臺北車站是我們首都的入口甚至是我們臺灣國家的門戶那在臺北車站的周遭呢我們臺北市正在進行的是西區門戶計畫其中呢我們中央我們交通部轄下的臺鐵跟中華的郵政也在我們西區門戶計畫裡面是一個重要的角色那我在關注的是雙子星雙子星在2019年的時候一度呢臺北市政府是想要交給南海控股"},{"start":690.538,"end":718.433,"text":"但是雙子星畢竟為在我們國門要地牽涉到了六鐵共共,所以當時有送到我們投審會來審查嘛。審審會最後是否決了這個南海控股。那當時呢,包括我們台北市的前市長柯文哲還有現在桃園市的市長張善政都提出抱怨啊,認為說中央是在卡案。但是我要說的是,好險投審會有如實的審查。"},{"start":719.523,"end":740.279,"text":"為什麼當時投審會沒有給南海控股通過呢,院長?我想最主要是因為他是這個中國控股的公司嘛。他是中資嘛。對。去年的時候呢,南海控股被中國國營企業來沒收。對。所以我說海水退了才知道誰沒有穿褲子。還好投審會當年有如實依法來審查,否則現在在我們的國門要塞,我們雙子星,"},{"start":746.744,"end":773.64,"text":"就會是中國的國企來進行開發這後果是不堪設想我們是六鐵共共下面也有我們高鐵也有我們台鐵所以在這邊我也是要提醒我們行政院我知道在推動政策的時候時常要遇到帶風向時常要遇到政治的攻擊但是我要拜託你們我們所有都是人在公門你們不是為哪一個政黨服務也不是為民進黨在捍衛是對的事情我們理直就要氣壯"},{"start":774.761,"end":790.259,"text":"因為這個是法律要求我們的法定責任,該做的事情我們就要認真去做,我們就堅持去做,不想把它說明清楚,院長我們可不可以努力來做到。我同意而且謝謝你的鼓勵,我們行政團隊一定會按照這樣的精神來做。"},{"start":791.48,"end":819.755,"text":"院長那最後呢我是要拜託你因為我知道你也是我們臺北市中正區的居民嘛我相信你跟我一樣是期待我們臺北車站應該要是一個能夠去符合國際的標準跟國際的品質世界級的車站臺北車站呢臺北車站是我們台鐵寄出人數最多的一站也是世界評比裡面人潮前25大的車站但是呢我真的時常的在我們車站裡面看到很多的國際旅客"},{"start":820.916,"end":839.793,"text":"站在我們的地圖站在我們的指標前面停留非常久的時間現在我們很多來自於日本來自於韓國的旅客他們討論了很久臺北車站因為標示的不清楚儼然已經是一座迷宮了你們到YT的網站上面去搜尋影片"},{"start":840.333,"end":867.627,"text":"很多的這個外國的網紅YouTuber都在拍攝說在臺北車站裡面實在太容易去迷路了那我要講的是他其實的根本的問題是在於在臺北車站裡面我們有台鐵體系我們有高鐵體系我們有北捷體系歸臺北市政府管的我們現在還有基捷桃園市政府管在這個裡面有太多跨系統的單位光是我們的這個路標啊標識的指引"},{"start":868.527,"end":884.062,"text":"同樣一個中文的詞就有很多不同英文呈現的方式同樣一個地圖我們有不同方位的視角對於旅客來說這真的是是儼然是一座迷宮所以這雖然是一件小事但是也是一件大事"},{"start":884.542,"end":910.072,"text":"因為我覺得這牽涉到的就是我們中央跟地方如何去找到一個合作的機制。就我所知臺北車站目前我們臺鐵跟高鐵以及其他的單位就防災我們有一個跨單位的協作平台。我是能夠拜託院長拜託部長我們重新來盤整臺北車站不只是站體裡面的也包括站體周遭的行人安全。"},{"start":910.572,"end":910.592,"text":"謝謝吳委員"}]}},{"id":"150290","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150290","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.n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- 14:46:17","影片長度":"00:15:46","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":946,"end_time":"2024-03-22T14:46:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T14:30:31+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":2,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（14時30分）主席，請行政院陳院長。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：吳委員午安。"],["吳委員琪銘：院長好。首先恭喜院長，我們臺灣的股市已經來到兩萬多點，這證明院長所帶領的行政團隊是穩健向前。我們的高科技產業，像台積電的亮眼也帶動我們整個經濟的發展，我們的臺灣半導體、AI產業未來是指日可待。近期台積電也確定要在嘉義設廠，未來配合屏東、高雄、臺南的科技園區，成為南部的 AI廊道，也已經逐漸地成形。","本席在選舉期間也特別提過，我們土城、三峽未來要發展AI產業廊道，而土城、三峽這個構想當初也受到賴清德總統的認同。土城、三峽這幾年在本席以及中央的努力下，交通的基礎建設發展地非常快速，除了便利的捷運、三鶯線、板南線、萬大線，還有土城交流道，以及院長有出席動工的金城交流道，現在都開始在施作，未來我們更有延伸的台65快速道路，加上土城工業區的基礎，以及我們的科技產業也在土城發展。","土城、三峽有相當多的土地空間可以來推動，在地理環境具有優勢的情況下，加上未來更便捷的交通，能串聯竹科以及內湖科技園區，形成我們北部的 AI科技廊道，有更加完整的產業聚落，本席期盼我們可以往這個方向來努力。院長，因為土城跟三峽這個地方，你都非常清楚。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員琪銘：未來我們是不是朝這個 AI科技園區的方向來推動，院長你的看法呢？"],["陳院長建仁：這個構想相當地好，也要謝謝委員對於土城、三峽這個地方的建設、產業的發展一直都很用心，特別是在交通這方面，還有AI科技廊道的推動，我很佩服你有這樣前瞻性的看法，當然未來我們中央政府一定會努力來協助地方政府，一起來完成這個目標。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，非常感謝院長！院長，因為土城這個地方有個司法園區，目前有84公頃正在動工中，屬於彈藥庫的北側，就是我現在簡報上圖案的北側，然後南側這邊也是屬於彈藥庫的一部分，我們當初拆成兩塊。而南側這個地方有很多彈藥庫跟我們的國有土地，未來這個地方整個土地面積有將近100公頃，未來這100公頃我們要推動成為科技園區，興建科技園區我們都需要土地嘛。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：這個地方是本席認為我們推動上會更為方便，也能更便利我們一些高科技產業的進駐。院長，這個地方我們共同來推動有沒有問題？"],["陳院長建仁：我想要形成一個生態共榮生活圈，然後讓它變成都市發展的典範，這也是一個很好的構想，可以使整個產業有一個很好的聚落，我想這也是一個很有遠見的看法。"],["吳委員琪銘：對，因為我們有一些高科技廠商都知道，只要是土地的取得會有困難。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["吳委員琪銘：這個國有地要是我們能去推動，讓高科技產業進駐土城跟三峽這個地方，也可以造就我們這邊一些年輕人的就業機會。院長，要推動之前，因為我們都知道國土計畫法明年就要實施了，我們過去在疫情期間的3年都停擺，造成很多農民以及我們地方政府大家的溝通、說明不夠，造成很多的農民以及我們地方上的反彈。尤其去年疫情一過，然後來辦地方的說明會，我看全國的農民大家都持著反對的意見，證明整個溝通協調的工作還不夠落實，因為疫情期間大家都停擺。"],["陳院長建仁：對，沒有辦法做。"],["吳委員琪銘：本席現在又是內政的召委，本席要提案來延長2年，院長你的看法如何？"],["陳院長建仁：按照法律上來講的話，我們是應該在114年4月30日就要公告國土功能分區作為目標，現在還沒修法前當然我們要這樣做，但是就像委員所講的，因為碰到了疫情都沒什麼做到嘛！結果目前能夠提到內政部的就只有3個縣市，就是連江縣、金門縣跟花蓮縣，其他的縣市理論上講起來應該在6月底以前陸續提出，但是民眾也有很多的陳情案嘛！所以委員如果提出了這樣的一個法案、延期的這個建議，我們行政院的立場原則上是尊重委員的意見，我們也當然希望各個縣市來加緊跟民眾做很好的溝通，然後使得整個案子能夠順利地在進行，您的建議我們原則尊重。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，感謝，感謝我們院長的承諾，因為這樣才不會造成民怨，一個好的政策，還是要跟地方大家做溝通才能推動，大家有個緩衝期，謝謝院長。","再來……院長，不然你先回座好了。"],["陳院長建仁：好，謝謝。"],["吳委員琪銘：我請我們交通部長。"],["王部長國材：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：部長，剛才我跟院長報告我們65的延伸，在這邊我也要特別的感謝部長，還有我們公共工程會的吳主委，因為我到那邊開會開了5、6次，總算有個定案，我也知道現在整個上網可行性評估的作業已經在做了，4月份也要做決標的動作。65的未來性、65的急迫性，因為大家都知道65……部長你在上個會期也允諾土城─三峽為優先路段，現在整個推動的情形，請部長來做說明。"],["王部長國材：是，跟委員報告，這個計畫很謝謝委員的提案，我們在行政院的桃竹苗大矽谷計畫把它列入一個重要的交通骨幹，就是從板橋尾段一直會到龍潭，整個會把它做一個延伸，目前應該是115年底會完成評估，因為它已經納入這個大矽谷計畫，後續基本上就是朝這方面來推動，就是剛才談到這些科技廊帶的發展等等，需要交通來做一個支持。當然它的優先順序是哪一段，我們目前是前段來做，如果從需要性的話，比如說北邊的先做等等，等我們可行性進行中，然後我們再做一個評估。"],["吳委員琪銘：部長，因為你看，其實國道3號會塞車都是因為短程的車流量，像我跟吳主委都對新北市……他以前在臺北縣有當過局長、當過副市長，他非常清楚，因為都是短程的車輛，尤其現在三峽臺北大學城的人口成長速度多快，兩年前四萬多人，現在已經六萬多人，整個車流量一定都暴增，再加上新北市又規劃麥仔園重劃區還有我們大柑園重劃區，未來整個人口的暴增，現在你有空到樹林交流道那邊看一下，上下班絕對大塞車，所以這65是非常非常急迫性。所以部長，不管有什麼困難，你一定要去排除，我們這個速度絕對都不能延宕。"],["王部長國材：是，它的確有兩個功能，現在就是三峽─鶯歌這個交流道和樹林交流道，甚至到土城的交流道都會塞。所以除了科技廊帶桃園跟新北串聯以外，另外一個就是國道3號的替代道路，我知道委員當時就是以這樣的想法來提出的，它身兼這兩個功能。當然從通勤的功能來講，在三峽、鶯歌到土城這一段是過去的瓶頸啦，剛才委員也提到。但是我跟委員報告，因為我們現在可行性是一直到龍潭，當然可以的話都同時完工，如果真的有什麼考量，是不是要以三峽、鶯歌、土城這個優先，我們就在這個可行性評估裡面再做一個分析。"],["吳委員琪銘：我看我們土城─三峽這邊優先路段應該先去規劃，不然你說到桃園大溪這邊的經費又非常的龐大，工期絕對會延宕，所以我們要考慮，不然你可以解決我們鶯歌這邊的車流量、三峽的車流量，還有樹林的車流量，這一個大三鶯的車流量才會順通，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好，我們在現在4月要決標的可行性裡面把它納入，是不是要偏這個來分優先順序，我們會來考慮。"],["吳委員琪銘：這是一個非常急迫性……"],["王部長國材：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：再來就是我們土城萬大捷運線，萬大捷運線在107年我跟吳秉叡、蘇巧慧，我們3位找當時的行政院長，爭取了萬大線555億。但是現在大家都知道，在這幾年標也標不出去，然後缺工、缺料整個費用一定要提升，現在我們整個費用已經要調整到770億，部長現在這個金額有沒有到位？"],["王部長國材：現在是這樣，因為除了萬大中和的第2期以外，比如說臺北市還有包括高雄市、臺中，他們的經費都有增加。目前大概在跟我們財主單位做一個討論，就是哪一些純粹是原物料上漲的，哪一些是地方政府本身要負責的，比如說當時沒有規劃好，所以我們現在會有一個這樣通盤的修改計畫的原則出來。我們現在這個原則也大致有了，所以現在也請他們按照這個原則去分析，比如說220億裡面，哪一些是純粹因為物價上漲所導致的，目前正在進行中。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為這一定要快，對於整個財務計畫的修正，因為現在樹林那一邊已經開始在施作，而土城這邊來停擺，那你中間卡在這邊，這是一個非常嚴重且急迫的問題。"],["王部長國材：是，我們會對這一個修正經費，趕快來做一個審查、趕快來處理。"],["吳委員琪銘：所以一定要趕快，因為12月1日已經標出去了嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：然後整個經費的方面還是要加快啊！"],["王部長國材：好，是。"],["吳委員琪銘：再來，就是我們三峽，當初也被交通部觀光局列入一個經典的城市，我們都知道三峽整個三峽河的整治都完成了，然後長福橋的改建現在也發包在做了，但是整個老街這個範圍裡面，就沒有一個停車場。還好國產署在我們三峽國光街那一邊，還提撥做了一個平面的停車場，但是還不敷使用，所以我們在長福橋的旁邊，一定要建造一個立體停車場。我上會期也要求我們部長，部長也允諾，只要新北市願意把整個計畫排列在前面，原則上交通部這邊我們的前瞻如果還有賸餘的部分，你會全力來補助。現在新北市已經溝通好了，我們的議員跟新北市政府溝通，將整個排列在前面，未來這個停車場是不是如我們上個會期部長你所允諾的，我們來推動？"],["王部長國材：是，我們等4月份會做一個總檢討。的確一開始在260億裡面，新北市政府並沒有把這個放在優先，現在直接放在優先，但是因為我們錢用完了，現在只剩下賸餘款，賸餘款就是有的發包不出去的縣市放棄的，到4月底、5月初會有總的檢討，我也知道新北市跟委員一樣把它放在前面，所以我們就看結餘款的狀況來支持。"],["吳委員琪銘：萬一結餘款沒有了，怎麼辦？"],["王部長國材：看有沒有下一期，可能我們內部再討論，看有沒有……"],["吳委員琪銘：部長，不能說下一期啊！新北市答應人家要排列在前面了，部長也允諾了，總不能跳票啊！"],["王部長國材：不是，現在是這樣，因為第一期是200億，第二期60億，有260億在去年都全部分配完，所以我上次答應委員的是我們有賸餘款時，把你放在優先，現在這個原則不變，但我要確定4月底、5月初有沒有結餘款，現在是這樣。"],["吳委員琪銘：4月底就可以知道了嗎？"],["王部長國材：4月底、5月初，我們已經請各地方，比如說發包不出去的趕快計畫退回等等，現在還不知道經費剩多少。"],["吳委員琪銘：這樣，那部長對民眾的……好，時間到了。好，那就拜託囉，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["吳委員琪銘：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員琪銘，謝謝交通部的備詢。","接下來請登記第12號，吳委員沛憶質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":97.641,"end":97.661,"text":"﹚吳琪銘"},{"start":125.476,"end":125.496,"text":"吳琪銘議員"},{"start":145.768,"end":146.388,"text":"好,非常感謝,感謝院長。"},{"start":173.946,"end":181.654,"text":"議員長,土層這個地方我們有一個司法延期有84公頃目前正在動工當中屬於"},{"start":182.571,"end":182.591,"text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":207.611,"end":225.899,"text":"科技園區我們都需要土地嘛那這個地方是我本席認為我們所推動是更為方便更便利我們一些高科技他們的進駐是不是院長這個地方我們共同來推動有沒有問題"},{"start":226.796,"end":240.928,"text":"我想要形成一個生態共融生活圈,然後讓它變成一個都市發展的典範,我想這也是一個很好的構想,那使得整個的產業有一個很好的聚落,我想這也是一個很有遠見的看法。"},{"start":242.126,"end":259.526,"text":"對,因為我們一些高科技廠商他們都知道只要是土地的起得有困難那要是我們這個國有地我們去把它推動讓高科技產業進駐土城跟三峽這個地方然後造就我們這邊的一些年輕人的就業機會"},{"start":263.137,"end":279.044,"text":"要推動之前因為我們都知道院長我們的國土計畫法明年就要實施了那明年要實施我們過去的三年在疫情期間過去的三年都停板那造成很多農民"},{"start":280.267,"end":280.287,"text":"吳琪"},{"start":297.905,"end":319.302,"text":"大家都持著反對的意見那證明說整個溝通協調的工作還不過落實因為疫情期間大家都停板那是不是本席現在又是內政的召委我本席要來提案來延長兩年那看院長你的看法如何"},{"start":319.687,"end":335.016,"text":"好,按照法律上來講的話,我們是應該在114年的10月30號就要公告國土功能的分區作為目標。現在還沒修法前,當然我們要這樣做。但是就像委員所講的,因為碰到了疫情,都沒什麼辦法。"},{"start":336.315,"end":336.335,"text":"﹚吳琪"},{"start":356.826,"end":356.846,"text":"﹚吳琪銘"},{"start":375.592,"end":395.876,"text":"好感謝感謝我們院長的承諾因為這才不會造成民怨因為我們一個好的政策我們還是要跟地方大家做溝通才能推動這大家有個反衝擊謝謝院長然後再來我就好院長不然你先回座好了我要請我們交通部長"},{"start":400.709,"end":423.964,"text":"委員好部長部長剛才我跟院長報告就是我們六五的延伸在這邊我要特別的感謝我們部長還有我們的公共工程會我們的無主委因為我到那邊開會開了五六次總算有個定案那我也知道我們現在整個上網"},{"start":425.124,"end":448.79,"text":"可行性評估的作業已經在做了那4月份也要做結標的動作那65的未來性65的急迫性因為大家都知道65在部長你上個會期會引落土城三峽為優先路段那整個現在整個推動的情形請部長來做說明"},{"start":450.549,"end":479.214,"text":"是,各位報告,這個計畫很謝謝委員的提案。那我們在行政院的桃竹苗大溪谷計畫,把它列入一個重要的交通骨幹。就是從板橋尾端一直會到龍潭,整個會把它做一個延伸。那目前這一個在應該是1、5年底會完成評估,然後後續因為它已經納入這個大溪谷計畫,基本上就是潮州方面來推動。就剛才談到"},{"start":479.774,"end":479.794,"text":"吳琪銘議員"},{"start":494.458,"end":495.119,"text":"部長,因為你看,其實國道3號會塞車"},{"start":509.756,"end":537.266,"text":"都是因為短程的車流量像我跟吳主委他都對新北市對以前在臺北縣他有幹過幾張當過副市長他非常清楚因為都是短程的車輛尤其現在三峽臺北大學城的人口成長速度多快兩年前4萬多人現在已經6萬多人那整個車流量都一定都爆增那再加上"},{"start":538.326,"end":550.866,"text":"三峽臺北大學城新北市又規劃麥子鹽重劃區還有我們的大甘鹽的重劃區那未來整個人口的暴增那現在樹林交流道"},{"start":552.594,"end":552.614,"text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":581.55,"end":611.085,"text":"北部跟這個桃園跟新北這個串聯以外另外一個就是國道3號的替代道路這一次我知道委員當時就是以這樣的這個想法來這個提出的他身兼這兩個功能那當然從通警的功能來講在這個這個三峽鷹戈到土城這一段是過去的瓶頸剛才委員提到那但是我跟委員因為我們現在其可行性是一直到龍潭那當然可以的話都同時完工"},{"start":611.899,"end":614.695,"text":"阿如果真的有什麼是不是要以這一個"},{"start":615.396,"end":644.204,"text":"三峽、英哥、土城這個優先我們就在這個可信評估裡面再做一個分析因為我看我們土城、三峽這邊優先路段先去規劃不然你說到桃園、大溪這邊的經費又非常的龐大那供期絕對會延宕那我們是先考慮不然你也可以解決我們英哥這邊的車流量三峽的車流量還有樹林的車流量這一個大山陰的車流量才會順通好不好"},{"start":644.904,"end":644.924,"text":"吳琪銘"},{"start":658.635,"end":675.62,"text":"我再來就是我們土城萬大協議縣萬大協議縣在107年我跟吳秉瑞、蘇巧慧我們三位當初的行政院長爭取了萬大縣555億但是現在大家都知道在這幾年飆也飆不出去"},{"start":677.02,"end":677.04,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":690.037,"end":715.254,"text":"是,現在是這樣,因為除了萬大綜合的這個第二期以外,比如說臺北市,還有包括高雄市、台中,他們的經費都有增加。目前大概在跟我們這個財主單位做一個討論,就是說哪一些是純粹是延誤料上漲的,哪一些是地方政府他本身要負責的,比如說當時沒有規劃好。"},{"start":716.155,"end":736.556,"text":"所以我們現在會有一個這樣通盤的這個修改計畫的原則出來。那我們現在這個原則大致有了。所以我們現在這個也請他們按照這個原則去分析。比如220億裡面哪一些是純粹這個因為物價上漲所導致的。那目前正在進行中。"},{"start":737.745,"end":756.077,"text":"因為這一定要快,你的整個財務計畫的修正,因為你現在已經樹林那邊已經開始在施裝,那你土層這邊來停擺,那你中間卡在這邊,那這是一個非常嚴重的急迫性。是,我們要趕快來對這個修正經費趕快來做一個審查,趕快來處理。"},{"start":761.909,"end":763.511,"text":"吳琪銘吳琪銘吳琪銘吳琪銘吳琪銘吳琪銘吳琪"},{"start":777.625,"end":802.559,"text":"就是我們三峽三峽當初在我們交通部觀光局列入一個經典的城市那我們都知道三峽這邊我們的整個三峽河的整治也都完成了然後長湖橋的改建現在也發報在做了但是整個老街整個這個地方的範圍裡面就沒有一個停車場"},{"start":803.519,"end":831.081,"text":"那還好我在國安署在那個我們三峽國光街那邊還提拨了做一個平面的停車場但是還不符使用因為我們在長湖橋的旁邊一定要建造一個停車場立體停車場那我上會期也要求我們部長部長也引漏只要新北市願意把整個計畫排列在前面"},{"start":832.242,"end":853.395,"text":"我們交通部這邊原則上我們的前瞻雖然還有剩餘的部分你會全力來補助那現在我新北市已經溝通好了新北市跟我們的議員跟新北市溝通將整個排列在前面那未來這個停車場是不是如我們上個會期部長你所引落的我們來推動"},{"start":854.42,"end":872.789,"text":"是,我們現在在等4月份會做一個總檢討。的確過去260億裡面在一開始新北市政府並沒有把這個放在優先,現在它直接放在優先。但是因為我們錢用完,現在剩剩餘款。剩餘款就是有的花報不出去的限制放棄的。"},{"start":873.956,"end":888.607,"text":"那這個部分就是到4月底5月初會有一個總的檢討那我也知道新北已經跟委員一樣把它放在前面所以我們就看我們捷運款的狀況來支持這樣那萬一捷運款沒有了怎麼辦"},{"start":890.691,"end":918.049,"text":"這個看有沒有下一期阿,這個我們可能內部再討論看有沒有,比如說...部長這不能說有下一期阿,我新北市答應人家你排列在前面,我們部長隱落了,總不能跳票阿。不是,現在這樣,因為我們現在第一期是200億嘛,第二期60億嘛,那現在有260億在這個去年都分配完了,全部分配完了。所以我上次答應這個委員是說我們剩一款有的時候把你放在優先嘛,"},{"start":918.803,"end":919.083,"text":"謝謝吳委員親密謝謝我們"}]}},{"id":"150289","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150289","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e6a4fe2172b209db0fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6d3f33c3fb7abcba85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"11:33:35 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12:04:23","影片長度":"00:30:48","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":1848,"end_time":"2024-03-22T12:04:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T11:33:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1231,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時33分）謝謝院長、謝謝主席。麻煩邀請我們的陳院長，還有我們工程會主委。"],["主席：請陳院長備詢、工程會備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：廖委員午安。"],["廖委員先翔：院長好。謝謝院長，其實在我來立法院第一次的委員會，算是質詢啦！在委員會的時候，第一天是工程委員會，我非常肯定我們的吳主委，他對於我的提問都是據實以告，當天的提問就是我們數位身分證的議題，吳主委跟我說明我們經過工程會的協調，是協調之後，內政部要賠給廠商2.8億元，後來也經過一些社會的討論，當天除了賠償給廠商的2.8億元，可能還有一些前面已經投入的資本，我想趁今天這個機會來跟院長確認一下，在我們的數位身分證上面，我不要講賠償，「賠償」這個字眼可能不太好，我們在數位身分證上面投資了多少資源？這些數字不包括我們行政人員的人事成本，就單純給廠商的錢，在經過社會的討論後，我們有沒有統計過到底花多少錢？"],["陳院長建仁：這部分實際上除了剛才講的2.8億以外，還有一個四點多億的經費。"],["廖委員先翔：所以總共加起來大概多少？因為有人說是14億……"],["陳院長建仁：應該是七億多。"],["廖委員先翔：七億多？"],["陳院長建仁：但是我要跟你講，那個四億多的東西實際上它還是可以……"],["廖委員先翔：有些是資本，我們可以把它當作投資。"],["陳院長建仁：對，是資本門。"],["廖委員先翔：沒問題，所以總共是七億多，每年大概還要再花6,300萬的經費做維護，所以就是每拖一天，我們每天平均大概還要花20萬的經費做設備的維護，但是實際上到目前為止還沒有任何的成效。當天我也有請吳主委幫忙做後續的追蹤，這樣的結果勢必是行政上有一些缺失，後續可能會有一些檢討，我想確認一下，工程會可能也不方便直接介入，今天院長在這邊，我直接請教院長有關數位身分證缺失的檢討報告，我們有沒有辦法提出？"],["陳院長建仁：當時數位身分證在規劃的過程中，因為接受各界的反映，所以我們就暫緩，我們對個資的保護要更強化以後才來進行，而且要取得民眾的共識。"],["廖委員先翔：這些都尊重，社會有廣泛討論了，行政單位可能會有一些檢討，我們後續是不是會做相關的檢討跟課責？"],["陳院長建仁：當然，我們會繼續檢討看看我們是不是什麼時候要再開始推動等等，但是這需要取得共識。"],["廖委員先翔：相關的檢討大概多久以內可以做成一份報告？"],["陳院長建仁：我們需要取得大家的共識，剛才講到個資保護的部分，大法官釋憲的時候有說個資保護的部分，我們需要設立一個……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，我都尊重你們後續的討論。"],["陳院長建仁：我還沒有講完，要設立一個個資保護的相關機構，個資保護的委員會目前已有籌備處，我們對個資的保護很完整以後再討論怎麼推動，所以事有先後……"],["廖委員先翔：對，這些很好。"],["陳院長建仁：事有緩急，所以我們是這樣來進行。"],["廖委員先翔：這都很好，我都尊重。至少在賠償的部分，我們行政院後續會不會做相關的檢討報告？會不會？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分我剛才已經講過，最重要的部分是因為我們全民還沒有得到共識……"],["廖委員先翔：院長，會不會有檢討報告？講會或不會。"],["陳院長建仁：還沒有達到共識……"],["廖委員先翔：會或不會？"],["陳院長建仁：我們最後要看看這個事情到底……"],["廖委員先翔：你的檢討報告也可以提出來說你們做得很好、沒有錯啊！我們都尊重，我只是想要說能不能提供一份報告。"],["陳院長建仁：剛才講我們是……"],["廖委員先翔：後續要怎麼推動可以寫在裡面。"],["陳院長建仁：但是要看看要不要繼續推動，如果要繼續推動，要怎麼檢討呢？對不對？"],["廖委員先翔：階段性的檢討可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：等到個資保護的機構出來，大家對個資保護有完整的瞭解，我們再來看數位身分證到底要不要推，如果還是要推，有什麼要檢討嗎？"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，今天院長在這邊的回答就是目前數位身分證執行到這個階段，引發社會的一些討論，我們行政院不用做任何的檢討報告。"],["陳院長建仁：因為大家對個資……"],["廖委員先翔：我尊重、我尊重，這是院長的回答。"],["陳院長建仁：大家對個資保護……"],["廖委員先翔：行政院認為不用做任何的檢討報告，是吧？對不對？不用嘛？你們後續會再繼續推。"],["陳院長建仁：這個個資保護委員會是一個獨立的機關……"],["廖委員先翔：我尊重、我尊重，這個話題到這邊，謝謝我們的院長。","接下來的問題，我就提一下地方的建設，跟院長報告、分享一下，我們汐止人非常熱愛大眾運輸工具，一些背景資料先跟院長報告。我們汐止有三個火車站，包括汐科火車站，每天的運量大概2萬，在臺鐵裡面排名第15名，汐止火車站也大概2萬，排名第17名，汐止跟汐科兩個加起來在臺鐵的貢獻大概4萬，兩站加起來在全國的排名大概會落在第7名，也就是在板橋站之後、在新竹站之前，也就是說我們汐止人非常願意響應國家政策來搭乘大眾運輸工具。這個圖片是板南線南港展覽館捷運站6號出口每天晚上排隊搭乘的民眾，這裡的民眾除了汐止，還有基隆的民眾都會在這邊接駁，所以我們汐止的民眾長期以來都有一個訴求，希望板南線是不是有機會延伸到汐止，過去在相關的討論中，因為臺鐵第三軌卡住軌道的關係，沒有辦法做延伸，這是一些背景資料先跟院長報告。後來基隆捷運推動了之後，決定把第三軌的路廊讓出來，把它廢掉給基隆捷運來使用，我們汐止人不禁就會想，現在既然臺鐵第三軌可以讓基隆捷運路廊使用，為何不能讓板南線來做延伸，這是我們汐止人的一個疑惑。所以在公布方案之後，舉辦地方說明會也有許多人都提出了相關建議，鐵道局在當天的地方說明會會後也承諾會把這個評估報告，就是板南線延伸汐止樟樹灣納入基隆捷運的規劃當中，代表這個案子是地方可能有更多的期待。我認為因為基隆捷運的案子是在今年1月31號核定，行政院核定，對不對？部長點頭嘛！其實在這麼有爭議的建設當中，我非常不解，其實大家都說在大選過後的內閣叫看守內閣，對不對？看守內閣適合去核定一個爭議度還相當高的地方建設嗎？這個是非常的……"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得你的……"],["廖委員先翔：好的，沒關係，您可以說明。"],["陳院長建仁：問法很奇怪，沒有所謂「看守內閣」這樣的4個字，任何內閣都需要好好的做事，做到這個內閣下臺為止，所以任何時間都要做事，沒有看守內閣不做事的道理。第二個，這個捷運路線，你剛才講到板南線的部分，如果你要跟板南線接，要跟臺北市政府來提出評估可行性，因為捷運是由地方政府來規劃推動嘛！同樣的，基隆捷運也是同樣的情形，是基隆市政府提出來，我們這邊來核定……"],["廖委員先翔：所以我們……"],["陳院長建仁：中央、地方的權責要分清楚，你才能夠問政。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們持開放態度嗎？你們持開放態度嗎？"],["王部長國材：不是，委員……"],["廖委員先翔：很遺憾的，立法院是2月1號新的任期，在新的民意進來立法院之前，地方民眾有許多意見希望透過新的立法委員來立法院表達意見，結果在我就任的前一天卻核定了地方有非常大分歧的地方建設。"],["王部長國材：委員，你講地方有疑慮，你要不要問侯市長要不要做？要不要問蔣萬安市長要不要做？"],["廖委員先翔：對。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["王部長國材：謝國樑市長要不要做？"],["陳院長建仁：是啊！"],["廖委員先翔：沒問題啊！我都會去問啊！"],["王部長國材：三個市要做基隆捷運啊！"],["廖委員先翔：沒有問題啊！"],["王部長國材：對。現在你……"],["廖委員先翔：沒問題，就行政院目前的態度，後續可不可以做一些討論？因為行政院當初做的一些報告很多都與實際的情況不符，可以說是先射箭再畫靶。"],["王部長國材：不是，哪些不符？我不知道是哪些不符？這個是3縣市跟交通部討論出來的。"],["廖委員先翔：我們原方案裡面提出，你們大概心裡有……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我剛才講過，捷運是由地方政府來規劃推動，所以在這個過程當中，三個市政府北北基都已經同意的方案，基隆捷運這樣送過來，所以中央來決定，如果你要改變，可以啊！那就跟臺北市政府、新北市政府，還要再去談啊！"],["廖委員先翔：可以啊！"],["陳院長建仁：那你談出來新的看法……"],["廖委員先翔：所以院長，沒關係，院長現在是……"],["陳院長建仁：基隆市政府去跟新北市跟臺北市去談你們的計畫是什麼，再來看啊！"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們持開放態度，對不對？"],["王部長國材：不是，我跟委員提一點，比如說你關心的汐止跟汐科，如果藍線到樟樹灣站，汐止跟汐科都要在樟樹灣轉乘，你知道嗎？但是現在搭基隆捷運是直接到南港站，瞭解嗎？"],["廖委員先翔：到南港站還不是要搭板南線轉乘？"],["王部長國材：不是，可是你……"],["廖委員先翔：我們的目的地又不是南港站。"],["王部長國材：當然你看到汐科、汐止這麼多，他們全部擠在樟樹灣轉乘，所以這個應該是過去式的，以前就是不延嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！"],["王部長國材：最後我們用基隆捷運來cover板南線的延伸段。"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得要整個基隆來考量，不要只為了一個區來考量，這樣委員你是代表整個基隆市長……"],["廖委員先翔：我們當然可以為基隆來考量。"],["陳院長建仁：代表整個基隆市……"],["廖委員先翔：我從來沒有說反對延伸到基隆，我們是就部分中間路段爭議的路線還有沒有討論的空間嘛！"],["王部長國材：我是覺得是重疊了，真的重疊了。"],["廖委員先翔：有沒有討論空間？"],["王部長國材：我個人是覺得幾乎沒有討論空間。"],["陳院長建仁：當時已經討論過了。"],["王部長國材：因為現在基隆捷運已經走這個路線到南港站，你現在從南港要再把它延伸，那不是重疊了嗎？"],["廖委員先翔：所以說部分的路線，南港展覽館到樟樹灣站這個部分，我們地方的訴求，部長很清楚嘛！就是用板南線來延伸，基隆捷運過樟樹灣到基隆的部分就繼續推動嘛！因為它是跟汐東捷運結合嘛，沒錯吧？"],["王部長國材：不是，這樣你又走回頭路了。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["王部長國材：以前臺北市不願意做這一段，後來在……"],["廖委員先翔：以前不願意，我剛才一開始就跟你們說明過了，當初都是用第三軌當理由嘛，對不對？"],["王部長國材：沒有，委員，我跟你報告，現在綜合規劃已經核定，現在新北市政府當主辦單位也要開始做了，你現在再重來，就變成再回到過去了。"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，我就是要跟院長跟部長確認，地方政府的態度由地方政府自己去承擔，中央單位對於這樣的核定計畫還有沒有討論空間去做調整？有或沒有？"],["王部長國材：我覺得沒有了，因為我路線跟你重疊了，我現在是走輕軌到南港展覽館，現在你要從南港展覽館到樟樹灣，又變成藍線的延伸，我是覺得這個……"],["廖委員先翔：所以汐止人真的很可憐啦！當初汐東捷運在規劃時，這個路線也拖了很久，部長也非常清楚，臺北市端對於要不要做有許多意見，案子擱置了，導致對於我們汐止人沒有意見的案子，因為臺北市的擱置，整個案子拖到現在才分段施工。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["廖委員先翔：結果今天一條捷運要經過汐止，完全不用尊重汐止人的意見，就為了當初某某人的一句話、講出來的政策要來達成……"],["王部長國材：沒有、沒有，我們公聽會……"],["廖委員先翔：地方的意見完全不採納，地方做的地方說明會、要你們做的報告，裡面錯誤也一堆，拿這錯誤的報告來給地方政府！"],["王部長國材：不是，那你要舉例是哪些錯誤，我現在就回答你，你是指哪些錯誤？"],["廖委員先翔：好，可以，原方案基隆捷運……我先請問基隆捷運當初設置的目的是什麼？是不是要銜接臺北市？"],["王部長國材：現在我們可以搭到南港站。"],["廖委員先翔：所以銜接臺北市是基隆捷運設置一個很大的目的，對不對？"],["王部長國材：其中之一。"],["廖委員先翔：一個很大的目的。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["廖委員先翔：然後你們在報告裡面寫基隆捷運轉板南線的人次比例只有6.74%，也就是多數基隆捷運搭乘的民眾都是在基隆捷運的範圍通勤，所以這個報告不就跟我們當初的訴求完全相違背了嗎？反駁板南線延伸的理由是因為基隆捷運搭乘的人不會去搭板南線，所以不會有需求做板南線的延伸，是吧？"],["王部長國材：不是，不是這樣。"],["廖委員先翔：不然您說。"],["王部長國材：如果當時的市政府願意把板南線延伸，可是這件事情拖很久，你談到為什麼侯市長要做汐東線，最後沒辦法，他覺得這部分還是請交通部來協助，所以我們現在這一段也包括……"],["廖委員先翔：一直以來都是臺鐵第三軌的原因嘛！一開始就已經先做背景說明了，臺鐵第三軌的原因拿掉之後，板南線延伸汐止的最大障礙就拿掉了嘛。"],["王部長國材：不是這個原因，是當時的臺北市政府不想做民生汐止線，侯市長希望做尾端這一段，您瞭解嘛！"],["廖委員先翔：那是汐東啊。"],["王部長國材：對，所以現在就是這樣，因為民生汐止線沒做，如果民生汐止線從頭做到尾的話，這當然是可行，現在是最後新北覺得這一段必須要跟中央的基隆捷運結合起來，才有汐東線跟基隆捷運兩個整合的案子。"],["廖委員先翔：對啊。"],["王部長國材：現在你再回到那邊，我覺得整個又回到過去了，現在已經要設計了，新北市政府要做設計了。"],["廖委員先翔：不是，我們完全沒有動到汐東啊，哪裡動到汐東？"],["王部長國材：現在已經在發包了。"],["廖委員先翔：我們板南線延伸哪裡動到汐東了？"],["王部長國材：不是，它有一段，您瞭解嗎？樟樹灣到汐止……"],["廖委員先翔：報告裡面就寫沒有了啊！"],["王部長國材：共段。"],["廖委員先翔：共段在基隆輕軌啊！"],["王部長國材：不是。"],["廖委員先翔：所以我就說基隆輕軌當初要往基隆方向不動嘛，現在板南線就延伸到樟樹灣站而已啊。"],["王部長國材：你這樣……我跟你講……"],["廖委員先翔：這個圖可以看一下。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，你這樣會讓你汐止的選民……現在基隆捷運是搭到汐止站、汐科站就直接到南港展覽館，如果這樣做他們以後都要搭臺鐵到樟樹灣站再轉……"],["陳院長建仁：不通啦！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳院長建仁：捷運有捷運的體系，然後臺北市……"],["廖委員先翔：剛剛部長講是在樟樹灣站轉或南港展覽館站轉嘛，總是要轉一次，對不對？問題是樟樹灣站跟汐科站那麼大，以我們汐止人的通勤需求，我們很好去做公車調度轉接到樟樹灣站，樟樹灣站在汐止的核心地帶，很好用大眾運輸工具做接駁。"],["王部長國材：當時到南港站是因為有高鐵，這個也跟委員報告。"],["廖委員先翔：什麼東西到南港站？"],["王部長國材：南港站有高鐵，樟樹灣不會有高鐵。"],["陳院長建仁：大家方便啦！"],["王部長國材：所以轉到南港站就是可以搭高鐵。"],["陳院長建仁：汐止的人也方便……"],["廖委員先翔：問題是你們的報告就寫說，基隆捷運到板南線的轉乘率只有6.74%、每天8,580人，這是你們寫的啊！"],["王部長國材：不是，轉乘，比如說……"],["廖委員先翔：所以我必須要回過來說，一份檢討報告如果能夠讓人家信服，我們都會尊重，但是當地方的民眾提出建議之後、鐵道局也答應要做了，結果後續的報告卻與我們地方民眾所瞭解的事實有很大的差異，你要拿這一份報告來塞我們汐止民眾的嘴，大家吞不下去啊！"],["陳院長建仁：沒有人要塞民眾的嘴。"],["王部長國材：公聽會都開過，大家就是這樣做。"],["廖委員先翔：公聽會開過！你檢討報告做出來有跟大家討論過嗎？"],["王部長國材：不是，委員……"],["廖委員先翔：網路上有那麼多的質疑，你們有回應過嗎？"],["王部長國材：不是，你現在回到過去，這一段根本沒有人要做，我們最後把這一段……"],["廖委員先翔：哪一段沒有人要做？"],["王部長國材：以前民生汐止線尾端，當時就是雙北在吵這一段，它最後不做我就先做尾端……"],["廖委員先翔：做尾端沒錯呀！"],["王部長國材：過去被稱為盲腸線啊。"],["廖委員先翔：不好意思，字比較小一點，樟樹灣……我們的藍色，看左邊箭頭最下面的藍色是板南線，它只到樟樹灣；而汐東捷運跟基隆捷運就是從樟樹灣到汐科共構，也就是板南線的延伸完全不會影響到共構的部分，這應該是非常清楚的，不用拿共構這件事情出來講，板南線在報告裡面也完全沒有扯到會不會影響到共構的部分、會不會影響到基隆捷運延伸到基隆的部分，完全沒有提到嘛！"],["王部長國材：委員，現在已經進行到要施工了……"],["廖委員先翔：汐東捷運要施工了，誰反對？沒有人反對啊！"],["王部長國材：汐東捷運這一段是基隆捷運的一段，我再講一次，樟樹灣到汐止區公所是那一段，現在要發包了，現在你再回頭講這個N年前……"],["廖委員先翔：所以我要講的是南港展覽館到樟樹灣站，這段跟汐東捷運完全沒有任何關係啊！"],["王部長國材：我問你，如果你現在回來，那基隆捷運從樟樹灣到南港展覽館要不要做？如果不做……"],["廖委員先翔：對！我建議再討論。"],["王部長國材：那你要翻案啊，那你要跟雙北來談。"],["廖委員先翔：可以啊！"],["王部長國材：如果你要這樣的話，就是……"],["廖委員先翔：當然可以啊！"],["王部長國材：如果這樣的話，要從可行性開始做延伸。"],["陳院長建仁：對，做可行性評估。"],["王部長國材：這個意思是臺北市政府重新開始做延伸，這個要走很多年。"],["廖委員先翔：是呀！"],["王部長國材：效果差不多。"],["陳院長建仁：所以委員，你如果堅持你這個想法，為了汐止區的想法……"],["廖委員先翔：我是汐止的民意代表，我當然為汐止區人民講話。"],["陳院長建仁：沒錯，如果你這樣的方式，那就從頭……"],["王部長國材：要從頭來喔。"],["陳院長建仁：從頭開始、從可行性開始嘛，我就講過，你要跟地方政府在推動這個捷運建設要好好去想。"],["廖委員先翔：可以啊，誰反對誰就自己來面對汐止的民眾啊！對不對？我的訴求很簡單。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，他們已經決定蓋囉，而且可以蓋下去囉，那你叫他不要蓋……"],["廖委員先翔：哪裡已經蓋了，你才剛核定是蓋什麼啦！"],["王部長國材：現在設計，準備要施工了。"],["廖委員先翔：那是汐東捷運，你一直把汐東捷運跟板南線延伸這兩個混在一起！"],["王部長國材：對，您知道基隆捷運綜合規劃核定、環評過了，你知道嗎？你知道接下來是什麼嗎？就是設計施工。"],["廖委員先翔：是啊，所以還沒施工嘛。"],["王部長國材：是啊，所以未來就是要進行啊。"],["廖委員先翔：你一個數位身分證都可以隨便說喊卡，就喊卡！這個百年的建設不用考慮到地方的訴求？"],["王部長國材：是啊。"],["廖委員先翔：我的訴求很簡單，整條基隆捷運我不想去影響到基隆市民的權益，沒有爭議的路段我們沒有要擋它，從樟樹灣到基隆這一段已經核定了，我們就全力地來施作，因為它也可以跟現有的汐東線來做整合，就是剛剛兩位一直在提的共構、共軌段這邊完全沒有任何的爭議，我當然也希望全力地來推動。那現在要提的就是南港站到樟樹灣的部分，重啟板南線延伸的評估。"],["王部長國材：委員，這個你上次已經有決議了，我們也請臺北市去做評估，但是做了以後這一段的基隆捷運就不做了，你要重新啟動是現在開始喔！現在開始是什麼意思？可行性、綜合規劃、環評……"],["廖委員先翔：我知道，建設是百年大計，我們不能因為求快，設計了一個方案，然後被我們的後代罵死，一個方案這樣子做下去了，我們現在的民意代表沒有辦法面對以後汐止的後代啦！"],["陳院長建仁：你現在如果要這樣做，那就啟動啊？"],["王部長國材：重來啊！這樣重來啊！"],["陳院長建仁：重來啊！你就啟動啊！"],["王部長國材：所有臺北……就是重來嘛？"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係……"],["陳院長建仁：啟動以後，你影響的……"],["廖委員先翔：我不是說要或不要，我只是要我們的行政院是不是能夠保持一個開放的態度去針對爭議的路段重新做一個詳細的報告。"],["陳院長建仁：你現在如果要啟動樟樹灣到南港的板南線延伸，這個事情就是影響到基隆捷運，影響基隆捷運的時候，你就要讓地方政府來做評估……"],["廖委員先翔：我說這沒問題、我說這沒問題，我們會去溝通……"],["陳院長建仁：說沒問題是你講的嘛，不是市政府講的啦！"],["廖委員先翔：那好啦！我去跟地方政府講的時候，地方政府說你要先去跟行政院講啊！每個人都推給別人，對不對？每一個行政單位要有自己的態度嘛，對不對？我現在是立法委員，我當然是問中央的態度啊！"],["王部長國材：地方政府會這樣講就是它也不反對……"],["陳院長建仁：地方政府會這樣講就是甩鍋給中央政府的意思啦！你再聽清楚地方政府的意見啦！"],["廖委員先翔：我當初在當議員的時候，在總質詢的時候問，那時候劉和然代理市長他也是跟我說持開放態度啊！我只要確認各單位都是持開放的態度，我們就有進一步的討論嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：交通部把案子給市政府，市政府到現在都沒有表達意見，所以你要去問市政府的意見，這才是做事情的方式啦！"],["廖委員先翔：如果市政府明確把民眾的意見傳達給行政院……"],["陳院長建仁：市政府表達意見以後再說嘛！"],["王部長國材：再討論。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！市政府表達意見以後再說嘛！"],["廖委員先翔：有討論的空間嘛？"],["王部長國材：這個案子要核定很不容易，已經核定，要給經費了喔！"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["王部長國材：現在你要重來開始，這個是重新了啦！就是再回到……"],["廖委員先翔：部分爭議的路段重來，相關的政治責任，我敢提，我當然敢擔啊！"],["王部長國材：不是你的政治責任，你要問地方政府同不同意，如果三個市政府都同意……"],["廖委員先翔：第一，我只問汐止的居民同不同意……"],["王部長國材：那不行，那你要問基隆啊！基隆同不同意……"],["廖委員先翔：汐止居民同意，當然基隆這邊、新北市政府這邊我們來做溝通嘛，對不對？"],["王部長國材：基隆是這樣啊！他從八堵就是一車到南港站，現在你就是到……"],["廖委員先翔：你這個路線到時候變成一個Y字型的路廊，你自己學交通的，你知道Y字型的路廊在運輸效率上面多差！"],["陳院長建仁：你如果這樣說，你就跟基隆市政府說清楚、跟新北市政府說清楚嘛？"],["廖委員先翔：我會啊！"],["陳院長建仁：兩個市政府如果同意，你就……"],["王部長國材：要說服他們。"],["陳院長建仁：但是現在交通部就把案子給他們了，你就去問一下他們的意見啊！他們如果說這要中央來決定……就甩鍋嘛！"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係啦！好啦！我就不鬼打牆了啦！還有下面一個議題啦！不鬼打牆了！我們持開放態度嘛？沒關係，地方政府要來溝通，我來溝通嘛！"],["王部長國材：他們如果要做可行性就重新來喔！我是覺得看他要……"],["廖委員先翔：好，不能因為這個東西來去卡樟樹灣到基隆的部分嘛，對不對？樟樹灣到基隆的部分沒有爭議的部分就繼續吧！"],["王部長國材：基隆捷運也改了，樟樹灣這樣要變成轉運站，我要重新再……都動到了。"],["陳院長建仁：都動到了。"],["廖委員先翔：你們的評估報告裡面就是用不會動到的方案去評估嘛！部長你自己的評估報告都沒有看過，然後現在來跟我講這些！"],["陳院長建仁：所有的建設案如果可以這樣子玩的話，玩不完啦！所以要的話，你就從頭開始可行性評估啊！然後重新環評啊！重新綜合規劃然後再來做……"],["廖委員先翔：當然啊！這是程序啊！我有說不對嗎？"],["王部長國材：現在都核定也給經費了、也要做了，你這樣是回頭路、真的是回頭路了。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，下一個議題，院長，我想跟你確認一下，我們旁邊的王國材部長有沒有被調包過？確認是本人嗎？"],["王部長國材：是我沒錯。"],["廖委員先翔：去年的王國材是今年的王國材嘛？有一部漫畫叫獵人，裡面有一個角色叫兇狸狐，他變成人的形狀，然後模仿人的樣子，連講話的樣子都一樣，有一段話部長去年講了，我請部長確認一下這是不是您本人講的。","（播放影片）"],["王部長國材：是啊！現在也是這樣。"],["廖委員先翔：是部長講的嘛，對不對？"],["王部長國材：現在也是這樣。"],["廖委員先翔：好，可不可以部長再重複一遍？可以再重複講一遍嗎？還是我播一次你再講一遍？"],["王部長國材：交通部現在以行人路權優先，包括我們4年400億的計畫、包括各個條例的修正，現在都朝這方面在進行。"],["廖委員先翔：反正就是在任部長一天，以行人路權的改革跟交通安全當作最重要的一件事情。"],["王部長國材：這是最重要的一個施政政策。"],["廖委員先翔：最重要的事情？"],["王部長國材：沒錯，是。"],["廖委員先翔：你說你會跟路權團體並肩作戰，希望他們當你最強的後盾。當然現在路權團體，你也知道我現在要講什麼嘛！就是微罪不舉發、不記點這件事情，您認為符合您說行人路權的改革跟交通安全是您當作最重要的一件事情這句話嗎？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，現在我的確在道安跟民怨中間要取個平衡點，事實上你們汐止也知道啊！路邊停車多困難……"],["廖委員先翔：安全怎麼跟民怨取得一個平衡點？"],["王部長國材：所以他不得不違規停車，這件事情是很多聲音都給我了，所以我們現在權宜的調整，但是我們相關的行人設施，包括穿越道、包括人行道都繼續在建設，因此我說這個是目前的一個權宜修法，不代表我們對行人的建設……"],["廖委員先翔：微罪不記點，就是行政院送來立法院的版本，包括人行道對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["廖委員先翔：誰會逼不得已去停人行道？"],["王部長國材：誰怎麼樣？"],["廖委員先翔：誰會逼不得已去停人行道？"],["王部長國材：不是，你……"],["陳院長建仁：道路沒有改善以前就有可能啊！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["廖委員先翔：所以……"],["陳院長建仁：所以我們送來的法案……"],["廖委員先翔：所以停人行道這件事情在院長的眼裡看起來是稀鬆平常的事情，是不是？"],["陳院長建仁：所以我們會送……"],["廖委員先翔：其實說真的啦！"],["陳院長建仁：兩個法案過來……"],["廖委員先翔：大家都有壓力、大家都有壓力，駕駛團體有很多的訴求……"],["陳院長建仁：一個是道路設施的條例，一個就是相關的記點條例，任何人在執政的時候都一定要考慮到全部所有用路人的權益，行人安全很重要，駕駛人也很重要。"],["廖委員先翔：所以讓汽車去停人行道沒有關係？"],["陳院長建仁：但是這一個是……"],["廖委員先翔：不得已、我沒有地方停，我可以去停人行道？"],["陳院長建仁：不，那個還是照罰喔！"],["王部長國材：照罰。"],["陳院長建仁：罰款照罰，只是不記點，你要搞清楚，就是照罰不記點。"],["廖委員先翔：包括不能檢舉嘛，對不對？"],["王部長國材：不是，我跟各位報告……"],["廖委員先翔：不能舉發、不記點嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：而且民調結果有72%的人贊成這樣的講法喔！"],["王部長國材：對，因為你……"],["陳院長建仁：贊成我們現在的作法。"],["王部長國材：事實上違規停車，你打電話，地方的拖吊車就拖走了，你知道嗎？"],["廖委員先翔：嗯。"],["王部長國材：現在只是說民眾檢舉氾濫，我們是希望在微罪裡面讓民眾檢舉降低一點，可是並不是不罰喔！"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！"],["王部長國材：你看到車停人行道，你打給警察局就拖走了。"],["廖委員先翔：執法強度降低就是變相鼓勵嘛！"],["王部長國材：沒有強度降低啊！"],["廖委員先翔：沒有降低？"],["王部長國材：沒有降低，你……"],["廖委員先翔：還包括我們勸導……"],["王部長國材：照罰、照罰，你打電話給警察局照罰。"],["廖委員先翔：去年交通部給警政署可以勸導的原則，還包括我們現在停在人行道，民眾檢舉都沒辦法檢舉了。"],["王部長國材：不是，不能檢舉不代表不罰，你可以打給警察局或是看專線是多少，1999還是其他，來就馬上拖掉了，可以……"],["陳院長建仁：還是要處罰啊！"],["王部長國材：警察都在啊！"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，剩下一點時間，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：委員……"],["廖委員先翔：剩下一點時間，有些東西是行政權的問題啦！我要再拜託部長，可不可以跟我一起摸著良心把您上次說過的話再說一次？"],["王部長國材：我不用說啊！我剛才已經說過了，就是……"],["廖委員先翔：可不可以在這邊再宣示一次？"],["王部長國材：行人路權……"],["廖委員先翔：院長願不願意再把當天跟大眾承諾的話再宣示一次？"],["王部長國材：我不用講，我現在就實際在做了，包括我們的經費、條例出來了。"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，宣示更容易，院長願不願意宣示上次在路權團體舉辦活動時所講的話？"],["陳院長建仁：我們提出來的辦法……"],["廖委員先翔：願不願意宣示？"],["陳院長建仁：就是照著這樣做。"],["廖委員先翔：很遺憾，院長去年講的話今年不願意再講一遍，真的非常遺憾。"],["王部長國材：不是，去年講的話現在在做了。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員先翔的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，上午的質詢到此為止，下午2時30分繼續進行交通組之質詢。現在休息，謝謝。","休息（12時4分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":36,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1131401_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.488468750000003,"end":18.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.67346875,"end":20.297843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.95596875,"end":22.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.356593750000002,"end":22.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.352218750000002,"end":25.883468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.047843750000002,"end":27.570968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.570968750000002,"end":27.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.75221875,"end":28.785968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.785968750000002,"end":29.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.051593750000002,"end":30.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.06846875,"end":31.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.29596875,"end":38.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.74221875,"end":45.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.57659375,"end":58.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.84034375,"end":78.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.55034375000001,"end":80.65971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.31784375000001,"end":83.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.59596875000001,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.50284375000001,"end":88.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.16471875,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.93096875,"end":106.78221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.17034375,"end":107.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.72721875,"end":107.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.94659375,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.96346875,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.03096875,"end":108.11534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.11534375000001,"end":108.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start"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問侯市長要不要做?要不要問蔣萬次長要不要做?謝國昌市長要不要做?三個希望做基隆捷運啊。"},{"start":542.079,"end":542.239,"text":"委員我想"},{"start":566.158,"end":586.667,"text":"我剛才講過捷運是由地方政府來規劃來推動所以在這個過程當中三個市政府都已經北北基都同意的這個方案然後送過來基隆捷運這樣送過來所以中央來決定那如果是你要改變可以啊那就跟"},{"start":587.547,"end":612.109,"text":"臺北市政府、新北市政府還要再去談啊。那你談出來新的看法,你請現在的基隆市政府去跟新北市跟臺北市去談,談你們的計畫是什麼啊。你再來看啊。所以我們持開放態度嘛對不對。我跟委員提一點啦齁,比如說你關心了矽子跟矽科,如果藍線到張書安站,矽子跟矽科都要在張書安轉成你知道嗎。"},{"start":612.529,"end":631.72,"text":"但是現在大家基隆捷運是直接到南港站,了解嗎?到南港站還不是要大家把南線轉成?不是,可是你看到細顆細子這麼多,他們全部擠在張書安轉成,所以這個應該是過去式的,以前就是不演嘛,最後我們用基隆捷運來cover這個延伸段,南線的延伸段。"},{"start":632.16,"end":653.315,"text":"我覺得要整個基隆來考量不要只為了一個區來考量這樣委員你是代表整個基隆市我從來沒有說反對這個延伸到基隆我們就是部分中間路段的爭議的路線還有沒有討論的空間嗎我是覺得是重疊了真的重疊有沒有討論空間我個人是覺得"},{"start":654.31,"end":677.225,"text":"幾乎沒有考論,因為現在基隆捷運已經走這個路線到南港站,你現在從南港要再把它延伸,那不是重疊了嗎?所以說部分的路線,南港達南港到張樹灣站這個部分,我們地方的訴求,部長很清楚嘛,就是用板南線來延伸嘛,那基隆捷運過張樹灣到基隆的部分,"},{"start":677.805,"end":679.246,"text":"我剛剛一開始就跟你們說明過了第三軌嘛對不對"},{"start":692.168,"end":707.194,"text":"當初都是用第三個月當理由嗎?沒有,我跟你報告,現在已經中委會要合訂,現在新北市政府要當主辦當然也要做了喔,你現在再重來就是這個再回到過去了沒關係,我就是要跟我們院長跟部長來確認地方政府"},{"start":711.038,"end":736.955,"text":"的態度地方政府自己去承擔。我們中央單位對於這樣子的一個合定的計畫還有沒有討論的空間去做調整?有或沒有?我覺得沒有了。因為我路線跟你重疊了啊。我現在是走我的輕軌到南港展覽館。你現在南港展覽館到張刷又變成這個南線的延伸。我是覺得這個...所以汐止人真的很可憐啊。汐止人很可憐。當初西東捷運的時候在規劃的時候"},{"start":740.163,"end":756.545,"text":"這個路線拖了很久部長也非常清楚臺北市端對於要不要做有許多的意見案子擱置了導致我們汐止了沒有意見的案子因為臺北市的擱置我們整個案子拖到現在才分段來施工結果今天"},{"start":758.12,"end":786.343,"text":"一條捷運要經過細子完全不用尊重細子人的意見然後就為了當初某某人的一句話講出來的政策要把它來達成地方的意見完全不採納地方做的地方說明會要你們做的報告裡面錯誤有一堆拿這錯誤的報告來給地方政府不是不是那你要捷運是哪些錯誤我現在就回答你你是指哪些錯誤可以好原方案我們基隆捷運我先請問我們基隆捷運當初設置的目的是什麼"},{"start":787.003,"end":788.384,"text":"基隆捷運轉板南線的人次比例"},{"start":809.042,"end":836.178,"text":"只有6.74%也就是多數基隆捷運搭乘的民眾都是在自己基隆捷運裡面的範圍裡面去通勤那這個做出來的報告不就跟我們當初的訴求完全相違背了嗎?我們做出來我們反駁板南線延伸的理由是因為說我們基隆捷運搭乘的人我們不會去搭板南線所以我們沒有這個需求來做板南線的延伸不是"},{"start":840.102,"end":849.91,"text":"如果當時在以前的市政府他願意把阪南縣延伸可是這件事情拖很久才你談到為什麼侯市長要做這個西東縣"},{"start":851.616,"end":872.698,"text":"但是最後沒辦法他覺得這部分還是請交通部來協助所以我們現在這一段一直以來都是台鐵第三軌的原因嘛就一開始先對背景的說明了嘛台鐵第三軌的原因拿掉了之後把南線延伸汐止的最大障礙拿掉了嘛不是這個原因是民生汐止線當時的台北市政府不想做"},{"start":874.28,"end":898.855,"text":"市長希望做這個尾段這一段,您了解嗎?那是西東嗎?對,所以現在就這樣,因為你民進行沒做,你如果民進行從頭做到尾,這當然是可行。現在是最後在新北覺得說這一段要必須跟中央基隆捷運結合起來,才有西東線跟基隆捷運兩個整合的這個案子。現在你再回到那邊去,我覺得這個整個都又回到過去了,現在已經"},{"start":899.744,"end":901.584,"text":"我現在板南縣就延伸到張樹灣站而已啊。"},{"start":929.871,"end":944.645,"text":"我跟你講齁,老公沒辦法,你這樣會讓你的汐止的選民齁,現在基隆捷運是搭在汐止站、汐客站就直接到南港站。你現在以後他們這一些都要搭台鐵到張樹灣站再轉你的那個。"},{"start":948.588,"end":951.829,"text":"當時大南港站是因為有高鐵,我再跟各位報告。"},{"start":977.295,"end":982.657,"text":"問題是你們的報告就寫說基隆捷運到阪南縣的轉乘率只有6.74%每天8580人啊這是你們寫的啊我必須要回過來說一份檢討報告如果說他能夠讓人家幸福"},{"start":1007.608,"end":1024.676,"text":"我們都會尊重但是當地方的民眾提出建議之後我們鐵道局也答應要做了結果後續的報告卻是與我們地方的民眾所了解的事實有許多的很大的一個差異你要拿這一份報告來塞我們汐止民眾的嘴"},{"start":1025.939,"end":1030.761,"text":"你現在回到過去,這一段根本沒有人要做,我們最後把這一段接上來。"},{"start":1047.301,"end":1051.122,"text":"張素安我們的藍色如果說看左邊的箭頭最下面藍色那是阪南線他指到張素安而西東捷運跟基隆捷運"},{"start":1077.52,"end":1079.761,"text":"那位,你現在已經進行施工了"},{"start":1107.032,"end":1131.195,"text":"西東捷運要施工了,誰反對?沒有人反對過啊?欸,西東捷運這一段是基隆捷運的一段。我再講一次,張樹灣到汐止驅工所是那一段。現在花包了,現在你再回頭講,這個只能二年前...所以我要講的是南港展覽館到張樹灣站。這段跟西東捷運完全沒有任何關係啊。我問你喔。"},{"start":1132.611,"end":1159.179,"text":"如果你現在回來就是那表示我的基隆捷運從張樹灣到南港產專要不要做?如果不做我建議再討論那你要跟雙北來談可以啊當然可以啊然後如果這樣的話要從可行性開始做延伸這個意思台北市政府要重新開始做延伸這個要走很多年"},{"start":1160.979,"end":1189.331,"text":"效果差不多阿所以委員你如果堅持你這個想法為了矽脂區的想法矽脂的民意代表當然為矽脂區人民共同講話阿沒錯阿那如果你這樣的方式那就從頭開始從可信心開始嘛那你我就講過你要跟地方政府在推動這個捷運建設的好好去想可以阿誰反對誰就來自己面對矽脂的民眾阿"},{"start":1193.232,"end":1218.941,"text":"委員他們已經決定蓋囉!他們已經決定蓋囉!而且可以蓋下去囉!那你叫他不要蓋嗎?現在設計準備要施工了那是西東捷運你一直把西東捷運跟阪南縣延伸兩個混在一起您知道那個基隆捷運中和國會合訂環兵過你知道嗎?你知道接下來是什麼嗎?就是設計施工"},{"start":1219.321,"end":1248.147,"text":"是啊是啊,所以接下來就是要進行啊那你一個數位身份證都可以喊,隨便說喊卡就喊卡這個百年的建設,不用考慮到地方的訴求是是是啊那個後面下一張下一張,沒關係這個圖我的訴求很簡單整條基隆捷運我不想去影響到基隆市民的權益沒有爭議的路段我們沒有要擋他從張樹灣到基隆這一段"},{"start":1250.088,"end":1276.151,"text":"我們已經合定了,我們就全力的來施作,因為他也可以跟現有的西東縣來做整合,就是剛剛兩位一直在提的共購共軌段這邊,完全沒有任何的爭議,完全沒有任何的爭議,我當然也希望全力的來推動。那現在要提的就是南港展覽館,就是南港站到張書翰的部分,重啟板南縣延伸的一個評估。"},{"start":1278.136,"end":1298.951,"text":"委員你上次已經有結議了我們也請台北市去做評估但是做了以後這一段的基隆結議就不做了那你這個重新啟動是現在開始喔現在開始是什麼意思可行性最後要還品現在設置百年大計我們不能因為球快然後設計了一個方案然後被我們的後代罵死"},{"start":1299.974,"end":1322.102,"text":"一個方案這樣子做下去了我們現在的民意代表沒有辦法面對以後矽脂的後代阿那你現在如果要這樣做那就就啟動阿重來阿這樣重來阿你就啟動阿所以台北就是重來阿沒關係我不是說要或不要我只是要我們的行政院是不是能夠保持開放的態度"},{"start":1323.946,"end":1351.636,"text":"去針對爭議的路段去重新做一個詳細的報告沒有你現在如果要啟動張樹灣到南港的板南線延伸這個事情就是就影響集統捷運那影響集統捷運的時候你就要讓地方政府要來做我說這沒問題我說這沒問題我們會去討論我們會去說服不是市政府講的那好啦我去跟地方政府講的時候地方政府說那你要先去跟行政院講啊每個人都推給別人"},{"start":1355.78,"end":1371.937,"text":"對不對?每一個行政單位要有自己的態度嘛對不對?那我現在是立法委員我當然是問中央的態度啊地方政府會這樣講就是甩鍋給中央政府的意思啦我當初在當議員的時候在董事群的時候問當初的那時候劉河蘭是代理市長"},{"start":1372.478,"end":1387.063,"text":"他也是跟我說持開放態度阿我只要確認各單位都是持各方態度都是持開放的態度那我們就有進步的討論吧交通部把案子給市政府了市政府到現在都沒有表達意見阿那所以你要去問市政府的意見阿"},{"start":1388.243,"end":1394.131,"text":"市政府表達意見以後再說嗎?市政府表達意見以後再說嗎?我們是這個案子要核定很不容易,因為核定要給經費了,現在你要重來開始"},{"start":1404.563,"end":1430.832,"text":"這是這是重新的就是再回到部分正義的路段從來相關的政治責任我敢提我當然敢擔啊不是不是你你的政策你要問說地方政府同不同意啊如果三個市政府都同意我我只問汐止的居民同不同意哦那不行哦那汐止居民同意那你要問基隆啊基隆同不同意基隆同不同意基隆這邊清美市政府這邊我們來做溝通嘛對不對基隆是這樣啊他從八度一票"},{"start":1431.465,"end":1437.553,"text":"就是一車到南港站現在你就是到你這個路線到時候變成一個Y字型的路廊"},{"start":1439.587,"end":1442.589,"text":"自己學交通也知道外資型的路廊在運輸效率上面多差。"},{"start":1469.907,"end":1472.851,"text":"我們持開放態度嘛那沒關係地方政府要來溝通我來溝通嘛"},{"start":1473.923,"end":1499.396,"text":"你就是,他們如果要做可信心就重新來,我自己有看他...好,那不能因為這個東西來去卡張書安到基隆的部分嘛,對不對?張書安到基隆的部分沒有爭議的部分,就繼續吧。基隆今天也改了,張書安轉變成要轉應戰,我要重新...都動到了,都動到了。我們的評估報告裡面就是用不會動到的方案去評估嘛。部長你自己連評估報告都沒有看過,然後現在來跟我講這些..."},{"start":1501.613,"end":1502.073,"text":"好沒關係下一個議題"},{"start":1531.209,"end":1554.985,"text":"院長,這個我想跟你確認一下,我們的旁邊的王國才部長有沒有被調報過?確認本人嗎?去年的王國才是今年的王國才嗎?有一部漫畫叫獵人,裡面有一個角色叫熊狸狐,他變成人的形狀,然後模仿人的樣子,然後講話的樣子都一樣"},{"start":1556.172,"end":1558.474,"text":"那可不可以部長再重複一遍"},{"start":1587.284,"end":1610.797,"text":"可以再重複講一遍嗎?還是我播一次你再講一遍?我交通部現在以行人路權優先,包括我們的四年四百億的計畫,包括各個條例的修正,現在都朝這方面在進行。好,這個反正就是在任部長那天以行人路權的改革跟交通安全當作最重要的一件事情。這是最重要的一個施政政策,沒錯。"},{"start":1611.818,"end":1638.682,"text":"那你說你會跟這個入權團體並肩作戰好希望他們當你最強的後盾但現在入權團體你也知道我現在要講什麼嗎?違罪不舉發不祭典這件事情您認為符合您說行人入權的改革跟交通安全是您當作最重要的一件事情這句話嗎?我跟你們報告現在我的確是我在這個道安跟民宴中間要起一個平衡點"},{"start":1639.577,"end":1668.25,"text":"市長你們細節也知道路邊停車都困難路邊停車都困難所以他不得不違規停車這件事情是很多聲音都給我了所以我們現在權宜的調整但是我們相關的行人設施包括穿越道包括人行道都繼續在建設所以我是說這個是目前的一個權宜的修法不代表我們行人的建設就是包括我們行政院送來立法院的版本包括"},{"start":1670.084,"end":1674.651,"text":"道路沒有改善以前就有可能啊"},{"start":1685.176,"end":1710.156,"text":"所以...所以...所以...所以...所以挺能行到這件事情在院長的眼裡看起來是稀鬆平常的事情是不是?所以我們會...兩個法案做...兩個法案的理由一個是道路設施的條例交通道設施的條例一個就是相關的這個祭典的條例這兩個任何人在執政的時候都一定要考慮到全..."},{"start":1711.216,"end":1718.404,"text":"所以,讓汽車去停人行道沒有關係?我沒有地方停,我可以去停人行道?"},{"start":1728.175,"end":1728.436,"text":"微規停車"},{"start":1743.312,"end":1763.739,"text":"實際上你打電話那個地方的偷掉車就偷走了你知道嗎?現在只是說民眾檢舉這個患難我們是希望說在違罪裡面讓這個民眾檢舉這個降低一點再到可是並不是不滑你看他你車連行到你打警察指法強度降低就是變相鼓勵沒有強度沒有強度降低啊"},{"start":1764.92,"end":1783.779,"text":"沒有降低?還包括去年交通部給警政署的這個可以勸導的原則還包括我們現在停在人行道民眾檢舉都沒辦法檢舉的。不能檢舉不代表不划你可以打給那個警察局或是你們那個看專線是多少1999還知道來就馬上拖掉了是"},{"start":1785.233,"end":1787.275,"text":"還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?還是要處罰啊?"},{"start":1800.54,"end":1818.929,"text":"可不可以一起跟我一起摸著良心,把您上次說過的話再說一次。我不用說話,我剛才已經說過了。可不可以在這邊再宣誓一次,院長願不願意再把當天跟大眾承諾的話再宣誓一次。沒關係宣誓更容易,院長願不願意宣誓上次在入權團體活動舉辦講的話。"},{"start":1827.193,"end":1828.635,"text":"謝謝廖委員先翔的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。辦委員會上午的質詢到此為止。"}]}},{"id":"150288","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150288","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09ea702640cda8a97cbfd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6b31144838ad882005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"11:17:34 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11:33:28","影片長度":"00:15:54","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議","id":"院會-11-1-6","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6},"date":"2024-03-22","duration":954,"end_time":"2024-03-22T11:33:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-22T11:17:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1168,"blocks":[["顏委員寬恒：（11時17分）主席、各位列席委員、各位列席官員。主席，我想請行政院陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：顏委員早。"],["顏委員寬恒：院長早。院長，以下每一項交通建設的質詢都非常重要。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["顏委員寬恒：都將影響到整個大臺中未來的發展，因為時間有限，我先大概說明，就是中科西南巷聯外道路西屯路四段銜接向上路已經在112年8月份通車，這項建設從爭取到完工通車超過10年的時間，本席爭取的時間超過10年。這條道路確實通車之後有效的改善了遊園北路跟臺灣大道上下班時間的車流，這條道路的誕生是為了要因應中部科學園區數萬多名的工作人員上下班疏導車流而生。但是現在面臨的另外一個問題就是西屯路三段跟東大路一段成為交通的瓶頸。中科西南向延伸特五號計畫道路──都會園路延伸到東大路新闢路段，這一條道路是60米計畫道路，現在地價高漲又改為市價徵收，龐大的費用不是地方政府所能承擔，市政府會儘速規劃爭取中央預算。","本席認為中科管理局也應該要積極向中央反應聯外道路開闢的迫切性，而不是只關心產業發展而忽略周邊交通的問題。中部科學園區「臺中園區擴建二期」案通過都市計畫變更，台積電未來會持續擴廠，基地位於臺中園區西側面積89.75公頃，是為了因應臺灣半導體產業布局需求及未來整體發展而開發，未來還會再增加5,000個就業機會，所以你可以想像現在的上下班車流，再加上5,000部汽機車，還有往來運輸的大型車輛，這裡的交通一定會癱瘓。","但是我們的在地居民沒有那麼多10年可以等待，我們已經在112年7月27日由臺中市多位議員，還有市議會副議長以及中科管理局前往會勘，當天科管局也有派員出席，更在會議紀錄上寫下，本次討論之聯外道路對於紓解周邊交通確有幫助。本席希望既然政府如此看重中科和台積電來臺中設廠，這對於臺中創造就業機會是好事，但發展半導體是我國的發展目標，我希望到時候中央不要袖手旁觀，因為這不僅僅是地方政府的責任，中央應該要用最大的善意來予以協助。","臺中的生活圈道路系統從東到西、從北到南、台74、台61、國道1號、3號、4號，除了東勢、和平之外，幾乎可以透過快速道路和高速公路來進行銜接。但是本席的選區大肚變成了孤兒，本席爭取的大肚和美大橋2026年通車之後，可以有效的分流國道3號龍井交流道和向上路的大型車輛，可以透過和美大橋直接通往臺中港區。但是對於民眾的通勤車流幫助有限，加上大肚只有一個主要道路，就是省道台1線，僅有兩線道的沙田路由北至南貫穿大肚區，大肚近來人口也持續上升，所以非常需要生活圈道路的開闢，這將對大肚、龍井、臺中港區有極大的幫助。目前台74延伸到龍井台61線（生活圈4號大肚延伸段）在2020年通過環評，生活圈4號大肚延伸段計畫全長15.34公里，所需總經費274億7,600萬，臺中市政府今年已經追加預算先辦理先期規劃檢討，未來會爭取111至116年納入生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫。因為總經費非常龐大，要請行政院支持，所以院長這部分你可不可以表態，你願不願意支持大肚區的生活圈道路？"],["陳院長建仁：委員，你剛才提到有關於道路的延伸，還有大肚延伸段的部分，都是屬於內政部營建署主政的部分，因為我們今天是交通專題的個人質詢，他們沒有來，但是我可以跟你報告，生活圈道路是由地方政府規劃，規劃完了以後視相關的可行性、必要性，它就會提出計畫向內政部營建署提出經費補助。"],["顏委員寬恒：院長，因為經費龐大……"],["陳院長建仁：如果它有需要經費補助的時候，我們會請內政部營建署按照它的計畫來評估，利用生活圈的經費來補助。"],["顏委員寬恒：院長同意幫忙。"],["陳院長建仁：我們會看計畫，拜託地方政府提出更好的計畫。"],["顏委員寬恒：在預算的分配上，行政院一定會考量人口發展急迫性，特別是臺中市現在已經是全國第二大都，但每每在預算上因為臺中市政府的財政狀況好，所以就變成財力層級已經到達第二級，按照現行的補助辦法，也就是剛剛院長提到由市政府送上來之後，經過內政部的審查，再按照補助辦法編列，依照現行的補助辦法是可以達到73%，中央對臺中市政府在生活圈道路交通系統補助計畫的補助範圍，尤其這麼高的預算，所以我才要在這邊請院長一定要全力協助。","臺中捷運藍線在1月29日已經由行政院核定，總經費1,615.14億，地方要負擔939.55億，高達58%；反觀高雄市捷運黃線總經費1,442億，地方負擔608億，比例為42%；另外，小港林園線的總經費553億，地方負擔220億，負擔比例41%。依據各縣市政府的財力級別，臺中市雖然是二級，高雄市是三級，所以補助高雄比較多，但是這樣子是不是變相處罰好學生？"],["陳院長建仁：不是！"],["顏委員寬恒：我現在會這樣說，不是因為我剛才說的只有捷運南線、不是只有這些建設，我們剛剛提到……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，讓我說明一下好嗎？"],["顏委員寬恒：好，我先把這些說完，因為我的時間非常有限。"],["陳院長建仁：好，先讓你說完，但你有一件事情沒想到，就是自償部分沒有列在這裡考慮。"],["顏委員寬恒：自償部分，對。另外，在鐵路高架的部分，因為我們雙軌化，剛剛我們陳委員也有提到，行政院1月29日核定雙軌的部分是161億，長度從苗栗到臺中38.3公里，但是還有另外一個計畫「大臺中地區山海線鐵路雙軌高架化建置計畫可行性研究」，有部分跟海線雙軌化重疊。因為臺鐵在沙鹿站勢必要高架，和捷運南線共構做一個銜接，目前依交通部112年9月11日的審查意見完成補充修正，並於113年2月23日再次提報中央審查，所以目前交通部113年3月5日交下鐵道局辦理審查作業。","還有一個更重要的，就是目前烏日區的鐵路高架從大慶到烏日新站，烏日大慶高架化已經談了好久，本案是延續107年10月通車的臺中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫3.7公里，它可以縫合區域的交通，還有鐵道兩邊的經濟發展，但是因為未來營運、產權及獲利全部都屬中央，所以這個部分可不可以請院長，我們交通部長也在這邊，鐵路高架大慶站到烏日鐵路新站這部分可不可以做一個承諾，儘速地啟動？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，的確這一次我們有協助臺中市政府把所謂的山海線分為兩個，第一個就是山線的大慶烏日，另外一個是海線的大甲追分，他們的報告也都已經送過來，我們初步審查大概大致 OK，等他們修正以後，我們會報行政院國發會來審查。"],["顏委員寬恒：還要報國發會審查喔？"],["王部長國材：這個要送到行政院核定。"],["顏委員寬恒：那什麼時候可以核定？可不可以給我們一個期程？"],["王部長國材：我們送案出去，當然在國發會各個相關單位可能有意見，對交通部來講就是儘速，這樣好不好？"],["顏委員寬恒：那海線雙軌高架的部分是不是一樣？"],["王部長國材：兩個一樣。"],["陳院長建仁：一樣。"],["顏委員寬恒：這兩個案子……"],["王部長國材：將整個環一起送，被甲后線也耽誤很久了，我們現在請他們切分三個案子，現在他們已經同意交通部的建議切分，初步就是這兩個案子會送。"],["顏委員寬恒：其實我覺得這是一個給行政院洗刷污名的機會啦！我希望在520之後還能夠看到陳院長，未來是不是有機會繼續帶領行政院，因為我們臺中市這些重大的經濟建設，行政院如果能夠全力協助，我相信不只是臺中市民，未來旅居臺中的所有國人也都會給你一個掌聲啦。"],["陳院長建仁：對，不過剛才講洗刷污名，我不太同意。不過我跟委員報告，很多的建設實際上地方政府是扮演很多的角色。剛才你講的中央補助款部分，特別是捷運的部分，我們是有所謂的自償部分，要把自償部分拿掉以後再來看中央跟地方的分配，而中央地方的分配每一個都會區都一樣。所以你剛才講的那個52%跟41%是不能夠比的啦！因為自償比例是不一樣。不過，不管怎麼樣，我們中央一定會按照應該要負擔的部分、按照比例來給臺中市政府。","關於鐵路高架化的部分，剛才我們部長已經有講過，我們會全力以赴、趕快進行，我知道大家都很急，但是我們覺得中央跟地方要合作，不要互相把責任踢來踢去，我也不喜歡這樣。"],["顏委員寬恒：當然，因為所有的資源都在中央，臺中市是一個正在成長、發展的城市，人口增加得也非常快。我剛剛說一個洗刷污名的機會，是因為外界對於行政院會有一個大小眼的批評，所以我們今天會說……"],["陳院長建仁：我剛剛就有跟你說過，沒有嘛。"],["顏委員寬恒：我們剛好有這個機會，如果你們沒有這樣，那就要把握這個機會對於臺中市的都市發展，行政院配合地方，我們來協助地方，讓地方有一個比較好的發展。"],["陳院長建仁：好啊！"],["顏委員寬恒：對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：委員我也要拜託你回去跟大家說一下自償比率要扣掉才能比，不然都說我們重南輕中，沒有這種事情，我們是疼惜臺中市和疼惜高雄市都完全一樣，謝謝。"],["顏委員寬恒：烏日鐵路，大慶到烏日的高架化，我已經提了超過10年了，從當時的一個39億一直到現在整個經費規模上看百億，這個部分已經拖了那麼久，不應該再拖，所以這一次如果能夠在陳院長你的任內完成審查跟核定，我相信這會是一個全新的里程碑。而且我們對於地方的發展建設不分藍綠……"],["陳院長建仁：我同意。"],["顏委員寬恒：我們就是要一條道路、一座橋梁，包括整個大眾捷運就是要讓每一個人都能夠來使用……"],["陳院長建仁：對，我同意。"],["顏委員寬恒：帶動地方的發展嘛！所以我們不要用那麼多政治的語言來詮釋這些東西。"],["陳院長建仁：我就是不要政治的語言，所以我說中央地方來合作。"],["顏委員寬恒：接下來我再跟院長說明，我們現在臺中市的高架道路，環中路六段這個部分，現在是整個環中路唯一沒有高架的部分，在五段到七段中間大概1,045米的部分，當初因為民眾反對，所以在環中路六段約有六百多公尺是平面道路，加上銜接匝道部分的工程起點到終點約1,045公尺，現在狀況就是車子必須下橋之後再重新上橋，造成用路人的不便以及車速過快所造成當地民眾過馬路的時候心驚膽跳，而且時常發生車禍。本席在3月19日也邀請了議員、里長及相關的單位，包括國土署以及地政局還有在地的這些機關前往會勘，地政局建議環中路可以採全線高架化，與光明路形成一個立體化的路口，改善環中路通過性車流路口停等延滯的問題，初估工程預算大約18億元，工期約4年的時間，我想要請問院長是否可以將此計畫納入111到116年生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫，由中央來補助經費，協助地方完成本案的建設？"],["陳院長建仁：像我剛才說的，我們中央地方要合作，市政府就趕快把這個……"],["顏委員寬恒：我們請它儘速把案子……"],["陳院長建仁：環中路高架化的計畫要趕快送過來。"],["顏委員寬恒：對，請院長幫忙。"],["陳院長建仁：送來之後，我們請內政部國土署做相關的評估。"],["顏委員寬恒：如果沒有中央的補助、沒有中央的核定的話，地方沒有辦法來做這些工程。"],["陳院長建仁：對，如果審查通過就可以。"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，因為以前就是地方民眾反對才會下地，現在地方反對的因素是不是不在，這個地方政府要幫我們啦！"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！"],["王部長國材：如果幫忙之後，大家都一致認為要高架，那就按照生活圈……"],["陳院長建仁：這就是……政府要加油啦！"],["顏委員寬恒：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝顏委員寬恒的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第10號廖委員先翔質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":36,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1131401_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.46221875,"end":27.672218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.95909375,"end":29.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.40534375,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.19846875,"end":36.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.95346875,"end":44.884718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.15471875,"end":47.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.65221875,"end":50.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.65596875,"end":55.431593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.71846875000001,"end":60.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.83159375,"end":63.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.41346875000001,"end":69.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.41659375,"end":72.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.96471875,"end":83.19096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.47784375,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.06409375000001,"end":85.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.14846875,"end":86.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.39284375000001,"end":89.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.39659375000001,"end":93.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.53096875,"end":99.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.30221875000001,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.27221875000001,"end":104.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.24659375,"end":106.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.63034375000001,"end":107.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.08159375000001,"end":111.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.50721875,"end":113.93721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.22409375000001,"end":117.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.05471875,"end":121.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.36221875000001,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.73284375000001,"end":130.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.84596875,"end":131.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.19596875000002,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.49096875,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.61721875,"end":137.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.54534375,"end":140.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.39721875,"end":143.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.72159375,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.48034375,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.70346875,"end":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end":902.179,"text":"路口停等研製的問題那出估工程預算大約18億元工期約4年的時間我想請問院長是否可以將此計畫納入111到116年生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫由中央來補助軍會協助地方完成這個本案的一個建設"},{"start":903.039,"end":927.518,"text":"像我剛才說的,我們中央地方要合作嘛。在市政府就趕緊把這個環中路的高階化的界位趕緊上來。上來的時候,我們請這個內建部的國土署來做相關的評估。如果沒有中央的補助,沒有中央的一個這個核定的話,地方沒有辦法來做這些工作。如果是公示選查通過,可以。"},{"start":928.587,"end":930.528,"text":"謝謝顏委員寬恒的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第10號廖委員先祥質詢"}]}},{"id":"150287","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150287","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e00738ae4a4f8e679fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a61ff07f613f4563235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:45:28 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做一下。"},{"start":780.051,"end":786.258,"text":"我以為這要跟政府再來溝通。院長,你是好人,這條你給我三頁,三頁而已,唉唷,還在後面。好不好?我現在會跟苗栗縣政府來..."},{"start":797.449,"end":799.95,"text":"我跟委員講,這三月20時苗栗縣政府的公文已經交通部有收到,所以我會請交通部開始來進行。"},{"start":819.635,"end":842.085,"text":"包括你們那邊的議員都提出來我講你們那邊的都提出來這個是利益富裕的地方我這次好不容易才贏了一次寫了五次沒有一次贏但是我容然遭受這個拜託你幫我完成一下再下來所以說管政府我們要加油啦沒有啦管政府要加油啦就我付這個就用地方來合作啦這很重要你給我答應喔"},{"start":845.486,"end":846.106,"text":"臺中臺中都要拜託時間到了"},{"start":872.85,"end":898.861,"text":"啊,這個以前我是從鐵道局,這是很成功的一個案例,就是3億的Royalbike要延伸到台中,其實那一段很漂亮,尤其台中的人口那麼多,兩邊一交流下來,這一條是在交通裡面光光景點,最成功的一個示範的一個基地啊,啊現在我想說一定,"},{"start":899.611,"end":915.137,"text":"委員延伸到台中1點,麻煩您來幫忙一下,這裡面還有人都要來加強設施的地方。好,我還要跟委員報告一下,剛才鐵道自行車的撥分在廖連管政府在做的時候是做得很成功,像你說的那樣。但是現在要延伸到台中的時候,我也要跟台中市政府再來,"},{"start":931.484,"end":942.708,"text":"時間有限,你幫我放通宵的銅鑼科學研習到通宵順暖。這一條,我希望在我日內能完成,非常重要的道路。"},{"start":943.942,"end":952.366,"text":"我相信我這四年的立委任期,我希望能斷功或是完成,我就功成身退了。我要請議長這樣緊張一下,請你拜託給我完成一下。"},{"start":971.275,"end":978.239,"text":"謝謝陳委員超明的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第二位涂委員權吉發言質詢謝謝"},{"start":1001.015,"end":1022.641,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那請我們陳建仁陳院長。再請陳院長備詢。杜委員長。好,好,院長。我請問一下,我們大原航空城這個徵收案,我們院長應該知道吧?我知道。"},{"start":1023.573,"end":1043.148,"text":"因為他是我們中華民國有史以來區段徵收最大的開發案那徵收這個面積也突破到3148公頃那當初這些搬遷的市民他這個徵收有兩種補償方式那院長知道哪兩種補償方式嗎?"},{"start":1048.622,"end":1067.659,"text":"他主要分兩種,一種是現金的補償,還有一種是抵價地,一個是用錢用現金,另外一個就是也是用現金等值的抵價地,兩種方式給我們徵收戶的民眾去選擇。"},{"start":1068.86,"end":1083.073,"text":"那這些徵收戶他都是配合國家重大建設跟政策那所以我認為他們是不是應該都享有同樣的待遇對應該那現在他們面臨一個問題就是我們這些徵收戶他選擇現金補償的"},{"start":1089.96,"end":1110.781,"text":"他現金補償以後他的老農津貼跟國民年金沒有被排富所影響但是後來這些徵收戶因為有百分之九十幾因為他們認為這個地他被徵收掉他希望拿回這個地那我們政府也希望說不用發那麼多錢出去用地去抵這個地"},{"start":1111.281,"end":1137.138,"text":"所以後來他們就選擇這個底價地但是後來當他們收到權狀之後收到這安置接貨權狀之後居然馬上房子都還沒蓋收到權狀之後就被這個排付條款排除在老農津貼跟國民年金之外所以是不是這部分我希望是不是應該享有同樣的待遇是不是院長這邊是不是可以來幫我們解決一下"},{"start":1137.658,"end":1154.453,"text":"我想這件事情的話我們行政院是由政府院長來召集相關的會議然後會來就這樣子的看起來比較不一致的這個的情況會來做相關的討論那當然他的老容津貼的這個部分呢"},{"start":1154.873,"end":1156.756,"text":"我希望院長再幫忙一下,因為那時候我們有提出"},{"start":1172.555,"end":1193.654,"text":"也希望那個政府院長在召開航空城這個專案會議的時候像3月11號我們希望說有希望來討論這部分可是後來我們發現好像並沒有討論所以希望院長這邊能夠交辦一下針對我們稅捐機關農業部跟衛福部的部分希望跨部會來解決這個問題"},{"start":1195.646,"end":1200.491,"text":"因為當初民航局也有跟衛福部跟農業部說其實應該這個底價地應該也是符合這個損害賠償性質因為這個所得稅法說他們因為這個拿現金"},{"start":1211.221,"end":1235.378,"text":"是符合損害賠償性質所以他沒有在排付之內可是不知道為什麼反而拿這個同等值的地居然被排除在外所以民航局也認為說應該這個拿這個底價地應該也符合這損壞賠償性質所以這部分希望我們院長幫我們這些徵收戶爭取他們合法的權益畢竟這些徵收戶都是"},{"start":1235.818,"end":1246.642,"text":"配合國家重大政策我們也不希望往後區段徵收有這些問題影響到民眾對於徵收表達強烈的不滿也怕他們遞制這個徵收"},{"start":1248.339,"end":1266.418,"text":"好,這個部分我剛才已經說過我會請我們政府院長來召集相關的部會來討論。請院長這部分多幫忙。接下來我們看一下我們下一段針對我們這個道路改善這個影片我們先播放請大家來看一下。"},{"start":1271.837,"end":1295.015,"text":"這是有加快速度這是前幾天我們去針對這個路段拍攝的這個影片他這一段路就是隨便走一段路那知道請問院長不然應該知道這一段是在哪裡吧知道"},{"start":1296.584,"end":1315.932,"text":"那是在哪裡?就是在這個觀音這一段。那部長對這也了解,因為我相信非常多的民眾陳情,這台六一我們桃園這沿海路段,它似乎到觀音這個路段,那這個坑坑洞洞的道路非常非常的不平整,而且"},{"start":1316.852,"end":1317.673,"text":"這個部分我想我們請部長來回答"},{"start":1343.488,"end":1364.762,"text":"對,各位報告,從111開始修啦,今年會徹底,有筆經費4.5億,會全部把它改善完畢。什麼時候開始動工修?從111年就開始修了。那可是還是很壞啊。對,但是今年,今年113有4.5億會丟進去,總共把那個77公里全部把它修完。那預計什麼時候可以全面重複完成?"},{"start":1365.262,"end":1383.904,"text":"就是那個今年年底,今年年底全部修完。今年年底可以全部修復完成。所以現在已經陸續在修,今年年底我們就有一條完整的道路。是,現在大概已經修了三十幾公里了。好,那我也順便跟部長報告臺六一也是這樣,臺六六我相信你也接到很多反應吧。是是。"},{"start":1384.184,"end":1394.251,"text":"還有我們台六六我們在觀音段現在還是平交入口常常發生很多的意外而且造成很多交通的瓶頸那這個全面高架什麼時候可以啟動?"},{"start":1410.885,"end":1428.892,"text":"現在有一段在施工了,現在這五個路口平面路口,比較靠海在關於這一部分是現在設計,事業會發包,然後另外再過來6K這部分現在已經在施工中了。"},{"start":1429.838,"end":1431.159,"text":"所以目前現在已經開始在施作,你說4月發保是嗎?"},{"start":1447.227,"end":1469.195,"text":"所以預計116年全部可以高價完成。好,那這部分還請我們部長來多叮嚀那還有我們針對我們桃園市大園國二甲台15線延伸到台61線這個新建工程因為他這現在也是我們航空城主要的連外道路那不知道現在這個進度到哪裡"},{"start":1470.81,"end":1485.147,"text":"我們第一階段就是到台15嘛,現在要引到西平,現在已經在積極的進行中。那個時間,我這邊不確定時間,就是現在進行中。好沒關係部長,因為我的重點在後面齁。"},{"start":1485.908,"end":1504.991,"text":"因為這個國道二甲延伸到台六一它延伸之後最主要我們希望把這個下面下方這個道路是不是可以一併納入這個工程裡面不要到時候二次施工造成民眾這個二次的傷害而且到時候再施工絕對會把這個工程期又再延長"},{"start":1506.072,"end":1534.922,"text":"這有需要跟地方政府討論一下,因為這跟地方政府有關係。對,這個我有跟地方政府先溝通過。他們說希望交通部納入經費的部分,各方面他們希望可以全數配合,但是最主要希望交通部能夠納入這個國道二甲台15線延伸到台61線,希望把它納入規劃跟施作裡面。那地方政府的部分他說經費各方面他們希望跟交通部來全面配合。"},{"start":1536.42,"end":1563.955,"text":"這個需要討論一下因為我們一般是這個高架段是我們負責平面段包括徵收還有一些因為下方道路我們交通部有負責鋪平的責任那我是希望直接先納入不要做好以後到時候再來什麼可行性評估再來徵收土地再來做是不是應該先納入直接把這個工程在做高架橋樑的時候一次一併把它做好"},{"start":1564.535,"end":1592.062,"text":"委員當時的可行性評估就我的了解好像只是高價路的部分並沒有在平面的這個可行性評估那如果現在平面要納進來這個我讓交通部跟地方政府齁一起來討論看看好不好因為今天講最主要目的因為當初當初做的是做高價路的評估嘛因為民眾一直反映啦希望說能夠一併來施作因為這個下面這道路是一定要做的為什麼不在做的時候一併來做"},{"start":1592.962,"end":1594.484,"text":"請部長再跟我們多幫忙希望把這個一併納入這個我們規劃跟施作裡面"},{"start":1609.258,"end":1636.273,"text":"那還有我們現在五陽高價延伸就是剛剛我們陳昌明委員也有講國道1號這個陽頭路的拓寬就是陽梅道頭份那這個我們已經確定會去做了那現在針對陽梅的部分是不是能夠把這個陽梅的針射閘道一併納入我們的陽頭段的拓寬工程裡面"},{"start":1636.761,"end":1659.341,"text":"希望這個北出南入這個閘道能夠一併納入來一起施作。我們現在請高工局在研究啦,過去這部分有在研究。因為我有去了解啦,那你有請那個地方交通局去做這個可行性評估。那其實經過我們討論過,他說這個可行性評估是絕對要做。"},{"start":1662.063,"end":1689.145,"text":"所以很多民眾還有地方政府也希望交通部能夠把這個一併納入不要像我們舞陽高架那個中峰北交流道民國99年高架完成現在隔了15年現在才去做中峰北的交流道當初做的時候就希望做結果那時候不納入你看現在又在那邊施工民眾說15年前就可以規劃可以完成的東西為什麼隔了15年以後再來做"},{"start":1689.625,"end":1706.028,"text":"所以希望這個楊梅珍色閘道也希望納入我們楊頭段的拓寬工程裡面。這個地方政府先提出來,然後跟我們一起討論這樣。好,那希望這個提出來,希望交通部能夠為我們民眾的福祉多幫忙配合。"},{"start":1707.649,"end":1710.01,"text":"還有也是這個羊頭段拓寬的...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我...我..."},{"start":1731.497,"end":1731.637,"text":"﹚涂權吉"},{"start":1761.917,"end":1785.114,"text":"楊投斷這個拓寬工程所以本來接著秀才路要能夠打通道笑錢路那因為楊投公路這個高架工程所以暫時停擺所以是不是希望在北上方下一樣我們楊投斷這個拓寬工程高架下方道路我們是不是請交通部高工局也可以一併納入這個設計跟施作裡面"},{"start":1788.116,"end":1816.623,"text":"這可能要看他的整個高層怎麼接啦我想還是一樣就是說有一些分析如果地方有這個想法我想說可以討論但是畢竟他工程面他要去討論那我這邊提出那我也希望到時候我們要求我們地方政府交通局也來提出然後最主要希望交通部能夠來配合我們希望真的把這個工程能夠一次來完成不要做了以後又再二次施工造成更多的問題"},{"start":1817.703,"end":1830.151,"text":"還有我們之前我們楊梅交流道有在那個增設北上的專用道楊梅交流道有增設的北上交流道的專用道"},{"start":1830.828,"end":1857.517,"text":"﹗"},{"start":1857.717,"end":1864.093,"text":"曾曾道路後造成他們很多的危險性所以他們希望能夠在各地方來偵測我們的機車專用道"},{"start":1868.101,"end":1891.804,"text":"這個部分因為它主要是要分流嘛然後我想說這部分也一樣就是交通局先提出來對我希望這部分交通局配合因為這之前提出像我們南崁跟中壢新戶交通道都有做這個計策專用道不知道為什麼到陽梅爭取的時候你們就百般的很多的問題說這也不行那也不行可是對我們來講我們覺得那都是藉口"},{"start":1892.344,"end":1903.433,"text":"因為平民旁邊就可以拓寬就可以去做所以這部分提出希望我們交通部這部分能夠來幫忙來協助到時候來辦理這個會刊希望我們行政院跟交通部為民來多幫忙"}]}},{"id":"150286","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150286","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e0a9271b0e86ca9bafd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a67435c50c4755d32f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"09:24:15 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26.047,"end":46.219,"text":"這兩週不只一件的虐童事件,讓臺灣全體的社會感到痛心。為何由中央主導的社會安全網,這八年來平凡的失靈、漏接也讓基層、社工師、醫師、地方局處的同仁感到疲憊不堪以及心寒。"},{"start":47.557,"end":56.468,"text":"因為出事之後往往都是基層在承擔而且今天公祭明天旺祭距離我們改革的盡頭遙遙無期"},{"start":59.98,"end":86.2,"text":"根據衛福部自己的統計去年每三天就有一位志工受到暴力的對待包括言語暴力威脅還有肢體等等這些在前線服務奉獻的朋友承擔著繁重的工作業務以及極大的心理壓力但大家往往覺得社工就給他們解決所有社會的問題"},{"start":87.642,"end":106.392,"text":"但他們是人,也有情緒,也會累。同樣身為人需要面對各種人生的課題,所以請大家不要將所有的期待與責任都丟給社工,反而要先改革當前社工安全網失靈的各項缺失。"},{"start":108.456,"end":136.369,"text":"大家知道社工在低薪高案件高強度高壓力的工作環境下燃燒著他們的熱情以及使命感為我們全國同胞負重前行因此要改善社工的勞動條件我們要增補員額提高薪資減少案量而且給予完善的支持系統不再讓他們獨自面對漫無邊際的情緒勞動"},{"start":137.952,"end":153.442,"text":"我們常常說社會安全網又破了又漏接了誰然後開始找人負責是誰沒有做好工作但曾幾何時我們有沒有想過社工也需要被接住也需要我們的體諒與支持"},{"start":154.642,"end":173.432,"text":"既然如此,我們至少要成為呵護他們的熱情一雙手,在風雨中為社工撐起安全的傘,讓他們有信心繼續走下去的動力,而不是舉辦好只為了儀式感的社工表揚大會,而真的為他們做一點事吧。謝謝大家。謝謝陳委員、金威的發言。接下來,我們請登記第6號羅委員志強發言。"}]}},{"id":"150282","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150282","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e10c6f2fc75d3777efd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6a146c96c832ca56e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:10:56 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就會大量分透的蒜頭出售﹐稍後,總共如果繼續落﹐"},{"start":97.199,"end":118.655,"text":"要如何審核呢?都已經收到我們產銷失衡的損害,賣一斤、撩一斤,辛苦的費官有可能毀滅。請問我們農業部,你們有看到嗎?發展領域政府對算台的健康和國內生產的管理是失控的。"},{"start":119.395,"end":131.963,"text":"在此發表要向政府的建議,第一,都要說應該要重視我們軍土農園的管理,不應該採取其開放進口大量的蒜頭。第二,都要說應該要管理蒜頭的進口量,在WTO進口匯量之外,其實要更多高關稅的蒜頭進口量,去年市場商品貴量,"},{"start":149.333,"end":158.96,"text":"影響到我們農園的收益。第三,請農業國應該要負責農園做生育生計為補助我們國平值分拓的蒜頭。最後,發言委在此呼籲大家,我們分拓的蒜頭影響幾十關,可以控制,也能影響到新水管疾病,請多多支持我們台灣分靈的蒜頭。感謝大家。"},{"start":178.078,"end":184.693,"text":"謝謝丁委員學忠的發言接下來我們請登記第四位紅委員孟凱發言"}]}},{"id":"150280","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150280","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09e501c27863d02eb74fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a6da5278befab78cf15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"09:04:17 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恰恰今天要在這裡說的是我們婚姻當產品的問題。我們婚姻關係都很大關, 當產品提供全國各地,其中蒜頭是最重要。 產品佔全國的高深,但是我最近收到很多電信, 蒜頭的收工期一直落。"},{"start":2293.453,"end":2313.072,"text":"再來看到施政開發期同樣一直落。．去年初．我們這個介紹驚嘈了三分之一。．介紹這期．給農民都非常痛苦。．算頭是一年一休的祝福。．現在修行期．介紹直接影響到．我們農民全年一個休業。．"},{"start":2316.115,"end":2328.012,"text":"現在完整後,什麼都起家,算頭1分之1分前就要過完課,未那一屆的介紹,先課都沒得到回報。請問整個那一屆未家,所有那一屆,到底為什麼勒?"},{"start":2332.037,"end":2344.103,"text":"本期查量,才發覺今年三個月內, 咱算蒜頭的進口量已經要到6千噸了。有這麼多的進口蒜頭,分透蒜頭的計劃當然會被扣到很高。所以,清潔這陣程,咱採取期也已經夠了。後來就會大量分透的蒜頭出産。 算計,總共如果繼續落,"},{"start":2359.577,"end":2361.558,"text":"要如何審核呢?"},{"start":2361.558,"end":2371.144,"text":"論壇收到我們產銷失衡的損害,賣一斤、撩一斤。 申告的會刊有可能毀滅。請問我們農業部,您有看到嗎?"},{"start":2371.144,"end":2374.846,"text":"發動領域政府對蒜頭的健康,及國內生產的管理是失控。"},{"start":2381.61,"end":2389.332,"text":"在此下中,要向政府建議,第一,農業部應該要重視我們軍土農園的管理,不應該採取其開放進口大量的蒜頭。第二,農業部應該要管理蒜頭的進口量,"},{"start":2400.456,"end":2405.498,"text":"提到WTO政考會議是由我去主要講解高關稅的選舉政考量。．然遲到申請過量,影響到我們農園的收益。第三,請農業國應該要輔導農園做申約成績,為補助我們國均值分拓的選舉。所以,合同要在這裏呼籲大家,"},{"start":2425.426,"end":2435.931,"text":"我們軍統的選舉應用計10個月．可以控制也能預防到新水管疾病。請得到支持我們臺灣分靈的選舉。感謝大家。謝謝丁委員學中的發言。接下來我們請登記第4位,紅委員孟凱發言。"},{"start":2460.39,"end":2489.189,"text":"主席各位同仁先進以及行政院的所有官員本期今天再一次陳志的陳痛的要再一次的呼籲電價調漲看起來是勢在必行但是過去這幾個月以來國民黨團一直要求蔡英文政府正式弱勢族群的新生相關的電價調漲簽罰動全身而如今今天要召開的電價審議委員會"},{"start":2490.83,"end":2505.659,"text":"雖然是今天才要決定但是早上起來媒體已經都大幅報導看起來漲價是勢在必行而且都已經講出可能會330度以下的家庭全部都納入平均調漲11%預計全國1340萬戶的家庭受到影響台灣93%的人民電價調漲會高達5%以上"},{"start":2518.627,"end":2538.057,"text":"所以我們要說都已經是確定了這樣的一個調漲的部分看起來蔡英文總統任內就是調漲了四次並且從未降價過累積的調漲幅度會高達三成以上這就是蔡英文總統的歷史定位嗎"},{"start":2538.817,"end":2561.918,"text":"有人馬上就算出來比較過去馬英九政府時代雖然調漲了4次但是也曾經降電價3次也因此平均來說漲幅是22.4%我們真的要問現在兩相比較是不是真的是選錯的人走貴的路這樣子的狀況有真的苦民所苦嗎?"},{"start":2562.731,"end":2589.149,"text":"再者昨天央行已經提前宣布升息半碼已經馬上被市場解讀說這就是避免通膨在打預防針當全球都在吹降息風的時候台灣不降反升尤其是想要打通膨但是可能造成家庭房貸等利息的增加而影響消費能力央行就是宣稱就是戳破綠營宣稱電價對於民眾影響不大的謊言"},{"start":2593.171,"end":2614.585,"text":"今天剛好是交通組的總質詢我們也看到交通部部長以及相關的官員都有來到現場我們過去一直在強調大眾運輸的電如果說也跟著調漲的話無論是台鐵、高鐵、公路客運都已經有說可能會運量票價甚至五都的捷運"},{"start":2615.445,"end":2643.327,"text":"臺北、新北、基捷、高捷、中捷也都說反應成本吃不消了。難道這一些物價調漲、票價調漲也都會是下一波迎接而來的嗎?政府能不能真的行行好,苦民所苦,感受一下老百姓真實的生活情況。萬物皆漲,只有薪水不漲,到目前為止就是民進黨政府八年執政下給國人最真實的感受。謝謝。"},{"start":2646.579,"end":2651.046,"text":"謝謝洪委員孟凱的發言。接下來我們請登記第5號陳委員經微發言。"},{"start":2661.192,"end":2681.061,"text":"主席、各位同事、各位行政院的官員以及媒體朋友早安本週二是國際社工日也表揚了臺灣優秀的志工但才過了一天卻有超過300位的志工在衛福部前陳抗陳痛地提出五點訴求這個現象何其諷刺啊"},{"start":2686.696,"end":2706.868,"text":"這兩週不只一件的虐童事件讓臺灣全體的社會感到痛心為何由中央主導的社會安全網這八年來平凡的失靈、漏接也讓基層、社工師、醫師、地方局處的同仁感到疲憊不堪以及心寒"},{"start":2708.206,"end":2732.121,"text":"因為出事之後往往都是基層在承擔而且今天公祭明天旺祭距離我們改革的盡頭遙遙無期根據衛福部自己的統計去年每三天就有一位志工受到暴力的對待包括言語暴力威脅還有肢體等等"},{"start":2733.388,"end":2746.842,"text":"這些在前線服務奉獻的朋友承擔著繁重的工作業務以及極大的心理壓力。但大家往往覺得社工就給他們解決所有社會的問題。"},{"start":2748.291,"end":2767.02,"text":"但他們是人,也有情緒,也會累。同樣身為人需要面對各種人生的課題,所以請大家不要將所有的期待與責任都丟給社工,反而要先改革當前社工安全網失靈的各項缺失。"},{"start":2769.104,"end":2797.018,"text":"大家知道社工在低薪高案件高強度高壓力的工作環境下燃燒著他們的熱情以及使命感為我們全國同胞負重前行因此要改善社工的勞動條件我們要增補員額提高薪資減少案量而且給予完善的支持系統不再讓他們獨自面對漫無邊際的情緒勞動"},{"start":2798.601,"end":2814.096,"text":"我們常常說社會安全網又破了又漏接了誰然後開始找人負責是誰沒有做好工作但曾幾何時我們有沒有想過社工也需要被接住也需要我們的體諒與支持"},{"start":2815.27,"end":2834.075,"text":"既然如此,我們至少要成為呵護他們的熱情一雙手,在風雨中為社工撐起安全的傘,讓他們有信心繼續走下去的動力,而不是舉辦好只為了儀式感的社工表揚大會,而真的為他們做點事吧。謝謝大家。謝謝陳委員、金威的發言。接下來,我們請登記第6號羅委員志強發言。"},{"start":2857.098,"end":2879.745,"text":"廢物監察院不如廢了吧!廢物監察院早點廢掉吧!賴清德的大弟子行政院前發言人陳忠彥被控於臺南擔任首長的期間為酒店業者關說八次接受性招待"},{"start":2881.358,"end":2906.634,"text":"監察委員的調查指出陳宗彥向酒店業者詢問小雲有空嗎?馬上隨即協助業者來追蹤工程的案件進度。時間續上關聯緊密。對於是否接受性招待陳宗彥既不承認也不否認,只說不記得了。"},{"start":2907.931,"end":2935.467,"text":"雖然陳宗彥的性招待關說為私的證據明顯這個廢物監察院卻用11票反對2票贊成未能通過對陳宗彥的彈劾我直接講為什麼啦因為這11個監察委員就在仰望上議啊未來的總統賴清德的大弟子他們不敢動啊"},{"start":2936.823,"end":2965.13,"text":"不要說這個只打蒼蠅不打老虎他連老鼠屎都不敢打連陳宗彥都不敢打那這樣監察委員照民進黨長期的理念就是幹嘛廢掉嗎陳菊擔任監察院院長也曾經說他的心願啊他的心願就是他希望他是最後一任監察委員啊監察院長"},{"start":2966.758,"end":2995.481,"text":"希望監察院廢掉啊講到要監察院的職能要把它廢掉領到監察院的薪水領好領滿很開心啊第六屆的監委全數是由蔡英文提名的絕大多數都是綠色酬庸不要說不敢糾正機關扮演所謂的端正關真的職能"},{"start":2996.812,"end":3003.22,"text":"甚至常常還淪為綠色打手變成東廠。上週我質詢監察院秘書長李俊毅"},{"start":3006.826,"end":3032.737,"text":"相較於上屆監委平均彈劾2.4案,本屆監委也只有1.8案。不管在糾正案、在所謂調查案、在人權報告、人權調查案上,全面的倒退,結果李俊逸還跟我講說,數字沒有意義啊。對啦,數字沒有意義啦。但是連老鼠屎都不敢彈劾就很有意義啦。"},{"start":3033.553,"end":3046.144,"text":"所以我的主張很簡單這種廢物監察院廢掉剛好謝謝羅委員志強的發言接下來我們請登記第7號陳委員冠廷發言"},{"start":3058.325,"end":3081.57,"text":"那謝謝所有的媒體還有我們今天在場的行政院的這些官員們。那我這次必須要再強調,調漲公糧收購的價格對整體的農業的重要性。我想農業部從110年年度開始實施的稻作試選山,那這個是配合國家的稻米產量。那麼可以理解這樣子是對整體的農業是有幫助的。"},{"start":3082.19,"end":3097.039,"text":"可是說主動減少25%的耕作面積也造成他們的這個整體的這個鬆弛量大概也減少25%所以說雖然政府有提供4萬5千元的休耕補助但是減少公糧的總量還是會給特別是老農一些心理壓力"},{"start":3097.819,"end":3123.232,"text":"那許多農民關切的部分是國內的公糧收購價額12年沒有調整。所以在這邊我們也是希望在場的所有的行政院的官員,包含院長如果有機會的話,可以來去思考一下這12年沒有改變的這個調整能夠在最後的這個任期內給予調整給我們的腦農一個可以幫助他們的方式。"},{"start":3123.832,"end":3143.85,"text":"那我必須再強調,如果公糧每公斤提高2到3元,它只是回復這12年來原物料的波動而已。換言之,這樣子的做法是不會影響到這個總量的管制的。所以說,這樣的做法我們還是鼓勵院長能夠考量這件事情,還有包含所有的這個農業部的官員,"},{"start":3145.371,"end":3169.49,"text":"能夠給農業重要的支持因為農業不是只有青農還有一些比較中上年中老農還是需要來協助的另外針對於青農的部分其實我們知道許多青農回到自己的家鄉那他們所需要的是土地那我們有一個農地租賃平台就是俗稱的農地銀行2.0可是上面能夠每一核的農地實在太少"},{"start":3169.91,"end":3197.018,"text":"所以我在這邊也是呼籲農業部來給予協助或者是其他各單位要總共來去全面性的協調比如說我們今天去查詢大概是只有34筆農地要出租這樣子看起來的話總計34筆裡面我們加一線只有一筆所以這樣子的農地銀行沒有辦法提供足夠的這個機會讓我們的農民特別是我們的青農能夠使用所以農地租賃平台他當然是正確的方向"},{"start":3197.498,"end":3213.984,"text":"可是宣導上面還是不足所以說沒有足夠的宣導的話首先不知道有這樣的平台第二個沒有足夠的能量的話就算知道這樣的平台還是沒有辦法來去做租賃使用所以我們是希望說如果能夠讓更多的農民能夠願意把手中的農地放到平台上面去出租"},{"start":3214.224,"end":3214.564,"text":"謝謝陳委員冠廷的發言。"},{"start":3246.141,"end":3270.129,"text":"接下來我們請登記第8號林委員沛翔發言主席陳院長"},{"start":3271.755,"end":3285.65,"text":"各位立院同仁跟媒體先進三天前3月19號本席得知了交通部通過了臺62線快速道路延伸至萬里的方案。針對這個延伸案陳院長跟行政團隊應該是知情的。"},{"start":3288.512,"end":3309.87,"text":"這條快速道路的延伸閘道雖然最後的目的地是新北市萬里區的景美路但該工程主要經過的區域則是基隆市的七堵區跟安樂區本席身為代表基隆市的國會議員對於中央政府變民的交通建設一向給予肯定"},{"start":3310.953,"end":3319.441,"text":"但是針對這個對基隆市來說重大的交通工程建設本席依然有以下的疑問跟建言"},{"start":3320.802,"end":3344.633,"text":"根據新聞媒體報導,臺62線快速道路的新閘道終點是在新北市萬里區。據說建設的目的之一是為了減低假日時到金山萬里遊玩的旅客塞車狀況。但以本席居住在基隆市安樂區多年的經驗,我認為在臺62線的延伸工程實施之時,"},{"start":3346.28,"end":3358.431,"text":"必務必要建置本席於上個月院會質詢時所提出的國道3號設置高架引道銜接台62線西向的快速道路。"},{"start":3359.5,"end":3378.577,"text":"因為目前雖然在地圖上,國道3號與台62號是有交集點的,也有引道來連接兩條主要道路,但是卻只有東向開往九份地區的引道,並沒有一條西向往台62線安樂端的引道。"},{"start":3379.707,"end":3405.69,"text":"因此造成假日旅遊車潮都是往國道3號基金交流道下高速公路,並由市區道路前往金山萬里地區。因此與在大五輪地區居住的3萬位基隆市民在週末的作息造成交通動線上的嚴重衝突。這是本期身為土生土長的基隆人,並自行開車往返臺北通勤多年的自身經驗。"},{"start":3407.591,"end":3432.62,"text":"基於以上理由,為了能夠有效的紓解假日金山萬里地帶的塞車困境,並促進此工程的目的之促進我們的區域經濟發展,本席強烈建議在臺62線快速道路延伸至萬里的工程規劃中,務必要將國道3號連接臺62線西向的道路做出高架引道連結,"},{"start":3433.74,"end":3460.675,"text":"不然將無法有效地把假日行駛在國道3號的車流引入台62線至金山萬里地區,最後花費了估計250億以上的公帑,卻無法達到疏解交通擁捨的目的。以上。謝謝林委員沛翔的發言。報告委員會,現在登記國是論壇發言的委員均已發言完畢,現在休息。"},{"start":5413.442,"end":5434.701,"text":"報告院會請秘書長報告出席人數。報告院會出席委員52人已足法定人數。現在開會進行報告事項。請秘書長宣讀第一會期第5次會議意思錄。宣讀立法院第11屆第一會期第5次會議意思錄時間中華民國113年3月15日上午9時1分至9時27分"},{"start":5439.615,"end":5463.59,"text":"時時至12時7分,下午20時32分至2時40分．三月19日上午9時至10時29分,下午20時30分至46分．地點本院議場出席委員、陳委員、昭氏等113人．內席官員、行政院長陳建倫等19人．主席院長韓國瑜．報告事項第一案宣讀本院第11屆第1會期第4次會議意思度決定、確定"},{"start":5465.575,"end":5484.582,"text":"第二次293案均決定交互相關委員會審查、處理或交互相關委員會。第294案至338案為內政委員會等所提出報告案。執行事項,其他行政院達戶部分一件,與委員執行部分兩件。"},{"start":5486.321,"end":5511.822,"text":"．對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢．決定．下次會議繼續進行交通指示質詢．討論事項．第一案決議．定期處理．報告完畢。報告委員會針對第一會期第5次會議意思錄．並無委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處．作以下之決定．第一會期第5次會議意思錄確定．請宣讀第二案。"},{"start":5512.611,"end":5530.375,"text":"第二案,本院委員謝龍介的20人領據,所得稅法第17條條文修憲草案請審議案。程序委員會見理情委員會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢第三案,本院委員陳昌明等18人領據,水利法第83條之10條文修憲草案請審議案。程序委員會見理情委員會交經濟委員會審查。宣讀完畢"},{"start":5541.24,"end":5569.21,"text":"第四案,門譽委員陳昌明的21人離聚,戶籍法第16條條文修正草案行水案,財政委員會見,立行會交內政委員會審查,宣讀完畢。五議,通過下案。第五案,門譽委員陳昌明的18人離聚,地方民意代表費用之極及村里長需補助費補助條例自內地7條之1條文草案行水案,財政委員會見,立行會交內政委員會審查,宣讀完畢。五議,通過下案。"},{"start":5569.775,"end":5596.673,"text":"第6案 本院委員 高津、宿美等19人離聚,原住民保留地進方補償條例第6條條文修憲草案侵水案,財修委員會見理情和會交、內政、經濟兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢五議通過下議案第7案 本院委員 高津、宿美等20人離聚,原住民族學校法草案侵水案,財修委員會見理情和會交、教育及文化內政兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢五議通過下議案"},{"start":5597.366,"end":5621.647,"text":"第八案,本院委員外媒0等35人離聚,性別平等工作法第15條條維修憲草案請選一案,程序委員會見,您請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣言為畢。第九案,本院委員外媒0等36人離聚,勞動基準法第50條條維修憲草案請選一案,程序委員會見,您請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣言為畢。"},{"start":5624.363,"end":5634.546,"text":"第十案,本院委員外邁林等28人離聚,學校衛生法第23條條維修正常請誰案,查詢委員會見,臨時委員會交及文化委員會審查,宣讀完畢。第十一案,本院委員洪孟凱等21人離聚,中華民國刑法第83條條維修正常請誰案,查詢委員會見,臨時委員會交及法治委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5648.462,"end":5672.35,"text":"無異議通過下議案．第12案本院委員侯孟凱的二十二人凝聚接避者保護法草案請水恩、財修委員會見、立行委員會交付司法及法律委員會審查．宣言完畢無異議通過下議案．第13案本院委員侯孟凱的二十二人凝聚、中華民國刑法第339條之4條維修正財案請水恩、財修委員會見、立行委員會交付司法及法律委員會審查．宣言完畢"},{"start":5673.069,"end":5676.15,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":5701.38,"end":5703.46,"text":"五議通過下案五議通過下案五議通過下案"},{"start":5727.844,"end":5752.259,"text":"第18案．本月委員侯孟凱的20日連續預算法第83條條文修正草案情勢一案．修委員會見議員會交財政委員會審查．宣傳完畢第19案．本月委員侯孟凱的20日連續外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案情勢一案．修委員會見議員會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查．宣傳完畢"},{"start":5753.035,"end":5779.969,"text":"無異議通過下議案。第20案本院委員鍾嘉斌等17人凝聚學校午餐法草案請水案。才修委員會見立行會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過下議案。第21案本院委員林建啟等16人凝聚文化藝術講座及促進條例第15條條維修站草案請水案。才修委員會見立行會教教育及文化財政兩委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過下議案。"},{"start":5780.779,"end":5809.25,"text":"第二十二案本院委員林建啟等17人領據《文化基本法》第24條、第27條及第28條條文修正常案請審議案。陳秀元會見,您請會交教育及文化委員會審查,宣讀完畢。第二十三案本院委員林建啟等16人領據《文化創意產業發展法》第26條、第27條之一及第27條之二條文修正常案請審議案。陳秀元會見,您請會交教育及文化委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5810.046,"end":5813.547,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":5837.588,"end":5858.664,"text":"第二十六案,本院委員賴世保短17年連續《個人資料保護法》第47條、第48條及第49條條維修正常勤水案,求求委員會見臨時會交、經濟委員會審查,宣布完畢五議通過下一案第二十七案,本院委員賴世保短17年連續《電業法》第74條條維修正常勤水案,求求委員會見臨時會交、經濟委員會審查,宣布完畢五議通過下一案"},{"start":5864.687,"end":5867.429,"text":"第二十八案．第二十九案．第二十九案．"},{"start":5889.482,"end":5908.448,"text":"第30案本院委員賴氏堡的18案領據所得稅法第14條之4條維修正常案請審議案。才修委員會見議請會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。第31案本院委員賴氏堡的17案領據所得稅法第17條維修正常案請審議案。才修委員會見議請會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。"},{"start":5913.663,"end":5931.588,"text":"第三十二案本院委員賴世保的18個年居所得稅法第17條條維修正常案請審議案。財政委員會見理事委員會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。第三十三案本院委員賴世保的17個年居遇稅法第62條之一條維修正常案請審議案。財政委員會見理事委員會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5936.673,"end":5940.195,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":5966.428,"end":5990.527,"text":"第三十六案本院委員賴世保的17人聯聚、民法部份條文修正草案請水恩、財修院會見、立行會交、司法及法徵委員會審查。宣讀完畢五議通過下一案第三十七案本院委員賴世保的20人聯聚、立法院執行刑事法增令部份條文草案請水恩、財修院會見、立行會交、司法及法徵委員會審查。宣讀完畢五議通過下一案"},{"start":5991.035,"end":6019.799,"text":"第三十八案本院委員賴氏堡等17人聯聚勞工退休金條例第14條第14條之一及第34條條維修正常案請水恩財修院會見立行會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢五議通過下一案第三十九案本院委員賴氏堡等17人聯聚環境基本法第23條條維修正常案請水恩財修院會見立行會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢五議通過下一案"},{"start":6020.302,"end":6044.77,"text":"第40案,本院委員陣天載的18人聯聚,原住民保留地進方補償條例第5條及第6條條條文修正常案請審議案,採取委員會見,立即回交內政經濟欄委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異通過下一案第41案,本院委員陣天載的16人聯聚,全國新公民投票不在籍投票法草案請審議案,採取委員會見,立即回交內政委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6045.612,"end":6049.334,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6070.083,"end":6074.324,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6095.014,"end":6098.357,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6124.721,"end":6150.516,"text":"第48案 本院委員李柏毅等18人聯聚,學生佛堂法第11條條維修政策請審案,採集委員會見,以及會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣布完畢。無異議通過下一案第49案 本院委員李柏毅等18人聯聚,技術及職業教育法第11條條維修政策請審案,採集委員會見,以及會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣布完畢。無異議通過下一案"},{"start":6151.138,"end":6179,"text":"第五十案本院委員李柏毅等18人聯聚自動安全管理法第二條及第十一條條文修正常勤水案柴修委員會見例行會交交通委員會審查宣讀完畢五議通過下一案第五十一案本院委員李柏毅等18人聯聚國家運輸安全調查委員會組織法第一條及第三條條文修正常勤水案柴修委員會見例行會交司法及法治交通兩委員會審查宣讀完畢五議通過下一案"},{"start":6179.585,"end":6203.275,"text":"第52案,本院委員李博毅等16人聯聚,陸海空軍軍事官服役條例第55條條文修憲草案請水一案,求修委員會見,臨時會交外交及國防委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異通過下一案。第53案,本院委員李博毅等17人聯聚,地方民意大把翻用之際,及村里長修補助費補助條例第6條條文修憲草案請水一案,求修委員會見,臨時會交內政委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6208.004,"end":6211.226,"text":"五一通過下一案五一通過下一案五一通過下一案"},{"start":6237.674,"end":6259.213,"text":"第56案本日委員馬文君等20人聯聚森林法森林第8條之1條文草案請申一案。草修委員會見理事委員會交接近委員會審查。宣讀完畢。第57案本日委員吳慶林等16人聯聚國土計劃法第45條條文修正草案請申一案。草修委員會見理事委員會交內政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6260.014,"end":6264.095,"text":"五一通過下一案五一通過下一案五一通過下一案"},{"start":6289.192,"end":6315.632,"text":"第62本院委員陳素月等19人聯聚老人福利法增定第34條之一條文草案請水恩。陳水恩會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異通過下一案。第61案本院委員陳素月等19人聯聚文明年金法第54條之一條文修正草案請水恩。陳水恩會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6316.69,"end":6320.252,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6344.437,"end":6372.228,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第64案本院委員陳蘇悅等18人已廢止。行政院農業委員會組織條例請選一案。查詢委員會見。擬請回交司法及法制經濟。兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。第65案本院委員已延緩了21年連續電子支付機構管理條例第29套條文修正草案請選一案。查詢委員會見。擬請回交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。"},{"start":6372.932,"end":6400.592,"text":"第66案本院委員吳宗憲等16人連續立法院職權刑事法第15條之一、第15條之二及第15條之四條維修證草案請水一案。財修委員會見立行會交司法及法支援會審查。宣讀完畢。無異通過下一案第67案本院委員吳宗憲等17人連續立法院職權刑事法部分條維修證草案請水一案。財修委員會見立行會交司法及法支援會審查。宣讀完畢。無異通過下一案"},{"start":6401.104,"end":6425.627,"text":"第68案,本院委員吳宗憲的16項領據,立法院職權刑事法部分條文修正常,請水恩、財修委員會見,您請回交司法及法律委員會審查,宣讀完畢。第69案,本院委員吳宗憲的16項領據,立法院職權刑事法第25條及第26條條文修正常,請水恩、財修委員會見,您請回交司法及法律委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6426.889,"end":6452.288,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第七十一案本院委員吳宗憲的十七人連續立法院職權刑事法第十七條條文修正常情水案陳秀燕會見立行會交司法及法治委或審查宣傳畢。無異議通過下一案。第七十一案本院委員吳宗憲的十七人連續立法院職權刑事法第十五條主二條文修正常情水案陳秀燕會見立行會交司法及法治委或審查宣傳畢。"},{"start":6453.703,"end":6474.709,"text":"五一通過下一案。第七十二案。門員委員賴若龍等17人聯聚公子雲財產申報法第五條條維修證草案請審議案。財修委員會見議請會交司法及法證委員會審查。宣討完畢。五一通過下一案。第七十三案。門員委員蘇曉慧等16人聯聚海洋保育法草案請審議案。財修委員會見議請會交內政委員會審查。宣討完畢。五一通過下一案。"},{"start":6481.087,"end":6482.807,"text":"第七十四案．第七十五案．"},{"start":6506.018,"end":6508.6,"text":"第七十六案．第七十七案．第七十七案．"},{"start":6528.971,"end":6556.705,"text":"無異議通過下議案。第七十八案本院委員蘇曉慧等20人聯聚教育人員任用條例部分條文修正草案請審議案。才修委員會見你請會加入司法及法治教育及文化聯盟委員會審查。宣讀完畢無異議通過下議案。第七十九案本院委員黃秀芳等18人聯聚學生輔導法部分條文修正草案請審議案。才修委員會見你請會加入教育及文化委員會審查。宣讀完畢無異議通過下議案。"},{"start":6557.332,"end":6580.029,"text":"第80案,本院委員黃秀芳等18人鄰居,紀念平等工作法第15條條務修正草原清水案,採取委員會見,引起委員會將社會福利優先環境委員會審查,宣讀完畢。五一通過下一案。第81案,本院委員黃秀芳等20人鄰居,社會救助法第二條第4條及第14條條務修正草原清水案,採取委員會見,引起委員會將社會福利優先環境委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6582.799,"end":6585.381,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6607.677,"end":6611.099,"text":"五一通過下議案五一通過下議案五一通過下議案"},{"start":6632.657,"end":6652.722,"text":"第86案,本院委員陳盈等19人凝聚,勞工保險條例第58條條為修正財管情緒一案,陳述委員會見,您請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異,通過下一案。第87案,本院委員王洪維等23人凝聚,添殘期事業法第15條條為修正財管情緒一案,陳述委員會見,您請回交經濟委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6656.803,"end":6660.145,"text":"五、二、通過下一案五、二、通過下一案五、二、通過下一案"},{"start":6682.813,"end":6707.822,"text":"無異議通過下一案．第90案本院委員領得負責17人鄰居東東交通管理處罰條例第30條條務修正草原清水案財修委員會見理事委員會加入交通委員會審查宣讀完畢無異議通過下一案．第91案本院委員領得負責20人鄰居中華民國刑法第354條條務修正草原清水案財修委員會見理事委員會加入司法啟發支援會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":6708.604,"end":6712.865,"text":"五一通過下一案五一通過下一案五一通過下一案五一通過下一案"},{"start":6733.732,"end":6737.295,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6760.532,"end":6764.015,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6785.956,"end":6789.457,"text":"五一通過下一案五一通過下一案五一通過下一案"},{"start":6814.721,"end":6823.527,"text":"第102無異議通過下一案。第101案本院委員臨處應等18日臨時家屬刑及非家屬刑宴稅法第32條之一及第48條之二條維修正常案請審議案。財修委員會見臨時委員會交財政委員會審查宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6842.56,"end":6863.769,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第10二案本院委員羅美玲等17人離聚海洋保育法草案請審議案。才修委員會見你請委會長內政委會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。第10三案本院委員張家俊等22人離聚公務人員退休之前服需法第37條條務修正草案請審議案。才修委員會見你請委會長司法起碼就委會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6868.001,"end":6896.392,"text":"五一通過下一案。第104案本院委員徐欣盈的《十方人連據》一條法題二十一條條文修正草原清水案。求修院會見你請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢。五一通過下一案。第105案本院委員劉建國的《十方人連據》國民年輕法題五十四條至一條文修正草原清水案。求修院會見你請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢。五一通過下一案。"},{"start":6896.837,"end":6921.666,"text":"第106案,委員員劉建國的17人鄰居,癌症防治法第16條條文修正草案請審案。陳秀陽會見,你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢。第107案,委員員劉建國的16人鄰居,老年農民福利今天專行條例第4條條文修正草案請審案。陳秀陽會見,你請回交社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6923.72,"end":6928.041,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6952.679,"end":6981.566,"text":"五一通過下一案。第1102本院委員李燕秀等21人聯聚,兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第25條及第26條條文修正草案請審議案。才修院會見你請回交社會福利優先環境委員會審查。宣告完畢。五一通過下一案。第111案本院委員羅廷偉等21人聯聚最深醫療法草案請審議案。才修院會見你請回交社會福利優先環境委員會審查。宣告完畢。五一通過下一案。"},{"start":6982.13,"end":6995.098,"text":"第1、1、2案本院委員羅廷偉等21人聯聚在政醫療執行管理條例草案請審議案。財修委員會間你請委員會交財政委員會審查。宣布完畢。無異通過下一案。第1、1、3案本院委員羅廷偉等18人聯聚納稅者權利保護法第4條條文修正草案請審議案。財修委員會間你請委員會交財政委員會審查。宣布完畢。無異通過下一案。"},{"start":7008.735,"end":7015.324,"text":"第114案本院委員羅廷偉擔事就任凌駒,未被法定所謂條條無修正財運起訴因案,暫休議員會見,以請回交財政委員會審查。 宣告完畢。"},{"start":7020.373,"end":7049.511,"text":"第1152本院委員黃建豪等17人離聚,地方民意達到費用之際,及村里者需付補儲費補助條例,則內地7條之1條文草案請審議案。才須委員會間,你請回交內政委會審查。宣告完畢。第1162本院委員黃建豪等20人離聚,就業務保險法第10條、第11條及第19條之3條文修正草案請審議案。才須委員會間,你請回交社會福利修正環境委會審查。宣告完畢。"},{"start":7050.563,"end":7054.865,"text":"五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案"},{"start":7078.618,"end":7103.136,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第1、9案本院委員翁曉琳等18人凝聚社會救助法第11條條文修正草案請水案。財修委員會見議請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。訊訊完畢。無異議通過下一案。第1、2、0案本院委員翁曉琳等18人凝聚立法院職權性施法第25條條文修正草案請水案。財修委員會見議請回交司法啟發就委員會審查。訊訊完畢。"},{"start":7105.373,"end":7127.603,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第1、2、1案本院委員吳曉琳等19人聯聚中華民國刑法增添第140條之一條文采完請申案。才修院會見你請會交內政委員會審查。宣布完畢。無異議通過下一案。第1、2、2案本院委員徐宇珍等20人聯聚海洋保育法采完請申案。才修院會見你請會交內政委員會審查。宣布完畢。"},{"start":7130.486,"end":7134.268,"text":"第一、二、三案第一、二、三案第一、二、三案第一、二、三案"},{"start":7158.188,"end":7185.749,"text":"第1、2、5案本院委員徐曉欣的24人鄰居地方民意代表費用之際及村里整修補助費補助條例第6條條維修正常請申案。採訊委員會見您請回交內政委員會審查。宣討完畢無異通過下一案第1、2、6案本院委員徐曉欣的27人鄰居國家機密保護法第11條條維修正常請申案。採訊委員會見您請回交司法啟發之委會審查。宣討完畢無異通過下一案"},{"start":7186.36,"end":7197.07,"text":"第12期案 本院委員許曉新等18日臨時 中華民國新法第286條條維修線草案請審議案 財修委員會見 擬請外交及國防委員會審查 宣布完畢無異議通過下議案第128案 本院委員許曉新等26日臨時 護照條例第36條條維修線草案請審議案 財修委員會見 擬請外交及國防委員會審查 宣布完畢"},{"start":7210.475,"end":7237.134,"text":"無異議通過下議案。第129案本院委員徐曉欣的16人連續電信法第63條及第64條條文修正草案請水案。財修委員會見理事會交交通委員會審查。宣告完畢。無異議通過下議案。第130案本院委員廖偉翔等18人連續兒童接少年福利與權益保障法增添第6條之一條文草案請水案。財修委員會見理事會交社會福利協商環境委員會審查。宣告完畢。"},{"start":7238.032,"end":7261.46,"text":"無異議通過下一案．第13一案．本院委員廖偉祥等16人鄰居．中華民國刑法第77條及第272條之一條為修正草原侵水案．財修委員會見你請回交司法及法修委員會審查．宣告完畢．無異議通過下一案．第13二案．本院委員呂玉玲等16人鄰居．農業發生條例第60條條為修正草原侵水案．財修委員會見你請回交經濟委員會審查．宣告完畢．"},{"start":7265.02,"end":7268.141,"text":"五、一、通過下議案五、一、通過下議案五、一、通過下議案"},{"start":7287.577,"end":7307.153,"text":"無異議通過下議案。第13、52本院委員緩解短時欺人連續工廠管理輔導法部份條文修正財務請水恩。財修委員會見你請回交經濟委員會審查,訓斷完畢。無異議通過下議案。第13、62本院委員緩解短時欺人連續設防法部份條文修正財務請水恩。財修委員會見你請回交內政委員會審查,訓斷完畢。"},{"start":7310.714,"end":7335.555,"text":"無異議通過下一案．第13期案．保育委員莊瑞雄等20人聯聚．海洋保育法草原侵水案．財修委員會見你請回交內政委員會審查．宣讀完畢無異議通過下一案．第13幫案．保育委員莊瑞雄等18人聯聚．地方民意代表費用之際．遵令掌握事務補助費補助條例第6條條文修正草原侵水案．財修委員會見你請回交內政委員會審查．宣讀完畢"},{"start":7336.383,"end":7362.003,"text":"無異通過下議案。第13、9案本院委員鍾業雄等21屆臨居國民體育法第23條條文修正草案請審議案。財修委員會見理情會交交集文化委員會審查宣告完畢。無異通過下議案。第14、0案本院委員陳培宇等18人臨居國際法整理第6條之一條文草案請審議案。財修委員會見理情會交內政委員會審查宣告完畢。無異通過下議案。"},{"start":7362.625,"end":7383.578,"text":"第一四一案委員臺灣民眾老老團聯聚新住民基本法草案請水恩採修委員會見你請回交內政委員會審查宣告完畢第一四二案委員臺灣民眾老老團聯聚證券交易法第十四條條文修正草案請水恩採修委員會見你請回交財政委員會審查宣告完畢"},{"start":7384.266,"end":7389.448,"text":"五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案"},{"start":7407.881,"end":7410.243,"text":"五、一、通過下議案五、一、通過下議案五、一、通過下議案"},{"start":7438.055,"end":7441.056,"text":"五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案"},{"start":7463.123,"end":7466.705,"text":"五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案"},{"start":7487.369,"end":7511.52,"text":"報告委員會臺灣民眾黨團提議改交審查由經濟委員會來審查。無異議通過下議案。第15議案經濟部海外修正出流管制計畫書與規劃書檢核基準及洪峰流量計算方法第五點及第六點規定。財修委員會見議請回交經濟委員會。宣告完畢。無異議通過下議案。"},{"start":7512.079,"end":7539.151,"text":"第152案 農業部函文修正公告立陶宛及美國愛德河州自公務員性降息流息性感冒非疫區刪除。才修委員會見你請回交經濟委員會。宣告完畢。第153案 農業部函文修正公告立陶宛及美國愛德河州自公務員性降息流息性感冒非疫區刪除。才修委員會見你請回交經濟委員會。宣告完畢。無異通過下一案 無異通過下一案"},{"start":7539.639,"end":7563.633,"text":"第154案（奴役部海維修鎮進門地區偶體類動物及其產品,禁止出往臺灣本島及其他離島。才修委員會見。您請回交基金委員會。宣傳完畢。第155案（奴役部海維修鎮停止自發生非洲豬瘟之滾下地區,以郵遞寄送輸入豬肉產品第二點規定。才修委員會見。您請回交基金委員會。宣傳完畢。"},{"start":7564.403,"end":7567.564,"text":"五一通過下議案五一通過下議案五一通過下議案"},{"start":7589.332,"end":7616.139,"text":"第15方案 財政部海外修正不仁計算收工外國企業所得適用辦法 財政委員會見民情和教材政委員會 宣讀完畢 無異通過下議案第159案 基礎監督管理委員會海外修正 基礎監督管理委員會主管政府捐助及經指令民間捐助財政法人監督管理辦法第14條附件五 財政委員會見民情和教材政委員會 宣讀完畢 無異通過下議案"},{"start":7616.598,"end":7643.155,"text":"第160案金融監督管理委員會和維修陣保險業辦理在保險分出分入及其他危險分散機制管理辦法部份談判陳旭委員會見您請回交財政委員會宣讀完畢五議通過下議案第160議案金融監督管理委員會和維修陣專業在保險業財務業務管理辦法陳旭委員會見您請回交財政委員會宣讀完畢五議通過下議案"},{"start":7643.769,"end":7664.237,"text":"第162案 金融監督管理委員會海維修正 請領會計稅證書與申請職業單期規則 裁修委員會件 歷經會教財政委員會 宣准完畢第1632案 金融監督管理委員會海維修正 有價證券等為融資融券標準第二條及第八條條文 裁修委員會件 歷經會教財政委員會 宣准完畢"},{"start":7666.966,"end":7672.247,"text":"五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案五、一通過下一案"},{"start":7693.956,"end":7697.458,"text":"五、一通過下議案五、一通過下議案五、一通過下議案"},{"start":7718.757,"end":7718.777,"text":"第1、6、8、9、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、39、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":7747.935,"end":7748.895,"text":"無異議通過下議案無異議通過下議案"},{"start":7764.96,"end":7793.937,"text":"第172案,就議布函文國民中小學校長主任教師甄選儲蓄及借聘辦法名稱修正為公立國民小學及國民中學校長主任甄選儲蓄辦法並修正條文,採取委員會間歷行外交教育及文化委員會。宣讀完畢。第172案,就議布函文公立國民小學及國民中學海外蘭才子女專門設立辦方,採取委員會間歷行外交教育及文化委員會。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":7794.577,"end":7797.859,"text":"五、一通過下議案五、一通過下議案五、一通過下議案"},{"start":7815.913,"end":7819.034,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":7843.635,"end":7844.596,"text":"無異議通過下議案"},{"start":7865.23,"end":7891.75,"text":"第178案 考試院行為修正公務人員特種考試 原住民族考試規則第7條、第11條條文集、第3條、副表3、第5條、副表7、副表8、財修委員會見、立行會交、司法及法制委員會 宣傳完畢第179案 考試院行為修正公務人員特種考試 國際經濟商務人員考試規則第9條條文集、第4條、副表2、財修委員會見、立行會交、司法及法制委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":7894.019,"end":7917.492,"text":"第18領案 考試院行為修正命題規則第6條條文及月卷規則第25條、第26條、第30條條文。陳修緣會見臨行會交司法及法事委員會。宣告完畢。第18議案 衛生福利部涵送本院制定社會福利基本法通過負擔決議第二項書面報告。陳修緣會見臨行會交社會福利及生活環境委員會。宣告完畢。"},{"start":7918.57,"end":7924.033,"text":"無異議通過報告院會第182案到第374案請依序宣讀其中第189案198到200案233到247案339到373案國民黨黨團提議改交審查"},{"start":7946.564,"end":7946.764,"text":"第182案、186、188、189、191、198、207、211、216到218、235、236、238到240"},{"start":7968.131,"end":7996.153,"text":"兩百四十三兩百四十四到兩百四十七兩百四十九三百四十三三百五十三三百五十五三百七十四案臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查宣讀後以上提案均交相關委員會審查其餘議案均照程序委員會意見通過請問院會"},{"start":7998.274,"end":8020.128,"text":"有異議,無異議宣讀後通過,請宣讀。第18、2案至第197案內選部,第198案中央選舉委員會,第199案至第20案不到當場處理委員會,第20案至第20案援助民族委員會,第20案至第21案經濟部,第21案至第22案行政院主席總署,"},{"start":8020.928,"end":8045.034,"text":"第二、七、二、三、一、金融監督管理委員會第二、三、二、三、四、國立故宮博物院第二、三、五、集體、二、三、六、國家通訊全部委員會第二、三、七、二、四、七、數位發展部第二、四、八、總統府第二、四、九、考試院第二、五、零、三、三、八、國防部第三、三、九、三、六、交通部第三、七、零、三、七、三、核能安全委員會"},{"start":8046.054,"end":8053.202,"text":"第三期時段財政部還為113年度相關預算、113年度中央政府總算的預算決議分別簡訊相關報告,宣讀完畢。報告委員會,第375項項請一併宣讀,宣讀後均准予備查,請宣讀。"},{"start":8066.803,"end":8082.308,"text":"第三期委員．第3802為本院社會福利及衛生委會函為院會交付選上衛生福利部108年度中央政府總算權益案等案均已於年度預算執行期間．第3802為本院社會福利及衛生環境委會函"},{"start":8082.788,"end":8110.968,"text":"委員會交互審查財政法人國家衛生研究院109年度工作執行成果及收支決算案等案因已於送達後一年內完成審查至期限,原依決算法第28條規定適同審議通過。質詢事項：行政院答覆部分,先去函送本院常務委員金輝等所提質詢之書面答覆共11件,以本院委員質詢部分、本院盧委員志強等向行政院提出質詢共7件。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":8113.123,"end":8128.545,"text":"報告委員會,現在對行政院院長、施政方針以及施政報告繼續質詢。今天進行個人質詢、交通組之質詢。我們現在請登記第一號陳委員超明質詢。"},{"start":8146.421,"end":8172.638,"text":"今天只是我們的韓院長好那今天我剛好立法院總執行排在第一個我再次特別感謝國民黨的立委還有民眾黨的立委來跟我鼓勵加油還有民進黨的立委來共襄盛行這可以講是立法院總執行人最多最熱鬧的一天"},{"start":8173.539,"end":8196.582,"text":"我會在此相信我們的韓院長一定以和諧公平來主持會議來帶領我們國會的革新還有對國家重要政策作為一個最好的決定我相信這個是一個好的開始那現在我開始請我們行政院的陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢"},{"start":8204.762,"end":8207.284,"text":"我覺得我在任何的職務上都是"},{"start":8233.925,"end":8244.821,"text":"我曉得這是官方標準答案,我問的是兩個心態的差別在哪裡?這副總統該勤商還是這行政院長該勤商?全大、四大哪一個?"},{"start":8245.262,"end":8263.034,"text":"各有各的責任我當副總統的時候因為要做年金改革又要做婚姻平權等等是有相當多的責任那在行政院長當然更多各個部會都有就像你剛才講的交通、未還、經濟都要involved都要同"},{"start":8266.758,"end":8281.908,"text":"解決煩惱的事情、複雜的事情比較多。我再請教你,你當行政院剩下兩個月,你有沒有感覺到我做一天和尚敲一天鐘,人走茶樑?"},{"start":8284.444,"end":8298.792,"text":"我想我剛才已經講過我做任何的事情都是競技業業的來做我一定會做到5月19日認真做到5月19日而且會跟新的內閣來做無縫的接軌因為剛好也是民進黨繼續執政"},{"start":8300.433,"end":8312.279,"text":"另外一個重點問題,像我今天要跟你執行的問題,你跟我講好或是答應下來的事情,你會不會交給下一任的行政院長,沒有這樣問這個意思,這個總執行就沒什麼用啦。"},{"start":8316.021,"end":8318.242,"text":"我會不會交代下去?我會特別感謝我們陳院長"},{"start":8340.629,"end":8367.131,"text":"我說你是所有官員裡面比較不敢講不真實話的人,因為我感受很深。在照巧交流不到,剛好選舉的期間,你們執政黨跟我的候選人站在一起,你看到我在那邊講話比較悲慘,容然把我名字講出來,所以我貢獻很多。不然我出的場合都是講沒有功勞,所以我這一點很稱讚。你是一個比較"},{"start":8368.968,"end":8397.21,"text":"誠實誠懇的人這是我一定要做的再來我想NCC我很少講話然後我自己有官司現在在打打了16次的官司新聞的自由報導跟平衡的報導很重要交通部長我講NCC我講NCC啦不是啊不是那個主委你也不要上來啦"},{"start":8398.188,"end":8420.393,"text":"我只建議一項,院長,16次的官司失敗,這代表了一種一連串的失敗。這是一件小事。行政機關都請了最好的律師,怎麼會一直失敗?我想,我想你,因為我從這以來沒有請過一個官員說你要下台怎麼樣,你要自動辭職。"},{"start":8422.008,"end":8440.613,"text":"因為我看了整個事件尤其我是無黨了真的關閉一個新聞台是很重要的事情你真的很你們很清率在處理這樣事情本來民主進步我感覺是民主退步我只說在這那個我跟你建立一樣的事情好不好"},{"start":8441.073,"end":8453.124,"text":"我可以講一下嗎?關於NCC這個相關的訴訟案,當然每一個人的算法都不一樣,不同審計也在算。但是實際上其中26個案,14件是勝訴,只有兩件敗訴。"},{"start":8460.43,"end":8462.051,"text":"好不好,這樣就好,來"},{"start":8488.565,"end":8489.306,"text":"我今天第一個就是"},{"start":8518.227,"end":8543.285,"text":"因應我們投擲紫苗大溪谷的計畫苗栗重大的建設我在這邊有三個大的重要建設請我們的行政院長還有我們的王部長要大全力的支持。第一個舞陽高高架化延伸到頭分的地方這個非常重要因為紫苗大溪谷計畫"},{"start":8544.324,"end":8573.327,"text":"是跟著新宿市連結在一起。所以你這個地方要趕快延伸到那邊,未來才有發展,交通才不會擁擠。還有一條,大家比較情為感謝院長期間,把那個新宿到香山啊,那個西濱的高架化。這一條也很重要,因為直覽、投運、貨輪都是連接著新宿縣、新宿市的。所以大西部這一計畫這個要完成。"},{"start":8574.329,"end":8593.011,"text":"然後一個大新竹的輕軌計劃,我給院長、部長您要知道,新竹市及廟的主覽投資是聯合在一起,生活圈也在一起。所以在這個新竹的輕軌計劃,你們勢必要延展到主覽投資,才能整個施解交通問題。"},{"start":8595.151,"end":8607.839,"text":"這會議可以轉到高雄市區嗎?我想這個前面兩個計畫委員都很清楚現在都在不斷的在推動進行當中那大新竹的這個輕軌計畫這個計畫基本上應該是地方政府"},{"start":8613.142,"end":8625.312,"text":"再來推動,那我們會看他推動的狀況,有必要的話,我們交通部會來幫助。地方政府推動還是中央政府推動?還是地方政府規劃?規劃來跟中央申請選委。這個我來處理,我會追蹤考核。再來第二點,"},{"start":8634.824,"end":8654.693,"text":"我們苗栗高鐵站中班勢必在行。我為2016年到2023年我們已經超過18萬進次了,以前很少我都不好意思開口。但是我們才一小時一班,我為了要來台北執行我都一大早要起來。"},{"start":8655.578,"end":8667.507,"text":"我希望不管你南下北上在兩個小時之間再參加一班,不然到我們那邊做高鐵的幫忙確實到一小時一班。"},{"start":8668.868,"end":8678.354,"text":"議長,這能幫我倒數嗎?因為我苗栗很尷尬,到臺北是10分鐘,到臺中才28分鐘就到了,所以你們都把他稱呼掉,你看桃園新竹,臺中的班次那麼多,我們真的發展,你們就拖廉一下。"},{"start":8694.585,"end":8698.188,"text":"我希望,我也拜託王部長,我馬上會召開協調會,您把計畫領好。我希望在我們陳院長的任內裡面把他通過啦,好嗎?"},{"start":8711.679,"end":8723.586,"text":"不要笑著不回答,好像是沒有你們的事情。我希望合理的,沒有這樣啦,一天一天單純單純通通的事情。我這個講我的空間已經很大了,兩個小時增加一班啦,這不苛刻的要求好不好。"},{"start":8739.957,"end":8747.869,"text":"不要只有大都會的地方,班次特別多。我們這個飛六都的班次特別少,真的要加強改進啊。"},{"start":8748.852,"end":8761.298,"text":"不要為大都市的人在生活,全部都依靠他們,我們這邊都沒有人在照顧,希望改進一點。我叫國體來研究,跟委員來討論。王部長,你跟高鐵公司講,叫他15天弄一個計畫出來,這個很快,我馬上召開協調會議。陳院長,你就答應,王部長答應通過好不好。"},{"start":8773.664,"end":8786.598,"text":"我請議員先研究,然後再討論。你院長在,你不敢亂答應,院長所答應,電台在消音。我講的都合理啦,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理,我講的都合理。"},{"start":8791.177,"end":8815.868,"text":"鐵路雙軌化,我這講了久了,講了十幾年,我總執行七年。現在所有鐵路連東部都雙軌化,只有我們苗栗到台中這一段沒有雙軌化,雖然已經合定,6年完成。這跟我們的大四股計畫連接台中都是新指示,都是息息相關。這個已經合定。"},{"start":8818.987,"end":8827.975,"text":"十五點九公立我希望你們六年完成改為四年完成你交代一下啦,效率沒那麼高啦,這樣"},{"start":8829.709,"end":8849.02,"text":"五點九公里要做任何的不看靠的,表示我們行政效率很低啊。對,委員你也很清楚,這工程當然是可以進來可以辦,但是在這個規約、規約的中間,我們希望這最重要的要來進行。當然如果可以加緊,那就加緊。但是這個溝通不太清楚啦。我請補充簡單講一下,補充簡單講一下。你已經可行應過,來一個是綜合規劃啦,我們加速啦。"},{"start":8858.866,"end":8878.84,"text":"我們加速來進行這個麻煩一下再來驗離跨戰式的為什麼提了這一條當初我協調的時候說你們的雙軌計畫要把這個計畫放在裡面現在我們查了一下雙軌計畫沒有放著驗離跨越式的車站這一點你們這個一百六十幾"},{"start":8885.069,"end":8904.923,"text":"這只有三個月,還是要請你們鐵道局還是鐵路公司把它完成掉,因為縣裡的發展那個差別很大,一條鐵路直隔著兩邊的情形發展差別很大,而且一天有2200人在這邊上下車,這條你們來做一下。"},{"start":8907.15,"end":8912.335,"text":"我希望這有辦法跟政府再來溝通。院長,你是好人,這條你給我三頁,三頁而已,唉唷,還在後面。好不好?我現在會跟廟裡館政府來..."},{"start":8924.548,"end":8927.049,"text":"我跟委員講,這個3月20時苗栗縣政府的公文已經交通部有收到,所以我會請交通部開始來進行。"},{"start":8946.734,"end":8969.184,"text":"包括你們那邊的議員都提出來,我講你們那邊的都提出來,這個是利益富裕的地方。我這次好不容易才贏了一次,寫了五次沒有一次贏,但是我容然遭受,這個拜託你幫我完成一下,再下來。所以說館政府要加油啦?沒有啦,館政府要加油啦,就我不講了。就用地方來合作啦,這很重要。你給我答應喔,"},{"start":8972.745,"end":8973.205,"text":"臺中都要拜託時間到了"},{"start":8999.949,"end":9025.965,"text":"啊,這個以前我是從鐵道局,這個很成功的一個案例,就是3億的Royalbike要延伸到台中,其實那一段很漂亮,尤其台中的人口那麼多,兩邊一交流下來,這一條是在交通裡面光光景點,最成功的一個示範的一個基地啊。啊,現在我想說,一定,"},{"start":9027.186,"end":9043.135,"text":"市長,委員延伸到台中1點,麻煩您來幫忙一下,這裡面還有人都要來加強設施的地方。好,我給委員報告一下,確實是鐵道自行車的補分在苗年管政府在做的時候是做到新成功,就像你說的那樣。但是現在要延伸到台中的時候,我也要跟台中市政府再來"},{"start":9058.588,"end":9069.841,"text":"時間有限,你幫我放通宵的銅鑼科學引擎到通宵盡量。這一條,我希望在我日內能完成,非常重要的道路。"},{"start":9071.038,"end":9079.464,"text":"我相信我這四年的立委任期,我希望能斷工或是完成,我就功成身退了。我要請議長這樣緊張一下,請你拜託把我完成一下。"},{"start":9098.357,"end":9105.808,"text":"謝謝陳委員超明的質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第二位,土委員全級發言,質詢,謝謝。"},{"start":9128.114,"end":9149.743,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那請我們陳建仁陳院長。再請陳院長備詢。各位院長。好,好,院長。我請問一下,我們大圓航空城這個徵收案,我們院長應該知道吧?我知道。"},{"start":9150.672,"end":9170.25,"text":"因為他是我們中華民國有史以來區段徵收最大的開發案那徵收這個面積也突破到3148公頃那當初這些搬遷的市民他這個徵收有兩種補償方式那院長知道哪兩種補償方式嗎?"},{"start":9171.817,"end":9178.143,"text":"主要分兩種,一種是現金的補償,還有一種是抵價地,一個是用錢用現金,另外一個就是也是用現金等值的抵價地,兩種方式給我們徵收戶的民眾去選擇。"},{"start":9195.959,"end":9210.166,"text":"那這些徵收戶他都是配合國家重大建設跟政策那所以我認為他們是不是應該都享有同樣的待遇對應該那現在他們面臨一個問題就是我們這些徵收戶他選擇現金補償的"},{"start":9217.059,"end":9237.877,"text":"他現金補償以後他的老農津貼跟國民年金沒有被牌付所影響但是後來這些徵收戶因為有百分之九十幾因為他們認為這個地他被徵收掉他希望拿回這個地那我們政府也希望說不用發那麼多錢出去用地去抵這個地"},{"start":9238.377,"end":9264.237,"text":"所以後來他們就選擇這個底價地但是後來當他們收到權狀之後收到這安置接貨權狀之後居然馬上房子都還沒蓋收到權狀之後就被這個排付條款排除在老農津貼跟國民年金之外所以是不是這部分我希望是不是應該享有同樣的待遇是不是院長這邊是不是可以來幫我們解決一下"},{"start":9264.757,"end":9281.552,"text":"我想這件事情的話我們行政院是由政府院長來召集相關的會議然後會來就這樣子的看起來比較不一致的這個的情況會來做相關的討論那當然他的老容津貼的這個部分呢"},{"start":9281.972,"end":9283.853,"text":"我希望院長再幫忙一下,因為那時候我們有提出"},{"start":9299.657,"end":9320.754,"text":"也希望政府院長在召開航空城這個專案會議的時候像3月11日我們希望說有希望來討論這部分可是後來我們發現好像並沒有討論所以希望院長這邊能夠交辦一下針對我們稅捐機關農業部跟衛福部的部分希望跨部會來解決這個問題"},{"start":9322.745,"end":9327.59,"text":"因為當初民航局也有跟衛福部跟農業部說其實應該這個底價地應該也是符合這個損害賠償性質因為這個所得稅法說他們因為這個拿現金"},{"start":9338.32,"end":9362.474,"text":"是符合損害賠償性質所以他沒有在排付之內可是不知道為什麼反而拿這個同等值的地居然被排除在外所以民航局也認為說應該這個拿這個底價地應該也符合這損壞賠償性質所以這部分希望我們院長幫我們這些徵收戶爭取他們合法的權益畢竟這些徵收戶都是"},{"start":9362.914,"end":9374.091,"text":"配合國家重大政策我們也不希望往後區段徵收有這些問題影響到民眾對於徵收表達強烈的不滿也怕他們抵制這個徵收"},{"start":9375.438,"end":9393.517,"text":"好,這個部分我剛才已經說過,我會請我們政府院長來召集相關的部會來討論。請院長這部分多幫忙。接下來我們看一下下一段針對我們道路改善的影片,我們先播放請大家來看一下。"},{"start":9398.936,"end":9422.111,"text":"這個是有加快速度這是前幾天我們去針對這個路段拍攝的這個影片他這一段路就是隨便走一段路那知道請問院長不然應該知道這一段是在哪裡吧知道對"},{"start":9423.683,"end":9443.031,"text":"那是在哪裡?就是在這個觀音這一段。那部長對這也了解,因為我相信非常多的民眾陳情,這台六一我們桃園這沿海路段,它似乎到觀音這個路段,那這個坑坑洞洞的道路非常非常的不平整,而且"},{"start":9443.951,"end":9444.772,"text":"這個部分我想我們請部長來回答"},{"start":9470.587,"end":9491.861,"text":"對,各位報告,從111開始修,今年會徹底,有筆經費4.5億,會全部把它改善完畢。什麼時候開始動工修?從111年就開始修了。那可是還是很壞啊。對,但是今年,今年113有4.5億會丟進去,總共把那個77公里全部把它修完。那預計什麼時候可以全面重複完成?"},{"start":9492.361,"end":9511.003,"text":"就是那個今年年底全部修完今年年底可以全部修復完成所以現在已經陸續在修今年年底我們就有一條完整的道路是現在大概已經修了三十幾公里了好那我也順便跟部長報告台六一也是這樣台六六我相信你也接到很多反應吧是是"},{"start":9511.283,"end":9521.349,"text":"還有我們台六六我們在觀音段現在還是平交入口常常發生很多的意外而且造成很多交通的瓶頸那這個全面高架什麼時候可以啟動?"},{"start":9537.983,"end":9555.991,"text":"現在有一段在施工了,現在這五個路口平面路口,比較靠海在關於這一部分是現在設計,事業會發包,然後另外再過來6K這部分現在已經在施工中了。"},{"start":9556.94,"end":9558.262,"text":"所以目前現在已經開始在施作,你說4月發保是嗎?"},{"start":9569.604,"end":9596.3,"text":"有一段在分兩標,有一標在施工,一標事業要花包。所以預計116年全部可以高價完成?對。好,那這部分還請我們部長來多叮嚀。那還有我們針對我們桃園市大園,國二甲台15線延伸到台61線這個新建工程,因為它這現在也是我們航空城主要的連外道路,那不知道現在這個進度到哪裡?"},{"start":9597.04,"end":9598.783,"text":"好沒關係部長因為我的重點在後面齁"},{"start":9613.004,"end":9632.094,"text":"因為這個國道二甲延伸到台六一它延伸之後最主要我們希望把這個下面下方這個道路是不是可以一併納入這個工程裡面不要到時候二次施工造成民眾這個二次的傷害而且到時候再施工絕對會把這個工程期又再延長"},{"start":9633.174,"end":9662.021,"text":"這有需要跟地方政府討論一下,因為這個跟地方政府有關係對,這個我有跟地方政府先溝通過他們說希望交通部納入經費的部分各方面他們希望可以全數配合但是最主要希望交通部能夠納入這個國道二甲台15線延伸到台61線希望把它納入規劃跟施作裡面那地方政府的部分他說經費各方面他們希望跟交通部來全面配合"},{"start":9663.519,"end":9691.048,"text":"這個需要討論一下因為我們一般是這個高價段是我們負責平面段包括徵收還有一些因為下方道路我們交通部有負責鋪平的責任那我是希望直接先納入不要做好以後到時候再來什麼可行性評估再來徵收土地再來做是不是應該先納入直接把這個工程在做高價橋樑的時候一次一併把它做好"},{"start":9691.628,"end":9717.291,"text":"委員當時的可行性評估就我的了解好像只是說高架路的部分並沒有在平面的這個可行性評估那如果現在平面要納進來這個我讓交通部跟地方政府齁一起來討論看看好不好因為今天講的這只要目的因為當初當初做的是做高架路的評估嘛因為民眾一直反映啦希望說能夠一併來施作因為這個下面這道路是一定要做的"},{"start":9717.851,"end":9729.786,"text":"為什麼不在座的時候一併來做,到時候有審時,然後民眾也不用說等到高架做好又再來做道路,他把這個工程期拉得很長。這請部長再跟我們多幫忙,希望把這個一併納入這個我們規劃跟施作裡面。"},{"start":9736.374,"end":9763.372,"text":"那還有我們現在五陽高價延伸就是剛剛我們陳昌明委員也有講國道1號這個陽頭路的拓寬就是陽梅道頭份那這個我們已經確定會去做了那現在針對陽梅的部分是不是能夠把這個陽梅的針射閘道一併納入我們的陽頭段的拓寬工程裡面"},{"start":9763.86,"end":9786.56,"text":"希望這個北出南入這個閘道能夠一併納入來一起施作。我們現在請高工局在研究啦,過去這部分有在研究。因為我有去了解啦,那你有請那個地方交通局去做這個可行性評估。那其實經過我們討論過,他說這個可行性評估是絕對要做。"},{"start":9789.162,"end":9816.244,"text":"所以很多民眾還有地方政府也希望交通部能夠把這個一併納入不要像我們舞陽高架那個中峰北交流道民國99年高架完成現在隔了15年現在才去做中峰北的交流道當初做的時候就希望做結果那時候不納入你看現在又在那邊施工民眾說15年前就可以規劃可以完成的東西為什麼隔了15年以後再來做"},{"start":9816.744,"end":9833.124,"text":"所以希望這個楊梅真色閘道也希望納入我們楊頭段的拓寬工程裡面。這個地方政府先提出來,然後跟我們一起討論這樣。好,那希望這個提出來,希望交通部能夠為我們民眾的福祉多幫忙配合。"},{"start":9834.745,"end":9836.206,"text":"還有也是這個羊頭段拓寬的"},{"start":9858.596,"end":9883.812,"text":"因為現在陽梅我們當初我們公路總局也有撥了一筆經費把我們陽梅深深路打通到秀才路然後再連接到我們的中山南路這一部分我們公路局那時候有撥了好像撥了兩億多的經費那像這個路段深深路打到秀才路這路段今年內就會通車接下來就要連接到我們的"},{"start":9884.552,"end":9884.572,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":9899.878,"end":9912.212,"text":"所以暫時停擺,所以是不是希望在北上方下一樣我們洋頭段這個拓寬工程高架下方道路我們是不是請交通部高工局也可以一併納入這個設計跟施作裡面。"},{"start":9915.215,"end":9943.742,"text":"這可能要看它的整個高層怎麼接啦我想還是一樣就是說有一些分析如果地方有這個想法我想說可以討論但是畢竟它工程面要去討論那我這邊提出那我也希望到時候我們要求我們地方政府交通局也來提出然後最主要希望交通部能夠來配合我們希望真的把這個工程能夠一次來完成不要做了以後又再二次施工造成更多的問題"},{"start":9944.822,"end":9957.258,"text":"還有我們之前我們楊梅交流道有在那個增設北上的專用道楊梅交流道有增設的北上交流道的專用道"},{"start":9957.927,"end":9984.497,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":9985.519,"end":9992.833,"text":"徵道路造成他們很多的危險性所以他們希望能夠在各個地方來徵社我們的機車專用道"},{"start":9995.199,"end":10018.886,"text":"這個部分因為它主要是要分流嘛然後我想說這部分也一樣就是交通局先提出來對我希望這部分交通局配合因為這之前提出像我們南崁跟中壢新戶交通道都有做這個計策專用道不知道為什麼到陽梅爭取的時候你們就百般的很多的問題說這也不行那也不行可是對我們來講我們覺得那都是藉口"},{"start":10019.426,"end":10030.536,"text":"因為平民旁邊就可以拓寬,就可以去做,所以這部分提出希望我們交通部這部分能夠來幫忙來協助,到時候來辦理這個會刊。希望我們行政院跟交通部為民來多幫忙"},{"start":10043.797,"end":10044.738,"text":"謝謝圖委員全機的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第9號,嚴委員寬恒質詢。"},{"start":10075.398,"end":10081.846,"text":"主席、各位列席委員、各位列席官員、主席。我想請行政院陳院長。再請陳院長備詢。院委員早。院長早。早。"},{"start":10090.211,"end":10115.23,"text":"院長,以下每一項交通建設的質詢都非常重要,都將影響到整個大台中未來的發展。那因為時間有限,我先大概說明,就是中坑西南向臨外道路、西屯路四段銜接向上路已經在112年的8月份通車。這項建設從爭取到完工通車超過10年的時間,本期爭取的時間超過10年。"},{"start":10116.519,"end":10139.37,"text":"那這條道路確實通車之後有效的改善了由原北路跟臺灣大道上下班時間的車流。這條道路的誕生是為了要營運中部科學園區數萬多名的工作人員上下班疏導車流而生。但是現在面臨的另外一個問題就是西屯路三段跟東大路一段它成為交通的瓶頸。"},{"start":10140.47,"end":10163.918,"text":"中科西南向延伸特5號計劃道路都會沿路延伸到東大路新闢路段這一條道路是60米計劃道路現在地價高漲又改為實價徵收龐大的費用不是地方政府所能承擔市政府會儘速規劃爭取中央預算本席認為中科管理局也應該要積極向中央反映"},{"start":10164.718,"end":10178.829,"text":"臨海道路開闢的迫切性而不是只關心產業發展而忽略周邊交通的問題。那中部科學園區臺中園區擴建二期案通過都市計畫變更臺積電未來會持續擴敞。那基地位於臺中園區西側面積89.75公頃是為了因應臺灣半導體產業佈局需求及未來整體發展而開發。"},{"start":10190.646,"end":10209.336,"text":"那未來還會再增加5000個就業機會所以你可以想像到在現在的一個上下班的車流再加上5000部的汽機車還有往來運輸的大型車輛這裡的交通一定會癱瘓但是我們在地的居民沒有那麼多的10年可以等待"},{"start":10210.416,"end":10229.842,"text":"我們已經在112年的7月27日由臺中市多位議員還有施議會副議長以及中科管理局前往會館。當天科管局也有派員出席,更在會議記錄上寫下本次討論之領外道路對於疏解周邊交通確有幫助。"},{"start":10230.728,"end":10250.306,"text":"本席希望既然政府如此看重中科和台積電來台中設廠這對於台中創造就業機會是好事但發展半導體是我國的發展目標我希望到時候中央不要袖手旁觀因為這不僅僅是地方政府的責任中央應該要用最大的善意來予以協助"},{"start":10252.273,"end":10269.543,"text":"台中的生活圈道路系統,從東到西,從北到南,台74、台61、國道1、1號、3號、4號,除了東勢和平之外,幾乎可以透過快速道路和快速公路來進行銜接,但是本席的選區大度變成了孤兒。"},{"start":10270.779,"end":10291.132,"text":"本席爭取的大渡河美大橋2026年通車之後可以有效的分流國道3號龍井交流道和向上路的大型車輛可以透過河美大橋直接通往台中港區但是對於民眾的通勤車流幫助有限加上大渡只有一個主要道路就是省道台一線"},{"start":10293.734,"end":10314.732,"text":"緊有兩線到了沙田路由北至南貫穿大渡區。大渡進來的人口也持續上升,所以非常需要生活圈道路的開闢,這將對大渡龍井台中港區有極大的幫助。目前台74延伸到龍井台61線生活圈4號大渡延伸段,在2020年通過環評。"},{"start":10317.836,"end":10318.376,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":10333.376,"end":10356.586,"text":"未來會爭取111到116年納入生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫因為總經費非常龐大要請行政院來支持所以院長這部分你可不可以表態你願不願意支持大都區的這個生活圈道路委員你剛才提到的這有關於這一個道路的延伸還有這一個"},{"start":10357.385,"end":10383.195,"text":"大度的延伸段的這個部分都是屬於這個內政部營建署主政的部分那因為我們今天是交通專題的個人的質詢他們沒有來但是我可以跟您報告就是說這一個生活圈的道路當然是地方政府以來規劃嘛規劃完了以後把相關的看他的可行性必要性以後然後他就會提出計畫向內政部營建署來提出經費的補助"},{"start":10385.256,"end":10385.997,"text":"現在已經是全國第二大都"},{"start":10409.572,"end":10436.25,"text":"每每在預算上因為臺中市政府的財政狀況好所以就變成這個財力成績已經到達第二級如果按照現行的補助辦法就剛剛院長你提到說由市政府送上來之後經過內政部的一個審查然後來按照補助辦法來編列那依照現行的補助辦法是可以達到73%中央對臺中市政府在生活圈道路交通系統的補助計畫的補助範圍"},{"start":10438.672,"end":10455.384,"text":"那尤其這麼高的一個一個一個預算所以才要說在這邊請院長一定要全力的協助那臺中南線我們知道臺中南線捷運南線在100在1月29號已經有行政院來核定總經費1615.14億那這個地方要負擔939.55億高達58%反觀高雄市"},{"start":10465.806,"end":10471.152,"text":"這個捷運黃線總經費1442億那地方負擔608億比例為42%那另外一個小港林園的這個總經費553億那地方負擔220億那負擔比例41%所以"},{"start":10485.589,"end":10485.749,"text":"委員我講一下"},{"start":10505.135,"end":10517.91,"text":"好,我是在這裡說完,因為我們的時間非常有限。你有一個事情沒收到,就是市場部分你沒列在這裡考慮啦。市場部分,對。那另外就是鐵路高架的部分,因為我們雙軌化剛剛我們"},{"start":10521.714,"end":10549.395,"text":"這個陳委員也有提到那行政院1月29日合定的部分是雙軌雙軌的部分是161億長度從苗栗到台中38.3公里但是還有另外一個計畫大台中地區山海線鐵路雙軌高架化建置計畫的可行性研究那有部分是跟海線雙軌化有重疊所以因為台鐵在薩路站勢必要高架和捷運南線共構做一個銜接所以"},{"start":10550.626,"end":10568.788,"text":"目前以交通部112年9月11日的審查意見完成補充修正並於113年2月23日再次提報中央審查所以目前交通部113年3月5日交下鐵道局辦理審查作業"},{"start":10570.749,"end":10586.489,"text":"還有一個更重要的就是我們現在在烏日區的鐵路高架從大慶到烏日新站這個部分已經談了好久烏日大慶高架化他本案是延續107年10月通車的臺中都會區鐵路高架捷運化計畫"},{"start":10587.871,"end":10612.158,"text":"三點七公里他可以縫合一個區域的交通還有鐵道兩邊的一個經濟發展但是現在因為未來營運及產權還有獲益全部都屬中央所以這個部分可不可以請院長我們交通部長也在這邊這個鐵路高架烏日大慶站到烏日鐵路新站這部分可不可以做一個承諾進速的啟動"},{"start":10616.307,"end":10636.98,"text":"各位報告,的確這一次我們有協助台中市政府把所謂三海線分為兩個,第一個就是三線的大清呼日,另外一個是海線的大甲追分,那他們也報告都已經過來,我們初步審查大概大致OK,所以我們最近應該會他修正以後我們會報行政院國會來審查。"},{"start":10638.613,"end":10646.82,"text":"還要報國發會審查那這個要到行政院合定那什麼時候可以合定可不可以給我們一個氣象就是我們雙方會議當然在國發會各個相關單位的意見當然就競訴對加盟部來講競訴這樣好不好"},{"start":10652.79,"end":10654.251,"text":"其實我覺得這是一個給行政院一個洗刷汙名的機會,確實因為像"},{"start":10681.054,"end":10684.736,"text":"對不過剛才講洗刷汙名我不太同意不過我跟委員要報告就是說"},{"start":10706.803,"end":10734.626,"text":"很多的這個建設實際上地方政府是扮演很多的角色。剛才你講的那個中央補助款的部分特別是捷運的部分我們是有這一個所謂的自償的部分要把自償部分拿掉以後再來看中央跟地方的分配而這中央地方的分配每一個都會區都是一樣所以說你剛才講的那個52跟41是不能夠比的啦因為自償比例是不一樣不過不管怎麼樣"},{"start":10735.246,"end":10735.887,"text":"我聽到大家都很緊張"},{"start":10765.546,"end":10780.811,"text":"臺中市是一個正在成長發展的一個城市,人口也繼續的增加,這個增加也非常的快。所以說我們,我剛剛說一個洗刷汙名的機會是因為外界對於行政院會有一個大小眼的批評。"},{"start":10781.531,"end":10807.724,"text":"所以我們今天有這個機會,所以我們就沒有這樣,如果沒有這樣的時候,我們就要趁這個機會,把台中市,把這個都市的發展當中,我們行政院配合的地方,我們來協助地方,讓地方有一個比較好的發展。委員我也要拜託你特意跟大家講一下,那個自償比率要靠條件來比啦,如果不這樣的話,就說我們都沒有種南青種,沒有那個事情。"},{"start":10808.044,"end":10834.773,"text":"我們是聽受台中旗和聽受國用旗都完全受感。這個烏日鐵路大慶到烏日的高加化我已經提了超過10年了啦從當時的一個39億到一直到現在整個經費規模上看百億啦所以這個部分已經拖了那麼久不應該再拖那所以這一次如果說能夠在陳院長"},{"start":10836.148,"end":10859.211,"text":"您的任內然後完成這個審查跟核定我相信我相信這會是一個一個全新的里程碑另外而且我們對於地方的發展建設不分藍綠我們就是要一個陀螺一個橋樑包括整個大眾捷運就是要讓讓每一個人都能夠來使用要帶動地方的發展所以我們不要用那麼多政敵的意願"},{"start":10860.853,"end":10863.618,"text":"我就是沒有在陣地的意願,所以我說中央地方來合作。"},{"start":10866.946,"end":10895.125,"text":"接下來我再跟院長說明我們現在臺中市的高架道路環中路六段這個部分現在是整個環中路唯一沒有高架的部分在五段到七段中間大概1045米的部分那當初因為民眾反對所以在環中路六段的約有600多公尺是平面道路加上銜接閘道部分的工程起點到終點約1045公尺"},{"start":10897.466,"end":10909.613,"text":"現在的狀況就是說車子必須下橋之後再重新上橋,造成用路人的不便以及車速過快所造成當地民眾過馬路的時候心驚膽跳而且時常發生這些車禍。"},{"start":10911.222,"end":10933.261,"text":"本席在3月19日也邀請了議員、里長及相關的單位包括國土署以及地政局還有在地的這些機關前往會刊。這個地政局建議環中路可以踩全線高架化與光明路形成一個立體化的路口。改善環中路通過新車流"},{"start":10936.183,"end":10959.517,"text":"請問院長是否可以將此計畫納入一百一十一到一百一十六年生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫由中央來補助軍會協助地方完成這個本案的一個建設。像我剛才說的,我們中央地方要合作嘛,在市政府就趕緊把這個"},{"start":10960.718,"end":10980.536,"text":"我們請他盡速的把案件報告給中央,要趕緊上來,要上來的時候,我們請這個內建部的國土署來做相關的評估。如果沒有中央的補助,沒有中央的一個這個合定的話,地方沒有辦法來做這些工程。對,那如果是工程選擇通過,可以。"},{"start":10981.605,"end":10983.566,"text":"謝謝嚴委員寬恒的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第10號六委員先祥質詢"},{"start":11030.703,"end":11039.387,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們的陳院長還有我們工程會主委再請陳院長備詢工程會備詢工程會要委員"},{"start":11046.354,"end":11061.864,"text":"院長好,謝謝院長那其實在我來立法院第一次委員會的算是質詢那在委員會的時候第一個當然第一天是工程委員會那我非常的肯定我們的吳主委他對於我的"},{"start":11062.424,"end":11081.293,"text":"當天的提問都是據實以告。當天的提問就是我們數位身分證的一個議題。吳主委跟我說明說我們經過工程會的協調,當天就是協調之後,內政部要賠給廠商2.8億元。後來經過一些社會的討論,除了當天賠償給廠商的2.8億元,可能還有一些前面已經投入的資本。"},{"start":11088.576,"end":11114.911,"text":"那我想趁今天這個機會來跟院長確認一下在我們的數位身份證上面我不要講賠償啦,賠償這個字眼可能不太好我們在數位身份證上面投資了多少的一個資源在上面呢?這些數字不包括我們的行政人員的資本的人事成本就單純給廠商的錢有沒有這經過社會的討論我們有沒有統計過到底花了多少錢?這個部分實際上"},{"start":11116.525,"end":11124.921,"text":"剛才講的有2.8億以外還有一個4.多億的經費。所以總共加起來大概多少?因為有人說是7億。7億多。"},{"start":11127.484,"end":11151.803,"text":"7億多但是我要跟你講那個4億多的東西實際上它是還是可以我們可以把它當作投資所以總共是7億多那每年大概還要再花6300萬的經費來做維護嘛所以就是拖了一天那我們就大概每天平均大概花20萬的經費來做設備的維護但是實際上它到目前為止還沒有任何的一個成效嘛那當天我也有請我們的吳主委幫忙"},{"start":11152.443,"end":11173.022,"text":"做後續的追蹤那有這樣子的一個結果那行政上面勢必有一些缺失那後續可能會有一些檢討我想確認一下可能這個工程會也不方便我直接介入啦那今天院長在這邊我直接請教院長有關數位身分證缺失的檢討報告我們有沒有辦法來把它提出"},{"start":11173.642,"end":11196.896,"text":"我想這個數位身份證當時在規劃的過程當中因為接受各界的反應所以我們就暫緩然後我們現在也就是說各自的保護要能夠更強化以後才來進行而且呢這些都尊重那有關是會有廣泛討論的嘛那我們可能行政單位會有一些檢討嘛"},{"start":11197.876,"end":11219.529,"text":"那我們是不是後續有會來做相關的檢討跟課程?當然啦,我們會繼續來檢討看看是不是我們什麼時候要開始再來推動等等。那相關的檢討大概多久以內可以做一份報告?那我們需要取得大家的共識。那現在剛才講到個資保護的部分嘛,那大法官事線的時候也說在個資保護的部分我們需要有設立,我還沒有講完。"},{"start":11223.431,"end":11248.844,"text":"設立一個各自保護的相關的機構然後各自保護的委員會我們現在在籌備處完成以後我們對各自的保護很完整以後當然再來討論怎麼樣來推動所以事有先後、事有緩急所以我們是這樣來推進的那有關至少在賠償的部分那後續我們行政院會不會做相關的檢討報告"},{"start":11251.545,"end":11276.545,"text":"這一個部分等到我剛才已經講過這個最重要的這個部分是因為我們還沒有達到共識講會或不會還沒有達到共識會或不會那我們最後要看看這個事情到底要你的檢討報告也可以出來說我覺得我們做得很好我們沒有錯啊我們都尊重就是我只是想要說我們能不能提供一份報告那我們要去要怎麼推動都可以寫在裡面如果要繼續推動要怎麼檢討呢"},{"start":11280.336,"end":11302.893,"text":"所以你就看看說等到了各支保護的機構出來大家對各支保護有那個完整的瞭解然後我們再來看看到底數位身分證要不要推。今天院長在這邊的回答就是針對目前數位身分證執行到這個階段那引發了社會的一些討論我們行政院不用做任何的檢討報告"},{"start":11304.194,"end":11327.085,"text":"我尊重我尊重這就是院長的回答我尊重請政院認為不用做任何的檢討報告是吧對不對不用嘛你們會後續再繼續推嘛我尊重我尊重這個話題就到這邊好謝謝謝謝我們的院長好謝謝院長那接下來接下來的問題我就來提一下地方的建設那到下一頁"},{"start":11328.562,"end":11355.443,"text":"那跟院長報告一下分享一下我們汐止人是非常熱愛大眾運輸工具的那一些背景資料先跟院長報告我們汐止的有幾個火車站3個啦那包括汐克火車站每天的預量大概2萬那排名第15名在台鐵裡面排名第15名汐止火車站也大概2萬排名第17名兩個加起來就是我們汐止的在台鐵裡面就汐止跟汐科加起來的貢獻大概4萬"},{"start":11356.704,"end":11384.218,"text":"那如果加起來的話大概在全國的排名大概會落到第7名也就是在板橋站之後那在新竹站之前也就是說我們汐止人非常的願意響應國家的政策來搭乘這個大眾運輸工具那包括這個圖片是這個南港展覽館捷運站板南線南港展覽館捷運站6號出口的一個每天晚上那邊排隊搭乘的民眾那這裡的民眾除了汐止還有基隆的民眾那都會在這邊接駁"},{"start":11384.958,"end":11411.627,"text":"所以說過去我們汐止的民眾長期以來都有一個訴求是希望說板南線是不是有機會延伸到汐止來那過去在相關的討論中因為台鐵第三軌卡住軌道的關係沒有辦法做延伸這是一些背景資料先跟院長報告那後來基隆捷運推動了之後決定把第三軌的路廊讓出來把它廢掉給基隆捷運來使用那我們汐止人就會不禁想"},{"start":11412.888,"end":11434.924,"text":"現在既然台鐵第三軌可以讓基隆捷運的路廊來使用了那為何不能讓板南線來做一個延伸這是我們汐止人的一個疑惑那所以說在我們公布方案之後舉辦地方的說明會也許多人都提出了相關的建議台鐵局這個鐵道局啦鐵道局在當天的地方說明會後"},{"start":11436.929,"end":11444.884,"text":"也承諾說我們會把這個評估報告就是板南縣延伸汐止的張書安納入到基隆捷運的報告規劃當中"},{"start":11449.748,"end":11475.156,"text":"代表說這個案子是地方可能有更多的一個期待那我認為啦因為基隆捷運的案子是在今年的1月31號的時候合定的嘛行政院合定嘛對不對部長領頭嘛那其實在這麼有爭議的一個建設當中我非常的不解我們其實大家都說在大選過後的內閣叫看守內閣嘛對不對我們看守內閣適合"},{"start":11482.902,"end":11498.835,"text":"問法很奇怪沒有所謂看守內閣這樣的四個字任何的內閣都需要好好的做事做到這個內閣下台為止所以任何時間都要做事沒有看守內閣不做事的這個道理第二個"},{"start":11499.462,"end":11499.642,"text":"我們這邊持開放態度嗎?"},{"start":11527.125,"end":11528.385,"text":"沒有問題阿,我都會去問阿沒有問題阿"},{"start":11557.031,"end":11557.191,"text":"委員我講"},{"start":11580.134,"end":11600.626,"text":"我剛才講過捷運是由地方政府來規劃來推動所以在這個過程當中三個市政府都已經北北基都同意的這個方案然後送過來基隆捷運這樣送過來所以中央來決定那如果是你要改變可以啊那就跟"},{"start":11601.506,"end":11628.505,"text":"臺北市政府、新北市政府還要再去談啊。那你談出來新的看法。你請現在的基隆市政府去跟新北市跟臺北市去談談你們的計畫是什麼啊。再來看啊。所以我們持開放態度嘛對不對。我跟委員提一點啦。比如說你關心了矽子跟矽科。如果南線到張書安站。矽子跟矽科都要在張書安轉城。但是現在搭基隆捷運是直接到南港站。"},{"start":11629.445,"end":11645.699,"text":"到南港站還不是要把南線轉成?我們的目的地又不是南港站當然你看到細科細子這麼多他們全部擠在張書安轉成所以這個應該是過去式的以前就是不演嘛最後我們用金融捷運來cover這個延伸段南線的延伸段"},{"start":11645.899,"end":11667.271,"text":"我覺得要整個基隆來考量不要只為了一個區來考量這樣委員你是代表整個基隆市我們當然可以為基隆來考量啊我從來沒有說反對這個延伸到基隆嘛我們就是部分中間路段的爭議的路線還有沒有討論的空間嗎我是覺得是重疊了真的重疊有沒有討論空間我個人是覺得"},{"start":11668.266,"end":11691.201,"text":"幾乎沒有討論,因為現在基隆捷運已經走這個路線到南港站,你現在從南港要再把它延伸,那不是重疊了嗎?所以說部分的路線,南港到張樹灣站這個部分,我們地方的訴求,部長很清楚嘛,就是用板南線來延伸嘛,那基隆捷運過張樹灣到基隆的部分,"},{"start":11692.242,"end":11702.131,"text":"就繼續推動嘛因為他是跟系統捷運結合嘛沒錯啊這樣你要走回頭路了就是以前臺北市他不願意做這一段後來在我剛剛一開始就跟你們說明過了第三軌嘛對不對"},{"start":11706.147,"end":11721.159,"text":"當初都是用第三個月當理由嗎?沒有,我跟你報告,現在已經中俄國家合訂,現在新北市政府要當主辦單位也要做了喔。你現在再重來就是這個再回到過去了。沒關係,我就是要跟我們院長跟部長來確認,地方政府"},{"start":11724.997,"end":11751.737,"text":"的態度地方政府自己去承擔。我們中央單位對於這樣子的一個合定的計畫還有沒有討論的空間去做調整?有或沒有?我覺得沒有了。因為我路線跟你重疊了啊。我現在是走我的輕軌到南港展覽館。你現在南港展覽館到張刷又變成這個南線的延伸。我是覺得這個...所以汐止人真的很可憐啊。汐止人很可憐。當初西東捷運的時候在規劃的時候"},{"start":11754.118,"end":11770.51,"text":"這個路線拖了很久部長也非常清楚臺北市端對於要不要做有許多的意見案子擱置了導致我們細子人沒有意見的案子因為臺北市的擱置我們整個案子拖到現在才分段來施工結果今天"},{"start":11772.096,"end":11800.299,"text":"一條捷運要經過細子完全不用尊重細子人的意見然後就為了當初某某人的一句話講出來的政策要把它來達成地方的意見完全不採納地方做的地方說明會要你們做的報告裡面錯誤有一堆拿這錯誤的報告來給地方政府不是不是那你要捷運是哪些錯誤我現在就回答你你是指哪些錯誤原方案我們基隆捷運我先請問我們基隆捷運當初設置的目的是什麼"},{"start":11800.979,"end":11804.341,"text":"然後我們在報告裡面寫基隆捷運轉版南線的人次的比例"},{"start":11823.018,"end":11823.618,"text":"不是,不是"},{"start":11852.658,"end":11863.896,"text":"不是這樣,如果當時在以前的市政府他願意把阪南縣延伸可是這件事情拖很久才你談到為什麼侯市長要做這個西東縣"},{"start":11865.575,"end":11886.657,"text":"但是最後沒辦法他覺得這部分還是請交通部來協助所以我們現在這一段一直以來都是台鐵第三軌的原因嘛就一開始先做背景的說明了嘛台鐵第三軌的原因拿掉了之後把南線延伸汐止的最大障礙拿掉了嘛不是這個原因是民生汐止線當時的台北市政府不想做"},{"start":11887.378,"end":11912.831,"text":"那侯市長希望做這個尾段這一段,您了解嗎?那是西東嗎?對,所以現在就這樣,因為你民進黨從頭做到尾,這當然是可行。現在是最後在新北覺得說這一段要必須跟中央基隆捷運結合起來,才有西東線跟基隆捷運兩個整合的這個案子。現在你再回到那邊去,我覺得這個整個都又回到過去了,現在已經"},{"start":11913.66,"end":11913.7,"text":"你這樣我"},{"start":11946.771,"end":11958.626,"text":"老公沒辦法,你這樣會讓你的汐止的選民吼,現在基隆捷運是搭在汐止站、汐科站就直接到南港站南港。你現在以後他們這一些都要搭台鐵到張樹灣站再轉你的那個。"},{"start":11962.57,"end":11965.793,"text":"當時大南港站是因為有高鐵,我再跟各位報告。"},{"start":11991.271,"end":11996.633,"text":"問題是你們的報告就寫說基隆捷運到阪南線的轉乘率只有6.74%每天8580人這是你們寫的啊所以我必須要回過來說一份檢討報告如果說他能夠讓人家幸福"},{"start":12021.567,"end":12038.635,"text":"我們都會尊重但是當地方的民眾提出建議之後我們鐵道局也答應要做了結果後續的報告卻是與我們地方的民眾所了解的事實有許多的很大的一個差異你要拿這一份報告來塞我們汐止民眾的嘴"},{"start":12039.935,"end":12044.717,"text":"你現在回到過去,這一段根本沒有人要做。我們最後把這一段接上來。"},{"start":12061.26,"end":12065.101,"text":"張素安我們的藍色如果說看左邊的箭頭最下面藍色那是阪南線他指到張素安而西東捷運跟基隆捷運"},{"start":12091.496,"end":12094.818,"text":"那位你現在已經進行到施工了"},{"start":12121.011,"end":12145.134,"text":"西東捷運要施工了,誰反對?沒有人反對過啊。欸,西東捷運這一段是基隆捷運的一段。我再講一次,張樹灣到汐止驅工所是哪一段?現在花包了,現在你再回頭講,這個只能二年前要講什麼。所以我要講的是南港展覽館到張樹灣站。這段跟西東捷運完全沒有任何關係啊。我問你喔。"},{"start":12146.567,"end":12173.138,"text":"如果你現在回來就是那表示我的基隆捷運從張樹灣到南港產專要不要做?如果不做我建議再討論那你要去翻案啊那你要跟雙北來談可以啊如果你要這樣的話就是當然可以啊然後如果這樣的話要從可行性開始做延伸這個意思臺北市政府要重新開始做延伸這個要走很多年"},{"start":12174.955,"end":12203.305,"text":"效果差不多阿所以委員你如果堅持你這個想法為了矽脂區的想法矽脂的民意代表當然為矽脂區的民眾講話阿沒錯阿那如果你這樣的方式那就從頭開始從可信心開始嘛那你我就講過你要跟地方政府在推動這個捷運建設的好好去想可以阿誰反對誰就來自己面對矽脂的民眾阿"},{"start":12207.186,"end":12232.917,"text":"委員他們已經決定蓋囉!他們已經決定蓋囉!而且可以蓋下去囉!那你叫他不要蓋嗎?現在設計準備要施工了。那是西東捷運,你一直把西東捷運跟阪南縣延伸兩個混在一起。您知道那個基隆捷運合併中華公園合併環並過你知道嗎?你知道接下來是什麼嗎?就是設計施工。"},{"start":12233.297,"end":12238.741,"text":"我的訴求很簡單整條基隆捷運我不想去影響到基隆市民的權益沒有爭議的路段我們沒有要擋他從張樹灣到基隆這一段"},{"start":12264.044,"end":12290.127,"text":"我們已經合定了,我們就全力的來施作,因為他也可以跟現有的系統線來做整合,就是剛剛兩位一直在提的共購共軌段這邊,完全沒有任何的爭議,完全沒有任何的爭議,我當然也希望全力的來推動。那現在要提的就是南港展覽館,就是南港站到張書翰的部分,重啟板南線延伸的一個評估。"},{"start":12292.091,"end":12312.904,"text":"委員你上次已經有結議了,我們也請台北市去做評估,但是做了以後這一段的基隆結議就不做了,那你這個重新啟動是現在開始,現在開始是什麼意思﹖可行性﹖現在是百年大計,我們不能因為球快,然後設計了一個方案,然後被我們的後代罵死。"},{"start":12313.971,"end":12336.064,"text":"每個方案這樣子做下去了,我們現在的民意代表沒有辦法面對以後矽脂的後代啊。那你現在如果要這樣做,那就就啟動啊。重來了,這樣重來了。你就啟動啊。所以台北就是重來了。你啟動以後你想的。我不是說要或不要,我只是要我們的行政院是不是能夠保持一個開放的態度。"},{"start":12337.906,"end":12365.627,"text":"去針對爭議的路段去重新做一個詳細的報告沒有你現在如果要啟動張樹灣到南港的板南線延伸這個事情就是就影響基隆捷運那影響基隆捷運的時候你就要讓地方政府要來做我說這沒問題我說這沒問題我們會去討論我們會去說服不是市政府講的那好啦我去跟地方政府講的時候地方政府說那你要先去跟行政院講啊每個人都推給別人"},{"start":12367.569,"end":12385.91,"text":"對不對?就是每一個單位每一個行政單位要有自己的態度嘛對不對?那我現在是立法委員我當然是問中央的態度啊地方政府會這樣講就是 甩鍋給中央政府的意思啦我當初在當議員的時候在董事群的時候問當初的 那時候劉河蘭是代理市長"},{"start":12386.451,"end":12401.038,"text":"他也是跟我說持開放態度啊我只要確認各單位都是持各方態度都是持開放的態度那我們就有進步的策劃吧交通部把案子給市政府了市政府到現在都沒有表達意見啊那所以你要去問市政府的意見啊"},{"start":12402.219,"end":12408.107,"text":"市政府表達意見以後再說嗎?市政府表達意見以後再說嗎?我們是這個案子要核定很不容易,因為核定要給經費了,現在你要重來開始"},{"start":12418.519,"end":12444.811,"text":"這是這是重新的就是再回到部分正義的路段從來相關的政治責任我敢提我當然敢擔啊不是不是你你的政策你要問說地方政府同不同意啊如果三個市政府都同意我我只問汐止的居民同不同意哦那不行那汐止居民同意那當然基隆同不同意基隆這邊清北市政府這邊我們來做溝通嘛對不對基隆是這樣他從八讀一票"},{"start":12445.441,"end":12451.509,"text":"就是一車到南港站現在你就是到你這個路線到時候變成一個Y字型的路廊"},{"start":12453.563,"end":12456.565,"text":"自己學交通也知道外資型的路廊在運輸效率上面多差"},{"start":12483.864,"end":12486.829,"text":"我們持開放態度嘛那沒關係地方政府要來溝通我來溝通嘛"},{"start":12487.902,"end":12513.352,"text":"你就是,他們如果要做可行性就重新來,我是覺得看他好,那不能因為這個東西來去卡張書安到基隆的部分嘛,對不對?張書安到基隆的部分沒有爭議的部分,就繼續吧。欸那個,基隆今天也改了,張書安轉變成要轉應站,我要重新站,都動到了,都動到了。我們的評估報告裡面就是用不會動到的方案去評估嘛,部長你自己連評估報告都沒有看過,然後現在來跟我講這些"},{"start":12515.589,"end":12515.909,"text":"好沒關係下一個議題"},{"start":12545.165,"end":12568.963,"text":"院長,這個我想跟你確認一下,我們的旁邊的王國才部長有沒有被調報過?確認本人嗎?去年的王國才是今年的王國才嗎?有一部漫畫叫獵人,裡面有一個角色叫熊狸狐,他變成人的形狀,然後模仿人的樣子,然後講話的樣子都一樣"},{"start":12570.148,"end":12572.45,"text":"現在也是這樣那可不可以部長再重複一遍"},{"start":12601.243,"end":12624.754,"text":"可以再重複講一遍嗎?還是我播一次你再講一遍?我交通部現在以行人路權優先,包括我們的四年四百億的計畫,包括各個條例的修正,現在都朝這方面在進行。好,這個反正就是在任部長那天以行人路權的改革跟交通安全當作最重要的一件事情。這是最重要的一個施政政策,沒錯。"},{"start":12625.794,"end":12652.641,"text":"那你說你會跟這個入權團體並肩作戰好希望他們當你最強的後盾但現在入權團體你也知道我現在要講什麼嗎?違罪不舉發不祭典這件事情您認為符合您說行人入權的改革跟交通安全是您當作最重要的一件事情這句話嗎?我跟你們報告現在我的確是我在這個道安跟民宴中間要起一個平衡點"},{"start":12653.533,"end":12682.23,"text":"市長你們細節也知道路邊停車都困難路邊停車都困難所以他不得不違規停車這件事情是很多聲音都給我了所以我們現在權宜的調整但是我們相關的行人設施包括穿越道包括人行道都繼續在建設所以我是說這個是目前的一個權宜的修法不代表我們行人的建設就是包括我們行政院送來立法院的版本包括"},{"start":12684.063,"end":12688.149,"text":"道路沒有改善以前就有可能啊"},{"start":12699.135,"end":12723.292,"text":"所以我們送來的法案所以挺能行到這件事情在院長的眼裡看起來是稀鬆平常的事情是不是?所以我們會送兩個法案做兩條法案的理由一個是道路設施的條例交通道設施的條例一個就是相關的這個祭典的條例這兩個任何人在執政的時候都一定要考慮到"},{"start":12724.753,"end":12724.913,"text":"只是不記點。"},{"start":12742.613,"end":12746.738,"text":"你要搞清楚就是說這是造法不計點。而且評調的結果72%的人贊成這樣的講法。贊成我們現在的做法。"},{"start":12757.089,"end":12777.715,"text":"事實上你打電話那個地方的偷掉車就偷走了你知道嗎?現在只是說民眾檢舉這個患難我們是希望說在違罪裡面讓這個民眾檢舉這個降低一點再到可是並不是不滑喔你看他你車連行到你打警察指把指把強度降低就是變相鼓勵沒有強度沒有強度降低啊"},{"start":12778.175,"end":12797.721,"text":"沒有降低?還包括去年交通部給警政署的這個可以勸導的原則還包括我們現在停在人行道民眾檢舉都沒辦法檢舉了。不能檢舉不代表不划你可以打給那個警察局或是你們那個看專線是多少1999還知道來就馬上拖掉了是"},{"start":12799.449,"end":12799.93,"text":"我要再拜託部長"},{"start":12814.517,"end":12835.166,"text":"可不可以一起跟我一起摸著良心,把您上次說過的話再說一次。我不用說話,我剛才已經說過了。可不可以在這邊再宣誓一次,院長願不願意再把當天跟大眾承諾的話再宣誓一次。沒關係宣誓更容易,院長願不願意宣誓上次在入權團體活動舉辦講的話。"},{"start":12841.289,"end":12845.971,"text":"謝謝廖委員先詳的質詢。也謝謝陳院長的備詢。辦委員會上午的質詢到此為止。下午2點30分繼續進行交通組織質詢。現在休息。謝謝。"},{"start":21611.567,"end":21613.131,"text":"報告約會現在繼續開會進行交通組織質詢我們請吳委員齊鳴質詢"},{"start":21650.01,"end":21655.396,"text":"主席請我們行政院長陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢委員好首先恭喜院長我們台灣的股市已經來到兩萬多點這證明我們院長所帶領的行政團隊是穩健向前"},{"start":21672.932,"end":21688.318,"text":"然後我們高科技產業向台積電的亮眼帶動我們整個經濟的發展我們台灣半導體的AI產業未來是指日可待那近期台積電也確定在嘉義設廠未來配合屏東、高雄、台南"},{"start":21688.818,"end":21716.945,"text":"的科技園區成為南部的AI廊道已經逐漸的成形。那本市在選舉期間也特別提過我們土城三峽未來要發展AI產業廊道。而我們土城三峽這個過程也受到我們當初的賴清德總統他的認同。那土城三峽這幾年在本市以我中央的努力下我們的交通基礎建設發展得非常快速。"},{"start":21717.665,"end":21744.912,"text":"像除了便利的捷運,我們有山陰線、阪南線、萬大線還有土城交流道以及我們院長動工的京城交流道現在都開始在施作。未來我們更有六五的延伸快速道路加上土城工業區的基礎以及我們科技產業也在土城發展。土城山峽有相當多的土地的空間可以來做推動。"},{"start":21745.452,"end":21775.282,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":21775.342,"end":21775.782,"text":"好,非常感謝,感謝議員"},{"start":21802.002,"end":21810.159,"text":"委員長,土層這個地方我們有一個施法延期有84公頃目前正在動工當中屬於"},{"start":21812.128,"end":21812.288,"text":"國有土地"},{"start":21836.664,"end":21839.425,"text":"我想要形成一個生態共榮生活圈"},{"start":21860.451,"end":21886.327,"text":"這讓它變成一個都市發展的典範我想這也是一個很好的構想那使得整個的產業有一個很好的聚落我想這也是一個很有遠見的看法對,因為我們一些高科技廠商他們都知道只要是土地的取得有困難那要是我們這個國有地我們去把它推動讓高科技產業進駐土城跟三峽這個地方然後造就我們這邊的"},{"start":21887.995,"end":21909.411,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":21909.804,"end":21930.538,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":21930.818,"end":21948.878,"text":"整個溝通協調的工作還不夠落實因為疫情期間大家都停板那是不是本席現在又是內政的召委我本席要來提案來延長兩年那看院長你的看法如何"},{"start":21949.261,"end":21964.819,"text":"好,按照法律上來講的話,我們是應該在114年的10月30號就要公告國土功能的分區作為目標。現在還沒修法前,當然我們要這樣做。但是就像委員所講的,因為碰到了疫情,我們都沒什麼辦法。"},{"start":21966.06,"end":21984.951,"text":"結果目前能夠提到內政部的就只有三個縣市就是連江縣、金門縣跟花蓮縣那其他的縣市理論上講起來應該在6月底以前陸續提出但是民眾也有很多的陳情案所以委員如果提出了這樣的一個"},{"start":21986.383,"end":21987.184,"text":"您的建議我們原則尊重"},{"start":22005.165,"end":22025.436,"text":"好感謝感謝我們院長的承諾因為這才不會造成民怨因為我們一個好的政策我們還是要跟地方大家做溝通才來推動這大家有個反衝擊謝謝院長然後再來我就好院長不然你先回座好了我要請我們交通部長"},{"start":22030.283,"end":22052.115,"text":"委員好部長部長剛才我跟院長報告就是我們六五的延伸在這邊我要特別的感謝我們部長還有我們的公共工程會我們的無主委因為我到那邊開會開了五六次總算有有個定案那我也知道我們現在整個"},{"start":22053.475,"end":22078.348,"text":"上網可行性評估的作業已經在做了那4月份也要做結標的動作那65的未來性65的急迫性因為大家都知道65在部長你上個會期會引落土城三峽為優先路段那整個現在整個推動的情形請部長來做說明"},{"start":22080.106,"end":22108.79,"text":"是,各位報告,這個計畫很謝謝委員的提案。那我們在行政院的桃州苗大溪谷計畫,把它列入一個重要的交通骨幹。就是從板橋尾端一直會到龍潭,整個會把它做一個延伸。那目前這一個在應該是1、5年底會完成評估,然後後續因為它已經拉入這個大溪谷計畫,基本上就是桃州方面來推動。就剛才談到"},{"start":22109.551,"end":22109.571,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":22124.015,"end":22124.675,"text":"部長,因為你看其實國道3號會塞車"},{"start":22139.315,"end":22166.822,"text":"都是因為短程的車流量像我跟吳主委他都對新北市對以前在臺北縣他有幹過幾張當過副市長他非常清楚因為都是短程的車輛尤其現在三峽臺北大學城的人口成長速度多快兩年前4萬多人現在已經6萬多人那整個車流量都一定都爆增那再加上"},{"start":22167.882,"end":22180.427,"text":"三峽臺北大學城新北市又規劃麥子岩重劃區還有我們的大干岩的重劃區那未來整個人口的暴增那現在樹林交流道"},{"start":22182.17,"end":22209.224,"text":"有空你到那邊看一下上下班絕對大賽車所以你這65是一個非常非常急迫性所以部長不管有什麼困難一定要去排除我們這個速度絕對都不能延宕是他的確有跟委員兩個功能現在就是三峽英哥這個交流道和樹林交流道甚至到這個土城的交流道都會賽所以這個除了這個科技狼帶的這個"},{"start":22211.107,"end":22240.644,"text":"北部跟這個桃園跟新北這個串聯以外另外一個就是國道3號的替代道路這一次我知道委員當時就是以這樣的這個想法來這個提出的他身兼這兩個功能那當然從通警的功能來講在這個這個三峽英歌道土城這一段是過去的瓶頸剛才委員提到那但是我跟委員因為我們現在其可行性是一直到龍潭那當然可以的話都同時完工"},{"start":22241.571,"end":22268.809,"text":"如果真的有什麼是不是要以這個三峽、英哥、土城這個優先我們就在這個可信評估裡面再做一個分析因為我看我們土城、三峽這邊優先路段先去規劃不然你說到桃園、大溪這邊的經費又非常的龐大那供給絕對會延宕那我們是先考慮不然你也可以解決我們英哥這邊的車流量三峽的車流量還有樹林的車流量"},{"start":22269.83,"end":22271.631,"text":"這是一個非常急迫性"},{"start":22288.191,"end":22305.193,"text":"我再來就是我們土城萬大協議縣萬大協議縣在107年我跟吳秉瑞、蘇巧慧我們三位到當初的行政院長爭取了萬大縣555億但是現在大家都知道在這幾年飆也飆不出去"},{"start":22306.574,"end":22318.924,"text":"切工、切料還有整個費用一定要提升那現在我們整個費用已經要調整到770億那部長那現在這個金額有沒有到位"},{"start":22319.594,"end":22344.809,"text":"是,現在是這樣,因為除了萬大綜合的這個第二期以外,比如說臺北市,還有包括高雄市、台中,他們的經費都有增加。那目前大概在跟我們這個財主大會做一個討論,就是說哪一些是純粹是延誤料上漲的,哪一些是地方政府他本身要負責的,比如說當時沒有規劃好。"},{"start":22345.709,"end":22366.132,"text":"所以我們現在會有一個這樣通盤的這個修改計畫的原則出來那我們現在這個原則大致有了所以我們現在這個也請他們按照這個原則去分析比較220億裡面哪一些是純粹這個因為物價上漲所導致的那目前正在進行中"},{"start":22367.298,"end":22384.55,"text":"因為這一定要快,你的整個財務計畫的修正,因為你現在已經樹林那邊已經開始在施作,那你土層這邊來停擺,那你中間卡在這邊,那這是一個非常嚴重的急迫性。是,我們會趕快來對這個修正經費趕快來做一個審查,趕快來處理。"},{"start":22391.482,"end":22404.398,"text":"好,這一定要趕快,因為現在已經飆出去了嘛,12月1號已經飆出去了嘛。然後你整個經費的方面還是要加快啊。然後再來"},{"start":22407.182,"end":22432.135,"text":"就是我們三峽三峽當初在我們交通部觀光局列入一個經典的城市那我們都知道三峽這邊我們的整個三峽河的整治也都完成了然後長湖橋的改建現在也發報在做了但是整個老街整個這個地方的範圍裡面就沒有一個停車場"},{"start":22433.075,"end":22460.649,"text":"那還好我在國安署在那個我們三峽國光街那邊還提拨了做一個平面的停車場但是還不符使用因為我們在長湖橋的旁邊一定要建造一個停車場立體停車場那我上會期也要求我們部長部長你會引路只要新北市願意把整個計畫排列在前面"},{"start":22461.79,"end":22482.957,"text":"我們交通部這邊原則上我們的前瞻雖然還有剩餘的部分你會全力來補助那現在我新北市已經溝通好了新北市跟我們的議員跟新北市溝通將整個排列在前面那未來這個停車場是不是如我們上個會期部長你所引落的我們來推動"},{"start":22483.976,"end":22502.305,"text":"是,我們現在在等4月份會做一個總檢討,的確過去260億裡面在一開始新北市政府並沒有把這個放在優先,現在它直接放在優先,但是因為我們錢用完,現在剩剩餘款,剩餘款就是有的花報不出去的限制放棄的。"},{"start":22503.513,"end":22518.183,"text":"那這部分就是到4月底5月初會有一個總的檢討那我也知道新北已經跟委員一樣把它放在前面所以我們就看我們捷運款的狀況來支持那萬一捷運款沒有了怎麼辦"},{"start":22520.269,"end":22541.791,"text":"這個看有沒有下一期阿,這個我們可能內部再討論看有沒有,比如說部長這不能說有下一期阿,我新北市答應人家你排列在前面,我們部長引諾了,總不能跳票阿不是,現在這樣,因為我們現在第一期是200億嘛,第二期60億嘛,那現在有260億在這個去年都分配完了,全部分配完了"},{"start":22542.375,"end":22564.581,"text":"所以我上次答應這個委員是說我們剩一款有的時候把你放在優先嘛那現在這個原則不變但是我要確定4月底會出有沒有結一款現在是這樣4月底就可以出到了嗎4月底會出對大概我們已經請各地方比如說發報部出去的趕快計畫退回等等的現在還不知道金會剩多少"},{"start":22574.589,"end":22583.194,"text":"謝謝吳委員親密。謝謝我們交通部的備詢。接下來我們請登記第12號吳委員配議質詢。謝謝主席。我請行政院院長。再請行政院陳院長備詢。"},{"start":22604.833,"end":22627.62,"text":"委員長好 院長我們是民意代表所以說實際上我們社區倘若有旅遊我們都會在早晨的時候到遊覽車出發之前來上車來跟民眾來打招呼問候那所以說我們看到高雄發生這一起遊覽車的事故的事件造成了一死15傷其實真的是感到相當的憂心"},{"start":22628.2,"end":22644.25,"text":"而且我們知道說其實在這個點煉花的事故之後2017年其實我們交通部已經針對我們的遊覽車客運業整體的管理安全有做出了一些改革的措施所以我想要先請問有關於這個事故發生之後因為報載媒體報導說2022年我們交通部的裁罰的件數針對超時駕駛就是我們現在看到在實務上最嚴重的問題"},{"start":22656.797,"end":22669.848,"text":"針對超時駕駛,我們2022年裁罰件數一年只罰了5件,有這麼少嗎?是,官委報告,疊弄案事件以後我們做一個很重要的事情,全國的遊覽車全部都監控。"},{"start":22672.253,"end":22692.439,"text":"所以他們就裝了GPS然後在我們這個樹林有一個中心所以我們可以看他路線還有包括駕駛他開車移動的時間那我們現在是這樣就是從我們的軌跡圖裡面去如果看到這個可能的這個超時如果你談是超時的部分就會去查核查核確實就會這個來採訪"},{"start":22696.363,"end":22698.164,"text":"議員2022年比較少,我看會不會和疫情有關係,也可能有啦。"},{"start":22720.577,"end":22734.304,"text":"我們交通部有裁罰,我們勞動部也有進行勞檢,有針對超時駕駛。我希望我們的聯合稽查也好,我們的裁罰也好,都是希望能夠預防意外。"},{"start":22735.004,"end":22739.025,"text":"委員的這個建議很好謝謝你關心這個所有的安全接下來我也要部長先請回我同時要請速發部"},{"start":22770.197,"end":22783.555,"text":"院長這是在2019年的時候我們國防部的國防安全研究院有一篇的研究來對我們提出一個警示也就是說我們必須要來去預防中國有可能來破壞臺灣的海底電纜"},{"start":22785.678,"end":22801.717,"text":"然後他延續有可能會造成的問題就是我們的通訊我們被斷網我們有可能會被切斷與對外的聯繫那事實上這也不是一個未來式2023年去年光是2月在一週以內就發生了兩次就是我們的臺馬電纜"},{"start":22804.363,"end":22828.379,"text":"關掉一次是因為中國的漁船把他拖斷第二次是貨船來源不明但是一樣造成我們電纜的破損在這個事件之後我們的國防研究院週報提出了三點的結論第一個是中國有可能持續運用類似的手段來破壞我國的網路韌性"},{"start":22829.139,"end":22848.198,"text":"第二點,我們必須要去建立備援機制來強化我們通訊的網路韌性。第三點,臺灣我們必須要接近烏克蘭來發展低軌衛星。所以我今天想要請問院長,我們臺灣對於預防中國來破壞我們的海底纜線,我們有沒有在做因應的對策?"},{"start":22849.298,"end":22877.116,"text":"對於海底纜線的這一個部分我們確實是有在進行怎麼樣加強它的韌性包括搶修的時間要快然後要有備援的這一個基礎那在這裡我們也會設置相關的保護所等等這是有關於這一個海纜的部分那中華電信也請海委會來加強這一個第一海纜的這一個巡迴的這一個保護那這個部分我們"},{"start":22880.704,"end":22903.517,"text":"所謂的這個備援通訊其中一部分重要的是低軌衛星那我看了我們行政院有提出太空三期計劃那甚至蔡英文總統去年還說三期計劃必須要加碼我們要加碼來投入400億來投入我們低軌衛星的研製甚至我們台灣要破壞我們自己的國家發射場"},{"start":22904.557,"end":22932.456,"text":"我們這幾年也完成了立法成立了國家太空中心所以我想請問院長針對太空三期計畫的加碼我們目前規劃完成了嗎?對,我們在這一個部分呢我們會積極來進行那這一個部分數位部比較有關係請數位部先來說明謝謝委員確實如同委員所說的就是我想非同步衛星包含已經在運作的中軌道衛星這個我們包含在馬祖以及"},{"start":22932.756,"end":22950.401,"text":"﹚"},{"start":22952.102,"end":22974.961,"text":"我們除了在努力要自治之外,我們也要進行跟國際的合作,對不對?目前我們數位部有沒有已經跟哪些國家來進行洽談了?我想除了剛剛講到的SES是盧森堡跟法國的之外,我自己去年也有到英國。那因為OneWeb這家公司比較特別,英國的政府對它是有所謂黃金股,就是有控制權的。"},{"start":22975.661,"end":23003.082,"text":"所以在我跟英國討論之後他們也很願意盡快的在供應鏈上面或者是在他自然的水準上面跟我們一起來測試沒有錯因為我們不能把雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡所以我們要去除這個風險就是你們講的我們必須要多元並且一直的這個網路通訊所以我們現在除了自製在努力當中這個700個接收站我們預計什麼時候可以完成對我們年底就可以完成那目前要分布在哪裡目前國科會在"},{"start":23003.422,"end":23017.69,"text":"在年底我們就會完成起來的接收站。其中因為最近我們立法院的委員非常的關心太平島的安全。但我想安全不是去用看的就有安全了。我們有沒有預計要在太平島來連接我們的通訊衛星?"},{"start":23018.53,"end":23038.522,"text":"有,剛才我有提到說我們中軌衛星已經在測試那至於說提供給就是太平島上面的五個國人來使用目前以我所知是大概4月的時候他們會來做調度頻寬一旦調度好就可以提供使用院長,我們看到美國跨黨派的議員才在上一週就提出一個法案要求美國太空總署也就是NASA"},{"start":23038.882,"end":23038.902,"text":"好。"},{"start":23055.778,"end":23069.814,"text":"那我也要提醒速發部我認為低軌衛星的發展不只對台灣現在這全球在冷戰之後新一波的太空進逐台灣我們沒有落後我們正在努力投入當中但是我認為速發部的這些說明其實不夠"},{"start":23070.555,"end":23070.895,"text":"謝謝委員接下來請交通部"},{"start":23097.11,"end":23121.009,"text":"院長同樣是在去年您有到萬華東元國小我們跟加納站的共購來視察萬大縣一起的工程當時我也在場那當時我們台北市市長蔣文安有特別來拜託院長就是因為我們都知道公共工程這幾年公共工程的經費上漲所以原定我們是751的預算那台北市我們政府計算了一下發現需要增加100億那當時蔣文安市長就提出來了"},{"start":23123.951,"end":23123.991,"text":"總體而言"},{"start":23138.968,"end":23162.494,"text":"希望我們中央能夠再增加補助427億的預算來協助我們興建台北市的軌道建設那雖然我跟我們市長是不同的黨派但是我是台北市的立法委員我必須要為我們台北市民來請命所以這個部分我是希望我們中央能不能夠持續的來支持台北市繼續來完成我們的軌道建設"},{"start":23163.314,"end":23192.337,"text":"我們會跟地方政府再來檢討,如果是屬於不可抗力的因素所造成的話,我們一定會請相關的部門來全力支持。我請部長簡單的說一下。因為不可抗力就是說物價啦,這個原物料的營業物價上漲這部分是不可抗力。那其他比如說他當時設計自己疏忽掉的,這個就要請他們來處理。目前用這個原則在...那個計畫送進來了沒有?"},{"start":23192.857,"end":23218.509,"text":"他送進來我們請他再做一些比較細的解釋我們還在審核這部分我們就朝向要支持公共工程的部分來支持好不好那因為我看這個民間很多坊間在說好像我們中央只是補助南部不補助北部該做的事情我們就要做我也去看了一下我們台北市過去中央支持我們台北市軌道建設的預算"},{"start":23219.79,"end":23247.291,"text":"加總起來從我們初期的捷運網絡到後面的環鑽、新義松山線等等總共我們中央是補助了6,775億這個是基礎的公共建設所以公共建設我們是不分黨派、不分藍綠、不分南北只要有這個需求就希望中央可以持續的來支持謝謝委員幫我們做了很好的統計講到臺北市的軌道建設很重要的一個地方、地標就是我們的臺北車站"},{"start":23249.172,"end":23277.678,"text":"臺北車站是我們首都的入口甚至是我們臺灣國家的門戶那在臺北車站的周遭呢我們臺北市正在進行的是西區門戶計畫其中呢我們中央我們交通部轄下的臺鐵跟中華的郵政也在我們西區門戶計畫裡面是一個重要的角色那我在關注的是雙子星雙子星在2019年的時候一度呢臺北市政府是想要交給南海控股"},{"start":23278.098,"end":23305.99,"text":"但是雙子星畢竟為在我們國門要地牽涉到了六鐵共構所以當時有送到我們投審會來審查嘛。審審會最後是否決了這個南海控股那當時呢包括我們台北市的前市長柯文哲還有現在桃園市的市長張善政都提出抱怨啊認為說中央是在卡案但是我要說的是好險投審會有如實的審查"},{"start":23307.083,"end":23327.839,"text":"為什麼當時投審會沒有給南海控股通過呢?院長我想最主要是因為他是這個中國控股的公司嘛他是中資嘛去年的時候呢南海控股被中國國營企業來沒收所以我說海水退了才知道誰沒有穿褲子還好投審會當年有如實依法來審查否則現在在我們的國門要塞我們雙子星"},{"start":23334.304,"end":23361.2,"text":"就會是中國的國企來進行開發這後果是不堪設想我們是六鐵共共下面也有我們高鐵也有我們台鐵所以在這邊我也是要提醒我們行政院我知道在推動政策的時候時常要遇到帶風向時常要遇到政治的攻擊但是我要拜託你們我們所有都是人在公門你們不是為哪一個政黨服務也不是為民進黨在捍衛是對的事情我們理直就要氣壯"},{"start":23362.321,"end":23377.821,"text":"因為這個是法律要求我們的法定責任該做的事情我們就要認真去做我們就堅持去做不想把它說明清楚院長我們可不可以努力來做到我同意而且謝謝你們你的鼓勵我們行政團隊一定會按照這樣的精神來做"},{"start":23379.042,"end":23407.255,"text":"院長那最後呢我是要拜託你因為我知道你也是我們臺北市中正區的居民嘛我相信你跟我一樣是期待我們臺北車站應該要是一個能夠去符合國際的標準跟國際的品質世界級的車站臺北車站呢臺北車站是我們台鐵寄出人數最多的一站也是世界評比裡面人潮前25大的車站但是呢我真的時常的在我們車站裡面看到很多的國際旅客"},{"start":23408.476,"end":23427.353,"text":"站在我們的地圖站在我們的指標前面停留非常久的時間現在我們很多來自於日本來自於韓國的旅客他們討論了很久臺北車站因為標示的不清楚儼然已經是一座迷宮了你們到YT的網站上面去搜尋影片"},{"start":23427.893,"end":23455.187,"text":"很多的這個外國的網紅YouTuber都在拍攝說在臺北車站裡面實在太容易去迷路了那我要講的是他其實的根本的問題是在於在臺北車站裡面我們有台鐵體系我們有高鐵體系我們有北捷體系歸臺北市政府管的我們現在還有基捷桃園市政府管在這個裡面有太多跨系統的單位光是我們的這個路標啊標示的指引"},{"start":23456.067,"end":23471.622,"text":"同樣一個中文的詞就有很多不同英文呈現的方式同樣一個地圖我們有不同方位的視角對於旅客來說這真的是是儼然是一座迷宮所以這雖然是一件小事但是也是一件大事"},{"start":23472.102,"end":23497.635,"text":"因為我覺得這牽涉到的就是我們中央跟地方如何去找到一個合作的機制。就我所知臺北車站目前我們臺鐵跟高鐵以及其他的單位就防災我們有一個跨單位的協作平台我是能夠拜託院長拜託部長我們重新來盤整臺北車站不只是站體裡面的也包括站體周遭的行人安全"},{"start":23498.015,"end":23498.716,"text":"謝謝吳委員配意的質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來"},{"start":23524.417,"end":23528.18,"text":"我們請登記第13號,由號委員質詢。謝謝院長,有請行政院長。再請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":23554.62,"end":23579.122,"text":"院長午安本席想要就教一下院長就是說在目前我們看到許多的新聞都是民生的新聞那民生同樣的也影響到交通各種的成本那在去年的時候那記得年度的代表字你還記得是什麼字嗎我不太記得沒關係去年的話是缺"},{"start":23579.946,"end":23581.127,"text":"不一定啦。"},{"start":23603.888,"end":23625.863,"text":"因為我們在電價調漲的過程當中我一再強調的是我們以很細緻的方式來調漲我舉一個例子來看像民生用電在這個700度以下的那就是有將近1300萬戶的人只漲5%那5%的意思是什麼呢就是平均一天是七毛錢然後一個月是漲"},{"start":23626.343,"end":23628.464,"text":"所以就叫院長所以你認為這個漲的部分的話其他的名聲的相關的都不會再漲?所以說就不會調了嗎?"},{"start":23656.298,"end":23664.361,"text":"還是會調吧?什麼東西?電價還是會調上嗎?我直接跟您問其實這個電價的調漲啊它帶動許多民生的一些物價的上漲這是一定的這是大家可以預期的"},{"start":23674.745,"end":23690.019,"text":"所以說今年的話從一開始的話店家開始調漲之後我們可以預期今年的話大致上就是炒算一個漲字啦但是這個漲字來講的話不管結果怎麼樣大家要去迎迎要去面對所以就算今年的代表制是漲但是大家還是要嚴正以下來去面對你認不認同"},{"start":23691.767,"end":23714.565,"text":"我想我個人不認為漲勢一定會啦因為按照這個中央銀行的這個估計我們今年的CPI的成長的情況會比去年的2.49要來的低很多啦所以個人的見解不一樣我尊重委員的見解但是會不會漲直接告訴院長好了就是說"},{"start":23715.345,"end":23731.072,"text":"那個帶動的漲其實就是不斷的那西門町有一家水煎包店你看一個水煎包目前來講你預計在西門町帶一個水煎包大概多少錢我很少到西門町去但是我了解有人吃水煎包是28塊錢也有人吃12塊錢的"},{"start":23732.433,"end":23733.914,"text":"市長可以來幫您說明一下市場機制那是不是要調漲?"},{"start":23760.413,"end":23789.065,"text":"目前是高鐵啦,高鐵他提到要漲那高鐵的便當現在一個多少以及預計要調到多少他好像增加10塊錢所以現在一個多少110塊的便當所以說其實我坦白說以民生來講這個整個都會連著一起帶動那我接著就叫好就是說像目前來講這整個帶動的調漲的話未來在所謂的台鐵的票價也會調漲是吧"},{"start":23790.643,"end":23816.868,"text":"台鐵是這樣子委員你可能比我還清楚台鐵29年沒有調這個票價最主要的原因他也是有他的政策的任務而且要讓大家能夠有很好的通勤的便捷性但是台鐵我們剛才講過已經變成一個民營化的一個公司那我們會尊重這個民營化公司自己對於票價的調整當然他票價要調整的時候還要報到這個"},{"start":23820.669,"end":23840.756,"text":"這個匯率委員會來審議那我們也會來看看他是否有必要性但是呢為了要讓這一個大家通學通勤能夠得到很好的保障中央政府這邊一定會繼續在推動TPAS那這個TPAS的1200塊是不會漲的所以在大家在做通學通勤所需要的這一個大眾運輸費用不會漲"},{"start":23843.305,"end":23869.392,"text":"因為TPS的部分他會進行一些補貼那我清楚那台鐵的部分因為我跟院長說啊這個漲會不會成為今年的年度關鍵字啊其實取決也是在於行政院那如何能夠穩定物價穩定物價穩定的好那今年漲就不會是關鍵字代表字那如果穩定的不好那今年漲就是代表字沒有錯吧"},{"start":23869.912,"end":23872.093,"text":"所以說國家的角色,中央政府的角色他就扮演中央就是穩定物價。"},{"start":23894.304,"end":23907.068,"text":"院長我直接接著請教因為部長也在您的旁邊因為這個調漲的部分影響公共運輸的交通成本那在於公車以及計程車以及油價那這三類的話會不會調漲?"},{"start":23910.355,"end":23931.755,"text":"剛才已經講過公車的話,如果它是買TPAS的時候呢,那是不會調漲的吧?那這個油價的部分,到目前為止,我們並沒有調漲的這個,它有一個浮動的匯率,你也知道這個油價,我們有一直有在做相關的這樣的漲價,那計程車的部分目前?"},{"start":23935.979,"end":23939.92,"text":"所以我想大家都很清楚,當調整電費的時候,那燃油的這一些交通工具基本上沒有漲價的基礎。"},{"start":23955.146,"end":23973.485,"text":"那我這樣子講好了就是本席在這裡也希望院長跟部長因為在這個所謂的民生的這個物價上漲的時候公共因為今天是交通組的質詢那公共交通運輸的成本那希望就是行政院這邊跟交通部能夠確保該所提的這幾個"},{"start":23974.446,"end":23980.127,"text":"我在這裡也要呼籲就是說呼籲民眾盡可能的使用這個TPAS這樣的一個系統那這樣子的話在使用大眾運輸工具的時候呢就不會受到這個影響這我知道"},{"start":24003.768,"end":24015.173,"text":"但是我同樣的要問一下因為像目前來講穩定物價的小組是多久開始會?穩定物價小組是由我們行政院的副院長來召開相關的會議"},{"start":24019.134,"end":24045.809,"text":"所以說是一個月召開一次嗎?原本三個月改為一個月召開一次。我想問一下為什麼民眾對於這個穩定物價是沒有信心的原因是目前來講連他的會議紀錄在網路上面公布的還在去年12月就連新聞稿也還是停留在1月那如果像是這樣子的一個進度這樣子一個討論如何能夠讓民眾他們對於穩定物價是有信心的"},{"start":24046.669,"end":24068.416,"text":"這一個相關的新聞稿還有網頁的部分我可以去了解一下再跟委員做報告那接著就是在這個目前來講我記得院長你上任的時候曾經做了一個第一個的重大措施你覺得是什麼政策當時有一個紓困特別條例"},{"start":24069.349,"end":24092.22,"text":"你指的是這個嗎?是,我指的是那時候超收稅收,超徵稅收3800億嘛。對啊,那時候有進行的一個現金券的部分嘛。對,就是委員是這樣子。那我想問一下。那時候易厚特別條例,完了以後就易厚特別預算,那裡面就有這個普華現金6000億。易厚特別條例的這個部分我知道。"},{"start":24097.001,"end":24106.704,"text":"政府如果要普發現金的時候,就要看稅入稅出的盈餘有多少。在前前一年的時候,我們稅入稅出的盈餘高達到將近5000億。"},{"start":24109.765,"end":24135.802,"text":"我們在扣掉這個政府的應該要還的這個借債的這個部分我們還有3800億的剩餘所以我們有能力那今年呢稅率稅出盈餘大概在2800多那2800多再扣掉5%要來還債所以呢剩下來的部分大概只剩下1000到1500億左右那沒有能力因為我們花一次6000元的話就要有1440億的經費"},{"start":24138.564,"end":24163.859,"text":"我本席是建議啊,因為去年的時候發的時間點是敏感,因為去年的話是選舉年嘛,所以說跟選舉沒有關係,但是我坦白講,因為今天來講在疫情的話他這種景氣循環以及包括他這個陳述來講,他其實還是需要持續的來去做這些刺激市場的一個措施啊。"},{"start":24164.4,"end":24176.928,"text":"那所以說在今年你剛才講的目前需要花費的這個金額跟剛才超增之後扣掉來的金額其實是可以打平的情況之下那你們今年就不打算來去進行"},{"start":24178.293,"end":24204.866,"text":"我想我剛才已經講過因為今年的稅入稅出盈餘大概在2760億再扣掉1200億的這一個還債的情形剩下1500億我們最主要的目標就是來讓臺電能夠得到補貼要不的話電價就會像你講的一樣漲得更厲害那當然這個物價就更不能夠控制所以這個補貼這個臺電很重要第二個很重要的情形就是勞保我想您也很知道這個勞保現在的這個"},{"start":24206.907,"end":24230.882,"text":"也需要政府補貼的部分相當的大那如果這樣兩個合在一起可能1500億就已經用完了沒關係老保跟那個國庫撥補的事我趁午未完的時候會再跟您就教那我就接著問我們地方的建設那一樣是有請部長那其實今天來講我們不僅是代表著南投的鄉親還來進行這個質詢還反映我們的意見"},{"start":24235.858,"end":24250.548,"text":"在這個所謂的終結來南投的這個議題那我想請教一下院長在你上任到現在1年多將近2年的時間那你有到過南投會判或考察幾次?"},{"start":24257.333,"end":24276.467,"text":"總結的議題是這樣子,捷運在我們的分工上來說是由地方政府來提出相關的計畫,然後送到中央來審議,中央會按照他的非自償的部分再給補助,所以這個終結捷運的延伸到南投我想"},{"start":24277.708,"end":24305.84,"text":"台中市政府跟南農縣政府呢?今天在閻寬恆委員他也有提出終結的部分那所以在呼籲閻寬恆委員所提那目前來講我記得蔡英文她在8年前她其實就開出這個政見那在4年前她同樣在提那在上一次賴清德她來南投中興青春的時候她也再次提出這個問題那本席也知道說我們看這資料"},{"start":24307.22,"end":24329.889,"text":"過去許多蔡總統他提的部分沒有兌現的有很多那我就不一列舉那我直接就叫院長終結的部分有沒有辦法做一個宣示終結的部分我剛才講的很清楚捷運的發展是由地方政府提出來我們也很希望這個地方政府盡快的提出來他的這個構想"},{"start":24331.49,"end":24346.359,"text":"我剛才講過提出這個構想當然要跟南投縣來溝通跟委員來溝通一樣所以我們也很盼望如果覺得終結延伸到南投有必要請台中市政府趕快提出計畫我們會加速審查"},{"start":24347.779,"end":24373.941,"text":"那我相信計畫送過去也希望那個院長到時候是全力的支持終結到南投,可以嗎?如果計畫審查可行,這個委員我跟您報告一下,這個計畫來的時候首先呢就是地方政府做可行性評估,可行性評估以後才有參與。那所以說你就承諾說可以的話全力支持就好。那當然如果可行性評估過,好,當然就支持。"},{"start":24375.061,"end":24396.906,"text":"這個計畫地方政府扮演很重要的角色。舉個例子,像南線就是拖了幾段...我只要注定院長你願意全力支持終結到南投就可以,沒有問題。地方政府要提出計畫?地方政府一定提出啦,這一定提出啦。沒有啊,上次台中南線...我等要講事實,講事實。院長,那我覺得剩下一點時間,我要問您,"},{"start":24403.227,"end":24422.074,"text":"國道6號要打通南投花蓮,這案你支持不支持?這一個案子實際上我們有做過相關的評估,它的經費相當的可觀。但是這個是非參議。但是還沒有講完,這裡面還有兩個很重要的關鍵,第一個就是地質的穩定性,第二個就是生態環境的保護。"},{"start":24422.814,"end":24448.772,"text":"那在所以呢在做相關的評估以後我們才能夠去看說好可行了那未來要做這個環境影響評估完了要做投資效益所以剛才我要跟你講說一步一步來的對我知道但是這一個案子在技術上部長是可行的嘛那個現在我們在啟動一個地質地貿的調查在115會有結果那時候才知道說剛才院長所提的那些環境敏感地帶"},{"start":24449.372,"end":24472.401,"text":"但是是能夠技術上可行的話,院長也不會正向支持此案。這個是一個假設語氣啦。那如果假設的話。謝謝油化委員質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第14號兵委員倩怡發言。"},{"start":24494.806,"end":24520.982,"text":"委員長好。有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。林委員委員長好。我們這一週已經算是第二次見面了,如果您有印象的話。那麼我覺得我們在這一週有兩次見面。我印象很深刻,你上次講划船的那個事情。是的。非常印象深刻。謝謝您還記得帆船這件事。所以你也知道本席在2月1號,"},{"start":24521.442,"end":24546.34,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":24546.4,"end":24562.811,"text":"好,那所以因為這樣的機緣我想跟院長分享一件事。那不知道院長有沒有聽過一條路叫做聖雅各之路?很多人說朝聖之路。好,那院長是不是要跟我們分享您所了解的聖雅各之路?"},{"start":24563.211,"end":24577.763,"text":"我沒有去過不過我很多朋友去讓我很心動不過我覺得這確實是一個很重要的發展觀光而且也是發展宗教還有修養人性心靈很好的一個路"},{"start":24579.161,"end":24591.748,"text":"謝謝院長那本席在過去幾年走過聖雅各之路那台灣其實有很多人現在也都在走這條路那越來越多的人往這個地方去朝聖那簡單來講就是在"},{"start":24595.269,"end":24614.567,"text":"1987年聖雅各支路已經被列為聯合國兩條很重要的這個所謂的宗教朝聖路線那當然這幾年不是只有宗教的人去走而是有很多帶著文化帶著性靈帶著這個宗教還有健身運動各項動機都有那甚至本期在這條路上也碰到了許多不同宗教的人"},{"start":24615.128,"end":24631.954,"text":"﹗"},{"start":24632.074,"end":24655.182,"text":"本席的一個禮物而且也是神給孩子未來的一個使命所以在這邊跟院長分享幾張有關於聖雅各路的這個圖片那院長可能可以在這裡面看到聖雅各路的一個標誌還有聖雅各路的我們到了終點的這個教堂那甚至本席還走到"},{"start":24656.783,"end":24658.724,"text":"本席在這邊跟這個院長的分享是如果我們看下一張這個"},{"start":24684.994,"end":24685.254,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":24698.396,"end":24720.49,"text":"和古法有一些這個騎乘羅旅馬的這樣子的一個方式那還有本席會開始學帆船也是因為聖雅各路的啟發然後最終讓本席在這個路程上真的實際所碰到的是坐輪椅的人那真的很多人因此而完成了他們的夢想"},{"start":24721.544,"end":24743.575,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":24745.187,"end":24761.943,"text":"我領受到了在這條路上雖然很多辛苦但是我不敢害怕最後只剩下信心那在2017年因為我第一條路走成功了就走了900公里所以在那之後不僅心靈跟身體都受到了洗滌"},{"start":24763.664,"end":24763.804,"text":"神的啟示"},{"start":24779.881,"end":24807.688,"text":"是的,所以2018年呢那我真的感受到與神同行的恩賜那一年我覺得我得到了祝福的力量那2019年就是更特別了我在2019年底走到了聖地牙哥接下來2020年就疫情了那一趟路我真的覺得好特別就是不知道為什麼一直往前衝不知道到底是要衝向天堂還是後面有什麼東西在追那果真還好我沒有被疫情追到那我就已經回國了感謝"},{"start":24808.508,"end":24830.406,"text":"所以從2018年一直到2023年除了疫情那兩年我都在西班牙的某一個地方某兩個地方當志工一直到去年那我希望我今年也能夠去所以呢我其實很想跟院長交流一下有關於聖亞各路這樣一個概念"},{"start":24830.913,"end":24851.544,"text":"﹚臺灣﹚"},{"start":24851.704,"end":24864.716,"text":"您得來人何來人來之後其實有好多的傳教士不管是天主教或基督教在我們的偏鄉在我們的部落在山海很難去的地方他們為我們開拓了"},{"start":24867.173,"end":24886.13,"text":"一條公益之路,那所以我發現呢,不只一條,好多條啦,對,不僅是這樣齁,好多條,那本席列的是本席有走過的。好,所以本席就這樣子走走走,那在這個長步道上齁,還包括那個善國喜書記主教跟星雲大師之路,這是很特別的一條路。"},{"start":24886.97,"end":24905.333,"text":"本席就發現了一些其實是可以再成就讓這些路網能夠更好的一個方式比如說本席在2020年走了塔塔加到山海駿那我發現這個從玉山到鄭文溪的出海口的這條路那走到了這個茶山跟中埔的台山線"},{"start":24906.38,"end":24920.568,"text":"那不知道那個院長知不知道最近因為開放重機有很多重機也在山上走所以這個沒有動力的這樣子的一個概念呢其實對於行人跟腳踏車都有很大的困難所以呢本期時候這條路的發現"},{"start":24921.408,"end":24949.275,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":24949.395,"end":24965.947,"text":"那所以一直到了這個走了善國喜主席主教的跟星雲大士這條路之後呢我就有很多感觸其實常常你沒有辦法從頭到尾徒步的很完整那這個是人的步道那接下來我們再來看看在2月16號"},{"start":24970.874,"end":24974.178,"text":"您要請交通部備詢嗎?請交通部備詢部長也來聽一下"},{"start":24986.314,"end":25015.594,"text":"那我就印下了那個交通部很有誠意的投入了很多錢要建制跟升級腳踏車步道那部長你們也很高興的在這個出發的地點那以前我們在行政單位每次要騎腳踏車都很高興從出發的地點大家都沒有什麼困難但是困難我們大概都碰不到只有真正在走的人會碰到所以本期也很希望有機會能夠聽聽這個次長祖密還有署長齊的心得那最重要的是這裡面有一句話說齊智行車不用太累"},{"start":25016.254,"end":25017.535,"text":"本席就很習慣在台灣走來走去跟騎來騎去,所以呢台灣真的其實很美麗嗎?"},{"start":25046.189,"end":25047.609,"text":"本席曾經在2022年去挑戰了100公里。"},{"start":25072.455,"end":25091.402,"text":"那當然還有200公里的那本席的那個100公里在那個兩座山之間就您可以看到這是在畫面上是本席那本席基本上都騎在車道不是自行車道您也可以看到自行車道的路幅我如果騎上去一定是被壓扁或者是基本上沒辦法騎"},{"start":25092.342,"end":25116.492,"text":"所以這些雖然我們現在建制自行車道然後有些單位在建設步道但事實上我們的長步道是連不起來的自行車道也沒有辦法環島的這是本席真正的經驗所以我們可以再來看看這個本席在今年的過年的時候又去檢視了一下日常公路跟我們的海岸線那我們可以看到這種腳踏車的路幅是可以通過的嗎"},{"start":25118.237,"end":25141.659,"text":"另外我們再看下一張,腳踏車還是騎在車子前面,因為那些陸服腳踏車也沒辦法騎,那人更沒辦法走。所以要完成我的聖雅各路福爾摩沙線我覺得是有蠻大的困難,我們可能要這個建制可能可以更人性化,然後更為這個弱勢者,我們所謂的弱勢就是"},{"start":25142.159,"end":25162.729,"text":"行人小於自行車自行車又小於許多的動力大小車所以呢那還有另外一個危險就是部落阿嬤的部落的安全吼那我們可以看到許多這個部落阿嬤的這個賓士車吼常常是跟那個很大的車在部落裡面這個跑得很快的車常常都是一起共行的"},{"start":25163.089,"end":25191.39,"text":"那非常的危險那尤其是在花蓮玉里高寮那邊的金針山那條小路有很多的阿嬤賓士車結果那個每一次大家要衝上金針山的時候都是非常快速的那有的時候或許這個交通部可以考慮一下許多部落其實是很值得人去走跟腳踏車去騎但是在裡面如何顧慮到部落的安全那而且部落裡面有一些很有趣的這個設計好像多良部落它裡面就有苦路14處"},{"start":25192.851,"end":25210.837,"text":"每一次我經過公路都看到好多車子停在那邊在看太平洋的美景。但是呢,如果他們能夠進入到部落看這苦路是四處部落所演展出來的這樣一個創意,我想大家會對台灣的風景有另外一種思考。"},{"start":25211.772,"end":25240.552,"text":"我同意所以是不是可以在這邊請命我們是不是可以重新檢討整個環島路線那我有幾個這個對不起還有這個徒步環島這個有個youtuber說了這個徒步環島屠殺的徒那真的自己要特別小心自己的安全那所以在台灣的用路對於人跟自行車是不太友善的所以呢這個台灣的道路是人的一場生存遊戲每次出門"},{"start":25243.215,"end":25266.67,"text":"我們現在努力的方向就是在做好這個腳踏車全省的全國的腳踏車道環島的腳踏車道還有行人道的這個改善那這個需要中央跟地方政府一起來努力做那我曉得有些地方政府很認真打拼我們會真的像委員所說的我們好好來檢視然後好好來改善"},{"start":25267.95,"end":25293.821,"text":"我這邊幾項建議我們是不是第一可以確認部落村落公路之人的人車共用或分道那這個部分還蠻專業的或許這個交通部可以找不同層次的人來做一個討論什麼叫做在自然界的人車分道那並計算動力車跟徒步的路幅雖然有的時候看起來有路有劃線但是事實上我們真的沒辦法走"},{"start":25294.662,"end":25321.327,"text":"第二個部分是建制聯通全島的長步道那長步道的定義就像我們走聖雅各路一樣所以我們能夠走得平安那基本上還是有一些設計上的這個網絡是需要思考的那另外建制長步道的支援系統就像我剛才講的那我們如果想要在這個求道的路上能夠真正感受到雨神交通的這個心靈層面那我們真的希望安全上可以讓我們少一點顧慮"},{"start":25322.347,"end":25345.453,"text":"另外建置部落內外道路安全的系統所以部落裡面尤其是東海岸還有這個中央山脈等山脈裡面的部落也請這個交通部這邊可以幫我們多了解然後多做一些討論然後再來建置然後最後規劃並建置大自然間的人車分道也就是人可以走什麼道然後車應該走什麼道"},{"start":25347.602,"end":25357.496,"text":"那這一點我相信應該如果做得到的話那臺灣就會成為一個更偉大的國家因為尊重弱勢就是一個偉大國家的展現"},{"start":25360.237,"end":25388.209,"text":"事實上您談的我們有兩個計畫,就是剛才談到的第一個是環島自行車的這個計畫,這從109已經開始做。然後就剛才談到的盡量讓它有獨立的這個自行車道來做。那第二個是我們現在在包括省道,事實上你在左右都省道的人行道不夠。所以我們公路局現在用永續提升行人計畫140億,現在在這個省道裡面這個人可能比較會走的地方優先來做。"},{"start":25388.729,"end":25390.669,"text":"神說我就是真理道路生命請讓我們無後顧之憂的行走"},{"start":25417.331,"end":25424.216,"text":"謝謝林委員的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第15位葉委員原資質詢。再請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":25447.212,"end":25463.864,"text":"院長好今天早上賴清德副總統去參觀我們的無人機國家隊看到我們有一個無人機他是可以搭載這個輕用的比較小型的飛彈但是他的螺旋槳的馬達看到是Made in China那院長知道這事嗎"},{"start":25464.584,"end":25485.164,"text":"我知道,不過這不用大惊小怪啦,因為他還在測試的過程當中,而且他那一種Propeller,這個螺旋槳,現在都有國產的部分啦。測試的階段,台灣做不出來嗎?這個馬達,台灣做不出來?沒有沒有,可以做出來,但是當時的糖尿不大,所以現在,現在已經做得出來啦。做出來就為什麼要用Made in China?"},{"start":25486.089,"end":25494.059,"text":"但是最早期測試他自己裝的啊,這個沒有什麼,這不值得大家講話啦。 因為這個是無人機裸家隊,沒有說您的態度會這樣,難怪廠商會這樣嘛。以論上來講,我們民進黨政府一直宣傳說中國大陸的東西很可怕,有資安問題,然後再一大堆有的沒的。"},{"start":25504.891,"end":25526.269,"text":"現在我們的馬達居然跟他們買,第一個扶植他們的產業,然後第二個我們也做得出來,為什麼不自己做,為什麼不用自己的。第三,這個網路上已經酸,對啦,這個叫做中國國家無人機啦,好不好,有台灣的東西加上東海南,為什麼會酸是因為你們做好才會被酸啦,因為如果酸你還是這樣的態度,其實這個東西,你的回答其實很簡單,你只要講說我們會要求廠商以後馬達也要用台灣的,其實就好了。"},{"start":25534.655,"end":25560.93,"text":"那你的態度是說無所謂那我百分之百比較緊張未來會出現一連串這個狀況就是我們的軍用的東西都會用到大陸的東西因為都是測試階段那未來就是兩岸一起發展軍事產業了啦好不好那這個是因為網路的話題我跟你問一下來接下來我來問一下這個其他大家關心的這個詐騙的議題那有一個名人叫做謝金和"},{"start":25561.79,"end":25587.407,"text":"謝金河他在抱怨他說在他自己的臉書在臉書上或者是在YT什麼都會看到有人冒用他的名字就是說成立投資社然後就騙大家就加入投資社被詐騙嘛因為我看到那個部長也上來部長你已經知道嗎?知道這是什麼?這個右邊這個是我自己看到的所以我看到我的YT葉元之、袁之、袁惠跳在我的YT看到"},{"start":25588.188,"end":25602.016,"text":"那現在我覺得這個事情比較離譜的是謝金河說他自己去跟臉書檢舉或平台檢舉臉書是不理他的那除了謝金河不理他之外我們可以看到謝金河說他有跟打詐小組連線過"},{"start":25603.991,"end":25606.773,"text":"這個打詐小組應該是165 不過回答委員的問題我們現在在推動電子簽章法的修法只要立法院三度通過我們這個法律的依據"},{"start":25620.282,"end":25644.297,"text":"我現在就問你說有沒有跟你聯絡?有沒有跟你聯絡?那個是165那邊,但是我們在推動的時候...沒關係有沒有聯絡嘛,那你回答不出來就叫別人回答嘛,有沒有聯絡嘛。就不能夠看謝金河的廣告。院長,我的問題很簡單,就是說他如果說有跟打詐小組聯絡,但是你們...他說沒有作用,這個這句話是讓我覺得比較訝異的。就是說一般的民眾,包括謝金河都是民間...作用不大。"},{"start":25646.946,"end":25670.818,"text":"作用似乎不大。不要擴大他講的。我跟你講我們是討論事情,因為他是一個名人,他如果都覺得作用...院長等一下,不用緊張,我還沒有開始講。我的意思是說,他是一個名人,然後他去檢舉,第一個平台不理他,第二個他跟打詐小組他說作用不大。"},{"start":25671.178,"end":25696.188,"text":"那一般小老百姓去聯繫打造小組可能打造小組更不會理了那我現在想要問部長我就問唐鳳部長請教一下如果是有人跟速發部反映說他被冒名在網路上做被認為有詐騙的行為被冒名了找速發部速發部能不能幫我們的一般的民眾去跟平台講說你這個是詐騙請你趕快下架能不能做到嗎"},{"start":25697.108,"end":25725.224,"text":"我沒有幫忙165建立一個165往臉書或是Google...他會被理你?他會被理你?通常現在兩個小時之內就會移下來,但是問題是移下來之後他換一個帳號又登上來。所以你跟他講兩個小時他就移掉?對啊。通常是這樣。那為什麼他說作用不大?他所謂的作用不大就是他換個人頭的名字然後又PO一個。你沒有注意進去嗎?我蠻確定的。確定?那所以我第一個我覺得第一個就是說因為過去我們也有我們服務團隊有跟蘇阿布聯繫過是幫一般的民眾"},{"start":25726.549,"end":25748.054,"text":"請蘇巴布去檢舉那當時得到的消息是說他們只能處理民員的部分一般民眾的部分165也會檢舉沒關係你就在這邊宣布就是說以後大家只要看到網路上有冒名投資或什麼請跟蘇巴布或打造小組聯繫兩個小時就會消失就是165這個網站你按檢舉就可以了你就說這個承諾嘛我相信你可以解決很多問題啦"},{"start":25748.954,"end":25776.275,"text":"然後再來就是說我講一下不能夠解決很多問題原因在哪裡就像剛才你剛才沒有注意聽唐鳳部長他講得很清楚他現在下架是這一個號碼帳號下架可是他馬上利用其他的帳號在上來所以你要一個一個檢舉有比沒有好嘛你也要增加他的困難度你不能讓他一個帳號一直在使用嘛那很多人就認為說喔作用不大那我也懶得講了"},{"start":25777.316,"end":25799.891,"text":"現在你就宣誓說只要跟速發部說速發部有這個決心好好去處理那當然大家檢舉也就多了嘛那我覺得詐騙集團也我覺得一定會有作用啦而且我是建議就是說速發部跟我們現在要做啦不是不是我不是講更有效果的方法就是源頭管理都要做啦都要做啦都要做啦都要做啦"},{"start":25804.654,"end":25805.214,"text":"這是去年的時候"},{"start":25826.783,"end":25838.765,"text":"有委員啊,大概,欸這個應該也是系統的問題,就是去年有委員的時候講,如果警察有被,有接受到報案,然後有人被詐騙,他要去凍結那個警視帳戶的時候,都是用傳真的嘛。"},{"start":25839.229,"end":25864.578,"text":"那警察傳真到金融機構會衍生很多問題比如說卡紙啊比如說他傳真因為手寫啊手寫萬一寫錯的話會有別的帳戶被凍結啊或者是這個銀行端收到傳真紙有時候回撥警局找不到人啊很多問題那這個就會錯失打詐的這個第一時間嘛我不知道後來院長這個後來有去解決嗎這是去年5月的時候有委員提出來的"},{"start":25866.36,"end":25895.854,"text":"各位回答一下這個基本上來講是金管會跟內政部我們刑事警察局這邊我們聯繫工作我們打仗基本上是聯防每個部位每個階段都有不同的機關對對對沒問題你如果不知道你就都不知道好不好你不知道嘛因為不是你啦因為你在NCC不是你那院長你知道嗎因為這個東西當時警察一直在抱怨就是說他們用傳真其實時間上也耽擱了有的時候就是傳過去隔了好幾個小時之後那個銀行才收到所以這幾個小時錢就被領走了其實"},{"start":25896.434,"end":25924.095,"text":"蘇建,我不知道說這個改善了沒?這個有沒有改善,是不是這個個案,這個委員我不清楚,但是在去年齁,我們在這個銀行這個主詐的這個部分齁,就主詐的這個金額呢,就到了70幾億的錢。沒有啦,院長我們就是問事啦,我都點問題出來,你都在跟我,你都在做這個政令宣導。我的問題就是說這個問題解決了沒嘛?這問題解決了沒?好沒關係,院長你不知道齁,那我跟你講齁,"},{"start":25924.995,"end":25942.98,"text":"其實現在警政署他們有開發一個系統叫警視帳戶聯防通報制系統這個系統就是說警局以後你們就不要用傳真了你們就輸入那個系統就好了這樣就直接連線了有這個系統我也跟院長講一下在你的院下面的部會有這個系統存在但是我現在要告訴你就是說這個系統也是很爛為什麼"},{"start":25944.54,"end":25958.756,"text":"因為登打系統完之後他系統輸入還是要傳真啊這個是我最新調到他的通報流程嘛還是要傳真所以搞到警察跟金融人員更麻煩更麻煩要做兩次工"},{"start":25959.597,"end":25979.011,"text":"那我覺得今天為什麼會在這個地方提出來?因為唐鳳部長、IT大臣這個這麼厲害的網路神人你應該發揮你的功能幫這些機關做系統好不好不要只弄一些眼前面那些的這是給你的期許,謝謝因為我今天實驗會有限下一頁下一頁下一頁你沒有給他講話的機會不是不是給他"},{"start":25985.256,"end":25988.198,"text":"二類電信我想問一下現在二類電信主委一般是可以跟我們一類電信租到多少門號"},{"start":26010.487,"end":26020.224,"text":"二類電信現在沒有二類電信這個名詞的因為我們電信法落日以後我們現在電信管理法那個MEMO這個部分是採所謂的資源登記的方法"},{"start":26020.765,"end":26048.608,"text":"那志願登記的方法來講的話我們要區分他大概是個人申請還是企業客戶是這樣處理那可以申請多少門號門號基本上來講說比如企業客戶以原則上是以他我們依照我們的質疑以他有多少員工就有這個員工的數字那現在海峽電信一次可以申請幾十萬門號這個狀況已經沒有那是以前發生的事現在我們現在落實KYC這種情況來講現在不會出現海峽電信我是說一次可以跟一夜電信租多少門號一般的企業嘛"},{"start":26049.108,"end":26077.48,"text":"一般性比如說你的企業裡面只有50個人嘛那50個人來講的話原則上來講大概是這樣的門號去處理嘛所以不會再出現如果你要更加更多的情況來講的話這個時候就要落實KYC去處理為什麼需要這麼多我知道我知道但是現在還是有類似的12家電信公司嘛這是在你們網站上看到的不然這些不是第二類電信喔這是你NCC網站欸這個大概112年6月嘛所以後來這12家現在已經沒有了如果沒有有來登記的就變成所謂的MVMO這個業者嘛"},{"start":26078.801,"end":26099.384,"text":"對好那我就針對這幾家業者嘛,所以他們還是可以跟業業電信租門號嘛,可以租到50萬戶。他用企業客戶的名稱可以跟中華電信等等這些租門號。我的問題是這樣,他跟業業電信業者租了50萬門號,然後他再分租出去。那是以前了,現在不能分租。現在不可能50萬門號這種程度。那他能不能分租出去?"},{"start":26100.031,"end":26113.763,"text":"如果說企業客戶來講的話他比如說他可以批有些東西他可以批出去嘛我跟你講一個檢察官現在抱怨東西啊那個主委我認為說你應該去修正一下因為比如說他分出出去1000個門號那1000個門號裡面可能有100個門號已經被舉報為詐騙的門號了對"},{"start":26117.446,"end":26123.292,"text":"那你覺得這個業者他會不會主動說他把剩下900個門號直接停掉?會不會?會不會?你聽他講,聽他講。問題是現在就沒有嘛,你有要求現在就沒有嘛。"},{"start":26136.305,"end":26140.669,"text":"主委主委請教一下今天中天是不是又再次勝訴了對吧沒有那是一個在審的問題而已在審嘛所以在那一審的勝訴了嘛"},{"start":26160.347,"end":26179.2,"text":"主委你一直講說你NCC14次勝訴對吧?然後中天只有兩次勝訴嗎?請問一下14次勝訴是包括很多你裁罰出去中天沒有訴訟部分?那個也算勝訴喔!包括你訴訟!主委什麼叫勝訴?勝訴是說我跟你等一下等一下主委主委等一下主委"},{"start":26184.784,"end":26200.03,"text":"聖訴的意思是說,你如果說我去訴訟了,你跟我打官司,你贏了這叫聖訴嘛。還要說你裁把我,我不去打官司,然後你說你聖訴,那你每一次貼出去的裁決單都是一次聖訴,這太離譜了。"},{"start":26202.131,"end":26227.249,"text":"你們不要用話術實際上實際上你們在打話術不管是有沒有確定在好幾省就是一直連辦而且主委我問你另外一件事情啦我問你另外一件事情啦前兩天是不是有一個鳳凰雲前兩天是不是有一個鳳凰雲你們又敗訴了在那一庭沒有沒有沒有那就是敗審的問題嘛敗訴了嗎你那一庭又敗訴了你不瞭解訴訟程序嘛今天找訴訟成敗就是以確定為準嘛"},{"start":26232.212,"end":26251.823,"text":"那是確定我現在講進行中的我現在講進行中的啦不要再動了啦訴訟費是你出嗎你如果說最後你那一庭你出的話你每一庭都是那一庭出錢啦我跟你請教孟煌雲那個事情你今天早上跟記者講說你跟記者說那個是前朝事你有這樣講嗎"},{"start":26252.523,"end":26255.425,"text":"我不是跟你辯論喔不好意思那個主席"},{"start":26272.719,"end":26277.865,"text":"我沒有在跟他辯論,我已經讓你一直講了,但是我有問問題你再回答好不好?"},{"start":26283.749,"end":26311.189,"text":"放黃雲的部分今天早上記者訪問你你是說那個是前朝事為什麼因為當時我還熱情回答等一下等一下你可以直接講嘛你在反駁嘛那時候你講的是說因為那個東西是前面的規定前面前朝規定那前朝為什麼你要退前朝因為當時所有的委員絕大多數是說不要裁罰可是裁罰了所以記者就問你說怎麼會這樣你說那是前朝決定好前朝決定代表說你也覺得有點理虧所以你才會說是前朝決定"},{"start":26311.849,"end":26322.559,"text":"那請問一下每一次每一庭敗訴之後你有沒有上訴市民的決定是你的決定嘛所以實際上你也認為說鳳凰雲這個事情你如果是你不管是前朝現朝你就是會這樣裁決啊"},{"start":26323.865,"end":26330.766,"text":"政府機關要訴訟要輸很不容易啦你已經確定兩件很不容易啦我跟你講啦主委如果你打詐的決心有跟你關電視台決心那麼強的話台灣詐騙會少很多啦"},{"start":26350.73,"end":26354.511,"text":"謝謝葉委員援資的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第16位,許委員巧心質詢。"},{"start":26387.262,"end":26391.448,"text":"謝謝院長。我想有請我們陳建仁院長。再請陳院長備詢。主委午安。"},{"start":26398.107,"end":26422.29,"text":"首先剛才議員之委員講說這個NCC主委陳耀祥說這個他沒有講陳耀祥說沒有講說是前一任的事情他就在這他剛剛沒有帶iPad上來沒有辦法show給大家看但是我必須說等一下我才會問到這個NCC主委但是你確實有講是前一任的事情核先續名我說前任不是說前場我才剛才講過前一任的事情你有沒有說"},{"start":26423.03,"end":26441.736,"text":"那是前任﹖對啊沒有說是前任的會員﹖所以他說你說的是那是前一任的事情﹖這句話我跟您確認您有講﹖哪一句話﹖您有講這一句話叫做那是前一任的事情﹖對啊前任的這個案是前任做成的決定的﹖我知道了謝謝﹖葉委員問他是前草﹖葉委員晒的錯了﹖我幫你們來這個"},{"start":26444.677,"end":26473.898,"text":"公道一下嘛前一任的事情就前一任的事現在大家知道了好嗎好是前一任那我想今天剛剛那個議員關心的有關這個無人機零件的事情我也很關心就是說呢2023年9月15號的時候這個蔡總統去視察無人機當時我們很開心還跟他報告說呢我們目前軍用的商規非常辛苦做到了100%沒有中國的零件我們覺得是很好的事情啊我們就是自己能做就自己做"},{"start":26474.318,"end":26498.116,"text":"但是呢今天他去的時候出現上面是MIC這個部分剛剛院長你有回答過了但我想請看下一張這個所謂的馬達齁驅動馬達上面呢不只他MIC喔其實你可以看到什麼在大陸的南昌三瑞智能科技股份有限公司製造而且可以查到售價是369塊美金我想問一下喔"},{"start":26498.536,"end":26526.633,"text":"那針對這次賴準總統去參訪那結果呢出糗了請問我們會不會要求這個廠商要做具體的改善這個廠商自己都已經說了啦說因為這是在測試的狀況下他已經裝了在測試而且現在台灣已經可以自己生產了所以不要為這件事情在那邊大驚小怪所以你覺得發現上面有MIC是大驚小怪"},{"start":26527.874,"end":26534.119,"text":"對啊當然這廠商都自己講了他在測試的過程啊現在在這裡問這個人沒意思啦這不是你把你把神聖的民主殿堂拿來做這個網紅的事"},{"start":26544.691,"end":26567.021,"text":"這個跟網紅沒有關係,我沒有提到網紅,這是前一位委員說的,請不要拍到我的頭上。我是要問行政院的態度會不會要求廠商未來在參展的時候也要注意我們所有的樣品上面也不可以是MIC,還是您認為MIC如果是在展覽當中OK,只是你不能做後續的生產,請問是哪一種態度?"},{"start":26568.081,"end":26585.815,"text":"當然我們是盡可能的不要有這個MIC啊。但是在展覽的時候當然我們會讓廠商再提高警覺。我跟委員報告發現這件事情以後很多的廠商不會再使用了啦。很多廠商不會再使用因為已經有國產了。對。"},{"start":26589.278,"end":26619.058,"text":"好,那我們再談一下電價跟民生有關的事情大家都很在乎喔那這一波電價調整平均達到11%那民生的部分漲了之外呢還有包含商用我會漲大家很關心的是啊現在呢如果電價漲了以後物價會不會漲尤其大眾運輸今天要特別跟這個院長來談的是台鐵、高鐵、捷運跟客運請問這四種大眾運輸工具會不會漲價什麼時候拍板"},{"start":26619.538,"end":26619.558,"text":" ﹝國道運輸﹞"},{"start":26644.679,"end":26667.346,"text":"臺鐵現在還在研議過程當中那他們還沒提出來嗎?他們還沒有提出來那我們有確認說大概在什麼時間比如說4月5月6月他們會去做相關的審議會拍板那這是臺鐵公司因為他們現在是公司化他處理事實上在處理啦然後他通過這個董事會以後就送我們的交通費力審議委員會"},{"start":26669.147,"end":26678.115,"text":"所以現在這個時間可能還有一段時間,不是馬上。再來就是高鐵的部分會漲價嗎?高鐵的部分,高鐵也是一個公司。這一個電的成本實際上對他們來說佔比不高。"},{"start":26684.281,"end":26688.424,"text":"接下來我要特別跟你們討論的是有關於捷運因為電費佔捷運的成本非常的高所以台北捷運佔13%"},{"start":26705.234,"end":26732.487,"text":"高雄佔14%你如果連覺得13%佔整個營運成本不高我尊重但是我作為過去臺北市議員臺北市的立委我覺得以電費佔捷運成本13%還有高雄佔14%這對於捷運來說是相當大的壓力所以我想請問如果地方這邊有呼籲說希望中央能夠動漲捷運的電價或者調漲以後給予電價優惠或補助政院這裡會同意嗎態度是什麼"},{"start":26732.987,"end":26759.461,"text":"委員你比我還清楚現在大部分在高雄或者是在臺北大家用那個T-pass那T-pass絕對不會漲價而且T-pass呢一直要到T-pass不會漲價我們知道我們是說單一票價的部分對啊那這T-pass不會漲價的話T-pass占了所有的臺北捷運跟高雄捷運的最大的部分那如果T-pass沒有漲價的時候那為了那個少數沒有用T-pass的人"},{"start":26759.861,"end":26777.827,"text":"那請問一下我們在臺北臺北桃園、高雄這些捷運公司如果說在地方上面它其實不分縣市有捷運的地方政府希望說政府對於他們的捷運電費動漲或補助的部分政院有相關的規劃嗎?"},{"start":26781.428,"end":26795.021,"text":"結運是地方政府管理講對了。但結運的費率呢是由地方政府來決定。那我剛才講過因為大部分搭的都是用TPAS那地方政府有這樣的一個數據他要漲價他沒有那個"},{"start":26796.685,"end":26812.365,"text":"正當性。我知道,我已經知道不漲價了。我是問說我們有沒有規劃對於捷運有相關的電費補貼或是動漲。沒有。OK好清楚了。那接下來我想要回到這個NCC的這個問題。剛才這個主委談到所謂的鳳凰雲的案件。"},{"start":26812.805,"end":26832.018,"text":"您是覺得說呢這個哪有敗訴喔那這個呢好我給你證明一下法律名詞它不是敗訴但是呢它叫做再審原告之訴駁回也就是說你們當時希望申請包含是在意等等的被駁回了我想問一下主委可不可以說明一下你們被駁回的理由是什麼您清楚嗎"},{"start":26843.245,"end":26868.621,"text":"那討論完的結果來講當然後來法院並不支持我們這個認定要採訪的部分就是說這個是涉及說我們的標準我們的認定的方式法院可能他認為他的認定方式應該改善那麼呢你們現在如果有30天有新事證可以申請再議請問目前對本案的態度NCC這裡會申請再議嗎還是接受這一次被駁回的結果再審就是說基本上這法律的部分我們申請再審嗎"},{"start":26869.621,"end":26883.628,"text":"所以我們會在內部溝通一下,那可能應該就不會再提﹖你們要內部溝通多久﹖大家對這個事情很想了解啊﹖我們這麼久才有一次在這裡詢問您的機會﹖如果您都說要再回去討論的話﹖下一次見到你也不知道什麼時候﹖我們是合一致的﹖合一致的問題關"},{"start":26887.37,"end":26890.373,"text":"你講到重點了,你們是合意制可是你諮詢委員會有16個人裡面12個人認為這個新聞沒有違法只有4個人認為有新聞違法的問題決議要發函改進的時候"},{"start":26903.007,"end":26922.204,"text":"你們還是罰人家40萬阿你們不能說有爭議的時候要帶回去討論因為我們是要合一致結果呢你想要罰人家的時候即便上面法院寫得非常的清楚12個委員認為沒有違法也決定發行改進結果沒有造罰如果沒有造罰的話你今天根本不用浪費人民的公帑不斷的去打這個官司來請你說明"},{"start":26929.511,"end":26954.552,"text":"基本上來講這個諮詢會議來講本來它叫做諮詢會議我們在法定程序上外部的委員所討論的這個部分他的意見要不要採納最後還是七個委員要去討論的問題反正我想參考你我覺得跟我的想法一致我就參考然後如果出狀況就是說那是諮詢委員給我們的意見那如果說我覺得你的想法跟我不一樣這只是參考用的我不一定要聽你的意見"},{"start":26954.932,"end":26958.433,"text":"所以您到現在還是認為當時NCC的處理方式16個人裡面有12個諮詢委員認為沒有問題然後他們決定要發函改進就好你們去拔了對方"},{"start":26972.978,"end":26988.428,"text":"從二人的角度來說,不要管到上一任,您覺得當時NCC的處理方式是正確還是錯誤?程序上沒有問題,而是說我們這種案子類型也有只是案子不是很多,但是問題是這次七個人共同討論出來的,這就是我們的決定。"},{"start":26989.028,"end":27014.136,"text":"我,未來審查預算是我們的決定,你們真的浪費太多的...沒有浪費的問題,沒有浪費...不斷的再審,不斷的對一個案子又打又打又打...委員,不斷的針對中天發言的是你們,中天只是一個案子和一家公司,我們監理的公司非常多,不是只有中天一家而已...因為你們亂打官司的也不只針對中天,我只是舉這個個案跟你討論啦,上一任的主委他們編了多少的訴訟費?"},{"start":27017.093,"end":27031.524,"text":"你編了多少的訴訟費?你知道你們增加了非常的多倍嗎?我們的救濟程序有改正過,我們法律以後沒有經過行政院的書院直接訴訟了。來我們接下來請訴發佈"},{"start":27037.048,"end":27050.918,"text":"月長我記得上一次有柯智恩委員問你說覺得速發布這個做得怎樣的時候你問他說股市兩萬點你不開心嗎我個人沒什麼感覺我沒有買股票可是我很在意的是我們編列預算有沒有按照實際的單位數去編列"},{"start":27052.679,"end":27070.227,"text":"那我們一般會想說我們政府部門裡面最常出國的可能會是僑委會可是我們卻比較了述發部跟僑委會的這個出國的項目天數跟出國人數之後發現數位發展部的出國比僑委會還厲害出國總天數述發部329天僑委會295天出國人數也比僑委會多總費用也比他來的多"},{"start":27077.831,"end":27098.568,"text":"再來我們就想進一步的來追查說你們在這個預算的編列到底合不合情理問題可能就會在於福報看下一張投影片我們針對亞洲的部分做了一個整理光是亞洲部分四趟有三趟安排的是商務艙照理來說這也代表說是高階公務人員在出國"},{"start":27099.369,"end":27126.505,"text":"而且這個我們去詳細看之後很多的費用其實有對不起來的情況我們看下一張投影片我們直接把去的同一個國家拿出來比較紅色的是舊金山三個然後藍色是倫敦然後還有綠色是華盛頓你可以看到的是你去同一個國家可是預算編列的標準根本不一樣同一個國家同一個城市每次的平均價格都不同"},{"start":27127.005,"end":27132.09,"text":"當然,因為無論是次長或者司長或者署長出席,他按照我們的這個報紙費用的標準,他是做不同的倉等,所以當然就會有不同的...這都是一樣的商務倉喔,我們都幫你挑過了。"},{"start":27152.008,"end":27156.252,"text":"還有不同的季節,還有不同的季節跟不同的道的地區。"},{"start":27169.924,"end":27198.416,"text":"我們看下一張投影片我們幫你都找出來了以7月8號到11號也就是你們要預計出國的時間來說它的價差可以說是非常的大首爾商務艙我們都講商務艙網路上報價3萬3你們編了9.6萬新加坡網上3萬4你們報的是7萬東京的部分的商務艙的報價也有很大的價差這代表你們當時在預算編列的時候就編的過高了有沒有管理上面的問題"},{"start":27199.416,"end":27222.662,"text":"您挑的這個是沒有辦法改時間沒有辦法退票的那種價格然後跟我們這種可以改時間的來比但是我們實際上用的時候如果有較低的價錢是按照時報時值來使用我都把各種的都查過了啦不是你說的那樣子實際上你們當初估的票價就是比較高我把可以改票的也列進去了還是一樣的狀況不好意思我很貼心的都替你想過了"},{"start":27224.282,"end":27244.438,"text":"還有再來還不只這樣部長您院長您可以看看你們的部長在整個預算編列的時候問題多大下一張投影片一樣我們在3月6號跟3月15號的時候請速發部提供相關的資訊速發部出席這個亞太網路資訊中心的會議要去紐西蘭跟日本可是他根本是在曼谷舉行的"},{"start":27244.858,"end":27263.301,"text":"在2月21日到3月1日就辦完了。訴發部不知道還提供給我們資料說你們要去泰國。結果根本已經辦完了。根本就要說要去日本。完全不一樣的。所以請問為什麼你們會有訴發部連自己要去哪個國家都沒有辦法掌握的情況。"},{"start":27264.509,"end":27266.671,"text":"院長最後一點時間可以說明一下我剛所提到的剛才速發布的這些問題您同意嗎?您覺得合理嗎?"},{"start":27293.853,"end":27297.555,"text":"謝謝徐委員巧心的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第17號陳委員冠廷質詢"},{"start":27342.267,"end":27343.007,"text":"好,請院長。"},{"start":27357.022,"end":27374.684,"text":"今天是很高興用不同的身份在跟院長來對話那過去是行政院政務官的時候那我們把嘉義的很多問題包含我們講到的公糧問題交通議題等等有跟院長反映那也謝謝院長都能夠花時間去聆聽去了解然後去做一些改善"},{"start":27375.245,"end":27388.017,"text":"那特別是今天早上還有今天下午其實我們的吳啓明委員也提到國土計畫的這個部分那其實我們都是一樣我們的想法跟迴響都是一致的我們希望能夠延緩不過"},{"start":27389.485,"end":27410.75,"text":"今天我們準備了幾個跟交通相關的重大議題,想要跟院長來討論,包含民雄航太園區、民雄鐵路高架化、A3纜車還有緊急的救難的通訊等等問題。首先我必須談一下民雄航太園區,今天吳佩儀委員也談到包含低軌衛星的部分,這次也會在我們航太園區裡面來跟大家談一下。"},{"start":27411.63,"end":27425.818,"text":"民雄航太及無人機產業園區,它是現在全世界都在搶著發展的航太產業。那我們嘉義縣公共其盛,那我們現在行政院在民雄規劃了一個民雄航太園區要用來發展航太、軍工、無人機產業。"},{"start":27427.119,"end":27446.326,"text":"我想要請教一下民雄航太園區這個園區是以164線然後劃分為東西兩側那東邊是中科院航太及無人機園區西邊是民雄航太及無人機產業園區那東邊的這一個部分目前是沒有什麼開發的問題那去年12月動土"},{"start":27447.113,"end":27459.607,"text":"那未來要興建的是這個嚴肅大樓還有基礎工程大概是2025年底就能夠完工。現在有問題好像是西邊。院長我想請教一下現在到底是誰來負責開發這個園區是經濟部是縣府是國防部。"},{"start":27467.433,"end":27486.165,"text":"在這一個部分的話我想各部會都有他執事的該做的這個部分那中科院他是做這一個無人機園區的規劃那經濟部廠發署跟這一個嘉義縣政府是協助調查跟招商所以各有各的責任這樣子"},{"start":27486.425,"end":27510.358,"text":"是,那院長因為這個開發的總積費是68億元那應該是會由國發會納入工建計畫那是由,大概是由經濟部那個無人機專案辦公室來去處理可是他有這個經驗來去處理這個將近30公頃的園區嗎我是認為我也建議院長齁如果可以的話這樣的相關的開發工作還是要交給經濟部產業園區的管理局來處理"},{"start":27511.278,"end":27538.5,"text":"因為他下面有大概50個產業園區還有9個科技產業園區所以比較適合這樣的開發工作不知道院長現在是不是可以交辦給經濟部這樣子讓他的整個統整會更快速這一個部分的話我想這一個我們讓中科院跟經濟部我們再來做內部的協商我請那個副院長來做一下協調好不好看怎麼樣能夠把園區發展得更好"},{"start":27538.9,"end":27555.189,"text":"或中科院主責或經濟部的協助,我們討論完再跟委員報告。謝謝院長。特別談到低軌衛星是因為除了中科院部分,那兩個產業園區都有講到航太。"},{"start":27557.005,"end":27558.866,"text":"總統府之前在這個有正式的這個新聞稿都說未來會投入400億"},{"start":27580.862,"end":27602.534,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":27602.967,"end":27612.192,"text":"謝謝院長因為我特別要強調一下就是說因為無人機航太原機我們大家基本上把所有的注意力都放在無人機產業但是其實低軌衛星剛才部長也有提到那包含在我們的一些重要的島嶼像太平島等等都有它的應用的地方"},{"start":27631.181,"end":27645.918,"text":"所以我是希望說現在已經有了這個雅創然後再加上雅創是一個這個做研理的研究的中心那未來生產的中心在民雄那包含低軌衛星他也不是只有這個衛星的這個部分而已還有地面的接收設備等等"},{"start":27646.579,"end":27661.08,"text":"我認為他是可以作為一個群聚的產業包含從民雄開始到太保整個地區太保民雄我們有民雄航太園區我們有台積電進駐其實是一個充滿未來性的產業我希望次世代產業區有一個完整的聚落所以我還是希望說"},{"start":27661.721,"end":27664.362,"text":"我想只要在自然確保無虞的情況下我們都很願意去跟國際的廠商來合作"},{"start":27687.666,"end":27708.642,"text":"委員剛剛問到的就是低軌衛星的接受器目前大概還是要透過一個基地台然後透過5G或Wi-Fi訊號再分享出去但我們也預測未來大概兩年左右慢慢就會有手機或者無人機可以直接連低軌衛星的這個狀況到那個時候我想廠商會變得比較多我們會隨時來評估我們在這邊也是希望透過國會的殿堂來去鼓勵這些產業能夠進駐謝謝院長謝謝部長"},{"start":27711.624,"end":27717.451,"text":"那接下來我們要談民雄的鐵路高架化還有他的車站整體的這個規劃跟高架橋下面的利用"},{"start":27718.67,"end":27742.771,"text":"這部分我們可能要請黃國才部長一起,謝謝。那鐵路高架化這一個部分,其實我們爭取這個高架化是從馬英九前總統時代是否決啦,他到現在經過賴清德、蘇貞昌還有陳建仁院長總算是核定動工,所以還是要代表我們的團隊還有我們嘉義的這些姓名們來表示肯定。"},{"start":27744.053,"end":27744.093,"text":"兩格一結"},{"start":27762.499,"end":27778.986,"text":"這主要的產權還是在台鐵公司,但是都市要變更,要經過地方政府來協助。據我的瞭解這空間的土地全屬應該是鐵路蓋好之前是鐵道局,鐵路蓋好之後就要移交給台鐵公司。"},{"start":27779.506,"end":27807.904,"text":"那正常來說這個高架橋下面的空間大概是給台鐵公司去做處理那現在的問題就是說臺中有類似這樣的問題是因為我們的這個研究室的研究員特別他是台中人他也提到說過去就是把財產點交給台鐵公司但是財產很難登記過去因為台鐵公司不太願意去處理這個部分所以常常會辦就拒絕辦理登記所以這些空間有些時候會變成說下面的空間有的時候就會荒廢甚至用鐵皮圍起來"},{"start":27808.985,"end":27832.688,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":27833.029,"end":27833.589,"text":"的確就是說鐵路的地下"},{"start":27851.84,"end":27851.86,"text":"謝謝,謝謝部長"},{"start":27879.168,"end":27895.694,"text":"接下來我們來談一下民雄戰前的開發還有他的這個日式宿舍群。院長最近這幾年有沒有去日本考察?最近因為我...比較困難因為身份的關係對不對?可能比較困難因為安全因素還有國際的情勢。那請問"},{"start":27897.781,"end":27923.673,"text":"議長過去在日本的車站你的印象是什麼?我還蠻喜歡日本的我以前在當學者的時候常常去那我覺得他這個有關於車站整體的開發做得相當成功不管是大阪也好或者是京都也好或者是神戶也好都做得是很成功所以他們鐵道公司賺的錢是這一些副業賺的錢反而比票價賺得更多"},{"start":27924.193,"end":27937.231,"text":"沒錯,因為日本的鐵道公司他可以利用他們車站的優勢那可能會做商場、做飯店或做出租公寓他變成一個總和營運的公司所以就如同你剛剛說的,像是九州JR的2002年"},{"start":27937.991,"end":27964.434,"text":"22年的總營收是2116億日元但是非鐵道本業的是70%所以說這是我們台鐵公司未來可以努力的方向找出自己的價值那幫國家賺出更多的價值這是很重要的那我們談回這個民雄車站的高價化在這個高價化核定之後鐵道局台鐵公司我想請教一下有沒有跟縣政府來談論整個民雄車站周邊的整體開發計畫"},{"start":27965.895,"end":27985.089,"text":"目前有,目前在做個案編,事實上這很重要,在鐵路高架最重要的點就是車站開發,當然談到日本的例子。目前也是希望在民雄車站包括一些複合商業大樓跟商店等等餐飲,還有一些生活娛樂的空間,目前有這樣的想法。"},{"start":27985.751,"end":28005.984,"text":"那其實整個車站我必須要再強調,因為說如果我們仔細看剛才的這個整個平面圖的話,大家可以知道說在我們未來如果興建站前廣場的話,或者是停等區,可能會遇到一些一些青年朋友來反映就是說他會不會影響到這個舊的民雄分局的宿舍群。"},{"start":28006.644,"end":28028.652,"text":"那這個宿舍群是從日治時代延誘到現在所以現在地方上是有聲音說他們擔心會不會因為這個規劃的話會影響到整個宿舍群的部分我想請問部長有沒有聽到類似這樣子的這種我目前沒有聽到但是過去在台北車站的確也有類似比如說宿舍群的保留跟你新開發什麼融合一體"},{"start":28029.252,"end":28051.39,"text":"我想這部分可以在兩邊再討論一下。謝謝部長,我指出這一點的目的是說,除了不是要讓他被影響之外,他在做整體車站規劃的時候,也能夠考量到舊的地景跟舊的文室。保留變成一部分。對,所以變成說在車站的規劃的時候,你在做整體規劃的時候,在做整個景觀營造的時候,可以納入這個景觀。"},{"start":28052.911,"end":28075.328,"text":"讓他成為一個重要的視覺點所以我們現在很多車站包括嘉義市的車站如果你仔細看嘉義市的車站的話他現在回復成他最古色古香的狀況所以他同時能夠維持他過去的古色古香的狀況之外又能夠把旁邊的這些周遭的景色融在一起那整個民雄鄉對我們嘉義縣第一大鄉來講那就是一個很好的示範地區"},{"start":28076.049,"end":28093.077,"text":"那我還是希望說交通部也好能夠整體開發的時候能夠把這個文化精神來放在裡面這是我們希望能夠做到的接下來想要請教好關於這個這個緊急通難救助的部分那可能這個部分可能要請部長蘇為夫部長在"},{"start":28108.168,"end":28128.654,"text":"其實我們嘉義縣山區有兩個主要的省道一個是台18那是到阿里山森林遊樂區那另外一個是台3可以到大埔鄉但是這兩個省道其實它通訊死角是非常多的譬如說中埔到大埔這個路段2023年1月到8月警方的統計死亡次數是超過60件"},{"start":28130.737,"end":28159.239,"text":"全國到底有類似多少這樣的地方為什麼會特別講到這個地址是因為包含大埔鄉長他帶領我們到整個每一個這個訊號時點的時候他都有強調說這一位鄉親他過去曾在這個地方交通事故那還好第二天下午有人發現所以趕快再送醫所以這樣子已經經過大概7到8個小時甚至10到18個小時所以這個地方的通訊很重要那我們這邊也是肯定任性司所有的任性司都有來去處理這個部分"},{"start":28159.699,"end":28188.698,"text":"那我是希望說未來院長是不是可以除了我們嘉義縣之外除了阿里、山大、帆路、竹崎等等全台灣各個重要的景區的重要的道路一定會有這樣的部分來做一個完整的統整那不管是交通部也好、數位部也好一起來統整一下來去避免這樣子的問題不知道部長跟院長有沒有辦法統合來去處理我想就我們當然可以來盤點然後我們也會跟NCC合作NCC來指定說那些地方應該要優先來加強那我們回來提供經費這個沒有問題"},{"start":28189.779,"end":28191.72,"text":"梅山市區和太平村各辦一個說明會。整體的交通部關於梅山纜車的可行性評估。"},{"start":28208.266,"end":28225.254,"text":"不知道是不是可以提早把它做完因為未來還有綜合規劃影響環境影響評估工程設計所以這個部分想要請教一下部長有沒有辦法盡快把它完成現在阿里山分管處就積極在進行做一些前置的座位那前置座位完可以的話就進入可行性然後再往後來走這樣"},{"start":28226.054,"end":28242.8,"text":"謝謝最後還是要補問一個問題就是關於加一TPAS的部分因為其實有很多鄉親特別在包含各個市議員都有來到我們的辦公室來討論到這個部分其實TPAS在我們加一是399元但是我們只有大林到南進等於是只有6個鄉鎮"},{"start":28243.8,"end":28244.861,"text":"謝謝陳委員冠席的質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢,包括院會。"},{"start":28271.517,"end":28275.321,"text":"現在休息10分鐘,休息之後我們繼續進行質詢。現在休息。"},{"start":28873.748,"end":28875.089,"text":"報告院會現在我們繼續開會。接下來請陳委員停飛質詢。"},{"start":28888.524,"end":28888.744,"text":"陳建仁議員"},{"start":28900.656,"end":28923.146,"text":"我想去討論一下這一次其實當我們在交通規則的部分地方有很多的爭議其實你知道我們現在各類公路並沒有統一的規範然後有所謂的到底誰這個速限然後要怎麼樣去標示的部分並沒有一個統一規範"},{"start":28924.446,"end":28949.866,"text":"也就是說今天國道是高速公路局省道是公路局市道是地方政府縣道是地方政府區道是地方政府鄉道是地方政府但是呢我們發現當我們這一次因為有一個叫如果超過我們最高限速的40公里我們是要吊扣駕照的這是很嚴重的"},{"start":28950.762,"end":28975.54,"text":"可是我們因為事權不統一當我從國道然後直接到了平面道路也就是進入到市道、縣道或是區道的時候我根本不知道到底它的線數是多少然後呢大家都有開過車很可能你從高速公路下來你不知道第一個它的速限"},{"start":28976.761,"end":28989.751,"text":"然後呢可能一採等到你一個月兩個月之後你可能要被吊扣駕照這個是很嚴重而且他的嚴重是會因為這樣子而喪失了他的工作權"},{"start":28992.165,"end":29005.119,"text":"部長,你有沒有聽過這樣的一個陳情?我跟各位報告。第一個,我們全國的不管從國道到地方,我們有一個標誌標線號誌設置規則。那速限的部分一般是我們設計,就是說設計速度的85%以那個來設定。"},{"start":29010.744,"end":29034.111,"text":"現在只有清楚的就是高速公路所以高速公路大家很清楚說我大概110我只要到150這個部分你就一定要被調控可是你在其他呢你在一般的市道、縣道甚至省道也好更不用講到區道或鄉道"},{"start":29035.779,"end":29055.026,"text":"公路局的部分像我們的快速道路也都很清楚80、90省道基本上也清楚那現在很多是在地方因為它面積很廣地方的部分那我們是覺得這個部分在他們的標誌就是限速的標誌不管在地上還是在路旁這個都很明顯這第一個"},{"start":29056.186,"end":29070.607,"text":"是不明顯啊根本因為他就是事權不統一根本沒有一個標準說大概在多大的一個所謂世道跟憲道要多少的憲數所以現在都是各自為政了"},{"start":29071.428,"end":29087.995,"text":"所有的所有開車的人沒有辦法很清楚你沒有很清楚的話你很容易就踩到了那個紅線你踩到了那個紅線你被調扣而影響到就是你未來有可能你的生計問題這是很嚴重"},{"start":29091.649,"end":29108.979,"text":"因為我們沒有做好配套。我跟你講縣市政府的部分的確有的他為了適容所以他放的非常少。而且通常都是在你審到接過來之後。審到接過來之後你看你原本如果70"},{"start":29111.462,"end":29129.054,"text":"70審到70限述70可以到了居到鄉到有可能只剩40曾經還有人說有30的你看這一下來是馬上就面臨了那個臨界所以我們是這麼講這麼建議就是說他是在不知情的狀況不是說我們現在絕對絕對不鼓勵超數也不鼓勵飆車這個絕對不行的"},{"start":29137.119,"end":29148.69,"text":"我們現在是說在沒有任何知情的狀態因為你從省道下來說真的大家不會覺得說怎麼會他的限數是這麼低"},{"start":29150.572,"end":29178.411,"text":"對不對那你從70本來限速70然後下來到一般你是不是踩了就過了過了他在不知情喔不是說我要飆車不是喔也不是說我故意要去競速喔都不是是在不知情狀態之下尤其在交界的地方喔對啊很危險啊是非常非常危險而且沒有標示那你怎麼樣欸如果你下來一看到我馬上再踩"},{"start":29181.523,"end":29206.313,"text":"我想這部分就是說如果兩個的速限差很多在交界地方結果又有測速照相這個本身是比較有問題的我有問題啊部長你講有問題可是問題是問題是這個即使去跟你們陳情都沒有用啊因為他確實標的線數就是這樣那你說確實有問題是你要去改變"},{"start":29207.373,"end":29224.362,"text":"不是說今天在這樣的一個區塊當中讓所有的人現在願生宰到啊。你有沒有聽到這樣的抱怨?事實上這樣,像我們的快速道路也一樣,在走的時候90變80會馬上有一個標示。"},{"start":29227.403,"end":29254.543,"text":"那如果他下了地方以後應該在交接的地方要有個明顯的標誌我想這部分我們該來跟各地方的尤其六都的交通局稍微討論一下要比較明顯的標誌我們利用這一段時間我們收到很多陳情案很多陳情案你知道嗎那個所謂的在不知情狀態之下然後莫名其妙收到單子然後呢就說你被調扣了"},{"start":29256.075,"end":29268.191,"text":"原因是因為你超過限速40,最高限速40公里。可是他說我怎麼會,我怎麼會超過我這麼小心的人,可是沒辦法。"},{"start":29269.119,"end":29283.223,"text":"另外他那個在100跟300公尺就要說前有測速照相這個也要做我想這個是就是要有個標誌說前有測速照相這個如果沒有的話是可以申訴的我們已經把"},{"start":29286.964,"end":29315.476,"text":"所有你們從高速公路局、公路局、地方政府我們去調所有你們對於這所謂連接然後到底事權怎麼統一沒有人知道沒有人知道然後呢就一味的用我們現在這樣子一個所謂的測速照相然後拍到了就到了啊你根本沒有辦法更改"},{"start":29316.291,"end":29331.99,"text":"大致這樣齁,就是說我們一般高速公路大概110嘛,快速到90,地方原則是50啦,大概以這樣,但是那50它可以隨地方有時候變40或怎麼樣或調,基本上大概是,如果你開到47你要注意說這裡是50,要注意這個是。"},{"start":29333.792,"end":29345.93,"text":"沒有重點是現在的問題是在於現在所有的地方政府的狀況是非常亂的就像部長你說的你講的是原則"},{"start":29347.298,"end":29370.94,"text":"可是有些會因為地方的狀況跟需求而有所調整可是這個調整沒有人知道沒有人知道我一直強調的是大家都是在不知情的狀況不是故意要去競速不是故意要去飆速而是在整個不知情而且是正常速度正常速度之下"},{"start":29372.509,"end":29397.617,"text":"然後你今天因為我們已經把它變成有一個壓力在上面所以如果你沒有去處理我們問了所有的單位沒有人知道怎麼辦啊因為事權沒有統一啊然後各個公路單位或是各縣市政府大家都不想躺這個渾水那怎麼辦那所有用路人就比較倒楣"},{"start":29398.987,"end":29426.204,"text":"應該在交接的地方要有一個明顯的標誌。不管是地面或是標誌。所以部長去了解一下就是說你要有一個整體就是說了解到底標準要怎麼定到底我們在整個道路規範當中設施對你要在什麼時候跟人家提醒提醒說這裡限數多少"},{"start":29429.953,"end":29441.97,"text":"你沒有的話你已經讓大家陷入到不知情狀況然後莫名其妙收到單子已經要被調扣了這叫不知情而不是故意去競訴或飆訴"},{"start":29443.746,"end":29465.661,"text":"好,我們來找各地方的交通局來討論一下,在每一個交界,比如說速度變化的交界都要很明顯。甚至是你們也要有一個很大的緩衝,你要緩衝讓大家知道,這很重要,否則你這樣一連接明明我就是這樣順順的開,我哪知道下去他減為30。"},{"start":29468.106,"end":29480.801,"text":"70到30他是不是已經要跑反了對啊要擴排了欸要擴排就是說他也不能說開10公尺就變了那個一定要有一個緩衝嘛所以有一個緩衝我強調你要有緩衝這部分部長多久多久要給我們看"},{"start":29488.406,"end":29506.662,"text":"我會請我們的司理趕快跟各地的交通局檢視一下剛才談到尤其像高快速道路下來以後跟地方的這個交界的這些標誌有沒有清楚那我們來找他們還有在各地方政府他們自己所訂的這些限數你要給他們一個標準"},{"start":29508.644,"end":29532.219,"text":"否則說真的,什麼樣的一個條件要到什麼樣的程度,什麼條件要到什麼程度,我覺得這個也應該要有一個方向。那我們所有的開車的人或是騎車的人才會知道。這個再麻煩齁。那我再給這個我們院長看,院長你有沒有看到,這個連你的照片都會被盜用。很困擾對不對,連院長都會被盜用欸。"},{"start":29535.64,"end":29551.919,"text":"所以你看多嚴重,很嚴重對不對?對,這個詐騙的手法不斷的出城翻新,然後而且越來越精緻,我是覺得在打詐的努力上我們需要加強。"},{"start":29553.22,"end":29578.947,"text":"真的要加強但是在網路當中我們怎麼加強我覺得最近大家都會把這個焦點風頭好像全部擠到數位部上面我覺得我們是要重點是要怎麼樣解決問題才是重要我想問部長就是說電子簽章法其實我有提案就是說電子簽章法的部分你認為現在最大的問題是在哪裡"},{"start":29579.85,"end":29596.412,"text":"是。我們本來的電子簽章法20年前的版本我們並沒有說數位簽章就是國家好像發一個印鑑證明的這樣子的一個簽章具有推定為本人簽名的效力。因為這樣的關係所以像Facebook您剛剛看到的或者是YouTube等等的平台"},{"start":29597.032,"end":29615.578,"text":"結果就是說他並沒有用這種高強度的數位簽章導致說任何人他可以換一個人頭帳號再換一個人頭帳號然後每個人都變成跟名人名字聲音差不多或者甚至同名同姓那但是如果有一個類似硬件章這樣新的數位簽章其實除非他名字剛好跟我一樣不然就不能用我的名義去看廣告"},{"start":29616.314,"end":29633.076,"text":"所以就是用高度管理在電子簽章的部分可是問題是現在電子簽章有一個狀態就是事權的問題事權現在似乎在網路廣告的部分是經濟部在管的吧"},{"start":29633.773,"end":29648.205,"text":"其實本來電子簽商法也是經濟部在本部成立之後我們就變成電子簽商法主管機關那至於您剛剛提到網路廣告平台業我們已經正式跟經濟部發函希望他們設立這個業之後讓我們來當主管機關經濟部已經原則同意了"},{"start":29648.447,"end":29677.27,"text":"原則同意,多久?我覺得這是配套啊,這一定要先做啊。你沒有先做,你變成四權不一的話,你執行也會有問題啊。那好,原則同意,那多久要完成這所謂的整個轉接?有一個預告程序,那經濟部跟我們是說大概兩個月左右。因為法案三讀也需要時間嘛,我們現在是大概差不多的時間,應該是可以上路。所以同步,同步。希望。其實電子簽章法它有一個很重大的"},{"start":29678.01,"end":29693.526,"text":"和阻力也就像部長所說的他是用高強度的你要去做簽章的動作那你這個簽章完之後你當然就會有一個認證那這個認證完我就認你像未來這個院長"},{"start":29694.527,"end":29720.958,"text":"他就不會出現在上面了因為不是他認證的所以這個很重要所以速度一定要快尤其很多的民眾真的不知情我還是要講民眾的不知情就會造成很多的麻煩跟困擾所以在網路的整個所謂詐騙的部分除了廣告其實網路詐騙部長我們到底要怎麼辦除了電子簽商法修訂之後"},{"start":29721.918,"end":29745.297,"text":"還有什麼方式可以有效去管理降低網路詐騙?其實電子想法不只能夠用在網路廣告上面。好比像有所謂的C2C就是個人的賣家的這種電商。那以前當然如果公司行號自己開一個電商你可以知道它設立在哪裡。但是如果是個人的拍賣啊或等等那其實透過數位簽章你也可以要求說這個賣家他必須用真實的姓名"},{"start":29746.097,"end":29746.117,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":29761.786,"end":29777.385,"text":"所以部長電子簽章法完成之後修法完成之後你認為我們就可以有效去嚇阻所有的網路詐騙嗎?就是說特別是在冒充名人或者冒充知名的這種人物或者直播主或者拍賣"},{"start":29777.927,"end":29802.312,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":29815.335,"end":29841.609,"text":"謝謝陳委員停飛的質詢。也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第19號羅委員明財質詢。主席、潘院長、這座列席的處列席官員、各位媒體記者、見證小姐大家好。請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":29850.29,"end":29877.971,"text":"市長你好你好在立法院質詢的這個時間是不是這一次是最後一次見面對應該是好像每個從政為官者都希望多做一點事特別是對台灣對中華民國好的事我們看到疫情結束了以後這個海外"},{"start":29878.837,"end":29903.632,"text":"有很多的國家包括新加坡、日本等等、泰國他們的觀光人潮是一波接一波感覺整個觀光整個景氣都復甦動起來了臺灣現在面對的有很多觀光客不如五年前、不如十年前大概"},{"start":29905.114,"end":29933.533,"text":"觀光客考量的問題大概有兩點第一點就是地緣政治的問題他們說那如果到台灣來會不會覺得很害怕會不會隨時有戰爭如果沒有戰爭為什麼一天到晚在兵推所以本席在這裡要請教一下陳院長那麼現在"},{"start":29934.755,"end":29945.086,"text":"台灣會不會推動獨立?會不會再一次來推動所謂的台灣的獨立公投?"},{"start":29946.338,"end":29971.719,"text":"我想委員剛才講的這個觀光其實我要跟委員做報告去年我們定的觀光的目標是600萬人已經圓滿達成今年我們會把這個目標定在這一個疫前的情況到現在為止實際上從這個東南亞或者是東北亞甚至港澳來的人數其實是不少所以並沒有你所講的就是說什麼"},{"start":29973.561,"end":29973.581,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":29989.594,"end":30015.441,"text":"我想你剛才問的一個好問題我們現在政府的政策就是希望能夠維持現狀那我們也不希望任何的威權國家是來當方面破壞了這一個現狀的狀況那這樣當方面的破壞實際上使得台海不穩定甚至影響了世界的這個繁榮和和平所以這是我們希望這一些威權獨裁國家"},{"start":30016.561,"end":30017.021,"text":"所以院長所以現階段"},{"start":30045.197,"end":30060.081,"text":"會放棄臺獨的推動我們現在的努力就是維持現狀所以就不搞臺獨了我想臺灣本身就已經是一個主權獨立的國家所以就不會再碰這個所謂的臺獨的公投"},{"start":30061.676,"end":30063.797,"text":"我們現在希望維持和平安定的現狀其實不僅是國內大家的一個多數的認同"},{"start":30087.407,"end":30113.205,"text":"甚至很多海外的一些旅客他們也希望說來臺灣度假嘛是一種輕鬆愉快的事情所以希望能多多做宣導這個很重要剛剛本席講到第二個重要的這個因素就是過去啊臺灣啊讓人家印象最深刻的就是Night Market你知道 院長你有沒有去過寧夏夜市"},{"start":30117.781,"end":30143.757,"text":"我好喜歡台灣的夜市很多的外國朋友說台灣這個unique好棒的地方喔那最重要的是台灣的人熱情第二個食材美食哇好多喔最重要最重要一點是便宜但是院長成績何時啊糟糕現在一碗滷肉飯要多少錢"},{"start":30147.475,"end":30176.77,"text":"我很少吃乳酪飯,抱歉。一碗現在起到60幾塊啦,唉呦,我的天啊,更不要說是炸雞啦,或者是知名的台灣珍珠奶茶。我們現在都很害怕擔心就是過去我們覺得很驕傲,來我來來來我帶你去吃啊走啊走啊。昨天啊,一、兩千塊喔,爸又煮,又高興,但是現在大家喔,帶著蛋啦,"},{"start":30177.898,"end":30199.888,"text":"委員啊,怎麼辦啊?聽說電價要飆漲了。院長啊,電價一飆漲啊,漲個10%、11%,萬物起漲,老百姓受不了啊。所以我在前幾天啊,財委會我提了一個案,就是紅標米酒啊,是暫時凍漲。"},{"start":30202.742,"end":30230.521,"text":"但我覺得財政部部長也從善如流所有的委員都支持就決定動場所以本席在這裡請教院長可不可以考量多數民眾這個生活不容易就如同我們的過去韓市長現在的韓院長所說的這個莫忘世上苦人多其實這句話我在每一次質詢我都放在心裡"},{"start":30231.861,"end":30250.736,"text":"這個世界上臺灣百工百業,現在是非常的辛苦,大家的人民都是嗷嗷待哺。所以本席建議院長第一個要做的就是今年紅包每個人拜託拜託一萬塊不要縮水。"},{"start":30251.687,"end":30262.145,"text":"去年大家領到6000塊 不可能有點感謝 不可能今年每個人發一萬塊表表心意雖然是杯水車薪啊"},{"start":30263.073,"end":30284.576,"text":"因為電價10%一漲下去了以後哇全民哭哈哈每個一萬塊要2350億那去年的稅入稅出營餘今年來算是2670億再有5%要房債所以剩下來只有1500億所以你講一萬塊那個是空口說牌話是完全不可行的事情"},{"start":30285.117,"end":30305.271,"text":"而且政府更重要的是這一些剩下來的錢就來補貼電價啊所以我們給台電啊那你不是說電價不能漲漲了以後物價會上漲那為什麼不來補貼電價呢再來勞保不足所以我們為什麼不補貼勞保呢所以這樣子照顧的人是更多所以政府在"},{"start":30306.172,"end":30328.828,"text":"在這一個行政的時候呢,不會隨隨便便的就說我要花多少錢。這是不負責任的做法。所以院長現在是怕錢不夠是不是?對啊,我們稅入稅出的盈餘今年大概2670億左右。在財委會二、三十年齁,你如果缺錢齁,你來找我。我報幾項給你稍微批評。"},{"start":30330.916,"end":30343.502,"text":"我手上的一堆資料有人檢舉他們自己家裡起碼海外有一兆移政稅換言之這個查下去馬上國庫可以多出五千多億"},{"start":30345.029,"end":30362.534,"text":"你如果有興趣的話缺錢的話你來找我我為全民來找錢我還是希望說每一個人還是可以盡量一個人可以發一萬塊的紅包那因為時間的關係如果有需要的話我絕對不會嘗試我把我30幾年的經驗"},{"start":30370.768,"end":30398.834,"text":"包括國有地、閒置地都可以充分拿來利用。把這些最辛苦的民眾放在我們的心頭上。我們能做多少,多多來為他們來排憂解難。因為今天是交通話題。因為今天是交通話題,本席是地方出身,我還是為地方來請命。第一個就是捷運延伸至深坑。"},{"start":30399.898,"end":30412.568,"text":"延伸至時定地方已經喊了十幾年了包括蘇貞昌蘇院長以前當老縣長的時候沒有人反對到現在還是遙遙無期要拜託陳院長是不是給一點"},{"start":30417.995,"end":30442.41,"text":"關懷的力道讓他速度快一點委員你很清楚這個捷運的這樣的一個推動是地方政府的事情所以呢捷運有任何像是深坑輕軌要推動的話那就新北市就要做可行性的研究那新北市政府現在正在辦可行性的研究那可行性研究以後可行的話那我們就會進入了這一個綜合規劃然後來進入這個"},{"start":30445.692,"end":30453.597,"text":"以後的這一些步驟所以這一個部分我們也樂觀其成說新北市有在做這個可行性的研究"},{"start":30455.145,"end":30479.355,"text":"院長會支持嗎?我還沒講完。這個研究的情形,它是在112年5月1號提給交通部。這個提給交通部以後,我們交通部已經報到行政院來。還有一些意見需要新北市政府來做修正。所以我們現在也在等這個新北市政府的"},{"start":30480.476,"end":30503.876,"text":"來提出這一些修正的報告所以新北市政府快一點我們就可以快一點所以這個事情請委員多多敦促一下新北市政府這一次會期我是財委會的召委我馬上最快的時間來召集各部會召開一個協調會也好或者是合作的會議也好"},{"start":30505.798,"end":30532.313,"text":"從早上開始開會沒有結論出來我們就不下班一次到位一次完成你覺得院長可不可以這樣做你開會是要講深坑輕軌的事情嗎深坑輕軌的事情我們把中央跟地方到底問題出在哪裡如果說是缺錢那就找錢的問題嘛我來想辦法嘛我來拜託行政院一起努力來找錢"},{"start":30533.975,"end":30554.436,"text":"那委員你就吹出一下新北市政府趕快交修正報告來。那我就兩邊一起召集會議來吹出。另外一個就是捷運環狀線南環段的部分,現在開始動工了,但是物價飆漲,好多都是流標流標,不曉得這個速度可不可以快一點。"},{"start":30555.417,"end":30574.633,"text":"現在因為臺北市政府現在因為經費不足,他最近有提一個計畫就是北環南環加起來還有包括其他總共要增加700多億的預算那目前我們就行那個我們的審議研究就是說是可不可以規則一地方比如說這個"},{"start":30576.015,"end":30604.514,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":30604.614,"end":30630.899,"text":"因為以前是大選區,汐止也是我的選區同樣一個時間20年喊了半天我們安坑縣在這邊要謝謝相關人員謝謝部長安坑縣輕軌在去年就完工通車了結果到現在喊了20年的前運西東縣現在還是遙遙無期我覺得看了好難過我真的是為汐止人"},{"start":30631.874,"end":30635.517,"text":"另外一個就是有關新店安坑地區安城快速道路以及華城快速道路希望"},{"start":30655.18,"end":30668.86,"text":"這個路就是差一小段安城快速道路因為當地有很多的居民幾萬再加上很多的學校上下班堵車堵得很厲害小小一段5公里"},{"start":30669.687,"end":30688.386,"text":"可是打通了以後卻讓整個地方交通更快速更便捷所以在這裡也要拜託陳院長可以多多與關心經費不多30億我很關心但是新北市政府的關心更重要這個計畫是新北市政府"},{"start":30688.686,"end":30713.944,"text":"要來推動那新北市政府如果不來努力推動不提出計畫我們沒有辦法補助所以請委員還是再推出一下新北市政府加油加油加油好不好那我就來再召開一次那個不斷電的24小時開會把這些事情具體的落實另外一個央北環塊跟國道高架段的這個問題"},{"start":30715.265,"end":30735.501,"text":"因為都市計畫的發展,央北14張未來會多2萬戶,交通勢必會造成很大的困境,所以未雨綢繆拜託這個部分也開始左手動起來開始思考。因為時間的關係我可能有部分會"},{"start":30736.414,"end":30738.115,"text":"謝謝羅偉明、柴子勳、謝謝陳院長的備詢。"},{"start":30766.057,"end":30770.423,"text":"接下來我們請登記第20號賴委員瑞隆質詢。再請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":30786.28,"end":30807.171,"text":"院長好,其實明天也是香港重要的一天,就是說香港離台灣很近,但是香港的整個這一段時間以來的變化,其實台灣高度關注。那最近看到這個香港基本法23條的部分的快速的去修訂,那明天來實施了。那我個人其實"},{"start":30808.857,"end":30826.744,"text":"認為這對香港來說是自由人權上面很沉重的一天。那院長怎麼看待?我其實對香港一直寄予惑望,因為香港算是在亞洲地區很早的一個自由民主法治的一個城市,可是越來越背離了這個道路。"},{"start":30827.344,"end":30827.364,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":30842.978,"end":30843.919,"text":"香港過去的東方明珠這樣的一個叫自由經濟的一個體制"},{"start":30860.558,"end":30860.978,"text":"﹚第11屆第6次會議"},{"start":30876.471,"end":30900.275,"text":"危害國安甚至於境外的干預這個都是很抽象的一些概念過去我們看過中國一個專制的很容易變法對就是說如果這是在一個民主國家當然這些可能大家比較明確一點因為這都要很明確的但是在中國香港現在一國兩制下的時候中國這樣的處理方式我們過去看到不管是從這個李明哲或者是傅查等等案件"},{"start":30901.021,"end":30903.023,"text":"香港這樣的狀況其實會讓大家非常擔憂"},{"start":30922.169,"end":30938.87,"text":"現在很多的訴求所謂的一個中國所謂一國兩制所謂這個九二共識的部分這個臺灣人民還值得相信嗎我向臺灣人民一定要提高警覺而且要以香港為界我們知道如果臺灣沒有自由民主"},{"start":30939.37,"end":30939.59,"text":"﹚發言委員﹚"},{"start":30968.738,"end":30971.775,"text":"這一個區域才會越來越穩定、越和平、越繁榮。"},{"start":30972.706,"end":31001.207,"text":"我們期盼的是不只香港,我們現在中國大陸其實都應該走向自由民主這樣的路線來前進,這個對於整個人權,對於整個長遠的發展,對人民的福祉都是一個穩定的結構,那我認為其實應該都要朝這個方向,但是我認為內部也更應該團結,一次對外,對於威權專制這樣一個體制的時候,其實它有很多的一些意圖說內部應該更團結,朝夕應該更團結來一次對外,我認為才會讓世界各國看到,讓中共看到說台灣在這一塊的一個決心。"},{"start":31006.511,"end":31027.648,"text":"臺灣每年還是有相當多人去到香港,我今天早上也聽到江部長也有提醒去香港必須要很謹慎小心。院長有沒有怎樣的呼籲,如果對臺灣人民從今天開始實施,未來如果到香港去的話有沒有什麼要特別要注意?我想因為臺灣的人民也蠻多要到香港,"},{"start":31028.448,"end":31044.328,"text":"香港基本法23條明天要實施所以我在這裡呼籲臺灣的人民要去香港的時候務必要特別注意到自己的安全那一定要確認以後才去香港我想這一件事情"},{"start":31044.548,"end":31044.568,"text":"當然"},{"start":31073.666,"end":31089.882,"text":"再回到今天交通的主題其實高雄在10年前有邀請小鴨到展出其實香港10年前也有高雄10年前有兩隻都很成功10年後香港也展出了兩隻高雄也再展出了兩隻"},{"start":31090.917,"end":31116.854,"text":"但是就是都是一個很成功的一個展出那對於高雄來說這10年來其實也不只10年很長遠努力其實創造很多的效益10年的時候那時候當然我在擔任新聞局長的時候就在推這件事情其實有很大的效益10年後高雄市政府期盼市長更大力的推動其實效益持續擴大那這個也是中央地方大家共同合作的結果那我想講的是也希望未來包括院長跟部長能夠繼續支持高雄的這些產業的發展當然"},{"start":31118.155,"end":31118.375,"text":"院長去看過小鴨的那個嗎?"},{"start":31146.02,"end":31171.836,"text":"我沒有去高雄想像不過我很多的朋友還有年輕朋友都會到高雄去看音樂會阿等等高雄確實是已經不一樣了脫胎放骨跟我小時候的高雄完全不一樣所以我是以高雄為榮了院長是高雄部長也長期在高雄服務我想都共同為高雄會付出很多那我想高雄的努力需要大家共同支持那接下來我想講的是高雄機場的部分其實去年在這個場地上面半年前阿也跟"},{"start":31173.257,"end":31198.956,"text":"議員：部長也談過就是高雄的國際機場的航班航點恢復的太慢半年前的時候跟院長部長有請求要求是在能夠在這個年底前達到八成的目標那當時的時候部長是跟我說這個會努力來做但是到了今年的上半年的時候到目前為止都還只有73%左右而已那事實上相較於這個桃園的部分我們看一下桃園的"},{"start":31200.397,"end":31207.322,"text":"目前新加坡跟沖繩已經恢復了接下來我們就是日本的那個雜黃跟熊本這是尤其熊本是剛剛施政委員長上半年能不能全數恢復"},{"start":31224.609,"end":31239.449,"text":"我們努力看起來會有點問題但是盡量比如說朝九成我希望院長部長全力來支持這個對於南部的發展很重要不要讓很多南部的鄉親還要到桃園去才能夠做很多的不管是甚至很多"},{"start":31240.529,"end":31241.55,"text":"我們一起來努力那我想"},{"start":31264.33,"end":31290.276,"text":"繼續發展高雄的好的觀光產業讓南部的鄉親有更便利的商務觀光的這些的一些好不好這對南部的發展很重要對南北的平衡也很重要在也把握時間也謝謝院長大力支持然後前鎮漁港這個八十億利潤的院長的大力支持我們看到日本的豐洲市場其實有軌道建設不管從原先的竹地到豐洲你到了做捷運就可以到達這些重要的一個漁市場"},{"start":31290.876,"end":31297.87,"text":"那同樣的前陣漁港在整個立任院長的支持下的時候也花了80億來做整個全面的一些整整"},{"start":31298.649,"end":31327.285,"text":"整治啦齁那他其中還有另外一個重要因素是交通上必須要更加的便利那現在捷運的黃線已經開始在進行也謝謝整個行政院的大力支持那到了前鎮高中站這邊那其實再接兩站就可以進到了前鎮漁港那也希望院長跟部長可行性評估已經其中報告出來去年出來了那可行性評估在今年上半年應該會出來也希望院長跟部長繼續來支持前鎮漁港支持捷運黃線延伸到前鎮漁港"},{"start":31327.665,"end":31353.525,"text":"比照日本的豐洲族立項有一個很便利的一個交通發展讓整個漁港的經濟生活更加速來發展。我們希望高雄市政府趕快提出那個可行性的評估報告。那出來之後的話院長跟部長會全力支持。我覺得很多的重大建設都是百年建設來看其實現在如果做了一些決定就會可惜就像當年高鐵如果有從左營到"},{"start":31354.502,"end":31373.201,"text":"澳洲車站的話那相信對南高雄的發展更便利。臺北就會有山站了那高雄當年的如果有更有遠見去做決策當然那是另外一個這個前朝的時代做的啦但我們就不變但是我是說國家重大建設要更有前瞻性不要未來30年50年後來發現說當年這個決策如果做的話恐怕會對"},{"start":31377.104,"end":31404.873,"text":"當時會完全的不一樣的一個發展那我們希望重大的國家重大建設這是要中央大力來推動我們也希望更有遠見更有格局來思考好不好請院長再大力支持部長大力支持6月提出來啦出來之後我們也希望好不好這個地下的黃線的延伸請部長院長大力來支持好謝謝再來另外一件也是重要的建設啦齊金其實非常多外國人包括國人都很喜歡去旅遊那他其實是"},{"start":31405.493,"end":31428.265,"text":"過去它其實是半島它不是離島但是因為開高雄港的關係把它截斷之後它變成是一個離島了那現在我們是靠第一條的過港隧道在延伸那那個年限已經接近了那我們有做了一些延壽的工程那但是第二條過港隧道也應該要儘速來做啟動因為第一條年限已經快到那我們延壽了那第二條可行性也是已經規劃出來"},{"start":31429.426,"end":31453.212,"text":"那我也希望這一條未來的這個第二過港隧道能夠規劃讓其經常有說講到很多人講說他像新加坡的聖桃沙一樣那但是如果聖桃沙也是有很便利的軌道運出去那如果我們更有格局更遠近協助不只是第二過港隧道過去同時間未來規劃比如說輕軌等等能夠進去的話"},{"start":31453.792,"end":31471.976,"text":"他對當地的這個綠碳對當地的這個觀光的發展都有相當大的幫助那他是一個非常有潛力的地方他是高雄最早發展的地方有最早的媽祖廟有古老的宗教砲台等等的所以他其實是非常具有潛力的地方"},{"start":31472.396,"end":31493.254,"text":"我也希望院長、部長能夠大力支持可行性評估過了之後,也能夠來支持這樣的第二過往隧道建設。院長可以嗎?可以,我想就把這個可行性研究趕快完成,很重要。因為他現在出來大概是兩個路廊,一個是從廓建路,一個是漁港路經過。"},{"start":31494.468,"end":31516.698,"text":"那也希望院長到處所出來的時候,院長能夠大力來支持好嗎?好。他延受到138年,就是現在舊的要用到138年,所以他動工我們初步評估是10年到15年前開始動工。對我知道,就是說他其實第一條是有經過延受啦,延長壽命一段時間了,但是延長了之後他就靠這一條而已。"},{"start":31517.498,"end":31517.518,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":31541.784,"end":31543.546,"text":"這個對於高雄未來的持續的把人才留在高雄也是一個重要的一個過程。"},{"start":31560.165,"end":31580.199,"text":"就是他大概138年前10年跟15年就要開始興建了,這個時間要抓準抓準這個時間。我知道,不過都是要希望能夠提早好不好。對,現在的程序就要開始走。我希望都能夠提早啦,很多事情都是要提早,我還是要講第一過港隧道的年限其實已經快要到,是我們延壽他的延長了,但是我講的是"},{"start":31581.52,"end":31602.919,"text":"當地的大家都還是會擔憂,另一方面我也希望大眾運輸的思考能夠盡快的進去,好不好?這對於旗津的發展,你可以想像嗎?幾乎萬一有任何一些狀況的時候,旗津就形成是一個孤島,沒辦法出來。它要出來還要靠著做這個渡輪才要出來的。所以我一直說,當時是開高雄港才形成這樣的一個狀況嘛,我希望政府能夠更給予支持啦。"},{"start":31604.122,"end":31606.644,"text":"我希望能夠思考迄今國家風景這樣的概念"},{"start":31630.247,"end":31650.572,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":31651.177,"end":31679.28,"text":"我想這一個部分我們還是就像剛才的一樣看高雄市政府來評估看看他的情況,因為有...院長現在是高雄市政府負責,我只希望交通部公安局主的力道能夠進來來協助。對,如果需要交通局這邊來協助幫忙的地方。我希望這個...那最後一個還剩下一點點時間的時候,高雄的新航廈,機場的新航廈第一期大概到這個原先規劃到20..."},{"start":31680.681,"end":31682.863,"text":"謝謝賴委員瑞榮的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來向院會報告登記第21號"},{"start":31704.554,"end":31728.665,"text":"郭國文委員．第22號黃捷委員．第23號楊耀委員．第24號王美惠委員．其四位委員的質詢均以書面提出．請行政院書面答覆．並列入記錄刊登公報。在接下來我們請登記第25號盧明哲委員質詢。"},{"start":31739.473,"end":31743.758,"text":"呃謝謝呃韓院長有請我們行政院陳院長請陳院長備詢呃陳院長我看到那個我們王部長可以一起上來齁首先呢請交通部"},{"start":31757.152,"end":31781.382,"text":"從去年疫情趨緩之後這個旅遊完全開放不光是國內的旅遊到國外的旅遊但我們發覺從今年開始蠻明顯的原本我們在國旅的很多的觀光業界各個產業鏈的期待憑良因獎比現在會覺得說你看到這上面嗎"},{"start":31782.602,"end":31802.619,"text":"我們青年假還沒到那目前的一個初步的一個報導我希望能夠更好大概定房率到4成5我們希望能夠再高在春節旅遊的時候那已經過了嘛大概定房率大概到6成那其他點點滴滴就不講有些相關產業觀光的一些店家他們也不斷的一個反應"},{"start":31803.66,"end":31803.86,"text":"我請部長來回答"},{"start":31833.315,"end":31852.132,"text":"事實上現在國旅在那個假日還是很熱我跟這個委員報告那當然就是說冬天比較差是在離島的部分那前陣子我們跟離島幾個委員討論怎麼樣來做一些促銷比如說這個硬具買一送一等等的這個促銷也在做"},{"start":31853.069,"end":31874.146,"text":"那當然就是說因為國境開放以後有一些人會往國外來跑所以我們跟這個所有的觀光業在談就是說你的吸引力一定要這個能夠吸引大家願意留在國內那這部分包括我們觀光署的相關的建設計畫包括這些國境面歷緊急的計畫、風管處的相關的計畫也都在進行"},{"start":31879.15,"end":31895.058,"text":"你剛剛講這個我也非常認同因為疫情的時間我們編了很多的預算也投入了我們當時的觀光局、交通部很多的預算有些是直接希望促銷國旅的有很多是硬體的一個改善"},{"start":31895.598,"end":31919.572,"text":"那時候觀光局局長也再三不是光答應我跟委員說我們正好像各國一樣能夠藉這個時間把所有的基礎設施景點相關設施把它弄好可是我們看到最近在出國那個熱潮有沒有看到幾則報導我心裡是覺得雖然有點不服氣可是人家講的又好像是真的他說日本經過這個兩年多的疫情"},{"start":31921.773,"end":31950.856,"text":"他說已經進化升級,國旅還在原地踏步。我講的是非常廣泛的,有私部門有公部門的。你對於這句話這個報導,就是國際的很多的一個吸引觀光客在他疫情的階段他的基礎建設甚至觀光想方設法讓他提升。就是希望以後之後他能夠在世界的市場"},{"start":31951.876,"end":31970.855,"text":"槍得頭籌,你覺得臺灣這個有沒有落後?院長要不要講一下?我想這個要促進這個國旅,實際上中央政府的推動當然是很重要,我們觀光署很重要,但是地方政府也很重要。剛才賴瑞榮委員就提到,在像高雄,"},{"start":31972.778,"end":31987.488,"text":"國旅來講的話那高雄每次音樂會的時候不得了很多很多所以我們也希望說中央跟地方一起配合來發展這個地方的觀光的特色那像高雄這樣的辦了很多的這個重要的音樂會的時候"},{"start":31990.07,"end":32014.402,"text":"國旅的部分就會增加那這個確實是需要中央跟地方一起來努力的。好院長但是我們希望說整體啦各個城市各有特色各有想法各有努力真的很棒那我們想整個我們居然觀光局生屬了大家都對它有期待我相信院長也是那現在我請教一下這個是今年我們希望"},{"start":32017.222,"end":32032.793,"text":"國人希望能夠旅遊,但如果國人旅遊目前還沒有辦法達到這樣的熱潮,我們希望國外來臺的旅客,不管是商務也好、純觀光的人都希望多一點。那這個部長特別有說過,今天的目標是1200萬人。"},{"start":32035.56,"end":32050.039,"text":"那你那時候也說那時候當然因為之前嘛希望那個陸客呢也能夠來台啦如果沒有辦法沒有辦法開放陸客的話也會持續想辦法努力啊那現在看起來齁看起來這個"},{"start":32052.125,"end":32056.949,"text":"的確當時觀光署1200萬裡面大概有200到250萬是入客當然就是說我們去年大概是這個狀況600萬有100萬的入客結果我們最後是648萬"},{"start":32081.674,"end":32107.719,"text":"當然我們目標是這樣那當然就是說入客能早一點開放來那當然這個目標早一點達到那如果沒有的話我們繼續來努力目前還是這個目標還沒有修正大概以這個就是扣掉入客的部分大概是1000萬不過你現在1月到2月幫你統計了118萬平均大概50接近60萬如果這樣12個月的話我再預估可能700到800萬"},{"start":32109.119,"end":32137.535,"text":"所以我覺得這是設定目標我們在這裡不是吐槽要努力要努力嘛如果現在是七八百萬到底該怎麼樣去補足那我那一天聽到了這個院長應該你也知道吧我們一年大概有500到600萬轉機的旅客那他的免簽證的觀光時間怎麼訂定這個我們近期內也會來做個敲定讓轉機成為觀光客的一個來源"},{"start":32139.244,"end":32166.983,"text":"說真的那天聽到我們副院長的他這一席宣布其實我個人是比較我很贊成我也很興奮為什麼大家都知道轉機客旅遊因為時間有限如果真的可乘的話機場附近的城市機場附近的景點是優先獲利我相信桃園機場桃園當然我覺得這如果可以開放很重要往北可能到盧竹新北大家都會在第一線受惠"},{"start":32167.543,"end":32186.274,"text":"那這個部分一個月過去了嘛2月22號那現在3月22號那院長那個因為這個他不是交通部的真的跨很多的一個單位的那這個部分院長你知道這個宣布嗎我我我記得當天是我我也在"},{"start":32187.355,"end":32193.818,"text":"當時副院長是希望625萬但是在跨部會包括外交包括移民署討論的時候認為說有一些轉機進來如果免簽證會有一些問題所以這個問題現在還沒有處理好"},{"start":32214.548,"end":32220.873,"text":"因為簽證的部分,免簽證有牽涉到很多課題,尤其過去沒有這個不能都一定要簽證的國家,你要不要在機場讓他直接免簽證寄來。這個這個我在那個會議長我召開會再討論。"},{"start":32238.647,"end":32256.882,"text":"這個還在研議中。以112年來說我們轉聚率客到達625萬當然未來是怎麼樣不清楚但至少幾百萬人五六百萬可能是一個可預期的客戶的一個來源那當然有些人很快轉聚他不可能會出來嘛所以我拜託你們趕快去研究讓"},{"start":32258.503,"end":32284.018,"text":"現在我們覺得4小時之內我覺得對於交通部也是要看一下像章宜機場他們在機場那個領域裡面那個小城市的觀光很熱門有些瀑布有些什麼綠袋很多兒童園區他有些收門票的在裡面就有產值不是存給你觀光的當然你說那免稅店大家都有我倒是覺得一、二行家看起來沒機會了"},{"start":32285.078,"end":32312.037,"text":"三行下三行下因為還有時間我是真的是建議就是說這轉機客要去吸引到不一定時間短的他進不了城市四小時之內的我覺得如果我們有一些像世界特色機場的他去那邊都必定要去看我倒是覺得這個部分我在這裡建議你在三行下能夠考量有降德的室內的包括在進在那個機場"},{"start":32313.098,"end":32341.938,"text":"這個小城市裡面的觀光那8小時有可能甚至8小時以上的我們鄰近的城市是非常期待非常深啊因為我們在判斷機場最重要直接的交通工具就是機場捷運機捷機捷不管從A12、A13一航廈、二航廈甚至他們能夠搭一站、兩站搭幾站很快半個小時抵達的部分坦白往南就是"},{"start":32342.638,"end":32342.658,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":32360.555,"end":32361.976,"text":"一步一步向前走"},{"start":32381.462,"end":32409.14,"text":"院長多費心好不好?這個部分我剛才已經講過這個已經請政府院長來召開相關各部會的這個會議那這個也正在演繹當中所以我相信這一個政府院長的這個會我們會繼續請他再來推動那剛才您講的這一些構想是不錯那現在就是我們有很多的需要解決的這一些"},{"start":32409.81,"end":32409.93,"text":"好的"},{"start":32418.285,"end":32441.518,"text":"這個未來這個機場捷運的承載的功能越來越多了當然疫情之後乘客的回流第二個當然行政院我們T-PASS很多的民眾通勤他也選擇了集結所以目前的整個這個承載的人次是快速的成長第三個當然機場國門他原本的功能那現在我們預計"},{"start":32442.739,"end":32472.739,"text":"議員．"},{"start":32472.919,"end":32498.492,"text":"因應未來的人潮需要9列的直達6列的普通。目前溝通了好幾次,行政院級我們也介入了,說大概中央目前的評估,雖然還沒有定案,還沒有確定,大概是給三分之二,直達6列,普通4列。經費原本大約90億,現在變成60億。"},{"start":32501.593,"end":32520.652,"text":"那目前為止我相信院長你也知道我們副院長也一直在協調這件事情那這61要怎麼補助啊這個院長這邊可不可以多幫忙一點我想這一個補助的情況還是會跟地方政府再來協調"},{"start":32521.593,"end":32541.798,"text":"那這一件事情我跟您報告一下實際上我們副院長跟我們桃園市政府有很密集在溝通至於這個金額是多少當然他們還會在商量的過程可是我們會盡可能的來協助這個集結購車這個我們確實是有這樣的希望他們也能夠提出計畫"},{"start":32548.399,"end":32574.065,"text":"政策指示盡可能因為我覺得未來是不是總共要15例那我覺得至少第一階段大家達成共識先上因為這個車從訂購到真正製造在進場都好幾年之後了搞不好我們已經這個轉機客都已經進來了所以我們當然希望第一階段能夠快一點所以剛剛院長特別說我們盡力幫忙當然我們也知道嘛有些道理我們在評估的時候那一天"},{"start":32574.825,"end":32574.845,"text":"直達車"},{"start":32586.667,"end":32611.889,"text":"我們這個行政院跟交通部認為跟中央政策相關地方是承載了中央的一個國門的責任因為主要國境進出它的一個重要的交通工具它就進進出出搞不好也不到我們城市裡面來這個部分中央補助84%就得補助大部分因為我覺得這合理啦真的合理因為有些人拿行李就去上飛機了也不到桃園也不到新北"},{"start":32614.844,"end":32630.6,"text":"所以部長我要問一下最主要84%的來源他是承載了國進出入所以才這樣考量的是不是?你們在內部的討論是這樣嗎?對 這個政務院長有開過會就是直達車比較像是國家的門面在進出"},{"start":32631.946,"end":32656.613,"text":"那這個普通車比較地方,像台北捷運地方性的,所以他現在就是用直達車84%,那剛才談到60億,算起來就大概30億了。好,這個普通車,因為你們普通車變零趴,零趴的原因是你們的成績啦,現在三個城市嘛,桃園、新北、台北,你們自己每一站來來去去,人民走動的過程,我理解啦。"},{"start":32657.213,"end":32675.251,"text":"其實這個推斷的邏輯我是真的是可以接受如果普通車真的是這樣的話但是我是覺得這個思考有一點北向思考就是說我有台北的觀點因為我直達車目前主要是跑台北新北停兩站就直接殺進機場"},{"start":32677.192,"end":32694.128,"text":"主要當然現在一天幾十班裡面有給大概8到9個列車也讓他跑到中壢金浦站是有但是絕大部分都在臺北出發那首都我沒有意見我沒有意見首都是這樣的"},{"start":32695.009,"end":32710.985,"text":"那可是南向思考我們要往南邊走的人呢?這些旅客呢?或者國人或者旅客要從機場南端要進國門有沒有用機捷這件事啦?所以我現在在討論這個事情因為A23站是中壢火車站"},{"start":32718.687,"end":32745.998,"text":"難得一條季節連串接了臺北火車站是頭尾巴到了中壢火車站這兩個很特別可是我跟你講臺北火車站有直搭車中壢沒有直搭車對不對就算我們現在在幾年蓋好之後中壢沒有直搭車因為訊號的關係我們在前面兩站就用手動切就切了車沒有辦法直接衝進來所以他只能"},{"start":32746.818,"end":32746.838,"text":"﹚一、"},{"start":32760.776,"end":32761.277,"text":"拜託到高鐵"},{"start":32778.678,"end":32778.698,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":32798.366,"end":32812.9,"text":"但如果證明是有我這邊拜託院長部長因為還要繼續討論他確實有承載承載的實際的數據呢那不是說故事中立站還沒通喔中立站一通我相信火車串接的人會更多現況"},{"start":32815.239,"end":32826.866,"text":"就是我南端從青埔到中壢A22還沒到火山前一站在整個中壢市區跟青埔地區這一個月我抓一個月2月21號到3月21號到昨天為止這幾個站進站人數51萬8"},{"start":32834.409,"end":32859.686,"text":"進站就從那邊跑進來,進站要去什麼目的地呢?都有,去台北也有。但是他們的目的地是在A12、13跟14A機場的那個旅館的,總共是19萬7千多人。也就是說具體的數字,很多人搭乘普通車,因為他沒有直搭車,有38%的人就是直接去機場。"},{"start":32861.573,"end":32884.616,"text":"所以我要拜託這個數據我想私下我再給交通部我再給行政院你們參考一下我在講的是普通車也承載了南向我們的國人旅客直接要去機場的這樣的一個國家的責任所以我覺得應該要給予補助這個部分如果數字是這樣院長你是不是能夠至少不能是0%吧"},{"start":32886.257,"end":32910.865,"text":"我想這個謝謝委員跟捷運公司調出這個資料因為我們以往沒有這樣的一個數據那這個數據當然也就請這個桃園市政府來提供在會議上讓這個政府院長也能夠納入考慮那確實你如果說是這樣的話那就要看說哪一些我不曉得他這個數據做的是從"},{"start":32915.666,"end":32933.413,"text":"是從哪裡進站的?清普地區A17是清普有三站清普地區有中壢和清普跟高鐵一直到中壢市區從清普去的話對清普到中壢市區上車要往北向坐到站點下車有這麼多這樣的好不好?"},{"start":32934.013,"end":32938.816,"text":"我只提供一個意見,你們可以吊一整年的好不好,但是拜託普通車不要零趴,他也承載著國家責任,這是我今天"},{"start":32953.564,"end":32977.395,"text":"拜託你們,可以嗎?給部長做一個回應那個委員你知道機場捷運當時是兩段連起來的,一個是這個紫線是當時的桃園的紫線,一個是機場到台北的通勤路線,現在精神是這樣,這是地區的捷運。謝謝你,院長都說要考慮了,就拜託你回去考慮一下,因為我時間不太夠了。接下來要請教一個重大的問題"},{"start":32978.697,"end":33002.267,"text":"因為是我在上屆立委這個一上任的時候主要關心的問題一樣是我們桃園鐵路地下化的一個問題這是三年前110年3月整整三年前提出總諮詢去跟交通部那當時我記得應該已經是王部長那我就只想問一件事因為當時的這個部分是走到這個工程"},{"start":33004.765,"end":33024.235,"text":"已經細色發包了。工程動工預計是111年4月,現在的時間點是113年的3月。我想請教一下,這樣的好不好,因為院長可能軌道工程他管太多,我想請教部長。那我就想說民眾人在問我啊,完工日期"},{"start":33025.865,"end":33026.025,"text":"應該各加3年"},{"start":33048.7,"end":33059.076,"text":"各加三年。原因第一個是桃園站的文資,第二個因為現在憑證的延伸要放到這一期裡面,所以應該各加三年。再加三年?"},{"start":33059.076,"end":33060.819,"text":"各加三年,對。你老實啊,那我可以下課了。"},{"start":33064.131,"end":33090.604,"text":"但是拜託不要再給我這個報告你說今天再加三年跟我講真心話可是三個禮拜你就沒跟我講真心話好啦那今天的情況那你也知道就現在施工進度只有憑證開工啦就總工程主體工程他的全工程進度0.18而已啦距離還很遠啦這我沒有要怪誰啦就是事實的資料讓民眾期待"},{"start":33091.604,"end":33107.092,"text":"最大是在憑證這個臺灣市政府認為要放到這一期那憑證剛剛從可行性開始你其他都在施工會被他偷到被他偷到其實今天一次反正有那個紀錄立法院都有紀錄一次講清楚憑證"},{"start":33109.053,"end":33119.63,"text":"的站當然大家知道會延期嘛可是我們講先不要講憑證好不好先不要講憑證發生的事大家看前面三個是當時承諾108年世衛會完工的"},{"start":33122.756,"end":33145.841,"text":"桃園內立中立三站說我們118年會完工的現在發生什麼事呢當然我也謝謝鐵道局努力啦終於發包出去了啦所以我倒不是在有發包出去不錯了但是現在發包出去我們一看工期嘛以桃園站預計7月開工你們跟他合約簽訂的日曆天的工期嘛公共工程委員委員會也在這裡嘛"},{"start":33146.861,"end":33169.738,"text":"兩千四百六十四天啊將近六年多的時間啊我就簡單就是沒有任何的理由再來常常不可規則的一天都不延也要到一百二十年對不對那終於也是啊到一百二十年五月所以你的意思說一百一十八年本來的你加三年所以我就沒有意見啊就比如說"},{"start":33171.107,"end":33182.804,"text":"一定會有還要工程一定還會演一點尤其桃園站現在有三大不確定會造成比較大延期的因素第一個就是您剛剛很了解的憑證難言"},{"start":33186.069,"end":33210.367,"text":"1.2公里那個比較嚴重因為現在修改計畫之後還要重新環境評估、環差分析再來走一遍其實我聽了有一點頭痛那第二個是桃園站的文資問題文資的問題但是我覺得要積極啦要積極那當然第三個其實就是經費的問題"},{"start":33213.171,"end":33238.935,"text":"我要拜託現在這是另外一個角度來反戰現在這個問題啊。現在台灣鐵路地下化現在發生什麼事啊?其實我們最近都在問欸內地戰還有三個戰還沒超標出去嘛。內地戰我們台灣醫院戰跟那個新北的鳳鳴戰我一直在問說欸四個戰已經終於今年標出去了另外三個怎麼不標不標不標?結果私下了解沒錢了。"},{"start":33239.721,"end":33261.584,"text":"沒錢的原因呢?我們只有1048億吧?院長部長你們看一下下面幾個數據就是我們系社PCM大約框了21用地費框66億然後臨時佔臨時工程主體工程還有一些監照總共加起來"},{"start":33262.125,"end":33263.026,"text":"平政要重新提一個修正計劃"},{"start":33284.346,"end":33311.252,"text":"他現在要把內力站、陶衣站、鳳鳴站整個包進去啊包進去啊去走一個奇幻旅遊啊奇幻旅遊就一直等等等等其他三個本來沒問題的嘛本來沒問題只是差錢但你把它包進去他就要等環差分析他要等重新國發會整個繞一圈因為我很多工程繞幾圈我都清楚我很害怕可是第一個"},{"start":33312.608,"end":33332.964,"text":"原來的1046億現在幾乎很明確會變成1500億以上那這個部分經費會不會有問題?這個部長覺得?包括南沿還有包括整個物價上漲的部分我們初估會增加700億"},{"start":33334.554,"end":33336.036,"text":"施政計畫現在已經完成了,準備來報施政計畫"},{"start":33349.488,"end":33377.837,"text":"所以增加700億因為我這邊算就至少是500億啦所以你說真的700億我是覺得就一次把大概的可能情況講清楚這種東西不要微調也許民眾覺得哇怎麼那麼多但是事實上大家在這個領域提出具體的核算的數字因為我問鐵道局局長他實不講欸他沒有吃那個老實素的藥所以他實不講他說可能一毛沒增加哇靠"},{"start":33379.198,"end":33407.817,"text":"這個但是今天把這個事情講清楚所以現在要非常積極我要拜託院長要不管未來因為要扯到國發會又要再繞一圈又要我們行政院我想現在可以去做的可以去評估的我要拜託要簡化鳳鳴站、陶藝站、內地的整個過程不要讓他們再受折磨一次大家排隊能不能讓他們先排出來這三案先走然後憑證延伸案"},{"start":33408.837,"end":33417.783,"text":"因為他還要環差分析嘛,他的速度會慢一點。這個部分是不是請你們考量,能夠分工,分別來做一個處理,可以嗎?"},{"start":33418.669,"end":33430.673,"text":"你意思是說分段通徹的意思是嗎?分段嗎?不是啦,我說工程啦。我們現在就花包,現在該走就走。我知道啦,你現在內力,你整個繞完之後,環差分析我跟你講一年啦。"},{"start":33438.735,"end":33459.034,"text":"一年之後你才讓他發包。我跟你講喔,其他的工程是含有暫提的喔,含有暫提的。它的複雜性不像平正延伸工程,它只是地下讓軌道拉長,它相對的工程、工法、工期會減少很多。所以你不能讓他們弄在一起。到最後,"},{"start":33459.674,"end":33477.341,"text":"那到最後不好意思喔最後完最後那個憑證會先那個地下會先挖好那有什麼用所以我拜託院長部長我今天講這個拜託你這三個工期都要很久一定要讓他們先一個單獨一個案子先跑讓他們先發包憑證要經過這個"},{"start":33481.824,"end":33483.505,"text":"楊局長是不是這樣?你好像臉色不太同意喔?"},{"start":33498.663,"end":33523.34,"text":"拜託啊這三個只欠東風的錢的案子讓他們先跑啦趕快找到錢先發包另外一個還有很多行政程序要經過發會的那我們在另外的行政來推動好不好我就做這樣的一個拜託也希望院長能夠再多幫忙好謝謝非常謝謝魯明哲委員的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢"},{"start":33527.301,"end":33544.567,"text":"接下來登記第26號賴委員會員,登記第27號林委員楚英,登記第28號王委員世堅,三位委員之質詢均以書面提出。"},{"start":33545.972,"end":33568.301,"text":"請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。報院會交通組織質詢已詢答完畢。非常感謝陳院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。三月26日星期二上午9時繼續開會進行司法及法治組織質詢。現在休息。"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}