{"total":{"value":41,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-04-08"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"150930","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150930","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981746714e8b45d23083b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a612d65d6394dc0c085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"10:03:37 - 10:16:33","影片長度":"00:12:56","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":776,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:16:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:03:37+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":301,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時3分）主席，我們請邱主委。"],["主席：請陸委會邱主委。"],["王委員美惠：主委早"],["邱主任委員太三：早。"],["王委員美惠：主委，這幾天我覺得實在「痚呴袂忍嗽」，今天客委會業務報告有很多問題要討論，不過看到我們前總統馬英九糟蹋臺灣人，不上來跟你說一下，真的是非常地憤慨。在這個過程當中，他要去大陸、要去哪裡，那都是他的自由、他的事情，不過日期一直變、一直變，尤其在4月3日臺灣花蓮發生地震的時候，我想說日期一直變、一直變，可能他也做過我們臺灣的總統，是不是變得要趕快回來臺灣看花蓮的受害者？結果不是啦！是要聽習近平他們那些、要跟人家美國跟日本的高峰會談日期，要跟人家拼什麼啦？要拼也拼一個民主的國家，他這麼不民主，我們去配合他，這樣對嗎？像你做主委，在這幾天，身為前總統，臺灣發生這個事情，我相信無論哪一黨，4月3日看到花蓮發生這樣的事，任何人都難過。我覺得馬英九前總統他的心肝不知道是被狗吃了嗎？臺灣栽培讓他……才有辦法去四處走，不要蹧蹋臺灣蹧蹋得這麼慘啦！像你剛才說的，他要去哪裡我們都尊重，但是現在臺灣發生事情的時候，說實在的，這樣比一個左鄰右舍都還不如。","主委，我現在跟你說的，你認為怎樣？不要說你是什麼，你站在主委的角度看，馬英九這樣一改再改，改日期，只是一直想要跟習近平見面，說實在被人家吃豆腐、被……他敢說他是臺灣的總統，被人家稱呼「馬先生」，那實在很漏氣。主委，你回答一下。"],["邱主任委員太三：我剛才其實也說過，因為馬前總統他是用私人的身分去……"],["王委員美惠：當然。"],["邱主任委員太三：所以他是說要去做文化教育的交流。我們每年也有很多私人的，不管個人還是團體都有辦這些活動。"],["王委員美惠：不是，我說這幾天臺灣發生這麼重大的事情……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，當然是這樣……"],["王委員美惠：以你的角色，身為一個總統，臺灣栽培他……"],["邱主任委員太三：前總統。"],["王委員美惠：嗯。這樣子對嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：確實是這樣，尤其全世界很多國家的總理或總統，或是國會議長也好都表達關心，我相信這是大家都看得到的地方。"],["王委員美惠：我覺得不應該啦！你至少去到那裡，臺灣4月3日發生事情，嘴上說安慰我們，飛機還在飛，還在糟蹋臺灣人，馬英九是要怎麼去說和平、要怎麼說文化！自己的國家，他就沒辦法替國家說出任何事情，說實在我看到他真的會怕耶！身為一個前總統，臺灣發生這種事，也不回來，還在那裡只聽習近平說不行、不行，現在7日不行、8日不行，我們現在就要看美國跟日本何時要高峰會議，我們要跟他們車拼，笑死人啦！要車拼你不就是應該要大聲說出：我是中華民國前馬英九總統。都不敢說，沒用啦！"],["邱主任委員太三：所以我們對他有期待啦……"],["王委員美惠：對他有期待嘛？主委，你對他有期待是最好，但是不要這幾天做出來讓臺灣人很失望，期待是最好，有夢最美，有期待嘛！但是不要做出對不起臺灣的事情。","我們請基金會的董事長。"],["主席：請基金會董事長。"],["王委員美惠：董事長，早安。在這裡本席要跟你說，在臉書裡面，長久以來你們這麼做，你有沒有看過你們的網站，你們一年發行、出刊的有幾本？"],["陳董事長邦畛：委員早安。您說的是「靛花tien faˊ」季刊嗎？"],["王委員美惠：嗯。"],["陳董事長邦畛：「靛花tien faˊ」現在有13期。目前有13期「靛花tien faˊ」雜誌，每一期我們第一個目的是推廣，等於說我們一年會有4期，是季刊。"],["王委員美惠：本席跟你說這個，就是因為你們的努力不夠，一年有4期，你們發行的有3,000本，1,000本是給公家機關，2,000本供訂閱。不過我覺得效用沒有出來，因為這很不簡單，本席為什麼會跟你說到這個問題，你看它得到了文化部金鼎獎，我覺得你們的宣導不夠，因為今天如果沒錢給你們，你們沒有宣導，你自己去看你的宣導裡面你們的作法，真的差太多了。董事長，你覺得這裡面……"],["陳董事長邦畛：好，我會加強。"],["王委員美惠：你要加強。要怎麼加強？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為客家的刊物本身比較少人看，我們要推廣出去，也要拜託地方上的獨立書店共同辦理，走進社區裡面……"],["王委員美惠：不是地方，本席看到你們所做的，是有能力、不去做而已。像過年你們做短片，新禮貌運動、新休息運動裡面，將近50個人給讚，結果你看剩下的，幾個人給讚，你知道嗎？董事長，你知道嗎？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我不清楚。"],["王委員美惠：這樣枉費你當董事長！要關心嘛！"],["陳董事長邦畛：好。"],["王委員美惠：24個、45個，那實在有夠少。董事長，我覺得花錢不是這樣花的。","再來第二點，你們說要讓人申請補助，對於作家，在我看來越申請越少，是你們宣導不夠還是宣導不力，或者不知道有這些政策？"],["陳董事長邦畛：過去其實有高有低，在疫情的時候是比較少，不過像這次申請人數又增加，我們會再加強宣傳，希望大家來申請。因為一開始是開放大家自由申請，我們有辦輔導計畫，也是到現場拜託大家說如果你有這樣客家的出版品、有客家的寫作這麼好的內容，可以出版。"],["王委員美惠：董事長，本席跟你講的這兩點，請你在一個禮拜內就未來要怎麼進行給我一份報告。"],["陳董事長邦畛：好。"],["王委員美惠：請坐。","主席，拜託再給我2分鐘。"],["主席：好。"],["王委員美惠：主委，本席要跟你探討的是，上個會期我有跟你提到客庄小旅行網站的問題，你們改了，而且改得很好，可是改到最後，你知道今天在客家特色專區裡面是什麼時間嗎？我今天質詢是什麼時候？你聽不懂嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員是指今天的情況嗎？"],["王委員美惠：不是，我是說，你們有這個網站，本席今天質詢是什麼時候？今天是幾月幾號啦！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：今天是4月8號。"],["王委員美惠：4月8號嘛！你知道你們這個網站從什麼時候開始到現在都沒更新過嗎？錢給你們，可是你們都沒在做，這樣要怎麼把宣導工作做好！你知道從什麼時候開始都沒有更新嗎？來，主委，你講一下。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這個部分我請我的同事來說明，因為我們的網站很多。"],["王委員美惠：主委，我講給你聽！你回去查，到目前為止，我說的這個網站從11月到現在都沒有更新！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：更新問題我們會來加強，因為這是一個標案……"],["王委員美惠：我講給你聽啦！主委，大家都希望你們把客委會所有的事情做好，不是每次質詢的時候都說要回去查、回去看，這樣是要怎麼做得好？對不對？譬如嘉義市的桐花祭，我也感謝你們的補助，可是你們有每年去瞭解上個年度桐花祭的狀況，以便下年度提供補助時能有所改善或變更嗎？嘉義市2萬4,000客家人口不算少，文化越少越要保存，何況是語言的部分，嘉義市政府也向你們申請了4所國小要學習客語，可是說實在的，我覺得你們的報告寫得不錯，可是都沒有看到效果啦！","主委，你們自己去看一下，客委會應該要多多宣導，老人可以透過社區，年輕人則都是看網站，可是到現在都還沒更新啦！我希望你們要好好地更新，錢不是這樣花、這樣用的啦！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員指導，網站的部分因為是定期招標出去，由廠商來維護……"],["王委員美惠：主委，這樣啦！本席在這邊跟你講，今天散會之後，你去看一下我剛剛說的那個網站從什麼時候開始就沒更新。以上！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝王美惠委員的質詢。謝謝。","下一位請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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我們的臉書裡面長久以來你們這樣做你們看你們的網站你們的做你們這樣一天發生幾本發生出刊有幾本來"},{"start":351.004,"end":356.445,"text":"你講的天罰,天罰都已經發到13期了,13期,特期就開始很多了,因為天期為了推廣很多,現在差不多期有3000了,等於說一年是非常稀奇的一個季節。"},{"start":377.168,"end":382.511,"text":"董事長,為什麼要跟你說這個,因為我的跟你說這個就是說,我們的農業不夠,在1年有4期內,你們發生的有3千份,1千份是給公家機關,2千份是我們房地產的,但是我覺得豪業不夠出來,"},{"start":399.131,"end":401.471,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":428.359,"end":430.341,"text":"喔!你的家長啦!我怎麼家長?因為客家的看法本身是很受影響,你的本場是這樣的情況。你要在行事宜,你要拜託提防商跟特定事項,"},{"start":445.52,"end":447.061,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案。"},{"start":474.145,"end":478.168,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":500.183,"end":505.085,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":527.2,"end":527.52,"text":"財政委員會主任委員會主席"},{"start":546.052,"end":547.353,"text":"二、商務委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":575.728,"end":595.739,"text":"主委,在這裏面,本事要跟你探討的就是說,中央委員會,我告訴你,我們客客棧的小旅行的網站,跟你有概,概料是很好,他們說未來,你概看未來,他們說客家特色,那個專區裏面,你敢知道嗎?"},{"start":599.707,"end":605.812,"text":"今天當時,你知道嗎?那個網站,我現在跟你一寸今天當時,你知道嗎?你聽到沒有?不是,我是跟你說,你有這個網站啦,本來跟你現在一寸是當時啦,今天1月1號啦,"},{"start":627.793,"end":629.695,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":650.075,"end":658.358,"text":"主委我告訴你今天你檔案查到目前為止我告訴你這個網站在1月到現在都還沒蓋好艱辛的問題你來加強因為我告訴你你那60票我告訴你主委大家都希望你各位所有的事情做好不是說大家來你這巡邏都說檔案查檔案看這樣是要怎麼做好"},{"start":680.467,"end":684.249,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":704.652,"end":704.812,"text":"主委．"},{"start":733.715,"end":734.916,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":755.68,"end":765.57,"text":"感謝委員祈禱,明天明天要補分,因爲那天天氣有照片出現,總算是V4。主委,這樣來,本席在這裏說,到今天早上之後,在我剛才說的那天晚上,你去找找到現在目前到當時還沒換來,以上。"}]}},{"id":"150929","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150929","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e938165848398150402a3e9464ab813b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6fee44c001e264e285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:41:21 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09:50:25","影片長度":"00:09:04","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":544,"end_time":"2024-04-08T09:50:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:41:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":229,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時41分）謝謝主席，先請邱太三邱主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：蘇委員早。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委早。在主委進我們委員會之前，先在前面接受媒體採訪，真的是大陣仗，因為今天大家對你應該會非常有興趣，也想知道你的答案，因為前總統馬英九又赴中國訪問。原本聽說今天就要馬習二會，但據指稱擬改到星期三。4月10日星期三是什麼樣的日子？當天的全球大事應該是華府要舉行美日峰會。在美日峰會時，中華民國的前總統馬英九又到中國去馬習二會，這代表了什麼樣的意義？所以大家當然想知道政府的態度。主委，現在給你三十秒、一分鐘的時間。"],["邱主任委員太三：我們看到馬英九前總統是用私人身分前往中國大陸，大陸也是用「馬英九先生」來稱呼他。對於國人、他個人要到大陸去，不管是觀光旅遊或文教交流，基本上，我們當然期待他能順利平安返國。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我能理解你的意思，因為馬英九前總統也是說他以私人的身分去。但如果他今天完全是私人身分，那麼不管他去從事觀光、旅遊、教育、文化活動，我們當然都沒有意見。但今天他如果不是中華民國前總統，他有可能跟習近平見面嗎？根本就不可能啊！不然為什麼路上任何一個臺灣去中國旅遊的人，沒有辦法跟習近平見面？這不可能嘛！所以他一定是有意義的，而且會發生在這個日期，一定是有特別的狀況。我想是這樣子啦！陸委會的態度，在馬習二會真正發生之前，在確定馬前總統講出什麼話之前，可能不應該做過多的表示，只是說尊重馬前總統，不過，我們希望國人也可以睜大眼睛看清楚，現在4月的今天是一個中國海警船已經連續100天闖入釣魚臺12海里內，然後它不斷在增加對南海的動作，甚至不是只有對臺灣而已，對菲律賓這些其他它的周邊各國都在進行挑釁的動作，我們的馬前總統竟然選在這個時間，又去跟這個極權國家站在一起。","我記得2015年馬習一會、馬習會的時候，回來之後，2015年11月13號，其實國內就有一個民調出來，52.7%的國人認為馬英九未能捍衛主權、不能捍衛主權，56.2%的人認為當時的馬英九總統不能代表受訪者意見，然後大部分的人、超過4成的人認為馬總統就是傾向於統一這樣的狀況，所以我幫他下一個結論，2019的馬習會，國人不肯定。但是我看今天大家很風平浪靜，新聞大概也都只有一點點啦！但我們還是要在質詢臺上表示，2015的馬習會，大家不肯定，2024的馬習會，我們也不在乎。但我希望，如果馬前總統在馬習二會的會議上面，如果說出了什麼有損國格、妨害臺灣主權的話，陸委會一定要在第一時間出來發表聲明。"],["邱主任委員太三：我們一定會的，所以我們會持續關注後續的發展。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝主委。接下來我們請客委會楊主委，謝謝主委，主委，抱歉，我可能還是要用華語跟您做一個就教，您方便……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我全部聽得懂。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我其實大部分聽得懂，其實聽久了就也習慣了，不過，為防萬一，我看我還是戴一下好了。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我想跟您請教一下，因為時間的關係，多位委員曾經在立法院質詢的過程當中跟你請教，就是我們臺灣客委會這邊，因為人口數、因為地區的客家族群的人口數，所以它把地區、鄉鎮市別分成是不是客家重點發展區，請問是和不是，客委會在給予資源的時候有什麼差別嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，客家基本法當中明定，客家人口超過三分之一以上的鄉鎮市區是重點發展區，是加強客家語言、文化與文化產業發展的地方，但是並沒有說其他地方就不發展。"],["蘇委員巧慧：不是說其他地方就沒有嘛！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：所謂的其他地區，他們有提出相關的案件，比如說最近我去宜蘭這個地區，他們有提出關於很多詔安客變成福佬客，不會講客家話，但我們還是有補助，讓他們做傳統空間朗讀的計畫。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我完全瞭解，但我必須跟你說，因為現在客家人口跟大部分其他族群的人口一樣的狀況，也是有遷移，遷移往都市化集中的狀況，所以其實我們新北，你看我們新北的客家人口數有67萬，僅次於桃園市的90萬，是直轄市裡面第二多，可是因為我們不是群聚的狀況，所以新北市沒有任何一個鄉鎮區是重點發展區域。對大家來講，在公共建設上面還有辦理活動上面，有時候還是會有一點落差。在這裡，因為時間的關係，剛剛已經分配一些給陸委會了，所以我想直接跟主委建議。您今天這整本客委會的業務報告裡面其實我都贊成，而且對於客委會以這樣少的預算和人力能夠做出這麼多的業務深表敬佩，但我想提一個建議，就是您在這裡面做了很多鄉鎮區域的客家文化推動的努力，也對我們精緻藝術的部分做了很多的補助，但是不要忘了，其實最多在日常跟客家事務相關的，在地方，尤其像我們不是群聚區，其實就是人的群體，也就是客家社團。那麼有沒有可能你在對客家社團的補助上面，我不是只要求要更多，而是政策的方向可以下去引導。比如說您推動了非常多精緻藝術的部分，所以我們現在甚至在金曲獎，客家歌手也有很多得獎，然後在博物館、在文學等等，也有非常多傑出的表現，這些項目有沒有機會是透過地方的社團，讓他們把兩者結合，誰能夠做到，你就給他更多的補助，尤其是包括親子的、包括家庭的，讓客家人的新血可以進到地方最活躍的社團當中。所以主委，我再重申一次，我認為在散居的都市區，客家社團是重要的，它應該得到補助，但它的補助，我建議按照您的方向，可以開啟更多不同的項目，讓他們接受客委會的政策引導，讓客家文化可以再活絡起來。不然有點可惜的是，如果我們每次去客家社團的活動都是只有擂茶、麻糬、唱山歌，我覺得這種雖然我們保存了傳統文化，但我們沒有新血的引入，也沒有年輕人加入，它會變成是一個博物館文化，而不是一個活的文化。所以比如說，你可以鼓勵哪一個社團是唱了今年金曲獎得獎的客家歌曲，而且是年輕人來唱，這個就給更多的補助嘛！這只是我的一個小建議，不曉得主委你覺得這個方向可行嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這個方向我會來努力，新北市的社團有不同的型態，有的是聯誼性的同鄉會，還有藝文的團體，藝文的團隊也有，還有創作性、現代創作的也有，我們全部會來重視，這個方向我們會來加強。"],["蘇委員巧慧：因為我知道現在是概算在編列的時候，所以我才特別在這裡再跟客委會建議，我希望今年不只是補助在地的客家社團，而且可以多開這種不同類型的新興計畫，讓地方的在地客家社團也能夠感受到有新的方向、政府的支持。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這個大方向我們會繼續來努力，謝謝委員關心。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝主委，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員的質詢，下一位請黃建賓委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 5案(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(二)大陸委員會\n函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照\n案、(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書\n面報告，請查照案、(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預\n算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案","agenda_id":"1132501_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.38534375,"end":2.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.01346875,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.257843750000001,"end":6.392843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.392843750000001,"end":6.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.29971875,"end":55.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.902843750000002,"end":9.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.39784375,"end":55.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.19096875,"end":62.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.53596875,"end":79.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.99721875,"end":197.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.92409375000003,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.03096875,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.06471875000003,"end":216.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.19971875000002,"end":222.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.37596875000003,"end":224.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.02971875,"end":224.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.94096875000002,"end":224.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.20971875,"end":240.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.27721875,"end":234.18846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.19596875000002,"end":241.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.78221875000003,"end":281.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.84346875,"end":300.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.22471875,"end":301.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.03034375000004,"end":321.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.25909375000003,"end":378.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.44721875000005,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.17846875000004,"end":453.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.78284375000004,"end":501.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.78409375,"end":519.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.14971875000003,"end":512.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.14909375,"end":513.3684687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.86971875,"end":538.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.1028437500001,"end":542.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.39784375,"end":542.54534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.389,"end":2.75,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":25.037,"end":25.838,"text":"二、中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":56.238,"end":79.431,"text":"第二我想我們看到的是馬英九前總統他是用私人的身份去前往中國大陸大陸對待他也是用馬英九先生來征服他所以對於國人他個人要到大陸去做不管觀光旅遊或者是文教交流基本上我們當然就是期待他能夠順利平安返國"},{"start":81.049,"end":103.315,"text":"主委我能夠理解你的意思因為馬英九前總統也是說他是用私人的身份但是如果他今天完全是私人他要去觀光旅遊教育文化我們當然都沒有意見但今天他如果不是中華民國的前總統他有可能跟習近平見面嗎這根本就不可能的事情啊阿不然為什麼路上任何一個台灣去中國旅遊的人沒有辦法跟習近平見面"},{"start":104.315,"end":106.677,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":132.853,"end":134.315,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":148.354,"end":157.436,"text":"我們的前總統馬前總統竟然選在這個時間又去跟這個極權國家站在一起我記得2015年的時候馬習一會馬習會的時候其實回來的時候這個11月2015年11月13號其實國內就有個民調出來52.7%的國人認為馬英九未能捍衛主權不能捍衛主權"},{"start":170.439,"end":195.279,"text":"五十六點二的人認為馬英九總統當時的馬英九總統不能代表受訪者的意見然後大部分的人超過四成的人認為馬總統就是傾向於統一這樣的狀況所以我幫他下一個結論2019的馬習會國人不肯定但是今天我看今天大家很風平浪靜新聞大概也都只有一點點但我們還是要在質詢台這樣表示2015的馬習會"},{"start":197.981,"end":223.855,"text":"大家不肯定2024的馬習會我們也不在乎但我希望如果馬前總統在這個馬習二會的這個會議上面如果說出了什麼有損國格妨礙台灣主權的話立委會一定要在第一時間出來發表聲明我們一定會的啦所以我們會仔細關注後續的發展好 謝謝主委接下來我們請客委會楊主委"},{"start":233.277,"end":234.618,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":250.852,"end":253.354,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":271.849,"end":301.533,"text":"把地區鄉鎮識別分成是不是客家重點發展區請問是和不是那這客委會在給予資源的時候有什麼差別嗎?老委員報告哈卡基本法當中規定哈卡營區超過三分之一以上的鄉鎮市區的重點發展區要加強哈卡營園發展要三大但是並不說其他地方都不是發展其他地方不是說其他地方就沒有"},{"start":302.093,"end":319.751,"text":"其他提防其他提出相關案件：例如最近在宜蘭看過其他提防其他提出關於全部已經變成蘇維埃俄羅斯學、西班牙學全部不要說學家法：你含有部署本已做傳統空間籠統的計劃："},{"start":322.318,"end":347.474,"text":"主委我完全了解但我必須跟你說因為現在客家人口隨著大部分其他族群的人口一樣的狀況也是有遷移啦遷移往都市化集中的狀況所以其實我們新北喔你看我們新北的客家人口數其實有67萬僅次於桃園市的90萬是直轄市裡面第二多可是因為我們不是群聚的狀況所以呢新北市沒有任何一個鄉鎮區是重點發展區域"},{"start":349.955,"end":377.912,"text":"那對大家來講這個公共建設上面還有辦理活動上面有時候還是會有一點落差那在這裡因為時間的關係剛剛已經分配一些給陸委會了所以我想直接跟主委建議您今天的這個整本這個客委會的業務報告裡面其實我都贊成而且覺得客委會以這樣少的預算和人力能夠做出這麼多的業務深表敬佩那我想提一個建議就是"},{"start":379.249,"end":402.075,"text":"您在這裡面做了很多鄉鎮區域的客家推動、客家文化推動的努力也對我們這個精緻藝術的部分做了很多的補助但其實不要忘了啦其實最多在日常跟客家事務相關的在地方尤其像我們不是群聚區其實就是人的群體也就是客家社團"},{"start":402.975,"end":427.035,"text":"那麼有沒有可能是你在對客家社團的補助上面我不是指要求要更多而是政策的方向可以下去引導比如說您推動了非常多的精緻藝術的部分所以我們現在甚至在金曲獎、客家歌手也有很多得獎然後在博物館、在文學等等也有非常多有了傑出的表現"},{"start":427.876,"end":431.96,"text":"那這些項目有沒有機會是透過地方的社團讓他們把兩者結合誰能夠做到你就給他更多的補助嘛尤其是包括親子的包括家庭的讓客家人的心血可以進到這個地方最活躍的社團當中所以諸位我再重申一次我認為在散居的都市區客家社團是重要的"},{"start":453.9,"end":474.07,"text":"那他應該得到補助但他的補助我建議按照您的方向可以開取更多不同的項目讓他們接受客委會的政策引導讓客家文化可以再活絡起來不然有一點可惜的是說如果我們每次去客家社團的活動都是只有擂茶、麻糬、唱善歌"},{"start":475.931,"end":476.632,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":498.429,"end":500.232,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議"},{"start":513.372,"end":540.351,"text":"二、國內創造新現代創造型的業務：一﹐全部為了創始：負責方向：為了改革：因為我知道現在正是預算在編﹐概算在編列的時候啦所以我才特別在這裡在跟客委會建議我希望今年不只是補助在地的客家社團而且可以多開這種計畫不同類型的新興計畫讓地方的在地客家社團也能夠感受到有新的方向政府的支持再兩臺方向繼續努力感謝議員的關心"}]}},{"id":"150928","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150928","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981a88b3d28167592b43b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a608034d4be25775745ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"12:53:04 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13:00:20","影片長度":"00:07:16","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":436,"end_time":"2024-04-08T13:00:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:53:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1122,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時53分）謝謝主席。我是最後一個，我一定會準時。有請楊主委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請我們楊主委。"],["陳委員培瑜：主委，午安。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：你好。"],["陳委員培瑜：請容許我用華文跟您對話，因為我不會講客家話，我也不是客家鄉親。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是等一下我要談論的議題，其實跨族群、跨文化都是非常非常重要的議題，只是說有一些業務落在客委會，所以必須要跟主委您討論。","投影片沒出來，我就先繼續。","客委會長期以來都在幫忙修復非常多地方上、社區裡面非常重要的古蹟跟相關的文資，我想主委你一定非常清楚相關業務的推動。我們看到是今年還是去年，在新竹有一個張爺爺故事屋，有修復了一個古蹟，然後他們在那個修復完的古蹟裡頭有辦了跟兒童相關的營隊活動。我們要說的是我們看到這個古蹟修復，當然客委會出了非常非常多的錢，給了相關的補助跟計畫，可是我們看到後續辦的活動，他們辦了所謂的張爺爺兒童故事屋，為什麼我要提出這件事情？我從進到立法院之後一直在跟相關部會討論，我們在做很多政策規劃的時候，不是只是辦所謂的親子活動，而是有沒有把小孩在意的，或者是所謂的兒童視野放進我們的政策規劃當中？以這個題目來看，我們必須要先肯定，並且要感謝客委會在相關資源的撥補，可是我們也很好奇，其實剛剛非常多委員都有在問，不管是語言的推動、教育的推動，如同主委說的，已經花了很多的錢，也設計了很多的課程，當然我們不能強迫大家一定要來接受相關語言或者是文化教育，可是如果我們都已經花了這麼多錢，做了這麼多教育推廣，都還是沒有辦法吸引更多的年輕人，甚至是兒童、青少年主動到這些空間來，或者是主動學這些語言，那我們是不是要回頭來想，我們到底還可以多做哪些事情，讓相關的空間、相關的語言、相關的文化可以被更多年輕，不管是客家族群的後代，或者是非客家族群的後代想要靠近。","所以這個部分我其實想要請教主委，你剛剛說你有意願想要留任，我也期望你可以，我聽錯了？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我的表示不是這樣。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，對不起。但是你剛剛說你在做很多政策規劃的時候，我想要提醒有沒有機會把更多所謂兒少的視野、兒少表意權的視野放進所有的政策規劃裡面？不管是古蹟修復或是語言教育，或者是文化推廣活動。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒有錯，兒童、青少年、下一代得以學會客家話，將來客家話才有可能傳承，才有可能延續客家文化，剛才委員所說的張氏家廟修復，客委會全力支持，在修復之後，我們有要求新竹縣政府在這個地方要固定辦活動，其實我們在新埔街上做了好幾個家廟，全臺灣家廟密度最高的地方就是在新埔這個地方，所以客委會全力協助他們修復，也協助他們整合。在這當中就請他們要辦青少年活動，這是一個案例，我們希望透過這個方式。方才有委員關心客家文化發展中心，我們每一期的展覽活動都會配合兒童的體驗。"],["陳委員培瑜：主委，因為我時間有限，而且我答應委員我不可以延遲，要讓大家準時下班。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：剛剛您說的，我們在業務報告都知道，只是說我們可以更有兒童視野來看這個事情，所以就是之後您在編相關預算或是活動政策的時候，就拜託再把這個部分多加加強。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：甚至是我們是不是要有兒少委員會來聽他們的意見，聽一聽怎麼樣的活動、怎麼樣的課程設計，或是怎麼樣的政策，他們會更願意靠近客家文化。","因為我們辦公室進到立法院以後，我們跟國家人權博物館談了國家兒童人權日，我們甚至也跟中研院許願了兒童科普日，其實相關的活動都非常成功，所以，我相信這邊也想要給客委會做一個參考。","第二個我要談的是花蓮的震災，我想大家都非常清楚，為什麼要在客委會的業務報告上特別提出花蓮？花蓮應該是繼桃、竹、苗之後，全臺灣客家人口最多的第四個縣市，對嗎？客家人口占百分之三十二點多，對嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：三十二點多，排名……"],["陳委員培瑜：第四。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：抱歉，我一下記不起來。"],["陳委員培瑜：我記得資料應該是桃、竹、苗，之後第四個就是花蓮！甚至我們看到花蓮的好朋友們在臉書上說，他們當然很感謝大家的善意跟捐款，可是更多在花蓮，不管是開民宿、做觀光業的朋友、做餐飲的朋友，大家說你們不用急著捐錢給我們，你們不如坐車來我們花蓮吃小吃、來小鎮玩，讓旅宿業可以賺到錢，用在地的食材跟大家分享，讓返鄉的青年不會失望，自己還要因此而離開花蓮重回臺北，甚至沒有辦法來的就買農產品。我們知道在客委會的很多業務裡面，其實都跟類似事情有關，例如說有地方創生的客委會的補助，還有伯公照護站也是其中一個。我這邊想要提一個是有關伯公照護站，有沒有機會在震後的花蓮二十幾個伯公照護站在裡面，增加所謂身心健康的服務支持？因為我們都相信，震災之後有非常多身心健康有問題的老人家，怎麼說？雖然我自己住花蓮十幾年，但是這次大地震，連我自己都覺得很可怕，有沒有機會在伯公照護站第一線先開啟相關的服務？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員提醒，我們的確沒有想到，這些微度、輕度的創傷症候群……"],["陳委員培瑜：是。但是我們當然知道專業……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們會來做。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了，謝謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們請專家提供教材，會請所有東部的伯公照護站，甚至加上西部有哪個地方影響比較大的，我們也會……"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了，其實我剛剛也想要談西部的部分，雖然沒有像這一次的花蓮震災這麼嚴重，但是我們知道，長期以來，很多長者也有出現身心健康的問題，但是長者可能依據過去的生活經驗，他們不大願意主動開口，有沒有機會在全臺灣的伯公照護站都陸續開啟身心健康服務的初級服務？因為到了更專業，他們可能更需要找醫療資源的嫁接，這個部分請主委做相關的裁示跟政策規劃。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，跟委員報告，這個部分謝謝委員提醒了，我們的確沒想到，但一定會去做，當然我們不是專業單位，我們只能做初級的，衛生福利部有跟我們合作，將來社會福利、醫療服務、社工服務這些資源，還有相關的人員，我們都有合作推動，讓他們瞭解客家語言文化，將來在服務上面提升。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝主委肯認這件事情的重要性，我們之後會再跟客委會持續討論關於全臺灣客家「伯公照護站」的身心健康支持，謝謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員的質詢。","登記發言的委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員麥玉珍、委員徐欣瑩、委員陳冠廷所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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就是花蓮"},{"start":279.167,"end":281.108,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":300.236,"end":303.239,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":318.755,"end":338.451,"text":"有沒有機會在花蓮在正後的花蓮20幾個博工照護站裡面增加所謂身心健康的服務支持因為我們都相信正在之後有非常多身心健康的老人有問題的老人家怎麼說那個雖然我自己住花蓮十幾年但是這一次的大地震連我自己都覺得很可怕那有沒有機會在博工照護站我們第一線先開啟相關的服務"},{"start":339.972,"end":340.593,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":362.213,"end":388.359,"text":"太好了其實我剛也想要談西部的部分雖然沒有這一次可能正在像花蓮這麼嚴重但是我們知道其實長期以來看身心健康很多長者也有出現身心健康的問題但是長者可能依據過去的生活經驗他們不大願意主動開口有沒有機會在全台灣的博工照護站都陸續開啟身心健康服務的初級服務因為到了更專業他們可能更需要找醫療資源的嫁接這個部分請主委就做相關的採視跟政策動畫"},{"start":389.119,"end":391.202,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":408.702,"end":419.57,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度"}]}},{"id":"150927","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150927","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981dfd40c286e521fe75942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6762f5bddbbf20da75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"12:51:34 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這個狀況你們有什麼看法"},{"start":228.76,"end":251.77,"text":"跟委員報告因為有關那個專案教室編制外專案教室的部分他那個沒有是他也是屬於那個編制外的相關的行政人力的一種那他可能那個沒有工作滿全年的這個原因很多不光只是因為留職停薪的關係所以說學校這個部分可能會對他的考核部分是用另一種考核來處理"},{"start":253.41,"end":273.297,"text":"這邊寫了如果他的工作表現不好但是他就算工作表現OK他是假等的也會因為他育嬰留停而被要求令於考核剛才下面因為育嬰留停被令於考核而且在令於考核裡面就寫明他是不盡心的相比於其他是不盡心的"},{"start":276.476,"end":292.724,"text":"他的表現如果不好沒有辦法被加薪我們沒有什麼好說的但他表現OK考積甲等同樣都是其他考積甲等的人可以加薪但對不起因為你育嬰留停所以你不進薪這什麼道理"},{"start":295.23,"end":319.876,"text":"這個部分我們在就學校編制內跟編制外相關教育私人員的這個相關的事項在進一步做演繹在跟委員這邊做回報這樣那個教育部齁包括今天剛剛權敘部跟人總都有來喔其實我想這是很明顯的喔今天不管他是公務人員還是勞工在這個規定裡面明明白白寫了這就是歧視性的對待嘛因為你育嬰留停"},{"start":322.031,"end":344.808,"text":"所以我不管你的考機如何我不管你工作表現如何就是不能加薪這上面就是這樣寫的阿而且這不只是一間大學喔這是幾間大學都有類似的規定喔所以那個處長我說教育部人事處處長你不覺得這該休嗎如果按照剛剛部長說的這其實是一個不利對待喔"},{"start":347.794,"end":348.174,"text":"最後我要說"},{"start":367.663,"end":388.016,"text":"你今天要怎麼評價他的工作表現我沒有意見他工作表現是好是壞這是一個因素你依照他的工作表現來評估沒有問題但今天很明顯育嬰留停已經成為了他被不予盡心甚至不能升遷的因素了這就是明明白白的歧視對待啊"},{"start":390.216,"end":390.356,"text":"所以那個"},{"start":420.39,"end":443.84,"text":"教育部我可不可以請問喔可不可以在一個月內請你召集包括邀請勞動部包括全序部包括人總其實召開一個會那召開一個跨部會的意義針對這些工作者在大學裡面當年育嬰留停就被令於考核而且這令於考核裡面的重點是他就影響他的進行影響他的升遷他是明擺顯明的"},{"start":446.019,"end":454.664,"text":"這部分能不能召開一個會來討論怎麼來修改這規定至少能夠符合變成讓育嬰留停不要變成是一個歧視性的因素可以嗎可以嗎好謝謝謝謝洪生翰委員發言"}]}},{"id":"150926","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150926","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e938165848398171b0fd8b8cfc87013b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a68c182ccf94525d475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"12:41:59 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12:52:52","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":653,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:52:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:41:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":998,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（12時41分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請陸委會主委邱主委。"],["主席：請陸委會邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：主委你好，我記得你跟賴清德都當過國大代表。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，我們都是第3屆。"],["賴委員士葆：我也是第3屆。"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你關係不錯，你跟賴清德關係不錯？"],["邱主任委員太三：應該是說人際還好啦！"],["賴委員士葆：人際還好，所以520之後還可以看到你？是不是？"],["邱主任委員太三：應該是不會啦！應該是不會啦！"],["賴委員士葆：真的假的？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為我從學校借調出來已經10年了。"],["賴委員士葆：10年回不去了？"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有，我們私立學校跟公立學校不一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：私立學校可以？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為我上個月才接到……"],["賴委員士葆：我借調2次就回不去了。"],["邱主任委員太三：我上個月還收到專任的聘書。"],["賴委員士葆：我是借調2次，一次3年、一次4年。"],["邱主任委員太三：我2月的時候還接到學校給我的專任聘書。"],["賴委員士葆：希望520之後還能看到你。其實以前你當陸委會主委，大家對你是有期待的，你個性比較溫和，比較不會喊打喊殺，結果做到現在沒看到什麼成績，兩岸還是緊張，在你任內、邱太三大主委任內，兩岸是越來越緊張，變成這樣，你對於兩岸緊張的緩和沒有貢獻，有貢獻嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想蔡總統所定調的維持現狀，基本上我想應該是達到這樣的一個目標，也因為在這樣的一個目標底下，我想各位、大家可以看到，國際社會對臺灣的關注、關心更加緊密。第二個，對岸大概不滿意，但是它也要忍受，為什麼？因為是它自己把很多東西弄得更緊張，譬如說它軍事的擴張，不是只有我們緊張，包括周邊都緊張。"],["賴委員士葆：我的時間有限，我想要跟你談的，前面、剛才是開始鋪陳，現在才進入真正想問你的問題，依你們的掌握，是不是確定會有馬習二會？確不確定？"],["邱主任委員太三：我覺得我倒是想從委員那邊獲得一些訊息。"],["賴委員士葆：我哪知道？我又沒去大陸，我哪知道？你是情報單位、國安單位的……"],["邱主任委員太三：情報單位是國安局啦！"],["賴委員士葆：你們是國安單位的……"],["邱主任委員太三：我們是政策跟資訊蒐集。"],["賴委員士葆：你們也是國安單位的一部分，不是嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然有很多的跡象啦！很多的跡象應該是朝這樣的一個方向在處理，譬如說我們現在講，所有記者都要快篩檢測2次，這個一定是要見大人物才需要2次……"],["賴委員士葆：所以我可以這樣講嘛，「邱太三：馬習二會機率很高」，這樣可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有，我們還是持續在關注各項訊息啦！我們還是持續蒐集……"],["賴委員士葆：你剛剛講的，我給你summary就是這個意思啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：不是啦，當然不是只有這些啦！"],["賴委員士葆：就是邱太三這樣講……"],["邱主任委員太三：我們會蒐集很多相關資訊……"],["賴委員士葆：大家都這樣講，這個不稀奇，大家都這樣講啦！"],["邱主任委員太三：對、對、對。"],["賴委員士葆：我希望你今天來這裡能夠知無不言，言無不盡。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，你跟馬前總統這麼好，你直接問他就比較快啦！不然問馬辦蕭旭岑執行長，他一定會告訴你。"],["賴委員士葆：我當然問你啊！因為你有「機關藏佇倉庫」。"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有、沒有、沒有，他們是當事人會比較瞭解。"],["賴委員士葆：你以前在這裡就講了，你跟大陸有密使啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：我哪裡有講！"],["賴委員士葆：你說你有溝通的管道，私底下溝通管道就是密使啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：不是，那個管道是過去30年來政府兩邊的相關單位……"],["賴委員士葆：那個就是密使，不是嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有、沒有、沒有，那跟密使不一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：私底下的溝通管道……"],["邱主任委員太三：密使跟管道不一樣啦！"],["賴委員士葆：密使跟管道不一樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["賴委員士葆：在我看起來是一樣，公開出來就是管道，沒有公開出來就是密使。"],["邱主任委員太三：通常密使就不會曝光的才叫做密使。"],["賴委員士葆：是啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：但是管道它基本上是建制在的，我們一定可以跟委員報告……"],["賴委員士葆：因為當初你要接陸委會主委，很多人的看法就是，你私底下的管道，外面不知道的很多啊！要不然為什麼找你？對不對？就是這樣啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，你的期待太高了啦！"],["賴委員士葆：期待太高？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["賴委員士葆：你認為馬習二會會成了之後，對臺海的和平有沒有幫助？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想我沒有辦法知道他們具體到底要談哪些事情。"],["賴委員士葆：後天就知道了……"],["邱主任委員太三：對、對、對，所以我想等他們出來……"],["賴委員士葆：後天就知道了，對喔！各位聽好了！我說後天就知道了，他說對喔！"],["邱主任委員太三：這是我們委員的看法。我想做文化跟教育的交流，基本上是讓雙方更進一步的理解，我想這個是對特別是新的世代是一個好的方向，至於其他的部分，我們不知道他們具體的內容到底要談什麼啦！"],["賴委員士葆：對啦！但是對於馬前總統去大陸這一行我們看到的，其實執政黨就是立委罵、罵、罵、罵、罵，但是我們政府單位看起來是很克制的，基本上，最少你今天到目前為止也沒有去罵馬英九，對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為任何國人要去大陸做文化、教育的交流，我們當然都是樂觀其成啊！"],["賴委員士葆：那你跟你們的立委說一下，為什麼要罵成這樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：問題是每一個人是不同的角度嘛！大家認為馬總統他可能會不會涉及到被統戰或者是……"],["賴委員士葆：被統戰？對自己都沒有信心，我們去統戰他們啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：這是每一個人不同的角度。"],["賴委員士葆：我們去統戰他們啦！為什麼怕被統戰呢？為什麼我們不去統戰他們呢？"],["邱主任委員太三：我覺得馬總統就是應該第一個就是告訴陸方，沒事來騷擾我們幹什麼，對不對？沒事來介選……"],["賴委員士葆：然後呢？再來，還有沒有？"],["邱主任委員太三：所以我是說……"],["賴委員士葆：你等於隔空傳話給馬總統……"],["邱主任委員太三：不是，馬總統應該告訴……"],["賴委員士葆：還有第二點……"],["邱主任委員太三：如果有機會的話，他應該告訴對岸說，他們那些所謂的軟硬的措施、介選的措施，臺灣人民是非常痛恨的。"],["賴委員士葆：好，還有第三點。"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有啦！我想主要是告訴他們說，他們的作法其實是適得其反的。"],["賴委員士葆：那你今天來也沒什麼新的東西，我以為你這裡，你是陸委會主委，一定有很多東西可以告訴我們。"],["邱主任委員太三：我剛才已經講過了，你直接問蕭旭岑可能瞭解的更多。"],["賴委員士葆：我要問邱太三啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：那我只能說，10號以後我們再看有沒有發生。"],["賴委員士葆：我們看到外界這次的評價其實是，如果有馬習二會，假如現在大家都這樣子的，像你剛剛講的又做PCR等等一堆，萬一沒有的話，沒有馬習二會，對大陸是扣分的喔！你同意這句話嗎？你同意這句statement？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想北京應該有聽到你……"],["賴委員士葆：當然有聽到啊！我講給他聽的。"],["邱主任委員太三：對、對、對，有聽到你的說法了。"],["賴委員士葆：他沒有見的話，對他是扣分的，他見了馬英九不見得加分，但是沒有見就是扣分，因為前面那個序曲弄太多了，「風飛沙」弄半天，結果都沒有，我認為是有，而且你可以看到，這次是個文化之旅、祭祖之旅、歷史交流之旅，其實就是一個和平之旅，你同意嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為臺灣是一個多元的社會，對於各種不管是文化、歷史或者是其他的交流，每一個人都可以有自己的想像、期待跟想要去做推動的啦！基本上我們是尊重。"],["賴委員士葆：因為馬英九不一樣啦！他畢竟當過我們中華民國的總統，以前總統的高度，跟現任的……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，所以他要展現出來維護中華民國的主權跟尊嚴。"],["賴委員士葆：維護什麼？"],["邱主任委員太三：中華民國的主權跟……"],["賴委員士葆：當然是，你講的是對的。"],["邱主任委員太三：對、對、對，但是到現在為止好像還沒有看到。"],["賴委員士葆：你不要像其他立委講的什麼維持臺灣國的主權，那個不對啦！維持中華民國的主權是對的！"],["邱主任委員太三：跟尊嚴。"],["賴委員士葆：但是他去年就做啦，你們說他不敢去，他在大陸就……"],["邱主任委員太三：但是到現在為止好像還沒有看到一些應該要有的表現。"],["賴委員士葆：去年都講了中華民國講了N次，講了112年，落款也都這樣寫，去年做過了。"],["邱主任委員太三：但是少了一個民國啦！"],["賴委員士葆：已經有民了，你沒有認真讀書，他那個民，他在臺灣的簽字都是寫民，比如說110年，就叫民110，沒有中華民國，就是民110。"],["邱主任委員太三：那如果寫中華民國不是更好？我想全臺灣2,300萬人一定跟他鼓掌。"],["賴委員士葆：來，來，讓我把這個話講完，不要緊張，你不要緊張、你不要緊張，我馬上結束。我就是要跟你強調一點，他今天沒有回答我的話啊，他都是在這裡「黑龍繞桌」。最後一點，請問，蔡英文總統講的維持現狀，賴清德會繼續嗎？就是用中華民國憲法以及兩岸人民關係條例來處理兩岸關係，我就這一句話，等你講完我就下去。"],["邱主任委員太三：報告委員，我剛剛不是已經講了嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：你沒有講！"],["邱主任委員太三：我已經做了10年了，我2月份才接到亞大的專任聘書。"],["賴委員士葆：不是，你贊成用中華民國憲法plus兩岸人民關係條例處理兩岸關係最safe，而且對中華民國最好，同意吧？"],["邱主任委員太三：到目前為止，他們並沒有跟我們做交接的徵詢或是什麼等等，所以我想等他們問的時候，我們再來回答，好不好？"],["賴委員士葆：你還是不回答就對了！"],["邱主任委員太三：我怎麼可以越俎代庖？下一個總統的作法……"],["賴委員士葆：不是，我是說以你現在啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：我剛剛已經講過了……"],["賴委員士葆：你期待可以吧？"],["邱主任委員太三：就是2016年520到現在，蔡英文總統維持現狀這樣一個基調……"],["賴委員士葆：不是，你可不可以期待下一任的主委……"],["邱主任委員太三：已經獲得國際上和臺灣民眾非常高度的肯定跟支持，將近80%……"],["賴委員士葆：你要不要期待下一任的主委也是維持這樣子？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想能夠維持穩定現狀，不只是我們，我想國際社會也都是這樣來期待的。"],["主席：好，謝謝我們賴士葆委員質詢。謝謝。","下一位陳培瑜委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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謝謝我們再次把委員出席好 謝謝陳培宜嗎"}]}},{"id":"150925","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150925","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981dbe9c6e72bdb4e965942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a643052525fe23673a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"12:38:24 - 12:51:31","影片長度":"00:13:07","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":787,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:51:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:38:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1151,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（12時38分）好，謝謝主席，慎重歡迎部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：劉委員好。"],["劉委員建國：好，部長，你一樣也會留在我心中。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：我們要試辦彈性的育嬰留職停薪，就是要在5月1日來試辦到12月底。"],["許部長銘春：施行期間可能會延後，因為有相關的配套等等，我們認為需要再徵詢大家的意見，所以大概會延後一些。"],["劉委員建國：為什麼要延後一些？現在到12月底才只剩下8個月。"],["許部長銘春：因為意見的蒐集需要一些時間，委員有很多的指教，我也認為有道理。"],["劉委員建國：是因為今天質詢之後？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，在上一次我們公布那個原則以後，很多委員認為應該要讓整個原則更有誘因，然後讓大家更好使用，願意自動性的來幫忙。"],["劉委員建國：所以你們要延到什麼時候？原本是5月1日，沒有錯嘛！對不對？"],["許部長銘春：我想可能會延後1個月。"],["劉委員建國：就是可能6月1日，如果到12月底就剩下7個月，應該這麼說嘛！"],["許部長銘春：因為試辦期間也不要太長啦！我們其實就是看……"],["劉委員建國：所以你們公文是在3月15日就發給各公私單位，來邀請嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，我們是調查意願。"],["劉委員建國：歡迎大家來參加，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，歡迎大家。"],["劉委員建國：報名截止日是4月1號，有改嗎？你要延後，有再改嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個陸陸續續還會再收，我們到4月1號收到的是63家，可能後續還會陸續收到。"],["劉委員建國：不是，你們原本截止日就是4月1號嗎？有沒有再延後截止日？如果沒有延後就是63家。你要延後到什麼時候？你們現在延後試辦計畫，截止日要不要延後？"],["許部長銘春：可以，這沒有問題。"],["劉委員建國：要延到什麼時候？"],["許部長銘春：我們大概就是到這個月底吧？本來是4月1號，我們就延到4月底。"],["劉委員建國：所以馬上決定了？"],["許部長銘春：對。原則就是業務單位如果作業可以，我們就……"],["劉委員建國：不是，因為如果照原有的4月1號報名截止日是63家，我覺得這樣你會採取的……"],["許部長銘春：收到的，可能還有，因為可能有些郵件會比較慢一點。"],["劉委員建國：有也應該不多了，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：試辦本來就是小規模看看，先務實地瞭解……"],["劉委員建國：試辦為什麼一定要小規模？如果你的誘因足夠，就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多「歡迎」，對不對？你們這麼歡迎，大家都踴躍參加……"],["許部長銘春：當然越多越好。"],["劉委員建國：你要採取的資料（data）就更多，就更精準。"],["許部長銘春：對，沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：應該會超過63家以上，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：應該是。"],["劉委員建國：目前掌握到63家是公部門居多，還是……"],["許部長銘春：私部門。"],["劉委員建國：私部門居多？"],["許部長銘春：私部門五十幾家。"],["劉委員建國：我是說你們掌握的比例，是公部門居多，還是私部門居多？"],["許部長銘春：私部門多。"],["劉委員建國：私部門多過於公部門，是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["劉委員建國：不錯，這樣政策形成之前的試辦計畫就會產生效果，如果是公部門大過於私部門，我覺得就有很大的討論空間；如果是私部門大過於公部門，你幹嘛再延後？那就奇怪了，誰跟你們說要延後？"],["許部長銘春：之前有委員建議，我們再增加誘因或許會讓更多人有意願，我想這個也有道理，所以我們4月2號才召集……"],["劉委員建國：你們這個很奇怪，我們也是委員，但有時候建議，你們不一定會聽。你們都聽哪幾個委員的？我們瞭解一下。"],["許部長銘春：沒有，您建議的我也都會聽。"],["劉委員建國：哪有？"],["許部長銘春：有道理的我們都會參考。"],["劉委員建國：也不一定。"],["許部長銘春：但是因為有些委員……"],["劉委員建國：有時候洪申翰委員的建議，你們就不一定聽。"],["許部長銘春：不是，有些委員的確擔心我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做，所以故意弄一個不是很完整的原則，我想不要引起大家的疑慮，所以委員的建議，包括誘因，包括……"],["劉委員建國：我剛剛就問出一個重點，如果到截止日是私部門大過於公部門，而且比例還高過很多，基本上就是私部門也可以認同，而不是因為你們要推，公部門就必須很勉強地配合你們，所以你們在報告裡面都要用「歡迎」的字眼，然後有很多的但書，我還擔心你們會產生「但但」的哀愁，太多但書，你自己去看你們相關的一些準則跟辦法。你看你們規定應包括下列事項，第二開始寫「但……」，第三後面就「但……」，第四後面又「但……」，第五又是「但……」，怎麼這麼多「但」？這個原則有這麼多的但書，已經不叫原則了吧，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：主要是我們……"],["劉委員建國：我無意挑戰這個人的寫法，不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪。"],["許部長銘春：我們1月有召集相關的工商團體開會，他們都認為試辦OK，但是認為不要一開始有太多限制，所以讓他們有多一點空間……"],["劉委員建國：對，所以才會多出這麼多的但書。現在有很多委員問，怎麼是在5日前？5日前每個家長都必須會通靈，才知道4月3號的5日前會發生大地震，對不對？每個家長都必須瞭解什麼時候可能會有腸病毒集體感染，所以都要在5日前就要通靈了，不可能嘛！所以你們才會歡迎，低於5日的也可以提出，然後幾個小時的也可以提出，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["劉委員建國：對啊！"],["許部長銘春：因為這是自願性，所以儘量讓空間大一點，我們就是訂定一個原則，但不是那麼強制，因此但書會比較多，看起來就如同委員講的，怎麼會有那麼多但書，其實用意就是讓大家儘量能夠有更多的彈性，更多……"],["劉委員建國：勞動部要辦這個試辦計畫，最主要還是要反映真實的狀態，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["劉委員建國：我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久，是不是對勞工真的是一大福音。如果只是豁免保費、人力媒合、優先服務等等，就像剛才部長講的，很多委員就提出，若沒有更好的誘因，它為什麼會優於勞動部現在訂出的這些相關規範？它就不需要嘛！如果是這樣，當然你就沒有辦法呈現真實的狀態，你的政策要推，我們就不曉得推的到底是不是可長可久。這是其一。既然你們有延後，我尊重勞動部，也請部長重新檢視這個方案，讓它更臻完備、完善，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。第二件事情是，法律的規定還是最低標準，你看很多公司行號要達到這個標準也不是這麼簡單，所以我也覺得很奇怪，為什麼你們都會用「歡迎」？譬如勞動部歡迎雇主提出優於你們的方針。你看0403地震上班族遲到，他見公司的群組傻眼，「須請假、全勤減半」，最右邊是LINE的對話。"],["許部長銘春：這個違反……"],["劉委員建國：對，違反了，好，再看下一則。勞動部在4月3號早上9點就發這個新聞稿，很棒，可是你看4月3號11點52分，這又是另外一個群組，裡面提到「今天遲到同仁要請假一小時，全勤減半」。你再看這是另外一個群組，「沒辦法，這就是規定，我也遲到了，甚至全勤不會扣半，是全扣，但也是沒辦法」。下面又有另外一個群組，「這不是很正常嗎？餐飲遇到颱風天也是要自己想辦法上班，遲到了也是要扣薪，正常行業這樣就唉唉叫，當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時，有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題？」這是另外一個群組。部長怎麼看這個事情？"],["許部長銘春：有兩個問題，尤其是剛剛群組的LINE，有可能是在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前，他們就先傳了，但是後來我們說明之後，他們應該要遵守法律的規範。第二個，當然有些可能不瞭解，我們針對這些雇主端的法令宣導要更加強，讓他們瞭解。另外，如果真的權益有受損，他們沒有改變的話，可以來申訴，各地方政府都會處理，如果還是這樣就會懲罰。"],["劉委員建國：部長都沒有詳讀我的資料，你們是9點公布的，這個群組是11點52分。"],["許部長銘春：我們公布沒錯，他有沒有看到也是一個問題，如果是11點52分，就是我們公布以後，但是……"],["劉委員建國：不一定是勞工看到，最起碼雇主也要看到，所以雇主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹，然後你們連一個通報專線都沒有，只知道這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫李先生，他留手機。如果在這麼多則的情況之下，這個李先生要在這個單位待很久，我相信也有困難，他會很辛苦，壓力會很大，他會申請彈性的育嬰津貼。","新聞稿出來了，卻連通報的專線都沒有，上面還寫主管的名字叫黃司長，黃司長後面要再括號註明你的行動電話，才可以分擔李仁龍先生這樣的壓力吧？因為我的辦公室找了這3則，可能別的委員辦公室，比如洪委員的辦公室應該也有，對不對？我們就要打電話給司長、打電話給李先生，反映這個事情。怎麼雇主到現在還不曉得這件事情？怎麼雇主還敢幹這種事情？怎麼讓勞工在發生這麼大地震的時候，舉國都難過的過程裡面，全勤還要被扣東扣西，還會遇到這種事情？難道你們這個還是優於雇主，最終優於法規的心態？歡迎？"],["許部長銘春：沒有、不會，如果他們還是執意這樣做，勞工一定可以申訴，不管打1955或者地方政府、勞工局也都會有專線處理。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你有聽到，我把這些資料提供給你，對不對？是不是能有更強硬的新聞稿，然後把1955都留上去，這樣司長跟那個李先生才會可長可久。"],["許部長銘春：好。我交代同仁以後像這些都要把1955專線寫在上面，讓勞工都能夠瞭解。"],["劉委員建國：最後一件事情，這個也滿重要的，這個大地震也震出很多工安問題，我相信媒體幾乎每天都在報，奇怪！沒地震也掉，地震掉更多，沒地震掉得更少嗎？那倒也未必啊！勞動部要不要趕快跟國土署、地方政府看看怎麼去做這些事情的因應？不然，高空的吊臂經常在掉，我覺得太恐怖了吧！你看去年的5月10號臺中捷運已經造成1死10傷，同年的11月28號在新北的林口也發生了吊臂斷裂意外，砸到了公車亭，還好剛好沒有人，對不對？署長要講，給你講。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員的提醒，去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係，這次地震全國有7個塔吊確實有一些狀況，我們立即要求停工，他們後面要拆除、要調整，當然依照安全標準來做處置。這個災害發生之後，我們請各地方職安機構特別提醒有塔吊的要先做自動檢查，OK才可以繼續做，後面就全面展開了，謝謝委員提醒。"],["劉委員建國：我想不是只有單純地震這個原因，對不對？因為從去年開始，其實有些可能沒有這麼嚴重，也不一定見報，所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強，因為現在的建築案件坦白講比往年都成長非常多，所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員。","接下來請洪申翰委員發言。洪委員申翰：（12時51分）請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們今天又再次討論育嬰留停的問題，其實大家對這件事非常非常關注的原因是，因為大家都知道很多勞工朋友面對懷孕、產假或育嬰這件事情，幾乎是他人生必經的一個過程，如果要育嬰的人沒有辦法選擇育嬰留停，很有可能他就變成要離職，這可能造成就業上的不穩定。在今年年初的時候，我揭露了一個由衛福部的經費聘用但在民間團體服務的社工人員，因為育嬰留停的關係，整筆年終獎金都消失，這部分我在今年1月的時候有揭露，部長對這個事件有什麼看法？"],["許部長銘春：我想不能因為育嬰留停而對勞工有不利的對待，這是基本原則。"],["洪委員申翰：是，部長說得很好。當然這一個事件後來衛福部也做出作法上面的調整，我覺得剛剛部長講到了一個重點，就是不能因為育嬰留停而對勞工有不利的對待或差別的對待。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["洪委員申翰：接下來我要談的事情是關於公立大學裡面的問題，所以我想請教育部人事處、人總考用處跟銓敘部銓審司的人員上臺。處長跟司長，我想跟你們說，這段時間有越來越多公立大學裡面的社工師來跟我陳情，他們講到大學裡面也有因為育嬰留停的不公平制度。我想先請三位處長跟司長來看一下這張圖，這是一位校園內的專案社工師，這個專案社工師是拿教育部經費的專任專業輔導人員，他因為請了育嬰留停，復職後雖然他的在職表現仍是拿甲等，但是因為請了育嬰留停，所以連兩年無法加薪，因為他被另予考核。就是在我們的規定裡面，只要你育嬰留停就會被打為另予考核。就算你考績是甲等、乙等、丙等，但是對不起！你還是不能晉薪。這個規定不只是單一間大學有，我們查了好幾間學校，有好幾間國立大學的契僱人員工作考核實施要點裡面都是這個狀況。我想先請許部長，部長，你覺得如果職場裡面有人因為請了育嬰留停，他就特別被標註，這是明文寫的，就不晉薪，不能加薪，你覺得這是不是一個不利的對待或者歧視性的對待？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我要問教育部，這個狀況你們什麼看法？"],["王處長崇斌：跟委員報告，有關編制外專案教師的部分沒有……"],["洪委員申翰：是社工師哦！"],["王處長崇斌：是，他也是屬於編制外相關行政人力的一種，他沒有工作滿全年的原因很多，不光只是因為留職停薪的關係，所以學校可能會對他的考核用另予考核來處理。"],["洪委員申翰：不對！這邊寫了，如果他的工作表現不好，但是他就算工作表現OK，他是甲等的，也會因為他育嬰留停而被要求另予考核，而且這個另予考核就寫明他是不晉薪的，相比於其他是不晉薪的。他的表現如果不好，沒有辦法被加薪，我們沒有什麼好說的，但他表現OK，考績甲等，其他同樣都是考績甲等的人可以加薪，但對不起！因為你育嬰留停，所以你不能晉薪，這什麼道理？"],["王處長崇斌：這個部分我們再就學校編制內跟編制外相關教育人員的相關事項，進一步做研議，再跟委員這邊回報。"],["洪委員申翰：教育部，包括銓敘部、人總今天都有來，其實我想這是很明顯的，今天不管他是公務人員還是勞工，在這個規定裡面明明白白寫了，這就是歧視性的對待嘛！因為你育嬰留停，所以我不管你的考績如何、我不管你工作表現如何，就是不能加薪，這上面就是這樣寫的，而且這不只是一間大學，而是幾間大學都有類似的規定喔！所以教育部人事處處長，你不覺得這該修嗎？按照剛才部長說的，這其實是一個不利對待喔！"],["王處長崇斌：這個原則上如果是有全年的考績的話，他的考核結果是可以拿來當作晉級的依據，如果是另予考核的話，因為他本身沒有全年工作的情形，所以或許有部分的學校會另外做處理。這個部分我們再做通盤的評估，再做適當的處理。"],["洪委員申翰：教育部，我要說你今天要怎麼評價他的工作表現，我沒有意見，他工作表現是好是壞，這是一個因素，你依照他的工作表現來評估沒有問題，但今天很明顯，育嬰留停已經成為他被不予晉薪甚至不能升遷的因素了，這就是明明白白的歧視對待啊！教育部，我覺得你們應該大膽一點，我也會再找你們部長，你們應該大膽一點，這事情該改就改，就應該通令下去跟各個學校說，不能用這樣的作法嘛！今天不管是公務人員，還是像社工師的勞工，都不應該有這樣的作法嘛！如果有這個作法，我們怎麼跟大家說我們是鼓勵大家育嬰留停的？我們鼓勵大家兼顧育嬰跟工作，我們要怎麼去跟人家講這個事情？所以教育部，請問可不可以在一個月內，請你召集包括邀請勞動部、銓敘部、人總開一個會，針對這些工作者在大學裡面當年度育嬰留停就被另予考核，而且這另予考核的重點是會影響他的晉薪和升遷，是明文規定的，這部分能不能召開一個會來討論怎麼來修改這規定，至少不要讓育嬰留停變成是一個歧視性的因素，可以嗎？"],["王處長崇斌：是，委員，我們會配合辦理。"],["洪委員申翰：一個月可以嗎？好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪申翰委員發言。","本日會議詢答全部結束，委員廖偉翔、楊曜、黃仁、黃珊珊、陳菁徽、蘇清泉、陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員廖偉翔書面質詢：","案由：本院廖委員偉翔，藉本院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議向勞動部提出書面質詢。","說明：","一、有鑑於勞動部刻正與地方主管機關聯手辦理有「強化輔導雇主設置哺（集）乳室」、「擴大補助雇主設置哺（集）乳室」及「協助雇主規劃辦理托兒設施」等施政事項，然而探究其執行之經費來源，乃來自在本年度便將截止支出之「我國少子女化對策計畫（107年─113年）」專案。","二、爰此，特要求勞動部說明，來年自114年度開始，上開事項會否將因此發生經費斷炊之情形？抑或勞動部將規劃自所屬之施政事項，用以公務預算或基金預算獨立執行？請最速釋疑。"],["委員楊曜書面質詢：","一、請勞動部研議中小企業彈性育嬰假之可行方案為何？","問題：經濟部發布《2023年中小企業白皮書》中資料顯示，2022年臺灣中小企業家數超過163萬家，占全體企業達98%以上，就業人數為913萬2千人，占全國就業人數維持8成，顯示我國就業仍以中小企業為主，但中小企業工作人力較無彈性，但新手父母親確實也有請彈性育嬰假之必要，為避免勞資關係緊張，請勞動部研議合適中小企業之彈性育嬰假方案，以利營造友善職場育嬰環境。","二、公務人員請假規則研擬新增照顧未滿六歲子女之「幼兒照顧假」，勞動部對於性別平等工作法新增幼兒照顧假看法為何？","問題：銓敘部今年二月公告公務人員請假規則修正草案，研擬於公務人員請假規則新增「幼兒照顧假」，針對育有未滿6歲子女的公務員，得請7日幼兒照顧假，每增加1名子女，每年另增給3日，政府機關內所僱人員，除公務人員及準用公務人員法規之聘僱人員外，尚有適用勞基法之人員（如約用人員），若同一機關內有所差別待遇，勢必有相對剝奪感，雖然目前《性別平等工作法》內有明訂「家庭照顧假」，概念似幼兒照顧假，但本質上仍不同，為此，勞動部對於性別平等工作法新增幼兒照顧假看法為何？","三、學者表示，要改善少子化問題，除政策補助外，應同時改善女性職場環境，勞動部如何精進現行政策？","問題：學者指出，台灣經濟奇蹟的背後，是勞工付出高工時的血汗換來的，員工在生子育兒、經營家庭的重要階段，卻必須投入大半時間在職場，在被嚴重壓榨下，不少女性為了育兒必須離職，導致女性勞動力流失，這是對勞動力殺雞取卵，又婦女新知基金會曾統計，台灣有3歲幼兒以下婦女就業率，30年來提升了40%，且已達七、八成，職業婦女比率已高於全職媽媽，但生育率反而更低了。劉毓秀說，這代表媽媽為了保有工作，不願再生下一胎，很多女性看到支持媽媽的就業措施不足，充滿育兒與職場歧視，更不會考慮生小孩了，檢視勞動部現行諸多政策，有做，卻達不到政策目標，為此，勞動部如何持續改善女性職場環境，並持續精進職場上友善生育的配套措施，讓雇主願意配合政策的推動？","四、請勞動部研議提高育嬰假之薪資替代率的可行性。","問題：有民間團體表示，歐美國家推動育嬰照顧假改革，鼓勵男性請假，甚至將請假比率當成政策KPI，研究發現，薪資替代率提高，可讓爸爸更願意請假；台灣推出男性育嬰假以來，將六成薪提升到八成薪，爸爸申請育嬰照顧假比率雖有提升，但，在少子化已成國安危機的緊急狀態下，八成的薪資替代率顯然還不夠；以瑞典為例，國家在育嬰假期間提供八成薪，公會跟雇主協商再補足二成，達到替代率百分百，讓爸爸請育嬰假期間的收入不受影響。不過到了台灣，不管公務員或勞工，都普遍有高薪低報現象，公教人員是用本俸計算，可能只有兩、三萬元，勞工也有用底薪計算的類似狀況，薪資替代率不夠高，爸爸請假意願就難提升，為此，請勞動部研議提高育嬰假之薪資替代率的可行性。"],["委員黃仁書面質詢：","議題：","安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例","案由：日前有民間團體倡議推動育嬰假要彈性化，開放讓育嬰假以日、小時為單位請領，而現在勞動部針對民間團體所提出的需求，預計從今年5月至12月起開放企業申請試辦，盼自願參加的雇主提供5到7天為請假單位的彈性育嬰假。若試辦單位願意訂定以「單日」為單位的方案也歡迎，盼藉此提高男性育嬰留停比例。","行政院指出，為建構友善家庭職場、鼓勵男性共同分擔家務，2021年7月起，行政院推動育嬰留職停薪津貼從六成提升至八成、放寬彈性申請，帶動男性申請育嬰留停的比例與人數。2021年男性申請育嬰留停比例，與2020年相比增加1.5個百分點，為19.7%；2022年男性申請育嬰留停比例，則再提升5.5個百分點，比例達25.2%，意味著每四名育嬰留停的人裡，就有一名男性。","以人數來看，2022年育嬰留職停薪津貼初次核付件數約9.9萬件中，有超過2.5萬件為男性申請，人數也是有史以來最高。不過女性申請7.4萬件、占比74.8%，比例仍高於男性。","★問題1：","請問部長，依照你的認知，一般來說，當家中有育兒需求，都是由男方還是女方，誰來請假照顧孩子？","根據婦女團體的觀察，2022年中疫情升溫、不少幼托機構停班停課，以及2021年育嬰留職停薪規定放寬、津貼提高（薪資替代率上升），都可能是促使爸爸請假育兒的關鍵。當薪資替代率提高、職場更平等且友善家庭，爸爸才可能更「敢請假」，部長，你認為呢？","因為如果薪資替代率低，男性所得、升遷機會普遍又較高於女性，家庭可能出於整體收入、未來升遷機會等考量，社會上大部分還是會由女性請育嬰假。","★問題2：","請問部長，政府政策的大方向，如果想讓台灣家務分工更平等、父母都能放心請假育兒，應該怎麼進行，才有可能達成？","根據婦女團體的研究指出，除了職場、社會文化需要改變，政策上，應以「實質薪資」計算育嬰留停的八成薪水津貼，而非現行以投保薪資計算；此外，國外研究發現，更彈性、可以小時或天數來計算的彈性育嬰假，能夠提高男性請假育兒的意願，也是台灣可以參考的作法。","所以為了鼓勵民間企業，部長，是否認為由國營企業或財團法人機構先行示範？部長是否願意會同經濟部或財政部、交通部等能夠居中協調由台電、中油、台糖、台水、臺灣菸酒和中華郵政、中華電信等國營企業，來率先行試辦？"],["委員黃珊珊書面質詢：","休假看的到用不到，勞動部要當送子鳥而不是鴕鳥","一、家長在生育相關的請假上，從孩子出生後便會依序面臨三大挑戰，能否妥善應對這些挑戰，將強烈影響生養子女的意願：","(一)小孩滿6個月前，大多家庭會選擇由親人親自照顧，而小家庭則必需考量照顧者是否能於此期間辦理留職停薪，否則即只能選擇離職。考量到婦女不想要有小孩的原因之首，即為「經濟負擔太重」，\n則能否避免離職造成收入損失、順利辦理保有8成收入的留職停薪，即為影響生養意願之重點。","(二)小孩滿6個月至滿2歲前，由於留職停薪之津貼僅6個月，且小孩已渡過最為脆弱亟需照顧的階段，辦理留職停薪之親職照顧者多會選擇回歸職場，尋求托嬰服務接手照顧工作。而據研究指出，需將送托每名兒童的托育費用控制於家戶可支配所得15%以下，才能增加家長生養第2名子女之意願，進而達到促進生育率之政策效果。\n因此，家長是否預期能夠順利取得平價之（準）公托服務，將會是影響生養意願之重點。","(三)小孩滿2歲後，主要的請假需求則來自於較為臨時之疾病等家庭照顧需求，以及參與小孩就讀學校活動等家庭陪伴需求。然而，依據勞動部今年最新公布之調查，同意勞工請「家庭照顧假」之公司亦不到8成。","二、行政院主計總處調查指出，台灣主要承擔親職照顧責任的女性，勞動參與率的高峰竟然落在25-29歲，之後便一路下降（相較之下，男性勞參率的高峰落在35-39歲）；\n反觀申請育嬰留職停薪之受僱者，請假期滿後離開職場的比例僅不到10%。\n可見我國親職照顧仍帶來離職壓力，然而家長申請育嬰留職停薪之比例並不高，2023年初次核付津貼的件數僅9.7萬件，\n相比於同年新生兒數量13.5萬人，意即每個新生兒僅有約0.72位家長申請育嬰留職停薪（但通常會有2位家長）。","Q1勞動部過往均強調育嬰留職停薪申請件數逐年上升、男性比例創新高，然而目前於全體新生兒家長的申請比例上依然低落，尚未能有效應對「離職與生養子女間的兩難」。面對受僱者在實務上不願或無法申請育嬰留職停薪的困境，勞動部難道只能溫情喊話企業？請勞動部說明受僱者申請育嬰留職停薪的政策目標比例與推動方式。","三、截至111年底公共化及準公共托育服務的整體服務供給涵蓋率為31.88%，\n然而卻有嚴重的區域不均問題，南投、雲林、嘉義等縣市的涵蓋率甚至低於15%，代表這些縣市裡，每7個2歲以下的小孩就有6個沒辦法享受到平價的托育服務。而公托的不足，也間接影響女性的勞動參與率，台灣2歲以下幼兒的「家外送托率」僅19.88%，遠低於OECD平均的36%，比較各縣市的「公托涵蓋率」與「家外送托率」，兩者的相關係數高達0.995。意即台灣仍需積極擴大不足且不均的（準）公托涵蓋率，方能有效拉抬家外送托率、降低家庭對於生養小孩的預期經濟損失（高額托育花費或離職照顧之收入損失），進而提高促進生育的目標。","Q2勞動部的調查指出，員工規模100人以上事業單位有設立托兒服務機構或提供托兒措施的比例僅有70.4%；\n然而依據《性別平等工作法》第23條，雇用受僱者一百人以上之雇主「應」提供托兒設施或適當之托兒措施，是「必需」而非「鼓勵」。請問勞動部，在台灣缺乏平價托育供給的狀況下，《性別平等工作法》第23條卻缺乏相關罰則與強制力，勞動部有何實務作為？是否認同有修法之必要？","（依衛福部社家署提供資料製圖）","四、在請假的彈性上，有逾76%的受僱者認為認為應放寬以日或小時彈性使用育嬰留職停薪。\n事實上，不僅育嬰留職停薪有此需求，依目前《性別工作平等法》規定家庭照顧假併事假日數計算，對部分受僱者而言是「有假不好用」、「有假不敢請」；應增訂放寬至「小時」為單位的「親職假」，以方便家長出席學校親職日、處理兒童突發狀況等，友善勞工育兒需求。讓休假具有彈性、保障勞工能同時兼顧家庭，不用陷入家庭與工作多頭燒的天人交戰。","Q3請問勞動部是否贊同，包含育嬰留職停薪、家庭照顧假、生理假、陪產檢及陪產假、產（檢）假等各種生育相關假別，應放寬至以以日或小時彈性使用？以及增訂放寬至小時為單位之「親職假」？"],["委員陳菁徽書面質詢：","案由：本會委員陳菁徽，有鑑於今（113）年4月3日上午，台灣東部海域發生芮氏規模7.2大地震，除造成花蓮地區災情嚴外，全台各地大眾運輸工具亦因為搖晃劇烈停止。根據勞動部現行（74）台內勞字第351447號函：「未備有交通工具之事業單位員工搭乘其他交通工具上班，途中若發生不可歸責於員工之事由因而遲到，除經雇主查明有虛偽表示者外，應不視為遲到或曠職，至工資是否照給，若事業單位工作規則或勞動契約有規定者，從其規定；若無規定者，應由勞資雙方自行協商。」依此函釋，勞工因交通工具停擺無法抵達，恐會因雇主之要求，被迫請事假。","然而，又根據「天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資給付要點」，天然災害發生時（後），若勞工確因颱風、洪水、地震等因素阻塞交通致延遲到工或未能出勤時，雇主不得視為曠工、遲到或強迫勞工以事假或其他假別處理，且不得強迫勞工補行工作、扣發全勤獎金、解僱或為其他不利之處分。相較之下，現有法令對於天災事件發生後之勞工權益保護較為周全，除不得視為曠工、遲到外，更規定不得強迫以勞工以事假處理。","無論係天災無法到班，或因交通工具停擺，皆係不可歸責於勞工的不可抗力因素，本於同一法理，也不應讓因交通工具阻滯而難以到班勞工承受被迫請假的風險，且在勞資雙方權力關係往往不對等的情況下，「由勞資雙方自行協商」結果恐怕只是勞工必須吞下資方的要求，被迫將無法到班轉換成事假，犧牲一年僅有14天的事假，對勞工權利保障實有不足，爰要求勞動部研擬修改現行法規、函釋，規定因交通工具阻滯而無法到班者，也應比照天災情況，明定雇主不得強迫勞工以事假或其他假別處理，以保障勞工權益。"],["委員蘇清泉書面質詢：","勞動部是否注意到，勞工擔憂如果繼續請育嬰假的話，會不會引來同事的側目？突顯職場勞工育嬰假與同事代理業務，造成的職場緊張。","請育嬰假是勞工合法權利，但是公司站在妳這邊嗎？就現行法規而言，請育嬰假和申請育嬰留職停薪津貼都需要雇主蓋章同意，請問勞動部，是否思考過，育嬰假是勞工權利，為何還要僱主同意？","甚至有人資主管就要求過請育嬰假勞工，同時簽自願離職書，否則就不准請育嬰假。這樣的法規根本無助於改善勞工的權益，尤其在少子化的台灣，勞動部是否注意到該問題？應該如何改善？","雇主同意育嬰假後，勞保年資一年以上可再申請6個月平均月投保薪資60%的育嬰津貼，但是許多人的投保薪資與每月領到的薪水卻相去甚遠，導致實際領到的津貼，對於往後生活根本是杯水車薪。請問勞動部該如何改善此一政策？","然而一般的情況，勞動部是否統計過，長達兩年的留職停薪育嬰假，真正請好請滿的比例有多少？（會後請提供本席資料）是否提出申請的人並不多？有些女性上班族私下表示，現在大環境景氣不好，努力保住工作已不容易。該政策能否落實，對女性上班族而言，無異是緣木求魚。請問勞動部是否注意到此一政策困境？該如何解決？","育兒需求零碎且多變，應完整照顧到子女滿八歲，勞動部的政策是否與現實脫節？","育嬰假的名稱與概念也應再翻轉，因為育兒不只嬰幼兒時期，當孩子送托保母、就讀幼兒園、國小低年級上半天班的各階段，仍有照顧需求，對應實際需求，請問勞動部，育嬰假是否也該改名為「育兒假」？","育嬰假為什麼不能以「小時」請？","據勞動部2020年育嬰留職停薪期滿復職關懷調查，問及「育嬰留職停薪期滿，未返回原單位的主要原因」？撇除因為家庭因素自願離職者，有14%的女性和13%的男性，未回原單位的原因是「期待從事工時較短或較彈性的工作」；同樣各有10%的男性及女性，未回原單位的原因是「期待轉換離家近的工作」。台灣的育嬰假制度對勞資雙方都不夠友善，塊狀的請假天數，使員工必須育兒工作二選一，選擇育兒，等於中斷就業在家全職育兒。雇主擔心工作崗位人力替代問題，員工擔心長期中斷工作後的復職問題，員工之間更容易對彼此感到抱歉。對此，請問勞動部難道都沒有注意到嗎？","若今天育嬰假更彈性，前述加起來4成多的人，不必離開職場，只要透過育嬰假制度的調整，就可以緩衝上下班與接送托育的時間，企業將可留下更多珍貴且熟習原職場的勞動力。請問部長，是否有注意到勞工的需求？","最後，我認為，育嬰假彈性化早已是國際趨勢，瑞典是世界上首先實施育嬰假的國家，更被聯合國報告點名，育嬰假時間最具彈性。如果採取彈性育嬰假將會是僱主與勞工的雙贏，只要勞工每天晚一兩個小時上班，早一兩個小時下班，就能夠解決多數上班族的育嬰需求，希望勞動部對此能改善相關政策法規，共創僱主與勞工的雙贏。"],["委員陳冠廷書面質詢：","一、放寬婚假認定","（勞動部）部長，我想隨著社會觀念的推進，婚育脫鉤是趨勢，也有很多團體在進行倡議，我很期待可以透過這次的機會繼續凝聚社會共識。","不過婚姻在目前的社會價值下，經常被視為一個可以推進生育計畫的因素。因此如果我們放寬制度上對婚假的認定，讓新婚夫婦或伴侶可以擁有更多彈性使用假期的權利，由國家來營造更多友善婚假、生育的制度，我想社會都會正面看待。","部長，根據目前婚假的認定，依照民法第982條，是以登記日為準。再以公務人員請假規則第3條第1項第3款、教師請假規則第3條第1項第3款或是勞動部在2015年10月7日勞動條3字第1040130270號令的函釋來看，目前公務人員、教師、勞工請婚假是原則上以結婚之日前十日起三個月內請畢；但如果經機關、學校或雇主同意，可延長至一年內請畢。","部長，目前法規認定登記三個月內要使用婚假是否有特殊考量？如果沒有，我認為基於保障勞動權益、營造友善環境的情況下，應該要修法把經雇主同意的字眼拿掉，直接讓勞工可以在登記一年內，都可以選擇日期請婚假。","甚至，如果有特殊原因，像是疫情、傳統習俗，先登記後宴客，中間超過一年，我認為應要增加條文，讓勞工可以持結婚證書、喜帖雙證明向雇主商量申請有薪婚假，而不受一年時間限制。","部長，是不是可以朝這樣修法的方向來研議？部長，我很肯定勞動部在疫情期間曾經函釋受疫情影響的新人，可以自指揮中心解散後一年內都可以請婚假，但這個有「雇主同意」的前提才能延長。也就是說如果雇主不同意寬限期，員工單方面申請卻被雇主拒絕也是白搭。","部長，我希望政府可以帶頭營造對勞工請婚假的友善環境，同時也請雇主們多體諒這段期間新婚員工的請假權益，給予寬限期。結婚是人生重要大事，多數人一定也都希望能和另一半創造美好的蜜月旅行回憶，進而思考未來的人生規劃，這對社會都會有正面影響，我們政府一定要透過多元支持勞工的就業權益，進而鼓勵年輕人敢婚、敢生。","二、父親彈性育嬰假誘因","（勞動部）部長，行政院年初發布的「2024年性別圖像」顯示，政府在2021年加碼補助育嬰留職停薪津貼，讓留停期間的薪資替代率，可以達到平均月投保薪資的8成後，2022年男性申請比例達25.2%，比2020年的18.2%提升7個百分點，創歷年新高。我很肯定政府透過政策鼓勵，讓男性也認知到只要家庭有需要，也隨時可以換上圍裙，回家當「奶爸」、當「煮夫」。","我想，過去因為制度不友善，造成現今台灣年輕男性與父親的情感疏離，所以輪到他們有機會做爸爸時，很多人無論如何也不願再重蹈父親的覆轍，那麼政府就應該要積極提供無論是假期的協助或親職教育的進修，增強爸爸在照顧小孩上的技能與信心，而不是經歷挫折，只是讓自己淪為「幫忙」的角色。","我要強調，愈早把爸爸推上前線，媽媽愈有機會喘息，進而發展生活與事業的平衡。讓爸爸要建立與嬰兒的安全依附關係，提供彈性假期，像是提供「單日」計算的機制，製造讓父親與嬰兒單獨相處非常重要。","部長，理想很豐滿，但要提供民間足夠的誘因才有辦法與現實滾動並進，目前勞動部有什麼獎勵機制提升資方提供彈性的育嬰制度？","部長，我希望勞動部能儘速釐清現場實務狀況，儘速調整作為，讓社會對新手爸媽有更多支持的力量。"],["主席：現在作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢，委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者從期所定。","本日會議到此結束，現在休息，星期三上午九時繼續開會。","休息（12時59分）","� 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這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底 對現在馬上決定了對 可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以不是因為你如果到4月以後是報名截止日是六三加我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些"},{"start":144.622,"end":145.703,"text":"就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊"},{"start":161.186,"end":161.346,"text":"市部門50幾家"},{"start":181.814,"end":209.438,"text":"我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是事部門居多?事部門多事部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於事部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是事部門大過於公部門那當然就那你幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了"},{"start":213.742,"end":222.81,"text":"因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找起我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽"},{"start":228.234,"end":233.857,"text":"你們都聽哪幾個委員?沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會來參考啦有些委員的事也的確他擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做"},{"start":248.245,"end":275.58,"text":"呃這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括我剛我就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是事部門大櫃公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是事部門也可以可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁"},{"start":276.48,"end":277.24,"text":"這一個原則有這麼多彈數 這已經不叫做原則了吧 對不對"},{"start":304.667,"end":310.808,"text":"我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數"},{"start":329.652,"end":349.739,"text":"所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每一個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的肌體感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了"},{"start":351.86,"end":375.955,"text":"所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出是不是這樣是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有彈數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多彈數而且就是"},{"start":376.553,"end":392.387,"text":"用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態嘛對不對我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音嘛"},{"start":393.027,"end":407.6,"text":"但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是能力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛"},{"start":408.08,"end":408.6,"text":"第二件事情是這樣嘛齁"},{"start":431.254,"end":431.274,"text":"這個違反"},{"start":458.829,"end":477.355,"text":"對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天直到同仁要請假一小時全請減半"},{"start":478.675,"end":506.221,"text":"你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣辦是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組這不是很正常嗎餐飲遇到颱風天也是要叫自己想幫我去上班那遲到了也是要扣薪正常行業這樣就哀哀叫當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題"},{"start":507.621,"end":535.65,"text":"這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解"},{"start":537.53,"end":554.599,"text":"包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相度我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後"},{"start":560.923,"end":584.3,"text":"不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難"},{"start":586.561,"end":611.739,"text":"他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會申請彈性的那個運鏡貼對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室"},{"start":613.833,"end":628.521,"text":"黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情"},{"start":642.123,"end":670.112,"text":"所以你們應該是...應該是...難道你還是優於雇主、優於法規的心態歡迎?沒有啦,不會啦。這個...這個報告委員,如果他們還是執意這樣做,那勞工一定可以來申訴啦。不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理。我希望...我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛,對不對?是不是給我更強硬的一個清稿,然後把1955你就留上去吧?"},{"start":670.772,"end":697.448,"text":"好,那事實上司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦,像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面啦讓勞工都能夠了解好,最後一件事情啦,主席這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪,有地震也沒有掉,沒地震也掉那地震掉了更多,沒地震的掉得更少嗎?那倒也未必啊"},{"start":698.348,"end":713.16,"text":"要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧"},{"start":713.96,"end":730.771,"text":"像你看去年的5月10號是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同年的7月10月28號在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車亭還有公車剛好沒有人對不對?所以你要講跟你講"},{"start":731.791,"end":752.402,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這是地震全國七個塔掉確實有一些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方的交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":753.643,"end":779.198,"text":"我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝"},{"start":782.6,"end":783.101,"text":"好 謝謝劉建國委員"}]}},{"id":"150924","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150924","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981a8f10de580e679545942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6b01f5819580778665ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:25:55 - 12:38:20","影片長度":"00:12:25","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":745,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:38:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:25:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1107,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時26分）謝謝主席，麻煩請條平司黃司長。"],["主席：請黃司長。"],["黃司長維琛：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：司長好。記得上次本席請教您性別平等的問題，所以今天我也要再繼續請教育嬰留職停薪的問題。首先我要請教的是，育嬰留停的依據是不是放在性別平等工作法裡面？"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，是。"],["陳委員瑩：好。育嬰留停的申請比例如果有性別差異的話，是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題？"],["黃司長維琛：育嬰留停這部分的話，它的性別比例差異可能代表家庭裡面分工的一些協調，我們是希望能夠讓男性的參與比例更高。"],["陳委員瑩：我的問題很簡單，簡單問，你就簡單回答。"],["黃司長維琛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：所以，司長，今天專報的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例，你以男性司長的身分，是不是支持應該增加男性的比例？"],["黃司長維琛：我支持。"],["陳委員瑩：好。司長，增加男性申請育嬰留停的比例，我要請教一下，這裡的「增加」是男性跟女性比呢？還是男性自己跟自己比？還是男性未來跟過去比？"],["黃司長維琛：都要。"],["陳委員瑩：都要比，好。那我們再看一下簡報，上面是勞動部的新聞稿，事實上111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候，就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了，對一個家庭而言，他們要考慮的是兩個通通不領，或者是一個領，還是兩個都領。我不知道的是，司長，你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗呢？"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，我有3個小孩。"],["陳委員瑩：那你應該經驗豐富。帶小孩跟去上班，我們都是過來人，我也知道非常辛苦，我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過，但是陪著小孩的成長，其實它應該是說更有幸福感，也有成就感，也非常的快樂，所以，如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候，我想所有的父母都應該會選擇留職在家照顧小孩子才對。","其實我看到安研所有一份研究報告寫得非常好，這個報告是「育嬰留職停薪津貼請領者職涯變化之探討」，我稍微念一下其中的重點：就勞保投保薪資級距觀察，呈現兩極化分配以及投保薪資級距集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高。這份研究報告，大家有空可以去看一下，蠻值得參考的。","按照現行的規定，我們有月投保薪資6成的補助加上2成的津貼，參考主計總處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為817萬8,000人，全年每人每月總薪資的平均如果以5萬8,545元來看，而且是以最高勞保級距的4萬5,800元來計算，每申請一件6個月的育嬰留職停薪，就代表他每月的家庭收入實際上減少了2萬2,000元，而且換算起來，實際收入越高，減少的就越多。所以一般收入有限的家庭正常來講就一定是由薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請育嬰留停的津貼，這樣對於整個家庭的財務衝擊會比較小一點。所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方經統計看起來似乎女性的比例比較高，所以勞動部應該思考的問題是如何提升女性的薪資水平，而不是只去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例。我們參考這整個統計數據，其實它是一個經濟的問題，而並非絕對是一個性別差異的問題。","司長，你有沒有想過？如果我們勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子，父母親同時申請育嬰留停津貼，就代表我們國家減少一個勞工人年的勞動力，以112年為例，我們臺灣有13.5萬名新生兒，如果父母雙方通通一起來使用育嬰留停津貼的話，代表我們減少13.5萬個勞工人年的勞動力，這個部分的缺工有沒有可能需要以外籍勞工來補充？會不會增加外籍勞工的人數？"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，如果申請育嬰留職停薪，是可以進用部分定期契約的替代人力，這個部分就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那我們繼續看一下。基本上，本席當然舉雙手雙腳贊成，就是我們的育嬰假越多越好，但是要有完善的配套，剛剛也有講了，它可能造成勞動力短缺的問題，所以我們就今天這個專報的題目來看，在男性、女性的權益相同的時候，我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例，等於可能造成一個家庭總收入的減少，1個人2萬2,000元，2個人就4萬4,000元，那半年加起來就是26萬4,000元，有哪一個年輕的勞工家庭承受得了？很難嘛！"],["黃司長維琛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：而且大家都請假了，外籍勞工補充人力的需求會增加，所以我要請教司長，你要如何增加男性申請育嬰假的比例呢？"],["黃司長維琛：對這個部分大家有在討論讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下，就是說我們這次在試辦，看30天有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點，那他可能彈性申請運用的機率就會再高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那我再來算給你聽，我們113年的同酬日是2月23日，男女雙方還有54天的薪資差異，那你們有沒有針對女力提升補助短期專業訓練課程的費用？有沒有這個？"],["黃司長維琛：這個訓練的部分在我們發展署那邊有努力。"],["陳委員瑩：我就知道你會講發展署，完全在我的預料之內。好，你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工投保薪資的變化是否有顯著的差異嗎？有沒有？"],["黃司長維琛：大型事業單位的平均投保薪資當然會比較高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：你就想一想你有沒有做啦！"],["黃司長維琛：我們沒有去直接……"],["陳委員瑩：或者你覺得那是誰的……"],["黃司長維琛：但是它確實是會比較高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：你不要犯了職安署署長過去的毛病，簡單問，簡單回答。"],["黃司長維琛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：再來，你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成勞工權益損失的證據然後對外說明？你想一想有沒有？其實我根本就不用問下一題，因為你已經透露出預測到我要問的問題，我下一個要問的是你該不會認為以上的問題都和你的業務無關吧？你已經點名別的署了！"],["黃司長維琛：我們這邊的話就是包括這個性別平等的部分一定會一起去解決，它不是一個單一點。"],["陳委員瑩：好啦！我比較擔心你只會提醒勞資雙方不要發生職場性騷擾，然後認為這樣就代表你們性平做得好。"],["黃司長維琛：不是，不是這樣。"],["陳委員瑩：最好是像你說的這樣，你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作。","好，本席順帶提醒一下，勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌的法律名稱變了，或許是因為執行得不好，那整部法律的名稱、內容都更改了，但還是沿用原主管機關的名稱，像性平法已經變成性工法了，但是你們還是叫條平司，另外就是職安署，現在職保法都已經沒有了，業務也轉到勞保局，可是你們還有一個職保組，這樣會不會有一點名不正言不順，還是說要不要裁撤？我想我就丟出這些問題，讓你們各位主管還有首長去思考一下。","最後，本席要再一次謝謝、也要肯定許銘春部長非常傑出的領導，因為在我們這一次準備質詢時我才發現一件事情，其實今天很多委員也提了，但是大家都沒有提到後面，我要講一下。忽然大家的耳朵都豎起來。在110年提高育嬰假2成的補助，還有在111年父母雙方同時都可以領，這個真的是許部長很重要的政績，要給她掌聲鼓勵。各位同仁，你們拍手可以拍大聲一點。再來是性工法的修訂跟災保法的訂定，尤其是災保法，是在本席擔任召委時與許部長一起，我們當時的那段過程還有很多委員的參與，在大家共同努力之下，突破了15年以來各界的疑慮並順利完成，所以非常的不容易。在災保法實施之後，部長更是兼任這個法人的董事長，她凡事親力親為，雖然做兩份工作卻只領一份薪水而已。我相信許部長的身影會一直留在勞動部每一位同仁的心裡還有我的心裡。我也提醒勞動部的官員們，以後推動法案可能就不見得有這麼容易，那我們大家還是要繼續努力。以上跟大家共勉之，謝謝。"],["黃司長維琛：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳瑩委員。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是"},{"start":108.146,"end":115.156,"text":"男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比"},{"start":115.916,"end":138.846,"text":"都要。都要比。好。那我們再看一下這個簡報。上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿。那事實上呢,111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了。"},{"start":140.086,"end":157.318,"text":"那對一個家庭而言考慮的是他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領或者兩個對沒錯那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗"},{"start":158.519,"end":171.411,"text":"報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過"},{"start":174.174,"end":193.732,"text":"但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對"},{"start":198.147,"end":214.951,"text":"其實我有看到安研所有一份研究報告,他寫得非常好。這個報告是《育嬰留職停薪津貼情靈者職涯變化之探討》。我稍微念一下這個重點。"},{"start":218.049,"end":234.716,"text":"就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的"},{"start":236.877,"end":258.892,"text":"按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為8178000人那全年每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看"},{"start":261.994,"end":279.628,"text":"而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留值停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元"},{"start":281.69,"end":298.746,"text":"而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭呢一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼"},{"start":299.847,"end":320.054,"text":"那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題"},{"start":321.594,"end":350.233,"text":"是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例所以這整個我們參考這個整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以師長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子"},{"start":351.975,"end":375.952,"text":"父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力"},{"start":379.454,"end":406.382,"text":"那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留職停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是"},{"start":409.147,"end":425.482,"text":"基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看"},{"start":429.225,"end":450.986,"text":"男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了"},{"start":451.647,"end":454.288,"text":"您如何提高男性育嬰留停比例?"},{"start":471.503,"end":487.943,"text":"這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點"},{"start":488.968,"end":508.409,"text":"好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個"},{"start":514.14,"end":530.096,"text":"這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有"},{"start":532.759,"end":537.941,"text":"你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對外說明有沒有想一想有沒有"},{"start":561.741,"end":590.623,"text":"還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好"},{"start":591.263,"end":620.239,"text":"不是不是這樣最好是這樣啊你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下喔勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署"},{"start":620.879,"end":622.7,"text":"那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民春部長"},{"start":648.248,"end":663.122,"text":"非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來"},{"start":664.989,"end":683.784,"text":"110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有110年111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們許部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點"},{"start":687.223,"end":712.815,"text":"那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長"},{"start":713.695,"end":713.715,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":743.837,"end":743.999,"text":"好謝謝陳瑩委員"}]}},{"id":"150923","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150923","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981b3fa0f55cdb13f453b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6147423978a1619b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:33:36 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12:41:49","影片長度":"00:08:13","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":493,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:41:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:33:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":952,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時33分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請楊主委。"],["主席：請楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委好。首先，客委會113年度預算在「綜合規劃發展─客家族群主流化發展計畫」編列1.17億左右，我們先來探討其中辦理「跨域合作推廣」部分，這個跨域合作推廣是要促進臺灣與全球客家多元發展，相關計畫的經費大概是3,000萬左右，相比112年預算，你們自己就數減少了喔。我們又查到這3年度的預算執行率都低於4成，本席覺得非常的訝異，因為我們希望客家文化可以跟世界接軌，除了國內的推廣，國際的推廣也非常的重要，但是你們竟然自己把預算減少了，而且我們又看到你的執行率都是低於4成。","另外，我再給你一個統計，112年8月底累計執行數跟預算數相比的確是有落差，所以本席首先請教主委，我們要如何來加強海外客家社團辦理活動？你要怎麼樣去加強？同時在整個督導跟評估方面，又要怎麼樣去落實你的預算執行？請做說明。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員，臺灣是自由民主的社會，在客家文化創新方面，在全世界來講，我們相對是比較進步的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們有資助民間社團去蹲點、長期交流，不過跟委員報告，因為客委會有一項很大的支出，就是伯公照護站，伯公照護站需要的額度越來越高，因為民間各縣市申請的數量越來越增加，我們是一直有向主計總處爭取經費，但都沒有辦法爭取到，所以我們必須在不同項目，在大的項目中拿出一部分來支持，國內的部分，因為我們認為這是老人家所需要的，我們應該優先考慮來辦理。","最近要編列概算了，我們還是會提出伯公照護站的部分另外給我們一筆錢，這樣我們的海外交流就可以增加，現在我們海外交流部分有的是用藝文發展的錢，比如資助我們的音樂家、歌手去東南亞巡迴表演，這個部分就是用我們藝術傳播的經費，本來這個應該是用南向國際交流的經費，所以實質上我們還是透過預算中各項目的運用方式來補足對海外部分的欠缺，我們希望……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有欠缺要怎麼解決呢？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：要如何解決就是現在跟委員報告的，第一，我們最基本的是向主計總處爭取伯公照護站的相關經費，因為現在全國有五百多個站點，所以這個需求很大。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，你剛才講到的這些，你就沒法度啊！你要必須要去調整啊！你預算編了但執行率不出來，講這些理由，這不是理由的！我給了1分鐘的時間讓你講，但我還是認為你必須要去改變你的方法，你必須要去改變你的方法，看怎麼樣去結合，這樣你才有辦法去落實，好不好？你把這些方案提供書面資料給本席，這是第一個。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對不起，那個部分就是因為我們移到伯公照護站，才會有這個問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你講客家語，我聽得懂。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這個部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你講客家語，我有注意在聽。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我擔心委員聽不懂，因為這個部分，剛才說海外的錢不夠、執行率低，那是因為我們將那個錢移到伯公照護站，為什麼要移過來？因為伯公照護站每年爭取專門經費卻爭取不到，但是民間的要求越來越提升……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，您這麼說本席還是沒有辦法認同，你這樣的說法，你把錢轉到這個工作站，有五百多站，但是你的成效呢？我們要結果論，看你的成效，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，我們提供資料給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把可以改善的空間在哪裡、方案怎麼去結盟，這非常重要，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，我們書面提供給委員，感謝委員指導。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第二個本席要跟你討論的也是語言，我跟你討論過幾次，在深耕語言的部分、客語傳承的部分，我跟你討論過了好幾次。所以本席要請教客家語言深植計畫，在111年度裡頭30歲以下的通過率沒有達到6成，那怎麼辦呢？年輕族群的客家語言能力有在下降，這怎麼辦？你要怎麼樣去保存、去傳承、去推廣，這是本席跟你討論過幾次的。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：當事人要學客家話或是不學客家話，我們沒有辦法用法律、也不應該用法律去做強制規定，所以要創造的是機會，這是第一點。第二點，我們要創造對客家話友善的環境，提升大家對客家話的認同，至於說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你怎麼提升對客家的認同呢？因為你的數字告訴我30歲以下的達不到6成啊！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：要通過認證還是要學到一個程度，我也沒辦法說為了要提升，所以把標準放寬，還是一樣要嚴格……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要方法，要提升，所以本席告訴你，你可以用寓教於樂的方式，讓大家先把吸引力拉進來，這樣年輕族群是不是會增加大家的這個……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們有辦雨馬、諸葛四郎這些戲劇的表演……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我知道你有在加油，但是我們還有空間好不好？不要每次本席提問，你就是把諸葛四郎提出來，你每次都講諸葛四郎，不能講別的？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：還有很多。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有？好，你怎麼樣可以去提升，本席是憂心的，不要30歲以下通過認證的都達不到6成，我覺得我很憂心。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：30歲以下的確實還要再加強。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們怎麼樣去加強它好不好？你再把方案提供書面資料給本席。最後一個議題，我要跟你討論的是普查的問題，到目前為止，你的普查113年度跟112年度相比，雖然你有增加預算，但是70個客家文化重點發展區，到目前為止，你的普查是完成60個全區普查，所以你還沒有完成，還有10個還沒有完成。請問主委，要落實文化基礎資料，你整個的規劃依據跟各界的學術研討，這個是非常重要，你那10個什麼時候會完成？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，這個問題前幾年因為委員有關心，所以後來我有要求客發中心加速……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：今年完成。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：今年底。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：今年要完成？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：今年70個全部完成。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在還有10個。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員對我們的關心，我們會努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你今年要完成？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：今年。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，加油！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢。下一位請賴士葆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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12:33:23","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":580,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:33:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:23:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":903,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（12時23分）主席好，我們有請楊主委。"],["主席：請楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：主委好，我今天是特地來見您，因為我們一樣是苗栗人，一樣是客家人，尤其主委的兩位同學擔任我的秘書，所以我對主委有特別的感情，所以我想要問主委，主委，你對苗栗有特殊的感情嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：當然有，那是自己的故鄉，但要兼顧公職上應該要做到平等，難免在同樣的情況之下，我們對苗栗說實在的，仍有需要加強的地方。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到你們的369客庄幸福計畫，以及加速推動地方創生的計畫，在你們的案件裡面，為何苗栗的補助比較少呢？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這是因為各年度每個地方提出的額度都不同，以苗栗縣來講，目前我們有大項的兩個建設，一個是明德水庫環湖自行車暨環湖步道，一個是出磺坑對面的文學花園，這兩個計畫加起來，目前苗栗一定是排第一名，但它是分期編列的。這兩個生活環境營造計畫補助各縣市的情況，第一名還是苗栗縣，有162件，經費達13億，這是目前正在進行當中，已經核定的部分。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我有看到資料，但我嚇了一跳，因為苗栗……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這是因為不同項目的統計方式是不一樣的，相關的資料我們再提供給委員。"],["邱委員鎮軍：難得由你擔任客委會主委，我當然希望……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：但是我要跟委員報告，雖然是自己的故鄉應該要多重視，但是我並沒有偏心，其他縣市該做的我們還是要做。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但我希望你能多偏心一點啊，因為苗栗的資源比較少，你從小在苗栗長大，我想你應該比較清楚苗栗缺少什麼。","再來，苗栗市目前有兩個計畫，一個是福麗步道的建設，另一個是西山聖帝廟創生環境的建設，我記得在前年的時候就定案了，不過去年選舉的時候停下來，很多人傳說是因為選舉的關係，我剛擔任市長，所以要讓我們好看。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我跟委員報告，如果我們看整個苗栗縣，我們知道苗栗縣縣長並不是綠色執政，各鄉鎮公所大部分也都不是綠色執政，但是該補助的，像我剛剛報告的，我們還是第一名，沒有影響。"],["邱委員鎮軍：地方建設和顏色本身並沒有關係啦，今天本席主要是要提醒你，選舉已經結束了，案子應該要過啦，好嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我跟委員報告，步道的部分我們也希望給予支援，我們歷年來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：經費要加一點啊！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：其實那個計畫已經定案很多年了，方向上我們會來協調，只要方向確定，一定會續做。至於西山聖帝廟的部分，關於宗教怎樣符合客家社區文化公共發展的需求，這部分我們會再和寺廟做協調，但不要只是宮廟自己使用的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然這樣很好，主委……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：它並不是裝飾性的工程。"],["邱委員鎮軍：會後請您找個人跟我對口，我負責溝通，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望依照當地的需求去做，這樣建設完成以後才能夠好好地使用，尤其福麗步道計畫已經討論很久了，那邊也有很多支持你的人……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我知道，無論支不支持啦，像風雨球場也是在你市長任內完成的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我有照你的意思做。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們確實沒有分藍綠啦，如果分藍綠的話，苗栗縣就都不用補助了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，沒有人在計較這個啦，當然有立場的問題，我要說的是，選舉已經過去了，有些地方的建設希望主委能夠多幫忙，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：補助沒有影響。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我看到客家委員會有一個文化發展基金，以前有在進行，但現在進度好像停下來了。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，一開始我們有跟院內討論要設立一個基金，基本上它要有固定的資金來源，才符合一般設立基金的需求，當然實質上的需求也是個問題，所以當年行政院就開始增加客委會的預算，本來3億元要成立基金，現在我們是每年3億元，比以前的增加預算讓客委會來運用，所以實際上客委會可以運用的錢不會低於基金，但是又不會像基金要靠本身的資源循環，將來在運作上才不會有問題。當然，將來相關的文化事務越來越多，有需求的時候，我們還是不排除成立一個基金，以現況來說，我們的資源還是足夠。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是我認為設立基金對於我們客家文化的推動會更有保障，當然行政院這邊如果願意給我們客委會比較多的金額，編列更多的預算，當然我們也是希望主委好好利用。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：會的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我還有另外一個問題要請教主委，520過後，你會留下來嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：520過後是否留任不是我能安排的，不過我個人……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我是希望你能夠留下來啦，當然希望你可以再做大一點的。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：部長還要再大到哪裡去我也不知道！","跟委員報告，我個人在進入公部門的時候就做好了生涯規劃，至於如何規劃的細節我不方便報告，因為人事的東西還是由上層去宣布公開。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看您還很年輕嘛，要多為地方來做事。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我頭髮都白了！"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看不會啦！頭腦好的人比較白！","接下來再請教主委，您的書面報告中有個推展「客家向原住民族致敬」活動，請問一下，為什麼要用這個名稱？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，我們客家政策就是面臨到在大社會裡面是少數族群，有時候不被別人重視，因為我們認為族群政策就是族群關係的政策，所以需要用族群關係的角度去做個示範，我們客家人住的地方過去大部分是原住民的領域，他們接納了我們進來，當然過去的歷史有些不愉快的部分，事情已經過去了，至少我們要感謝、要飲水思源，當初我們的祖先來到臺灣有個地方可以落腳，可以讓我們有後代，才能到今天有我們這些人。基於這樣的角度，我們認為不僅僅是客家向原住民族致敬，應該是全臺灣都要向原住民致敬，但是我們客委會……"],["邱委員鎮軍：客家人先帶頭啦！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然，我們族群能融合是很好的。主委，我看到其中有推動青少年三對三籃球賽，有關比賽的部分，我也不反對，但是我建議是不是針對原客文化去做多一點的文化交流，讓大家更瞭解，因為老實說，前面這個標題會讓大家覺得是不是客家人對不起原住民，所以我覺得文化的交流是有必要的。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：如果是致歉就代表我們對不起啦，雖然我個人是認為要致歉，但是我認為從整個社會的角度來說，不方便用致歉，所以我們是用致敬，致敬就不代表我們有做錯或沒做錯的事情，但是表達了這個地方容納我們的祖先能落腳生活，這一點我們要感謝原住民，讓原住民的文化資源、精神分享給大家，是基於這一點啦。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢。下一位請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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主委好今天動不動就會哭了因為平平的苗栗人 又平平的客家人當然尤其這樣主委講到童話 人家是天使 人家是民俗但是對人家 有特別的感情所以我想問主委 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那我們有請勞動部 請許部長"},{"start":31.786,"end":33.486,"text":"一共63那其中中小型企業有幾家呢?"},{"start":57.072,"end":60.877,"text":"中小企業?私人企業是53家,但是企業規模...我們這個企業規模都會比較大一點,對人力的運用上去"},{"start":71.889,"end":90.652,"text":"我們來申請的比較多是比較大型企業但是我們是不是可以來鼓勵中小企業呢畢竟從這個數據上面也可以看到嘛中小企業在我們台灣的整體的就業人口數來說是相對來說比較多的有到7成5所以如果我們報名的都是大型企業那其實是沒有反映到我們真實的就業市場的一個狀況"},{"start":91.593,"end":109.049,"text":"中小企業當然他主要就是人力的運用上會發生困難那這部分我們會未來在我們的那個事辦委員這裡面包括說如何來優先媒合包括我們的發展署的一些就會媒合臺灣就會通等等資源他會來協助優先幫他們媒合"},{"start":111.411,"end":136.229,"text":"但是我想可能只有臺灣就業通可能也還不夠因為畢竟我想在上面媒合工作人員還是相對比較少所以我們可不可以再有更積極的一些做法那這個東西沒關係我們可以再繼續的討論但是我希望是說這三天大概隔壁三天之後給我一些現在的企業參與的名單參與名單因為我也不好意思這恐怕又牽涉到這個個人這個私人企業的事業單位的意願問題是不是"},{"start":138.251,"end":140.232,"text":"這個部分要跟他說明會之後才知道辦理的範圍"},{"start":163.198,"end":172.563,"text":"因為我們要跟這些私人企業開座談會因為要做一些說明是不是容許我們座談會"},{"start":173.753,"end":197.566,"text":"還在跟委員來回報。大概什麼時候?半個月?兩個禮拜?一個月?半個月後吧。月五前好了。現在四月幾好了?現在四月八號。好。半個月幾前好了。好。可以。那再下一個就是說我想問一下我們法律規定的兒童是到幾歲呢?十八。法律的規定是兒少學法是十二啦。人和國是十八沒有錯。那再來就是說"},{"start":199.73,"end":226.599,"text":"我們的幼兒呢?我們的幼兒是幾歲?我們的幼兒規定的年齡是到幾歲?幼兒是3、4、5、6好沒關係我們看一下幼教法是到6歲2歲到6歲之前所以這是幼兒的定義但我們現在性別平衡法第16條裡面是定義就是說他在請育嬰留停是3歲以前那為什麼會定義一個3歲呢?部長知道嗎?"},{"start":228.427,"end":231.953,"text":"因為可能那時候是考慮到又拖的一些機制吧"},{"start":233.863,"end":258.048,"text":"當時沒錯,1991年的時候是想說我們的幼托機制未真完善所以是訂到三歲但是我想我們在幼托小朋友三歲之後難道家長就沒有照顧的需求了嗎?我們可以看到就是在這個長病毒每次到夏天這個時間長病毒都是個高峰期那冬天有流感我們現在就會在各縣市是有訂例要停課的四到七天"},{"start":259.605,"end":286.986,"text":"那這樣子的狀況之下到底家長要怎麼照顧小孩呢?6歲以上這是小時候的部分喔當然他現在有家庭照顧假啦對我們有家庭照顧假沒有錯但是我們家庭照顧假是的情的比例非常的低耶我們的男性只有2.1%女性只有5.5%因為他為什麼不好用為什麼情理的人這麼少重點就是因為他不執行嘛主要是他沒有給心啦對他沒有給心嘛"},{"start":289.284,"end":311.264,"text":"再來看這也是衛福部自己的一個調查衛福部調查是說我們有非常高的比例的女性都是因為照顧孩童離職的我們其實今天一直在講說女性就業的人口勞動力不要下減不要因為照顧家庭而離開職場可是我們現在種種的不利因素都讓女性必須因為照顧未滿12歲的兒童離開職場"},{"start":314.967,"end":341.362,"text":"所以我們這個家庭照顧假呢是不是有可能可以讓他再去做一些修正讓他可以知新也讓他可以去延長延長到12歲因為以現在的需求他就是以現在的一些法規的支持就是不夠欸這部分是不是可以去調整來研議放寬到12歲呢我們往這個方向來研議"},{"start":343.823,"end":368.783,"text":"這個部分還有就是除了12歲之外還有就是說家庭照顧假之心的部分因為目前就是新聞已經有講了嘛公務人員有可是勞工一直都沒有那這個明明我們最大的就業人口就在勞工市場那這一塊是不是這個部分當然就牽涉到財源對財源怎麼來解決這個部分我們再來可能要跨部會討論對那這個我們大概什麼時候可以會有更進一步的一些研議的結果呢"},{"start":370.645,"end":370.725,"text":"討論的結果"},{"start":375.339,"end":399.265,"text":"我是覺得委員因為這個問題會當然不只裁員包括人力的調配等等我們是認為說可能我們再跟相關的工商團體勞工團體做一些討論然後再來看看推動的時程讓我想我們沒有設限就是如果討論大家都有支持我們當然可以很快來處理但是"},{"start":400.925,"end":414.096,"text":"當然有這個共識之後那再跟跨部會這邊因為裁員的部分要怎麼解決必須院的層級來幫忙好那這樣子好不好我們還是因為我們還是持續來追蹤那大概3個月之後我們再來追蹤一下這個進度好不好好不好謝謝喔好謝謝張雅琳委員發言"}]}},{"id":"150920","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150920","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981154e3856298796ca3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a689bdc5088dcae9335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra 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12:23:32","影片長度":"00:09:02","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":542,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:23:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:14:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":875,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時14分）主席、各位委員，有請客委會主委。"],["主席：好，客委會楊主委。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：Nga'ay ho！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：Nga'ay ho，謝謝鄭委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。非常謝謝客委會持續的辦理「客家向原住民族致敬」的活動，在這邊特別再次表達感謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這是應該要做的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：「Aray」是謝謝的意思，Aray！","原住民族語言發展法在106年6月14號公布施行，我提的條文，第一條的第一句話，在審查時我堅持一定要通過，本來文化部、原民會都有意見，經過堅持協調之後，通過了第一條的第一句話，以原住民族語言為國家語言。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這非常重要。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，所以客家基本法，客委會當時也很快的跟進，這是應該的，因為這是非常重要的，客家基本法第三條的第一句話「客語為國家語言之一，與各族群語言平等。」這是一個非常好的條文、非常好的規定；緊接著108年1月9號，國家語言發展法第三條也跟進，特別提到「本法所稱國家語言，指臺灣各固有族群使用之自然語言及臺灣手語」。","今天要特別跟主委和原住民族要一起努力的地方，我看你的報告裡面提到，為精進客語師資培育及聘用制度，教育部與客委會於112年12月29號會銜修正發布高級中等以下學校及幼兒園客語師資培育資格及聘用辦法，你們的目標是希望公立中等學校應以至少聘用一名客語師資為目標，現在距離這個目標還有多遠？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：因為學校要有缺額，他們有缺額我們才有辦法做到，所以我們沒辦法講一講就馬上做到，不過教育部和我們有密切的聯繫，對於增加這個部分，大家都有用心在做，當有缺額時，就會把師資補齊。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，請教一下，因為這邊是寫公立中等學校，請問國小目前的狀況如何？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：國中小學的部分，過去已經推動相當長的時間，以前剛開始的時候因為欠缺人員，所以招募民間人士，用教學支援人員的方式，但這種方式也已經執行了兩、三年，因此我們希望在學校教客語的儘量是具有正式資格的老師。我們分兩部分來做，第一部分是我們和教育部合作，在相關的師資培育大學中開設客語教學的學分，培育新的師資，但是因為少子化的關係，現在有缺額的不多；另外一部份，我們提供機會給現任的老師，用密集教學的方式輔導他們考過客語中高級認證，這樣就可以在他們的教師證上列入第二專長，用這樣的方式增加正式資格教師們的意願，提升客語教育的素質。","坦白跟委員報告，目前進行得不是很順利，因為對於現任教師來說，他就算沒去參加這些訓練，他本來就是教師，所以我們要爭取資源，對於這些願意取得客語中高級認證，願意用沉浸式教學的教師，每個月另外有1,000元的課程規劃費和2,000元的研究費，目前我們和縣市政府積極的推動，教師還是不多，目前參與的情況還沒達到我們的理想，但是在努力當中。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：請問一下，現在的客語專職老師，有專職的客語老師嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那他需要教師證嗎？他需要教師的資格，所以必須要有大學教師的這些？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：剛才有跟委員報告過，目前的教師有兩種，一種是以前留下來繼續在教學的教學資源人員，他們有通過一定的訓練和檢定出來的，但是我們認為這是過渡時期的作法，現在的目標是，聘請合格正式的師資來教客家話，這部分仍需要繼續努力，這是這兩年開始我們比較積極希望增加的師資。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我讓主委還有客委會的同仁瞭解一下，原住民族專職的族語老師，專職的族語老師，本來一開始教育部的規定還是要有教師資格，必須要有教師證，經過我的協調，然後在法律上明定可以不要有教師的資格、教師證，只要依據原住民族教育法，通過原住民族語言的認證，他就可以成為專職的族語老師，這個部分是讓原住民族的族語老師……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：瞭解。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不然的話，如果一定要有教師資格，一定要有教師證，那就很難，就變成一直都是支援老師、支援教學，這個就有很大的差距，會有很大的落差，這個部分我不知道客家語言的老師……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我想因為各族群面臨的問題不太一樣，原住民族的人數占全國的比例比較低，具有教師資格的人數相對不夠，所以原民會根據特殊情況的需求，他們在教學資源人員和正式教師之外，成立原住民的專職人員，這是依照原住民社會的需求。但是以我們客家的情形來說，因為客家的老師在全國其實不會太少，在這當中如何鼓勵他們去取得中高級的認證，坦白跟委員報告，我們師資的資格，對於語言本身的地位有個暗示的作用，所以我們希望讓老師也好，學生也好，家長也好，認為客家話是一個正式的課程，而不是臨時找一個不具老師資格的人來上課。當然教學支援人員過去的確有相當重大的貢獻，我們非常感謝他們，但是經過這二十幾年，我們認為有需要慢慢地將他轉成專責的教師，這是國家應該要做的事情，所以我們研擬讓在客家地區的正式教師取得中高級的認證，可以來進行沉浸式的雙語教育，這是我們要努力的目標。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，繼續努力、繼續加油。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝鄭委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢，下一位我們請邱鎮軍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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12:18:47","影片長度":"00:06:20","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":380,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:18:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:12:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1026,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時12分）主席好，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：范委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長早安，先謝謝召委安排今天這個非常重要的主題。之前我跟部長質詢時就有提案，針對你們目前試辦的彈性育嬰假，我認為用意很好，可是配套不夠，所以應該要多向民團諮詢。後來我有聽到民團講有被諮詢，也希望能有更好的方案。但除了彈性育嬰假之外，還有什麼是該做的？所以我今天提出兩大問題與兩項育嬰假的改革建議。","部長有沒有看過2019年聯合國關於臺灣低生育率原因報告？或者有沒有人跟你簡述過？"],["許部長銘春：有。"],["范委員雲：有？那你應該知道根據聯合國的研究結果，臺灣低生育率原因在於育兒與家務強烈性別分工不均。就這部分來說，臺灣其實是相對進步的立法，因為我們當時是參照北歐的作法，讓不同的家長來請。從左邊的線可以看到，臺灣女性二十五歲到二十九歲有九成在職場，之後隨著年齡急速下降，比日本和南韓可怕！這代表相對於日本跟南韓，我們有很多女性隨著年齡關係，會因為照顧工作而被迫離開職場，之後當變成阿嬤的時候，還要幫忙照顧孫子女，這是我國女性遇到的問題。","從育嬰留停津貼的男女請領人數來看，100年到111年男性請領人數都低於兩成，但到了111年後端曲線起來了，這是因為我們改變，至於為什麼改變，我想部長應該知道。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["范委員雲：就是當給的錢增加到八成時，男性請領比例就突破了兩成，請領人數增加四萬人，成長了近五成！這表示男性不是不願意請育嬰假，而是他薪水平均可能比女性高、比媽媽高，所以相衡之下，如果給的錢提高了，他就有動力請，這是一個非常重要的數字。我在這邊跟您訴求，這是我自己也有參與的，也是賴副總統的政見之一，部長有看到吧？"],["許部長銘春：有。"],["范委員雲：雙就業雙照顧的第一個政見就是：為落實性別平等，共同分攤育兒責任；若雙親都將領有育嬰津貼之育嬰假請滿，可以再多請一個月津貼。這個政見並非臺灣賴副總統獨創，而是北歐發現這樣的制度有助於雙親都來請，特別有助於爸爸來請，因為會多一個假。部長，您本人支持這個方向嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我是支持的，我覺得這對照顧幼兒的雙親來說是一種鼓勵跟獎勵，且多一個月還好。"],["范委員雲：部長既然支持的話，我想我們不用等賴副總統上任，您現在其實就可以規劃，這是我今天第一個想問的。","現在我還想問的是，我們都看到育嬰留停的薪資替代率很重要，當你漲到八成的時候，平均薪資相對比較高的爸爸就會來領。但現在投保薪資天花板為45,800，反而是在變相懲罰月薪較高的人！因為月薪較高的人最多只能領到36,640，等於他如果申請的話收入會大跳水，也影響到這群人申請育嬰留停的意願。不知部長對這有什麼看法？有沒有機會改善？我想不管薪資高低，都應該讓他們有一樣的機會來請育嬰……"],["許部長銘春：因為打開天花板會牽涉到勞保財務問題。委員講的這一題我瞭解，但因為我們是比照勞保，如果打開的話，勞保財務馬上會受很大影響，所以這個連動比較大。我覺得未來如果勞保財務有改善的話，這部分才能夠來思考……"],["范委員雲：當然。我記得之前也有委員提出照顧基金的附帶決議，如果部長記得的話。鑑於我們生育率這麼低，不管財源是什麼，我認為這是一個非常重要的改革，也希望部長能花更多心力，不管是找學者或者研議都行。因為育嬰留停的薪資替代率低，等於會讓大家不敢離開職場。","最後我提兩個訴求：第一，請部長是不是可以研議提升育嬰留停津貼的比例到九成或全薪？我們生育率這麼低，至少從國際上、聯合國的相關研究來看，這會是一個重要的方法。第二，針對薪資超過月投保薪資上限的勞工，是不是能夠提出實質薪資替代率的配套措施？我們知道財源會是一個問題，可是跟生育率比起來，我想如何解決財源問題應該是部長要努力的。這兩個訴求跟今天的主題非常相關，部長是不是可以研議？我只有請你研議喔！"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["范委員雲：再不研議的話，我想勞動部就失職了，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：可以，我們來研議一下。"],["范委員雲：多久可以研議出來，給本席跟衛環委員會一個報告？"],["許部長銘春：一個月好不好？"],["范委員雲：一個月？好，謝謝部長。加油。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員。","接下來請張雅琳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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那你應該知道聯合國的研究是看到臺灣低生育率原因在於育兒跟家務強烈的性別分工不均那這個部分臺灣其實是一個相對進步的立法因為我們當時是參照北歐的就是說就是能夠讓就是不同的parent不同的家長來請那你看到左邊這邊的線你也可以看到臺灣的女性"},{"start":86.761,"end":103.473,"text":"只有25歲到29歲久沉在職場隨著年齡急速下降這個限比日本跟南韓更可怕那這個限代表就是說其實相對日本跟南韓我們有很多的女性她隨著年齡會因為照顧工作被迫離開職場"},{"start":104.954,"end":121.952,"text":"後端還可能變成是阿嬤的時候幫忙照顧孫子、孫子女這是我國的女性遇到的問題可以看你們育嬰留停津貼的男女情侶人數你可以看到100年到110男性情侶人數都低於兩成"},{"start":122.572,"end":144.537,"text":"可是呢111年就是後端這個起來的時候是因為就是我們改變了部長應該知道嘛為什麼改變部長曉得就是當你把給的錢增加的時候到八成的時候男性情侶比例就突破了兩成那情侶人數增加4萬人成長了近五成"},{"start":145.317,"end":167.94,"text":"這表示男性不是不願意請育嬰假而且他的薪水可能平均是比女性高比媽媽高所以相衡之下如果你提高了他就有動力請那這是一個非常重要的數字那這邊我也跟您訴求就是我自己也有參與的我們賴副總統的政見之一這個部長有看到吧有"},{"start":168.62,"end":196.869,"text":"雙就業雙照顧的第一個政見就是為落實性別平等共同分攤育兒責任若雙親都將領有育嬰津貼之育嬰假請滿可以再多請一個月的津貼那這個政見呢也不是台灣賴副總統獨創的而是北歐就發現這樣子一個制度有助於雙親都來請也有助於就是爸爸也來請因為會多一個假那部長您本人支持這個方向嗎"},{"start":197.789,"end":218.854,"text":"我是支持的,因為我覺得這個是對照顧幼兒的這雙性是一種鼓勵跟獎勵。我是覺得多一個月還好。那部長既然支持的話,我想我們不用等賴副院長上任,其實您現在就可以再來規劃。那這是一個就是我今天的第一個想問的,"},{"start":219.934,"end":242.212,"text":"現在我也想問的就是其實我們都有看到育嬰留停的薪資替代率很重要當你長到八成的時候相對薪資比較高的平均薪資比較高的爸爸就會來領那現在呢可是呢我們這種就是投保薪資的天花板是45800他反而是變相懲罰月薪較高的人"},{"start":242.572,"end":259.343,"text":"因為月薪較高的人他最多只能夠領到36640等於是說收入他如果來申請的話那會大跳水那也影響到這群人申請育嬰留停的意願那不知道部長對這個有什麼看法"},{"start":260.143,"end":287.031,"text":"有沒有機會我們來改善這一群人因為我想不管薪資高低都應該要讓他們有一樣的機會來請育嬰假這個是要打開天花板因為這個會牽涉到勞保財務的問題這一題委員妳講的我了解但是我因為這個我們的是比較那個主要那個勞保所以這個如果打開的話勞保財務馬上會受很大的影響所以這個嚴重比較大我是覺得未來可能"},{"start":288.071,"end":317.16,"text":"這個部分就是如果老保的財務有改善的話這部分才能夠來思考當然我記得我們之前的委員也提出照顧基金就是說的那個附帶決議如果部長記得的話那不管財源是什麼我想這是一個我們生育率這麼低我認為這是一個非常重要的改革也希望部長就是能夠花更多的心力不管找學者或研議那因為育嬰留停如果薪資替代率低的話"},{"start":317.72,"end":338.38,"text":"等於是讓大家不敢離開職場那最後我就兩個訴求第一個那請部長是不是可以研議提升育嬰留停今天的比例到九成或全新我想我們生育率這麼低那各種方法至少在國際上聯合國的相關研究這會是一個重要的"},{"start":339.08,"end":363.63,"text":"第二個就是針對薪資超過月頭保薪資上限的勞工是不是能夠提出實質薪資替代率的配套措施當然我們知道財源或是一個問題可是跟我們的生育率比起來我想如何解決財源的問題應該是部長這邊要努力的那這兩個訴求跟今天這個主題非常相關的那部長是不是可以"},{"start":364.15,"end":364.39,"text":"范雲委員"}]}},{"id":"150918","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150918","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839818fbab812d7adee243b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6e9d0f8920134b93d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"丁學忠","委員發言時間":"12:03:24 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12:14:18","影片長度":"00:10:54","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":654,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:14:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:03:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":837,"blocks":[["丁委員學忠：（12時3分）主席好、各位委員好、各位官員好，我請楊主委。"],["主席（吳委員琪銘）：好，請楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員好。"],["丁委員學忠：主委好。剛剛聽到主委都用母語回答，我對主委很敬佩，對自己的文化也很堅持。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員支持。"],["丁委員學忠：我也是臺灣人，我也用我的母語就是臺語。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒問題，聽得懂。"],["丁委員學忠：跟你說你聽得懂啦！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒問題。"],["丁委員學忠：我們今天針對客委會的業務，我們說到客家人，想到主要客家人的地區在我們桃園跟新竹、苗栗，其實我們雲林也有客家人，雖然是全國客家族群最小的，只有兩萬六千多人而已，根據統計，可能只是全國客家人口百分之一多一點點而已。說到我們雲林的客家鄉親，他們都是來自福建的詔安，三百多年前辛苦渡海來到雲林居住下來，演變到現在大部分都住在二崙、崙背、彰化這個地區。就目前調查我們雲林這兩萬多人，二崙的客家人占差不多兩成多的人口數，雖然不是主要的客家地區，但是也有很珍貴的詔安客家文化。我在這裡要請教主委，對少數的詔安文化，我們主委這邊有什麼推廣的一個方向？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：詔安客家話是臺灣客家話當中的少數，所以它是少數中的少數，所以我們認為它特別的珍貴，目前在生活當中還有講的主要是在崙背的一個村，甚至不是全村，但是我們客委會還是全力的支持，像我們在崙背有詔安的客家文化中心，只要他們有要求，我們會以最高的標準來去協助。剛才委員說到二崙的部分，因為他們一直爭取希望成為客家文化重點發展區，根據客委會的調查他們的人口沒有達到比例，但是二崙公所自己用另外的方法調查，他們認為有超過三分之一的比例，因為這個定義上是不一樣。無論如何，二崙鄉公所單位提出詔安客家話相關的案子，我們還是會支持。坦白說，我是二崙的女婿，我太太是永定厝，她是永定人、還不是詔安人，所以我想只要我們雲林有詔安客家相關的活動，不論在哪裡舉辦，我們都很支持。像西螺其實很多，當他們提出要設立館舍時，我們就建議裡面的內容是不是可以展現詔安客家，它要展現詔安客家的話，我們當然就可以補助。"],["丁委員學忠：好，感謝我們主委說明。其實我們詔安族兩萬多人中，現在會說詔安客家話大概剩下九千多個人而已，所以我們語言的傳承是不是可以透過學校、教育單位或民間社團可以來協助我們幼小、孩子、學童，讓他們的母語可以延續下去，可以讓他們繼續學習到母語。像我們兩個上次在聊天的時候，我們就說到我是台西人，你也知道我們台西人有一個海口腔，海口腔叫阿公是「昂公」，而它的驚嘆號是「哇嘎」，這就是它的驚嘆語，還有一句「哇北哇母」，這都是他的驚嘆語……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我知道海口人說的臺語是「沒腔最標準」。"],["丁委員學忠：現在我回去海口的時候，因為時代變遷，比較正統的海口音差不多是70歲以上的長輩說出來，他們還有非常濃厚的海口腔，但60歲以下跟年輕人，他們所說的海口音那個音調就稍微比較不一樣了。所以優良的一個語言的傳統，我希望說可以透過一些文學、文史者能來做紀錄，包括我們詔安族、詔安語言，當然我們原住民的語言也是很美麗、很漂亮啦，這個部分再麻煩一下。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們在崙背的東興國小設立詔安的客語教學資源中心，長年來，那邊提出的需求我們都全力的支持，現在遇到的困難我想跟委員報告，我們每次要找老師都是那幾位，所以老師負擔很重，我們最近也想是不是要來多培養幾位老師，可以推廣出去，這是我們要加強努力的部分，不然每次都是同樣的老師，所有跟詔安相關的東西都是同樣那些人負責，這樣他們的負擔也很重。"],["丁委員學忠：好，感謝主委的回答，我希望說優良的傳統可以繼續延續下去。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝委員關心。"],["丁委員學忠：麻煩楊主委休息，我請邱主委。"],["主席：好，邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：你好。"],["丁委員學忠：好久不見，你好。今天應該有很多我們的立委同事提到馬前總統，他帶著一些青年朋友去大陸進行交流，讓我們的青年、年輕世代可以互相溝通、互相瞭解各地的文化，我覺得這部分感覺是不錯，不知道主委你認為怎麼樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：其實我們每年有很多大學教授或是基金會都在辦類似的文化跟教育交流……"],["丁委員學忠：對。"],["邱主任委員太三：所以私人辦這個活動，讓雙方有進一步瞭解是不錯的事情，但比較重要的是……"],["丁委員學忠：不要用政治交流啦！"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上大家都瞭解，因為中國他們的活動都比較有政治性質……"],["丁委員學忠：對啦。"],["邱主任委員太三：大家要注意啦！"],["丁委員學忠：是不是有政治色彩，其實是見仁見智，看我們用什麼想法、用什麼眼光去看這件事情而已，如果每件事都用好的方式去看，我們的世界可能都會非常的融合。"],["邱主任委員太三：對啊。"],["丁委員學忠：所以有時候我們要用好的想法來面對事情，我身在雲林農業縣，我希望馬總統去大陸可以減少一些政治衝突，讓我們很多的農漁民不要因為政治衝突使他們的產品運輸交流受到阻礙，也希望能夠透過這個交流打開過去中斷的一些農漁產品貿易，這是我們農民目前面對的困擾。我們真的也希望能夠透過任何通路，最好是能夠透過我們政府單位啟動對談機制，不為政治，為我們百姓的生存權，這是第一個要件，所以我拜託邱主委，我相信你是非常明理的人……"],["邱主任委員太三：謝謝委員。"],["丁委員學忠：你一定是對事不會對人，以大眾的利益為目的，看我們是不是能夠重啟溝通的大門，可以先從我們農漁業的經濟交流開始，讓我們的農漁民……不要說我們那邊……我今天真的有帶我們那裡的蒜頭來……"],["邱主任委員太三：這樣喔？"],["丁委員學忠：對啊，我有帶我們那裡的蒜頭來，我想等改天質詢農業部時，我要跟農業部長聊聊，我今天帶的是阿根廷的蒜頭和臺灣的蒜頭，雖然阿根廷的蒜頭真的很乾淨沒錯，我們臺灣的蒜頭經手整理之後，管理方式也很好、很乾淨，但是品質差多少呢？以我們臺灣的蒜頭1瓣就好，我就快吃不完了，光那個辣度、香度就能看出我們的品質有多好，半顆阿根廷的蒜頭比不上我們的1瓣，這品質相對就有差別，這些好的東西是我們臺灣農民、漁民辛辛苦苦養殖出來、種出來的，好的東西，我們當然也希望能夠賣到好價錢，也要有一個好的通路。這個部分拜託主委，我們放開一些政治觀念，以我們百姓的生存權為主，這樣好不好？"],["邱主任委員太三：好，感謝委員的指導。"],["丁委員學忠：感謝主委，感謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝丁學忠委員的質詢。","下一位請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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我直接給你看數字啦2016年的時候2016年的時候是2035嘛"},{"start":149.034,"end":169.208,"text":"過去這8年可能我的data我還沒有看到2023年的數字即使到20212022年的時候即使到20212022年的時候都還是維持那個時候有疫情喔都還是維持在每年2000個小時以上的高檔對這樣子的表現部長覺得滿不滿意這個齁"},{"start":177.706,"end":186.754,"text":"這個工時的部分有加上這個應該是有加上加班工時的部分那因為加班我現在請教你的是對這樣的表現你滿不滿意這個統計這些數字都不是我掰的這個是勞動部2022國際勞動統計這是你們官方的統計我現在的問題很具體對這樣的表現部長覺得滿不滿意"},{"start":201.232,"end":205.915,"text":"總統有沒有履行他的證件?所以你的意思是說對於這樣子的表現你是滿意的?比韓國比日本都來得好來看一看雪漢公使排名啊台灣年年上榜啊"},{"start":231.026,"end":254.22,"text":"2022年有沒有進步 有啊從第4名第5名進步到第6名終於什麼終於被智力給超越了終於被智力給超越了整個亞洲國家裡面比我們長的只有新加坡其他都是什麼哥倫比亞、墨西哥、哥斯大黎加、智力這樣的表現部長滿不滿意"},{"start":256.183,"end":261.906,"text":"以台灣的狀況來講的話台灣的就業市場的狀態是怎麼樣那你就從台灣自己本身的表現來看我現在給你看的是從2016年到2022年有data的階段嘛"},{"start":283.277,"end":297.871,"text":"我剛一直在請教你一個問題你一直在迴避不敢正面回答對於蔡總統執政到目前為止他在2016年所提出來的政見工時要減少的表現你覺得滿不滿意這個問題有這麼難回答嗎我是覺得蔡總統上次確實把工時有減少"},{"start":309.983,"end":321.633,"text":"去年五一之前勞工團體怎麼講的部長可以回去複習一下低薪過勞一樣是臺灣勞動市場的代名詞以縮減的幅度來講"},{"start":328.649,"end":343.58,"text":"你覺得我也不曉得你滿不滿意啦來我們來看一下工時縮減的幅度剛剛你要比南韓比日本嘛我從2016年當作base line到2022年縮減的幅度台灣是最低的欸我們不僅啊工時比人家長"},{"start":349.691,"end":371.462,"text":"我現在你要講縮減的幅度從2016到2022有沒有進步 有阿進步1.3%阿你要不要看一下南韓跟日本的數字一個是6.3一個是5.6阿這個基本的問題部長可能在你的位置上啦回答起來很尷尬還是不敢講真心話"},{"start":373.671,"end":399.885,"text":"這個數字台灣勞工實際的生活每個勞工實際的感受恐怕不是你站在這邊想要幫蔡英文總統聞過是非就可以混得過去了第三點台灣有薪假現在只有19天敬佩莫作部長你覺得台灣的有薪假有沒有再提升的可能性"},{"start":401.75,"end":409.978,"text":"這個問題我們會來討論你現在還要討論喔你520就要新內閣上來沒有 業務單位會把這個問題那麼當作過了8年你現在跟大家講的solution是你要討論要討論什麼現實的數字就擺在那裡啊"},{"start":422.349,"end":448.381,"text":"一樣是低薪過勞啊2016年跟勞工朋友講的承諾到2024年的時候該是拿來檢驗的時候了吧檢驗出來的結果就不堪檢驗嘛一樣是低薪過勞啊這是勞工團體講的啊客觀的數字也符合他們所提出來的聲音啊今天你作為勞動部部長我只希望你能夠很誠懇很誠實的面對現在的問題嘛"},{"start":451.452,"end":465.916,"text":"現在過去這8年為什麼沒有成功哪裡做不好最起碼可以給新的政府一些誠懇的建議嘛而不是像你今天的態度一樣連面對問題的勇氣都沒有黃論解決問題啊部長你覺得我講的有沒有道理"},{"start":474.548,"end":481.173,"text":"我的原則很簡單啦政治人物要選票跟廣大的勞工朋友做出了承諾當你要卸任的時候你的承諾有沒有deliver這就是大家要檢驗的嘛"},{"start":504.158,"end":504.178,"text":"韓國昌"}]}},{"id":"150916","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150916","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839816bcdc1c728c06b525942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6ce8271213e3fc7bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:56:58 - 12:03:14","影片長度":"00:06:16","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":376,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:03:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:56:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":961,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時57分）好，謝謝主席。部長，給你喝一口水，辛苦了。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：陳委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長好，辛苦了。我們快速跟部長討論關於育嬰留停的部分，剛剛好像也有委員提到關於0到6歲的部分，我想要再一次的表明，其實這個0到6歲，我覺得大家的想像跟訴求應該非常非常清楚，有時候是班上一有腸病毒就要休息，而且全班一起休息；或者是家裡有兩個小孩輪流生病，不管照顧的人是父親還是母親，其實也需要輪流休息。","甚至其實最近一期臺灣很重要的親子天下期刊，他們也發現在疫情過後這兩三年，所謂的小烏龜寶寶越來越多，早療的需求越來越多，那我們知道一旦遇到有早療的需求，其實爸爸媽媽請假那個天數就非常的複雜跟難以確定，主要是因為要預約復健治療的時間，還要預約掛號的時間，甚至大家也知道早療目前是卡關，這個我們後續再討論。也就是說為什麼我們希望跟部長討論有沒有什麼樣的誘因跟方法，或者是勞動部這邊怎麼跟企業去討論，目前只能用0到3嘛！那用0到6的好意，我覺得就是我剛剛講的這些訴求的可能性，可不可以請部長簡單回應一下？"],["許部長銘春：我想就是放寬這個方向，我覺得是可以來做研議，也確實在我們的瞭解，職場上的父母親真的是有這方面非常迫切的需求，所以這部分我會請業務單位來做一些討論，但是當然放寬之後，有一些津貼就是會增加啦！"],["陳委員培瑜：對，沒錯、沒錯。"],["許部長銘春：財源的部分，我們如果光以就保的經費是不夠……"],["陳委員培瑜：確實是不夠的。"],["許部長銘春：所以這個部分就是可能院這邊要看看用公務預算，我們要去做一些跨部會的協商……"],["陳委員培瑜：我覺得這個……"],["許部長銘春：政策方向如果是這樣定，那財源上的支持怎麼樣，這個都是要全面更周延的來討論啦！"],["陳委員培瑜：我覺得今天一整個聽下來應該跨黨派的委員都會支持啦！如果只是預算的部分。可是我覺得是勞動部這邊如何願意，就如同部長之前說過，其實臺灣有非常多中小企業，他們可能在面臨這個議題，他們心也想要這樣做，可是資源的部分或者是人力怎麼安排上班的部分，確實我相信也需要非常多勞動部積極的協助。"],["許部長銘春：因為其實今天經濟部、國發會也都在，他們大概也都……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，他們應該都聽到了啦！"],["許部長銘春：他們也都有反映企業界一些憂慮的地方，的確人力的運用是他們最擔心的……"],["陳委員培瑜：最大的困境，我們都知道。"],["許部長銘春：尤其我們的中小企業大概占了97%，這97%裡面5人以下占了80%，所以這個部分包括未來就業的媒合如何來協助，甚至是不是有一些減稅的誘因等等，都還要具體的討論，而且有些東西不是勞動部就可以決定的。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道！我知道！"],["許部長銘春：但是我們可以把一些意見蒐集以後，點出一些可能的方向，請各部會大家一起來集思廣益，看看要怎麼解決問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：甚至是提供更多的誘因給企業方，因為我自己以前開過書店，也是5人以下，我只有兩個正職員工，如果其中一個有育嬰留職停薪的需求，我當然就會有人力撥補上的困境。所以有誘因很重要，然後我們國家整個勞動部在設計相關制度跟企業對話的時候，有把這件事情放進心裡，我覺得這也很重要。就如同之前我在上次的質詢中有跟部長討論到關於彈性工時的部分，我們說可以從國營事業先開始，那個時候部長也說會積極的討論，所以我覺得就是把這件事情往後延伸，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長。最後因為時間有限，我們再談另外一個可能比較少提到的困境，其實有非常多未滿20歲的年輕爸爸媽媽，他們在生了小孩之後，從衛福部的角度來看，雖然有所謂的未滿20歲懷孕服務及後續追蹤輔導計畫，會有社工把這些年輕爸爸媽媽跟他們的小孩所需要的照顧列為所謂社工個案管理，一旦列入所謂的個案管理，才會有地方就業、職訓單位提供就業資源，這個部分我想勞動部應該是清楚的，這個是衛福部的部分。","可是我們來看勞動部的部分，當這些年輕的爸爸媽媽，他們跑來上勞動部主辦的15到29歲職涯諮詢，或是青年職訓專班的時候，或者是勞動部針對15到19歲，沒有升學、沒有就業的弱勢青少年職涯準備計畫，這些都有，我們都看到了，可是一旦這些人，他們是所謂年輕爸爸媽媽、小爸爸小媽媽，他們其實沒有相關育兒資源的補助。我舉一個例子，當他們去參加職訓的課程，在就訓期間，他們的寶寶誰要來照顧？我們發現目前桃園市政府有相關的臨時托育補助，或者是友善育兒的托育補助，也就是說，年輕的爸爸媽去上勞動部或是職訓局所開的職訓課程，但是他們的小孩相關的托育補助，是由勞動部來承擔，來協助他們的，不知道這個部分部長你有什麼看法？有沒有機會從勞動部的角度來推辦，跟各縣市政府討論如何來試辦相關的育兒協助？"],["許部長銘春：這個我們業務單位來評估看看，好不好？"],["陳委員培瑜：好，評估看看的意思是？請再積極一點，不管是幾歲的人生了小孩，他們在參加職訓的課程時，都會有需要托兒、托育的補助。"],["許部長銘春：我們5個分署現在都有教保中心，如果他來參訓的話，其實可以使用我們教保中心的資源。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分我們也稍微有一點保留，這個我們會再跟部長討論，到底這個教保中心的資源是不是真的有照顧到我剛剛說的這些去上勞動部主辦的職訓課程的年輕小爸爸小媽媽，好不好？因為時間有限，我們辦公室之後再跟勞動部來開會。"],["許部長銘春：這個我再請相關人員來研議看看。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員。","接下來請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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來協助,包括"},{"start":179.015,"end":205.322,"text":"甚至是不是有一些減稅的誘因等等這個都還要具體的討論有些東西不是勞動部可以決定但是我們可以把一些意見收集以後那可能點出一些方向請各部會來大家一起來及時廣益看怎麼解決問題然後甚至是提供更多的誘因給企業方因為我自己以前開書店也是5人以下我只有兩個正職員工那如果有一個有育嬰留職停薪的需求那我當然就會有人力撥補上的困境"},{"start":207.202,"end":218.355,"text":"所以我覺得有幼嬰很重要然後我們國家整個勞動部在設計這個相關跟企業對話的時候又把這件事情放進心裡我覺得也很重要就如同之前我在上次的質詢有跟部長討論到關於這個"},{"start":221.547,"end":245.737,"text":"關於彈性工時的部分我們說可以從國營事業先開始嘛那個時候部長也說會積極的討論所以我覺得就是把這件事情往後延伸這樣好不好好那就謝謝部長我們之後時間有些我們再談另外一個我覺得也是另外一個可能比較少提到的困境其實有非常多未滿20歲的年輕爸爸媽媽他們生了小孩之後呢目前我們來看一下從衛福部的角度來看他們有所謂的未滿20歲懷孕服務及後續追蹤輔導計畫"},{"start":250.539,"end":269.097,"text":"會有社工把這些爸爸媽媽年輕爸爸媽媽跟他們小孩所需要的照顧列為所謂社工個案管理那一旦列入所謂的個案管理才會有地方就業執訓單位提供就業資源這個部分我想勞動部應該是清楚的這個是衛福部的部分可是我們來看勞動部當這些年輕的爸爸媽媽他們"},{"start":270.498,"end":295.295,"text":"跑來上勞動部主辦的15到29歲職涯諮詢或是青年執訓專班的時候或者是勞動部還有針對15到19歲沒有升學沒有就業的弱勢青少年職涯準備計畫都有我們都看到了可是一旦這些人他們是所謂年輕爸爸媽媽小爸爸小媽媽他們其實沒有相關的育兒資源的補助例如我舉一個例子他們去參加執訓的課程就訓期間他們的寶寶誰要來照顧"},{"start":298.877,"end":322.683,"text":"我們發現目前我們可以看到桃園市政府他們有相關的臨時托育補助或者是友善育兒的托育補助也就是說年輕的爸爸媽媽去上勞動部或是執訓局所開的執訓課程但是他們的小孩相關的托育補助是由勞動部來承擔來協助他們的不知道這個部分部長這邊你有什麼看法有沒有機會我們從勞動部的角度來推辦跟各縣市政府討論如何來試辦這個相關的育兒協助"},{"start":325.964,"end":326.064,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":349.944,"end":350.685,"text":"陳培瑜委員"}]}},{"id":"150915","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150915","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e938165848398148e656a3daab1acb3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6de903409df43b7935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"11:52:40 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12:03:14","影片長度":"00:10:34","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":634,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:03:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:52:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":797,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（11時52分）主席，請客委會楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：吳委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：主委好。主委，在新北市的外來人口中，客家人的比例就占13.5%，所以在新北市的外來人口中，最多就是我們的客家族群。現在已經4月快到5月，桐花祭又要開始辦了，桐花祭每年所辦的，主委也有去參加過，你看桐花祭的人潮非常地多，也顯現出客家族群的攤位就是來宣導我們客家的文化，這個意義是非常地大。尤其在新北市土城，我的選區，我們大家都知道客家人的義民廟是最大的信仰中心，在土城這邊靠的就是桐花，然後桐花也是象徵我們客家族群的一個文化。每年所編列的補助，在111年補助了新北市70萬、112年補助了80萬，這個經費是不是能夠逐年提升？因為這是有意義的，也是推動我們客家文化的項目之一，請問主委是不是可以來做增加的部分？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：首先，要感謝委員這麼多年來一直對於新北市客家事務有很多的關心，也給我們很多的幫助。土城的部分，確實有很多客家鄉親在那邊，桐花也是土城在地的生態特色，像今年我們補助了80萬，其實桐花祭，我們也希望每一個縣市不是以辦理大的活動為主，而是辦桐花小旅行，讓大家真正到山上去賞花，多做相關的宣傳，讓外來的人口可以到山上去看桐花，然後也來到客家庄，以提升我們的觀光效益。過去大家是動員在地社區的民眾來參加活動，所以沒有帶動觀光的產值。因為土城接近大臺北市地區，目前為止，我們在評估它的成果之後，每一個縣市我們現在一年降到90萬，希望地方利用現有資源來表現，其實他們都辦了非常多的活動，但是新北市的部分單單是土城桐花祭，我們今年就補助到80萬。我們會看內容的需求，如果說有相關內容的調整，也確實認為有需要的時候，客委會並不會設定上限，只要跟我們討論說有這樣更大的需求，我們就可以來增加。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，主委，其實你說我們的桐花祭，在新北市就土城這一場，新北市唯一辦的土城這一場都是人潮最多，所以你看所有的攤位都是在推動我們的客家美食以及一些客家藝品，若你到山上看，整條都是在推動我們客家族群的一些文化、一些客家美食。我是想說，你既然補助新北市，然後你又要涵蓋，我們土城也有幾個客家的社團，由客家的社團下去推動，這樣應該速度會比較快，其實像是閩南人對客家語言也聽不懂，但是他們在那邊的整個交流都是在講客語，我認為這樣是推動客家語言的最好辦法。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：在公共活動當中，使用客家話來帶動公共生活使用客語的氣氛，這對於我們推動客語是很重要的，所以委員一直在關心土城的情況，我們會具體檢討它的內容，看要如何提升，我們會來增加資源，只要有具體的需求，我們一定會針對它所提出的內容，大家可以好好地來討論，甚至客委會主動來跟他們討論，看要如何提升，像是增加資源，那都沒問題。"],["吳委員琪銘：對，客委會一定要主動跟我們在地的客家社團做聯繫，這也可以帶動地方經濟的活絡。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：再來，就是我們過去一直在推動客家語言的認證、分級的考試，112年9月有基礎級的認證，我們要怎樣來推動？因為成效並不是很好。我們要怎樣來推動？因為依客家人的習性，小朋友在家裡還是要靠著他的長輩、他的阿公級的來教導，不然客家語言真的就會慢慢地一直流失，這是客委會要去注重的地方。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，基礎級之所以會辦，是因為初級的部分對於中低年級的學生來說會比較困難，所以我們特別分出基礎級，但是基礎級因為才剛開始辦，所以大家不太瞭解，還有一些家長會認為他直接去考初級就好了，這樣可能就會減少基礎級的報名數字，在宣導的部分我們會加強，中低年級其實比較適合基礎級的認證。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為我從數據來看，成效並不是很好，所以這一點你們一定要來檢討。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，我們會加強宣傳，因為有一部分都直接跑去考初級，這個部分我們會再對學校的學生做溝通。"],["吳委員琪銘：好的，主委先請回。我請陸委會主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：邱主委好。我早上看了很多委員的詢答，大家都是在討論我們的馬前總統在中國大陸、馬習會，我就不再引述，但是我現在最關心的是，現在港澳蒙藏處的事務交流，整個管道有沒有順暢？"],["邱主任委員太三：澳門的部分，因為我們還有派人在那裡運作，香港的部分館也是還在……但是我們只有請僱員在那裡，我們僑委會本身每天有一個小組跟他們用視訊處理緊急的事務，如果不是緊急的公文就送回來國內處理，大概分成兩部分。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為我看你們的預算編列一億三千五百多萬，所以我們在那邊整個……"],["邱主任委員太三：主要是租金，租金算貴的，香港跟澳門我們要租……"],["吳委員琪銘：裡面還有包含租金的部分就對了？還有人事開銷嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：對，整個都在裡面。租金是比較貴的，香港的租金一向比較貴，雖然這幾年有降低，但是基本上約一簽就簽了幾年。"],["吳委員琪銘：我這樣問是代表什麼呢？因為在港澳蒙藏這個地方還是很重要啦！"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["吳委員琪銘：畢竟我們有很多臺灣人在那邊遇到問題也是要拜託公務部門協助他們，所以這個部分我們也是一定要很謹慎去處理。"],["邱主任委員太三：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：但是兩岸的交流還是不能中斷啦！畢竟我們臺灣人在那邊也要確保他們的安全性。"],["邱主任委員太三：對啦！因為香港過去還算是國際金融的中心，雖然這幾年看起來被新加坡或是上海……但是到底我們臺商還是有幾百個人在那裡。第二就是說，過去有一些轉口不適合直接去那邊的，有時候透過香港算是轉口貿易，但是因為這幾年香港變化太大，我們也是都有提醒，包括我們的銀行在那裡設分行的，金管會或是相關的單位都有跟臺商做提醒。"],["吳委員琪銘：現在在香港跟澳門的人數，你們統計起來有多少？"],["邱主任委員太三：一般來說，在香港的大多都是本公司在臺灣，他是有事情才過去，不然就是派幹部在那裡比較多。因為主要本公司在臺灣比較多，香港部分都是做一個辦手續還是協助的地方……"],["吳委員琪銘：都是短暫的居住嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：總共在那裡大概差不多四萬五、四萬六。"],["吳委員琪銘：四萬五、四萬六，在香港嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：香港跟澳門加起來。"],["吳委員琪銘：香港跟澳門嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["吳委員琪銘：所以這個經費，我們還是要保障臺灣人民在那裡的安全性對吧？"],["邱主任委員太三：因為澳門人口比較少，人口才五十幾萬，香港就有七百萬的人。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘召委。接下來請丁學忠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 5案(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(二)大陸委員會\n函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照\n案、(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書\n面報告，請查照案、(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預\n算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案","agenda_id":"1132501_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0434687500000002,"end":3.4397187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.68346875,"end":10.493468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.645343750000002,"end":11.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.282218750000002,"end":12.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.193468750000001,"end":32.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.53221875,"end":36.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.71721875,"end":37.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.96596875,"end":41.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.35784375,"end":43.197218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.243468750000005,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.94221875000001,"end":160.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.96659375,"end":115.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.07596875,"end":117.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.86034375000001,"end":120.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.40659375,"end":162.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.38534375,"end":195.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.28721875000002,"end":202.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.15534375000001,"end":203.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.79659375,"end":204.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.03284375,"end":204.69096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.69096875000002,"end":204.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.70784375000002,"end":204.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.09596875000003,"end":210.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.12034375000002,"end":241.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.17034375000003,"end":268.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.49034375000002,"end":246.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.07346875,"end":299.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.56659375000004,"end":272.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.24159375,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.97096875,"end":276.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.18096875000003,"end":282.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.25409375000004,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.18221875,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.96721875000003,"end":384.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.00471875,"end":357.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.84346875,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.27034375000005,"end":385.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.94534375,"end":394.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.83034375,"end":394.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.36159375,"end":395.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.39534375000005,"end":404.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.87909375000004,"end":405.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.83221875000004,"end":411.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.37596875,"end":411.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.62909375000004,"end":411.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.81471875000005,"end":411.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.96659375,"end":411.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.06721875000005,"end":429.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.58909375,"end":424.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.88409375000003,"end":427.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.12409375000004,"end":435.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.41846875000005,"end":440.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.67096875000004,"end":447.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.74159375000005,"end":449.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.41221875,"end":451.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.62284375,"end":452.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.87159375000005,"end":454.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.20034375,"end":461.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.66409375,"end":457.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.28784375000004,"end":468.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.21534375000005,"end":471.68721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.68721875000006,"end":471.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.78846875000005,"end":473.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.31971875000005,"end":478.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.84221875000003,"end":480.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.8759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、客家委員會提醒客家委員會增加職年,只要有集體需求的時間,客家委員會緊急提出內容,希望客家委員會好好討論,甚至客家委員會主通討論,客家委員會提醒客家委員會增加職年。"},{"start":300.305,"end":304.148,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":328.277,"end":331.099,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":353.374,"end":356.355,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":374.9,"end":382.626,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":404.872,"end":405.732,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":430.549,"end":433.114,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":440.731,"end":455.355,"text":"因為澳門的部分因為我們在那裏還有派人在那裏運作香港的部分我也是在那裏但是我們只有在那裏請顧問在那裏但是我們立法院本身每天有一個小組跟他們用視訊處理緊急的事務不是說緊急的就公文上登過來處理"},{"start":467.499,"end":487.584,"text":"因為我看我們的預算編列一億三千五百多萬所以說在這方面一億三千五百多萬我們在那一邊的主要是租金租金算貴啦香港跟澳門我們要租 裡面還有保險租金的部分就對了那裡是開銷嘛租金是比較貴香港的租金一方面都比較貴雖然這幾年有降"},{"start":494.925,"end":498.606,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":519.79,"end":521.191,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":538.362,"end":539.483,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":568.804,"end":570.211,"text":"現時在香港及澳門,您統計起來人數多少?"},{"start":574.053,"end":596.206,"text":"因為一般來說在香港的大部分都是在台灣本公司在台灣他就有事情這麼過不然就派幹部在那裡比較多因為主要本公司都在台灣比較多香港不然都是做一個辦秋宿還是說合作的那個地方都是辦戰的資助嘛我們總結總共在那裡大概差不多4萬5六個"},{"start":602.43,"end":604.412,"text":"謝謝吳祈明交委那接下來請丁薛忠委員"}]}},{"id":"150914","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150914","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839810d4f434ccd8e9a175942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a69aa7beedfef2e22d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"11:48:57 - 11:56:56","影片長度":"00:07:59","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":479,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:56:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:48:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":913,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（11時49分）請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：李委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，希望這次不會是這一、兩個月內最後一次跟你詢答，但是女性的勞動部部長，無論您在位的時間有多久，我還是希望過去我們長期關注的某一些議題，包括產假的延長、育嬰留職停薪，都應該留下一些東西，我相信你跟我應該都有同感。今天召委排這個議題特別好，特別是前兩天、上一週也是4月4號兒童節，我們都非常清楚知道父母扮演的角色在兒童的成長過程當中是不一樣的，包括有數據研究顯示，爸爸的陪伴對孩子控制自己的情緒、衝動，還有認知、學習能力方面都有幫助，這是爸爸的角色；媽媽的更不用講，我想我們大家都非常清楚。","好，我看到你的書面報告中幾個數據，在110年7月、到113年2月止，你的書面報告提到我們育嬰留職停薪好像成果、成效還不錯，男性110年是19.70%，111年增加到25.25%，女性則略為減少一些。其實最主要的幾個原因是111跟112年我們有提出兩個還不錯的政策，就是我們把育嬰留職停薪從每次至少6個月放寬到30天；另外一個就是我們的經濟支持，薪資替代率可達到八成，這兩個對於男性申請育嬰留職停薪確實有幫助。但是部長，它就停留在這邊了，你知道我要說什麼嘛！這個數據你滿不滿意？我不滿意，因為申請育嬰留職停薪的女性還是占74%，男性還是只有25%。我相信你看到我們在講女性在勞動力上，都覺得男性跟女性應該是平等的，顯然我們還是有很多努力的空間，我們後面還有什麼政策工具要處理？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們現在也是想說如何更彈性，尤其男性的話，其實要他……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我時間不多，你直接跟我說你有什麼政策工具。"],["許部長銘春：我們現在就是大概會讓育嬰留停更彈性，可能日數我們再把它縮短……"],["李委員彥秀：對。"],["許部長銘春：所以現在先用試辦原則，先試試看……"],["李委員彥秀：但是……"],["許部長銘春：如果說看看整個……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你看，家裡有3歲以下的孩子，男性受訪者裡面，申請育嬰留職停薪的大概只有不到10%，女性有將近52%，所以在職場上那個刻板的觀念，男性都認為他是主要家庭經濟支持，應該申請育嬰留職停薪的還是媽媽，我覺得我們要努力的空間還是很大，所以你到底後面要怎麼處理？你還有什麼政策工具？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，就是我剛剛講的，未來當然男主外女主內這種觀念，在性別平等的部分，我們應該讓男性也願意共同來參與育兒……"],["李委員彥秀：那你的工具是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：工具第一個當然就是我們如何在育嬰留停上更有彈性，讓男性更願意來使用；然後再來就是經濟上誘因的支持，現在已經提高到八成，當然也有人說是不是要再提高，雖說這會牽涉到財源的問題，但是我覺得這個都應該來討論。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你在這個位置上也6年的時間，我覺得我們經歷過很多努力，也有很多事情我知道有一定的困難度跟挑戰，但是越挑戰，我們越要努力去做，特別是你是女性的勞動部部長，在這一塊我覺得我們要留下一些東西，不管你520之後還在不在這個位置上，我覺得階段性的任務我們要完成。"],["許部長銘春：我想業務單位都很清楚整個未來大家的期待，還有在這種少子化的情況下，我們如何讓這個職場更友善，我想我們會持續……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我不知道520之後你還在不在，但是男性跟女性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例，我覺得要達到一定的目標，真的懸殊還是太大，我是不滿意，我相信你也不滿意，但我不知道你的政策工具是什麼，我需要你給具體的答復。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["李委員彥秀：第二，我跟林淑芬委員有提出來，就是育嬰留職停薪的制度，我們現在都是以30天為單位，有很多民間團體在陳情，希望以小時為單位，我為什麼這麼說？有時候颱風來了，國小不要去上課，那勞工要上班啊！對不對？所以我的意思是說，有時候用小時來計，育嬰留職停薪的彈性會更多、會更好。我們現在是30天嘛！所以也有很多民間團體說希望以小時為單位來彈性使用育嬰留職停薪的制度，可以讓男性也有更多的誘因去處理，不是說家裡突然有事每次都要媽媽請假，男性也可以去請假，請個半天帶孩子去看病也很好啊！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，現在育嬰留停的津貼，牽涉到津貼的問題，如果用小時可能在核付上會比較麻煩一點。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我覺得這都是技術性的問題啊！"],["許部長銘春：對，還有包括人力的運用……"],["李委員彥秀：我們希望讓女性能夠留在職場上，在職場上男女的平等是一樣的，我覺得我們要去克服這些問題。"],["許部長銘春：是，沒關係，這個部分因為我們有做一些世界各國的研究，我們會再來做研議。"],["李委員彥秀：對，因為你現在在經濟部跟交通部有試辦計畫，但是試辦要試辦多久？你不能一直試辦下去……"],["許部長銘春：沒有、沒有，到年底而已。"],["李委員彥秀：你剛剛回答楊瓊瓔委員說……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，到年底，這個試辦計畫到年底而已。"],["李委員彥秀：到年底，那你就要調整，你就要開始……"],["許部長銘春：我們就是看實務上的問題在哪裡……"],["李委員彥秀：那以後有沒有機會用小時來計？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，現在就是說到底要日還是到小時，這個我們一方面試辦看整個……當然現在試辦是用日啦！但是不是要到小時……"],["李委員彥秀：不然就半天嘛！因為看個病最起碼排個隊也要2、3個小時，半天嘛！"],["許部長銘春：半日、4小時……"],["李委員彥秀：4小時，我覺得那個都可以思考，因為你也是媽媽……"],["許部長銘春：對，我覺得就是我們看如何兼顧，讓企業在人力的調配上，譬如它找替代人力好找啦！有時候只有1個小時，它可能……"],["李委員彥秀：少子化是國安問題，很多人都不敢生啦！"],["許部長銘春：我知道……"],["李委員彥秀：我覺得這塊我們想辦法。"],["許部長銘春：現在就是說我們會去瞭解，研議一套適合臺灣的制度，讓大家願意去生養，然後讓職場這些人力的運用也不會……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我覺得還是要努力，我們現在已經少子女化，在全世界已經倒數了，所以不要說適應臺灣的狀況，我們要想辦法跟上國際潮流，一直說要適應臺灣的狀況，我們現在就已經是倒數，我不知道還要怎麼適應，所以這個還是要努力。剛剛包括楊瓊瓔委員提的0到6歲，要不要放寬到0到7、8歲，我覺得這個也是一個方向……"],["許部長銘春：對，這個都是一個方向。"],["李委員彥秀：然後育嬰留職停薪以小時或半天來計算，我希望這兩塊趕快去研議，好不好？謝謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李彥秀委員。","接下來請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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有時候颱風來了 國小不要去上課"},{"start":314.396,"end":340.561,"text":"那勞工要上班啊對不對所以我的意思是說有時候用小時來計育嬰留職停薪的彈性會更多會更好我們現在是30天嘛所以也有很多民間團體說希望用小時以單位來彈性使用育嬰留職停薪的速度的制度所以讓男性他有更多的誘因去處理不是說家裡突然有事每次都要媽媽請假"},{"start":342.028,"end":356.374,"text":"男性也可以去請假請個半天帶孩子去看病也很好啊因為報告委員現在那個育嬰留停的津貼因為這個牽涉到津貼的問題如果用小時用小時可能在合幅上會比較麻煩一點我覺得部長我覺得"},{"start":357.935,"end":358.396,"text":"對,因為你現在..."},{"start":376.036,"end":386.126,"text":"你現在在經濟部跟交通部你有示範計畫但是示範要示範多久你不能一直示範現在你剛剛回答楊瓊英委員說到年底這個示範計畫到年底到年底那你就要調整你就要開始食物上的問題在哪裡"},{"start":394.053,"end":413.103,"text":"那你們以後會用彈小時來計有沒有機會?報告委員現在就是說到底要日還是到小時?這個我們就是一方面試辦的看這個整個當然現在試辦是用日啦但是是不是要到小時?不然就半天嘛半天嘛因為看個病最起碼也排個隊也要兩三個小時嘛半日四小時"},{"start":415.424,"end":433.355,"text":"我是覺得就是我們看如何兼顧就是讓企業在人力的調配上,譬如他早替代人力,好早啦。有時候你只有一個小時,他可能...手指的話是國安問題,手指的話有很多人不敢洗啦。我覺得這一塊我們想辦法。"},{"start":434.676,"end":459.776,"text":"我們會去了解研議套適合臺灣的一個制度讓這個大家願意去生養然後讓職場的這些人力的運用也不會部長我覺得還是要努力啊國際我們現在已經少子女化在全世界已經倒數了所以不要說以臺灣適應臺灣的狀況我們要想辦法跟上國際潮流一直適應臺灣的我們現在就已經是倒數我不知道還要怎麼適應"},{"start":460.857,"end":460.997,"text":"李彥秀委員"}]}},{"id":"150913","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150913","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981a839651bd08af9883b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6b8d54088b54cead65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"11:39:36 - 11:52:31","影片長度":"00:12:55","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":775,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:52:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:39:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":690,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（11時39分）謝謝召委，有請楊主委。"],["主席：好，請楊主委。"],["高金委員素梅：楊主委好，你在這邊全程用母語在答詢，我給你非常大的肯定。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：高金委員好，感謝委員。"],["高金委員素梅：可是在這邊還是要有一個建議就是，不管是閩南或原民，或是客語的長官，或我們立法委員在這邊用母語質詢的時候，我也同樣地希望我們立法院的轉播系統能夠在第一個時間呈現中文字幕，不僅僅是在院會質詢的時候，也希望在我們委員會質詢的時候能夠有，不知道主委您的看法如何？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我非常贊成，因為根據國家語言發展法，在立法、司法、行政，各個部門都應該有平等使用本國的國家語言的機會，這是國家語言法所規定的，但是相關單位是不是可以落實，像在大院的時候，在委員會也好，在院會也好……"],["高金委員素梅：對，現在院會是有啦！但是委員會沒有。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有即時的翻譯系統，對於落實國家語言發展法應該會有更好的效果。"],["高金委員素梅：因為只有我們現場只有這個翻譯而已嘛，但是事實上立法院的隨機系統裡面有很多人都在看，不見得有這個翻譯機，他也會想要瞭解一下所有的政策，所以你同意我的這樣說法嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我完全同意，像地方政府……"],["高金委員素梅：如果我們大家都有這個共識的話，我們希望也能夠有這樣子。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我想這是一個進步的方向。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝主委。我們請客傳會的陳董事長。董事長，客傳會已經成立四年了，客傳會現在有沒有完善的培育客語傳播人才的制度？另外在所謂的人事的晉升或人員的升遷方面，有沒有一個明確而且透明的制度可以依循？"],["陳董事長邦畛：報告委員，目前四年來，其實所有的……"],["高金委員素梅：董事長，請你速度快一點，針對我的問題直接的說明，好不好？"],["陳董事長邦畛：好的。"],["高金委員素梅：關於人事晉升和人員升遷有沒有明確的、透明化的制度？是什麼樣？你們簡單說明一下。"],["陳董事長邦畛：有，我們有一個制度。"],["高金委員素梅：不是進度，是你們怎麼做？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我們有自己的規定，規定說我們的人事有各種評鑑，並以此提出標準，誰做得比較好……"],["高金委員素梅：有評鑑？"],["陳董事長邦畛：對，有評鑑。"],["高金委員素梅：這個評鑑由誰來評鑑？"],["陳董事長邦畛：由各個部門的主管提出，主管提出來給總經理，總經理再提給董事長，所以董事長跟總經理評分的部分非常少……"],["高金委員素梅：那會不會經過董事會？"],["陳董事長邦畛：不會。"],["高金委員素梅：就直接到董事長這裡？"],["陳董事長邦畛：對。"],["高金委員素梅：OK，所以最後所謂的人事的升遷或者是人事的晉升最後都會在你這邊決策？"],["陳董事長邦畛：對，最後會到這裡。"],["高金委員素梅：你覺得這個評鑑制度公平嗎？大家都同意嗎？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為我們跟員工有很多的討論……"],["高金委員素梅：你們有跟員工討論？"],["陳董事長邦畛：有，有討論。"],["高金委員素梅：就是你們內部裡面，因為我知道現在我們的客傳會只有兩個嘛？第一個是廣播，第二個是網路，對於在公共電視裡面的這些人的晉升也是由您來做最後的決策嗎？還是在公共電視？"],["陳董事長邦畛：會到公共電視，我們沒有管到電視臺……"],["高金委員素梅：因為你們的電視臺……"],["陳董事長邦畛：電視臺不是我們這邊管，我們是管電臺。"],["高金委員素梅：所以電視臺不是你們？"],["陳董事長邦畛：不是。"],["高金委員素梅：只有兩個嘛？一個是廣播，一個是網路……"],["陳董事長邦畛：對，新媒體。"],["高金委員素梅：那有沒有很羨慕原民會有原民臺？"],["陳董事長邦畛：這樣說好了，原民臺現在在新的地方有一個新的基地，有一個長久的地點我非常羨慕。"],["高金委員素梅：很羨慕嘛，對不對？"],["陳董事長邦畛：非常羨慕啊！最好是有一個長久的地點，我們目前的場所……"],["高金委員素梅：你有沒有覺得電視臺好像也應該要回到你們客傳會裡面？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我們尊重大家的決定，因為這不是我們決定的，是客委會跟當時的公共電視大家共同決定的，我們沒有權利去說，沒辦法主導。"],["高金委員素梅：我當然知道啊！那有沒有很羨慕原民臺？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為我們是電臺，如果加一個電視當然很好，不過因為現在這個情況只能這樣子做。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！第二個要問你的是客傳會的經營，我剛剛講過，你們就電臺跟網路媒體，可不可以請董事長簡單扼要的說明一下你們網路媒體的部分怎麼執行？因為我覺得你們的網路媒體坦白說做得比原民臺更好，你可不可以分享一下？"],["陳董事長邦畛：非常感謝委員的支持，我們的網路電臺本來就是電臺，不過電臺的頻道非常多，不是只有單一的頻道而已……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道啊！所以你們把他分流到各個強力的閱聽人的部分，等於就是有更多的人透過不同的網路系統、透過不同的分流的製播系統，他會很全面地讓大家看到或聽到客語的文化跟語言。"],["陳董事長邦畛：是。"],["高金委員素梅：不像原民臺只有在原民臺或者是自己的廣播，所以他的閱聽跟收視就是非常的窄化，所以我們在討論原民臺時，我們也希望他能夠分散到幾個主流的媒體去，而不是專門在一個地方，您就簡單說一下，當然你們在這裡沒有辦法具體的說明，但是我希望你告訴我們你們所謂的網路是怎麼做的，簡單的說明一下。"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為電臺本身透過頻道去收聽……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道，我說網路。"],["陳董事長邦畛：我知道，現在透過網路、透過podcast，尤其是podcast我們今年有大力推動，預計兩年到三年之間……"],["高金委員素梅：有一萬多人的閱聽數。"],["陳董事長邦畛：非常多人，透過podcast來做，同時我們做客語新聞，用網路的方式……"],["高金委員素梅：董事長，我知道，我是說你能不能再技術性的精準一點告訴我們你們怎麼做網路的部分？因為原民臺這個部分其實真的是做的非常弱，這是它的弱項，還是你不太清楚實際的操作，請旁邊的人說明也可以。來，負責網絡的是哪一位？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我們請總經理說明。"],["高金委員素梅：總經理，給你肯定，因為我看到你們網路做得不錯，你們簡單地說一下。"],["莊總經理勝鴻：委員，我簡單說一下現在網路的部分，IG、FB所有的網路平臺，我們用品牌分眾的方式來做，同樣的內容，我們在不同的平臺裡面是用不一樣的內容讓大家知悉，是用這樣的方法，我們還有看SEO的後台數據，年紀不同的分眾就做不同的行銷方式。"],["高金委員素梅：瞭解，因為今天時間有限，請總經理是不是能夠提供一些更清楚的資料，請問你們花多少預算在這上面？"],["莊總經理勝鴻：我們這個預算其實還滿少的，我們主要是人事的預算，在人力上面，人力大概10個人，然後……"],["高金委員素梅：10個人負責整個四百多萬人的網路系統？"],["莊總經理勝鴻：因為我們基金會全部大概只有40個人而已，所以我們大概是10個人左右在負責這個，還有一部分是網路工程師，我們有特別優化這部分。"],["高金委員素梅：好，所以你們就10位嘛，對不對？"],["莊總經理勝鴻：加網路工程師大概是15位。"],["高金委員素梅：15位？好，謝謝，再提供一些更明確的資料給我們知道，好不好？我們希望原民臺也能夠吸取你們這方面的經驗。","再來就是客傳會成立的時候，你們是完全參照原文會的模式，你們的設置條例也是參考原文會的設置條例，實務上面有沒有任何的困境？因為很顯然你們現在跟原民臺的模式是不一樣的，雖然你們的設置條例是抄我們的版本，但是你們現在的經營模式是不一樣的，所以目前有沒有碰到什麼困境？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為這個不是我們去設置的，還是客委會在設置，我們是……"],["高金委員素梅：那你現在是要請主委回答嗎？還是您可以再說明一下？主委在這裡，你可以提供你的看法，主委你來簡單說明一下，謝謝，我剩下一點點時間，請你更精準地來回答我。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：當然我們的學習曲線大概是已經慢慢往上升，到目前為止沒有碰到重大的困難，剛才……"],["高金委員素梅：那有重大的困難是什麼？不是重大的，有困難的地方在哪裡？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有困難的地方其實就是剛剛講的，如果我們的影音能夠整合是最好，影音視都能夠整合是最好的。"],["高金委員素梅：就是能夠像現在原民臺這個部分嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，我們目前是把……剛才總經理也提到了，我們一開始跟客傳會討論設立的時候，我們就知道廣播電臺本身已經在慢慢式微。"],["高金委員素梅：是，沒錯。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：所以做節目的時候，第一個考量是要考量到新媒體釋出的需求，用那個設計方式去做廣播節目。"],["高金委員素梅：主委講得非常好。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，所以一開始做的時候，我們就會設定一定比例的節目能夠到平臺上面去。"],["高金委員素梅：所以這也是你的施政方向，讓客傳會現在可以……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：一開始設立的時候，我們就有這樣的溝通。"],["高金委員素梅：它有一個非常前瞻的方向，對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，但是最大的困難當然就是這樣，我們的語言會限制到我們的市場，比如說我們要做比較年輕的節目的時候，年輕人的客語能力在消退，所以我想我們客傳會非常辛苦，就是它如果要直接提升收聽情況的話，就做老一點的節目，因為老一點的人都會聽客家話……"],["高金委員素梅：年長的人。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：但是如果我們考慮到客語延續的話，就要想辦法做一些年輕的節目，但是年輕的節目收視就會降低，所以現在我們大量的在學習利用新媒體，那當然因為以我們的薪資標準要去吸引到新媒體的高手會有一點困難，但是我想目前為止，我們看是穩定的發展中，也許不如我們想像的那麼快，但是以我們的資源，我認為我們的同仁做得很好。"],["高金委員素梅：主委，我可不可以這樣講，就是你們在現在有限的人力、有限的經費上面，你們已經朝著現在新的潮流去走，而不是固守成規，然後就是一直固守，現在其實我坦白說，我自己身在立法院已經22年了，所謂的設置條例是我們生出來的、原民臺離開公廣集團是我們推動的，但是現在原民臺裡面面臨一個也很大的困境，就是我剛剛說的財力、人力都比你們還多，但是事實上它一直都走不出去，也不想要從前瞻的方向去進行。所以我才會說你們的新媒體做得非常地好，而且你們就只有10個人而已，在有限的經費、有限的精力、有限的預算裡面，你們推動得蠻不錯，所以這個經驗希望能夠提供給原民臺，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員正面的……"],["高金委員素梅：當然今天我的時間有限……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：但是我想因為原民會在16族的語言都要做的時候，其實市場本身就小……"],["高金委員素梅：市場小就要跑到主流的媒體裡面去打開市場……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是，我們現在的方向是這樣。"],["高金委員素梅：而不是把所有的預算裡自己要在裡面去做事情，我覺得這些概念，主委還有董事長剛剛是有的，所以我們希望你們的這個經驗……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：像我們跟商業電視臺也有合作。"],["高金委員素梅：是啊！我就是看到你們有這麼做啊！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：連那個「豪門世家」裡面都有講客家話。"],["高金委員素梅：是啊！所以我就說其實在有限的人力、有限的經費當中，你們反而會開闢出不同的市場。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們的概念就是介入主流。"],["高金委員素梅：對，沒錯！所以今天很重要的是，我除了吸取你們的經驗跟你們在網絡上面的經驗之外，我更希望你們能夠注重一下第一線人力的培訓、晉升，這很重要，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，我們繼續努力。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝高金委員。"],["主席（黃委員捷代）：謝謝高金委員。","再來請吳琪銘召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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有沒有一個明確而且透明的制度可以依循"},{"start":117.103,"end":121.886,"text":"二、人事晉升和人員升遷有沒有明確透明化的制度?"},{"start":139.275,"end":139.936,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":154.517,"end":156.878,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":184.721,"end":185.942,"text":"大家都同意嗎?"},{"start":185.942,"end":192.584,"text":"因為你要跟人工化有當中來討論。是有跟員工討論?"},{"start":192.584,"end":207.491,"text":"有討論。就是你們內部裡面,因為我知道現在我們的各傳會只有兩個嘛,第一個是你們廣播嘛,第二個是網路嘛。那對於這個在公共電視裡面的這些人的晉升,也是您最後決策嗎?"},{"start":208.558,"end":210.799,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":225.647,"end":226.208,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":247.688,"end":248.99,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":270.767,"end":272.289,"text":"二、客家委員會函．為113年度中央政府總預算決議．及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":290.067,"end":291.608,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":306.254,"end":307.175,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":322.392,"end":324.554,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":345.07,"end":348.534,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":364.512,"end":371.114,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":394.298,"end":400.583,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":419.618,"end":424.461,"text":"請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":442.992,"end":453.695,"text":"因為今天時間有限請總經理是不是能夠提供一些比較這個更清楚的一些資料請問你們花多少預算在這上面我們這個預算其實還蠻少的我們只要主要是人事預算人力上面人力大概10個人10個人在負責整個400多萬人的這個網路系統"},{"start":468.616,"end":484.65,"text":"因為我們全部的基金會我們大概只有40個人而已所以我們大概大概6、7個人大概10個人左右負責這個然後還有一部分是我們的那個網路工程師這部分我們有特別就是優化這部分好所以你們就10位嘛對不對"},{"start":485.71,"end":508.161,"text":"加網路工程師大概是15位15位好謝謝再提供一些更明確的資料讓我們知道好不好我們希望原民台也能夠吸取你們這方面的經驗然後再來就是客傳會成立的時候你們是完全參照原文會的模式你們的設置條例也是參考原文會的設置條例實務上面有沒有什麼任何的困境"},{"start":509.814,"end":532.77,"text":"因為很顯然你們現在跟原民台的模式是不一樣雖然你們都是設置條例是超了我們的版本但是你們現在的經營模式是不一樣的所以目前有沒有碰到什麼困境那你現在是要請主委回答嗎還是您可以再說明一下主委在這裡啊主委在這裡啊你可以提供你的看法"},{"start":534.324,"end":558.383,"text":"主委你來簡單說明一下謝謝我剩下一點點時間請你就是可以更精準的來回答我當然我們的學期曲線大概是慢慢已經往上升目前為止沒有碰到重大的困難那有重大的困難是什麼不是重大的有困難的地方在哪裡有困難的地方其實就是說剛剛講的如果我們能夠那個影音能夠整合"},{"start":558.863,"end":562.107,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":576.545,"end":577.246,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":598.087,"end":598.868,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":613.491,"end":634.009,"text":"年輕人客語能力在消退所以我想我們客傳會他們非常辛苦就是說他如果要直接提升收聽的情況的話就做老一點的節目因為老一點的人都會聽客家話但是如果我們考慮到客語的延續的話就要想辦法做一些年輕的節目"},{"start":634.99,"end":637.711,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":657.995,"end":678.311,"text":"所以我可不可以這樣講主委就是說你們在現在有限的人力有限的經費上面你們已經朝著現在新的潮流去走而不是固守成就然後就是一直固守在現在其實我坦白說我自己身為在立法院已經22年了這個所謂的設置條例我們生出來的原民台離開公廣集團我們推動的"},{"start":680.353,"end":681.773,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":708.539,"end":734.536,"text":"當然今天我的時間有限因為原民會他們16組的議員都要做的時候那其實市場它本身就小啦市場小就要跑到主流的媒體裡面去打開市場而不是把所有的預算裡面自己要去在裡面去做事情我覺得這些概念主委還有董事長剛剛是有的所以我們希望你們的這個經驗跟這樣子的"},{"start":736.497,"end":737.237,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":769.997,"end":772.12,"text":"好謝謝高金委員那再來我們請吳啟明交委"}]}},{"id":"150912","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150912","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981afc64c98d7dfedce5942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a67dadbe29f35ae1a95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:32:46 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11:43:00","影片長度":"00:10:14","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":614,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:43:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:32:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":771,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時32分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我們現在要試辦以日為單位的育嬰留職方案，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你的目的是什麼呢？"],["許部長銘春：目的是希望說，因為很多朝野委員都在建議讓我們的育兒生養環境能夠更友善，他們希望說……"],["主席：楊委員，麥克風。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛剛沒錄到是不是？剛剛沒錄到，現在先等一下。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛剛沒錄到是不是？那重新嗎，主席？"],["許部長銘春：好，重來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。","部長，我們要試辦以日為單位的育嬰留停方案，是不是？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你希望的是什麼呢？"],["許部長銘春：我們希望藉由這樣的一個試辦去瞭解現在實務的職場上他們如果這樣推動的話有什麼困難，我們能夠務實去解決……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那會不會增加男性育嬰留停的比例？"],["許部長銘春：也希望提升，對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個很重要嘛，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，這很重要，讓父母親能共同育兒。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們直接討論，本席要請教，你剛剛說了你們從3月份開始跟相關單位，那目前為止，經濟部、交通部、衛福部、勞動部這些會配合你嘛，是不是？會配合試辦是不是？"],["許部長銘春：我們有邀請他們。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有哪幾個？我們政府有幾個？經濟部、交通部？來！"],["許部長銘春：經濟部的國營事業有4家……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：來，再來。"],["許部長銘春：衛福部有1個醫院……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，再來，交通部。"],["許部長銘春：我們勞動部本身……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：勞動部當然你本身一定要呀。"],["許部長銘春：交通部還沒回復。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以目前政府部門就是這3個嘛，經濟部、衛福部、勞動部。人家怎麼不理你呢？扣掉你自己，剩下2個！"],["許部長銘春：沒有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個政府試辦，你自己的人都不挺你呀！為什麼？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們初期想說先……也沒有辦法量很大啦，就是讓他們有自願性的願意來參與，然後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你現在講得這麼保守，我可以給你一個註解，你要試辦這個，你沒有充分去做功課！就誠如剛剛委員在談的，你雞同鴨講！他講的是比例問題，你跟他講的是數量問題，我希望本席待會所問的你不要雞同鴨講的回答，好不好？因為時間很寶貴。","所以本席要請教，我們現在是規劃不少於5天的育嬰留職停薪嗎？是不是？"],["許部長銘春：是，如果更短我們也認為更好啦。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：更短也可以，就是5天以下的？"],["許部長銘春：因為這就是一個原則，訂一個基準而已。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在你們也有發函給民間企業，有沒有民間企業願意要加入？"],["許部長銘春：有、有、有！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有哪一家？"],["許部長銘春：現在全部五十幾家，但是私部門不太方便把名單……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有五十幾家可以配合你，那本席要請教，如果是這樣的成效，本席認為這表示你們的誘因不夠、你的鼓勵方式不夠。假如我今天是老闆，請教你給我什麼誘因？你要我這麼做，你給我什麼誘因？請做說明。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請做說明！你的誘因是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：我們的誘因現在還在討論當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你告訴我，現在你的誘因是什麼？你已經要試辦了呀！"],["許部長銘春：對，還在研議當中，因為我們正在爭取大家的意見。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還在研議當中？你的誘因是什麼？你告訴我！"],["許部長銘春：譬如說他可以免除勞保的負擔、健保的負擔，這個都還在，那是不是還有其他誘因，我們4月2日才找相關的部會做一些討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你預計什麼時候可以告訴我們，你希望企業也跟你一起，大家來加油，那你要提供什麼樣的鼓勵方式、你的誘因？讓不管是國營事業單位、行政部門以及企業界都可以加入，你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在在研議，沒關係，你研議，你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾？"],["許部長銘春：因為現在持續在跟相關的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你告訴我一個時間點，好不好？你告訴我們時間點。"],["許部長銘春：應該大概6月1號之前會把完整的一些誘因、配套……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以換句話說，你在5月底以前會告訴社會大眾你的鼓勵、獎勵措施以及誘因是什麼，是不是？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：5月底，是不是？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，因為你做任何的試辦或政策都是有一定的目標嘛，你的腳程怎麼做嘛。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們現在可以確認一件事情，5月底以前勞動部會將試辦以日為單位的育嬰留停方案告訴社會大眾，關於政府的獎勵是什麼、誘因是什麼，是不是如此？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們拭目以待。","接下來本席要請教，既然你們的目標是希望男性育嬰留停也以日為基準，換句話說，很多人怕說如果留職停薪就回不來了、沒有辦法復職，或者他的職務已經被調整，或者有任何對他不利的方式，讓他復職的條件減低了，所以在這樣的情況之下，我們也想盡了一切辦法。但是我們看到日本，日本除了鼓勵女性，女力嘛！他們努力地推動女力，除了鼓勵女性進入職場之外，對男性育嬰留職也非常的重視，所以他們的育嬰假可以分開來申請，就跟你試辦這個日的意思一樣。如果是一個月，當然可能有很多回不來了，所以沒有辦法去落實。因此日本也開始分開來申請，而且他們還放寬育嬰假的申請次數，日本由原先的2次到4次、由3歲到8歲。那我們呢？我們有沒有做調整？"],["許部長銘春：這個未來都會討論，我們現在試辦……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是未來啊，這個日本已經在執行了！部長，我希望我們在這邊討論可以聽到你的方案……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，你聽我說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是未來！你的未來是多久？"],["許部長銘春：我們用試辦的方式，這個試辦……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：都已經這麼緊張了，你還講未來！所以換句話說，日本目前……"],["許部長銘春：不是，報告委員，我們要找出一個適合臺灣的模式啦。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然是全世界各國來比較嘛，請教日本這個方式你有參考嗎？"],["許部長銘春：不只日本，各國彈性的方式我們都會來參考，做為未來研議的一個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要告訴你，為什麼會提出這個呢？不是他們不願意請育嬰假，而是不敢請，很多人擔心他請了之後能不能順利地復職，或者是會不會變相地被解聘，影響後續的仕途，這些因素都必須在我們整個配套措施裡頭來討論，對不對？拿世界各國，不管是日本或是其他國家，對於我們有利的，而且是成效好的，可以拿出來作檢討嘛，是不是如此？是不是會朝這樣子的一個方向？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題，我告訴你，女性的勞動參與率目前只有51%，女性都很努力在做，為什麼他們的勞動力只有51%？我特別給你點出一個年齡級距，55歲到64歲的女性一旦當了阿嬤，就業率就會下降，你有沒有發現到這個問題？"],["許部長銘春：有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有喔！為什麼？"],["許部長銘春：要照顧啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：照顧誰？"],["許部長銘春：孫子。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：照顧孫子，這一點你答對了！也就是55到64歲的臺灣女性一旦當了阿嬤，就業機率就會下降，下降多少？下降35%到38%，所以表示什麼？阿嬤要照顧孫子連帶牽動的，我們法定是65歲退休，55到64歲正有經驗，他就離職，所以我們的勞動力會受影響。在這樣的情況之下，剛剛本席提出，我們的育嬰假現在是3歲，有沒有考慮把它延長？日本是延長到8歲，將親職假併我們的育嬰假，合併去討論。"],["許部長銘春：這個我們都在考量當中。報告委員，這些相關的部分，其實顧老顧小相關的，還有要有哪些配套，包括托嬰、托老，這些都要一起來考量。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以換句話說，我們可能有機會，現在全世界都朝延後的方向嘛！我們可能有機會從3歲延後嗎？日本是到8歲，有的國家是到6歲，我們有機會去延後嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我們會往這個方向來作研究。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：往這個方向、朝這個方向去努力嘛？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為我也深怕，54歲到65歲是最精華的時期，結果他當了阿嬤就離職，這個對臺灣也是很大的一個傷害。"],["許部長銘春：對，是勞動力的損失啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，勞動力的損失。所以我們也希望在親職津貼跟育嬰留職津貼的這個部分可以去合併、去討論，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望有一個好的方向，而且將3歲延後，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不管是德國的、歐洲地區的6歲，或者是日本的8歲，我們朝這個方向去討論，好不好？延後是會確認，對不對？因為我們的家長很關心。"],["許部長銘春：我們會再討論，但我跟委員說，就是往這個方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：往這個方向喔？"],["許部長銘春：往這個方向來討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","現在開始處理臨時提案，總共有4案，請一併宣讀。","一、","有鑑於勞動部當前所辦理之「增加第6日、第7日產檢假之薪資補助」及「加給2成育嬰留職停薪之投保薪資補助」二項作業，其財源乃來自113年度便將終止的行政院「我國少子女化對策計畫」專案經費規劃。是以，考量自114年度起，該二項作業的經濟支持措施，將會在經費上斷炊，復以當前中央政府是否賡續辦理類同之專案計畫，以及勞動部又是否藉公務預算或基金預算，再維持編列相關之經費支出，迄今亦仍讓外界不清不楚，爰提案限期於二周內向本委員會提交「勞動部114年度辦理『增加第6日、第7日產檢假之薪資補助』及『加給2成育嬰留職停薪之投保薪資補助』作業之經費籌措規劃」書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　陳昭姿　　王育敏　　楊瓊瓔　　邱鎮軍","二、","有鑑於勞動部乃規劃於113年度藉中央基金預算執行2,150萬元經費，藉以辦理行政院「我國少子女化對策計畫」專案內之「鼓勵民間企業參與托育服務─提升雇主辦理托兒設施或措施意願」分工作業。然而，所見勞動部對該專案作業在112年度之執行金額便達2,600萬元，實凸當前行政量能縮水，及挹注民間資源不增反減之不應該情形，爰要求勞動部限期於二周內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交檢討說明及擴大辦理是項業務資源之規劃報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　陳昭姿　　王育敏　　楊瓊瓔　　邱鎮軍","三、","有鑑於行政院刻正辦理107至113年共七年期的「我國少子女化對策計畫」專案作業，並按該專案中「友善職場的育兒措施─彈性工作時間規定」之機關工作分配下，113年度對勞動部乃責成有執行《性別平等工作法》研修之法制作業任務。爰此，考量該法制作業允宜積極辦理，並應向外界釋疑今年度的期程安排，特要求限期於二周內向本委員會提交「勞動部辦理113年度『我國少子女化對策計畫』之法制研修作業期程規劃」書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　陳昭姿　　楊瓊瓔　　王育敏　　邱鎮軍","四、","國內目前有育嬰留停的規定，民眾每一子女滿3歲前得申請育嬰留職停薪，最長可請到2年。但每次申請須不少於6個月，若有少於6個月需求，最短也只能申請1個月，並以2次為限，育嬰留停津貼也只發6個月。","然近年我國出生人口屢創新低，2023年僅剩13.5萬名新生兒，政府亟欲趨緩這樣的趨勢，因此祭出不少育兒補助，但僅僅只靠發錢似乎難見成效，因此政策思考如何讓家長有更多機會，兼顧職場和照顧小孩，才是解決低生育率的根本之道。我國自91年制定性別工作平等法納入育嬰留職停薪規定，98年於就業保險法中增加育嬰留職停薪津貼後，至今多年育嬰留職停薪制度未有更進一步的改革，爰此要求，勞動部、銓敘部、行政院人事行政總處，應儘速研擬增加彈性育嬰假，推動可按日或小時申請的「親職假」或稱彈性育嬰假，並放寬請領子女年齡之限制，以實踐職場和家庭內的性別平等。","提案人：黃秀芳　　林月琴　　王正旭"],["主席：請問第一案行政單位有沒有意見？"],["黃司長維琛：報告主席、各位委員。第一案的部分剛剛有跟委員辦公室那邊溝通，可不可以改成三週內？"],["主席：可以嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：可以。"],["主席：好，那就照文字修正通過。","接下來第二案，請問行政單位有沒有意見？"],["謝司長倩蒨：跟委員報告，因為委員關心企托的部分，我們也非常重視，在113年度就安基金有編列2,902萬，但是因為跟少子女化對策的版本內容有一些不一樣的情形，所以我們是不是做一些文字修正？我來唸一下，可以嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：可以，請您唸我們修正完畢的新版文字。"],["謝司長倩蒨：好，臨時提案第二案修正為：有鑑於勞動部乃規劃於113年度藉就安基金預算執行2,902萬元經費，藉以辦理行政院「我國少子女化對策計畫」專案內之「鼓勵民間企業參與托育服務─提升雇主辦理托兒設施或措施意願」分工作業。惟根據我國少子女化對策計畫112年8月修訂版本內容顯示，該作業之預算數僅編列2,150萬元，爰要求勞動部限期於二週內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交未來精進鼓勵民間企業參與托育業務資源之規劃報告，並與教育部檢討改進少子女化對策計畫內容與預算實際編列不一致情形。以上。"],["主席：請問委員有沒有意見？"],["陳委員菁徽：同意。"],["主席：好，那就照文字修正通過。"],["謝司長倩蒨：謝謝委員。"],["主席：第三案。"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，第三案剛剛跟委員辦公室這邊溝通，同意改成三週。"],["陳委員菁徽：是。"],["主席：請問委員？"],["陳委員菁徽：同意。"],["主席：同意喔，好，那就照文字修正通過。","第四案。"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，這個性別平等工作法，相關規定適用的部分包括軍公教，所以我們建議是不是可以在這邊的要求研擬單位裡面，在勞動部後面增加教育部和國防部兩個單位？"],["主席：好，同意，那就照文字修正通過。"],["黃司長維琛：謝謝委員。"],["主席：4案臨時提案全部處理完畢。","接下來請李彥秀委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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那重新吧"},{"start":39.804,"end":43.946,"text":"我們要試辦以日為單位的育嬰留停方案,是不是?那你希望的是什麼呢?"},{"start":56.711,"end":76.139,"text":"我們希望藉由這樣的一個示範去瞭解說現在食物的職場上他們如果這樣推動的話有什麼困難那會不會增加男性育嬰這個留停的比例也希望提升對這個很重要嘛對這很重要讓父母親的共同點"},{"start":79.56,"end":90.672,"text":"那本期要請教你說剛剛說了你們從3月份開始跟相關單位那目前為止經濟部、交通部、衛福部、勞動部這些會配合你嗎?是不是?"},{"start":91.983,"end":119.992,"text":"經濟部有...我們有邀請他們希望他們國部本能夠...現在政府有幾個?經濟部、國民事業...經濟部的國民事業有4家來然後衛福部有一個醫院然後勞動部本身勞動部當然你本身一定要啊然後呢交通部有嗎?交通部還沒回復所以目前政府部門就是這三個嘛經濟部、衛福部、勞動部人家怎麼不理你呢?"},{"start":121.279,"end":143.374,"text":"你自己剩下兩個一個政府試辦你自己的人怎麼停你啊為什麼因為報告委員我們初期想說先也沒有辦法量很大啦就是先讓他們有自願性的願意來參與啦你現在講的這麼保守我可以給你一個註解你要試辦這個你沒有充分去做功課"},{"start":144.375,"end":162.97,"text":"就從剛剛委員在談的你雞同鴨講他講的是比例問題你跟他講的是數量問題我希望本席待會所問的你不要雞同鴨講的回答好不好因為時間很寶貴那所以本席要請教我們現在是規劃不少於5天的育嬰留子停薪嗎是不是"},{"start":163.51,"end":180.401,"text":"是,但是如果更短我們也認為更好啦。更短也可以,就5天以下的。對,對,因為這個就是一個原則啦。5天以下的。好,來,那現在民間企業你們有發案給他們,有沒有民間企業有願意要加入的?有有有,我們現在全部都"},{"start":181.67,"end":182.591,"text":"我今天是老闆吶。"},{"start":199.451,"end":217.633,"text":"你給我什麼幼嬰請教你讓我這麼做你給我什麼幼嬰請做說明請做說明你的幼嬰是什麼我們的幼嬰現在在討論當中你告訴我現在你的幼嬰是什麼你育嬰要試辦呢還在研議當中因為我們在爭取大家的意見還在研議當中"},{"start":219.537,"end":236.913,"text":"就是...你的誘因是什麼?你告訴我他比如勞健保的這些比如說他可以免除這個勞保的負擔的健保的負擔的這個都還在啦那是不是還有其他誘因我們其實4月2日才找相關的部會有做一些討論"},{"start":237.734,"end":262.142,"text":"你預計什麼時候可以告訴我們你要希望企業也跟你一起大家來加油那你要提供什麼樣的鼓勵方式你的誘因讓不管是國藝事業單位、行政部門以及我們企業界可以加入你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾你現在在研議沒關係你研議你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾"},{"start":264.505,"end":268.227,"text":"呃...因為現在持續在跟...你告訴我一個時間點好不好時間點你告訴我們時間點應該大概..."},{"start":277.387,"end":283.909,"text":"5月底之前會告訴社會大眾你的鼓勵、獎勵、措施、你的誘因是什麼會告訴社會大眾,是不是?5月底"},{"start":296.215,"end":319.183,"text":"是不是?好,因為你做任何的一個不管事辦還是政策都是有一定的你的目標嘛,你的角層怎麼做嘛好,我們現在可以確認一件事情五月底以前勞動部將事辦以日為單位的育嬰停留方案會在五月底以前告訴社會大眾那麼我們的政府獎勵是什麼?優因是什麼?是不是如此?是"},{"start":320.283,"end":336.488,"text":"接下來我們拭目以待接下來本席要請教我們的目標既然男性的育嬰停留的比例也希望在這個以日為基準換句話說很多人怕說我如果留職停薪了我回來回不來了沒有辦法物質"},{"start":337.208,"end":364.67,"text":"或者是我的職務已經被調整的或者是有任何對他不利的方式讓他去復職的這個條件減低了所以在這樣的情況之下我們也想盡了一切辦法但是我們看到日本日本他除了鼓勵女性能夠這個女力他們努力的推動女力鼓勵女性進入職場之外對男性他這個育嬰留職他也非常的重視"},{"start":365.39,"end":391.483,"text":"所以他們把育嬰假可以分開來申請就跟你試辦這個日的意思一樣你如果一個月當然回來可能有很多回不來了所以沒有辦法去落實所以日本他也開始分開來申請而且他還放寬育嬰假的申請次數日本他由原先的兩次到四次由三歲到八歲"},{"start":392.683,"end":406.993,"text":"那我們呢?我們有沒有做調整?不是未來啊!這個日本已經在執行了部長!我希望我們在這邊討論時可以聽到你的方案!不是未來!你的未來是多久?你的未來未來是多久啊?"},{"start":409.995,"end":424.512,"text":"我們用示範的方式就已經這麼緊張了你未來所以換句話說日本目前我們要找出一個適合台灣的模式請教請教當然啦全世界各國來比較嘛那請教日本這個方式你有參考嗎"},{"start":426.038,"end":449.022,"text":"我們會來參考各國不只日本各國的彈性的方式我們都會來參考所以本期要告訴你為什麼會提出這個呢不是他們不願意請育嬰假而是不敢請很多人擔心我請了之後我能不能順利的復職或者是變相的被解聘"},{"start":449.482,"end":452.845,"text":"對於我們有利的而且他們成像好的可以拿出來做檢討嗎是不是如此是不是會朝這樣子的一個方向"},{"start":469.582,"end":489.002,"text":"最後一個議題我告訴你女性的勞動參與率目前只有51%51%那女性都很努力在做為什麼她的勞動率只有51%我特別給你點出一個年齡級距55歲到64歲的女性一旦當了阿嬤她就業率就下降你有沒有發現到這個問題有有齁為什麼"},{"start":492.455,"end":507.023,"text":"要照顧啊 要照顧誰 孫娜 照顧孫娜 欸這一點你答對了齁 你答對了齁 也就是55到64歲的台灣女性一旦當了阿嬤就越機率就越下降 下降多少 下降多少 下降35到38%"},{"start":509.602,"end":516.169,"text":"所以表示什麼阿嬤愛教過孫那連帶牽動的把55到64歲我們法定是65歲退休55到64歲這個正有經驗那他就"},{"start":524.144,"end":536.509,"text":"他就離職所以我們的勞動力會受影響所以在這樣的情況之下剛剛本席提出我們現在是3歲有沒有考慮把它延長日本是延長到8歲那這個親子假並我們的育嬰假合併去討論"},{"start":543.552,"end":553.034,"text":"這個我們都在考量當中嘛,報告委員,這相關的,其實顧老顧小,相關的還有要拿去配套,這個包括也可能將會拖曳啊,拖老啊,這些都一起來。我們有可能有機會從3歲延後,日本是到8歲,有的國家到6歲,我們有機會去延後嗎?是不是?"},{"start":564.497,"end":583.592,"text":"楊瓊瓔"},{"start":583.912,"end":610.584,"text":"親子津貼跟育嬰留子津貼的這個部分可以去合併去討論好不好我們希望有一個好的方向而且將3歲來延後好不好不管是德國的歐洲地區的6歲或者是日本的8歲我們朝這個方向去討論好不好延後延後是會確認嘛對不對因為你的家長關心啊我們會再討論但我跟委員說就是往這個方向往這個方向好謝謝"},{"start":612.346,"end":614.019,"text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔"}]}},{"id":"150911","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150911","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981da95c5dea134e6d63b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6ed7291032b546b1c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"11:29:04 - 11:39:24","影片長度":"00:10:20","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":620,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:39:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:29:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":645,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時29分）謝謝，我們請客委會楊主委。"],["主席：好，請客委會楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝李委員，辛苦了！帶著耳機。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝，這也是很難得的機會。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：今天是國家語言日，這是個很好的示範。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝，這是很難得的機會。其實高雄市也有非常多的客家鄉親，重點是高雄市也有很多的地方像是美濃區，以前我們講美濃鎮……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：六堆。"],["李委員柏毅：有非常大量的客家鄉親，而且美濃很厲害的一點產物是什麼？是校長跟老師，在美濃碰到校長跟老師的機率……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：出產很多的博士，他們有博士學會。"],["李委員柏毅：對，還有博士，所以非常多，對於整個教育、對整個家庭教育來講，是非常非常厲害的一個特色，所以為什麼到美濃我們就會檢討這些家庭的教育是怎麼樣養成的、怎麼會有這些過程、怎麼會產生那麼多的老師、博士、校長，這麼多人才？所以客家的這些文化真的是值得客委會深深地、強力地推廣，不只語言、不只場館，還有它的文化，我們先在這邊對於預算，還有對於這些剛剛報告的所有政策內容的推動，我們都表達支持。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝李委員。"],["李委員柏毅：但是對於場館，在我們開始重視客家文化這20年來，其實客委會也不斷地在補助地方的這些客家文化設施，我以高雄為例好了，高雄市的客家文物館目前為止已經成立有13年，到去年為止，每年訪客人數大概在十九萬三千左右，我盤整一下全國包含做最好的、感覺訪問人數最多的臺東縣這邊可能有到八十幾萬，但是如果說做的最……整個場館幾乎沒有人參訪，一年只有不到300個人參訪的也有。針對場館的內容、參訪的人數，客委會有沒有什麼相關要進行這些改善或者是這些輔導的措施，或者是有什麼想法，跟地方政府來做這些檢討跟聯絡？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：先跟委員報告，我們的場館分成兩類，一類是社區性，在地人自己使用的，這種場館它強調的並不是外來參觀遊客的多寡，它是社區本身在地客家文化研習，還有集會，以及各種的研討這樣子的地方，那就沒有強調旅客的人數，比如說嘉義溪口有一個小小的客家文化館，但它是當地客家人集會的地方，這是一個情況；另外一個情況是，比如它是客家文物館應該要發揮作用，讓更多人來看，確實目前有一部分的成績沒有很好，成績沒有很好我想分為兩大部分，第一個是地方政府自己可以付出的能量有多少、可以編人員嗎？它自己可以編經費嗎？可以經常在那邊辦活動嗎？那如果地方沒有能力的話，人就會比較少；另外一個就是location，像高雄市剛才提到的文物館，位處同盟路，因為那邊是比較少人出入的地方……"],["李委員柏毅：離社區遠一點點。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：並不是熱鬧的地方，所以如果人要特別去的話，就會比較少，最近他們有提出一個改善的方案，我們也跟他們討論當中，我們希望是不是可以思考有更多動態的功用，而不要都是靜態的展示。"],["李委員柏毅：對，場館都已經好了，多一些動態的活動讓多一點人來體會、體驗一下這些客家的活動，這也是好事。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：因為這些場館我們都有補助地方政府。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，這個我們表達支持，但是我們表達對其他場館，如果這些比如你說人數少的部分，它有分靜態或者是地方的人在使用，這個我們還是要深入去瞭解，不要讓場館這樣子浪費。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有，我們會邀請他們共同來討論。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝，你請坐，我請陸委會邱太三主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，全世界都在觀察……我應該說全臺灣，全世界在觀察美日高峰會，全臺灣在觀察馬習會是不是有可能會在同一天，但是同樣的問題，去年馬英九先生、前總統拜訪中國的時候，請問那個時候是誰在拜訪美國？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想基本上是這樣子，因為……"],["李委員柏毅：我這樣表達，主委不要為難你，「歹勢」！"],["邱主任委員太三：不是……"],["李委員柏毅：這其實在我們的觀察都是在做一個算是類比，就是中國方面想要做給全世界看，不是只有小英總統或者不是只有賴清德副總統現在訪問哪裡，臺灣的前總統馬英九現在也在中國訪問，而且充滿感情，這個是做一個對比組給全世界的人看，所以很有可能陸委會目前也都在掌握相關的情資，看馬英九先生在中國方面做什麼？但有一點我幫主委這邊做比較詳細的一些說明，如果是文化交流，不用報陸委會，或者是報陸委會說我要過去就可以了，如果是肩負要溝通什麼責任，是不是要先跟陸委會這邊做一個說明？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上大概一定身分的人，他在退職後的一定年限都要申報，不管他是……"],["李委員柏毅：但是，有沒有溝通的這個功能？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想我不曉得所謂溝通什麼，因為只要涉及到公權力的事項，基本上都只能由政府或政府委託的人來做，所以私人身分是沒有辦法的。"],["李委員柏毅：對，所以他是私人身分啦！但是我也必須要肯定我們高雄市橋頭區的某一些遊客，我們在這邊非常肯定這些遊客，看到馬英九當他自稱馬先生的時候，他大喊馬總統好，在新聞上看到這一幕都對於我們高雄市橋頭區的這位先生表達肯定，可能馬英九先生自己沒有講出來的話，他大聲的喊出馬總統。"],["邱主任委員太三：不要壞了馬英九的計畫。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝主委，你請回，謝謝。","最後，既然行政院主計總處公務預算處的李專委來了，我也請教你一個問題，來，李專委。"],["李專門委員翊柔：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：我經歷過高雄市的氣爆，高雄市氣爆發生的時候，行政院說不編列特別預算給高雄市，所以當下湧入了超過45億的善款來協助高雄市，希望可以對這些災後的重建趕快來付出。高雄市當時的第一預備金，也沒有特別預算，第一預備金災準金的準備是遠遠低於45億的，沒有人知道會發生什麼變故，所以我講快一點，如果預算法第八十三條、第八十四條修正之後，把第八十四條緊急動支的這些內容拿掉的話，請問萬一這些天災發生在7月以後，行政院的第一預備金已經快沒有了，請問這個怎麼樣動支？是不是沒有辦法動支這些預算？"],["李專門委員翊柔：目前我們是用災準金來協助……"],["李委員柏毅：如果已經沒有災準金了，重大事故？"],["李專門委員翊柔：另外，如果是地方的話，也會有特別統籌款的部分來協助。"],["李委員柏毅：所以如果第八十四條這個拿掉，先送到立法院來是要經過立法院審議才可以編列或動支這些預算的話，這些執行上還會有什麼困難？"],["李專門委員翊柔：目前我們的特別預算都會先送特別條例到立法院來。"],["李委員柏毅：沒有，如果遇到重大的緊急事件，或者我另外講一個，軍購是不是都是經過這些特別預算進來？"],["李專門委員翊柔：是，因為軍購的部分是屬於國防重大的部分。"],["李委員柏毅：那如果經過這個，就要先送到立法院來說我要買什麼，這個我想你不用回答，軍購或者是這些重大案件如果先送到立法院會增加相關的一些難度，所以對於第八十三條、第八十四條的修法，還有這些重大災害、重大危難、緊急動支相關的這些內容的話，還是要做一些比較完整的論述，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝李柏毅委員質詢。","下一位我們請高金素梅召委質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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401.174,"text":"如果是監副要溝通什麼的責任是不是要先跟陸委會這邊做一個說明?"},{"start":401.924,"end":426.274,"text":"基本上一定身份的人在退職後的一定年限都要申報但是有沒有溝通的這個功能我不曉得所謂溝通什麼因為基本上只要涉及到公權力的事項基本上都只能由政府委託的人來做所以私人身份是沒有辦法的"},{"start":426.754,"end":441.182,"text":"對,所以他是還是私人身份啦但是我也在要必須要肯定我們高雄市橋頭區的某一些遊客齁我在這邊非常肯定我們這些遊客看到馬英九當他自稱馬先生的時候他大喊馬總統好"},{"start":442.623,"end":468.203,"text":"我們在新聞上看到這一幕都對於我們這個高雄市橋頭區的這位先生表達肯定在可能馬英九先生自己沒有講出來的話那他大聲的喊出馬總統不要壞了馬英九的計畫謝謝主委你請回謝謝最後既然那個行政院主計總處公務預算處的李專委來了那我也請教你一個問題好了來李專委"},{"start":477.675,"end":503.91,"text":"委員好我經歷過高雄市的氣爆那高雄市氣爆發生的時候行政院說了不編列特別預算給高雄市那所以當下湧入了超過45億的善款來協助高雄市希望可以對這些災後的這些重建趕快來復甦高雄市當時的第一預備金"},{"start":505.718,"end":532.556,"text":"也沒有特別預算第一預備金災準金的準備是遠遠低於45億的沒有人知道會發生什麼變故所以我講快一點如果預算法83條、84條修正之後把84條的緊急凍資的這些內容拿掉的話請問萬一這些天災發生在7月以後行政院的第一預備金已經快沒有了請問這個怎麼樣凍資"},{"start":536.434,"end":549.592,"text":"是不是沒有辦法凍結這些預算目前我們是用災準金來協助已經沒有災準金了重大事故也會如果是地方的話也會有特別統籌款的部分來協助"},{"start":550.543,"end":566.836,"text":"所以如果84條這個拿掉先送到立法院來是要經過立法院審議才可以編列或凍結這些預算的話這些執行上還會有什麼困難目前我們的特別預算都會先送特別條例到立法院來"},{"start":568.285,"end":570.286,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":592.219,"end":609.366,"text":"如果軍購或者是這些重大案件如果先送到立法院來會增加相關的一些難度所以對於83條、84條的修法還有這些重大災害、重大危難、緊急動之的相關的這些內容的話還是要做一些比較完整的論述謝謝好 謝謝我們李博裕委員執行那下一位我們請高金素美、札偉"}]}},{"id":"150910","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150910","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981221a569cc74cf48a5942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a621596a229c91d56b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:24:51 - 11:32:39","影片長度":"00:07:48","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":468,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:32:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:24:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":713,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時25分）謝謝主席。有請勞動部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：今天我們討論如何促進男性育嬰留停的比例，根據你們的報告，民國110年之後做了政策的調整，改成最低30天就可以提出申請，換言之是降低門檻，看起來數字上有一些成果，按照勞動部統計，男性申請的比例在110年之後有部分成長，但是這個部分的成長後來好像就停滯不前了，你看110年到111年有成長，可是111年到112年就沒有成長，對不對？按照113年1月的數字資料，比例來講，好像跟112年及111年的比例也沒有差很多，所以政策好像是遇到瓶頸了，部長要不要說明一下？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為出生的人口減少了，不然申請比例是差不多。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在問題不是申請比例差不多嘛，你看你們政策調整後，從110年到111年顯著成長，就算出生率下滑也是緩步下滑，可是這個瓶頸是非常清楚的，請問勞動部有任何措施去突破這個瓶頸嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為出生率掉滿多的，從十三萬多掉到十二萬多。"],["牛委員煦庭：即便出生率下降，男女之間的比例依然很懸殊吧，對不對？你看一下比例的數字是不是一樣1比3接近1比4，這跟出生率沒有關係嘛，比例上沒有變，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：我這邊的數字是男性的比例是有提高。"],["牛委員煦庭：110年到111年有提高嘛，但後面就沒有再提高了嘛。"],["許部長銘春：沒有，112年也提高。"],["牛委員煦庭：我講遇到瓶頸的意思就是它的成長率慢下來了，你們現在是怎麼解讀，你們覺得沒有問題嗎？還是有別的政策方式可以促進這個數字？"],["許部長銘春：所以我們現在要試辦，再讓這個部分的彈性更大，就是我們現在要用試辦的方式來務實瞭解職場上能夠建構的機制。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你們針對這樣的數字的瓶頸，是認為彈性還不夠大，所以才有今天的專案報告，是嗎？"],["許部長銘春：也不是，我們是認為這個要逐步來做，當初是從6個月降到短期30天，包括很多朝野委員都在倡議說建議再更彈性……"],["牛委員煦庭：希望可以再更完善一點。"],["許部長銘春：對，所以我們是一步一步來，因為也怕企業人力的調配會產生困難，我們大概有97%都是中小企業，30人以下……"],["牛委員煦庭：還有微型企業，等一下我們再探討這個問題。"],["許部長銘春：然後微型企業5人以下的占84%，所以……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個本席理解。我再請你看第二張圖表，第二張圖表是公部門的部分，剛剛部長在回答其他委員的詢問時也有提到公部門還有相關的事業機關、附屬單位，應該要起一個帶頭的作用，但是這個數字基本上跟前一張勞動部的統計，在比例上是很類似的，看起來公部門好像沒有起到什麼帶頭作用，部長有沒有什麼話要說？"],["許部長銘春：我們剛剛是在講育嬰留停的試辦，剛剛委員……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，試辦要起帶頭作用，相對來講，在政策落地的過程也要起帶頭作用嘛。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：如果我們公部門的部分沒有辦法先透過哪些方式宣導等等，社會教育也好、解決薪資的問題也好，或是避免升遷考績的問題，公部門也要做示範嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：公部門基於法規執行的一體性，照理來講應該是不會有問題，不會有所謂的隱形天花板，對不對？企業有可能說我允許你育嬰留停，但相對地以後你的升遷機會就變小了，然後你可能也拿它沒有辦法，可是公部門受到大家的監督，所以比較不會有這樣的狀況。但即便如此，好像這個比例還是差不多，對不對？是不是在帶頭作用的方面也遇到了瓶頸呢？"],["許部長銘春：公部門的部分，因為銓敘部在這邊嘛，是不是……"],["牛委員煦庭：我跟你講，我剛剛都看了，就是按法論法、照表操課，但顯然是卡住、卡關了嘛，對不對？我們今天要討論的問題是這個嘛。部長，原因是什麼？不管是私部門也好、公部門也好，為什麼到了最後好像就卡在1比3、1比4左右的比例？以你們的瞭解，你們有沒有探詢過學者專家等等的意見？"],["許部長銘春：其實剛剛銓敘部的司長有提到是整個給付財源的部分，這方面會遇到……"],["牛委員煦庭：補充一下沒有關係。"],["王司長永大：跟委員報告，公部門公務人員這個部分，從107年男性留停的比例大概是12%左右，112年已經到18%，也就是就男性本身大概是成長50%，就男女性的占比，是從……"],["牛委員煦庭：這些剛剛都講過了！我的意思是說110到111有成長，這個我們拍拍手，可是111到112的比例沒有變太多。"],["王司長永大：那個應該就是少子化降下來的，就是生育的人口已經變少了，就整體來說……"],["牛委員煦庭：我說的是男女的比例啦，我跟你講的不是案量的數字，案量的數字會隨著出生率變化，這我們理解，可是男女比例沒有變啦！好不好？"],["王司長永大：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：這我要提醒啦，你們還要再多做一下研究，如果你說是因為我們的門檻跟彈性還是不夠，大家沒有辦法充分跑位，那你做修正，這也是一種說法，我們也可以理解，大家就滾動式調整就好，但是不要話講得不清楚。","第二個，我要請勞動部去做調查，照理來講你們應該跟很多的學者專家等等有一些聯繫，除了我們剛剛講到為什麼遇到瓶頸需要更明確的說法之外，第二個本席擔心的是，我們會不會因為一直把門檻降低、把彈性增加，反而回過頭來壓縮了女性育嬰留停的長度，也就是說，現在雇主講：反正你老公也可以請啊，那你就不要請這麼久。有沒有這樣的狀況？你們有沒有針對這個可能的問題去做研究調查，部長？"],["許部長銘春：這個我們再進一步來瞭解看看。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個你進一步來瞭解，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席在最後一點時間做一點政策建議，我們現在看的都是講法規面、假期怎麼樣來做設定，這當然很好！那我提醒你們要有點科技的概念，疫情之後給全世界最大的啟示就是工作不一定要進辦公室呀！遠距工作的實際應用是什麼？我們的政府機關有沒有？比如說你講公部門可不可以帶頭示範？公部門在請育嬰留停的時候，你用遠距工作的方式走出一套新的辦法，你如何鼓勵願意試辦遠距工作而在這中間找到平衡？推動政策的時候有沒有一些鼓勵的措施？"],["許部長銘春：我先講私部門，其實私部門只要勞雇雙方合意就可以了。"],["牛委員煦庭：有講好就好嘛！"],["許部長銘春：公部門好像已經有了。"],["王司長永大：公部門我們在疫情期間其實都有一直在試辦，現在各機關……"],["牛委員煦庭：其實很多都可以。"],["王司長永大：對！他的資訊系統有辦法……"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在要的就是你把這個東西跟育嬰留停的概念結合嘛，如果有育兒需求而有這個方式的話，相對來講他可能就不需要走留停嘛，做遠距工作可不可以？他是不是就解決了薪資落差的問題，對不對？"],["王司長永大：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：剛剛部長也有講私人有一些協商的結果，好的案例要彰顯出來、要告訴社會有這樣子的方向，這也都是勞動部的管轄範圍，你才有辦法推動這件事情，讓不管男性或女性都在育嬰跟工作方面取得平衡，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：可以。"],["牛委員煦庭：這部分我也請你會後要提供完善的說明，包含我剛剛講研究調查是最重要的，請勞動部配合辦理，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝，辛苦了。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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對不對"},{"start":120.028,"end":125.23,"text":"你們覺得沒有問題嗎?還是說還有別的政策方式可以促進這樣的數字?所以你們針對這樣數字的一個瓶頸的狀況是講說彈性還不夠大所以才有了今天的專案報告是嗎?"},{"start":142.524,"end":168.013,"text":"也不是,我們是認為說這個是逐步嘛當初是從6個月降到短期30天那包括很多朝野委員都在倡議說希望可以再更完善一點對,所以我們其實是一步一步來啦因為也怕對那個企業的人力的調配上會產生困難因為我們大概有97%的都是中小企業30人以下還有微型企業等一下我們再探討這個問題5人以下占了8%所以我已經去考"},{"start":171.474,"end":197.866,"text":"我再請你看第二張圖表今天的第二張圖表當然就講的是公部門剛剛部長在回答其他委員詢問的時候也有講說公部門還有相關的這些事業機關附屬單位應該要起一個帶頭的作用但是這個數字基本上跟你前一張也就是這個勞動部的統計其實在比例上來講是很類似的看起來公部門好像沒有起到什麼帶頭作用部長有沒有什麼話要說我們剛剛是在講說那個育嬰留停育嬰留停的事辦剛剛委員"},{"start":201.267,"end":222.875,"text":"事辦你要起帶頭作用相對來講在政策落地的過程你也要起帶頭作用如果我們公部門這部分先沒有辦法說我透過哪些的方式宣導等等社會教育也好薪資這個問題解決掉也好或者是避免掉這個升遷考機的問題你公部門也要做事辦嘛那照理來講公部門基於法規執行的一體性照理來講應該是不會有"},{"start":224.155,"end":226.057,"text":"但即便如此好像這個比例還是差不多對不對是不是我們在帶頭作用的方面也遇到了瓶頸呢"},{"start":244.83,"end":249.352,"text":"為什麼到最後好像就卡在1比3、1比4左右這樣的比例"},{"start":268.001,"end":295.744,"text":"以你們的了解你們有沒有去探詢過學者專家的意見啊以及等等剛剛齁其實剛剛全局部這邊有講到師長齁有講到說其實他們的是等於裁員的部分齁幾副的裁員啊 趕快補充一下沒有關係啊是有這方面會遇到 跟我們報告一下齁那個公部門公務人員這一塊從107人107人大概那個藍性留停的比例大概12%左右對"},{"start":297.225,"end":321.067,"text":"那到那個112年已經到18%就是說就男性本身大概成長50%啦那就男女性的那個占比是從這些剛剛都講過了我的意思是說1110到11有成長這個我們拍拍手可是111到112那比例沒有變太多那個應該就是少子化降下來的就是說生意的人口已經變少了變少了"},{"start":321.787,"end":322.407,"text":"我要請勞動部去做調查"},{"start":348.436,"end":374.626,"text":"你們照理來講應該跟很多的學者專家跟很多等等有一些聯繫這個除了我們剛剛講的一個為什麼遇到瓶頸需要更明確的說法之外第二個本席擔心的是我們會不會因為一直把門檻降低把彈性增加你反而回過頭來壓縮了女性啊育嬰留停的長度也就是說現在僱主講啊反正你老公也可以請啊對那你就不要請這麼久有沒有這樣的狀況你們有沒有針對這個可能的問題去做研究調查部長"},{"start":377.792,"end":394.106,"text":"這個我們再進一步來瞭解看看這個你進一步來瞭解好不好然後本期在最後一點時間做一點政策建議啦我們現在都看的都是講法規面假期怎麼來做設定這當然很好但我提醒我們要有點科技的概念疫情之後給全世界最大的啟示就是工作不一定要進辦公室啊"},{"start":395.607,"end":420.781,"text":"遠距工作的實際應用是什麼我們的政府機關有沒有比如說你講公部門可不可以帶頭示範我公部門在處理這個在請育嬰留停的時候我用遠距工作的方式走出一套新的辦法我如何鼓勵願意示範遠距工作來在這個中間中找到平衡也可以讓這個東西政策的時候有沒有一些鼓勵的措施我先講私部門其實私部門他們只要牢固雙方有講好就可以了公部門好像已經有了"},{"start":421.389,"end":439.706,"text":"公部門我們在那個疫情期間其實都有一直在示範現在各機關其實很多都可以對他的資訊系統有辦法配合我現在要的就是說你把這個東西跟育嬰留停的概念結合嘛如果育兒需求相對男女那時候那他可能就不需要走留停嘛又做遠距工作可不可以他是不是就解決了薪資的落差的問題"},{"start":440.527,"end":440.667,"text":"謝謝牛煦庭委員"}]}},{"id":"150909","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150909","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981862082ffe545c2ea3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a623f4da59ad76bcb95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:18:13 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11:28:45","影片長度":"00:10:32","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":632,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:28:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:18:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":585,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時18分）主席，請陸委會邱主委。"],["主席：請陸委會邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：主委好。我想請教主委，從今年2月開始，有關觀光署停止組團赴大陸，也發生了金門撞船事件，以及陸籍船艦、飛機繞臺，無人機侵入金門，各種事端接連不斷地發生，兩岸關係也越來越緊張，敵意螺旋不斷地上升，如果以10分作為評分標準的話，請問主委，你認為現在兩岸關係的緊張程度是幾分？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上，沒有什麼太大的變化，假設我們用你剛剛講10分來看，從過去2016年到現在大概都在5分到6分之間，最近可能到6.1、6.2，主要的原因是金門撞船事件其實就是一個偶發的意外事件而已，過去這種事情的處理，他們本來就有很多處理的經驗和模式。"],["許委員宇甄：不過到現在都還沒解決。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，主要的原因當然是因為剛好碰到我們選後到520之前，委員大概也可以理解，對岸可能在520之後才會有比較明確的基調。"],["許委員宇甄：從主委剛剛的回答，其實我們應該也看得出來，現在的緊張程度就是一直在提升，所以兩岸關係越來越緊張，是不是更應該要交流、要對話？尤其是中美關係也很緊張，2023年6月的時候，美國國務卿布林肯訪中；2023年7月的時候，共和黨的季辛吉國務卿也在大陸進行私人訪問，會見習近平時被當作老朋友般的對待，當時外媒認為此舉是在打臉民主黨的美國總統拜登，所以邱主委會不會擔心前總統馬英九會見習近平等於是在打臉蔡英文總統？"],["邱主任委員太三：我倒不會認為是這樣子……"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：第一個，因為馬總統是私人的身分，他的定調是在文化跟教育的交流，所以應該就是單純的文化交流。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，謝謝。我想邱主委也不認為是這樣，因為現在沒有人能跟習近平溝通跟會面，而馬前總統可以利用這樣的時間去跟對岸溝通、對話，對於我們兩岸的緊張程度來說，我覺得也不失為一件好事，我想兩岸的溝通交流是一定要的，也有辦法有效降低兩岸的緊張關係，所以我想這個部分可能也不要再有意識型態的產生，希望能夠把這個定調為兩岸的溝通跟交流。"],["邱主任委員太三：恐怕不是溝通吧！他就是一個文化的交流，跟政治應該不要有……"],["許委員宇甄：我想對話相對重要嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：反而是大家不要給他太多的政治解讀跟期待。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我也覺得不要有政治因素。"],["邱主任委員太三：不要給他過度的期待，因為馬總統是用私人身分去。"],["許委員宇甄：我想兩岸的對話跟溝通一直是大家都非常需要的，這對我們的兩岸關係絕對是正面的交流。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，機制上應該是希望雙方的政府來做交流。"],["許委員宇甄：我們期待這次馬前總統的溝通跟對話能夠有更正面的影響，謝謝邱主委。","接下來我們請楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：主委好，請問一下主委，我們客委會為了結合衛福部長照十年計畫2.0政策，有70個客家文化重點發展區，還有21個非客家文化重點發展區都有設置伯公照護站，到112年8月底已經核定12個縣市的伯公照護站，總共有473個，請問伯公照護站在這次0403的大地震中有沒有發揮功效，去關心我們的客家長者？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：其實伯公照護站就是照護據點，這次地震之後，我們有透過所接觸到的社團、各種管道，都有去問大家有沒有什麼需要協助、需要幫忙的，目前我們沒有接到這樣的要求。另外，伯公照護站在各縣市是由他們的衛福部門直接管理，我們是就其中客家文化、語言加值的部分補助縣市的客家主責單位來負責，所以基本上我們是就內容的部分、content的部分，營建的部分我們……"],["許委員宇甄：對，我想災後可以利用伯公照護站去關懷我們的長者，一定對我們客委會的形象也有很好的提升。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是，謝謝，這是應該的。"],["許委員宇甄：另外再請教一下主委，我們在去年8月11號到10月15號舉辦2023年的世界客家博覽會，客委會原來預估可以吸引600萬人次，其中觀光客大概有20萬人次，會創造200億的經濟效益。舉辦過後，陳建仁院長在10月19號的院會有說參觀人數已經超過1,100萬人次，經濟效益是200億元，不過我根據你們剛剛報告提到的，還有桃園市客家局也有特別提到，經濟效益已經達到385億元，請問一下，到底經濟效益是多少？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，跟委員報告，當時因為短期內還沒計算完整，後來我們根據外貿協會對於會展產業的乘數效應，還有觀光局對於旅客、遊客在旅行期間的平均消費，有兩種模型，我們採這兩種模型去評估……"],["許委員宇甄：所以就是385億元，是嗎？就是385億元的經濟效益，是嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們後來跟桃園市政府就兩種模型去討論，目前調整出來的是385億元。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，所以這次中央政府客委會跟我們桃園市政府客家局所舉辦的客博會，其實當初總共只花17億元，15億是客家……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：15億。"],["許委員宇甄：好，15億元。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：本會補助12億，市政府出3億。"],["許委員宇甄：然後桃園市政府是2億，對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：3億，我們這邊12億，他們那邊3億元。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，所以總共是15億元。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，15億。"],["許委員宇甄：可以創造385億元的經濟效益，所以我覺得是不是每隔一段時間就應該要舉辦一次以活絡經濟，還有宣導客家文化？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們內部有開過會，針對這次博覽會整體進行檢討，對於將來再舉辦的可能性正在評估，目前專家學者及各界的意見，我們還在整理當中，整理到一個程度，我們會對不同的項目提供進一步的詳細資料。"],["許委員宇甄：我想這麼成功的……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：大方向上是固定一段時間應該就要舉辦。"],["許委員宇甄：是，我想不管是中央或是桃園市政府，對於這次客博會真的都付了非常多心力，既然成效好，我希望客委會這邊能好好研究一下未來是不是持續性辦理。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：全世界大概只有我們臺灣有資格來辦世界客家博覽會，我們會往這個方向來努力。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，我們期待客委會繼續來辦理。另外再請教一下，剛剛主委有特別提到你們在這個禮拜會邀請田馥甄等相關的客家歌手，舉辦一個H3 RIZZ UP的售票演唱會，這是希望針客家語言的部分做提升所辦理的一個客家相關的演唱會，請問這一場演唱會的預算是多少？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們是1,500萬。"],["許委員宇甄：因為這次辦在北流，根據現場的位置……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：實際上承商需要的支出其實超過這個預算很多，因為它可以賣票，我們是用這種方式來辦理，裡面大概35%是客語歌曲，因為這些歌星的fans不一定全部都聽客語，他們可能不習慣，所有的fans是從各地來的，所以我們用三分之一……"],["許委員宇甄：可是北流的座位大概只有3,134席，所以等於說我們……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們有到各地去找場地，各地都有各自的檔期，最後找到北流是很適合的場地。"],["許委員宇甄：我只是覺得我們花了1,500萬元，但那個場地只有3,134席，也就是平均大概要補助5,000元給每一個觀眾，我覺得既然要推廣客語文化，有這麼好的歌手、都是頂尖的歌手，希望下次找一個場地大一點的，否則的話，事實上只有三千多人能參加，而且只有35%是客語，我們既然要提升客家語言，也希望能有這樣的一個方式讓更多人來參與、更瞭解客語。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。我們花了很多時間去爭取這些歌手來演出，因為過去他們的經紀人認為雖然他是客家人……"],["許委員宇甄：對，所以希望能有更多人來參與。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：雖然他是客家人，但是他的經紀人認為唱客家歌曲，這個市場比較小，我們的活動是經過許多年去跟他們接觸、溝通，所以才有這樣的成果，確實這個比較高，但是以突破商業的歌唱市場來說，這是一個重要的突破，我希望後續……"],["許委員宇甄：本席是希望客委會下次可以提早規劃，找更好的場地、更多的場地，讓更多人瞭解客語，好嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：應該的。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的發言。","下一位有請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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幾十個客家委員會的政體有做檢討要對於將來判的可能性都有偵測的評估目前已經非常好在"},{"start":438.429,"end":444.276,"text":"國家本人的意見在整理當中。 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我們請許部長請許部長李委好部長好 這個今天的這個題目是叫做這個試辦這個育嬰的這個彈性假還有這個提高男性這個申請這個留置停薪那我看了一下其實幼嬰真的還是不夠啦"},{"start":30.941,"end":55.477,"text":"請教一下部長,過去這三年從110、111到112男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例大概是多少嗎?大概增加了...不是增加啦,因為你們之前的接受低啦申請的25%啦大概都是25%?過去三年男性申請這個留職停薪的比例大概都只有四分之一的25%左右而已啦"},{"start":56.417,"end":70.15,"text":"以前只有17最近有增加25還是很低啊我們希望說就是這個爸媽都能夠來照顧小孩那你知道為什麼這個男性申請這個留職天性的比例比較低嗎"},{"start":72.279,"end":91.549,"text":"可能第一個經濟藝術的考量還有升遷、職場的技能是不是沒有錯部長講到重點第一個就是說按照目前這個男性的薪水還是稍微高一點點那如果他申請這個留職停薪的話第一個是經濟壓力"},{"start":92.609,"end":121.103,"text":"第二個就是說趴回去之後工作內容或是工作位置也改變了影響升遷或是考積所以這個影響到說男性來申請這個育嬰的留職提薪那再請教一下部長就是說你現在這個試辦這個本來是一個月那現在試辦是5天到7天彈性的這個育嬰假然後你說這個單天更歡迎是不是單天更歡迎你這個齁都是道德勸說啦"},{"start":122.784,"end":135.716,"text":"實際上這個如果說沒有這個誘因來講的話這一般的企業這個很難很難會用單天來算那5到7天也是示範而已啊對不對那我先問一下這個5到7天示範是5月開始嗎"},{"start":136.647,"end":156.067,"text":"報告委員本來原定5月啦但是因為有很多委員認為說我們這個要再不是叫我們配套要更完整所以我可能會稍微再延後一些被延後喔對會再收集意見那延後大概是哪個時候因為我們在收集積極收集意見當中收集讓整個總是要有個期限啊"},{"start":157.719,"end":184.667,"text":"我看最慢最慢就是6月吧6月最慢最慢就展演一個月展演一個月到6月因為我還在收集意見因為主要是為什麼用示範因為經濟部、國安會今天也都在因為他們也反映說僱主可能有一些困難不過我們現在這個示範出去現在我請教一下這個你有發函就是說給我們這一個公部門嘛公部門現在有回應的情況怎麼樣有現在就是那個我記得"},{"start":186.558,"end":195.548,"text":"4家國營事業的機構有哪4家才4家國營才4家而已喔臺電流水都有"},{"start":199.212,"end":219.56,"text":"唐電油水4家國營事業機構才4家而已喔哇那你這樣子連我們這個公營事業都不買單了我們全部現在報名的是63家啦表達有意願的那我是說公部門部分國營事業就是目前有4家國營所以63家裡面才4家是公部門喔"},{"start":220.8,"end":234.971,"text":"包括我們勞動部啊,勞動部自己還有包括我們所屬,像勞保局啦,發展署啦。都是只有勞動部的系統而已喔?我們還在...所以你看齁,連我們自己公部門都不買單了耶。我們發言出去還陸續啦,我是說現在到目前為止回復的。還要繼續他們,我們在鼓勵他們各種公學會。所以你看齁,這油電糖水世家公營試驗齁,這個要來示範而已。"},{"start":249.762,"end":255.849,"text":"其他的是怎樣?是你們有給他們問卷調查但是回覆都沒有意願嗎?我們就是有發函給他們邀請他們能夠...那問題是出在哪裡?那為什麼這些我們所有這麼多的這個公營事業這個沒有共襄盛舉勒?這個是很大的問題勒?"},{"start":269.961,"end":295.276,"text":"我們其實鼓勵像經濟部、交通部、衛福部所屬的這些機構能夠一起來參與有這麼多如果我們公家機關都不能帶頭做示範作用的話對於民間企業來講報告委員因為我們這3月15日發函那目前這個回復陸陸續續在回復啦不是說現在63家後面就沒有了是啊那我在聽那比例公家機關太少了啊"},{"start":295.936,"end":321.442,"text":"我們還是持續在鼓勵你們來這個我認為我們公民家機關真的要做示範作用如果你如果說我們公民家機關公營事業不做示範作用的話你如何叫民間企業來做啊所以我看到這個公部門跟國營事業其實應該要帶頭做起啊對啊所以我看到這個成績其實我也你這樣講我嚇一跳怎麼比例這麼低其實我也不滿意啦部長委我們3月15日發函到現在還不到一個月"},{"start":322.102,"end":327.245,"text":"好陸陸續續在回復啦第二個齁我再請教一下齁這個我們賴清德總統當選人齁他在這個參選的時候提到說0到6歲國家一起養2.0齁啊其中有一個是說齁這個彈性的育嬰假制度納到0到6歲0到6歲但是我們現在齁這個育嬰假是不是在3歲前啊"},{"start":343.416,"end":371.166,"text":"能夠申請 育嬰留停啊 育嬰留停的制度 因為我看看我們這個賴慶德總統當選他提到說這一個這個育嬰的這個留停他希望說能夠0到6歲0到6歲 育嬰沒有報告我也有去調相關的沒有嗎 重痛的證件但是還沒講到這麼細 沒講到這麼細我是希望說是不是你們現在是3歲那如果說延長到6歲有什麼困難嗎"},{"start":373.065,"end":400.177,"text":"報告委所以我們現在就是說先示範齁那包括說這個示範這兩個是不一樣的啊你們是示範是於就是說本來是一個月現在可以變五天到七天年齡放寬這可以討論啊放寬年齡啊對然後這個就是牽涉到修法當然牽涉到修法牽涉到裁員還有牽涉到企業的人你們有沒有做過這個相關這個相關那個思考就是說如果放寬到0到6歲有沒有去思考過這個方向"},{"start":401.197,"end":425.436,"text":"一直有在做這樣的討論嗎?現在就是說我看我們的總統當選人是希望說這個國家一起養那其實從零到三歲放寬到六歲我相信這個方向是一致的啦我的意思是說不要說只有在留這個只有在停留在討論這個階段有沒有比較具體的做法啦你們有沒有想要推動啦"},{"start":426.653,"end":426.953,"text":"李坤城議員"}]}},{"id":"150907","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150907","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981f30038bf1ea5877d3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a643cbf47c3bf192685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:06:59 - 11:17:54","影片長度":"00:10:55","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":655,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:17:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T11:06:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":528,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時6分）謝謝主席。本席首先請行政院主計總處公務預算處的李專委，有到嗎？"],["主席：請李專委。"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝。"],["李專門委員翊柔：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：李專委，本席想請教您，就我們預算法現行第八十四條有一個但書，就是「為因應情勢之緊急需要，得先支付其一部」，請問「先支付其一部」是可以支付30%、50%還是80%？有沒有規定？"],["李專門委員翊柔：這部分並沒有特別規定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，再請問「先支付其一部」有沒有規定它的用途？"],["李專門委員翊柔：它還是要符合我們預算編列的內容。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我時間有限，有沒有規定用途？沒有嘛！"],["李專門委員翊柔：要符合我們編的特別預算的內容。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，內容，但是用途沒有特別講嘛？"],["李專門委員翊柔：用途就是要用在特別預算編列的內容。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，比如經濟或是重大災害，但是重大災害像我們之前的新冠疫情，可能如果需要用的話，它沒有講什麼內容，但是只要是跟疫情有關的都可以嘛？"],["李專門委員翊柔：就是看這個特別預算編列，要符合那個項目。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，是什麼內容，對，但是先支付一部並沒有講要用在什麼內容，對不對？OK，你沒辦法回答，接著本席再請教你，麻煩您聽一下，災害的財政準備不能有災害才找錢，要事先編列，這個說法您同意嗎？您認同嗎？"],["李專門委員翊柔：目前我們現行的預算裡面就針對災害的部分有一筆預算。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以我說要事先編列，您認同嗎？不能等到有災害才開始找錢，它要事先編列。"],["李專門委員翊柔：對，我們總預算就有編列災準金。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，臺灣有颱風、有地震，我想住在臺灣這個島上的人都瞭解，所以我們一個有為的政府，它一定會在前一年就編了下一年的，在它的總預算裡面會編列你所說的第一預備金、第二預備金還有災害準備金，對不對？對！所以一個有為的政府應該要這樣編列，但是如果有災害才開始找錢，可以先編列不編列，可以先完成立法程序，不完成立法程序，這個就是無能的政府、愚蠢的政府。所以本席也特別在此就921地震，因為現在有很多的媒體、很多人亂放話，本席在這裡要端正視聽，例如921地震的時候是先用經費的流用，也就是調節收支、移緩就急，再來是用第一預備金、第二預備金以及災害準備金，再不夠還可以追加預算，再不然，921的時候真正用的是總統的緊急命令來支付重大災害。其實特別預算應該是最後的手段，特別預算也是預算的一部分，所以也是要經過立法院審核通過。我希望執政的政府能夠堅守財政紀律，堅守憲政體制，不要動不動就要用特別預算，這是本席在這裡特別聲明的，謝謝。李專委，請回座。","接著本席想請客委會楊主委。"],["主席：請楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：楊主委，你好。本席看到業務報告第13頁提到，客委會持續透過客家歌曲以及音樂來打破文化藩籬，同時，也希望能夠促進客家音樂和語言文化的推廣，業務報告第13頁裡面提到為了推廣客家歌曲、推廣客家文化，有安排客家歌謠交流觀摩賽，總共有555隊以及1萬897人參與。主委，請問我們臺灣的客家人口有多少？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有四百萬出頭。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，四百多萬，我們有四百多萬的客家人，四百多萬的客家人，我們辦一個推廣活動其實只有一萬多人參加。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這是目前各地方成立的民謠班。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我知道，我要說……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們的民謠班全部都來了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我要說的是，你知道全臺灣最多客家人口比例的縣市是哪裡嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：當然是新竹縣。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們新竹縣鄉親總會的這些鄉親朋友，有一個很重要事情要我跟主委反映，就是現在他們唱山歌、客家歌謠還有客家的流行歌曲沒有版權，中央沒有幫我們買版權，中央沒有買版權，地方要唱歌謠的時候，如果沒有買版權，有很多是沒有辦法唱的。我在第8屆當立法委員的時候，當時是國民黨執政，我們買了很多的版權，所以我們的鄉親總會說這8年有很多新的歌謠、新的山歌，這8年有很多新的流行歌曲沒有辦法唱。所以拜託主委，為我們的鄉親總會買更多的版權，讓大家可以來唱這個歌曲。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，客委會對於民謠班的推動有出版過歌本，這些歌本內容全部有跟當事人、版權者協調……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以拜託主委……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這個版權要持續更新。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請主委發函給地方去瞭解地方的需要，地方需要的是什麼，現在很多人說他想要唱這些歌謠的時候沒有可以唱的，你可以去瞭解一下嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：因為山歌的部分是傳統歌曲，比較沒有版權的問題，除非是有人特別編曲過後，不然一般來說山歌是沒有這些問題的。現代的客家歌曲……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我是鼓勵請你發函給地方去瞭解地方的需求，可不可以做到？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好的，但基本上大家也都知道，如果有需求，他們會來詢問。"],["徐委員欣瑩：再來請主委正面回應，也請主席裁示列入公報紀錄，今天不處理臨時提案，但是本席有提四個，希望主委能夠積極正面回應，可以嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：請說。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我的質詢時間不夠，所以我就一起提出，請你發函瞭解地方的需要。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這個沒有問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：推動客語音樂年輕化，跨界主流音樂市場，你們有舉辦比賽，但是可以辦演唱會嗎？辦演唱會可以有更多人參加，未來可以辦一些演唱會，這是我的提案。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有，我們今年會有2場大型的演唱會，會請主流商業市場的歌手，剛才在大會有報告，像今年我們即將辦1場H cube，會有田馥甄、江美琪、林曉培，下半月會有……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不用說這麼多，我的時間不夠了，不好意思！近期因為寶林風暴，客家粄條無辜遭受波及，所以拜託主委瞭解看看能不能協助粄條業者澄清，行銷粄條產業，因為我們最有名的新埔粄條、美濃粄條全部都是客家庄……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員，這樣好不好，我們找個時間一起去吃？"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我有事先跟衛福部瞭解目前的情況，目前有提到不是米本身出了問題，名稱也有改了，非常感謝衛福部，把這個名稱改成比較中性的翻譯，不然大家一聽到是米製品都不能吃了，大家會擔心，我們找個時間一起去新埔吃粄條。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好的。還有針對客家文化元素，怎麼樣把我們的客家特色公園、客家文化活動的推廣辦理，能夠就客庄旅遊如何導入客家文化元素，我希望客委會可以提出書面報告。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：第四點是客語推廣，希望讓孩子還有更多的人對於我們的客家話，還有對講客語更有興趣，希望客委會能夠加強精進，讓孩子、家長對客家文化的認同度。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們有推動語言深化。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，這個部分我們也有提案，只是今天沒有處理臨時提案，也希望在下個會期開議前，客委會可以提出書面報告。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員所提出來的資料，我們一個禮拜內會跟委員書面答復。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席（吳委員琪銘）：謝謝徐欣瑩委員提出，今天我們不處理臨時提案，改為書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報，可以吧？好，謝謝。","下一位請許委員宇甄發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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Kacaw委員：對，我知道，我要的不是這個，我要接續，好，為什麼要這個東西？好，我接續談，重點，勞動部最清楚，現在缺工嘛！對不對？缺工很嚴重，對不對？我們的政策怎麼樣去因應臺灣缺工嚴重的事實？除了育嬰留職停薪繼續推動，因為嬰兒還是要照顧，但是缺工，我們鼓勵他上工，但是能夠非常安心的，有托嬰的地方，勞動部就必須跟衛福部去協調托嬰，然後讓他很放心地托嬰。我那個年代，我們夫妻一樣都上班，我在臺灣省政府上班，距離自己的父母親很遠很遠，孩子怎麼辦呢？就是托嬰。所以這個部分，尤其是缺工的年代，短期也沒辦法解決這個問題，所以這個政策還是要做一個調整，怎麼樣更放心去托嬰，然後他還可以正常地工作。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，的確啦！如何讓生養的環境更優化，除了我們這些措施鼓勵父母親都一起來育兒以外，其實托嬰、托兒措施也很重要，如果能夠完善的話，也可以讓父母親能夠續留職場。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以有這方面的協助，如果又有很好的托嬰環境的話，他願意……"],["許部長銘春：對，就是各部會本於權責來共同架構這個友善的育兒環境。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以你們要跟衛福部共同合作。"],["許部長銘春：包括衛福部和教育部都有。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：包括托嬰的經費要協助好不好？"],["許部長銘春：對，謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員。","接下來請李坤城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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10年7月1號以前跟以後做比較對 我知道 我知道我要的不是這個好 我要接氣好為什麼要這個東西啊好 我接氣談重點這個勞動部最清楚現在切工嘛 對不對切工很嚴重"},{"start":338.308,"end":366.522,"text":"對不對那我們的政策怎麼樣去因應這個臺灣切工嚴重的事實除了因應留留職停薪繼續推動是不是怎麼樣在這個這個嬰兒還是要照顧啊但是切工啊我們鼓勵他上工但是他的那個很能夠非常"},{"start":367.947,"end":391.608,"text":"安心的有拖音的地方。勞動部就必須跟衛福部去協調拖音。然後他那個很放心的拖音。我那個年代我們夫妻一樣都上班了。而且是遠離我在台灣省政府上班了。"},{"start":393.097,"end":420.883,"text":"遠離自己的父母親很遠很遠的孩子怎麼辦呢?就是拖嬰啊就是拖嬰所以這個部分尤其是切工的年代這個短期也沒辦法解決這個問題所以這個政策還是要做一個調整怎麼樣去有更放心可以去拖嬰然後他還可以正常的工作"},{"start":421.493,"end":422.756,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":423.004,"end":448.121,"text":"報告委員的確就是說如何有讓這個生養的環境更優化除了說我們這些措施鼓勵父母親都一起來育兒以外那其實托嬰托兒的措施也很重要如果這個能夠完善的話也可以讓這個父母親能夠蓄留職場所以有這方面的協助的話他如果有托嬰很好的環境的話他就願意托嬰所以你們要跟衛福部共同的合作"},{"start":453.344,"end":453.484,"text":"謝謝鄭天財委員"}]}},{"id":"150905","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150905","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e938165848398111a01e3451ee69db5942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a62f4a3623a33b8b275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"10:50:39 - 11:09:15","影片長度":"00:18:36","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":1116,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:09:15+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:50:39+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":549,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（10時50分）主席、各位，大家早安。是不是還是請我們阿春部長？"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：林委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，我們臺灣有一篇論文是趙苡彤小姐所寫的「代間互助：論台灣女性之提早退休」，因為我們開過記者會，所以你有看了這個新聞了嗎？"],["許部長銘春：看了。"],["林委員淑芬：他的研究假設發現，女性早退的主因竟然是阿嬤要顧孫，他發現55到64歲的臺灣女性一旦當上了阿嬤，就業的機率就馬上呈現女性勞動力的土石流下滑，下降的幅度非常高，統計上的數字是35到38%，這樣看起來的確是勞動力的土石流。我之前也就教於你，現在女性生育、生小孩以後，在小孩3歲跟小孩6歲的勞參率也在這樣子大幅地下降，反觀男生都沒有這個現象。","我們都知道少子化是國安危機，可是也有另一項研究講說，其實只要提高女性的勞參率2%，就可以解決勞動力不足的現況問題。勞參率只要提升、提高2%。我們在這裡來看，政府為什麼讓女性的勞參率隨著婦女生育而下滑，然後55歲開始就為了要顧孫，一路再繼續下滑那麼多，像土石流一樣地崩毀？他們比較說，這樣子沒有照顧年輕女性勞工的需求，一路拖累到中高齡的阿嬤要早退顧孫，所以就55到59歲的女性，臺灣女性勞參率下滑的現象比德國低了33.7%，60到64歲的女性比德國的勞參率低了33.4%。臺灣獨樹一幟的倒V型的女性就業曲線，呈現的是女性勞動力的土石流，但我要講說，55到64歲不只是女性勞工，而是所有勞工經驗最豐富、最專業，體力上也最可以負擔的時候，可是卻因為要顧孫，就提早從勞動市場裡面退出，這不是很可惜嗎？"],["許部長銘春：是很可惜，所以我們現在在想怎麼解決這個問題，當然我們也鼓勵婦女再就業，然後……"],["林委員淑芬：但我們要講的是，根據你們自己做的「僱用管理就業平等概況調查」，有八成的受僱勞工認為應放寬以日或小時使用育嬰留職停薪，而且在這種狀況裡面，男性的同意比例還大過女性。我們都知道，育嬰留職停薪應該利用彈性運用照顧子女，讓男女雙方輪流都可以使用，這個工作場所就業平等概況調查也顯示，不是只有勞工需要，將近五成的企業都同意把育嬰留職停薪假放寬到以日或以小時彈性使用，而且企業規模越小，同意比例越高，這是你們自己做的調查。29人以下的事業單位同意的比例高達49.5%，幾乎是五成的企業主、雇主都同意，30到99人事業規模的雇主同意的比例也高達41%。","我現在再跟你講，男性更需要更短休假的時間去分攤育兒。維也納大學經濟學系的兩位助理教授在2023年6月1日發表父親休育嬰假的關鍵因素，第一個是經濟誘因，就是收入替代率到底多高，還有彈性有多彈性，這個是關鍵。他們以奧地利帶薪育嬰假政策的變化，探討了休假期限的彈性及經濟誘因對休育嬰假決定的重要性，他們發現奧地利2008年引入了更短育嬰假的選擇，2010年提高了假期的靈活性，同時大大提高了父親的經濟收入替代率以後，每一項的改革都讓男性勞工休假的比例增加10到20%，然後發現再增加有薪，雖然提高了育嬰假使用率，可是實際休假的時間卻減少了。","基本上我們還是認為養孩子是男女雙方都要共同參與，現在都只有女性在使用育嬰留職停薪，而且使用當然不會是很高，可是當爸爸、媽媽累得要死的時候，如果把育嬰留職停薪限縮在30天、一次只能兩次，沒有彈性，男性他沒有辦法放，雇主也沒辦法允許他去放。這個問題茲事體大，你們當然有試辦計畫，可是我今天還有更大的事情要跟你討論，所以我今天在這裡建議你要處理這個問題以外，對於我們提的修法案，請你要支持。","另外，我要跟你談的是臺美21世紀貿易倡議第二階段要在臺北舉行，美國貿易代表署在4月5日大家休假的時候，上網公告了他們要談判的文本摘要，就農業、環境和勞工三大議題提出建議。請問部長，美方具體建議勞動部的部分，你看了嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有，其實這個部分我們內部有一直在做一些討論，就是移工制度……"],["林委員淑芬：我們都很擔心臺美21世紀的貿易倡議的勞動議題，會不會變成是第二階段談判進展的阻礙？因為美國貿易代表署公告的擬議文本講得很具體，要求雙邊於各自勞工法律當中採納國際公認的勞權及保護吹哨者的規定，要提出強化移工保護，包含招聘費用、相關成本等規定，也希望保障遠洋漁工使用Wi-Fi的權利，講得很具體喔！"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["林委員淑芬：第二，文本裡面還提到建立合作機制及解決供應鏈中強迫勞動的問題，在這個勞工問題上進行建設性的合作，包括促進數位經濟下的勞權及改善遠洋漁船的工作條件。人家問得這麼具體，但是我們勞動部的回應卻是回答得很空泛，你們的回應是，勞動部分，臺灣以人權立國，將透過美方的對話、合作機制，掌握國際重要的勞動規範的內容和趨勢，共同面對21世紀勞動力所面臨的挑戰，讓企業發展與人權齊步前進。我要問部長，美國講得這麼具體，對於我們國內法規你這樣子回答，有針對人家講的問題嗎？針對它講得這麼具體，難道我們的國內法規沒有需要調適的計畫嗎？21世紀的臺美貿易談判會不會卡在這個地方？因為本來去年的11月就應該全數都談好了，21世紀臺美貿易倡議的談判本來去年年底就應該要談好，可是談判過程不是那麼順利，美方公布的內容還具體地講到要提升勞動人權、環境標準。所以在這種狀況裡面，我們在這裡希望你告訴我們、告訴全臺灣的人，你要進入談判裡面，你要透明地告訴大家你怎麼因應這個？你告訴我們，政府的態度是什麼？你要不要在這裡跟社會大眾一併做個說明？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為臺美21世紀貿易倡議的談判主要是由經貿辦公室來主導，所以談判代表……"],["林委員淑芬：人家就勞動的部分，我就講勞動的部分，講得這麼具體，勞動的主責機關就是勞動部啊！"],["許部長銘春：其實我們考量到後續的談判，還有包括倡議的進程跟內容，都是屬於比較機敏的資訊，所以有關……"],["林委員淑芬：機敏的資訊？"],["許部長銘春：所以目前的部分我們統一由……"],["林委員淑芬：它在講說在勞工法律裡面要不要納入採納國際公認的勞權及保護吹哨者的規定，要提出強化移工保護，含招聘費用及相關成本等規定，這哪裡機敏？然後談到要不要解決供應鏈下強迫勞動的問題，這哪裡機敏？"],["許部長銘春：我是說這些議題談判的內容，包括我們未來可能對應的這些內容，我們都……"],["林委員淑芬：我覺得你們是人家實問，你虛答；我在這裡也是實問，你也是虛答。我要跟你講這事情已經很嚴重了，嚴重到去年有一個外交家雜誌，你知道吧？關於臺灣的勞動，去年10月31日發布了一篇深度的報導，就是「Debt Bondage in Space, and Taiwan」，你們如果沒有看到的話，這一篇報導風傳媒有把它改標題叫「《外交家》：台灣製造=強迫勞動製造？在台移工每年至少遭仲介剝削上百億」，外交家雜誌的答案是臺灣製造當然不等於強迫勞動製造，但還是有很多的疑問，它甚至指出了幾家供應鏈，裡面點出華碩子公司亞旭、六和機械、湧德電子等，包括SpaceX供應鏈下的六和機械，我記得是福特車廠吧！福特和通用汽車看到這篇報導以後，大家都有壓力，因為這兩家車廠是RBA的成員，他們要公開承諾「零付費」政策。福特回應說它要調查這件事，要請求獨立第三方進行審查；連工商促進會的林伯豐，他們現在都要要求政府擔起、扛起移工的責任，要國對國的引進，為什麼要國對國……"],["許部長銘春：我們也支持這樣啊！"],["林委員淑芬：包括你們長期以來對私人財團、大財團、大製造業也都專案的幫他們國對國引聘，即國對國的聘用，為什麼需要這樣子？因為走到這裡了，RBA這一篇雜誌裡面講到緯創及和碩本身，他們已經不容忍供應鏈中存在強迫勞動。"],["許部長銘春：我們當然是支持啊！包括國對國的引進……"],["林委員淑芬：我的意思是火已經燒到燃眉之急了，不是你在這裡虛與委蛇就可以的。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，相關的議題我們內部都有討論，我們去年也有到美國，跟美方做一些說明跟澄清，後續的談判我們也會跟經貿辦公室這邊進行不定時的會議，針對相關的議題……"],["林委員淑芬：你說去做說明和澄清，在4月5號、前三天而已，在與臺美21世紀貿易倡議的談判裡面，擬議的文本就是這樣子寫了啊！你去澄清沒有用，因為有一些……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，那是它……"],["林委員淑芬：甚至連合法性的，他們都認為這個法律是不符合ILO的規範，ILO的十一項強迫勞動指標，他認為我們的法律都有問題。而且我覺得你對我們實在是很不夠尊重，為什麼呢？112年7月26號立法院在審議臺美貿易倡議之間的協定，當時立法院通過一個附帶決議，這是立法院的決議，附帶決議的內容上面有寫：「美國長期關注臺灣外籍漁工勞動條件與人權問題，臺美貿易協議中，也將勞動條件作為重點之一，請評估我國勞動法規是否符合國際核心勞動基準（ILO）。為期勞動法規符合國際核心勞動基準，及順利推動臺美貿易協定，請行政院3個月內邀請專家學者、民間團體進行研商、盤點」。其實你們有沒有盤點？你們回復我們說，你們開了核心勞動公約法規檢視會議一共有三場，結果你的檢視會議第一場會議紀錄有提到，釐清現有法律是否規範不足或規範與執行有落差，但是你們沒有提出未來因應的作法和預定時程；第二場和第三場的會議紀錄，更看不出來檢視會議到底認為現行勞動法律是否符合核心勞動公約，而且你的討論事項跟決議事項答非所問，要不然就是推給行政院移工人權小組會議再行討論。","我們今天在講你們的會議是這樣討論的，有人在會議上討論：「對於境外僱用之遠洋漁業工作者，現有法制規範在消除強迫勞動上，是否足夠？」結果你們的會議內容紀錄，強調農委會執行「漁業與人權行動計畫」的主責，勞動部也是執行單位，請各業管單位依據該計畫配合辦理。你的意思是說，這是農業部的事情，跟你們沒有關係，你們也沒想到檢討自己的法規是不是有問題。","這上面就是跟你們有關的喔！家事移工、境外聘僱漁工是否應適用勞基法的規定？是否消除藍領外籍移工禁止轉換雇主的限制？這是你們會議裡面的提案、討論議題喔！結果你們會議內容是寫相關議題可以在移工人權小組會議上再討論，所以你們把這個會議、把這個法規的檢視，有沒有合理、有沒有執行面的問題，都丟給行政院移工人權小組。我現在要說的是你們這三場會議，就虛與委蛇了立法院，立法院跟你們說依去年的決議，你要去看一下有沒有問題喔！這個附帶決議要求你要檢視所有的法律喔！結果你回說：那是農業部的事，等到行政院移工人權小組再討論，跟我們都無關。老實說，這個對立法院也是虛與委蛇啦！"],["許部長銘春：委員，我們不會說跟我們都無關啦……"],["林委員淑芬：你的會議紀錄就是這樣寫啊！意思就是跟你們無關啊！這樣子就可以送到立法院……"],["許部長銘春：我們是說有其權責，但我們也是會參與啦。"],["林委員淑芬：去年你就送到立法院，說你檢視過了，答案兩個，即農業部的事、這個交給移工人權小組處理，然後跟你們都無關了。你的答復就是這樣。","最後，這個事情為什麼是燃眉之急？因為臺美21世紀貿易倡議的協議談判已經要進行了，美國勞工部在2020和2022年曾經兩度將臺灣遠洋漁業列入「童工及強迫勞動製品清單」；美國國家海洋暨大氣總署在2021和2023年兩次的國際漁業管理改善報告，先後將臺灣列為非法漁業強迫勞動國家；2023年美國勞動部國際事務助理副部長更明確向臺灣民間團體表示，支持在臺美貿易協定中納入保障漁工勞權、禁止進口強迫勞動製品的條款。所以我們在想說，到底你準備好要去談判了嗎？你要去談判的時候，說這個是移工人權小組討論的事情、農業部的事情，跟我都無關，人家在這裡把重點放在勞工環境上，我們具體要討論這個，我不希望你的回答是這樣，實問虛答啦！"],["主席：是不是可以請林委員等一下請部會……"],["許部長銘春：針對談判的議題，我們內部有討論，也有跟經貿辦公室討論。"],["主席：請勞動部會後再向委員補充說明，好不好？因為時間……"],["林委員淑芬：可以啦！但這個事情是很嚴重的，茲事體大啦！連外交家雜誌都這樣子寫了，還點名企業，企業一個、一個被點名的時候，他們的壓力就來了，我們不能靠著國際組織這樣點名我們的企業啊！國家難道都不用有作為嗎？企業不用等你作為，他們現在也知道要緊張了，他們也知道「零付費」的政策，所以你們可以服務財團、你們可以服務大企業，說我幫你們專案國對國引進，可是為什麼不能夠對一般個人、小老百姓或中小企業主，也提供這種國對國引進的模式？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，都有啦！我們沒有限制只針對……"],["主席：是不是請部長會後再向林委員……"],["林委員淑芬：你們陪新光到印尼去談的，服務得是無微不至啦！我們希望這種無微不至、還有國對國引進的模式，在印度的移工上面，還有在全國所有的中小企業雇主或是個人雇主上面，也應該要逐步國對國，老實說。好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。請部長會後再向林委員補充說明。","接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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們的國內法規難道針對他講的這麼具體沒有需要調適的計畫嗎?那21世紀的臺美貿易談判這個會不會卡在這個地方?因為呢本來啊去年的11月就應該全數都談好了"},{"start":480.638,"end":485.245,"text":"去年的11月本來21世紀台美這個貿易的倡議的談判本來去年年底就應該要談好可是呢談判過程不是那麼順利那美方公佈的內容還具體的講到說要提升勞動人權環境標準"},{"start":497.882,"end":516.155,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面我們在這裡希望你告訴我們告訴全台灣的人你要進入談判裡面你要透明的告訴大家你怎麼因應這個我們想要透明你告訴我們政府的態度是什麼你要不要在這裡跟社會大眾一併做個說明"},{"start":519.3,"end":534.73,"text":"這個報告委員因為這個臺美21世紀的創意的談判那麼就是經貿辦公室是主要的一個他們來主導所以談判代表人家就勞動的部分我就講勞動的部分講得這麼具體勞動的組織機關就勞動部其實就是說我們考量到說後續的這些談判還有包括創意的進程跟內容它都是屬於比較機敏的資訊所以有關的"},{"start":549.058,"end":565.082,"text":"他在講說這個在勞工法律裡面要不要納入採納國際公認的勞犬還有保護催少者的規定要提出含強化移工招聘費用相關成本的規定這哪裡機敏然後講說這個要不要解決供應面下的強迫勞動的問題這哪裡機敏"},{"start":567.785,"end":592.654,"text":"我是說這些議題的談判的內容包括我們的可能我們未來的一些對應的這些可能的我覺得你們是人家實問你虛答然後我在這裡也是實問你也是虛答我要跟你講這事情已經很嚴重了嚴重到這個去年有一個外交家的雜誌你知道吧關於你們"},{"start":594.682,"end":621.221,"text":"關於台灣的勞動有一篇去年10月31日發布了深度的報導就是Debt還有Boundage in Space and Taiwan這一篇報導我們如果沒有看到的話風傳媒有給他改標叫做外交家雜誌說台灣製造等於強迫勞動製造問號是不是在台灣的移工每年至少遭仲介剝削上百億"},{"start":622.642,"end":641.812,"text":"這個東西外交家的答案是說臺灣製造當然不等於強迫勞動製造但是他還是有很多的疑問他甚至指出了幾家的供應鏈外交家裡面點出華碩子公司、雅緒、六合機械等等還有永德電子"},{"start":642.412,"end":656.961,"text":"包括 Space X的這個下供應鏈六核機械他還被這個我記得是福特車廠吧福特安通用汽車看到這篇報導以後大家都有壓力所以他們承諾說要採行這個"},{"start":660.763,"end":678.069,"text":"因為這兩家車廠是RBA的成員要公開承諾零付費政策福特回應說他要調查這件事要請求獨立第三方進行審查連工商促進會的林伯峰他們現在都要要求政府擔起扛起移工的責任要國對國的這個引進"},{"start":682.094,"end":691.537,"text":"為什麼要國對國包括你們長期以來對私人財團、大財團、大製造業也都專案的幫他們國對國的引聘引進這個國對國的聘用這樣子為什麼需要這樣子因為走到家RBA這篇雜誌裡面講到說偽創和合作本身他們已經不容忍供應鏈中存在強迫勞動"},{"start":712.496,"end":719.642,"text":"我的意思是說火已經燒到燃眉之急了不是你在這裡蓄意偉儀就可以的"},{"start":721.363,"end":749.408,"text":"報告委員 這個相關的議題我們內部都討論我們也有跟去年也有到美國跟美方有做一些說明跟澄清那後續的談判我們也會跟經貿辦公室這邊都有不定時的會議在針對相關的你說你去做說明跟澄清它4月5日前兩天而已前三天而已它在台美21世紀貿易創意的談判裡面它擬議的文本就是這樣子寫了啊"},{"start":750.948,"end":762.462,"text":"你去曾經沒有用因為有一些連甚至連合法性的他們都認為這個法律是不符合ILO的所謂的規範的嘛ILO的11項的強迫勞動指標他認為我們法律裡面的法律都有問題"},{"start":771.659,"end":777.822,"text":"而且我覺得你對我們實在是很不夠尊重為什麼呢?112年7月26號我們立法院在審議台美貿易倡議之間的這個協定當時立法院通過了一個附帶決議附帶決議的內容有寫"},{"start":788.247,"end":813.383,"text":"這立法院的決議喔上面有寫美國長期關注台灣外籍漁工勞動條件與人權問題台美貿易協議中也將勞動條件作為重點之一請評估我國勞動基礎法是否符合ILO的這個勞動基準為其勞動法規符合國際核心勞動基準以及順利推動台美貿易協定請行政院在3個月內邀請專家、學者、民間團體進行延長盤點其實你們"},{"start":817.97,"end":825.707,"text":"有沒有盤點你們回覆我們說你們開了核心勞動公約法規檢視會議一共有三場結果你的檢視會議第一場第一場"},{"start":829.12,"end":854.796,"text":"會議的記錄上面寫第一場有提到離清現有法律是否規範不足或規範與執行有落差但是你們沒有提出未來因應的做法案預定時程第二場和第三場的會議記錄更看不出來檢視會議到底認為現行勞動法律是否有符合核心勞動公約而且你的討論事項跟決議事項答非所問要不然就是推給行政院移工人權小組會議再行討論"},{"start":857.037,"end":870.42,"text":"我們今天要講說你在裡面有討論你們的會議是這樣討論的有人會議上是說討論建外僱用的遠洋漁業工作者現有法治規範在消除強迫勞動上是否足夠"},{"start":871.878,"end":877.102,"text":"結果你們的會議內容記錄強調農委會執行漁業與人權行動計劃的主責勞動部也是執行單位請各業管單位依據該計劃配合辦理這你的意思是說農業部的事跟你無關的你也沒想到檢討自己的法規是不是有問題然後上面就跟你們有關的家事移工、建築物移工是否應適用勞基法的規定"},{"start":898.156,"end":911.304,"text":"是否消除藍嶺外籍移工禁止轉換雇主的限制這是您的會議裡面提案討論議題結果你們會議內容是寫相關議題可以在移工人權小組會議上再討論所以你們把這個會議把這個法規的檢視有沒有合理有沒有執行面的問題你們都丟給行政院移工人權小組"},{"start":921.727,"end":937.922,"text":"所以我現在要說的是 你這樣這三天就續委了立法院 立法院跟你說你去年的決議是說你要去看一下有沒有問題喔 這個我們這個附帶決議要求你要檢視所有的法律喔"},{"start":939.143,"end":959.429,"text":"結果你在講說那是農業部的事那個是等到行政院移工人權小組在討論跟我們都無關這個對立法院也是予以為疑啊老實說你不會說跟我們都無關啊你的會議紀錄就是這樣寫啊那意思就是跟你們無關啊那這樣子就可以送到立法院你去年就送到立法院說我檢視過了答案兩個農業部的事然後這個交給移工人權小組處理"},{"start":965.131,"end":968.355,"text":"然後跟我們都無關了你的答覆就是這樣好最後再講我現在講說這個事情為什麼是燃眉知己因為這個臺美21世紀貿易創意的協議談判已經要進行了那美國勞工部在2020和2022年"},{"start":980.907,"end":983.109,"text":"曾經兩度將台灣遠洋漁業列入同工及強迫勞動的製品清單美國的國家海洋及大氣總署在2021和2023年兩次國際漁業管理改善報告先後將台灣列為非法漁業強迫勞動國家"},{"start":997.798,"end":1008.674,"text":"2023年的美國勞動部再一次國際事務助理副部長他更明確地向臺灣民間團體表示支持臺美貿易協定中納入保障漁工勞權禁止這個進口強迫勞動製品的條款"},{"start":1012.179,"end":1029.322,"text":"所以我們在想說你到底準備好了要去談判了嗎?你要去談判的說我們這個是移工人選小組的討論的事情農業部的事情跟我都無關人家在這裡把重點放在說就勞工環境上我們具體要討論這個我不曉得你們的回應是"},{"start":1030.163,"end":1057.641,"text":"要怎麼回答?你的回答是這樣實問虛答啦。是不是可以請林委員等一下請部會,就是要請那個勞動部這邊會後再向委員這邊補充說明。可以啦,但是就是說這個事情是很嚴重的。我們知識體大啦,我們連那個外交家的雜誌都這樣子寫了,還點名企業,企業每一個一個被點名的時候,他們的壓力就來。那我們不能靠著國際組織這樣點名我們的企業啊。"},{"start":1060.403,"end":1069.551,"text":"國家難道都不用有作為嗎?企業不用你作為他現在已知道要緊張了所以他們也知道零付費零復工的這個政策所以你們可以服務財團你們可以服務大企業說我幫你們專案國對國引進可是那你為什麼不能夠對一般個人的或小老百姓的或小中小企業主也提供這種國對國引進的模式"},{"start":1086.645,"end":1086.665,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":1114.003,"end":1116.292,"text":"部長會後再向林委員補充說明"}]}},{"id":"150904","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150904","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981685b40eb1d3ab12f3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a64ed397689a3dd90d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"10:58:58 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11:06:49","影片長度":"00:07:51","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":471,"end_time":"2024-04-08T11:06:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:58:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":507,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（10時58分）主席好，各位官員、各位委員，大家早安、大家好。我們有請主委。"],["主席：我們請客委會主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝張委員。"],["張委員智倫：主委早安。恁仔細。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：恁仔細。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝主委。第一件事想要先請教主委，花蓮發生大地震，在4月3日花蓮發生25年來僅次於九二一的大地震，尤其在2022年花蓮也發生了九一八的地震，相信你也記憶猶新，要跟你請教的原因是，因為花蓮有三分之一的客家人口，人數將近十萬人，臺灣也是處於地震帶，這次的大地震，我相信也造成人民不安。所以先請教主委，我們客委會這邊是否有透過客家的會館進行客家鄉親的建物以及古物等一些古蹟的災情統計？尤其您知道現在這次花蓮也是有一個我們的客家會館，最近也是要辦活動，後續因為大地震的關係而暫停了，想先請教主委有關於我們所有客家會館的災情，是否有人員傷亡？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是，我們所補助的各項客家館舍設施與環境營造，目前就是臺東有一個地方稍微有一些瓦片的破損，其他的我們調查以後都是OK的，這是第一點。另外一點就是地震來不會問族群，我們透過自己的諮詢委員、社團、各方面去瞭解一下鄉親有沒有碰到特別需要協助的，目前我們還沒有得到回報，我想地方政府、中央政府以及相關跟救災有關的單位運作起來都非常有效率，需要我們的時候，我們一定會站出來，而我們主動瞭解的結果，目前還沒有提出這個要求。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委。因為就本席瞭解，臺灣有非常多的客家會館，像新竹有一個非常知名的叫「義民廟」，裡面應該有收藏一些歷史古蹟，也是要拜託主委這邊，希望趕快去瞭解和統計，是不是地方這邊有一些建物損毀的部分？因為就我得知，就像我們立法院這邊像康園有一些磁磚剝落，造成一些維安問題及後續要維修的部分。我請教一下主委，你瞭不瞭解現在中央是否有編列經費來協助客委會，來做為不管是在一些文物或是對地方一些客家會館整修的經費，你知道現在中央有提撥任何經費嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：本會在硬體建設的部分，一年差不多七億到八億的經費在硬體建設相關的部分，這是客委會本身每年會準備的預算，我們第一優先的就是文化資產如果有損壞，他要跟客委會來提出，甚至我們主動去發現，我們就會給他協助，像是北埔慈天宮，有一些輕微受損，但可能沒有到倒塌，我們會主動去看，我們看到新聞馬上就過去，看了之後就跟他們說，請縣政府協助我們的機關，我們就來辦理，沒有受到時間的限制，可以去修理。其他的地方也是一樣，只要有需求的時候提出，我們甚至會到現場去看，不過到目前為止，對於新設立的館舍，原則上我們沒有受理，除非有特別的需求，因為大家新設館舍以後，他自己沒有能力長期維護，也沒有人力編制人員，目前全國的客家館舍，我們認為已經到一個程度了，先等一段時間來觀察大家的需求，目前暫時對於新館舍的部分，我們比較沒有積極鼓勵大家提出。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委，很開心聽到主委講到4月3號的大地震，我們所有的客家會館、客家過去的歷史文物受到災害的損失，從主委剛剛報告的分享聽起來是稍微比較少一點的。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對。"],["張委員智倫：這個非常慶幸，可是我這邊也要跟主委提出，目前為止現在我們只看到行政院提出3億的賑災款，這個金額本席認為是相當不夠的，而且我相信很多部會會來申請3億的賑災款。主委，請教一下，你覺得3億的賑災款對你來講是夠用的嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：客家的部分因為目前我沒有接受到各地有這樣的需求提出，所以以我們現在的預算來說，如果大家提出很多，不夠的話，我們當然會向行政院報告，但在我們可以消化的範圍內，我們自己會處理。所以對於整體，因為其他部會所管轄的部分有多少損失、需要多少經費，我們並不是那麼瞭解，這是我們業務範圍以外的事情，但在我們業務範圍來說，對於客家地區在地震過後有什麼樣的需求，目前看起來沒有太大的問題。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委，我的時間剩不多，可是我要跟主委拜託，因為我今天是來跟您質詢，我知道禮拜四有行政院會，所以我拜託主委跟我們行政院院長拜託，提出4月3號大地震的災害特別條例來爭取預算，雖然您所屬的部會在預算的部分應該是足夠使用來修復這些東西，可是我相信很多部會，像我的選區在新北中和，很多的民宅都有毀損，不管是被貼紅單還是貼黃單的情況非常多。因為我沒辦法去參加行政院會，所以我這邊是不是可以拜託我們主委，在禮拜四的行政院會幫我提出4月3號大地震災害特別條例來協助全國民眾，尤其是花蓮的客家鄉親，很多鄉親重建家園的工作需要協助，可以幫我做這件事嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，因為各部會有專門負責的範圍，這個不方便在院會上正式提出，但是我會私下跟秘書長報告說委員有這樣的關心，是不是在院會可以慎重考量這樣的方案？我會跟秘書長做一個報告，因為這不是客委會所管轄的範圍，不方便在院會上正式提出。"],["張委員智倫：好，其實我也是拜託主委，因為今天我的時間有限……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員的關心。"],["張委員智倫：因為很多花蓮的客家鄉親，我相信也非常需要災害特別條例來編列預算協助他們，謝謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，感謝張智倫委員。","請徐欣瑩委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 5案(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(二)大陸委員會\n函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照\n案、(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書\n面報告，請查照案、(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預\n算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案","agenda_id":"1132501_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.77346875,"end":2.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.98409375,"end":3.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.30034375,"end":6.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.3678437500000005,"end":6.021593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.56159375,"end":7.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.629093750000001,"end":6.8990937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.476593750000003,"end":11.505968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.640968750000003,"end":75.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.05721875,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.37034375,"end":126.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.63159375000001,"end":98.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.94784375,"end":175.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.86721875,"end":157.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.66596875000002,"end":175.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.17221875,"end":242.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.11159375000003,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.82846875,"end":270.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.76034375,"end":308.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.47221875,"end":314.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.64846875,"end":317.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.98971875,"end":333.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.05034375,"end":356.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.20721875000004,"end":357.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.11846875000003,"end":421.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.66159375,"end":446.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.26471875000004,"end":461.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.22034375000004,"end":467.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.21096875,"end":468.58221875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.111,"end":5.217,"text":"來,咱家主委,客委主委,現在有時候聽到說大陸主委"},{"start":10.632,"end":32.392,"text":"感謝總委員主委早安安之世安之世好謝謝主委主委第一件事想要先請教你這個花蓮發生大地震在4月3號花蓮發生25年來僅次於921的大地震那相信尤其在去年這個2022年花蓮也發生了918的地震相信你也記憶猶新"},{"start":33.613,"end":34.694,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":52.794,"end":74.291,"text":"進行客家的鄉親建物以及古物一些這個古蹟的災情的統計尤其您知道說現在這次花蓮有一個也是我們的客家會館最近也是因為要辦活動因為辦活動後續因為大地震的關係而暫停了想要先請教主委有關於我們所有客家會館的災情還是否有人員傷亡是"},{"start":75.592,"end":97.588,"text":"我們所補助的各項客家管設設施環境營造目前就是臺東有一個地方稍微有一些瓦片那些破損其他的我們調查以後都是OK的我想這第一點那當然另外一點就是說地震也沒有地震台不會問族群"},{"start":98.869,"end":126.241,"text":"我們透過我們自己的諮詢委員社團各方面去了解一下鄉親有沒有碰到特別需要協助的目前我們還沒有得到這個回報我想地產政府、中央政府相關的跟救災有關的單位都運作起來非常有效率那需要我們的部分的時候我們一定會站出來那我們主動了解結果目前還沒有提出這個要求"},{"start":126.991,"end":151.588,"text":"好 謝謝主委因為就本席了解臺灣有非常多的客家會館像新竹有一個非常知名的叫藝名廟裡面應該有收藏一些這個歷史的古蹟那也是要拜託主委這邊希望就是說趕快去了解跟統計是不是地方這邊有需要去做一些一些建物的損毀的部分因為就我得知就像我們立法院這邊也會有一些瓷磚剛剛康源這邊有一些瓷磚剝落"},{"start":154.65,"end":156.35,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":176.435,"end":183.66,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":197.128,"end":198.449,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":215.217,"end":221.942,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":243.075,"end":261.389,"text":"二、新設管轄應延遲雙模再個疏離,除非有特別的需求。因為客家新設的管轄以後,即使沒能力創起肥膚,也沒能力變織泥,目前全國各地的客家管轄應延遲延遲長途,先停產時間來管轄一下,還會不會需求。所以目前暢時,對於新管轄的部分,應按照顧慮提出來。"},{"start":273.763,"end":296.43,"text":"好 謝謝主委那很開心聽到主委講到這是這個4月3號大地震我們所有的客家的會館客家過去歷史文物受到災害的損失聽主委剛剛報告的分享起來是比較稍微少一點的那這個非常的慶幸那可是我這邊也要跟主委提說目前為止我們現在只看到行政院只提出了3億的這個贈災款"},{"start":299.011,"end":300.613,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":314.694,"end":317.315,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":335.14,"end":355.775,"text":"所以對於整體因為其他部份所講的分別內有極度的損失是有極度的減費,因為客家委員會無所分料的在另一部份委員會事前但是除了另一部份委員會來講,目前對於客家提起才提同以後有沒有任何事求,目前看起來沒有任何太多問題"},{"start":358.131,"end":380.118,"text":"好謝謝主委我的時間剩不多可是我要跟主委拜託因為今天我今天是來跟您質詢因為我知道禮拜四有我們的行政院會所以我拜託這個主委你跟我們的行政院的院長來拜託來提出4月3號大地震的災害特別條例來爭取預算因為我雖然說這個"},{"start":382.159,"end":384.74,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":408.652,"end":431.52,"text":"4月3日的大地震災害特別條例來協助全國民眾,尤其花蓮的客家鄉親需要協助重建家園工作,可以幫我做解釋嗎?若非報告,因為各部份有專制附近的範圍,兩岸某方面都延避政治體制,但若是死哈佬必須報告,跟委員會按照慣行。"},{"start":433.061,"end":437.504,"text":"三、客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及財團法人"},{"start":448.465,"end":449.185,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"}]}},{"id":"150903","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150903","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981b40877b73b54f72b3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a648629f5137383e995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"10:41:40 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10:53:21","影片長度":"00:11:41","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":701,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:53:21+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:41:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":458,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時41分）謝謝主席。我們先請陸委會邱太三主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員好！"],["黃委員捷：主委好！既然都來了，就問一下。","先問兩題，第一個是馬習二會，因為現在有傳出馬習二會有可能會改到4月10日，其實剛剛陸委會主委也有提到，你認為這個如果是個人的文教交流沒有問題，那我想問的就是如果馬習二會真的成會了，這樣還算是個人的文教交流嗎？我們陸委會不用有態度嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上，我們第一個當然持續關注有沒有這樣的行程，第二個，他在過程中到底是怎麼樣的發言，誠如剛剛我有提到了，他這一次去雖然定調是私人的行程，不過還是有維安的維護。第二個，馬前總統也是一樣有享受我們國家對於卸任總統的禮遇金也好，或者是各項的經費，所以我希望他還是要維護我們中華民國的基本主權及尊嚴。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯，主委講到一個重點，他此行都還是有維安的狀態下，而且不要忘記過去這8年馬英九領了我們國家多少錢，我幫他算過了，至少7,500萬！這是他個人，如果加上隨扈還有其他的醫療需求，超過1億元。他領著這樣的待遇，發言卻有損國格，我認為我們應該要全體撻伐，陸委會也應該要給予一個態度，如果此行他真的有發表任何有損國格的言論，請陸委會第一個站出來予以譴責。"],["邱主任委員太三：謝謝委員的指教。"],["黃委員捷：再來，另外一件事情，最近傳出我國在澳門有一個國父紀念館，那是屬於我國的資產，價值有一億多，那是在澳門的領土上唯一可以展示我國國旗的地方，但聽說現在中共覬覦這個國父紀念館，要強制我方出售，請問有這件事情嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：應該……不曉得後面會怎麼發展，不過目前這個建築物到底算不算是屬於他們要都市規劃範圍內的古蹟，有在判斷、認定了。我們初步雖然判斷是，但是我們也有提出一些意見跟看法。如果被認定的時候，當然就會受到比較多的管制，目前我們都持續在注意後面的變化。"],["黃委員捷：這件事情務必請陸委會要全程關注，不希望我方的資產卻被用這種方式處理，因為這種方式中共也不是第一次用了。"],["邱主任委員太三：它好像不是只有針對我們，而是整個澳門……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["邱主任委員太三：這應該是澳門特區政府自己的規劃，我們會注意委員的指教……"],["黃委員捷：希望這件事情我們還是要據理力爭，不要最後用他們的方式列為文化資產，結果卻要強迫我方出售。"],["邱主任委員太三：不會。我們會注意。"],["黃委員捷：這兩件事情務必請陸委會持續關注，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：謝謝委員。"],["黃委員捷：再來，請客委會主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：黃委員好。"],["黃委員捷：不好意思，讓我戴一下耳機。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員。"],["黃委員捷：大家好。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：大家好。"],["黃委員捷：我只會講這句，不好意思。首先，我想關注一下客家語言發展法的進度，因為客家基本法在2018年修正之後，明定客語是我國的國家語言，也公布自然語言跟臺灣手語都是國家語言，我認為這個在現在的臺灣是非常重要，因為我們對於多元文化非常的重視，所以這個宣示非常重要。可是在客家基本法之上最後一塊、非常重要的就是，依據它所要制定的客家語言發展法到現在院版都還沒有正式提出來。我看過去，其實在上一屆就有這樣的討論，最後也有5個立委送出版本，可是院版到現在好像都沒有新的進度，這一屆有沒有機會看到院版送進來呢？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們從訂定草案、公告到各地方辦論壇，到現在已經差不多四年了，這四年當中，我們不斷的……"],["黃委員捷：不好意思，我換一個耳機，我聽不懂。可以幫我暫停嗎？好了，請說。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：剛才提到我們從草案產生、公告，到各地辦論壇、接觸利害關係人的意見，還有跟各部會協調，這當中因為有非常多的條文，說實在的，我們有考慮是不是應該要提出比較進步的條文。剛才也有委員說到威爾斯語言法，基本上，我們跟威爾斯語言法的精神是差不多的，因為他們的情況跟我們類似。不過這個過程中，我們會遇到講不同語言的人認為，這是不是權利上的不平衡？但是我們認為因為客家話瀕臨危機的情況比較嚴重，應該有比較特殊的作法，我們儘量去解決問題。我舉一個例子，像我們規定所有的公家機關都有義務接受國民用客家話要求服務，這一點有很多人提出，有的機關做不到，所以就要去分類，比方中科院就沒有這樣的特殊需求，它有特殊的目的，像這樣窒礙難行的就報給我們，我們會決定，但是我們畫不出一條具體的線。同時，一般的機關，像臺北市某一個機關有民眾要求用客家話，我們要提供服務，但是這個機關可能沒有客家人，這個時候要怎麼去處理？目前為了解決這個問題，我們已經申請了1977專線，將來公務機關遇到這樣的情況可以打1977，客委會有專人在線上立即通譯、翻譯來解決這個問題。後續的準備我們做好之後希望……最近有再將最新調整的文字行文到院內，我們當然希望這個會期可以完成，說實在，520之後，我也不知道會如何。我們非常希望可以在這個會期最短的時間內通過，我會更積極跟院內不同的部門、部會來協調。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝主委。我覺得這是大家共同的期待，我也希望趕快把細部協調好。如果真的可以，你們就這個會期送進來，然後趕快來排審。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員，到時候請委員支持。"],["黃委員捷：我們是一定支持的！因為我看了一下過去討論的狀況有提到，分階段推動通行語的期間可能還沒有辦法訂定，公教人員符合客家人口比例的應完成期限，也沒有辦法很明確地押下去，甚至如果學校要以客語教學，推動的方式跟進程也都有一些執行上的困難。這些我都理解，我希望這個可以儘速、趕快協調完畢。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們儘量將每一個困難的地方一個一個解決。"],["黃委員捷：我再問兩個，一個是客語輸入法，什麼時候可以開放手機版？因為我知道現在已經完成了電腦版的研發，也已經上路了，不知道手機版是什麼時候？最後一個是現在客語配音員的薪資待遇低於華語，這個也是之前有委員質詢過的，我想知道現在有沒有改善了？以上兩個問題。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：先說配音的部分，配音員因為自身專業的程度，還有對品質要求的程度不同，他們的收入會不一樣，華語也會有一個range，以目前我們查到的來說，專業的部分客語的配音員並不會輸給華語的配音員，如果有遇到具體的情況，我會來處理，我們會行文給相關單位。尤其公共電視台及客家電視台，對於客語的配音員，我們一定要保障他們的工作權益，說起來客語配音比華語配音還要重要，因為客語是少數語言，即將要流失掉了，所以這個部分我們一定會重視。"],["黃委員捷：是，沒錯。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：關於剛才提到手機顯示的問題，目前桌機的部分已經完成了，甚至於年底語音輸入法也要做出來，現在遇到的狀況是有的字在現有的智庫裡面沒有，桌機的這個問題已經解決了，但是手機、行動的部分牽涉到iOS與Android作業系統的底層，底層如果沒修改，沒辦法顯示。這個部分其實不只客委會，因為河洛話跟其他語言也有類似的情況，我們最近有跟中央的標準局協商，將它列入國家標準當中的附件。我這幾天有寫一封信，不知道反映會如何，但是我們認為有必要直接寫給他們的CEO，所以有準備兩封信要給Google跟蘋果的CEO，跟他們說你們做這麼重大的事情，可以協助一個少數語言復興，拜託他們積極協助。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝主委，看得出你的決心跟毅力，希望你的信真的可以送到這些軟體企業CEO的手上，最後我們在手機上也可以順利使用。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：希望不會像卡夫卡那個「K」，永遠到不了城堡。"],["黃委員捷：希望主委可以一起加油。語言的保存其實也是一個轉型正義，從1988年的還我母語運動到現在，我認為這個轉型正義勢必、應該要到了一個有成果的時候，希望就在主委你們的努力之下，讓民眾也可以感受到客語就在我們的生活中。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：確實，語言復興是轉型正義的一部分。"],["黃委員捷：是的。謝謝主委、謝謝大家。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝委員。"],["黃委員捷：恁仔細。"],["主席：感謝黃捷委員。","我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時53分）","繼續開會（10時58分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","請張智倫委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 5案(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(二)大陸委員會\n函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照\n案、(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書\n面報告，請查照案、(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預\n算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案","agenda_id":"1132501_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.58784375,"end":0.8915937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.7690937500000001,"end":2.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.684093750000001,"end":8.637218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.19034375,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.957843750000002,"end":29.039093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.039093750000003,"end":31.789718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.95846875,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.408468750000004,"end":48.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.25534375,"end":52.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.44471875,"end":55.330343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.414718750000006,"end":60.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.08471875,"end":63.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.750968750000006,"end":67.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.67846875000001,"end":69.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.97784375,"end":103.25534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.25534375000001,"end":103.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.28909375,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.33971875,"end":104.25096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.25096875000001,"end":128.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.04471875000002,"end":128.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.06159375000001,"end":128.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.28096875,"end":139.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.04284375,"end":155.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.00659375,"end":156.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.39471875,"end":157.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.79534375,"end":160.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.46159375000002,"end":160.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.86221875,"end":170.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.94096875000002,"end":179.80034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.93221875,"end":173.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.04534375,"end":188.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.03096875,"end":192.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.06409375,"end":194.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.96659375000002,"end":196.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.72534375,"end":201.38346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.50159375,"end":204.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.76659375000003,"end":207.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.74534375000002,"end":208.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.43284375000002,"end":210.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.55909375000002,"end":212.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.03159375,"end":214.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.93409375000002,"end":215.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.77784375000002,"end":270.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.82409375000003,"end":273.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.20346875,"end":275.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.93721875,"end":276.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.38846875,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.26534375,"end":286.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.89784375,"end":286.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.95221875000004,"end":288.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.00284375,"end":289.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.03596875,"end":292.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.58409375,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.78659375,"end":296.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.41909375,"end":299.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.05159375,"end":301.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.35096875,"end":301.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.90784375000004,"end":302.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.27471875000003,"end":304.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.83971875000003,"end":309.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.56534375,"end":307.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.19784375,"end":342.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.12596875,"end":337.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.82971875000004,"end":403.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.76534375,"end":408.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.76034375,"end":409.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.6884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主委好既然都來了就問一下先問兩題啦第一個是馬席二會因為現在有傳出說馬席二會有可能會改到4月10號嘛那其實剛剛陸委會主委也有提到說你認為這個是一個如果是文教個人的交流沒有問題那我想問的就是說如果這個馬席二會真的成會了這樣還算是個人的文教交流嗎我們陸委會不用有態度嗎"},{"start":32.448,"end":52.316,"text":"基本上我們第一個當然持續關注有沒有這樣的一個行程啦第二個他在過程中到底是怎麼樣的一個發言啦因為從剛剛我也有提到了他這次去呢雖然是定調是私人的這樣的一個行程不過還是有維安的維護嘛"},{"start":54.637,"end":56.34,"text":"二、馬前總統享受國家現任總統禮遇金及各項經費,維護中華民國基本主權及尊嚴。"},{"start":69.195,"end":81.484,"text":"主委講到一個重點他此行都還是有維安的狀態下而且不要忘記過去這8年馬英九領了我們國家多少錢我幫他算過了至少7500萬這是他個人如果交上隨後還有其他的醫療需求超過1億元他領著這樣的待遇卻發言說有損國格我認為這個是我們應該要全體踏"},{"start":92.432,"end":100.638,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議二、處理113年度"},{"start":120.933,"end":123.896,"text":"但聽說現在中共寄予這個國父紀念館然後說希望要強制我方來出售請問有這件事情嗎應該這個是後面各位怎麼發展不曉得不過目前因為他們在重新對於這個建築物呢到底算不算是屬於他們要都市規劃裡面的古蹟的部分呢有在做判斷的認定"},{"start":146.357,"end":147.638,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":162.052,"end":188.212,"text":"這件事情務必請陸委會要全程關注不需要說我方的資產卻用這種方式因為這種方式其實中共也不是第一次了它好像不是只有針對我們而是整個澳門應該是澳門特區政府的自己的規劃所以希望這件事情我們還是要據理力爭不要說變成說最後說用他們的方式列為文化資產結果卻要強迫我方來出手"},{"start":189.073,"end":196.715,"text":"好,那這兩件事情務必請陸委會持續關注。謝謝。好,再來我們請客人會主委。藍家主委。方便齁?好,不好意思喔,讓我攜帶一下。感謝Vian。謝謝。好,台哥好。台哥好。我只會講這句,不好意思。"},{"start":214.977,"end":242.658,"text":"好首先我想關注一下這個客家語言發展法的進度因為其實客家基本法在2018年修正之後現在也明定說客語就是我國的國家語言了那在2019年也制定然後公佈了說現在的自然語言跟台灣手語都是國家語言我認為這個是在現在的台灣是非常重要因為我們對於多元文化非常的重視這個宣示非常重要可是呢這個在"},{"start":243.018,"end":269.614,"text":"客家基本法之上的最後一塊的非常重要的就是它的制定的客家語言發展法到現在好像都院版都還沒有正式的提出來那我看過去的在過去的討論其實在上一屆就有這樣的討論那其實最後也有五個立委有送出版本可是我們院版到現在好像都沒有給予一個新的進度不知道說我們這一屆有沒有機會看到院版送進來呢"},{"start":270.865,"end":274.429,"text":"財政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":294.608,"end":294.969,"text":"可以幫我暫停嗎?是要用這個對不對?"},{"start":306.065,"end":313.35,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":334.906,"end":338.727,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":359.995,"end":377.058,"text":"所有的公家機關由義務、接輸、居民、用客家法來要求服務。這一點可以永遠提出說,有的機關做不到。所以你說那份內容,比方說我剛才提到中科院,"},{"start":377.639,"end":382.642,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":406.438,"end":406.538,"text":"已經申請了19..."},{"start":410.64,"end":414.281,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":437.389,"end":441.091,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":458.456,"end":481.153,"text":"好 謝謝主委我覺得這是大家共同的期待啦我也希望說趕快把這個細部協調好如果真的可以我們就這個會期送進來然後我們就趕快來拍攝我們是一定支持的啦因為其實我看到我也是看了一下過去討論的狀況就是有提到說分階段要推動這個通行譽的期間可能還沒有辦法訂定然後甚至是說"},{"start":482.013,"end":503.484,"text":"公教人員在符合客家人口比例的應完成期限也沒有辦法很明確的押下去甚至是之後如果學校要以課宇為教學推動的方式跟它的進程也都沒有辦法說都有一些執行上的困難這個我都理解那我希望的是這個可以來盡速來趕快協調完畢請兩位老闆在困難的地方一下一下去解決"},{"start":504.684,"end":529.082,"text":"好那我再問兩個一個是就是客語輸入法我們什麼時候可以開放手機版因為我知道說我們現在已經完成了電腦版的研發然後也已經上路了那不知道手機版什麼時候那最後一個是就是我們現在客語配音源的薪資的待遇低於華語這個也是之前有委員質詢過的我想知道現在有沒有改善了以上兩個問題"},{"start":530.123,"end":534.426,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":550.097,"end":553.178,"text":"二、客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":573.584,"end":575.986,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":594.219,"end":595.74,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":624.339,"end":625.6,"text":"二、由客家委員會負責負責負責負責負責負責"},{"start":651.214,"end":665.264,"text":"好 謝謝主委我看得出你的決心跟毅力啦希望說你的信可以真的送到這些軟體的手上然後之後我們手機也可以順利使用希望不會像卡夫卡那個K永遠到不了城堡"},{"start":666.425,"end":687.883,"text":"好希望主委可以一起加油那就是我希望說這個語言的保存他其實也是一個轉型正義啦從1988的還我母語運動到現在我認為這個轉型正義勢必應該要到了一個有成果的時候那希望主委就在你們的努力之下可以讓民眾也可以感受到客語就在我們的生活中他說你也復原了轉型正義是的好謝謝主委謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":695.302,"end":698.938,"text":"感謝、感謝黃姐的委員．跟我們休訓過分間．"}]}},{"id":"150902","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150902","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e938165848398185fec6f5b1cfdcf73b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a680f12972742bcc115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:28:58 - 10:41:27","影片長度":"00:12:29","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":749,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:41:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:28:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":407,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時28分）我請主委。"],["主席：好，請主委。"],["張委員宏陸：我是請客委會主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝張委員對客家的關心。"],["張委員宏陸：當然是請你啊！我想請問主委，我們的客家語言發展法其實到現在院版還沒出來，有沒有在這個會期裡面，我們會不會希望院版可以出來？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：這件事情說起來，客委會的我覺得非常抱歉，我每天都認為應該會順利，但是在協調的過程當中，不同的利益團體、利害關係人，還有不同的部會，我們甚至在行政院由政務委員召開的審查會已經通過了，不時還是有新的意見提出來。提出來的意見當中，有人認為這個法律因為是針對客家語言的發展而有特殊的規定，有特殊規定的時候是不是就會影響到其他族群語言權益的平衡。這個在觀念上其實還在溝通，因為相對來說，本土的國家語言大部分都面臨到發展上的危機，如果是根據UNESCO的標準，大家都是瀕危語言，但是客家話的瀕危又比起其他語言……當然是比原住民的語言好些，但卻比河洛話差很多。像在主計總處的調查當中，日常生活當中國民以河洛話為主要語言的有三成左右，以客家話為主要語言的只有1.5還是1.7，非常地低，所以我們認為要用特殊的方式，但是如果規定下去的話，其他的語言是不是照樣辦理，這個部分大概會有一堆意見。","我最近也有發文給院內，將我們最後重新整理的……簡單來說就是會先退幾步，先求有再求好，希望這個退幾步的版本這個會期可以做到，但是說實在的，我也覺得非常抱歉，很多會期我都相當有信心，但是到了現在我已經不敢說了，不過我們還是有積極地在做。"],["張委員宏陸：好，就是先求……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們也希望院內大家可以支持。"],["張委員宏陸：剛剛主委講的先求有再求好，我覺得我很認同，所以我才會說，這個客家語言發展法應該要能早一點送出來讓大家來審，不管剛剛主委講的，專家學者有什麼其他意見，其實在立法院我們可以辦公聽會，也可以做什麼，大家來討論嘛！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們也希望是這樣子。"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！你看，像英國的威爾斯語言法我就覺得是個非常棒的一個法案。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：它是我們學習的對象。"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！我們可以學習它嘛！對不對？它是我們學習的對象，我們當然就學習它。我覺得就朝這個方向來努力，好不好？","另外，主委，現在人口跟語言的資料調查，其實客家語言的部分應該是我們客委會來主政的吧？對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯啦！但是主計總處的人口普查，雖然有語言這個問題，不過他們的題目就是問，兒時最早學會的語言、跟現在主要使用的語言、跟現在次要使用的語言、父親最常使用的語言、母親最常使用的語言，就這5項而已。你覺得，對我們客家政策規劃及我們未來的語言發展法而言，它這5個題目有沒有需要再稍微調整一下？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：主計總處的調查是多元的目的，所以它沒有那麼多題目，我們客委會自己本身有辦客語使用情況的調查，我們的題目跟他們的不一樣，所以兩邊可以互補。尤其是委員剛剛提出的，主計總處對於國民生活當中主要使用語言這個部分，我們非常敬佩有這個題目，對我們的政策推動相當有幫助。當然客委會的題目更長，我們的一個調查，譬如用電訪，如果唸太多，人家常常不耐煩，聽不下去，所以非常感謝主計總處有這個調查，確實對我們客委會的施政有所幫助。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，我覺得你說的沒有錯，它當然是一個普及的調查，不過我覺得我們也可以跟主計總處稍微溝通協調，如果是客家庄的調查，這個題目是不是可以稍微改一下，也可以對我們的客家語言發展法、對我們未來的客家政策有一些幫助，我覺得是這樣，比如一個客家庄，你問這個，我覺得就有點……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，我們邀請主計總處共同來協調一下，在調查內容、目標上面，可能各有不同的思考，我們來整合協調一下，感謝委員的指示。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝主委。","再來，我們客家文化園區現在到底營業的如何，能不能打平？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒辦法打平……"],["張委員宏陸：沒辦法，對不對？沒辦法嘛！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒辦法打平，像這種文化設施，不要講客家這樣的少數族群，像文化部所有很有名的大館舍，全部沒辦法打平，因為文化的東西是政府要付出的。但是我們的歲入有成長，我們同仁也很努力，也得過不同的獎項，也有跟國外合作。像剛剛跟委員報告的，我們對於典藏收藏客家文物是5年前開始，5年前是零，我們客發中心有一個很大的恆溫恆溼的倉庫，完全沒利用，所以5年前開始要求要成立典藏委員會，目前客家發展中心臺灣文化館的部分典藏收藏加起來有15,000多件，我們希望繼續來努力，不過這1萬多件確實在展覽的時候有用到，我們有邀請專業的學者來組成典藏的徵審委員會，用博物館的專業，在定位上，希望建立一個合格的臺灣客家博物館，長期來說，我們希望可以蒐集現代世界當中客家所表現的不同文物在臺灣成立一個中心。"],["張委員宏陸：對，主委，你說的很沒有錯！我認為客家文化是活的，現在都是活的，我們也不只把市場放在臺灣，我要讓全世界都可以看得到，所以我要強調這都是活的……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：我們現在太把很多的客家文化園區變成收藏展覽，我覺得應該是改變成體驗，體驗才好玩，才會想要再去，對不對？我覺得是這樣，對不對？你也知道，我也算客家人，你剛剛講的，我都聽得懂，我只是不敢講而已，對不對……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員不是算客家人，委員是客家人。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦！我只是不會講客家話的客家人，但你講的我都聽得懂，很多像我這樣的人，對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：所以你要在一個體驗的角度，讓我們客家人也好，或國外的，全世界、東南亞很多的客家人，其實要讓他們可以來臺灣體驗，體驗我們什麼？很多，客家人結婚的整個過程，還有拜拜或什麼的，不是讓我們感覺客家的傳統就是南管北管，我覺得這個我們是不是可以改變……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：傳統現代都要有啦！"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：體驗這一點，目前針對兒童的部分有，剛剛委員所建議的，我覺得非常值得參考，我們將來對於成人體驗的部分會設計，過去我們有360度的劇場，我們來加強這個部分。"],["張委員宏陸：不只是劇場。不好意思，再給我30秒……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：實際去參與啦！"],["張委員宏陸：自己可以去參與，你說得對！要參與，我覺得像結婚要準備什麼東西、麻糬什麼東西的，可以讓他體驗去做，這個已經太多人了，我覺得有很多其他的可以去……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有，像我們六堆文化園區，六堆的人挲草用腳去踏，叫做「踔田」，南部就有辦踔田的體驗，現在已經全部都用機器了，北部的客家人覺得這個踔田很特別，所以像這種文化上特別的東西，我們會把它拿出來，其實像割稻、插秧，屬於農村生活的，我們目前都有做，但是委員剛剛指導的新的部分，我們來設計，看怎麼樣讓新的客家文化可以體驗，在策展的時候，儘量將體驗納入思考。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我覺得要有新的體驗，注入新的東西，讓年輕人想要去，我覺得這個比較重要，對不對？我如果帶我的小孩子去，說以前就是這樣，我們以前就是這樣子做的，不用教他，讓他體驗，我覺得這個比較重要，好不好？主委，謝謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：其實國際旅客也漸漸增加，像孫曉雅處長，也有特別去看，陸續也有許多外國相關的外交人士、文化人士，因為臺灣現在越來越有名，他們瞭解臺灣以後，發覺臺灣有客家這個族群，他們也覺得很有趣，所以現在我們接待國際旅客的情況越來越多。"],["張委員宏陸：對，很多啦！我覺得就是這樣，而且在客家庄裡面，像我們很多祭祀或什麼，你看現在是3月份，全臺灣都在瘋媽祖，很多我們客家庄祭祀的那些儀典其實也是非常有趣的，我們應該去發展它，讓大家一起去體驗、去玩、去參加，我覺得這個都是可以規劃的。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：其實很多客家人也有去參加拱天宮的，就像以前我們家，在苗栗山線，我們也每年都去新港，拿著令旗、香旗去過火，各地都有這樣的傳統，像日本時代苗栗市是騎腳踏車去北港朝天宮合爐、換香旗。"],["張委員宏陸：對呀！像東勢有巧聖仙師的廟，那個也都很特殊的，我覺得都可以，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。"],["張委員宏陸：時間的關係，就這樣，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員指導。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝。"],["主席（王委員美惠代）：感謝張宏陸委員。請黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 5案(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(二)大陸委員會\n函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照\n案、(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書\n面報告，請查照案、(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預\n算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案","agenda_id":"1132501_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.49471875,"end":5.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.95409375,"end":6.0553437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.342218750000001,"end":6.527843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.527843750000001,"end":6.915968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.915968750000001,"end":6.949718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.47221875,"end":11.489093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.489093750000002,"end":15.117218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.26909375,"end":15.302843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":18.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.73721875,"end":17.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.62284375,"end":27.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.419093750000002,"end":32.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.26221875,"end":32.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.08909375,"end":36.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.29534375,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.89409375,"end":44.682218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.47534375,"end":57.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.080968750000004,"end":81.33471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.21221875,"end":82.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.39346875000001,"end":86.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.08909375,"end":92.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.21909375,"end":93.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.10909375,"end":110.57909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.84909375000001,"end":140.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.24096875,"end":154.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.97721875000002,"end":154.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.99409375000002,"end":155.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.70284375,"end":157.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.95596875,"end":157.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.72784375,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.96409375000002,"end":185.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.84159375000002,"end":159.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.14034375,"end":164.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.35971875,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.42971875,"end":175.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.43721875,"end":181.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.48346875000001,"end":185.28471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.70659375000002,"end":187.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.76534375,"end":192.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.95034375,"end":192.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.96284375000002,"end":192.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.99659375000002,"end":203.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.52784375000002,"end":195.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.71346875,"end":196.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.88096875000002,"end":204.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.02846875,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.59721875000002,"end":210.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.90096875,"end":215.37284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.37284375000002,"end":215.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.44034375,"end":215.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.89596875,"end":219.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.26659375000003,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.32659375000003,"end":254.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.03346875000003,"end":254.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.97846875000002,"end":290.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.68159375,"end":294.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.78659375,"end":295.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.59659375,"end":305.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.89034375,"end":331.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.48971875,"end":336.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.13034375,"end":336.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.46784375000004,"end":348.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.97221875,"end":351.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.72284375000004,"end":356.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.85284375000003,"end":359.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.41784375000003,"end":359.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.05909375000005,"end":362.2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10:28:32","影片長度":"00:11:52","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":712,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:28:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:16:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":355,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時16分）謝謝主席，有請客委會主委。"],["主席：好，請客委會主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，不用緊張。主委早安！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員早。"],["牛委員煦庭：今天有幾件事情要跟你做一下政策的討論。我先從業務報告開始，因為大家都知道，現在是由公共電視文化事業基金會來做客家電視台、客家公共傳播基金會來做講客廣播電台，當我們現在說要推廣客家文化的時候，其實媒體的渠道還是有它的影響力，而且滿重要的。所以我想要問一下，第一個問題是，我們有看到公共傳播基金會的業務報告，它當然就是講講客廣播電台的推動狀況，但是我們沒有看到客家電視台相關的推動狀況，連你的業務報告裡面好像也沒有寫到多少東西，這個原因是什麼？你要不要說明一下？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，客家電視台過去是客家委員會業務計畫當中的標案，根據政府退出廣電的條例，現在是交給公共電視台辦理，所以在補助的情況之下，我們還是業主，所以我們每次提出的報告當中會有他們的部分，但是今年開始，因為公共電視法修改以後，公共電視可以設立族群的電視台，所以客委會目前是採取跟文化部捐助公視一樣的方式，客家台正式成為公共電視集團當中的一個頻道，基於政府尊重公共媒體的獨立性，我們對它的內容不予干涉，也沒有去指揮，所以目前的情況是：它是整體公共電視台的一個部分，客委會這邊沒有直接干涉它的內容，因此也沒有將它列入我們的報告當中，就是因為性質已經改變了。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，所以基本上這個業務還是交給公共電視台負責嘛！你們說基於公共性，就不多做干涉。這個我可以理解，但是我要問一下……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們是改捐助啦！"],["牛委員煦庭：捐助，我知道，等一下我們會討論這個問題。因為你講到公共電視文化基金會，客家電視台也有一個諮議委員會，也就是說，雖然它有一定的公共性，但相對來講、我們從推動客家文化的角度來講，你還是要有一定的角色嘛！我們當然不是要去干涉它的製作，但是要有一定的角色。那我就問你，你們現在諮議委員會的委員有沒有官方代表？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒有。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在是完全沒有嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒有。"],["牛委員煦庭：這樣的狀況會不會影響國家推動客家文化的保存和相關傳播的渠道？包含政策的宣導，會不會影響？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：因為公共電視台在法律上有授權，它是一個獨立機關，目前諮議委員會是由他們的董事會所決定，民間各界會提出建議，所以在這個過程當中，站在我們是官方的立場，雖然我們主管客家事務，對所有客家事務都非常關心，但是另一方面，基於尊重公共傳播媒體的立場，除非有出現重大爭議，我們儘量不表達意見，以減少對他們的干涉，不過如果真的有重大政策，我們會知會它，但是不會干涉和要求。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，這個算回答得很清楚，那我們就針對捐助這件事情來做一下討論。主委應該可以看到螢幕上面寫得非常清楚，客委會歷年來都是以捐助的方式來處理，近年預算有逐步增加，這對客家文化保存、推動客家語言來講當然是一件好事，但第一個是執行率好像有一定的落差，這一部分要請客委會加強檢討。第二個就是我剛剛講的，既然已經在捐助的過程中，你們一直以來都等於是出資的單位，剛剛你的回答我算可以接受，就是官方如果沒有代表，要尊重公共電視的主體性，這個本席可以接受。但是我要提一下，根據我們預算中心的一些資料，製播的節目當中，自製的比例好像不夠高喔！政府每年花了很多的錢，我們是希望相對來講可以鼓勵創新，產出很多和客家相關的、自製性的節目，但是客家電視台自製節目的比例好像不夠高，是不是可以請主委說明一下為什麼？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告一下，這是長期大家非常關心的問題，不過自製率的提升，也就表示說每部新的節目都要在資源平均分配的狀況下去製作，這樣就很難做出比較好的節目，所以後來我們和公共電視討論的結果是，希望將一定部分的資源集中做比較精彩而且比較好的節目上，讓這些作品可以繼續流傳。如果我們平均地把經費分配出去做比較的作品，也就是說每部作品所分到的經費會降低，就沒有辦法做出比較高水準的節目，所以過去我們在金鐘獎經常得獎，那些大體都是我們集中資源做出來的節目，我們希望能用IP經營的概念，長期將這些好的節目未來能夠透過其他的平台傳播出去。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，因為我時間有限，這個就給你看一下，參考啦！從比例上來講，以公視的主頻來講，它大概都有四成左右的製播率，客家台大概是22%，原民台大概是23%到24%。照理來講、以創作的量能來講、當然就像我們講的以族群的現實來講，原民的數量是相對少的，所以它的製播率比較沒有那麼高，這個我們還覺得情有可原。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：但是你就客家的人口比例上來講，本席認為潛力其實是很夠的，所以我們是希望，既然提撥預算的比例是上升的，相對來講，製播率也要稍微要求。當然你講，我平均分配資源，然後讓這個節目內容很精彩，這個方向本席是可以理解，但是我覺得你還是要逐步要求，讓它慢慢地往上走嘛！好歹也要看到一個上升趨勢線，才能夠表示我們政府投入是鼓勵客家族群的創作等等有更好的成績。主委，是不是同意這樣的看法？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員補充一下，剛剛同事給我的資料，目前自製的比例應該是有70%，文化部的規定是50%，但目前有70%。"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊！至少要有50%嘛！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們會朝著這個方向，對於捐助的內容不干涉，但是對於形式上資源的分配會給予建議。"],["牛委員煦庭：你講的70%是指今年會有70%的成績嗎？你可以補充說明，沒有關係。"],["廖處長美玲：目前在112年的統計就有達到70%以上，跟委員報告。"],["牛委員煦庭：那落差為什麼會這麼大？你們做了什麼政策的調整？"],["廖處長美玲：之前計算時數的部分，新聞節目的部分沒有計入。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以新聞計入之後，自製率就提高很多，是不是？好，沒關係，這個我們一樣來做逐年的檢討，我們是希望創新的比例啦！因為新聞相對來講，製作門檻是比較低的，但是其它內容產製上面，我們還是希望可以多加油。","第二個我也要講，「新首播比率」這個我沒有做成投影片，但以新首播比率來講，就是我剛剛講的這一張，這個是新首播，我剛剛有一點講錯，我再提醒一下主委。這個就是新的東西產出來了嘛！因為主委剛剛有講，你說我們的這個自製率沒有麼高是因為我要把量能維持在做新創的節目，但是新創的比例其實也沒有很高。這兩件事情我們都希望隨著你預算的投入可以逐年上升，至少就這個方向來講，我想主委應該不會反對這個努力的方向吧？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：不反對，但是要跟委員報告，像公共電視從去年開始我們就進行合作，客家電視台就推出了名叫「星空下的黑潮島嶼」，敘述的是綠島相關的歷史，這個戲劇製作的經費就相當地高，所以如果說我們將來要把這部作品在OTT平台或是其他地方能夠播出……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，這些方向本席也都同意。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：資源就要集中啦！"],["牛委員煦庭：但是我希望，既然都有……其實你們是有努力的嘛！從剛剛答詢的過程中，其實可以看得到客委會是有一些角色的。我們希望把這個客家電視台的部分……雖然你要尊重公共電視，我同意，但你還是要把一些節目產製的內容和數據總是可以做一下統計調查，就寫在你的業務報告裡面嘛！你不用特別叫它專門弄一本，但是在業務報告裡面要增加相關的一些說明，這樣我們答詢的時間就可以降下來，可以談一些更重要的問題，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：OK，我們將來可以把這個部分的概況加進報告裡面。"],["牛委員煦庭：再來，最後一個小問題，我們現在都講ESG是一個很重要的概念，對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒錯。"],["牛委員煦庭：112年的全國客家日你們有頒發多元文化企業的社會責任，就是客語友善企業獎，用鼓勵的方式，這一點是不錯的，遠東百貨、全家便利商店跟中華郵政因為有多做客語服務，所以就鼓勵它們，這是好事。當然，這個東西現在也在跟金管會、文化部、原民會開會研商，促進金融管理委員會修正這個企業社會責任的實務守則，希望把多元語言……我們現在就是在推廣多元語言，要納入社會公益ESG的範圍，這件事情現在有進度嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：向委員報告，目前文化部、原民會和客委會開會的時候，對於條文內容已有共識，目前正進一步跟金管會討論。金管會目前考慮的是，有關S的部分，世界各國其實都較不瞭解要怎麼做，要列進去這個多元文化的時候，接下來是不是有其他議題要列入，這個還需要考量。目前為止看起來困難不大，我會繼續去協調如何比較周全地思考，不然將來如果有其他單位提出要加入什麼的話，其他各個部會也會說還有什麼要列入……"],["牛委員煦庭：從你的角度因難不大，但是金管會會不會覺得困難很大？因為這是一個跨部會要協商的問題。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：並不會覺得困難很大，但是金管會因為要考慮到其他的部會，屆時可能會提出其他的事情，先評估一下整體的情況。"],["牛委員煦庭：正在評估？大概什麼時候會有一個比較具體的結果？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們希望……"],["牛委員煦庭：你們希望，好，可以。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：目前三個部會的結論是希望在這個月，我們已經發文給金管會了，會進一步面對面開會。"],["牛委員煦庭：會進一步開會研商？這個月會有結果是不是？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：有相對結果的時候要讓內政委員會的委員知道。可以嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，感謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委辛苦了，謝謝。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝我們牛煦庭委員的質詢。","下一位請我們張宏陸委員，再來到黃捷委員我們就休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 5案(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(二)大陸委員會\n函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照\n案、(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書\n面報告，請查照案、(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預\n算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案","agenda_id":"1132501_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":4.283468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.5372187500000001,"end":2.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.1234687500000002,"end":2.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.42721875,"end":2.8997187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.392218750000001,"end":12.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.51846875,"end":13.649093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.121593750000002,"end":15.285968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.817218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.53846875,"end":21.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.52534375,"end":70.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.01159375,"end":145.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.50596875000002,"end":155.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.43284375000002,"end":157.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.85034375,"end":160.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.30534375000002,"end":178.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.06721875000002,"end":173.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.19284375,"end":190.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.07284375,"end":216.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.00971875000002,"end":231.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.97784375,"end":236.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.80409375000002,"end":236.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.52971875000003,"end":285.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.81159375000001,"end":243.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.57284375,"end":288.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.49221875,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.91221875,"end":368.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.05346875000004,"end":369.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.07034375,"end":370.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.63971875000004,"end":420.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.77784375000005,"end":377.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.91284375000004,"end":377.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.85409375,"end":403.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.23534375,"end":444.68721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.60471875,"end":432.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.68721875000006,"end":448.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.07534375,"end":445.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.95659375,"end":450.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.80409375000005,"end":458.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.92971875,"end":460.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.61721875,"end":461.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.79846875000004,"end":466.65846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.31659375000004,"end":498.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.71971875,"end":481.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.15221875000003,"end":493.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.56471875000005,"end":500.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.21846875000006,"end":517.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.7222187500001,"end":530.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.43721875,"end":552.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.21909375,"end":554.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.7209687500001,"end":554.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.22284375,"end":554.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.77971875,"end":555.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.30284375,"end":580.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.12471875,"end":561.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.08534375,"end":570.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.2709687500001,"end":570.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.2622187500001,"end":572.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.32971875,"end":574.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.1015937500001,"end":574.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.26596875,"end":575.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.98721875,"end":577.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.06284375,"end":583.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.03721875,"end":581.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.04534375,"end":583.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.0790937500001,"end":583.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.0959687500001,"end":583.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.33221875,"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主委早安今天有幾件事情要跟您做一下政策的討論第一個我先從這個業務報告開始因為大家都知道我們現在這個由公共電視文化事業基金會來做這個客家電視台"},{"start":38.675,"end":55.688,"text":"那我們的客家公共傳播基金會來做講客廣播電台嘛那我們現在在講說要推廣客家文化的時候其實來講這個媒體的渠道還是有它的影響力還是蠻重要的所以我想要問一下第一個問題就是說我們有看到這個公共傳播基金會的業務報告"},{"start":57.49,"end":69.844,"text":"當然就是講客廣播電臺的推動狀況但是我們沒有看到客家電視臺相關的推動狀況連你的業務報告裡面好像也沒有寫到多少東西這個原因是什麼?你要不要說明一下?老委員報告,客家電視臺過去的客家委員會額部計劃中總結表案"},{"start":78.033,"end":85.059,"text":"二、經濟公共推出公眾天使臺盤利．公共天使臺盤利．公共天使臺盤利．公共天使臺盤利．公共天使臺盤利．公共天使臺盤利．公共天使臺盤利．"},{"start":102.754,"end":108.42,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":125.578,"end":129.763,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":146.584,"end":171.003,"text":"好所以基本上這個業務還是交給公共電視台負責嘛那你們講說基於公共性就不多做干涉這我越理解但我要問一下我們是改捐助啦捐助我知道等一下我們會討論這個問題因為你講這個公共電視文化基金會客家電視台也有一個資義委員會嘛也就是說雖然它有一定的公共性但相對來講我們從推動客家文化的角度來講你還是要有一定的角色嘛"},{"start":171.263,"end":190.382,"text":"我們當然不是講說去干涉它的製作嘛對不對但是要有一定的角色那我就問你們現在的質疑委員會的委員有沒有有沒有官方代表現在是完全沒有是不是那這個覺得這樣子的狀況會不會影響國家推動客家文化的保存跟相關傳播一定的渠道包含政策的宣導會不會影響"},{"start":191.101,"end":193.022,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":208.313,"end":226.407,"text":"其餘的官方當然主管客家事務對所有客家事務都關心但人外方面竟然遵從公共傳播媒體的立場除非有出現衝突的社運事件請勿表達意見檢討對其的觀察不過像說有衝突的政策本來是在地的只不過是指揮在地的天天沒有去觀察或要求"},{"start":237.574,"end":252.39,"text":"好 這個算回答得很清楚那我們就針對這個捐助這件事情我們來做一下討論這個主委應該可以看到螢幕上面寫得非常清楚這個我們這個歷年來都是以捐助的方式來處理那近年來你可以看到預算有逐步增加"},{"start":253.451,"end":272.851,"text":"這對客家文化保存推動客家語言來講當然是件好事但是第一個是執行率好像有一定的落差這一部分要請客委會加強檢討那第二部分就是我剛剛講你既然已經在這個捐助的過程中你一直以來都等於是出資的單位那剛剛你的回答我現在算可以接受"},{"start":273.671,"end":299.565,"text":"官方如果沒有代表然後要尊重公共電視的主體性這個本席可以接受但是我要提一下這個根據我們這個預算中心的一些資料你可以看到我們的這個叫做自播節目我們的比例好像自製的比例好像不夠高因為我們政府每天花了很多的錢我們是希望說相對來講可以鼓勵創新然後產出很多跟客家相關的自製性的節目但是我們在客家電視台裡面自製的比例好像沒有"},{"start":300.185,"end":301.866,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":318.459,"end":320.24,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":340.655,"end":348.418,"text":"二、民意補助品所分配的金費較大：無法製造出有納稅的節目：所以過去才有一個金融獎：加上有納豆獎品、獎項：代替了10種職員做出新的節目：希望用IP經營的空間創起更好的節目：將來透過其他平台出席"},{"start":369.511,"end":380.766,"text":"因為時間有限這個就給你看一下參考比例上來講以公視的主評來講他大概都有4成左右的製播率客家台大概是22%原民台大概是23%到24%照理來講這個"},{"start":384.09,"end":385.911,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":403.7,"end":405.681,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":434.201,"end":438.086,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":452.867,"end":476.899,"text":"目前在112年的統計就有達到70%以上跟委員報告了。這落差為什麼會這麼大?你們做了什麼政策的調整?之前的計算時數的部分新聞節目的部分沒有記錄。所以新聞記錄之後知識率就提高很多是不是?好沒關係這我們就一樣來做逐年的檢討我們是希望創新的比例因為新聞相對來講製作門檻是比較低的"},{"start":478.12,"end":479.581,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":501.277,"end":530.476,"text":"我們的這個自播自製率沒有那麼高是因為我要把量能維持在做新創的節目但新創的比例其實也沒有很高這兩件事情我們都希望隨著你預算的投入可以逐年來上升這至少這個方向來講我想主委應該不會反對這樣努力的方向吧沒有反對但是要讓委員報告像今年公衆天使從去年那天開始經常合作推出兩個客家天使團由在很多黑潮天空下的"},{"start":533.486,"end":541.529,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":555.373,"end":557.274,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":583.442,"end":606.663,"text":"再來最後一個小問題就是我們現在都講我們現在都講說ESG是很重要的一個概念對不對那這個112年的全國客家日你們有頒發多元文化企業的社會責任就客語友善企業獎用鼓勵的方式這一點是不錯的那這個遠東百貨全家便利商店跟中華郵政因為有多做客語服務所以就鼓勵他這是好事那當然這個東西現在"},{"start":608.584,"end":626.762,"text":"也在跟金管會跟文化部跟原委會大概在開會延長促進金融管理委員會修正這個企業社會責任的實務守則希望把多元語言就是講我們現在要推廣多元語言要納入社會公益的ESG的範圍這件事情現在有進度嗎"},{"start":627.972,"end":629.533,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":644.82,"end":645.501,"text":"從你的角度困難不大"},{"start":673.098,"end":674.24,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":692.799,"end":696.362,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"}]}},{"id":"150900","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150900","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981c5c2efa2c8c4eaf05942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a680b85fe0fbca5ac45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"10:29:06 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10:40:13","影片長度":"00:11:07","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":667,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:40:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:29:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":516,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好。針對這次地震發生過程，大家都感受到非常非常的嚴重，有很多人失去家人、失去家園，也有很多人受傷，我想大家都同感不捨。作為這些受影響國人的後盾，政府應該可以提供一些援助，請問這部分勞動部有哪一些相關措施已經啟動了？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們第一時間，也就是4月3號當天就馬上啟動臨工措施，就是針對因為這次地震受損需要重建家園的民眾，我們提供2,000個臨工機會，每個勞工每個月上班工作時數最高150小時，以時薪183元計算，最高可以領到27,470元的補助。另外後來行政院也公告花蓮是災區，針對災區的這些就保、勞保、職保被保險人，我們依照災保法規定，提供他們6個月的保險費補助。另外就是他那一天如果因為這個天災受傷、沒有辦法工作，而且沒有得到原來的薪資給付，那我們就是從他受傷當天開始就給他傷病給付，這些都是我們已經開始啟動的。"],["王委員正旭：謝謝，我想勞動部這樣的作為應該會讓這些勞工朋友或者他的家人得到很大的幫助，其實我們也知道有礦工、有邊坡修復員，剛剛也有委員提到，因為他們在工作期間遭遇不幸，所以我想勞動部提供完整的協助，對他們來講應該是幫助很大，而這也是勞動部該有的作為。同時我們也知道，勞動部其實也要像這樣提供臨時工作機會來協助災區的復原，而災區本身就有它高的風險，有關這一部分，不知道勞動部在針對勞工進入相關災區進行復原的時候，怎麼去確保這些人員的安全？目前的積極作為包括哪一些？"],["許部長銘春：其實他就是做一些比較簡易的清理工作，並不是去拆傾倒的建築物或從事其他危險的工作，我們這種臨工都是比較簡易而安全的工作，主要是清理家園，做一些清潔的工作或垃圾清運等等。"],["王委員正旭：希望他們不要再受傷，或者是至少在他們上工之前也要給他們必要的訓練。"],["許部長銘春：不會、不會，因為這個臨工措施已經施行多年，各縣市政府、鄉鎮公所都很有經驗，他們派工都很有經驗。另外跟委員報告，臨工也有加勞保，包括勞健保都有，還有職保。"],["王委員正旭：所以該有的保障都會在一開始就處理好？"],["許部長銘春：都有、都有，雖然是簡易的清理工，萬一受傷也一樣受我們職保的保障。"],["王委員正旭：OK，這樣非常好，至少在他們上工之前，就知道他們是受到完整的保護。","那我們就來談談育嬰假彈性化的部分，其實我們之前就知道，女性經濟力是很值得繼續提升的，不過我們也看到還是有四個比較容易受影響的問題，針對這部分不知道如何能夠完善員工的職場育兒？包括對女性同仁他們在經濟力付出的過程當中所受到的一些影響，這部分有沒有更完善的職場環境的一些建構？"],["許部長銘春：其實我們這幾年一直針對如何營造友善的生養環境在努力，包括像我們也鼓勵男性一起來參與育兒，所以我們在整個申請的條件，以前是只能父母親單方申請，現在則是分別或同時申請都可以；另外有關育嬰留職停薪申請的日數，以前是要六個月以上，現在只要滿三十天就可以申請短期的育嬰留停。再者是有關津貼的部分，因為經濟常常是最主要的考量，所以除了原有的育嬰留停六成以外，另外公務預算也補貼了兩成的薪資補助，這些都是希望讓育兒的部分能夠更優化。"],["王委員正旭：是，所以才會有試辦計畫嘛，希望能夠有更好的可能性，讓這些……"],["許部長銘春：對，試辦計畫就是針對很多委員還有各界的一些倡議，希望更彈性，所以我們現在也在做這樣的方向研議，就是說職場上先試辦看看，等到整個有一個成效之後，我們再來思考未來整個制度要怎麼建構得更友善，我們會朝這個方向來努力。"],["王委員正旭：當然也更鼓勵男性的職場同仁能夠共同分擔家庭育兒的照顧，看起來是慢慢地有在增加，今天聽您的報告裡面也提到的確有明顯的成長，不過我們看下一個畫面就知道，到今年年初事實上還是只有三成左右，我們很期待這樣的努力可以透過部裡面的宣傳，讓社會大眾，尤其是在育兒的家庭，有更多的男性同仁可以一起來參與，這部分期待你們繼續加強。"],["許部長銘春：好，我們會持續的宣導。"],["王委員正旭：我們目前在積極推動彈性育嬰假的試辦計畫，早上也有聽您報告試辦的內容以及配套的誘因，當然目前還談不上修法，期待透過這個試辦計畫以後再做相關的處理。在這份報告裡面您有提到勞動部及所屬各個機關也希望都能夠參與試辦，針對這一部分，雖然是5月才開始，不知道你們有沒有瞭解看看各個單位試辦的參與情形？"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，公部門的部分有四家國營機構參與，本部及所屬包含勞保局、發展署還有發展署分署，我們都帶頭加入來試辦。原來是想要在5月1號上路，但因為委員也認為我們應該要把整個計畫讓它更完整、更有誘因，所以我們在3月28號也跟一些關心這個議題的民間團體開會，然後也在4月2號跟銓敘部等相關部會開過會，邀集銓敘部、人總，還有勞保局、中央健保署研議配套措施，看看怎麼樣能有適當的誘因，所以針對這個部分，我也交代業務單位說我們是不是讓這個制度調整得更完整以後再來正式上路，這樣可能會比較好一點。"],["王委員正旭：其實公私部門如果能夠互相激勵的話……"],["許部長銘春：私部門也不少，包括公私部門一共有六十三個單位已經表明要來參與的意願，所以我們後續也會開說明會，針對這些民間企業也要開說明會，告訴他們相關的一些規範。"],["王委員正旭：OK，因為我們上週有詢問過相關部門，那時候貴單位是說因為尊重參與單位，所以不方便提供參與名單，不過今天聽部長講，覺得公部門如果能夠共同來參與，而且是真的願意積極來參與的話，相信對私部門來講，也有很大的鼓勵或引導的作用。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["王委員正旭：最後，其實我們也很關心國軍，我們知道，國軍大部分都是以男性為主，八成五是屬於男性的軍士官，女性相對比較少，我們也看到國軍申請育嬰假的人數，男性還是相對偏低，其實如果能夠提高男性育嬰留停的比例，國防部應該可以變成一個指標，不知道國防部有沒有什麼樣的鼓勵措施？"],["孔處長乃德：委員好，我是國防部人事參謀次長室人管處處長孔乃德，因為時間不多，我簡要跟您報告一下：我先從數據來講，我們從107年到112年，針對育嬰留職停薪的人員，相關補助從792元提升到112年的1,738元，成長幅度是217%。其中男性的比例，男性在107年是占30%，到了112年是到46%，今年到目前為止相關比例也是概同。我在這邊無意特別凸顯好像我們國軍很好、國防部很好，其他部會不好，其實也未必，因為當中有一些人力結構問題，國軍畢竟是男性比較多，但是就整個數量來講，我們配合的相關政策一直在宣導，然後再加上國軍的三安政策──部隊安全、軍眷安心、軍人安家，這樣的政策推廣之後，建構優質的服役環境，我相信未來攸關所有同仁權益的事情，我們都會全力來推動。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝說明，那就大家繼續努力，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員。"],["主席：現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時40分）","繼續開會（10時50分）"],["主席：現在請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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10:29:03","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":580,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:29:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:19:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":447,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時19分）有請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我請問一下，4月3日當天您在哪裡？"],["許部長銘春：正在地震的時候，我剛要出門。"],["邱委員鎮軍：剛要出門啊？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：您有收到國家警報嗎？"],["許部長銘春：沒有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：沒有嘛！本席也沒有收到，我也瞭解有很多人沒有收到。因為地震當時正處於通勤的尖峰時段，這種情況讓很多勞工朋友都沒有反應的時間，在這邊我想請問部長，勞動部在維護勞工安全的立場上，有什麼想跟氣象署反映的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我是覺得這部分，因為這次的地震，的確有很多人反映說都沒有收到國家的警報，所以我是覺得這部分他們秉於專業，應該再來做一些檢討。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，我希望勞動部這邊，基於對勞工安全的考量，也希望部長替我們廣大的勞工來發聲，關於這個部分，請氣象署來做一個改進，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這次花蓮的地震，剛好在上班時間或在路途中，根據勞動部的掌握，總共造成多少勞工的傷亡？"],["許部長銘春：目前死亡人數是3位，受傷的4位，這是勞工的部分，就是因為工作的，目前我們掌握到的是4位。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那在上班的途中呢？"],["許部長銘春：上班途中的，目前還在陸續瞭解當中，因為這幾天大家都忙著救災，所以有些人數的統計上，我們還會持續來瞭解。"],["邱委員鎮軍：針對傷亡的人，有沒有展開相關的職災補助申請？"],["許部長銘春：有，個案的部分都有先做一些輔導，還有包括告知他們的權益。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我看到有一位罹難者是修復邊坡的工作人員，勞動部對於這部分的廠商投保狀況有沒有掌握？"],["許部長銘春：我請署長說明一下。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員，這位是公路局東區養護工程分局下包商一個營造公司的勞工，他準備要去做邊坡維護的時候，在路途中被落石砸死，屬於通勤事故，這個在勞保部分應該是交通部相關的合約……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，我想問的是，他是有固定雇主的勞工，還是勞務承攬的部分？"],["鄒署長子廉：是固定雇主，是一個營造公司僱用的勞工。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以他的投保都沒有問題？"],["鄒署長子廉：應該要看這家家祥公司有沒有投勞保，不過這部分的職災保險，勞工只要有上工就可以了，就沒有問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：就沒有問題？"],["鄒署長子廉：對，職災保險沒有問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這些因為工傷而造成的狀況，希望勞動部能夠放寬、從寬處理，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，這個沒有問題，因為我們的災保法有修過，只要上工就可以。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外這次大地震很多建築工地的吊塔有掉落情形，顯示吊塔的耐震度好像有點不足，關於這個部分，勞動部有沒有具體的新作法？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，我們第一時間就要求各營造公司針對設有塔吊要進行自動檢查，目前我們掌握的總共有7個塔吊有發生一些錯矩或可能會掉落的狀況，我們已經要求他停止作業，如果……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們之前的標準是什麼？"],["鄒署長子廉：結構壞掉的話，當然就要廢止那個結構。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那個是受損的，我現在講的是我們之前的標準在哪裡？"],["鄒署長子廉：有，我們有一個固定式起重機結構強度的標準，我們有訂一個標準。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你認為之前的標準符合規定，那還有沒有必要再加強？"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，這個設定標準一定有一定強度的規範，當然，針對這個地震，我們也可以再對這個規範進行檢討，如果強度不足，當然就要往上拉升。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望檢討一下，因為那個掉下來實在是非常的危險。"],["鄒署長子廉：好，那當然，當然。"],["邱委員鎮軍：以前的標準，我相信都有做到，但因應未來這種狀況，希望可以再檢討有沒有提高標準的需要。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員的建議，我們會請業務單位再檢討精進。"],["邱委員鎮軍：再請問部長，臺美二十一世紀貿易倡議極有可能於今年夏天簽署第二批協定，並納入消除強迫勞動的規範，因應這個規範，請問部長，勞動部將會有哪些重大的調整？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們認為這個世紀貿易倡議有助於我國持續建構更完整的勞動保護制度，所以這個部分後續的一些討論，我們也會來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們什麼時候會有結果？"],["許部長銘春：因為這是經貿辦在主導，我們配合他的進度。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，因為這個以後也應該會處理，所以我認為有時間就可以先做，好不好？就是你們自己先討論一下。"],["許部長銘春：是，目前我們都有針對一些關心的議題做一些內部的討論。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。還是回到我們今天的議題，近年來因為少子化問題，政府積極打造友善生育環境，本席看到這次勞動部的書面報告，表示110年7月起，大幅縮短申請育嬰留職停薪門檻以及提高津貼二成後，確實已經有助於提升勞工申請育嬰假的意願。針對勞動部實施育嬰假彈性放寬獲得不錯成效，我要請問銓敘部，在公務人員部分，是否會跟進為30日或以日為單位？"],["王司長永大：跟委員報告，目前公務人員的育嬰留職停薪，只需要被撫養者未滿3足歲都可以申請，沒有申請下限，也就是說，期間長短並沒有限制。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以他們已經沒有限制了，對不對？"],["王司長永大：對，沒有限制。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，如果沒有跟到，應該要儘快配合上來。再請問部長，這次試辦採5日、7日為單位，也可以用單日，但卻限制以3次為限，這樣的作法是為了什麼？"],["許部長銘春：當初的考量是為了給事業單位可能的人力調配空間，當然，如果勞僱雙方同意，我覺得也無妨，如果優於我們的試辦原則也OK，因為我們這次的原則就是一個試辦性質，讓他們自願參加……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那要試辦到什麼時候？"],["許部長銘春：我們原來是到年底。"],["邱委員鎮軍：到年底？"],["許部長銘春：到年底，對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我是這樣認為，如果已經確定，希望這個部分能夠確實處理，因為限制3次，我覺得好像沒有必要。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，沒關係，這其實就是一個原則，我的意思是，我們試辦之後，會看整個試辦結果來做檢討，如果未來的一些機制要建立，也不一定是限制3次，我們就是看整個試辦成效來作為未來制度訂定的參考。"],["邱委員鎮軍：最後再請問，為落實友善生育環境，現在農保條例、公教人員保險法都已經修法取消生育給付的投保年資限制，但勞工保險條例卻仍然維持在分娩、早產及流產等生育給付必須要年滿281天、滿181天及滿84天的規定，我覺得這樣對勞工非常不公平，勞動部有沒有想過要修法？"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，因為勞保加保門檻比其他職域的保險低，而且納保對象多元，包括雇主、自營作業者、移工等等通通是對象，如果刪除加保日數的規定，我們怕有人懷孕期間僅加保一日就可以請領，這樣會把原來應該由其他社會保險負擔的生育給付，變成轉嫁到勞工保險來負擔，這個部分是不是妥適，我覺得還是要謹慎。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得限制的天數好像有點久，當然有一點限制我也贊成，但希望勞動部再討論一下，看有沒有下修的可能，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好，我們再來討論看看。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員發言。","接下來請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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10:19:14","影片長度":"00:10:11","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":611,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:19:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:09:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":365,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時9分）謝謝主席。請一下部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["許部長銘春：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長你好。4月3號早上發生了7.2級的有感地震，當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了，勞工因為地震沒有辦法準時上班、出勤等等，雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或曠職，也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理，對不對？有發布這個新聞嘛！"],["許部長銘春：有。"],["涂委員權吉：請問一下，這個規定是不是依照「天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資給付要點」來辦理，是不是以這項要點來辦理？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["涂委員權吉：對嘛！因為這個是勞動部天然災害的要點嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，沒有錯。"],["涂委員權吉：請問這個要點的法律屬性是哪一種性質，是行政規則嗎？"],["許部長銘春：行政規則。"],["涂委員權吉：如果雇主沒有依照這個要點來辦理，還是算勞工遲到或者曠工，有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們？"],["許部長銘春：有，就看他違反的情況，會對應到條文。"],["涂委員權吉：如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定，還是沒有給員工全勤或者那天沒有給薪水，這樣子有什麼處置？"],["許部長銘春：這個就是違反勞基法第二十二條。"],["涂委員權吉：違反勞基法第二十二條，所以如果像4月3日那一天，勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者曠工，那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["涂委員權吉：是嘛！"],["許部長銘春：全勤獎金不影響，但是薪資的部分，因為這個是天災，天災是不可抗力的，不可抗力是他們協商……"],["涂委員權吉：薪資的部分，那天是會發還是不發？"],["許部長銘春：他們協商。"],["涂委員權吉：那遲到的部分呢？"],["許部長銘春：不能算遲到啊！那個不能算遲到。"],["涂委員權吉：不能算遲到，所以全勤獎金是一定有的，不能因為那一天……"],["許部長銘春：對，他算全勤。"],["涂委員權吉：因為那一天地震的關係遲到，不能扣他的全勤獎金。"],["許部長銘春：那一天不能算他遲到，所以那一天不能扣他。"],["涂委員權吉：所以薪水的部分是要協商？"],["許部長銘春：薪水的部分是協商，因為這個是不可抗力的，一般就像颱風的時候一樣，颱風也是會停止上班、上課……"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們依勞基法第二十二條來辦理，遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金，但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["涂委員權吉：因為我們現在也碰到很多問題，針對雇主跟勞工這部分，我們也沒有一個明確，所以今天才要請問一下部長，因為……"],["許部長銘春：其實委員，沒關係，如果委員您服務的民眾有問題，也可以打1955，我們都會有專員……"],["涂委員權吉：對，針對這部分，所以我們看這個要點的處理，就是也不能說他遲到，也不能扣他的全勤獎金，可是我看勞動部又有一個行政函釋第4560號函，裡面又說，遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商，明定團體協約或工作規則中。所以我們現在有點不瞭解，到底是以勞基法來處理，還是以行政函釋第4560號函來處理，還是依這個要點來處理？我覺得有點混淆不清。"],["許部長銘春：委員，這個函釋的遲到是指真正的遲到，而那一天地震不能算遲到。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們現在就很明確，類似那一天這種天災，假設颱風或地震等等……"],["許部長銘春：簡單講，就沒有遲到的問題。"],["涂委員權吉：就沒有遲到的問題，所以全勤獎金一定要發，但是上班當天給不給付薪水，則是由勞資協商來辦理，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對，這個函釋是指譬如說，他晚個10分鐘、20分鐘，你要不要扣他全勤獎金，就是看情況啦！"],["涂委員權吉：好，所以我們現在確定……"],["許部長銘春：但是剛剛地震的情況不一樣，那個不能視為遲到。"],["涂委員權吉：因為地震，所以當天不能以遲到來論，全勤獎金要照發，可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商，對嘛？所以變成如果雇主沒有依據這個來辦理，我們有勞基法第二十二條來辦理，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["涂委員權吉：好，至少讓雇主跟勞工有一個明確的依據。","還有，有關職業安全衛生法第十八條的退避權，請問部長，這個退避權的定義、意思是怎麼樣？"],["許部長銘春：就是你工作的場所有危險的時候，勞工就可以選擇不工作。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我請問一下，那天發生地震，我們覺得上班的途中也有這個狀況、有安全疑慮，這算不算在退避權之內？"],["許部長銘春：因為還沒有到達工作場所，所以不算。"],["涂委員權吉：我是建議啦！因為是上班途中，其實他上班途中，他已經要去上班了，但是如果現在發生類似地震這種重大危害的問題，對於上班的通勤時間，我建議勞動部可以考慮一下，應該也是要納入，因為他現在要去公司上班，這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時？"],["許部長銘春：上班的通勤應該是可以比照天災，就像剛剛颱風那個情況。"],["涂委員權吉：所以是可以嘛？"],["許部長銘春：不是，這兩個是不一樣的概念。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊，就是我現在要去上班，我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了。"],["許部長銘春：就是當地、你要到達的地方已經宣布停止上班上課了，那你就可以不用過去了。"],["涂委員權吉：所以就納入天災比照辦理？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["涂委員權吉：好。接著我請問一下，我們今天有討論育嬰的部分，現在針對育兒勞工的需求，我知道勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼，但是感覺這個催生措施的效果並不是很好，是不是有機會調整育兒留職停薪津貼的部分？因為現在是0到3歲，但現在國家基本、中央的政策是0到6歲國家養，所以我們建議把育嬰留職停薪的津貼改成育兒留職停薪的津貼，也就是0到6歲，針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助，等於放寬到滿6歲。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個部分，現在其實很多委員有在倡議，像涂委員您是主張6歲，也有人主張8歲，有人是主張到學齡前，這個部分我覺得可以來討論，只是因為會牽涉到財源……"],["涂委員權吉：沒有，這個我先說明一下，它的補助是一樣的，只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲，把育嬰留職停薪的津貼放寬到育兒留職停薪的津貼。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，如果這樣……"],["涂委員權吉：補助一樣啦！只是從3歲放寬到6歲。"],["許部長銘春：到6歲其實會更多人啦！"],["涂委員權吉：會更多人，但是我覺得我們希望……"],["許部長銘春：所以財源上是必須考量，因為……"],["涂委員權吉：因為勞動部既然要催生，雖然你們一直加碼，但是催生的效果並不是很好，是不是針對這部分，以我們補助不增加的方式來做？"],["許部長銘春：這個少子化也是要跨部會一起來努力，勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境……"],["涂委員權吉：好，這部分勞動部再來參考一下。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["涂委員權吉：還有針對申請失業給付的部分，目前因傷病診療持有證明者，可以不用上就業諮詢或職業訓練，就可以申請失業給付，這一部分是不是可以放寬到有懷孕、分娩的申請人？就是原本他就有申請，可是因為現在懷孕或分娩，像有些醫生會診療說，他不適合下床、不適合外出等等，是不是也可以開醫生的診療證明，然後放寬，不用去上就業諮詢跟職業訓練？"],["許部長銘春：好像法令有規定，如果有醫院的證明，就是因傷病診療持有證明而無法參加者，就可以。"],["涂委員權吉：所以懷孕、分娩也在這個因傷病診療的範圍之內？"],["許部長銘春：對，要有醫師證明啦！"],["涂委員權吉：因為這個因傷病診療，我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他什麼工作傷害等等，而懷孕、分娩，像有些懷孕的婦女，醫生會診療說他要安胎，不適合下床、外出……"],["許部長銘春：對，因為有些人的體質是要整個臥床，甚至要臥床到生產，像這種情況，如果有醫生證明的話……"],["涂委員權吉：所以懷孕、分娩，只要開得出醫生證明，一樣可以請領失業給付，不用上就業諮詢跟職業訓練，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，實務上都會同意他們。"],["涂委員權吉：所以懷孕、分娩在申請給付這個申請人之內，一樣持這個因傷病診療證明，就可以不用去上這些課程？"],["許部長銘春：是，也在這個適用範圍。"],["涂委員權吉：好，謝謝，感謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員。"],["主席（黃委員秀芳）：謝謝涂權吉委員。","在這邊作以下宣告：等一下在王正旭委員質詢結束，休息10分鐘。","現在請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們"},{"start":92.924,"end":111.291,"text":"有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他權勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以"},{"start":114.432,"end":137.943,"text":"所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那一天會發還是不發他們協商"},{"start":139.164,"end":157.006,"text":"他沒協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權傾獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權傾獎金不能扣他"},{"start":157.366,"end":177.981,"text":"那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課的所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?"},{"start":179.182,"end":199.256,"text":"所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是"},{"start":200.037,"end":218.089,"text":"也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作"},{"start":218.909,"end":234.48,"text":"工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到"},{"start":235.563,"end":263.826,"text":"所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個還是在譬如說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全錢就是說你看情況啦"},{"start":264.386,"end":277.813,"text":"好,所以我們先來一個確定的但是剛剛地震的那個情況那不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全勤獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商"},{"start":280.755,"end":298.647,"text":"對嗎?勞資協商所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權請問一下部長這個退避權他的"},{"start":302.157,"end":326.017,"text":"你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我不工作了那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所"},{"start":329.815,"end":354.834,"text":"所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時"},{"start":355.695,"end":380.493,"text":"上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是 這兩個是不一樣的概念對啊 就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對 那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用"},{"start":381.934,"end":407.71,"text":"所以就納入這個天災比照辦理好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停"},{"start":408.59,"end":433.457,"text":"提供的部分現在是0到3歲因為現在國家的基本中央的政策是0到6歲國家養那我們這邊是不是建議把這個育嬰留職停薪的津貼可不可以改成育兒留職停薪的津貼也就是0到6歲來針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助等於放寬到滿6歲"},{"start":436.377,"end":447.168,"text":"拜託委員 這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像吳衛寧是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源"},{"start":454.656,"end":471.833,"text":"沒有沒有 這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲"},{"start":479.4,"end":495.969,"text":"會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分"},{"start":508.995,"end":537.927,"text":"我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以"},{"start":539.767,"end":557.974,"text":"開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊"},{"start":561.235,"end":588.123,"text":"對因為我們在因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個"},{"start":588.903,"end":588.923,"text":"委員．"}]}},{"id":"150897","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150897","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839815b5478b5daeb18575942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6c8f360352a3576305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"09:59:01 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10:08:59","影片長度":"00:09:58","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":598,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:08:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:59:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":340,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（9時59分）謝謝。主席，我們請許部長，還有請銓敘部相關的司長。"],["主席：請部長和銓敘部司長。"],["許部長銘春：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。今天特別提到有關育嬰留職停薪津貼的事情，我們看到在今年度2024年男性請領育嬰留職停薪的比例創新高，有25%。我想請教，其實我們看到男性的育嬰留職停薪雖然是衝到25%，但是我們看到另外一方面，有關男性公務人員申請育嬰留停，好像跟一般的男性勞工還是有一些落差，一般人會覺得男性公務人員的工作或者是薪資應該算是比一般的勞工還要好，另外很多人會覺得應該是男性的公務人員會更希望或更願意來申請育嬰留停，我想請教部長或者是銓敘部的司長，為什麼會有這樣的一個落差？"],["王司長永大：報告委員，現在公務人員男性育嬰留職停薪從107年到112年，事實上是從12%左右提升到18%左右，男性已經有提升，因為公務人員女性申請育嬰留停的人數比較多，整體而言，公務人員申請育嬰留停的，不管是男性或女性加總，占我們的母數大概將近2%左右，勞工的部分只占大概0.2%左右而已，也就是說公務人員留停的人數比例是高於勞工，只是因為公務人員的育嬰留職停薪津貼是以本俸計算，這個是因為開辦社會保險當初就是以本俸加保，跟勞工是以全薪加保不一樣。所以確實啦！公務人員的育嬰留職停薪津貼是會比勞工低一點，這個如果要改進，會涉及到整體公保財務的問題，如果要提高的話，可能還要提高繳費的費率，這個影響會比較大，我們部裡面會進一步去做一個評估。"],["黃委員秀芳：有沒有可能去做一個檢討，因為我們現在申請是用本俸，有沒有可能用實質的收入來列為育嬰留停的補貼，有沒有可能這樣做？"],["王司長永大：因為現在是社會保險這邊來給付六成，政府給付的部分是兩成，除非政府給付的部分要再提高，那就可能比較會有鼓勵作用，因為如果要從社會保險這一塊，就變成所有整體公務人員要提撥的保險費率又要增加的問題，因為公務人員三層保障跟勞工不一樣，公務人員是比較集中在職業年金這一塊，勞工是比較著重於勞保這一塊，這個是結構上的不一樣，所以這一塊如果要提高，留職停薪津貼可能政府看看這一塊要不要再去加碼提高。"],["黃委員秀芳：我是認為可以去做檢討啦！司長請回。","另外，我想請部長，勞工的部分也是一樣有高薪低報的這個問題，等到他要申請育嬰留停的時候就真的有差，如果用實際的投保薪資來申請的話，確實是會有影響。我想請教部長，針對育嬰留停，如果用實際的投保薪資來申請的話，因為勞工有一些是基本薪資，可能又有一些是他的專業加給或者是主管加給，加一加才有他現在實質領的，也許他的本薪也是只有最低薪資而已，其他都是林林總總加起來的，那有沒有可能也是朝著這個方向，就是用他實際上請領的薪資來申請？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們現在的規定是以所謂的月投保薪資來核付育嬰留停津貼的給付，那個月投保薪資是他的月薪資總額，要核實申報，所以基本上法律規定就是這樣，可是剛剛委員講到說，是不是高薪低報……"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，你應該也知道有很多是高薪低報。"],["許部長銘春：高薪低報，第一個，他會被處罰；第二個，勞工可以要求他賠償損失……"],["黃委員秀芳：其實有很多他原本的薪資就是用最低薪資，然後再加其他的職業加給或專業加給。"],["許部長銘春：如果是雇主高薪低報的話，那是違法的，第一個，他會被我們處罰；第二個，勞工的損失，因為高薪低報害他領不到他應有的這個津貼，這個差額是雇主要去賠償，所以這個部分是沒有問題的，我的意思是說，現在規定的月投保薪資講的就是你的月薪資的總額，所以這個部分是符合剛剛委員所講的。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，我要跟你講的是，實際上還是有這個狀況，他可能就是最低薪資，又加了專業加給或者是主管加給，或什麼樣的加給加起來，也許我們現在的基本薪資兩萬七千多，再加一加之後可能才有三萬多、四萬多，實際上，萬一他要開始請領這些育嬰留停，如果用最主要的基本薪資來請領的話，其實對勞工來講是損失的。我今天在講的就是，不管是軍公教勞，是不是有可能去做一個通盤的檢討，以他實際請領的薪資來做申請？"],["許部長銘春：這個部分我們會加強對雇主宣導，就是跟他講，這個薪資就是要核實申報，如果沒有核實申報，我們告訴他法律效果是什麼，第一個，會被處罰；第二個，要賠償損失，平常我們業務單位也都會向雇主端查核，我們也會透由這個查核來保障勞工的權益。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。剛剛有幾位委員也特別提到，我們育嬰留停是不是能夠更有彈性，現在可能是以月來計算，我們希望能夠以天或者是小時來計算，讓想要申請育嬰留停的人能夠更有彈性，請問部長是不是可以朝著這個方向來進行？"],["許部長銘春：我們現在就是希望透由試辦的這個方式來瞭解職場上的運作，還有能夠怎麼樣來推行，勞資雙方才能夠兼顧，所以這個部分我們會來努力，試辦就是要務實地去瞭解問題所在，擬出一套適合臺灣的制度。"],["黃委員秀芳：我們是希望這樣，因為小朋友如果還小的時候，尤其是在上幼兒園的時候，可能因為腸病毒等等，真的是時常請假，所以爸爸、媽媽其中有一位就需要帶小朋友去看病，所以如果可以讓家長能夠更有彈性的話，我覺得會有更多人會願意生也敢生，這是我們自己單方面的一個想法。當然，因為少子化，大家希望在這幾年想出是不是有什麼樣的方式能夠減少家長的負擔，讓他願意、能夠生養，所以除了勞動部之外，我們應該也要鼓勵企業，我一直認為勞動部應該也是要去鼓勵企業能夠有一個更好的環境，讓我們的勞工朋友在投入職場之後，他也願意生養，當然這個環境真的是非常的重要。剛剛我們也特別提到，男性的勞工也好，或者是男性的公務人員，其實申請育兒留停的比例真的是比較少，怎麼樣去鼓勵？當然就是保障收入，我覺得保障收入也是很重要。"],["許部長銘春：經濟因素其實是很大的考量。"],["黃委員秀芳：對，就是要有收入的保障，另外是假要有彈性，所以我們希望勞動部針對這部分應該要再去做一個滾動式的檢討，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員秀芳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員。","接下來請涂權吉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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所以我覺得如果可以讓家長能夠更有彈性的話,"},{"start":510.396,"end":523.031,"text":"我覺得會有更多人會願意生也敢生這是我們自己單方面的一個想法那當然就是說少子化大家希望就是說在這幾年是不是有什麼樣的方式減少這個家長的一個"},{"start":526.114,"end":526.835,"text":"國防部委員會主席"},{"start":548.812,"end":575.78,"text":"相同的就是投入職場之後他也願意生養當然這個環境真的是非常的重要那剛剛我們也特別提到就是說男性的這個勞工也好或這是男性的這個公務人員其實申請這個育兒這個比較少這個比例真的是比較少那怎麼樣去鼓勵那當然就是說保障收入保障收入我覺得這個也是很重要"},{"start":576.36,"end":576.38,"text":"謝謝黃委員"}]}},{"id":"150896","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150896","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981d1c257b162c42f4c3b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6642d8095ec2024595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"09:50:48 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10:03:32","影片長度":"00:12:44","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":764,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:03:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:50:48+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":253,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（9時50分）謝謝主席，有請客委會主委。"],["主席：請客委會楊主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：主委早。主委，不好意思，我聽不懂，可能要麻煩你，我的母語還是習慣用閩南語啦！所以我們就用普通、正常的方式來回應這樣就好。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：委員，我想我們因為有附口譯，是不是我們可以在國會當中儘量讓國家語言有表現的機會？"],["黃委員建賓：好的，謝謝主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝委員。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，客家人在臺東縣境內大概是4.4萬人，相較於我們原住民還有閩南人的人數算是少數，不過加上我們臺東特有的多元族群的共生環境，閩、客、原、新比鄰而居是很常見的情況。在臺東縣，我們族群之間的互動是非常良性且正面的，雖然我們臺東縣境內的客家人數遠不及其他的縣市，不過，因為我們這樣特殊的環境能夠造就我們臺東獨特的客家文化，我想這個是西部客家庄所沒有的，在這邊我要請教主委，我們行政院在110年推出的客庄369幸福計畫，它的內容應該是在台三線、六堆還有台九線各個客家區域的整體考量發展，其中台九線是貫穿整個花東縱谷，北從吉安鄉然後一直南到臺東鹿野鄉的這個幸福台九線計畫，主要是建立一些提供遊客休憩、販售在地農產品，還有我們青年交流驛站的據點，不過，主委，本席在這次你的報告書裡面怎麼沒有看到相關的執行計畫？是不是請主委說明一下？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：目前我們369這個計畫，台三線、六堆還有台九線都有進行，但是六堆和台三線形成比較完整的區域，東部台九線的部分，客家鄉鎮是點狀分布，像群島一樣的，所以做法上沒辦法一樣。針對這個議題來說，我們會加強這個地方觀光的部分。當然在語言教學的部分，我們會跟當地教育單位共同合作，像鳳林這個地方就有加強客語教育，在鳳林我們也跟地方人士共同合作加強地方產業，尤其是青年如何把自己的能力提升，來帶動地方的經濟，所以主要的方向，東部是加強觀光，還有青年創業、就業的部分，這三個部分是透過旅遊為主軸來推動。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委。主委剛才提到關於語言，還有觀光的部分，這邊我順便問一下關於觀光，主委在112年施政報告提到整合369客庄觀光旅遊產業特色資源這部分，有推出100條客庄行遊程，是不是？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，臺東縣客庄小旅行的景點在哪裡？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我請產業經濟處說明，因為在全臺灣主要是接受大家的申請，目前為止，當然是台三線和六堆來申請的數量較多，東部提出申請的可能比較少，因為我們是接受申請，如果沒有人申請可能就沒有，但是我們會積極輔導，同仁告知目前並沒有提出申請。"],["黃委員建賓：目前沒有嘛，對不對？這就是我要跟主委報告的，主委，臺東客庄小旅行的景點，我完全沒有找到。不過我從桐花旅遊的選項去選，選到花東只有花蓮有，主委知道臺東縣比較有名的觀光活動是熱氣球，熱氣球所在地就是在鹿野鄉，鹿野鄉裡面有一個叫做龍田桐花大道，主委去過嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒去過，不好意思。"],["黃委員建賓：其實這在網路上非常有名，所以這個應該也可以排得上名，是不是可以列在觀光裡面？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們會主動和地方聯絡，尤其因為現在小旅行主要是在地社團主動來接洽的，所以我想臺東的部分，我們會主動和在地社團接洽，看他們是不是可以協調一下有人可以提案。我們也很希望臺東可以有，不只是桐花，當然臺東開荒的時候有很多農業的工法值得看。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委，本席要講的就是臺東其實還是有一些景點啦！不要因為我們人口只有4.4萬人而忽略它。","另外要跟主委就教的就是，認識文化除了從語言以外就是從吃這個東西進入是最快理解的，我們在網頁同樣去找一個東西，就是在食在客庄裡面，關於我們的池上跟關山，它應該是介紹在地的客家美食是不是？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是。"],["黃委員建賓：可是我們在裡面發現簡介就是只出現玉里的臭豆腐，請問玉里在哪一個縣？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：玉里鄉在花蓮。"],["黃委員建賓：這個部分請主委會後好好確認。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們會加強臺東的部分。也跟委員報告，像「米國學校」那個據點附近，我們過去都有很多的投資下去。"],["黃委員建賓：有，謝謝主委，這剛好是本席要提到的，就是我們臺東縣池上鄉公所提出的客家文藝復興計畫，中央也有補助，剛才主委提到的「米國學校」旁邊有一棟舊建物改建成關山客庄傳藝中心，我想這點非常值得肯定，這是中央跟地方共同推動客家文化很好的一個示範！我記得關山鎮鎮公所在今年度也會提出一個地方創生的案子，是在我們關山火車站旁邊的舊鐵道，他們也承租下來，未來希望透過地方創生跟客委會爭取經費，希望能夠做一個地方青年創業的基地，讓年輕人能夠返鄉，然後未來成為一個商圈，這部分是不是可以請主委在會後如果收到計畫能夠支持我們關山鎮公所？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我有去現場跟鎮長一起看過，我也有答應，如果提出計畫，我們就來評估，所以整體的方向就是會支持。"],["黃委員建賓：我還是先謝謝主委，希望能夠來協助。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：另外補充一下，剛才我們同事查到，目前小旅行的部分，鹿野有一條路線，但我們會再增加，因為現在還不夠，我們會增加。"],["黃委員建賓：主委剛才也提到語言的部分，請問主委，客家話的「謝謝」怎麼講？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有很多種，四縣腔的「恁仔細」，海陸腔的「承蒙你」，東勢腔的「勞力」，詔安話也講「勞力」，南部客家比較習慣講「do qia」，全部聽……"],["黃委員建賓：主委，客家話因為有很多不同的腔調，所以有很多不同的表示方式，對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，臺東縣非常特殊，臺東縣是一個移民的城市，客家人雖然占了18%，可是多半是從桃、竹、苗、雲林、六堆來的，所以客語的使用可能不會像西部比較集中在一個地方，可能在臺東縣同一個村莊裡面會有人講四縣，有人講海陸，有種種的說法，不過政府為了趕快讓更多人學客語，並沒有因地制宜，所以就以多數腔調的教學為主，其實這個部分很多鄉親在擔心我的腔調會不會因為這樣而失去。針對這個部分是不是也請主委可以給臺東更多的資源，能夠列一個專案，包括經費上的補助，讓臺東在教學客語的時候能夠保存少數的腔調，主委是不是同意能夠這樣做？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，這個一定沒問題的，目前我們和教育部合作，包含教育部自己的規定，學生要選修什麼語言，我們就應該提供什麼語言，當然學校往往會說因為不容易請到海陸腔、不容易請到什麼腔的老師，可能就沒有，但只要學校有提出來，我們就一定會支持。現在問題就是學校可能會認為這樣的作業比較繁複、麻煩，它就會去鼓勵學生，比如說我是海陸腔，我家裡是說海陸腔的……"],["黃委員建賓：這部分地方如果有需要的話，主委願意來支持，是不是？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：沒有問題。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委。","最後請教主委，因為講到吃的部分，其實在臺灣無論是閩、客、原、新，它都有各自的飲食文化，主委，對於客家文化，本席大概瞭解到的就是粄條跟米苔目，因為是從小在吃的。臺東當然有些知名的名店，像鹿野的「200哩客家粄條」，還有觀光客來臺東一定會吃的就是「榕樹下米苔目」，不過在這次連假裡面，客人少很多，我想可能也因為是地震的關係，遊客來的少，主委，除了這個情況之外，你有沒有覺得還有沒有其他原因會影響到遊客減少吃美食？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：臺東這個地方當然在旅遊上，主要是北部跟高雄人去，一般來說是去那邊享受自然環境，可能對美食的部分比較少去接觸，所以這次的地震也有影響，但我想旅遊的主題可能是接近大自然，然後還有運動、活動，可能比較沒有針對美食的部分，我們對美食的推動，像是我們有舉辦客家小炒的比賽，臺東也有隊伍參賽。"],["黃委員建賓：主委剛才有提到，我想要問的就是，最近因為臺北寶林茶室的食安風波，延伸到現在，其實連遠在高雄美濃都有受影響，我們高雄美濃有一家很有名的「林家粄條」，每天大概兩百斤的粄條在販賣，因為這個事情之後，整個銷售量下降，有些地方甚至更慘。主委，我想這個也是會受到食安影響，是不是？我想飲食文化如果因為食安被摧毀，這個力道絕對不會亞於不會說客語這件事情。在這邊本席要要求，為了推廣客家美食，主委可不可以在我們立法院舉辦一個客家粄條、米苔目的美食記者會，經費由客委會支持，另外我們邀集各縣市的美食業者來設攤，同時公開透明的展示製作過程，告訴所有人，我們的製作過程非常的安全，主委是不是同意？包括我們客家的……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：跟委員報告，做是做得到，但是要邀請誰來，牽涉到全臺灣有這麼多賣粄條的商家，如果有的有來、有的沒有來，可能會造成大家不平衡的問題，我們要想辦法解決，這個問題如果解決，我們舉辦沒有問題。"],["黃委員建賓：你們網站的食在客庄就有一些業者，是不是可以由客委會推薦篩選？各縣市也可以推薦嘛！我們最主要目的是要告訴國人，客家美食在製作上絕對沒有問題。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好。"],["黃委員建賓：這個部分是不是可以請主委協助？這是本席所要表達的。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，那到時候要請委員來吃板條，現場在康園前面。"],["黃委員建賓：好，我一定會到，謝謝主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：謝謝您。"],["主席：謝謝黃建賓委員的質詢。下一位請王美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","陳冠廷"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-04-08"],"gazette_id":"1132501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案(一)\n客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請\n查照案、(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元\n書面報告，請查照案、(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預\n算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案、(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預\n算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案、(六)客家委員會函，為113年度\n中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結 100萬元書面報告，請查照案；三、審查或\n處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計 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委員會主席"},{"start":37.386,"end":60.644,"text":"主委客家人在臺東縣境內大概是4.4萬人那相較於我們原住民還有閩南人的人數算是少數那就像我們不過臺東特有的這個多元族群的這個共生環境閩客園心比鄰而居是很常見的這個情況那在臺東縣我們族群之間的互動是非常良性且正面的"},{"start":62.026,"end":64.288,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":78.821,"end":102.998,"text":"主委我們行政院114年推出的客庄369幸福計畫它的內容應該是在臺山縣、六堆還有臺九縣各個客家區域的整體考量發展那其中呢我們臺九縣的整個是貫穿我們花東的縱谷北從吉安鄉然後一直南到臺東的鹿野鄉的這個幸福臺九縣計畫"},{"start":104.079,"end":105.922,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":119.68,"end":122.404,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":136.243,"end":137.663,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":160.37,"end":165.452,"text":"二、風鈴提防及強硬行業教育．二、風鈴提防及強硬行業教育．二、風鈴提防及強硬行業教育．二、風鈴提防及強硬行業教育．"},{"start":184.481,"end":185.343,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議"},{"start":196.297,"end":221.426,"text":"好 謝謝主委主委剛才提到了關於議員還有我們觀光的部分那這邊我就順便也來問一下關於這個觀光主委你在112年這個資本報告提到整合369客庄觀光旅遊產業特色資源這邊有推出這個100條的這個客庄遊程是不是 是的 是的 主委這個臺東縣客庄小旅行的景點在哪裡"},{"start":223.228,"end":231.133,"text":"三月緊急處因為現在全台灣主要是集數客家來申請目前為止當然在23年度陸隊申請比較多東部申請可能比較少因為現在集數申請當然無人申請可能現在沒有但是現在要一期期復讀"},{"start":250.832,"end":255.017,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":267.529,"end":271.572,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":286.363,"end":292.549,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":306.022,"end":309.004,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":327.296,"end":328.597,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":348.832,"end":350.193,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":364.226,"end":385.305,"text":"謝謝主委,這剛好是本席要提到的就是我們台中縣早遲上相公所有提出這個客家文藝復興計畫那中間是補助了我們剛才主委提到的這個米國學校旁邊的這個有一棟舊的建物改建成這個關山客庄傳譯中心我想這點非常值得肯定這是中央跟地方共同推動客家文化很好的一個示範"},{"start":386.266,"end":392.609,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":415.751,"end":417.434,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":426.829,"end":430.972,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":447.205,"end":448.886,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":462.028,"end":491.307,"text":"主委剛才你提到的是客家因為很多不同的腔調所以很多的不同的表示方式對不對主委台中縣非常特殊我們台中縣是一個移民的城市那客家人雖然占了18%可是多半是從桃竹鳥雲林六堆來的所以客語的使用可能不會像西部他比較集中在一個地方那可能你在同個台中縣同個村莊裡面他可能會有人講市縣有人講海陸有種種的說法那不過"},{"start":491.867,"end":496.151,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":517.808,"end":541.561,"text":"主委是否同意能夠持續報告,以下一天作答。目前人家和教育部的合作,包括教育部企業的整天,學生會去寫每個議案,人家應該提供每個議案,當然學校往往會說,不容易尋到學生圈,不容易尋到每個圈,沒有。但是學校之後有提出來,人家一天只此。問題是說,"},{"start":542.942,"end":544.624,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":562.259,"end":588.866,"text":"那我其實對客家美食其實在台灣無論是閩客、圓心他都有各自的飲食文化那所以我客家文化本席大概了解到的就是粄條跟米苔目這是從小在吃的齁那臺東剛有一些知名的名店像陸野的這個兩百里客家粄條還有我們觀光客來臺東一定會吃的就是米苔目榕樹下的米苔目那不過在這次連假裡面齁客人少很多"},{"start":589.426,"end":595.611,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":618.087,"end":620.588,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":637.233,"end":663.342,"text":"主委剛好都有提到我想要問的就是說最近因為台北寶雲市這個寶雲市這個食安的風波啦延伸到現在齁那其實連遠在高雄美濃的這個都有受影響我們高雄美濃我現在很有名叫林家板條每天大概換大概200斤的板條才5萬因為這個事情之後整個銷售量下降有些地方甚至更慘齁那"},{"start":665.803,"end":667.466,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":675.684,"end":704.904,"text":"主委是不是可以在我們的為了推廣客家美食可不可以在我們立法院舉辦一個客家版條米苔目的美食記者會然後經費由客委會來支持另外我們邀集各縣市的這些美食業者來社攤同時公開透明的展示我們的製作過程告訴所有的人說我們的製作過程非常的安全主委是不是同意"},{"start":705.604,"end":707.086,"text":"包括我們的客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":720.781,"end":743.035,"text":"主委你們在網站就有實在客庄的就有一些業者這可以由我們客戶來推薦篩選各家市也可以推薦嘛我們最主要的問題是要告訴大家國人說客家美食在製作上絕對沒有問題那這個部分是不是可以請我們主委來協助那這是本席想要表達的"},{"start":746.564,"end":747.325,"text":"王美惠委員"}]}},{"id":"150895","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150895","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981ea09959badf573935942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6ed9e289072f1584b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:48:06 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09:58:59","影片長度":"00:10:53","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":653,"end_time":"2024-04-08T09:58:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:48:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":295,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時48分）謝謝主席。主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，我請問你，4月3號發生花蓮大地震之後，到目前為止，勞動部有沒有派人前往花蓮地區瞭解勞工實際受災的情況？"],["許部長銘春：我們的發展署北分署這邊……當地我們有就服中心的人直接跟他們瞭解、聯繫，都有。"],["王委員育敏：那我就教你，受到4月3號地震衝擊的勞工大概會有多少人？你們掌握的情況。"],["許部長銘春：人數的部分可能還在調查當中，因為這兩天主要是忙著先救災，還有……"],["王委員育敏：所以沒有掌握？那我要問你的就是……"],["許部長銘春：受傷、死亡的部分，你要不要說明一下？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，這次地震有3個死亡，一個是大貨車司機被落石砸死，另外一個是準備去做邊坡修復的工作人員在交通事故中死亡，另外一個是礦場的勞工被砸死，那礦場的部分是經濟部在負責，死亡的部分我們有掌握住了。受傷的部分有些是屬於通勤事故，到時候勞保局會針對他通勤事故的事故，也會給予一定的補償。"],["王委員育敏：所以你們還沒有掌握？"],["鄒署長子廉：有，死亡都會掌握住了，那通勤的部分……"],["王委員育敏：多少人？"],["鄒署長子廉：死亡是3個。"],["王委員育敏：不是，我是說受傷。"],["鄒署長子廉：後續公司也會做……"],["王委員育敏：受傷還不清楚？"],["鄒署長子廉：在蒐集。"],["王委員育敏：那可能會受到失業衝擊的勞工有多少？也不清楚，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：我們現在就是跟地方政府在盤點，需要協助的部分……"],["王委員育敏：所以還沒有掌握到嘛！好，本席今天……"],["許部長銘春：有聯繫啦！但是他們還沒有具體回報人數。"],["王委員育敏：本席今天的要求就是，0403這個大地震對花蓮的衝擊非常大，這樣的衝擊不是短期的衝擊，未來它的整個觀光產業的衝擊也非常大，因為你可以看到太魯閣國家公園已經關園了，然後很多重要的風景點幾乎是山崩地裂，這個受創太嚴重，短時間內是沒有辦法回復的，所以本席今天要要求勞動部的就是，雖然4月5號你在第一時間有提出來，你有2,000個臨時工要協助重建，但本席認為這個是不夠的，因為包括你提到從優、從速、從簡這三個原則，我覺得這個真的太少，第一個，從速的部分，到目前為止，還沒有勞工真的是透過臨時工開始取得這樣的一個資源，其實從速根本還沒有做到。所以我覺得這整個0403，勞動部應該要成立一個專案，不是用你原來這一些臨時工的方案，而是你特別成立一個專案，而這個專案就是你要主動去掌握目前災區受創的員工，包括受傷的、現在可能面臨失業的、家裡其實受到很大衝擊的，這些總共的人數有多少，你盤點出這樣的人數，搭配你現行2,000個臨時工，你要看這個到底夠不夠，我覺得有可能是不夠的。"],["許部長銘春：委員，這沒有關係，人數的部分，我們都可以視彈性再來調整，這沒有問題。"],["王委員育敏：對，另外就是你給的方法，因為大家現在都忙著重建，家裡也受創，可能公司也受到影響，甚至他自己也受傷，他怎麼樣再去從事臨時工？所以針對這樣一個很大的天災，我認為是要有一個特別的專案來協助。"],["許部長銘春：我們的傷病給付，就是他從受傷當天都可以來給付……"],["王委員育敏：所以現在部長是不是可以成立0403針對花蓮地區受災的勞工有一個特別的專案？另外，我覺得這些勞工有的可能還需要貸款，是勞工貸款，你過去只有在過年的時候會有勞工貸款，但是這一次我覺得災區受創太嚴重了，他可能根本沒有辦法，他可能需要有些貸款，你看到有一些早餐店根本就倒掉了，或是有一些店家根本就不能做生意了，這個部分可能還需要有特別的貸款，不是這每個月才兩萬多塊的補貼而已。所以我認為這整個措施，部長是不是回去可以交代同仁好好的盤點一下，你們主動性要拿出來，不是被動的等著花蓮縣政府，主動積極的介入、瞭解有什麼樣的需求，這個光靠地方政府，我覺得是做不起來的，一定要勞動部的支援，這個可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好。我們這幾天一直都有主動聯繫，不過也體諒他們那邊，震災是先救災比較重要，所以不敢太過叨擾他們，不過我想這個部分，我們是一定會持續主動聯絡，我們也會掌握相關的情形，然後來看提供怎麼樣的協助，這個一定會來做。"],["王委員育敏：好，我覺得這需要中央的力量積極的介入跟幫忙，好不好？用勞動部的資源積極來協助，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝。"],["王委員育敏：接下來我要問的是今天主題提到有關男性請育嬰假的部分，的確我們現在看到男性請育嬰假的比例雖然有提高，但是提高的速度還是緩慢的，跟女性比起來，他們現在請領的還是偏低，只有兩成五，大概是四分之一。針對這個部分，今天勞動部的相關報告裡面，我沒有看到一個比較具體的改善措施，但是我就要請部長來看一下日本跟瑞典是怎麼做的，在日本的部分，現在開始就是強制性出來了，他要強制企業給男性的職員放育嬰假，雇員超過1,000人以上的企業，他要求企業要將男性請育嬰假的資料報出來，而且沒有達標的企業會被公開，另外就是研擬要求百人以上的企業要去制定，公司自己去制定要怎麼提高整個男性育嬰假的措施。而在瑞典，每位新生兒的父母親都可以共同擁有育嬰假，有一個Daddy Quota，就是父親的天數要占到一定的比例。我給部長看的就是目前我們臺灣其實沒有任何強制性的措施，我們也沒有要求、我們也沒有設定目標。在日本，他們希望2025年男性請育嬰假的比例可以達到50%，但是我們臺灣沒有目標。就這個部分，請問部長，我們臺灣沒有具體的措施，也沒有目標，我們要如何提升？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們這一次彈性育嬰留停的試辦，其實就是希望找出臺灣可以做的一個方法，包括委員您給我們日本的這些規範，還有他們即將要強制放育嬰假，我覺得都可以參考，所以我剛剛也指示業務單位，有關這個部分，我們要來蒐集，好的經驗，我們都應該來參考。"],["王委員育敏：我覺得解決少子化的問題，最關鍵的就是我們現在應該給年輕爸媽更多友善跟彈性的措施，所以勞動部的角色坦白講非常重要，因為你轄下這麼多的企業跟勞工，如果這一塊可以改善，就改善了超過一半以上，1,000萬的勞工都在你這邊，所以這個部分，我拜託勞動部一定要積極一點。日本都可以往這個方向做，臺灣當然也可以。所以過去我們大概都是比較柔性的，就是呼籲，包括我們的性別工作平等法，大概都是走比較柔性的，沒有強制希望企業可以主動做什麼，但是政策跟法令是可以引導的。日本的作法，我覺得很值得臺灣來做參考，如果我們要提高男性的參與率，提高讓男職員放育嬰假的比例，我們應該要讓企業各雇主擔負起相對的責任，而且政策也應該要有一些要求，就是讓企業的力量可以出來，我希望這個可以納進來。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["王委員育敏：最後我要提到最近這個試辦方案，我覺得很重要，但是民間團體希望不是只開放到日，可以開放到小時，既然要彈性，是不是就給家長最大的彈性？這一塊勞動部現在可以做嗎？在你們的試辦方案有開放到小時了嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，那個試辦方案，我是覺得都可以滾動檢討，甚至配合這樣的方案……"],["王委員育敏：你們現在沒有到小時嘛？"],["許部長銘春：沒關係，這個部分我早上也跟前面的委員講過，我的試辦原則現在還在蒐集各界的意見，等整個意見更完整，我們再來試辦都沒有關係，包括像委員您建議的，是不是把它放寬彈性到小時，或者年齡往上到8歲，我覺得在這次試辦原則裡面都可以，只是如果要津貼，因為我們現在的法律規定是要3歲以下，而且我們有一些規定，所以到小時可能會有困難。"],["王委員育敏：我知道……"],["許部長銘春：這個部分我們再來……"],["王委員育敏：另外一個要搭配的不是育嬰假，而是所謂的有薪家庭照顧假，你知道嗎？有薪家庭照顧假，各界已經呼籲很久了，公務人員都已經可以開始，不只有有薪家庭照顧假，還有6歲以下叫幼兒照顧假，但是在勞工這一塊就是完全沒有，就是無薪的家庭照顧假，這一塊我認為應該要突破了，而且它突破的第一步應該就是先針對有子女的家庭，如果整體的經費不夠，那麼6歲以下先做啊！或者是再拉到12歲，但是這一塊，我覺得我們都沒有往前再進一步，既然現在育嬰假我們願意再開放彈性，這個是3歲以下，但是小孩子會生病不是只有3歲以下，就是3歲以上到小學階段，他常常會因為感染疾病或什麼，他需要請假，既然公務人員可以有有薪的家庭照顧假，你再開放給勞工有薪的家庭照顧假，我覺得這個應該各界要開始來研議了，我們現在少子化真的到一個很誇張的地步了，去年十三萬多的新生兒，這一塊如果我們政府的政策再不跟上、再不做一些突破，我覺得我們少子化的現象恐怕還要持續探底，我覺得這部分勞動部責無旁貸，是不是可以拜託勞動部回去同時好好研議，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員，我們會來做一個討論跟研議。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席（林委員月琴代）：謝謝王委員。","接下來麻煩我們的黃秀芳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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quota"},{"start":385.799,"end":413.213,"text":"父親的天數要佔到一定的比例那我給部長看的就是我們目前臺灣我們其實沒有任何強制性的措施我們也沒有要求我們也沒有設定目標在日本他們希望2025年可以達到男性請育嬰假比例達到50%但是我們臺灣沒有目標那在這個部分請問部長我們臺灣沒有具體的措施也沒有目標我們要如何提升"},{"start":413.613,"end":430.159,"text":"報告委員其實我們這一次就是那個彈性育嬰留停的一個示範其實就是要希望找出一個臺灣可以做的一個方法那報告委員您給我們這個日本的這些規範還有他們即將要強制我覺得都可以參考"},{"start":430.879,"end":433.482,"text":"我剛剛其實也只是業務單位 這個部分我們要來收集好的經驗我們都應該來參考我覺得解決少子化的問題最關鍵就是我們現在應該給我們的年輕爸媽更多友善跟彈性的措施"},{"start":446.375,"end":464.554,"text":"所以勞動部的角色坦白講非常重要因為你狹下這麼多的企業跟勞工如果這一塊可以改善就改善了超過一半以上一千萬的勞工都在你這邊所以我覺得這個部分我拜託勞動部一定要積極一點日本都可以往這個方向做"},{"start":465.014,"end":480.938,"text":"台灣當然也可以所以過去我們大概都是比較柔性的就是說呼籲包括我們的性別工作平等法我們大概都是走比較柔性的沒有去強制希望企業可以主動做什麼但是政策跟法律是可以引導的日本的做法我覺得很值得台灣來做參考"},{"start":482.999,"end":508.099,"text":"就是如果我們要提高這個男性的參與率的話然後讓男職員放育嬰假提高他的比例我們應該要讓企業各僱主其實擔負起相對的責任而且政策你也應該要有一些要求就是讓企業的力量可以出來這個我希望這個可以納進來那另外最後這邊我要提到的就是最近的這個試辦方案我覺得很重要"},{"start":508.519,"end":528.499,"text":"但是民間團體希望不是只開放到日可以開放到小時既然要彈性是不是就給家長最大的彈性那這一塊勞動部現在可以做嗎在你們的試辦方案有開放到小時了嗎報告委員那個試辦方案我是覺得都可以滾動檢討甚至配合這樣的方案你們現在沒有到小時嗎"},{"start":528.919,"end":553.752,"text":"沒關係 報告委其實這個部分我早上也跟前面的委員講說我的試辦原則我現在還要搜集各界的意見我等整個意見更完整我們再來試辦都沒有關係包括說像委員您建議的說是不是把他放關檯一直到小時或者說那個年齡上到8歲我覺得在這試辦原則裡面都可以只是說如果要津貼因為我們現在的法令規定是要"},{"start":555.434,"end":558.236,"text":"但是在勞工這一塊就是完全沒有就是無薪的家庭照顧假"},{"start":583.755,"end":612.673,"text":"那這一塊我認為應該要突破了而且它突破的第一步應該就是先針對有子女的這個家庭你如果說整體的經費不夠那6歲以下先做啊或者是再拉到12歲啊但是這一塊我覺得我們都沒有往前再進一步既然我們現在這個育嬰假我們願意再開放彈性這個是3歲以下但是小孩子會生病不是只有3歲以下就是3歲以上到小學階段他常常會因為感染疾病什麼他要請假"},{"start":613.573,"end":629.978,"text":"那這個如果可以既然公務人員可以有有薪的家庭照顧假你再開放給勞工這個有薪的家庭照顧假我覺得這個應該各界要開始來研議了我們現在少子化真的到一個很誇張的地步了去年13萬多的新生兒"},{"start":630.638,"end":630.698,"text":"王育敏"}]}},{"id":"150894","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150894","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e938165848398194f812d6accade995942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6523becba90833d095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:36:04 - 09:48:00","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":716,"end_time":"2024-04-08T09:48:00+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:36:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":263,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時36分）主席好，麻煩部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長，看這一張應該可以知道，根據2022年公布的14個國家的勞參率，臺灣女性的勞參率事實上只高於義大利，我們只有51.6%，低於其他國家，這也意味著本來如果有更多女性進來，事實上現在很多缺工的狀態，或許可以期待女性來協助經濟發展，可是從女性就業率看起來事實上是拉警報的，因為從2023年的統計來看，25歲到29歲達到89.9%，高於美、日、韓，可是到30歲之後就往下降了，成了一個V字型，因為我們的女性很多就是為了帶孩子，或是照顧家裡的長輩。想問部長，因為照顧離職的問題一直都很嚴重，尤其對於女性在家庭的一個觀念裡面，很多時候長期是被要求要負擔照顧起老的、小的，部長，我知道你們有統計，可是我想問更細緻的，就是其中照顧失能者、老人、嬰兒跟兒童的人數各有多少？因為照顧家裡而離開職場的有多少？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，根據主計總處的資料，因為照顧65歲以上的長輩而離職的，去年5月公布的是9,000人。"],["林委員月琴：所以部長是不是可以，因為我個人很喜歡看數據，如果充分掌握這數據，背後的問題才有辦法被解決，你們今天提出來的，我想問的是，你剛剛報告的在現行育嬰留停的制度下執行是什麼意思？因為看你的報告是說不少於5日，那這個不少於5日，是單日也可以，想問的是父母可以同時申請嗎？"],["許部長銘春：可以。"],["林委員月琴：那怎麼執行？何時執行？3月你們也有開過會，到底什麼時候要執行？是520之前還是520之後？還有預計如何讓企業來執行？不是發一紙公文或一個宣傳，雖然你的報告裡面也有提到一定會有，就是鼓勵，可是這鼓勵機制，部長應該也知道，你們企托鼓勵鼓勵之後，誰辦了？政府部門辦了，醫療院所辦了，可是真正我們認為的那些企業事實上是沒在辦理的，所以想問的是，你怎麼去鼓勵這些企業？你這些報告說的我都認為不會有效果。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，沒關係，這個部分其實我們當初試辦的原則，就是希望讓他們自願性的來參與，當然我們這樣的原則出來，也有很多委員有很多的指教，我也認為大家講的也都有道理，我們現在先透過試辦原則瞭解職場上……"],["林委員月琴：可不可以找一些比較大的企業體？我覺得也兼顧社會責任，因為今天公司可以運作的話，運作十年、二十年，要後邊有人能夠來工作，所以有沒有辦法去鼓勵一些比較大型的企業來配合？否則你的試驗方案又停留在公部門，公部門比較可以配合，但沒有辦法類推到商業團體，所以請部長在招募的時候可能要特別注意這一點。"],["許部長銘春：對，跟委員報告，我們除了公部門以外，私部門的大型企業也有表達參與的意願，不過，我跟委員報告，原來我們預計是5月1號要上路，不過因為好多委員對這個部分都認為我們應該更周延，所以我也跟同仁說，持續蒐集更完整的意見，調整以後再上路，不急著上路，希望上路以後試辦真的能夠有一些效果出來。"],["林委員月琴：部長，我想問的還有一個是如果這個要上路，你所有的準備都準備好了沒？因為本席認為在技術上，請假方法變革的挑戰會落在雇主的身上，對政府來講，這些系統是不是健全？為什麼？因為包含請假的日數、津貼申請的作業，這些都要資訊系統完成，不知道現在建置的狀況如何？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，如果是未來津貼的給付，其實我們保險司已經有做一些初步的規劃，來因應這一次的試辦原則，這個都有。不過就是說大企業這邊，當然我們也會邀請他們再來做一些說明會，因為現在有登記要來參與試辦的，我們也會先召集他們來做一些……"],["林委員月琴：我希望系統可以處理好，因為過往我們在民間，用政府的系統都很難用，所以不要到時候要登載這些造成很多困擾，因為你現在要試辦單日也可以的話，那個複雜度會非常非常高，可能就要去做考慮。","再來，如果今天要去顧到嬰兒的時候，也要問的是，那幼兒跟老人呢？為什麼？因為民間團體也一直在倡議說可不可以給親職假，我想剛剛前面幾位委員也有問到親職假，就是你是不是可以藉此次的試辦計畫，用日或者甚至用時來計，對於這項變革是不是相對會比較好一點？因為有時候可能只要2個小時去顧孩子，家長不需要請到一整天，可是它的彈性工時變化性是更高的，勞動部不要去忽略掉民間一直存在親職假的呼籲，所以4月2號民間團體也開了這樣的一個記者會，希望你用日或者時。所以想問一下，這個試辦計畫未來是不是可以考慮，不是只有3歲，事實上3歲前幾乎在保母家或是托嬰中心，還可以彈性度比較高一點，可是到幼兒園的時候，腸病毒這個問題就常常需要家長請個5天，那他們就會覺得勞動條件對他們來講比較不這麼好，所以有沒有考慮延伸到8歲，然後把我們的家庭照顧假也合併進來作為一個親職假？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實優於法令的在試辦裡面都可以先做，不過如果連結到要給津貼，因為我們現在的法令規定是3歲以下……"],["林委員月琴：所以可不可以去考量一下？"],["許部長銘春：就是牽涉到修法啦！但我的意思是說，試辦原則的部分，我是覺得可以放寬就放寬。"],["林委員月琴：因為民間團體會提出來，表示他們一直以來就是會收到很多家長的需求，才會提出這樣的訴求，所以是不是可以考慮一下用這樣的方式，在這次試辦的時候就把它考量進去？就是到8歲，因為的確幼稚園階段……我自己本身以前在帶孩子的時候，幼稚園階段事實上是我們請假最多的，一下碰到腸病毒，大概就是要這樣子的時間點，所以請部長去做考量。"],["許部長銘春：沒關係，委員，針對這個試辦原則，我們正在蒐集意見，讓它更完整啦！"],["林委員月琴：好。"],["許部長銘春：所以包括委員您這個意見，我也會請業務單位來參考。"],["林委員月琴：再來，長照也會是一個問題，我說不是只有顧到嬰兒，可能女性會離開勞動市場，除了小孩以外，還有一個就是老人。日本他們有一個93天的長期照顧安排假，也就是一個被照顧者一年有93天的時間，可以被作為長期照顧的安排，那子女就可以去請這個假，分3次請，然後用社會保險支出67%的薪水。過去部長也曾經回答過，一年一個人93天，一年大概就要363億的預算，總歸就是錢嘛！可是錢如果可以讓我們的女性進入到勞動市場的話，讓我們的經濟發展可以更好的話，這363億不是一個難處，所以我不知道，明明當時已經有提出來，我不知道有沒有去考慮？那民間團體在108年的時候也再提出30天的有薪照顧假跟150天彈性請假的長照安排，日本是93天，那臺灣的民間團體是提出這樣子的方案，所以請問一下，因為已經討論了好多年，在108年提出來的時候，當時勞動部的回答是說要邀請相關的團體、學者來開會討論，然後也表示每年大概有18.7萬人因照顧而減少工時、請假跟轉換工作，累積有13.3萬人因照顧而離職，所以這13.3萬人如果回到勞動市場的話，我們現在不會有這麼多缺工的問題，所以請問部長，現在你研議安排的狀況為何？有沒有已經有更具體的能讓我們知道？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們其實有開過會，我先講雇主端的部分，應該有65%以上是反對，為什麼？他們認為在整個人力的調配上會產生困難。那在受僱者方面，主要的問題在於說，如果沒有辦法有任何薪資的補助或津貼，大概有60%的人不會申請。所以這個部分會變成就是說，到底人力要怎麼來協助，還有財源要怎麼來支持，這是重點。第二個就是說，其實長輩的照顧問題，更周延的可能就是我們長照的部分要怎麼樣通盤的去規劃，這樣兩個搭起來才能夠讓照顧不離職真正落實。"],["林委員月琴：部長，少子化跟高齡老化事實上是綁在一起的，如果不去解決這個，一個女性30歲就回到家庭裡面，他即便有大學或者是碩士學歷的話，我覺得那也辜負了我們國家去栽培人才，結果他不能夠回到職場去展現自我，我認為這個應該要去考慮。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["林委員月琴：到底要不要到30天，甚至到150天，你要去考慮，你不能只有顧到嬰兒，否則的話你催不了生，然後老的又沒辦法照顧，一個女性只要進入到家裡面一兩年，他要再回到職場的話，事實上困難度會增高，所以這個部分是不是可以請部長兩週後提出你們相關的對應措施是什麼給我們的辦公室？謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，一個月好不好？"],["林委員月琴：好。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員發言。","接下來請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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然後麻煩我們的部長請許部長委員好部長那看這張應該可以知道就是我們現在從2022年的公布14個國家的勞參率裏邊那女性勞參率臺灣事實上只高過於義大利"},{"start":38.8,"end":51.794,"text":"我們只有51.6%低於其他的國家那也意味著我們女性本來事實上如果更多女性進來的話事實上我們現在很多在缺工的狀態要期待女性是不是"},{"start":52.261,"end":80.333,"text":"﹗"},{"start":80.859,"end":108.982,"text":"想問部長因為照顧離職的問題一直都很嚴重尤其對於女性在家庭的一個觀念裡邊很多時候長期是被要求要負擔照顧起老的小的那所以部長對於目前我知道你們有這樣的統計可是想問更細緻的就是說其中照顧失能者老人嬰兒跟兒童的人數有各自有多少就是說因為家裡的照顧而去離開職場的"},{"start":110.979,"end":119.222,"text":"報告委員根據主席總書的資料照顧65歲以上的長輩而離職的這是去年5月公布的9000人"},{"start":132.088,"end":158.835,"text":"所以部長是不是可以因為所有的因為我說我個人很喜歡看數據看數據之後你背後的問題要怎麼去解決如果充分掌握這數據就知道說你今天要提出來的所有的對應勞工的問題的話才有辦法能夠被解決那現在今天提出來的就想問的是現行的你剛剛報告的就育嬰留"},{"start":159.375,"end":161.336,"text":"請問父母同時可以申請嗎?可以。"},{"start":174.778,"end":198.154,"text":"那怎麼執行?何時執行?為什麼?因為現在時間3月你們也有開過會那到底什麼時候是要執行?是520之前還是520之後還預計如何讓企業來執行為什麼?不是把一個公文紙或是發一個宣傳企業雖然你的報告裡面也有提到說一定會有就是鼓勵可是這個鼓勵機制"},{"start":199.535,"end":226.247,"text":"部長應該也知道你們企圖鼓勵鼓勵誰辦了政府部門辦了醫療院所辦了可是呢真正我們認為的商業那些企業事實上是沒在辦理的所以想問的是你怎麼去鼓勵這些企業可能你這些報告的都認為不會有效果報告委沒關係這個部分其實我們當初這個這個事辦的原則當初是就是就是說希望採志願的志願性的讓他們來參與"},{"start":228.288,"end":248.097,"text":"所以但是當然我們這樣的原則出來也很多委員有很多的指教所以我也認為說其實大家講的也都有道理我們現在透過示範原則來瞭解職場﹖可不可以找一些比較大企業的我覺得也兼顧社會責任因為今天他的公司可以運作的話是運作10年20年"},{"start":249.378,"end":250.059,"text":"請部長這邊是不是在..."},{"start":265.979,"end":280.738,"text":"所謂招募的時候可能要特別去注意到這一點跟委員報告我們除了公部門以外私部門的大型企業也有表達參與的意願不過我跟委員報告就是說原來我們預計是5月1號要上路不過因為委員好多委員對這個"},{"start":281.779,"end":284.96,"text":"市長,我想問的還有一個是,如果這個要上路,你所有的準備準備好了沒?因為本席認為在技術上請假方法變革挑戰會"},{"start":305.709,"end":324.199,"text":"在顧主的身上。若對政府來講這些系統是不是健全?因為為什麼?因為包括請假的日數、津貼申請的作業這些都要資訊系統完成。不知道這現在的狀況建制的如何?報告委員 這個如果是那個未來津貼的給付之類其實我們保險是已經在"},{"start":324.899,"end":352.322,"text":"有做一些初步的一些規劃了這個都有因應這一次的事辦原則不過就是說大企業這邊當然我們也在會邀請他們再來做一些說明會因為現在有登記要來參與事辦的我們也會先召集他們來做一些我希望系統可以處理好因為過往我們在民間在用政府的系統都很難用所以不要到時候要登載這些造成多困擾院縣畢竟單日也可以的話"},{"start":352.95,"end":366.764,"text":"要試辦單日也可以的話那個複雜度會非常非常的高可能就要去做考慮那再來你如果說今天要去顧到嬰兒的時候也要問的是那幼兒跟老人呢因為為什麼因為民間團體也一直在倡議說可不可以有"},{"start":371.142,"end":384.683,"text":"給親職假,我想剛剛前面金威委員也問到那個親職假,就是你是不是可以藉此次的試辦計畫用日或者甚至用時來計,那有沒有對這項"},{"start":385.845,"end":387.145,"text":"這個事辦計畫未來是不是可以考慮"},{"start":415.014,"end":441.063,"text":"不是只有3歲事實上3歲前幾乎在保母家還可以彈性度比較高一點然後或是托嬰中心可到幼兒園的時候長病毒這個問題就常常花掉家長可能要請個5天那常常都會是他們一個在勞動條件裡邊他們會覺得對他們來講比較不這麼好所以有沒有考慮延伸到8歲然後把我們的家庭照顧假也合併進來來作為一個親子假"},{"start":443.864,"end":472.471,"text":"這個報告委員其實優於法令的這個都可以先在事辦裡面都可以先做不過如果連結到要給津貼因為我們現在法令規定是三歲以下所以可不可以去考量一下就是要牽涉到修法但是我的意思是說事辦原則的部分我是覺得可以放寬因為民間團體會提出來表示他們一直以來就是會受到很多家長的需求才會提出這樣的一個訴求在"},{"start":472.858,"end":490.572,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":491.489,"end":495.712,"text":"請部長這邊去做考量再來就是長照也會是一個問題我說不是只有顧到嬰兒可能"},{"start":508.759,"end":522.508,"text":"女性離開勞動市場她除了事實上是小孩以外還有一個就是老人那日本他們有一個93天的長期照顧安排假也就是一個被照顧者一年有93天的時間可以被"},{"start":523.421,"end":542.89,"text":"做為長期照顧的安排那子女就可以去請這個假那分三次請然後用社會保險支出67%的薪水那過去部長這邊也曾經回答過反正一年一個人93天一年大概就要363億的預算終歸就是錢嘛可是錢如果可以讓我們的女性來進入到勞動市場的話來讓我們的經濟發展可以更好的話這363億不是一個難處所以我不知道"},{"start":552.714,"end":567.284,"text":"就當時已經有提出來我不知道這有沒有有已經去考慮那民間團體也108年的時候也在提出來就30天的有心照顧假跟150天的彈性請假的一個長照安排日本是93天那臺灣民間團體是提出這樣子的一個"},{"start":570.891,"end":592.447,"text":"所以請問一下這個因為已經在也討論好多年因為108年提出來當時勞動部的回答是說要邀請相關的團體學者來開會討論然後也表示每年大概有18.7萬人應照顧然後減少工時請假跟轉換工作所以有累積到13.3萬人應"},{"start":594.898,"end":595.118,"text":"我們其實有開過會了齁"},{"start":612.426,"end":628.396,"text":"那個我先講就在雇主端的部分大概應該有65%以上是反對為什麼他們認為說在整個人力的調配上他們會產生困難那在受雇者方面他主要的問題在於說如果"},{"start":629.036,"end":629.196,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":644.885,"end":646.187,"text":"少子化跟高齡老化是綁在一起的"},{"start":662.824,"end":663.024,"text":"林月琴"},{"start":679.879,"end":704.406,"text":"認為這個應該要去考慮啦到底要不要到30天甚至到150天可是要去考慮你不能只有顧到嬰兒否則的話你吹不了聲然後呢老的又沒辦法然後一個女性他進入到他只要進入到家裡一兩年大家要回到職場事實上困難度會增高所以這個部分是不是可以請部長這邊兩週後提出一些相關的"},{"start":705.858,"end":708.82,"text":"您的對應措施是什麼提供給我們辦公室謝謝"}]}},{"id":"150893","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150893","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839812900ac62d03977ea5942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a640b168d8abc25f0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:23:16 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09:36:01","影片長度":"00:12:45","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":765,"end_time":"2024-04-08T09:36:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:23:16+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":214,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時23分）謝謝。各位同事、各位官員早安，主席早安。我請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：陳委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長早。我們來看一下，上週三發生地震，但勞動部反應非常快，馬上發了一個新聞稿，提到假使是因為交通問題，不可以歸咎為員工的事情而遲到，雇主不應視為遲到或曠職，但是工資是否照給要與雇主自己協商。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，你覺得一百個雇主中，有幾個會主動跟員工協商說好，我們是有薪的假期？"],["許部長銘春：因為這個天災是不可抗力，雙方都不可歸責，所以法令才會這樣規定，但是一般雇主也會體恤勞工的話，應該都會給。過去像颱風也是一樣，很多雇主一樣，颱風導致勞工沒有辦法上班，雇主也是一樣自行協商，還是會有很多雇主給予在天災的時間沒有辦法上班的勞工……"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我先幫您做一個表格，上禮拜三我們在這邊開會，有許許多多專家學者因為是從南部過來，因此延誤了4個小時以上；我也有收到陳情，他是被列為半天的事假，所以一個勞工半天的事假就消耗掉了。剛才部長提到您可以體諒雇主大部分都會體恤員工而給予薪水，但實際上的話，如果您沒有具體規範……，因為天災的因素有直接規定，可是上週有許許多多交通問題其實就是天災造成的，這一點也希望部長未來可以考量進去，好嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好，這個我們來討論。"],["陳委員菁徽：再來也要鼓勵部長，我們很快就啟動了天災臨時工的措施，這個非常好，因為我們可以提高當地的經濟還有就業率，讓當地失業的受災者有工作。但是我們來看一下內容，左邊顯示您講到提供每個小時183元，每個月最高補助2萬7,000塊，大約是這樣子。現在整體通膨、物價飆漲，您覺得這樣的時薪是足夠的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個臨工措施是既有的政策……"],["陳委員菁徽：這是規定？"],["許部長銘春：一般都是這樣子。"],["陳委員菁徽：對。"],["許部長銘春：其實這個程序都很快，幾乎當天申請當天就核定了，這個應該沒有什麼問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，部長，現在受災的失業者還有社會型專案計畫，您知道現在已經有幾個人申請嗎？我早上還特別查。"],["許部長銘春：我請署長說明。"],["蔡署長孟良：根據我們今天早上最新的統計，花蓮瑞穗現在已經提出15位臨工，還有幾個花蓮地區的鄉鎮目前都還在盤點。"],["陳委員菁徽：寫出計畫的我早上問是0，還沒啊！只有提出申請要打臨工的有15人。"],["蔡署長孟良：委員，這個臨工措施過去已經實施非常多次，現在地方政府都很簡便，那個計畫不是要寫很繁雜的，其實大概就一個頁面，記載需要多少、人數，大概就是基本資料而已。"],["許部長銘春：那都是一些是固定的範本，填一填就可以。"],["陳委員菁徽：你們馬上啟動真的很好，但實際的狀況是，我去詢問我在花蓮的親友，他們有些人的房屋已經倒了，很多房子不能再進去了，你要他申請計畫，他也要找地方下載這些表格，或者是去鄉鎮公所找這些表格。"],["許部長銘春：那個鄉鎮公所提，不是他。"],["陳委員菁徽：接下來他們會進入經濟的寒冬，因為快要暑假，但是許多人已經被取消訂房。本來很多家長要帶著小朋友去玩，暑假是花蓮的旺季，但是現在他們因為這樣的天災，可能半年都還沒有辦法復甦。所以我在這邊提供部長一個建議，不管是補助的金額或者是申請的程序……，您看我框起來的這些表都是一週內要完成、兩週內完成、一週內完成，這些時間加一加也要三個禮拜。","再來您看受災的失業者要提供相關證明文件，其實相對是繁瑣的。如果您可以把這個流程還有受災的失業者需要檢附的文件儘量簡化，我們才真的幫得到花蓮人，因為花蓮現在需要的是麵包，但看到你們端出的是麵包屑，有一點緩不濟急。"],["許部長銘春：我們這個臨工措施一定是從優、從速、從簡，其實需要的人只要向勞動部申請，立刻登記我們就核了，只是鄉鎮公所要提計畫，說明到底需要哪些工作，要提供給我們，那個也都是固定的，有一些範例，我們都會協助他們儘快落實臨工措施，讓需要的人趕快來工作。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝部長。","下一個我們來看一下，今天我們既然要討論育嬰假……，我自己的小孩上網看到行政院有一個兒童版的網站，許部長在上面被介紹的非常可愛，你說小朋友可以叫你「阿春部長」，你也是全國一千萬名勞工朋友的靠山，但是就像剛才陳昭姿委員提到的，臺灣勞工的比例非常高，雙薪家庭的比例也很高，許許多多的小朋友不只要部長當他們爸媽的靠山，也很希望有爸媽的陪伴，因此大概在3到4週前，部長有跟記者朋友們說，您在滾動式的調整，考量是不是勞工朋友也可以增加有薪的幼兒照顧假。請問現在滾動式的調整，您思考得如何了？"],["許部長銘春：這是公務員。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，這是公務員的……"],["許部長銘春：行政院有在開會，還沒有……"],["陳委員菁徽：但是當時媒體朋友有向您詢問，是不是勞工也可以開始考慮做這樣的……"],["許部長銘春：我們現在看行政院，因為還有再開一次會，我印象中有再開過會，如果這個方向是確定的，我們當然也認為勞工部分會檢討、跟進。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我有一個比較具體的提議，根據性別平等工作法規定，7天應該要以家庭照顧假計算，可能你們是因為現行法規或者是預算的考量，如果我們要求勞動部研擬修改勞工的請假辦法，再增加7天事假的quota，但是給予不給薪的幼兒照顧假，您覺得這方面是可行的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我覺得這個部分都可以討論，我們可以邀請勞資雙方的團體，大家來開會凝聚共識，看怎麼來做，因為這牽涉到他們雙方的權益。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以，你覺得在一個月內研擬這個勞工無薪幼兒照顧假……"],["許部長銘春：一個月？我們一個月來開會，好不好？一個月內趕快來開會，因為還是要聽取大家的意見再來決定。"],["陳委員菁徽：這是本黨之前在選舉期間提出的，但我看非常多的民進黨委員也提出跟我們相同的看法，認為需要追隨國際標準，將現行的產假延長到14週，但是我也看了一下部長的回復，部長是覺得第一、因為臺灣中小型企業比較多，反而會不利女性的就業；第二、有許多計算方式我們跟其他國家不一樣。我看了你們一個150頁的報告──「育嬰留職停薪津貼政策對於育兒勞工之影響及相關輔助政策探討」，寫得非常詳細，我覺得勞動及職業安全衛生研究所做足了資料，但是我們從裡面看起來，不管是產假、育嬰留停的津貼或是有薪資整體的週數，其實我們都大幅的落後這些OECD的先進國家，甚至丹麥、法國他們還分成懷第一胎、懷第二胎及懷雙胞胎，產假的週數都有不同，因為他們知道雙胞胎一定需要更久，或是第二胎同時要照顧第一胎會更累。部長，您覺得我們是不是應該要再稍微調整成比8週再長一點呢？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個部分也有很多委員在倡議，我也有交代業務單位應該再來做一些討論，看看是不是可以適度的把產假週數放寬，讓整個育兒生養的環境更優，這個部分我想我們會朝這個方向進一步來做研議。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，當然今天也有一個重點，是講到男性育嬰假，有許許多多的民意調查去調查為什麼臺灣的男性會不想請育嬰假，這都非常合理，比如他們因為薪水、因為主管的升遷考量、因為怕被講話、他人的觀感、覺得丟臉等等，這是要給予勞動部肯定的，部長，您知道為什麼2022年男性申請育嬰假的比率創新高到達25%嗎？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為我們放寬，第一、30天短期數也可以，再來他可以個別或同時，還有就是我們多了兩成的公務預算，用於薪資補助，我想這個都是誘因。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，這個媒體也有幫您分析了，當然有一些津貼，再來疫情是一個很大的因素，因為疫情期間有非常多托育的地方沒有開放，所以他們不得不把小孩帶回家，我覺得看到這樣子非常好，因為根據你那個150頁的報告，丹麥已經非常努力了，男性的育兒假申請也頂多到30%，然後我們居然可以在2022年衝到25%，可是我希望不要2023、2024年又變回原來的百分之十幾，因為已經沒有疫情的加持了。今天有看到各位的彙報，各位的彙報有提到銓敘部要鼓勵有申請育嬰留停的男性公務員出來做一些經驗分享，當然這個立意很好，但實際帶動的效果我覺得有限。這邊提供部長一個參考，你也知道日本文化看待男性比我們更為保守，所以日本會做到由上往下去找出員工超過100人的公司，大概有5萬家，去制定而且公布男性育嬰休假的比率目標，這樣才可以徹底的從上而下帶動整個企業文化。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我覺得可以來參考，這個我會請業務單位把日本的相關案例做一個……"],["陳委員菁徽：對，我覺得會比你們的那個方法好很多。"],["許部長銘春：來參考看看，我想別人好的經驗，我們都可以來參考。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員。","接下來請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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這個我們來討論齁"},{"start":136.343,"end":160.748,"text":"再來這邊也要鼓勵部長說我們很快就啟動了天災臨時工的措施這個非常好因為我們可以提高當地的經濟還有就業率讓當地失業的受災者有工作但是我們來看一下內容左邊您講到說提供每個小時183元每個月最高補助27000塊大約是這樣子"},{"start":163.909,"end":166.452,"text":"就現在整體通膨物價飆漲您覺得這樣子的時薪是足夠的嗎?"},{"start":173.157,"end":177.6,"text":"部長您知道您現在的這個申請的受災失業者還有社會型專案計畫您知道現在已經有幾個人申請嗎?"},{"start":198.847,"end":222.035,"text":"我早上還特別查我請署長說明一下跟委員報告我們今天早上最新的統計花蓮現在瑞穗已經提出15位零工那現在目前大概還有幾個花蓮地區的鄉鎮目前都還在盤點所以寫出計畫的我早上問是零嗎還沒啊寫出計畫的只有提出申請要打零工的有15人對不起"},{"start":228.322,"end":242.693,"text":"這個委員其實目前這個林宮這個過去已經實施了非常多次其實現在地方政府其實目前都是很簡便那個計畫不是要寫很繁雜的其實大概就一個頁面大概就是需要多少大概人數大概就是基本資料而已"},{"start":242.773,"end":245.894,"text":"接下來呢他們會進入一個經濟的寒冬因為快要暑假所以許多人已經被取消了訂房"},{"start":272.483,"end":294.984,"text":"因為本來很多人家長要帶著小朋友去玩暑假花蓮是一個很旺季嘛但是現在他們因為這樣子的天災可能半年都還沒有辦法復甦所以我在這邊是提供部長一個建議不管是這個補助的金額或者是這個申請的程序您看我框起來這些表都是一週內要完成兩週內完成一週內完成"},{"start":297.066,"end":322.335,"text":"這些時間加一加也要個三個禮拜再來您看受災失業者他要提供的相關證明文件其實也相對是繁瑣的所以如果您可以把這個流程還有受災失業者他需要減負的文件盡量簡化這樣子我們才真的幫得到花蓮人嘛因為花蓮人現在需要的是麵包但看到你們端出的是麵包屑有一點緩不濟急啊"},{"start":326.284,"end":350.975,"text":"我們這個零工的措施一定是從優從速從簡其實需要的人他只要向勞動部申請立刻登記就我們就合了只是說那個鄉鎮公所他們要提計畫到底需要哪些工作提供我們那個也都是固定的一些有一些範例我們也都會協助他們盡快能夠把這個零工的措施能夠落實讓需要的人趕快來工作"},{"start":352.135,"end":375.848,"text":"謝謝部長,下一個我們來看一下今天我們既然是要討論育嬰假這個是我自己的小孩他上網看到行政院的有一個兒童版的網站許部長在上面介紹的非常可愛他說小朋友可以叫我阿春部長也是全國一千萬名勞工朋友的靠山但是呢就像剛才陳昭之委員有提到的"},{"start":376.989,"end":393.031,"text":"台灣勞工的比例非常的高雙薪家庭的比例也很高其實許許多多的小朋友不只是要部長當他們爸媽的靠山也很希望有爸媽的陪伴對因此大概在3到4週前呢"},{"start":393.251,"end":395.913,"text":"請問現在滾動式的調整您思考的如何了?報告委員我們那個是"},{"start":413.971,"end":440.042,"text":"不是 這個是公務員的這是公務員這是公務員的但是當時媒體朋友有沒有向您詢問說是不是勞工也可以開始考慮做這樣子的我們現在也就是看行政院這邊因為還有再開一次會我印象中有再開過會那我們當然如果說這個方向是確定我們當然也認為勞工部分我們會來檢討跟進這樣子對"},{"start":443.983,"end":471.201,"text":"好我在這邊有一個比較具體的提議啦因為現在呢根據性別平等法規定7天應該要以家庭照顧假為計算如果可能你們因為這個現行法規的考量或者是這個預算的考量如果我們來要求勞動部研擬修改勞工的請假辦法再增加7天的試假的扣打但是不給新的給予育兒幼兒照顧假您覺得這方面是可行的嗎"},{"start":473.388,"end":489.144,"text":"報告委員我覺得這個部分都可以討論那我們可以邀請勞資雙方的團體大家來開會凝聚共識看怎麼來做因為這牽涉到他們的雙方的權益所以你覺得一個月內如果沿你這個勞工無薪"},{"start":490.365,"end":491.706,"text":"這是本黨之前在選舉期間提出但我看非常多的民進黨委員也提出跟我們相同的看法"},{"start":508.493,"end":529.686,"text":"認為需要追隨我們國際的標準將我們現行的產價延長到14週但是我也看了一下部長您的回覆是覺得說第一因為台灣是中小型企業比較多麻煩會不利女性的就業第二許許多多我們跟其他國家的計算方式不一樣所以呢我有看了"},{"start":530.606,"end":558.963,"text":"你們有一個150頁的報告是各國對於育兒勞工之影響及相關補助策略上寫得非常詳細我覺得部長您的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所他們做足了資料但是我們從裡面看起來勒不管是產假育嬰留停的津貼或是有薪資整體的週數其實我們都大幅的落後這些OECD的先進國家非常多"},{"start":559.543,"end":583.127,"text":"甚至丹麥阿法國他們還分成懷第一胎懷第二胎以及懷雙胞胎他產假的週數都有不同因為他知道說雙胞胎一定需要更久或是第二胎同時照顧第一胎會更累但是部長您覺得我們是不是應該要再稍微調整成比八週再長一點呢"},{"start":584.578,"end":596.925,"text":"報告委員,因為這個部分我是覺得也很多委員在倡議。我覺得我也有交代優待會說這個我們應該再來做一些討論,看看是不是可以來適度的把這個產價的這個週數是不是要"},{"start":600.587,"end":605.792,"text":"當然今天也有一個重點是講到男性育嬰假這個是許許多多的民意調查去調查為什麼台灣的男性會不想要請育嬰假這都非常合理比如說他們因為薪水因為主管的升遷考量"},{"start":628.911,"end":642.321,"text":"因為怕被講話他人的觀感等等覺得丟臉好這個是要給予勞動部肯定的2022年部長您知道為什麼男性申請育嬰假的比例創新高到達25%嗎"},{"start":645.543,"end":660.096,"text":"這個報告委員因為我們放寬齁第一個他其實可以同時30天短期數也可以再來他可以同個別或同時啦還有就是那個我們多了兩成的公務預算的補助薪資補助我想這個都是誘因的"},{"start":661.396,"end":681.98,"text":"對 這個媒體也有幫您分析的當然有一些津貼再來疫情是一個很大的因素因為疫情期間有非常多托育的地方其實沒有開放所以他們不得不把小孩帶回家我覺得看到這樣子非常好因為根據您那個150頁的報告丹麥已經非常努力了男性的育兒假申請也頂多到30%然後我們居然可以在2022年衝到25%可是呢我希望這個數據"},{"start":689.261,"end":710.34,"text":"不要2023、2024又變回原來的10幾%對,因為我們就沒有疫情的加持了嘛所以今天有看到各位的匯報那各位的匯報有提到說呢我們要鼓勵這個全序部要鼓勵有申請育嬰留停的男性公務員出來做一些經驗分享"},{"start":711.341,"end":737.391,"text":"當然這個利益是很好但實際帶動的效果我覺得是有限啦這邊提供部長一個參考日本呢你也知道日本的文化也許比我們看待我們男性還要更為保守嘛所以日本他會做到說他由上往下整個去找出員工超過100人的公司並且這大概5萬家去制定而且公佈男性育嬰休假的比例的目標"},{"start":738.877,"end":739.037,"text":"陳菁徽委員"}]}},{"id":"150892","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150892","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839810157c7ff5b5eb6715942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6c1db3c457e706b235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:11:18 - 09:23:13","影片長度":"00:11:55","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":715,"end_time":"2024-04-08T09:23:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T09:11:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":174,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時11分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早安。部長，請問你有沒有聽過一句在網路上廣為流傳的順口溜，叫做「十萬青年十萬肝，GG輪班救臺灣」？這一句話談的就是，當然台積電對臺灣經濟發展的貢獻沒有人是否定的，但是在某個程度上，這個順口溜也代表了事實上這是用很多年輕人新鮮的肝以熬夜輪班換來的一個成果。近期張忠謀董事長在美國Arizona設廠，但是因為勞力短缺，所以進度整個是落後的，他在接受媒體採訪的時候就提到，他無法理解為什麼美國年輕員工對於工作跟生活品質要求平衡的態度，也就是Work Life Balance的態度，我想請教部長，對於這樣的說法，您的想法是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們勞動部一向主張工作跟生活要平衡，工作的時候我們當然要努力啦，但是適當的休息，讓身心能夠達到釋放，這是應該的。"],["陳委員昭姿：是，謝謝部長。部長，我講兩個小故事給你聽，我過去長期服務醫院的正對面就是一個非常非常有名的電腦公司，有一年他們全部的員工在我們醫院做健康檢查，結果我們發現他們的健康檢查數字是滿江紅。另外，我要談臺灣的健保，如果你問全民對臺灣健保的滿意度，大概都9成以上，可是如果您只調查醫療人員、醫事人員，也就是醫療提供者，大概滿意度頂多3成，這是比離死當還遙遠，也就是說，當事人提供這些服務的時候，他們認為那是用他們的血汗去撐出的這個奇蹟啦！當然，早期的住院醫師，包括我先生，他們當年一個月值十幾天的班，那是無眠無日的去值班啦，當然他們學習很快，也付出很大，但是現在連住院醫師都納入勞基法了嘛。當然，張忠謀董事長的想法，老實說我可以理解，可是時代不同了，對於大企業家發表這種有時候不是對勞工很正面的一個看法的時候，我不曉得勞動部的立場？就是說，您對於捍衛勞工追求自己比較期待的生活方式，你們的想法如何？你們會不會站出來捍衛勞工對生活跟工作品質平衡的期待？"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，因為工作與生活平衡一向是勞動部的政策重點啦，我們其實也都鼓勵企業、企業主能夠讓勞工有適當的休閒，甚至要提供一些紓壓課程，然後讓勞工的身心能夠達到平衡。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長，你就是強調要一個兼顧或平衡的想法啦！"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：不過，早期很辛苦、白手起家的企業家們因為經歷不同、時代不同，當然就會有不同的想法。","部長，我們回到今天的主題，很多雙薪家庭不敢生孩子，我們先撇開經濟因素，當然雙薪家庭相對來說經濟因素可能是少一點點，但是他們還是不願意生小孩，部長，您瞭解他們最主要的理由可能是什麼嗎？就是雙薪家庭還是沒有要生孩子的原因。"],["許部長銘春：不生小孩的因素很多啦，但是其實能不能兼顧到育兒，工作跟育兒能不能兼顧，這其實也是年輕人考慮的重點。"],["陳委員昭姿：對，部長您談得非常正確，據我們的瞭解，以整個蒐集的資料來看，第一個就是時間都給了工作，根據媒體報導，很多家長的共同困擾就是他們因為要兼顧工作跟家庭，所以他們覺得陪伴孩子的教育或成長的時間有限，沒有辦法很完整，即便交給保母等等，他們還是會擔心環境跟照顧的品質。另外就是他們白天的時間都付出給工作，這是我們的責任，但是回到家裡以後，老實說很多工作也不能完全排除，在下班時間時還是必須做工作上的某一些支援跟回應，這是第一個，就是他們覺得在時間上沒有辦法，大概都給工作比較多的比率。","第二個就是請假的困擾跟不便性，例如剛剛您也報告到育嬰假，我知道育嬰假相對長嘛，所以他回到職場上的時候不一定能夠回到他比較期待的那個職位，雖然他有權利復職，但是有時候是有一些困難。還有，孩子生下來了之後需要照顧，會發生一些額外需要照顧的壓力，所以這些都會成為生育孩子、養育孩子的一些顧慮跟阻力。現行的法規是性別平等工作法第十六條，孩子3歲以前可以請育嬰假，但是老實說，孩子3歲以後還是會有一些需要額外照顧的情形嘛，所以這是第二件事，就是他們對於請假的部分，過去大概會用事假或特休來處理，就是請假的困擾與不便是第二個原因。","第三個，我認為時代不同了，在現行制度下是不是可能增加一些幫助生育孩子的誘因？如果是30年前質詢，我不會說這件事，我的時代是一年出生四十幾萬個孩子，但是我孩子的時代是一年出生30萬個孩子，部長應該知道去年只出生了十三萬多個小孩，所以我覺得各部門是不是應該在現有的工作制度下加一點讓他們願意生孩子的誘因，尤其育齡族群絕對是我們整個生產力的主力，他們生小孩，有孩子是讓我們國家繼續壯大、永續的一個非常重要的因素。很多的調查都發現，沒有完善的育兒配套措施，確實是跟生育率有正相關，這個很多研究調查都證實了，所以部長，人口負成長已經成為我們的國安問題。","誠如我剛才提到的，去年出生的嬰兒才十三萬多人，我們除了要鼓勵出生外，對於已經出生的孩子，怎麼樣幫助父母親在職場工作能夠有完善的照顧跟陪伴，這也很重要。請部長看一下右邊這個表，這個是去年8月TVBS用Social Lab去查所謂的網路聲量，也就是討論的排行榜，職場父母育兒6大困擾，您可以看到第一名就是缺乏時間陪伴孩子，這個占最高，排行第一，第二個是育兒政策配套不完善，接下來還有保母的問題，另外甚至有很多女性還在思考是不是要離職來當一個全職媽媽，這幾個因素也讓部長做參考。","部長，現行有二個法條居然是父母有義務跟責任，一個是幼兒教育及照顧法第四十一條規定家長負有參加教保服務機構之幼兒及親職活動之義務，第二個是教育基本法規定家長負有輔導子女之責任，部長，這個法律您知道嗎？就是當爸爸媽媽是有法律責任的，但是他們大部分都是透過私人假期或事假去參與這個親職活動，所以部長，我們可能某個程度要幫助他們來解決問題。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：因為時間有限，我們再看下一張。部長，有一個東西叫做親職教育，親職教育是一個名詞，我也是這次才學習到的，就是指為人父母要學習教養子女的一些教育課程，內容包括正確的親子關係、父母職責的認識、親子溝通的教育跟方法、了解兒童所面對的社會問題與解決之道，還有自我成長等等。但是面對這些，也許學校老師非常努力、非常認真去籌辦這些親職教育的活動，希望能夠提高家長的參與率，但事實上，家長的出席率還是不高，主要是他們不敢請假或是不方便請假，親職教育假是有其意義跟責任的，部長，您是不是支持有這個親職教育假？那個是法規規定的，親職教育假，過去沒有的。"],["許部長銘春：親職教育假，其實……"],["陳委員昭姿：對，剛剛我特別提到它是有一些內容、內涵的。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實對於育兒或相關孩子的照顧，我們現在其實有一些假別可以運用，譬如說有家庭照顧假，他如果是要參加，因為大部分都是會安排在假日或下班……"],["陳委員昭姿：您提到家庭照顧假，我再給你看下一張，我原本也要談這個家庭照顧假，家庭照顧假在現行法也是有一些問題的。銓敘部109年12月11月發布的函釋，家庭照顧假應該要依個案事實進行合理認定，再去從寬給假，而且請假日數不併入事假計算。但是現在這個時代的生活型態不同，會有新的狀況，譬如之前的疫情期間，小孩有一些感染等等，他可能會需要一些額外的，就是隨著時代不同，他需要的家庭照顧假也可能不同。目前是7天，請問可不可能去考慮因應時代的不同、需求不同，家庭照顧假也可以有某個程度的放寬？包括時間。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我覺得這個是可以討論啦，有些親職假，家庭照顧假其實類似可以運用到親職的照顧上面去，有些我是覺得可以與時俱進來檢討。"],["陳委員昭姿：我們可以來檢討，因為時代真的不同，我們現在真的是缺小孩嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：現在就業保險法照顧的對象包括失業給付、提早就業獎助津貼、職業訓練生活津貼、育嬰留職停薪津貼、失業人保險等等津貼。剛剛我在前面提到的親職假津貼、親職教育假津貼、家庭照顧假津貼，可不可能因為時代的需要，考慮在現有的就業保險津貼裡面加入這幾項？本黨當然會提出相關的草案、法規，我不知道勞動部有沒有在準備這個事？假設把它放進去，會讓家長覺得他配合這些活動的參與跟學習是一種責任跟榮譽，而不是他要被扣薪的那種負面感受，而且對他們願意養育孩子這種意願應該很正面。"],["許部長銘春：增加相關的津貼來支持，這個方向可以討論，但是如果以就保的財源來看，我覺得這個還是會在財源的問題，因為現在就保中育嬰留停占了我們的大宗，占44%以上，將近45%，失業給付占了43%。現在……"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長，我瞭解財源是一個問題，但是因為時代不同……"],["許部長銘春：留停津貼比失業給付……，原來就保的目的是作為失業給付的財源，但沒有關係，這個我們一樣支持，我的意思是說，如果整個要擴大到親職假津貼其實不夠，因為現在每年的結餘大概50億而已，會不夠。我們算過，大概要看這個親職假到底是幾天，然後……"],["陳委員昭姿：當然也可以限制。"],["許部長銘春：涉及津貼的範圍到什麼程度，金額啦！如果單就就保的財源來看會不夠……"],["陳委員昭姿：瞭解，部長，大家一起努力。"],["許部長銘春：一起努力，大家可能要檢討財源。"],["陳委員昭姿：友善育兒職場對我們整個國家的生育率、工作環境、要做善盡責任的父母是有幫助的。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳昭姿委員。","接下來請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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雞雞輪班救臺灣"},{"start":23.724,"end":29.969,"text":"這一句話他談的就是我們當然對這個臺經濟對臺灣經濟發展的貢獻沒有人是否定的但是就是說某個程度這個順口日也代表了就是說事實上就是有很多年輕人新鮮的肝因為熬夜這個輪班換來的一個成果那近期那個張忠謀董事長他因為在美國亞利桑那他設廠但是他因為勞力短缺他的進度整個是落後的"},{"start":53.727,"end":68.416,"text":"他在接受媒體採訪的時候他就提到說他無法理解為什麼美國年輕的員工他對於這個工作跟生活品質要求這個平衡的一個態度就是work and life balance的態度那我想請教部長您對這樣的說法您的想法是什麼"},{"start":73.859,"end":100.361,"text":"報告委員 我們勞動部一向主張工作跟生活要平衡工作的時候我們當然也要努力但是適當的休息讓身心能夠達到釋放這個是應該的謝謝部長部長我講兩個小故事給您聽我服務的醫院正對面就是過去長期服務就是一個非常非常有名的電腦公司有一年他們全部的員工在我們醫院做健康檢查結果我們發現他的健康檢查數字是滿江紅"},{"start":102.162,"end":120.337,"text":"那另外我要談這個台灣的健保台灣的健保如果你問全民的這個滿意度大概都9成以上可是如果您只調查醫療人員醫事人員的就是醫療提供者大概滿意度頂多3成這是比離死盪還遙遠所以就是說當事人提供這些服務的時候他們認為是用他們的血汗"},{"start":121.198,"end":121.238,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":151.518,"end":155.36,"text":"您對於捍衛勞工他們追求比較他期待的生活方式您的想法或是你們會不會站出來捍衛這個勞工的期待對生活的跟工作品質平衡的期待"},{"start":170.201,"end":187.558,"text":"您好,因為工作與生活平衡一向是勞動部的一個政策的重點。我們其實也都鼓勵企業主能夠讓勞工有適當的一個休閒,甚至要提供一些紓壓的課程,然後讓勞工能夠"},{"start":192.122,"end":220.982,"text":"謝謝部長您就強調說是要一個堅固或平衡的一個想法不過早期很辛苦白手起家的企業家他們當然經歷不同時代不同他會有不同的想法部長我們回到今天主題很多雙薪小雙薪家庭他不敢生孩子我們先撇開這個經濟因素當然雙薪相對他的經濟因素可能是少一點點但是您覺得他們還是不願意生小孩部長您瞭解他們最主要的理由可能是什麼嗎就是雙薪家庭他們還是沒有要生孩子這樣子"},{"start":222.663,"end":229.586,"text":"部長您談得非常正確第一個據我們了解整個收集資料第一個就是時間都給了工作因為這個根據媒體報導很多家長的共同困擾就是說他們因為要兼顧工作跟家庭"},{"start":244.494,"end":246.955,"text":"所以他們覺得陪伴孩子的教育或成長的時間是有限沒有辦法很完整那即便交給保姆等等他們還是會擔心環境跟照顧的品質另外就是說他白天都付出給工作這是我們的責任"},{"start":260.023,"end":270.787,"text":"但是回到家裡說老實說很多工作不能完全排除你在下班時間以後還是必須做你工作上的某一些支援跟回應這是第一個就他們覺得在時間上沒有辦法大概都給的工作比較多的比例第二個就是請假的這個困擾跟不便性例如說剛剛您也報告到育嬰假但是我知道育嬰假因為相對長所以他回到職場上他不一定能夠回到他比較期待的那個職位"},{"start":286.592,"end":312.421,"text":"指定的他必須看他有權力復職但是有時候是有一些困難還有孩子生下來了他需要照顧他會發生一些額外的需要照顧的這個壓力所以這些都會成為就是說生育孩子養育孩子的一些顧慮跟這個阻力那現行的法規是性別平等工作法第16條孩子3歲以前可以請育嬰假但是老實說孩子3歲以後還是會有一些額外你需要照顧的這個"},{"start":315.022,"end":332.132,"text":"所以這是第二件事就是說他們對於請假過去大概就會用試假特休來處理就是說請假的困擾不變是第二個第三個我認為時代是不同的現行的制度下是不是可能會加一些幫助生育孩子的一些誘因如果是30年前執行我不會加這件事我的時代是一年生40幾萬孩子但是我的孩子是生30萬孩子但去年部長知道生了13萬多的小孩"},{"start":341.397,"end":359.253,"text":"所以我是覺得各部門是不是應該在現有的工作制度下加一點幫助讓他們願意生孩子幼嬰尤其這個育嬰族群他絕對是我們整個生產力的主力嘛那他們生小孩這個孩子是有孩子是讓我們國家繼續壯大永續的一個非常重要的因素"},{"start":360.134,"end":377.16,"text":"所以很多的調查都發現說沒有完善的這個育兒配套措施確實是跟增育率的這個有正相關正相關的這個很多研究調查都證實所以部長人口負成長已經成為我們的國安問題那去年出生我剛剛提到才13萬多人"},{"start":378.94,"end":397.907,"text":"對於已經出生的孩子怎麼樣幫助父母親在職場工作能夠有完善的照顧跟陪伴這也很重要請部長看一下右邊這個表這個是去年八月TVS他用social lab去查這個所謂的網路的那些聲量的就討論的排行榜"},{"start":400.128,"end":415.793,"text":"職場父母育兒六大困難你可以看到第一名就是缺乏時間陪伴孩子這個占最高排行第一第二個是育兒政策配套不完善那還有保母的問題另外甚至有很多是女性她還在思考我是不是要離職來當一個全職媽媽這幾個因素也讓部長做參考部長這個現行有兩個法條居然是父母有義務跟責任一個就是幼兒教育及照顧法第41條"},{"start":427.017,"end":449.879,"text":"他說家長父有參加教保服務機構之幼兒及親子活動的義務第二個教育基本法規定家長父有輔導子女的責任那部長這個法律您知道嗎就是說當爸爸媽媽是有責任有法律責任的但是大部分他們參加這個都是透過私人假期或試假參與這個親子活動所以部長我們可能某個程度要"},{"start":451.34,"end":456.924,"text":"幫助他們來解決,因為時間有限,我們再看下一張有一個東西叫做親職活動,親職教育親職教育是一個名詞,就是說我也是這樣這次才學習就是指為人父母要學習教養子女的一些教育課程,內容包括正確的親子關係父母職責的認識,親子溝通的教育跟方法瞭解兒童所面對的社會問題去解決,自我成長等等"},{"start":476.238,"end":498.991,"text":"但是面對這些也許學校老師非常努力非常認真去籌辦這些輕職教育的活動但是希望能夠提高家長的參與率但事實上家長的出席率還是不高那主要是他們不敢請假或未必就是說也不方便請假那輕職教育假是有他的意義跟這個責任那部長您是不是支持有這個輕職教育假那個是法規規定的輕職教育假過去沒有的"},{"start":503.954,"end":526.166,"text":"其實對於就是育兒或相關孩子照顧的我們現在其實有一些價別是可以運用比如說有這個家庭照顧假他所說是要參加因為大部分都是會在假日或下班您提到家庭照顧假我再給你下一張就是我要談"},{"start":527.206,"end":553.929,"text":"家庭照顧假,家庭照顧假現行法也是有一些問題他這個在全序部109年12月10日發布的函式說家庭照顧假應該要個案適時進行合理認定再給予重寬認定而且不要併入人事這個併入這個試假但是現在的時代生活形態不同會有新的狀況他譬如說之前疫情期間譬如說小孩有一些感染就說他可能會需要一些額外的就是說"},{"start":554.189,"end":579.531,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":579.531,"end":607.952,"text":"我們可以要講因為時代真的不同我們現在真的是缺小孩嘛下一張最後一張就是說我們在看現在就業保險法裡面他照顧的對象包括事業給付提早就業獎助津貼職業訓練生活津貼育嬰留職津貼失業人保險等等津貼但是剛剛我這個前面都提到一些都輕職假津貼輕職教育假家庭照顧假可不可能在這個現有的這個就業保險津貼裡面把因為時代所需要"},{"start":609.352,"end":614.473,"text":"加入這幾項來做考慮因為我們本黨大概會提出相關的法規相關的草案法規那我不知道勞動部有沒有在準備這個事我覺得假設假設把它放進去會讓家長覺得說我如果來配合這些活動的參與跟學習這是一種責任跟榮譽而不是說我要被扣薪的那種負面感受"},{"start":631.237,"end":653.686,"text":"我覺得對他們要願意養育孩子這種意願應該很正面我想增加相關的這個津貼來支持這個方向我是覺得是可以來討論但是就是說如果是以舊保的財源來看我是覺得這個問題還是會在財源的問題因為我們在舊保在支現在是幾乎育嬰留停是佔了我們的大宗44%以上44%將近45%失業給付佔了43%就是說我們現在"},{"start":660.628,"end":678.193,"text":"謝謝部長。了解財源是一個問題。但是時代不同。原來舊保的目的是失業給付的一個財源。但沒有關係,這個我們一樣支持。但現在我的意思說,如果整個要擴大到金質價,今天其實是不夠。因為我們現在每年的結餘大概……"},{"start":679.173,"end":679.373,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":701.101,"end":701.662,"text":"陳昭姿委員"}]}},{"id":"15790","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15790","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea307cb56df1ecea5290a0be61fea148183be8d109af184be456a2b4e7d7d7a1c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-08","start_time":"2024-04-08T08:30:30+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-10"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-08T13:09:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":16710,"委員發言時間":"08:30:30 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"主計是主任林秀春。人事是代理主任劉立真。政控是主任朱志明。財團法人客家傳播基金會陳邦真。"},{"start":2206.661,"end":2220.471,"text":"總經理莊盛宏大陸委員會主任委員邱泰山中和規劃處盧中尼經濟處處長葉凱平法政處處長"},{"start":2236.195,"end":2265.344,"text":"周銘瑞、港澳門帳處處長盧長水、秘書室主任喜金魯、主計室主任柯淑玲、行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李易羅。好,謝謝我們以上列席的官員。"},{"start":2273.322,"end":2274.203,"text":"主席 各位委員"},{"start":2298.001,"end":2312.911,"text":"財長各位同仁、媒體的信仰設計大家好。今日,肥宗、永恆、蘇、尤、暢、萊多利、W、列、西、VMV、邱、哈格、VMV、諸葛、納、烏、韓國內、桑、菲、吉林斯提案判理的情況提出了報告。"},{"start":2314.076,"end":2321.082,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":2341.839,"end":2365.578,"text":"推通客家經驗注入促進凍結文化沙啡加持、 完善行業學用的環境提升行業發力、 修設客家文化的力量推進衣紋的通能、 推辦客藏沙啡緊急發展、 帶通客家文化理由、整合應用研究調查、 迅速破問題採取的提示。"},{"start":2367.239,"end":2371.504,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":2387.603,"end":2408.855,"text":"二、製裁客家委員會文化產業發展商安利亞技術為持續整合、裁剔職業、營利、強化裁剔客家移民、打造客家產業品牌、推通客家文化發展機、重塑客家鄉鎮區域的圖書館空間功能、推判客家文藝復興運動計劃。"},{"start":2412.68,"end":2426.607,"text":"協助鄉鎮公所發揮客家文化中心公園營業副鎮的功能。二、以建築客家沖淡市鎮的申告及展望,兼邀向各位報告,堅強各位委員職高。三、俗稱的關於客家沖淡市鎮候個體的部分,兼具客家行政協助體內。"},{"start":2436.308,"end":2457.4,"text":"大多出權主流法公共平台,透過規格客家發展計劃．提防客家發展計劃．推通鄉鎮合作文藝復興策略的覆託．從中央普遍、策劃司、延伺政府、鄉鎮私企工作．三大層面的兼顧客家政策的協作體內．發揮行政綜合．"},{"start":2461.363,"end":2482.959,"text":"能夠推動天衣企劃及客家發展計劃．延續促進主流化及經濟主流的核心精神．鼓勵提防政府復託白宮遭負責．客家文化改善的服務．甚至創新客家議員文化的重要基地．發展為客家中最受宣發權的．日送公共事務的．屬妙的天衣．日確診行業通行的兩位．完善遲延使用行業環境．"},{"start":2491.323,"end":2496.468,"text":"行為基礎及應徵開判60行為宣派責經。 二、112年9月開始開判時合．單元及合同的基礎及應徵．提擺判例．增加國際學生對於行為學習的興趣。 112年判例後．行為年齡基礎及"},{"start":2518.71,"end":2529.759,"text":"及處及年增、總及、及、總國及年增、及、國及年增。推動奪用太極行業計劃全面擴展行業和社會繁殖。"},{"start":2531.387,"end":2554.974,"text":"發掘行業、生意、教育其他用匪群和體制的聲音教育領域將客家議員文化、各類事脈絡充分融入學校課程,讓可推通全行業的幼兒園、尤其是幼兒園層,鼓勵客家文化重點發展企業的共識立幼兒園,營造其他在全客家全行業教育的學習場域。"},{"start":2558.203,"end":2561.066,"text":"二、立法院第11屆第12會期內政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":2577.659,"end":2592.03,"text":"提供實質檢証的及非。九一普勒本非度113年．非函發布了《國企總定義和學校企業委員行為實質培育資格與聘用判法分結團規劃》。"},{"start":2594.291,"end":2609.736,"text":"應聘用客家公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會公共傳播基金會"},{"start":2618.717,"end":2640.356,"text":"為致相關專家及各國的專家共同來討論推動的經驗．及有助社企參與實質保育的面向。第三、利用擴大行業同行的兩位．推動社企相關的意識．對替捧政府進行審核平台各種獎勵．110年度中央局局長策劃司．原始政府．督教．"},{"start":2644.62,"end":2657.15,"text":"65宗延遲機關、中央所屬的機關及其提防、供售、發展並備用推通行業費同行業納入基金的營業額55筆。最高於107年合同提起廣告營業、通過行業2年增已經達到11,000人。增增超過4,600人,算上比例的70人。"},{"start":2671.462,"end":2677.546,"text":"二、叛逆14場行動卡車場次國內13場轉場的行動法通．令到各國客家總會出席向民眾來宣傳行動法通．"},{"start":2687.412,"end":2697.922,"text":"三期共合的整體分委。兩位合同圖書官等從未聽起即判合法公告事法通。113年你還聽17張延遲以給為叛逆錯過600場次的合法公告事法通過資管的訓練真人法通。"},{"start":2707.025,"end":2720.45,"text":"第二、持續促進行業及醫療、推通行業及科技的結合。第二、113年2月案例已經完成了2人偏食2人醫療,西燕窮676C,海陸窮300C。第二、2人合成的醫療,西燕窮、海陸窮各60C,開放醫療、生產、輸錢。"},{"start":2733.786,"end":2739.049,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":2756.34,"end":2760.086,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":2771.823,"end":2779.11,"text":"第三、開展獨眼促群交流．推動客家參與國際事務業．攀離客家文化發展計劃．帶通獨眼文化交流．120年而你攀離客家文化發展計劃．學術及處調查．"},{"start":2787.881,"end":2806.33,"text":"記錄客家企業的分布情況及文化現象,老倪蘭燕及六十燕絲共同推動客家文化發展持盤計劃。分析3期動員出卷議事,觀察客家文化的體制。二、推展客家鄉原住民之間的發展,促進出卷公共控告。"},{"start":2807.81,"end":2830.176,"text":"二、技術委託學術單位推動執行向原住民資金納下臺灣客家移民塊錢時．結盤．判立原住民及客家強生園3對3的藍球賽．要看促權．除了客家原住民以外．要反映其他促權共同參與。三、自保客家向原住民資金的短片及主題節目．判立年核提展．"},{"start":2830.856,"end":2839.013,"text":"文化、教育、體驗等法律促進聯合合作交流﹐尋求促進良心互通與用修、強勇發展。"},{"start":2841.021,"end":2855.212,"text":"三、三雄政策的研發力推動陸有同流的發動,而內閣省福利部局的各縣市政府持續推動攀離白宮洲負責．121年度由17個縣市設設在客家文化沖淀發展期,過21屆非客家文化沖淀發展期。總統審理了773個基點。"},{"start":2865.179,"end":2870.564,"text":"二、提醒委員會內有269個白宮政府負責任權的貴重事務委員．及盤若有同樂．及若同產品人資約2.2萬人．希望利用若有加幾個議員的能力．支援的普通當中．本宣言合法．"},{"start":2888.427,"end":2897.726,"text":"提示客家委員會推展戶外交流、競發合作強硬公共產品．若求委員會交易或免費等客家委員會共同攀離．戶外強硬因應復營．"},{"start":2900.68,"end":2911.832,"text":"提升各種合同的營運能力：兩位伴侶客家長少年國際事務訪問團：在新加坡、馬來西亞兩國經行國際事務和文化交流的管理學習及職業服務：要部署新南平客家伴侶導演文化的合同。基本1、2、3客家貢獻獎備用："},{"start":2922.783,"end":2929.308,"text":"電力企業全國客家業經營發通、養齡客家經營主流．今年的9位客家貢獻獎得主．及87位客家專業事務獎得主．已發佈一套人員糾正合法的宣言。三、推辦合作三期緊急推廣客家文化理由．"},{"start":2946.158,"end":2966.102,"text":"二、推動合同菜市場品牌法．八項提起該名的產業．打造提防品牌的目的．希望透過菜市場的產品．來帶通提防的經濟．有名企業共同合作提升客家產品．出現現代生活創建的機會．"},{"start":2968.783,"end":2971.326,"text":"第二、基盤事件核桿破爛費．共同創造核桿的管用。第二、113年半年設備到15、66年．老土研室政府共同核盤．17張研室共同基盤．"},{"start":2983.638,"end":2987.825,"text":"七十三名藝術創創者來監獄、策戰、策過200場次的法通、8500名的資工參與,期望策過1100萬人,創作會後月策過385億人在策過的年內規劃的目標。"},{"start":2999.222,"end":3013.353,"text":"三、實際客家主席李佑春年客家差替生育．實際童法小里行、客家小里行、藏族小路燈導演主席．輔導293集團體推通李佑的拖欄．一、李佑及其共同推通提升客家"},{"start":3021.9,"end":3029.286,"text":"管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管管"},{"start":3044.597,"end":3048.299,"text":"傳統機器、小招牌、全政已經完成7項, 超過560名招牌該籌,目前已推動到北部及其他文化組織發展機分分了解相關效應。"},{"start":3060.439,"end":3067.942,"text":"經推動客家規格遲延補託,兼具有總值稅率的營運,因此這間工作已經進行了5年。因此結合延伸22條補託、設置適當點及救助工作站,因此固定了期盼開放營的態勢。"},{"start":3078.866,"end":3087.235,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播計6案。三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":3100.688,"end":3122.682,"text":"及所屬及傳統審判空間的關鍵元素。二、推動總修正6等於3百年等6次的提防企業示範空間。目前進行的外基特 企業經營形式﹐希望本民意在合作裁剔的企業做得透過樣件的方式﹐集體、形塑在民眾審判的空間當中接觸得到。提前的合作半年經營審判權﹐爆發﹐"},{"start":3129.309,"end":3137.952,"text":"二、企業發展人員金．所屬於臺三省農民貸託延伸於各種百年經驗．計劃的司法規劃範圍．提出了各種政體空間發展人員金規劃．落結在關西金山面頭前海．沃米沿途印尼市沃米斧施探中國．國內台甲、臺岸送海．"},{"start":3156.097,"end":3166.183,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":3175.608,"end":3196.244,"text":"傳遞多年促進的議事。 三、蔡苗栗、台中、國雄、屏東、潘理料、赫雅、晉、智、泰、希。基本議碼法通都全國80件事已經順序。 累積的管理人數超過4萬人次。 要求傳統的協調和現代與同作的產業性的表現,兩方都非常充實。"},{"start":3201.528,"end":3207.433,"text":"第二、發揚客家傳譯累積客家委員會能量．2011年．已期盼到桃園市客家文化觀園一堂傳統希客客團的展現．中央有40客團參與．"},{"start":3218.062,"end":3226.309,"text":"由金滿園客家委員會得到冠軍。當然希望透過兩個方式來鼓勵促進提升傳統客家客家才藝術上的表現。基盤客家傳統國有的交流管務室今年總共有555對18973人員來打破紀錄。"},{"start":3245.525,"end":3260.309,"text":"目前正在進行行業型報告的運動：客家總及客家公共希望出席高級的、弱的、繁榮的報告委員會內兩位有關行業的報告本的立法院來傳送。三、優化客家運用商業建業主流傳播市場："},{"start":3266.636,"end":3290.188,"text":"第二、導演藥師合作開發促進客家的主流化：二、文化內容設計院財團法院客家公共傳播基金會共同開發1977年各種相片。各位客家天使、文化部、臺南市政府,您執照了期間的契機成功客家無償待遇,您希望加油先推移民傳播的標籤來提升行業在3V當中的接觸度。"},{"start":3295.35,"end":3306.598,"text":"行業業務的影響化：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主流業務的市場：擴建主"},{"start":3324.141,"end":3325.463,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":3341.926,"end":3353.036,"text":"第三、編輯、學習、經典文學推廣各名額託的分析。六、處委員會偵查檢討日次委員會的履歷及詮釋的出版。七、出版總修正圖盤房格﹐並備備經典學習文學家作品的圖本。八、副圖總修正文學研期﹐領研中文學研期﹐等五、處的文學端。"},{"start":3366.647,"end":3395.45,"text":"搬離21層次的文學照圖：列出結合3期共同來盤特殊費本董協議員託到董協財神所寫的作品。六宿也要盡量各種各樣的客家經典文學．反映出西班牙文、英文、德文、捷克語．目前,六宿得到好個翻譯．甚至壓裁那個西班牙、那個二國獨．又得到那個世界新的台帳．"},{"start":3397.065,"end":3398.548,"text":"新的獨眼體審項目與諮詢項目與諮詢項目與諮詢項目與諮詢項目與諮詢項目與諮詢項目與諮詢"},{"start":3409.253,"end":3435.599,"text":"客家的文學、業務、生育、收入的品味。二、新港3月及六幅全聯OK便利商店、查通費店、送入、同路合作。簡單說,兩個計劃主要希望行業以現代的、正面的形式、形態出現在主流的審判當中。三、推通行業企業消費基金、創意議員、導演文化。"},{"start":3438.086,"end":3442.971,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":3453.783,"end":3469.665,"text":"太新的營業創作、經驗、採集的商業服務當中﹐不用說只有在客家中﹐在一般的地區﹐要做的由行業服務﹐使得行業的出現提升﹐提升它的對於出群平等的理解觀念﹐"},{"start":3470.026,"end":3475.511,"text":"目前要協調金融監督機關文化部年初名VMV﹐希望將多年營運文化顧及跨營運的表現﹐作為擁有雙思雙規公司企業社會基金﹐社會組織當中提升全體企業共同的參與。"},{"start":3495.288,"end":3510.622,"text":"其6通訪記的紀錄片因此全國損失。鄺台國際評討會播出。因此紀錄各種離散引文、養傷的紀錄片．反映身口的都全國救援18年至18重次的替養肥,總共有3千……"},{"start":3512.243,"end":3524.249,"text":"關於養顏飲食．入線紐約國際天樣節．雖然國際天樣節各位．那時的天樣節都有在獎。113年生命業控制AXNRT企業的國際頻道播出．目前仍有平台YouTube、免費本、所有的鄉親．所有的國民、鄉親來審訊。但推薦議員關於合作性索差提及提示報告．"},{"start":3537.591,"end":3563.641,"text":"第二,推動換人外文職部署的調查．奉附文職人入場．用書籍電廠．實體電廠．冰沖．刺繡．增加了馬來西亞客家沙團領域．全埔苗栗台府暢食山鴨．相關的容積．新北市貴旺省永俏．不同的面向．到貴人外書廠．客家的藏品．目前的藏品已經．電藏品有一萬．"},{"start":3565.382,"end":3568.065,"text":"屬廠品及電廠品總共有16,020件在這五年內重覆發展到60成節。當然從其進行的合作調查"},{"start":3581.077,"end":3592.87,"text":"及資料要侵略及疏於法。第二、政策應用條件的審核懲罰報告跟文法推廣交流。第二、留守檢討臺灣國體業務部臺戰役的詳細調查。三、要檢討中南民族及臺灣客家及其反映客家發展的相關調查。"},{"start":3603.059,"end":3615.546,"text":"繼續累積臺灣對全世界客家研究的申告。一般113年,各市關於臺灣文獻館2個出版將會送出7件,其中2件得到郵訂,1件加賬。在國內各單位來說,這算是有相當好的表現。兩位議員結合官司合作的職員展示臺灣客家多重的面貌,各位的多元豐收的申告。"},{"start":3629.213,"end":3656.802,"text":"二、由客家委員會推出的《邊疆台灣客家》設立．以客家文化發展中心推出的《邊疆台灣客家多重面貌》．及客家文化聯戰八章的多元主題展覽．建資料及經典文復的書籍資料庫．及六章主題心理戰事．因此才屬重品．才戰事的設計方面．繼續求新求進步．"},{"start":3658.102,"end":3682.969,"text":"將國內的懲罰裁帖協助推通文化體驗及教育法通。兩、安理財六隊仇主席一百空半員開始當年出帝都交通部觀光署的臺灣觀光雙元樂創業法通的聯誼。一百一十年度帝都觀光兩店文化瑞法通及體驗的開場。六隊議員去落實了安理生態保護官的理念推出作對、總對、效對等。"},{"start":3684.449,"end":3712.308,"text":"行徒有償,臺灣文化官員結合同路查倉﹐攀離處內商局的牽行﹐結聯結密密的文化提供﹐及攀越維修理行電法通。第二,在未來﹐客家政策的推動﹐關於應用堅決客家行政﹐中央、燕市、七海市及各鄉鎮市及三区政府﹐協助的替代為目標﹐"},{"start":3715.009,"end":3736.978,"text":"為繼續執行第一期的規格客家發展計劃．結合希望客家發展計劃．來達成允許出權治理的全方位平台．擴大客家行政的能量．讓我們的行業產生的關鍵．才會俯致嚴強一套的行業能力．堅求友善的行業環境．而會自立出家庭、學校、社區．政府機關的輸出．"},{"start":3738.919,"end":3757.089,"text":"並且積極提升行業的營業賞望．本行業發力復正工作．有建設的推展反應．來開始一貫應糾正合法工廠的契機．本中央提防合作．共識鋪門協議．共同來完成行業復正的談議．以上的報告暫留大家的時間．經常各位委員自告．感謝大家聲援暗自謝。"},{"start":3768.695,"end":3773.099,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":3789.315,"end":3791.737,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":3804.6,"end":3828.459,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士先生、大家早首先向大院各位委員過去對本會業務推動的支持在這邊表示感謝有關大院審議陸委會113年度預算案裡面所做的凍結案總計有5萬以下就跟各位委員報告書面的部分已經在1月10號送給大院了"},{"start":3830.52,"end":3838.863,"text":"各項辦理情形分別敘述如下本會一般行政凍結50萬由於中國在112年修正反間諜法並在7月1日實施綜合研判結果認為這對我們國人"},{"start":3849.668,"end":3862.005,"text":"入港澳的人身安全會造成風險,所以我們除了繼續維持入港澳的旅遊警示是黃燈以外,那也做了相關的這個措施,包括設立專區硬式宣導這個"},{"start":3865.57,"end":3868.313,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":3888.332,"end":3908.678,"text":"複合治安法相關規定,編列資訊服務相關費用。113年到112年增加主要原因是因為整個檔案管理系統保固期滿,雲端網站防火牆租用期間也滿了,必須增加維護費用。"},{"start":3911.159,"end":3927.67,"text":"就本會經濟業務凍結100萬元的部分由於中國對臺灣進行貿易壁壘的調查偏偏認定我方構成貿易壁壘所以也在去年的12月21號就公告禁止我12項ECFA的12"},{"start":3929.21,"end":3955.935,"text":"實劃早收清單的優惠關稅。 經部也研擬了4大因應策略來協助業者克服各項困難。 此外,我們也多次利用兩岸協議的協商機制希望能夠透過管道來做相關的磋商。 也循WTO程序要求陸方進行技術性的諮商。"},{"start":3957.595,"end":3962.58,"text":"二、政府秉持臺灣優先的最高原則強化經濟的主體性跟確保臺灣經濟永續的發展所以我們會持續的關注兩岸情勢的變化協助業者來處理中國暫停臺灣農漁產品跟食品"},{"start":3974.871,"end":3985.954,"text":"輸入等相關問題。第三,有關本會港澳蒙藏業務凍結200萬元部分,由於長期陸委會關注香港情勢發展,也透過補助與舉辦講座、座談會、研討會與洽請學者"},{"start":3999.278,"end":4020.134,"text":"等多元的方式來廣納各界的意見並且跟相關的學者專家合作整合民間的資源來推廣香港這樣的一個研究另外由於香港情勢的變化急速本會也利用多元的管道提醒國人赴入港澳"},{"start":4020.774,"end":4025.577,"text":"二、中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案"},{"start":4040.888,"end":4065.725,"text":"由於疫後逐步恢復兩岸健康有序的交流是政府的既定政策目前兩岸交流的阻礙主要是陸方基於政治考量不願開放人民來台觀光我方也持續要求陸方能夠早日做出雙向開放的正確決定讓兩岸民眾可以安全自在進行"},{"start":4067.206,"end":4087.542,"text":"觀光旅遊的這個活動。此外中共因為介入113年我國的這個大選而且太陽繁多元企圖影響臺灣民眾的投票意向在經濟的層面除了前面前述的宣布貿易幣的調查結果並且終止12項實話的優惠產品關稅以外並且擴大進行反傾銷的調查操作臺灣農藝品輸入先卡"},{"start":4094.227,"end":4111.341,"text":"後方的差別待遇等,陸委會已經會同相關機關協助業者作為因應。五、有關本會法證業務凍結200萬的部分,這是等一下的討論事項。由於在括號一,中共在112年7月1日實施的《反間諜法》這樣的一個修正,"},{"start":4116.245,"end":4142.808,"text":"並且實施我們已經在官網上揭示可能被中共當局指控羅致入罪的行為太陽提醒國人來注意另外也鼓勵國人能夠赴大陸地區動態登陸系統多加利用以便我們可以來提供各項的協助第三近3年陸方協助遣返"},{"start":4143.248,"end":4169.359,"text":"包括新店槍擊命案、黃姓槍手等多名通緝犯攜帶接受我司法偵辦。二、陸方也曾洽請我方協助棄捕通緝犯顯示打擊犯罪各方都有合作需求。而且隨著疫情過去雙方治安機關也陸續展開各項交流跟合作。未來政府仍然持續透過雙邊協議管道向陸方表達應該落實"},{"start":4174.26,"end":4198.165,"text":"協議執行。最後,結與臺海和平符合區域各方的利益,陸委會將為本籬職者持續穩健應對中共對台作業,作為管控可能風險,捍衛國家主權與臺灣民主自由,期盼大院能同意解凍,並準以動之,以利本會業務順利推動。以上報告,敬請各位指教。"},{"start":4200.472,"end":4208.174,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及財團法人客家委員會及財團法人"},{"start":4224.982,"end":4241.387,"text":"因為今天處理預算本次會議就不處理臨時提案請各位委員有沒有意見好沒有好那我們現在進行審打登記我們第一的我們思巧會委員好謝謝好謝謝主席我們先請邱太三邱主委"},{"start":4255.04,"end":4255.76,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4275.99,"end":4276.791,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":4307.194,"end":4330.387,"text":"第二我想我們看到的是馬英九前總統他是用私人的身份去前往中國大陸大陸對待他也是用馬英九先生來稱呼他所以對於國人他個人要到大陸去做不管觀光旅遊或者是文教交流基本上我們當然就是期待他能夠順利平安返國"},{"start":4332.025,"end":4354.273,"text":"主委我能夠理解你的意思因為馬英九前總統也是說他是用私人的身份但是如果他今天完全是私人他要去觀光旅遊教育文化我們當然都沒有意見但今天他如果不是中華民國的前總統他有可能跟習近平見面嗎這根本就不可能的事情啊啊不然為什麼路上任何一個台灣去中國旅遊的人沒有辦法跟習近平見面"},{"start":4355.213,"end":4357.094,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4383.809,"end":4386.453,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4399.309,"end":4407.611,"text":"我們的前總統馬前總統竟然選在這個時間又去跟這個極權國家站在一起我記得2015年的時候馬習一會馬習會的時候其實回來的時候這個11月2015年11月13號其實國內就有個民調出來52.7%的國人認為馬英九未能捍衛主權不能捍衛主權"},{"start":4421.394,"end":4446.232,"text":"五十六點二的人認為馬英九總統當時的馬英九總統不能代表受訪者的意見然後大部分的人超過四成的人認為馬總統就是傾向於統一這樣的狀況所以我幫他下一個結論2019的馬習會國人不肯定但是今天我看今天大家很風平浪靜新聞大概也都只有一點點但我們還是要在質詢台這樣表示2015的馬習會"},{"start":4448.934,"end":4475.591,"text":"大家不肯定2024的馬習會我們也不在乎但我希望如果馬前總統在這個馬習二會的這個會議上面如果說出了什麼有損國格妨礙台灣主權的話立委會一定要在第一時間出來發表聲明我們一定會的啦所以我們會仔細關注後續的發展好 謝謝主委接下來我們請客委會楊主委"},{"start":4484.632,"end":4500.307,"text":"主委抱歉我可能還是應該要用華語跟您做一個救教那您方便我其實大部分聽得懂啦對其實聽久了就也習慣了不過為防萬一我看我還是待一下好了"},{"start":4501.808,"end":4504.31,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4522.805,"end":4552.474,"text":"把地區鄉鎮識別分成是不是客家重點發展區請問是和不是那這客委會在給予資源的時候有什麼差別嗎?老委員報告哈卡基本法當中規定哈卡營區超過三分之一以上的鄉鎮市區的重點發展區會加強哈卡營園發展要三大但是並不說其他地方都不是發展其他地方不是說其他地方就沒有嗎?"},{"start":4553.054,"end":4570.726,"text":"其他提防其他提出相關案件：例如最近在宜蘭看過其他提防其他提出關於全部已經變成蘇維埃俄羅斯學、西班牙學全部不要說學家法,因為含有部署本已做傳統空間隆頭的計劃"},{"start":4573.274,"end":4598.427,"text":"主委我完全了解但我必須跟你說因為現在客家人口隨著大部分其他族群的人口一樣的狀況也是有遷移啦遷移往都市化集中的狀況所以其實我們新北喔你看我們新北的客家人口數其實有67萬僅次於桃園市的90萬是直轄市裡面第二多可是因為我們不是群聚的狀況所以呢新北市沒有任何一個鄉鎮區是重點發展區域"},{"start":4600.928,"end":4628.871,"text":"那對大家來講這個公共建設上面還有辦理活動上面有時候還是會有一點落差那在這裡因為時間的關係剛剛已經分配一些給陸委會了所以我想直接跟主委建議您今天的這個整本這個客委會的業務報告裡面其實我都贊成而且覺得客委會以這樣少的預算和人力能夠做出這麼多的業務深表敬佩那我想提一個建議就是"},{"start":4630.205,"end":4653.034,"text":"您在這裡面做了很多鄉鎮區域的客家推動、客家文化推動的努力也對我們這個精緻藝術的部分做了很多的補助但其實不要忘了啦其實最多在日常跟客家事務相關的在地方尤其像我們不是群聚區其實就是人的群體也就是客家社團"},{"start":4653.934,"end":4677.986,"text":"那麼有沒有可能是你在對客家社團的補助上面我不是指要求要更多而是政策的方向可以下去引導比如說您推動了非常多的精緻藝術的部分所以我們現在甚至在金曲獎、客家歌手也有很多得獎然後在博物館、在文學等等也有非常多有了傑出的表現"},{"start":4678.846,"end":4704.035,"text":"那這些項目有沒有機會是透過地方的社團讓他們把兩者結合誰能夠做到你就給他更多的補助嘛尤其是包括親子的包括家庭的讓客家人的心血可以進到這個地方最活躍的社團當中所以諸位我再重申一次我認為在散居的都市區客家社團是重要的"},{"start":4704.855,"end":4724.885,"text":"那他應該得到補助但他的補助我建議按照您的方向可以開取更多不同的項目讓他們接受客委會的政策引導讓客家文化可以再活絡起來不然有一點可惜的是說如果我們每次去客家社團的活動都是只有擂茶、麻糬、唱善歌"},{"start":4726.886,"end":4727.607,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4749.384,"end":4751.185,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":4764.316,"end":4789.682,"text":"二、國內現代創造型的業務．全都為了創始．在方向案為加強因為我知道現在正是概算在編列的時候所以我才特別在這裡在跟客委會建議我希望今年不只是補助在地的客家社團而且可以多開這種計劃不同類型的新興計劃讓地方的在地客家社團也能夠感受到有新的方向政府的支持"},{"start":4795.65,"end":4797.472,"text":"主席主席主席我們有請我們客會主委客會主委"},{"start":4826.302,"end":4842.727,"text":"主委,不好意思我聽不懂,可能要麻煩你。我的母語還是習慣用閩南語,所以我們就用普通我們正常的方式來回應就好。那主委、委員,我想,你已經有反應了。要不然你請了,在國會當中,國家議員有表現機會。好的,謝謝主委。感謝委員。"},{"start":4853.171,"end":4876.432,"text":"主委客家人在臺東縣境內大概是4.4萬人那相較於我們原住民還有閩南人的人數算是少數那就讓我們不過臺東特有的這個多元族群的這個共生環境閩客圓心比鄰而居是很常見的這個情況那在臺東縣我們族群之間的互動是非常良性且正面的"},{"start":4877.794,"end":4880.075,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4894.606,"end":4918.763,"text":"主委我們行政院114年推出的客庄369幸福計畫它的內容應該是在臺山縣、六堆還有臺九縣各個客家區域的整體考量發展那其中呢我們臺九縣的整個是貫穿我們花東的縱谷北從吉安鄉然後一直南到臺東的鹿野鄉的這個幸福臺九縣計畫"},{"start":4919.964,"end":4933.963,"text":"主要是建立一些提供遊客休憩、販售在地農產品還有我們青年交流的預算的據點。主委本席在這次的報告你的報告書裡面怎麼沒有看到相關的執行計畫?是不是可能主委說明一下?"},{"start":4935.465,"end":4938.189,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":4952.028,"end":4954.989,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":4976.155,"end":4980.219,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。"},{"start":5000.456,"end":5004.823,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議"},{"start":5012.039,"end":5012.719,"text":"台東縣客庄小旅行景點在哪裏?"},{"start":5039.153,"end":5047.436,"text":"因為現在全體委員主要是接觸客家的生產目前為止當然在23年度陸續生產比較多當初生產的可能比較少因為現在是接觸生產假如沒人生產可能現在就沒有但是現在可以直接去輔導"},{"start":5066.359,"end":5068.14,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5083.314,"end":5101.451,"text":"所以你知道臺東縣比較有名的一個觀光活動是熱氣球熱氣球它所在地就是在我們鹿爺鄉鹿爺鄉裡面有一個叫龍舔銅花大道主委有去過嗎?其實這個在網路上非常有名所以這個應該也可以排在上面是不是可以列到我們整個觀光裡面?"},{"start":5102.151,"end":5108.315,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5121.807,"end":5126.651,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5143.084,"end":5145.967,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5164.625,"end":5165.967,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5180,"end":5201.073,"text":"謝謝主委,這剛好是本席要提到的就是我們台中縣早遲上相公所有提出這個客家文藝復興計畫那中間是補助了我們剛才主委提到的這個美國學校旁邊的這個有一棟舊的建物改建成這個關山客庄傳譯中心我想這點非常值得肯定這是中央跟地方共同推動客家文化很好的一個示範"},{"start":5202.054,"end":5208.356,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5231.542,"end":5233.224,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":5242.737,"end":5245.779,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":5262.99,"end":5264.672,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5277.816,"end":5307.066,"text":"主委剛才你提到的是客家因為很多不同的腔調所以很多的不同的表示方式對不對主委台中縣非常特殊我們台中縣是一個移民的城市那客家人雖然占了18%可是多半是從桃竹苗雲林六堆來的所以客語的使用可能不會像西部他比較集中在一個地方那可能你在同個台中縣同個村莊裡面他可能會有人講市縣有人講海陸有種種的說法那不過"},{"start":5307.646,"end":5332.716,"text":"我們為了要趕快政府為了趕快讓更多人學會客語他沒有因地制宜所以就以多數腔調的教學為主那藉這個部分很多鄉親在擔心說我的腔調會不會因為這樣而失去我取不來一個多年的時間那這個部分我想要說也請主委是不是可以給台東更多的資源能夠列個專案包括經費上的補助讓台東在教學客語的時候能夠保存少數的腔調"},{"start":5333.596,"end":5356.869,"text":"主委是不是同意能夠參議員報告 兩議廳交代目前我們在高雄埠的合作 包括高雄埠企業在整天學生會去寫每個議案 我們應該提供每個議案當然學校往往會說 不容易尋到學生圈 不容易尋到每個圈 但是學校只要有提出來 我們一天只辭問題是說"},{"start":5358.73,"end":5360.391,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":5378.044,"end":5404.654,"text":"那我其實對客家美食啦其實在台灣無論是閩客、圓心他都有各自的飲食文化那所以我客家文化本身大概了解到的就是粄條跟米苔目這是從小在吃的齁那台中剛有一些知名的名店像陸野的這個兩百里客家粄條還有我們觀光客來台中一定會吃的就是米苔目榕樹下的米苔目那不過在這次連假裡面齁客人少很多"},{"start":5405.314,"end":5411.398,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5433.872,"end":5436.353,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5453.001,"end":5479.127,"text":"主委剛好都有提到我想要問的就是說最近因為台北保雲市這個保雲市這個食安的風波啦延伸到現在齁那其實連遠在高雄美隆的這個都有受影響我們高雄美隆我家很有名叫林家板條每天大概換每天大概200斤的板條在翻因為這個事情之後整個銷售量下降有些地方甚至更慘齁那"},{"start":5481.588,"end":5496.526,"text":"主委我想這個也是會受到食安影響是不是那我想飲食的話因為食安被摧毀這個力道絕對不會亞於不會說可以這件事情那這邊本席要要求主委是不是可以在我們的"},{"start":5497.447,"end":5523.213,"text":"為了推廣客家美食可不可以在我們立法院舉辦一個客家版條米苔目的美食記者會然後經費由客委會來支持另外我們邀請各縣市的這些美食業者來社攤同時公開透明的展示我們的製作過程告訴所有的人說我們的製作過程非常的安全主委真的是不是同意幫我們的客家米苔目指要找出路"},{"start":5524.693,"end":5525.374,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":5547.837,"end":5560.864,"text":"我們最主要的目的是要告訴大家國人說客家美食在製作上絕對沒有問題那這個部分是不是可以請我們主委來協助那這是本期想要表達的謝謝我們黃建斌委員的執行好 謝謝"},{"start":5576.352,"end":5582.595,"text":"下一位我們請王美惠委員好謝謝美惠好謝謝前面主席我們請邱主委好請我們陸委會邱主委好謝謝主委早早主委在這幾天我感覺現在的黑股不會輪到少"},{"start":5606.169,"end":5607.83,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5628.909,"end":5631.31,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5652.165,"end":5652.766,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5677.534,"end":5678.654,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5704.468,"end":5706.549,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5723.376,"end":5731.802,"text":"主委,在我這裡跟你說的,你認為怎麼樣?你認為說你不要說你是什麼你站在主委的角度看,也能夠這樣一屆一屆跟他一起,跟他一起想要跟習近平這樣去記名,跟10多個客人,10多個客人,我告訴你啦。"},{"start":5749.226,"end":5750.008,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":5756.956,"end":5780.884,"text":"馬先生那事實很漏氣來主委你回答一下我剛才其實有說過因為馬政總統他是用他私人的新聞去當然啦所以說的是要去做文化交流的交流所以我們每年也有很多私人的不管個人還是團體都有在辦這些活動"},{"start":5783.225,"end":5788.667,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5813.001,"end":5813.442,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5821.929,"end":5823.47,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":5847.293,"end":5849.675,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":5877.597,"end":5886.259,"text":"所以我們有對他期待啦對他期待啦這樣做下去你對他期待是最好啦要不然這幾天做出來給台灣人很失望的啦期待是最好啦有人最漂亮嘛有期待嘛要不然做出對不起台灣的事情來來請坐來我們這裡基金會的董事長"},{"start":5908.336,"end":5909.877,"text":"來 基金會董事長董事長 老闆 董事長在這裡本身要跟你講一下說電話 我們的臉書裡面長久以來你們這樣做你們看你們的網站你們的做你們這樣一天發生幾本發生出刊有幾本來"},{"start":5937.898,"end":5943.342,"text":"你講的天罰,天罰都已經發到13期了,13期,特期就開始很多了,因為天期為了推廣很多,現在差不多期有3000了,等於說一年是非常稀奇的一個季節。"},{"start":5964.062,"end":5969.406,"text":"董事長,為什麼要跟你說這個,因為我的跟你說這個就是說,我們的農業報告,在1年有4期內,你們發生的有3千份,1千份是給公家機關,2千份是我們房地產的,但是我覺得豪業沒有出來,"},{"start":5986.025,"end":5988.226,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6015.253,"end":6017.115,"text":"喔!你的家長啦!我怎麼家長?因為客家的看法本身是比較受影響,你的本場是這樣的情況。你要在行事宜,你要拜託提防商跟特定署長,"},{"start":6032.435,"end":6033.755,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6060.879,"end":6065.062,"text":"結果你們看你們出的啦,整個人發展,你知不知道?董事長你知道嗎?不知道喔?這樣沒差你會做董事長,要關心嘛!24個、45個,那40個有夠久的,齁,董事長,我感覺以前不是這樣開的啦,"},{"start":6087.077,"end":6091.978,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6113.834,"end":6114.534,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6132.946,"end":6133.726,"text":"二、商務委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":6162.622,"end":6183.919,"text":"主委,在這裏面,本事要跟你探討的就是說,中央委員會,我告訴你,我們客客棧的小旅行的網站,跟你有蓋,蓋得很好,要不說買了,你蓋得買了,它是客家特色的專區裏面,你敢知道嗎?"},{"start":6186.601,"end":6193.187,"text":"今天當時,你知不知道,那個網站,我現在跟你一寸今天當時,你知不知道?你聽到沒有?不是,我是來你說,你有這個網站啦,本來跟你現在一寸是當時啦,今天1月1號啦"},{"start":6214.683,"end":6216.604,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6237.349,"end":6245.435,"text":"請同事說說因為本地若命暫短都好主委我告訴你你當年炒到目前為止我告訴你這個環境在1月到現在都還不夠現實的問題你來解釋因為萬一你那60倍有安的時間我告訴你主委大家都希望你們客家所有的事情做得好不是說大家來你這巡遊都說當年炒當年賣這樣是要怎麼做得好"},{"start":6267.179,"end":6269.24,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":6291.386,"end":6291.686,"text":"主委．"},{"start":6320.61,"end":6321.831,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":6342.575,"end":6352.538,"text":"感謝委員祈禱,明天明天要補分,因爲那些天氣有照片出現,總算是V4。主委,這樣來,本席在這裏說,到今天早上之後,在我剛才說的那天晚上,你去找找到現在目前到當時還沒有換來,以上。感謝委員。"},{"start":6366.291,"end":6367.132,"text":"主委不用緊張今天客委會"},{"start":6392.506,"end":6407.729,"text":"好 主委早安今天有幾件事情要跟您做一下政策的討論第一個我先從這個業務報告開始因為大家都知道我們現在這個由公共電視文化事業基金會來做這個客家電視台"},{"start":6408.59,"end":6425.652,"text":"那我們的客家公共傳播基金會來做講客廣播電台嘛那我們現在在講說要推廣客家文化的時候其實來講這個媒體的渠道還是有它的影響力還是蠻重要的所以我想要問一下第一個問題就是說我們有看到這個公共傳播基金會的業務報告"},{"start":6427.134,"end":6452.991,"text":"那當然就是講客廣播電臺的推動狀況但是我們沒有看到客家電視臺相關的推動狀況連你的業務報告裡面好像也沒有寫到多少東西這個原因是什麼?你要不要說明一下?老委員報告齁 客家電視臺過去的客家委員會若無計劃當中的表案經濟根據推出供電的條例去搞本供充電視臺盤利"},{"start":6454.292,"end":6456.814,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6472.669,"end":6478.315,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":6491.468,"end":6514.939,"text":"公共媒體的託律心應對其內容、某些觀察及某些自批。所以在此情況之下,在整體公共天使團表現的一部分,除非非要偏須沒有執照、觀察到內容,因此不可以聯誼。因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因此因"},{"start":6516.499,"end":6540.918,"text":"好所以基本上這個業務還是交給公共電視台負責嘛那你們講說基於公共性就不多做干涉這我越理解但我要問一下就是我們是改捐助啦捐助我知道等一下我們會討論這個問題因為你講這個公共電視文化基金會客家電視台也有一個資義委員會嘛也就是說雖然它有一定的公共性但相對來講我們從推動客家文化的角度來講你還是要有一定的角色嘛"},{"start":6541.178,"end":6544.321,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6561.015,"end":6562.936,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6577.426,"end":6595.531,"text":"其次是官方當然主管客家事務對所有客家事務都關心但是人外方面竟然遵從公共傳播媒體的立場除非有出現衝突的社運事件請勿表達意見檢討對其的觀察不過像說有衝突的政策本是在地只不過是指揮及聽聽不去觀察及要求"},{"start":6607.489,"end":6622.388,"text":"好 這個算回答得很清楚那我們就針對這個捐助這件事情我們來做一下討論這個主委應該可以看到螢幕上面寫得非常清楚這個我們這個歷年來都是以捐助的方式來處理那近年來你可以看到預算有逐步增加"},{"start":6623.369,"end":6642.766,"text":"這對客家文化保存然後推動客家語言來講這當然是件好事但是第一個是執行率好像有一定的落差這一部分要請客委會要加強檢討那第二部分就是我剛剛講你既然已經在這個捐助的過程中你一直以來都等於是出資的單位那剛剛你的回答我現在算可以接受"},{"start":6643.586,"end":6669.48,"text":"官方如果沒有代表然後要尊重公共電視的主體性這個本席可以接受但是我要提一下這個根據我們這個預算中心的一些資料你可以看到我們的這個叫做自播節目我們的比例好像自製的比例好像不夠高因為我們政府每天花了很多的錢我們是希望說相對來講可以鼓勵創新然後產出很多跟客家相關的自製性的節目但是我們在客家電視台裡面自製的比例好像沒有"},{"start":6670.1,"end":6671.781,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":6688.371,"end":6690.073,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6710.552,"end":6727.675,"text":"二、民意補助品所分配的金費較大：無法製造出有納稅層的節目：三、國庫財政委員會負責負責負責負責負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負負"},{"start":6739.422,"end":6766.567,"text":"因為時間有限這個就給你看一下參考比例上來講以公視的主評來講他大概都有4成左右的製播率客家台大概是22%原民台大概是23%到24%照理來講以創作的量能來講當然我們講族群的現實來講原民的數量是相對少的所以他的製播率比較沒有那麼高這我們還覺得心有可原但你在客家的人口的比例上來講其實我本期是認為是潛力其實是很夠的"},{"start":6767.327,"end":6789.645,"text":"所以我們是希望既然提撥的預算的比例是上升的那相對來講這制播率也是要稍微要求當然你講我平均分配資源然後讓這個節目內容很精彩這個方向本席是可以理解但是我覺得你還是要逐步的要求讓它慢慢的往上走嘛好歹要看到一個上升趨勢線才能夠就譬如說我們的政府投入是鼓勵這個客家族群來創作等等裡面有更好的成績"},{"start":6790.165,"end":6791.305,"text":"你講的70%是今年會有70%的成績嗎?"},{"start":6818.897,"end":6846.497,"text":"沒關係你可以說明一下補充說明沒有關係目前在112年的統計就有達到70%以上跟委員報告了那落差為什麼會這麼大你們做了什麼政策的調整之前的計算時數的部分新聞節目的部分沒有記錄所以新聞記錄之後知識率就提高很多是不是好沒關係這我們就一樣來做逐年的檢討我們是希望創新的比例因為新聞相對來講製作門檻是比較低的"},{"start":6848.038,"end":6849.499,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6871.192,"end":6900.391,"text":"我們的這個自播自製率沒有那麼高是因為我要把量能維持在做新創的節目但新創的比例其實也沒有很高這兩件事情我們都希望隨著你預算的投入可以逐年來上升這至少這個方向來講我想主委應該不會反對這樣努力的方向吧沒有反對但是要讓委員報告像今年公衆天使從去年那天開始經常合作推出兩個客家天使團由在很多黑潮天空下的"},{"start":6903.401,"end":6911.445,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6925.291,"end":6927.492,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":6953.357,"end":6976.58,"text":"再來最後一個小問題就是我們現在都講我們現在都講說ESG是很重要的一個概念對不對那這個112年的全國客家日你們有頒發多元文化企業的社會責任就客語友善企業獎用鼓勵的方式這一點是不錯的那這個遠東百貨全家便利商店跟中華郵政因為有多做客語服務所以就鼓勵他這是好事那當然這個東西現在"},{"start":6978.479,"end":6979.499,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":6997.886,"end":6999.448,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7014.722,"end":7015.422,"text":"從你的角度困難不大"},{"start":7043.013,"end":7044.155,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7062.714,"end":7065.955,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":7081.605,"end":7082.245,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":7107.757,"end":7136.886,"text":"請主委,不不,客委會主委感謝總委員按關心罷了答案難是請你阿我想請問主委我們的客家語言發展法其實到現在願版還沒出來那有沒有在這個會期裡面我們會不會希望說願版可以出來"},{"start":7138.206,"end":7141.93,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":7150.815,"end":7170.382,"text":"不同的利益團體、利害管理人員及其相關的普遍．雖然生殖材行政院有政府委員收買的審查費已經通過．稍後會有新的意見提出來．提出來的意見當中有原因為．當法律委員會針對客家移行的發展．有提出的規定時．是否會影響到．"},{"start":7177.665,"end":7178.507,"text":"其他出權議員的評判．"},{"start":7188.976,"end":7213.829,"text":"本土的規格語言提提到面臨發展商的危機．加上僅僅UNESCO的標準,全部是邊維語言．但是客家法的邊維有比其他語言．當然比演出名義的更好．比合法都差很多．從初期總書記所調查的．在送信發動中規格名義．合法為主要語言有3項左右．"},{"start":7216.23,"end":7240.166,"text":"二、客家委員會主委委員只有1.5至1.7 非常大所以你不是說要用鐵絲的方式但是你整天都欺負其他人你還要怎麼判理兩個部分大概有很多的意見但是希望最近有法文本研究中央就請客家委員會重新整理跟人說推記譜的先有章求好有推記譜的"},{"start":7247.091,"end":7248.992,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":7265.442,"end":7267.964,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7292.924,"end":7294.566,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7309.025,"end":7323.835,"text":"主委現在啊齁人口跟語言的資料調查齁其實啊客家語言的部分啊應該是我們客委會來主政的吧對不對沒有錯啦齁但啦齁"},{"start":7325.396,"end":7345.491,"text":"主計總處的人口普查雖然有語言這個問題不過他們的題目就是說兒時最早學會的語言跟現在主要使用的語言跟現在次要使用的語言父親最常使用的語言母親最常使用的語言"},{"start":7346.428,"end":7347.249,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":7364.292,"end":7369.895,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7391.287,"end":7394.308,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7411.419,"end":7435.65,"text":"我覺得啦主委你說的沒有錯啦他當然是普及的一個調查不過我覺得我們也可以跟主席總書稍微如果是你是客家莊的調查是不是可以稍微這個題目改一下也可以讓我們對客家委員會發展對我們未來這個客家政策有一些幫助嘛我覺得是這樣因為"},{"start":7436.71,"end":7440.093,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":7461.972,"end":7467.895,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7487.625,"end":7488.825,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7506.704,"end":7515.591,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7535.385,"end":7539.606,"text":"暫時有用途,因為有邀請專業的學生來助省電廠增生VMV,用博物館的專業,所以聽說希望建立合計的台灣客家博物館。"},{"start":7554.551,"end":7555.371,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7583.338,"end":7584.039,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":7605.095,"end":7606.476,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":7626.31,"end":7650.74,"text":"讓我們客家人也好或國外的全世界東南亞很多的客家人其實要讓他們可以來台灣來體驗體驗我們什麼很多啊結婚是什麼客家的結婚的這個過程然後呢有拜拜或什麼的不是讓我們傳統的感覺一客家就是南管北管欸我覺得這個我們是不是客家人"},{"start":7652.801,"end":7655.343,"text":"兩點,目前在整隊議同的部分有,委員會經營的時候,非常大家參考,將來對於申請的部分,聽驗的部分,會設計,過去有362個?"},{"start":7670.316,"end":7671.819,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7686.482,"end":7687.482,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":7710.527,"end":7712.829,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7739.068,"end":7760.584,"text":"新的體驗新的我覺得要啦做入新的東西讓年輕人想要去啦我覺得這個比較重要啦我如果帶我的小孩子去以前就是這樣啦對不對我們以前就是這樣子做的不用教他讓他體驗我覺得這個比較重要好不好"},{"start":7761.405,"end":7763.066,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":7779.759,"end":7781.681,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7798.397,"end":7800.959,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7816.793,"end":7818.474,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":7846.702,"end":7851.084,"text":"謝謝我們感謝張宏祿委員、藍家黃捷委員主委來"},{"start":7873.51,"end":7899.084,"text":"好 主委好既然都來了就問一下先問兩題啦第一個是馬席二會因為現在有傳出說馬席二會有可能會改到4月10號嘛那其實剛剛陸委會主委也有提到說你認為這個是一個如果是文教個人的交流沒有問題那我想問的就是說如果這個馬席二會真的成會了這樣還算是個人的文教交流嗎我們陸委會不用有態度嗎"},{"start":7900.264,"end":7919.551,"text":"基本上我們第一個當然持續關注有沒有這樣的一個行程第二個他在過程中到底是怎麼樣的一個發言因為從剛剛我也有提到了他這次去雖然是定調是私人這樣的一個行程不過還是有維安的維護"},{"start":7922.452,"end":7924.153,"text":"二、馬前總統享受國家現任總統禮遇金及各項經費,維護中華民國基本主權及尊嚴。"},{"start":7936.55,"end":7939.432,"text":"沒錯主委講到一個重點他此行都還是有維安的狀態下而且不要忘記過去這8年馬英九領了我們國家多少錢我幫他算過了至少7500萬這是他個人如果交上稅務還有其他的醫療需求超過1億元"},{"start":7954.179,"end":7970.437,"text":"他領著這樣的待遇卻發言說有損國格我認為這個是我們應該要全體撻伐啦然後陸委會也應該要給予一個態度如果此行他真的有發表任何有損國格的言論請陸委會第一個站出來予以譴責"},{"start":7972.199,"end":7996.639,"text":"好那再來另外一件事情喔昨天最近有傳出說我國在澳門呢有一個呃國父紀念館那個是我屬於我國的資產那價值也是有一億多那是在澳門的呃領土上我們唯一一個可以展示我國國旗的地方但聽說現在中共基於這個國父紀念館然後說希望要強制我方來出售請問有這件事情嗎"},{"start":7998.48,"end":8019.017,"text":"應該這個是後面各位怎麼發展不曉得不過目前因為他們在重新對於這個建築物到底算不算是屬於他們要都市規劃裡面的古蹟的部分有在做判斷的認定那我們初步雖然是判斷師但是我們也有提出一些我們的意見跟看法"},{"start":8019.997,"end":8044.77,"text":"如果被認定的時候當然就會受到比較多的管制目前我們都持續的在注意後面的變化這件事情務必請陸委會要全程關注不希望說我方的資產卻用這種方式因為這種方式其實中共也不是第一次了它好像不是只有針對我們而是整個澳門應該是澳門特區政府的自己的規劃"},{"start":8045.931,"end":8064.003,"text":"所以希望這件事情我們還是要據理力爭啦不要說變成說最後說用他們的方式列為文化資產結果卻要強迫我方來出手好那這兩件事情務必請陸委會持續關注謝謝好再來我們請客人會主委客人會主委方便齁好不好意思喔讓我攜帶一下感謝Vian"},{"start":8075.575,"end":8078.317,"text":"客家基本法在2018年修正之後現在也明定說客語就是我國的國家語言"},{"start":8095.708,"end":8096.249,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":8110.831,"end":8137.432,"text":"客家基本法之上的最後一塊的非常重要的就是它的制定的客家語言發展法到現在好像都院版都還沒有正式的提出來那我看過去的在過去的討論其實在上一屆就有這樣的討論那其實最後也有五個立委有送出版本可是我們院版到現在好像都沒有給予一個新的進度不知道說我們這一屆有沒有機會看到院版送進來呢"},{"start":8138.683,"end":8143.007,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8162.423,"end":8166.812,"text":"可以幫我暫停嗎?是要用這個對不對?"},{"start":8173.88,"end":8179.722,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8194.468,"end":8195.188,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議"},{"start":8213.78,"end":8214.841,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8235.35,"end":8238.392,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8256.62,"end":8260.924,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8278.459,"end":8280.86,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8305.205,"end":8308.906,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8326.271,"end":8347.553,"text":"好 謝謝主委我覺得這是大家共同的期待啦我也希望說趕快把這個細部協調好如果真的可以我們就這個會期送進來然後我們就趕快來拍攝我們是一定支持的啦因為其實我看到我也是看了一下過去討論的狀況就是有提到說分階段要推動這個通行譽的期間可能還沒有辦法訂定"},{"start":8348.274,"end":8351.796,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8372.517,"end":8396.917,"text":"好那我再問兩個一個是就是客語輸入法我們什麼時候可以開放手機版因為我知道說我們現在已經完成了電腦版的研發然後也已經上路了那不知道手機版什麼時候那最後一個是就是我們現在客語配音源的薪資的待遇低於華語這個也是之前有委員質詢過的我想知道現在有沒有改善了以上兩個問題"},{"start":8397.938,"end":8401.601,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":8418.333,"end":8423.195,"text":"客家委員會不屬於法院委員會：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8441.4,"end":8443.802,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8462.034,"end":8463.575,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":8492.154,"end":8494.456,"text":"二、由客家委員會封信客家委員會封信客家委員會封信客家委員會封信客家委員會封信"},{"start":8519.03,"end":8533.083,"text":"好 謝謝主委我看得出你的決心跟毅力啦希望說你的信可以真的送到這些軟體的手上然後之後我們手機也可以順利使用希望不會像卡夫卡那個K永遠到不了城堡"},{"start":8534.224,"end":8555.679,"text":"好 希望主委可以一起加油那就是我希望說這個語言的保存它其實也是一個轉型正義啦從1988的還我母語運動到現在我認為這個轉型正義勢必應該要到了一個有成果的時候那希望主委就在你們的努力之下可以讓民眾也可以感受到客語就在我們的生活他說你也復原了轉型正義是的好 謝謝主委 謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":8563.117,"end":8566.939,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8587.005,"end":8592.117,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8597.235,"end":8607.518,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8620.319,"end":8630.652,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案。"},{"start":8642.468,"end":8651.339,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":8658.167,"end":8662.248,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8673.752,"end":8683.455,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8694.6,"end":8699.683,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8709.671,"end":8722.002,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算"},{"start":8738.295,"end":8757.019,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結案及所屬預算凍結"},{"start":8762.77,"end":8786.236,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8792.398,"end":8798.703,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":8891.681,"end":8911.069,"text":"我們繼續為請張志倫委員發言主席好各位官員各位委員大家早安大家好我們有請主委來我們請主委客委主委現在有時候聽到說大陸主委"},{"start":8916.485,"end":8938.254,"text":"感謝總委員主委早安安之世安之世好謝謝主委主委第一件事想要先請教你這個花蓮發生大地震在4月3號花蓮發生25年來僅次於921的大地震那相信尤其在去年這個2022年花蓮也發生了918的地震相信你也記憶猶新"},{"start":8939.454,"end":8941.856,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":8956.25,"end":8984.626,"text":"客家的會館進行客家的鄉親建物以及古物一些這個古蹟的災情的統計尤其您知道說現在這次花蓮有一個也是我們的客家會館最近也是因為要辦活動因為辦活動後續因為大地震的關係而暫停了想要先請教主委有關於我們所有客家會館的災情還是否有人員傷亡是我們所補助的各項客家"},{"start":8985.606,"end":8989.929,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":9004.52,"end":9032.089,"text":"當然我們透過我們自己的諮詢委員社團各方面去了解一下鄉親有沒有碰到特別需要協助的目前我們還沒有得到這個回報我想地商政府、中央政府相關的跟救災有關的單位都運作起來非常有效率那需要我們的部分的時候我們一定會站出來那我們主動了解結果目前還沒有提出這個要求"},{"start":9032.824,"end":9057.444,"text":"好 謝謝主委因為就本席了解臺灣有非常多的客家會館像新竹有一個非常知名的叫義民廟裡面應該有收藏一些這個歷史的古蹟那也是要拜託主委這邊希望就是說趕快去了解跟統計是不是地方這邊有需要去做一些一些建物的損毀的部分因為就我得知就像我們立法院這邊也會有一些瓷磚剛剛康源這邊有一些瓷磚剝落"},{"start":9060.486,"end":9062.207,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9082.283,"end":9098.437,"text":"本市場客家委員會的部分一年差不多有7億多8億的金費,從客家委員會相關的部署項目,例如客家委員會本省當年會分批到的預算。當中在貼有限來說,文化資產及有順廢,"},{"start":9102.981,"end":9104.282,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9120.991,"end":9125.674,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":9148.729,"end":9174.647,"text":"二、新設管轄應延遲雙模再個疏離,除非有特別的需求。因為客家新設的管轄以後,即使沒能力創起肥膚,也沒能力變織營業,目前全國各地的客家管轄應延遲延遲長途,先停一段時間來管轄一下,還會不會需求。所以目前暢時對於新管轄的部分,應按照顧慮提出來。"},{"start":9179.619,"end":9202.266,"text":"好 謝謝主委那很開心聽到主委講到這是這個4月3號大地震我們所有的客家的會館客家過去歷史文物受到災害的損失聽主委剛剛報告的分享起來是比較稍微少一點的那這個非常的慶幸那可是我這邊也要跟主委提說目前為止我們現在只看到行政院只提出了3億的這個贈災款"},{"start":9204.847,"end":9206.508,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9220.678,"end":9232.909,"text":"客家的部分因為目前沒有接觸到國體有案用的CQ提出來,所以以醫生來說,即使他提出動作,不然當然要向行政院報告,才用手法翻譯去處理。"},{"start":9240.993,"end":9261.622,"text":"所以對於整體因為其他部份所講的分別內有極度的損失是有極度的減費,因為客家委員會無所分料的在另一部份委員會事前但是除了另一部份委員會來講,目前對於客家提起才提同以後有沒有任何事求,目前看起來沒有任何太多問題"},{"start":9263.985,"end":9285.831,"text":"好謝謝主委我的時間剩不多可是我要跟主委拜託因為今天我今天是來跟您質詢因為我知道禮拜四有我們的行政院會所以我拜託這個主委你跟我們的行政院的院長來拜託來提出4月3號大地震的災害特別條例來爭取預算因為我雖然說這個"},{"start":9288.092,"end":9302.161,"text":"您所屬的部會這個預算的部分應該是夠使用來修復這些東西可是很多的部會我相信而且很多像我在我的選區在新北中和很多的民宅都有毀損不管是被貼紅單還是貼黃單的情況"},{"start":9304.342,"end":9307.763,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9327.23,"end":9352.304,"text":"因為各部份有專屆附近的範圍：兩岸某方便都延避上正式提出：但是我會死哈勞秘書長報告：說委員會案有關刑：天明延避或甚從來可能提出：立法院：我會向秘書長做一張報告：因為若不合委員會所管的範圍內：從某方便都延避正式提出："},{"start":9354.298,"end":9355.299,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":9381.151,"end":9384.255,"text":"本席請行政院主計總處公務預算處李專委"},{"start":9402.029,"end":9430.479,"text":"委員好李專委本席想請教您就我們預算法現行的第84條它有一個但書就是說我們這個為因應情勢緊急需要得先支付其一部請問先支付其一部是可以支付30%、50%還是80%有沒有規定這部分並沒有特別的規定好那再請問先支付其一部有沒有規定它的用途"},{"start":9431.806,"end":9434.449,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9448.55,"end":9477.111,"text":"用途就是要用在特別預算編列的內容比如說經濟或是重大災害但是重大災害或是像我們之前這個新冠疫情他可能如果需要用的話他沒有講什麼內容但是他只要是跟疫情有關的都可以就是看這個特別預算編列好是什麼內容對但是他先支付一部但他並沒有講要用在什麼內容"},{"start":9479.482,"end":9481.185,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案計6案。"},{"start":9496.412,"end":9522.231,"text":"目前我們的現行的預算裡面就有針對那個災害的部分有一筆的預算對所以我說要事先編列嗎您認同嗎不能夠等到有災害才開始找錢嗎他事先編列嗎對我們總預算就有編列災準金對好所以這個臺灣呢有颱風有地震我想住在臺灣這個島上的人都了解"},{"start":9522.871,"end":9528.156,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案"},{"start":9540.148,"end":9557.179,"text":"對那所以呢一個有為的政府應該要這樣編列但是如果有災害才開始找錢可以先編列不編列可以先完成立法程序不完成立法程序這個就是無能的政府愚蠢的政府"},{"start":9557.739,"end":9562.022,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":9585.261,"end":9587.463,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":9611.483,"end":9631.312,"text":"執政的政府能夠堅守財政紀律．堅守憲政體制不要動不動就要去用特別預算這是本席在這裡特別聲明的謝謝李專委請你回座接著本席想請楊主委我們客委會楊主委千恩楊主委請問"},{"start":9639.952,"end":9657.919,"text":"本席在這裡看到我們業務報告第13頁有提到客委會持續透過客家歌曲以及音樂來打破文化的藩籬同時也希望能夠促進客家音樂和語言文化的推廣"},{"start":9662.421,"end":9677.031,"text":"業務報告13頁提到為了推廣客家歌曲來推廣客家文化安排了客家歌謠的交流觀摩賽總共有555隊以及1897人參與主委請問能推廣的客家人數有多少?"},{"start":9688.851,"end":9690.051,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":9711.277,"end":9713.738,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9735.009,"end":9739.312,"text":"摸版權,版權沒有,中央沒幫我們買,提奉會寵善購寵過饒,摸賣版權,動作摸盤發蟲。第8屆就立法院的時節,國民黨時期,賣動作版權,所以鄉親總委是說,兩半年,動作新的過饒、新的善購,"},{"start":9764.508,"end":9768.873,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9779.065,"end":9796.536,"text":"若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告：若非因報告�"},{"start":9807.043,"end":9809.104,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":9825.714,"end":9828.616,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":9856.836,"end":9859.599,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":9870.151,"end":9872.313,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9893.672,"end":9897.575,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案。"},{"start":9918.228,"end":9919.769,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9939.019,"end":9939.56,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":9955.999,"end":9958.982,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":9976.039,"end":9977.02,"text":"提出書面報告：提出書面報告：提出書面報告：提出書面報告："},{"start":9996.771,"end":10020.905,"text":"對應共合會合約興起。所以希望能不能看怎麼樣我們客委會能夠加強精進讓孩子家長對客家文化的認同度還有語言聲望對對對這個部分我們也有提案出來只是今天沒有處理臨時提案也希望在下下個會期開議前我們客會可以提出書面報告"},{"start":10021.826,"end":10026.874,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":10035.13,"end":10036.83,"text":"主席我們請陸委會邱主委"},{"start":10068.588,"end":10081.001,"text":"主委好我想請教你從今年2月開始有關觀光署停止組團赴大陸然後也發生了金門撞船的事件以及陸的船艦飛機繞台還有無人機侵入金門"},{"start":10084.645,"end":10096.531,"text":"各種事端接連不斷的發生所以兩岸的關係也越來越緊張敵意螺旋不斷的上升如果以10分作為評分標準的話請問主委你認為現在兩岸關係的緊張程度是幾分"},{"start":10101.739,"end":10114.663,"text":"基本上沒有什麼太大的變化假設我們用你剛剛講10分嘛假設我們過去這2016年到現在大概都在5分到6分之間啦最近可能大概可能是6.1、6.2"},{"start":10116.844,"end":10142.864,"text":"主要原因是金門的這個賺錢事件其實它就是一個偶發的意外事件而已過去這種事情的處理基本上本來他們就有很多的處理的這個經驗跟模式不過到現在都還沒解決嘛對對對那主要原因當然是因為剛好碰到我們選後那520之前大概委員可以理解對岸大概可能可能會在520之後所以我想主委從您剛剛的回答"},{"start":10144.525,"end":10148.968,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10167.601,"end":10169.162,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10189.478,"end":10190.538,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":10206.124,"end":10207.725,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10228.723,"end":10253.303,"text":"所以我想這個部分可能也不要再有意識形態的那種產生希望就是能夠把這個定調就是兩岸的溝通跟交流恐怕不是溝通吧他就是一個文化的交流我想對話相對重要可能是大家不要給他太多的對我也覺得不要有政治藝術不要給他太多的正度的期待因為馬總統他是用私人身份去"},{"start":10253.763,"end":10255.043,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":10284.235,"end":10299.486,"text":"主委好請問一下主委就我們客委會為了結合衛福部長照10年的計畫2.0政策有70個客家文化重點發展區域還有21個非客家文化重點發展區域都有設置博工照護站"},{"start":10300.286,"end":10315.388,"text":"所以到112年8月底已經合訂了12個縣市的博工照護站總共有473個請問博工照護站在這次的0403的大地震中有沒有發揮功效關心我們客家的這個長者"},{"start":10317.19,"end":10342.287,"text":"因為博工照護站其實就是照護據點那我們這一次地震之後有透過我們所接觸到的社團各種管道都有去問大家有沒有什麼需要協助什麼需要幫忙的目前我們沒有接到這樣的一個要求那另外的博工照護站其實在各縣市是有它的衛福部門直接在做管理"},{"start":10343.047,"end":10345.948,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":10360.753,"end":10361.975,"text":"主委,去年8月11日至10月15日舉辦2023年世界客家博覽會。"},{"start":10376.952,"end":10388.255,"text":"客家委員會原來預估可以吸引600萬人次其中觀光客大概有20萬人次會創造200億的經濟效益舉辦過後陳建仁院長在10月19號的院會有說參觀人數已經超過1100萬人次經濟效益是200億元不過我根據你們剛剛的報告就是你們報告提到的還有桃園市的我們的客"},{"start":10404.238,"end":10416.569,"text":"客家局也特別提到經濟效益已經達到385億元請問一下到底經濟效益是多少?老委員報告,其實這個營業段期內還沒有算到完整後來經濟"},{"start":10419.652,"end":10424.375,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":10436.903,"end":10439.644,"text":"這次中央政府客委會與桃園市政府客家局所舉辦的客博會當初花17億元"},{"start":10461.352,"end":10462.354,"text":"15億是客家15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億15億"},{"start":10474.082,"end":10489.53,"text":"所以總共是15億元所以可以創造385億元的這個經濟效益所以我覺得是不是每個一段時間就應該要舉辦一次以活絡經濟還有宣表客家文化我們在內部有客家委員會對於100幾十個客家委員會的政體有做檢討要對於將來判的可能性都有偵測的評估目前已經非常好在"},{"start":10499.436,"end":10504.262,"text":"國家本人的意見在整理當中。 整理到一定程度會抽出不同的項目。 會作為進一步期待更詳細的資料。 太總統的肯定的時間會幫我們拍照。"},{"start":10514.375,"end":10515.935,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10536.161,"end":10562.579,"text":"OK好那我們期待我們客委會繼續來辦理喔那另外再想請教一下剛剛主委有特別提到嗎你們會在這個這個禮拜吧會邀請田馥甄是一些相關的我們的客家歌手舉辦一個H3WITHUP的售票的演唱會喔這個是針對我們客家語言的部分希望來做一個提升所辦理的一個客家的一個相關的演唱會啊請問這一場演唱會的預算是多少"},{"start":10563.499,"end":10566.36,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":10587.89,"end":10588.39,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":10604.881,"end":10606.262,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10626.195,"end":10639.137,"text":"事實上只有3000多人能夠參加而且只有35%是客語所以希望說我們既然要提升客家語言的話希望也能夠有這樣的一個方式讓更多的人來參與更了解客語"},{"start":10642.097,"end":10646.14,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":10662.409,"end":10664.911,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10688.183,"end":10695.126,"text":"好謝謝我們徐宇辰委員的發言謝謝那我們下一位有請李博義委員好謝謝謝謝我們請客委會楊主委"},{"start":10717.008,"end":10719.589,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":10744.278,"end":10745.76,"text":"有非常大量的我們的客家鄉親而且"},{"start":10757.267,"end":10781.864,"text":"美濃很厲害的一點產物是什麼是校長跟老師在美濃碰到校長跟老師的紀律還有博士這非常的多這對於整個教育對整個家庭教育來講這是非常非常厲害的一個特色那所以我們就會檢討為什麼我們去到美濃"},{"start":10784.226,"end":10810.691,"text":"那我們就會檢討說這一些家庭的教育是怎麼樣養成的那怎麼會有這些過程那怎麼會產生那麼多的老師博士校長這麼多的這些人才那所以客家的這些文化我們真的是值得客委會來深深的來強力的來推廣不只語言不只場館還有他的文化這個是我們先在這邊表達對於預算還有對於這些"},{"start":10814.859,"end":10819.296,"text":"剛剛所報告的所有的政策內容的這些推動我們都表達支持"},{"start":10820.712,"end":10847.419,"text":"但是對於場館在我們在開始重視客家文化這20年來其實我們客委會也不斷的在補助這些我們地方的這些客家文化設施那我以高雄為例好了高雄市的這個客家文物展館客家文物館現在目前為止他已經成立了已經有16 欸對不起"},{"start":10848.018,"end":10865.305,"text":"已經成立的已經有13年那到目前為止到去年為止他每年的這個訪客的人數是大概在19萬3000左右那我盤整一下全國包含做得最好的可能"},{"start":10866.345,"end":10877.816,"text":"感覺訪問人數最多的臺東縣這邊可能有到80幾萬但是我們如果說做的最整個場館幾乎沒有人參訪一年只有不到300個人參訪的也有"},{"start":10880.049,"end":10897.08,"text":"那針對這個場館的內容這個場館的人數那客戶會有沒有什麼相關要進行這些改善或者是這些輔導的措施或者是有什麼想法跟地方政府來做這些檢討跟聯絡?先立委員報告那些場館分兩類一類那個三期生、餐廳營、室外去使用的所以這種地方他強調不要說我要去遊學、去看醫藥、去讀那個三期本身"},{"start":10910.65,"end":10919.718,"text":"採取客家文化演習、演習費、各種的演套、安容的素材﹐所謂叫做無窮挑、永遠隱私﹐比如說你家人在海峽沒有在客家文化館洗洗澡﹐但是省費凍結、客家演習費的素材﹐另外一種情況﹐另外一種情況就是說﹐比如說其實客家文化館﹐是由英國的法律作用﹐英國的核導演來看﹐"},{"start":10936.433,"end":10956.691,"text":"確實目前由於部分的審計不太好,那審計不太好就先分成兩大部分。例如說提防政府7個,他做的付出的年量有多少?他做的便宜是多少?他做的便宜是多少?檢証都在判罰通嗎?那沒有年齡的時間,你要年出的稅,另外一個是location。"},{"start":10958.172,"end":10966.015,"text":"從高雄市北投亞廣東的V社同盟路 因為那片黑瘦人存在的地方 離社區遠一點點沒有老年人的地方 所以人家在台北市外面比較瘦最近有提出10個改善的方案 現在都在討論當中希望那些時刻有更多動態的共用和靜態的展示"},{"start":10981.38,"end":10985.441,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11009.445,"end":11035.732,"text":"主委,全世界都在觀察我應該說全台灣全世界在觀察美日高峰會全台灣在觀察這個馬席會是不是有可能會在同一天但是"},{"start":11036.735,"end":11048.102,"text":"同樣的問題去年馬英九先生前總統拜訪中國的時候請問那個時候在美國是誰在拜訪美國我想基本上是這樣我這樣子表達好了主委不要為難你抱歉這其實都是在我們的觀察都是在做一個算是"},{"start":11063.806,"end":11065.809,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":11080.21,"end":11106.904,"text":"現在也在中國訪問而且充滿感情這個是做一個對比組給全世界的人看所以很有可能陸委會目前也都在掌握相關的情資看馬英九先生在中國方面在做什麼但有一點我幫主委這邊做一個比較詳細的一些說明如果是文化交流不用報陸委會或者是報陸委會說我要過去就可以了"},{"start":11107.697,"end":11112.852,"text":"如果是監副要溝通什麼的責任是不是要先跟盧委會這邊做一個說明?"},{"start":11113.594,"end":11137.946,"text":"基本上一定身份的人他在退職後的一定年限都要申報但是有沒有溝通的這個功能我想我不曉得所謂溝通什麼因為基本上只要涉及到公權力的事項基本上都只有只能由政府或政府委託的人來做所以私人身份是沒有辦法的"},{"start":11138.427,"end":11152.868,"text":"對,所以他是還是私人身份啦但是我也在要必須要肯定我們高雄市橋頭區的某一些遊客齁我在這邊非常肯定我們這些遊客看到馬英九他當他自稱馬先生的時候他大喊馬總統好"},{"start":11154.31,"end":11181.168,"text":"我們在新聞上看到這一幕都對於我們這個高雄市橋頭區的這位先生表達肯定在可能馬英九先生自己沒有講出來的話那他大聲的喊出馬總統不要壞了馬英九的計畫謝謝主委你請回謝謝最後既然那個行政院主計總處公務預算處的李莊委來了那我也請教你一個問題好了來李莊委"},{"start":11189.347,"end":11215.574,"text":"委員好我經歷過高雄市的氣爆那高雄市氣爆發生的時候行政院說了不編列特別預算給高雄市那所以當下湧入了超過45億的善款來協助高雄市希望可以對這些災後的這些重建趕快來復甦高雄市當時的第一預備金"},{"start":11217.387,"end":11244.245,"text":"也沒有特別預算第一預備金災準金的準備是遠遠低於45億的沒有人知道會發生什麼變故所以我講快一點如果預算法83條、84條修正之後把84條的緊急凍資的這些內容拿掉的話請問萬一這些天災發生在7月以後行政院的第一預備金已經快沒有了請問這個怎麼樣凍資"},{"start":11248.106,"end":11261.261,"text":"是不是沒有辦法凍值這些預算目前我們是用災準金來協助已經沒有災準金了重大事故也會如果是地方的話也會有特別統籌款的部分來協助"},{"start":11262.216,"end":11278.512,"text":"所以如果84條這個拿掉先送到立法院來是要經過立法院審議才可以編列或凍結這些預算的話這些執行上還會有什麼困難目前我們的特別預算都會先送特別條例到立法院來"},{"start":11279.957,"end":11281.958,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11303.892,"end":11321.224,"text":"如果軍購或者是這些重大案件如果先送到立法院來會增加相關的一些難度所以對於83條、84條的修法還有這些重大災害、重大危難、緊急動之的相關的這些內容的話還是要做一些比較完整的論述謝謝好 謝謝我們李博裕委員執行那下一位我們請高金素美、張維執行謝謝"},{"start":11337.361,"end":11337.863,"text":"有請楊主委"},{"start":11343.443,"end":11371.276,"text":"楊主委好你在這邊全程用母語在答詢我給你非常大的肯定可是在這邊還是要有一個建議就是說不管是閩南或原名或是客語的長官或我們立法委員在這邊用母語質詢的時候我也同樣的希望我們立法院的這個轉播系統能夠在第一個時間能夠呈現中文字幕不僅僅是在院會質詢的時候也希望在我們委員會質詢的時候能夠有"},{"start":11372.617,"end":11375.141,"text":"主委,您的看法是什麼?因為經濟、國家、營業、發展、財、立法、實法、行政各自部門都應該"},{"start":11384.042,"end":11384.963,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11407.363,"end":11408.203,"text":"客家委員會的陳董事長"},{"start":11438.904,"end":11457.555,"text":"謝謝主委董事長 這個客船會成立已經4年了 客船會現在有沒有完善的培育客與傳播人才的制度另外在所謂的人事的晉升或人員的升遷 有沒有一個明確而且透明的制度可以依循報告委員"},{"start":11460.174,"end":11465.196,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":11482.585,"end":11483.907,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":11497.827,"end":11500.168,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11528.035,"end":11529.256,"text":"大家都同意嗎?"},{"start":11529.256,"end":11536.281,"text":"因為你要跟客家委員會有當中的討論是有跟員工討論?"},{"start":11536.281,"end":11550.812,"text":"有討論就是你們內部裡面的 因為我知道現在我們的各傳會只有兩個嘛第一個是你們廣播嘛 第二個是網路嘛那對於這個在公共電視裡面的這些人的晉升也是您最後決策嗎?"},{"start":11551.869,"end":11553.29,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11568.958,"end":11569.419,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11590.996,"end":11592.297,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11614.077,"end":11615.659,"text":"二、客船會經營．電台及網絡媒體．客船會經營．電台及網絡媒體．"},{"start":11633.394,"end":11634.915,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":11649.565,"end":11650.486,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":11665.623,"end":11667.865,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11688.381,"end":11692.306,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11707.823,"end":11714.584,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11737.605,"end":11744.069,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11762.922,"end":11765.324,"text":"二、客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":11785.782,"end":11808.549,"text":"好 因為今天時間有限請總經理是不是能夠提供一些比較這個更清楚的一些資料請問你們花多少預算在這上面我們這個預算其實還蠻少的我們只要主要是人事預算人力上面人力大概10個人10個人在負責整個400多萬人的這個網路系統"},{"start":11811.926,"end":11827.958,"text":"因為我們全部的基金會我們大概只有40個人而已所以我們大概大概6、7個人大概10個人左右負責這個然後還有一部分是我們的那個網路工程室這部分我們有特別就是優化這部分好所以你們就10位嘛對不對"},{"start":11829.038,"end":11851.472,"text":"加網路工程師大概是15位15位好謝謝再提供一些更明確的資料讓我們知道好不好我們希望人民台也能夠吸取你們這方面的經驗然後再來就是客傳會成立的時候你們是完全參照原文會的模式你們的設置條例也是參考原文會的設置條例實務上面有沒有什麼任何的困境"},{"start":11853.125,"end":11876.078,"text":"因為很顯然你們現在跟人民台的模式是不一樣雖然你們都是設置條例是超了我們的版本但是你們現在的經營模式是不一樣的所以目前有沒有碰到什麼困境那你現在是要請主委回答嗎還是您可以再說明一下主委在這裡啊主委在這裡啊你可以提供你的看法"},{"start":11877.635,"end":11901.693,"text":"主委你來簡單說明一下謝謝我剩下一點點時間請你就是可以更精準的來回答我當然我們的學期曲線大概是慢慢已經往上升目前為止沒有碰到重大的困難那有重大的困難是什麼不是重大的有困難的地方在哪裡有困難的地方其實就是說剛剛講的如果我們能夠那個影音能夠整合"},{"start":11902.153,"end":11905.537,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11919.872,"end":11920.992,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":11941.397,"end":11942.199,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":11956.801,"end":11977.319,"text":"年輕人客語能力在消退所以我想我們客傳會他們非常辛苦就是說他如果要直接提升收聽的情況的話就做老一點的節目因為老一點的人都會聽客家話但是如果我們考慮到客語的延續的話就要想辦法做一些年輕的節目"},{"start":11978.3,"end":11981.021,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":12001.288,"end":12021.622,"text":"所以我可不可以這樣講主委就是說你們在現在有限的人力有限的經費上面你們已經朝著現在新的潮流去走而不是固守成就然後就是一直固守在現在其實我坦白說我自己身為在立法院已經22年了這個所謂的設置條例我們生出來的人民台離開公廣集團我們推動的"},{"start":12023.663,"end":12025.064,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案。"},{"start":12051.684,"end":12055.286,"text":"市場小就要跑到主流的媒體裡面去打開市場而不是把所有的預算裡面自己要去在裡面去做事情我覺得這些概念主委還有董事長剛剛是有的所以我們希望你們的這個經驗跟這樣的"},{"start":12079.962,"end":12080.942,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":12113.307,"end":12117.27,"text":"好謝謝高金委員那再來我們請吳清明交委好主席請我們客委會我們的楊主委吳美好好主委好"},{"start":12140.41,"end":12163.909,"text":"主委在新北市我們的外來人口我們客家人的比例就佔13.5%所以就在新北市是外來人口最多就是我們客家租賃但是現在我們已經4月到5月我們的童花季又要開始辦了那童花季我們每年所辦的主委"},{"start":12166.067,"end":12167.292,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12172.366,"end":12175.108,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12201.984,"end":12203.085,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":12216.742,"end":12236.608,"text":"一百一十二年補助了八十萬其實這個經費是不是能夠逐年來提升因為這是有意義推動我們客家的文化的是一個項目之一請主委是不是可以來做作為身家的部分"},{"start":12237.168,"end":12261.147,"text":"所以這樣感謝委員按多年來一切對新北市客家事務多多的關心可以說本來就輕度的幫助土生的部分確實多多客家鄉親都還在買凍髮那些土生去掉就拆梯一直滲台的鐵線目前人力從今年不足80萬其實凍髮機人力要希望說明日延遲不用攀台法通為主"},{"start":12266.251,"end":12284.1,"text":"二、攤童話小旅行本身曾經在三檔刊發及做相關的宣傳：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發：內政委員會其中在三檔刊發："},{"start":12289.562,"end":12292.526,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":12305.143,"end":12306.664,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12332.283,"end":12352.519,"text":"主委其實你說我們在童話季在新北市就土城這一場你看新北市唯一土城這一場是都是辦了人草最多所以你看所有的攤位都是推動我們的客家美食還有一些客家的藝品"},{"start":12353.46,"end":12356.343,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12370.339,"end":12395.259,"text":"土城也有幾個客家的社團由客家的社團來推動這樣應該速度會比較快因為我們客家人其實我們像是閩南人客家語言我們也聽不懂那但是他們在那邊整個在交流都是在講客語我認為這樣是推動我們客家語言是最好的辦法"},{"start":12396.419,"end":12408.904,"text":"公共法庭當中使用客家法案,大家知道公共審判使用客家法案的細分,但我們知道那些案例推動行為,非常重要的,所以做委員會才會關心到土生的情況,那些記憶體檢求的內容。"},{"start":12411.745,"end":12415.008,"text":"二、公共財政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":12428.376,"end":12432.218,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":12456.365,"end":12456.805,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":12481.468,"end":12484.431,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12502.965,"end":12508.008,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":12532.961,"end":12533.941,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12558.618,"end":12561.203,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":12568.803,"end":12583.436,"text":"因為澳門的部分因為我們在那裏還有派人在那裏運作啦香港的部分的管也是在那裏但是我們只有在那裏請顧問在那裏但是我們就委員會本身每天有一個小組跟他們用視訊處理緊急的事務不是說緊急的公文上等我們過來來處理這樣"},{"start":12596.047,"end":12615.672,"text":"因為我看我們的預算編列一億三千五百多萬所以說在這方面一億三千五百多萬我們在那一邊的主要是租金租金算貴啦香港跟澳門我們要租裡面還有保險租金的部分就對了租金是比較貴香港的租金一方面都比較貴雖然這幾年有降"},{"start":12623.015,"end":12626.877,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12647.89,"end":12649.833,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":12666.434,"end":12666.914,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12696.896,"end":12698.283,"text":"現時在香港及澳門,您統計起來人數多少?"},{"start":12702.122,"end":12724.576,"text":"因為一般來說在香港的大部分都是在台灣分公司在台灣他就有事情這麼過不然就派幹部在那裡比較多因為主要分公司都在台灣比較多香港不然都是做一個辦秋宿還是說合作的那個地方都是短暫的進駐嘛我們總結總共在那裡大概差不多4萬5六個"},{"start":12730.299,"end":12732.76,"text":"好謝謝吳祈明交委那接下來請丁薛忠委員"},{"start":12765.962,"end":12772.264,"text":"主席好各位委員好各位官員好我請楊主委請楊主委主委好剛剛聽到主委都用文語回答我對主委我覺得很敬佩對我們自己的文化也很堅持"},{"start":12792.672,"end":12793.874,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12808.115,"end":12811.957,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":12833.069,"end":12838.211,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"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主委好今天天天在看因為平平的苗栗人 又平平的客家人當然尤其這樣主委讓我們通話讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽到 讓人家聽"},{"start":14027.523,"end":14038.326,"text":"當然,這個故鄉,檢估了公職生因果的平等難免窮擁情況之下,我對苗栗說實在有加重思考。若寬度369幸福計劃加速推動提防創生的計劃,我看苗栗的補助要多少?"},{"start":14056.038,"end":14077.408,"text":"二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國營土民意貼房提出的額度無窮用。二、國�"},{"start":14079.983,"end":14086.627,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14105.979,"end":14110.363,"text":"目前正在進行當中已經heading："},{"start":14127.621,"end":14129.423,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14151.621,"end":14155.302,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14173.308,"end":14175.349,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":14203.508,"end":14204.95,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14218.408,"end":14219.709,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14245.72,"end":14246.921,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":14268.076,"end":14268.517,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":14283.08,"end":14283.66,"text":"客家委員會是文化發展基金．"},{"start":14313.42,"end":14322.782,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播計6案。 三、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播計6案。"},{"start":14338.365,"end":14346.532,"text":"若欠欠本省的職年及損返,將會運作相關問題。目前這樣要看。當然將會相關的文化事物,越來越多、多需求的事件,將會沒有排除。說到省略價值基金。以現況來說,總議員的職年有多大?基金,將會對顏黑格文化提供保障。"},{"start":14365.529,"end":14375.612,"text":"當然現在行政院主席說本人的客家委員會金額比較多所以比較多的時候當然我希望主委好好地利用我看這件問題當然想請教主委問一問高僚要不要留下來問一問高僚要不然你自己安排不過我的經營我其實希望留下來當然希望做得正確"},{"start":14393.958,"end":14405.404,"text":"負重做客家負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負責負"},{"start":14423.332,"end":14425.373,"text":"客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":14448.409,"end":14450.911,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":14462.541,"end":14466.882,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14492.446,"end":14494.668,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":14510.302,"end":14511.863,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14531.539,"end":14534.623,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算計6案。"},{"start":14548.618,"end":14553.36,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14577.89,"end":14579.179,"text":"謝謝主席本席想邀請楊主委"},{"start":14586.636,"end":14609.192,"text":"主委好我想我們首先就針對於我們客委會在113年度的預算在綜合規劃的發展客家族群主流化這個發展計劃裡頭你編列了1.17億左右那其中我們來探討這一個部分也就是跨域合作推廣"},{"start":14609.972,"end":14611.373,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":14631.641,"end":14633.703,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算案"},{"start":14660.282,"end":14678.592,"text":"第二落差,所以本席首先在請教主委我們要如何的來加強海外客家社團辦理活動你要怎麼樣去加強那同時在你整個督導跟評估方面要怎麼樣去落實你的預算的一個執行"},{"start":14679.332,"end":14681.173,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14706.85,"end":14708.852,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14733.609,"end":14735.41,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14759.461,"end":14761.842,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14776.588,"end":14778.87,"text":"二、青旗本的二鄉主席總署曾契斗將白宮政府佔、全國有400人佔。"},{"start":14796.043,"end":14820.14,"text":"經驗502張,500多張。所以要再持續動態。所以主委,你剛才講到最先,你那個必須要去調整啊。你預算編了,你的執行率不出來。講這些理由,這不是理由的。我運用了一分鐘的時間讓你去講。所以我還是認為說,你必須要去改變你的方法。"},{"start":14820.72,"end":14822.362,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":14837.056,"end":14838.497,"text":"主委你這麼說本席還是沒辦法認同你"},{"start":14864.986,"end":14865.807,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14881.448,"end":14897.224,"text":"二、本席要跟您討論的也是語言,我跟您討論過幾次。生根語言的部分,客語傳承的這個部分,我跟您討論過了好幾次。所以本席要請教,客家語言升職計畫,你在111年度裡頭,30歲以下的通過率沒有達到6成。"},{"start":14903.67,"end":14904.671,"text":"董事長,董事員要學學法又不是學學法。"},{"start":14922.643,"end":14926.867,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14946.284,"end":14949.186,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14974.946,"end":14977.507,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":14992.452,"end":14993.253,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":15011.954,"end":15029.122,"text":"到目前為止你的普查113年度來跟112年度雖然有增加預算但是70個客家文化的重點發展區呢到目前為止你的普查是60個全區普查所以你還沒有完成還有10個還沒有完成請問主委要60文化基礎的這個資料呢那麼你整個的規劃依據跟你各界的學術研討"},{"start":15041.047,"end":15041.827,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":15070.95,"end":15075.671,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案。"},{"start":15099.307,"end":15102.368,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":15124.85,"end":15150.823,"text":"十年回不去囉十年回不去了沒有我們私立學校私立學校可以因為我上個月才接到我接到兩次就回不去啦對那我上個月還收到專任的聘書我接到兩次一次三年一次四年我二月的時候還接到學校給我的專任聘書希望520之後還能看到你啦其實以前你當陸委會主委大家對你是有期待的"},{"start":15151.77,"end":15152.11,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":15173.268,"end":15175.789,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":15191.238,"end":15193.44,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議"},{"start":15213.793,"end":15218.118,"text":"這個是不是你們的掌握是不是確定會有馬戲奧會確不確定我覺得我倒是想從委員那邊獲得一些訊息"},{"start":15226.444,"end":15231.268,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":15251.073,"end":15253.015,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案"},{"start":15270.818,"end":15271.979,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算決議．檢送決議．"},{"start":15290.465,"end":15294.128,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":15320.356,"end":15320.676,"text":"來!我們看到了!"},{"start":15347.637,"end":15351.099,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":15371.119,"end":15372.76,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":15392.213,"end":15408.763,"text":"對呀但是對於馬前總統去大陸這一行我們看到的其實執政黨就是立委罵罵罵罵罵但是我們政府單位看起來是很克制的基本上最少你今天到目前為止也沒有去罵罵很久"},{"start":15411.07,"end":15420.075,"text":"因為他任何國人要去大陸做文化交流的交流,我們當然都是樂觀其成的。問題是在於每一個人是不同的角度嘛。大家認為馬總統他可能會涉及到,可能會不會是涉及到被統戰。被統戰?這給你老虎信心,我們去統戰他們啦!我們去統戰他們啦!為什麼怕被統戰呢?"},{"start":15438.226,"end":15440.427,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":15455.091,"end":15458.036,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":15471.135,"end":15472.436,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":15495.971,"end":15496.732,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":15508.157,"end":15530.707,"text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謝謝主委那因為今天很感謝主委的辛勞可是我還是要跟主委分享最近就是馬英九前總統到大陸去參訪很多政治人物不管是網軍跟側翼都在做抹紅的一個動作就主委的高度來看你認為你怎麼看現在馬英九前總統去他一直在網路或是媒體上或是一些政治人物一直抹紅"},{"start":16457.142,"end":16457.662,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":16476.015,"end":16478.456,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":16495.284,"end":16511.596,"text":"有多元的意見在我們民主自由的社會是很普遍的一個現象只是我們期待大家理性的去做一些探討馬總統之所以會比較被大家做這樣的一個關注當然主要因為他當過中華民國的總統"},{"start":16513.257,"end":16515.118,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。"},{"start":16539.52,"end":16541.461,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案。"},{"start":16554.537,"end":16569.195,"text":"好謝謝主委的分享所以顧名思義主委認為是說馬賢總統是否是不是在這次出訪大陸的行為的這個參訪現在的目前的過程中是沒有看到明顯或是你自己個人沒有覺得他是有這個賣台的一個情況對不對"},{"start":16570.756,"end":16584.508,"text":"我想他定位既然是文化跟教育的交流那基本上大概就是在這樣的一個層次上面好謝謝主委的這個解釋那最後請教一下我們這個主委那請問你520之後你會是否會續任"},{"start":16586.141,"end":16591.603,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":16603.973,"end":16607.655,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"},{"start":16633.442,"end":16649.35,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人客家委員會及所屬及財團法人"},{"start":16662.956,"end":16664.184,"text":"不認知的客家委員會是誰?"},{"start":16668.162,"end":16679.048,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案計6案。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算凍結案。"},{"start":16694.157,"end":16699.261,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案"}]}},{"id":"15789","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15789","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685307cb56df1ecea52247fba16bfc1c1c43be8d109af184be4a863a53b8e8d8d0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-08","start_time":"2024-04-08T08:30:48+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-08T13:01:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":16212,"委員發言時間":"08:30:48 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and life balance的態度那我想請教部長"},{"start":2498.124,"end":2509.313,"text":"您對這樣的說法,您的想法是什麼?報告委員,我們勞動部一向主張工作跟生活要平衡。工作的時候我們當然也要努力,但是適當的休息,讓生性能夠達到釋放這個是應該的。"},{"start":2514.657,"end":2528.776,"text":"謝謝部長,部長我講兩個小故事給您聽我服務的醫院正對面就是過去長期服務就是一個非常非常有名的電腦公司有一年他們全部的員工在我們醫院做健康檢查結果我們發現他的健康檢查數字是滿江紅"},{"start":2530.578,"end":2548.73,"text":"那另外我要談這個台灣的健保台灣的健保如果你問全民的這個滿意度大概都9成以上可是如果你只調查醫療人員醫事人員的就是醫療提供者大概滿意度頂多3成這是比離死盪還遙遠所以就是說當事人提供這些服務的時候他們認為是用他們的血汗"},{"start":2549.891,"end":2562.6,"text":"去撐出的這個奇蹟所以就是說那當然早期的那個住院醫師你知道住院醫師早期包括我以前他們當年一個月值10幾天的班那是沒命沒力的去值班當然他們學習很快也付出很大但是現在連住院醫師都列入這個勞基法了那當然張忠國理事長他的想法我老實說我可以理解我可以理解可是時代不同了那就對於這個大企業家他其實發表這樣有時候不是對"},{"start":2579.931,"end":2583.773,"text":"您對於捍衛勞工他們追求比較他期待的生活方式您的想法或是你們會不會站出來捍衛這個勞工的期待對生活的跟工作品質平衡的期待"},{"start":2599.135,"end":2618.974,"text":"因為工作與生活平衡一向是勞動部的一個政策的重點那我們其實也都鼓勵這個企業主能夠讓勞工有適當的一個休閒甚至要提供一些紓壓的一些課程然後讓勞工能夠"},{"start":2620.535,"end":2649.395,"text":"謝謝部長您就強調說是要一個堅固或平衡的一個想法不過早期很辛苦白手起家的企業家他們當然經歷不同時代不同他會有不同的想法部長我們回到今天主題很多雙薪小雙薪家庭他不敢生孩子我們先撇開這個經濟因素當然雙薪相對他的經濟因素可能是少一點點但是您覺得他們還是不願意生小孩部長您瞭解他們最主要的理由可能是什麼嗎就是雙薪家庭他們還是沒有要生孩子這樣子"},{"start":2651.075,"end":2657.978,"text":"部長您談得非常正確第一個據我們了解整個收集資料第一個就是時間都給了工作因為這個根據媒體報導很多家長的共同困擾就是說他們因為要兼顧工作跟家庭"},{"start":2672.904,"end":2675.766,"text":"所以他們覺得陪伴孩子的教育或成長的這個時間是有限沒有辦法很完整那即便交給這個保姆等等他們還是會擔心環境跟照顧的這個品質另外就是說他白天都付出給工作嘛這是我們的責任"},{"start":2688.436,"end":2698.646,"text":"但是回到家裡說老實說很多工作不能完全排除你在下班時間以後還是必須做你工作上的某一些支援跟回應這是第一個就他們覺得在時間上沒有辦法大概都給的工作比較多的比例第二個就是請假的這個困擾跟不便性例如說剛剛您也報告到育嬰假但是我知道育嬰假因為相對長嘛所以他回到職場上"},{"start":2711.118,"end":2739.319,"text":"他不一定能夠回到他比較期待的那個職位雖然職等的他必須他有權力復職但是有時候是有一些困難還有孩子生下來了他需要照顧他會發生一些額外的需要照顧的這個壓力所以這些都會成為就是說生育孩子養育孩子的一些顧慮跟這個阻力那現行的法規是性別平等工作法第16條孩子3歲以前可以請育嬰假但是老實說孩子3歲以後還是會有一些額外"},{"start":2740.1,"end":2757.797,"text":"你需要照顧的這個需要額外的照顧嗎所以這是第二件事就是說他們對於請假過去大概就會用試假啦特休來處理就是說請假的困擾不變是第二個第三個我認為時代是不同的現行的制度下是不是可能會加一些幫助生育孩子的一些"},{"start":2758.357,"end":2764.881,"text":"但是我的孩子是生30萬孩子但去年部長知道生了13萬多的小孩所以我是覺得各部門是不是應該在現有的工作制度下加一點幫助讓他們願意生孩子幼嬰尤其這個育齡族群他絕對是我們整個生產力的主力"},{"start":2782.352,"end":2805.374,"text":"那他們生小孩這個孩子是有孩子是讓我們國家繼續壯大永續的一個非常重要的因素所以所以很多的調查都發現說沒有完善的這個育兒配套措施確實是跟增育率的這個有正相關正相關的這個很多研究調查都證實所以部長人口負成長已經成為我們的國安問題那去年出生我剛剛提到才13萬多人"},{"start":2807.176,"end":2826.323,"text":"那對於已經出生的孩子我們也就是國立出生但已經出生的孩子怎麼樣幫助父母親在職場工作能夠有完善的照顧跟陪伴這也很重要請部長看一下右邊這個表這個是去年八月TVS他用social lab去查這個所謂的網路的那些聲量的就討論的排行榜"},{"start":2828.544,"end":2844.189,"text":"職場父母育兒六大困難你可以看到第一名就是缺乏時間陪伴孩子這個占最高排行第一第二個是育兒政策配套不完善那還有保母的問題另外甚至有很多是女性她還在思考我是不是要離職來當一個全職媽媽這幾個因素也讓部長做參考部長這個現行有兩個法條居然是父母有義務跟責任一個就是幼兒教育及照顧法第41條"},{"start":2855.433,"end":2874.692,"text":"他說家長父有參加教保服務機構之幼兒及親子活動的義務第二個教育基本法規定家長父有輔導子女的責任那部長這個法律您知道嗎就是說當爸爸媽媽是有責任有法律責任的但是大部分他們參加這個都是透過私人假期或試假參與這個親子活動所以部長我們可能某個程度要"},{"start":2879.756,"end":2885.34,"text":"幫助他們來解決因為時間有限我們再看下一張有一個東西叫做親職活動親職教育親職教育是一個名詞就是說我也是這樣這次才學習就是指為人父母要學習教養子女的一些教育課程內容包括正確的親子關係父母職責的認識親子溝通的教育跟方法瞭解兒童所面對的社會問題去解決他自我成長等等"},{"start":2904.651,"end":2927.466,"text":"但是面對這些也許學校老師非常努力非常認真去籌辦這些輕職教育的活動但是希望能夠提高家長的參與率但事實上家長的出席率還是不高那主要是他們不敢請假或未必就是說也不方便請假那輕職教育假是有他的意義跟這個責任那部長您是不是支持有這個輕職教育假那個是法規規定的輕職教育假過去沒有的輕職教育假其實"},{"start":2933.21,"end":2954.559,"text":"對,剛剛我特別只是說他是有一些內容的、內涵的對,其實報告委員其實對於就是育兒或相關孩子照顧的我們現在其實有一些價別是可以運用比如說有這個家庭照顧假他有時候是要參加因為大部分都是會在假日或下班您提到家庭照顧假我再給你下一張就是我要談"},{"start":2955.359,"end":2959.301,"text":"家庭照顧假應該要個案事實進行合理認定再給予重寬認定而且不要併入事假但是現在的時代生活形態不同會有新的狀況比如說之前疫情期間比如說小孩有一些感染就是說他可能會需要一些額外的"},{"start":2982.551,"end":2985.893,"text":"我覺得這個是可以討論啦有些輕職假就是家庭照顧費他其實類似可以運用到輕職的照顧上面去那有些我是覺得可以與時俱進來檢討"},{"start":3007.944,"end":3036.367,"text":"我們可以要講因為時代真的不同我們現在真的是缺小孩嘛下一張最後一張就是說我們在看現在就業保險法裡面他照顧的對象包括事業給付提早就業獎助津貼職業訓練生活津貼育嬰留職津貼失業人保險等等津貼但是剛剛我這個前面都提到一些他輕職假津貼輕職教育假家庭照顧假可不可能在這個現有的這個就業保險津貼裡面把因為時代所需要"},{"start":3037.748,"end":3059.896,"text":"加入這幾項來做考慮因為我們本黨大概會提出相關的法規相關的草案法規那我不知道勞動部有沒有在準備這個事我覺得假設假設把它放進去會讓家長覺得說我如果來配合這些活動的參與跟學習這是一種責任跟榮譽而不是說我要被扣薪的那種負面感受我覺得對他們要願意養育孩子這種意願"},{"start":3062.877,"end":3082.116,"text":"應該很正面我想增加相關的這個津貼來支持這個方向我是覺得是可以來討論但是就是說如果是以舊保的財源來看我是覺得這個問題還是會在財源的問題因為我們在舊保在支現在是育嬰留停是佔了我們的大宗44%以上44%將近45%失業給付佔了43%就是說我們現在"},{"start":3089.042,"end":3106.623,"text":"謝謝部長,了解財源是一個問題,但是時代不同原來舊保的目的是失業給付的一個財源,但沒有關係,這個我們一樣支持,但現在我的意思說如果整個要擴大到金質價,今天其實是不夠,因為我們現在每年的結餘大概"},{"start":3107.584,"end":3107.604,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":3129.514,"end":3130.215,"text":"接下來請陳金輝委員發言"},{"start":3154.119,"end":3154.759,"text":"上週三地震"},{"start":3178.105,"end":3197.407,"text":"但勞動部反應非常的快勞動部馬上發了一個新聞稿提到說假使是因為交通問題呢不可以歸咎為員工的事情而遲到僱主不應視為遲到或曠職但是工資要照給要看與僱主自己協商部長你覺得"},{"start":3198.428,"end":3218.17,"text":"如果100個僱主有幾個他會主動跟員工協商說好我們這個是有新的假期報告委員因為這個天災是不可抗力雙方都不可規則所以法律才會這樣規定但是我想一般僱主也是會體恤勞工的話應該都會給"},{"start":3220.832,"end":3222.154,"text":"我先幫您做一個表格因為像上禮拜三我們在"},{"start":3239.132,"end":3266.311,"text":"這邊開會就有許許多專家學者因為是從南部過來因此延誤了4個小時以上但我也有收到陳情他是被列為半天的市假所以一個勞工這樣子半天的市假就消耗掉了所以剛部長您提到的說您可以體諒僱主大部分都會都會體恤員工而給予薪水但實際上的話我想如果您沒有具體去規範因為"},{"start":3267.992,"end":3268.332,"text":"好 這我們來討論齁"},{"start":3283.476,"end":3307.897,"text":"再來這邊也要鼓勵部長說我們很快就啟動了天災臨時工的措施這個非常好因為我們可以提高當地的經濟還有就業率讓當地失業的受災者有工作但是我們來看一下內容左邊您講到說提供每個小時183元每個月最高補助27000塊大約是這樣子"},{"start":3311.039,"end":3313.581,"text":"就現在整體通膨物價飆漲您覺得這樣子的時薪是足夠的嗎?"},{"start":3320.27,"end":3343.809,"text":"報告委員 這個應該因為這個零工措施的就是已經既有的政策一般都是這樣子那其實我跟委員報告我們其實這個程序都很快我們幾乎當天申請當天就核定了因為這個對這個應該沒有什麼問題部長您知道您現在的這個申請的受災失業者還有社會型專案計畫您知道現在已經有幾個人申請嗎"},{"start":3345.99,"end":3368.859,"text":"我早上還特別查我請署長說明一下跟委員報告我們今天早上最新的統計花蓮現在瑞穗已經提出15位零工那現在目前大概還有幾個花蓮地區的鄉鎮目前都還在盤點所以寫出計畫的我早上問是零嗎還沒啊寫出計畫的只有提出申請要打零工的有15人"},{"start":3375.453,"end":3389.872,"text":"這個委員其實目前這個林宮這個過去已經實施了非常多次其實現在地方政府其實目前都是很簡便那個計畫不是要寫很繁雜的其實大概就一個頁面大概就是需要多少大概人數大概就是基本資料而已"},{"start":3389.872,"end":3393.033,"text":"接下來他們會進入一個經濟的寒冬因為快要暑假所以許多人已經被取消了訂房"},{"start":3419.62,"end":3441.05,"text":"因為本來很多人家長要帶著小朋友去玩暑假花蓮是一個很旺季嘛但是現在他們因為這樣子的天災可能半年都還沒有辦法復甦所以我在這邊是提供部長一個建議不管是這個補助的金額或者是這個申請的程序您看我框起來這些表都是一週內要完成兩週內完成一週內完成"},{"start":3444.191,"end":3469.484,"text":"這些時間加一加也要個三個禮拜再來您看受災失業者他要提供的相關證明文件其實也相對是繁瑣的所以如果您可以把這個流程還有受災失業者他需要減負的文件盡量簡化這樣子我們才真的幫得到花蓮人嘛因為花蓮人現在需要的是麵包但看到你們端出的是麵包屑有一點緩不濟急啊"},{"start":3473.417,"end":3498.102,"text":"我們這個零工的措施一定是重優、重速、重減其實需要的人他只要向勞動部申請立刻登記就我們就合了只是說那個鄉鎮公所他們要提計畫到底需要哪些工作提供我們那個也都是固定的一些有一些範例我們也都會協助他們盡快能夠把這個零工的措施能夠落實讓需要的人趕快來工作"},{"start":3499.262,"end":3523.224,"text":"謝謝部長,下一個我們來看一下今天我們既然是要討論育嬰假這個是我自己的小孩他上網看到行政院的有一個兒童版的網站許部長在上面介紹的非常可愛他說小朋友可以叫我阿春部長也是全國一千萬名勞工朋友的靠山但是呢就像剛才陳昭芝委員有提到的"},{"start":3524.125,"end":3539.4,"text":"台灣勞工的比例非常的高雙薪家庭的比例也很高其實許許多多的小朋友不只是要部長當他們爸媽的靠山也很希望有爸媽的陪伴因此大概在3到4週前"},{"start":3540.741,"end":3555.356,"text":"部長您有跟記者朋友們說您在滾動式的調整去考量是不是勞工朋友也可以增加有薪的幼兒照顧假請問現在滾動式的調整您思考的如何了"},{"start":3561.107,"end":3587.199,"text":"不是 這個是公務員的這是公務員這是公務員的但是當時媒體朋友有沒有向您詢問說是不是勞工也可以開始考慮做這樣子的我們現在也就是看行政院這邊因為還有再開一次會我印象中有再開過會那我們當然如果說這個方向是確定我們當然也認為勞工部分我們會來檢討跟進這樣子"},{"start":3591.361,"end":3618.311,"text":"對我在這邊有一個比較具體的提議啦因為現在呢根據性別平等法規定7天應該要以家庭照顧假為計算如果可能你們因為這個現行法規的考量或者是這個預算的考量如果我們來要求勞動部研擬修改勞工的請假辦法再增加7天的試假的扣打但是不給新的給予育兒幼兒照顧假您覺得這方面是可行的嗎"},{"start":3620.501,"end":3636.277,"text":"報告委員我覺得這個部分都可以討論那我們可以邀請勞資雙方的團體大家來開會凝聚共識看怎麼來做因為這牽涉到他們的雙方的權益所以你覺得一個月內如果沿你勞工無薪"},{"start":3637.498,"end":3638.839,"text":"這是本黨之前在選舉期間提出我看非常多的民進黨委員也提出跟我們相同的看法"},{"start":3655.611,"end":3676.797,"text":"認為需要追隨我們國際的標準將我們現行的產價延長到14週但是我也看了一下部長您的回覆是覺得說第一因為台灣是中小型企業比較多麻煩會不利女性的就業第二許許多多我們跟其他國家的計算方式不一樣所以呢我有看了"},{"start":3677.737,"end":3706.09,"text":"你們有一個150頁的報告是各國對於育兒勞工之影響及相關補助策略上寫得非常詳細我覺得部長您的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所他們做足了資料但是我們從裡面看起來勒不管是產假育嬰留停的津貼或是有薪資整體的週數其實我們都大幅的落後這些OECD的先進國家非常多"},{"start":3706.65,"end":3730.246,"text":"甚至丹麥阿法國他們還分成懷第一胎懷第二胎以及懷雙胞胎他產假的週數都有不同因為他知道說雙胞胎一定需要更久或是第二胎同時照顧第一胎會更累但是部長您覺得我們是不是應該要再稍微調整成比八週再長一點呢"},{"start":3731.734,"end":3759.271,"text":"報告委員因為這個部分我是覺得也很多委員在倡議我覺得我也有交代優待會說這個我們應該再來做一些討論看看是不是可以來適度的把這個產假的這個週數是不是要再放寬但是就是讓整個育兒的生養環境更優這個部分我想我們這樣的方向都會來進一步來做一些研議"},{"start":3761.693,"end":3778.688,"text":"當然今天也有一個重點是講到男性育嬰假這個是許許多多的民意調查去調查為什麼台灣的男性會不想要請育嬰假這都非常合理比如說他們因為薪水因為主管的升遷考量因為怕被講話他人的觀感等等覺得丟臉"},{"start":3780.169,"end":3806.929,"text":"好這個是要給予勞動部肯定的2022年部長您知道為什麼男性申請育嬰假的比例創新高到達25%嗎這個報告委員因為我們放寬吼第一個他其實可以同時30天短期數也可以再來他可以同個別或同時啦還有就是那個我們多了兩成的公務預算的補助薪資補助我想這個都是誘因"},{"start":3808.53,"end":3825.798,"text":"對 這個媒體也有幫您分析的當然有一些津貼再來疫情是一個很大的因素因為疫情期間有非常多脫育的地方其實沒有開放所以他們不得不把小孩帶回家我覺得看到這樣子非常好因為根據您那個150頁的報告丹麥已經非常努力了男性的育兒假申請也頂多到30%然後我們居然可以在2022年衝到25%可是呢我希望這個數據"},{"start":3836.383,"end":3857.474,"text":"不要2023、2024又變回原來的10幾%對,因為我們就沒有疫情的加持了嘛所以今天有看到各位的會報那各位的會報有提到說呢我們要鼓勵這個全序部要鼓勵有申請育嬰留停的男性公務員出來做一些經驗分享"},{"start":3858.474,"end":3884.53,"text":"當然這個利益是很好但實際帶動的效果我覺得是有限啦這邊提供部長一個參考日本呢你也知道日本的文化也許比我們看待我們男性還要更為保守嘛所以日本他會做到說他由上往下整個去找出員工超過100人的公司並且這大概5萬家去制定而且公佈男性育嬰休假的比例的目標"},{"start":3886.01,"end":3887.171,"text":"謝謝陳京輝委員接下來請林月晴委員發言"},{"start":3924.368,"end":3953.139,"text":"主席好然後麻煩我們的部長請許部長評委好部長那看這張應該可以知道就是下頁就是我們現在從2022年的公布14個國家的勞參率裡面那女性勞參率臺灣事實上只高過於義大利"},{"start":3953.68,"end":3966.677,"text":"我們只有51.6%低於其他的國家那也意味著我們女性本來事實上如果更多女性進來的話事實上我們現在很多在缺工的狀態要期待女性是不是"},{"start":3967.162,"end":3994.853,"text":"可以來協助經濟發展可是女性就業率看起來事實上是拉緊爆的因為從2023年的統計來看那25歲到29歲達到89.9高於每日寒可是到30歲之後就往下降了成了一個V字型那因為為什麼因為我們的女性很多就是為了帶孩子或是照顧家裡的長輩所以"},{"start":3995.74,"end":4023.846,"text":"想問部長因為照顧離職的問題一直都很嚴重尤其對於女性在家庭的一個觀念裡邊很多時候長期是被要求要負擔照顧起老的小的那所以部長對於目前我知道你們有這樣的統計可是想問更細緻的就是說其中照顧失能者老人嬰兒跟兒童的人數有各自有多少就是說因為家裡的照顧而去離開職場的"},{"start":4025.939,"end":4034.105,"text":"報告委員根據主席總書的資料照顧65歲以上的長輩而離職的這是去年5月公布的9000人"},{"start":4046.969,"end":4073.719,"text":"所以部長是不是可以因為所有的因為我說我個人很喜歡看數據看數據之後你背後的問題要怎麼去解決如果充分掌握這數據就知道說你今天要提出來的所有的對應勞工的問題的話才有辦法能夠被解決那現在今天提出來的就想問的是現行的你剛剛報告的就育嬰留"},{"start":4074.266,"end":4074.506,"text":"可以"},{"start":4089.661,"end":4113.037,"text":"那怎麼執行?何時執行?為什麼?因為現在時間3月你們也有開過會那到底什麼時候是要執行?是520之前還是520之後還預計如何讓企業來執行為什麼?不是把一個公文紙或是發一個宣傳企業雖然你的報告裡面也有提到說一定會有就是鼓勵可是這個鼓勵機制"},{"start":4114.238,"end":4114.839,"text":"你怎麼去鼓勵這些企業"},{"start":4129.589,"end":4152.91,"text":"可能你這些報告的都認為不會有效果報告委員沒關係 這個部分其實我們當初這個事辦的原則當初是就是說希望採志願的志願性的讓他們來參與所以但是當然我們這樣的原則出來也很多委員有很多的指教所以我也認為說其實大家講的也都有道理我們現在透過事辦原則來瞭解"},{"start":4155.712,"end":4177.215,"text":"可不可以找一些比較大的企業,我覺得也兼顧社會責任因為今天他的公司可以運作的話是運作10年20年要後邊有人能夠來工作所以企業有沒有辦法去鼓勵一些比較大型的來配合否則你的試驗方案又停留在公部門公部門是比較可以配合的話沒有辦法類推到商業團體"},{"start":4178.596,"end":4193.744,"text":"所以請部長這邊是不是在所謂招募的時候可能要特別去注意到這一點跟委員報告我們除了公部門以外私部門的大型企業也有表達參與的意願不過我跟委員報告就是說原來我們預計是5月1號要上路不過因為委員"},{"start":4195.325,"end":4219.01,"text":"好多人對這個部分都認為我們應該更周延所以我也跟同仁說持續收集更完整的意見調整以後再來上路不急著上路我們上路以後是能夠真的有能夠示範能夠有部長我想問的還有一個是如果這個要上路你所有的準備準備好了沒因為本席認為在技術上請假方法變革挑戰會落"},{"start":4220.59,"end":4249.213,"text":"在顧主的身上若對政府來講這些系統是不是健全因為為什麼因為包括請假的日數津貼申請的作業這些都要資訊系統完成不知道這現在的狀況建制的如何包括這個如果是那個未來津貼的其實我們保險是已經在有做一些初步的一些規劃了這個都有因應這一次的示範原則那不過就是說大企業這邊當然我們也在會邀請他們"},{"start":4250.113,"end":4267.182,"text":"再來做一些說明會因為現在有登記要來參與示範的我們也會先召集他們來做一些我希望系統可以處理好因為過往我們在民間在用政府的系統都很難用所以不要到時候要登載這些造成多困擾院縣畢竟單日也可以的話"},{"start":4267.83,"end":4281.647,"text":"要試辦單日也可以的話那個複雜度會非常非常的高可能就要去做考慮那在你如果說今天要去顧到嬰兒的時候也要問的是那幼兒跟老人呢因為為什麼因為民間團體也一直在倡議說可不可以有"},{"start":4286.023,"end":4299.544,"text":"給親職假,我想剛剛前面金威委員也問到那個親職假就是你是不是可以藉此次的試辦計畫用日或者甚至用時來計那有沒有對這項"},{"start":4300.726,"end":4302.166,"text":"這個事辦計畫未來是不是可以考慮"},{"start":4329.893,"end":4355.992,"text":"不是只有3歲事實上3歲前幾乎在保母家還可以彈性度比較高一點然後或是托嬰中心可是到幼兒園的時候長病毒這個問題就常常花掉家長可能要請個5天那常常都會是他們一個在勞動條件裡邊他們會覺得對他們來講比較不這麼好所以我們考慮延伸到8歲然後把我們的家庭照顧假也合併進來來作為一個親子假"},{"start":4358.747,"end":4387.354,"text":"這個報告委員其實優於法令的這個都可以先在事辦裡面都可以先做不過如果連結到要給津貼因為我們現在法令規定是三歲以下所以可不可以去考量一下就是要牽涉到修法但是我的意思是說事辦原則的部分我是覺得可以放寬因為民間團體會提出來表示他們一直以來就是會受到很多家長的需求才會提出這樣的一個訴求在"},{"start":4387.782,"end":4404.214,"text":"所以是不是可以考慮一下用這樣的一個在這次試辦的時候就把考量進去因為到8歲因為的確幼稚園階段我自己本身以前在帶孩子的時候幼稚園階段事實上是我們請假歲多的一下碰到腸病毒大概就是要這樣子的時間點"},{"start":4406.37,"end":4423.067,"text":"請部長這邊去做考量我們現在也就是說因為針對這個示範原則我們現在收集意見讓它更完整所以包括個委員這個意見我也會請業務單位來參考再來就是長照也會是一個問題我說不是只有雇到嬰兒可能"},{"start":4423.627,"end":4435.886,"text":"女性離開勞動市場她除了事實上是小孩以外還有一個就是老人那日本他們有一個93天的長期照顧安排假也就是一個被照顧者一年有93天的時間可以被"},{"start":4438.301,"end":4457.776,"text":"做為長期照顧的安排那子女就可以去請這個假那分三次請然後用社會保險支出67%的薪水那過去部長這邊也曾經回答過反正一年一個人93天一年大概就要363億的預算終歸就是錢可是錢如果可以讓我們的女性來進入到勞動市場的話來讓我們的經濟發展可以更好的話這363億不是一個難處所以我不知道"},{"start":4467.591,"end":4485.924,"text":"就當時已經有提出來我不知道這有沒有有已經去考慮那民間團體也108年的時候也在提出來就30天的有心照顧假跟150天的彈性請假的一個長照安排日本是93天那臺灣民間團體是提出這樣子的一個所以"},{"start":4487.361,"end":4507.313,"text":"請問一下這個因為已經在也討論好多年因為108年提出來當時勞動部的回答是說要邀請相關的團體學者來開會討論然後也表示每年大概有18.7萬人應照顧然後減少工時請假跟轉換工作所以有累積到13.3萬人應"},{"start":4509.794,"end":4510.395,"text":"報告委員,我們其實有開過會"},{"start":4528.535,"end":4543.275,"text":"我先講,就是雇主端的部分大概應該有65%以上是反對為什麼呢?因為認為說在整個人力的調配上他們會產生困難那在受雇者方面他主要的問題在於說如果"},{"start":4544.056,"end":4567.253,"text":"如果沒有辦法有任何薪資的補助或津貼大概有60%的人不會申請所以這個部分會變成就是說到底人力要怎麼來協助還有財源要怎麼來支持這是重點那第二個就是說其實這個照顧的就長輩的照顧的問題其實更周延的可能就是我們長照的部分要怎麼樣通盤的去規劃這樣兩個搭起來才能夠去讓這個照顧不離職"},{"start":4573.278,"end":4593.686,"text":"少子化跟高齡老化事實上是綁在一起的如果不去解決這個一個女性30歲就進入到回到家庭裡邊她即便受到大學或者是碩士的學歷的話我覺得那也辜負了我們國家去栽培人才結果她不能夠回到職場去展現自我我認為這個應該要去考慮啦"},{"start":4596.257,"end":4623.704,"text":"到底要不要到30天甚至到150天可是要去考慮你不能只有顧到嬰兒否則的話你催不了生然後呢老的又沒辦法好然後一個女性他進入到他只要進入到家裡一兩年大家要回到職場事實上困難度會增高所以這個部分是不是可以請部長這邊兩週後提出一些相關的你們的對應措施是什麼提供給我們辦公室謝謝"},{"start":4625.353,"end":4626.474,"text":"謝謝主席 主席 我們是有請部長 請許部長"},{"start":4650.769,"end":4660.434,"text":"4月3日發生花蓮大地震之後,到目前為止,勞動部有沒有派人前往花蓮地區瞭解"},{"start":4660.953,"end":4661.173,"text":"現在也"},{"start":4689.574,"end":4703.776,"text":"人數的部分還在調查當中因為這兩天主要是忙著先救災還有報告林宮的所以沒有掌握那我要問你的就是受傷死亡的部分你要不說明一下"},{"start":4705.349,"end":4727.215,"text":"這次地震有三個死亡,一個是大貨車司機被落石殺死另外一個是準備去做邊坡修復的工作人員在交通事故在網絡上死亡另外一個是礦場的勞工在運作中被殺死那礦場部是經濟部、礦場安全部在負責這死亡部分我有掌握住了那受傷部有一些是處於通緝事故"},{"start":4728.455,"end":4747.82,"text":"所以你們還沒有掌握嗎?有有有,死亡都會掌握住了。多少人?死亡是三個。不是,我說受傷。受傷還不清楚。那收到這個可能會失業充結勞工有多少?也不清楚。對不對?"},{"start":4750.182,"end":4776.221,"text":"我們現在就是跟地方政府在盤點我們現在就是需要協助了所以還沒有掌握到嗎有聯繫但是他們還沒有具體回報本席今天的具體要求就是0403這個大地震對花蓮的衝擊非常的大那這樣的衝擊不是短期的衝擊未來它的整個觀光產業的衝擊也非常的大因為你可以看到太魯閣國家公園已經關遠了"},{"start":4777.506,"end":4791.187,"text":"然後很多重要風景點他幾乎是山崩地裂這個受到的受創太嚴重的短時是沒有辦法回復的所以本席今天要要求勞動部的就是雖然4月5號你有第一時間你有提出來你有2000個臨時工要協助重建"},{"start":4793.61,"end":4815.45,"text":"但本席認為這個是不夠的因為你包括你提到從優、從素、從簡這三個原則我覺得這個真的太少第一個從素的部分到目前為止這個還沒有這個勞工真的是透過臨時工開始取得這樣的一個資源嘛其實從素根本還沒有做到所以我覺得這個整個0403勞動部應該要成立一個專案"},{"start":4818.453,"end":4830.738,"text":"不是用你原來的你這些臨時工的方案而是你特別成立一個專案而這個專案就是你要主動去掌握目前災區受創的員工包括受傷的包括他現在可能面臨失業的家裡其實受到很大衝擊的這個總共的人數有多少然後你盤點出這樣的人數搭配你現行的2000個臨時工你要看這個到底夠不夠我覺得有可能是不夠的那另外一個人數我們都可以在對"},{"start":4847.325,"end":4860.112,"text":"那另外的就是說你給的方法因為大家現在都忙著重建家裡也受創可能公司也受到影響所以他不見他甚至他自己受傷他怎麼樣再去從事臨時工所以針對這樣的一個很大的天災我認為是要有一個特別的專案來協助所以現在是不是部長你可以成立一個0403的針對花蓮地區受災的勞工有一個特別的專案"},{"start":4875.64,"end":4890.792,"text":"另外一個我覺得這些勞工有的可能還需要貸款是勞工貸款你過去只有在過年的時候會有這個勞工貸款但這一次我覺得災區受創太嚴重了他可能根本沒有辦法他可能需要有些貸款你看到有一些早餐店他根本就倒掉了"},{"start":4891.432,"end":4917.365,"text":"或是他有一些店家他根本就不能做生意了那這個部分他可能需要是還要特別的貸款不是這每個月才兩萬多塊的補貼而已所以我認為這整個是不是部長你回去可以交代同仁了好好的盤點一下你們主動性要拿出來不是被動的等著花蓮縣政府主動積極的介入跟了解跟有什麼樣的需求這個光靠地方政府我覺得這是做不起來的一定要勞動部的資源這個可以嗎好我們"},{"start":4920.526,"end":4921.888,"text":"其實這幾天一直都有主動來聯繫,不過也體諒他們那邊其實"},{"start":4924.195,"end":4925.196,"text":"接下來我要問的是今天主題提到的"},{"start":4950.453,"end":4974.26,"text":"有關於男性請育嬰假的部分的確我們現在看到男性請育嬰假的比例雖然有在提高但是提高的速度還是緩慢的跟女性比起來他們現在請領的還是偏低只有兩成五大概是四分之一那針對這個部分今天在勞動部的相關報告裡面我沒有看到一個比較具體的改善的措施"},{"start":4974.724,"end":5000.777,"text":"但是我就要請這個部長來看一下日本跟瑞典是怎麼做的在日本的部分他現在開始就是強制性出來了他要強制企業給男性的職員來放育嬰假就是僱員超過1000人以上的企業他要求企業要報出來就是說你男性請育嬰假的資料而且沒有達到沒有達標的他會被公開"},{"start":5002.598,"end":5020.015,"text":"另外就是研擬要求百人以上的企業就是要去制定就是公司你自己去制定你要怎麼去提高這整個男性育嬰假的措施那在瑞典他是每位新生兒父母親都可以共同擁有育嬰假有一個Lady quota"},{"start":5021.397,"end":5038.557,"text":"父親的天數要佔到一定的比例那我給部長看的就是我們目前臺灣我們其實沒有任何強制性的措施我們也沒有要求我們也沒有設定目標在日本他們希望2025年可以達到男性請育嬰假比例達到50%"},{"start":5040.098,"end":5061.121,"text":"但是我們台灣沒有目標那在這個部分請問部長我們台灣沒有具體的措施也沒有目標我們要如何提升報告委員其實我們這一次就是那個彈性育嬰留停的一個示範其實就是要希望找出一個台灣可以做的一個方法那報告委員您給我們這個日本的這些"},{"start":5061.661,"end":5065.702,"text":"我覺得解決少子化的問題最關鍵就是我們現在應該給我們的年輕爸媽更多友善跟彈性的措施所以勞動部的角色坦白講非常重要因為你狹下這麼多的企業跟勞工"},{"start":5088.206,"end":5094.411,"text":"如果這一塊可以改善就改善了超過一半以上一千萬的勞工都在你這邊所以我覺得這個部分我拜託勞動部一定要積極一點日本都可以往這個方向做臺灣當然也可以所以過去我們大概都是比較柔性的就是說呼籲包括我們的性別工作平等法我們大概都是走比較柔性的沒有去強制希望企業可以主動做什麼"},{"start":5112.785,"end":5134.186,"text":"但是政策跟法律是可以引導的日本的做法我覺得很值得台灣來做參考就是如果我們要提高這個男性的參與率的話然後讓男職員放育嬰假提高他的比例我們應該要讓企業各僱主其實擔負起相對的責任而且政策你也應該要有一些要求就是讓企業的力量可以出來這個"},{"start":5135.447,"end":5158.087,"text":"我希望這個可以納進來那另外最後這邊我要提到的就是最近的這個試辦方案我覺得很重要但是民間團體希望不是只開放到日可以開放到小時既然要彈性是不是就給家長最大的彈性那這一塊勞動部現在可以做嗎在你們的試辦方案有開放到小時了嗎"},{"start":5158.527,"end":5180.301,"text":"報告委員,那個試辦方案我是覺得都可以滾動檢討,甚至配合這樣的方案。你們現在沒有到小時嗎?沒關係,但報告委員,其實這個部分我早上也跟前面的委員講說,我的試辦原則我現在還要搜集各界的意見,我等整個意見更完整我們再來試辦都沒有關係。包括說像委員您建議的說,是不是把他放官談到小時。"},{"start":5181.301,"end":5185.442,"text":"我知道另外一個要搭配的不是這個育嬰假是所謂的有心家庭照顧假你知道嗎"},{"start":5204.306,"end":5229.424,"text":"有薪家庭照顧假這個各界已經呼籲很久了但是公務人員都已經可以開始不只有有薪家庭照顧假還有6歲以下叫幼兒照顧假但是在勞工這一塊就是完全沒有就是無薪的家庭照顧假那這一塊我認為應該要突破了而且它突破的第一步應該就是先針對有子女的這個家庭你如果說整體的經費不夠那6歲以下先做啊"},{"start":5230.245,"end":5232.046,"text":"但是3歲以上到小學階段他常常會因為感染疾病什麼他要請假"},{"start":5249.17,"end":5271.289,"text":"那這個如果可以既然公務人員可以有有薪的家庭照顧假你再開放給勞工這個有薪的家庭照顧假我覺得這個應該各界要開始來研議了我們現在少子化真的到一個很誇張的地步了去年13萬多的新生兒那這一塊如果我們政府的政策再不跟上再不做一些突破的話我覺得我們的這個少子化的現象恐怕還要持續探底那我覺得這個我們"},{"start":5277.113,"end":5290.784,"text":"勞動部則無旁貸。是不是可以拜託我們勞動部也回去同時好好演繹,可以嗎?好,謝謝委員。我們會來做一個討論演繹。好,謝謝部長。謝謝。好,謝謝王委員。那接下來麻煩我們的黃秀芳委員。謝謝主席。我們請許部長還有請全序部"},{"start":5301.857,"end":5322.117,"text":"全序部相關的司長請部長和全序部黃媛好部長好今天特別提到就是我們這個有關這個育嬰留止停薪的這個津貼的事情那我想請教就是說我們也看到在2024年"},{"start":5324.94,"end":5349.71,"text":"今年度我們看到這個男性的這個請領育嬰留職停薪的比例創新高有25%那我想請教就是說其實我們看到這個男性的這個育嬰留職停薪雖然是衝到25%那我們看到另外一方面就是有關這個公務人員男性的這個公務人員申請這個育嬰留停"},{"start":5351.411,"end":5366.804,"text":"一般的這個男性勞工還是有一些落差那一般人會覺得說男性的公務人員應該算是這個工作或者是這個薪資應該比一般的勞工還要好那另外"},{"start":5368.425,"end":5382.051,"text":"很多人會覺得說應該是男性的公務人員會更希望或更願意來申請這個育嬰留停那我想請部長或者是銓敘部的這個司長為什麼會有這樣的一個落差"},{"start":5384.54,"end":5412.652,"text":"報告委員現在就是說公務人員男性育嬰留子挺薪從107人到112人事實上是從12%左右提升到18%左右男性已經有提升那因為公務人員就是說女性申請的育嬰留停的人數比較多整體而言我們就是說公務人員申請育嬰留停的不管是男性或女性家種他佔我們的母數大概是"},{"start":5413.132,"end":5413.372,"text":"主席"},{"start":5433.109,"end":5433.529,"text":"委員會進一步做一個評估"},{"start":5461.796,"end":5476.442,"text":"有沒有可能去做一個檢討就是說因為我們現在申請是用本封嘛那有沒有可能是用實質的收入來列為那個育嬰留停的這個補貼有沒有可能這樣做"},{"start":5478.523,"end":5498.064,"text":"因為現在是那個社會保險這邊來幾戶6層那政府幾戶的部分是兩層除非政府幾戶的部分要再提高那就可能會有比較鼓勵作用因為如果要從社會保險這一塊變成所有整體公務人員你要提撥的"},{"start":5498.744,"end":5498.784,"text":"拜託請勞動部長"},{"start":5517.023,"end":5546.686,"text":"那個留職挺薪今天也許可能政府看看這一塊要不要再去加碼提高我是認為就是說可以去做檢討那另外那個市長請回那我想請部長勞工的部分也是一樣就是有高薪低報的這個問題那等到他要申請這個育嬰留停的時候就真的有差如果用實際的這個投保薪資來申請的話其實確實是有他會有影響那我想請教"},{"start":5546.926,"end":5548.548,"text":"因為其實勞工他如果有一些他是這個"},{"start":5562.568,"end":5584.172,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":5584.372,"end":5606.801,"text":"報告委員我們現在的規定他所謂的月投保薪資來合附這個育嬰留停今天的給付那個月投保薪資是要他月薪資總額喔要核實申報所以這個基本上法令規定就是這樣可是剛剛委員講到說是不是如果高薪低報高薪低報第一個就是他會被處罰第二個老公可以要求他賠償損失喔"},{"start":5612.463,"end":5630.876,"text":"其實有很多他原本的薪資他就是用最低薪資然後再加其他的職業加級或專業加級我要講說跟委員報告說如果他是僱主高薪低報的話他是違法了第一個他會被我們處罰第二個勞工的損失他因為高薪低報害他領不到他應有的這個津貼"},{"start":5631.676,"end":5650.709,"text":"那這個差額是僱主要去賠償所以這個部分是沒有問題我的意思是說現在的規定就是我們月投保薪資講的就是你的月薪資的總額所以這個部分是符合剛剛委員所講的是好那其實我要跟你講的就是說其實實際上"},{"start":5652.811,"end":5666.344,"text":"實際上還是有這個狀況嘛他可能就是最低薪資然後就又加了專業專業家級或者是主管家級或什麼樣的家級加起來才有他現在的可也許我們現在的基本薪資兩萬兩萬八千多嗎"},{"start":5669.026,"end":5683.738,"text":"那再加一加27470好那兩萬七千多那再加一加加一加之後可能才有三萬多四萬多嘛那實際上就萬一他如果要開始清理這些御嬰留停那如果說用這個"},{"start":5685.439,"end":5686.84,"text":"這個部分我們會加強對僱主宣導就是跟他講說"},{"start":5709.309,"end":5729.411,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":5730.472,"end":5753.633,"text":"剛剛部長有幾位委員也特別提到就是說我們育嬰留停是不是能夠更有彈性我們現在可能就是以月來計算當然我們希望說能夠以天或者是小時來計算讓想要申請育嬰留停的人能夠更有彈性我想請部長就是說是不是可以朝著這個方向來進行"},{"start":5756.052,"end":5776.753,"text":"我們現在就是希望透過試辦的這個方式來瞭解職場上的運作還有就是說能夠怎麼樣來推行然後這雙方可能會能夠兼顧所以這個部分我們會來努力試辦就是要瞭解務實的去瞭解問題所在那你出一套適合臺灣的一個制度"},{"start":5779.334,"end":5798.6,"text":"對,我們是希望這樣子啦,因為小朋友如果還小的時候,尤其是在上幼兒園的時候,真的是時常請假,藏病毒,真的時常請假,所以爸爸媽媽其中有一位就需要帶小朋友去看病嘛,所以我覺得如果可以讓家長能夠更有彈性的話,"},{"start":5801.661,"end":5814.291,"text":"我覺得會有更多人會願意生也敢生這是我們自己單方面的一個想法那當然就是說少子化大家希望就是說在這幾年是不是有什麼樣的方式減少這個家長的一個"},{"start":5817.073,"end":5839.855,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":5840.075,"end":5854.288,"text":"相同的就是投入職場之後他也願意生養當然這個環境真的是非常的重要那剛剛我們也特別提到就是說男性的這個勞工也好或者是男性的這個公務人員其實申請這個這個育兒這個這個"},{"start":5858.592,"end":5858.612,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5888.166,"end":5891.569,"text":"謝謝黃委員接下來我們請圖全及圖委員好謝謝主席那請一下我們部長謝謝有請那個部長"},{"start":5911.41,"end":5937.947,"text":"部長你好那4月3日早上我們發生了我們7點2級的有感地震那當然我們勞動部在第一時間也發布了就是說僱主不能因為勞工因為地震沒有辦法準時上班出勤等等我們僱主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到礦值那也依照天然災害發生時的"},{"start":5938.507,"end":5954.598,"text":"有出勤相關規定辦理嗎?對不對?有發布這個新聞嗎?有有那請問一下那這個規定辦理是不是依照天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資的幾副要點來辦理?是不是以這一項要點來辦理?是"},{"start":5957.458,"end":5985.62,"text":"對嘛,因為這個就是我們天然災害勞動部的要點嘛那我請問一下那這個要點他是屬於哪一種性質是他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則是不是行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工、遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們"},{"start":5986.826,"end":6005.183,"text":"有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他全勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以"},{"start":6008.326,"end":6031.034,"text":"所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那天會發還是不發"},{"start":6033.035,"end":6050.88,"text":"他們協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權情獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權情獎金不能扣他"},{"start":6051.24,"end":6070.956,"text":"那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?"},{"start":6073.078,"end":6093.148,"text":"所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是"},{"start":6093.908,"end":6111.979,"text":"也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作"},{"start":6112.799,"end":6128.374,"text":"工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到"},{"start":6129.437,"end":6157.686,"text":"所以...所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個韓市政府說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全勤獎金就是說你看情況啦"},{"start":6160.549,"end":6171.706,"text":"但是剛剛地震的情況不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全期獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商"},{"start":6174.629,"end":6192.52,"text":"對嗎?勞資協商,所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理,我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好,那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據,那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權,請問一下部長這個退避權他的"},{"start":6195.868,"end":6222.885,"text":"定義意思是怎麼樣就是你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我我不工作啦好那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所"},{"start":6223.706,"end":6248.724,"text":"所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時"},{"start":6249.585,"end":6274.373,"text":"上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是這兩個是不一樣的概念啦對啊就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用"},{"start":6274.993,"end":6301.581,"text":"不用過去了所以就納入這個天災比照辦理對對對好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停"},{"start":6302.461,"end":6306.965,"text":"請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部．試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰"},{"start":6330.253,"end":6341.038,"text":"報告委員,這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像土偉您是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源"},{"start":6348.541,"end":6365.71,"text":"沒有沒有 這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲"},{"start":6373.294,"end":6396.347,"text":"會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做這個少子化解也是要跨部一起來努力勞動部當然是從我們的全責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分"},{"start":6402.871,"end":6431.798,"text":"我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以"},{"start":6433.658,"end":6451.865,"text":"開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這個因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊"},{"start":6455.126,"end":6481.991,"text":"對因為你這因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個"},{"start":6482.791,"end":6482.971,"text":"謝謝 感謝部長"},{"start":6503.587,"end":6528.177,"text":"謝謝圖全吉委員在這邊做以下宣告等一下在王振旭委員質詢結束休息10分鐘現在請邱政軍委員發言好我們有請薛部長請許部長現在許部長許部長邱委員好"},{"start":6533.424,"end":6544.293,"text":"部長我請問一下4月3日當天您在哪裡?這下地震的時候我剛要出門剛要出門啊?對你有收到國家警報嗎?沒有"},{"start":6544.994,"end":6567.588,"text":"沒有嗎?本席也沒有收到。那我也了解有很多人沒有收到。那因為地震當時正處於我們通勤的尖峰時段。這種情況讓很多的勞工朋友都沒有反應的時間。那在這邊我想請問部長,我們勞動部在維護勞工安全的立場上有什麼想跟氣象署反應的嗎?"},{"start":6569.47,"end":6592.657,"text":"我是覺得這部分因為這一次的震災的確有很多人反映說都沒有收到這個這個國家的這個警報所以我是覺得這部分應該當比例專業應該再來做一些檢討對啊我想我希望啦我們勞動部這邊因為基於對勞工的安全的一個考量也希望部長替我們的廣大的勞工來發聲關於這個部分請這個氣象署這邊來做一個改進可以嗎"},{"start":6598.359,"end":6626.195,"text":"好那這是花蓮的地震剛好在上班時間或在路途中根據勞動部的掌握我們總共造成了多少勞工的傷亡目前死亡人數是3位那受傷的受傷是4位就勞工的部分因為工作的目前我們掌握到的是4人那在上班的途中呢上班途中的也在陸續的也在陸續還在"},{"start":6627.918,"end":6630.2,"text":"因為我看到有一位罹難者是修復邊坡的一個工作人員"},{"start":6657.703,"end":6661.461,"text":"那勞動部對於這邊的廠商投保狀況有沒有掌握?"},{"start":6662.136,"end":6688.031,"text":"我請那個署長說明一下好謝謝委員這個是那個公路局東區養護工程分局下報商一個營造公司的勞工他準備要去去做邊坡維護的時候在路途中被那個落石殺死是屬於通勤事故這個部分那個勞保部分應該是交通部的相關的成這個合約我想問的就是他是用他是用固定雇主的勞工還是勞務承攬的部分"},{"start":6688.331,"end":6689.092,"text":"我希望勞動部能夠放寬重寬來處理好不好"},{"start":6713.167,"end":6727.175,"text":"這是大地震中很多建築工地的吊塔都有掉落的情形顯示吊塔的耐震度好像有點不足關於這個部分我想勞動部這邊有沒有什麼樣的一個具體的新的做法"},{"start":6728.114,"end":6729.294,"text":"我們之前的標準在哪裡?"},{"start":6758.069,"end":6758.369,"text":"對於這個地震我們也可以再做這個"},{"start":6773.649,"end":6790.601,"text":"這個規範的一些檢討如果這個強度不足當然就要往那拉上去我希望檢討一下啦不要因為那個掉下來實在是非常的危險所以以前的標準當然我相信都有做到那未來是不是要因應這種狀況的時候我們有沒有需要再提高一下我們的這個要求的標準謝謝委員的建議我們請業務單位來再檢討精進"},{"start":6794.386,"end":6805.475,"text":"那我再問部長我們臺美21世紀貿易倡議極有可能於今年夏天簽署第二批協定並納入消除強迫勞動的規範因為這個規範我想請問一下我們部長我們勞動部將有哪些重大的調整"},{"start":6814.664,"end":6832.047,"text":"報告委員因為我們是認為這個世紀貿易倡議它是有助於我們我國來持續建構更完整的勞動保護制度所以我們這個部分在後續的一些討論上我們有會來...你們什麼時候會有結果?這個部分因為這是那個經貿辦在主導我們配合他的進度"},{"start":6841.607,"end":6846.655,"text":"我覺得這樣啦 因為這個以後也應該會處理的部分 有時間的話先做好不好"},{"start":6847.493,"end":6873.292,"text":"我們自己先討論一下我們現在內部都有一些針對關心的議題有做一些內部的討論好那剛剛還是回到我們的今天的那個議題我們近年來因為少子化的問題我們政府積極打造友善的生育環境那本期看到這次勞動部的書面報告表示110年7月起大幅縮短申請育嬰停留留職停薪的門檻"},{"start":6875.753,"end":6894.192,"text":"以及提高津貼兩層後確實已經有助於提升勞工申請育嬰假的意願那麼針對勞動部實施育嬰假彈性放寬獲得不錯的成效我請問銓敘部對於公務人員是否會跟進為30日或以日為單位"},{"start":6897.857,"end":6915.252,"text":"目前公務人員的育嬰留職提薪他只需要被扶養者他未滿30歲都可以申請沒有那個申請的下限也就是說期間長短並沒有去限制所以他們已經沒有限制了就對了沒有限制對"},{"start":6916.533,"end":6919.215,"text":"請問這是試辦到採5日、7日為單位嘛,也可以用單日,那卻以限制3次為限,這樣的做法是為了什麼?"},{"start":6935.564,"end":6964.3,"text":"當然就是會當初的考量就是說這個考量到可能給那個事業單位他可能人力調配上的一個空間但是當然如果勞僱雙方同意的話我覺得也無妨啦如果優於我們的試辦原則也OK啦因為我們其實這一次的原則就是一個試辦性質讓他們自願來參加那你試辦到什麼時候我們原來是年底到年底是嗎到年底對"},{"start":6965.592,"end":6979.294,"text":"那我這樣講就是我們如果已經確定了那也希望說這個部分我們能夠來確實來處理那因為你分三次我覺得好像有點沒有必要吧"},{"start":6980.879,"end":7003.156,"text":"你限制三次的話對,我們其實就是這個是一個原則啦我意思是說我們試辦之後會看整個試辦的一個結果來做一些檢討也不一定一定是說照原來就是說未來的一些機制要建立也不一定是說只限制三次我就說看整個試辦的成效來作為我們未來的制度訂定的一個參選"},{"start":7005.698,"end":7035.058,"text":"最後我再問我們落實友善生育環境我們現在農保條例公交人員的保險法都已經修法取消生育給付的投保年資的限制那麼我們勞工保險條例卻仍然維持在分免早產及留產等生育給付那必須要年滿281天滿181天滿84天的規定那對勞工我覺得是非常不公平那勞動部這邊有沒有想過要修法"},{"start":7036.079,"end":7058.137,"text":"根本報告因為我們其實勞保加保的門檻比其他職域的保險它的門檻是比較低而且納保對象很多元顧主、自營作業者、移工通通是對象那如果說刪除這個加保日數的規定我們會怕說有些比如說他懷孕期間"},{"start":7059.217,"end":7060.458,"text":"這個部分是不是妥適我覺得這個部分還是要謹慎"},{"start":7076.434,"end":7077.334,"text":"接下來請王振旭委員發言"},{"start":7109.644,"end":7134.016,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請許部長王委員好部長好針對這次地震發生過程裡面其實大家都感受到非常非常的嚴重那也有很多失去家人也失去了家園因此有很多人受傷我想大家都同感不捨"},{"start":7134.881,"end":7155.095,"text":"那對於這些受到影響的國人的後盾政府應該是可以幫助提供一些援助那請問這部分勞動部有哪一些相關的措施已經啟動了嗎我們第一時間點就是4月3日當天我們就馬上啟動那個那個零工措施就是說我們針對這個"},{"start":7156.936,"end":7182.875,"text":"因為這次地震受損需要重建的家園這些民眾我們提供零工2000個我們有2000個零工機會那每個勞工他每個月的上班工作時數是最高150小時那以時薪183塊計算最高可以領到2747人的補助那另外就是當天那個後來行政院宣告"},{"start":7183.615,"end":7200.931,"text":"花蓮是災區所以針對災區的這些救保、勞保、值保的這個被保險人我們就依照災保法的規定提供他6個月的這個保險費的補助另外就是說他那天如果因為這個天災受傷"},{"start":7202.893,"end":7220.435,"text":"好那這個沒有辦法工作而且沒有領到原來的薪資給付那我們就是從他受傷當天開始我們就給他這個傷病給付所以這個都是我們已經開始啟動的OK謝謝我想勞動部這樣的作為應該對"},{"start":7221.836,"end":7247.802,"text":"這些勞動部朋友或者是他的家人會得到很大的幫助其實我們也知道有礦工有邊坡修復員剛剛也有委員提到因為他們在工作期間受遭遇不幸所以我想勞動部提供完整的協助對他們來講應該是幫助很大那也是應該勞動部該有的作為那我們也知道說勞動部其實也要這樣提供臨時工作機會來協助災區的復員"},{"start":7251.502,"end":7266.604,"text":"那這個災區本身就是有它高的風險那這一部分不知道勞工部在針對於勞工進入到相關的災區做復原的時候怎麼去確保這些人員的安全目前的積極作為又包括哪一些"},{"start":7267.361,"end":7289.281,"text":"其實他就是做一些比較簡易的清理工作不是那種說要去拆那個青島的建築物或其他危險的工沒有我們這種零工的工作都是比較簡易的然後安全的工作主要是清理家園做一些清潔的工作垃圾清運等等"},{"start":7290.061,"end":7318.161,"text":"希望他們不要再受傷或者是至少他在上班之前應該要給他們必要的訓練各縣市政府、鄉鎮公所都很有經驗他們派工都很有經驗那另外林工也有加勞保啦所以勞健保都有還有職保所以該有的保障都會在一段時間處理好這個雖然是簡易的清理工萬一受傷一樣送我們在職保的保障"},{"start":7318.781,"end":7343.387,"text":"OK,這樣非常好至少他們上工之前就知道他們是受到完整的保護的那我們還是就來談談今天的這個育嬰假的彈性化的部分那其實我們之前也知道女性經濟力是很值得繼續提升的部分那也看到還是有4個比較容易受影響的這些問題"},{"start":7345.228,"end":7361.407,"text":"這部分不知道如何能夠來完善員工的職場育兒包括對女性同仁他們在做這個經濟力付出的過程當中所受到的一些影響這部分有沒有更完善的一個職場環境的一些建構"},{"start":7363.097,"end":7379.842,"text":"對,我們其實這幾年一直在就是說針對如何能夠營造友善的生養的環境在努力啦那包括說像我們也鼓勵男性一起來參與育兒所以我們在整個這個比如說我們的那個"},{"start":7381.042,"end":7403.913,"text":"申請申請以前是只能父母親單方申請我們現在讓他可以分別或同時申請都可以遇嬰留子停薪那在這個申請的那個日數以前是要6個月以上我們現在只要滿30天就可以就短期的嬰留停也可以另外就是那個津貼的因為通常就是那個"},{"start":7405.494,"end":7424.108,"text":"經濟性是最主要的考量我們也在這個在除了原有的那個育嬰留停六成以外另外公務預算也補貼了兩成的薪資補助那這些都是希望讓這個育兒的部分能夠更優化更優化是是"},{"start":7424.528,"end":7446.493,"text":"所以才會有這個試辦企劃希望能夠有更好的可能性對那試辦企劃就是希望就是針對很多委員還有各界的一些倡議希望更彈性所以我們現在在做這樣的方向的研議就是說先職場上試辦看看那整個有一個成效之後我們再來做一個未來一個"},{"start":7448.573,"end":7469.271,"text":"整個制度要怎麼來更建構更友善朝這個方向來努力當然也更鼓勵這些我們的男性職場的同仁能夠共同分擔家庭育兒的照顧不過看起來是慢慢的在增加今天聽您的報告裡面也的確有明顯的成長"},{"start":7470.152,"end":7494.788,"text":"不過到今年年初我們看下一個畫面會知道事實上還是只有三成左右我們很期待這樣的努力可以透過部裡面的宣傳讓社會大眾尤其是在育兒家庭有更多的男性同仁可以一起來參與這部分就期待繼續來加強會持續來宣導"},{"start":7496.189,"end":7511.941,"text":"所以我們目前在積極在推動這個彈性育嬰的假期示範計畫裡面早上也有聽您報告示範的這個內容還有配套的誘因那當然目前還談不上修法期待是透過這個示範計畫以後再做相關的處理"},{"start":7515.143,"end":7540.423,"text":"那在這個報告裡面您有提到說勞動部跟所屬的各個機關也希望都能夠參與試辦那這部分不知道目前喔雖然是5月才開始嘛那有沒有瞭解看看各個單位的試辦的參與情形公部門的部分有4家的國營機構參與那本部就勞動部還有我們所屬的包含勞保局啦"},{"start":7541.444,"end":7563.372,"text":"發展署的分署我們都帶頭加入來試辦那因為本來原來是想說5月1號上路但是因為委員也認為說我們這個應該再把整個計畫讓它更完整更有誘因所以我們大概3月28也跟一些關心這個議題的民間團體也開會然後也在4月"},{"start":7566.287,"end":7595.345,"text":"4月3日及全序部相關的部會有再開過就是說開過會看如何來4月2日啦4月2日邀請全序部還有人總還有我們勞保局中央健保署那就說要研議這些配套措施看看怎麼樣來有適當的誘因所以這個部分我也交代業務單位說我們試試讓這個制度調整更完整以後再來正式上路啦這樣可能會比較好一點"},{"start":7596.225,"end":7616.3,"text":"其實公司部門如果能夠互相的激勵的話市部門也不少我們現在總共有61共包括公司部門63個單位已經表明要來參與的意願所以我們後續也會開說明會像這些民間企業的部分也要開說明會告訴他們相關的一些規範"},{"start":7617.721,"end":7641.177,"text":"因為我們上週詢問過相關部門那個時候貴單位是說因為尊重參與單位不方便提供參與名單不過今天聽部長講就覺得真的公部門如果能夠一起共同來參與而且是真的願意積極來參與的話相信對私部門來講也有很大的鼓勵或引導的作用"},{"start":7642.057,"end":7664.905,"text":"最後其實就是我們也關心國軍我們知道國軍大部分都是男性為主8乘5是屬於我們的男性的軍事官女性相對是比較少我們也看到國軍申請育嬰假的人數男性還是相對偏低其實如何能夠提高男性育嬰"},{"start":7665.845,"end":7665.885,"text":"我先從數據講"},{"start":7682.446,"end":7686.59,"text":"我們從107年到112年整個育嬰留職停薪的人員從792元有提升到112年的1738元成長幅度是217%其中男性的比例男性在107年是佔30%到了112年目前是到46%今年到目前為止這個比例也是蓋頭"},{"start":7709.332,"end":7735.598,"text":"那在這邊也無意特別去好像凸顯我們國軍很好國防部很好其他部位不好其實也未必因為他當中有一些人力結構的問題國軍畢竟是男性比較多但是就整個數量來講我們配合的相關的政策一直在宣導然後再加上我們所有的這個國軍的三安政策部隊安全軍人安心"},{"start":7736.918,"end":7737.298,"text":"現在休息10分鐘"},{"start":7776.308,"end":7777.169,"text":"拜訪委員會主席"},{"start":8387.373,"end":8388.575,"text":"現在請林淑芬委員發言。"},{"start":8404.035,"end":8417.54,"text":"部長,我們台灣有一篇論文是趙以桐小姐她的論文,她想帶尖的互助論台灣女性的提早退休。他們發現了,因為我們開過記者會,所以你有看了這個新聞的嗎?"},{"start":8419.52,"end":8446.629,"text":"看到嗎?他發現假設研究假設之外的那個女性早退的主因竟然是阿嬤要孤孫是55他發現55到64歲台灣女性一旦當上了阿嬤就業的機率就馬上由女性勞動力的土石流就下滑下降的幅度非常高到35到38%他把統計上的數字這樣看起來的確是勞動力的土石流"},{"start":8447.469,"end":8448.37,"text":"那反觀這個男生都沒有這個現象"},{"start":8463.888,"end":8469.816,"text":"我們都知道說少子化是國安危機可是也有另一項研究講說其實只要提高女性的勞參率2%就可以解決勞動力不足的現況的問題勞參率只要提升提高2%"},{"start":8479.148,"end":8491.275,"text":"那我們在這裡來看就是說那政府為什麼讓女性的勞參率這樣子生育婦女的下滑然後55歲就開始為了要夠孫那一路再繼續下滑那麼多像土石流一樣的崩毀那他們比較說"},{"start":8496.659,"end":8506.849,"text":"這樣子沒有照顧年輕女性勞工的需求一路拖累到中高齡的阿嬤要早退孤孫所以在這樣子裡面這個下滑的現象比德國低了33.7%就55到59歲的女性60到64的"},{"start":8517.499,"end":8543.537,"text":"女性比德國的勞參率低了34.4%台灣獨樹一致的到V型的女性就業曲線呈現的是女性勞動力的土石流但我要講說55到64歲是女性勞工也不只是女性勞工是所有勞工經驗最豐富然後最專業的時候體力上也最可以負擔的時候可是卻是因為要夠孫然後就提早從勞動市場裡面退出這不是很可惜嗎"},{"start":8549.783,"end":8563.799,"text":"是很可惜啊所以我們現在在想說怎麼解決這個問題就說除了當然我們也鼓勵婦女再就業當然我們要講你們自己做的調查哦雇用管理就業平等概況調查你們自己做的調查"},{"start":8565.24,"end":8587.095,"text":"發展的受雇勞工認為應放寬以日或小時使用育嬰留職停薪而且在這種狀況裏面男性的同意比例還大過女性我們都知道說利用彈性運用照顧之旅讓男女雙方輪流都可以使用所以在這個工作場所就業平等概況調查裏面顯示"},{"start":8589.036,"end":8612.003,"text":"不是只有勞工需要而且近五成的企業都同意說把育嬰留子停薪假放寬到以日或以小時這樣的彈性使用將近五成的企業同意而且企業規模越小同意比例越高這是你們自己做的調查29人以下的事業單位同意的比例高達49.5%"},{"start":8614.924,"end":8622.946,"text":"就幾乎是5成的企業主、僱主都同意30到99人的事業規模的僱主他們同意的比例也高達41%那我現在在跟你講說男性更需要更短休假的時間去分攤育兒一個維也納大學經濟學系的這個教授兩位助理教授他們在2023年6月1日發表"},{"start":8643.072,"end":8670.583,"text":"當父親休育嬰假的關鍵因素第一個是經濟誘因就我的收入替代率到底多高還有彈性彈性有多彈性這個是關鍵所以以奧地利戴新育嬰假政策的變化他們探討了休假期限的彈性還有經濟誘因對休育嬰假決定的重要性當然發現奧地利2008年引入了更短的育嬰假的選擇"},{"start":8672.464,"end":8695.055,"text":"2010年提高了假期的靈活性那同時大大提高了就是他的經濟的收入的替代率以後每一項的改革都讓男性勞工休假的比例增加10到20%然後發現再增加有心提高了育嬰假使用率可是呢實際休假的時間卻減少了"},{"start":8697.036,"end":8716.322,"text":"但是基本上我們還是認為說養孩子是男女雙方都要共同參與那現在都只有女性在使用而且使用當然不會是很高可是我們累得要死的時候男性爸爸媽媽如果你把他限縮在30天一次只能兩次沒有彈性那男性他沒有辦法放"},{"start":8717.122,"end":8717.863,"text":"對我們提的修法案請你要支持另外呢"},{"start":8734.053,"end":8759.924,"text":"我要跟你談的是臺北21世紀的貿易這個倡議第二階段要在臺北舉行然後他們那個美國的貿易代表署在4月5號大家休假的時候上網公告了他們要談判的文本摘要他就農業環境和勞工三大議題提出建議請問部長美方具體建議勞動部的部分你看了嗎有"},{"start":8761.434,"end":8764.036,"text":"臺美21世紀的貿易創意我們都很擔心說勞動議題你會不會變成至第二階段談判進展的阻礙"},{"start":8775.785,"end":8801.682,"text":"因為相較於美國貿易代表署他公告的擬議文本他講得很具體他說要要求雙邊與各自勞工法律當中採納國際公認的勞權還有保護吹哨者的規定要提出含強化移工招聘費用相關成本等的規定也希望保障遠洋移工使用Wi-Fi的權利講得很具體喔"},{"start":8803.843,"end":8827.259,"text":"第二我們本裡面還建立合作機制還有解決供應鏈中強迫勞動的問題以在這個勞工問題上進行建設性的合作包括促進數位經濟下的勞權及改善遠洋漁船的工作條件但是人家問得這麼具體我們勞動部的回應卻是回答得很空泛你們回應是說"},{"start":8829.82,"end":8837.305,"text":"勞動部份台灣以人權立國將透過美方的對話合作機制掌握國際重要的勞動規範的內容和趨勢共同面對21世紀勞動力所面臨的挑戰讓企業發展與人權這個齊步前進問部長美國講得這麼具體我們國內法規你這樣子回答"},{"start":8850.072,"end":8855.356,"text":"有針對到人家講的問題嗎?我們的國內法規難道針對他講的這麼具體沒有需要調適的計畫嗎?那21世紀的臺美貿易談判這個會不會卡在這個地方?因為呢本來啊去年的11月就應該全數都談好了"},{"start":8870.006,"end":8874.633,"text":"去年的11月本來21世紀台美這個貿易的倡議的談判本來去年年底就應該要談好可是呢談判過程不是那麼順利那每番公佈的內容還具體的講到說要提升勞動人權環境標準"},{"start":8887.25,"end":8905.523,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面我們在這裡希望你告訴我們告訴全台灣的人你要進入談判裡面你要透明的告訴大家你怎麼因應這個我們想要透明你告訴我們政府的態度是什麼你要不要在這裡跟社會大眾一併做個說明"},{"start":8908.672,"end":8924.1,"text":"這個報告委員因為這個臺美21世紀的創意的談判那麼就是經貿辦公室是主要的一個他們來主導所以談判代表人家就勞動的部分我就講勞動的部分講得這麼具體勞動的組織機關就勞動部其實就是說我們考量到說後續的這些談判還有包括創意的進程跟內容它都是屬於比較機敏的資訊所以有關的"},{"start":8935.885,"end":8954.056,"text":"激民的資訊,他在講說這個在勞工法律裡面要不要納入採納國際公認的勞犬還有保護催少者的規定要提出強化移工招聘費用相關成本的規定這哪裡激民然後講說這個要不要解決供應面下的強迫勞動的問題這哪裡激民"},{"start":8957.171,"end":8982.022,"text":"我是說這些議題的談判的內容包括我們的可能我們未來的一些對應的這些可能的我覺得你們是人家實問你虛答然後我在這裡也是實問你也是虛答我要跟你講這事情已經很嚴重了嚴重到這個去年有一個外交家的雜誌你知道吧關於你們"},{"start":8984.051,"end":9010.59,"text":"關於台灣的勞動有一篇去年10月31日發布了深度的報導就是Debt還有Boundage in Space and Taiwan這一篇報導我們如果沒有看到的話風傳媒有給它改標叫做外交家雜誌說台灣製造等於強迫勞動製造問號是不是在台灣的移工每年至少遭仲介剝削上百億"},{"start":9012.011,"end":9031.181,"text":"這個東西外交家的答案是說臺灣製造當然不等於強迫勞動製造但是他還是有很多的疑問他甚至指出了幾家的供應鏈外交家裡面點出華碩子公司、雅緒、六合機械等等還有永德電子"},{"start":9031.781,"end":9046.327,"text":"包括 SpaceX SpaceX的這個下供應鏈6盒機械他還被這個我記得是福特車廠吧福特安通用汽車看到這篇報導以後大家都有壓力所以他們承諾說要採行這個"},{"start":9050.129,"end":9067.442,"text":"因為這兩家車廠是RBA的成員要公開承諾零付費政策福特回應說他要調查這件事要請求獨立第三方進行審查連工商促進會的林博鋒他們現在都要要求政府擔起扛起移工的責任要國對國的這個引進"},{"start":9071.463,"end":9079.329,"text":"為什麼要國對國包括你們長期以來對私人財團、大財團、大製造業也都專案的幫他們國對國的引聘引進這個國對國的聘用這樣子為什麼需要這樣子因為走到家RBA這篇雜誌裡面講到說偽創和合作本身他們已經不容忍供應鏈中存在強迫勞動"},{"start":9101.867,"end":9109.014,"text":"我的意思是說火已經燒到燃眉之急了不是你在這裡蓄意偉儀就可以的"},{"start":9110.749,"end":9138.796,"text":"報告委員 這個相關的議題我們內部都討論我們也有跟去年也有到美國跟美方有做一些說明跟澄清那後續的談判我們也會跟經貿辦公室這邊都有不定時的會議在針對相關的你說你去做說明跟澄清它4月5日前兩天而已前三天而已它在台美21世紀貿易創意的談判裡面它擬議的文本就是這樣子寫了啊"},{"start":9140.316,"end":9151.691,"text":"你去曾經沒有用因為有一些連甚至連合法性的他們都認為這個法律是不符合ILO的所謂的規範的嘛ILO的11項的強迫勞動指標他認為我們法律裡面的法律都有問題"},{"start":9161.027,"end":9167.229,"text":"而且我覺得你對我們實在是很不夠尊重為什麼呢?112年7月26日我們立法院在審議台美貿易倡議之間的這個協定當時立法院通過了一個附帶決議附帶決議的內容有些"},{"start":9177.632,"end":9202.7,"text":"這立法院的決議喔上面有寫美國長期關注臺灣外籍漁工勞動條件與人權問題臺美貿易協議中也將勞動條件作為重點之一請評估我國勞動基礎法是否符合ILO的這個勞動基準為其勞動法規符合國際核心勞動基準以及順利推動臺美貿易協定請行政院在3個月內邀請專家學者民間團體進行延長盤點其實你們"},{"start":9207.341,"end":9215.067,"text":"有沒有盤點你們回覆我們說你們開了核心勞動公約法規檢視會議一共有三場結果你的檢視會議第一場第一場"},{"start":9218.488,"end":9244.166,"text":"會議的記錄上面寫第一場有提到離清現有法律是否規範不足或規範與執行有落差但是你們沒有提出未來因應的做法案預定時程第二場和第三場的會議記錄更看不出來檢視會議到底認為現行勞動法律是否有符合核心勞動公約而且你的討論事項跟決議事項答非所問要不然就是推給行政院移工人權小組會議再行討論"},{"start":9246.408,"end":9259.785,"text":"我們今天要講說你在裡面有討論你們的會議是這樣討論的有人會議上是說討論建外僱用的遠洋漁業工作者現有法治規範在消除強迫勞動上是否足夠"},{"start":9261.267,"end":9286.605,"text":"結果你們的會議內容記錄強調農委會執行漁業與人權行動計劃的主則勞動部也是執行單位請各業管單位依據該計劃配合辦理這你的意思是說農業部的事跟你無關的你也沒想到檢討自己的法規是不是有問題然後上面就跟你們有關的家事移工、建築物移工是否應適用勞基法的規定"},{"start":9287.525,"end":9300.671,"text":"是否消除藍嶺外籍移工禁止轉換雇主的限制這是你們的會議裡面提案討論議題結果你們會議內容是寫相關議題可以在移工人權小組會議上再討論所以你們把這個會議把這個法規的檢視有沒有合理有沒有執行面的問題你們都丟給行政院移工人權小組"},{"start":9311.095,"end":9327.29,"text":"所以我現在要說的是 你這樣這三天就續委了立法院 立法院跟你說你去年的決議是說你要去看一下有沒有問題喔 這個我們這個附帶決議要求你要檢視所有的法律喔"},{"start":9328.511,"end":9333.793,"text":"結果你在講說那是農業部的事那個是等到行政院移工人權小組在討論跟我們都無關這個對立法院也須有違遺啦老實說你不會說跟我們都無關啦你的會議紀錄就是這樣寫啊那意思就是跟你們無關啊那這樣子就可以送到立法院你去年就送到立法院說我檢視過了答案兩個農業部的事然後這個交給移工人權小組處理"},{"start":9354.5,"end":9357.944,"text":"然後跟我們都無關了你的答覆就是這樣好最後再講我現在講說這個事情為什麼是燃眉知己因為這個臺美21世紀貿易創意的協議談判已經要進行了那美國勞工部在2020和2022年"},{"start":9370.279,"end":9372.5,"text":"曾經兩度將台灣遠洋漁業列入同工及強迫勞動的製品清單美國的國家海洋及大氣總署在2021和2023年兩次國際漁業管理改善報告先後將台灣列為非法漁業強迫勞動國家"},{"start":9387.167,"end":9398.043,"text":"2023年的美國勞動部再一次國際事務助理副部長他更明確地向臺灣民間團體表示支持臺美貿易協定中納入保障漁工勞權禁止這個進口強迫勞動製品的條款"},{"start":9401.548,"end":9418.69,"text":"所以我們在想說你到底準備好了要去談判了嗎你要去談判的說我們這個是移工人選小組的討論的事情農業部的事情跟我都無關人家在這裡把重點放在說就勞工環境上我們具體要討論這個我不曉得你們的回應是"},{"start":9419.531,"end":9447.029,"text":"要怎麼回答?你的回答是這樣,實問虛答啦。是不是可以請林委員等一下請互惠,就是要請那個勞動部這邊,會後再向委員這邊補充說明。可以啦,但是就是說這個事情是很嚴重的。我們知識體大啦,我們連那個外交家的雜誌都這樣子寫了,還點名企業,企業每一個一個被點名的時候,他們的壓力就來。那我們不能靠著國際組織這樣點名我們的企業啊。"},{"start":9449.791,"end":9459.52,"text":"國家難道都不用有作為嗎?企業不用你作為他現在已知道要緊張了所以他們也知道零付費零復工的這個政策所以你們可以服務財團你們可以服務大企業說我幫你們專案國對國引進可是那你為什麼不能夠對一般個人的或小老百姓的或小中小企業主也提供這種國對國引進的模式"},{"start":9475.894,"end":9475.914,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":9503.368,"end":9527.836,"text":"部長會後再向林委員補充說明接下來請鄭天才委員發言主席各位委員有請部長請許部長政委好部長好"},{"start":9529.367,"end":9550.027,"text":"這次零四零三大地震花蓮的災情非常的慘重這次我們勞動部還是依照過去的往例就針對災後重建工作啟動天災臨宮的一個措施"},{"start":9555.114,"end":9567.726,"text":"當然這個作業要點定很久了這個相關的規定都是比較照屬於往例的那個部分那現在就是說因為這一次"},{"start":9570.511,"end":9593.713,"text":"地震的時間正好連假連續假期所以你們原來的一個相關的這些規定24小時內要呈報本部然後48小時內要洽向正式公手那因為正好都是連假"},{"start":9594.38,"end":9609.707,"text":"都已經 都按照這個規定 我們都沒放假 報告委員 我說你們沒有放假啦 但是有一些鄉鎮公所有放假 這個部分是 這個 這個 我們有聯繫啦 我們會持續聯繫 對我知道這是事實 因為我都在災區啦 OK"},{"start":9610.407,"end":9612.209,"text":"當然這個未來是不是需要再檢討還是要去考量"},{"start":9638.601,"end":9659.353,"text":"那另外就是說這個勞工有的在工作期間發生了這個症災無論是他這個死亡或是受傷都有都有所以除了這些這個之外你們當然都會提到這個跟這個"},{"start":9663.113,"end":9666.216,"text":"我們提供6個月的保險費的補助"},{"start":9684.87,"end":9697.361,"text":"然後另外他如果因為這些災害受傷我們就是從他因為這樣不能工作而且沒有薪資那我們就是從他受傷那一天開始就可以請領傷病給付"},{"start":9699.178,"end":9699.538,"text":"好,那今天的議題"},{"start":9723.242,"end":9731.629,"text":"這個一因留職停薪的津貼這個相關的規定都有那你們的報告裡面也提到這個"},{"start":9734.875,"end":9762.072,"text":"到去年12月子叫修法前同期申請嬰留職停薪的人數女性增加了11%男性增加61%這個數字是尤其是男性增加很多但是我是希望能夠提供什麼數字呢就是說跟現在的嬰兒出生率"},{"start":9763.561,"end":9772.411,"text":"的人數跟申請彈性育嬰的人數,留職停薪的人數有嗎?現在有這個數據,好請說。我們女性,女生,對。"},{"start":9783.272,"end":9795.928,"text":"大聲一點有領勞保的生意給付的人後續有在領育嬰留值停薪津貼的比例在去年112年是80.41%男性呢?"},{"start":9801.243,"end":9823.376,"text":"男性因為男性沒有領生意幾戶他不能領生意幾戶所以你的人數就還是可以做算比例啊男性增加61%就表示有人數嘛申請育嬰留子平薪的然後跟我們的那個整個出生的人數做比較"},{"start":9824.208,"end":9848.522,"text":"那個61%是在110年7月1號以前跟以後做比較對我知道我知道可是我要的不是這個對好我要我要接氣好為什麼要這個東西啊好我接氣談重點哈這個勞動部最清楚現在切工嘛對不對切工很嚴重"},{"start":9849.775,"end":9877.961,"text":"對不對那我們的政策怎麼樣去因應這個台灣切工嚴重的事實除了因應留留職停薪繼續推動是不是怎麼樣在這個這個嬰兒還是要照顧啊但是切工啊我們鼓勵他上工但是他的那個很能夠非常"},{"start":9879.397,"end":9903.061,"text":"安心的有托嬰的地方 勞動部就必須跟衛福部去協調托嬰 然後他那個很放心的托嬰 我那個年代我們夫妻一樣都上班了 而且是遠離我在台灣省政府上班了"},{"start":9904.167,"end":9905.248,"text":"他還可以正常的工作"},{"start":9932.981,"end":9933.222,"text":"發言委員"},{"start":9934.454,"end":9959.591,"text":"報告委員的確就是說如何有讓這個生養的環境更優化除了說我們這些措施鼓勵父母親都一起來育兒以外那其實托嬰托兒的措施也很重要如果這個能夠完善的話也可以讓這個父母親能夠蓄留職場所以有這方面的協助的話他如果有托嬰很好的環境的話他就願意托嬰對所以你們要跟衛福部共同的合作"},{"start":9964.934,"end":9965.675,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請許部長"},{"start":9997.564,"end":10021.243,"text":"議員好部長好今天的題目是叫做試辦育嬰彈性假及提高男性申請留職停薪我看了一下其實幼嬰真的還是不夠請教一下部長過去這三年從110、111、112男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例大概是多少嗎"},{"start":10023.552,"end":10037.728,"text":"大概增加了不是增加啦因為你們之前的接受低啦申請的百分之25啦大概都是25%過去三年大概男性申請這個留職停薪的比例大概都只有四分之一的25%左右而已啦"},{"start":10039.332,"end":10059.241,"text":"以前只有17最近有增加25還是很低啊我們希望說就是這個爸媽都能夠來照顧小孩那你知道為什麼這個男性申請這個留職天性的比例比較低嗎可能第一個經濟藝術的考量還有升遷啦職場的這個這個"},{"start":10062.972,"end":10064.754,"text":"那再請教一下部長"},{"start":10089.634,"end":10118.074,"text":"就是說你現在這個試辦本來是這個一個月那現在試辦是5天到7天彈性的這個育嬰假然後你說這個單天更歡迎是不是單天更歡迎你這個齁都是道德勸說啦實際上齁這個如果說沒有這個誘因來講的話這一般的企業齁這個很難很難會用單天來算那5到7天也是試辦而已啊對不對那我先問一下這個5到7天試辦是5月開始嘛"},{"start":10119.582,"end":10139,"text":"報告委員本來原定5月啦但是因為有很多委員認為說我們這個要再不是叫我們配套要更完整所以我可能會稍微再延後一些被延後喔對會再收集意見那延後大概是哪個時候因為我們在收集積極收集意見當中收集讓整個總是要有個期限啊"},{"start":10140.654,"end":10167.788,"text":"我看最慢最慢就是6月吧6月最慢最慢就展演一個月展演一個月到6月因為我們在收集意見因為主要是為什麼用示範因為經濟部、國安會今天也都在因為他們也反映說僱主可能有一些困難不過我們現在這個示範出去現在我請教一下這個你有發函就是說給我們這一個公部門嘛公部門現在有回應的情況怎麼樣有現在就是那個我記得"},{"start":10169.476,"end":10178.466,"text":"4家國營事業的機構有哪4家才4家國營才4家而已喔臺電流水都有"},{"start":10179.432,"end":10184.577,"text":"我們全部現在報名的是63家．表達有意願的那我是說公部門部分國藝事業就是目前有四家國藝所以63家裡面才四家是公部門"},{"start":10203.719,"end":10222.165,"text":"包括我們勞動部啊 勞動部自己還有包括我們所屬像勞保局啦發展署啦都是只有勞動部的系統而已喔我們還在所以你看連我們自己公部門都不買單了我們發言出去錄序啦我是說現在到目前為止回復的還要繼續他們我們在鼓勵"},{"start":10224.366,"end":10229.309,"text":"所以你看這油電糖水市加公營事業這個要來示範而已那其他的是怎樣是你們有給他們問卷調查但是回覆都沒有意願嗎我們就是有發函給他們邀請他們能夠那問題是出在哪裡那為什麼這些我們所有這麼多的公營事業這個沒有共襄盛舉這個是很大的問題"},{"start":10252.877,"end":10278.189,"text":"我們其實也鼓勵像經濟部、交通部、衛福部所屬的這些機構能夠一起來參與有這麼多如果我們公家機關都不能帶頭做示範作用的話對於民間企業來講報告委員因為我們這3月15日發函那目前這個回復陸陸續續在回復啦不是說現在63家後面就沒有了是啊那我在聽那個比例公家機關太少了啊"},{"start":10278.877,"end":10304.38,"text":"我們還是持續在鼓勵你們這個我認為我們公民家機關真的要做示範作用如果你如果說我們公民家機關供應事業不做示範作用的話你如何叫民間企業來做啊所以我看到這個我是覺得公部門跟國營事業其實應該要帶頭做起對啊所以我看到這個成績其實我也你這樣講我嚇一跳怎麼比例這麼低其實我也不滿意啦不過我們3月15日發函到現在還不到一個月"},{"start":10305.2,"end":10310.103,"text":"陸陸續續再回復啦第二個我再請教一下這個我們賴清德總統當選人他在這個參選的時候提到說0到6歲國家一起養2.0其中有一個是說這個彈性的育嬰假制度納到0到6歲但是我們現在這個育嬰假是不是在3歲前"},{"start":10326.334,"end":10327.815,"text":"能夠申請﹖育嬰留停﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對﹖對�"},{"start":10355.983,"end":10383.095,"text":"報告委所以我們現在就是說先示範齁那包括說這個示範這兩個是不一樣的你們是示範是於就是說本來是一個月現在可以變五天到七天年齡放寬這可以討論啦放寬年齡啦對然後這個就是牽涉到修法當然牽涉到修法牽涉到裁員還有牽涉到企業的人你們有沒有做過這個相關這個相關那個思考就是說如果放寬到0到6歲有沒有去思考過這個方向"},{"start":10384.135,"end":10408.36,"text":"一直有在做這樣的討論嗎?現在就是說我看我們的總統當選人是希望說這個國家一起養那其實從零到三歲放寬到六歲我相信這個方向是一致的啦如果說我的意思是說不要說只有留這個只有在停留在討論這個階段有沒有比較具體的做法啦你們有沒有想要推動啦"},{"start":10409.588,"end":10436.263,"text":"目前就是在演繹當中啊演繹當中是有想要推動說至少到6歲嗎我覺得這個方向是可以來演繹啦好啦希望你們積極一點啦因為這個是總統當選人他的政見啦我們都是一體的啦希望朝這個方向來做好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝李昆城委員接下來請現在先做以下宣告等一下在楊瓊英委員質詢結束處理臨時提案"},{"start":10438.735,"end":10440.477,"text":"現在請牛許庭委員發言。好,謝謝主席。勞動部長有請。請許部長。"},{"start":10461.189,"end":10477.735,"text":"今天我們討論如何促進男性育嬰留停的比例當然根據你們的報告民國110年之後做了政策的調整改成最低30天就可以經過申請歡迎支持降低門檻那看起來數字上有一些的成果"},{"start":10479.355,"end":10505.171,"text":"按照勞動部統計男性的比例在110年之後有部分的成長但是這個部分的成長好像後來就停滯不前了因為你看110年到121年有成長可是121年到112年他就沒有成長對不對那按照113年1月的這個數字資料的話按照比例來講好像跟112年跟121年的比例也沒有差很多那好像政策遇到瓶頸了還有說明一下出生人口"},{"start":10506.26,"end":10508.022,"text":"請問勞動部有任何措施去突破這個瓶頸嗎"},{"start":10527.618,"end":10541.508,"text":"報告委員因為那個出生率掉蠻多的齁從13萬多掉到12萬多啦齁即便出生率下降男女之間的比例依然很懸殊吧對不對你看一下比例的數字是不是一樣是1比3接近到1比4"},{"start":10542.773,"end":10544.074,"text":"我講遇到瓶頸的意思就是說他的成長率慢下來了嘛 對不對"},{"start":10560.441,"end":10566.666,"text":"你們覺得沒有問題嗎?還是說還有別的政策方式可以促進這樣的數字?所以你們針對這樣數字的一個貧險的狀況是講說彈性還不夠大所以才有了今天的專案報告是嗎?"},{"start":10583.937,"end":10609.452,"text":"也不是,我們是認為說這個是逐步嘛當初是從6個月降到短期30天那包括很多朝野委員都在倡議說希望可以再更完善一點對,所以我們其實是一步一步來啦因為也怕對那個企業的人力的調配上會產生困難因為我們大概有97%的都是中小企業30人以下還有微型企業,等一下我們再探討這個問題5人以下占了80%所以我已經去考"},{"start":10612.894,"end":10639.315,"text":"我再請你看第二張圖表今天的第二張圖表當然就講的是公部門剛剛部長在回答其他委員詢問的時候也有講說公部門還有相關的這些事業機關附屬單位應該要起一個帶頭的作用但是這個數字基本上跟你前一張也就是這個勞動部的統計其實在比例上來講是很類似的看起來公部門好像沒有起到什麼帶頭作用部長有沒有什麼話要說我們剛剛是在講說那個育嬰留停育嬰留停的事辦剛剛委員"},{"start":10642.677,"end":10664.291,"text":"事辦你要起帶頭作用相對來講在政策落地的過程你也要起帶頭作用如果我們公部門這部分先沒有辦法說我透過哪些的方式宣導等等社會教育也好薪資這個問題解決掉也好或者是避免掉這個升遷考機的問題你公部門也要做事辦嘛那照理來講公部門基於法規執行的一體性照理來講應該是不會有"},{"start":10665.572,"end":10667.494,"text":"但即便如此好像這個比例還是差不多對不對是不是我們在帶頭作用的方面也遇到了瓶頸呢"},{"start":10686.263,"end":10689.485,"text":"為什麼到最後好像就卡在1比3、1比4左右這樣的比例?"},{"start":10709.437,"end":10737.837,"text":"以你們的了解你們有沒有去探詢過學者專家的意見啊以及等等剛剛齁其實剛剛全局部這邊有講到師長齁有講到說其實他們的是等於裁員的部分齁幾副的裁員啦來補充一下沒有關係啊是有這方面會遇到跟我們報告一下齁那個公部門公務人員這一塊從107人107人大概那個彈性留停的比例大概12%左右對"},{"start":10738.658,"end":10762.464,"text":"那到那個112年已經到18%就是說就男性本身大概成長50%啦那就男女性的那個占比是從這些剛剛都講過了我的意思是說110到11有成長這個我們拍拍手可是11到12那比例沒有變太多那個應該就是少子化降下來的就是說生意的人口已經變少了變少了"},{"start":10763.204,"end":10763.844,"text":"我要請勞動部去做調查"},{"start":10789.853,"end":10816.031,"text":"你們照理來講應該跟很多的學者專家跟很多等等有一些聯繫這個除了我們剛剛講的一個為什麼遇到瓶頸需要更明確的說法之外第二個本席擔心的是我們會不會因為一直把門檻降低把彈性增加你反而回過頭來壓縮了女性啊育嬰留停的長度也就是說現在僱主講啊反正你老公也可以請啊對那你就不要請這麼久有沒有這樣的狀況你們有沒有針對這個可能的問題去做研究調查部長"},{"start":10819.206,"end":10836.08,"text":"這個我們再進一步來瞭解看看這個你進一步來瞭解好不好然後本期在最後一點時間做一點政策建議啦我們現在都看的都是講法規面假期怎麼來做設定這當然很好但我提醒我們要有點科技的概念疫情之後給全世界最大的啟示就是工作不一定要進辦公室啊"},{"start":10837.021,"end":10862.215,"text":"遠距工作的實際應用是什麼我們的政府機關有沒有比如說你講公部門可不可以帶頭示範我公部門在處理這個在請育嬰留停的時候我用遠距工作的方式走出一套新的辦法我如何鼓勵願意試辦遠距工作來在這個中間中找到平衡也可以讓這個東西政策的時候有沒有一些鼓勵的措施我先講私部門其實私部門他們只要牢固雙方有講好就可以了公部門好像已經有了"},{"start":10862.805,"end":10881.142,"text":"官部門我們在那個疫情期間其實都有一直在示範現在各機關其實很多都可以對他的資訊系統有辦法對阿我現在要的就是說你把這個東西跟育嬰留停的概念結合嘛如果育兒需求相對來講那時候那他可能不需要走留停嘛又做遠距工作可不可以他是不是就解決了薪資的落差的問題"},{"start":10881.823,"end":10882.664,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員現在處理臨時提案"},{"start":10912.438,"end":10912.558,"text":"楊瓊英委員"},{"start":10938.24,"end":10951.471,"text":"目的是希望說去因為很多委員 常委員的建議讓我們的育兒的這個生養環境能夠更友善他們希望說現在那重新吧"},{"start":10956.134,"end":10971.699,"text":"主席,謝謝,謝謝主席,楊卿發言部長,我們要試辦以日為單位的育嬰留停方案,是不是?那你希望的是什麼呢?"},{"start":10972.579,"end":10992.349,"text":"我們希望藉由這樣的一個示範去瞭解說現在食物的職場上他們如果這樣推動的話有什麼困難那會不會增加男性育嬰這個留停的比例也希望提升對這個很重要嘛對這很重要讓我們直接討論"},{"start":10995.43,"end":11006.542,"text":"那本期要請教你說剛剛說了你們從3月份開始跟相關單位那目前為止經濟部、交通部、衛福部、勞動部這些會配合你嗎?是不是?"},{"start":11007.874,"end":11016.379,"text":"經濟部有,我們有邀請他們,希望他們國部門能夠,現在有經濟部的國醫事業,經濟部的國醫事業有4家來,然後衛福部有一個醫院,然後我們勞動部本身,勞動部還沒回復,所以目前政府部門就是這3個嘛,經濟部、衛福部、勞動部,人家怎麼不理你呢?"},{"start":11036.809,"end":11040.051,"text":"你現在講的這麼保守我可以給你一個註解你要試辦這個你沒有充分去做功課"},{"start":11060.262,"end":11078.841,"text":"就像剛剛委員在談的你雞同鴨講他講的是比例問題你跟他講的是數量問題我希望本席待會所問的你不要雞同鴨講的回答好不好因為時間很寶貴那所以本席要請教我們現在是規劃不少於5天的育嬰留子停薪嗎是不是"},{"start":11079.381,"end":11096.291,"text":"是,但是如果更短我們也認為更好啦更短也可以就五天以下的因為這個就是一個原則啦五天以下的,好來那現在民間企業你們有方案給他們有沒有民間企業有願意要加入的有有有,我們現在全部都"},{"start":11097.54,"end":11098.461,"text":"我今天是老闆吶"},{"start":11115.342,"end":11132.887,"text":"你給我什麼幼嬰請教你讓我這麼做你給我什麼幼嬰請做說明請做說明你的幼嬰是什麼我們的幼嬰現在在討論當中你告訴我現在你的幼嬰是什麼你育假事辦呢還在研議當中因為我們在爭取大家的意見還在研議當中"},{"start":11136.508,"end":11152.8,"text":"你的憂鬱是什麼?你告訴我!他比如說勞健保的這些比如說他可以免除這個勞保的負擔的健保的負擔的這個都還在啦那是不是還有其他憂鬱我們其實4月2日才找相關的部會有做一些討論"},{"start":11153.601,"end":11178.03,"text":"你預計什麼時候可以告訴我們你要希望企業也跟你一起大家來加油那你要提供什麼樣的鼓勵方式你的誘因讓不管是國藝事業單位、行政部門以及我們企業界可以加入你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾你現在在研議沒關係你研議你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾"},{"start":11180.393,"end":11184.119,"text":"因為現在持續在跟...你告訴我一個時間點好不好時間點你告訴我們時間點應該大概"},{"start":11196.596,"end":11211.728,"text":"所以換句話說你在5月底以前會告訴社會大眾你的鼓勵、獎勵、措施、你的誘因是什麼會告訴社會大眾是不是?是不是?5月底"},{"start":11212.088,"end":11235.053,"text":"是不是?好,因為你做任何的一個不管試辦還是偵測都是有一定的你的目標嘛,你的繳成怎麼做嘛好,我們現在可以確認一件事情五月底以前勞動部將試辦以日為單位的育嬰停留方案會在五月底以前告訴社會大眾那麼我們的政府獎勵是什麼?優因是什麼?是不是如此?是"},{"start":11236.173,"end":11252.358,"text":"來接下來我們拭目以待接下來本席要請教我們的目標既然男性的育嬰停留的比例也希望在這個以日為基準換句話說很多人怕說我如果留職停薪了我回來回不來了沒有辦法物質"},{"start":11253.078,"end":11280.561,"text":"或者是我的職務已經被調整的或者是有任何對他不利的方式讓他去復職的這個條件減低了所以在這樣的情況之下我們也想盡了一切辦法但是我們看到日本日本他除了鼓勵女性能夠這個女力他們努力的推動女力鼓勵女性進入職場之外對男性他這個育嬰留職他也非常的重視"},{"start":11281.261,"end":11307.367,"text":"所以他們把育嬰假可以分開來申請就跟你試辦這個日的意思一樣你如果一個月當然回來可能有很多回不來了所以沒有辦法去落實所以日本他也開始分開來申請而且他還放寬育嬰假的申請次數日本他由原先的兩次到四次由三歲到八歲"},{"start":11308.547,"end":11315.055,"text":"那我們呢?我們有沒有做調整?不是未來啊!這個日本已經在執行了部長!我希望我們在這邊討論時可以聽到你的方案!不是未來!你的未來是多久?你的未來你比我遲!"},{"start":11325.888,"end":11340.379,"text":"我們用示範的方式就已經這麼緊張了你未來所以換句話說日本目前我們要找出方案我們要找出一個適合台灣的模式請教請教當然啦全世界各國來比較嘛那請教日本這個方式你有參考嗎"},{"start":11341.909,"end":11345.451,"text":"我們會來參考各國不只日本各國的彈性的方式我們都會來參考所以本期要告訴你為什麼會提出這個呢不是他們不願意請育嬰假而是不敢請"},{"start":11358.238,"end":11384.63,"text":"很多人擔心我請了之後我能不能順利的復職或者是變相的被解聘影響後續的仕途這些的因素都必須在我們整個配套措施裡頭來做討論對不對拿世界各國不管是日本其他國家對於我們有利的而且他們成效好的可以拿出來做檢討嗎是不是如此是不是會朝這樣子的一個方向"},{"start":11385.45,"end":11404.864,"text":"最後一個議題我告訴你女性的勞動參與率目前只有51%51%那女性都很努力在做為什麼她的勞動率只有51%我特別給你點出一個年齡級據55歲到64歲的女性一旦當了阿嬤她就業率就下降你有沒有發現到這個問題有有齁為什麼"},{"start":11408.325,"end":11422.913,"text":"要照顧啊 要照顧誰 孫娜 照顧孫娜 欸這一點你答對了齁 你答對了齁 也就是55到64歲的台灣女性一旦當了阿嬤就越機率就越下降 下降多少 下降多少 下降35到38%"},{"start":11425.47,"end":11432.058,"text":"所以表示什麼阿嬤要教過孫那連帶牽動的把55到64歲我們法定是65歲退休55到64歲這個正有經驗那他就"},{"start":11440.011,"end":11452.377,"text":"他就離職所以我們的勞動力會受影響所以在這樣的情況之下剛剛本席提出我們現在是3歲有沒有考慮把它延長日本是延長到8歲那這個親子假並我們的育嬰假合併去討論"},{"start":11459.361,"end":11462.764,"text":"我們都在考量當中,這相關的,其實顧老顧小,相關的還有哪些配套,這個包括話說我們有可能有機會,現在全世界都延後,我們有可能有機會從3歲延後,日本是到8歲,有的國家到6歲,我們有機會去延後嗎?是不是?"},{"start":11480.64,"end":11499.48,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":11499.8,"end":11525.86,"text":"親子津貼跟育嬰留子津貼的這個部分可以去合併去討論好不好我們希望有一個好的方向而且將3歲來延後好不好不管是德國的歐洲地區的6歲或者是日本的8歲我們朝這個方向去討論好不好延後延後是會確認嘛對不對因為你的家長關心啊我們會再討論但我跟委員說就是往這個方向往這個方向好謝謝"},{"start":11529.138,"end":11555.215,"text":"好謝謝楊瓊英委員現在開始處理臨時提案總共有4案請一併宣讀臨時提案第一案有鑑於勞動部當前所辦理之增加第6日第7日產檢價值薪資補助及加擠二成育嬰留職停薪資投保薪資補助二項作業其裁員乃來自113年度便將終止的行政院我國少子女化對策計劃專案"},{"start":11557.716,"end":11574.742,"text":"專案經費規劃．原限期於2週內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交勞動部114年度辦理增加第6日第7日產檢加資薪資補助及加擠二成育嬰留職停薪資投保薪資補助作業之經費籌措規劃書面報告"},{"start":11577.563,"end":11586.166,"text":"提案人委員陳金輝、陳昭芝、王育敏、邱振軍、楊瓊英第二案有鑑於勞動部規劃於113年度借中央基金預算執行2150萬元經費借以辦理行政院我國少子女化對策計劃專案內之提升雇主辦理托兒設施或措施意願分工作業然而勞動部對該專案作業在112年度之執行金額便達2600萬元"},{"start":11606.033,"end":11612.856,"text":"原要求勞動部現起於二周內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交檢討說明及擴大辦理事項業務資源之規劃報告提案人委員陳金輝、陳昭芝、王育敏、邱振軍、楊瓊英第三案有鑑於行政院課證辦理107至113年"},{"start":11625.382,"end":11645.635,"text":"共7年期的我國少子女化對策計劃專案作業．並按該專案中友善職場的育兒措施．彈性工作時間規定之機關工作分配下．113年度對勞動部乃責成有執行性別平等工作法研修之法制作業任務．原此考量該法制作業允移"},{"start":11647.257,"end":11663.91,"text":"積極辦理並應向外界示意今年度的期程安排特要求現期於二周內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交勞動部辦理113年度我國少子女化對策計畫之法制研修作業期程規劃書面報告提案人委員陳金輝、陳昭芝、王育敏、邱振軍、楊瓊英第4案"},{"start":11669.454,"end":11688.369,"text":"近年我國出生人口屢創新低2023年僅剩13.5萬名新生兒政策思考如何讓家長有更多機會兼顧職場和照顧小孩才是解決低生育率的根本指導原此要求勞動部、銓敘部、行政院人事行政總處應緊速研議增加彈性育嬰假"},{"start":11690.951,"end":11709.585,"text":"推動可按日或小時申請的親職假或稱彈性育嬰假並放寬請領子女年齡之限制以實現職場和家庭內的性別平等提案人委員黃秀芳、林月琴、王振旭宣讀完畢好那請問第一案行政單位有沒有意見"},{"start":11716.568,"end":11735.141,"text":"報告主席各位委員那第一案的部分是剛剛有跟委員辦公室那邊溝通是希望可不可以改成三週內可以嗎?好好好那就照文字修正通過好那接下來第二案請行政單位有沒有意見"},{"start":11736.767,"end":11757.561,"text":"跟委員報告就是因為我們委員關心契托的部分讓我們也非常重視在113年度救安基金有編列2902萬但是因為跟少子女化的一些對車的版本內容有一些不一樣的情形所以我們是不是做一些文字修正"},{"start":11758.802,"end":11782.115,"text":"我來念一下,可以嗎?好,可以請您念我們修正完畢的新版文字。好,修正的臨時提案第二案修正為有鑑於勞動部乃規劃於113年度藉救安基金預算執行2902萬元經費藉以辦理行政院我國少子女化對策計劃專案內之鼓勵民間企業參與托育服務"},{"start":11786.638,"end":11796.27,"text":"提升僱主辦理托兒設施或措施意願分工作業為根據我國少子女化對策計劃112年8月修訂版本內容顯示該作業之預算數僅編列2150萬元"},{"start":11804.801,"end":11828.234,"text":"原要求勞動部限期於兩週內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交未來精進鼓勵民間企業參與托育業務資源之規劃報告並與教育部檢討改進少子女化對策計畫內容與預算實際編列不一致情形以上"},{"start":11829.854,"end":11851.403,"text":"請問委員有沒有意見?同意。好,那就照文字修正通過。謝謝委員。好,那第3案?報告委員,那第3案剛剛跟委員辦公室這邊溝通,同意是改成3週。是。那請問委員?同意。好,那就照文字修正通過。第4案?"},{"start":11852.846,"end":11871.92,"text":"報告委員這個性別平等工作法他的相關的這些規定適用的部分包括軍公教所以我們建議是不是可以在這邊的話要求研擬你的單位裡面可以在勞動部後面增加教育部和國防部兩個單位"},{"start":11873.817,"end":11884.22,"text":"好同意那就照文字修正通過謝謝委員那所有的事案和臨時提案全部處理完畢接下來請李彥秀委員發言請許部長請許部長"},{"start":11900.882,"end":11927.382,"text":"李委員好 希望這個不是最後這一兩個月跟你打詢但是女性的勞動部部長無論您在位的時間有多久我還是希望過去我們長期關注的某一些議題包括廠價的延長、育嬰留職停薪我覺得我們都應該留下一些東西我相信你跟我應該都有同感那今天招委排這個議題特別好特別是"},{"start":11927.902,"end":11954.819,"text":"前兩天上一週也是4月4號兒童節我們都非常清楚知道父母扮演的角色在兒童的成長過程當中是不一樣的包括有數據研究都顯示說爸爸的陪伴包括孩子在控制自己的情緒衝動還有認知學習能力對孩子都有幫助這是父母這是爸爸的角色但媽媽的更不用講我想我們大家都非常清楚好那我就看到你的書面報告當中"},{"start":11957.04,"end":11975.736,"text":"有幾個數據就是在110年7月止到113年2月止你的書面報告有提到說我們育嬰留職停薪好像成果成效還不錯我們看到數據裡面但是我看就是111年跟112年看起來都有大概從19.70110年到111年增加到25.25"},{"start":11985.684,"end":12007.97,"text":"女性略為減少一些那其實這個最主要的幾個原因是我們111跟112年我們有提出兩個還不錯的政策就是我們把育嬰留職停薪從6個月至少每在6個月我們放寬到30天另外一個就是我們的經濟支持就是我們的薪資替代率可達到八成"},{"start":12010.911,"end":12018.515,"text":"這兩個確實對於男性申請育嬰留職停薪確實有幫助但是部長他就停留在這邊了"},{"start":12020.523,"end":12021.443,"text":"我們現在是想說如何更彈性"},{"start":12048.592,"end":12071.527,"text":"對﹗"},{"start":12071.667,"end":12072.928,"text":"所以我覺得我們要努力的空間還是很大"},{"start":12093.61,"end":12114.637,"text":"你到底後面要怎麼處理?你還有什麼政策工具?報告委員就是我剛剛講未來當然在男主外女姊妹這種觀念其實在性別平等的部分我們應該讓男性也願意共同來參與育兒那你的工具是什麼?工具第一個當然就是說我們如何在這個嬰留停上更有彈性讓男性更願意來使用"},{"start":12119.079,"end":12132.084,"text":"然後再來就是可能經濟上的一個誘因的支持現在已經提高到八成那當然也有人說是不是要再提高但是這個會牽涉到財源的問題但是我覺得這個都應該來討論你在這個位置上也六年的時間我覺得我們經歷過很多"},{"start":12140.708,"end":12161.323,"text":"﹗"},{"start":12161.883,"end":12168.326,"text":"但是男性跟女性那個申請那個那個那個育嬰留職停薪的比例我覺得我覺得要達到一定的目標"},{"start":12179.011,"end":12179.851,"text":"我為什麼這麼說 有時候颱風來了 國小不要去上課"},{"start":12201.243,"end":12227.42,"text":"那勞工要上班啊對不對所以我的意思是說有時候用小時來計育嬰留職停薪的彈性會更多會更好我們現在是30天嘛所以也有很多民間團體說希望用小時以單位來彈性使用育嬰留職停薪的速度的制度所以讓男性他有更多的誘因去處理不是說家裡突然有事每次都要媽媽請假"},{"start":12228.871,"end":12241.37,"text":"男性也可以去請假,請個半天帶孩子去看病也很好啊因為報告委員現在那個育嬰留停的津貼因為這個牽涉到津貼的問題如果用小時用小時可能在合幅上會比較麻煩一點 我覺得部長"},{"start":12244.775,"end":12261.337,"text":"我覺得這都是技術性上的問題我們希望讓女生能夠留在職場上在職場上男女的平等是一樣的我覺得我們就要去克服這些問題沒關係這個部分我們大概就是因為我們有做一些世界各國的一些對因為你現在"},{"start":12262.879,"end":12272.966,"text":"你現在在經濟部跟交通部你有試辦計畫但是試辦要試辦多久你不能一直試辦到年底而已你剛剛回答楊瓊英委員說到年底這個試辦計畫到年底到年底那你就要調整你就要開始食物上的問題在哪裡"},{"start":12280.891,"end":12299.917,"text":"那你們以後會用彈小時來計有沒有機會報告委員現在就是說到底要日還是到小時這個我們就是一方面試辦的看這個整個當然現在試辦是用日啦但是是不是要到小時這個不然就半天嘛半天嘛因為看個病最起碼也排個隊也要兩三個小時嘛半日四小時"},{"start":12301.758,"end":12302.419,"text":"我覺得現在我們想辦法"},{"start":12321.513,"end":12346.627,"text":"我們會去了解研議套住適合臺灣的一個制度讓這個大家願意去生養然後讓職場的這些人力的運用也不會部長我覺得還是要努力啊國際我們現在已經少子女化在全世界已經倒數了所以不要說以臺灣適應臺灣的狀況我們要想辦法跟上國際潮流一直適應臺灣的我們現在就已經是倒數我不知道還要怎麼適應"},{"start":12347.728,"end":12348.649,"text":"謝謝李燕秀委員接下來請陳培宇委員發言"},{"start":12373.058,"end":12378.903,"text":"好謝謝主席那部長跟你喝口水辛苦了辛苦了請許部長好謝謝部長"},{"start":12383.722,"end":12404.99,"text":"部長好辛苦了我們快速跟部長討論關於這個育嬰留停的部分剛剛好像也有委員提到關於這個0到6歲的部分那我想要再一次的表明其實這個0到6歲我覺得大家的這個想像跟訴求應該非常非常清楚了有時候是班上一有腸病毒然後就要休息而且全班一起休息或者是家裡有兩個小孩輪流生病"},{"start":12407.611,"end":12428.482,"text":"不管照顧的人是父親還是母親其實也需要輪流休息那甚至呢其實最近一起的台灣很重要的親子天下期刊他們也發現在疫情過後這兩三年所謂的小烏龜寶寶越來越多早療的需求越來越多那我們知道一旦遇到有早療的需求其實爸爸媽媽請假那個天數就非常的複雜跟"},{"start":12429.722,"end":12436.288,"text":"難以確定,主要是因為也要預約這個復健治療的時間,還要也要預約掛號的時間,甚至大家也知道早聊目前是卡關,這個我們後續再討論也就是說為什麼我們希望跟部長討論有沒有什麼樣的誘因跟方法,或者是勞動部這邊怎麼跟企業去討論目前只能用0到3嘛,那用到0到6的好意我覺得就是我剛剛講的這些訴求的可能性"},{"start":12453.735,"end":12475.062,"text":"可不可以請部長簡單回應一下我想就是放寬這個方向我是覺得是可以來做研議也確實在我們的了解那職場上的父母親真的是有這方面非常迫切的需求所以這部分我也請業務單位來做一些討論但是當然你放寬之後"},{"start":12475.982,"end":12498.194,"text":"有一些津貼就是會增加啦對沒錯沒錯那這個財源的部分我們如果光以救保的經費是不夠確實是不夠的所以這個部分就是可能院這邊要看看用公共預算我們可能就是要去做一些跨部位的協商我覺得政策方向如果是這樣定那財源上的支持怎麼樣這個都是要全面來更周延的來討論"},{"start":12499.815,"end":12526.224,"text":"我覺得今天一整個聽下來應該跨黨派的委員都會支持然後如果只是預算的部分可是我覺得是勞動部這邊如何願意就如同部長之前說過的其實台灣有非常多中小企業他們可能在面臨這個議題他們心也想要這樣做可是資源的部分或者是人力怎麼安排上班的部分確實我相信也需要非常多勞動部積極的協助因為其實今天經濟部國防部也都在他們應該都聽到了他們也都有反應"},{"start":12526.804,"end":12545.752,"text":"是,企業界的一些他們憂慮的地方,的確人力的運用是他們最大的困境,尤其我們的中小企業大概佔了97%,這97%裡面5人以下還佔了80%,所以這個部分到底要怎麼來,包括說我們未來就業的媒合如何來協助,包括"},{"start":12546.312,"end":12572.641,"text":"甚至是不是有一些減稅的誘因等等這個都還要具體的討論有些東西不是勞動部可以決定但是我們可以把一些意見收集以後那可能點出一些方向請各部會來大家一起來及時廣益看怎麼解決問題然後甚至是提供更多的誘因給企業幫因為我自己以前開書店也是5人以下我只有兩個正職員工那如果有一個有育嬰留職停薪的需求那我當然就會有人力撥補上的困境"},{"start":12574.522,"end":12585.678,"text":"所以我覺得有誘因很重要然後我們國家整個勞動部在設計這個相關跟企業對話的時候又把這件事情放進心裡我覺得也很重要就如同之前我在上次的質詢有跟部長討論到關於這個"},{"start":12588.851,"end":12589.671,"text":"有所謂的未滿20歲懷孕服務及後續追蹤輔導計畫"},{"start":12617.845,"end":12636.398,"text":"會有社工把這些爸爸媽媽年輕爸爸媽媽跟他們小孩所需要的照顧列為所謂社工個案管理那一旦列入所謂的個案管理才會有地方就業執訓單位提供就業資源這個部分我想勞動部應該是清楚的這個是衛福部的部分可是我們來看勞動部當這些年輕的爸爸媽媽他們"},{"start":12637.799,"end":12662.606,"text":"跑來上勞動部主辦的15到29歲職涯諮詢或是青年執訓專班的時候或者是勞動部還有針對15到19歲沒有升學沒有就業的弱勢青少年職涯準備計畫都有我們都看到了可是一旦這些人他們是所謂年輕爸爸媽媽小爸爸小媽媽他們其實沒有相關的育兒資源的補助例如我舉個例子他們去參加執訓的課程就訓期間他們的寶寶誰要來照顧"},{"start":12666.187,"end":12689.995,"text":"我們發現目前我們可以看到桃園市政府他們有相關的臨時托育補助或者是友善育兒的托育補助也就是說年輕的爸媽媽去上勞動部或是執訓局所開的執訓課程但是他們的小孩相關的托育補助是由勞動部來承擔來協助他們的不知道這個部分部長這邊你有什麼看法有沒有機會我們從勞動部的角度來推辦跟各縣市政府討論如何來試辦這個相關的育兒協助"},{"start":12693.936,"end":12715.387,"text":"這個我來 我們來 協助單位這邊來評估看看好不好好 評估看看的意思是再積極一點啦 部長不管是幾歲的人生了小孩他們在參加執訓的課程都會有需要托兒托育的補助嘛我們其實五個分署現在都有教保中心啦如果他來"},{"start":12717.248,"end":12718.249,"text":"接下來請黃國昌委員發言"},{"start":12761.816,"end":12763.561,"text":"謝謝主席。麻煩有請部長。請許部長。黃元浩"},{"start":12769.538,"end":12793.364,"text":"部長,延續著上一次諮詢的主題因為蔡總統8年的任期要到了8年時間到我們對於她在2016年所提出的勞工政策6大保證我們必須要做一個有系統的回顧上一次請教你的主題是薪資要增加這樣子的主張今天延續的這個主題我們從工時要減少第二個主題開始進行處理"},{"start":12795.385,"end":12823.355,"text":"我相信過去這10年台灣成為過勞之島這樣子一個名稱這樣子一個口號它反映出來的並不僅僅是勞工團體的訴求而是台灣的勞工特別是我們的年輕人他們所面臨的困境針對蔡總統所提出來的公實要檢討這一項政見這個給勞工朋友的承諾過去這8年來部長你認為實施的成效如何"},{"start":12825.649,"end":12844.041,"text":"報告委員這個我記得那時候修法齁那時候勞基法修法的時候關於加班的工資現在我不是在跟你討論加班的工資啦台灣目前的狀況就針對因為薪資過低嘛所以你要有比較長的工時才能夠賺多一點錢嘛"},{"start":12845.422,"end":12864.799,"text":"神火才過得下去嘛那我就一樣一樣盤點嘛上一次我們處理完了薪資要增加嘛有增加沒有增加實際上面齁是不是處於一個薪資動漲的狀態每一個勞工心裡面有一把尺我今天請教你的是第二個主題啊工時要減少過去這8年覺得蔡總統表現得怎麼樣"},{"start":12866.871,"end":12892.226,"text":"我想總統對這個部分一直都...非常的重視那我現在在講的是實際的效果你不用跟我講他很重視啦他對社會宣示一定是很重視的嘛現在我請教的是你實際的效果啊我們現在就是蔡總統上任之後我們的工時是有比以前有減少譬如說我們104年的時候大概那時候每年的"},{"start":12893.086,"end":12899.069,"text":"來 我直接給你看數字啦2016年的時候2016年的時候是2035嘛過去這8年可能我的data我還沒有看到2023年的數字"},{"start":12908.012,"end":12922.906,"text":"即使到20212022年的時候即使到2021、2022年的時候都還是維持那個時候有疫情喔都還是維持在每年2000個小時以上的高檔對這樣子的表現部長覺得滿不滿意這個齁"},{"start":12931.408,"end":12940.453,"text":"這個工時的部分有加上這個應該是有加上加班工時的部分那因為加班我現在請教你的是對這樣的表現你滿不滿意這個統計這些數字都不是我掰的這個是勞動部2022國際勞動統計這是你們官方的統計我現在的問題很具體對這樣的表現部長覺得滿不滿意"},{"start":12954.94,"end":12966.768,"text":"總統有沒有履行他的證件所以你的意思是說對於這樣子的表現你是滿意的比韓國的43.2日本的42.7其實我們台灣是比韓國比日本都來得好來看一看血汗工時排名啊台灣年年上榜啊"},{"start":12984.729,"end":13007.92,"text":"2022年有沒有進步 有啊從第4名第5名進步到第6名終於什麼終於被智力給超越了終於被智力給超越了整個亞洲國家裡面比我們長的只有新加坡其他都是什麼哥倫比亞、墨西哥、哥斯大黎加、智力這樣的表現部長滿不滿意"},{"start":13009.469,"end":13010.71,"text":"以台灣的狀況來講的話台灣的就業市場的狀態是怎麼樣"},{"start":13028.206,"end":13050.819,"text":"那你就從台灣自己本身的表現來看我現在給你看的是從2016年到2022年有data的階段嘛我剛剛一直在請教你一個問題你一直在回避不敢正面回答對於蔡總統執政到目前為止他在2016年所提出來的政見工時要減少的表現你覺得滿不滿意"},{"start":13057.186,"end":13080.718,"text":"這個問題有這麼難回答嗎我是覺得蔡總統上次確實把工資有減少啊去年的時候啊五一 去年五一之前勞工團體怎麼講的部長可以回去複習一下低薪過勞一樣是台灣勞動市場的代名詞啊以縮減的幅度來講"},{"start":13082.352,"end":13097.281,"text":"你覺得我也不曉得你滿不滿意啦來我們來看一下工時縮減的幅度剛剛你要比南韓比日本嘛我從2016年當作base line到2022年縮減的幅度台灣是最低的欸我們不僅啊工時比人家長"},{"start":13103.394,"end":13125.162,"text":"我現在你要講縮減的幅度從2016到2022有沒有進步 有阿進步1.3%阿你要不要看一下南韓跟日本的數字一個是6.3一個是5.6阿這個基本的問題部長可能在你的位置上啦回答起來很尷尬還是不敢講真心話"},{"start":13127.377,"end":13153.588,"text":"這個數字臺灣勞工實際的生活每個勞工實際的感受恐怕不是你站在這邊想要幫蔡英文總統聞過是非就可以混得過去了第三點臺灣有薪假現在只有19天敬培莫作部長你覺得臺灣的有薪假有沒有再提升的可能性"},{"start":13155.333,"end":13163.66,"text":"報告委 這個我們會來討論啦 這個你現在還要討論喔 你520就要新內閣上來沒有 業務單位會把這個問題齁 那麼當作過了8年你現在跟大家講的solution是你要討論 要討論什麼現實的數字就擺在那裡啊"},{"start":13176.052,"end":13202.084,"text":"一樣是低薪過勞啊2016年跟勞工朋友講的承諾到2024年的時候該是拿來檢驗的時候了吧檢驗出來的結果就不堪檢驗嘛一樣是低薪過勞啊這是勞工團體講的啊客觀的數字也符合他們所提出來的聲音啊今天你作為勞動部部長我只希望你能夠很誠懇很誠實的面對現在的問題嘛"},{"start":13205.155,"end":13219.621,"text":"現在過去這8年為什麼沒有成功哪裡做不好最起碼可以給新的政府一些誠懇的建議嘛而不是像你今天的態度一樣連面對問題的勇氣都沒有黃論解決問題啊部長你覺得我講的有沒有道理"},{"start":13228.251,"end":13234.876,"text":"我的原則很簡單啦政治人物要選票跟廣大的勞工朋友做出了承諾當你要卸任的時候你的承諾有沒有deliver這就是大家要檢驗的嘛"},{"start":13257.841,"end":13262.003,"text":"難不成你幹了8年以後不可以拿出來檢驗喔今天喔是第二趴六大承諾的第二趴下次見到部長的時候我們進行第三趴的檢驗謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員發言接下來請徐欣盈委員發言徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在"},{"start":13287.677,"end":13289.558,"text":"主席好,有請部長請許部長"},{"start":13312.466,"end":13314.547,"text":"那除了彈性育嬰假之外還有什麼是該做的"},{"start":13340.446,"end":13355.403,"text":"這是我今天想提出來的兩大問題跟兩項育嬰假的改革建議部長你有沒有看過2019年聯合國的關於臺灣低生育率的原因的一個報告或者有人跟你簡述過"},{"start":13356.685,"end":13382.447,"text":"有,那你應該知道聯合國的研究是看到臺灣低生育率原因在於育兒跟家務強烈的性別分工不均那這個部分臺灣其實是一個相對進步的立法因為我們當時是參照北歐的就是說就是能夠讓就是不同的parent不同的家長來請那你看到左邊這邊的線你也可以看到臺灣的女性"},{"start":13383.007,"end":13399.715,"text":"只有25歲到29歲九成在職場隨著年齡急速下降這個限比日本跟南韓更可怕那這個限代表就是說其實相對日本跟南韓我們有很多的女性她隨著年齡會因為照顧工作被迫離開職場"},{"start":13401.217,"end":13418.216,"text":"後端還可能變成是阿嬤的時候幫忙照顧孫子、孫子女這是我國的女性遇到的問題可以看你們育嬰留停津貼的男女情侶人數你可以看到100年到110男性情侶人數都低於兩成"},{"start":13418.817,"end":13440.819,"text":"可是呢111年就是後端這個起來的時候是因為就是我們改變了部長應該知道嘛為什麼改變部長曉得就是當你把給的錢增加的時候到八成的時候男性情侶比例就突破了兩成那情侶人數增加4萬人成長了近五成"},{"start":13441.58,"end":13464.182,"text":"這表示男性不是不願意請育嬰假而是他的薪水可能平均是比女性高比媽媽高所以相衡之下如果你提高了他就有動力請那這是一個非常重要的數字那這邊我也跟您訴求就是我自己也有參與的我們賴副總統的政見之一這個部長有看到吧有"},{"start":13464.622,"end":13465.322,"text":"陸長您本人支持這個方向嗎?"},{"start":13493.772,"end":13515.099,"text":"當然我是支持的我覺得這個是對照顧幼兒的這雙性是一種鼓勵跟獎勵我是覺得多一個月還好那部長既然支持的話我想我們不用等賴副院長上任其實您現在就可以再來規劃那這是一個就是我今天的第一個想問的"},{"start":13516.199,"end":13538.457,"text":"現在我也想問的就是其實我們都有看到育嬰留停的薪資替代率很重要當你長到八成的時候相對薪資比較高的平均薪資比較高的爸爸就會來領那現在呢可是呢我們這種就是投保薪資的天花板是45800他反而是變相懲罰月薪較高的人"},{"start":13538.817,"end":13555.588,"text":"因為月薪較高的人他最多只能夠領到36640等於是說收入他如果來申請的話那會大跳水那也影響到這群人申請育嬰留停的意願那不知道部長對這個有什麼看法"},{"start":13556.408,"end":13583.288,"text":"有沒有機會我們來改善這一群人因為我想不管薪資高低都應該要讓他們有一樣的機會來請育嬰假這個是要打開天花板因為這個會牽涉到勞保財務的問題這一題委員妳講的我了解但是我因為這個我們的是比較那個主要那個勞保所以這個如果打開的話勞保財務馬上會受很大的影響所以這個嚴重比較大我是覺得未來可能"},{"start":13584.308,"end":13613.396,"text":"這個部分就是如果老保的財務有改善的話這部分才能夠來思考當然我記得我們之前的委員也提出照顧基金就是說的那個附帶決議如果部長記得的話那不管財源是什麼我想這是一個我們生育率這麼低我認為這是一個非常重要的改革也希望部長就是能夠花更多的心力不管找學者或研議那因為因為留停如果薪資替代率低的話"},{"start":13613.976,"end":13634.626,"text":"等於是讓大家不敢離開職場那最後我就兩個訴求第一個那請部長是不是可以研議提升約嬰留停今天的比例到九成或全新我想我們生育率這麼低那各種方法至少在國際上聯合國的相關研究這會是一個重要的"},{"start":13635.326,"end":13659.873,"text":"第二個就是針對薪資超過月頭保薪資上限的勞工是不是能夠提出實質薪資替代率的配套措施當然我們知道財源或是一個問題可是跟我們的生育率比起來我想如何解決財源的問題應該是部長這邊要努力的那這兩個訴求跟今天這個主題非常相關的那部長是不是可以"},{"start":13660.493,"end":13661.134,"text":"接下來請張雅玲委員發言"},{"start":13703.663,"end":13705.544,"text":"好 那我們有請勞動部 請許部長"},{"start":13713.442,"end":13715.444,"text":"一共63那其中中小型企業有幾家呢?我們扣除五十幾家"},{"start":13738.724,"end":13742.448,"text":"中小企業?私人企業是53家,但是企業規模...我們這個企業規模都會比較大一點,對人力的運用上"},{"start":13753.541,"end":13772.288,"text":"我們來申請的比較多是比較大型企業但是我們是不是可以來鼓勵中小企業呢畢竟從這個數據上面也可以看到嘛中小企業在我們台灣的整體的就業人口數來說是相對來說比較多的有到7成5所以如果我們報名的都是大型企業那其實是沒有反映到我們真實的就業市場的一個狀況"},{"start":13773.248,"end":13790.506,"text":"中小企業當然它主要就是人力的運用上會發生困難那這部分我們會未來在我們的那個事辦委員這裡面包括說如何來優先媒合包括我們的發展署的一些就會媒合臺灣就會通等等資源會來協助優先幫他們媒合"},{"start":13793.069,"end":13817.885,"text":"但是我想可能只有台灣就業通可能也還不夠因為畢竟我想在上面媒合工作人員還是相對比較少所以我們可不可以再有更積極的一些做法那這個東西沒關係我們可以再繼續的討論但是我希望是說這三天大概隔壁三天之後給我一些現在的企業參與的名單參與名單因為我也不好意思這恐怕又牽涉到這個個人這個私人企業的事業單位的意願問題是不是"},{"start":13819.966,"end":13821.888,"text":"這個部分要跟他說明會之後才知道辦理的範圍"},{"start":13844.855,"end":13852.011,"text":"因為我們要跟這些私人企業開座談會因為要做一些說明是不是容許我們"},{"start":13855.402,"end":13879.235,"text":"再跟委員來回報大概什麼時候?半個月?兩個禮拜?一個月?半個月後吧。月五前好了。現在四月幾號?現在四月八號。半個月前好了。好。可以。那再下一個就是說想問一下我們法律規定的兒童是到幾歲呢?十八。欸。法律的規定是兒上學法是十二啦。人和國是十八沒有錯。那再來就是說"},{"start":13881.383,"end":13908.271,"text":"我們的幼兒呢?我們的幼兒是幾歲?我們的幼兒規定的年齡是到幾歲?幼兒是3歲好沒關係我們看一下幼教法是到6歲2歲到6歲之前所以這是幼兒的定義但我們現在性別平衡法第16條裡面是定義就是說他在請育嬰留停是3歲以前那為什麼會定義一個3歲呢?部長知道嗎?"},{"start":13910.083,"end":13913.611,"text":"因為可能那時候是考慮到又拖的一些機制吧"},{"start":13915.518,"end":13939.714,"text":"當時沒錯,1991年的時候是想說我們的幼托機制未真完善所以是訂到3歲但是我想我們在幼托小朋友3歲之後難道家長就沒有照顧的需求了嗎?我們可以看到就是在這個長病毒每次到夏天這個時間長病毒都是個高峰期那冬天有流感我們現在在各縣市是有訂例要停課的次到七天"},{"start":13941.26,"end":13968.629,"text":"那這樣子的狀況之下到底家長要怎麼照顧小孩呢?6歲以上這是小時候的部分對我們有家庭照顧假沒有錯但是我們家庭照顧假是的情的比例非常的低耶我們的男性只有2.1%女性只有5.5%因為他為什麼不好用為什麼情理的人這麼少重點就是因為他不執行嘛主要是他沒有給心對他沒有給心嘛"},{"start":13970.939,"end":13993.914,"text":"再來看我們再來看這也是衛福部自己的一個調查衛福部調查是說我們有非常高的比例的女性都是因為照顧孩童離職的我們其實今天一直在講說女性就業的人口勞動力不要下減不要因為照顧家庭而離開職場可是我們現在種種的不確定種種的不利因素都讓女性必須因為照顧未滿12歲的兒童離開職場"},{"start":13996.616,"end":14022.694,"text":"所以我們這個家庭照顧假呢是不是有可能可以讓他再去做一些修正讓他可以知新也讓他可以去延長延長到12歲因為以現在的需求他就是以現在的一些法規的支持就是不夠欸這部分是不是可以去調整來研議放寬到12歲呢包括我們往這個方向來研議"},{"start":14025.129,"end":14050.208,"text":"那這個部分還有就是除了12歲之外還有就是說家庭照顧假之心的部分因為目前就是新聞已經有講了嘛公務人員有可是勞工一直都沒有那這個明明我們最大就業人口就在勞工市場那這一塊是不是也可以這個部分當然就牽涉到財源啦對財源怎麼來解決這個部分我們再來可能要跨部會討論對那這個我們大概什麼時候可以會有更進一步的一些研議的結果呢討論的結果"},{"start":14057.003,"end":14080.94,"text":"我是覺得委員因為這個問題會當然不只裁員包括人力的調配等等我們是認為說可能我們再跟相關的工商團體勞工團體做一些討論然後再來看看推動的時程讓我想我們沒有設限就是如果討論大家都有支持我們當然可以很快來處理但是"},{"start":14082.461,"end":14099.987,"text":"當然有這個共識之後那再跟跨部會這邊因為財源的部分要怎麼解決必須院的層級來幫忙好那這樣子好不好我們還是因為我們還是持續來追蹤那大概3個月之後我們再來追蹤一下這個進度好不好好不好謝謝喔好謝謝張雅玲委員發言接下來請陳瑛委員發言"},{"start":14124.916,"end":14129.699,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩請這個條平司黃司長請黃司長委員好"},{"start":14139.543,"end":14168.378,"text":"市長好那記得上次本席有請教您這個性別平等的問題所以今天我要再繼續請教這個育嬰留職停薪的這個問題首先我要請教的是這個育嬰停留的依據是不是放在性別平等工作法裡面報告委員是好那如果這樣育嬰留停的這個申請比例如果有性別上的差異的話那是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題了"},{"start":14169.639,"end":14170.54,"text":"我的問題就很簡單啦簡單問你就簡單回答是"},{"start":14187.983,"end":14211.678,"text":"所以司長你今天這個專報上的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例你以司長男性司長的這個身份是不是支持應該增加男性的比例我支持好那司長你增加這個男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是"},{"start":14213.228,"end":14220.239,"text":"男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比"},{"start":14221.782,"end":14243.939,"text":"都要比那我們再看一下這個簡報上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿那事實上呢111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了"},{"start":14245.78,"end":14262.423,"text":"對一個家庭而言他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗"},{"start":14263.604,"end":14276.499,"text":"報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過"},{"start":14279.241,"end":14298.814,"text":"但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對"},{"start":14300.555,"end":14320.047,"text":"那就是其實我有看到這個安研所有一份這個研究報告他寫得非常好那就是這個這個報告是育嬰留職停薪津貼勤領者職牙變化之探討我稍微念一下這個重點"},{"start":14323.134,"end":14339.781,"text":"就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的"},{"start":14341.962,"end":14363.617,"text":"按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為817萬8千人那全年呢每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看"},{"start":14367.079,"end":14384.694,"text":"而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留職停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元"},{"start":14386.776,"end":14405.47,"text":"而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點"},{"start":14414.617,"end":14436.668,"text":"是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例"},{"start":14437.889,"end":14455.906,"text":"所以整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以市長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子那"},{"start":14457.067,"end":14481.038,"text":"父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力"},{"start":14484.54,"end":14511.468,"text":"那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留時停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是"},{"start":14514.212,"end":14530.548,"text":"基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看"},{"start":14534.311,"end":14556.074,"text":"男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了"},{"start":14556.975,"end":14564.918,"text":"所以師長我要請教就是說你要如何增加男性的育嬰申請假的比例呢?"},{"start":14576.588,"end":14593.026,"text":"這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點"},{"start":14594.053,"end":14613.354,"text":"好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個"},{"start":14619.223,"end":14635.167,"text":"這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有"},{"start":14637.828,"end":14642.831,"text":"你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對來說明有沒有想一想有沒有"},{"start":14666.807,"end":14695.694,"text":"還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好"},{"start":14696.354,"end":14725.335,"text":"不是不是這樣最好是這樣阿你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署"},{"start":14726.235,"end":14751.953,"text":"職安署呢這個職保法都已經沒有了那業務呢也轉到這個勞保局了可是呢還有一個這個你們還有一個職保署嗎職保組那這樣會不會有一點名不正言不順還是說要不要裁撤我想我就丟出這些問題讓各位主管海巨首長去思考一下那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民村部長"},{"start":14753.334,"end":14768.213,"text":"非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來"},{"start":14770.072,"end":14788.873,"text":"110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們徐部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點"},{"start":14792.303,"end":14817.902,"text":"那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長"},{"start":14819.103,"end":14845.73,"text":"但是呢他凡事親力親為但是做兩份工作卻只領一分薪水而已啦那我相信許部長的這個身影會一直留在我們的這個勞動部每一位同仁的心裡還有我的心裡那也提醒我們勞動部的官員們以後這個推動法案可能就不見得有這麼容易啦那我們大家還是要繼續努力以上跟大家共勉之謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":14848.902,"end":14853.246,"text":"好,謝謝陳英委員接下來請劉建國委員發言好,謝謝主席慎重歡迎部長請許部長劉委員好"},{"start":14872.773,"end":14898.798,"text":"為什麼你一樣也會留在我心中我們要辦理這個試辦彈性的育嬰留子停薪目前就是要在5月以後來試辦到12月底施行期間我們可能會延後因為有相關的配套等等我們需要認為再徵詢大家意見所以大概會延後一些為什麼要延後一些"},{"start":14900.244,"end":14924.285,"text":"你到12月底才剩下8個月你已經的收集需要一些時間因為委員很多的指教我也認為有道理是因為今天質詢之後沒有沒有上一次上一次我們公布那個原則以後很多委員認為我們那個應該要讓整個原則更有誘因然後讓大家更好使用願意來因為這東西所以你們要延後什麼時候你原本是5月1號沒有錯可能會延後一個月"},{"start":14925.386,"end":14940.01,"text":"就可能6月1日,如果到12月底就剩下7個月,應該這麼說嗎?因為試辦期間也不要太長,我們其實就是看所以你們公文是3月15日就發給各公司單位來邀請嗎?歡迎大家來參加,對不對?報名其實是4月,有改嗎?"},{"start":14949.048,"end":14968.761,"text":"你要延後有再改嗎?這個其實陸續還會再收,我們到4月1號有收到的是63家啦齁對反正後續還會後續還會陸續收到不是啊你們原本截止日是就是4月1號嗎?啊有沒有在延後截止日嗎?如果沒有延後那就是63家嘛那你要延後到什麼時候嘛?"},{"start":14969.775,"end":14983.881,"text":"你們現在延後示範計畫那你的截止日要不要延後嘛可以啊 這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底現在馬上決定了對"},{"start":14985.862,"end":15015.248,"text":"可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以因為你如果到原有是4月以後是爆米結石是六三家我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些會比較慢一點有應該也不多了啦對不對對啊就是說小規模看看先瞭解事辦為什麼一定叫做小規模如果你的願意足夠啊就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊"},{"start":15015.998,"end":15036.186,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":15036.646,"end":15064.248,"text":"我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是市部門居多?市部門多市部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於市部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是市部門大過於公部門那當然就那當然幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了"},{"start":15068.559,"end":15077.624,"text":"因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找局我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽"},{"start":15083.067,"end":15101.519,"text":"你們都聽哪幾個委員沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會我們都會來參考啦但是有些委員的也的確他會擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有沒有意願要做所以"},{"start":15103.059,"end":15130.392,"text":"這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家的疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括...我剛剛就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是私部門、大櫃、公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是私部門也可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁"},{"start":15131.312,"end":15132.072,"text":"這一個原則有這麼多的彈數 這已經不叫做原則了吧 對不對"},{"start":15160.141,"end":15167.147,"text":"報告委員我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數"},{"start":15184.481,"end":15204.569,"text":"所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的基底感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了"},{"start":15205.669,"end":15230.787,"text":"不可能嘛,所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出,是不是這樣?是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有一段數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多段數而且就是"},{"start":15231.383,"end":15247.033,"text":"用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音"},{"start":15247.833,"end":15262.434,"text":"但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是人力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛"},{"start":15262.875,"end":15263.295,"text":"第二件事也是這樣"},{"start":15286.084,"end":15286.104,"text":"這個違反"},{"start":15313.642,"end":15320.875,"text":"違反了嘛對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿"},{"start":15322.417,"end":15344.984,"text":"很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天遲到同仁要請假一小時全請減半你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣半是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組"},{"start":15346.084,"end":15347.145,"text":"這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":15366.409,"end":15389.381,"text":"報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解"},{"start":15392.182,"end":15409.438,"text":"那包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相互我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後"},{"start":15415.744,"end":15439.125,"text":"不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難"},{"start":15441.387,"end":15466.566,"text":"他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會生前彈性的那個暈金黑對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室"},{"start":15468.651,"end":15483.356,"text":"黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情"},{"start":15496.952,"end":15524.947,"text":"所以你們應該是應該是那你還是憂慮雇主制動憂慮法規的心態歡迎沒有啦不會啦這個這個報告委員這如果他們還是執意這樣做那勞工一定可以來申訴啦不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理我希望我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛對不對是不是有更強硬的一個清稿然後把1955你就留上去吧"},{"start":15525.587,"end":15552.258,"text":"好 那這樣司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面讓勞工都能夠了解好 最後一件事情啦主席 這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪 有地震也沒有掉沒地震也掉 那地震掉了更多沒地震的掉了更少嗎 那倒也未必了"},{"start":15553.178,"end":15567.971,"text":"要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧"},{"start":15568.792,"end":15585.14,"text":"像你看去年的5月10日是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同樣的去年10月28日在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車艇還有公車剛好沒有人 對不對?所以你要講給你講"},{"start":15586.6,"end":15607.231,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這次地震全國有7個塔掉確實有些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":15608.455,"end":15634.03,"text":"我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝"},{"start":15639.513,"end":15643.654,"text":"好謝謝劉建國委員接下來請洪生翰委員發言請許部長"},{"start":15660.606,"end":15660.867,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15676.049,"end":15683.676,"text":"如果要育嬰的人他沒有辦法選擇育嬰留停很有可能他的變成就變他可能是要離職所以這可能反而造成就業上面的不穩定"},{"start":15699.01,"end":15721.759,"text":"在今年年初的時候我其實有揭露了一個衛福部他是用衛福部經費聘用在民間團體服務的社工人員他因為育嬰留停所以變成他整筆的年終獎金都會消失這部分我在今年1月的時候有揭露就部長來說你對這個事件部長有什麼看法"},{"start":15724.117,"end":15751.594,"text":"我想不能因為育嬰留停而對勞工有不利的對待是部長說得很好那當然這一個事件後來衛福部他們也做出做法的上面的調整那所以我覺得剛剛部長講到一個重點就是不能因為育嬰留停而對勞工有不利的對待或差別的對待那所以接下來我要跟我要談的事情是關於我們的公立大學裡面的問題所以我現在想請"},{"start":15753.564,"end":15760.089,"text":"教育部人事處．然後人總的考用處．跟權敘部的全省司機上台三位處長來"},{"start":15774.211,"end":15792.576,"text":"三位處長然後跟司長這個我想跟你說這段時間有越來越多的這些公立大學裡面的社工師來跟我澄清他們在講到這個大學裡面也有因為育嬰留停的不公平的制度我想先請三位處長跟司長來看一下這張圖"},{"start":15796.074,"end":15821.395,"text":"這是一位校園內的專案社公司那這個專案社公司是是拿教育部的經費的專任專業輔導人員那他因為請了育嬰留停所以復職後雖然他的在職的表現他仍是拿假等但是因此因為請了育嬰留停所以連兩年無法加薪因為他被令於考核就是在我們的規定裡面下一張"},{"start":15823.943,"end":15848.356,"text":"在規定裡面有說只要你育嬰留停就會被下面打為令於考核也就是就算你考機是甲等、乙等、丙等但是對不起你還是不能進行這個規定不是只是單一間大學有我們查了好幾間學校在好幾間學校的國立大學的契顧人員工作考核實施要點裡面都是這個狀況我想先請許部長"},{"start":15850.151,"end":15866.119,"text":"你覺得喔如果這個一個職場裡面有人因為請了育嬰留停所以他就特別被標注這是明文寫的喔就不盡心不能加薪覺得這是不是一個不利的對待或者歧視性的對待我要問教育部這個狀況你們什麼看法"},{"start":15872.358,"end":15895.33,"text":"跟委員報告因為有關那個專案教室編制外專案教室的部分他那個沒有是他也是屬於那個編制外的相關的行政人力的一種那他可能那個沒有工作滿全年的這個原因很多不光只是因為留職停薪的關係所以說學校這個部分可能會對他的考核部分是用另一種考核來處理"},{"start":15897.011,"end":15916.898,"text":"這邊寫了如果他的工作表現不好但是他就算工作表現OK他是假等的也會因為他育嬰留停而被要求令於考核剛才下面因為育嬰留停被令於考核而且在令於考核裡面就寫明他是不盡心的相比於其他是不盡心的"},{"start":15920.094,"end":15936.344,"text":"他的表現如果不好沒有辦法被加薪我們沒有什麼好說的但他表現OK烤雞夾等同樣都是其他烤雞夾等的人可以加薪但對不起因為你育嬰留停所以你不進薪這什麼道理"},{"start":15938.387,"end":15941.808,"text":"今天不管他是公務人員還是勞工在這個規定裡面明明白白寫了這就是歧視性的對待嘛因為你育嬰留停"},{"start":15965.632,"end":15988.409,"text":"所以我不管你的考機如何我不管你工作表現如何就是不能加薪這上面就是這樣寫的啊而且這不只是一間大學喔這是幾間大學都有類似的規定喔所以那個處長我說教育部人事處處長你不覺得這該休嗎如果按照剛剛部長說的這其實是一個不利對待喔"},{"start":15991.395,"end":15991.776,"text":"最後我要說"},{"start":16011.258,"end":16031.64,"text":"你今天要怎麼評價他的工作表現我沒有意見他工作表現是好是壞這是一個因素你依照他的工作表現來評估沒有問題但今天很明顯育嬰留停已經成為了他被不予盡心甚至不能升遷的因素了這就是明明白白的歧視對待啊"},{"start":16033.817,"end":16033.957,"text":"所以那個"},{"start":16063.991,"end":16087.423,"text":"教育部我可不可以請問喔可不可以在一個月內請你召集包括邀請勞動部包括全序部包括人總其實召開一個會那召開一個跨部會的意義針對這些工作者在大學裡面當年育嬰留停就被令於考核而且這令於考核裡面的重點是他就影響他的進行影響他的升遷他是明擺顯明的"},{"start":16089.62,"end":16097.163,"text":"這部分能不能召開一個會來討論怎麼來修改這規定至少能夠符合變成讓育嬰留停不要變成是一個歧視性的因素可以嗎可以嗎好謝謝"},{"start":16105.232,"end":16126.461,"text":"謝謝洪森翰委員發言那本日會議詢答全部結束委員廖偉翔、楊耀、黃仁、黃珊珊、陳金輝、蘇清泉、陳冠廷委員所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報現在做以下決定報告及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料"},{"start":16128.022,"end":16138.166,"text":"請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從期所定本日會議到此結束現在休息星期三上午9點繼續開會"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}