{"total":{"value":46,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-04-03"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"150891","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150891","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec0152cd949d8570fc15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6403bed0ec3b6ed555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"13:16:47 - 13:20:14","影片長度":"00:03:27","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":207,"end_time":"2024-04-03T13:20:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T13:16:47+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6215937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.27971875,"end":1.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.920343750000001,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.86096875,"end":8.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.075968750000001,"end":10.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.36221875,"end":67.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.45909375000001,"end":74.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.61846875,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.36471875000001,"end":78.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.03534375000001,"end":82.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.17409375000001,"end":97.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.30284375000001,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.10846875,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.62284375,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.03096875,"end":115.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.96221875,"end":150.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.77534375,"end":123.85971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.97346875000001,"end":125.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.22534375,"end":133.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.14284375,"end":148.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.11284375,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.31534375,"end":151.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.38284375,"end":151.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.98596875,"end":171.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.53159375,"end":172.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.91534375,"end":173.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.97846875000002,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.94034375,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.97409375,"end":184.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.61534375000002,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.53471875000002,"end":178.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.08659375000002,"end":189.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.58784375000002,"end":204.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.37659375,"end":191.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.26221875000002,"end":195.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.45596875,"end":197.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.29971875,"end":197.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.14346875,"end":198.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.66659375,"end":198.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.34534375,"end":202.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.39596875,"end":202.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.45471875,"end":205.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.22659375,"end":207.42471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.29,"end":0.45,"text":"請體育署長"},{"start":14.288,"end":36.89,"text":"最近大家都關心我們重要隊男籃的成績兩場比賽69比89 106比53算慘敗當然就很多檢討的聲量我先請教體育署長你覺得我們應不應該在乎國際賽的成績你是在乎還是不在乎我在乎 非常在乎你非常在乎對不對我今天把話講在前面因為有些國家不見得在乎比如說我職業賽做得非常好"},{"start":37.31,"end":56.783,"text":"好到我可以不在乎國際賽的成績我也是一個籃球大國這也是一種路線但既然體育組長講在乎那我們就要有在乎的樣子你同意這樣說法嗎是好那這個我們的南南隊長提出了很多的指教跟建議嘛包含集訓陣容不齊全組訓時間過短失能保險規劃球員等等的問題那這些東西喔我們今天在這個簡單的時間來做一下救教我先問喔這個賽事喔衝突協調的問題啦以亞洲盃資格賽來講是2222號打到2226號對不對"},{"start":64.788,"end":78.045,"text":"中國大陸CBA他的賽程怎麼調整你知道嗎這部分沒有掌握到他年前就停賽一路停到資格賽打完才復賽日本B聯盟你知道嗎他們怎麼處理他們也是提前11號休賽到31號韓國聯賽2月16號休賽2月28號可是我們呢"},{"start":83.351,"end":101.561,"text":"我們目前就是因為有這樣的問題,我們的踢聯盟並沒有因為這樣而停賽,所以我們在昨天也請藍鞋成立一個9人小組,針對未來長期集訓這個賽制、賽程的安排,把球團跟藍鞋聚在一起,來做一個…這是我今天講的,你當然可以講說這是藍鞋要處理的事情,每一個體育者都講說有協會跟職業賽會,就讓他們去處理就好。"},{"start":106.283,"end":126.569,"text":"那我就去問體育署的角色是什麼嗎?我們就是來主導這件事情,要他來依照大家的期待來做這個安排,所以這個九年教育是我們這邊來主義的。組長我提醒你啦,這些協會的狀況,就是一般基層的不管是運動的從業人員或者是球迷,對於協會的很多指教很多意見,這也不是只有在籃球嘛,我們之前講過足球的問題,這已經不是一天兩天的事情了。"},{"start":127.009,"end":150.016,"text":"所以說你不能頭痛一頭腳痛一腳嘛發生事情才來處理沒有意識嘛對不對你照理來講你早就應該做這樣的事啦然後讓這個事情再發生不是很糟糕嗎對不對第一個你體育署的角色到底是什麼具體來說你能夠做到哪些事情你合作一個書面報告好不好好第二個問規劃球員的問題喔現在看起來是用這個書勳的方式個案處理對不對可是我們規劃球員有助於增加國家隊戰力嘛"},{"start":151.392,"end":174.665,"text":"系統化的處理跟制度化的處理你有沒有配搭方案?籃球這部分絕對有幫助那我們來跟內政部初步的溝通那他們當然高專的部分他們目前行政院版是兩線說為兩年他們現在正在送院準備要來做審查而書訊的部分我們也請教那當然內政部目前的回應是說這個書訊的部分不能隨便使用所以要制度化處理嘛你有多大把握?多久時間內可以處理完?"},{"start":177.146,"end":204.014,"text":"蘇勛是特案嘛我現在講是制度化嘛比如說我針對規劃球員有專章或怎麼樣讓他速度可以更快效果可以更好這部分我們再來跟內政部談因為畢竟這部分掌握在內政部的手上那這部分我會積極來跟他們溝通第三個問題叫失能投保的問題這剛剛跟職業化薪資有關這就是你體育署的角色這部分我們5月中會協助協會跟職業體系的借接跟協調這是你的責任好不好這部分5月中會完成這三個部分會後提供書面資料可以嗎好沒問題謝謝委員謝謝主席喔不好意思"},{"start":204.495,"end":204.535,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150890","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150890","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec17b4080c1c304f0f15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6fa85456fcb5f641e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"13:11:56 - 13:16:21","影片長度":"00:04:25","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":265,"end_time":"2024-04-03T13:16:21+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T13:11:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.8240937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.26659375,"end":42.235343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.53909375,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.03346875000003,"end":200.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.16846875000002,"end":200.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.25284375,"end":217.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.27221875,"end":213.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.68534375000002,"end":213.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.76096875000002,"end":218.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.58346875,"end":256.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.95346875,"end":226.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.96096875,"end":232.50096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.19284375,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.90034375000002,"end":242.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.26159375,"end":252.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.23596875,"end":254.80971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.75471875000002,"end":263.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.96971875,"end":257.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.31909375000004,"end":263.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.58034375,"end":265.96409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.389,"end":20.939,"text":"請次長伍委員好次長好今天很高興我們是一起來關心我們的體育選手那我們常常說其實國家的體育政策不應該以培育奧運金牌選手為目標應該是希望能夠打造出培育奧運金牌選手的環境"},{"start":21.819,"end":40.301,"text":"在這個當中其實一直以來我們很關心的就是這一些學生運動員他們其實之所以會退場有的是因為經濟因素那很多呢其實是因為運動傷害那我們常關心的就是說能不能夠更多的運動專業教練進到校園來"},{"start":42.663,"end":46.745,"text":"能不能夠有更多的運動防護員進來那能不能夠有更好的一個場館設備讓他們在更安全的環境那今天我們很高興就是談到關於我們這個傷害的一個保險那因為時間的關係從這個揚州杯南南保險的爭議我是想說直接來談一下我的訴求"},{"start":67.757,"end":68.017,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":98.277,"end":117.606,"text":"關於這一次的這個保險爭議的公聽會教育部這邊有提到的長期目標就是會會同金管會參考高中以下學生及教保服務機構幼兒團體保險條例去研擬體育選手的政策保險所以我希望有關體育選手政策保險的部分"},{"start":118.346,"end":124.207,"text":"除了要參照我剛才講的那個保險項目也希望能夠考量體育活動賽事對運動選手造成的高風險調高保障的金額並且參考農民健康保險軍人保險的設計規劃體育選手退訓退役之後的給付那此外呢也希望說在專法中退明定妥善運用運動發展基金跟相關預算來推動體育選手的政策保險那對象呢"},{"start":148.392,"end":163.403,"text":"希望不要只極限於國家代表的選手．各階段的體育選手．包括他在各階段的訓練比賽的環境中所遇到的風險．也能夠請體育署去參考美國的重大傷害保險計畫．優秀學生運動員失能計畫這些機制．"},{"start":167.925,"end":186.215,"text":"來規劃各階段體育階段的選手所需要的保險項目那再來就是我國雖然目前有國民體育法第23條的規定但是欠缺完整的運動員保險機制那希望體育署就商業保險不足的地方來訂定全體運動員保險專法那並針對上述意見呢我是希望說就保險的內容保險的對象保險的裁員去研議一個妥適方案"},{"start":195.52,"end":195.92,"text":"兩月內希望有書面報告與本席說明以上"},{"start":211.92,"end":212.5,"text":"伍麗華Said"},{"start":233.557,"end":233.577,"text":"致詢問題﹗"},{"start":256.963,"end":257.224,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150889","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150889","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec607bd93b3632104315c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a67924f3be77b3115f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"13:06:44 - 13:11:35","影片長度":"00:04:51","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":291,"end_time":"2024-04-03T13:11:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T13:06:44+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.228468750000001,"end":7.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.709093750000001,"end":9.801593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.41721875,"end":13.058468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.51409375,"end":22.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.36909375,"end":30.895343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.83596875,"end":49.187843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.01159375,"end":44.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.900968750000004,"end":52.056593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.588468750000004,"end":52.461593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.61346875,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.18284375,"end":61.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.40534375,"end":65.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.47221875000001,"end":65.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.60284375,"end":74.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.39471875000001,"end":84.45659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.34659375000001,"end":88.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.59096875,"end":88.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.96221875,"end":104.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.00659375000001,"end":104.11596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.82471875,"end":106.39409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.11971875,"end":110.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.99721875,"end":109.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.34284375,"end":110.44409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.44409375000001,"end":110.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.46096875,"end":110.59596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.59596875000001,"end":110.62971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.62971875000001,"end":112.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.36784375,"end":113.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.12721875000001,"end":121.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.02471875,"end":121.34534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.34534375000001,"end":124.48409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.76721875000001,"end":131.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.63534375,"end":130.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.53784375,"end":150.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.55471875,"end":131.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.76284375,"end":149.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.45034375,"end":153.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.96471875,"end":156.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.12034375000002,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.02721875,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.33409375000002,"end":169.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.11409375000002,"end":177.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.89784375000002,"end":178.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.46721875,"end":181.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.21346875,"end":184.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.25096875,"end":199.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.32471875000002,"end":201.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.95721875,"end":209.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.06159375000001,"end":228.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.20034375,"end":212.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.67034375,"end":232.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.39534375000002,"end":236.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.84659375,"end":235.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.60159375,"end":243.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.30534375000002,"end":258.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.66784375,"end":245.56221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.62346875000003,"end":265.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.99784375,"end":270.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.80721875,"end":271.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.89971875000003,"end":273.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.03471875,"end":286.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.97346875,"end":288.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.84659375,"end":289.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.84221875000003,"end":290.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.97284375000004,"end":291.20909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.213,"end":9.537,"text":"上個禮拜六很巧跟署長一起看這個中華職棒第一場在這個大巨蛋開幕賽我先問一下那一天我們在看的時候就有人講說那個大巨蛋搖晃比較厲害對不對今天又回到大巨蛋那個防震地震這個安不安全"},{"start":32.964,"end":60.839,"text":"報告委員我想臺北市體育局他應該昨天有大概說明一下對外說明說當天比賽的時候因為可能因為風大所以有感受到一些晃動那是正常的對他說是整個鋼體它是結構是正常的現象那今天這個地方這麼嚴重那目前還沒有得到消息有去看過嗎今天還沒有今天還沒有可能要去看一下好不好最重要那麼多人在裡面看那個安全跟防震一定要注意好不好"},{"start":62.519,"end":84.225,"text":"我們終於有一個大的室內巨蛋了美國職棒大聯盟今年海外的開幕賽開幕戰就是在索爾的高瓷天宮巨蛋教育部跟體育署這邊能不能去爭取一下美尼還是奧尼能不能去爭取一下美國職棒大聯盟的海外開幕戰有沒有可能來我們的大巨蛋"},{"start":86.397,"end":86.497,"text":"報告委員．"},{"start":107.182,"end":124.667,"text":"棒球賽事是非常重要的,世界十二強,你隊對不對?你們跟中職那邊準備好了嗎?那部分中職棒鞋都已經談好了,所以這部分在進行當中。怎麼幫忙?大家眾所矚目對不對?棒鞋重要的這個賽事,經典賽,你看古尼多少人心都跟著這個經典賽走。你隊這個十二強非常非常重要。"},{"start":131.889,"end":132.149,"text":"齊凱是嘉義人"},{"start":154.022,"end":157.223,"text":"我看到你們對這個球場的這個幫忙跟補助好像比較多的在目前是在職棒的我是說在嘉義卡隆這個球場"},{"start":182.307,"end":184.43,"text":"教育部跟體育署這邊會做什麼樣的幫忙嗎教育部跟體育署這邊會做什麼樣的幫忙嗎"},{"start":202.071,"end":202.091,"text":"張啓楷議員"},{"start":223.388,"end":232.474,"text":"家藝人很喜歡棒球這不只是國球,這卡弄精神棒球這個原鄉啊那在選手跟教練這個培訓跟這個照顧上面"},{"start":237.384,"end":257.875,"text":"這部分我們會後我來找中職的秘書長來談一下,看看有沒有可能性。因為我們這個運動不是只有棒球,看起來有點城鄉差距,對不對?你在推動這個全民運動有感覺嘛,對不對?特別是嘉義縣市或者南部很多地方是有弱勢的。另外,嘉義最近很積極在推動這個基層的高爾夫。"},{"start":258.857,"end":269.435,"text":"他們現在在這個西區的全民運動館那邊阿要規劃一個基層高爾夫的室內練習場我早先找你一起去好不好,我們來看一下給他們簽你的方法,次長跟我去還是署長跟我去都給我"},{"start":273.452,"end":287.841,"text":"市長我們好久不見了,你跟我去那邊看看,不只是基層高爾夫球場棒球這一塊,嘉義的這個運動風氣是很盛的,環保委員會這方面做得不錯啦,市長跟署長有空陪我去看一下好不好,對嘉義縣市多幫忙,好,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150888","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150888","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec3208b05ca1851c2315c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a631fabb5b0b8d58bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"13:01:56 - 13:06:15","影片長度":"00:04:19","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":259,"end_time":"2024-04-03T13:06:15+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T13:01:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.40596875,"end":6.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.6334687500000005,"end":6.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.919718750000001,"end":51.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.93659375,"end":10.847843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.847843750000003,"end":10.898468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.31971875,"end":15.606593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.247218750000002,"end":20.297843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.297843750000002,"end":20.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.88784375,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.30096875,"end":70.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.64471875000001,"end":75.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.37846875000001,"end":71.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.50471875000001,"end":73.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.69846875,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.51659375,"end":81.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.03096875,"end":108.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.77596875,"end":93.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.09846875000001,"end":110.17409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.97596875,"end":109.09409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.09409375000001,"end":109.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.70159375,"end":109.73534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.73534375000001,"end":175.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.98659375,"end":203.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.52659375000002,"end":217.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.61721875,"end":257.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.65909375,"end":219.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.67596875,"end":219.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.69284375,"end":220.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.89409375000002,"end":255.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.07096875,"end":259.33221875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.744,"end":31.747,"text":"謝謝主席 請次長來 請次長次長 剛才我有聽到那個我們的鄭天才委員講到花蓮女中那這個校長說他是民國79年的一個校舍所以呢希望要全部的重建所以我也希望說第一個能夠協助花蓮女中重建因為否則的話這樣的校舍即便你在修修補補也非常困難"},{"start":32.668,"end":32.708,"text":"主席"},{"start":54.38,"end":54.84,"text":"那他下個禮拜上課怎麼辦"},{"start":75.751,"end":76.011,"text":"所以明天："},{"start":93.982,"end":118.396,"text":"下週學生還是同樣回學校上課嗎他沒有影響他這一棟教室是比較是低度使用的他別的那個教室上課是沒有問題好如果你們經過整個的對我覺得一個當然安全是第一但是授教權也非常重要不要因為這個校舍的損毀然後影響學生授教權"},{"start":119.116,"end":143.172,"text":"那另外我在這邊也具體的要求就是呢現在你們應該立刻今天下午事實上就可以做通令全台灣的各縣市教育局要全面的檢修老舊的校舍所以我想次長也是從在台北市我過去在議會裡面就曾經提出我們台北市有非常多的校舍超過50年"},{"start":145.293,"end":145.333,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":176.053,"end":199.687,"text":"要求你們可不可以立刻的通令全台的教育局要求他們全面的來檢視那該修的修真的應該要去真的我認為就該改建我以前在議會裡面我就一直推動我說你50年以上不要被報文資之後你動都動不了老師說是這樣子趕快的加速的更新"},{"start":200.567,"end":206.311,"text":"所以次長可不可以今天下午立刻通令全台教育局所以你們立刻要讓各縣市政府來報災情因為今天時間有限因為是地震像我剛剛講的議題尤其我們台北市"},{"start":227.887,"end":227.927,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":257.467,"end":257.627,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150887","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150887","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec5e3147b0c644f1f615c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6319244cd862d27405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"12:55:22 - 13:01:50","影片長度":"00:06:28","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":388,"end_time":"2024-04-03T13:01:50+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T12:55:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.73909375,"end":10.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.31159375,"end":66.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.46346875,"end":70.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.93971875,"end":71.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.93534375,"end":76.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.55471875,"end":98.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.15471875,"end":113.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.29159375,"end":114.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.82721875,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.70034375,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.22721875,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.74596875,"end":155.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.31471875,"end":165.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.04721875,"end":177.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.41659375,"end":180.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.76221875000002,"end":199.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.56096875,"end":207.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.35721875000002,"end":208.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.57221875000002,"end":214.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.61346875,"end":223.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.07596875000002,"end":236.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.82096875000002,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.74221875,"end":290.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.90096875,"end":306.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.44721875000005,"end":321.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.33284375,"end":312.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.02846875,"end":313.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.26471875000004,"end":313.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.68534375,"end":323.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.79909375,"end":333.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.58659375,"end":334.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.68346875000003,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.91346875000005,"end":386.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.37159375000005,"end":358.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.36659375000005,"end":363.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.19096875,"end":380.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.26596875,"end":386.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.28284375000004,"end":386.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.36721875,"end":386.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.43471875,"end":386.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.51909375,"end":387.97034375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.482,"end":0.562,"text":"我們請次長跟署長"},{"start":13.462,"end":33.15,"text":"市長好我想今天我們在討論是完善國家代表隊選手的權利義務那我想大家都很重視而且呢我看不分黨派的委員都很支持那尤其剛剛有通過那10個提案裡面幾乎大家都很願意支持但是我覺得不是只有國手"},{"start":33.79,"end":56.237,"text":"國家代表隊的選手需要照顧如同你們的業務報告裡面剛剛政委員提到的對於各項的運動選手的照顧我們要落實那我就必須再提一點一直以來都不受到重視2011年那時候我們都在談學生選手的參賽沒有保險的保障"},{"start":56.957,"end":76.554,"text":"受傷了怎麼辦?抱歉,台語說回家自己顧五歲那個時候2011年就要討論這個所以後來我知道我們現行的體育署有一個補助辦法它補助辦法規定的是什麼?次長我跟你說就是樓地板的保障"},{"start":77.611,"end":77.871,"text":"請教育部次長"},{"start":99.212,"end":101.573,"text":"事實上都沒有受到保障那好我再跟你講"},{"start":122.819,"end":138.269,"text":"除了這個運動賽事的主辦單位不同而有不同的保障保險還差很大以外我剛剛把你盤點出來我這個只是抓個大項各個單項協會你們要求的樓地板就我剛剛講的公共意外責任險"},{"start":139.07,"end":153.316,"text":"在辦全國性賽事的時候就是一張保單那很多我們的學生選手在參賽的熱身也好參賽的當時都沒有受到保障第二個你沒有規定綜合性的協會比如說高中體總大專體總體育總會等等有比較好一點點除了公共意外責任險之外還有意外險還有團體傷害醫療險但是我也必須跟次長您說"},{"start":166.221,"end":169.346,"text":"公共意外責任險加上意外險加上團體傷害醫療險即使是有比較好一點點還是讓我們參賽的選手"},{"start":178.442,"end":178.602,"text":"何欣純議員"},{"start":199.668,"end":223.08,"text":"保障都不夠都要回歸到選手個人及他的家庭來承擔所有後續的醫療跟復健的負擔這個我覺得不合理啊因為沒有學生選手哪裡來的國手我們今天在談國家代表隊的選手國家代表隊的選手都都是從基層學生選手一級一級的晉級"},{"start":225.222,"end":252.589,"text":"不斷的去參加比賽他要奪得名次他才有積分他有得獎他才有出頭天的一天他才能夠成為國家代表隊的選手可是我們對基層的學生選手的保障是如此不足所以我們看到在現實狀況下很多的學生選手啊他還沒達到他的目標的這個國手之前啊他可能提早結束了他的選手生涯"},{"start":254.773,"end":274.814,"text":"我覺得這對台灣的體育實力還有對國手的培訓來講是一大傷害所以我有召開記者會也謝謝陳培宇委員還有羅美玲委員還有莊瑞雄委員跟蔡議員有跟我共同提案我們國體法的修法不只要把國家代表隊的國手的一個權利義務的保障納入法我還提議"},{"start":277.517,"end":277.918,"text":"所以請次長跟署長支持好不好"},{"start":292.603,"end":320.593,"text":"謝謝何委員那我想這個除了剛剛提到我們辦理一些賽事的部分有這個公共責任險或有團體這個保險之外那對於學生的部分如果具有學生身份他本來就有這個全民健保還有包含學生團體這個保險這個我都知道問題是保障嚴重不足我們呢高強度的單項運動的選手跟國手他們參加比賽可能受到的傷害不是我們的全民健保或是學生團保可以支應的"},{"start":321.713,"end":342.403,"text":"所以針對委員的這個提案的這個部分那基本上體育署這邊也會那麼來做先期的一個研究跟評估你先期的研究跟評估要多久然後會比照看看這個是不是學生團體保險不能夠用政策保險不過這裡面因為涉及到的包含了這個學生運動員的定義還有包含了這個他跟那個"},{"start":347.145,"end":347.325,"text":"何欣純"},{"start":364.522,"end":364.662,"text":"何欣純"}]}},{"id":"150886","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150886","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec3131a6968ec10bbc15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a659b49dd81b19eb4c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:50:06 - 12:55:21","影片長度":"00:05:15","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":315,"end_time":"2024-04-03T12:55:21+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T12:50:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":0.25034375000000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.872843750000001,"end":15.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.93971875,"end":17.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.42909375,"end":17.445968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.96909375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.20534375,"end":18.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.37784375,"end":21.563468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.563468750000002,"end":21.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.91784375,"end":24.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.12846875,"end":24.347843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.938468750000002,"end":26.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.452843750000003,"end":34.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.16909375,"end":36.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.81846875,"end":37.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.814093750000005,"end":39.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.39596875,"end":43.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.87221875,"end":49.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.01096875,"end":47.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.98096875,"end":50.892218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.26346875,"end":53.440343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.11534375,"end":55.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.072843750000004,"end":57.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.41846875,"end":61.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.844093750000006,"end":66.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.67034375,"end":70.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.75409375000001,"end":76.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.23409375,"end":78.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.37721875000001,"end":81.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.17846875000001,"end":114.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.52784375,"end":114.57846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.98346875,"end":123.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.55596875,"end":126.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.35284375,"end":128.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.59284375000001,"end":131.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.95534375,"end":133.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.02284375000002,"end":134.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.89596875,"end":135.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.67221875,"end":136.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.44409375,"end":138.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.57034375,"end":141.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.32534375,"end":142.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.79346875000002,"end":143.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.67096875000001,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.45471875,"end":151.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.88909375,"end":162.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.85346875000002,"end":166.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.24534375000002,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.25284375,"end":176.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.84721875000002,"end":183.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.49596875,"end":185.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.41971875000002,"end":186.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.03971875000002,"end":188.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.55846875,"end":192.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.13159375,"end":194.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.63346875000002,"end":196.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.01284375,"end":198.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.46409375000002,"end":199.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.13909375,"end":212.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.89221875,"end":226.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.59034375000002,"end":229.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.70784375000002,"end":232.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.04096875000002,"end":233.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.42471875,"end":235.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.82534375,"end":236.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.56346875000003,"end":247.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.66721875000002,"end":252.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.75096875000003,"end":254.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.74221875,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.92721875,"end":260.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.02409375,"end":261.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.41596875,"end":272.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.91659375,"end":275.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.46909375,"end":274.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.53659375,"end":292.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.94096875,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.97471875,"end":279.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.30784375,"end":281.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.00721875,"end":288.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.96409375,"end":295.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.93409375000005,"end":297.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.92534375,"end":298.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.57909375,"end":302.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.85284375000003,"end":308.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.29909375,"end":310.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.88971875000004,"end":311.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.99909375000004,"end":312.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.24784375,"end":316.36971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.139,"end":26.468,"text":"主席 各位委員 還有請次長好 政務委員好好 次長好 辛苦了今天早上"},{"start":27.509,"end":50.255,"text":"我們正好在教育文化委員會要準備遷到要質詢的遷到的時候發生大地震這個花蓮是最嚴重那這個花蓮女中目前所知道的花蓮女中的這個校舍嚴重的這個歸類損壞這個是真的是非常嚴重"},{"start":54.301,"end":81.134,"text":"還好沒有倒塌,這個是花蓮女中的一個校舍損壞的情形。這個部分因為這個是國立的,所以是教育部主管的。所以除了教育部主管的這個部分之外,包括地方政府縣立的,無論是國中、國小,不曉得目前裡面的資訊如何。"},{"start":82.533,"end":102.763,"text":"跟委員報告我想在地震發生之後我們都有那個通報校門通報系統所以各縣市跟各學校的部分都會進到我們校門通報系統來做一個通報那我們會整體了解各個學校的一個災損的一個情形如果是屬於這種比較重大性的災害的部分會同會勘然後對於運用那個重大災害的相關的一個這個"},{"start":110.147,"end":110.367,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":134.043,"end":141.998,"text":"運動選手最基本的從國小到國中、高中到大學"},{"start":143.983,"end":172.32,"text":"這個整個到後來整個GU的選手的一個協助都是要基本上GU的體育人才的就學跟深愛輔導基本上都已經比較制度化了都在進行之中但是對於這個我們GU的這些選手的權益像這個就業的部分"},{"start":173.325,"end":185.993,"text":"我很多的朋友、我們這一代的這些體育的老師普遍都認為現在的就業的輔導不以往"},{"start":188.715,"end":189.155,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":210.561,"end":222.345,"text":"伴侶GU運動選手轉任運動教練工作已經輔導81位優秀運動選手成為教練然後這個再甄選31名優秀運動選手成為教練這樣的機制當然還要繼續做但是就因為這個是已經"},{"start":237.608,"end":238.088,"text":"馬委員我想"},{"start":263.462,"end":272.373,"text":"不是所有的體育的老師都是正式的我想目前的確有體育老師有專業教練也的確有代理代課老師的存在"},{"start":273.467,"end":275.768,"text":"時間的關係,是不是把這個正式老師的跟業聘顧的"},{"start":299.759,"end":300.14,"text":"鄭天堂委員"}]}},{"id":"150885","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150885","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecaf43cf60b3744d9c15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a66814c5f3722842645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"12:19:43 - 12:30:49","影片長度":"00:11:06","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":666,"end_time":"2024-04-03T12:30:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T12:19:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.38534375,"end":3.7772187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.164718750000002,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.43346875,"end":17.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.90159375,"end":17.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.89721875,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.79721875,"end":73.89284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.28096875,"end":80.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.49096875000001,"end":86.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.73471875,"end":91.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.26159375,"end":91.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.57346875,"end":124.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.14221875000001,"end":130.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.18784375,"end":146.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.13034375,"end":160.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.95096875000002,"end":168.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.02159375000002,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.42721875,"end":193.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.50284375,"end":197.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.43471875,"end":214.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.10284375,"end":223.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.79346875000002,"end":250.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.60784375000003,"end":250.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.26596875,"end":284.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.66159375,"end":350.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.48659375,"end":353.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.37221875,"end":358.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.82721875000004,"end":381.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.70971875000004,"end":385.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.13971875000004,"end":386.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.94534375,"end":425.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.51284375,"end":443.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.65784375000004,"end":458.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.47409375,"end":465.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.42659375000005,"end":474.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.36596875000004,"end":509.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.89221875000004,"end":513.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.4865937500001,"end":538.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.02284375,"end":571.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.0303437499999,"end":578.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.40034375,"end":580.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.7165937500001,"end":583.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.9778437500001,"end":587.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.39909375,"end":600.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.20034375,"end":590.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.97159375,"end":596.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.03846875,"end":610.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.6572187500001,"end":613.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.90596875,"end":615.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.7322187500001,"end":644.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.7065937500001,"end":645.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.74846875,"end":652.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.79409375,"end":655.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.9622187500001,"end":663.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.89346875,"end":664.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.3953437499999,"end":666.15471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.69,"end":2.352,"text":"張委員致詢完畢之後,我們就立即處理臨時提案。謝謝。"},{"start":18.962,"end":44.666,"text":"市長跟署長好那因為我一直都非常關心這個運動產業的一個發展那我想我就直接來切入主題就是說我們其實在這幾年我們一直在看今天我們這次看到那個體育署的報告發現就是說我們的運動產業好像很強調這個捐贈底稅跟黃牛票還有防堵機制那其實我蠻訝異的因為其實我們應該還有更多事情可以做也因為我們有更多事情可以做所以我們去年去中國還有日本去考察了"},{"start":46.427,"end":72.963,"text":"運動園區推廣的狀況想要帶回來台灣跟我們去做一些規劃那我想要了解就是我們在106年的時候三讀通過了這個運動產業發展條例那其中第15條就是有講說中央應該來協助直轄市或是法人自然來設置運動產業園區那我想要知道現在已經113年了這麼多年了我們有地方政府來申請過嗎"},{"start":74.592,"end":91.44,"text":"跟委員報告一下目前大概應該包含我了解包含有那個屏東的棒球園區啦國際棒球園區還有台中的足球園區都有跟教育部申請前瞻的經費補助我們現在只有兩個是嗎只有兩個是不是好那我想我們"},{"start":92.6,"end":92.64,"text":"張雅琳議員"},{"start":110.327,"end":113.55,"text":"為什麼只有兩個縣市?我們有沒有檢討過原因是什麼?是法規太嚴還是誘因不夠?我們有沒有相關的一些檢討方案?"},{"start":131.048,"end":146.134,"text":"這個部分基本上因為包含土地的所有權、管理權都是在地方政府所以地方政府本身要去做一些的評估適合的發展運動項目然後中央的部分會配合地方那麼一起來做一個補助跟建制處理"},{"start":147.202,"end":149.843,"text":"這個部分我們再跟縣市政府再來做一個努力看看是不是還有其他縣市政府有這樣的意願"},{"start":168.131,"end":187.375,"text":"好,那我們會後繼續討論這一題再來就是說其實我們也去日本我們也去日本考察了這個日本的奧林匹克學院博物館國訓中心、運科中心還有這個璞河紅磚足球俱樂部還有Red Tokyo Tower裡面的一個包含電競動脈AR的虛擬實境等等跟運動主題有相關的一個景點"},{"start":193.896,"end":213.599,"text":"這次我們在看到那個考察報告也有提到說就是說這個我們其實應該有一些產業化的思維要有這個企業導入要有完善的清訓體系更重要的是政府要來協助場地才有辦法來去支撐我們整個運動市場的一個需求"},{"start":215.151,"end":243.741,"text":"那我也發現說就是說這兩次的考察裡面也提到了都提到了青少年我們看他的遊戲項目其實也都非常符合青少年的一個需求那如果我們今天要發展運動產業基本的市場人口是很重要的嘛那我們是不是應該要從小開始培養才有辦法去讓他們從小開始一直持續的關注這件事情才有可能去支持我們的國家的這個運動產業所以我想請教署長我們考察的時候是有提到就是說一些發展的方向那目前"},{"start":244.521,"end":269.272,"text":"我們有沒有針對這個產業的落實上面有一些具體的規劃呢?報告委員目前我們在過去主要是著重在人才培育的部分跟實證場域就是說今天有一些業者他們像科技業者他們產生的一些儀器啦一些可以使用者端優化他們的運動的這個體驗的部分我們用在場域裡面去做實證那這部分目前是在做但是針對"},{"start":269.972,"end":270.793,"text":"上次有提到會跟經濟部來持續的學習"},{"start":293.414,"end":320.419,"text":"那再來就是說因為剛剛提到場地一個非常重要的地方所以我們其實在去年也合訂了優化全民運動與賽會環境計畫那我們其實花了三分之二來打造一個安全的運動環境那我想就是說運動有非常非常多的好處對大人對小孩來說都是非常重要可是我也發現我們現在做的這些場地的形態其實非常千篇一律大部分就是籃球館啊籃球場啊桌球場啊游泳池啊大概就是這些項目可是我們也發現奧運的賽事"},{"start":322.739,"end":350.519,"text":"其實是隨著時代與時俱進他們其實越來越推進所謂青少年現在覺得好玩的東西大家可以看到就是說從東京裡面有什麼運動攀岩那接著還有衝浪那把2028年的洛杉磯奧運還有什麼邀請美式足球所以其實都是越來越多元化的去發展那我們是不是也可以有更多是屬於像這樣子的設施呢讓青少年可以去追求挑戰然後追求卓越超越自己"},{"start":354.795,"end":375.627,"text":"這部分我們是不是可以有往這個方向來去做一些規劃呢?報告委員那目前我們的公建計畫當然是由各縣市來提供他們的案子來做競爭的但是呢我這邊也主動也詢問一些縣市是不是比方說針對滑板的基地的部分訓練基地他們願不願意來乘坐那目前初步台南跟澎湖都表達"},{"start":376.507,"end":376.547,"text":"張雅琳議員"},{"start":393.639,"end":413.336,"text":"這個青少年的運動對小孩來說非常非常重要就是說因為他們需要因為現在大家都知道嘛他們有3C的文明病的問題啊可能網路生意的問題啊其實非常需要戶外的空間那包含在2030年的衛福部的兒童醫療與健康政策建言書也有提到現在的場地實在是太少了交通不便離家又遠所以他們其實非常難抵達"},{"start":414.497,"end":443.126,"text":"然後這些也會造成他們近視的問題所以呢我想要問一下就是說我們現在呢能不能有再更積極的做法例如說我的建議就是說我們現在可不可以做一個研究案去了解青少年到底需要什麼樣子的休憩空間或是運動的場館我們可不可以來做這樣子的研究然後來規劃相關的計畫去跟縣市政府一起來溝通一起來討論讓他們有更多的往這個方向去前進呢"},{"start":443.686,"end":445.548,"text":"那我想問一下就是說在這個我們這個計劃案這個這樣子的研究我們大概是什麼時候開始啟動呢?"},{"start":466.93,"end":492.675,"text":"從找到人然後提供寫計劃案出來到簽成過大概需要通常要1到2個月的時間好那這個部分我們就大概2個月之後我們就來持續的關心那我也希望今年可以相關的研究案出來我們就可以給地方一個清確的指引因為我看到你們給我們的回覆是說我們要考量各地的需求不同各地的政府應該要充分的了解而是一直都等地方的話真的這件事情是做不到的而是兒童的"},{"start":493.175,"end":493.195,"text":"簽竹計劃"},{"start":509.966,"end":537.245,"text":"申請的是18個其中有4個都還是過去就已經有在使用的那似乎離我們要增加更多的場地這個目標還是很遠那我也知道剛剛那個署長也有提到很多的場地在學校裡面所以我們現在到底有哪些具體的做法要來要求學校來把這個場地給開放出來不然我們剛剛一直在講說要有場地要有清訓體系可是就是沒有場地這件事情就是不會發生"},{"start":538.626,"end":563.763,"text":"這部分在各個學校的校長大概是第一個是免責的部分可能需要協助他再來就是他假日或夜間的管理人員這部分的薪資這部分可能在也要需要縣市以及當地的運動產業業者能夠一起來沿上看怎麼來協助那的確除了校園之外我們希望在校外在公園的部分我們現在找縣市希望跟他們談我們有找他們來座談說看看"},{"start":564.463,"end":580.494,"text":"在其他公園地方裡面有一些比較屬於小型的這樣運動空間的設立那這部分我們正在進行當中我想問一下那這樣子我們在學校這個空間裡面已經有盤點出來有多少場地了嗎有多少學校的場地目前有盤點嗎因為我們講的是千族嗎目標到底"},{"start":580.774,"end":581.154,"text":"張雅琳教育部長"},{"start":606.225,"end":627.492,"text":"我們請張雅琳來幫我們做研究,研究可能需要半年的時間研究是另外一件事情,我們當然要用三個月的時間來回覆給委員好,那最後一個部分就是說,因為其實我們剛剛講的是室內的空間那我們戶外是不是也可以規劃一些小型的運動園區像這個是在台北的內湖,那桃園也有類似這樣子的場地來去"},{"start":628.132,"end":628.252,"text":"目前﹐"},{"start":646.886,"end":646.986,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150884","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150884","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecdb5631403ba71df615c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a69b5a38827da00aad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"12:12:40 - 12:19:37","影片長度":"00:06:57","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":417,"end_time":"2024-04-03T12:19:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T12:12:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.4697187500000001,"end":8.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.16909375,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.919718750000001,"end":84.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.657843750000001,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.98409375,"end":98.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.96909375,"end":103.05284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.49159375,"end":103.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.50846875,"end":109.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.20784375000001,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.98346875,"end":115.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.32909375000001,"end":118.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.66159375000001,"end":126.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.21346875,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.61471875,"end":168.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.20284375,"end":184.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.39034375,"end":184.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.60971875,"end":184.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.96409375000002,"end":191.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.61721875,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.75971875000002,"end":220.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.87034375000002,"end":218.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.92471875,"end":221.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.49846875,"end":228.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.94034375,"end":229.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.61096875,"end":235.85909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.87596875000003,"end":235.90971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.16284375,"end":237.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.17096875000001,"end":240.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.98096875000002,"end":242.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.96346875,"end":243.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.36846875,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.49471875,"end":247.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.91159375,"end":251.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.87659375000004,"end":327.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.57471875000005,"end":329.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.02596875,"end":336.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.07534375,"end":362.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.83909375,"end":376.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.12409375000004,"end":376.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.78221875,"end":376.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.81596875,"end":385.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.15221875000003,"end":400.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.24846875000003,"end":390.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.56346875,"end":400.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.96409375,"end":413.08034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.43534375,"end":409.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.87409375000004,"end":409.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.67971875,"end":412.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.97471875,"end":415.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.99971875,"end":416.97846875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.372,"end":8.145,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們教育部林次長還有我們體育署署長是次長跟署長謝謝"},{"start":10.163,"end":18.228,"text":"市長,你在2010年的時候,體育署一直叫做體育委會,那時候訂了一個振興棒球運動的一個計畫,裡面也訂了一些不同屬性的國際賽,並且加以分級。我們在2019年,體育署就拉了棒協跟職棒聯盟去簽訂了合作的一個協約書,明確化了整個國際賽的層級,一級賽事的一個主訓賽,都是由職棒聯盟來負責。"},{"start":39.56,"end":66.903,"text":"那棒協呢就專注於二級賽事跟各級的一個國際賽事的一個主訓參賽本席倒是這樣認為啦早上聽了那麼多委員我相信署長也有聽到啦籃球也應該有相應的一個規劃一級的國際賽當然是派最頂尖的球員去參加如果是二級的國際賽甚至是窮士盃選訓是不是就應該以年紀比較輕的球員為主來當成一個培養接班的一個目的所以本席一開始我先請教署長好了"},{"start":68.164,"end":73.246,"text":"是否可以在短期之內邀請藍鞋及三個聯盟坐下來好好討論整個國際賽分級的制度來定出我們整個籃球國際賽分級國家隊主訓的模式?昨天藍鞋他們針對國家隊這個議題的九人小組的成立他們其實會中已經有初步這樣的一個議題已經產生了"},{"start":93.252,"end":101.541,"text":"出不有這樣的共識,所以他們接下來會往這個方向來進行,來討論。我問你,藍鞋這幾年的表現,你在看,你在做內行的,給你拍分數。60分。60分喔,你的標準太稀奇了啦,你這樣60分。"},{"start":110.307,"end":112.729,"text":"我認為大家能否聽到委員在這樣問的聲音?那真的要努力,我們說一句實在的,努力的空間真的實在是,不然這實在是,你是整個我們的籃球空前的一個盛況,可是整個"},{"start":130.494,"end":143.917,"text":"談到整個國家隊的一個主訓的一個模式我想就一定要提到上次保險的一個問題了就上個月我們那個一起的公聽會裡面目前有一個初步的一個解決的方案就是說根本上要解決這些問題其實你就是要往這回到團體協約去簽訂署長一國一國啊體育署有沒有主動去找藍協跟各個聯盟公會一起討論團體協約的一個簽約"},{"start":152.659,"end":167.845,"text":"有,那在昨天主要是第一次的預備會議啦,就是說我們也請中華職棒來提供他們過去的經驗,來以及我們政大也會林教授來協助法律專家,來告訴他們這個事情怎麼談,如何談,期程怎麼抓。阿當時可以簽嗎?"},{"start":169.226,"end":172.748,"text":"您不夠積極啦,你像我早上聽你的答詢,你一直講說那不屬於是僱傭關係,所以不採用...這的確是因為他這個法律專家告訴我們一個..."},{"start":194.262,"end":200.887,"text":"嚴格講起來但是雙方還是有協議只是說不叫團體協約我告訴你 我也是法律專家我也是法律專家不一定要有雇傭不一定是承攬跟雇傭的關係才可以去簽團體協約或者說是參加協議你有上對下那本來就是可以啦我們一起來促成把那個心態給轉變啦我們用這個精神去做不是要跟你爭辯啦大家都希望他能好嘛我看早上問的都不同黨派啊是"},{"start":221.602,"end":229.471,"text":"大陸你這個整個運動這個一個國力嘛不管是誰來執政這個部分齊省我們有來主導啦是這個你真的一哥好嗎不要拖啦他在拼你開什麼玩笑我們是給你們搭橋樑耶你們是屬住耶"},{"start":238.243,"end":239.604,"text":"藍協對外說明6月會想辦法讓國際法來修法通過"},{"start":259.074,"end":265.922,"text":"其實不是這樣啦其實行政院的那個版本已經送到立法院等待內政委員會的一個排審啦那從藍協宣稱要跟兩位洋將談規劃以後上週末又多了一位夢想家的洋將有意來規劃多了這麼多的一個選擇其實球迷五味雜成啦"},{"start":277.794,"end":281.938,"text":"本席也不斷在提醒我們體育署儘早去延伸規劃相關的一個政策可是到現在我真的還是沒有看到本席看到體育署跟藍協都是被動在等待那個修法 我也算不上你的心態"},{"start":300.014,"end":300.194,"text":"發言委員．"},{"start":330.034,"end":330.294,"text":"國庫可以減輕負擔"},{"start":354.005,"end":362.813,"text":"這另外一方面又可以更合理的國際賽事的一個分級制度避免過去你看看戴維斯阿提諾各種大小比賽的情況所以署長戴維斯是2013年合會為例你看看那1個月2萬的美金阿到培訓期間15000個月美金阿未來規劃人數如果增加的話你會繼續再補助嗎"},{"start":376.957,"end":382.379,"text":"幫委員這部分我們不會全部補助我們還是依照國家隊的需求不是每一位想要規劃我們全部都會來進行這樣加油這個啦我這以前國中都太高級了我現在在關心哪級啦就是看不下去啦你那個齁國際版還沒有修高端規劃難度還在但是有一條舒遜的規劃可以走你看你現在藍鞋的國際賽事分級每一年半窮是非就是一級賽事啊"},{"start":400.486,"end":400.706,"text":"莊瑞雄委員"}]}},{"id":"150883","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150883","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec50918ba4ab74113015c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6e305d6428d5d57a05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"12:00:42 - 12:12:24","影片長度":"00:11:42","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":702,"end_time":"2024-04-03T12:12:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T12:00:42+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.548468750000001,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.36659375,"end":16.230968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.70721875,"end":58.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.04471875,"end":20.348468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.570343750000006,"end":58.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.73909375,"end":59.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.77284375000001,"end":58.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.68409375,"end":70.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.20721875,"end":62.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.03346875,"end":68.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.56846875000001,"end":104.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.29409375,"end":71.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.53784375000001,"end":122.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.56034375,"end":167.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.57721875000001,"end":122.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.29159375,"end":182.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.04034375,"end":258.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.75409375,"end":232.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.90596875000003,"end":233.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.99471875,"end":269.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.35596875000005,"end":278.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.62596875,"end":270.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.13971875000004,"end":276.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.55284375,"end":350.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.03096875,"end":367.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.24346875000003,"end":389.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.36159375,"end":368.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.47971875,"end":368.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.69159375000004,"end":432.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.35159375,"end":434.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.30909375000005,"end":453.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.54659375000006,"end":454.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.58034375000005,"end":464.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.97159375,"end":463.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.29596875000004,"end":470.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.03346875000005,"end":473.83034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.48471875,"end":471.68721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.22284375000004,"end":476.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.26471875000004,"end":478.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.33596875,"end":502.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.63346875,"end":491.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.52346875,"end":493.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":502.33221875000004,"end":506.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.70346875,"end":503.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.58471875000004,"end":559.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":559.97721875,"end":589.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.7234687499999,"end":564.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.50846875,"end":605.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.5690937500001,"end":606.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.37471875,"end":630.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.9197187500001,"end":639.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.71159375,"end":640.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.42034375,"end":640.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.53846875,"end":640.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.6059687500001,"end":640.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.9265937499999,"end":648.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.7353437500001,"end":656.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.76409375,"end":660.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.5522187500001,"end":663.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.5390937500001,"end":696.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.85971875,"end":664.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.66034375,"end":698.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.63909375,"end":700.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.18721875,"end":702.1828437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.08,"end":9.989,"text":"主席張偉請一下林次長"},{"start":19.996,"end":37.163,"text":"市長,非常感謝在上次我們對於台灣女足的協調會當中為女足的精進的整個系列做了一個非常具有里程碑的決議所以我們在今年2024年就會從6隊增加到8隊當然2025年的目標就是再增加2隊10隊在打世界盃之前我們大概希望能夠擴增到12盃"},{"start":45.947,"end":46.307,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":70.612,"end":71.733,"text":"這部分感謝次長,次長你可以回座了"},{"start":90.245,"end":90.525,"text":"大師的賽事還是壯年賽事?"},{"start":109.682,"end":128.247,"text":"主辦單位寫出來的Mr.Games,體育署這個部分不知道有哪些作為是讓我們在明年那個賽事雙北舉辦的這個Mr.Games能夠有好的成績,而且能夠有好的口碑?目前我們分兩部分,一部分當然是報名的部分,我們就是在我們的國際組這邊也協調我們也幫"},{"start":131.828,"end":154.094,"text":"雙北舉辦了幾次的會議來找各個協會甚至我們現在也希望他們各個協會來協助來找其他鄰近國家的這個他們的國家的單項協會這部分來鼓勵他們的選手能夠來報名參加那在國內的部分我們目前的體系是希望透過一個腦力激盪來看看怎麼樣去鼓勵我們的縣市能夠針對他們縣市裡面的民眾來做一個比方說培訓營我們來給他補助來鼓勵他"},{"start":159.856,"end":160.076,"text":"主席林倩綺議員"},{"start":187.753,"end":193.876,"text":"這個賽事當中是不是也可以有一些角色那因為您剛才講到我們會您這邊已經開始運作期待其他國家一起來參加這個賽事那我之前的這個質詢也感到很很遺憾那今年的賽事今年在澳洲的Master Games我自己的項目沒有我沒有機會去參加但是呢我期待明年這個我是一定會報名的所以在"},{"start":212.063,"end":232.535,"text":"明年這個賽事我期待不僅是很多國家的人來參與那我也很期待因為我們是地主國嘛那在這個賽事裡面我們如果能夠有很好的成績那我想這個不僅是對城市空間有很大的影響那對於整個全民體育應該也是有很大的一個正面的衝擊讓我們能夠再往更好的方向走"},{"start":233.095,"end":233.295,"text":"林倩綺議員"},{"start":258.899,"end":260.22,"text":"謝謝委員提點,我想這部分我們也因為今天第一次聽到,我想我們就來後續跟兩位執行長來討論看看,能夠怎麼樣新創的想法來進行。"},{"start":278.593,"end":294.521,"text":"好的,謝謝署長所以就請把這個部分列入那如果可以集大家一起來討論那我想應該會有更多的腦力激盪你就不用一直滑腦筋其實有很多事情要處理了還要處理這種content的內容或許我們可以找多一點不同面向的人一起來討論"},{"start":295.862,"end":299.243,"text":"接下來我想有個單項協會的問題是不是可以跟署裡面這邊做個討論因為在我們參加單項協會有時候為了精進自己的一些技術所以我們也很想知道規則或者是更專業的一些看法那我講我的項目我先不講我的項目好了"},{"start":318.249,"end":336.429,"text":"在單項協會資訊上的公佈我不知道署裡面有沒有一個概念因為我經常在比如說我現在已經拿到某一項的C級教練跟C級裁判那我當然就想要再往前能夠拿到B級甚至到A級的國家裁判可是我就發現有一些協會他那個公告"},{"start":337.571,"end":353.432,"text":"這個B級或者是甚至A級的這個教練的這個時間常常是我看到了我經常在查詢但是常常我查詢到了他可能要把過期了要不然是這個禮拜週末要辦那或者是都沒有但是你就發現協會說他今年辦過了"},{"start":355.034,"end":365.509,"text":"所以這個部分我可以先請教請問協會那個署裡面有沒有請行會在公告這些資訊上是不是有一定的日期或者是有某一些規定能夠讓這個資訊能夠充分透明"},{"start":368.78,"end":388.671,"text":"這部分我們其實過去是有要求協會要設立專區,比如說教練的專區或裁判的專區,那這部分落實我們這邊再來做進一步的了解。我想這部分,我想您的聲音我也聽到了,那這部分我們再來要求協會,因為網站的製作設計很多元,每一個協會的網站的確他們的邏輯都不太一樣,但這部分我們再來強化。"},{"start":389.901,"end":419.353,"text":"好的謝謝署長所以或許是不是可以規定他們某一些項目比如說現在要考B級了那當然B級之前還有一些見習那如果協會這邊也可以協助所謂見習其實我們自己當時也很主動的直接問協會可是呢協會有的時候當然他很專業知道每一個地區的一個美感有的時候你就不好加入那有的時候你就沒有機會加入所以你要考B級可能這些條件都要符合有的時候還很困難所以是不是這個部分也可以請署裡面注意"},{"start":419.873,"end":440.748,"text":"另外就是我剛才講的那個公告的時間是不是署裡面也可以給一個時間序比如說你至少要考B級裁判B級教練你是不是給個30天或45天或60天之前就要讓大家知道目前是至少一個月啦對要至少一個月嘛那就是不要讓我們看到說什麼又過期了那尤其是B級跟A級也不是常辦"},{"start":441.408,"end":443.67,"text":"目前澎湖有一個算是小而美的一個國家的一個算上面當地一個訓練基地"},{"start":461.084,"end":464.345,"text":"提出了一個國家帆船封帆基地的一個想法那這個預算有了嗎還沒有提案所以還沒有這筆預算"},{"start":478.39,"end":478.95,"text":"如果他們現內有一個這樣的共識的時候我們一定會來支持的"},{"start":506.596,"end":506.796,"text":"主席"},{"start":536.976,"end":559.766,"text":"其實我發現很多體育人常常在媒體上出現所以或許署裡面可以多一些視角然後為他們退役之後的一些路開一些系列然後讓他們或許可以展開另外一個不同的人生那從他們在過去這麼優越的體育項目當中我相信他們的人生第二春應該可以有更多的可能"},{"start":560.226,"end":588.68,"text":"報告委員,我們在國訓中心的確有定期開一些課程來吸引我們的國家隊選手來參與,比如說烹飪,或是其他的演藝或相對性的。那在學校的部分,其實我們目前在大專校院,體育相關科系的老師們其實也有意識到這個危機,就是說我們的學生其實畢業之後,不見得都能夠往運動產業去,所以我們也在鼓勵學生能夠雙修、輔系或分流的部分,這部分我們的確在大專校院也注意到這個問題了。"},{"start":590.861,"end":605.01,"text":"請體育署再多投入更用心一點,讓這些選手不僅在比賽的時候,退役之後也有很好的出路。接下來我要問一下原名專班,宋規思今天有派員是吧?"},{"start":608.406,"end":610.027,"text":"現在這邊有沒有一些相關的資訊可以提供給本席了?"},{"start":630.985,"end":647.317,"text":"是,跟委員報告,上次委員詢問之後,部裡面有提供一份書面的說明,回覆委員辦公室。那,後續。那個,但是是針對我講的這兩個嗎?就是就業的情形跟這個他學習的項目還有在職場上的一個關聯性。"},{"start":649.773,"end":663.922,"text":"是,那後續是不是我們再跟委員辦公室這邊再來做進一步瞭解,如果...好的,就至少這兩項嘛,就是我要瞭解人民專班他在這個執行上的一個效度是是,那如果有不足的部分我們會再來補充值好的,謝謝"},{"start":665.023,"end":684.02,"text":"那最後我就一個呼籲那個國際司跟可能仲貴司是不是應該要開一個會針對本席在3月5號也提到的這個國際專班依照國際專班的規格設計原民班所以在原住民的部分我期待不是一直大家一直對我們的這個印象是某一種樣態所以"},{"start":685.842,"end":686.002,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150882","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150882","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec2ef7f267906cc0b615c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6a7b53669de06e42e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:49:33 - 12:00:37","影片長度":"00:11:04","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":664,"end_time":"2024-04-03T12:00:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T11:49:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.08159375,"end":0.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.73909375,"end":8.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.910968750000002,"end":11.978468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.978468750000001,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.04596875,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.704093750000002,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.97284375,"end":79.39409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.58409375000001,"end":82.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.35596875,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.30909375,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.41409375,"end":124.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.68659375000001,"end":124.70346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.70346875000001,"end":124.72034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.72034375000001,"end":133.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.14096875,"end":135.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.97596875000002,"end":136.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.02659375000002,"end":136.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.11096875,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.14471875,"end":150.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.87659375,"end":161.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.01409375,"end":164.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.03909375,"end":168.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.40471875,"end":173.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.80971875,"end":194.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.03846875000002,"end":198.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.93659375000001,"end":198.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.95346875,"end":236.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.83034375000003,"end":204.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.50534375,"end":204.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.86284375000002,"end":243.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.33471875,"end":247.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.77284375000002,"end":255.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.02034375,"end":261.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.03659375,"end":319.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.43721875,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.83346875,"end":265.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.08221875000004,"end":324.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.08159375,"end":327.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.33034375,"end":325.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.78159375,"end":328.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.52409375,"end":327.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.75596875,"end":336.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.57846875,"end":331.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.82221875000005,"end":337.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.93596875000003,"end":338.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.91034375000004,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.66971875,"end":341.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.50909375000003,"end":344.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.26409375000003,"end":346.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.65159375,"end":352.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.36409375,"end":372.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.56971875000005,"end":359.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.61409375000005,"end":376.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.71471875000003,"end":377.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.49096875000004,"end":377.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.91284375000004,"end":380.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.92971875,"end":380.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.64659375,"end":383.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.81909375000004,"end":387.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.00409375000004,"end":400.00221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.03221875,"end":398.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.49596875000003,"end":401.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.40721875,"end":416.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.97534375000004,"end":410.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.72971875,"end":418.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.63221875000005,"end":437.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.40221875000003,"end":432.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.96284375000005,"end":437.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.88659375000003,"end":438.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.96659375,"end":451.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.51346875,"end":452.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.39471875000004,"end":454.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.26784375000005,"end":468.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.68784375,"end":470.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.74659375000005,"end":469.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.47221875,"end":481.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.78721875,"end":482.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.22971875,"end":484.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.61784375,"end":485.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.20409375,"end":485.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.69346875,"end":486.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.16596875000005,"end":486.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.53721875,"end":487.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.28784375000004,"end":493.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.91159375,"end":504.55971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.88034375,"end":515.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.37659375,"end":530.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.58659375,"end":521.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.56096875,"end":524.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.00721875,"end":534.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.84221875,"end":550.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.20471875,"end":535.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.38784375,"end":554.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.3115937499999,"end":559.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.57659375,"end":558.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.2009687500001,"end":602.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.6372187500001,"end":641.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.41659375,"end":638.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.1628437500001,"end":647.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.80409375,"end":642.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.61784375,"end":662.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.7734687500001,"end":649.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.35784375,"end":662.5772187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.1,"end":6.723,"text":"謝謝主席我請教育部次長請次長"},{"start":12.166,"end":16.148,"text":"市長今天早上有地震發生所以我要想要就我們教育部針對我們學校災情通報協助相關事項跟您簡單幾點詢問因為今天發生地震之後我們台北市我的母校金梅女中高三因為我們立學樓鋼筋裸露的情況所以高三今天是停課的"},{"start":33.616,"end":47.552,"text":"臺北市大安區民主失業中學也是宣布停課﹚我們看到花蓮女中也是傳出相當嚴重的災情﹚所以我想就我們過去我們的慣例都是有相關通報機制﹚目前為止我們收到多少學校有災情的通報﹚"},{"start":48.373,"end":48.393,"text":"吳沛憶議員"},{"start":64.747,"end":64.907,"text":"吳沛憶教育部長"},{"start":87.751,"end":107.406,"text":"那今天還有發生的事情是在我們的這個臺北市因為捷運停駛像文湖縣甚至停駛到10點那新北環狀縣更是發生有軌道樑柱位移所以到下班前可能都無法恢復通車所以今天人事總署有宣布說上班上課若有因災情導致大眾運輸暫停的情況拆請應該要彈性的來去處理那"},{"start":116.152,"end":116.312,"text":"吳沛憶教育部長"},{"start":136.619,"end":140.641,"text":"市長我是建議因為像今天有好幾則錯誤訊息的發布讓大家以為說以為要停班停課結果後來發現是錯誤的訊息所以在災難當下訊息的正確性"},{"start":151.198,"end":152.379,"text":"接下來我請體育署署長 次長請回"},{"start":173.387,"end":177.308,"text":"委員好署長我跟你一樣一直以來都很關心我們台灣運動產業的發展那其中我們職業籃球也是我們非常重要新興的職業運動聯盟所以我想請問我們現在台灣的職籃有兩個我們是在哪一年的時候我們開始職籃聯盟啦聯盟哪一年開打"},{"start":195.354,"end":200.737,"text":"抱歉我這部分哪一年我目前沒有掌握到分別我們在兩個聯盟分別在2020、2021年來成立來在當年的年底來開打是那為什麼要問這個問題呢所以代表我們現在台灣的職業運動是有包括籃球項目的是吧是"},{"start":214.204,"end":221.831,"text":"但是在我們體育署的運動統計每年年度出版的運動統計當中關於運動產業總共你們只有第87頁到91頁總共只有3頁就講完了運動產業為什麼呢仔細一看體育署的運動統計年報當中運動產業只有職棒"},{"start":238.908,"end":254.815,"text":"署長您剛剛說我們直籃聯盟都開打了直籃當然是我們運動產業重要項目怎麼我們體育署年度的運動統計年報當中完全沒有提到直籃的發展沒有任何統計數據呢"},{"start":257.062,"end":262.383,"text":"報告委員這部分我們再跟我們受委託的單位來要求他們做更正了署長這趕快去更正這個明年的年報還沒出來嘛這個趕快資料更新因為這個是我們政府的基礎資料基礎統計非常的重要會讓大家質疑說難道我們體育署對我們運動產業的專業性以及對於食物的了解度怎麼會跟現實落差這麼的大"},{"start":281.627,"end":285.389,"text":"關心這個事項 署長你也很清楚藍協這段時間有引發了不少的爭議那我認為有爭議其實正常但是我們要如何來處理爭議爭端處理機制就是我們現在在談的重要我們必須把它制度化"},{"start":299.855,"end":303.176,"text":"我們要有方法來解決爭議但是呢在藍鞋最近召開的會員大會上面又發生重大的中意第一個竟然藍鞋表達說未來我們的球員代表國家隊出席賽事的表現要依表現來懲處署長你認同嗎非常不認同那但是呢藍鞋當然要表達那是監視個人的其中一個發言不代表藍鞋的藍鞋絕對"},{"start":329,"end":333.721,"text":"沒有做成這樣的會議結論那當天的這個會議組長你有沒有去看過會議紀錄當天藍鞋的會員大會李市長有沒有出席沒有出席會議的主席李市長沒有出席藍鞋的會員大會可不可以召開"},{"start":349.026,"end":375.606,"text":"基本上按照規定是可以有代理啦但是我們還是希望按照藍鞋張誠的內規當理事長因過沒有出席的時候他可以來指派代理這代理不是隨便哪一個人都可以代理必須要是常務理事但是據報導指出當天會議上面主持會議的人是不是秘書長當天會議是由哪一位常務理事來代理主持"},{"start":377.666,"end":399.55,"text":"蘇長,你手邊有資料嗎?我們要不要去了解?當天是秘書長在做主持所以當天的會議主席是秘書長啊?秘書長能不能夠擔任藍協的這個會員大會的代理主席依照藍協自己的章程內規是不行的喔所以,蘇長,你們要去趕快了解好不好?3月24號開會到今天已經好幾天了,你們趕快去了解喔"},{"start":404.731,"end":426.469,"text":"包括連會員大會本身會議的有效性都會引發爭端了引發爭議了難不怪球員難不怪社會外界對於藍鞋沒有辦法信任這部分我們會去函給予警告啦好那署長接下來我就要講我剛剛講的我們有信任的問題那最重要的核心其實是來自於我們應該台灣的職業運動員啊"},{"start":430.913,"end":431.153,"text":"主席,我們的直攬團體協約今年會不會簽訂?"},{"start":455.665,"end":470.718,"text":"報告委員,我們今年會針對國家對選手的權益的部分由我們現在委託一位鄭大來的林教授來進行一個公版的部分但是針對細節所謂的雙方,因為他不是顧主跟球員的關係實欄團體協議,今年要開始談嘛,對不對?不算是團體協議,算是雙方的協議,因為他不是顧主跟球員的關係但是呢,精神是一樣,那這部分談,我們正在主導他們談的期程,但的確這個談啊,需不需要"},{"start":482.208,"end":504.307,"text":"有公會﹖有當然﹖是否需要有球員代表﹖一定要﹖要嗎﹖對那昨天啊這個招開了一個藍協招開一個跨聯盟的9人小組藍協對外發布的聲明說這9人小組的代表名單是你們體育署建議的而署長請問這9人小組當中哪一位是公會代表"},{"start":504.895,"end":526.964,"text":"報告委員,這部分主要是針對國家對他的整個徵召的制度的部分去做討論但是呢,跟我們之前一個團體的協議就是兩不同的事件不同的事件,但是我認為精神應當是一致的所以署長我希望你能夠再去研議,也去聆聽各方的意見我們希望既然你是專案小組嘛"},{"start":527.944,"end":534.489,"text":"就是需要有成員的代表性我們希望能夠有代表性的球員來參與藍鞋這跨聯盟的小組針對主訓的討論好不好好 署長那再來要跟你討論的是我們運動產業的這個界線這個畫面上我們的外援啦啦隊署長你認為這屬不屬於我們"},{"start":551.445,"end":551.485,"text":"委員：吳沛憶"},{"start":570.831,"end":579.458,"text":"市署是是還是不是?廣義上或可歸屬?那請問狹義上可不可以歸屬?我這邊要告訴你的是運動產業的定義非常的重要因為過去我在地方議會你們體育署的對運動產業的定義會影響到我們地方政府對於我們運動產業每年產值的評估甚至當出現爭端的時候像台北市當年火爆團的這個事件"},{"start":596.992,"end":601.296,"text":"就發現說這到底是運動產業還是這個教育機關要管理的這非常多的模糊地帶會導致於我們管理上面無所適從像我自己的街舞老師像很多街舞教室他們開教室之後要申請補助的時候文化局說不屬於他們的體育局說不屬於他們的教育局說不屬於他們的"},{"start":617.631,"end":617.751,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":637.463,"end":637.583,"text":"好 謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"150881","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150881","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901eca08435deebf3966b15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a622eaed387c6193b25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"11:39:20 - 11:49:28","影片長度":"00:10:08","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":608,"end_time":"2024-04-03T11:49:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T11:39:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.2122187500000001,"end":3.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.69284375,"end":5.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.39721875,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.750968750000002,"end":12.552218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.957218750000003,"end":17.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.66534375,"end":18.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.99846875,"end":19.403468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.60159375,"end":21.816593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.69409375,"end":37.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.86159375,"end":31.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.767843750000004,"end":46.352843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.52159375,"end":63.210968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.08846875,"end":64.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.13471875,"end":66.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.34534375,"end":73.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.92659375000001,"end":74.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.16284375000001,"end":77.52096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.16221875000001,"end":82.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.97159375000001,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.30909375,"end":104.45346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.71909375000001,"end":115.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.28721875000001,"end":119.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.24846875,"end":120.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.88971875000001,"end":121.61534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.71659375,"end":121.75034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.75034375000001,"end":123.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.03284375000001,"end":153.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.69471875000002,"end":162.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.33471875,"end":169.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.75221875,"end":166.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.09721875000002,"end":172.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.94909375,"end":176.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.16409375,"end":201.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.33409375000002,"end":194.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.58221875,"end":198.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.65346875,"end":207.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.08284375000002,"end":211.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.53784375,"end":213.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.85409375,"end":218.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.18659375000001,"end":223.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.67534375000002,"end":224.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.09721875000002,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.48471875,"end":228.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.06596875000002,"end":235.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.16721875000002,"end":244.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.50846875000002,"end":239.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.27971875000003,"end":249.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.35971875,"end":247.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.66721875000002,"end":255.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.55221875,"end":278.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.49159375,"end":265.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.59909375,"end":280.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.42596875000004,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.86346875000004,"end":290.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.83784375,"end":292.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.41971875,"end":294.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.76971875000004,"end":296.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.86221875,"end":315.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.72846875000005,"end":316.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.36971875,"end":326.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.66346875,"end":342.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.61909375000005,"end":359.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.57659375000003,"end":343.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.97471875,"end":371.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.82096875,"end":378.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.72284375000004,"end":388.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.56096875000003,"end":388.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.71284375000005,"end":388.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.78034375000004,"end":388.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.94909375000003,"end":408.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.27971875000003,"end":413.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.86534375,"end":415.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.08846875,"end":415.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.61159375000005,"end":458.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.94346875,"end":425.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.50784375,"end":459.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.26721875000004,"end":478.43721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.27096875,"end":462.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.65471875000003,"end":464.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.64971875000003,"end":469.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.20159375000003,"end":474.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.43721875000006,"end":518.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.93721875,"end":536.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.8584687499999,"end":538.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.3728437500001,"end":543.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.62534375,"end":543.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.8447187500001,"end":550.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.5234687500001,"end":606.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.24034375,"end":604.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.7590937500001,"end":608.5265937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.543,"end":6.685,"text":"我們有請次長跟署長好,我們請次長跟署長部委好,次長、署長好今天最大的事情就是地震請問次長,地震跟體育有什麼關係?"},{"start":23.663,"end":45.263,"text":"地震跟體育,基本上當然遇到地震的時候,我們必須要緊急做一些應變上的處理。平常有運動,平常有好的體育,基本上應該是比較能夠更適應這樣一個狀況。對,像有一支廣告片說,地震為什麼還不跑?他說,腳麻是怎麼跑?對不對?有記得有看過那個影片嗎?"},{"start":46.684,"end":50.888,"text":"請問次長,全民運動,我國全民運動是誰在負責?是教育部體育署在負責我們再請署長你覺得這是你在負責嗎?"},{"start":67.543,"end":74.908,"text":"這部分目前的確是我們體育署這部分那目前是交由全民運動組來協助這是一個組一個組在負責OK那個署長這個你下一頁在"},{"start":85.314,"end":102.544,"text":"這個3月11號的時候體育署有到我們的委員會來做報告當時我就提出終身運動文化的這個臨時提案然後這個你們3月20號就回文了就回文了這個6頁"},{"start":106.485,"end":114.09,"text":"6頁封面封底這一個就是目錄這扣除裡面的內容只是附帖110年台灣愛運動2.0的計畫幾乎一模一樣"},{"start":122.408,"end":143.782,"text":"請問這是什麼意思?報告委員,這部分是我們全民主這邊我在3、4次跟委員來拜訪之後呢那我回去也跟全民主這邊來做要求那的確他們當時時間是不太夠但目前的進度大概是說我請全民主要跳脫運動愛台灣這種概念因為特別在委員提到的在壯年這一件"},{"start":144.022,"end":147.264,"text":"提到我們在壯年運動會這件事情我們體育署該有一些作為的部分我們也都在進行"},{"start":163.853,"end":166.054,"text":"這部份的專題報告很抱歉,我們又會改進這部份的專題報告很抱歉,我們又會改進"},{"start":178.34,"end":205.485,"text":"那對於這個 這個其實是對藐視國會喔就對委員所提出的質詢不當一回事那我不曉得這什麼意思啦就是好像我們本會不重要還是 包委員這部分我一定在強力的要求當中呢所以需要再進一步溝通那這一點 那個好再來提到全民運動這個一來我們的人口這個"},{"start":208.677,"end":229.887,"text":"這個高齡的運動比例只有大概三成但是我們的不健康愚民就臥床長達到八年以上這臥床跟運動應該有關係吧是解決臥床應該最好的不是長照吧應該是運動那這個是體育署的當者的責任嗎"},{"start":235.407,"end":246.576,"text":"這部分我們會再跟國民健康署一起來合作那你們以前有嗎?有在討論這事情嗎?目前我們還在自己先在做腦力激盪的用來腦力激盪他們也不找你,你也不找他這樣我們現在先找專大學者來"},{"start":250.759,"end":253.201,"text":"現在好像體育署剛才在談的全民運動目前似乎沒有列入到我們國家體育政策裡面"},{"start":279.676,"end":292.244,"text":"那這個叫壯世代的運動其實在各年齡層當中比例最高他們非常希望運動 熱愛運動但是他們運動都在做什麼呢"},{"start":293.539,"end":314.851,"text":"散步、走路、健走其他的沒有什麼選擇都超到一半的人所從事的所以人民只能自求多福啦這麼龐大的 重在現在55歲上有800萬人他們每天都在走路這樣子那這個國家這個置之不管"},{"start":316.871,"end":317.211,"text":"市長有發現這是一個契機嗎?"},{"start":343.259,"end":371.112,"text":"因為我們要發展這個體育發展部要升格為部一定要有這個眼光沒有這個眼光就不用升了那就是目前整個的就是空中羅格式的空中羅格式就是沒有根嘛沒有根就是我們沒有全民運動那選九村就成為孤島我們能夠培養的招募的選手有限然後選手得了獎以後"},{"start":372.653,"end":387.829,"text":"沒有一個市場沒有市場沒有消費者那國手就會淪為孤鳥那整個的就是就是靠國家培養少數的精英沒有完整的這個就是一個空中羅格式的體育政策"},{"start":388.79,"end":414.282,"text":"目前看起來是這樣報告委員我們在從很多年前從打造運動島到後來的全民這個運動愛台灣我想主要的目的也是希望到我們的各縣市能夠鼓勵我們各個年齡層的人族群來參與運動那目前的確有在做但是呢的確它的比例呢還不如預期那這部分的確有這個共識是有這個共識那我們今年也是希望到村裡認證這件事情來"},{"start":415.783,"end":442.702,"text":"大家會看到高齡者不僅是散步、跑步而已可以有這麼多彩多姿的國外很多的項目而且這個不僅可以發展健康產業、文化產業這是國力壯世代是一個很重要的關鍵那你可能會覺得你的經費不夠去跟衛福部要"},{"start":443.602,"end":458.745,"text":"衛福部的社福預算今年已經到了八千億了就是都做長照做什麼其實如果從積極的雅健康這邊把它撞起來的話事實上我們那邊是可以減少了國家的資源就可以重新分配是嗎"},{"start":459.306,"end":476.438,"text":"報告委員我想這部分對我自己來講個人來講當然不是錢的問題是我們的同仁這部分在腦力這方面他從來沒有接觸到這樣的觀念我很感謝委員特別提到這樣子的觀念帶給我們所以我們目前正在開始除了運動在台灣之外我們希望能夠更積極地把產業這一塊帶動起來"},{"start":478.559,"end":502.683,"text":"所以一起努力這個也不僅是這裡就是我們長期一直很局限的我們的視野跟眼光那這也是剛才提到了這個壯世代擁有三分之二財富熱愛運動但是沒有產業沒有選項大家要怎麼樣的去賺不要什麼事情都靠國家什麼東西要國家養選手國家養整個市場是非常龐大"},{"start":506.624,"end":506.924,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":519.028,"end":537.857,"text":"所以現在有一個契機來了就2025年世界壯年運動會在雙北舉行那其實上次我就在質詢這件事情也跟這個署裡面的結果署裡面的回應非常的冷淡那這件事情跟他們無關"},{"start":540.035,"end":540.215,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":565.818,"end":589.853,"text":"這個就是世界壯臉運動會35項各縣市的合作明年也是進入臺灣這個超高齡社會所以各縣市都非常重視這兩個議題交叉起來是做全民運動的最好契機來推廣所以請體育署要提出一個計畫跟雙北怎麼樣跟他們合作怎麼支援"},{"start":591.534,"end":592.174,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150880","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150880","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecf97e5f88604cd9996f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a633a4a5ff57c3d22b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:38:15 - 11:43:44","影片長度":"00:05:29","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T11:43:44+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":329,"start_time":"2024-04-03T11:38:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.236593750000001,"end":54.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.891593750000006,"end":120.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.48471875000001,"end":129.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.74909375000001,"end":132.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.90034375000002,"end":181.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.17971875,"end":185.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.41971875000002,"end":226.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.08409375000002,"end":235.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.79159375,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.28846875000002,"end":267.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.39409375,"end":289.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.50471875,"end":327.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.77721875000003,"end":328.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.82784375,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.77284375000005,"end":329.36346875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.211,"end":0.392,"text":"委員發言"},{"start":7.25,"end":29.28,"text":"好謝謝主席各位先進各位來賓大家好那我是陳培瑜那我很開心今天可以來參加這個公聽會事實上人工生殖法從2007年修法到現在已經有將近17年的期間可是我們也知道其實2007年的修法其實也沒有實質的條文討論其實只是把相關主管機關做一個更動所以我覺得到目前為止真的是是時候討論這個修法的事情那我要先說我的結論"},{"start":33.422,"end":33.582,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":50.006,"end":50.046,"text":"主席"},{"start":66.178,"end":66.358,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":83.352,"end":101.112,"text":"雖然存在生育子女的結果但不是透過人工生殖技術的治療讓不孕的人變得能夠自然生育另外一方面這句話的立場其實也抹煞了完全抹煞同志配偶以及單身女性使用人工生殖技術生育子女的可能性"},{"start":101.753,"end":102.174,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":120.575,"end":149.558,"text":"除了在今天的會場我相信後續會再開啟很多的討論我們必須要站在這樣的立場去思考後續我們要提的修法的版本或者是相關的權益跟保障那第一個我們要談一下關於同志家庭權益的問題台灣第一本同志會本是我翻譯的在十幾年前我們就注意到這個很重要的問題那關於同志權益其實在釋字78號的施行法裡面通過之後同性配偶可以結婚成家後續還有關於收養子女的權利也都透過修法有了保障"},{"start":150.339,"end":177.51,"text":"我們是不是可以再進一步來看連同讓女同志配偶可以人工生殖的技術和權利都可以在相關的法案版本裡面給予保障讓我國對於同志家庭權益的保障可以越來越完整這是第二個部分再來生育子女還有子女的生育自主還有子女的最佳利益這件事情我們辦公室當然也有我們的考慮那關於這個部分過去大家對於生育對於家庭的想像都一直圍繞在婚姻上"},{"start":177.99,"end":178.17,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":198.812,"end":203.236,"text":"我相信在法規上真的沒有必要做這樣的限制我知道目前有一些反對的觀點可能今天在現場是沒有的可是在很多反對的觀點上基於子女最佳利益避免他們一出生就是單親家庭"},{"start":227.056,"end":227.176,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":257.196,"end":257.296,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":268.404,"end":269.185,"text":"人工生殖應該以治療不孕為目的"},{"start":298.143,"end":326.868,"text":"而非作為創造生命之方法因此我國人工生殖的施行限於不孕夫妻所以未婚者單親同志等都無法要求做人工生殖這就是我一剛開始強調的如果你們繼續用這樣的立場來看相關的修法但是你們在書面報告上又說你們沒有持任何立場那我覺得這是非常非常大的矛盾後續在修法上請務必站在這個框架大家一起進行討論以上謝謝主席謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":327.849,"end":328.092,"text":"謝謝委員 下一位"}]}},{"id":"150879","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150879","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecb7b85258e594230015c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6b7ec3b665d161ee15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"11:28:13 - 11:39:19","影片長度":"00:11:06","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":666,"end_time":"2024-04-03T11:39:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T11:28:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.60471875,"end":6.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.181593750000001,"end":8.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.430343750000002,"end":80.23784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.87909375000001,"end":99.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.48784375000001,"end":101.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.37784375000001,"end":107.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.49096875000001,"end":120.68721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.40034375,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.17221875000001,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.44159375000001,"end":129.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.51284375,"end":132.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.11159375,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.80659375000002,"end":140.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.36346875,"end":140.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.24096875,"end":142.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.64159375,"end":147.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.36221875,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.80471875,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.50846875000002,"end":221.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.45659375000002,"end":225.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.21096875,"end":231.64034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.38721875000002,"end":327.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.67596875000004,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.18221875,"end":338.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.86409375,"end":359.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.45159375000003,"end":469.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.05034375,"end":501.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.15221875000003,"end":493.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.89784375000005,"end":501.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.30284375,"end":517.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.0090937499999,"end":527.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.55659375,"end":524.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.8472187500001,"end":589.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.33971875,"end":620.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.71471875,"end":633.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.07284375,"end":623.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.96159375,"end":634.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.2778437500001,"end":655.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.0678437500001,"end":657.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.54409375,"end":662.08784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.626,"end":0.846,"text":"萬美玲議員"},{"start":30.609,"end":30.649,"text":"賴清德總統"},{"start":56.617,"end":79.99,"text":"選舉的期間他有提出來說要來成立體育運動發展部那他說每一年要投入200億的預算那未來可能我們就會升格為部了那我想先請教一下次長那後請教一下署長那現在我們對於馬上就要來升格成為運動發展部相關的原額預算的增加法規的修正現在準備到什麼地方"},{"start":81.171,"end":100.712,"text":"委員報告一下,我想體育署要升格為體育運動發展部,我想這個是準中等當選人的一個政見,教育部當然也都持續的在關注,同時也會配合行政院的修法進度來配合辦理。來,署長"},{"start":102.418,"end":128.692,"text":"我們現在針對我們要成立運動發展部那現在準備到哪裡了?報委員因為總統還要到520才上任目前我們沒有接受到任何的指示有關於要做升格的這部分所以這邊是不是容許我們等到520之後由行政院這邊來做指示我們再來協助所以現在完全沒有準備目前在我們的行政體系目前沒有接受到這方面的指示那運動發展部會成立嗎?"},{"start":129.551,"end":145.949,"text":"目前我們沒有接受到這樣的指示所以你也沒有被徵詢到有沒有可能成為首任的這個運動發展部的部長完全沒有完全沒有有沒有期待沒有也沒有因為不是我的職權所以不是你的職權所以一旦如果成立了之後假設有徵詢你會願意嗎"},{"start":148.41,"end":176.19,"text":"如果國家需要的話我會盡力來對付很好很有gas那但是呢我想任哪一個這個職務倒是其次重點是在這個職務上我們能不能把這個事情做好這才是最重要的那我們來看一看就是體育改革大家都希望但是真的是把他升格了就是組織在到升格了之後那錢變多了之後就可以真的把我們的體育上很多的事情改革好了嗎我們來看一看我們大家都知道我們的數位部"},{"start":177.09,"end":200.121,"text":"當時數位部要成立的時候各界報也很大的一個這個寄望那所以它整個總預算其實也是高達到218億那人員之多人員薪水之高可是我們看到上路來一年八個月了我就以這個數位部來看不管是在這個自動安全啦詐騙啦這個數位產業等等我們沒有看到任何的成績啦所以呢我以數位發展部希望"},{"start":200.521,"end":201.784,"text":"鼠黨這個地方未來我們如果升格成這個運動發展部之後是不是能夠以數位發展部的這個狀況來引以為戒"},{"start":211.547,"end":221.995,"text":"委員會的這部分我們的確會如果今天上級有指示的話我們會針對各個層面我們來進行那個演繹那所以也會以速發布一直以來的這些爭議為鑒是嗎這部分我們還是依照我們體育署目前遇到的狀況跟未來可能會遇到的狀況我們會自己來做這番的演繹"},{"start":232.003,"end":248.33,"text":"我們就來看一下我們自己體育署的狀況那現在我們其實體育署我們每一年不管是體育署或者是運動發展基金國訓中心或者是運科中心的預算其實加一加大概也有135億左右那事實上我們說要投入200億但是135億其實當然有一段差距可是畢竟我們還是有100多億的預算可是這100多億的預算"},{"start":256.834,"end":256.994,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":278.187,"end":303.979,"text":"根據我現在調到的資料來看我們現在整個體育署補助我們各項單項協會在111年的時候大概18億多112年的時候大概16億多可是呢這個數字其實也是我們總預算大概一成而已也就是說你補助各單項協會的預算數是極少的那我們也知道其實單項協會跟選手是息息相關這是第一個第二個那就也很弔詭了"},{"start":304.599,"end":305.64,"text":"首長,能不能回答一下什麼情況?"},{"start":328.453,"end":347.143,"text":"報告委員我想在疫情之前大概是疫情的期間大概有執行率比較困難但是在去年的部分我想還有一個原因大概是因為我們的黃金計畫這部分也大力的來協助各個協會所以協會的部分他們把一些國家隊頂級的選手他們的賽事出國一地訓練都往黃金計畫來這邊來做執行"},{"start":348.604,"end":377.71,"text":"那這部分我們在今年的預算我們會來做一個微調那當然我們還是跟協會講他們在基層的潛用的部分還是要更投入而不是只有照顧我們的國家隊選手而已那當然所以我想在這個部分我們都知道其實這個單項協會這個部分那怎麼樣照顧到選手怎麼樣去發展這個單項我希望未來的這個體育署將來可能的這個體育發展部我們要在這個地方多用心一點否則我們不是說今天升格成為部"},{"start":379.61,"end":404.076,"text":"這個成績以後體育所有的問題就會自然解決了也不是有錢就能夠解決了執行這件事情很重要所以特別在這裡提醒署長那另外署長還有次長我想我們一起來關心一下其實我想我們的台灣之光相關的這些國手剛剛有提到這幾年其實在國外戰績輝煌所以我們其實任何的團體或個人的選手出去比賽其實就類似像作戰一樣也就是我們的戰士這樣子"},{"start":407.237,"end":433.064,"text":"但是我們來看其實我們的國家有沒有對待這些戰士有相對應該給他們相關的權益跟相關的保障你看我們的軍人如果因公受傷我們有撫恤那退休之後可能還有終身奉然後我們退輔會還會協助他們相關的救學救醫救養安置等等可以說是照顧得很好但是我們的國手本席的了解我相信您也一定知道"},{"start":433.564,"end":455.464,"text":"那常常在這個培訓的過程當中都是要拿家裡的錢然後為國家來這個比賽打球等等我覺得這個是他們真的非常辛苦而我們體育署其實沒有去照顧到的那甚至於我覺得在我們在體育賽事上不管他們是受傷甚至有更嚴重的事情發生我們除了一次性的服務不管是職業選手或者是這個球團"},{"start":457.085,"end":457.826,"text":"報告委員 這一部分當然也除了前一陣子的"},{"start":474.469,"end":474.489,"text":"好﹗"},{"start":501.423,"end":527.49,"text":"那那個署長我想請教一下那我們有沒有想要往這個方向走就是我們來研議來制定國家代表隊跟運動員權益保障專法我們有沒有想往這個方向走其實其他世界很多的國家其實大概都有這樣的一個專法來做更好的保障那你有做這樣的研議嗎我想在我們的國體法方面其實已經有相關的母法在是為我們往這個機制來制定不用去動盜修法因為法本身已經有給我們這樣的授權了"},{"start":528.411,"end":542.747,"text":"法如果有這樣的授權那我總是還在講我們怎麼落實去實施這才是最重要的好不好那否則其實有的時候不管是辦法不管是法不管是這個規則你制定了一大堆但是我覺得人為上面沒有很落實"},{"start":542.967,"end":543.267,"text":"巴黎奧運"},{"start":560.924,"end":588.872,"text":"連法國他國內的情報總局的局長都在示警說這個巴黎奧運有可能會變成恐攻的目標之一事實上其實各國人士也都很擔憂那這一點我們有沒有掌握說如果我們今天在那裡萬一真的不幸發生了相關的恐攻事件我們怎麼保障我們的選手那包括怎麼保障他的安全或者怎麼樣去撤退他們回來或者跟大使館之間的連結我們有沒有在這個安全上面做更縝密的研究"},{"start":589.392,"end":616.972,"text":"報告委員我們分兩個部分第一個部分是我們在體育署派對出去參加國際賽會都會有一個緊急應變的這個會議來陸續的進行來制定相關的SOP那第二個是我們在這一次呢法國當地在這個奧會呢也給各個國家成立一個安全觀那個安全觀目前是由我們駐外館的調查官來預計由他來擔任因為他在當地他跟當地的調查站跟當地的警政系統都有他的人脈在我想這部分也是"},{"start":618.513,"end":618.713,"text":"指揮部長"},{"start":634.874,"end":635.154,"text":"吳春成委員"}]}},{"id":"150878","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150878","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec3c5d788c532355d86f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a6303d0e6748036c985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:34:27 - 11:38:12","影片長度":"00:03:45","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T11:38:12+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":225,"start_time":"2024-04-03T11:34:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.05034375,"end":70.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.63596875,"end":143.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.27846875,"end":224.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.03784375,"end":226.40909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.17,"end":0.694,"text":"范雲委員發言"},{"start":11.876,"end":36.176,"text":"稍微我們各位委員跟各位學者專家大家好我想住院科技跟人工生殖那是當代相當複雜但是很重要的議題那我不止一次諮詢婦女跟性別團體後那大家目前的共識是懇切的希望立法院能夠優先處理單身女性及女同志配偶適用人工生殖技術的修法"},{"start":36.896,"end":54.601,"text":"涉及第三方女性身體的代孕制度希望能夠脫鉤確保有更多深入的討論因此我提出的人工生殖法修正草案聚焦在單身女性與同志配偶可以進行人工生殖因為人工生殖技術不應該再局限於不認得異性夫妻"},{"start":59.222,"end":80.092,"text":"如同剛剛很多委員講的應該納入單身女性及女同志配偶以消除單身歧視、單親歧視還有對同志的歧視2023年有調查顯示考慮動筋動卵的民眾中有八成知道必須經過人工生殖才能使用冷凍的精子或卵子"},{"start":80.672,"end":97.22,"text":"但是卻只有不到三成的人知道僅有不孕異性夫妻才能進行人工生殖那當然其中希望人工生殖的有許多希望生育的單身女性以及我們同婚已經通過五週年的女同志配偶"},{"start":97.6,"end":126.742,"text":"他們都因為現行的法規無法使用自己的卵子生育無法生育的家庭求子心切的願望的確必須看見只是我們看到現行草案的版本如果跟代理孕母相關的偏重在委託方的需求相對缺乏對代孕女性還有人工生殖子女的權益保障所以需要更多的討論來凝聚相關的共識才能確保"},{"start":127.643,"end":129.765,"text":"接受代孕契約委託的女性,在何種情況下可以終止她的認成?"},{"start":144.418,"end":149.08,"text":"女性懷孕所面臨的身體自主、身心健康甚至死亡風險目前相關的草案就是看起來缺乏完善的保障所以我想相關的討論必須要確保孕母的女性權益"},{"start":170.527,"end":189.904,"text":"最後大家都有談到就是兒童的權益根據聯合國的兒童權利公約兒童應該要有學童的認識權在現行的匿名捐贈的制度下孩子的身世告知該如何進行家族醫療史該如何追溯委託代孕家長死亡或離異時孩子的撫養權如何歸屬"},{"start":191.505,"end":204.86,"text":"以及若委託方及代孕方後來都不希望擁有小孩的時候孩子被強制送進某個家庭後續如何能夠確保兒童的照顧福祉我想這些都需要更多的討論才能夠確保兒童權益"},{"start":207.102,"end":207.462,"text":"公聽委員：范雲"}]}},{"id":"150877","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150877","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec41a7fbda99891648e1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a69d9045ad635f6ddf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:25:05 - 11:31:06","影片長度":"00:06:01","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T11:31:06+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":361,"start_time":"2024-04-03T11:25:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.262218750000001,"end":40.564718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.01596875,"end":61.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.43471875,"end":115.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.13096875000001,"end":143.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.49784375000002,"end":145.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.44284375,"end":193.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.61659375000002,"end":286.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.34471875,"end":295.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.20409375,"end":307.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.99971875,"end":320.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.41534375000003,"end":328.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.66721875,"end":357.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.40534375000004,"end":360.36284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.287,"end":33.704,"text":"主席各位與會先進大家好我想今天非常感謝我們的召委召開啟動國會改革立法院職權行使法相關法案的公聽會其實不管是剛剛從一開始本席在辦公室或者是說在現場聆聽各位先進的一個意見我想追根究底大家的方向其實還是趨於一致就是大家可能都某部分同意我們需要進行國會改革只是大家爭論的部分在於是怎麼改"},{"start":34.404,"end":61.52,"text":"還有說怎麼改會符合現況以及符合各自的一個想法或者是初衷我不想去談說每一次這個不同的黨派有做這個政黨輪替的時候就開始有各自政黨的版本大家也都看到過去我們在立法院這幾次的一個這個委員會的一個諮詢的時候也都有拿出過去之前不同黨派立場的版本但我只想提的是"},{"start":62.541,"end":87.951,"text":"我在2020年2月1號進入到立法院第10屆擔任藍營最年輕的立法委員及第11屆的委員的時候其實某種程度上我們心中都還是有針對五權分立的一個理想性我們希望中華民國是長治久安我們希望能夠建立一個可長可久的制度也因此過去我們認為說法令有所不足的地方我們也希望現在能夠慢慢的把它補齊"},{"start":89.091,"end":90.952,"text":"公聽會：洪孟楷公聽會：洪孟楷公聽會：洪孟楷"},{"start":116.172,"end":143.36,"text":"立法權跟行政權區域一致能夠立法權真正代表民意來監督行政權我想這是站在國家長治久安的一個方面來去做思考所以本期我們比較著重我自己個人比較著重在就是國情報告總統國情報告一個常態化以及行政部門來立法院備詢的時候如果說提供不實的資料偽證以及立法權是不是能夠有增加調查權的部分來去做精進"},{"start":144.594,"end":168.494,"text":"首先 總統的國情咨文常態化其實主要是補足於責任政治的不足從1996年開始的民選總統我們到目前為止 很多國人都會講是說行政院長是我們最高的行政首長但是大家都知道真正的權力是掌握在總統手上人民一票一票選出來總統但是總統在過去不管是藍營執政不管是綠營執政"},{"start":169.355,"end":169.515,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":194.71,"end":223.417,"text":"立法院我們最高的民意機關也就是向國人來去做一個報告至少要讓國人瞭解你的施政方向你的一個治國理念讓全體國人能夠好好的當作是人民的一個頭家能夠真真正正的來瞭解總統必須要帶領國家的一個方向另外我們也看到在過去期間其實行政部門很多時候變成是規避立法權的一個監督"},{"start":223.697,"end":223.917,"text":"主席"},{"start":241.243,"end":258.279,"text":"用政治鬥爭這四個字變成是行政部門規避監督的藉口就如同過去我們很常看到有一些時候政治攻防講不贏的時候只要扣人家紅帽子只要扣人家說你是中共同路人就可以規避監督或者就可以合理化自己的行為嗎?我不認同"},{"start":259.72,"end":285.843,"text":"也因此我強調的是如果說行政部門在立法院在接受人民的一個質詢的時候接受立法院質詢的時候有做不實的回應甚至是利用資訊不對等一個情況來去回答是是而非或說回答不正確的一個答案的時候當然應該要接受處分當然應該要負起相關的責任當然應該要有相關的刑責或是罰款來去做一個規範"},{"start":287.401,"end":289.122,"text":"公聽會：立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":296.334,"end":320.43,"text":"行政部門不願意提供相關資料的時候只要扣一個政治鬥爭的紅帽子政治鬥爭的大帽子難道就可以規避難道就可以掩蓋真相嗎所以最後我想三個部分這一些都是我們必須也希望能夠在這一次討論的時候把它給完善化建立長治久安的制度我還是再一次強調每每我在修法的時候都會提出"},{"start":321.511,"end":328.57,"text":"我們生活在一個不完美的世界但是我們可以利用修法的過程讓這樣的制度這樣的社會更加的完善而"},{"start":329.744,"end":331.445,"text":"公聽會．立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":359.075,"end":359.577,"text":"國會改革的法案謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150876","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150876","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec9ac568ae91826ff915c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a639d1813f657b559b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:17:43 - 11:28:05","影片長度":"00:10:22","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":622,"end_time":"2024-04-03T11:28:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T11:17:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":68.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.04971875000001,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.50471875000001,"end":73.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.02971875,"end":89.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.74659375,"end":92.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.58534375,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.42409375000001,"end":103.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.69284375000001,"end":112.04721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.20096875,"end":141.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.98034375,"end":135.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.59534375,"end":173.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":170.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.72534375,"end":181.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.56034375000002,"end":177.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.66096875000002,"end":183.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.70221875000001,"end":189.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.21659375000002,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.02659375000002,"end":191.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.96721875,"end":196.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.02159375000002,"end":195.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.20284375,"end":198.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.58221875,"end":200.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.61596875,"end":201.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.07534375,"end":202.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.86846875,"end":205.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.50534375,"end":204.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.26471875000001,"end":208.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.28534375,"end":210.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.83784375000002,"end":212.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.88409375,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.17034375,"end":219.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.98846875,"end":263.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.89471875,"end":251.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.12034375,"end":267.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.07784375,"end":273.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.32159375000003,"end":281.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.84471875,"end":274.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.86471875,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.74159375,"end":313.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.38284375,"end":317.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.00659375000004,"end":340.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.84284375000004,"end":350.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.79034375000003,"end":355.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.15284375000005,"end":377.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.28846875000005,"end":406.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.61471875,"end":395.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.53284375000004,"end":406.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.88721875000005,"end":408.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.65909375,"end":418.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.55221875,"end":422.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.66534375000003,"end":423.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.08721875000003,"end":474.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.63971875000004,"end":424.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.99471875,"end":480.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.10784375000003,"end":525.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.5522187500001,"end":554.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.85659375,"end":549.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.47596875,"end":554.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.59409375,"end":606.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.8559687500001,"end":606.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.9909687500001,"end":610.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.71596875,"end":614.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.70284375,"end":619.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.4953437500001,"end":620.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.7778437500001,"end":622.14471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.049,"end":4.992,"text":"今天我還是繼續追我之前問過的我們體育協會裡面的性別平等的議題應該署長會記得我去年就針對國民體育法第39條第4項3款希望可以明定特定體育團體的理事任意性別不能低於三成"},{"start":24.402,"end":49.521,"text":"後來教育部給我的報告就是說單項協會理事的女性比例我看到只有17.63%我的修法的部分我想署長這邊給我的報告好像覺得就是說目前比較沒辦法做到你們體育署有講到說在你們的努力下其實有進展你們的努力下就是"},{"start":50.842,"end":51.402,"text":"請問署長這是你們的分析嗎?"},{"start":69.993,"end":96.981,"text":"我們目前是先發言給各個協會要求他們在下一屆要選舉理事長的時候他們聘任的這些委員會的成員一定要女性一到三分之一以上至於理事的部分這邊我也覺得跟上一次會期上一次有跟委員有討論過我們樂於來在近期我們參加公聽會來跟協會這邊來做一個商討看看是不是在國體法的部分我們來做這樣的一個修正"},{"start":97.642,"end":126.573,"text":"那你知道我們不分區喔就是說憲法有保障一半的女性立委嘛那就是說這些女性立委喔包含這個趙薇跟我們我們都認真努力喔就是我想表現不輸男性喔所以我對你講這個女性意願低喔有一點懷疑啊不過這是你們的就是目前的評估喔那當然如果你認為現在修法似乎以我讀到的報告如果沒有誤解似乎還不需要或是不適宜是這樣嗎"},{"start":128.613,"end":155.921,"text":"應該說目前協會的反饋當然是覺得這方面的女性的參與的意願比較低但是我也是認同委員的說法我們就是來開公聽會然後往這個方向來修法這個部分我們是樂於配合的好那你們樂於配合的話我覺得還是應該要思考如何改善體育領域決策層級目前真的是就是說偏向單一性別了你問協會的話協會回應的人是不是現任的理事們"},{"start":156.761,"end":157.301,"text":"加成的比例多少?可以知道嗎?"},{"start":186.875,"end":214.939,"text":"加成比例太低的話就沒有誘因啊是是加成比例署長不知道是嗎目前是幾十萬啦但是這部分幾十萬可以來檢討啦那算的分數佔多少因為我們都知道這個比重大概每個可能佔你總體積分的百分之多少這個加成一般來講大概八分之一到四分之一之間八分之一到四分之一因為每個協會的工作有多少協會因為這樣子的加成然後得到比較多補助"},{"start":215.219,"end":238.737,"text":"目前的確是還算蠻消極目前的確需要更積極就是說如果這個加成沒有幫助的話就沒有意義嘛所以你的這個手段要真的得到鼓勵效果那你知道我們行政院就是性別主流化現在連就是所有的委員會當中喔連就是說過去比較難找到女性的都會陸續找到所以有個管控的一個鼓勵過程"},{"start":239.537,"end":240.118,"text":"多久內可以給我一個書面報告?"},{"start":265.168,"end":281.735,"text":"范委我們三個月我們來處理這件事情三個月 署長你要想清楚喔上次你跟我說的幾個月後來又跟我改成更久三個月可以齁如果真的很困難是會是六個月不過我覺得如果先初步拿出方法來我們先找專長協會來談我們三個月應該是可以先有一個自己的作為那三個月後所以我下一個會期會繼續追這一題"},{"start":284.716,"end":305.488,"text":"好 那另外一題也是跟體育署有關那你們的體育政策白皮書其中有一項非常好的目標國內目前鮮少針對特殊族群高齡者身心障礙者婦女兒童弱勢提供專用安全合理的運動休閒環境所以你們的目標要讓這些弱勢者參加合適的運動休閒環境署長你有記得有這項目標吧有"},{"start":313.473,"end":339.834,"text":"有,那可是你有沒有看到你們的報告執行成果,你有讀過嗎?署長范委員,我們的確在伸張的部分或是在弱勢的部分我們目前是透過學校體系希望能夠增加這樣的一個族群那我們在給各縣市的硬體設備補助方面我們同時也有在做這方面的要求不過目前的具體成效的確還沒有到我們理想的結果所以這部分我們持續在努力當中"},{"start":340.615,"end":349.062,"text":"請問你們有數字嗎?我們理最明顯的性別來講你們這個各縣市政府的統計裡面有數字嗎?他們使用這些運動休閒環境的"},{"start":352.34,"end":352.98,"text":"非學校的也是您這邊管的嗎?對不對?對"},{"start":377.487,"end":406.083,"text":"對阿所以是不是以後這個報告你要先有相關的數字統計那我們才能夠監督你否則我看完這一項完全不知道體育署關不關注這個然後這個目標到底有沒有要不然我們就是作文比賽了好不好那這邊是不是可以改善一下下一次我看到你們的執行成果表不要是這樣好不好那你們怎麼針對這個相關的弱勢族群使用的統計也給我一個書面報告好嗎"},{"start":408.746,"end":422.044,"text":"范委員,我們目前的一些這方面的統計在進行當中,但是好像是要五六月才會出來,所以是不是可以給我們半年的時間?現在到六月沒有吧?三個月可以吧?"},{"start":422.685,"end":422.845,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":437.602,"end":439.103,"text":"國際奧林匹克委員會11月公布最新的國際奧會基於性別認同及性別差異的公評"},{"start":453.157,"end":455.118,"text":"基本上我目前的做法就是依循國際的總會他們的標準來進行"},{"start":480.569,"end":501.136,"text":"那這樣非常好因為我並沒有針對卸相一一茶隊就相信你們那我也肯定你們這麼做可是呢我們辦公室跟你們所知的時候那就是看到你們有講到其實教練這個部分那是不是單向國際協會對於就是相關的就是性少數的選手參賽"},{"start":503.837,"end":506.039,"text":"請問署長一下您評估這三項大家都準備好了嗎?"},{"start":525.595,"end":552.672,"text":"報告委員在國訓中心的部分當選手有這方面的需求的時候我們在宿舍的一樓的確有這樣的所謂多元性別的友善的房間那教練的部分我們的確需要透過教育這一塊來協助那運動資源在準備這一塊我想這部分我們運科中心目前的成立我們這部分我們來努力那如果有不足的地方再請委員再給我們指導那這部分我們會再來因為國訓中心的執行長也是剛上任這部分我們會強力來要求謝謝好"},{"start":554.753,"end":572.729,"text":"那我想最後的事情是因為我們看到你們給我們的回應就擔心你們沒有準備好那當然就是您剛剛表達的有些部分準備好有些還不足對那針對就是多元性別能不能夠就是公平自在的訓練環境然後以國際奧運的標準來做準備那我想國際的賽事那國際奧運應該會是最好的一個就是相關的標準是不是能夠"},{"start":582.637,"end":584.839,"text":"那針對這個部分多久可以給我一個你們的規劃報告呢"},{"start":611.701,"end":611.841,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150875","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150875","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec437804bda6794eff6f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a6a5c55cc7bb6349ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:16:03 - 11:20:12","影片長度":"00:04:09","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T11:20:12+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":249,"start_time":"2024-04-03T11:16:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.08159375,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.19846875,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.227843750000002,"end":9.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.278468750000002,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.62846875,"end":154.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.47096875,"end":216.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.63846875000002,"end":246.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.11034375000003,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.97096875000003,"end":249.56159375000001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.23,"end":0.371,"text":"委員發言"},{"start":8.443,"end":8.723,"text":"主席"},{"start":38.443,"end":38.743,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":59.579,"end":70.153,"text":"主張代理育母的問題要跟單身女性女同志配偶的人工生殖需求不論是立法技術又或者是討論的範圍"},{"start":71.314,"end":71.474,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":99.2,"end":99.661,"text":"公聽委員．林宜瑾"},{"start":124.073,"end":126.775,"text":"2014年曾經爆發由准家長透過代孕產下13個寶寶的例子"},{"start":151.176,"end":178.288,"text":"這不是對女性身體血淋淋的剝削這什麼才是所以我當然不希望台灣也變成這個樣子那另外尋求代理孕母的過程中我們通常需要一個中介機構來進行媒合那利他行的這個代孕的中介機構絕大多數是非營利組織那部分的國家甚至會禁止這些中介機構收費那至於代理孕母的報酬問題"},{"start":180.289,"end":198.842,"text":"只允許利他行代孕的加拿大為例支付額外的費用給代理孕母就是觸法的行為讓代孕真正朝向非營利的發展這是我在現在的提案中沒有看到的設計再來就是代理孕母的權利保障"},{"start":199.802,"end":215.607,"text":"幫別人懷孕這件事情除了讓代理孕母生理上出現變化外我想心理的健康跟情感也是我們要高度關注的議題舉個例子就好一個手錶你大概10個月可能就有感情更何況一個生命在你的身體成長"},{"start":216.727,"end":244.006,"text":"日夜不分的跟著你10個月了那如果代理孕母後悔了那不願意把孩子交給委託者這可以被允許嗎我們是否可以考量考量過代理孕母這個制度對當事人的情感剝削那所以最後我想建議探討代理孕母的議題的時候請讓我們先看見女性的處境讓我們看見活生生的人不要只看見商品生產工具"},{"start":244.426,"end":246.313,"text":"以及消費者的權益以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150874","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150874","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec59cef983ca047ae115c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a66d28328d847b17735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"11:04:34 - 11:17:23","影片長度":"00:12:49","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":769,"end_time":"2024-04-03T11:17:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T11:04:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.3215937500000003,"end":7.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.20221875,"end":11.219093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.219093750000003,"end":11.235968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.235968750000001,"end":11.269718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.269718750000003,"end":11.286593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.286593750000002,"end":11.742218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.742218750000003,"end":26.254718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.42784375,"end":27.199718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.199718750000002,"end":54.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.17846875,"end":72.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.55971875,"end":116.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.14846875,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.28346875000001,"end":85.33409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.85659375,"end":129.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.88846875000002,"end":132.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.49971875,"end":136.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.66784375,"end":199.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.66721875000002,"end":141.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.51846875,"end":147.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.33659375000002,"end":151.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.79721875,"end":218.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.56409375,"end":207.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.41471875000002,"end":259.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.19409375,"end":225.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.28159375,"end":278.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.17346875000004,"end":277.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.55284375,"end":362.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.18096875000003,"end":370.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.80846875000003,"end":392.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.31159375000004,"end":434.59596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.62971875000005,"end":439.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.53596875000005,"end":450.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.07471875000005,"end":455.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.28534375000004,"end":451.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.85909375000006,"end":452.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.93471875,"end":460.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.80346875000004,"end":462.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.27096875,"end":464.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.41409375,"end":475.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.61909375000005,"end":533.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.0403437500001,"end":557.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.77971875,"end":580.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.6484687500001,"end":558.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.42034375,"end":562.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.0009687500001,"end":570.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.7334687499999,"end":602.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.60346875,"end":616.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.60534375,"end":627.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.4053437499999,"end":665.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.2390937499999,"end":692.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.1928437500001,"end":697.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.06534375,"end":698.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.6728437500001,"end":735.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.05971875,"end":755.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.6472187500001,"end":763.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.59534375,"end":765.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.0678437500001,"end":763.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.9240937500001,"end":767.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.7297187500001,"end":767.97846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.542,"end":7.643,"text":"謝主席先請次長林次長好次長謝謝陳委員好次長早是在這邊先請教次長我們113年度的動資券從今年的1月1號開始發放領取那統計到3月31號領取率只有19.3%還不到20%目前大概33萬多"},{"start":27.227,"end":28.187,"text":"市長你覺得這是什麼原因造成的?"},{"start":56.823,"end":77.357,"text":"我們都持續在做一個這個宣導,確實可能因為我們的部分的話一方面是都是在高中跟大學的這個學生,也許他們的運動習慣的這個部分可能也有在養成,我們宣導的部分也應該要持續在做一個展示。其實為了我們動資捐贈發放就是希望鼓勵我們的青年朋友們積極的參與體育活動或是觀賞賽事,那其實我們的年輕朋友們參與這個賽事參與運動的人口是很多的。"},{"start":85.643,"end":85.703,"text":"董事眷"},{"start":104.506,"end":105.207,"text":"請問次長除了盜領事件之外有沒有發現其他異常的狀況"},{"start":116.892,"end":121.516,"text":"除了倒領這個狀況之外,你還有沒有掌握其他違規的事件?目前的部分應該整體來講應該還算正常"},{"start":136.749,"end":159.882,"text":"那所以你們不知道說除了倒領之外還有什麼狀況其實以倒領的狀況你們是說你們因為啟動健保卡號驗證機制所以你們覺得說已經大幅降低盜用的這個案件的機率但是除了倒領之外其實動資券跟上個禮拜本席在詢問文化禮經營的這個部分有遇到相同的問題就是轉賣的情況是很嚴重的"},{"start":162.023,"end":162.884,"text":"提供交易記錄證明表示他不是在詐騙"},{"start":176.98,"end":178.101,"text":"市長,我想知道我們體署這邊有什麼作為?根據這種轉賣的狀況你們有什麼作為?"},{"start":199.853,"end":200.493,"text":"我們希望鼓勵我們的孩子們多運動、參加賽事,就是說我們希望他們有運動的好習慣"},{"start":225.489,"end":231.973,"text":"那這個部分呢 那就請我們體育署這邊針對這個東之鵑的違規狀況你們制定了相關的對策不要讓我們發東之鵑的這個美意付諸流水而且還有我希望說針對磊帆因為我們從16歲到22歲這個區間他們會連續領很多年"},{"start":241.798,"end":241.858,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":259.381,"end":275.072,"text":"是的,我們針對有轉賣的這種狀況,我們在那個QA上面大概都有一個警示性的提示語,那委員剛剛提到的是不是說如果他有到達比如說有那個轉賣的這種事實,經過查證之後是不是一定時間裡面取消他的這個發卷,這個我們來研議處理。"},{"start":278.595,"end":306.74,"text":"好 那就麻煩次長了再來我想請教我國代表隊代表我國參加國際賽事取役署這邊都有編列預算為我們的運動員來投保暫時失能險以及永久失能險那暫時失能險是以每個月兩萬以上來起跳會依照運動員的薪資來進行調整如果你的薪資高一點他給付就會比較高那最長給付是一年那永久失能險的投保額度是固定是在三百萬"},{"start":307.58,"end":335.569,"text":"其實我們現在其實交通非常的方便我們用信用卡去消費來搭乘公共的運輸禮品險至少都有一千萬、兩千萬那如果說我們運動員的永久失能險它的額度就只有三百萬對運動員來講真的是保障是非常的不夠那本席這邊也問過我們體育署從103年到112年這將近十年時間其實有投保失能險的國際賽事出險人數非常的低只有六人"},{"start":336.429,"end":341.252,"text":"目前杭州亞運大概有500多名的運動員團體的保費是250萬東京奧運有68名的運動員保障價格是30萬提署這邊有沒有說可以用我們出險率這麼低我們來跟保險公司來講說我們理賠提高或者說我們增加保費來跟保險公司這邊提高保險的額度"},{"start":363.203,"end":390.259,"text":"好,謝謝委員。我想對於選手照顧的部分,我們都持續來做一些關注。也謝謝委員的關心。我想針對這個私能險的部分,這個保單的部分的話,基本上是一個最低的保險的狀況。目前的部分的話,針對保險公司,因為有關運動員保險,目前國內的保險公司也有限。"},{"start":391.359,"end":404.704,"text":"因為其實運動員他在這樣的運動生涯他對自己的身體狀況他會非常的珍惜也非常的保護但是遇到一些意外的狀況這種他們也不願意發生如果說我們給他的保障這麼的低讓他們沒有安全感我覺得就是運動員在參賽的時候他有這樣的心理負擔他覺得沒有一個強力的後退一個保障他可能在心理上也沒有辦法全力以赴"},{"start":413.487,"end":413.887,"text":"市長您覺得?這個部分的話基本上巴黎奧運在即"},{"start":440.881,"end":463.639,"text":"對,我們除了保險之外,也有慰問金,對各組選手他有這個受傷啊,或者是有這個傷亡的這樣情況。市長,本席的意思就是說我們其實在保險的額度上,我們盡可能的去提高。當然希望都不要用到,但是萬一有不幸的事件發生的時候,他們有比較高的保障,好嗎?是,我們跟保險公司再來洽談。"},{"start":464.48,"end":466.861,"text":"國訓中心運動心理人員的相關問題本期關心運動心理人員這個議題以來其實我們國訓中心這邊的運動心理人員一直都沒有滿編大概都是在6到8位的這個員額"},{"start":480.99,"end":506.983,"text":"那運科中心正式營運之後甚至原有只剩下4位因為其中有3位從國訓中心到已經轉任到運科中心那還有1位他是先辭職然後再去那邊運聘那在運科中心是擔任研究助理以及助理研究員那我們看一下這個表格其實次長您看一下你就大概知道說為什麼他們要不要留在國訓中心而願意到運科中心"},{"start":507.563,"end":533.215,"text":"因為他們到運科中心的待遇加上教授學術的研究分最多最多加總起來可能是國訓中心的3倍那您覺得次長以這樣子的薪資待遇他願意留在國訓中心的機率應該真的是很不高大家都想要到運科中心那是不是我們也應該來演繹說適時的調高國訓中心的運動心理能源的待遇呢"},{"start":534.396,"end":550.758,"text":"跟委員報告一下,針對這個在國興中心所聘用的是專業技術人員那專業技術人員的部分是兩個中心的部分基本上都是一致的那至於運科中心這邊另外的部分還是比較偏重在"},{"start":551.938,"end":580.231,"text":"這個運科的研究研究研發的一個規劃當然這樣子這樣的人員他要從國訓中心到運科中心一定有他的專業在不是所有人都能過去但是相較於他如果有這個能力的時候他具備這樣的能力的時候他就不會願意留在國訓中心他一定會到運科中心那是不是說我們必須要在這個基礎點上我們先去考慮為什麼他如果有這樣的能力他有這樣的才能的時候他不願意留在國訓中心就是因為他的薪資制度"},{"start":580.791,"end":580.811,"text":"市長﹗"},{"start":603.6,"end":626.187,"text":"這個您這邊的說法我知道我也理解但是我今天在這邊跟您再一次的提起就是說這個薪資制度的這個部分你們就要去檢討那你同樣的他有這樣的能力他就馬上要他有具備這樣的資格的時候他就馬上想要到運客中心一定是因為國訓中心留不住他嘛那在這邊呢我還是要跟次長您提醒喔"},{"start":628.902,"end":645.43,"text":"運動心理人員跟我們運動員這個長久的這個穩定的這個默契他們是要一起培養起來的那對選手才能夠有這個一定程度的幫助那如果你是陌生的你已經就是說他們沒有去培養這樣的默契起來"},{"start":645.97,"end":665.483,"text":"其實有時候我們這些運動員遇到問題的時候他不見得就可以馬上得到他所需要的這些相關的幫助相關的資助所以說從培訓期間我們慢慢培養這樣的信任感起來我們就希望說是一個長期的是一個長期起來的信任感那如果你國訓中心一直留不住這些人才"},{"start":666.323,"end":682.314,"text":"那對我們的運動員相對的也算是一種資源沒有辦法給他一個強力的後盾所以這個部分我希望說次長我再次跟您提你聽到今天我再次跟您提醒了我們對於我們國訓中心運動心理人員不足的這個部分我們盡量趕快把人員補足再來我們這個整個薪資的結構可以盡快的來做研議做調整讓我們這些人"},{"start":692.561,"end":705.177,"text":"這些運動心理人員可以適時的提供給我們運動員他們所需要的幫助,可以嗎?是的,我想委員剛剛提到的關於國慶中心那個不足編的人數的部分,我們會盡快請國慶中心來聘組"},{"start":707.88,"end":708.841,"text":"主席你再給我20秒就好了"},{"start":737.475,"end":763.989,"text":"市長我這邊要跟您提醒今天早朝的這個強震全台搖晃不停到現在餘震都還不斷那請我們教育部這邊一定要趕快請我們當地的教育局處趕快盤點我們學校如果有什麼地方需要協助的請教育部這邊一定要全力來協助需要幫助的這個市長這個跟委員報告這個是我們長期來大概都有消音通報的一個機制所以大概我們都會立即去調查各個縣市這種各個學校受損的狀況如果學校需要學這個地方"},{"start":764.189,"end":764.911,"text":"請教育部全力協助"}]}},{"id":"150873","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150873","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec88df728a4e75f20515c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6f2f9785d3041bd335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:48:08 - 10:59:08","影片長度":"00:11:00","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":660,"end_time":"2024-04-03T10:59:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T10:48:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":5.127218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.45971875,"end":11.269718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.286593750000002,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.90596875,"end":17.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.93534375,"end":30.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.49221875,"end":18.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.405968750000003,"end":57.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.28784375,"end":75.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.42846875000001,"end":87.20721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.59534375000001,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.44721875,"end":91.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.99971875,"end":107.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.40221875,"end":116.06346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.50221875000001,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.12159375,"end":123.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.53909375,"end":130.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.84596875,"end":132.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.61784375000002,"end":145.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.10096875000002,"end":149.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.47596875000002,"end":160.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.33909375000002,"end":206.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.73284375,"end":181.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.34846875000002,"end":189.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.84096875,"end":189.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.50971875000002,"end":204.65721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.17596875,"end":206.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.19284375,"end":210.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.60596875000002,"end":209.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.83784375000002,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.94284375,"end":214.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.41909375,"end":235.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.42034375000003,"end":241.76534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.35596875000002,"end":251.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.17721875,"end":254.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.79284375,"end":258.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.14659375,"end":260.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.73284375000003,"end":261.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.25596875,"end":295.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.45846875,"end":261.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.38659375000003,"end":262.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.12846875,"end":296.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.18721875,"end":306.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.63721875000005,"end":308.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.50596875,"end":308.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.89409375,"end":309.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.53534375000004,"end":309.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.68721875,"end":309.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.72096875,"end":312.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.81784375,"end":312.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.47159375,"end":312.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.57284375,"end":312.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.39971875000003,"end":319.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.50096875,"end":313.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.12534375,"end":314.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.98534375,"end":319.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.01909375,"end":319.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.47471875,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.43034375,"end":360.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.26596875,"end":378.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.99284375,"end":381.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.49034375,"end":388.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.89846875,"end":389.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.77596875,"end":390.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.02034375000005,"end":392.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.99909375000004,"end":393.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.12971875000005,"end":395.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.46284375000005,"end":395.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.08721875000003,"end":396.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.57659375000003,"end":406.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.68471875,"end":413.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.89034375,"end":414.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.63284375,"end":425.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.24284375,"end":445.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.07784375,"end":430.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.78409375,"end":447.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.21846875000006,"end":447.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.52221875000004,"end":457.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.46159375,"end":457.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.49534375,"end":460.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.45721875000004,"end":465.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.91659375,"end":475.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.65284375000005,"end":486.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.95471875000004,"end":496.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.42159375000006,"end":499.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.34096875000006,"end":507.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.20471875000004,"end":561.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.3103437500001,"end":591.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.2509687500001,"end":600.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.3547187500001,"end":602.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.55284375,"end":602.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.9240937500001,"end":603.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.13909375,"end":605.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.35409375,"end":606.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.3159687500001,"end":614.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.84221875,"end":627.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.7278437500001,"end":619.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.9040937500001,"end":623.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.4272187500001,"end":623.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.77284375,"end":630.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.02534375,"end":631.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.24034375,"end":631.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.79721875,"end":639.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.15909375,"end":649.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.12784375,"end":654.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.17346875,"end":654.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.4265937499999,"end":654.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.1015937500001,"end":655.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.42221875,"end":658.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.1897187500001,"end":658.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.56096875,"end":658.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.77596875,"end":660.2822187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.349,"end":3.771,"text":"請委員在郭委員質詢完畢之後我們暫時休時5分鐘謝謝主席早安有請次長請次長"},{"start":17.203,"end":29.098,"text":"各位委員好早安我想這個東京帕運其實在上一次2021年的時候其實他們有特別提到一個口號就是We the 15他是一個平權的一個倡議的一個活動"},{"start":32.202,"end":51.163,"text":"就是說全球有15%是生長人士但是其實他們不特別但是我們希望用平等的一個角度來看那當然這樣子的一個風潮我相信其實台灣也應該要隨時要跟進啦那緊接著下來其實大家會注意到就是在今年的巴黎的奧運那同時在8月28號其實巴黎的帕運也開始要展開了喔"},{"start":54.286,"end":82.776,"text":"當然其實我們台灣也非常的期待就是有可以去參與已經有這樣子的一個入選的一些選手他們的現狀的一個狀況那我想要問的是就是在奧運選手他們的獎金其實我們可以看到就是同樣的都在獎金的部分我相信其實這個部分應該也有很多的這個帕運的選手或者是身上的一些選手他們已經喊了很多年了"},{"start":83.496,"end":107.212,"text":"但是我不曉得這個差別待遇到底到現在為止到底就是我們處理到什麼樣的一個進度了我們可以看到不管是這個奧運選手他們的獎金是根據這個國光體育獎章以及獎助學金的一個幫助的一個辦法那金牌跟銀牌還有我們的銅牌的部分我們光就金牌的部分先來看一下金牌呢他們是兩千萬"},{"start":108.453,"end":132.025,"text":"那另外呢在帕運選手的部分在金牌的獎金的部分其實相差了有5倍之多那更不用講到教練優良的教練的獎金差到20倍那我想呢其實很多的身上選手他們在受訪的時候他們也特別表示就是一直爭取已經爭取了快20年了那一直沒有辦法突破"},{"start":132.665,"end":135.066,"text":"是的,謝謝郭委員,就像剛剛郭委員提到的"},{"start":153.675,"end":180.933,"text":"有關亞奧運的這個選手的部分是依照國光獎章的這個相關規定辦法來給予這個獎助學金那這個帕運的選手呢基本上是依照另外這個帕運的這個相關的這個獎勵辦法來給予那因為那個亞奧運的部分跟那個帕運的部分或是亞帕運的部分基本上因為他的賽事跟他的那個性質分析雖然他的規模比較小"},{"start":181.853,"end":205.512,"text":"對,是的,雖然規模比較小,但是我相信其實選手他們在努力跟爭取的表現其實都是一樣的。那針對帕印的選手的獎金提高的部分,體育署也一直都在做一個研議,那目前大概應該是在6月份左右,大概應該會有一個初步的結果,希望能夠再把獎金的部分再做一個升級。"},{"start":206.232,"end":207.973,"text":"為什麼我們身上的國際賽事他們的成績這幾年這幾屆當中我們來看一下國際賽事的部分他們的這個得獎數獎牌數是逐年的下降"},{"start":233.065,"end":258.57,"text":"從2006年的總共69面的獎章2010年的26面的一個獎章這是亞洲帕運的部分2014年382018年是25面那其實總共在到上一屆的2022年的這個杭州的帕運最後剩下20面的獎牌那我在想說我們的培訓計畫是中間出了什麼樣的落差嗎?"},{"start":262.555,"end":273.87,"text":"雖然在獎金的部分目前還有一些研議的空間但是在對選手的照顧方面在我去年上任之前全民主這邊已經針對他們的亞帕的這個準備設立在整個縣市很多的訓練的據點"},{"start":275.131,"end":275.231,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":294.009,"end":318.041,"text":"您說的是帕拉基層訓練嗎?對,那這部分我目前在這一塊我也積極地希望在他們的照顧上面能夠享有跟其他亞運、奧運的選手是一樣的待遇這部分我正在努力進行當中所以培訓的基地現在是有增加的?是是這樣嗎?對我們來看一下最後一張好嗎?目前有30個據點但是國訓中心是第一次把帕拉的選手整個帶進來長期集訓"},{"start":319.542,"end":320.002,"text":"其他縣市呢?"},{"start":333.479,"end":358.8,"text":"報告委員這部分的確我們在頂尖的選手的部分的確有區域上他們發展的特色但是在學校端我們從去年開始也有運動輔具以及我們身障選手這部分的特教透過各縣市的特教的資源中心給予一些不管是體育老師的身心障礙相關的共融式教育的協助的教育還有運動輔具的協助我們在各縣市正在努力當中"},{"start":359.36,"end":377.995,"text":"既然體育署這邊提到了學校我們就來看看學校這也是我等一下要問的齁好您說在我根據了這個教育部的官網所公佈的111年的學年度其實我們學校的體育的統計從小學端一直開到國中端高中端的身障運動代表隊的項目看到"},{"start":379.242,"end":390.278,"text":"我把框列下來的話包含國小、國中以及高中的部分在國小的部分您有發現到有跆拳道對不對對國中呢目前沒看到好那高中呢"},{"start":395.509,"end":412.977,"text":"沒有好,也就是說我們一直在說要向下扎根那包含尤其是這些身上的體育選手他們要從小開始從基層訓練那從國小畢業之後他們在國小其實有受到訓練畢業之後其實到了國中我就鍛鍊了我要去哪裡"},{"start":414.079,"end":430.68,"text":"報告委員 因為111年這樣的情況所以我們從去年開始教育部也大力的推行共榮式這樣的體育課程的教育那加上剛剛講的運動輔具 那我們去年的執行率的確也還沒有達到我們預期的原因是很多學校他們第一次遇到還在"},{"start":431.101,"end":431.401,"text":"主席"},{"start":457.535,"end":486.305,"text":"要投入資源啊不是口號啊所以我們去年是有投入資源但是呢執行率還沒有到如果我有小孩他是身上的選手他在國小他是有可以訓練的地方然後他是有訓練的資源等到我的小孩如果國中到了國中我是沒地方你要怎麼樣培養沒有錯所以這部分我們去年體育老師我們目前應該有將近五成的老師已經有接受這樣一個教育我們在進行當中那私營體育的部分我們的推廣呢我們在加緊腳步"},{"start":487.978,"end":488.818,"text":"天花板有多高"},{"start":509.026,"end":524.995,"text":"運動潛力新秀2004年12月31號出生18歲以下以下的這五個條件當中的其中之一光第一個條件競賽項目當中客觀成績其成績最近一屆的聽奧要前16名的水準"},{"start":525.615,"end":534.725,"text":"我才能夠培育他第二聽奧的項目在世界排名前16名具有國際競爭力我才培育他第三身心障礙的記錄全國保持人聽障記錄全國保持人才有國際競爭力我才培育他第四"},{"start":545.778,"end":559.307,"text":"進賽項目當中具有國際性的綜合賽事潛力奪牌選手我才培育他第5如果他已經申請到了因為我得不到這邊的幫助我得到其他的補助你還不能申請你們會不會覺得這個天花板有點太高"},{"start":561.528,"end":582.397,"text":"委員我想這個部分還是要分為我們在學校的教育體系下給予我們的學生運動員包括身障選手的協助以及這個部分比較屬於頂尖的運動員的部分那我們在奧拉運的選手也是用類似這樣的方式來做一個補助那如果說我們因為這個畢竟還是比較屬於頂尖的部分我們可以更多的資源進去但是我們學校的部分也會"},{"start":583.758,"end":589.182,"text":"我個人是覺得到了今年3月當然我們的這些身上優秀的選手3月的時候我們才把他送去國訓中心對不對對8月就要比賽囉是會不會太晚"},{"start":604.178,"end":629.551,"text":"報告委員這部分我也努力很久的確我覺得有點晚但是我去年已經有陸陸續續有短期進去但這一次的長期我也努力了很久讓他進去了不要等到他們其實是在外部受訓然後他們自己家他們的家庭投入了大批的這個培訓自己孩子然後最後他得獎了結果我們體育署參觀然後才把他送進去我會努力來進行來協助這部分我想"},{"start":630.431,"end":656.347,"text":"順序錯囉是不是順序錯囉我們是不是應該先培訓才能夠從中選出這前16名或者是選出這些全國的代表沒有錯因為這樣所以我在去年給予帕總大量的支持以學校大量的支持這希望我們把集成的量整個把它做起來協助我們身上的選手能夠參與運動我們希望能夠真正看到因為帕運選手他們的處境更辛苦是好嗎沒有問題資源拜託謝謝謝謝好"},{"start":660.066,"end":660.23,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150872","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150872","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecdd6c770451d89d03e1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a6acf5f62b65bb2c8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:46:06 - 10:53:13","影片長度":"00:07:07","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:53:13+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":427,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:46:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.58721875,"end":21.614093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.035968750000002,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.824718750000002,"end":27.672218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.043468750000002,"end":30.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.827843750000003,"end":34.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.400968750000004,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.97409375,"end":42.252218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.64034375,"end":43.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.47971875,"end":45.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.60596875,"end":47.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.500343750000006,"end":53.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.351593750000006,"end":55.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.971593750000004,"end":57.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.21596875,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.329718750000005,"end":60.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.814718750000004,"end":61.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.143468750000004,"end":65.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.74221875,"end":66.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.61534375000001,"end":69.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.29846875,"end":72.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.76221875,"end":74.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.50034375,"end":75.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.05284375000001,"end":78.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.03971875,"end":82.14471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.41471875,"end":85.55346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.21159375,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.89471875000001,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.16034375000001,"end":98.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.12096875,"end":99.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.31909375000001,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.82846875000001,"end":108.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.72284375000001,"end":110.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.64659375000001,"end":111.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.24971875000001,"end":112.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.97534375000001,"end":113.80221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.24096875000001,"end":117.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.46409375,"end":119.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.33721875,"end":120.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.99096875000001,"end":124.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.02409375,"end":126.99846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.47096875000001,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.87096875,"end":133.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.56284375,"end":135.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.67221875,"end":136.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.12346875,"end":138.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.68846875,"end":141.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.33784375000002,"end":143.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.34596875,"end":159.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.97221875,"end":166.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.48596875,"end":167.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.34659375,"end":170.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.91971875000002,"end":172.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":173.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.82659375,"end":174.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.46346875,"end":177.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.65721875,"end":180.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.39096875,"end":183.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.59721875000002,"end":186.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.17471875,"end":190.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.73534375,"end":192.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.41846875000002,"end":193.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.48159375,"end":196.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.84409375,"end":198.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.90284375000002,"end":199.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.10096875000002,"end":204.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.97784375,"end":207.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.96471875,"end":209.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.36096875,"end":223.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.14784375000002,"end":225.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.81409375,"end":229.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.80096875,"end":231.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.01159375,"end":233.76659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.39096875,"end":236.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.80409375000002,"end":238.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.99784375000002,"end":240.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.82034375,"end":246.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.92909375000002,"end":247.68846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.12721875000003,"end":248.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.83596875,"end":250.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.41784375,"end":252.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.10534375,"end":254.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.92784375000002,"end":256.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.64909375,"end":257.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.17221875,"end":258.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.97784375000003,"end":260.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.74971875,"end":263.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.55096875000004,"end":266.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.38159375000004,"end":275.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.15659375,"end":276.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.05096875000004,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.33346875,"end":279.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.71721875000003,"end":281.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.72534375000004,"end":284.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.79659375,"end":287.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.25596875,"end":300.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.53659375,"end":306.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.59471875,"end":314.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.07034375,"end":316.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.82534375,"end":327.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.54096875000005,"end":329.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.81909375000004,"end":333.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.49346875000003,"end":336.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.12596875,"end":344.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.98971875,"end":350.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.82846875,"end":353.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.68034375,"end":356.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.15659375,"end":365.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.71221875000003,"end":366.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.46721875000003,"end":371.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.97284375000004,"end":387.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.39221875000004,"end":393.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.45034375,"end":397.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.01096875,"end":399.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.83346875,"end":424.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.40346875,"end":425.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.21346875,"end":426.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.25534375,"end":427.55909375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.742,"end":29.881,"text":"主席 我們在場的學者專家 各機關代表我想今天上午因為地震的突發狀況 很多大眾運輸暫停服務 以至於學者專家到的比較慢但是上午我在研究室也恭臨了今天前面幾位學者專家的高見我覺得都非常的有道理在今天呢 我們都從憲法的學理 包括大法官的解釋 引經據典"},{"start":30.942,"end":59.838,"text":"但是我們來看一看國會改革跟人民有什麼關係我們接下來就從民眾的角度來思考這個問題因為就在昨天的新聞報導我們看到了本屆國會的最大黨因為積極投入國會改革的議題在媒體報說導致於滿意度急劇下滑這是什麼原因我用一個方式來形容中了樂透該怎麼做"},{"start":60.871,"end":87.688,"text":"中了樂透該怎麼做應該是好好的謹慎規劃理財但是有人中了樂透以前想買不到的通通要買我們來看看今天的這個題目大概我們來看一下當國會第一大黨終於成為國會第一大黨再次成為國會第一大黨的時候他要將過去這幾年來在立法院他想做不能做的通通要做想做什麼想要質詢蔡英文總統"},{"start":88.959,"end":110.101,"text":"想要做什麼?想要對於總統提名的人事同意權的案子要求這些被提名人要依照他的意思來答覆想要做什麼?想要在立法院進行調閱小組的時候要求行政機關要提供他要的資料這個都是目前國會最大黨過去"},{"start":112.321,"end":138.515,"text":"其間一直想要的因此當本屆成為第一大廠之後 中了樂透之後什麼都想要 什麼都要買 什麼都要一次來完畢但是人民關切的是什麼呢 就是今天提綱的第四點人民不反對健全國會但是為什麼國會的改革在過去這幾年來一直在民間沒有共識因為社會對於立法院的信賴度還有待提升"},{"start":139.724,"end":159.237,"text":"民間對於立法委員的表現還有待考量因此民間擔心這些藉國會改革之名要擴張國會權利會不會反過來去侵犯人民的權利會不會影響到我們國家的安全這才是今天第4點提綱代表人民的聲音"},{"start":160.057,"end":170.544,"text":"所以我今天就用這個人民能夠理解的方式來談一談這四點主張我們怎麼來看待首先看到總統副立法院做國情報告"},{"start":172.678,"end":191.698,"text":"這個其實我們民眾都覺得對呀 縣市首長都會到議會去報告那總統來立法院報告似乎也無不可但是如果從民眾不曉得的憲政原理從中華民國憲政體制的嚴格他是有個變遷的過程"},{"start":193.459,"end":195.48,"text":"國民大會在憲法本文有質詢總統的這樣的設計嗎 沒有"},{"start":210.447,"end":222.974,"text":"是在李前總統時期一機關二階段修憲要將萬年國會終結的時候要將總統的選舉權交給人民來行使的時候他跟國民大會的一個談判"},{"start":224.195,"end":250.516,"text":"那時候很多目前國民黨現任立委他們之前的前輩很清楚的參與這樣的一個政治上的談判後來給了什麼國民大會什麼權利國民大會被剝奪了總統的選舉權但是他們取得了對總統來國民大會進行國情諮問國情報告的權利而且是講完了綜合一個回答而已"},{"start":251.585,"end":251.986,"text":"公聽會：鍾佳濱"},{"start":267.469,"end":283.832,"text":"所以當現在的立法院含不啷噹接受了這些歷史遺跡的時候都以為這是他國會本來就應有的權利抱歉包括徵修條文民進黨努力很久要求檢察員跟考試權回歸到他的一個國會權跟行政權"},{"start":284.833,"end":305.302,"text":"在野黨國民黨堅持不同意在這樣的前提之下我們從現在的法例要談要將原屬於憲法設計監察院的調查權回歸到屬於立法院的國會權難道不能夠好好的來思考嗎另外我們談到人事統一權行使以及對行政機關進行調查的時候"},{"start":307.642,"end":333.409,"text":"最大黨一直想要要求用藐視國會的方式來刻意行政機關的義務這個就建權落實國會調查權我想民進黨的版本也是認可這樣的一個調查權必須有一個後面的強制基礎但是看到國民黨的諸多版本嚴重的侵犯到人民的隱私權跟自由權"},{"start":335.438,"end":350.233,"text":"請問國會行使調查權的時候不是要調查行政機關?監督行政機關嗎?這些版本讓人民的自由跟隱私陷入了恐慌當中有的甚者國會要落實自己的權利也要落實對自己的義務當權責部的時候就會濫權"},{"start":354.978,"end":364.063,"text":"國會最大黨所提出的諸多版本都只有在擴張國會的權力卻忽略了相對國會跟立法委員應盡的義務什麼義務保密的義務過去國會進行精密預算審查精密會議的時候紛紛擾擾"},{"start":375.509,"end":386.854,"text":"國會議員可以藉職權的行使,窒息許多重要的機密然而這些機密似乎很容易的就流到對台灣國家安全有威脅的境外敵對勢力手上是這樣嗎?"},{"start":388.442,"end":403.076,"text":"立法委員：國會立法院有辦法做到在進行調查的同時能夠確保這些機密不會外洩不會危害國安嗎這兩個問題才是今天公聽會可能觸及"},{"start":403.877,"end":404.057,"text":"公聽會：鍾佳濱"}]}},{"id":"150871","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150871","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec6117347176728f1115c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6df384419043f4e855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:36:33 - 10:48:01","影片長度":"00:11:28","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":688,"end_time":"2024-04-03T10:48:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T10:36:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.0897187500000003,"end":2.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.606593750000002,"end":16.500968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.12534375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21.83346875,"end":50.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.63721875,"end":35.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.99034375,"end":44.024093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.024093750000006,"end":45.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.618468750000005,"end":50.132843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.18346875,"end":62.46846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":60.13971875,"end":60.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":61.320968750000006,"end":74.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.025343750000005,"end":63.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.43284375,"end":74.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.95596875000001,"end":78.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.02721875,"end":78.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.49971875,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.51659375,"end":84.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":84.62534375,"end":86.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":87.40971875000001,"end":88.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.08471875000001,"end":92.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":89.21534375,"end":89.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.32034375,"end":96.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.65721875000001,"end":97.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.41221875000001,"end":101.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":99.93096875,"end":100.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":101.12909375000001,"end":102.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.44534375,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":112.97534375000001,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.04284375,"end":117.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.37596875000001,"end":115.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":115.87784375000001,"end":127.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.12971875000001,"end":124.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.50471875000001,"end":142.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":129.04034375,"end":129.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.68846875,"end":140.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":141.20721875,"end":151.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.36596875,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":151.99034375000002,"end":152.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.17596875,"end":152.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":152.39534375000002,"end":152.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.49659375000002,"end":177.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.09596875,"end":199.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":199.47659375,"end":213.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":214.71471875,"end":238.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.79534375000003,"end":250.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.46471875,"end":248.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":250.97909375,"end":253.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.75096875000003,"end":257.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":256.78409375,"end":262.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.20096875,"end":263.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.46659375,"end":268.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":267.88784375,"end":268.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.95096875,"end":268.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":268.96784375000004,"end":270.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.03096875,"end":271.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":271.58346875,"end":272.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.12346875000003,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":274.60409375,"end":278.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.55721875,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.97471875,"end":282.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":284.20596875,"end":286.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":287.66534375000003,"end":292.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":294.21284375000005,"end":294.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.68096875000003,"end":302.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":296.55846875000003,"end":297.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.19471875,"end":302.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":302.22846875000005,"end":320.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":321.24659375000005,"end":328.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.89096875,"end":334.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":335.18534375,"end":341.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.18471875,"end":339.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":341.78346875,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.02346875,"end":377.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.25034375,"end":379.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":379.97159375,"end":384.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.78159375,"end":384.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.79784375,"end":395.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":385.70909375,"end":386.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":395.02409375,"end":396.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.32346875,"end":401.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":401.47034375000004,"end":403.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.64721875000004,"end":404.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":404.40659375,"end":406.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.77346875,"end":409.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":408.18659375000004,"end":408.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":409.30034375,"end":410.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.59971875,"end":416.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":413.16471875,"end":413.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":415.56096875000003,"end":419.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.09221875000003,"end":427.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.13721875000005,"end":427.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.42409375000005,"end":430.79909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":431.44034375,"end":432.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.92534375,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":433.56659375000004,"end":435.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.50721875000005,"end":460.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":460.39784375000005,"end":460.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.05159375000005,"end":467.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":463.97534375000004,"end":464.12721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.12721875000005,"end":464.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.32909375,"end":476.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":470.35409375,"end":471.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":475.75409375000004,"end":476.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.14221875000004,"end":476.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":476.15909375,"end":476.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":476.49659375000005,"end":480.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.00221875000005,"end":481.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.64346875,"end":485.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":481.79534375000003,"end":483.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":484.02284375000005,"end":486.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":487.39784375000005,"end":502.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.22034375000004,"end":490.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.51034375,"end":496.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.94846875,"end":518.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":518.4140937500001,"end":518.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":518.9709687500001,"end":525.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":525.77159375,"end":528.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.8428437499999,"end":532.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":533.53409375,"end":547.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.5334687500001,"end":537.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":547.74284375,"end":553.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":554.37471875,"end":557.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":558.8972187500001,"end":558.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.9309687500001,"end":583.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":559.0490937500001,"end":560.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":567.45284375,"end":568.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":569.0559687500001,"end":570.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":582.8428437499999,"end":589.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.54659375,"end":589.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":589.47471875,"end":589.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":589.6940937500001,"end":590.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.3015937499999,"end":590.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":590.45346875,"end":590.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.62221875,"end":590.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":590.87534375,"end":591.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.02721875,"end":591.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":591.3984687500001,"end":591.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.5165937500001,"end":591.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":591.61784375,"end":591.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.6515937500001,"end":600.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.2040937500001,"end":593.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.6428437500001,"end":593.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":600.6459687500001,"end":609.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":609.43784375,"end":615.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":616.4578437499999,"end":619.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":619.9678437499999,"end":621.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.9422187499999,"end":622.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":622.85346875,"end":622.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.9040937500001,"end":622.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":622.97159375,"end":629.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.9240937500001,"end":629.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":629.9409687500001,"end":630.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":630.1772187500001,"end":632.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":632.7253437500001,"end":636.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.57284375,"end":643.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":637.6528437500001,"end":637.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":643.6940937500001,"end":647.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.0478437500001,"end":648.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":648.7397187500001,"end":649.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":651.6928437500001,"end":653.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":653.90346875,"end":654.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.5615937499999,"end":663.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.5265937500001,"end":662.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":662.79659375,"end":665.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.18471875,"end":663.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.20159375,"end":663.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.4040937500001,"end":663.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.5222187500001,"end":663.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.5559687500001,"end":664.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.7959687500002,"end":668.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.82096875,"end":669.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":669.5634687500001,"end":671.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.5972187500001,"end":669.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.92596875,"end":672.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":672.8034687500001,"end":677.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.90471875,"end":672.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":678.52409375,"end":681.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":681.7978437500001,"end":685.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":685.69596875,"end":687.50159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.28,"end":16.14,"text":"葉元之委員請自長"},{"start":22.223,"end":34.295,"text":"葉委員好請教一下因為我們現在大家都不喜歡有黃流票所以之前好像我們教育部還是體育署有通過一個有修法就是運動產業發展條例第24條之1條文草案"},{"start":40.06,"end":61.634,"text":"你們也是有提到就是說這些運動票券不能夠加價賣嘛對不對也不可以用就是免費的也不可以用價錢去賣嘛那我想問一下因為這個法案是什麼時候公布的跟委員報告這個運產條例24條之一是在大院去年的12月15號三讀通過今年1月3號公布的"},{"start":63.735,"end":83.83,"text":"那現在大概是三月,今天四月了,已經將近三個月的時間,不曉得這三個月當中有沒有黃牛因為我們這個法案通過之後被罰的狀況有沒有?目前是還沒有這樣子的一個個案跟處罰。還沒有個案喔?沒有個案原因是因為法律產生了嚇阻的效果。"},{"start":86.236,"end":87.739,"text":"高峰會出現在什麼時候"},{"start":102.866,"end":122.291,"text":"現在陸陸續續大概包含了現在在大巨蛋裡面有些賽事對 值班開始陸陸續續大概就回賽事的產生值班陸陸續續開始有賽事所以黃牛票情況就會比較嚴重沒有 這個部分我們要進行補管所以次長大概因你的預估的話黃牛票的情況大概什麼時候比較嚴重然後你們現在會根據這個法律"},{"start":124.271,"end":129.253,"text":"所作的因應比如取締的作為為何?我的問題其實是說你們有因應的作為嗎?"},{"start":146.579,"end":168.397,"text":"因為我們現在已經有法律基礎了 那個因應作為是什麼還是請署長回答也可以報告委員 那我們在2月29號有公布執法 所以在裁罰的部分以及獎勵檢舉各方面我們都已經在進行 那我們也做了黃牛票的這個檢舉專區也跟各地方縣市的警局這部分來 警政的系統來做合作"},{"start":168.797,"end":177.454,"text":"那原則上就是如果這個賽事以他第一場發生的這個縣市的警政單位來負責受理這樣一個檢舉的部分好"},{"start":178.717,"end":198.532,"text":"因為我們陸續在網路上還是有找到一些有人在賣票券不知道說有沒有去做海巡就是說去巡查網路上這些行為因為已經有法律了當然是希望能夠比較嚴格的執法杜絕黃牛票的情況產生另外還有一個問題就是去年法院有一個判例"},{"start":199.954,"end":222.032,"text":"黃油票如果搭配搭售來販賣的話其實是無罪的這個範例就是說有個網友他在臉書上賣大巨蛋開幕的門票那因為他是搭配一些球員的周邊商品比如說鑰匙圈啊等等然後最後法院是說這個他沒有要賣票的意圖啦他賣的是周邊商品啦所以就無罪了"},{"start":223.379,"end":250.198,"text":"後來網友就在討論這是不是其實開了一個後門即便有這個法律存在可是只要黃牛他拿票搭配一些周邊商品來賣的話他就不構成犯罪那我不知道署長有沒有掌握到這個判例跟相關的情形報告委員根據我們目前公布的這個母法跟子法讓食物用加價販售的手法用綁物品來售票的行為就您剛提到綁物品來售票的行為它也屬於違法的情況"},{"start":251.019,"end":273.007,"text":"可是法院不這麼認為啊那是因為去年他還沒有這個法的通文那現在他就屬於違法的行為會被裁罰那會不會產生什麼模糊的空間你們是怎麼算的這是怎麼去判定目前他就是他如果綁定了他就綁物品的售票行為我們還是一樣依照我們的裁罰條件不管他的東西是貴不貴對一樣還是會裁罰就是會裁罰超過他原來的價值的話還是會裁罰"},{"start":274.959,"end":284.651,"text":"你會去計算他周邊商品的價值以及票面的價值那他如果賣的東西是非常貴的東西比如說他賣1200塊然後票300塊他賣1200塊可是他的周邊商品可能有超過1200塊你這樣還要罰嗎知道我的問題嗎"},{"start":295.746,"end":320.575,"text":"我了解你的意思,但這部分我們可能還會去再,這個案我們還是要跟這個檢調單位來做討論。來研究一下。謝謝。然後再來就是,另外一個問題就是,有關於藍,就是子蘭有爆發遷堵的事件,我剛剛看到你們也有報告相關的議題。我想請教一下,因為本來我們體育署的副署長好像有說在兩個月內要建立一個防堵的機制是不是,跟政策。"},{"start":321.655,"end":333.661,"text":"我們辦公室有去跟體育署要資料現在我看到體育署好像在這幾個月沒做什麼事好像只有召開一個建立籃球運動防堵機制的宣導座談"},{"start":335.253,"end":337.916,"text":"在中池的防甲球的部分已經原本跟檢證系統、檢調系統就已經有建立一個平台"},{"start":354.974,"end":355.194,"text":"法治教育"},{"start":378.6,"end":382.644,"text":"你又說球團要做連帶責任?對那之前是沒有要求球團?之前是沒有"},{"start":406.883,"end":430.424,"text":"因為這件事件然後我們才去做要求那為什麼之前沒有因為之前的確在職業賽事方面沒有發生這些問題的情況之前職棒就有啊職籃就覺得比較是所以因為這樣的事件我們目前就延伸到不只是籃球我們其他只要職業賽事我們未來都會往這個方向來預先去部署去進行好那另外有一個你們說要研議建制一個"},{"start":431.468,"end":459.851,"text":"不法信託基金目前這個執行狀況是怎樣目前這部分還在談目前的確因為籃球的選手他們跟棒球不太一樣是他們沒有所謂的簽約金那從他們的薪水裡面來做那個撥付那這部分我們剛剛其他委員也有提議那這部分我們體育署這邊會聯同協會在這一塊來補足補足什麼就是建立這樣的一個制度我們盡快來進行這件事情所以那這個要怎麼運作"},{"start":462.079,"end":486.189,"text":"那目前是由選手他們本身我們是出席下他們拿出一定比例的這個薪資來放入這個信託的基金裡面然後等他們如果退休的時候如果沒有發生這樣類似的假球的事件的時候我們再再把錢還他對對對那如果有打假球錢就沒收當然是這個意思當然那這有用嗎這個其實也算是選手本身質疑的一個行為啦其實有時候打假球他"},{"start":487.729,"end":505.249,"text":"有時候也是被威脅的嘛是 但是這個部分另外就是一時他被利誘嘛對那他被利誘的金額一定遠高於這個所謂的信託基金實務上沒錯對 所以用這個信託基金會達到效果嗎因為我們目前看起來也在請我們的臺灣運彩公司把"},{"start":505.789,"end":531.579,"text":"P聯盟目前還沒有列入運彩的投注標的地來把它列入那這個一旦都列入之後呢依照我們的運動產業條例它就可以給以重罰3到7年的這樣一個處罰所以這部分我們還是有嚇阻的效果在我會這樣問就當然就是因為打假球這個事情對球迷的心會很受傷啦但應該知道啦那教育部自己也說要推出一些防弊的機制可是現在看起來好幾個月了"},{"start":533.941,"end":556.749,"text":"我看起來是沒什麼進度啦我覺得進度太緩慢了啦然後包括你說會研議這個機制這個機制到底能不能達到效果我們也是很存疑啦更何況說你說那個不拔基金到底怎麼運作你到現在還在研議當中所以實際上真的動作是真的有點慢大概什麼時候會有一個比較具體的防打假球的一個方案會出來大概什麼時候"},{"start":559.726,"end":570.616,"text":"信託的部分主要還是屬於職業選手他們本身的自律的行為那部分我們還是會協請工會跟藍協一起來討論因為你們自己也講了嘛但是運彩我們比較積極地作為運彩的投注標的這件事情是由法這邊來遏止所以我們希望儘快台灣運彩公司儘快把P聯盟把它納進來這樣我們用法的部分來遏止選手們打假球這件事情"},{"start":582.987,"end":604.759,"text":"市長因為你們自己那時候提兩點聲明嘛其中一個就是說會建立一個跨部會的防疫機制這個已經做了對那問題是只是建立平台沒有實際的作為啊有有其實我們現在整個警政跟我們的檢調都有在協助我們都有到各個球團裡面去這個一定都已經在做了那好啦我覺得這個部分可以盡快了是"},{"start":605.259,"end":619.234,"text":"那然後再來這個次長因為我還有點時間跟你請教一下我上次有個臨時提案是講到說我們現在私立國中直升私立高中他被你們排除補助學費上次有個臨時提案嘛那你們說要回去研議不知道有沒有進度"},{"start":620.003,"end":647.266,"text":"是那個因為我們上次講我們講說因為你們那個賴準總統說要教育平權嘛所以所有的高中都可以補助學費嘛但只有漏網之魚是說如果是私立國中直升私立高中這一塊就被漏掉了跟委員報告這個是涉及到那個高級中等教育法裡面的規定那我請問那個要修啊因為站在平權的角度不應他入學的方式來把它排除嗎對"},{"start":648.857,"end":677.097,"text":"有沒有什麼進度?沒有嗎?跟委員報告因為前次也有說明過因為在審高級重點教育法的時候這個議題也是被高度關注所以他是直接在條文裡頭審審法是民國幾年的時候?是不是100年?時間可能要再查一下是不是起碼超過一年嗎?超過一年以上但是你們教育部還有賴清德是什麼時候宣布說要平權?是去年嗎?"},{"start":678.581,"end":678.601,"text":"謝謝葉元 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150870","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150870","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecdd63a4974e1afbe26f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a6861507bed890295c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"10:39:22 - 10:45:46","影片長度":"00:06:24","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:45:46+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":384,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:39:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.5372187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.11096875,"end":1.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.22221875,"end":18.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.676593750000002,"end":30.844718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.23284375,"end":55.127843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.60034375,"end":61.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.70909375,"end":104.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.48284375,"end":107.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.67221875000001,"end":111.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.65909375000001,"end":123.65721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.89346875000001,"end":135.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.19534375,"end":150.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.80909375000002,"end":155.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.74909375000001,"end":176.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.83034375,"end":178.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.34909375,"end":189.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.09846875000002,"end":218.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.73096875000002,"end":221.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.71784375000001,"end":223.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.86096875,"end":244.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.63409375,"end":249.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.46034375000002,"end":261.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.71159375,"end":270.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.00534375,"end":277.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.21971875,"end":282.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.00784375,"end":283.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.37471875,"end":294.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.73596875000004,"end":304.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.94534375,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.12159375000005,"end":314.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.98596875000004,"end":323.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.38971875000004,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.05971875,"end":350.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.08159375,"end":352.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.81971875000005,"end":370.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.04471875,"end":382.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.37596875,"end":384.96659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.07,"end":0.313,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":27.487,"end":49.673,"text":"大家好我是洪申翰其實今天算起來已經是我大概這半年第4次參與人工生殖法的公聽會了其實在去年10月的時候上個會期立法院我就主辦了一場人工生殖法的公聽會當然那場公聽會上面大家是呼籲說女同志單身女性盡快的可以適用人工生殖法"},{"start":50.493,"end":73.191,"text":"在最近國建署舉辦的兩場公聽會我也出席了當然今天我們也來到現場每次的公聽會其實都非常重要其實現在很多人當然都談到帶孕母有關相關的倫理或配套的問題或者是孕母的權益的保障確實目前我們也檢視了現在人工生殖法的版本來看"},{"start":73.951,"end":101.948,"text":"我們大概看了一下現在在黨委員的版本看起來比較多的條文是傾向從需求者跟這個委託者的角度來去出發那看起來對於孕母的權益的保障琢磨是比較少一點的那所以這部分當然我自己也想聽聽看等下專家學者們更進一步的討論可是確實是有沒有現在能夠短期其實有一個相對比較成熟比較共識的做法當然我們自己也在觀察這一點"},{"start":103.089,"end":123.299,"text":"那可是這個我還是要強調這個今天我們在未完文會在審查接下來要審查的時候我還是比較傾向主張哦其實必須優先處理女同志配偶跟單身女性自主決定動軟後使用自管應用相關的程序哦"},{"start":123.999,"end":149.938,"text":"那我自己認為第一個這部分共識度是比較高的然後第二個在時間點上在修法的時程上面我是覺得也可以比較快速也比較單純的競速來先做處理那今天題目裡面當然有討論到一個關於婚育體的問題所以我還是要表達說我其實對於婚育脫鉤這件事情的支持因為我們已經看過太多大概跟我年紀差不多30到40歲左右的女性"},{"start":150.899,"end":168.932,"text":"其實他們非常非常抗拒進入到婚姻但卻又希望有小孩所以這個這樣子的心願可是現在在我們的法規裡面卻很難達成那當然現在我也聽到很多人在擔心開放單身女性適用這步法是不是會有所謂製造單親家庭這樣子的問題"},{"start":170.109,"end":188.548,"text":"這其實在之前的兩場公聽會裡面其實我們都聽到非常非常多那針對這一點我其實覺得大家應該進一步更往下的討論其實就現實層面上來說不管雙親或單親其實我們都看到很多的都是有家庭悲劇包括暴力包括缺乏愛的情境的發生"},{"start":190.029,"end":212.518,"text":"無論是雙親或單親其實我們也都看到其實他們是有能夠創造幸福或愛護下一代的能力我想要講一個比較新的目前3月剛出爐的統計數據根據行政院主計總署的統計我們現在的單人家庭已經突破135萬戶了我們的單親家庭也已經突破92萬戶了"},{"start":214.019,"end":214.199,"text":"公聽委員：洪申翰"},{"start":232.515,"end":234.356,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員：洪申翰"},{"start":249.645,"end":270.696,"text":"這就是事實這就是現況所以我要問的事情是說我們過去在設定有一個設定異性婚姻或者不離婚這就等於是小孩幸福美滿這樣的前提真的還是牢不可破嗎所以最後我要說其實我們目前的法規是允許單親收養小孩的所以"},{"start":272.385,"end":297.925,"text":"開放單身女性使用失管嬰兒的療程我是希望能夠建議國健所具體建議國健所在我們布版的草案中其實是可以比照衛福部社家署單身收養的法律條件跟流程那放入包括他的照顧計劃財務規劃監護規劃來減低社會大眾對於說是不是開放單身女性就叫做製造單親家庭的疑慮"},{"start":298.766,"end":299.066,"text":"公聽委員：洪申翰"},{"start":329.086,"end":344.875,"text":"能夠過的盡快趕快來過因為大家真的有很多時間上的焦慮其實每一分每一秒對於很想生育的這些族群來說其實都是時間上面的心理的壓力甚至是一些折磨那能夠我們盡快過"},{"start":346.296,"end":347.517,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":371.115,"end":371.255,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150869","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150869","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec920dfc52448078136f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a6b8cb1959c7f2e8ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"10:33:06 - 10:39:19","影片長度":"00:06:13","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:39:19+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":373,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:33:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.62409375,"end":15.015968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.77096875,"end":257.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.60659375,"end":339.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.40409375,"end":371.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.05721875,"end":373.06971875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.633,"end":31.646,"text":"好謝謝主席在座各位貴賓大家好我用這個好那其實這個人工生殖法我在總諮詢的時候就有提出過了那我今天再次針對我的立場來發言首先是我認為就是今年五月我們已經同科上路已經五週年了"},{"start":31.826,"end":59.094,"text":"那我希望說在這個會期我們一起把這個婚姻平權最後一塊的拼圖來拼上就是把這個人工生殖法順利的來進行修法希望就在這個會期有結果那當時衛福部也承諾說希望這個會期可以把他們的版本送出來那我的目標就是希望說可以消除我們對性傾向跟婚姻狀態的差別待遇讓同志跟單身的生育權跟成家權都能夠被平等的保障"},{"start":59.714,"end":77.517,"text":"那首先要講一下就是根據我國多元性別生活狀況的調查現在20到29歲然後30到39歲的同志族群他們願意生養小孩的意願高達四成跟三成六也就是說同志族群對於生育是有需求而且他們也很願意生的"},{"start":78.038,"end":100.92,"text":"那我覺得現在台灣大家都在講小子話在講國安危機那有人願意生同志家庭也很願意生而且他們的家庭也非常的有能力生為什麼不讓他們生呢應該是政府要幫他們鼓掌幫他們多多鼓勵才對可是在現行的人工生殖制度裡面只有開放給異性戀的不孕夫妻也就是說在這個人工生殖法裡面明顯還是"},{"start":101.561,"end":104.222,"text":"在臺灣有非常多的女性會使用這個動卵的服務可是大家知道現在臺灣動卵的解凍率非常低嗎為什麼呢因為從其實2022年有一個研究就是我們臺大醫院動卵的平均使用率只有8.4%"},{"start":129.07,"end":143.861,"text":"那背後的原因就是因為現在的人工生殖法必須要求要存在婚姻狀態才能作為使用人工生殖的必要條件也就是如果單身女性她動了很久可是一直都沒有找到對象"},{"start":144.642,"end":151.611,"text":"那他就沒有辦法去解凍他的卵子來進行生育可是其實在大法官的解釋當中並沒有說生育權跟婚姻一定要綁在一起為什麼呢大家可以去看現在其實單身者本來就可以收養這是現有保障的權利然後你要使用產檢你要使用育兒補助"},{"start":162.745,"end":190.047,"text":"你要使用這個國家給的社會福利都不需要經過婚姻關係也就是不一定要在婚姻狀態的情況下你才可以生育啊既然生育權也是我們憲法所保障的權利為什麼在人工生殖法裡面卻要這樣子限制呢所以我希望就是針對單身女性還有目前我們討論的女同志至少可以先行開放來當成這個人工生殖法在這個會期我們共同開放的目標"},{"start":190.948,"end":200.893,"text":"那當然也有人會說在孩子的成長過程當中如果父親缺席了好像我們在刻意製造一種單親家庭然後有可能會減損兒童的最佳利益那這個當然是一種偏見為什麼呢因為其實我在總質詢也有講過其實有非常多的研究顯示說你在一個家庭能不能健康快樂的長大"},{"start":213.118,"end":228.046,"text":"跟你的家庭結構沒有關係而是跟你的家庭關係才有關係什麼意思就是如果他在成長的過程當中看到爸媽一直在衝突一直在吵架然後看到家裡有非常多產生非常讓他有兒童陰影的一些經驗那這種生長經驗反而會造成他的生長狀態沒有辦法有非常健康的身心所以比起家庭結構我認為家庭關係才是最重要的"},{"start":242.213,"end":256.949,"text":"所以是不是單親我不認為是會 等於是說不代表你是單親你就在刻意製造家庭的陰影或刻意製造家庭的不幸這個是毫無科學根據而且也是對於單親家庭的一種嚴重的歧視"},{"start":258.706,"end":281.941,"text":"所以我希望在我的版本裡面除了針對單身女性還有女同志之外我也有細緻的討論關於動卵的使用跟棄用的規範因為我認為對於現在女性在使用動卵需要更多更嚴格的醫療規範那除此之外我也認為針對子女他應該要有他的身世的知悉權那這個也是保障子女非常重要的一個權利"},{"start":283.162,"end":291.451,"text":"最後講到這個代孕的部分因為確實代孕現在很多人覺得比較有爭議那既然有爭議是為什麼是因為現在的草案的設計如果真的要進行到代孕的討論還是太以委託人為中心了也就是說被你委託的這個代孕的孕母本身並沒有去討論他的權益"},{"start":303.863,"end":322.632,"text":"就是我們應該要針對這個育母有更細緻的保護而且現在草案對於這一塊是非常非常空白的所以代表說我們沒有辦法去討論育母她自己的身體的自主權沒有辦法去認定她更明確的侵權那甚至也沒有辦法因此來保護子女的最佳利益"},{"start":322.972,"end":338.633,"text":"所以我認為如果要討論代理孕母可以但是必須要在非常更細緻的討論之上包括說這個孕母的他的權益他必須要有更多的保護更多的討論不能說在影響他的自主決定權身體自主權之下"},{"start":339.514,"end":347.639,"text":"就來進行這樣的開放然後可能會導致基於人情或者是一些階級甚至權勢甚至是身體剝削的狀態產生那以上是我的發言我希望大家可以共同的有共識然後讓這個人工生殖法在這個會期順利的通過來保障所有願意生育的人也應該要鼓勵臺灣願意生的人就應該讓他們有能力生又願意生"},{"start":368.013,"end":368.213,"text":"何樂而不為?"}]}},{"id":"150868","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150868","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecd60b6a8da8b5e3f7e1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a68b74f074e5a4b8f15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:28:53 - 10:37:13","影片長度":"00:08:20","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:37:13+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":500,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:28:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.586593750000002,"end":36.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.290968750000005,"end":41.627843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.89784375,"end":42.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.53471875,"end":47.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.91409375,"end":46.572218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.63971875,"end":47.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.78721875,"end":50.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.70659375,"end":53.524718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.67659375,"end":59.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.650343750000005,"end":182.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.98971875,"end":186.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.34784375,"end":188.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.67659375000002,"end":210.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.90096875,"end":212.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.74034375000002,"end":213.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.14096875,"end":218.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.20346875,"end":220.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.02159375000002,"end":224.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.99159375000002,"end":225.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.42596875,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.09221875,"end":231.35346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.57284375,"end":232.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.46284375000002,"end":234.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.15034375000002,"end":235.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.38221875000002,"end":237.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.15409375000002,"end":240.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.09034375000002,"end":244.73534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.83659375000002,"end":249.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.05096875,"end":283.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.39159375,"end":315.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.69471875,"end":325.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.75221875,"end":329.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.54471875,"end":333.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.73409375,"end":336.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.10909375,"end":345.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.39471875000004,"end":345.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.91784375000003,"end":346.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.03159375,"end":348.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.66846875000005,"end":351.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.93784375,"end":354.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.24971875,"end":356.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.39284375,"end":377.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.44034375,"end":378.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.36846875000003,"end":381.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.51971875000004,"end":383.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.08909375,"end":389.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.65784375000004,"end":394.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.33221875000004,"end":398.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.54659375,"end":402.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.03971875,"end":424.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.17971875,"end":431.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.84534375000004,"end":439.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.65846875000005,"end":440.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.80596875000003,"end":450.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.88034375,"end":471.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.53096875000006,"end":475.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.15909375,"end":479.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.54659375000006,"end":482.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.82471875000005,"end":484.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.51221875000005,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.48034375000003,"end":499.96971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.035,"end":35.253,"text":"謝謝昭偉 昭偉可不可以先不要算時間提醒你一下 因為大地震在場所有的學者專家可能大家都有自己的 比如說學校裡面 家庭 任何什麼事情要處理 是我們等一下先暫停休息一下讓他們也可以去打打電話 或者說做些什麼樣的事情跟昭偉來提醒 請昭偉裁決"},{"start":37.521,"end":59.042,"text":"是否等一下我們在下一位鍾嘉賓召委那個發言先休息OK好那不好意思謝謝鍾召委好意提醒了是那我們在待會那個莊瑞雄委員發言結束之後我們休息5分鐘然後5分鐘之後回來我們就繼續接著由鍾召委發言謝謝大家"},{"start":60.711,"end":72.537,"text":"謝謝 謝謝昭偉我們在場的所有我敬佩的我們學者專家各界的精英還有我們立法院的各位同事這幾天各個政黨裡面公訪的一個焦點就在整個國會調查權的對象跟如果有不配合的話"},{"start":77.299,"end":105.053,"text":"對象可以什麼樣的一個責罰這個其實本席看來就兩個重點過去司法院大法公會議裡面有關國會改革這國會調查權的一個定性行使的一個界限行使的方式跟程序這個其實都做成很多號的一個解釋大體定調調查權是立法院行使憲法職權所必要的輔助性的一個權利這個我相信在立法院裡面沒有一個黨派會去拒絕說國會"},{"start":106.934,"end":109.496,"text":"公聽會．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會．立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":122.265,"end":122.425,"text":"行訴訴訟法"},{"start":151.809,"end":155.192,"text":"在184條裡面他本身就有拒絕證言權的這樣的一個針對特定的一個親屬之間我曾經當過法定代理人的那這一些人是連法院叫我來叫我去來作證我理都可以不要去理你了"},{"start":167.841,"end":181.964,"text":"這個其實就是在談整個期待可能性的問題那我也是人性尊嚴的一環那我必須要提出來的就是說這個現在的一個爭議裡面出現的大部分如果說賦予調查成立調查委員會的一個權限卻沒有給這個委員會相當強制的一個規範那麼受邀請的一個對象他拒絕來提供資料或者對於查明真相能力打折扣那這樣的話這樣的一個規範的話"},{"start":195.706,"end":210.252,"text":"那確實是我們也覺得說法律必須要去充實的一個地方但是可不可以強到像國民黨的總召傅君琦所提出來的連私人的部分都可以透過立法院的決議來移送檢查機關這個讓我第一個想到的就是擴權我從第8屆跟顧立雄委員我們共提的一個國會改革的一個版本我到現在都承認"},{"start":222.059,"end":232.852,"text":"民主進步黨到第9屆2016年的時候也提出黨版大家都有討論第8屆就林佳龍那第9屆就我跟顧立雄那民進黨也有黨版那為什麼到最後沒有過我們在閹割嗎"},{"start":235.199,"end":248.948,"text":"沒有啊 國會長你也不贊成啊 那個叫做社會沒有共識啊那社會沒有共識 什麼樣來達到共識我來看看啦 我們在講說司法院大法官會議裡面 從他歷屆裡面他從1992年做成了4-293 他確立公營銀行的文件調閱權1993年的4-325強調"},{"start":260.174,"end":282.364,"text":"說目前只有監察院外 立法院也有行使憲法職權文件的一個調閱權在1993年3.25號才算確立立法院可以行使調閱權的一個權利也就是說連大法官的態度也就一直在成長 一直在做一個改變到了1998年4.61號重申立法院對機關提供資料 有餘力可以邀請該會"},{"start":286.432,"end":306.64,"text":"議會2014年針對319真相調查委員會大家一直在談的4585確立國會調查權的憲政框架這幾天大家在立法院的攻防裡面其實都是在講說處罰的範圍怎麼樣合理的一個強制的一個手段在2015年我們立法院的調閱偵查卷證件所做成的"},{"start":310.761,"end":329.408,"text":"729號的大法官會議解釋也認定立法院向檢察機關調味權卷證也僅限於偵查終結不起訴確定或者未經起訴其他方式結案的一個卷證算是對文件調味權的一個限制我相信這些看起來眼花繚亂但是也不是原封不動"},{"start":330.578,"end":356.305,"text":"在我看來是與時俱進那我們立法院立法委員是在行使人民的意志那我們現在說要國會改革好啊有調查權好事啊民進黨也有版本出來啊我們也贊成啊但對象跟範圍我們這樣子用政治攻防的一個方式我們到底改變了些什麼我們到底要達到些什麼"},{"start":357.661,"end":371.294,"text":"現在各個黨的黨版裡面有沒有傳達人民對國會改革的一個期望我希望大家可以平心靜氣啊所以今天這麼多學者專家來啊我要很仔細的 我在那邊在台下聆聽啊透過我們這麼多的專家學者的一個專業來釐清現在世界趨勢的一個動態好的部分啊我們用心來跟人民來溝通你像比如說"},{"start":385.246,"end":401.98,"text":"上禮拜我們在內政委員會海巴法的修訂裡面我們都說好就讓民眾黨的版本進來以後再來討論甚至於國民黨要求說我們到地方去開公聽本席都認為說講得很有道理"},{"start":403.106,"end":424.084,"text":"就讓他去公聽再次強調國會是在實施人民的意志不是只有單純的政治政黨之間的一個攻防我們也期待有這麼多學者專家在不要讓他們看笑話了先放下黨派之劍凝聚整個社會上的一個共識"},{"start":425.525,"end":449.89,"text":"這個才是重點當我一想到我相信昭偉很清楚你本身也在法界出來我也當過那麼久的律師我們在傳喚證人的時候你說把證人找來法官要你拒絕也要先問你的身份問你的身份到底他這個拒絕要不要讓他簽下去看你這些關係的時候馬上說要提醒你說你可以拒絕證言那我們立法院毫無限制的"},{"start":450.939,"end":479.017,"text":"人民一定會講我們真的在擴權我們到底要達到什麼樣的國會改革各個政黨應該躺開心胸再去講說民進黨不是2016年有提出嗎是啊我們有提出啊本席也有提出啊提出又怎麼樣那社會沒有共識啊如果要按照說人數多的話那2016年這樣版本全部都通過啦所以啊我是覺得大家比較謹慎來處理國會改革的事情尤其是期待"},{"start":484.879,"end":497.191,"text":"國會改革不能到最後笑話立法委員沒有人幹一輩子的我都很怕我們立法院這次通過了一個法案如果人民這個範圍無限制的擴張的話是立法院在作孽"}]}},{"id":"150867","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150867","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ececf786b0a1dc73ed15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6e877a6cfc589171d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:23:40 - 10:36:28","影片長度":"00:12:48","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":768,"end_time":"2024-04-03T10:36:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T10:23:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":7.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.5572187500000005,"end":12.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.25221875,"end":15.775343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.94409375,"end":64.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.244718750000004,"end":75.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.84659375000001,"end":74.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.93909375,"end":79.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.03159375,"end":77.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.39846875,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.68534375,"end":86.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.09346875,"end":89.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.97909375,"end":103.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.33221875000001,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.96846875,"end":178.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.61971875,"end":121.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.04909375000001,"end":127.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.89346875,"end":180.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.47534375,"end":193.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.28034375000001,"end":186.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.09346875,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.18596875,"end":196.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.70971875,"end":223.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.03409375,"end":225.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.58221875,"end":225.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.05471875,"end":228.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.50596875000002,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.37909375,"end":259.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.77096875,"end":270.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.57096875,"end":282.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.36659375,"end":291.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.09534375000004,"end":293.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.48721875,"end":308.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.18534375,"end":333.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.54471875,"end":332.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.62034375,"end":362.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.24221875,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.37096875000003,"end":376.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.73596875000004,"end":382.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.33846875,"end":383.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.02596875,"end":390.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.37159375000005,"end":385.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.37096875000003,"end":390.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.07534375,"end":440.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.91159375,"end":413.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.78096875000006,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.53034375000004,"end":483.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.51721875000004,"end":480.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.60971875,"end":495.27846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.58721875000003,"end":573.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.21909375,"end":497.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.89096875,"end":590.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.4197187500001,"end":602.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.2490937499999,"end":602.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.9072187500001,"end":615.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.5947187500001,"end":604.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.95159375,"end":623.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.65096875,"end":670.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.16659375,"end":690.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.2309687500001,"end":693.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.15471875,"end":709.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.5503437500001,"end":701.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.33784375,"end":715.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.1809687500001,"end":737.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.86096875,"end":762.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.81846875,"end":742.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.89909375,"end":763.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.5234687500001,"end":764.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.4428437500001,"end":767.52284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.089,"text":"蘇貞昌議員"},{"start":15.302,"end":34.651,"text":"委員長好 署長早我們來看一下這個我們辦公室之前一直在關心很多單向協會跟選手權利的義務之間其實一直出了很多事情我相信署長也都非常的清楚那我們之前也跟體育署很多討論但是我們覺得很多的回應其實不管是從協會端或是體育署端這邊來都有很大的落差"},{"start":35.351,"end":51.975,"text":"我們在總質詢的時候問了體育教育部關於這個協會跟選手的問題教育部給我們的回應是說會強化溝通管道利害關係人參與跟明確定定權利義務我想這部分署長你一定非常清楚可是我們來看一下哪裡出了問題剛剛結束的這個網協理事會他們沒有讓選手參與關於這個國際網總獎金分配的討論那甚至呢"},{"start":60.797,"end":60.917,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":79.873,"end":89.584,"text":"這部分目前是百分之五十的部分是由這個理事代表這個選手們來跟協會這邊來所以只有百分之五十嗎那還有另外百分之五十呢對不起 百分之五十是指ITF他們給協會辦國際賽事的時候給了一筆錢"},{"start":95.831,"end":96.331,"text":"這也是署長您不樂見的"},{"start":120.837,"end":121.177,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":140.166,"end":140.206,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":160.758,"end":161.959,"text":"市委委員這部分我也認同這部分我們已經在進行當中"},{"start":180.894,"end":196.825,"text":"三個月內我們希望根據某些協會那至於哪些協會要成立我想署長您心裡有數但是如果您覺得還需要跟不同的辦公室討論我們辦公室很歡迎我們開放討論如果你覺得哪些有爭議的協會我這邊就不要問你哪些協會了好不好不要讓署長為難"},{"start":197.585,"end":197.705,"text":"發言委員：陳培瑜"},{"start":226.507,"end":229.09,"text":"冰球的事情2022年6月26號選手在比賽過程中重傷到了2024年他們寫信給署長信箱為什麼拖這麼久才寫信呢我們來看一下可是你們回給他們說會輔導冰球協會盡力協助這個"},{"start":246.627,"end":269.282,"text":"申請保險的李培事宜兩年後才想到有保險我們想問體育署積極的輔導狀況到底在哪裡當時你們保的這個險是長成這樣子的署長跟你報告一下保的是公共意外責任保險那難道體育署認為只有在這個受訓的過程當中需要用到嗎他們在移動在交通過程當中他們是集訓期一整年的集訓期耶但為什麼會長成這個樣子"},{"start":271.206,"end":292.656,"text":"這部分也的確正如委員之前給我們體育署的建議在運動員的部分的保障不是只有公安安全的這個意外險的一個保障而已這部分我們正在研議當中也謝謝委員提醒我們但是這個選手他目前已經在到處澄清了因為這個小孩目前狀況其實並不理想他要去很多恢復的費用所以我不知道體育署是這部分協會正在處理當中 申訴委員會正在處理當中"},{"start":294.057,"end":307.586,"text":"我相信體育署應該要積極介入協助這邊我是不是就直接的要求針對冰球協會忽視選手受傷後他們掌握這個態度跟那個回復的狀況真的都不是太OK是不是請署長這邊積極的關心協助這個個案報告委員這的確已經陳榮銘講的其實我們在保險的部分的確應該更進一步來協助這些學生運動員"},{"start":314.11,"end":314.23,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":329.5,"end":330.72,"text":"再來確實建立各級國家對保險需求制度分級跟審查機制"},{"start":355.126,"end":356.487,"text":"這個相關的會議召開我相信應該要邀請選手作為代表而且是各個單項運動是這個是初步的討論而已"},{"start":383.08,"end":412.641,"text":"好那我相信更積極的討論一定要讓選手知情好嗎他們不要是最後又收到一個很莫名其妙的保險通知這樣好嗎好再來這個零容忍的部分這兩天就是兒童節我們辦公室一直在強調所有兒少的權益有包含兒少選手的權益那署長應該也記得在去年最後的質詢的時候我提出對教育部零容忍的質詢會中我也提醒教育部零容忍不能只是口號還要提醒各個單位要注意所謂的不受歡迎的名單不知道署長還你記不記得這件事情"},{"start":412.961,"end":413.201,"text":"報告委員．這部分"},{"start":440.259,"end":463.365,"text":"我在最近這幾天我也有深入去了解那目前主要的關卡應該在於我們的競技的這一部分因為應該說學校的部分學校組的部分我們的這個當教練他本身他的犯的錯比方說體罰或一些輕微的性騷的部分但是還沒有達到不適任被解職的情況之下"},{"start":464.065,"end":464.505,"text":"陳培瑜主席"},{"start":489.765,"end":496.914,"text":"欸怎麼講去提告的時候他的判決有時候是過失這個張教練的事情署長你一定非常非常的清楚那他對待小孩的事情我想你也很清楚他把小孩屁股打爛甚至還讓同一隊的球員來圍觀這個事情還有非常非常多不當的體罰那後來呢做出相關的懲處也依法公布了這個姓名"},{"start":508.767,"end":508.887,"text":"好 接下來"},{"start":536.916,"end":541.581,"text":"教育部的林榮忍到底是什麼狀態我們還看到他還成為這個人他還成為相關的協會顧問我當然知道署長你會有你的說法我們還看到後續你們在這個單項協會的補助裡面你們給了這個協會85萬的補助然後我們就問說那為什麼這個人還在協會裡面當顧問呢體育署給我們的回應是"},{"start":556.195,"end":556.515,"text":"發言委員：陳培瑜"},{"start":576.702,"end":581.264,"text":"所以署長你也認同我的說法嗎對不對你們體育署自己說這個這個協會這個顧問的負擔費用是他們自己承擔所以他就可以出現在賽事當中他甚至可以做整個賽事的顧問欸所以你也不認同嗎對不對我不認同"},{"start":603.472,"end":615.058,"text":"對 所以你們會更積極所以除了你剛剛說的之外只要你們體育署有補助這個相關的名單這個不受歡迎的名單應該要比我們想像的更廣才對 對嗎因為他們是第一時間在現場接觸到這些小孩的"},{"start":615.984,"end":636.179,"text":"這部分不受歡迎的名單這邊我們需要研議這可能還是跟他的工作權跟他的法有關係那這部分我們後面再來進行那我們再來問一樣是這個中華民國五人制足球協會最近你們也做了一件事情我覺得是我們大人做錯事情但是卻讓孩子來承擔後果臺北海洋科技大學的孩子他們去報名了在報名的第一時間他們沒有被發現你們覺得他們資格符合然後就讓他們一路一路打"},{"start":640.262,"end":640.422,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":671.203,"end":671.303,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":693.306,"end":720.306,"text":"班委員這部分我想當時會發生這個原因主要是因為在系統上開放給非學的這個我們都知道我們都知道對那這部分後來我們協調的是說我們也跟學校方也請學校方跟學生們來同學們能做一個良好的一個溝通好署長你說你跟學校方溝通你請學校跟孩子溝通但是上場努力拼活的是孩子這部分其實我們後來得到的消息是其實孩子們他們同學們其實最在乎的是這個制度能不能永久就是說他們"},{"start":721.127,"end":740.207,"text":"明年後年他們是不是可以依然去做這樣的一個參賽的制度那這部分我們的確也打算在專一專二專三的部分列入明年的一個賽事的一個資格裡面那這部分今年是因為競賽規程已經在那個地方我們不得不請他們取消部長你自己有小孩同時他也有在打球對但是在明年的部分我們的確我們要往這部分來競賽"},{"start":741.769,"end":741.949,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"150866","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150866","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec03758ebc687d5acbe1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a6bd9c4a74a059f27d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"10:21:54 - 10:28:10","影片長度":"00:06:16","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:28:10+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":376,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:21:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.915343750000002,"end":14.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.931593750000001,"end":18.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.133468750000002,"end":23.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.976593750000003,"end":26.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.60471875,"end":31.418468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.890968750000003,"end":34.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.11409375,"end":36.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.53159375,"end":37.932218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.96596875,"end":41.830343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.16784375,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.892843750000004,"end":50.132843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.74034375,"end":57.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.31721875,"end":61.945343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.962218750000005,"end":67.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.85159375,"end":72.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.96471875,"end":75.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.76596875,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.83721875,"end":80.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.67221875,"end":82.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.37659375000001,"end":85.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.92471875000001,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.20284375,"end":88.89471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.82284375,"end":92.72534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.97846875,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.63596875,"end":106.56284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.93409375,"end":109.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.61284375000001,"end":115.21971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.21534375,"end":119.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.45096875,"end":124.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.58534375,"end":128.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.68159375000002,"end":132.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.44471875000002,"end":137.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.37659375,"end":137.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.64221875,"end":141.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.30846875,"end":147.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.75471875000002,"end":160.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.16596875000002,"end":163.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.92096875000001,"end":166.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.22846875000002,"end":169.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.02971875,"end":173.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.94034375,"end":175.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.30721875,"end":177.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.67409375,"end":178.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.42909375000002,"end":181.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.42846875,"end":188.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.84096875,"end":191.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.37221875,"end":198.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.97034375,"end":202.56471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.94846875000002,"end":206.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.59346875,"end":208.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.38221875000002,"end":210.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.00221875000003,"end":216.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.26284375,"end":221.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.22409375,"end":224.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.94096875000002,"end":225.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.22346875000002,"end":232.09596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.70346875,"end":239.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.50409375,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.32596875000002,"end":247.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.19471875000002,"end":252.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.53159375,"end":255.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.93596875000003,"end":259.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.90596875,"end":262.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.56346875,"end":266.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.74034375,"end":267.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.95096875,"end":270.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.03909375,"end":272.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.33846875,"end":279.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.47659375,"end":283.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.71221875000003,"end":288.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.52159375,"end":294.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.95534375,"end":296.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.90846875,"end":298.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.17409375,"end":302.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.62909375000004,"end":315.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.75784375,"end":321.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.15784375000004,"end":324.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.39784375,"end":331.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.33346875,"end":337.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.89784375000005,"end":342.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.92659375,"end":345.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.49596875000003,"end":373.10346875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.956,"end":33.834,"text":"在台灣民主發展的過程當中其實民主進步黨一直對台灣有很多的貢獻那民主進步黨有很多的前輩我也非常的敬重那我今天就要特別講蔡同龍前輩蔡同龍過去在民主進步黨他有一個尊稱叫做蔡公投"},{"start":35.308,"end":60.187,"text":"蔡公投、蔡同榮先生在過去的立法院裡面有兩個很重要的主張一個就是希望公投可以跟大選合併舉行然後讓我們的公民意志可以充分地顯現也讓今天透過提高投票率能夠形塑一個有民意基礎的公投決定另外一個就是他提出了藐視國會罪"},{"start":62.296,"end":88.732,"text":"希望能夠讓我們的立法院能夠不負選民所託能夠充分行使立法院該有的調查權然後能夠監督政府然後為民喉舌但我這邊非常遺憾的這兩件事情都被今天的民進黨今天的民進黨的立委推翻了"},{"start":89.898,"end":115.047,"text":"蔡同榮先生的心願變成遺願而這個遺願民進黨全部推翻我先講公投民進黨現在最近在談到所謂的有關於他的國會改革版本他一直講說時空環境不同在我看來只是屁股位置不同啦很簡單一個道理就以蔡同榮講的公投我也提出了公投的修法"},{"start":116.277,"end":137.567,"text":"民進黨多年來都是主張公投跟大選要合併舉行陳其邁也曾經有主張而且話說得非常重說反對公投綁大選的人其實就是把民意視為洪水猛獸後來好不容易公投跟大選合併舉行之後民進黨因為認為對他的整個政治的利益不利"},{"start":138.683,"end":165.632,"text":"於是又把公投跟大選拆開來 閹割了公投從此之後 台灣的公投又被關進鐵籠裡面如果民進黨真的認為時空環境變了公投從該併大選 變成是不該併大選那也沒關係 你就一以蓋之的尊重是改變了這個形式 是嗎不到兩年 接下來民進黨提出修憲"},{"start":167.267,"end":180.7,"text":"要做公民副決他竟然又把他跟大選合併在一起說真的我沒有看過轉彎轉這麼快轉彎轉這麼大的政黨而今天回到我們國會聽證調查藐視國會的相關的立法我不客氣的說"},{"start":193.218,"end":220.508,"text":"國會聽證調查的制度談了20年沒有建制那是過去立法院的怠惰啊是對不起我們的選民對不起我們中華民國憲法我在這邊 擔任立法委員也不過 兩個月我跟各位說我真的深刻的感受到陳其邁口中的無牙的老虎是什麼滋味啊因為沒有調查 充分的調查權沒有充分的聽證權"},{"start":222.284,"end":243.975,"text":"因為對於官員說謊、不實陳述、反質詢、拒絕提供資料、敷衍提供資料所有今天在立法院我們見到的我這兩個月見證的官員們的傲慢跟囂張立法委員基本上通通束手無策完全是良心事業啦"},{"start":248.257,"end":262.246,"text":"我今天在立法院說謊不說謊看我官員高興啦我提供資料不提供資料看我官員高興啦那我想請問您這樣的立法院他能夠充分發揮憲政的職能嗎所以這是為什麼今天新的國會我們要提出國會改革"},{"start":272.076,"end":295.985,"text":"的法案我們要落實聽證調查制度我們要來制定藐視國會的處罰當然聽證調查的制度如何進行這是修法過程當中可以廣納各方的意見但是絕對不可以像民進黨今天提出的版本這種自我閹割跟所謂自我放棄"},{"start":298.15,"end":324.164,"text":"簡直就是民進黨版的另類行政權的葵花寶典只是行政權經過民進黨版的這個國會改革提案它的葵花寶典行政權掌握神功但志工的是立法院的職權藐視國會到底該用什麼樣的處罰方式這是立法我們可以討論的但是如果沒有處罰方式"},{"start":325.438,"end":342.458,"text":"我跟各位講一樣回到我們這兩個月看到的立法院變成官員的良心事業他高興說謊就說謊他不提供資料不提供資料他消極應付你就應付你這樣的國會跟廢物的差別在哪裡我不知道啊"},{"start":344.011,"end":372.851,"text":"所以為什麼今天在這邊我也常在講國會改革不是為了一黨一派國會改革甚至是為了民進黨的理念跟理想所以民進黨過去20年來一路走來主張支持的東西怎麼今天全部拋空把它忘光光而提出一個自我閹割自我限縮然後完全為官員服務的葵花至公保點呢我無法理解 以上"}]}},{"id":"150865","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150865","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecbe6e403a8dc373026f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a6615262e27cf63ed25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"10:18:41 - 10:24:55","影片長度":"00:06:14","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:24:55+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":374,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:18:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.72596875,"end":8.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.544093750000002,"end":18.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.605968750000002,"end":35.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.63721875,"end":36.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.987218750000004,"end":40.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.53096875,"end":42.454718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.893468750000004,"end":47.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.500343750000006,"end":48.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.12034375,"end":50.352218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.62221875,"end":53.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.47409375,"end":55.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.98846875,"end":64.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.52721875,"end":76.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.57596875,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.87471875,"end":83.17409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.74346875,"end":95.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.50971875,"end":98.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.35721875,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.87596875000001,"end":102.36096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.66471875,"end":104.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.80784375,"end":107.01846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.28846875,"end":116.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.51909375000001,"end":121.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.15971875000001,"end":148.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.63221875000002,"end":150.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.40409375000002,"end":151.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.41659375,"end":152.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.98596875,"end":155.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.71534375000002,"end":171.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.26159375,"end":183.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.17096875000001,"end":196.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.75971875000002,"end":202.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.47596875000002,"end":208.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.60596875000002,"end":215.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.79034375,"end":218.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.08534375000002,"end":221.51534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.00471875000002,"end":223.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.51909375000002,"end":225.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.98721875,"end":227.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.57346875000002,"end":235.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.58471875,"end":236.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.39471875,"end":253.57784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.94909375,"end":256.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.63221875,"end":260.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.42909375,"end":261.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.67784375,"end":277.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.89471875000004,"end":280.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.78034375000004,"end":283.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.21034375,"end":286.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.34034375000005,"end":292.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.55909375000005,"end":296.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.06909375000004,"end":298.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.53284375000004,"end":300.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.96284375000005,"end":304.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.38846875,"end":306.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.63284375,"end":307.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.38784375,"end":309.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.58596875,"end":312.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.92721875,"end":314.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.37846875,"end":337.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.68284375,"end":343.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.21346875,"end":344.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.86721875,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.56659375000004,"end":356.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.44346875,"end":358.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.77659375,"end":362.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.20221875000004,"end":367.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.72034375000004,"end":371.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.92221875,"end":372.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.10346875000005,"end":374.79096875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.742,"end":34.876,"text":"好 謝謝主席今天現場有來自我們政府各部會的代表有來自我們民間的專業代表有來自醫學界來自法律界來自社福界的代表出席還有我們立法院的各位同仁我有記得在我們人工生殖法訂定的時候那時候我是一個大學四年級的學生"},{"start":37.714,"end":39.763,"text":"當時我跟我們學校的臺大女媛社"},{"start":40.578,"end":69.524,"text":"一起參與了聯署的抗議因為我們認為現行的人工生殖法是對於單身女性是對於女性的生育自主權的一個前置及限制所以今天我能夠來參與由我們立法院召開的人工生殖法修正草案的公聽會我認為這個人工生殖法已經來到了必須要修正"},{"start":70.084,"end":82.752,"text":"必須要保障單身女性以及女同志生育自主權的時刻等這麼一刻我們等了非常多年深如剛剛前面很多委員所提到了我們等了很久了召開公聽會就是為了要收集來自社會各界不同的意見以利我們的行政部門來訂定出草案"},{"start":95.778,"end":118.633,"text":"來定定出未來可以來施行的法律那我想公聽會開始就是收集意見的開始那我們不能只有聽一聽就結束了最重要的是後續我們要去進行人工生殖法的修法關於人工生殖法應該要如何修訂正如剛剛前面很多委員所說的"},{"start":119.253,"end":135.815,"text":"這是一個困難的議題因為我們當中有不同的主張但是關於人工生殖法是否要修訂我認為這個答案是非常明確的我們已經來到了必須要修訂的時刻那根據我們立法院法治局自己所提出來的建議"},{"start":136.676,"end":155.47,"text":"我們現行的人工生殖法基本從法律層面來說是違反了憲法所保障的生育權以及健康權因為現行的法治架構是以疾病治療為立論出發所以當單身女性及女同志"},{"start":156.772,"end":180.876,"text":"沒有在這樣的架構理念的時候我們的生育自主權是沒有獲得保障是獲得歧視的同時現行的人工生殖法也違背了台灣國家人權委員會所指出的違背了目前憲法所給予保障的平等權所以我非常的希望在今天的公聽會之後我們的行政部門能夠來加速來"},{"start":184.741,"end":184.881,"text":"吳沛憶委員"},{"start":203.582,"end":203.602,"text":"吳沛憶議員"},{"start":226.041,"end":226.061,"text":"吳沛憶議員"},{"start":236.656,"end":253.048,"text":"那我們能不能夠來生育生養孩子這同時也是女性的選擇權所以今天站在這個地方我必須要去傳達來自社會很多單身女性目前所遇到的困擾我記得很多朋友在這幾年都有去動亂因為我們是年過35歲到40歲之前這段時間的單身女性"},{"start":260.573,"end":285.624,"text":"所以還保有這個選擇權還在人生的十字路口的時候非常的擔心因為時間生理上面的因素我們過了一個時間會不會就沒有失去了這樣的選擇權但是呢這些單身女性去動卵卻因為她沒有選擇婚姻她沒有法律上面的配偶事實上是卵子是沒有辦法解凍的"},{"start":288.419,"end":309.029,"text":"所以這樣子的困擾我認為我們政府一定要去正視有這麼多單身女性目前正在面臨生命當中的難題政府不能無視這修法當然有很多意見上面整合的困難但我希望我們可以趕快政府應該了做單身女性"},{"start":310.099,"end":310.119,"text":"吳沛憶"},{"start":337.728,"end":337.748,"text":"吳沛憶議員"},{"start":358.803,"end":358.823,"text":"吳沛憶"}]}},{"id":"150864","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150864","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec61a3b70e3695f64115c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6a950302871400d155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"10:09:52 - 10:23:36","影片長度":"00:13:44","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":824,"end_time":"2024-04-03T10:23:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T10:09:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.18284375000000003,"end":0.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.42659375,"end":11.235968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.29909375,"end":12.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.31596875,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.822218750000001,"end":12.872843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.615343750000001,"end":155.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.38221875000002,"end":213.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.93846875000003,"end":248.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.01534375000003,"end":235.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.12721875000003,"end":249.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.07221875000002,"end":264.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.79971875,"end":267.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.81659375000004,"end":265.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.77846875,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.68971875,"end":284.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.42534375,"end":304.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.67971875,"end":308.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.89846875,"end":310.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.11346875000004,"end":311.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.44221875,"end":311.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.01596875,"end":322.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.60909375,"end":324.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.00971875000005,"end":326.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.46096875,"end":326.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.52846875,"end":326.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.61284375,"end":326.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.45659375,"end":329.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.89471875000004,"end":333.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.35846875000004,"end":337.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.07096875,"end":338.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.29846875000004,"end":344.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.82096875,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.40659375,"end":352.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.04784375,"end":351.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.68471875,"end":352.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.75221875,"end":353.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.83221875000004,"end":354.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.86596875000004,"end":354.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.09784375000004,"end":355.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.46409375,"end":363.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.40034375000005,"end":364.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.86846875000003,"end":364.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.59409375,"end":367.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.78784375000004,"end":369.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.19659375000003,"end":371.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.21346875,"end":372.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.81221875,"end":397.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.11221875,"end":401.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.95159375000003,"end":401.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.13284375,"end":488.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.44409375000004,"end":545.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.59971875,"end":491.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.1828437500001,"end":513.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.45471875,"end":528.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.55971875,"end":532.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.7609687500001,"end":541.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.2790937500001,"end":546.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.78096875,"end":660.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.4284687500001,"end":561.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.37909375,"end":692.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.8047187500001,"end":693.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.8803437500001,"end":735.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.0390937500001,"end":704.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.71346875,"end":794.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.0459687500002,"end":819.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.2322187500001,"end":818.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.7678437500001,"end":823.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":822.6028437500001,"end":822.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.78846875,"end":822.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":822.8390937500001,"end":822.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.8897187500002,"end":822.90659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.305,"end":0.485,"text":"主席"},{"start":13.926,"end":22.869,"text":"市長好先前台灣男籃參加亞洲杯資格賽的問題鬧得沸沸揚揚那我想也不只是這次出問題之前其實很多的運動項目我們要組國家隊出國比賽的時候都會有一些爭議冒出來那凸顯出選手們要組國家隊出國比賽的時候從集訓的時程"},{"start":36.733,"end":37.013,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":51.624,"end":52.444,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":72.629,"end":92.701,"text":"特別是職業選手非常重要的資產那代表國家出賽對選手來講其實是一個賭注如果整個比賽過程中那身體健康拿下好成績那當然是最好的結果可是如果比賽期間受傷了那小傷害這個小則休養了幾週幾個月那嚴重的話或許整個職業生涯就報銷了那講白一點選手並沒有欠民眾或欠國家什麼"},{"start":102.427,"end":128.575,"text":"那運動員跟一般職業的人一樣就是說他都需要有合理的保障跟支持那他們也有家庭跟經濟的負擔壓力所以我們必須要給選手更好的這個保障做選手最大的後盾那不讓選手發生意外後會求助無門的現象那所以我覺得我們給予選手最好的保障之後選手也會比較願意來參加國家隊"},{"start":130.396,"end":154.476,"text":"好,那當天公聽會我們有討論幾個方案那當天鄭署長也有在場那最後結論是說在短期的方案是要檢討國家代表隊培訓選手及對職員因培訓或參賽制短期失能、身心障礙或死亡發起未問禁這個辦法要修這個辦法那針對短期失能"},{"start":156.357,"end":161.423,"text":"請問次長這部分的進度我們到哪裡了那接下來7月左右我們開始有瓊斯杯的籃球邀請賽9月又有這個U18青棒的這個錦標賽"},{"start":176.579,"end":194.737,"text":"那接下來那麼多的國際賽事而且我們還要考量到集訓的期間或許這個所謂的這個保障這個保險就要開始了所以我們必須要加速作業所以我現在是要請教是說我們趕得上就是我們現在的作業的辦法這個辦法的修正"},{"start":195.598,"end":195.618,"text":"市長"},{"start":214.654,"end":234.63,"text":"謝謝林委員。我想在3月14日委員這邊大概召開了記者會。那之後呢,署裡面這邊也在積極在做一些的這個研議。那短期的部分我們會就有關那個剛剛委員提到的衛生金的這個辦法的部分會來做一個修正。那因為這個辦法的部分基本上還要再做行政的公告。"},{"start":235.29,"end":262.689,"text":"所以預定應該是五月中五月五月份大概這個辦法的部分大概可以這個公告完成這個相關的一個修法的一個程序所以大概應該是六七月份之後剛剛提到的七八月七月秋十八月應該就可以來做一個試用至於所需的這個經費的部分的話我們會先從這個公務預算那麼來做一個處理如果有不足的話那我們會訂入到這個國光獎章來申請這個動資預備金的方式來做一個處理"},{"start":264.89,"end":284.249,"text":"所以不會讓這個財源有入不敷出的狀況長期來講我們也在做一些的這個評估啦這個先期的評估的部分是不是在國體法上面來做一些的修正能夠把包含的這個學生選手啦或者是職業選手或者是國家代表隊啦等等他們的一個保險的部分能夠有更周延的這樣的安定"},{"start":285.63,"end":310.353,"text":"我們當天也有討論到說其實中長期或許可以依循所謂的學生團體保險這樣的模式建立一個所謂的體育保險的專法那用長期的制度來保障這些選手的權益那也是要請教次長就是你剛剛也有提到就是說用一個專法 體育保險的專法不見得是專法我們來評估啦也有開始在國體法上所以現在有開始在進行這個可習性的評估"},{"start":312.754,"end":318.456,"text":"當然我還是要強調像籃球的名將張宗憲他就有提到說他20歲開始打國家隊我們林委員的時間暫停還是一句話各位看清楚你前面左右的人好不好"},{"start":340.387,"end":340.607,"text":"好的 我們時間繼續"},{"start":371.22,"end":397.362,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝主席就是說張宗憲這個選手他說他20歲開始打國家隊那15年過去了保險也還沒搞定那所以真的就是說這個事情我們不能再等所有的15年所以期待次長跟署長的努力趕快把這個東西透過這個你說修國體法我們把它可長可久的一個保障的制度好嗎"},{"start":398.143,"end":400.264,"text":"從根本來講選手的保險或參與國家隊的權利義務還有國家隊的組訓等等的問題其實都跟簽訂團體協約有關"},{"start":416.335,"end":422.72,"text":"職棒發展相對健全所以2022年中職已經跟球員公會簽訂了團體協約棒球都有一個模組模式可以參考我想其他運動像籃球、足球、排球等等什麼時候可以簽訂團體協約"},{"start":435.23,"end":435.93,"text":"請問討論的狀況如何?半年內有沒有辦法可以達成簽署?"},{"start":459.525,"end":480.809,"text":"身為這個最高的這個運動這個主管機關我覺得應該擔起這個重任來協助簽訂這個協約那不然到時候又發生哪個運動選手然後出賽沒有保險哪個選手要爭取什麼出場費等等那竟然還被協會反問說打不好要不要獎懲這種那麼荒謬的這個問題所以我想署長您認為像這個事情半年內有沒有辦法達成簽署"},{"start":488.51,"end":495.835,"text":"報告委員,我們從昨天開始主要是算是一個預備會議,就是說我們藉由中職副秘書長來給我們一個分享他過去談了兩年半,跟工會談了兩年半這樣的期程,中間怎麼去談,誰來談,然後怎麼方式,那我們也請了政大的一位教授,他屬於法律專長,那他也要多方的認可,那由他來協助把這樣這個"},{"start":510.885,"end":511.185,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":532.856,"end":533.516,"text":"國訓中心立即就預防性的下架"},{"start":561.991,"end":563.212,"text":"上禮拜本有跟委員有到國訓中心去做考察"},{"start":587.283,"end":613.209,"text":"國訓中心的報告也有說我們在巴黎當地會租借這個公寓來處理膳食那包含提供飯類、餐點、面食等等也有冷凍調理包可以來加熱也可以採取就是會當地採購食材來做處理那本席看了一下這個膳食公寓的這個地理位置距離選手村大約5到10分鐘的車程那如果到這個"},{"start":616.63,"end":616.85,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":631.767,"end":660.028,"text":"那我想請教是說那我們膳食公寓內的這個食材的保存的條件跟設備是否充足我想因為最近又發生這些問題我這個而且對於選手要代表國家的選手來講這特別的重要那我們如何確保這些冷凍的這個條理包那它加復熱加工後的食安當地購買食材當然是最好可是"},{"start":661.545,"end":661.805,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":692.465,"end":707.351,"text":"謝謝委員關心我請鄭署長報告委員這部分我們也是跟一位台商一個台商公司一個國際的公司來進行包括在當地的新鮮的食材的供應以及真空調理包的部分那我們是在儲藏的部分會有冷藏的這個設備"},{"start":709.012,"end":733.33,"text":"當然煮完之後馬上就會熱食馬上就送到我們的選手的身上去所以在食物的保鮮的部分應該是沒有太大的問題那在針對當地的一個實案的資訊的部分除了他的當地的我們的台商的這個公司來協助之外當地的台商的餐廳也會給予必要的一個資源那我們的農業部也會提供必要的這樣一個相關的資訊來提供給我們"},{"start":735.765,"end":763.227,"text":"好那最後30秒就是網球一姐謝淑薇要重返女雙的這個她已經重返女雙的世界球後那她有表態說她要搭檔單打的選手來代表台灣隊出席這個巴黎奧運那上個月的時候她有給出五位搭檔的人選那不曉得要跟誰組隊那現在台灣排在女子單雙打前三百名的選手除了謝淑薇之外還有其他七個人"},{"start":763.968,"end":765.409,"text":"請問體育署這部分到底什麼時候能確定他的搭檔的部分"},{"start":791.204,"end":793.511,"text":"那些所有教練跟網協真的有做好協調了嗎?"},{"start":795.18,"end":811.733,"text":"報告委員這部分我們正在做協調那大部分他的教練團的部分應該九成都沒有問題了那現在只剩下其中一位的我們本國的教練目前在薪資上面還在做協商但是呢他的搭檔的部分這部分可能是就是當時謝書友來書裡面有跟我談就是說他會交由他的戰術教練來跟他進行討論之後才會去做責定這部分正在進行當中OK好謝謝謝謝署長謝謝次長辛苦謝謝召委"}]}},{"id":"150863","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150863","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecb05a3ad2871669bbe1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a679b5a1982509e2505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:11:57 - 10:21:37","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:21:37+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":580,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:11:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.434093750000002,"end":45.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.79596875,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.33409375,"end":73.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.70721875000001,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.51221875,"end":84.91221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.30034375000001,"end":112.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.12721875000001,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.87784375000001,"end":127.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.07846875,"end":138.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.28346875,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.92284375,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.60971875,"end":199.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.02909375000002,"end":202.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.02471875,"end":202.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.35346875000002,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.07034375,"end":207.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.89659375000002,"end":214.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.37721875000003,"end":215.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.01846875,"end":215.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.03534375,"end":215.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.06909375,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.32221875000002,"end":216.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.37221875,"end":220.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.21159375000002,"end":232.90596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.29409375,"end":237.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.61409375000002,"end":247.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.68846875000003,"end":279.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.63284375,"end":305.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.38409375000003,"end":309.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.67034375000003,"end":315.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.76221875000005,"end":324.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.02659375,"end":326.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.42721875,"end":327.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.87846875,"end":329.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.19034375,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.13909375000003,"end":338.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.72471875,"end":340.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.05784375,"end":342.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.84659375,"end":347.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.29721875,"end":354.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.86159375,"end":355.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.85284375000003,"end":379.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.75221875,"end":411.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.11846875000003,"end":412.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.28284375000004,"end":420.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.28159375,"end":426.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.66471875,"end":430.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.23784375,"end":436.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.05971875,"end":440.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.14346875,"end":450.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.89721875000004,"end":454.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.77846875,"end":480.51284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.76596875,"end":508.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.54221875,"end":509.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.97659375,"end":578.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.21909375,"end":579.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.65346875,"end":579.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.8559687500001,"end":579.90659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.95,"end":29.743,"text":"謝謝主席首先感謝主席今天安排的公聽會但也因為今天早上的地震那非常多我們邀請的學者專家可能出席的人數可能連一半都不到所以因應這個特殊的狀況也回應本席一再的呼籲這麼嚴肅的"},{"start":31.904,"end":57.421,"text":"國會改革的議案我們需要更擴大專業界的意見參詢要更擴大社會公民團體的參與我再一次呼籲在公聽會的部分是應當再著雨增加不宜直接在沒有完整的社會共識之前就進行法案的逐條的審議我再次重申我的理由那也因為今天上午發生的這個地震的事項"},{"start":58.442,"end":58.602,"text":"2024年4月3日"},{"start":73.78,"end":89.316,"text":"但是今天在討論國會改革的議案好像大家坐上了時光機回到了2016甚至2012或是更早之前的時空環境因為非常多的在野黨委員一再的提到歷史的文件"},{"start":90.097,"end":111.877,"text":"提到民主進步黨過去在2016的版本甚至2012的版本甚至又提到在林卓水委員擔任立委的時期他是1992到2007那個時間是更又往前提所以修法不是一個時空凝滯的思維"},{"start":113.326,"end":138.169,"text":"修法不是木乃伊修法不是修文化資產一定要復舊如舊所以我們來檢視過去的條文跟今天的精進大有必要我們要再一次的強調誰說民主進步黨在2024的時空背景提出來的法案一定要把2016的條文一字不漏全文照草"},{"start":139.386,"end":162.892,"text":"如果這樣 修法就沒有意義了 它就不是與時俱進了立法院有一個大家都非常清楚熟悉的制度設計叫做借期不連續借期不連續的制度設計 就是每一個借期所提的法案必須在新的借期重新審視之後 重送新案"},{"start":163.692,"end":173.406,"text":"因為每一個新的屆期他是新的民意的代表他是新的思維的產生所以在屆期不連續的狀況之下當然可以就過去的議案重新審視"},{"start":179.734,"end":198.977,"text":"所以本席這一次是擔任民進黨2024國會小組改革小組的召集人當我在跟小組還有專家學者在研議這個條文的時候我們確實虛心的檢視的拿出2016地震我可以時間暫停嗎主席等一下情緒整理好我們再來沒關係先暫停"},{"start":211.926,"end":211.946,"text":"好 繼續"},{"start":221.44,"end":241.475,"text":"我作為民主進步黨2024國會改革小組的召集人在調整法案 審視法案 延提新法案的同時我們確實負責任的虛心檢視了2016的版本我們提出很多的精進 我們提出很多的檢視我要跟大家來說明 大家可以回顧一下2016到2024這8年 民主黨 民主進步黨作為國會的多數"},{"start":247.879,"end":259.464,"text":"如果我們想要強行通過任何的議案如在野黨委員所說的是絕對無堅不摧的可是為什麼民主進步黨沒有在這八年的期間利用國會多數的時刻來通過2016我們的版本因為兩個原因我們非常嚴肅的去審視了民進黨當時的版本並沒有獲得社會全面的共識"},{"start":275.732,"end":291.965,"text":"所以告訴我們要再聆聽社會的聲音第二個理由我們也非常清楚的去審視了大法官誓字585號乃至於其他的釋憲文我們過去提出來的調查跟聽證權確實有與憲法漢格之處我們經過這樣子的審視我們予以自治予以檢視讓草案維持是草案而不是成為最終的法案"},{"start":305.555,"end":322.651,"text":"今天本席站在這裡我們的身份叫做立法委員法案會隨著時空背景有不同的思維跟不同的討論沒有道理說今天在談2024的國會改革版本就是要挑戰民進黨跟2016的主張不同"},{"start":325.08,"end":346.829,"text":"我必須很抱歉的說 這8年的時空光景 有部分委員連選區都不曉得換了幾輪 有部分的政治工作者連他的政黨都可以一再的跳槽 立場都可以改變 難道法案的內容精神演繹不能夠精進嗎"},{"start":348.359,"end":355.558,"text":"所以今天在這裡我們請大家審視民主進步黨最新的條文版本我們在"},{"start":356.892,"end":361.194,"text":"第8章用兩節來處理調查權第一節處理國會院會層級的調查權第二節來處理委員會層次的調閱小組民主進步黨這一次的法案是有調查權但是調查權的行使不可以與憲法所規範的事項"},{"start":379.841,"end":389.927,"text":"跟立委職權相關的議案相符者不可溢出所以我們在我們的第8章第一節或第二節都針對調查權的行使進行了明確的規範所以民進黨的版本是可調查但是在憲法的約束上有限制然後當然要強化調查過程當中的保密作為"},{"start":405.197,"end":425.772,"text":"所以請大家在評論民進黨2024的版本的時候不要一味的去帶風向好像民進黨這一次依舊對於大家所理解的叫調查權是完全不接受的NO我們也參照了大家的意見如果對於調查權的行使"},{"start":426.773,"end":426.793,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":441.246,"end":466.487,"text":"文件或是這些相關的說明的時候我們民主進步黨的版本依舊也是得以來施以行政法所以這些我們都採納參採就如同我們的昭偉他是專業的法律人他自己對於藐視國會罪的部分他個人的版本也是否定了能夠直接予以刑責來處理他因為他認為這就溢出了"},{"start":469.89,"end":475.654,"text":"議出了憲法所授權的範圍但我不會說吳宗憲召委的版本跟其他委員的不同我就來挑戰誰對或誰錯我們今天在這裡務實的來討論議案因為時間有限我也請大家能夠來多多檢視民主進步黨這一次國會改革的版本"},{"start":492.866,"end":507.875,"text":"國會有權就要有責大家非常重視的權責相符的部分調查權的部分人事同意權的行使讓它更加嚴謹的部分民主進步黨都予以修正入法"},{"start":508.695,"end":514.363,"text":"責任政治國會對於委員自身的專業問政的各項幕僚機關的協助乃至於委員自律以及國會問政品質的苛責問責我們都予以含納"},{"start":524.358,"end":527.161,"text":"所以我們是一個非常周延權責相符的國會改革方案而不是指往擴權的一端去無限上綱我也非常感謝出席的專家學者們在線上聆聽的公民朋友們大家可以好好去審視每一個委員乃至於黨團所提出的版本"},{"start":546.437,"end":560.891,"text":"是不是達到權責相符的國會改革的本質是不是有遵循憲法所授予的國會能夠行使的權限是不是有違反人權之餘"},{"start":562.512,"end":562.532,"text":"謝謝吳委員"}]}},{"id":"150862","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150862","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec1729730afa8b50f96f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a61c587096f49c00dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"10:09:59 - 10:18:36","影片長度":"00:08:37","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:18:36+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":517,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:09:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.09846875000000001,"end":1.5834687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.172843750000002,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.46346875,"end":24.145343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.49971875,"end":50.588468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.66846875,"end":87.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.18596875,"end":94.61534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.32409375,"end":95.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.79659375,"end":96.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.74159375,"end":97.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.39534375000001,"end":111.40596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.81096875,"end":121.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.96971875000001,"end":130.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.49159375000002,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.10909375,"end":153.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.52596875,"end":154.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.48784375,"end":157.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.82909375,"end":162.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.14909375000002,"end":164.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.15284375000002,"end":169.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.16471875000002,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.57284375,"end":180.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.67346875,"end":183.61409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.12034375000002,"end":192.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.25409375,"end":203.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.54346875000002,"end":203.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.33659375000002,"end":214.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.25034375,"end":221.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.84846875000002,"end":246.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.63784375,"end":253.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.78034375000001,"end":254.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.70846875,"end":255.23159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.46784375000001,"end":255.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.39596875,"end":262.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.01096875,"end":263.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.39909375,"end":264.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.85034375000004,"end":265.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.76159375000003,"end":282.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.24846875000003,"end":284.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.23971875,"end":287.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.95221875000004,"end":290.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.58471875000004,"end":299.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.37659375000004,"end":309.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.25284375,"end":313.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.18471875,"end":312.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.29846875000004,"end":313.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.69909375000003,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.28034375000004,"end":322.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.39721875000004,"end":331.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.11409375,"end":337.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.55971875,"end":349.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.93909375000004,"end":345.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.42846875000004,"end":348.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.96784375000004,"end":353.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.14284375,"end":365.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.31909375000004,"end":371.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.76159375000003,"end":376.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.27534375000005,"end":380.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.16971875,"end":382.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.92471875,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.90346875,"end":386.11409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.38409375000003,"end":407.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.98409375,"end":410.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.59971875,"end":416.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.57346875,"end":429.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.03971875,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.14784375000005,"end":468.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.90284375000005,"end":469.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.45971875000004,"end":485.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.33471875000004,"end":500.79659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.03284375000004,"end":503.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.20534375000005,"end":505.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.97721875,"end":515.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.09346875,"end":518.5490937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.51,"end":1.19,"text":"主席還有各位與會的"},{"start":14.13,"end":35.322,"text":"人工生殖大概就是民間所慣稱的我們的事管嬰兒我們今天應該討論的是誰可以使用這個人工生殖的技術因為我們結婚率事實上是越來越低當然也面對到的是我們的初婚年齡越來越高一直往上升還有越來越多人是選擇單身撫養子女的"},{"start":37.843,"end":41.367,"text":"從民國81年的2.21%逐年升到112年4.12%未認養的會分生子女比例上從1.45%也上升到2.5億"},{"start":51.701,"end":69.929,"text":"可是年輕的時候有些人可能就選擇了動軟可是我們法院有個障礙就是可動軟可是好像不可以輕易的來解凍使用因為要達到這樣子的一個解凍使用可能會有一些要件在從2020年到2020年在達到醫院動軟後平均使用大概8.4可是在美國的話這個一個比例大概38%"},{"start":80.732,"end":80.992,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":98.37,"end":98.65,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":123.857,"end":124.017,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":148.206,"end":148.446,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":177.691,"end":177.871,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":204.577,"end":205.058,"text":"現行規定"},{"start":223.868,"end":225.989,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會"},{"start":247.891,"end":269.065,"text":"當下社會是期待要將單身女性以婚配偶納入人工生殖法的適用不過當然比較有爭議的就是代理孕母我想前面的一些專家學者都有提到代理孕母的一些期待值不過台灣為什麼會一直在有這樣子的一個禁止"},{"start":270.373,"end":298.866,"text":"陳菁威委員講到說30年又再30年我覺得事實上是有很多爭議事實上是沒有辦法去解決的尤其我剛剛前面提的時候已經有很多兒少團體對於要開放就已經從兒少的角度上來看就已經覺得有一些爭議了更何況事實上是代理孕母那這是我們收集到的相關的一些資訊就是說有沒有對於女性身體買賣的印度事實上是"},{"start":299.445,"end":299.485,"text":"主席"},{"start":321.637,"end":324.618,"text":"新委員會議後面的那一位"},{"start":350.246,"end":351.046,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":380.322,"end":385.346,"text":"臺灣事實上的確有52歲的阿嬤在幫自己的女兒做代理孕母"},{"start":408.086,"end":431.654,"text":"到底要叫媽媽還是叫外婆呢這有一些人倫上的一些問題還有懷胎才有母親嗎有懷孩子才能夠愛小孩可是如果未懷孕了是不是就不愛小孩這些問題點到底能不能在這個事當中有能夠一一的去解決那更重要的是我覺得對我來自兒少團體的話"},{"start":433.365,"end":437.84,"text":"依照額權公約第3條就有規定要考量到最佳利益"},{"start":438.581,"end":438.881,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":468.922,"end":469.322,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":488.426,"end":488.706,"text":"主席"},{"start":518.138,"end":518.158,"text":"感謝"}]}},{"id":"150861","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150861","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ece523838e7b73316ce1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a675542754bc7705995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"10:06:25 - 10:11:49","影片長度":"00:05:24","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:11:49+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":324,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:06:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.87784375,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.796593750000003,"end":15.437843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.67409375,"end":16.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.88909375,"end":24.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.27596875,"end":28.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.29221875,"end":35.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.88596875,"end":43.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.27721875,"end":45.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.77909375,"end":61.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.91159375,"end":74.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.17534375000001,"end":89.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.68346875,"end":91.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.51846875000001,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.80096875000001,"end":96.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.36596875000001,"end":99.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.94784375,"end":100.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.26409375,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.37784375000001,"end":103.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.60971875000001,"end":108.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.26284375,"end":113.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.73034375,"end":125.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.71159375,"end":129.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.32284375,"end":133.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.40659375,"end":143.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.53159375,"end":159.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.00596875000002,"end":167.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.88659375,"end":176.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.52221875,"end":201.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.07534375,"end":227.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.26534375000003,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.45409375000003,"end":278.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.39659375,"end":323.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.72284375000004,"end":325.16159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.898,"end":35.315,"text":"主席：各位委員：各位先進：還有各位觀眾朋友們大家好這次由我還有由本席還有其他的委員共同所提出的針對國會改革的法案我想很重要的目的是因為我們在這些年來我們看到其實立法權的職權無法伸張"},{"start":36.929,"end":60.598,"text":"立法院的重要的職權是在立法、審查預算還有監督政府的施政那麼要能夠真正的好好的去落實去實踐這些權利它必須有個重要的前提就是立法委員需要有足夠完整的政府資訊才能夠做出適當的監督以及判斷"},{"start":61.977,"end":89.045,"text":"但是我們知道目前就立法委員們首從上述能夠擁有的這個工具大概就只有執行權還有文件調閱權那麼在過去這些年裡面我們看到其實透過執行權和文件調閱權是有辦法能夠向政府機關取得最真實最正確最完整的資訊嗎"},{"start":90.771,"end":112.723,"text":"事實上並沒有在我進入立法院之後我也有發現其實來立法院接受質詢的政府官員們或者是我們可能會向政府機關請求調閱一些文件資訊可是"},{"start":114.813,"end":143.061,"text":"常常都是實問虛答或是提供一些不完整不正確的訊息那麼這個對於立法委員想要好好的去監督政府施政我覺得是有困難度的所謂公欲善其事必先利其器沒有足夠好的監督政府的工具手段是很難指導問題的核心我們沒有辦法無從判斷"},{"start":144.588,"end":166.929,"text":"到底政府機關所提供的這個相關的行政資訊是否正確尤其是在針對要去了解一些弊案或是行政措施的這個疏失的時候基本上我目前的工具是不足的也因為如此這次為什麼要提出強化這個國會監督的力量"},{"start":168.809,"end":174.721,"text":"我們沒有足夠的工具我們就沒有辦法好好的去行使我們立法委員的職權"},{"start":177.574,"end":201.135,"text":"那麼立法院職權行使法最近一次的修法是在107年在過去這些年間雖然陸陸續續大概每隔大概五六年六七年都會有一次修法但是呢其實都沒有修到真正的核心我必須說臺灣的政治環境在改變立法權和行政權的互動的制衡關係也在改變"},{"start":202.176,"end":227.063,"text":"我們講我們中華民國憲法是五權分立可是現在看起來這個五權分這個是相互制衡是相互平等嗎還是已經偏向嚴重的這個向行政權這個傾倒那麼整個行政跟立法的這個相互制衡的關係是已經出現了很大的這個偏離那麼所以在這裡"},{"start":228.339,"end":248.104,"text":"我們也發現在過去我們希望行政作為跟行政諮詢是必須要透明公開的那行政官員必須要尊重立法委員的職權並且接受民意代表的監督但是這些年我們看到這些要求事實上都沒有辦法做到而且"},{"start":248.644,"end":252.646,"text":"行政機關的總統作為已經偏離了憲法的原理那在這樣的情況之下我們怎麼能夠不去強化國會的監督力量呢否則立法委員只是狗肺火車行政機關根本就毫不"},{"start":265.57,"end":265.931,"text":"公聽會：翁曉玲"},{"start":285.811,"end":286.772,"text":"公聽會．立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":304.375,"end":304.795,"text":"李卓人議員"}]}},{"id":"150860","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150860","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecfbe1d0242a9b0a796f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a6ff17e4b1fda114c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"10:01:35 - 10:09:52","影片長度":"00:08:17","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T10:09:52+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":497,"start_time":"2024-04-03T10:01:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.754718750000002,"end":26.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.980343750000003,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.51221875,"end":88.01721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.20284375,"end":93.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.61096875000001,"end":102.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.13721875,"end":109.95471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.52846875,"end":129.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.59721875,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.65284375000002,"end":178.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.24346875,"end":193.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.28346875000003,"end":195.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.04659375,"end":207.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.57659375,"end":237.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.88409375,"end":256.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.22721875,"end":271.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.52846875,"end":275.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.68409375000005,"end":280.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.08409375,"end":298.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.80284375,"end":333.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.83534375000005,"end":335.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.06721875,"end":352.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.71846875,"end":376.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.52471875000003,"end":408.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.64221875000004,"end":411.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.54471875,"end":439.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.48534375,"end":442.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.13471875000005,"end":495.24471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.09,"end":0.393,"text":"金輝委員"},{"start":12.782,"end":36.469,"text":"主席各位委員各位官員還有現場的學者專家代表大家早稍早我們發生瑞士7.2的強震所以各地災情不斷傳出也讓我們在這邊一同祈願全國人民都平安無事今天講的範圍真的非常大因此我希望可以簡短表述完我所有事項的看法首先我們先從人工生殖擴大適用的部分談起"},{"start":37.689,"end":56.726,"text":"雖然法律的修正常常是專業與知識的累積但每一個政策推動都有一個觸動人心的故事我們今天要談的更不止於此而是好多好多期待可以成為媽媽的夥伴們的故事其實我本身也是透過人工生殖才有機會有寶寶也都要經過懷孕分娩的過程我是一個三寶媽我永遠記得寶寶誕生小小皺皺的手"},{"start":64.133,"end":93.414,"text":"迎接他的到來媽媽做了很多很多努力與準備我們不只教他吃飯走路學習成長這樣子的母愛我想不管處於婚姻關係或沒有都不會有任何的差別這幾十年來呢我們的社會已經進步了很多台灣的單身率在今年達到新高52%但每一位台灣女性都知道時間呢是現實而殘酷的"},{"start":95.623,"end":95.803,"text":"委員．陳菁徽"},{"start":110.623,"end":128.511,"text":"每一位台灣獨立女性都有資格選擇是否和何時走入這樣子的關係若我們還要用婚姻或是何種婚姻來加以限制女性是否生育其實真的太辛苦了是時候讓我們為所有想生的年輕人解開婚育一體的束縛"},{"start":130.471,"end":150.816,"text":"當一個媽媽並不容易必須要有無比的勇氣有歡笑淚水決心來面對成為一個母親的課題所有在場許多夥伴有著當媽媽的愛心有良好的社經地位和支持系統只需要法規做一些調整就可以成全他們養育生育台灣子女的人生願望我們何樂而不為呢"},{"start":151.756,"end":178.284,"text":"許多瑞典英國歐洲英美的文獻經過年紀心理生理醫療以及支持系統評估適用人工生殖而且研究後呢這些自願選擇單親的媽媽和一般生育的夫妻比受到的教育程度更高也有全職的工作社會是以很正向來看待這種狀態少子化是國安危機生育的平等權是憲法議題這些都是我們重視的"},{"start":179.304,"end":194.984,"text":"但更重要的是我們想讓我們的制度變得更有溫度協助每一位女性不管是單身或是另一位有伴侶都可以一生多愛一個人以媽媽的角色來圓滿自己的人生以上是我的第一個看法"},{"start":197.079,"end":222.628,"text":"再來我們今天可以齊聚在這邊各位專家學者官員委員都是一個很重要的里程碑因為我們再來談代理孕母的方式這個公聽會呢已經開了30年了還走不出一個結論但這是史上第一次在立法院的委員會召開共聽會有許許多多不孕症的夫妻包含陳昭芝委員就這樣痴痴的等"},{"start":223.529,"end":238.111,"text":"從年輕等到現在剛大家有看到女性生育的時間軸她已經再也沒有機會使用生殖技術生育孩子了在無數的黑夜裡哭泣這也是一群我們台灣不孕症的人啊其實"},{"start":238.872,"end":255.207,"text":"我們早在民國85年就有開放待運的草案兩次公民會議20多次專家會議94年又擬了一個草案包含我們現在賴準總統還有陳建仁院長都是代理運母的倡議者"},{"start":256.368,"end":270.944,"text":"但我們卻花了30年才能夠來到立法院這個民意匯集的殿堂中好好的來討論所以我說這是一個重大的突破也是里程碑還是要感謝所有願意貴賓代表專家的參與"},{"start":272.594,"end":298.915,"text":"接下來呢我想提提我們衛福部的報告這次針對立法院公聽會衛福部報告實在邏輯不通啊不瞞各位說當初與很多官員討論他們告訴我說人工生殖法要跟代理母脫鉤確實是一個醫學專業上很不好想像的事情因為從生殖醫學角度兩者是高度重疊應該一起規範也是我所贊同的但"},{"start":299.755,"end":318.59,"text":"衛福部的報告竟然說在徵詢所有團體的意見後預計納入異性夫妻跟同性配偶施行代孕升值但在召開最近兩次極度混亂的公聽會因為臉書直播留言區搜集民眾意見因為留言者意見已反對代孕者居多就退縮了"},{"start":319.591,"end":332.273,"text":"想當初你們花了這麼多錢召開公民審議會議還有委託專業的民意機關所做兩次民意調查一次過半一次八成都贊成有條件帶領育母都不算數了嗎"},{"start":333.908,"end":336.609,"text":"當同志爭取收養權利的時候也有人大肆批評同志不能給孩子正常家庭"},{"start":352.794,"end":374.965,"text":"今天代理一模更是醫療的議題治療不孕症的議題人權生育的議題只因為留言區的網友反對就不能推動那我看我們政府的部會首長很多早就應該要下台了因為這樣子的報告實在是不及格或許衛福部應該針對從很久以前許許多多你們所提出的草案逐條來給出專業意見"},{"start":377.606,"end":397.844,"text":"不好意思最後我想表達這次很多爭議是出在仲介機構是目前我們認為最制度化的環節我們規定仲介機構必須要公益性這就已經阻斷了盈利性的可能上一任第10屆各黨派委員包括現在在場的委員所提出的代理運母版本"},{"start":398.524,"end":414.504,"text":"原本是參考過往衛福部的草案因為代孕涉及了專業性技術性所以在條文上先以較彈性的方式授權行政機關另訂辦法然後我們也注意到社會各界對於中介人"},{"start":415.364,"end":438.677,"text":"警訊檢視將是這次代孕修法的關鍵所以我本人也正在眼裡將諮詢協調契約簽訂的細節一定要在公益代孕機構進行而且充分保障代孕者的權益還有自主性我們要把它寫得更清楚也希望拋磚引玉鼓勵行政單位有勇氣把更專業的草案提出來"},{"start":440.546,"end":464.716,"text":"想留給各位最後一句話有一位公開為性別平權發聲的香港歌手盧凱彤曾經說過你的完美有點難懂但不代表世界不能包容這個社會中有許多不同多元伴侶配偶期待一個孩子來圓滿家庭為我們的少子化盡一份心力卻因為疾病受到的困擾"},{"start":465.196,"end":465.296,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":482.737,"end":494.983,"text":"前輩陳昭芝委員更努力了30年但我希望我們不要停下腳步也希望歷史性立法院的第一場委員會公聽會只是開始未來大家一起進步謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"150859","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150859","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec5bd97946da31692515c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6bb206ea06e1c8f725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"09:55:27 - 10:09:45","影片長度":"00:14:18","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":858,"end_time":"2024-04-03T10:09:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T09:55:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.25221875,"end":18.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.99846875,"end":21.563468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.01534375,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.934718750000002,"end":22.829093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.16221875,"end":25.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.613468750000003,"end":25.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.727218750000002,"end":34.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.16471875,"end":37.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.20221875,"end":38.759093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.463468750000004,"end":44.142218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.81721875,"end":47.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":48.44534375,"end":54.149093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.149093750000006,"end":64.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.52721875,"end":126.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.74221875,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.22221875000001,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.02909375000002,"end":150.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.62346875,"end":150.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.84284375000001,"end":150.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.97784375,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.39534375000002,"end":174.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.22159375,"end":158.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.18346875,"end":158.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.02721875,"end":162.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.03096875,"end":162.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.67221875,"end":162.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.44221875000002,"end":179.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.17596875,"end":179.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.53034375000001,"end":188.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.53721875000002,"end":189.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.58784375000002,"end":193.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.82409375,"end":190.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.80659375000002,"end":202.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.93596875,"end":209.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.22221875000002,"end":207.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.02784375000002,"end":210.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.07409375,"end":219.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.45784375000002,"end":211.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.47346875000002,"end":262.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.70284375,"end":267.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.73596875000004,"end":308.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.61971875,"end":327.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.54221875,"end":320.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.58784375000005,"end":324.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.80721875,"end":338.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.97971875,"end":328.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.59409375,"end":349.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.69784375,"end":371.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.66909375,"end":371.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.93471875,"end":373.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.25534375,"end":373.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.32284375,"end":373.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.37346875000003,"end":373.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.21721875000003,"end":374.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.26784375,"end":374.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.30159375000005,"end":374.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.62221875,"end":374.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.70659375,"end":375.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.06096875000003,"end":380.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.05159375000005,"end":433.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.49909375000004,"end":433.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.85346875000005,"end":433.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.87034375,"end":433.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.90409375,"end":434.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.00534375,"end":434.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.07284375,"end":434.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.17409375000005,"end":434.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.27534375000005,"end":434.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.42721875,"end":440.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.68846875,"end":439.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.87784375,"end":442.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.46409375,"end":441.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.91534375000003,"end":443.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.63659375000003,"end":509.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.63909375000003,"end":509.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":509.74034375,"end":509.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":510.75284375,"end":519.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.6965937500001,"end":550.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.51034375,"end":550.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.1515937500001,"end":566.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.96346875,"end":589.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.7847187500001,"end":578.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.96846875,"end":607.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.18346875,"end":590.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.75284375,"end":592.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.94034375,"end":615.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.20159375,"end":609.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.04096875,"end":611.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.42034375,"end":613.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.3147187500001,"end":616.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.94721875,"end":617.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.2847187500001,"end":687.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.9740937500001,"end":688.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.0078437500001,"end":688.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.03721875,"end":692.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.0872187500001,"end":695.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.0447187500001,"end":695.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.07846875,"end":695.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.11221875,"end":695.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.1459687500001,"end":695.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.23034375,"end":695.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.5847187500001,"end":695.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.65221875,"end":695.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.66909375,"end":696.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.0234687500001,"end":696.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.7153437500001,"end":696.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.93471875,"end":699.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.95159375,"end":707.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.96284375,"end":732.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.3178437500001,"end":729.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.0347187500001,"end":735.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.03846875,"end":735.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.9665937500001,"end":736.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.03409375,"end":736.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.9622187500001,"end":737.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.02971875,"end":737.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.73846875,"end":744.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.7553437500001,"end":738.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.9865937500001,"end":752.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.9228437500001,"end":748.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.0190937500001,"end":752.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.16659375,"end":753.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.02721875,"end":754.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.04409375,"end":753.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.90471875,"end":755.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.15346875,"end":782.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.27159375,"end":789.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.78096875,"end":856.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.31659375,"end":845.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":856.55534375,"end":857.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.3484687500002,"end":857.7703437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.287,"end":43.583,"text":"主席有請教育部林次長體育署政署長好 我們請署長還有我們請次長 謝謝好 各位好謝謝 次長過去我是一名老師我相信全台灣的師生都是對教育部是非常敬重敬仰的但是這是昨天的頭版教育部公文系統竟然可以登上頭版"},{"start":45.181,"end":46.843,"text":"教育部的電子公文系統大當機從上週四開始陸續有大學反應"},{"start":64.62,"end":76.545,"text":"最基本的工作收發公文沒有辦法做加上清明連假要將至非常多人擔心結果當然非常感謝四天之後暫時搶通了所有教職人員像在搶演唱會票一樣"},{"start":81.967,"end":108.285,"text":"衝進去瘋狂的收發文大家都非常擔心不知道系統又何時再當機這一次的大當機事件光是原因我在這裡要跟次長分享我們竟然聽到三個版本系統廠商說是台電跳電媒體報導說是機房火災教育部昨天回覆是系統升級這已經不只是羅生門了這是什麼山體是不是"},{"start":109.185,"end":123.244,"text":"一個事件竟然有三種不同可能的原因現在到底是什麼樣的狀況想請教一下次長就您的了解教育部電子公文系統大當機的原因究竟是如何教育部是不是已經盤點出有多少的學校受到影響"},{"start":123.965,"end":150.306,"text":"就這兩個問題麻煩直接回答謝謝各位委員報告這件事情我們大概了解事發的原因主要是在3月27號科技大樓當時候發生電力中斷復電之後我們系統做一個重啟這個共用的收發平台的部分有異常的狀況那我們也逐一的去做一些盤點組織跟做一些的比對好我先停在這邊我想要請次長您先跟我保證沒有火災"},{"start":153.536,"end":174.157,"text":"沒有系統升級出現的問題?然後有沒有駭客入侵?是不是職安問題?都沒有嗎?我們做個記錄我們之後一定會追查下去我們真的是覺得不要再一再的有問題2月22號教育部機房發生火災火災的原因那個地方是什麼地方?次長知道嗎?"},{"start":176.739,"end":192.99,"text":"牆壁上的某個東西燒起來啦我給你暗示啦是我們科技大樓機房的電力室變電盤嘛又是電那昨天剛剛次長講說這個公文系統是不是又是電我們今天還發生很不幸的地震的事情"},{"start":194.068,"end":222.54,"text":"我就在這裡插進來我就脫稿演出請問現在有沒有開始在盤查電力有沒有什麼問題有沒有風險有沒有現在開始在盤查有跟委員報告目前我們整個科技大樓的基法目前是ok的right this moment不是現在ok所有的電力系統但是花蓮區網那邊因為花蓮區網目前中斷所以有局部的學術網路是中斷的在台北區網這邊都是ok的相關報告有沒有發在你們的公開的頻道"},{"start":223.12,"end":223.16,"text":"葛如鈞"},{"start":245.232,"end":262.058,"text":"結果呢 教育部竟然變成教育部這個遮蓋東西的部我相信這都不是我們想要看到的我希望要求教育部在一個月內針對電子公文系統大蕩機的事件甚至合併啦就是說這個所謂系統機房電力的問題是不是可以一併的做一個完整的檢討報告"},{"start":264.137,"end":278.872,"text":"這個部分我們來做一個檢討報告提供給委員做一個參考謝謝這真的是為了民眾問的也是為了全台師生問的此次這個教育部系統當機的事件有非常非常多的資訊都正在發出尤其下週一4月8號"},{"start":280.313,"end":307.588,"text":"要進行網球及羽球項目這個全大運賽事的抽籤雖然昨天緊急通知信件已經寄出去了但時間真的非常短請問一下次長目前教育部對於主辦全大運的臺灣體育運動的大學有沒有提供任何因為這一次的事件而發生的一些可能的延宕或者是delay或者是發生這個miss有沒有什麼協助的措施如果他們沒有抽到抽籤的通知影響了參賽的權益有沒有研議補償的機制"},{"start":309.639,"end":310.199,"text":"您最擅長的運動項目是什麼?"},{"start":339.112,"end":340.754,"text":"我相信你可能還有一個擅長的運動你不太了解,其實是踢皮球"},{"start":349.798,"end":370.956,"text":"您的球友 經濟部王美花部長 數位部唐鳳部長和文化部矢澤部長我們的國家的這個電競產業就是這顆皮球被你們踢來踢去我在這邊要給你們看一下這個手上的小小本的資料最新的2022遊戲電競產業調查報告請問次長知道這是哪個單位做的嗎?非常精美喔"},{"start":375.588,"end":399.181,"text":"是不是很精美對不對這是文化部底下的文策院所做的眾所皆知依據運動產業條例電競產業的主管機關就是教育部體育署為什麼產業調查是由文化部進行次長還不知道我們進一步詢問了文化部得到的答覆是因為遊戲產業是文創產業之一文政院在辦理文化相關的內容"},{"start":400.302,"end":420.131,"text":"所以考量等等等等才將電競納入調查範圍白話翻譯就是因為遊戲產業署與文創業與文化部調查遊戲產業的時候順便幫教育部體育署調查了相關發展情形我們真的是不禁懷疑教育部體育署作為電競產業主管機關到底有沒有自行了解過我們的電競產業的現況"},{"start":422.552,"end":438.428,"text":"市長有沒有看過這本調查報告在這本調查報告裡面反正剛剛看起來是沒看過2021年我國電競產業的整體營收是多少給你一個機會是 跟委員報告一下你可以猜嘛幾億啦幾億12345678910你可以猜一個300億"},{"start":444.69,"end":473.328,"text":"很好 我也很希望是300億全球可能是300億台灣的電競產業電競產業就是比賽的部分整體已經說5億文化部幫你統計的電競產業2022年的成長率高達147%如果真的是300億我們還用這種消極的態度來處理那還得了但未來一定是300億所以我們才要現在處理所以我想 這個真的是非常非常重要的一個議題"},{"start":474.669,"end":490.322,"text":"體育署的組織法第二條明定體育署的業務執掌包含運動產業發展之規劃執行督導及獎勵連產業的年營收跟發展概況都沒有掌握基本上就是瞎子摸象要怎麼來規劃產業的發展"},{"start":492.364,"end":508.939,"text":"市長教育部作為體育署的上級機關負責督導體育署的業務辦理情況結果這些調查報告我們剛剛講什麼147.8%還經濟部幫你們算的你認為這樣的做法是不是太過消極甚至根本不負責任署長就在後面您可以指導他"},{"start":511.502,"end":525.406,"text":"謝謝委員：確實那個電競的這個運動的部分基本上它涉及到的是好幾個相關部會我可以回應您上一次羅廷偉有委員非常關注他就質詢"},{"start":527.527,"end":532.712,"text":"結果我們相關的這個官員竟然理直氣壯說電競產業發展屬於經濟部數位部我們特地查了所有的法規也聽您們向經濟部數位部文化部多方多次的確認三個部會都回覆依據運動產業發展條例電競產業屬於運動產業主管機關就是教育部體育署"},{"start":552.33,"end":565.765,"text":"這個雖然是由教育部經濟部電競產業而且依據法令裡面你們就在裡面啊你們根本就不是單獨經濟部負責啊那你們沒有要推卸責任吧是不是要來負責一下"},{"start":566.986,"end":569.047,"text":"但是你們也是主管機關之一我在這邊要來接力一下我來問一下署長"},{"start":597.527,"end":606.036,"text":"電子競技除了是運動產業發展條例所指稱的運動產業以外,它是否也是國民體育法當中所指稱的運動或體育活動?是或不是?"},{"start":617.428,"end":635.365,"text":"回答得非常好,但是依據國民體育法第5條及第44條政府應該保障人民平等使用運動設施及參與體育活動之權利各級政府為推行國民體育應普設公共運動設施並提供適齡適性的器材我這邊要接力羅委員,場館的問題"},{"start":638.627,"end":645.431,"text":"這個產業已經真的非常大了2022年全球電子競技營收13億美元確實就是300億全球電競人數高達5億2025年會到18億美元全球觀眾會超過6億11個人就有一個人看這個不只他們沒有拿到應有的補助他們還沒有足夠的場館來使用我們可以看到真的是有非常多沒有場館用等到他們贏了以後又來蹭熱度"},{"start":667.563,"end":667.963,"text":"發言委員：葛如鈞"},{"start":693.157,"end":696.219,"text":"我們回到這個場館的部分因為我們有這個辦公室同仁在學校很可憐說這個學生真的是因應期盼希望能夠早一點參與這個電子競技"},{"start":718.45,"end":723.391,"text":"之前我們討論過啦2026年日本亞運把電競項目列入進去了數位時代報導2028年奧運極可能會納入電競的項目而且是電子競技喔身體不用動的喔動腦或動手還沒確定我知道他應該是傳帶四方面的跟亞運的不太一樣所以您是亞奧運的主委是不是主席嗎"},{"start":738.775,"end":741.295,"text":"我想這個補助很重要不要只是曝光同時也有非常多人真的非常關心我們應該要有場館讓學生可以練習"},{"start":766.32,"end":766.38,"text":"提醒次長："},{"start":792.603,"end":798.748,"text":"目前我們電競產業的這應該就是我們要來複習一下電競產業的處境真的是我們都不想要像皮球一樣被踢來踢去我們已經調查過了我們大概問了很多很多次收集了非常多的數據我們目前得到的是每年常態性的補助協會300多萬"},{"start":813.34,"end":830.477,"text":"距離你們心中想像的300多億真的是太遙遠了我說的是產業的scale幾乎真的是沒有在過去沒有促進電競產業做太多努力不調整選手的補助培訓的條件提高電競設施的可進性迎頭趕上其他國家電競產業的發展"},{"start":831.678,"end":831.698,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"150858","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150858","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec03c23e7e200a0250e1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a6fefbc25bed5bb6755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"09:50:58 - 09:57:09","影片長度":"00:06:11","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T09:57:09+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":371,"start_time":"2024-04-03T09:50:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.60846875,"end":5.684093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.52596875,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.99596875,"end":40.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.49721875,"end":41.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.79659375,"end":42.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.11284375,"end":44.142218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.55971875,"end":50.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.62221875,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.33471875,"end":55.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.19096875,"end":61.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.37159375,"end":64.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.94909375,"end":66.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.24409375,"end":70.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.32784375,"end":73.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.09534375,"end":74.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.09096875,"end":77.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.06096875,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.71034375,"end":82.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.43159375,"end":84.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.14846875,"end":91.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.54409375,"end":94.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.51409375,"end":96.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.07909375000001,"end":99.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.20096875,"end":107.65971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.94659375,"end":110.62971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.20346875000001,"end":112.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.22846875,"end":116.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.50221875000001,"end":118.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.79721875000001,"end":120.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.00346875000001,"end":122.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.52221875000001,"end":132.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.52909375000002,"end":142.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.67534375,"end":144.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.46409375000002,"end":148.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.90221875,"end":172.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":172.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.38784375,"end":175.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.27784375000002,"end":179.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.61471875,"end":198.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.88596875000002,"end":207.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.13346875000002,"end":208.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.06159375000001,"end":209.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.12471875,"end":226.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.96596875,"end":252.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.76784375000003,"end":256.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.68284375,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.87659375000004,"end":270.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.12784375,"end":271.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.00534375,"end":275.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.71784375000004,"end":276.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.93284375,"end":279.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.76784375,"end":285.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.52221875000004,"end":286.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.69909375000003,"end":294.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.28034375000004,"end":299.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.11909375000005,"end":302.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.35909375,"end":304.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.62471875,"end":306.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.41346875,"end":317.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.05721875,"end":321.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.17471875,"end":324.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.29659375,"end":328.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.36784375,"end":333.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.36284375,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.25284375,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.13846875,"end":338.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.30284375,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.21784375000004,"end":344.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.12471875,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.85034375000004,"end":370.03221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.002,"end":5.03,"text":"現在有請吳宗憲委員發言"},{"start":19.624,"end":43.469,"text":"我今天先肯定一下行政院今天的報告因為今天報告沒有再拿585號來牛頭不對馬嘴了因為相關昨天昨天本人前天吧本人在這邊的時候曾經就行政院拿585號來做這樣的對我的提案做這樣的"},{"start":45.592,"end":45.872,"text":"吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員"},{"start":75.134,"end":103.723,"text":"行政機關的官員絕對不應該去主動去帶風向去騙人民所以我昨天一直在講一直在講這個部分就是政府不應該拿錯誤的資訊來誤導人民這個是不應該的這完完全全不應該那長期以來我們的政府是拿很多不同的數據來欺騙人民來美化一些大眾對於施政的感覺那這都不是一個負責任的政府該做的事情"},{"start":104.823,"end":118.395,"text":"我還是很深信民進黨的創黨精神清廉、勤政、愛鄉土我非常認同這個創黨精神我希望現在能夠繼續這樣堅持下去有關這次國會改革的部分"},{"start":124.12,"end":141.015,"text":"有關這次國會改革的部分那我想說我來簡單提一下其實我禮拜一的時候也一直講一個東西在座非常多公法學者我們都知道一件事情憲法是國家的根本大法絕對不可能變來變去"},{"start":142.977,"end":171.943,"text":"我想在座有律師有學者大家都能夠認同這個所以在我這個很直很笨的法律人的腦子裡面憲法其實是不會這樣亂變來變去的否則不叫做根本大法那我們來看一下在2015年的時候蔡英文自己在臉書的主張這是我自己的臉書寫的我寫報告蔡總統我正努力達成您當年國會改革的理想"},{"start":173.443,"end":198.088,"text":"我現在正努力在達成蔡英文當年國會改革的理想我現在就在做這件事我們看一下蔡英文在2015年她就主張要國會改革她就希望建立起聽證跟調查制度要強化監督的能量那個時候為什麼沒有群起說違憲違憲違憲我們要申請四字我們要幹什麼當時都沒有這樣做所以到今天我覺得我一直在說一個"},{"start":199.148,"end":226.308,"text":"當年跟今天唯一不一樣的就只有一個因子的差異就是執政與否所以我覺得對於事情不能這樣看我們再來看一下其實這段時間不管是顧立雄委員李俊毅委員其實都非常的清楚要求要有調查權的存在甚至要有相關的處罰那這些人現在也都在位而且都是位居高位像一位在監察院的秘書長一位是"},{"start":227.068,"end":251.597,"text":"國安局秘書長甚至現在的總統府秘書長就是前立法委員林佳龍他還要求要有刑罰剛剛有幾位學者痛罵說這個刑罰的部分當然我的版本是沒有刑罰我先跟各位報告我的版本是沒有刑罰的剛剛還有學者還痛罵說這怎麼有刑罰當然我們再回過頭去看其實"},{"start":252.797,"end":254.94,"text":"律師長當年他也是提有一個刑法的這個建議"},{"start":258.942,"end":286.168,"text":"所以我在想 很多事情我們是可以理性的來討論那再回過頭去看 其實那個剛剛林志傑教授有提到美國的國會當然林志傑教授講得非常的正確那他們是三權分立國家 我們是五權分立國家 本來就是都不能套用但是我倒不覺得說國會這樣做會有一些老民的問題你們去看一下三權分立國家的美國 其他的國會的力道更強悍"},{"start":287.748,"end":287.768,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":318.248,"end":320.149,"text":"立法院的權力也不能無限擴張所以我們會有一些限制的存在"},{"start":344.054,"end":368.387,"text":"提供這些被處分的官員的程序保障這個也是我堅持的還有就是涉嫌到有相關法律責任的時候就是交由司法機關或監察機關來處理絕對不是立法委員說了算這個我很堅持絕對不是立法委員說了算那在這邊就跟各位報告到這邊如果有什麼問題我在下午提案的時候我會再詳細說明 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150857","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150857","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecc8fbe5cbc5bdbdbd6f22e8a0909f695bf8ba9b0039caa7a60ecafa458f489ced5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:49:31 - 09:55:59","影片長度":"00:06:28","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T09:55:59+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":388,"start_time":"2024-04-03T09:49:31+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.67346875,"end":51.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.66846875,"end":84.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.65909375000001,"end":87.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.62471875,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.36659375,"end":123.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.45471875000001,"end":169.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.70909375000002,"end":304.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.86096875000004,"end":369.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.42034375000003,"end":372.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.81659375000004,"end":377.98034375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.229,"end":18.663,"text":"人工生殖修法有幾個特色第一個是我們將單身女性還有具永久結合關係的同志伴侶就是同婚的伴侶還有因病沒有辦法懷孕或是需要剛剛醫師也提到某些狀況他需要需求代孕的病友納入我們希望讓這些人在這個"},{"start":20.224,"end":40.589,"text":"現法平等權上可以享有家庭權跟生育自主權的保障所以我們認為完全不需要列入專法我們在這次民眾黨的版本也把調整了保障對象的順序我們把人工生殖的子女還有待孕者放在最優先優先在法規的保障"},{"start":41.049,"end":41.089,"text":"陳昭姿議員"},{"start":62.21,"end":62.75,"text":"捐金捐卵難道沒有涉及第三者嗎?"},{"start":88.67,"end":102.899,"text":"他涉及的要素可能更深入而且據我了解國建署沒有對捐精捐卵這個部尤其捐精部份有所追蹤而且毫無資料那至於收養的部份我自己收養小孩子的權益呢社家數也是追蹤3年就結束了所以我覺得這個在子宮或收養的部份他甚至涉及不止3個人"},{"start":109.443,"end":109.663,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":134.053,"end":135.595,"text":"經歷了二、三十年的討論,有大概十到二十次的公聽會,因為時間太久了,1996年開始有大於二十次的專家會議,還有兩次的公民會議,2004年跟2012年,都是國家舉辦的公民會議"},{"start":151.369,"end":151.409,"text":"陳昭姿議員"},{"start":169.75,"end":169.79,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":186.957,"end":211.277,"text":"實質上代孕出生的子女跟傳統方式出生的子女他們的生理健康跟心理健康事實上是沒有差別這個是有科學實證第二個大家擔心工具化或物化的部分那我要談的就是說其實我想相信在座很多人都了解倫理學的精神因為很多人說這個是不倫理的倫理學最高的精神就是自主性那試問我可以逼迫一個女生幫我懷孕嗎基本上我認為代孕媽媽"},{"start":214.359,"end":217.482,"text":"他的自主性高過妻子、高過媳婦、高過這三種我們認為生育的女性你如果不透過立法來法治化的話你要讓他在有知的情況下去進行代孕那他的自主性加上正當性就會更高"},{"start":234.116,"end":244.206,"text":"法制化是更有利於自主性的正當性另外有關經濟弱勢的部分 我知道陳金輝委員也有收集一些相關的 等一下我想他應該會有機會說明就是事實上根據這個研究 包括287位加拿大的待遇媽媽其實她的教育程度在53%是大學畢業 然後她50%是有工作的 她不是經濟弱勢"},{"start":258.539,"end":258.799,"text":"陳昭姿議員"},{"start":282.372,"end":282.412,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":304.918,"end":321.104,"text":"同理心非常重要將心比心成全別人追求幸福這也是我3月26在總質詢的時候提給院長最後的一些想法那當然有人認為說當年的公聽會我在這裡特別聲明一下說我是逼迫那個院長幫我去當然是署長去執行"},{"start":323.345,"end":328.767,"text":"結果這個公民會議那當時我也這樣的請院長幫忙釐清那院長講得非常清楚大家也看這個質詢公民會議是院長透過這個專家學者建議他所做的臺灣第一次公民會議那我想將心比心非常重這也是為什麼我跟我先生當年在臺大醫學院念書我們是有資源找到醫師的我沒有能力找到黛玉媽媽但為什麼我們最後放棄曝光然後選擇要站出來呼籲黛玉姐姐"},{"start":351.554,"end":352.675,"text":"陳昭姿委員接下來我們請財團法人厚生基金會執行長陳伯同執行長"}]}},{"id":"150856","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150856","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecf21c2468cac77c3215c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6e93912b86ed9a1c85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"09:42:40 - 09:55:19","影片長度":"00:12:39","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":759,"end_time":"2024-04-03T09:55:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T09:42:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.46846875,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.029093750000001,"end":13.902218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.75409375,"end":32.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.98784375,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.03784375,"end":39.299093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.392218750000005,"end":37.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.923468750000005,"end":43.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.97346875,"end":44.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.27721875,"end":44.344718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.344718750000006,"end":44.445968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.445968750000006,"end":45.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.35721875,"end":51.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.76971875,"end":56.916593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.87846875,"end":62.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.35034375,"end":83.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.81534375000001,"end":86.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.49846875,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.61159375000001,"end":96.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.06659375000001,"end":96.45471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.83846875,"end":102.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.76221875,"end":100.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.06159375,"end":102.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.04034375,"end":102.83346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.52971875,"end":102.85034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.85034375000001,"end":103.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.33971875,"end":103.45784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.74471875,"end":119.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.20221875000001,"end":120.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.65346875,"end":128.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.04471875000002,"end":128.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.07846875,"end":128.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.37784375,"end":156.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.06971875000002,"end":174.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.20784375000002,"end":166.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.02909375000002,"end":185.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.80784375000002,"end":187.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.52909375000002,"end":222.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.48971875,"end":270.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.33034375,"end":273.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.67596875000004,"end":274.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.51971875000004,"end":276.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.37159375000005,"end":302.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.80221875,"end":332.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.74221875,"end":309.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.61971875,"end":309.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.67034375000003,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.92409375,"end":333.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.51034375,"end":379.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.00971875000005,"end":395.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.12534375,"end":427.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.93034375,"end":430.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.47409375,"end":459.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.77346875,"end":474.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.97784375000003,"end":571.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.0303437499999,"end":594.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.85784375,"end":688.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.35221875,"end":644.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.30721875,"end":735.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":735.07221875,"end":743.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.8472187500001,"end":756.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":757.11096875,"end":758.4272187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.473,"end":11.536,"text":"好,我們有請次長跟署長"},{"start":16.972,"end":42.724,"text":"羅委員好好 次長你好本席昨天成立的臺灣ACG及電子競技產業政策合作的一個促進會來了很多ACG跟電競界的朋友現場也有做一些交流我想跟你做一個探討那次長電競也有國家代表隊吧是 目前包含亞運我們也有代表隊對 杭州亞運嘛 對不對你覺得這些電競選手快樂嗎電競選手的表現是不錯"},{"start":44.166,"end":48.388,"text":"市長,這些選手你有沒有調查過他們真正想要的是什麼?"},{"start":58.415,"end":81.684,"text":"我個人是沒有特別去做這樣子的調查跟了解我覺得是應該要更關心他們的一個感受了解他們到底未來需要什麼我覺得如果這樣子的話我覺得教育部是沒有在關心這些電競選手他們的一些想法那既然他們也都代表國家代表隊我們更有義務去關心他們而且是去健全這個整個體制"},{"start":83.285,"end":95.786,"text":"市長 榮譽 興趣 未來對電競選手來說你覺得這三個哪一個比較重要榮譽跟興趣當然都非常重要"},{"start":102.583,"end":119.591,"text":"市長我覺得我們都會有生涯規劃我們更希望在這個電競選手上面他的未來是應該我們要看重的昨天成立大會上面臨的困境我們都有請他們一一做一個討論第一兵役問題"},{"start":120.791,"end":121.092,"text":"是,是"},{"start":130.114,"end":154.947,"text":"18歲成年就可以出賽但是馬上就要面臨兵役的問題造成很多選手就會選擇讀大學緩針但要維持學籍又要影響到選手訓練的時間雖然現行的規定電競選手可以選擇所謂的替代役但實際上還是沒有任何幫助實際的效益我想次長這個兵役問題您怎麼協助"},{"start":157.388,"end":184.759,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個替代役的部分的話這個電競的替代役的部分是文化部在做一個主管來這個我跟您做一個特別報告這對補充役的部分的話如果是包含我們那個亞運的這個選手的部分他是補充役補充役有12天的一個補充役對補充役就當年他們稱之為網路搜尋吵警會條款那王建民成為第一個受賄者那我作為12天的補充役的部分我想"},{"start":186.039,"end":203.181,"text":"補充液的規定有它的一個規範那有些電競選手我們要知道他是18歲一滿以後可能就要去做相關的一個訓練他不一定是已經得過獎或者是輝煌的成績那相關的規定到底能不能去真正幫助到他"},{"start":203.541,"end":203.561,"text":"羅廷瑋議員"},{"start":223.704,"end":223.724,"text":"執業選手"},{"start":240.902,"end":269.894,"text":"他們的兵役問題我們要來協助因為他們對於我們國家來說有可能是讓我們能夠在國際上被看到的一環很重要的一環我們應該去關注第二體育署一年只補助電競兩百多萬三百多萬內左右這經費不到體育署的預算的千分之一這上次我就已經有稍微提過了整個花費當中都是國高中的校園聯賽那校園聯賽裡面能成為電競選手可以代表出國比賽的畢竟是少數"},{"start":270.794,"end":271.636,"text":"經費的問題要怎麼協助?"},{"start":277.523,"end":293.616,"text":"發委員我想部分我們過去的確都是爭奪著重在亞運的這些國家隊的選手那未來因為我們今年已經成立了行政法人那這部分我們也希望透過行政法人來跟電競的產業這邊有更多的結合那這部分我們後續我們會再邀請這些產業界的人來跟我們來談看怎麼樣來協助這些的產業跟他們的選手相關的一個權益的事業"},{"start":302.924,"end":331.133,"text":"那署長我真的要麻煩你如果您跟邀請產業界來一起做一個討論的時候是不是我們能夠參與我們來協助當然我想這是很重要的議會願意先溝通事情就先解決一半再來我還是在這強調我不是說一定要花費這些錢全部補助某個協會我希望是真正用在這些選手身上讓他們有機會不會孤單讓他們知道政府是他們的靠山每年我們昨天你有聽到啦這些戰隊每年都在比誰"},{"start":332.978,"end":333.018,"text":"委員長羅廷瑋"},{"start":351.203,"end":352.184,"text":"我想這個部分我們應該來做一個探討這個部分體育署有辦法嗎?"},{"start":379.085,"end":381.786,"text":"政府有關注電競賽事都是主流遊戲就像冷門遊戲怎麼辦我們這昨天有提到就像我們可能關注棒球"},{"start":406.331,"end":407.192,"text":"包括他執行長卡在高鐵上卡在高鐵上"},{"start":431.533,"end":459.595,"text":"好 我想這個部分喔 電子競競場館我們在會後再繼續做一個探討我個人要推薦我們台中舊的縣市議會它就像是立法院的議場一樣它是沒有在使用但是縣市議會的議場我們可以了解它大概的一個平均的場域分佈我們大概知道一下想像一下這個部分是不是能夠作為變更電競場館這是我選前所開出的承諾我希望體育署署長是不是有機會跟我到台中看一下場域"},{"start":459.995,"end":461.516,"text":"蘇長,我不喜歡在這個場域去稱讚別人,因為必須去質詢,但是我只能說你速度很快。"},{"start":478.772,"end":501.922,"text":"那給予你的一個建議你有聽在腦海中去做一個執行我先謝謝你 也代表這些選手感謝你我們有把它當一回事但是 署長 劉君妹劉君妹有聽過嗎這是賽車賽車的選手他是在教育部認可的體育選手編號67號他要出國比賽了沒有經費國家認可的體育選手要出國比賽"},{"start":502.662,"end":505.703,"text":"劉君梅2019年花了自己的嫁妝自掏腰包參加比賽2023年賣房子參加比賽次長"},{"start":520.428,"end":543.645,"text":"這個我現在講給你聽去年連房子都賣了現在今年他要為了比賽他要賣什麼賣乾賣血嗎我們到底教育部體育署能夠幫助這些選手什麼東西我們應該要好好的盤點每一次我問體育署給我的回應是畢竟他現在的這個不是所謂的亞奧運比賽我們能給予的直接補助很少"},{"start":544.045,"end":571.897,"text":"我們只能夠說用產業條例來幫助他告訴他說你可以用這個企業募款我想要建議的是教育部體育署是不是能夠協助不管是受政也好不管是協助企業媒合好我們要帶頭做出第一步教育部可以說沒錢教育部可以說沒辦法補助但是教育部有沒有真正去執行協助這些選手帶他們去找補助協助企業媒合這個部分體育署能不能給我一個承諾"},{"start":572.717,"end":593.199,"text":"報告委員：感謝委員給我們這樣的一個idea其實我們就針對臺灣之光也不限於賽車那我們現在已經我前幾天已經請同仁去研議針對所有臺灣之光非奧爾運項目的選手我們是不是也能夠創造一個平台像記者會啦之類的然後也希望能夠協助他們來做一個曝光跟招商由政府來背書讓企業能夠來協助他們"},{"start":596.162,"end":615.072,"text":"蘇長辦這個記者會或者是授證我想給他們一個機會一個舞台他這不用花多少錢我自己曾經為了協助諸星算的孩子出日本要去做比賽我們在台中市政府辦了一個禮堂做一個簡易的授證授證國旗找記者告訴大家我們的孩子"},{"start":615.472,"end":616.012,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":637.526,"end":637.826,"text":"最後教育用電是不是動漲了?"},{"start":666.025,"end":687.959,"text":"是的我昨天特別還關心到底這筆錢是誰出的是你自己另外在編列預算來做一個撥補來彌補這些支出損失還是所謂的台電直接動漲最後我了解到以後是台電直接動漲我們所謂的幼稚園國小國中到高中大學對吧"},{"start":689.669,"end":691.191,"text":"施力幼兒園都可以做動長店駕補習班"},{"start":704.927,"end":732.923,"text":"是不是應該做一個考量我們的補習班在整個教育部不管是現行的課綱有許多不足的地方都是在做節償補短甚至是幫忙亡羊補牢的一個區塊我要幫所謂的補教業講話我要幫更多這些教育場館教育用的一些我們孩子會用到的場域來講話我希望教育部能夠協助動長的部分持續的擴大讓這些教育場域都可以用到"},{"start":733.363,"end":756.179,"text":"這部分麻煩您可以幫我們做協助溝通嗎我想羅委員的這個意見我們會反映到行政院請行政院把補習班列進做通盤的考量我想以上就是我們這些不管是關心亞運或非亞運的一些選手還有剛剛說的打假球的事情我想我們委員會都非常關心我們希望要真正硬起來來做我們也希望署長加油謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150855","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150855","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec2eb648533b9978a4e1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a6cf300a208d967c955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"09:45:14 - 09:50:27","影片長度":"00:05:13","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T09:50:27+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":313,"start_time":"2024-04-03T09:45:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.0934687499999995,"end":5.549093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.22409375,"end":7.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.14784375,"end":62.805968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.83534375000001,"end":71.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.42471875000001,"end":73.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.20096875,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.27659375,"end":77.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.87534375,"end":144.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.12659375,"end":146.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.77159375000002,"end":161.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.64284375,"end":167.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":170.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.85659375,"end":171.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":176.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.79659375,"end":181.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":185.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.44909375,"end":187.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.44471875000002,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.49471875,"end":196.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.38846875000002,"end":213.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.17909375000002,"end":216.45284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.65534375000001,"end":218.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.13596875000002,"end":223.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.67534375000002,"end":229.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.35784375,"end":237.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.27221875,"end":239.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.53784375,"end":245.56221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.05159375000002,"end":293.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.62221875,"end":307.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.10909375,"end":310.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.98659375,"end":312.33659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.114,"end":25.759,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們今天在討論這個完善國會的調查制度這個原因當然很簡單我們今天想從責任政治的角度來探討這樣的事情什麼叫責任政治責任政治包含法律責任跟政治責任法律責任指施政違法的時候接受法律制裁負起法律上應付之責任"},{"start":26.579,"end":47.79,"text":"而政治責任則表示政府官員因違反民意決策錯誤成效不彰等等失去人民信任造成人民不滿即便沒有違法但也要負起相關的責任嚴重的話必須要辭職下台按照現行的憲法架構來看法律責任中司法機關追究刑事責任監察機關追究行政責任而這個政治責任"},{"start":49.011,"end":76.954,"text":"往往是透過民意代表在議事堂上的問政質詢點出缺失然後希望透過這樣的方式來實現責任政治的精神但很遺憾的是政治的實務上這個概念真的有被落實嗎我們現行的機制真的有辦法讓行政的官員負起所謂的政治責任嗎我想這是所有社會大眾應該要共同思考的重要問題那麼立法委員受選民的託付要有權力要監督政府"},{"start":77.898,"end":106.3,"text":"但問政品質的好壞啊 取決於立委的專業程度 了解程度但議題的種類繁多 我們也不見得是每一個議題領域的專家按照現行立法院職權行使法 有所謂的調閱制度但顯然強度啊 跟量能是不夠的也不見得能夠確保資料的正確性 可靠性 跟完整性因此 本次國會改革 最重要的是完善立法調查權以及相關聽證制度藉由制度法制化的過程"},{"start":107.781,"end":129.121,"text":"讓立法委員的聽證調查程序明文規定透過調查搭配聽證的執行讓相關人士在公開而且正式的場合就已知去做清楚的陳述並且俯以資料的呈現就立法委員關心的問題加以說明這樣子相關事項可以清楚對焦可以釐清問題的爭點"},{"start":130.885,"end":146.664,"text":"另外要透過處罰等等強制性的手段使相關人員的出席陳述的真實性資料提供的正確性有一定的擔保讓調查的結果有可靠性有權威性也讓立法委員可以根據這一些的資料"},{"start":148.21,"end":171.743,"text":"提出質詢或者是作為立法背景的資料去強化立法的品質問政的品質並且更有力量要求政府官員為錯誤的責任負起政治責任這是他的正當性那麼我必須要再次補充為什麼我們必須要有強制手段很多人講說按照現行的機制不就好了嗎我只能說自律不成只能他律了"},{"start":172.603,"end":188.974,"text":"如果行政官員有為有守願意尊重國會有的時候願意主動擔起政治責任也許今天國會改革國會這些聽證調查的制度要入法它的迫切性可能不會這麼高但是我們現行的這些行政官員動輒迴避問題"},{"start":191.576,"end":216.061,"text":"更有甚者反質詢甚至侮辱國會議員在這樣子的一個場合之下顯然責任政治根本沒有任何自律的可能性所以我們當然有必要透過法制化的角度來強化國會問政的炮火去落實這樣子的精神剛剛我們公聽會竟然有教授講說我們要確保這些人說謊的權利這樣子的說法真的能夠被社會大眾所接受嗎"},{"start":216.801,"end":237.236,"text":"也許法律有法律的學理概念可是我們今天在這立法院的殿堂就是要平衡民意跟法律的專業對不對講說確保這些人連說謊的權利都沒有這樣子的言論恐怕很有爭議吧本席認為完善國會調查權跟建立聽證制度它不只不可或缺而且刻不容緩"},{"start":238.617,"end":255.664,"text":"這個不是黨派鬥爭的戰爭工具因為這些法律入法之後不管誰執政 誰在野都可以按照法律的規定去強化國會的問政品質啊這個也絕對不是立法院的專善擴權我們今天不就在這裡開公聽會嗎我們馬上不就是要進入法條的討論跟審查嗎"},{"start":257.725,"end":281.66,"text":"是立法院不應該忘記人民賦予我們監督政府的神聖使命我們不能再繼續變成行政院下面的立法局更不能成為執政者的橡皮圖章這些都是民進黨曾經在野的時候都講過的論點所以這些事情不應該因為政黨的輪替而變成主客意味反而在這樣子的時候大家應該捐氣成見立刻的討論 立刻的通過"},{"start":285.322,"end":307.69,"text":"品質的好壞第一透過討論的方式來處理第二透過修法之後的實際執行滾動式的檢討這樣不是比較有意義嗎我想在本屆立法院也許三黨不過半有一些混亂但這依然是推動國會改革的絕佳機會我想這件事情再次強調它第一不可或缺第二刻不容緩希望大家予以支持謝謝好 謝謝我們現在補充"}]}},{"id":"150854","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150854","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ece5f8a58ca2ad7a3b15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a6632dec9194285a125ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:29:57 - 09:42:25","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":748,"end_time":"2024-04-03T09:42:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T09:29:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.69221875,"end":9.480968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.763468750000001,"end":12.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.42534375,"end":14.914718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.914718750000002,"end":83.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.46096875,"end":86.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.81909375000001,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.28721875000001,"end":90.76784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.08846875,"end":98.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.96596875,"end":93.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.63159375000001,"end":104.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.31409375000001,"end":121.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.21034375,"end":124.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.64034375000001,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.91409375,"end":130.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.04909375000001,"end":127.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.54221875000002,"end":135.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.52471875,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.73534375,"end":143.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.45221875000001,"end":139.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.48534375,"end":154.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.61034375,"end":159.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.38596875000002,"end":164.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.02221875,"end":167.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.80659375000002,"end":174.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.46846875,"end":172.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.32846875,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.41034375,"end":194.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.42659375000002,"end":208.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.25596875000002,"end":207.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.67346875,"end":209.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.04471875000002,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.05346875,"end":234.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.59346875000003,"end":234.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.24659375000002,"end":240.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.71659375,"end":307.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.59034375000005,"end":315.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.97846875000005,"end":336.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.24846875000003,"end":336.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.88096875,"end":388.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.26034375,"end":341.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.41221875,"end":341.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.86721875,"end":346.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.83096875,"end":391.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.32846875,"end":400.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.10346875000005,"end":432.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.63346875,"end":411.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.77346875,"end":440.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.63721875000005,"end":455.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.78846875000005,"end":447.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.09909375,"end":459.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.11534375,"end":467.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.11846875000003,"end":467.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.72159375,"end":473.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.59034375000005,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.69159375000004,"end":470.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.50971875000005,"end":481.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.80409375000005,"end":481.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.57596875,"end":481.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.66034375000004,"end":487.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.23346875000004,"end":488.98409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.71409375,"end":495.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.07596875,"end":498.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.28659375,"end":514.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.15971875,"end":501.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.9040937500001,"end":517.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.49034375,"end":556.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.89471875,"end":521.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.7040937500001,"end":525.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.1128437500001,"end":566.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.47846875,"end":580.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.27971875,"end":568.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.2922187500001,"end":570.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.1597187500001,"end":605.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.39221875,"end":625.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.7053437500001,"end":650.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.8984687500001,"end":633.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.78159375,"end":654.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.8022187500001,"end":654.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.6459687500001,"end":664.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.6697187500001,"end":665.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.56409375,"end":666.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.4584687500001,"end":676.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.99284375,"end":681.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.61659375,"end":683.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.86096875,"end":683.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.9578437499999,"end":685.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.24034375,"end":692.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.48846875,"end":693.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.8172187499999,"end":704.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.9097187500001,"end":695.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.0265937500001,"end":707.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.5322187500001,"end":713.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.8647187500001,"end":715.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.94034375,"end":718.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.3828437500001,"end":724.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.8972187500001,"end":722.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.8840937500001,"end":728.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.2634687500001,"end":734.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.11909375,"end":747.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.31096875,"end":748.1672187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":9.138,"text":"是我們柯志恩委員謝謝召委我們是不是請署長有請署長謝謝"},{"start":14.462,"end":14.662,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":30.496,"end":53.142,"text":"當初我們在國體法修法的母法上面我們是說不管是賺錢或是賠錢都要給出賽費但是我也不懂為什麼你可以看看當初我們的會議記錄當中而且不是只有本席是認為這是應該的其他的包括不同黨派的立委大家都認為這是一個基本的一個條件這是母法當初修法的一個非常基本的一個原則"},{"start":54.102,"end":80.442,"text":"那2018年你們提出了施行的細則當中呢你們就直接改成有盈餘的時候才來支付選手的初賽費我個人覺得這真的是有點行政霸凌我們的立法這樣子的一個問題喔好那我退一萬步來想好了我當初跟大家來問一下從2017年國體法修法到現在有多少比賽是有盈餘的有多少比賽是給初賽費的署長你知道嗎"},{"start":83.604,"end":86.046,"text":"目前我們給的資料在9場有盈餘都給出賽費嗎?我已經把答案告訴你了我特別去問啊藍鞋哥沒有給選手出賽費那其他8場有沒有給?"},{"start":105.35,"end":126.083,"text":"目前我們掌握到的就是除了正式錦標賽目前這個定義除了還有分靈賽事這件事情因為我沒有職業的選手參與這件事情協會目前他們也是跟我們反映這部分他們的認知是原本認知是不應該學長你講話要負責你最好把它搞清楚現在就是在這一點我們就是回來演繹"},{"start":127.243,"end":143.05,"text":"來 我們看一下齁 你看吧 我幫你整理一下嘛網協九場賽事 棒協兩場賽事 都有給是 這是我們去輔導要求他們給的對 但是你要進一步再去問 好不好他們繼續去問 他們說初賽分是體育署補助的方法"},{"start":143.51,"end":143.55,"text":"報告委員．"},{"start":158.747,"end":159.248,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":175.399,"end":175.9,"text":"包委員您講的沒有錯 這部分藍協的確應該要給"},{"start":195.595,"end":221.337,"text":"所以我就告訴你我剛條列出來嘛所以說我們目前為止我就是要求你在三個月之內你必須要好好的去把協會代表協會之前沒有他們是需要有一套的程序所以署長是體育署出錢請你好好的規範每一個協會的每一個的步驟所以我要求你要尊重魔法提出這個迅速修改國體法的施法的細節而且重要的是你要盤點到目前為止欠"},{"start":223.499,"end":228.902,"text":"出賽費的到底狀況是如何而且是怎麼樣給法怎麼樣的給法才是重點什麼是日前才說直接匯到他自己的一個戶頭這個部分這不是你當初所掌握到的好不好連我們立委都可以隨便問都可以問出來體育署更是應該做好這樣的一個防守的一個動作好了那我們在還是一樣大家都非常關切有關於防堵的這個問題那我真的必須要說很遺憾因為我們過去也常常去看棒球比賽你看嘛"},{"start":251.897,"end":272.321,"text":"署長你應該很清楚嗎從1996年開始到2019的黑巷事件這基本上面所牽涉的無法回到棒球圈的這個本土的球員將近100是幾乎是本土球員六分之一耶而且你有沒有看到當發生這件事情的時候呢整個人數下降是62.8而且你到2005的時候呢你跟以前比起來下降45%很多時候球場上只有1000個觀眾你看看現在"},{"start":282.043,"end":306.42,"text":"所以你就知道賭這件事情是非常的非常的嚴重的那我這邊要特別提出來的一個地方就是我們先來看一下很多的時候我們先來看看一個真的在當初也被影射要打假球可是他真的是竭身自愛不為利益所利用但是他現在今年他要退役了他一個發出一個非常沉痛的呼籲請署長來聽聽看"},{"start":308.561,"end":336.577,"text":"大家好我是鍾思琦我要很感謝柯志恩委員安排這次的議程然後針對運動賽事防堵的議題身為甲球公報經歷的最後一批球員我也將在今年退休那我們這些球員始終相信甲球公報它依然是存在著我也相信法律的認定更具體的政策我相信我們可以跟政府一起來做得更多"},{"start":338.905,"end":362.026,"text":"好,他當然還有講的非常的多那我只是告訴署長他其實在之前他就曾經來拜會過我我離開了立法院四年之後很多的事情他當初所力推希望能夠為這些未來的球員他甚至是一個要退場的老將署長我真的覺得你要好好地聽聽這些來自公會而且在第一線打球的選手他們的一個心聲你看"},{"start":363.647,"end":379.72,"text":"所以說我告訴你們,你們像體育署所編的預算你們只是在檢舉非法的賭盤,你們不是在做假求防制嗎?你看看嘛,你們說的每一件事情補助什麼減掉相關單位啊,然後你工作經費200萬啊,民眾檢舉獎金40萬啊240萬,我請問兩百四十萬要幹什麼?你這個方法你就是在檢舉非法賭盤,但是我們今天跟你講的是假求的防制署長你可以分辨出兩個的差別嗎?"},{"start":391.343,"end":409.541,"text":"報告委員其實我們在240萬這份防堵的預算我們主要主動在教育的部分以及減掉他們在跟我們的職業所以我就告訴你們你們在打假球你這個是在檢舉非法但是今天球員深切的期盼的是在假球的防制上面"},{"start":410.822,"end":418.624,"text":"所以他們也提出了一些信託的方式但是他們最希望是能夠讓我們的體育署我們的政府部門能夠帶頭來做起現在有沒有帶頭給他們一點示範讓他們這個工會的人員在推動這些事情的時候能夠告訴大家我們的政府在back up我們你們有沒有辦法做到這樣子一個keep it這樣的一個態度嗎"},{"start":432.793,"end":447.381,"text":"報告委員目前我們都是直接找球員公會來談這部分我們再跟他們再來請益一下他們對我們還有更多的期待的話我們這邊會來配合他們都一直在期待欸署長他們從你上任到現在都一直在期待期待在你可不可以給我們一個很具體給我們一個具體不管在補助的要點或在獎勵的要點上面你們是不是可以先撥一筆錢進去然後帶頭告訴大家我們是一起來可以做防堵報告委員您能不能講得更明確一點撥一筆錢是給"},{"start":459.167,"end":459.667,"text":"教育訓練歷經講座"},{"start":477.014,"end":477.134,"text":"信託基金"},{"start":497.372,"end":512.771,"text":"是嘛信託吸金嘛對不對你怎麼還問我說撲普哪裡組長你真的沒有進入狀況齁那我來問一個所以你承諾在三個月之內是起碼跟這些的公會的這些人能夠妥善的做好信託吸金的一些詳細可能未來執行的細節這是可以嗎"},{"start":515.074,"end":525.12,"text":"我們可以找他們來談沒有問題找他們來談然後徹底把它落實然後我希望在三個月之內給我們一個具體的結果我覺得這才是一個重點接下來我們問一個你比較熟的就是你們的足協好了好不好足協來說的話我說實在你以前當過他的一個秘書長我現在問足協給予經費是沒有問題可是當他們要五毛你給一塊的時候這其實就有很大的問題過去在邱毅仁的時代裡面呢通常你們補助通常都是一百萬左右可是你當上了這個之後呢你會發現"},{"start":544.611,"end":545.252,"text":"那你有沒有追究當初為什麼會這麼多的債務?"},{"start":568.511,"end":579.217,"text":"他是長期日記院但是你給這些錢我還是要強烈的你看看你們在過馬來西亞比賽的時候呢你的工作人力費你的預算的原本是86萬但你實際的花費是227萬那你給每一場的轉播費原來是50萬你實際的花費卻膨脹到130萬阿姐是怎樣"},{"start":590.242,"end":592.242,"text":"包委員,如果說一場賽事,差不多100出頭萬這樣子的一個轉播目前的確是行情,但是過去的確足協在辦賽事的時候他的轉播費、自籌款的比例真的比較高"},{"start":616.067,"end":616.788,"text":"轉正,但是他們所用的錢我還是強調工作人員你給個細項每個人去看你就會知道"},{"start":632.082,"end":633.443,"text":"巴黎奧運給我一分鐘的時間,你看你們外宿的品質,署長你們去了解為什麼每個都不一樣,我們的隊兵"},{"start":654.718,"end":661.48,"text":"那為什麼大會指定有高爾夫球代表團跟設計團好了你們的後勤補給團我說也實在你們後勤補給團是最貴的好不好一個晚上大概9021跟其他的選手比起來因為他是台商比較好"},{"start":679.224,"end":679.844,"text":"包委員 這個高爾夫跟社級代表隊他是選手村"},{"start":706.724,"end":707.887,"text":"那你的後勤支援團的部分呢?"},{"start":718.444,"end":721.686,"text":"這是本期今天再一次的告訴大家巴黎奧運的這個部分裡面不要讓我們的選手有相對博客感謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150853","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150853","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecd81d65f3546d9808e1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a660fe344e844efea75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"09:27:20 - 09:35:49","影片長度":"00:08:29","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"date":"2024-04-03","end_time":"2024-04-03T09:35:49+08:00","type":"Clip","duration":509,"start_time":"2024-04-03T09:27:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.74846875,"end":29.309093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.74784375,"end":33.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.439093750000005,"end":37.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.79721875,"end":39.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.822218750000005,"end":48.040343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.27659375,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.17846875,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.22346875000001,"end":69.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.06221875,"end":72.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.61034375,"end":84.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.77284375,"end":88.05096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.27034375000001,"end":90.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.17284375000001,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.19346875000001,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.47159375000001,"end":101.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.80409375,"end":106.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.71034375,"end":118.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.67909375,"end":120.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.15971875000001,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.62284375,"end":137.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.35534375,"end":139.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.70534375,"end":151.12971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.70346875,"end":161.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.84534375,"end":165.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.74346875,"end":169.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.74284375000002,"end":171.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.54409375,"end":174.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.14284375,"end":176.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.87659375,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.82159375,"end":179.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.72846875000002,"end":182.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.97284375,"end":206.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.76659375000003,"end":207.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.92659375000002,"end":210.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.76159375,"end":221.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.24096875,"end":223.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.59096875,"end":227.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.82659375,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.69034375,"end":241.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.41096875000002,"end":243.03096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.30096875,"end":257.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.08784375,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.96721875000003,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.65034375,"end":277.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.96221875000003,"end":278.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.11409375,"end":283.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.64909375,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.05784375,"end":298.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.12346875000003,"end":306.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.43034375,"end":308.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.16409375,"end":311.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.69534375,"end":325.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.80284375,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.94159375000004,"end":330.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.80596875000003,"end":343.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.38221875000005,"end":348.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.55034375,"end":352.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.22471875,"end":354.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.19909375000003,"end":364.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.89784375000005,"end":369.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.44159375000004,"end":374.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.97659375,"end":375.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.57971875000004,"end":388.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.69596875,"end":389.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.13034375,"end":391.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.51409375000003,"end":392.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.83034375,"end":393.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.82159375000003,"end":395.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.83409375,"end":396.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.79596875000004,"end":397.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.48346875000004,"end":400.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.69409375000004,"end":405.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.09409375,"end":407.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.13596875,"end":410.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.47721875,"end":412.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.79721875,"end":416.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.88971875000004,"end":420.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.31096875000003,"end":424.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.55096875000004,"end":427.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.72784375000003,"end":430.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.59659375,"end":434.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.73096875000005,"end":437.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.10596875000005,"end":442.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.91534375000003,"end":444.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.42971875,"end":446.83034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.57284375,"end":449.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.80034375,"end":461.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.96284375000005,"end":465.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.03409375,"end":480.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.71534375000005,"end":481.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.21721875000003,"end":485.15346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.18284375,"end":486.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.63409375000003,"end":488.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.22034375000004,"end":491.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.70096875,"end":493.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.14784375000005,"end":496.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.59471875,"end":500.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.86409375000005,"end":508.99784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":27.384,"end":47.405,"text":"謝謝主席非常感謝今天非常多的專家學者到我們的司法法制委員會針對國會改革的法案提出高見我相信各位學者所提供的高見都可以成為我們接下來在審理相關議案的時候重要的參考"},{"start":48.506,"end":68.931,"text":"事實上關於國會改革這也不是立法院第一次召開公聽會我們大概回顧過去這十幾年在立法院針對國會改革的倡議從來沒有停止過但是始終沒有完成最核心的部分"},{"start":70.111,"end":84.734,"text":"我所尊敬的眾議院曲海源老師他在2011年11月的時候其實曾經送給當時的蔡英文主席一本《國會及電視媒體改革建議案》"},{"start":86.059,"end":106.618,"text":"邱老師在長期推動整個國會改革的過程當中他也針對綠營的台灣智庫當初在2011年12月的時候所發表的終結亂象國會改革政策白皮書提出了非常多的建言"},{"start":107.779,"end":126.802,"text":"那這個白皮書可以說是集當時律營重要在關心國會改革的學者包括林哲水包括當時也在參與立法委員選舉的林佳龍他們所共同提出的一個版本"},{"start":127.699,"end":150.707,"text":"在這個漫長的整個國會改革的過程當中事實上早期大法官會議的解釋是相對保守的譬如說在4至3月5日之後就有關於限制國會的調查權限於文件的調閱那個時候林卓水先生他就非常一針見血的指出"},{"start":151.807,"end":168.726,"text":"建立聽證調查制度的必要性建立聽證調查制度的必要性那為什麼這件事情重要呢因為文件調閱權的行使只能看不能問成效顯然非常的不彰"},{"start":169.947,"end":187.063,"text":"我們在看國外不同的中央政府體制從美國的總統制到英國的內閣制到法國的雙首長制德國在中央政府體制上面不同的學者有不同的歸類"},{"start":188.104,"end":209.33,"text":"但是這一些民主先進國家國會的調查權沒有一個國家的調查權像我們過去對我們國會的調查權如此的限縮按照過去非常多綠營的學者以及政治人物的批判這個是過去威權、獨裁"},{"start":211.809,"end":226.961,"text":"的幽靈繼續盤旋在我國立法院的上空這是為什麼過去一二十年來這麼多的有事之事包括我們所知道的民進黨的理論大師林濁水"},{"start":227.901,"end":247.654,"text":"包括耶魯大學政治學的博士林佳龍現在是我們總統府的秘書長提出過這個具體的主張他們當初是怎麼說的呢他們當初說的是競速訂定有關行使調查聽證的專章落實憲法所賦予國會的調查權"},{"start":252.757,"end":274.105,"text":"而國會調查的事由包括了行政的監督包括了立法的準備包括了政策的形成包括了政府總統的彈劾以及行使人事同意權而立法院職權行使法應該賦予調查委員會一定的職權例如召開聽證會"},{"start":275.726,"end":285.965,"text":"例如調閱文件例如傳喚證人例如處罰偽證這些都是擠過去十幾年"},{"start":287.473,"end":307.729,"text":"這麼多有識之士要驅逐在台灣國會上面威權的幽靈要束縛台灣的國會根本不要監督不要行使調查權只要負責出來洗地負責出來護航就可以了這些歷史的文件"},{"start":309.672,"end":330.468,"text":"這一些一針見血的論述讓人非常遺憾的是在2016年的時候蔡英文自己提出要建立國會聽證調查的制度到2024年的今天本院還在討論這個問題整整跳票了8年整整跳票了8年"},{"start":332.844,"end":352.439,"text":"更重要的事情是提升人事同意權審查制度的品質我們還要再繼續拖下去嗎我們來複習一下當初民進黨在野的時候痛批馬政府對大法官的提名跟審查根本就是什麼"},{"start":353.32,"end":374.273,"text":"負責出來護航的把立法院當立法局那個時候所痛批的大法官審查的期日從公佈到投票日數21天那個時候還有民間監督大法官聯盟所有的學者所有的NGO一起出來痛批結果呢"},{"start":376.658,"end":397.087,"text":"掌握權力以後的民主進步黨一樣把大法官的審查當兒戲就在2023年大法官提名審查的時候從公佈到投票日數22天有沒有進步有進步多了一天但是看在過去參與這麼多民間監督大法官聯盟的團體"},{"start":406.158,"end":412.6,"text":"跟學者眼中這是一個不及格的大法官的審查我們還要放任如為而系把立法院當成立法局這樣的大法官制度的審查嗎也正是因為這個樣子這一次我們所提出來的法案從國會聽證調查制度的建立"},{"start":434.81,"end":461.36,"text":"到強化人事同意權的審查是我們從一開始的時候我們就堅持的主軸我們所提出來的議案一點都不新奇一點也不創新是過去這十幾年來從民進黨在野的時候還有理想性的時候還知道國會不能被閹割的時候早就提出來的倡議法案"},{"start":463.619,"end":484.899,"text":"2012年的時候林佳龍就提啦林佳龍就提啦當初林佳龍提的時候多少的學者出來站下多少的學者認為國會改革勢在必行結果過了12年原地踏步一事無成蔡英文改革的承諾跳票"},{"start":486.243,"end":508.218,"text":"我們今天在這邊審理有關於國會改革的議案我們必須要對歷史負責對台灣的民主負責絕對不能夠因為換了政黨執政換了位置就換了腦袋因為我們要負責任的是對全體的國民是對我們的下一代謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150852","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150852","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ec0b0bb113b381d07d15c351beec3062dcf8ba9b0039caa7a67f3fb144ae80d30a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:15:33 - 09:29:52","影片長度":"00:14:19","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"date":"2024-04-03","duration":859,"end_time":"2024-04-03T09:29:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-03T09:15:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.61596875,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.29909375,"end":13.598468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.53471875,"end":36.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.51471875,"end":48.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.681593750000005,"end":54.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.72284375,"end":63.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.502218750000004,"end":63.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.71721875,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.00284375000001,"end":99.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.33596875,"end":101.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.15846875000001,"end":103.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.81221875,"end":110.20784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.25846875,"end":117.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.68846875000001,"end":113.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.51534375000001,"end":115.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.95784375000001,"end":135.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.65534375000001,"end":160.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.63034375,"end":160.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.64721875,"end":174.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.46096875,"end":164.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.57909375,"end":164.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.51034375,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.96596875,"end":174.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.97409375,"end":181.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.80846875,"end":183.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.24721875,"end":182.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.95159375,"end":200.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.20784375000002,"end":192.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.97971875000002,"end":193.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.89846875,"end":200.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.37096875,"end":200.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.52284375000002,"end":200.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.57346875000002,"end":200.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.92784375000002,"end":213.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.99534375000002,"end":201.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.29659375000003,"end":237.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.19221875000002,"end":237.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.39471875,"end":265.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.79971875,"end":275.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.15284375000005,"end":278.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.08909375,"end":286.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.35784375000003,"end":289.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.79159375,"end":305.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.12034375,"end":292.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.92409375,"end":306.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.24471875,"end":326.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.53846875,"end":316.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.94221875,"end":328.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.35096875000005,"end":338.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.40846875,"end":347.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.49971875,"end":368.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.36159375,"end":369.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.63971875000004,"end":372.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.69846875,"end":376.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.68096875000003,"end":378.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.04346875000005,"end":381.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.75596875,"end":389.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.75034375,"end":393.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.73721875,"end":398.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.38221875000005,"end":398.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.85471875,"end":399.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.76596875,"end":418.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.96971875,"end":424.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.97284375000004,"end":438.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.73034375000003,"end":439.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.37159375000005,"end":445.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.38846875,"end":439.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.77596875,"end":446.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.20596875,"end":469.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.98284375000003,"end":472.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.06221875000006,"end":488.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.12971875000005,"end":475.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.68659375000004,"end":475.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.69721875000005,"end":506.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.62721875000005,"end":507.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.07409375000003,"end":514.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.85346875,"end":522.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":522.58221875,"end":522.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.69596875,"end":524.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.4722187500001,"end":554.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.64471875,"end":557.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.6272187500001,"end":558.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.94784375,"end":558.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.96471875,"end":574.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.5234687500001,"end":574.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.28284375,"end":621.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.4653437500001,"end":638.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.1940937500001,"end":630.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.12534375,"end":640.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.5303437499999,"end":654.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.3928437500001,"end":655.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.3547187500001,"end":674.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.1597187500001,"end":662.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.56284375,"end":679.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.64221875,"end":684.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.1772187500001,"end":684.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.27846875,"end":684.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.0209687500001,"end":685.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.3078437500001,"end":686.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.50596875,"end":689.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.37471875,"end":695.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.1928437500001,"end":704.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.36909375,"end":698.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.08534375,"end":730.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.1740937500001,"end":731.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.11909375,"end":760.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":761.1440937500001,"end":767.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.23596875,"end":807.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":807.73596875,"end":821.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":819.7509687500001,"end":835.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":823.3959687500001,"end":823.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.3015937500002,"end":838.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.98471875,"end":836.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":837.3684687500001,"end":854.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":841.5534687500001,"end":842.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":854.9184687500001,"end":855.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.1884687500001,"end":855.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.3403437500001,"end":856.26846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.637,"end":11.678,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請次長跟署長好次長跟署長請"},{"start":16.827,"end":35.559,"text":"市長 署長之前有看到說藍鞋他們在內部開會的時候居然有講是說國手打不好要懲處後來藍鞋是出來講是說這是個別代表意見並不是最後的一個結論但是馬上就讓國人炸鍋覺得是說我們現在國手是"},{"start":36.601,"end":52.937,"text":"大家攔斜或是我們的相關單位是慣老闆嗎就是說這個選手去打比賽你可能出場費都還不知道有沒有然後結果打不好居然還要懲處有沒有這樣的事情還是我們未來會不會有這樣這是我們這個上級機關的態度嗎"},{"start":55.099,"end":79.322,"text":"跟委員報告一下,我想那個攔協個別的人員的這個相關意見那這個部分並沒有納入你認同嗎?你認同這樣的態度嗎?應該是不認同這樣子的一個手法那我們應該是更和諧的方式來處理狗肝小肝的事情每一位選手,我想只要能夠披上中華隊的戰袍不管是大小賽事、國內國外賽事都一定是"},{"start":80.643,"end":101.21,"text":"聽盡全力 全力以赴拿到獎牌這個是至少無上光榮打不好 有很多的因素但如果說打不好的話就究責那下一次誰要願意披上這個戰袍那再者好像是慣老闆就是你有收益的時候我才要付薪水這樣子我想是不對的"},{"start":102.439,"end":118.113,"text":"所以次長,未來我們應該不會有任何的這個協會或是說我們的中央機關會還有這樣的一個思維或想法吧?應該是不會有這樣子的思維跟想法,對,不能夠有這樣子的思維跟想法來,那我再請教"},{"start":118.974,"end":143.546,"text":"你們今天討論裡面有講到是說出賽費的部分出賽費某種程度上本席的理解以及我們國民體育法第21條其實當初的立法精神它比較像是一個出賽的基本薪資的概念嘛它不是獎金喔獎金是另外的獎金出賽費是說我今天出場一場球賽可能五千塊一萬塊的一個車馬費補貼它是出賽費"},{"start":147.079,"end":166.876,"text":"那我們在第4頁你的出賽費還有講說未來應在賽前跟選手溝通說明讓選手得以賽前掌握出賽費的相關資訊那到底是要給選手還是不給選手跟委員報告一下依照國民體育法第21條對是的如果是特定體育團體舉辦或參與這個受益的這個商業性賽事時應該祝福選手的出賽費是"},{"start":173.101,"end":197.799,"text":"那就有一個盲點到底是有盈餘有獲利才要給出賽費還是這個球賽只要賣票就要給出賽費當初的立法精神是什麼如果它是獲有門票、廣告、媒體收入其他商業性質的收入而且盈餘的時候而且有盈餘嗎立法精神是而且有盈餘嗎這個是在我們的執法施行細則第7條是有這樣子的一個規定"},{"start":199.901,"end":212.739,"text":"不是啊我們當初的立法精神執法不能逾越母法國民體育法第21條寫的第4款寫得清清楚楚明明白白就是當初的立法精神我們講了"},{"start":217.372,"end":234.329,"text":"主管機關應該按照國際運動賽會制定國家代表隊培訓及參賽選手零用金制度特定體育團體舉辦或參與具收益之商業性賽會應支付選手出賽費有寫到盈餘兩個字嗎?"},{"start":237.852,"end":259.225,"text":"報告委員我想這個回歸到我們當時委員們在立這個法的精神那我們分為幾個簡單的分為幾個量態如果我們現在在輔導協會如果你今天是一個表演賽事純商業的賽事就算你不一定有盈餘我覺得應該也是要把出賽費列為成本之一但是如果它是一個正式錦標賽比方說亞錦賽那我們是希望協會有盈餘的時候要來給這樣的出賽費我想這樣子會比較"},{"start":265.449,"end":287.022,"text":"這變成是我們主管機關體育署反而是還讓選手跟這些我們的體育團體來去喬啊?初賽賽可以用喬的對不對?你還要讓他們直接去跟選手去喬說欸你們去喬只要你們喬得好的話就不要來煩我啊我主管機關沒有意見只要你們喬得好報告委員這部分我們是有在要求協會要那個如果是純商業賽是應該要給"},{"start":290.104,"end":315.312,"text":"但是回到母法精神嘛我們現在當初立法為什麼要立這一條法為什麼當初在立法院教育文化委員會的時候討論那麼久就是認為是說過去長期以來選手相對來講是弱勢而出賽費並不是獎金本席再強調一點沒錯不管是一場比賽三千五千一萬那叫車馬費那叫出賽費那叫最基本的一個出賽的補貼"},{"start":316.952,"end":317.152,"text":"蘇貞昌 蘇貞昌"},{"start":338.576,"end":347.142,"text":"一般民間企業可以講是說等我今天公司有賺錢了我開一家餐廳餐廳裡面有收入了我再給廚師錢我再給服務生錢可以這樣嗎"},{"start":348.584,"end":369.31,"text":"那個是基本薪資基本薪資是你只要有開店做生意你就應該給基本薪資額外獎金是我跟你講說我跟你制定好我達到多少業績我達到多少門檻我可以額外再發個獎金這是兩個不一樣的概念所以今天講的是出賽費本席看到你第4頁的第3點寫出賽費本席就很失望"},{"start":370.677,"end":388.752,"text":"你搞得好像是還要協會可以去跟選手溝通跟選手喬出賽費還可以用喬的喔?阿如果說這樣的話我們當初制定這條法令就不用啦我給你母法的精神讓你主管機關好做事結果你居然是說你選手可以協會跟選手喬有沒有檢討的空間阿?次長"},{"start":395.539,"end":423.738,"text":"市長這是你的慣老闆心態嗎這個部分基本上 包含剛剛提到的收入有盈餘當然這個盈餘的解釋是有這個空間如果是把那個出賽會的部分也列為支出的話那基本上這個當然有討論的空間我想委員的意見的部分我們是不是請體育署這邊我們會來進行進一步的研議進一步研議 什麼時候可以研議你其實之前已經研議過了研議出來的結果就是今天這樣啊你要再研議怎麼樣"},{"start":426.438,"end":444.333,"text":"我們今天很心平氣和的大家都是為了讓國內的體育運動發展的產業層面更好那我們現在在講這個最基本的你可以認同我剛剛講薪資跟獎金的概念嗎我認同認同非常好那這樣子是不是應該要給予選手最基本的保障不管說一場出賽費"},{"start":446.335,"end":448.435,"text":"包委員我們會往這個方向來做研議啦"},{"start":475.283,"end":504.071,"text":"因為我們現在的癥結點是在於比方說像亞警賽、市警賽這樣子的一個正式的錦標賽而大部分其實九成都是沒有盈餘都會虧錢那這部分是靠政府在支持是,但是這些比賽都有收門票而且它有有形跟無形的收益有些時候它可能是贊助的一個眼球的焦點有些時候如果說它真的很多人在討論的時候國內觀眾的一個關注度其實這都是有形無形的"},{"start":510.136,"end":522.348,"text":"三個月內請要求體育署針對這個部分符合魔法精神要求國內外的賽事都應該要符合魔法精神費率怎麼樣你們來定力但是重點是出賽費的精神一定要保有"},{"start":524.552,"end":539.277,"text":"來再來喔其實本席今天準備很多的一個題目啦那其中很重要假球現在持棒35年今天我支持的兄弟像要在這個首戰主場首戰也要開打那直籃剛剛報告裡面有講到"},{"start":541.058,"end":557.756,"text":"有發生疑似假球案寫得也蠻含蓄的啦但重點在於是說假球是大家都沒有辦法接受的我先請教今天有看到說可能未來的台灣運財裡面會發行也要研議國內的直燃運動是不是有譜了"},{"start":559.387,"end":574.644,"text":"目前只有SBL已經確定是已經正在進行當中那我們在今年的第三屆剛簽約的時候我們有跟台灣運彩公司要求他們要去研議T聯盟跟P聯盟也要納進來那目前他們還在做計算當中是"},{"start":575.345,"end":602.987,"text":"因為運彩當然它的這個機制最主要是它需要有更多的數據來去算出賠率讓大家參與但是如果說能夠放入運彩的話其實會是三贏的局面第一這個聯盟的賽事也會更多人看第二也有更多的一個這個效益還有第三球迷去看球的時候我花一百塊兩百塊我去支持一下我自己的心目中的球隊也算是一種更投入的參與嘛是不是那"},{"start":603.747,"end":616.323,"text":"現在的重點就在於是說還沒有納入那我們也講如果說打假球的話就會有運彩發行條例21條來防範假球防制對不對可是現在運彩發行條例21條只有說投注標的運動競技賽事"},{"start":622.483,"end":638.49,"text":"對﹗"},{"start":638.67,"end":653.502,"text":"好 那我們現在應不應該要去檢討因為我們既然也希望能夠培養我們國內職籃賽事能夠嚇阻就要用比較高的一個刑責那目前的法規居然是沒有規範到而沒有規範到主要原因是因為他沒有納入我們的頭"},{"start":654.468,"end":656.128,"text":"剛同仁已經回報說T1已經納入了現在剩下P聯盟"},{"start":683.734,"end":685.936,"text":"本席也提起就是我們這邊也會針對這個修法的部分"},{"start":705.774,"end":729.992,"text":"國內重大賽事或是說金主管機關認可的賽事應該也要一致因為它有可能是現在還沒有被投注標的但有可能是未來潛在的投注標的那我們當然都要健全這樣的一個產業防止假球的發生那最後今天本席有一個臨時提案也是針對現在我們的中華職棒在2020年有成立一個球員的防堵"},{"start":732.207,"end":760.021,"text":"就是希望球員他們自發性的他們也可以提撥一些基金跟聯盟跟這個球團來提供基金那未來這個球員他們如果說退休的時候他們有另外一筆的一個創業基金或是收入那目前這個是對於整個職業運動生涯的一個延續那我們也想是說既然中華職棒已經推廣了幾年的時間感覺起來成效也都還可以那是不是有考慮在直男運動這部分也可以來積極的來推動"},{"start":761.275,"end":784.802,"text":"幫委員這部分我們也是請藍鞋這邊要去做跟聯盟做討論的確已經提醒他們這一點好那我也希望啊體育署這邊能夠有更積極的角色我們今天也一個這個臨時提案我最重點在於說希望體育署以身為主管機關的部分瞭解一下說職業棒球他們現在的防堵球員防堵基金現在運行面臨到一個什麼樣的不足的地方"},{"start":785.262,"end":805.463,"text":"能夠做一個經濟那以及如果說直籃球員這邊也有考慮要成立的話能夠來協助他們找勞資雙方共同來討論延伤在3個月內能夠提出直籃運動當然他們是要自己成立但我是說體育署這邊能夠有一個比較積極的角色去媒合去討論他們的一個雙方進行這樣可以嗎"},{"start":808.016,"end":810.138,"text":"所以就是因為比較難掌握所以我才麻煩主管機關要去掌握"},{"start":825.33,"end":825.59,"text":"蘇長,可以同意嗎?"},{"start":855.431,"end":855.452,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"15785","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15785","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dbb5d33df7eda7d070a73ccf8a48a70923be8d109af184be4f96d4a9b11b68f975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部次長率體育署列席就「完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-03","start_time":"2024-04-03T08:31:37+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-03T13:21:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":17363,"委員發言時間":"08:31:37 - 13:21:00","影片長度":"04:49:23","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1707.4940937500003,"end":1715.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1715.6447187500003,"end":1742.7797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1743.3365937500002,"end":1831.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1831.55909375,"end":1842.4434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1842.5784687500002,"end":1845.0253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1845.05909375,"end":1848.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1853.1759687500003,"end":1883.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1885.6434687500002,"end":1889.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1890.6553437500002,"end":1894.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1895.24534375,"end":1909.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1909.7240937500003,"end":1935.6778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1940.9934687500001,"end":1995.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1995.6009687500002,"end":2063.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2064.8728437500004,"end":2065.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2065.9697187500005,"end":2109.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2109.8447187500005,"end":2114.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2115.2109687500006,"end":2119.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2120.34096875,"end":2143.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2143.7634687500004,"end":2176.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2176.0790937500005,"end":2204.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2205.1715937500003,"end":2213.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2214.7059687500005,"end":2251.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2251.9490937500004,"end":2276.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2277.4303437500002,"end":2295.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2295.48659375,"end":2304.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2304.97034375,"end":2306.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2307.0459687500006,"end":2312.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2313.01971875,"end":2314.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2315.43284375,"end":2320.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2321.0690937500003,"end":2322.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2322.3515937500006,"end":2324.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2325.4228437500005,"end":2349.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2349.80721875,"end":2354.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2354.49846875,"end":2368.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2369.43284375,"end":2393.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2393.91846875,"end":2409.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2409.27471875,"end":2414.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2414.75909375,"end":2419.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2419.9059687500003,"end":2440.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2441.4215937500003,"end":2462.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2463.1903437500005,"end":2464.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2464.72596875,"end":2466.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2466.29534375,"end":2467.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2468.33721875,"end":2472.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2472.97784375,"end":2478.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2478.6815937500005,"end":2484.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2484.2165937500004,"end":2486.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2486.41034375,"end":2524.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2525.00346875,"end":2556.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2557.0322187500005,"end":2559.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2560.0528437500006,"end":2574.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2575.42596875,"end":2588.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2589.7022187500006,"end":2598.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2599.00034375,"end":2636.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2644.2253437500003,"end":2646.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2646.90846875,"end":2648.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2651.1609687500004,"end":2653.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2653.5065937500003,"end":2670.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2671.1240937500006,"end":2682.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2683.32471875,"end":2688.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2689.34909375,"end":2698.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2697.12846875,"end":2697.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2697.31409375,"end":2697.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2697.7022187500006,"end":2697.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2698.32659375,"end":2706.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2706.20721875,"end":2733.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2734.9453437500006,"end":2736.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2736.78471875,"end":2737.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2738.4384687500005,"end":2744.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2744.8847187500005,"end":2751.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2747.31471875,"end":2747.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2747.38221875,"end":2747.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2748.1415937500005,"end":2750.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2751.5672187500004,"end":2753.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2753.47409375,"end":2770.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2770.29846875,"end":2795.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2795.2565937500003,"end":2795.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2795.2734687500006,"end":2809.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2807.11971875,"end":2807.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2807.5753437500007,"end":2809.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2809.6003437500003,"end":2816.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2816.4178437500004,"end":2818.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2818.61159375,"end":2834.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2825.8172187500004,"end":2826.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2827.60596875,"end":2828.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2834.47409375,"end":2834.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2834.52471875,"end":2834.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2834.6090937500003,"end":2834.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2834.64284375,"end":2835.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2835.0309687500003,"end":2835.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2835.5709687500002,"end":2835.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2835.60471875,"end":2836.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2835.62159375,"end":2848.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2851.9228437500005,"end":2871.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2871.78471875,"end":2871.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2872.0378437500003,"end":2900.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2899.42596875,"end":2909.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2907.88034375,"end":2912.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2910.71534375,"end":2921.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2918.9840937500003,"end":2924.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2924.4178437500004,"end":2940.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2926.7634687500004,"end":2926.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2940.5672187500004,"end":2940.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2940.85409375,"end":2961.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2951.1647187500002,"end":2951.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2959.58534375,"end":2963.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2963.01096875,"end":2972.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2973.01784375,"end":2982.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2983.1090937500003,"end":3002.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3002.9540937500005,"end":3004.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3005.26596875,"end":3006.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3007.30784375,"end":3012.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3013.6697187500004,"end":3016.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3017.3653437500006,"end":3024.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3026.37659375,"end":3027.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3029.36346875,"end":3029.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3029.38034375,"end":3033.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3032.5359687500004,"end":3032.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3032.8565937500007,"end":3034.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3034.39221875,"end":3053.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3053.71409375,"end":3053.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3053.83221875,"end":3053.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3053.96721875,"end":3058.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3060.59909375,"end":3073.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3073.3565937500007,"end":3074.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3074.0147187500006,"end":3080.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3078.36846875,"end":3080.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3080.84909375,"end":3103.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3104.59221875,"end":3107.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3109.6715937500003,"end":3123.4922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3109.77284375,"end":3110.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3110.31284375,"end":3110.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3123.3065937500005,"end":3139.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3139.2197187500005,"end":3142.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3139.23659375,"end":3141.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3141.7003437500007,"end":3149.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3149.47971875,"end":3157.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3157.25909375,"end":3157.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3158.3053437500002,"end":3158.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3159.08159375,"end":3188.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3189.2540937500007,"end":3191.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3191.6334687500002,"end":3192.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3193.25346875,"end":3209.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3209.14971875,"end":3209.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3209.89221875,"end":3256.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3257.1084687500006,"end":3272.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3272.73471875,"end":3273.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3273.03846875,"end":3273.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3273.0722187500005,"end":3273.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3273.1228437500004,"end":3273.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3273.1397187500006,"end":3274.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3273.17346875,"end":3288.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3288.9684687500003,"end":3289.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3289.96409375,"end":3308.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3295.76909375,"end":3297.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3297.4059687500003,"end":3297.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3308.18909375,"end":3314.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3313.23471875,"end":3319.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3319.63034375,"end":3319.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3319.93409375,"end":3321.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3321.13221875,"end":3324.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3323.9840937500003,"end":3329.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3326.8190937500003,"end":3333.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3332.99534375,"end":3333.1134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3333.13034375,"end":3333.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3333.7715937500006,"end":3339.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3339.7115937500002,"end":3364.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3365.80034375,"end":3366.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3366.7284687500005,"end":3395.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3395.75346875,"end":3401.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3401.8790937500007,"end":3442.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3442.2440937500005,"end":3455.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3454.3434687500003,"end":3470.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3458.05596875,"end":3458.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3467.87721875,"end":3472.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3470.6953437500006,"end":3471.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3472.0115937500004,"end":3489.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3476.14596875,"end":3476.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3489.88221875,"end":3490.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3493.51034375,"end":3499.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3505.1540937500004,"end":3506.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3508.20846875,"end":3509.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3511.9040937500004,"end":3512.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3512.3934687500005,"end":3580.7540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3580.9228437500005,"end":3583.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3584.2978437500005,"end":3585.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3585.7490937500006,"end":3588.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3588.55034375,"end":3595.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3589.4278437500006,"end":3590.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3596.1103437500005,"end":3602.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3602.7928437500004,"end":3618.8240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3618.6553437500006,"end":3622.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3621.1190937500005,"end":3624.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3624.39284375,"end":3627.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3624.46034375,"end":3624.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3624.6290937500007,"end":3625.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3628.0040937500007,"end":3633.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3631.9697187500005,"end":3634.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3634.21409375,"end":3640.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3636.8634687500007,"end":3637.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3640.96409375,"end":3651.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3651.0722187500005,"end":3656.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3655.8309687500005,"end":3661.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3661.4840937500003,"end":3664.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3664.2684687500005,"end":3672.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3667.9303437500002,"end":3669.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3672.80721875,"end":3688.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3688.88909375,"end":3692.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3692.8884687500004,"end":3706.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3704.7009687500004,"end":3705.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3706.1522187500004,"end":3706.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3706.1690937500007,"end":3706.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3706.55721875,"end":3780.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3731.5153437500003,"end":3731.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3731.85284375,"end":3731.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3732.0553437500002,"end":3732.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3732.0722187500005,"end":3732.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3732.39284375,"end":3732.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3737.7253437500003,"end":3738.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3781.1953437500006,"end":3805.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3806.05221875,"end":3813.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3832.9678437500006,"end":3834.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3836.30909375,"end":3885.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3838.7390937500004,"end":3838.8234687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3838.84034375,"end":3838.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3843.34596875,"end":3843.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3843.3797187500004,"end":3843.7003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3843.7003437500007,"end":3843.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3886.27596875,"end":3888.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3888.7734687500006,"end":3897.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3897.6159687500003,"end":3929.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3908.09534375,"end":3908.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3908.3990937500002,"end":3908.4834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3930.2353437500005,"end":3938.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3938.0822187500007,"end":3953.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3942.25034375,"end":3944.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3952.56096875,"end":3956.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3956.5772187500006,"end":3964.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3963.5634687500005,"end":3965.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3965.16659375,"end":3971.4103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3970.9715937500005,"end":3979.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3977.2490937500006,"end":3978.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3979.0378437500003,"end":3979.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3979.1559687500003,"end":3985.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3983.6953437500006,"end":3986.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3986.1759687500007,"end":3992.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3992.5378437500003,"end":3995.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3994.74846875,"end":4012.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3996.62159375,"end":3998.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4012.3659687500003,"end":4014.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4013.96909375,"end":4053.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4018.3397187500004,"end":4018.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4023.1490937500002,"end":4023.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4023.1659687500005,"end":4023.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4053.62534375,"end":4063.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4062.9572187500007,"end":4077.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4065.7584687500002,"end":4066.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4066.77096875,"end":4068.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4068.1715937500003,"end":4068.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4077.67221875,"end":4103.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4101.8709687499995,"end":4123.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4123.167218750001,"end":4148.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4129.309718750001,"end":4129.394093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":4129.394093749999,"end":4131.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4148.2772187499995,"end":4152.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4151.247218750001,"end":4151.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4152.124718749999,"end":4161.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4162.13159375,"end":4163.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4163.02596875,"end":4164.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4163.937218749999,"end":4174.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4173.454718749999,"end":4179.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4178.095343749999,"end":4181.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4180.32284375,"end":4181.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4181.45346875,"end":4182.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4182.7528437500005,"end":4189.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4187.950343750001,"end":4190.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4190.279093749999,"end":4201.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4192.304093750001,"end":4192.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4200.53909375,"end":4205.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4204.99409375,"end":4210.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4210.32659375,"end":4212.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4212.4022187499995,"end":4215.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4215.8447187500005,"end":4221.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4218.359093749999,"end":4219.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4221.362843749999,"end":4225.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4223.72534375,"end":4231.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4229.63159375,"end":4244.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4243.80659375,"end":4243.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4243.84034375,"end":4244.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4244.616593750001,"end":4244.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4244.7684687500005,"end":4245.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4248.48096875,"end":4250.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4256.07471875,"end":4256.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4258.65659375,"end":4261.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4269.72659375,"end":4273.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4273.28721875,"end":4275.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4277.97846875,"end":4293.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4294.2459687499995,"end":4298.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4298.63346875,"end":4298.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4298.65034375,"end":4298.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4298.86971875,"end":4300.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4301.16471875,"end":4304.472218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4304.92784375,"end":4306.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4306.024718750001,"end":4306.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4306.4803437499995,"end":4313.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4313.02784375,"end":4318.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4319.11971875,"end":4323.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4323.608468750001,"end":4344.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4345.05659375,"end":4345.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4345.073468750001,"end":4345.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4345.124093750001,"end":4347.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4347.739718750001,"end":4352.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4352.852843750001,"end":4357.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4357.341593749999,"end":4357.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4359.079718749999,"end":4359.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4359.788468750001,"end":4363.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4361.003468749999,"end":4361.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4362.269093749999,"end":4363.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4363.28159375,"end":4364.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4363.78784375,"end":4364.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4364.091593749999,"end":4364.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4364.59784375,"end":4364.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4364.614718750001,"end":4364.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4365.0028437500005,"end":4381.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4381.911593750001,"end":4389.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4389.30284375,"end":4389.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4389.35346875,"end":4389.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4390.61909375,"end":4418.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4418.31096875,"end":4435.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4425.43221875,"end":4428.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4435.65846875,"end":4435.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4435.74284375,"end":4435.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4435.84409375,"end":4446.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4447.04909375,"end":4448.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4448.78721875,"end":4483.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4484.73096875,"end":4531.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4532.571593750001,"end":4534.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4534.93409375,"end":4535.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4535.74409375,"end":4537.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4538.612843749999,"end":4538.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4538.62971875,"end":4564.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4564.04346875,"end":4593.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4569.983468750001,"end":4570.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4570.675343749999,"end":4570.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4570.94534375,"end":4571.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4594.14846875,"end":4595.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4595.7684687500005,"end":4640.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4640.234093749999,"end":4656.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4656.366593750001,"end":4688.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4689.1884687500005,"end":4692.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4692.71534375,"end":4721.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4721.03159375,"end":4734.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4734.02534375,"end":4832.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4832.96346875,"end":4856.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4856.03159375,"end":4949.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4905.593468749999,"end":4906.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4950.548468749999,"end":4952.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4952.91096875,"end":4953.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4953.231593750001,"end":4954.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4954.767218749999,"end":4954.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4954.868468750001,"end":4996.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4996.347218750001,"end":5004.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5005.1053437499995,"end":5018.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5018.40284375,"end":5019.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5022.75659375,"end":5027.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5044.23846875,"end":5047.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5047.98471875,"end":5050.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5048.03534375,"end":5048.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5050.904093749999,"end":5051.798468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5053.14846875,"end":5054.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5054.616593750001,"end":5054.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5055.71346875,"end":5063.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5064.15096875,"end":5066.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5067.1884687500005,"end":5067.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5069.44971875,"end":5073.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5073.786593750001,"end":5076.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5077.43159375,"end":5083.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5083.202843749999,"end":5093.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5093.530343750001,"end":5155.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5121.72846875,"end":5122.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5155.19159375,"end":5176.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5176.50471875,"end":5176.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5176.79159375,"end":5176.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5176.97721875,"end":5179.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5179.60971875,"end":5179.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5179.8290937500005,"end":5179.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5179.913468750001,"end":5181.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5181.364718750001,"end":5203.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5185.954718749999,"end":5187.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5187.25409375,"end":5187.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5188.013468749999,"end":5188.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5188.09784375,"end":5191.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5191.65846875,"end":5191.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5205.42846875,"end":5208.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5208.179093750001,"end":5208.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5208.5165937500005,"end":5217.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5218.52346875,"end":5218.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5218.55721875,"end":5222.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5218.810343749999,"end":5219.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5222.809718750001,"end":5231.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5231.82096875,"end":5237.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5236.1747187500005,"end":5236.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5237.423468749999,"end":5237.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5237.59221875,"end":5237.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5237.64284375,"end":5237.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5237.69346875,"end":5237.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5237.96346875,"end":5239.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5239.41471875,"end":5239.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5239.583468750001,"end":5239.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5239.78596875,"end":5248.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5240.427218750001,"end":5240.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5248.47659375,"end":5249.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5249.16846875,"end":5249.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5249.97846875,"end":5291.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5292.67221875,"end":5296.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5296.722218750001,"end":5337.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5338.60596875,"end":5356.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5348.54534375,"end":5348.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5348.64659375,"end":5348.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5348.83221875,"end":5349.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5353.489718750001,"end":5367.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5367.58034375,"end":5378.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5378.700968749999,"end":5400.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5400.638468749999,"end":5400.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5400.655343750001,"end":5400.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5400.8915937500005,"end":5400.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5401.920968750001,"end":5402.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5402.30909375,"end":5402.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5402.342843750001,"end":5402.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5403.20346875,"end":5403.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5403.692843750001,"end":5404.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5404.04721875,"end":5409.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5410.020968750001,"end":5462.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5462.4853437500005,"end":5462.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5462.8397187499995,"end":5463.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5463.21096875,"end":5463.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5463.413468750001,"end":5469.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5465.6747187500005,"end":5469.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5469.977843750001,"end":5469.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5469.99471875,"end":5470.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5470.028468750001,"end":5471.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5470.41659375,"end":5470.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5471.901593750001,"end":5471.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5471.91846875,"end":5472.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5473.639718750001,"end":5538.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5538.608468750001,"end":5538.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5538.642218749999,"end":5538.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5538.67596875,"end":5538.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5539.73909375,"end":5548.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5548.69971875,"end":5579.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5579.49659375,"end":5579.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5580.15471875,"end":5595.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5595.966593749999,"end":5619.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5605.80471875,"end":5607.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5617.920968750001,"end":5636.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5620.249718749999,"end":5621.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5635.859093749999,"end":5644.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5638.18784375,"end":5638.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5640.0272187499995,"end":5640.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5642.4403437500005,"end":5642.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5643.30096875,"end":5645.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5645.96721875,"end":5646.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5646.28784375,"end":5716.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5718.02346875,"end":5721.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5722.073468750001,"end":5723.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5723.5584687499995,"end":5723.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5723.59221875,"end":5724.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5724.030968749999,"end":5724.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5724.57096875,"end":5724.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5724.604718750001,"end":5724.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5724.72284375,"end":5725.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5725.026593750001,"end":5725.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5725.920968750001,"end":5736.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5725.93784375,"end":5728.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5734.9490937499995,"end":5761.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5758.304093750001,"end":5758.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5761.79721875,"end":5764.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5764.024718750001,"end":5764.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5764.9697187500005,"end":5765.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5765.03721875,"end":5765.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5765.96534375,"end":5766.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5766.184718750001,"end":5767.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5766.741593750001,"end":5773.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5771.9559687500005,"end":5781.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5774.436593750001,"end":5777.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5780.02221875,"end":5782.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5782.013468749999,"end":5783.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5782.04721875,"end":5783.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5783.987843750001,"end":5784.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5784.02159375,"end":5784.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5784.122843749999,"end":5811.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5811.25784375,"end":5818.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5818.159718750001,"end":5818.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5818.19346875,"end":5818.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5818.581593750001,"end":5885.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5874.319718750001,"end":5874.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5885.524718750001,"end":5885.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5886.233468750001,"end":5886.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5890.94159375,"end":5894.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5900.290343750001,"end":5905.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5906.17971875,"end":5906.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5906.196593750001,"end":5906.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5906.7197187500005,"end":5906.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5906.73659375,"end":5906.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5907.4959687499995,"end":6048.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6049.296593749999,"end":6107.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6107.81909375,"end":6142.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6128.895968750001,"end":6129.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6129.030968749999,"end":6129.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6129.35159375,"end":6129.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6142.024718750001,"end":6143.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6142.9697187500005,"end":6158.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6158.68034375,"end":6161.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6158.714093750001,"end":6159.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6159.6590937500005,"end":6159.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6160.57034375,"end":6178.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6178.305968750001,"end":6198.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6197.560343749999,"end":6202.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6201.76221875,"end":6204.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6203.02784375,"end":6205.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6205.37346875,"end":6205.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6205.87971875,"end":6216.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6217.50659375,"end":6217.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6218.92409375,"end":6220.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6220.341593749999,"end":6220.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6221.35409375,"end":6223.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6225.75846875,"end":6227.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6228.23909375,"end":6231.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6231.95159375,"end":6232.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6234.14534375,"end":6238.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6238.7353437500005,"end":6239.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6244.28721875,"end":6246.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6244.94534375,"end":6245.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6246.58221875,"end":6248.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6247.780343750001,"end":6248.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6248.995343750001,"end":6249.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6254.3447187500005,"end":6256.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6256.94346875,"end":6257.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6257.280968749999,"end":6258.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6259.08659375,"end":6259.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6259.440968750001,"end":6261.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6261.685343749999,"end":6263.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6265.077218750001,"end":6265.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6265.09409375,"end":6266.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6267.70971875,"end":6291.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6291.99284375,"end":6294.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6293.849093750001,"end":6382.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6382.32471875,"end":6439.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6385.4803437499995,"end":6385.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6385.581593750001,"end":6385.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6385.85159375,"end":6385.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6407.0634687500005,"end":6407.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6422.35221875,"end":6422.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6425.45721875,"end":6425.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6425.49096875,"end":6425.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6425.5584687499995,"end":6425.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6425.895968750001,"end":6425.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6433.6415937500005,"end":6435.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6439.159718750001,"end":6440.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6440.661593750001,"end":6554.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6455.30909375,"end":6455.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6555.25971875,"end":6586.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6585.685343749999,"end":6587.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6587.760968750001,"end":6629.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6597.919718749999,"end":6598.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6629.59409375,"end":6688.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6688.92659375,"end":6713.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6712.214093750001,"end":6712.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6713.64846875,"end":6717.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6716.60159375,"end":6717.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6717.42846875,"end":6717.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6718.6434687500005,"end":6719.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6719.72346875,"end":6729.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6729.25784375,"end":6730.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6730.962218750001,"end":6733.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6736.952843749999,"end":6737.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6737.64471875,"end":6786.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6785.02971875,"end":6797.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6794.54721875,"end":6796.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6796.639718750001,"end":6801.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6798.76596875,"end":6799.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6800.08221875,"end":6800.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6800.419718749999,"end":6808.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6807.794093750001,"end":6811.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6810.67971875,"end":6825.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6819.032843750001,"end":6821.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6824.669093750001,"end":6900.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6842.32034375,"end":6842.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6842.3709687499995,"end":6842.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6842.657843750001,"end":6842.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6842.77596875,"end":6842.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6848.7665937500005,"end":6848.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6848.78346875,"end":6849.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6849.28971875,"end":6849.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6849.34034375,"end":6849.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6899.59409375,"end":6902.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6902.1590937500005,"end":6915.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6907.964093750001,"end":6908.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6915.794093750001,"end":6942.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6917.86971875,"end":6917.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6917.903468750001,"end":6917.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6917.92034375,"end":6918.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6941.41034375,"end":6944.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6944.717843750001,"end":6947.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6947.282843750001,"end":6947.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6947.77221875,"end":6949.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6949.206593750001,"end":6951.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6951.079718750001,"end":6981.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6951.130343750001,"end":6951.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6981.4715937500005,"end":6992.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6992.27159375,"end":7004.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7004.06721875,"end":7012.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7011.81284375,"end":7015.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7015.18784375,"end":7029.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7029.885968750001,"end":7055.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7052.22846875,"end":7054.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7054.05096875,"end":7054.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7054.27034375,"end":7083.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7070.942843750001,"end":7071.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7084.071593750001,"end":7098.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7097.436593750001,"end":7103.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7103.03909375,"end":7104.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7104.72659375,"end":7112.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7107.05534375,"end":7107.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7111.071593750001,"end":7111.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7112.77596875,"end":7161.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7134.6122187500005,"end":7134.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7134.66284375,"end":7134.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7134.966593749999,"end":7135.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7160.4647187499995,"end":7199.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7198.214093750001,"end":7205.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7201.200968749999,"end":7201.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7201.4540937500005,"end":7201.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7201.487843750001,"end":7202.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7203.327218750001,"end":7216.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7212.28784375,"end":7295.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7216.962218750001,"end":7216.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7218.86909375,"end":7218.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7293.591593749999,"end":7312.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7312.120343750001,"end":7324.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7323.94971875,"end":7324.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7324.624718750001,"end":7336.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7326.29534375,"end":7326.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7337.6522187499995,"end":7344.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7344.33471875,"end":7392.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7392.86721875,"end":7412.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7412.93159375,"end":7414.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7414.88909375,"end":7431.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7421.2509687500005,"end":7423.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7431.038468750001,"end":7437.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7435.88159375,"end":7459.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7458.561593750001,"end":7484.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7460.519093750001,"end":7463.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7484.58284375,"end":7485.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7485.224093750001,"end":7486.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7488.177218750001,"end":7489.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7489.03784375,"end":7489.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7490.82659375,"end":7491.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7493.50971875,"end":7494.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7495.635968750001,"end":7495.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7509.06846875,"end":7509.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7510.587218750001,"end":7511.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7515.278468750001,"end":7545.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7529.08221875,"end":7529.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7537.452218750001,"end":7537.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7537.89096875,"end":7538.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7541.046593750001,"end":7543.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7543.18971875,"end":7543.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7543.257218750001,"end":7543.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7543.27409375,"end":7543.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7543.45971875,"end":7543.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7543.577843750001,"end":7543.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7545.029093749999,"end":7555.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7553.618468750001,"end":7553.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7554.782843750001,"end":7567.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7567.89471875,"end":7568.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7568.50221875,"end":7571.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7571.8603437500005,"end":7577.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7578.07034375,"end":7580.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7580.854718750001,"end":7581.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7581.512843750001,"end":7585.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7582.66034375,"end":7583.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7585.765343750001,"end":7587.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7587.11534375,"end":7589.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7590.11909375,"end":7590.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7591.874093750001,"end":7594.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7593.3759687500005,"end":7593.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7594.590968750001,"end":7595.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7595.92409375,"end":7604.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7604.564093750001,"end":7604.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7604.614718750001,"end":7604.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7604.96909375,"end":7606.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7606.50471875,"end":7610.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7607.83784375,"end":7608.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7609.305968750001,"end":7620.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7617.54096875,"end":7617.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7620.966593749999,"end":7636.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7622.50221875,"end":7622.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7633.13346875,"end":7633.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7634.60159375,"end":7645.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7642.212218750001,"end":7642.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7644.827843750001,"end":7645.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7645.9247187500005,"end":7645.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7645.958468750001,"end":7671.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7645.97534375,"end":7646.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7671.06846875,"end":7671.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7671.085343750001,"end":7671.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7671.557843750001,"end":7692.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7692.95534375,"end":7707.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7708.159718750001,"end":7722.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7722.874718750001,"end":7732.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7732.22346875,"end":7744.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7741.92659375,"end":7741.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7744.440968750001,"end":7747.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7746.21284375,"end":7751.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7750.2459687499995,"end":7754.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7754.515343750001,"end":7755.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7755.66284375,"end":7756.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7756.962218750001,"end":7762.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7761.33284375,"end":7763.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7763.64471875,"end":7765.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7765.028468750001,"end":7765.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7765.56846875,"end":7767.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7768.065968750001,"end":7771.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7770.9853437500005,"end":7772.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7772.436593750001,"end":7775.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7777.6678437499995,"end":7780.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7781.1103437500005,"end":7786.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7787.6747187500005,"end":7788.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7789.14284375,"end":7795.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7790.02034375,"end":7790.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7795.673468750001,"end":7814.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7814.708468750001,"end":7821.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7822.352843750001,"end":7828.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7828.630343750001,"end":7834.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7832.663468750001,"end":7832.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7832.69721875,"end":7833.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7835.279093749999,"end":7839.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7839.02534375,"end":7870.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7870.4803437499995,"end":7870.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7870.952843750001,"end":7871.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7871.17221875,"end":7871.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7871.189093750001,"end":7871.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7871.712218750001,"end":7871.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7871.96534375,"end":7873.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7873.028468750001,"end":7873.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7873.112843750001,"end":7878.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7874.22659375,"end":7877.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7878.24284375,"end":7889.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7879.154093749999,"end":7879.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7888.46909375,"end":7889.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7889.78534375,"end":7894.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7894.9490937499995,"end":7897.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7897.109093750001,"end":7897.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7897.868468750001,"end":7899.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7899.2353437500005,"end":7902.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7901.564093750001,"end":7901.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7902.745343750001,"end":7903.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7903.97721875,"end":7903.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7904.061593750001,"end":7909.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7906.71096875,"end":7907.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7907.08221875,"end":7907.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7909.022843750001,"end":7912.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7911.53721875,"end":7920.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7920.86909375,"end":7924.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7924.88534375,"end":7926.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7926.404093749999,"end":7926.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7927.028468750001,"end":7929.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7929.0028437500005,"end":7947.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7947.514718750001,"end":7953.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7953.28596875,"end":7953.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7953.319718750001,"end":7953.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7953.38721875,"end":7953.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7953.420968750001,"end":7953.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7953.48846875,"end":7953.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7953.70784375,"end":7953.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7953.842843750001,"end":7953.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7955.49659375,"end":7961.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7957.403468750001,"end":7957.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7961.79096875,"end":7969.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7963.815968750001,"end":7963.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7963.83284375,"end":7964.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7969.23284375,"end":7969.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7969.60409375,"end":7969.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7969.97534375,"end":7974.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7974.464093750001,"end":7974.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7975.08846875,"end":7978.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7975.257218750001,"end":7976.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7977.467843750001,"end":7980.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7980.85971875,"end":7995.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7982.68221875,"end":7983.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7989.972218750001,"end":7990.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7994.3934687500005,"end":8011.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8011.859093750001,"end":8012.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8012.41596875,"end":8018.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8019.25034375,"end":8021.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8022.30471875,"end":8026.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8026.9959687499995,"end":8040.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8030.97846875,"end":8031.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8041.204718750001,"end":8046.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8047.819718750001,"end":8050.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8052.34221875,"end":8052.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8052.359093750001,"end":8062.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8052.49409375,"end":8054.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8060.91471875,"end":8061.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8062.028468750001,"end":8062.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8062.484093750001,"end":8076.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8062.5009687500005,"end":8063.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8076.30471875,"end":8082.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8082.02534375,"end":8082.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8082.90284375,"end":8083.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8083.071593750001,"end":8083.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8083.1053437499995,"end":8086.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8086.32846875,"end":8091.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8086.66596875,"end":8086.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8087.07096875,"end":8087.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8091.222218750001,"end":8094.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8094.05721875,"end":8102.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8102.899718750001,"end":8108.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8108.434718750001,"end":8109.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8109.919718750001,"end":8112.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8113.395968750001,"end":8113.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8113.9697187500005,"end":8114.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8115.38721875,"end":8115.404093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8115.404093750001,"end":8123.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8123.36909375,"end":8123.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8123.655968750001,"end":8125.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8126.153468750001,"end":8129.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8130.01784375,"end":8136.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8131.114718750001,"end":8131.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8136.970343750001,"end":8141.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8141.49284375,"end":8141.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8141.83034375,"end":8141.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8142.20159375,"end":8143.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8145.39096875,"end":8147.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8147.34846875,"end":8147.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8147.989718750001,"end":8157.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8155.9715937500005,"end":8158.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8160.25784375,"end":8162.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8162.282843750001,"end":8163.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8163.042218750001,"end":8164.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8165.387843750001,"end":8166.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8166.231593750001,"end":8170.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8171.96909375,"end":8174.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8175.25971875,"end":8178.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8179.19159375,"end":8180.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8186.903468750001,"end":8194.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8199.57659375,"end":8202.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8206.039718750002,"end":8206.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8207.06909375,"end":8219.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8207.609093750001,"end":8207.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8219.539718750002,"end":8246.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8246.438468750002,"end":8264.477843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8264.54534375,"end":8276.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8276.72909375,"end":8280.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8281.15034375,"end":8296.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8297.55284375,"end":8305.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8305.63596875,"end":8311.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8311.238468750002,"end":8312.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8312.672843750002,"end":8319.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8319.97971875,"end":8321.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8321.76846875,"end":8335.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8335.25159375,"end":8338.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8338.609718750002,"end":8342.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8342.659718750001,"end":8350.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8350.472843750002,"end":8395.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8368.832843750002,"end":8370.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8371.465343750002,"end":8378.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8378.856593750003,"end":8379.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8392.64346875,"end":8393.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8395.309718750003,"end":8400.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8397.73971875,"end":8398.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8398.95471875,"end":8405.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8402.093468750001,"end":8403.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8405.56971875,"end":8424.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8424.570968750002,"end":8430.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8431.50659375,"end":8437.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8437.176593750002,"end":8440.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8441.294093750003,"end":8443.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8443.926593750002,"end":8448.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8448.28034375,"end":8449.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8449.91721875,"end":8450.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8450.406593750002,"end":8484.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8450.84534375,"end":8450.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8451.520343750002,"end":8451.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8483.262218750002,"end":8485.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8485.33784375,"end":8495.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8494.77096875,"end":8497.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8497.656593750002,"end":8498.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8498.01096875,"end":8498.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8498.68596875,"end":8498.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8498.770343750002,"end":8501.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8499.95159375,"end":8501.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8501.605343750001,"end":8501.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8501.723468750002,"end":8501.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8502.53346875,"end":8508.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8502.617843750002,"end":8502.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8503.259093750003,"end":8503.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8503.832843750002,"end":8503.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8508.16971875,"end":8508.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8508.60846875,"end":8522.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8522.56409375,"end":8549.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8548.399718750003,"end":8567.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8568.12659375,"end":8570.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8570.62409375,"end":8577.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8578.032218750002,"end":8578.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8578.909718750001,"end":8579.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8581.15409375,"end":8581.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8582.132843750001,"end":8582.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8583.26346875,"end":8584.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8584.59659375,"end":8584.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8585.22096875,"end":8585.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8585.69346875,"end":8595.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8595.81846875,"end":8602.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8603.00721875,"end":8603.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8603.749718750001,"end":8615.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8615.32596875,"end":8634.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8618.211593750002,"end":8619.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8634.917843750001,"end":8636.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8636.36909375,"end":8646.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8646.59534375,"end":8646.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8646.64596875,"end":8649.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8647.590968750003,"end":8654.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8651.03346875,"end":8665.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8664.78659375,"end":8676.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8677.08846875,"end":8685.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8686.555343750002,"end":8688.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8689.49159375,"end":8696.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8697.355343750001,"end":8751.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8750.44409375,"end":8780.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8779.38471875,"end":8789.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8790.488468750002,"end":8791.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8791.68659375,"end":8792.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8792.074718750002,"end":8792.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8793.27284375,"end":8794.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8794.504718750002,"end":8795.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8795.449718750002,"end":8803.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8802.97596875,"end":8816.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8805.86159375,"end":8808.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8812.02096875,"end":8812.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8814.906593750002,"end":8819.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8819.175968750002,"end":8820.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8820.37409375,"end":8820.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8820.930968750003,"end":8828.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8827.292843750001,"end":8838.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8838.278468750003,"end":8843.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8843.30721875,"end":8843.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8843.52659375,"end":8844.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8844.20159375,"end":8845.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8844.57284375,"end":8847.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8847.35721875,"end":8847.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8847.37409375,"end":8847.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8847.69471875,"end":8848.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8847.74534375,"end":8847.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8848.11659375,"end":8848.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8848.133468750002,"end":8848.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8848.94346875,"end":8848.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8848.99409375,"end":8849.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8849.21346875,"end":8849.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8849.770343750002,"end":8851.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8851.710968750001,"end":8854.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9167.745968750001,"end":9173.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9178.42784375,"end":9182.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9186.325343750003,"end":9186.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9186.98346875,"end":9188.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9188.28284375,"end":9188.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9188.29971875,"end":9201.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9200.550968750002,"end":9202.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9202.32284375,"end":9229.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9230.301593750002,"end":9248.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9247.68284375,"end":9291.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9260.254718750002,"end":9260.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9291.96284375,"end":9304.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9304.011593750001,"end":9307.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9307.032218750002,"end":9311.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9311.79096875,"end":9374.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9315.773468750001,"end":9317.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9322.641593750002,"end":9322.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9322.65846875,"end":9322.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9322.692218750002,"end":9322.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9322.962218750003,"end":9323.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9323.046593750001,"end":9323.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9325.425968750002,"end":9325.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9325.45971875,"end":9325.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9325.965968750003,"end":9326.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9326.03346875,"end":9326.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9326.691593750002,"end":9326.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9374.92034375,"end":9393.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9381.704093750002,"end":9382.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9392.53784375,"end":9434.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9400.300343750001,"end":9400.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9400.50284375,"end":9400.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9434.40471875,"end":9453.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9451.27971875,"end":9452.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9453.675968750002,"end":9537.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9538.30409375,"end":9545.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9545.88096875,"end":9567.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9566.434718750003,"end":9609.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9609.75284375,"end":9615.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9615.64221875,"end":9625.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9624.19784375,"end":9630.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9626.98221875,"end":9627.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9627.20159375,"end":9627.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9629.04096875,"end":9635.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9631.926593750002,"end":9637.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9637.394093750001,"end":9639.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9639.520343750002,"end":9639.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9639.53721875,"end":9650.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9650.72534375,"end":9708.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9709.16346875,"end":9732.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9729.902843750002,"end":9755.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9732.754718750002,"end":9733.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9734.52659375,"end":9738.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9745.12409375,"end":9745.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9745.32659375,"end":9745.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9755.856593750003,"end":9778.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9777.70971875,"end":9791.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9792.67784375,"end":9802.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9803.511593750001,"end":9840.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9841.36221875,"end":9867.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9867.332843750002,"end":9872.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9873.171593750001,"end":9873.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9873.79596875,"end":9910.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9909.18284375,"end":9930.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9929.770343750002,"end":9938.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9937.718468750001,"end":9940.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9940.047218750002,"end":9943.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9941.852843750003,"end":9943.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9946.34159375,"end":9946.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9946.965968750003,"end":9950.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9954.10409375,"end":9960.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9959.01471875,"end":9959.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9962.237843750001,"end":9963.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9963.452843750001,"end":10032.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10032.99471875,"end":10061.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10037.449718750002,"end":10037.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10037.753468750001,"end":10037.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10053.02534375,"end":10053.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10055.691593750002,"end":10056.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10061.51346875,"end":10091.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10067.36909375,"end":10067.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10067.875343750002,"end":10067.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10075.637843750003,"end":10075.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10091.14596875,"end":10105.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10098.874718750001,"end":10099.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10105.523468750001,"end":10137.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10132.101593750001,"end":10134.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10137.67034375,"end":10145.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10140.488468750002,"end":10140.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10144.605968750002,"end":10147.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10150.64721875,"end":10153.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10153.144718750002,"end":10153.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10153.988468750002,"end":10155.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10155.91221875,"end":10160.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10158.949718750002,"end":10159.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10160.14784375,"end":10162.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10162.527218750001,"end":10164.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10162.56096875,"end":10165.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10166.020343750002,"end":10166.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10166.83034375,"end":10169.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10168.484093750001,"end":10168.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10169.20971875,"end":10172.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10172.230343750001,"end":10174.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10173.78284375,"end":10175.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10174.829093750002,"end":10179.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10179.11534375,"end":10183.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10181.91659375,"end":10227.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10214.82284375,"end":10215.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10229.06534375,"end":10231.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10231.02284375,"end":10237.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10237.28346875,"end":10245.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10237.77284375,"end":10238.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10244.809718750003,"end":10276.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10276.66971875,"end":10276.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10276.68659375,"end":10276.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10276.72034375,"end":10277.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10277.327843750001,"end":10281.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10281.95159375,"end":10303.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10298.387843750003,"end":10298.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10303.78784375,"end":10314.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10315.718468750001,"end":10319.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10318.097843750002,"end":10340.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10340.64284375,"end":10340.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10341.23346875,"end":10370.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10359.559718750003,"end":10359.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10359.57659375,"end":10359.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10359.79596875,"end":10359.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10370.49471875,"end":10370.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10370.730968750002,"end":10370.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10370.81534375,"end":10372.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10372.60409375,"end":10382.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10381.480343750001,"end":10386.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10386.62721875,"end":10387.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10387.04909375,"end":10438.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10388.56784375,"end":10388.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10438.93971875,"end":10444.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10444.05284375,"end":10489.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10489.497218750003,"end":10518.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10512.852218750002,"end":10513.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10518.25221875,"end":10570.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10570.78409375,"end":10570.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10570.851593750001,"end":10574.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10575.67784375,"end":10578.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10578.63096875,"end":10583.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10583.17034375,"end":10584.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10584.722843750002,"end":10584.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10584.97596875,"end":10587.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10595.168468750002,"end":10600.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10600.56846875,"end":10600.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10602.72846875,"end":10603.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10603.977218750002,"end":10674.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10675.442843750003,"end":10689.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10689.516593750002,"end":10694.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10695.034718750001,"end":10695.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10696.941593750002,"end":10701.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10702.054718750001,"end":10715.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10714.94721875,"end":10716.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10716.73596875,"end":10720.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10720.988468750002,"end":10723.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10724.059718750003,"end":10726.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10726.70909375,"end":10733.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10734.35346875,"end":10734.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10734.927218750003,"end":10735.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10735.78784375,"end":10736.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10737.188468750002,"end":10742.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10742.925968750002,"end":10746.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10746.368468750003,"end":10804.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10806.055343750002,"end":10816.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10814.003468750001,"end":10819.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10819.774718750003,"end":10826.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10825.95096875,"end":10922.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10922.25659375,"end":10922.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10922.83034375,"end":10932.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10933.42784375,"end":10953.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10953.99846875,"end":11064.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11064.597218750001,"end":11095.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11087.665343750003,"end":11088.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11095.42784375,"end":11095.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11095.57971875,"end":11095.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11095.90034375,"end":11112.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11112.555968750003,"end":11122.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11119.10346875,"end":11119.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11122.394093750001,"end":11183.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11183.903468750003,"end":11215.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11214.278468750003,"end":11227.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11217.636593750001,"end":11218.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11227.49159375,"end":11229.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11228.84159375,"end":11249.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11249.614718750003,"end":11251.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11253.090968750003,"end":11256.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11262.422843750002,"end":11266.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11266.641593750002,"end":11268.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11270.97846875,"end":11273.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11274.184718750003,"end":11278.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11278.89284375,"end":11279.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11280.20909375,"end":11280.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11281.812218750001,"end":11283.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11283.921593750001,"end":11292.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11288.005343750003,"end":11288.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11292.07221875,"end":11292.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11292.696593750003,"end":11298.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11297.99534375,"end":11324.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11325.29909375,"end":11325.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11326.34534375,"end":11328.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11328.57284375,"end":11335.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11335.035968750002,"end":11335.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11335.407218750002,"end":11338.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11339.406593750002,"end":11344.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11344.570343750001,"end":11365.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11366.946593750003,"end":11380.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11381.47596875,"end":11381.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11382.10034375,"end":11382.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11382.960968750001,"end":11384.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11384.969093750002,"end":11414.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11414.922218750002,"end":11423.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11423.54534375,"end":11430.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11424.96284375,"end":11427.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11431.30784375,"end":11434.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11434.176593750002,"end":11437.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11435.374718750001,"end":11462.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11454.56159375,"end":11456.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11459.82659375,"end":11460.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11462.89784375,"end":11468.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11469.31034375,"end":11470.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11470.94721875,"end":11472.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11473.74846875,"end":11474.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11475.16596875,"end":11475.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11475.70596875,"end":11479.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11480.414093750001,"end":11484.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11484.902843750002,"end":11485.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11485.324718750002,"end":11496.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11489.712218750003,"end":11489.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11496.411593750003,"end":11505.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11499.769718750002,"end":11501.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11505.473468750002,"end":11510.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11506.570343750001,"end":11508.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11509.894718750002,"end":11516.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11516.77971875,"end":11539.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11526.70221875,"end":11527.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11540.82659375,"end":11541.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11541.636593750001,"end":11549.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11550.090968750003,"end":11551.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11552.082218750002,"end":11553.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11554.64721875,"end":11555.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11555.997218750003,"end":11557.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11558.07284375,"end":11576.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11576.95596875,"end":11577.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11577.546593750001,"end":11587.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11587.87409375,"end":11603.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11601.82971875,"end":11620.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11603.770343750002,"end":11604.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11621.168468750002,"end":11632.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11633.06534375,"end":11639.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11639.96721875,"end":11649.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11649.754718750002,"end":11650.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11650.969718750002,"end":11669.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11667.54096875,"end":11674.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11673.07596875,"end":11676.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11676.19784375,"end":11719.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11686.17096875,"end":11686.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11719.80284375,"end":11720.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11720.49471875,"end":11739.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11723.49846875,"end":11723.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11724.899093750002,"end":11725.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11729.87721875,"end":11730.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11730.34971875,"end":11730.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11735.42909375,"end":11735.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11739.462218750003,"end":11779.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11780.13096875,"end":11797.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11798.06909375,"end":11799.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11800.60034375,"end":11804.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11805.19034375,"end":11811.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11808.734093750001,"end":11868.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11855.477843750003,"end":11855.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11865.61971875,"end":11866.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11867.222843750002,"end":11867.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11868.117218750001,"end":11869.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11869.72034375,"end":11869.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11869.754093750002,"end":11874.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11878.57971875,"end":11881.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11881.22909375,"end":11882.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11882.039093750001,"end":11882.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11882.157218750002,"end":11882.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11882.17409375,"end":11882.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11885.75159375,"end":11885.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11885.76846875,"end":11886.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11886.03846875,"end":11886.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11886.44346875,"end":11921.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11921.83034375,"end":11953.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11952.42471875,"end":11956.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11954.179718750001,"end":11961.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11957.11596875,"end":11959.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11960.32221875,"end":11998.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11998.39221875,"end":12007.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12006.964718750001,"end":12024.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12024.700343750003,"end":12035.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12035.85471875,"end":12037.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12037.862843750001,"end":12042.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12047.22846875,"end":12047.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12047.262218750002,"end":12047.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12047.27909375,"end":12047.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12047.59971875,"end":12047.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12047.633468750002,"end":12068.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12068.879093750002,"end":12072.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12072.743468750003,"end":12072.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12072.777218750001,"end":12109.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12077.67096875,"end":12078.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12112.68659375,"end":12117.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12117.22596875,"end":12121.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12121.59659375,"end":12129.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12130.86096875,"end":12134.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12134.860343750002,"end":12193.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12136.26096875,"end":12136.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12138.67409375,"end":12139.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12193.905968750001,"end":12198.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12197.90534375,"end":12201.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12199.15409375,"end":12199.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12200.605343750001,"end":12202.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12201.33096875,"end":12201.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12202.613468750002,"end":12210.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12204.419093750003,"end":12204.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12210.645968750003,"end":12211.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12211.75971875,"end":12212.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12213.734093750001,"end":12214.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12214.493468750003,"end":12215.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12216.315968750001,"end":12217.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12217.969718750002,"end":12220.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12222.47534375,"end":12226.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12226.20471875,"end":12245.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12233.39346875,"end":12233.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12246.45471875,"end":12249.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12250.53846875,"end":12251.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12251.31471875,"end":12253.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12251.753468750001,"end":12254.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12254.453468750002,"end":12257.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12257.659718750001,"end":12260.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12261.844718750002,"end":12273.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12270.87284375,"end":12272.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12273.336593750002,"end":12275.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12274.29846875,"end":12280.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12280.187843750002,"end":12290.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12283.782218750002,"end":12284.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12289.55346875,"end":12291.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12292.472843750002,"end":12311.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12306.25971875,"end":12306.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12306.495968750001,"end":12306.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12306.52971875,"end":12306.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12309.75284375,"end":12310.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12311.69346875,"end":12312.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12312.80721875,"end":12325.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12323.35409375,"end":12323.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12323.72534375,"end":12323.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12323.759093750003,"end":12323.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12323.82659375,"end":12323.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12323.87721875,"end":12326.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12327.235343750002,"end":12328.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12329.09159375,"end":12342.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12341.49471875,"end":12344.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12343.55346875,"end":12343.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12344.312843750002,"end":12355.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12353.62784375,"end":12356.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12357.05346875,"end":12357.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12357.458468750003,"end":12359.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12359.04471875,"end":12359.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12359.51721875,"end":12360.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12360.00659375,"end":12360.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12360.36096875,"end":12361.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12363.128468750001,"end":12367.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12367.75221875,"end":12378.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12378.704093750002,"end":12389.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12389.21721875,"end":12404.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12395.427218750003,"end":12395.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12397.40159375,"end":12398.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12403.83096875,"end":12408.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12406.66596875,"end":12424.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12409.011593750001,"end":12409.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12425.19471875,"end":12428.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12427.13534375,"end":12433.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12432.51846875,"end":12432.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12433.024718750003,"end":12475.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12476.460968750001,"end":12515.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12511.24034375,"end":12512.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12515.03721875,"end":12521.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12515.644718750002,"end":12516.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12519.441593750002,"end":12535.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12522.597218750001,"end":12523.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12535.692218750002,"end":12535.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12535.793468750002,"end":12536.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12536.02971875,"end":12536.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12536.215343750002,"end":12536.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12540.14721875,"end":12544.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12553.07346875,"end":12555.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12555.942218750002,"end":12559.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12563.28284375,"end":12603.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12563.67096875,"end":12563.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12563.70471875,"end":12563.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12602.078468750002,"end":12602.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12602.26409375,"end":12602.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12603.20909375,"end":12603.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12603.715343750002,"end":12605.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12603.73221875,"end":12614.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12608.558468750001,"end":12611.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12614.093468750001,"end":12666.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12614.835968750001,"end":12615.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12666.08534375,"end":12711.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12666.102218750002,"end":12666.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12667.03034375,"end":12667.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12667.33409375,"end":12667.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12711.816593750002,"end":12726.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12726.649718750003,"end":12776.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12776.27909375,"end":12776.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12776.380343750003,"end":12801.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12802.519718750002,"end":12812.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12812.89784375,"end":12821.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12813.15096875,"end":12813.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12819.664718750002,"end":12820.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12822.06096875,"end":12894.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12894.57284375,"end":12911.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12911.76846875,"end":12932.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12911.937218750001,"end":12911.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12933.21659375,"end":12976.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12975.876593750003,"end":12977.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12977.83409375,"end":12996.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12997.071593750003,"end":12998.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12997.105343750001,"end":13007.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13004.47971875,"end":13007.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13007.820968750002,"end":13014.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13013.54159375,"end":13017.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13015.02659375,"end":13015.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13016.74784375,"end":13019.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13018.789718750002,"end":13021.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13021.860968750003,"end":13021.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13021.87784375,"end":13045.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13035.05721875,"end":13035.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13035.22596875,"end":13035.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13035.25971875,"end":13035.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13037.031593750002,"end":13037.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13037.41971875,"end":13037.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13045.87409375,"end":13050.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13046.110343750002,"end":13046.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13050.109718750002,"end":13103.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13103.519093750001,"end":13132.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13107.265343750001,"end":13107.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13133.03346875,"end":13148.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13150.110968750003,"end":13150.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13151.899718750003,"end":13173.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13174.42784375,"end":13183.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13183.23659375,"end":13183.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13183.962218750003,"end":13184.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13184.08034375,"end":13184.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13184.13096875,"end":13184.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13184.468468750001,"end":13191.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13193.26034375,"end":13199.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13198.289093750001,"end":13203.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13204.07721875,"end":13207.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13207.064093750003,"end":13240.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13207.300343750001,"end":13207.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13241.20221875,"end":13241.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13242.180968750003,"end":13244.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13244.712218750003,"end":13244.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13244.77971875,"end":13257.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13261.70534375,"end":13268.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13268.421593750001,"end":13270.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13271.121593750002,"end":13272.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13272.89346875,"end":13273.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13273.079093750002,"end":13345.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13345.219718750002,"end":13359.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13359.023468750001,"end":13364.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13364.71034375,"end":13364.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13364.81159375,"end":13364.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13364.845343750003,"end":13364.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13364.86221875,"end":13364.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13364.879093750002,"end":13364.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13364.946593750003,"end":13364.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13364.96346875,"end":13364.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13364.997218750003,"end":13370.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13371.426593750002,"end":13383.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13376.18534375,"end":13376.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13376.20221875,"end":13376.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13378.56471875,"end":13379.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13383.880343750003,"end":13388.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13389.43221875,"end":13413.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13413.833468750003,"end":13429.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13430.421593750001,"end":13445.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13445.457218750002,"end":13445.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13445.91284375,"end":13446.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13446.030968750001,"end":13452.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13451.835968750001,"end":13459.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13457.99534375,"end":13481.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13459.29471875,"end":13459.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13479.07221875,"end":13479.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13482.160343750002,"end":13482.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13482.734093750001,"end":13489.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13490.15909375,"end":13490.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13491.829718750003,"end":13497.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13497.415343750003,"end":13498.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13499.406593750002,"end":13501.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13500.199718750002,"end":13501.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13501.718468750001,"end":13502.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13502.039093750001,"end":13504.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13504.620968750001,"end":13519.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13506.730343750001,"end":13508.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13512.130343750003,"end":13512.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13520.11221875,"end":13588.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13588.70909375,"end":13590.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13590.24471875,"end":13597.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13598.294093750003,"end":13624.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13625.04096875,"end":13637.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13637.32596875,"end":13637.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13637.34284375,"end":13637.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13637.359718750002,"end":13637.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13638.000968750002,"end":13638.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13638.034718750001,"end":13646.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13646.337218750003,"end":13670.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13651.46721875,"end":13651.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13660.782218750002,"end":13661.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13670.40096875,"end":13670.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13670.45159375,"end":13674.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13670.839718750001,"end":13671.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13671.109718750002,"end":13671.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13673.13471875,"end":13673.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13673.40471875,"end":13673.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13673.45534375,"end":13674.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13675.21034375,"end":13676.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13677.25221875,"end":13678.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13678.78784375,"end":13679.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13680.829718750003,"end":13683.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13684.00221875,"end":13687.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13691.832218750002,"end":13697.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13697.23221875,"end":13697.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13700.10096875,"end":13700.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13702.56471875,"end":13703.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13703.965343750002,"end":13748.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13748.532218750002,"end":13757.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13757.93159375,"end":13763.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13764.15846875,"end":13770.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13770.402218750001,"end":13775.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13772.44409375,"end":13772.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13773.945968750002,"end":13774.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13774.671593750001,"end":13774.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13776.24096875,"end":13808.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13808.792843750001,"end":13813.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13813.872218750003,"end":13830.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13830.797843750002,"end":13844.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13844.618468750003,"end":13851.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13851.722843750002,"end":13874.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13875.06096875,"end":13876.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13877.187218750001,"end":13880.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13881.102218750002,"end":13897.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13898.770343750002,"end":13907.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13907.44409375,"end":13933.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13934.27534375,"end":13934.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13934.933468750001,"end":13968.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13968.329093750002,"end":14034.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14035.137218750002,"end":14036.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14038.039718750002,"end":14042.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14042.49471875,"end":14065.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14065.37721875,"end":14069.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14067.80721875,"end":14070.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14069.528468750003,"end":14109.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14110.180343750002,"end":14127.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14127.325343750003,"end":14142.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14142.141593750002,"end":14148.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14149.094093750002,"end":14158.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14159.03346875,"end":14192.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14193.542843750001,"end":14196.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14197.17096875,"end":14221.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14221.69034375,"end":14254.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14254.69784375,"end":14262.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14263.050968750002,"end":14263.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14264.384093750003,"end":14267.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14266.645343750002,"end":14271.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14271.04971875,"end":14283.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14273.867843750002,"end":14274.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14279.655968750001,"end":14280.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14283.689093750003,"end":14293.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14293.324718750002,"end":14296.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14294.57346875,"end":14299.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14299.399718750003,"end":14322.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14322.78846875,"end":14328.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14328.37409375,"end":14329.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14330.41596875,"end":14335.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14335.461593750002,"end":14339.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14339.76471875,"end":14347.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14347.56096875,"end":14348.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14349.062843750002,"end":14350.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14350.767218750003,"end":14350.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14350.78409375,"end":14361.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14362.44471875,"end":14428.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14429.72534375,"end":14460.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14460.235343750002,"end":14497.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14498.06909375,"end":14518.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14518.859093750001,"end":14534.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14534.35034375,"end":14640.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14641.45596875,"end":14667.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14671.13909375,"end":14672.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14672.18534375,"end":14673.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14674.767218750003,"end":14677.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14678.969093750002,"end":14679.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14680.909718750001,"end":14680.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14680.926593750002,"end":14680.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14680.94346875,"end":14680.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14680.96034375,"end":14680.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14680.99409375,"end":14681.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14681.027843750002,"end":14691.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14692.87409375,"end":14693.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14693.24534375,"end":14693.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14693.29596875,"end":14693.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14693.312843750002,"end":14693.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14693.81909375,"end":14694.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14695.472843750002,"end":14695.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14695.489718750003,"end":14696.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14697.362843750001,"end":14722.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14723.77221875,"end":14753.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14753.337218750003,"end":14755.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14756.813468750002,"end":14758.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14763.023468750001,"end":14763.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14763.47909375,"end":14784.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14782.328468750002,"end":14782.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14787.914093750001,"end":14790.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14790.968468750001,"end":14833.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14833.56096875,"end":14838.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14839.922843750002,"end":14840.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14841.37409375,"end":14842.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14843.449718750002,"end":14846.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14846.80784375,"end":14852.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14853.01784375,"end":14863.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14864.10471875,"end":14868.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14869.184093750002,"end":14874.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14874.28034375,"end":14881.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14881.688468750002,"end":14884.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14885.02971875,"end":14894.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14895.087218750003,"end":14897.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14898.05721875,"end":14898.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14900.554718750001,"end":14905.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14905.785968750002,"end":14908.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14907.55784375,"end":14908.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14908.75596875,"end":14913.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14914.122218750003,"end":14915.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14917.058468750001,"end":14917.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14918.020343750002,"end":14926.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14926.89659375,"end":14928.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14930.305343750002,"end":14931.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14932.988468750002,"end":14933.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14934.102218750002,"end":14936.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14936.71784375,"end":14941.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14941.88159375,"end":14941.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":14941.898468750001,"end":14941.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14941.915343750003,"end":14944.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14944.24409375,"end":14945.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14945.695343750001,"end":14948.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14949.829718750003,"end":14950.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14950.808468750001,"end":14966.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14966.839718750001,"end":14968.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14969.185343750003,"end":14975.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14976.27284375,"end":14978.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14978.196593750003,"end":14978.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14979.664718750002,"end":14981.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14983.664093750001,"end":14991.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14991.308468750001,"end":14992.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14995.67909375,"end":15000.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15000.84284375,"end":15005.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15005.48346875,"end":15014.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15014.81534375,"end":15018.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15018.44346875,"end":15019.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15020.114093750002,"end":15020.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15020.77221875,"end":15021.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15021.66659375,"end":15023.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15023.607218750003,"end":15023.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15023.62409375,"end":15024.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15025.007843750001,"end":15069.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15069.38909375,"end":15084.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15086.06159375,"end":15086.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15086.939093750003,"end":15120.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15121.364093750002,"end":15121.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15121.39784375,"end":15127.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15127.08471875,"end":15130.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15129.599093750003,"end":15131.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15132.585968750001,"end":15141.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15141.917843750001,"end":15159.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15159.957218750002,"end":15161.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15161.03721875,"end":15205.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15205.97534375,"end":15206.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15206.582843750002,"end":15240.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15241.26096875,"end":15263.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15246.27284375,"end":15246.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15257.258468750002,"end":15257.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15265.51034375,"end":15270.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15266.657843750003,"end":15266.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15266.759093750003,"end":15266.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15266.97846875,"end":15266.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15266.99534375,"end":15267.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15267.029093750003,"end":15268.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15268.56471875,"end":15268.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15269.52659375,"end":15269.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15269.543468750002,"end":15270.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15270.84284375,"end":15270.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15270.859718750002,"end":15271.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15270.94409375,"end":15272.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15275.48346875,"end":15275.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15276.68159375,"end":15282.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15278.90909375,"end":15278.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15278.942843750003,"end":15278.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15278.95971875,"end":15279.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15279.077843750001,"end":15279.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15279.11159375,"end":15279.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15284.106593750003,"end":15284.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15284.157218750002,"end":15284.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15284.190968750001,"end":15287.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15287.886593750001,"end":15299.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15297.35346875,"end":15297.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15299.699093750001,"end":15300.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15300.610343750002,"end":15300.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15300.74534375,"end":15301.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15301.16721875,"end":15304.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15302.06159375,"end":15302.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15304.52534375,"end":15304.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15304.84596875,"end":15306.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15306.887843750003,"end":15317.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15307.42784375,"end":15307.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15310.12784375,"end":15310.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15310.532843750003,"end":15310.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15311.376593750003,"end":15312.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15319.004093750002,"end":15321.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15326.024093750002,"end":15326.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15328.57221875,"end":15329.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15329.63534375,"end":15333.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15333.314093750003,"end":15342.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15343.050968750002,"end":15351.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15351.707843750002,"end":15353.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15353.648468750001,"end":15356.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15357.495968750001,"end":15357.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15359.79096875,"end":15359.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15359.80784375,"end":15360.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15360.80346875,"end":15366.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15366.794093750003,"end":15369.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15369.409718750001,"end":15371.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15372.750968750002,"end":15376.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15377.864093750002,"end":15384.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15388.00596875,"end":15389.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15390.53721875,"end":15392.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15395.211593750002,"end":15399.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15399.88596875,"end":15401.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15404.560343750003,"end":15407.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15408.37409375,"end":15412.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15413.470343750003,"end":15414.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15416.254718750002,"end":15417.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15418.07721875,"end":15419.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15420.18659375,"end":15420.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15420.473468750002,"end":15420.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15420.591593750003,"end":15420.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15420.675968750002,"end":15421.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15421.03034375,"end":15421.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15421.047218750002,"end":15421.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15421.28346875,"end":15421.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15421.60409375,"end":15421.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15421.65471875,"end":15421.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15421.840343750002,"end":15422.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15422.02596875,"end":15422.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15422.22846875,"end":15424.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15424.202843750001,"end":15425.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15425.77221875,"end":15425.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15425.805968750003,"end":15425.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15425.82284375,"end":15429.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15425.97471875,"end":15426.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15426.970343750003,"end":15428.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15428.03346875,"end":15428.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15430.159718750001,"end":15446.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15446.54534375,"end":15458.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15458.324093750001,"end":15458.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15458.374718750001,"end":15459.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15459.015968750002,"end":15463.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15465.411593750003,"end":15468.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15470.085968750001,"end":15470.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15471.11534375,"end":15471.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15473.005343750003,"end":15476.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15476.02596875,"end":15476.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15477.207218750002,"end":15480.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15481.18971875,"end":15484.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15484.68284375,"end":15486.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15486.134093750003,"end":15486.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15486.20159375,"end":15493.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15495.128468750001,"end":15506.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15519.344093750002,"end":15522.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15523.96784375,"end":15524.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15524.71034375,"end":15524.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15524.96346875,"end":15525.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15527.832218750002,"end":15530.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15530.565968750001,"end":15530.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15531.409718750001,"end":15533.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15533.92409375,"end":15540.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15540.640343750001,"end":15540.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15540.67409375,"end":15540.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15540.859718750002,"end":15542.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15543.27284375,"end":15543.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15544.285343750002,"end":15546.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15546.867218750001,"end":15550.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15550.360343750002,"end":15553.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15553.22909375,"end":15553.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15553.465343750002,"end":15556.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15553.482218750003,"end":15553.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15556.45221875,"end":15557.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15557.734718750002,"end":15559.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15560.586593750002,"end":15562.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15562.577843750001,"end":15564.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15564.88971875,"end":15567.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15568.31534375,"end":15572.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15573.141593750002,"end":15576.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15577.208468750003,"end":15583.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15583.722218750001,"end":15584.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15585.848468750002,"end":15588.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15588.649718750003,"end":15620.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15620.982218750003,"end":15621.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15621.47159375,"end":15629.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15630.044093750003,"end":15633.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15633.80721875,"end":15634.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15637.064093750003,"end":15637.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15639.426593750002,"end":15639.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15639.544718750003,"end":15640.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15641.384093750003,"end":15641.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15642.160343750002,"end":15643.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15643.93221875,"end":15645.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15646.024718750003,"end":15647.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15647.847218750001,"end":15648.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15649.26471875,"end":15649.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15650.142218750003,"end":15656.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15656.942843750003,"end":15657.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15658.360343750002,"end":15669.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15670.341593750003,"end":15672.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15673.716593750003,"end":15679.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15679.724093750003,"end":15683.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15683.36909375,"end":15689.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15689.950343750003,"end":15691.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15691.890968750002,"end":15692.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15693.527843750002,"end":15694.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15695.08034375,"end":15697.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15697.83096875,"end":15699.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15699.585968750001,"end":15700.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15701.08784375,"end":15703.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15703.500968750002,"end":15704.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15704.935343750003,"end":15705.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15705.62721875,"end":15710.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15710.183468750001,"end":15716.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15716.511593750001,"end":15718.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15719.363468750002,"end":15726.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15726.974093750003,"end":15727.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15727.09221875,"end":15732.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15734.06159375,"end":15736.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15738.17909375,"end":15738.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15739.49534375,"end":15739.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15740.895968750003,"end":15741.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15742.296593750001,"end":15742.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15744.034718750001,"end":15753.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15755.138468750003,"end":15758.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15759.222218750001,"end":15760.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15761.230343750001,"end":15764.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15765.398468750001,"end":15767.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15767.96346875,"end":15768.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15769.887218750002,"end":15781.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15780.957218750002,"end":15798.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15781.93596875,"end":15781.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15785.42909375,"end":15786.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15786.914093750001,"end":15787.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15793.49534375,"end":15794.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15798.034718750001,"end":15801.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15802.40534375,"end":15804.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15804.41346875,"end":15805.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15806.067218750002,"end":15808.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15809.239718750003,"end":15809.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15809.324093750001,"end":15815.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15815.770343750002,"end":15816.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15816.37784375,"end":15818.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15818.520968750003,"end":15819.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15819.17909375,"end":15819.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15819.22971875,"end":15819.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15819.735968750003,"end":15823.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15828.527843750002,"end":15834.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15837.10034375,"end":15837.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15837.67409375,"end":15837.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15837.89346875,"end":15889.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15891.25221875,"end":15894.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15894.711593750002,"end":15895.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15895.707218750002,"end":15900.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15901.343468750001,"end":15921.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15922.94346875,"end":15936.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15938.063468750002,"end":15938.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15939.599093750003,"end":15940.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15941.489093750002,"end":15944.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15944.99909375,"end":15945.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15946.51784375,"end":15978.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15979.12034375,"end":15989.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15989.802218750003,"end":16000.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16002.188468750002,"end":16003.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16004.550968750002,"end":16022.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16023.332843750002,"end":16030.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16031.129093750002,"end":16031.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16032.344093750002,"end":16038.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16038.38534375,"end":16047.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16048.493468750003,"end":16048.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16048.56096875,"end":16048.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16048.83096875,"end":16060.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16060.609718750002,"end":16076.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16078.51409375,"end":16114.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16115.68971875,"end":16130.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16130.219093750002,"end":16145.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16133.121593750002,"end":16133.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16133.138468750003,"end":16134.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16134.977843750003,"end":16135.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16135.332218750002,"end":16136.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16136.327843750001,"end":16136.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16136.95221875,"end":16137.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16137.30659375,"end":16137.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16137.52596875,"end":16137.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16137.74534375,"end":16137.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16145.457218750002,"end":16147.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16146.58784375,"end":16157.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16156.35846875,"end":16158.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16157.489093750002,"end":16177.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16170.70221875,"end":16210.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16182.177218750003,"end":16182.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16187.189093750003,"end":16187.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16203.97971875,"end":16204.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16204.013468750003,"end":16204.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16210.223468750002,"end":16212.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16211.050343750001,"end":16211.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16212.315968750001,"end":16216.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16220.567843750003,"end":16223.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16222.79534375,"end":16223.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16227.081593750001,"end":16268.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16227.11534375,"end":16227.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16227.97596875,"end":16228.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16232.49846875,"end":16232.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16232.684093750002,"end":16232.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16237.425968750002,"end":16237.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16269.04971875,"end":16270.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16271.496593750002,"end":16287.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16285.82346875,"end":16292.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16288.55721875,"end":16288.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16290.04221875,"end":16290.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16290.14346875,"end":16290.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16290.66659375,"end":16291.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16292.87721875,"end":16295.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16295.67846875,"end":16299.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16299.964718750001,"end":16310.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16309.954718750003,"end":16310.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16310.96721875,"end":16322.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16322.965343750002,"end":16326.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16325.277218750001,"end":16327.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16326.120968750001,"end":16326.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16326.171593750001,"end":16326.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16326.880343750003,"end":16326.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16326.930968750003,"end":16392.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16393.148468749998,"end":16421.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16420.70534375,"end":16435.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16434.82971875,"end":16474.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16436.82096875,"end":16437.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16437.090968750003,"end":16438.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16471.98846875,"end":16472.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16474.249718749998,"end":16476.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16474.890968749998,"end":16474.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16476.89909375,"end":16484.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16485.03284375,"end":16489.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16489.45409375,"end":16493.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16493.60534375,"end":16499.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16510.66596875,"end":16513.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16513.163468749997,"end":16515.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16517.888468750003,"end":16518.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16518.98534375,"end":16528.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16528.840343750002,"end":16536.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16538.30721875,"end":16554.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16548.482843750004,"end":16550.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16554.35534375,"end":16557.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16556.059718750003,"end":16557.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16558.067843750003,"end":16559.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16559.654093750003,"end":16566.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16566.89346875,"end":16570.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16570.960343749997,"end":16571.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16572.07409375,"end":16575.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16575.44909375,"end":16576.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16576.69784375,"end":16580.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16580.93346875,"end":16589.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16591.80096875,"end":16593.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16593.97784375,"end":16610.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16607.47784375,"end":16609.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16610.32971875,"end":16611.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16612.607843750004,"end":16615.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16613.451593750004,"end":16614.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16615.17284375,"end":16615.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16615.797218749998,"end":16615.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16615.91534375,"end":16616.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16616.084093750003,"end":16617.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16617.855968750002,"end":16618.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16618.598468750002,"end":16626.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16626.04034375,"end":16626.749093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16626.749093749997,"end":16627.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16627.22159375,"end":16637.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16627.23846875,"end":16629.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16634.207843750002,"end":16634.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16634.444093750004,"end":16635.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16637.00909375,"end":16656.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16655.200343750003,"end":16655.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16656.921593749998,"end":16656.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16656.93846875,"end":16657.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16657.022843749997,"end":16658.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16659.435968750004,"end":16662.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16662.591593750003,"end":16664.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16664.481593750003,"end":16671.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16671.80534375,"end":16675.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16675.585343749997,"end":16683.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16682.36909375,"end":16683.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16683.93846875,"end":16687.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16687.66784375,"end":16690.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16690.739093750002,"end":16705.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16704.779093750003,"end":16707.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16707.411593750003,"end":16707.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16707.428468750004,"end":16714.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16714.499093749997,"end":16733.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16717.654718750004,"end":16717.772843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16717.92471875,"end":16717.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16734.15846875,"end":16738.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16738.866593749997,"end":16741.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16740.250343749998,"end":16740.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16742.07284375,"end":16749.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16747.793468750002,"end":16763.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16750.122218750003,"end":16751.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16764.09471875,"end":16770.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16771.469093749998,"end":16775.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16776.295343750004,"end":16777.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16778.37096875,"end":16792.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16792.427843750003,"end":16794.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16794.28409375,"end":16795.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16796.83221875,"end":16804.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16807.092218750004,"end":16807.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16807.109093749998,"end":16808.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16808.037218750003,"end":16809.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16813.79159375,"end":16817.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16821.030968749998,"end":16859.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16859.185343750003,"end":17017.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17017.03409375,"end":17034.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17028.036593750003,"end":17029.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17029.58909375,"end":17029.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17029.605968750002,"end":17029.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17029.656593749998,"end":17029.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17030.39909375,"end":17030.601593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17030.601593749998,"end":17030.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17030.63534375,"end":17030.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17032.52534375,"end":17035.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17034.364718750003,"end":17073.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17042.46471875,"end":17042.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":17042.75159375,"end":17042.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17042.85284375,"end":17042.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":17042.88659375,"end":17042.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":17048.708468750003,"end":17049.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":17049.95721875,"end":17050.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":17058.749093749997,"end":17058.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17069.02596875,"end":17069.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17071.000343749998,"end":17071.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17072.51909375,"end":17080.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17073.801593750002,"end":17074.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17074.780343749997,"end":17074.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17079.13409375,"end":17080.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17081.37846875,"end":17084.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17085.209093750003,"end":17108.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":17109.272843749997,"end":17109.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17113.96409375,"end":17115.280343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17115.904718750004,"end":17116.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":17117.11971875,"end":17118.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17121.405968749998,"end":17175.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17176.51971875,"end":17182.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17182.679093749997,"end":17189.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17189.02409375,"end":17190.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17191.234718749998,"end":17205.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17204.36346875,"end":17216.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17206.169093750003,"end":17206.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17208.66659375,"end":17210.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17216.02409375,"end":17223.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17223.97221875,"end":17258.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17232.983468749997,"end":17233.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17241.285968750002,"end":17241.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17256.186593749997,"end":17256.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17259.156593749998,"end":17261.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17259.527843750002,"end":17259.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17261.029718750004,"end":17279.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17279.575343750003,"end":17281.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17280.857843750004,"end":17281.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17281.161593750003,"end":17281.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17281.95471875,"end":17292.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17283.65909375,"end":17285.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17286.578468749998,"end":17286.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17292.130343750003,"end":17297.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17297.648468749998,"end":17312.194718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17299.48784375,"end":17299.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17302.30596875,"end":17303.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17304.53346875,"end":17305.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17305.545968749997,"end":17305.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17306.187218749998,"end":17306.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17306.76096875,"end":17306.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17312.515343749998,"end":17313.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17314.287218750003,"end":17347.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17364.43971875,"end":17365.030343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17365.317218750002,"end":17366.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17366.684093750002,"end":17366.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17366.835968749998,"end":17366.85284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1707.526,"end":1722.177,"text":"好我們報告委員會我們初期的委員數人已經主法定的人數我們現在開會然後我們先確定每個人都平安然後呢我們先確定我們的逃生們來大家前方的方向可以那個我們這個較穩的群選樓應該都是非常的"},{"start":1725.6,"end":1726.702,"text":"首先進行報告事項,請議事人員宣讀上一次的會議記錄"},{"start":1743.362,"end":1760.142,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國113年3月27日上午9時至下午1時31分中華民國113年3月28日上午9時至11時46分地點本院群閑來議議會議事初期委員曾配議委員等事務委員"},{"start":1760.763,"end":1782.568,"text":"列席委員林月琴委員等二、四人列席人員3月27日文化部部長矢澤帥彤有關人員行政院主席總署公益算諾專門委員李毅榮3月28日河南安全委員會主任委員陳東陽帥彤有關人員主席林昭吉委員一進3月27日報告事項一、宣讀上次會議設立決定因素的確定二、文化部部長矢澤列席報告又概況並備質詢討論事項"},{"start":1784.948,"end":1809.137,"text":"處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算公用預算解讀案8案本人議程採綜合詢答由委員陳秀寶等22人提出質詢均經文化部部長史哲及相關人員即席答覆說明另有委員吳春城等3人提出書面質詢決議已報告及詢談完畢陸委員所提書面質詢或相關資料6記錄並看到公報3隊委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分"},{"start":1809.657,"end":1834.211,"text":"請相關機關競訴委書面答覆。4.113年度中央政府總醫醫生有關文化部主管醫生公務醫生解凍案8案審查完均均準與動之提報宣會。透過臨時提案2項3月28日報告事項。河南安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告又該況並備質詢。本議程由委員侯孟凱等17人提出質詢。均經河南安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及相關人員及其答覆說明。"},{"start":1834.851,"end":1848.542,"text":"內容委員吳川澄等二委員提出書面質詢．決定一報告及詢討完畢二委員首提書面質詢或相關資料又記錄並刊登公報三對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡數以書面答覆宣讀完畢"},{"start":1853.223,"end":1882.322,"text":"因為我們在場的委員未達決議人數的三人所以我們的議事錄暫時不確定那我們今天特別邀請到教育部次長林滕角林次長率體育署的列席就完善國家代表隊選手的權利義務還有健全我國運動產業的環境來進行專案報告並備質詢那我們首先介紹在場的委員我們其次再介紹與會的官員我們是有洪孟凱委員"},{"start":1886.305,"end":1907.878,"text":"謝謝那接下來是教育部的常務次長林騰角林次長還有我們體育部的我們的鄭士忠正署長還有兩位就是我們運動訓練中心的執行長還有運動科學中心的兩位執行長目前正卡在高鐵上好不好我們就就予以暫時就沒有出席等一下他們應該會趕上來"},{"start":1910.055,"end":1910.175,"text":"致電報告時間10分鐘"},{"start":1941.041,"end":1966.436,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生大家好近日應邀列席大院教育文化委員會第6次全體委員會議．針對《完善國家代表隊選手權利義務及健全我國運動產業環境》進行專案報告．在此進行檢要報告．並請各位委員予以指證與支持首先就《完善國家代表隊選手權利義務》報告如下"},{"start":1967.416,"end":1978.146,"text":"為了落實國家代表隊選訓賽制度之監督機制本部體育署依據《國民體育法》第21條第二項授權訂定國家代表隊教練與選手選拔培訓及參賽處理辦法及我國參加國際綜合性運動賽會國家代表隊培訓參賽實施計畫並督導各協會本於公平公正公開專業之原則建立國家代表隊選拔"},{"start":1993.119,"end":1997.743,"text":"選手選拔培訓及參賽機制各組訓單位提報培訓參賽實施計畫教練選手臨選辦法並報經本部體育署備查或辦理公告並據以辦理選拔入選名單應"},{"start":2008.473,"end":2023.703,"text":"先提經協會選訓委員會,審議符合領選辦法後,使得韓報國訓中心調訓教練選手。其次,針對培訓期間的生活及完善照顧部分,進駐國訓中心培訓期間參賽及訓練的相關費用,"},{"start":2029.426,"end":2029.486,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":2048.686,"end":2055.47,"text":"每個月加發3000至10000元等加擠,前述費用適時主動檢討並滾動調升。另外,在園區的環境優化部分來完善照顧選手實住行。"},{"start":2064.935,"end":2093.928,"text":"在訓練場館的優化部分提供國家代表隊優質的訓練環境在生活環境的優化方面109年落成啟用新建宿舍採取飯店室的管理提供教練選手優質居住生活空間與用餐品質同時在109年落成啟用之新餐廳在111年成為GHP及HACCP雙認證之公善場所"},{"start":2094.548,"end":2115.958,"text":"在每週自主快篩檢驗．每月委託第三方實驗室檢驗機構進行實材把關．針對蘇丹紅食安事件亦自主下架相關醬料及加工品．以確保食的安全．在資訊服務強化部分．於宿舍及訓練場館提供實機內部的光纖骨幹及5G無線網路等"},{"start":2120.39,"end":2120.55,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2143.815,"end":2168.164,"text":"解決教練選手在訓練上的問題,以提升選手的運動表現。另外,在參賽期間的後勤資源規劃部分,對於運動員的保險保障,體育署、輔導、協會在選手培訓及參賽期間,皆依規定投保公共意外責任險、健康保險、傷害保險及短期失能等保險項目,以保障選手的權利。"},{"start":2168.704,"end":2197.268,"text":"同時在參賽的後勤資源與準備方面以2024巴黎奧運為例為了提供最完整的後勤資源除過往賽時與醫護後勤資源的服務外亦規劃中繼站擴大提供後勤與運動科學資源包含設立賽中工作資源團租用飯店給入城教員的代表隊使用租用專業空間及擴大後勤與運科資源服務等"},{"start":2197.788,"end":2208.737,"text":"另於人力部分適當爭執編配運動心理諮商人員、營養師、禽獸等運客支援人力,全力協助選手參賽。另外,針對職業運動員、單人國家代表隊選手的權益保障部分,"},{"start":2214.741,"end":2226.575,"text":"在國家隊長期培訓及後勤支援、輔導主訓單位,擬定國家隊長期主訓計畫,包含勤收、防護、體能訓練、運科監控及邀請國際優秀教練來台指導,並將相關規劃細節及選手權利義務向"},{"start":2233.283,"end":2251.028,"text":"教練選手充分說明,另外,針對職業運動員的保險部分,因應職業運動員擔任國家代表隊時,面臨投保之短期失能保險給付與其得健康出賽獲取薪資的差額,"},{"start":2252.028,"end":2263.231,"text":"本部體育署克正原理補充商業保險不足的機制,針對有關初賽費的部分,有關國際總會給予的參賽費分潤以及舉辦賽事營餘分潤部分,未來應與賽前與選手充分溝通說明,請選手得以賽前掌握初賽費相關訊息。"},{"start":2277.472,"end":2303.741,"text":"那在運動員的契約的部分在徵詢選手擔任代表隊出賽之意見搜尋階段透過選手與協會共同簽署協議書的方式明確訂定權利義務使得選手可以在賽銜之西參與代表隊之各項權利義務同時為了釐清選手跟協會權利義務關係克正委託學者專家協助邀請利害關係人召開資訊座談會議並撰擬契約範本公餐"},{"start":2307.142,"end":2332.766,"text":"同時也在113年4月2日也召開了團體協約與運動員權利保障經驗分享會議邀請中華職棒分享職棒團體協約嚴定過程並邀請法律專家提供法律的見解就第二大部分就有關健全我國運動產業環境報告如下分成幾個部分"},{"start":2333.266,"end":2336.99,"text":"引進民間資源與政務攜手投入體育運動發展部份,為鼓勵民間支持運動、體育運動,促進營造運動產業,良好經營環境。運動產業發展條例第26條自101年3月施行,針對企業捐贈體育運動發展之四項,"},{"start":2356.309,"end":2381.447,"text":"以及擴大各類運動項目之優秀潛力選手依註相關的資源在106年11月29日也公布了運動產業發展條例第26條之一個人透過本部體育署專戶指定或未指定捐贈運動員可作為申報綜合所得稅之列舉扣除額項目又為了推動業餘運動"},{"start":2383.308,"end":2407.21,"text":"加速職業化協助重點運動賽事的舉辦在110年12月22日也公布增訂了運動產業發展條例第26條之二規定營利事業透過專戶的捐贈得於申報所得稅時最高按捐贈金額150%至其營利事業所得額中減除此外為了鼓勵民間贊助體育運動"},{"start":2410.033,"end":2428.45,"text":"獎勵長期奉獻與熱心推展體育、運動之法人、團體及自然本部自1998年起每一年辦理體育推手獎表揚的活動第二部分在運動賽事或活動黃牛票券的防治機制的部分為了維護民眾觀賞運動賽事或活動的權利確保"},{"start":2432.754,"end":2440.019,"text":"票券正常流通運動產業發展條例徵定第24條之一條文經大院在112年12月15日三讀通過總統在113年1月3日公布此外在113年2月29日也訂定發布運動賽事或活動票券違規案件檢舉處理及獎勵辦法及運動產業發展條例第24條之一第二項裁罰基準"},{"start":2463.215,"end":2476.474,"text":"以立地方主管機關具以執法．另為有效且快速受理檢舉案件．民眾得競向運動賽事或活動舉辦地．所轄地方主管機關進行檢舉．考量民眾檢舉時．"},{"start":2478.777,"end":2487.706,"text":"有判別運動賽事或活動舉辦地所轄地方主管機關不義之情形本部以建制檢指檢舉黃油專區及客戶專線並視檢舉運動賽事或活動之舉辦地分案予以"},{"start":2494.072,"end":2510.037,"text":"所轄的地方主管機關進行查處。至於在運動賽事的防堵機制部分,在去年10月份職籃選手發生疑似打假球的事件,本部體育署也召開了跨部會的會議,建立防堵機制平台並確立分工。"},{"start":2510.917,"end":2530.266,"text":"防堵措施包含成立全國跨轄區專案小組實施查緝職男不法事件專案行動建立異常賽事聯繫通報機制及嚴定高道德標準處罰的規範同時為了建立運動賽事防堵的機制後續的防堵面"},{"start":2530.686,"end":2545.382,"text":"也擴及到涵蓋業餘的企業賽事包含了對於賽事前、賽事中以及賽事後的相關的一個處置的相關的機制為了提升我國培訓量"},{"start":2545.942,"end":2571.318,"text":"我國體育署將協同國訓中心以及運科中心依法建立公平公正公開的營選機制並透過選手待遇的提升運動環境的改善及運動科學資源量量的強化完善對於選手培訓的保障參賽時透過保險及候群的支援讓選手得以無後顧之憂在場上拼搏對於職業運動員擔任國家代表隊選手之候群支援及保障將持續與輔導協會強化溝通管道利害關係人參與明確"},{"start":2575.481,"end":2588.367,"text":"明定權利義務等方式．辦理主性作業及保險措施．以確保選手的權利以上的報告．詳細內容再請各位委員參閱書面報告．並祝各位委員健康如意謝謝"},{"start":2599.039,"end":2606.286,"text":"好沒有沒有好謝謝那我們現在呢就是每位出席委員質詢的時間是8分鐘必要的時候延長2分鐘列席委員質詢的時間是4分鐘那發言登記時間截止的時間是上午10點30分"},{"start":2615.755,"end":2634.768,"text":"如果委員有臨時提案,請在上午10點30分前提出。必須委員會張雅玲委員質詢結束之後,我們就要立刻進行來處理。處理提案的時候,若提案委員還有連署的委員軍不在場,我們原力不予處理。那我們首先就請發言登記第一位的洪孟楷委員質詢。"},{"start":2644.249,"end":2648.192,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請次長跟署長好 次長跟署長請好 鳳爺好好 次長 署長之前有看到說藍鞋啊他們在內部開會的時候居然有講是說那國手打不好要懲處啊後來藍鞋是出來講是說這是個別代表意見啊並不是最後的一個結論啊但是馬上就讓國人炸鍋欸覺得是說哇我們現在國手是"},{"start":2671.226,"end":2697.021,"text":"大家藍協或是我們的相關單位是慣老闆嗎?就是說這個選手去打比賽你可能出場費都還不知道有沒有然後結果打不好居然還要懲處有沒有這樣的事情還是我們未來會不會有這樣這是我們這個上級機關的態度嗎?跟委員報告一下我想那個藍協個別的人員的這個相關意見那這個部分並沒有納入你認同嗎?"},{"start":2698.462,"end":2726.648,"text":"你認同這樣的態度嗎?應該是不認同這樣子的一個說法那我們應該是更和諧的方式來處理狗肝小肝的事情而且每一位選手我想只要能夠披上中華隊的戰袍不管是大小賽事、國內國外賽事都一定是拼盡全力、全力以赴拿到獎牌這個是至少無上光榮打不好有很多的因素但如果說打不好的話就是究責那下一次誰要願意披上這個戰袍"},{"start":2727.711,"end":2752.422,"text":"那再者好像是慣老闆就是你有收益的時候我才要付薪水這樣子我想是不對的所以次長未來我們應該不會有任何的這個協會或是說我們的中央機關會還有這樣的一個思維或想法吧應該是不會有這樣子的思維跟想法還要那麼不確定不能夠有這樣子的思維跟想法來那我再請教"},{"start":2753.602,"end":2778.016,"text":"你們今天討論裡面有講到是說出賽費的部分出賽費某種程度上本席的理解以及我們國民體育法第21條其實當初的立法精神它比較像是一個出賽的基本薪資的概念嘛它不是獎金喔獎金是另外的獎金出賽費是說我今天出場一場球賽可能五千塊一萬塊的一個車馬費補貼它是出賽費"},{"start":2781.701,"end":2800.799,"text":"那我們在第4頁你的出賽費還要講說未來應在賽前跟選手溝通說明讓選手得以賽前掌握出賽費的相關資訊那到底是要給選手還是不給選手跟委員報告一下依照國民體育法第21條對是的如果是特定體育團體舉辦或參與這個收益的這個商業性賽事時應該出乎選手的出賽費是"},{"start":2807.725,"end":2832.423,"text":"那就有一個盲點到底是有盈餘有獲利才要給予出賽費還是這個球賽只要賣票就要給出賽費當初的立法精神是什麼如果它是獲有門票、廣告、媒體收入、其他商業性質的收入而且盈餘的時候而且有盈餘嗎立法精神是而且有盈餘嗎這個是在我們的執法實行細則第7條是有這樣子的一個規定"},{"start":2835.687,"end":2847.364,"text":"我們當初的立法精神此法不能逾越母法國民體育法第21條寫的第4款寫得清清楚楚明明白白就是當初的立法精神我們講了"},{"start":2851.977,"end":2870.938,"text":"主管機關應該按照國際運動賽會制定國家代表隊培訓及參賽選手零用金制度特定體育團體舉辦或參與具收益之商業性賽會應支付選手出賽費報告委員有寫到盈餘兩個字嗎"},{"start":2872.479,"end":2899.276,"text":"報告委員我想這個回歸到我們當時委員們在立這個法的精神那我們簡單的分為幾個量態如果我們現在在輔導協會如果你今天是一個表演賽事純商業的賽事就算你不一定有盈餘我覺得應該也是要把出賽費列為成本之一但是如果它是一個正式錦標賽比方說亞錦賽那我們是希望協會有盈餘的時候要來給這樣的出賽費我想這樣子會比較"},{"start":2900.056,"end":2921.649,"text":"這變成是我們主管機關體育署反而是還讓選手跟這些我們的體育團體來去喬啊?初賽可以用喬的對不對?你還要讓他們直接去跟選手去喬說欸你們去喬只要你們喬得好的話就不要來煩我啊我主管機關沒有意見只要你們喬得好只要不要有聲音報告委員這邊我們是有在要求協會要那個如果是純商業賽是應該要給"},{"start":2924.451,"end":2949.919,"text":"但是回到母法精神嘛我們現在當初立法為什麼要立這一條法為什麼當初在立法院教育文化委員會的時候討論那麼久就是認為是說過去長期以來選手相對來講是弱勢而出賽費並不是獎金本席再強調一點沒錯不管是一場比賽三千五千一萬那叫車馬費那叫出賽費那叫最基本的一個出賽的補貼"},{"start":2951.559,"end":2952.42,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":2973.2,"end":2981.767,"text":"一般民間企業可以講是說等我今天公司有賺錢了我開一家餐廳餐廳裡面有收入了我再給廚師錢我再給服務生錢可以這樣嗎"},{"start":2983.208,"end":2985.629,"text":"本集看到你第4頁的第3點寫出賽費本集就很失望"},{"start":3005.285,"end":3023.398,"text":"你搞得好像是還要協會可以去跟選手溝通跟選手喬出賽費還可以用喬的喔?阿如果說這樣的話我們當初制定這條法令就不用啦我給你母法的精神讓你主管機關好做事結果你居然是說你選手可以協會給你跟選手喬有沒有檢討的空間阿?次長"},{"start":3030.164,"end":3058.345,"text":"市長這是你的慣老闆心態嗎這個部分基本上 包含剛剛提到的收入有盈餘當然這個盈餘的解釋是有這個空間如果是把那個出賽會的部分也列為他的支出的話那基本上這個當然有討論的空間我想委員的意見的部分我們是不是請體育署這邊我們會來進行進一步的研議進一步研議 什麼時候可以研議你其實之前已經研議過了研議出來的結果就是今天這樣啊你要再研議怎麼樣"},{"start":3061.043,"end":3078.96,"text":"我們今天很心平氣和的大家都是為了讓國內的體育運動發展的產業層面更好那我們現在在講這個最基本的你可以認同我剛剛講薪資跟獎金的概念嗎我認同認同非常好那這樣子是不是應該要給予選手最基本的保障不管說一場出賽費"},{"start":3080.942,"end":3082.782,"text":"報告委員我們會往這個方向來做研議"},{"start":3109.73,"end":3138.698,"text":"因為我們現在的癥結點是在於比方說像亞警賽、市警賽這樣子的一個正式的錦標賽而大部分其實九成都是沒有盈餘都會虧錢那這部分是靠政府在支持是,但是這些比賽都有收門票而且它有有形跟無形的收益有些時候它可能是贊助的一個眼球的焦點有些時候如果說它真的很多人在討論的時候國內觀眾的一個關注度其實這都是有形無形的"},{"start":3139.238,"end":3156.958,"text":"這部分是不是讓我們後面來跟委員來討論這塊就細一點等一下我直接會提一個臨時提案三個月內請要求體育署針對這個部分符合魔法精神要求國內外的賽事都應該要符合魔法精神費率怎麼樣你們來定力但是重點是出賽費的精神一定要保有"},{"start":3159.159,"end":3173.405,"text":"來再來喔其實本席今天準備很多的一個題目啦那其中很重要假球現在持棒35年今天我支持的兄弟像要在這個首戰主場首戰也要開打那直籃剛剛報告裡面有講到"},{"start":3175.666,"end":3192.384,"text":"有發生疑似假球案寫得也蠻含蓄的啦但重點在於是說假球是大家都沒有辦法接受的我先請教今天有看到說可能未來的台灣運財裡面會發行也要研議國內的直燃運動是不是有譜了"},{"start":3194.015,"end":3209.271,"text":"目前只有SBL已經確定是已經正在進行當中那我們在今年的第三屆剛簽約的時候我們有跟台灣運彩公司要求他們要去研議T聯盟跟P聯盟也要納進來那目前他們還在做計算當中是"},{"start":3209.972,"end":3236.946,"text":"因為運彩當然它的這個機制最主要是它需要有更多的數據來去算出賠率讓大家參與但是如果說能夠放入運彩的話其實會是三贏的局面第一這個聯盟的賽事也會更多人看第二也有更多的一個這個效益還有第三球迷去看球的時候我花一百塊兩百塊我去支持一下我自己的心目中的球隊也算是一種更投入的參與嘛是不是"},{"start":3237.566,"end":3250.802,"text":"那現在的重點就在於是說還沒有納入那我們也講如果說打假球的話就會有運彩發行條例21條來防範假球防治對不對可是現在運彩發行條例21條只有說投注標的運動競技賽事"},{"start":3257.108,"end":3273.114,"text":"對﹗"},{"start":3273.294,"end":3287.97,"text":"好 那我們現在應不應該要去檢討因為我們既然也希望能夠培養我們國內直燃賽事能夠嚇阻就要用比較高的一個刑責那目前的法規居然是沒有規範到而沒有規範到主要原因是因為他沒有納入我們的頭"},{"start":3289.093,"end":3316.981,"text":"投訴標的報告委員我想這部分沒有納入投訴標的賽事還屬於賭博罪跟背信詐欺但是他的罰金就比較低所以我們在今年年初第三屆開始我們要求臺灣運財要去研議要把這兩個聯盟納進來就是希望這兩個聯盟不要假求能夠間接的帶動我們的籃球超前部署本席這邊也會提案就針對我們這個部分把它給防止起來剛剛同仁已經回報說T1已經納入了現在剩下P聯盟"},{"start":3318.361,"end":3320.543,"text":"本席也提起就是我們這邊也會針對這個修法的部分"},{"start":3340.382,"end":3364.603,"text":"國內重大賽事或是說金主管機關認可的賽事應該也要一致因為它有可能是現在還沒有被投注標的但有可能是未來潛在的投注標的那我們當然都要健全這樣的一個產業防止假球的發生那最後今天本席有一個臨時提案也是針對現在我們的中華職棒在2020年有成立一個球員的防堵"},{"start":3366.832,"end":3394.648,"text":"就是希望球員他們自發性的他們也可以提撥一些基金跟聯盟跟這個球團來提供基金那未來這個球員他們如果說退休的時候他們有另外一筆的一個創業基金或是收入那目前這個是對於整個職業運動生涯的一個延續那我們也想是說既然中華職棒已經推廣了幾年的時間感覺起來成效也都還可以那是不是有考慮在直男運動這部分也可以來積極的來推動"},{"start":3395.902,"end":3419.407,"text":"幫委員這部分我們也是請藍鞋這邊要去做跟聯盟做討論的確已經提醒他們這一點好那我也希望啊體育署這邊能夠有更積極的角色我們今天也一個這個臨時提案我最重點在於說希望體育署以身為主管機關的部分瞭解一下說職業棒球他們現在的防堵球員防堵基金現在運行面臨到一個什麼樣的不足的地方"},{"start":3419.887,"end":3440.572,"text":"能夠做一個經濟那以及如果說直籃球員這邊也有考慮要成立的話能夠來協助他們找勞資雙方共同來討論延伤在3個月內能夠提出直籃運動當然他們是要自己成立但是我是說體育署這邊能夠有一個比較積極的角色去媒合去討論他們的一個雙方進行這樣可以嗎"},{"start":3442.381,"end":3444.062,"text":"所以就是因為比較難掌握所以我才麻煩主管機關要去掌握"},{"start":3459.955,"end":3460.195,"text":"蘇長可以同意嗎?"},{"start":3490.055,"end":3490.575,"text":"主席"},{"start":3511.94,"end":3512.14,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":3527.971,"end":3550.632,"text":"當初我們在國體法修法的母法上面我們是說不管是賺錢或是賠錢都要給出賽費但是我也不懂為什麼你可以看看當初我們的會議記錄當中而且不是只有本席是認為這是應該的其他的包括不同黨派的立委大家都認為這是一個基本的一個條件這是母法當初修法的一個非常基本的一個原則"},{"start":3551.573,"end":3577.878,"text":"那2018年你們提出了施行的細則當中呢你們就直接改成有盈餘的時候才來支付選手的初賽費我個人覺得這真的是有點行政霸凌我們的立法這樣子的一個問題喔好那我退一萬步來想好了我當初跟大家來問一下從2017年國體法修法到現在有多少比賽是有盈餘的有多少比賽是給初賽費的署長你知道嗎"},{"start":3581.079,"end":3601.874,"text":"目前應該就是從這邊我們給的資料在9場9場有盈餘有盈餘都給出賽費嗎報告委員我已經把答案告訴你了目前主要是在威廉瓊士盃這部分他們去年這部分他們沒有給所以我們已經要求他們要補給你看嘛我特別去問啊對啊藍鞋各位沒有給選手出賽費那其他8場有沒有給"},{"start":3602.827,"end":3623.554,"text":"目前我們這邊掌握到的就是除了正式錦標賽目前這個定義除了還有分靈賽事這件事情因為我們沒有職業的選手參與這件事情協會目前他們也是跟我們反映這部分他們的認知是原本認知是不應該學長你講話要負責你最好把它搞清楚所以我們現在就是在這一點我們就是回來研議"},{"start":3624.714,"end":3635.783,"text":"來我們看一下齁你看吧我幫你整理一下嘛網協九場賽事棒協兩場賽事都有給是這是我們去輔導要求他們給的對但是你要進一步再去問好不好他們進去問他們是說出賽費是體育署補助的方法補助的方法而且你補助給他們的協會協會在發錢給這些選手好不好而且他們還用單據來核銷這跟你當初的利益不一樣啊報委員那個出賽費他"},{"start":3653.257,"end":3658.222,"text":"你給協會協會再由選手來核單據給你這是你們當初要的方式嗎但是我們不能夠核銷他的出場費我知道但是我告訴你然後協會那你就要去督導協會啊你錢給協會這個一定要然後呢很多時候協會是日前"},{"start":3672.856,"end":3673.036,"text":"這部分藍鞋的確應該要給"},{"start":3693.05,"end":3718.37,"text":"所以我就告訴你我剛條列出來嘛所以說我們目前為止我就是要求你在三個月之內你必須要好好的去把協會代表協會之前沒有他們是需要有一套的程序所以署長是體育署出錢請你好好的規範每一個協會的每一個的步驟所以我要求你要尊重魔法提出這個迅速修改國體法的施法的細節而且重要的是你要盤點"},{"start":3719.411,"end":3720.391,"text":"我真的必須要說很遺憾因為我們過去也常常去看棒球比賽你看嘛"},{"start":3749.378,"end":3768.092,"text":"署長你應該很清楚嗎從1996年開始到2019的黑像事件這基本上面所牽涉的無法回到棒球圈的這個本土的球員將近100是幾乎是本土球員六分之一耶而且你有沒有看到當發生這件事情的時候呢整個人數下降是62.8而且你到2005的時候呢你跟以前比起來下降45%很多時候球場上只有1000個觀眾你看看現在"},{"start":3779.381,"end":3803.517,"text":"那個東西所以你就知道賭這件事情是非常的非常的嚴重的那我這邊要特別提出來的一個地方就是我們先來看一下很多的時候我們先來看看一個真的在當初也被影射要打假球可是他真的是竭身自愛不為利益所利誘但是他現在今年他要退役了他一個發出一個非常沉痛的呼籲請署長來聽聽看"},{"start":3806.015,"end":3834.043,"text":"大家好我是鍾世琦我還要很感謝柯正委員安排這次的議程然後針對運動賽事防堵的議題身為甲球公報經歷的最後一批球員我也將在今年退休那我們這些球員呢始終相信甲球公報它依然是存在著我也相信法律的認定跟具體的政策我相信我們可以跟政府一起來做得更多"},{"start":3836.383,"end":3859.501,"text":"好他當然還有講的非常的多那我只是告訴署長他其實在之前他就曾經來拜會過我我離開了立法院四年之後很多的事情他當初所力推希望能夠為這些未來的球員他甚至是一個要退場的老將署長我真的覺得你要好好地聽聽這些來自公會而且在第一線打球的選手他們的一個心聲你看"},{"start":3860.942,"end":3877.094,"text":"所以說我告訴你們,你們像體育署所編的預算你們只是在檢舉非法的賭盤,你們不是在做假球防制嘛你看看嘛,你們說的每一件事情補助什麼,減掉相關單位啊然後你工作經費200萬啊,民眾檢舉獎金40萬啊240萬,我請問兩百四十萬要幹什麼?你這個方法你就是在檢舉非法的賭盤但是我們今天跟你講的是假球的防制署長你可以分辨出兩個的差別嗎?"},{"start":3888.82,"end":3906.99,"text":"報告委員其實我們在240萬這部分防堵的預算我們主要主動在教育的部分以及減掉他們在跟我們的職業所以我就告訴你們你們在打假球你這個是在檢舉非法但是今天球員深切的期盼的是在假球的防制上面"},{"start":3908.291,"end":3927.184,"text":"所以他們也提出了一些信託的方式但是他們最希望是能夠讓我們的體育署我們的政府部門能夠帶頭來做起現在有沒有帶頭給他們一點示範讓他們這個工會的人員在推動這些事情的時候能夠告訴大家我們的政府在back up我們你們有沒有辦法做到這樣的一個態度"},{"start":3930.27,"end":3944.858,"text":"報告委員目前我們都是直接找球員公會來談這部分我們再跟他們再來請益一下他們有對我們還有更多的期待的話我們這邊會來配合他們都一直在期待欸署長他們從你上任到現在都一直在期待期待在你可不可以給我們一個很具體給我們一個具體不管在補助的要點或在獎勵的要點上面你們是不是可以先撥一筆錢進去然後帶頭告訴大家我們是一起來可以做幫助報告委員您能不能講得更明確一點撥一筆錢是給"},{"start":3956.604,"end":3957.245,"text":"這部份教育的訓練已經那個講座的部份"},{"start":3974.484,"end":3976.146,"text":"信託基金這部分我們會撥補他們"},{"start":3994.827,"end":4010.246,"text":"是嘛信託吸金嘛對不對你怎麼還問我說撲普哪裡組長你真的沒有進入狀況齁那我來問一個所以你承諾在三個月之內是起碼跟這些的公會的這些人能夠妥善的做好信託吸金的一些詳細可能未來執行的細節這是可以嗎"},{"start":4012.449,"end":4020.114,"text":"所以我們可以找他們來談沒有問題找他們來談然後徹底把它落實然後我希望在三個月之內給我們一個具體的結果我覺得這才是一個重點接下來我們問一個你比較熟的就是你們的足協好了好不好足協來說的話我說實在你以前當過他的一個秘書長我現在問足協給予經費是沒有問題可是當他們要五毛你給一塊的時候這其實就有很大的問題過去在邱議員的時代裡面呢通常你們補助通常都是一百萬左右可是你當上了這個之後呢你會發現"},{"start":4042.068,"end":4042.709,"text":"那你有沒有追究當初為什麼會這麼多的債務?"},{"start":4065.851,"end":4066.011,"text":"阿智要怎麼辦?"},{"start":4087.719,"end":4089.721,"text":"包委員 如果說一場賽事差不多100出頭萬這樣子的一個轉播目前的確是行情但是過去的確竹協在辦賽事的時候他的轉播費自籌款的比例真的比較高"},{"start":4113.641,"end":4116.423,"text":"這部分當然我們不是一定要給這麼多 而是說我們當時在上個會期我們是站在說我們協助他們希望他們的財務能夠盡快轉正的這樣理念才這樣做轉正 但是他們所用的錢我還是強調工作人員分你一個細項每個人去看你就會知道"},{"start":4130.23,"end":4131.832,"text":"巴黎奧運給我一分鐘的時間,你看你們外宿的品質,署長你們去了解為什麼每個都不一樣,我們的貴賓"},{"start":4152.213,"end":4158.174,"text":"那為什麼大會指定有高爾夫球代表團跟設計團?好了你們的後勤補給團我說也實在你們後勤補給團是最貴的好不好?一個晚上大概9021跟其他的選手比起來?"},{"start":4176.798,"end":4177.779,"text":"包委員這個高爾夫跟社級代表隊他是選手村"},{"start":4204.198,"end":4205.34,"text":"那你的後勤支援團的部分呢?"},{"start":4215.922,"end":4218.003,"text":"這是本期今天再一次的告訴大家巴黎奧運的這個部分裡面不要讓我們的選手有相對剝割感謝謝"},{"start":4248.507,"end":4274.464,"text":"好 我們謝謝柯正委員好 我們接下來我們請我們的羅廷偉羅委員好 我們有請次長跟署長好 請次長跟署長 謝謝"},{"start":4279.281,"end":4303.97,"text":"市長你好本席昨天成立了臺灣ACG及電子競技產業政策合作的一個促進會來了很多ACG跟電競界的朋友現場也有做一些交流我想跟你做一個探討那市長電競也有國家代表隊吧是目前包含亞運我們也有代表隊對杭州亞運嘛對不對你覺得這些電競選手快樂嗎電競選手的表現是不錯"},{"start":4305.413,"end":4309.637,"text":"市長,這些選手你有沒有調查過他們真正想要的是什麼?"},{"start":4319.661,"end":4342.929,"text":"我個人是沒有特別去做這樣子的調查跟了解我覺得是應該要更關心他們的一個感受了解他們到底未來需要什麼我覺得如果這樣子的話我覺得教育部是沒有在關心這些電競選手他們的一些想法那既然他們也都代表國家代表隊我們更有義務去關心他們而且是去健全這個整個體制"},{"start":4345.61,"end":4357.017,"text":"市長 榮譽 興趣 未來對電競選手來說你覺得這三個哪一個比較重要榮譽跟興趣當然都非常重要"},{"start":4363.829,"end":4380.837,"text":"市長我覺得我們都會有生涯規劃我們更希望在這個電競選手上面他的未來是應該我們要看重的昨天成立大會上面臨的困境我們都有請他們一一做一個討論第一兵役問題"},{"start":4382.037,"end":4382.338,"text":"是,是"},{"start":4391.36,"end":4416.19,"text":"18歲成年就可以出賽但是馬上就要面臨兵役的問題造成很多選手就會選擇讀大學緩針但要維持學籍又要影響到選手訓練的時間雖然現行的規定電競選手可以選擇所謂的替代役但實際上還是沒有任何幫助實際的效益我想次長這個兵役問題您怎麼協助"},{"start":4418.631,"end":4446.007,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個替代役的部分的話這個電競的替代役的部分是文化部在做一個主管來這個我跟您做一個特別報告這對補充役的部分的話如果是包含我們那個亞運的這個選手的部分他是補充役補充役有12天的一個補充役對補充役就當年他們稱之為網路搜尋吵警會條款那王建民成為第一個受賄者那我作為12天的補充役的部分我想"},{"start":4447.288,"end":4464.407,"text":"補充力的規定有它的一個規範那有些電競選手我們要知道他是18歲一滿以後可能就要去做相關的一個訓練他不一定是已經得過獎或者是輝煌的成績那相關的規定到底能不能去真正幫助到他"},{"start":4464.787,"end":4464.967,"text":"主席"},{"start":4484.79,"end":4484.81,"text":"執業選手"},{"start":4502.153,"end":4531.139,"text":"他們的兵役問題我們要來協助因為他們對於我們國家來說有可能是讓我們能夠在國際上被看到的一環很重要的一環我們應該去關注第二體育署一年只補助電競兩百多萬三百多萬內左右這經費不到體育署的預算的千分之一這上次我就已經有稍微提過了整個花費當中都是國高中的校園聯賽那校園聯賽裡面能成為電競選手可以代表出國比賽的畢竟是少數"},{"start":4532.539,"end":4532.88,"text":"經費的問題要怎麼協助?"},{"start":4538.772,"end":4554.803,"text":"發委員我想部分我們過去的確都是爭奪著重在亞運的這些國家隊的選手那未來呢因為我們今年已經成立了行政法人那這部分我們也希望透過行政法人來跟電競的產業這邊有更多的結合那這部分我們後續我們會再邀請這些產業界的人來跟我們來談看怎麼樣來協助這些的產業跟他們的選手相關的一個權益的事業"},{"start":4564.17,"end":4592.385,"text":"那署長我真的要麻煩你如果您跟邀請產業界來一起做一個討論的時候是不是我們能夠參與我們來協助當然我想這是很重要的一回願意先溝通事情就先解決一半再來我還是在這強調我不是說一定要花費這些錢全部補助某個協會我希望是真正用在這些選手身上讓他們有機會不會孤單讓他們知道政府是他們的靠山每年我們昨天你也有聽到啦這些戰隊每年都在比誰"},{"start":4594.244,"end":4594.784,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4612.415,"end":4613.455,"text":"這個部分我們應該來做一個探討這個部分體育署有辦法嗎?"},{"start":4640.367,"end":4643.028,"text":"政府有關注電競賽事都是主流遊戲就像冷門遊戲怎麼辦我們這昨天有提到就像我們可能關注棒球"},{"start":4667.574,"end":4668.434,"text":"請問這一部分執行長有沒有在?包括他執行長卡在高鐵上卡在高鐵上?"},{"start":4692.759,"end":4720.824,"text":"好 我想這個部分喔 電子競競場館我們在會後再繼續做一個探討我個人要推薦我們台中舊的縣市議會它就像是立法院的議場一樣它是沒有在使用但是縣市議會的議場我們可以了解它大概的一個平均的場域分佈我們大概知道一下想像一下這個部分是不是能夠作為變更電競場館這是我選前所開出的承諾我希望體育署署長是不是有機會跟我到台中看一下場域"},{"start":4721.244,"end":4722.765,"text":"蘇長,我不喜歡在這個場域去稱讚別人,因為必須去質詢,但是我只能說你速度很快。"},{"start":4740.017,"end":4755.426,"text":"那給予你的一個建議你有聽在腦海中去做一個執行我先謝謝你 也代表這些選手感謝你我們有把它當一回事但是 署長 劉君妹劉君妹有聽過嗎這是賽車賽車的選手他是在教育部認可的體育選手編號67號他要出國比賽了沒有經費國家認可的體育選手要出國比賽"},{"start":4763.911,"end":4787.092,"text":"是國家認可而且有編號的喔現在卻卡在經費體育署可以給什麼協助我們問過了很多我必須先講劉君梅2019年花了自己的嫁妝自掏腰包參加比賽2023年賣房子參加比賽次長這個我現在講給你聽去年連房子都賣了現在今年他要為了比賽他要賣什麼賣肝賣血嗎"},{"start":4789.494,"end":4811.974,"text":"我們到底教育部體育署能夠幫助這些選手什麼東西我們應該要好好的盤點每一次我問體育署給我的回應是畢竟他現在的這個不是所謂的亞奧運比賽我們能給予的直接補助很少我們只能夠說用產業條例來幫助他告訴他說你可以用這個企業募款我想要建議的是"},{"start":4812.634,"end":4833.126,"text":"教育部體育署是不是能夠協助不管是受政也好不管是協助企業媒合好我們要帶頭做出第一步教育部可以說沒錢教育部可以說沒辦法補助但是教育部有沒有真正去執行協助這些選手帶他們去找補助協助企業媒合這個部分體育署能不能給我一個承諾"},{"start":4833.946,"end":4854.445,"text":"報告委員：感謝委員給我們這樣的一個idea其實我們就針對臺灣之光也不限於賽車那我們現在已經我整天已經請同仁去研議針對所有臺灣之光非奧爾運項目的選手我們是不是也能夠創造一個平台像記者會啦之類的然後也希望能夠協助他們來做一個曝光跟招商由政府來背書讓企業能夠來協助他們"},{"start":4857.408,"end":4876.318,"text":"組長辦這個記者會或者是授政啊我想給他們一個機會一個舞台他這不用花多少錢我自己曾經為了協助朱興算的孩子出日本要去做比賽我們在台中市政府辦了一個禮堂做一個簡易的授政授政國旗找記者告訴大家我們的孩子"},{"start":4878.019,"end":4897.374,"text":"為了我們爭光這一場花下去是幾千塊你知道嗎但是他的意義對孩子對這些選手來說甚至是讓我們的國人知道我們的孩子要為我們爭光我們的選手要為國爭光有企業就會看到新聞有企業就會願意說我要來站出來投資這些選手"},{"start":4898.795,"end":4926.053,"text":"我想我們應該要來架設這樣子的舞台讓我們的選手被看到這一點我希望您剛剛有承諾我們一起來為劉居美以及其他的選手一起來努力可以嗎可以最後我要跟次長再特別報告次長您知道我有特別為了我們教育部開一個記者會告訴說我們行政院應該好好想想台電應該好好想想教育用電應該要動漲您知道這件事嗎知道最後教育用電是不是動漲了"},{"start":4927.271,"end":4949.208,"text":"是的我昨天特別還關心到底這筆錢是誰出的是你自己另外在編列預算來做一個撥補來彌補這些支出損失還是所謂的台電直接動漲最後我了解到以後是台電直接動漲我們所謂的幼稚園國小國中到高中大學對吧"},{"start":4950.915,"end":4962.886,"text":"連私立幼兒園都有對不對是您有掌握嗎有但這一點我還是要繼續講我們的教育應該不局限於在我們的這些場域私立幼兒園都可以做這個動長店價補習班"},{"start":4966.169,"end":4994.769,"text":"是不是應該做一個考量我們的補習班在整個教育部不管是現行的課綱有許多不足的地方都是在做節償補短甚至是幫忙亡羊補牢的一個區塊我要幫所謂的補教業講話我要幫更多這些教育場館教育用的一些我們孩子會用到的場域來講話我希望教育部能夠協助動長的部分持續的擴大讓這些教育場域都可以用到這部分"},{"start":4994.949,"end":5017.42,"text":"麻煩您可以幫我們做協助溝通嗎我想我們這個委員的這個意見我們會反映到行政院請行政院把補習班列進做通盤的考量我想以上就是我們這些不管是關心亞運或非亞奧運的一些選手還有剛剛說的打假球的事情我想我們委員會都非常關心我們希望要真正硬起來來做我們也希望署長加油謝謝"},{"start":5022.858,"end":5024.599,"text":"主席有請教育部林次長．體育署政署長好各位好"},{"start":5053.946,"end":5076.42,"text":"謝謝 次長過去我是一名老師我相信全台灣的師生都是對教育部是非常敬重敬仰的但是這是昨天的頭版教育部公文系統竟然可以登上頭版想請教一下次長驚不驚喜意不意外"},{"start":5078.004,"end":5080.285,"text":"教育部的電子公文系統大當機從上週四開始陸續有大學反映"},{"start":5093.616,"end":5108.437,"text":"最基本的工作收發公文沒有辦法做加上清明連假要將至非常多人擔心結果當然還非常感謝四天之後暫時搶通了所有教職人員像在搶演唱會票一樣"},{"start":5110.96,"end":5137.278,"text":"衝進去瘋狂的收發文大家都非常擔心不知道系統又何時再當機這一次的大當機事件光是原因我在這裡要跟次長分享我們竟然聽到三個版本系統廠商說是台電跳電媒體報導說是機房火災教育部昨天回覆是系統升級這已經不只是羅生門了這是什麼山體是不是"},{"start":5138.178,"end":5152.506,"text":"這一個事件竟然有三種不同可能的原因現在到底是什麼樣的狀況想請教一下次長就您的了解教育部電子公文系統大當機的原因究竟是如何教育部是不是已經盤點出有多少的學校受到影響就這兩個問題麻煩直接回答謝謝"},{"start":5155.267,"end":5179.282,"text":"各位委員報告這件事情我們大概了解事發的原因主要是在3月27號科技大樓當時候發生電力中斷負電之後我們系統做一個重啟這個共用的收花平台的部分有異常的狀況我們也逐一的去做一些盤點組織跟做一些的比對好我先停在這邊我想要請次長您先給我保證沒有火災"},{"start":5182.532,"end":5185.695,"text":"二月二十二號教育部機房發生火災,火災的原因那個地方是什麼地方?次長知道嗎?"},{"start":5205.732,"end":5221.983,"text":"強壁上的某個東西燒起來啦我給你暗示啦是我們科技大樓機房的電力室變電盤嘛又是電那昨天剛剛次長講說這個公文系統是不是又是電我們今天還發生很不幸的地震的事情"},{"start":5223.064,"end":5250.715,"text":"我就在這裡插進來我就脫稿演出請問現在有沒有開始在盤查電力有沒有什麼問題有沒有風險有沒有現在開始在盤查有跟委員報告目前我們整個科技大樓的基法目前是ok的right this moment不是現在ok所有的電力系統但是花蓮區網那邊因為花蓮區網目前中斷所以有局部的學術網路是中斷的在台北區網這邊都是ok的相關報告有沒有發在你們的公開的頻道"},{"start":5252.136,"end":5268.561,"text":"官網上是不是能夠早一點讓民眾知道會不會又有系統受到影響我想接下來的資訊系統現狀以及接下來的狀況我們一定會緊盯那我想這個之前的這個火災真的是讓大家非常的訝異今天這個狀況也一定要趕快來盤查我們這個問題每一次發生我們不斷的問"},{"start":5274.222,"end":5291.052,"text":"結果呢 教育部竟然變成教育部這個遮蓋東西的部我相信這都不是我們想要看到的我希望要求教育部在一個月內針對電子公文系統大蕩機的事件甚至合併啦就是說這個所謂系統機房電力的問題是不是可以一併的做一個完整的檢討報告"},{"start":5293.134,"end":5307.507,"text":"這個部分我們來做一個檢討報告提供給委員做一個參考謝謝這真的是為了民眾問的也是為了全台師生問的此次這個教育部系統當機的事件有非常非常多的資訊都正在發出尤其下週一4月8號"},{"start":5309.289,"end":5336.587,"text":"要進行網球及羽球項目這個全大運賽事的抽籤雖然昨天緊急通知信件已經寄出去了但時間真的非常短請問一下次長目前教育部對於主辦全大運的臺灣體育運動的大學有沒有提供任何因為這一次的事件而發生的一些可能的延宕或者是delay或者是發生這個miss有沒有什麼協助的措施如果他們沒有抽到抽籤的通知影響了參賽的權益有沒有研議補償的機制"},{"start":5338.632,"end":5339.192,"text":"您最擅長的運動項目是什麼?"},{"start":5368.747,"end":5375.615,"text":"我大概是田徑跟游泳那我相信你可能還有一個擅長的運動你不太了解其實是踢皮球"},{"start":5378.775,"end":5399.952,"text":"您的球友,經濟部王美花部長,數位部唐鳳部長和文化部矢澤部長,我們的國家的電競產業,就是這顆皮球,被你們踢來踢去。我在這邊要給你們看一下手上這小小本的資料,最新的2022遊戲電競產業調查報告,請問次長知道這是哪個單位做的嗎?非常精美喔!"},{"start":5406.387,"end":5409.071,"text":"這是文化部底下的文策院所做的"},{"start":5410.394,"end":5431.573,"text":"眾所皆知依據運動產業條例電競產業的主管機關就是教育部體育署為什麼產業調查是由文化部進行次長還不知道我們進一步詢問了文化部得到的答覆是因為遊戲產業是文創產業之一文政院在辦理文化相關的內容所以考量等等等等才將電競納入調查範圍白話翻譯就是"},{"start":5434.736,"end":5458.046,"text":"因為遊戲產業屬於文創業：文化部調查遊戲產業的時候順便幫教育部體育署調查了相關發展情形我們真的是不禁懷疑教育部體育署作為電競產業主管機關到底有沒有自行瞭解過我們的電競產業的現況市長有沒有看過這本調查報告在這本調查報告裡面反正剛剛看起來是沒看過2021年我國電競產業的整體營收是多少給你一個機會"},{"start":5462.808,"end":5467.413,"text":"是 跟委員報告一下那個 你可以猜嗎幾億啦幾億12345678910你可以猜一個300億"},{"start":5473.683,"end":5482.589,"text":"很好 我也很希望是300億全球可能是300億台灣的電競產業電競產業就是比賽的部分整體已經說5億文化部幫你統計的電競產業2022年的成長率高達147%如果真的是300億我們還用這種消極的態度來處理那還得了但未來一定是300億所以我們才要現在處理所以我想這個真的是非常非常重要的一個議題"},{"start":5505.465,"end":5519.238,"text":"體育署的組織法第二條明定體育署的業務職長包含運動產業發展之規劃執行督導及獎勵連產業的年營收跟發展概況都沒有掌握基本上就是瞎子摸象啦要怎麼來規劃產業的發展"},{"start":5521.34,"end":5537.935,"text":"市長教育部作為體育署的上級機關負責督導體育署的業務辦理情況結果這些調查報告我們剛剛講什麼147.8%還經濟部幫你們算的你認為這樣的做法是不是太過消極甚至根本不負責任署長就在後面您可以指導他"},{"start":5539.775,"end":5541.516,"text":"上一次羅廷偉有委員非常關注他就質詢"},{"start":5556.52,"end":5573.435,"text":"結果我們相關的這個官員竟然理直氣壯說電競產業發展屬於經濟部數位部我們特地查了所有的法規也聽您們向經濟部數位部文化部多方多字的確認三個部會都回覆依據運動產業發展條例電競產業屬於運動產業主管機關就是教育部體育署"},{"start":5581.302,"end":5594.918,"text":"這個雖然是由教育部經濟部電競產業而且依據法令裡面你們就在裡面啊你們根本就不是單獨經濟部負責啊那你們沒有要推卸責任吧是不是要來負責一下"},{"start":5595.979,"end":5597.98,"text":"但是你們也是主管機關之一我在這邊要來接力一下我來問一下署長"},{"start":5626.52,"end":5635.009,"text":"電子競技除了是運動產業發展條例所指稱的運動產業以外,它是否也是國民體育法當中所指稱的運動或體育活動?是或不是?"},{"start":5646.401,"end":5663.92,"text":"回答得非常好,但是依據國民體育法第5條及第44條政府應該保障人民平等使用運動設施及參與體育活動之權利各級政府為推行國民體育應普設公共運動設施並提供適齡適性的器材我這邊要接力羅委員,場館的問題"},{"start":5667.604,"end":5674.428,"text":"這個產業已經真的非常大了2022年全球電子競技營收13億美元確實就是300億全球電競人數高達5億2025年會到18億美元全球觀眾會超過6億11個人就有1個人看這個不只他們沒有拿到應有的補助他們還沒有足夠的場館來使用我們可以看到真的是有非常多沒有場館用等到他們贏了以後又來蹭熱度"},{"start":5696.542,"end":5698.903,"text":"這部分我們可能真的需要回去研究,因為牽涉的那個"},{"start":5722.133,"end":5724.514,"text":"回到這個場館的部分因為我們有這個辦公室同仁在學校很可憐說這個學生真的是因應期盼希望能夠早一點參與這個電子競技"},{"start":5747.443,"end":5752.264,"text":"之前我們討論過啦2026年日本亞運把電競項目列入進去了數位時代報導2028年奧運極可能會納入電競的項目而且是電子競技喔身體不用動的喔動腦或動手還沒確定我知道他應該是傳帶四方面的跟亞運的不太一樣所以您是亞奧運的主委是不是主席嗎"},{"start":5767.768,"end":5769.169,"text":"我想這個補助很重要不要只是曝光同時也有非常多人真的非常關心我們應該要有場館讓學生可以練習"},{"start":5795.33,"end":5808.973,"text":"在小小黑黑的宿舍裡面自己打電競自己辦比賽這絕對不是符合我們的法規我們應該要平等相待這既然是一個運動游泳都可以有游泳池籃球可以有籃球場網球羽球可以有羽球館為什麼電競不能有電競相關的場館委員這邊我們認同您的想法這邊我們也會認同羅廷偉的委員的想法我們會來支持來推動那我們一起來努力我想最後提醒次長"},{"start":5821.596,"end":5827.581,"text":"目前我們電競產業的這應該就是我們要來複習一下電競產業的處境真的是我們都不想要像皮球一樣被踢來踢去我們已經調查過了我們大概問了很多很多次收集了非常多的數據我們目前得到的是每年常態性的補助協會300多萬"},{"start":5842.333,"end":5859.474,"text":"距離你們心中想像的300多億真的是太遙遠了啦我說的是產業的scale幾乎真的是沒有在過去沒有促進電競產業做太多努力不調整選手的補助培訓的條件提高電競設施的可進性迎頭趕上其他國家的電競產業的發展"},{"start":5860.655,"end":5860.675,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5889.804,"end":5891.586,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5907.8,"end":5925.02,"text":"市長好先前台灣男籃參加亞洲杯資格賽的問題鬧得沸沸揚揚那我想也不只是這次出問題之前其實很多的運動項目我們要組國家隊出國比賽的時候都會有一些爭議冒出來那凸顯出選手們要組國家隊出國比賽的時候"},{"start":5929.225,"end":5943.817,"text":"從集訓的時程規劃球員的續約或到保險的議題真的很多問題我們都需要來改進那3月中的時候本席有跟蔡其昌委員莊瑞璇委員有一起召開公聽會那"},{"start":5945.498,"end":5956.428,"text":"我們跟職籃、職棒聯盟、還有協會、球員公會、產險公司等單位有一起討論所謂的體育職業選手參加國家隊的保險權益的這個課題解方"},{"start":5962.313,"end":5986.583,"text":"本席要強調身體是運動特別是職業選手非常重要的資產那代表國家出賽對選手來講其實是一個賭注如果整個比賽過程中那身體健康拿下好成績那當然是最好的結果可是如果比賽期間受傷了那小傷害這個小則休養了幾週幾個月那嚴重的話或許整個職業生涯就報銷了"},{"start":5991.826,"end":6011.605,"text":"講白一點,選手並沒有欠民眾或國家什麼。運動員跟一般職業人一樣,都需要有合理的保障和支持,他們也有家庭和經濟的負擔壓力,所以我們必須要給選手更好的保障,做選手最大的後盾。"},{"start":6012.566,"end":6012.726,"text":"當天公聽會討論幾個方案"},{"start":6029.188,"end":6044.112,"text":"當天鄭署長也有在場那最後結論是說在短期的方案是要檢討國家代表隊培訓選手及隊職員因培訓或參賽制短期失能、身心障礙或死亡發起未問津這個辦法要修這個辦法那針對短期失能"},{"start":6050.274,"end":6055.298,"text":"請問次長這部分的進度我們到哪裡了那接下來7月左右我們開始有瓊斯杯的籃球邀請賽9月又有這個U18青棒的這個錦標賽"},{"start":6070.45,"end":6088.63,"text":"那接下來那麼多的國際賽事而且我們還要考量到集訓的期間或許這個所謂的這個保障這個保險就要開始了所以我們必須要加速作業所以我現在是要請教是說我們趕得上就是我們現在的作業的辦法這個辦法的修正"},{"start":6089.491,"end":6089.511,"text":"市長："},{"start":6108.184,"end":6134.049,"text":"好 謝謝林委員我想這個在3月14號委員這邊大概召開了這個記者會那之後呢署裡面這邊也在積極在做一些的這個研議那短期的部分我們會就有關那個剛剛委員提到的衛生巾的這個辦法的部分會來做一個修正那因為這個辦法的部分基本上還要再做行政的公告所以預定應該是5月中5月份大概這個辦法的部分大概可以"},{"start":6135.35,"end":6160.972,"text":"公告完成這個相關的一個修法的一個程序所以大概應該是6、7月份之後剛剛提到的7、8月份的比賽應該就可以來做一個試用至於所需的這個經費的部分的話我們會先從這個公務預算那麼來做一個處理如果有不足的話那我們會訂入到這個國光獎章來申請這個動資預備金的方式來做一個處理所以不會讓這個財源有入不敷出的狀況"},{"start":6161.993,"end":6178.221,"text":"長期來講我們也在做一些的評估先期的評估的部分是不是在國體法上面來做一些的修正能夠把包含的這個學生選手或者是職業選手或者是國家代表隊等等他們的一個保險的部分能夠有更周延的這樣的判定"},{"start":6179.381,"end":6205.408,"text":"因為我們當天也有討論到說其實中長期或許可以依循所謂的學生團體保險這樣的模式建立一個所謂的體育保險的專法那用長期的制度來保障這些選手的權益那也是要請教次長就是你剛剛也有提到就是說用一個專法體育保險的專法可能會不見得是專法我們來評估啦也有可能是在國體法上所以現在有開始在進行這個可行性的評估對 是的好"},{"start":6206.648,"end":6215.75,"text":"當然我還是要強調像籃球的名將張宗憲他就有提到說他20歲開始打國家隊我們林委員的時間暫停還是一句話各位看清楚你前面左右的人好不好"},{"start":6234.261,"end":6239.986,"text":"我的門打開了來我們先等一下我們先等一下暫停一下暫停一下還有嗎還是我頭在昏還在有天啊我簡直OKOK嗎OKOKOK我們署長你OK哈OK好的我們時間繼續"},{"start":6265.111,"end":6291.217,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝主席就是說張宗憲這個選手他說他20歲開始打國家隊那15年過去了保險也還沒搞定那所以真的就是說這個事情我們不能再等所有的15年所以期待次長跟署長來努力趕快把這個東西透過這個你說修國體法我們把它可長可久的一個保障的制度好嗎"},{"start":6292.677,"end":6294.138,"text":"從根本來講選手的保險或參與國家隊的權利義務還有國家隊的組訓等等的問題其實都跟簽訂團體協約有關"},{"start":6310.223,"end":6316.789,"text":"職棒發展相對健全所以2022年中職已經跟球員公會簽訂了團體協約棒球都有一個模組模式可以參考我想其他運動像籃球足球排球等等什麼時候可以簽訂團體協約"},{"start":6329.802,"end":6340.63,"text":"藍球來好藍球其實也已經有工會也已經有職業聯盟我們看教育部的專案報告有提到說昨天已經有召開團體協約與運動員權益保障的經驗分享會議請問討論的狀況如何半年內有沒有辦法可以達成簽署我想提出"},{"start":6353.399,"end":6375.397,"text":"身為這個最高的這個運動的主管機關我覺得應該擔起這個重任來協助簽訂這個協約那不然到時候又發生哪個運動選手然後出賽沒有保險哪個選手什麼要爭取什麼出場費等等那竟然還被協會反問說打不好要不要獎懲這種那麼荒謬的這個問題所以我想署長您認為像這個事情半年內有沒有辦法達成簽署"},{"start":6382.383,"end":6390.569,"text":"報告委員我們從昨天開始主要是算是一個預備會議啦是就是說我們藉由中職副秘書長來給我們一個分享他過去談了兩年半跟工會談了兩年半這樣的期程中間怎麼去談誰來談然後怎麼方式那我們也請了政大的一位教授他屬於法律專長那他也要多方的認可那由他來協助把這樣的一個"},{"start":6404.798,"end":6426.093,"text":"公版協約協議來成立來處理他需要半年的時間來成立這個公版那個老師也特別強調因為在藍協跟竹協狀況比較複雜不是單純像中子是雇主跟球員的關係所以呢他比較不像團體協約雙方的協議但是的精神是差不多一樣的那"},{"start":6426.753,"end":6438.018,"text":"很難講說半年內可不可以簽訂因為這時間需要談判但是這個公版的部分至少我們現在半年內可以有這個公版然後提供雙方可以更進一步更細節性的去做談判好再來我想要跟次長討論說最近這個食安問題受到廣大的討論那本席要很肯定喔就之前蘇丹紅的事風波出來之後我們國訓中心立即就預防性的下架"},{"start":6456.265,"end":6480.094,"text":"相對的辣椒粉、咖哩粉相關的調味料那接下來我想巴黎奧運馬上就要到了那選手的後勤資源除了運動的科學資源、心理諮商還有體能訓練護理資源等等我覺得選手要吃的習慣、吃的安全也相當重要那上個禮拜本市有到跟一些委員有到國訓中心去做考察"},{"start":6480.714,"end":6507.083,"text":"那國訓中心的報告也有說我們在巴黎當地會租借這個公寓來處理膳食那包含提供飯類、餐點、面食等等也有冷凍調理包可以來加熱那也可以採取就是會當地採購食材來做處理那本席看了一下這個膳食公寓的這個地理位置距離選手村大約5到10分鐘的車程那如果到這個"},{"start":6510.704,"end":6512.286,"text":"實務一煮好,送到選手手上,其實應該還保有新鮮度。"},{"start":6525.641,"end":6553.896,"text":"那我想請教是說那我們膳食公寓內的這個食材的保存的條件跟設備是否充足我想因為最近又發生這些問題我這個而且對於選手要代表國家的選手來講這特別的重要那我們如何確保這些冷凍的這個條理包那它加復熱加工後的食安當地購買食材當然是最好可是"},{"start":6555.662,"end":6585.065,"text":"實材的新鮮度會比較沒有問題不過我們如果有沒有去掌握當地的所謂的這個食材購買的資訊那哪些食材是不是有一些疑慮因為每個國家或許都有一些食安的問題那這些有沒有掌握那還有個重點說我們比賽是7月到8月那個時候巴黎是正熱的時候那所以我想善食腐敗的狀況相對容易所以如何保存讓盡量選手讓安全無疑的吃這部分不曉得"},{"start":6586.345,"end":6611.55,"text":"謝謝委員關心我請鄭署長報告委員這部分我們也是跟一位台商公司一個國際公司來進行包括在當地的新鮮的食材的供應以及真空調理包的部分那我們是在儲藏的部分會有冷藏的這個設備那當然煮完之後馬上就會熱食馬上就送到我們的選手的身上去所以在食物的保鮮的部分應該是沒有太大的問題"},{"start":6612.31,"end":6627.211,"text":"那在針對當地的一個實案的資訊的部分除了他的當地的我們的台商的這個公司來協助之外當地的台商的餐廳也會給予必要的一個資源那我們的農業部也會提供必要的這樣一個相關的資訊來提供給我們"},{"start":6629.639,"end":6657.104,"text":"好那最後30秒就是網球一姐謝淑薇要重返女雙的這個她已經重返女雙的世界球後那她有表態說她要搭檔單打的選手來代表台灣隊出席這個巴黎奧運那上個月的時候她有給出五位搭檔的人選那不曉得要跟誰組隊那現在台灣排在女子單雙打前三百名的選手除了謝淑薇之外還有其他七個人"},{"start":6657.864,"end":6685.629,"text":"包括單雙打都符合資格的包括小鋼砲梁恩碩女單的楊雅依女雙也有詹詠然姊妹們之前里約奧運所發生的爭議大家都非常清楚雖然說往協有說雙打的搭檔會遵守謝淑薇的意願教練也會由謝淑薇來指定請問體育署這部分到底什麼時候能確定她的搭檔的部分那謝淑薇的教練"},{"start":6686.25,"end":6687.398,"text":"跟網協真的有做好協調了嗎?"},{"start":6689.053,"end":6705.599,"text":"報告委員這部分我們正在做協調那大部分他的教練團的部分應該九成都沒有問題了那現在只剩下其中一位的我們本國的教練目前在新制上面還在做協商但是呢他的搭檔的部分這部分可能是就是當時謝書友來書裡面有跟我談就是說他會交由他的戰術教練來跟他進行討論之後才會去做責定這部分正在進行當中OK好謝謝謝謝署長謝謝次長辛苦謝謝召委"},{"start":6718.84,"end":6720.342,"text":"陳培宇委員"},{"start":6737.011,"end":6759.808,"text":"委員長好 署長早我們來看一下這個我們辦公室之前一直在關心很多單向協會跟選手權利的義務之間其實一直出了很多事情我相信署長也都非常的清楚那我們之前也跟體育署很多討論但是我們覺得很多的回應其實不管是從協會端或是體育署端這邊來都有很大的落差我們在總質詢的時候問了體育教育部關於這個協會跟選手的問題教育部給我們的回應是說會強化溝通管道"},{"start":6764.631,"end":6766.012,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育部次長率體育署列席"},{"start":6782.346,"end":6786.088,"text":"這部分據我們了解是臺美是被這些的選手們臺美有透過一位理事來進行跟協會之間的一個溝通目前選手們他是知情的所以選手們都知情而且都同意嗎?署長這是你現在公開說的"},{"start":6801.577,"end":6803.739,"text":"這部分目前是50%的部分是由這個理事代表這個選手們來跟協會這邊來所以只有50%嗎?那還有另外50%呢?對不起,50%是指ITF他們給協會辦國際賽事的時候給了一筆錢"},{"start":6817.748,"end":6818.128,"text":"這也是署長您不樂見的"},{"start":6842.383,"end":6842.883,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6859.896,"end":6881.59,"text":"發生類似跟選手爭議的各個單項運動協會剛剛網協只是舉例之前不管是足協或者是籃協或是我剛說的網協其實各項單項體育協會一起來都有非常多爭議我相信署長也很頭痛啦我們希望可以成立你們可以成立專案小組在3個月內要求任何跟選手權益有關的討論決策都要邀請選手或者是選手的代表"},{"start":6882.21,"end":6900.399,"text":"同時體育署應該也要全程參與掌握而不是每次都出了新聞事件之後才有協會來跟體育署報告然後體育署可能收到的消息其實都不見得是完全正確跟百分之百然後體育署要幫協會背黑鍋我相信這也是全體國民不樂見的不知道這部分署長您覺得有沒有機會協委員這邊我也認同這邊我們已經在進行當中"},{"start":6902.6,"end":6918.529,"text":"三個月內我們希望根據某些協會那至於哪些協會要成立我想署長您心裡有數但是如果您覺得還需要跟不同的辦公室討論我們辦公室也很歡迎我們開放討論如果您覺得哪些有爭議的協會我這邊就不要問你哪些協會了好不好不要讓署長為難"},{"start":6919.309,"end":6920.989,"text":"發言委員．這是我任內的當務之急,這部分我會努力的去做。"},{"start":6948.197,"end":6950.8,"text":"冰球的事情2022年6月26號選手在比賽過程中重傷到了2024年他們寫信給署長信箱為什麼拖這麼久才寫信呢我們來看一下可是你們回給他們說會輔導冰球協會盡力協助"},{"start":6968.32,"end":6990.969,"text":"這個申請保險的李培事宜兩年後才想到有保險我們想問體育署積極的輔導狀況到底在哪裡當時你們保的這個險是長成這樣子的署長跟你報告一下保的是公共意外責任保險那難道體育署認為只有在這個受訓的過程當中需要用到嗎他們在移動在交通過程當中他們是集訓期一整年的集訓期耶但為什麼會長成這個樣子"},{"start":6992.915,"end":7014.363,"text":"這部分也的確正如委員之前給我們體育署的建議在運動員的部分的保障不是只有公安安全的這個意外險的一個保障而已這部分我們正在研議當中也謝謝委員提醒我們但是這個選手他目前已經在到處澄清了因為這個小孩目前狀況其實並不理想他要好好取很多恢復的費用所以我不知道體育署是這部分協會正在處理當中 申訴委員會正在處理當中"},{"start":7015.603,"end":7029.314,"text":"那我相信體育署應該要積極介入協助這邊呢我是不是就直接的要求針對冰球協會忽視選手受傷後他們掌握這個態度跟那個回覆的狀況真的都不是太OK是不是請署長這邊積極的關心協助這個個案報告委員這的確已經陳榮銘講的其實我們在保險的部分的確應該更進一步來協助這些學生運動員"},{"start":7035.819,"end":7036.039,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7051.564,"end":7053.005,"text":"我相信署長也是很累了 這個沒有問題"},{"start":7071.653,"end":7077.477,"text":"這部分我們在前天有召開一個專家學者會議那的確這部分我們的確有一些保險上的一個難處但是我們就比照我們對職業選手這個短期失能險這樣的精神去為了選手來做一些彌補那這部分我們在演繹當中"},{"start":7098.69,"end":7110.738,"text":"這個相關的會議召開我相信應該要邀請選手作為代表而且是各個單項運動是這個是初步的討論而已好那我相信更積極的討論一定要讓選手知情好嗎他們不要是最後又收到一個很莫名其妙的保險通知這樣好嗎再來"},{"start":7113.37,"end":7134.327,"text":"這個靈溶忍的部分這兩天就是兒童節我們辦公室一直在強調所有兒少的權益有包含兒少選手的權益那署長應該也記得在去年最後的質詢的時候我提出對教育部靈溶忍的質詢會中我也提醒教育部靈溶忍不能只是口號還要提醒各個單位要注意所謂的不受歡迎的名單不知道署長還你記不記得這件事情"},{"start":7134.667,"end":7134.907,"text":"報告委員：這部分"},{"start":7161.966,"end":7185.064,"text":"我在最近這幾天我也有深入去了解那目前主要的關卡應該在於我們的競技的這一部分應該說學校的部分學校組的部分我們的這個當教練他本身他的犯的錯比方說體罰或一些輕微的性騷的部分但是還沒有達到不適任被解職的情況之下"},{"start":7185.765,"end":7186.405,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":7211.472,"end":7219.079,"text":"怎麼講,去提告的時候,他的判決有時候是過失這個張教練的事情署長你一定非常非常的清楚那他對待小孩的事情我想你也很清楚他把小孩屁股打爛甚至還讓同一隊的球員來圍觀這個事情還有非常非常多不當的體罰那後來呢做出相關的懲處也依法公布了這個姓名可是很可笑的事情就是因為他不在相關的名單公布系統他只在兒少法他在教育系統那邊好像大家一副不知道一樣"},{"start":7238.476,"end":7257.376,"text":"結果很好笑的是他就讓我們教育文化委員會另外一個立法委員他在選舉活動的時候甚至邀請到這個有虐兒前科的教練一起參與這個活動你覺得對於一般家長來說或是對於這個球隊甚至是這個受害小孩來說他情何以堪所以我們一直在強調所謂不受歡迎名單這件事情的重要性接下來"},{"start":7258.617,"end":7263.724,"text":"教育部的林榮忍到底是什麼狀態我們還看到他還成為這個人他還成為相關的協會顧問我當然知道署長你會有你的說法我們還看到後續你們在這個單項協會的補助裡面你們給了這個協會85萬的補助然後我們就問說那為什麼這個人還在協會裡面當顧問呢體育署給我們的回應是"},{"start":7278.621,"end":7280.562,"text":"這部分你講的沒有錯所以最近的其實我也該要求我的同仁"},{"start":7298.428,"end":7302.97,"text":"所以署長你也認同我的說法嗎對不對你們體育署自己說這個這個協會這個顧問的負擔費用是他們自己承擔所以他就可以出現在賽事當中他甚至可以做整個賽事的顧問欸所以你也不認同嗎對不對我不認同"},{"start":7325.178,"end":7336.748,"text":"對 所以你們會更積極所以除了你剛剛說的之外只要你們體育署有補助這個相關的名單這個不受歡迎的名單應該要比我們想像的更廣才對 對嗎因為他們是第一時間在現場接觸到這些小孩的"},{"start":7337.674,"end":7358.007,"text":"報告委員這部分不受歡迎的名單這部分我們需要研議這可能還是跟他的工作權跟他的法有關係那這部分我們後面再來進行那我們再來問一樣是這個中華民國五人制足球協會最近你們也做了一件事情我覺得是我們大人做錯事情但是卻讓孩子來承擔後果臺北海洋科技大學的孩子他們去報名了在報名的第一時間他們沒有被發現你們覺得他們資格符合然後就讓他們一路一路打"},{"start":7361.969,"end":7391.769,"text":"打進了決賽結果發現這個事情我們來看一下當天呢你們還去開了協調會有次長林次長還有署長還有學校體育組的組長你們最後做出來決議是說取消他們的比賽資格但是根據他們所參加的賽事你們給予經費補助我覺得這不是錢的事情可以解決我們真心要說我們看見的是我們大人做錯事情但是卻要小孩來承擔小孩難道沒有情緒嗎家長難道沒有情緒嗎一路打到現在當然相關的辦法跟機制是需要調整跟改進可是在這件事情上我們看到"},{"start":7392.869,"end":7392.989,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7415.015,"end":7442.013,"text":"發言委員這部分我想當時會發生這個原因主要是因為在系統上開放給非學的這個我們都知道後來我們協調的是說我們也跟學校方也請學校方跟學生們同學們能做一個良好的一個溝通好署長你說你跟學校方溝通你請學校跟孩子溝通但是上場努力拼搏的是孩子其實我們後來得到的消息是其實孩子們他們同學們其實最在乎的是這個制度能不能永久就是說他們"},{"start":7442.833,"end":7457.781,"text":"明年後年他們是不是可以依然去做這樣的一個參賽的制度那這部分我們的確也打算在專一專二專三的部分列入明年的一個賽事的一個資格裡面那這部分今年是因為競賽規程已經在那個地方我們不得不請他們去"},{"start":7458.882,"end":7459.182,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝署長 謝謝主席"},{"start":7489.62,"end":7494.502,"text":"謝謝陳委員接下來我們請葉元智委員請自長我們請自長"},{"start":7515.51,"end":7519.294,"text":"運動產業發展條例第24條之一條文草案運動票券不能加價賣"},{"start":7537.552,"end":7538.532,"text":"運產條例24條之一是在大院去年12月15日三讀通過"},{"start":7557.199,"end":7577.294,"text":"那現在大概是三月,今天四月了,已經將近三個月的時間,不曉得這三個月當中有沒有黃牛因為我們這個法案通過之後被罰的狀況有沒有?目前是還沒有這樣子的一個個案跟處罰還沒有個案齁?沒有個案原因是因為法律產生了嚇阻的效果"},{"start":7578.12,"end":7578.841,"text":"書長可以回答"},{"start":7596.316,"end":7619.942,"text":"對,現在陸陸續續大概,包含呢,現在在大巨蛋裡面有些賽事,對,值班開始,陸陸續續大概就會賽事的產生。值班陸陸續續開始有賽事,所以黃牛票情況就會比較嚴重?沒有,這個部分我們要進一步觀察,我沒有設定那個...所以次長大概因你的預估的話,黃牛票的情況大概什麼時候比較嚴重,然後你們現在會根據這個法律所做的因應,比如說取締的作為為何?"},{"start":7621.024,"end":7622.686,"text":"我的問題其實是說你們有因應的作為嗎?"},{"start":7640.026,"end":7661.856,"text":"因為我們現在已經有法律基礎了 那個因應作為是什麼還是請署長回答也可以報告委員 那我們在2月29號有公布執法 所以在裁罰的部分以及獎勵檢舉各方面我們都已經在進行 那我們也做了黃牛票的這個檢舉專區也跟各地方縣市的警局這部分來 警政的系統來做合作"},{"start":7662.256,"end":7686.702,"text":"那原則上就是如果這個賽事以他第一場發生的這個縣市的警政單位來負責受理這樣一個檢舉的部分好那因為我們陸續在網路上還是有找到一些有人在賣票卷不知道說有沒有去做海巡就是說去巡查網路上這些行為因為已經有法律了當然是希望能夠比較嚴格的執法杜絕這個黃牛票的情況產生"},{"start":7688.612,"end":7715.479,"text":"那另外還有一個問題就是去年法院有一個判例啦黃油票如果搭配搭售來販賣的話其實是無罪的這個判例就是說有一個網友他在臉書上賣大巨蛋開幕的門票那因為他是搭配一些球員的周邊商品比如說鑰匙圈啊等等然後最後法院是說這個他沒有要賣票的意圖啦他賣的是周邊商品啦所以就無罪了"},{"start":7716.823,"end":7743.662,"text":"後來網友就在討論這是不是其實開了一個後門即便有這個法律存在可是只要黃牛他拿票搭配一些周邊商品來賣的話他就不構成犯罪那我不知道署長有沒有掌握到這個判例跟相關的情形包委員根據我們目前公布的這個母法跟子法讓食物用加價販售的手法用綁物品來售票的行為就您剛提到綁物品來售票的行為它也屬於違法的情況"},{"start":7744.483,"end":7766.457,"text":"可是法院不這麼認為啊那是因為去年他還沒有這個法的風格那現在他就屬於違法的行為會被裁罰那會不會產生什麼模糊的空間你們是怎麼算的這是怎麼去判定目前他就是他如果綁定了他就綁物品的售票行為我們還是一樣依照我們的裁罰表還是一樣不管他的東西是貴不貴對一樣還是會裁罰就是會裁罰如果超過他原來的價值的話還是會裁罰"},{"start":7768.423,"end":7778.108,"text":"你會去計算他周邊商品的價值以及票面的價值那他如果賣的東西是非常貴的東西比如說他賣1200塊然後票300塊他賣1200塊可是他的周邊商品可能有超過1200塊你這樣還要罰嗎知道我問題嗎"},{"start":7789.213,"end":7814.025,"text":"我了解你的意思,但這部分我們可能還會去再,這個案我們還是要跟這個檢調單位來做討論。來研究一下。謝謝。然後再來就是,另外一個問題就是,有關於藍,就是子蘭有爆發遷讀的事件,我剛剛看到你們也有報告相關的議題。我想請教一下,因為本來我們體育署的副署長好像有說在兩個月內要建立一個防堵的機制是不是,跟政策。"},{"start":7814.778,"end":7827.13,"text":"那我們辦公室有去跟體育署要資料那現在我看到體育署好像在這幾個月沒做什麼事了好像只有召開一個什麼建立籃球運動防堵機制的宣導座談"},{"start":7828.697,"end":7848.059,"text":"然後還有一個在治安匯報的時候你做一個報告而已啊感覺好像沒有很積極欸請教一下體育署這幾個月到底做了什麼嗎有關於相關的事情報告委員因為我們跟中池在中池的防甲球的部分已經原本跟檢證系統檢調系統就已經有建立一個平台"},{"start":7848.439,"end":7848.699,"text":"法治教育"},{"start":7872.067,"end":7874.849,"text":"之前沒有做這一塊嗎?之前是沒有"},{"start":7900.327,"end":7927.823,"text":"因為這件事件然後我們才去做要求那為什麼之前沒有因為之前的確在職業賽事方面沒有發生這些問題的情況之前職棒就有啊職籃就覺得比較是所以因為這樣的事件我們目前就延伸到不只是籃球我們其他只要職業賽事我們未來都會往這個方向來預先去部署去進行好那另外有一個你們說要研議建置一個不法信託基金那目前這個執行狀況是怎樣"},{"start":7929.198,"end":7953.659,"text":"目前這部分還在談目前的確因為籃球的選手他們跟棒球不太一樣是他們沒有所謂的簽約金那從他們的薪水裡面來做那個撥付那這部分我們剛剛其他委員也有提議那這部分我們體育署這邊會聯同協會在這一塊來補足補足什麼就是建立這樣的一個制度我們盡快來進行這件事情所以那這個要怎麼運作"},{"start":7955.643,"end":7979.633,"text":"目前是由選手他們本身我們是出席下他們拿出一定比例的這個薪資來放入這個信託的基金裡面然後等他們如果退休的時候如果沒有發生這樣類似的假球的事件的時候我們再再把錢還他對對對那如果有打假球錢就沒收當然是這個意思當然那這有用嗎這個其實也算是選手本身自律的一個行為啦其實有時候打假球他"},{"start":7981.196,"end":7981.496,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":8007.123,"end":8010.828,"text":"打假球對球迷的心會很受傷教育部也說要推出一些防弊的機制現在看起來好幾個月了"},{"start":8027.385,"end":8050.216,"text":"我看起來是沒什麼進度啦我覺得進度太緩慢了啦然後包括你說會研議這個機制這個機制到底能不能達到效果我們也是很存疑啦更何況說你說那個不拔基金到底怎麼運作你到現在還在研議當中所以實際上真的動作是真的有點慢大概什麼時候會有一個比較具體的防打假球的一個方案會出來大概什麼時候"},{"start":8053.17,"end":8076.391,"text":"信託的部分主要還是屬於職業選手他們本身的自律的行為那部分我們還是會協請公會跟藍協一起來討論因為你們自己也講了嘛但是運彩我們比較積極地作為運彩的投注標的這件事情是由法這邊來遏止所以我們希望盡快台灣運彩公司盡快把P聯盟把它納進來這樣我們用法的部分來遏止選手們打假球這件事情"},{"start":8076.391,"end":8098.446,"text":"主長因為你們自己那時候提兩點聲明嘛其中一個就是說會建立一個跨部會的防止機制這個已經做了對那問題是只是建立平台沒有實際的作為啊有有其實我們現在整個警政跟我們的檢調都有在協助我們都有到各個球團裡面去這個一定都已經在做了那好啦我覺得這個部分可以盡快了好不好"},{"start":8098.726,"end":8112.702,"text":"然後再來這個次長因為我還有一點時間跟你請教一下我上次有個臨時提案是講到說我們現在私立國中直升私立高中他被你們排除補助學費上次有個臨時提案嘛那你們說要回去研議不知道有沒有進度"},{"start":8113.49,"end":8140.707,"text":"是那個因為我們上次講我們講說因為你們那個賴總統說要教育平權嘛所以所有的高中都可以補助學費嘛但只有漏網之魚是說如果是私立國中直升私立高中這一塊就被漏掉了跟委員報告講這個是涉及到那個高級中等教育法裡面的規定那我請問那個要修啊因為站在平權的角度不因他入學的方式來把他排除嗎對"},{"start":8142.304,"end":8170.561,"text":"有沒有什麼進度沒有嗎跟委員報告因為前次也有說明過因為在審高級重點教育法的時候這個議題也是被高度關注所以它是直接在條文裡頭有審訊法是民國幾年的時候是不是100年時間可能要再查一下是不是起碼超過一年嗎超過一年以上但是你們教育部還有那個賴清德是什麼時候宣布說要平權是去年嗎"},{"start":8171.988,"end":8175.729,"text":"好 謝謝接下來我們請郭育晴委員在郭委員質詢完畢之後我們暫時休息5分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":8199.782,"end":8202.825,"text":"蘇希早安,有請次長好,請次長郭委員好早安我想這個東京帕運其實在上一次2021年的時候其實他們有特別提到一個口號就是We the 15他是一個平權的一個倡議的一個活動"},{"start":8221.841,"end":8240.293,"text":"全球有15%是身障人士,但是其實他們不特別,但是我們希望用平等的一個角度來看,那當然這樣子的一個風潮,我相信其實台灣也應該要隨時要跟進啦。那緊接著下來其實大家會注意到就是在今年的巴黎的奧運,那同時在8月28號其實巴黎的帕運也開始要展開了喔。"},{"start":8243.435,"end":8272.103,"text":"當然其實我們台灣也非常的期待就是有可以去參與已經有這樣子的一個入選的一些選手他們的現狀的一個狀況那我想要問的是就是在奧運選手他們的獎金其實我們可以看到就是同樣的都在獎金的部分我相信其實這個部分應該也有很多的這個帕運的選手或者是身上的一些選手他們已經喊了很多年了"},{"start":8272.603,"end":8274.244,"text":"金牌和銀牌和銅牌的部分我們光就金牌的部分先來看一下金牌他們是兩千萬"},{"start":8297.783,"end":8321.155,"text":"另外在帕運選手的部份在金牌的獎金的部份其實相差了有5倍之多那更不用講到教練優良的教練的獎金差到20倍那我想其實很多的身上選手他們在受訪的時候他們也特別表示就是一直爭取已經爭取了快20年了那一直沒有辦法突破"},{"start":8321.755,"end":8322.115,"text":"是的,謝謝郭委員,就像剛剛郭委員提到的"},{"start":8342.808,"end":8370.385,"text":"有關亞奧運的選手的部分是依照國光獎章的相關規定辦法來給予獎助學金那這個帕運的選手基本上是依照另外帕運的相關的獎勵辦法來給予因為亞奧運的部分跟帕運的部分或是亞帕運的部分基本上因為它的賽事跟它的性質分析的部分是不太一樣"},{"start":8370.985,"end":8394.639,"text":"對,是的,雖然規模比較小,但是我相信其實選手他們在努力跟爭取的表現其實都是一樣的那針對帕印的選手的這個獎金提高的部分,體育署也一直都在做一個研議那目前大概應該是在6月份左右,大概應該會有一個初步的結果希望能夠再把獎金的部分再做一個升級"},{"start":8395.379,"end":8396.22,"text":"為什麼我們身上的國際賽事他們的成績這幾年這幾屆當中我們來看一下國際賽事的部分"},{"start":8416.639,"end":8424.249,"text":"的獎牌數是逐年的下降從2006年的總共69面的獎章2010年的26面的一個獎章2014年38"},{"start":8432.26,"end":8447.722,"text":"2018年是25面那其實總共在到上一屆2022年的這個杭州的帕運最後剩下20面的獎牌那我在想說我們的培訓計畫是中間出了什麼樣的落差嗎"},{"start":8451.686,"end":8462.994,"text":"雖然在獎金的部分目前還有一些研議的空間但是在對選手的照顧方面在我去年上任之前全民主這邊已經針對他們的亞帕的這個準備設立在整個縣市很多的訓練的據點"},{"start":8464.155,"end":8464.315,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8483.307,"end":8507.175,"text":"您說的是帕拉基層訓練嗎?對,那這部分我目前在這一塊我也積極地希望在他們的照顧上面能夠享有跟其他亞運、奧運的選手是一樣的待遇這部分我正在努力進行所以培訓的基地現在是有增加的?是是這樣嗎?對我們來看一下最後一張好嗎?目前有30個據點但是國訓中心是第一次把帕拉的選手整個帶進來長期集訓"},{"start":8508.575,"end":8509.075,"text":"其他縣市呢?"},{"start":8522.608,"end":8547.927,"text":"報告委員這部分的確我們在頂尖的選手的部分的確有區域上他們發展的特色但是在學校端我們從去年開始也有運動輔具以及我們身障選手這部分的特教透過各縣市的特教的資源中心給一些不管是體育老師的身心障礙相關的共融式教育的協助的教育還有運動輔具的協助我們在各縣市正在努力當中"},{"start":8548.507,"end":8577.164,"text":"既然體育署這邊提到了學校我們就來看看學校這也是我等一下要問的齁好您說在我根據了這個教育部的官網所公布的111年的學年度其實我們學校的體育的統計喔從小學端一直開到國中端高中端的身障運動代表隊的項目看到好我把框列下來的齁包含國小國中以及高中的部分在國小的部分您有發現到有跆拳道對不對"},{"start":8579.136,"end":8602.11,"text":"對國中呢目前沒看到好那高中呢沒有好也就是說我們一直在說要向下扎根那包含尤其是這些身上的體育選手他們要從小開始從基層訓練那從國小畢業之後他們在國小其實有受到訓練畢業之後其實到了國中我就鍛鍊了我要去哪裡"},{"start":8603.206,"end":8619.809,"text":"報告委員,因為111年這樣的情況,所以我們從去年開始,教育部也大力地推行共融式這樣的體育課程的教育,那加上我們剛剛講的運動輔具,那我們去年的執行率的確也還沒有達到我們預期的原因,是因為很多學校他們第一次遇到還在"},{"start":8620.23,"end":8620.33,"text":"主席"},{"start":8646.664,"end":8675.437,"text":"要投入資源啊不是口號啊所以我們去年是有投入資源但是呢執行率還沒有到如果我有小孩他是身上的選手他在國小他是有可以訓練的地方然後他是有訓練的資源等到我的小孩如果國中到了國中我是沒地方你要怎麼樣培養沒有錯所以這部分我們去年體育老師我們目前應該有將近五成的老師已經有接受這樣一個教育我們在進行當中那私營體育的部分我們的推廣呢我們在加緊腳步"},{"start":8677.128,"end":8677.948,"text":"天花板有多高"},{"start":8698.176,"end":8714.151,"text":"運動潛力新秀2004年12月31號出生18歲以下以下的這五個條件當中的其中之一光第一個條件競賽項目當中客觀成績其成績最近一屆的Ting Out要前16名的水準"},{"start":8714.751,"end":8723.859,"text":"我才能夠培育他第二聽奧的項目在世界排名前16名具有國際競爭力我才培育他第三身心障礙的記錄全國保持人聽障記錄全國保持人才有國際競爭力我才培育他第四"},{"start":8734.908,"end":8748.457,"text":"競賽項目當中具有國際性的綜合賽事潛力奪牌選手我才培育他第5如果他已經申請到了因為我得不到這邊的幫助我得到其他的補助你還不能申請你們會不會覺得這個天花板有點太高"},{"start":8750.478,"end":8771.53,"text":"報告委員我想這個部分還是要分為我們在學校的教育體系下給予我們的學生運動員包括身障選手的協助以及這個部分比較屬於頂尖的運動員的部分讓我們在奧拉運的選手也是用類似這樣的方式來做一個補助那如果說我們因為這個畢竟還是比較屬於頂尖的部分我們可以更多的資源進去但是我們學校的部分也會"},{"start":8772.891,"end":8778.333,"text":"我個人是覺得到了今年3月當然我們的這些身上優秀的選手3月的時候我們才把他送去國訓中心對不對對8月就要比賽囉是會不會太晚"},{"start":8793.325,"end":8818.678,"text":"報告委員這部分我也努力很久的確我覺得有點晚但是我去年已經有陸陸續續有短期進去但這一次的長期我也努力了很久讓他進去了不要等到他們其實是在外部受訓然後他們自己家他們的家庭投入了大批的這個培訓自己孩子然後最後他得獎了結果我們體育署參觀然後才把他送進去我會努力來進行來協助這部分我想"},{"start":8819.138,"end":8848.148,"text":"謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":8849.189,"end":8853.505,"text":"謝謝主席謝謝委員好我們接下來休息5分鐘謝謝"},{"start":9167.796,"end":9173.043,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請登記第9號的陳秀寶委員謝主席 先請次長 林次長好 次長 謝謝"},{"start":9186.471,"end":9189.674,"text":"陳委員好次長早在這邊先請教次長我們113年度的動資券從今年的1月1號開始發放領取那統計到3月31號領取率只有19.3%還不到20%目前大概33萬多"},{"start":9202.406,"end":9229.634,"text":"那使用率呢更只有9.9%還不到10%那相對於文化部他的文化禮金他是從1月20號開始發放統計到3月18呢他的領取率已經有將近70%使用率也超過40%也就是說如果以比較文化禮金扣掉晚領取的時間以及統計的時間呢那動資券比起動資券的發放有4倍的成效跟這個效率市長你覺得這是什麼原因造成的"},{"start":9230.922,"end":9231.143,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9260.542,"end":9260.562,"text":"動資券"},{"start":9279.582,"end":9280.323,"text":"請問次長除了倒領事件之外有沒有發現其他異常的狀況"},{"start":9291.971,"end":9296.636,"text":"除了倒領這個狀況之外你有沒有掌握其他違規的事件目前的部分應該整體來講應該還算正常"},{"start":9311.852,"end":9335.001,"text":"那所以你們不知道說除了倒領之外還有什麼狀況其實以倒領的狀況你們是說你們因為啟動健保卡號驗證機制所以你們覺得說已經大幅降低盜用的這個案件的機率但是除了倒領之外其實動資券跟上個禮拜本席在詢問文化禮經營的這個部分有遇到相同的問題就是轉賣的情況是很嚴重的"},{"start":9337.122,"end":9337.182,"text":"公開社團買賣動資券"},{"start":9352.096,"end":9353.117,"text":"市長,我想知道我們提出這邊有什麼作為?根據這種轉賣的狀況,你們有什麼作為?"},{"start":9374.972,"end":9377.274,"text":"我們希望鼓勵我們的孩子們多運動、參加賽事,就是說我們希望他們有運動的好習慣"},{"start":9400.609,"end":9412.326,"text":"那這個部分呢 那就請我們體育署這邊針對這個東之鵑的違規狀況你們制定了相關的對策不要讓我們發東之鵑的這個美意付諸流水而且還有我希望說針對磊帆因為我們從16歲到22歲這個區間他們會連續領很多年"},{"start":9416.952,"end":9418.052,"text":"請教育部次長率體育署列席"},{"start":9434.497,"end":9451.773,"text":"是的,好的,我們針對那個有轉賣的這種狀況,我們在那個QA上面大概都有一些警示性的一個提示語啦,那委員剛剛提到的是不是說如果他有到達比如說有那個轉賣的這種這個事實呢,經過查證之後是不是一定時間裡面取消他的這個發卷,這個我們來研議,來我們研議處理"},{"start":9453.715,"end":9481.868,"text":"好 那就麻煩次長了再來我要想請教我國代表隊代表我國參加國際賽事呢取役署這邊都有編列預算為我們的運動員來投保暫時失能險以及永久失能險那暫時失能險是以每個月兩萬以上來起跳會依照運動員的薪資來進行調整如果你的薪資高一點他給付就會比較高那最長給付是一年那永久失能險的投保額度是固定是在三百萬"},{"start":9482.708,"end":9503.663,"text":"其實我們現在呢我們現在其實交通非常的方便我們用信用卡去消費來搭乘公共的運輸禮品險至少都有一千萬兩千萬那如果說我們運動員的永久失能險他的額度就只有三百萬對運動員來講真的是保障是非常的不夠那本席這邊也問過我們體育署從103年到112年這將近十年時間其實有投保失能險的國際賽事出險人數非常的低只有六人"},{"start":9511.548,"end":9516.371,"text":"目前杭州亞運大概有500多名的運動員團體的保費是250萬東京奧運有68名的運動員保障價格是30萬那體署這邊有沒有說可以用我們出險率這麼低我們來跟保險公司來講說我們理賠提高或者說我們增加保費來跟保險公司這邊提高保險的額度"},{"start":9539.002,"end":9554.089,"text":"謝謝委員,我想對於選手照顧的部分,我們都持續來做一些關注也謝謝委員的關心,我想針對失能險的部分,這個保單的部分基本上是最低的保險的狀況"},{"start":9558.331,"end":9573.028,"text":"目前的部份的話,針對保險公司,因為有關運動員保險目前國內的保險公司也有限因為其實運動員他在這樣子的運動生涯他對自己的身體狀況他會非常的珍惜也非常的保護"},{"start":9573.809,"end":9573.829,"text":"委員長"},{"start":9588.746,"end":9589.486,"text":"這部分的話基本上巴黎奧運在即"},{"start":9615.655,"end":9621.1,"text":"市長本席的意思就是說我們其實在保險的額度上我們盡可能的去提高當然希望都不要用到但是萬一有不幸的事件發生的時候他們有比較高的保障好嗎"},{"start":9639.616,"end":9641.978,"text":"國訓中心運動心理人員的相關問題本集關心運動心理人員這個議題以來其實我們國訓中心這邊的運動心理人員一直都沒有滿編大概都是在6到8位的這個員額"},{"start":9656.509,"end":9662.731,"text":"運科中心正式營運後,甚至原有只剩下4位,其中有3位從國訓中心轉任到運科中心,還有1位先辭職,再去運聘。運科中心擔任研究助理及助理研究員"},{"start":9674.855,"end":9693.1,"text":"那我們看一下這個表格其實次長您看一下你就大概知道說為什麼他們不要留在國訓中心而願意到運科中心因為他們到運科中心的這個待遇呢加上教授學術的這個研究費呢最多最多加總起來可能是國訓中心的3倍"},{"start":9693.86,"end":9708.334,"text":"那您覺得次長以這樣子的薪資待遇他願意留在國訓中心的這個機率應該是真的是很不高大家都想要到運科中心喔那是不是我們也應該來演繹說適時的調高國訓中心的運動心理能源的待遇呢"},{"start":9709.512,"end":9725.858,"text":"跟委員報告一下,針對這個在國興中心所聘用的是專業技術人員那專業技術人員的部分是兩個中心的部分基本上都是一致的那至於運科中心這邊另外的部分他是比較偏重在"},{"start":9727.058,"end":9755.351,"text":"這個運科的研究研究研發的一個規劃當然這樣子這樣的人員他要從國訓中心到運科中心一定有他的專業在不是所有人都能過去但是相較於他如果有這個能力的時候他具備這樣的能力的時候他就不會願意留在國訓中心他一定會到運科中心那是不是說我們必須要在這個基礎點上我們先去考慮為什麼他如果有這樣的能力他有這樣的才能的時候他不願意留在國訓中心就是因為他的薪資制度"},{"start":9755.911,"end":9755.931,"text":"市長﹗"},{"start":9778.722,"end":9798.669,"text":"這個您這邊的說法我知道我也理解但是我今天在這邊跟您再一次的提起就是說這個薪資制度的這個部分你們就要去檢討那你同樣的他有這樣的能力他就馬上要他有具備這樣的資格的時候他就馬上想要到運客中心一定是因為國訓中心留不住他嘛那在這邊呢我還是要跟次長您提醒喔"},{"start":9804.021,"end":9820.695,"text":"運動心理人員跟我們運動員這個長久的這個穩定的這個默契他們是要一起培養起來的那對選手才能夠有這個一定程度的幫助那如果你是陌生的你已經就是說他們沒有去培養這樣的默契起來"},{"start":9821.095,"end":9840.6,"text":"其實有時候我們這些運動員遇到問題的時候他不見得就可以馬上得到他所需要的這些相關的幫助相關的資助所以說從培訓期間我們慢慢培養這樣的信任感起來我們就希望說是一個長期的是一個長期起來的信任感那如果你國訓中心一直留不住這些人才"},{"start":9841.44,"end":9857.433,"text":"那對我們的運動員相對的也算是一種資源沒有辦法給他一個強力的後盾所以這個部分呢我希望說次長我再次跟您提了你聽到今天我再次跟您提醒了我們對於我們國訓中心運動心理人員不足的這個部分我們盡量趕快把人員補足再來我們這個整個薪資的結構可以盡快的來做研議做調整讓我們這些人"},{"start":9867.681,"end":9880.299,"text":"這些運動心理人員可以適時的提供給我們運動員他們所需要的幫助,可以嗎?是的,我想委員剛剛提到的關於國慶中心那個不足編的人數的部分,我們會盡快請國慶中心來聘組"},{"start":9883.002,"end":9883.962,"text":"主席你再給我20秒就好了"},{"start":9912.473,"end":9917.538,"text":"市長我這邊要跟您提醒今天早上的這個強震全台搖晃不停到現在餘震都還不斷那請我們教育部這邊一定要趕快請我們當地的教育局處趕快盤點我們學校如果有什麼地方需要協助的請教育部這邊一定要全力來協助需要幫助的這個"},{"start":9930.031,"end":9930.932,"text":"范允媛委員"},{"start":9954.425,"end":9954.746,"text":"謝謝召委有請次長跟署長"},{"start":9963.867,"end":9972.889,"text":"次長署長早安今天我還是繼續追我之前問過的我們體育協會裡面的性別平等的議題應該署長會記得我去年就針對國民體育法第39條第4項3款希望可以明定特定體育團體的理事任意性別不能低於三成"},{"start":9988.352,"end":10013.443,"text":"後來教育部給我的報告就是說單項協會理事的女性比例我看到只有17.63%我的修法的部分我想署長這邊給我的報告好像覺得就是說目前比較沒辦法做到你們體育署有講到說在你們的努力下其實有進展你們的努力下就是"},{"start":10014.784,"end":10031.971,"text":"理事會女性達成比率是24.6 署長覺得這樣有進展其他我就不一一詢問了那你們的報告裡面是說因為女性的參與意願低請問署長這是你們的分析嗎"},{"start":10033.015,"end":10060.925,"text":"報告委員,我們目前是先發言給各個協會要求他們在下一屆要選舉理事長的時候他們聘任的這些委員會的成員一定要女性一定要三分之一以上至於理事的部分這部分我也覺得跟上一次會期上一次有跟委員有討論過我們樂於來在近期我們參加公聽會來跟協會這邊來做一個商討看看是不是在國體法的部分我們來做這樣的一個修正"},{"start":10061.581,"end":10090.515,"text":"那你知道我們不分區喔就是說憲法有保障一半的女性立委嘛那就是說這些女性立委喔包含這個趙薇跟我們我們都認真努力喔就是我想表現不輸男性喔所以我對你講這個女性意願低喔有一點懷疑啊不過這是你們的就是目前的評估喔那當然如果你認為現在修法似乎以我讀到的報告如果沒有誤解似乎還不需要或是不適宜是這樣嗎"},{"start":10092.555,"end":10119.843,"text":"應該說目前協會的反饋當然是覺得這方面的女性的參與的意願比較低但是我也是認同委員的說法我們就是來開公聽會然後往這個方向來修法這個部分我們是樂於配合的好那你們樂於配合的話我覺得還是應該要思考如何改善體育領域決策層級目前真的是就是說偏向單一性別了你問協會的話協會回應的人是不是現任的理事們"},{"start":10120.723,"end":10121.243,"text":"加成的比例多少可以知道嗎?"},{"start":10150.834,"end":10178.701,"text":"加成比例太低的話就沒有誘因啊是是加成比例署長不知道是嗎目前是幾十萬但是這部分的確可以來檢討那算的分數佔多少因為我們都知道這個比重大概每個可能佔你總體積分的百分之多少這個加成一般來講大概八分之一到四分之一之間八分之一到四分之一因為每個協會的工作有多少協會因為這樣子的加成然後得到比較多補助"},{"start":10179.161,"end":10204.776,"text":"目前的確是還算蠻消極目前的確需要更積極應該署長喔就是說如果這個加成沒有幫助的話就沒有意義嘛所以你的這個手段要真的得到鼓勵效果那你知道我們行政院就是性別主流化現在連就是所有的委員會當中喔連就是說過去比較難找到女性的都會陸續找到所以有個管控的一個鼓勵過程那您這邊是不是可以訂出一個"},{"start":10205.296,"end":10205.777,"text":"多久內可以給我一個書面報告?"},{"start":10229.11,"end":10229.51,"text":"三個月後我下一個會期會繼續追這題"},{"start":10249.078,"end":10269.43,"text":"另外一題也是跟體育署有關那你們的體育政策白皮書其中有一項非常好的目標國內目前鮮少針對特殊族群高齡者身心障礙者婦女兒童弱勢提供專用安全合理的運動休閒環境所以你們的目標要讓這些弱勢者參加合適的運動休閒環境署長你有記得有這項目標吧有"},{"start":10277.415,"end":10297.775,"text":"有,那可是你有沒有看到你們的報告執行成果,你有讀過嗎?署長。報告委員,我們的確在伸張的部分或是在弱勢的部分,我們目前是透過學校體系希望能夠增加這樣的一個族群。那我們在給各縣市的硬體設備補助方面,我們同時也有在做這方面的要求。"},{"start":10298.396,"end":10300.217,"text":"請問你們有數字嗎?我們理最明顯的性別來講你們這個各縣市政府的統計裡面有數字嗎?他們使用這些運動休閒環境的"},{"start":10316.282,"end":10340.279,"text":"包委員這部分我們可能要回去再統計一下對嘛我看你們的報告裡面完全沒有回應你們的目標如果這樣子做運動政策白皮書的話那太容易了不用去看數字那如果地方都沒有給你相關的統計你如何知道你有針對弱勢族群增加合適的運動休閒環境非學校的也是您這邊管的嘛對不對對"},{"start":10341.88,"end":10370.021,"text":"所以是不是以後這個報告你要先有相關的數字統計那我們才能夠監督你否則我看完這一項完全不知道體育署關不關注這個然後這個目標到底有沒有要不然我們就是作文比賽了好不好那這邊是不是可以改善一下下一次我看到你們的執行成果表不要是這樣好不好那你們怎麼針對這個相關的弱勢族群使用的統計也給我一個書面報告好嗎"},{"start":10370.942,"end":10372.042,"text":"現在到6月沒有吧?三個月可以吧?"},{"start":10387.428,"end":10406.746,"text":"最後一個相關的這邊我要肯定體育署你們針對多元性別學生特別是裡面比較影響到運動公平性的跨性別有相關的事辦計畫出來我看了一下內容我想因為國際奧林匹克委員會"},{"start":10410.449,"end":10436.549,"text":"在110年11月就有公布最新的國際奧會基於性別認同及性別差異的公平兼容與無差別對待的框架用以維護多元性別參與運動競賽的相關權益所以我這邊先肯定體育署112年就跟上國際趨勢我仔細看的那個內容請問一下署長是不是裡面的內容跟標準都符合國際奧運的這個標準"},{"start":10438.991,"end":10450.562,"text":"基本上我目前的做法就是依循國際的總會他們的標準來進行那這樣非常好因為我並沒有針對現象依依茶隊就相信你們那我也肯定你們這麼做可是呢我們辦公室跟你們所知的時候"},{"start":10454.366,"end":10472.146,"text":"那就是看到你們有講到其實教練這個部分那是不是單向國際協會對於就是相關的就是性少數的選手參賽好像沒有一致的定義標準所以我就有點擔心到底體育署"},{"start":10472.546,"end":10474.667,"text":"請問署長一下您評估這三項大家都準備好了嗎?"},{"start":10489.537,"end":10516.584,"text":"報告委員在國訓中心的部分當選手有這方面的需求的時候我們在宿舍的一樓的確有這樣的所謂多元性別的友善的房間那教練的部分我們的確需要透過教育這一塊來協助那運動資源在準備這一塊我想這部分我們運科中心目前的成立我們這部分我們來努力那如果有不足的地方再請委員再給我們指導那這部分我們會再來因為國訓中心的執行長也是剛上任這部分我們會強力來要求謝謝"},{"start":10518.704,"end":10536.248,"text":"那我想最後的事情是因為我們看到你們給我們的回應就擔心你們沒有準備好那當然就是您剛剛表達的有些部分準備好有些還不足的那針對就是多元性別能不能夠就是公平自在的訓練環境然後以國際奧運的標準來做準備那我想國際的賽事那國際奧運應該會是最好的一個"},{"start":10544.13,"end":10547.071,"text":"教育部是我們所有性別平等部會裡面做得最好的希望體育署可以跟上好不好"},{"start":10571.221,"end":10571.881,"text":"次長和署長"},{"start":10602.742,"end":10607.807,"text":"臺灣選手在2020冬季奧運報復了2金4銀6銅的佳績在去年杭州的亞運成績也非常棒,多得19金20銀28銅一連串有很多大型賽事,選手優秀成績也讓各界"},{"start":10625.182,"end":10625.222,"text":"總統賴清德"},{"start":10651.174,"end":10674.546,"text":"選舉的期間他有提出來說要來成立體育運動發展部那他說每一年要投入200億的預算那未來可能我們就會升格為部了那我想先請教一下次長那後請教一下署長那現在我們對於馬上就要來升格成為運動發展部相關的原額預算的增加法規的修正現在準備到什麼地方"},{"start":10675.727,"end":10695.268,"text":"委員報告一下,我想體育署要升格為體育運動發展部,我想這個是准中等當選人的一個政見教育部當然也都持續的在關注,同時也會配合行政院的修法進度來配合辦理來,署長"},{"start":10696.974,"end":10723.245,"text":"我們現在針對我們要成立運動發展部那現在準備到哪裡了?報告委員因為總統還要到520才上任目前我們沒有接受到任何的指示有關於要做升格的這部分所以這邊是不是容許我們等到520之後由行政院這邊來做指示我們再來協助所以現在完全沒有準備目前在我們的行政體系目前沒有接受到這方面的指示那運動發展部會成立嗎?"},{"start":10724.107,"end":10740.502,"text":"目前我們沒有接受到這樣的指示所以你也沒有被徵詢到有沒有可能成為首任的這個運動發展部的部長完全沒有完全沒有有沒有期待沒有也沒有因為不是我的職權所以不是你的職權所以一旦如果成立了之後假設有徵詢你會願意嗎"},{"start":10742.967,"end":10770.735,"text":"如果國家需要的話我會盡力來對付很好很有gas那但是呢我想任哪一個這個職務倒是其次重點是在這個職務上我們能不能把這個事情做好這才是最重要的那我們來看一看就是體育改革大家都希望但是真的是把他升格了就是組織在到升格了之後那錢變多了之後就可以真的把我們的體育上很多的事情改革好了嗎我們來看一看我們大家都知道我們的數位部"},{"start":10771.635,"end":10794.694,"text":"當時數位部要成立的時候各界抱有很大的一個這個寄望那所以它整個總預算其實也是高達到218億那人員之多人員薪水之高可是我們看到上路來一年八個月了我就以這個數位部來看不管是在這個自動安全啦詐騙啦這個數位產業等等我們沒有看到任何的成績啦所以呢我以數位發展部希望"},{"start":10795.074,"end":10796.355,"text":"署長這個地方未來我們如果升格成這個運動發展部之後是不是能夠以數位發展部的這個狀況來引以為戒"},{"start":10806.107,"end":10814.691,"text":"委員會的這部分我們的確會如果今天上級有指示的話我們會針對各個層面我們來進行那個演繹那所以也會以速發佈一直以來的這些爭議為鑒是嗎這部分我們還是依照我們體育署目前遇到的狀況跟未來可能會遇到的狀況我們會自己來做這麼的演繹"},{"start":10826.557,"end":10842.892,"text":"我們就來看一下我們自己體育署的狀況那現在我們其實體育署我們每一年不管是體育署或者是運動發展基金國訓中心或者是運科中心的預算其實加一加大概也有135億左右那事實上我們說要投入200億但是135億其實當然有一段差距可是畢竟我們還是有100多億的預算可是這100多億的預算"},{"start":10851.42,"end":10862.728,"text":"有沒有用在刀口上有沒有用在保障選手上面這才是最大的重點所以我們來看一看這135億我們怎麼用的有沒有發揮到最大的效力我們的這個國手這個運動員要參加國內外各項大型的運動賽事"},{"start":10866.51,"end":10866.65,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10887.037,"end":10909.609,"text":"其實也是我們總預算大概一成而已也就是說你補助各單項協會的預算數是極少的那我們也知道其實單項協會跟選手是息息相關這是第一個第二個那就也很弔詭了我們補助的預算數其實已經少了怎麼會各我們協會的執行率還沒有辦法達到這個百分之百幾乎大家這個錢都是用不完的所以我們也產生了就是說"},{"start":10910.009,"end":10917.073,"text":"首長,能不能回答一下,什麼情況?報委員,我想在疫情之前,大概是疫情的期間,大概有執行率比較困難。但是在去年的部分,我想還有一個原因,大概是因為我們的黃金計畫這部分也"},{"start":10933.502,"end":10953.631,"text":"大力的來協助各個協會所以協會的部分他們把一些國家隊頂級的選手他們的賽事出國一地訓練都往環境計畫來這邊來做執行那這部分我們在今年的預算我們會來做一個微調那當然我們還是跟協會講他們在基層的潛用的部分還是要更投入而不是只有照顧我們的國家隊選手而已"},{"start":10954.532,"end":10969.706,"text":"當然,所以我想在這個部分我們都知道其實這個單項協會這個部分那怎麼樣照顧到選手怎麼樣去發展這個單項我希望未來的體育署將來可能的體育發展部我們要在這個地方多用心一點否則"},{"start":10970.427,"end":10982.064,"text":"我們不是說今天升格成為部這個成績以後體育所有的這個問題就會自然解決了也不是有錢就能夠解決了執行這件事情很重要所以特別在這裡提醒署長那另外署長還有次長我想我們一起來關心一下"},{"start":10986.61,"end":11006.975,"text":"其實我想我們的這個臺灣之光相關的這些國手啊剛剛有提到嘛這幾年其實在國外之戰績輝煌啊所以我們其實任何的團體或個人的這個選手出去比賽其實就類似像作戰一樣你知道也就是我們的戰士這樣子那但是呢我們來看其實我們的國家有沒有對待這些戰士有這個相對"},{"start":11008.795,"end":11010.236,"text":"本集的了解我相信您也一定知道"},{"start":11028.847,"end":11050.02,"text":"長長的在這個培訓的過程當中都是要拿家裡的錢然後為國家來這個比賽打球等等我覺得這個是他們真的非常辛苦而我們體育署其實沒有去照顧到的那甚至於我覺得在我們在體育賽事上不管他們是受傷甚至有更嚴重的事情發生我們除了一次性的服務不管是職業選手或者是這個球團"},{"start":11051.641,"end":11052.381,"text":"報告委員 這一部分當然也除了前一陣子的"},{"start":11069.026,"end":11069.047,"text":"好﹗"},{"start":11095.982,"end":11121.765,"text":"那那個署長我想請教一下那我們有沒有想要往這個方向走就是我們來研議來制定國家代表隊跟運動員權益保障專法我們有沒有想往這個方向走其實其他世界很多的國家其實大概都有這樣的一個專法來做更好的保障那你有做這樣的研議嗎我想在我們的國體法方面其實已經有相關的母法在是為我們往這個機制來制定不用去動盜修法因為法本身已經有給我們這樣的授權了"},{"start":11122.967,"end":11137.283,"text":"法如果有這樣的授權那我總是還在講我們怎麼落實去實施這才是最重要的好不好那否則其實有的時候不管是辦法不管是法不管是這個規則你制定了一大堆但是我覺得人為上面沒有很落實"},{"start":11137.523,"end":11137.823,"text":"巴黎奧運"},{"start":11155.48,"end":11183.428,"text":"連法國他國內的情報總局的局長都在示警說這個巴黎奧運有可能會變成恐攻的目標之一那事實上其實各國人士也都很擔憂啦那這一點我們有沒有掌握說如果我們今天在那裡萬一真的不幸發生了相關的恐攻事件我們怎麼保障我們的選手那包括怎麼保障他的安全或者怎麼樣去這個撤退他們回來或者跟大使館之間的連結我們有沒有在這個安全上面做更縝密的研究"},{"start":11183.948,"end":11211.509,"text":"報告委員我們分兩個部分第一個部分是我們在體育署派對出去參加國際賽會都會有一個緊急應變的這個會議來陸續的進行來制定相關的SOP那第二個是我們在這一次呢法國當地在這個奧會呢也給各個國家成立一個安全觀那個安全觀目前是由我們駐外館的調查官來預計由他來擔任因為他在當地他跟當地的調查站跟當地的警政系統都有他的人脈在我想這部分也是"},{"start":11213.03,"end":11213.09,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11229.433,"end":11229.713,"text":"吳春成委員"},{"start":11262.775,"end":11267.901,"text":"我們有請次長跟署長我們請次長跟署長部委好 次長 署長好今天最大的事情就是地震請問次長 地震跟體育有什麼關係"},{"start":11284.894,"end":11306.475,"text":"地震跟體育,基本上當然遇到地震的時候我們必須要緊急做一些應變上的處理,平常有運動平常有好的體育基本上應該是比較能夠更適應這樣的狀況。對,像有一支廣告片說地震為什麼還不跑,他就說腳麻怎麼跑,對不對?有記得有看過那影片嗎?"},{"start":11307.896,"end":11323.212,"text":"所以這需要全民運動對不對全民運動很重要那要請問次長全民運動我國全民運動是誰在負責是教育部我們體育署在負責體育署在負責OK好那我們再請這個署長我也好你覺得是你在負責嗎"},{"start":11328.772,"end":11336.018,"text":"這部分目前的確是我們體育署這部分那目前是交由全民運動組來協助這是一個組一個組在負責OK那個署長這個你下一頁"},{"start":11344.705,"end":11363.758,"text":"在這個3月11號的時候體育署有到我們的委員會來做報告當時我就提出終身運動文化的這個臨時提案然後這個你們3月20號就回文了就回文了這個6頁"},{"start":11367.715,"end":11375.301,"text":"6頁封面封底這一個就是目錄這扣除裡面的內容只是附貼110年台灣愛運動2.0的計畫幾乎一模一樣"},{"start":11382.277,"end":11405.013,"text":"那請問這是什麼意思報告委員這部分是我們全民主這邊我在314跟委員來拜訪之後呢那我回去也跟全民主這邊來做要求那的確他們當時時間是不太夠目前的進度大概說我請全民主要跳脫運動愛台灣這種概念因為特別在委員提到的在壯年這一件"},{"start":11405.853,"end":11423.021,"text":"這個世代它所應該要進行的事情我們希望全民主可以擺脫運動愛台灣2.0這個概念來做重新的一個思考那這部分他們的確也在腦力激盪當中那它包括您之前有提到我們在壯年運動會這件事情我們體育署該有的一些作為的部分我們也都在進行"},{"start":11425.082,"end":11434.728,"text":"我給你們一個月時間,你們很快的9天就回文了,那回文就是應該講的就是夫言了事,就是隨便應付一下"},{"start":11439.551,"end":11466.696,"text":"那對於這個,這個其實是對藐視國會喔就對委員所提出的質詢不當一回事那我不曉得這什麼意思就是好像我們本會不重要還是報告委員這部分我一定在強力的要求當中所以需要在進一步溝通那這一點再來提到全民運動這個一來我們的人口這個"},{"start":11469.909,"end":11491.115,"text":"這個高齡的運動比例只有大概三成但是我們的不健康愚民就臥床長達到八年以上這臥床跟運動應該有關係吧是解決臥床應該最好的不是長照吧應該是運動那這個是體育署的當者的責任嗎"},{"start":11496.636,"end":11508.264,"text":"這部分我們會再跟國民健康署一起來合作那你們以前有嗎?有在討論這事情嗎?目前我們還在自己先在做腦力激盪的用來腦力激盪?他們也不找你?你也不找他這樣?我們現在先找專大學者來跟我們協助因為這部分我們的同仁的確他目前一直還沒辦法突破"},{"start":11516.949,"end":11539.669,"text":"對一直沒有這個觀念一直沒有這個觀念就覺得我體育就搞好體育他那個他那個其實這個是運動是高齡社會最好的解方嘛台灣現在已經邁入高齡社會但是現在好像體育署剛才在談的全民運動這個目前似乎沒有列入到我們國家體育政策裡面好 下一位"},{"start":11540.908,"end":11553.489,"text":"那這個叫壯世代的運動其實在各年齡層當中比例最高他們非常希望運動 熱愛運動但是他們運動都在做什麼呢"},{"start":11554.75,"end":11576.06,"text":"散步 走路 健走其他的沒有什麼選擇都超到一半的人所從事的所以人民只能自求多福啦這麼龐大的 重在現在55歲上有800萬人他們每天都在走路這樣子那這個國家這個置之不管"},{"start":11578.081,"end":11578.421,"text":"市長有發現這是一個契機"},{"start":11614.465,"end":11632.339,"text":"目前整個的就是空中羅格式的空中羅格式就是沒有根嘛沒有根就是我們沒有全民運動那選九村就成為孤島我們能夠培養的招募的選手有限然後呢選手得了獎以後"},{"start":11633.881,"end":11649.037,"text":"沒有一個市場沒有市場沒有消費者那國手就會淪為孤鳥那整個的就是靠國家培養少數的精英沒有完整的這個就是一個空中羅格式的體育政策"},{"start":11649.998,"end":11675.508,"text":"目前看起來是這樣報告委員我們在從很多年前從打造運動島到後來的全民這個運動愛台灣我想主要的目的也是希望到我們的各縣市能夠鼓勵我們各個年齡層的人族群來參與運動那目前的確有在做但是呢的確它的比例呢還不如預期那這部分的確有這個共識是有這個共識那我們今年也是希望到村裡認證這件事情來"},{"start":11676.989,"end":11703.931,"text":"大家會看高齡者不僅是散步、跑步而已可以有這麼多彩多姿的國外很多的項目而且這個不僅可以發展健康產業、文化產業這是國力壯世代是一個很重要的關鍵那你可能會覺得你的經費不夠去跟衛福部要"},{"start":11704.811,"end":11719.958,"text":"衛福部的社福預算今年已經到了八千億了就是都做長照做什麼其實如果從積極的雅健康這邊把它撞起來的話事實上我們那邊是可以減少了國家的資源就可以重新分配是嗎"},{"start":11720.538,"end":11737.66,"text":"包括委員我想這部分對我自己來講個人來講當然不是錢的問題是我們的同仁這部分在腦力這方面他從來沒有接觸到這樣的觀念我很感謝委員特別提到這樣子的觀念帶給我們所以我們目前正在開始除了運動在台灣之外我們希望能夠更積極地把產業這一塊帶動起來"},{"start":11740.222,"end":11763.914,"text":"所以一起努力這個也不僅是這裡就是我們長期一直很侷限的我們的視野跟眼光那這也是剛才提到了這個壯世代擁有三分之二財富熱愛運動但是沒有產業沒有選項大家要怎麼樣的去賺不要什麼事情都靠國家什麼東西要國家養選手國家養整個市場是非常龐大"},{"start":11768.116,"end":11776.64,"text":"選手那個消費者是非常龐大的體育署我們的體育部要整個的形成一個產業鏈可以促成的這個循環的經濟"},{"start":11780.256,"end":11799.098,"text":"所以現在有一個契機來了就2025年世界壯年運動會在雙北舉行那其實上次我就在質詢這件事情也跟這個署裡面的結果署裡面的回應非常的冷淡那這件事情跟他們無關"},{"start":11801.984,"end":11803.984,"text":"這根本不是體育活動,這是一個同樂會。"},{"start":11827.053,"end":11851.085,"text":"這個就是世界壯臉運動會35項各縣市的合作明年也是進入台灣這個超高齡社會所以各縣市都非常重視這兩個議題交叉起來是做全民運動的最好契機來推廣所以請體育署要提出一個計畫跟雙北怎麼樣跟他們合作怎麼支援"},{"start":11852.586,"end":11855.668,"text":"接下來我們請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席我請教育部次長請次長"},{"start":11886.688,"end":11892.81,"text":"市長好今天早上有地震發生所以我要想要就我們教育部針對我們學校災情通報協助相關事項跟您簡單幾點詢問因為今天發生地震之後我們台北市我的母校金梅女中高三因為我們立學樓鋼筋裸露的情況所以高三今天是停課的"},{"start":11907.433,"end":11927.4,"text":"臺北市大安區民主11月中旬也是宣布停課那我們看到花蓮女中也是傳出相當嚴重的災情所以我想就我們過去我們都慣例都是有相關通報機制目前為止我們收到多少學校有災情的通報根委包括因為一島就來這個立法院這邊備詢所以我手上目前還沒掌握到這個資訊"},{"start":11928.78,"end":11954.847,"text":"不過基本上因為我們針對那個這個如果發生這個重大包含的地震等等這些部分我們都有那個那個消音通報的這個系統所以各個學校各縣市政府就會上消音通報的部分去報這個相關的這個災情那教育部呢也會統計這個災情的一個狀況當然也會看情況嚴重的部分我們國教署這邊也會去做一個這個實地上的一個所以我們都是有相關依照相關的機制在通報"},{"start":11956.767,"end":11961.05,"text":"今天還有發生的事情是在我們的臺北市因為捷運停駛雲湖縣甚至停駛到10點新北環狀縣更是發生有軌道樑柱位移所以到下班前可能都無法恢復通車所以今天人事總署有宣布說上班上課若有因災情導致大眾運輸暫停"},{"start":11983.985,"end":11984.385,"text":"我們現在授權給學校來處理嗎?"},{"start":12010.445,"end":12023.923,"text":"市長我是建議因為像今天有好幾則的錯誤訊息的發布讓大家以為說以為要停班停課結果後來發現是錯誤的訊息所以在災難當下是訊息的正確性"},{"start":12025.021,"end":12026.222,"text":"接下來我請體育署署長 次長請回"},{"start":12047.29,"end":12051.131,"text":"委員好署長我跟你一樣一直以來都很關心我們台灣運動產業的發展那其中我們職業籃球也是我們非常重要新興的職業運動聯盟所以我想請問我們現在台灣的職籃有兩個我們是在哪一年的時候我們開始職籃聯盟啦聯盟哪一年開打"},{"start":12069.177,"end":12075.762,"text":"抱歉我這部分哪一年我目前沒有掌握到分別我們在兩個聯盟分別在2020、2021年來成立來在當年的年底來開打是那為什麼要問這個問題呢所以代表我們現在台灣的職業運動是有包括籃球項目的是吧是"},{"start":12088.03,"end":12095.657,"text":"但是在我們體育署的運動統計每年年度出版的運動統計當中關於運動產業總共你們只有第87頁到91頁總共只有3頁就講完了運動產業為什麼呢仔細一看體育署的運動統計年報當中運動產業只有職棒"},{"start":12112.748,"end":12116.59,"text":"署長您剛剛說我們直籃聯盟都開打了直籃當然是我們運動產業重要項目怎麼我們體育署年度的運動統計年報當中完全沒有提到直籃的發展沒有任何統計數據呢"},{"start":12130.882,"end":12136.204,"text":"報告委員這部分我們在跟我們受委託的單位來要求他們做更正署長這個趕快去更正這個明年的年報還沒出來嘛這個趕快資料更新因為這個是我們政府的基礎資料基礎統計非常的重要會讓大家質疑說難道我們體育署對我們運動產業的專業性以及對於食物的了解度怎麼會跟現實落差這麼的大"},{"start":12155.451,"end":12159.215,"text":"關心這個事項,署長你也很清楚,藍協這段時間有引發了不少的爭議,那我認為有爭議其實正常,但是我們要如何來處理爭議,爭端處理機制,就是我們現在在談的重要,我們必須把它制度化。"},{"start":12173.692,"end":12177.014,"text":"我們要有方法來解決爭議但是呢在藍鞋最近召開的會員大會上面又發生重大的爭議第一個竟然藍鞋表達說未來我們的球員代表國家隊出席賽事的表現要依表現來懲處署長你認同嗎非常不認同那但是呢藍鞋當然還表達那是監視個人的其中一個發言不代表藍鞋的藍鞋絕對"},{"start":12202.851,"end":12220.245,"text":"沒有做成這樣的會議結論那當天的這個會議組長你有沒有去看過會議紀錄當天藍鞋的會員大會李市長有沒有出席沒有出席會議的主席李市長沒有出席藍鞋的會員大會可不可以召開"},{"start":12222.849,"end":12249.426,"text":"基本上按照規定是可以有代理啦但是我們還是希望按照藍鞋張誠的內規當理事長因為沒有出席的時候他可以來指派代理這代理不是隨便哪一個人都可以代理必須要是常務理事但是據報導指出當天會議上面主持會議的人是不是秘書長當天會議是由哪一位常務理事來代理主持"},{"start":12251.489,"end":12273.156,"text":"蘇長,你手邊有資料嗎?我們要不要去了解?當天是秘書長在做主持所以當天的會議主席是秘書長啊?秘書長能不能夠擔任藍協的這個會員大會的代理主席依照藍協自己的章程內規是不行的喔所以,蘇長,你們要去趕快了解好不好?3月24號開會到今天已經好幾天了你們趕快去了解齁"},{"start":12278.317,"end":12291.006,"text":"如果連會員大會本身會議的有效性都會引發爭端了引發爭議了難不怪球員難不怪社會外界對於藍鞋沒有辦法信任好 那署長接下來我就要講我剛剛講的我們有信任的問題那最重要的核心其實是來自於我們應該台灣的職業運動員"},{"start":12304.835,"end":12325.329,"text":"的權益的保障,真的到了應該要趕快改進的時刻了,署長。那這部分我們在昨天我們也是把藍血的代表,還有工會代表,球員代表,還有我們的足協的代表,大家找過來,開始教他們分享他們的這部分。署長,我們的直藍團體協約啊,今年會不會簽訂?"},{"start":12329.667,"end":12343.398,"text":"報告委員,我們今年會針對國家對選手的權益的部分由我們現在委託一位鄭大來的林教授來進行一個公版的部分但是針對細節所謂的兩雙方,因為他不是顧主跟球員的關係他不算是團體協議,他是雙方的協議,因為他不是顧主跟球員的關係但是呢,精神是一樣,那這部分談,我們正在主導他們談的期程,但的確這個談啊,需不需要"},{"start":12356.047,"end":12378.149,"text":"有公會﹖有當然﹖是不是需要有球員代表﹖一定要﹖要嘛﹖對﹖那昨天啊這個招開了一個藍協招開一個跨聯盟的9人小組藍協對外發布的聲明說這9人小組的代表名單是你們體育署建議的而署長請問這9人小組當中哪一位是公會代表"},{"start":12378.715,"end":12400.484,"text":"報告委員這部分主要是針對國家對他的整個徵召的制度的部分去做討論但是呢跟我們之前一個團體的協議就是兩不同的事件不同的事件但是我認為精神應當是一致的所以署長我希望你能夠再去研議也去聆聽各方的意見我們希望既然你是專案小組嘛"},{"start":12401.784,"end":12408.27,"text":"就是需要有成員的代表性我們希望能夠有代表性的球員來參與藍鞋這跨聯盟的小組針對主訓的討論好不好好 署長那再來要跟你討論的是我們運動產業的這個界線這個畫面上我們的外援啦啦隊署長你認為這屬不屬於我們"},{"start":12425.285,"end":12425.465,"text":"運動產業,應援啦啦隊,屬不屬於運動產業?"},{"start":12444.657,"end":12453.283,"text":"四屬是是還是不是廣義上或可歸屬那請問狹義上可不可以歸屬我這邊要告訴你的是運動產業的定義非常的重要因為過去我在地方議會你們體育署的對運動產業的定義會影響到我們地方政府對於我們運動產業每一年產值的評估甚至當出現爭端像台北市當年火爆團的這個事件"},{"start":12470.834,"end":12474.977,"text":"就發現說這到底是運動產業還是這個教育機關要管理的這非常多的模糊地帶會導致我們管理上面無所適從像我自己的街舞老師像很多街舞教室他們開教室之後要申請補助的時候文化局說不屬於他們的體育局說不屬於他們的教育局說不屬於他們的"},{"start":12491.488,"end":12510.643,"text":"但是要法規要管理的時候每一個單位都認為他們可以管街舞教室所以署長我希望我們這個對運動產業的項目的定定好定義要把它理清清楚我不能接受說你們這麼中央的運動最高全國最高主管機關回覆給我的我只不過詢問你一個項目它究竟是不是屬於我們"},{"start":12511.283,"end":12511.423,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":12540.639,"end":12542.24,"text":"吳佩儀委員林倩琦委員主席張偉林次長"},{"start":12563.508,"end":12588.059,"text":"市長,非常感謝在上次我們對於這個臺灣女足的這個協調會當中為女足的這個精進的整個系列做了一個非常具有里程碑的一個決議所以我們在今年2024年就會從6隊增加到8隊那當然2025年的目標就是再增加兩隊10隊嘛那在打世界盃之前呢我們大概希望能夠擴增到12倍"},{"start":12589.58,"end":12589.94,"text":"明年比賽的時候能夠有兩個隊進來"},{"start":12614.124,"end":12615.045,"text":"這部分感謝次長,次長可以回座了"},{"start":12633.9,"end":12647.426,"text":"接下來我們跟署長來討論一下未來的事情那署長 剛才其實我知道也有別的委員關心過所以我想請問一下我們針對2025年的Master Games其實我到現在也不知道該怎麼翻啦到底是大師大師的那個賽事呢還是這個壯年賽事"},{"start":12653.209,"end":12654.49,"text":"主辦單位寫出來的Mr."},{"start":12654.49,"end":12661.834,"text":"Games,體育署這個部分不知道有哪些作為是讓我們在明年那個賽事雙北舉辦的這個Mr."},{"start":12661.834,"end":12671.781,"text":"Games能夠有好的成績,而且能夠有好的口碑?目前我們分兩部分,一部分當然是報名的部分,我們就是在我們的國際組這邊也協調我們也幫"},{"start":12675.363,"end":12700.678,"text":"雙北舉辦了幾次的會議來找各個協會甚至我們現在也希望他們各個協會來協助來找其他鄰近國家的這個他們的國家的單項協會這部分來鼓勵他們的選手能夠來報名參加那在國內的部分我們目前的體系是希望透過一個腦力激盪來看看怎麼樣去鼓勵我們的縣市能夠針對他們縣市裡面的民眾來做一個比方說培訓營我們來給他補助來鼓勵他"},{"start":12703.82,"end":12728.986,"text":"主要的重點還是在於我們的民眾趁有這個機會能夠來投入這個運動來養成一個規律運動的習慣好的 謝謝署長目前至少這樣一些作為至少我們這些壯世代的不會覺得一直被歧視那我這邊也提出一些建議我也希望國訓中心或者是運科中心現在感覺上比較強健不知道在2025年"},{"start":12731.286,"end":12737.41,"text":"這個賽事當中是不是也可以有一些角色那因為您剛才講到我們會您這邊已經開始運作期待其他國家一起來參加這個賽事那我之前的這個質詢也感到很很遺憾那今年的賽事今年在澳洲的Master Games我自己的項目沒有我沒有機會去參加但是呢我期待明年這個我是一定會報名的所以在"},{"start":12755.579,"end":12776.071,"text":"明年這個賽事我期待不僅是很多國家的人來參與那我也很期待因為我們是地主國嘛那在這個賽事裡面我們如果能夠有很好的成績那我想這個不僅是對城市空間有很大的影響那對於整個全民體育應該也是有很大的一個正面的衝擊讓我們能夠再往更好的方向走"},{"start":12776.471,"end":12776.631,"text":"主席"},{"start":12802.517,"end":12803.797,"text":"謝謝委員提點我想這部分我們也因為今天第一次聽到我想我們就來後續跟兩位執行長來討論看看能夠什麼樣新創的想法來進行"},{"start":12822.102,"end":12838.063,"text":"好的謝謝署長所以就請把這個部分列入那如果可以集大家一起來討論那我想應該會有更多的腦力激盪你就不用一直滑腦筋其實有很多事情要處理了還要處理這種content的內容或許我們可以找多一點不同面向的人一起來討論"},{"start":12839.384,"end":12842.767,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來我想有個單項協會的問題是不是可以跟署裡面這邊做個討論因為在我們參加單項協會有時候為了精進自己的一些技術所以我們也很想知道規則或者是更專業的一些看法那我講我的項目我先不講我的項目好了"},{"start":12860.703,"end":12879.962,"text":"就是那個在單項協會資訊上的公布我不知道署裡面這邊有沒有一個概念因為我經常在比如說我現在已經拿到某一項的C級教練跟C級裁判那我當然就想要再往前能夠拿到B級甚至到A級的國家裁判可是我就發現有一些協會他那個公告"},{"start":12881.103,"end":12895.556,"text":"這個B級或者是甚至A級的這個教練的這個時間常常是我看到了我經常在查詢但是常常我查詢到了他可能要把過期了要不然是這個禮拜週末要辦那或者是都沒有"},{"start":12895.916,"end":12909.026,"text":"但是你就發現協會說他今年辦過了所以這個部分我可以先請教請問協會那個署裡面有沒有請協會在公告這些資訊上是不是有一定的日期或者是有某一些規定能夠讓這個資訊能夠充分透明"},{"start":12912.292,"end":12932.203,"text":"這部分我們其實過去是有要求協會要設立專區,比方說教練的專區或裁判的專區,那這部分落實我們這邊再來做進一步的了解。我想這部分,我想您的聲音我也聽到了,那這部分我們再來要求協會,因為網站的製作設計很多元,每一個協會的網站的確他們的邏輯都不太一樣,但這部分我們再來強化。"},{"start":12933.434,"end":12959.966,"text":"好的謝謝署長所以或許是不是可以規定他們某一些項目比如說現在要考B級了那當然B級之前還有一些見習那如果協會這邊也可以協助所謂見習其實我們自己當時也很主動的直接問協會可是呢協會有的時候當然他很專業知道每一個地區的一個美感有的時候你就不好加入那有的時候你就沒有機會加入所以你要考B級可能這些條件都要符合有的時候還很困難"},{"start":12960.586,"end":12960.806,"text":"目前是至少一個月"},{"start":12977.995,"end":12979.898,"text":"先前也跟署長這邊聊過是不是我們現在國家的風帆基地就在澎湖了嗎"},{"start":12997.499,"end":13021.162,"text":"目前澎湖有一個算是小而美的一個國家的一個算是他們當地一個訓練基地那也蠻多國家的帆船隊會去那邊集訓是是是那我知道他們好像提出了一個這個國家帆船封帆基地的一個想法那好像在目前有這個想法但是內部他們還在討論當中是是那這個預算有了嗎據他們告訴我還沒有提案所以還沒有這筆預算"},{"start":13021.923,"end":13022.423,"text":"如果他們現內有一個這樣的共識的時候我們一定會來支持的"},{"start":13050.111,"end":13050.211,"text":"主席"},{"start":13080.491,"end":13103.278,"text":"其實我發現很多體育人常常在媒體上出現所以或許署裡面可以多一些視角然後為他們退役之後的一些路開一些系列然後讓他們或許可以展開另外一個不同的人生那從他們在過去這麼優越的體育項目當中我相信他們的人生第二春應該可以有更多的可能"},{"start":13103.738,"end":13132.212,"text":"報告委員,我們在國訓中心的確也有定期開一些課程來吸引我們的國家隊選手來參與,比如說烹飪啊,或是其他的演藝啊,或是相對性的。那在學校的部分,其實我們目前在大專校院,體育相關科系的老師們其實也有意識到這個危機啊,就是說我們的學生其實畢業之後,不見得都能夠往運動產業去,所以我們也在鼓勵學生能夠有雙休啦,輔系啦,或這個分流的部分,這部分我們的確在大專校院也注意到這個問題了。"},{"start":13133.212,"end":13148.184,"text":"好的,那就請體育署這邊再多投入更用心一點然後讓這些選手不僅在比賽的時候那退役之後也有很好的出路是好,謝謝那接下來不好意思我要問一下那個園民專班那是不是縱規司今天有派員是吧?"},{"start":13151.979,"end":13153.56,"text":"現在這邊有沒有一些相關的資訊可以提供給本席了"},{"start":13174.497,"end":13190.849,"text":"是,跟委員報告,上次委員詢問之後,部裡面有提供一份書面的說明回復委員辦公室,那後續...那個,但是是針對我講的這兩個嗎?就是就業的情形跟這個他學習的項目還有在職場上的一個關聯性"},{"start":13193.308,"end":13207.455,"text":"是,那後續是不是我們再跟委員辦公室這邊再來做進一步瞭解,如果...好的,就至少這兩項嘛,就是說瞭解人民專班他在這個執行上的一個效度是是,那如果有不足的部分我們會再來補充值好的,謝謝"},{"start":13208.556,"end":13227.536,"text":"那最後我就一個呼籲那個國際司跟可能仲規司是不是應該要開一個會針對本席在3月5號也提到的這個國際專班依照國際專班的規格設計原名班所以在原住民的部分我期待不是一直大家一直對我們的這個印象是某一種樣態所以"},{"start":13229.378,"end":13230.019,"text":"接下來我們請張瑞雄委員4分鐘"},{"start":13262.58,"end":13269.374,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們教育部林次長還有我們體育署署長是次長跟署長謝謝"},{"start":13271.395,"end":13279.438,"text":"市長,你在2010年的時候,體育署一種叫做體育委會,那時候訂了一個振興棒球運動的一個計畫,裡面也訂了一些不同屬性的國際賽,並且加以分級。我們在2019年,體育署就拉了棒協跟職棒聯盟去簽訂了合作的一個協約書,明確化了整個國際賽的層級,一級賽事的一個主訓賽,都是由職棒聯盟來負責。"},{"start":13300.785,"end":13328.115,"text":"那棒協呢就專注於二級賽事跟各級的一個國際賽事的一個主訓參賽本席倒是這樣認為啦早上聽了那麼多委員我相信署長也有聽到啦籃球也應該有相應的一個規劃一級的國際賽當然是派最頂尖的球員去參加如果是二級的國際賽甚至是瓊士盃選訓是不是就應該以年紀比較輕的球員為主來當成一個培養接班的一個目的所以本席一開始我先請教署長好了"},{"start":13329.395,"end":13333.319,"text":"是否可以在短期之內邀請藍協及三個聯盟做好討論整個國際賽分級的制度來定出我們整個籃球國際賽分級國家隊主訓的模式?昨天藍協他們針對國家隊這個議題的九人小組的成立他們其實會中已經有初步"},{"start":13351.698,"end":13354.801,"text":"藍斜這幾年的表現,如果你在看,你在做內行的,給你拍分數60分60分喔,你的標準太稀奇了,你這樣又60分"},{"start":13371.516,"end":13373.958,"text":"我認為大家能否聽到委員在問的聲音呢?那真的要努力啦,我們說一句實在啦努力的空間真的實在是喔,不然這實在是,你是整個我們的籃球空前的一個盛況,可是整個"},{"start":13391.723,"end":13407.629,"text":"談到整個國家隊的一個主訓的一個模式我想就一定要提到上次保險的一個問題了就上個月我們那個一起的公聽會裡面目前有一個初步的一個解決的方案就是說根本上要解決這些問題其實你就是要往這回到團體協約去簽訂署長一國一國啊體育署有沒有主動去找藍協跟各個聯盟公會一起討論團體協約的一個簽約"},{"start":13413.891,"end":13428.977,"text":"有,那在昨天主要是第一次的預備會議啦,就是說我們也請中華職棒來提供他們過去的經驗,來以及我們政大也會林教授來協助法律專家,來告訴他們這個事情怎麼談,如何談,期程怎麼抓。阿當時可以簽嗎?"},{"start":13430.418,"end":13433.98,"text":"您不夠積極啦,你像我早上聽你的答詢,你一直講說那不屬於是僱傭關係,所以不採用... 的確是因為他這個法律專家告訴我們一個"},{"start":13455.471,"end":13462.117,"text":"嚴格講起來 但是雙方還是有協議只是說不叫團體協約我告訴你 我也是法律專家我也是法律專家不一定要有雇傭不一定是承攬跟雇傭的關係才可以去簽團體協約或者說是參在協議你就有上對下 那本來就是可以啦我們一起來促成把那個心態給轉變啦我們用這個精神去做不是要跟你爭辯啦大家都希望他能好嘛我看早上問的都不同黨派啊是"},{"start":13482.834,"end":13490.583,"text":"大陸你這個整個運動這個一個國力嘛不管是誰來執政這個部分齊省我們有來主導啦是這個你真的好嗎不要拖啦他們在拼你我們開什麼玩笑我們是給你們搭橋樑耶你們是屬住耶"},{"start":13499.471,"end":13500.832,"text":"藍協對外說明6月會想辦法讓國際法來修法通過"},{"start":13520.303,"end":13526.97,"text":"其實不是這樣啦其實行政院的那個版本已經送到立法院等待內政委員會的一個排審啦從藍協宣稱要跟兩位洋將談規劃以後上週末又多了一位夢想家的洋將有意來規劃多了這麼多的一個選擇其實球迷五味雜成"},{"start":13539.042,"end":13547.286,"text":"期待：又怕被落空啦 這個很怕期待又落空 亞洲各個國家都積極去爭取規劃 這個都已經是常態了本席也不斷在提醒我們體育署 儘早去延伸規劃相關的一個政策可是到現在我真的還是沒有看到啦 本席看到體育署跟攔血都是被動在等待那個修法 我也算不上你的心態"},{"start":13561.232,"end":13566.137,"text":"不夠積極啦,我認為有更多方向可以主動去做。你說,你去看,你看亞洲,通常有幾種方式,連黎巴嫩跟敘利亞,他們就用論見計酬的方式,訂定出這個出賽的一個合約。日本,他們就靠健全聯賽,政府沒有給規劃任何補助跟薪水喔,但透過聯賽的一個制度啊,增設特殊的資格,球隊就有外掛。"},{"start":13585.075,"end":13587.437,"text":"求員就變成高薪提高規劃的一個誘因。"},{"start":13602.91,"end":13603.07,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13625.12,"end":13626.782,"text":"待會是2013年合會為例,你來看那1個月2萬的美金阿到培訓期間15000個月美金阿未來規劃人數如果增加的話你會繼續再補助嗎?"},{"start":13638.049,"end":13643.691,"text":"報告委員這部分我們不會全部補助我們還是依照國家隊的需求不是每一位想要規劃我們全部都會來進行這樣加油這個啦我這個以前國中都太高級了我現在在關心哪級啦就是看不下去啦你那個齁國際外還沒有修高專規劃難度還在但是有一條書薰的規劃可以走你看你現在藍鞋的國際賽事分級每一年辦全世界就是一級賽事啊"},{"start":13661.798,"end":13664.019,"text":"張雅玲委員張委員執行完畢之後我們就立即處理臨時提案"},{"start":13691.84,"end":13691.98,"text":"張委員好"},{"start":13702.631,"end":13728.327,"text":"次長跟署長好那因為我一直都非常關心這個運動產業的一個發展那我想我就直接來切入主題就是說我們其實在這幾年我們一直在看今天我們這次看到那個體育署的報告發現就是說我們的運動產業好像很強調這個軍政底碎跟黃牛票還有防堵機制那其實我蠻訝異的因為其實我們應該還有更多事情可以做也因為我們有更多事情可以做所以我們去年去中國還有日本去考察了"},{"start":13728.807,"end":13731.468,"text":"運動產業發展條例第15條中央應該來協助直轄市或法人設置運動產業園區現在已經113年了這麼多年了我們有地方政府來申請過嗎?"},{"start":13758.264,"end":13774.989,"text":"跟委員報告一下目前大概應該包含我了解包含有那個屏東的棒球園區啦國際棒球園區還有台中的足球園區都有跟教育部申請前瞻的經費補助我們現在只有兩個是嗎只有兩個是不是那我想我們"},{"start":13777.049,"end":13792.418,"text":"我們還是應該來積極的鼓勵縣市政府來做這個申請因為我們從去年去考察的時候我們也發現中國的一些模式在調整從競技運動改成是全民運動那他們的模式內容也非常的多元"},{"start":13793.999,"end":13797.202,"text":"為什麼只有兩個縣市?我們有沒有檢討過原因是什麼?是法規太嚴還是誘因不夠?我們有沒有相關的一些檢討方案?"},{"start":13814.721,"end":13830.022,"text":"這個部分基本上因為包含了那個土地的所有權、管理權都是在地方政府所以可能地方政府本身要去做一些的評估適合的發展運動項目然後中央的部分會配合地方那麼一起來做一個補助跟建制處理"},{"start":13830.871,"end":13833.794,"text":"這個部分我們再跟縣市政府再來做一個努力看看是不是還有其他縣市政府有這樣的意願"},{"start":13851.715,"end":13871.043,"text":"好,那我們會後繼續討論這一題再來就是說其實我們也去日本我們也去日本考察了這個日本的奧林匹克學院博物館國訓中心、運科中心還有這個璞河紅磚足球俱樂部還有Red Tokyo Tower裡面的一個包含電競動脈AR的虛擬實境等等跟運動主題有相關的一個景點"},{"start":13877.405,"end":13897.231,"text":"這一次我們在看到那個考察報告也有提到說就是說這個我們其實應該有一些產業化的思維要有這個企業導入要有完善的清訓體系更重要的是政府要來協助場地才有辦法來去支撐我們整個運動市場的一個需求"},{"start":13898.823,"end":13927.41,"text":"那我也發現說就是說這兩次的考察裡面也提到了都提到了青少年我們看他的遊戲項目其實也都非常符合青少年的一個需求那如果我們今天要發展運動產業基本的市場人口是很重要的嘛那我們是不是應該要從小開始培養才有辦法去讓他們從小開始一直持續的關注這件事情才有可能去支持我們的國家的這個運動產業所以我想請教署長我們考察的時候是有提到就是說一些發展的方向那目前"},{"start":13928.19,"end":13952.947,"text":"我們有沒有針對這個產業的落實上面有一些具體的規劃呢報告委員目前我們在過去主要是著重在人才培育的部分跟實證場域就是說今天有一些業者他們像科技業者他們產生的一些儀器啦一些可以使用者端優化他們的運動的這個體驗的部分我們用在場域裡面去做實證那這部分目前是在做但是針對"},{"start":13953.627,"end":13974.701,"text":"整個產業鏈的部分我們的確還需要努力因為我們今年行政法人成立之後運科中心成立法人之後我們來這部分我也是請執行長這邊來協助跟產業界能夠更密切的結合特別在新創的部分來協助好那因為上次我們其實也有討論過這一題所以我們這個也是為後持續來關心那個進度好不好因為上次有提到會跟經濟部來持續的學習"},{"start":13977.063,"end":14004.099,"text":"那再來就是說因為剛剛提到場地一個非常重要的地方所以我們其實在去年也核定了優化全民運動與賽會環境計畫那我們其實花了三分之二來打造一個安全的運動環境那我想就是說運動有非常非常多的好處對大人對小孩來說都是非常重要可是我也發現我們現在做的這些場地的形態其實非常千篇一律大部分就是籃球館啊籃球場啊桌球場啊游泳池啊大概就是這些項目可是我們也發現奧運的賽事"},{"start":14006.36,"end":14034.172,"text":"其實是隨著時代與時俱進他們其實越來越推進所謂青少年現在覺得好玩的東西大家可以看到就是說從東京裡面有什麼運動攀岩那接著還有衝浪那把2028年的洛杉磯奧運還有什麼邀請美式足球所以其實都是越來越多元化的去發展那我們是不是也可以有更多是屬於像這樣子的設施呢讓青少年可以去追求挑戰然後追求卓越超越自己"},{"start":14035.225,"end":14039.347,"text":"報告委員．目前我們的公建計畫當然是由各縣市來提供他們的案子來做競爭但是我這邊也主動也詢問一些縣市是不是比方說針對滑板"},{"start":14054.273,"end":14056.294,"text":"但聽起來數量還是相對來說是蠻少的因為我們蓋的場館其實數量是不少的可是你剛剛講的就只有2個而已"},{"start":14077.284,"end":14096.989,"text":"這個青少年的運動對小孩來說非常非常重要就是說因為他們需要因為現在大家都知道嘛他們有3C的文明病的問題啊可能網路生意的問題啊其實非常需要戶外的空間那包含在2030年的衛福部的兒童醫療與健康政策建言書也有提到現在的場地實在是太少了交通不便離家又遠所以他們其實非常難抵達"},{"start":14098.169,"end":14126.795,"text":"然後這些也會造成他們近視的問題所以呢我想要問一下就是說我們現在呢能不能有再更積極的做法例如說我的建議就是說我們現在可不可以做一個研究案去了解青少年到底需要什麼樣子的休憩空間或是運動的場館我們可不可以來做這樣子的研究然後來規劃相關的計畫去跟縣市政府一起來溝通一起來討論讓他們有更多的往這個方向去前進呢"},{"start":14127.315,"end":14129.296,"text":"那我想問一下就是說在這個我們這個計劃案這個這樣子的研究我們大概是什麼時候開始啟動呢?"},{"start":14150.605,"end":14156.235,"text":"從找到人然後提供寫計畫案出來到簽成過大概需要通常要1到2個月的時間"},{"start":14159.076,"end":14185.22,"text":"好那這個部分我們就大概兩個月之後我們就來持續的關心那我也希望今年可以相關的研究案出來我們就可以給地方一個清確的指引因為只有靠因為我看到你們給我們的回覆是說我們要考量各地的需求不同啊各地的政府應該要充分的了解啊而是一直只有等地方的話真的這件事情是做不到的齁那而是兒童的健康的問題已經是迫在眉梢了這是必須要積極的作為那再來最後一件事情齁就是說遷足計畫啦齁因為我們非常關注足球的運動這個發運動場地的問題喔我們"},{"start":14188.641,"end":14189.263,"text":"之前簽讀計畫已經盤點了41個場地可是呢我們現在呢"},{"start":14193.635,"end":14220.917,"text":"申請的是18個其中有4個都還是過去就已經有在使用的那似乎離我們要增加更多的場地這個目標還是很遠那我也知道剛剛那個署長也有提到很多的場地在學校裡面所以我們現在到底有哪些具體的做法要來要求學校來把這個場地給開放出來不然我們剛剛一直在講說要有場地要有清訓體系可是就是沒有場地這件事情就是不會發生"},{"start":14222.298,"end":14247.412,"text":"這部分在各個學校的校長大概是第一個是免責的部分可能需要協助他再來就是他假日或夜間的管理人員這部分的薪資這部分可能在也要需要縣市以及當地的運動產業業者能夠一起來沿上看怎麼來協助那的確除了校園之外我們希望在校外在公園的部分我們現在找縣市希望跟他們談我們有找他們來座談說看看"},{"start":14248.112,"end":14264.183,"text":"在其他公園地方能不能做一些比較屬於小型的這樣運動空間的設立那這部分我們正在進行當中我想問一下那這樣子我們在學校這個空間裡面已經有盤點出來有多少場地了嗎有多少學校的場地目前有盤點嗎因為我們講的是千足嗎目標到底"},{"start":14264.383,"end":14269.588,"text":"這部分麻煩也是盤點讓我們來看一下有多少場地然後還有具體的做法我們要如何的去解決剛剛學校那些問題好不好那這個相關的計畫是不是大概也可以在什麼時候可以提供給我們"},{"start":14283.763,"end":14298.702,"text":"我們是不是可以三個月的時間我們來把這個書面報告但是我們剛剛提到了這個我們請專大徐來幫我們做在外的研究研究可能需要半年的時間可是研究是另外一件事情我們現在講的是進到學校這件事情我們大概用三個月的時間來回覆給委員"},{"start":14299.343,"end":14299.863,"text":"臺北內湖、桃園"},{"start":14330.484,"end":14330.564,"text":"主席"},{"start":14350.831,"end":14360.567,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來我們就是來先處理臨時提案今天有委員提出臨時提案共計有10案我們請宣讀"},{"start":14362.472,"end":14389.742,"text":"立案有鑒於運動是國力產線鑒於520就職在即政府部門應該操前部署才推廣運動共同方向前進並完成特提案要求目前體育署應即刻盤點計劃體育發展部的未來組織架構人力預算法規升格後重點施政項目目標等於3個月內提出計劃積極辦理準備已符合國人期待提案人 洪孟凱 聯署人柯志恩 羅廷偉 林倩琦"},{"start":14390.342,"end":14411.045,"text":"第二案國民體育法第21條法令規定商業性質賽事應給選手出賽費而立法精神出賽費並非獎金因此目前有些賽事並無提供明顯違反身為中央主管機關應督導該符合法令規定明明所有未來商業收益賽事都必須支付出賽費"},{"start":14411.906,"end":14428.261,"text":"請您3個月內提出具體要求作為﹐並保證未來不再基建選手應得費用。提案人 洪孟凱克支案聯署人羅廷偉 林倩琦國內值班曼鄉35年﹐然假求事件仍在某些不肖分子蠢蠢欲動下﹐"},{"start":14430.283,"end":14448.277,"text":"展開整體產業生態,建立防堵機制以維護國人對於運動產業信心,更是體育署核心工作。要求體育署於1個月內針對此提案邀集會議,並於3個月內針對已有防堵基金提出精進作為。尚未成立者訂出具體時間表"},{"start":14449.918,"end":14477.005,"text":"達成進度提案人宏孟凱聯署人柯志恩羅廷偉林倩祺第4案有建議國際田徑賽事的比賽場地均為合成橡膠跑道目前國訓中心的跑道已被更換為PU跑道請維持試運主場館使用合成橡膠跑道並於日後將主訓中心跑道更換為合成橡膠跑道以維護國家田徑選手權益提案人林倩祺羅廷偉宏孟凱"},{"start":14477.745,"end":14496.78,"text":"第1有建於2025年世界壯年運動會 即將於明年舉辦．目前對於提升國人參與試壯運方式．除了降低國人報名費外．僅有在交通運輸系統上投放廣告等措施．恐怖化有效提升國人的參與．"},{"start":14498.401,"end":14518.059,"text":"對中生運動文化的注意顯有不足．而要求體育署階級與雙北市政府研議相關協助視壯運參與者之運動課程．並於2個月內提出書面報告與立法院教育及文化委員會．而無存成連署人科之間孔孟凱林見其第6案"},{"start":14518.96,"end":14533.722,"text":"有鑒於私校退場停辦持續發生．私校退場條例條文規定似乎未真完善．有關列為專案輔導學校．儼然成為確定宣告結束對象．再次立高等"},{"start":14534.443,"end":14562.832,"text":"高級中等以上學校退場條例未在進行嚴寧完成修訂條文之前應針對現階段專案輔導學校提出積極輔政因應措施與行政作為提案人林倩琦聯署人葛如軍博廷偉第7案有鉅於國家代表隊運動員與國際上為國爭光但現行我國對於國家代表隊及職業運動員的保障未爭完備也要求教育部應於3個月內"},{"start":14564.492,"end":14592.048,"text":"提出國家代表隊及運動員權益保障專法送本院審議以維護國家代表隊運動員之權利與義務提案人萬美玲玲 倩琦 洪孟凱 柯之恩 羅廷維 葛如軍第8案有鉛與此次巴黎奧運處於夏季加上法國為了環保選手村並未裝設冷氣空調設備為了避免選手受到高溫影響比賽原請教育部比照外國代表隊"},{"start":14592.968,"end":14608.266,"text":"為巴黎奧運中華台北國家代表隊提供移動式水冷氣或相關降溫的設備以維護選手身心健康提升賽場競爭力提案人萬美玲林倩琦羅廷偉克之恩葛如軍第9案"},{"start":14608.806,"end":14627.225,"text":"有鑒於現有部分私校與教師因契約內容明定轉職離校需支付賠償軍事約定．建請教育部應嚴寧將離校賠償相關不合宜事項．若不可約定事項提案人林倩琦葛如君陳培瑜第10案鑒於誠信為運動產業經營之根本"},{"start":14630.928,"end":14652.708,"text":"查目前政府實際投入與假求防制相關預算僅僅調相關法制教育宣導計畫或國中軍費200萬元．並要求提署日半年內與國內球員工會共同會商以2025年上路為目標．完成相關球員工會自主提撥防堵性脫支獎勵機制與要點"},{"start":14655.49,"end":14667.937,"text":"實質對整體職業運動防堵作出貢獻．已交政府對於假求防制之決心提案人吳佩奕﹑莊瑞雄聯署完成培育﹑李一錦 郭益晴宣布完畢好 我們第一段第一段委員有沒有需要做補充說明的沒有 那"},{"start":14681.54,"end":14681.7,"text":"黃文凱委員"},{"start":14697.415,"end":14721.605,"text":"有關成立體育發展部的部分是總統當選的一個政見不過總統當選要520之後才會正式上任所以如果三個月的話就扣掉這幾個月大概就比較那個所以我們希望是520之後新的總統上任之後來做一個相關的研議所以我們需要這個六個月的時間 以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":14724.063,"end":14751.796,"text":"因為其實這是第10屆的時候我們捷運委員就已經有提出那我想這是共同大家要來努力的目標方向我同意給6個月的時間了好不好確實要做規劃那我們也已經有提出這個組織運動發展部的一個組織法的一個這個立法那我們也會送到這個交融文化委員會我們也希望行政部門可以進一步提出相關的一個這個專法的一個共同討論以上"},{"start":14753.37,"end":14753.39,"text":"紅夢凱委員"},{"start":14763.53,"end":14784.066,"text":"那第二項的部分的話也是建議是不是我們提案人跟連署員的委員的部分是不是能夠同意倒數第二行因為這邊提到並保證未來不在基建選手應得費用那我們建議因為這個是屬於單向協會的這個部分所以是不是那個保證這兩個字是不是可以改為落實這兩個字以上說明謝謝"},{"start":14788.047,"end":14801.946,"text":"其實落實跟保證都一樣重點是不要再積欠選手應得費用身為主管機關應該要更積極來去處理那我先講三個月內要提出具體的作為"},{"start":14803.027,"end":14831.738,"text":"就是今天你的報告我其實本席是不滿意的就出場費不是說讓協會跟選手去喬我想出場費真的沒得喬啊你可以討論是說費率到底多少但是沒有喬說什麼我這一場可以付那一場不用付好像很多委員都有質詢過我們稍微也質詢了我同意改成落實兩個字但是重點我的前面是在前面三個月內要提出具體要求作為不能讓以後還有發生積欠選手應得費用的事情再發生"},{"start":14834.801,"end":14851.658,"text":"文字修正後通過第3案次長我們配合辦理照案通過第4案是林憲熙委員提案但次長"},{"start":14853.288,"end":14867.947,"text":"文字上我們建議是做一些修正那包含了第一行那個左訓中心因為我們現在叫國訓中心所謂修正的國訓中心第二行也是一樣那第四行的部分的話也修正了國訓中心"},{"start":14869.729,"end":14895.843,"text":"最後兩行的部分建議修比較大的文字就是請體育署那個文字請維持試運會那個部分的文字建議修正為請體育署輔導高雄市政府依使用者需求評估研議試運足場館跑道面層材質與奧運規格相符然後最後一行的部分並召開專家會議研議"},{"start":14901.132,"end":14925.892,"text":"國訓中心,我們這個部分也跟我們天安人林委員大概也有做了一些意見這樣的交換所以林委員,林委員同意,那我們就是修正後通過來我們第5案次長第5案的部分的話是倒數第二行我們建議是不是2個月能夠修正為3個月來請委員能夠支持,謝謝那吳孫成委員"},{"start":14930.387,"end":14939.094,"text":"他2個月修成3個月要以專家學者專業單位要先開,不要閉門造區"},{"start":14944.281,"end":14946.262,"text":"提出積極後面兩個字的部分 建議修正為輔導因應措施 以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":14969.155,"end":14969.315,"text":"我們看第7案"},{"start":14995.697,"end":15022.995,"text":"那第7案的文字的建議修正就是倒數第4行保障那麼把後面的文字做一個刪除不足然後接到第3行原要求教育部應於3個月內演繹提出那後面國家代表隊及運動員權利保障那個專法的部分我們建議是不是能夠修正為機制然後說明報告送本委員會以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":15023.655,"end":15049.841,"text":"好 萬文委員完全不接受我想這樣子因為早上那個署長其實有提到說因為我們現在有國民體育法但是我們看到國民體育法其實只是授權體育署去訂立相關的辦法那既然我們也願意來訂立相關的辦法去保障選手的權益啦那我們既然要這樣做那我們把它制定專法把這一項我們大家都共同願意做提到法的位階其實沒有什麼不對啦"},{"start":15052.041,"end":15069.228,"text":"如果說你對於我現在要求說我們三個月把它提出來那事實上其實這也很需要很急那你對於三個月假設是有意見在這裡我覺得我們可以再來研議但是如果說你沒有辦法做這個專法這件事情只能用什麼機制啊這種含糊帶過的其實本性大概沒辦法接受"},{"start":15069.588,"end":15069.648,"text":"關於商業保險"},{"start":15087.027,"end":15088.488,"text":"提到法的未接絕對是只有好處沒有壞處可以更保障我們的這個"},{"start":15101.733,"end":15102.033,"text":"這一點我是沒辦法接受"},{"start":15121.454,"end":15128.243,"text":"那個署長我萬委員的題目上面是三個月嚴議提出嚴議提出好不好"},{"start":15132.622,"end":15158.059,"text":"他是演繹提出啊所以你沒有在辦法你不需要在他的專法的這個地方去做因為他只是演繹提出啊他裡面你還是有很多的討論空間嘛好不好那個謝謝主席把他特別點出來所以其實本席本來看到就是體育署跟我們的溝通啊連演繹這件事情他們都不願做我覺得非常的寒心啦所以這一點我們是沒有辦法退讓的為了保障我們選手啊運動員的權益啊我是希望我們按照本席的這個臨時提案來辦理"},{"start":15159.98,"end":15164.021,"text":"這個主席我們是很支持我們體育署要就國家代表隊還有運動員權益我們一定要來支持但是要用辦法還是上升到專法我覺得這個要去討論尤其是我認為體育署對於我們現行到底這些球員需要什麼樣的權益我認為體育署的掌握"},{"start":15177.805,"end":15177.945,"text":"好 發言委員委員"},{"start":15206.758,"end":15223.705,"text":"我的意見跟剛剛配議委員一樣我覺得體育署應該要把如何保障這個部分去研究清楚其實我個人是認為外媒林委員主張的專法非常好但是如果不是專法只要能夠強而有力的行政命令的辦法我也覺得OK"},{"start":15225.506,"end":15226.587,"text":"以上當然我尊重署長的判斷"},{"start":15241.325,"end":15262.976,"text":"好 署長我們講是不管是專法還是剛剛委員所提到的研議這個部分裡面你是不是可以做通盤來做一個分析然後告訴我們到最後你覺得用哪一個方式其實最能夠保障因為大家最後的目標都是在保障我們的運動員的權益那萬美玲委員對於他們這樣子研議這樣子的一個部分 OK"},{"start":15265.543,"end":15282.552,"text":"本來我就是講演繹啊,就是要專法啊我們不接受機制這件事情啊本來就是要他演繹啊就是維持用專法這兩個字啦但是剛剛有提到了幾個文字的修正是不是就同意我們的文字上的修正"},{"start":15285.012,"end":15306.341,"text":"文字的修正要怎麼修正包含剛剛提到倒數第4行保障不足然後原要求教育部因應三個月研議但是這裡沒有問題啊對對對 是的還有本院的部分就反正送本委員會對 其他文字是不是同意我們修正以上說明 謝謝這不用刪掉 為什麼要刪掉要求教育部後面都不要動"},{"start":15311.508,"end":15314.231,"text":"後面的那個本院是不是改成本委員會?好"},{"start":15334.966,"end":15355.242,"text":"修正後的文字是從倒數第一環開始對國家代表隊選手之權利義務及權益保障不足委員要求教育部應於三個月延預提出國家代表隊及運動員權益保障專法送本委員會以維護國家代表隊運動員之權利與義務謝謝"},{"start":15360.844,"end":15364.205,"text":"文字修正後通過第8案第9案建議修正文字是倒數第二行建請教育部研擬兩個字改成評估"},{"start":15388.069,"end":15409.098,"text":"那個文字上面做一些修正,把嚴禮變成評估嚴禮跟評估到底差別在哪裡?你們這教育部現在是到底對你們有什麼任何的壓力嗎?對啊,你就照案通過嘛,幹嘛搞嚴禮跟評估是怎樣?那他們回答是什麼?"},{"start":15416.237,"end":15429.485,"text":"主要的部分的話因為這個裡面的話涉及到那個那個學校跟教師的這個契約的部分因為這個是屬於那個是私立學校"},{"start":15440.012,"end":15441.153,"text":"我們尊重我們原提案人我們林婉允的意見"},{"start":15470.134,"end":15470.294,"text":"第10議案"},{"start":15495.202,"end":15496.483,"text":"主席、各位委員、請次長"},{"start":15528.084,"end":15545.666,"text":"政委好 社長好 辛苦了今天早上我們正好在教育文化委員會要準備遲詢簽到的時候發生大地震 這個花蓮是最嚴重"},{"start":15546.929,"end":15566.449,"text":"那這個花蓮女中目前所知道的花蓮女中的校舍嚴重的歸類損壞這個是真的是非常嚴重還好沒有倒塌這個是花蓮女中的一個校舍損壞的情形"},{"start":15568.582,"end":15587.601,"text":"這個部分因為這個是國立的所以是教育部主管的所以除了這個教育部主管的這個部分之外包括這個地方政府縣立的無論是國中國小這個不曉得目前你們的資訊如何"},{"start":15589,"end":15609.23,"text":"跟委員報告我想在地震發生之後我們都有那個通報校門通報系統所以各縣市跟各學校的部分都會進到我們校門通報系統來做一個通報那我們會整體了解各個學校的一個災損的一個情形如果是屬於這種比較重大性的災害的部分會同會勘然後對於運用那個重大災害的相關的一個這個"},{"start":15616.614,"end":15616.834,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":15640.509,"end":15648.473,"text":"運動選手最基本的從國小到國中、高中到大學"},{"start":15650.451,"end":15678.785,"text":"這個整個到後來整個GU的選手的一個協助都是要基本上GU的體育人才的就學跟深愛輔導基本上都已經比較制度化了都在進行之中但是對於這個我們GU的這些選手的權益像這個就業的部分"},{"start":15679.793,"end":15692.459,"text":"我很多的朋友、我們這一代的這些體育的老師普遍都認為現在的就業的輔導不以往"},{"start":15696.602,"end":15713.801,"text":"我這個年代的一個情形所以這個部分也是還是要去做一個通膨的去做固然都有在做比如說你這邊的以這個有關國訓中心以及運動選手就業輔導辦法"},{"start":15717.044,"end":15728.809,"text":"但已基於運動選手轉任運動教練工作已經輔導81位優秀運動選手成為教練然後這個再甄選31名優秀運動選手成為教練這樣的機制當然還要繼續做但是就因為這個是已經"},{"start":15744.076,"end":15744.556,"text":"馬委員我想"},{"start":15769.929,"end":15778.84,"text":"不是所有的體育的老師都是正式的我想目前的確有體育老師有專業教練也的確有代理代課老師的存在"},{"start":15779.934,"end":15782.255,"text":"時間的關係,是不是把這個正式老師的跟業聘顧的"},{"start":15806.107,"end":15806.607,"text":"我們請次長跟署長"},{"start":15837.153,"end":15856.955,"text":"市長好市長好我想今天我們在討論是完善國家代表隊選手的權利義務那我想大家都很重視而且呢我看不分黨派的委員都很支持那尤其剛剛有通過那10個提案裡面幾乎大家都很願意支持但是我覺得不是只有國手"},{"start":15857.575,"end":15880.032,"text":"國家代表隊的選手需要照顧如同你們的業務報告裡面剛剛鄭委員提到的對於各項的運動選手的照顧我們要落實那我就必須再提一點一直以來都不受到重視2011年那時候我們都在談學生選手的參賽沒有保險的保障"},{"start":15880.732,"end":15900.328,"text":"受傷了怎麼辦?抱歉,台語說回家自己顧五歲。那個時候2011年就要討論這個所以後來我知道我們現行的體育署有一個補助辦法它補助辦法規定的是什麼?次長我跟你說就是樓地板的保障"},{"start":15901.4,"end":15921.145,"text":"要求單項協會有賽事的時候投保公共意外責任險而已而這個公共意外責任險的保障是非常的低而且理賠的細目是有很多因素是被排除在外的尤其是我們在比賽學生選手比賽的時候受傷"},{"start":15923.001,"end":15923.601,"text":"事實上都沒有收到保障"},{"start":15945.049,"end":15962.04,"text":"我再跟你講除了這個運動賽事的主辦單位不同而有不同的保障保險還差很大以外我剛剛把你盤點出來我這個只是抓個大項喔各個單項協會你們要求的樓地板就我剛剛講的公共意外責任險"},{"start":15962.841,"end":15977.107,"text":"在辦全國性賽事的時候就是這樣一張保單那很多我們的學生選手在參賽的熱身也好參賽的當時都沒有受到保障第二個你沒有規定綜合性的協會比如說高中體總大專體總體育總會等等有比較好一點點除了公共意外責任險之外還有意外險還有團體傷害醫療險但是我也必須跟次長您說"},{"start":15989.992,"end":15997.301,"text":"公共意外責任險加上意外險加上團體傷害醫療險即使是有比較好一點點還是讓我們參賽的選手"},{"start":16002.21,"end":16002.25,"text":"主席"},{"start":16023.459,"end":16046.848,"text":"保障都不夠都要回歸到選手個人及他的家庭來承擔所有後續的醫療跟復健的負擔這個我覺得不合理啊因為沒有學生選手哪裡來的國手我們今天在談國家代表隊的選手國家代表隊的選手都都是從基層學生選手一級一級的晉級"},{"start":16048.996,"end":16076.377,"text":"不斷的去參加比賽他要奪得名次他才有積分他有得獎他才有出頭天的一天他才能夠成為國家代表隊的選手可是我們對基層的學生選手的保障是如此不足所以我們看到在現實狀況下很多的學生選手他還沒達到他的目標的這個國手之前他可能提早結束了他的選手生涯"},{"start":16078.561,"end":16082.363,"text":"我覺得這對台灣的體育實力還有對國手的培訓來講是一大傷害所以我有召開記者會也謝謝陳培鈺委員還有羅美玲委員還有莊瑞雄委員跟蔡議員有跟我共同提案我們國體法的修法"},{"start":16095.071,"end":16114.39,"text":"不只要把國家代表隊的國手的一個權利義務的保障納入法我還提議我們應該要給我們各級學校校隊的學生選手要給他們周全的保險制度我希望能夠把這個保障入法所以呢請次長跟署長支持好不好"},{"start":16116.394,"end":16144.364,"text":"謝謝何委員我想除了剛剛提到辦理一些賽事的部分有公共責任險或團體保險之外對於學生的部分如果具有學生身份本來就有全民健保還有包含學生團體我都知道問題是保障嚴重不足我們高強度的單項運動的選手跟國手他們參加比賽可能受到的傷害不是我們的全民健保或是學生團保可以支應的"},{"start":16145.504,"end":16164.351,"text":"所以針對委員的這個提案的這個部分那基本上體育署這邊也會那麼來做先期的一個研究跟評估你先期的研究跟評估要多久然後會比照看看這個是不是學生團體保險不能夠用政策保險不過這裡面因為涉及到的包含了這個學生運動員的定義還有包含了這個他跟那個"},{"start":16170.913,"end":16171.113,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":16188.294,"end":16189.175,"text":"謝謝何委員接下來我們請王宏威委員"},{"start":16220.912,"end":16248.898,"text":"謝謝主席 請次長來 請次長次長 剛才我有聽到那個我們的鄭天才委員講到花蓮女中那這個校長說他是民國79年的一個校舍所以呢希望要全部的重建所以我也希望說第一個能夠協助花蓮女中重建因為否則的話這樣的校舍即便你在修修補補也非常困難"},{"start":16249.838,"end":16250.278,"text":"是的,我想第一個"},{"start":16271.987,"end":16294.537,"text":"針對學校的災情我想我們會依照學校的災情來給予全力的協助跟支持那如果是補強或者涉及到重建的部分這個部分我會看優先這個絕對家長完全不能放心那他下個禮拜上課怎麼辦這個的部分基本上我們國教署這邊會"},{"start":16295.717,"end":16321.934,"text":"可不可以趕快回答一下我時間有限你們不會到現在還沒有任何的這個因應對策吧跟委員報告目前這棟校舍的話它是屬於比較低度使用的大概是辦公室還有諮商中心輔導室等等這一些的所以明天下週學生還是同樣回學校上課嗎它沒有影響它這一棟教室是比較是低度使用的它別的那個教室上課是沒有問題"},{"start":16323.115,"end":16350.399,"text":"好,如果你們經過整個的對,我覺得一個當然安全是第一但是受教權也非常重要不要因為這個校舍的損毀然後影響學生受教權那另外我在這邊也具體的要求就是呢現在你們應該立刻今天下午事實上就可以做通令全台灣的各縣市教育局要全面的檢修老舊的校舍"},{"start":16351.039,"end":16371.688,"text":"所以我想次長也是從在台北市我過去在議會裡面就曾經提出我們台北市有非常多的校舍超過50年超過50年大家知道他已經去可以去文資會去報歷史建物我們台北市的校舍已經高達20%到25%的校舍可以直接去文資會去報歷史建物已經到了這樣的一個程度"},{"start":16380.032,"end":16392.106,"text":"所以我們現在每一次每次碰到這樣的強震我們最擔心的就是校舍的安全那因為明天明天就開始休長假所以"},{"start":16393.208,"end":16410.744,"text":"要求你們可不可以立刻的通領全台的教育局要求他們全面的來檢視那該修的修真的應該要去真的我認為就該改建我以前在議會裡面我就一直推動我說你50年以上不要被"},{"start":16411.745,"end":16413.126,"text":"所以你們立刻要讓各縣市政府來報災情"},{"start":16439.202,"end":16457.281,"text":"因為今天時間有限因為是地震像我剛剛講的議題尤其我們台北市大家看到什麼建中洪樓因為它已經是古蹟了它可以比較好的維護我們有好多的已經70年80年它也沒有去報歷史建物然後它的檢修地震的檢修可能是10年20年之前"},{"start":16459.303,"end":16459.403,"text":"羅智強委員"},{"start":16485.441,"end":16492.63,"text":"劉許廷委員．劉許廷委員．劉許廷委員鄭振淺委員．鄭振淺委員．鄭振淺委員嚴寬恒委員．嚴寬恒委員．嚴寬恒委員張祺凱委員"},{"start":16510.694,"end":16515.258,"text":"上個禮拜六很巧我跟署長一起去看中華職棒第一場在大巨蛋開幕賽我先問一下那一天我們在看的時候就有人講說那個大巨蛋搖晃比較厲害對不對今天又第一天到底大巨蛋那個防震地震這個安不安全"},{"start":16538.422,"end":16566.32,"text":"報告委員,我想台北市體育局他應該昨天有大概說明一下,對外說明啦,說當天比賽的時候因為可能因為風大,所以有感受到一些放鬆,那是正常的,對,他說是整個鋼體它是結構是正常的現象,那目前還沒有得到消息,今天還沒有,可能要去看一下,好不好,最重要那麼多人在裡面看齁,那個安全跟防震一定要注意,好不好"},{"start":16567.98,"end":16589.706,"text":"我們終於有一個大的室內巨蛋了美國職棒大聯盟今年海外的開幕賽開幕戰就是在索爾的高瓷天宮巨蛋教育部跟體育署這邊能不能去爭取一下美尼還是奧尼能不能去爭取一下美國職棒大聯盟的海外開幕戰有沒有可能來我們的大巨蛋"},{"start":16591.874,"end":16591.974,"text":"報告委員："},{"start":16612.642,"end":16637.209,"text":"棒球賽事是非常重要的,世界十二強,你隊對不對?你們跟中職那邊準備好了嗎?那部分中職棒鞋都已經談好了,所以這部分在進行當中。怎麼幫忙?大家眾所矚目對不對?你一邊的重要的賽事是經典賽,你看古尼多少人心都跟著這個經典賽走。你隊這個十二強非常非常重要。"},{"start":16637.349,"end":16637.649,"text":"齊凱琪及其他人"},{"start":16659.462,"end":16662.703,"text":"我看到你們對這個球場的幫忙跟補助好像比較多的在目前是在職棒的我是說在嘉義卡隆這個球場"},{"start":16687.765,"end":16689.707,"text":"教育部跟體育署這邊會做什麼樣的幫忙嗎?蘇秉穎 你的所在我們怕直棒阿"},{"start":16707.529,"end":16728.126,"text":"是,但是就是我們以目前自己的組場各個球團的組場這邊優先開始所以你剛剛講的很重要就是如果他們有需求我來跟你講好不好我等一下就回嘉義了我會把這個嘉義人力提出來我就找你了那至少有兩個要請你幫忙有一些職棒的這個賽事能不能到卡龍的這邊去打第二個"},{"start":16728.866,"end":16741.387,"text":"加藝人很喜歡棒球這不只是國球 加藝人這卡弄精神棒球這個原鄉啊那在選手跟教練培訓跟照顧上面這邊能多幫忙一個是場地 一個是人才"},{"start":16742.373,"end":16769.791,"text":"班委員這部分我們會後我來找中職的秘書長來談一下我們這回來配嘉義是因為我們這個運動不是只有棒球看起來有點城鄉差距對不對你在推動這個全民運動有感覺嘛對不對特別是嘉義縣市或者南部很多地方是有弱勢的另外嘉義最近很積極在推動這個基層的高爾夫他們現在在這個西區的全民運動館那邊要規劃一個基層高爾夫的室內練習場"},{"start":16771.653,"end":16793.302,"text":"市長跟我去還是署長跟我去?市長我們好久不見了你跟我去在高雄去看嗎?不是只有基層高爾夫球場棒球這一塊嘉義的這個運動風氣是很盛的黃明慧這方面做得不錯啦市長跟署長有空陪我去看一下好不好對嘉義縣市多幫忙好謝謝"},{"start":16797.329,"end":16803.754,"text":"好 謝謝接下來我們請邱志偉委員 邱志偉委員 邱志偉委員 伍麗華委員好 謝謝 我們時間4分鐘 謝謝好 謝謝主席 有請次長好 請次長"},{"start":16822.397,"end":16836.532,"text":"市長好今天很高興我們是一起來關心我們的體育選手那我們常常說其實國家的體育政策不應該以培育奧運金牌選手為目標應該是希望能夠打造出培育奧運金牌選手的環境"},{"start":16838.434,"end":16856.81,"text":"那在這個當中其實一直以來我們很關心的就是這一些學生運動員他們其實之所以會退場有的是因為經濟因素那很多呢其實是因為運動傷害那我們常關心的就是說能不能夠更多的運動專業教練進到校園來"},{"start":16859.432,"end":16863.494,"text":"能不能夠有更多的運動防護員進來那能不能夠有更好的一個場館設備讓他們在更安全的環境那今天我們很高興就是談到關於我們這個傷害的一個保險那因為時間的關係從這個揚州杯南蘭保險的爭議我是想說直接來談一下我的訴求"},{"start":16884.522,"end":16913.717,"text":"我是希望說我們不要只專注在這些國家代表隊這些參賽選手也希望呢我們的法令規定能夠再去擴大關照我們所有的學生這一些運動員因為我自己來自教育現場非常的可惜很多頂尖的孩子他其實是到國中就流失一部分然後到高中就流失更多那這對國家來講並不是很好那我是希望說我看到"},{"start":16915.057,"end":16934.411,"text":"關於這一次的這個保險爭議的公聽會教育部這邊有提到的長期目標就是會會同金管會參考高中以下學生及教保服務機構幼兒團體保險條例去研擬體育選手的政策保險所以我希望有關體育選手政策保險的部分"},{"start":16935.111,"end":16940.952,"text":"除了要參照我剛才講的那個保險項目也希望能夠考量體育活動賽事對運動選手造成的高風險調高保障的金額並且參考農民健康保險軍人保險的設計規劃體育選手退訓退役之後的給付那此外呢也希望說在專法中退明定妥善運用運動發展基金跟相關預算來推動體育選手的政策保險"},{"start":16963.797,"end":16981.503,"text":"那對象呢希望不要只集中於國家代表的選手那各階段的體育選手那包括他在各階段的訓練比賽的環境中所遇到的風險也能夠請體育署去參考美國的重大傷害保險計畫優秀學生運動員失能計畫這些機制來規劃各階段體育階段的選手所需要的保險項目那再來就是"},{"start":16990.346,"end":17016.639,"text":"我國雖然目前有國民體育法第23條的規定但是欠缺完整的運動員保險機制那希望體育署就商業保險不足的地方來訂定全體運動員保險專法那並針對上述意見我是希望說就保險的內容保險的對象保險的裁員去研議一個妥適方案那兩個月內希望有一個書面報告跟本席說明以上"},{"start":17017.579,"end":17033.29,"text":"跟委員報告一下,針對委員所提出的意見事實上這個禮拜一,我們政書長大概就已經有邀請保險局還有包含學者專家有一起開會做數目上的意見交換目前來講,大概是商業保險的部分不太可行因為社交保險公司他們會有保險的一些風險"},{"start":17043.097,"end":17043.217,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":17073.054,"end":17078.99,"text":"希望半年我們拿到的報告是研議很完整的好不好是的好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席謝謝吳委員 謝謝"},{"start":17081.414,"end":17106.69,"text":"好 我們謝謝吳委員接下來 許曉欣委員 許曉欣委員 許曉欣委員羅明財委員 羅明財委員 羅明財委員黃國昌委員 黃國昌委員 黃國昌委員陳廷輝委員 陳廷輝委員 陳廷輝委員好 我現在特別給我們剛剛已經跳號過的劉許廷委員3分鐘時間 好嗎謝謝"},{"start":17114.013,"end":17114.174,"text":"體育署長"},{"start":17122.343,"end":17144.945,"text":"最近大家都關心我們中華隊男籃的成績兩場比賽69比89106比53算慘敗當然就很多檢討的聲量我先請教體育署長你覺得我們應不應該在乎國際賽的成績你是在乎還是不在乎我在乎 非常在乎你非常在乎對不對我今天把話講在前面因為有些國家不見得在乎比如說我職業賽做得非常好"},{"start":17145.365,"end":17168.139,"text":"好到我可以不在乎國際賽的成績我也是一個籃球大國這也是一種路線但既然體育署長講在乎那我們就要有在乎的樣子你同意這樣說法嗎是好那這個我們的南南隊長提出了很多的指教跟建議嘛包含集訓陣容不齊全組訓時間過短失能保險規劃球員等等的問題那這些東西喔我們今天在這個簡單的時間來做一下救教我先問喔這個賽事喔衝突協調的問題啦以亞洲盃資格賽來講是2月22號打到2月26號對不對"},{"start":17172.842,"end":17185.399,"text":"中國大陸CBA他的賽程怎麼調整你知道嗎這部分沒有掌握到他年前就停賽一路停到資格賽打完才復賽日本B聯盟你知道嗎他們怎麼處理他們也是提前會11號休賽到31號韓國聯賽2月16號休賽2月28號可是我們呢"},{"start":17191.406,"end":17207.172,"text":"我們目前就是因為有這樣的問題,我們的踢聯盟並沒有因為這樣而停賽,所以我們在昨天也請藍鞋成立一個9人小組,針對未來長期集訓這個賽制、賽程的安排,把球團跟藍鞋聚在一起。這是我今天講的,你當然可以講說這是藍鞋要處理的事情,每一個體育者都講說有協會跟職業賽會,就讓他們去處理就好。"},{"start":17214.335,"end":17234.603,"text":"那我就去問體育署的角色是什麼我們就是來主導這件事情要他來依照大家的期待來做這個安排所以這個九年教育是我們這邊來主義的組長我提醒你啦這些協會的狀況就是一般基層的不管是運動的從業人員或者是球迷對於協會的很多指教很多意見這也不是只有在籃球嘛我們之前講過足球的問題這已經不是一天兩天的事情了"},{"start":17235.063,"end":17257.788,"text":"所以說你不能頭痛一頭腳痛一腳嘛發生事情才來處理沒有意思嘛對不對你照理來講你早就應該做這樣的事啦然後讓這事情再發生不是很糟糕嗎第一個你體育署的角色到底是什麼具體來說你能夠做到哪些事情你會做一個書面報告好不好好第二個問規劃球員的問題現在看起來是用這個書勳的方式個案處理對不對可是我們規劃球員有助於增加國家隊戰力嗎"},{"start":17259.429,"end":17269.455,"text":"系統化的處理跟制度化的處理你有沒有配到方案?藍球這部分絕對有幫助那我們來跟內政部初步的溝通那他們當然高專的部分他們目前行政院版是說為兩年他們現在正在送院準備要來做審查而書訊的部分我們也請教那當然內政部目前的回應是說這個書訊的部分不能隨便使用所以要制度化處理嘛你有多大把握?多久時間內可以處理完?"},{"start":17283.763,"end":17285.224,"text":"這三個部分會後提供書面資料可以嗎?好,沒問題,謝謝主席喔,不好意思"},{"start":17312.546,"end":17339.77,"text":"好謝謝那我們今天我們所有的登記質詢的委員都已經發言完畢另外有羅志強委員、楊瓊英委員、陳廷輝委員提出書面質詢那關於今天會議我們做如下的一個決定我們報告及詢答完畢委員所提的書面質詢或是相關的資料我們都是列入記錄並且刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或是來不及答案"},{"start":17340.05,"end":17342.932,"text":"請相關機關盡數以書面來答覆報告委員會我們今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":17377.5,"end":17377.961,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"}]}},{"id":"15784","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15784","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685bb5d33df7eda7d074f7cda26dcb539f83be8d109af184be44825104e8eea56745ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「人工生殖法條文修正草案」公聽會）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-03","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-04-03T08:31:22+08:00","end_time":"2024-04-03T12:20:00+08:00","duration":13718,"影片長度":"03:48:38","委員發言時間":"08:31:22 - 12:20:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032802","type":"公聽會"},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":55.195343750000006,"end":57.119093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2017.47096875,"end":2078.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2081.24159375,"end":2089.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2091.5184687500005,"end":2092.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2092.6659687500005,"end":2093.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2096.0915937500004,"end":2097.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2100.09096875,"end":2107.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2107.8365937500002,"end":2111.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2113.16909375,"end":2114.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2114.9072187500005,"end":2117.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2118.11346875,"end":2118.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2119.69971875,"end":2121.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2122.7372187500005,"end":2126.4834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2127.4453437500006,"end":2128.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2130.5672187500004,"end":2130.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2131.2422187500006,"end":2138.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2139.03846875,"end":2142.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2143.8815937500003,"end":2154.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2156.4872187500005,"end":2157.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2159.23784375,"end":2160.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2162.3934687500005,"end":2165.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2165.7684687500005,"end":2167.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2170.4765937500006,"end":2172.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2172.95721875,"end":2174.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2176.83846875,"end":2180.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2181.7490937500006,"end":2182.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2183.0653437500005,"end":2186.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2187.19971875,"end":2187.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2189.2078437500004,"end":2192.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2194.18596875,"end":2195.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2196.7340937500003,"end":2200.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2201.52659375,"end":2202.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2202.6572187500005,"end":2207.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2208.15846875,"end":2208.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2209.98096875,"end":2213.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2215.44846875,"end":2216.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2216.3259687500004,"end":2219.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2221.91159375,"end":2226.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2227.5478437500005,"end":2228.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2228.66159375,"end":2231.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2231.8172187500004,"end":2235.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2237.4872187500005,"end":2238.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2238.66846875,"end":2241.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2242.8365937500002,"end":2243.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2244.62534375,"end":2246.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2247.4265937500004,"end":2248.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2249.33346875,"end":2250.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2252.6240937500006,"end":2254.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2255.05409375,"end":2261.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2262.4284687500003,"end":2264.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2266.98471875,"end":2267.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2274.39284375,"end":2274.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2276.9747187500006,"end":2277.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2278.37534375,"end":2279.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2279.33721875,"end":2279.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2279.8434687500003,"end":2280.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2280.6365937500004,"end":2280.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2280.83909375,"end":2280.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2280.8728437500004,"end":2283.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2286.0534687500003,"end":2288.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2290.74471875,"end":2292.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2294.33909375,"end":2294.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2294.3728437500004,"end":2294.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2294.96346875,"end":2295.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2295.0309687500003,"end":2295.2165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2295.2334687500006,"end":2297.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2298.20346875,"end":2304.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2302.35471875,"end":2302.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2304.17721875,"end":2304.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2304.9365937500006,"end":2329.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2331.8015937500004,"end":2334.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2337.0497187500005,"end":2356.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2366.24346875,"end":2367.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2375.9297187500006,"end":2376.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2376.1490937500002,"end":2378.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2378.0390937500006,"end":2378.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2378.91659375,"end":2378.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2378.95034375,"end":2379.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2379.0009687500005,"end":2379.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2379.01784375,"end":2379.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2379.43971875,"end":2385.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2387.69159375,"end":2391.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2392.46721875,"end":2393.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2395.16721875,"end":2396.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2400.41534375,"end":2400.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2400.43221875,"end":2401.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2400.4490937500004,"end":2401.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2401.9678437500006,"end":2401.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2401.98471875,"end":2402.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2413.3584687500006,"end":2417.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2429.6259687500005,"end":2431.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2429.9297187500006,"end":2433.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2432.2078437500004,"end":2435.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2433.8953437500004,"end":2442.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2442.83909375,"end":2443.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2443.5984687500004,"end":2445.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2445.4040937500004,"end":2446.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2447.4459687500002,"end":2450.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2449.47096875,"end":2454.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2453.62221875,"end":2453.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2453.9765937500006,"end":2459.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2457.7734687500006,"end":2458.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2459.73096875,"end":2466.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2467.0378437500003,"end":2470.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2471.29034375,"end":2474.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2474.5809687500005,"end":2505.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2474.59784375,"end":2475.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2505.34409375,"end":2508.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2508.53346875,"end":2509.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2509.5459687500006,"end":2515.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2516.05971875,"end":2517.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2517.62909375,"end":2525.0878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2520.70034375,"end":2521.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2525.23971875,"end":2531.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2531.0615937500006,"end":2533.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2541.08534375,"end":2542.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2542.82346875,"end":2570.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2570.38034375,"end":2581.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2581.8047187500006,"end":2615.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2615.7234687500004,"end":2624.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2624.8359687500006,"end":2685.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2685.95721875,"end":2697.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2697.6178437500002,"end":2718.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2718.74534375,"end":2719.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2720.01096875,"end":2727.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2728.2965937500003,"end":2740.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2740.81784375,"end":2787.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2788.3209687500002,"end":2808.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2808.30096875,"end":2808.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2808.8747187500003,"end":2817.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2824.23096875,"end":2829.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2829.9853437500005,"end":2832.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2833.69784375,"end":2834.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2835.2840937500005,"end":2837.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2838.86159375,"end":2843.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2843.2322187500004,"end":2849.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2849.83034375,"end":2853.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2854.06596875,"end":2857.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2857.9978437500004,"end":2858.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2859.3984687500006,"end":2862.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2863.0772187500006,"end":2863.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2864.17409375,"end":2865.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2866.0809687500005,"end":2867.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2867.5322187500005,"end":2868.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2868.88221875,"end":2869.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2869.9959687500004,"end":2871.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2871.53159375,"end":2873.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2873.9278437500006,"end":2877.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2877.4715937500005,"end":2878.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2878.75409375,"end":2879.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2880.39096875,"end":2882.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2882.4159687500005,"end":2884.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2884.84596875,"end":2887.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2887.51221875,"end":2889.8240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2889.9590937500006,"end":2892.1190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2893.60409375,"end":2900.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2900.2022187500006,"end":2902.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2903.3240937500004,"end":2907.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2907.9140937500006,"end":2908.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2909.2978437500005,"end":2910.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2911.3565937500007,"end":2913.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2914.0565937500005,"end":2918.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2918.47784375,"end":2920.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2920.84034375,"end":2924.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2925.3965937500006,"end":2928.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2928.4678437500006,"end":2931.1172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2932.41659375,"end":2934.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2934.5597187500007,"end":2935.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2935.7578437500006,"end":2938.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2938.8965937500006,"end":2939.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2940.2128437500005,"end":2942.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2942.5078437500006,"end":2944.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2946.1697187500004,"end":2950.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2951.26596875,"end":2953.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2953.8815937500003,"end":2955.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2956.44659375,"end":2958.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2959.29846875,"end":2960.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2960.90159375,"end":2962.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2963.9053437500006,"end":2965.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2965.86284375,"end":2967.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2968.07346875,"end":2970.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2971.21221875,"end":2975.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2975.80221875,"end":2978.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2979.2109687500006,"end":2983.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2984.23971875,"end":2987.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2988.0028437500005,"end":2991.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2992.1709687500006,"end":2995.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2995.63034375,"end":2997.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2997.8915937500005,"end":2999.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2999.79846875,"end":3005.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3005.31659375,"end":3008.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3008.9109687500004,"end":3013.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3014.0915937500004,"end":3016.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3016.47096875,"end":3019.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3019.4072187500005,"end":3021.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3021.8034687500003,"end":3025.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3025.6003437500003,"end":3025.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3026.12346875,"end":3033.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3049.5290937500004,"end":3063.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3064.46346875,"end":3080.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3081.8447187500005,"end":3085.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3086.3672187500006,"end":3090.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3090.8897187500006,"end":3100.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3101.2340937500003,"end":3106.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3107.05596875,"end":3110.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3110.4140937500006,"end":3112.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3112.65846875,"end":3118.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3118.6490937500002,"end":3120.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3120.7753437500005,"end":3122.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3122.59784375,"end":3125.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3126.1415937500005,"end":3128.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3128.52096875,"end":3131.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3131.47409375,"end":3133.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3133.6847187500007,"end":3140.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3140.9072187500005,"end":3143.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3143.5565937500005,"end":3145.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3145.6659687500005,"end":3147.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3147.55596875,"end":3152.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3153.3103437500004,"end":3161.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3161.5284687500007,"end":3165.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3166.3378437500005,"end":3174.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3181.62659375,"end":3193.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3193.72596875,"end":3198.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3198.85596875,"end":3207.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3208.20471875,"end":3213.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3213.55409375,"end":3215.8322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3216.1697187500004,"end":3216.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3217.3172187500004,"end":3218.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3218.44784375,"end":3221.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3221.87346875,"end":3232.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3232.89284375,"end":3235.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3236.14971875,"end":3239.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3239.40659375,"end":3240.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3241.1953437500006,"end":3242.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3243.0009687500005,"end":3248.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3249.0084687500002,"end":3252.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3252.4003437500005,"end":3252.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3253.2440937500005,"end":3255.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3255.3365937500002,"end":3257.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3257.6484687500006,"end":3258.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3259.0828437500004,"end":3262.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3262.5084687500002,"end":3266.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3266.35596875,"end":3268.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3268.2459687500004,"end":3269.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3269.5284687500007,"end":3273.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3273.1903437500005,"end":3276.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3276.97034375,"end":3282.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3283.3153437500005,"end":3285.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3285.34034375,"end":3289.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3289.2890937500006,"end":3291.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3291.8203437500006,"end":3296.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3296.59596875,"end":3304.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3305.6747187500005,"end":3312.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3312.2897187500002,"end":3315.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3315.2597187500005,"end":3320.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3320.76096875,"end":3327.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3327.7303437500004,"end":3331.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3331.86471875,"end":3334.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3335.0709687500002,"end":3339.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3339.39096875,"end":3341.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3341.63534375,"end":3343.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3343.2384687500007,"end":3344.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3345.0440937500007,"end":3347.4572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3347.6765937500004,"end":3356.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3356.6034687500005,"end":3358.4259687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3358.5947187500005,"end":3366.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3366.99846875,"end":3372.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3372.43221875,"end":3376.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3376.51596875,"end":3383.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3383.3503437500003,"end":3391.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3391.88909375,"end":3397.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3397.9472187500005,"end":3401.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3402.50346875,"end":3404.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3404.8153437500005,"end":3411.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3411.1603437500007,"end":3413.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3413.57346875,"end":3415.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3415.7840937500005,"end":3424.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3424.6603437500007,"end":3427.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3427.32659375,"end":3433.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3434.00909375,"end":3437.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3437.51909375,"end":3438.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3438.54846875,"end":3441.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3442.04159375,"end":3444.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3444.9103437500007,"end":3450.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3450.9684687500003,"end":3453.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3453.6853437500004,"end":3456.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3456.8915937500005,"end":3458.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3458.6803437500002,"end":3463.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3464.1647187500002,"end":3465.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3465.6159687500003,"end":3468.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3468.9572187500007,"end":3470.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3470.6447187500007,"end":3472.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3472.95659375,"end":3475.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3475.72409375,"end":3477.6140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3477.9347187500007,"end":3479.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3479.9090937500005,"end":3483.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3483.2840937500005,"end":3488.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3489.9159687500005,"end":3499.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3507.53346875,"end":3513.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3514.3172187500004,"end":3517.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3517.8778437500005,"end":3521.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3522.5353437500007,"end":3526.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3527.49659375,"end":3532.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3532.9472187500005,"end":3535.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3535.79909375,"end":3539.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3539.4440937500003,"end":3541.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3541.3172187500004,"end":3546.2615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3546.53159375,"end":3547.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3547.4259687500007,"end":3551.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3551.8640937500004,"end":3555.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3555.50909375,"end":3558.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3559.06971875,"end":3570.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3570.46034375,"end":3571.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3572.08034375,"end":3586.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3586.4072187500005,"end":3590.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3590.59221875,"end":3594.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3595.60409375,"end":3605.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3606.13409375,"end":3614.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3614.9259687500007,"end":3619.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3619.6847187500007,"end":3619.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3621.1865937500006,"end":3621.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3621.20346875,"end":3632.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3632.96534375,"end":3636.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3637.2178437500006,"end":3653.3165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3653.68784375,"end":3665.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3665.50034375,"end":3683.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3691.6903437500005,"end":3695.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3695.3015937500004,"end":3709.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3709.8815937500003,"end":3720.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3721.12034375,"end":3766.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3766.88534375,"end":3775.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3776.3522187500002,"end":3886.6134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3886.6472187500003,"end":3888.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3888.8240937500004,"end":3944.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3944.9503437500007,"end":3945.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3946.41846875,"end":3956.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3956.47596875,"end":3959.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3959.61471875,"end":3987.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3987.57659375,"end":3988.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3988.96034375,"end":3999.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4000.3678437500002,"end":4005.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4005.76784375,"end":4014.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4014.9140937500006,"end":4027.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4027.4522187500006,"end":4030.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4030.8272187500006,"end":4039.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4039.77096875,"end":4048.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4049.7272187500002,"end":4058.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4058.4853437500005,"end":4064.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4064.6447187500007,"end":4064.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4064.66159375,"end":4067.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4067.9522187500006,"end":4072.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4083.34221875,"end":4112.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4112.35034375,"end":4119.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4119.269093749999,"end":4122.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4123.6903437500005,"end":4126.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4126.47471875,"end":4144.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4144.66596875,"end":4164.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4165.18596875,"end":4173.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4172.54346875,"end":4172.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4173.032843749999,"end":4173.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4173.370343750001,"end":4173.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4173.454718749999,"end":4173.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4173.91034375,"end":4179.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4175.057843750001,"end":4175.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4175.31096875,"end":4175.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4179.310343749999,"end":4181.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4182.11159375,"end":4184.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4186.026593750001,"end":4188.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4188.96284375,"end":4189.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4189.36784375,"end":4189.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4189.38471875,"end":4191.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4192.067843750001,"end":4202.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4209.972218749999,"end":4212.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4212.95909375,"end":4212.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4212.975968750001,"end":4214.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4214.91659375,"end":4215.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4216.04721875,"end":4238.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4216.41846875,"end":4217.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4217.02596875,"end":4217.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4217.68409375,"end":4217.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4217.751593749999,"end":4217.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4239.081593749999,"end":4370.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4370.35221875,"end":4418.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4418.49659375,"end":4439.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4440.11346875,"end":4443.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4443.218468749999,"end":4453.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4454.102843750001,"end":4455.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4455.182843750001,"end":4499.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4500.087218750001,"end":4520.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4521.53534375,"end":4531.440968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4532.520968750001,"end":4533.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4533.972218749999,"end":4543.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4547.32034375,"end":4555.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4555.825343750001,"end":4565.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4565.35971875,"end":4569.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4569.561593750001,"end":4576.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4576.75034375,"end":4579.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4580.513468749999,"end":4583.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4583.9559687500005,"end":4589.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4590.0478437500005,"end":4594.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4595.31284375,"end":4599.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4599.71721875,"end":4602.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4602.9403437500005,"end":4605.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4606.19721875,"end":4609.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4610.669093750001,"end":4612.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4613.014718750001,"end":4613.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4613.048468749999,"end":4613.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4614.58409375,"end":4615.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4616.64284375,"end":4618.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4618.88721875,"end":4620.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4622.0428437499995,"end":4623.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4623.831593749999,"end":4625.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4625.97471875,"end":4627.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4628.573468750001,"end":4630.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4631.189093749999,"end":4632.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4632.927218750001,"end":4635.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4635.8465937500005,"end":4639.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4639.55909375,"end":4640.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4641.8709687499995,"end":4644.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4645.56659375,"end":4649.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4650.224093750001,"end":4652.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4652.8397187499995,"end":4655.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4655.708468750001,"end":4662.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4664.92221875,"end":4665.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4665.81659375,"end":4672.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4682.72534375,"end":4698.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4698.43596875,"end":4706.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4707.34596875,"end":4739.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4739.35784375,"end":4772.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4772.31471875,"end":4775.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4776.280343750001,"end":4807.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4808.03909375,"end":4810.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4811.12721875,"end":4856.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4857.364718750001,"end":4991.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4992.5165937500005,"end":5024.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5024.12346875,"end":5057.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5058.075968749999,"end":5060.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5060.4384687500005,"end":5060.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5060.522843750001,"end":5065.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5076.739718750001,"end":5076.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5078.140343749999,"end":5078.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5078.96721875,"end":5085.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5085.61596875,"end":5094.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5094.34034375,"end":5101.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5102.187218749999,"end":5105.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5105.798468749999,"end":5112.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5112.37971875,"end":5114.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5115.180968750001,"end":5123.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5123.78721875,"end":5136.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5138.097218750001,"end":5145.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5145.99471875,"end":5170.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5171.03721875,"end":5171.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5171.796593749999,"end":5175.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5177.17971875,"end":5180.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5181.0947187500005,"end":5182.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5182.731593750001,"end":5190.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5190.94971875,"end":5197.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5198.59409375,"end":5202.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5202.374093750001,"end":5220.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5220.514718750001,"end":5238.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5238.840968750001,"end":5246.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5247.76784375,"end":5265.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5265.62159375,"end":5277.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5277.80534375,"end":5280.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5280.52221875,"end":5285.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5285.567843750001,"end":5288.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5289.179093750001,"end":5294.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5294.9334687499995,"end":5304.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5304.90659375,"end":5308.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5309.192843750001,"end":5312.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5313.52971875,"end":5314.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5315.53784375,"end":5319.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5320.482218749999,"end":5325.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5325.966593749999,"end":5329.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5329.493468750001,"end":5338.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5339.9559687500005,"end":5349.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5350.46909375,"end":5355.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5357.573468750001,"end":5359.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5359.817843750001,"end":5360.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5360.982218749999,"end":5362.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5363.22659375,"end":5364.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5364.52596875,"end":5369.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5370.921593749999,"end":5379.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5380.27034375,"end":5383.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5383.51034375,"end":5386.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5387.83034375,"end":5392.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5393.095343749999,"end":5394.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5394.58034375,"end":5395.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5395.997843749999,"end":5399.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5399.710343750001,"end":5403.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5404.485968749999,"end":5412.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5424.128468750001,"end":5437.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5438.35409375,"end":5490.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5490.90284375,"end":5499.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5499.593468749999,"end":5504.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5506.967843750001,"end":5514.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5514.52784375,"end":5521.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5521.9022187499995,"end":5540.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5540.97096875,"end":5562.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5563.00971875,"end":5590.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5590.60034375,"end":5604.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5604.555968750001,"end":5606.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5608.403468750001,"end":5618.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5618.950343750001,"end":5649.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5649.24096875,"end":5667.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5667.600968750001,"end":5682.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5683.919093750001,"end":5686.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5687.07471875,"end":5691.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5692.45784375,"end":5709.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5710.14284375,"end":5744.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5745.19221875,"end":5746.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5746.50846875,"end":5763.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5764.09221875,"end":5788.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5788.89846875,"end":5819.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5820.01596875,"end":5822.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5822.901593750001,"end":5850.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5851.84221875,"end":5853.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5854.50846875,"end":5906.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5908.32284375,"end":5912.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5913.925343750001,"end":5916.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5925.045968750001,"end":5927.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5928.33659375,"end":5938.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5939.372843749999,"end":5965.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5966.54159375,"end":5981.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5981.138468749999,"end":5985.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5985.76221875,"end":6002.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6003.075968749999,"end":6009.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6010.18034375,"end":6010.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6010.61909375,"end":6011.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6011.614718750001,"end":6012.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6013.2684687500005,"end":6026.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6026.717843750001,"end":6036.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6036.825968749999,"end":6044.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6045.364718750001,"end":6062.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6063.01596875,"end":6067.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6068.41596875,"end":6069.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6069.360968750001,"end":6072.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6072.71909375,"end":6079.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6080.02596875,"end":6084.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6085.03784375,"end":6092.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6092.46284375,"end":6095.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6096.546593749999,"end":6098.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6098.97659375,"end":6106.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6107.16096875,"end":6118.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6118.41659375,"end":6118.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6119.20971875,"end":6129.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6131.12346875,"end":6136.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6137.7215937500005,"end":6161.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6162.52784375,"end":6168.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6168.653468750001,"end":6169.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6169.581593750001,"end":6170.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6170.3240937499995,"end":6170.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6171.269093750001,"end":6177.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6177.884093750001,"end":6180.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6180.63471875,"end":6198.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6199.112843750001,"end":6202.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6202.825343750001,"end":6205.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6205.45784375,"end":6214.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6214.249718749999,"end":6223.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6223.1259687500005,"end":6227.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6228.1884687500005,"end":6228.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6229.57221875,"end":6229.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6229.589093750001,"end":6229.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6229.74096875,"end":6229.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6229.75784375,"end":6229.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6236.1365937499995,"end":6236.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6236.423468750001,"end":6236.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6236.659718750001,"end":6236.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6236.91284375,"end":6236.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6236.96346875,"end":6237.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6244.253468750001,"end":6244.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6244.28721875,"end":6245.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6247.122218750001,"end":6252.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6255.137843750001,"end":6255.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6257.16284375,"end":6259.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6259.05284375,"end":6259.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6259.2215937500005,"end":6263.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6259.778468750001,"end":6264.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6264.7059687500005,"end":6264.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6264.975968750001,"end":6265.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6265.1278437500005,"end":6268.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6278.999093750001,"end":6280.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6285.19221875,"end":6286.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6288.972218750001,"end":6289.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6289.03971875,"end":6289.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6289.90034375,"end":6290.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6290.845343750001,"end":6290.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6295.13159375,"end":6295.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6295.75596875,"end":6297.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6297.831593750001,"end":6297.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6298.776593750001,"end":6300.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6301.27409375,"end":6322.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6322.874093750001,"end":6325.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6325.50659375,"end":6344.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6344.91284375,"end":6376.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6376.28346875,"end":6381.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6382.020968750001,"end":6383.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6383.77596875,"end":6384.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6384.315968750001,"end":6400.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6401.22471875,"end":6414.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6414.70784375,"end":6414.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6414.75846875,"end":6415.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6415.9228437500005,"end":6418.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6419.061593750001,"end":6420.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6420.86721875,"end":6430.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6432.966593749999,"end":6436.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6445.15034375,"end":6446.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6447.95159375,"end":6455.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6457.013468749999,"end":6472.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6473.010968750001,"end":6473.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6474.39471875,"end":6477.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6477.95534375,"end":6479.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6480.30096875,"end":6484.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6484.907843750001,"end":6486.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6486.52784375,"end":6487.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6488.012843750001,"end":6490.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6490.864718750001,"end":6493.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6493.395968750001,"end":6501.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6501.934718750001,"end":6513.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6513.983468750001,"end":6518.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6519.29909375,"end":6520.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6522.15096875,"end":6532.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6532.917218750001,"end":6536.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6536.764718750001,"end":6537.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6538.28346875,"end":6539.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6540.038468750001,"end":6541.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6542.21534375,"end":6544.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6544.69596875,"end":6553.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6553.89284375,"end":6558.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6558.5165937500005,"end":6585.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6586.05659375,"end":6587.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6587.811593750001,"end":6588.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6588.030968749999,"end":6588.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6588.840968750001,"end":6590.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6590.3934687500005,"end":6593.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6594.139718750001,"end":6608.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6608.68596875,"end":6620.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6621.595343750001,"end":6633.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6634.167218750001,"end":6640.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6640.90034375,"end":6645.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6646.030343750001,"end":6652.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6654.19784375,"end":6655.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6656.50971875,"end":6658.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6659.429093750001,"end":6661.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6661.92659375,"end":6662.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6663.411593750001,"end":6664.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6665.014718750001,"end":6671.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6671.714093750001,"end":6673.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6674.009093750001,"end":6674.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6674.802218750001,"end":6691.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6691.3397187499995,"end":6697.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6697.83659375,"end":6698.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6699.10221875,"end":6714.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6715.31909375,"end":6718.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6718.204718750001,"end":6718.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6718.23846875,"end":6723.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6725.747843749999,"end":6729.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6729.91596875,"end":6735.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6735.9403437500005,"end":6737.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6738.38721875,"end":6741.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6741.795968750001,"end":6743.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6744.040343750001,"end":6745.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6745.79534375,"end":6746.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6746.993468750001,"end":6749.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6750.33471875,"end":6751.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6751.78596875,"end":6774.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6775.073468750001,"end":6781.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6781.637843750001,"end":6782.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6783.29159375,"end":6789.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6789.99096875,"end":6794.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6794.850968750001,"end":6795.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6796.18409375,"end":6799.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6799.592843750001,"end":6809.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6810.52784375,"end":6826.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6831.233468750001,"end":6903.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6904.403468750001,"end":6944.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6944.73471875,"end":6950.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6951.53534375,"end":7062.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7061.91471875,"end":7066.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7065.01971875,"end":7066.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7089.33659375,"end":7089.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7089.977843750001,"end":7183.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7183.819718750001,"end":7298.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7299.16034375,"end":7302.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7313.87534375,"end":7316.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7316.96346875,"end":7317.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7319.03909375,"end":7559.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7560.874718750001,"end":7641.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7641.655343750001,"end":7673.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7674.34221875,"end":7678.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7704.312218750001,"end":7708.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7708.919093750001,"end":7732.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7733.2528437500005,"end":7738.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7739.36159375,"end":7754.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7754.78534375,"end":7782.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7783.169093750001,"end":7784.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7786.32471875,"end":7788.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7789.311593750001,"end":7801.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7801.545968750001,"end":7813.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7813.8309687500005,"end":7827.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7828.444718750001,"end":7833.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7834.401593750001,"end":7854.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7854.499718750001,"end":7855.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7855.967843750001,"end":7866.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7866.784718750001,"end":7891.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7891.540343750001,"end":7896.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7896.38346875,"end":7921.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7922.30346875,"end":7926.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7927.09596875,"end":7939.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7939.347218750001,"end":7948.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7949.657843750001,"end":7954.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7954.88909375,"end":7960.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7960.66034375,"end":7961.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7962.0272187499995,"end":7972.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7972.405343750001,"end":7981.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7982.5809687500005,"end":7988.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7988.92596875,"end":7992.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7992.638468749999,"end":8006.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8006.712218750001,"end":8028.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8028.734093750001,"end":8030.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8030.421593750001,"end":8030.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8030.48909375,"end":8048.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8048.68034375,"end":8060.138468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8062.0115937499995,"end":8063.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8063.513468750001,"end":8068.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8075.9334687499995,"end":8079.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8080.05096875,"end":8088.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8088.62346875,"end":8103.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8103.507218750001,"end":8130.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8131.6209687499995,"end":8134.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8135.21534375,"end":8142.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8143.247843750001,"end":8147.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8147.87159375,"end":8152.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8152.64721875,"end":8185.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8185.9247187500005,"end":8193.180968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8193.855968750002,"end":8195.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8195.745968750001,"end":8198.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8198.56409375,"end":8199.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8199.62721875,"end":8202.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8202.968468750001,"end":8216.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8217.41346875,"end":8234.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8235.06471875,"end":8247.180968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8247.50159375,"end":8250.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8250.539093750001,"end":8255.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8256.614093750002,"end":8259.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8259.921593750001,"end":8261.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8262.621593750002,"end":8264.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8265.60846875,"end":8266.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8267.262218750002,"end":8295.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8295.91596875,"end":8311.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8311.778468750003,"end":8315.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8315.74409375,"end":8318.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8319.06846875,"end":8321.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8321.54909375,"end":8322.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8322.86534375,"end":8323.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8324.417843750001,"end":8327.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8328.19784375,"end":8329.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8329.969718750002,"end":8330.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8331.235343750002,"end":8339.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8340.398468750001,"end":8341.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8341.832843750002,"end":8368.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8369.102843750003,"end":8370.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8371.043468750002,"end":8377.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8377.472843750002,"end":8414.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8415.10409375,"end":8429.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8430.207218750002,"end":8431.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8431.23659375,"end":8433.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8434.628468750001,"end":8437.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8438.99909375,"end":8439.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8440.382843750001,"end":8448.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8450.524718750003,"end":8451.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8452.262843750003,"end":8452.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8452.769093750001,"end":8456.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8543.691593750002,"end":8543.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8543.72534375,"end":8545.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8568.39659375,"end":8568.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8568.44721875,"end":8570.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8571.87284375,"end":8573.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8575.99034375,"end":8577.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8577.289718750002,"end":8577.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8968.367843750002,"end":8971.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8971.253468750001,"end":8979.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8986.407218750002,"end":8992.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8992.33034375,"end":8999.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8999.890343750001,"end":9114.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9115.19721875,"end":9120.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9120.37784375,"end":9127.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9128.32596875,"end":9129.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9129.574718750002,"end":9138.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9139.176593750002,"end":9149.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9149.90909375,"end":9177.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9177.938468750002,"end":9179.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9180.21659375,"end":9180.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9181.38096875,"end":9204.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9205.090343750002,"end":9258.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9259.12409375,"end":9261.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9261.925343750001,"end":9263.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9264.54096875,"end":9285.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9285.972218750001,"end":9293.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9294.13971875,"end":9307.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9308.31471875,"end":9327.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9327.805343750002,"end":9356.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9357.52221875,"end":9358.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9358.872218750003,"end":9360.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9363.765968750002,"end":9382.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9382.902218750001,"end":9383.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9383.50971875,"end":9385.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9385.433468750001,"end":9386.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9386.93534375,"end":9392.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9402.29159375,"end":9470.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9470.41596875,"end":9488.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9489.315968750001,"end":9491.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9491.391593750002,"end":9506.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9507.06846875,"end":9509.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9510.59534375,"end":9513.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9513.261593750001,"end":9530.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9530.11971875,"end":9536.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9536.44784375,"end":9554.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9555.145343750002,"end":9579.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9579.512843750003,"end":9579.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9581.132843750001,"end":9600.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9601.09596875,"end":9604.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9604.454093750002,"end":9632.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9632.90534375,"end":9638.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9639.38534375,"end":9645.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9645.71346875,"end":9648.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9649.223468750002,"end":9666.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9668.309093750002,"end":9674.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9676.054718750001,"end":9679.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9680.290343750003,"end":9694.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9695.39346875,"end":9714.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9715.019093750001,"end":9720.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9720.58784375,"end":9729.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9731.18534375,"end":9737.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9738.30659375,"end":9738.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9739.386593750001,"end":9768.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9768.63096875,"end":9797.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9798.550343750001,"end":9799.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9800.01846875,"end":9804.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9805.48596875,"end":9820.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9821.09534375,"end":9822.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9822.968468750001,"end":9828.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9828.773468750001,"end":9829.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9830.24159375,"end":9866.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9866.40471875,"end":9868.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9869.18909375,"end":9875.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9877.17096875,"end":9878.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9878.554718750001,"end":9880.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9888.03846875,"end":9890.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9890.45159375,"end":9978.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9978.45471875,"end":10034.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10034.31096875,"end":10059.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10059.690968750001,"end":10096.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10096.49534375,"end":10126.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10127.96721875,"end":10128.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10128.777218750001,"end":10132.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10132.793468750002,"end":10134.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10137.012218750002,"end":10153.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10153.90409375,"end":10201.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10202.48721875,"end":10243.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10243.847843750002,"end":10245.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10245.957218750002,"end":10266.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10267.45596875,"end":10288.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10288.769093750001,"end":10424.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10424.579093750002,"end":10492.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10492.78784375,"end":10521.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10523.145968750003,"end":10523.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10523.230343750001,"end":10523.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10523.601593750001,"end":10524.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10524.833468750003,"end":10531.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10537.894718750002,"end":10542.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10542.906593750002,"end":10549.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10550.16284375,"end":10558.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10558.92096875,"end":10563.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10563.359093750001,"end":10564.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10564.844093750002,"end":10569.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10570.109093750001,"end":10598.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10599.40409375,"end":10610.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10611.520343750002,"end":10647.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10647.700343750003,"end":10652.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10653.03284375,"end":10678.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10679.965343750002,"end":10705.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10706.594093750002,"end":10738.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10738.96034375,"end":10753.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10753.33784375,"end":10763.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10765.04909375,"end":10780.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10780.894718750002,"end":10810.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10811.539718750002,"end":10823.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10823.301593750002,"end":10831.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10831.75596875,"end":10841.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10842.539093750001,"end":10853.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10854.95909375,"end":10856.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10857.18659375,"end":10890.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10890.29534375,"end":10901.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10890.54846875,"end":10890.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10902.141593750002,"end":10925.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10925.95221875,"end":10969.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10969.65846875,"end":10972.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10972.628468750001,"end":10979.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10980.94784375,"end":10981.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10982.196593750003,"end":10984.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10993.992218750001,"end":11053.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11053.594718750002,"end":11126.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11127.22034375,"end":11207.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11208.996593750002,"end":11209.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11209.85721875,"end":11212.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11218.395968750003,"end":11265.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11266.118468750003,"end":11331.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11331.67784375,"end":11340.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11340.942218750002,"end":11344.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11345.059718750003,"end":11392.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11393.355968750002,"end":11396.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11396.59596875,"end":11409.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11409.809093750002,"end":11437.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11438.243468750003,"end":11446.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11446.95096875,"end":11453.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11453.44784375,"end":11466.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11466.289718750002,"end":11478.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11479.570343750001,"end":11490.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11490.437843750002,"end":11500.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11500.59659375,"end":11538.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11538.953468750002,"end":11539.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11538.98721875,"end":11539.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11539.965968750003,"end":11544.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11549.88846875,"end":11675.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11676.45096875,"end":11727.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11728.78034375,"end":11778.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11778.88221875,"end":11786.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11788.028468750003,"end":11803.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11804.22846875,"end":11825.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11826.570968750002,"end":11841.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11841.606593750003,"end":11900.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11901.512843750003,"end":11903.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11904.449093750001,"end":11926.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11927.601593750001,"end":11931.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11932.12409375,"end":11943.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11944.29096875,"end":11945.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11947.19346875,"end":11952.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11952.84659375,"end":11957.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11958.145343750002,"end":11967.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11968.202843750001,"end":11969.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11970.261593750001,"end":11974.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11974.581593750001,"end":11974.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11975.965343750002,"end":11987.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11988.030968750001,"end":12036.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12037.457843750002,"end":12038.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12039.28034375,"end":12040.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12041.76096875,"end":12042.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12043.39784375,"end":12048.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12053.759093750003,"end":12103.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12103.894718750002,"end":12122.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12122.929718750001,"end":12160.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12160.695968750002,"end":12165.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12166.61909375,"end":12223.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12223.63971875,"end":12233.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12234.06846875,"end":12234.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12234.102218750002,"end":12240.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12241.375343750002,"end":12345.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12345.88221875,"end":12394.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12395.49471875,"end":12396.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12396.878468750001,"end":12401.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12402.14346875,"end":12431.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12431.52284375,"end":12432.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12432.906593750002,"end":12444.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12445.292843750001,"end":12453.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12454.118468750003,"end":12461.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12462.04971875,"end":12480.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12480.98346875,"end":12484.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12484.645343750002,"end":12486.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12487.29471875,"end":12493.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12494.38221875,"end":12501.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12501.351593750001,"end":12511.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12512.57346875,"end":12519.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12520.032218750002,"end":12532.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12532.77284375,"end":12551.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12551.925968750002,"end":12564.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12564.83534375,"end":12570.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12570.960968750001,"end":12573.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12574.605968750002,"end":12576.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12576.833468750003,"end":12587.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12588.24096875,"end":12596.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12597.30284375,"end":12608.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12608.96346875,"end":12628.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12628.757843750001,"end":12630.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12630.884093750003,"end":12646.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12646.66221875,"end":12657.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12658.10346875,"end":12667.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12667.92471875,"end":12671.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12671.97471875,"end":12689.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12689.76096875,"end":12691.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12691.80284375,"end":12692.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12693.456593750001,"end":12710.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12711.10784375,"end":12712.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12712.457843750002,"end":12713.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12713.099093750003,"end":12717.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12717.452843750001,"end":12720.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12722.380343750003,"end":12726.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12732.336593750002,"end":12733.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12735.222218750001,"end":12740.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12744.95909375,"end":12746.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12746.69721875,"end":12748.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12748.75596875,"end":12755.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12755.961593750002,"end":12759.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12759.79221875,"end":12768.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12768.63471875,"end":12770.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12770.44034375,"end":12773.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12773.106593750003,"end":12781.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12781.493468750003,"end":12785.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12785.30721875,"end":12788.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12789.05346875,"end":12789.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12790.26846875,"end":12792.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12794.16659375,"end":12806.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12806.957843750002,"end":12810.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12810.88971875,"end":12813.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12813.977843750003,"end":12816.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12816.52596875,"end":12822.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12822.65159375,"end":12830.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12831.595343750003,"end":12846.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12846.15846875,"end":12854.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12854.798468750003,"end":12863.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12864.94034375,"end":12871.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12871.403468750003,"end":12876.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12876.43221875,"end":12882.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12883.317218750002,"end":12892.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12892.24409375,"end":12917.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12917.82659375,"end":12948.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12948.82596875,"end":12958.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12958.64721875,"end":12977.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12977.817218750002,"end":12983.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12984.094718750002,"end":12991.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12991.97534375,"end":12993.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12994.18596875,"end":12998.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12998.168468750002,"end":13009.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13009.812218750001,"end":13019.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13020.24096875,"end":13084.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13086.52596875,"end":13088.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13088.972843750002,"end":13093.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13095.16596875,"end":13103.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13105.594718750002,"end":13127.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13130.012843750003,"end":13130.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13131.14346875,"end":13133.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13133.52284375,"end":13142.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13142.618468750003,"end":13150.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13151.190968750001,"end":13168.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13170.074093750001,"end":13177.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13179.60846875,"end":13179.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13180.570343750001,"end":13182.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13182.359093750001,"end":13186.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13186.493468750003,"end":13193.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13194.171593750001,"end":13199.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13199.672843750002,"end":13200.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13200.95534375,"end":13201.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13201.91721875,"end":13210.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13210.675343750001,"end":13221.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13221.880343750003,"end":13222.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13223.972843750002,"end":13224.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13224.715343750002,"end":13226.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13226.75721875,"end":13230.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13230.402218750001,"end":13231.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13232.07284375,"end":13238.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13238.65409375,"end":13242.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13242.82221875,"end":13243.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13243.699718750002,"end":13245.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13245.606593750003,"end":13248.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13249.133468750002,"end":13253.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13253.75721875,"end":13257.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13257.824093750001,"end":13261.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13262.042843750001,"end":13263.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13263.61221875,"end":13265.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13266.24471875,"end":13279.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13279.37346875,"end":13280.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13281.06096875,"end":13286.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13287.102218750002,"end":13288.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13288.92471875,"end":13289.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13289.937218750001,"end":13293.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13293.66659375,"end":13295.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13295.657843750003,"end":13299.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13300.19721875,"end":13302.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13303.99409375,"end":13306.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13307.31846875,"end":13308.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13308.972218750001,"end":13318.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13318.97909375,"end":13320.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13321.544093750003,"end":13325.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13326.30284375,"end":13330.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13330.859093750001,"end":13331.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13331.41596875,"end":13331.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13332.58034375,"end":13333.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13333.79534375,"end":13335.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13335.668468750002,"end":13338.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13338.70596875,"end":13339.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13340.54534375,"end":13343.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13343.734718750002,"end":13344.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13345.03409375,"end":13348.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13348.527218750001,"end":13351.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13351.767218750003,"end":13359.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13360.390343750001,"end":13363.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13363.579718750003,"end":13367.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13368.051593750002,"end":13368.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13369.18221875,"end":13372.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13372.50659375,"end":13372.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13373.063468750002,"end":13373.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13373.890343750001,"end":13375.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13375.76346875,"end":13376.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13376.708468750003,"end":13380.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13380.52221875,"end":13382.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13382.93534375,"end":13398.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13399.253468750001,"end":13407.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13407.84284375,"end":13408.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13409.63159375,"end":13410.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13411.352843750003,"end":13413.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13413.74909375,"end":13415.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13415.993468750003,"end":13416.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13417.731593750003,"end":13418.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13418.423468750003,"end":13420.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13421.17409375,"end":13424.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13424.86971875,"end":13426.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13426.911593750003,"end":13429.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13429.88159375,"end":13433.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13433.222843750002,"end":13436.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13437.289718750002,"end":13438.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13439.939093750003,"end":13447.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13447.937843750002,"end":13451.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13451.734718750002,"end":13455.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13456.08846875,"end":13456.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13457.016593750002,"end":13459.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13460.03721875,"end":13461.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13461.84284375,"end":13465.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13466.11221875,"end":13470.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13470.70221875,"end":13472.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13472.76096875,"end":13474.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13475.207843750002,"end":13476.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13477.317218750002,"end":13478.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13478.97096875,"end":13479.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13480.92846875,"end":13484.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13484.691593750002,"end":13486.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13486.93596875,"end":13489.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13489.872218750003,"end":13490.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13491.087218750003,"end":13492.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13492.84221875,"end":13495.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13496.402843750002,"end":13497.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13497.735968750003,"end":13499.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13499.845343750003,"end":13501.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13502.359718750002,"end":13503.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13504.35096875,"end":13505.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13506.51096875,"end":13510.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13510.544093750003,"end":13511.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13514.222843750002,"end":13521.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13527.098468750002,"end":13587.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13587.88221875,"end":13614.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13615.38846875,"end":13616.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13617.059093750002,"end":13620.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13621.345343750003,"end":13623.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13623.37034375,"end":13662.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13709.80409375,"end":13709.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13709.922218750002,"end":13711.035968750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":55.612,"end":55.632,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":2017.506,"end":2027.974,"text":"好我們現在開始開會那今天本會舉辦人工生殖法條文修正草案的公聽會那我首先要謝謝我們各位學者專家還有各政府機關代表的歷齡還有我們本委員會委員的一個關心那這次公聽會探討的議題以提綱為準我想之前都已經有給各位"},{"start":2042.229,"end":2053.195,"text":"請大家參閱有關於《人工生殖法條文修正草案》目前也是社會各界高度矚目包括衛福部也召開過兩次公聽會今天由立法院衛福委員會正式召開公聽會"},{"start":2064.284,"end":2089.379,"text":"主要目的就是持續的來收集各界對於《人工生殖法條文修正草案》的意見非常謝謝今天各位的出席首先我來介紹今天我來介紹今天我們出席的政府代表首先我們歡迎衛福部周志浩次長國建署吳昭君署長"},{"start":2096.704,"end":2097.805,"text":"衛喜倫副署長法務部江南軍參事內政部護政司潘瑩中專門委員徐淑芬法官"},{"start":2122.799,"end":2128.141,"text":"行政院性別平等委員會吳秀珍處長我們今天到場目前到場的委員有陳昭芝委員王振旭委員還有陳金輝委員歡迎三位委員今天我們邀請的學者專家出席的有彩虹平權大平台"},{"start":2152.872,"end":2154.813,"text":"鄧竹元執行長黃於賢臺灣生殖醫學會 劉志鴻常務理事國立臺灣大學醫學院 華曉林教授中華民國生育醫學會張帆前理事長"},{"start":2183.951,"end":2207.211,"text":"臺灣婦產科醫學會陳思源理事長臺灣生殖醫學會張甫軒常務理事國立臺北大學法律學系關曉薇教授國立政治大學法學院法律學系戴宇儒教授"},{"start":2210.191,"end":2235.421,"text":"東武大學法學院暨法律學系陳崇洋助理教授還沒到臺灣女人連線 林綠紅理事長國立清華大學科技法律研究所 林于賢副教授也還沒到好 外縣式的我看都會有點困難婦女薪資基金會開拓部陳正龍主任好 還沒到"},{"start":2239.115,"end":2263.84,"text":"財團法人後生基金會陳伯同執行長歡迎臺灣同志家庭權益促進會李瑞平李璇平秘書長也還在路上好好那以上呢就歡迎大家出席今天的公聽會那好來好陳昭志委員來請是"},{"start":2274.423,"end":2288.748,"text":"是好那他是已經出發嗎因為高鐵延誤嘛對不對喔 好"},{"start":2298.22,"end":2299.541,"text":"中間可能有一段時間稍微休息 就是去等"},{"start":2321.298,"end":2321.779,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":2337.096,"end":2337.356,"text":"陳慧媛"},{"start":2366.28,"end":2392.91,"text":"你是說先休息是不是我們順序上就是都讓正反正反好不好就是維持一個平衡就正反正反就是各兩邊的代表正反正反的順序這樣子下來好不好這樣可以嗎陳委員"},{"start":2395.342,"end":2417.267,"text":"對阿是真的有點意外我們不太知道真的沒關係就是是不是需求的人的公平性是比較不足啦因為一直都是比較在局外的人有一些不講話但是讓需求人講話我覺得是非常重要的因為沒問題好那陳委員你有什麼具體的建議你是希望稍微再我知道很多醫生們是有認識"},{"start":2425.519,"end":2425.819,"text":"滿平均的齁"},{"start":2449.55,"end":2449.87,"text":"請主席採決"},{"start":2474.827,"end":2499.198,"text":"我瞭解我瞭解這個趙志偉的意思因為今天的確是因為地震這個天災所以導致這個來出席的人員都會因為交通因素被耽擱所以我剛剛也有採視只要他今天會到場的我們一定都讓他發言所以包括這個你剛剛說的小嫻我們一定等他會讓他發言好不好因為這是天災導致大家在行程上面的耽擱"},{"start":2499.958,"end":2499.998,"text":"主席"},{"start":2516.104,"end":2516.744,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2541.124,"end":2570.652,"text":"主席各位委員各位專家學者各位女士先生今天大院第11屆第1會期社會社會福利及衛生環境委員會舉行人工生殖條文修正草案公聽會本部受邀列席深感榮幸進行各位不定指教因應醫學科技進步以及社會的變遷那我們在衛福部改制之前的行政院衛生署從93年的時候就代孕"},{"start":2571.132,"end":2600.419,"text":"代孕公民會議達成了不禁止但有條件開放的共識之後就積極的來研議關於代理孕母法治化的這些相關事宜那94年底的時候也擬定了相關的修正的草案並且召開多次的專家會議以及民意調查納入代孕生殖的人工生殖法部分條文修正草案並且在105年8月的時候就送行政院那其後呢那行政院針對我們所提出的草案"},{"start":2601.839,"end":2623.424,"text":"作出指示表示還需要考慮保障代理孕母相關的探視權、侵權、反悔權、工作及社會福利等等相關的權益避免代孕、商業化等等這些問題還存在要求我們除了考量這些問題之外並且與行政院性評會委員充分溝通之後再行抱怨"},{"start":2625.324,"end":2653.525,"text":"衛福部的國民健康署就依據行政院的指示分別在106年及107年邀請性評會委員及相關的學者專家召開專家會議御會專家認為代理運可能衍生的侵權歸屬的問題還有很多的事情還需要再進一步的釐清和解決需要在當時認為是需要再審慎的來做一個評估另外行政院在107年4月的時候有就公共政策網路平臺"},{"start":2654.606,"end":2678.136,"text":"聯署通過了《開放單身女性可以合法使用人工受孕以及私管嬰兒的一案》造開了開放政府的協作會議邀請相關的人員共同與會與會者達到的共識是認為還是應該以兒童的最佳利益作為主要的考量此外為了因應108年5月24日司法院釋字第748號解釋施刑法的開始實施"},{"start":2681.897,"end":2690.802,"text":"本部國民健康署在108年的這時候就開始針對開放同性配偶實施人工生殖的議題召開相關的專家諮詢會議會議主要的結論是這樣為其社會和諧將"},{"start":2698.085,"end":2718.204,"text":"將依民情社會期待就生命輪長兒童身心健全成長國家發展等各面向綜合評估考量以最小衝擊最大共識的原則嚴厲合一可行並且可以維護利害相關人權利的草法案避免滋生不同意見者之間的衝突跟對立"},{"start":2720.046,"end":2739.711,"text":"我們同時並在109年期邀請兒權性評法律以及等等相關方面的專家以及司法院以及法務部的同仁一起組織的專家會議到目前為止已經開了14次的專家會議就代孕生子子女利益最佳化保障代孕"},{"start":2740.951,"end":2742.132,"text":"本部對於修法開放人工生殖"},{"start":2766.181,"end":2766.201,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":2789.026,"end":2816.047,"text":"並且就我們所收集的資料趕快做一個整理 審慎的研議人工生殖法修正的內容 依照法制作業儘速的將修正草案來報請行政院來做審查 這一次呈大院各委員的指教以及監督在此特別致謝 並請大家給我們多多指教 謝謝好 謝謝周市長代表衛福部的一個報告 那接下來我們請法務部的代表報告 是不是請蔣產史"},{"start":2824.825,"end":2837.376,"text":"主席 各位委員 以及各位專家學者 各位女士先生今天奉邀列席貴委員會公聽會 請代表法務部提出相關意見如下 敬請指教"},{"start":2838.922,"end":2858.469,"text":"有關人工生殖法的各項修法議題包括人工生殖技術與資源的適用對象是不是應該取消婚育議題的規定並且擴大適用對象還有代孕者是否納入人工生殖法的適用範圍以及如何規劃相關程序與配套措施以保障代孕者"},{"start":2859.429,"end":2883.758,"text":"委託伴侶的權益以及子女的最佳利益這些部分涉及了醫學倫理、兒童權益、同性平權、婦女權益等多面向、多層級的思維考量需要相關領域的專家綜合評估我國的民情還有社會期待以及兒童身心發展以尋求最大的共識"},{"start":2884.895,"end":2912.842,"text":"因此﹐有關各位委員﹐團體﹐機關等各界的意見﹐法務部均予以尊重至於人工生殖法的修正﹐如何進一步來協助缺乏子宮﹐或者是因為疾病﹐無法自行懷胎生育的配偶﹐還有代孕生殖技術﹐跟現有的人工生殖實施過程技術上﹐有高度重疊﹐如果另立專法﹐在立法技術上是不是合適﹐"},{"start":2914.51,"end":2942.092,"text":"還有這個居間服務機構應該如何規範以保護代孕者的權益這些議題涉及醫療專業以及這個實務執行的事項建請先由主管機關衛生福利部以及國民健康署提出相關實證並且做成正確決定政策決定確立人工生殖政策以及修法方向這些都應以整體的配套考量"},{"start":2942.805,"end":2969.84,"text":"並且研擬相關草案條文僅就本次討論提綱涉及本部主管法律的部分提供意見如下現行的人工生殖法第5章人工生殖子女的地位的相關規定已經明列了各種人工生殖子女視為婚生子女的情形所以他的地位以及得視為婚生子女的情形都是依人工生殖法的相關規定"},{"start":2971.263,"end":2996.749,"text":"那民法所規範的親子關係是需要生母跟子女有自然的分娩適時的血緣關係跟代孕生殖所生的血緣關係明顯不同如果我國允許代孕生殖合法這個是屬於政策決定本部競表尊重但是代孕生殖所衍生的子女身份關係法律地位還有遺產"},{"start":2998.004,"end":2998.024,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3014.087,"end":3017.971,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生各位指教謝謝好我們謝謝法務部王參事的報告接下來我們請內政部護政司潘專門委員"},{"start":3049.891,"end":3063.165,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位與會的行政機關及專家學者今天內政部奉要列席貴委員會舉行的人工生殖法條文修正草案公聽會我們的相關意見如下進行指教"},{"start":3064.54,"end":3080.799,"text":"首先,按《人工生殖法》第15條規定,精卵捐贈之人工生殖不得為直系血清、直系陰清、視清等內旁系血清之親屬間精卵結合,前向親屬關係查證之申請人、查證方式及其他應遵循事項的辦法。"},{"start":3081.909,"end":3099.354,"text":"由主管機關另行會同 中央互證機關定之其次 金軟捐贈親屬關係查證辦法第二條規定人工生殖 受訴夫妻得依親等關聯資料 申請提供及管理辦法之規定向互證事務所申請親等關聯資料證明"},{"start":3101.314,"end":3121.971,"text":"因此 戶籍法第56條之一第一項規定 申請人有查證親屬關係之需求得向任一戶證事務所 申請輕等關聯資料其次依照內政部輕等關聯資料 申請提供及管理辦法第二條第一款規定 受訴夫妻查證申請查證親屬關係者 戶證機關應依規定提供輕等關聯資料"},{"start":3126.195,"end":3144.5,"text":"因此現行互證事務所是配合《人工生殖法》所定的條件提供親等關聯資料公查證親屬關係本次公聽會討論提綱主要針對《人工生殖法》的適用範圍以及《人工生殖子女最佳利益》等議題提出討論"},{"start":3145.72,"end":3173.351,"text":"那其中涉及醫學倫理性別平權兒童權益等面向本部尊重主管機關之政策決定未來談人工生殖法之修正涉及上開戶籍資料是提供本部將配合辦理必立民眾申請相關資料以上報告敬請各位委員女士先生予以指教謝謝好我們謝謝內政部副政司潘專門委員的報告接下來我們邀請呃司法院的代表是不是請謝廳長謝謝"},{"start":3182.153,"end":3201.302,"text":"各位委員還有各位學者專家還有這個各位機關代表大家早安那司法院這個僅由沙拉廳就是來提出我們本院的初步的一個意見那如果對這個大保安解釋這有些了解大家會知道說其實大保官歷來的解釋呢大家都會認為說家庭權"},{"start":3203.063,"end":3203.083,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3218.479,"end":3218.599,"text":"主席"},{"start":3237.915,"end":3262.029,"text":"結識了婚姻其實除了這些功能之外,而且它必須要對配偶雙方在精神、情感、物質上面也具有相互扶持依存的功能。基於以上,其家庭制度包含婚姻、包含其他的家庭制度,大概都必須要直擊在人格自由,它具有繁衍還有教育經濟文化的這些社會的多重功能。"},{"start":3262.809,"end":3284.649,"text":"這也是一個國家在自由民主憲政法治國之下提供個人在社會生活必要的知識並且成為社會形成跟發展的一個重要的基礎這也是世界諸多的國際公約所承認的其中我們回到今天的主要的議題就是對於家庭權的保障範圍也就是組成家庭的權利"},{"start":3285.424,"end":3303.773,"text":"那從712號解釋對於收養呢他其實就提到說因為家庭制度的如果有些人他其實沒有辦法透過繁衍就是剛剛就是法務部代表提到的民法裡面透過分免的這樣情況當然收養就是其中的一個選項"},{"start":3305.711,"end":3334.03,"text":"那但是呢我們都知道說在這個收養自由也是人格權也是先把第22條的位列舉的人權清單之一之後呢隨著人口結構的改變現在的社會家庭的形態的多樣化已經跟過去不管是民法或者是我目前的人工生殖法這些的一個規範已經大有不同那也就是說傳統的這個核心家庭跟折衷家庭已經不是唯一的家庭的風貌"},{"start":3335.271,"end":3353.491,"text":"對於現在的新的社會現象有多元的家庭形態其中有單親、有不婚、有非婚的同居、也有同性伴侶但是目前現行的人工生殖法已經賦予建立婚姻關係的人可以禁用人工生殖來養育子女、得享天倫"},{"start":3354.251,"end":3354.271,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3377.374,"end":3379.896,"text":"提現平等保障與社會公平正義"},{"start":3386.989,"end":3406.802,"text":"包含單親本院樂觀啟程涉及數個權力之間的保障和不同權力主體之間的衝突調和包含委託配偶的生育養育權、代孕者的人格尊嚴和人工生殖子女獲得協同來源這也是4-587號解釋"},{"start":3408.444,"end":3438.113,"text":"所揭示的那這些其實都影響了各個權利主體之間他如何能夠去不是只是去保障特定一方的權利來獲得保障那如何能夠去這個透過這樣的一個公聽會的舉辦那能夠凝聚共識化解爭議減少就是可能開放代理孕母之後如果對於生命倫理還有社會道德帶來的衝擊那我想這個從目前的人工生殖法的草案的總說明"},{"start":3440.094,"end":3462.967,"text":"人工生殖子女的地位必須要透過兒童權利公約對於兒童的不歧視和最佳利益的方面能夠確保但是目前在人工生殖裡面又對於捐贈精卵者採取匿名而且不可以指定捐贈這個部分可能跟我們第二次兒童權利公約第二次國家報告"},{"start":3464.195,"end":3488.074,"text":"委員提出對於如何保障人工生殖子女對身份諮詢請求這個部分的血緣的認知可能還需要大家能夠去進行這些權力保障之間的橫評的考量可能需要進行的去做一部審慎的一個評估那基於以上呢我們大概尊重就是主管機關的立法政策決定還有大院的一個立法的一個審酌以上謝謝"},{"start":3489.943,"end":3491.224,"text":"行政院性別平等委員會吳秀珍處長"},{"start":3507.557,"end":3521.335,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位專家學者 各位女士先生 大家早今天本院性別平等會獲邀貴委員會公聽會列席報告 深感榮幸以下由行政院"},{"start":3522.594,"end":3546.936,"text":"性平會祕書單位性別平等處代表說明 敬請指教本案與女性與兒童的權益密切相關是本院性平性別平等會委員關注的重要的議題而且經性平會三層級會議多次的研商之就本次的議程齋整本院性平會歷屆委員關切的這個重點如以下說明"},{"start":3547.523,"end":3574.493,"text":"一應避免造成代孕女性身體的商品化造成經濟弱勢女性淪為生產工具二需完整保障代孕者的身份以及權益例如侵權探視權反悔權等三應充分保障代孕子女的權益協助代孕子女瞭解其基因家族史基因身份等四應完完善的規劃代孕配套措施"},{"start":3575.049,"end":3601.182,"text":"例如產假、育嬰假、生育津貼等福利措施之申請居間服務機構的管理及法則禁止廣告及法則避免透過代孕升值不當盈利及過度商品化等五 應保障同性伴侶及單身女性的生育權利最後本案涉及醫療倫理法案法律及社會等層面"},{"start":3601.782,"end":3601.942,"text":"並積極妥慎週延處理"},{"start":3621.203,"end":3649.134,"text":"好我們謝謝新評會我們吳處長的一個報告那本次會議部會及學者專家所提供的相關書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報與會人員發言前主席先宣告以下的事項一學者專家及本院委員每位發言時間6分鐘二未檢報方便專家學者發言請至主席台右邊的發言台登記三原則上"},{"start":3649.639,"end":3678.486,"text":"由學者專家先行依簽到順序發言委員如要發言請到主席臺登記那我們是兩位專家學者發言完之後兩位委員發言按照這樣的一個順序排下來所以待會就是按照這樣的一個順序那另外第4點全部人員發言結束後會請行政機關再做整體的回應那我們暫定10點半會休息"},{"start":3679.059,"end":3681.902,"text":"那現在請登記第一位林綠紅臺灣女人連線理事長發言"},{"start":3691.721,"end":3709.514,"text":"主席各位委員大家好我代表臺灣女人連線針對那個人工生殖法的修正提出以下的意見第一個就是針對在第一個提綱1跟提綱4的部分其實在今年的2月21號就是有大概有30個社會團體其實已經針對代理孕母"},{"start":3710.014,"end":3731.28,"text":"要跟人工生殖法脫鉤我們其實有一個連署然後也開了公聽會那主要的原因其實跟提綱4講的是相反的因為我們認為人工生殖法當中規範的技術事項跟代理育母所需要的這個複雜程度其實不相當所以如果代理育母要再討論的話必須要再有一套自己的專法去做處理"},{"start":3731.82,"end":3731.84,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3755.598,"end":3755.618,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3776.437,"end":3805.629,"text":"再者針對議題三的部分我們討論這個議題的時候常會有一個迷思認為就是我們只要有完整的配套其實就能夠好像就能夠完整周延的實施代理育母的制度那不過要告訴大家所謂的完整的配套其實對育母來說代理育母本人來說並沒有完善良善的配套這件事情來說醫療倫理上面我們常說不傷害那這個不傷害的意思裡面包含的就是風險跟利益的評估那在代理育母的這套制度裡面"},{"start":3806.79,"end":3806.81,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3827.509,"end":3827.529,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3846.633,"end":3846.813,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3872.757,"end":3872.877,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3888.9,"end":3912.239,"text":"那好像就變成這個代理育母要去當志工就是10個月的志工那完全是一個利他不利己的一個行為你想想看有哪一個女人當了10個月的志工拿的是基本工資然後呢這裡面3個月的裡面是日以繼夜的這種生命跟身體的付出還有就是剛剛說到的風險以及他全部的家庭跟身心投入到這個工作當中"},{"start":3912.619,"end":3912.839,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會議"},{"start":3929.935,"end":3945.6,"text":"到底我們要怎麼樣去看待這個這樣子一個倫理跟法律上面的一個爭議那還有一個也要提醒的一個部分是在過去的公聽會當中我們常會有當事人現身說法我說有當事人現身說法指的是代理運母本人那都是個案"},{"start":3946.46,"end":3965.681,"text":"那講的是很美好的代孕的過程但是從2015年到現在即便是在美國有浮出檯面帶領一母死亡的這種情況其實就有三個例子那很不幸的是從事代孕工作的女性其實都是比較年輕的女性這三個例子裡面就是這些女性留下了她自己年幼的子女死亡"},{"start":3966.081,"end":3986.834,"text":"那為什麼會出現?其實大部分我們都看不到這些爭議是因為美國的商業型的待遇裡面的契約它會讓這個就用和解的過程當中有保密的義務所以我們在媒體上不會看到那這三例是因為在求償的過程當中浮出檯面那我們就會看到就是後續的這個三個孕母留下自己年幼的子女然後呢"},{"start":3987.674,"end":3987.694,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4000.427,"end":4019.547,"text":"不應該只是去美化代孕本身美好的那一面它有它的風險 那個風險不管可能性多高遇到就是全部假設你去翻開我們現在的生產事故救濟條例每一年的年報我們每一年還是有產婦因為這樣死亡的那遇到就是全部 那我們怎麼去面對這一些如果我們用無償利他的部分"},{"start":4020.168,"end":4048.416,"text":"假設有個家人去當志工當到死亡我們怎麼去面對這件事情那第二個部分是我們現行的法規裡面包含在那個就是因為兩公約的關係有人權影響評估然後也有剛剛性評處提到的就是性別影響評估在這個過程當中這個議題姿勢體大會要求就是政府機關必須要進行完這些評估之後再行運作就是整體來說我其實我覺得我們必須要看到的是從"},{"start":4049.616,"end":4050.757,"text":"臺灣女人連線 林麗紅理事長國立臺灣大學醫學院教授 華曉林教授"},{"start":4083.376,"end":4098.322,"text":"自主是非常重要的議題在符合兒童最佳利益然後又可以保障待遇者權益包括當然任何人生產都有風險然後又希望能夠成就有意願養育孩子的人的心願"},{"start":4098.982,"end":4099.102,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":4125.256,"end":4125.696,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4144.733,"end":4145.433,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4192.328,"end":4201.47,"text":"今天因為有地震的關係所以如果搖晃比較大我們就暫時停止停止一兩分鐘讓那個搖晃過去之後大家還是自身安全比較重要再繼續"},{"start":4208.908,"end":4211.907,"text":"現在應該只看到一個人了"},{"start":4218.067,"end":4229.37,"text":"為了代孕者的安全當然他的健康狀態評估還有他的代孕生殖次數的上限應該也是要被列入的當然生殖細胞使用範圍這些都應該有規範然後對於代孕者提供的一些酬金其他的費用範圍應該也要規範因為他們真的是非常非常的辛苦居間代孕機構他因為有一些服務的需求所以當然應該"},{"start":4244.394,"end":4244.594,"text":"法律諮詢"},{"start":4266.272,"end":4266.292,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4286.069,"end":4315.174,"text":"好 那還有代孕契約需要經過公證然後代孕契約本身應該也要列出一些違約的處置包括違約金等等還有它的違約處置裡面列出來的是不是能夠真正的有執行力能夠實現那也是另外一個重要的議題那如果真的要執行的話那當然嚴格的管理是很重要的那政府機構呢 最好能夠提供代孕契約範本供參考那如果有紛爭的話呢 最好盡量以非訴訟方式來迅速的解決"},{"start":4316.115,"end":4322.075,"text":"懷孕期間如果有些問題不能馬上解決的話那孩子就要生下來了那會有很多的一些其他後續的一些問題"},{"start":4324.13,"end":4345.543,"text":"居間機構一定要有專業人員參與,所以一定要規定他們的資格,包括社工師、心理師等等需要有執照服務員的內容包括招募跟篩檢代孕者這點就非常的重要,因為有些研究發現100個自願說願意做代孕者的人可能篩檢通過的只有一兩位"},{"start":4346.383,"end":4369.271,"text":"好 那還有評估委託卿也很重要然後要協調他們的意見分歧跟整合雙方的這些檢查的結果然後確認他們可以簽訂一個代孕契約然後在契約進行當中還要輔佐那個契約的進行然後要維護各方面良好的關係因為良好的關係才能夠讓代孕者跟這個委託卿之間大家都能夠遵守協議"},{"start":4370.407,"end":4373.688,"text":"法律及醫療問題要有專業諮詢,擔任者及委託青應該有分別的專業法律諮詢人員可能風險告知,希望能有標準教學影片,包括法律問題、醫療問題、如果孩子有異常、早產等問題"},{"start":4395.214,"end":4395.234,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4418.604,"end":4418.624,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4443.257,"end":4443.457,"text":"委員會公聽會議"},{"start":4459.085,"end":4459.105,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4485.247,"end":4486.408,"text":"委託期了解、讓代孕者知道必須避免危害胎兒的情況各項費用、相關檢查、相關專業人員規定"},{"start":4500.202,"end":4500.222,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4521.57,"end":4522.37,"text":"陳思源理事長、台灣婦產科醫學會理事長"},{"start":4547.589,"end":4568.749,"text":"主席、各位委員、專家大家好我本身是婦產科醫師在臺大醫院服務了30多年也擔任過婦產部主任6年現在是資深教授兼組織醫師及組織醫師也是婦產科醫學會的理事長曾經在20多年前我由國健局"},{"start":4569.71,"end":4594.181,"text":"我那時候還是很年輕的組織醫師被派往美國參訪考察代理孕母他們做得很好那我也寫很完整的報告那我本身呢是照顧不應症的患者那也常常有先天性沒有子宮或者是後天性子宮切除的病人或者是有嚴重的內科疾病的患者譬如說洗腎的孕婦"},{"start":4595.382,"end":4620.434,"text":"他們可能沒有辦法或者不適合懷孕來求診雖然是少數的弱勢族群但是他們很希望擁有可愛的小孩但是由於人工生殖法的限制沒辦法幫忙他們我可以感受到他們的痛苦以及無助有的只好放棄或得到國外尋求幫助遠渡重陽飽受艱辛"},{"start":4622.079,"end":4640.087,"text":"花費大量的金錢要非常有錢的人才做得到不是普通百姓可以的臺灣的婦產科的升職合計跟產科的照顧都是全世界名列前茅的有能力做好代理育母的全程照護我們的臺灣同胞"},{"start":4641.926,"end":4661.704,"text":"我們有照顧弱勢婦女的責任我們也在手術中曾經被偵查到病人有艾滋病也經歷了SARS、COVID我們還是努力的在崗位上工作所以我們婦產科醫學會已使能是贊成代理孕母的立法謝謝"},{"start":4667.123,"end":4672.351,"text":"好我們謝謝臺灣婦產科醫學會理事長那接下來我們請陳昭之委員"},{"start":4683.025,"end":4705.224,"text":"主席還有各位在座的朋友這次民眾黨我們提出的這個人工生殖修法有幾個特色第一個是我們將單身女性還有具永久結合關係的同志伴侶就是同婚的伴侶還有因病沒有辦法懷孕或是需要剛剛醫師也提到某些狀況他需要需求代孕的病友納入我們希望讓這些人在這個"},{"start":4707.886,"end":4728.255,"text":"憲法平等權上可以享有家庭權跟生育自主權的保障所以我們認為完全不需要列入專法我們在這次民眾黨的版本也把調整了保障對象的順序我們把人工生殖的子女還有待孕者放在最優先優先來在法規的保障"},{"start":4728.715,"end":4728.735,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4747.569,"end":4747.61,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":4776.329,"end":4796.385,"text":"他涉及的要素可能更深入,而且據我了解,國建署沒有對捐金捐卵這個部分,尤其捐金部分有所追蹤,而且毫無資料那至於收養的部分,我自己收養小孩子的權益呢,社家數也是追蹤三年就結束了所以我覺得這個在子宮或收養部分,收養的部分他甚至涉及不止三個人"},{"start":4797.105,"end":4821.073,"text":"涉及四個人涉及兩代家庭包括我收養的孩子也曾經被他的親生祖父母這個誘拐回去長了37天那這個就是說請大家在討論事情的時候就這些人他的選項因為反對的都叫我們去收養小孩那當然台灣有一個錯誤觀念就是把不孕跟收養就放在連結那我現在要說明一下過去反對的他們擔心的理由"},{"start":4821.693,"end":4823.254,"text":"經歷了二、三十年的討論,有大概十到二十次的公聽會,因為時間太久了,1996年開始有大於二十次的專家會議,還有兩次的公民會議,2004年跟2012年,都是國家舉辦的公民會議"},{"start":4839.028,"end":4839.048,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4857.415,"end":4858.055,"text":"臺灣沒有同意待運,所以臺灣沒有資料"},{"start":4874.345,"end":4898.918,"text":"事實上代孕出生的子女跟傳統方式出生的子女他們的生理健康跟心理健康事實上是沒有差別這個是有科學實證第二個大家擔心工具化或物化的部分那我要談的就是說其實我想相信在座很多人都了解倫理學的精神因為很多人說這個是不倫理的倫理學最高的精神就是自主性那試問我可以逼迫一個女生幫我懷孕嗎基本上我認為代孕媽媽"},{"start":4902,"end":4906.846,"text":"他的自主性高過妻子高過媳婦高過這三位我們這三種我們認為就是在生育的一個女性第二個你如果不透過立法來法治化的話你要讓他在有知的情況下去進行他這個代孕那他的自主性加上這個他的正當性就會更高"},{"start":4920.823,"end":4931.851,"text":"所以事實上法治化是更有利於自主性的正當性另外有關經濟弱勢的部分我知道陳金輝委員也有收集一些相關的等一下我想他應該會有機會說明事實上根據研究包括287位加拿大的待遇媽媽其實她的教育程度在53%是大學畢業然後她50%是有工作的她不是經濟弱勢"},{"start":4946.181,"end":4966.652,"text":"那是不是說讓台灣人民不要再花大錢到國外去因為國外有三四個國家是同意代孕的但是只有有資源的人他有辦法到遠處地方去甚至到美國到烏克蘭等等那實際上花很多的錢反而讓台灣的人沒有相對經濟能力是有困難的那我想在當時我呼籲的是一個就是"},{"start":4970.034,"end":4970.074,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":4992.583,"end":5008.749,"text":"同理心 將心比心 成全別人 追求幸福這也是我3月26在總質詢的時候提給院長最後的一些想法那當然有人認為說當年的公聽會我在這裡特別聲明一下說我是逼迫那個院長幫我去 當然是署長去執行"},{"start":5011.01,"end":5018.092,"text":"公聽會：結果這個公民會議那當時我也這樣的請院長幫忙釐清那院長講得非常清楚大家也看這個質詢公民會議是院長透過這個專家學者建議他所做的臺灣第一次公民會議那我想將心比心非常重這也是為什麼我跟我先生當年在臺大醫學院念書我們是有資源找到醫師的我沒有能力找到黛玉媽媽但為什麼我們最後放棄曝光然後選擇要站出來呼籲黛玉姐姐"},{"start":5039.239,"end":5050.367,"text":"因為我們真的想幫助其他沒有資源的人所以我在想說應該是有資源來幫助沒有資源的人很多人的弱勢 有人不是經濟弱勢 有人是生育弱勢那是不是讓台灣成為一個有情有義我們來幫助別人成全幸福讓台灣成為這樣一個溫暖的社會 謝謝好 謝謝陳昭之委員接下來我們請財團法人厚生基金會執行長 陳伯同執行長"},{"start":5079.186,"end":5101.427,"text":"主席、各位今天參加的與會專家、政府官員、各位利害關係人大家好。今天討論的提綱範圍很廣,有些甚至是有一些技術性的問題,我認為其實應該在技術官僚的層面去處理,因為已經有超過33個國家已經有代理業務相關的法令,大家其實有討論得非常充分。"},{"start":5102.193,"end":5104.434,"text":"提綱的第一題是否取消婚姻議題的規定在2004年3月29日加拿大的國會就通過了《人工協助生育條例》"},{"start":5123.925,"end":5136.204,"text":"很多專家認為在加拿大的人工協助生育條例是世界上有關人工生殖最完整及最與時俱進的法律那我們來看一下這條法律上面怎麼寫的"},{"start":5138.531,"end":5158.878,"text":"這條法律的第二條裡面這邊寫 我就稍微念一下The Parliament of Canada recognizes and declares that persons who seek to undergo assisted reproduction procedure must not be discriminated against, including on the basis of their sexual orientation or marital status."},{"start":5159.398,"end":5175.533,"text":"就是這個法案這個國會告訴你說我們不能歧視受訴者的性向與婚姻狀況我個人認為加拿大的這條法律寫法就是我國最好的參考依據那接下來呢我想引述一句對大家都不太陌生的一個名言"},{"start":5177.247,"end":5197.74,"text":"我們認為下面這些真理是不正自明的人人生而平等造物者賦予他們若干不可剝奪的權利其中包括生命權自由權和追求幸福的權利1776年7月4號美國獨立宣言裡如此鏗鏘有力的道出人權的基本價值"},{"start":5198.701,"end":5219.291,"text":"人人生而平等在客觀的現實世界是不存在的有人天生英俊美麗或許出身富豪權貴之家或許天資聰穎或許身強體健同時也有人在上述這些內外條件上沒有那麼的幸運抽到好籤人生難免有時必須逆風而行"},{"start":5220.612,"end":5246.246,"text":"因為人會有先天上的客觀不平等在歷史上幾個重要的人權宣言如1776年美國的獨立宣言1789年法國人權及公民宣言和1948年的聯合國世界人權宣言中都強調了保障人人平等的基本人權在真實世界客觀人人不平等的情況下給所有人畫下一條應受保障的基本底線"},{"start":5247.83,"end":5273.246,"text":"今天我們在衛環委員會裡面討論是公共政策討論公共政策的時候就是必須要有公平正義的原則我上面這個圖其實就是知名美國的哲學家John Ross在他的Justice Theory他的正義論裡面提到的無知之木的概念為了追求公平正義我們不能預設自身的身體狀況社經地位學識財富等等就像這張圖所顯示的"},{"start":5275.407,"end":5275.567,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":5295.011,"end":5319.641,"text":"接下來我請大家看一下這四個人有什麼樣的共通點A先生到加拿大用自己的精子和捐贈者的卵子B女士到美國用自己的卵子和捐贈者的精子C先生到美國用自己的精子和捐贈者的卵子D女士是一個名人新聞都有寫2012年到美國用代理孕母生下三個孩子"},{"start":5320.54,"end":5337.907,"text":"大家他們有什麼共通點前面三個是我的朋友啊第四個大家自己新聞找ABCD這四個人都是中華民國的公民更重要的是他們都是社會上有錢有豐沛資源的人在國外透過代理孕母實現他們人生認為重要的幸福價值"},{"start":5340.011,"end":5367.807,"text":"我想沒有人會反對一個公平正義的社會但公平正義的社會是不是應該讓有充沛資源的人有機會沒有那麼多資源的人更沒有機會相對剝奪感不是一個好的社會的負能量不是一個需要的負能量剛剛陳昭智委員有提到同理心同理心是什麼I know exactly how you feel你屁股中了一劍很痛我屁股中了一劍也很痛就像圖這樣子這張圖這樣子"},{"start":5371.473,"end":5385.58,"text":"有一位需要人工代理孕母的人告訴過我當沒有醫療技術相關技術時是上天對他們殘忍但當醫療技術成熟時是社會是政府是反對者對他們殘忍"},{"start":5387.881,"end":5411.969,"text":"最後我還是要呼籲我們應該用最基本的人權價值來處理這個議題不管你是什麼顏色什麼出生生命權自由權及追求幸福的權利都應該是每個人擁有的基本人權以上謝謝大家好謝謝陳伯同執行長帶來的分享那接下來我們歡迎陳金輝委員"},{"start":5424.147,"end":5447.845,"text":"主席各位委員各位官員還有現場的學者專家代表大家早稍早我們發生瑞士7.2的強震所以各地災情不斷傳出也讓我們在這邊一同祈願全國人民都平安無事今天講的範圍真的非常大因此我希望可以簡短表述完我所有事項的看法首先我們先從人工生殖擴大適用的部分談起"},{"start":5449.046,"end":5468.137,"text":"雖然法律的修正常常是專業與知識的累積但每一個政策推動都有一個觸動人心的故事我們今天要談的更不止於此而是好多好多期待可以成為媽媽的夥伴們的故事其實我本身也是透過人工生殖才有機會有寶寶也都要經過懷孕分娩的過程我是一個三寶媽我永遠記得寶寶誕生小小皺皺的手"},{"start":5475.501,"end":5504.779,"text":"迎接他的到來媽媽做了很多很多努力與準備我們不只教他吃飯走路學習成長這樣子的母愛我想不管處於婚姻關係或沒有都不會有任何的差別這幾十年來呢我們的社會已經進步了很多台灣的單身率在今年達到新高52%但每一位台灣女性都知道時間呢是現實而殘酷的"},{"start":5506.988,"end":5507.008,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5521.988,"end":5539.876,"text":"每一位臺灣獨立女性都有資格選擇是否和何時走入這樣子的關係若我們還要用婚姻或是何種婚姻來加以限制女性是否生育其實真的太辛苦了是時候讓我們為所有想生的年輕人解開婚育一體的束縛"},{"start":5541.836,"end":5562.181,"text":"當一個媽媽並不容易必須要有無比的勇氣有歡笑淚水決心來面對成為一個母親的課題所有在場許多夥伴有著當媽媽的愛心有良好的社經地位和支持系統只需要法規做一些調整就可以成全他們養育生育台灣子女的人生願望我們何樂而不為呢"},{"start":5563.121,"end":5589.646,"text":"許多瑞典、英國、歐洲、英美的文獻經過年紀、心理、生理、醫療以及支持系統評估適用人工生殖而且研究後這些自願選擇單親的媽媽和一般生育的夫妻比受到的教育程度更高也有全職的工作社會是以很正向來看待這種狀態少子化是國安危機生育的平等權是憲法議題這些都是我們重視的"},{"start":5590.666,"end":5606.335,"text":"但更重要的是我們想讓我們的制度變得更有溫度協助每一位女性不管是單身或是另一位有伴侶都可以一生多愛一個人以媽媽的角色來圓滿自己的人生以上是我的第一個看法"},{"start":5608.444,"end":5634,"text":"再來我們今天可以齊聚在這邊各位專家學者官員委員都是一個很重要的里程碑因為我們再來談代理孕母的方式這個公聽會呢已經開了30年了還走不出一個結論但這是史上第一次在立法院的委員會召開公聽會有許許多多不孕症的夫妻包含陳昭芝委員就這樣痴痴的等"},{"start":5634.9,"end":5649.466,"text":"從年輕等到現在剛大家有看到女性生日的時間軸她已經再也沒有機會使用生殖技術生育孩子了在無數的黑夜裡哭泣這也是一群我們臺灣不孕症的人啊其實"},{"start":5650.226,"end":5666.574,"text":"我們早在民國85年就有開放待運的草案兩次公民會議20多次專家會議94年又擬了一個草案包含我們現在賴準總統還有陳建仁委員長都是代理育母的倡議者"},{"start":5667.734,"end":5681.522,"text":"但我們卻花了30年才能夠來到立法院這個民意匯集的殿堂中好好的來討論所以我說這是一個重大的突破也是里程碑還是要感謝所有願意貴賓代表專家的參與"},{"start":5683.959,"end":5710.283,"text":"接下來呢我想提提我們衛福部的報告這次針對立法院公聽會衛福部報告實在邏輯不通啊不瞞各位說當初與很多官員討論他們告訴我說人工生殖法要跟代理母透過確實是一個醫學專業上很不好想像的事情因為從生殖醫學角度兩者是高度重疊應該一起規範也是我所贊同的但"},{"start":5711.104,"end":5730.405,"text":"衛福部的報告竟然說在徵詢所有團體的意見後預計納入異性夫妻跟同性配偶施行代孕升值但在召開最近兩次極度混亂的公聽會因為臉書直播留言區搜集民眾意見因為留言者意見已反對代孕者居多就退縮了"},{"start":5730.945,"end":5743.882,"text":"想當初你們花了這麼多錢召開公民審議會議還有委託專業的民意機關所做兩次民意調查一次過半一次八成都贊成有條件代理育母都不算數了嗎"},{"start":5745.27,"end":5763.304,"text":"我很想問當代理當同婚合法化的時候網友的留言比現在更多反對你們有退縮嗎沒有當同志爭取收養權利的時候也有人大肆的批評同志不能給孩子正常家庭你們退縮了嗎也沒有"},{"start":5764.165,"end":5786.326,"text":"今天代理一模各式醫療的議題治療不孕症的議題人權生育的議題只因為留言區的網友反對就不能推動那我看我們政府的部會首長很多早就應該要下台了因為這樣子的報告實在是不及格或許衛福部應該針對從很久以前許許多多你們所提出的草案逐條來給出專業意見"},{"start":5788.968,"end":5809.209,"text":"不好意思 最後我想表達 這次很多爭議是出在仲介機構 是目前我們認為最制度化的環節我們規定仲介機構必須要公益性 這就已經阻斷了盈利性的可能上一任第10屆各黨派委員 包括現在在場的委員所提出的代理運母版本"},{"start":5809.89,"end":5825.869,"text":"原本是參考過往衛福部的草案因為代孕涉及了專業性技術性所以在條文上先以較彈性的方式授權行政機關另訂辦法然後我們也注意到社會各界對於中介人"},{"start":5827.55,"end":5850.047,"text":"這個謹慎檢視將是這次代孕修法的關鍵所以我本人也正在研擬將諮詢協調契約簽訂的細節一定要在公益代孕機構進行而且充分保障代孕者的權益還有自主性我們要把它寫得更清楚也希望拋磚引玉鼓勵行政單位有勇氣把更專業的草案提出來"},{"start":5851.912,"end":5876.081,"text":"想留給各位最後一句話有一位公開為性別平權發聲的香港歌手盧凱彤曾經說過你的完美有點難懂但不代表世界不能包容這個社會中有許多不同多元伴侶配偶期待一個孩子來圓滿家庭為我們的少子化盡一份心力卻因為疾病受到的困擾"},{"start":5876.561,"end":5876.661,"text":"委員會公聽會（"},{"start":5908.402,"end":5909.202,"text":"臨月勤委員"},{"start":5928.393,"end":5938.281,"text":"我想人工生殖大概就是民間所慣稱的我們的事管嬰兒我們今天應該討論的是誰可以使用這個人工生殖的技術"},{"start":5939.671,"end":5964.294,"text":"因為我們結婚率事實上是越來越低當然也面對到的是我們的初婚年齡越來越高一直往上升還有越來越多人是選擇單身撫養子女的也可以看到從民國81年的2.21%逐年升到112年4.12%而且未認養的會分身女子子女的比例上從1.45也上升到2.5億"},{"start":5966.581,"end":5987.21,"text":"可是年輕的時候有些人可能就選擇了動軟可是我們法律有個障礙就是可動軟可是好像不可以輕易的來解凍使用因為要達到這樣子的一個解凍使用可能會有一些要件在從2020年到2020年在達到醫院動軟後平均使用大概8.4可是在美國的話這個一個比例大概38%"},{"start":5995.476,"end":6018.848,"text":"他們當然也期待是不是可以讓他們可以能夠自由來使用可是首次動卵的人次跟年齡的確也是平均年齡下降因為我想保有我自己的生育能力那從2022年大概人數事實上是2018年的7倍動卵的平均年齡也從2012年的39.1歲到2022年的35.2歲"},{"start":6023.072,"end":6023.352,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6038.74,"end":6038.9,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6070.024,"end":6093.53,"text":"臺灣人工生殖事實上技術也比國外好成功率也非常高也很安全而且相對事實上是便宜的我們的臺灣生殖醫學會也發佈了這樣子的一個成果成功率大概是全球排名第二僅次於美國而且平均價格低於香港跟菲律賓跟新加坡的大概價格是40%而已"},{"start":6096.621,"end":6124.764,"text":"如果我們在人工受孕在臺灣的話一次療程是1.5萬到3萬塊可是試管嬰兒的話要13萬到25萬衛福部的確有一些補助那最高最高也是到40萬可是如果在臺灣不適合人工生殖的這些群體呢他就必須到國外去做那這個依照我們臺灣同志家庭權益促進會服務眾多同志家庭經驗當中"},{"start":6125.748,"end":6126.228,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6144.912,"end":6145.052,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":6171.271,"end":6174.793,"text":"臺灣為什麼會一直在有這樣子的一個禁止從剛剛陳經緯委員講到說30年又再30年我覺得事實上是有很多爭議事實上是沒有辦法去解決的尤其我剛剛前面提的時候已經有很多兒少團體對於要開放就已經從"},{"start":6199.161,"end":6201.703,"text":"暫停時間喔不好意思我們先暫停一下先暫停一下"},{"start":6236.192,"end":6249.143,"text":"哇,這麼久?真的很久?對啊,晚上都沒跳下來,早上一整場沒跳下來這很久了耶,好長時間行為委員,會議後面的那一位"},{"start":6263.415,"end":6264.675,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6295.202,"end":6299.864,"text":"臺灣事實上的確有52歲的阿嬤在幫自己的女兒做代理孕母"},{"start":6322.956,"end":6346.517,"text":"到底要叫媽媽還是叫外婆呢這有一些人倫上的一些問題還有懷胎才有母親嗎有懷孩子才能夠愛小孩可是如果未懷孕了是不是就不愛小孩這些問題點到底能不能在這事當中有能夠一一的去解決那更重要的是我覺得對我來自兒少團體的話"},{"start":6348.246,"end":6352.724,"text":"依照額權公約第3條就有規定要考量到最佳利益"},{"start":6353.462,"end":6383.031,"text":"然後也應該要有知道他身世的知情權所以美國生殖協會他的倫理委員會就特別提醒說應該告知受捐贈者的後代期受孕方式跟捐贈者的特徵來符合兒童最佳利益甚至越早讓他們知道的話是會是越好的因為在如果學齡前知道的話能夠按照時間來一一的跟他去說明這些事情所以在這邊有幾個提醒就是要告知那另外一個就是"},{"start":6383.806,"end":6401.755,"text":"可﹐可以針對於親屬關係的保護在法律明定人工生殖子女跟捐贈者的關係是要去確定還有尼治瘦數人的配偶為親生的話與胚胎形成的時候已經確定也就是說如果事實上他還是透過"},{"start":6403.306,"end":6403.586,"text":"主席"},{"start":6433.118,"end":6435.979,"text":"今天現場有來自我們政府各部會的代表有來自我們民間的專業"},{"start":6457.062,"end":6477.191,"text":"代表來自醫學界來自法律界來自社福界的代表出席還有我們立法院的各位同仁我又記得在我們人工生殖法訂定的時候那時候我是一個大學四年級的學生那當時我跟我們學校的台大女媛社"},{"start":6477.981,"end":6506.927,"text":"一起參與了聯署的抗議因為我們認為現行的人工生殖法是對於單身女性是對於女性的生育自主權的一個前置及限制所以今天我能夠來參與由我們立法院召開的人工生殖法修正草案的公聽會我認為這個人工生殖法已經來到了必須要修正"},{"start":6507.507,"end":6532.263,"text":"必須要保障單身女性以及女同志生育自主權的時刻等這麼一刻我們等了非常多年深如剛剛前面很多委員所提到了我們等了很久了召開公聽會就是為了要收集來自社會各界不同的意見以利我們的行政部門來訂定出草案"},{"start":6533.204,"end":6557.556,"text":"來定定出未來可以來施行的法律那我想公聽會開始就是收集意見的開始那我們不能只有聽一聽就結束了最重要的是後續我們要去進行人工生殖法的修法關於人工生殖法應該要如何修訂成如剛剛前面很多委員所說的這是一個困難的議題"},{"start":6558.696,"end":6559.157,"text":"立法院法治局提出的建議"},{"start":6574.079,"end":6592.876,"text":"我們現行的人工生殖法基本從法律層面來說是違反了憲法所保障的生育權以及健康權因為現行的法治架構是以疾病治療為立論出發所以當單身女性及女同志"},{"start":6594.195,"end":6618.305,"text":"沒有在這樣的架構理念的時候我們的生育自主權是沒有獲得保障是獲得歧視的同時現行的人工生殖法也違背了台灣國家人權委員會所指出的違背了目前憲法所給予保障的平等權所以我非常的希望在今天的公聽會之後我們的行政部門能夠來加速來"},{"start":6623.169,"end":6642.905,"text":"規納來自社會各界的討論特別是人工生殖法從制定至今我們經歷了很大的社會變遷其中一點就是我們的法治也變遷了我們台灣已經是一個同婚合法化的國家所以相關配套的法律"},{"start":6643.425,"end":6643.445,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":6661.977,"end":6690.099,"text":"我們在人生的什麼樣的時刻能否走進婚姻或者有沒有意願走進婚姻這是女性的選擇權那我們能不能夠來生育生養孩子這同時也是女性的選擇權所以今天站在這個地方我必須要去傳達來自社會很多單身女性目前所遇到的困擾我記得很多朋友在這幾年都有去動亂"},{"start":6691.44,"end":6713.952,"text":"因為我們是年過35歲到40歲之前這段時間的單身女性所以還保有這個選擇權還在人生的十字路口的時候非常的擔心因為時間生理上面的因素我們過了一個時間會不會就沒有失去了這樣的選擇權但是呢這些單身女性去動亂"},{"start":6715.553,"end":6723.238,"text":"卻因為他沒有選擇婚姻他沒有法律上面的配偶事實上是卵子是沒有辦法解凍的所以這樣子的困擾我認為我們政府一定要去正視有這麼多單身女性目前正在面臨生命當中的難題政府不能無視啊這修法當然有很多意見上面整合的困難但我希望我們可以趕快"},{"start":6744.113,"end":6761.782,"text":"政府應該了做單身女性的後盾同時我也是來自於單親家庭那因為父親早逝由我的母親養育我們三個孩子長大我知道社會上還有一些人會擔心說這個單親家庭對孩子的養育會不會有什麼樣的問題"},{"start":6763.962,"end":6788.247,"text":"事實上沒有任何科學資料顯示單親家庭對孩子的成長會有什麼樣的影響我們沒有任何這樣的科學資料所以我希望我們可以趕快這不只是要去修正保障我們憲法原本就賦予的權利很多社會當中的單身女性女同志正在就是面臨生命當中這麼樣的"},{"start":6790.034,"end":6790.214,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":6810.92,"end":6826.474,"text":"謝謝吳委員委員會宣告等下12號劉志宏教授發表完畢後我們接近11點休息5分鐘接下來請戴宇儒教授發言國立政治大學法學院法律系教授"},{"start":6831.583,"end":6847.9,"text":"主席、各位委員、部會代表以及各位與會的先進專家大家好我想今天我就從我自己本身這個長年在婚姻家庭法治研究的一個立場上以及在觀察台灣社會家庭變遷的一個立法的經過當中提出針對這個"},{"start":6854.026,"end":6854.928,"text":"提出以下的意見"},{"start":6869.204,"end":6893.132,"text":"因此在人工生殖施術的適用對象還是不宜無所限制那我剛有提到在整個民法親屬邊的發展過程當中我們越來越以這個子女的一個利益作為這個最高的一個保護的一個原則所以在人工生殖底下自然應該要與人工生殖所出生子女的利益作為最優先的考量"},{"start":6894.432,"end":6916.345,"text":"在婚育一體的現行法當中我們讓具有法律上身份保障的夫妻可以因為疾病而無法自然生育底下藉由人工生殖的方式來生育子女主要的會比照跟自然生育相同確保子女出生後同時會有法定的雙親得以照料同時也會有穩定成長的環境"},{"start":6917.626,"end":6943.923,"text":"那剛剛有提到在臺灣社會家庭結構的變遷底下我們家庭組成的形式就開始日趨多元所以就面臨到我們人工生殖的施術對象是否應與擴大那我覺得應該要遵守我剛剛上述提到的原則所以呢人工生殖施術的對象在異性夫妻之外可不可以延展到其他的對象包括同婚配偶同居伴侶或是單身者"},{"start":6944.824,"end":6972.875,"text":"也區分他是男性或女性我們考量的情況都有不同那以開放同性配偶為例這個之前有多位已經提過了在這個748號解釋施行法的規定底下同性配偶已經可以經由結婚登記獲得法律保障的地位有比較穩固的身份關係所以呢在這個前提底下他就是等於有雙親可以對人工生殖子女來進行保護教養那至於同居伴侶雖然"},{"start":6974.275,"end":6974.295,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":6997.961,"end":6998.121,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7015.752,"end":7040.109,"text":"因此單身女性生育權的保障：跟她所生人工生殖子女利益的維護：就成為必須權衡的重要關鍵我今天想提出的是我想舉德國的一個例子德國在立法倡議要不要開放人工生殖技術給單身女性的時候德國國會在2021年就針對單身女性可不可以提出"},{"start":7041.089,"end":7066.028,"text":"可被施行人工生殖提出了三份的研究報告分別關於單身女性呢在使用人工生殖的社會背景調查對於這個單身女性使用捐贈精子所生子女的利益評估這是第二份第三份呢是單身女性用捐精方式所出生的人工生殖子女的親子地位不好意思教授我們再暫停一下下要小心喔暫停一下下"},{"start":7069.07,"end":7070.433,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":7089.366,"end":7089.666,"text":"教授我們請繼續"},{"start":7114.161,"end":7142.763,"text":"子女是因為他進行高等教育的訓練所導致的那其中有40%的女性的確是處於單身的狀況那第二份報告就強調了這個單身女性失數之後呢只有註定單親我要怎麼去評估對於子女利益的影響那特別就由憲法或其他更高位階的這個法源來對子女利益作為評估那討論子女是不是一定要受有雙親的保障那第三份研究報告"},{"start":7143.404,"end":7143.424,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7162.671,"end":7163.752,"text":"人工生殖法條文修正草案"},{"start":7183.971,"end":7206.144,"text":"缺乏子宮的部分那就涉及了長年來這個代理育母的爭議那這個之前有很多已經提過了那在這邊透過代理育母就會產生我們說的親子關係的認定上或者懷胎過程對於代孕者身體自主權的保護都可能造成很多的爭議包括委託夫妻不願接受有缺陷的子女或者是這個"},{"start":7207.185,"end":7207.205,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7237.485,"end":7252.012,"text":"委員有提到這個不同層次那針對同性配偶或單身他是在現行法的一個結構底下比較容易施行的那代孕因為牽涉到非常多的一個爭議包括了代孕契約的擬定"},{"start":7252.332,"end":7252.512,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7273.957,"end":7274.878,"text":"謝謝教授接下來我們請黃婕緯委員發言"},{"start":7313.902,"end":7333.896,"text":"好謝謝主席在座各位貴賓大家好我用這個好那其實這個人工生殖法我在總諮詢的時候就有提出過了那我今天再次針對我的立場來發言首先是我認為就是今年5月我們已經同科上路已經五週年了"},{"start":7334.276,"end":7361.343,"text":"我希望說在這個會期我們一起把這個婚姻平權最後一塊的拼圖來拼上就是把這個人工生殖法順利的來進行修法希望就在這個會期有結果那當時衛福部也承諾說希望這個會期可以把他們的版本送出來那我的目標就是希望說可以消除我們對性傾向跟婚姻狀態的差別待遇讓同志跟單身的生育權跟成家權都能夠被平等的保障"},{"start":7361.983,"end":7379.782,"text":"那首先要講一下就是根據我國多元性別生活狀況的調查現在20到29歲然後30到39歲的同志族群他們願意生養小孩的意願高達四成跟三成六也就是說同志族群對於生育是有需求而且他們也很願意生的"},{"start":7380.322,"end":7403.117,"text":"那我覺得現在台灣大家都在講小子話在講國安危機那有人願意生同志家庭也很願意生而且他們的家庭也非常的有能力生為什麼不讓他們生呢應該是政府要幫他們鼓掌幫他們多多鼓勵才對可是在現行的人工生殖制度裡面只有開放給異性戀的不孕夫妻也就是說在這個人工生殖法裡面明顯還是"},{"start":7403.957,"end":7404.818,"text":"臺大醫院動卵的平均使用率只有8.4%"},{"start":7431.331,"end":7446.128,"text":"那背後的原因就是因為現在的人工生殖法必須要求要存在婚姻狀態才能作為使用人工生殖的必要條件也就是如果單身女性她動了很久可是一直都沒有找到對象"},{"start":7446.909,"end":7461.413,"text":"那他就沒有辦法去解凍他的卵子來進行生育可是其實在大法官的解釋當中並沒有說生育權跟婚姻一定要綁在一起為什麼呢大家可以去看現在其實單身者本來就可以收養這是現有保障的權利然後你要使用產檢你要使用育兒補助"},{"start":7465.014,"end":7492.3,"text":"你要使用這個國家給的社會福利都不需要經過婚姻關係也就是不一定要在婚姻狀態的情況下你才可以生育啊既然生育權也是我們憲法所保障的權利為什麼在人工生殖法裡面卻要這樣子限制呢所以我希望就是針對單身女性還有目前我們討論的女同志至少可以先行開放來當成這個人工生殖法在這個會期我們共同開放的目標"},{"start":7493.22,"end":7514.167,"text":"那當然也有人會說在孩子的成長過程當中如果父親缺席了好像我們在刻意製造一種單親家庭然後有可能會減損兒童的最佳利益那這個當然是一種偏見為什麼呢因為其實我在總質詢也有講過其實有非常多的研究顯示說你在一個家庭能不能健康快樂的長大"},{"start":7515.387,"end":7530.315,"text":"跟你的家庭結構沒有關係而是跟你的家庭關係才有關係什麼意思就是如果他在成長的過程當中看到爸媽一直在衝突一直在吵架然後看到家裡有非常多產生非常讓他有兒童陰影的一些經驗那這種生長經驗反而會造成他的生長狀態沒有辦法有非常健康的身心所以比起家庭結構我認為家庭關係才是最重要的"},{"start":7544.483,"end":7559.222,"text":"所以是不是單親我不認為是會 等於是說不代表你是單親你就在刻意製造家庭的陰影或刻意製造家庭的不幸這個是毫無科學根據而且也是對於單親家庭的一種嚴重的歧視"},{"start":7560.976,"end":7584.219,"text":"所以我希望在我的版本裡面除了針對單身女性還有女同志之外我也有細緻的討論關於動卵的使用跟棄用的規範因為我認為對於現在女性在使用動卵需要更多更嚴格的醫療規範那除此之外我也認為針對子女他應該要有他的身世的知悉權那這個也是保障子女非常重要的一個權利"},{"start":7585.22,"end":7596.324,"text":"那最後講到這個代孕的部分因為確實代孕現在很多人覺得比較有爭議那既然有爭議是為什麼呢是因為現在的草案的設計如果真的要進行到代孕的討論還是太以委託人為中心了也就是說被你委託的這個代孕的孕母本身並沒有去討論他的權益"},{"start":7606.127,"end":7609.49,"text":"就是我們應該要針對這個育母有更細緻的保護而且現在草案對於這一塊是非常非常空白的所以代表說我們沒有辦法去討論育母她自己的身體的自主權沒有辦法去認定她更明確的侵權那甚至也沒有辦法因此來保護子女的最佳利益"},{"start":7625.242,"end":7640.887,"text":"所以我認為如果要討論大理孕母可以但是必須要在非常更細緻的討論之上包括說這個孕母的他的權益他必須要有更多的保護更多的討論不能說在影響他的自主決定權身體自主權之下"},{"start":7641.787,"end":7651.77,"text":"就來進行這樣的開放然後可能會導致基於人情或者是一些階級甚至權勢甚至是身體剝削的狀態產生那以上是我的發言我希望大家可以共同的有共識然後讓這個人工生殖法在這個會期順利的通過來保障所有願意生育的人也應該要鼓勵臺灣願意生的人就應該讓他們有能力生又願意生"},{"start":7670.276,"end":7670.476,"text":"何樂而不為"},{"start":7705.133,"end":7727.332,"text":"大家好我是洪森漢其實今天算起來已經是我大概這半年第4次參與人工生殖法的公聽會了其實在去年10月的時候上個會期立法院我就主辦了一場人工生殖法的公聽會那當然那場公聽會上面大家是呼籲說女同志單身女性盡快的可以適用人工生殖法"},{"start":7728.132,"end":7754.181,"text":"在最近國建署舉辦的兩場公聽會我也出席了當然今天我們也來到現場每次的公聽會其實都非常重要其實現在很多人當然都談到帶孕母有關相關的倫理或配套的問題或者是孕母的權益的保障確實目前我們也檢視了現在人工生殖法的版本來看我們大概看了一下現在在黨委員的版本"},{"start":7754.921,"end":7779.6,"text":"看起來比較多的條文是傾向從需求者跟這個委託者的角度來去出發那看起來對於孕母的權益的保障著墨是比較少一點的那所以這部分當然我自己也想聽聽看等下專家學者們更進一步的討論可是確實是有沒有現在能夠短期其實有一個相對比較成熟比較共識的做法當然我們自己也在觀察這一點"},{"start":7780.734,"end":7800.941,"text":"那可是這個我還是要強調這個今天我們在未完文會在審查接下來要審查的時候我還是比較傾向主張哦其實必須優先處理女同志配偶跟單身女性自主決定動軟後使用自管應用相關的程序哦"},{"start":7801.641,"end":7827.603,"text":"那我自己認為第一個這部分共識度是比較高的然後第二個在時間點上在修法的時程上面我是覺得也可以比較快速也比較單純的競速來先做處理那今天題目裡面當然有討論到一個關於婚育體的問題所以我還是要表達說我其實對於婚育脫鉤這件事情的支持因為我們已經看過太多大概跟我年紀差不多30到40歲左右的女性"},{"start":7828.544,"end":7846.585,"text":"其實他們非常非常抗拒進入到婚姻但卻又希望有小孩所以這個這樣子的心願可是現在在我們的法規裡面卻很難達成那當然現在我也聽到很多人在擔心開放單身女性適用這步法是不是會有所謂製造單親家庭這樣子的問題"},{"start":7847.746,"end":7866.194,"text":"這其實在之前的兩場公聽會裡面其實我們都聽到非常多那針對這一點我覺得大家應該進一步更往下的討論其實就現實層面上來說不管雙親或單親其實我們都看到很多的都是有家庭悲劇包括暴力包括缺乏愛的情境的發生"},{"start":7866.954,"end":7885.349,"text":"那無論是雙親或單親其實我們也都看到其實他們是有能夠創造幸福或愛護下一代的能力那我想講一個比較新的目前3月剛出爐的統計數據根據行政院主計總處的統計我們現在的單人家庭已經突破"},{"start":7885.849,"end":7909.36,"text":"一百三十五萬戶了那我們的單親家庭也已經突破92萬戶了那這個數字其實從民國91年到111年其實這20年比例是不斷的在提升增高的那這20年來其實家庭形態早就默默的在改變並不是我們現在在修人工生殖法的時候才開始改變的並不是其實早就默默在改變的包括"},{"start":7910.3,"end":7938.651,"text":"離婚率的提高包括單親家庭比例的上升其實現在的當代的社會是存在越來越多離婚的單親家庭而這些單親家庭現在此時此刻其實他們也發展出很多維持教養功能的方式這就是事實這就是現況所以我要問的事情是說我們過去在設定有一個設定異性婚姻或者不離婚這就等於是小孩幸福美滿這樣的前提"},{"start":7939.511,"end":7948.341,"text":"真的還是牢不可破嗎?所以最後我要說其實我們目前的法規是允許單親收養小孩的所以"},{"start":7950.03,"end":7975.59,"text":"開放單身女性使用失管嬰兒的療程我是希望能夠建議國健所具體建議國健所在我們布版的草案中其實是可以比照衛福部社家署單身收養的法律條件跟流程那放入包括他的照顧計劃財務規劃監護規劃來減低社會大眾對於說是不是開放單身女性就叫做製造單親家庭的疑慮"},{"start":7976.411,"end":7976.851,"text":"中文字幕提供"},{"start":8006.731,"end":8029.598,"text":"能夠過的盡快趕快來過因為大家真的有很多時間上的焦慮其實每一分每一秒對於很想生育的這些族群來說其實都是時間上面的心理的壓力甚至是一些折磨那能夠的我們盡快過那我自己覺得對於待遇的部分來說我是覺得我很願意一起參與這些待遇後續的討論"},{"start":8030.618,"end":8059.65,"text":"但就像剛剛一開始提到的這些倫理的問題不只是倫理包括很多權益的問題這些權益的問題跟關係的界定是不是在一個人工生殖法尤其是比較強調這個技術管理包括機構管理胚胎管理這樣子的法律裡面是不是放進來還是有其他我們在立法方法上面的其他的選擇我覺得我也很想再聽聽今天後續的一些專家學者的意見但能過的我覺得趕快過所以這是我為什麼支持脫鉤處理的原因謝謝"},{"start":8062.082,"end":8065.144,"text":"主席各位貴賓以及各位學者專家很高興有這個機會有做一些發言那我是一個比較早等於是我們台灣在做試管嬰兒的"},{"start":8088.923,"end":8103.403,"text":"開始的這個開創者之一所以我們擔負了也不少責任可能有沒有做錯做對做錯有沒有設立一個好的制度都是有責任的那我在美國是接受了三年的所謂post-doc fellowship"},{"start":8104.323,"end":8126.479,"text":"做生殖醫學的治專科正式訓練開始關心這個議題以來這麼多年我覺得還是會站在病人立場去替他們想事情我覺得在我這麼在看好幾萬人的病人裡面我開始發現一些病人來都講到要哭我跟他們設立一個所謂傷心檔案就是說病人留下來看能怎麼替他們解決"},{"start":8127.299,"end":8139.13,"text":"這裡面最多的其實是當時就是一些,跟大家想的不一樣,是一些想要生男生女的他們生不出兒子或女兒,會被家庭拋棄,被先生拋棄"},{"start":8143.334,"end":8160.866,"text":"那再來就是陳昭志女士的代孕還有很多就是單親的婦女我們有些家暴的婦女她很想有小孩但是她也不敢再結婚這其實不少那所以這些我覺得很困惑是"},{"start":8161.586,"end":8185.306,"text":"在我美國的訓練跟美國的經驗這不是太大的問題美國重視民權重視權力重視倫理重視很多的細節那我們不會那麼難去學習所以在當時我最早做的一件事情就是把我的需要代孕的病人送到美國去然後當時我們的我發現我們政府單位對這個完全不熟悉"},{"start":8186.067,"end":8215.008,"text":"所以我的病人我找了三個過去請我們的政府官員申請結尾跟著他們過去也請當時的陳世元醫師能夠一個醫生過去然後看那個病人怎麼從接觸代孕仲介公司等於是我們現在的居間服務公司開始跟醫生跟代孕者怎麼去互動怎麼去討論我覺得那一次的造訪對這些官員們他們有個全盤的看法後來這些官員都非常熱心他們做了很多很正確的決定"},{"start":8221.132,"end":8239.318,"text":"主要我們是看這個居間服務怎麼做的因為這是很重要的一個環節如果做不好就引起很多的社會的爭議當時請到的就是有一些是專業的律師還有一個律師是本身是接受待遇以後他開始去念法律去做這方面的事情"},{"start":8239.998,"end":8253.177,"text":"都非常有很感人的故事當時我記得這位律師在講的是我們台灣有一些教授起來跟他質疑說你在居間服務的話你收費嗎那他說我收費的他說你這是不是不應該收費那這位"},{"start":8256.912,"end":8278.762,"text":"律師跟他說,請問教授你開刀收賄嗎?他說我收賄。那我們做的事情有什麼不同?我們都是在以專業在服務病人。這是這樣的一個感覺。所以我覺得說我們在這麼多年,其實美國走在我們前面很久了,英國也是一樣,他們有很完備的一個進程,他們也追蹤這些病人,非常完整。"},{"start":8279.282,"end":8295.273,"text":"我們在做好的這個安排並不困難,所以我不想談細節,但是還有時間我要談一下就是說,我們台灣現在有四管嬰兒,全世界大概一千萬個四管嬰兒,我們台灣大概每五十位有一位四管嬰兒,所以影響大概二十分之一的家庭"},{"start":8296.053,"end":8321.15,"text":"那這裡我們有沒有投資足夠的資源,事實上沒有英國有5500萬人口,我們台灣是他的,他是我們的兩倍半英國有一個叫做HFEA,就是我們台灣跟英國很相似是我們有法律去mandate必須要去有相當的申報跟管理,很多國家沒有但是英國的HFEA有65個工作人員組織完祕"},{"start":8326.255,"end":8326.978,"text":"市管業中心怎麼樣進步"},{"start":8328.26,"end":8356.005,"text":"那他同時也是追蹤這些自買嬰兒我們擔心的這些將來所謂單親所謂代孕這些他們都有很完備的追蹤同時最重要是他們是會推動公共政策主動提案不是說我們好久我覺得我們很多開了很多會然後像我覺得代孕母是講過兩次都已經幾乎大家認為說是可以去提案了但是遇到選舉就全部賣下來這樣轉眼30點過去非常痛心"},{"start":8356.565,"end":8372.149,"text":"像這樣的HFA他們就是可以持續的討論問題持續的提案他們之前提出說英國應該像北歐國家一樣只能植入一個胚胎把多巴胎把它降下來這是全世界重要的議題所以這個多巴胎降下來以後這些費用可以"},{"start":8372.609,"end":8387.688,"text":"用來照顧著想的費用可以用來補助自我營養並沒有增加費用等等他們率先做了這個事情那另外他們也是對於說捐卵是不是需要disclosure就這個質疑有沒有需要了解這個父母他們做了很多的討論不是說開會才討論"},{"start":8390.07,"end":8416.847,"text":"然後他們也做了很多的guidelines我希望我們的政府單位在立法的時候注意這一點我們需要很多工作人員投入台灣最少需要30個人員來管這個事情你才有辦法把我們所謂關心這些人的利益他的權利都是需要持續不斷的討論也不需要很多公聽會美國認為說只要每個議題找5個不同情況的當事人來談他們就可以找出很好的意見在裡面"},{"start":8417.948,"end":8436.405,"text":"所以20個人的公民會議也是有相當的一個參考價值我希望我們能夠以這個方向來做好這件事情作為一個臨場醫生對病人是充滿同情的我覺得這些都是我們社會欠他的那他們很多相當程度是一個殘障的一個情況我覺得我們是會站在病人這一邊謝謝"},{"start":8439.042,"end":8439.502,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8568.629,"end":8569.65,"text":"你可以跟向哪一邊"},{"start":8576.163,"end":8576.852,"text":"我們掌握不到"},{"start":8968.442,"end":8978.703,"text":"我們繼續會議的進行下一位我們請陳崇洋教授東武大學法學院暨法律學系助理教授發言"},{"start":8986.614,"end":9015.373,"text":"主席還有各位委員各位專家學者大家好我是東吳大學法律系陳崇洋第一次發言那我想我這6分鐘時間那等這6分鐘大約等了也20幾年我20幾年前在這邊當立法院助理短暫的當過助理那時候也是召開過類似的公聽會那20年後非常榮幸有機會來這邊做這個發言事實上在一兩年前有跟鄭大魯老師合作過一些"},{"start":9016.554,"end":9037.288,"text":"人工生殖的一些修正案的一個研究那我兩年前也有發表一篇文章是討論有關代理孕母是不是違反公序兩署的學術文章那那一次發表那篇文章剛好是2020年5月立法院一睹通過人工生殖的一些相關的一個草案"},{"start":9037.828,"end":9055.272,"text":"那從我是從法學角度去觀察那我發現說在那之後我們的法院判決也一樣認定說在當下當然現在因為草案還沒通過所以還是以目前的現行法來講還是都被認定為是違反公序兩屬的一個做法"},{"start":9055.532,"end":9072.643,"text":"那有一位應該是我不認識的聯友就視訊我他看了我那篇文章他非常感動因為我的立場是認為說法院在這一個在那個時候說戴雲母的這個行為是違反公序兩屬是我認為是有問題的因為立法院已經一睹通過了"},{"start":9073.504,"end":9095.336,"text":"立法院代表是我們中華民國最高的民意機構那如果法院要說它是違反公序兩屬必須要清楚明白的告訴我們什麼是公序兩屬但是很可惜的法院依然用所謂的違反社會高度倫理性就是一貫的這幾十年來常用這種高度極度抽象的法律用詞說對它就是違反公序兩屬那我認為這是值得後續討論的"},{"start":9098.377,"end":9099.619,"text":"人工生殖法條文修正草案公聽會議"},{"start":9116.394,"end":9137.874,"text":"從這個一層設定的提綱主一報告我個人的一些看法第一個提綱是這個生育自主權是不是應該要依舊維持所謂的婚育一體的規定擴大適用對象那我想我的結論是認為應該要擴大因為以結婚為前提才能施做人工生殖技術的限制我想並不實際"},{"start":9139.415,"end":9162.19,"text":"許多國家的人工生殖法的一個立法目的當然我們知道說都不在於刻意去創造生命透過生殖技術去創造生命他是在做輔助公寓那麼人工生殖技術當然是這幾十年才有的一個現代的一個技術那他的服務雖然在早期來講是以服務婚姻家庭為單位有需求的不孕夫妻為開端所以"},{"start":9163.07,"end":9163.09,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9181.428,"end":9201.462,"text":"婚育一體跟婚育分離兩者之間,我們說目前這樣的一個立法狀態並沒有辦法去凸顯出一個正當化的理由為什麼要去歧視所謂這些單身這樣的一個做法而且現今社會上的風氣,我想是不是一定要透過婚姻才可以有小孩這件事情"},{"start":9202.463,"end":9220.457,"text":"在目前來講應該也不會受到道德的一個非難我記得我在念大學的時候20 30年前念大學的時候我還有學姊因為懷孕未婚懷孕被退學但現在有可能會因為這樣被退學嗎所以有沒有婚姻跟有沒有小孩事實上是應該要做不同的一個處理"},{"start":9221.798,"end":9250.31,"text":"何況我們民法1064條也有談到準正的規定準正的話當然就是說你先小孩先出生爸爸媽媽後來再結婚了那我們一樣給予一個法律的一個保障所以在那邊我們其實也並沒有去歧視所謂的未婚然後才有小孩這件事情所以如果說將來的立法一再堅持所謂的婚育議題我認為說可能看不出所謂限制的一個正當性何在"},{"start":9252.531,"end":9261.339,"text":"人工生殖的修正要進一步協助缺乏職工或因疾病無法自行生育的配偶"},{"start":9264.622,"end":9291.427,"text":"民調的數據雖然說還是有不少所謂的這個民調數據告訴我們說反對開放單身施行人工生殖但我認為那是對於人工生殖的施術對象有所誤解所造成的一個結果那民調會反對是因為他們沒有把所謂的生理不運跟社會不運兩個所混淆就像我剛講的人工生殖的意義不在於創造生命是在幫助這些有需求的人所以目前來講我認為說"},{"start":9294.287,"end":9322.057,"text":"最大的共識至少是對於生理不孕這一批有需求者必須要提供給他一個生殖技術的一個協助而不是要繼續糾結在所謂的結婚或不結婚這樣的一個限制那第三個提剛講到的是大家最關切就是代理孕母如果一旦要開放那他整個相關的程序跟配套措施至少這是一個牽涉到所謂代孕者還有委託"},{"start":9323.257,"end":9323.417,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9338.912,"end":9359.454,"text":"給予一個比較完整的一個程序像英國的版本就很清楚去講到要去規劃到保險或移屬的安排或者說代理孕母在這個運程的期間要跟這個委託父母之間他有一個非常好的一個互動那接下來呢"},{"start":9363.82,"end":9365.181,"text":"謝謝教授下一位我們請鄧竹原執行長發言彩虹平權大平台執行長"},{"start":9402.941,"end":9422.876,"text":"主席好 各位與會的前輩大家好我是採用平台大平台執行長鄧竹元大平台在2017年到2019年之間是參與臺灣的婚姻平台推動到了2019年之後其實大平台持續在做各項跟同志相關的政策上的"},{"start":9423.536,"end":9424.437,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9450.077,"end":9469.841,"text":"臺灣同志可以跟不同國家的人結婚,也可以在婚後跟配偶共同收養但仍然還沒有調整的這個第三項,其實就是今天討論這個臺灣的人工生殖法只能開放給異性戀夫妻,卻沒有辦法讓同志可以在自己的國家用臺灣優越的人工生殖技術來生養下一代"},{"start":9470.641,"end":9488.18,"text":"過去我們與在座的許多團體其實都在共同努力不管是我們自己做研究我們寫法案我們持續的跟公部門還有立法委員保持聯繫都是希望去彌平這個法律上仍然存在對同志的不平等那接下來我還要提供順序就是稍微提供一個大平台的意見"},{"start":9491.502,"end":9507.808,"text":"提到的第一題跟第二題問到的其實是不是要鬆綁婚姻一體那怎麼樣去提供有需要的人不管是沒有辦法自行懷胎的生育的配偶去讓他們可以協助讓他們可以使用人工生殖的技術這個兩個問題其實都在指向台灣的"},{"start":9510.663,"end":9535.516,"text":"人工生殖法到底要怎麼修這邊我們要先講的是臺灣作為亞洲第一個同婚通過的國家今年已經是同婚通過的五週年我們希望人工生殖法的修正是一個與時俱進保障每一個國民生育自主權的法律人工生殖法從2007年制定到現在只有在2017年的年底修了三條"},{"start":9536.596,"end":9551.466,"text":"其他的條文大致上沒有什麼改變可是社會其實已經有很大的不同生育率下降國人普遍晚婚晚生同志已經可以結婚台灣的家庭太陽已經越來越多元人工生殖法的規範應該要與時俱進針對現在的家庭組成太陽"},{"start":9556.969,"end":9578.859,"text":"人工生殖法的修正方向應該要朝向婚姻與生育脫鉤的方向盡可能開放更多人可以得到人工生殖技術的協助同時我們還是希望與時俱進要真的能夠快到讓同志不管你是不是踏入婚姻都在你能生也想生的時候去生小孩"},{"start":9582.196,"end":9600.226,"text":"行政院性平處委託大平台在2022年底其實我們有進行了一個臺灣首度的同志生活探討調查根據這份有13000份有效樣本研究我們其實可以看到有生養意願預計要養育小孩或是有考慮要生養小孩的這個同志"},{"start":9601.407,"end":9615.413,"text":"總共的比例可能是百分之大概將近四成啦那這個四成裡面其實在20到29歲的受訪者本身的確是百分之42.830到39歲下降到百分之36.2到了40歲到49歲這個數字下降到百分之23.3"},{"start":9621.816,"end":9637.684,"text":"這個年齡的落差當然跟生育年齡有關生殖技術一天不開放想要生小孩的同志就只能選擇付出更高的成本承擔更高的醫療風險遠赴海外求職或者是隨著時間流逝我付不起這個成本我只能選擇放棄生養小孩的計劃"},{"start":9641.241,"end":9665.68,"text":"提到的子女最佳利益關於兒童權利公約已經講到現在的人工生殖法在子女的生殖知識權上有很大調整的空間我們很期待未來在這個修法的時候可以一定的做調整讓小孩是有機會在捐贈者願意的情況底下可以知道相關的資訊"},{"start":9668.345,"end":9694.193,"text":"最後我想要提一下就是關於代理孕母其實提綱的後面幾題都在討論代理孕母這個問題人工生殖法應該要盡速修法對於我們是認為目前相對來說符合現行架構的這個女同志配偶調整幅度比較小的單身女性可以早日的去進行人工生殖法的就使用這個技術但是我們同時認為代孕的制度應該要盡速的進行的工作討論"},{"start":9695.473,"end":9718.173,"text":"像今天其實在提綱裡面提到的怎麼去保障三方代孕者委託人代孕子女的權益怎麼去規劃相關的程序怎麼去想像配套怎麼去想像居間機構這些東西都應該要盡快進行公眾討論我們知道國建署其實在過去幾年有非常多的研究進行了非常詳細的討論我們也曾經受邀去參加過這個專家會議"},{"start":9720.635,"end":9749.224,"text":"但是這些討論其實目前都沒有相關的資訊是公告然後公聽的其實這些細節魔鬼藏在細節裡其實細節非常重要我們要能夠想像這個制度未來長什麼樣子才能開始討論這個制度那大平台在2022年2020年其實有跟同家會合作我們進行了代孕的焦點團體調查收集同志社群對於使用代理孕母的這個想法"},{"start":9749.824,"end":9750.004,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9768.72,"end":9796.818,"text":"可是南洪志可是直接他們是直接進入代孕的這個過程所以在居間機構他能不能提供關於升職的各種諮詢釐清可能會對於南洪志社群來說更加重要所以這其實在使用者上面的確會存在一個落差當具體的細節並沒有出現的時候我們很難去進行討論另外我們也發現到當我們在問到受訪者你覺得要這個機構要盈利還是非盈利這個"},{"start":9798.619,"end":9821.604,"text":"概念對於受訪者來說是非常模糊的因為相較於這個盈利與非盈利的區分如果能夠進入細節的討論去問他們你們覺得這個居間機構應該要有什麼樣的身份提供你什麼樣的協助提供你什麼樣的功能跟服務可以做什麼事情不可以做什麼事情這才是真正建立起一個制度裡面最重要的關鍵"},{"start":9823.038,"end":9845.91,"text":"最後關於就是裡面有問到代孕技術跟人工技術高度重疊但是我自己作為一個法律背景的倡議工作者我個人的潛見是在醫學技術上雖然這件事情有高度的相似性但是在法律規範的層面要怎麼去思考代孕者委託方代孕子女的三方可能會存在的權力衝突去架構一個"},{"start":9846.69,"end":9873.296,"text":"可以協助代孕者及委託方協調彼此權利利益衝突同時保障子女最佳利益的居間執購制度這個概念其實會遠比目前的人工生殖法將更複雜那我們其實現在對於這個制度要放在人工生殖法架構底下還是拉開來討論沒有什麼定見但是我們還是希望回到最終了就是代孕制度政府可以盡快地公佈目前對於制度的研究跟想像開啟這個公共討論的流程謝謝"},{"start":9877.68,"end":9880.223,"text":"謝謝執行長 下一位我們請李一錦委員發言"},{"start":9888.289,"end":9914.235,"text":"謝謝主席大家好我是這一次人工生殖法修法提案人之一因此來這裡向大家說明我對修法方向的看法討論代理孕母的問題就不能不正視生殖產業背後所代表的龐大的利益我再強調一次如果真的要討論是不是該開放代理孕母政府就絕對要嚴格的管控"},{"start":9914.955,"end":9914.975,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9935.111,"end":9950.003,"text":"這一點沒有辦法有任何的妥協那先講結論我主張代理育母的問題要跟單身女性女同志配偶的人工生殖需求不論是立法技術又或者是討論的範圍"},{"start":9951.164,"end":9951.304,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9978.91,"end":10003.3,"text":"這個人工生殖的落實的期程那不但如此我覺得我們也無法好好的來聚焦處理代理運母的這個複雜性那到頭來是雙輸的局面那未來我們要聚焦處理代理運母制度的這個討論的時候我覺得必須確保的是我國代理運母制度是要朝向利他型的代孕還是商業型的代孕"},{"start":10003.92,"end":10028.618,"text":"那因為一旦生育跟商業行為相綑綁那許多倫理跟道德的問題就會浮現出來都很難處理那放眼國際像是泰國屢次發現一些爭議的事件雖然有明文禁止商業的代孕但卻因為監管不力2014年曾經爆發由准家長透過代孕產下13個寶寶的例子"},{"start":10031.04,"end":10058.137,"text":"這不是對女性身體血淋淋的剝削這什麼才是所以我當然不希望台灣也變成這個樣子那另外尋求代理孕母的過程中我們通常需要一個中介機構來進行媒合那利他行的這個代孕的中介機構絕大多數是非營利組織那部分的國家甚至會禁止這些中介機構收費那至於代理孕母的報酬問題"},{"start":10060.138,"end":10074.849,"text":"只允許利他行代孕的加拿大為例支付額外的費用給代理孕母就是觸法的行為讓代孕真正朝向非營利的發展這是我在現在的提案中沒有看到的設計"},{"start":10077.11,"end":10095.456,"text":"代理孕母的權利保障幫別人懷孕這件事情除了讓代理孕母生理上出現變化外我想心理的健康跟情感也是我們要高度關注的議題舉個例子就好一個手錶你待了10個月可能就有感情更何況一個生命在你的身體成長"},{"start":10096.916,"end":10123.849,"text":"日夜不分的跟著你10個月了那如果代理孕母後悔了那不願意把孩子交給委託者這可以被允許嗎我們是否可以考量考量過代理孕母這個制度對當事人的情感剝削那所以最後我想建議探討代理孕母的議題的時候請讓我們先看見女性的處境讓我們看見活生生的人不要只看見商品生產工具"},{"start":10124.269,"end":10153.162,"text":"以及消費者的權益以上謝謝謝謝下一位我們請關小薇教授臺北大學法律系教授發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位貴賓很感謝立法院今天的邀請提綱其實多達五點但是對我來說整體來說其實只有兩大議題一個就是擴大人工生殖法的生殖罪項另外一個是待運"},{"start":10154.002,"end":10169.419,"text":"那剛剛有談到就是說從醫學技術層面來看都是使用輔助生殖技術但是代孕又牽涉到第三人的權益還有完整的配套設計所以我認為本質上這兩個制度應該做不同的政策來討論"},{"start":10171.101,"end":10198.007,"text":"那一方面就是如果是關於單女和女童要使用這個現行的人工生殖技術這是舊的治理機制的使用但是代孕的層面非常的複雜 增益性高所以它會產生一個新的治理機制需要更多的細緻的討論那以下我就先就代孕來和這個擴大生殖的一個對象來發表我的看法"},{"start":10198.849,"end":10200.761,"text":"首先關於代孕的部分"},{"start":10203.778,"end":10231.712,"text":"這個牽涉到女性身體自主權的限制還有孕母和她的子女之間侵權的一個剝奪還有子女最佳利益的種種考量就法律來看它的關係相當複雜而且這幾個關係人之間他們的利益是有衝突性的所以它並不是簡單的契約或者我們有定型化契約就可以解決的一個議題所以如果要合法化的話我認為國家管制的密度要相當的高"},{"start":10232.512,"end":10251.905,"text":"那當然性別團體對於究竟代孕是不是對於代孕婦女會帶來這個傷害是對於代孕制度目前我認為非常核心的一個重要顧慮那所以對於代孕的這個女性他的保障如何設計還有如何落實都是立法不可迴避的一個問題"},{"start":10253.086,"end":10253.466,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":10267.869,"end":10285.929,"text":"我認為在這個政策的考量上面來講我們在做的研究調查不能只做一個法制面還有實踐面的相關調查包括既然有40多個國家他去做了這個就是合法化了之後這些實證的研究都有助於我們的民間團體或者公眾來進行溝通"},{"start":10288.812,"end":10318.155,"text":"那例如說近幾年其實美國和英國都出現了很多的實證研究發現說美國的代孕婦女或者英國代孕婦女她和我們過去想像的這個經濟弱勢被動主體的這個形象會有點不同那所以它呈現了說這些孕母她的這個財務部分或者心理穩定的程度或者自主意識的樣貌這樣子的實證研究其實後來鬆動了美國婦女團體對於代孕的看法"},{"start":10318.815,"end":10338.715,"text":"再加上各州其實對於代孕的制度配套﹐包括法院在這個過程的介入﹐還有它能夠同時考量三方的一個權益﹐以及強制律師的代理的這個制度﹐所以會讓很多的婦女團體對於代孕的看法﹐不再像以往一樣是堅決的反對"},{"start":10340.697,"end":10360.845,"text":"但是在此同時我們也看到剛剛委員講到的泰國或者是印度的情形確實有性別團體所疑慮的這個剝削存在所以我們如何立法保障育母確保他法律上的一個權益然後要做到制度完整的一個配套的部分還牽涉到社會文化層面的一個考量"},{"start":10361.565,"end":10387.04,"text":"其他國家可以行得通的代孕制度在不同的社會文化因素之下可能會有不同的結果那所以牽涉到居間服務的他的管理模式或者是剛剛說的強制律師代理以及社會上對於家庭文化性別的以及對於生育的態度都會帶來不同的衝擊例如說在臺灣的部分我覺得就我們的家庭文化之下"},{"start":10387.56,"end":10394.264,"text":"我們在限制孕母和委託夫妻之間配偶之間有沒有特定的親屬關係是非常重要而必須要由這個居間機構來找孕母以避免說我們的長輩會幫某個媳婦會為兒子找媳婦另外一個媳婦幫他們家裡傳宗接代這樣子的一個剝削"},{"start":10411.115,"end":10436.304,"text":"所以這個像這樣子的制度是對於台灣文化當中非常重要的一個設計所以我認為說要推出這個代孕的制度我們具有積極的義務要從性別影響評估人權影響評估還有其他的風險評估來做起才能做到真的說服公眾的一個疑慮那其次我想談到的是擴張的部分"},{"start":10440.748,"end":10453.166,"text":"同志團體的朋友也有談到關於女童的部分我就不再贅述關於單身女性的部分是大家還有疑慮的呢我想提到的事情是從家庭權的一個保障來講"},{"start":10454.488,"end":10478.61,"text":"那包括有自我決定建立什麼樣的家庭以及不同家庭形式要受到尊重的部分所以單身女性如果想要建立自己的這樣子的家庭我們應該要尊重選擇權那如果是基於就是因為單親所以對子女一定不利的這樣子的情形就很多的實證研究來講這是不一定會如此的所以"},{"start":10479.45,"end":10479.73,"text":"主席"},{"start":10492.85,"end":10493.13,"text":"主席"},{"start":10523.938,"end":10530.945,"text":"謝謝教授接下來我們請林昀賢副教授上台發言國立清華大學科技法律研究所"},{"start":10538.138,"end":10564.1,"text":"主席 各位與會的貴賓我是林芸賢我在國立清華大學科技法律研究所教代孕與人工生殖專題已經超過10年了有關於今天的提綱有一些簡短的分享比如說第一個就是我們到底要不要取消婚育一體這樣子的規定我想要以這個"},{"start":10564.801,"end":10564.821,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":10584.097,"end":10610.199,"text":"實用人工生殖但是呢在1990年的那個法案裡面他有規定說醫療院所在提供人工生殖醫療之前應該要考量子女的福祉包含子女對父親的需求這是1990年然後英國在2008年的時候他就修法了他說因應社會的變遷所以把對父親的需求刪除了改為"},{"start":10611.867,"end":10630.16,"text":"應該要考慮子女的福祉,包含對有支持的家長的需求,supportive parenting也就是說,不管你是單身,或者是你有配偶,或是你是伴侶制,重要的是養小孩需要有一個很好的親友的支持體系"},{"start":10631.021,"end":10631.821,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10653.266,"end":10678.764,"text":"定期檢討修正尤其是我們2019年同會已經合法化了所以我們的社會對於家庭應該是什麼樣子其實已經有一個很大的變遷我認為是需要討論一下尤其是影響比較小的比如說像女同性配偶使用捐金的話我認為其實應該是可以開放的"},{"start":10680.011,"end":10704.406,"text":"好 那至於有關於代孕的部分那我認為其實它因為它牽涉的醫療跟法律的議題然後還有社會和倫理的層面是比較廣所以其實還是需要審慎那有關於這個代理孕母的配套措施我想要分三個部分來講第一個部分就是有關於這個"},{"start":10706.578,"end":10710.121,"text":"專業諮詢專業諮詢是針對代孕者跟委託方這兩方都需要經過專業的諮詢如果大家可以參考美國紐約州的一些規定這個諮詢所發生的事件剛才許多"},{"start":10726.713,"end":10726.933,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10749.068,"end":10762.82,"text":"在整個很長的履約期間代孕者應該也都必須要有權利獲得諮詢同時甚至在分娩之後他仍然還是可以獲得諮詢"},{"start":10765.109,"end":10765.869,"text":"保護代孕者"},{"start":10780.974,"end":10801.843,"text":"我認為代孕者的身體自主權和人格權他都應該要獲得額外的保障他不應該是因為他幫別人懷孕甚至說他有得到一些的報酬那他的一些身體自主權他就會劣後他就會比一般的懷孕者還要差這是不能贊同的"},{"start":10802.583,"end":10829.792,"text":"好那比如說是什麼事呢好像大家都知道這個委託人其實會有許多的要求的那問題是我是認為代孕者他應該要有權去拒絕非必要的一些干涉比如說如果委託方他希望代孕者他要看時程剖腹生產這件事情那依照我們台灣的文化這是非常有可能會發生的"},{"start":10831.793,"end":10853.487,"text":"那像這種情況之下我認為代孕者他其實必須要有權利可以拒絕我們的制度必須保障讓他說得出他要拒絕那同時呢要求代孕者要有生育的經驗或者是限制這個代孕的次數我也認為是我們可以考慮的一個方向"},{"start":10855,"end":10873.984,"text":"好那有關於大家最想要提的就是這個子女最佳利益這件事那我認為說在代孕的情況之下那保護子女的婚生性當然是最重要的也就是說我們希望每一個出生的孩子他是有父母親來為他負責的"},{"start":10876.445,"end":10894.925,"text":"那我知道大家都很擔心這個待運者不放手啊然後上演這個侵權大戰的時候怎麼辦但是我要提出有一個更可怕的情況那就是沒有人要這個孩子的時候怎麼辦就是他雖然被製造出來了但是由於他不夠完美"},{"start":10895.486,"end":10896.026,"text":"委託方"},{"start":10926.026,"end":10947.561,"text":"子女最佳利益這不是只有我覺得我們不要這麼針對性好像只有在講代孕的時候才需要講並不是說只有講到單身者生育我們才要講子女最佳利益我用一個澳洲維多利亞省2008年他們的人工生殖法來給大家做參考那就是他們的法律要求說"},{"start":10949.343,"end":10974.702,"text":"來求診想要做人工生殖的女性跟他的伴侶雙方必須提出他們沒有一些犯罪的前科那個前科非常特定就是性犯罪、暴力或是對兒少的犯罪這是2008年那他們後來甚至還想要2018年以後希望能夠加入對於家庭暴力保護令的紀錄就不能有這些以維護"},{"start":10975.623,"end":10975.883,"text":"范雲委員"},{"start":10994.828,"end":11019.1,"text":"稍微我們各位委員跟各位學者專家大家好我想住院科技跟人工生殖那是當代相當複雜但是很重要的議題那我不止一次諮詢婦女跟性別團體後那大家目前的共識是懇切的希望立法院能夠優先處理單身女性及女同志配偶適用人工生殖技術的修法"},{"start":11019.84,"end":11034.54,"text":"社集第三方女性身體的代孕制度希望能夠脫鉤確保有更多深入的討論因此我提出的人工生殖法修正草案聚焦在單身女性與女同志配偶可以進行人工生殖"},{"start":11035.481,"end":11049.897,"text":"因為人工生殖技術不應該再侷限於不認得異性夫妻如同剛剛很多委員講的應該納入單身女性及女同志配偶以消除單身歧視、單親歧視還有對同志歧視"},{"start":11054.401,"end":11080.172,"text":"2023年有調查顯示考慮動筋動卵的民眾中有八成知道必須經過人工生殖才能使用冷凍的精子或卵子但是卻只有不到三成的人知道僅有不孕異性夫妻才能進行人工生殖那當然其中希望人工生殖的有許多希望生育的單身女性以及我們同婚已經通過五週年的女同志配偶"},{"start":11080.452,"end":11080.572,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11110.592,"end":11112.414,"text":"接受代孕契約委託的女性,在何種情況下可以終止認成?"},{"start":11127.27,"end":11131.874,"text":"女性懷孕所面臨的身體自主、身心健康甚至死亡風險目前相關的草案就是看起來缺乏完善的保障所以我想相關的討論必須要確保孕母的女性權益"},{"start":11155.216,"end":11176.235,"text":"兒童權益根據聯合國的《兒童權利公約》兒童應該要有學童的認識權在現行的匿名捐贈的制度下孩子的身世告知該如何進行家族醫療史該如何追溯委託代孕家長死亡或離異時孩子的撫養權如何歸屬以及若委託方及代孕方"},{"start":11177.756,"end":11177.776,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":11209.385,"end":11211.581,"text":"謝謝委員下一位請陳培宇委員發言"},{"start":11218.407,"end":11240.453,"text":"好謝謝主席各位先進各位來賓大家好那我是陳培瑜那我很開心今天可以來參加這個公聽會事實上人工生殖法從2007年修法到現在已經有將近17年的期間可是我們也知道其實2007年的修法其實也沒有實質的條文討論其實只是把相關的主管機關做一個更動所以我覺得到目前為止真的是是時候討論這個修法的事情那我要先說我的結論"},{"start":11244.594,"end":11244.774,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11261.181,"end":11261.421,"text":"人工生殖法"},{"start":11277.33,"end":11277.53,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11294.522,"end":11310.055,"text":"雖然存在生育子女的結果但不是透過人工生殖技術的治療讓不孕的人變得能夠自然生育另外一方面這句話的立場其實也抹煞了完全抹煞同志配偶以及單身女性使用人工生殖技術"},{"start":11310.695,"end":11311.316,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11331.753,"end":11360.728,"text":"除了在今天的會場我相信後續會再開啟很多的討論我們必須要站在這樣的立場去思考後續我們要提的修法的版本或者是相關的權益跟保障那第一個我們要談一下關於同志家庭權益的問題台灣第一本同志會本是我翻譯的在十幾年前我們就注意到這個很重要的問題那關於同志權益其實在釋字七十八號的施行法裡面通過之後同性配偶可以結婚成家後續還有關於收養子女的權利也都透過修法有了保障"},{"start":11361.508,"end":11388.702,"text":"我們是不是可以再進一步來看連同讓女同志配偶可以人工生殖的技術和權利都可以在相關的法案版本裡面給予保障讓我國對於同志家庭權益的保障可以越來越完整這是第二個部分再來生育子女還有子女的生育自主還有子女的最佳利益這件事情我們辦公室當然也有我們的考慮那關於這個部分過去大家對於生育對於家庭的想像都一直圍繞在婚姻上"},{"start":11389.162,"end":11409.492,"text":"昨天在跟沈記長討論的會議當中我們也提醒他少子化不是把第一個更正的要點叫做提升國人的婚育價值觀大家把婚跟育綁在一起這個事情是真的非常的荒謬所以現在社會風氣的狀態我相信大家都非常清楚我身邊自己真的就有很多女性朋友他們真的想要"},{"start":11409.972,"end":11413.993,"text":"我相信在法規上真的沒有必要做這樣的限制我知道目前有一些反對的觀點可能今天在現場是沒有的可是在很多反對的觀點上基於子女最佳利益避免他們一出生就是單親家庭"},{"start":11438.337,"end":11460.514,"text":"我自己就是單親家庭的小孩長大我甚至是隔代教養我相信我現在能努力跟認真跟我的原生家庭一點關係都沒有我想要再次提醒單親家庭的小孩未必就不幸而雙親家庭的小孩大家也知道未必保證百分之百的幸福關鍵不是單親或者是大家認為的雙親家庭而是影響孩子真正幸福是每一個家庭的"},{"start":11460.874,"end":11478.542,"text":"文化資源或國家必須給予的資源或國家政策在家庭教育及照顧上的想像這才是我們最重要的責任而不是把單親家庭的小孩早早貼上標籤我們也非常期待每一個孩子的出生都是我們每一個對美好生活的想像跟未來"},{"start":11479.645,"end":11486.249,"text":"最後我希望所有這些討論都必須要建立在照顧人權照顧每一個在意這個法案的人權的立場上持續為大家發聲那我後續要再補充關於衛福部在2023年6月28的網站上我要再次強調你們自己的網站上都還寫到以下一段話我要再次念給大家聽未婚者可以要求做人工生殖嗎?基於維護生命的倫理跟尊嚴人工生殖應該以"},{"start":11507.762,"end":11509.984,"text":"後續在修法上請務必站在這個框架大家一起進行討論"},{"start":11536.662,"end":11537.463,"text":"主席陳正龍主任 婦女新知基金會開拓部主任"},{"start":11550.209,"end":11571.303,"text":"大家好我們是婦女行之基金會關於今天的議案我們是支持單身女性適用人工生殖然後婚姻脫鉤但是我們是認為代孕這部分目前的討論不夠成熟跟充分應該要脫鉤處理倉促立法必定會造成重大的人權侵害"},{"start":11572.003,"end":11599.015,"text":"那因為剛剛有些與會者有提到單身女性如果要使用人工生殖的話可能要加重評估的情況我們認為如果僅有單身女性她必須要加重評估然後被預設為她的家庭功能一定是比其他的家庭模式更差的話我們覺得這是一種單身歧視如果我們立即在兒童最佳利益考量應該是所有類型的家庭的話都必須要經過評估"},{"start":11600.296,"end":11618.424,"text":"那因為時間關係今天我們過去我在國建署已經提供了很多對於單女使用人工生殖的意見今天會主要提出我們對於待遇目前的擔憂那就兒童最佳利益孕母權益以及制度管理三個層面來看的話我們覺得現有的草案根本就是攪白卷"},{"start":11619.444,"end":11638.819,"text":"首先是子女最佳利益僅有陳金輝委員在他的版本裡面提到說代孕資格必須要考量子女最佳利益那但因為沒有實質說明我們從草案的整個脈絡來看的話他應該是指說代孕的健康狀況他不能夠影響到就是胚胎或是兒童的健康情形"},{"start":11639.559,"end":11652.624,"text":"那如果我們今天在意的是兒童的健康情況的話那我們是不是應該要修正現有的胚胎數我們現在的法律的胚胎數應該一樣是就是你必須植入就是可以到五個維縣這樣子"},{"start":11654.344,"end":11675.163,"text":"那現有的研究都已經指出單胚胎植入才能夠確保兒童的健康那是不是我們應該要去修改這個法律然後以及在胚胎數上面還有另外一個議題是如果委託家庭他要求孕母他要多胚胎植入的話孕母他到底有沒有足夠的能力跟資訊能夠去反對這件事情"},{"start":11676.639,"end":11700.001,"text":"在兒童最佳利益上面其實也不是只有健康權我們想要詢問現在關於親權的設定在草案的設定中是指出說親權歸屬會直接是給委託家庭但是這與現行的一些親屬法的規定好像概念是不太一樣的那我們是不是也要同時的去修正我們現在親屬法相關的法律然後又"},{"start":11700.862,"end":11727.422,"text":"有就是如果代孕契約出現爭議的話在徵送期間的嬰幼兒照顧跟侵權應該要怎麼樣處理現在的草案也看不到又或者是如果透過司法決定來某方必須要帶回小孩的話我們是不是有系統能夠去追蹤這個原本不願意帶回小孩的家長他帶回小孩之後孩子的照顧狀況孩子是不是能夠在適當的狀況下被接受照顧兒童的照顧福祉在哪裡"},{"start":11728.837,"end":11754.81,"text":"那其次在孕母的權益上面來看的話草案中提及委託家庭他應該要為孕母保人身保險但是我們想要請教的是現在政府是不是有盤點過商業保險有沒有提供足夠的相關的保單給所謂的孕婦連一般孕婦可能都沒有充足的保單的話商業保險他會願意提供這樣的保單給孕母嗎在臺灣我們的孕繁"},{"start":11755.63,"end":11777.857,"text":"運負的死亡率是日本的3倍在OECD國家將近50個國家裡面我們是倒數就是我們只贏過了14個國家那在這樣的情況下這個數字是衛福部公告的數字那如果在這樣的情況下商業保險他是不是會在這樣的數字考量下覺得他要提供好的保單給孕母"},{"start":11778.957,"end":11803.215,"text":"那如果這件事情政府他沒有辦法去跟商業保險協商出一個合適育母的保單的話這對育母的權利在哪裡那如果未來育母遇到失能或是死亡的情況的時候請問這個權責到底是家庭他要自己承擔還是政府他現在要承諾說所有育母接下來遇到這些風險政府要概括承受"},{"start":11804.301,"end":11825.28,"text":"若孕母堅持留下小孩依照契約而小孩被強制帶走的話,孕母造成的一些身心狀況的創傷,或者是她在代孕過程中引發的長期的健康議題,請問這是孕母她要自行承擔的職災,還是委託家庭她要全權負責,又或者是政府她應該要提供支持方案?"},{"start":11826.656,"end":11852.105,"text":"草案也沒有限制親屬代孕那目前臺灣的性別環境會不會有家庭他為了就是傳宗接代迫使他家中的女性成員幫忙代孕這件事情應該要如何避免最後在制度管理方面來看的話目前談到的數錢評估機制居間機構的角色相關的草案都沒有就是細緻的說明我們看不到未來"},{"start":11853.165,"end":11875.248,"text":"制度施行之後政府、生殖中心、居間機構還有育母委託者他的權責分配還有制度未來如何能夠有效的促成權力平衡的關係杜絕就是權力侵害再者是代孕契約與人權保障之間的衝突應該要如何解決例如契約自由可以大程度的去推翻育母她的墮胎權嗎"},{"start":11876.309,"end":11898.849,"text":"如果今天孕母她想要墮胎但是委託家庭說我的契約上面早就跟你講好說我給你這筆錢你就是要幫我把孩子生出來那孕母她到底有多少的權力能夠去宣稱說她就是想要墮胎她覺得現在她就是要就是沒有辦法去承諾這個契約但是她在這個代孕期間她已經付出了成本是不是能夠被保障到這應該要怎麼樣來去處理"},{"start":11901.747,"end":11926.181,"text":"眾上所述,我們覺得現在的代孕制度本身牽涉到許多制度細節應該要討論我們憂心所有的風險承擔都推向個人的話整體制度失靈會造就個人的權益損傷瑞典他在討論人工生殖法案的時候他很強調你所有的人工生殖的進展都應該要立即在兒童最佳利益為考量"},{"start":11927.639,"end":11945.724,"text":"他們最後提了一個問題他們的委員會提了一個問題是說他們的政府他們沒有辦法確認政府有能力在如果育母想要把小孩留下來的話政府到底要基於什麼權利要求育母要把小孩交出去"},{"start":11947.25,"end":11969.094,"text":"政府他到底要基於什麼樣的權力迫使育母不能夠把小孩留下來即便是透過法官裁決這樣的事情真的是道德與正義的嗎所以直到現在瑞典他是全世界第一個通過人工生殖法案的一個國家到現在他們對於要不要通過待運仍有很高度的質疑以上謝謝大家"},{"start":11970.645,"end":11996.668,"text":"謝謝主任 我也簡單的回應一下主任 因為主任有Q到我關於胚胎植入數 我想在場我是最倡議最久的因為從這個專業來說 我們堅持母嬰的安全已經非常久了 也有非常多我們醫學會的前輩在此所以我是唯一一個草案有規定胚胎植入數的另外對於兒童最佳利益 我強調的是代孕者"},{"start":11997.028,"end":11997.048,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":12020.034,"end":12020.634,"text":"臺灣同志家庭權益促進會"},{"start":12053.78,"end":12075.363,"text":"大家好我代表臺灣同志家庭權益促進會也就是同家會發言那從同家會實務上服務協助同志生養子女的經驗當中做處罰那同家會在2010年的時候就開始分享同志前往海外試管的人工生殖資訊並且從2012年開始也開始接觸了海外代孕的相關這個流程"},{"start":12076.044,"end":12102.924,"text":"在這14年當中我們看見同志社群為了要生養子女承擔了非常高昂的跨國醫療的這個費用以及海外生殖所帶來的法律風險那實際上除了經濟醫療法律風險以外其實最難跨越的成本還是時間時間是殘酷的你的生殖健康下降的速度擔心自己高齡生育的這個壓力讓許多同志其實早就已經無法等候生育平權法案通過的這個到來"},{"start":12104.165,"end":12122.323,"text":"在2019年同婚通過之後許多的同志因為生育年齡的極限在這個國家尚未肯認同志家庭之前早在同婚通過以前他就透過了各種方式來生養子女那好不容易今年我們在2024年也就是下個月的時候同婚通過已經要五週年了"},{"start":12123.044,"end":12137.836,"text":"在這5年之內﹐同家會至少服務了近3000人次的同志朋友﹐去諮詢海外的生殖技術﹐其中有7成主要是諮詢跟試管療程相關的﹐而3成是針對海外大運資訊的理解﹐"},{"start":12138.456,"end":12165.755,"text":"多人性別生育的需求是真實且不容忽視的社會事實所以未來不論如何立法我們也希望各個委員、行政單位、立法者們都不能夠再度忽視同志生育的需求而在我們自己的服務經驗當中我們也看見近年以來海外升職的門檻其實是逐年的提高許多同志朋友沒有辦法再負擔前往海外的跨國生育成本"},{"start":12167.276,"end":12187.021,"text":"在這個灰色地帶的空間當中許多的非法仲介也開始利用不實的資訊欺騙誘導臺灣的公民前往非法待遇的國家包含泰國、馬來西亞、塞浦勒斯等國運用同志渴望生子的這樣的心態又不熟悉外國法律的這個劣勢之下居間詐騙錢財"},{"start":12189.081,"end":12209.487,"text":"網顧家長跟人工生殖子女的法律權益在個案澄清的協助過程當中我們發現有仲介單位假意成意非營利組織或是謊稱自己是人工生殖單位公開舉辦說明會利用捐款給非營利組織的漏洞或者是用驗證文件運輸生殖細胞等等名目來進行收費"},{"start":12210.367,"end":12233.69,"text":"許多的準家長、渴望生育的朋友根本無法辨識這些琳瑯滿目的收費項目後續一旦發生任何糾紛也因為已經跟海外醫療單位簽約了根本沒有辦法反悔例如後續發生的糾紛包含子女出生之後沒有辦法取得合法文件甚至無法帶回台灣或是回來台灣之後沒有辦法順利入籍等等"},{"start":12234.31,"end":12252.683,"text":"這些困境都是真真實實的在臺灣社會當中發生,屆時那些家長也已經求償無門在陪伴同志生育的過程當中,其實我們也會看見單身女性、異性戀夫妻因為找不到適切的海外生殖資訊,甚至必須要假裝自己是同志來向本會求助"},{"start":12253.763,"end":12277.254,"text":"養莊自己的性傾向只為了能夠得到任何的生養資訊但是也透過跟這些服務者實際的接觸我們也看見事管跟代孕的協助其實是不分性傾向不分婚姻關係的生育需求也因為累積了數十年的實務經驗我們也需要在此呼籲除了看見多人性別的生育需求以外擁有良善的制度機制才是重要的"},{"start":12277.714,"end":12294.361,"text":"特別是擁有研究資源的立法者應該要積極作為之處例如對於待運的討論我們不能夠再停留在要或不要的價值判斷而是制度是否能夠確實落實多方權益的問題以今天很多人討論以及提綱當中所舉例的居間機構為例"},{"start":12296.002,"end":12317.974,"text":"過往許多單一修法對於居間機構的權責幾乎是空白授權但在同家會的實際服務經驗當中居間機構是擔任非常重要且關鍵的角色包含他要評估委託方的生養動機跟支持系統是否充分並基於子女最佳利益提供聲勢告知的資訊與重要性告知居間機構不僅是服務單一的委託方而已"},{"start":12318.314,"end":12341.541,"text":"更需要保障代孕者的權利包含是否有能力評估委託方跟代孕者的身心狀況充分告知代孕的醫療風險協助委託方跟代孕者都能夠瞭解自己的法律權益包含未來在面臨到需要終止懷孕或是避免自己的生活隱私被過度干預等等許多的細節也需要在委託方跟代孕者針對有醫療決策發生爭議的時候這一個居間機構能否陪伴他們討論"},{"start":12346.082,"end":12370.257,"text":"並且基於兒童最佳利益甚至許多居間機構在國外的經驗當中也負責協助後續親子權益轉移或是建立等等的過程因此擔任如此重要的角色居間機構是否能避免利益衝突不僅不能夠成為只是待運過程當中的橡皮圖章也不能夠只是由相關利益團體所成立的白手套單位這是在修法過程當中我們不可迴避討論的議題但很可惜我們看到這個討論其實是非常缺乏的"},{"start":12374.7,"end":12375.32,"text":"臺灣生殖醫學會常務理事發言"},{"start":12402.648,"end":12430.744,"text":"主席那各位大家好因為其實我的身份是生殖科醫師不過本身我又是一個製造出我自己的女兒是用我自己的小成熟的試管嬰兒23年前做的一個爸爸所以我本身也是精從不好所以是做試管嬰兒那我其實我要在這邊先真的很感謝我講我這三四年來也參與了國建署的修法的會議這三四年來真的是"},{"start":12431.964,"end":12453.501,"text":"無異議不宜那國建署真的是在這幾年齁真的是針對這個所謂的女女啦單身女女或者是大英這一條這一些文齁就是基本上真的是我基本上代表學會去齁站在一個政治科技立場今天真的就是很認真的站在一個專家學者的立場去回答"},{"start":12454.321,"end":12454.521,"text":"民間團體的疑問"},{"start":12484.701,"end":12511.272,"text":"我碰到非常多的女女來找我單身女性來找我要答應的來找我我講一個例子好了有一個女童 為單身女性來找我張醫師拜託你幫我打針我要去美國去做取卵我要去歐美的金種他不是要的 而是他被逼到沒有辦法去做這個事情你知道他一共花了多少錢嗎"},{"start":12512.968,"end":12531.924,"text":"兩萬五的借金 美金 三萬五的做試管嬰兒在台灣有多少需要我們這些優秀的生殖科醫師我們台灣的生殖技術在全世界是排行前三名的因為二十幾年的人工生殖法定了以後那是時代在進步 怎麼可以不修法呢"},{"start":12532.885,"end":12551.367,"text":"女女都可以結婚了為什麼不修法呢修法的重點就是說對現在社會的需求不要講少子話這些單身女性這些女女同婚她們來就有生育權啊那不要受到這個法律的限制嘛她今天在台灣不能做她跑去另外的國家做花錢花那麼多"},{"start":12552.088,"end":12573.65,"text":"在這邊做大概只有五分之一的價格所以十分之一就可以做到了我們這些優秀的生殖科醫師絕對願意在沒有很高的利潤下去幫這些他們研發的夢所以我想講的就是說不管這個女女或者不管所謂的同志或者不管代孕對不起對我們生殖科醫師來講真的是沒有多少的利潤"},{"start":12574.651,"end":12596.466,"text":"我只要強調一件沒有什麼利潤真的沒有利潤我們不是因為講利潤才講這件事就是說單身一定要通過這是大家大概都有共識但是女女要通過有共識可是我也不再講了因為太多太多的發言就是一直在強調就法國我覺得沒有意義我本身是一個事管嬰兒的爸爸我的女兒不是"},{"start":12597.327,"end":12607.586,"text":"很優秀但是我這個太優秀就這麼簡單那第二就是說關於這個大印的這個問題站在我們的立場站在這個患者的角度來看假設我們今天台灣"},{"start":12609.022,"end":12609.042,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":12630.939,"end":12645.535,"text":"用它的子宮來生產那這是一個絕對合理的事情那這些女性如果在台灣目前還不能通過的話她還是會尋求到國外去做這個治療那在國外治療就碰到剛剛所提到的一些困難就產生了可能被騙了"},{"start":12646.716,"end":12646.736,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":12667.97,"end":12692.624,"text":"李女同婚這條已經有共識了那關於代印這一塊還沒有共識之前怎麼樣子在大家討論了以後能夠得到一個初步的共識如果啦能夠在一個法案裡面把它修完當然最好啊這都是各位立法院的權利嘛我們是不能講任何話的可是如果說要把它偷鉤我們也不能講什麼事情但是只要"},{"start":12693.504,"end":12719.84,"text":"能夠把這個從前面的角度來看事情我們台灣是一個民主自由的國家我們的總統我們的行政院都是非常優秀的團隊我們的立法院都是非常優秀的但是你們有沒有想到就是說站在患者角度的立場怎麼樣定出一個最好的人工生殖法的修法這才是最好的一個方案那至於我個人是站在時政局立場當然是能夠通過都最好但是能不能通過就拜託各位立委大人了謝謝"},{"start":12722.758,"end":12725.139,"text":"謝謝教授 下一位我們請黃于賢小姐發言各位好 大家午安 我是小賢"},{"start":12746.882,"end":12762.817,"text":"我非常的感謝今天可以來參加公聽會這是我第一次參加公聽會我看到這麼多的人齊聚在這邊為人工生殖法代理孕母這麼認真的在討論我覺得非常非常的感恩"},{"start":12764.038,"end":12792.217,"text":"我先講一下我自己的狀況我是在17歲的時候因為沒有生理期然後去醫院檢查然後那時候醫生告訴我說他發現我就是先天性的沒有子宮然後那時候是1997年那時候我很難過然後醫生看到我就是一直忍耐著不哭出來的狀況他其實看起來他好像想要安慰我所以他當時就告訴我說"},{"start":12794.679,"end":12794.879,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12811.316,"end":12811.996,"text":"人工生殖法"},{"start":12831.661,"end":12831.721,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":12854.016,"end":12881.759,"text":"那我該怎麼樣讓他去接納他自己我該怎麼樣讓他在未來他進入到婚姻的時候也能像正常人一樣很幸福的生活其實我今天來到這裡我覺得不是為我自己其實我是接到的這些訊息我覺得很多人不敢說那甚至還有雙子宮的他也沒有辦法順利的懷孕有一些因為疾病然後子宮必須得要拿掉的對 所以我覺得"},{"start":12883.356,"end":12912.502,"text":"以前我17歲的時候醫生跟我說我的狀況是十萬分之一就十萬個人會有一個人是這樣可是現在已經變成五千分之一了甚至未來我不知道會不會越來越多人是這樣的狀況然後都不敢說也不敢表達那只有在遇到對象的時候要踏入婚姻的時候才會被傳統的傳宗接待壓力就是壓得喘不過氣所以我覺得需求當然是大家都可以理解可是我在這邊我要我自己"},{"start":12912.782,"end":12935.236,"text":"在聽到上次公聽會有好多好多的團體反對代孕的時候我聽到這些聲音我其實心裡面是很開心的因為就是大家反對就是因為有這麼多的案例在國外發生有很多商業代孕的行為導致有很多很悲慘的事情發生所以我覺得這些反對團體他們的聲音我們是非常需要重視的"},{"start":12935.996,"end":12936.016,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":12958.717,"end":12958.797,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":12984.207,"end":12984.227,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":13009.735,"end":13010.015,"text":"立法院第11會議"},{"start":13029.975,"end":13054.582,"text":"對於代孕跟委託的媒合這件事情也非常重要到底兩個人可以同意到什麼程度所有的細項所有會發生的意外你能夠接受承擔到什麼程度連收養小孩都要經過一再的上課跟一再的考慮你有機會可以反悔代孕也是你可以反悔你可以考慮你必須要上課然後再來就是我們的教育"},{"start":13055.402,"end":13083.687,"text":"不是不是將來我們的孩子到學校去上課的時候有沒有可能老師不要出那種題目說你媽媽懷你的時候過程是什麼或者是你的家裡你爸爸媽媽不一定是爸爸媽媽有可能爸爸爸爸或媽媽媽媽對所以這件事是不是跟著也要一起大環境要開始去改變我們的思維了多元成家多元升職還有各種可能性然後我還想要再講一點就是"},{"start":13087.311,"end":13103.306,"text":"如果今天生殖法的代孕通過的話未來我有需要的話如果我找代孕然後代孕的過程當中發生了任何意外要保小孩還是保代孕者我會先保代孕者"},{"start":13105.833,"end":13127.27,"text":"沒有人有權利有義務要幫你這麼大的忙在我還沒有找代孕之前我身邊就有好多朋友願意幫我生小孩願意幫我代孕但是我都會問他說你確定嗎這件事情不是你想像那麼簡單喔甚至我收到很多私訊說小嫻我們家那個國中高中的小孩不小心懷孕生了你不能生要不要給你養"},{"start":13130.071,"end":13130.251,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":13151.241,"end":13153.061,"text":"謝謝黃女士最後一位專家我們請張帆教授中華民國生育協會前理事長發言"},{"start":13181.62,"end":13200.188,"text":"謝謝趙偉的邀請我跟趙偉、張福泉醫師跟劉仲偉醫師一樣我們都是生殖科的醫師但是我比較特別我想我大概是人工生殖醫師裡面處理子宮極限症最多的醫生我大概有在開刀"},{"start":13202.157,"end":13231.346,"text":"我們現在大家都說私管嬰兒的技術發展得很好但是它的性質本質就是精卵結合而已但是如果我們沒有一個子宮就算有一個房客房子不好我沒有房子我怎麼住人呢我怎麼能讓這個房客在裡面住好住滿生下來呢所以代孕是救濟這個房子不好或者沒有房子的狀況下面的權宜措施而已"},{"start":13232.77,"end":13244.936,"text":"當我們的技術在發展我們的社會在進步的時候我們沒辦法容忍有一部分人他可以生小孩可是最後就不行了"},{"start":13246.32,"end":13265.266,"text":"我曾經有一個案例是這樣子,這個病人大概十幾年前他就來找我,他是陪他媽媽來找我切除子宮的當年他才高中生,結果後來他來跟我看不孕症,結果我子宮鏡坐下去發現他居然是一個子宮內膜癌的癌前病變"},{"start":13266.506,"end":13287.681,"text":"我做到現在我大概會做了上千個子宮肌手術型大概碰到四五個癌症病變其中一個我立馬把他轉去癌症科治療了一年回來我們好不容易把胚胎做好放進去我想他內膜不好我放了三顆結果三個全中他是一個導遊"},{"start":13288.982,"end":13302.457,"text":"然後人面非常廣Facebook上面有幾千個粉絲結果他秀出他3個3個baby的唱播照片的時候幾千個按讚結果6週的時候3個全部掉出來"},{"start":13304.199,"end":13328.266,"text":"那我就覺得說這個子宮不好嘛再回去再治療了一年回來可是他媽媽已經年紀大了40歲我們累積了很多次的卵子佩戴做好了之後放進去這次只敢放一個懷孕了過了9週12週覺得穩定了他開始在Facebook上面開始留言回應別人的詢問的時候14週整個叼出來了"},{"start":13331.596,"end":13350.965,"text":"所以癌症我們不能忽略要為人母的牆內需求這個Motivation我們當醫生的人應該感同身受我們因為技術的進步我們希望幫忙更多有需要的人去做這些事情"},{"start":13351.84,"end":13371.81,"text":"那還有一些比如說在雲林的病人他是一位女的警察那他因為子宮肌炎症來北部的醫學中心做了一個海服刀結果回來一看他的子宮變成星月形的月牙形的缺了一個角那我就覺得說這個大概永遠都不會生啦"},{"start":13372.557,"end":13397.646,"text":"那所以這些先天或者後天雙子宮剛小嫻講的雙子宮我碰到個病人他在子宮兩個我差不多看起來兩個我怎麼都找不到另外一個因為他的入口只是像我的筆尖一樣小的一個地方我做到第三次子宮經我才找到入境進去可是我發現他進去之後是先轉90度再往上再走再往上再轉彎"},{"start":13399.295,"end":13416.625,"text":"我過得著可是我沒辦法把他的胚胎有效的放在那個位置上面最後他還是失敗沒有成功那我是覺得說他他們家裡的經濟能力很夠所以就去美國找代孕然後"},{"start":13417.779,"end":13438.62,"text":"那其實這些事情我們都可以做得到那我們應該去幫忙有需要的人那社會在進步以前我們的生育年齡可能到30歲我們都大陸比如說30歲就說你老了可是我們現在門診三分之一以上的病人在40歲以上所以你一個基建"},{"start":13440.017,"end":13450.698,"text":"你二三十歲的時候生小孩子供很好到四十歲的時候你要生老啦你要修理啦沒辦法修理怎麼辦呢你最後可能會需要代孕的一個幫忙"},{"start":13452.363,"end":13479.759,"text":"我們在治療中間也不算你有這個方法你一定會中其實我每次跟我們的困難病人分享就是說我說我們現在做的不是順勢而為而是逆天而行我們所有的治療都是逆天而行我們幫忙一個有需要的病人所以當我們在思考這些法案的修法的時候我們應該去想說我還沒有吃到我就怕噎到"},{"start":13480.967,"end":13504.715,"text":"我們訂了很多的法規去防止你被噎到最後你可能會被餓死所以我們現在訂出的保護措施應該在natural conception就是自然懷孕的生下的小孩懷孕的狀態他達到這樣子可以就應該就合理規範而不應該超越我們現有的標準"},{"start":13506.707,"end":13520.159,"text":"這是我作為臨床醫師的感想的分享啦耽誤大家時間謝謝理事長學者專家及委員均已發言完畢請衛福部做整體回應限時3分鐘"},{"start":13527.754,"end":13549.65,"text":"謝謝主席我們也非常謝謝今天的與會者提供了我們非常許多的一些的寶貴的意見這正是我們所需要的那衛福部我們深切的感覺到的確我們社會上有相當的一群人有這需要不但是有這需要而且還有時間壓力那我們提升到這一點那所以說我們在接下來的時候我們會將"},{"start":13550.831,"end":13551.011,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13581.171,"end":13596.065,"text":"我們希望在最快的時間之內這個專家會議討論完之後我們就會把我們的草案預告上網那預告上網的時候我們當然還是需要大家的幫忙我們也不敢保證說我們預告的就一定非常的完整那大家那時候也歡迎大家給我們意見"},{"start":13596.865,"end":13600.808,"text":"總之我們了解到社會上有人需要而且這是不能拖的我們會把握時間謝謝大家"},{"start":13621.874,"end":13638.261,"text":"謝謝周志浩次長委員劉建國以及出席旁聽者社團法人臺灣全國媽媽護家護兒聯盟所提知書面資料均列入公報紀錄依據立法院職權行使法規定委員會應提出公聽會報告"},{"start":13639.321,"end":13661.894,"text":"送交本院全體委員及出席者公聽會報告作為審查特定議案之參考我們會把各位寶貴的意見以及書面資料匯編成冊分送給本院的全體委員以及今天與會政府機關代表學者專家祥悅非常感謝各位的出席並提供寶貴意見本次公聽會到此結束散會謝謝"},{"start":13680.461,"end":13682.145,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13701.009,"end":13701.23,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13718.12,"end":13718.881,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},{"id":"15783","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15783","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ebb5d33df7eda7d077e60f8021a25648d3be8d109af184be4720a50700fdfc3db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、行政院消費者保護處就「如何改善我國融資公司因缺乏監管所衍生之社會亂象，以穩定金融市場並保障消費者權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請內政部警政署、法務部列席備詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案28案。[如經院會復議，則不予處理]\n【4月1日及3日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-03","start_time":"2024-04-03T08:30:51+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-03T09:21:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":3009,"委員發言時間":"08:30:51 - 09:21:00","影片長度":"00:50:09","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2031.0384687500002,"end":2034.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2031.8990937500002,"end":2033.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2041.3828437500001,"end":2046.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2102.75721875,"end":2106.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2109.5915937500004,"end":2133.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2133.85784375,"end":2153.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2153.8378437500005,"end":2155.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2158.4109687500004,"end":2167.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2168.85659375,"end":2262.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2262.5465937500003,"end":2326.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2326.7897187500002,"end":2341.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2341.96034375,"end":2342.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2343.1922187500004,"end":2351.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2351.89971875,"end":2420.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2421.32346875,"end":2427.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2428.79909375,"end":2429.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2430.1153437500006,"end":2430.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2431.21221875,"end":2435.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2435.9372187500003,"end":2437.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2439.0759687500004,"end":2440.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2440.5272187500004,"end":2442.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2443.0078437500006,"end":2443.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2444.4590937500006,"end":2447.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2447.80034375,"end":2452.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2560.12034375,"end":2562.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2563.2928437500004,"end":2594.24159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2031.087,"end":2033.59,"text":"好,我先申請現在委員的意見"},{"start":2102.773,"end":2128.781,"text":"好 那我們現在會議先開始這邊跟現場所有委員還有所有我們的官員做一個說明因為今天早上有災情的傳出而且陸陸續續不斷那也為了每個委員現在要處理一些緊急的事項再加上立法院本身的餘震就不斷了所以本委會會進行到什麼階段"},{"start":2130.121,"end":2154.282,"text":"現在待會我們會特別徵詢所有委員的意見不過我們在等待其他委員的同時我們先進行這個相關議程解凍案的進行然後以方便後面程序的一個安排那我們先請我們官員跟這個委員就不介紹了那我們先請那個議事人員宣讀今天的這個議程報告事項"},{"start":2158.462,"end":2184.275,"text":"好請議事人宣讀報告事項有關於中華民國113年度中央政府總預算金管會主管預算解凍案書面報告28案現在請宣讀處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案28案第一案金融監督管理委員會決議一凍結第一幕一般行政項下基本行政工作維持中優惠費之資訊服務費預算十分之一二"},{"start":2184.955,"end":2206.949,"text":"金融監督管理委員會決議二,凍結第二幕金融監理預算十分之一。三,金融監督管理委員會決議三,凍結第二幕金融監理向下金融監督管理預算一百萬元。四,金融監督管理委員會決議四,凍結第二幕金融監理向下金融監督管理之優惠費預算五十萬元。五,金融監督管理委員會決議四十七,"},{"start":2207.87,"end":2228.269,"text":"動決第二幕金融監理向下金融監督管理預算百分之一六金融監督管理委員會銀行局決議一動決第一幕一般行政向下基本行政工作爲職中業務費資資訊服務費及設備及投資資資訊軟硬體設備費預算各十分之一七金融監督管理委員會銀行局決議二動決第一幕"},{"start":2228.669,"end":2254.208,"text":"一般行政向下基本行政工作維持中業業費至一般事務費預算十分之一。八、金融監督管理委員會銀行局決議三、凍結第二幕銀行監理預算五十萬元。九、金融監督管理委員會政見決議二及決議一、凍結第一幕一般行政向下基本行政工作維持中業業費至教育訓練費預算十分之一。十、金融監督管理委員會政見決議二及決議二、凍結第一幕一般行政向下"},{"start":2254.628,"end":2284.174,"text":"基本行政工作維持中業務費之資訊服務費及設備及熟知之資訊軟硬體設備費預算各十分之一。十一金融監督管理委員會政見企業局決議三動決第一幕一般行政向下基本行政工作維持中業務費之其他業務租金預算十分之一。十二金融監督管理委員會政見企業局決議四動決第二幕政見企業市場監理預算十分之一。十三金融監督管理委員會政見企業局決議五動決第二幕"},{"start":2284.614,"end":2311.864,"text":"政見期貨市場監理向下政見期貨市場監理至業務費預算十分之一十四金融監督管理委員會政見期貨局決議六凍結第二幕政見期貨市場監理預算二十分之一十五金融監督管理委員會政見期貨局決議七凍結第二幕政見期貨市場監理向下政見期貨市場監理中業務費至國外禮費預算三十萬元十六金融監督管理委員會保險局決議一凍結第一幕一般行政向下"},{"start":2312.324,"end":2331.454,"text":"基本行政工作維持預算三十萬元。十七,金融監督管理委員會保險局決議二,凍結第一幕一般行政向下,基本行政工作維持中,業務費資資訊服務費及設備及投資資資訊軟硬體設備費預算各十分之一。十八,金融監督管理委員會保險局決議三,凍結第一幕一般行政向下,"},{"start":2331.934,"end":2350.791,"text":"基本行政工作維持中,業務費之資訊服務費預算30萬元。19.金融監督管理委員會保險局決議四,凍結第二幕保險監理預算20萬元。20.金融監督管理委員會保險局決議五,凍結第二幕保險監理預算十分之一。21.金融監督管理委員會保險局決議六,"},{"start":2352.293,"end":2366.692,"text":"動結第二幕保險監禮向下保險監禮之一會費預算十分之一二十二金融監督管理委員會保險局決議七動結第二幕保險監禮預算二十萬元二十三金融監督管理委員會保險局決議八動結第二幕保險監禮向下"},{"start":2367.853,"end":2368.694,"text":"議案第11屆第12屆議案第12屆議案"},{"start":2389.457,"end":2413.851,"text":"防護建築養護費預算十分之一。二十六,金融監督管理委員會檢查局決議二,凍結第一幕一般行政向下基本行政工作維持中業務費資資訊服務費及設備及投資資資訊軟硬體設備費預算各十分之一。二十七,金融監督管理委員會檢查局決議三,凍結第二幕金融機構檢查預算十分之一。二十八,金融監督管理委員會檢查局決議四,"},{"start":2415.332,"end":2443.438,"text":"動輒第二幕,金融機構檢查向下,金融機構檢查是業務費預算一百萬元,宣布完畢。好,那個書面報告完,那個請問各位委員針對剛剛的預算解凍的書面報告有異議?好,沒有異議。那我們書面報告完成齁,請你通知提報院會齁,那我們先請各位委員針對上次,請,請問各位委員針對上次的決有異議?沒有,好。"},{"start":2445.286,"end":2450.215,"text":"通過旨意動之提報院會我們先休息五分鐘討論後續議程"},{"start":2560.128,"end":2578.413,"text":"好 跟委員會報告一下請大家肅靜我們先繼續我先跟大家說明一下剛剛跟徵詢各位與會委員的會中的意見大家認為現在各地的陸陸續續都有災情傳出那再加上立法院本身的餘震不斷"},{"start":2579.113,"end":2593.802,"text":"那影響到質詢跟備詢者的心情的浮動那也考量到所謂的集中度的風險所以我們今天的會議就是今天到這邊為止但是這個主題呢我後續還會再安排那我們今天就宣布散會"}]}},{"id":"15788","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15788","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcbb5d33df7eda7d07ea093030673645f93be8d109af184be4e6ad185a46f58c3c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-03","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-04-03T08:31:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-04-03T12:54:00+08:00","duration":15774,"影片長度":"04:22:54","委員發言時間":"08:31:06 - 12:54:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"meet":{"sessionPeriod":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[36],"term":11,"id":"公聽會-2024032914","type":"公聽會"},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1879.7709687500003,"end":1880.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1887.0440937500002,"end":1887.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1887.3478437500003,"end":1888.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1893.5915937500001,"end":1896.6122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1896.8484687500002,"end":1900.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1900.5103437500002,"end":1904.1722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1904.6953437500001,"end":1908.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1910.85471875,"end":1912.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1914.3647187500003,"end":1915.8497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1916.2378437500001,"end":1917.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1918.0603437500001,"end":1919.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1921.7728437500002,"end":1927.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1929.9572187500003,"end":1933.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1933.7203437500002,"end":1935.5597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1937.02784375,"end":1937.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1938.2428437500002,"end":1938.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1939.1709687500002,"end":1939.3734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1939.96409375,"end":1942.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1942.9678437500002,"end":1953.2784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1953.61596875,"end":1955.9784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1956.0965937500002,"end":1959.8597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1960.1803437500002,"end":1963.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1966.0865937500002,"end":1969.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1969.78221875,"end":1971.0140937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1971.1322187500002,"end":1972.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1972.8197187500002,"end":1973.4272187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1974.3553437500002,"end":1977.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1979.1140937500002,"end":1982.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1982.2528437500002,"end":1983.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1984.7672187500002,"end":1988.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1989.9815937500002,"end":1990.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1990.9772187500002,"end":1994.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1996.1915937500003,"end":1999.5665937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1999.9715937500002,"end":2000.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2002.68846875,"end":2003.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2003.39721875,"end":2004.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2006.2997187500002,"end":2008.4090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2010.3665937500002,"end":2012.4590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2013.8934687500002,"end":2014.7372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2015.0072187500002,"end":2015.6990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2016.1547187500003,"end":2020.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2021.3015937500002,"end":2026.2459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2027.3597187500002,"end":2031.0215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2032.1522187500002,"end":2034.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2034.8184687500002,"end":2039.5265937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2040.9103437500003,"end":2043.3234687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2044.9772187500002,"end":2046.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2049.17909375,"end":2053.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2054.17409375,"end":2055.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2056.3847187500005,"end":2059.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2060.94096875,"end":2065.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2067.26909375,"end":2069.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2070.0703437500006,"end":2071.5215937499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2072.7028437500003,"end":2078.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2080.70159375,"end":2083.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2084.7009687500004,"end":2090.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2093.96534375,"end":2098.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2099.3484687500004,"end":2104.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2104.5965937500005,"end":2109.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2109.55784375,"end":2110.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2111.19471875,"end":2116.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2116.9997187500003,"end":2119.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2120.22284375,"end":2122.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2122.72034375,"end":2129.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2130.1622187500006,"end":2134.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2134.46534375,"end":2138.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2139.17346875,"end":2143.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2143.32471875,"end":2150.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2153.80409375,"end":2154.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2157.66846875,"end":2162.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2162.9840937500003,"end":2163.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2165.05971875,"end":2166.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2169.04221875,"end":2169.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2169.76784375,"end":2174.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2174.52659375,"end":2176.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2177.17596875,"end":2181.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2182.3397187500004,"end":2183.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2184.31409375,"end":2190.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2191.09784375,"end":2195.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2196.0759687500004,"end":2200.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2201.35784375,"end":2203.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2203.6865937500006,"end":2211.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2212.37721875,"end":2217.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2218.11471875,"end":2218.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2219.12721875,"end":2231.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2231.3447187500005,"end":2236.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2236.67721875,"end":2240.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2240.33909375,"end":2243.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2244.13596875,"end":2247.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2247.40971875,"end":2249.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2250.24471875,"end":2252.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2252.9109687500004,"end":2258.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2258.8172187500004,"end":2268.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2268.50346875,"end":2271.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2271.7772187500004,"end":2275.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2275.72596875,"end":2277.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2278.25721875,"end":2280.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2280.97409375,"end":2281.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2281.1090937500003,"end":2288.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2288.7028437500003,"end":2294.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2296.27971875,"end":2296.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2297.2584687500002,"end":2303.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2318.45346875,"end":2321.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2322.2334687500006,"end":2327.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2327.92034375,"end":2358.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2359.1728437500005,"end":2428.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2429.2715937500006,"end":2450.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2450.9053437500006,"end":2492.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2492.50221875,"end":2515.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2516.0428437500004,"end":2525.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2526.74159375,"end":2582.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2579.7459687500004,"end":2579.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2582.96909375,"end":2584.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2585.09534375,"end":2587.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2587.98096875,"end":2596.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2596.5534687500003,"end":2615.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2615.62221875,"end":2677.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2679.1228437500004,"end":2682.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2682.34596875,"end":2694.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2695.01909375,"end":2695.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2696.09909375,"end":2702.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2702.79846875,"end":2721.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2722.3903437500003,"end":2722.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2722.84596875,"end":2738.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2738.6072187500004,"end":2742.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2743.1297187500004,"end":2743.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2743.8722187500007,"end":2744.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2744.8847187500005,"end":2762.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2762.8565937500007,"end":2780.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2781.2840937500005,"end":2788.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2789.19846875,"end":2790.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2790.90284375,"end":2805.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2805.9384687500005,"end":2817.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2821.5478437500005,"end":2825.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2825.7665937500005,"end":2827.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2828.26409375,"end":2829.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2830.0359687500004,"end":2830.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2831.1834687500004,"end":2832.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2832.8034687500003,"end":2834.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2835.2165937500004,"end":2836.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2836.8534687500005,"end":2841.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2851.16346875,"end":2851.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2851.1803437500002,"end":2862.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2862.43596875,"end":2867.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2868.17346875,"end":2925.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":2926.1053437500004,"end":3208.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3159.6553437500006,"end":3159.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3209.26784375,"end":3306.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3307.3790937500007,"end":3353.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3355.9959687500004,"end":3356.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3356.9747187500006,"end":3358.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3359.0165937500005,"end":3360.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3360.90659375,"end":3360.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3360.97409375,"end":3360.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3360.9909687500003,"end":3361.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3361.02471875,"end":3361.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3361.8515937500006,"end":3361.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3362.1553437500006,"end":3370.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3398.0822187500007,"end":3401.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3402.0984687500004,"end":3406.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3406.7559687500006,"end":3409.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3410.1140937500004,"end":3411.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3412.1053437500004,"end":3418.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3418.5515937500004,"end":3420.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3420.62721875,"end":3427.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3427.5459687500006,"end":3436.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3436.5909687500007,"end":3437.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3437.50221875,"end":3441.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3442.3790937500007,"end":3444.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3444.97784375,"end":3457.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3458.1065937500007,"end":3460.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3460.6209687500004,"end":3463.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3463.5065937500003,"end":3466.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3466.5440937500007,"end":3468.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3468.8053437500002,"end":3470.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3470.96534375,"end":3470.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3471.0665937500007,"end":3473.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3474.15471875,"end":3479.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3480.0440937500007,"end":3490.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3490.9959687500004,"end":3493.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3493.49346875,"end":3499.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3499.93971875,"end":3500.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3500.96909375,"end":3510.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3510.68909375,"end":3511.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3512.0222187500003,"end":3523.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3524.0372187500006,"end":3533.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3534.1622187500006,"end":3537.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3538.04346875,"end":3541.5197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3542.07659375,"end":3544.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3544.8778437500005,"end":3546.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3547.4765937500006,"end":3549.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3550.1934687500006,"end":3550.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3551.1553437500006,"end":3552.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3553.04534375,"end":3554.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3555.34034375,"end":3572.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3572.45159375,"end":3578.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3579.08346875,"end":3580.3322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3581.24346875,"end":3583.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3584.09534375,"end":3594.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3594.55784375,"end":3595.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3595.9415937500007,"end":3599.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3600.1434687500005,"end":3601.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3601.32471875,"end":3607.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3608.00721875,"end":3613.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3613.72784375,"end":3615.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3615.6178437500002,"end":3629.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3629.3709687500004,"end":3645.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3645.26721875,"end":3647.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3647.96721875,"end":3650.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3650.43096875,"end":3655.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3655.98284375,"end":3658.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3659.3915937500005,"end":3670.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3671.4572187500007,"end":3678.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3678.76409375,"end":3680.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3681.4978437500004,"end":3683.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3684.01221875,"end":3697.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3698.1365937500004,"end":3700.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3701.29221875,"end":3702.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3705.1228437500004,"end":3716.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3716.6990937500004,"end":3720.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3720.88409375,"end":3725.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3725.5584687500004,"end":3727.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3727.51596875,"end":3737.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3738.2147187500004,"end":3741.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3741.7922187500008,"end":3746.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3747.3272187500006,"end":3748.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3748.91346875,"end":3754.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3754.6847187500007,"end":3760.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3761.0128437500007,"end":3761.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3762.4472187500005,"end":3763.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3763.8478437500007,"end":3764.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3765.1640937500006,"end":3765.8390937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3767.1384687500004,"end":3768.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3768.1847187500007,"end":3768.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3769.1297187500004,"end":3769.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3770.8172187500004,"end":3772.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3773.02784375,"end":3777.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3778.4109687500004,"end":3779.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3780.4697187500005,"end":3783.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3783.7940937500007,"end":3785.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3788.1309687500006,"end":3789.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3790.20659375,"end":3792.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3794.6278437500005,"end":3796.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3797.8847187500005,"end":3799.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3800.0615937500006,"end":3802.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3802.91346875,"end":3806.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3807.06471875,"end":3810.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3810.45659375,"end":3814.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3815.2322187500004,"end":3816.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3817.74659375,"end":3819.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3819.8897187500006,"end":3821.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3822.13409375,"end":3823.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3823.9734687500004,"end":3824.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3824.07471875,"end":3834.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3835.2965937500003,"end":3837.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3838.3678437500002,"end":3852.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3853.0322187500005,"end":3854.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3854.5340937500005,"end":3857.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3858.4997187500003,"end":3859.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3859.9678437500006,"end":3860.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3861.55409375,"end":3863.4103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3864.03471875,"end":3865.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3866.4815937500007,"end":3868.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3868.9284687500003,"end":3872.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3873.19784375,"end":3881.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3881.31471875,"end":3881.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3883.5422187500008,"end":3886.1915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3886.6640937500006,"end":3889.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3906.10409375,"end":3915.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3917.7478437500004,"end":3919.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3919.9922187500006,"end":3922.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3922.8947187500007,"end":3943.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3943.9715937500005,"end":3944.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3944.78159375,"end":3947.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3947.5322187500005,"end":3956.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3956.71221875,"end":3964.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3964.8965937500006,"end":3969.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3969.79034375,"end":3973.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3973.11471875,"end":3981.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3982.14284375,"end":3982.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3983.1553437500006,"end":3985.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3985.6022187500002,"end":3995.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3995.96346875,"end":4000.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4000.6715937500003,"end":4004.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4004.4684687500003,"end":4030.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4030.4728437500007,"end":4035.4172187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4035.9572187500007,"end":4049.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4050.7565937500003,"end":4051.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4052.78159375,"end":4053.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4053.8278437500003,"end":4060.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4060.7803437500006,"end":4065.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4066.83846875,"end":4069.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4069.8759687500005,"end":4074.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4076.8115937500006,"end":4078.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4078.27971875,"end":4080.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4080.8953437500004,"end":4088.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4088.3203437500006,"end":4099.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4099.542218750001,"end":4100.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4100.55471875,"end":4102.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4103.27159375,"end":4103.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4104.840968750001,"end":4110.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4111.42221875,"end":4124.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4124.83784375,"end":4158.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4159.026593750001,"end":4159.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4159.9715937500005,"end":4161.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4161.86159375,"end":4163.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4163.21159375,"end":4164.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4164.966593749999,"end":4165.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4168.45971875,"end":4168.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4171.88534375,"end":4177.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4177.33596875,"end":4194.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4194.16034375,"end":4204.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4205.1122187500005,"end":4207.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4207.42409375,"end":4217.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4217.245343750001,"end":4221.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4222.56096875,"end":4229.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4229.96909375,"end":4237.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4238.0184687500005,"end":4243.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4243.78971875,"end":4245.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4245.76409375,"end":4252.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4252.4803437499995,"end":4259.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4259.854718750001,"end":4261.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4261.8290937500005,"end":4265.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4266.35159375,"end":4269.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4269.557843750001,"end":4304.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4304.337218750001,"end":4308.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4308.94409375,"end":4314.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4314.85034375,"end":4315.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4315.94721875,"end":4323.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4324.33409375,"end":4333.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4333.64909375,"end":4339.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4339.65659375,"end":4346.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4347.33471875,"end":4352.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4352.9540937500005,"end":4354.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4354.65846875,"end":4355.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4356.19409375,"end":4356.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4356.81846875,"end":4358.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4358.657843749999,"end":4363.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4363.99034375,"end":4366.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4366.47096875,"end":4372.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4372.90034375,"end":4384.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4384.577843749999,"end":4387.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4387.59846875,"end":4389.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4389.33659375,"end":4390.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4390.686593750001,"end":4391.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4392.644093749999,"end":4402.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4402.38096875,"end":4408.675343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4409.333468750001,"end":4410.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4410.599093750001,"end":4411.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4412.337218750001,"end":4413.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4414.530968749999,"end":4419.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4419.39096875,"end":4431.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4433.667218750001,"end":4434.409718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4435.97909375,"end":4444.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4451.50409375,"end":4451.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4452.61784375,"end":4454.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4454.5584687499995,"end":4509.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4510.2459687499995,"end":4518.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4518.835343750001,"end":4519.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4519.577843749999,"end":4521.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4521.67034375,"end":4523.425343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4524.28596875,"end":4590.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4590.57096875,"end":4593.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4594.18221875,"end":4607.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4608.1209687499995,"end":4614.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4614.61784375,"end":4616.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4617.2840937500005,"end":4618.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4618.93784375,"end":4621.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4621.637843750001,"end":4622.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4623.24096875,"end":4627.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4627.780343750001,"end":4632.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4632.876593749999,"end":4633.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4633.8553437499995,"end":4637.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4637.905343750001,"end":4659.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4659.606593750001,"end":4663.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4663.08284375,"end":4665.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4665.5634687500005,"end":4669.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4670.08596875,"end":4676.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4676.7684687500005,"end":4684.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4684.69971875,"end":4685.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4685.96534375,"end":4691.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4692.4959687499995,"end":4739.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4740.0497187500005,"end":4751.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4751.1365937499995,"end":4752.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4752.655343750001,"end":4754.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4756.51971875,"end":4757.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4757.39721875,"end":4760.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4761.835343750001,"end":4767.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4768.46721875,"end":4777.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4793.340968750001,"end":4795.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4808.27534375,"end":4824.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4824.76221875,"end":4829.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4830.263468749999,"end":4831.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4831.579718749999,"end":4832.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4832.895968750001,"end":4833.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4835.30909375,"end":4839.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4840.37159375,"end":4843.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4844.08409375,"end":4845.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4845.95721875,"end":4850.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4850.04096875,"end":4850.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4851.137843750001,"end":4854.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4854.698468750001,"end":4856.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4856.993468750001,"end":4860.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4861.09409375,"end":4863.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4863.8447187500005,"end":4864.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4864.84034375,"end":4867.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4867.810343749999,"end":4870.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4870.45971875,"end":4871.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4872.180968750001,"end":4874.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4874.91471875,"end":4880.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4881.310343749999,"end":4883.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4884.263468749999,"end":4886.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4886.8622187500005,"end":4889.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4889.96721875,"end":4897.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4897.71284375,"end":4900.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4900.952843749999,"end":4902.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4902.99471875,"end":4905.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4906.2684687500005,"end":4908.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4908.546593749999,"end":4909.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4911.7528437500005,"end":4912.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4913.288468750001,"end":4922.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4923.29534375,"end":4931.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4932.4247187500005,"end":4933.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4934.2303437499995,"end":4938.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4938.63471875,"end":4943.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4943.49471875,"end":4946.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4946.68409375,"end":4955.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4955.12159375,"end":4961.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4962.24284375,"end":4962.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4963.13721875,"end":4964.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4964.993468750001,"end":4969.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4969.41471875,"end":4988.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4988.6522187499995,"end":4997.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4997.88284375,"end":4998.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4998.81096875,"end":4999.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4999.874093750001,"end":5016.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5016.698468750001,"end":5041.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5042.517218749999,"end":5045.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5045.284718750001,"end":5045.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5046.4490937499995,"end":5047.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5048.6259687500005,"end":5060.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5060.87721875,"end":5061.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5061.75471875,"end":5065.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5065.450343750001,"end":5066.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5066.68221875,"end":5075.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5075.288468750001,"end":5076.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5077.448468750001,"end":5083.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5083.97909375,"end":5089.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5089.88534375,"end":5092.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5093.108468750001,"end":5094.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5094.34034375,"end":5096.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5096.16284375,"end":5105.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5105.5790937500005,"end":5107.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5107.823468750001,"end":5111.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5111.940968750001,"end":5114.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5115.06284375,"end":5117.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5118.11721875,"end":5122.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5123.17971875,"end":5124.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5125.00221875,"end":5127.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5127.921593749999,"end":5128.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5129.052218750001,"end":5129.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5129.49096875,"end":5132.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5132.96721875,"end":5134.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5134.89096875,"end":5135.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5135.565968750001,"end":5146.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5146.83846875,"end":5148.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5148.44159375,"end":5151.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5151.20909375,"end":5159.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5173.112843750001,"end":5176.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5178.411593750001,"end":5181.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5189.36346875,"end":5190.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5205.310343749999,"end":5256.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5256.795968750001,"end":5259.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5259.968468749999,"end":5264.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5264.2040937500005,"end":5276.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5276.995343750001,"end":5298.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5298.57846875,"end":5309.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5309.901593750001,"end":5312.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5313.225968750001,"end":5322.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5323.114718750001,"end":5343.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5344.41096875,"end":5362.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5363.294093750001,"end":5392.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5393.247218750001,"end":5412.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5413.294718749999,"end":5428.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5428.33034375,"end":5430.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5430.372218750001,"end":5434.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5434.304093750001,"end":5444.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5445.137843750001,"end":5456.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5457.3553437499995,"end":5471.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5471.985968749999,"end":5505.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5505.550343750001,"end":5510.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5510.59596875,"end":5536.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5537.055968750001,"end":5559.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5559.465968750001,"end":5578.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5579.142218749999,"end":5594.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5594.86971875,"end":5597.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5597.97471875,"end":5601.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5602.109093749999,"end":5609.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5610.124718749999,"end":5624.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5624.890343749999,"end":5643.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5644.22909375,"end":5664.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5665.120343750001,"end":5680.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5680.79721875,"end":5684.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5685.420968750001,"end":5708.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5710.075343750001,"end":5715.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5724.554093750001,"end":5730.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5731.489718750001,"end":5732.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5732.384093750001,"end":5732.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5733.5653437500005,"end":5741.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5741.96909375,"end":5744.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5745.9853437500005,"end":5752.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5753.5790937500005,"end":5760.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5760.970343749999,"end":5762.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5762.50596875,"end":5777.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5778.604718750001,"end":5791.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5791.868468750001,"end":5806.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5807.376593750001,"end":5808.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5810.21159375,"end":5810.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5811.510968750001,"end":5813.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5814.042218750001,"end":5815.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5816.64096875,"end":5817.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5817.95721875,"end":5819.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5819.03721875,"end":5819.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5820.28596875,"end":5825.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5825.9559687500005,"end":5830.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5831.423468750001,"end":5842.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5843.40471875,"end":5845.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5847.01596875,"end":5850.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5851.09971875,"end":5860.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5861.22471875,"end":5876.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5876.68221875,"end":5883.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5884.579718750001,"end":5893.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5894.198468750001,"end":5918.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5918.7684687500005,"end":5928.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5928.977843750001,"end":5944.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5944.958468750001,"end":5951.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5952.14721875,"end":5995.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5996.0897187499995,"end":6039.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6041.432843750001,"end":6042.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6043.154093749999,"end":6046.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6061.46346875,"end":6094.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6094.859093749999,"end":6096.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6096.20909375,"end":6107.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6107.36346875,"end":6122.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6122.73659375,"end":6128.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6128.54159375,"end":6133.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6134.31284375,"end":6161.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6162.173468750001,"end":6164.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6164.9072187500005,"end":6176.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6177.10784375,"end":6187.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6188.31284375,"end":6200.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6200.91846875,"end":6206.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6206.622218750001,"end":6248.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6250.024718750001,"end":6251.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6253.36596875,"end":6256.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6256.08284375,"end":6256.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6260.9090937500005,"end":6263.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6263.40659375,"end":6263.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6263.82846875,"end":6263.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6263.946593750001,"end":6264.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6264.11534375,"end":6264.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6264.317843750001,"end":6265.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6268.38471875,"end":6269.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6270.24096875,"end":6281.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6282.30659375,"end":6286.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6286.6434687500005,"end":6296.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6296.700968749999,"end":6328.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6328.66221875,"end":6354.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6354.44721875,"end":6358.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6358.69971875,"end":6364.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6364.774718750001,"end":6373.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6374.03909375,"end":6375.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6375.456593750001,"end":6376.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6376.907843750001,"end":6378.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6379.2197187500005,"end":6382.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6383.185343749999,"end":6387.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6388.75409375,"end":6389.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6390.07034375,"end":6391.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6391.859093749999,"end":6396.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6397.32659375,"end":6403.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6403.907843750001,"end":6404.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6405.882218750001,"end":6428.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6428.764718750001,"end":6460.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6461.147843750001,"end":6461.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6462.312218749999,"end":6469.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6470.31096875,"end":6475.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6475.69409375,"end":6479.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6480.25034375,"end":6485.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6486.07221875,"end":6489.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6490.1728437500005,"end":6503.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6503.841593749999,"end":6529.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6529.79534375,"end":6558.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6559.00596875,"end":6627.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6627.231593750001,"end":6628.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6628.61534375,"end":6632.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6632.96909375,"end":6637.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6639.415343750001,"end":6644.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6657.505343750001,"end":6658.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6658.19721875,"end":6660.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6661.538468750001,"end":6664.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6665.74034375,"end":6669.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6670.583468750001,"end":6673.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6674.21159375,"end":6678.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6678.497843749999,"end":6680.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6681.72096875,"end":6682.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6683.189093750001,"end":6684.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6684.72471875,"end":6688.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6688.774718750001,"end":6692.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6693.499718749999,"end":6696.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6697.347218750001,"end":6704.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6704.940968750001,"end":6708.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6708.72096875,"end":6713.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6714.49221875,"end":6718.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6719.55471875,"end":6722.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6722.389718750001,"end":6723.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6725.44409375,"end":6727.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6728.26221875,"end":6729.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6729.983468750001,"end":6731.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6732.53159375,"end":6734.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6734.809718750001,"end":6735.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6736.446593750001,"end":6739.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6739.585343750001,"end":6742.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6744.225968750001,"end":6753.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6753.54096875,"end":6756.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6757.2197187500005,"end":6761.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6762.82221875,"end":6766.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6767.057843750001,"end":6768.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6768.9647187499995,"end":6770.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6771.20909375,"end":6775.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6776.288468750001,"end":6779.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6780.05159375,"end":6783.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6783.94971875,"end":6784.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6785.249093750001,"end":6787.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6787.93221875,"end":6793.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6794.36159375,"end":6807.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6808.772843750001,"end":6810.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6810.510968750001,"end":6812.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6813.835343750001,"end":6815.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6816.6365937499995,"end":6820.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6821.530343750001,"end":6822.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6822.89721875,"end":6823.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6824.31471875,"end":6825.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6826.03596875,"end":6827.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6830.03534375,"end":6835.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6836.4647187499995,"end":6837.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6838.97909375,"end":6844.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6845.577218750001,"end":6849.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6850.55534375,"end":6853.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6854.200343750001,"end":6854.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6855.98909375,"end":6856.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6857.6259687500005,"end":6862.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6863.86971875,"end":6868.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6868.8309687500005,"end":6870.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6871.5478437500005,"end":6872.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6872.847218750001,"end":6878.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6879.327218750001,"end":6885.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6886.09409375,"end":6890.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6891.94971875,"end":6893.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6894.80159375,"end":6898.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6899.17221875,"end":6902.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6903.5428437499995,"end":6905.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6906.512843750001,"end":6909.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6911.187218749999,"end":6912.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6913.347218750001,"end":6914.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6915.57471875,"end":6917.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6918.66284375,"end":6919.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6919.94534375,"end":6926.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6927.10034375,"end":6930.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6931.31909375,"end":6934.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6936.128468750001,"end":6941.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6941.562218750001,"end":6943.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6944.515343750001,"end":6945.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6945.7978437500005,"end":6949.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6950.21909375,"end":6961.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6963.364718750001,"end":6968.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6968.78159375,"end":6971.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6972.00471875,"end":6978.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6978.9403437500005,"end":6984.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6985.50471875,"end":6989.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6990.5165937500005,"end":6991.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6992.102843750001,"end":7019.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7022.44409375,"end":7031.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7031.843468750001,"end":7034.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7036.75409375,"end":7039.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7041.02346875,"end":7043.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7045.343468750001,"end":7049.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7050.827843750001,"end":7050.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7051.249718750001,"end":7054.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7056.970343750001,"end":7057.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7057.780343750001,"end":7058.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7059.737843750001,"end":7059.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7060.446593750001,"end":7064.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7073.6259687500005,"end":7101.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7102.397843750001,"end":7106.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7106.937218750001,"end":7107.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7108.5740937499995,"end":7112.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7110.95346875,"end":7111.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7111.66221875,"end":7112.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7112.843468750001,"end":7115.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7115.762843750001,"end":7118.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7118.749718750001,"end":7124.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7124.68971875,"end":7247.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7248.045968750001,"end":7251.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7251.319718750001,"end":7253.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7253.800343750001,"end":7275.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7275.95721875,"end":7277.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7277.8134687500005,"end":7278.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7279.18034375,"end":7283.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7284.24284375,"end":7285.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7287.06096875,"end":7289.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7290.030968750001,"end":7290.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7291.46534375,"end":7292.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7292.241593750001,"end":7294.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7294.14846875,"end":7296.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7296.62909375,"end":7297.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7298.50221875,"end":7299.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7300.18971875,"end":7300.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7301.4384687500005,"end":7302.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7303.210343750001,"end":7305.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7306.14659375,"end":7309.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7309.89284375,"end":7314.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7315.124093750001,"end":7348.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7349.430968750001,"end":7380.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7380.784718750001,"end":7390.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7390.79159375,"end":7394.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7395.58409375,"end":7398.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7398.75659375,"end":7401.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7402.14846875,"end":7410.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7410.43409375,"end":7410.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7410.9403437500005,"end":7411.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7412.08784375,"end":7413.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7413.70784375,"end":7417.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7417.97721875,"end":7419.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7420.27221875,"end":7421.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7422.43221875,"end":7442.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7442.479718750001,"end":7443.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7443.4247187500005,"end":7446.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7447.55909375,"end":7448.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7449.128468750001,"end":7454.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7454.68034375,"end":7459.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7459.37159375,"end":7460.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7460.704718750001,"end":7463.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7464.58596875,"end":7467.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7468.0790937500005,"end":7489.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7490.21909375,"end":7496.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7496.86784375,"end":7504.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7504.680968750001,"end":7505.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7505.82846875,"end":7515.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7515.919718749999,"end":7536.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7537.57034375,"end":7540.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7541.198468750001,"end":7544.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7545.58596875,"end":7547.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7547.88096875,"end":7549.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7549.55159375,"end":7563.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7564.637843750001,"end":7568.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7582.89659375,"end":7582.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7590.30471875,"end":7590.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7590.43971875,"end":7591.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7591.435343749999,"end":7591.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7591.485968750001,"end":7597.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7597.392218750001,"end":7597.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7597.45971875,"end":7597.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7597.8309687500005,"end":7598.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7598.69159375,"end":7598.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7598.82659375,"end":7599.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7598.843468750001,"end":7598.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7598.8603437500005,"end":7599.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7599.029093749999,"end":7600.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7599.923468750001,"end":7600.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7600.260968750001,"end":7601.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7600.9697187500005,"end":7602.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7601.12159375,"end":7601.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7602.85971875,"end":7602.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7602.977843750001,"end":7603.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7603.686593750001,"end":7604.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7604.192843750001,"end":7607.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7607.41596875,"end":7607.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7607.989718750001,"end":7608.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7608.175343750001,"end":7615.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7608.34409375,"end":7608.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7608.61409375,"end":7608.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7608.968468750001,"end":7614.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7614.081593750001,"end":7615.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7615.161593750001,"end":7615.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7615.5497187500005,"end":7615.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7615.56659375,"end":7619.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7615.9715937500005,"end":7616.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7616.663468750001,"end":7617.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7620.359093750001,"end":7620.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7637.97659375,"end":7638.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7656.70784375,"end":7658.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7658.64846875,"end":7660.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7660.75784375,"end":7667.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7664.31846875,"end":7664.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8084.32034375,"end":8087.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8088.62346875,"end":8091.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8094.02346875,"end":8096.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8102.64659375,"end":8106.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8106.747218750001,"end":8119.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8120.095343750001,"end":8121.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8121.95159375,"end":8125.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8126.11971875,"end":8132.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8133.49409375,"end":8137.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8138.06721875,"end":8140.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8140.75034375,"end":8141.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8142.57284375,"end":8144.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8144.68221875,"end":8145.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8145.593468750001,"end":8151.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8152.444718750001,"end":8153.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8154.06471875,"end":8155.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8156.292218750001,"end":8157.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8157.405968750001,"end":8158.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8158.89096875,"end":8160.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8161.23659375,"end":8163.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8163.81846875,"end":8165.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8165.708468750001,"end":8167.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8168.3915937500005,"end":8170.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8170.83846875,"end":8172.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8172.593468750001,"end":8173.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8174.16284375,"end":8176.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8177.149718750001,"end":8180.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8180.474093750001,"end":8183.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8184.30471875,"end":8186.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8186.97096875,"end":8187.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8188.253468750001,"end":8196.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8197.21409375,"end":8197.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8198.41221875,"end":8205.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8205.921593750001,"end":8206.259093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8206.79909375,"end":8208.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8208.75659375,"end":8209.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8210.32596875,"end":8210.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8211.06846875,"end":8211.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8212.33409375,"end":8215.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8215.55721875,"end":8216.384093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8216.519093750001,"end":8217.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8217.41346875,"end":8218.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8219.08409375,"end":8222.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8223.117218750001,"end":8225.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8225.56409375,"end":8230.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8230.96409375,"end":8231.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8231.672843750002,"end":8233.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8233.765343750001,"end":8234.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8235.199718750002,"end":8236.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8237.76471875,"end":8239.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8240.430968749999,"end":8242.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8242.422218750002,"end":8244.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8244.227843749999,"end":8250.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8250.809093750002,"end":8257.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8258.06534375,"end":8264.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8264.54534375,"end":8265.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8265.43971875,"end":8269.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8269.995968750001,"end":8270.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8270.56971875,"end":8271.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8271.91971875,"end":8272.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8273.539718750002,"end":8275.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8275.750343750002,"end":8278.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8278.450343750003,"end":8281.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8281.67346875,"end":8285.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8285.284718750001,"end":8288.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8288.828468750002,"end":8289.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8289.621593750002,"end":8290.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8291.49471875,"end":8292.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8292.55784375,"end":8294.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8294.954093750002,"end":8296.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8296.97909375,"end":8297.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8298.17721875,"end":8302.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8303.05409375,"end":8305.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8306.05784375,"end":8307.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8308.454093750002,"end":8321.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8322.22409375,"end":8324.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8324.907218750002,"end":8327.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8327.87721875,"end":8329.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8330.08784375,"end":8331.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8332.484093750001,"end":8334.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8334.88034375,"end":8336.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8337.074093750001,"end":8338.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8338.91346875,"end":8344.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8345.00534375,"end":8345.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8346.22034375,"end":8346.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8346.96284375,"end":8348.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8349.49409375,"end":8351.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8351.215343750002,"end":8352.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8353.004093750002,"end":8354.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8354.742218750001,"end":8355.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8355.24846875,"end":8356.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8357.05409375,"end":8358.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8358.84284375,"end":8361.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8361.644093750001,"end":8365.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8365.47471875,"end":8373.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8374.266593750002,"end":8374.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8375.144093750001,"end":8376.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8376.426593750002,"end":8377.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8377.81034375,"end":8379.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8379.801593750002,"end":8382.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8382.87284375,"end":8385.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8386.332218750002,"end":8398.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8399.612843750001,"end":8404.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8405.67096875,"end":8412.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8413.16346875,"end":8414.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8414.90159375,"end":8419.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8419.49159375,"end":8425.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8425.634093750003,"end":8427.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8427.945968750002,"end":8431.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8432.56971875,"end":8434.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8435.219093750002,"end":8442.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8443.09971875,"end":8448.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8448.972218750001,"end":8451.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8451.773468750001,"end":8454.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8455.249718750001,"end":8462.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8462.57346875,"end":8463.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8463.805343750002,"end":8464.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8465.57721875,"end":8469.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8469.964718750001,"end":8485.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8486.485343750002,"end":8491.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8492.543468750002,"end":8495.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8496.10409375,"end":8497.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8497.94346875,"end":8500.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8500.559093750002,"end":8501.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8501.85846875,"end":8505.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8505.824093750001,"end":8517.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8517.24846875,"end":8520.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8520.84284375,"end":8522.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8522.51346875,"end":8523.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8523.32346875,"end":8524.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8525.348468750002,"end":8526.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8527.086593750002,"end":8529.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8538.88221875,"end":8612.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8612.42346875,"end":8615.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8615.22471875,"end":8658.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8659.63971875,"end":8660.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8660.449718750002,"end":8669.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8670.43971875,"end":8671.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8671.28346875,"end":8679.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8680.007843750001,"end":8695.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8695.465343750002,"end":8706.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8706.957218750002,"end":8723.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8724.102218750002,"end":8725.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8726.27909375,"end":8726.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8727.02159375,"end":8757.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8758.493468750003,"end":8772.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8772.70221875,"end":8777.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8777.54534375,"end":8789.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8790.387218750002,"end":8795.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8796.074093750001,"end":8841.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8842.581593750001,"end":8861.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8862.44346875,"end":8912.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8913.102218750002,"end":8916.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8917.86096875,"end":8918.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8919.683468750001,"end":8921.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8922.61971875,"end":8926.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8926.46721875,"end":8944.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8944.55721875,"end":8952.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8953.973468750002,"end":8956.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8957.31471875,"end":8972.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8973.430343750002,"end":9005.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9005.47596875,"end":9011.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9012.20909375,"end":9012.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9012.765968750002,"end":9020.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9021.64221875,"end":9022.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9022.97534375,"end":9046.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9047.07284375,"end":9076.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9077.144093750001,"end":9079.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9080.485343750002,"end":9085.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9086.374718750001,"end":9096.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9096.972218750001,"end":9098.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9098.81159375,"end":9109.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9109.44284375,"end":9119.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9120.37784375,"end":9120.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9121.440968750001,"end":9132.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9132.527843750002,"end":9140.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9140.762843750003,"end":9165.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9165.72096875,"end":9208.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9208.65096875,"end":9224.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9224.445968750002,"end":9285.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9286.02284375,"end":9299.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9300.012218750002,"end":9302.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9304.16346875,"end":9390.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9390.69846875,"end":9393.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9393.837218750003,"end":9396.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9409.36221875,"end":9453.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9453.65909375,"end":9471.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9471.344093750002,"end":9488.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9488.99534375,"end":9490.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9491.070968750002,"end":9515.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9516.231593750003,"end":9558.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9559.634093750003,"end":9563.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9564.325343750003,"end":9572.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9572.56034375,"end":9573.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9573.50534375,"end":9585.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9586.11096875,"end":9587.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9588.895343750002,"end":9601.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9602.395343750002,"end":9605.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9605.68596875,"end":9619.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9619.81034375,"end":9624.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9625.058468750001,"end":9638.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9638.727218750002,"end":9641.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9641.781593750002,"end":9642.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9643.70534375,"end":9647.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9648.059093750002,"end":9649.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9650.438468750002,"end":9651.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9652.21034375,"end":9653.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9654.20159375,"end":9655.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9656.56409375,"end":9658.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9658.63971875,"end":9663.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9663.73596875,"end":9665.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9665.69346875,"end":9672.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9672.76409375,"end":9673.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9674.18159375,"end":9675.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9676.324718750002,"end":9677.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9678.36659375,"end":9680.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9680.543468750002,"end":9681.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9681.79221875,"end":9682.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9682.46721875,"end":9683.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9683.61471875,"end":9685.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9686.09534375,"end":9692.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9692.37284375,"end":9694.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9694.70159375,"end":9697.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9697.11471875,"end":9697.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9697.469093750002,"end":9698.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9699.426593750002,"end":9700.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9700.675343750001,"end":9702.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9702.83534375,"end":9704.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9705.24846875,"end":9707.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9707.62784375,"end":9709.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9710.09159375,"end":9712.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9713.46659375,"end":9714.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9715.22159375,"end":9717.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9717.415343750003,"end":9719.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9719.86221875,"end":9724.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9725.042843750001,"end":9726.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9727.82721875,"end":9730.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9730.915343750003,"end":9734.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9734.40846875,"end":9736.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9736.973468750002,"end":9741.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9742.457843750002,"end":9743.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9744.28034375,"end":9745.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9745.782218750002,"end":9746.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9747.250343750002,"end":9748.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9749.106593750003,"end":9750.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9751.722218750001,"end":9753.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9754.30409375,"end":9755.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9755.87346875,"end":9757.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9757.76346875,"end":9762.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9762.960968750001,"end":9769.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9769.559093750002,"end":9783.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9784.274093750002,"end":9793.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9793.94346875,"end":9798.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9799.883468750002,"end":9810.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9810.227843750003,"end":9811.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9811.71284375,"end":9815.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9816.117218750001,"end":9817.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9817.61909375,"end":9818.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9818.969093750002,"end":9820.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9821.16284375,"end":9822.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9822.968468750001,"end":9858.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9859.722218750001,"end":9862.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9863.097218750001,"end":9873.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9874.032218750002,"end":9875.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9875.43284375,"end":9876.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9876.968468750001,"end":9878.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9878.52096875,"end":9879.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9879.75284375,"end":9881.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9881.91284375,"end":9883.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9884.24159375,"end":9886.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9886.671593750001,"end":9888.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9889.01721875,"end":9916.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9918.480968750002,"end":9922.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9934.934093750002,"end":9940.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9940.587218750003,"end":9945.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9945.582218750002,"end":9948.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9949.024718750003,"end":9952.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9952.905968750001,"end":9971.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9972.008468750002,"end":9973.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9974.13471875,"end":9980.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9980.800343750001,"end":10008.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10008.35721875,"end":10163.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10163.894093750001,"end":10181.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10182.13596875,"end":10198.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10199.63534375,"end":10290.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10290.59159375,"end":10381.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10381.98659375,"end":10429.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10431.210968750001,"end":10435.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10441.63971875,"end":10476.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10478.39346875,"end":10498.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10498.829093750002,"end":10551.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10552.508468750002,"end":10580.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10580.89221875,"end":10581.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10581.90471875,"end":10630.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10631.01096875,"end":10722.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10723.75596875,"end":10724.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10724.92034375,"end":10731.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10732.61534375,"end":10743.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10744.37721875,"end":10757.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10757.809718750003,"end":10765.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10766.06159375,"end":10794.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10794.78284375,"end":10796.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10798.782218750002,"end":10799.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10800.13221875,"end":10801.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10803.827843750001,"end":10807.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10807.641593750002,"end":10808.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10809.14346875,"end":10811.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10812.19784375,"end":10815.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10815.82596875,"end":10819.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10819.84221875,"end":10821.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10822.238468750002,"end":10829.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10829.849093750003,"end":10832.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10832.852843750003,"end":10833.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10834.118468750003,"end":10835.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10835.907218750002,"end":10837.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10838.016593750002,"end":10838.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10839.19784375,"end":10840.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10840.497218750003,"end":10841.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10841.965343750002,"end":10845.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10846.184093750002,"end":10846.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10846.859093750001,"end":10847.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10848.00659375,"end":10852.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10852.512218750002,"end":10854.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10855.094093750002,"end":10856.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10856.730968750002,"end":10870.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10870.551593750002,"end":10871.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10872.930968750003,"end":10879.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10879.74846875,"end":10881.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10881.824093750001,"end":10883.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10884.034718750001,"end":10886.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10887.409718750001,"end":10888.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10889.063468750002,"end":10891.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10891.544093750003,"end":10892.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10893.214718750001,"end":10897.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10898.192843750003,"end":10899.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10899.47534375,"end":10901.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10901.90534375,"end":10903.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10904.79096875,"end":10913.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10913.515343750001,"end":10914.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10915.742843750002,"end":10924.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10925.277218750001,"end":10925.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10926.289718750002,"end":10929.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10930.407218750002,"end":10933.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10933.664093750001,"end":10934.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10935.16596875,"end":10935.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10936.043468750002,"end":10938.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10938.60846875,"end":10940.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10940.92034375,"end":10943.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10944.261593750001,"end":10948.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10957.829093750002,"end":10959.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10959.364718750003,"end":10963.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10964.562218750001,"end":10964.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10965.422843750002,"end":10981.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10981.36971875,"end":10983.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10983.867218750001,"end":10996.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10996.40534375,"end":11004.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11004.87659375,"end":11007.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11007.660968750002,"end":11009.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11010.074093750001,"end":11010.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11011.019093750001,"end":11012.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11013.094718750002,"end":11022.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11023.18596875,"end":11026.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11027.067218750002,"end":11032.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11032.83846875,"end":11034.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11034.914093750001,"end":11037.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11037.816593750002,"end":11040.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11040.63471875,"end":11044.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11044.245968750001,"end":11048.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11048.633468750002,"end":11054.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11055.130343750003,"end":11057.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11057.83034375,"end":11058.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11058.77534375,"end":11064.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11064.597218750001,"end":11065.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11066.200343750003,"end":11067.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11067.297218750002,"end":11069.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11069.69346875,"end":11070.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11071.161593750003,"end":11072.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11072.680343750002,"end":11073.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11074.48596875,"end":11075.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11076.08909375,"end":11078.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11078.72159375,"end":11082.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11083.109093750001,"end":11084.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11084.83034375,"end":11090.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11091.25971875,"end":11094.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11094.769718750002,"end":11101.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11102.093468750001,"end":11105.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11105.755343750003,"end":11106.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11106.632843750001,"end":11108.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11108.472218750001,"end":11111.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11111.61096875,"end":11112.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11113.028468750003,"end":11117.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11118.664718750002,"end":11119.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11119.64346875,"end":11122.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11123.17034375,"end":11125.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11126.02221875,"end":11127.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11127.49034375,"end":11129.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11130.17346875,"end":11130.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11131.202843750001,"end":11132.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11132.755343750003,"end":11134.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11135.18534375,"end":11136.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11138.695343750001,"end":11139.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11139.707843750002,"end":11142.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11144.145968750003,"end":11144.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11144.93909375,"end":11147.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11147.85846875,"end":11148.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11148.60096875,"end":11152.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11152.667843750001,"end":11154.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11155.03034375,"end":11156.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11156.75159375,"end":11160.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11161.054718750001,"end":11165.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11165.77971875,"end":11166.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11167.382843750001,"end":11169.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11169.441593750002,"end":11173.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11173.812218750001,"end":11176.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11177.406593750002,"end":11178.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11179.00971875,"end":11180.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11180.984093750001,"end":11183.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11183.802218750003,"end":11184.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11185.422218750002,"end":11189.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11189.438468750002,"end":11196.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11197.774718750003,"end":11200.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11201.234093750001,"end":11202.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11202.837218750003,"end":11205.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11206.195343750001,"end":11207.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11207.579093750002,"end":11208.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11208.65909375,"end":11209.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11210.464718750001,"end":11211.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11212.219718750002,"end":11213.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11214.312218750001,"end":11214.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11214.902843750002,"end":11217.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11217.687218750001,"end":11221.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11222.10846875,"end":11223.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11223.660968750002,"end":11224.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11224.74096875,"end":11226.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11227.457843750002,"end":11231.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11232.48659375,"end":11235.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11235.76034375,"end":11236.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11237.211593750002,"end":11237.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11238.96659375,"end":11239.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11240.24909375,"end":11241.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11242.61159375,"end":11245.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11245.750343750002,"end":11247.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11248.062218750001,"end":11248.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11248.770968750003,"end":11252.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11253.917843750001,"end":11255.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11255.520968750003,"end":11256.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11257.208468750003,"end":11257.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11257.79909375,"end":11260.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11261.27534375,"end":11262.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11263.45221875,"end":11270.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11270.708468750003,"end":11276.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11276.800343750001,"end":11287.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11288.07284375,"end":11289.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11289.65909375,"end":11295.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11295.852218750002,"end":11298.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11299.09221875,"end":11300.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11301.083468750003,"end":11304.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11304.542843750001,"end":11307.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11308.356593750003,"end":11310.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11310.550343750001,"end":11312.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11313.149093750002,"end":11315.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11315.54534375,"end":11317.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11317.82346875,"end":11323.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11323.527218750001,"end":11325.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11325.87284375,"end":11339.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11339.69346875,"end":11344.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11344.85721875,"end":11345.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11346.780968750001,"end":11351.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11351.421593750001,"end":11352.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11353.36221875,"end":11353.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11354.324093750001,"end":11355.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11355.40409375,"end":11356.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11357.226593750001,"end":11358.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11358.542843750001,"end":11358.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11359.53846875,"end":11360.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11361.090968750003,"end":11363.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11363.875343750002,"end":11366.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11367.26721875,"end":11371.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11371.688468750002,"end":11373.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11374.270343750002,"end":11376.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11376.700343750003,"end":11378.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11379.02909375,"end":11380.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11380.76721875,"end":11383.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11384.243468750003,"end":11385.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11385.10409375,"end":11385.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11386.352843750003,"end":11386.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11387.31471875,"end":11387.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11387.989718750003,"end":11392.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11392.47846875,"end":11394.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11394.840968750003,"end":11395.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11396.309093750002,"end":11397.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11397.76034375,"end":11398.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11399.515343750001,"end":11400.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11401.08471875,"end":11405.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11405.708468750003,"end":11407.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11407.497218750003,"end":11408.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11408.813468750002,"end":11409.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11410.04534375,"end":11410.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11411.00721875,"end":11412.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11413.656593750002,"end":11415.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11415.37784375,"end":11416.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11417.132843750001,"end":11418.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11418.719093750002,"end":11419.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11419.96784375,"end":11422.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11422.161593750003,"end":11422.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11422.97159375,"end":11425.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11426.532218750002,"end":11427.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11427.156593750002,"end":11430.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11431.08846875,"end":11435.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11435.61096875,"end":11443.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11443.508468750002,"end":11446.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11447.085968750001,"end":11453.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11453.363468750002,"end":11459.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11462.543468750002,"end":11466.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11466.74534375,"end":11467.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11489.864093750002,"end":11501.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11501.929718750001,"end":11540.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11541.434093750002,"end":11574.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11575.63971875,"end":11575.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11576.95596875,"end":11594.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11595.315968750001,"end":11603.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11603.652218750001,"end":11607.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11608.15784375,"end":11613.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11614.047218750002,"end":11634.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11635.59659375,"end":11652.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11652.45471875,"end":11684.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11685.293468750002,"end":11695.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11696.76846875,"end":11698.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11698.962218750003,"end":11702.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11703.062843750002,"end":11715.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11715.837218750003,"end":11723.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11723.852843750003,"end":11730.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11730.636593750001,"end":11738.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11739.37784375,"end":11739.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11740.862843750001,"end":11745.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11746.33034375,"end":11753.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11754.29534375,"end":11760.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11760.79221875,"end":11784.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11784.906593750002,"end":11795.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11796.60096875,"end":11819.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11820.15846875,"end":11820.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11821.187843750002,"end":11821.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11821.89659375,"end":11824.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11825.76096875,"end":11853.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11853.840968750003,"end":11874.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11875.10346875,"end":11894.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11894.94846875,"end":11905.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11906.01846875,"end":11924.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11925.20534375,"end":11939.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11940.224093750003,"end":11944.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11945.269718750002,"end":11952.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11953.487843750001,"end":11963.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11964.43971875,"end":11972.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11973.34971875,"end":11983.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11984.520968750003,"end":11986.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11986.934093750002,"end":11989.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11989.43159375,"end":12002.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12003.066593750002,"end":12041.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12042.469718750002,"end":12042.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12042.824093750001,"end":12042.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12042.97596875,"end":12044.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12044.950343750003,"end":12046.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12047.414093750001,"end":12049.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12051.07596875,"end":12051.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12051.66659375,"end":12052.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12052.965968750003,"end":12053.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12054.315968750001,"end":12061.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12076.01721875,"end":12076.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12078.46409375,"end":12082.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12082.73346875,"end":12083.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12085.230968750002,"end":12089.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12090.124718750001,"end":12095.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12095.507843750001,"end":12101.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12101.61659375,"end":12102.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12103.067843750003,"end":12106.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12106.375343750002,"end":12106.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12107.08409375,"end":12110.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12110.56034375,"end":12117.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12117.68159375,"end":12124.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12124.988468750002,"end":12128.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12128.59971875,"end":12132.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12132.88596875,"end":12143.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12144.462218750003,"end":12148.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12149.01846875,"end":12149.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12149.558468750001,"end":12154.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12155.24534375,"end":12155.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12156.409718750001,"end":12162.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12162.906593750002,"end":12167.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12168.32346875,"end":12172.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12172.980968750002,"end":12177.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12178.347218750001,"end":12184.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12184.270343750002,"end":12192.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12192.910343750002,"end":12198.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12198.563468750002,"end":12199.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12199.54221875,"end":12214.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12214.645343750002,"end":12218.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12219.167843750001,"end":12222.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12223.133468750002,"end":12232.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12233.680343750002,"end":12234.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12234.64221875,"end":12236.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12237.17346875,"end":12244.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12245.914718750002,"end":12246.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12246.72471875,"end":12247.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12248.14221875,"end":12248.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12250.04909375,"end":12250.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12250.454093750002,"end":12250.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12255.01034375,"end":12257.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12257.96346875,"end":12261.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12262.08096875,"end":12262.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12262.77284375,"end":12266.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12267.312218750001,"end":12275.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12275.817218750002,"end":12283.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12283.191593750002,"end":12297.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12297.855968750002,"end":12300.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12300.10034375,"end":12303.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12304.42034375,"end":12309.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12309.65159375,"end":12321.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12321.56534375,"end":12324.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12324.552218750003,"end":12332.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12332.179718750001,"end":12333.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12333.664718750002,"end":12334.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12335.301593750002,"end":12336.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12336.921593750001,"end":12340.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12341.511593750001,"end":12343.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12344.009093750003,"end":12350.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12350.708468750003,"end":12354.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12355.332218750002,"end":12355.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12355.855343750001,"end":12356.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12357.087218750003,"end":12357.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12358.032218750002,"end":12387.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12388.238468750002,"end":12392.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12392.59221875,"end":12397.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12398.32971875,"end":12398.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12399.257843750001,"end":12400.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12401.114093750002,"end":12404.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12404.809718750003,"end":12409.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12410.09159375,"end":12413.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12414.394718750002,"end":12415.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12415.57596875,"end":12418.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12419.052218750003,"end":12422.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12422.629718750002,"end":12424.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12425.160968750002,"end":12428.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12429.14346875,"end":12456.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12456.76784375,"end":12482.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12483.97034375,"end":12484.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12484.864718750003,"end":12484.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12485.269718750002,"end":12485.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12487.379093750002,"end":12501.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12493.352843750003,"end":12493.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12501.840968750003,"end":12505.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12506.160968750002,"end":12507.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12507.747218750003,"end":12508.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12509.957843750002,"end":12510.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12511.054718750001,"end":12511.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12515.08784375,"end":12516.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12518.800343750001,"end":12522.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12522.69846875,"end":12532.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12532.18221875,"end":12532.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12533.009093750003,"end":12534.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12534.274718750003,"end":12547.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12547.25159375,"end":12551.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12552.63471875,"end":12560.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12561.207218750002,"end":12563.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12563.940968750001,"end":12569.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12569.914718750002,"end":12572.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12572.51346875,"end":12573.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12573.72846875,"end":12574.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12576.344093750002,"end":12576.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12578.284718750001,"end":12578.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12580.91721875,"end":12581.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12582.11534375,"end":12597.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12597.89346875,"end":12599.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12599.31096875,"end":12600.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12600.79596875,"end":12604.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12605.58846875,"end":12606.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12607.17471875,"end":12607.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12607.69784375,"end":12607.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12608.00159375,"end":12608.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12608.895968750003,"end":12614.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12616.87784375,"end":12619.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12619.864718750003,"end":12625.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12626.918468750002,"end":12630.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12631.42409375,"end":12636.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12636.149093750002,"end":12641.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12643.169093750003,"end":12649.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12663.874718750001,"end":12666.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12666.827843750001,"end":12668.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12669.747218750003,"end":12670.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12671.40096875,"end":12673.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12673.76346875,"end":12677.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12678.066593750002,"end":12681.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12682.26846875,"end":12683.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12684.512843750003,"end":12686.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12687.094718750002,"end":12688.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12689.575343750003,"end":12691.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12692.309093750002,"end":12694.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12695.27909375,"end":12696.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12697.13534375,"end":12698.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12699.83534375,"end":12704.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12704.98221875,"end":12706.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12707.715968750003,"end":12710.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12713.520968750003,"end":12714.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12716.38971875,"end":12718.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12719.629718750002,"end":12721.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12722.49846875,"end":12723.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12725.367218750001,"end":12726.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12728.657843750003,"end":12729.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12729.855968750002,"end":12731.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12732.10034375,"end":12733.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12735.52596875,"end":12739.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12740.149718750003,"end":12742.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12743.204093750002,"end":12746.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12747.422843750002,"end":12750.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12751.30409375,"end":12753.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12754.29096875,"end":12756.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12757.429718750001,"end":12759.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12760.602218750002,"end":12761.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12762.458468750003,"end":12762.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12763.724093750003,"end":12765.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12766.79534375,"end":12768.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12769.22534375,"end":12769.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12770.54159375,"end":12771.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12772.684718750003,"end":12774.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12774.996593750002,"end":12776.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12776.59971875,"end":12777.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12777.696593750003,"end":12778.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12779.14784375,"end":12779.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12780.109718750002,"end":12781.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12782.472218750001,"end":12783.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12784.125968750002,"end":12784.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12785.13846875,"end":12786.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12788.36159375,"end":12789.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12789.610343750002,"end":12790.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12791.078468750002,"end":12794.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12795.465968750003,"end":12798.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12799.532843750003,"end":12801.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12802.199093750001,"end":12806.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12808.577843750001,"end":12808.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12809.13471875,"end":12810.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12811.24409375,"end":12812.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12813.336593750002,"end":12814.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12814.872218750003,"end":12815.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12816.188468750002,"end":12817.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12817.69034375,"end":12819.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12819.782843750003,"end":12822.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12822.938468750002,"end":12829.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12830.39721875,"end":12831.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12832.60784375,"end":12833.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12834.531593750002,"end":12836.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12837.704093750002,"end":12839.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12840.589718750001,"end":12842.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12843.05346875,"end":12845.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12847.255343750003,"end":12849.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12850.512218750002,"end":12852.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12854.258468750002,"end":12864.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12865.227218750002,"end":12869.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12869.85096875,"end":12870.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12871.99409375,"end":12874.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12876.28034375,"end":12876.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12877.59659375,"end":12878.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12878.38971875,"end":12879.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12880.313468750002,"end":12882.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12883.77284375,"end":12885.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12886.28721875,"end":12887.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12887.97471875,"end":12890.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12890.87721875,"end":12891.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12891.99096875,"end":12893.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12894.235343750002,"end":12894.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12895.31534375,"end":12895.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12896.277218750001,"end":12897.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12898.555343750002,"end":12900.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12900.833468750003,"end":12902.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12902.80784375,"end":12903.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12904.680968750003,"end":12906.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12907.532843750003,"end":12909.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12910.570343750001,"end":12911.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12913.439093750003,"end":12913.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12914.65409375,"end":12917.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12917.708468750003,"end":12918.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12919.328468750002,"end":12920.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12920.813468750002,"end":12921.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12922.04534375,"end":12923.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12923.78346875,"end":12924.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12925.032218750002,"end":12926.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12927.597218750001,"end":12930.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12931.613468750002,"end":12932.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12932.64284375,"end":12935.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12936.70971875,"end":12937.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12938.751593750003,"end":12940.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12941.097218750001,"end":12943.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12943.83096875,"end":12944.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12945.214718750001,"end":12946.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12948.35346875,"end":12949.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12951.00284375,"end":12955.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12956.48721875,"end":12963.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12964.114718750003,"end":12965.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12966.13971875,"end":12968.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12968.789093750001,"end":12972.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12973.83471875,"end":12974.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12975.539093750001,"end":12979.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12980.83784375,"end":12981.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12982.238468750002,"end":12983.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12983.63909375,"end":12985.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12985.883468750002,"end":12986.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12986.91284375,"end":12988.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12989.140343750001,"end":12990.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12992.59971875,"end":12993.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12994.72596875,"end":12995.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12995.940968750001,"end":12998.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12999.51846875,"end":13000.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13001.222843750002,"end":13002.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13003.770968750003,"end":13007.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13008.124718750001,"end":13012.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13012.782218750002,"end":13015.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13015.954718750003,"end":13016.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13017.86159375,"end":13024.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13025.25284375,"end":13027.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13028.290343750003,"end":13036.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13036.59284375,"end":13039.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13040.355968750002,"end":13041.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13041.739718750003,"end":13042.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13043.427218750003,"end":13044.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13044.895343750002,"end":13046.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13046.532218750002,"end":13048.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13049.29971875,"end":13054.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13055.45909375,"end":13061.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13062.22596875,"end":13063.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13064.993468750003,"end":13065.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13066.00596875,"end":13066.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13067.895968750003,"end":13069.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13069.313468750002,"end":13071.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13072.064093750003,"end":13074.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13075.523468750001,"end":13076.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13077.160343750002,"end":13080.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13080.67034375,"end":13081.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13082.273468750001,"end":13083.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13083.606593750003,"end":13085.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13085.766593750002,"end":13088.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13089.411593750003,"end":13093.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13095.199718750002,"end":13095.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13097.07284375,"end":13098.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13099.266593750002,"end":13100.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13101.44346875,"end":13104.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13105.61159375,"end":13107.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13107.552218750003,"end":13110.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13110.79221875,"end":13113.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13113.964718750001,"end":13116.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13118.183468750001,"end":13119.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13120.765343750001,"end":13123.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13124.07284375,"end":13130.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13130.92409375,"end":13132.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13133.910968750002,"end":13136.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13137.167843750001,"end":13138.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13138.652843750002,"end":13139.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13140.762218750002,"end":13142.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13142.820968750002,"end":13143.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13143.765968750002,"end":13145.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13146.465968750003,"end":13147.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13147.765343750001,"end":13148.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13149.250343750002,"end":13150.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13151.02221875,"end":13151.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13151.96721875,"end":13156.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13156.540343750003,"end":13158.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13158.98721875,"end":13160.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13160.742218750001,"end":13164.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13164.505343750003,"end":13165.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13165.450343750003,"end":13166.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13167.47534375,"end":13170.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13170.917843750001,"end":13171.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13174.32659375,"end":13176.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13176.38534375,"end":13179.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13191.117218750001,"end":13195.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13196.21346875,"end":13196.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13197.445343750001,"end":13200.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13200.820343750001,"end":13203.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13203.48659375,"end":13203.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13204.515968750002,"end":13209.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13209.595343750003,"end":13213.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13213.78034375,"end":13215.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13215.315968750001,"end":13218.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13220.024093750002,"end":13221.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13221.20534375,"end":13221.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13221.37409375,"end":13228.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13223.399093750002,"end":13223.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13225.84596875,"end":13226.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13228.96784375,"end":13230.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13230.722843750002,"end":13234.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13233.726593750001,"end":13233.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13234.469093750002,"end":13239.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13239.683468750001,"end":13240.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13241.337218750003,"end":13243.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13243.851593750001,"end":13246.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13247.175968750002,"end":13258.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13258.988468750002,"end":13266.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13267.493468750003,"end":13268.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13269.34971875,"end":13270.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13271.45909375,"end":13272.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13272.859718750002,"end":13275.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13276.386593750001,"end":13277.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13277.567843750003,"end":13278.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13278.95159375,"end":13280.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13280.655968750001,"end":13281.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13282.44471875,"end":13284.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13285.667843750001,"end":13285.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13286.849093750003,"end":13291.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13291.72596875,"end":13292.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13292.940968750001,"end":13293.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13294.004093750002,"end":13299.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13299.488468750002,"end":13300.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13301.04096875,"end":13302.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13303.352843750003,"end":13307.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13307.80784375,"end":13308.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13309.32659375,"end":13309.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13310.11971875,"end":13311.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13311.722843750002,"end":13314.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13314.574718750002,"end":13316.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13316.92034375,"end":13317.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13318.40534375,"end":13318.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13318.82721875,"end":13322.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13323.214718750001,"end":13324.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13324.699718750002,"end":13332.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13333.47471875,"end":13334.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13334.53784375,"end":13339.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13340.17409375,"end":13348.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13348.965968750003,"end":13354.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13354.905968750001,"end":13357.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13357.74096875,"end":13363.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13363.883468750002,"end":13367.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13367.849093750003,"end":13368.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13369.40159375,"end":13372.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13372.995968750001,"end":13379.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13379.745968750001,"end":13380.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13381.534718750001,"end":13382.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13383.67784375,"end":13385.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13386.47909375,"end":13390.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13390.96784375,"end":13394.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13394.984093750001,"end":13395.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13395.524093750002,"end":13396.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13396.469093750002,"end":13404.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13405.125968750002,"end":13408.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13408.602218750002,"end":13415.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13416.33096875,"end":13418.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13419.01409375,"end":13426.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13426.33784375,"end":13431.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13431.36659375,"end":13433.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13434.015968750002,"end":13437.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13438.234718750002,"end":13441.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13441.862843750001,"end":13447.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13447.836593750002,"end":13452.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13452.426593750002,"end":13462.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13462.349093750003,"end":13462.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13463.378468750001,"end":13464.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13465.94346875,"end":13469.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13469.453468750002,"end":13474.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13475.410343750002,"end":13477.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13478.110343750002,"end":13489.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13489.804718750001,"end":13505.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13505.751593750003,"end":13506.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13506.730343750001,"end":13507.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13508.097218750001,"end":13509.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13510.35846875,"end":13511.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13512.45096875,"end":13517.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13517.969093750002,"end":13522.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13523.672843750002,"end":13533.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13533.730343750001,"end":13534.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13535.097218750001,"end":13538.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13538.489093750002,"end":13539.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13540.058468750001,"end":13540.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13541.10471875,"end":13544.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13546.11659375,"end":13547.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13547.90534375,"end":13554.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13555.12784375,"end":13560.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13560.274718750003,"end":13561.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13562.14784375,"end":13563.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13564.544093750003,"end":13565.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13567.075343750003,"end":13567.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13567.800968750002,"end":13572.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13574.601593750001,"end":13577.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13578.837218750003,"end":13584.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13585.637843750003,"end":13586.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13586.66721875,"end":13601.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13602.64784375,"end":13603.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13604.250968750002,"end":13609.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13609.566593750002,"end":13611.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13611.878468750001,"end":13617.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13618.206593750001,"end":13618.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13618.999718750001,"end":13619.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13620.737843750001,"end":13622.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13623.032843750003,"end":13624.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13625.09159375,"end":13626.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13626.644093750001,"end":13630.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13631.470343750003,"end":13634.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13634.524718750003,"end":13635.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13636.313468750002,"end":13638.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13638.97971875,"end":13640.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13640.70096875,"end":13650.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13651.062218750001,"end":13651.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13652.445968750002,"end":13656.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13656.63096875,"end":13658.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13658.84159375,"end":13659.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13659.719093750002,"end":13662.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13662.60471875,"end":13663.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13663.634093750003,"end":13667.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13668.257843750001,"end":13670.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13670.637218750002,"end":13671.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13671.531593750002,"end":13673.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13674.09659375,"end":13675.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13675.66596875,"end":13680.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13680.914093750001,"end":13682.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13683.32721875,"end":13684.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13685.622218750003,"end":13692.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13692.692843750003,"end":13693.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13693.60409375,"end":13694.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13695.24096875,"end":13697.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13697.92409375,"end":13699.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13700.708468750003,"end":13703.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13703.864093750002,"end":13705.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13705.973468750002,"end":13712.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13712.976593750001,"end":13717.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13718.849093750003,"end":13720.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13720.671593750001,"end":13741.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13742.895968750003,"end":13744.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13747.97534375,"end":13759.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13760.985968750003,"end":13761.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13761.019718750002,"end":13761.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13763.04471875,"end":13766.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13766.74034375,"end":13769.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13769.828468750002,"end":13779.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13786.973468750002,"end":13787.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13789.757843750001,"end":13790.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13790.63534375,"end":13792.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13793.082218750002,"end":13800.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13801.047218750002,"end":13803.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13803.359093750001,"end":13806.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13807.206593750001,"end":13811.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13812.134093750003,"end":13815.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13815.914093750001,"end":13820.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13820.925968750002,"end":13821.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13821.668468750002,"end":13822.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13823.187218750001,"end":13826.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13827.08534375,"end":13830.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13830.359093750001,"end":13841.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13841.817218750002,"end":13844.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13844.36534375,"end":13865.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13865.20596875,"end":13872.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13872.985343750002,"end":13875.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13875.972218750001,"end":13876.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13877.01846875,"end":13894.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13895.15909375,"end":13897.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13897.52159375,"end":13902.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13903.42784375,"end":13903.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13904.33909375,"end":13912.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13913.19846875,"end":13921.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13921.83846875,"end":13924.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13925.348468750002,"end":13926.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13927.15409375,"end":13929.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13929.972218750001,"end":13931.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13931.74409375,"end":13934.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13934.69721875,"end":13935.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13936.064093750003,"end":13937.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13937.70096875,"end":13949.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13949.496593750002,"end":13952.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13953.73221875,"end":13957.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13958.27159375,"end":13959.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13959.570968750002,"end":13960.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13960.38096875,"end":13965.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13965.34221875,"end":13968.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13970.57346875,"end":13980.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13980.58034375,"end":13982.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13982.234093750001,"end":13985.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13985.187218750001,"end":13989.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13989.878468750001,"end":13992.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13992.96659375,"end":13996.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13996.93221875,"end":13998.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13998.41721875,"end":14000.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14000.324093750001,"end":14002.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14002.36596875,"end":14004.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14005.47096875,"end":14008.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14008.862843750001,"end":14013.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14013.55409375,"end":14015.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14016.102218750002,"end":14018.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14019.527843750002,"end":14020.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14020.97909375,"end":14023.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14023.35846875,"end":14024.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14025.180968750003,"end":14026.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14026.73346875,"end":14027.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14027.56034375,"end":14028.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14029.062218750001,"end":14032.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14032.31909375,"end":14034.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14035.37346875,"end":14038.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14038.613468750002,"end":14039.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14040.149093750002,"end":14042.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14042.91659375,"end":14048.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14048.519093750001,"end":14053.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14054.324093750001,"end":14056.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14057.10846875,"end":14061.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14062.305968750003,"end":14064.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14065.343468750001,"end":14067.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14068.313468750002,"end":14069.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14069.511593750001,"end":14071.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14071.75596875,"end":14074.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14075.87346875,"end":14076.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14076.160343750002,"end":14076.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14076.599093750003,"end":14076.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14076.683468750001,"end":14076.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14076.700343750003,"end":14076.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14077.493468750003,"end":14082.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14098.688468750002,"end":14101.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14102.19846875,"end":14108.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14108.72909375,"end":14111.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14111.378468750001,"end":14115.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14117.132843750001,"end":14117.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14117.85846875,"end":14126.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14127.39284375,"end":14131.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14131.949093750001,"end":14135.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14136.57284375,"end":14137.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14137.61909375,"end":14138.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14138.699093750001,"end":14142.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14142.95159375,"end":14146.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14146.613468750002,"end":14164.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14165.83409375,"end":14167.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14168.88846875,"end":14169.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14169.816593750002,"end":14174.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14174.22096875,"end":14178.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14179.40159375,"end":14185.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14186.472218750001,"end":14193.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14193.829718750003,"end":14196.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14197.00221875,"end":14200.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14201.37284375,"end":14202.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14203.06034375,"end":14215.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14215.750343750002,"end":14224.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14225.38596875,"end":14234.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14235.105968750002,"end":14250.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14250.74909375,"end":14261.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14262.274718750003,"end":14264.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14265.109718750002,"end":14269.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14270.239718750003,"end":14271.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14271.437843750002,"end":14276.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14277.293468750002,"end":14285.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14285.950343750003,"end":14301.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14301.812843750002,"end":14309.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14310.047843750002,"end":14317.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14317.72596875,"end":14319.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14319.76784375,"end":14323.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14327.294093750003,"end":14329.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14329.977218750002,"end":14330.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14330.145968750003,"end":14332.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14345.77221875,"end":14382.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14382.79596875,"end":14401.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14402.168468750002,"end":14432.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14432.695343750001,"end":14463.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14466.293468750002,"end":14466.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14466.31034375,"end":14467.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14467.99784375,"end":14468.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14468.352218750002,"end":14470.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14470.00596875,"end":14470.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14470.562843750002,"end":14470.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14471.609093750001,"end":14471.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14471.64284375,"end":14471.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14471.69346875,"end":14471.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14471.71034375,"end":14473.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14471.727218750002,"end":14472.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14473.60034375,"end":14474.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14474.207843750002,"end":14474.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14476.266593750002,"end":14476.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14477.12721875,"end":14481.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14481.582218750002,"end":14483.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14486.695343750001,"end":14487.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14487.77534375,"end":14487.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14488.956593750001,"end":14493.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14493.52971875,"end":14495.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14495.892218750003,"end":14496.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14496.972218750001,"end":14497.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14498.204093750002,"end":14499.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14499.53721875,"end":14508.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14508.734093750001,"end":14511.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14512.36221875,"end":14514.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14514.707843750002,"end":14516.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14516.58096875,"end":14517.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15021.008468750002,"end":15025.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15025.851593750001,"end":15029.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15031.42034375,"end":15033.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15033.58034375,"end":15036.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15037.00596875,"end":15040.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15041.258468750002,"end":15044.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15044.49846875,"end":15047.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15076.645343750002,"end":15077.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15077.55659375,"end":15078.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15079.63221875,"end":15087.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15087.95159375,"end":15089.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15089.723468750002,"end":15092.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15093.18284375,"end":15103.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15104.640968750002,"end":15125.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15125.886593750001,"end":15144.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15145.039718750002,"end":15160.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15161.35784375,"end":15189.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15189.52221875,"end":15192.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15193.31909375,"end":15194.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15195.512843750003,"end":15226.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15227.64284375,"end":15229.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15229.44846875,"end":15252.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15253.394093750001,"end":15294.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15295.98659375,"end":15311.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15312.473468750002,"end":15331.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15331.575968750003,"end":15342.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15343.590968750003,"end":15375.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15376.14284375,"end":15401.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15402.99096875,"end":15428.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15429.602843750003,"end":15437.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15437.85471875,"end":15440.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15440.301593750002,"end":15441.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15443.204093750002,"end":15444.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15444.85784375,"end":15456.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15456.29909375,"end":15467.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15467.672843750002,"end":15473.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15474.08534375,"end":15479.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15479.77221875,"end":15496.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15496.37721875,"end":15532.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15533.72159375,"end":15547.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15548.16659375,"end":15600.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15601.05284375,"end":15632.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15633.317843750003,"end":15691.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15693.004718750002,"end":15694.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15695.50221875,"end":15699.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15699.923468750003,"end":15703.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15703.99034375,"end":15706.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15706.977218750002,"end":15709.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15709.47471875,"end":15712.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15712.984718750002,"end":15716.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15716.730968750002,"end":15719.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15719.464718750001,"end":15721.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15721.692218750002,"end":15724.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15724.67909375,"end":15728.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15728.94846875,"end":15733.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15734.348468750002,"end":15734.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15737.26784375,"end":15738.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15746.81909375,"end":15746.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15746.97096875,"end":15747.03846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1893.816,"end":1908.299,"text":"我們現在開始開會今天舉行啟動國會改革立法院職權行使法相關法案公聽會我們先介紹與會者首先介紹出席學者專家按照簽到的順序介紹"},{"start":1911.062,"end":1935.305,"text":"第一位 陽明交通大學科技法律學院陳志雄院長第二位 國立陽明交通大學法律學院林志傑教授第三位 佛光大學公共事務學系彭瑞仁助理教授"},{"start":1940.859,"end":1963.095,"text":"好因為今天是這樣就是高鐵捷運他都有一段時間都停駛嘛所以有一些人他沒有辦法趕過來那待會他們會陸續到那我們今天我想說不耽誤這個時間我們就盡量我們趕快讓這個公聽會開始那再來我們介紹到場的委員 牛許廷委員"},{"start":1966.501,"end":1991.377,"text":"接著我們介紹列席的機關代表立法院副秘書長 張玉榮總統府第一局專門委員 蘇俊卿司法院行政訴訟及懲戒聽聽長 陳依儀行政院法規會主委 沈淑飛綜合業務處處長 彭少博"},{"start":1996.503,"end":2003.927,"text":"考試院保訓重規處處長 龔奎毅監察院監察調查處處長 楊昌憲監察業務處處長 王貞華關鍵審計議題發展委員會執行秘書 林聖賢"},{"start":2021.62,"end":2045.94,"text":"內政部合作及人民團體司專門委員 葉昭宏外交部條約法律司參事 蘇瑞仁國防部法律事務司法暨調查處處長 王振宜法務部檢察司司長 郭永發參事 廖江憲"},{"start":2049.366,"end":2073.272,"text":"行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處專門委員賴佳陽中央選舉委員會人事事主任楊志傑公民交易委員會法律事務處專門委員齊雪莉回家通訊傳播委員會法律事務處專門委員蔡信儀個人資料保護委員會籌備處法治事務組組長林育嘉"},{"start":2080.728,"end":2087.315,"text":"最高檢察署主任 檢察官李文忠不讓黨產處理委員會專任委員徐有為現在我們先請議事人員宣讀公聽會的討論提綱"},{"start":2099.774,"end":2121.376,"text":"討論提綱一、總統赴立法院國情報告是否應與常態化立法委員就總統國情報告有不明瞭處提出問題之模式為何其他各國案例二、立法院行使人事同意權時是否得針對人事案之審查召開聽證會並邀集各界人事協助參與審查倘被提名人受審查時"},{"start":2122.797,"end":2149.311,"text":"有虛偽不實陳述之情形是否應與裁罰立法院之備詢人若有拒絕答覆、拒不提供資料、做虛偽不實陳述、答非所問甚至無故缺席等情形如何完善立法虛偽作證或藐視國會等形式、責任等事項國會行使調查權的正當性及尚待法制化之處行使國會調查權之範圍及界限與基本人權保障如何兼顧宣讀完畢"},{"start":2157.716,"end":2159.798,"text":"主要是就這個長期的爭執以一個公聽會的方式來諮詢各界的意見"},{"start":2182.406,"end":2188.499,"text":"其實這個問題大概我覺得我自己再往前面去找一些相關的資料可能已經討論超過20年了"},{"start":2191.124,"end":2216.771,"text":"那因為這次 其實法案我們在修正上面其實沒有說一定要說召開公聽會但是我們覺得還是審慎為之所以也順應一些不同黨派大家的想法所以今天召開這個公聽會那也請各位專家各位學者在這邊能夠把自己所了解的暢所欲言的來跟大家一起分享"},{"start":2220.237,"end":2233.032,"text":"今天早上遇到地震的狀況目前只有三位委員到場接下來幾位會陸續到我們在這邊也是蠻謝謝各位在今天早上交通不便的時候還能夠到這裡來"},{"start":2236.937,"end":2237.057,"text":"主席"},{"start":2252.955,"end":2267.435,"text":"按照登記先後順序發言如果陸續到場本會會穿插請委員發言最後再請政府機關代表發言針對學者專家及委員的意見加以回覆"},{"start":2270.678,"end":2293.713,"text":"請與會者請至發言台發言在主席的右手邊這邊是專家學者跟練習機關代表的發言台那左邊是我們委員的發言台由於公聽會主要是在聽取學者專家的意見所以每一位學者專家發言的時間是8分鐘因為我們今天只有排上午所以發言時間是8分鐘那本院委員發言的時間是5分鐘"},{"start":2296.482,"end":2298.323,"text":"主席 召集委員 各位委員"},{"start":2322.941,"end":2351.822,"text":"各位先進那各位部會代表大家早安那立委職權的健全當然過往在各黨都曾經先後提出各種的修正版本那麼當然這是一個重要的議題那麼我們其實在談這些考案的時候其實有個感觸就是當初呢這個孫中山創造這個那個時候提倡五權憲法如果呢"},{"start":2352.262,"end":2370.276,"text":"沒有監察權的存在那麼我們今天對於這個國會的像是包括他的這個調查權等等其實都會有很不一樣的見解所以我們其實是必須要去把五權憲法的架構裡面呢要來的理解對立法院的權職職權先要做一個這個理解"},{"start":2376.964,"end":2392.179,"text":"民主國家 國會改革當然有它的必要性它可以健全國會的功能強化立法的監督跟立法的品質但是它其實有一個重要的重點其實是國會的自律規範"},{"start":2393.34,"end":2414.122,"text":"所以其實在先進國家裡面他們對於就是因為當你調查了一些重要的機密的這個資訊那麼這些資訊會不會被在外進一步的外洩這需要取決於國會相當的自律另外相當於是利益衝突的問題這些都是"},{"start":2414.762,"end":2423.939,"text":"在各個國家裡面所存在的 比方說在美國很知名的這個麥卡錫的這個主義各位如果去年看這個"},{"start":2424.79,"end":2445.023,"text":"澳門海默的電影就會看到當時就是為了要認為少數的人可能具有跟共產黨有一些相關的一些往來因此他就是針對科學家來開刀這是一個調查權會可能遇到的一個很典型的例子"},{"start":2446.384,"end":2458.216,"text":"在英國跟澳洲都有發生過針對新聞媒體、針對銀行業這些調查事實上當然引起民眾不同意見的差異今天所談到的國會諮詢及及時問答"},{"start":2465.503,"end":2491.022,"text":"當然就是說這是一個總統跟國會進行溝通的一種方式但是我們在我們架構底下憲法增修條文裡面它其實提到的是在每年集會的時候可以聽取總統的國情報告但是並沒有總統應該要進行國情報告的規範所以在這個情況底下如果去規定"},{"start":2492.623,"end":2515.406,"text":"就是說去要求總統必須要來進行國情諮詢而且必須要去進行質詢類似像質詢一樣的即時問答的時候在各國的其實並沒有這樣的一種先例不過真正的議題是在於說如果你在平常的時候的質詢沒有辦法達到目的的話為什麼一年一次"},{"start":2516.147,"end":2542.052,"text":"一年一次的執行到底能夠達到什麼樣的功能我想這個是這個制度裏面這個法案這個propose裏面所真正需要回答的問題接下來我想這次的重點是關於立院的調查權的問題我們當然認為立院調查權對於去提升政府的透明度跟政府的問責性這是重要的"},{"start":2544.312,"end":2569.266,"text":"但是它有一些憲法界限基於權力分立跟正當法律程序等等的要求那麼在釋字585號裡面它雖然說是一個法律的依據但是其實那個憲法的這套解釋裡面大部分的內容其實都在談的是到底這個調查權的界限範圍到底在哪裡那麼它提到說不能夠違反"},{"start":2570.908,"end":2581.338,"text":"權力分立與治和原則也不能侵害其他憲法機關的權力核心範圍以及不能對其他憲法機關的權力行使造成實質上的妨害"},{"start":2583.676,"end":2602.492,"text":"所以包括他的凡是國家獨立可以做的事情 比方說國會 比方說行政院院長他任命行政首長 這個權限如果他可以是獨立任命的 那麼他可能就會不再受到立院調查的範圍之內"},{"start":2604.153,"end":2618.282,"text":"那另外呢對於行政權特有的行政特權如果這些資訊的這種揭露可能會干預或影響行政部門有效運作的話也會有這樣的限制那如果有爭議的話"},{"start":2619.683,"end":2633.227,"text":"應該是透過雙方機關的協商或者是由司法機關來協商處理這個是都是在這號解釋裡面很明白的已經有說明的那麼另外可以調查的資訊的範圍這調查資訊範圍其實這個"},{"start":2637.829,"end":2665.378,"text":"這個585號條其實重點反而是在談的是說許多的法律已經保障可以不予揭露的資訊事實上是可以不予提供事實上它在這個條文裡面事實上是否定原初的一些爭調會裡面的一些的這個草案所以像部分草案裡面提到說因為國防外交而且還要經過立法院院長認可之外都不得拒絕"},{"start":2666.799,"end":2675.986,"text":"這個在構成要件上面可能會從這號解釋裡面看來恐怕有實質上的違反第三個接下來談的是關於虛偽陳述我想這個一些國家都有藐視法庭的這個藐視國會的規定藐視國會規定我們當然予以尊重"},{"start":2695.165,"end":2720.273,"text":"但是但是構成要件上面的部分的草案有需要去商榷的地方虛偽陳述到底他是故意還是過失那麼到底他誰來認定什麼是不實那麼我所看到的理解他應該是要經過正當法律程序而且必須是由法院來加以這樣認定"},{"start":2724.247,"end":2742.437,"text":"在釋字585號裡面,他其實說的是什麼呢?他說你要去對於調閱權等等的可以對違反協助調查義務的話在什麼呢?在科處罰款的範圍之內予以合理的強制手段所以他要求提出的手段是加以罰款"},{"start":2745.174,"end":2750.117,"text":"有提到有虛偽陳述與處罰違反明確性原則基本上這個規定是希望要求是由檢察機關來去追溯由法院來去進行懲處"},{"start":2764.624,"end":2786.47,"text":"美國國會藐視國會罪的部分草案提到是由法院直接進行行政法懷這個可能會導致等於是法院求員兼裁判恐怕並不是一個很適合的方式那最後一張其實在這個草案裡面有一個部分提到有些部分要採取記名表決"},{"start":2789.266,"end":2817.624,"text":"當然我們知道說濟民表決本身就是說在某些事項上面重大事項上面在各國的做法上有一定的例子但是這也涉及到說到底政黨的政治到底是柔性的政黨政治還是剛性的政黨政治最後就是說關於調查權的部分請參考關於司法制度的界限謝謝 以上"},{"start":2821.898,"end":2841.297,"text":"好 謝謝那我們現在先補充介紹陸續到場的委員謝龍介委員黃國昌委員羅志強委員吳思堯委員接下來我們請第二位林志傑教授發言"},{"start":2851.552,"end":2851.672,"text":"國會改革"},{"start":2868.423,"end":2870.805,"text":"林志傑 國立陽明交通大學副理事長"},{"start":2884.335,"end":2912.424,"text":"以及藐視國會罪來發表以下的意見首先第一個在立法院處理這個議案跟草案的同時我們必須要首先去看憲法上的正當性立法院一般的調查權不外乎兩種調查第一種是基於立法必要性的調查第二個是基於個案性同樣也是為了行使立法院職權包括預算的審議還有包括個案的質詢上面的一個調查"},{"start":2913.864,"end":2915.806,"text":"立法院職權行使法要處理調查權最重要的兩個核心"},{"start":2927.213,"end":2952.654,"text":"簡單來講,立法院的職權行使法如果要擴大必須要恪守於憲法的權力分類不得僭越或者是侵害到監察院或者是行政特權的前線和先序名第二個,如果我們按照大法官曾經多次關於立法院的調查權來做的解釋我們可以看釋字585號的解釋他說,調查權行使的方式並不以要求有關機關"},{"start":2953.655,"end":2974.741,"text":"就立法院行使職權所涉及事項提供參考資料違憲必要時可以經過院會決議要求調查相關事項的人民或政府人員陳述證言或表示意見在違反協助調查義務時可以在科處罰還的範圍內給予合理的一個手段"},{"start":2977.902,"end":2988.094,"text":"所以簡單講大法官有講所謂的調查權並不限於只有調閱文件你是可以請政府人員還有一般的民眾來陳述意見所以他有講這是允許的但是他說"},{"start":2994.5,"end":3001.783,"text":"這個內容必須要符合正當的法律程序而且對於違反義務的人只能在罰還的範圍內來對他做一個合理的強制所以必須是在罰還的範圍內也就是行政裁罰而且跟金錢有關"},{"start":3014.327,"end":3035.596,"text":"如果按照大法官釋字585號解釋顯然今天我們可以看到藐視國會罪的正當性我們是要打上一個問號的因為它是一個入罪化的規範試想今天一個有犯罪嫌疑的被告他可能是殺人犯的被告發人犯的犯罪嫌疑人我們傳喚他不來"},{"start":3037.697,"end":3056.239,"text":"都不會直接就認為他藐視司法那請問今天沒有犯罪嫌疑的一般人民那麼如何的因為你傳喚他不來你就直接認為可以把他扣上藐視國會罪的一個罪嫌"},{"start":3056.98,"end":3078.735,"text":"同理即使今天是證人他在司法程序中由於有作證的義務他不來我們也可以命拘提再不來可以刻以罰還但是這些都要符合刑事訴訟強制處分的原理原則跟比例原則如果今天到了國會中"},{"start":3079.435,"end":3101.669,"text":"他並不是有協助調查犯罪嫌疑的證人只是因為你希望他來接受詢問他不出席或者是他拒絕講話立刻就要被刻意藐視國會罪顯然這跟我們一般的正當法律程序以及人民的人身自由是有非常大的影響的"},{"start":3102.629,"end":3124.482,"text":"其次如果我們撇掉藐視國會罪直接可以行政罰還可不可以呢按照大法官釋字585號解釋看起來應該是可以的但這個也必須注意他是經由院會的決議目前各版本的草案中多數下放給委員會這個跟585號的解釋顯有不合跟不當的擴張"},{"start":3130.706,"end":3159.986,"text":"更有草案提到要由行政法院科處罰還真是滑天下之大吉請問行政法院如何科處你罰還?行政法院所做的是今天政府對人民處分中是不是有違反法定程序的一個處罰而不是像一般的行事法院科處罰金的概念此處有法律概念的措置一定要導正視聽不容混淆"},{"start":3160.646,"end":3175.835,"text":"最後我們要提到的是這一次的多個草案裡面並不只有自然人大法官釋憲中585他有提到人民然而事實上這一次的草案中包括機關學校醫院"},{"start":3176.275,"end":3190.121,"text":"人民團體基金會企業公司法人這一點要請全國民眾一定要予以注意所以如果這樣的草案通過意思就是立法院可以要求台積電"},{"start":3191.842,"end":3208.238,"text":"張忠謀董事長來接受質詢﹖如果張董事長不來﹖可以對張董事長移送科與藐視國會罪﹖可以要求台積電出示他跟其他國家或企業的企業合作﹖"},{"start":3209.329,"end":3228.015,"text":"或者是技術交流的合約書這種高度涉及半導體的營業秘密甚至企業發展的營業資訊如果今天這樣子的草案通過不但是擾民對我們科技業的發展也會有嚴重的影響"},{"start":3228.855,"end":3251.041,"text":"所以總之並不是不能有國會的調查權我們作為法律學者也興建國會調查權能夠加以法制化但是綜合上開幾點避免我們的立法變成憲法盲或人權盲的提案首先第一 這個違反的效果絕技不能夠用"},{"start":3252.902,"end":3270.301,"text":"藐視國會罪,因為這個跟大法官585號的解釋一紙不合第二個範圍上除了行政官員要擴及一般人民必須要恪守正當法律程序要給予企業、財團、法人或者是基金會、人民團體、政黨"},{"start":3272.203,"end":3290.654,"text":"這個有沒有欲越大法官所授權的權限我們必須要從長計議最後要講的是沒有錯美國是有藐視國會罪的但是美國所有接受詢問的人本身就是證人的身份我國的被告尚且可以保持緘默"},{"start":3291.494,"end":3306.352,"text":"我們的被告可以說謊但是在這個藐視國會罪的構成要件草案中連保持緘默跟說謊的權利都沒有嚴重抵觸人民的基本權利不得不查最後要講的是"},{"start":3307.455,"end":3319.139,"text":"一個國會要受到尊重必須要先從自律開始要替別人的鬍子請先替好自己的鬍子立法院的行為法對於違反倫理規範的立法委員處罰非常的軟性美國的參眾議員對於國會議員甚至有可以道歉"},{"start":3328.442,"end":3353.512,"text":"停權驅逐出國會這樣嚴厲的處罰並成立倫理規範辦公室受理所有國會議員的不當行為如果今天我們希望國會受到尊重也許我們應該先從藐視司法罪先開始其次國會必須要先從自己的行為規範來才會讓贏得社會大眾對於我們立法院的尊重以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝那下一位"},{"start":3359.571,"end":3362.696,"text":"接下來我們請黃國昌委員先發言"},{"start":3399.705,"end":3419.726,"text":"謝謝主席非常感謝今天非常多的專家學者到我們的司法法制委員會針對國會改革的法案提出高見我相信各位學者所提供的高見都可以成為我們接下來在審理相關議案的時候重要的參考"},{"start":3420.827,"end":3441.252,"text":"事實上關於國會改革這也不是立法院第一次召開公聽會我們大概回顧過去這十幾年在立法院針對國會改革的倡議從來沒有停止過但是始終沒有完成最核心的部分"},{"start":3442.432,"end":3457.049,"text":"我所尊敬的眾議院曲海源老師他在2011年11月的時候其實曾經送給當時的蔡英文主席一本《國會及電視媒體改革建議案》"},{"start":3458.38,"end":3478.942,"text":"邱老師在長期推動整個國會改革的過程當中他也針對綠營的台灣智庫當初在2011年12月的時候所發表的終結亂象國會改革政策白皮書提出非常多的建言"},{"start":3480.483,"end":3499.12,"text":"這個白皮書可以說是集當時綠營重要在關心國會改革的學者包括林哲水包括當時也在參與立法委員選舉的林佳龍他們所共同提出的一個版本"},{"start":3500.02,"end":3523.039,"text":"在這個漫長的整個國會改革的過程當中事實上早期大法官會議的解釋是相對保守的譬如說在4至3月5日之後就有關於限制國會的調查權限於文件的調閱那個時候林卓水先生他就非常一針見血的指出"},{"start":3524.14,"end":3541.048,"text":"建立聽證調查制度的必要性建立聽證調查制度的必要性那為什麼這件事情重要呢因為文件調閱權的行使只能看不能問成效顯然非常的不彰"},{"start":3542.268,"end":3559.376,"text":"我們在看國外不同的中央政府體制從美國的總統制到英國的內閣制到法國的雙首長制德國在中央政府體制上面不同的學者有不同的歸類"},{"start":3560.436,"end":3581.662,"text":"但是這一些民主先進國家國會的調查權沒有一個國家的調查權像我們過去對我們國會的調查權如此的限縮按照過去非常多綠營的學者以及政治人物的批判這個是過去威權、獨裁"},{"start":3584.13,"end":3599.282,"text":"的幽靈繼續盤旋在我國立法院的上空這是為什麼過去1月10年來這麼多的有事之事包括我們所知道的民進黨的理論大師林佐水"},{"start":3600.219,"end":3619.973,"text":"包括耶魯大學政治學的博士林佳龍現在是我們總統府的秘書長提出過這個具體的主張他們當初是怎麼說的呢他們當初說的是競速訂定有關行使調查聽證的專章落實憲法所賦予國會的調查權"},{"start":3625.077,"end":3646.446,"text":"而國會調查的事由包括了行政的監督包括了立法的準備包括了政策的形成包括了政府種種的彈劾以及行使人事同意權而立法院職權行使法應該賦予調查委員會一定的職權例如召開聽證會"},{"start":3648.047,"end":3658.273,"text":"例如調閱文件例如傳喚證人例如處罰偽證這些都是集過去十幾年"},{"start":3659.794,"end":3680.05,"text":"這麼多有識之士要驅逐在台灣國會上面威權的幽靈要束縛台灣的國會根本不要監督不要行使調查權只要負責出來洗地負責出來護航就可以了這些歷史的文件"},{"start":3681.993,"end":3702.786,"text":"這一些一針見血的論述讓人非常遺憾的是在2016年的時候蔡英文自己提出要建立國會聽證調查的制度到2024年的今天本院還在討論這個問題整整跳票了8年整整跳票了8年"},{"start":3705.165,"end":3724.779,"text":"更重要的事情是提升人事同意權審查制度的品質我們還要再繼續拖下去嗎我們來複習一下當初民進黨在野的時候痛批馬政府對大法官的提名跟審查根本就是什麼"},{"start":3725.84,"end":3746.596,"text":"負責出來護航的把立法院當立法局那個時候所痛批的大法官審查的期日從公佈到投票日數21天那個時候還有民間監督大法官聯盟所有的學者所有的NGO一起出來痛批結果呢"},{"start":3748.979,"end":3776.954,"text":"掌握權力以後的民主進步黨一樣把大法官的審查當兒戲就在2023年大法官提名審查的時候從公佈到投票日數22天有沒有進步有進步多了一天但是看在過去參與這麼多民間監督大法官聯盟的團體"},{"start":3778.479,"end":3784.945,"text":"跟學者眼中這是一個不及格的大法官的審查我們還要放任淪為兒戲把立法院當成立法局這樣的大法官制度的審查嗎也正是因為這個樣子這一次我們所提出來的法案從國會聽證調查制度的建立"},{"start":3807.13,"end":3833.681,"text":"到強化人事同意權的審查是我們從一開始的時候我們就堅持的主軸我們所提出來的議案一點都不新奇一點也不創新是過去這十幾年來從民進黨在野的時候還有理想性的時候還知道國會不能被閹割的時候早就提出來的倡議法案"},{"start":3835.939,"end":3857.436,"text":"2012年的時候林佳龍就提了林佳龍就提了當初林佳龍提的時候多少的學者出來站下多少的學者認為國會改革勢在必行結果過了12年原地踏步一事無成蔡英文改革的承諾跳票我們今天"},{"start":3860.017,"end":3880.551,"text":"在這邊審理有關於國會改革的議案我們必須要對歷史負責對台灣的民主負責絕對不能夠因為換了政黨執政換了位置就換了腦袋因為我們要負責任的是對全體的國民是對我們的下一代謝謝"},{"start":3906.361,"end":3913.104,"text":"主席各位委員還有在場各位代表以及學術先進"},{"start":3917.816,"end":3943.07,"text":"其實我們都知道這個民主國家最重要當然權力分立法治國原則這是最基本的那在權力分立之下如何監督行政權必然國會應該有他的調查權才能探尋事實監督行政機關的施政相關政策上的措施或是是否能發掘行政機關在施政上的弊案那這是很基本的權力分立的原則"},{"start":3944.031,"end":3964.543,"text":"但是在權力分立原則之上我們也要了解到還有一個叫做法治國的原則如何透過法治才能讓這些程序能夠順暢依法的運作那我想在座各位先進當然各位機關代表還有各位委員必然也曾經對各國的制度有很多深入的了解跟研究"},{"start":3965.744,"end":3980.963,"text":"陳茹 陳院長 林智傑老師對於目前國內及國外相關制度的明顯說明我想我在這邊也提出一些呼應其實我本身是留學德國所以我在這邊提出一些德國相關的狀況"},{"start":3983.166,"end":3986.308,"text":"Bundestag schafftordnung"},{"start":4004.88,"end":4029.809,"text":"通過議會制定的規則在他的100條到106條制定不同的質詢類型對於議會的質詢行政機關的官員當然我們知道內閣的官員很多也是議員但是不論他是不是議員只要是內閣的官員都必須依法回答議員的質詢而且不能說謊當然他必須據實以告那如何去防止"},{"start":4030.529,"end":4051.548,"text":"官員會說謊甚至官員不願意按照事實回答呢在德國的法治國原則之下必然一定要法律規範那如何法律規範那當然必須由專法來規定德國的國會也就是聯邦眾議院可以設立調查委員會那是國會自己"},{"start":4052.833,"end":4073.439,"text":"設議嗎當然不是是透過專法來規定由調查委員會職權行使法來規定調查委員會的運作那調查委員會的職權行使法當中很明顯的規定官員如果在質詢的時候不說實話怎麼辦當然官員有沒有責任有但這個責任是不是藐視國會罪"},{"start":4077.638,"end":4103.535,"text":"這裡問題點就在這不叫藐視國會罪因為德國的刑法當中沒有藐視國會罪那如何去要求這些官員不要藐視國會據實以告呢這個時候調查委員會可以針對這些不據實以告的人員第一個處以行政法一萬歐元第二個可以經由刑事程序拘留"},{"start":4104.861,"end":4129.339,"text":"但特別要強調的是他是透過《刑事訴訟法》的程序對於說謊作偽證不說據實以告的人員處以拘留拘留的時間不得超過一日而拘留之後他必須送往法院由法官進行下一步的審理由法院才能決定他的行為是不是真的有說謊不實"},{"start":4130.7,"end":4158.168,"text":"而符合刑法上的構成要件也就是德國刑法153條對於他必須宣誓講實話的人員他沒有說到實話因此他有刑事上訴罪的可能但這邊特別強調這些都是刑法上的規定但並不是由國會自行發動你有藐視國會的嫌疑但如果我們看到德國的制度難道說我們就不能夠在國內也可以引進相關的制度嗎"},{"start":4159.048,"end":4164.191,"text":"在國內作為一個學術界上面提出的建言來講當然我們要參考德國的制度我只是針對從一個學者角度發言應該沒有重量度到這種程度但是也是請大家作為一個參考"},{"start":4187.825,"end":4216.801,"text":"因為德國的體制其實是我國專家學者常常會提出來也甚至政府機關也做過很多的研究其實立法院跟政府機關都做過很多類似的研究但是我們要了解德國的體制前必須了解德國它基本上它任何的行為都必須要有法律的依據因此剛才針對藐視國會罪事實上是不存在的但我們如何去苛責行政機關這種事後苛責的這樣的機制那必然是在於它的法律也就是刑法而且必須透過刑事訴訟法的程序"},{"start":4218.043,"end":4218.303,"text":"國內如果要"},{"start":4229.997,"end":4258.71,"text":"引進相關的制度確保行政官員在國會議員質詢的時候能夠說出實話那必然還是要第一個竹飛利專法制定國會的調查委員會的職權行使法如同德國體制第二個修正刑法上的相關條文確定有藐視國會罪第三個任何相關形式上的訴追還是要回復到形式訴訟的程序因為"},{"start":4259.93,"end":4280.779,"text":"如同一開始所講的民主的原則第一個就是三權分立三權分立之下立法是監督行政因此立法他們的目的在監督行政發掘事實確保民意可以透過法律落實但立法不是司法司法還是必須回歸司法因此是否藐視國會是否對國會議員說謊不實"},{"start":4284.36,"end":4284.52,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4303.637,"end":4322.536,"text":"國會議員能夠確實的質詢行政官員並且要求行政官員在面對民意的時候必須回答實話而不能夠任何推諉色澤之嫌那面對這樣子的法律上的要求自然而然我想有法律的依據就不會有後續的爭議"},{"start":4326.381,"end":4351.77,"text":"在德國的國會是不是有政黨提出應該要納入如同美國的藐視國會罪有的我想在德國有幾個重要的政黨除了我們知道的幾個大黨之外德國還有一個大家都知道比較具有排外性質的叫做另類選擇黨這個政黨也曾經在2023年的時候提出藐視國會罪希望能夠納入到刑法當中那相關議案"},{"start":4352.944,"end":4353.825,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":4373.118,"end":4373.899,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":4392.679,"end":4411.377,"text":"立法機關來決定你是否藐視國會還是應該要由司法機關或是法院來決定是否藐視國會最終回歸到法律的機制依法而行才能夠真正落實我們所講的三權分立的原則而同時在拘束"},{"start":4412.278,"end":4412.298,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":4436.639,"end":4436.859,"text":"劉許廷委員"},{"start":4451.533,"end":4472.234,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們今天在討論這個完善國會的調查制度這個原因當然很簡單我們今天想從責任政治的角度來探討這樣的事情什麼叫責任政治責任政治包含法律責任跟政治責任法律責任指施政違法的時候接受法律制裁負起法律上應付之責任"},{"start":4472.995,"end":4494.226,"text":"而政治責任則表示政府官員因違反民意決策錯誤成效不彰等等失去人民信任造成人民不滿即便沒有違法但也要負起相關的責任嚴重的話必須要辭職下台按照現行的憲法架構來看法律責任中司法機關追究刑事責任監察機關追究行政責任而這個政治責任"},{"start":4495.427,"end":4523.391,"text":"往往是透過民意代表在議事堂上的問政質詢點出缺失然後希望透過這樣的方式來實現責任政治的精神但很遺憾的是政治的實務上這個概念真的有被落實嗎我們現行的機制真的有辦法讓行政的官員負起所謂的政治責任嗎我想這是所有社會大眾應該要共同思考的重要問題那麼立法委員受選民的託付要有權力要監督政府"},{"start":4524.315,"end":4552.716,"text":"但問政品質的好壞 取決於立委的專業程度 了解程度但議題的種類繁多 我們也不見得是每一個議題領域的專家按照現行立法院職權行使法 有所謂的調閱制度但顯然強度 跟量能是不夠的也不見得能夠確保資料的正確性 可靠性 跟完整性因此本次國會改革 最重要的是完善立法調查權以及相關聽證制度藉由制度法制化的過程"},{"start":4554.197,"end":4575.532,"text":"讓立法委員的聽證調查程序明文規定透過調查搭配聽證的執行讓相關人士在公開而且正式的場合就已知去做清楚的陳述並且俯以資料的呈現就立法委員關心的問題加以說明這樣子相關事項可以清楚對焦可以釐清問題的爭點"},{"start":4577.293,"end":4593.084,"text":"另外要透過處罰等等強制性的手段使相關人員的出席啊陳述的真實性資料提供的正確性有一定的擔保讓調查的結果有可靠性有權威性也讓立法委員可以根據這一些的資料"},{"start":4594.626,"end":4618.279,"text":"提出質詢 或作為立法背景資料 強化立法的品質 問政的品質並且更有力量要求政府官員為錯誤的責任 負起政治責任這是他的正當性那麼我必須要再次補充 為什麼我們必須要有強制手段很多人講說按照現行的機制不就好了嗎我只能說 自律不成 只能他律了嘛"},{"start":4619.019,"end":4635.39,"text":"如果行政官員有為有守願意尊重國會有的時候願意主動擔起政治責任也許今天國會改革國會這些聽證調查的制度要入法它的迫切性可能不會這麼高但是我們現行的這些行政官員動輒迴避問題"},{"start":4637.992,"end":4662.493,"text":"更有甚者反質詢甚至侮辱國會議員在這樣子的一個場合之下顯然責任政治根本沒有任何自律的可能性所以我們當然有必要透過法制化的角度來強化國會問政的炮火去落實這樣子的精神剛剛我們公聽會竟然有教授講說我們要確保這些人說謊的權利這樣子的說法真的能夠被社會大眾所接受嗎"},{"start":4663.214,"end":4691.829,"text":"也許法律有法律的學理概念可是我們今天在這立法院的殿堂就是要平衡民意跟法律的專業對不對講說確保這些人連說謊的權利都沒有這樣子的言論恐怕很有爭議吧本席認為完善國會調查權跟建立聽證制度它不只不可或缺而且刻不容緩真的不是黨派鬥爭的戰爭工具因為這些法律入法之後不管誰執政誰在野"},{"start":4692.549,"end":4708.95,"text":"都可以按照法律的規定去強化國會的問政品質啊這個也絕對不是立法院的專善擴權我們今天不就在這裡開公聽會嗎我們馬上不就是要進入法條的討論跟審查嗎是立法院不應該忘記人民賦予我們監督政府的神聖使命"},{"start":4709.551,"end":4736.292,"text":"我們不能再繼續變成行政院下面的立法局更不能成為執政者的橡皮圖章這些都是民進黨曾經在野的時候都講過的論點所以這些事情不應該因為政黨的輪替而變成主客意味反而在這樣子的時候大家應該捐氣成見立刻的討論立刻的通過品質的好壞第一透過討論的方式來處理第二透過修法之後的實際執行滾動式的檢討"},{"start":4738.234,"end":4741.616,"text":"我們現在補充介紹到場的學者專家國立雲林科技大學科技法律研究所吳威志教授"},{"start":4768.73,"end":4776.953,"text":"那待會主席這邊會發言那由我這邊發言完畢之後就請吳教授進行發言好現在有請吳宗憲委員發言"},{"start":4809.389,"end":4833.251,"text":"我今天先肯定一下行政院今天的報告因為今天報告沒有再拿585號來牛頭不對馬嘴了因為相關昨天昨天本人前天吧本人在這邊的時候曾經就行政院拿585號來做這樣的對我的提案做這樣的"},{"start":4835.356,"end":4863.072,"text":"公職：不要說公職說明好了那我個人是始終是不認同因為不一樣的東西不能拿來隨便用這是第一個第二個大法官他在認定是否違憲的時候他其實有講到許多他的前提要件但是行政官員不應該直接跳結論不應該說大法官認為這個違憲因為大法官認為這個違憲之前他有一些前提要件必須符合所以不是你這個行為就叫做違憲那"},{"start":4864.893,"end":4893.464,"text":"行政機關的官員絕對不應該去主動去帶風向去騙人民所以我昨天一直在講一直在講這個部分就是政府不應該拿錯誤的資訊來誤導人民這個是不應該的這完完全全不應該那長期以來我們的政府是拿很多不同的數據來欺騙人民來美化一些大眾對於施政的感覺那這都不是一個負責任的政府該做的事情"},{"start":4894.584,"end":4908.156,"text":"我還是很深信民進黨的創黨精神青蓮情振愛鄉土我非常認同這個創黨精神那我希望現在能夠繼續這樣堅持下去那有關這次國會改革的部分"},{"start":4913.861,"end":4930.796,"text":"有關這次國會改革的部分那我想說我來簡單提一下其實我禮拜一的時候也一直講一個東西在座非常多公法學者我們都知道一件事情憲法是國家的根本大法絕對不可能變來變去"},{"start":4932.738,"end":4961.704,"text":"我想在座有律師有學者大家都能夠認同這個所以在我這個很直很笨的法律人的腦子裡面憲法其實是不會這樣亂變來變去的否則不叫做根本大法那我們來看一下在2015年的時候蔡英文自己在臉書的主張這是我自己的臉書寫的我寫報告蔡總統我正努力達成您當年國會改革的理想"},{"start":4963.204,"end":4987.849,"text":"我現在正努力在達成蔡英文當年國會改革的理想我現在就在做這件事我們看一下蔡英文在2015年她就主張要國會改革她就希望建立起聽證跟調查制度要強化監督的能量那個時候為什麼沒有群起說違憲違憲違憲我們要申請四字我們要幹什麼當時都沒有這樣做所以到今天我覺得我一直在說一個"},{"start":4988.889,"end":5016.069,"text":"當年跟今天唯一不一樣的就只有一個因子的差異就是執政與否所以我覺得對於事情不能這樣看我們再來看一下其實這段時間不管是顧立雄委員李俊毅委員其實都非常的清楚要求要有調查權的存在甚至要有相關的處罰那這些人現在也都在位而且都是位居高位像一位在監察院的秘書長一位是"},{"start":5016.829,"end":5041.361,"text":"國安局秘書長甚至現在的總統府秘書長就是前立法委員林佳龍他還要求要有刑罰剛剛有幾位學者痛罵說這個刑罰的部分當然我的版本是沒有刑罰我先跟各位報告我的版本是沒有刑罰的剛剛還有學者還痛罵說這怎麼有刑罰當然我們再回過頭去看其實"},{"start":5042.561,"end":5044.705,"text":"律師長當年他也是提有一個刑法的這個建議"},{"start":5048.703,"end":5075.929,"text":"所以我在想 很多事情我們是可以理性的來討論那再回過頭去看其實啊 那個剛林志傑教授有提到美國的國會當然林志傑教授講得非常的正確那他們是三權分立國家我們是五權分立國家本來就是都不能這個套用但是我倒不覺得說國會這樣做會有一些老民的問題你們去看一下三權分立國家的美國其他的國會的力道更強悍"},{"start":5077.509,"end":5105.908,"text":"非常非常的強悍甚至他國會自己就下決定那這一次我們的做法其實比較是說不管有刑責或行政法我們都是交由司法去處理或交由監察院去處理我的版本並不是由國會自己就處理而是交給他們去處理這是要為了保障正當的法律程序以及保障救濟的權利這是我對於法律的堅持啦最後我簡單的說一下我是認為說"},{"start":5107.329,"end":5108.669,"text":"立法院的權力也不能無限擴張所以我們會有一些限制的存在"},{"start":5133.815,"end":5158.142,"text":"提供被處分官員的程序保障涉嫌到有相關法律責任的時候就是交由司法機關或監察機關來處理絕對不是立法委員說了算這個我很堅持絕對不是立法委員說了算在這邊就跟各位報告到這邊如果什麼問題我在下午提案的時候我會再詳細說明 謝謝"},{"start":5173.151,"end":5173.331,"text":"吳教授"},{"start":5205.362,"end":5228.897,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位主管 大家好現在由我針對立法院職權行使法相關法案的公聽會進行發言第一個部分尤其針對於總統赴立法院國情報告是否常態化的這個部分我們看到了相關國外的資料美國總統也有國情的諮問制度"},{"start":5232.759,"end":5259.219,"text":"法國其實在2008年7月有修改了第五共和的憲法所以我國需要加以來落實那麼看到條文裡面是由德來做聽取總統的國情報告權所以現以每年集會的時候顯然美國的慣例他是採用每年第一會期時候的集會立法院有斟酌邀請的裁量權"},{"start":5260.14,"end":5275.395,"text":"而且總統既已對人民負責是不得拒絕的那第三個是國情報告的內容事實上是限於國家安全大政的方針這是針對尊重總統的形式上儀式上的職權"},{"start":5277.062,"end":5293.972,"text":"而且是要與通案 並不是以個案來作為他的一個發言的內容但是立法院基於他是一個憲政的監督機關 所以他在邀請的時候其實就可以附上很多相關重要的政策議案 請求總統在發言的內容裡面附上"},{"start":5298.632,"end":5304.473,"text":"立法院對於總統發言國情諮詢的案文是不得諮詢的也不可以與總統進行辯論避免形式上另類的行政監督原則上除非是憲法上重要職權國家當政臨時的重要事件不然一年以一次違憲"},{"start":5323.497,"end":5343.085,"text":"至於我們看到很多立法委員提案的版本裏面 有是否現場來回答基本上在各國的慣例裏面 總統是現場回答 而且是綜合來答覆但是如果總統未以及時答覆的話 也不得在座進行第二次的質詢"},{"start":5344.788,"end":5351.012,"text":"依照法國的一個慣例總統離開後國會議員是可以針對所詢的問題在座討論跟辯論如果有相關與行政的部分的話會委請行政院尤其是行政院院長提供相關的資料第7個總統其實也可以提出相關的主要的請求請求到國會來做質問"},{"start":5372.062,"end":5391.808,"text":"那麼依照職權主要它是針對緊急命令的狀況需要獲得立法院的追認當然它就有必要來做相關的一個知情立法院雖然有否決職權但是依照憲法分權的原理這樣的請求是以不否決為矣"},{"start":5393.376,"end":5412.273,"text":"那麼立法院也看到很多的版本是以相關國家安全重要方針為限所以這個部分是非常合適但是唯獨如果牽涉到具體的個案的話無論是立法院或者是總統任何一方的發動任何一方也都可以拒絕"},{"start":5413.534,"end":5429.701,"text":"第9個部分是我個人的看法因為總統的職權在憲法其實有很多都是實質實體上的規範但是這些實體上的規範有一些是形式的有一些是實質的所以建議立法院"},{"start":5430.481,"end":5444.26,"text":"以制定一部總統職權行使法以進一步釐清憲法所定總統各職權行使的方式那這個部分就變成了一部是實體法一部份是程序法"},{"start":5445.202,"end":5470.108,"text":"好接下來針對第二個部分也就是說人事同意權是否召開聽證會以及協助參與審查的有不實陳述的情形如何裁法我們看到了到憲法規範的很多包含國家的主要的人員的同意權那這個部分其實也包含法院組織法裡面的最高法院檢查總長的人選"},{"start":5472.088,"end":5494.422,"text":"但是我個人反而認為最重要應該是討論大法官4日613號解釋隸屬於行政院之下的獨立機關雖然他是說主委跟委員任命由行政院獨攬但是即使如此也可以允許立法院修法讓委員依照政黨比例產生不然的話他就脫離了獨立機關可言了"},{"start":5498.664,"end":5507.271,"text":"所以這個部分其實上是立法院未來可以去思考的一個部分第三個部分因為我國並未針對個別的閣員有罷免的一個方式所以委員在提案1101701號的部分針對職權行使法第17條就算草案"},{"start":5519.56,"end":5521.402,"text":"其實如果新任的部長是不是可以來做人事的聽證其實我個人是認為是可以的為什麼因為總是進行先行的質詢先行的質詢是有立法的必要"},{"start":5537.11,"end":5537.49,"text":"全院委員會 全院委員會 全院委員會"},{"start":5561.313,"end":5578.448,"text":"提案人的審查應該可以分為兩階段因為它包含了刑事資格階段立法院仍然有權力來針對他的資格來做審查所以如果有虛偽造假全院委員會在此時應該要將此案退回"},{"start":5579.289,"end":5579.429,"text":"實質答覆：隱匿資料：虛偽陳述"},{"start":5598.067,"end":5601.389,"text":"那麼 那就可以跟藐視國會就一併來裁罰那至於很多的提案裡面我看到了這個不得地2個月的審查期但是並沒有最長的期限因為事實上我個人認為除非擱置各案或者是全案擱置應該要有一個最低1個月最長3個月的審查期限才能夠避免過於冗長影響的憲政機關的運作"},{"start":5624.944,"end":5643.129,"text":"第7個 剛才主席以委員的身份特別講到了大法官司的585號的解釋此時我也個人認為被提名者仍然有協助調查的義務仍然還是符合大法官解釋的範圍"},{"start":5644.289,"end":5645.35,"text":"虛偽不實﹑處罰﹑藐視國會罪虛偽不實﹑其實質面不確定較難認定實務上只要拒絕出席國會的聽證調查事實上是比較明確的"},{"start":5665.168,"end":5665.308,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5685.467,"end":5686.248,"text":"謝謝吳教授那我們接下來請翁曉琳委員發言"},{"start":5724.588,"end":5752.005,"text":"主席：各位委員：各位先進：還有各位觀眾朋友們大家好這次由我還有由本席還有其他的委員共同所提出的針對國會改革的法案我想很重要的目的是因為我們在這些年來我們看到其實立法權的職權無法伸張"},{"start":5753.618,"end":5777.29,"text":"立法院的重要的職權是在立法、審查預算還有監督政府的施政那麼要能夠真正的好好的去落實、去實踐這些權利它必須有個重要的前提就是立法委員需要有足夠完整的政府資訊才能夠做出適當的監督以及判斷"},{"start":5778.666,"end":5805.737,"text":"但是我們知道目前就立法委員們首從上述能夠擁有的這個工具大概就只有執行權還有文件調閱權那麼在過去這些年裡面我們看到其實透過執行權和文件調閱權是有辦法能夠向政府機關取得最真實最正確最完整的資訊嗎"},{"start":5807.461,"end":5829.415,"text":"事實上並沒有在我進入立法院之後我也有發現其實來立法院接受質詢的政府官員們或者是我們可能會向政府機關請求調閱一些文件資訊可是"},{"start":5831.502,"end":5859.748,"text":"常常都是實問虛答或是提供一些不完整不正確的訊息那麼這個對於立法委員想要好好的去監督政府施政我覺得是有困難度的所謂公欲善其事必先利其器沒有足夠好的監督政府的工具手段是很難指導問題的核心我們沒有辦法無從判斷"},{"start":5861.277,"end":5883.61,"text":"到底政府機關所提供的這個相關的行政資訊是否正確尤其是在針對要去了解一些弊案或是行政措施的這個疏失的時候基本上我目前的工具是不足的也因為如此這次為什麼要提出強化這個國會監督的力量"},{"start":5885.497,"end":5891.406,"text":"我們沒有足夠的工具我們就沒有辦法好好的去行使我們立法委員的職權"},{"start":5894.266,"end":5917.805,"text":"那麼立法院職權行使法最近一次的修法是在107年在過去這些年間雖然陸陸續續大概每隔大概五六年六七年都會有一次修法但是呢其實都沒有修到真正的核心我必須說臺灣的政治環境在改變立法權和行政權的互動的制衡關係也在改變"},{"start":5918.866,"end":5943.773,"text":"我們講我們中華民國憲法是五權分立可是現在看起來這個五權分這個是相互制衡是相互平等嗎還是已經偏向嚴重的這個向行政權這個傾倒那麼整個行政跟立法的這個相互制衡的關係是已經出現了很大的這個偏離那麼所以在這裡"},{"start":5945.029,"end":5964.81,"text":"我們也發現在過去我們希望行政作為跟行政諮詢是必須要透明公開的那行政官員必須要尊重立法委員的職權並且接受民意代表的監督但是這些年我們看到這些要求事實上都沒有辦法做到而且"},{"start":5967.632,"end":5981.566,"text":"行政機關的總統作為已經偏離了憲法的原理那在這樣的情況之下我們怎麼能夠不去強化國會的監督力量呢否則立法委員只是狗肺火車行政機關根本就毫不"},{"start":5981.766,"end":5982.406,"text":"國會平權 國會與行政機關的平權"},{"start":6003.622,"end":6009.949,"text":"強化我們現在立法院有不足的功能不管是國會聽證權、藐視國會的處罰以及我們要求總統每年必須要來立法院進行國情報告等等這些都是有助於我們未來"},{"start":6021.061,"end":6021.481,"text":"吳思瑤委員發言"},{"start":6061.974,"end":6078.77,"text":"謝謝主席首先感謝主席今天安排的公聽會但也因為今天早上的地震那非常多我們邀請的學者專家可能出席的人數可能連一半都不到所以因應這個特殊的狀況也回應本席一再的呼籲這麼嚴肅的"},{"start":6080.932,"end":6106.446,"text":"國會改革的議案我們需要更擴大專業界的意見參詢要更擴大社會公民團體的參與我再一次呼籲那在公聽會的部分是應當再著雨增加不宜直接在沒有完整的社會共識之前就進行法案的逐條的審議我再次重申我的理由那也因為今天上午發生的這個地震的事項"},{"start":6107.586,"end":6107.626,"text":"4月3日"},{"start":6122.791,"end":6138.324,"text":"但是今天在討論國會改革的議案好像大家坐上了時光機回到了2016甚至2012或是更早之前的時空環境因為非常多的在野黨委員一再的提到歷史的文件"},{"start":6139.125,"end":6164.05,"text":"提到民主進步黨過去在2016的版本甚至2012的版本甚至又提到在林卓水委員擔任立委的時期她的是1992到2007那個時間是更又往前提喔所以修法不是一個時空凝滯的思維修法不是木乃伊"},{"start":6165.077,"end":6187.177,"text":"修法不是修文化資產一定要復舊如舊所以我們來檢視過去的條文跟今天的精進大有必要我們要再一次的強調誰說民主進步黨在2024的時空背景提出來的法案一定要把2016的條文一字不漏全文照草"},{"start":6188.413,"end":6190.055,"text":"立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":6206.71,"end":6226.92,"text":"必須在新的屆期重新審視之後重送新案因為每一個新的屆期它是新的民意的代表它是新的思維的產生所以在屆期不連續的狀況之下當然可以就過去的議案重新審視"},{"start":6228.761,"end":6247.994,"text":"所以本席這一次是擔任民進黨2024國會小組改革小組的召集人當我在跟小組還有專家學者在研議這個條文的時候我們確實虛心的檢視的拿出2016地震我可以時間暫停嗎主席等一下情緒整理好我們再來沒關係先暫停"},{"start":6260.933,"end":6260.953,"text":"好 繼續"},{"start":6270.45,"end":6290.485,"text":"我作為民主進步黨2024國會改革小組的召集人在調整法案 審視法案 延提新法案的同時我們確實負責任的虛心檢視了2016的版本我們提出很多的精進 我們提出很多的檢視我要跟大家來說明 大家可以回顧一下2016到2024這8年 民主黨 民主進步黨作為國會的多數"},{"start":6296.909,"end":6308.473,"text":"如果我們想要強行通過任何的議案如在野黨委員所說的是絕對無堅不摧的可是為什麼民主進步黨沒有在這八年的期間利用國會多數的時刻來通過2016我們的版本因為兩個原因我們非常嚴肅的去審視了民進黨當時的版本並沒有獲得社會全面的共識"},{"start":6324.759,"end":6337.609,"text":"所以告訴我們要再聆聽社會的聲音第二個理由我們也非常清楚的去審視了大法官誓字585號乃至於其他的釋憲文我們過去提出來的調查跟聽證權確實有與憲法漢格之處我們經過這樣子的審視我們予以自治予以檢視讓草案維持是草案而不是成為最終的法案"},{"start":6354.582,"end":6371.661,"text":"今天本席站在這裡我們的身份叫做立法委員法案會隨著時空背景有不同的思維跟不同的討論沒有道理說今天在談2024的國會改革版本就是要挑戰民進黨跟2016的主張不同"},{"start":6374.107,"end":6395.856,"text":"我必須很抱歉的說 這8年的時空光景 有部分委員連選區都不曉得換了幾輪 有部分的政治工作者連他的政黨都可以一再的跳槽 立場都可以改變 難道法案的內容精神演繹不能夠精進嗎"},{"start":6397.389,"end":6404.554,"text":"所以今天在這裡我們請大家審視民主進步黨最新的條文版本我們在"},{"start":6405.899,"end":6412.323,"text":"第8章用兩節來處理調查權第一節處理國會院會層級的調查權第二節來處理委員會層次的調閱小組民主進步黨這一次的法案是有調查權但是調查權的行使不可以與憲法所規範的事項"},{"start":6428.872,"end":6438.937,"text":"跟立委職權相關的議案相符者不可溢出所以我們在我們的第8章第一節或第二節都針對調查權的行使進行了明確的規範所以民進黨的版本是可調查但是在憲法的約束上有限制然後當然要強化調查過程當中的保密作為"},{"start":6454.224,"end":6459.961,"text":"所以請大家在評論民進黨2024的版本的時候不要一味的去"},{"start":6461.555,"end":6484.533,"text":"帶風向好像民進黨這一次依舊對於大家所理解的叫調查權是完全不接受的NO我們也參照了大家的意見如果對於調查權的行使如果有我們在符合正當法律的程序之下對於不配合沒有依據規範要提供有利於國會調查需要的這些"},{"start":6490.256,"end":6515.497,"text":"文件或是這些相關的說明的時候我們民主進步黨的版本依舊也是得以來施以行政法所以這些我們都採納參採就如同我們的昭偉他是專業的法律人他自己對於藐視國會罪的部分他個人的版本也是否定了能夠直接予以刑責來處理它因為他認為這就溢出了"},{"start":6518.92,"end":6530.607,"text":"議出了憲法所授權的範圍但我不會說吳宗憲召委的版本跟其他委員的不同我就來挑戰誰對或誰錯我們今天在這裡務實的來討論議案因為時間有限我也請大家能夠來多多檢視民主進步黨這一次國會改革的版本"},{"start":6541.894,"end":6556.902,"text":"國會有權就要有責大家非常重視的權責相符的部分調查權的部分人事同意權的行使讓它更加嚴謹的部分民主進步黨都予以修正入法"},{"start":6557.722,"end":6565.206,"text":"然後在責任政治的部分國會對於委員自身的專業問政的各項幕僚機關的協助乃至於委員自律以及國會問政品質的克責問責我們都予以含納所以我們是一個非常周延"},{"start":6575.971,"end":6578.513,"text":"全責相符的國會改革方案而不是只往擴權的一端去無限上綱我也非常感謝出席的專家學者們在線上聆聽的公民朋友們大家可以好好去審視每一個委員乃至於黨團所提出的版本"},{"start":6595.442,"end":6609.917,"text":"是不是達到權責相符的國會改革的本質是不是有遵循憲法所授予的國會能夠行使的權限是不是有違反人權之餘"},{"start":6611.699,"end":6637.276,"text":"這些部分大家都可以經過不斷的對話、審視來匯聚社會的共識時間到了,謝謝大家我們後續希望還有更多的公聽會因為我大概只發言了我想發言的十分之一謝謝主席,謝謝大家謝謝吳委員接下來我們補充介紹到場的學者國立台灣大學政治學系左振東教授"},{"start":6639.845,"end":6664.346,"text":"我們接著就請羅志強委員發言在台灣民主發展的過程當中其實民主進步黨一直對台灣有很多的貢獻"},{"start":6665.779,"end":6691.479,"text":"那民主進步黨有很多的前輩我也非常的敬重那我今天就要特別講蔡同榮前輩蔡同榮過去在民主進步黨他有一個尊稱叫做蔡公投那蔡公投蔡同榮先生在過去的立法院裡面有兩個很重要的主張一個就是希望公投可以跟大選合併舉行"},{"start":6694.407,"end":6717.897,"text":"讓公民意志充分顯現也讓今天透過提高投票率能夠形塑一個有民意基礎的公投決定另外一個就是提出了藐視國會罪希望能夠讓我們的立法院能夠不負選民所託能夠充分行使立法院該有的調查權"},{"start":6719.602,"end":6742.427,"text":"然後能夠監督政府然後為民喉舌但我這邊非常遺憾的這兩件事情都被今天的民進黨今天的民進黨的立委推翻了蔡同榮先生的心願變成遺願而這個遺願民進黨全部推翻"},{"start":6744.295,"end":6761.651,"text":"我先講公投 民進黨現在最近在談到所謂的有關於他的國會改革版本他一直講說時空環境不同在我看來只是屁股位置不同啦很簡單一個道理 就以蔡同榮講的公投我也提出了公投的修法"},{"start":6762.881,"end":6784.202,"text":"民進黨多年來都是主張公投跟大選要合併舉行陳其邁也曾經有主張而且話說得非常重說反對公投綁大選的人其實就是把民意視為洪水猛獸後來好不容易公投跟大選合併舉行之後民進黨因為認為對他的整個政治的利益不利"},{"start":6785.287,"end":6812.236,"text":"於是又把公投跟大選拆開來 閹割了公投從此之後 台灣的公投又被關進鐵籠裡面如果民進黨真的認為時空環境變了公投從該併大選 變成是不該併大選那也沒關係 你就一以蓋之的尊重是改變了這個形式 是嗎不到兩年 接下來民進黨提出修憲"},{"start":6813.871,"end":6819.777,"text":"要做公民復決他竟然又把他跟大選合併在一起說真的我沒有看過轉彎轉這麼快轉彎轉這麼大的政黨而今天回到我們國會聽證調查藐視國會的相關的立法我不客氣的說"},{"start":6839.842,"end":6867.11,"text":"國會聽證調查的制度談了20年沒有建制那是過去立法院的怠惰啊是對不起我們的選民對不起我們中華民國憲法我在這邊 擔任立法委員也不過 兩個月我跟各位說我真的深刻的感受到陳其邁口中的無牙的老虎是什麼滋味啊因為沒有調查 充分的調查權沒有充分的聽證權"},{"start":6868.888,"end":6890.582,"text":"因為對於官員說謊、不實陳述、反質詢、拒絕提供資料、敷衍提供資料所有今天在立法院我們見到的我這兩個月見證的官員們的傲慢跟囂張立法委員基本上通通束手無策完全是良心事業啦"},{"start":6894.861,"end":6908.848,"text":"我今天在立法院說謊不說謊看我官員高興啦我提供資料不提供資料看我官員高興啦那我想請問您這樣的立法院他能夠充分發揮憲政的職能嗎所以這是為什麼今天新的國會我們要提出國會改革"},{"start":6918.68,"end":6942.606,"text":"的法案我們要落實聽證調查制度我們要來制定藐視國會的處罰當然聽證調查的制度如何進行這是修法過程當中可以廣納各方的意見但是絕對不可以像民進黨今天提出的版本這種自我閹割跟所謂自我放棄"},{"start":6944.754,"end":6970.768,"text":"簡直就是民進黨版的另類行政權的葵花寶典只是行政權經過民進黨版的這個國會改革提案它的葵花寶典行政權掌握神功但至公的是立法院的職權藐視國會到底該用什麼樣的處罰方式這是立法我們可以討論的但是如果沒有處罰方式"},{"start":6972.062,"end":6989.082,"text":"我跟各位講一樣回到我們這兩個月看到的立法院變成官員的良心事業他高興說謊就說謊他不提供資料不提供資料他消極應付你就應付你這樣的國會跟廢物的差別在哪裡我不知道啊"},{"start":6990.615,"end":7019.455,"text":"所以為什麼今天在這邊我也常在講國會改革不是為了一黨一派國會改革甚至是為了民進黨的理念跟理想這民進黨過去20年來一路走來主張支持的東西怎麼今天全部拋空把它忘光光來提出一個自我閹割自我限縮然後完全為官員服務的葵花至公保點呢我無法理解 以上"},{"start":7025.845,"end":7049.495,"text":"我們先補充介紹到場的專家學者前立法委員黃士傑律師萬國法律事務所陳鵬光律師萬國法律事務所陳英明律師國立清華大學通識教育中心黃仁俊助理教授"},{"start":7051.291,"end":7063.451,"text":"那補充到介紹到場委員 鍾嘉賓召委 洪孟楷委員好 那接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員發言 謝謝"},{"start":7074.069,"end":7100.29,"text":"謝謝昭偉 昭偉可不可以先不要算時間提醒你一下因為大地震 在場所有的學者專家可能大家都有自己的 比如說學校裡面 家庭 任何什麼事情要處理是我們等一下先暫停休息一下讓他們也可以去打打電話 或者說做些什麼樣的事情跟昭偉來提醒 請昭偉裁決"},{"start":7102.552,"end":7124.057,"text":"是否等一下我們在下一位鍾嘉賓召委那個發言先休息OK好那不好意思謝謝鍾召委好意提醒了是那我們在待會那個鍾瑞雄委員發言結束之後我們休息5分鐘然後5分鐘之後回來我們就繼續接著由鍾召委發言謝謝大家"},{"start":7125.745,"end":7137.261,"text":"謝謝 謝謝昭偉我們在場的所有我敬佩的我們學者專家各界的精英還有我們立法院的各位同事這幾天各個政黨裡面公訪的一個焦點就在整個國會調查權的對象"},{"start":7139.764,"end":7141.305,"text":"國會改革 國會調查權的定性 行使的界限 行使的方式跟程序"},{"start":7158.457,"end":7176.911,"text":"這個其實都做成很多號的一個解釋大體定調調查權是立法院行使憲法職權所必要的輔助性的一個權利這個我相信在立法院裡面沒有一個黨派會去拒絕說國會可以擁有調查權最近我看國民黨對民進黨批評的很兇說這個是在完成民主進步黨的理想這個好意大可不必整個國會是人民的一個國會要怎麼樣開放的一個國會"},{"start":7187.319,"end":7187.479,"text":"行訴訴訟法"},{"start":7216.86,"end":7219.842,"text":"在184條裡面他本身就有拒絕證言權的這樣的一個針對特定的一個親屬之間我曾經當過法定代理人的那這一些人是連法院叫我來叫我去來作證我理都可以不要去理你了"},{"start":7232.872,"end":7247.016,"text":"這個其實就是在談整個這個期待可能性的問題嘛那我也是人性尊嚴的一環那我必須要提出來就是說這個現在的一個爭議裡面出現的大部分如果說賦予調查成立調查委員會的一個權限卻沒有給這個委員會相當強制的一個規範那麼受邀請的一個對象他拒絕來提供資料或者對於查明真相能力打折扣那這樣的話這樣的一個規範的話"},{"start":7260.74,"end":7275.286,"text":"那確實是我們也覺得說法律必須要去充實的一個地方但是可不可以強到像國民黨的總召傅君琦所提出來的連私人的部分都可以透過立法院的決議來移送檢查機關這個讓我第一個想到的就是擴權我從第8屆跟顧立雄委員我們共提的一個國會改革的一個版本我到現在都承認"},{"start":7287.093,"end":7297.396,"text":"民主進步黨到第9屆2016年的時候也提出黨版大家都有討論第8屆就林佳龍那第9屆就我跟顧立雄那民進黨也有黨版那為什麼到最後沒有過我們在閹割嗎沒有啊國民黨你也不贊成啊那個叫做社會沒有共識啊那社會沒有共識什麼樣來達到共識我來看看啊我們在講說司法院大法官會議裡面從它歷屆裡面"},{"start":7315.287,"end":7320.511,"text":"他從1992年做成了4-293他確立公營銀行的文件調閱權1993年的4-325強調說目前只有監察院外立法院也有行使憲法職權文件的一個調閱權在1993年325號"},{"start":7332.461,"end":7347.414,"text":"才算確立立法院可以行使調閱權的一個權利也就是說連大法官的態度也就一直在成長一直在做一個改變到了1998年4月461號重申立法院對機關提供資料有餘力可以邀請該會"},{"start":7351.487,"end":7366.741,"text":"議會2014年針對319真相調查委員會大家一直在談的四字五八五確立國會調查權的憲政框架這幾天大家在立法院的攻防裡面其實都是在講說處罰的範圍怎麼樣合理的一個強制的一個手段"},{"start":7368.201,"end":7394.448,"text":"在2015年我們立法院的調閱偵查證券所做成的729號的大法官會議解釋也認定立法院向檢察機關調味權證也僅限於偵查終結不起訴確定或者未經起訴其他方式結案的一個證券算是對文件調味權的一個限制我相信這些看起來眼花繚亂但是也不是原封不動"},{"start":7395.629,"end":7421.347,"text":"在我看來是與時俱進那我們立法院立法委員是在行使人民的意志那我們現在說要國會改革好啊有調查權好事啊民進黨也有版本出來啊我們也贊成啊但對象跟範圍我們這樣子用政治攻防的一個方式我們到底改變了些什麼我們到底要達到些什麼"},{"start":7422.712,"end":7437.085,"text":"現在各個黨的黨版裏面有沒有傳達人民對國會改革的一個期望我希望大家可以平心靜氣啊所以今天這麼多學者專家來啊我要很仔細的 我在那邊在台下聆聽啊透過我們這麼多的專家學者的一個專業來釐清現在世界趨勢的一個動態好的部分啊我們用心來跟人民來溝通你像比如說"},{"start":7449.176,"end":7462.489,"text":"上個禮拜我們在內政委員會海巴法的修訂裡面我們都說好就讓民眾黨的版本進來以後再來討論甚至於國民黨要求說我們到地方去開公聽"},{"start":7464.639,"end":7489.118,"text":"本席都認為說講得很有道理就讓他去公聽再次強調國會是在實施人民的意志不是只有單純的政治政黨之間的一個攻防我們也期待有這麼多學者專家在不要讓他們看笑話了先放下黨派之劍凝聚整個社會上的一個共識"},{"start":7490.579,"end":7514.927,"text":"這個才是重點當我一想到我相信昭偉很清楚你本身也在法界出來我也當過那麼久的律師我們在傳喚證人的時候你說把證人找來法官要你拒絕也要先問你的身份問你的身份到底他這個拒絕要不要讓他簽下去看你這些關係的時候馬上說要提醒你說你可以拒絕證言那我們立法院毫無限制的"},{"start":7515.99,"end":7544.054,"text":"人民一定會講我們真的在擴權我們到底要達到什麼樣的國會改革各個政黨應該躺開心胸再去講說民進黨不是2016年有提出嗎是啊我們有提出啊本席也有提出啊提出又怎麼樣那社會沒有共識啊如果按照說人數多的話那2016年這樣版本全部都通過啦所以啊我是覺得大家比較謹慎來處理國會改革的事情尤其是期待"},{"start":7545.826,"end":7563.014,"text":"我們是要做多久?我們立法院是要做多久?國會改革不能到最後笑話立法委員沒有人幹一輩子的我都很怕我們立法院這一次通過了一個法案如果人民這個範圍無限制的擴張的話是立法院在作孽謝謝謝謝莊委員那我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":7580.151,"end":7581.813,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":7603.747,"end":7607.25,"text":"法則提高,提高可以找我,法則提高不要找我"},{"start":7624.405,"end":7625.186,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7647.377,"end":7648.098,"text":"公職委員會主席"},{"start":8084.506,"end":8096.128,"text":"我們現在補充介紹國立政治大學政治學系聖信源教授接下來我們請宗嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":8102.834,"end":8127.972,"text":"主席 我們在場的學者專家 各機關代表我想今天上午因為地震的突發狀況 很多大眾運輸暫停服務以至於學者專家到的比較慢但是上午在研究室也恭臨了今天前面幾位學者專家的高見我覺得都非常的有道理在今天呢 我們都從憲法的學理 包括大法官的解釋 引經據典"},{"start":8129.033,"end":8157.935,"text":"但是我們來看一看國會改革跟人民有什麼關係我們接下來就從民眾的角度來思考這個問題因為就在昨天的新聞報導我們看到了本屆國會的最大黨因為積極投入國會改革的議題在媒體報導說導致於滿意度急劇下滑這是什麼原因我用一個方式來形容中了樂透該怎麼做"},{"start":8158.959,"end":8185.779,"text":"中了樂透該怎麼做應該是好好的謹慎規劃理財但是有人中了樂透以前想買不到的通通要買我們來看看今天的這個題目大概我們來看一下當國會第一大黨終於成為國會第一大黨再次成為國會第一大黨的時候他要將過去這幾年來在立法院他想做不能做的通通要做想做什麼想要質詢蔡英文總統"},{"start":8187.048,"end":8208.174,"text":"想要做什麼?想要對於總統提名的人事同意權的案子要求這些被提名人要依照他的意思來答覆想要做什麼?想要在立法院進行調閱小組的時候要求行政機關要提供他要的資料這個都是目前國會最大黨過去"},{"start":8210.39,"end":8236.587,"text":"其間一直想要的因此當本屆成為第一大廠之後 中了樂透之後什麼都想要 什麼都要買 什麼都要一次來完畢但是人民關切的是什麼呢 就是今天提綱的第四點人民不反對健全國會但是為什麼國會的改革在過去這幾年來 一致在民間沒有共識因為社會對於立法院的信賴度還有待提升"},{"start":8237.813,"end":8266.995,"text":"民間對於立法委員的表現還有待考量因此民間擔心這些藉國會改革之名要擴張國會權利會不會反過來去侵犯人民的權利會不會影響到我們國家的安全這才是今天第四點提綱代表人民的聲音所以我今天就用這個人民能夠理解的方式來談一談這四點主張我們怎麼來看待首先看到總統副立法會"},{"start":8267.495,"end":8289.778,"text":"委員做國情報告這個其實我們民眾都覺得對阿縣市首長都會到議會去報告阿那總統來立法院報告似乎也無不可但是如果從民眾不曉得的憲政原理從中華民國憲政體制的嚴格他是有個變遷的過程"},{"start":8291.547,"end":8293.709,"text":"國民大會在憲法本文有質詢總統的這樣的設計嗎 沒有"},{"start":8308.516,"end":8321.078,"text":"是在李前總統時期一機關二階段修憲要將萬年國會終結的時候要將總統的選舉權交給人民來行使的時候他跟國民大會的一個談判"},{"start":8322.284,"end":8348.588,"text":"那時候很多目前國民黨現任立委他們之前的前輩很清楚的參與這樣的一個政治上的談判後來給了什麼國民大會什麼權利國民大會被剝奪了總統的選舉權但是他們取得了對總統來國民大會進行國情諮問國情報告的權利而且是講完了綜合一個回答而已"},{"start":8349.534,"end":8354.072,"text":"那麼這樣的一個權利隨著國民大會逐漸的 呃 監察院"},{"start":8354.813,"end":8381.904,"text":"被去國會機關化監察院的同意權行使被移到國民大會然後國民大會被終結掉之後這些權利又移到了立法院所以當現在的立法院含不啷噹接受了這些歷史遺跡的時候都以為這是他國會本來就應有的權利抱歉包括徵修條文民進黨努力很久要求把監察院跟考試權回歸到他的一個國會權跟行政權"},{"start":8382.924,"end":8403.374,"text":"在野黨國民黨堅持不同意在這樣的前提之下我們同現在的法例要談要將原屬於憲法設計監察院的調查權回歸到屬於立法院的國會權難道不能夠好好的來思考嗎另外我們談到人事同學行使以及對行政機關進行調查的時候"},{"start":8405.731,"end":8431.498,"text":"最大黨一直想要要求用藐視國會的方式來刻意行政機關的義務這個就建權落實國會調查權我想民進黨的版本也是認可這樣的一個調查權必須有一個後面的強制基礎但是看到國民黨的諸多版本嚴重的侵犯到人民的隱私權跟自由權"},{"start":8433.526,"end":8456.345,"text":"請問國會行使調查權的時候不是要調查行政機關?監督行政機關嗎?這些版本讓人民的自由跟隱私陷入了恐慌當中有的甚者國會要落實自己的權利也要落實對自己的義務當權責不如的時候就會濫權我們看到國會這大黨所提出的諸多版本都只有在擴張國會的權利"},{"start":8458.646,"end":8484.942,"text":"卻忽略了相對國會跟立法委員應盡的義務什麼義務 保密的義務過去國會進行審查 機密預算審查 機密會議的時候紛紛擾擾大家 人民都聚焦說 喔 國會議員可以藉職權的行使 窒息許多重要的機密然而這些機密似乎很容易的就流到對台灣國家安全有威脅的境外敵對勢力手上 是這樣嗎"},{"start":8486.53,"end":8513.693,"text":"立法委員：國會立法院有辦法做到在進行調查的同時能夠確保這些機密不會外洩不會危害國安嗎這兩個問題才是今天公聽會可能觸及或者在現有的版本上沒有碰到的重大議題這才是人民關心的議題這也才是國會目前最大黨強推國會改革卻沒有辦法讓人民適宜"},{"start":8514.173,"end":8529.566,"text":"以至於滿意度直直落的重要原因我們希望這個公聽會請學者專家提出你們寶貴的見解讓未來我們的國會改革走得穩 走得遠 謝謝好 謝謝中召委接下來我們請左振東教授發言"},{"start":8539.325,"end":8553.63,"text":"主席,各位委員,各位學者專家在座的各位大家好,線上在收看的朋友們大家好。我想剛才聆聽了各位委員的高見,其實也很有感觸。"},{"start":8555.424,"end":8574.192,"text":"特別是前面這個中委員提到的一些想法我覺得也忍不住要說幾句話了因為中委員剛才一直認為說好像在野黨推國會改革是導致滿意度下降的一個重要原因"},{"start":8577.855,"end":8593.409,"text":"中委員,請回去看一下賴清德總統當選人最近講的一句話很多政策提出來的時候可能大家並不是非常能夠接受但是時間久了你就知道它的價值所以很多事情也許我們需要花長眼的時間去看"},{"start":8594.009,"end":8595.73,"text":"民進黨版本提出了一些很完整的做法我是滿期待的結果我剛才看了一下書面資料沒有看到民進黨的版本"},{"start":8612.469,"end":8612.489,"text":"國會調查權"},{"start":8627.952,"end":8627.972,"text":"國會調查權規範"},{"start":8643.274,"end":8669.288,"text":"或其他委員提出相應版本我相信有一個版本大家是比較容易去討論也比較能夠達成所謂形成社會共識這樣的一個目標那我覺得其實我也很感謝剛才幾位委員的發言因為事實上有談到一些想法我覺得我想要先回應一下"},{"start":8670.546,"end":8694.195,"text":"所謂立法委員的社會形象不佳所以立法委員不能夠被賦予太多的權利這樣子一個講法正確嗎?其實我想不管是什麼樣的機關都有可能有被社會信賴的人來執掌或者不被社會信賴的人來執掌"},{"start":8695.555,"end":8717.786,"text":"但是一個機關被社會所信賴的人來執掌或者不被社會所信賴的人來執掌並不是決定我們要給這個機關多大權力的一個原因因為制度它就是一個超越人的制度它就是一個可以有自己的生命而去使我們這個國家的民主政治走得更健全、更穩健"},{"start":8719.226,"end":8740.218,"text":"事實上我想在座的很多我們有法律人都讀過這個聯邦論聯邦論有一句話講說人如果是天使組成的我們就不需要政府政府如果是天使組成的我們就不需要分權制衡正是因為我們都不是天使我們都有缺點所以我們知道一旦我們進了那個位置上"},{"start":8740.939,"end":8745.004,"text":"國會改革的核心使命就是要分權制衡就是要讓中華民國的憲政體制能夠發揮分權制衡的效果"},{"start":8758.842,"end":8779.035,"text":"為什麼分權制衡這麼重要為什麼我們現在沒有足夠的分權制衡我只講一點非常關鍵的事情就是今天的行政跟立法權力極度的不均衡極度的不平衡立法沒有辦法有效的去制衡這個行政部門"},{"start":8781.876,"end":8794.863,"text":"中華民國憲法行政要向立法負責,但是請問我們的行政院有向立法院負責嗎?好,當然這個問題也許比較抽象,我就從制度的條文來跟大家報告"},{"start":8796.141,"end":8810.679,"text":"在我們在修憲的時候1997年修憲的時候那個時候只要翻開的相關的資料都知道當時的政府的設計的原型是法國第五共和的所謂的雙首長制或者半總統制"},{"start":8812.108,"end":8812.828,"text":"中文字幕提供"},{"start":8842.628,"end":8861.035,"text":"但是我們現在的行政院 行政院長任命之後並沒有這個憲法上的義務向國會提出一個信任案也就是我們國會沒有機會去對這個行政院長表達我們國會是不是接受這樣子的一位行政院長"},{"start":8862.506,"end":8862.706,"text":"大韓民國"},{"start":8880.786,"end":8901.79,"text":"雖然我個人不接受,但是如果有人把有總理的大韓民國當作總統制,那我們中華民國也可以用總統制去想像它,那應該它是可以去參照大韓民國那韓國的總理是需要國會同意的,韓國的總理任命是需要國會同意的"},{"start":8902.77,"end":8921.426,"text":"韓國的國會是可以經由三分之一的提議半數的決定去建議總統更換總理或者他的內閣的部會首長我們的立法院有這項職權嗎沒有所以不管你是比照"},{"start":8922.679,"end":8950.409,"text":"法國的第五共和或是你比照韓國一個半總統制一個有總理的總統制兩者其實國會都有相當的權限而這些在我們的中華民國的立法院都沒有你怎麼能說我們的立法院是有足夠的權力去實踐所謂分權制衡的一個憲政的理念呢所以這是為什麼我們今天要談國會改革為什麼我們今天要談總統到立法院來進行國情"},{"start":8952.17,"end":8952.45,"text":"國情報告"},{"start":8973.439,"end":8974.56,"text":"韓國的文在寅總統他在任的時候經常去國會報告"},{"start":8991.197,"end":8991.418,"text":"政務委員會主席"},{"start":9005.923,"end":9020.41,"text":"這是我們今天要講的兩個重要的精神一個分權制衡 一個政黨合作如果根據這兩個精神我們怎麼來看我們的所謂的總統的國情報告呢我這裡頭有一個大膽的建議"},{"start":9021.704,"end":9045.993,"text":"因為在這裡頭目前我看到的這個提綱裡頭討論的是說到底是不是要怎麼樣回答總統進行國情報告之後要怎麼樣回答要急問急答要統問統答我認為這個問題其實當然重要但是不是最重要的我認為最重要的問題是國會對於總統的報告可以做什麼事情"},{"start":9047.116,"end":9067.573,"text":"不管是即問即答 或者同問同答 其實它都是一個附帶的功能 它不是一個主要的功能因為總統並不向國會負責 是行政院長要向國會負責所以總統 我認為如果要總統不管是即問即答 同問同答 他都可能會模糊了這樣子一個憲政的設計"},{"start":9069.134,"end":9085.06,"text":"雖然同問同答是可行的,但是即問即答或者要求總統向國會負責,這是違背我們的憲政設計可是我認為國會可以做什麼事情?相反的,我認為國會可以在總統報告之後進行投票"},{"start":9086.591,"end":9108.604,"text":"進行辯論跟投票法國的第五共和憲法在2008年修憲之後他是有允許國會議員在總統國情報告之後進行辯論原來馬克宏總統希望修憲讓總統也能夠參與在這個辯論但是修憲沒有過當然這也是蠻吊詭的一件事情我想如果在台灣也許大家都會同意"},{"start":9109.585,"end":9118.1,"text":"可是我認為從憲政設計的角度來說我反而覺得應該去有一個投票機制立法委員到底讚不讚同總統的這個報告"},{"start":9120.601,"end":9139.891,"text":"為什麼?因為目前立法委員沒有機會對於行政院長是不是信任是不是獲得國會的信任來進行投票沒有這個機制所以如果我們的總統國情報告的設計是在新內閣任命之後"},{"start":9141.031,"end":9161.085,"text":"邀請總統來進行報告對於總統報告的內容來進行投票那麼就形同是對於總統任命的革魁來進行一個信任投票他是沒有拘束力的他也沒有辦法在我們憲政設計上具有拘束力但是他有可能可以創造一種政治上的一種壓力會讓政府 讓總統知道"},{"start":9166.529,"end":9193.887,"text":"國會對於這個行政院長的想法如何讓總統必須要在這個行政院以及內閣的任命過程裡頭去跟在野黨尋求合作、溝通在他的未來的施政計畫上要尋求更多在野黨的支持我認為這個機制的重點是在這裡當然這個想法並不是非常的成熟但我希望各位專家學者也好、立法委員也好能夠去思考這個問題"},{"start":9195.548,"end":9223.802,"text":"這個思考的起點也就是我剛才向各位報告的因為我們的國會並沒有法國第五共和的國會所擁有的一個所謂要求總理就職的時候進行信任投票我們也沒有韓國國會要求總理任命的時候可以進行同意權所以如何讓我們的國會有相對的憲政上有相對憲政跟法律上的武器能夠迫使"},{"start":9225.302,"end":9245.072,"text":"這個我們憲法上規定行政向立法負責的這一個條文能夠真正落實我認為是我們今天在思考國情之文裡頭所應該考慮的一個核心的問題那麼當然今天因為提供很多我想關於調查權的部分我就只簡短的講到一點調查權的確是非常複雜的問題這裡頭當然因為基於這個4次這個325號這個585號的這個"},{"start":9254.116,"end":9280.637,"text":"解釋文都已經確認了立法院是有調查權雖然立法院的調查權有學界的說法認為是一個不完整的調查權但立法院的確是有調查權所以對於立法院的調查權的規範當然是非常重要的這裏頭包括什麼就是立法院通過什麼樣的程序可以去建立一個調查委員會調查委員會可以存在多久"},{"start":9281.757,"end":9300.995,"text":"6個月 或者是直到這個院會這一期的任期結束調查委員會的職權範圍因為現在是說根據這個大法官的解釋是說必須要符合立法院的職權範圍那麼到底什麼是所謂立法院的職權範圍那麼以及其他一些複雜的問題包括調查委員會"},{"start":9304.209,"end":9332.669,"text":"可不可以跟調查委員會進行的時候如果被調查的事項同時開啟了所謂的這個同時開啟了司法程序調查委員會的這個程序可不可以繼續進行調查委員會在調查的過程是不是可以到行政機關去進行訪視這個訪視對於行政機關會帶來什麼是要克與什麼樣的義務還是他是一個自願性質的那麼以及包括剛才所提到的保密的問題我不認為"},{"start":9334.35,"end":9357.678,"text":"保密是一個阻缺調查權的一個理由但是的確可以在這一方面做一些規範包括說不只是國家安全的問題也可能涉及到個人權利侵犯的問題這些我覺得都是可以進一步去規範那如果從這個角度這些問題來看的話可能我們需要一部單獨的法律來處理國會調查權的行使"},{"start":9361.499,"end":9380.911,"text":"而不是把它放在所謂目前的立法院職權行使辦法裡頭我認為這是一件非常嚴肅的事情這涉及到我們能不能擁有一個有牙齒的老虎但是這個絕對不是說有了牙齒就是對的而是這個牙齒能夠真的把壞人咬住"},{"start":9381.391,"end":9381.451,"text":"黃士傑律師發言"},{"start":9409.783,"end":9428.655,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位學者專家以及待場列席的各位官員還有北極先進大家早安我想在我的報告正式開始前我先回應一下剛才左教授有提到說民進黨的版本好像在今天的資料裡面沒有"},{"start":9429.575,"end":9449.527,"text":"據我的了解應該是因為比較晚提出所以說還沒有正式的附委調查附委來審查所以應該在關係文書裡面應該已經有了所以可以再請學術專家們再把相關的版本找出來看一下提供我們更好的意見"},{"start":9450.447,"end":9474.211,"text":"那麼今天我想我們回到憲法的角度來談立法院的調查權當然剛剛有很多的學者專家跟委員的先進都已經去提到了很多號的大法官的釋字我們現在憲法法庭都已經對於立法院的調查權做出了非常多的明確的這些範圍的規範以及一些原則性的律師"},{"start":9478.092,"end":9485.718,"text":"但是我想後面還是有一個很根本性的問題我們在看各黨的版本在看了很多的討論之後會發現確實這個調查權"},{"start":9491.104,"end":9519.717,"text":"我想在我國的法制裏面我剛才講的很清楚他是附隨的權利、輔助性的權利至少在憲法本領域裏面並沒有像監察權一樣直接說這個立法院有調查權所以他調查權是為了行使、履行他在憲法上明文規定他有的這些職責包含質詢、包含立法、包含預算的審查等等的這些規定、文士同意權等等這些職權的時候他可以來行使這個調查權"},{"start":9520.877,"end":9544.518,"text":"那麼調查權呢 有但是呢 到底具體要怎麼樣來行使才不會違反其他很多憲法上的誡命包含正當法律程序包含對於這個權力侵害的救濟以及包含對於這個什麼樣行使的範圍都需要有法律做更細節的規定這也是為什麼我們今天在這邊大家來探討這一個"},{"start":9546.841,"end":9558.158,"text":"關於立法院職權行使法甚或未來如同剛才左教授有說對於這個調查程序的行使呢要有一個專法來定的話呢應該要符合哪些原則"},{"start":9559.676,"end":9587.626,"text":"因為我們就要來思考說從這個憲法的角度來看權力分立與制衡可以說在憲法的前半政府組織這一塊是非常重要的一個原則所以我們在討論這些問題的時候我們應該要去思考說當我們讓立法院開始行使他的調查權的時候他跟其他憲法機關的權力之間的關係是什麼"},{"start":9588.936,"end":9604.636,"text":"譬如說我們現在還是有監察院雖然說各個政黨之間對於考試院監察院到底要五權還是要三權現在有很多不同的立場但是我們的現行法裡面還是有監察院而且我們對於古典的權力分離理論"},{"start":9606.778,"end":9608.359,"text":"立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":9625.174,"end":9642.573,"text":"所以在賦予他們的這個工具跟這個機關的組成人員的訓練其實還有需要進行的這些震盪法律程序都有個別不同的屬性跟規範所以我們現在面臨這個新的問題如果立法院"},{"start":9643.752,"end":9662.923,"text":"要用這個合一制機關要來行使調查權的時候是不是還是跟原本的立法權的行使是一樣的也就是說沒有任何的實體的條件沒有任何的程序的規範只要大家開會決議或是黨團協商說好就好"},{"start":9663.783,"end":9679.532,"text":"或是透過表決可以就可以我覺得如果我們是這種方式來立法的話我覺得會有相當大的疑慮而且對於啟動這個調查權之後不管是要調閱文件也好或是要傳喚證人"},{"start":9682.569,"end":9682.91,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":9699.465,"end":9726.245,"text":"立法權可以有如司法權一樣這樣子來針對個案來做這樣子的調查而且呢後續的這個救濟像我們做司法的話我們做出一個決定他還有審計還可以上訴還有後面的救濟的可能性但是我們現在看到很多的版本裡面我們啟動這個調查程序其實就是一個政治決定"},{"start":9727.926,"end":9741.058,"text":"做出一個結論也是政治決定到底後面要去做出處罰嗎還是說所謂的公佈真相有拘束力嗎還是說他後面有什麼樣的"},{"start":9742.829,"end":9768.6,"text":"對應的法律效果其實我們看不太清楚所以我是認為說在很多這些調查權機關的本質因為立法院它還有一個屬性它可以說是政治的其中的地方立法院就是政黨之間政治攻防的核心它跟司法權、監察權所行使的調查權背後的目的常常帶有很不一樣的"},{"start":9770.08,"end":9797.247,"text":"沒有一個經過訓練或是說有一套整完整的法律去規定說到底這些權利可以怎麼行使所以我們是希望說如果真的立法院的調查權要能夠定好上位的這個憲法的問題如何去劃分權利跟權利之間的這個界限跟範圍希望要有一個更細緻的討論跟規定以及在這個"},{"start":9799.989,"end":9815.321,"text":"行使的過程裏面看到很多人在討論說是不是應該擴及除了對政府機關公務機關之外還要擴張到私人的部分我相信這個在保障人權上面也是一個非常值得探討的"},{"start":9816.161,"end":9841.44,"text":"因為目前為止我們沒有看到一個很完整的對於立法院司法調查權針對私人的機關的時候他如果他要拒絕或是他要主張他的權利的時候後面接下來的救濟程序也好或是說他可以怎麼樣來主張這些東西其實我們都相當的有疑慮所以有很多的這些規定我們認為或許"},{"start":9843.041,"end":9858.463,"text":"第1個專法經過更長的時間大家及時廣獄來討論寫一個更好的版本而不是糾結於各政黨之間互相在攻擊說你以前提過什麼版本或是民進黨以前提過什麼版本"},{"start":9860.086,"end":9880.988,"text":"公聽會提過什麼版本 其實如果要追溯的話既然大法官在4至325 4至585都已經有提過了所以過去草案的版本一定非常的多但是為什麼一直都沒有辦法順利把它制定出來就是我們剛剛所在爭論的這些憲法上根本的問題"},{"start":9882.309,"end":9903.069,"text":"一直沒有辦法得到一個解決所以過去這麼多的版本都沒有真正能夠三讀通過國會的改革是一個制度性的我們需要非常的謹慎來做這個處理所以我們希望說呢不是只是在互相的說以前你們說什麼我們應該往未來看如果真正讓國會擁有這個調查權之後"},{"start":9905.791,"end":9905.971,"text":"陳鵬光律師"},{"start":9935.341,"end":9958.642,"text":"主席還有各位先進那很榮幸能夠參與今天的一個公聽會那今天其實是2024年在20年前也就2004年是大法官釋字585號作成那我當時也很榮幸有參與那一場的一個憲法辯論那只是想不到20年後今天還要再討論這個立法權的一個界限的一個問題"},{"start":9960.203,"end":9979.911,"text":"今天提到有四大問題,因為時間的關係,我想先針對最後一個問題,特別是有關人民是不是會成為國會或說立法調查權的一個對象的部分,我想要特別一方面我是專家學者,一方面我想我也是一個人民,從人民的身份來做一些提醒"},{"start":9980.851,"end":9998.861,"text":"那首先當然在這個4至585號的一個解釋裡面有提到這個國會在行使調查權的時候他在一定的一個範圍內可以對這個人民跟官員他去施以這樣的一個行政的一個罰款然後來促使這個國會調查權的一個實踐但是呢在該號解釋的這個"},{"start":10008.667,"end":10027.245,"text":"一部分的協同跟一部分不同意見書就是由許玉秀大法官裡面他有提出一個很重要的一個觀點他提到這一部分的一個立法的一個調查權它本質上是一個政治的一個鬥爭而人民他有不表意的一個自由"},{"start":10027.665,"end":10055.833,"text":"他並沒有配合政黨去做政治宣傳的一個義務也因此所謂的一個國會調查權他可以去請人民來做一些配合來調查但是他的範圍不應該是一個一般性的一個義務也就是說縱使要去就國會的一個調查權去加以立法但是他也必須比較細緻的就一定的一個事項範圍"},{"start":10057.133,"end":10057.153,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":10075.569,"end":10094.501,"text":"行政法環的正當性在此同時當然人民他有他固有的一些基本權包括隱私包括秘密等等那這些他固有的一個抗辯應該也要都同時被賦予保障那也因此剛剛有專家學者或有些委員有提到"},{"start":10095.121,"end":10095.962,"text":"國會的調查權與立法的聽證權"},{"start":10123.977,"end":10150.802,"text":"這兩個到底的關係為何似乎也不是很明確那特別是目前看到版本強調所謂的一個立法的一個聽證那這部分它的一個整個的設計是不是有所謂的準司法的一個性質在這邊恐怕也是有一些它的一個疑義因為那這樣的話等於是是不是有混淆了這個立法權跟司法權的一定的一個界限"},{"start":10151.482,"end":10151.883,"text":"提供第三個問題的部分對於受備詢"},{"start":10163.933,"end":10165.174,"text":"立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":10182.245,"end":10184.927,"text":"公聽委員．立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":10199.68,"end":10227.154,"text":"被受強制處分的這樣的一個可能性這恐怕可以再去思考那當然釋字585號解釋是肯定說是可以施以行政罰緩但是如果從剛剛所談到先把67條的文字搭配釋字585號的一個文藝他講的是行政罰緩那這時候是不是還能夠進一步擴張到用刑法行事責任的部分這恐怕在憲政上"},{"start":10227.534,"end":10227.914,"text":"法律明確性問題"},{"start":10246.271,"end":10273.33,"text":"提供第二題的一個部分就所謂的立法院的人事的一個同意權我想就這部分首先想要去提醒的是人事同意權是對人的部分在行使同意這跟對事在進行調查權的一個行使恐怕是不同目前看到的委員的版本是不是把這個被提名人要行使同意權的這個對象"},{"start":10275.331,"end":10277.732,"text":"提供相關資料﹑資料範圍之廣﹑沒有對人民的隱私權的平衡畢竟在被提名人被任命以前"},{"start":10290.776,"end":10318.517,"text":"他本身至少就被提名的職位而言他還是處於一個人民的關係嘛所以在這種情況之下他是不是有那個一個義務那被這個要求去提供相關的這些個人的一個資料那乃至於說他做一個被提名的人還是處於一個人民跟國家的一個關係對於他在這個提名過程中的尋答甚至說不同意甚至說這不回答或等等的還要對他加以處罰"},{"start":10319.458,"end":10346.102,"text":"這部分恐怕也是有它的一個疑慮所在所以這部分就是說可能在這個同意權的一個行使上如果最後最嚴重的結果應該是國會、立法院他可以本與他的職權就不同意這樣的人事的一個命令不同意這樣一個人事的提名"},{"start":10346.582,"end":10367.79,"text":"所以在這種情況之下應該就是最嚴重的一個制裁那是不是還有必要要對一個被提名人在當時還處於一個人民跟國家關係去刻以一個行政的一個罰款等等的一個處罰那這部分恐怕也值得再省思最後就提剛第一題的一個部分"},{"start":10370.172,"end":10378.524,"text":"委員會專家及教授提到總統是直接對於人民負責這部分徵修條文明確並不是對立法院的"},{"start":10384.645,"end":10401.261,"text":"總統並沒有到立法院來做國情報告的義務,也因此說要把它常態化,甚至有些版本是規定成總統應到立法院來報告,這部分是不是符合憲法的一個架構恐怕也是有問題"},{"start":10402.242,"end":10429.234,"text":"那既然都沒有報告的義務那更何況說如果來報告還要用疾問疾答那這時候所謂的報告跟質詢跟備詢的區別恐怕已經有脫離了憲法的一個原意那因為這部分畢竟憲法它就它在67條是用備詢嘛那在徵修條它是用所謂的一個報告所以應該是有意的一個區別以上謝謝"},{"start":10432.125,"end":10434.149,"text":"謝謝陳大律師那我們接下來請洪夢凱委員發言"},{"start":10441.69,"end":10470.103,"text":"主席各位與會先進大家好我想今天非常感謝我們的召委召開啟動國會改革立法院職權行使法相關法案的公聽會其實不管是剛剛從一開始本席在辦公室或者是說在現場聆聽各位先進的一個意見我想追根究底大家的方向其實還是趨於一致就是大家可能都某部分同意我們需要進行國會改革只是大家爭論的部分在於是怎麼改"},{"start":10470.803,"end":10497.919,"text":"還有說怎麼改會符合現況以及符合各自的一個想法或者是初衷我不想去談說每一次這個不同的黨派有做這個政黨輪替的時候就開始有各自政黨的版本大家也都看到過去我們在立法院這幾次的一個這個委員會的一個諮詢的時候也都有拿出過去之前不同黨派立場的版本但我只想提的是"},{"start":10498.92,"end":10524.353,"text":"我在2020年2月1號進入到立法院第10屆擔任藍營最年輕的立法委員及第11屆的委員的時候其實某種程度上我們心中都還是有針對五權分立的一個理想性我們希望中華民國是長治久安我們希望能夠建立一個可長可久的制度也因此過去我們認為說法令有所不足的地方我們也希望現在能夠慢慢的把它補齊"},{"start":10525.473,"end":10550.803,"text":"在現在國會越來越趨近所謂的這種可能大家看到媒體報導或是說相關的這些影片可能比較都是衝突性的畫面或說比較都是爭議性的畫面但是實際上在國會的運作裡面其實大多數的時間都還是真真正正站在民意的立場上面好好監督行政部門也因此怎麼樣能夠讓立法院職權行使法能夠更精進讓"},{"start":10552.574,"end":10579.739,"text":"立法權跟行政權區域一致能夠立法權真正代表民意來監督行政權我想這是站在國家長治久安的一個方面來去做思考所以本期我們比較著重我自己個人比較著重在就是國情報告總統國情報告一個常態化以及行政部門來立法院備詢的時候如果說提供不實的資料偽證以及立法權是不是能夠有增加調查權的部分來去做精進"},{"start":10580.993,"end":10604.873,"text":"首先總統的國情咨文常態化其實主要是補足於責任政治的不足從1996年開始的民選總統我們到目前為止很多國人都會講是說行政院長是我們最高的行政首長但是大家也都知道真正的權力是掌握在總統手上人民一票一票選出來總統但是總統在過去不管是藍營執政不管是綠營執政"},{"start":10605.754,"end":10605.894,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10631.089,"end":10659.803,"text":"立法院我們最高的民意機關也就是向國人來去做一個報告至少要讓國人瞭解你的施政方向你的一個治國理念讓全體國人能夠好好的當作是人民的一個頭家能夠真真正正的來瞭解總統必須要帶領國家的一個方向另外我們也看到在過去期間其實行政部門很多時候變成是規避立法權的一個監督"},{"start":10660.083,"end":10677.672,"text":"尤其是在我們質詢的時候或是總質詢的時間有時間的限制其實看到很多行政官員居然是以拖時間的心態來去規避或者是迴避立法委員的一個質詢甚至有提供不實的資料我們就說我不希望用"},{"start":10678.152,"end":10694.669,"text":"政治鬥爭這四個字變成是行政部門規避監督的藉口就如同過去我們很常看到有一些時候政治攻防講不贏的時候只要扣人家紅帽子只要扣人家說你是中共同路人就可以規避監督或者就可以合理化自己的行為嗎?我不認同"},{"start":10696.11,"end":10722.643,"text":"也因此我強強調的是如果說行政部門在立法院在接受人民的一個質詢的時候接受立法院質詢的時候有做不實的回應甚至是易用資訊不對等一個情況來去回答是是而非或說回答不正確的一個答案的時候當然應該要接受處分當然應該要負起相關的責任當然應該要有相關的刑責或是罰款來去做一個規範過去的疫情"},{"start":10725.103,"end":10750.971,"text":"快篩的採購弊案 雞蛋的一個弊案或者是說疫苗的合約其實每每看到當行政部門不願意提供相關資料的時候只要扣一個政治鬥爭的紅帽子政治鬥爭的大帽子難道就可以規避難道就可以掩蓋真相嗎所以最後我想三個部分這一些都是我們必須也希望能夠在這一次討論的時候把它給完善化"},{"start":10751.391,"end":10753.252,"text":"建立長治久安的制度"},{"start":10766.124,"end":10793.435,"text":"總有一天我們擔任立法委員的角色也會離開總有一天行政官員也會離開總有一天政黨也有可能輪替但是今天我們可以希望在透過這個公聽會以及接下來的修法過程裡面我們不帶政黨利益色彩而真的是以台灣2350萬人以及中華民國的長久制度來去好好修法希望我們共同能夠完善立法院職權行使法以及相關的"},{"start":10795.476,"end":10795.976,"text":"國會改革的法案"},{"start":10822.321,"end":10823.382,"text":"公聽會．立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":10839.002,"end":10839.362,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10857.015,"end":10857.475,"text":"週一 才進行"},{"start":10872.99,"end":10901.566,"text":"所以這個部分我今天就先在上午的公聽會先做宣告那當然我也是希望藉由讓那個因為民進黨團一直希望說他在禮拜一的時候他一直希望說能夠再召開公聽會他認為一次的公聽會不足那既然下個禮拜我剛剛看了鍾佳濱委員已經有召開兩場公聽會我想這個對於民主制度民主精神以及"},{"start":10902.026,"end":10929.494,"text":"各政黨之間的溝通和諧都是一個很好的方向一個很好的發展所以我這邊做這個決定再請各黨團的助理通知黨團所屬的本會委員就是如上剛剛的宣告我們再補充介紹東海大學"},{"start":10930.618,"end":10946.383,"text":"東海大學法律系法律研究所林藤耀教授國立台灣藝術大學通識教育中心葛傳宇主任接下來我們請陳一鳴律師發言 謝謝"},{"start":10959.989,"end":10980.327,"text":"趙偉現場的專家學者還有夜襲機關的代表大家午安那今天的四個提綱雖然說是在立法院的這個地方討論但是我想這四個議題都不會只是單單的立法層次技術的問題其實都涉及到了憲法的層次"},{"start":10981.568,"end":11009.158,"text":"為什麼這樣講呢?大家都希望國會能夠改革執行的程序或者是調查的程序能夠更完備但是這個過程當中都還是會涉及到不只是機關跟機關之間的互動還包含了甚至人民也有可能進來參與整個調查程序人民的權利怎麼保障在這個過程當中其實也是非常值得注意的一部分"},{"start":11011.075,"end":11036.896,"text":"首先第一個總統赴立法院來國情報告是不是應該常態化還有他應該怎麼樣進行的程序我覺得我們都不應該忽視就是我們的憲法有它特殊之處那在我們的憲法裡面確實徵修條文裡面也確實就是規定說總統得到立法院來進行報告他是用得的這個方式"},{"start":11038.284,"end":11054.061,"text":"看起來立法院並沒有一個強制的地位可以邀請總統來所以如果我們在立法院的職權行使法裡面如果直接就規定說總統應到立法院報告或者是說就規定說總統應該進行急問急答"},{"start":11058.746,"end":11058.786,"text":"第二點"},{"start":11076.141,"end":11090.192,"text":"立法院行使人事同意權的時候那是不是應該可以召開聽證會的這個程序我們從目前各個黨團或者是個別委員提出來的這個草案的版本裡面其實我們可以看到"},{"start":11091.311,"end":11116.15,"text":"公聽會跟聽證會其實是屬於不同的程序而且對於這個程序所要求的強度是有不同的公聽會它的組織其實相對鬆散然後你沒有一定要到場的義務但是就聽證會它其實要求的強度是比較高的它可以要求你強制要到場甚至有陳述的義務不陳述會有處罰"},{"start":11118.715,"end":11142.226,"text":"那在進行人事權這件事情上面是不是可以一定要求說要進行聽證會的程序我覺得有一個地方值得思考的是當行政機關提名一個候選人他要到立法院來進行同意的時候呢如果我們要廣邀相關的人來做意見的陳述"},{"start":11144.976,"end":11166.153,"text":"我其實不能理解的是作為一個人民就一個第三人假設我是被邀請來陳述意見的人就一個第三人一個被提名者他的官位能不能夠成功的獲選這件事情對一個第三人來講有重要到他一定要到這裡來接受"},{"start":11167.663,"end":11168.584,"text":"職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":11197.813,"end":11225.958,"text":"再用心一點跟民眾做溝通因為民眾就這件事情我認為現在普遍沒有辦法去區別所謂的公聽跟聽證有什麼不同這是我就第二點的部分要做說明那第三點復立法院備詢的人選若拒絕答覆或提供不提供資料或做不實的虛偽陳述等等那就這部分是不是也要科與任何的刑事責任"},{"start":11227.925,"end":11252.535,"text":"其實剛才很多先進都有提到說四支585號四支585號裡面其實有一個很重要的說明也就是說立法院可以行使調查權他可以邀請相關的人到立法院來做說明提供資料但是不提供的時候或者是不配合的時候他的法律效果是什麼"},{"start":11253.993,"end":11256.015,"text":"立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":11276.854,"end":11279.435,"text":"各黨團的版本有一個小小的地方需要思考與補儲不管採取刑事手段或刑政手段 要用罰款的方式 後面的救濟程序要怎麼進行"},{"start":11299.144,"end":11316.854,"text":"如果你是用罰還的方式後面可以思考的兩種途徑是一個是直接在立法院這邊有一個訴願委員會去做訴願另外一個是直接到行政法院去做行政就計的動作如果我們是要用訴願的方式在目前立法院的"},{"start":11318.181,"end":11345.25,"text":"組織的編制上面我們是不是有足夠的訴願委員我們是不是有足夠的幕僚單位可以去配合這件事情那如果沒有的話那我們就貿然的說啊你不到場那或者是你拒絕拿詢那我就採取所謂的罰還那後面民眾權力的救濟他在成為一個被質詢的人不管他是官員或者是一般的民眾第三人他到場來接受質詢"},{"start":11346.817,"end":11349.599,"text":"國會行使調查權的正當性及法制化有什麼還值得思考之處?國會的調查權從歷次的大法案解釋不管是"},{"start":11374.515,"end":11398.5,"text":"三二五號五八五號或者是七二九號其實都很重要的揭示了幾個很核心的部分第一個就是權力要分立權力不能夠互相干擾到導致國家不能夠正常運作那第二個是呢人民的權力要受到保障"},{"start":11399.574,"end":11425.417,"text":"所以剛才才會提到說 如果我們在行使調查權的過程當中認為說我要有一定的強制力 或者是剛才有委員提到說立法院不能夠是紙老虎 要有牙齒但是不能夠傷到壞人 不能夠傷到好人那在這樣的情況下面 我們就要有一套完整的程序去回應或保障人民的權利"},{"start":11426.601,"end":11434.331,"text":"那再來為什麼提到說權力要分立呢我們在585號裡面有提到說有所謂的行政特權"},{"start":11435.68,"end":11436.22,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":11462.571,"end":11463.312,"text":"黃仁俊助理教授發言"},{"start":11490.115,"end":11506.242,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進大家好以下我就今天的這個公聽會的提綱然後簡要的報告這次的內容那首先在第一題的部分總統是不是要附立法院國情報告這個問題"},{"start":11507.703,"end":11535.166,"text":"從李登輝總統跟郝柏村行政院長的時候我們就已經開始談論這個問題了這個問題是一個很冗長的問題為什麼會有這樣的問題的存在主要是中央政府體制就是曖昧不明我們的憲政體制在實踐上就會有在總統制跟半總統制擺盪的情形總統在權力分立或分權制衡的時候都是很難界分的"},{"start":11535.486,"end":11561.675,"text":"他有時候總統想要站在第一線有時候他又退回到第二線不過呢從現行的條文來解釋的話憲法徵修條文第4條第3項他確實有說立法院於每年集會時得聽取這個總統國情報告不過現在並沒有成為一個憲政管理我們現在朝野互動的機制或朝野協商的機制"},{"start":11562.415,"end":11585.573,"text":"只有在立法院的朝野黨團協商嘛那缺乏了什麼?缺乏總統跟立法院相互之間有一個互動的機制嘛那如何促進這樣的互動的機制呢?如何促進這樣的互動機制?我們先來看憲法的徵修條文我們憲法徵修條文第三條行政院長由總統任命"},{"start":11586.894,"end":11613.233,"text":"第3條第2項又說行政院對立法院負責有質詢的權利立法院有質詢的權利那行政院長如果有不信任案的話可以通過的話總統要解散立法院這樣就形成一個政治僵局的雙重毀滅嘛行政院長跟立法院跟總統形成了一個政治僵局"},{"start":11614.233,"end":11627.141,"text":"政治僵局下就會形成一個雙重毀滅其實我們可以想想其實總統跟立法院是有合作的在現行的法制下或現行的實踐成果下向總統府舉行國慶典禮是由立法院來擔任國慶籌備委員會的主任委員"},{"start":11635.66,"end":11651.551,"text":"那未來這個法制化的設計除了說由這個總統副立法院國情報告的話我們還可以另外思考就是我們這個宣誓的時候總統宣誓或520就職的時候能不能也來立法院"},{"start":11652.757,"end":11668.985,"text":"特別是在總統副總統宣誓條例上他只有說中央政府所在地那我們可不可以思考一下讓總統來立法院就職來宣誓就職讓這個原本是政黨候選政黨當選人的政黨推薦總統當選人變成一個全民的總統這樣的這個條文的設計我是參考啦參考同樣也是辦總統制的這個奧地利奧地利憲法第38條第39條就是這樣的設計嘛讓總統跟立法院"},{"start":11681.832,"end":11695.567,"text":"有一個這樣的合作模式讓這個我們現在人民在總統大選跟這個立法院選舉都是在同一場大選中選出來同一張選票只是可能同一份選票不同的不同張的選票"},{"start":11696.823,"end":11714.558,"text":"能不能有一個良性的互動不管是在立法院間接民主或是總統直選的直接民主這樣的選制設計上讓間接民主跟直接民主有一個交融的機會讓總統在立法院宣誓 發表就職甚至是"},{"start":11715.959,"end":11743.385,"text":"演說,這樣就是可以等於是這個總統也可以像是總統國情報告的一環之一能不能有這樣的這個常識這也是未來在法制設計上可以去思考的那不論是朝小野大或朝大野小都是有這個全民總統的期許或者是自許那對於有這樣的憲政慣例或者這樣的這個總統會來立法院的這樣"},{"start":11746.377,"end":11750.285,"text":"的想像之後呢我們再來談一問一答及問及答跟統問統答的問題現行呢憲法徵修條文"},{"start":11754.326,"end":11755.467,"text":"職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":11785.166,"end":11795.231,"text":"後面總統發表完之後然後由各個黨來這個投票的選投票站不站成他的國會"},{"start":11796.813,"end":11819.09,"text":"認不認可他的國會報告之外呢我這裡想要提出一個新的這個想法或建議其實我們可以每年對於這個立法院委員來評鑑優良的委員評鑑優良的三位委員可以在國情報告的口頭國情報告後進行口頭的回應那可以展現一下這個理性問政的風氣使這個大院的理性風氣更為興盛然後第二題關於現在這個"},{"start":11825.814,"end":11852.791,"text":"立法院行使人事同意權要不要予以裁法我們之前也有看過提名同意權的時候要不要擴大先前總統在行使同意權像是司法院大法官或司法院院長的時候也有提名省界小組的事前做法事後其實立法院也可以參考這樣的設計擴大邀集各界人士形成一個雙重法官的機制"},{"start":11853.922,"end":11874.033,"text":"特別是我們先前就有一些先前有案例就是司法正副院長重新提名的事件風波如果有更完善的實質聽證制度就可以避免流於刑事至於說要不要有虛偽不實受提名的審查人要不要有裁法或刑法刑事責任的問題"},{"start":11874.974,"end":11877.055,"text":"公職人員的財產申報法也是走這樣的行政法規定"},{"start":11895.021,"end":11904.727,"text":"如果提名人有虛偽或提供不實資訊現行法已經有這個行事的偽造文書或是公務人員登載不實有相關的法制可以進行行事的訴追"},{"start":11906.089,"end":11911.435,"text":"質詢權 質詢權經常被在野黨或小黨作為議事抗爭的有效工具現行立院質詢的場面經常是高聲辱罵或甚至咆哮火爆的場景實在不是不時"},{"start":11925.451,"end":11950.449,"text":"實在不是憲政的慘鬼啦那針對這樣的憲政慘鬼是不是要發動國家刑法權我個人是有所保留的我個人認為是用行政科則或行政法這個行政法環的便宜足夠然後再一下移送如果移送減掉的話這個關於國會藐視藐視國會的這個概念定義會有政治上的困境然後在後續的行政訴訟或行事訴訟也會產生這個交錯的困難"},{"start":11953.553,"end":11983.196,"text":"所以在制度設計上一是強調行政科則、質詢權、調查權跟監察的彈劾權相互配套是較為妥善那最後一個現在這個調查權的部分釋之五八五已經有所明示不過對於更仔細的規範其實是要有一個相對應的完善的法制因為這個五八五已經是20年前20年後如果有一個相對應的法制是更值得借鏡的"},{"start":11989.852,"end":12001.962,"text":"現行的草案以專法的形式對照像德國有國會調查委員會執行法對比現行的法案可能會有一些少數黨"},{"start":12003.823,"end":12028.19,"text":"團 成立調查委員會能不能成立的問題以及國會調查的憲政爭議可不可以在裏面有一個條文是可以直接提起憲法訴訟的救濟途徑對於整個憲政分際的爭議以及國會調查會產生的密件密等的以及私人的地方可不可以有一個條文讓法院來相關的定奪最後是否要準用這個刑事訴訟的方法"},{"start":12028.51,"end":12028.97,"text":"聖信源教授發言請上台"},{"start":12054.383,"end":12055.224,"text":"主席以及在座的大家"},{"start":12085.287,"end":12105.78,"text":"我是政治學者,所以說我會比較從政治的角度來看這個事情。回顧過去,我發現到立法院其實經過了幾波的重要的改革。每一次這個重要的改革,都是在草野的席次相距不是太大的時候。"},{"start":12107.465,"end":12123.645,"text":"第一波改革是在第三屆的屆末1999年1月第二波的國會改革是在2002年的1月都是在草野其實相差不是太多的時候"},{"start":12134.417,"end":12154.289,"text":"提供了國會進行改革的一個非常好的機會這一波的國會改革我想大家可能都把焦點其實是放在國會怎麼樣對行政加以監督的這個角度來看關於這個我覺得當然是非常的重要而且非常的有必要"},{"start":12156.611,"end":12174.058,"text":"過去有一個非常重要的立法學者,楊日清教授他認為因為立法院對行政權監督的效率不彰因此立法院可以說起來像是一個跛腳國會"},{"start":12178.47,"end":12179.712,"text":"立法院職權行使法相關法案"},{"start":12199.634,"end":12199.994,"text":"公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":12220.413,"end":12244.701,"text":"立法史上其實有幾次但是我們知道說那些是提過幾次但是真的都沒有過所以我要說的是其實就倒閣權來講會被提的倒閣權倒閣案其實是不會過的那真的會過的人就一定不會提出來所以倒閣權說句實話是不好用的一個權利"},{"start":12255.186,"end":12263.37,"text":"如果說朝小野大,如果說執政黨掌握很多的立委席次的話,其實他的一個問題就是說"},{"start":12275.865,"end":12302.752,"text":"可能因為他掌握了穩定的國會多數所以說有的時候行政官員可能會對於立法院的這個質詢其實不是非常的用心可能有點掉以輕心或者是說當立法委員向行政機關索取一些相關的資料的時候行政機關有的時候好像是有點三催四起這都看起來就是說目前的這個"},{"start":12304.472,"end":12332.926,"text":"立法院的行政監督權其實是很不彰的所以是有需要去很好的去加強的那今天我就這個主題其實我大概就討論兩個重點第一個就是說有關於這個立法院的調查權的問題那當然我想在座的還有這個很多的這個立法院的提案其實我們都知道說立法院的調查權確實有它的必要那但是呢"},{"start":12333.786,"end":12354.756,"text":"自從5.25釋字解釋出來之後其實已經經過20年的時間到現在都還沒有把它法制化那為什麼呢?我想是因為其實就是大家對於立法院有調查權這件事其實有比較多的疑慮所以到現在它還沒有正式的法制化"},{"start":12357.228,"end":12371.922,"text":"所以 調查權正式的法制化當然有其必要那個內容應該是什麼我仔細的看一下這個4-585我發現其實它對於相關的內容講得非常的清楚"},{"start":12373.683,"end":12397.35,"text":"我提供了一點書面的資料 大家可以參考那我要簡單的來講就是說其實4585號對於立法院行使調查權的解釋其實是很清楚他已經講到說本期固有之權能自得享有一定之調查權立法院調查權乃立法院行使其憲法之權所必要之輔助性權利"},{"start":12401.193,"end":12408.623,"text":"對於調查權可以行使的範圍和限制585上也講得很清楚遇到爭議要怎麼處理調查權的行使方式"},{"start":12414.451,"end":12429.7,"text":"其實585號其實都有做了非常詳盡的一個解釋那我覺得呢 這個大院呢 它的主要的做法應該就是說 怎麼樣將這個解釋文 然後把它給法制化成為這個 就是"},{"start":12430.32,"end":12430.9,"text":"可以去實際應用的條文"},{"start":12456.952,"end":12459.173,"text":"《立法院職權行使法案》"},{"start":12487.641,"end":12511.119,"text":"那我想其實就是相關的一些規範在這個五八五四字其實已經非常的清楚我覺得可以往這個方向來走那可以做的 調查權可以做的部分其實很多我想到的 譬如說對於重大法案的制定的時候是不是可以召開周提會直接過很快 好"},{"start":12519.697,"end":12546.467,"text":"接著我還談另外一個問題我要談的問題是有關於總統赴立法院國情報告是不是應該常態化的問題對這個問題其實我的立場是我覺得不即問即答我當然也覺得是不為什麼理由因為基本上剛剛其實也聽了很多學者專家講基本上我們的制度其實是總統其實是沒有要對立法院負責的"},{"start":12547.367,"end":12574.586,"text":"要對立法院負責的是行政院所以說其實總統到立法院進行國情報告他是照徵修條文來講他是德他不是因那這個德其實他給了不管是總統或立法院其實都有一個自由衡量的空間那個衡量的空間不只是總統也是立法院的"},{"start":12576.357,"end":12577.084,"text":"對不起好"},{"start":12581.001,"end":12589.685,"text":"好,那我要講的是其實在美國或是在法國施行總統的國情諮問權的這些國家他們施行的結果其實總統的國情諮問或國情報告從來不是國會權力的彰顯相反的其實是總統權力的彰顯因為在國情諮問的時候總統可以利用機會"},{"start":12607.213,"end":12607.413,"text":"總統國情報告"},{"start":12631.482,"end":12632.083,"text":"林騰耀教授發言"},{"start":12665.46,"end":12688.257,"text":"謝謝主席各位朋友大家午安我看今天這個公聽會都是聚焦在這個公聽會前半段就是立法院職權行使法相關法案這個問題其實國會的改革必須要了解立法院是什麼這個來龍去脈要知道"},{"start":12689.602,"end":12716.974,"text":"立法院承接了國民大會 跟監察院的很多職權但是在修憲的時候 根本沒有配套處理所以很多的職權 現在國會沒辦法 唯一的國會竟然不能行使調查權這不是天大的笑話嗎唯一的國會竟然可以被公然藐視大家還不生氣嗎今天這個啟動國會改革啊"},{"start":12719.693,"end":12746.463,"text":"我要奉勸民進黨不要背離初衷八年多前你怎麼講的我要敬告這個藍白兩黨不要劃地制限應該重視國會 立法院是現在唯一的國會必須要捐錢他的機能我有很多文章在上面 如果大家可以參考一下"},{"start":12747.472,"end":12771.149,"text":"所以我在這裡要公開的譴責蔡英文因為談到了國會改革你就會想到她講過多少話所以如果未來在憲政史上有人說她是敗壞國會機能的憲政女妖的話我相信有很多人會贊同"},{"start":12772.885,"end":12801.068,"text":"現在我們講到蔡英文她怎麼講國會改革我的文章請大家參閱一下她說呢在2015年8月16號在高雄一個百公百業社團後援會受政大禮的時候她講的話她說民進黨不會因為有機會急政就排斥國會的制衡"},{"start":12802.727,"end":12829.049,"text":"國會對行政部門的監督力量一定要有力而專業好 但沒有做到他結果8年以後啊這個他當了總統他說他不會害怕國會監督因為我不會是一個獨斷獨行的總統也不會是一個季節民意的總統更不會是一個一黨之師的總統為父一黨之師的總統這句話全面顛倒"},{"start":12832.619,"end":12832.699,"text":"2015年12月8號"},{"start":12854.352,"end":12882.587,"text":"參議員在臨時書上表示 如果立法院不能透過制度性的改革真正落實人民的國會 開放的國會 專業的國會改革停滯 效力不彰的情況依然會一再上演 現在不是這個情況嗎他當了總統8年 現在不是這個情況嗎所以 我想 現在認為 國會改革必須要做的是什麼事情呢"},{"start":12883.817,"end":12911.662,"text":"必須要震衰起碧一定要重視立法院是唯一的國會人民應該要給他更多的權力因為只剩下一線生機了監察院等於是沒有了監察院已經不是民意機關了國民大會沒有了行政權掌握在總統手上老百姓沒有半分的武器只剩下立法院"},{"start":12913.479,"end":12933.595,"text":"所以今天要振興立法院的這個機能必須要做到下面我講的幾點第一點 立法院一定要開會立法院不要再像今年繼續在鬼混9月1號就報到 報到就開始領薪水不開議是什麼意思"},{"start":12938.823,"end":12964.733,"text":"所以我這裡文章有寫給你一定是立法院執行法一定要明文規定9月1號報到那天就開始開議還在那邊演這個大進場國家已經到現在危難的情況之下還在演這個很多好戲所以第一個一定要認真的開會及時開會而且我寫文章寫過了68條很清楚啊你必須要怎麼"},{"start":12966.409,"end":12993.465,"text":"馬上開會而且不夠時間不夠時間的話就延長啊憲法有規定為什麼不能延長開會然後你會看到這個立法院的這個開會的人數真是好奇怪一般的社團是二分之一才能開會啊立法院的三分之一就可以開會這種條文還不改禍害非常大"},{"start":12994.755,"end":13023.755,"text":"第三個就是很重要的立法院的職權的行使就是要辯論嘛 預算也沒辯論更可怕的是預算不依照時程去審議現在我的昨天年後報那篇文章已經寫得很清楚了113年度現在已經進行到現在第四個月預算法規定是在11月底去年的11月底就是要預決這個中央政府的預算"},{"start":13025.425,"end":13045.601,"text":"現在中央政府的政府預算勉強在12月通過了但是最重要比中央政府預算多了兩倍的那個國營事業跟非營利基金的預算6兆2000多億現在還沒通過啊拖了4個月啊這個立法院第二次政黨輪替了這點還不講話"},{"start":13049.489,"end":13074.246,"text":"這些立法委員一定要知道、深深體會到自己是人民的代表你一定要行使人民對你重要的一個所賦予的權利另外很多的就是不只這個開會人數我這個也寫過了就是開會的程序開會的程序絕對不能夠亂"},{"start":13077.179,"end":13104.35,"text":"被亂調 現在有一個制度叫國事論壇 國事論壇在那邊講誰在聽啊 到現在幾個立委幾個法制委全部都不在每次的公聽會都是這個樣子 現在主席是立委 其他立委都不見了他有在聽嗎 我常常在上次已經講過了 不要把你們邀請的專家學者當作耍猴子在那邊耍"},{"start":13105.68,"end":13132.48,"text":"而且很多人呢今天來了以後我今天就很生氣看到全國有多少律師事務所啊為什麼只有萬國律師事務所有兩位在這裡啊我不曉得這是怎麼安排的啊所以這裡面會造成偏聽很多的立法委員必須要自己要去瞭解你在邀請的對象必須要能夠是不是廣納或是隨便政黨隨便推薦"},{"start":13134.376,"end":13139.22,"text":"你自己也去找啊 為什麼一定要聽政黨推薦啊"},{"start":13140.796,"end":13168.783,"text":"所以很多的事情今天這個憲政教育很多事情非常重要有空我再講憲政的三個基礎一個就是公義政治一個是法治政治一個就是責任政治最要緊就是責任政治所以今天所有的問題一定要依照責任政治來處理邀請總統來或是行使調查權回復到責任政治的精神"},{"start":13170.993,"end":13177.397,"text":"主席,各位先進,我是最後一位發言人,對不對?沒錯吧?"},{"start":13197.509,"end":13222.101,"text":"有一位還在路上,看看有沒有辦法趕過來我盡快把他講完,希望大家趕快結束先暫停一下,就跟林教授報告一下因為今天其實有一些委員趕回他們的轄區因為今天早上地震,那有一些救災或有一些人真的都趕回去了還有助理,公聽會一定要的"},{"start":13231.607,"end":13233.069,"text":"尊重委員自己的決定"},{"start":13234.741,"end":13257.988,"text":"好那接下來我們就請葛主任繼續好謝謝大家我非常榮幸有機會受邀來這我看到我以前我是新聞記者我都坐在最後一排那麼在這個立法院採訪了好多年後來我就風派到美國去了所以我今天特別從兩個角度分享第一個是我自己本身研究專長是反貪腐"},{"start":13259.708,"end":13264.829,"text":"我曾在美國國會山莊採訪過五年的新聞記者沒有錯美國什麼都有聽證會認命說謊會處罰有偽證罪有藐視國會罪美國總統要到參眾兩院國情諮問什麼都有這些我們目前通通都沒有"},{"start":13286.872,"end":13305.049,"text":"但我並不是完全全盤接受以下我僅給各位提供幾個情況跟建議供各位參考尤其是我希望能夠跟最後一排的新聞記者同業我們一起分享千萬不要被政黨之間的惡鬥以及影響到我們從事這個新聞判斷的專業"},{"start":13309.386,"end":13332.493,"text":"首先為各位介紹一個概念各位同學想想看各位先進一個想想看我們當老師當久了就是這種惡習老師喜歡講同學但是我們有一個好習慣我們不見得會準時上課但是我們會想辦法一定要準時下課或者是提前下課這是我給各位報告我的承諾"},{"start":13333.573,"end":13342.18,"text":"各位想想看立法院總共有113位委員可是他們要監督的對象光是行政部門30多萬的公務員加上20萬的國軍就有50萬個文武官員113對50萬你怎麼監督"},{"start":13349.466,"end":13372.226,"text":"這會發生我們在學理上面叫做第一個資訊不對稱第二個叫資源不對稱這個是很難監督的所以實務上面在立法院就國會監督行政部門本來就有它先天失調的地方所以後天要不斷的透過法治化來改善這是第一個現象第二個現象我為各位舉一個實際的例子"},{"start":13373.047,"end":13384.472,"text":"我們現在國軍將領的任命案從小英之前前半段的每6個月晉升一次將領現在改成即任即升各位知道會發生什麼狀況嗎"},{"start":13386.493,"end":13386.513,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":13405.18,"end":13424.547,"text":"各位想想看,如果這個機制沒有了之後呢我們是不是必須要增加立法院對高階將領或高階文官的聽證的任命人事任命的這個才能夠延長,延長就是這個一個緩衝期我們知道他到底是不是任,他有沒有出什麼問題,否則的話"},{"start":13426.468,"end":13440.622,"text":"各位想想看,七星將軍,那個司業案的七星將軍騙了還可以升少將燒了那個幾千萬現金的那個軍備局的少將,一樣可以升將軍啊為什麼?因為各位想想看,將來的例子只會層出不窮"},{"start":13442.349,"end":13463.839,"text":"另外一個跟主席有關,主席是檢察官出身,非常資深優秀的檢察官各位知道我們現在歷任廉政署長通通都是檢察官出身可是你知道我做過研究發現,我們連前面幾任檢察官每一任檢察官在政風人員的評價裡面,這是我做的研究是逐年遞減"},{"start":13465.984,"end":13488.993,"text":"各位想想看,檢察官把廉政署長當成一個五日經照的過水的地方可是政風人員卻對他的評價是逐年遞減這個不是發生很奇怪的現象嗎?檢察官照理說他跟法官一樣都同門師兄弟,都是非常難考的優秀人員可是為什麼一旦進到那個衙門去了以後反而得不到下屬的尊重跟肯定呢?"},{"start":13490.124,"end":13508.083,"text":"如果說聯政署長可以到立法院來接受人事上面的聽證審查的話是不是可以在這方面讓政風人員以及其他的新聞記者從旁監督讓他能夠獲得比較適合的任命當然還有一個問題"},{"start":13510.39,"end":13522.097,"text":"我要給各位報告的就是立法院的監督常常不到位為什麼剛剛報告過了資訊不對稱跟資源不對稱我舉個例子也是跟主席有關各位知道"},{"start":13523.735,"end":13546.875,"text":"我們每年都會做委託學者做叫做聯政指標調查也就是說就我們臺灣的26類公務員的清廉度排名清廉度排名做這個調查不曉得主席您知不知道這個事情26類公務員這個民意調查是公布在聯政署的官網上面可是各位要知道"},{"start":13547.967,"end":13576.869,"text":"公布歸公布每年照樣委外而且這個學者都很厲害都很有名這是我們國內的專家專家裡面的專家可是聯政署拒絕讓這26類公務員的排名出現在那個網路裡面主席您知道為什麼嗎因為檢察官跟法官在26類公務員的排名逐年降低他覺得自己面目上掛不去所以他就拒絕讓"},{"start":13579.528,"end":13603.233,"text":"各位想想看,資訊我們有,但是有沒有透明,不透明。資訊有沒有到位,不到位。各位想想看,其實檢察官不需要那麼難過,為什麼?因為在這26位公務員裡面,檢察官跟法官本來是並列的,在前段班,後來慢慢慢慢掉下來。這幾年有一個明顯的現象,法官掉得特別明顯,檢察官其實沒有那麼差,要有自信。"},{"start":13605.121,"end":13623.425,"text":"這告訴我們其實資訊的不對稱到處都存在我今天因為時間有限我想說我給各位直接提出兩個我自己的建議供各位參考第一個是要怎麼樣解決國會的調查權的問題還有國會的立法委員行使職權是不是要擴權的問題"},{"start":13631.716,"end":13637.723,"text":"這個其實不是我們法律能夠解決的是要政治協商就是政治解決也就是說"},{"start":13639.028,"end":13667.038,"text":"有沒有可行是透過政黨協商用最小限度的方式來強化目前的國會的國會的調查權以及立法委員的職權我再講一次透過政黨協商來最小限度的增加注意是最小限度的增加比如說舉例來講具體來講像是國會這個調閱資料權是不是可以加上明確的法則"},{"start":13668.311,"end":13696.897,"text":"也就是說把調查權法制化第二個呢就是想辦法是不是能夠透過讓舉行這個叫做聽證會尤其是高階文武官員聽證會加入了作證有罰則就是偽證罪處罰作證偽證但是不處罰不說話因為你有保持緘默的權利就是言論自由嘛第二點呢也是我覺得特別要給各位在座新聞同業建議的就是"},{"start":13697.967,"end":13716.344,"text":"我們千萬要注意立法委員行使職權是power不是right他是權力力量的力既然是權力我們特別要在法治國家裡面特別重視要選擇最小成本最低限度的授權還有避免國會濫用公權力"},{"start":13719.028,"end":13744.276,"text":"這三點很重要為什麼呢?他不是RightRight 你可以自我放棄你如果是Power的話就表示你是你的公權力這是你的法定職長法定職長應該是越低最小限度越能夠越能夠避免國會濫權同時呢又能夠給他賦予正當的法律權限來扶國立民以下是我簡單的報告謝謝大家好 謝謝葛主任"},{"start":13747.998,"end":13748.338,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13769.821,"end":13771.482,"text":"主席、各位女士、各位先生大家好"},{"start":13793.66,"end":13821.754,"text":"貴委員會今天舉行：啟動國會改革：立法院職權行使法相關法案的公聽會邀請了學者專家當中有對國會事務長期關注研究的學者也有國會參與實務經驗的前立法委員相信可以帶給本院很寶貴的參考意見以下僅就本次公聽會所涉及的議題簡要說明如下第一有關"},{"start":13823.684,"end":13843.085,"text":"總統國情報告是否常態化及進行的方式依據憲法增修條文第4條第3項及立法院職權行使法第二章之一聽取總統國情報告的規定立法院在每年的集會時得聽取總統國情報告有關立法院邀請總統"},{"start":13844.446,"end":13864.009,"text":"自立法院國情報告之期程現行第15條之二第一項已經有明定他的期程安排由程序委員會來排定雖然目前尚未見有總統自立法院進行國情報告的實例但是相信在本院的共識下完成修法後我們樂見"},{"start":13865.35,"end":13894.009,"text":"未來總統均能常態性來本院進行國情報告增加與國人及全體國民溝通管道與機會至於總統國情報告的提問程序是否比照過去國民大會對總統國情報告的建言採綜合說明的方式進行或者是參考美國及法國的國情之文的實施經驗先不採用及時詢答的方式"},{"start":13895.202,"end":13901.957,"text":"或因應我國國情需要另採行不同的問答模式仍有待委員共事來決定"},{"start":13904.416,"end":13929.246,"text":"有關立法院行使人事同意權是否召開聽證會並對被提名人不實陳述者予以裁罰的部分目前憲法未接的同意權案全院委員會審查前事務上會先經朝野協商決定行使同意權相關事務及時程表並舉行公聽會而法律未接的同意權案"},{"start":13930.286,"end":13949.875,"text":"則或經協商或由主責的常設委員會召集委員主導排案審查不以舉行公聽會為必要未來本院行使人事同意權是否一律召開公聽會對被提名人虛偽不實陳述的法律效果或施以裁罰參照各國國會規範或實務做法"},{"start":13953.8,"end":13968.093,"text":"均有不同,也希望聆聽學者專家更多寶貴的意見第三,被質詢人拒絕出席答覆不提供資料或為虛偽不實陳述,應否負起刑事責任的部分"},{"start":13970.592,"end":13991.939,"text":"外國採內閣制或混合制國家﹐法制上雖賦予了國會議員的執行權﹐為政府官員如有反執行或是詢問虛打的情形﹐對之尚無苛處法律刑責的明文﹐主要是透過公報記錄或錄影轉播向社會公開﹐以追究相關的政治責任"},{"start":13993.038,"end":14017.051,"text":"至於國會聽證調查是屬於準司法程序有關對於違反協助調查義務者施以的強制手段學者間各有不同的看法特別是對於4-585號的解釋內容學者都有不同的看法因此這一個部分仍有不同的意見"},{"start":14019.828,"end":14034.427,"text":"屬於立法形成的自由有待各位委員討論以後再凝聚共識第四點國會行使調查權正當性其範圍界限及人權的保障"},{"start":14035.407,"end":14063.826,"text":"各國政府因為體制不同：國會制度設計也有所區別藉由本次召開公聽會相信各專家學者可提供其他國家的立法力作為我國修法的參考在廣納各界意見並凝聚共識後使本次的修法更增周延基於行政幕僚的立場我們尊重貴委員會舉辦公聽會以及就相關議案審查結果的意見也會依最終院會決議的內容"},{"start":14065.367,"end":14081.805,"text":"配合處理相關行政資源工作,以使本院職權行使更為順遂以上說明,敬請指教,謝謝好,謝謝那我們接下來請行政院做補充說明"},{"start":14098.74,"end":14114.761,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士先生、學者專家今天貴委員會召開《啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案》公聽會本院應邀列席深感榮幸謹就所列的討論提綱提供意見如下"},{"start":14117.128,"end":14141.841,"text":"一、立法院職權行使法系規範貴院行使憲法所賦予的職權之法律有關討論提綱二、部分委員提案徵訂本院部會首長新任官員經全體委員三分之一以上之連署或附議由院會一決得就其人士進行聽證之規定部分"},{"start":14143.401,"end":14163.984,"text":"本院所屬政務人員憲法上規定是由本院的院長提請總統任命之倘增列有關聽證程序恐對本院之人事決定權產生影響是否符合憲法權利分立與制衡的原則敬請慎著"},{"start":14165.905,"end":14184.294,"text":"有關討論提綱2,這個部分依據憲法第57條第一款規定本院有向貴院提出施政方針及施政報告之責立法委員在開會時有向本院院長及各部會首長質詢之權"},{"start":14186.576,"end":14214.799,"text":"行政及立法權分立各有權利義務因本質互相尊重合作之原則進行質詢與備詢的程序所以對備詢者採采法手段因為達成目的所必要採法的要件及標準均須明確以符憲法第23條之比例原則及法律明確性原則之要求"},{"start":14216.021,"end":14220.729,"text":"至於有關如何完善立法、虛偽作證或藐視等刑責責任事項一節參酌"},{"start":14225.481,"end":14248.907,"text":"司法院釋制第585號解釋意旨及憲法法庭113年度憲判制第一號判決意旨國家刑法權之行使應嚴格遵守憲法罪行法定原則且憲法所規定構成的要件應該以一般規範所理解及預見之標準解釋之"},{"start":14251.108,"end":14266.497,"text":"因此是否適合以刑法方式處罰 建起考量刑法牽涉性及最後手段的原則 審慎決定有關討論提案4的部分 那修訂聽證調查權跟原券調閱權的部分"},{"start":14270.285,"end":14270.505,"text":"規定規定規定"},{"start":14286.053,"end":14307.909,"text":"司法院大法官的解釋文都有做相關的規定所以這個調查的範圍跟事項建議還是參照相關司法院解釋的規定在這三項解釋文發生的年代跨越不同的政黨且相關調閱權"},{"start":14310.151,"end":14332.069,"text":"跟調查員的行使均有一致的見解懇請貴院委員依循憲法精神為合憲妥適的修法決策以上意見敬請各位委員先進參考謝謝好 謝謝那我們接下來請司法院補充說明"},{"start":14346.322,"end":14363.329,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進大家好今天奉邀到貴委員會就這個啟動國會改革立法院職權行使法相關法案來代表本院進行報告深感榮幸那以下呢請就本院的意見來加以說明"},{"start":14365.13,"end":14372.014,"text":"提綱① 總統至立法院進行國情報告及其方式的部分"},{"start":14382.807,"end":14383.748,"text":"本院大法官是執掌"},{"start":14402.287,"end":14416.824,"text":"解釋憲法並且組成憲法法庭來行使審判權本院執司司法行政所以不移亦不變就此表示意見那關於提綱二立法院人事同意權的部分"},{"start":14417.264,"end":14417.504,"text":"提綱三﹑四"},{"start":14435.505,"end":14462.693,"text":"立法院聽證及文件調閱權的部分那這是有關立法院行使調查權的部分那本院大法官就國會調查權跟這個調閱文件已經做成了釋字32585633跟729號等相關的解釋各該的解釋意旨可以供各位參考那以上報告敬請各位委員跟先進指教謝謝各位謝謝"},{"start":14466.643,"end":14472.607,"text":"請問在座各位機關代表有其他要補充的?沒有"},{"start":14489.028,"end":14516.671,"text":"那因為地震造成的那個交通影響那現在那個張其路教授他說話已經快到了那是不是因為他從哪裡高雄趕過來的那是不是我們休息五分鐘等這個張教授他跟我們聯繫他已經快到了五分鐘會到那我們就先休息五分鐘好謝謝"},{"start":15021.195,"end":15047.555,"text":"接下來我們介紹到場的是國立中山大學政治經濟學系張其祿教授謝謝張教授今天一早7點多就從高雄出發那因為沿路高鐵開開停停所以這是蠻謝謝張教授過來的那我們接下來就是請張教授發言"},{"start":15076.94,"end":15102.454,"text":"非常謝謝謝謝我們召委那也感謝各位這個與會的專家學者還有各位行政官員大家早安很抱歉因為我是早上7點55出發整整那個高鐵因為地震的關係延誤三個小時很抱歉好那我想當然就是直接談到今天我想我們公聽會的這個重點"},{"start":15104.71,"end":15129.106,"text":"其實就是關於所謂的到底總統是不是要到立法院來諮問或者是國情報告相關的方向其實個人也很榮幸過去在第10屆擔任立法委員我想這個議題其實也歷經了好幾任總統在談這個事情一直都沒有真的實踐"},{"start":15130.467,"end":15130.908,"text":"總統制 議會內閣制"},{"start":15145.229,"end":15159.956,"text":"當然我們也知道中華民國的憲法其實有點是把它一個混合所以我們的概念上是一個半總統制的這樣一個概念那總統如果說按照比較標準的這個美國的總統制的概念其實總統是直接向人民負責"},{"start":15162.078,"end":15188.399,"text":"行政跟立法之間議會內閣制的精神是展現在行政院跟立法院之間但是坦白說我們也長期在憲法加哥運作下我們也長期看到一個問題大家都認為總統是有權但是無責行政院長則是有責無權這個問題其實也一直希望能夠有所改善"},{"start":15189.58,"end":15192.574,"text":"但是我們也知道 如果真的是標準的總統制國家的話"},{"start":15195.58,"end":15217.309,"text":"如果是標準的總統制國家的話那當然這個總統他是定期的透過選舉來向人民負責他並不需要直接到所謂的這個國會那議會內閣制當然他是展現的是所謂的這個責任政治的這個精神所以其實他這個本質上是有很大的這個差距所以如果說我們要設計所謂的當然制度是人設計出來的就是說"},{"start":15219.77,"end":15220.171,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":15227.699,"end":15251.392,"text":"他們大概也是接近總統過去做一個重大國情的表述等於說有點是演講那種性質而不是說去負責任政治所以在這個概念上我們可能要比較重新思考的反而是整個憲政的架構這可能是一個關鍵"},{"start":15253.442,"end":15255.843,"text":"公聽會：立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會"},{"start":15274.531,"end":15277.072,"text":"國民黨和民進黨都表述過 如果真的要走向負責任的政治的話 整個憲政體制大架構的改變才是關鍵"},{"start":15296.038,"end":15311.454,"text":"不過當然現在我們也不能這樣去談這個因為坦白說修憲確實是幾乎在上一屆國會就已經我們就知道就幾乎是完全不可能去落實這件事所以其實總統的這個制度其實現在來看就是說"},{"start":15312.515,"end":15330.595,"text":"也只能大概就是說因為我們知道在徵修條文裡面其實他也是寫的是非常的籠統那我們現在目前如果透過就是說我們修這個立法委員的這個職權行使法如果把它修的好像是他真的要必須來完全負責的話"},{"start":15331.676,"end":15342.175,"text":"那其實可能也會有一個在憲法解釋上或者甚至以後可能是違憲的這個狀況會出現所以這也不是說會不會發生所以其實在制度的設計上我只能說"},{"start":15343.655,"end":15370.06,"text":"可能這個地方也是要挺審慎的那因為目前總統他確實就是我們是由直接民選出來他有這麼大一個民意基礎那他這個負責的對象按照總統那個精神就是全民而不是反而像立法院所以在這個地方設計上但不過立法院還是代表的就是說是一個民意就是說沒有在選舉的時候是最高民意的這個概念"},{"start":15370.66,"end":15373.89,"text":"所以怎麼樣去彰顯這兩者之間有些所謂的關係信號"},{"start":15376.212,"end":15401.699,"text":"我覺得當然還是可以談的 制度上也可以設計但是在制度上設計上是要比較審慎 也並沒有所謂的我們自己透過職權行使法這樣擴大解釋而造成危險 所以我是覺得是這樣當然雙方我覺得說 其實是可以取得一些妥協跟平衡在長期制度上 因為在修憲比較困難的狀況下 如果說能夠搭配一下"},{"start":15403.035,"end":15424.832,"text":"因為我們認真講其實現在的總統職權他還是尤其是在國安的那一個塊狀他基本上他也是實際的等於說是掌握這個權力的人所以其實既然像是國防、外交等等這些國安等等既然總統有這麼大的權力在裡面行使所以當然他怎麼樣去凸顯說讓這個國會也有機會"},{"start":15429.599,"end":15429.679,"text":"主席"},{"start":15443.24,"end":15443.42,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":15474.161,"end":15499.594,"text":"但是我也必須直說一件事就是說目前我當然看了這個各黨所提出的版本當然我只能說就一個比較從學裡面來提醒的就是說當然我們希望能夠往那個方向去加強但是就是說在制度的設計上因為比如說未來這個比如說是藐視國會啦或者是這個尋答不實等等這些或者是反諮詢等等這些就是說它在認定上"},{"start":15500.174,"end":15528.538,"text":"到底要怎麼樣去更精準的去做這樣的一個認定或者是這個判斷以免到時候可能會說那到底現在是要用什麼方式那當然現在可能看起來比較不是是用一個行政法的方式而不一定是用刑法的方式那但是其實當然這兩者都還是有一點點這個會碰到的這個問題因為坦白說刑法那就更困難了因為他幾乎還要有個判決那誰來界定比如行政單位"},{"start":15529.238,"end":15529.438,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15551.71,"end":15551.77,"text":"國會職權行使法"},{"start":15567.572,"end":15590.062,"text":"國會議員他的監督有很多的層面 除了立法之外比如預算的監督 但是我只要舉一個最小的一個實例就比如我們在預算監督的時候 其實我們每次都有很多的凍結案可是每次到凍結案我發現 他在解凍的那個過程幾乎在委員會中 有的時候就是念過去就好了甚至也沒有人再去關心了 所以那個的其實他是相當鬆散的"},{"start":15591.303,"end":15619.338,"text":"就是說我是覺得說在我們的法制還沒有辦法更精進之前其實立法委員還是有機會就是藉著就比如說真正就是我們是落實那個比如說預算這個解凍或者是去了解的那個過程而不是說讓這個到時候雖然我們暗示提了很多有時候甚至是暗海的策略可是到時候真正在做這個詳細的去解讀說到底這個行政單位是不是有這個符合"},{"start":15619.918,"end":15620.118,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15633.519,"end":15653.191,"text":"當然我們個人還是會主張當然國會現在目前整體的這個監督但是現在是一個契機也是事實因為現在在野的黨可能在整個國會也是算是多數所以其實剛好不像上一屆國會其實上一屆國會確實它有在監督上因為反而碰上了很大的這個障礙跟困難"},{"start":15654.372,"end":15669.006,"text":"所以我是覺得說這一次既然已經各黨也派也都提出來這一次國會改革的這種這些重要的法案我覺得值得深思也值得往這個方向走那另外的話就是說那至於只有總統的這個部分那它涉及這整個憲政的這個架構當然長期我們也是呼籲啦所以朝野政黨"},{"start":15673.49,"end":15674.65,"text":"謝謝張教授很謝謝各位今天到場的發言"},{"start":15700.143,"end":15728.29,"text":"今天公聽會的發言就到此告一個段落感謝所有與會者從不同的面向提供很多寶貴的意見今天各位的發言跟內容以及書面的意見以及審法會委員所提的書面資料均會列入記錄刊登公報並且做成公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及本日初列席人員參考今天"},{"start":15729.37,"end":15729.55,"text":"公聽會 結束"}]}},{"id":"15787","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15787","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddbb5d33df7eda7d076adffd4dccc8d5f93be8d109af184be4bdbe0a91feb51e315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會召開「道路交通管理處罰條例」修法公聽會（事由：召開「道路交通管理處罰條例」修法公聽會）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-03","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-04-03T08:30:35+08:00","end_time":"2024-04-03T14:05:00+08:00","duration":20065,"影片長度":"05:34:25","委員發言時間":"08:30:35 - 14:05:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1098.6609687500002,"end":1099.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1110.4565937500001,"end":1111.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1838.2584687500002,"end":1841.4815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1846.86471875,"end":1866.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1874.3878437500002,"end":1903.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1903.98659375,"end":1908.1209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1908.7959687500002,"end":1914.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2024.35596875,"end":2028.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2029.2159687500002,"end":2042.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2042.8172187500002,"end":2059.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2060.02971875,"end":2063.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2064.43409375,"end":2080.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2081.1572187500005,"end":2113.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3329.45159375,"end":3333.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3333.90659375,"end":3357.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3358.2234687500004,"end":3360.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3360.3834687500002,"end":3361.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3361.32846875,"end":3362.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3362.18909375,"end":3364.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3365.0240937500002,"end":3397.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3398.0653437500005,"end":3400.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3400.51221875,"end":3407.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3570.1228437500004,"end":3570.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3572.94096875,"end":3574.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3574.86471875,"end":3575.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3576.1640937500006,"end":3581.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3581.54721875,"end":3582.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3583.06596875,"end":3610.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3611.5509687500007,"end":3616.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3617.2715937500006,"end":3617.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3620.19096875,"end":3627.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3627.3122187500003,"end":3634.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3635.5303437500006,"end":3641.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3642.4490937500004,"end":3652.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3652.86096875,"end":3656.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3657.06284375,"end":3660.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3660.6065937500007,"end":3663.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3663.5428437500004,"end":3667.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3667.96409375,"end":3669.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3669.97221875,"end":3677.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3678.1228437500004,"end":3683.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3683.28659375,"end":3693.3947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3693.78284375,"end":3700.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3701.2247187500006,"end":3701.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3702.6590937500005,"end":3703.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3703.9753437500003,"end":3706.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3706.6247187500003,"end":3707.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3707.5865937500002,"end":3709.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3709.98284375,"end":3713.6447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3714.69096875,"end":3715.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3716.49659375,"end":3717.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3718.9940937500005,"end":3721.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3722.0653437500005,"end":3725.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3725.3897187500006,"end":3732.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3732.9665937500004,"end":3736.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3736.5947187500005,"end":3738.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3740.66159375,"end":3742.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3743.12534375,"end":3743.9015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3744.4415937500007,"end":3744.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3744.50909375,"end":3744.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3744.93096875,"end":3747.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3748.01909375,"end":3749.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3751.9678437500006,"end":3756.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3759.0890937500008,"end":3765.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3767.0878437500005,"end":3771.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3773.6690937500007,"end":3778.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3780.0309687500003,"end":3784.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3785.86971875,"end":3791.9953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3794.3409687500007,"end":3800.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3803.0822187500007,"end":3805.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3805.7147187500004,"end":3807.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3810.33846875,"end":3813.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3816.1603437500007,"end":3821.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3822.25221875,"end":3824.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3824.8678437500002,"end":3825.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3825.39096875,"end":3828.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3829.79534375,"end":3831.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3832.7653437500003,"end":3834.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3835.88721875,"end":3839.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3842.45159375,"end":3846.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3849.25221875,"end":3850.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3851.1590937500005,"end":3853.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3855.4453437500006,"end":3857.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3860.2715937500006,"end":3861.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3861.67221875,"end":3864.9797187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3866.26221875,"end":3871.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3871.7634687500004,"end":3872.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3873.61971875,"end":3875.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3876.3028437500006,"end":3884.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3884.57159375,"end":3889.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3891.6759687500007,"end":3898.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3900.3834687500002,"end":3903.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3905.73284375,"end":3909.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3910.1540937500004,"end":3912.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3914.9297187500006,"end":3919.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3923.45159375,"end":3925.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3925.7128437500005,"end":3932.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3934.1672187500008,"end":3938.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3939.48284375,"end":3942.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3943.7353437500005,"end":3945.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3947.6672187500008,"end":3949.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3950.1140937500004,"end":3951.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3951.4303437500002,"end":3953.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3953.77596875,"end":3953.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3953.9953437500008,"end":3956.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3956.40846875,"end":3961.5890937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3961.9772187500002,"end":3962.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3963.0740937500004,"end":3964.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3966.8709687500004,"end":3968.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3969.8747187500003,"end":3970.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3970.8703437500008,"end":3971.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3972.0684687500006,"end":3973.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3974.9372187500003,"end":3977.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3988.77471875,"end":3989.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3990.1415937500005,"end":4006.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4006.7634687500004,"end":4007.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4007.9953437500008,"end":4009.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4009.8009687500007,"end":4013.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4014.5597187500007,"end":4023.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4023.5203437500004,"end":4025.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4026.33846875,"end":4027.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4028.1103437500005,"end":4049.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4050.43596875,"end":4053.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4054.1315937500003,"end":4058.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4058.45159375,"end":4065.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4066.70346875,"end":4071.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4071.6984687500008,"end":4079.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4080.1022187500002,"end":4080.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4080.9797187500008,"end":4086.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4086.3797187500004,"end":4088.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4089.4172187500008,"end":4097.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4098.1415937500005,"end":4107.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4107.94596875,"end":4114.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4114.999718749999,"end":4119.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4120.55159375,"end":4126.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4127.95971875,"end":4134.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4135.14846875,"end":4135.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4136.194718750001,"end":4138.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4139.097218749999,"end":4145.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4145.93159375,"end":4147.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4147.99034375,"end":4150.065968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4150.217843750001,"end":4151.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4152.597218749999,"end":4153.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4153.60971875,"end":4157.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4157.91284375,"end":4160.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4160.325968749999,"end":4162.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4163.63346875,"end":4165.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4165.9959687499995,"end":4169.472218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4169.92784375,"end":4171.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4171.919093750001,"end":4173.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4174.214093750001,"end":4174.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4175.935343749999,"end":4178.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4178.87159375,"end":4183.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4183.61346875,"end":4184.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4184.575343750001,"end":4185.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4185.95909375,"end":4187.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4188.135968750001,"end":4195.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4196.11784375,"end":4197.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4197.77159375,"end":4198.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4198.69971875,"end":4200.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4201.4334687499995,"end":4203.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4203.593468749999,"end":4205.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4203.62721875,"end":4207.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4210.14096875,"end":4211.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4213.077218750001,"end":4214.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4218.86534375,"end":4219.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4225.27784375,"end":4226.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4226.2059687500005,"end":4226.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4228.14659375,"end":4236.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4236.58409375,"end":4250.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4251.0965937500005,"end":4252.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4253.239718750001,"end":4256.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4256.665343750001,"end":4257.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4257.71159375,"end":4261.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4262.1834687499995,"end":4268.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4269.3553437499995,"end":4272.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4272.89909375,"end":4273.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4273.69221875,"end":4274.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4275.548468749999,"end":4276.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4276.544093750001,"end":4281.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4282.585343750001,"end":4287.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4287.698468750001,"end":4288.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4288.812218749999,"end":4299.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4300.27034375,"end":4300.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4301.26596875,"end":4307.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4308.083468750001,"end":4315.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4317.34784375,"end":4323.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4324.28346875,"end":4331.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4331.624093750001,"end":4337.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4337.614718750001,"end":4367.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4368.58034375,"end":4378.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4379.1103437500005,"end":4386.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4386.53534375,"end":4389.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4390.0115937499995,"end":4401.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4402.27971875,"end":4403.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4403.950343750001,"end":4411.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4411.98284375,"end":4416.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4416.6572187500005,"end":4447.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4448.1122187500005,"end":4450.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4450.997843749999,"end":4455.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4455.554093750001,"end":4461.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4461.91596875,"end":4464.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4464.76784375,"end":4465.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4465.9490937499995,"end":4470.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4470.57284375,"end":4516.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4517.147843750001,"end":4520.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4522.159718749999,"end":4535.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4535.423468749999,"end":4560.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4561.19159375,"end":4592.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4592.427218750001,"end":4599.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4600.71284375,"end":4602.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4603.1259687500005,"end":4609.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4610.280968749999,"end":4617.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4618.33034375,"end":4637.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4637.753468749999,"end":4646.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4646.984093749999,"end":4650.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4650.66284375,"end":4669.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4669.69784375,"end":4671.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4671.132218750001,"end":4684.159718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4684.66596875,"end":4688.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4688.429093750001,"end":4693.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4694.099093750001,"end":4705.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4705.776593750001,"end":4710.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4711.27784375,"end":4714.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4714.75409375,"end":4728.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4729.6884687500005,"end":4733.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4733.519093750001,"end":4747.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4747.98096875,"end":4762.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4762.9490937499995,"end":4785.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4786.6415937500005,"end":4790.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4791.872843749999,"end":4792.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4792.919093750001,"end":4801.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4802.470343749999,"end":4802.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4803.3309687500005,"end":4803.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4804.124093750001,"end":4805.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4805.237843750001,"end":4811.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4811.5322187500005,"end":4817.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4817.92784375,"end":4824.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4824.593468749999,"end":4829.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4829.97659375,"end":4856.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4857.280343750001,"end":4876.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4877.108468750001,"end":4889.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4889.44409375,"end":4912.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4913.288468750001,"end":4919.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4920.325343750001,"end":4930.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4931.36159375,"end":4932.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4932.981593750001,"end":4933.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4934.50034375,"end":4938.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4938.56721875,"end":4942.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4943.25846875,"end":4944.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4944.52409375,"end":4946.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4948.439093749999,"end":4948.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4948.4559687500005,"end":4948.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4949.45159375,"end":4952.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4953.34971875,"end":4955.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4957.872218750001,"end":4958.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4959.6103437500005,"end":4961.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4961.17971875,"end":4964.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4967.8622187500005,"end":4974.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4977.835343750001,"end":4982.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4987.04909375,"end":4991.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4992.702218750001,"end":4993.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4994.372843749999,"end":5000.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5002.202843749999,"end":5006.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5006.72534375,"end":5008.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5009.72909375,"end":5013.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5013.94784375,"end":5014.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5014.859093749999,"end":5015.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5016.7997187500005,"end":5019.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5022.06471875,"end":5026.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5027.0428437499995,"end":5029.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5030.13096875,"end":5032.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5032.577843749999,"end":5033.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5034.231593750001,"end":5036.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5036.59409375,"end":5038.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5038.956593750001,"end":5041.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5042.44971875,"end":5043.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5044.7615937499995,"end":5047.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5048.27159375,"end":5051.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5051.96721875,"end":5053.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5054.21159375,"end":5065.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5065.720343749999,"end":5072.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5072.50409375,"end":5076.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5077.33034375,"end":5078.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5078.612843750001,"end":5079.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5080.9247187500005,"end":5083.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5084.08034375,"end":5090.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5091.30284375,"end":5094.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5094.407843749999,"end":5098.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5099.13284375,"end":5101.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5101.41096875,"end":5117.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5118.083468750001,"end":5120.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5120.68221875,"end":5123.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5124.1415937500005,"end":5125.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5125.491593750001,"end":5128.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5128.47846875,"end":5128.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5129.64284375,"end":5131.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5132.22471875,"end":5136.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5137.5740937499995,"end":5138.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5138.9072187500005,"end":5141.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5142.029093749999,"end":5146.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5146.78784375,"end":5148.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5151.42846875,"end":5175.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5180.6053437499995,"end":5266.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5267.54534375,"end":5268.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5269.13159375,"end":5303.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5303.82659375,"end":5316.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5317.09034375,"end":5321.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5322.30471875,"end":5322.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5322.99659375,"end":5334.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5335.635968750001,"end":5340.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5340.698468750001,"end":5350.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5350.772843750001,"end":5351.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5352.25784375,"end":5356.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5356.61159375,"end":5366.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5367.44534375,"end":5372.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5374.161593750001,"end":5374.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5375.59596875,"end":5378.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5378.903468750001,"end":5385.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5385.923468749999,"end":5389.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5390.142218749999,"end":5393.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5393.97284375,"end":5394.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5395.204718749999,"end":5398.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5399.575343750001,"end":5406.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5407.00034375,"end":5410.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5411.06721875,"end":5412.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5412.95721875,"end":5430.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5431.823468750001,"end":5433.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5434.1522187499995,"end":5435.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5436.29534375,"end":5436.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5438.337218750001,"end":5441.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5441.7459687499995,"end":5443.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5449.23846875,"end":5454.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5454.57096875,"end":5462.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5462.654093749999,"end":5468.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5469.083468750001,"end":5469.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5470.97346875,"end":5472.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5474.12909375,"end":5474.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5474.989718750001,"end":5475.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5475.782843749999,"end":5497.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5498.20971875,"end":5501.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5502.310343749999,"end":5509.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5513.41409375,"end":5518.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5518.79721875,"end":5557.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5557.7615937499995,"end":5577.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5577.91034375,"end":5598.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5599.22346875,"end":5612.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5613.39846875,"end":5618.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5618.8153437500005,"end":5635.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5636.44971875,"end":5646.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5646.52409375,"end":5648.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5649.20721875,"end":5649.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5649.67971875,"end":5660.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5662.23471875,"end":5662.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5664.175343750001,"end":5664.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5664.5634687500005,"end":5680.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5680.679093750001,"end":5686.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5686.8553437499995,"end":5687.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5688.10409375,"end":5697.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5697.11534375,"end":5703.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5703.882218750001,"end":5704.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5705.50221875,"end":5706.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5706.2615937499995,"end":5712.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5711.83034375,"end":5727.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5728.31721875,"end":5737.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5737.9697187500005,"end":5758.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5759.2997187500005,"end":5760.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5761.1053437499995,"end":5762.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5763.16409375,"end":5767.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5771.753468750001,"end":5772.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5773.8290937500005,"end":5774.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5776.46159375,"end":5778.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5778.94221875,"end":5779.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5779.27971875,"end":5781.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5782.5028437500005,"end":5783.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5784.81471875,"end":6035.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6035.93159375,"end":6083.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6084.278468750001,"end":6088.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6089.44221875,"end":6090.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6090.52221875,"end":6100.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6109.18596875,"end":6118.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6122.010968750001,"end":6128.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6128.8622187500005,"end":6141.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6141.6365937499995,"end":6170.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6171.606593750001,"end":6186.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6186.4228437500005,"end":6187.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6188.616593750001,"end":6189.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6189.966593749999,"end":6192.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6192.784718750001,"end":6195.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6195.687218749999,"end":6221.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6221.573468750001,"end":6231.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6231.7997187500005,"end":6233.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6234.24659375,"end":6236.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6236.946593750001,"end":6252.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6252.96096875,"end":6255.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6256.23471875,"end":6258.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6259.4072187500005,"end":6264.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6264.739718750001,"end":6265.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6266.562218749999,"end":6268.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6269.39721875,"end":6273.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6273.599093750001,"end":6274.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6277.345343750001,"end":6278.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6310.487843750001,"end":6312.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6312.647843750001,"end":6314.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6314.79096875,"end":6317.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6317.895968750001,"end":6343.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6346.43159375,"end":6355.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6356.657843750001,"end":6361.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6362.17596875,"end":6367.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6368.35221875,"end":6372.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6373.583468750001,"end":6378.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6379.304093750001,"end":6392.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6392.87159375,"end":6394.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6394.964093750001,"end":6395.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6396.837218750001,"end":6397.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6397.917218750001,"end":6402.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6403.73909375,"end":6423.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6424.967843750001,"end":6431.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6432.39284375,"end":6432.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6433.00034375,"end":6440.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6441.741593750001,"end":6448.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6449.6728437500005,"end":6469.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6469.78784375,"end":6490.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6491.202218750001,"end":6494.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6495.6572187500005,"end":6500.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6500.702843749999,"end":6502.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6503.385968750001,"end":6517.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6517.5947187500005,"end":6518.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6519.6365937499995,"end":6526.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6527.02784375,"end":6534.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6534.57096875,"end":6535.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6536.562218749999,"end":6540.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6541.08471875,"end":6554.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6554.82096875,"end":6555.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6556.6434687500005,"end":6561.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6561.75659375,"end":6570.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6571.00409375,"end":6571.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6571.071593750001,"end":6579.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6581.12909375,"end":6581.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6581.7197187500005,"end":6583.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6584.200343750001,"end":6584.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6585.71909375,"end":6586.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6587.54159375,"end":6589.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6589.65096875,"end":6590.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6591.3553437499995,"end":6592.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6592.89096875,"end":6593.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6594.10596875,"end":6595.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6595.962218750001,"end":6597.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6598.32471875,"end":6599.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6599.894093750001,"end":6600.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6601.075343750001,"end":6603.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6604.0790937500005,"end":6605.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6605.81721875,"end":6607.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6607.352843750001,"end":6608.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6608.939093750001,"end":6611.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6611.841593749999,"end":6613.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6614.67659375,"end":6615.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6615.604718750001,"end":6617.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6618.52409375,"end":6620.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6621.089093750001,"end":6623.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6623.890343749999,"end":6625.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6626.77596875,"end":6627.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6627.72096875,"end":6628.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6629.560343749999,"end":6630.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6631.0790937500005,"end":6632.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6632.7665937500005,"end":6636.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6637.23846875,"end":6638.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6639.651593750001,"end":6640.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6641.4403437500005,"end":6643.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6643.954718750001,"end":6646.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6646.51971875,"end":6649.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6650.97471875,"end":6652.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6652.47659375,"end":6655.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6655.42971875,"end":6656.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6657.91034375,"end":6658.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6660.28971875,"end":6660.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6662.12909375,"end":6664.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6664.575968749999,"end":6665.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6666.8709687499995,"end":6676.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6677.13096875,"end":6682.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6683.189093750001,"end":6684.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6684.319718750001,"end":6685.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6686.850968750001,"end":6694.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6695.001593750001,"end":6697.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6698.73096875,"end":6703.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6703.2197187500005,"end":6706.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6707.40471875,"end":6711.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6712.247843749999,"end":6713.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6713.78346875,"end":6717.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6717.782843750001,"end":6721.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6722.794718749999,"end":6723.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6724.22909375,"end":6731.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6731.805968750001,"end":6733.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6733.4090937500005,"end":6734.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6735.11346875,"end":6736.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6736.88534375,"end":6738.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6738.25221875,"end":6738.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6739.669718749999,"end":6740.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6741.593468749999,"end":6743.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6744.02346875,"end":6747.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6747.76971875,"end":6748.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6749.187218749999,"end":6750.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6750.77346875,"end":6752.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6753.01784375,"end":6759.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6760.05471875,"end":6760.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6760.307843750001,"end":6761.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6761.92784375,"end":6762.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6762.7040937500005,"end":6773.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6771.44534375,"end":6771.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6777.4022187499995,"end":6784.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6784.253468750001,"end":6822.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6822.47534375,"end":6827.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6827.58846875,"end":6834.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6834.220343750001,"end":6859.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6860.612843750001,"end":6867.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6868.257218750001,"end":6870.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6870.417218750001,"end":6870.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6871.24409375,"end":6877.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6877.52159375,"end":6918.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6918.139718750001,"end":6946.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6946.9959687499995,"end":6953.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6953.67846875,"end":6972.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6972.510968750001,"end":6999.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6999.89909375,"end":7011.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7011.91409375,"end":7012.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7013.02784375,"end":7025.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7026.3759687500005,"end":7033.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7033.581593750001,"end":7039.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7039.79159375,"end":7087.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7087.93596875,"end":7093.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7093.909718750001,"end":7099.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7101.503468750001,"end":7131.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7132.38471875,"end":7161.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7161.7303437499995,"end":7163.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7164.63284375,"end":7166.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7166.894093750001,"end":7167.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7168.37909375,"end":7168.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7169.104718750001,"end":7172.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7173.323468750001,"end":7173.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7174.55534375,"end":7175.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7175.87159375,"end":7177.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7178.2509687500005,"end":7193.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7194.48471875,"end":7194.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7195.42971875,"end":7196.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7196.897843750001,"end":7200.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7200.9647187499995,"end":7207.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7207.545968750001,"end":7209.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7210.36409375,"end":7214.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7215.3084687499995,"end":7230.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7231.37346875,"end":7233.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7234.022843750001,"end":7241.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7241.751593750001,"end":7246.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7246.1728437500005,"end":7247.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7248.0965937500005,"end":7249.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7249.41284375,"end":7250.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7251.57284375,"end":7258.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7258.592843750001,"end":7260.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7260.14534375,"end":7263.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7263.95909375,"end":7264.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7265.427218750001,"end":7271.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7271.92409375,"end":7287.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7287.415343750001,"end":7288.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7288.90034375,"end":7291.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7291.5497187500005,"end":7293.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7293.54096875,"end":7298.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7299.19409375,"end":7302.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7303.22721875,"end":7308.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7309.6903437500005,"end":7311.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7311.968468750001,"end":7334.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7337.905343750001,"end":7338.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7339.03596875,"end":7340.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7340.706593750001,"end":7347.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7356.265343750001,"end":7393.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7394.284718750001,"end":7394.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7395.11159375,"end":7445.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7446.05721875,"end":7453.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7453.17846875,"end":7532.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7533.030968750001,"end":7536.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7536.20346875,"end":7572.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7573.14284375,"end":7592.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7593.07221875,"end":7638.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7638.5165937500005,"end":7660.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7662.10784375,"end":7662.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7662.647843750001,"end":7662.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7663.6434687500005,"end":7664.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7665.364718750001,"end":7666.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7666.84971875,"end":7672.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7673.02596875,"end":7677.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7685.73284375,"end":7687.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7697.714093750001,"end":7717.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7718.014718750001,"end":7719.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7719.887843750001,"end":7741.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7741.97721875,"end":7750.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7750.70159375,"end":7764.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7765.450343750001,"end":7767.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7767.20534375,"end":7770.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7771.204718750001,"end":7774.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7774.93409375,"end":7783.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7784.4178437499995,"end":7786.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7786.864718750001,"end":7797.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7799.13284375,"end":7801.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7802.187218750001,"end":7808.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7808.515343750001,"end":7812.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7812.76784375,"end":7818.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7818.842843750001,"end":7822.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7822.251593750001,"end":7825.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7825.592843750001,"end":7826.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7826.82471875,"end":7842.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7842.6365937499995,"end":7844.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7845.0497187500005,"end":7848.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7848.47534375,"end":7849.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7849.60596875,"end":7853.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7854.077843750001,"end":7854.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7855.66409375,"end":7870.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7871.08784375,"end":7875.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7875.86346875,"end":7877.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7877.82096875,"end":7883.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7883.27159375,"end":7895.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7895.708468750001,"end":7899.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7899.690968750001,"end":7929.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7929.99846875,"end":7965.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7965.94221875,"end":7979.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7980.0497187500005,"end":7981.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7982.36159375,"end":7983.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7984.065968750001,"end":7992.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7993.077218750001,"end":7994.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7994.44409375,"end":7994.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7995.10221875,"end":7997.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7997.295968750001,"end":8015.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8015.807843750001,"end":8016.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8016.39846875,"end":8017.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8018.49096875,"end":8018.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8019.38534375,"end":8021.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8022.10221875,"end":8024.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8025.57846875,"end":8030.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8031.24846875,"end":8032.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8033.2059687500005,"end":8074.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8075.25846875,"end":8076.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8077.907843750001,"end":8078.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8080.65846875,"end":8081.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8082.126593750001,"end":8086.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8087.239718750001,"end":8088.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8089.669718750001,"end":8094.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8094.884093750001,"end":8104.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8104.65471875,"end":8108.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8108.82284375,"end":8119.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8119.4540937500005,"end":8120.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8121.175343750001,"end":8125.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8125.69784375,"end":8129.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8130.30471875,"end":8138.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8138.97846875,"end":8145.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8145.458468750001,"end":8145.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8145.6103437500005,"end":8151.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8152.022843750001,"end":8159.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8157.169718750001,"end":8157.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8157.220343750001,"end":8157.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8159.78534375,"end":8169.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8169.842843750001,"end":8170.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8170.3153437500005,"end":8182.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8182.75221875,"end":8194.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8194.24409375,"end":8199.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8200.082843750002,"end":8201.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8202.512843750003,"end":8203.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8203.727843749999,"end":8217.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8217.88596875,"end":8219.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8219.910968750002,"end":8220.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8221.379093750002,"end":8222.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8222.847218750001,"end":8228.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8229.192218750002,"end":8239.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8239.77284375,"end":8241.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8241.257843750001,"end":8261.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8262.33471875,"end":8267.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8267.515343750001,"end":8274.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8275.09221875,"end":8308.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8309.280968750001,"end":8311.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8311.812218750001,"end":8320.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8320.620968750001,"end":8328.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8328.97409375,"end":8334.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8335.11659375,"end":8353.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8354.30346875,"end":8377.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8377.92846875,"end":8380.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8380.425968750002,"end":8387.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8387.715968750003,"end":8396.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8396.035343750002,"end":8396.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8396.204093750002,"end":8396.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8396.81159375,"end":8396.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8396.84534375,"end":8397.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8397.925343750001,"end":8401.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8401.92471875,"end":8404.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8416.977218750002,"end":8426.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8426.730968750002,"end":8427.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8427.456593750001,"end":8428.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8429.464718750001,"end":8431.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8432.92409375,"end":8436.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8437.159718750001,"end":8438.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8439.57284375,"end":8441.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8442.00284375,"end":8444.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8445.22596875,"end":8446.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8446.559093750002,"end":8448.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8448.95534375,"end":8449.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8450.102843750003,"end":8452.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8452.465343750002,"end":8454.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8454.726593750001,"end":8456.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8457.004718750002,"end":8466.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8466.977843750003,"end":8474.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8475.33096875,"end":8477.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8477.777843750002,"end":8479.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8479.90409375,"end":8480.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8481.27096875,"end":8487.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8488.004093750002,"end":8491.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8491.98659375,"end":8494.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8494.484093750001,"end":8501.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8502.28034375,"end":8504.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8505.452843750001,"end":8506.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8506.48221875,"end":8507.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8507.54534375,"end":8511.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8511.899093750002,"end":8512.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8512.75971875,"end":8515.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8516.03346875,"end":8517.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8517.83909375,"end":8520.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8521.332218750002,"end":8522.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8522.51346875,"end":8523.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8523.84659375,"end":8525.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8525.297843750002,"end":8526.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8526.563468750002,"end":8527.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8527.812218750001,"end":8528.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8528.723468750002,"end":8529.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8530.15784375,"end":8530.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8531.507843750001,"end":8531.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8532.925343750001,"end":8534.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8534.42721875,"end":8540.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8541.29534375,"end":8543.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8543.809718750003,"end":8546.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8547.10034375,"end":8560.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8560.769093750001,"end":8563.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8564.110343750002,"end":8565.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8565.797843750002,"end":8566.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8567.265968750002,"end":8567.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8568.56534375,"end":8569.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8569.78034375,"end":8570.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8570.809718750003,"end":8571.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8572.19346875,"end":8575.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8575.551593750002,"end":8578.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8578.20096875,"end":8580.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8581.06971875,"end":8581.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8582.04846875,"end":8584.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8584.140968750002,"end":8586.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8586.351593750001,"end":8588.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8588.32596875,"end":8588.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8588.39346875,"end":8595.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8595.582218750002,"end":8601.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8602.09596875,"end":8608.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8609.26784375,"end":8614.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8614.75221875,"end":8618.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8618.80221875,"end":8624.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8624.910968750002,"end":8626.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8626.952843750001,"end":8627.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8627.847218750001,"end":8628.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8628.589718750001,"end":8629.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8630.074718750002,"end":8630.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8631.57659375,"end":8632.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8633.58471875,"end":8636.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8637.22971875,"end":8639.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8639.28846875,"end":8640.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8641.617218750001,"end":8642.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8642.950343750003,"end":8643.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8644.18221875,"end":8645.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8646.055343750002,"end":8647.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8648.13096875,"end":8649.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8650.39221875,"end":8652.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8652.754718750002,"end":8653.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8653.598468750002,"end":8654.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8654.83034375,"end":8655.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8655.87659375,"end":8657.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8657.58096875,"end":8658.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8659.065968750001,"end":8660.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8661.023468750001,"end":8661.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8662.305968750003,"end":8667.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8668.06034375,"end":8673.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8674.35471875,"end":8675.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8676.04221875,"end":8677.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8678.640968750002,"end":8680.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8680.429718750001,"end":8683.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8684.175968750002,"end":8687.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8687.770343750002,"end":8688.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8689.15409375,"end":8689.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8690.36909375,"end":8691.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8691.972218750001,"end":8693.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8693.254718750002,"end":8694.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8695.02659375,"end":8705.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8706.07971875,"end":8706.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8706.754718750002,"end":8713.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8713.62284375,"end":8715.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8715.41159375,"end":8716.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8716.67721875,"end":8726.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8726.97096875,"end":8740.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8743.187843750002,"end":8743.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8744.723468750002,"end":8747.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8747.305343750002,"end":8750.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8751.102218750002,"end":8766.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8766.964718750001,"end":8782.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8783.33346875,"end":8787.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8787.88971875,"end":8790.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8790.488468750002,"end":8793.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8793.964718750001,"end":8795.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8796.32721875,"end":8820.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8820.812843750002,"end":8830.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8830.49909375,"end":8831.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8831.359718750002,"end":8852.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8852.79096875,"end":8854.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8855.204093750002,"end":8861.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8861.32971875,"end":8864.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8865.17721875,"end":8891.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8892.362843750001,"end":8895.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8895.50159375,"end":8898.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8899.028468750003,"end":8931.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8932.00221875,"end":8935.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8935.96784375,"end":8936.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8938.22909375,"end":8939.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8940.051593750002,"end":8944.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8944.87784375,"end":8952.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8952.589718750001,"end":8955.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8956.15034375,"end":8956.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8957.01096875,"end":8961.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8961.938468750002,"end":8980.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8980.973468750002,"end":8987.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8987.16659375,"end":8999.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8999.50221875,"end":9005.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9006.184718750003,"end":9021.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9022.215968750003,"end":9056.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9056.25284375,"end":9061.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9061.973468750002,"end":9063.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9063.964718750001,"end":9084.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9084.855968750002,"end":9114.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9116.395343750002,"end":9124.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9123.297218750002,"end":9124.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9124.613468750002,"end":9124.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9124.84971875,"end":9128.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9129.22034375,"end":9130.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9135.227843750003,"end":9137.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9138.19784375,"end":9138.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9138.383468750002,"end":9139.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9139.39596875,"end":9154.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9154.65096875,"end":9158.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9158.32971875,"end":9167.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9167.08784375,"end":9175.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9175.84596875,"end":9188.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9188.82284375,"end":9200.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9200.83784375,"end":9244.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9245.742218750001,"end":9251.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9251.749718750001,"end":9263.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9264.22034375,"end":9266.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9266.363468750002,"end":9277.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9278.125343750002,"end":9308.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9309.344093750002,"end":9310.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9310.99784375,"end":9314.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9314.659718750001,"end":9326.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9326.320343750001,"end":9339.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9340.64721875,"end":9344.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9344.96721875,"end":9345.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9346.87409375,"end":9349.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9350.56971875,"end":9360.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9360.964718750001,"end":9362.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9362.331593750001,"end":9364.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9365.68971875,"end":9370.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9371.34284375,"end":9389.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9390.83346875,"end":9409.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9409.902218750001,"end":9411.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9412.21409375,"end":9413.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9413.78346875,"end":9456.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9456.780968750001,"end":9457.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9458.367218750001,"end":9459.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9459.91971875,"end":9460.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9461.55659375,"end":9464.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9464.712218750003,"end":9482.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9486.93659375,"end":9491.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9492.117218750001,"end":9494.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9494.73284375,"end":9499.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9499.930343750002,"end":9504.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9504.75659375,"end":9506.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9507.08534375,"end":9529.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9529.74846875,"end":9534.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9534.945968750002,"end":9536.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9536.70096875,"end":9539.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9540.51471875,"end":9542.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9542.269718750002,"end":9550.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9551.06159375,"end":9551.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9551.820968750002,"end":9555.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9556.42784375,"end":9556.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9557.76096875,"end":9560.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9561.06846875,"end":9564.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9564.66284375,"end":9568.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9568.93221875,"end":9569.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9569.55659375,"end":9571.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9572.20596875,"end":9581.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9582.297218750002,"end":9585.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9585.250343750002,"end":9587.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9587.899718750003,"end":9592.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9593.097218750001,"end":9599.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9599.20596875,"end":9600.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9600.40409375,"end":9601.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9602.61471875,"end":9603.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9604.504718750002,"end":9618.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9619.01721875,"end":9622.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9622.34159375,"end":9632.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9632.46659375,"end":9633.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9633.52971875,"end":9634.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9634.69409375,"end":9637.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9637.20846875,"end":9639.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9640.16159375,"end":9642.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9642.23721875,"end":9646.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9647.164718750002,"end":9648.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9649.172843750002,"end":9650.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9650.94471875,"end":9653.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9654.50534375,"end":9661.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9661.660343750002,"end":9664.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9665.01846875,"end":9669.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9669.524093750002,"end":9670.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9671.22846875,"end":9673.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9674.02971875,"end":9675.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9676.004093750002,"end":9678.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9678.36659375,"end":9684.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9684.40784375,"end":9704.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9704.910968750002,"end":9706.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9706.649093750002,"end":9712.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9712.72409375,"end":9715.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9716.31846875,"end":9721.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9721.38096875,"end":9727.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9727.87784375,"end":9730.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9730.949093750001,"end":9734.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9734.47596875,"end":9736.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9737.04096875,"end":9743.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9743.706593750001,"end":9746.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9746.558468750001,"end":9749.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9749.680343750002,"end":9750.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9750.65909375,"end":9751.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9752.27909375,"end":9754.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9754.60784375,"end":9756.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9756.91971875,"end":9771.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9772.680968750003,"end":9777.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9778.01346875,"end":9780.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9781.60784375,"end":9784.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9784.45971875,"end":9807.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9808.45596875,"end":9812.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9812.60721875,"end":9814.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9815.40846875,"end":9816.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9816.67409375,"end":9820.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9820.403468750003,"end":9824.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9824.58846875,"end":9826.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9827.38971875,"end":9843.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9844.028468750003,"end":9848.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9848.95596875,"end":9853.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9853.90034375,"end":9861.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9861.325343750003,"end":9863.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9863.468468750001,"end":9874.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9874.875968750002,"end":9877.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9877.812218750001,"end":9879.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9879.887843750003,"end":9881.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9882.21659375,"end":9885.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9885.96284375,"end":9888.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9888.730343750001,"end":9893.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9893.489093750002,"end":9907.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9907.07346875,"end":9907.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9907.32659375,"end":9916.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9917.14784375,"end":9920.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10765.605968750002,"end":10766.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10767.15846875,"end":10774.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10776.16971875,"end":10777.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10784.67471875,"end":10789.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10790.20971875,"end":10825.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10826.355968750002,"end":10829.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10829.64659375,"end":10832.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10833.24096875,"end":10834.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10834.844093750002,"end":10837.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10838.08409375,"end":10839.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10840.46346875,"end":10844.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10845.25596875,"end":10847.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10847.73659375,"end":10851.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10853.59221875,"end":10854.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10855.043468750002,"end":10877.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10878.145343750002,"end":10888.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10888.97909375,"end":10893.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10894.21034375,"end":10911.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10911.33846875,"end":10937.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10938.355343750001,"end":10941.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10942.08471875,"end":10944.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10946.590343750002,"end":10946.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10946.99534375,"end":10954.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10956.394718750002,"end":10956.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10957.390343750001,"end":10958.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10958.68971875,"end":10960.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10961.727218750002,"end":10965.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10965.38909375,"end":10977.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10978.21409375,"end":10981.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10982.26409375,"end":10987.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10988.86221875,"end":10992.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10992.473468750002,"end":10997.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10998.66659375,"end":11005.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11006.15909375,"end":11006.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11007.559718750003,"end":11008.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11009.129093750002,"end":11012.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11013.246593750002,"end":11016.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11018.106593750003,"end":11020.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11020.722218750001,"end":11024.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11024.738468750002,"end":11053.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11054.57346875,"end":11081.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11081.52284375,"end":11083.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11084.273468750001,"end":11091.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11091.242843750002,"end":11096.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11103.224093750003,"end":11104.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11105.92409375,"end":11106.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11106.902843750002,"end":11108.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11109.40034375,"end":11110.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11110.480343750001,"end":11111.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11111.57721875,"end":11112.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11113.230968750002,"end":11114.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11114.58096875,"end":11115.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11117.871593750002,"end":11118.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11118.344093750002,"end":11119.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11119.727843750003,"end":11120.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11120.824718750002,"end":11122.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11122.410968750002,"end":11124.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11125.583468750003,"end":11131.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11132.417843750001,"end":11132.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11133.362843750001,"end":11170.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11170.52159375,"end":11171.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11172.00659375,"end":11172.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11172.546593750001,"end":11173.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11173.37346875,"end":11175.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11175.33096875,"end":11178.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11178.68909375,"end":11236.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11236.40159375,"end":11237.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11238.03846875,"end":11242.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11242.695968750002,"end":11250.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11250.67784375,"end":11262.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11262.844718750002,"end":11263.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11264.17784375,"end":11265.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11266.152218750001,"end":11267.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11267.485343750002,"end":11267.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11268.210968750001,"end":11269.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11269.577843750001,"end":11272.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11272.902218750001,"end":11277.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11278.25159375,"end":11279.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11279.922218750002,"end":11280.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11281.289093750001,"end":11281.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11283.38159375,"end":11285.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11285.254718750002,"end":11293.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11293.30409375,"end":11294.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11295.227843750003,"end":11298.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11298.754718750002,"end":11299.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11300.13846875,"end":11310.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11311.208468750003,"end":11322.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11323.105343750001,"end":11327.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11327.61096875,"end":11331.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11334.27659375,"end":11335.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11335.94721875,"end":11337.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11338.191593750002,"end":11339.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11339.81159375,"end":11341.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11342.17409375,"end":11343.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11344.536593750003,"end":11345.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11345.093468750001,"end":11349.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11349.29534375,"end":11351.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11352.02909375,"end":11358.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11359.09971875,"end":11360.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11360.550968750002,"end":11362.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11362.64346875,"end":11363.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11364.16221875,"end":11366.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11366.828468750002,"end":11371.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11371.367843750002,"end":11377.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11377.274093750002,"end":11381.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11381.745968750001,"end":11382.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11382.555968750003,"end":11383.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11383.922843750002,"end":11389.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11390.06534375,"end":11391.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11391.38159375,"end":11392.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11393.01846875,"end":11409.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11409.977843750003,"end":11412.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11413.21784375,"end":11422.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11422.60034375,"end":11423.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11423.528468750003,"end":11435.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11438.85096875,"end":11438.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11439.27284375,"end":11442.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11442.293468750002,"end":11456.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11456.890343750001,"end":11460.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11461.26096875,"end":11461.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11461.78409375,"end":11472.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11473.02284375,"end":11485.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11485.999718750001,"end":11490.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11491.399718750003,"end":11492.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11493.40784375,"end":11501.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11502.300968750002,"end":11504.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11504.984093750001,"end":11509.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11510.468468750001,"end":11511.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11511.278468750003,"end":11511.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11512.645343750002,"end":11523.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11524.12034375,"end":11524.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11524.829093750002,"end":11526.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11527.12409375,"end":11528.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11529.16596875,"end":11529.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11530.296593750001,"end":11532.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11533.35096875,"end":11537.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11537.77221875,"end":11545.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11545.281593750002,"end":11546.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11546.800343750001,"end":11552.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11552.284718750001,"end":11553.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11555.28846875,"end":11555.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11555.79471875,"end":11556.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11556.368468750003,"end":11557.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11558.207843750002,"end":11566.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11566.45971875,"end":11578.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11578.96409375,"end":11589.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11590.050968750002,"end":11590.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11591.434718750003,"end":11600.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11600.699093750001,"end":11610.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11610.840968750003,"end":11611.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11611.80284375,"end":11612.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11612.91659375,"end":11615.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11616.12284375,"end":11626.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11626.754093750002,"end":11637.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11638.465343750002,"end":11638.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11639.59596875,"end":11639.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11641.367843750002,"end":11650.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11650.817843750003,"end":11664.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11664.368468750003,"end":11671.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11672.62034375,"end":11679.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11680.905968750001,"end":11707.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11707.855343750001,"end":11708.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11709.390968750002,"end":11717.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11718.452843750001,"end":11722.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11722.55346875,"end":11723.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11724.426593750002,"end":11724.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11724.899093750002,"end":11738.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11738.449718750002,"end":11743.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11744.102843750003,"end":11745.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11746.17846875,"end":11758.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11759.864093750002,"end":11761.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11761.956593750001,"end":11762.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11764.335968750001,"end":11765.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11765.719718750002,"end":11766.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11770.613468750002,"end":11771.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11772.199718750002,"end":11774.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11775.203468750002,"end":11778.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11780.23221875,"end":11782.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11783.219093750002,"end":11784.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11785.24409375,"end":11789.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11790.15471875,"end":11794.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11796.17909375,"end":11796.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11797.934093750002,"end":11808.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11808.953468750002,"end":11809.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11809.797218750002,"end":11810.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11811.535343750002,"end":11817.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11818.69034375,"end":11820.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11821.22159375,"end":11826.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11826.80721875,"end":11829.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11830.65471875,"end":11831.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11832.12284375,"end":11833.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11834.215343750002,"end":11839.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11839.98659375,"end":11842.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11842.703468750002,"end":11847.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11847.614093750002,"end":11850.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11850.80346875,"end":11854.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11854.87034375,"end":11859.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11859.679718750001,"end":11863.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11863.442843750003,"end":11865.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11866.71659375,"end":11869.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11870.15909375,"end":11871.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11871.74534375,"end":11874.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11875.54221875,"end":11877.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11877.938468750002,"end":11881.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11882.309093750002,"end":11884.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11885.380343750003,"end":11890.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11890.324718750002,"end":11895.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11896.180343750002,"end":11898.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11898.542843750001,"end":11899.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11899.99409375,"end":11901.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11902.930343750002,"end":11911.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11911.97534375,"end":11916.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11917.577843750001,"end":11921.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11921.847218750001,"end":11924.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11924.85096875,"end":11928.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11929.390343750001,"end":11931.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11932.140968750002,"end":11940.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11941.08471875,"end":11949.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11949.20159375,"end":11952.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11953.21784375,"end":11955.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11956.187843750002,"end":11957.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11957.875343750002,"end":11959.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11960.01846875,"end":11960.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11961.43596875,"end":11968.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11969.19846875,"end":11979.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11981.11221875,"end":11982.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11983.10346875,"end":11984.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11985.887843750003,"end":11988.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11988.824093750001,"end":11991.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11992.08096875,"end":11997.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11998.577843750001,"end":12001.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12002.003468750001,"end":12007.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12008.21346875,"end":12014.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12015.01409375,"end":12017.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12018.16971875,"end":12020.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12021.645968750003,"end":12029.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12030.04971875,"end":12031.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12032.51346875,"end":12033.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12033.981593750003,"end":12036.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12037.37346875,"end":12042.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12043.02659375,"end":12047.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12048.325343750003,"end":12058.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12058.58534375,"end":12060.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12061.352843750003,"end":12066.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12066.769718750002,"end":12068.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12068.997218750003,"end":12070.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12071.207843750002,"end":12073.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12075.578468750002,"end":12076.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12078.39659375,"end":12079.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12079.25721875,"end":12085.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12085.26471875,"end":12087.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12087.67784375,"end":12093.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12093.38159375,"end":12101.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12104.046593750001,"end":12104.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12106.324718750002,"end":12108.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12107.792843750001,"end":12108.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12109.699718750002,"end":12111.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12110.67846875,"end":12111.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12113.277218750001,"end":12114.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12115.99409375,"end":12116.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12117.715343750002,"end":12118.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12119.149718750003,"end":12124.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12125.07284375,"end":12130.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12131.586593750002,"end":12138.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12139.332218750002,"end":12143.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12144.27659375,"end":12148.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12148.765343750001,"end":12151.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12151.92096875,"end":12153.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12153.81096875,"end":12155.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12155.75159375,"end":12157.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12157.641593750002,"end":12167.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12167.344718750002,"end":12170.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12171.00659375,"end":12180.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12180.895343750002,"end":12182.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12182.565968750001,"end":12184.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12184.82721875,"end":12187.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12187.56096875,"end":12190.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12190.969718750002,"end":12192.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12192.35346875,"end":12195.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12196.09971875,"end":12209.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12209.937218750001,"end":12211.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12211.624718750001,"end":12222.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12222.492218750001,"end":12228.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12228.90471875,"end":12232.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12232.81971875,"end":12235.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12235.958468750003,"end":12247.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12248.31096875,"end":12254.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12254.925968750002,"end":12256.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12257.22096875,"end":12259.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12259.17846875,"end":12261.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12262.28346875,"end":12263.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12263.802218750003,"end":12264.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12265.101593750001,"end":12270.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12271.09221875,"end":12310.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12311.17034375,"end":12329.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12329.665343750003,"end":12338.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12339.28409375,"end":12349.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12349.56096875,"end":12350.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12350.539718750002,"end":12351.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12351.92346875,"end":12367.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12367.85346875,"end":12371.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12371.987843750001,"end":12381.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12381.184718750003,"end":12392.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12393.149093750002,"end":12398.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12398.582843750002,"end":12399.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12400.01721875,"end":12408.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12408.640343750001,"end":12420.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12420.773468750001,"end":12426.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12426.46034375,"end":12435.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12435.657218750002,"end":12436.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12436.46721875,"end":12444.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12445.54596875,"end":12445.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12445.562843750002,"end":12445.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12446.32221875,"end":12452.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12452.54909375,"end":12463.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12454.540343750003,"end":12454.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12464.243468750003,"end":12520.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12473.524718750003,"end":12473.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12473.69346875,"end":12473.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12520.724093750003,"end":12524.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12525.195968750002,"end":12594.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12594.855968750002,"end":12611.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12611.359718750002,"end":12613.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12613.840343750002,"end":12675.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12676.04159375,"end":12771.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12772.954718750003,"end":12778.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12778.860968750003,"end":12793.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12795.364718750003,"end":12799.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12801.96284375,"end":12820.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12820.710968750001,"end":12824.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12825.267218750003,"end":12859.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12860.45159375,"end":12868.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12869.024093750002,"end":12873.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12875.63909375,"end":12878.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12878.895968750003,"end":12894.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12894.57284375,"end":12898.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12899.027843750002,"end":12918.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12918.88971875,"end":12922.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12922.551593750002,"end":12923.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12923.699093750001,"end":12925.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12925.96034375,"end":12931.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12932.49096875,"end":12932.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12932.91284375,"end":12938.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12938.464718750001,"end":12949.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12949.770968750003,"end":12961.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12962.157218750002,"end":12970.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12972.04596875,"end":12972.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12972.56909375,"end":12992.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12992.363468750002,"end":13003.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13003.450343750003,"end":13012.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13013.524718750003,"end":13019.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13019.532218750002,"end":13023.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13023.91971875,"end":13030.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13031.10846875,"end":13035.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13035.968468750001,"end":13046.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13046.751593750003,"end":13059.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13060.234718750002,"end":13076.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13076.468468750001,"end":13090.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13090.829093750002,"end":13106.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13107.78846875,"end":13108.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13108.93596875,"end":13112.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13113.930968750003,"end":13115.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13116.614093750002,"end":13116.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13121.777843750002,"end":13182.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13182.71346875,"end":13423.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13424.515343750001,"end":13425.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13425.61221875,"end":13435.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13435.83846875,"end":13438.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13439.129093750002,"end":13439.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13440.563468750002,"end":13441.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13442.48721875,"end":13444.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13445.001593750003,"end":13446.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13447.60034375,"end":13457.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13457.590343750002,"end":13462.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13462.973468750002,"end":13468.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13468.660343750002,"end":13473.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13473.840968750003,"end":13476.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13477.35096875,"end":13493.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13500.85784375,"end":13500.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13500.942218750002,"end":13500.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13500.95909375,"end":13501.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13501.00971875,"end":13501.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13501.161593750003,"end":13501.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13501.195343750001,"end":13502.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13502.039093750001,"end":13509.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13502.29221875,"end":13503.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15587.72159375,"end":15593.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15594.555968750003,"end":15596.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15596.985968750003,"end":15598.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15598.724093750003,"end":15600.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15601.05284375,"end":15604.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15605.69346875,"end":15606.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15606.503468750001,"end":15607.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15608.59596875,"end":15618.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15619.075343750003,"end":15671.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15672.231593750003,"end":15736.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15736.79534375,"end":15737.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15738.027218750001,"end":15753.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15753.88971875,"end":15765.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15766.292843750001,"end":15772.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15773.07659375,"end":15773.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15773.987843750001,"end":15782.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15782.62784375,"end":15793.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15793.69784375,"end":15796.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15796.515968750002,"end":15800.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15800.059718750003,"end":15833.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15833.52284375,"end":15937.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15937.489718750003,"end":15941.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15942.40034375,"end":15968.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15968.792843750001,"end":15989.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15989.97096875,"end":15990.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15990.207218750002,"end":16030.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16030.724093750003,"end":16053.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16053.809093750002,"end":16055.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16055.36159375,"end":16055.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16056.492218750001,"end":16057.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16057.487843750001,"end":16061.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16061.993468750003,"end":16082.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16082.226593750001,"end":16097.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16098.308468750001,"end":16116.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16116.22971875,"end":16116.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16117.343468750001,"end":16147.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16147.954718750003,"end":16161.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16162.21409375,"end":16195.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16196.01471875,"end":16209.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16210.695968750002,"end":16211.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16211.067218750002,"end":16212.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16212.09659375,"end":16213.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16213.93596875,"end":16222.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16223.11596875,"end":16242.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16242.94409375,"end":16276.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16276.829093750002,"end":16289.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16290.278468750003,"end":16290.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16292.235968750003,"end":16298.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16299.880343750003,"end":16300.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16307.136593750001,"end":16483.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16483.86846875,"end":16484.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16484.22284375,"end":16484.577218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16485.117218749998,"end":16490.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16503.257843749998,"end":16507.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16508.01659375,"end":16510.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16511.20596875,"end":16513.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16513.787843750004,"end":16518.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16518.98534375,"end":16522.124093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16522.59659375,"end":16523.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16523.592218750004,"end":16525.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16525.600343750004,"end":16529.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16529.717843749997,"end":16536.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16537.007843749998,"end":16553.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16553.849093750003,"end":16555.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16556.34659375,"end":16558.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16558.33784375,"end":16559.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16560.092843749997,"end":16561.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16562.320343749998,"end":16574.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16575.75284375,"end":16577.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16577.997218750003,"end":16589.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16590.29909375,"end":16601.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16601.200343750003,"end":16606.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16607.022218750004,"end":16608.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16608.43971875,"end":16609.874093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16610.380343750003,"end":16611.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16612.77659375,"end":16613.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16614.26159375,"end":16618.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16619.340968750003,"end":16623.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16623.74534375,"end":16626.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16626.715343750002,"end":16631.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16632.16596875,"end":16641.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16641.413468749997,"end":16641.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16642.00409375,"end":16653.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16654.373468750004,"end":16667.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16668.514718749997,"end":16671.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16672.193468750003,"end":16680.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16680.715343750002,"end":16681.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16681.795343750004,"end":16695.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16696.40909375,"end":16713.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16714.12784375,"end":16729.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16729.82159375,"end":16731.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16732.55534375,"end":16735.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16736.419718750003,"end":16736.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16737.34784375,"end":16740.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16741.364093750002,"end":16744.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16744.992218749998,"end":16746.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16747.32096875,"end":16750.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16750.62846875,"end":16755.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16755.57284375,"end":16758.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16758.779093750003,"end":16760.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16760.922218749998,"end":16765.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16765.748468750004,"end":16768.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16768.63409375,"end":16769.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16770.03471875,"end":16774.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16775.451593750004,"end":16780.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16780.96971875,"end":16804.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16804.881593750004,"end":16805.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16805.53971875,"end":16806.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16806.83909375,"end":16809.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16811.27721875,"end":16814.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":16814.500343749998,"end":16826.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16832.168468750002,"end":16833.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16833.855968750002,"end":16834.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16835.239718750003,"end":16839.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16840.217843749997,"end":16847.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16848.435968750004,"end":16848.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16849.397843749997,"end":16851.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16851.33846875,"end":16852.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16852.570343749998,"end":16855.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16855.96221875,"end":16888.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16888.497218750003,"end":16891.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16891.85534375,"end":16892.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16892.969093749998,"end":16900.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16900.05659375,"end":16900.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16900.17471875,"end":16902.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16902.40221875,"end":16904.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16904.967218750004,"end":16919.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16920.272843749997,"end":16957.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16957.73534375,"end":16959.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16960.18221875,"end":16969.210343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16969.36221875,"end":16971.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16972.703468749998,"end":17032.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17033.28471875,"end":17034.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17034.499718749998,"end":17041.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17045.130968750003,"end":17050.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17053.93971875,"end":17053.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17053.95659375,"end":17077.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17077.78409375,"end":17078.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17078.357843750004,"end":17102.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17102.387843750003,"end":17144.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17144.828468749998,"end":17164.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17165.55096875,"end":17191.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":17193.411593750003,"end":17193.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17194.23846875,"end":17207.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17219.33159375,"end":17301.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17302.255343750003,"end":17339.616593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17339.88659375,"end":17343.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17344.00409375,"end":17403.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17405.007218749997,"end":17410.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17411.57159375,"end":17412.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17413.529093750003,"end":17418.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17419.51971875,"end":17422.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17453.303468750004,"end":17454.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17454.974093750003,"end":17455.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17455.210343749997,"end":17458.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17459.59784375,"end":17461.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17461.859093749998,"end":17463.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17463.46221875,"end":17464.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17464.52534375,"end":17465.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17466.19596875,"end":17466.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17468.32221875,"end":17469.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17470.094093749998,"end":17471.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17471.47784375,"end":17473.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17474.414093749998,"end":17475.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17477.09721875,"end":17478.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17480.33721875,"end":17491.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17491.694093750004,"end":17495.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17496.16596875,"end":17498.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17499.03471875,"end":17502.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17502.59534375,"end":17509.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17509.750343749998,"end":17512.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17513.108468749997,"end":17517.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17517.81659375,"end":17519.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17520.76971875,"end":17525.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17525.629718750002,"end":17532.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17534.505968750003,"end":17539.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17540.310968750004,"end":17544.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17545.187843749998,"end":17548.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17549.76096875,"end":17553.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17553.84471875,"end":17558.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17559.312218749998,"end":17559.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17561.404718750004,"end":17562.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17563.109093749998,"end":17568.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17568.93096875,"end":17572.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17573.976593749998,"end":17580.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17581.114718750003,"end":17587.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17588.15159375,"end":17590.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17592.06659375,"end":17597.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17598.36096875,"end":17600.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17600.639093750004,"end":17606.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17606.89971875,"end":17609.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17609.02596875,"end":17610.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17612.350343750004,"end":17615.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17616.366593749997,"end":17623.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17632.465343750002,"end":17737.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17738.271593750003,"end":17817.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17819.76096875,"end":17829.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17829.109718749998,"end":17829.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17829.78471875,"end":17833.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17833.44659375,"end":17938.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17938.054718749998,"end":17978.757218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17982.351593749998,"end":17983.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17983.482218750003,"end":17986.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17987.312843749998,"end":17990.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17994.332843750002,"end":17998.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17999.86784375,"end":18001.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18002.044718750003,"end":18003.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18004.575968750003,"end":18010.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18011.309093750002,"end":18031.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18031.896593750003,"end":18032.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18032.655968749998,"end":18034.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18035.30534375,"end":18040.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18040.48596875,"end":18044.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18044.755343750003,"end":18056.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18056.63534375,"end":18058.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18059.757218749997,"end":18067.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18068.177843750003,"end":18078.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18078.47159375,"end":18082.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18082.45409375,"end":18085.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18085.82909375,"end":18086.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18087.060968750004,"end":18089.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18089.55846875,"end":18090.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18090.874718749998,"end":18092.663468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18093.77721875,"end":18097.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18097.89471875,"end":18109.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18109.36971875,"end":18117.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18117.26721875,"end":18120.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18122.194718749997,"end":18130.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18130.817843750003,"end":18131.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18131.442218750002,"end":18132.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18142.39409375,"end":18145.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18146.17409375,"end":18151.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18152.09721875,"end":18152.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18154.71284375,"end":18167.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18167.655968749998,"end":18177.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18177.983468749997,"end":18179.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18179.70471875,"end":18180.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18180.413468749997,"end":18181.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18181.442843750003,"end":18183.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18183.95721875,"end":18188.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18189.154718750004,"end":18217.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18217.90971875,"end":18219.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18220.170968749997,"end":18222.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18222.75284375,"end":18253.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18253.465343750002,"end":18258.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18258.983468749997,"end":18272.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18272.449718750002,"end":18272.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18272.63534375,"end":18272.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18272.685968750004,"end":18273.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18273.968468749998,"end":18274.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18274.72784375,"end":18284.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18284.43096875,"end":18285.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18286.793468750002,"end":18287.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18288.04221875,"end":18288.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18289.645343750002,"end":18291.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18294.015968749998,"end":18316.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18316.780343749997,"end":18327.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18328.22159375,"end":18349.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18350.34471875,"end":18350.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18351.28971875,"end":18355.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18356.16659375,"end":18358.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18358.343468749998,"end":18371.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18371.725343750004,"end":18381.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18381.91784375,"end":18391.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18391.570343749998,"end":18428.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18428.779718750004,"end":18431.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18432.154718750004,"end":18437.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18437.402843750002,"end":18442.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18442.75221875,"end":18450.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18450.75096875,"end":18480.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18480.94034375,"end":18482.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18483.75846875,"end":18484.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18485.547218749998,"end":18486.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18487.77471875,"end":18489.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18496.44846875,"end":18524.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18524.83221875,"end":18562.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18562.80096875,"end":18572.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18572.26784375,"end":18598.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18598.170968749997,"end":18616.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18617.71221875,"end":18620.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18620.47971875,"end":18655.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18655.630343750003,"end":18684.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18686.309093750002,"end":18686.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18686.967218750004,"end":18687.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18687.507218749997,"end":18688.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18689.76846875,"end":18690.983468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18691.15221875,"end":18692.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18692.670968749997,"end":18693.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18694.42596875,"end":18696.045968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":18696.63659375,"end":18700.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18710.153468750003,"end":18729.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18729.998468750004,"end":18811.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18812.53409375,"end":18857.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18857.55659375,"end":18871.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18872.085968749998,"end":18893.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18894.59721875,"end":18895.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18895.33971875,"end":18949.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18950.132843749998,"end":18960.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18961.67534375,"end":18963.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18963.531593749998,"end":18964.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18964.746593750002,"end":18968.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18969.015968749998,"end":19061.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19061.811593750004,"end":19066.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19066.72221875,"end":19067.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19068.257843749998,"end":19069.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19070.08034375,"end":19072.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19072.982843750004,"end":19075.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19075.834718750004,"end":19076.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19076.84721875,"end":19077.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19078.028468750003,"end":19105.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19105.973468750002,"end":19108.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19109.584718750004,"end":19110.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19110.614093750002,"end":19120.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19120.48596875,"end":19122.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19122.848468750002,"end":19149.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19148.54909375,"end":19149.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19150.911593750003,"end":19153.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19154.843468749998,"end":19155.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":19160.429093749997,"end":19290.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19291.277843750002,"end":19294.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19295.732843750004,"end":19296.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19297.319093750004,"end":19299.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19299.47909375,"end":19301.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19302.044093750003,"end":19304.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19304.98034375,"end":19306.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19307.81534375,"end":19308.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19311.27471875,"end":19313.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19314.16034375,"end":19317.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19317.653468750003,"end":19317.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19323.795968750004,"end":19330.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19330.59659375,"end":19333.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19334.123468750004,"end":19338.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19340.789093749998,"end":19342.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19342.84784375,"end":19343.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19343.97846875,"end":19346.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19348.703468749998,"end":19349.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19349.76659375,"end":19354.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19356.280343750004,"end":19357.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19357.71471875,"end":19364.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19365.325343750003,"end":19367.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19367.94096875,"end":19379.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19380.124718749998,"end":19396.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19397.910968750002,"end":19405.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19405.35284375,"end":19413.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19413.233468750004,"end":19415.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19416.42284375,"end":19422.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19422.835343749997,"end":19426.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19427.037218750003,"end":19433.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19433.63534375,"end":19438.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19438.47846875,"end":19440.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19441.077218750004,"end":19449.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19450.49346875,"end":19462.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19463.38596875,"end":19464.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19465.731593750003,"end":19467.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19468.718468749998,"end":19475.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19476.953468749998,"end":19477.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19478.65784375,"end":19479.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19481.256593750004,"end":19483.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19483.872218750003,"end":19487.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19488.27659375,"end":19490.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19491.83721875,"end":19494.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19494.773468749998,"end":19498.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19498.958468750003,"end":19500.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19500.61221875,"end":19503.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19504.62846875,"end":19507.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19507.02471875,"end":19507.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19509.606593750003,"end":19512.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19515.78284375,"end":19516.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19516.879718750002,"end":19520.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19520.54159375,"end":19522.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19522.24596875,"end":19522.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19523.950343750003,"end":19526.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19526.95409375,"end":19527.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19527.81471875,"end":19530.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19531.10534375,"end":19533.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19533.974093750003,"end":19536.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19536.15096875,"end":19536.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19537.585343749997,"end":19537.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19538.14221875,"end":19539.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19539.897218750004,"end":19540.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19541.044718750003,"end":19542.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19543.00221875,"end":19543.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19544.04846875,"end":19545.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19545.584093750003,"end":19560.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19560.872843750003,"end":19580.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19580.481593750003,"end":19581.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19581.71346875,"end":19584.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19584.480968750002,"end":19591.585343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19592.05784375,"end":19601.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19602.26721875,"end":19623.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19623.98534375,"end":19628.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19628.929718749998,"end":19634.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19634.95409375,"end":19637.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19637.82284375,"end":19638.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19638.66659375,"end":19640.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19640.57346875,"end":19642.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19642.919093750003,"end":19656.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19657.43159375,"end":19657.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19658.444093750004,"end":19660.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19660.92471875,"end":19661.616593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19661.85284375,"end":19666.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19666.442843750003,"end":19667.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19667.843468749998,"end":19672.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19672.63596875,"end":19673.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19673.732843750004,"end":19676.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19676.41596875,"end":19678.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19679.031593749998,"end":19692.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19693.358468750004,"end":19697.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19697.256593750004,"end":19710.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19710.58784375,"end":19714.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19714.06409375,"end":19714.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":19714.350968749997,"end":19714.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19714.975343750004,"end":19715.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19715.53221875,"end":19719.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19725.505343750003,"end":19726.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19727.429093749997,"end":19730.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19730.567843750003,"end":19796.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19797.27471875,"end":19804.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19804.37909375,"end":19806.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19806.505343750003,"end":19812.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19815.34784375,"end":19824.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19824.61221875,"end":19826.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19827.092843750004,"end":19829.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19829.79284375,"end":19830.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19840.40721875,"end":19861.585343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19861.973468750002,"end":19885.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19886.374718749998,"end":19890.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19893.24284375,"end":19895.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19897.140968749998,"end":19915.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19915.51784375,"end":19919.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19919.75346875,"end":19921.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19921.778468750003,"end":19948.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19948.694093750004,"end":19950.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19950.719093749998,"end":19954.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19954.56659375,"end":19955.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19955.730968750002,"end":19957.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19957.38471875,"end":19962.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19963.122218750003,"end":19963.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19964.624093750004,"end":19968.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19970.56409375,"end":19973.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19974.14159375,"end":19974.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19975.154093750003,"end":19978.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19979.490968750004,"end":19982.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19983.35534375,"end":19984.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19984.755968750003,"end":19987.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19988.367218749998,"end":19993.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19994.29034375,"end":19998.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":19998.96471875,"end":20006.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20007.419093750003,"end":20013.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20013.966593750003,"end":20016.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20017.18971875,"end":20020.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20020.395968750003,"end":20026.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20027.382218749997,"end":20031.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20032.090343750002,"end":20034.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20034.89159375,"end":20037.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20037.726593749998,"end":20038.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20038.90784375,"end":20039.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":20039.937218749998,"end":20041.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20070.177218750003,"end":20072.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20072.69159375,"end":20073.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20073.29909375,"end":20073.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20073.366593749997,"end":20073.53534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1098.957,"end":1099.528,"text":"議員先算了"},{"start":1838.288,"end":1866.69,"text":"我們請議事人員準備咖啡向各位與會者報告因為地震的關係所以相關出席的人員有的還在高鐵上有的還在捷運上造成相關的延誤那我看我們再晚10分鐘好了非常不好意思"},{"start":1874.4,"end":1901.973,"text":"那也跟各位與會者做個說明也因為地震的關係所以交通部王國才部長必須要先處理相關的鐵道系統、公路系統相關的安全事宜也必須針對全國的交通系統來進行相關安全的一個檢視所以特別讓王國才部長在"},{"start":1904.306,"end":1913.825,"text":"現在先讓他去處理相關的這些狀況那狀況告一段落部長立刻就會趕過來先向各位來做個說明"},{"start":2024.383,"end":2041.743,"text":"不好意思再次向各位與會者再次做個說明因為高鐵地震的關係所以會延誤一個小時那我們有許多的與會者他其實是搭乘高鐵過來那另外我們的"},{"start":2044.426,"end":2056.961,"text":"結運臺北的環狀線也因為相關的這些地震的因素可能也會延誤大概一個小時左右那相關的這些交通的狀況我想"},{"start":2060.069,"end":2077.761,"text":"我們剛才宣布說延10分鐘那我在衡量相關的狀況之後必須讓相關的與會者能夠到場來發言那我們就延半個小時好不好30分鐘因為很多人還在高鐵上面"},{"start":2081.483,"end":2102.342,"text":"我們希望大家都平安那部長也因為必須掌握相關的這些全國交通系統目前的安全狀況也必須在相關的這些單位來進行巡視以及匯報那部長會晚一點到我們必須讓他掌握全國交通安全的狀況"},{"start":2103.243,"end":2112.602,"text":"然後他會趕過來向各位來做個報告我們9點半來正式開始先大家可以在場交換意見"},{"start":3329.525,"end":3357.185,"text":"再次向各位與會者做個報告跟說明我們的會議九點半就會正式的開始那現在因為地震的衝擊相關的狀況所以現在已經開設一級應變中心所以部長跟公路總局陳局長還有王部長都必須在目前這個時刻在"},{"start":3358.286,"end":3386.034,"text":"一級應變中心作證那是相關的狀況他們來趕過來這個會場當然還是要以全國的交通系統的安全是為首要的重要的一個基礎所以我們讓部長跟局長先去處理相關的這些應變的狀況那負責修法我們的林福山司長在現場"},{"start":3389.136,"end":3406.409,"text":"臨時長臨時長會來做相關的一個說明以上向各位報告那我們在三分鐘馬上就會開始以上 謝謝今天我們也會提供咖啡大家不用擔心咖啡不是交通部出的是我出的"},{"start":3573.23,"end":3581.774,"text":"現在開會本次公聽會在開議之前向各位與會者報告因為"},{"start":3583.7,"end":3609.432,"text":"7級以上的地震對臺灣的交通系統造成嚴重的衝擊所以交通部部長王國才以及公路總局陳文瑞局長目前都在一級應變中心一級應變中心已經開設然後我們視狀況等到整個交通安全系統穩定之後那部長跟局長在"},{"start":3611.615,"end":3612.737,"text":"考慮會不會過來我們也會來隨時掌握相關的狀況"},{"start":3620.233,"end":3641.078,"text":"道路交通安全處罰條例關係到交通安全的一個維護那相關的修法必須以最嚴謹的態度所以我依照立法院職權行使法第54條召開正式的公聽會"},{"start":3642.498,"end":3656,"text":"然後這個公聽會邀請各界的學者、專家、團體以及立委大家來共同討論然後我們會依據立法院職權行使法"},{"start":3657.113,"end":3677.247,"text":"第58條在本次公聽會會議結束之後10日內必須將相關與會者的發言整理成報告這個報告必須交給立法院所有的委員以及出席的所有的代表"},{"start":3679.248,"end":3700.176,"text":"必須依照立法院職權行使法第59條就是針對相關的公聽會的內容作為立法委員針對特定立案修法的重要依據我們今天就會來進行相關的討論而且今天的公聽會是"},{"start":3702.711,"end":3716.566,"text":"正式的公聽會所以也跟委員會的發言轉播一樣全程都有直播向各位來做個提醒跟說明那我們"},{"start":3719.022,"end":3741.855,"text":"在此感謝各位委員、學者專家及相關代表的蒞臨本日研討的議題以討論提綱為準請各位自行參閱我現在介紹在場的委員林國成委員林佩祥委員"},{"start":3745.397,"end":3759.324,"text":"我現在來介紹學者專家中華民國汽車運輸業駕駛員 全國總工會鄭麗嘉理事長中華民國汽車路線貨運商業工會 全國聯合會李育翔理事長全國汽車駕駛人權益聯盟理事長 劉鴻章理事長"},{"start":3773.715,"end":3788.36,"text":"中華民國全國駕駛員職業總工會祕書長黃淑慧環路漁民行人入權促進會陳法軍代表行人臨時網推動聯盟陳凱琳理事長臺灣數位平台預約接送從業人員產業工會李威爾理事長"},{"start":3803.117,"end":3828.341,"text":"台灣機車路權促進會 羅怡理事交通安全協會 陳鴻毅理事長台灣運輸移動科技派遣平台協會 曾鴻毅秘書長交通安全協會 林志學副理事長"},{"start":3833.213,"end":3849.64,"text":"列席的官員公共運輸及監理司司長林福山陸政及盜安司黃韻貴司長綜合規劃司傅桂蘭副司長法制處許鴻達處長"},{"start":3860.319,"end":3886.838,"text":"公路總局因為局長陳文瑞在一級開設中心一級應變中心所以由副局長張順清因為部長在一級應變中心所以我特別邀請對於公路系統是他重要督導業務的交通部副部長次長我們的陳彥博次長"},{"start":3892.038,"end":3918.771,"text":"陳彥博次長以前也是高工局的局長也在相關的工作系統非常的熟悉運輸研究所林紀國所長內政部國土管理署都市基礎工程組檢任政工程師王錫明內政部警政署交通組黃毅山副組長"},{"start":3923.496,"end":3942.142,"text":"法務部法制司 謝右雲檢察官臺北市政府交通局檢任計政 楊清文新北市政府交通事件裁決處 顏佩儒課長"},{"start":3947.868,"end":3976.985,"text":"臺中市交通事件裁決處陳敏健秘書好 補介紹在場的委員黃婕委員林月琴委員好 首先我要邀請林福山司長做報告"},{"start":3988.986,"end":4011.618,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士先生今天應邀出席《道路交通管理處罰條例》修法公聽會以下僅就行政院含送立法院審議的《道路交通管理處罰條例》第7條之一、63條、第63條之二修正草案的重點並依公聽會所列的民眾檢舉交通違規項目檢討方向"},{"start":4014.625,"end":4025.514,"text":"即違規點數項目及執行方式檢討方向民眾檢舉及違規祭典的配套措施檢討包括工程、教育、監理、執法等提綱來進行報告"},{"start":4028.211,"end":4047.855,"text":"首先,針對行政院函請立法院審議《道路交通管理處罰條例》修正草案的重點主要是考量在去年6月30日新修正《道路交通管理處罰條例》部分條文施行後去年全年死亡人數較111年是有下降,減少11人"},{"start":4050.475,"end":4059.358,"text":"道路交通安全部份是有改善的成效但是同時因為放寬民眾檢舉項目及增加即違規點數的項目導致民眾檢舉停車或臨時停車即違規點數等案件數量暴增"},{"start":4066.755,"end":4081.823,"text":"而依規定在一年內累計12點及調扣駕照兩個月各界反映已有嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權並造成警察機關執法量能的負擔考量民眾檢舉確實已經背離當時立法的這個目的"},{"start":4086.725,"end":4092.553,"text":"另外,也因為道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生相關實務的問題,所以檢討相關條例的修正"},{"start":4098.448,"end":4126.679,"text":"維護道路交通安全及降低違規案件必須由中央及地方政府從工程、教育、監理、執法等面向共同進行改善道路交通安全基本法已在去年12月15日制定公佈並且在今年1月1日施行那目前也克正在推動制定行人交通安全設施條例明定各級政府之權者以落實提供完善安全的道路通行環境"},{"start":4128.038,"end":4149.952,"text":"另外各地方政府克正積極從工程面改善提供民眾及營業車輛妥適的上下客貨停車或臨時停車的行人空間希望從源頭來改善降低各類用戶人因道路環境未曾完備而產生的交通違規行為在行人環境及停車或臨時停車問題尚未改善前經綜合檢討"},{"start":4152.639,"end":4164.103,"text":"分析交通事故所涉違規行為太陽區分不同危險程度希望從有效風險控管的角度全面檢視民眾檢舉及違規點數相關規定的合理性同時為兼顧職業駕駛人工作權及減少因民眾檢舉及及違規點數延伸之爭議交通部在"},{"start":4176.027,"end":4196.846,"text":"收集各界的意見檢討修法明確的處罰條例第7條之一63條63條之二的修正草案行政院113年3月7號院會決議通過之後同日也含送立法院來進行審議那主要重點包括三點第一點修正7條修正條文7條之一"},{"start":4201.502,"end":4205.463,"text":"就民眾可檢舉的項目檢討刪除 部分可施以勸導好 請繼續"},{"start":4228.263,"end":4241.636,"text":"修正條文第7條之一的重點是就民眾可檢舉的項目刪除部分可施予勸導不予舉發的違規事項第二個修正重點是修正條文63條重演認定違規行為及違規點數的方式限於當場舉發至案件時予以及違規點數排除進行舉發及民眾檢舉之情形"},{"start":4251.398,"end":4273.012,"text":"並修正道路交通安全講習扣抵違規點數之次數那第三個重點的部分是配套修正條例第63條之二是配合這個修正63條部分刪除有關進行舉辦案件及違規點數的規定那接下來針對本次公聽會所列提綱進行說明"},{"start":4275.612,"end":4294.911,"text":"提綱一就民眾檢舉交通違規項目檢討這個方向就如剛剛所說明去年6月30日施行這個處罰條例部分修正條文修正案其中有關於7條之一有關於民眾檢舉的部分是增加民眾可檢舉項目13項從46項增加為59項"},{"start":4300.356,"end":4314.53,"text":"增加可檢舉的項目主要是相關注意行人及違規臨時停車停車等行為那這個部分增加的一個這個項目那在這個事務上因為相關這個"},{"start":4317.623,"end":4318.043,"text":"修法公聽會議"},{"start":4337.668,"end":4357.034,"text":"那行政院版含重審議的處罰條例7條之一就民眾可檢舉的項目主要是檢討刪除部分可施予勸導不予舉發之違規事項那可施予勸導不予舉發之違規事項主要是依據95年7月1日修正施行條例第92條增訂輕微違規勸導的規定"},{"start":4360.175,"end":4388.414,"text":"及當時依照92條第4項的條文授權訂定違反道路交通管理事件統一裁判基準及處理細則第12條輕微違規得失與欠倒名與舉發之項目相關的項目規定系以最高罰款1200元以下為基礎原依據嚴厲修正最高罰款1200元以下輕微違規限縮不予民眾檢舉項目包括下列這個10項"},{"start":4390.275,"end":4414.836,"text":"第一項是騎乘機車未戴安全帽滑環500元第二項騎乘機車打行動電話滑環1000元第三項騎機車駕駛人這個邊開車邊吸煙滑環600元第四項倒車未顯示燈光或不注意行人包括大型車的部分那這個部分滑環是600到1200元第五項在橋樑隧道圓環等相關這個"},{"start":4417.138,"end":4432.382,"text":"臨時停車,那這個是條例55條第一項第一款,划緩300到600元第6項,在交叉路口、公車造物站及消防車出入口5公尺內,臨時停車,這個部分是划緩是300到600元第7項,不亦順行或並排臨時停車,划緩300到600元"},{"start":4438.123,"end":4458.678,"text":"第8項是有關這個相關在禁止臨時停車這些處所這個停車的話 緩緩是600到1000第9項是在機場車站等公共場所出入口 這個停車緩緩是600到1200元第10項 佔用身心障礙格位緩緩600到1200元"},{"start":4461.96,"end":4484.039,"text":"那針對本日公聽會首列討論提綱2 繼違規點數項目及執行方式檢討這個方向在去年6月30號施行這個處罰條例部分條文修正案之後原來在條例63條明文規定25項的計點項目那依照這個去年修正條文"},{"start":4485,"end":4512.674,"text":"改在授權在這個裁判細則第二條裡面來做規定然後在裁判細則去年修正是從這個25項的祭典項目增加30項變為這個55個項目那而且原來是當場攔查舉發的違規行為才予以祭典亦修正為這進行舉發包括檢察機關本身的科技執法及民眾檢舉之後的這個進行舉發均予以祭典"},{"start":4513.274,"end":4520.094,"text":"在同時放寬民眾檢舉項目及增加祭典項目後那整個祭典的這個案件量這個暴增"},{"start":4522.199,"end":4541.724,"text":"那另外第二第二點的部分就是說進行舉發採證的相片或錄影無法得知實際駕駛人那實務上也出現不實陳報駕駛人冒名警惕及祭典黃牛等亂象考量違規祭典累計吊扣駕照除涉及一般民眾駕駛測量權意外亦攸關職業駕駛人駕駛資格及工作權其違規行為必須從嚴認定亦必須及防度規則不依實體審查而延伸之亂象"},{"start":4551.867,"end":4578.752,"text":"鑑於祭典制度因道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生實務問題未取得道安與人民權益之平衡點交通部參酌社會各界意見以工程改善手段先替代建立執法手段在行人環境及這個相關停車問題尚未改善前引以修正違規祭典項目及執行方式包括修正條例63條當場舉發案件時與祭典"},{"start":4581.893,"end":4608.935,"text":"進行舉發不予祭典自願參加講習扣抵違規點數由一年一次兩點提高為一年兩次四點那另外配套這個呃配合63條的修正配套這個刪除有關於63條之二相關進行舉發案件及違規點數的規定那針對討論提高三呃民眾檢舉及違規祭典的配套措施這個檢討包括工程教育建立執法等"},{"start":4610.336,"end":4636.058,"text":"這一次行政院含送立法院審議的《道路交通管理處罰條例》修正草案所以先說部分輕微違規項目不予民眾檢舉但是不會因此而降低執法強度也不會有處罰的漏洞各類駕駛人如有違反《道路交通管理》的這個違規行為均需處以緩緩並依情節依條例規定訂授、講習、祭典、吊扣或吊銷駕駛執照等之處分"},{"start":4637.839,"end":4656.859,"text":"那為協助地方政府落實改善道路交通環境交通部在去年也頒布了4項指引包括4月份寒班人行空間改善原則5月份寒班改善機車交通環境之原則及做法7月份寒班行人專用或早開10項設置原則12月"},{"start":4659.421,"end":4682.582,"text":"12月份函班校園桌邊人行空間改善參考指引提供給各縣市依據來審視改善轄內道路交通環境那為觀測改善行人交通的政策決心行政院在去年5月也通過行人優先交通安全行動綱領從工程教育監理執法四大面向推動19項行動方案"},{"start":4684.944,"end":4710.664,"text":"結合跨部會及地方政府力量共同推動在去年8月更通過上位的行人交通安全政策綱領以推動道路交通基本法建置完整的公共運輸系統落實行人交通安全改善三大精進作為提出短中長期執行的項目在去年具體的成果以下大概重點報告在於工程的部分"},{"start":4711.365,"end":4727.146,"text":"路口行人安全設施改善3486處行人早開戶或行人專用時箱也改善4753處在人行道改善的部分也改善167.73公里那這個校園周邊的部分也改善205校"},{"start":4729.741,"end":4744.415,"text":"非號誌入口的部分也改善了5000餘處在教育的部分也補助了高中以下學校實施交通安全課程然後也補助辦理交通安全課程實施教師的研習及高齡的宣導"},{"start":4748.098,"end":4756.823,"text":"在經理面向部分擴大補助這個機車駕訓三萬五千餘人那另外一個部分也這個針對事辦機車道路駕駛訓練部也補助這個兩千這個餘人"},{"start":4763.001,"end":4790.597,"text":"那在執法面向的部分在去年5月這個同步也加強相關這個未禮當行人的一個這個執法包括這個舉例入口不停讓行人將近10萬件人行道違規停車將近90萬件那會號字化入口衛衣標誌這個停車再開也這個舉發這個2萬這個一件那在行政院在去年也核定永續提升人行"},{"start":4791.889,"end":4810.616,"text":"安全計劃 計劃期程從這個113年到116年4年投入中央補助經費400億元 積極改善入口人行道安全通行環境從點置線層面進行入口道路示範區域之行人安全設施及人行道建設之人行空間"},{"start":4811.576,"end":4827.836,"text":"公程改善作為目前已經核定799處依照市入口改善的這個案件那分別有這個國土署及本部公務局這邊來這個協助地方政府相關的地方政府及各單位目前都在積極推動辦理當中"},{"start":4830.014,"end":4856.421,"text":"交通安全基本法在今年1號已經制定這個實行那在這個道安運作體系方面中央及地方分別設有道路交通安全匯報在中央是由行政院院長召開在地方則由直轄市各縣市政府所長來這個召開落實中央各機關及地方政府依權者推動道路交通安全的這個工作另外"},{"start":4857.381,"end":4875.137,"text":"在基本法裡面也明文規定就人車路、汽車運輸業、交易訊導、執法、緊急醫療救護、保險與研究發展等九大面向定定基本政策作為跨部會各級政府分層擬定計畫並落實分工執行事務的這個依據"},{"start":4877.168,"end":4885.396,"text":"在今年3月7號行政院也通過行人交通安全設施條例草案含重這大院來做審議那在3月27號也經委員會這個出審這個通過"},{"start":4889.625,"end":4919.265,"text":"那未來這個行人交通安全設施條例明定內政部應會同各目的事業主管機關擬定行人交通安全設施推動計畫地方政府再依據訂定行人交通安全設施改善計畫每年公布執行情形並搭配獎程機制來徹底執行行人用路環境改善工作最後再補充報告本次這個處罰條例三個條文的修正主要是"},{"start":4920.385,"end":4946.06,"text":"考量希望以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段相關修法系屬在人行環境及停車問題改善優化前的權宜措施交通部跟內政部會持續會同及促請地方政府務必依狹內道安防治需求從源頭改善道路交通環境以上報告謝謝各位的一個聆聽謝謝"},{"start":4948.456,"end":4973.684,"text":"好 來補充介紹現場的委員 牛許廷委員補充介紹 環路漁民行人入權促進會陳法軍代表中華民國消費者文教基金會交通委員會召集人李克聰博士"},{"start":4978.401,"end":4997.373,"text":"臺灣障礙者權利促進會 劉宇記副秘書長臺灣安全駕駛監督聯盟 林美羅理事長另外介紹新北市政府交通事件裁決處 嚴佩如嚴克長"},{"start":5002.247,"end":5025.643,"text":"桃園市政府交通事件察覺處徐課長 徐奕廷徐課長高雄市政府警察局交通警察大隊副大隊長 洪愛格 是不是 洪副大隊長與委人員發言之前 先宣告以下事項"},{"start":5027.096,"end":5050.881,"text":"學者專家及本院委員每位委員發言時間5分鐘第一輪發言結束後如需補充說明會再進行第二輪的一個發言委員發言請先到主席台前面登記學者專家發言也請到主席台"},{"start":5052.025,"end":5079.162,"text":"的右邊的發言台我們所有與會者學者專家團體代表發言請到右手邊的發言台學者專家兩位發言之後如有委員到場會穿插一位發言兩位學者專家團體代表發言完了之後會穿插一位立委的發言那我們現在暫定"},{"start":5082.108,"end":5098.348,"text":"11點休息10分鐘與會人員全部發言完畢之後我們會請交通部來做整體的回應那在這邊也向各位做個報告跟說明因為蘇花之間的公路系統遭受嚴重的破壞"},{"start":5099.469,"end":5123.023,"text":"鐵路也暫停行駛,所以現在是進行海運的接駁輸澳到花蓮所以部長現在在坐鎮一級應變中心等到處理相關的狀況掌握穩定之後,部長再視狀況來到我們的這個公聽會然後這個公聽會,本次公聽會不進行詢問也不處理提案"},{"start":5124.195,"end":5142.359,"text":"我們現在請登記第一位的學者專家 汽車路線的貨運商業全國聯合會李育翔理事長發言然後下面請汽車運輸業駕駛員全國總工會理事長鄭麗嘉理事長準備在這邊不好意思"},{"start":5151.479,"end":5174.828,"text":"好我再跟各位補充說明今天的發言今天的公聽會全程立法院都有直播每一位委員的發言的內容按照立法院職權刑事法第58條在10日內都會做成報告交給所有的立法委員以及出席的相關代表以上做個報告謝謝"},{"start":5180.652,"end":5194.911,"text":"主席、各位議會的專家代表大家早安我代表汽車路線工會來這邊花言汽車路線工會我先說明一下我們就是宅配簡單講就是宅配那我們是挨家挨戶的手我們跟貨運工會比較不一樣那我們主要的會員"},{"start":5195.792,"end":5213.391,"text":"新竹物流、嘉里大龍、載機便跟載配同所以看起來就是以載配所以這個道安條例其實從去年到現在我們工會都很積極的在跟交通部來做溝通那也感謝林福山林司長的幫忙還有趙專委的協助齁那稍微有一點轉機"},{"start":5214.392,"end":5243.892,"text":"所以我要先表達我們公會的立場那職業駕駛人他都有他的責任他維護道路的安全但是我們現場就剛才我所說的我們現場在做配送的時候確實有他的困難度我們臨停的機會特別高那我們對於愛家愛護的送要不要送到樓上我們跟計程車又不一樣計程車或許他還能在車上我們是要離開車要去做配送所以以現場的所有困難度來講我們面臨的困難更高"},{"start":5245.292,"end":5266.078,"text":"違規祭典會影響到每一個職業駕駛人的工作權利所以這個部分也跟0530市長之前表達過很多次希望說可以再重新檢討有關駕駛的一個祭典的辦法針對這一次的修正希望說在執法時要注意第一個是"},{"start":5269.232,"end":5287.805,"text":"在一千兩百元滑環以下的是不是可以就不要再記點?剛才林司長有提到了齁那這個部分可能稍微放寬一下對於職業駕駛人他是每天都是在從事這個工作跟一般的駕駛就不太一樣他就是以駕駛為工作所以"},{"start":5288.385,"end":5303.182,"text":"我們自己內部也會做控制啦,對於那些駕駛習慣比較不好的,或者是常常違規的,我們除了做教育訓練之外我們針對重大闖紅燈、闖情平交道除了記過之外,我們就開除了"},{"start":5304.323,"end":5320.716,"text":"雖然現在人口少化從事駕駛職業工作的台灣人民並不多但是我們也是要做好維護道路安全的一個責任那第二個是民眾檢舉的部分是希望說"},{"start":5324.867,"end":5349.624,"text":"每天僅算一次,不要連續跟排,以前也發現到在中壢地區有發現那種連續跟排的然後再來是希望說,停車格的問題,上次有跟曾文燦曾副院長那時候有提到那個停車格嚴重的不足,面臨我們這種路線貨運,面臨道路的配送,這個可能會很麻煩"},{"start":5350.865,"end":5377.259,"text":"再來是檢舉的違規廷違廷的應該考量其他其他車輛的通行那不再影響的不影響車輛通行的情況之下是不是可以稍微放寬一下這個是因為我們要配送確實有它難度那最後是剛才林司長有提到現在已經放寬公會針對那個一年祭典累計12點"},{"start":5378.956,"end":5396.892,"text":"我們工會到目前為止統計出來因為這樣而被調購駕照已經超過將近100人了那有些工會的公司他是乾脆用扣車牌因為人不好請嘛所以他乾脆扣車牌那當然針對這一點我們還是希望說在從事藍領工作在做職業在做配送的這些駕駛員其實是很辛苦的"},{"start":5407.045,"end":5430.443,"text":"那個罰款對他們來講已經是很嚴重的那如果又要違規祭典然後又要那個祭滿12點又要吊扣駕照兩個月對現場的這些辛苦的同仁真的是負擔相當的大那也感謝交通部的協助那我們希望說這個部分可以稍微放寬一下謝謝主席 謝謝大家 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來請"},{"start":5438.737,"end":5441.928,"text":"鄭麗嘉理事長發言下一位黃婕委員請準備"},{"start":5449.578,"end":5465.476,"text":"主席還有幾位委員以及我們今天現場的所有的我們的現業同進大家早安大家好我代表中華民國汽車運輸業簡單講一下我們汽車運輸業的駕駛基本上就是全部都是職業駕駛涵蓋在九大運輸業都是我們的會員好我們下一頁"},{"start":5471.001,"end":5497.422,"text":"好這是在下一頁在下一頁謝謝好因為那個去年6月30號實施了以後然後導致我們因為道路工程環境沒有改善以致我們職業價值陷入天人交戰那不管是載客或載貨那都有可能因為祭典那不載客不載貨那有可能生計就受影響那載的客載的貨可能就因為"},{"start":5498.263,"end":5507.478,"text":"因為這樣子所以生計也受了影響那很多人說只要你不要違規就不怕被檢舉可是我們要試問"},{"start":5513.462,"end":5542.484,"text":"那我們要試問到底哪裡有合法的計程車的招呼站有多少合法的貨運的上下客貨的地方那如果這些配套措施都沒有然後你去年6月30號就已經實施的新的道安條例其實確實會影響到我們的生計我們職業駕駛每天在道路上平均差不多10個小時可是我們的計點制度其實是跟一般的所謂的"},{"start":5542.844,"end":5543.325,"text":"新政策實施導致生計嚴重"},{"start":5558.161,"end":5577.36,"text":"也因為祭典的制度跟民眾檢舉的狀況所以導致我們現在衝擊到我們很多駕駛朋友他不願意去幫助所謂的弱勢團體搭車包括一些復康巴士以及我們一些計程車的所謂的身障計程車等等"},{"start":5578.041,"end":5588.887,"text":"因為我們這些駕駛他必須要花更長的時間來服務這些所謂的老人或者是年幼的或是身障人士因為他花的時間越長其實被檢舉的風險越高這個其實會導致我們現在我們社會其實並沒有那麼和諧的一個狀況這是面臨到一個現實上的問題"},{"start":5599.312,"end":5610.96,"text":"那我也必須跟各位委員跟各位先進講我們現在的統計我們全台灣現在到新制到現在為止職業駕駛已經被調扣兩個月的已經高達2500位駕駛其實數據可能更恐怖那集滿6點的就是半格的集滿6點的其實已經高達15000人那這個數字其實是會一直往上跑的"},{"start":5627.33,"end":5635.088,"text":"那在這樣子的情形之下大家也可以看一下圖的這張圖這個其實在臺灣的道路上到處都看得到"},{"start":5636.859,"end":5660.478,"text":"那試問大家就是說如果你是一位不管是普通駕駛或是自用駕駛或是職業駕駛尤其是職業駕駛你到底應該要怎麼停車停在中間的你就變成並排臨時停車那停在左側那個是人行道的專用車道那那個就是禁止臨時停車的地方那試問大家我們到底要怎麼停好下一頁好再下一頁"},{"start":5664.669,"end":5664.83,"text":"民眾檢舉制度不應該檢討嗎?"},{"start":5688.117,"end":5704.267,"text":"好,所以我們對民眾檢舉的部分,我們針對我們覺得他會影響的事項如下那檢舉人因為道路上行駛的時候會分心,造成交通的事故那用路人會擔心被檢舉,某人檢舉造成形成的壓迫,我聲音到嗎?"},{"start":5706.839,"end":5711.904,"text":"第二輪可以繼續的發言做補充在這邊跟大家說明一下我們每一位發言都到右邊的發言台麥克風上面那個紅燈你要按"},{"start":5728.639,"end":5756.923,"text":"前面的按鈕才會有聲音第二每位發言的時間是5分鐘當你發言到第4分鐘剩1分鐘的時候會響一下鈴是會提醒你還剩1分鐘然後5分鐘的時候我們這邊也會按鈴來向大家做個報告然後跟各位再一次的說明每位5分鐘我們還有第二輪還有第二輪可以做補充的說明"},{"start":5757.823,"end":5783.628,"text":"現在請黃婕委員發言下一位請全國駕駛員職業總工會黃淑慧秘書長準備好 謝謝謝謝主席那我就開始 OK"},{"start":5785.389,"end":5812.416,"text":"那我相信今天願意出席在這邊的所有的來賓都是非常希望可以確保行人的安全然後我們共同的目標都是希望可以達到交通零死亡只是說現在交通部在具體施行上面的這個程度阿我覺得各方會有一些意見但我認為現在的交通部推出來的這個修正案還是太粗糙了因為我不認為駕駛的生存權跟用路人的安全是互相焊隔互相衝突的"},{"start":5813.536,"end":5838.816,"text":"所以我這個是希望大家該開公聽會可以在這邊好好討論就是找到共識的那首先我講一下說這個關於什麼是違罪我認為要從需求性可控制性跟危險性三個檢討原則來跟大家討論第一個啊現在交通部提出的這十個項目裡面其實我認為不是說每一個都是職業駕駛有需求的什麼意思呢就是你們現在說這十個我們違罪不舉"},{"start":5841.058,"end":5856.038,"text":"但是對職業價值來說我沒有說這十個項目都會影響到我的生計或我的生存權所以我覺得這兩件事不應該就是你們很粗糙的一刀切就說一千二以下那這些我們就一次都全部開放那我不認為這樣能解決到實質的問題"},{"start":5859.002,"end":5859.162,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5875.504,"end":5875.864,"text":"職業駕駛人的需求是什麼?"},{"start":5901.611,"end":5930.726,"text":"他們認為現在道路設計的現況對他們來說非常不公平而且很困擾的有哪些那用路人的需求又是哪些你們要先對焦才能解決問題嗎而不是非常粗糙的一刀切那另外一個是可控制性就是現在這些需求裡面其實我也認為職業駕駛需要給他們一些交通工程上面的配套例如說什麼像我在高雄有很多職業駕駛跟我說他們是送貨的結果你一整段路連一個裝卸貨的地方都沒有"},{"start":5931.286,"end":5951.143,"text":"那請問他們要去哪裡裝卸貨那就例如說有開長照車的然後他們長者的需求就是希望你可以在他家門口就接送他不然他對他上下車完全不方便可是整段都是紅線請問你要我去哪裡停這個是職業駕駛會需要的需求也是真的有民眾提出來的那我覺得應該你們要提出具體的配套要說他們怎麼協助你而不是強迫他們違規這個非常重要"},{"start":5957.188,"end":5957.288,"text":"危險性"},{"start":5977.922,"end":5996.687,"text":"那我覺得如果你們這個用這樣的標題下去對很多人來說就會覺得交通部是不是對於違罪的定義跟大家不一樣你們不覺得這個危險呢我不希望交通部被貼上這樣的標籤所以什麼是違罪不舉光是這個標題我就覺得非常的差勁喔那最後我講一下就是從這三個"},{"start":5998.547,"end":6013.111,"text":"我認為必須要跟大家對焦跟重新討論的就是你們應該要更細緻的去討論到底什麼是大家需求在哪裡那對於怎樣才可以同時保障用路人的需求那最後我講一下就是我覺得要同步檢討的其實是檢舉的制度"},{"start":6015.552,"end":6016.232,"text":"總檢舉人數82354人 總檢舉人數1萬分之一 檢舉超過19萬件"},{"start":6036.005,"end":6059.778,"text":"意思就是說我們全台灣有50個非常很積極在檢舉的人他們一個人就可以產生全台灣這麼多的檢舉量那所以我覺得應該要去討論的就是這個檢舉制度是不是有一些討論的空間而不是讓他變成一個可能跟鄰居互相報復的工具啊或者是他其實他的用意也不是要去為了維護你的用路人的安全而是刻意針對他想要去針對的人"},{"start":6060.939,"end":6082.535,"text":"所以我覺得這兩件事是可以同步討論的就是到底違罪不舉你們的內涵意義可以更細緻的討論那另外一個我們同步來討論檢舉制度好那最後我想講一下上了車大家都是駕駛下了車大家都是行人所以我必須要強調希望交通部新的方案絕對不可以造成職業駕駛跟我們用路人的對立以上我的建議謝謝"},{"start":6085.71,"end":6099.877,"text":"謝謝現在請全國駕駛員職業總工會黃淑慧秘書長發言也請數位平台預約接送從業人員工會理事長李威爾理事長準備"},{"start":6109.229,"end":6111.671,"text":"好謝謝主席召開今天的公聽會讓我們可以把我們基層的聲音在這邊跟各位報告我們不是"},{"start":6122.045,"end":6140.82,"text":"就職業駕駛來講,他如果要一口氣又吃飯而已,那加拿大救防局委員所提到的,交通違規需要,那不要讓一個使用汽車的人跟行人去做對立,其實不用說,那個交通部對於處罰條例稍稍改改"},{"start":6141.721,"end":6141.761,"text":"委員會：召開議員"},{"start":6171.661,"end":6172.041,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6190.014,"end":6211.143,"text":"剪取的那個祭典的制度那還有能夠在12點之內都要有個自費講習的每一年的次數呢增加為兩次那這兩個點的話我看到今天的修正版都已經進來了那所以呢我們也樂建交通部跟那個"},{"start":6211.963,"end":6234.348,"text":"假如說立法院能夠這樣走向,那是對我們價值人會很好的為什麼說需要民眾檢舉這個違規制度去把那幾乎阿伯都說完全廢掉啦齁但是有關於祭典,因為祭典會涉及到架腳架腳會涉及到我們的工作錢,就是這樣下來所以有一個資訊啦齁,在那112年的6月30號"},{"start":6237.009,"end":6265.556,"text":"新北市的話新北市的資料的話台北市的資料的話每個小時有42件檢舉那新北市呢每個小時有84檢舉那在10月份的那個新聞有一個報導每個小時108件你算看嘛108件再除以60的話等於是一分鐘差不多一分鐘三兩天這個量都要變成今天我們必須檢討處罰制度的最大來源"},{"start":6266.636,"end":6274.382,"text":"就是被濫用了原本的檢舉制度倒是希望說能夠協助行政令先暫停"},{"start":6299.394,"end":6301.255,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6310.489,"end":6335.435,"text":"好不好意思齁我們繼續好謝謝主席好在這邊往下走齁就是說我們肯認有關於修法的方向呢是進行舉發還有民眾檢舉的部分呢不以祭典那假如說違規的話該處罰金款那個划款的話那我們就不在這個話下了齁那另外一個就是也肯認智慧獎席抵扣點數的部分呢從"},{"start":6336.195,"end":6341.284,"text":"每年一次那修正增加為兩次這是肯定的部分那有兩個建議簡單講"},{"start":6346.983,"end":6363.98,"text":"現在處罰條例上面會有一個違規行為結果處罰公司跟處罰個人比如說我用一個例子來講處罰條例的29條第一項還有30條的第一項都是操縱那操縱的30條29條是處罰汽車所有人這個汽車所有人"},{"start":6368.405,"end":6368.705,"text":"希望在監理單位好 謝謝"},{"start":6396.834,"end":6422.604,"text":"好那建立單位建立那個建立機關能夠在祭典違規行為的人都要在祭典3次的時候能夠簡訊通知一下6次的時候呢通知一下9次的時候通知一下這個通知只是提醒他你不要再違規了讓他有修正自己也那個注意一下自己的那個交通行為的部分好以上報告謝謝"},{"start":6425.377,"end":6439.931,"text":"謝謝,我們現在請數位平臺EUA接送從業員工從業員工會理事長李威爾理事長發言下一位請林月琴立委準備"},{"start":6442.029,"end":6459.37,"text":"大家好 我是威爾我就前面不打招呼了我就直接進入主題我想因為我們的公會的立場就是我們就是計程車司機所以我今天不談太多之前我們已經在交通部或這個地方大家談的那種"},{"start":6460.211,"end":6460.431,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6481.883,"end":6502.052,"text":"道路交通設計不良的違規還有耗資與警告標示不良的違規還有第三人責任的違規我不知道這我列舉的這四個違規大家認不認同但是現在所有的違規都要算在駕駛人的身上嗎都要算在我計程車身上嗎"},{"start":6503.747,"end":6513.36,"text":"主動性違規跟非主動性違規以及道路設計不良的違規這些全部都要算在我駕駛人身上嗎請大家思考這個問題那對我們在開車的計程車司機公平嗎"},{"start":6519.987,"end":6534.003,"text":"違規停車我把它分成兩件事情我覺得大家也要先定義清楚第一件事情是違規停車如果今天我白目道我今天在紅線上面我就把車停在那邊我人就走了我就停一個晚上這誰的錯我的錯啊"},{"start":6536.616,"end":6536.736,"text":"零時違規停車"},{"start":6556.69,"end":6584.619,"text":"那這個責任到底 兩個的責任到底是誰要來負這個責任啊我們應該先把它釐清這件事 這兩個維庭的事情當你維庭之後你就會發現 大家把它釐清之後把前面這 我提的這兩個 這幾個東西先把它釐清之後大家就比較容易有共識 才有辦法繼續可以走了下去謝謝 在下一頁好 如果今天道路交通處罰條例不修正"},{"start":6585.765,"end":6613.107,"text":"會有什麼結果你我的生活會有什麼結果來 下一頁在行人聯盟的角度我可以跟你保證絕對不會有受傷人數減少死亡人數減少為什麼因為現在你們只要求一件事情硬體改善可是在死亡跟受傷這件事情是只有硬體改善就可以解決了嗎如果我們今天以日本的"},{"start":6615.682,"end":6640.183,"text":"經驗日本花了30年去改善硬體交通可是你們從來不提一件事情日本在教育這一塊到底做了多少事情用路人包含駕駛包含機車包含行人不要把所有的用路人歸咎於駕駛這件事情來 下一頁對消費者哩"},{"start":6641.485,"end":6656.177,"text":"如果今天道路交通處罰條例你不修正你我的生活我跟各位保證一件事情你有沒有發現今天捷運停擺了你最需要誰計程車司機啊我跟各位報告啊今天早上Uber的費率4倍你知道為什麼嗎捷運停擺早上沒有司機要出來啊知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":6666.926,"end":6693.877,"text":"因為我們司機收到的檢舉在我們司機的3000人群裏面所有的司機都說我現在被檢舉的時間都是白天的尖峰上班時間啊檢舉達人車外站去上班啦車開了去上班行車記錄器記錄一個早上啊下了班他把他檢舉出來啊所以我們的經驗是告訴你現在最大的檢舉都是在尖峰時間所以現在尖峰時間消費者叫不到車啊"},{"start":6695.206,"end":6721.191,"text":"為什麼 因為司機不敢出來啊另外 違停的部分 客人要我在這裡下車 我不下車我跟各位講啊 我前一陣子才被客人揍了兩拳啊就因為他叫我停在那邊 我跟他說我沒辦法停我被他尻了兩拳 他賠了我五千塊這種問題你今天道路交通管理不處罰 不修正消費者跟司機之間的衝突就會越來越多再下一頁 謝謝"},{"start":6723.027,"end":6738.678,"text":"對司機來講我今天不太想一直在講司機的立場我覺得我們要講的是所有這個社會今天你不修正它會產生所有的問題司機的收入會越來越低罰單會越來越多生活就會斷垂這是司機的角度再下一頁"},{"start":6739.719,"end":6758.831,"text":"立法委員的角度呢?現在總共開了多少的罰單?如果今天這個修正條例,我們的委員不願意去面對,就會產生民怨最後我要提醒一件事情,如果今天反對的委員,請你給我30分鐘你來坐我的車看看,你就知道困難到底在哪裡"},{"start":6760.009,"end":6762.852,"text":"臺灣全國汽車駕駛人權益聯盟理事長劉鴻章 請準備"},{"start":6777.844,"end":6778.304,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6794.807,"end":6822.044,"text":"7 繳罰單然後心痛5秒鐘因為不是只有要罰錢而已違規祭典事實上希望能夠落實祭典制度來減少重大那個違規累犯還有落實從人管理來增加我們的道安那事實上目前我們現在看到這幾年國際對於道路交通安全事故的防治策略多半會採安全系統導向的來避免造成致命性的跟嚴重傷害的一些事故"},{"start":6822.564,"end":6823.365,"text":"實證基礎 譬如頻率 嚴重性"},{"start":6847.568,"end":6847.728,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6871.278,"end":6896.791,"text":"淘汰要我們的闖紅燈跟嚴重超速這重大違規者因為剛剛前面就講說有些嚴重又常發生的屬於不可容忍的那個風險就應該要優先來做處理了可是當把這個拿掉的時候進舉不祭典的時候這兩個我們就看下一頁事實上重大違規以半年為比較基礎2到3年違規再犯人數倍增的"},{"start":6896.971,"end":6897.391,"text":"道路交通安全觀測"},{"start":6918.419,"end":6938.713,"text":"那兩年內闖紅燈四次以上者發生事故的風險是一次的二到三倍所以闖紅燈本來就會事實上會再度的再發生而且它的致死率又是這麼的高的時候那反而不把它拿掉我也想問的是交通部到底考量的會是什麼下一頁那國內的違規項目裡邊的風險這個分級表這一樣也是交通部的一些資料那這邊"},{"start":6947.139,"end":6963.053,"text":"所謂的致死模式跟發生事故的模式 裏邊各位可以看到超速違規停車跟闖紅燈 這三個反而會是在這次裏邊可能就會即將被排除 如果沒有通過啊 這類風險 高風險行為將不會再透過違規祭典難以遏止危險駕駛人 下一頁那所以這十項裏邊所謂的"},{"start":6973.102,"end":6996.261,"text":"為罪不祭典來下一頁那我們自己再看就是說國內外的研究都指出交通部自有運營所這就是你的幕僚單位你的幕僚單位本來就提醒在2016年的時候他就有針對於民國96年到100年間85萬件跟機車相關的交通事故就發現在入段當中機車跟小型車已入邊停靠問題"},{"start":6997.422,"end":7024.98,"text":"導致車禍是最為主要的占了20.6%德國相同也是有這樣的一個研究在2020年的時候發表這個研究也說近五分之一的行人跟自行車車事故跟路邊停車有關那表示什麼闖紅燈、超速跟路邊停車這件事情都是會造成嚴重的死亡或者是致死率比較高的或是傷害比較高的一些事件下一頁"},{"start":7026.662,"end":7028.224,"text":"本來就嚴重部署 實務上也都在處理文書工作根本沒有到路邊去做"},{"start":7044.062,"end":7044.302,"text":"立法院第11會議"},{"start":7063.524,"end":7087.534,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":7089.322,"end":7097.506,"text":"謝謝現在請全國台灣汽車駕駛人權益聯盟理事長劉鴻章理事長發言下一位請台灣機車路權促進會羅伊理事準備"},{"start":7101.773,"end":7125.172,"text":"主席各位先進大家好我請代表全國汽車駕駛人權聯盟這邊來做一個報告剛剛之前所有的我們職業團體其實說的都很清楚那些條條款款的東西我們就不再多說我們現在主要我們要要求的是我們職業駕駛"},{"start":7126.673,"end":7126.713,"text":"主席"},{"start":7136.588,"end":7158.492,"text":"我們剛剛聽到交通部司長林司長對於在課綱第3點第8頁地方有說到很多的道路規劃改善我們要提出的就是說我們職業駕駛每天有10萬輛的計程車在外面在車道在行駛的時候"},{"start":7164.653,"end":7171.862,"text":"每天有200萬次的上車跟下車那在道路這麼使用頻繁的情況之下"},{"start":7174.617,"end":7195.919,"text":"請問我們職業駕駛上下車處在哪裡我們要提出這一點就是因為道路工程改善還沒有完善之前為什麼我們會提出這種抗議從去年6月30開始的時候我一再的提出人車分流人就是行人"},{"start":7197.28,"end":7212.069,"text":"車就是我們職業駕駛一般的駕駛人那在這個道路的人車交通號誌沒有做一個分立的話常常就會造成用路人跟職業駕駛這些駕駛人的一個衝突"},{"start":7215.37,"end":7232.922,"text":"在國外我之前都有談過在國外人家這個車輛如果綠燈的時候那行人一定是紅燈的他不會讓行人跟車輛去產生衝突產生在這個危險的這個路口但我們台灣的路口很奇怪"},{"start":7234.376,"end":7257.309,"text":"我們請放第一張圖片剛剛大家手上都有一個文宣在第二頁的地方交通部在對於這個路口10公尺禁止臨時停車我們如何界定如何界定這個路口這個標誌交通部明文有規定但是地方政府在劃設這些停車格"},{"start":7258.49,"end":7258.61,"text":"修法公聽會．"},{"start":7271.957,"end":7298.094,"text":"被違規檢舉那這個交通法入口怎麼去界定這10公尺那這有四個版本大家可以好好仔細看一下我們希望這個部分交通部能夠將這個10公尺這個空間把它界定清楚還有車道車道是供汽車來使用並不是停車格我們的停車格真的是劃好劃滿"},{"start":7299.235,"end":7299.996,"text":"10公尺不能停車11到20公尺能不能界定避車彎"},{"start":7316.189,"end":7316.549,"text":"主席"},{"start":7339.071,"end":7347.3,"text":"謝謝我們現在請臺灣機車路權促進會羅怡理事發言下一位劉雪婷立委請準備"},{"start":7356.958,"end":7372.214,"text":"主席各位委員還有各位團體代表大家好我是台灣機車路線促進會的理事羅怡那我在這邊我們必須要為機車的用路人來發聲我們必須要去說明說若依照這次行政院交通部所提出的道路交通管理修正案來這樣子順利通過的話"},{"start":7374.156,"end":7390.55,"text":"那未來在台灣的路徹他所形成的一個狀態就是路徹就完全開放給所有的用路人來停車而且呢我們被圍停所妨礙交通的人民並沒有權利可以來救濟的管道以我們自己的經驗我們打電話給警察說有違規停車"},{"start":7395.182,"end":7413.351,"text":"之前有人說10分鐘之前就會到案我相信這個非常違背我們自己的個人經驗我自己曾經在新店打電話舉報人行到上面的違停我打了三通一個小時打了三通警察第二個小時後才來而且更重要的是來他也只是開單他並沒有辦法直接去排除這樣子違停的一種樣態"},{"start":7414.451,"end":7432.741,"text":"所以它的危害依然在那我們的機車的用路人我們不只要去面對路側的違停的車輛在內側車道又有進行機車我們必須要強調說在許多的縣市仍然是有試車道但是內側是進行機車的設計在新北市這樣的地方就有很多那路側充滿違停但內側又進行機車我們想請問機車應該去騎什麼樣的路"},{"start":7439.145,"end":7465.707,"text":"機車用路人安全行駛的權利在哪裡而且更荒謬的是絕大部分的圍停依照這次的草案依照這次的修正不能夠被檢舉、祭典那機車為了閃避外側的圍停起到內側進行街道反而可以被檢舉反而可以被算是違規定行駛車道而且更荒謬大家想像一個畫面圍停的車輛的駕駛人可以坐在車上然後呢去拍照檢舉那一些"},{"start":7466.688,"end":7467.108,"text":"修法公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":7489.162,"end":7489.382,"text":"修法公聽會議"},{"start":7508.111,"end":7525.096,"text":"財安全的交通環境然後造成大家都買車造成停車會供不應求然後又把機車最後面可以去行駛的外側的空間提供給各種車輛來維挺為什麼機車用路人總是被犧牲的那一個明明台灣就有一千多萬輛的機車我們認為整個道交條例違規紀點的檢舉還有包含檢舉制度確實有討論的空間"},{"start":7533.078,"end":7559.272,"text":"各類的用路人在現在極度不完善的道路的交通設計環境之下的確常常會被迫違規如同剛剛的許多職業價值團體、貨運司機團體所談到的一樣但是我們認為機車用路人的權益卻始終不被中央跟地方的行政機關所重視我們看見這些制度可以被改革但必須要有相應的配套哪怕是說像剛剛有談到貨運司機他們有停車的需求"},{"start":7561.733,"end":7575.833,"text":"你在停車的時候 在旁邊加一個三角錐去警示每一年都有機車的用路人 撞到貨車他那個後板 四條那種的 那種奧巴馬撞到 然後失手分離每一年都有這樣的狀況"},{"start":7576.874,"end":7592.056,"text":"我們只要求說至少他會有相關的配套讓我們有個安全行駛的空間我們期待也懇求行政跟立法機關可以看見機車用路人的需求看見全台灣一千多萬輛機車的安全的需求"},{"start":7593.874,"end":7609.559,"text":"機車在內側不能夠行駛內側車道機車不能夠去用內側相對安全的行駛空間因為道安99條的打壓已經長達數十年如今外側車道又要被拿去全面開放停車這樣子毫無配套措施的修法"},{"start":7611.44,"end":7616.983,"text":"我們臺灣機車路權促進會實在是很難說我們贊同最後面我們也要去補充今天地震剛剛看到蘇發又坍塌了機車不能夠騎蘇花改不能夠騎南花改不能夠去騎這種安全的道路在市區道路外側車道未來充滿了違規停車內側車道又不能夠騎外側車道違規不能夠被檢舉不能夠被進點機車散圍停到內側車道"},{"start":7636.275,"end":7636.295,"text":"謝謝在"},{"start":7666.909,"end":7687.286,"text":"接下來請劉許廷立委來發言下一位請運輸移動科技派遣平台協會的秘書長曾宏毅秘書長準備主席不好意思我們放一下投影片好不好"},{"start":7698.082,"end":7718.614,"text":"好 謝謝主席這我想今天這個我要先對交通部跟警政署的兩份報告提出一些指教這個我們現在在討論這個修法條例的報告那大家當然在討論到底哪一些算違罪不舉也就是說這個檢舉制度在反變化前後但我沒有在這份報告裡面看到任何的數據資料到底有多少"},{"start":7719.975,"end":7741.276,"text":"多少件的檢舉案件是由個人所為還是由團體所為造成什麼樣的影響你們對於違罪的定義到底是什麼有什麼樣的數據跟理據做支撐這裡面通通都沒有這我覺得是不夠周延的那當然你可以講今天是一個公聽會的場合然後大家各抒己見這我不反對但是馬上我們要進入條文審查的時候我希望這些資料可以被確保第二個我會譴責一下警政署"},{"start":7742.037,"end":7769.666,"text":"李先生在上面堂而皇之地寫說﹖經評估於實務﹖讓違罪不舉這件事情﹖並無自愛難行﹖所以可以配合交通部來辦理說﹖如果民眾認為這個交通違規有害交通秩序﹖可以打110﹖讓員警實施現場稽查﹖不會影響民眾協助警察改善交通秩序的權利你警政署真的有接地氣嗎本席過去是桃園市議員我非常瞭解基層警力不足的狀況"},{"start":7771.223,"end":7771.583,"text":"今天我們要討論這個"},{"start":7799.918,"end":7824.051,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例的熱修正這我們都同意每一個政策在推動的時候它應該要反覆平衡這是沒有錯的但是反覆平衡平衡機制不表示政策可以反覆改變過去我們都講說有檢舉機制後來很多人抗議所以變成所謂的違罪布局違罪布局上路之後發現台灣變成真正的行人地獄所以在去年的6月底的時候"},{"start":7825.692,"end":7854.647,"text":"有通盤檢討不只把檢舉機制恢復還加上了祭典制度那現在當然就變成職業駕駛受創甚深那到現在當然因應民怨照理來講這政策要針對執行之後去做檢討去做平衡在兩兆的意見中找中間點這叫政治可是問題是我們的政府直接大開倒車又回到過去所謂為罪不舉的這個狀況那這真的是一個合理的措施嗎我想請大家看一張照片我們今天啊"},{"start":7855.714,"end":7868.951,"text":"包含內政部前一段時間我們都講說我們要有更友善的行人設施我們編很多的預算在本區的選區龜山這工程叫長根新驛站是一個人本的人行道的工程本區非常支持我也覺得他非常好但是我告訴你他蓋出來現在長這個樣子"},{"start":7871.141,"end":7898.501,"text":"摩托車直接騎在人行道上把人行道當成機車的快速道路這項狀況一大堆我們政府投資了超過3億元拓寬人行道但是如果我們沒有與時俱進去讓用路人有更進步的觀念有更安全的觀念沒有逐步培養他良好習慣的過程我們花再多的資源去投入人本工程請問會有意義嗎所以我覺得這件事情當然需要妥善的檢討"},{"start":7900.204,"end":7929.144,"text":"適當的平衡不應該變成政策的反覆本席在這邊有幾個意見跟大家做報告第一個我們理解如果用祭典制度的話絕對會衝擊職業價值的生計這一點我也要請這個相關的入權的團體要稍微能夠諒解因為我們都同意阿現在的硬體配套是不夠完整的如果踩得太嚴格相對來講另外一邊也有不同意見所以我們要在這個過程中求取平衡所以祭典機制應該在法規上修法予以檢討這本席竟表同意"},{"start":7930.024,"end":7948.411,"text":"第二 我覺得檢舉的數量是不是能夠做一個討論跟限制因為我們調局資料 比如說桃園市有一半年檢舉九千多件剛剛前面也有講 台北市一年檢舉一萬多件少數人的特別強力的行為反而招致了這個機制 沒有辦法順利的來平衡"},{"start":7951.613,"end":7965.095,"text":"這兩件事可以特案檢討但是這兩件事情的特案檢討並不表示我們交通部可以一推265所以我們通通改成違罪不舉然後把這個問題通通交給社會承擔這叫成本外部化這我們完全不能夠同意"},{"start":7966.072,"end":7983.292,"text":"那本期是內政委員會的委員會要特別提醒你用這種方式絕對基層的警力是非常非常大的負擔啦你如果要講說我們有機會可以說所謂的違罪布局或者是回歸政府執行的機制我就問我們的交通助理員呢我們相關的科技執法這些配套呢這些東西有上路嗎"},{"start":7984.253,"end":8010.373,"text":"這些東西如果沒有上路的時候你把這些東西全部用違罪布局的角度然後把它推得一干二淨難道我們不會再往行人地獄又靠近嗎我再次強調我們可以平衡但不能反覆現在政府的方向就是反覆本來可以不要現在又很嚴格不是很嚴格就是通通沒有這方向絕對不正確我們希望在今天的公聽會還有接下來法條主要審查大家可以發揮理性務實的精神"},{"start":8011.513,"end":8015.195,"text":"讓這個政策可以回到平衡的機制而不是反反覆覆的改變 以上謝謝"},{"start":8025.986,"end":8052.345,"text":"陳凱琳理事長發言完畢之後我們休息10分鐘第二我們中午會準備便當各位與會團體我們這個便當是由交通委員會處理那交通部沒有處理我們的便當他們便當他們自己處理大家可以放心另外我們還有一些團體代表"},{"start":8053.126,"end":8076.471,"text":"因為高鐵的相關交通系統的延誤還沒有到達現場他們也轉達訊息說他們一定會到如果我們第一輪發言完畢之後還沒有到的這些團體代表來到現場我們還是會給他第一輪五分鐘的時間先向各位做個說明現在請曾宏毅秘書長來做"},{"start":8080.797,"end":8104.067,"text":"陳宏義秘書長下一位請交通安全協會陳宏義理事長準備主席各位與會先進大家早安我想我們台灣運輸業派遣平台協會其實我們主要的成員是所謂的平台業者運輸業然後你使用APP或是科技運輸派遣的"},{"start":8104.707,"end":8109.37,"text":"臺灣大車隊臺灣最大的建車派遣平臺他們的平臺就有兩個顧客一個是駕駛因為駕駛是透過這個平臺在載客另外一個更大的"},{"start":8130.553,"end":8158.97,"text":"對象就是我們的消費者也就是我們的乘客所以其實我們自己的角色裡面就會同時看到兩端給我們的訊息一方面是司機給我們的反饋一方面是我們的乘客給我們的反饋那我們協會裡面包括像Fu Panda他們自己也是一樣他們這樣的平台他們也有所謂的外送員跟他們的乘客訂戶的這樣的一個狀況那所以站在這個角度來看其實我們今天看到這樣的一個會議好像感覺上是"},{"start":8161.231,"end":8185.514,"text":"消費者行人跟駕駛在做衝突這一點我們事實上是很掙扎的因為我們事實上同時看到了兩端的狀況今天我們來檢討這個問題的是整個問題的根源大家都希望能夠促進交通安全我想所有的用路人也都是希望這個目標但是可能大家都忽略了一點我們今天在看這個問題的時候如果真的要徹底解決交通問題"},{"start":8192.496,"end":8211.801,"text":"三角形的三個端點包含三個成分一個是用路人一個是法規一個是道路環境一個是空間一個是使用者一個是規範這三個是同時構成我們交通安全因素的三個重要成因"},{"start":8212.401,"end":8240.511,"text":"那我們今天去年6月在處理的問題是什麼是在法規方面做處理那這個處理的結果是什麼就是用路人跟現況環境沒有同步處理的情況底下我們只著重在法規那當然就是失衡嘛因為真正的重點事實上是用路人啊用路人如何有一個好的一個習慣或者是好的環境來共同使用這個道路這個才是真正的交通安全的重點"},{"start":8241.371,"end":8267.003,"text":"所以也因為去年6月這樣的一個處理的結果我們也聽到我們的駕駛員包含外送員也好他們每天在道路上所碰到的問題都是不得不違規然後不得不被檢舉不得不因為生計的問題而必須去做出許多奇奇怪怪的手段比如說我們也接到很多司機跟我們告訴我們說他們現在不太敢去載所謂的身葬者"},{"start":8267.643,"end":8267.803,"text":"修法公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":8287.968,"end":8306.537,"text":"強加用把所有的重點都放在所謂的法規上面所導致的結果所以這樣的失衡如果真的要解決我們當然也要去做一個適度的導正所以今天交通部所提出來這個修法的大方向我們是支持的因為確實是矯枉過正導致了"},{"start":8309.638,"end":8326.83,"text":"現在道路上使用者不含消費者跟所謂的職業駕駛之間的這樣的一個失衡的狀況這個方向絕對是要討論的 絕對是要檢討的那至於說 細部上到底要怎麼來檢討我們也同意就是說 今天所謂的違罪的這個項目裡面"},{"start":8329.059,"end":8353.292,"text":"有關於現狀底下職業駕駛無法實際符合這個法規的狀況我們一定要把它做一個調整那至於這個以外的跟所謂職業駕駛生計或者是實際駕駛無法實際遵守以外的這些條款我們也認為這個東西是可以討論的不一定要完全不能夠去做調整所以我想這個方向上我希望大家今天"},{"start":8354.349,"end":8380.073,"text":"不管是路權團體不管是我們的駕駛員團體我們不應該是站在一個對立的一個立場反而應該是從今天開始大家應該坐下來好好從我剛剛提到這三個角度我們共同來要求政府不管中央政府地方政府針對這三個端點一定要同時去做有效的調整而不是一直著重在法規的部分因為法規是最後面重點還是在"},{"start":8380.333,"end":8381.893,"text":"現在請交通安全協會陳宏毅理事長發言下一位洪森漢委員請準備"},{"start":8417.331,"end":8444.088,"text":"各位先進 各位指導我們大家安全這個教育的這個各個單位那臺灣交通安全協會理事長陳榮毅第一次的發言對於這一次我們的這個道路交通管理處罰條例這個公聽會我們提出的最重要就是說我們常常講交通的三個E但是我們常常忘記了交通有三個S"},{"start":8445.796,"end":8462.909,"text":"三個S呢 今天大家會在這裡第一個就是說 我們少了三個S哪三個S 給用路人的選擇權 我們失去了選擇權因為他沒有第二個的service 就是在道路的規劃建設上面他沒有提供給我們路陣的服務 還有這個周邊道路設計的服務"},{"start":8467.012,"end":8490.85,"text":"然後第三個才是Security是對我們的保護現在講都在為我們保護但是我們已經沒有了選擇權沒有接受到良好的設計的服務我們的安全本來就不存在嘛所以在於這個我們專注於這個違規取締還有超速區間測速你看這幾年來我們的交通事故量有降低嗎我們的傷亡有減少嗎"},{"start":8492.071,"end":8519.79,"text":"有沒有 沒有嘛 為什麼我們不用看這些枝端末節什麼第幾條可以選 第幾條不可以這個檢舉我跟你講啦 我們去檢舉的時候還要拿個筆記型電腦先查說它是違規是第幾條嗎我們以後報警跟報火災一樣小火 幾級火災我們才可以報警嗎是這樣嗎 這個公民參與的我們整個社會的 這個公民社會的造成本來我們大家熱衷於在這個交通"},{"start":8521.572,"end":8545.868,"text":"處理的這些熱心民眾他要怎麼來自處 他怎麼來檢舉 他怎麼來舉法這一點我覺得非常之不妥再來對於應該不以事後舉法為主要的目的現在行政機關把這些東西都給民間去網內互打我們這個檢舉那個 這個檢舉那個但是實際上大家都是共同用戶人"},{"start":8547.145,"end":8563.164,"text":"在這個專門這個檢舉的部分我們希望要以警務人員現場的巡邏還有交通警務人員執行人員做現場的舉發因為最重要我們交通不是要拿錢我覺得政府用這個取錢的條件"},{"start":8564.125,"end":8564.446,"text":"修法公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":8582.128,"end":8582.709,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會議"},{"start":8602.27,"end":8624.309,"text":"去借駕照來抵押所以我們把它廢掉現在這個祭典沒有抓到人我一樣可以再叫別人來代替我去買那個點數他來當我人頭那這個祭典有什麼效果所以他把這個行政的責任呢完全丟給了民間對不對你自己去舉發然後要錄影要錄三分鐘錄三分鐘早就被人家打了啦"},{"start":8624.969,"end":8625.829,"text":"執業駕駛 不怕罰錢 怕記點 一般駕駛人"},{"start":8648.174,"end":8648.294,"text":"發言委員："},{"start":8661.132,"end":8677.529,"text":"所以我們這個行車記錄器跟手機的拍照不應該成為我們裁罰的基準我們連區間測數的器材怎麼都要經過官方認證才能來做裁罰的能夠裁罰的一定是官方的器材"},{"start":8678.71,"end":8694.237,"text":"我們明天用的東西不是拿來送給警方 讓他來做裁罰的工具他們就在裡面收單 製單 然後投票把這個選舉票送給民眾這一點我們覺得非常的不好啦"},{"start":8695.898,"end":8713.032,"text":"應該是呢 我們要保障我們的行車記錄器呢是在有事故發生的時候 證明我們有什麼損傷而不是拿來到處亂拍一切的東西都是行政單位 警務 內政部 交通部要負起他行政的責任"},{"start":8713.692,"end":8739.519,"text":"而不應該把這個檢舉現在這個好像是我們是民眾的錯應該民眾來負擔交通的事故的問題這個千萬不可用這樣的心態來做處理我報告這樣第一階段的發言完畢 謝謝好 謝謝現在請洪森漢委員發言下一位請行人臨時網推動聯盟陳凱琳理事長準備陳凱琳理事長發言完畢之後我們休息10分鐘"},{"start":8743.209,"end":8765.845,"text":"主席好今天是有關我們大家條例是不是要修正的公聽會當然我們現在看到這個修法的預告其實有引發了不論是駕駛者或者是我們民間路權團體的很多的討論今天我大概就針對兩個部分想要針對交通部來提出一些提醒跟要求"},{"start":8767.066,"end":8795.159,"text":"那過去我們其實在道交條例裡面放入民眾檢舉的機制或擴大民眾檢舉的機制其實最重要的原因其實是因為當時大家意識到我們執法的警力不足這是當時很重要的原因但當我們今天發現可能這個民眾檢舉機制的擴張也帶來了一些不必要的焦慮不必要的負面的效應也許真的有那衍生了一些其他的問題"},{"start":8796.4,"end":8817.559,"text":"那北方說我看到交通部也說警察人力不足以負荷檢舉案件的處理那我們現在就想要再大幅的限縮這個民眾檢舉機制的適用但我覺得這個每個管理的方法的優缺點我認為都可以討論也不是不能夠修改但我還是想問一個最核心的問題就是當初我們納入民眾檢舉機制時當時的那個警力不足"},{"start":8820.902,"end":8828.119,"text":"指法能量不足的那個問題接下來交通部跟我們內政部跟我們警政署打算怎麼來去處理跟面對這個問題因為這個問題還是存在"},{"start":8830.615,"end":8851.647,"text":"那現在今天面對交通執法端的問題不管是民眾檢舉或警察的執法我都覺得這是可以理性評估跟理性討論的那併成所有方案的優點跟缺點但在目前交通部的整個的版本跟相關的配套裡面我還是說需要是回應那警力執法不足的問題你們打算怎麼辦"},{"start":8853.291,"end":8863.828,"text":"這個事情不能丟著不放所以如果你們不打算就像接下來可能要限縮祭典的狀況的話那你們會打算不要說提高"},{"start":8865.179,"end":8866.059,"text":"第二點在這次道交條例調整不計點的項目裡面"},{"start":8892.426,"end":8917.479,"text":"那哪些是現在職業駕駛在交通工程不完善的狀況下會面對的交通困境我覺得這些困境是可以減少使用記點的方式來影響我們職業駕駛的生計的這部分我覺得我是同意的但哪一些駕駛者其實沒有這樣的需求但若有這樣子的行為樣態其實對我們的交通安全和交通空間的分配會有很大影響的"},{"start":8918.939,"end":8946.496,"text":"這個事情我覺得交通部必須更細膩的來討論我這邊舉個例子像這一次我們討論到不依順行方向臨時停車其實簡單的說就是逆向停車我相信其實現在恐怕沒有什麼駕駛會來說我逆向但我想要不記點因為逆向真的是一件蠻嚴重的事情其實對於交通的危害秩序的危害是很大的"},{"start":8946.869,"end":8963.454,"text":"但現在是因為他的罰環在1200以下所以我們現在就一刀切說他不需記點可是我們都知道這個樣態你說逆向停車這個我認為恐怕很少駕駛會真的去犯到這一條對不對而且也不會故意也很難不小心對不對"},{"start":8964.054,"end":8993.287,"text":"可是這一條現在我們說因為1200以下所以不需祭典那我認為這個部分像這個項目我覺得是有點問題的這是可以討論的另外或者是大家之前這段時間也討論到保障身上者的權益跟需求所以身心障礙專用停車違規停車的部分其實我覺得也不應該被放在這一次可免於祭典的範圍內這當然是對我們身上者權益的保護所以綜合來說其實我們這次列出了所謂的10個項目裡面我覺得每一項可以細緻的去看待"},{"start":8993.687,"end":9021.121,"text":"也許有一些真的是因為我們交通工程設計的不當其實我們的這個駕駛真的蠻難去避免的或蠻難去避那我覺得這部分是可以討論的可是就像我剛舉例的這兩項那我們現在所有一併因為那一刀切都不用記點了這也蠻奇怪的所以我自己是希望說交通部在這一次修法以罰還1200做一刀切的這個標準下其實我覺得這個好像不是一個很細膩的處理的方法來去處理"},{"start":9022.262,"end":9032.92,"text":"交通行為裡面各方的意見跟樣態所產生的影響那這是我期待說等下到時候道交條例進到文匯修訂的時候每一個項目我們是可以來仔細的再來看待"},{"start":9033.319,"end":9034.94,"text":"還有沒有再修正的必要"},{"start":9056.28,"end":9083.629,"text":"好 謝謝現在請行人臨時網推動聯盟陳凱琳理事長來做說明在陳理事長說明之前交通部王國采部長在相關的交通系統的安全掌握狀況有做初步處理之後也立即趕到我們公聽會的現場等一下向各位做個說明陳理事長發言完畢之後"},{"start":9085.749,"end":9112.167,"text":"我們會請王國采部長來做相關的一個初步的報告但是王國采王部長報告完了之後我認為他還是要去掌握全國目前的這些交通系統的安全狀況這是最重要在目前最重要的一個狀況那陳英博次長跟主導修法的這個狀況掌握林福山次長也會在這邊向各位來做個說明謝謝陳理事長謝謝"},{"start":9116.434,"end":9117.595,"text":"陳理事長不好意思不好意思"},{"start":9136.691,"end":9153.717,"text":"好 我們時間從頭開始好 非常感謝那我們今天看到這個行政院通過這次的修法草案有10項的違規不開放民眾檢舉祭典我們當然也理解到職業駕駛必定有他們的需求他們會在道路工程改善以前會需要有一些聆聽的空間"},{"start":9154.757,"end":9174.998,"text":"但是我們看到其中有一些項目我們覺得非常的匪夷所思第一個 機車騎士有沒有戴安全帽第二個 機車騎士手持電話第三個 汽機車手持香煙開車騎車抽煙這真的是職業駕駛的需求嗎我們是非常不認同那再接下來到所謂這個臨停跟違停的部分"},{"start":9175.885,"end":9199.934,"text":"林婷在路側的紅線上本身就已經不開放檢舉了那我們現在又再去開放包括說人行道、閒人穿越道、交叉路口、公車站以及並排的林婷這些東西本來就會造成比較危險的交通事故以及會去侵害到無論是我們今天有到道場的身障朋友或是其他老人家推娃娃車的人在"},{"start":9201.094,"end":9228.624,"text":"現在人行道已經非常的不足我們看到各地各個地方的比例甚至可以不到50%的道路有人行道的情況下這個路側這人行道行人穿越道再去開放說違停不能夠檢舉也不會去做祭典來淘汰不適應的駕駛那我們最弱勢的用路人要怎麼安全的走在路上當然審計是非常重要但是不應該是用壓迫其他的更弱勢的用路人的方式來爭取來處理"},{"start":9230.325,"end":9244.672,"text":"我們認為說一定是在檢舉制度 包含說前面司長提到說這次主要的問題是跟拍檢舉 是不時呈報的架勢 是工程道路要改善 那請問這10項 哪一項可以改善這些問題根本就沒有"},{"start":9246.172,"end":9259.177,"text":"檢舉制度一定是可以再去調整的可以去優化一些實際上的這個技術面去解決跟拍檢舉這些的問題而不是去讓因為檢舉的數量太多那我們來檢舉檢舉量而不是去檢舉違規量才對吧"},{"start":9264.306,"end":9285.286,"text":"三萬多的檢舉量很多那我們是不是應該讓違規人數下降而不是說那我們就不要檢舉了就讓他們繼續違規可是我們不要去讓警務人員處理這些問題這個完全是一個錯誤的邏輯可能那職業駕駛的需求在去年11月交通部這邊也已經有修法將路測的這個上下課改為不予祭典"},{"start":9285.646,"end":9307.48,"text":"並且在當時11月的時候也有提出並排停車的部分本來要公告也開放不祭典但是後來因為交通部也知道說並排停車對交通危害重大所以也發文改為不開放那這次不僅又決定開放甚至是擴大開放到連檢舉都不行那並排停到底是危險還是不危險為什麼短短不到半年可以改來改去改了三次"},{"start":9309.883,"end":9336.264,"text":"請問並排林婷她對交通有危險程度交通部到底有沒有去評估我們認為如果要提出這樣子的修法案這十項各項對於交通事故的危害程度各項每年造成事故的數據報告是不是應該要提出來那我們在過去跟交通部所知的過程中也一直都沒有取得資料我們修法部應該是憑感覺感覺一千兩百元好像就不影不影響交通不影響"},{"start":9337.425,"end":9363.557,"text":"這個安全我們應該來看科學數據但是我們到現在都沒有看到交通部這邊有提出什麼實務的數據來那第二個實務的數據面交通部說因為這個被影響到的職業價值很多所以調控數量太多了應付不來那我們也想知道實際上的數據往年的調控數到底是多少我們昨天終於看到資料相關的數據"},{"start":9365.768,"end":9388.973,"text":"去年的調控總數是50470件111年的調控總數是69620件也就是去年整整下降了19000件調控數是下降的職業駕駛的調控人數也從3000件降到2000件也就是說在檢舉跟祭典制度變得更加嚴厲之後"},{"start":9391.045,"end":9411.261,"text":"馬路上面會去違規的吊客跟職業駕駛都有去新生警惕那它是一個很好的成果為什麼會有這種什麼吊客數變得很多應付不來的結論數據是從哪裡來的這些數據本來就掌握在交通部手上為什麼今天可以這樣子去製造一個根本就不存在的議題出來"},{"start":9412.302,"end":9440.817,"text":"我們不能夠理解在職業駕駛的需求除了講到前面紅線的部分已經不得檢舉也有本來就已經有違罪不罰的相關法條例如說在這個處理細則第12條之5規定在上下課 汽車上下課上下或有臨時停車的情形沒有妨礙到人車通行可以勸導代替舉發以及剛才的這個曾秘書長提到在接一些行動不便的老人家的時候會領停超過3分鐘"},{"start":9441.437,"end":9451.44,"text":"本來就有7歲以下及行動不便在路側上下課不受零停3分鐘的限制這些法規本來就有 違規本來就已經不舉發了我們認為不應該再擴大這些問題 去讓馬路上的安全問題變得更危險 謝謝好 謝謝現在"},{"start":9462.118,"end":9481.728,"text":"請王國才部長來做報告及說明那王部長報告完畢之後我們休息10分鐘那王部長也必須要繼續趕回去掌握全國交通系統的安全狀況因為餘震也不斷這個部長的責任也非常重大來請部長說明"},{"start":9488.295,"end":9503.603,"text":"各位委員還有現場很多專家團體很謝謝你們的這個參與因為剛剛的確我們現在比較嚴重是花東的鐵公路都中斷了所以剛剛還在吊那個包台北快輪跟明天的新台馬輪"},{"start":9504.804,"end":9534.285,"text":"所以也花一些時間現在都在清查每一段有沒有人在那邊現在是整個發動是很危險所以待會可能要過去一下但是我在這邊還是要跟主席還有各位委員還有各位路前團體還有我們駕駛團體來談來做一個報告就是說去年大概這個時候事實上立法院當時在審查這個處罰條例當時是這個民眾檢舉是因為當時的婚委是新任地域"},{"start":9535.005,"end":9559.722,"text":"所以我想跟大家報告我們改善行人這件事情到現在為止包括我們各種這種指引還有包括我們永續提升人行安全計畫400億從113到116這個都在進行那另外內政部的這個行人交通安全設施條例這是跟我們配套的也就是說如果就行人的入權的部分"},{"start":9561.124,"end":9561.504,"text":"修法公聽會："},{"start":9582.432,"end":9582.712,"text":"主席"},{"start":9602.697,"end":9630.222,"text":"行人入選的部分也是同樣就是我們最重要一件事在進行但是在去年在修法這個時候在修法的時候民眾檢舉項目的46項到59項增加13項然後我們的祭典項目從25項增加到55項而且當時大家覺得用一個執法做一個短期的交易大家是認可的但這件事情做了以後事實上今天在場除了這個職業駕駛民眾"},{"start":9632.542,"end":9660.941,"text":"各種反應也都一直到這個交通部來就是影響他的生活比如接送小孩路邊時是要買個東西找不到可以都是紅線找不到可以停的地方所以他勢必違規所以在這種狀況下的確在去年這時候我們大家都說好像我退讓的確當時是這樣的氛圍但是實施以後花協這樣的民怨非常的深"},{"start":9662.022,"end":9662.162,"text":"修法公聽會議"},{"start":9674.076,"end":9692.296,"text":"如果民眾不檢舉 那是不是就不處罰 也不會 因為你現在用110或是你用APP 有一個叫110的視訊報案的APP 你都用這個APP是直接看到有一個違規停車在比如10公尺的地方 你還是可以報案警察來處理"},{"start":9693.317,"end":9715.23,"text":"那我跟大家報告就是說警察過去在處理比如說他看到的這些違規情形事實上他本身也不是說看到一定開罰他有的會驅離他覺得說趕快走但是如果在民眾檢疫這一塊就完全不在這是完全不在所以我們的想法就是說在所有剛剛談到的我們"},{"start":9716.431,"end":9742.84,"text":"四百億的經費還有包括內政部的行政交通設施條例這個就是往一個人本交通來做建設繼續做可是這個沒有做好以前的很多的相關的違規有些是環境造成的尤其很多是所謂靜態的停車的部分所以我們是希望說這個部分在這些還沒有做完以前能夠給大家一個時間要不然他們真的接送小孩什麼買早餐都變成"},{"start":9743.92,"end":9770.952,"text":"老亂他的生活那職業價值就是一直被祭奠所以我們大概有這樣的一個狀況那整個這個今天報告的這十項我覺得真的都可以討論我並不是那當時為什麼用1200元我們應該市長有報告嘛在處罰條例過去這一個所謂的這些我們裁判細則當時有一些叫做可以欠到不宜舉花的部分也是用1200元去訂的"},{"start":9772.725,"end":9801.252,"text":"那大家想說那去年有部分的修改今年怎麼又變成有這樣的一個規定因為去年是非常很亂的時候我們用那種局部的這個來改善今年我們希望用一個比較有系統性的所以用違罪這個觀念來作為改善這樣的話這個改善以後就會跟這個修法就會把去年的東西全部拿回來變成一個我們的系統性的修法就是比較違罪的部分"},{"start":9802.333,"end":9802.573,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9815.461,"end":9843.081,"text":"那當然就是說剛才有提到很多比如說機車的部分或是身輕障礙這個專用車的部分我想這部分都可以討論因為我如果一個系統性的修法我由交通部先先把什麼先砍掉也是爭議很大沒辦法討論所以我想說10點這10項的這個修法這個修理以後我們配合包括這個違規紀點來這個來處理我想說今天也聽大家的意見那"},{"start":9844.122,"end":9871.699,"text":"如果大家有一些共識我們願意來做一些調整我想說有很多立法院都有提到有一些項目他覺得比較嚴重那我想這部分就要有共識大家比如說大家所提的這些並排臨時停車並排停車是花2400臨時停車停一下子會在1200內但是並排停車是可以減給如果他停在那裡是可以減給也可以花款的"},{"start":9872.259,"end":9872.619,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9886.004,"end":9886.704,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9903.55,"end":9918.114,"text":"我們願意接受大家的指正來做一些調整謝謝好部長做初步的報告及說明那部長還是要立即趕回去掌握全國交通系統的安全狀況那我們現在休息我們11點半11點30分繼續開會"},{"start":10767.47,"end":10774.383,"text":"繼續開會現在請交通安全協會林志玄副理事長發言廖謙祥委員請準備"},{"start":10785.848,"end":10808.405,"text":"現場長官還有各位來賓大家好我是台灣交通安全協會副理事長林志學那今天這個修法呢我第一個非常要跟大家稍微回顧一下歷史就是說我們在這個執法的這個歷史一開始啊一開始我小時候爸爸媽媽教我的是那個路邊停車你不可以隨便亂停你隨便亂停干擾到車流人家萬一撞上來發生什麼事情的時候你這個停車的人要負責任"},{"start":10809.426,"end":10824.431,"text":"後來我越長越大開始可以自己取得駕照之後規則就變了開始路邊停車的人被警察抓了之後民意代表可能會去警察局把警察或是把局長抓出來拉整一下怎麼就改變了"},{"start":10826.434,"end":10849.406,"text":"久了之後路邊的這些干擾就沒有辦法再處理沒有辦法處理之後現在大家逼得不走檢舉這條路走檢舉這條路的時候它變成可以突破警方執法上面的一些選擇開始又可以回歸我們可以去處理路側干擾的問題回到今天我們又開始對這些路側干擾又回到不能檢舉的狀態"},{"start":10853.629,"end":10869.18,"text":"那這樣子這是從歷史的尺度啦我剛剛講的這個歷史的尺度不是3年5年可能是橫跨了10年到20年的尺度在這個路徹干擾的執法這件事情上面它就像鐘擺這樣擺過來擺過去擺過來擺過去擺過來到這邊的時候叫做危險擺過來到這邊的時候叫做罰單老百姓得到的東西就是包含"},{"start":10878.687,"end":10893.179,"text":"所有從事這個職業駕駛 這也是屬於老百姓民眾的一環大家得到的東西就始終只有兩種一種叫做危險 一種叫做罰單服務有沒有做改善 沒有太多的改善這樣子的鐘擺 沒有終點 也找不到答案"},{"start":10895.093,"end":10898.998,"text":"這個路側干擾我們去看我們看這個路側干擾在這裡我們看這個道路在這裡路側干擾在這裡我們看兩邊的環境到底是什麼通常會發生這樣子有很大的問題民眾的矛盾的地方他的路側建築物通常"},{"start":10911.474,"end":10937.074,"text":"要把就是很常見的透天錯 車不知道停哪裡再來就是很典型的 台灣典型的布燈公寓那種沒有內部停車位也沒有電梯的那種布燈公寓在這樣子的區域之下它可能受限於早期的都市計畫的限制或者說早期的建築技術規範它沒有很好的去把停車位留設所以在這邊造成很多民眾的矛盾"},{"start":10938.393,"end":10954.95,"text":"那尤其在這個地方如果有經營商業 商業的停車空間他也沒有內部化到最後在這樣的環境裡面 大家都找不到答案那這個答案是不是永遠要在執法這邊打轉 在這邊轉你也轉不出答案因為最後民眾的需求 各行各業的需求得不到一個滿足最近我們參加了國土署辦的人本交通"},{"start":10961.792,"end":10987.53,"text":"人本規劃師和活動我們編寫那個教材我們才把這些東西全部一起寫進去重點是我們必須要改善我們的道路環境都市設計這樣才有辦法同時給道路上所有的用路人不管是職業駕駛或者說身體方便不方便的人還有一般的用路人同時把構造對於各式各樣的用路人提供充分安全的服務"},{"start":10988.922,"end":11006.331,"text":"那去年前年很有幸跟臺北市趙宇翔議員合作我們去修改了這個四大路的設計在那個時候一開始針對這些路側停車干擾的問題第一開始提出來的策略也是在那邊調調紅線、調黃線還有這個調這個10公尺的這個以前都調過也是一樣鐘擺擺過來擺過去這邊擺回來下一次就會擺回去再調它還是一樣"},{"start":11018.254,"end":11039.876,"text":"這要怎麼處理 這個東西要畫原始圖書處理 路口的原始要curb extension來處理如果不能停車的地方 會影響市區的地方 那就是物理上做到完全沒有辦法停停了絕對就是干擾車流 車廂無法通行停都沒有辦法停 就不用考慮它到底是紅線還是黃線 因為物理上它就是不可以停不可以停的地方就是物理性的不可以停"},{"start":11040.296,"end":11051.122,"text":"不是說畫了一條紅線結果它好像一個空間可以停那就還是會有人停停了之後警察又陷入了到底是要趕還是不要趕趕了之後是不是又會被民代叫出來罵然後兩邊在那邊矛盾"},{"start":11054.639,"end":11083.718,"text":"如果是依照這種原始圖書在配停車彎的方法科學上、技術上、工程技術上絕對有辦法算到以客觀標準算到安全、適具確保的原始圖書的尺寸同時加以入廁的停車空間最大化我有講錯老師在這裡隨時可以吐槽這個是可以算得出來可以用客觀標準算得出來不會讓任何人吃虧但是也會在安全可及的極限之下把空間利用做到最大化我的第一次發言就到這裡為止謝謝大家"},{"start":11084.318,"end":11095.522,"text":"好 謝謝現在請廖先祥委員發言下一位黃鹿漁民行人路權促進會陳法軍代表請準備好 謝謝主席 各位好朋友如果在我們的交通環境中"},{"start":11109.414,"end":11114.878,"text":"沒有辦法對違規的行為來給他一些苛責的話那相對的會受到傷害的就是那些守法的我們的一般的用路人"},{"start":11125.729,"end":11148.833,"text":"那這一次的修法其實身為民意代表我們在長期間來我們民意代表一定都收到許多不同的意見包括很多人會說為什麼我晚上晚上回個家停在巷弄裡面那停個車而已那結果就被檢舉達人檢舉了好一段時間然後一次就收到很多張的罰單收到六七張一次十多張的罰單這樣子的情況很常見我們也常常收到這樣子的一個陳情"},{"start":11154.634,"end":11177.415,"text":"所以說在這次交通部的修法的意見裡面他說我們有說最主要的原因是因為有一個很大的原因是因為有特定的檢舉達人他針對特定的車輛或是他對於維護交通規制序他有很大的一個報復那每一個人他有很大的一個檢舉量"},{"start":11178.746,"end":11206.522,"text":"那在我們在交通部已經遭到這樣的情況下為什麼我們不是針對這樣的情況去改善而是持續的去針對我們違規開放民眾檢舉的項目不斷的去限縮其實在去年的時候我們交通違規檢舉限縮過後一般的紅黃線的林庭已經不能檢舉了許多的樣態已經沒有辦法檢舉了這一次被特別拿出來的是人行道"},{"start":11207.462,"end":11225.54,"text":"是入口10公尺相對起來比較危險的一些違規的一些樣態那我們要再把這些拿掉交通部說警察單位可以馬上的來協助做取締我那一天到內政委員會請教一下我們部長請教內政部部長"},{"start":11229.404,"end":11249.253,"text":"問他說部長你期待說民眾如果說在人行道上面檢舉維庭你期待警方多久以內會到我問了四五次部長沒有辦法回答這個問題他不敢講連期待都不敢講我不是要求他幾分鐘以內要到而是問部長你期待同仁多久時間內可以來處理"},{"start":11250.754,"end":11251.054,"text":"修法公聽會："},{"start":11264.212,"end":11281.497,"text":"在警方方便沒有辦法處理的時候那民眾沒辦法檢舉的時候這樣子的一個樣態只會越來越大那我認為交通部在這一次做檢舉做檢討的時候不是沒有辦法我們不是不接受做一些改變而是"},{"start":11283.444,"end":11302.86,"text":"我們交通部有沒有提出相當多一些客觀的一些數據給我們所有的民間團體知道剛剛有民間團體說昨天才收到資料說在去年的時候就是因為扣點被調到的人數是5萬人那110年是6萬5111年是6萬9那到了112年就剛剛我講的5萬其實是持續的在下降的因為"},{"start":11311.627,"end":11331.357,"text":"違規祭典這件事情而被調召的民眾其實數量是下降的那我們來看一下被祭典的點數我不知道有沒有民間團體拿到這樣的資料在112年6月到修法前被檢舉祭典的最大項目大家知道是什麼嗎"},{"start":11334.332,"end":11350.419,"text":"不是臨時停車不是一般紅黃線停車最大向的是一般道路的草屬就是說在這麼多大家被報怨被祭典的情況下最多的居然是不是我們今天被討論到的項目"},{"start":11352.12,"end":11381.298,"text":"我們在檢討駕駛人的這個職業駕駛的權益的時候我們居然是沒有檢討到最大項的一般道路超速去年總共被記了120萬點最大項沒被檢討到而我們反而去檢討到了我們認為比較違規的這個輪行道跟入口10公尺那我們有沒有曾經這個討論過我們的中華民國在道路上面的限速是不是有提供一個合理的限速我認為限速都非常不合理啦"},{"start":11381.778,"end":11409.654,"text":"那 這個我個人對這次的 因為時間不多我對這次的立法 修法的我的立場我可以在這邊很表明祭典這件事情 確實被民眾檢舉 被祭典確實會很不爽 確實會很不高興為了我們民眾有這個權利來決定這個兩百萬會被祭典我同意在只有警方可以 可以去做執行祭典這件行為這就是公權力 必須要是公家機關才能夠做的"},{"start":11410.194,"end":11434.627,"text":"那一般的違規的檢舉我真的呼籲違規的樣態的型態真的不要再限縮因為去年已經限縮過很大的一次了那我們交通的安全不能再退縮以上是我個人的意見謝謝現在請環路移民行人入權促進會的代表陳法軍代表發言下一位請台灣安全駕駛監督聯盟林美羅理事長準備"},{"start":11439.723,"end":11456.132,"text":"委員 各位與會先進 大家好那 協會在這邊有一個想法叫做國家有一個義務叫保護義務它附有一個保護人民免受第三人跟自然力侵害的義務但是在國家無法保護人民的時候人民應該要有一個自力救濟的手段 檢舉只是其中一種方法"},{"start":11456.972,"end":11484.827,"text":"如果國家不當限縮檢舉的話你可能會有一個叫不足的禁止的問題那OK以下幾點報告第一個一刀切的問題的話我們認為是無法達到這個保護就是駕駛人的還有保護用路人的目的那我們從整個問題來講停車問題跟其他項目這兩種被限縮的問題情況裡面它跟整體交通秩序的維護還有確保個別用路人的安全是有關的可是你是直接切一個1200這個完全不符合比例原則"},{"start":11486.041,"end":11511.675,"text":"那應該要針對個別條文去討論 有意義的拿出來講 沒有意義的 跟交通安全有關的 不要直接切掉好 再來 修法要依據客觀事實 然後我們認為 修法這件事情 有更多客觀數據我相信交通部那邊有很多的數據 很多的資料可以佐證 因為畢竟現在 我們政府很要求數據這件事情那可是如果你不拿這些數據拿出來使用的話 它就是數字 它沒有用"},{"start":11512.717,"end":11532.042,"text":"所以麻煩請交通部、警政署或是其他相關部門你在制定這些檢體項目的要件以及它的執法判準、績效等這些過程說明並且制定清楚好 再來 罰環跟祭典目的並不相同並沒有一事不二法這件事情第一個 我們的法院實務見解認為那個罰環是針對你違反行政義務的處罰"},{"start":11537.87,"end":11553.528,"text":"那這一點是針對你的危險性的評估這兩個本來就是不一樣的事情目的就不一樣然後再加上行政法法本來就規定可以同時處罰那在這邊我認為我們協會認為這個東西你應該是要並行的你可以討論但你不能把它撤掉"},{"start":11555.336,"end":11578.325,"text":"好 再來檢舉制度 檢舉制度是就如同前言講的國家保護義務不周不救手段那它不是對駕駛者的工作權或者是他的移動自由的限制那憲法第15條有講人民的生存權工作權財產權應與保障第23條有講說在避免妨礙他人自由避免緊急違法案防止妨礙他人自由維持社會秩序或政經功利所必要者外不得已法律限制所以"},{"start":11579.085,"end":11590.472,"text":"在4-584號就講到說人民的工作權是受到保障的職業自由也是受到保障但是你們的這些在符合第23條的規定的話可以用法律或法律授權的規定去限制"},{"start":11591.485,"end":11615.175,"text":"那駕駛執照的話本來就是一個國家發給你一個東西叫做我遵循你駕駛你有合格資格你有足夠能力去駕駛車輛的在4.16就講說我們這些東西這些駕車的自由包含職業駕駛們包含一般人你們這些駕車自由本來就應該要被受到限制而且你要遵守的駕駛公義在職業駕駛上面可能有更高的"},{"start":11616.993,"end":11637.506,"text":"我們認為國家對這些工作權給予適當限制不是不行可是你在限制的時候你應該是要兼顧只要回到前面的國家保護義務你沒有道路設計你沒有那些所謂的祭典處罰的明確要件的時候你就這樣子限制下去的話其實並不是一個好的方式"},{"start":11641.517,"end":11670.737,"text":"對比言之我們檢舉的這個國家保護義務不得手段就是它是在補足執法能量的不足我們剛剛前面有講到警政署這麼多我剛剛才收到反應這麼多這麼多警政署警察基層警察他根本沒有辦法過來開單他在線上警網巡邏的時間就已經佔掉他大部分的時間了你要叫他在10分鐘之內過來開單好像有困難而且甚至實際上也確實是如此真的非常困難一個小時兩個小時都看不見人就繼續放在那邊導致危害繼續擴大"},{"start":11672.66,"end":11679.755,"text":"那你透過檢舉你事後去追溯去給他一個處罰去讓他有警惕的效果的話這個 並不是不允許的"},{"start":11681.173,"end":11707.224,"text":"最後一個 就算真的檢舉制度有問題需要調整那你也不是去排擠弱勢用路人的用路權利你有一個檢舉的手段可以去保護自我比如像身障者 比如像老年人 比如像幼童這些人他們的生命身體健康的完整性跟職業駕駛的工作權或是一般駕駛的用路權益的話我想在這邊各位委員以及各位長官你們都有一定的想法"},{"start":11708.104,"end":11723.414,"text":"最後結論國家服務保護義務的話你應該要制定完善的配套措施跟教育宣導這個一直都是國家保護義務要做的你要避免第三人跟自然力的侵害你不是將這些駕駛的注意義務粗暴的轉嫁給弱勢用人去承擔"},{"start":11724.445,"end":11745.383,"text":"好 我們建議 協會建議可以根據道交七支一條開放檢舉的項目會同交通部會同警政署還有或者是其他的相關部會去制定行政規則的方式寫明各個違規構成的要件在何種情況之下會裁罰讓職業駕駛 讓一般駕駛都可以知道說什麼情況會被裁罰什麼樣的情況是不允許的好 謝謝 我報告到此結束"},{"start":11746.204,"end":11758.011,"text":"好 謝謝現在請臺灣安全駕駛監督聯盟林美羅理事長發言下一位請消費者文教基金會交通委員會召集人李克聰博士準備謝謝主席"},{"start":11772.767,"end":11794.796,"text":"各位與會的先進大家好我是臺灣安全駕駛監督聯盟理事長林美濃首先我要講一個故事其實這從這將近兩個禮拜的時間我的心裡面一直是在哭泣的大家所熟知的鄭華娟知名的歌手跟作家死了"},{"start":11798.004,"end":11817.665,"text":"那麼我跟他的認識直接的接觸是去年開始因為鄭華娟的妹妹在2022年的10月她騎著U-Bike被榮總的一部交通車左轉違規撞死了"},{"start":11819.195,"end":11846.646,"text":"鄭華娟為她妹妹這個不幸一直一直無法忘懷雖然她旅居德國那當我在去年跟她聯繫上之後我們做了很多的關懷可是我實在是沒有辦法安慰她於萬一那麼去年的下半年一審判決出來之後我才比較清楚她的訴求"},{"start":11847.694,"end":11873.741,"text":"因為這個職業駕駛的公司是沒有辦法究責的那第二個是他的妹妹未婚未生沒有直系血親再世所以損害賠償也沒有辦法訴求鄭華娟覺得她妹妹遭遇這樣的不幸宛如甚至不如一隻螻蟻"},{"start":11875.718,"end":11895.512,"text":"這是讓我非常傷心的那麼我常常警惕我也不斷的說一個人的死亡是悲劇一百個人的死亡一千個人的死亡是數字這是在第二次世界大戰留下來的一句名言天災地變人禍我們請問現在我國"},{"start":11902.981,"end":11923.405,"text":"已經連續兩年交通死亡超過三千人這是天災地變還是人禍我們剛剛對早上發生的地震都非常非常有感那為什麼對這樣的交通死亡是無感呢我在這裡還是要強調人命是一個一個搶救回來的"},{"start":11929.454,"end":11955.431,"text":"我們的政府要下降這個3000人交通死亡的這個人數是要一條人命一條人命搶救回來的那麼現在竟然想要對去年以來去年年中以來的這些這個緊要措施與鬆綁我真的覺得對這樣的事情非常的悲觀我想問"},{"start":11958.513,"end":11978.018,"text":"520之後如果我們今年交通死亡人數沒辦法比去年比前年降低5%我們今年的交通死亡受傷人數沒辦法比去年前年降低10%這樣的政治責任誰要扛民怨何在3000人"},{"start":11985.976,"end":12013.612,"text":"去年三千人 前年三千人 死亡的人就沒有民怨嗎死亡的三千人 何止三千個家庭 六千個家庭 九千個家庭結果這些死亡的人沒有選票嗎那留下來的家屬 萬天萬地 萬國家萬社會啦他怨不到那個傷害他的人肇事者啦 因為那樣的人離他太遠了"},{"start":12015.066,"end":12017.388,"text":"所以我在這裡還是要強調違規祭典我們絕對不能退讓中部這個駕訓駕照及駕駛管理檢討報告花費將近600萬元的研究費請你提出這個整個駕照考照管理的2.0改善計畫給我們給全民"},{"start":12043.104,"end":12047.045,"text":"再來談違規祭典要調整的問題這是我的一個強調我們從去年只要遇到交通部就不斷的提不斷的提到現在回應都是無關痛癢的我國的這個駕照的考照跟管理才是源頭在沒有處理之下"},{"start":12069.816,"end":12073.126,"text":"違規就是違規違規沒有不祭典的餘地以上"},{"start":12079.587,"end":12100.876,"text":"謝謝現在請消費者文教基金會交通委員會的召集人李克聰博士發言下一位請臺灣障礙者權益促進會劉宇記副秘書長準備劉副秘書長等一下就在座位發言就可以攝影機我們相關的攝影機也會對著你以上謝謝"},{"start":12106.417,"end":12106.998,"text":"好沒問題"},{"start":12119.969,"end":12148.137,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位先請大家今天已經快要到中午了大家午安我想時間很有限大家可以參考我的書面資料跟我現在放的這個簡報資料我們看下一頁我想大家都了解我們這次修法就是希望能夠平衡我們的交通安全跟我們的民怨但是我們必須要理解汽車使用這麼普遍但是我們的交通工程沒有辦法滿足我們的需求所以我相信每一個人都有違規的經驗所以交通違規成為日常"},{"start":12148.817,"end":12173.929,"text":"他非常嚴重影響我們的交通秩序跟安全那如果我們的違規如果執法的警力又不足他會造成一個惡性循環違規多事故也會變多所以我們應該要加強執法當初警力不足我們才開放民眾檢舉甚至我們採用科技的執法那但是我們開放民眾檢舉呢產生了一些對立惡性循環的現象所以民怨就增多了"},{"start":12174.309,"end":12175.05,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":12197.382,"end":12209.114,"text":"一刀切的缺點就是有的違規會影響到安全 有的不太會我們怎麼樣一刀切來定義它的違規是否影響我們的交通安全 非常困難"},{"start":12211.916,"end":12235.35,"text":"有專家曾經開過一次討論會他建議用違規的頻率、事故的嚴重度跟可控性來定義他的違罪其實我們不要講違罪,應該就是輕微的違規輕微違規我們都希望他是先勸導再取締這個用意是很好的但是我們現在一刀切的情況下有些違規停車他會嚴重影響交通安全"},{"start":12236.03,"end":12261.342,"text":"有些還好如果在社區裡面違規停車可是我們民眾檢舉很多都在社區裡面不太影響交通影響的情況下他取締他的違規停車他的用意可能就被扭曲了但是我們現在希望很快的改交通環境但是交通環境的改善需要時間但是在還沒有改善之前如果按照這樣子的修法的話交通安全堪慮這是我們大家都"},{"start":12262.302,"end":12280.404,"text":"都了解的部分所以我也建議在沒有釐清問題之前我們政府應該在平息之後再來做研議我們下一頁我們來看一下今天的討論大綱檢舉交通違規項目問題分析的影響我們一刀切剛剛我特別講有另外一個更好的選擇第一個"},{"start":12281.666,"end":12287.81,"text":"經濟民眾檢舉採證更完整有利判定是否影響交通安全"},{"start":12312.046,"end":12338.041,"text":"點數的部分 項目跟執行方式的檢討我們建議 如果是事故危險高的違規項目還應該要記違規的點數然後呢 我們定期 它有一個好處我們可以定期去提醒違規的人他的點數已經進展到什麼階段了 他應該去做調適然後呢 我剛剛特別講SOP嘛但SOP的話呢 我們只要把規範定得清楚檢舉的規則跟我們判定的原則 原理開端的原則"},{"start":12339.315,"end":12367.215,"text":"我們稍微想想看如果按照現在的修法當場舉法才能祭奠我們有幾項非常重要的違規是非常重要影響到我們交通安全的嚴重超速闖紅燈跟逼車這些都很難當場去做取締他們都必須要透過我們的檢舉甚至我們的科技執法來進行相關的取締如果這樣子的話將來這些違規我相信一定是會越來越多影響交通安全也會越來越嚴重好 我們看下一頁"},{"start":12368.255,"end":12392.323,"text":"公程的部分我們希望盡快地用需求跟問題導向來做改善如果會影響交通安全的點我們就用紅線如果不影響我們就是黃線但是它只能臨停三分鐘我們希望它是常態的執法避免大家常態性的去做違規那機車的路線我們都相信嘛機車現在是工區它有點失調我們必須要盡早去改善機車的行駛的問題我們看下一頁"},{"start":12393.623,"end":12420.174,"text":"教育監理我特別講宣導教育很重要我們現在工程改善前我們要去宣導它的危險在哪裡在我們的修法前後對交通違規的風險是什麼你違規可能會被開單我們也要去做這個很好的宣導教育監理的部分剛剛特別講有冒名頂替或者是黃牛我們可以去讓車主必須要登記常態的駕駛人如果還不夠我們再透過這個問題再來做改善我們看下一頁"},{"start":12420.874,"end":12444.546,"text":"好 最後的執法的部分我們還是希望能夠回到地方政府的常態性的執法我們有交通助理人員但是交通助理人員的建設跟執行我們必須要規範得非常清楚讓他可以協助我們的執法然後我們希望能夠先宣導提醒再做取締人性化的執法方式我們基本上就會形成一個良性循環有效的改善我們的交通安全問題跟民怨好 以上的報告"},{"start":12447.157,"end":12462.846,"text":"謝謝李克聰博士接下來我們請臺灣障礙者權益促進會劉雨季副秘書長發言下一位請下一代學生行人入權聯盟的總召王敬謙總召發言請做準備"},{"start":12465.122,"end":12491.161,"text":"大家好臺灣障礙者權益促進會我們一直是關心身心障礙者的所有相關的權益這邊也謝謝今天大家其實都常常提到身心障礙我這樣聽下來我覺得我們的這個角色有點尷尬因為我們的確是用路人的一個重要關係人但是有的時候又不小心變成一個"},{"start":12491.881,"end":12519.908,"text":"間接導致交通違規的一個人所以我這邊其實希望就是說各個委員或各位職業價值夥伴其實我們沒有要去做一些什麼對立但是我們的確身心障礙在許多的狀況下的確是用路的弱勢中的弱勢因為為什麼我們的人行環境人行空間的"},{"start":12520.888,"end":12521.188,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12538.044,"end":12557.131,"text":"的一個通行的時候有的時候就是會面臨到說有一些人他就是臨時臨停他想要買一個早餐買一個什麼東西或者是一些貨運業者或者是美食外送"},{"start":12557.691,"end":12572.703,"text":"他就給你停在我唯一的那個道路上就可能大家停在斜坡上等等的那就導致了我可能輪椅使用者就被卡在那邊可能也不知道10分鐘甚至半小時"},{"start":12573.644,"end":12596.901,"text":"那如果這樣的一個違規沒辦法檢舉的話我覺得其實對我們身心障礙者或者是我覺得也不要講身心障礙者就是對於行動不便者就是也有可能是中途受傷的人或是推娃娃車的各項的行人其實都會是非常的生活非常的不方便"},{"start":12597.802,"end":12612.675,"text":"所以我覺得這邊應該要去在修法的時候要好好去規劃說到底有哪一些真的是民眾舉發那我們舉發也不是為了要報復什麼但是我們的確就是"},{"start":12613.956,"end":12633.652,"text":"被擋住了那我們就用這個舉發那到底記不記點這個大家可以去做一些討論但是我們真的是希望說要讓JAS知道說這個地方是要保留好一個無障礙空間不應該你在這邊臨庭所以其實在這個狀態下"},{"start":12635.493,"end":12662.119,"text":"我們就必須要有一個民眾檢舉的一個機制這已經是我們最後的手段了那至於要不要記一點就真的再說然後再來我們也常常面臨到就是說例如說那個我們現在可能在臺北市的狀況在北部的狀況比較好現在有地地板公車"},{"start":12662.879,"end":12673.349,"text":"然後政府也鼓勵說身心障礙者要多多的出來所以會有什麼悠遊卡的點數等等的我們現在也發現到說其實因為很多的違規臨停的狀況導致公車很難靠近來公車停靠站"},{"start":12685.539,"end":12710.712,"text":"這個公車停靠站不是那種在道路上的那種公車專用道而是那種在行人道上的那這種在行人道上的他導致的就又會變成駕駛公車司機他為了要趕時間然後他又要協助障礙者上車那也導致了雙方又有一些對立所以因此這一堆的問題"},{"start":12711.872,"end":12733.32,"text":"希望說可以有一些逐步討論的空間真的不要去一刀切又特別是像那個身心障礙的停車位真的身心障礙停車位我們找就已經非常的難找又或者是說有一些人的家屬又會拿來冒用所以在這個狀況下"},{"start":12734.821,"end":12761.133,"text":"我真的覺得如果在修法上真的要必須交通部可能也要擔起一個責任是要通盤的去做一些一些整理就是說有哪一些道路他真的是這個斜坡真的要把它把它怎麼控管好這些通行道路要控管好那臨停的特別像說有那個無障礙計程車要臨停是否我這邊臨時想到說"},{"start":12762.814,"end":12774.523,"text":"有沒有可能比照一個交通追說這個是有輪椅要上下車所以大家給予一個空間去聆聽這樣子 以上好 謝謝謝謝劉宇謙副秘書長我們現在"},{"start":12779.359,"end":12798.234,"text":"劉宇記副秘書長 抱歉現在請下一代學生行人入權聯盟總召王敬謙同學特別從高雄趕過來高鐵也延誤在半路上 謝謝下一位發言的委員是游浩委員 請準備"},{"start":12802.357,"end":12829.415,"text":"各位長官、各位委員還有就是各位來參與的民眾代表們大家好那我是下一代學生行人路權聯盟的敬謙那我們這個組織呢本身是由一群高中生所組成的一個關心行人路權的組織那在去年的7月的時候我們有在高雄舉辦一場行人路權的遊行那其實今天來這邊的時候其實我是有點百感交集的"},{"start":12829.912,"end":12859.031,"text":"那第一個是因為我在來這邊的路上高鐵嚴重誤點所以就給我很多時間可以再多思考說今天要分享什麼內容那第二個是說因為其實我們去年在舉辦一個行人路權大型的時候我們原本的初衷是想說要讓臺灣的交通對我們這些交通弱勢族群不管是學生、老人、身心障礙者要更加友善才去舉辦這場遊行的那結果到了今年我看到的狀況完全就是倒行逆施"},{"start":12861.272,"end":12873.62,"text":"其實我們當初要辦遊行的時候就是希望反映過交通弱勢的在我們交通上面的一些困境但問題是我們今天這個修法會讓我們守法的人變相的被處罰那我想第一個先講的是違罪的部分"},{"start":12878.939,"end":12897.736,"text":"因為交通部一直在說違罪記點違罪不記點那問題是在我看來他所謂的違罪根本就不是違罪他所謂的行為違規一點也不輕微我們看到說交通部列出來的10點要來說取消記點跟檢舉的項目我光是這10點裡面我就5點相當相當反對"},{"start":12899.202,"end":12917.959,"text":"雖然部長剛才說違規停車違規臨時停車這種靜態違規可能會造成因為很不方便造成民怨好那我今天就照他的我扣掉這一點來看還是有五點我完全不能夠接受第一點是未戴安全帽第二點是騎車開車的時候吸食香煙然後再來是"},{"start":12918.94,"end":12919.421,"text":"修法公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":12938.533,"end":12960.054,"text":"因為我不明白這樣到底會造成什麼民怨還是交通部長的標準就只是一千兩百塊以下不計點一刀切就這樣子草草了事的呢這點我保持了非常大的疑問所以就帶到了說因為一千兩百塊這個標準其實台灣的道路的處罰條例對於發還裁量的標準已經很久沒有修訂了那我們這個現行標準"},{"start":12962.216,"end":12987.544,"text":"我們先是沒有去討論說這個標準在現在是否合宜卻已經在想說要如何幫這些違規人解套這是令我最不解的東西還有交通部一直在說我們要從工程做起我們要劃設黃線我們要把那個讓臨時空間臨時停車的空間做出來然後才讓用路人不會被迫違規那我想我這點是相當贊同因為我自己也是一個駕駛人"},{"start":12988.484,"end":13012.688,"text":"我在台灣的道路上常常會遇到很多被迫違規的情形但是江部每次在講這件事情的時候都是一直在強調說啊我們什麼時候會劃完黃線我們什麼時候會做完路車設施結果呢結果我們什麼都沒有等到換來的只是大概每半年就會一次說啊我們有民怨所以我們要限縮檢舉我們要限縮祭典這種奇怪的替違規人解套的事情發生"},{"start":13013.581,"end":13022.915,"text":"那這又帶到一個問題就是說為什麼我們會產生那麼多違規人在我們的國家那我想最大的問題是我們監理制度一開始就沒有把它把關好"},{"start":13024.639,"end":13046.053,"text":"台灣的建立制度已經上落那麼多年每年都會增加新的10萬的考照取得駕照的人但是卻在考照難度上卻在40年間從來就沒有增加過這原因我非常不解我自己是剛滿18歲的人那因為我們在南部比較少大眾藝術可以搭乘所以我們就被迫要再使用私人運具來做移動"},{"start":13046.84,"end":13064.588,"text":"那在我移動的過程中我去考取駕照發現說他根本就只是走個形式而已我在考取機車駕照的時候我完全沒有練習過就可以考完考取機車駕照的時候我只要報駕訓班花錢他一定會給我過那這點為什麼我覺得我一點很疑惑就是為什麼不先處理監理的問題呢"},{"start":13065.808,"end":13094.319,"text":"因為今天的問題其實沒有什麼民怨可以談啊都是新考照的人為什麼不要先處理這個最基本把我們的源頭把關好而卻又說要開放祭典這個制度祭典這個制度是目前我們的監禁手段駕訓裡面唯一可以淘汰掉危險駕駛的手段那但是我們監禁卻又把這個腳打斷了那就變成是我們沒有任何方法可以淘汰掉現在在我國交通道路上的違規駕駛這點是讓我非常遺憾的所以我希望交通部能夠在這點持續檢討"},{"start":13095.259,"end":13114.718,"text":"然後最後一點就是我希望交通部可以適時的公開一些對於說祭典啊、扣照的一些資訊因為其實我們這些民間團體要在網上公開查都查不到以上謝謝謝謝王敬謙同學現在請油耗委員發言"},{"start":13123.493,"end":13148.689,"text":"謝謝 謝謝召會今天來這邊的許多的不管是委員還有包括我們許多的團體不管是駕駛工會或是相關行人用路權相關各個團體相信大家其實不僅是對在這個所謂國內在道路安全或是行人安全都是充滿許多正義感這個當然說大家都能夠充分感受得到"},{"start":13149.409,"end":13178.519,"text":"那我在這裡還是本席也提出因為我是從地方民代出身那其實在之前的話我記得在上次跟就是聯席會議的時候也有提到希望能夠降低還兒童包括行人用路的一個安全的改善因為從2018年到2022年其實在孩童至少有46206的孩童他們其實是因為在用路上交通安全上造成傷亡所以平均是每天是25人還受傷或死亡"},{"start":13179.139,"end":13203.615,"text":"那當然說在這樣子的一個交通的安全上在孩童不僅是存在許多的一些法規包括我們在車輛的行駛上要去注意之外那本協在這裡也希望說交通部你能夠持續加強還在學校的一個交通安全的一個宣導還能夠讓我們未來的孩童還能夠在這個在用路的時候能夠更加的安全"},{"start":13204.335,"end":13229.203,"text":"那接著就是本席也上次在聯席會議的時候也曾經提到就是在無障礙空間過去我在當蔡錦榮立委的助理的時候曾經也寫出蔡委員提一個提案他就在就是那時候看到伸張聯盟走上街頭那許多的包括不管是桃園機場或是松山機場他們要做這個相關的一個空橋那要讓伸張者他們能夠來去做一個"},{"start":13229.983,"end":13249.282,"text":"一個測試但是沒有測試所以他們不知道他們可不可以在這樣子來去使用所以那時候我寫的提案蔡總委員他提了那也在一個月之內還就進行測試跟改善那所以本席也希望在今天的這場公聽會也讓交通部做個記錄那在未來的無障礙空間"},{"start":13250.143,"end":13250.363,"text":"修法公聽會：完整"},{"start":13268.746,"end":13295.868,"text":"我想在這裡也提出剛才有提到先勸導再開單這件事情那本席因為也是基層民在出身那也希望未來交通部也能夠跟警政署盡量溝通在相關的法規上我還是會希望是能夠盡量以先勸導再開單因為其實在我們地方民代常常都會接收到許多的民眾有時候在過年半年貨的時候常常就會有一些檢舉嘛那當然違規停車就是不對但是最主要是希望把他們驅離"},{"start":13296.969,"end":13318.707,"text":"還有不要造成影響 也不要去受到這個到時候停在那裡 到時候引起衝突有時候員警因為檢舉 那就趕快去做開單還整排開下去 到時候就起衝突該驅離的車驅離不走反而造成更大的一個交通的影響所以在這個部分來講 許多的一個交通安全我相信降低這個"},{"start":13319.668,"end":13320.108,"text":"修法公聽會：完整"},{"start":13338.624,"end":13339.105,"text":"修法公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":13359.583,"end":13387.235,"text":"當我們在考量的這些駕駛人他們有時候因為一些道路的部分他們可能就是被記到點的時候但是我們其實同樣的如果我們在法規上面我們要演要記點的話我們就必須讓他申訴的一個裁量空間那有關的公務局或者是相關在警政署他們在考量這些在做申訴的時候就必須要給予更大的一個裁量空間因為通常都會維持原本的警政處分"},{"start":13388.195,"end":13388.715,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13408.763,"end":13411.424,"text":"謝謝我們第一輪的發言包含6位立委15位團體代表均與發言完畢那現在請工作人員"},{"start":13439.358,"end":13462.267,"text":"發便當我們在12點50分會先請交通部來做相關的說明那在這半個多小時的時間請交通部整理一下各發言代表的重要的發言要點並且提出說明"},{"start":13463.047,"end":13483.577,"text":"那我們在12點50分第二輪在交通部發言說明之後我們會進行第二輪的發言第二輪的發言時間是三分鐘發言完畢之後我們會再請交通部做說明那現在很抱歉因為會議的"},{"start":13486.179,"end":13493.468,"text":"時間只讓大家有半個小時吃飯的時間在這邊聲表歉意現在我們先休息"},{"start":13501.045,"end":13502.265,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13529.324,"end":13542.747,"text":"修法公聽會：召開"},{"start":13553.231,"end":13554.273,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":15588.322,"end":15602.891,"text":"好 謝謝各位 我們繼續開會在進行第二輪發言之前我們先請交通部林福山次長先來做說明等一下再請陳彥博次長來做補充好 沒關係"},{"start":15609.352,"end":15625.523,"text":"主席還有今天與會的各位專家學者包括相關職業價值人團體還有相關入選團體的這一個代表那今天早上這個聆聽大家的一個這一個意見大概我主要我想"},{"start":15626.403,"end":15626.423,"text":"民眾檢舉"},{"start":15646.115,"end":15646.615,"text":"道路環境道路工程"},{"start":15672.343,"end":15695.199,"text":"去年開始,行政院相關的政策綱領包括相關基本法的制定後面會有行人交通安全設施條例的制定四年400億經費的投入從中央到地方政府大家對於工程這一塊目前都在積極辦理當中"},{"start":15697.981,"end":15716.133,"text":"所以針對這個相關這個就是說道路環境裡面的這一塊的一個這個優化改善這個部分都是在進行中的一個事項那第二個部分的話就是針對在今天大家討論比較攸關的道路路徹停車環境的這個部分"},{"start":15718.815,"end":15736.977,"text":"這個部分的話在這個去年也確實要求地方政府三個月內要完成這個優先路段的一個這個排點那希望在今年上半年把相關的一個這個紅黃線合理上下客戶的相關的這個環境要來做一個這一個完成那"},{"start":15738.438,"end":15761.09,"text":"後續相關這個比較細部的工程這個部分如果有需要再請這個黃市長做一個補充但是回過頭來討論到今天道路交通管理處罰條例這個法律修正案的一個部分有幾點我再再跟各位做一個這個報告這次這個韓宋立法院審查的這個道路交通管理處罰條例7條之一63條還有63條之二的部分這三個條文"},{"start":15766.305,"end":15766.485,"text":"修正修正"},{"start":15782.985,"end":15809.494,"text":"調整的一個部分的話陳吳我一開始在這個專案報告裡面大概有做一個說明那我這邊再補充說明一點就是說大家對於就是說都有提到一個字眼交通部這次送出來針對這個民眾檢舉限縮或是未來這個祭典檢討的部分是用所謂這個違罪不舉1200這樣子的一個滑板金額"},{"start":15810.014,"end":15810.374,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":15833.652,"end":15859.964,"text":"含送7條之一跟63條跟63條這個修正案是一個這個法律的這個修正案那送這個法律修正案的部分的話就必須要從這個道路交通道路交通管理處罰條例整體的一個這個規定來切入做一個這個考量那在這個道路交通管理處罰條例裡面我跟各位報告就是說處罰條例裡面的處罰有處罰環有講習有祭典有"},{"start":15863.166,"end":15863.226,"text":"有各種"},{"start":15878.243,"end":15878.423,"text":"主席"},{"start":15904.435,"end":15928.393,"text":"所有的違規都會影響到道路交通安全那在這個就是說不管是國內的處罰條例或是國外交通違規處罰裡面在所有違規的風險裡面基本上還是有相對風險的一個這個切分那這個相對風險的一個部分的話第一個這個相關評價的基準就是以這個划完所以在現行處罰條例裡面就會有300、500、300到600"},{"start":15932.456,"end":15933.036,"text":"一千兩百元"},{"start":15954.587,"end":15974.984,"text":"在95年行政法法實施的時候行政法法就有3000元以下這個不處罰為適當可免於這個處罰那在95年這個7月的時候同步也修正道路交通管理處罰條例都針對這個輕微違規確實違罪不舉這個是刑法上面一個借用的概念那回到處罰條例這個部分的話"},{"start":15977.026,"end":15993.25,"text":"是一用這個輕微違規可施予勸導這個名語舉發這樣子的一個這個條文文字的一個規定那在95年這個7月1號這個施行處罰條例修正條文的時候參照行政法法的規定把這個輕微違規可施予勸導這樣子的東西在92條第4項明文規定"},{"start":15998.331,"end":16019.637,"text":"修選在裁判細則裏面來規定這些相關的一個項目那這個1200元也就是當時就是這樣子的一個這個行政法的概念導入之後在現行這個裁判細則12條裏面這個可施予嵌倒免於菊花的項目的這個金額基礎大概就是這個1200元的一個這個部分所以"},{"start":16020.438,"end":16026.486,"text":"這次提出來就是說針對這個就是說以最高划算1200元以下這樣子的一個這個金額然後來這個檢討處罰條例我想大概是基於這個處罰條例這樣子的一個這個架構來做一個這個"},{"start":16036.42,"end":16037.101,"text":"修正條文處理"},{"start":16056.707,"end":16056.947,"text":"修正式"},{"start":16079.36,"end":16079.42,"text":"修法公聽會議"},{"start":16098.353,"end":16117.312,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":16117.412,"end":16117.732,"text":"修法公聽會．"},{"start":16137.974,"end":16158.61,"text":"6個月計6點,吊扣駕照1個月,在111年大概3萬,就是純粹因為計點而被這個吊扣駕照的部分大概是3萬2千多人那這個去年,包括上半年跟下半年修法這個修法之後,如果以相同點數來看的話,大概有12萬人次那"},{"start":16162.284,"end":16185.011,"text":"另外一個部分因為依照新的修正條例的一個規定如果說沒有規則這個真正駕駛人部分的話是改記汽車的這個紀錄三次就要調扣這個牌照這個兩個月那這個部分沒有辦規則這個處罰這個汽車駕駛人的這汽車所有人的部分大概有6萬多人"},{"start":16185.831,"end":16186.171,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":16210.606,"end":16217.371,"text":"提出最高罰款上限一千兩百元以下做這樣子一個系統性的檢討那這裡面大家對於西向的內容一定會有不同的考量跟見解的部分這個部分早上"},{"start":16236.624,"end":16236.904,"text":"修法公聽會議"},{"start":16257.29,"end":16274.576,"text":"考量那相關處罰條例的一個這個修正那各位如果說這個可以查閱一下這個立法院相關議案文書的部分大概每年都會做一個修正那所以有一些東西基本上大概是這個階段性那會有一些這個滾動的一個這個檢討"},{"start":16277.737,"end":16299.95,"text":"那以上大概我早上聆聽這個各團體專家學者的一個這個意見我大概比較中文性做幾點這個整合性意見的一個這個補充說明以上好林市長做初步的一個說明那陳彥博市長有要做補充說明嗎好"},{"start":16307.622,"end":16333.619,"text":"主席還有今天與會的各個團體還有專家學者我想首先我想今天大家會在這裡談這個問題應該是也是源於大家對交通安全的一個關心那我們從112年從111年到112年到現在我們可以看到交通事故死亡的人數仍然是高居3000人左右不下那雖然"},{"start":16334.219,"end":16356.253,"text":"在去年在大家的努力下有稍微的一個降低但是整體跟大家預期的降5%的這樣的一個死亡人數來看還是有一段很大的一個差距所以這也就是為什麼今天我們在討論這樣一個處罰條例修正的時候引起大家這麼廣泛的一個關切所以"},{"start":16357.294,"end":16376.693,"text":"在這個大家經常特別提到的臨死亡願景還沒到來之前我想交通部跟各機關中央各機關我們在這個議題上我們大概還是要持續的一個努力來檢討相關的作為首先第一個我想這樣的一個說明"},{"start":16377.654,"end":16404.748,"text":"那第二個呢是剛才有關這個修法從剛才林司長的不管是一開始的說明和剛才的說明裡頭大概都有特別提到這個其實是在這個因為產生去年的修法的狀況以後產生了不管是檢舉的一個太陽也好或檢舉的行為也好或者是到後面的祭典所產生的整體的衝擊特別提到說這次修法呢其實是屬於"},{"start":16406.048,"end":16423.577,"text":"在大家都認知到說人行的環境跟停車的問題還是依然存在之前一個權宜的措施所以他剛才特別提到說交通部為什麼要這樣修又為什麼要那樣修的一個說明但是在今天的大家的一個"},{"start":16424.457,"end":16448.285,"text":"一個說明裡頭我覺得我個人我覺得後續或許我們交通部可以在這裡想想看怎麼樣在因為今天聽了大家很多的意見大概不外乎檢舉的裡頭大概檢舉的那些違規的太陽或檢舉的方式那祭典的話很多又特別提到超速像超速這樣的一個違規行為"},{"start":16449.805,"end":16466.395,"text":"如果在祭典上予以不處理的話可能會對整體的交通安全有影響等等的這些問題我想我們會聆聽大家的想法之後呢剛才不管是部長也好或者林市長剛才的說明也好都會在後續有關這個"},{"start":16468.116,"end":16469.638,"text":"現在請警政署交通組黃毅山副組長來做說明"},{"start":16503.614,"end":16528.416,"text":"主席今天與各位先進以及我們專家學者大家午安我想今天非常高興能夠我們警政署我是代表警政署交通署來出席這個會議那從今天早上也都聽到各位寶貴的意見我想大家針對這個到底這一次我們的警察的這個警力"},{"start":16529.778,"end":16552.496,"text":"能不能因應這次的這個道路交通管理處罰條例的修法能不能有沒有辦法去負荷或者是大家都很關心說這個打110以後雖然說是這個限縮的部分的這一個民眾可以檢舉的項目但是如果民眾打電話向警察110報案以後警察有沒有辦法這個警力到達現場去做處理"},{"start":16553.897,"end":16576.694,"text":"我想我針對這個部分來做說明那警力不足的問題至始至終其實都一直存在都一直存在所以這個當時這個道路交通管理處罰條例裡面去設置的這個民眾可以檢舉的這樣子的一個美意其實就是為了希望能夠改善警力不足的問題那的確也是這個樣子"},{"start":16578.035,"end":16599.305,"text":"但是這個陳儒跟今天很多議會的先進都有觀察到這個制度設計以後慢慢慢慢好像大家都有發現有一部分的這一個比如說檢舉的這案件的這個數量是持續的好像是有少數的人都一直在檢舉所以這個東西就是所謂的我們的所稱的這個所謂的檢舉的這個達人"},{"start":16601.306,"end":16611.484,"text":"那這樣子的這個制度的設計之下呢就好像有點類似比較被曲解跟這個被誤用我們本來是希望能夠"},{"start":16612.81,"end":16614.331,"text":"修法公聽會：完整會議修法公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":16642.142,"end":16652.711,"text":"那所以說呢這個其實呢這個警力不足呢其實如果是民眾開放檢舉的部分我們假設是能夠為公益好的話呢其實警力的使用是沒有問題的"},{"start":16654.414,"end":16680.088,"text":"那現在回歸到一個問題就是說假設我們現在目前這個修法以後把這個限縮民眾可以檢舉的話那直接打110報案警察當然是一定要到現場去做處理但是事實上各位都知道警力是有限的警力我們的警察不是只有處理交通違規的案件他包括治安案件很多案件他都必須要處理所以他必須要有重要性跟緊急性"},{"start":16680.828,"end":16695.464,"text":"所以不可否認的是如果說這個檢舉的案件就是說民眾反映的違規交通違規案件如果在同一個短時間之內很多的話可能警力到達現場的警力可能會稍微有一點"},{"start":16696.585,"end":16713.678,"text":"會稍微有一點點比較不如不如人意這是我必須要承認的包括每一個地方的交通的環境不一樣可能有擁載的條件可能也不一樣所以呢那這個部分呢可能大家就會去去所謂的去比較擔心的這一點所以我們可以用什麼"},{"start":16714.298,"end":16738.848,"text":"可以用科技執法的部分來做補助這一塊也就是說警察當警力有限的時候呢我們所care的部分不是你單一個個別的在社區裡面單一個檢舉的案件我們可能是針對於比較熱點性的違規案件比如說違規停車可能在交通繁忙的地方火車站或者是一些客運的轉接站這個地方"},{"start":16741.594,"end":16769.407,"text":"經常這個地方依違規影響到順暢很嚴重我們在這個地方設科技執法讓這個民眾就知道在這個地方絕對不能停就算你零停的部分可能我們就會警告你讓你趕快離開或者某一些路段他今天如果是超速的話那他很容易就發生車禍危及到民眾的這個生命安全所以我們在這個地方做區間測速用科技執法的部分彌補警力的不足"},{"start":16770.08,"end":16796.101,"text":"所以我想在這個地方就是我要重新的這個再強調一點就是說其實我們是希望用有限的警力來發揮到最大的效能那希望能夠把這個交通在安全跟順暢的這兩個前提之下發揮到最大的效能那這個部分是我針對早上很多的專家學者包括我們的委員他特別提到這個警力的部分是不是有辦法去負擔"},{"start":16797.282,"end":16824.575,"text":"這一次的這個修法的部分還有民眾打110的部分是不是我們有辦法去做處理這一塊特別簡單做個說明謝謝各位好 謝謝其他列席官員有要做補充說明嗎沒有的話我們現在進行第二輪的學者專家以及團體代表的發言第一位我們先請廖先祥委員發言下一位請陳法軍代表做準備時間3分鐘"},{"start":16832.179,"end":16846.103,"text":"好 謝謝我還是想再次的強調現今的交通環境如果無法針對違規者進行懲罰那就是對守法的人在進行變相的懲罰那當然交通案進步交通的規則 檢舉制度的"},{"start":16848.724,"end":16864.2,"text":"設立那或許大家會認為說走得太快了那所以說交通部在去年的時候也做了一些調整我們也都認為確實循序漸進我們在把社會上的紛爭盡量不要影響到多數人的權益這是大家的一個目標"},{"start":16865.061,"end":16890.034,"text":"這就是一種妥協啦針對增益大的部分我們可以做一些調整這絕對是可以討論的但是我們的交通部也必須要提出更多事實的一些數據剛剛我們交通部長官有說了未來我們會提出更多有關祭典相關的數據讓我們的民間團體能夠充分的來討論祭典來某個時段某一些法規的情況下有多少人被祭典那造成什麼樣子的影響包括職業價值的升級的衝突"},{"start":16893.095,"end":16907.006,"text":"那我認為在去年限縮民眾檢舉之後那有兩個比較大的一個部分還是可能是可以討論的第一個當然就是我們職業駕駛的一個生計那既然這都確實造成職業駕駛他們的困難因為我們職業駕駛確實沒有違規的一些必要他們就是送貨而已他們沒有違規的一些企圖或是說"},{"start":16920.316,"end":16944.515,"text":"就是想要違規他們是必不得已是違規所以我才會在剛剛的發言說我認為祭典制度確實是可以做一些檢討跟限縮但是剛剛李博士也有講那針對重大的一些違規項目比如說危險駕駛這些可能就跟我們上下會沒有關係了單純是行使行為我是認為祭典的項目可以去做一些限縮不然現在如果說有一個檢舉達人今天看某一個駕駛不爽"},{"start":16946.877,"end":16947.117,"text":"剪舉達人剪舉上限"},{"start":16972.745,"end":16996.645,"text":"做一些妥協跟調整我想大家都是可以接受的但是我們現在交通部所提出的修法的方案確實有點太粗糙了直接把我們當初所做的一些進步跟努力好像一次就把它通通都放棄了回到了原點交通的進步一定是循序漸進那走得太快的時候我們可以做一些調整但是我希望能夠更細明一點就是我剛剛講的包括第一個"},{"start":16997.085,"end":16997.245,"text":"剪矩打人"},{"start":17020.543,"end":17040.999,"text":"現在因為都是實名制,我們應該去做一些項目的上限調整,那以後這幾點也是後續我在教育會會持續我們交通部長官持續討論的一些方向,謝謝好,謝謝現在請黃璐玉銘行人路權促進會的代表陳法軍代表發言,下一位李威和理事長請準備"},{"start":17045.171,"end":17050.315,"text":"抱抱抱歉陳凱琳理事長下一位陳凱琳理事長不好意思"},{"start":17053.993,"end":17076.815,"text":"那針對剛剛交通部的回應的話我們這邊提出一個問題就是關於免於處罰的話這個部分是法律的位階那如果今天你把這些東西拿掉比如像違規停車這些東西拿掉的話你涉及到弱勢用路人的生命身體安全的時候那這個部分是不是對於基本權有一個侵害的話請交通部可能回去需要處理一下這個部分可能會有跟憲法有關的問題"},{"start":17077.836,"end":17101.597,"text":"好 那再來協會這邊提出一個具體的提出一些具體的建議那在工程面的部分的話我們希望中央的話可以訂出相關的工程法規然後讓各級政府能夠準守比如像紅黃線的劃設指引道路構造這些通用的範本等可以跟內政部他們一起去做協調那還有另外像是這些比如像新社從發區這種紅黃線一路劃到底的這些問題的話也可能需要解決"},{"start":17103.978,"end":17124.123,"text":"計程車招募制度及上下貨的制度香港計程車招募制度即上即落即走人等車或是不可停車等或這些的輔助交通標誌可以去做參考設立以及避車彎的處理這些都是可以去參考的在監理教育的部分的話我們希望可以有車隊的APP介面可以去規範"},{"start":17125.043,"end":17125.724,"text":"道路交通安全基本法"},{"start":17144.915,"end":17164.17,"text":"最後是執法面的部分執法面部分的話我們希望如果有因為道路工程設計問題而導致的違規的話應該要有一些救濟的制度當然現在我們知道行政訴訟法裡面已經有相關的救濟制度了但是在這個部分的話除了可能有一些更便捷的那個申訴制度之外的話或許我們可以從裁量空間下面去做討論"},{"start":17165.595,"end":17191.013,"text":"然後再來就是如果說因為可能因為他人原因比如像我們剛剛講到上下課這些問題的話上下課那個在醫院啊或者是教學區上下課這些問題的話我們還有相關的法規在法規裡面都有去做規定那這些部分的話可以回歸到去做一些調整然後以及作為橫頻的措施那不是代表說但不代表說可以用這些理由去影響弱勢用戶人的生命身體安全謝謝"},{"start":17195.666,"end":17204.698,"text":"謝謝現在請陳凱琳理事長發言下一位請數位平台預約接送從業員工從業員工會理事長李威爾請準備"},{"start":17219.549,"end":17237.665,"text":"我是凱琳 我想要再針對剛才司長這邊有提到說去年已經有降低41人的這個高安環境的改善再去強調去年的這個目標期應該是有5%的死亡下降但是並沒有達標所以我們首先就不能夠認同這個高安環境有改善的前提的假設"},{"start":17238.986,"end":17257.084,"text":"針對這一次的修法,我們有提出一些訴求第一個是前面江部這邊有承諾會給出的科技數據不管是各組條項目對於交通安全的影響以及對於事故的風險還有不管是調控人數和調控樣態都應該要在排審前公告出來不管是公告給委員們,也應該要公告給民眾讓我們可以去參考"},{"start":17260.808,"end":17261.829,"text":"道路工程改善計畫"},{"start":17278.527,"end":17301.098,"text":"所以我們希望這一次 前面江部司長這邊有講說應該要在道路工程改善好以前去做這次檢舉跟祭典的調整 那改善好是什麼時候 有什麼規劃以及有什麼多少預算 多少的道路會去設計這個臨時停車格 避車彎 公車彎以及卸貨區 我們都沒有看到任何規劃 請江部這邊盡速的提出來"},{"start":17302.319,"end":17328.939,"text":"對於配套措施必須要妥善規劃例如說前面有提到的貨車如果要在路邊圍停卸貨的話是不是有三角軸或是車輛的警示讓他們在卸貨的時候不要讓後車有嘴撞或是讓行人跌倒或受傷的這些相關的配套規劃目前都還沒有看到請交通部這邊盡速提出以及對於法規的宣導是不是可以告知乘客合法的乘車位置在哪裡"},{"start":17330.2,"end":17330.22,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":17360.62,"end":17388.113,"text":"總檢舉量有70%也就是警察只有檢舉30%那剛才檢政署提的科技執法以及區間測數真的能夠去去處理70%的違規嗎我們認為是很困難的是不是可以透過交通助理員或是其他的執法方式去做改革那最後是對於民間的參與的部分我們認為說應該要去有更細緻的討論這一次的修法很明顯只有一次的座談會而且座談會的過程中完全沒有去提到這十項要開放的項目完全等於是沒有任何民間的參與我們希望可以有更細緻更廓"},{"start":17388.933,"end":17389.994,"text":"謝謝 現在請李威爾理事長來做報告那下一位我們請臺灣機車路權促進會羅宇理事準備"},{"start":17419.893,"end":17421.842,"text":"我開始之前先放一段影片給大家看一下"},{"start":17453.345,"end":17478.479,"text":"好 各位這是我實際的客人他是輪椅的客人他停在哪裡 他停在轉角他停在人行道請問我該怎麼辦拒絕他我上車只問了他一句話你怎麼沒有叫無障礙通用計程車他說我叫不到所以我只能叫計程車身上可以怎麼辦"},{"start":17481.374,"end":17497.829,"text":"我要回歸到我的檔案那邊就是我之前提的是一件我之前提的是說我們要實際來談這些事情我覺得交通部我跟各位講啊這五年沒有人抗議交通部比我抗議的多啦我抗議交通部的次數最多了"},{"start":17499.079,"end":17519.78,"text":"可是我在這幾年的抗議裡面我學會了一個經驗就是說對專務部來講其實你要這些你對他們只有一個很簡單的要求第一他不能違法第二他必須走程序這件事情現在的爭議點是在於說今天這個法它是母法是立法院去決定這件事情"},{"start":17520.819,"end":17548.054,"text":"而交通部他就是所謂的處理細則是針對祭典他的難處跟你我想要的東西最困難的是什麼最困難的是立法院到底現在態度是什麼如果你今天要把每一條逐條去審查請問要花多久的時間實際上面你我的生活我們能等待這麼久嗎我舉一個最簡單看這回理由感的水風也騎呀"},{"start":17549.81,"end":17572.393,"text":"我之前在高雄生活了十幾年我在高雄開車啊請問一下水雄駕車多一條南平路跟玉城路哪一條可以臨時上下車沒有啊這就是問題嘛那你我願不願意去面對你我現在生活上面的問題啊道路交通改善要做啊教育要做啊"},{"start":17574.025,"end":17590.618,"text":"包含很多委員今天的一些意見都非常的好啊可是我們可不可以先往前走一步我曾經問王國才一件事情啊除了行政體系可以提出修法 立法院也可以啊那我還是要呼籲交通委員會啊"},{"start":17592.17,"end":17609.8,"text":"先讓這件事情先過了讓你我的生活能夠稍微有一點的緩和真的覺得要往前走立法委員應該要擔起這樣子的責任你也可以提案啊為了人民的進步能夠更好啊然後再去做修正謝謝"},{"start":17613.257,"end":17620.069,"text":"謝謝 現在請羅儀理事發言下一位是臺灣障礙者權益促進會副秘書長 劉宇濟副秘書長請準備"},{"start":17632.486,"end":17654.768,"text":"好那剛剛有許多的委員跟團體代表也都有發言那也有提到自己面臨的問題那交通部剛剛也其實有做一些回應但我覺得非常遺憾的就是說認為說剛剛不管是市長還是次長剛剛回應到的都沒有提到我剛剛所提到的這個機車面現在未來可能會無路可走的這個困境也就是說"},{"start":17655.268,"end":17680.964,"text":"外側都是維艇 內側是經營機車這樣的困境實在是機車主 機車的用路人必須要盡快的來去改善的一個困境那也在這邊想要跟大家說明就是說很多人覺得說檢舉達人或是所謂的檢舉魔人他們可能都騎摩托車 頭上戴著這個行車紀錄器我們這邊曾經就有夥伴有遇到他其實就是戴著這個機車行車紀錄器在路上結果呢 他就被路人攻擊 叫囂 叫罵"},{"start":17682.425,"end":17702.572,"text":"但是呢這樣子的人可能他出車禍的時候又會上FB的社團去徵求有沒有行車記錄器可以來替他主持公道我們也必須要說我們不認為單靠民眾的檢舉制度就可以改善交通但是呢在現在剛剛我所提到的這些擁護人所面臨到的困境外側未來開放給大家來去做維庭"},{"start":17706.393,"end":17728.616,"text":"內側又是進行機車那過去我們還有民眾檢舉的這個管道可以來做一個自我的權力救濟可以用自己的力量來改善交通但是呢現在這個權力也被剝奪了那我們就想問配套措施在哪裡機車該何去何從難道要我們看到危停的時候停下來打電話給警察等一個多小時然後我們才可以騎走嗎"},{"start":17729.537,"end":17732.361,"text":"還是我們就是得被迫的違規我們覺得這樣的狀況其實跟剛剛很多職業駕駛的團體所面臨到的狀況是很像的"},{"start":17738.802,"end":17761.448,"text":"那我們這邊也必須要再次的去強調就是說這一次的修法如果真的通過了外側的環境一定會更加更加的混亂那交通部或者是立法院也應該要來做出開放機車行駛、內車車道還有就是取消強制樑上式左轉這樣子的這個做法來去做配套因為機車它到路口有圍停"},{"start":17762.008,"end":17762.168,"text":"修法公聽會"},{"start":17778.118,"end":17781.359,"text":"政策討論不一定要到立法院才可以來做政策討論政策討論在行政端在交通部提出草案的時候就可以做討論了不要再像"},{"start":17793.624,"end":17816.734,"text":"3月4號的那種座談會一樣這麼樣的參促禮拜五下午4點59分發開會通知禮拜一早上9點要開會這實在是非常非常的不合理那最後面補充剛剛警政署有提到科技執法的部分我相信其實在座的很多團體都反對區間測數大家都只看以表版不去看路那我們覺得科技執法的部分還是要用對地方才可以保障到大家的安全謝謝"},{"start":17821.193,"end":17828.708,"text":"謝謝 現在請劉雨季副秘書長發言下一位請台灣安全駕駛監督聯盟理事長林美羅準備"},{"start":17830.293,"end":17839.537,"text":"大家好 台灣障礙者權益促進會第二次發言我這邊就呼籲一下前一位的先進他的確拿了影片出來給大家看到身心障礙者的一個真實生活的樣態"},{"start":17849.961,"end":17872.423,"text":"在我第一次發言的最尾端就是說其實上下車這件事情其實是對於不管是輪椅使用者或者是今天有親子家庭要推娃娃車的這些家庭是不是正在這一次修法的時候我們可以有一個更完善的"},{"start":17874.086,"end":17888.427,"text":"規劃 例如說今天可能大多數的人都居住在社區跟公寓裡那可能在這個巷弄裡面沒有這麼好的上下車的一個環境跟條件下"},{"start":17888.968,"end":17898.636,"text":"那什麼樣的狀況是可以上下車的然後如果今天我是叫無障礙計程車或者是等等的狀況下怎麼樣這個駕駛不會被罰或者是我也不會被罰"},{"start":17904.62,"end":17905.341,"text":"法規完善以後也可以對於民眾"},{"start":17923.052,"end":17944.163,"text":"或對於一些職業駕駛們去做一些教育宣導不然就不會有像剛剛真的有駕駛的前輩們講的就是說真的碰到輪椅或碰到老人真的動作比較慢然後真的就不為了怕被罰錢就不載"},{"start":17945.183,"end":17965.191,"text":"那我覺得這個真的是一個我們這一群人就是弱勢中的弱勢那這一些狀況下請大家可以好好的去思考清楚說這一個道路或這一個交通等等的可以怎麼樣的安排怎麼樣的"},{"start":17965.971,"end":17966.752,"text":"請交通安全協會陳宏毅理事長準備"},{"start":17994.92,"end":18003.607,"text":"謝謝主席 台灣安全駕駛監督聯盟第二次發言違規違罪不計點違規違罪不檢舉我要請問誰能保證違規違罪不會釀貨不會出人命"},{"start":18011.34,"end":18011.4,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":18031.926,"end":18034.147,"text":"請中央部不要再迴避請你給我們駕訓駕照及駕駛管理制度的2.0改善計畫請你給我們這樣一個改善計畫我們從源頭來管理來改善這樣的一個開除不適應駕駛的制度再來我要強調的是"},{"start":18059.81,"end":18060.03,"text":"修法公聽會"},{"start":18078.516,"end":18092.446,"text":"二十三萬件的未戴安全帽創下八年來的新高試問﹖如果沒有這些取締﹖那麼致死率有多高呢﹖"},{"start":18097.915,"end":18098.095,"text":"主席"},{"start":18123.21,"end":18131.774,"text":"謝謝現在請陳宏毅理事長發言下一位也是交通安全協會的秘書長吳瑞琳請準備各位與會的這個"},{"start":18146.32,"end":18166.414,"text":"先進還有這些我們交通主管單位的長官們我覺得最終我們現在這個整個法令看來其實我們覺得道路本來就不是獨佔或是分配或是霸佔用轟強的模式在處理這個交通管理條例的修正"},{"start":18167.728,"end":18168.408,"text":"修法公聽會"},{"start":18184.039,"end":18212.255,"text":"其實就是普遍的被害啦其實坦白說所有用路人都在承擔這個環境不良設置不佳然後整個法規沒有完整比如說我們最近說白石線10公分的部分能不能超越其實從中央一直到地方從交通採取所交通大隊一直問這個白石線車道分隔線可不可以跨越其實莫衷於是原來的法條呢就有行政裁量讓他自由解釋的空間這一點我們"},{"start":18213.115,"end":18218.105,"text":"也在這個法條上面不管看的其實都沒有要求自己怎麼去做那其實呢這個"},{"start":18220.219,"end":18247.846,"text":"交通所有的告發條件呢全世界都是一樣以現場取締抓到違規人為最糟的指導原則而不是去設定在車輛我們現在是抓車不抓人啦人你抓不到剛才說的科技執法好科技怎麼執法科技可以把人抓下來嗎我們有機器我們有機械戰警嗎沒有所以呢也抓不到人二來呢普遍超速的狀態之下呢我也不曉得我們的內政部警政署"},{"start":18248.266,"end":18248.766,"text":"我第二次發言到此"},{"start":18274.758,"end":18289.838,"text":"好 謝謝現在請吳瑞琳秘書長發言下一位請下一代學生行人入權聯盟總召王敬謙來做準備來那個來我們來處理 謝謝"},{"start":18294.362,"end":18316.012,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝各位與會的貴賓台灣交通安全協會秘書長吳瑞玲第一次發言那我是想說分享幾個生活經驗啦我從2022年10月中台灣開放國境我就一直出入境我的經驗大概不超過就不下100次我最常看到的智慧執法就是在機場周邊接送客"},{"start":18316.952,"end":18327.303,"text":"這些家人們大家好像看到智慧執法他還是沒有什麼感覺我覺得最切身的感覺就是警察來巡邏了那個警鳴聲大家都開走了"},{"start":18328.254,"end":18328.374,"text":"修法公聽會．召開"},{"start":18351.36,"end":18370.3,"text":"呃我跟你說齁你訂的餐廳沒有停車場你必須坐電車去我剛開始聽我不能接受你知道嗎後來才發現原來日本其實很多地方你要訂的餐廳是要有停車場他才會直接在店下給你下課沒有的話你必須在離他很遠的私人停車的場域"},{"start":18371.801,"end":18380.806,"text":"我相信最近櫻花大開了 大家也會到前朝觀音寺啦 或者到京都到處去賞花 你們一定會發現 你們走很多路去餐廳"},{"start":18382.08,"end":18390.663,"text":"為什麼 因為車子要停在停車場你要去的地方 你必須自己走路過去像我剛剛聽的不管是職業駕駛還是我們就是入權團體大家一直討論的那個問題就是說這個違規停車什麼樣的可是我不曉得為什麼這幾次的公聽會我參加不止一次我從來沒有看到就是說很常被開違規停車場域的經營者也來參與公聽會"},{"start":18407.668,"end":18430.769,"text":"是你造成的耶道路道路是我們通行的路不是給你上下車你不能把你的經營成本轉嫁到我們道路使用者或者行人的安全上我覺得這個部分是不能妥協的譬如現在台灣有這麼多各大超商或者是大家開店很喜歡開在轉角這些地方就是很容易違規停車啊"},{"start":18432.23,"end":18432.43,"text":"施政委員"},{"start":18450.808,"end":18451.408,"text":"以上謝謝各位 謝謝主席"},{"start":18481.45,"end":18487.888,"text":"好 謝謝現在請王敬謙總召發言"},{"start":18496.845,"end":18523.551,"text":"各位與會的先進還有各位委員們大家好那其實我在來第二次發言的時候我就是想要再次強調我最堅持的兩點訴求第一個是我們剛才有講到的說有五點包含說未戴安全帽騎車抽煙還有停在快車道跟逆向停車命牌停車以及最重要的身心障礙車會停車這五點是千萬不能夠取消的因為它不能用民怨來解釋"},{"start":18524.912,"end":18549.789,"text":"我想 民眾在日常的生活中 一定基本上有一些基本的道德良知那尤其是在攝障車位這個部分其實是 不可以去做停放 應該是大家必須有的共識但因為這次的修法 過於片面在一千兩百元以下 都統一來不做規範所以我要在這邊再次強調說對於攝障車位這個部分 必須要特別的去重視"},{"start":18551.109,"end":18578.872,"text":"那再來其實因為在過去還有很多團體間的溝通以及跟政府間的溝通常會提到民怨兩個字那其實我個人的想法是因為依照我過往的經歷來看民怨之所以會有民怨很大一部分是因為政府根本民眾根本不清楚政府完整的政策也就是說尤其是像祭典制度跟檢舉制度這兩項東西在最近這幾年是一直朝令夕改的"},{"start":18579.298,"end":18597.416,"text":"那很多民眾根本不清楚說現在紅黃線一般的紅黃線已經不請檢舉很多民眾根本不清楚說監獄達人其實不可以檢舉說就是你在很一般的紅黃線停車阿或是一些比較輕微的東西現在我們要解操的這些東西都不只是違罪而是更容易造成交通危險的行為"},{"start":18598.337,"end":18616.21,"text":"所以我想政府應該要在這個方面多加著力也就是說讓我們的民眾知道說監獄達人的存在不是說他騎機車頭上戴一個行車紀錄器就等於他要檢舉你而是說他現在人檢舉的情況已經變得非常的少只有像轉角並排還有更多的危險行為才可以檢舉"},{"start":18617.742,"end":18634.017,"text":"好 那至於說其實常常就是會有一些職業家子有提到說像是計程車上下載客的問題那其實我個人有一點想法就是說其實如果我們的政府一直沒有辦法對這個東西就是做一些工廠的設計那我想看能不能從"},{"start":18634.557,"end":18634.757,"text":"修法公聽會：完整"},{"start":18661.272,"end":18684.716,"text":"那最後我想跟江部來講一件事情就是說常常會在講民怨民怨這個東西那其實我想強調的是雖然我們現在一直在講民怨但我們最多的在講說違規者的民怨交通方便的人的民怨但是從來都沒有提到過像我們這些交通弱勢者學生身上族群還有老人的民怨所以我想江部應該也要重視一下我們目前的民怨以上謝謝那"},{"start":18689.813,"end":18700.368,"text":"我們的第1輪發言已經全部發言完畢現在請交通部林福山市長來做說明"},{"start":18711.003,"end":18727.082,"text":"針對第二輪發言的一個部分我大概中整一下大概有幾個重點大概就是說第一個部分這個弱勢用戶人的一個這個群議那另外一個部分的話大概是這個陳凱玲這個理事長大概有提到一些相關配套措施的部分那這個部分我大概這個簡單重點這個報告一下"},{"start":18730.567,"end":18744.783,"text":"這個弱勢擁護人在道路上面的權益是大家都必須要去這一個保護的我想這個是一個普世的一個這個價值那確實就是說那這個現行相關包括我們的這一個人行道或等等的部分"},{"start":18745.143,"end":18745.464,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":18761.647,"end":18761.667,"text":"陳凱玲議員"},{"start":18779.722,"end":18800.851,"text":"如果碰到一些違規停車或是說大家路邊這個比較常看到這個商業營業車輛貨車的一些上下貨的這個配套措施的一個部分我跟各位報告在112年這個交通部及公務總局就特別針對貨車制定一個上下貨的一個這個注意事項的一個這個手冊"},{"start":18802.432,"end":18831.047,"text":"那這裡面就包括這個要置放三角錐或是這個四方要有警示的一個部分而且後方要有人在做引導的一個部分那這個部分我們會在這個通函給相關的這個婚姻公會要求所屬的這個業者對所屬的駕駛人跟這個車輛的部分要落實這個部分那這個部分的話我們也會請公路局把這個部分列入這個婚姻業相關平常這個安全考核的一個查核的一個事項"},{"start":18831.527,"end":18831.607,"text":"規定各類違規"},{"start":18857.634,"end":18858.215,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":18873.626,"end":18873.886,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":18894.688,"end":18919.27,"text":"最近針對有一些違規紀錄風險較高的這個部分交通部正在研議恢復定期換照的部分那目前這個之前大概有這個預告過那現在再重新做調整就是說針對吊扣駕駛執照一年以下吊扣駕駛執照一年以上還有這個吊銷駕照重新照考慮的時候然後要"},{"start":18919.73,"end":18919.97,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":18950.311,"end":18950.451,"text":"路邊大圍艇時代"},{"start":18961.721,"end":18982.038,"text":"我跟各位報告就是說民眾檢舉並不是處罰條例57年制定就有民眾檢舉的制度是在86年才增進來這樣子的一個制度那大家去如果有興趣其實就是說在這個內政部檢控署官網都可以查到國內每一年舉發交通違規的這個案件數"},{"start":18983.52,"end":19010.698,"text":"這個我如果印象沒錯的話從86年87年1200多1300多到應該是到90年快到這一個兩件件那裡面這個進行舉發的一個這一個部分基本上都是這個一大概跟當場難檢大概是1比3那在這個90幾年之前其實進行舉發的案件數都是警察機關的一個執法裡面很少是民眾這一個檢舉的部分那"},{"start":19011.258,"end":19037.354,"text":"後來到這個相關數位的一個設備比較先進之後那其實大家看到後面有一陣子這個執法政策強調就是當場這個燃艇的部分後面又降回來大概這個900多萬1000多萬這個出頭那後面這個就是說民眾檢舉多了之後這個相關每年舉發的案件數大概又回到1700多1800多所以大家提到的一個這個部分"},{"start":19038.214,"end":19065.581,"text":"從每年這個原來警察機關這個當場攔檢跟進行舉報的案件數跟後來民眾有加入就是說有這個增進民眾檢舉項目之後其實這些相關總執法的案件數基本上都這個差不多那這個但是呢裡面有一些這個民眾的檢舉案件這個上來之後原來要彌補警力不足的一個部分到最後是警力是要回過頭來處理民眾檢舉這些相關的部分那剛剛"},{"start":19066.681,"end":19066.881,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":19090.185,"end":19109.868,"text":"警察大概就這個舉發舉發完之後後面這個駕駛人要去申訴要去處理就有一些這個確實民眾檢舉裡面會有一些這些相關的一個這個情況那所有法規的一個這個規定的部分我這邊可能就是藉這個機會再跟這個各位報告都是"},{"start":19110.669,"end":19134.185,"text":"必須要尋求一個比較橫頻的一個這個處理方式來做一個處理啦那這個橫頻的一個部分的話基本上是環境跟各項包括工程執法監理教育大家項目配套可能在那個階段是一個比較適當的一個這個處理方式但是這些相關的這個規定基本上都會滾動做一個檢討去因應"},{"start":19136.647,"end":19137.367,"text":"陳彥博次長有做補充說明嗎?好"},{"start":19160.521,"end":19184.806,"text":"剛才那個有關這個修法的相關的議題大概都也有說明了那也會有在後續我們再來檢討的時候再來跟大家再來就教但是剛才在裡頭提出來一個有關交通安全也是大家經常在講的這個我可以稍微來跟回應一下因為這個跟這個議題但是整體上是有關的"},{"start":19186.146,"end":19208.142,"text":"很多人都會一直談到現在的道路的相關的規範剛才講到應該是同學講到的說是不是紅線上下貨避讓等等應該是交通安全等很多人都有特別提到那個相關的規範是不是應該要有相關的指引等等的或者是說有什麼在道路工程的設計有什麼不一樣的或標示標線設計或是剛才講的機車的這個兩段式左轉等等的"},{"start":19213.005,"end":19219.691,"text":"這些問題我跟大家報告一下,在我們的交通部的推動計畫裡面,我們會在運輸研究所會有一個小組,會邀請大家就這些問題,會來做進一步的討論"},{"start":19232.021,"end":19258.403,"text":"那至於說有關道路工程的部分我想我們公路總局也會有一個機制跟大家來討論意思就是說務必讓而後在道路上的相關的這種交通標誌標線號誌或者是道路設計等等的這些都有相關大家可以各縣市政府都可以一致的然後也包含交通部或內政部也好也都有一致的一個規範來也不會造成一國有多致的一個情形"},{"start":19258.883,"end":19280.998,"text":"那至於說剛才特別有特別提到說有關交通工程改善的一個情形剛才我也跟我們陸正吉道恩司司長有特別提到就是說有關像大家講的說什麼卸貨區域到底怎麼怎麼到底已經改善了多好啊或者是黃線有的幾個原來是紅線的有幾個地方已經改成黃線等等的這個"},{"start":19281.678,"end":19307.906,"text":"在以後的這個各縣市的這個推動計畫裡頭我們會去來要求那像以後的相關的道安市市長我們也會來予以注意以上好 謝謝其他官員有要做補充說明嗎沒有的話我請問在座的學者專家以及團體代表有沒有要進行第三輪的發言如果有要發言請來登記好"},{"start":19311.408,"end":19337.491,"text":"還有沒有其他的代表要發言的時間也是3分鐘好了好我要提醒所有還是回歸到我今天的主軸就是實際的狀況我提醒各位一件事情監理系統現在在規則祭奠這件事情以我的案例來講 我有一張罰單"},{"start":19341.179,"end":19346.105,"text":"現在是4月了它的規則目前監理系統只到12月所以其實法條的修正我還是要回歸到一件事情就是說"},{"start":19356.345,"end":19373.256,"text":"主管機關因為民怨 因為有一些實際的狀況他提出了整體考量的修正之後他是第一階段可以去做的事情可是當大家在這裡或是堅持各自立場的時候卻沒有去思考到一件"},{"start":19374.176,"end":19395.119,"text":"很重要的事情是當你堅持這個法條到最後的時候其實背後所衍生的配套的問題還有你看不到的問題到底是有什麼我舉個簡單的例子當我的規則沒有辦法從即時到我的身上來的時候我的車輛是不能異動的"},{"start":19397.95,"end":19425.896,"text":"你知道現在有多少車行的車司機可能不開了可能有很多的狀況他現在是沒有辦法移動因為監理系統塞大車今天有很多的那個裁決所的所長都有來你們一定很有感可是問題是這些事情我覺得交通部委員應該要打一下屁股有沒有把這些執行的細節的困難讓我們的委員還有讓社會大眾知道"},{"start":19427.096,"end":19449.625,"text":"我們不斷在爭議一件事情就是說到底這個法到底對還是不對可是我們忽略了最後最重要一件事情是你執行了以後你背後所產生的問題到底現在的進度是什麼而影響一般老百姓還有大眾的人實際上面的生存到底狀況是什麼"},{"start":19450.58,"end":19474.678,"text":"我覺得加入在這件事情上面其實沒有善盡到告知所有社會大眾包含委員你們的困難還有背後所衍生的問題回歸到最後一句話你不要違規就好各位大家今天提了很多數據我提一個我最實在的每天的數據我一天載25個客人我違規49.5次"},{"start":19481.414,"end":19507.051,"text":"為什麼少0.5次你知道嗎?因為那個客人我到了定點之後他放我鳥我沒載到所以我沒辦法第50趟的違規這就是現在我們的問題另外我最後強調一件事情啊職業駕駛不是不怕罰錢啦我跟各位講我是五口五口你賺的我怕罰錢我更怕祭典謝謝"},{"start":19509.616,"end":19512.458,"text":"好 謝謝 現在請陳鴻業理事長發言其他的學者專家團體代表有要發言的請登記或舉手有關於剛才這個職業駕駛所表達的意見也是跟我們自用車駕駛是一模一樣的處境用的越多 領的越多 罰的越多"},{"start":19537.725,"end":19560.084,"text":"當然 祭典跟罰款 都是我們的痛如果他們祭的典 又被罰款我們希望呢 在這個裁決的部分呢我們有類似警告啦 小過啦 大過啦 而不是一刀砍的全部用一定的處罰條例我們一直講說 是不是可以祭典 就不要罰款不行 我們一定要罰款"},{"start":19560.945,"end":19569.271,"text":"那要罰款以前就有罰款的現在對所有用路人來講他覺得是雙重處罰但是民眾舉發的是不是我們記點不罰款那就減少一大部分的人那記點不罰款警察有沒有開警告單黃單的我覺得勸導而不裁罰這是一個假議題啦"},{"start":19580.58,"end":19580.96,"text":"修法公聽會．"},{"start":19602.242,"end":19623.013,"text":"不是不罰只是我告知你我警戒你說我會開Yellow Ticket給你黃單警告你你在兩個禮拜內你又發生同樣的違規你是常在性違規我上面那張單就成立了我們一定要有賞有罰啦而不是只是一直想要罰款一直去強調人家怎麼我覺得大家都被迫違規啦"},{"start":19624.053,"end":19639.912,"text":"超速為什麼超速是我們最多的問題因為我們的道路速限不合理嘛所以普遍大家都超速區間這是我們可以拿來好好運用啊我們把他抓來的所有的每個月100個我們要抓前30名超速最嚴重的我們要罰嘛其他70%我們就知道了"},{"start":19643.476,"end":19656.488,"text":"85分位在哪裡嘛那個道路是不是合理速限嘛我們就可以制定出良好的速限而不是我們只是科技執法是為了罰錢而不是為了改良交通我覺得我們的改良交通是不存在的"},{"start":19658.97,"end":19678.164,"text":"這個駕駛人沒有辦法上課載貨一般的用路人他也沒有辦法把載我的家人 帶我的東西進出啦一模模一樣樣 只是他們站在了火線上他們今天背了一個黑鍋啦 為什麼因為他們是 已經動不了了 他們先出來講"},{"start":19679.105,"end":19679.325,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":19697.418,"end":19718.349,"text":"所以正在台灣交通安全協會這個和諧運行平權使用的立場我們希望不管是機車行人腳踏車各路的用路人都可以獲得最良好的用路的條件的保障警察也要負起他職責的責任而不要丟給民眾謝謝大家好 謝謝現在請林美羅理事長發言"},{"start":19728.049,"end":19732.993,"text":"謝謝主席安江盟第三次發言我不懂交通部為什麼要等到這個草案逐條審查的時候才要提供給委員或者是對外公開我們昨天在深夜的時候得到這樣的一個資訊據統計112年6月30號祭典新制實施到113年3月6號祭滿12點者共有"},{"start":19754.028,"end":19775.346,"text":"一萬六千三百一十二人職業駕駛兩千一百七十三人普通駕駛一萬四千一百三十九人其主要的違規事項前五項我說給大家參考第一項第四十條一般道路超速佔二十趴第二項第三十三條高快速"},{"start":19776.067,"end":19779.188,"text":"公路違規占15%第三項第55條違規臨停占13%第4項第53條一項的闖紅登記3點占12%第5項第48條違規依規定轉彎或變換車道的占12%"},{"start":19797.558,"end":19799.481,"text":"為什麼交通部我們從倡議到現在交通部始終不公開透明為什麼這些數據不敢面對全民面對公民團體的這個檢驗以上"},{"start":19816.091,"end":19830.544,"text":"謝謝,我們第一輪總共有21人次發言第二輪有10人次發言第三輪有3人次發言那我們現在還是請交通部來做一個說明來,林福山市長"},{"start":19840.444,"end":19840.584,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":19862.088,"end":19863.569,"text":"其他單位有要做補充說明嗎"},{"start":19893.434,"end":19914.62,"text":"我先向各位與會代表報告公聽會是收集社會各界學者專家團體代表大家的意見、看法、建議來作為我們相關的立法委員在針對特定法案修法的時候的重要參考依據"},{"start":19915.58,"end":19939.116,"text":"所以今天都讓大家充分的表達意見那今天不是巡打不是巡打那各位的意見都會充分的記錄在我們的除了現場的轉播之外另外也會有相關的在10日內依照立法院職權刑事法第58條必須製作報告將各位的發言"},{"start":19940.657,"end":19967.989,"text":"交給所有的113位立法委員每人都要有一份然後與會的代表也要有一份這是58條所明文規定的那59條也明文規定公聽會的這一些發言是立法委員針對特定議案的修法的重要參考依據那我還是不曉得各位還有什麼要補充意見嗎"},{"start":19970.612,"end":19997.76,"text":"如果沒有的話我來做今天的這樣的一個本次公聽會的結語報告跟說明依據立法院職權行使法第58條規定委員會因與公聽會終結後10日內依出席者所提供之正反意見提出公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及出席者"},{"start":19999.025,"end":20024.979,"text":"另外第59條規定公聽會報告作為審查該特定議案之參考我們會將所有出席人員的發言及書面資料綜合歸納除了刊登公報之外並會編成公聽會的報告送交本院全體委員及所有出席貴賓參閱"},{"start":20027.841,"end":20040.969,"text":"並作為未來審查特定議案的參考再次感謝各位的出席以及提供寶貴的意見本日會議到此結束 散會謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":20063.116,"end":20065.94,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},{"id":"15786","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15786","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbbb5d33df7eda7d079b5fa2f296a935343be8d109af184be4a4f506d6e80acf885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(處理)）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-03","start_time":"2024-04-03T08:29:59+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-6"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-03T09:35:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":3901,"委員發言時間":"08:29:59 - 09:35:00","影片長度":"01:05:01","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":0.28409375000000003,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.03909375,"end":2.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.44409375,"end":3.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18.40784375,"end":19.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20.48346875,"end":21.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":39.940343750000004,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.024718750000005,"end":40.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":40.32846875,"end":40.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.73346875,"end":40.885343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.049718750000004,"end":42.150968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.16784375,"end":42.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.235343750000006,"end":42.252218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.26909375,"end":42.758468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":45.087218750000005,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":47.26409375,"end":49.947218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":48.93471875,"end":49.424093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":50.065343750000004,"end":50.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":50.95971875,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":62.924093750000004,"end":66.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":67.85159375,"end":71.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":71.96909375,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":72.10409375,"end":74.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":75.76596875,"end":76.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":76.52534375,"end":78.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":78.17909375,"end":78.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":91.08846875,"end":92.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":92.03346875000001,"end":93.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":93.02909375,"end":94.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":94.71659375,"end":97.72034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":99.45846875000001,"end":100.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":101.97284375000001,"end":102.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":102.12471875,"end":103.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":104.48721875000001,"end":106.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.59659375000001,"end":106.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":106.63034375000001,"end":106.64721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.64721875000001,"end":106.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":106.74846875,"end":106.78221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.78221875000001,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":106.83284375000001,"end":107.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":108.53721875000001,"end":108.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":113.07659375,"end":113.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":114.46034375,"end":115.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":115.47284375000001,"end":116.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":116.62034375,"end":120.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.48471875000001,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":120.65346875,"end":120.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.70409375000001,"end":121.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":121.58159375000001,"end":122.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.97784375,"end":126.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.80034375000001,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":130.12034375000002,"end":130.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":130.18784375,"end":130.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":133.52909375000002,"end":139.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":154.25159375,"end":157.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":167.97096875,"end":177.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":177.67409375,"end":186.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":185.75721875000002,"end":187.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":187.52909375000002,"end":187.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":188.00159375,"end":188.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":188.01846875,"end":189.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":189.58784375000002,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":191.14034375,"end":192.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":193.08096875,"end":193.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":193.16534375,"end":193.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":193.18221875,"end":194.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":193.55346875,"end":194.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":195.81471875000003,"end":201.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":208.33596875,"end":211.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":212.67284375000003,"end":214.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":215.32221875000002,"end":222.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.72284375,"end":216.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":223.11846875,"end":224.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.65409375000002,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":226.71284375000002,"end":230.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":235.57221875000002,"end":239.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":239.65596875000003,"end":241.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":241.91721875000002,"end":241.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":243.13221875000002,"end":245.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":247.41846875000002,"end":250.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":250.81034375000002,"end":254.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":254.35409375,"end":256.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":256.90221875000003,"end":257.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":258.11721875,"end":258.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":259.02846875,"end":259.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":259.88909375000003,"end":261.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":261.71159375,"end":265.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":261.74534375,"end":261.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":264.74909375000004,"end":265.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":265.28909375,"end":268.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":269.11971875,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":269.17034375000003,"end":269.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":271.56659375000004,"end":272.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":272.95034375,"end":274.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":274.95846875,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":275.48159375,"end":276.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":276.96659375,"end":281.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":277.00034375,"end":277.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":281.64096875,"end":286.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":287.07471875000005,"end":288.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":287.17596875000004,"end":288.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":288.35721875,"end":288.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":288.66096875,"end":288.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":289.20096875,"end":291.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":292.10346875,"end":295.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":293.08221875000004,"end":293.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":295.68096875000003,"end":297.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":297.13221875,"end":298.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":297.18284375,"end":298.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":298.71846875,"end":302.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":303.52784375000005,"end":305.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":305.28284375000004,"end":305.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":305.33346875,"end":305.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":305.63721875000005,"end":305.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":305.97471875,"end":306.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":306.02534375000005,"end":307.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":306.43034375,"end":310.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":310.88534375,"end":310.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":310.96971875,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":311.03721875,"end":311.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":312.55596875000003,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":312.58971875000003,"end":312.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":312.62346875000003,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":312.64034375,"end":312.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":312.67409375,"end":313.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":316.60596875000005,"end":319.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":319.79534375000003,"end":329.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":320.01471875000004,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.44471875,"end":322.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":323.45721875000004,"end":324.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":327.33846875,"end":327.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":335.10096875000005,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":338.13846875,"end":339.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1872.19409375,"end":1873.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1876.1765937500002,"end":1878.4884687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1879.5515937500002,"end":1881.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1882.2684687500002,"end":1883.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1884.27659375,"end":1889.1534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1890.04784375,"end":1897.1353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1897.8947187500003,"end":1910.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1903.5309687500003,"end":1903.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1910.8378437500003,"end":1918.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1918.8028437500002,"end":1926.1097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1926.61596875,"end":1933.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1933.8553437500002,"end":1942.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1943.8115937500002,"end":1950.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1950.8990937500002,"end":1951.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1951.6922187500002,"end":1952.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1953.1097187500002,"end":1955.2865937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1955.5397187500002,"end":1960.7034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1961.0915937500001,"end":1969.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1969.7315937500002,"end":1980.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1981.4090937500002,"end":1995.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1994.7572187500002,"end":1994.9428437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1995.93846875,"end":2005.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2005.92846875,"end":2013.9272187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2014.3828437500001,"end":2017.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2018.4665937500001,"end":2031.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2032.5403437500001,"end":2039.0372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2039.40846875,"end":2044.1165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2044.47096875,"end":2048.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2048.62221875,"end":2050.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2050.8834687500002,"end":2062.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2063.4215937500003,"end":2086.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2087.1140937500004,"end":2089.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2089.86471875,"end":2106.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2107.1784687500003,"end":2121.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2121.8259687500004,"end":2123.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2123.7497187500003,"end":2128.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2131.30971875,"end":2135.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2136.7097187500003,"end":2138.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2139.3084687500004,"end":2149.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2153.43284375,"end":2159.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2160.08159375,"end":2166.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2166.7809687500003,"end":2168.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2169.22784375,"end":2182.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2183.16659375,"end":2186.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2186.35596875,"end":2188.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2188.6678437500004,"end":2200.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2200.09221875,"end":2204.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2204.73284375,"end":2205.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2206.1503437500005,"end":2209.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2209.49159375,"end":2212.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2213.0184687500005,"end":2222.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2222.6540937500004,"end":2226.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2226.18096875,"end":2230.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2230.6190937500005,"end":2234.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2235.39471875,"end":2237.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2237.99346875,"end":2239.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2239.39409375,"end":2240.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2240.40659375,"end":2242.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2243.4440937500003,"end":2244.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2244.79409375,"end":2248.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2249.3503437500003,"end":2252.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2253.01221875,"end":2256.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2256.7078437500004,"end":2260.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2260.67346875,"end":2262.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2262.6647187500002,"end":2267.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2267.35596875,"end":2271.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2271.7097187500003,"end":2274.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2274.9834687500006,"end":2278.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2279.47221875,"end":2285.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2285.61471875,"end":2288.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2288.7197187500005,"end":2292.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2292.43221875,"end":2293.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2293.49534375,"end":2296.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2297.12346875,"end":2299.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2300.80221875,"end":2303.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2303.43471875,"end":2306.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2307.0459687500006,"end":2311.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2311.95659375,"end":2315.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2316.04034375,"end":2318.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2319.43221875,"end":2324.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2325.1865937500006,"end":2326.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2326.72221875,"end":2329.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2330.02971875,"end":2332.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2332.7634687500004,"end":2334.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2335.4297187500006,"end":2339.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2339.91846875,"end":2342.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2343.05721875,"end":2345.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2346.31409375,"end":2347.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2348.2547187500004,"end":2350.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2351.2247187500006,"end":2353.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2353.7897187500002,"end":2356.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2356.97909375,"end":2359.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2360.47221875,"end":2363.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2363.94846875,"end":2366.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2366.9522187500006,"end":2368.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2369.31471875,"end":2372.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2372.87534375,"end":2377.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2378.2247187500006,"end":2380.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2381.02596875,"end":2383.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2384.99159375,"end":2386.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2386.6622187500006,"end":2387.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2387.8603437500005,"end":2390.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2391.1003437500003,"end":2392.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2392.9903437500006,"end":2395.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2395.84221875,"end":2398.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2399.4197187500004,"end":2402.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2403.1490937500002,"end":2406.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2406.92909375,"end":2407.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2408.43096875,"end":2410.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2411.1140937500004,"end":2412.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2412.9365937500006,"end":2416.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2416.7165937500004,"end":2419.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2420.42909375,"end":2421.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2422.23471875,"end":2425.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2425.8797187500004,"end":2427.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2428.14096875,"end":2433.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2433.9628437500005,"end":2434.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2435.32971875,"end":2437.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2437.9284687500003,"end":2441.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2441.26971875,"end":2441.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2442.5859687500006,"end":2445.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2446.0790937500005,"end":2448.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2449.2009687500004,"end":2450.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2451.0065937500003,"end":2455.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2455.63034375,"end":2461.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2461.7390937500004,"end":2466.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2467.2403437500006,"end":2470.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2471.42534375,"end":2472.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2472.87659375,"end":2476.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2476.5722187500005,"end":2479.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2479.96409375,"end":2482.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2482.63034375,"end":2483.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2484.36846875,"end":2487.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2488.16534375,"end":2493.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2494.25721875,"end":2498.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2499.18471875,"end":2503.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2504.3653437500006,"end":2509.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2510.22096875,"end":2510.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2510.6934687500006,"end":2512.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2512.33034375,"end":2514.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2515.8065937500005,"end":2521.3415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2521.8309687500005,"end":2527.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2527.5515937500004,"end":2528.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2529.3572187500004,"end":2534.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2534.4197187500004,"end":2537.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2538.26721875,"end":2542.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2543.0428437500004,"end":2547.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2547.27846875,"end":2550.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2551.14284375,"end":2553.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2554.28159375,"end":2559.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2559.83346875,"end":2563.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2564.2715937500006,"end":2569.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2569.89096875,"end":2573.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2573.4178437500004,"end":2575.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2575.67909375,"end":2579.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2579.42534375,"end":2580.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2580.6572187500005,"end":2583.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2584.25159375,"end":2588.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2589.76971875,"end":2590.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2591.00159375,"end":2596.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2597.3465937500005,"end":2600.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2601.24471875,"end":2604.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2604.72096875,"end":2607.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2607.80909375,"end":2615.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2616.5840937500006,"end":2620.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2620.39784375,"end":2621.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2621.5115937500004,"end":2625.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2625.93284375,"end":2628.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2628.8522187500002,"end":2630.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2630.5397187500002,"end":2633.2565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2633.71221875,"end":2638.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2638.6903437500005,"end":2639.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2640.05721875,"end":2642.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2642.6053437500004,"end":2645.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2645.76096875,"end":2646.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2647.81971875,"end":2648.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2648.8828437500006,"end":2651.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2652.0215937500006,"end":2655.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2655.2784687500007,"end":2655.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2656.4765937500006,"end":2660.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2660.8640937500004,"end":2665.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2666.14596875,"end":2669.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2670.41534375,"end":2673.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2674.0772187500006,"end":2676.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2677.11471875,"end":2680.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2680.60784375,"end":2682.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2683.42596875,"end":2688.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2689.34909375,"end":2692.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2692.9434687500006,"end":2695.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2695.96409375,"end":2698.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2698.86659375,"end":2700.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2704.77284375,"end":2705.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2706.62909375,"end":2710.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2710.9490937500004,"end":2711.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2711.7928437500004,"end":2715.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2716.1972187500005,"end":2717.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2718.32346875,"end":2719.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2720.2809687500003,"end":2720.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2721.2597187500005,"end":2721.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2721.76596875,"end":2723.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2723.2509687500005,"end":2724.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2724.76971875,"end":2725.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2725.6472187500003,"end":2726.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2727.25034375,"end":2729.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2729.35971875,"end":2732.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3000.1190937500005,"end":3002.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3004.3209687500002,"end":3006.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3007.39221875,"end":3011.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3855.2597187500005,"end":3857.3859687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3857.3859687500008,"end":3881.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3857.4197187500004,"end":3857.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3881.87159375,"end":3882.6647187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":18.57,"end":28.896,"text":"看有沒有搖了搖去你那邊就覺得自己在搖喔有啦有來啦只是還沒下"},{"start":44.711,"end":46.712,"text":"我剛去那邊賭,然後我不知道要賭到哪裡去"},{"start":68.888,"end":73.429,"text":"有沒有倒啊有沒有房子倒了那麼大應該我覺得一定很嚴重"},{"start":105.247,"end":130.93,"text":"1、2、3"},{"start":154.124,"end":166.478,"text":"昨天我昨天出來的時候,他就在電視上講到為什麼我長這麼大隻,長什麼大隻?因為我跟我講話,所以我打電話先過去給他,因為他就覺得我很大隻,所以他就給我一個工具。"},{"start":171.553,"end":172.494,"text":"大家在報平衡"},{"start":195.871,"end":221.805,"text":"我們怨言蠻嚴重的然後我剛就趕快叫瑋瑋過去馬家因為馬打不通電話瑋瑋去了啊後來瑋瑋找到啦對瑋瑋好聰明喔她就到處去找可是現在她不能爬樓梯怎麼辦啊也不敢然後瑋瑋就說怎麼辦OK嗎"},{"start":226.934,"end":239.762,"text":"哇 叫他們今天都不要再出門了好啦 你就跟他們講 叫他們...對啊 而且花很久欸 我 我要準備一個 等一下再跟你講好 掰掰"},{"start":250.998,"end":254.702,"text":"我們家有比很多其他家比較嚴重?"},{"start":254.702,"end":255.963,"text":"樓上?"},{"start":255.963,"end":257.124,"text":"上面全部掉下來 哪裡?"},{"start":257.124,"end":258.226,"text":"哪一家?"},{"start":258.226,"end":264.672,"text":"胃環胃環阿 現在是要修阿 那是不是越上面越搖的越好?"},{"start":264.672,"end":269.797,"text":"一定的阿 所以我們現在都很注意 所以我們剛剛第一時間趕快跑進來"},{"start":273.138,"end":300.304,"text":"剛第一時間那個門就碰啊沒辦法對啊這個剛才也不敢動真的不敢動然後也不知道躲到哪裡去比較好有啊 外面的沒有啊 我剛出去的時候那個東西就掉下來啦對面那個東西就掉下來啦有啊 那邊被風露了欸 所以他那邊那邊是什麼東西破掉你說四六兩那個 那個什麼那個牆壁牆壁又剝落了上次不是還要仔細檢查一下上次不是已經已經那個"},{"start":305.623,"end":327.387,"text":"今天有幾個委員要注意大樓瓷磚掉落要走七樓今天真的需要好可怕今天要帶帶傘出去也沒用啊那個瓷磚怎麼那麼重瓷磚壓下來是瞬間那個力氣很大"},{"start":338.868,"end":338.929,"text":"沒想過。"},{"start":757.834,"end":757.936,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1786.459,"end":1802.246,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1876.764,"end":1888.856,"text":"請主秘報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員7位以足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請先讀上次會議意思錄"},{"start":1890.1,"end":1894.902,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年3月25日星期一9時1分至11時51分3月27日星期三9時至11時15分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員區議員委員等14人列席委員中嘉賓委員等29人列席人員"},{"start":1911.55,"end":1925.597,"text":"113年3月25日星期一國發會主委龔明興暨相關人員主計總署專委黃子涵暨相關人員3月27日星期三經濟部政次陳正琦主計總署等相關人員主席邱昭杰委員預言"},{"start":1927.379,"end":1942.641,"text":"113年3月25日星期一報告事項一宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定二處理113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬預算凍結案6案國家發展委員會涵衛113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":1944.131,"end":1953.654,"text":"決議一、減送第二幕規劃及推動國家發展計畫綜合業務預算凍結100萬元書面報告案二、減送第三幕研擬經濟政策協調推動財經措施預算凍結80萬元書面報告案三、減送第四幕促進社會發展及計畫審議協調預算凍結100萬元書面報告案四、減送第五幕促進產業發展預算凍結200萬元書面報告案"},{"start":1970.218,"end":1972.159,"text":"5.減送第7目建權國土規劃及經營管理預算凍結100萬元書面報告案6."},{"start":1972.159,"end":1973.34,"text":"減送檔案管理局總稅出預算凍結500萬元書面報告案決定"},{"start":1981.445,"end":2003.097,"text":"第1案至第6案書面報告均已送達預算均得以動之擬據報告提報院會討論事項一審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案一一國家發展委員會含為113年度中央政府總預算決議簡訊第6目促進人力資源發展預算凍結100萬元書面報告案"},{"start":2006.259,"end":2007.78,"text":"討論事項何必詢答?"},{"start":2007.78,"end":2030.788,"text":"國發會主委龔明欣報告後委員邱志偉等18人提出質詢均由國發會公主委及相關人員即席答覆登記發言委員出不在場者為區域經營發言完畢詢答結束委員楊瓊英黃仁劉建國所提書面報告列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢案未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會決議第一案同意動之擬據報告"},{"start":2032.569,"end":2061.961,"text":"提報院會二審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管行政院國家發展基金離島建設基金花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金決議尋達結束令定期繼續審查113年3月27日星期三討論事項繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管台灣中油股份有限公司"},{"start":2064.159,"end":2089.336,"text":"決議假經濟部主管：台灣中有股份有限公司一業務計劃因依據營業收支生產成本轉投資重大之建設事業及資金運用等相致審查結果隨同調整二營業收支一營業總收入一兆兩千兩百五十四億五千五百六十一萬六千元照列二營業總支出不含所得稅費用一兆兩千兩百二十一億七千三百七十九萬六千元照列"},{"start":2090.196,"end":2095.159,"text":"稅前淨利328182萬元兆列3生產成本隨同營業總支出審查結果調整4轉投資計畫收回投資3980萬9千元兆列5中高資建設事業528億4993萬2千元兆列"},{"start":2107.724,"end":2116.591,"text":"6.資金運用因依據營業收支生產成本、盈虧撥補轉投資及重大之建設事業等向之審查結果,隨同調整7."},{"start":2116.591,"end":2118.392,"text":"補辦預算固定資產建設改良擴充5億7879萬7千元照列8."},{"start":2118.392,"end":2122.775,"text":"通過決議64項通過之決議,文字授權主席及議事人員整理、散會宣讀完畢好,因為在場委員不足三人,議事錄暫不確定"},{"start":2138.358,"end":2149.217,"text":"進行討論事項請先讀繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司今日處理宣讀完畢"},{"start":2153.679,"end":2179.886,"text":"一層首列臺水公司預算委員會在3月21日已經巡達完畢現在進行逐項審查依據預算法第50條及相關規定照業務計劃部分營業收支及生產成本轉投資計劃重大建設事業資金運用及補辦預算部分逐項審查現在請先讀近日審查項目"},{"start":2183.228,"end":2198.139,"text":"以委員提案先讀完畢後再進行協商請先讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案經濟部主管附屬單位預算營業部分台灣自來水股份有限公司因業務計劃請參閱預算書二營業收支營業總收入334億2797萬3千元營業總支出356億9459萬3千元稅前競損22億6662萬元"},{"start":2213.369,"end":2218.171,"text":"3.生產成本請參閱預算書4.轉投資計劃五列數5.重大資建設事業281億6,558萬6千元6.資金運用請參閱預算書7.補辦預算1.固定資產是建設改良擴充3億7,307萬6千元2.償還長期債務2億6,667萬元委員提案第1案營業收入增列20億元委員內內容等提案"},{"start":2243.479,"end":2271.124,"text":"第二案營業成本凍結一千萬元委員邱志偉等提案第三案銷售成本供水費用凍結一億元委員楊瓊英等提案第四案服務費用減劣兩千萬元凍結五千萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案第五案供水費用減劣三千萬元委員張家俊等提案第六案勞務成本用水用戶新設給水裝置成本凍結十分之一委員張家俊等提案第七案服務費用水電費減劣兩億元委員蕭一鳳等提案"},{"start":2271.764,"end":2297.461,"text":"第8案 檢列2000萬元委員張家俊等提案第9案 修理保養與保固費 檢列100萬元委員邱益穎等提案第10案 佔足包裝代理及加工費 檢列1000萬元凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案第11案 媒體政策及業務宣導費 檢列200萬元凍結200萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案第12案 材料及用品費 使用材料費原料 檢列1500萬元委員陳廷飛等提案"},{"start":2300.834,"end":2316.626,"text":"第13案使用材料費供水費用凍結800萬元委員張祺凱等提案第14案營業費用業務費用凍結10分之1委員鄭天才等提案第15案管理費用凍結10分之1委員鄭天才等提案第16案凍結5000萬元委員楊瓊英等提案"},{"start":2319.508,"end":2332.964,"text":"第17案其他營業費用研究發展費用凍結250萬元委員類內容等提案第18案撤案第19案營業外費用財務成本利息費用減業1億元委員類內容等提案第20案凍結10%"},{"start":2335.467,"end":2340.529,"text":"委員謝一鳳等提案,第21案凍結1000萬元委員邱志偉等提案,第22案固定資產建設改良擴充專案計劃繼續計劃凍結7500萬元委員陳亭飛等提案,第23案降低漏水率計劃"},{"start":2352.232,"end":2378.563,"text":"動輒10%委員蔡易瑜等提案。第24案動輒500萬元委員陳昌明等提案。第25案動輒500萬元委員張祺凱等提案。第26案動輒100萬元委員李玉琳等提案。第27案鳥嘴潭能工湖下游自來水供水工程計劃減列7億8千萬元委員邱志偉等提案。第28案老舊高地社區用戶加壓受水設備改善計劃動輒10%委員蔡易瑜等提案。"},{"start":2381.084,"end":2400.249,"text":"第29案,凍結100萬元委員呂毅玲等提案。第30案,撤案。第31案,無自來水地區供水改善計畫第4期自來水沿管工程,檢列2000萬元委員陳亭碑等提案。第32案,凍結10%委員蔡玉宇等提案。第33案,凍結1000萬元委員邱志偉等提案。第34案,凍結100萬元委員張祺凱等提案。"},{"start":2406.96,"end":2434.139,"text":"第35案建於過去曾發生臺南深壩電廠提供錯誤之徒之導致發生臺南山上淨水廠疑似公安事故要求臺水公司應於一個月內提出調查報告委員陳廷飛等提案第36案自來水公司應加強營運成本支控管省省評估調整合理水價請臺水公司於一個月內提出改善說明書面報告委員陳廷飛等提案第37案"},{"start":2435.774,"end":2447.374,"text":"請臺水公司於兩個月內提出減少漏水損失及提升用水效率之改善報告。針對高雄市第二選區每會期前提出北高雄自來水管線汰換規劃進度報告。"},{"start":2449.226,"end":2470.572,"text":"委員丘志偉等提案第38案鑒於臺水公司近年受水單位成本逐年攀升請臺水公司於兩個月內提出多元水源開發方案書面報告委員丘志偉等提案第39案請臺水公司於兩個月內提出老舊高地社區用戶加壓受水設備改善計劃進度檢討書面報告委員丘志偉等提案"},{"start":2471.462,"end":2493.409,"text":"第40案請臺水公司就近年給水單位成本逐年增加詳時評估現行水價計算方式之合理性並強化營運成本之控管委員楊瓊英等提案第41案為改善高地老舊社區嚴重漏水問題請臺水公司強化工程進度之控管提高計畫執行成效委員楊瓊英等提案"},{"start":2494.289,"end":2514.458,"text":"第42案請臺水公司審慎規劃海淡水與地下水之運用加強地下水監測作業以確保供水穩定性委員楊瓊英等提案第43案請自來水公司持續精進第7區處漏水率降低持續提升高雄供水環境委員賴瑞榮等提案"},{"start":2515.851,"end":2542.358,"text":"第44案請自來水公司於6月底前向行政院提出降低漏水率補助計劃,比照台電電價補償與公務預算協助台水公司推動下一階段降漏計劃,委員賴瑞榮等提案。第45案,台水公司辦理16項延續性固定資產建設專案計劃,為期112年逾8成計劃成修正調整,原要求台水公司於1個月內提送專案報告文陳超明等提案。"},{"start":2543.118,"end":2569.114,"text":"第46案建於臺水公司對外舉債規模逐年攀升要求於一個月內提送專案報告委員陳昌明等提案第47案臺水公司建置分區管網以妥善規劃確認作業排成並強化控管機制委員邱瑩等提案第48案臺水公司目前執行浮流水相關計畫以強化計畫執行進度制控管以立工程如期如值完成委員邱瑩等提案"},{"start":2569.929,"end":2588.648,"text":"第49案,臺水公司以加強控管各區處,改善小區管管封閉確認,請臺水公司提出書面報告委員張家俊等提案。第50案,臺水公司以審酌各地水資源發展情形,因地制以嚴謀改善措施及落實績效管理機制委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":2589.81,"end":2600.477,"text":"第51案,台水公司113年度辦理19項專案計劃以強化經費及工程進度制控管,以立各項計劃如期如值,完成委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":2601.274,"end":2620.268,"text":"第52案建於自來水公司近年營運持續虧損為提高資產運用效益因持續檢討計畫執行研議可行方案請自來水公司提出進度成效與書面報告委員張啟凱等提案第53案臺水公司已研謀多元水源開發方案並強化"},{"start":2621.707,"end":2646.819,"text":"復有水工程執行進度制礦管以提高自由水源供應量提出專案報告委員正任前等提案第54案台水公司以根據檢討精進改善漏水做法提升降低漏水率執行成效並提出專案報告委員正任前等提案第55案台水公司以積極檢討經營績效強化成本礦管機制並提出專案報告委員正任前等提案"},{"start":2648.244,"end":2671.975,"text":"56案 台水公司應加速辦理小區管網與WADA系統之介接委員蕭一鳳等提案57案 台水公司辦理老舊高地社區用戶加壓售水設備改善計畫應強化工程進度制控管以提高計畫執行成效委員蕭一鳳等提案第58案 台水公司應地執研謀開源節流措施並妥善規劃辦理小區管網確認封閉計畫委員蕭一鳳等提案"},{"start":2677.148,"end":2700.732,"text":"第59案 臺水公司規劃新營專訓中心應考慮其設施及管理能量、稳重檢討該園區之使用方式或對外開放租借利用率委員歇一鳳等提案第60案 臺水公司應精進前置作業之辦理加強彰化縣無自來水地區之調查研謀對策提高受益戶接水利委員歇一鳳等提案 宣讀完畢好"},{"start":2706.953,"end":2732.033,"text":"這個因為地震的關係這個高鐵火車都受到很大的影響所以現在高鐵有在已經在行進中了可以可以所以我們先休息先休息在高鐵的朝偉楊瓊英朝偉應該快到了我們先休息"},{"start":2969.503,"end":2969.604,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":3000.571,"end":3005.574,"text":"我們休息到10點30分我們休息到10點30分再繼續開會"},{"start":3857.663,"end":3880.553,"text":"主席臺報告因為地震的關係我們有多位的委員還卡在高鐵上包括今天的招委楊瓊英招委那擔心接下來可能還會有一些餘震或者還有一些災情傳出所以奉楊招委楊瓊英招委的指示我們今天的會議就停開那這個臺水的預算我們就擇期再審以上今天散會謝謝"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}