{"total":{"value":151,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-04-18"],"total_page":2,"ivods":[{"id":"15830","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15830","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db0a0e131ea932df62e64e3898f1c98ed53be8d109af184be4c8759e64664f40e75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T12:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:30:00+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2024041533","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:42:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":720,"委員發言時間":"12:30:00 - 12:42:00","影片長度":"00:12:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.26284375,"end":541.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.66346875,"end":543.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.21596875,"end":544.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.00034375,"end":549.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.9197187500001,"end":554.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.89784375,"end":573.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.3928437500001,"end":575.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.40096875,"end":576.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.54846875,"end":577.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.7253437500001,"end":579.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.5647187500001,"end":582.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.1297187499999,"end":583.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.02409375,"end":585.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.7240937500001,"end":587.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.10784375,"end":588.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.9853437500001,"end":589.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.18346875,"end":592.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.0522187500001,"end":596.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.2709687500001,"end":598.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.1103437500001,"end":600.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.74721875,"end":602.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.6709687499999,"end":603.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.8859687500001,"end":605.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.5903437500001,"end":608.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.04971875,"end":613.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.7747187500001,"end":615.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.10346875,"end":616.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.48721875,"end":624.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.9965937500001,"end":627.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.46034375,"end":629.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.85659375,"end":631.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.99971875,"end":632.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.10096875,"end":633.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.76721875,"end":636.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.60659375,"end":638.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.9522187499999,"end":640.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.24721875,"end":642.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.63096875,"end":643.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.23409375,"end":644.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.8415937500001,"end":646.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.3940937500001,"end":649.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.93346875,"end":651.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.63346875,"end":654.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.9665937500001,"end":655.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.0678437500001,"end":657.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.6328437500001,"end":667.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.1965937500001,"end":670.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.21721875,"end":671.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.2297187500001,"end":673.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.7822187500001,"end":681.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.9834687500002,"end":696.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.96846875,"end":697.0359687499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":97.14,"end":99.118,"text":"主席"},{"start":159.98,"end":161.217,"text":"主席"},{"start":205.805,"end":230.402,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":541.308,"end":541.509,"text":"好來來謝謝那"},{"start":547.702,"end":557.865,"text":"黨團協商我們現在協商環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案本案已經在113年4月1號舉行第11屆第一次會期經濟交通兩委文會第一次聯席會議審查完畢審查的結果是全案保留送院會處理並決議院會討論前需由交由黨團協商所以"},{"start":577.03,"end":584.875,"text":"我們現在來介紹今天與會的機關單位國發會主委 龔主委 還有副主委在現場 謝謝國土區域離島發展處黃處長 謝謝交通部我們胡次長"},{"start":601.214,"end":607.916,"text":"快遞處政務處長、鐵道局旅務局長、台鐵公司縫總經理、財政部推動促參司林科元、國庫署債務管理組黃組長、內政部地政司張檢任視察、"},{"start":630.301,"end":633.442,"text":"國土管理署 國土計劃署 檢任視察 環境部徐副司長 文化部洪沐組長原民會"},{"start":653.683,"end":661.426,"text":"曾專門委員 還有柯科長 工程會徐處長 主計總處 檢熱試茶 還有李先生也在現場主計台在這邊說明"},{"start":673.843,"end":694.402,"text":"這個包括黨團協商會今天因為我們12點半那我們現在等到12點41分那等了10分鐘我們其他的黨團未有代表出席也聯繫過了那所以本案法案名稱及所有的條文均保留送請院長協商謝謝散會"}]}},{"id":"151339","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151339","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445bc7f8defa537fdbaf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c9410bd954f519c80315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"09:04:54 - 09:08:51","影片長度":"00:03:57","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":237,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:08:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:04:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":178.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.48409375,"end":236.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.97284375,"end":237.56346875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":24.631,"text":"委員所提的這樣的一個會議上的程序詢問那我想也清楚的來做回應其實民主進步黨立場非常的清楚從一而終任何一個法案都不應當被丟包任何一個提案的委員或是黨團的法案都盡可能的求取討論的周延以及品質並按討論就是最能夠提升議事效能"},{"start":25.131,"end":34.923,"text":"以及正面的強化問政品質的方式。」只是很可惜在週一的委員會上那民主進步黨一直希望能夠透過協調那請國民黨團的召委吳宗憲委員可以讓"},{"start":40.47,"end":59.397,"text":"各個法案,不是只有民進黨的黨團法案希望被併案,包括今天的呂玉玲委員有兩案,鄭天才委員有一案,汪小玲委員有一案,總共五案,如果能夠在週一就能夠併案審查,就不會有剛剛林思敏委員所說的是不是要重複再討論一次的這種異議。"},{"start":62.518,"end":84.855,"text":"所以剛剛林思明委員的發言正是足以說明週一的處置是不周延的是欠缺妥善思量的所以剛剛您的發言正驗證了週一民主進步黨要求並案審查的合理性跟正當性好那回過頭來週一的委員會的審查讓大家覺得非常的遺憾因為逐條不審查"},{"start":86.756,"end":101.292,"text":"主條不討論。國會改革就在國人面前提出了一個最差的負面示範。週一的會議沒有辦法重來,但是週四今天的會議絕對不能重蹈覆轍。"},{"start":102.973,"end":109.737,"text":"剛剛林委員說如果今天再重新討論一次然後是針對民進黨的版本主條來討論是不是會浪費時間呢?跟大家報告在立法院透過委員會的討論每一個條文的精神、緣由有沒有合憲有沒有合規透過充分的討論呈現在國人面前也加"},{"start":122.845,"end":148.532,"text":"也有會與各黨派委員來交換意見這絕對不是浪費時間這是完全要基於立法院的國會監督履行我們的職責花再多時間逐條討論都有必要更何況我們在討論的是國會改革的議案我們要強化國會的監督很重要的一件事情不管在法理上或實務上那個叫做委員會中心主義"},{"start":149.432,"end":177.75,"text":"什麼是委員會中心主義就是每一個關涉的法案它被分派到立法院最專業最資深的該委員會審議的時候透過委員會審查的期程能夠充分被討論最終的協商必須要尊重委員會討論的結果盡可能去尊重這就是尊崇委員會的中心主義讓委員會的討論被正視、被重視而且被"},{"start":179.031,"end":197.093,"text":"經過更多嚴格的檢視所以當我們在討論國會改革姿勢體大這麼嚴肅的課題我們更不能去逾越跟踐踏了所謂委員會中心主義這個重要的原則跟精神所以很抱歉我萬萬不能同意剛剛林思敏委員的提案"},{"start":197.774,"end":200.738,"text":"今天在這裡逐條審查民主進步黨的版本每一條都經得起檢驗每一條都歡迎公民社會一起來提供更寶貴的意見這絕對不會浪費時間萬萬不能再重蹈覆轍讓週一"},{"start":213.874,"end":233.733,"text":"指逐條不審查直接送交協商那這樣透明公開在哪裡呢那這樣委員中心委會中心主義又蕩然無存所以我沒有辦法同意剛剛林思明委員的提案我非常尊重林思明委員齁那這個東西就程序論程序逐條就要討論逐條就要審查謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151338","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151338","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445c1babc01870ba5adf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94cd63afc3e7d0c2bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"09:03:03 - 09:04:52","影片長度":"00:01:49","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":109,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:04:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:03:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":1.3472187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.8703437500000002,"end":19.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.99409375,"end":22.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.71096875,"end":25.934093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.22096875,"end":35.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.32909375,"end":61.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.523468750000006,"end":63.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.61596875,"end":98.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.91846875,"end":102.85034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.33909375,"end":109.14471875000001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.31,"end":15.536,"text":"主席、各位委員。我想今天民進黨排這個有關國會改革的法案。其實這個法案我們在週一在各黨團委員充分的發言之下已經審訊出委員會。"},{"start":17.176,"end":35.525,"text":"當時也沒有達成共識,本黨的召委並未強行通過任何一個版本,仍決意全案保留送諸朝野協商。民進黨的版本雖然因為不及提案並審,但仍然可以與院會提議抽出並案協商。"},{"start":36.425,"end":63.16,"text":"所以我們認為今天這個案子是等於說是重複的再做一個大體的討論至於說有沒有逐條的必要我想這可以在協商的時候我們一起就民進黨的版本大家一起可以併入來一起來協商所以今天的議程我是認為說在程序上沒有什麼正面的效益法案已經向前推了"},{"start":63.74,"end":80.794,"text":"所以我們希望我們民進黨的朋友也可以大家共同努力為國會改革的法案大家一起來向前推啦今天再一次做這樣的一個法案的審查那我個人認為我們最後的結果我們可以預期還是就是出委員會啦"},{"start":81.554,"end":88.861,"text":"保留出委員會還是要進入並案協商。」所以今天大家是不是又要浪費這個時間來做大體的討論來做這個逐條的審查請主席來採視還有各位委員大家來這個參佐以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151337","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151337","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44538e8919f85443b9957f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c94444a855be115db145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:05:34 - 09:08:27","影片長度":"00:02:53","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":173,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:08:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:05:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.262218750000001,"end":58.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.992218750000006,"end":167.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":173.97846875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.65,"end":21.937,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們在場的列席的官員各位美女朋友大家早安那鑒於各項的一個運動的國際賽事大多舉辦在該單項運動的非職業的一個賽季所以呢就產生了很多有志為國家效力的一個運動員多半的"},{"start":24.398,"end":40.947,"text":"都在休賽的一個休賽季的一個休息時間裡面去參賽但是因為你整個身體的累積整年度的一個賽季的一個疲勞讓我們的整個運動員的運動傷害風險也就提高那如何藉由法律面來提升對運動員參與這個國際賽事的權利保障我相信這個也是當務之急按照我們現行國民體育法"},{"start":47.79,"end":50.972,"text":"只有針對我國國家代表隊培訓選手和隊職員因為培訓跟參賽導致的一個短期失能、身心障礙或者死亡發給慰問金。可是來想想運動員所受到的運動傷害往往"},{"start":62.739,"end":64.72,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、"},{"start":85.686,"end":91.947,"text":"至短期失能身心障礙,中央主管機關應主動後續醫療照顧及支援。如果有嚴重影響生涯者,應提供後續就業輔導的服務,保障選手在受訓期間能獲得完整照顧,並可同時減少選手參賽的擔憂。我們期望藉由修法程序,讓各個主管機關擺脫過去徵召選手進入國家隊的思維,"},{"start":115.051,"end":139.517,"text":"我們是用邀請優秀體育選手來為國爭光對他們的權利義務的一個保障後續的照顧其實這個都是基本的感謝召委這次排定的一個議程裡面感謝特別要提醒這個體育改革這個置業其實都這個要很長的一段時間才有辦法去累積一點成效還需要我們立法院跟體育署充分的做合作這幾年除了上一屆"},{"start":141.297,"end":146.28,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「三、審查委員柯志恩等17條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:三、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「三、審查委員柯志恩等17條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:三、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「三、審查委員柯志恩等17條條文修正草案案。 »:"},{"start":168.638,"end":168.658,"text":"莊瑞"}]}},{"id":"151336","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151336","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4454cbe80f5331c5bba57f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c9463cfaa1421ca07f45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"09:01:37 - 09:05:28","影片長度":"00:03:51","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":231,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:05:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:01:37+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.35096875,"end":229.96971875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.187,"end":15.593,"text":"謝謝昭委、柯委員本席提案有關國民體育法的修法版本有鑒於上次亞洲杯資格賽眾所矚目大家很關心台灣男男隊時能險的保障不足引發了社會關注本席認為不僅僅是國家代表隊的選手需要保險的保障我認為所有的學生選手都應該享有足夠的保障"},{"start":30.843,"end":48.878,"text":"畢竟沒有學生選手哪有國手哪有代表隊的國手唯有讓所有的選手從訓練到比賽都能獲得全方面的保障才是真正的厚實國家的體育實力所以這一次我提出的修法版本有三條現行國民體育法現在體育署訂定的全國級的賽事補助辦法僅要求主辦單位投保公共意外責任保險健康保險或傷害保險"},{"start":58.786,"end":75.283,"text":"那投保健康保險或傷害保險者每個保險金額都不得低於三百萬所以呢我也知道這是我們體育署所設的一個保險保障的一個樓地板那但是呢我們常見的賽前的一個熱身期間受傷"},{"start":76.784,"end":77.084,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":97.41,"end":125.185,"text":"一旦受傷是自己還有家庭帶來沉重的一個負擔所以有時候因為家庭環境或者是經濟因素不足以負荷可以進行及時的治療或後續的復健那這個將影響的是什麼這一個學生選手可能是未來的國手他的恢復的狀況跟未來的發展可能會受到嚴重的影響所以我提出新增第二十之一條只要是學生代表學校參加"},{"start":126.826,"end":127.988,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":143.607,"end":156.964,"text":"這部分分別則是參照現行的學生團體保險制度由教育部來訂定體育活動及運動訓練團體的保險費用費率這當然需要我們今天也一起出席練習的我們金管會的保險局"},{"start":160.729,"end":170.037,"text":"則要來一起來努力跨部會來合作。另外要設立保險費的審議會。保險費用由各級學校主管機關補助三分之一。其餘三分之二的保險費我認為應該由運動發展基金來支應。這個運動發展基金的設立本來就是為了國家來培育國手而沒有學生選手哪有國手。所以應該由中央我們的運動發展基金"},{"start":188.473,"end":192.517,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":204.81,"end":229.286,"text":"上後的後續醫療照顧及相關的就業輔導服務讓國手及職員得以擁有足夠的保障我再強調一次有足夠的保險保障才能夠保護我們的學生選手能夠安心、安全他才能夠全職專心地邁向國手之路為自己、為台灣打拚、為國爭光以上請各位委員支持謝謝"}]}},{"id":"15829","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15829","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc0a0e131ea932df624f06006d1739c8703be8d109af184be486b0db05475634d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:32:01+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T17:31:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":32339,"委員發言時間":"08:32:01 - 17:31:00","影片長度":"08:58:59","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1681.4559687500002,"end":1682.4178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1682.9409687500001,"end":1686.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1687.3453437500002,"end":1688.5097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1689.0328437500002,"end":1691.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1692.7790937500001,"end":1697.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1697.94284375,"end":1703.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1703.3597187500002,"end":1705.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1705.5703437500001,"end":1709.8397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1710.0084687500002,"end":1713.0965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1713.3497187500002,"end":1715.0203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1715.3240937500002,"end":1718.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1718.36159375,"end":1725.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1725.7022187500002,"end":1728.5878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1728.8747187500003,"end":1730.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1731.13596875,"end":1733.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1734.10596875,"end":1738.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1738.6622187500002,"end":1743.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1744.21409375,"end":1751.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1752.3140937500002,"end":1757.2415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1757.4609687500001,"end":1765.9828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1772.7328437500003,"end":1775.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1777.6097187500002,"end":1787.8865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1788.1903437500002,"end":1790.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1791.3965937500002,"end":1792.9828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1793.70846875,"end":1795.3284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1795.5309687500003,"end":1797.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1798.0622187500003,"end":1800.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1800.5765937500003,"end":1807.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1808.6090937500003,"end":1812.2034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1812.6759687500003,"end":1813.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1815.0215937500002,"end":1815.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1815.7303437500002,"end":1816.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1818.4978437500001,"end":1825.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1827.2897187500002,"end":1831.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1832.2172187500003,"end":1836.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1837.02659375,"end":1838.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1838.5453437500003,"end":1839.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1841.5153437500003,"end":1841.9034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1841.9372187500003,"end":1843.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1844.5359687500002,"end":1845.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1846.45971875,"end":1847.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1847.01659375,"end":1847.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1848.1134687500003,"end":1848.4003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1858.9472187500003,"end":1860.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1860.7697187500003,"end":1861.4447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1861.5965937500002,"end":1876.0753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1876.3115937500002,"end":1879.7034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1879.78784375,"end":1882.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1882.5722187500003,"end":1885.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1886.0822187500003,"end":1895.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1896.1565937500002,"end":1958.0878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1958.7459687500002,"end":1962.6947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1967.2003437500002,"end":2148.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2148.43784375,"end":2206.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2206.9434687500006,"end":2213.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2213.3053437500002,"end":2220.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2216.52846875,"end":2218.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2222.6709687500006,"end":2234.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2234.55096875,"end":2238.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2238.48284375,"end":2253.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2253.29909375,"end":2262.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2262.8672187500006,"end":2263.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2266.0565937500005,"end":2266.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2267.65971875,"end":2268.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2269.46534375,"end":2270.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2270.1403437500003,"end":2271.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2272.28346875,"end":2274.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2274.74721875,"end":2276.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2277.76784375,"end":2283.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2283.7584687500002,"end":2286.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2286.7790937500004,"end":2290.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2291.6053437500004,"end":2296.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2297.37659375,"end":2301.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2301.94971875,"end":2304.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2305.44284375,"end":2305.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2306.4215937500003,"end":2308.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2309.1553437500006,"end":2311.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2311.45034375,"end":2312.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2313.40784375,"end":2314.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2315.07846875,"end":2317.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2318.3522187500002,"end":2322.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2322.4022187500004,"end":2328.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2329.5234687500006,"end":2336.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2336.94846875,"end":2339.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2340.4247187500005,"end":2341.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2342.6015937500006,"end":2343.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2344.8122187500003,"end":2346.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2347.3434687500003,"end":2350.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2351.52846875,"end":2353.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2354.02596875,"end":2355.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2355.8653437500006,"end":2359.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2360.03346875,"end":2361.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2363.23971875,"end":2368.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2368.8590937500003,"end":2371.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2372.6728437500005,"end":2374.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2375.47409375,"end":2378.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2379.2878437500003,"end":2380.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2381.1778437500006,"end":2382.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2383.3884687500004,"end":2384.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2385.24471875,"end":2386.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2386.96596875,"end":2392.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2393.05784375,"end":2398.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2398.96409375,"end":2400.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2400.95534375,"end":2401.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2402.7272187500002,"end":2403.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2405.1403437500003,"end":2407.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2409.6797187500006,"end":2410.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2411.7215937500005,"end":2413.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2414.7422187500006,"end":2415.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2416.46346875,"end":2418.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2418.7753437500005,"end":2422.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2423.56784375,"end":2427.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2428.27596875,"end":2429.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2431.16159375,"end":2432.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2433.2878437500003,"end":2434.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2435.2284687500005,"end":2436.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2437.67534375,"end":2438.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2439.5653437500005,"end":2440.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2441.70846875,"end":2443.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2444.00346875,"end":2447.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2448.57659375,"end":2452.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2452.96409375,"end":2455.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2455.81596875,"end":2456.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2457.62159375,"end":2459.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2459.5622187500003,"end":2462.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2463.27471875,"end":2465.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2466.2615937500004,"end":2468.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2469.3328437500004,"end":2479.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2480.58846875,"end":2482.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2480.7740937500002,"end":2480.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2482.25909375,"end":2483.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2483.87909375,"end":2491.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2492.5865937500002,"end":2498.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2499.26909375,"end":2510.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2510.6934687500006,"end":2516.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2517.6122187500005,"end":2524.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2524.80096875,"end":2526.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2527.9734687500004,"end":2529.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2530.40346875,"end":2531.4834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2531.8378437500005,"end":2532.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2533.35659375,"end":2534.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2535.4490937500004,"end":2536.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2536.93409375,"end":2537.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2543.05971875,"end":2547.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2551.51409375,"end":2561.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2561.28471875,"end":2568.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2568.5915937500004,"end":2572.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2572.60784375,"end":2651.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2652.27471875,"end":2665.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2667.4959687500004,"end":2672.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2675.4440937500003,"end":2683.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2685.41721875,"end":2730.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2730.9628437500005,"end":2737.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2737.5778437500003,"end":2773.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2773.70721875,"end":2791.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2791.9659687500007,"end":2793.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2794.0753437500007,"end":2804.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2805.34784375,"end":2814.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2815.4053437500006,"end":2818.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2818.56096875,"end":2821.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2822.72909375,"end":2840.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2841.40971875,"end":2899.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2899.72971875,"end":2901.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2902.27784375,"end":2944.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2946.1697187500004,"end":2947.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2947.7559687500006,"end":2949.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2950.5065937500003,"end":2959.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2960.54721875,"end":2965.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2966.21721875,"end":2967.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2967.8709687500004,"end":2972.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2972.3934687500005,"end":2976.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2976.62909375,"end":2979.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2979.5147187500006,"end":2980.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2980.98284375,"end":2981.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2982.07971875,"end":2983.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2984.3240937500004,"end":2987.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2987.5134687500004,"end":2990.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2990.8378437500005,"end":2992.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2992.54221875,"end":2995.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2995.4615937500002,"end":2997.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2999.3259687500004,"end":3001.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3002.32971875,"end":3002.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3003.10596875,"end":3004.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3004.35471875,"end":3008.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3009.73784375,"end":3018.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3018.5634687500005,"end":3020.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3021.06096875,"end":3021.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3022.20846875,"end":3022.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3022.9678437500006,"end":3024.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3025.11096875,"end":3026.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3026.6297187500004,"end":3027.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3027.57471875,"end":3029.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3030.0215937500006,"end":3031.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3032.0634687500005,"end":3038.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3038.89784375,"end":3041.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3041.8172187500004,"end":3056.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3056.9540937500005,"end":3061.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3061.44284375,"end":3064.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3065.17221875,"end":3070.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3070.6903437500005,"end":3075.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3075.3984687500006,"end":3090.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3091.7165937500004,"end":3095.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3096.2390937500004,"end":3103.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3104.05221875,"end":3106.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3107.1065937500007,"end":3108.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3108.87846875,"end":3110.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3112.18596875,"end":3113.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3113.5865937500002,"end":3116.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3116.8434687500003,"end":3118.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3118.7165937500004,"end":3120.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3120.6065937500007,"end":3122.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3122.61471875,"end":3124.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3124.9265937500004,"end":3126.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3126.4959687500004,"end":3127.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3127.79534375,"end":3129.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3129.34784375,"end":3131.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3131.7947187500004,"end":3136.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3136.9753437500003,"end":3139.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3140.28284375,"end":3143.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3143.3203437500006,"end":3151.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3151.53846875,"end":3153.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3153.58034375,"end":3154.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3154.32284375,"end":3155.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3155.89221875,"end":3157.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3157.68096875,"end":3162.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3162.2372187500005,"end":3164.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3164.49846875,"end":3172.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3173.29034375,"end":3177.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3177.45846875,"end":3178.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3178.5722187500005,"end":3179.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3180.04034375,"end":3181.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3181.5253437500005,"end":3182.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3182.33534375,"end":3187.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3188.1572187500005,"end":3188.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3189.08534375,"end":3190.9415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3191.3634687500007,"end":3194.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3195.24471875,"end":3195.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3196.1222187500007,"end":3198.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3199.34534375,"end":3201.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3202.1803437500002,"end":3202.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3203.31096875,"end":3206.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3207.17534375,"end":3208.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3209.28471875,"end":3218.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3219.1397187500006,"end":3224.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3224.47221875,"end":3225.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3226.21034375,"end":3227.2228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3231.8972187500003,"end":3258.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3258.99846875,"end":3262.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3262.62659375,"end":3270.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3270.1865937500006,"end":3292.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3293.35596875,"end":3302.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3302.8397187500004,"end":3307.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3308.6447187500007,"end":3309.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3310.8047187500006,"end":3312.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3313.2684687500005,"end":3321.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3321.7734687500006,"end":3322.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3323.07284375,"end":3323.9503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3324.55784375,"end":3325.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3326.5997187500006,"end":3328.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3329.2490937500006,"end":3334.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3334.9697187500005,"end":3335.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3335.05409375,"end":3338.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3338.6315937500003,"end":3339.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3340.0322187500005,"end":3345.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3345.31409375,"end":3363.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3364.0622187500003,"end":3377.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3378.1190937500005,"end":3379.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3380.00909375,"end":3380.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3381.4265937500004,"end":3384.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3385.18971875,"end":3390.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3391.39971875,"end":3404.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3404.5284687500007,"end":3405.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3405.64221875,"end":3406.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3406.9753437500003,"end":3408.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3408.4940937500005,"end":3420.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3425.5378437500003,"end":3426.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3427.57971875,"end":3433.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3433.7559687500006,"end":3434.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3434.9372187500003,"end":3435.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3437.28284375,"end":3440.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3440.77596875,"end":3443.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3444.5897187500004,"end":3451.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3451.5759687500004,"end":3460.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3461.7684687500005,"end":3465.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3465.48096875,"end":3470.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3470.71221875,"end":3476.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3477.22596875,"end":3478.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3479.5040937500007,"end":3481.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3481.14096875,"end":3482.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3483.4190937500007,"end":3484.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3485.07284375,"end":3490.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3492.05909375,"end":3493.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3494.77596875,"end":3495.9572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3496.1259687500005,"end":3496.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3497.29034375,"end":3499.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3499.82159375,"end":3500.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3501.4753437500003,"end":3504.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3505.42409375,"end":3507.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3508.15784375,"end":3511.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3511.9884687500007,"end":3513.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3514.06409375,"end":3522.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3522.55221875,"end":3524.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3524.6953437500006,"end":3527.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3527.68221875,"end":3540.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3540.92909375,"end":3545.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3545.94096875,"end":3546.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3546.6834687500004,"end":3550.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3550.8515937500006,"end":3557.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3557.68596875,"end":3558.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3558.8672187500006,"end":3560.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3561.0947187500005,"end":3568.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3568.9753437500003,"end":3570.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3571.43909375,"end":3572.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3572.9747187500006,"end":3573.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3573.2109687500006,"end":3577.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3578.2565937500003,"end":3584.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3584.93909375,"end":3586.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3586.91346875,"end":3589.1915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3589.69784375,"end":3590.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3591.4190937500007,"end":3592.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3592.7184687500003,"end":3593.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3594.97971875,"end":3605.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3605.9990937500006,"end":3607.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3607.70346875,"end":3608.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3609.10409375,"end":3610.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3613.13721875,"end":3614.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3614.99346875,"end":3618.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3619.70159375,"end":3620.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3620.91659375,"end":3622.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3622.5197187500007,"end":3625.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3625.9453437500006,"end":3627.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3627.8184687500006,"end":3629.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3630.5353437500007,"end":3632.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3633.26909375,"end":3634.7540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3634.93971875,"end":3635.5978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3635.6990937500004,"end":3638.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3638.93909375,"end":3640.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3640.8122187500003,"end":3642.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3644.4403437500005,"end":3644.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3646.11096875,"end":3648.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3649.0978437500007,"end":3650.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3651.39284375,"end":3654.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3655.2403437500006,"end":3657.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3658.09221875,"end":3663.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3663.8634687500007,"end":3669.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3669.9890937500004,"end":3670.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3671.00159375,"end":3674.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3675.7940937500007,"end":3680.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3680.4347187500007,"end":3681.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3683.0672187500004,"end":3690.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3691.8590937500003,"end":3693.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3693.7322187500004,"end":3696.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3697.4109687500004,"end":3701.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3702.2540937500007,"end":3705.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3705.8990937500002,"end":3709.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3710.59034375,"end":3711.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3712.09221875,"end":3714.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3714.4040937500004,"end":3714.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3714.43784375,"end":3715.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3715.2647187500006,"end":3720.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3721.01909375,"end":3724.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3725.0353437500007,"end":3728.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3728.6465937500006,"end":3730.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3730.6209687500004,"end":3734.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3734.87346875,"end":3736.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3736.9659687500007,"end":3737.6915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3737.9278437500006,"end":3739.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3739.93596875,"end":3740.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3740.5772187500006,"end":3741.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3742.83846875,"end":3744.7453437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3745.42034375,"end":3746.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3747.04034375,"end":3749.8078437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3750.66846875,"end":3751.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3751.7822187500005,"end":3752.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3754.0603437500004,"end":3756.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3757.23284375,"end":3759.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3759.76409375,"end":3760.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3761.5865937500002,"end":3762.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3762.66659375,"end":3763.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3764.1515937500008,"end":3766.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3766.58159375,"end":3768.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3769.46721875,"end":3770.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3771.10409375,"end":3771.4415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3773.2472187500007,"end":3776.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3776.9765937500006,"end":3777.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3777.41534375,"end":3778.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3778.5290937500004,"end":3778.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3779.2040937500005,"end":3779.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3784.48596875,"end":3794.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3794.9822187500004,"end":3798.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3799.1503437500005,"end":3800.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3800.63534375,"end":3802.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3802.79534375,"end":3809.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3810.4903437500006,"end":3812.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3812.6503437500005,"end":3816.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3817.37534375,"end":3818.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3819.5859687500006,"end":3827.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3827.98971875,"end":3831.6515937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3831.78659375,"end":3832.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3832.86659375,"end":3847.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3848.30721875,"end":3856.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3857.33534375,"end":3859.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3859.5965937500005,"end":3864.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3865.4015937500008,"end":3867.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3868.23659375,"end":3870.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3871.4090937500005,"end":3879.7453437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3880.30221875,"end":3881.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3883.2215937500005,"end":3884.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3886.0059687500006,"end":3887.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3888.1490937500002,"end":3889.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3890.6465937500006,"end":3891.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3892.9922187500006,"end":3901.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3902.00346875,"end":3906.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3907.84221875,"end":3911.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3911.47034375,"end":3911.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3912.2803437500006,"end":3913.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3914.3897187500006,"end":3915.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3916.4147187500002,"end":3918.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3919.58721875,"end":3920.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3921.3759687500005,"end":3924.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3925.81409375,"end":3927.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3928.4972187500007,"end":3932.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3932.85096875,"end":3936.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3936.52971875,"end":3939.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3939.4997187500003,"end":3940.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3941.0690937500003,"end":3942.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3942.9928437500002,"end":3944.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3945.2540937500007,"end":3948.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3948.8990937500002,"end":3951.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3952.8309687500005,"end":3953.6915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3954.06284375,"end":3955.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3956.12159375,"end":3957.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3958.0790937500005,"end":3959.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3960.3234687500008,"end":3969.8240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3961.5722187500005,"end":3962.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3964.3565937500007,"end":3965.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3970.21221875,"end":3970.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3971.37659375,"end":3973.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3973.5028437500005,"end":3976.8947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3977.68784375,"end":3981.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3981.9572187500007,"end":3988.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3989.19659375,"end":3991.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3992.5378437500003,"end":3993.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3994.3603437500005,"end":4001.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4002.34221875,"end":4004.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4004.40096875,"end":4006.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4006.9659687500007,"end":4007.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4008.13034375,"end":4014.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4015.1672187500008,"end":4015.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4016.4328437500008,"end":4020.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4021.15784375,"end":4042.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4021.44471875,"end":4021.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4021.4615937500002,"end":4022.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4022.11971875,"end":4022.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4022.2547187500004,"end":4022.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4022.4909687500003,"end":4022.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4022.65971875,"end":4023.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4023.5372187500006,"end":4023.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4023.62159375,"end":4023.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4048.3097187500007,"end":4048.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4049.3728437500004,"end":4051.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4052.17409375,"end":4053.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4053.81096875,"end":4054.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4055.75159375,"end":4058.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4058.56971875,"end":4058.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4059.4640937500008,"end":4061.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4061.9953437500008,"end":4065.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4065.57284375,"end":4067.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4068.27284375,"end":4069.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4069.89284375,"end":4071.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4072.3565937500007,"end":4083.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4084.25346875,"end":4085.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4086.0422187500008,"end":4087.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4087.7128437500005,"end":4100.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4101.63471875,"end":4109.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4109.63346875,"end":4112.097218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4112.654093749999,"end":4114.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4114.358468750001,"end":4116.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4116.737843749999,"end":4117.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4120.4334687499995,"end":4121.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4121.243468750001,"end":4121.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4121.513468749999,"end":4122.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4122.694718750001,"end":4122.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4123.31909375,"end":4126.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4126.94721875,"end":4130.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4130.40659375,"end":4131.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4131.8240937499995,"end":4133.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4133.292218750001,"end":4136.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4136.481593750001,"end":4137.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4137.57846875,"end":4138.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4139.21534375,"end":4140.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4140.835343750001,"end":4141.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4142.387843750001,"end":4143.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4144.3622187500005,"end":4146.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4146.977843750001,"end":4149.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4150.403468750001,"end":4152.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4152.05721875,"end":4154.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4154.841593749999,"end":4157.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4157.91284375,"end":4159.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4160.25846875,"end":4161.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4161.979718750001,"end":4163.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4163.4647187499995,"end":4164.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4164.966593749999,"end":4166.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4166.670968750001,"end":4168.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4168.8309687500005,"end":4169.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4169.55659375,"end":4170.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4170.58596875,"end":4172.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4172.88096875,"end":4174.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4175.091593749999,"end":4176.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4177.015343749999,"end":4180.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4180.28909375,"end":4183.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4184.08596875,"end":4190.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4190.7684687500005,"end":4191.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4192.827218750001,"end":4194.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4194.5653437500005,"end":4195.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4196.0165937500005,"end":4197.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4198.00784375,"end":4200.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4201.349093750001,"end":4204.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4204.4540937500005,"end":4205.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4206.05721875,"end":4206.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4207.2215937500005,"end":4208.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4209.364718750001,"end":4211.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4212.0478437500005,"end":4213.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4214.1572187500005,"end":4215.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4216.13159375,"end":4217.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4218.24096875,"end":4220.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4220.21534375,"end":4220.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4221.936593750001,"end":4222.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4223.235968749999,"end":4224.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4224.417218750001,"end":4226.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4227.2353437500005,"end":4228.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4229.04096875,"end":4230.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4231.13346875,"end":4232.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4232.517218749999,"end":4233.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4233.732218749999,"end":4234.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4235.21721875,"end":4236.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4237.27596875,"end":4237.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4238.06909375,"end":4238.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4239.09846875,"end":4240.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4240.684718750001,"end":4241.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4241.83221875,"end":4242.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4242.89534375,"end":4243.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4244.97096875,"end":4250.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4252.1259687500005,"end":4254.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4255.23096875,"end":4255.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4255.7372187500005,"end":4256.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4256.800343749999,"end":4257.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4258.94346875,"end":4261.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4262.08221875,"end":4264.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4265.4403437500005,"end":4266.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4266.925343749999,"end":4267.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4267.98846875,"end":4268.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4269.4228437500005,"end":4270.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4271.54909375,"end":4272.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4272.882218750001,"end":4274.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4275.61596875,"end":4279.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4280.290343750001,"end":4287.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4288.27221875,"end":4294.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4295.612843749999,"end":4297.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4298.515343749999,"end":4301.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4302.1434687500005,"end":4302.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4303.29096875,"end":4304.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4305.265343749999,"end":4308.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4309.163468750001,"end":4313.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4314.934718750001,"end":4316.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4316.048468749999,"end":4316.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4316.841593749999,"end":4316.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4316.858468750001,"end":4320.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4320.57096875,"end":4321.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4321.870343750001,"end":4323.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4323.38909375,"end":4324.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4324.722218749999,"end":4325.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4326.00471875,"end":4329.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4329.86909375,"end":4330.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4330.392218749999,"end":4331.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4332.06284375,"end":4333.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4334.3915937500005,"end":4355.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4357.999718749999,"end":4359.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4359.19784375,"end":4360.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4363.93971875,"end":4371.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4372.41096875,"end":4373.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4374.19971875,"end":4375.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4376.849093750001,"end":4386.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4386.231593750001,"end":4416.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4416.8934687500005,"end":4418.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4418.800343749999,"end":4419.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4420.065968749999,"end":4424.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4425.43221875,"end":4428.503468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4429.262843750001,"end":4431.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4431.169718749999,"end":4432.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4432.435343749999,"end":4433.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4434.24096875,"end":4440.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4441.395968750001,"end":4448.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4448.804093750001,"end":4452.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4452.7528437500005,"end":4454.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4455.317843750001,"end":4456.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4456.60034375,"end":4466.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4466.82659375,"end":4480.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4481.03534375,"end":4485.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4486.165343750001,"end":4489.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4491.02534375,"end":4511.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4511.477843750001,"end":4513.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4513.94159375,"end":4519.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4520.657843749999,"end":4522.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4523.45909375,"end":4527.222218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4527.880343750001,"end":4539.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4535.2040937500005,"end":4536.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4540.772843750001,"end":4555.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4556.34846875,"end":4557.597218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4558.154093749999,"end":4559.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4560.263468749999,"end":4562.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4562.74409375,"end":4563.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4564.51596875,"end":4566.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4566.94596875,"end":4567.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4567.958468750001,"end":4568.987843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4569.224093750001,"end":4570.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4570.827218750001,"end":4572.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4573.341593749999,"end":4583.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4583.97284375,"end":4584.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4585.74471875,"end":4586.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4588.343468749999,"end":4594.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4594.57034375,"end":4609.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4609.92659375,"end":4611.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4611.934718750001,"end":4616.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4616.811593750001,"end":4622.144093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4622.515343749999,"end":4628.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4629.450968749999,"end":4630.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4630.51409375,"end":4631.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4631.762843750001,"end":4632.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4632.53909375,"end":4633.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4634.057843750001,"end":4636.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4637.41596875,"end":4637.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4638.040343750001,"end":4639.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4639.6434687500005,"end":4648.300343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4648.97534375,"end":4649.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4649.58284375,"end":4659.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4660.5009687500005,"end":4663.065968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4663.18409375,"end":4670.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4674.76034375,"end":4694.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4694.892218749999,"end":4698.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4698.57096875,"end":4704.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4705.489718750001,"end":4716.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4717.23471875,"end":4723.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4723.866593750001,"end":4723.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4723.90034375,"end":4727.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4724.03534375,"end":4724.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4728.507218750001,"end":4732.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4728.72659375,"end":4732.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4732.405343750001,"end":4734.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4733.147843750001,"end":4733.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4735.1053437499995,"end":4739.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4739.577218750001,"end":4741.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4742.057843750001,"end":4743.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4743.25596875,"end":4744.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4745.26409375,"end":4746.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4746.968468749999,"end":4747.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4748.0653437500005,"end":4752.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4752.452843749999,"end":4754.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4756.18221875,"end":4757.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4758.561593750001,"end":4760.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4760.434718750001,"end":4761.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4762.22346875,"end":4763.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4763.96159375,"end":4772.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4773.360968749999,"end":4775.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4776.314093749999,"end":4778.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4780.43159375,"end":4781.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4782.878468750001,"end":4784.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4785.173468749999,"end":4786.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4787.13096875,"end":4788.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4789.206593750001,"end":4790.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4791.58596875,"end":4793.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4794.20159375,"end":4796.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4796.378468750001,"end":4800.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4801.390343749999,"end":4803.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4804.47846875,"end":4807.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4807.98846875,"end":4809.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4810.300343750001,"end":4812.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4813.10159375,"end":4817.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4818.5184687500005,"end":4826.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4826.6522187499995,"end":4828.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4828.542218750001,"end":4835.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4836.28784375,"end":4837.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4837.94159375,"end":4839.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4839.882218750001,"end":4841.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4841.620343750001,"end":4845.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4845.95721875,"end":4849.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4850.64846875,"end":4857.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4857.972218750001,"end":4867.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4862.30909375,"end":4863.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4870.29096875,"end":4870.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4870.9490937499995,"end":4872.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4872.9403437500005,"end":4875.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4875.77534375,"end":4876.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4883.419718749999,"end":4884.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4884.0272187499995,"end":4885.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4886.5584687499995,"end":4889.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4890.2372187500005,"end":4897.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4898.421593749999,"end":4915.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4917.01784375,"end":4932.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4933.116593750001,"end":4936.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4937.014718750001,"end":4941.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4942.870343750001,"end":4945.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4945.65471875,"end":4951.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4951.442843750001,"end":4952.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4953.0965937500005,"end":4954.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4956.06659375,"end":4958.142218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4958.86784375,"end":4962.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4963.6434687500005,"end":4970.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4971.62534375,"end":4976.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4977.885968750001,"end":4978.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4979.185343749999,"end":4983.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4984.23096875,"end":5000.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5000.97096875,"end":5004.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5005.257218750001,"end":5006.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5007.43409375,"end":5008.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5009.577218750001,"end":5015.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5016.124718749999,"end":5023.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5024.41034375,"end":5054.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5055.44346875,"end":5058.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5059.29096875,"end":5064.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5065.484093749999,"end":5066.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5067.34034375,"end":5068.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5069.26409375,"end":5075.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5076.14909375,"end":5080.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5080.97534375,"end":5085.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5086.020968750001,"end":5096.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5096.44971875,"end":5103.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5104.161593750001,"end":5113.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5113.628468750001,"end":5120.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5120.952218750001,"end":5138.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5138.434718750001,"end":5139.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5139.71721875,"end":5140.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5141.185343749999,"end":5156.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5157.09846875,"end":5160.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5159.78159375,"end":5164.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5171.8134687500005,"end":5222.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5223.366593750001,"end":5231.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5232.4959687499995,"end":5262.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5263.14096875,"end":5264.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5265.4697187500005,"end":5274.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5275.13909375,"end":5277.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5278.1259687500005,"end":5279.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5279.475968750001,"end":5284.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5285.331593750001,"end":5304.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5304.602843750001,"end":5322.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5324.380343750001,"end":5328.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5335.534718750001,"end":5336.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5336.96909375,"end":5337.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5337.30659375,"end":5340.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5340.647843750001,"end":5342.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5343.128468750001,"end":5347.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5348.02221875,"end":5352.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5352.6122187500005,"end":5358.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5359.345343749999,"end":5361.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5361.91034375,"end":5365.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5366.5340937500005,"end":5373.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5374.347218750001,"end":5382.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5382.66659375,"end":5393.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5394.66471875,"end":5400.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5400.840968750001,"end":5402.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5402.477843750001,"end":5403.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5404.23284375,"end":5416.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5417.81721875,"end":5419.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5419.23471875,"end":5419.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5419.909718750001,"end":5421.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5422.10346875,"end":5426.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5427.419093750001,"end":5435.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5436.700343750001,"end":5438.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5439.0965937500005,"end":5443.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5443.635968750001,"end":5452.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5453.609093749999,"end":5473.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5474.010968750001,"end":5478.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5478.263468749999,"end":5480.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5480.946593750001,"end":5483.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5483.96721875,"end":5487.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5488.47284375,"end":5502.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5502.225968750001,"end":5503.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5504.2509687500005,"end":5505.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5506.124093750001,"end":5507.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5509.36409375,"end":5521.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5528.44971875,"end":5528.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5529.95159375,"end":5531.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5532.76971875,"end":5533.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5534.102843750001,"end":5537.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5539.874093750001,"end":5540.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5541.07221875,"end":5542.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5543.147843750001,"end":5544.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5545.66221875,"end":5546.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5546.96159375,"end":5551.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5552.02409375,"end":5552.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5552.057843750001,"end":5553.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5554.57221875,"end":5564.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5564.78159375,"end":5565.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5565.642218749999,"end":5566.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5567.49846875,"end":5568.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5568.89909375,"end":5569.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5570.620343750001,"end":5573.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5573.92784375,"end":5575.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5576.104718750001,"end":5578.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5578.65284375,"end":5581.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5582.6522187499995,"end":5584.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5585.95971875,"end":5587.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5588.40659375,"end":5590.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5591.528468750001,"end":5592.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5593.350968750001,"end":5594.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5595.62909375,"end":5598.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5598.58221875,"end":5599.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5600.69159375,"end":5603.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5603.847218750001,"end":5605.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5605.770968750001,"end":5607.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5607.779093749999,"end":5608.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5609.63534375,"end":5612.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5612.436593750001,"end":5615.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5616.14909375,"end":5618.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5618.714093750001,"end":5619.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5620.31721875,"end":5622.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5622.86534375,"end":5623.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5624.55284375,"end":5625.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5626.61159375,"end":5628.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5629.42971875,"end":5630.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5631.5897187499995,"end":5632.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5634.44159375,"end":5637.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5638.4072187500005,"end":5639.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5641.24221875,"end":5643.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5643.75659375,"end":5644.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5645.714093750001,"end":5646.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5646.7772187499995,"end":5649.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5649.39284375,"end":5650.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5651.08034375,"end":5655.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5657.25659375,"end":5658.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5659.99034375,"end":5661.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5662.2684687500005,"end":5663.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5663.87159375,"end":5664.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5664.884093750001,"end":5666.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5667.280343750001,"end":5667.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5668.27596875,"end":5668.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5669.22096875,"end":5669.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5670.132218750001,"end":5673.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5673.8447187500005,"end":5675.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5676.25784375,"end":5677.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5678.21534375,"end":5678.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5679.29534375,"end":5680.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5681.21909375,"end":5682.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5683.51409375,"end":5684.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5685.0497187500005,"end":5686.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5687.63159375,"end":5688.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5688.99846875,"end":5690.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5690.753468750001,"end":5692.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5693.16659375,"end":5694.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5695.765343749999,"end":5696.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5697.182843750001,"end":5697.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5697.75659375,"end":5698.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5698.920968750001,"end":5699.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5700.54096875,"end":5701.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5702.616593750001,"end":5706.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5706.6834687499995,"end":5707.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5708.16846875,"end":5710.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5711.560343749999,"end":5712.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5713.9228437500005,"end":5717.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5718.86721875,"end":5720.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5721.465968750001,"end":5722.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5723.389718750001,"end":5724.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5724.58784375,"end":5729.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5730.460343750001,"end":5732.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5732.519093750001,"end":5734.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5734.544093750001,"end":5735.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5735.6747187500005,"end":5735.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5736.974093750001,"end":5737.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5738.93159375,"end":5740.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5741.39534375,"end":5742.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5743.487843750001,"end":5745.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5746.592843750001,"end":5747.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5748.229718750001,"end":5748.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5748.921593749999,"end":5750.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5750.5584687499995,"end":5752.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5752.78596875,"end":5753.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5754.28784375,"end":5754.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5756.245343750001,"end":5756.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5757.932843750001,"end":5759.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5760.00846875,"end":5761.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5763.0965937500005,"end":5764.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5765.27346875,"end":5766.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5767.75409375,"end":5769.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5770.47096875,"end":5772.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5774.655968749999,"end":5775.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5777.187218749999,"end":5777.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5778.317843750001,"end":5779.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5779.56659375,"end":5782.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5782.97534375,"end":5783.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5783.12721875,"end":5785.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5785.70909375,"end":5788.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5789.55659375,"end":5792.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5792.948468750001,"end":5794.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5795.108468750001,"end":5802.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5802.16221875,"end":5803.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5804.45721875,"end":5807.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5807.62971875,"end":5811.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5812.55721875,"end":5813.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5814.700343750001,"end":5816.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5817.653468750001,"end":5819.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5819.64471875,"end":5820.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5820.57284375,"end":5821.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5821.5009687500005,"end":5822.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5824.251593750001,"end":5825.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5826.68159375,"end":5828.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5829.314093750001,"end":5830.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5832.081593750001,"end":5832.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5832.739718750001,"end":5834.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5834.41034375,"end":5835.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5835.81096875,"end":5836.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5836.874093750001,"end":5839.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5840.249093750001,"end":5841.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5842.493468750001,"end":5843.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5844.0965937500005,"end":5845.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5847.96096875,"end":5848.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5849.04096875,"end":5850.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5851.36971875,"end":5853.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5854.37346875,"end":5856.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5856.82034375,"end":5864.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5864.65034375,"end":5866.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5866.65846875,"end":5867.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5868.53159375,"end":5869.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5869.9490937499995,"end":5870.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5870.185343749999,"end":5870.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5871.33284375,"end":5872.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5873.189093750001,"end":5883.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5884.64721875,"end":5885.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5886.368468750001,"end":5891.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5896.29096875,"end":5901.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5899.88534375,"end":5899.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5902.60221875,"end":5948.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5949.227843750001,"end":5955.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5955.62346875,"end":5956.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5956.80471875,"end":5957.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5958.272843750001,"end":5959.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5960.483468750001,"end":5963.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5964.550343750001,"end":5967.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5967.8915937500005,"end":5971.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5972.07659375,"end":5977.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5978.32034375,"end":5980.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5981.104718750001,"end":5983.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5983.720343750001,"end":5986.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5986.75784375,"end":5989.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5990.55471875,"end":5991.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5991.702218750001,"end":5993.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5994.19971875,"end":5995.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5996.190968750001,"end":6000.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6000.86534375,"end":6002.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6002.8397187499995,"end":6003.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6003.970343750001,"end":6004.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6005.421593749999,"end":6011.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6011.91846875,"end":6015.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6015.76596875,"end":6019.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6019.259093750001,"end":6019.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6020.25471875,"end":6022.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6024.372218750001,"end":6036.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6036.640343749999,"end":6039.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6039.49221875,"end":6040.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6040.622843749999,"end":6041.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6041.73659375,"end":6047.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6048.01409375,"end":6048.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6048.72284375,"end":6059.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6059.809718750001,"end":6065.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6066.72846875,"end":6073.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6073.7147187499995,"end":6088.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6088.5478437500005,"end":6089.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6089.83034375,"end":6093.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6094.116593750001,"end":6095.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6095.82096875,"end":6098.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6098.87534375,"end":6107.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6107.481593750001,"end":6107.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6108.3084687499995,"end":6119.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6119.3447187500005,"end":6128.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6129.216593749999,"end":6136.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6137.7215937500005,"end":6145.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6145.956593750001,"end":6147.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6147.779093749999,"end":6150.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6150.24284375,"end":6154.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6155.03534375,"end":6155.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6156.8240937499995,"end":6164.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6165.24471875,"end":6175.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6175.57221875,"end":6181.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6182.001593750001,"end":6187.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6194.235968750001,"end":6198.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6198.977843750001,"end":6198.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6199.33221875,"end":6207.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6208.41096875,"end":6215.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6215.295968750001,"end":6219.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6219.885968750001,"end":6221.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6221.97846875,"end":6231.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6231.58034375,"end":6234.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6234.19596875,"end":6242.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6243.122843749999,"end":6249.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6249.82221875,"end":6257.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6258.42846875,"end":6263.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6263.794718749999,"end":6270.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6270.510968750001,"end":6273.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6273.48096875,"end":6275.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6275.87721875,"end":6279.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6279.94409375,"end":6289.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6290.187218749999,"end":6308.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6308.429093750001,"end":6315.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6316.24221875,"end":6319.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6319.9715937500005,"end":6319.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6320.190968750001,"end":6328.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6330.38346875,"end":6345.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6345.604718750001,"end":6349.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6349.55346875,"end":6375.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6375.43971875,"end":6376.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6376.874093750001,"end":6378.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6378.510968750001,"end":6393.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6393.934718750001,"end":6400.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6400.46534375,"end":6412.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6412.682843750001,"end":6418.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6418.94346875,"end":6421.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6421.964093750001,"end":6423.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6423.95534375,"end":6430.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6430.51971875,"end":6431.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6432.409718750001,"end":6433.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6433.624718749999,"end":6456.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6457.31721875,"end":6460.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6460.5740937499995,"end":6467.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6467.290343750001,"end":6470.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6470.88471875,"end":6471.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6472.403468750001,"end":6472.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6472.774718750001,"end":6472.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6473.280968749999,"end":6473.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6481.51596875,"end":6484.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6484.9247187500005,"end":6487.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6487.75971875,"end":6490.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6491.286593750001,"end":6492.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6492.85596875,"end":6494.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6495.67409375,"end":6500.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6501.4959687499995,"end":6503.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6504.077843749999,"end":6507.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6508.026593750001,"end":6514.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6515.890343749999,"end":6518.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6519.450968749999,"end":6520.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6520.868468750001,"end":6522.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6522.977843750001,"end":6523.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6524.39534375,"end":6526.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6526.89284375,"end":6528.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6529.491593750001,"end":6534.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6534.38534375,"end":6535.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6536.12346875,"end":6537.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6537.94596875,"end":6538.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6539.481593750001,"end":6542.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6543.05909375,"end":6544.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6544.64534375,"end":6547.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6548.3915937500005,"end":6548.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6549.083468750001,"end":6552.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6552.28971875,"end":6558.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6558.465968750001,"end":6559.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6559.79909375,"end":6561.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6562.36409375,"end":6565.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6565.907843750001,"end":6566.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6568.725968750001,"end":6570.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6571.45971875,"end":6573.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6574.109093749999,"end":6577.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6578.007218750001,"end":6578.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6579.559718750001,"end":6583.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6583.84596875,"end":6585.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6586.47846875,"end":6591.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6591.76034375,"end":6594.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6595.5740937499995,"end":6596.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6597.24471875,"end":6600.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6603.555968750001,"end":6605.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6607.09971875,"end":6629.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6631.4334687499995,"end":6632.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6633.222218750001,"end":6633.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6634.04909375,"end":6643.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6644.764718750001,"end":6645.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6649.18596875,"end":6652.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6652.88159375,"end":6655.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6656.138468749999,"end":6775.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6775.545968750001,"end":6895.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6896.11784375,"end":6917.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6918.122843749999,"end":6948.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6967.93784375,"end":6972.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6973.827218750001,"end":6974.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6975.37971875,"end":6976.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6977.45534375,"end":6978.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6979.24409375,"end":6985.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6986.16284375,"end":6987.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6987.934718750001,"end":6994.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6995.03909375,"end":7005.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7005.974093750001,"end":7007.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7008.20159375,"end":7010.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7010.614718750001,"end":7013.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7013.87159375,"end":7017.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7018.03971875,"end":7019.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7021.09409375,"end":7021.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7021.634093750001,"end":7025.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7028.78909375,"end":7029.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7030.84784375,"end":7034.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7035.319718750001,"end":7037.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7037.49659375,"end":7041.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7042.52534375,"end":7043.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7044.735968750001,"end":7054.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7054.97909375,"end":7068.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7068.63096875,"end":7071.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7074.52034375,"end":7076.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7076.59596875,"end":7081.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7081.962218750001,"end":7083.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7084.493468750001,"end":7090.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7090.905968750001,"end":7099.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7100.423468750001,"end":7102.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7104.89534375,"end":7106.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7106.59971875,"end":7108.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7109.2997187500005,"end":7112.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7112.64096875,"end":7115.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7115.610968750001,"end":7121.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7122.10784375,"end":7130.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7131.034718750001,"end":7132.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7133.616593750001,"end":7135.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7136.02971875,"end":7146.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7147.23471875,"end":7157.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7157.8153437500005,"end":7168.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7169.67846875,"end":7171.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7171.534718750001,"end":7174.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7174.909718750001,"end":7191.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7192.1053437499995,"end":7193.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7194.29909375,"end":7196.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7196.86409375,"end":7203.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7204.84596875,"end":7213.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7213.57034375,"end":7217.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7217.333468750001,"end":7224.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7226.378468750001,"end":7237.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7237.3134687500005,"end":7241.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7241.430968750001,"end":7244.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7244.63721875,"end":7248.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7248.130343750001,"end":7249.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7250.054093750001,"end":7252.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7258.592843750001,"end":7265.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7266.43971875,"end":7312.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7313.149718750001,"end":7334.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7335.01971875,"end":7372.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7373.055968750001,"end":7387.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7388.057843750001,"end":7416.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7417.724093750001,"end":7420.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7421.520968750001,"end":7447.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7448.92596875,"end":7452.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7452.58784375,"end":7453.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7458.42659375,"end":7459.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7459.74284375,"end":7573.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7574.93159375,"end":7577.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7577.749718750001,"end":7578.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7578.829718750001,"end":7578.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7578.8465937500005,"end":7579.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7580.196593750001,"end":7580.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7580.97284375,"end":7582.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7582.42409375,"end":7585.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7586.997218750001,"end":7590.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7589.714093750001,"end":7592.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7592.81909375,"end":7596.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7596.86909375,"end":7603.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7603.93971875,"end":7604.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7604.749718750001,"end":7608.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7609.3397187499995,"end":7610.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7611.39846875,"end":7614.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7614.840968750001,"end":7624.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7617.01784375,"end":7617.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7617.878468750001,"end":7619.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7624.66221875,"end":7626.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7628.2059687500005,"end":7633.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7634.26409375,"end":7644.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7642.077218750001,"end":7642.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7644.06846875,"end":7648.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7649.282843750001,"end":7649.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7650.362843750001,"end":7651.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7652.421593750001,"end":7657.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7655.40846875,"end":7655.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7655.96534375,"end":7655.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7657.55159375,"end":7659.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7660.639718750001,"end":7661.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7662.040343750001,"end":7664.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7664.284718750001,"end":7669.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7670.78159375,"end":7672.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7673.194718750001,"end":7673.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7674.44346875,"end":7676.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7675.37159375,"end":7675.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7675.65846875,"end":7675.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7678.74659375,"end":7679.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7679.82659375,"end":7681.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7681.69971875,"end":7682.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7682.712218750001,"end":7685.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7686.5428437499995,"end":7689.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7689.25971875,"end":7690.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7691.419718749999,"end":7692.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7693.259093750001,"end":7694.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7695.925343750001,"end":7697.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7697.49471875,"end":7701.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7701.57846875,"end":7706.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7707.61971875,"end":7720.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7721.30534375,"end":7725.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7726.18221875,"end":7728.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7728.62909375,"end":7729.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7730.856593750001,"end":7731.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7732.257218750001,"end":7733.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7734.180968750001,"end":7735.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7736.290343750001,"end":7737.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7738.41659375,"end":7741.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7742.1122187500005,"end":7743.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7743.7997187500005,"end":7744.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7745.13284375,"end":7745.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7746.24659375,"end":7747.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7747.46159375,"end":7748.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7749.01409375,"end":7750.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7751.30909375,"end":7752.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7752.20346875,"end":7753.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7753.60409375,"end":7759.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7759.22346875,"end":7765.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7765.5009687500005,"end":7765.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7766.7665937500005,"end":7774.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7774.866593750001,"end":7776.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7777.482218749999,"end":7780.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7780.401593750001,"end":7782.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7782.76409375,"end":7784.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7785.00846875,"end":7792.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7792.56846875,"end":7793.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7793.665343750001,"end":7799.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7799.993468750001,"end":7800.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7801.157843750001,"end":7802.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7803.19971875,"end":7809.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7809.7303437499995,"end":7810.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7811.21534375,"end":7816.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7815.38346875,"end":7817.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7816.9022187499995,"end":7817.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7817.72909375,"end":7817.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7818.741593750001,"end":7820.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7821.694718750001,"end":7823.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7824.1415937500005,"end":7826.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7827.16221875,"end":7829.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7830.57096875,"end":7832.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7833.86159375,"end":7836.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7836.966593749999,"end":7838.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7838.87346875,"end":7840.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7842.29909375,"end":7844.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7845.5897187499995,"end":7854.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7855.22534375,"end":7856.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7856.96346875,"end":7861.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7862.17784375,"end":7863.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7863.94971875,"end":7865.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7866.177218750001,"end":7867.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7867.5947187500005,"end":7868.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7868.40471875,"end":7872.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7882.967843750001,"end":7883.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7891.810343749999,"end":7894.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7895.13471875,"end":7896.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7903.79159375,"end":7904.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7904.02784375,"end":7922.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7922.91096875,"end":7929.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7929.62721875,"end":7940.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7941.0009687500005,"end":7950.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7950.923468750001,"end":7951.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7952.189093750001,"end":7954.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7954.75409375,"end":7954.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7954.80471875,"end":7954.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7955.192843750001,"end":7955.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7955.20971875,"end":7963.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7963.022843750001,"end":7963.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7963.545968750001,"end":7963.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7963.56284375,"end":7963.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7963.69784375,"end":7963.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7963.83284375,"end":7965.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7966.27971875,"end":7969.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7969.57034375,"end":7973.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7973.940968750001,"end":7974.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7974.53159375,"end":7977.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7977.24846875,"end":7978.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7978.83471875,"end":7980.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7981.04534375,"end":7982.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7982.7665937500005,"end":7996.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7997.17784375,"end":7997.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8000.0634687500005,"end":8003.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8004.16409375,"end":8007.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8007.62346875,"end":8007.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8007.640343750001,"end":8065.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8065.36971875,"end":8069.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8070.364718750001,"end":8081.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8082.278468750001,"end":8089.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8089.484093750001,"end":8091.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8092.065968750001,"end":8101.482218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8101.769093750001,"end":8117.091593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8117.952218750001,"end":8119.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8119.47096875,"end":8126.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8126.87909375,"end":8127.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8128.83659375,"end":8131.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8131.823468750001,"end":8132.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8133.49409375,"end":8136.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8136.464093750001,"end":8144.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8144.665343750001,"end":8149.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8149.575968750001,"end":8157.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8158.14846875,"end":8162.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8162.8397187499995,"end":8164.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8164.03784375,"end":8165.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8165.387843750001,"end":8180.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8181.267218750001,"end":8183.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8184.0009687500005,"end":8186.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8187.57846875,"end":8187.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8188.10159375,"end":8192.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8193.214718750001,"end":8199.087218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8199.69471875,"end":8201.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8201.38221875,"end":8203.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8203.812218750001,"end":8208.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8208.55409375,"end":8209.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8209.38096875,"end":8223.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8223.82596875,"end":8225.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8226.509093749999,"end":8238.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8238.034718750001,"end":8285.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8242.050968750002,"end":8243.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8285.41971875,"end":8305.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8305.500968750002,"end":8308.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8308.825343750003,"end":8310.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8310.83346875,"end":8319.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8321.565968750001,"end":8337.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8337.42846875,"end":8339.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8340.21284375,"end":8341.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8342.457218750002,"end":8343.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8343.722843750002,"end":8346.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8346.13596875,"end":8370.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8370.840968750003,"end":8383.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8383.93596875,"end":8390.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8390.871593750002,"end":8397.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8397.73971875,"end":8399.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8400.034718750001,"end":8404.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8405.164718750002,"end":8406.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8406.278468750003,"end":8407.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8407.88159375,"end":8410.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8410.379093750002,"end":8411.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8411.492843750002,"end":8412.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8414.496593750002,"end":8415.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8416.04909375,"end":8417.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8417.98971875,"end":8420.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8422.090343750002,"end":8422.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8423.59221875,"end":8425.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8426.190968750001,"end":8427.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8428.519718750002,"end":8430.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8431.422218750002,"end":8433.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8434.172843750002,"end":8436.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8436.55221875,"end":8437.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8438.762843750003,"end":8444.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8445.90096875,"end":8447.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8448.28034375,"end":8448.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8450.37284375,"end":8452.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8453.950343750003,"end":8468.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8476.10721875,"end":8477.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8478.081593750001,"end":8479.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8478.790343750003,"end":8480.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8481.051593750002,"end":8481.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8481.27096875,"end":8481.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8481.81096875,"end":8481.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8481.844718750002,"end":8481.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8481.878468750001,"end":8481.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8481.96284375,"end":8482.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8482.03034375,"end":8482.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8482.148468750001,"end":8482.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8482.28346875,"end":8482.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8482.317218750002,"end":8483.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8483.515343750001,"end":8483.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8483.59971875,"end":8483.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8485.152218750001,"end":8487.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8489.18534375,"end":8489.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8490.34971875,"end":8490.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8490.687218750001,"end":8491.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8493.62346875,"end":8493.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8493.690968750001,"end":8493.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8494.230968750002,"end":8494.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8495.817218750002,"end":8496.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8497.20096875,"end":8498.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8499.462218750003,"end":8501.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8501.63909375,"end":8508.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8509.08096875,"end":8509.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8511.207218750002,"end":8511.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8512.371593750002,"end":8513.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8513.738468750002,"end":8517.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8517.92346875,"end":8519.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8519.813468750002,"end":8532.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8532.891593750002,"end":8534.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8534.74784375,"end":8536.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8536.97534375,"end":8538.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8539.050968750002,"end":8539.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8540.18159375,"end":8541.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8541.632843750001,"end":8542.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8543.57346875,"end":8544.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8544.687218750001,"end":8546.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8546.914718750002,"end":8548.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8549.46284375,"end":8550.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8551.96034375,"end":8554.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8555.52096875,"end":8557.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8558.11971875,"end":8559.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8559.55409375,"end":8560.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8561.76471875,"end":8563.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8563.941593750002,"end":8564.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8565.578468750002,"end":8569.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8569.61159375,"end":8570.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8571.61971875,"end":8573.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8574.539093750001,"end":8575.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8576.867843750002,"end":8579.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8580.37784375,"end":8581.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8584.10721875,"end":8585.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8586.06471875,"end":8588.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8589.16971875,"end":8589.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8590.637843750003,"end":8593.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8594.24909375,"end":8596.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8597.60721875,"end":8599.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8600.98221875,"end":8603.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8603.93534375,"end":8604.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8604.644093750001,"end":8606.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8606.669093750003,"end":8608.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8608.96409375,"end":8610.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8610.85409375,"end":8612.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8612.89596875,"end":8614.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8615.74784375,"end":8617.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8618.61659375,"end":8623.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8624.320343750001,"end":8626.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8627.391593750002,"end":8628.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8630.26034375,"end":8631.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8633.51721875,"end":8634.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8634.715343750002,"end":8635.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8635.457843750002,"end":8636.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8637.01034375,"end":8638.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8638.37721875,"end":8639.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8641.144718750002,"end":8642.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8642.96721875,"end":8643.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8643.473468750002,"end":8644.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8644.587218750003,"end":8645.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8645.92034375,"end":8647.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8648.18159375,"end":8649.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8651.117843750002,"end":8651.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8653.61534375,"end":8655.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8656.34909375,"end":8657.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8657.95221875,"end":8658.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8658.89721875,"end":8664.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8665.292843750001,"end":8667.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8668.38096875,"end":8670.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8671.38471875,"end":8673.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8673.49409375,"end":8678.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8679.51846875,"end":8680.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8681.56034375,"end":8684.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8684.78346875,"end":8688.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8689.06971875,"end":8692.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8694.300968750002,"end":8694.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8695.684718750003,"end":8697.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8697.203468750002,"end":8698.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8699.363468750002,"end":8700.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8701.18596875,"end":8702.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8703.750968750002,"end":8705.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8706.61971875,"end":8710.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8711.14221875,"end":8712.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8713.926593750002,"end":8724.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8725.13159375,"end":8726.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8727.91596875,"end":8729.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8729.62034375,"end":8731.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8731.594718750002,"end":8734.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8734.98659375,"end":8738.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8738.699093750001,"end":8744.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8745.938468750002,"end":8748.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8749.38096875,"end":8750.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8751.11909375,"end":8751.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8751.33846875,"end":8752.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8753.312843750002,"end":8754.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8755.253468750001,"end":8756.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8756.957843750002,"end":8759.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8760.434093750002,"end":8761.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8761.66596875,"end":8768.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8769.85034375,"end":8771.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8772.145343750002,"end":8774.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8775.11534375,"end":8777.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8777.984093750001,"end":8780.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8780.852843750003,"end":8783.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8783.82284375,"end":8785.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8785.81409375,"end":8789.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8789.94846875,"end":8790.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8790.92721875,"end":8792.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8792.95221875,"end":8794.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8794.89284375,"end":8795.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8797.22159375,"end":8799.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8800.74846875,"end":8801.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8802.16596875,"end":8804.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8804.42721875,"end":8812.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8812.24034375,"end":8814.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8815.750343750002,"end":8818.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8819.05784375,"end":8820.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8820.863468750002,"end":8823.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8825.284718750001,"end":8827.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8828.06909375,"end":8830.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8831.96721875,"end":8833.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8833.92471875,"end":8835.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8836.48971875,"end":8837.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8839.03784375,"end":8841.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8841.83909375,"end":8844.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8844.539093750001,"end":8845.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8846.378468750001,"end":8847.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8848.63971875,"end":8850.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8851.407218750002,"end":8852.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8853.246593750002,"end":8863.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8864.063468750002,"end":8870.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8871.25221875,"end":8872.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8873.378468750001,"end":8874.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8875.04909375,"end":8877.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8878.440968750001,"end":8879.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8880.989093750002,"end":8884.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8884.80284375,"end":8885.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8886.203468750002,"end":8887.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8888.042843750001,"end":8889.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8889.98346875,"end":8898.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8899.399718750003,"end":8901.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8901.72846875,"end":8903.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8903.68596875,"end":8904.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8905.37346875,"end":8907.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8908.49534375,"end":8911.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8911.43159375,"end":8913.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8914.11471875,"end":8915.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8916.08909375,"end":8917.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8917.28721875,"end":8918.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8919.059093750002,"end":8919.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8920.83096875,"end":8923.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8923.76721875,"end":8925.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8925.77534375,"end":8926.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8926.872218750003,"end":8928.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8929.62284375,"end":8930.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8931.00659375,"end":8932.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8932.15409375,"end":8933.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8933.68971875,"end":8934.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8935.039718750002,"end":8935.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8936.085968750001,"end":8937.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8938.144718750002,"end":8938.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8939.309093750002,"end":8940.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8940.96284375,"end":8944.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8945.012843750003,"end":8946.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8947.324718750002,"end":8950.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8950.868468750003,"end":8953.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8955.37409375,"end":8957.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8957.88846875,"end":8959.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8959.710968750001,"end":8960.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8961.094718750002,"end":8963.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8964.469718750002,"end":8966.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8967.18659375,"end":8967.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8968.87409375,"end":8970.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8970.61221875,"end":8972.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8972.789093750001,"end":8981.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8981.327843750001,"end":8987.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8989.714718750001,"end":9002.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9008.78346875,"end":9010.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9016.54596875,"end":9017.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9017.085968750001,"end":9017.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9017.153468750003,"end":9017.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9017.406593750002,"end":9035.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9019.16159375,"end":9019.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9035.817218750002,"end":9053.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9054.59909375,"end":9054.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9055.274093750002,"end":9068.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9069.077843750001,"end":9077.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9077.515343750001,"end":9080.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9080.957843750002,"end":9095.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9095.95971875,"end":9138.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9138.636593750001,"end":9143.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9144.222218750001,"end":9148.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9149.36909375,"end":9162.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9163.24034375,"end":9168.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9168.640343750001,"end":9170.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9171.644093750001,"end":9174.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9176.284718750001,"end":9204.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9204.938468750002,"end":9212.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9211.688468750002,"end":9213.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9213.96659375,"end":9225.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9225.74534375,"end":9229.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9230.031593750002,"end":9236.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9236.832218750002,"end":9241.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9241.894718750002,"end":9268.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9269.67096875,"end":9281.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9282.445343750001,"end":9291.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9292.637843750003,"end":9300.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9301.176593750002,"end":9301.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9301.31159375,"end":9301.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9301.41284375,"end":9301.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9301.969718750002,"end":9305.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9306.340343750002,"end":9313.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9313.613468750002,"end":9327.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9327.957218750002,"end":9368.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9368.28846875,"end":9371.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9372.13596875,"end":9377.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9377.468468750001,"end":9379.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9381.062843750002,"end":9389.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9390.175343750001,"end":9390.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9390.968468750001,"end":9390.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9391.356593750003,"end":9396.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9396.90846875,"end":9406.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9404.097218750001,"end":9404.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9406.628468750001,"end":9407.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9408.14721875,"end":9428.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9428.414093750001,"end":9430.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9430.48971875,"end":9434.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9434.67471875,"end":9449.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9450.31784375,"end":9455.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9456.24096875,"end":9460.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9461.10096875,"end":9472.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9472.74471875,"end":9476.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9477.840968750003,"end":9484.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9485.046593750001,"end":9491.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9492.066593750002,"end":9495.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9496.285343750002,"end":9504.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9505.195343750001,"end":9511.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9513.04221875,"end":9522.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9523.352843750003,"end":9527.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9528.68534375,"end":9528.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9540.379718750002,"end":9541.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9545.98221875,"end":9546.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9547.230968750002,"end":9548.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9548.58096875,"end":9564.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9567.39659375,"end":9570.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9570.012218750002,"end":9581.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9570.04596875,"end":9571.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9571.699718750002,"end":9573.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9575.56409375,"end":9575.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9575.58096875,"end":9575.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9580.79534375,"end":9586.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9587.106593750003,"end":9588.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9589.33409375,"end":9609.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9609.972218750001,"end":9610.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9610.259093750003,"end":9646.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9647.468468750001,"end":9653.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9654.218468750001,"end":9657.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9657.964718750001,"end":9668.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9670.199093750001,"end":9707.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9707.273468750001,"end":9738.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9739.437218750001,"end":9741.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9742.238468750002,"end":9757.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9757.76346875,"end":9782.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9783.109718750002,"end":9784.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9784.999718750001,"end":9785.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9785.77596875,"end":9796.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9797.41971875,"end":9806.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9806.59971875,"end":9807.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9808.472843750002,"end":9847.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9847.84221875,"end":9861.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9862.35471875,"end":9882.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9867.72096875,"end":9869.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9872.344718750002,"end":9872.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9872.78346875,"end":9872.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9880.343468750001,"end":9880.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9880.37721875,"end":9880.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9882.503468750001,"end":9890.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9887.61659375,"end":9901.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9890.97471875,"end":9894.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9901.52159375,"end":9907.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9908.00159375,"end":9911.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9912.152843750002,"end":9935.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9935.71034375,"end":9939.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9939.96284375,"end":9978.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9979.129718750002,"end":9993.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9993.777218750001,"end":10007.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10008.67784375,"end":10010.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10010.93909375,"end":10016.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10017.26721875,"end":10021.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10021.722218750001,"end":10039.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10040.43659375,"end":10094.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10095.972218750001,"end":10105.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10106.45159375,"end":10124.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10125.047843750002,"end":10126.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10127.27534375,"end":10132.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10133.097218750001,"end":10139.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10140.015968750002,"end":10140.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10141.079093750002,"end":10150.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10151.035343750002,"end":10153.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10153.70159375,"end":10156.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10156.722218750001,"end":10157.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10158.13971875,"end":10159.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10160.839718750001,"end":10162.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10164.02909375,"end":10164.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10165.14284375,"end":10166.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10166.813468750002,"end":10168.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10168.99034375,"end":10171.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10171.656593750002,"end":10173.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10174.710968750001,"end":10175.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10175.90909375,"end":10176.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10177.242218750001,"end":10178.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10178.64284375,"end":10180.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10180.58346875,"end":10182.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10183.570343750001,"end":10185.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10186.000343750002,"end":10187.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10187.519093750001,"end":10204.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10204.27596875,"end":10208.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10217.910968750002,"end":10222.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10229.976593750001,"end":10231.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10231.42784375,"end":10235.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10232.204093750002,"end":10232.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10232.28846875,"end":10232.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10235.76471875,"end":10236.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10236.895343750002,"end":10239.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10239.848468750002,"end":10240.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10748.511593750001,"end":10751.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10751.937218750001,"end":10754.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10754.97471875,"end":10758.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10758.83909375,"end":10759.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10761.859718750002,"end":10765.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10766.58471875,"end":10770.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10774.364093750002,"end":10777.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10778.009093750003,"end":10785.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10788.640343750001,"end":10789.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10790.42909375,"end":10796.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10796.925968750002,"end":10800.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10798.664093750001,"end":10798.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10800.840968750003,"end":10809.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10804.266593750002,"end":10804.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10809.430343750002,"end":10812.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10810.45971875,"end":10813.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10813.125968750002,"end":10814.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10814.20596875,"end":10814.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10815.04971875,"end":10823.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10823.47034375,"end":10830.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10833.29159375,"end":10849.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10848.95159375,"end":10863.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10863.09284375,"end":10865.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10866.012218750002,"end":10883.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10877.352218750002,"end":10877.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10879.208468750003,"end":10879.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10879.242218750001,"end":10879.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10879.664093750001,"end":10879.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10885.047218750002,"end":10893.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10893.282218750002,"end":10898.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10898.969093750002,"end":10923.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10923.977843750003,"end":10929.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10930.32284375,"end":10940.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10940.802218750003,"end":10941.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10941.055343750002,"end":10951.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10951.754093750002,"end":10964.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10962.55409375,"end":10975.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10976.070968750002,"end":10977.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10977.927218750003,"end":10992.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10984.84596875,"end":10985.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10991.781593750002,"end":11001.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11001.585968750001,"end":11001.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11001.602843750003,"end":11001.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11001.67034375,"end":11013.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11001.855968750002,"end":11003.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11014.934093750002,"end":11019.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11020.637843750003,"end":11026.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11027.10096875,"end":11056.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11056.83471875,"end":11057.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11058.40409375,"end":11089.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11090.618468750003,"end":11094.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11094.887843750003,"end":11101.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11101.789718750002,"end":11106.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11106.649718750003,"end":11113.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11113.73721875,"end":11125.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11126.005343750003,"end":11149.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11150.153468750003,"end":11157.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11157.86534375,"end":11160.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11160.582218750002,"end":11162.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11163.855968750002,"end":11185.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11186.417843750001,"end":11190.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11190.29909375,"end":11202.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11203.191593750002,"end":11204.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11204.71034375,"end":11205.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11206.38096875,"end":11207.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11208.524093750002,"end":11209.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11209.958468750003,"end":11214.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11215.51034375,"end":11216.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11216.421593750001,"end":11224.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11224.25159375,"end":11226.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11227.255343750003,"end":11228.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11229.128468750001,"end":11230.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11230.84971875,"end":11232.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11232.402218750001,"end":11256.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11257.07346875,"end":11272.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11272.61534375,"end":11276.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11276.09159375,"end":11279.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11279.73659375,"end":11300.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11301.03284375,"end":11309.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11309.824718750002,"end":11313.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11314.92096875,"end":11324.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11325.29909375,"end":11332.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11333.922218750002,"end":11349.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11350.03784375,"end":11360.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11360.871593750002,"end":11370.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11371.317218750002,"end":11372.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11373.03846875,"end":11374.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11374.72596875,"end":11375.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11376.177218750003,"end":11377.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11377.45971875,"end":11379.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11379.434093750002,"end":11380.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11380.952843750001,"end":11399.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11399.903468750003,"end":11425.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11400.08909375,"end":11402.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11424.844718750002,"end":11431.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11432.809718750003,"end":11433.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11435.20596875,"end":11445.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11446.039718750002,"end":11452.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11465.83409375,"end":11467.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11468.63534375,"end":11469.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11469.25971875,"end":11471.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11472.921593750001,"end":11472.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11472.972218750001,"end":11473.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11473.00596875,"end":11473.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11473.07346875,"end":11474.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11475.672218750002,"end":11478.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11478.54096875,"end":11481.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11481.949718750002,"end":11484.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11484.81846875,"end":11489.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11489.52659375,"end":11492.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11492.277218750001,"end":11495.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11496.27659375,"end":11498.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11499.11159375,"end":11501.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11501.44034375,"end":11513.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11513.87721875,"end":11529.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11529.621593750002,"end":11545.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11545.46721875,"end":11552.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11552.38596875,"end":11585.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11585.899718750003,"end":11586.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11587.03034375,"end":11601.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11602.58909375,"end":11659.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11659.457843750002,"end":11673.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11669.059718750003,"end":11669.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11673.852218750002,"end":11704.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11676.855968750002,"end":11676.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11676.87284375,"end":11676.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11692.39784375,"end":11693.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11697.055343750002,"end":11698.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11699.08034375,"end":11699.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11704.379093750002,"end":11719.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11720.07284375,"end":11775.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11776.35096875,"end":11785.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11783.13471875,"end":11783.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11785.21034375,"end":11785.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11785.530968750001,"end":11830.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11797.91721875,"end":11798.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11824.27596875,"end":11825.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11826.520343750002,"end":11826.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11830.75596875,"end":11834.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11834.687843750002,"end":11861.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11861.856593750003,"end":11905.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11905.84971875,"end":11910.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11912.009093750003,"end":11913.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11914.13534375,"end":11928.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11925.120968750001,"end":11931.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11932.714718750001,"end":11947.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11947.31159375,"end":11992.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11992.637843750003,"end":11998.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11998.67909375,"end":12004.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12005.10846875,"end":12011.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12009.90096875,"end":12010.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12011.84159375,"end":12019.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12021.44346875,"end":12027.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12046.45221875,"end":12053.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12054.332843750002,"end":12057.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12060.542843750001,"end":12084.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12084.707843750002,"end":12095.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12095.69346875,"end":12098.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12100.418468750002,"end":12116.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12116.63534375,"end":12120.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12120.43221875,"end":12122.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12124.97159375,"end":12145.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12134.219093750002,"end":12134.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12145.677218750003,"end":12146.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12145.879718750002,"end":12152.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12152.24159375,"end":12159.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12157.101593750001,"end":12158.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12159.632843750001,"end":12160.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12160.527218750001,"end":12173.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12174.449093750001,"end":12213.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12213.379718750002,"end":12223.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12223.859093750001,"end":12226.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12227.132843750001,"end":12286.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12286.06034375,"end":12363.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12363.972218750001,"end":12370.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12370.249718750001,"end":12373.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12374.265968750002,"end":12379.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12379.78409375,"end":12383.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12384.30659375,"end":12391.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12392.22096875,"end":12418.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12415.74471875,"end":12451.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12452.515343750001,"end":12458.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12459.50159375,"end":12459.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12461.83034375,"end":12462.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12464.226593750001,"end":12465.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12466.808468750001,"end":12468.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12469.339718750001,"end":12485.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12485.961593750002,"end":12493.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12493.825343750003,"end":12509.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12509.82284375,"end":12517.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12518.63159375,"end":12541.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12530.32596875,"end":12530.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12530.39346875,"end":12531.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12535.472843750002,"end":12537.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12537.177218750003,"end":12538.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12541.73346875,"end":12542.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12541.88534375,"end":12542.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12542.56034375,"end":12542.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12542.644718750002,"end":12542.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12542.88096875,"end":12544.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12544.973468750002,"end":12555.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12555.773468750001,"end":12556.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12556.634093750003,"end":12562.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12561.88221875,"end":12573.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12573.087218750003,"end":12614.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12614.211593750002,"end":12627.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12628.032218750002,"end":12642.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12644.82284375,"end":12644.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12644.839718750001,"end":12650.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12664.414718750002,"end":12667.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12667.35096875,"end":12668.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12671.55284375,"end":12672.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12672.46409375,"end":12673.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12673.965968750003,"end":12673.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12674.269718750002,"end":12676.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12677.47596875,"end":12681.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12681.981593750003,"end":12686.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12686.925968750002,"end":12690.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12690.621593750002,"end":12694.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12695.380343750003,"end":12700.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12700.999718750001,"end":12707.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12707.648468750001,"end":12710.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12710.230343750001,"end":12713.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12714.33096875,"end":12724.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12724.371593750002,"end":12729.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12729.94034375,"end":12738.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12739.54221875,"end":12740.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12741.887843750003,"end":12752.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12753.227843750003,"end":12759.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12759.42096875,"end":12761.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12762.239093750002,"end":12763.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12764.179718750001,"end":12765.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12765.546593750001,"end":12767.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12767.520968750003,"end":12769.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12769.52909375,"end":12769.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12770.74409375,"end":12771.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12772.212218750003,"end":12778.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12777.679718750001,"end":12779.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12779.063468750002,"end":12796.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12789.89721875,"end":12790.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12795.094718750002,"end":12800.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12800.96721875,"end":12808.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12808.965968750003,"end":12814.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12815.00721875,"end":12819.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12819.985343750002,"end":12820.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12821.16659375,"end":12831.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12831.629093750002,"end":12834.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12835.56096875,"end":12838.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12838.868468750003,"end":12846.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12846.563468750002,"end":12858.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12859.18596875,"end":12859.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12860.55284375,"end":12863.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12864.012218750002,"end":12877.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12877.64721875,"end":12877.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12878.997218750003,"end":12879.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12880.735343750002,"end":12881.798468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12882.051593750002,"end":12886.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12887.046593750001,"end":12888.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12889.527218750001,"end":12899.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12899.972843750002,"end":12904.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12904.42784375,"end":12920.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12921.40409375,"end":12926.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12927.141593750002,"end":12931.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12932.625968750002,"end":12938.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12939.54471875,"end":12944.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12945.265343750001,"end":12947.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12947.543468750002,"end":12955.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12955.862843750001,"end":12970.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12971.15159375,"end":12984.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12985.05659375,"end":12985.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12986.423468750003,"end":13003.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13004.53034375,"end":13008.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13008.867218750001,"end":13033.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13034.129093750002,"end":13036.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13037.250968750002,"end":13040.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13040.625968750002,"end":13045.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13045.890968750002,"end":13057.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13058.395343750002,"end":13060.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13061.83784375,"end":13071.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13064.402843750002,"end":13065.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13072.50284375,"end":13073.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13073.734718750002,"end":13082.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13083.30284375,"end":13083.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13084.93971875,"end":13089.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13089.20909375,"end":13089.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13089.22596875,"end":13089.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13089.445343750001,"end":13091.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13091.41971875,"end":13092.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13092.65159375,"end":13125.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13113.89721875,"end":13114.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13114.032218750002,"end":13114.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13124.579093750002,"end":13128.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13129.101593750001,"end":13135.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13135.902218750001,"end":13159.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13159.88159375,"end":13161.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13161.434093750002,"end":13161.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13161.45096875,"end":13177.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13161.501593750003,"end":13161.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13170.124718750001,"end":13170.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13176.452843750001,"end":13176.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13176.469718750002,"end":13178.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13180.249718750001,"end":13185.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13190.52659375,"end":13190.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13190.56034375,"end":13191.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13191.167843750001,"end":13191.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13191.218468750001,"end":13191.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13198.74471875,"end":13200.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13204.48221875,"end":13206.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13208.61659375,"end":13212.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13215.079718750003,"end":13215.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13216.19346875,"end":13216.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13216.868468750003,"end":13218.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13220.63159375,"end":13221.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13222.42034375,"end":13223.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13225.37346875,"end":13227.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13228.02284375,"end":13230.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13231.296593750001,"end":13233.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13233.996593750002,"end":13238.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13240.847843750002,"end":13248.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13250.652218750001,"end":13252.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13254.195968750002,"end":13256.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13257.351593750001,"end":13258.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13259.055968750003,"end":13261.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13262.633468750002,"end":13264.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13265.097218750001,"end":13267.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13268.910968750002,"end":13270.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13271.03721875,"end":13271.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13272.218468750001,"end":13273.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13274.63159375,"end":13276.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13278.37784375,"end":13278.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13279.710968750001,"end":13281.314093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13282.613468750002,"end":13285.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13286.96721875,"end":13290.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13291.945343750001,"end":13293.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13295.320343750001,"end":13295.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13297.969718750002,"end":13301.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13302.340343750002,"end":13304.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13306.187843750002,"end":13307.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13308.364718750003,"end":13309.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13311.621593750002,"end":13314.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13315.75596875,"end":13316.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13317.308468750001,"end":13317.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13317.527843750002,"end":13320.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13321.999718750001,"end":13324.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13326.04971875,"end":13326.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13326.589718750001,"end":13327.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13328.05784375,"end":13330.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13333.305968750003,"end":13334.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13335.887843750003,"end":13337.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13337.33909375,"end":13338.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13339.17846875,"end":13341.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13342.789718750002,"end":13348.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13349.421593750001,"end":13352.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13352.965343750002,"end":13354.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13354.63596875,"end":13356.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13357.94346875,"end":13360.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13362.044093750003,"end":13364.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13365.16596875,"end":13367.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13368.70971875,"end":13372.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13372.439093750003,"end":13374.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13375.695968750002,"end":13376.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13377.67034375,"end":13384.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13386.715343750002,"end":13388.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13390.883468750002,"end":13391.423468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13392.33471875,"end":13393.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13395.43971875,"end":13395.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13396.266593750002,"end":13400.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13401.599093750003,"end":13402.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13404.062843750002,"end":13405.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13405.750343750002,"end":13406.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13408.450343750003,"end":13410.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13412.280968750001,"end":13415.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13417.02284375,"end":13417.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13418.085968750001,"end":13419.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13419.80721875,"end":13421.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13421.882843750001,"end":13423.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13423.485968750003,"end":13425.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13425.679718750001,"end":13426.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13427.60346875,"end":13431.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13431.83909375,"end":13434.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13434.84284375,"end":13436.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13436.867843750002,"end":13437.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13438.15034375,"end":13438.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13440.040343750003,"end":13441.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13442.824718750002,"end":13446.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13447.27971875,"end":13449.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13449.945968750002,"end":13451.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13452.54471875,"end":13454.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13455.632843750001,"end":13459.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13459.61534375,"end":13464.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13465.251593750003,"end":13466.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13468.626593750003,"end":13469.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13470.11159375,"end":13472.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13473.38534375,"end":13475.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13476.18659375,"end":13479.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13480.574093750001,"end":13483.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13485.19784375,"end":13486.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13487.40846875,"end":13487.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13488.25221875,"end":13490.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13491.289718750002,"end":13492.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13495.59284375,"end":13496.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13496.68971875,"end":13500.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13500.790343750003,"end":13501.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13502.882843750001,"end":13504.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13504.38471875,"end":13505.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13506.224093750003,"end":13507.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13508.755343750003,"end":13509.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13510.493468750003,"end":13512.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13513.63221875,"end":13514.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13515.79221875,"end":13517.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13518.492218750001,"end":13520.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13520.58471875,"end":13521.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13521.597218750001,"end":13524.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13527.030968750001,"end":13530.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13532.532218750002,"end":13533.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13533.54471875,"end":13535.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13535.417843750001,"end":13539.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13540.29471875,"end":13541.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13541.695343750001,"end":13543.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13544.327843750001,"end":13546.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13546.825343750003,"end":13550.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13551.48284375,"end":13551.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13552.579718750003,"end":13556.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13556.629718750002,"end":13558.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13558.55346875,"end":13560.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13560.08909375,"end":13561.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13560.71346875,"end":13560.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13560.899093750002,"end":13560.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13562.468468750001,"end":13563.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13564.35846875,"end":13566.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13568.05409375,"end":13571.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13572.239093750002,"end":13573.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13574.90534375,"end":13576.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13577.824718750002,"end":13579.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13580.423468750003,"end":13581.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13581.773468750001,"end":13582.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13582.414718750002,"end":13582.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13583.832218750002,"end":13584.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13585.35096875,"end":13587.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13588.08471875,"end":13590.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13591.965968750003,"end":13595.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13596.42096875,"end":13599.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13601.567843750003,"end":13606.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13607.204093750002,"end":13607.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13609.06034375,"end":13609.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13610.376593750003,"end":13611.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13611.54096875,"end":13612.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13612.77284375,"end":13613.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13613.734718750002,"end":13614.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13614.61221875,"end":13615.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13615.962218750003,"end":13617.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13617.56534375,"end":13618.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13619.55659375,"end":13621.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13622.324093750001,"end":13624.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13624.68659375,"end":13625.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13625.41221875,"end":13626.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13626.863468750002,"end":13628.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13629.040343750003,"end":13631.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13632.28034375,"end":13633.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13634.879093750002,"end":13635.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13636.17846875,"end":13639.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13640.54909375,"end":13644.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13645.30784375,"end":13649.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13650.79221875,"end":13651.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13652.243468750003,"end":13654.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13655.06159375,"end":13655.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13656.32721875,"end":13665.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13665.49034375,"end":13666.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13666.637843750003,"end":13667.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13666.789718750002,"end":13667.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13668.207218750002,"end":13669.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13670.957843750002,"end":13672.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13673.15159375,"end":13674.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13674.923468750003,"end":13676.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13676.89784375,"end":13678.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13679.294093750003,"end":13680.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13680.99846875,"end":13686.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13687.461593750002,"end":13689.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13689.75659375,"end":13693.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13694.07659375,"end":13700.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13701.113468750002,"end":13707.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13701.29909375,"end":13701.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13707.964718750001,"end":13709.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13710.37784375,"end":13714.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13714.37721875,"end":13718.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13719.743468750003,"end":13720.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13720.941593750002,"end":13721.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13721.66721875,"end":13726.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13734.94784375,"end":13737.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13738.54221875,"end":13739.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13741.42784375,"end":13743.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13741.74846875,"end":13741.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13741.90034375,"end":13741.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13741.91721875,"end":13741.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13741.934093750002,"end":13741.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13741.95096875,"end":13742.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13744.43159375,"end":13784.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13785.04971875,"end":13789.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13790.04471875,"end":13799.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13792.255343750003,"end":13792.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13796.035343750002,"end":13796.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13797.53721875,"end":13799.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13799.309093750002,"end":13799.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13799.359718750002,"end":13805.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13805.687843750002,"end":13827.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13828.70534375,"end":13830.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13830.03846875,"end":13842.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13843.875968750002,"end":13857.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13858.489718750003,"end":13887.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13887.430343750002,"end":13910.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13911.696593750003,"end":13927.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13928.622218750003,"end":13935.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13936.28346875,"end":13938.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13939.270343750002,"end":13948.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13949.88471875,"end":13950.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13951.36971875,"end":13974.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13974.809093750002,"end":14010.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14011.461593750002,"end":14013.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14014.02659375,"end":14044.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14044.671593750001,"end":14052.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14052.46784375,"end":14087.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14087.922218750002,"end":14107.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14108.121593750002,"end":14132.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14124.102218750002,"end":14124.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14132.57346875,"end":14162.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14163.37034375,"end":14164.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14164.973468750002,"end":14171.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14171.26784375,"end":14178.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14178.96284375,"end":14193.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14193.47534375,"end":14210.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14211.29534375,"end":14241.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14242.277843750002,"end":14247.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14247.84659375,"end":14248.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14250.242843750002,"end":14251.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14251.980968750002,"end":14254.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14255.32221875,"end":14274.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14275.082843750002,"end":14284.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14284.684718750003,"end":14286.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14287.148468750001,"end":14312.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14312.562218750001,"end":14313.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14313.574718750002,"end":14313.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14314.165343750003,"end":14319.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14319.51471875,"end":14322.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14322.653468750003,"end":14325.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14326.14659375,"end":14327.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14328.42471875,"end":14329.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14329.352843750003,"end":14334.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14335.22534375,"end":14337.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14338.414718750002,"end":14339.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14340.203468750002,"end":14363.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14364.250343750002,"end":14368.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14368.03034375,"end":14372.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14372.56971875,"end":14376.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14376.434093750002,"end":14379.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14380.31534375,"end":14381.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15168.00659375,"end":15175.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15175.65096875,"end":15179.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15179.71784375,"end":15183.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15183.734093750001,"end":15187.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15187.919093750003,"end":15192.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15192.239093750002,"end":15195.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15196.255343750003,"end":15201.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15207.98346875,"end":15213.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15213.585968750001,"end":15214.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15215.15534375,"end":15217.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15218.024093750002,"end":15219.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15220.26846875,"end":15222.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15222.22596875,"end":15226.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15225.43221875,"end":15226.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15226.17471875,"end":15226.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15226.44471875,"end":15226.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15226.613468750002,"end":15241.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15241.98659375,"end":15245.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15245.547218750002,"end":15248.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15248.41596875,"end":15250.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15251.26784375,"end":15261.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15262.489718750003,"end":15263.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15264.531593750002,"end":15267.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15266.55659375,"end":15274.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15276.732218750003,"end":15280.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15280.79909375,"end":15283.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15283.583468750003,"end":15285.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15286.45221875,"end":15291.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15291.227843750003,"end":15301.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15301.79159375,"end":15304.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15304.00221875,"end":15307.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15307.37721875,"end":15309.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15310.00971875,"end":15313.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15313.722218750001,"end":15315.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15315.477218750002,"end":15317.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15317.890343750001,"end":15321.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15321.78846875,"end":15322.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15323.138468750003,"end":15326.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15326.58096875,"end":15330.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15330.546593750001,"end":15331.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15331.84596875,"end":15337.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15338.27534375,"end":15341.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15342.308468750001,"end":15343.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15343.72596875,"end":15344.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15344.87346875,"end":15345.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15345.852218750002,"end":15347.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15348.585968750001,"end":15350.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15350.661593750003,"end":15352.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15350.89784375,"end":15351.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15353.05784375,"end":15354.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15354.00284375,"end":15355.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15355.335968750001,"end":15355.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15355.36971875,"end":15359.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15360.499718750001,"end":15362.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15361.74846875,"end":15363.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15364.07721875,"end":15364.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15364.667843750001,"end":15365.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15365.359718750002,"end":15366.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15366.827843750001,"end":15368.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15368.86971875,"end":15370.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15370.523468750001,"end":15371.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15371.940968750001,"end":15372.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15373.594718750002,"end":15378.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15378.62346875,"end":15380.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15381.15471875,"end":15381.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15382.184093750002,"end":15383.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15383.31471875,"end":15401.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15401.050343750001,"end":15402.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15403.007843750001,"end":15404.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15405.066593750002,"end":15407.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15408.222218750001,"end":15409.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15411.79971875,"end":15416.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15416.052218750003,"end":15421.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15422.329718750003,"end":15423.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15423.966593750003,"end":15426.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15426.480968750002,"end":15427.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15427.527218750001,"end":15428.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15429.214718750001,"end":15432.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15432.89346875,"end":15444.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15444.790343750003,"end":15446.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15447.304718750001,"end":15451.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15452.468468750001,"end":15454.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15454.965968750003,"end":15457.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15457.581593750001,"end":15460.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15461.665343750003,"end":15464.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15465.10784375,"end":15467.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15467.352218750002,"end":15468.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15468.989093750002,"end":15483.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15483.552218750003,"end":15484.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15485.020343750002,"end":15487.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15487.956593750001,"end":15488.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15489.62721875,"end":15491.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15491.53409375,"end":15493.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15493.79534375,"end":15494.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15494.79096875,"end":15497.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15498.13221875,"end":15500.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15500.089718750001,"end":15502.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15502.199093750001,"end":15503.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15503.937218750001,"end":15506.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15506.586593750002,"end":15509.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15509.97846875,"end":15512.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15512.492843750002,"end":15514.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15514.484093750001,"end":15514.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15514.99034375,"end":15515.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15515.024093750002,"end":15518.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15515.175968750002,"end":15516.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15518.871593750002,"end":15520.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15520.677218750003,"end":15522.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15524.11971875,"end":15531.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15533.485343750002,"end":15548.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15547.609718750002,"end":15550.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15550.394093750001,"end":15552.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15551.76096875,"end":15553.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15552.925343750001,"end":15553.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15553.347218750001,"end":15553.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15553.97159375,"end":15554.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15554.039093750001,"end":15554.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15554.055968750003,"end":15554.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15554.59596875,"end":15557.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15557.02596875,"end":15557.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15557.97096875,"end":15558.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15558.03846875,"end":15558.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15559.000343750002,"end":15560.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15560.56971875,"end":15562.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15562.628468750001,"end":15564.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15564.383468750002,"end":15565.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15566.172218750002,"end":15566.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15566.594093750002,"end":15568.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15568.905968750001,"end":15570.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15570.94784375,"end":15572.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15572.939093750003,"end":15575.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15575.925968750002,"end":15576.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15576.63471875,"end":15578.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15579.368468750003,"end":15581.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15581.54534375,"end":15583.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15583.671593750001,"end":15584.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15585.07221875,"end":15586.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15587.586593750002,"end":15588.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15588.531593750002,"end":15591.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15591.602843750003,"end":15594.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15595.669718750003,"end":15619.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15602.149718750003,"end":15606.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15620.273468750001,"end":15624.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15620.442218750002,"end":15620.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15624.99846875,"end":15633.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15633.48659375,"end":15636.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15637.688468750002,"end":15638.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15638.481593750003,"end":15638.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15639.56159375,"end":15642.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15643.392218750003,"end":15644.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15644.421593750001,"end":15646.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15646.277843750002,"end":15647.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15647.50971875,"end":15659.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15659.59221875,"end":15665.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15665.97096875,"end":15668.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15669.76784375,"end":15670.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15670.797218750002,"end":15672.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15673.395968750003,"end":15674.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15675.066593750002,"end":15676.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15676.46721875,"end":15677.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15678.357218750003,"end":15679.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15679.673468750003,"end":15681.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15682.761593750001,"end":15684.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15684.65159375,"end":15687.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15688.094093750002,"end":15700.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15701.222843750002,"end":15702.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15703.58534375,"end":15704.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15705.863468750002,"end":15707.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15707.652218750001,"end":15709.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15710.099093750003,"end":15713.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15714.80721875,"end":15716.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15717.220343750003,"end":15718.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15720.409718750001,"end":15720.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15721.03409375,"end":15722.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15723.278468750003,"end":15728.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15728.813468750002,"end":15733.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15733.63971875,"end":15739.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15740.254718750002,"end":15742.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15742.735343750002,"end":15744.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15745.637843750003,"end":15748.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15749.29971875,"end":15749.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15749.99159375,"end":15751.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15751.695968750002,"end":15755.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15755.020343750002,"end":15763.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15757.61909375,"end":15757.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15763.035968750002,"end":15763.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15763.390343750001,"end":15763.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15763.49159375,"end":15763.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15763.660343750002,"end":15763.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15763.727843750003,"end":15764.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15764.706593750001,"end":15764.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15765.06096875,"end":15765.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15765.094718750002,"end":15765.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15767.153468750003,"end":15769.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15770.07284375,"end":15771.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15772.519718750002,"end":15778.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15779.13471875,"end":15791.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15791.74034375,"end":15795.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15799.77284375,"end":15802.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15802.388468750003,"end":15803.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15804.83534375,"end":15806.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15805.814093750003,"end":15814.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15816.816593750002,"end":15820.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15823.667843750001,"end":15826.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15827.633468750002,"end":15828.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15828.91596875,"end":15831.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15833.45534375,"end":15833.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15836.03721875,"end":15854.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15854.532218750002,"end":15854.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15855.24096875,"end":15855.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15856.169093750003,"end":15856.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15856.962218750003,"end":15861.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21482.86784375,"end":21493.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21494.37659375,"end":21506.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21507.47159375,"end":21508.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21508.60221875,"end":21511.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21511.538468749997,"end":21516.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21516.63471875,"end":21519.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21520.178468750004,"end":21520.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21521.39346875,"end":21524.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21524.684093750002,"end":21526.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21526.371593750002,"end":21528.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21528.801593750002,"end":21530.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21533.661593750003,"end":21536.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21536.76659375,"end":21538.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21546.874718749998,"end":21547.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21548.967218750004,"end":21551.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21551.481593750003,"end":21552.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21554.147843749997,"end":21556.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21556.037843750004,"end":21558.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21558.771593750003,"end":21560.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21560.91471875,"end":21563.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21563.27721875,"end":21564.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21564.96471875,"end":21565.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21565.25159375,"end":21566.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21566.97284375,"end":21567.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21569.60534375,"end":21569.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21570.179093749997,"end":21570.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":21572.609093749998,"end":21572.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21575.967218750004,"end":21576.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21576.42284375,"end":21576.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21576.709718750004,"end":21576.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21576.76034375,"end":21577.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21580.202843749998,"end":21580.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21580.96221875,"end":21587.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21599.474093750003,"end":21604.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21605.78534375,"end":21609.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21611.97846875,"end":21612.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21613.22721875,"end":21614.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21614.94846875,"end":21617.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21617.614718750003,"end":21619.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21620.01096875,"end":21622.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21623.419718750003,"end":21625.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21625.866593749997,"end":21627.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21627.975968749997,"end":21628.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21628.077218750004,"end":21630.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21631.232843750004,"end":21644.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21645.52596875,"end":21649.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21649.66034375,"end":21650.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21651.34784375,"end":21652.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21652.950968750003,"end":21653.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21653.98034375,"end":21655.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21655.65096875,"end":21656.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21657.45659375,"end":21658.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21659.498468750004,"end":21662.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21663.02534375,"end":21669.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21669.539093749998,"end":21671.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21671.56409375,"end":21674.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21674.888468750003,"end":21677.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21677.60534375,"end":21679.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21680.32221875,"end":21681.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21682.465343750002,"end":21683.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21683.950343750003,"end":21684.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21685.772843749997,"end":21687.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21688.03409375,"end":21689.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21689.90721875,"end":21692.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21693.19784375,"end":21695.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21696.13409375,"end":21699.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21700.082843750002,"end":21700.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21701.044718750003,"end":21701.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21701.669093750003,"end":21705.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21705.702218750004,"end":21706.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21707.592218750004,"end":21710.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21711.169718750003,"end":21712.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21714.359093749998,"end":21723.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21723.623468750004,"end":21735.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21735.89159375,"end":21737.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21738.051593750002,"end":21739.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21739.739093750002,"end":21740.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21740.85284375,"end":21745.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21745.40909375,"end":21750.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21750.707843750002,"end":21753.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21754.605968750002,"end":21756.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21756.749093750004,"end":21758.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21758.47034375,"end":21759.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21759.97221875,"end":21763.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21763.95471875,"end":21764.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21764.29221875,"end":21768.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21768.73034375,"end":21769.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21770.38409375,"end":21776.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21777.15096875,"end":21779.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21779.935343750003,"end":21783.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21783.529718750004,"end":21785.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21786.12846875,"end":21787.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21787.69784375,"end":21791.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21791.37659375,"end":21794.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21795.325343750003,"end":21798.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21798.717218750004,"end":21802.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21802.716593750003,"end":21804.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21804.69096875,"end":21805.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21806.192843750003,"end":21813.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21814.427843750003,"end":21822.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21823.15221875,"end":21825.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21826.42596875,"end":21832.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21832.73721875,"end":21834.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21834.779093750003,"end":21835.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21836.179718749998,"end":21840.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21841.090343750002,"end":21843.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21843.60471875,"end":21846.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21846.54096875,"end":21848.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21848.599718750003,"end":21849.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21850.15221875,"end":21852.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21852.68346875,"end":21864.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21864.512843750003,"end":21866.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21867.34784375,"end":21870.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21872.08971875,"end":21873.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21874.215968750003,"end":21876.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21876.91596875,"end":21877.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21877.590968750003,"end":21880.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21880.61159375,"end":21881.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21881.826593750004,"end":21883.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21883.98659375,"end":21885.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21886.09596875,"end":21886.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21886.973468750002,"end":21888.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21888.795968750004,"end":21891.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21892.677218750003,"end":21896.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21896.76096875,"end":21901.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21902.700968750003,"end":21904.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21904.33784375,"end":21906.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21907.30784375,"end":21908.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21908.86034375,"end":21912.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21913.450343750003,"end":21916.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21917.41596875,"end":21919.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21919.76159375,"end":21925.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21925.701593750004,"end":21927.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21927.64221875,"end":21928.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21929.414093749998,"end":21929.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21930.325343750003,"end":21932.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21932.552843750003,"end":21934.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21934.83096875,"end":21935.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21935.97846875,"end":21936.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21936.63659375,"end":21937.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21937.733468750004,"end":21945.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21946.44096875,"end":21947.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21947.99346875,"end":21949.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21950.03534375,"end":21951.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21951.30096875,"end":21952.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21952.887218750002,"end":21954.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21955.16534375,"end":21956.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21957.17346875,"end":21958.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21959.029718750004,"end":21960.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21960.54846875,"end":21961.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21961.51034375,"end":21962.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21962.69159375,"end":21964.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21964.76721875,"end":21965.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21965.796593749998,"end":21967.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21967.92284375,"end":21968.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21969.154718750004,"end":21972.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21972.630968750003,"end":21975.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21976.29284375,"end":21978.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21978.554093749997,"end":21979.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21979.887218750002,"end":21987.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21988.18971875,"end":21990.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21990.50159375,"end":21995.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21996.559718750003,"end":21997.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21997.67346875,"end":21998.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21999.39471875,"end":22000.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22000.474718750003,"end":22001.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22002.280343750004,"end":22003.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22003.78221875,"end":22005.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22006.02659375,"end":22006.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22007.882843749998,"end":22008.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22011.05534375,"end":22012.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22013.83971875,"end":22014.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22014.413468749997,"end":22020.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22020.79221875,"end":22021.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22022.209718750004,"end":22023.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22023.71159375,"end":22024.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22024.67346875,"end":22025.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22026.88409375,"end":22028.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22028.28471875,"end":22029.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22030.309718750003,"end":22030.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22031.389718750004,"end":22035.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22036.553468750004,"end":22039.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22040.249093750004,"end":22044.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22044.31596875,"end":22046.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22047.26909375,"end":22047.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22047.927218750003,"end":22048.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22051.605968750002,"end":22053.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22053.749093750004,"end":22053.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22053.79971875,"end":22053.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22053.81659375,"end":22053.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22053.968468749998,"end":22054.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22054.137218750002,"end":22057.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22054.23846875,"end":22056.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22056.584093750003,"end":22056.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22056.685343750003,"end":22058.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22058.03534375,"end":22058.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22058.254718750002,"end":22058.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22058.96346875,"end":22060.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22060.819718749997,"end":22060.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22061.039093749998,"end":22068.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22063.215968750003,"end":22063.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22063.249718749998,"end":22063.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22063.26659375,"end":22063.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22063.60409375,"end":22063.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22063.654718750004,"end":22063.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22064.63346875,"end":22064.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22078.97721875,"end":22083.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22083.34784375,"end":22086.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22086.70596875,"end":22090.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22091.262218750002,"end":22093.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22093.67534375,"end":22095.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22097.33721875,"end":22100.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22101.48846875,"end":22105.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22105.639718750004,"end":22106.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22106.466593750003,"end":22112.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22112.33909375,"end":22116.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22116.86159375,"end":22117.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22117.72221875,"end":22118.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22118.14409375,"end":22122.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22119.359093749998,"end":22124.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22124.590343750002,"end":22128.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22126.02471875,"end":22127.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22128.184718750003,"end":22134.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22129.281593749998,"end":22131.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22131.64409375,"end":22131.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22132.45409375,"end":22135.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22134.968468749998,"end":22136.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22138.242218749998,"end":22139.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22138.78221875,"end":22142.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22145.734718749998,"end":22148.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22149.278468750003,"end":22149.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22149.312218749998,"end":22149.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22149.818468750003,"end":22150.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22149.86909375,"end":22150.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22150.780343750004,"end":22150.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22153.14284375,"end":22153.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22153.15971875,"end":22156.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22153.86846875,"end":22154.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22154.30721875,"end":22154.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22159.26846875,"end":22160.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22162.08659375,"end":22163.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22164.61784375,"end":22165.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22167.46971875,"end":22167.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22169.39346875,"end":22171.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22173.544718750003,"end":22174.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22175.08034375,"end":22175.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22176.278468750003,"end":22176.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22176.413468749997,"end":22177.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22176.44721875,"end":22176.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22177.62846875,"end":22181.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22200.359093749998,"end":22203.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22203.86909375,"end":22204.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22205.45534375,"end":22206.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22206.40034375,"end":22212.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22211.310968750004,"end":22211.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22211.68221875,"end":22212.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22212.61034375,"end":22212.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22213.97721875,"end":22214.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22215.39471875,"end":22218.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22219.427843750003,"end":22220.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22222.97159375,"end":22223.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22223.08971875,"end":22223.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22225.06409375,"end":22226.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22228.084718750004,"end":22232.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22249.65096875,"end":22250.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22252.60409375,"end":22254.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22254.021593750003,"end":22254.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22254.224093750003,"end":22255.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22254.764093750004,"end":22254.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22254.89909375,"end":22256.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22255.67534375,"end":22256.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22256.09721875,"end":22259.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22256.70471875,"end":22256.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22256.789093749998,"end":22256.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22256.856593750003,"end":22257.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22258.49346875,"end":22261.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22259.97846875,"end":22268.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22263.420968750004,"end":22266.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22267.67346875,"end":22268.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22268.365343750003,"end":22268.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22269.24284375,"end":22272.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22269.58034375,"end":22274.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22274.406593749998,"end":22282.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22275.621593750002,"end":22277.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22277.68034375,"end":22277.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22277.781593749998,"end":22277.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22277.950343750003,"end":22278.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22278.051593750002,"end":22278.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22278.11909375,"end":22278.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22282.35471875,"end":22285.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22283.62034375,"end":22283.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22283.637218750002,"end":22283.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22284.075968750003,"end":22284.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22285.93221875,"end":22294.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22286.11784375,"end":22288.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":22288.96971875,"end":22289.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22289.037218750003,"end":22289.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22291.281593749998,"end":22291.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":22291.31534375,"end":22294.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22294.99409375,"end":22300.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22302.621593750002,"end":22311.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22729.390343749998,"end":22733.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22733.86221875,"end":22735.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22738.114718750003,"end":22742.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22742.367218749998,"end":22742.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22744.39221875,"end":22744.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22744.72971875,"end":22746.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22746.72096875,"end":22748.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22754.179718749998,"end":22756.170968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22757.318468750003,"end":22761.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22761.28409375,"end":22762.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22762.02659375,"end":22762.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22762.53284375,"end":22766.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22767.73034375,"end":22768.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22769.40096875,"end":22771.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22772.23596875,"end":22772.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22773.029093750003,"end":22774.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22774.66596875,"end":22776.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22774.834718750004,"end":22780.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22780.57221875,"end":22785.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22786.562843749998,"end":22787.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":22787.96346875,"end":22796.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22795.89471875,"end":22801.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":22799.944718749997,"end":22800.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22800.029093750003,"end":22800.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22801.109093749998,"end":22803.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22802.357843750004,"end":22804.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22805.27721875,"end":22807.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22808.348468750002,"end":22809.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22810.08659375,"end":22812.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22813.57971875,"end":22814.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22815.621593750002,"end":22818.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22819.350968749997,"end":22823.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22824.919718750003,"end":22825.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22825.39221875,"end":22825.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22826.742218749998,"end":22826.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22826.99534375,"end":22828.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22828.48034375,"end":22836.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22829.037218750003,"end":22830.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22836.17534375,"end":22836.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22836.833468750003,"end":22837.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22837.44096875,"end":22837.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22838.47034375,"end":22838.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22838.50409375,"end":22864.913468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22839.85409375,"end":22840.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22858.551593750002,"end":22860.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22861.335968749998,"end":22861.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22861.97721875,"end":22863.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22865.132843749998,"end":22868.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22868.62596875,"end":22873.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22873.975343750004,"end":22878.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22877.772218750004,"end":22878.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22878.379718750002,"end":22878.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22878.480968750002,"end":22878.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22878.919718750003,"end":22878.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22878.97034375,"end":22879.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22879.037843750004,"end":22879.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22879.780343750004,"end":22880.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22880.03346875,"end":22889.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22882.007843749998,"end":22882.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22890.023468749998,"end":22890.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22890.05721875,"end":22890.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22890.107843750004,"end":22890.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22890.15846875,"end":22890.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22890.614093750002,"end":22890.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22890.749093750004,"end":22892.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22890.833468750003,"end":22890.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22890.850343750004,"end":22890.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22890.90096875,"end":22890.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22890.951593750004,"end":22891.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22891.491593749997,"end":22891.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22891.559093750002,"end":22894.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22892.60534375,"end":22892.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22894.17471875,"end":22894.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22894.208468750003,"end":22900.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22895.052218750003,"end":22896.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22909.05846875,"end":22911.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22911.522218750004,"end":22912.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22913.327843749998,"end":22913.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22914.54284375,"end":22915.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22916.31471875,"end":22918.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22919.115968750004,"end":22919.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22919.942843750003,"end":22921.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22922.11971875,"end":22923.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22924.43159375,"end":22925.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22926.912218750003,"end":22928.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22928.599718750003,"end":22929.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22930.287218750003,"end":22932.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22933.037843750004,"end":22933.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22934.25284375,"end":22935.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22936.294718750003,"end":22943.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22944.59721875,"end":22948.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22948.78221875,"end":22950.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22950.16596875,"end":22952.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22952.93346875,"end":22954.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22956.004718750002,"end":22957.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22957.89471875,"end":22958.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22959.32909375,"end":22960.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22961.320343749998,"end":22961.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22962.94034375,"end":22965.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22966.07909375,"end":22967.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22968.01971875,"end":22968.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22970.145968750003,"end":22971.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22971.344093749998,"end":22972.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22972.778468750003,"end":22974.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22975.49534375,"end":22976.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22977.233468750004,"end":22979.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22980.085343749997,"end":22981.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22983.19034375,"end":22984.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22984.67534375,"end":22985.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22985.41784375,"end":22986.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22986.818468750003,"end":22990.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22990.44659375,"end":22993.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22993.83846875,"end":22995.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22995.981593750003,"end":22997.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22997.82096875,"end":22999.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23000.132843749998,"end":23003.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23003.64284375,"end":23008.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23009.076593750004,"end":23011.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23012.29971875,"end":23016.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23016.569093750004,"end":23018.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23019.522218750004,"end":23020.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23021.395343750002,"end":23021.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23021.817218750002,"end":23026.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23025.90096875,"end":23029.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23029.37721875,"end":23030.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23030.085968749998,"end":23031.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23031.72284375,"end":23037.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23036.46471875,"end":23040.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23037.342218750004,"end":23039.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23039.873468750004,"end":23043.788468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23041.037843750004,"end":23043.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23044.109093749998,"end":23044.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23044.56471875,"end":23049.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23049.50909375,"end":23050.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23051.71971875,"end":23052.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23051.905343750004,"end":23054.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23052.79971875,"end":23054.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23054.04846875,"end":23060.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23054.38596875,"end":23054.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23054.976593749998,"end":23055.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23055.904718750004,"end":23055.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23055.97221875,"end":23056.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23057.254718750002,"end":23075.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23060.882843749998,"end":23060.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23060.89971875,"end":23060.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23060.93346875,"end":23061.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23061.03471875,"end":23061.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23061.96284375,"end":23062.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23063.414093749998,"end":23063.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23063.481593750003,"end":23064.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23064.93284375,"end":23064.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23064.983468750004,"end":23065.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23065.270343750002,"end":23065.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23065.624718749998,"end":23066.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23066.58659375,"end":23066.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23067.34596875,"end":23068.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23069.607218750003,"end":23069.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23070.029093750003,"end":23070.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23070.92346875,"end":23070.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23073.083468750003,"end":23074.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23076.10409375,"end":23078.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23078.365343750003,"end":23081.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23079.614093750002,"end":23079.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23080.00221875,"end":23080.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23080.137218750002,"end":23080.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23081.402843750002,"end":23081.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23081.639093750004,"end":23083.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23082.584093750003,"end":23084.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23085.72284375,"end":23088.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23088.74346875,"end":23090.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23090.160968750002,"end":23091.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23091.747218750003,"end":23092.523468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23093.19846875,"end":23093.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23094.76784375,"end":23098.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23100.89346875,"end":23101.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23102.15909375,"end":23102.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23103.00284375,"end":23104.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23104.79159375,"end":23105.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23106.765968749998,"end":23109.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23110.49534375,"end":23111.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23111.828468749998,"end":23113.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23113.56659375,"end":23114.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23115.94596875,"end":23117.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23117.262218750002,"end":23118.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23119.590968750003,"end":23120.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23121.12659375,"end":23121.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23121.97034375,"end":23122.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23122.965968750003,"end":23124.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23125.48034375,"end":23128.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23128.50096875,"end":23130.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23130.762218750002,"end":23132.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23132.39909375,"end":23134.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23135.115968750004,"end":23136.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23136.364718750003,"end":23137.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23137.562843749998,"end":23139.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23139.959093750003,"end":23141.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23142.01784375,"end":23143.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23144.76846875,"end":23146.827218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23147.552843750003,"end":23153.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23154.13409375,"end":23156.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23157.32346875,"end":23158.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23158.99409375,"end":23159.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23160.833468750003,"end":23163.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23164.107218750003,"end":23166.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23166.68909375,"end":23168.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23169.085343749997,"end":23170.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23172.08909375,"end":23173.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23174.012843750003,"end":23180.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23180.678468750004,"end":23189.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23190.19596875,"end":23191.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23192.052218750003,"end":23195.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23196.405968749998,"end":23197.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23197.418468750002,"end":23198.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23198.599718750003,"end":23202.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23203.40909375,"end":23205.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23205.80534375,"end":23207.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23208.13409375,"end":23208.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23209.382843749998,"end":23211.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23211.914093749998,"end":23214.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23215.356593750003,"end":23219.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23219.96346875,"end":23235.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23228.28284375,"end":23228.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23228.434718750003,"end":23229.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23230.375343749998,"end":23232.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23235.77534375,"end":23240.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23240.466593750003,"end":23242.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23242.980968750002,"end":23256.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23243.90909375,"end":23244.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23244.19596875,"end":23244.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23245.19159375,"end":23245.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23245.27596875,"end":23245.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23245.427843750003,"end":23245.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23245.512218750002,"end":23245.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23245.950968750003,"end":23245.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23245.967843750004,"end":23246.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23247.435968750004,"end":23247.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23247.48659375,"end":23249.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23253.257843749998,"end":23253.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23253.27471875,"end":23253.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23253.59534375,"end":23253.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23256.98721875,"end":23263.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23257.10534375,"end":23259.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23259.73784375,"end":23260.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23260.412843750004,"end":23262.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23263.686593750004,"end":23264.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23264.36159375,"end":23267.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23267.95596875,"end":23270.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23271.280343750004,"end":23272.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23273.389718750004,"end":23275.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23275.63409375,"end":23277.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23277.507218750005,"end":23278.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23279.802218750003,"end":23280.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23283.413468750005,"end":23288.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23285.505968750003,"end":23291.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23292.036593750003,"end":23293.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23293.099718750003,"end":23300.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23297.58846875,"end":23298.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23298.97221875,"end":23299.022843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23299.022843750005,"end":23299.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23299.39409375,"end":23299.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23299.427843750003,"end":23299.444718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23299.90034375,"end":23299.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23299.91721875,"end":23299.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23299.934093750002,"end":23300.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23300.03534375,"end":23300.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23300.33909375,"end":23300.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23300.96346875,"end":23301.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23300.997218750003,"end":23301.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23301.014093750004,"end":23301.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23301.030968749998,"end":23301.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23301.030968749998,"end":23301.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23301.621593750002,"end":23302.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23301.975968750005,"end":23311.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23302.12784375,"end":23302.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23302.178468750004,"end":23302.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23302.195343749998,"end":23302.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23302.24596875,"end":23302.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23302.41471875,"end":23303.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23303.51159375,"end":23303.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23303.528468750003,"end":23303.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23303.747843750003,"end":23303.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23303.764718750004,"end":23303.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23303.81534375,"end":23304.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23304.186593750004,"end":23307.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23311.81409375,"end":23315.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23312.43846875,"end":23315.999093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23315.965343750002,"end":23316.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23330.41034375,"end":23333.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23334.240968750004,"end":23337.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23339.742218749998,"end":23340.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23340.29909375,"end":23347.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23345.310968750004,"end":23345.429093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23347.58909375,"end":23348.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23350.272218750004,"end":23354.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23351.68971875,"end":23352.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23353.866593750005,"end":23353.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23353.967843750004,"end":23354.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23354.777843750002,"end":23355.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23355.030968749998,"end":23355.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23355.14909375,"end":23355.351593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23355.351593749998,"end":23355.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23355.975968750005,"end":23356.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23356.97159375,"end":23357.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23357.07284375,"end":23357.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23358.32159375,"end":23359.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23364.97034375,"end":23365.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23366.01659375,"end":23366.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23369.08784375,"end":23372.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23374.099718750003,"end":23376.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23376.023468749998,"end":23376.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23379.51659375,"end":23379.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23380.444718750005,"end":23381.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23382.942218750002,"end":23384.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23385.22034375,"end":23389.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23389.793468750002,"end":23392.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23392.982843750004,"end":23394.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23397.04971875,"end":23397.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23398.07909375,"end":23399.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23400.694718750005,"end":23401.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23402.61846875,"end":23405.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23403.344093749998,"end":23403.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23403.36096875,"end":23405.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23406.246593750002,"end":23418.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23406.61784375,"end":23407.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23409.04784375,"end":23409.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23410.482218750003,"end":23410.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23410.515968749998,"end":23411.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23411.984093749998,"end":23412.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23412.00096875,"end":23412.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":23412.22034375,"end":23412.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23412.77721875,"end":23414.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23415.848468750002,"end":23418.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23418.88596875,"end":23423.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23423.74596875,"end":23425.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23424.201593750004,"end":23425.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23425.39971875,"end":23425.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23425.41659375,"end":23425.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23425.51784375,"end":23425.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23425.53471875,"end":23425.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23425.585343750005,"end":23436.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23428.58909375,"end":23429.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":23429.97284375,"end":23432.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23433.280343750004,"end":23433.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":23433.297218749998,"end":23433.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":23435.10284375,"end":23436.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23436.030968749998,"end":23438.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":23436.199718750002,"end":23436.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":23437.094093749998,"end":23439.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23439.068468750003,"end":23439.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23439.96284375,"end":23447.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23446.881593750004,"end":23449.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23449.26096875,"end":23451.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23452.18034375,"end":23452.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23452.264718750004,"end":23460.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23458.32284375,"end":23459.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23460.22971875,"end":23460.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23460.364718750003,"end":23460.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23460.820343749998,"end":23460.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23460.87096875,"end":23462.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23463.08159375,"end":23466.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23468.076593750004,"end":23473.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23470.65846875,"end":23471.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23471.114093750002,"end":23471.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23471.18159375,"end":23471.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23471.19846875,"end":23471.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23471.232218750003,"end":23471.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23472.059093750002,"end":23472.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23473.240343750003,"end":23473.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23473.27409375,"end":23473.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23473.662218750003,"end":23473.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23473.679093750005,"end":23475.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23474.725343750004,"end":23477.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23478.79221875,"end":23481.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23481.10409375,"end":23481.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23481.357218750003,"end":23483.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23484.090968750003,"end":23484.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23484.647843750005,"end":23486.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23487.19596875,"end":23494.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23494.70534375,"end":23495.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23495.97096875,"end":23495.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23496.73034375,"end":23497.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23499.177218750003,"end":23499.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23499.22784375,"end":23500.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23500.476593749998,"end":23500.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23500.72971875,"end":23500.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23500.763468750003,"end":23504.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23504.965343750002,"end":23505.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23505.26909375,"end":23505.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23507.02409375,"end":23509.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23510.73659375,"end":23510.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23510.75346875,"end":23511.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23511.614093750002,"end":23513.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23513.740343750003,"end":23515.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23515.37721875,"end":23516.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23515.630343750003,"end":23515.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23515.68096875,"end":23516.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23516.45721875,"end":23520.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23516.52471875,"end":23516.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23516.64284375,"end":23517.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23517.537218750003,"end":23518.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23520.43971875,"end":23521.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23520.827843749998,"end":23522.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23521.570343749998,"end":23521.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23522.78534375,"end":23526.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23526.919718750003,"end":23528.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23528.505968750003,"end":23531.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23528.55659375,"end":23529.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23532.404093750003,"end":23534.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23535.72846875,"end":23535.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23535.84659375,"end":23538.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23538.24284375,"end":23538.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23538.81659375,"end":23541.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23540.436593750004,"end":23540.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23541.73596875,"end":23542.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23543.389718750004,"end":23545.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23545.95471875,"end":23547.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23546.781593749998,"end":23549.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23548.148468749998,"end":23549.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23549.279093750003,"end":23549.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23549.32971875,"end":23550.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23549.819093750004,"end":23550.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23551.45596875,"end":23555.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23556.653468750003,"end":23559.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23635.20659375,"end":23640.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23646.37784375,"end":23646.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23646.968468749998,"end":23647.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23677.57971875,"end":23685.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23686.911593750003,"end":23688.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23688.953468749998,"end":23693.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23694.23534375,"end":23696.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23697.576593750004,"end":23699.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23700.24284375,"end":23700.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23701.474718750003,"end":23704.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23704.444718750005,"end":23704.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23705.30534375,"end":23707.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23707.684718750003,"end":23708.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23708.764718750004,"end":23709.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23709.45659375,"end":23712.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23712.342218750004,"end":23715.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23714.974718750003,"end":23715.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":23715.531593749998,"end":23715.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23761.12784375,"end":23764.350968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23765.63346875,"end":23766.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24082.664093749998,"end":24088.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24091.45596875,"end":24092.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":24092.535968750002,"end":24105.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24106.32284375,"end":24106.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":24106.96409375,"end":24107.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24107.031593749998,"end":24107.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24108.01034375,"end":24108.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24114.827843749998,"end":24116.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24117.257843749998,"end":24117.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24117.679718749998,"end":24118.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24123.21471875,"end":24123.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24123.889718750004,"end":24125.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24126.100343750004,"end":24126.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24127.585343750005,"end":24128.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24130.184093750002,"end":24132.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24133.00221875,"end":24134.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24135.786593750003,"end":24137.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24138.030968749998,"end":24138.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24139.24596875,"end":24140.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24141.625343749998,"end":24144.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24145.67534375,"end":24146.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24146.73846875,"end":24151.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24152.037218750003,"end":24153.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24153.944093750004,"end":24154.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24155.209718750004,"end":24158.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24158.65221875,"end":24160.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24160.84596875,"end":24162.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24163.90034375,"end":24166.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24167.61284375,"end":24167.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24168.895343750002,"end":24173.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24173.535968750002,"end":24177.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24178.395968750003,"end":24180.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24181.18034375,"end":24181.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24182.05784375,"end":24183.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24184.69034375,"end":24185.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24186.630968750003,"end":24187.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24187.592843750004,"end":24189.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24190.208468750003,"end":24191.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24191.84534375,"end":24193.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24194.05596875,"end":24195.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24195.726593749998,"end":24200.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24201.00846875,"end":24201.413468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24201.480968750002,"end":24202.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24203.185343750003,"end":24206.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24206.965343750002,"end":24207.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24207.37034375,"end":24211.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24212.264093750004,"end":24212.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24214.356593750003,"end":24215.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24216.044093750003,"end":24217.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24218.828468749998,"end":24221.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24222.22034375,"end":24223.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24227.654093750003,"end":24231.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24231.569093750004,"end":24235.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24234.842843750004,"end":24235.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24236.715968750003,"end":24237.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24237.779093750003,"end":24239.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24240.17534375,"end":24242.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24250.536593750003,"end":24253.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24253.89471875,"end":24254.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24254.569718750005,"end":24254.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24254.72159375,"end":24254.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24254.974718750003,"end":24255.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24255.599093750003,"end":24256.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24266.601593749998,"end":24267.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24267.023468749998,"end":24267.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24268.187843749998,"end":24268.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24268.592843750004,"end":24268.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24268.66034375,"end":24268.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24268.980968750002,"end":24269.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24269.841593750003,"end":24269.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24269.976593749998,"end":24270.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24270.19596875,"end":24270.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24270.65159375,"end":24271.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24272.609093749998,"end":24276.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24276.304718749998,"end":24276.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24276.405968749998,"end":24276.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24276.45659375,"end":24277.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24277.48596875,"end":24279.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24279.865343750003,"end":24281.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24281.18159375,"end":24286.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24286.88534375,"end":24289.163468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24290.547218749998,"end":24290.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24290.969093749998,"end":24293.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24294.04034375,"end":24301.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24294.512843750003,"end":24298.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24300.435968750004,"end":24303.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24303.186593750004,"end":24303.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24303.203468749998,"end":24304.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24303.22034375,"end":24303.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24306.038468750005,"end":24310.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24308.19846875,"end":24311.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24311.47221875,"end":24314.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24311.79284375,"end":24311.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24311.809718750003,"end":24311.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24311.843468749998,"end":24311.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24311.86034375,"end":24321.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24314.796593749998,"end":24315.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24315.03284375,"end":24315.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24315.302843750003,"end":24315.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24316.11284375,"end":24320.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24320.41596875,"end":24320.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24320.51721875,"end":24323.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24321.04034375,"end":24321.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24321.49596875,"end":24321.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24321.59721875,"end":24321.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24321.715343750002,"end":24321.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24321.765968749998,"end":24321.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24321.78284375,"end":24321.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24321.968468749998,"end":24323.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24323.402843750002,"end":24323.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24324.61784375,"end":24328.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24324.719093749998,"end":24328.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24329.08971875,"end":24330.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24329.241593750005,"end":24330.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24331.26659375,"end":24331.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24332.22846875,"end":24341.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24332.86971875,"end":24333.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24333.561593750004,"end":24334.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24336.953468749998,"end":24337.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24341.982218750003,"end":24342.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24342.75846875,"end":24342.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24342.97784375,"end":24343.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24343.60221875,"end":24343.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24343.703468749998,"end":24343.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24343.787843750004,"end":24343.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24356.342843750004,"end":24357.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24357.54096875,"end":24359.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24359.97096875,"end":24360.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24362.856593750003,"end":24364.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24363.64971875,"end":24366.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24367.851593749998,"end":24369.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24369.79221875,"end":24371.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24549.257843749998,"end":24552.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24554.742218749998,"end":24555.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24556.497218750003,"end":24557.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24557.864093750002,"end":24560.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24563.97284375,"end":24564.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24566.453468749998,"end":24567.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24567.02721875,"end":24567.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24567.11159375,"end":24567.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24568.29284375,"end":24568.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24568.49534375,"end":24569.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24568.512218750002,"end":24569.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24569.03534375,"end":24569.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24569.42346875,"end":24570.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":24571.684718750003,"end":24575.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24577.97909375,"end":24584.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24761.51159375,"end":24762.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24763.90784375,"end":24764.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24765.47721875,"end":24766.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24768.396593750003,"end":24769.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24770.96159375,"end":24772.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24773.10471875,"end":24774.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24774.707843750002,"end":24776.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24778.116593750005,"end":24779.382218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24780.310343750003,"end":24780.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24782.35221875,"end":24783.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24784.27596875,"end":24786.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24788.39346875,"end":24788.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24791.835968749998,"end":24795.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24796.00409375,"end":24797.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24798.61971875,"end":24799.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24800.357843750004,"end":24802.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24803.04096875,"end":24804.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24806.01096875,"end":24806.804093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24808.609718749998,"end":24813.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24813.82409375,"end":24817.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24818.32971875,"end":24820.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24820.945343749998,"end":24822.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24822.717218750004,"end":24825.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24827.020343750002,"end":24828.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24829.11284375,"end":24829.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24831.71159375,"end":24832.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24833.01096875,"end":24834.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24836.80784375,"end":24839.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24841.161593750003,"end":24841.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24843.96284375,"end":24844.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24846.460343750005,"end":24849.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26314.703468749998,"end":26314.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26314.73721875,"end":26324.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26324.96346875,"end":26332.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26332.03409375,"end":26343.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26344.656593749998,"end":26345.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26346.36096875,"end":26350.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26351.01846875,"end":26358.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":26358.89909375,"end":26359.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":26360.147843750005,"end":26362.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":26371.97721875,"end":26371.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":26371.99409375,"end":26375.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":26373.647843750005,"end":26375.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":26387.367218749998,"end":26388.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26388.02534375,"end":26394.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26395.264718750004,"end":26396.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26396.969093749998,"end":26397.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26397.694718750005,"end":26398.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26397.812843749998,"end":26400.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26398.70721875,"end":26398.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26399.685968750004,"end":26403.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26402.57159375,"end":26410.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26404.765343749998,"end":26409.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26409.389093750004,"end":26412.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26410.975343750004,"end":26415.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26413.47284375,"end":26418.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26419.37909375,"end":26423.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26420.74596875,"end":26425.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26423.37846875,"end":26427.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26426.669093750003,"end":26426.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26426.97284375,"end":26427.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26427.023468749998,"end":26427.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26427.91784375,"end":26427.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26427.951593750004,"end":26427.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26427.968468749998,"end":26429.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26427.98534375,"end":26428.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26428.23846875,"end":26429.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26429.031593749998,"end":26429.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26429.335343750005,"end":26429.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26429.436593750004,"end":26434.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26429.976593749998,"end":26430.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26430.02721875,"end":26434.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26434.66784375,"end":26440.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26435.342843750004,"end":26438.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26440.607843750004,"end":26442.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":26441.29971875,"end":26450.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26443.054718749998,"end":26445.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26445.974093750003,"end":26446.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26450.969093749998,"end":26451.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26452.58909375,"end":26457.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26458.37721875,"end":26461.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26459.406593749998,"end":26462.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26463.203468749998,"end":26465.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26466.257843749998,"end":26469.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26478.694718750005,"end":26480.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26634.41721875,"end":26634.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26635.176593750002,"end":26635.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26635.817843750003,"end":26636.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26637.79221875,"end":26637.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26637.97784375,"end":26638.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26640.96471875,"end":26641.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26647.950968750003,"end":26648.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26670.36096875,"end":26671.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":26671.710968749998,"end":26672.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26672.47034375,"end":26676.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":26672.520968750003,"end":26672.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26683.96221875,"end":26684.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26685.717218750004,"end":26685.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":26685.734093749998,"end":26687.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26687.97846875,"end":26688.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":26688.80534375,"end":26688.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":26690.72909375,"end":26691.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26691.707843750002,"end":26691.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26692.568468750003,"end":26693.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26694.559718750003,"end":26696.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26696.85471875,"end":26697.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26698.694093750004,"end":26699.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26731.65096875,"end":26731.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":26778.749093750004,"end":26778.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26797.716593750003,"end":26798.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26802.458468750003,"end":26802.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26814.96284375,"end":26815.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26815.975343750004,"end":26816.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26816.97096875,"end":26817.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26817.342218750004,"end":26817.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26817.966593750003,"end":26818.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26818.96221875,"end":26820.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26842.975343750004,"end":26844.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26845.43909375,"end":26846.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26846.755343750003,"end":26847.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26847.88596875,"end":26847.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26848.155968749998,"end":26849.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26882.850968750005,"end":26883.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26883.762218750002,"end":26883.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26883.914093749998,"end":26884.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26885.044718750003,"end":26886.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26887.069718750005,"end":26887.913468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26898.73034375,"end":26899.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26903.742218749998,"end":26910.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26905.277843750002,"end":26905.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26905.80096875,"end":26906.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26908.95659375,"end":26908.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26925.662843750004,"end":26925.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26925.79784375,"end":26925.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":26954.046593749998,"end":26954.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26954.06346875,"end":26956.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":26956.037843750004,"end":26956.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26956.08846875,"end":26956.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26956.240343750003,"end":26956.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":26956.42596875,"end":26956.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26956.93221875,"end":26957.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":26957.03346875,"end":26959.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26959.68284375,"end":26960.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26962.889093750004,"end":26965.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26982.936593750004,"end":26983.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26985.50159375,"end":26988.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26993.01096875,"end":26993.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26993.51721875,"end":26994.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26994.90096875,"end":26996.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26996.419718750003,"end":26996.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26996.60534375,"end":26996.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26996.723468750002,"end":26996.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26996.757218750005,"end":26996.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26996.80784375,"end":26996.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26996.875343749998,"end":26996.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26996.89221875,"end":26996.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26996.976593749998,"end":26997.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27001.21221875,"end":27002.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":27007.945343749998,"end":27008.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27009.177218750003,"end":27011.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27011.97846875,"end":27012.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27018.71159375,"end":27022.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27022.62659375,"end":27031.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27030.23721875,"end":27032.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27032.00909375,"end":27032.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27032.02596875,"end":27032.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27033.865343750003,"end":27034.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27035.012843750003,"end":27044.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":27043.028468750003,"end":27043.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27043.062218749998,"end":27043.163468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":27043.163468750005,"end":27043.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27044.091593750003,"end":27045.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27046.55534375,"end":27050.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27050.217218750004,"end":27052.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27052.61346875,"end":27052.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27053.45721875,"end":27057.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27057.03471875,"end":27058.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27064.459718750004,"end":27065.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27066.434093750002,"end":27067.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27069.57284375,"end":27071.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27071.952218750004,"end":27073.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27078.179093750005,"end":27080.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27081.233468750004,"end":27082.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27093.40034375,"end":27095.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27098.27721875,"end":27105.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27105.09471875,"end":27105.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27105.297218749998,"end":27105.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27105.31409375,"end":27105.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27105.41534375,"end":27105.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27105.95534375,"end":27105.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27105.989093750002,"end":27109.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27110.123468750004,"end":27112.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27113.22846875,"end":27113.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27115.304093750005,"end":27117.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27126.28971875,"end":27129.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27133.25909375,"end":27138.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27139.19909375,"end":27140.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27141.17346875,"end":27144.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27144.295343750004,"end":27149.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27149.037218750003,"end":27149.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27149.74596875,"end":27150.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27150.117218749998,"end":27153.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27153.10409375,"end":27156.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27153.340343750002,"end":27154.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27155.500343749998,"end":27157.069718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27157.52534375,"end":27161.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27162.50346875,"end":27162.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27162.942218750002,"end":27163.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27163.02659375,"end":27175.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27164.07284375,"end":27164.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":27164.17409375,"end":27166.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27166.975343750004,"end":27169.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27169.86096875,"end":27169.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27169.96221875,"end":27170.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27170.215343750002,"end":27170.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27170.535968750002,"end":27170.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27170.552843750003,"end":27170.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27170.58659375,"end":27170.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27171.818468750003,"end":27173.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27174.73784375,"end":27176.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27176.560343750003,"end":27196.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27178.73721875,"end":27183.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27190.41471875,"end":27197.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27196.97909375,"end":27199.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27199.965968750003,"end":27204.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27200.03346875,"end":27236.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27207.50909375,"end":27211.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27213.246593750002,"end":27219.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27222.105968750002,"end":27225.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27225.97034375,"end":27226.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27226.442843750003,"end":27226.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27226.965968750003,"end":27227.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27227.03346875,"end":27227.944718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27237.05721875,"end":27245.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27243.014093750004,"end":27299.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27245.79846875,"end":27247.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27254.640968749998,"end":27254.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27258.67409375,"end":27259.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27259.585343750005,"end":27260.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27260.209718750004,"end":27260.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27261.981593750003,"end":27262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27263.027843750002,"end":27268.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27274.047218749998,"end":27274.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27276.20721875,"end":27277.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27277.709093750003,"end":27277.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27277.911593750003,"end":27277.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27277.96221875,"end":27278.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27278.046593749998,"end":27278.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27278.60346875,"end":27278.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27278.772218750004,"end":27278.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27291.293468750002,"end":27291.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27291.749093750004,"end":27291.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27291.88409375,"end":27292.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27295.326593750004,"end":27295.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27295.59659375,"end":27295.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27295.664093749998,"end":27295.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27299.140343749998,"end":27305.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27299.79846875,"end":27301.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27305.046593749998,"end":27305.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27305.40096875,"end":27305.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27305.434718750003,"end":27331.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27305.535968750002,"end":27305.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27320.67284375,"end":27320.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27320.858468750004,"end":27321.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27322.022843750005,"end":27322.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27325.02659375,"end":27325.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27325.98846875,"end":27339.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27339.48846875,"end":27355.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27339.640343749998,"end":27340.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27349.427843750003,"end":27357.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27358.304093750005,"end":27360.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27358.57409375,"end":27362.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27360.97034375,"end":27372.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27369.54284375,"end":27369.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27371.145968750003,"end":27383.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27373.272218750004,"end":27380.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27383.160968750002,"end":27383.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27383.177843750003,"end":27384.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27385.287218750003,"end":27388.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27385.810343750003,"end":27388.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27388.17284375,"end":27402.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27397.605968750002,"end":27398.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":27398.027843750002,"end":27398.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":27398.41596875,"end":27398.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":27398.93909375,"end":27400.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":27402.44909375,"end":27402.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27403.090343750002,"end":27410.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":27405.216593750003,"end":27408.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27408.895343750002,"end":27422.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27412.388468750003,"end":27412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27422.125343749998,"end":27424.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27423.559718750003,"end":27443.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27425.83784375,"end":27429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27429.97221875,"end":27430.022843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27430.022843750005,"end":27430.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27430.03971875,"end":27430.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27430.88346875,"end":27430.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27430.967843750004,"end":27431.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27439.084718750004,"end":27439.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27439.32096875,"end":27449.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27448.365968750004,"end":27448.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27448.484093749998,"end":27448.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27449.15909375,"end":27449.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27449.47971875,"end":27449.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27449.80034375,"end":27453.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27452.078468749998,"end":27452.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27453.46221875,"end":27463.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27456.786593750003,"end":27464.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27463.26659375,"end":27467.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27465.39284375,"end":27465.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27467.249093750004,"end":27469.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27470.97846875,"end":27479.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27472.007843749998,"end":27473.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27473.10471875,"end":27473.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27473.138468750003,"end":27473.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27473.42534375,"end":27474.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27474.03284375,"end":27476.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27476.631593750004,"end":27476.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27478.87596875,"end":27480.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27479.685968750004,"end":27479.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27482.402843750002,"end":27483.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27483.85409375,"end":27490.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27490.536593750003,"end":27498.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27490.671593749998,"end":27493.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27494.468468749998,"end":27505.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27498.974093750003,"end":27501.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27501.319718750005,"end":27501.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27504.255968750003,"end":27505.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27505.03221875,"end":27505.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27505.13346875,"end":27505.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27505.234718749998,"end":27505.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27505.97721875,"end":27507.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27506.905343750004,"end":27514.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27507.023468749998,"end":27507.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27507.68159375,"end":27507.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27507.732218750003,"end":27508.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27508.980968750002,"end":27509.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27509.67284375,"end":27509.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27509.723468750002,"end":27510.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27510.044093750003,"end":27510.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27510.19596875,"end":27510.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27510.263468750003,"end":27510.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27512.42346875,"end":27527.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27514.904093750003,"end":27515.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27515.005343750003,"end":27515.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27515.224718750003,"end":27515.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27515.89971875,"end":27515.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27515.967218750004,"end":27519.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27521.82284375,"end":27522.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":27522.44721875,"end":27522.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27522.64971875,"end":27523.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27523.037843750004,"end":27525.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27527.037218750003,"end":27527.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27527.84721875,"end":27529.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27527.880968750003,"end":27533.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27533.871593750002,"end":27538.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27538.27596875,"end":27542.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27538.61346875,"end":27542.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27542.039093749998,"end":27557.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27542.967218750004,"end":27543.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27543.051593750002,"end":27543.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27543.085343750005,"end":27543.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27543.25409375,"end":27545.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27548.687843749998,"end":27551.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27551.03346875,"end":27553.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27553.76721875,"end":27571.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27558.374093750004,"end":27561.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":27567.08159375,"end":27570.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27571.739093750002,"end":27583.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27583.484093749998,"end":27584.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27584.631593750004,"end":27588.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27585.54284375,"end":27588.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27588.867218749998,"end":27590.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":27590.318468750003,"end":27590.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27596.83221875,"end":27598.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27598.975343750004,"end":27599.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27600.966593750003,"end":27600.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27600.983468750004,"end":27602.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27601.13534375,"end":27602.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27602.029718750004,"end":27602.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27602.08034375,"end":27602.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27602.90721875,"end":27603.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27603.22784375,"end":27607.210343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27603.36284375,"end":27605.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":27606.53534375,"end":27608.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27607.277843750002,"end":27607.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27607.834718750004,"end":27607.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27607.919093750003,"end":27608.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":27608.22284375,"end":27608.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27608.93159375,"end":27608.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27617.723468750002,"end":27617.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27617.959718750004,"end":27617.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27617.976593749998,"end":27624.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27620.32221875,"end":27624.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27628.45596875,"end":27631.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":27631.358468750004,"end":27631.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27631.39221875,"end":27632.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27632.33721875,"end":27635.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27632.37096875,"end":27632.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":27633.164093749998,"end":27637.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":27635.340968750003,"end":27635.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27635.357843750004,"end":27635.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27638.26034375,"end":27642.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":27643.457843750002,"end":27644.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":27644.976593749998,"end":27645.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":27645.61784375,"end":27648.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":30421.80846875,"end":30423.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30430.262843750003,"end":30431.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30431.950343750003,"end":30432.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30432.186593750004,"end":30432.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30432.87846875,"end":30432.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30435.578468749998,"end":30435.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30435.747218750003,"end":30436.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30436.169093750003,"end":30436.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30443.796593750005,"end":30443.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":30443.84721875,"end":30444.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":30444.97784375,"end":30445.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":30447.96471875,"end":30448.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30477.209093750003,"end":30479.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30481.49534375,"end":30496.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30521.47221875,"end":30521.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30521.742218749998,"end":30521.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30521.826593750004,"end":30522.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30522.29909375,"end":30522.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30522.366593750005,"end":30522.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30551.52659375,"end":30552.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":30633.640343750005,"end":30635.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30746.93909375,"end":30747.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":30748.677218750003,"end":30749.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30750.53346875,"end":30750.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30913.07346875,"end":30913.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30913.343468750005,"end":30919.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30998.49471875,"end":30999.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":31000.92471875,"end":31001.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31037.71221875,"end":31037.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31038.97784375,"end":31038.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31039.85534375,"end":31041.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31041.137843750003,"end":31041.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31041.94784375,"end":31042.015343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31042.015343750005,"end":31042.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31042.03221875,"end":31043.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":31043.23034375,"end":31046.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31043.247218750003,"end":31043.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31047.381593750004,"end":31047.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31047.398468749998,"end":31050.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31051.22909375,"end":31053.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":31053.33846875,"end":31053.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31055.380343750003,"end":31058.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":31058.31659375,"end":31058.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":31058.38409375,"end":31058.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":31058.552843750003,"end":31058.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":31058.60346875,"end":31058.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":31058.974718750003,"end":31059.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31059.059093750002,"end":31059.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31059.801593750002,"end":31061.421593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31983.640343750005,"end":31984.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31984.669718750003,"end":31985.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31985.27721875,"end":31986.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31987.825343750003,"end":31988.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31989.24284375,"end":31989.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31990.10346875,"end":31991.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31991.622218750003,"end":31992.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31993.07346875,"end":31993.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31994.676593750002,"end":31995.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31995.68909375,"end":31996.397843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31996.95471875,"end":31998.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31999.58721875,"end":32000.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32002.202843750005,"end":32003.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32004.312218750005,"end":32005.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32005.459718750004,"end":32006.843468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32007.41721875,"end":32009.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32010.13409375,"end":32013.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32014.67346875,"end":32018.014718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32018.47034375,"end":32019.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32020.005968750003,"end":32022.452843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32022.857843750004,"end":32024.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32025.304718749998,"end":32027.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32029.304093750005,"end":32030.890343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32031.312218750005,"end":32031.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32032.645343750002,"end":32034.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32034.889718750004,"end":32037.218468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32037.69096875,"end":32038.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32039.631593750004,"end":32040.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32041.825343750003,"end":32042.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32042.922218749998,"end":32043.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32044.20471875,"end":32044.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32045.14971875,"end":32046.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32047.208468750003,"end":32047.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32047.849718750003,"end":32047.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32048.23784375,"end":32050.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32050.499093750004,"end":32053.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32054.36346875,"end":32056.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32057.249093750004,"end":32059.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32059.91534375,"end":32060.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32061.872843750003,"end":32063.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32063.94846875,"end":32064.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32065.41659375,"end":32067.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32067.576593750004,"end":32068.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32068.605968750002,"end":32072.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32073.297218749998,"end":32074.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32075.271593750003,"end":32077.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32077.380968750003,"end":32078.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32078.89971875,"end":32080.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32080.40159375,"end":32081.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32082.527843750002,"end":32085.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32086.324718750002,"end":32087.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32088.231593750003,"end":32089.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32089.716593750003,"end":32091.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32091.23534375,"end":32092.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32092.467218750004,"end":32094.272843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32094.82971875,"end":32097.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32097.934718750003,"end":32098.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32099.335343750005,"end":32099.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32099.90909375,"end":32102.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32103.04784375,"end":32105.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32106.25409375,"end":32107.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32107.654718750004,"end":32108.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32108.498468750004,"end":32108.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32109.983468750004,"end":32115.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32115.72096875,"end":32116.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32116.80096875,"end":32118.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32118.420968750004,"end":32119.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32120.17596875,"end":32122.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32122.70721875,"end":32124.867218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32125.272218750004,"end":32125.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32126.04846875,"end":32126.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32126.723468750002,"end":32127.280343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32128.03971875,"end":32129.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32129.592218750004,"end":32130.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32130.80721875,"end":32131.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32131.819718750005,"end":32134.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32135.093468750005,"end":32138.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32138.789093750005,"end":32139.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32140.62846875,"end":32143.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32143.58159375,"end":32144.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32144.18909375,"end":32145.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32145.809093750002,"end":32148.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32148.20534375,"end":32150.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32150.770343750002,"end":32152.812218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32152.93034375,"end":32164.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32165.41784375,"end":32166.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32167.10534375,"end":32168.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32168.97846875,"end":32170.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32171.20596875,"end":32171.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32172.55596875,"end":32173.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32173.467218750004,"end":32174.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32175.32346875,"end":32176.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32177.53409375,"end":32179.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32179.879718750002,"end":32181.921593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32182.17471875,"end":32185.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32185.718468750005,"end":32186.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32187.473468750002,"end":32188.570343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32189.36346875,"end":32192.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32192.535968750002,"end":32193.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32194.054718750005,"end":32196.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32197.48034375,"end":32200.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32200.85534375,"end":32202.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32202.880343750003,"end":32204.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32205.27659375,"end":32206.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32207.402843750002,"end":32208.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32209.37721875,"end":32211.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32211.840968750003,"end":32213.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32213.79846875,"end":32215.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32215.958468750003,"end":32218.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32219.09721875,"end":32221.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32221.83096875,"end":32222.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32222.37096875,"end":32222.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32223.012218750002,"end":32224.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32224.98659375,"end":32227.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32227.551593750002,"end":32229.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32230.335968750005,"end":32232.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32234.132843750005,"end":32235.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32235.280343750004,"end":32236.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32236.731593750003,"end":32239.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32240.005343750003,"end":32240.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32241.22034375,"end":32243.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32244.105968750002,"end":32246.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32246.569718750005,"end":32247.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32248.39221875,"end":32250.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32250.754718750002,"end":32253.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32253.97784375,"end":32254.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32255.34471875,"end":32256.171593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32256.32346875,"end":32258.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32258.804093750005,"end":32260.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32260.997843750003,"end":32262.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32263.15784375,"end":32264.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32264.65971875,"end":32265.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32266.043468750002,"end":32267.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32267.41034375,"end":32270.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32271.19034375,"end":32273.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32274.480968750002,"end":32276.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32276.96159375,"end":32279.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32279.982218750003,"end":32280.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32280.79221875,"end":32281.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32281.349093750003,"end":32281.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32282.59784375,"end":32284.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32285.29784375,"end":32287.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32287.812218750005,"end":32290.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32290.47846875,"end":32291.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32291.72721875,"end":32293.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32293.83659375,"end":32295.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32296.030343750004,"end":32298.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32298.30846875,"end":32301.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32302.59471875,"end":32304.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32304.82221875,"end":32306.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32306.61096875,"end":32308.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32311.639718750004,"end":32312.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32317.19159375,"end":32320.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32321.15721875,"end":32324.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32324.498468750004,"end":32325.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32327.265968749998,"end":32329.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32329.29096875,"end":32330.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32331.332843750002,"end":32332.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32332.834718750004,"end":32336.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32336.513468750003,"end":32338.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32339.078468749998,"end":32340.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32340.732218750003,"end":32341.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32341.33971875,"end":32341.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32347.161593750003,"end":32348.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32348.528468750003,"end":32349.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32349.45659375,"end":32351.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32352.139718750004,"end":32355.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32355.632843750005,"end":32363.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32363.749718750005,"end":32366.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32366.95596875,"end":32370.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32370.33096875,"end":32372.11971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1681.642,"end":1703.849,"text":"報告委員會出席委員9人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議議事錄實現中華民國113年4月17日星期三上午9時2分至12時55分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員黃委員郭昌等13人"},{"start":1707.99,"end":1728.023,"text":"列席委員邁、委員玉珍等15人列席官員法務部政務次長蔡碧仲等人主席吳昭吉委員鐘憲報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項並按審查委員黃建豪等20人擬具《中華民國刑法》第286條條文修正草案等10案本次會由委員鐘嘉斌等12人提出質詢"},{"start":1728.923,"end":1757.023,"text":"委員翁曉琳提出書面質詢。決議一、報告、詢答及大體討論完畢。進行逐條審查。二、第77條增訂第272條之一、第286條及增訂第286條之一均保留送院會處理。三、本案審查完具擬具審查報告提請院會公決。須交由黨團協商。因為討論時由吳釗傑文中線出席說明。四、條自引數條文部分文字及法制用之用於授權主席及議事人員整理。"},{"start":1757.563,"end":1765.747,"text":"五、委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者,請相關機關緊速送交個別委員及本會。通過臨時提案二項,宣讀完畢。好,請問各位,上次會議意思錄有無錯誤或遺漏?"},{"start":1777.642,"end":1799.145,"text":"那沒有的話,我們議事部確定。好,現在介紹在到場的委員及應邀出列席官員。首先介紹在場委員,包括我們羅志強委員,包括林思敏委員,包括謝榮介委員,以及吳思堯委員,剛好到場的黃國昌委員,"},{"start":1800.68,"end":1825.081,"text":"那接下來介紹應邀列席官員我們立法院周萬蘭秘書長歡迎您法務部陳明堂次長歡迎您其他部分要再介紹嗎OK,好,那麼我們請參與其他未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單我們再不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄"},{"start":1827.329,"end":1844.649,"text":"好,本次議程討論事項是審查民進黨黨團等擬具的立法院職權行使法部分條文修正案等五案。那麼先進行提案說明及報告。那提案說明的發言時間三分鐘。先請。請。"},{"start":1858.953,"end":1859.233,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":1877.018,"end":1895.374,"text":"當時也沒有達成共識本黨的召委並未強行通過任何一個版本仍決以全案保留送諸朝野協商民進黨的版本雖然因為不及提案並審但仍然可以與院會提議抽出並案協商"},{"start":1896.255,"end":1922.99,"text":"所以我們認為今天這個案子是等於說是重複的再做一個大體的討論至於說有沒有逐條的必要我想這可以在協商的時候我們一起就民進黨的版本大家一起可以併入來一起來協商所以今天的議程我是認為說在程序上沒有什麼正面的效益法案已經向前推了"},{"start":1923.57,"end":1940.621,"text":"所以我們希望我們民進黨的朋友也可以大家共同努力為國會改革的法案大家一起來向前推啦今天再一次做這樣的一個法案的審查那我個人認為我們最後的結果我們可以預期還是就是出委員會啦"},{"start":1941.401,"end":1962.323,"text":"保留出委員會還是要進入病案協商。所以今天大家是不是又要浪費這個時間來做大體的討論來做這個逐條的審查請主席來才是還有各位委員大家來這個參佐了以上謝謝好謝謝林委員市民的發言請問那五位委員是要請"},{"start":1967.713,"end":1982.301,"text":"謝謝主席針對剛林思明委員所提的這樣的一個會議上的程序詢問那我想也清楚地來做回應其實民主進步黨立場非常的清楚從一而終任何一個法案都不應當被丟包"},{"start":1984.002,"end":2004.946,"text":"任何一個提案的委員或是黨團的法案都盡可能的求取討論的周延以及品質並按討論就是最能夠提升議事效能以及正面的強化問政品質的方式只是很可惜在週一的委員會上那民主進步黨一直希望能夠透過協調那請國民黨團的召委吳宗憲委員可以讓"},{"start":2010.427,"end":2029.363,"text":"各個法案,不是只有民進黨的黨團法案希望被併案,包括今天的呂玉玲委員有兩案,鄭天才委員有一案,汪小玲委員有一案,總共五案,如果能夠在週一就能夠併案審查,就不會有剛剛林思明委員所說的是不是要重複再討論一次的這種異議。"},{"start":2032.466,"end":2054.935,"text":"所以剛剛林思明委員的發言正是足以說明週一的處置是不周延的是欠缺妥善思量的所以剛剛您的發言正驗證了週一民主進步黨要求並案審查的合理性跟正當性好那回過頭來週一的委員會的審查讓大家覺得非常的遺憾因為主條不審查"},{"start":2056.696,"end":2071.242,"text":"主條不討論。國會改革就在國人面前提出了一個最差的負面示範。週一的會議沒有辦法重來,但是週四今天的會議絕對不能重蹈覆轍。"},{"start":2072.922,"end":2079.706,"text":"剛剛林委員說如果今天再重新討論一次然後是針對民進黨的版本逐條來討論是不是會浪費時間呢?跟大家報告在立法院透過委員會的討論每一個條文的精神、緣由有沒有合憲有沒有合規透過充分的討論呈現在國人面前也加"},{"start":2092.794,"end":2118.517,"text":"也有會與各黨派委員來交換意見這絕對不是浪費時間這是完全要基於立法院的國會監督履行我們的職責花再多時間逐條討論都有必要更何況我們在討論的是國會改革的議案我們要強化國會的監督很重要的一件事情不管在法理上或實務上那個叫做委員會中心主義"},{"start":2119.378,"end":2147.716,"text":"什麼是委員會中心主義?就是每一個關涉的法案它被分派到立法院最專業最資深的該委員會審議的時候透過委員會審查的期程能夠充分被討論最終的協商必須要尊重委員會討論的結果盡可能去尊重這就是尊崇委員會的中心主義讓委員會的討論被正視、被重視而且被"},{"start":2148.997,"end":2167.058,"text":"經過更多嚴格的檢視所以當我們在討論國會改革姿勢體大這麼嚴肅的課題我們更不能去逾越跟踐踏了所謂委員會中心主義這個重要的原則跟精神所以很抱歉我萬萬不能同意剛剛林思敏委員的提案"},{"start":2167.739,"end":2170.684,"text":"今天在這裡逐條審查民主進步黨的版本每一條都經得起檢驗每一條都歡迎公民社會一起來提供更寶貴的意見這絕對不會浪費時間萬萬不能再重蹈覆轍讓週一"},{"start":2183.843,"end":2203.608,"text":"只逐條不審查直接送交協商那這樣透明公開在哪裡呢那這樣委員中心委會中心主義又蕩然無存所以我沒有辦法同意剛剛林思明委員的提案我非常尊重林思明委員齁那這個東西就程序論程序逐條就要討論逐條就要審查謝謝"},{"start":2206.974,"end":2219.292,"text":"好謝謝請問對於今天會議的進行程序有沒有其他首先要發言的好我們當第一次發言的好柯委員就是目前有臨呃我們是會議程序程序發言程序發言啊要還謝謝來請"},{"start":2222.928,"end":2241.526,"text":"因為剛剛有林委員思明表達認為本次的今天的審查會認為有重複然後希望是直接到朝野協商的時候進行討論那我要說明的是剛剛前段林思明委員說的的確在本次委員會審查的法案在委員會審查的法案"},{"start":2242.066,"end":2269.524,"text":"可以到院會的時候以操作的方式進行二讀,那同時並之前送委員會出委員會的法案進行協商。那這樣是否比較符合我們本院審查的原則?是否符合社會需要這樣的法案被討論的這樣的需求?我想我們尊重每個委員的發言,現在由柯委員請說明。主席,各位委員同仁,討論的這個會議是"},{"start":2272.335,"end":2296.352,"text":"在禮拜一怎麼的過程?難道透過直播大家不清楚嗎?然後難道在座各位委員當禮拜一所有的諾說諾說主條登記發言只允許少許時間的大體討論?那而且國民黨提案委員民進黨提案委員也不提案說明"},{"start":2299.444,"end":2303.919,"text":"這一幕大家可以看到出來這是國會史上最暴力的一刻"},{"start":2306.89,"end":2328.065,"text":"大家都知道國內的改革是在這個會議中中之中每一個人都這樣講這過程是怎麼樣難道大家心裡不清楚嗎那你今天要什麼邏輯來講說我們的提案新的提案進來那天我一直在講說歐小英委員的也有提案今天還能把他併進來"},{"start":2330.627,"end":2352.699,"text":"羅志祥委員提案,我們雖然還沒過夫期,可要併進來。我一直在講說,所有案子併在一起的時候,有差一天嗎?結果強勢連夜而過。這樣也是得到什麼?有終極都會贏嗎?難道他們人民的眼睛都瞎了嗎?國會改革大家都知道,"},{"start":2354.256,"end":2371.211,"text":"這有歷史緣由的從1993年遭到1999年才有國會無法產生然後不斷修但是2004的時候出現一個五八五四制國會調查權那國會調查權是當初大家都覺得很複雜"},{"start":2372.711,"end":2392.081,"text":"那我們在2016的時候也有提案但是留下最大爭點沒有過的就是國會調查權今天走了20年了其他不是沒有修的其他黨怎麼會沒有修啊直播啊、日安組織法、日安組織法、院長政治政黨、議事處理等等都有修啊"},{"start":2393.141,"end":2407.515,"text":"所以大家今天在大家重走一次的時候來到這個現場,難道今天主席是還要聽聽於副分局嗎?各位你可以聽聽副分局下大家進言,若舉手。"},{"start":2411.775,"end":2435.779,"text":"有可能讓這個情形再次發生嗎?我們盡量展現的就是說我們有好好的委員委員會的注意,大家好好來審查法案。那今天得到的是什麼?你完全是背贏大家論壽獎的嘛。況且今天民進黨黨版《立法院職權行使法》總共修24條,剩下一章兩個節。文法只有12條啊。"},{"start":2439.608,"end":2463.648,"text":"回來環境重複呢?這將來當然都是要病院審查的還有很多版本都是要病院審查那未來程序是怎麼樣的?柴油箱程序怎樣?菸味表決程序怎樣?沒有談好所有版本都要表決了這樣夠了嗎?當然沒有柴油箱都要談好所有二、三個版本都要一一處理啊那審查報告要怎麼處理?"},{"start":2466.337,"end":2479.046,"text":"所以這個立法是一個嚴肅的過程,不是大家認為想當然好了,運動所都會把他弄過去就好了,那因為這也不能很花言,然後就要講出表決。"},{"start":2480.852,"end":2500.181,"text":"這不發生嚴重的衝突。我們盡量克制在委員會最新委員中心處理,那天大家看到,我們全部不跟你們吵架,只是希望有幾個發言的機會。過去,目前委員還有民進黨委員,過去民進黨占營處理台,民進黨打強行處理委員會,那是國民黨占營處理台沒有辦法好談的時候才會發生。"},{"start":2505.504,"end":2526.597,"text":"我希望在他們好好談的時候,竟然有發生這樣的那種暴力。我不知道黃文昌委員在哪裡,他也是相當有正義感的人,應該也清楚啦。我們今天難道今天可以說完全有OMG版本不一樣的,也不可以審除除進入二讀。你二讀的事是說,不要在那邊討論。啊你不要換人,換人會漏氣。"},{"start":2530.459,"end":2537.504,"text":"那就蓋起來全部出去,這是我們要的國會嗎?這是新的國會嗎?大家喪失。謝謝。來,那麼請林委員、施民第二度的做程序的發言。"},{"start":2552.353,"end":2570.964,"text":"主席我想我非常尊重我們科總召或者護士要委員的發言我想這是一個程序的問題我從兩個面向來講說我們今天在排這個案子而且是由不同的召委來就同一個案子來排那這樣在過去立法院有這樣子的一個慣例嗎"},{"start":2572.685,"end":2595.297,"text":"那麼我想我們立法院我們過去一直強調為提高我們的意識效率我們對性質相同的法案我們得為並按審查另外我們為求審查秩序的安定性同意條文如今審查會一決後就不再討論這不就是我們民進黨一貫主張的意識效率一事不惡意嗎?"},{"start":2596.337,"end":2610.907,"text":"而且依據立法院職權行使法第十二條第二項當年的立法說明二為提高議事效率賦予委員會程序處理之全責同法第三項當年立法說明三"},{"start":2611.667,"end":2629.616,"text":"也說明避免對委員會已審查通過的條文因新案再併入審查而產生處理上之困難新案之提出如昔對已通過之條文而為容易造成借題新案之方法作為推翻舊案之手段"},{"start":2630.456,"end":2650.817,"text":"所以我們看到這一次民進黨的版雖不及並案審查但是這是同屬性質相同的法律提案卻捨棄議事的成立故意不致委員會抽出禁負二讀與相關提案並案協商反禁制排審"},{"start":2652.638,"end":2672.171,"text":"這讓人感覺是鬧雙胞啦所以我們認為說這樣企圖以不同的審查結果來製造紛爭、拖延意識、垂債改革、招攬弱竭啦以上好是那個柯委員來請柯熊德來 魏委員"},{"start":2675.789,"end":2700.77,"text":"主席各位同仁我再一次要回應我不同意國民黨委員要求今天不審查直接交協商的提案我們週一在司法法制委員會鬧出來的鬧劇週四絕對不能再重蹈覆轍已經有一次的程序不正義絕對不能再重蹈覆轍今天的主席是中嘉賓委員資深專業"},{"start":2702.972,"end":2730.321,"text":"那她也歷任多個委員會的召委相信召委會在主持意識上做出清楚的決斷但是我要回應林思敏委員林委員我跟您報告一下您剛剛的說法是有誤的民主進奔黨今天提出來的職權行使法總共有24個條文不是每一條都跟國民黨的版本條次相仿可以直接併案交付協商在程序上它就不可行"},{"start":2731.101,"end":2733.663,"text":"因為我們的24個條文裡面有12個條文是我們在週一快轉之下國民黨跟民眾黨的版本裡面沒有重疊的條文所以是有一半民主進步黨的條文裡面有12條是跟國民黨民眾黨並沒有重疊的條文他必須循程序在委員會裡面逐條被討論逐條被實質的審議這是第一個"},{"start":2759.119,"end":2772.802,"text":"而且這個12條文裏面我們還新增了兩個章節名所以連章節整個職權行使法的章節的排序這個法律秩序又大不相同這當然需要重新再來審議第二個我要再次強調審查國會改革姿勢體大"},{"start":2779.904,"end":2800.318,"text":"沒有任何一個法案不管是立委不管是黨團不管是藍的不管是綠的不管是白的不應當有任何一個法案被丟包我們今天在做補救就是讓被丟包的法案今天能夠循程序或強調今天不是只審民進黨團的版本還有國民黨呂玉玲委員兩個版還有"},{"start":2805.582,"end":2817.534,"text":"關小林委員一個版所以我們希望每一個版本都有被充分檢視、多元、對話、理性、辯論的機會所以沒有任何一個法案應當被丟包更不應當被鬧雙包"},{"start":2822.799,"end":2839.461,"text":"我要挑戰剛剛林思敏委員的發言他說今天如果再排民進黨的職權行使法就是讓法案的審查鬧雙包沒這件事本質上條文就不同內涵就不同違憲跟合憲這是大大的本質的不同所以我們不能夠"},{"start":2841.485,"end":2866.18,"text":"接受今天排案審查就是鬧雙包對不起這是被鬧雙包從來沒有鬧雙包這件事情所以國會改革沒有任何一個委員或黨團的提案應當被丟包也不會發生鬧雙包的事情今天透過程序我們落實委員會中心主義我們相信司法法制委員會的委員們都是充分準備"},{"start":2867.381,"end":2888.65,"text":"可以理性對話在這個前提之下本席堅持我是作為民主進步黨國會改革小組的召集人我們歷經了七次的專家學者的擴大會議我們歷經無數次的立委徹夜的研議我們負責任的提出合憲合規我們負責任的提出權責相符的國會改革版本它應當被審查而我要說"},{"start":2897.293,"end":2913.465,"text":"大家不都一直在強調這是一個開放的國會嗎?討論議案、逐條也讓線上的公民朋友一起來參與一起來聆聽一起來檢視一起來給國會改革最大的鞭策"},{"start":2914.065,"end":2916.808,"text":"不要害怕逐條討論不要害怕國民黨的版本經不起跟民進黨版本兩相對照會原形畢露國民黨團的委員對自己的版本要有信心不要害怕我們就逐條討論"},{"start":2930.385,"end":2958.8,"text":"而且這是基於議事規則,符合程序正義。十二條的條文是跟國民黨你們審過的版本完全不一致,它必須重行在新案新討論。謝謝來我先說明一下我們立法院職權行使法第十二條請大家現在可以詳讀主席在做說明"},{"start":2960.712,"end":2980.412,"text":"議案於完成二讀前,原提案者得經院會同意後撤回原案,表達委員會的審查在院會進行二讀處理前,它都是一個院會交付審查處理的過程,所以在這個院會沒有做出最後決定之前,可以把它撤回。"},{"start":2981.072,"end":3008.507,"text":"第二項法律案交付審查後性質相同者得為併案審查當院會一讀將法律案交付委員會審查後委員會得就性質相同者併案審查這也是第十二條第二項職權行使法第十二條好那目前在前天星期一的會議當中民進黨團希望"},{"start":3009.875,"end":3038.254,"text":"國民黨輪值召委擔任主席時能將已經由院會已經進行一讀但是在交付審查過程中還留待復議為走完復議期的案子能夠等候包括國民黨的呂玉玲委員還有鄭天才委員以及翁曉琳委員也都有提出同一個立法院職權行使法的修正條文修正案"},{"start":3038.973,"end":3063.627,"text":"都在院會已完成一讀尚未到達委員會交互審查還在等候復議的時候我們希望這些性質相同的得為併案審查請注意是得為併案審查委員會可以併在一起審也可以不併在一起審那比較遺憾的週一的輪值召委擔任主席的吳委員吳主席他不願意將"},{"start":3065.228,"end":3090.067,"text":"已經由院會交付,尚未完成賦予日期交到委員會的案子等候進行並案審查。」這裡面一共有五個案子。那因此呢,在這種情況之下本席作為輪值召委負責今天的議程當然可以排案再審。我們沒有重複審查。今天的五個案都不是週一審查的案子。這些案子沒有審查過。"},{"start":3091.929,"end":3110.587,"text":"請看第三項法律案附委經逐條討論後,院會再為併案審查交付時,審查會對於已通過之條文不再討論。那現在我們就要來確認一點了。週一的委員會我們是審查完略。"},{"start":3112.213,"end":3135.745,"text":"但保留,表示委員會並沒有作成通過與否的決議,只是審查完略。對條文的內容,委員會沒有作出可否的意思表達。所以在這裡面,週一的程序是完成審訊,但條文在委員會未經表決通過。"},{"start":3137.066,"end":3152.388,"text":"所以在院會二讀的時候,的確可以就還留在本委員會進行審查的相同性質的議案,進行抽出淨富二讀。"},{"start":3153.67,"end":3171.336,"text":"因為我們週一我們審查完畢提回院會當然提回院會之前還有一個草野協商的案子並沒有通過的條文所以要抽出來在併案進行協商誠如林委員所說的草野可以在協商的時候將現在"},{"start":3173.317,"end":3190.741,"text":"在本委員會同性質的法案就是立法院職權行使法跟週一已經審查完畢要送交院會的條文用二讀會前抽出的方式由院會來進行併案所以我們並沒有發生後半段"},{"start":3191.721,"end":3217.4,"text":"審查會就對已通過之條文不再討論。並沒有。那我要強調的今天的五個案當中有些的條文跟週一的有相近有些的完全不在週一的草案當中所以主席這邊要說明本次的委員會是將目前已達復席限期滿院會交付本委員會的五個提案並按審查"},{"start":3219.502,"end":3226.891,"text":"這並沒有重複跟新期的案子重複審查的問題。在此說明。接下來我們﹖好來委員他請。"},{"start":3231.926,"end":3256.864,"text":"主席好,我現在就程序發言其實我認為現在最重要的癥結也就在剛才主席你所說的就是因為同樣一個案子禮拜一我們的吳宗憲召委已經排案審查我們的國會的立法院職權行使法了"},{"start":3257.324,"end":3285.516,"text":"那你今天在同樣排這樣子的案子就會有像吳思瑤委員貴黨的吳思瑤委員所提出的國民黨的版本絕對不是怕你來比不是你們民進黨的版本就比較好而是同樣一個法案不同的召委處理的時候就會有不同的意見嘛你現在就要抽出嘛你現在就要抽出來再做嘛"},{"start":3285.976,"end":3306.91,"text":"那為什麼過去會有慣例就是同樣一個法案由同一個召委來排呢?就是希望整個法案的處理過程當中有一慣性嘛那你就在禮拜三要排貴黨的那你為什麼不等到下一次你們的案子來了吳宗憲再繼續排呢?為什麼不這樣子呢?為什麼你們不這樣子呢?"},{"start":3313.648,"end":3337.873,"text":"我先跟委員說明因為你非本會委員你提出的是會議詢問我不是程序發言所以本席對這個部分跟你做回答兩個部分那個司法法制委員會每個委員會有自己的一個慣例司法法制委員會並沒有限制委員就哪個法案的排審專一權第二剛剛所說的剛剛也包括林委員所說的"},{"start":3340.103,"end":3363.11,"text":"所說的一事不在意的確我們立法院職權行使法第十二條第三項他有限制院會在為並案審查的時候審查會不得對已通過的條文進行討論這就是一事不在意委員會在接受院會再次交付並案審查的同時對於委員會之前已經審查過通過的條文是不得再行討論的"},{"start":3364.41,"end":3380.225,"text":"這的確是有避免重複審議的問題也不會有後面跟前面翻案的問題所以條文上是很清楚問題是現在我們進行的並不是院會再為併案審查之再交付不是"},{"start":3382.143,"end":3406.523,"text":"現在我們在星期一的時候送到院會之前還有經過一個草野協商的程序這也是國民黨要求副總召要求他希望送出委員會進入草野協商但是我要說明的進入草野協商在院會做出第三項在為病案審查之交付之前我們委員會仍得就"},{"start":3407.103,"end":3420.131,"text":"已經交付的案子跟週一不同的法案進行排審。以上說明希望謝委員瞭解。請問文本會員還有柯委員要進行程序發言嗎?請時間兩分鐘。主席、各位委員。剛才國民黨的委員所發言的不管孫一鴻、林世民等發言都在自證其罪。"},{"start":3437.315,"end":3459.223,"text":"各位要了解立法院的議事規則很清楚同一性質相同的就是說我們都很清楚第一個立法委員提案的時候往往有先後次序的落差因為行政院先公告以後立法院就來把這個行政預公告法案就來稍微調整以後送進來"},{"start":3461.84,"end":3490.148,"text":"而又行政進來以後有來不及趕快又稍微調整又送進來所以常常有很多的落差這為什麼?因為公眾門在檢查各位提案數而已這是不可說的秘密那通常碰到這個情形,大家有時候會互相稍微斷解要查詢,查詢人家出去,到最後在院會叫做病人審查,就是如此"},{"start":3492.096,"end":3492.618,"text":"那所謂議事規則的規定"},{"start":3494.85,"end":3523.869,"text":"相同的不要再審,沒有問題。差一點有一半以上啊,本來就再審啊。法案審查什麼時候,說我一個前面的書記,後面的不能再來。修正條文不同,有不同案子啊。雖然案名長得一樣,但修正條文不同,當然可以審啊。這道理自明嘛。而且因為委員你也在司法及法制委員會。司法及法制委員會從來沒有說法案、排案的專屬性的問題。他常常接續排案嘛。"},{"start":3525.072,"end":3525.333,"text":"這個哪一個法?"},{"start":3527.731,"end":3556.873,"text":"然而這些修法或是立法院所謂法案法律條文裏面兩次就有寫出什麼時候有規定,還要你讓我先掛號,以後大家都不會再動了。這種不可能的事情,這是不合常態,而且不會發生的。所以大家要了解立法院運作是一個非常成熟的機制,這麼多年來該改的都改了。但是呢,我希望就是說,你們自己要冷靜想一想。"},{"start":3557.894,"end":3585.686,"text":"當然很簡單我的解讀很簡單就是你要強行通過然後在委員會禁止發言嘛那你自己的提案也不說明嘛一路演壓你也要過去嘛都讓外界看不到聲音嘛然後說出委員會那一路蓋牌嘛蔡偉鄉的時候你們出席就說都反對反對嘛然後在A11表決A11表決你又想要你國會都是為什麼禁止民進黨發言"},{"start":3587.447,"end":3610.428,"text":"這個東西一路蓋牌到底啊,這天下在做荒謬的過失啊。啊你自己講的楊某很清楚啊,在五年以前要通過嘛,要找那個親和來,讓總統來做國情報告,要急問急答嘛,還要書面報告啊。這可得嗎?這違憲了嘛。你們這次在建政中途嘛。"},{"start":3613.168,"end":3642.286,"text":"五二年以後,新的行政院長兩月份來愛博,做時政報啊。時政報,時政報三天前來,你又有總統來背刑,又有行政院長背刑,這是我們憲法體制嗎?我們憲法體制根本不是這一套嘛。總統是明顯的啊。那憲法體制當然就是說,總統行政院,有七條規定很清楚啊。憲法有七條規定很清楚啊。行政院是國家重要的行政機關。"},{"start":3646.147,"end":3657.283,"text":"那先往上來規定六、三條規定六案可以議決的東西那意義上法律案、條案等等嘛先往上說給你們潛力就是如此嘛"},{"start":3658.154,"end":3681.565,"text":"那代表香港第四條規定很清楚啊總統得來嘛做國情報告啦但是沒有急問急答到底是要問總統還是問行政院長 想得準那總統還可以提他 提市民答覆有這樣的憲政體制嗎 你們想一想那總之不會衝不會走嘛事先上也不會過嘛"},{"start":3683.56,"end":3708.114,"text":"大家很清楚,這整個憲法的規定很清楚。你對於行政院首屬的政策法,你還可以提服役啊。啊不然接下來就是什麼?你提不喜歡倒閣嗎?沒有所謂的官員不可以反諮詢,這些東西等一下我們大家要談。所以各位這種荒謬的一刻,你怕再演出來嗎?但是你今天你和組黨、民進黨不討論嗎?"},{"start":3712.493,"end":3729.202,"text":"而你們副總召就趕快叫來壓政吧所以各位歷史在看到你們所有過過的過程大家都會檢視的因為反正在法案審查有這樣的出道過嗎所以很絶大衝突才沒有辦法審就到柴油廠去再談"},{"start":3730.783,"end":3758.803,"text":"我們一直展現的要用論述好好跟你談,你不要以為我們完全都是蜿蜒相欠,都是遷移原則,那你們做完那一排完全不講話,國安委員他自己在國會已經很清楚了,他也當過國會議員,你們這邊有都當過了,那羅志強你自己的版本被背包你有沒有意見,這個都是很奇怪的現象。"},{"start":3759.93,"end":3777.648,"text":"這荒謬,這荒謬而已。那你今天,我們在主管講從那個角度,你只要能夠屬於我們,我們可以接受。是吧?好,謝謝。那麼主席在這裡,也是陳先生請,來。"},{"start":3784.54,"end":3809.285,"text":"今天我是非常滿懷感動來到這邊來去看我們今天的審議我先回應我們偉大的柯總召柯總說我的法案被丟包我跟各位說我的法案沒有被丟包我的法案就是2016年一字不插板的民進黨的國會改革法案"},{"start":3810.843,"end":3827.181,"text":"問題是2016年的那個案子被丟包了八年啊!被當啊!在座的一堆都連訴啊!哦不對!這是民進黨黨團版是所有民進黨立委一起代表提出的"},{"start":3828.369,"end":3855.986,"text":"丟包啦丟了八年今天快馬加鞭對不對又要什麼排審然後又要這個禮拜一我們已經要送到這個草野協商的國會改革法案你要今天要再來搞一次我跟各位說我覺得我很感動原因是什麼因為今天就展現了今天在野黨不管是國民黨跟民眾黨我們展現什麼叫民主給你們看啊"},{"start":3857.406,"end":3879.456,"text":"今天我跟各位說啦我們的主席啊我們這邊在講議事規則啊我講得好感動啊議事規則終於重要了啦你的解讀正不正確再說啦但是我只是永遠忘不了過去八年民進黨動輒開會五分鐘停止討論直接碾壓在野黨馬上就表決啦有理你在野黨嗎?"},{"start":3886.055,"end":3889.416,"text":"有離你在野黨嗎?昨天禮拜一六個小時民進黨要程序發言讓你程序發言要會議詢問讓你會議詢問要大體討論讓你大體討論搞了六個小時搞了四十次三會動議欸你想杯葛想要怎麼搞四十次三會動議就繼續搞啊那我要講什麼?"},{"start":3916.562,"end":3943.907,"text":"不就是讓你們繼續討論嗎?這叫什麼?這叫做過去的在野黨沒有辦法得到待遇啦!今天在這邊很簡單民進黨如果你真的這麼在乎國會改革你不要自己落隊說人家丟包你2016年好好省八年時間都過了啦!八年不好好搞今天搶這一天"},{"start":3945.685,"end":3967.775,"text":"獎這一天然後再回應我們的柯總召上來又開始急問急答毀憲亂政啦!柯總召今天我是誰你知道嗎?我今天叫柯建民我今天不叫羅志強2016年你就主張你就主張的是什麼?你就主張的就是主張的國情報告急問急答欸!不用!柯總召"},{"start":3972.111,"end":3975.373,"text":"二、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":3989.226,"end":3990.466,"text":"三、委員呂玲等16人擬具"},{"start":4016.914,"end":4041.607,"text":"我先說明一下那個週一的會議進行並沒有癱瘓議事也沒有佔領主席台所以還是由當時的輪值召委我們吳宗憲主席所進行的一個議事的程序這跟剛剛柯委員所說的有所不同那接下來我們要請正牌的柯委員要發言"},{"start":4048.373,"end":4070.914,"text":"好,周一有點氣氛可以好好談了我是很期待這一刻因為如果有顏碧春、柯建民那我不需要你來追隨我啦但是你可以整天盯著我,我沒有意見有一句話叫做東施孝平"},{"start":4072.403,"end":4100.372,"text":"有一句話叫做十人雅會。我不知道這個中文這麼簡單,中文喔讓胡文綺那邊一直笑,跟黃國昌兩個在旁,胡文綺那邊笑。我希望你這八個字,什麼叫中式笑評?什麼叫十人雅會?既然至於十人雅會,今天在以大家的講說,我都抄個女生文版本,你沒有完全抄,你有很多其他的創建出來啦,你的版本不是只有一個人,我們大家都很清楚嘛。"},{"start":4101.704,"end":4115.571,"text":"我們怎麼都要審法呢所以今天要講說2016你要就是要實現我們理想2016十五到八年都沒有做請問那八年中間你以為沒有民進黨委員嗎沒有民進黨委員嗎"},{"start":4120.475,"end":4148.846,"text":"沒有台人嗎?國民黨一直存在啊!國民黨今天才從地球上冒出來的嗎?才在國會的嗎?這是在共同的責任、在共同的問題嘛!你們有沒有在提出來?你們有沒有說用這個邏輯來打的話,也是自證體罪啊!那給老闆而已嘛!你不要講什麼邏輯嘛!國會改革是民進黨的責任!國會改革是所有立法院的責任!"},{"start":4150.438,"end":4175.503,"text":"我從1963年進來之後,現在是全民國會改革,國會違法,1991年是我們都曾經講過,中國農會不能修法。這是大家共同的問題,大家要是一個比較好的國會嘛。你今天講這個以後,我無問題的常常這樣講。你民進黨不說我們來做,那你國民黨給錢不就是要理會它嗎?你國民黨今天要怎麼整個地方掌權啊?這是什麼邏輯嘛?"},{"start":4177.222,"end":4191.738,"text":"這是一個貿易共識,我們不想用國內貿易報告的道理,所以保留五八五四線那一條最關鍵條文,其他可以修,我們盡量修。那五八五四線到底應該,這個案真的還錢,那其他的失法權的界限在什麼地方?"},{"start":4192.864,"end":4196.747,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":4221.96,"end":4225.582,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文"},{"start":4252.745,"end":4269.67,"text":"章義忠章義忠就是如此嘛當年三一八二十二允許三一八前一天章義忠的時候章義忠就是進來蹲在牆底牆底牆角下自己喊說要通過這才會衝突嘛"},{"start":4271.581,"end":4297.753,"text":"只是沒有辦法有,而是一時之需的時候,根本那媒體會擠在一起,國民黨在佔領之下拿大聲大聲的進來,這時候才有可能有,我們那時候所謂所謂才有可能,但是當然也要依程序來處理,要很完整的,包括歐洲交流的時候,當然,上一屆舉動與歐洲交流的時候,程序不完整,從來,我們都認得啦,所以立法院的意思規則是很清楚透明的,"},{"start":4298.77,"end":4300.913,"text":"兩、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":4315.14,"end":4333.044,"text":"這什麼話啦!這還說立法院有七個案件有那麼多題材,啊你還問?你都根本不給!全部都說!講什麼好話!我希望今天這樣的討論,可以來,大家好好來辯論。吼,你不曉得要不要搬給我?你搬給你自己好了!"},{"start":4334.831,"end":4355.139,"text":"那麼本席依立法院議事規則與委員發言前先宣告發言時間每位委員發言時間兩分鐘這是指程序發言那麼請需要發言的委員在莊委員之後呢請先到主席台前發言登記那主席會盡量的讓首次發言的委員先發言來請莊委員時間兩分鐘"},{"start":4364.28,"end":4364.46,"text":"主席"},{"start":4376.889,"end":4400.766,"text":"不分黨派我相信很多人每一個早上都跑幾個委員會第一件事情那麼早去非本會要幹什麼就是要去做提案說明我早上第一個就跑到教文去做提案的一個說明大家再來做一個回顧這一次的攻防裡面我們我在上一次我們吳政院主席在主持這個會議的議事的時候我就提出來了"},{"start":4401.627,"end":4424.562,"text":"你這查一天你不寵,你不愛紅,你不愛淡,你就會碰到這樣的一個爭議。剛剛羅委員所提到的,說你現在扮演是柯建民的角色,這是換起來好像民進黨的一個黨魂,讓大家有所記憶。第八屆我就進來了。第八屆當初啊,林佳龍有一個提案,到了第九屆,我跟顧立雄我們也有共同提案。"},{"start":4425.478,"end":4437.563,"text":"民進黨不是反對國會調查權,我們自己就有版本。當初林德福還到我旁邊,敢要這樣做,要擴權耶。你去看你們當初的政策會執行長賴思寶怎麼講,他就是擴權,我們不用說那麼多,你沒那麼大。如果要這樣計較的話,每一個政黨把過去所講的過的話,拿出來做一個檢驗的話,那好玩喔。政黨之間的一個攻防還是要講一點點道理啦。各位再把它去想一想啦。"},{"start":4455.75,"end":4471.542,"text":"國會改革我相信大家今天坐在這個地方你今天去把它看我們周秘書長他所提出的報告這三頁裡面他其實是在講四個字叫做國會自主啊就是說國會啊立法院大大到那個內部大到有夠大有夠大到都不清的你知道嗎"},{"start":4473.183,"end":4490.145,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":4491.069,"end":4508.202,"text":"那這句話就送給你們國民黨當初的講法那本席要特別提出來就是說今天吶我們在院會交互拼案以前吶草野協商都還沒啊所以你真正要去講一事不在理的話仔細再去想一想吶大家都當到立法委員吶這哪是一事不在理的問題呢底下多少誰學法的那你再去把它想想看我們通過的法案我們吳主席在主持這個議事的時候你創了一個先例啊"},{"start":4520.712,"end":4539.674,"text":"提案不用做說明阿不用做主導討論阿你就把人家給送協商阿任何一個人當召委你要裁決送你要做保留保留是意見不一樣我們每一次都討論完了意見不一致說好保留送協商"},{"start":4540.831,"end":4558.558,"text":"我們在講的保留是在講這個的,你的保留跟別人都不一樣,都不要提案說明,都不用逐條討論,全部都是保留送協商。以後在司法法制委員會我們討論任何案子全部都不用討論啦,也不用提案說明啦,可以這樣子幹的喔?"},{"start":4561.206,"end":4584.603,"text":"國會調查權是立法委員很大國會自主愛怎麼通過就怎麼通過但重點不要忘記了這個課題到底你要限制到誰你那個範圍你那個限制甚至於你那個強制的一個手段你到底要用到什麼樣的一個程度要用到刑法要用到行政法這個都不用討論了"},{"start":4588.41,"end":4592.512,"text":"民進黨你說你們過去全部連要過去你說那一天什麼花了六個小時啊這也亂講議事本來就是這樣子嘛沒有人霸佔你主席台沒有人讓你不能審下去嘛那個就是正當的議事工房按照議事規則來啊提三位本來就是優先處理啊那你注意把它想想看當天裡面他有什麼六個小時?人家有什麼討論六個小時?"},{"start":4612.023,"end":4612.143,"text":"議員議員提醒議員提醒"},{"start":4638.138,"end":4656.406,"text":"本席在宣告的時候並沒有把時間明確地講,都是給兩分鐘,但實際上都講超過兩分鐘啦。好,那我這邊做更正的宣告,我們發言時間改為三分鐘。然後剛剛莊委員的部分一開始是兩分鐘,後來也多給他一分鐘了,所以都很公平。那所以每位委員發言時間兩分鐘,現在登記發言的委員,"},{"start":4660.838,"end":4668.79,"text":"呃,對不起,登記發言時間是三分鐘那目前登記發言的委員還有羅志強委員、吳思耀委員跟柯建民委員再請羅委員請時間三分鐘"},{"start":4674.773,"end":4703.918,"text":"我今天真的是抱著愉悅的心情來這邊看待今天非常民主進步的一個討論剛剛我們的柯總召說不要東施孝平我跟你講這是犧牲捧心為2016年版本的民進黨犧牲版本感到心痛犧牲捧心不是東施孝平今天民進黨在這邊你會發現我真的是這兩個月很大的學習"},{"start":4705.6,"end":4717.447,"text":"五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。」五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。五分鐘停止討論,直接用多數碾壓。"},{"start":4735.911,"end":4760.836,"text":"因為怎樣怎樣所以我停止討論交付表決就是你國民黨活該倒霉啊不就這個意思?不就這個意思?不就這個意思?然後呢六個小時還有給你扣休息啊扣朗讀啊欸你五分鐘給他扣休息扣朗讀嗎?你直接碾壓別人欸五分鐘碾壓別人沒事"},{"start":4762.284,"end":4778.13,"text":"六小時所有該要發言討論法案搞了六個小時你可以提四十次散會動議啊網路上怎麼稱呼各位前輩先進門啊綠色巨嬰黨輸不起啊輸四十次啊散會動議啊輸四十次啊吳宗憲、張偉在上面主持的時候讓你充分討論搞了六個小時"},{"start":4791.638,"end":4802.787,"text":"你還提兩次譴責啊我都不知道五分鐘你給誰討論啊五分鐘你給誰討論啊你五分鐘給誰討論啊你要比啊黨團協商討論啊保留黨團協商討論啊這不是議事規則裡面的嗎"},{"start":4818.767,"end":4844.919,"text":"這不是一定是規則裡面我新來的啦所以我為2016年的那個死掉的民進黨捧心啦我新來的啦我新來的啦所以為今天審判會委員主持會議五分鐘停止討論表決捧心啊我新來的啦我新來的啦所以我要特別講沒有什麼時空環境改變啦"},{"start":4846.067,"end":4867.543,"text":"什麼急問急答叫做政治攻防難怪人家說民進黨國會改革版本就是幫助貪源說謊版本啦因為你們把這個話可以隨便說政治攻防然後現在時空環境我只看到民進黨的屁股變了啦稀釋捧心了啦好"},{"start":4871.038,"end":4889.156,"text":"我們接下來請吳思瑤委員做程序發言時間三分鐘主席各位同仁現在是立法院的憲法時刻"},{"start":4890.685,"end":4915.427,"text":"國會改革跟憲政體制息息相關在面對憲法之前每一個人都要謙遜面對民意面對人民的托付我們都要虛心我希望今天在場的每一位委員在發言面對嚴肅的國會改革的議題收起戲謔的態度收起你嘲諾的口吻"},{"start":4917.079,"end":4935.468,"text":"我要再說﹐任何一場球賽﹐國球是台灣的﹐棒球是台灣的國球﹐任何一場球賽有它的賽制、賽程的安排﹐但球賽最清楚的就是要依據賽制﹐投手、上場、直球對決。"},{"start":4937.045,"end":4954.302,"text":"打手打擊手可以就位揮棒爭取進攻但是週一國民黨的排審的國會改革的法案就是一場賽制不公的棒球賽因為投手就是國民黨"},{"start":4956.104,"end":4976.39,"text":"你們所提的國會改革版本不敢被審查投手不敢上場投球而民進黨作為防守方在週一的會議上我們爭取打擊者要上場揮棒爭取得分主席不讓打手上場揮棒打擊"},{"start":4977.95,"end":5001.368,"text":"然後主席也就是兼裁判在那裡一直的宣告三正出局三正出局三正出局從第一局到最後一局第九局都在旁邊場邊喊三正出局三正出局沒有投手上場投球也不讓打擊者上場打擊一路到三正出局九局下然後宣告這個藍白隊獲勝藍白隊直接晉級有這種的嗎"},{"start":5007.472,"end":5015.257,"text":"我要再說一次,不要東施笑評,不要食人牙慧,確實如此。現在是2024年,為什麼國民黨的羅志強委員嚴閉稱2016的民主進步黨的國會改革的版本呢?"},{"start":5024.468,"end":5028.592,"text":"不要學已經被社會檢視有違憲之餘的條文正因為民進黨在2016端出來的版本我們經過檢視社會沒有共識而且也對於大法官誓字585號確實有所調查聽證權的漢格所以我們尊重憲法尊重社會的共識我們自治"},{"start":5049.15,"end":5053.495,"text":"沒有因為民主進步黨是國會多數就如同您剛剛說的強行碾壓讓這樣一個違憲之餘的版本通過回到2016年民進黨國會改革的版本的脈絡就是這樣"},{"start":5065.54,"end":5072.927,"text":"好的要學,不要亂學。如果你要學習民主進步黨2016年的版本,你也好好抄,抄對。民主進步黨2016年的版本是沒有國會特徵組。你們今天有國會特徵組還有國會特權組。"},{"start":5086.089,"end":5103.052,"text":"民主進步黨在2016年的版本也沒有藐視國會罪可以入人於罪路人講路人與民間企業今天進店是明天台積電每一個私人企業、人民、民間團體都會被叫來立法院因為國會可以私設行堂"},{"start":5104.235,"end":5119.99,"text":"我們沒有這些離譜違憲的條文。羅志祥委員您真的是新來的。您對於條文完全不懂。您掩蔽了2016年的民主進步黨的版本,您也沒有讀懂,您也沒有讀通,您要抄也抄對。"},{"start":5120.991,"end":5124.474,"text":"但是我要再次說我們對歷史負責2016年的版本經過檢視民進黨負責任的回應社會的共識我們在憲法面前該低頭就低頭該檢討就檢討今天請討論2024年的民主進步黨的版本歷史"},{"start":5139.987,"end":5161.738,"text":"會留下憲法時刻每一個政治工作者每一個國會議員你採取什麼樣的立場你採取什麼樣的態度我再次提醒不要再浪費時間我非常同意林思敏委員剛剛第一句話說的不要浪費時間不要拖延現在就開始逐條我們節省時間謝謝吳委員接下來請陳俊委員發言時間三分鐘"},{"start":5171.82,"end":5196.296,"text":"好謝謝主席那在場各位委員大家好我們都是第11屆的立法委員那從2月1號開議到現在在場也有三位司法法制委員同一個這個法案提過不只一次包括我們吳宗憲召委有五個版本那翁曉琳委員也有四個版本"},{"start":5197.236,"end":5222.475,"text":"復坤啟委員復總召也有三個版本其中也包含今天排定的相關議程法案修正的提出經過委員辦公室內部討論之後委員們一致聯署經過我們院會的一睹到委員會審查討論之後無論是不是有無意義來送交我們院會或是保留送協商"},{"start":5223.436,"end":5247.455,"text":"那修法的這個過程我相信雖然只是一小步啦齁那我們都希望能夠更加完備來成為我國的一個法制那對於國會改革的決心我相信在座各位委員都是有之一同啦齁那可是在禮拜一看來我們整個過程非常的冗長"},{"start":5248.567,"end":5275.485,"text":"那經過這個當時我們吳釗緯主持的會議最後也宣判就是宣讀就是當天的這些法案已經審查完畢可是說真的我從地方的議會這個經歷過在禮拜一的這個整個過程裡面並沒有所謂的這個審查沒有實質的審查也沒有這個提案人的說明沒有經過詳細的討論"},{"start":5278.168,"end":5283.708,"text":"那這個法案到底有沒有算是審查完畢那我也覺得非常的納悶喔"},{"start":5285.407,"end":5311.76,"text":"所以對於這個國會改革的決心我相信我們在座每一位議員都有自己獨到的想法我相信只要大家能夠用心去把這個所送進來的這個法案這個討論審查之後我們一定會有一個最大的共識也會形成是民眾所期待的一個共識我相信"},{"start":5313.742,"end":5320.67,"text":"這個部分可能要我們草野不分黨派有志一同大家一起來思考才能夠達成這個目標以上"},{"start":5335.718,"end":5361.072,"text":"主席各位同仁我要講的大概就是說請大家要考量一下這個憲法憲法它其實不會像某些委員講的它會跟著這個時代然後短時間內就做巨幅的改變所以我們現在的版本國民黨在禮拜一提出來的版本其實跟2016年民進黨的版本還蠻像的有很多條文甚至都是直接"},{"start":5362.472,"end":5372.757,"text":"民進黨當年的版本不錯我們直接引用所以說這個法案會隨著這個時代變更那個是把憲法跟法律搞混了"},{"start":5374.383,"end":5374.503,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":5395.067,"end":5415.957,"text":"會隨著社會脈動然後會常常的修正的那個叫法律或命令那絕對不是憲法兩個等級不一樣就像你不能把打漆彈跟國防比當做同樣的東西一樣這是不能這樣比擬的所以大家要注意一件事情憲法是國家根本大法絕對不可能在短時間內"},{"start":5417.858,"end":5438.09,"text":"因此大幅度的變動所以這個理由我覺得是很奇怪為什麼當年覺得這樣現在覺得這樣這是兩回事第二個就真的是程序的問題我在這邊跟各位解釋一下其實禮拜一的時候各位都有提出兩個譴責案我想麻煩各位我們在這邊做的事情"},{"start":5439.127,"end":5452.756,"text":"依照立法委員行為法我是要如果對我有意見要送紀律委員會不是用譴責當天我為了議事的順利我真的不想要鬧這件事我下來這裡舉手反對我自己的"},{"start":5454.209,"end":5480.37,"text":"的這個譴責案因為這譴責案如果通過之後公告其實對民進黨是傷啊你拿一個錯誤的程序來這裡玩這邊的主席這是不對的甚至有委員在外面說看到我這樣做笑死其實我跟你講這沒有笑死你沒有照程序去譴責主席才會被笑死我在那邊說我們以後不要再犯這個錯如果我們以後誰在那邊做不好我們就送紀律委員會這個就符合立法院的立法委員的行為法"},{"start":5481.01,"end":5507.669,"text":"我們在這裡國家最高的民主殿堂凡事還是必須要依照法律來做好不好不只對我們也是我們對民進黨的委員也不能用譴責案我們還是送紀律委員會如果覺得有問題的話我覺得事情過去就過去了但是我想說之後的程序我們還是比較希望能夠依照法定程序來走不要一笑大方謝謝各位"},{"start":5509.377,"end":5510.298,"text":"在回復吳宗憲委員之前"},{"start":5532.83,"end":5553.44,"text":"如果要再做,若以憲法概念的大家來互相討論一下。剛才吳教委員講得很好,現在是憲法時刻。當然,那我要去司法的時候,那立法院表決的時候,我講過一句話,我們都要向憲法低頭。"},{"start":5554.62,"end":5568.848,"text":"大法院解釋同事合憲可以立專法後來立法院就照這樣的情形來處理當然我主張也是如此所以我們不希望看到黃中匪氣寡婦黏民"},{"start":5570.683,"end":5599.271,"text":"也就是說,憲法是一個核等神聖國家的根本大法。結果羅致雄委員可以自行講一些完全不合憲的言語。所以在這裡要講一句話就是說,到底那一天,羅致雄委員覺得很委屈、被譴責,那也是經過議決的。那到底為什麼要譴責你,難道不清楚嗎?"},{"start":5600.808,"end":5628.055,"text":"有編輯委員壓著你都當然大家都看得很清楚嘛這編輯委員跑了他當然跑了我們要煎好那個過程大家要很清楚嘛是不是你要照程序爭議來完全沒有嘛所以我們給你大於討論這是什麼這憲法之前是羅志祥賞給的啊是你召委賞給的啊而且這打字七零八括"},{"start":5629.622,"end":5648.389,"text":"職權草案不能發案：立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案：立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案：立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案：立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案：立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":5660.249,"end":5660.97,"text":"國內改革經過三十年"},{"start":5676.309,"end":5694.178,"text":"在上次最後的時候也是少於一年多,不過已經結束了。後來才結合有些疑慮的部分,那是我們國內的多數啊。我不敢讓它通過啊。難道那時候沒有官黨委員嗎?那時候沒有實力嗎?"},{"start":5695.816,"end":5719.854,"text":"而至於上個屆沒有民進黨嗎?沒有人在提嗎?那今天大家面對很好,我把我事件的核心價值與意義,就是這個地方而已啊。其他都是該改該修的,這個地方我們要弄清楚。不是可以置意妄為的。所以我今天要講的最後一句,要在今天講的就是說,有一句話就是說,對人有談情啊。"},{"start":5723.424,"end":5737.452,"text":"那事實上是,我們民進黨不要扮演齁,完全那個都研究會閉起來。不管民主、金融講什麼話,不然外面的整個批判,你們都不管這些。"},{"start":5738.959,"end":5763.908,"text":"晚時也應該點頭了然後告訴各位這是一個直播這是先人時刻大家要鼠目看前台灣的鼠目在看這個我常常講說這中中是中很好啊那為什麼他不敢講話所有提案他自己提案不敢說明大家越辯越明才對啦各位國民黨在海委員"},{"start":5766.486,"end":5793.746,"text":"我對你們感到很惋惜啦,會議已經走了,你們可以開始講話才對啊。你一直在看待這一刻,會反撲的,你不要以為這樣你寵,大家讓你寵,然後配合條例,分題一個人提的,配合一算一個人提的兩兆,什麼都沒有關係。我一算東西大法院一事就破功了,你自己起立法,"},{"start":5795.168,"end":5822.405,"text":"所以我們一定要用在合憲信底下那憲法框架原則底下好好審這個法案你會討人的啊但是不是說不管民進黨怎麼講如果想導釋就是說我賞給你們你們過去怎麼樣國會期的情形你知道嗎國會期情形是怎樣國會改革2016審了一年多了通過有通過不少條文啊但是對於國會調查權的部分"},{"start":5824.301,"end":5852.633,"text":"這大概是有所保留我自己也有所保留否則早就通過啦怎麼樣你可以引申到有國會藐視國會稅還要有重要部會首長人事同意權人事同意權只有我申請過兩次大概1997年已經修掉了沒有人事同意權這些都是要修憲的範圍"},{"start":5854.434,"end":5883.135,"text":"你不用憲法的角度,要修憲你用修法來處理,那修法也要修合理,也要在憲法的效果底下來修。今天核心問題是在這裡,希望國民黨委員二分之一能遭遇,你們可以扮演自己了。好,謝謝柯總召。接下來在審發會委員程序發言結束後,本席就要進行處理。好,那請,曾委員。"},{"start":5886.953,"end":5899.587,"text":"另外一位省委員,會議詢問待會,我們先讓這位省委員發言完。不好意思,不太習慣,因為以前都只有一個省委員,現在叫兩個省委員。"},{"start":5903.383,"end":5916.753,"text":"我想我個人一向很不喜歡說在委員會裡面把委員會當作call in節目來這邊玩所以我想我們還是就立法講立法就程序講程序"},{"start":5917.754,"end":5917.774,"text":"案。"},{"start":5948.214,"end":5977.102,"text":"更何況這個主張所以這個拿來這裡批評政黨我是覺得不太公允這是第一點第二點這個我想我們還是要就這個程序我們來談今天這個程序發言就程序來談第一個今天大家爭執的第一點就是禮拜一的那個會議裡面的到底是不是有程序正義當天我們最大的爭執其實都不是你們說不讓人討論什麼這個都是一回事"},{"start":5978.459,"end":5990.704,"text":"對我個人而言我認為最大的問題就是在程序上面有最大的瑕疵就是一個法條在委員會裡面最後是要決定要通過或者是要否決或者是要保留我覺得"},{"start":5992.518,"end":6014.992,"text":"這個都不是主席裁決的權利,主席不能說大家會議裡面決定,大家決定這個條文要通過,結果主席說那我裁決否定或我裁決不要我要保留,不行,這都是委員會大家公決的。所以那天最大的問題就是所有的條文都保留,民進黨每一個條文都提出意見說我們反對保留,這時候怎麼辦呢?這不是主席可以裁決說那我這一條就保留吧。"},{"start":6015.816,"end":6040.038,"text":"你可以說保留到後面討論,你不能說委員會結論就是保留,這個委員會結論如果是保留一定是經過會議議決。吳宗憲,吳宗憲我很尊敬你,但是這個是我那天對那天程序最大的質疑,這是保留不是主席可以裁決,把這一條文保留出去的。所以那一天可以說整個審查,到最後我個人認為這個程序都是有瑕疵,都有瑕疵。"},{"start":6040.697,"end":6065.289,"text":"再來就今天的程序而言大家在談說這個案子審過禮拜一審過了為什麼要重複審查這個有兩個角度剛剛都談過很簡單的我怕這個大家聽不懂我再簡單的整理一下第一個今天有一些條文是當天當是禮拜一沒有的當天今天一樣這個法案名稱一樣但是條文不一樣12條是溢出的條文"},{"start":6066.789,"end":6094.783,"text":"那你說這12條已經審過不能再審嗎?沒有這12條從來沒有審過所以今天當然可以審查這是第一點第二點你按照這個立法院職權行使法第12條第三項他這裡面很清楚的講過所謂不再審的前提條要件是什麼是對於審查會已通過這條文不再審查但是各位那一天在我們主席的裁決之下沒有一條通過通通保留"},{"start":6095.914,"end":6118.823,"text":"所以我們沒有一條是已通過的條文啊我們只有已保留的條文所以當然這不符合當然是可以再審查啊因為沒有任何一條已通過通通是保留再來最後我在這裡也特別跟羅志祥委員抱歉啦剛才在台下這樣子我個人是不喜歡這樣子但是為什麼我會講說新來這個不太不禮貌啦"},{"start":6119.443,"end":6136.25,"text":"但是事實上過去所有的這些議事衝突你再去看一次好好看那個錄影帶看那個議事錄其實所有的程序都有走停止討論一定有人提案停止討論雖然我在主席台被人家包圍拉扯但是一定有人提案說"},{"start":6137.782,"end":6155.594,"text":"提案,而且我針對這個提案還要做處理,我也不能像吳宗憲一樣說啊沒有那就這樣處理不行,我一定要說好我們針對這個提案要停止討論,付諸表決大家贊成不贊成,那贊成,好通過,表決通過。所以所有的這些,那時候為什麼我會再主持一次,其實在前一個"},{"start":6157.12,"end":6179.665,"text":"前一次其實我已經通過過一次了但是就是因為有這種程序不正義就像禮拜一一樣就是這個保留沒有經過會議議決就主席進行保留你沒有經過這個程序之後那個會議的效力我們後來就否定掉重新再來一次所以立法院不管有什麼衝突拉扯多數表決但是一定該走的程序通通要走完他才會算數以上"},{"start":6182.042,"end":6185.47,"text":"好謝謝那剛剛因為沈博洋委員有會議詢問請時間兩分鐘"},{"start":6194.249,"end":6221.107,"text":"好 沈博洋會議詢問 謝謝我應該不需要兩分鐘那麼久那我只是先回應一下今天最主要有這個為什麼我們今天要去討論這個的議題在這個之前我先回應一下吳宗憲委員不過他走出去了就是說第一個就是今天到底那一天為什麼是沒有經過實質的討論然後也沒有經過表決然後就全部保留這的確是一個程序的問題所以當時我們提出要譴責嘛"},{"start":6222.328,"end":6242.26,"text":"吳宗憲、趙偉那時候的主張是說因為怎樣有紀律委員會我在這邊再念一次立法委員的這個行為法本章所稱的這個叫利益迴避指的是立法委員行使職權不當增加本人或其關係人金錢、物品或其他財產我再念一次"},{"start":6243.2,"end":6262.121,"text":"只立法委員行使職權不當增加其本人或關係人金錢、物品或其他財產。」我就問吳宗憲、趙偉那一天你在程序上所做的不當的財事是增加了你的金錢上的不當的財產嗎?是利益迴避事項嗎?不是啊!它是整體迴避問題啊!"},{"start":6263.903,"end":6288.988,"text":"那為什麼要用紀律委員會?如果你自己覺得有金錢上的問題用紀律委員會那我當然很歡迎再來就是紀律委員會是要用主席才是你那天就是主席啊當時設計這個法條的時候根本就沒有把你這個狀況放進來嘛所以到底是誰沒有在念法律這件事情我覺得是值得商榷的或許這可能也不是法律的問題這是到底有沒有中文程度的問題"},{"start":6290.388,"end":6314.845,"text":"第二個我要講的是今天不斷地我們要實質討論這件事情今天提出的是到底有沒有重複我們講形式跟實質形式上總共24條文今天條號上只有12個重複那另外12個沒有重複的那怎麼會是重複討論呢這是第一個第二個是按照目前的法規如果說你今天有重複討論指的是你前面已經實質討論了嘛"},{"start":6316.326,"end":6327.476,"text":"我們前幾天有沒有做任何的實質討論沒有啊七個小時我總共只發言七分鐘這怎麼會是一個實質討論呢所以這完全不符合所謂的重複表決謝謝"},{"start":6330.421,"end":6337.128,"text":"好 謝謝我們審委員的確我們本委員會目前本席主持之下並沒有重複審查的問題那也謝謝剛剛這個審判委員的補充那在這裡就剛剛委員的詢問包括謝玉鳳委員不在場我也這邊做個說明那麼在我們本院"},{"start":6348.098,"end":6371.211,"text":"同一個委員會類似或同樣的法案名稱有沒有有不同招委來排的呢?我這裡提供兩個部分在同一屆當中我們111年在未完委員會第十屆第六次的第六會期當中有先由林惟洲招委排了《陰害防治法》的詢答他在3月23號排的詢答然後呢"},{"start":6373.092,"end":6393.32,"text":"在五月二十三號的時候由瀨會委員員進行來審查。那另外在第九屆第七次的會期當中同樣的交通委員會道路交通管理處罰條例當中先是有李昆澤召委排案審查然後呢又有四月二十九號陳雪生委員排案審查這都是本院"},{"start":6394.02,"end":6410.455,"text":"不同的委員會就同樣名稱的法案由不同的召委在不同的時間排審。至於提到說在不同會期當中甚至有內政委員會住宅法在第九屆第一會期是由黃昭順召委來排審。到了第二會期由趙天寧委員來排審。我要強調的本院的一事不在意原則配合會期不連續原則"},{"start":6419.043,"end":6429.821,"text":"他就是一時不在意在同一個屆期不連續同一屆當中我們對於同樣條號同樣內容同樣的法案呢我們做不在意"},{"start":6430.578,"end":6456.733,"text":"那是指同一屆那我們在同一屆的當中的不同會期也有由不同委員會來排審原因是什麼?原因在於該草案並沒有完成審查通過交付院會處理的程序我再強調一次因為目前委員會法案的秩序是在於我們侵襲役的委員會有審查完略並沒有通過任何版本的條文所以"},{"start":6457.393,"end":6470.16,"text":"到我們立法院職權行使法第十二條第三項並沒有已通過的條文重複或重新審議的情況。」那在這裡特別說明。那接下來我們就來進行提案說明及報告。"},{"start":6481.567,"end":6506.501,"text":"待會進行程序的進行我們絕對不反對不管提案說明乃至於行答但是在這裡我要點出一個問題記得禮拜一我在講話的時候有講過一句話叫藝術則不打我們眼睜睜看你怎麼演剛才省法院委員就點出核心的問題了"},{"start":6508.089,"end":6521.802,"text":"第二個立法院委員會在審查的時候要出委會都要每一個關卡都是合法的而且是有一節的都要表決的我們有異議你不管"},{"start":6523.298,"end":6546.626,"text":"這中間我要告訴國民黨委員要告訴民進黨委員上個禮拜一讓強行出委員會的議事程序法案全部合獨樹獨國的理論都可以廢棄的這是留下一個將來大家爭辯的焦點然後這個時間告訴各位我們過去不管怎麼樣人事都是少數"},{"start":6548.444,"end":6566.539,"text":"在衝突中沒有辦法順利審議的時候在所有人圍到底下主席要一直地言即便再怎麼困難也要把每一個關卡經過程序、表決、意義都要講完才可以出委員會"},{"start":6568.755,"end":6594.104,"text":"我記憶中最有名的一個案子,會計法修正國務教會。上次在審查的時候,趙惠水、趙偉世、郭國文。但是在審查的時候,他沒有把整個程序完整呈現,我們認了,重新再來。你認為這樣的行為,你認為走得過去未來在朝野鄉,未來因為我們的挑戰嗎?欲速則不達。"},{"start":6597.304,"end":6605.446,"text":"不要以為你們這樣一輪壓下去,我就眼睜睜看你們怎麼弄這問題請好好思考一下"},{"start":6607.468,"end":6629.221,"text":"好,謝謝我們柯總召的發言我們會確保每位在場委員的發言權益以及參與討論的權益這點本席會務必來貫徹那也非常謝謝到目前的進行為止呢各位委員都依照議事規則來進行發言那我們希望接下來我們繼續按照這個方式來走完那先進行提案說明及報告"},{"start":6632.166,"end":6645.304,"text":"報告部分我們已經有書面報告了那我們進行提案說明發言時間三分鐘首先請第一位提案人民進黨黨團代表吳委員思堯進行提案說明時間三分鐘"},{"start":6649.693,"end":6671.034,"text":"謝謝主席我代表民主進步黨團立法院職權行使法來進行提案說明首先開宗明義向所有的國人朋友那跨黨派的委員來進行報告民主進步黨這一次職權行使法修正的條文有24條大方向上我們恪守憲法絕對合憲合規"},{"start":6673.456,"end":6698.313,"text":"也遵從實務的經驗,它一定是合理可行的議案。更重要的是,國會改革要全責相符,國會有權就要有責,所以民進黨的版本絕對是在合憲、合規、合理可行、全責相符的前提下,我們的版本24條經得起檢驗,也歡迎各界一起來檢視。"},{"start":6699.714,"end":6719.708,"text":"那我來說明我們有四大面向的修正第一大部分是立法委員職尋權的保障要予以提升為了要保障來履行憲法五十七條第一項所定我國立法權之核心職權也就是立法委員神聖不可侵犯的職尋權我們要讓立法院的意識運作法制化"},{"start":6723.851,"end":6749.353,"text":"不再發生在院會或在委員會職權被沒收的情事。所以我們提出了第21條的修正案。第二大面向,民進黨團要強化立法院的人事同意權的行使程序,讓它更周延。不管是憲法層次或是法律層次的人事同意權的行使,我們都清楚地在條文當中來區分行使表決權之門檻。"},{"start":6750.814,"end":6774.297,"text":"而且為了要讓人事同意權的行使更周延更客觀更多元更來履行嚴謹性我們擴大學者專家公民團體社會公正人士的參與來強化審議程序我們要有公聽會第三面向就是重中之重的調查權民主進步黨的版本是調查"},{"start":6775.638,"end":6779.002,"text":"條約雙軌劃在院會層級有調查委員會在委員會層級有條約的小組那這個部分總共有19個條文完全都遵守大法官誓字585號"},{"start":6790.735,"end":6797.837,"text":"解釋六三三號的原則。立法院的調查權乃至於調閱權都是行使憲法職權賦予的輔助性權利,它是一個資訊的獲取權,所以民進黨的版本絕對不會是國會特徵處來入人於罪,也絕對不會有藐視國會罪強化人權的疑慮。"},{"start":6812.521,"end":6817.763,"text":"最後一項民進黨的版本很重要的就是也要來完備黨團協商的規範我們各提出職權行使法第七十條還有七十四之一條的修正要落實會議的公開原則那黨團協商的過程也應當詳實記錄而且透明公開在國會頻道來播放"},{"start":6834.128,"end":6836.129,"text":"另外,為了健全議事規範,我們也明訂禁負二讀之應交付黨團協商這個部分,把它明確化、法制化,不會發生由黨團不清楚規範產生實務執行爭議的事件。"},{"start":6850.439,"end":6855.041,"text":"那由提案委員來所屬的黨團就負責召集該次的協商讓條文更完備所以職權行使法民進黨有24個條文那樣樣像像我們都歡迎大家來提供寶貴的意見而唯有透過逐條充分理性多元的對話才能夠讓條文更好讓國會改革更進步另外再補充除了職權行使法民進黨的國會改革版本另外在議事規則也有提案"},{"start":6878.792,"end":6892.846,"text":"修正、在立法委員行為法也有提案修正以及在立法院組織法我們也有提案修正而這另外三個法案的修正到目前為止只有民進黨團提出修正因為民進黨團要求我們是"},{"start":6896.809,"end":6913.575,"text":"權責相符的國會而不是只擴權不對自我克責跟自律的國會這是我們版本跟在野黨最大的不同所以大家也歡迎一起去檢視立法委員行為法、立法院組織法乃至於議事規則的修正案只有民主進步黨版本提出負責任可行進步的條文謝謝大家"},{"start":6918.978,"end":6947.637,"text":"謝謝吳委員的發言在這裡主席也做一個宣告讓大家知道一下預告啦關於剛剛吳委員提到的其他的立法院組織法立法委員行為法以及本院的議事規則那麼我會在下週本席輪值召委的同時將包括民進黨在內如果還有其他黨團的委員或委員個人的提案都會併入來排付交付審議好那麼接下來我們請提案人翁委員小林進行提案說明"},{"start":6967.987,"end":6972.35,"text":"主席在座的各位委員各位行政官員大家好"},{"start":6973.891,"end":6977.586,"text":"今天在談到"},{"start":6981.099,"end":7004.629,"text":"這個應該說之前在整個程序發言其實拖了非常長的時間大家都非常關心我們的憲法如何規定我們這次所提的國會改革相關法案有沒有抵觸憲法我必須說這件事情其實在之前的公聽會上面還有這個多次的委員會上面的詢答裡面都已經確認過所提出來的"},{"start":7008.64,"end":7025.885,"text":"國會改革的種種的法案並沒有違背憲法的規定。」這個是我們在完備已經被遺忘已久的這個國會調查權以及國會改革的相關法案。之前民進黨委員口口聲聲說"},{"start":7035.353,"end":7040.8,"text":"我們所要求總統來立院進行國情報告是違憲。有違憲嗎?"},{"start":7046.394,"end":7071.288,"text":"請總統來立院進行國情報告並且接受疑問疑答。」這有違憲嗎?我不知道什麼時候他們真的變成憲法的釋憲者。好像我們所有的規定都必須要經過民進黨委員的認同不違憲,那才叫做是合憲的規定。請尊重每一位立法委員的立法權。"},{"start":7074.551,"end":7101.978,"text":"我雖然是新科立委可是我也熟讀相關的立法院的議事規則以及立法院的職權行使法說實在話我真的很佩服之前的尤其是民進黨的委員這麼會玩議事程序、議事規則既然你們認為國會改革的法案這麼重要為什麼要浪費這麼多的時間在談一些言不及義的東西"},{"start":7104.929,"end":7132.293,"text":"我必須講國會調查權的法制已經延宕太久我們這次提出立法院的這個調查權以及聽證權這個是為了要能夠充實以及彌補立法委員過去透過質詢以及預算審查所不足的地方"},{"start":7133.663,"end":7160.804,"text":"我們希望能夠更妥善的去執行我們的職權當然必須要有充足的資訊在沒有充足的資訊前提之下我們怎麼可能會做好去扮演好立法委員的角色去真正的去執行有關於這個立法委員的相關的這個職權所以立法院的聽證以及"},{"start":7162.173,"end":7187.37,"text":"的調查權是有必要的,而且不能夠僅止於只有限於調閱文件的部分。」民進黨所提的版本雖然換了個名詞叫調查權,但是它還是只限於調閱文件而已。這跟之前的調閱文件權沒有差別。而我們現在是要將調查權能夠擴大到連相關的"},{"start":7192.193,"end":7195.236,"text":"立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":7205.198,"end":7224.729,"text":"民進黨的版本口口聲聲說是一個進步的國會改革法案但是請各位可以仔細去看一看他們講來講去其實還是跟沒有修法的意思是一樣的所以呢在這邊我希望我們的所有的國會改革法案都能夠往前進一步否則的話就是退步"},{"start":7226.811,"end":7251.514,"text":"好謝謝翁委員接下來有請提案人呂委員玉玲進行提案說明呃呂委員有兩案請呂委員玉玲進行提案說明呂委員玉玲不在那我們接下來請提案人鄭委員天才進行提案說明鄭委員天才鄭委員天才不在所以呢接下來我們接續請機關代表報告發言時間三分鐘有請立法院周秘書長報告"},{"start":7259.415,"end":7284.707,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生大家好貴人會今天舉行全體委員會議奉邀內席就委員所提立法院職權行使法修正草案進行報告深感榮幸貴人會於本年4月15日願以針對臺灣民眾黨團擬具立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案等十五案審查完略先於說明"},{"start":7285.908,"end":7312.33,"text":"本次排審的六案職權行使法修正草案共計五案,大體可分為四部分,一個是國情報告,人事同意權執行規案及建制、調查、代償權機制,請檢量說明如下。國情報告部分有關國情報告,已歸委員會3月21日第8次全體委員會議獲邀進行專題報告,相關重點已進行報告及說明草案修正"},{"start":7313.431,"end":7330.75,"text":"規定能代委員凝聚公室,遠不再重複。」人事統一權部分現行六案職權憲法第29條僅針對現法位階人事統一權程序有所規定法律位階之人事統一權目前依慣例交由常設委員會出題針對統一權行使方式應採記名或不記名"},{"start":7335.083,"end":7357.63,"text":"一、事務案解釋第七、六、九號解釋議職各有利弊,各國立法律均有之,另就臨時同意權員是否一律召開公聽會,外國立法律一不一,均屬立法形成自由之範疇,當尊重委員合意決定。執行部分,委員提案你將施政執行改採固定時間制。"},{"start":7359.19,"end":7383.514,"text":"寧併執行進行之規範或針對被刑官員委婉義務者可以法律責任等節涉及貶厭行使職權之程序。尊重委員合意決定是否予以法治化。調查權部分一、司法院4585號解釋議職文件調研原為調查權重要方法之一。兩者就採分別規範或與專章內統一規範。屬於立法證書之選擇尊重委員合意決定"},{"start":7388.12,"end":7415.634,"text":"二、各委員會於本年4月3日、10日及11日召開立法院職權行使法修法公聽會,各界對調查權行使之課題、範圍界限及強制手段選擇之意見不一,學者專家也對如何有效監督行政機關並避免侵犯人民自由、隱私權、緩緩機密外線危害國安等面向提供許多寶貴意見,因應未來國會調查"},{"start":7418.3,"end":7436.022,"text":"聽證權之條條整當尊重委員在委員問政監督權益之維護各縣政機關之職權的衡平行使以保密事項所欲保護之法益,兼取得衡平二之合一決定,及以行政幕僚的立場"},{"start":7436.883,"end":7451.468,"text":"對於上開提案,我們尊重各位委員審議的結果,也會配合處理相關後續行政支援工作,以使編院職權行使更為順暢。以上報告,敬請指教。謝謝。好,謝謝。接下來有請法務部陳次長報告。時間3分鐘。"},{"start":7458.464,"end":7473.88,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位先生有關於今天審議的立法院職權行使法部分因為先前行政院已經有提出書面報告法務部對這方面尊重行政院的意見我要口頭再說明一下基本的架構我們是建議在"},{"start":7476.062,"end":7494.308,"text":"事法院四至第三二五、五八五號解釋、六三三號解釋、七二九號解釋等等的架構之下尊重各位委員審議的意見。那基本上這幾號解釋呢,大致上就是法律的明定相關的程序跟相關的這個"},{"start":7496.129,"end":7521.439,"text":"作法。第二個要得意見讓人民或是使用者包括委員包括機關能夠對意見他這個整體程序上的處理跟他後果如何。第三個可以做司法審查的部分。第四個要符合憲法23條之下的比例原則、法律明確性原則還有潛力分立原則等等這些的基本原則。另外有關於委員"},{"start":7522.259,"end":7525.26,"text":"短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短短"},{"start":7552.833,"end":7573.163,"text":"協議義務等等這些的架構之下的話呢所說的處罰是不是請委員再做思考那在刑法方面的話呢能夠用其他方式來做處理讓我們整體的這個國會的這個職權能夠更加的完善也讓各界不會有相關的疑慮以上報告進行指教"},{"start":7574.96,"end":7603.28,"text":"那個不好意思主席啊,會議詢問可以嗎?我要請教一下,今天有沒有請法務部提書面報告啊?我們委員會沒有要求法務部提書面報告,他只有口頭不是啊,我建議這樣啦委員會有委員會運作的規範跟尊嚴今天找一個連書面報告都沒有提的行政單位上去做口頭報告我認為期期以為不可"},{"start":7604.774,"end":7626.696,"text":"法務部的立場到底是什麼?白紙黑字寫出來白紙黑字寫出來因為行政官員站在上面講話都不用負責任的我建議啦我建議啦如果有要請他上去做狗頭報告的話請行政機關先把書面報告交出來連書面報告都沒有交"},{"start":7629.357,"end":7651.044,"text":"謝謝,謝謝黃委員的指教,因為本委員會在接續星期一、星期三之後,我們的時間比較倉促,所以考量到時間上的許可,我們准予我們次長,請。那我想那個我們就開始進行那個...沒有沒有,我要回憶一下。來來,請請,那個也是會詢問嗎?好,那請。我看法齁,王國昌完全一致。這一點我,我剛才在聽..."},{"start":7652.498,"end":7680.989,"text":"事長有講話的時候,我趕快跑到後面去,先拿一點出來,我以為他有很好的書面報告啊,因為他講話都非常關鍵啊。為什麼?主席你以後可能要注意,注意完整一點。是,謝謝。上台報告的官員都要有書面啊,這不能這樣做。紅中委員剛剛講的這個事,我很少跟他一介一致,要泡個泡下去啊。沒有,真理是越變越明。"},{"start":7682.765,"end":7706.486,"text":"因為為什麼我剛一聽我在這裡一聽的時候他講到五八五、三二五這就對,六三三就對啊前一陣子都對啊他是這個意見很寶貴啊這就點出來憲法的規定是怎麼樣什麼叫合憲性所以從這個角度觀點切入的時候來看待其他委員的版本"},{"start":7707.657,"end":7736.779,"text":"那當然我在這裡還是要公然講一下吳宗憲委員和王昌委員在國會調查權上面他寫的是符合5854線的其他國民黨版本是非常離譜5854線釋出來他是針對稅務的補充嘛那補充他極致是什麼可以划緩只能是花錢而已在合理強制範圍內最後的手段是如此不是抓去關欸"},{"start":7738.499,"end":7764.938,"text":"所以我們在這裡我是主張說大家好好講好好編不是自己創新法自己創法律這個東西是不會成的嘛但是我要點還是要點醒齁我剛才前一位你所提的問題齁請副運區委員好好思考一下因為他不要以為他什麼時候都把他幹盡了安心到大陸去訪中齁"},{"start":7766.803,"end":7768.968,"text":"好,謝謝柯總召的會議詢問那陳榮剛本席對黃委員的會議詢問說明因為"},{"start":7775.432,"end":7800.813,"text":"時間的關係因為我們本週的議程有比較倉促所以呢準與我們委員會對機關發出開會通知的時候考量到時間的需要那我們因為今天所有出席機關代表的口頭補充都有逐字稿那我們呢待會的相關書面報告呢跟口頭呢都會列入公報的記錄那麼如果"},{"start":7803.24,"end":7831.928,"text":"法務部可以的話,可以請次長將剛剛的口頭說明啊,也以書面的方式送交本委員會來,可以嗎?好,謝謝。來,那麼機關代表報告完畢,相關書面報告內容請各位參閱,並…主席我有事情要補充,可以嗎?我再強調一次啦,不管今天議程是怎麼排,受邀練習的主要單位,那不是用議程排是不是倉促?為什麼法務部有特權?"},{"start":7833.885,"end":7843.832,"text":"立法院秘書長報告交得出來?司法院交得出來?就只有法務部交不出來?這樣的理由我們有辦法接受?"},{"start":7845.646,"end":7872.058,"text":"主席倫茲召委本周事議程我准予法務部免交報告那這一點呢各位委員的指教我們未來在會議的進行會繼續的改正好謝謝委員的指教接下來提案說明及機關報告已進行完畢現在開始詢答詢答時間本會委員為八分鐘會本會委員為四分鐘均不再延長那麼目前呢就截止發言登記請登記第一位黃委員國昌發言"},{"start":7892.083,"end":7894.365,"text":"麻煩有請立法院秘書長有請莊秘書長"},{"start":7905.327,"end":7928.224,"text":"秘書長好,延續上一次在針對國會改革法案的時候對您所提出來的詢問我知道您作為立法院的秘書長基本上是一個行政幕僚總管的性質所以在很多法案上您不便表示一切這個我都理解那因此接下來在針對有關於國會改革相關法案關鍵"},{"start":7929.745,"end":7954.097,"text":"重要的問題您在您方便的程度範圍內表達意見就好不用覺得太勉強過這段時間不斷的有立委說依據大法官釋字729相關的議案只要有涉及刑事偵查立法院就不可以組成第二小組秘書長你贊成這樣的法律見解嗎"},{"start":7955.557,"end":7972.414,"text":"是可以成立啦是可以成立啦由於他的規範喔是不違背7號、9號的期試說得非常的好可不可以成立調閱小組啊跟調閱了以後可以調閱什麼東西啊這是兩個完全不同層次的事情秘書長你贊不贊成"},{"start":7974.176,"end":7980.478,"text":"贊同贊成嘛7月9他的關鍵是什麼7月9他的關鍵是啊我們的立法院司法法制委員會成立了一個調閱小組以後跑去跟最高檢察署啊要求要調閱什麼要求調閱最高檢察署特他61啊的案件啊祕書長"},{"start":8000.1,"end":8027.482,"text":"您知不知道為什麼會有大法官釋字729號解釋文當時有一些事情發生當初有一些事情發生嘛你講得非常非常的為外當初就是司法法制委員會成立的調閱小組嘛跟最高檢察署要調閱特他六十一的卷嘛所以才被人家提釋憲嘛大法官才宣告違憲嘛他宣告違憲的是什麼"},{"start":8028.303,"end":8037.574,"text":"你成立這個調閱小組了以後怎麼會去跟人家調閱偵查中的卷證呢是這一件事情被宣告違憲這個才是核心而當初這個監聽調閱小組提案要成立的正是民主進步黨的黨團"},{"start":8048.166,"end":8067.216,"text":"要去調閱特他61的也正是民主進步黨的黨團要去調閱這一個所以被大法官4至7月9宣告違憶憲民進黨團一天到晚在跟大家講毀憲亂政、毀憲亂政結果在我們的大法官事件史上729號"},{"start":8070.407,"end":8088.262,"text":"在729號裡面被清楚的記下一筆的正是民主進步黨黨團當初要調的東西第二個問題我就非常的納悶我就回顧當初監聽調閱專案小組那個時候的意思路我發現"},{"start":8089.537,"end":8116.34,"text":"那個時候要退他六十一有個非常重要的關鍵點那個重要的關鍵點是說因為我們的國會的電話是不是有被監聽那為什麼會產生國會的電話是不是有被監聽的問題因為那時候涉及到了我們那個時候立法院的院長王金平跟在野黨最大的黨鞭柯建民是不是有去關說司法的問題"},{"start":8118.004,"end":8143.464,"text":"叫曾永夫交代高等檢察署的檢察官針對柯建民所涉及的刑事案件不可以提起上訴就是因為這件事情整個風暴才全部都起來但我看完了以後我發現很奇怪那個說2013年監聽調閱專案小組柯建民某個程度上可以說是涉案當事人"},{"start":8144.724,"end":8156.403,"text":"他為什麼可以參加這個監聽調閱專案小組啊?律師長依照您的高度您對於立法院裡面利益衝突迴避的理解你認為這樣妥當嗎?"},{"start":8158.117,"end":8186.144,"text":"因為那是由委員會來組成的,我不太了解你也不太了解嘛,所以按照民主黨您今天表示的意見是說以後我們成立不管是調閱委員會還是調閱小組涉案的當事人自己參與這個調閱小組都不會有什麼問題民主黨您的立場是這樣嗎?按照相當規定去處理那你認為應該的相關規定是什麼?"},{"start":8188.211,"end":8208.901,"text":"涉及到有相關性的利害的當然有需要迴避需要迴避嘛OK齁秘書長您可能講到這邊啊我老實講已經是勇氣可嘉勇氣可嘉齁沒有關係第二個爭點過去又有民主進步黨的立委啊說政府惡毒一定"},{"start":8209.561,"end":8225.011,"text":"要交付黨團協商。」那個時候他們提出這個主張的時候我就百思不得其解到底規範在哪裡結果今天民進黨自己提出來的法案終於承認了這件事情根本沒規範"},{"start":8226.696,"end":8242.719,"text":"這件事情根本沒規範所以他們希望按照他們覺得他們想要的方式提了這個修正草案嘛秘書長我的理解有沒有錯誤如果容許我講兩分鐘可以是是是我給你兩分鐘"},{"start":8243.94,"end":8269.926,"text":"因為當時在第四屆第六會期的時候在處理的時候因為是由黨團有給法治局做就是黨團協商是原則是由法治局來主政來寫條文啦那時候我恰好是後面到台聯那邊去報告一些國會的運作回來以後當然在會的時候我是有加了第十條之一"},{"start":8270.606,"end":8298.186,"text":"那當時的法治局是認為大概比較沒有爭議的案會進入二度那在實際運作上反而是爭議的話才會進入二度比較多啦那後來這事變成是一個漏洞那漏洞就在公民投票法裡面有一個案例所以這也是不成文的一個例規一個意思例啦並不是在法院有規定所以才會有第八條的第二項"},{"start":8299.187,"end":8319.308,"text":"跟第三項如果有面臨到這個的時候再按照案例就是會交黨團協商是這樣的一個整個一個過程好來那就問題就來了嘛第一個我們剛剛確認了目前立法院職權行使法也好議事規則也好從來沒有一條說淨富二獨要交付黨團協商我的理解正不正確"},{"start":8321.616,"end":8340.743,"text":"好,那我們接下來再看實際的例子嘛實際的例子在第十屆第一會期第十三次會議的時候民主進步黨黨團自己提案喔進復二讀的提案喔欸他沒有說要交付黨團協商欸他進復二讀的提案是什麼必!造案通過"},{"start":8342.486,"end":8367.023,"text":"那奇怪囉?民主進步黨怎麼一方面要主張進步二讀一定要交付黨團協商喔?結果自己推的案子符合他們需要方便的時候這個進步二讀不用交黨團協商啊就直接照案通過啊因為拜讀他們的提案表啊這個是我們民主進步黨黨團總召柯建民簽名的啊上面寫說您請願會進步二讀並什麼?照案通過"},{"start":8370.882,"end":8396.924,"text":"那就奇怪啦!民進黨不是說政府要一定要交付黨團協商嗎?怎麼會提出這樣子一個違反他們自己心中所認定的規定的提案呢?這證明了什麼事?這證明了什麼事?這證明了民進黨心中他們在意的從來就不是立法院要怎麼建立規矩從來關心的就是我喜歡怎麼樣就怎麼樣"},{"start":8397.805,"end":8409.231,"text":"別人近乎二讀,不希望交付黨團協商。而自己近乎二讀,然後失望,造案通過,他就造案通過。我算啦,是很尊重主席的人啦。主席站起來了,我一定會尊重。"},{"start":8422.13,"end":8442.946,"text":"但大家所有在看的人可以去看看剛剛程序發言的時候說兩分鐘也好三分鐘也好站在對面講了多久站在對面講了多久大家可以去計時基本上面的規矩跟規範這個國會的運作我再強調一次不是某一個人愛怎麼幹就怎麼幹謝謝"},{"start":8450.421,"end":8468.092,"text":"好,謝謝黃委員的發言為了議事運作順暢有時候本席在主持會的時候會盡量給予多寬容那現在議事進行非常順暢就希望各位發言的委員能夠遵守我們發言的規則接下來有請我們柯委員發言"},{"start":8476.144,"end":8476.824,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8495.848,"end":8516.57,"text":"很可惜,他們委員走了,走了啦。他要挑戰我,我馬上要回答啊。他在做宿外裁判,今天講國會改革,他提到其他問題去,沒有關係,正好我在場。第一個,他們很守規矩,時間大就要走。剛才時間到了以後,他後面還講多久?"},{"start":8518.485,"end":8538.184,"text":"這個活生生的案例大家都現在都看得很清楚吧當然這個大家這樣所花的時間這是好事難免有時候國會是沒有100%啦但是大家都都基於尊重立場上所以呢黃委員你兩公共是在爭執嘛救世好就大家留在旁邊"},{"start":8539.21,"end":8559.854,"text":"這才是我們今天要面對的啊他講兩個問題我回答第一個729事實是怎麼來的只有事實因為我引起的當年九月二號戰爭大家都知道嘛我告黃世民幹嘛一久這個是我告什麼漢奴會憲政體制終結特務制國黃世民監聽國會"},{"start":8564.091,"end":8589.415,"text":"這何等大事啊前世的民主國家只要然後和馬來西亞人兩個人天天看監聽資料如何追查柯建民然後如何做政治操作這是馬來西亞人一輩子的恥辱華盛頓因此而下台可以監聽國會然後對我是二十四小時現役的各位"},{"start":8590.94,"end":8617.066,"text":"這是民主國家的現象嗎?所以我在這裡的時候問王子明你跟馬英九見面幾次?為什麼一個檢察總統誰以為跟總統分門呢?他說一次,我說你再想清楚他說兩次,我說你死定了各位,這個都是我留下的紀錄我說你死定了,為什麼?你根本隨時跟他見面嘛隨時跟他通電話嘛"},{"start":8618.686,"end":8647.249,"text":"然而總統跟總統在照政治操作違法監聽,這個世界民主國家總統就下台了。總統是憲法守護者。所以我是要尋釋掉的。掉的什麼?掉童年紀錄。到底馬英九跟黃毓民的童話童年紀錄,這掉出來真相大白。馬英九是何時能看啊?"},{"start":8648.386,"end":8670.067,"text":"這個官司他要跟我打嗎?是不是這樣?所以他很勤的抵抗前,不提供就是不提供。後來,好像市民還曾經跟蘋果日報講說,他要跟委員長通話無數,統統要同仁同義。所以他要調他的通聯紀錄,就是如此啊。他自己提供也自己來啊。"},{"start":8671.488,"end":8691.635,"text":"所以才有他們操作一個,才有一個大法官729解釋嘛,說政策中的安全不可以掉月子。要問的,這是一個,各位區議士這樣走過來,洪國昌到底懂什麼?他以為抓到我小輩子可以在這裡打我一番,痛打一番,可是他沒有臉來面對我。第二個,"},{"start":8695.691,"end":8700.217,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案：立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":8714.136,"end":8726.649,"text":"當然要朝野鄉一個月嘛。合作法立法院這個案子,我們國會,國會改了這個法,也不是在這裡審了啦。禮拜一國民黨也不要演這一套,進入二讀就馬上通過。今天當然要朝野協商啊。他幾個案例說進入二讀然後通過,那是朝野鄉裡面大家簽好的。"},{"start":8735.049,"end":8759.037,"text":"彭文昌彭文昌彭文昌彭文昌彭文昌彭文昌彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭文彭"},{"start":8760.484,"end":8773.649,"text":"希望他等一下進入主條的時候,我來跟他對這些問題。時間到了嗎?因為我黃班看不到。還有三分半。所以說今天我們是在講國會改革。"},{"start":8775.431,"end":8799.73,"text":"國會改革的時候就比喻說,把收支金額組馬上通過,不可能的。請問你用什麼手段,收支金額組可以,那才超享一個月嗎?當然是那種金額二組大家同意底下會馬上通過,這是立法院最快速的一刻。那兩手緊急事項,可能是條約案,可能是大法官釋憲時間一年到了,"},{"start":8800.779,"end":8829.285,"text":"不趕快處理,立法院會有失職守。這件事很特別,大家有共識的,才有可能提出驚惡圖,然後讓他牽草耳箱,讓他過去。所以黃國昌故意忽略那一段,如果要說事情,就要一天一天說。所以今天我要在這裡,用很短的時間,來告訴國民黨立委。我剛才點出一個很重要的問題,沒有程式正義,絕對沒有實質正義。"},{"start":8832.171,"end":8850.044,"text":"擬一般應當的所有程序全部違法。我不知道將來在院會的所有如何表決,什麼我已經很科技危險地點出來,我沒有好明講。所有反正都要經過一決了,大法官三四二號解釋,"},{"start":8851.448,"end":8879.42,"text":"大法官三思要解釋你為什麼有三思?因為國安戶口有關係當然國安戶口在任何表決處理的時候黃金平院長馬上喊通過沒有經過預決所以大法官三思要解釋說你把所有的事情經過預決的話除非違反憲法那可以排除其他法律因為你這個是在修憲法案你可以這樣搞法嗎?"},{"start":8880.981,"end":8901.527,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8901.852,"end":8928.57,"text":"吳宗憲委員、新科委員他根本不了解他在這個地方犯到幾下錯誤也隱瞞下著國會改革無法在AOI處理的衝突性因素我剛才講說國民黨總召傅文綺委員馬上去大陸他以為安心可以走了他走到幹什麼幹的都尾聲亂頓都走完了我警告各位國民黨委員在那天審查的時候"},{"start":8929.636,"end":8959.048,"text":"並且表情是無奈的,內心是掙扎的。因為國民黨的部分期判,黃國昌搭這個私入列車要開往前來,讓你們集體去跳樓,這是一個你們當那個違憲的兵馬俑,共同埋葬嗎?這一刻你們都得好好想一想,是怎麼搞的?因為我眼睛紅斑齁,我一直想走規矩啦。"},{"start":8959.915,"end":8986.267,"text":"此事若無所謂,也就我黃班正要在治療中。所以黃文謙國民黨委員,坐在這裡,主席會否無奈,你給副總召說啦。副總召就叫黃國昌兩個拔嘴一下,這是可以轉動台灣、轉動全世界以為是這樣的,可惜就是還沒掌控。請國民黨委員,你們未來要接受民意調查的這一刻,是你們最後檢驗時候。"},{"start":8990.375,"end":8999.983,"text":"謝謝柯總召,剛剛柯總召所說的主席應該是指周一輪值的吳釗偉,不好意思,還是要說明一下接下來有請羅委員志強發言有請周秘書長"},{"start":9018.152,"end":9030.687,"text":"民主黨好,其實同樣,也是跟黃國昌委員一樣有些在你能回答的範圍之內,我們就來就教一下今天民進黨2024年的國會閹割法案當然他們認為是國會改革"},{"start":9036.27,"end":9053.449,"text":"我這邊也跟秘書長報告一下實際上我覺得今天我看到2024年民進黨的國會改革法案我想到八個字就是欲練神功必先至功"},{"start":9055.38,"end":9075.378,"text":"就是典型的葵花寶典不過神功蓋世是行政院然後我們立法院就要在民進黨的所謂的葵花至公寶典當中就自我閹割這自我閹割不是個評價而已我們就來一一來就教一下我們民進黨真的是令人嘆為觀止的"},{"start":9077.66,"end":9094.058,"text":"自我閹割版本我先來講民進黨的這個2016年的國會改革版本跟2024年的國會改革版本到底差別在哪裡也就教一下我們的秘書長到底為什麼會有這樣的差別我們先來看第29條"},{"start":9096.001,"end":9112.67,"text":"第二十九條2016年的民進黨版本跟2020年差別在哪裡?第一個民進黨在新的版本這個閹割版當中把檢察總長、中選會主委、公平會主委、NCC主委的同意權從院會移到委員會審查"},{"start":9113.951,"end":9137.783,"text":"然後而且刪掉了2016年審查意見擬具報告提送院會他刪除審查期不得少於一個月的規定也就把我們的審查的密度跟期程縮短那更重要的是他把表決從記名改成無記名表決門檻也閹割本來在民進黨2016年版本是全體一半現在也是全體一半"},{"start":9138.786,"end":9147.852,"text":"他自己閹割掉啊,變成出席委員一半,變比較少啊,門檻比較低啊。所以我要跟各位講啊,我要想要請教一下我們的秘書長。"},{"start":9149.414,"end":9174.354,"text":"到底我們今天的表決以現在我們的立法院正副院長我們現在都改採記名表決已經大家都往這討論民進黨也認同所以民進黨的技術性的亮票都已經在做了那為什麼人事同意權今天結果我們民進黨的自我閹割版本的把它改成所謂的無記名呢你認同覺得現在還是人事審查權要無記名嗎"},{"start":9176.325,"end":9204.24,"text":"我想大概由委員來決定這一個到底要不要記名不記名啦那版本裡面來看是因為在禮拜一裡面大部分都是用記名表決啦來 方式來處理那現在的民進黨今天的提案版本是寫無記名啦那自己剛才有提到是一個現行法裡面的處理是不是憲政的"},{"start":9205.06,"end":9209.163,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文"},{"start":9225.914,"end":9236.026,"text":"我才為什麼一直剛剛跟我們柯總要講說什麼東施、孝平齁我說這今天不是用東施、孝平來看啊但你眼睛是放在2016年版本你知道稀釋捧心啊"},{"start":9236.952,"end":9238.313,"text":"二、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":9257,"end":9280.645,"text":"民進黨的第30條在2016版本他是要求被提名人學歷、經歷、財產、稅務、刑案記錄所有這些離離口口的相關資料都要拿出來喔欸今天2024年全部刪掉了所以被提名人的學歷、經歷、財產、稅務、刑案記錄都不重要嗎還是今天被提名人愛丟什麼資料就丟什麼資料"},{"start":9283.064,"end":9303.163,"text":"我想要問一下秘書長就是說基本上到底我們是不是應該對被提名人在審查更慎重資料更周全比較好呢審查密度能夠更高當然是比較會更卓越對被提名人會比較更了解接下來我們再看這個第45條"},{"start":9306.414,"end":9312.554,"text":"第四十五條在2016年的版本跟2024年版本最大的差別在於說"},{"start":9313.646,"end":9338.421,"text":"他就採取所謂的僅限於什麼樣情況之下我要跟各位講這立法的文字你應該正面表列先查法都正面表列但你還先自我告訴大家說什麼情況之下不能行使不能行使自然有相關法律跟憲法的規定但是不用這個卑躬屈膝道還要特別強調說我們只能如何如何才能開始進行所謂調查權"},{"start":9339.501,"end":9367.599,"text":"再來就講所謂的調閱我們講調查委員會跟專案小組的部分第46條民進黨的2016跟2024版本就是刪除了新的版本刪除了文件可在會期外調閱的規定將調查專案小組改為調閱專案小組全線限縮只能要求機關就特定議案提供參考文件"},{"start":9368.419,"end":9389.245,"text":"必要時才能夠要求文件原本。」2016年的民進黨不是這個樣子。我想請教我們的秘書長,會期並不限制立法權吧?我們在國會的調查權是屬於立法權輔助性權利,為什麼要用會期來限制我們今天的調查權呢?"},{"start":9391.517,"end":9416.994,"text":"以現行法來當時我們在理的說是這一個委員會或是小組成立一定在會期中啦至於在調閱的這個時間上是不受這一個在修會前是可以行使的然後另外吼要求竟然是只要求參考文件我真的是覺得說民進黨真的不要把立法院搞成行政機關的小媳婦啦小媳婦啦"},{"start":9417.708,"end":9432.292,"text":"那各位抱歉另外我再講一次比較嚴重一點的還有一點就是什麼呢還有一點就是民進黨這48條的部分那也很厲害他48條裡面呢他本來是說這個虛偽陳述的"},{"start":9434.733,"end":9454.943,"text":"要處罰 要罰虛偽陳述特別強調說謊官員要罰這是2016年民進黨版本裡面的可是我不懂為什麼2024年版本特別別把虛偽陳述拿掉特別跟大家講說抱歉我新的版本我沒有要處理說謊官員啦我現在請問秘書長說謊官員官員可以在立法院說謊嗎"},{"start":9461.084,"end":9461.905,"text":"我要跟秘書長說的,也跟我們所有的民眾說的"},{"start":9477.895,"end":9503.927,"text":"就是說這一段時間你會發現我們在談國會聽證調查以及尤其官員處罰的這個部分我發現民進黨有一個新的民進黨的朋友不敢說全部的民進黨有一個新的辯護的方式就是說官員在這個聽證調查竟然沒有說謊的權利啦我會發現會有這樣的一個印象就是2024年民進黨的版本當中竟然把虛偽不實陳述拿掉"},{"start":9505.553,"end":9527.392,"text":"這個版本能看嗎?我真是覺得民進黨你對不起我們2016年的民進黨啦以上好謝謝羅委員的發言齁那麼先做預告稍後在省委員發會詢答完畢後我們休息五分鐘接著請省委員發會進行詢答喔對不起換過了嗎喔對不起齁這邊是吳世耀委員抱歉好"},{"start":9540.384,"end":9541.805,"text":"國會改革需要符合程序正義,更需要合憲合規。國會改革要回應人民的期待,有權就要有責。下一頁這三個缺一不可的要素您都支持嗎?"},{"start":9567.438,"end":9568.439,"text":"所以他當然要程序正義當然要合憲合規當然要選擇相輔下一頁"},{"start":9587.148,"end":9597.099,"text":"但是呢,非常遺憾,我們的國會改革就從這週一的被社會看見了,社會也撻伐了。竹條但不被審查,然後有案卻沒有辦法併案。"},{"start":9603.966,"end":9624.695,"text":"所以我要再次說程序不正義這是可惜了國會改革而我們再看看我稍後會來檢視我們都同意國會要更有武器更能夠有效監督但是國會的職能要提升所以呢我們不能過當的只從擴權的方向去提案"},{"start":9628.757,"end":9656.797,"text":"我們應當在憲法給予的非常清楚的界限裡頭提出合憲的條文然後權責也不能不相符我們不期待更是社會不期待的只談擴權不提立委的自律跟克責的這種國會三個要件都不具足這就是國會的假改革程序不正義不合憲不合規"},{"start":9658.738,"end":9667.203,"text":"權責不相符,這就是民服其實的國會假改革,也是不折不扣的國會增擴權。」"},{"start":9670.596,"end":9694.25,"text":"我前一位委員羅志強委員他真的很喜歡回顧歷史喔修法要往前走修法不能逗退嚕我們國會要更進步修法不是在懷舊不是在考古我已經多次說明了不需要東施笑評要學就好好學要抄條文就抄好的條文"},{"start":9698.732,"end":9700.373,"text":"民主進步黨2016的條文經過社會的檢視沒有社會的公示所以我們喊卡這是負責任的權利自治民主進步黨2016的條文正因為跟憲法585號"},{"start":9715.205,"end":9737.563,"text":"有關於調查跟聽證權的漢格他是有違憲之餘的所以民主進步黨即使居於國會多數我們也不會強行碾壓在憲法之前每一個人都要低頭都要謙遜所以羅委員很喜歡拿2016民主進步黨自己都已經認為經過檢視不適宜再提出來的法案"},{"start":9742.527,"end":9761.138,"text":"結果現在羅志強委員一再的拿2016年的版本來奉為歸孽。修法不是懷舊。修法也不是文化資產一定要復舊如舊。修法就要進步、合憲、往前走。"},{"start":9761.878,"end":9781.744,"text":"所以我這裡提出來有關於漢革了行政人士權有關於要超越了司法權跟監察權有關於違反憲法第三、增修條文第三條以及四之三條的總統到立法院國情報告的憲法規定這些都是現在國民黨版"},{"start":9783.174,"end":9806.938,"text":"民眾黨黨所犯下的凌駕憲法的違憲條文。」所以我這裡再一次列舉違反大法官釋字不勝美舉。認真的委員、虛心檢視的委員應當好好的去把這些釋憲案從頭到尾看一看。下一頁。"},{"start":9808.493,"end":9811.174,"text":"民主進步黨的版本保障立委的職群權。我想民主黨應當同意為了讓議事人員好做事也不會凡事都推給議事人員來當代罪羔羊所以民進黨在職權行使法21條提出我們明定立委職群的順序及時間"},{"start":9827.159,"end":9837.183,"text":"就不會再發生因為其他立委沒有到場或提早諮詢結束然後也逼得主席當下也不知道該如何示好然後祕書處的人員也急得如火鍋上的螞蟻不知道要怎麼樣來緩解這樣的狀況這是過去30年立法院沒有發生的狀況"},{"start":9846.067,"end":9861.581,"text":"所以民進黨入法、法制化讓委員的質詢的時間予以法制化您應當支持吧這是避免我們議事人員未來的困擾也不會讓韓國瑜院長未來也會有再一次的困擾您同意吧"},{"start":9863.503,"end":9869.269,"text":"因為當時在黨團協商,我們有做過演繹當然這次行使職權程序還是有審查會來做決定不過我只跟委員報告"},{"start":9877.256,"end":9879.497,"text":"事由．立法院司法及法制委員會議．立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":9901.664,"end":9910.957,"text":"有支持方每一個議案的進行每一個法案的執行會有它好更好的一面也許也會有"},{"start":9912.459,"end":9920.806,"text":"產生一些委員要在場等待的情形但我相信多數的委員是願意等待時間的啦因為憲法所賦予的立委職權權是神聖不可剝奪的也請這是一旬剛剛秘書長提醒的非常好這是韓國瑜院長所召開的朝野協商的結論我們把它入法化法制化下一頁"},{"start":9935.777,"end":9953.153,"text":"我們來看看民進黨的第二個部分就是完備人事同意權的行使程序有關於記名或無記名我也要糾正一下羅志祥委員的說法您的說法錯誤民進黨團沒有去更正記名或無記名的修法"},{"start":9953.894,"end":9970.585,"text":"而是維持現行條文。國會從過去到現在對於人事、對人的同意權一向是以無記名投票來為之。」包括這一次大家在投的立法院的韓國瑜院長。就是如此。所以民進黨在職權行使法針對完備人事同意權的部分我們在29條、30條、31條就是要讓它可以加嚴、加密"},{"start":9979.19,"end":9986.295,"text":"的好好審查而且民進黨的版本是可以輔助召開溝聽會講話人事審議程序的多元客觀嚴謹性我想這個部分我們在審議過程當中應當也可以獲得社會人民的支持因為不管在憲法層級或法律層級的人事同意權民主進步黨的立場就是讓他加嚴加密的實質審查謝謝下一頁"},{"start":10008.717,"end":10012.064,"text":"好,重中之重來了為了不跟憲法585號的釋字案漢革我們嚴格的檢視"},{"start":10017.598,"end":10038.781,"text":"職權行使法的調查調閱的這個章節。民進黨在第八章裡頭分兩個章節分流處理雙軌處理才不會有所漢格也在權力義務非常的明確所以我們的調查權是依憲法賦予立法院職權有重大關聯者"},{"start":10040.529,"end":10045.112,"text":"然後不得侵犯行政特權不得調閱訴訟中案件也詳定了保密的義務更增訂了利益迴避的義務以及如果有人在調查調閱的過程當中行使了這個虛偽不實之陳述我們也依法律的授權對不起是憲法的授權增訂行政法這是大法官解釋325號"},{"start":10069.79,"end":10093.579,"text":"五八五號六三三號七二九號的規範我們都符合憲法的規範所以民主進步黨2024的版本是有調查權是有調閱權請在野黨的委員不要來做虛偽不實的訊息傳散再次強調沒有任何人可以在國會說謊"},{"start":10096.018,"end":10121.93,"text":"民主進步黨絕對要求在國會的每一個人都要基於事實去陳述沒有任何人可以在國會說謊所以如果有虛偽不實質陳述依憲法的規範依大法官誓字所賦予的授權增訂相關的行政法環這是民主進步黨合憲的主張但是民進黨不會支持國民黨黨的藐視國會罪"},{"start":10125.111,"end":10138.51,"text":"因為他擴及人民今天路人甲路人乙都會被傳來國會問到滿問到飽今天任何一個企業不管是中小企業還是大型企業也會被立法院叫來"},{"start":10141.346,"end":10162.755,"text":"條約、調查、問道滿、問道保如果你講的答案不是立委要聽的對不起藐視國會罪被關三年罰三十萬還有更高的罰還這就是強害人權所以最後呢我要再次說明國會改革就是權責相符不能夠容許"},{"start":10167.575,"end":10181.846,"text":"國會特徵組在這一次的在野黨版本裡頭具備創設出來。國民黨的版本國會特徵組藐視國會罪就是要打造不折不扣的"},{"start":10184.439,"end":10207.677,"text":"國會特權組。」我們表示反對。我在這裡,對不起,佔用了多一點的時間,因為這個議案非常的重要。也希望秘書長基於您的專業,基於您的經驗,基於您的背膀,在審查的過程,言所當言,為所當為。這是我們的歷史責任。好,謝謝秘書長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝委員,謝謝周秘書長。現在一先前的宣告,休息五分鐘。"},{"start":10212.817,"end":10236.315,"text":"二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案案件事宜、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事宜、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事宜、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事宜、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事宜、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案件事"},{"start":10236.775,"end":10238.658,"text":"之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":10749.424,"end":10754.226,"text":"繼續開會,先處理會議時間,中午不休息,上午會議繼續進行,至討論事項個案的審查。接下來請林委員施明進行詢問。"},{"start":10774.849,"end":10785.453,"text":"謝謝主席也謝謝我們好同事我們林士民林委員有請我們立法院我們周秘書長我請周秘書長周委員好秘書長好有幾個關於議事的部分來就教你也算大家給你尊重的叫做老心肝我"},{"start":10801.004,"end":10826.825,"text":"但是我問你要不要給我贏啊?你沒有抽筋嗎?叫我自己看。我跟你說過之後,人家就跟我說我怎麼落馬呢?說我自己羞辱太多。我覺得我羞辱沒有吧?是啊。我也有發論的。我也做律師王說落馬,聽到那些人的気持是吃肉的你知道嗎?但是啊,我要來就教民主黨就是說,就是說我們立法院裡面,整個議事規則裡面,你認為有沒有什麼叫意義權?"},{"start":10834.509,"end":10861.102,"text":"在議議前裏面大概保留院內發言的時候大概譬如說委員會裏面他對於這一個審查結果有意見的話他就保留有意義就保留院內發言大概法條裏面大概有這個規範在哪個地方其實在我們立法院的職權行使法第68條第三項裏面他有去講各委員會在審查議案也不用院會讀到有爭議的時候主席就可以裁決來進行協商"},{"start":10863.463,"end":10882.498,"text":"這其實也是在廣泛、也是在說意義權啦!會通嘛!對不對!你要看啦!我們拜日啦!我不要讓你太為難啦!我們拜委員會來的審查立法院職權行使法的時候啊!你也要現場啦!那民主黨你可不可以認同當時是不是屬於各個委員會審查議案碰到那天這樣是不是叫作剛才的爭議?"},{"start":10885.083,"end":10892.928,"text":"因此我未變壞,因為委員會的審查與委員會的直接處理,因為我大概是院會的幕僚。我不要害你,國民黨把你趕走啦。吵到那種程度了,當然就是爭議啦,當然就是爭議啦。但是爭議的時候,怎麼樣去解決啊?其實啊,我們議事規範裡面都講得非常清楚啦。你像比如說啊,"},{"start":10909.099,"end":10928.324,"text":"那時候朱先生裁決所有的議案都保留送草也協商。我要來請教你了就是說在我們立法院職權行使法所做的裁決的這種協商的主席是裁決送協商或是送出委員會協商或是說協商是在委員會裡面來協商"},{"start":10930.836,"end":10951.173,"text":"應該要這樣說啦,因為這個剛才專委所提的六十八條第三項你看在第三項裡面有另外的規定在委員會中啦那另外一個狀況當時在設計的時候在第四屆第六會期在當時交下來我研究設計的時候因為我本身有當時考量是"},{"start":10951.934,"end":10975.074,"text":"委員會中心,院會的黨團協商是輔助性的,但是一個接軌,所以要協商的話,應該先開始一定是委員會的召集委員去召集協商。所以這叫做有專業的人,所以我不要為苦而讓你跳,所以大家都很清楚嘛。那協商當然就是在委員會主席,譬如說宗嘉濱委員那其他這邊在主持的時候,大家有意見嗎?"},{"start":10976.355,"end":11000.863,"text":"當然就是要協商啊。要我補充,不是。協商有兩種。一個在委員會開會當中的協商,那是委員會的主席。那當然。那如果這個案已經審查完畢,送到委員會的時候需要協商,那個時候還是委員會的招集委員,不是協商。是嘛。所以我們委員會當場裡面碰到有爭議的時候,本來就可以這個這個這樣來做協商。那你認為當天的主席這樣處理好不好?"},{"start":11001.81,"end":11003.931,"text":"而立法院最不要創下這種惡力就是說我今天特別去提醒就是說我一早我就跑三個委員會"},{"start":11027.168,"end":11029.299,"text":"我們有提案,我們一定要提案說明,讓人聽嘛,說我們為什麼要提案嘛。"},{"start":11032.305,"end":11057.216,"text":"提案稍後,你再看,你如果說我們對法律在做諸條審查的時候法令到底是什麼,大家來表達意見嘛你贊成還是反對,不然你告訴我贊成的人聽聽你反對,覺得你的也有道理看要怎麼加進來,還要怎麼做修正所以法案如果在委員會裡面,我們一直在強調委員會中心主義那如果審到最後就是連提案說明"},{"start":11058.556,"end":11074.483,"text":"不容說明,主條兩種賣,碰到有爭議,也不在委員會裡面做協商。這個是非常不合理的。最近我來套一個最近很紅的一個電影,我希望議長在主條在審查的時候,表達意見的時候,我不用想大廚擲筊啦,跟官聖帝君擲架的時候擲筊,擲筊說我今天可以來做主條討論,你可能比較沒在看這個啦,但是現在網路上很紅。"},{"start":11087.449,"end":11088.991,"text":"所以我要請教秘書長就是說像我們碰到這種狀況碰到這樣的一個狀況在審查過去民進黨在審查我相信最大的爭議的最大的一個政黨之間會產生最大爭議的一個法案就是不當擋產條例"},{"start":11106.73,"end":11124.709,"text":"你去看看,那時候在審的時候,蔣其成、李燕秀、陳超明、王玉敏甚至於前時代力量的委員黃國昌,大家也是都討論啊。討論到最後你都沒有共識以後啊,那你才去動用表決,當然要不要協商。"},{"start":11126.11,"end":11147.656,"text":"包括輸贏,這就是大家的感恩,叫議事定時來,社會自有公斷。但是在禮拜一的時候,大家都沒有機會講,這個就非常非常可惜了。那另外接下來要請教的就是說,我也請我們法務部陳次長可以上來一下,就中你們兩個老先角,這個國會調查權,"},{"start":11150.27,"end":11161.926,"text":"我相信今天在黨的委員一直在提說民進黨2016年有是啊有啊連我都跟顧立雄共同提案我也贊成要國會調查權"},{"start":11164.522,"end":11179.99,"text":"這確實是一個輔助立法委員行使職權監督行政部門的一個很好的一個工具嘛行政部門本來要接受立法院的一個監督但是呢當初就是真的就沒有共識所以只通過了一些國會改革的一個法案像比如說直播"},{"start":11180.65,"end":11185.273,"text":"現在看起來已經是很簡單的事情了但是為什麼說國會要改革是我們要被改革啊我們要去改進啊那如果說又碰到爭議的話我也認為很麻煩像現在這麼多法案裡面我從秘書長你的報告書面報告裡面我也看到了你幾乎每一個"},{"start":11203.386,"end":11227.59,"text":"事項你都講 這都是立法院自己來做決定就好就只有四個事嘛 國會自主嘛但是這個國會自主 它的射程到底會有多遠範圍到哪裡 強制手段要到什麼地步甚至於這個課題到底是只有行政部門 還包括老百姓這個就當然要討論啦 譬如說你還敢這樣嗎?這罐頭都不用討論的 你去問這個不用討論嗎?"},{"start":11230.991,"end":11235.613,"text":"因為你們要合議啊是啊就是說大家要合議什麼叫合議就是要討論嘛沒有討論哪來的合議呢我必須要指出來了就是說我一直非常擔心啦2016年的法案當初就是因為沒有共識也被國民黨批評為這個叫擴權那現在國民黨好像撿到寶貝一樣嘿過去你民進黨有這樣主定嗎全部都把他嚇死了"},{"start":11257.342,"end":11272.141,"text":"這個叫進步我沒有意見但是我再次提醒為什麼請次長上來就是說翁小玲翁委員她留學德國她算是一個法學素養非常豐厚的一個委員但是我為什麼要在這邊提醒呢"},{"start":11272.922,"end":11278.964,"text":"當年你看那個德國在發動國會調查權的時候德國他在阿富汗駐軍一又十萬當年在從阿富汗撤軍的時候國會發動調查權要去調查說當年在撤軍這個程序到底有沒有完備有沒有保護到他們的阿兵哥第二個就是說在調查他們的阿兵哥在撤退的時候到底有去跟人家搶搶到阿富汗那裡的被子有去把女兒被打到嗎"},{"start":11301.11,"end":11310.634,"text":"德國他們國會發動調查權可是他們國會調查權就跟我們現在的憲法法庭解釋一樣他很重要揭示出一個什麼就是跟你講說要發動調查權"},{"start":11315.641,"end":11324.513,"text":"國內發動調查委員幾乎都是基於政治的鬥爭為目的,可是呢,如果涉及到人民的話,你必須要有公義性。你若沒有公義性,三個要調查的就調查,到時你說虛偽的陳述,就三當。"},{"start":11333.973,"end":11341.617,"text":"立法院沒有這麼大的權限啊。憲法23條在講比例原則嘛,你倆都大聲的嘛,對不對。我們在創設一個藐視國會,就變成創設憲法23條的一個例外的一個規定。我擔心的是這個啊。"},{"start":11350.781,"end":11369.396,"text":"委帝國黨內立法黨內人你說要不要救濟當然要有救濟甚至於要不要仿效德國他們所規定的國會調查權裡面連證人連證人民被你調查到傳喚到找到國會裡面來他都會有像我們刑訴訴訟法裡面的規定的拒絕證言權喔"},{"start":11371.397,"end":11397.251,"text":"哪些需不需要?有需要沒需要?我如果今天是法官,一個案子我審,你們要傳喚證人的話,我會跟你說:「欸,次長,你傳那個證人沒有必要,我就裁定把你駁了掉。」現在立法院連這些相關的配套都沒有,這是我很擔心的地方。強制的手段到底會不會過高?甚至於說你那個課題到底要不要加到人民?簡單請那個次長回應一下。"},{"start":11400.092,"end":11422.512,"text":"市長請簡單回應因為時間關係基本上呢重點是立法也要注意到比例原則這四個字啦齁那在比例原則下的話呢相關的作為也應該注意到正當程序前端的保障才能做後端的強制這樣的要配套所以剛才民進黨也提到說合意嘛合意大家要講的好就講那在比例原則合乎正當程序在後面強制的時候是不是過檔"},{"start":11423.513,"end":11448.068,"text":"等等這些做深切施法。那秘書長你認為那個人家德國憲法法庭他們揭示出來的他們要發動國會調整要具備公益性才可以,你認不認同?國會委員會去考量啦,並這個相關的一些原則大概都委員會會把在討論的過程大概會考量。好謝謝,謝謝莊委員、謝謝秘書長、謝謝次長。接下來有請林委員、施銘詢答。"},{"start":11465.873,"end":11465.893,"text":"項目。"},{"start":11473.192,"end":11475.755,"text":"民進黨黨團的修法這一次召委排審的有五個案"},{"start":11489.988,"end":11511.521,"text":"大概可分為四大部分,就是有關國情報告、人事統一權、質詢的規範還有建制、調查權的機制首先我想先對有關質詢規範來就教我們的秘書長我們看這次民進黨團提案陣列《立法院職權行使法第21條第四項》"},{"start":11513.982,"end":11527.419,"text":"就議事處依第一項登記名單擬定質詢順序及時間,立法委員依表定時間進行質詢。表定時間已屆經暢明三次不在場者,視同放棄質詢。"},{"start":11530.764,"end":11538.976,"text":"這部分我是想說這個可能要經主席暢明三次不在場,適同放棄質詢,建議可能你們做這個修正,因為我們原來的議事規則是說經主席,主席兩個字好像漏掉了。"},{"start":11545.706,"end":11569.214,"text":"當然我想這樣的一個修法我想表達的是說這部分也感謝民進黨肯定韓國瑜院長主持院會的公正無私並無沒收他們當時一直主張的說韓院長沒收這個委員的總質詢的權利我想藉由這個條文的一個修正我們看得出來"},{"start":11570.134,"end":11598.884,"text":"其實韓院長當時唱名三次委員不在場其實就是放棄執行權了所以才會有這種情形把它訂得更清楚一點但是把它訂在立法院的執權行使法21條第四項這個部分是不是妥當是不是有重複規定我要救教一下我們的秘書長"},{"start":11603.065,"end":11626.231,"text":"議事規則第29條第一項規定施政方針及施政報告之質詢於每會期集會委員報告日起至開後七日內登記之所以我們的施政報告之後的總質詢它也是採登記制"},{"start":11628.391,"end":11649.837,"text":"那麼在二十九條也規定以登記發言之委員經主席暢明三次人不在場者視為放棄所以其實議事規則已經就以登記發言的委員如果經主席暢明三次人不在場你就視為放棄"},{"start":11651.858,"end":11672.739,"text":"所以我們在這個總諮詢也是用這樣子的一個議事規則的規範請問秘書長你同意嗎要這樣說明啦其實議事規則這部分是因為有提案討論表決所以在暢明三次表決是在討論中啦那我們施政報告的諮詢裡面我們是在每一次的"},{"start":11674.32,"end":11693.106,"text":"總實情一開始主席就會宣告所以當天的情況我們一直也對外有說明是因為主席已經宣告如果你不在場的話就是蔡明山就事為棄權所以這個就已經有用現行的在規範裡面就因為多數都是引用19條"},{"start":11698.228,"end":11719.337,"text":"我沒有特別說明,其實是應該是在我們總執行的在進行期已經有做那個宣告。是,當然民主黨講的沒有錯,我們在這個總執行一開始院長也做這種宣告。當然我們因為今天我們要立這個法嘛,官民黨團要立這個法,所以我就要救教你,其實一是規則,因為院長在宣告也"},{"start":11720.157,"end":11734.364,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案 案件之一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案件之一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案件之一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案件之一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案件之一、民進黨黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案件之一、民進黨黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":11745.43,"end":11766.961,"text":"會不會讓我們感覺到有這個畫蛇添足這樣的一個感覺那我也請民進黨的黨團你們來思考這樣的一個議題所以我就叫秘書長說這樣子議事規則有規定的東西在具立法院職權行使法來訂正相關的規範是不是這樣子的一個規定"},{"start":11768.582,"end":11796.131,"text":"因為你是議事規則的問題,定在職權行使法是不是讓我們感覺說這個體力有不符的一個感覺?所以可以補充一下嗎?因為這一個民進黨團提的這個案倒不是在這個地方啦。它是要固定時間啦。是在固定時間,所以當時黨團協商的時候,我委員也在嘛。所以他說主席在針對這一個裡面是沒有共識嘛。"},{"start":11797.952,"end":11824.138,"text":"所以才要求議事處去研議啦那研議現在大概我們議事處本身也有研議出來一個結果啦但是這裡面就是比較如果照這個條文來裡面就會有面臨到一個狀況就是說雖然有去登記但是如果這個委員他來不及來或是他提早結束那官員就一定要坐在那邊等這個會產生這個情況"},{"start":11827.099,"end":11828.58,"text":"議員呂玉玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":11851.175,"end":11852.436,"text":"委員呂玲等17人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":11875.69,"end":11901.247,"text":"民進黨團可以思考一下並沒有反對只是提出來大家來做一個理性的思辨另外說針對國會調查權的這一個部分我想民進黨是針對調查權他裏面提到45條第二項說前項調查權行使僅於憲法附與立法院職權有重大關聯之範圍內使得為之請問民主黨"},{"start":11905.89,"end":11931.337,"text":"何謂憲法賦予立法院之職權有重大關聯之範圍?」您解釋得出來嗎?我沒辦法做這個說明,因為調查權裡面,因為我們這個地方應該是從那個司法院的大法官會議去解釋3號跟5號來看的。是,是,我了解,我了解。他的引用相關的文字。其實我的意思,"},{"start":11932.762,"end":11957.51,"text":"本來我們憲法63條就賦予我們的立法院立法院的職權那我們的立法院的職權行使法我們每一章也針對我們這個憲法所賦予我們的這個職權我們就職權行使法就分別的把它列定我們的一個權這個行使職權的範圍所以現在在第二項"},{"start":11958.63,"end":11963.655,"text":"談及你能行使調查權範圍僅憲法附以的職權有重大關聯的範圍內。所以這部分所謂重大關聯範圍由誰來定義?我是就叫祕書長,誰來定義?因為這是一個非常不確定的法律概念。"},{"start":11979.051,"end":12003.491,"text":"以後又會產生重大爭議。我說可以調查你說這個跟憲法所賦予立法院的職權沒有重大關聯又會爭吵不休各黨各派又會有自己的意見所以這樣的一個立法把不確定的法律概念定在我們的立法院的職權行使法四十五條第二項正列上去您認為妥當嗎?"},{"start":12004.872,"end":12007.454,"text":"謝謝林思敏委員的質詢。我們接著有請下一位陳俊宇委員質詢。"},{"start":12046.496,"end":12055.335,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們有請秘書長跟我們司法院的陳廳長好謝謝有請秘書長還有廳長請"},{"start":12060.978,"end":12083.812,"text":"陳委員好秘書長好、廳長好首先我先請教我們司法院陳廳長那在上個禮拜啦齁上禮拜士林地院的理性法官那已是因為工作壓力過大而不幸墜樓離世啦齁那一位這麼優秀的法官發聲如此的憾事令社會各界非常的萬喜"},{"start":12084.755,"end":12105.45,"text":"那根據媒體的報導在這個遺憾的事件發生之前那李信法官就曾傳簡訊給他的妻子表示說我很累也曾提到說因為這個太多的這種工作壓力讓他可能不堪負荷"},{"start":12106.584,"end":12122.096,"text":"那顯示法官恐怕是長期處於這種高壓過勞的這種工作的環境之下那像這樣的情況我先請教一下我們這個陳庭長您的工作壓力會很大嗎?"},{"start":12124.855,"end":12127.336,"text":"我只有近兩年是在司法院服務那之前都是在辦審判的工作"},{"start":12157.504,"end":12179.755,"text":"因此可見應該在基層的這種法官那種壓力是不堪負荷的那我想請問就是說針對我們這個理法官的憾事也讓我們再次提醒減輕司法體系的這種負擔以及工作負荷的過重的問題是刻不容緩的"},{"start":12180.95,"end":12202.835,"text":"但其實過勞的這個議題已經存在一段時間了那過去不管是在立法院還是民間都有過許多的討論那尤其近幾年我們也知道爆量的這種詐騙案件幾乎淹沒了整個司法體系不管是這個檢警還是法官都在海量的這種案件中咬牙苦撐"},{"start":12204.255,"end":12218.813,"text":"那我想請教聽長就是司法院對於這種這一次發生的事情我們有沒有進行相關的檢討是的跟委員報告那其實司法院在這個昨天也就是17號有召開過檢討會議那關於這個"},{"start":12223.991,"end":12229.033,"text":"一、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":12251.503,"end":12268.311,"text":"而然後持續來推動防度濫訴等等那都是我們可以立即採取的一些的具體的改善的措施那同時那也希望各界能夠關注這個議題然後投入更多的資源給司法"},{"start":12269.691,"end":12290.142,"text":"給司法部門,那因為我們受制於這個中央政府機關總原額法的限制,我們的原額即將用盡。那我想其實是適量大量的人力投入司法,那對於緩解法官的壓力是有助益的,謝謝。好,我希望我們能夠提出具體能夠解決這個問題的辦法跟規劃。"},{"start":12293.663,"end":12307.168,"text":"讓實際在這個基層從事這些工作的法官能夠感受到這個壓力的減輕。那我想問題還是不斷的惡化當中,所以刻不容緩一定要馬上去做這個事情的解決。"},{"start":12308.308,"end":12324.03,"text":"那不論是人力資源的補充或是判決書類的這個簡化那有好的措施就應該要盡快提出來解救司法官在水深火熱之中的這種工作情況而過勞的問題當然不只是存在法官"},{"start":12324.751,"end":12340.084,"text":"那檢察官也是這部分也請我們法務部是不是也同步積極來檢討和規劃這個再請我們次長協助幫忙並且要深入瞭解第一線司法人員的這個實際情況避免只上談兵"},{"start":12341.138,"end":12360.685,"text":"那另外對於這件事情我們這個許中立院長日前走訪士林地院的時候也提醒法官要注意身心多參加一些戶外的活動那不要整天都綁在辦公室裡面被法官們認為是一番沒有溫度沒有距離的基層遙遠的這種言論但我們也看到"},{"start":12364.373,"end":12381.913,"text":"有臺中地院的公告說讓全院同仁公駕半天去參觀展覽希望能夠放鬆一下心情我想請問司法院對於這部分有沒有相關的指引讓各地的法院都能"},{"start":12384.383,"end":12413.986,"text":"能參照來落實許中立院長的建議,多照顧法官的身心。」有沒有?報告委員,我想這一部分其實大概不需要司法院的指引,目前我們沒有指引,但是其實這都是各法院院長就自動的這樣子來做,就像委員剛才舉例的台中地院,那其實士林地院也有類似的,院長他們法院也有類似的措施,就是鼓勵法官們有半天的工假可以出去"},{"start":12414.597,"end":12416.399,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":12442.681,"end":12465.485,"text":"的情形甚至在這個未還這個委員會的天花板還有燈條也整組都掉下來那我想請教祕書長在地震這個兩個禮拜後相關的這個災損都已經檢查完了那也修繕完畢了嗎好好聽長您先回座"},{"start":12469.495,"end":12489.667,"text":"報告委員那因為地震發生的時候我們第一時間已經通知廠商那也在那個連假時間的前兩天就已經絕大多數做成修復那就後續有一些小狀況再做一點整理以上報告好都已經在處理了嗎是好那我想請教祕書長就是在4月1號"},{"start":12493.909,"end":12515.789,"text":"事業一號我曾經質詢過,那是在地震前那我針對我們這個國會擴建的相關期程當時這個秘書長回應是說總務處還在研擬當中也會向韓院長報告那在這個地震發生之後那到現在我想請教說秘書長您已經向韓院長報告和討論過這個事情了沒?"},{"start":12518.923,"end":12540.714,"text":"簽卷我上次跟陳委員報告過總務處他研議後才會跟韓院長報告是不是要經過黨團協商成立的一個情形我們現在部長已經在研議在整個過程大概要多久的時間我當時是有跟我提是六個月內"},{"start":12541.975,"end":12542.135,"text":"六個月"},{"start":12557.773,"end":12571.932,"text":"嚴厲的過程也還沒完成,那也還沒跟韓院長報告這件事情嗎?針對這個還沒有跟,院長報告是上次有一個公督門,院長只是我跟他們接見的時候曾經有針對這個跟他報告過一次。"},{"start":12574.715,"end":12596.287,"text":"本席會不斷的追蹤這個國會擴建的議題是希望說在整個國會改革的這個討論當中能夠關注到硬體的這一塊我們不是只有這些條文方面我們硬體方面應該要納入去一併討論除了上述保障的這些意識運作維持這個意識的品質以外"},{"start":12596.827,"end":12612.72,"text":"也是為了要提升進行國會外交史的一個格局甚至目前我們立法院內還有許多的地方都可能還是違建的問題也是要透過我們這個國會的這個擴建或是簽建才有辦法解決應該是這樣子吧"},{"start":12614.341,"end":12638.532,"text":"所以我希望說這個部分秘書長跟我們處長應該要積極來辦理。不要說六個月啦,應該要縮短七成。因為這個已經討論那麼久了,為什麼還要再六個月時間?我相信內部應該都有一個想法了。上一次秘書長您也大概有講,六個點應該也都有一個這個主要的一個想法。所以我希望說應該是要加緊腳步啦。刻不容緩請秘書長跟處長這個盡快辦理。好,以上。"},{"start":12644.858,"end":12649.903,"text":"好謝謝陳委員的質詢謝謝我們有請下一位是審法會委員主席我們有請周秘書長好秘書長請"},{"start":12672.832,"end":12688.97,"text":"鐘秘書長早現在已經午安了鐘秘書長在立法院服務多久我當考試委員之前是38年兩個月現在來了大概有兩個多月"},{"start":12691.504,"end":12706.861,"text":"我自己我1992年那時候我們正好國會全面改選第二屆立法院的時候那時候我就在這邊當助理我大學剛畢業來這邊當助理我印象中那時候"},{"start":12707.682,"end":12709.643,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":12729.977,"end":12740.594,"text":"已經第十一屆了我們這也第十一屆了嘛齁這個州民黨可以說整個都看到這整個立法院變化的過程事實上所謂的國會改革"},{"start":12742.063,"end":12769.786,"text":"並不是說我們今天開始在國會改革事實上從1992年在第一屆國會那時候萬年國會不用改選那個時候是幾乎是毫無制度了那這個92年之後自從這個立法院定期改選之後這個我們在立法院整個規則幾乎每一屆都在做一些改變跟改革嘛對不對是不是"},{"start":12770.842,"end":12799.001,"text":"應該這樣講,因為在81年的時候是還有改選的82年尤其是第二屆開始全面改選那中間當然有多次的為了立法院的內規在外界所談的就是88年那個無法就第四屆進來的那個無法那其實在政黨輪替以後第四屆的時候又大幅的改變其實在整個過程的整個過程包括我記得那時候1992年"},{"start":12801.002,"end":12806.907,"text":"改選93年你剛講民國八十二年就1993年開始就職對那時候我那時候進來"},{"start":12809.668,"end":12830.855,"text":"我記得那時候根本還沒有什麼草野協商制度法制化都還沒有就純粹都是這樣一步一步這樣子改革過來所以其實我要講的就是這樣子其實我們現在說大張旗鼓說國會改革國會改革法案其實一點都不新鮮因為在這整個從1993年到現在整個過程"},{"start":12835.595,"end":12859.674,"text":"大概我們立法院針對我們運作上面我們大家有發生漢革或者是有爭議之後我們大家就會經過朝野大家共同來解決新的辦法所以我在講說這一次我們大家在這段時間所看到的這些相關的這些國會的立法國會制度的一些改變的立法它其實就是這樣的過程裡面的一環那我看到"},{"start":12861.452,"end":12888.458,"text":"每一個政黨每一個政黨的版本。我們在禮拜一也在這邊上演了一齣民進黨從頭做到尾在旁邊看到尾也上了一齣我個人認為程序上面很有瑕疵的一個審查會我們看到其實國會這次大家所提出來各個黨派所提出來的法案裡面其實都有各種不一樣的面向"},{"start":12889.588,"end":12898.392,"text":"那我比較遺憾的就是說我們看到在禮拜一我們看到的我們所通過的這些其實基本上都是立法基本上都是立法權的擴張"},{"start":12900.149,"end":12926.044,"text":"這是立法院職權的擴張的相關法條。包括要把總統國情報告常態化、質詢化、人事同意權及命令權的追認、總統彈劾的相關質詢,還有質詢的規範要讓立法院可以移送行政官員,立法權可以移送行政權,到讓司法權來裁判。"},{"start":12927.456,"end":12953.234,"text":"這是三權分立的一個新的理論另外還有立法院政府院長選舉甚至還有刑法的藐視國會罪等相關的立法所以我看到這些都是立法權的擴張但其實國會改革的面向由我們民進黨團所提出來這次整套的國會改革的法案其實不只是"},{"start":12955.996,"end":12970.374,"text":"立法院職權行使法這樣子一個部分而已。事實上我們還有再提出一些包括這個強化秘密會議的規範這個也是社會關注的在之前社會非常關注在立法院所召開的秘密會議它到底秘不秘密"},{"start":12971.215,"end":12985.653,"text":"他這個秘密會議的結果他到底到底這個這個我們立法委員自己有沒有辦法保守這個這個保密的義務那另外包括這個強我們跟秘書長可能最有關的我們強化國會的知通知通安全"},{"start":12986.434,"end":12987.255,"text":"之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":13004.568,"end":13025.962,"text":"再來就是強化幕僚單位提升專業能量這些如果我們民進黨這些改革方案能夠這樣照民進黨版本通過我相信未來我們秘書長在立法院整個我們立法院的職能都可以大幅的提升那另外還有這個這個也就是說除了國會改革其實除了國會擴權以外還有一個很重要的變相是國會的自律"},{"start":13027.063,"end":13043.66,"text":"國會的自律就包括我剛剛所講的這個國會自己的這個這個秘密會議規範我們國會的這個這個知通安全的強化更重要的包括我們這個國會自主的這些這些性平反對性平歧視的這些相關的規範那還有這個這個其他"},{"start":13046.022,"end":13072.615,"text":"涉及犯罪若國會議員涉及犯罪之後的這個這個相關司法移送的這樣子的的屬於國會自律面向的部分那這部分我覺得覺得說說在我們這個禮拜一這樣開快車的過程中整個國會改革會被扭曲成是國會自己的擴權就只有看到國會擴權的面向這是我個人是深感遺憾深感遺憾那這個"},{"start":13074.624,"end":13099.885,"text":"這個部分我想要請秘書長來表示目前我們立法院有關這個資通安全的部分我們有做什麼樣的強化因為本來現在資通安全的資安長就是副秘書長民進黨所提的版面我也都拜讀過了在裡面將來要設也是一樣有副秘書長"},{"start":13100.566,"end":13105.607,"text":"之四條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條"},{"start":13129.773,"end":13143.07,"text":"立法院職權行使法的部分都比較具政治性就是說不同的政黨有不同的看法但是在下個禮拜我們民進黨所提出的這個國會改革的版本這個就真的是針對我們國會國會的自律以及國會這個這個"},{"start":13146.033,"end":13174.334,"text":"專業資安方面的提升。」這個部分我想秘書長就應該要可以嚴所當嚴了就不必像現在在這裡說全部都不必評論了那時候你就要好好的來評論我們有關這些相關的法案這樣好不好我會提一些看法包括法治局預算中心的用聘用還是因為聘用就會涉及到聘用聯盟可能是要轉為要用聘任的方式來"},{"start":13175.034,"end":13181.939,"text":"但是我們有一些看法,我們有一些看法。好,我知道了。好,謝謝秘書長。謝謝周秘書長,謝謝沈委員。接下來有請謝委員、榮介詢答。欸,主席我請閉嘴掉。"},{"start":13204.76,"end":13233.108,"text":"市委員好市長你好這改革啊是大家都很介意大家都很想要做的一件事合理說改革就是要說自己好的嘛賣花要說花紅啊賣茶要說茶香啊對不對啊不是啊讓你們在這裡漏氣啊"},{"start":13234.073,"end":13237.914,"text":"啊看啊,你被這樣互相漏氣,啊不一定會進步啦。誰會說你的1990年你說什麼,什麼人說什麼,誰會說你的1991年你說什麼,什麼人說什麼。本來的心事獨寫啦。事情本來就是時間沒感嘛。啊結果現在在這裡,咕嗅鼻沒味啊,鼻嗅咕臭皮。"},{"start":13262.674,"end":13267.216,"text":"而你們坐在那裡是看得到嗎?看得到嗎?在想不想你們都迷迷糊糊。我個人是這樣說,為什麼大家會提出這個改革的方案?要滿足社會的期待嘛。對不對?過去的七、八年來,就是立法院主謀嚴格。民間說,啊,立法院就不屬於是行政院的立法局啊。"},{"start":13292.451,"end":13304.398,"text":"處處之有白書嘛。那麼,要來面對,今天不是民進黨可以萬年執政,任何政黨都有可能可以執政。行政權的五萬,今天在做生意最好是有事無窮嘛,因為白書有人在喊嘛,有人在呼喊嘛。"},{"start":13322.065,"end":13330.047,"text":"此外剛好國會三黨無過半,不關上執政,這就是一個改革最好的契機啊。結果不是啊,民進黨要幹,國民黨也要幹,大家本來能好多少就要講啊。一味的配方沒辦法,你要去訴科說是怎麼做,今天你國民黨要吃緊急。"},{"start":13349.451,"end":13356.956,"text":"因為行政權的五萬,咱說咱的這寸就好啦。主席講三百,叫三百沒來叫官員在那等,這個衛民處在社會可以容忍嗎?你立法委員今天是沒人在跟你關課捏,所以會逼官員比較沒壓力。但是所有的官員嘛,會上班大家也壓力很大捏,法官也很大捏,檢察官也很大捏,大家都壓力啊。"},{"start":13377.868,"end":13384.491,"text":"結果來到這裡,你說你點點的、命點點的,你沒資訊,還要叫官員坐檔嗎?這個委員處理社會可以了解嗎?這本來就是大家要共同面對嘛。再來,行政權的五萬。今天,立法院今天在國民黨要選的,不是要扣款的,是要補款!過去的七百年,主謀嚴格!"},{"start":13408.456,"end":13410.037,"text":"違反委員做到不尊嚴!不對就不理你啦!我不用跟你講秀威嘛!對不對?詐騙集團今天為什麼會跟民進黨那些人在協助會?這跟民進黨本身無關的,因為他剛才在執政。今天我國民黨執政,這個詐騙集團就來跟國民黨協助會,為什麼?我想要做這個罪名!"},{"start":13434.918,"end":13438.602,"text":"出於社會一般人民的信賴﹑行詐騙執行﹑所以這個詐欺的這麼多就是因為行政權沒得到適度的監督﹑他可以來這裡亂講﹑甚至可以把你委婚這順﹑"},{"start":13455.68,"end":13464.527,"text":"我不用接受你的質問啊!我沒說實話啊!沒關係啊!這個詐騙集團為什麼要向這些人說很好啊!這沒關係啊!這越騙越多啊!也抓我們不中啊!你看看台版的檢普案破罪又破那麼輕了!那麼多檢察官抓那麼多人!以上那麼多、起訴那麼多!我掛暗戀比較認真啊!用到沒那麼多就詐騙了!一雞獨待啊!"},{"start":13485.279,"end":13490.323,"text":"所以這個改革啊,就是說,要不然你扯我,我扯你。真不實在面對嘛。過去,若不是這種的形態,就沒有這個超機能的案嘛。這個超機能,不想跟你講實話,機能對賭賣你也要問?一顆玫瑰褲你也要問?對不對?這個過端的疫苗,"},{"start":13513.7,"end":13519.744,"text":"五、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":13544.36,"end":13549.924,"text":"條文權、條責權都可以討論,它是有必然性的嘛。不去輕鬆說我今天提到條責權,不需要立法院委員大家大到三都選不下,沒那麼大啦。沒那麼大啦。有很多可以給我們規範的啦。你不要接受規範,規範你不會在最好人民也可以用選票給你借財的。"},{"start":13574.966,"end":13589.332,"text":"所以沒有那個就沒有壓力了啦。在這裡是要要求行政、立法、司法、議席之間大家盡量平靜而已啦。三年沒過半天這個機會,總統也已經表達,總統鄧小林剛好很客氣,他也表達他願意來立法院報告。"},{"start":13601.816,"end":13605.882,"text":"這就是可以建立憲情慣例的很好的時間第一"},{"start":13609.107,"end":13632.913,"text":"一文一答、接文接答、通文通答﹐那才是規矩順。黨團合相嘛、政黨合相嘛、政黨合相主連理連。當然我個人的看法啦齁,對元首啊、給他適度的內容,這合理啊。若請問今天做市長我是不會當法院的啦,對嗎?我問你,你問我。"},{"start":13634.926,"end":13638.428,"text":"議員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":13656.397,"end":13661.938,"text":"立法院：沒有那個說法規範：鄉長他若來報告還要求總統來報告：立法院若報告接受這個業務嗎?沒有問題啦!對不對!這很簡單的事情!鄉長作為都可以承受!總統董三林若願意來報告!"},{"start":13679.432,"end":13685.182,"text":"這有什麼可以爭取的?所以三黨這個時候就是應該在建立憲政管理最好的時機,失去這個機會了,對啦。是這次在法院會變成最大的危險。"},{"start":13694.127,"end":13704.171,"text":"我們應該在這般的將來這個三黨無過半,總統好選人若願意表達安捏,立法院的行政庭是可以滿足這個會議的進行,各司法格的進行。所以應該要接受國民黨所提出來的這。那麼民進黨有意見,沒關係,我們來政黨合相的時候,大家充分的溝通。"},{"start":13721.758,"end":13723.68,"text":"謝謝我們謝委員謝謝祕書長接下來有請吳釗偉中線委員詢答麻煩祕書長有請周祕書長"},{"start":13742.062,"end":13765.033,"text":"委員好秘書長好我想請教一下秘書長我先提一下我想國會調查權它的一個理念其實我們在法律上面也可以看到有相類似的理念比如說政府資訊公開法或檔案法這些東西其實它主要實現的就是人民資的權利所以我覺得國會調查權因為國會的這些議員都是"},{"start":13769.855,"end":13788.89,"text":"人民選出來的。他一樣是在實踐人民對於知的一個權利。所以我想請教一下秘書長對於大法官皆是以調查權然後獲取資訊能夠讓國會善盡民意機關的職責那秘書長是否同意憲法賦予立法院的這個職責?"},{"start":13790.111,"end":13790.131,"text":"案。"},{"start":13806.151,"end":13826.001,"text":"錯誤的解讀秘書長的說法。」所以我想說秘書長這邊其實說得非常清楚那我們對於法律的見解我想說我大概的想法跟秘書長也是類似所以那個記者的報導可能有所誤解那我想請教一下那依據我們剛剛所說的那國會制定調查權這是違憲嗎?"},{"start":13828.932,"end":13856.749,"text":"從五八五一路這樣推下因為本來立法院的調查權跟委員報告過五八五號解釋本來是賦予我們這個普世性的權利嘛那在已經很明確的在解釋文裡面寫得很清楚了是 謝謝秘書長好 那我想請教一下那你知不知道為什麼憲法賦予這個國會的這個調查權這個權利我們一直急著要把它法制化秘書長知道原因嗎"},{"start":13858.55,"end":13886.077,"text":"其實我上次也說過因為我們現行的職權行使法本來就不足嘛所以因為當時我88年在處理的時候是只有3號號解釋只有文件調閱那58號號解釋是1993年才有的所以必須要去補強所以國衛的內內規這個職權行使法在補強的時候調壓前這一章裡面本來就需要稍微再修正啦"},{"start":13886.517,"end":13910.606,"text":"我上次也說過我想我們把一個憲法上面的權利我們把它法制化中間有一個很重要的原因就是因為我們要把它的行使的要件把它明文對不對因為我國是成文法國家我們把它明文下來讓政府讓這些立法委員在質詢的時候他有所依詢嘛那另外還有一個就是"},{"start":13911.775,"end":13926.767,"text":"如果你沒有一個法制化的話很容易在運作的時候就造成侵害人民權利甚至洩漏國家機密的風險所以這就是我們為什麼急著把它法制化的一個非常重要的原因"},{"start":13928.666,"end":13948.416,"text":"我來談一下就是說其實最近有很多人有很多委員一直講嘛哇你這個調查權這個什麼出來之後或者是你的對於這個國會國會對於這些受調查者的一些請他來說明或者是一些處罰他說這是老民啊什麼但是我在這邊跟各位報告"},{"start":13949.932,"end":13974.323,"text":"其實三權分立國家他們的國會也常常有很多東西是要去詢問到一般民間機關但是他是有個前提他絕對不是說亂七八糟想叫你來就來他一定是調查的事項是涉及到公共利益而且跟國會的職權有關聯性的時候才會做這件事情所以"},{"start":13975.003,"end":13997.428,"text":"很多時候是被帶風向,很多時候是危言聳聽,跟人民說哇那你家開麵店我就傳你過來國會這邊處罰,沒有這種事情啦。那你說華航,假設華航今天那個飛機沒有保養好,發生一些事故,我們請他來說明,這種跟公共利益有重大關聯性,這個才有可能。"},{"start":13997.768,"end":14012.608,"text":"例如美國國會常常找波音公司去問為什麼沒有人說他們那個叫擾民我想說這個部分我想剛剛把它解釋說明一下這是怎麼回事另外就是我覺得"},{"start":14014.519,"end":14042.998,"text":"當我們在行使這個調查權的時候比如說我的版本以及黨團的版本其實都非常的寫得很清楚就是有關調查權的行使我們是會那個準用到行政程序法以及行事訴訟法其實為什麼我當時在寫法案的時候我會特別要求這個因為我自己本身是很重視程序正義我要求國會在做調查的時候在做懲罰的時候"},{"start":14044.72,"end":14063.195,"text":"不能夠置以妄為,不能擴權,所以一切要依照,要準用相關的程序法,這樣子才能保障人民的權利,也讓人民有救濟的管道。」這就是為什麼我的版本一直堅持說有一些東西要準用相關的程序法,也就是說在"},{"start":14063.916,"end":14067.418,"text":"議員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":14083.627,"end":14085.268,"text":"一、民進黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":14108.226,"end":14124.068,"text":"關於機密外洩的問題,我們剛剛有講到說立法院職權行使的時候也是要保障讓機密不能外洩。你知不知道就是就我們立法院職權行使法還有國家機密保障法都有規範到這個部分。"},{"start":14125.47,"end":14152.182,"text":"例如說4至729號他有提到當立法院進行文件調閱的時候對於包含工商秘密的部分其實立法委員他有進到這個保密的義務這個在729號也寫得非常清楚也就是說729號其實他在你符合法定程序之下進到這些保密義務之下其實你去調閱這些私人的工商秘密這個是合憲的"},{"start":14152.782,"end":14178.336,"text":"我想大家可以去閱讀729號我想729號跟585號我們在這邊多次的攻防但我要跟各位報告法律的閱讀判決判例的閱讀我從學生時代到現在我就知道一個點不能只截一段來看必須整篇把它看完不能只截頭來看尾部看所以上次行政院副秘書長來這裡我為什麼發脾氣因為他在胡說八道"},{"start":14179.376,"end":14207.055,"text":"他亂解485號所以那次我很不高興我認為行政院的高官來這裡不能講那種話你要是說不懂的人來講就算了高官來這裡亂講話帶風向這個我不太能接受這也是國之不信啊走到那個位置的人卻胡說八道這真的不應該尤其行政本來要維持中立他不能玩政治他應該要持平的說如果你今天你依照585號去講我沒有意見但是你不能亂解485號"},{"start":14209.52,"end":14209.741,"text":"那那個"},{"start":14211.345,"end":14238.478,"text":"我想我最後我可能講一個東西也幫大家示意因為今天有直播我示意幾個東西第一個我想柯總召他前幾天有講一句話叫做總統會被抓去關我想第一個我們念過憲法的人一定知道我不是迴憲亂政憲法五十二條非常清楚總統有刑事獲免權"},{"start":14239.298,"end":14248.618,"text":"所以絕對不會發生總統在那邊被問一問抓去關的事情所以不要亂帶風向憲法五十二條再來第二個"},{"start":14250.287,"end":14274.328,"text":"有關我們藐視國會罪,其實這個適用上面也跟總統的關聯性沒有那麼大。比如說我的版本,總統他來國情報告他是基於憲政的秩序,跟質詢行政院的規範不同,跟聽證調查權的規範也不同,所以不會發生那種什麼總統來問一問被抓去關這個事情。"},{"start":14275.329,"end":14293.402,"text":"這崩馬牛不相及啊不能混在一起講所以我認為是這樣啦每一位我上次有講每一位立委先進我在這邊政治之力是最淺的每一位立委先進我都很敬佩每一個立委都是他的家族他的父母眼中的驕傲但是來這裡我認為不能亂帶風向"},{"start":14296.104,"end":14312.034,"text":"今天這個法案這個法律規範即使跟國民黨的邏輯不同我也不敢隨便亂講這是我的堅持所以我對於法律的解釋對於釋制的解釋我不會挑有力的來講我一定是持平看完之後該怎麼說就怎麼說就像"},{"start":14312.674,"end":14316.935,"text":"我對於柯總召說總統被抓去關這個,我也覺得這個是亂帶風向。因為憲法明定總統有刑事獲免權。"},{"start":14338.479,"end":14362.871,"text":"再來我們說的行政院的這些我們對於行政權的這些監督這些聽證調查權跟總統也無關所以不存在總統抓去關這件事情我在這邊要特別說明我一切依法論法任何人都可以挑戰我的想法好那謝謝在這邊謝謝剛剛把這些我對於這個國會改革的一些想法提出來謝謝各位"},{"start":14365.499,"end":14379.729,"text":"好,謝謝吳釗緯的諮詢。我非常認同吳釗緯的說法。我也觀察到您有很多並沒有連署國民黨的提案。那希望在逐條審查的過程你可以捍衛您法律人的專業。那違憲的條文就是不要支持。我支持你。好,我們現在休息。"},{"start":15168.015,"end":15187.337,"text":"好,現在宣布繼續開會那現在有請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員質詢不在有請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在有請張家俊委員張家俊委員張家俊委員不在有請鄭振前委員鄭振前委員鄭振前委員不在"},{"start":15187.998,"end":15201.345,"text":"有請謝依鳳委員、謝依鳳委員、謝依鳳委員不在場。有請邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在場。有請徐欣盈、徐欣盈、徐欣盈委員不在場。好,有請鐘嘉斌交委諮詢。"},{"start":15208.055,"end":15219.507,"text":"主席﹐在場的委員先進﹐列席求證五千萬首長﹐官員會長﹐公眾夥伴﹐媒體記者女士先生﹐有請我們今天最忙的周秘書長﹐還有第二忙的陳次長﹐"},{"start":15220.336,"end":15222.418,"text":"國會如果審查機制失靈,倉促修法會獻名於罪,而且會造成媒體噤聲,企業屈服。"},{"start":15242.077,"end":15261.086,"text":"我們翁委員版的刑法140之一已經出委員會了。他這裡面說條文內容就這麼多,其他藐視國會之行為處三年以下有其徒刑。請問周秘書長,經過本週一的逐條審查,你認為翁委員版本的其他藐視國會行為是哪些行為?你想得到的?"},{"start":15267.33,"end":15285.417,"text":"那你覺得這樣的一個描述用八個字其他描述國會行為有沒有符合罪行法定原則在一個刑法140之一的條文修法的法案當中用這樣的文字描述有沒有符合這樣的罪行法定原則"},{"start":15286.499,"end":15306.462,"text":"很困難思考一下,次長你覺得呢?依照您在法律上的認知的見解。基本上既處罰明確性言者的話,盡量不要用不確定的法律概念。那這幾個字呢,在目前文字上看起來是不確定的法律概念。好,謝謝我知道次長會答,因為您的報告就是這樣寫。"},{"start":15308.343,"end":15330.229,"text":"那可是這樣的一個條文已經送出委員會了那會有什麼問題呢我們來看一下接下來同樣公務員的版本立法院職權行使法第45條還沒有出委員會喔就是今天要審的喔他說立法院呢經院會決議得設調查委員會委員會決議設調查專案小組要求特定的機關"},{"start":15331.909,"end":15358.43,"text":"法人、人民團體及個人聽證並提供文件資料及檔案。請問一下,秘書長你在看資料還是我問次長好了。這裡的法人有沒有包括公司、學校、醫院?法人的話包括公司法人。那機關有沒有包括獨立機關?包括公平會?都包括在內。人民團體有沒有包括一般的賞鳥協會?"},{"start":15360.712,"end":15365.682,"text":"個人有沒有包含公民記者?包括好所以說"},{"start":15366.892,"end":15394.406,"text":"一旦這個條文在今天大家的意見、傾向要把它完成那它會跟翁委員同樣以作委員會的刑法140之一的版本相扣連只要這兩個條文一起通過未來在我們本國不管你是行政機關還是獨立機關不管你是公司法人、財團法人、社團法人你是醫院、你是學校、你是廟室、你寺廟、你是長鳥協會、你是公民記者你都有義務來"},{"start":15396.568,"end":15408.803,"text":"應立法院要求聽證而聽證的時候你就是接受質詢拒絕提供資料要處三年以下有期徒刑請問秘書長你覺得這兩條這樣子一起看您覺得有問題嗎?"},{"start":15411.84,"end":15431.363,"text":"因為你在調查說要在五八五號他一定有一個調查我只說我沒有說因為五八五號大概太多了條文現在看起來設計這兩個併在一起很可怕我問莊秘書長如果有立委幫婆婆喬貸款不成可以要求來應要來聽證提供資料如果拒絕還要判刑你覺得有這樣的情況會發生嗎"},{"start":15432.932,"end":15460.078,"text":"因為這一個跟莊委員報告他應該不管是院會或委員會他成立調查委員會調查小組他一定是合意的不會他個人的一個因素當然合意立法院我們合意機關都是有一個合意的過程但是我們也看到很多合意的過程結果這樣的極端情況有可能發生會讓貸款銀行不知道如何是好我們往下看"},{"start":15461.701,"end":15488.528,"text":"接下來我們看到這是楊瓊英委員的版本已經出委員會了在本週一所以讓我們保留他說各委員會為了審查閱會交付制議案得依憲法第67條第二項規定舉行公聽會邀請政府人員及社會上有關係的人員來出席陳述證言表示意見或提供相關的資料如果出席人員非有正當理由不得拒絕出席看起來沒什麼對不對"},{"start":15489.668,"end":15502.922,"text":"但是社會上有關係的人員有沒有包括我剛剛說的醫院、學校、媒體、新聞機構、公民記者、廟室負責人還有商鳥協會的代表有沒有"},{"start":15503.973,"end":15531.053,"text":"有關係之人可以報告這些。次長你覺得呢?有關係之人很廣啊有沒有名諜排除?就文字上來講是全部包含在內啦那還規定不得拒絕出席喔那我們來看一下回到翁委員的版本已經出委員會的無故缺席啊要處三年以下的有期徒刑啊無故有沒有正當理由說到無故請問無故缺席跟非有正當理由不得拒絕出席兩個意思一不一樣請問次長"},{"start":15540.613,"end":15558.147,"text":"五、八、五號解釋是說邀請人民可以參加調查是有,有這個權限但是法條設計上我們是建議委員們五、八、五號有說它是可以什麼滑環嘛那滑環是最後手段嗎是啊最後手段嘛那有多少刑責嗎在五、八、五號解釋沒有提到刑責的問題好來秘書長我請教一下"},{"start":15559.082,"end":15585.502,"text":"如果有委員強迫同僚要捐款,這個事情被寫成報導,不管是真是假,那可以傳喚記者出席嗎?如果要調查這個事情,有報紙媒體報導啊,說有立法院啊,有某黨黨團那個大碗要求同僚要捐款,質疑這個報導有問題,那要求聽證,要求調查,那傳喚這個記者來出席,"},{"start":15587.625,"end":15593.785,"text":"你覺得在假設這兩個條文通過配套,請問該記者有拒絕出席的權利嗎?"},{"start":15595.951,"end":15624.275,"text":"記者報導他本來就文到關有做解釋他有我部分他是他有報導他是有保護我們沒有我們就請他來才出席啊不是你來接受調查對有保護他的一個情況大概他他比如舉個例來講記者有報導他有名字吧那認為他這個有他因為本身在585號這一個解釋裡面是調查事項是報導這兩個是不能不不不一次的不一次的概念"},{"start":15625.289,"end":15642.19,"text":"調查事項就要調查有沒有這件事啊有沒有強迫同僚捐款啊請媒體來記者來說明一下你憑什麼寫這個報導啊可不可以拒絕呢拒絕要判三年以下有期徒刑啊秘書長、市長今天本席在這裡很沉重的要做這個話"},{"start":15643.464,"end":15670.239,"text":"其實立法院剛剛說到委員會中心主義在委員會進行類同性質法案的並案審查其目的就是要找出這些法條有沒有因為競合或是勾連所造成對人民權利的侵犯更不要我們從一開始就在說到585號的四字四字585號的要求或限制大家都很清楚但是現在由於星期一的委員會大體討論被剝奪逐條討論被沒收"},{"start":15673.464,"end":15702.571,"text":"其他委員其他政黨的版本包括他們自己同黨的版本也被封殺就會出現這樣的情況我們往下看另外我們再設想一個情況根據呂玉玲委員就是今天還沒有出委員會的版本她的立法院職權行使法第二十八條之四行政院長各部會首長及相關出席立法院會議之政府人員在接獲立法院邀請出席會議時未經會議主席准假有缺席者為藐視國會處一年以下有期徒刑"},{"start":15703.872,"end":15718.107,"text":"請問周秘書長,召委輪值主持會議,天天邀請行政院長出席,不但可以判刑,行政院還能運作嗎?有沒有國外的立法力?包括委員,因為行政院長不到委員會來,"},{"start":15721.065,"end":15743.764,"text":"那其他的部會首長就要囉,那就來每天來開會就不用來不用上班了最後最後因為時間關係我不要拖了最後就是我們在場副委員版本刑法14條之一已經出委員會了對於出席的這些人接受質詢的時候他如果虛位陳述三年以下有提出行請問次長你認為這裡居住的是包括前面說的機關"},{"start":15745.68,"end":15765.391,"text":"公司行號、公司法人、財團法人、學校、社團、醫院還是只限於行政機關?這裡面的主體是什麼?課與義務的主體是誰?對象是誰?如果就這樣條文的寫是包括全部啦。包括人民。但是所以我剛才前面說,之前我想說要正當程序,就是在程序上。好,那我們來看一下齁,同版本,怎麼不見了?"},{"start":15767.179,"end":15795.294,"text":"同版本的第一是一條之二,如果是行政院官員在立法院接受立委總質詢,總質詢,委員會質詢不算,反而是人民只要不來就有三年以下聽證程序,行政院官員要在總質詢的時候須謂不實處一年以下有期徒刑,請問民進黨你覺得這兩個條文對人民的刻以刑責重還是對行政官員刻著的刑責重?"},{"start":15799.79,"end":15827.91,"text":"很明顯嘛,一個三年以下,一個一年以下。次長,三年以下跟一年以下哪個重?是三年以下重。是啊,人民判得重啊,官員罰得少啊。就定是這些條文是要監督政府還是獻名於罪。我們請大家深思。以上謝謝。好,謝謝中召委,也謝謝次長及祕書長。好,接下來我們請翁曉琳委員詢答。不用。"},{"start":15829.358,"end":15830.383,"text":"發給書面接下來請賴氏寶委員詢答"},{"start":15836.049,"end":15860.397,"text":"啊對不起,要賴世保,賴世保委員,賴世保委員不在所以我們所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢,詢答結束那委員諮詢時呢,要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會好,那麼我們因為時間的關係我們先休息,那下午兩點半繼續開會"},{"start":21483.758,"end":21506.63,"text":"繼續開會,現在進行討論事項,那討論事項呢,審查民進黨黨團擬具、「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案等十案。那另外呢,討論法案時未立於審查討論,請主要列席機關的代表一致我們主席台正前方首長席的位置就座。"},{"start":21508.666,"end":21527.837,"text":"我們本案先進行大體討論每人發言時間八分鐘並自主席台前登記現在可以開始登記了大體討論後再進行逐條審查那麼上午有關於法務部報告書面部分已經送至委員會那請各位委員參閱並列入公報記錄"},{"start":21533.677,"end":21536.06,"text":"好,請在場委員先就大體討論發表意見,我們開始進行登記"},{"start":21547.229,"end":21547.67,"text":"等候議員議員議員"},{"start":21581.185,"end":21604.65,"text":"現在大體討論先請登記發言順位第一的柯委員見名請柯總召待會發言的時候我們兩邊的發言台都可以使用請大家就您習慣熟悉的位置"},{"start":21605.834,"end":21629.482,"text":"因為下午我們就是進行大體審查跟主條審查主席、各位委員同仁我認為站在這邊當然比較習慣我比較習慣正面看著副總召、看著國民黨委員早上發生一個插曲因為坐在那裡、站在那裡那黃國昌在我前面講話"},{"start":21631.274,"end":21654.235,"text":"他說大家要準所時間,時間到要停止,結果他也是也拖了一點時間。他說我執行時間針對我,我有一些指證,但是我要回答的時候他卻不在,很可惜。那我在執行的時候我曾經講過,我想就控制時間,不要怕他多嘴,但是我還要講剛才記者問我,"},{"start":21657.492,"end":21684.744,"text":"電視誤報,所以我實行到一半從來看不見,沒有那回事。是因為我得到黃斑,有黃斑的時候,因為黃斑有特徵就是看遠看不清楚,但是看近看很清楚。所以我不想站起來的時候,不想讓人家收賊,所以我會停下來問說時間到了嗎?這是先講。但是我要告訴各位,"},{"start":21685.796,"end":21712.173,"text":"防犯的病人我對防犯沒有錯看也看不清楚但看盡齁看法案是明察秋毫獨居肺炎十五個人版本的肺腺斷層部分一秒就得罩這是我現在自己新年出來因為一副防犯的另外我告訴各位因為我事實上你要去看一下CIA情報員的獨居室"},{"start":21714.597,"end":21736.223,"text":"因為這樣我訓練很獨心術,所以我委員局一個急動、一個笑、一瓶一笑,我黃國昌講話以氣大小、自恃,馬上知道阿表是想要什麼結果,是要給他黑眼睛還是待會要發動偷襲,還是要宣揮同意,這一點我先說明不要傻笑好不好,好,回歸正戰。"},{"start":21738.243,"end":21753.731,"text":"國有改革方案大家都知道我們希望在立法院裡面如果在委員會好好審查過去審查一年多但是有的不能用我們就沒有公司就會處理今天我們還是一樣同樣立場在看待這個事情"},{"start":21754.651,"end":21769.037,"text":"但是我很遺憾我們在最近從立法院二月二十號開議到今天我們看到整個國家的軸線都很傾斜的、都扭曲了這國家在福音旗迴旋戰爭之下、韓國章合作底下迴旋戰爭"},{"start":21770.458,"end":21793.756,"text":"莫此違憲。」莫此違憲不管修憲要修憲成績的東西搞成修法乃至於提特別條例特別法一個人又提了兩兆不勝為大所以這些都是違反違反憲法的所以大家要冷靜一下違憲的任何措施、幾項提案到最後這邊還是違憲"},{"start":21795.39,"end":21821.847,"text":"那今天我在這裡也要當早上有這個吳宗憲委員對我本人提出一些指證我早上在這個地方也講過有關於這次最重要是五八五事件結果二十年來立法院不敢修正我們這次真的面對五八五事件那其他的其實坦白講你這樣衍生出來藐視國會罪等等刑法疑似疑等等都是違憲的"},{"start":21823.188,"end":21851.027,"text":"因為吳鮑思說吳鮑思寫得很清楚,他就說可以處以法反的強制手段,就像法治那樣,不知道怎麼過啦。但是吳宗憲的版本是寫的和王中選是一樣,差不多。但是吳宗憲委員,你不要忘記,你連署官房黨本你都有連署。換句話說你是一個人,幾人挑一種心,對你是哪一個吳宗憲。"},{"start":21852.768,"end":21870.561,"text":"是和國民黨靠攏吳宗憲還是獨立行使職權吳宗憲當然是當問題出現的時候你馬上已經馬上效忠所以這個是我對吳宗憲委員的有點期待以及落差所以吳宗憲委員講說我委員爽聽"},{"start":21876.94,"end":21901.475,"text":"我說趙委員盤等連總統都要抓去關,沒有錯。但是呢我告訴各位,2012年的時候,九一二陣陣的時候,那個人事長這有影響嘛,我告滿一九。我們都知道總統在憲法上保障不受刑事訴求,那一年我告滿一九,黃世民等,包括江玉華,後來最後江玉華。"},{"start":21902.762,"end":21928.661,"text":"那人臺北市地研室檢察長叫...檢察長齁...呃...周...呃...檢察長...蕙玉文給我現在...對不起我差點忘記媽媽名字齁總統不受刑事訴求檢卸後...卸任以後另一行偵辦可不請馬英九卸任以後就起訴了我在懷疑你對上他齁所以我當然知道齁"},{"start":21930.862,"end":21943.129,"text":"這個總統不是除了刑事訴求,但是他總統一將呢?歐小英委員的版本刑法一十一,你們知道明明不是只有國會改革,還有刑法,還有婦人契業刑,也是國會罪。"},{"start":21946.471,"end":21963.457,"text":"而此前的審與稀有的陳述或提供的集結提供資料或藐視國會之前,刑法一時一時刪了以下。當然我都先沒有這樣提,但是我想有連署。"},{"start":21964.793,"end":21987.33,"text":"那問題來的版本也是如此就是說他當中另外就是說國會調查區調查區的所有稀有陳述都是三年以下有續居住刑或一科罰金三十萬這不是代表所有人都可能因為你行使國會這個特殊的權利國會特權主政特殊的權利違憲端正權利是分立的"},{"start":21988.251,"end":22008.949,"text":"檢察官扮演檢察官,法官扮演法官你這樣一下子把它寫出來,人家司法院不知道怎麼回答法務部不知道怎麼回答這不是毀憲亂真嗎?你還寫到行政院長總之有時候有攜尾陳述一年以下並易割法金什麼叫攜尾陳述?"},{"start":22013.911,"end":22025.331,"text":"所以這樣一個法院不寧願信而且脫逸整個法語學以及憲法規定這種版本咱們出了台的嗎?"},{"start":22026.943,"end":22039.17,"text":"然後反執行也有刑責各位今天我們在審查這個時候好不容易20年以後我們開始面對國會調查權的問題請各位不要恣意擴展違憲亂真歷史會幫你們編輸的好不好不要再笑了好謝謝柯總召的發言"},{"start":22055.322,"end":22055.922,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":22079.125,"end":22095.453,"text":"對啊,你們提四十次,我們提一次以後變差異,也不得已啊。羅志祥每次都要點名到我,讓我做一個稍微稍事澄清很簡單。禮拜一我們為什麼提稍微東西?因為你都幫我所有執行嘛。"},{"start":22097.706,"end":22116.277,"text":"這主條也不能這樣講,頂多給你大於討厭,國會委員的語氣,我都給你大於討厭你還怎麼不滿意所以呢,我們是要照程序來,因為你沒有照程序來,因為你要過去,所以當然我們反對,只有三個東西可以為之,那制止你的惡行"},{"start":22117.779,"end":22119.919,"text":"三、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":22145.782,"end":22171.021,"text":"三位都要忙處理啊 怎麼主席跑掉了主席怎麼見了 主席跑掉了書面啊 給書面啊 書面啊 提書面啊 怎麼這麼 先書面去講啦要馬上處理啊主席失蹤了總之好 今天要回來啊 忙處理"},{"start":22173.68,"end":22173.88,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":22200.47,"end":22203.933,"text":"三、委員呂玲等16人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文〉案。"},{"start":22228.117,"end":22228.517,"text":"各位國務黨委員"},{"start":22252.662,"end":22252.822,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":22270.044,"end":22284.793,"text":"總長你可不可以出去把主席找回來主席找回來主席讓我們大家休息一下我們價值是要主婦條討論主婦條審查好好談你們是要把它刪廢掉上次也是一樣"},{"start":22286.174,"end":22300.304,"text":"主席,我們的主席從頭到尾都做到了。所以,這個立法院不是今天才開始。第三位動議我沒有處理。這層議事處理程序的處理,每一個人待會有他的權利。但是呢,從這裡突然出國民黨煩惱之處。你跟韓永利買一些禮物送給臺灣。"},{"start":22729.426,"end":22748.192,"text":"我們今天這司法委員會誕生了一位神盾局局長神盾了我們尊重尊敬他尊敬的神盾局局長一看到三會動議就神盾了這種是不是也是一種主席濫權"},{"start":22757.366,"end":22785.445,"text":"對,然後也沒有宣布說休息時間是多久,然後自己跑去休息所以我們可能應該要發起一個那個譴責主席的案子不能用譴責,要送紀律委員會對,那所以我們要選個代主席出來這樣,我們這邊來現場人數來選一個代主席,我公推我們的柯總召說代主席吧,因為我們現在也不知道那個我們的神盾局局長跑去哪裡了去"},{"start":22786.626,"end":22806.313,"text":"一具立法院議事規則第二十五條會議進行中主席得卓財時間宣告休息這是依照議事規則是在卓財時間必須要明定它是什麼時間為什麼什麼叫卓財你的解釋好像是奇怪真是違憲亂證這何來違憲 你要瞭解那個陳羅志強委員又Cue到我說不出來說不出來"},{"start":22816.06,"end":22822.563,"text":"總召問一下,我們的會議外詢問,我們神盾局局長、宗家兵主席大概要神盾到什麼時候回來?"},{"start":22838.82,"end":22842.881,"text":"委員呂玉玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文．立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":22869.731,"end":22886.764,"text":"國會改革方案,結果國民黨要喊散會,那何許可惜啊?不會啦,你們都喊四十次散會動議,我們喊一次而已。四十次都是合法合憲,一次也不會過分。價值意義完全不一樣,你是阻礙會議進行,你現在還是要阻礙會議進行,不讓我們進行討論嘛。"},{"start":22890.177,"end":22895.419,"text":"你們的省頓局局長不見。 44次幫助會議進行。 44次幫助會議進行。然後省頓局局長不見也是幫助會議進行。總理大廳要來了,叫我跟大家勉勵一番啦。"},{"start":22914.585,"end":22937.109,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文〉案〈立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文〉案〈立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文〉案〈立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文〉案〈立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文〉案〉"},{"start":22944.642,"end":22968.697,"text":"那2012時任北檢檢察長,你應該知道,叫楊志宜。他合互當過司長,司長。他北檢檢察長做了2014,然後他在現在在台高檢,高雄檢,高雄檢,高雄當檢察長。當年他就是這樣,我告白以久。"},{"start":22970.205,"end":22998.939,"text":"兼聽國會,操作政治,讓黃世民的豪洩一氣,違法違憲,捍衛政治體制,終結特務治國。」所以一告的時候,梁昌世議前一張,他真的很厲害,他把他發一張文給我,說總統不受席日訴求,等卸任以後再進行偵辦,就是如此啦。所以我們今天要談的就是說,為什麼歐小英委員的提案,"},{"start":23000.2,"end":23017.935,"text":"刑法一百四十條,你現在你們現在是除了國會改革以外,你引申在秒數國會最區,然後無限候選。可以凡是被執行的人,稀有的陳述,不拒絕提供資料,讓刑法請問這個有沒有違憲。我報事是這樣的嗎?"},{"start":23021.845,"end":23049.816,"text":"可總知道這沒有違憲啦其他國家也都這麼做啦其他國家憲政體制不一樣你講哪一個國家我們有什麼不一樣憲政體制都還沒有憲法然後可以套用美國的嗎套用可以大法會嗎這憲法就洗在那裡好不好我是很不喜歡講這句話你先生本來就是大法官你先生就是大法官所以回家請假你先生就好這樣講我非常不好意思好不好我們從來不會"},{"start":23052.838,"end":23074.505,"text":"當時呢?那如果這樣做主條條文來討論啊,我覺得這樣討論才有意義啊,對不對?中委員,文委員如果你覺得說,那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?那為什麼你們不讓我們主條啊?"},{"start":23078.645,"end":23098.273,"text":"我心無寸我心無寸無弄無弄早上黃國昌講大好班47月9其實我再提一下時任的大好班陳先生大好班就是你先生我對於那個事件我解釋給大家聽"},{"start":23100.939,"end":23117.638,"text":"我為什麼在馬英雄九月二政經的時候九月八號馬英雄自己出來開記者會那是黃士平九月一號那是已經整個關於徵求完畢的案子他拿出來講拿出來講"},{"start":23122.022,"end":23143.338,"text":"那次呢,很抱歉,黃世民犯了什麼?犯了違反通信檢查保障法,犯了個資法,犯了洩密。他把審查中的資料,監聽到的東西拿出來開記者會。所以我告他,這三個,他到法院裡去的時候,他跟我爭辯,他說有,他有什麼?"},{"start":23144.859,"end":23169.648,"text":"操法各位主卻為了事由。」所以我說你這個案子,我告告檢察長,告告審判長。他既然這樣講,待會他自定有罪了。他沒有所謂的操法各位主卻為了事由。就是如此。第二次,整個甄決完畢以後才會發動決議要甄爭。那當然相關人員都不起訴。所以我要調什麼,要已經甄決完畢的"},{"start":23172.593,"end":23194.951,"text":"的資料。當然本來就可以調,但是那時候的大法官,包括陳孫生大法官,他轉個彎怎麼講呢?他說這個當然整體環境可以調,但整體環境調的時候會怕檢察官他整個周圍上面會受到影響,所以就寄給調。就是那時候的大法官,729四字。"},{"start":23196.451,"end":23206.752,"text":"因爲這樣嘛,因爲為事嘛,要調出來的時候,那你問他們所有通行記錄調出來這一項大白,馬英九跟黃世民天天在通電話"},{"start":23208.191,"end":23234.756,"text":"這就是161條條案是吧?而且他是為我掛線他我沒有關係他正常別人今天別人總之讓我報個實好不好報一句話報個實現在那個報告齁我們神頓局局長目前已經神隱二十分鐘我接下來就是每一段時間幫大家報告一下神頓局局長鍾嘉賓神隱二十分鐘"},{"start":23235.916,"end":23255.178,"text":"看到三位動議﹖立刻秒變神盾局局長桃獅夭夭﹖對﹖不見﹖完全不見蛋了﹖二十分鐘了﹖二十分鐘了﹖我們來看看我們神盾局局長可以神盾到什麼時候﹖沒有關係﹖你們開﹖你們40次三位動議﹖我們都幫你處理"},{"start":23257.04,"end":23278.696,"text":"看到上會動議一次立法院審斷局局長,佩服專家兵。看到上會動議立刻夾著尾巴就跑了。各位親民,你們也是大家都如此。你們協議人數多數,不讓進入職位審查。不怕你們版本受到嚴重挑戰,潰退國人。"},{"start":23285.641,"end":23305.556,"text":"現在是法學教育好不好等一下請請那個我們沈柏洋教授來跟你講這個法學教育可以嗎講教室就好不然大教室報告柯總現在休息時間我們就不要發言好不好合格也有事啊休息讓我們耳根清淨合格也有事好不好休息正好你再這樣單個不如像老一台車機當好不好"},{"start":23309.195,"end":23337.117,"text":"我們保證你愈編愈明。那叫主席回來啊。可以啊,我們來唸這個中旗。你們請省政局局長齁,起碼就是。那中主席也沒有比較大方啊。對啊,你們有吃水果,他也沒有請我們吃水果。"},{"start":23340.36,"end":23347.008,"text":"道歉,應該要讓那個總主席請啦,他自己去休息了,然後都沒有顧到我們。這種主席其實真的很不稱職。"},{"start":23369.13,"end":23393.941,"text":"我吃游泳啦,沒來輕鬆啦,該喝的就該喝。這吃民進黨的,給喝看啊。欸,天下沒有排斥午餐啊。你們也請我坐一下,我法學教育一下好不好。那後面的人每一個都快要拍手了,我這個法學教育不錯。憲法教學好不好。"},{"start":23397.082,"end":23416.195,"text":"各位,要面對歷史的一刻啦,逃避不是方法啦。逃避不是方法,這句話說得太好了,這是經典的詮釋啊。主席,我們現在不在位的主席,我們這首都要跟你喊話,逃避不是辦法,出來面對吧。"},{"start":23419.017,"end":23419.137,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":23440.06,"end":23466.011,"text":"我們都一直急著齁讓立法院的立法品質能夠增加所以不斷的趁機會讓法學教育一下好不好不是在那裡滑手機好不好要上台合作一次也可以啊立法品質的前提齁主席要在上面啦主席都不見了主席來你不要上會再跑了啊再跑啊這怎麼 這大家看得很清楚啦司馬莎是新人的傑之啊"},{"start":23468.232,"end":23484.657,"text":"主席就回來給大家看嘛你自己黃鼠狼當久了都不曉得自己長什麼樣子了我們剛剛省委員問了一個非常好的問題啊你看我們現在連會議詢問都不知道問誰了 對不對剛剛那個我們的省委員就會議詢問沒有人可以問啊 對不對"},{"start":23499.486,"end":23503.753,"text":"大法官在那你走錯了你應該去司法院不是來立法院"},{"start":23505.386,"end":23509.528,"text":"老柯我們決定支持你啦 真的"},{"start":23535.919,"end":23537.48,"text":"如果說柯總召願意推薦我我會欣然接受"},{"start":23635.419,"end":23639.567,"text":"這真的是長輩要喝的,乖!長輩都要喝精力糖"},{"start":23677.825,"end":23703.858,"text":"不過那個明天中午有那個白花運動就是大家在盡量支持就法官協會他們在串聯白花沒有就是就是之前士林的那個事情然後大家希望說能夠挺法官所以明天中午12點有一個白花運動對這是法官協會他們在做的對那有能力的話大家就多支持"},{"start":23705.376,"end":23706.298,"text":"各地院新聞有出來"},{"start":23761.175,"end":23761.597,"text":"不好意思。"},{"start":24082.711,"end":24107.601,"text":"好了好了我們的備用主席我們的召委吳宗憲代替一下好了主持節目主持節目對啊不行啦不行啦你如果立法院開天窗你如果說宗教拼字神證局長那吳宗憲就殺弱勢了他這個攤子一下人口少一半等下你一攤我們這個整個司法法制委員會全部滅頂了我看只滅一半而已啦"},{"start":24115.521,"end":24133.826,"text":"總召你兼主席好了啦請上座新海羅牌嗎?可以啦你各自解讀1920年到1922年啦世界上有一個偉大的總統"},{"start":24135.851,"end":24162.561,"text":"就印度總統甘地他兩次1930年做到1934年他在講什麼愛與和平非暴力我們就是不要議會衝突所以才採用這種非暴力愛與和平的手段我希望你們能夠喚醒你們號召你們的良心為什麼今天要如此這是愛與和平非暴力的"},{"start":24163.976,"end":24189.056,"text":"你們這樣抱怨我們就是以者抱怨因為洋中手段包括今天和禮拜一都是阻止人家去執行怕把版本講得太清楚又有人就傻笑請去了解一下甘地為什麼對事業造成重大影響"},{"start":24190.576,"end":24210.766,"text":"讓所有人都非常景仰他他是在那個事情裡面一個領導性的人物因為他倡導著這個說法所以他能夠留名萬世今天我不希望你們說到歷史的賓士"},{"start":24214.403,"end":24222.309,"text":"不讓人家審查法案,尤其是國會改革。這種行為就是描述國會,更應該改革。"},{"start":24250.558,"end":24267.951,"text":"而立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之四條文而立法院職權行使法部分條之四條文而立法院職權行使法部分條之四條文"},{"start":24281.314,"end":24292.833,"text":"秘書長,我們是不是之後應該要修立法院議事規則?像這種主席因故不能逝世的時候,我們是不是應該要改選主席?"},{"start":24294.093,"end":24294.253,"text":"因故不能試試。"},{"start":24311.583,"end":24330.558,"text":"法律用語啦!不要說我們的主席應顧不能事事,不太好啦!好不要啦!應事故啦!應事有!總統沒有改變的事由好不好!超過24小時再去派出所報案!現在還不用報案!我看我來演你一個...這個..."},{"start":24332.259,"end":24356.588,"text":"現在才多少?一個小時而已。他現在才失蹤一小時吧。好吧,就讓他繼續失蹤吧。超過二、四小時我們再協助報案好了。這個應該是..."},{"start":24363.766,"end":24370.376,"text":"就是濫用主席的職權然後耽誤這麼多官員的時間"},{"start":24550.002,"end":24575.058,"text":"協詢中委員快回來開會吧。我們的神盾局局長現在不見了哈。協詢一下。不錯啦,送你喝咖啡,你送他一個白牌子。"},{"start":24578.544,"end":24580.368,"text":"三、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":24761.573,"end":24786.327,"text":"董事長你要幹什麼?坐好坐好我講故事給你聽啦我講一個剛才講1920年20世紀的故事那講19世紀的故事給你聽好不好坐好啦各位1963年亞伯拉罕林肯"},{"start":24791.892,"end":24817.297,"text":"因為國家公園、國家墓園上講一段話,請各位要注意。八、七年前我們創設這個國家,這個國家是為了自由、民主、平等。對所有因為南北戰爭、喪失生命的人,我們都應該予以尊重。我希望美國能走向領有民智、民權的國家。"},{"start":24818.553,"end":24841.348,"text":"這是事實上一個非常有名的演講,只有三分鐘而已。請各位去google一下,用英文朗誦好不好?他會不會緊急在心?怎麼講?你去用英文朗誦一下。您肯的一個回答的演講。好不好?1863年了。"},{"start":24846.499,"end":24849.389,"text":"等下我再講20世紀的故事給你聽好不好"},{"start":24897.449,"end":24925.685,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬"},{"start":24931.601,"end":24931.682,"text":"之一條文"},{"start":26315.044,"end":26315.945,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":26331.663,"end":26358.134,"text":"對,我們都期待開會我們期待開會國民黨不要動輒就是想要讓主條不討論禮拜一的錯誤今天不能再重蹈覆轍好嗎這有時間擺拍為什麼不認真準備條文呢都準備好了那你們不要提散會動議啊對不對我沒有夭折他啦"},{"start":26387.403,"end":26393.571,"text":"好了有時間搞這種小孩子遊戲要不要認真來討論就不要提散會動議啊我們就來主條討論"},{"start":26395.285,"end":26399.79,"text":"三、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":26419.409,"end":26424.833,"text":"民進黨這麼認真意識的民進黨一聽到我們提散會動議立刻宣布休息已經省以一個小時又十三分省以一個小時又十三分所以我們的中加兵委員國民黨的陽謀就是不敢審法案"},{"start":26441.603,"end":26461.989,"text":"我們看清楚你們的計謀我們很擔心你啦摸高一尺道高一丈我們看清楚你們的計謀我們希望你們不要害怕審查好嗎不要害怕審查對羅志強喝口水你也知道講太多話會口渴我剛剛請你的咖啡可以喝一下感謝感謝我們這個無事要很認真準備但是我們宗嘉斌主席先回來開會吧感謝你啊"},{"start":26479.278,"end":26480.041,"text":"誒?真的啊?"},{"start":26571.712,"end":26571.834,"text":"一、民進黨團擬具"},{"start":26627.176,"end":26646.087,"text":"及第二十八條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條"},{"start":26673.759,"end":26675.5,"text":"對、對、對神盾局長就是要帥好不好"},{"start":26685.74,"end":26686.38,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":26709.575,"end":26736.953,"text":"之四條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條"},{"start":26746.761,"end":26771.298,"text":"之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條"},{"start":26780.197,"end":26798.345,"text":"而其次、委員呂玲等17人擬具、「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案。而其次、委員呂玲等17人擬具、「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":26804.496,"end":26822.05,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文"},{"start":26838.688,"end":26848.697,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":26865.269,"end":26887.299,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之二條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":26894.248,"end":26920.315,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":26936.344,"end":26955.519,"text":"五點半就自動開會因為今天的議程只到五點半他們也打算拖到五點半"},{"start":26985.475,"end":26993.439,"text":"一、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":27009.225,"end":27032.696,"text":"那請他提供照片我們再重做讓他帥一點總長你代理五分鐘就好了啦好不好總長你讓官員們先回去了不要中嘉賓一個人神盾你搞得好像我們全部都變神盾局的我在這裡帶領大家代導好不好"},{"start":27035.278,"end":27057.588,"text":"至強委員,上帝賦予你智慧,賜予你勇敢,賜予你正義感。你今天不要亂搞,好不好?副分級委員,你也是一樣,上帝正在看著你,上帝給你錢餅,可是你不能亂用。我們一起阿門。副分級委員在聽音樂,他用耳機,聽不到您的開示。"},{"start":27066.683,"end":27072.925,"text":"耳朵聽不見什麼?這個可能可以治療了,沒關係各位,再撐一下,至少到五點半"},{"start":27093.45,"end":27116.935,"text":"這樣的情況你們覺得對你們是好嗎?對鍾嘉斌蠻好的。他跑到去可以去拍那個神盾局的那個電影不錯。對他蠻好的。我剛剛跟你講過甘地的故事啊。不抵抗嘛。愛與和平啊。我們不用國會暴力的。"},{"start":27126.254,"end":27126.374,"text":"應經國會問政典範。"},{"start":27141.629,"end":27148.611,"text":"讓全國人民可以看到一個主席可以這樣濫用他的職權,耽誤大家的時間。"},{"start":27163.023,"end":27168.968,"text":"爛權的是你們國民黨。你們不敢討論依據議事規則二十五條主席之可以因為你們的要求不合理來才是修昔。你們不敢討論不敢逐條。"},{"start":27179.616,"end":27181.817,"text":"國民黨自己的版本就算了。你們為什麼有這樣子的權力要來干預民主進步黨的黨版的條文被審查呢?你們害怕你們的條文被檢視,民進黨不害怕,民進黨的版本我們有充足的信心也期待跟社會對話。"},{"start":27198.346,"end":27203.669,"text":"一、國民黨害怕國民黨版的條文被逐條審查。民進黨今天周四我們不會重蹈覆轍。我們大大方方開大門走大路讓我們的黨版接受社會的檢視。所以為什麼國民黨要其再會動議?你們沒有權利沒有資格。"},{"start":27221.639,"end":27223.822,"text":"來阻擾我們的法案依程序被審查。作為一個國會議員在這裡不敢就條文論條文,不敢逐條審查,不敢實質的去辯論。"},{"start":27237.142,"end":27244.824,"text":"我再次說,汪小林委員您多次要找無私要跟您辯論憲法,我們就在主角角落的,我們就在,那我們就在主,很好啊,太好了,那請,那請汪小林委員,你請你們的國民黨團,等一下不要提散會動議,不要提散會動議,我們要意識可以直接的進行,進行主角討論。"},{"start":27266.111,"end":27270.855,"text":"主條討論在委員會不用這樣私下在講這些嗆這些不要惱羞成怒我們保持尊重主條討論的變化才有意義哦"},{"start":27281.943,"end":27284.806,"text":"主條討論的辯論才有意義哦!你現在自己在那裡不斷地跳槍跳槍跳槍是沒有意義的!請讓主條討論被進行!請讓法案被審查!請讓主條討論可以被進行!依議事規則我們打"},{"start":27305.764,"end":27309.886,"text":"當好一場球賽,請上打手就打球,同手上同手球,好嗎?遵守賽制賽程,不要害怕揮棒落空,沒有關係,不要害怕揮棒落空,沒有關係,好不好?"},{"start":27323.712,"end":27330.874,"text":"討論法案綜合的長譯,這代委員會會改革末時委員會中心主義。星期一吳宗憲、張偉碩主持的議程就是沒有讓委員會中心主義被實踐。"},{"start":27341.937,"end":27345.401,"text":"經過我們的了解同意您就盡致的讓法案每一條都直接打包每一條都直接送協商這就是沒有讓委員會忠心主義被實踐"},{"start":27358.682,"end":27371.965,"text":"你們最喜歡學習的美國制度美國國會的制度委員會中心主義何其重要可是你們踐踏了委員會中心主義你們直接讓條文打包你們直接把條文打包直接把條文打包然後直接交付協商請問輸不起在哪裡啊"},{"start":27385.387,"end":27385.567,"text":"是國民黨好嗎?"},{"start":27403.177,"end":27404.998,"text":"我們既不改造總統來,對時我們既不改造特定的討論嗎?沒有重點!然後再一句!為什麼要加入我們的陣營?"},{"start":27425.234,"end":27428.176,"text":"小藍、小白都是合作無間。合作無間。如果要辯論條文大家都準備叫起綱。國會改革就要叫起綱。就要叫不來。這麼簡單。這麼簡單。這麼簡單。這麼簡單。讓你們承認你們不要提三會動議啊。剛剛羅志強就很快的還沒開始進行。羅志強就趕快上去問三會動議。"},{"start":27453.573,"end":27474.543,"text":"我是四十分之一的民進黨,對不對?我超愛民進黨,我決定要坐到你那邊去了。歡迎歡迎,咖啡都喝了,我旁邊有個位子,歡迎。沒有問題,沒有問題,來我坐過去。歡迎歡迎,沒有問題,沒有問題。這麼喜歡,剛好我跟你上課。我剛好跟你上課,我剛好讓你看看我們2024的版本,我來跟你開示一下。"},{"start":27482.432,"end":27505.869,"text":"他有種就回來阿來開始開示一下我們的2016年的柯總召柯總召2016年這是錯的離譜你不要冒名當柯總召你這個功力差太多了啦格局也差太多了啦格局也差太多了啦馬上就要中嘉賓桃之夭夭了但跟你們格局差很多想逃的人是國民黨"},{"start":27506.79,"end":27514.052,"text":"民進黨40次三會動議,國民黨讓你表決40次,我們都是坦然面對,結果國民黨只要讓保安隊打包,直接打包送交協商,你害怕什麼?我們不歡迎你,我們不歡迎你,我們不歡迎你,好嗎?羅志強,什麼時候這麼愛民進黨,很可惜民進黨不歡迎你好嗎?"},{"start":27534.845,"end":27544.872,"text":"從政者要有良知,要秉持專業,好嗎?您不可以罵2016的民進黨沒有良知,好不好?2016的民進黨很有良知的,我這個不能接受,我這個不能接受,我這個不能接受,我這個不能接受,"},{"start":27557.78,"end":27563.705,"text":"人員都要遵守憲法的精神好嗎在社會沒有共識之下有違憲之餘的條文我們即使是國會多數也不會強行碾壓過關喝咖啡繼續喝不要喝我們的咖啡然後還講這些違逆事實的話這就是虛謂不實之陳述這就是藐視國會啊羅志強"},{"start":27583.562,"end":27590.164,"text":"是今天主席藐視我們政委官員。真的。咖啡好喝就繼續喝吧。咖啡還不夠啦。咖啡還不夠。咖啡喝不夠啦。"},{"start":27618.82,"end":27619.72,"text":"案案案案案案案"},{"start":27643.733,"end":27643.753,"text":"案。"},{"start":30418.753,"end":30423.476,"text":"三點四點沒碰到我沒碰到我沒碰到我"},{"start":30445.277,"end":30453.823,"text":"三、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":30473.592,"end":30497.91,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":30499.514,"end":30504.237,"text":"之三及第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":30552.449,"end":30577.628,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具、「立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":30580.162,"end":30608.736,"text":"之四條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條"},{"start":30633.686,"end":30634.308,"text":"感謝!感謝!"},{"start":30659.002,"end":30669.503,"text":"之四條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文,其中一人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文,其中一人擬具:「"},{"start":30746.998,"end":30749.099,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":30852.295,"end":30853.156,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具、「立法院職權行使法部分條之三及第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":30906.928,"end":30922.719,"text":"而其中一、委員呂玲等17人擬具、「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":30959.537,"end":30961.646,"text":"之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":30993.354,"end":31018.041,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員呂玲等17人擬具"},{"start":31037.819,"end":31043.682,"text":"現在應該你來選總裁我?我不要看你這個樣子我喜歡美女大天天被編輯嗎?對啊"},{"start":31057.787,"end":31058.59,"text":"刑署令案例順。"},{"start":31985.498,"end":31998.021,"text":"來我們繼續開會好現在主席來這邊呢有接到兩個動議那麼一個是延長會議時間的動議一個是散會動議延長會議時間的動議呢他的暗由是針對本次會議你請延長會議時間延長是今晚十二時為止"},{"start":32014.844,"end":32040.751,"text":"另外一個三位動議是針對本日議程4月18日剛剛那個延長會議時間的動議是由柯建民委員等六名民進黨級委員所提出包括吳思瑤還有莊瑞雄、沈發慧還有陳委員跟本席另外我們也接到了"},{"start":32043.035,"end":32056.144,"text":"也接到了有傅君琦、總昭等六位委員提出的三位動議,它上面寫的是針對本日4月18日議程建請依立法院議事規則第26條57條規定,建議三位"},{"start":32061.889,"end":32081.628,"text":"那本席要說明一下因為今天呢民進黨這邊提出由本席來安排的五個議案的併案審查我們從一早開始包括接受大家的會議詢問程序發言我們希望讓今天的會議能夠非常的周延"},{"start":32082.714,"end":32107.614,"text":"事實上在這過程當中有多位委員提出對於本週一由輪值召委吳釗偉中線所排的有將包括以國民黨為主的委員一共有十五個提案二十個提案還當中包括民眾黨黨版的提案是關於立法委員職權行使法關於刑法關於"},{"start":32110.026,"end":32126.851,"text":"好像是立法院的這個組織法關於政府院長的選舉辦法呢已經完成審議但是呢未經過表決也未獲通過全案全部保留送我們院會"},{"start":32128.069,"end":32142.067,"text":"那本席基於向有包括國民黨委員在內以及民進黨黨團同樣是針對立法院職權行使法的相關提案修正那麼基於為了讓國會"},{"start":32143.669,"end":32170.426,"text":"的能夠健全有關於立法院的職權行使應該考量到更多方面以不會內部的衝突所以本席利用本週四輪值安排議程的時間將所有可以交給委員審查的提案通通同性質的通通提到這裡來那麼今天上午我們也很清楚的按照這樣的一個"},{"start":32172.591,"end":32194.378,"text":"提案委員說明、機關說明、然後進行詢答。到了下午,我們打算進行大體討論以及後續的逐條審查。我再次強調的,這些提案完全沒有在星期一的委員會當中進行過審查,所以絕對沒有重複審查的問題。"},{"start":32197.557,"end":32217.184,"text":"那麼由於本週一的各項提案也未經表決通過屬於全案保留送院會之前要進行朝野協商所以也沒有議事規則上沒有立法院職權行使法上重複審查的問題因此我們今天是希望能夠有充分的討論後來進行審查"},{"start":32219.165,"end":32232.263,"text":"那麼在下午呢我們進行了這個大體討論後我們進行登記大體討論那麼登記的委員有包括那個沈博洋委員在內的"},{"start":32235.719,"end":32259.046,"text":"時間快到了我們是打算進行我們的大體討論不料在我們柯委員發言之後就有國民黨委員似乎聽到要提出散會動議那麼散會動議其實就是不願意讓本會的大體討論主條討論進行下去那因此這裡面同時也有收到一個延長開會時間的動議"},{"start":32261.047,"end":32272.334,"text":"那麼延長開會時間就是希望說不想參與討論的不想逐條審查的那就請先回那麼願意來參與大體討論逐條審查的我們就繼續留下來不過根據立法院的議事規則"},{"start":32274.537,"end":32300.647,"text":"我們散會動議是優先所以我要先處理散會動議那麼現在依立法院議事規則第三條規定宣告本案採舉手表決現在表決傅坤祺等六人提散會動議不希望我們再繼續我們的大體討論和主條表決現在進行表決採用舉手表決表決前先清點在場出席委員人數"},{"start":32302.622,"end":32325.247,"text":"在場出席委員十二人,現在開始表決,贊成者請舉手。好,六人請放下。對不起,因為在場出席的人不含主席是十一人,對不起。在場不含主席十一人,那剛剛贊成的有六位,那反對者請舉手。"},{"start":32327.281,"end":32341.514,"text":"反對者是五位請放下那現在宣告表決結果表決結果除本席外在場出席委員不安主席十一人贊成者六人反對者五人本案贊成者多數現在散會"},{"start":32347.342,"end":32371.672,"text":"我們覺得很遺憾大家在這裡本來是希望能夠充分討論的但是由於三位動議一時規則要優先處理一處理三位動議就沒得討論了那謝謝大家也辛苦了我們謝謝各位列席的機關首長代表也謝謝我們會長工作人員還有辛苦的媒體記者女士先生大家辛苦了還有在線上關心本案進行的各位關心國事的好朋友謝謝"}]}},{"id":"15828","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15828","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d0a0e131ea932df6299e01fa654b137933be8d109af184be4c97fd68580a6101f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:30:29+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:00:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":12571,"委員發言時間":"08:30:29 - 12:00:00","影片長度":"03:29:31","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1907.20971875,"end":1910.5509687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1912.27221875,"end":1916.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1918.2628437500002,"end":1924.1859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1924.7090937500002,"end":1929.2147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1929.29909375,"end":1930.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1931.2903437500001,"end":1935.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1935.6440937500001,"end":1938.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1938.1922187500002,"end":1941.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1941.7528437500002,"end":1943.5753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1943.8959687500003,"end":1947.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1947.4734687500002,"end":1947.6590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1947.9290937500002,"end":1953.5822187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1954.18971875,"end":1955.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1955.5228437500002,"end":1961.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1961.8340937500002,"end":1962.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1963.1334687500002,"end":1965.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1965.9684687500003,"end":1968.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1968.1959687500002,"end":1971.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1972.0772187500002,"end":1974.1190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1974.4059687500003,"end":1977.1734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1977.5447187500001,"end":1981.4428437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1981.9322187500002,"end":1985.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1986.0665937500003,"end":1990.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1990.2347187500002,"end":1994.3690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1994.8584687500002,"end":1996.9003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1997.33909375,"end":2003.7684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2006.90721875,"end":2012.3409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2014.0453437500003,"end":2015.9859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2016.6440937500001,"end":2019.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2019.5297187500003,"end":2019.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2019.5465937500003,"end":2029.0978437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2030.4140937500001,"end":2030.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2030.4309687500001,"end":2039.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2040.5728437500002,"end":2041.8722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2044.31909375,"end":2047.7447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2049.85409375,"end":2051.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2053.33034375,"end":2055.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2058.1903437500005,"end":2060.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2061.83534375,"end":2064.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2065.02471875,"end":2067.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2067.97784375,"end":2076.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2080.53284375,"end":2093.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2103.24659375,"end":2109.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2109.6084687500006,"end":2114.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2114.3503437500003,"end":2132.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2133.50346875,"end":2147.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2147.94846875,"end":2200.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2201.12159375,"end":2202.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2202.67409375,"end":2206.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2206.82534375,"end":2263.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2263.74471875,"end":2278.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2279.05034375,"end":2309.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2309.71221875,"end":2353.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2354.4140937500006,"end":2440.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2441.0165937500005,"end":2576.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2576.59034375,"end":2623.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2624.3972187500003,"end":2676.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2676.9122187500006,"end":2807.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2790.58221875,"end":2790.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2808.4190937500007,"end":2810.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2810.5284687500007,"end":2909.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2909.75346875,"end":3085.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3085.96221875,"end":3088.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3088.93221875,"end":3092.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3092.54346875,"end":3122.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3122.90159375,"end":3136.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3136.46909375,"end":3137.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3142.3415937500004,"end":3160.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3171.18096875,"end":3174.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3176.80034375,"end":3176.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3176.91846875,"end":3177.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3177.69471875,"end":3177.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3182.4365937500006,"end":3183.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3183.2128437500005,"end":3193.8947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3191.02596875,"end":3191.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3191.0428437500004,"end":3191.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3191.44784375,"end":3191.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3193.91159375,"end":3196.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3196.25721875,"end":3305.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3259.16721875,"end":3259.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3259.18409375,"end":3259.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3305.6915937500007,"end":3331.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3329.63721875,"end":3329.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3331.44284375,"end":3414.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3343.7615937500004,"end":3343.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3343.7784687500007,"end":3343.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3343.96409375,"end":3344.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3344.03159375,"end":3344.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3344.09909375,"end":3344.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3345.95534375,"end":3345.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3345.9890937500004,"end":3346.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3346.02284375,"end":3346.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3346.2928437500004,"end":3346.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3398.2340937500003,"end":3398.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3414.48471875,"end":3414.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3414.5184687500005,"end":3414.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3414.8053437500002,"end":3414.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3414.8222187500005,"end":3414.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3414.83909375,"end":3415.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3414.85596875,"end":3415.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3415.34534375,"end":3455.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3417.4884687500007,"end":3417.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3417.5390937500006,"end":3417.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3417.9440937500003,"end":3417.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3455.9297187500006,"end":3455.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3455.9803437500004,"end":3535.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3492.54846875,"end":3492.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3536.11971875,"end":3630.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3544.23659375,"end":3546.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3602.8434687500003,"end":3603.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3630.97409375,"end":3647.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3638.5340937500005,"end":3638.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3646.8028437500006,"end":3648.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3647.9840937500003,"end":3667.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3667.55909375,"end":3670.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3670.1915937500007,"end":3673.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3671.0184687500005,"end":3671.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3673.33034375,"end":3680.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3680.99159375,"end":3681.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3681.5147187500006,"end":3768.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3693.0740937500004,"end":3693.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3769.0790937500005,"end":3806.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3783.5409687500005,"end":3783.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3806.3222187500005,"end":3813.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3811.2159687500007,"end":3811.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3811.23284375,"end":3811.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3813.2409687500003,"end":3813.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3813.2578437500006,"end":3813.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3814.3884687500004,"end":3814.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3819.5353437500007,"end":3819.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3819.9909687500003,"end":3821.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3820.02471875,"end":3821.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3822.3028437500006,"end":3825.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3823.3828437500006,"end":3823.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3839.07659375,"end":3839.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3840.57846875,"end":3843.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3851.12534375,"end":3854.8547187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3860.59221875,"end":3862.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3864.1359687500008,"end":3864.2540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3864.2540937500007,"end":3869.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3866.31284375,"end":3866.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3869.6709687500006,"end":3871.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3872.05034375,"end":3899.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3880.5722187500005,"end":3880.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3898.7128437500005,"end":3898.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3900.01221875,"end":3933.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3934.0322187500005,"end":3974.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3974.7684687500005,"end":4004.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4005.0253437500005,"end":4014.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4014.7284687500005,"end":4020.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4021.15784375,"end":4026.1190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4026.3553437500004,"end":4042.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4043.6015937500006,"end":4073.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4074.01034375,"end":4120.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4120.70346875,"end":4136.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4136.83596875,"end":4136.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4136.86971875,"end":4136.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4136.92034375,"end":4349.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4349.78159375,"end":4382.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4368.39471875,"end":4368.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4382.82284375,"end":4384.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4385.100968750001,"end":4389.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4389.505343750001,"end":4419.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4392.407843749999,"end":4394.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4394.63534375,"end":4395.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4406.17784375,"end":4406.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4419.981593750001,"end":4451.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4446.47534375,"end":4446.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4451.03159375,"end":4462.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4452.280343750001,"end":4452.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4462.28721875,"end":4464.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4463.8397187499995,"end":4464.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4464.278468750001,"end":4485.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4465.442843750001,"end":4465.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4474.2684687500005,"end":4474.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4474.4540937500005,"end":4474.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4485.034718749999,"end":4486.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4488.76409375,"end":4489.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4490.36721875,"end":4491.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4491.970343749999,"end":4494.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4505.858468750001,"end":4508.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4508.710343750001,"end":4509.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4510.80284375,"end":4510.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4510.9715937500005,"end":4511.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4511.106593750001,"end":4511.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4515.10596875,"end":4515.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4516.10159375,"end":4516.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4518.177218750001,"end":4528.487843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4529.061593750001,"end":4531.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4531.6434687500005,"end":4536.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4536.503468749999,"end":4537.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4538.5790937500005,"end":4544.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4545.278468750001,"end":4551.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4552.55159375,"end":4557.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4557.86721875,"end":4563.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4564.448468750001,"end":4578.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4578.85971875,"end":4579.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4580.39534375,"end":4604.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4604.54346875,"end":4604.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4604.86409375,"end":4605.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4604.88096875,"end":4622.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4622.65034375,"end":4624.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4624.6415937500005,"end":4629.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4629.872843749999,"end":4644.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4644.182843750001,"end":4647.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4647.86159375,"end":4657.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4656.653468750001,"end":4657.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4657.868468750001,"end":4662.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4662.930968750001,"end":4675.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4675.485968749999,"end":4680.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4679.940968749999,"end":4740.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4732.860968749999,"end":4732.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4732.8778437500005,"end":4733.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4733.02971875,"end":4733.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4733.31659375,"end":4733.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4738.61534375,"end":4750.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4742.54721875,"end":4742.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4750.93409375,"end":4778.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4778.03534375,"end":4798.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4798.92659375,"end":4829.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4827.968468749999,"end":4855.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4830.921593749999,"end":4831.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4832.052218750001,"end":4832.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4833.317843750001,"end":4834.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4856.0653437500005,"end":4856.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4857.229718750001,"end":4871.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4872.029093749999,"end":4873.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4873.61534375,"end":4879.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4879.639718750001,"end":4884.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4884.364718750001,"end":4897.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4897.999718749999,"end":4903.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4903.38284375,"end":4907.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4904.78346875,"end":4905.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4907.989718750001,"end":4908.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4909.120343750001,"end":4915.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4916.798468749999,"end":4922.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4922.45159375,"end":4925.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4927.0584687499995,"end":4929.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4930.04534375,"end":4939.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4940.32221875,"end":4953.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4954.09221875,"end":5051.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5051.5790937500005,"end":5063.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5058.61596875,"end":5058.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5058.71721875,"end":5058.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5058.76784375,"end":5058.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5058.970343749999,"end":5059.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5063.796593749999,"end":5092.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5092.60221875,"end":5112.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5112.3290937500005,"end":5145.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5145.53909375,"end":5162.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5162.245343750001,"end":5162.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5162.44784375,"end":5162.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5162.4647187499995,"end":5164.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5162.481593750001,"end":5162.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5165.333468750001,"end":5166.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5166.02534375,"end":5166.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5170.14284375,"end":5173.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5188.874093750001,"end":5191.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5191.590968750001,"end":5192.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5198.25659375,"end":5199.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5199.184718750001,"end":5233.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5233.94721875,"end":5288.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5289.01034375,"end":5312.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5313.090968750001,"end":5361.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5327.63721875,"end":5327.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5361.28596875,"end":5366.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5366.517218749999,"end":5380.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5381.08034375,"end":5440.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5387.22284375,"end":5387.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5426.5584687499995,"end":5426.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5426.67659375,"end":5426.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5426.69346875,"end":5426.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5440.51409375,"end":5441.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5441.02034375,"end":5475.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5447.68596875,"end":5447.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5475.42846875,"end":5540.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5498.530343750001,"end":5499.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5540.41409375,"end":5554.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5554.97721875,"end":5604.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5565.89534375,"end":5565.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5581.92659375,"end":5583.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5585.099093750001,"end":5585.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5597.0634687500005,"end":5598.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5604.0497187500005,"end":5604.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5604.10034375,"end":5604.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5604.876593749999,"end":5625.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5604.96096875,"end":5605.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5612.1834687499995,"end":5612.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5625.34596875,"end":5710.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5647.6884687500005,"end":5647.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5710.93596875,"end":5745.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5735.8603437500005,"end":5736.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5746.10346875,"end":5867.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5783.751593749999,"end":5783.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5783.78534375,"end":5783.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5783.987843750001,"end":5784.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5831.08596875,"end":5831.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5831.35596875,"end":5831.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5831.474093750001,"end":5831.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5833.51596875,"end":5833.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5833.532843750001,"end":5834.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5837.16096875,"end":5837.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5838.25784375,"end":5838.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5849.64846875,"end":5849.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5849.665343750001,"end":5849.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5849.715968750001,"end":5849.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5849.985968750001,"end":5850.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5850.137843750001,"end":5850.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5867.02971875,"end":5902.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5902.97346875,"end":5924.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5913.790343750001,"end":5914.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5924.21909375,"end":5924.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5928.91034375,"end":5932.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5943.30471875,"end":5944.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5945.39721875,"end":5946.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5946.42659375,"end":5946.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5951.995343750001,"end":5952.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5952.90659375,"end":5954.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5954.610968750001,"end":5972.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5973.15659375,"end":5977.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5977.999718749999,"end":5979.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5979.67034375,"end":5982.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5979.788468750001,"end":5979.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5982.319718750001,"end":5986.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5987.6522187499995,"end":5988.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5989.23846875,"end":5990.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5990.571593750001,"end":5991.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5991.80346875,"end":5991.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5991.85409375,"end":5992.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5992.124093750001,"end":5993.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5993.474093750001,"end":5995.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5996.02221875,"end":6005.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6005.82659375,"end":6048.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6048.53721875,"end":6059.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6060.53534375,"end":6064.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6064.3153437500005,"end":6067.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6066.72846875,"end":6069.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6069.05721875,"end":6069.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6069.86721875,"end":6070.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6071.08221875,"end":6074.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6074.06909375,"end":6074.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6074.40659375,"end":6089.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6086.4384687500005,"end":6086.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6087.974093750001,"end":6095.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6095.92221875,"end":6098.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6099.263468749999,"end":6103.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6102.16596875,"end":6103.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6103.6678437499995,"end":6121.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6109.590968750001,"end":6110.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6121.55534375,"end":6121.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6121.84221875,"end":6124.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6121.859093749999,"end":6121.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6125.08221875,"end":6125.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6125.706593750001,"end":6150.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6143.83034375,"end":6143.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6143.86409375,"end":6143.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6143.982218749999,"end":6144.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6144.083468750001,"end":6144.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6144.15096875,"end":6144.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6144.75846875,"end":6144.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6144.80909375,"end":6144.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6144.91034375,"end":6145.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6145.09596875,"end":6146.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6150.968468749999,"end":6156.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6155.92971875,"end":6163.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6160.958468750001,"end":6161.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6163.489718750001,"end":6166.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6166.965968750001,"end":6179.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6180.06096875,"end":6181.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6182.69346875,"end":6196.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6196.395968750001,"end":6223.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6208.309718750001,"end":6208.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6224.03721875,"end":6240.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6240.557843750001,"end":6249.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6249.788468750001,"end":6250.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6250.446593750001,"end":6254.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6254.952218750001,"end":6255.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6256.437218749999,"end":6265.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6265.684718750001,"end":6267.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6267.38909375,"end":6268.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6268.46909375,"end":6279.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6278.69534375,"end":6278.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6278.796593749999,"end":6317.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6306.555968750001,"end":6307.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6310.47096875,"end":6311.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6317.845343750001,"end":6322.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6322.6884687500005,"end":6325.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6326.012843750001,"end":6329.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6329.11784375,"end":6329.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6329.472218750001,"end":6336.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6337.3865937499995,"end":6339.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6339.61409375,"end":6339.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6339.647843750001,"end":6339.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6339.968468749999,"end":6340.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6341.1834687499995,"end":6348.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6348.91221875,"end":6364.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6349.84034375,"end":6349.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6349.874093750001,"end":6350.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6350.194718750001,"end":6350.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6365.247218750001,"end":6365.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6366.1415937500005,"end":6366.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6366.968468749999,"end":6375.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6375.591593749999,"end":6376.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6376.14846875,"end":6383.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6380.95784375,"end":6381.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6383.30346875,"end":6392.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6392.97284375,"end":6400.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6400.17846875,"end":6414.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6413.96534375,"end":6427.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6419.58471875,"end":6422.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6427.70159375,"end":6432.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6432.409718750001,"end":6457.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6432.52784375,"end":6432.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6456.28784375,"end":6456.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6456.86159375,"end":6460.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6461.53596875,"end":6462.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6463.155968749999,"end":6465.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6466.159718750001,"end":6469.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6469.686593750001,"end":6472.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6473.17971875,"end":6477.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6478.00596875,"end":6480.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6481.7353437500005,"end":6482.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6483.2372187500005,"end":6492.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6484.587218750001,"end":6484.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6484.857218749999,"end":6484.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6484.97534375,"end":6485.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6493.00784375,"end":6497.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6497.63159375,"end":6498.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6499.673468750001,"end":6500.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6501.19221875,"end":6511.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6512.36346875,"end":6522.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6523.214093750001,"end":6528.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6523.264718750001,"end":6523.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6523.97346875,"end":6524.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6528.90096875,"end":6536.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6536.44409375,"end":6536.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6536.849093750001,"end":6544.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6545.387843750001,"end":6552.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6552.407843750001,"end":6552.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6552.66096875,"end":6564.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6565.04721875,"end":6577.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6565.958468750001,"end":6566.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6569.8397187499995,"end":6570.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6578.327843749999,"end":6583.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6583.55909375,"end":6584.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6584.11596875,"end":6588.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6588.43596875,"end":6588.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6588.75659375,"end":6593.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6593.616593750001,"end":6601.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6601.497218750001,"end":6603.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6603.91034375,"end":6607.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6607.2684687500005,"end":6610.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6610.204718750001,"end":6610.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6610.66034375,"end":6612.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6612.179093750001,"end":6612.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6612.58409375,"end":6620.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6615.48659375,"end":6615.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6620.59971875,"end":6628.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6628.024718750001,"end":6636.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6635.702843749999,"end":6635.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6636.71534375,"end":6640.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6639.11159375,"end":6640.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6640.022843750001,"end":6640.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6642.419093750001,"end":6648.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6656.64471875,"end":6658.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6661.08284375,"end":6661.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6665.72346875,"end":6666.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6666.90471875,"end":6694.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6695.5584687499995,"end":6707.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6708.045968750001,"end":6758.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6726.743468750001,"end":6726.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6726.96284375,"end":6727.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6758.755343750001,"end":6778.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6778.6678437499995,"end":6779.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6779.96721875,"end":6815.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6816.079718750001,"end":6828.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6829.765343749999,"end":6870.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6868.18971875,"end":6868.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6869.35409375,"end":6885.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6886.98846875,"end":6915.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6916.13159375,"end":6939.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6939.030968750001,"end":6992.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6981.454718750001,"end":6981.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6989.6053437499995,"end":6990.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6993.57096875,"end":7004.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6996.10221875,"end":6998.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7004.91096875,"end":7136.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7136.384093750001,"end":7150.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7150.997843749999,"end":7163.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7164.24471875,"end":7181.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7181.845343750001,"end":7222.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7219.999718750001,"end":7220.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7222.75034375,"end":7236.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7228.08284375,"end":7228.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7236.452843750001,"end":7256.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7256.939093750001,"end":7309.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7263.67221875,"end":7264.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7264.19534375,"end":7264.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7281.99846875,"end":7282.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7309.97721875,"end":7320.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7320.034718750001,"end":7381.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7376.07659375,"end":7376.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7376.97096875,"end":7377.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7377.966593749999,"end":7378.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7378.9959687499995,"end":7379.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7379.2997187500005,"end":7379.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7379.36721875,"end":7379.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7381.47659375,"end":7384.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7384.497218750001,"end":7402.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7402.94159375,"end":7413.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7413.72471875,"end":7501.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7489.71284375,"end":7489.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7489.729718750001,"end":7490.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7490.7928437499995,"end":7490.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7490.82659375,"end":7490.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7491.40034375,"end":7491.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7491.417218750001,"end":7491.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7491.43409375,"end":7491.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7494.91034375,"end":7495.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7501.812218750001,"end":7502.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7502.0653437500005,"end":7502.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7502.706593750001,"end":7502.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7503.95534375,"end":7508.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7513.962218750001,"end":7515.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7527.66471875,"end":7528.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7529.6728437500005,"end":7530.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7530.29721875,"end":7530.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7530.314093750001,"end":7530.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7530.34784375,"end":7530.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7536.30471875,"end":7537.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7537.5028437500005,"end":7538.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7539.15659375,"end":7544.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7545.43409375,"end":7549.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7549.770968750001,"end":7554.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7555.592843750001,"end":7611.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7612.394093750001,"end":7622.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7621.118468750001,"end":7621.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7621.1522187499995,"end":7621.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7621.962218750001,"end":7622.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7622.58659375,"end":7622.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7622.92409375,"end":7623.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7623.95346875,"end":7642.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7643.055968750001,"end":7710.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7711.669718749999,"end":7737.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7738.09596875,"end":7763.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7763.340968750001,"end":7779.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7777.51596875,"end":7781.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7779.642218750001,"end":7848.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7814.35409375,"end":7814.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7816.733468750001,"end":7816.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7817.340968750001,"end":7817.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7817.35784375,"end":7817.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7849.4540937500005,"end":7865.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7865.9072187500005,"end":7950.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7904.466593749999,"end":7905.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7925.948468750001,"end":7927.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7951.446593750001,"end":7959.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7959.782843750001,"end":7985.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7985.92221875,"end":7986.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7987.305968750001,"end":7998.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7999.52346875,"end":8000.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8000.434718750001,"end":8001.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8001.63284375,"end":8009.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8010.47534375,"end":8013.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8013.24284375,"end":8016.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8013.95159375,"end":8014.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8015.4872187500005,"end":8029.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8031.029093750001,"end":8031.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8031.06284375,"end":8031.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8031.788468750001,"end":8031.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8032.446593750001,"end":8035.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8036.192843750001,"end":8045.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8044.24221875,"end":8048.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8048.46096875,"end":8050.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8050.09784375,"end":8070.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8070.702218750001,"end":8071.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8070.80346875,"end":8090.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8076.72659375,"end":8077.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8090.83409375,"end":8091.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8092.28534375,"end":8094.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8094.76596875,"end":8157.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8157.94596875,"end":8165.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8165.624093750001,"end":8177.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8177.6728437500005,"end":8227.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8216.29971875,"end":8217.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8217.93659375,"end":8218.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8218.03784375,"end":8220.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8220.484718750002,"end":8220.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8220.50159375,"end":8220.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8223.015968750002,"end":8223.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8226.120968750001,"end":8237.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8229.715343750002,"end":8230.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8232.11159375,"end":8232.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8236.16159375,"end":8236.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8237.34284375,"end":8238.743468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8238.96284375,"end":8252.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8247.02909375,"end":8247.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8249.543468750002,"end":8249.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8251.61909375,"end":8257.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8252.715968750003,"end":8253.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8257.289093750001,"end":8258.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8257.930343750002,"end":8257.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8257.96409375,"end":8258.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8258.04846875,"end":8258.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8258.90909375,"end":8266.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8273.67471875,"end":8276.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8282.14596875,"end":8297.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8297.890343750001,"end":8298.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8298.61596875,"end":8300.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8301.04596875,"end":8304.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8304.066593750002,"end":8317.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8304.960968750001,"end":8305.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8305.230968750002,"end":8305.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8317.195343750001,"end":8326.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8326.56096875,"end":8326.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8326.72971875,"end":8326.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8326.76346875,"end":8326.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8326.78034375,"end":8327.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8327.03346875,"end":8330.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8330.13846875,"end":8339.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8339.031593750002,"end":8392.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8394.499718750001,"end":8402.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8401.148468750001,"end":8401.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8401.249718750001,"end":8401.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8401.317218750002,"end":8401.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8402.24534375,"end":8402.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8402.29596875,"end":8402.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8402.54909375,"end":8402.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8402.76846875,"end":8402.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8402.835968750001,"end":8402.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8403.17346875,"end":8489.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8488.66221875,"end":8490.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8490.82221875,"end":8563.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8498.85471875,"end":8499.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8530.10721875,"end":8531.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8535.06846875,"end":8535.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8564.160968750002,"end":8564.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8565.274718750003,"end":8568.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8569.13909375,"end":8654.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8571.46784375,"end":8571.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8571.636593750001,"end":8571.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8571.653468750003,"end":8571.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8571.67034375,"end":8571.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8571.687218750001,"end":8571.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8583.398468750001,"end":8583.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8604.509093750003,"end":8604.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8605.774718750003,"end":8605.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8633.652218750001,"end":8634.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8654.813468750002,"end":8654.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8654.83034375,"end":8654.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8654.864093750002,"end":8684.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8684.969093750002,"end":8694.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8694.28409375,"end":8696.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8696.71409375,"end":8741.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8699.785343750002,"end":8700.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8704.577843750001,"end":8704.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8741.129093750002,"end":8754.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8754.96659375,"end":8755.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8755.01721875,"end":8755.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8755.50659375,"end":8755.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8755.523468750001,"end":8760.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8760.51846875,"end":8760.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8760.77159375,"end":8760.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8760.82221875,"end":8819.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8763.25221875,"end":8763.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8776.11096875,"end":8776.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8776.144718750002,"end":8776.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8776.39784375,"end":8776.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8819.63159375,"end":8853.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8852.41971875,"end":8856.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8854.191593750002,"end":8862.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8861.44784375,"end":8861.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8862.17346875,"end":8869.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8866.35846875,"end":8866.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8869.530968750001,"end":8869.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8871.218468750001,"end":8871.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8871.235343750002,"end":8876.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8876.247218750003,"end":8878.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8888.70096875,"end":8889.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8890.169093750003,"end":8893.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8898.79221875,"end":8902.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8902.707218750002,"end":8974.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8975.40471875,"end":8975.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8975.421593750001,"end":9076.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9027.93659375,"end":9028.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9076.03034375,"end":9102.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9093.664718750002,"end":9093.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9093.968468750001,"end":9094.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9095.01471875,"end":9095.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9095.04846875,"end":9095.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9101.02221875,"end":9132.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9132.477218750002,"end":9164.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9164.03346875,"end":9227.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9227.331593750001,"end":9228.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9228.968468750001,"end":9275.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9275.40846875,"end":9275.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9275.93159375,"end":9285.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9286.191593750002,"end":9364.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9343.00971875,"end":9343.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9363.242843750002,"end":9364.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9364.47471875,"end":9381.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9368.17034375,"end":9368.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9381.02909375,"end":9392.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9385.21409375,"end":9385.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9385.652843750002,"end":9385.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9386.78346875,"end":9386.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9386.867843750002,"end":9386.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9386.93534375,"end":9387.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9387.15471875,"end":9387.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9387.171593750001,"end":9387.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9391.019093750001,"end":9392.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9395.22096875,"end":9396.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9398.207843750002,"end":9398.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9399.675968750002,"end":9402.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9413.46284375,"end":9415.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9416.09534375,"end":9416.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9417.614093750002,"end":9418.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9418.54221875,"end":9419.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9424.95471875,"end":9425.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9426.102218750002,"end":9427.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9427.722218750001,"end":9429.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9430.35471875,"end":9430.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9431.60346875,"end":9432.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9433.34159375,"end":9435.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9436.41284375,"end":9438.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9439.433468750001,"end":9440.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9440.918468750002,"end":9444.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9444.765968750002,"end":9447.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9447.870968750001,"end":9460.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9460.93221875,"end":9466.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9467.175968750002,"end":9469.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9470.297843750002,"end":9474.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9474.63471875,"end":9476.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9477.503468750001,"end":9482.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9478.70159375,"end":9479.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9482.97096875,"end":9483.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9483.03846875,"end":9483.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9483.66284375,"end":9497.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9486.750968750002,"end":9486.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9496.84221875,"end":9507.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9498.546593750001,"end":9502.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9503.89596875,"end":9504.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9507.878468750001,"end":9511.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9512.50221875,"end":9514.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9515.269718750002,"end":9517.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9518.08784375,"end":9520.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9521.395343750002,"end":9533.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9533.562218750001,"end":9536.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9533.612843750001,"end":9534.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9535.43534375,"end":9542.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9541.274093750002,"end":9542.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9542.489093750002,"end":9542.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9542.57346875,"end":9542.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9542.809718750003,"end":9544.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9544.024718750003,"end":9549.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9545.66159375,"end":9547.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9547.61909375,"end":9548.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9549.964718750001,"end":9550.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9550.065968750001,"end":9550.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9550.09971875,"end":9550.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9550.11659375,"end":9550.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9550.21784375,"end":9552.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9551.770343750002,"end":9558.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9553.67721875,"end":9554.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9559.313468750002,"end":9559.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9559.634093750003,"end":9559.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9559.718468750001,"end":9559.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9559.769093750001,"end":9559.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9560.055968750003,"end":9578.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9578.618468750003,"end":9578.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9578.770343750002,"end":9580.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9582.06096875,"end":9592.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9589.06409375,"end":9591.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9593.08034375,"end":9594.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9595.03784375,"end":9596.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9597.14721875,"end":9634.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9632.43284375,"end":9637.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9638.204093750002,"end":9638.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9639.48659375,"end":9647.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9648.059093750002,"end":9657.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9657.37409375,"end":9673.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9673.574093750001,"end":9677.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9677.13471875,"end":9702.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9701.519093750001,"end":9701.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9702.430343750002,"end":9705.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9702.784718750001,"end":9703.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9704.691593750002,"end":9710.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9708.707843750002,"end":9713.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9710.969093750002,"end":9711.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9711.019718750002,"end":9711.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9711.42471875,"end":9712.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9713.09534375,"end":9713.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9713.297843750002,"end":9734.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9714.36096875,"end":9716.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9716.85846875,"end":9716.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9726.66284375,"end":9727.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9731.50596875,"end":9731.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9733.750343750002,"end":9738.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9735.555968750003,"end":9735.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9735.79221875,"end":9735.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9736.028468750003,"end":9736.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9737.78346875,"end":9738.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9739.26846875,"end":9739.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9739.285343750002,"end":9753.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9741.05721875,"end":9742.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9744.989093750002,"end":9745.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9745.42784375,"end":9745.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9753.93284375,"end":9762.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9762.218468750001,"end":9771.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9762.82596875,"end":9763.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9770.132843750001,"end":9783.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9776.86596875,"end":9778.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9778.97534375,"end":9779.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9783.852218750002,"end":9797.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9797.875343750002,"end":9798.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9798.617843750002,"end":9833.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9798.989093750002,"end":9800.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9833.852843750003,"end":9839.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9840.164093750001,"end":9846.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9848.247218750003,"end":9860.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9857.59596875,"end":9859.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9859.941593750002,"end":9868.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9867.46784375,"end":9868.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9868.429718750001,"end":9882.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9882.11534375,"end":9885.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9885.777218750001,"end":9886.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9887.042843750001,"end":9898.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9898.72034375,"end":9916.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9913.97534375,"end":9914.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9915.08909375,"end":9919.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9919.13909375,"end":9927.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9921.87284375,"end":9923.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9927.40784375,"end":9930.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9930.816593750002,"end":9932.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9933.094718750002,"end":9936.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9950.374718750001,"end":9953.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9958.879718750002,"end":9992.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9993.372218750003,"end":9995.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9995.54909375,"end":10004.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10004.88096875,"end":10005.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10005.488468750002,"end":10025.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10026.12659375,"end":10026.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10026.76784375,"end":10027.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10027.965968750003,"end":10116.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10114.09596875,"end":10114.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10118.399093750002,"end":10136.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10125.33471875,"end":10125.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10136.97846875,"end":10183.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10183.43534375,"end":10209.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10209.777218750001,"end":10244.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10244.961593750002,"end":10351.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10352.18534375,"end":10352.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10352.219093750002,"end":10377.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10377.109718750002,"end":10377.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10377.66659375,"end":10377.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10377.97034375,"end":10378.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10378.45971875,"end":10451.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10451.039093750001,"end":10463.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10464.235343750002,"end":10474.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10474.613468750002,"end":10475.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10476.21659375,"end":10490.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10490.864093750002,"end":10522.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10523.31471875,"end":10551.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10551.37784375,"end":10551.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10552.27221875,"end":10552.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10552.96409375,"end":10594.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10594.594718750002,"end":10600.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10600.028468750003,"end":10620.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10609.95096875,"end":10610.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10620.97034375,"end":10629.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10621.155968750001,"end":10621.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10629.20534375,"end":10629.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10630.926593750002,"end":10632.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10634.352218750002,"end":10641.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10657.926593750002,"end":10659.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10659.293468750002,"end":10660.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10666.414718750002,"end":10667.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10667.511593750001,"end":10674.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10674.61596875,"end":10694.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10694.140343750001,"end":10694.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10694.74784375,"end":10695.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10695.844718750002,"end":10720.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10720.87034375,"end":10722.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10723.55346875,"end":10740.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10740.495968750001,"end":10744.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10743.26346875,"end":10744.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10744.90034375,"end":10763.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10763.93534375,"end":10767.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10768.20471875,"end":10769.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10769.875343750002,"end":10773.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10773.63846875,"end":10805.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10777.38471875,"end":10777.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10780.472843750002,"end":10780.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10784.472218750001,"end":10784.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10793.145968750003,"end":10793.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10805.70096875,"end":10807.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10808.08034375,"end":10808.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10808.434718750003,"end":10867.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10814.121593750002,"end":10814.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10835.13096875,"end":10835.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10867.26096875,"end":10869.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10870.63596875,"end":10871.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10871.85096875,"end":10877.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10877.16659375,"end":10877.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10877.89221875,"end":10878.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10879.15784375,"end":10883.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10881.43596875,"end":10881.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10883.258468750002,"end":10883.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10884.43971875,"end":10891.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10891.577843750001,"end":10892.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10892.08409375,"end":10906.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10906.47846875,"end":10925.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10907.305343750002,"end":10907.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10909.02659375,"end":10909.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10913.734718750002,"end":10914.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10914.105968750002,"end":10914.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10924.872218750003,"end":10940.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10940.042843750001,"end":10944.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10944.784718750001,"end":10951.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10948.21034375,"end":10949.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10950.066593750002,"end":10950.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10950.25221875,"end":10950.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10951.93971875,"end":10972.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10952.800343750001,"end":10953.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10953.559718750003,"end":10953.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10958.402843750002,"end":10959.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10959.68534375,"end":10959.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10971.953468750002,"end":10978.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10973.15159375,"end":10973.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10974.585968750001,"end":10974.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10974.92346875,"end":10974.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10978.230968750002,"end":10978.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10978.72034375,"end":11001.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10984.440968750001,"end":10984.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10995.24096875,"end":10995.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10995.629093750002,"end":10995.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11000.961593750002,"end":11011.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11010.242843750002,"end":11015.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11014.12409375,"end":11039.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11031.31971875,"end":11031.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11033.68221875,"end":11033.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11033.715968750003,"end":11034.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11034.30659375,"end":11034.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11034.52596875,"end":11034.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11034.914093750001,"end":11035.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11039.723468750002,"end":11053.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11053.93221875,"end":11075.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11075.835968750001,"end":11077.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11077.523468750001,"end":11080.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11080.39221875,"end":11081.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11082.332843750002,"end":11084.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11084.745968750001,"end":11085.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11085.74159375,"end":11090.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11090.567843750003,"end":11092.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11092.94721875,"end":11099.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11099.49471875,"end":11099.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11101.01346875,"end":11103.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11104.692218750002,"end":11105.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11105.40096875,"end":11107.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11107.864718750003,"end":11108.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11108.910968750002,"end":11111.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11112.167843750001,"end":11115.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11115.120968750001,"end":11115.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11115.660968750002,"end":11136.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11121.95534375,"end":11122.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11136.282218750002,"end":11139.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11138.847218750001,"end":11139.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11139.690968750001,"end":11160.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11143.26846875,"end":11143.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11143.302218750003,"end":11143.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11143.555343750002,"end":11143.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11150.524718750003,"end":11150.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11150.609093750001,"end":11150.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11150.727218750002,"end":11150.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11157.359093750001,"end":11158.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11158.067843750003,"end":11158.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11160.76784375,"end":11179.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11162.08409375,"end":11162.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11179.95471875,"end":11180.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11180.32596875,"end":11184.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11184.08909375,"end":11184.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11184.359093750001,"end":11188.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11188.274093750002,"end":11208.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11196.222218750001,"end":11196.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11196.610343750002,"end":11196.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11200.255343750003,"end":11200.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11208.203468750002,"end":11213.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11210.515343750001,"end":11211.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11213.367218750001,"end":11213.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11213.417843750001,"end":11213.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11213.99159375,"end":11241.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11220.167843750001,"end":11220.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11223.171593750001,"end":11224.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11230.242218750001,"end":11230.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11241.329093750002,"end":11262.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11260.684718750003,"end":11261.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11261.832218750002,"end":11288.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11269.93221875,"end":11270.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11272.649093750002,"end":11273.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11288.055968750003,"end":11307.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11301.47159375,"end":11302.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11302.36596875,"end":11302.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11306.63534375,"end":11306.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11307.394718750002,"end":11321.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11321.82284375,"end":11339.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11323.56096875,"end":11325.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11339.929718750001,"end":11358.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11359.032218750002,"end":11363.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11363.41971875,"end":11371.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11368.60034375,"end":11368.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11372.042843750001,"end":11372.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11372.954093750002,"end":11407.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11406.99096875,"end":11424.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11407.21034375,"end":11407.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11412.239093750002,"end":11412.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11417.68971875,"end":11417.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11417.824718750002,"end":11418.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11422.785968750002,"end":11427.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11426.160968750002,"end":11426.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11426.97096875,"end":11442.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11440.032218750002,"end":11455.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11444.301593750002,"end":11444.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11450.157218750002,"end":11450.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11455.03409375,"end":11460.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11460.77159375,"end":11472.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11471.605343750001,"end":11475.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11473.512218750002,"end":11473.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11474.81159375,"end":11497.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11487.653468750003,"end":11487.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11487.974093750003,"end":11488.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11488.969718750002,"end":11489.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11489.03721875,"end":11490.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11492.83409375,"end":11493.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11496.344093750002,"end":11498.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11497.52534375,"end":11497.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11497.761593750001,"end":11497.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11497.812218750001,"end":11498.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11498.250968750002,"end":11498.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11499.870968750001,"end":11517.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11536.995968750001,"end":11541.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11542.04159375,"end":11543.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11545.011593750001,"end":11545.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11547.52596875,"end":11547.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11548.16721875,"end":11548.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11548.875968750002,"end":11553.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11553.73596875,"end":11555.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11555.33909375,"end":11559.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11560.35096875,"end":11564.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11564.738468750002,"end":11567.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11568.24846875,"end":11572.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11573.277218750001,"end":11573.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11574.880343750003,"end":11575.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11576.01096875,"end":11579.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11580.044093750003,"end":11585.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11587.199093750001,"end":11588.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11588.684093750002,"end":11589.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11590.01721875,"end":11592.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11592.76784375,"end":11595.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11595.754718750002,"end":11598.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11599.19721875,"end":11599.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11600.41221875,"end":11603.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11604.141593750002,"end":11611.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11606.301593750002,"end":11606.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11611.80284375,"end":11613.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11613.59159375,"end":11613.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11613.92909375,"end":11617.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11618.35034375,"end":11621.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11622.83909375,"end":11624.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11624.745968750001,"end":11628.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11629.11659375,"end":11633.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11633.79096875,"end":11637.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11637.65534375,"end":11642.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11642.49846875,"end":11645.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11646.329093750002,"end":11647.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11647.34159375,"end":11648.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11648.370968750001,"end":11666.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11665.296593750001,"end":11676.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11667.33846875,"end":11667.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11676.012218750002,"end":11677.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11677.26096875,"end":11677.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11677.31159375,"end":11686.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11684.922218750002,"end":11699.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11699.92409375,"end":11702.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11703.46784375,"end":11706.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11707.028468750003,"end":11713.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11713.74471875,"end":11715.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11713.812218750001,"end":11714.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11715.921593750001,"end":11716.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11716.343468750001,"end":11724.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11725.13534375,"end":11733.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11733.04971875,"end":11733.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11733.066593750002,"end":11733.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11733.977843750003,"end":11739.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11739.597218750001,"end":11739.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11739.95159375,"end":11749.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11740.00221875,"end":11740.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11746.617218750001,"end":11746.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11746.65096875,"end":11746.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11746.735343750002,"end":11746.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11749.48596875,"end":11766.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11760.45471875,"end":11761.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11766.15846875,"end":11770.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11770.613468750002,"end":11772.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11772.97596875,"end":11784.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11784.602843750003,"end":11785.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11785.78409375,"end":11789.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11785.817843750003,"end":11785.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11785.902218750001,"end":11786.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11788.63596875,"end":11792.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11790.32346875,"end":11798.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11793.968468750001,"end":11795.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11798.085968750001,"end":11805.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11800.667843750001,"end":11800.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11800.684718750003,"end":11800.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11800.718468750001,"end":11801.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11805.93284375,"end":11806.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11806.65846875,"end":11807.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11808.09284375,"end":11814.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11814.117218750001,"end":11817.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11816.26034375,"end":11817.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11817.559718750003,"end":11817.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11817.964718750001,"end":11818.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11818.032218750002,"end":11818.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11818.065968750001,"end":11823.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11823.95534375,"end":11823.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11823.972218750001,"end":11824.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11824.00596875,"end":11824.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11824.02284375,"end":11824.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11824.12409375,"end":11825.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11825.38971875,"end":11827.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11826.149093750002,"end":11826.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11827.836593750002,"end":11829.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11829.55784375,"end":11830.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11830.671593750001,"end":11837.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11835.582218750002,"end":11837.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11837.050343750001,"end":11837.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11837.067218750002,"end":11837.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11837.10096875,"end":11837.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11837.97846875,"end":11841.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11841.40409375,"end":11841.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11841.52221875,"end":11841.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11841.539093750001,"end":11841.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11841.62346875,"end":11842.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11842.349093750003,"end":11858.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11850.044093750003,"end":11850.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11857.65471875,"end":11858.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11858.81909375,"end":11861.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11861.14784375,"end":11861.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11861.18159375,"end":11861.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11861.45159375,"end":11861.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11861.839718750001,"end":11871.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11871.137843750003,"end":11871.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11871.62721875,"end":11882.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11883.203468750002,"end":11884.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11884.70534375,"end":11885.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11885.515343750001,"end":11885.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11885.785343750002,"end":11885.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11885.886593750001,"end":11887.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11887.995968750001,"end":11889.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11890.493468750003,"end":11894.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11893.68284375,"end":11893.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11894.03721875,"end":11895.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11894.61096875,"end":11897.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11897.68221875,"end":11898.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11897.699093750001,"end":11903.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11900.871593750002,"end":11910.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11905.765343750001,"end":11906.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11909.96721875,"end":11916.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11916.261593750001,"end":11920.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11918.13471875,"end":11918.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11920.21034375,"end":11923.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11923.24784375,"end":11924.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11924.20971875,"end":11926.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11925.57659375,"end":11935.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11927.21346875,"end":11928.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11928.833468750003,"end":11929.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11930.63909375,"end":11931.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11932.410968750002,"end":11932.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11932.47846875,"end":11933.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11933.96346875,"end":11935.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11935.39784375,"end":11937.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11937.70971875,"end":11965.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11966.32971875,"end":11975.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11975.594093750002,"end":11980.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11979.15471875,"end":11986.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11986.37721875,"end":11986.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11986.42784375,"end":11988.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11988.53721875,"end":11989.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11991.11909375,"end":11993.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11993.97096875,"end":11996.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11997.44721875,"end":11999.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12000.265343750001,"end":12004.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12004.500968750002,"end":12007.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12007.909718750001,"end":12011.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12011.41971875,"end":12011.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12011.453468750002,"end":12011.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12011.47034375,"end":12011.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12011.48721875,"end":12015.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12012.027218750001,"end":12012.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12012.938468750002,"end":12012.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12013.05659375,"end":12014.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12014.879093750002,"end":12017.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12020.059718750003,"end":12021.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12022.40534375,"end":12027.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12032.78346875,"end":12036.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12041.37284375,"end":12062.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12062.972843750002,"end":12120.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12121.242218750001,"end":12151.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12151.988468750002,"end":12152.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12152.460968750001,"end":12152.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12152.477843750003,"end":12152.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12152.96721875,"end":12215.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12170.63534375,"end":12171.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12215.03346875,"end":12243.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12215.539718750002,"end":12215.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12217.446593750003,"end":12217.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12223.58909375,"end":12225.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12225.37784375,"end":12225.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12225.58034375,"end":12225.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12243.974093750003,"end":12250.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12249.930968750003,"end":12250.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12250.926593750002,"end":12251.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12251.04471875,"end":12278.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12278.11221875,"end":12280.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12280.440968750001,"end":12281.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12282.044093750003,"end":12303.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12301.332218750002,"end":12301.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12302.294093750003,"end":12344.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12331.032218750002,"end":12331.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12331.09971875,"end":12331.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12331.11659375,"end":12331.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12331.25159375,"end":12331.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12337.05659375,"end":12337.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12337.343468750001,"end":12337.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12337.37721875,"end":12337.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12343.38471875,"end":12343.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12344.734718750002,"end":12344.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12344.75159375,"end":12344.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12344.76846875,"end":12344.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12344.802218750003,"end":12344.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12344.835968750001,"end":12344.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12344.903468750003,"end":12344.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12344.97096875,"end":12400.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12400.77659375,"end":12401.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12401.97471875,"end":12422.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12413.46659375,"end":12414.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12418.49534375,"end":12419.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12421.347218750001,"end":12449.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12447.28409375,"end":12449.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12449.91659375,"end":12449.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12449.96721875,"end":12450.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12450.06846875,"end":12450.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12450.102218750002,"end":12450.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12450.473468750002,"end":12450.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12450.49034375,"end":12450.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12450.50721875,"end":12452.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12454.101593750001,"end":12466.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12468.074093750001,"end":12503.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12503.91659375,"end":12522.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12523.019093750001,"end":12537.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12538.628468750001,"end":12541.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12541.51409375,"end":12541.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12542.290343750003,"end":12542.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12544.551593750002,"end":12555.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12555.773468750001,"end":12556.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12556.06034375,"end":12556.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12556.634093750003,"end":12559.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12559.70534375,"end":12560.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12561.76409375,"end":12564.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12566.77596875,"end":12567.67034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1907.37,"end":1910.376,"text":"報告委員會：初期委員8人以主法定人數我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1918.291,"end":1946.416,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議一事錄時間中華民國113年4月17日星期三上午9時2分至下午1時10分地點黃樓山林一會議室出席委員林楚英等11人、逆襲委員李坤成等18人、逆襲人員國防部部長邱國正及所屬人員、主席馬昭吉委員文君。報告是,希望因宣讀上次會議一事錄決定確定。"},{"start":1947.976,"end":1970.946,"text":"邀請國防部部長邱國正報告潛艦國造建案嚴格及目前進度．並備質詢。本次會議採報告秘密．詢答公開方式進行國防部部長邱國正及海軍造船發展中心主任顧志忠報告委員林楚英等14人質詢均有國防部部長邱國正參事邵維陽戰略規劃師師長李士強法律事務師師長沈世維憲兵指揮部參謀長呂振芳及"},{"start":1977.589,"end":2003.34,"text":"陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長劉青勛等．起答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請國防部與二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員另指定期限者從其鎖定三委員林毅君、王宏威及邱志偉等三人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報宣讀完畢"},{"start":2007.572,"end":2027.445,"text":"請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏、錯誤或需更正之處?如果沒有,我們議事錄確定。請議事人員宣讀報告事項。報告事項,邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告．如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法．並備質詢。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":2030.455,"end":2039.137,"text":"我們現在介紹在場的委員以及與會的官員首先介紹黃仁委員沈伯陽委員以及僑務委員會徐佳青徐委員長呂元榮副委員長張良明主任秘書"},{"start":2058.44,"end":2076.433,"text":"綜合規劃處 郭淑珍 郭處長僑民處 賴立寅 賴處長僑教處 黃正杰 黃處長僑商處 王偉贊 王處長僑生處 王怡如 王處長通訊社 吳小竹 吳社長"},{"start":2080.558,"end":2089.571,"text":"本日會議邀請僑務委員會徐佳青委員長報告．如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法．並備質詢。．請徐委員長上台報告"},{"start":2103.631,"end":2104.612,"text":"請各位委員先進於指導"},{"start":2133.864,"end":2149.462,"text":"首先大家都知道說海外僑胞是我國國力的延伸那僑民對國家的支持除了來自對故鄉的情懷之外更大的原因是對於我們的自由民主各項價值的認同"},{"start":2151.344,"end":2155.508,"text":"近來中華民國臺灣在多項的國際評比當中包括民主報告當中我們是在亞洲名列第二經濟自由制度排名全世界第一在2000萬以下的人口我們是排第一在全球是排名第四在自由度的報告上面我們在亞洲地區也是排名第二這個數字只是作為一種佐證"},{"start":2179.047,"end":2197.311,"text":"最重要的是在去年我們看到美國的一個研究中心叫做PEW所做的顯示調查針對美國的亞裔人口當中有七大族群台灣裔的民眾是首次被具體的列出來調查這些移民對於他原來母國的一個"},{"start":2201.152,"end":2203.673,"text":"臺美人對於臺灣的好感度認同度是高達95%在二代的這個認同度上面也依然是這麼個高那麼相對比在其他國家我們是排名最高的"},{"start":2221.88,"end":2231.344,"text":"其次是日本,中國的移民對自己的母國好感度只有4成左右,非常低。臺灣在各項方面的亮眼成績,是爭取我們海外僑民認同最重要的方式。由於臺灣長期都面對中國軍事經濟的壓力,除了在海外我們遇到很多的警僑"},{"start":2245.61,"end":2245.85,"text":"徐佳青報告"},{"start":2264.466,"end":2277.132,"text":"對台灣的一個支持跟認同是本會積極要努力的目標那麼以下我會分6個項次來跟各位委員做說明我們分別在這樣的6個具體做法上面來促進"},{"start":2279.11,"end":2283.772,"text":"僑界對於中華民國臺灣的支持與認同第一項是這個快速的來傳播臺灣最新的相關訊息那麼運用各種的這個平臺包括我們的官網有總共五大這個官網除了僑務電子報的例行報導之外呢我們也運用了很多社群媒體那麼這個社群媒體包含有這個YouTubeFBLINE"},{"start":2308.154,"end":2309.255,"text":"臺灣國內相關情勢的訊息變動或者澄清不實訊息上面我們用這樣子積極的做法來努力那同時"},{"start":2336.912,"end":2353.28,"text":"文化部的台灣Plus這個電視的頻道我們也積極的透過本會的一些宣傳希望有正式的一個管道也讓海外的僑民更加的認識了台灣在文化、經濟、社會各種方面的一個進展"},{"start":2354.508,"end":2360.45,"text":"其實我們特別跟僑團聯繫用僑團的網絡來為台灣發聲尤其是在加入國際組織方面海外的僑胞長期以來都非常願意為台灣中華民國來發聲所以包括每一年的5月加入WHO"},{"start":2375.24,"end":2389.573,"text":"9月加入UN或者是IKEA國際民航組織等等甚至形式組織這個在在都有我們非常多的僑民那近年來我們更加努力的來輔導我們的僑團讓他們透過他們在不同的國家"},{"start":2395.598,"end":2399.439,"text":"一些公眾的場合裡面或者一些公開的活動裡面美國也好加拿大也好歐洲也好有很多大型活動的時候我們就建議鼓勵僑胞所組織的團體呢可以在那些遊行當中可以在那些跑步馬拉松或者是相關的大型活動當中積極的來宣導跟參與那麼這個過程當中也是產現一個非常好的為"},{"start":2423.925,"end":2425.467,"text":"臺灣加入國際組織的宣傳效益有很強的一個作用那也因為這樣的一個行動而在他們的當地國也得到很好的迴響再會再回饋給我們的僑胞覺得對臺灣的認同是可以加深的"},{"start":2441.092,"end":2462.097,"text":"那除此之外,無論是國內發生天災人禍,亦或是海外有這樣子的情形的時候,我們的僑胞也都是會很積極的透過這種捐助的活動,捐款的活動。那這個部分呢,我們不管是今年在日本的能登半島,或是去年在土耳其,我們很多僑團就是會跟我們聯繫,希望我們能夠將"},{"start":2464.298,"end":2486.546,"text":"各種募款的管道訊息所以透過這些公益活動的模式也是一種凝聚我們僑胞對國家認同支持非常重要的一種方式除此之外我們也用透過軟實力的方式以文化的軟實力來拓展這個支持度所以從去年前年陸續在疫情"},{"start":2488.647,"end":2493.788,"text":"解封之後我們把臺灣非常優秀的這一些文化展演團體選拔出來那麼送他們到海外去分別在全球的六大洲都有非常好的一個演出那加以我們海外的僑團大家非常鼎力相助都去租借"},{"start":2508.772,"end":2508.812,"text":"馬尼拉"},{"start":2526.699,"end":2532.281,"text":"演出的活動就有一萬的當地民眾來觀賞那這個是非常讓我們感到驚豔的去年在馬尼拉的一個大學合作當中也是有類似這樣子非常好的演出即便在歐洲國家歐盟我們在這個沒有相對挹注非常多資源的狀況下我們的僑團還是非常自立自強的去租借非常好的場地那也邀請了非常多在地的"},{"start":2556.167,"end":2561.95,"text":"結克布拉格市民眾、官員、國會議員等參與,透過軟實力、文化展現,加強僑胞對臺中華民國的支持與認同。除此之外,臺灣的華語文"},{"start":2576.918,"end":2580.722,"text":"的能量事實上是與日俱增那麼在華語文的產業方面也是我們近年來僑委會重點發展的項目那我們透過目前已經在歐美國家13個國家總共建立84個中心的據點當中透過這種語言的教學跟交流促進"},{"start":2599.763,"end":2609.212,"text":"各界對我們的一些認同跟支持那也達到非常好的效果那在這些中心當中呢﹐絕大多數的僑校承辦的單位或者是擔任教師的也因此更加認同臺灣他們覺得在透過這種語言跟文化的教學過程當中更進一步能夠深化對國家的這個認識"},{"start":2624.471,"end":2633.634,"text":"除此之外我們也都定期辦理各種文化種子教師的培訓除了派國內的這個專業的人士去海外巡迴以外每一年也會選拔一些適合資深優秀的人士回到台灣來進行培訓這種雙向的這種交流進行的方式在各項的文化活動上面我們是非常積極的而且也透過這樣的方式向下扎根所以我們有這個FASCA就是這個"},{"start":2653.422,"end":2653.442,"text":"臺灣的優勢"},{"start":2676.977,"end":2680.739,"text":"我們在世界台灣商會的系統裡面目前有72個國家有176個商會超過4萬家的廠商加入了台商會的系統"},{"start":2694.368,"end":2697.49,"text":"當地的這些臺商都是已經移民或者在當地深耕30年以上在當地除了經濟實力有一定的基礎之外他們也對臺灣的認同度提高因此我們也積極因為透過各項的輔導措施來讓我們各界的僑臺商對臺灣的經濟發展的優勢"},{"start":2719.505,"end":2723.407,"text":"或投資各項項目以及在未來發展趨勢上都預先提前讓我們的僑胎商可以做一些佈局跟做一些投入那麼間接更加壯大我們僑胎商的實力以今年剛剛4月份在越南河內所召開的這個世界"},{"start":2739.975,"end":2742.756,"text":"臺商總會的這個禮監事會的活動那麼大院呢也是創下有史以來去參與這個世界臺商總會禮監事會人數最多的一次這一次的不只是我們的國會這個團隊陣容最龐大"},{"start":2758.042,"end":2761.884,"text":"從全球各地飛往這個河內參與活動的臺商也是創下數字歷史新高那這再再都顯示出來我們的這個海外僑界的凝聚力跟向心力這在與日俱增那麼透過近年來我們也跟國內的14家研發機構38家大專院校"},{"start":2779.156,"end":2785.599,"text":"分別都提出了很多升級技術服務方案或者產學合作服務方案來搭配國內重要的5加2產業創新計畫以及六大核心戰略產業並且積極的來優化新創投資的環境等等讓產學研的能量能夠充分的讓我們在海外的臺商能夠實質的感受到而且也受到影響提升他們的產業的規模跟競爭力"},{"start":2808.496,"end":2817.803,"text":"接下來是一個台灣很獨特在國際70年來我們的僑生政策培養了大量的留台校友的網絡那這個留台校友的網絡在全球已經有高達17萬的畢業生在將近17萬的畢業生當中我們在很多國家都組成了非常強而有力的留台校友會"},{"start":2831.053,"end":2843.923,"text":"那麼以我去年在南向國家裡面所走過的每一個地區每一個國家各大城市都有我們的這個留台校友會那這些留台校友會經過這幾十年來在台灣的這個培育之後他們返回自己的這個僑居地也都有非常好的事業發展所以在當地也有很多人成為國會議員亦或是在當地很有影響力那麼這個留台校友會"},{"start":2859.374,"end":2866.238,"text":"對我們在近年來推動僑生的這個招募工作上更加的這個積極的協助國家遇到天災的時候也經常看到他們願意相助捐款等等這樣子的一個這個實質的行動所以我們近年來更加加強對於這個"},{"start":2879.646,"end":2879.846,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2909.826,"end":2929.465,"text":"大學畢業然後移民到海外去所以也有很多組成這個臺灣大專院校留臺不能說留臺臺灣大專院校校友會這樣的系統甚至很多從高中的開始北一女校會建中校友會臺大校友會清大校友會成功校友會東吳校友會"},{"start":2931.547,"end":2935.089,"text":"各種各樣的這種校友會我們也都積極的鼓勵他們成立來加強這種網絡的這種宣傳那所以目前我們在全球有輔導127個留台校友會的組織那他們也在每一年都辦各項的這個年會活動節慶藝文活動等等是我們非常重要的一股力量那麼在近年來對於我們培育及留用僑生上更是發揮了積極的效應"},{"start":2959.124,"end":2963.327,"text":"接下來有兩項就是要跟大家來特別說明由於我們的僑民移民超過50年以上那麼近年來第二代第三代的僑民他們更加有興趣來到台灣不單單因為台灣有台積電或是台灣的經濟實力的提升更重要的是台灣有很多的文化的特色"},{"start":2987.019,"end":2990.442,"text":"在我們透過FASCA剛剛講的這種活動或是我們每年舉辦英語營的活動就是鼓勵十幾歲的年輕人到二十幾歲的年輕人能夠透過實際做volunteer志工服務這樣的一個角色過程當中來對這個中華民國台灣有更清楚一步的認識對文化的認同那麼以去年來說我們是在"},{"start":3014.777,"end":3020.459,"text":"疫情結束之後最高峰的一次去年總共有來自23個國家623個海外的志工來到臺灣的中小學服務那麼國內有4300多位學童也都來參加這個英語營的活動那我們也照顧到族群的不同所以我們特別跟客委會跟原委會也都有合作"},{"start":3038.504,"end":3041.686,"text":"科委會、原委會所支持的這些學校也都有很好的原名或者是客家哈嘎的文化特色因此我們的這些海外志工也有很大的機會可以認識臺灣的多元文化跟語言的能量"},{"start":3054.895,"end":3061.16,"text":"他們也都覺得這個學習對他們受益良多更加深了對於臺灣的這種認同所以我們在全臺灣去年就有16個縣市都有參加我們的英語營服務的計畫"},{"start":3070.208,"end":3076.694,"text":"那麼今年我們也是一樣有相當高的能量來辦理這個英語營的這個計畫這個在在都是希望說透過這個年輕人的活動可以擴大這樣子的一個認同跟服務那麼以上幾項是跟各位"},{"start":3088.985,"end":3104.553,"text":"委員特別來說明本會鞏固以及擴展我們海外僑界支持國家的一種力量的實施做法那事實上這幾年也確實因為台灣在各項指標"},{"start":3105.894,"end":3106.154,"text":"韓國瑜委員"},{"start":3127.803,"end":3131.407,"text":"特別邀請各位委員能夠在未來我們相關的活動當中都能夠來參與我們各項的僑務工作感謝大家謝謝"},{"start":3142.383,"end":3159.948,"text":"我們現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘﹚非本會委員6分鐘10點30分發言登記截止﹚如果有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右是詢答的情形進行處理﹚現在請沈博洋委員上台諮詢"},{"start":3171.209,"end":3173.878,"text":"好謝謝主席那有請這個徐委員長謝謝請委員長"},{"start":3182.455,"end":3202.555,"text":"政務委員早安早安我覺得對於我們僑界怎麼去增強他們對台灣的認同確實是一件非常重要的工作這個看起來也做得非常的完善其實還是很希望這些工作能夠反而在台灣進行因為台灣有愛國心的人可能不一定還有那麼多所以這個是我們現在台灣非常面臨的一個挑戰"},{"start":3203.416,"end":3214.268,"text":"那我最主要是要延續上一次有問的一些問題再做一些追蹤那第一個就是錯假記錄器的澄清是因為在第四頁這邊有提到就是說這個僑委會還是有持續通過各種場合剛剛有透過一些社群媒體去"},{"start":3220.614,"end":3244.04,"text":"讓僑界了解這個假訊息的危害那這個可以分成兩個層面嘛第一個當然就是在還沒有假消息之前先告訴他們說這個假消息本身的危害是什麼那第二個步驟是都已經出現了假消息然後這個僑委會這邊會協助做澄清嘛對不對大概是這兩個步驟那這一個呢我這邊只是舉例比如說這個之前潛艦國造還有這個雞蛋進口都有相關的假消息"},{"start":3244.52,"end":3263.162,"text":"我貼在這邊都是因為這跟國內政黨之爭沒有什麼大的關係這都是中國製造的所以就是說這兩個在中國製造的這個貼文裡面那它最主要散佈的這個對象有時候反而都不是台灣人民反而比較多都是海外的這一個他們認為是海外的中國人"},{"start":3263.802,"end":3279.086,"text":"海外的中國人就把海外的台灣人也包含進去所以就是大量的把這一個對這一個台灣人也一起做散布那目前呢我看到譬如說要針對這個來做澄清的話第一個當然是我們的這一個官網這邊當然會有這個新聞稿這個是沒什麼問題但是因為新聞稿畢竟比較少人會去點"},{"start":3285.228,"end":3299.539,"text":"那行政院這個其實新聞誠信還要再連過去那我後來有看到這個僑務電子報那因為僑務電子報它的這個排版相較於剛剛前面這一個它其實視覺上當然是一定是比較容易閱讀所以就是說會不會就是說在僑務電子報這邊有一個針對剛剛這一種的闢謠的專區的這種設計呢"},{"start":3305.063,"end":3330.481,"text":"好委員你這個建議我覺得非常好我們會來跟相關同仁討論一下看這個版面上我們怎麼樣來幫讓那個澄清資訊的這個版面呢可以有更好的處理讓如果真的有一些需要做即時性的這個宣布的時候海外僑民可以很快速的取得而且我們也會積極除了用中文華語以外我用其他的語言英文也同步來執行"},{"start":3332.262,"end":3360.451,"text":"對 因為這個 謝謝那因為像僑務電子報上面也會有各式各樣的欄位那如果說他欄位點進去然後又會變成是像這種的話那等於意義就會不大嘛因為這是官方的官方的沒有辦法那我們官方本來就會這樣做但我覺得電子報應該可以活潑一點所以我這邊有放一個案例譬如說像這個雖然是跟今天這個案跟今天無關但因為最近這個花蓮災情那災情的時候呢所有的災民第一件事情一定是想要知道所有訊息相關的澄清那這個是日本的他們的防災資訊網"},{"start":3361.451,"end":3362.694,"text":"那他們就會有很多不同的區塊"},{"start":3363.871,"end":3391.304,"text":"那所以呢像回到剛剛僑務電子報的這種區塊的方式那如果說今天在闢謠的專區譬如說他今天是你可以跟國家有關的或者跟議題有關的那種區塊的分類可以我覺得是看你們要怎麼做都可以那這樣的一個方向呢基本上會讓第一時間你這個電子報一發出去之後他們就可以知道譬如說在這一個禮拜之內有發生了什麼不是說單純台灣國內的爭議消息因為他對於台灣國內的爭議消息他不一定是他最在意的事情"},{"start":3391.544,"end":3415.35,"text":"確實﹖"},{"start":3415.47,"end":3433.887,"text":"好那這簡單的建議這個我先跳過了那接下來我會覺得一個比較麻煩的就是剛剛講的是中國他在海外去丟一些虛假或者一些陰謀論他是針對台灣但是因為中國也會針對其他國家做嘛那本來這個照理說可能也不是我們的責任我這邊放的是中國對印度丟的"},{"start":3434.528,"end":3455.099,"text":"然後這個是中國對印尼丟的,針對印尼丟的這個專門的這個虛假消息,而且他用了我們台灣就是我以前創意組織的logo,就是盜版的,然後這個是中國在菲律賓跟馬來西亞做的,但他做的是在針對日本的核污水,簡單來講都是中國在做,但從頭到尾其實跟台灣沒有什麼關係。"},{"start":3456.079,"end":3481.899,"text":"但我在想的事情就是說我們今天除了剛剛講的如果我們先能夠第一步先處理說中國對台灣的爭議消息的一個處理之外如果我們可以更進一步告訴他們說中國在這一個國家丟了什麼不利這一個國家的陰謀論跟消息我覺得更有助於拓展我們的這個同心圓嘛因為本來我們今天就只是在照顧我們自己的人但這些人他一定還是需要跟那一個國家的人其他做交流"},{"start":3482.419,"end":3502.081,"text":"在交流的時候他一定需要一些可以談的話題那這些話題如果應該是跟中國有關台灣是第一個作戰的前線台灣對這件事情比其他國家都更了解所以我這邊有一個小小的建議就是說如果剛剛講那個事情已經開始慢慢做好了之後是不是有機會去做這種中國對那一個國家的攻擊"},{"start":3502.842,"end":3526.611,"text":"因為用這樣的方式呢這一些台灣的人民或者說我們台灣的僑胞在海外他可以更深的跟那個當地做連結那這個時候如果等到之後比如說這個國外的媒體要去報導台灣的時候或者要報導中國的時候他第一個時間搞不好會想找到這一群人因為他知道這一群人定期都有在回報這些東西他對中國的手法非常的了解所以他第一時間會諮詢他"},{"start":3527.791,"end":3532.343,"text":"那這個對我們台灣人在海外能夠發聲的管道就會變多啦所以這是一個簡單的建議但不知道僑務會能不能夠會有這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":3536.795,"end":3546.561,"text":"非常感謝委員你提供的建議我覺得這是一個蠻好的方向不過現階段我真的是人力上一步一步來沒有辦法但是我們會先針對幾個僑區也許先在我們人手比較充裕的僑區我們優先來做這樣子的一個強化看看它這樣的一個效果是不是能夠適度然後我們以後再擴大來推廣"},{"start":3563.63,"end":3574.653,"text":"不過我們近年來有一個比較主動性的做法就是說我們隨時都會看全球的一些針對假訊息如何預防或打擊的作業的這種資訊的匯整那也定期的會把這個再轉傳給我們包括透過Line Ad透過我們各種的這個網路通訊的模式呢讓我們的僑民可以掌握到"},{"start":3589.296,"end":3607.476,"text":"比方說我們會提醒他說你在美國因為可能有很多人跟中國僑民有往來那因為有語言上比較容易溝通所以他很容易去用WeChat那WeChat他們的假訊息事實上就真的很多所以我們都會事先的給一些說你要這個的時候你會遇到什麼困難你的個資會遇到什麼風險"},{"start":3610.319,"end":3629.866,"text":"那像TikTok也是類似這樣,像最近這兩天已經有公佈說TikTok確實每兩個禮拜他會把這個使用的個資傳回他的母公司去所以類似這樣子的一個訊息我們都會去提醒民眾尤其我們海外僑民說你是用這個管道,你要有這樣子的一個心理準備"},{"start":3631.641,"end":3647.871,"text":"謝謝那就是說因為台灣有很多各式各樣的非營利組織那當然國外也有那他們定期其實都有在整理中國的這些東西所以當然比較快速的做法就是從他們的內容去做簡化然後呢直接告訴其他海外的人民他們的國民怎麼被攻擊是我們就是這樣做對對對"},{"start":3648.872,"end":3664.041,"text":"那這個我先跳過齁因為我覺得時間上可能已經沒有那麼充足了齁這最主要還是跟在外交體系上的分工啦因為剛剛我們問的有一些事情有一小部分其實也有問過外交部所以到底哪一個部分要外交部做哪個部分要僑委會做有時候我覺得這個不是很清楚"},{"start":3664.621,"end":3678.198,"text":"但是我覺得這個我們在之後的時候再來說明就可以了我們都是同樣的國家對所以我們互相分工的時候所以互補啦互補但是有時候是怕重逢而已所以我們也常常會去看外交部的東西如果他已經講過了我們有時候也會把他引到我們的這個僑民的這個網絡系統裡面來對"},{"start":3681.582,"end":3702.056,"text":"那最後我想問的一個事情就是跟剛剛其實有點類似這個是我之前還在民間的時候我們有在海外去舉辦很多的活動我記得那一次這個委員長也有參加在立陶宛那一次那一次我們有在專門盤點就是說假設今天已經發生戰爭之後海外的台灣人到底能夠做什麼事我相信其實很多海外的台灣人如果說他的愛國心"},{"start":3702.956,"end":3721.33,"text":"就像我剛剛講的甚至可能比我們台灣國內有些人還要強的時候他可能很想要做什麼事但這件事情如果說我們是等到真的有發生一些危難的時候我們才去準備一定會來不及那這件事情的準備又變得很敏感所以我們到底應該怎麼去鋪陳這一個防衛上的準備我覺得還蠻重要的"},{"start":3722.631,"end":3746.465,"text":"那左邊這邊就是我們在想就是當時有在想像就是說我們在海外每一個國家的這一個僑民他們有沒有可能去建立各式各樣不同的小組譬如說不管是情報的小組外交的小組媒體的小組物資的小組金流的小組他們平常就已經要有一個一定程度的研究他要知道說如果今天台灣發生什麼事情的話他第一時間能夠馬上幹嘛"},{"start":3747.205,"end":3767.955,"text":"而且有時候這件事情是三個小時六個小時之內就要做好如果在那個時候沒有做好你等到一個禮拜以後再做說真的國際的方向都可能已經沒有在台灣這一邊了所以這個左邊這一塊是我們當時在盤點的但是那時候還在民間的時候做那現在呢我是想要去問說以後僑委會有沒有可能往這一個方向的規劃"},{"start":3769.528,"end":3769.628,"text":"與委員報告"},{"start":3784.087,"end":3790.07,"text":"我們也是從這些臺灣已經有的這個組織系統裡面希望能夠分享這個經驗移植到我們海外有一個叫急難救助協會那我們用透過這樣子的這個先是做一些急難救助的這個系統來做一種訓練然後希望能夠逐漸的來拓展那委員這些建議我想我們以後希望也能夠向你們取經那就是急難救助相關的他要怎麼去expand這個我們之後再繼續追蹤跟討論謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":3813.2,"end":3814.201,"text":"麥克風收好了嗎"},{"start":3840.846,"end":3842.968,"text":"現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請徐委員長"},{"start":3860.732,"end":3879.158,"text":"羅美玲早安委員早安美玲美玲委員早安因為我們私底下非常的熟所以好姐妹稱呼OK好那委員長我想就這個僑生的招生跟留台的議題想跟委員長來做一個探討因為在這個國發會他在2022年的時候有提出來他說說未來要滿足我國這個"},{"start":3890.203,"end":3912.462,"text":"外籍勞動力到2030年的時候必須要進增40萬人那其中的僑外生應該就要增加20萬人那從我們過去的資料在看那雖然說我們每一年的僑外生畢業生有13000人左右可是這一兩年其實留台的這個僑外生其實不及一半"},{"start":3912.842,"end":3919.686,"text":"大概是五六千人左右所以我們在看如果到2030年的話要達到20萬人其實離距離這個目標其實是非常的遙遠那我們知道說僑委會最主要的工作其實就是還是在招生端所以那我們也看到說為了這個招攬這個僑生所以我們這幾年其實也有推出了很多所謂的"},{"start":3940.617,"end":3965.502,"text":"的產學專班那我記得我之前我有看過委員長你有接受這個CHRIS的這個訪問你有提到一句話我覺得非常的重要他說那因為我們現在就是說我們很努力的讓僑生來到台灣念書可是要怎麼樣讓他們繼續留在台灣就後續這一段是非常的重要那我有看到委員長說必須拉近僑生跟產業的"},{"start":3968.002,"end":3983.789,"text":"這個距離我想這個部分是非常重要可能僑委會因為關心僑生的這個工作除了他的就學甚至就業後面的部分都是僑委會要來努力的部分所以我才有看到就是說像2030年我們有"},{"start":3985.35,"end":3985.61,"text":"《僑生企業博覽會》"},{"start":4005.157,"end":4019.552,"text":"其實我們人力這個產業人力的這個缺乏其實它是有產業重點的比如說在這個產業人才缺乏的部分供需出問題的比如說"},{"start":4021.263,"end":4030.149,"text":"最大宗在農產品物流冷鏈產業需求人數新增人數高達23.7%在產學專班開設的時候是不是也要跟這些產業別做"},{"start":4043.609,"end":4043.849,"text":"中文字幕提供"},{"start":4074.109,"end":4075.711,"text":"每一年現在缺工的人數是兩萬人人力需求是每一年高達兩萬人"},{"start":4094.269,"end":4095.89,"text":"李肅岳每一年人才的供需是缺了一萬六千人："},{"start":4120.717,"end":4122.898,"text":"這部分我想僑友會這邊有沒有在做這部分的這個思考因為我有看到委員長你有你已經有想到這個部分是"},{"start":4137.122,"end":4138.863,"text":"是謝謝羅委員的這個特別深入的一個研究的提醒那確實我們近年來在針對這個新的人力的培育上面我們是跨部會的一些共識跟整合的所以以國發會"},{"start":4153.488,"end":4176.237,"text":"作為主導的這個角色那麼包括教育部外交部僑委會經濟部勞動部內政部甚至連衛福部科技部等等的相關單位農業部也都會不定期的加入這些相關的討論所以這些盤點出來就是知道說我們在國內的產業上面需求的人力結構的狀況那在我們招生端我們確實過去幾年盤點"},{"start":4182.059,"end":4188.809,"text":"那麼在專班的部分就是產業合作專班的部分基本上我們現在是以六大類為目標那這六大類當中有包括這個農業但是農業我們最大的挑戰是說"},{"start":4198.283,"end":4201.065,"text":"臺灣有好幾所很不錯的在做農業的這個教學的學校價值品質都非常高但是我們就在市場端的部分要找到能夠去做這樣子的合作的這種企業或者是農場"},{"start":4214.313,"end":4219.615,"text":"相對的這個狀況不是那麼的順利是在媒合的過程當中就不見是因為學校他要去找這間企業產業去做這個對接因為我們今天要開給他說你要開幾班多少個學生我們就會先問他說你有幫幫忙找到多少的實習位置呢你要有多少實習位置相對提出你這樣子的一種能力"},{"start":4238.703,"end":4262.246,"text":"能量我們才會在進行你辦學的核定的時候給予你多少的班級跟這個人數那所以很多學校跟我們說我們農業教學非常好可是在產業界的比方說有些派到大的農場去工作那農場就有時候不會很穩定他是季節性的主要是有這樣子的一個狀況或者是做到到一些漁業漁場"},{"start":4263.767,"end":4271.35,"text":"或者是到農會都有可能去做這些的服務但是這個複雜度會比製造業複雜製造業它就在固定的一個場所固定的一個場區它就可以這樣固定的運作這個工作但農業的性質它就會隨著時間的季節所以它確實是有它的難度那近年來我們也發現說臺灣需要這個照護的人力是越來越高"},{"start":4290.717,"end":4303.311,"text":"那所以我們也開始在思考除了原來的六大類包括營造、製造、農業、電子服務業等等之外呢我們希望能夠加強長照這一塊那長照也是我們在這裡面的"},{"start":4305.914,"end":4335.534,"text":"所以國內有一些很不錯的學校在開這個長照的課程可是也是一樣在實習產學合作端通常遇到的困難在這裡就是說這些長照機構他是不是能夠把這些工作release很清楚出來變成一個實習的位置那所以這部分呢衛福部也開始在介入做協調所以我們在執行這些方案的時候事實上是要一定跨部會整合不然的話我們在執行面確實我們今年學生招募的非常非常好"},{"start":4335.914,"end":4339.255,"text":"是,謝謝,謝謝委員長,我跟僑委會在這部分是,是非常的努力來做那委員長我也在chess裡面聽到,看到你在說,像業界一直在反映就是說"},{"start":4360.84,"end":4384.342,"text":"只有資本的五百萬或營業一千萬以上的企業才能夠僑用僑生他這個講的可能就是在評點制的這個部分那這可能就是要跟勞動部這邊來做這個討論那當然最近我也接到一些我們已經畢業的僑外生在反映就是說他們的求職其實是常常是碰壁的那可能就是"},{"start":4385.283,"end":4404.556,"text":"有些他去應徵的這個業界可能他條件都符合可是問題是他這個企業主他的資本就沒有到500他沒有辦法幫他申請工作、勞動簽證那現在有些僑生在反映就是說好現在他去應徵一份工作那也許因為業主可能不是很清楚說要怎麼樣幫他申請勞動簽證這部分變成就是說他說那很麻煩"},{"start":4410.14,"end":4428.527,"text":"那我肅心我就請臺灣人就好了,僑外生他就放棄了。所以有些僑生就說我們也想留在臺灣啊,可是我們求職就是碰壁啦,對不對?所以比如說有些條件可能我們要放寬,然後對於這個業界來講我們可能也要去鼓勵,尤其是為什麼我會說,剛剛會提到說有些產業我們在開課的時候要繼續思考,"},{"start":4434.249,"end":4448.834,"text":"因為這個部分可能就是真正缺人才的部分像人工智慧、智慧機械甚至旅宿現在都缺人了所以我們是不是說有些科系我們就是要來做一個開放因為很多僑生都反應說怎麼會覺得越來越遠的這個"},{"start":4451.455,"end":4456.499,"text":"簡單跟委員說明這個剛剛所指教的都是確實是這樣所以我們跟勞動部有在溝通一方面希望把評點制的這個門檻乾脆就拿掉因為它有一個天花板對 天花板把它拿掉這是第一個第二個就是說未來我們希望透過國內的修法能夠建立讓僑生變成一個有自由身份的這個制度那這樣的話就不會是卡在雇主端它是不是有資本額營業額等等這些的規範裡面"},{"start":4480.359,"end":4486.281,"text":"那我想這部分未來還有待大院給予大家協助,謝謝好,謝謝,謝謝委員長,辛苦了,謝謝好,謝謝接下來,請黃仁委員上台質詢謝主席,有請徐委員長請委員長"},{"start":4515.338,"end":4535.653,"text":"黃委員早安你好這裡我看到你的業務報告裡面就是第一個就是爭取海外第二代或第三代對台灣的認同那當然我們有很多的面向必須要討論的是第一個想請教一下委員長2024"},{"start":4538.652,"end":4559.868,"text":"在海外青年英語服務營報名已經截止了當然去年共有623名海外志工至國內總共有94所在國中小服務那今年是否有踴躍這個報名的一個情況"},{"start":4564.485,"end":4564.865,"text":"還是先導不夠"},{"start":4581.001,"end":4603.812,"text":"我們去年都有開始進行宣導跟委員報告就是說這個計畫是我們跟教育部一起合作的那學校端呢基本上是由這個教育部國教署在負責所以我們像去年來說一開始也不是學校很多所以我們後來呢經過積極的跟各縣市政府教育局直接去溝通"},{"start":4604.972,"end":4627.034,"text":"所以不只是一個教育部,橫向聯繫包含園民會應該因為待會我要點出一個問題所來那當然海外青年英語的服務員是應用海外志願來台投入志願服務的活動海外僑親投入國內英語教學活動"},{"start":4627.694,"end":4647.161,"text":"提升偏遠或教學資源缺乏第7的國小、國中學生及弱勢族群學習因應的機會一般為期為4週但是真正的話就2週原因在哪裡?第一個是"},{"start":4648.061,"end":4661.485,"text":"第一週就是教育訓練最後一週是志工參加參訪台灣所以實際上的交寫的只有兩週所以當他們在已經開始投入的時候"},{"start":4663.223,"end":4687.711,"text":"就這兩週為就結束了所以有沒有短中期的一個方案你們會有一個未來的一個提升能夠比如說長期或是中期或是短期的一個一個信念營有沒有謝謝委員提問那我知道委員非常關心這個原住民像我去年特別跑到我們泰安的這一個"},{"start":4689.152,"end":4702.027,"text":"問水國小去看那去年有三所是原住民的小學跟中學今年目前也是三所的中小學那園民會跟科委會也都很大力的在支持他們只要他們額外"},{"start":4703.588,"end":4708.509,"text":"我們海外來的志工呢這些青年志工是17歲到25歲之間基本上他們也很多人都還在求學所以他們不是專職的老師基本上是志工的協助性質那希望說讓國內的學童呢不會害怕去講英文所以藉由這個生活體驗營的模式那另外一方面除了說他們去教導孩子英文以外"},{"start":4728.314,"end":4748.759,"text":"事實上孩子或者學校的這個師長也教導我們這些志工比如說我們很多青年學生說哇他們去那個原住民學校學籍很多打獵啊什麼射箭對我希望你深入再了解好不好但是剛剛我提到的就是長短期的這個部分你們有沒有會有一個未來的規劃"},{"start":4750.967,"end":4756.89,"text":"我們當然希望就是這些年輕人我們培訓過後然後他們除了來做過一次的這個志工我們覺得這樣是有點可惜所以怎麼樣把他們能夠再組織起來做第二階段的將來再度回到臺灣可能成為我們的這個English teacher assistant就是這個英文的教學助理這樣的一個角色所以這是最近有確實在思考要做"},{"start":4778.08,"end":4798.381,"text":"不用思考,我本席認為說他既然是在這樣的一個過程裡面已經認定或認同的話那你現在剛剛我看到你們是希望爭取第二代或第三代對台灣的認同那你這個長短期的這個部分是不是可以提升"},{"start":4798.922,"end":4800.504,"text":"會,我們會強化在這一部分包括預算的增加跟相關組織活動的辦理那像我們辦這個青年文化大使過去是只有僅針對在學的學生那我們現在就針對說他們已經畢業了出去了"},{"start":4815.765,"end":4839.872,"text":"我們也想辦法讓他們回來做reunion就是說再有一個senior的更上一階的組織的活動所以這兩年我們都開始做這樣子的一個積極的布局的準備不是準備執行把你們初步的這個做法提供給委員去年的海外青年英語的服務員的學校"},{"start":4840.712,"end":4856.241,"text":"國教署總共有85個校克委會有6校但原民會是3校既然海外青年英語服務員是以偏遠或"},{"start":4857.302,"end":4881.63,"text":"教學資源短缺的地區中中小學的學生為活動的服務對象在台灣偏遠教育主要的是原鄉學生多多是為學生也多是為多多是原住民較多所以他的整個整個整個過程的活動的主體"},{"start":4882.711,"end":4885.352,"text":"我非常同意委員您的建議我們也朝這個方向來努力"},{"start":4909.212,"end":4914.218,"text":"另外我要講的就是有關於緊僑事務服務站對我國僑團的影響這個很多"},{"start":4927.516,"end":4952.51,"text":"報導中中共透過設立僅僑事務服務站據點及各種統戰手段試圖影響海外僑社的立場企圖展現展開這個影響力那這個部分請問一下僑務委員有沒有這樣的一個過程或是被這樣的一個涉入到我們僑務委員會"},{"start":4954.141,"end":4956.382,"text":"跟委員報告確實我們在兩年前在巴黎的台灣華語文學習中心曾經在一年內被駭客攻擊四次那他們的臉書網站被攻擊經過像"},{"start":4971.147,"end":4987.023,"text":"法國巴黎警方報案的這個過程跟最後的追蹤調查之後呢確實是中國方面的這個駭客所為所以也因此法國在巴黎的警方他們就高度的重視說在地的這些這個中國"},{"start":4989.665,"end":5002.953,"text":"警僑服務站或者是他們的公安系統是不是有對外侵略到他們的主權或者是防害他們內政等等的問題所以我們也因此也加強提醒我們所有的僑團組織跟我們這些所有的服務機構可能隨時要注意一些狀況"},{"start":5009.897,"end":5015.362,"text":"也隨時通報給我們的同仁讓我們可以協助他們那像這樣的一個案例我們也是從頭到尾都有陪同他們然後也去警局做這個備案的這個報案動作然後也做後續的追蹤那經過一年以後他們現在就比較穩定那因為這個也是得利於法國的警方他們大力的一個協助所以這方面中國也有所收斂了"},{"start":5036.641,"end":5036.981,"text":"那另外就是有關於僑團囂張的問題"},{"start":5063.937,"end":5068.961,"text":"在根據111年僑務統計年報的統計資料在111年的僑團數整體雖然增加但每週的僑團數減少了多達72個從111年底的3847減少為110年底3775原因為何"},{"start":5092.899,"end":5111.769,"text":"跟委員報告有兩大原因第一個是因為在疫情期間有些社團就認為他們運作不易所以他們就決定先解散那第二個原因是有些社團是已經非常有歷史年代久遠了但是隨著移民的年代"},{"start":5113.05,"end":5122.078,"text":"後班就是第二代的人願意銜接的不多了所以他們找不到可以繼續參與的人所以他們就宣布說他們要這個解散那還有小部分是因為我們後來經過這個電腦資料的比對發現只有重複登記的狀況那我們最後就把它總歸戶這樣子的話就是說本來是兩個就變成是一個所以經過我們比較完整的確查以後"},{"start":5139.634,"end":5160.612,"text":"這些減少的並不是真的是全部都是減少有些是以前同一個策團登記過兩次所以僑務委員會的功能是應該要增加是是不是是對嘛所以我們今天除了外交裡面目前來講沒有拓信的一個外交功能僑務委員會是非常重要的一個橋樑好不好好的謝謝委員鼓勵謝謝"},{"start":5170.185,"end":5190.843,"text":"接下來請林楚英委員上臺質詢謝謝主席 主席有請徐委員長請委員長"},{"start":5198.274,"end":5224.737,"text":"林委員早安委員長早安在研究今天的主題之前主席安排了這樣一個如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體之做法其實坦白講我上週看到題目的時候覺得好像回到我以前在參加國語文作文比賽跟演講比賽的題目所以我好好的思考了一下但其實事實上我很肯定主席安排這個題目"},{"start":5225.598,"end":5246.884,"text":"非常的重要尤其是人在海外的時候我們面對這麼多的僑胞商到底如何讓他們欣賞國家而且這個國家叫做中華民國其實是非常重要的我想從徐委員上任到現在已經都經過了一番努力那麼本席在擔任立法委員之後真的有比較多的機會跟我們的僑胞商來做交流"},{"start":5251.285,"end":5270.852,"text":"那麼我深刻的在這些僑台商的活動當中我到海外去的時候我感受到的是他們真的很愛我們自己的國家有的時候甚至於啦他們比我們看到一些新聞都還要激動那麼我在報告中看到了您提出的6點包括就是正面的傳播新聞行銷台灣然後善用僑社然後運用台灣的軟實力應用僑台商經絡網絡"},{"start":5277.554,"end":5298.948,"text":"然後再來是善用留台的這些校友的網絡以及第6點就是鼓勵僑親來台服務我想其實就已經非常的全面了只是說在這些的活動當中其實我現在最常接觸到的尤其在海外的時候就是這個榮譽職的僑務委員或僑務人員那麼"},{"start":5303.01,"end":5312.478,"text":"他們在第一線在做我們不論是對於台僑或台商的交流請問在聘用他們有沒有什麼樣的一個標準"},{"start":5313.477,"end":5336.971,"text":"跟委員報告事實上我們的僑務榮譽職人員都是榮譽職他們不但沒有像得到我們國家任何的一分薪資相反的他們還常常都要捐款然後出錢出力用盡心思有時候全家都要投入所以我們老實講心裡是非常非常感謝我們只能給人家一張聘書然後給一張謝卡"},{"start":5339.873,"end":5340.013,"text":"僑務委員會是從比較"},{"start":5366.884,"end":5385.926,"text":"這個之前的這種年輕的一輩然後到比較中階成熟的然後到非常這個德高望重的這種三種level那所以我們在選拔上呢基本上大概有三個方向第一個就是說這個當事人他是長期就是非常積極有投入我們的相關僑界的活動"},{"start":5387.587,"end":5398.494,"text":"或者是在僑團擔任幹部這第一個第二個就是說他被於每一次的參與度呢都是相對的很高不會說我們叫10次他只來一次那這樣子的話就沒有辦法這個大家有很好的共識那第三個就是說僑界也對他有很高的認同度"},{"start":5407.619,"end":5409.96,"text":"這個人確實很熱心各種各樣的活動他都願意來幫忙有錢的他就捐款有力量的他就找一堆朋友來有些人的朋友是在主流社會的同學、鄰居等等之類的或者他的同事"},{"start":5427.608,"end":5433.571,"text":"所以我們基本上會在這三種level裡面來去做聘任有些人他會說因為我是美國的公務員所以我不能接受我們也會尊重他這個是因為我們認為說確實他有某一些公職的角色的時候他就不能接受他國政府的聘任"},{"start":5448.899,"end":5456.965,"text":"對那如果沒有的時候呢那我們就會非常樂意去聘任他們那他們服務到某一個階段比方說兩屆的促進委員以後我們就認為說他真的是很實質上有具體貢獻我們就會幫他再往上變成是顧問那麼到了顧問級以上呢服務一定年限以後他就會成為有機會被推薦為僑務委員的這個pool的名單裡面然後再由總統去選擇好"},{"start":5475.737,"end":5490.802,"text":"那麼所以說就如您所說啦這個僑務委員因為在法規上面是有人數的限制那麼目前是90到180人那麼任期是3年那麼但是本席像昨天我們剛好呢有跟這個來自於紐西蘭的國會議員來這個一起來進行交流我們在紐西蘭僑台僑人數大概是"},{"start":5498.584,"end":5505.451,"text":"一萬五千人但僑務委員只有一位諮詢委員可以有11位僑務顧問21位促進委員是24位但是呢在澳洲的話因為我們剛好是這個我是這個澳洲跟紐西蘭國會聯誼會的成員那麼我們就會發現說如果是澳洲的話五萬多人但僑務委員可以有8人諮詢委員32人那麼僑務顧問56人促進委員80人那麼"},{"start":5522.108,"end":5533.054,"text":"在這個部分人數是如何來定定那麼有沒有考慮到性別的部分因為其實現在都是只是一個比較就是人數上面的一個規定但是我們相信包括這個優秀的這個女性今天現場包括我們主席優秀的昭緯我們的這個"},{"start":5541.299,"end":5555.208,"text":"這個僑務委員長女性包括我自己本人是女性所以台灣在性別平權上面是全世界都非常有目共睹的那麼在外協助的僑務委員的部分呢有沒有讓女性的women power也加進來是跟委員報告確實我們我剛到僑委會的第一年第二年我們都被糾正說我們的僑務委員的比例呢男女失衡"},{"start":5565.836,"end":5565.996,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5582.523,"end":5604.671,"text":"沒有達到性別比例的三分之一所以經過了我們兩年多努力在調整以後呢去年開始我們已經去年是不是有新的一任的聘任去年對去年底是到12月31號就結束那所以我們在做新的一任聘任的時候我們就特別思考說性別的比例有沒有達到三分之一那目前呢"},{"start":5605.051,"end":5624.469,"text":"有 我們已經超過了就是我們到最後總數在計算的時候如果萬一沒有我們就要回頭再去檢視一次避免說 所以這個很重要是說我們也必須從基礎開始打起所以現在包括我們的促進委員跟顧問性別的比例就是要越來越性別趨近於一致這樣子"},{"start":5625.35,"end":5648.809,"text":"本席也並不是說因為我是女性我就認為說一定要給女性什麼樣的機會或保障但是我們都知道剛剛講到的國家的認同講到的社會的參與其實過去的女性在政治面是比較不願意表態的那麼尤其在海外的台僑商我相信很多的女企業家或者是一些女性的職場女性她可能就忙於事業那麼如果可以讓她貢獻women power我覺得這個是非常好的"},{"start":5652.392,"end":5655.535,"text":"那麼另外當然就想到性別因為剛剛我會特別問說我們這個領選的時候到底有沒有什麼樣的標準我們看到這個標準都是希望能夠得高望重、崇高聲望但是通常呢得高望重就代表這個年紀上面就會偏大"},{"start":5670.191,"end":5673.393,"text":"那當然這個德高望重絕對沒有不好因為他的社會影響力夠他的財力實力可能也就雄厚有助於我們在海外推動活動尤其是像本席過去在媒體的時候啊這個消失的國界許多的這些台僑台商給予我們在媒體的海外採訪非常大的輔助他們都事業有成"},{"start":5691.164,"end":5695.185,"text":"但是現在因為隨著這個所謂新創啊或者是產業的發展不一樣啊那麼我們的很多年輕的二代三代可能他們也很早就可以有貢獻的機會那麼在這個有關於青年保障或者是說在年輕化的部分有沒有這樣的規劃"},{"start":5711.207,"end":5714.91,"text":"跟委員報告針對僑務委員我們這低於180個人比較清楚的一個統計數字目前在55歲以下的所佔比不到一成56歲到65歲這一層是佔三分之一66歲以上的確實是佔將近快六成"},{"start":5736.565,"end":5753.391,"text":"所以這個比例的懸殊呢也讓我們覺得說這是我們未來應該要努力的目標所以如何讓比較多這個還沒有非常是年長的人就可以有機會在促進委員或者顧問的歷練裡面開始去強化他的這個角色然後過去我們有時候起聘這個促進委員有人60歲了70歲了才可以變"},{"start":5764.935,"end":5776.445,"text":"聘為促進委員是我們都嚇一跳說那以前為什麼沒有更加聘任呢是那所以近年來我們就會強化去注意說這一些過去其實很有貢獻的人可是我們沒有更加提早該有的一些這樣子的感謝或者一些角色的扮演所以這幾年我們一直在盤點就是逐步的讓促進委員的比例呢可以開始增加一些然後也年輕化"},{"start":5793.039,"end":5811.427,"text":"同樣的在顧問下一層就會也有年輕化的趨勢那這個一步一步來現在我們僑務委員的部分我相信在下一次今年底還會再有一批一定就會再更年輕一些我知道很多委員都很關心這件事情那對於比較年長資深的我們也很尊重他們我們就會讓他們做諮詢委員比較是一個諮詢的性質"},{"start":5815.909,"end":5830.645,"text":"顧問的性質他就是在那邊做指導性的角色他不用自己親自做第一線的這樣子我們做一些分工那比例上平均也會配比比較清楚那跟委員說明一下我們澳洲的台僑人數不只5萬可能是接近9萬"},{"start":5834.709,"end":5838.915,"text":"僑務委員沒有8人只有6人而已但是可惜的是我們在紐西蘭跟澳洲加起來總共是7個僑務委員去年以前我們是5個女性然後2個男性"},{"start":5850.168,"end":5863.105,"text":"那今年呢我們是比較平衡一點,四個女性三個男性,我們就是希望說有時候有些場合我們被開玩笑說哇現在我們澳洲都女性的天下啦,那現在我們也注意到說怎麼樣讓這個性別參與的機會在各僑區都能夠比較均衡一點"},{"start":5867.651,"end":5879.461,"text":"好最後其實本席會問到這個有關性別或年齡的問題是在於說既然我們有不一樣的職稱那麼不一樣的職稱他其實就是包括促進委員僑務委員資訊委員那麼其實就應該有所區別我會比較建議是在促進委員的部分就可以讓年輕人多來參與那麼才不會說好像變成是有這麼多的"},{"start":5889.889,"end":5895.113,"text":"職稱其實只是為了去把人塞進去給他更多的機會那麼這對於我們今天要討論的題目或者是說對於國家的認同或者是說對於國家的支持這個部分事實上他沒有達到這樣的功效是我們也讓一些現在30歲左右的年輕人開始有機會擔任這個促進委員也很大的幅度是提升到他們對於台灣中華民國的認同"},{"start":5913.985,"end":5914.705,"text":"接下來請王地宇召委上台質詢"},{"start":5943.376,"end":5972.196,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩委員長委員長早我們世界臺商總會聯合會在越南舉辦已經完成了我們都回來了所以我們可以好好來review在出發前我們總是希望臺商的利益國家的利益為重所以我們有些事情在出發前不便討論是就我了解"},{"start":5973.217,"end":5989.946,"text":"本來世界台商總會聯合會應該是僑委會的重要的事務所以委員長一定會出席是你這次不去是不能去還是不想去還是想去不能去委員就是最後一個想去不能去"},{"start":5990.792,"end":5992.933,"text":"有提出申請嗎?有。被拒絕?有。我事實上,今年在3月的時候,我們市總的團隊也非常積極地跟越南的府方溝通。府方也都非常的歡迎。"},{"start":6006.179,"end":6021.674,"text":"這個是慣例上我們僑委會委員長去參加世界台商總會聯合會不管到約寶到澳洲到哪裡到美國大概都沒有問題但這一次是因為越南本身的政治局勢我們這個聯合會總會"},{"start":6024.696,"end":6047.269,"text":"這個聯合會在辦的時候剛好他們的副總理跟他們的國會議長人在北京是那他們的內部政治局勢是他國內政我們不干涉但我們大概觀測的大概是他們國家的內部政治有一些發展對所以導致不僅是委員長僑務委員長不能出席我們立法院的副院長江啟臣也不能出席是所以這個壓力是來自於中國"},{"start":6049.03,"end":6070.101,"text":"借由越南本身政治局勢的發展以及越南的重要人士在北京把這個干擾壓力放大放大了形成一個坦白講是一個相當不友善的一個干預我們也體會越南方面的這個壓力不大我可以體會朋友們的不方便但是對於在"},{"start":6071.761,"end":6096.496,"text":"兩國的事務上這是一個不禮貌的干預民選的立法院副委員長為什麼不能去委員長負責僑商負責這些事務的為什麼不能去所以這是一個不友善的動作但動作來源未必我們都怪越南方他這個當然來自於北京把自己跟委員報告其實3月的時候越南官方是非常歡迎我們都把我們的名字提出去他們都說非常歡迎原來的設計我跟你講我們開會地點在哪裡"},{"start":6099.318,"end":6124.143,"text":"河內河內的什麼東西國家的會議中心對沒錯國家會議中心那個是當作最重要的因為他們還屬於社會主義共產主義國家是能夠進到國家會議中心開會就是國家他們越南國家認可的重要會議嗎是的所以他當然原來是熱切歡迎全力配合後來才變化對除了出席人員的變化我們也看到會場佈置嗯"},{"start":6125.803,"end":6150.604,"text":"我們是作為客人我們這些立委去參與的像我們外交委員會是正式議程按照慣例我們大概全部立法院委員會就我們委員會會根據臺商聯合會總會聯合會在哪個地方辦那個禮拜的議程看誰輪值招委就會排去那裡這是慣例都這樣處理對去年也是這樣那我們去出席現場我們沒有感受到什麼異樣後來才知道原來桌上都有桌牌"},{"start":6151.304,"end":6178.422,"text":"對,我們在從外交部的歡迎晚宴每一個委員的那個桌你沒有區域你不曉得我們去的時候第一個時間看到三個大主桌都是一片空白你還真的不曉得要坐哪裡因為我說以往不會這樣子本來同仁還拍了那個照片給我看我說排得很好後來才發現那個桌排因為有都被收走了有國旗收走有那個總統副總統的錄影致詞被改成書面的宣讀宣念所以這個干預的現況大概是這樣子"},{"start":6180.123,"end":6198.806,"text":"那我現在要問的是我方啦越南尤其在北越現在積極發展IT電子跟所謂的半導體產業他們的期望南越是我們傳統台灣去投資傳統產業最多的地方是車燈啦腳踏車啦等等中越呢雖然在合淨有"},{"start":6200.266,"end":6223.455,"text":"臺碩的鋼鐵廠但中越相對是比較落後但是北越跟中越來臺灣幫助我們這些移工朋友的數量是最多在臺灣求學11萬個外籍學生越南大概佔了3萬所以兩國不能說不密切我們也很感謝越南不管是移工或者相關在他們那裡在我們這裡對我們協助但現在問題就是當它要發展的時候"},{"start":6224.215,"end":6249.614,"text":"一個1億多的人口越南他需要我們去幫他發展經濟臺商總會本來也希望在那邊做一個報告報告幫越南招商你認為越南政府這一次因為中國的干擾採取的作為僑委會有沒有去調查詢問我們臺商不管是美國臺商越南臺商或者臺灣的這個企業家或者在各國因為這一次各大洲都去了對"},{"start":6250.675,"end":6276.364,"text":"對於越南這樣子的行為有沒有影響他們的投資意願確實有有部分的在包括亞洲其他國家或是在美洲的這個甚至大洋洲的臺商說他們本來抱著很高的期待也覺得說我們在越南我們在越南其實是臺商人數是佔第三"},{"start":6279.225,"end":6305.88,"text":"但是投資額是第一喔很多人以為其實長期以來在越南台灣為什麼有影響力我們要給台商掌聲鼓勵因為我們在越南的投資額都永遠前三名可是呢如果你把台商掛新加坡資本過去富士康就變新加坡商阿你如果把那一塊抓出來算的話我們在越南創造的就業機會跟投資金額不是數一也數二啦"},{"start":6306.48,"end":6318.694,"text":"所以我們對他也是實質兩國應該是互利互惠的所以這一次的台商總會聯合會在那邊辦其實對越南他重視是應該的對 金豬可以來 有人要來搗豬"},{"start":6322.719,"end":6339.055,"text":"我好好跟你說明一下電力供應的問題希望你來投資什麼項目我們的廣達我們的偉創分別在南定在他們越南的河南投資設廠一個一期工程就是6000個員工所以"},{"start":6341.243,"end":6364.41,"text":"我剛才講平等互惠我們不會因為我們去那邊做生意就看人比較小但我們也不能因為我們要去那邊做生意變成我們比較小所以我聽到台商說本來要我聽到的是越南台商講的本來要好好的幫越南招商讓台各地台商看到越南的機會商機大家來合作就被他們這樣一弄你這麼容易被北京"},{"start":6365.31,"end":6373.173,"text":"臺商是你們輔導的重點就你們觀察了臺商因為這次干預事件有沒有影響或者是負面的造成投資意願降低如果有要讓越南政府知道"},{"start":6393.767,"end":6413.306,"text":"我在部分群組裡面確實有看到他們的討論他們確實會覺得有疑慮那這個疑慮跟他們原始要出去之前的判斷是有落差的所以很多人其實到最後一刻也不知道江啟臣副院長不能到也不知道我不能到當然我們是基於說不要讓這個主辦單位困擾"},{"start":6415.147,"end":6431.742,"text":"像我自己我們都不說嘛會前不說是希望總是希望主辦方能夠更順利就好那我們是客人也不用說去之前讓整個活動產生影響但是事後的評估是要那政府其實因為台商會詢問政府意見"},{"start":6432.423,"end":6432.703,"text":"我現在在國會殿堂我們講話要負責"},{"start":6461.601,"end":6479.23,"text":"在臺商總會聯合會的開幕式都要等到介紹我們這些立法委員的職銜僑委會副委員長阮昭雄的職銜總統蔡英文副總統賴清德宣讀都要那個完了他們的人才敢進入會場的話"},{"start":6481.786,"end":6510.165,"text":"投資風險當然有啊怎麼會沒有你連這麼小的事情這在世界各國都已經不是問題了你在那邊形成問題所以我具體建議很多國家的投資創投會做一件事情你們不能只看群組發問卷發問卷就這一次台商在越南舉辦總會有沒有什麼僑委會需要精進改進的地方有沒有什麼要給我們的台商總會的意見然後"},{"start":6512.421,"end":6527.539,"text":"就越南方這一次對我們出席人員場地佈置對於政府的相關的象徵的干預是否會影響您的投資意願是否會列為您的投資風險評估要件台積電現在"},{"start":6528.976,"end":6544.689,"text":"有請讀社會科學的其實要評估這個所有的商務投資地緣政治是必要的評估要件不管是各國的歐洲商會各國商會在評估重大投資除了勞動力成本多少什麼成本多少什麼成本多少以外"},{"start":6545.43,"end":6572.044,"text":"地緣政治風險現在是最重要的評估項目之一喔確實那我們僑委會可以扮演這個角色來我問了一下好詢問完之後收集出來你就會有個數據這數據告訴說因為這個事件我們甚至你可以先轉到下一個設計那個問卷原來有投資意願的有三層轉落或者紅黃綠燈看你要用李克特這樣表什麼就去設計這個然後呢接下來呢"},{"start":6572.564,"end":6592.75,"text":"本來想要來看看的現在認為暫時不用考慮把這個量化之後這是一個僑委會很好本來就你該做的事情叫做地緣政治風險評估嘛那風險評估的時候給我國的IT半導體的大廠做參考給我們的台商做參考最重要是讓越南政府做參考以外"},{"start":6593.65,"end":6620.294,"text":"以後其他各國希望臺商去那邊發展的他也應該要思考如果你不能在地緣政治上迴避干預保護我們臺灣人的話那對我們的投資意願天下何其大全球化的世界我為什麼一定要往哪裡塞菲律賓也在爭取啊菲律賓的語言方便性也不低啊所以我這一點可不可以要求僑委會盡速做不要過太久過太久就沒感覺了"},{"start":6620.694,"end":6639.82,"text":"好,委員我們就藉著你的這個建議我們會積極的來跟市總的所有理監室參與者做一個問卷調查對,你把它收集起來收集起來之後一份報告給我們委員會那我們也以後列為很重要的參考好的你們的業務給你們建議我們希望看到成果好,謝謝委員長謝謝王定宇委員的發言那接下來由馬文君委員發言"},{"start":6656.707,"end":6656.847,"text":"麻煩委員長"},{"start":6665.848,"end":6694.528,"text":"馬昭薇好委員長好我延續剛剛王定宇委員他的這個議題因為這一次我們都有隨團去參加那這一次臺商總會聯合會舉辦發生的這些差距說差距他可能也是政治干擾的問題不管過去或現在或未來都會面臨到的那在這裡我也"},{"start":6696.17,"end":6711.761,"text":"會呼籲因為北京當局其實做這樣子如果是由他們主動去干預做這麼大的尤其是對於這樣的民間團體的一個全球的會議去做這樣的干擾我覺得是小鼻子小眼睛"},{"start":6712.821,"end":6725.966,"text":"可是我們在這裡也看到就像剛剛講的越南方面其實他們戒慎恐懼也許他們只是一個小的動作可是他們做很大的反應這個才是我們應該要警惕的可是我們也要看到國際的現實面今天為什麼會這樣子"},{"start":6734.429,"end":6757.848,"text":"整個的市場整個的供應鏈整個很多的方方面面的條件其實他們的影響力大得多即使我們台灣很多的廠商在越南的投資高達現在他們的官方統計是第6位可是如果透過其他的國家進去投資也是我們的台商"},{"start":6758.829,"end":6760.111,"text":"因為都有這麼大的投資額可是還會發生這樣的問題那個我們可能要審慎的評估跟考量這個可能不是只有做調查"},{"start":6779.172,"end":6797.782,"text":"因為記得在上一次台塑在越南發生就是上一次他們有發生過暴動的時候其實很多國家也在考慮越南是不是一個適合投資的地方包括我們很多的台商可是當他們做完評估以後越南還是他們的首選"},{"start":6798.783,"end":6799.243,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6816.155,"end":6828.261,"text":"的方面說了算今天有很多的投資者他們要投資要把錢放進去的時候這都是身家財產他們想的會比我們多那他們可能會傾向於妥協"},{"start":6829.844,"end":6849.056,"text":"所以我們應該要怎麼樣拿捏不管因為現在新政府要上來了未來整個國際的局勢兩岸的局勢它其實同等重要其實我要強調的是這一點所以如果說我們不可以被欺負可是我們可以有更好的溝通能力就像徐委員長"},{"start":6850.057,"end":6855.881,"text":"其實我看你常常都是笑嘻嘻的所以即使在面對不同意見或者不同政黨或者不同的政治態度的時候我們怎麼樣去溝通這個非常重要從小放大我想這個應該他的做法都是一致的"},{"start":6869.61,"end":6881.417,"text":"其實這一次我跟召委報告我們跟越方的溝通其實都暢行無阻那越方也很坦誠跟我們解釋了很多內部的狀況他們說的來自於這個"},{"start":6887.04,"end":6914.571,"text":"中國的大使館壓力是幾乎24小時緊盯著他們的狀態所以我可以清楚感受到他們的壓力他們也派人來跟我們致歉也特別請我跟江啟臣副院長表達歉意就是希望說不要因為這個事件來造成彼此雙方之間未來的一些合作但是我們也提醒他們就是說"},{"start":6916.192,"end":6920.815,"text":"不是我們官方的問題而已而是民間他們看到這種狀況的時候會有所擔憂所以也期待說在某些穩定度上可以讓我們的投資者更加放心畢竟這個經濟自由度跟穩定度這個都是全球的這個企業非常重視的項目"},{"start":6940.466,"end":6964.133,"text":"對我剛剛說的就是說因為我們看結果今天不管人家用什麼樣的手段不管用什麼樣的方式可是結果就是這樣所以今天如果說在越南投資的臺商是我們非常重要的資產他也是非常重要的角色如果說對岸今天會使這麼大的力表示其實這裡面有很多很重要的因素在裡面"},{"start":6965.554,"end":6992.049,"text":"看結果我們現在面臨的就是這樣子所以應該要怎麼樣去做調整或改變或可以讓他變好這是我們應該努力的因為我們沒有辦法去要求其他的國家或者別人應該怎麼做可是我們應該怎麼做我們可以有主導權這個部分我們可以讓我們更好自由國家可以走的出去我們的台商可以有更好的環境這個是政府應該要做的所以我覺得其他理由可能我們"},{"start":6993.872,"end":7018.883,"text":"講了也沒用結果就是這樣我們會加強溝通另外我要請教的是我們現在面臨少者化高齡化我們工作人口減少老化所以在台灣的經濟成長人力很欠缺的情況之下我們僑委會其實也配合政府一個很重要的政策就是在中長城施政計畫裡面把僑委會過去"},{"start":7022.025,"end":7036.835,"text":"產息僑生專班跟海青班為基礎的這個部分,把它擴增僑外生的生源,希望增加三倍,然後檢討所有僑生的招生跟他留用的制度。"},{"start":7037.455,"end":7041.277,"text":"所以我們為了像這樣子的一個政策僑委會的資料也看到我們這個計劃期程是從112年到115年總經費高達36億2000萬這在僑委會算是不少的預算很大"},{"start":7052.822,"end":7057.065,"text":"那我們要辦理的這個計畫項目主要是希望可以培育生源、擴大招生還有在學輔導以及就業輔導這四個大的工作項目可是我們看到這個計畫裡面它當然其實可以解決國內的缺工又可以增進我們海外僑胞對台灣的認同然後又可以推廣我們很多的華語文這樣子我們一直在"},{"start":7081.839,"end":7091.625,"text":"推的這個項目等於說一舉多得可是教育是長期的工作我們現在看到我們以僑生專班為例從初期招生來源國的舉薦學生審核分發就學要經過7年其中3年是技高端就是我們所謂的高職還有另外4年的技專端就是我們所謂的科技長"},{"start":7107.974,"end":7126.665,"text":"特技大學那這個就習跟實習的訓練最後流台的就業人數才是檢驗我們這一筆預算他執行的成果所以政府在編列預算的時候是不是合理的支應我想我們可以來看一下有一些數據資料從過去105年因為是7年嘛所以我們用105學年招募的僑生他經過7年的時間到112年畢業"},{"start":7137.652,"end":7161.141,"text":"例子來看,從招募報名700多個學生到112年6月只剩下240個畢業留在臺灣,其實他大概只有三分之一那在108年到109年入學高中的部分,這個人數還算蠻高的,有2115位"},{"start":7164.978,"end":7165.519,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7181.929,"end":7184.953,"text":"不曉得為什麼僑委會有沒有掌握說僑生沒有完成這樣的學業就提早離開台灣這樣的原因到底是什麼因為我們在很多的不管講學金還有學雜費的補助各方面其實我們好像考慮的非常周到可是還是有高達30%的學生"},{"start":7202.252,"end":7204.334,"text":"在還沒有結束之前他就選擇離開台灣那這最後可能會造成的影響會比較多所以我們希望僑委會在這個優化的措施可以具體的去把它再做出詳細的一個規劃好不好因為我們在用的可是"},{"start":7222.822,"end":7238.391,"text":"在這裡因為時間的關係我們希望僑委會大概去優化這個部分因為他大概只剎三分之一或者有七年的時間可是他30%在不到的時間我們現在每一年都會追蹤學校從高職端開始就是說他從一年級其實最容易離開是一年級到二年級的時候因為他就是適應力的問題然後有些學生他說跟他原來想像有落差"},{"start":7251.059,"end":7252.7,"text":"所以我們在前期招生的時候一定要把資訊很清楚而完整的說明到位"},{"start":7280.919,"end":7281.079,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7298.477,"end":7303.503,"text":"僑委會合訂的保健單位來洽辦本席想要請教委員長僑生不可以自己去報名他產核專班嗎他來報的時候呢不是不可以那也是會由我們的僑務人員去做面試也就是說我們一定會有一個面試的過程那這個保健單位的"},{"start":7319.401,"end":7322.705,"text":"可是他說不可以因為我們接到的陳情他是不可以他希望我們推薦希望他去找我們推薦的保健單位接下來我要請教的因為時間的關係我先簡單的把我這個問題先講完就是說因為"},{"start":7336.741,"end":7340.663,"text":"在我們僑務委員會領選僑生回國就學保健單位要點第二點僑生回國就學的時候是以向我駐外使領館代表處辦事處或其他外交部授權的機構我們以下簡稱外管處然後申請為原則就是以上面這些地點為原則或這些單位"},{"start":7360.592,"end":7374.68,"text":"其他的我們的保健單位其實它是為府的可是我們現在把它顛倒過來變成除了這個保健單位保健的以外其他的都不行現在有這樣的問題是不是這樣委員長我想請你再去做詳細的了解跟調查因為我們看這個資料我們保健單位怎麼遴選出來的"},{"start":7384.545,"end":7401.977,"text":"我們這裡總共大概有8個國家東南亞國家、越南、馬來西亞、印尼、緬甸、泰國、菲律賓、柬埔寨還有寮國那像保健單位我們看到這個學生人數一直都居高不下的第一名是越南"},{"start":7402.978,"end":7412.63,"text":"他非常高在112學年度就有1200多人那其實最多的是印尼他有1600多人這兩個國家都是學生來台人數最多的"},{"start":7418.237,"end":7441.672,"text":"可是越南居然只有一個保健單位就這個單位他負責所有一千多人他不只一千多人因為他從107年度也是一千多一千多還有好幾百的這樣加起來他的人數總共六千多人就只有一個保健單位那馬來西亞他的人口數他的面積都非常大"},{"start":7442.352,"end":7443.053,"text":"委員長這是非常不合乎比例"},{"start":7458.627,"end":7462.808,"text":"的一個一個問題那到底為什麼這裡面是不是有一些不法我現在在這裡不希望用這樣子的態度先去設定可是他是不是有我希望委員長你們可以調查清楚如果應該讓他更公平更透明讓我們的政策可還尤其我們做的是教育如果這個部分是一個核心的原則我們應該怎麼樣讓利益不要在這裡把持"},{"start":7486.556,"end":7487.457,"text":"馬文青委員發言陳冠廷委員"},{"start":7527.602,"end":7530.303,"text":"委員長請教一下我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民包括有從"},{"start":7555.646,"end":7570.111,"text":"中華民國臺灣領過護照的人就我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑"},{"start":7571.651,"end":7574.572,"text":"所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的"},{"start":7600.157,"end":7601.68,"text":"外範圍然後才逐漸往外擴大所以雖然說號稱有這個五千萬的僑胞但事實上我們這個服務是有不同的這個這個親疏遠近的"},{"start":7612.435,"end":7629.538,"text":"那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣"},{"start":7630.259,"end":7642.008,"text":"有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針"},{"start":7643.383,"end":7653.649,"text":"其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織"},{"start":7665.456,"end":7672.803,"text":"所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦"},{"start":7683.553,"end":7684.233,"text":"臺僑社團的密集度是高很多跟我們長期在"},{"start":7711.741,"end":7737.191,"text":"密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作"},{"start":7738.26,"end":7762.839,"text":"委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後"},{"start":7763.619,"end":7781.18,"text":"對於中華人民共和國的認同其實是隨著時間是不斷的在下降那特別是在美國的話甚至是對這個認同甚至會有一些疑惑甚至有些是困擾因為剛好是因為中國跟委員報告台僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法"},{"start":7781.921,"end":7803.463,"text":"所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來"},{"start":7804.164,"end":7832.615,"text":"沒有的或者是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法"},{"start":7833.576,"end":7846.886,"text":"針對不同的做法其實對台灣當然是會有更好的幫助那其實我們之前有跟這個僑委會來去索資那我們看到的這個榮譽值的人數跟平均年齡的統計"},{"start":7849.76,"end":7863.894,"text":"對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看齁包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上"},{"start":7866.676,"end":7894.668,"text":"僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會"},{"start":7895.808,"end":7895.828,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":7925.848,"end":7926.108,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7951.459,"end":7976.664,"text":"確實﹖"},{"start":7977.024,"end":7998.625,"text":"委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看"},{"start":8000.495,"end":8001.295,"text":"特別在東南亞這個是針對馬來西亞的華裔人口的統計"},{"start":8010.778,"end":8029.493,"text":"我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分這包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法"},{"start":8032.46,"end":8047.459,"text":"委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家"},{"start":8050.842,"end":8071.837,"text":"對這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家"},{"start":8074.759,"end":8094.453,"text":"他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這一些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法"},{"start":8095.273,"end":8100.835,"text":"委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯"},{"start":8121.763,"end":8124.145,"text":"中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞"},{"start":8140.493,"end":8153.501,"text":"他相對的這個華裔人口裡面認同度是高的可是這20年來中國是用大量的金錢去馬來西亞去砸所以這當中也發生一些趨勢上的變化那我們現在也現在隨著這個經濟局勢的轉變我們也希望說能夠再扭轉回來"},{"start":8158.227,"end":8177.274,"text":"謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的"},{"start":8177.762,"end":8191.302,"text":"所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面"},{"start":8193.805,"end":8222.447,"text":"哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的"},{"start":8222.987,"end":8238.493,"text":"因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化所以說他們可能"},{"start":8239.133,"end":8240.094,"text":"接下來請徐巧信委員上台質詢"},{"start":8273.915,"end":8276.698,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請徐委員長徐委員早安早安 首先呢 想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經接受到賴準總統這樣子的一個通知了"},{"start":8298.736,"end":8316.964,"text":"呃我們接受呃隔魁新任隔魁的通知是還沒有還沒有齁但是機會應該蠻高但如果有問你的話你的態度有改變了嗎會留下來繼續如果有徵詢你的意見的話那你會改變你的態度認為說可以留在僑委會繼續的做這樣的工作嗎"},{"start":8317.244,"end":8344.813,"text":"我想過去這3年多快4年的時間我跟僑委會同仁除了很有感情以外我跟全球的僑胞感情也很深所以是有這樣子的意願如果有被徵詢的話嘛對不對然後各位我們委員立法委員也都很支持我們的僑務工作所以我是很願意繼續來為大家服務好那也希望你的工作能夠越做越好喔但是我們要問一個跟工作有關的事情就520要到了嘛"},{"start":8345.313,"end":8349.274,"text":"4月2日,僑委會臉書上發佈了邀請海外僑胞回國參加就職典禮的活動的圖片和文案後續也有很多駐外館、僑教中心或海外華人報章轉載上面寫的是僑委會發佈的官方網站"},{"start":8369.281,"end":8391.592,"text":"美德恰琳來做客第16任的總統副總統就職慶典活動那520 521我們也都很歡迎海外同胞能夠共同的來參與我想這個心情是一樣的但是不曉得徐委員長有沒有感覺到在這個文宣上面少了一個什麼樣的一個東西或者是一個蠻必要的細節"},{"start":8395.038,"end":8413.477,"text":"我想大概是國旗吧那我們在我們的這個僑委會的logo裡面第一個就是國旗了小到我真的是看不到我當然知道那是僑委會的logo裡面有一個國旗但是那個小到我真是我真是看是看不太到那我相信很多的僑胞也看不到"},{"start":8414.398,"end":8423.808,"text":"其實是有一些僑胞他們就有來反應他們覺得呢能夠來參加這樣子的一個盛會的話那是很好的一件事也很開心這個我們的僑委會對他們有做這樣的邀請可是呢他覺得我們在中華民國的總統副總統的就職慶典活動"},{"start":8432.777,"end":8460.94,"text":"也希望能夠看到中華民國的國旗這樣子的象徵如果有的話對於邀請他們來他們一定會覺得感受是更好的比方說像我們這個總統府的這個圖像上面有一個國旗但看不出是什麼旗幟人家如果不了解還以為五星旗這個都太紅了嘛我們這跟人家是應該是差別很大的所以說是不是在設計上面比方說你們已經有放了一個總統府的元素上面插了一隻旗子的話"},{"start":8461.661,"end":8486.798,"text":"那是不是最最最最最起碼我已經退五萬步來說至少內面國旗要是中華民國的國旗而不是擺一個好像就是說我們玩遊戲的時候紅旗白旗黃旗的紅旗我覺得這個部分是應該要有所修正的是不太妥適的所以當然您剛也說明了有看到很小很小的國旗在那個地方可是我們既然這個圖像很明顯的是我們的總統府那我們的總統府這個確實是設計不當的地方"},{"start":8491.101,"end":8500.534,"text":"所以這個部分是不是能夠做一些的調整因為我們來看一下其他的過去的時候我們的僑委會就都有做到不管是在112年110年雖然這個也是比較小一些的然後呢在109年"},{"start":8506.201,"end":8528.536,"text":"所以我們調出了10910112年的國慶的慶典活動其實我們僑委會並不是要去避開這些國旗的過去都曾經有這個元素可是可能今年在整個準備設計上面那有疏漏的地方那我們希望回到上一章我們希望能夠去做一些修正最起碼是已經有總統府的意向了"},{"start":8529.036,"end":8529.356,"text":"中華民國民主盛事"},{"start":8545.392,"end":8563.551,"text":"臺積電現在到美國日本來設廠共通性都在於招募了大量的本國及員工到當地去就業這是很好的事情但是先前僑委會說要評估在鳳凰城設僑教中心我想要請問一下後續的進度是如何的"},{"start":8565.333,"end":8594.893,"text":"跟委員說明我們目前在南加州有設兩個僑教中心一個設在洛杉磯一個設在成郡那這兩個都基本上是因為我們僑胞的人數非常非常的多所以而設置那目前鳳凰城的僑胞人數還沒有到一個高點但是不排除未來評估是會增加一些"},{"start":8595.813,"end":8606.321,"text":"所以要設喬教中心的話我們會要到某一種人數額度以上那但是我們這個必須要有前置的這些規劃還有預算的評估等等的作業所以這可能要在好幾年之後的事情但是我們會思考就是說因為確實整條產業鏈如果未來真的都去進駐現在是只有台積電在設廠嘛產業鏈還沒有跟著去那所以確實在未來5到10年間"},{"start":8625.034,"end":8631.939,"text":"如果整個台積電周邊的產業鏈各種企業一起前進的話那數量上確實是會有很多的增加那我們也會在那個數量的變化當中密切地來評估說如果要再多增設一個僑教中心那我們要去租場地要再派駐員額的時候要怎麼樣來做調整那我們未來會來做這個今年度的這個評估報告的時候把它清楚地劃進去"},{"start":8654.855,"end":8661.399,"text":"請問我們評估應該會做一個評估的報告來分析說那未來我們大概幾年之內要做考量人數從現在目前是多少那到多少之後可能要開始啟動請問這樣子的一個評估的報告或是說明在今年度會出來嗎在什麼時候會有比較具體的一個說明"},{"start":8685.556,"end":8690.702,"text":"跟委員報告因為之前確實台積電在設廠進度上有一點點延遲所以配合的這個相關產業鏈好像也會有觀望的狀況"},{"start":8700.254,"end":8708.157,"text":"這也是為什麼我們在這件事情上也稍微厚助一下但是如果現在美方對於台積電的補助案各項的進度都一直在往前推的時候我們也會願意在今年的這個時間點裡面可能是下半年我們會請我們的同仁呢就近收集更多的這個僑民的人數資料以及可能的會往"},{"start":8727.463,"end":8730.964,"text":"請問除了我們在臺積電到美國鳳凰城設廠之外現在大家也很關心的是到日本的熊本那在日本熊本的部分的設廠我們有沒有考慮規劃評估設僑教中心"},{"start":8756.052,"end":8759.335,"text":"跟委員報告僑教中心的設置到目前為止全球16個它的成本真的非常高那以我們僑委會的預算結構事實上是非常的緊迫那這個都是早期已經有採購了那以我們現在的狀況要買要租都非常非常困難"},{"start":8776.646,"end":8792.258,"text":"即便是我們在日本我們也只有派兩個僑務秘書分別進駐東京以及大阪的住處那一個在關東一個在關西關西的就要就近協助九州的部分那關東的部分呢要往上去到北海道所以我們是在這種很緊迫的狀況之下暫時不太有可能說特別派一個秘書去到九州"},{"start":8803.587,"end":8806.03,"text":"但是我相信我們在福岡的辦事處他們會有一位外交同仁一定會多協助跟我們同仁在大阪的部分加強去那邊做移動式的服務這樣子"},{"start":8819.667,"end":8837.615,"text":"好那所以說在這個部分希望不管是在美國鳳凰城或者在熊本那都是因為台積電的設廠那以至於我們有很多的台灣人都到這些地方去那我們就希望說僑委會在提供相關的照顧上面能夠做得更好然後提供他們應該要有的這個相關協助"},{"start":8838.715,"end":8866.617,"text":"那如果有一天人數夠多的時候去設立這樣的喬教中心也可以讓他們的小朋友啊等等他們這些需求能夠被滿足所以就希望我們後續再持續的來做評估那關心這些事情好嗎好謝謝也拜託委員多支持我們的預算我們的台積電很辛苦然後到那邊去工作的同仁也很辛苦我們都會一起支持產業好的發展我們也會必要跟台積電先詢問有沒有需要我們提供些什麼樣的內容好的這很重要謝謝"},{"start":8868.578,"end":8872.242,"text":"好謝謝徐委員謝謝徐委員的發言接下來請麥玉珍委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請委員長請委員長"},{"start":8898.96,"end":8901.562,"text":"曼委員你好好久不見很高興見到你我們國際交易現在就是實施相關的法規分於各部會不論是招生的制度還是漲卸金的發放有很多的重疊的情況的發生造成有多頭馬車的現象先以僑生漲卸金發放的部分來說好了僑委會跟"},{"start":8928.041,"end":8932.664,"text":"教育部都有涉於漲卸金還有這兩則有沒有排級的效應也可能申請到A又不能申請到B這樣的話還是可以重複申請再來僑生來台就是就寫管道如果要參加海外聯合招生找教育部如果要自行回國申請的話就找僑委會我覺得"},{"start":8957.522,"end":8974.312,"text":"僑生在海外求學就很辛苦但是我們要辦的東西就是跑來跑去就不同的部會不同的部門所以委員長認為這些的散落在各部會相關的資源和法規如何整合"},{"start":8975.761,"end":9000.443,"text":"跟委員報告因為雖然我們有外交部教育部跟僑委會不同的獎學金但是這個獎學金的對象是不一樣的以外交部來說他的獎學金不是給僑生都是給外籍學生就是其他世界各國的外籍人士教育部的獎學金裡面絕大多數也是走這個方向"},{"start":9002.044,"end":9026.144,"text":"只有僑委會是針對僑生給獎學金那所以如果僑生真的要拿高額獎學金的申請高額獎學金的那就只有針對我們僑委會而已那其他的兩個外交部跟這個教育部事實上都是給外籍人士但是我知道這裡面會有一個差異性存在是因為我們有些僑生事實上他也具有外國的"},{"start":9027.065,"end":9027.785,"text":"如果你是要走來台灣用華語的教學路線的"},{"start":9042.332,"end":9063.637,"text":"那我們就建議你就跟僑委會來申請那用我們的獎學金那如果你是要走外籍生的路線的我們就不管你的這個身份是什麼你說外籍生的路線的那你就考慮跟教育部或外交部去申請那所以他要先確定他是屬於哪一種類別所以他只會有一個方向申請不會說他同時申請外交部又可以申請僑委會 不會我們公務部門不會讓這個兩個東西同時並行"},{"start":9070.759,"end":9071.279,"text":"因為每個僑生來台灣都不是台灣人,又不同國家的人"},{"start":9095.086,"end":9098.77,"text":"所以說這種亂象還有就是要去爭取的這邊程式沒有一個整合所以大家報告對確實您指示的非常方向是正確我們也顧慮到這一點說來自各國的學生他的資訊一定要有非常清楚而且非常充分他才能夠了解內容所以以我僑委會來講"},{"start":9119.83,"end":9141.397,"text":"我雖然說是用華語為核心可是事實上在執行面上我這幾年下來我們已經用多語的如果去到越南我一定是用粵語加上華語並行兩種語言去到柬埔寨就是柬埔寨語跟華語去到菲律賓我們就是英語跟"},{"start":9142.757,"end":9164.63,"text":"到印尼我們就是用印尼語跟華語所以不管是我們的海報單張或者是我們的影片我們都會做到這個程度那甚至我們也會找僑生來協助我們做一些錄音用當地的語言來解釋這樣子的話家長老師學生他才會比較清楚可以了解"},{"start":9165.35,"end":9171.395,"text":"好 謝謝所以因為在全國各大產業就是都在缺工但是呢因為低薪就是導致少子化但是我們現在就是產業發展的失衡等等所以造成很大的缺工但是各個部分各部門在台灣的就是招生的部分的話就是像半導體啊資訊安全還有綠能等"},{"start":9191.932,"end":9192.132,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9217.779,"end":9217.879,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":9232.756,"end":9236.119,"text":"開會的協調就是說雖然我們國內缺工產業裡面我們都優先評估那比方說我們前年本來一度服務業的部分我們就不再招生了包括餐飲、觀光旅館、烘焙等等"},{"start":9252.935,"end":9274.342,"text":"本來沒有了可是去年開始我們積極的說其實我們這方面真的很需要所以我們又恢復開始招生所以類似這樣我們都是用動態性的去管理隨時跟經濟部跟勞動部我們都保持聯動的關係知道說在市場上面目前哪些業別可能他的需求量會比較高"},{"start":9276.703,"end":9285.45,"text":"我是希望因為我這次有回去越南跟我們的外交部有在座談所以我覺得說我們是招生產業但是沒有一個部會沒有一個專門就是為留產因為我們花很多錢來去找很多學生來台灣我們在越南來台灣已經有3萬"},{"start":9300.301,"end":9308.084,"text":"將近3萬人了但是呢就是限於不同的產業所以也沒有一個部會來專門其實把我們這個僑生畢業後要轉介到各個部會所以就沒有一個部會也沒有一個就業的機制讓我們的僑生留產因為我們變成我們花很多錢讓很多不同國家的學生來我們台灣我們要"},{"start":9325.23,"end":9325.33,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9342.267,"end":9342.427,"text":"委員長徐佳青"},{"start":9363.336,"end":9367.118,"text":"我了解麥委員的關心跟對我們的期許我們僑務委員會會加強我們去年開始就辦僑生就業博覽會本來只有在北部廠的這個相關企業我們今年又擴大全國北部南部都有然後也北中南東我們都去辦說明會希望我們就是把它建立一個完善的服務網路啦協助我們的僑生就業就像我們要重點的就業的部會這樣子好謝謝您謝謝"},{"start":9395.413,"end":9395.433,"text":"請委員長"},{"start":9425.12,"end":9446.656,"text":"養委員你好委員長恭喜你喔謝謝繼續留任那這個公布當中呢我們看到女性啊現在有公布的只有兩個對不對我們的這個副院長鄭麗君小姐還有內政部的劉思芳小姐"},{"start":9448.493,"end":9465.889,"text":"這個占比只有13.3%,跟當時在選舉的時候準總統說的9月27日他在臺灣女董事協會論壇上面提以內閣女性三分之一以上作為目標的政見"},{"start":9467.25,"end":9469.211,"text":"那承諾似乎還有很大的空間。"},{"start":9484.735,"end":9511.632,"text":"但是我在心裡面我是跟委員一樣我們都期許因為我們這是一個社會進步的國家我們在國會有超過4成以上的女性國會議員大家表現非常傑出立法院你看率先了是在全世界都是非常好的一個表現他還往上升了是的那這個也就是行動創新的內閣他沒有辦法去展現臺灣社會的多元性"},{"start":9512.572,"end":9532.907,"text":"那你在僑委會方面本身要請教你怎麼樣增進海外僑胞對國家的認同僑委會對新內閣你到底就這一點公開的訊息應該是達不到啦三分之一啦所以如果除非就是未來還有一個但書啦"},{"start":9535.517,"end":9556.093,"text":"委員因為我們現在只有到第三波公佈還有後面我相信還有第四第五第六波你對賴準總統認為三分之一的目標你還是會達成嗎我相信賴準總統是很有用心想要達到這個目標你相信怎麼樣不是你可以決定的決定你的僑委會你僑委會對新內閣你有什麼期待跟目標"},{"start":9560.196,"end":9560.376,"text":"那請賴準總統跟你學習啊"},{"start":9582.554,"end":9591.766,"text":"我們是有時間持續的這樣子一步一步往前進所以我們也會繼續在未來的時間裡面努力希望可以像國會一樣破四層但是你希望新內閣給你有什麼目標"},{"start":9597.393,"end":9602.657,"text":"我想這一次的行動創新內閣就是希望我們所有的部會閣員大家能夠站在服務人民的第一線立場隨時保持機動性就是active然後也要用創新的思維innovative的概念來做政策的規劃跟服務所以我們也長期有跟我們同仁做溝通怎麼樣在雖然僑委會是一個90多年的部會"},{"start":9625.876,"end":9647.279,"text":"相對來講是年紀很大了可是我們應該要表現出來的活力是應該隨時都不受年齡限制是現在這個新內閣他喊出的那接下來本校請問你在第16任的這個總統跟副總統的這個就職典禮當中在一個月就要執行了"},{"start":9648.24,"end":9676.753,"text":"那世界各國有很多的這個慶賀團來那目前他說有40個海外的團體會來大概有400位的這個外賓包括友邦的元首我們都大家很期待那你僑委會呢你的僑民呢你目前為止有分兩個階段5月10號之前以及4月30僑校的這個部分要去報名你覺得我們的這個會有多少人回來呢"},{"start":9677.533,"end":9686.281,"text":"我們從4月上旬開始公布這個報名的系統以後呢到目前已經報名了500位報到5月10號那我們今年的評估是以這個座位區的規劃我們是以1500到1700這個額度當作我們的這個"},{"start":9702.116,"end":9704.378,"text":"本期要告訴你,如果現在回來,那10月份的國慶慶典也是非常重要"},{"start":9724.477,"end":9737.956,"text":"所以你的誘因要好好去做好溝通好我們總是希望國家有生日有這個慶典那我們的這個對十月份的時候我們會安排更好的這個旅遊行程或什麼這個是"},{"start":9739.335,"end":9754.225,"text":"我們要超前去部署我們希望大家一起同歡同樂享受國家這是我們必須要努力的再來最後一個議題我們針對愛喬卡上次本席有跟你討論過那你們三年的目標是多少呢20萬張20萬張現在多少張呢"},{"start":9756.547,"end":9782.574,"text":"已經破6萬張了現在6萬張所以差距還有等於是三倍委員我們在從上一次楊委員的關心之下我們其實進步都很快每一個禮拜我們都會增加1000張以上針對本席的提問因為差距還有兩倍多差距要怎麼去精進呢委員我們一年可以達到6萬張告訴你一年6萬張所以你三年還達不到你的20萬張"},{"start":9783.934,"end":9784.775,"text":"所以我們實際討論海外的僑胞人數超過200萬對不對對"},{"start":9799.431,"end":9824.318,"text":"臺僑人數超過200那你要怎麼樣去做數據的一個統計來提供給我們的僑胞更加配合、切合他們需要的這個服務同時為什麼你妹妹去察覺你的目標你很高興的告訴我一年有6萬6萬6乘以3等於18你等於肉氣自己你達不到你的KPI20萬張所以你應該要去好好去詳實"},{"start":9825.498,"end":9846.659,"text":"我要怎麼樣讓治安讓我們的僑胞放心你這個卡沒問題你要怎麼樣去連結大數據去調查哪一些的項目是我們僑胞需要的你才可能達到你的20萬碼你連最基本的設定都達不到你怎麼會笑得出來要是我我是笑不出來"},{"start":9848.271,"end":9868.296,"text":"委員我之所以會定20萬是第一個208萬的僑胞以十分之一這樣子的一個比例我會計算數字我會計算然後第二個是說我告訴你是說你今天自己制定的目標你都預估達不到你要怎麼去精進告訴我方法"},{"start":9868.877,"end":9870.519,"text":"委員長你是我蠻敬佩的女性"},{"start":9887.12,"end":9904.732,"text":"如果說你依照目前為止,我已經告訴你答案了,一年6萬,三年18萬,你的目標20萬已經達不到,如果你只有依照目前的方案,你根本達不到。所以本行要告訴你的是,你去討論,去精進,怎麼樣可以達得到200多萬,"},{"start":9906.593,"end":9906.613,"text":"謝謝,謝謝楊委員"},{"start":9933.157,"end":9935.419,"text":"主席好,有請委員長請委員長"},{"start":9958.905,"end":9986.886,"text":"林委員你好你好孔子學院是由中國主導披著推廣漢語漢學的外表實際上是對世界各國進行政治的滲透還有文化統戰問題機構近年來西方民主的國家已經陸續的意識到孔子學院的問題表面上它是中文學習中心但實際上中國卻是利用孔子學院趁機宣傳中共史觀"},{"start":9987.907,"end":9988.167,"text":"委員長,您有同意嗎?"},{"start":10005.621,"end":10006.702,"text":"中共的孔子學院經過那麼多年在全球的擴張搞了那麼多年在國外有哪一些爭議呢?"},{"start":10026.107,"end":10030.389,"text":"這個爭議當然很多包括說他們企圖影響這些高等教育的研究方向那麼企圖要讓某些學者產出對他們有利的言論那甚至也會在華語教學當中誤導學生那但是在民主自由社會的學生他們反應也很直接他們會說這個孔子學院所提供的教材都是那種比較威權的國家"},{"start":10055.663,"end":10079.955,"text":"思維所以以我去年去了一趟波蘭的時候跟一位在當地教書的大學教授在座談的時候他就跟我直接說其實台灣很有市場我們趕快把我們的華語文的這個教材提供給他們因為他們當地的大學生對於中國方面所提供的教材是非常反感他們覺得在那邊學習不符他們的需求"},{"start":10082.276,"end":10085.138,"text":"所以也因為這樣子我去年開始就回來把這個我們的華語教材改成是雙語版有包括華語加上波蘭語、斯拉夫語做成這個新的版本然後能夠送去讓他們有興趣想要學習的大學生或者是我們一般的成人都能夠有可進性想學華語的時候比較快速"},{"start":10106.669,"end":10116.393,"text":"當然我們編轉的這些教材都是比較符合當地的風土民情、文化價值跟自由民主的這種概念的"},{"start":10119.062,"end":10134.981,"text":"那這樣的話就是照剛才委員長所說的那西方國家近幾年就是開始抵制孔子學院了對不對所以相對的話導致各地的孔子學院大量的關閉那請問委員長僑務會有沒有掌握目前中國的孔子學院大約是關閉了多少個呢"},{"start":10136.603,"end":10158.338,"text":"根據我的這個數字的累積在美國呢九成以上已經都被shut down了但是有一些將近一成的他們是換了一個名字但是還是存在在那裡所以這件事情也開始有引起部分的這個大學的注意說他們會不會換湯不換藥只是假裝換一個名稱所以這種情形在美國我們有注意觀察到"},{"start":10166.423,"end":10182.055,"text":"在歐洲也有部分國家那像日前英國的這個調查報告裡面就特別提到這件事情所以歐洲國家也關閉了非常多也差不多是近九成都被退場了那中國現在這種孔子學院還能夠比較"},{"start":10183.516,"end":10206.025,"text":"敢明顯聲張的只有在亞洲部分國家而已所以現在歐美國家他們都是變得比較低調而且都刻意換名稱不敢再叫孔子學院但是可以理解的是說中國政府的這個系統他們還是沒有放棄一直持續的還是在積極運作中所以也因為這樣我講我們僑委會也都很積極的在關注這些狀況"},{"start":10209.787,"end":10211.929,"text":"據委員長這樣說我國在海外有設立華語文學習中心現在也是擴張得非常快速據本席了解其實資數量是不足的"},{"start":10224.844,"end":10225.664,"text":"請問僑委會有什麼積極解決還有推展的合作計畫呢?"},{"start":10246.036,"end":10267.507,"text":"委員所指教的確實是我們現在很大的挑戰因為我們海外的僑民在近20年來人口呢實是有點停滯了沒有再增加太多所以早期很多留學生像我自己當過留學生的時候我就去做僑校的老師那近年來因為留學生的數量減少所以師資確實也是有"},{"start":10269.368,"end":10274.272,"text":"進補上面的不足那我們現在是用既有這個僑校的老師給他們做專業的訓練就是說他們本來教的是小學生可是現在因為華語文學習中心要教的是成人所以我們就開比較多的進修的課程"},{"start":10287.421,"end":10290.043,"text":"這進修的課程一方面是用線上的然後也有派我們國內的學者跟教授去做巡迴的研討會協助這些有心要轉型做教成人的教師讓這些師資可以進入這個市場那另外一方面我們也運用現代的科技就是說國內有很多的大專院校"},{"start":10311.141,"end":10315.244,"text":"那培養出一些師資那這些師資也用線上的這個課程的資源模式來提供我們在華語文學習中心所以我們現在的中心呢原則上一個禮拜要求是三個小時課程那這是兩個小時是要實體的上課一個小時可以是線上的上課"},{"start":10330.094,"end":10336.317,"text":"所以用這樣的方式來補充我們在師資資源上面的一個挹注所以這個效果其實還蠻不錯因為有些學生他會說我想要進階到什麼那我們就可以把它分眾化的處理有些人學得比較快 有人學得比較慢所以那一個小時的線上課程的時候就可以分級來做進行"},{"start":10352.225,"end":10356.947,"text":"所以還是針對失智不足的方面我記得過去的僑委會其實也有是跟當時的內政部的議政署爭取一些替代役名額到各校的僑校去服務但因為之前的義務役改成4個月轉服替代役也只有6個月所以想請教委員長最近僑委會會不會也比較少跟內政部的議政司爭取替代役元額呢"},{"start":10378.595,"end":10384.278,"text":"我們一直都有去做這個事情比較不是內政部這個議政署的問題是我們每一年都會上成功領去做宣傳然後看這些藝男有沒有個人的興趣那他們如果有個人的興趣的時候我們就邀請來做我們的替代役那因為簽替代役的時候他的時間就比較長"},{"start":10401.069,"end":10410.211,"text":"其實前後將近十個月不是只有六個月而已將近十個月那我們派出去到海外的僑校這種僑校也比較是全日制的僑校不是那種週末型補充教育的學校這個當然很受歡迎我們確實比方說我們派到菲律賓派到泰國派到日本"},{"start":10422.714,"end":10426.876,"text":"那很多僑效的之後都會跟我們說希望能夠再增加那我們也確實是很希望國內的這個華語系畢業的學生如果他們能夠這個在替代役的這個過程當中多做這個方面的"},{"start":10441.203,"end":10442.704,"text":"為了宣傳台灣自由民主的價值,爭取認同,所以擴大國家的軟實力,如果這個方案可行的話,可能請僑委會可以積極一點去規劃。"},{"start":10464.802,"end":10471.207,"text":"然後還有一個問題就是請教委員長協助僑胞回臺灣參加520政府總統就職典禮算不算是促進海外僑胞對國家的認同與支持呢是確實是很重要的所以僑委會有辦理歡迎海外僑胞回臺參加就職典禮的活動嘛對不對可是現在到目前為止現在有多少僑胞報名參加了呢今天到目前是已經870人了"},{"start":10490.945,"end":10509.1,"text":"因為從資訊上面露出開放報名到報名截止中間只有大概一個月的時間但是北席發現似乎有些辦事處還拖了兩個禮拜之後才公布訊息那想回國參加的人都措手不及那請問委員長我們一般訂機票要出國如果是要提前一個月的話時程上是不是太趕了那一般計畫大約也要兩三個月前就要開始訂機票了"},{"start":10517.407,"end":10521.99,"text":"然後你也知道其實從總統大選結束到下一任正副總統就職這個中間大概有四個月的時間那僑委會可以提早啟動計畫讓海外的僑胞提早知道這個訊息可以多兩個月的時間安排返台計畫不然我覺得"},{"start":10535.219,"end":10551.137,"text":"好像參加的人就是要時間很多很空閒的人才能報名參加520總統就職典禮這樣說一般上班的僑胞根本想要參加但是那麼短的時間內要把時間空閒出來再訂機票其實是非常緊迫的"},{"start":10552.315,"end":10559.22,"text":"確實我們有思考到這些狀況就是總統就職的典禮畢竟不像每一年的國慶慶典那我們過去的國慶慶典開放報名到截止報名的時間原則上大概都是三個禮拜到一個月之間那其實我們這個就職大典也是差不多比照這個規模那上一次的2016我們也是差不多是一個月報名時間所以"},{"start":10581.135,"end":10608.531,"text":"我想在海外有心想參加的大概已經心裡都有做一些準備而且有些人提前來問的時候我們也會跟他講大概怎麼樣但是只是說線上的報名系統我們一定要等籌備委員會開完我們才能夠正式上線但準備工作我們其實3月就已經都在準備所以有時候我們要考慮到很多還有某些的駐外辦事處或許有時候會有一些延遲公佈的訊息這些都要放進來考慮的"},{"start":10609.952,"end":10610.052,"text":"謝謝林委員"},{"start":10634.597,"end":10641.059,"text":"接下來請鄭正前委員鄭正前、鄭正前委員不在請洪森和委員上台質詢請委員長請委員長"},{"start":10666.614,"end":10694.87,"text":"委員你好委員長好從這幾年我們看了一下僑委會的預算裡面大家蠻清楚可以看到僑生的業務其實如果扣除一般的行政費用的話其實佔的整體優惠我目前看到的數字是佔了一半以上是的那所以這代表其實僑生來台的政策其實是我們非常非常重要的政策方案尤其是對僑委會裡面來說委員長同意嗎我同意好"},{"start":10695.971,"end":10713.948,"text":"所以委員長我們已經很看了這個書面的報告其實這個報告裡面也提到讓海外僑生來臺接受教育能促成他們更認識臺灣那甚至把好的人才留下來甚至回到僑居地以後那大概發展出更多的這個校友組織來把臺灣的這個"},{"start":10716.15,"end":10730.794,"text":"只有民主的價值這大概也是我們二軌外交上面很重要的奴隸但這個委員長要看一下監察院去年在12月的時候發布的一個調查報告裡面看到其實僑委會從103年開始擴大辦理的這個計劃103是2014年這個產學攜手合作僑生專班那這個畢業率跟留台率都相當偏低"},{"start":10745.017,"end":10773.004,"text":"那在目前這完成3加7年的僑生總共是110年但他們大概在110年到112年3年的狀況裡面陸續畢業但從這表格裡面可以看到其實畢業率跟留台率都不到五成甚至離五成是有很大一段距離而且我最擔心的事情是看起來這數字是逐年遞減而且遞減的幅度非常大這個委員長這個部分僑會會有提出原因嗎"},{"start":10774.166,"end":10785.071,"text":"有,我來了以後有認真的去看這些東西那監察院的這個報告我也很認真的去看了它是等於去年出來的報告是在更前一年的那事實上這個計畫從產息合作的專班是2014年就是103年開始當時是有事辦性質"},{"start":10793.394,"end":10807.639,"text":"所以人數並不是很多然後辦了三年就是開始這三年有畢業生出現了嘛那我們有觀察到就是說他們其實最容易離開的就是在高值端的時代"},{"start":10808.519,"end":10834.505,"text":"所以如果第一年第二年他們不穩定的時候離開你招生進來再多也沒有用所以我們現在是強化在這個高職端因為那時候可能學生的年紀也偏輕然後學校學生的輔導上面就需要給他們更多的援助所以我們現在有兩個措施在加強第一個措施呢通常適應不良的原因是第一個他的華語能力還不太夠"},{"start":10835.445,"end":10840.687,"text":"所以怎麼強化他在來台灣以前他的華語程度就可以補充增進那這樣的話他的溝通能力跟他的適應力就會強化這是第一個第二個呢是我們也要求學校就是說對於學生的這個生活照顧跟輔導上面不要讓學生覺得說很孤單沒有求助的這種狀況那還有一部分是就在最源頭學生就帶著錯誤的資訊進來了"},{"start":10864.918,"end":10881.895,"text":"這部分我確實不可諱言跟委員講委員長我看了一下這個數據尤其是112年畢業的這一梯幾乎只有四分之一畢業跟留台坦白說我覺得恐怕稱不上是一個成功的計畫甚至會被認為是一個失敗的計畫"},{"start":10885.157,"end":10905.95,"text":"在這個狀況之下我其實不想多做苛責也許它前面有一個事半的意義在但恐怕它這個不會是單一的原因尤其是當你的留台率跟畢業率幾乎都不到四分之一我相信這恐怕不是單一原因恐怕是很多原因甚至在計劃一開始設計之初就有一些事情沒弄對"},{"start":10906.51,"end":10911.612,"text":"不過我跟委員報告我們現在有在追蹤了就是說從106年開始的就2017年開始之後這些近來讀書的學生從3年的高職畢業端去接科技大學現在穩定度就高很多了"},{"start":10923.015,"end":10950.803,"text":"就是說他們不是在高職就離開我想先問委員長說在這個數據之下我們有沒有做相關的比較完整的調查就是他們的調查到底原因各自沒有辦法畢業沒有辦法留台最主要的原因或前三個對他們來講最有影響的原因是我們有沒有這個相關的調查有有有我們都有跟學校端說為什麼這個學生讀了一年兩年他就離開那這個調查可不可以也許這禮拜可以送到我們辦公室一份我們會把這個資料彙整原因的"},{"start":10952.223,"end":10978.395,"text":"這個探究的調查是以這個以這個績效來說這是必須一定需要一個完整的檢討的嗎這一沒有錯那我覺得這部分一定有一些量化的評估是包括量化的因素包括相關的問卷所以那這禮拜把這個他的這個會呈現這個數據的原因的這個調查報告其實可以給我們好不好好的這禮拜好不好好的好的委員你看一下如果他真的有畢業以後他的留台率其實是很接近的是"},{"start":10978.855,"end":10995.405,"text":"就比例上做起來就是到了就是等於說他畢業完留台就會高達九成的意思但是所以我們現在就是緊盯著說他為什麼在高值端就離開了所以第一個高值端他如果可以通過以後通常穩定度就很高因為他的適應力就增強了對所以我們現在都會緊盯著我們所有的高值端的這些狀況我們會把資料整理好給您因為這個僑生的業務占僑委會這麼大的比例"},{"start":11006.332,"end":11027.842,"text":"那這麼一個重要的政策卻呈現這個數據不過委員我們的預算增加比例是從去年才開始增加的對但是我知道對委員長來說你應該是會做很多的檢討那我覺得這個檢討包括可能會牽涉到需要一些跨部會的部分包括對教育部包括勞動部的部分那我覺得我希望看到具體的數據跟到底這個"},{"start":11030.143,"end":11041.228,"text":"因素的分析下面那到底才比較能夠給出一個完整的要方那第二個是我接下來想跟委員長這邊請教我們其實在這個2019的遠見的雜誌裡面看到一個報導這報導裡面講到其實這個隨著政府擴大僑生專班的招生那背後開始傳出有人力仲介的"},{"start":11053.933,"end":11054.634,"text":"我們也看到下一張"},{"start":11082.621,"end":11103.323,"text":"一部分的檢舉說僑委會領選而出來的這些保健單位來審核僑生資格的保健單位他已簽合每位學生100到200美元大概3000塊到6000塊台幣的行情來收所謂的咖啡錢委員長對於這些訊息你的看法是什麼"},{"start":11105.582,"end":11124.013,"text":"我們其實都有跟學校特別提醒就是說我們絕對禁絕有仲介介入那對於這個保健單位一旦被我們查到一個個案我們就會取消他的保健資格所以這一方面呢我們在"},{"start":11125.393,"end":11133.438,"text":"臨選保健單位的時候都要跟他們講得很清楚他們也要簽下切結書跟保證書所以我們如果在後端一旦有人來跟我們檢舉有這樣的個案的時候我們就跟他解約"},{"start":11136.331,"end":11160.439,"text":"委員長第一個我前面先講人力仲介的部分人力仲介的部分因為那是2019的新聞那如果你們有改善那也讓我們知道你們具體提出改善的做法是什麼怎麼杜絕這種不當的或非法的人力仲介他要拿出做法可能不是只是口頭警告而已那實際上面具體的做法是什麼"},{"start":11160.839,"end":11166.123,"text":"我們要多管齊下因為我們有去研究說為什麼這些仲介可以做出這些行為最主要的原因有兩項第一項就是說因為大部分的僑生跟家長或者外籍生他們由於語言的程度上面不足"},{"start":11180.373,"end":11208.167,"text":"無法了解我們這些方案真身的核心內容那這些仲介就有機會在這裡操作把不實的訊息給他們所以確實有僑生來台灣以後為什麼離職跟這個有一點關係就是說他以為他是來台灣工作的但事實上我們明明是讓他來讀書加上產學合作的實習那因為他資訊的錯誤他就會說我期待落差所以給我讀一年就離開他說我不是來工作嗎你怎麼叫我再需要讀"},{"start":11208.407,"end":11230.016,"text":"所以如果從剛剛那個新聞裡面可以看到的事情是假設我們按照那假設這新聞講的是真的是私校到海外招生生生地部手需要語言的幫忙照理來說這個需要語言的服務或者是語言人才的供給這是政府可以協助的地方因為私校要招生這件事情不是只是私校自己的問題是這也是一個國家的教育政策的問題正確"},{"start":11230.856,"end":11253.121,"text":"所以今天從政府的角度我們應該提供這些思效你要去海外招生的時候你的語言協助我們怎麼協助你你不用自己人生地不熟去找那邊的那邊的這個能夠提供你語言的服務變成他可以在這裡面操弄或中介這些資訊所以這是照理來說這應該是僑友會或者我們教育部其實應該跟他們討論說你們如果需要去海外招生的人才"},{"start":11253.681,"end":11273.252,"text":"需要語言人才的話政府可以協助你嘛包括你在各地的僑社或者是相關這些注點的單位可以協助的部分所以我們現在要主動表達嗎多管齊下我們多管齊下的做法有幾個以下第一個就是我們把所有的資訊呢做多語化的處理今天送到越南的一定有越南文跟華語並列還有英文至少有這樣子那到菲律賓我們也是英文華語到了印尼印尼文英文華語"},{"start":11282.918,"end":11306.254,"text":"到了柬埔寨、到了泰國、泰語、英語跟華語都是並列委員長我們希望你們可以提供給我們一個資訊跟報告就是說我們到底怎麼來協助這些我們國內的單位要到海外去攬財或者是要來招生的時候我們怎麼提供給他們我們相關的翻譯或者是語言的人才的協助這是第一個第二件事我必須說我看到這個咖啡錢的部分我自己會有一個擔心"},{"start":11307.635,"end":11320.868,"text":"擔心的點是什麼呢假如每一個審核他可以收錢的話其實如果從這些單位來說他可能覺得那我收越多越好甚至我找到一些不適合來台灣的我都可以收錢對不對"},{"start":11322.28,"end":11339.066,"text":"這其實會有一些道德風險喔沒有錯所以會不會也是因為其實變成是他們其實包括舉薦的一些其實不一定很適合的所以也變成你最後留台跟畢業率會降低因為他如果協助找了不適合的人來他可能覺得說我要來收前面的這筆咖啡錢"},{"start":11340.046,"end":11363.159,"text":"那你變成他不適合來到台灣以後你這個後面的畢業率跟留台率當然不會高嘛這前後之間其實可能會是有邏輯上面的關係的所以我覺得這部分要請僑委會非常非常重視注意說這件事是絕對不能發生因為這會有道德風險甚至會連動到你們事後畢業率留台率這些相關的績效也都會影響的事情啊"},{"start":11363.439,"end":11379.755,"text":"是 洪委員你這個提醒我非常同意因為2019年之前確實有好幾個案例所以這幾年我們都很非常緊密的在監視這些事情然後包括我們對保健單位只能說他們只能收最多20塊錢的美金是做什麼呢因為他們要幫他們郵寄資料有一些郵資費用"},{"start":11386.521,"end":11398.505,"text":"那或者他們要幫他們申請表格有一些印刷費用除此之外他們不可以收其他任何的費用所以我們的保健單位我自己都親自run了一圈跟他們做說明會的時候就特別強調這些事情那絕大多數保健單位我必須說他們是真的是熱心在幫忙我們而且他們自己都很有錢"},{"start":11407.028,"end":11433.495,"text":"委員長我覺得是他今天在幫忙這個業務上面合理的成本我們該給他的就應該給他是讓他變成是合法的是而不是變成私下的非法的沒錯沒錯所以讓他的合法的支出能夠有能夠他獲得的方式我覺得這是合理的所以我們也會跟學生說你們最多就付20塊每天的公本費而已那他如果說需要什麼業務上面的協助的經費如果需要的話我覺得我們用預算編列來提供給他這是合法的我都贊成"},{"start":11434.195,"end":11434.495,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11456.058,"end":11468.872,"text":"這個委員長我跟你說不管是剛才說的人力仲介或這部分這樣子的佣金我們會特別關注那我們希望合法的收入可以讓這些協助我們單位他其實該付給他的就付給他該得到就得到這沒有問題"},{"start":11469.713,"end":11469.813,"text":"謝謝洪委員"},{"start":11500.212,"end":11513.44,"text":"這個部分可能沒有那麼簡單我想請委員長再去了解一下那個表面跟實際上在執行的時候是不是現在有問題我想這個很容易查得出來那接下來我們請邱志偉委員上台質詢"},{"start":11537.406,"end":11539.651,"text":"徐佳青委員長"},{"start":11547.68,"end":11573.605,"text":"委員長 邱委員你好你好今天的主題是如何爭取僑界認同支持相關的具體做法你提出六項具體的做法我們一項一項來做討論快速傳播正面新聞行銷台灣優質形象何謂台灣優質形象我個人認為第一個你要讓這個全世界知道台灣是一個友善安全"},{"start":11575.049,"end":11578.872,"text":"臺灣是半導體產業的核心國是 確實 半導體 這個很多人說臺灣corrupt the world stop 你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":11604.475,"end":11632.727,"text":"臺灣做了世界的天堂代表說半導體這個產業臺灣具有核心關鍵地位所以你要去傳播正面形象要有具體的這個具體的這個slogan或者具體的內涵我們是民主自由模範國我們是這個安全又友善的這個幸福國我們是產業界經濟在半導體的核心國"},{"start":11634.137,"end":11645.062,"text":"這樣子才能知道台灣的優質形象在哪裡而不是很空泛的你要通令所有駐外管處的僑務組你行銷的時候就要行銷這些具體的內容"},{"start":11646.36,"end":11652.262,"text":"委員長您同意嗎?我很同意跟委員報告我們都定期針對國際的評比我們會廣泛收集訊息然後一旦有公佈評比報告的時候我們就馬上會去做圖卡然後就會把它傳到我們所有的社群通路以及我們的電子報我講這三點你也可以認同我想在場所有人都可以認同對不對?國際社會都可以同意嘛是的"},{"start":11672.848,"end":11693.486,"text":"來台灣第一個台灣的友善台灣的都很安全對不對自然又好是那但是我們政府就是說我們還是用客觀的資料所以我們一般來說我們都會用國際評比那這個是客觀的那個相輔相成是但是我們要對外行銷我們自己台灣的優點在哪裡你要很清楚台灣的優點在哪裡競爭強項在哪裡是撼動世界新的這個這個這個關鍵的因素是什麼"},{"start":11700.012,"end":11724.244,"text":"是這樣子大家才能感同身受啊進而還有第一個認同台灣第一個想要來台灣嗯看看是不是一個自由民主的模範國是不是安全又友善的國對不對看看半導體產業的發展是第二個善用僑社的這個網絡積極為台發聲僑社要去串聯代表處的僑務人力要增加是"},{"start":11725.642,"end":11725.662,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":11742.276,"end":11760.892,"text":"因為我們在那邊投資當然對為他們國家帶來經濟上的利益也沒有錯嘛對所以你要善用僑社的力量去協助政府遇到相關的阻撓或者刁難或者中國因素的這個不友善因素的時候我們透過僑社的力量去解決去協助"},{"start":11761.873,"end":11772.083,"text":"除了越南之外在東西的國家有哪些你會覺得會被中國的因素影響最大讓你會變成入境困難的還有除了越南之外還有哪些國家"},{"start":11773.715,"end":11790.767,"text":"因為越南是共產體制國家所以相對是困難那其他有軍政府的國家也會相對不是那麼穩定但是我很高興去年我有去了柬埔寨我有拿到正式簽證所以這幾年我們都有在觀察那個突破緬甸也是我今年想要尋求突破的地方"},{"start":11799.953,"end":11803.115,"text":"末斯哥的還在我知道啦 有僑委會嘛"},{"start":11827.901,"end":11850.057,"text":"沒有僑委會在俄羅斯有台商但是近年來因為這個國際局勢的關係台商也暫時都遠避所以就是你覺得越困難你就要去突破是那台灣這個在國際處境是需要各部位不管是經濟部外交部僑委會大家的同力合作加上僑團的力量是"},{"start":11850.777,"end":11870.592,"text":"所以我們對這個代表處的我們僑務組的人力要增加在外作戰的能量才能增加另外臺灣軟實力你這邊提到主要是這個華語文學習中心那你在主要是在美國跟歐洲"},{"start":11871.733,"end":11888.661,"text":"那除了華語之外你應該結合文化部包括藝術包括文化那結合這個教育部除了華語文教學之外還有這個體育這個都是台灣的實力啊是的所以台灣的這個山派"},{"start":11890.523,"end":11894.284,"text":"文化展訪團也有這個文化種子的老師的這些培訓都有你要跨部會的合作我剛剛說的文化部教育部"},{"start":11920.213,"end":11921.354,"text":"臺商這個經貿網絡臺商這個六大洲臺商非常關鍵臺商要有認同感"},{"start":11944.904,"end":11954.629,"text":"要支持政府支持台灣當然絕大多數的台商都支持政府支持台灣沒有問題要多一點給他們資源比如說多一點僑務的榮譽紙讓這些曾經當過台商會會長的都是僑務的榮譽紙諮詢委員也好促進委員也好"},{"start":11966.434,"end":11992.713,"text":"另外你在僑務委員的名額 我也覺得應該要適度增加這不是你也沒有要多少預算只是這個增加讓他們多參與感我是希望委員這個因為是我們在立法院必須要修法才能夠我有提案的但是我都沒有在外交委員會如果來當召委我一定優先排案是我有看到過去委員的提案提了三屆的那我希望說如果"},{"start":11994.011,"end":12014.578,"text":"有朝委願意希望有朝委可以排啦好啦因為時間上的關係這個作為一個第4屆委員要遵守會議規則要這個會議的這個紀律時間到了就應該要聽質詢謝謝邱委員因為下一位還有人好感謝謝謝鼓勵謝謝邱委員"},{"start":12022.5,"end":12022.961,"text":"中嘉賓委員陳培宇上台質詢"},{"start":12042.161,"end":12062.378,"text":"委員長午安,我們就快速討論一下。不知道委員長有沒有在海外看過台灣代表隊的比賽?有曾經看過。那其實我相信委員長你一定非常清楚,其實不管是所謂奧運奪牌項目、亞運或者是非正式這些奪牌項目,其實很多台灣代表隊到海外去比賽都非常辛苦。"},{"start":12063.858,"end":12083.368,"text":"從時務到時差其實都有很多需要克服的而且幾乎每天都有不同的隊伍到海外參加各式各樣的比賽但是如果我們來問這些選手說你們在海外比賽過程當中除了克服這些辛苦然後努力得到獎牌之外讓他們最有感覺是什麼他們通常都會回答如果場邊有我們的僑民為他們加油打氣哇 那個感覺一定很棒對不對是的 對"},{"start":12088.05,"end":12090.894,"text":"這兩張照片跟委員長分享那其實呢我們台灣代表隊在海外比賽的時候僑民主動的參與真的很令人感動可是尤其是如果在對戰非主場國家非主場國家可是我們的僑民進場加油那個加油的聲音那個爆亮的聲音會讓我們客場變主場其實我們的選手會更"},{"start":12106.713,"end":12120.234,"text":"更努力的然後更有感覺那不知道這個部分你覺得僑委會有沒有機會可以做更多事情因為其實事實上在蔡英文總統任內確實僑委會在這件事情上也做了很多但是後續有沒有機會我們可以做更多的精進我們來看一下"},{"start":12122.094,"end":12142.704,"text":"這些照片裡面對代表隊的支援其實也是僑委會跟外管有串聯海外僑胞的時間點那其實每一個代表隊到不同的國家有沒有機會讓僑民更加強化跟台灣的連結那其實我們自己知道很多運動代表隊到了海外可能常常會產生很多臨時的需求其實也都不需要靠當地的僑胞給予支持跟支援"},{"start":12143.644,"end":12148.286,"text":"想要請教一下委員長您覺得在你接下來任期裡面有沒有機會可以像外館一樣做更多積極的協助給這些代表隊我們如果知道有些已經排定的大型比賽那我們都提前會跟僑團說是不是大家可以提早我們有些僑團還非常非常熱情還說願意讓這些比賽的隊伍在結束以後可以有一日遊或者是"},{"start":12171.834,"end":12172.134,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12190.911,"end":12195.794,"text":"他們開始在準備說到今年7月的時候我們有很多代表的選手去到巴黎的時候除了我們代表處對他們有照顧跟歡迎以外呢那我們的僑界呢也大家必須要輪流因為這個奧運比賽的項目是非常非常的多那由我們選手的時候呢希望場邊都有我們的僑胞能夠去給他們加油打氣那我們來舉一個小小的例子可愛的小例子我們來看一下下一頁"},{"start":12221.432,"end":12233.962,"text":"委員長有沒有看過其實各式各樣的國家很可愛很漂亮很可愛對不對其實這個預算真的不多對不對是那如同您剛剛說你舉了巴黎奧運嘛那我剛剛其實還有說除了這些大型的比賽項目其實還有非常非常多有沒有機會來僑委會來設計這個這個加油棒然後因為真的預算不多有沒有機會讓我們從也許從今年巴黎奧運開始示範開始"},{"start":12243.531,"end":12265.07,"text":"可以,我們一般來說我們過去都是直接已經有採購的就是我們有很多小國旗手搖旗我知道有小國旗這種我們大概都會直接寄出去給僑團讓他馬上可以運用那加油棒我們是可以來跟僑團討論我們怎麼樣近年來有一些僑團很可愛他們就定期已經都採購了比方說有這個大型的布偶台灣黑熊"},{"start":12266.071,"end":12278.677,"text":"他們就會把他請到現場去然後在那個當中做一些這個互動那就是增加那個吸睛的效果那也許今年我們在巴黎奧運的這個準備之下我們可以看到這個國旗的logo在上面"},{"start":12282.039,"end":12283.179,"text":"提早知道運動賽事,我們也會協同體育署,希望他們可以更加積極把所有的訊息都通知給僑委會。"},{"start":12302.425,"end":12330.709,"text":"跟陳委員報告其實連同這個電競比賽我們也都很關心那些年輕學生他們去到這個海外做電競比賽的時候那這不一定是跟這個體委會有關聯的但是我們要只要我們注意到或者有時候是僑胞回過頭來會跟我們說我們有接到訊息了什麼什麼什麼要來像我最近就接到說北印尼的樂旗隊他們7月1號要去加拿大表演然後也希望我們可以協助做什麼"},{"start":12331.289,"end":12336.451,"text":"那只要我們在當地有僑團跟僑民我們都會協助說提前把這個資訊給他們那如果有表演或者是比賽的時候大家都可以去場邊給他們加油打氣甚至接待他們我時間有限還一分鐘不過先謝謝委員長剛剛那個部分非常正向的回應那我們辦公室也會持續再跟你們討論那接下來畫面中這對兄弟其實他是台美聯姻他們的母親是台灣人是赫丹赫伯兄弟那其中他們兄弟還有弟弟更入圍"},{"start":12361.178,"end":12387.833,"text":"美國媒體評比四星高中生今年入圍2024年麥當勞高中全明星賽的提名名單那他們是怎麼被發現的其實在熱心的球評跟球迷他們在看很多運動賽事的時候發現其實不是只有他們在足球界還有陳昌元這個優秀的台灣比利時聯英子弟那他們被發現之後呢其實我們來看我們到底橋友會可以做什麼其實在菲律賓泰國跟很多歐洲國家他們對於有血緣關係的球員"},{"start":12389.654,"end":12404.228,"text":"他們會納入很重要的國家運動政策發展的人才網絡項目之一不知道這個部分僑委會有沒有主動發掘人才的可能性就是關於這種聯姻的部分如果我們有相關這個僑界報給我們的資訊我們當然就會想要積極跟他們聯繫給他們做一些專題報導啦或者是人物的採訪啊"},{"start":12411.474,"end":12429.764,"text":"那不過因為主責單位來講就是說要有一些配合的專業人士跟預算來做執行但是僑委會可以扮演這個提供資訊角色的這種功能所以我剛剛這邊有建議啦就是快速的說完除了剛剛這個海外僑民為台灣代表隊加油第二個就是我們想要希望僑委會有沒有機會邀請體育署作為邀請入籍"},{"start":12432.005,"end":12433.046,"text":"臺灣的體育表現可以讓更多人看見"},{"start":12454.422,"end":12455.163,"text":"羅智強委員張家俊委員李坤澤委員"},{"start":12468.117,"end":12493.229,"text":"我們已經登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議由羅志強委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報請相關機關以書面與兩周內答覆本日委員口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者亦請相關單位以書面與兩周內提供委員令指定期限則從其鎖定"},{"start":12495.11,"end":12521.371,"text":"另外我們也請僑委會這邊可以準備一些相關的資料就是我們保健單位推薦來的這些學生目前在臺灣大概分配的學校有哪些就是這個高職就這近幾年好了近五年的好了就是在不管是高職"},{"start":12523.463,"end":12537.57,"text":"對對我們就從疫情可是我們都還是可是我們都還是有那個看我們的記錄上面其實他基本上都還是有過來那我們就這些人數的那個分配的學校高職跟大學2020現在幾年2024好好那"},{"start":12544.602,"end":12545.982,"text":"本日會議結束 散會"}]}},{"id":"15827","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15827","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea0a0e131ea932df62b761654f0ebe352d3be8d109af184be4ceca78f50bea7ab65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:31:15+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:56:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":15885,"委員發言時間":"08:31:15 - 12:56:00","影片長度":"04:24:45","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":582.9272187500001,"end":584.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":601.18596875,"end":602.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1826.7497187500003,"end":1829.6522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1830.7659687500002,"end":1834.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1834.9509687500001,"end":1838.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1838.00534375,"end":1838.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1839.5409687500003,"end":1839.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1839.55784375,"end":1843.7259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1843.92846875,"end":1852.6190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1852.8047187500001,"end":1858.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1860.53346875,"end":1860.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1860.5672187500002,"end":1861.0228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1861.0228437500002,"end":1862.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1862.7440937500003,"end":1873.3753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1876.0078437500001,"end":1877.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1879.4840937500003,"end":1882.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1883.1459687500003,"end":1885.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1885.7953437500003,"end":1891.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1894.8740937500002,"end":1900.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1902.4847187500002,"end":1905.1678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1907.0409687500003,"end":1910.9897187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1912.8965937500002,"end":1916.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1918.31346875,"end":1921.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1924.0678437500003,"end":1926.6834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1927.17284375,"end":1928.5228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1930.7334687500002,"end":1935.4078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1937.3822187500002,"end":1940.7572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1942.4615937500002,"end":1945.9547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1947.86159375,"end":1951.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1953.2615937500002,"end":1958.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1959.7078437500002,"end":1967.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1968.09471875,"end":1972.2459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1977.9834687500002,"end":1978.0003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1978.0003437500002,"end":1978.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1979.2659687500002,"end":1979.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1979.2828437500002,"end":1980.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1980.8184687500002,"end":1986.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1987.2647187500002,"end":1990.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1990.1334687500002,"end":1991.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1991.8884687500001,"end":1994.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1994.5884687500002,"end":2010.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2010.9403437500002,"end":2032.3040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2032.5403437500001,"end":2043.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2043.7284687500003,"end":2051.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2051.35596875,"end":2054.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2054.6297187500004,"end":2067.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2067.97784375,"end":2074.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2075.6559687500003,"end":2134.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2135.41034375,"end":2145.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2145.72096875,"end":2146.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2155.37346875,"end":2158.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2159.96346875,"end":2162.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2162.30909375,"end":2164.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2165.00909375,"end":2167.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2168.08034375,"end":2171.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2172.2147187500004,"end":2173.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2174.6784687500003,"end":2175.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2176.6190937500005,"end":2179.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2179.90971875,"end":2180.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2180.9053437500006,"end":2184.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2185.4784687500005,"end":2187.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2187.18284375,"end":2192.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2192.5153437500003,"end":2197.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2197.44284375,"end":2200.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2200.63221875,"end":2201.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2202.5222187500003,"end":2203.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2203.9734687500004,"end":2208.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2209.13721875,"end":2211.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2211.88784375,"end":2212.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2212.61346875,"end":2213.5584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2213.65971875,"end":2217.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2217.3047187500006,"end":2220.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2220.2578437500006,"end":2221.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2221.86096875,"end":2231.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2231.2772187500004,"end":2235.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2237.2509687500005,"end":2241.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2246.8865937500004,"end":2247.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2248.5234687500006,"end":2277.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2278.54409375,"end":2281.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2281.56471875,"end":2327.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2328.8484687500004,"end":2330.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2340.50909375,"end":2350.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2350.75221875,"end":2351.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2352.13596875,"end":2359.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2360.3203437500006,"end":2363.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2363.9822187500004,"end":2366.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2367.32346875,"end":2368.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2368.9434687500006,"end":2381.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2382.1228437500004,"end":2388.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2389.49721875,"end":2397.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2397.2090937500006,"end":2399.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2399.99346875,"end":2401.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2401.2928437500004,"end":2405.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2406.2878437500003,"end":2407.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2407.84034375,"end":2409.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2409.29159375,"end":2415.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2415.73784375,"end":2416.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2416.37909375,"end":2423.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2424.0065937500003,"end":2425.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2426.09909375,"end":2426.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2426.70659375,"end":2428.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2429.52471875,"end":2434.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2434.41846875,"end":2437.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2438.14784375,"end":2441.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2442.72096875,"end":2445.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2445.85971875,"end":2449.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2449.9772187500002,"end":2450.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2450.56784375,"end":2452.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2453.5547187500006,"end":2454.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2454.83721875,"end":2468.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2468.94471875,"end":2476.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2476.5215937500006,"end":2478.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2478.34409375,"end":2479.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2480.0653437500005,"end":2487.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2488.11471875,"end":2495.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2497.5478437500005,"end":2499.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2499.4715937500005,"end":2506.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2508.12846875,"end":2508.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2510.71034375,"end":2512.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2512.9715937500005,"end":2516.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2517.27471875,"end":2524.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2524.4803437500004,"end":2525.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2526.4040937500004,"end":2529.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2530.1503437500005,"end":2533.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2533.49159375,"end":2537.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2538.1490937500002,"end":2541.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2541.64221875,"end":2543.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2544.32534375,"end":2546.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2546.87346875,"end":2549.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2550.01221875,"end":2552.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2552.9822187500004,"end":2555.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2556.44159375,"end":2565.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2567.00534375,"end":2576.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2577.3497187500006,"end":2584.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2584.2684687500005,"end":2588.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2588.92596875,"end":2594.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2594.5115937500004,"end":2600.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2601.54846875,"end":2606.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2616.3815937500003,"end":2621.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2619.68909375,"end":2620.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2621.79846875,"end":2623.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2626.9284687500003,"end":2648.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2649.76034375,"end":2658.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2659.26096875,"end":2666.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2665.60596875,"end":2667.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2667.3272187500006,"end":2668.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2668.23846875,"end":2669.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2669.09909375,"end":2678.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2669.1159687500003,"end":2669.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2679.5447187500004,"end":2679.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2680.37159375,"end":2682.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2682.78471875,"end":2685.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2686.68284375,"end":2687.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2688.1003437500003,"end":2688.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2688.9440937500003,"end":2699.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2700.50346875,"end":2701.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2701.9715937500005,"end":2702.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2702.83221875,"end":2702.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2702.96721875,"end":2703.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2703.8447187500005,"end":2704.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2705.14409375,"end":2709.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2705.8359687500006,"end":2707.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2709.46409375,"end":2730.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2731.35096875,"end":2732.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2735.4684687500003,"end":2736.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2736.97034375,"end":2740.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2740.7165937500004,"end":2744.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2744.47971875,"end":2748.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2748.7490937500006,"end":2749.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2750.4365937500006,"end":2750.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2751.17909375,"end":2753.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2754.06471875,"end":2756.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2754.0984687500004,"end":2754.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2756.35971875,"end":2760.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2760.17346875,"end":2760.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2760.20721875,"end":2760.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2760.3590937500003,"end":2760.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2760.4265937500004,"end":2760.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2760.6797187500006,"end":2762.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2762.6034687500005,"end":2773.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2774.68596875,"end":2775.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2776.8797187500004,"end":2779.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2777.3015937500004,"end":2780.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2779.2253437500003,"end":2779.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2781.73971875,"end":2785.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2785.04721875,"end":2785.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2785.06409375,"end":2786.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2786.02596875,"end":2789.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2789.08034375,"end":2789.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2789.2322187500004,"end":2792.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2792.3034687500003,"end":2792.8097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2793.55221875,"end":2794.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2794.6490937500002,"end":2795.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2795.7459687500004,"end":2796.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2797.0622187500003,"end":2800.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2801.93909375,"end":2802.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2802.4453437500006,"end":2802.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2802.81659375,"end":2805.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2803.72784375,"end":2803.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2805.4659687500007,"end":2809.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2806.2928437500004,"end":2828.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2810.5790937500005,"end":2812.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2812.5703437500006,"end":2812.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2813.0428437500004,"end":2814.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2814.4940937500005,"end":2814.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2814.62909375,"end":2814.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2829.15846875,"end":2835.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2835.5372187500006,"end":2838.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2838.9628437500005,"end":2838.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2842.13534375,"end":2845.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2845.44284375,"end":2847.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2847.5859687500006,"end":2851.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2849.83034375,"end":2850.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2850.26909375,"end":2851.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2851.82159375,"end":2862.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2862.79034375,"end":2869.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2869.54034375,"end":2873.8097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2876.3409687500007,"end":2880.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2881.9940937500005,"end":2891.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2891.5790937500005,"end":2897.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2898.04221875,"end":2902.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2902.58159375,"end":2908.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2909.07846875,"end":2911.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2912.33534375,"end":2912.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2913.2803437500006,"end":2915.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2915.6090937500003,"end":2921.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2921.12721875,"end":2921.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2922.0047187500004,"end":2924.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2922.03846875,"end":2922.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2924.6709687500006,"end":2925.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2926.39221875,"end":2945.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2945.5622187500003,"end":2954.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2954.8434687500003,"end":2955.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2955.1640937500006,"end":2955.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2956.1934687500006,"end":2956.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2957.1384687500004,"end":2975.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2976.22409375,"end":2984.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2982.78846875,"end":2982.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2985.2184687500003,"end":2996.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2996.4909687500003,"end":2996.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2997.3515937500006,"end":2998.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2997.5709687500002,"end":2997.9590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2999.41034375,"end":3001.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3002.78534375,"end":3003.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3003.9665937500004,"end":3010.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3030.71346875,"end":3035.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3035.87721875,"end":3036.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3037.0078437500006,"end":3038.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3038.3747187500003,"end":3044.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3042.39096875,"end":3043.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3046.5928437500006,"end":3051.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3061.07159375,"end":3098.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3098.6690937500007,"end":3130.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3130.79909375,"end":3150.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3152.21346875,"end":3152.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3152.2303437500004,"end":3153.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3154.18784375,"end":3163.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3164.07659375,"end":3171.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3172.1765937500004,"end":3182.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3182.9259687500007,"end":3189.2540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3189.3722187500007,"end":3192.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3192.81471875,"end":3194.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3194.82284375,"end":3204.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3205.23471875,"end":3212.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3212.17034375,"end":3228.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3228.97784375,"end":3268.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3268.5665937500007,"end":3291.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3291.90471875,"end":3292.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3292.93409375,"end":3307.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3307.46346875,"end":3308.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3308.4928437500002,"end":3313.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3313.1503437500005,"end":3313.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3314.56784375,"end":3314.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3314.8378437500005,"end":3314.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3315.10784375,"end":3315.3947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3315.9178437500004,"end":3328.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3328.5909687500007,"end":3329.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3329.99159375,"end":3331.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3331.62846875,"end":3343.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3343.60971875,"end":3351.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3351.5409687500005,"end":3351.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3351.9628437500005,"end":3363.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3363.55596875,"end":3365.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3366.52596875,"end":3371.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3371.2509687500005,"end":3374.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3374.6259687500005,"end":3382.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3382.11846875,"end":3428.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3428.8115937500006,"end":3433.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3432.64221875,"end":3432.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3433.9753437500003,"end":3436.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3435.71346875,"end":3438.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3439.7634687500004,"end":3441.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3441.97409375,"end":3444.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3454.7147187500004,"end":3458.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3458.71409375,"end":3460.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3464.33346875,"end":3464.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3465.54846875,"end":3465.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3465.5653437500005,"end":3468.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3468.55221875,"end":3474.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3474.7115937500002,"end":3504.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3505.20471875,"end":3510.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3511.58346875,"end":3512.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3512.5790937500005,"end":3518.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3519.4303437500002,"end":3521.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3521.0165937500005,"end":3521.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3521.03346875,"end":3521.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3521.0672187500004,"end":3521.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3521.0840937500006,"end":3521.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3521.1853437500004,"end":3521.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3521.21909375,"end":3521.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3521.65784375,"end":3521.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3521.9784687500005,"end":3527.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3531.34409375,"end":3531.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3531.3778437500005,"end":3532.2384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3533.57159375,"end":3534.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3534.90471875,"end":3537.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3537.73971875,"end":3543.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3543.3590937500003,"end":3551.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3551.9822187500004,"end":3563.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3563.64284375,"end":3570.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3570.71346875,"end":3575.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3575.5397187500002,"end":3601.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3603.0459687500006,"end":3617.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3618.5203437500004,"end":3619.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3619.7184687500003,"end":3623.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3623.8190937500003,"end":3630.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3629.7928437500004,"end":3655.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3637.0153437500003,"end":3637.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3655.4090937500005,"end":3689.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3689.8340937500006,"end":3701.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3702.20346875,"end":3711.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3712.51409375,"end":3724.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3724.7822187500005,"end":3727.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3727.51596875,"end":3735.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3736.8815937500003,"end":3737.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3737.7928437500004,"end":3739.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3740.0878437500005,"end":3742.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3745.8759687500005,"end":3756.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3756.08534375,"end":3771.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3760.9959687500004,"end":3761.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3761.0465937500003,"end":3761.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3761.1140937500004,"end":3761.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3761.21534375,"end":3761.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3771.94784375,"end":3775.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3771.9815937500007,"end":3772.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3775.67721875,"end":3786.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3787.4559687500005,"end":3794.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3795.4040937500004,"end":3836.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3838.1315937500003,"end":3838.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3838.41846875,"end":3844.3078437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3844.5947187500005,"end":3847.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3847.02471875,"end":3865.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3866.7684687500005,"end":3867.2072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3868.23659375,"end":3874.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3874.44659375,"end":3904.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3903.3365937500002,"end":3904.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3904.58534375,"end":3904.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3904.6022187500002,"end":3904.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3904.70346875,"end":3904.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3904.82159375,"end":3904.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3905.1759687500007,"end":3911.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3922.8272187500006,"end":3926.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3925.6453437500004,"end":3926.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3927.01221875,"end":3927.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3927.06284375,"end":3927.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3927.29909375,"end":3927.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3930.38721875,"end":3931.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3931.16346875,"end":3945.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3945.4228437500005,"end":3946.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3947.3634687500007,"end":3949.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3950.3165937500007,"end":3951.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3952.0378437500003,"end":3954.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3954.97409375,"end":3955.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3955.9190937500007,"end":3961.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3961.47096875,"end":3966.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3966.9215937500003,"end":3970.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3970.5497187500005,"end":3971.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3971.9503437500007,"end":3974.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3975.0553437500002,"end":3976.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3976.0340937500005,"end":3976.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3976.8103437500004,"end":3976.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3976.9959687500004,"end":3980.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3981.3834687500002,"end":3982.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3982.93596875,"end":3985.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3985.41659375,"end":3988.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3989.1797187500006,"end":3990.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3990.95159375,"end":3992.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3992.9765937500006,"end":3993.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3994.6134687500007,"end":3994.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3994.63034375,"end":4000.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4000.70534375,"end":4002.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4002.8484687500004,"end":4008.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4008.97409375,"end":4014.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4015.8253437500007,"end":4020.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4021.1072187500004,"end":4026.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4027.0303437500006,"end":4032.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4032.6834687500004,"end":4040.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4041.52596875,"end":4047.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4048.1240937500006,"end":4049.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4050.2165937500004,"end":4052.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4053.64221875,"end":4055.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4059.2109687500006,"end":4060.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4061.05034375,"end":4061.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4063.0753437500007,"end":4074.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4073.3184687500006,"end":4075.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4077.01409375,"end":4079.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4080.9459687500002,"end":4081.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4082.07659375,"end":4082.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4083.8990937500002,"end":4086.1603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4087.3584687500006,"end":4090.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4088.03346875,"end":4088.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4090.0753437500007,"end":4090.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4090.2272187500002,"end":4090.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4090.8347187500003,"end":4102.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4091.2565937500003,"end":4092.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4101.179093750001,"end":4101.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4102.51221875,"end":4108.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4108.435343749999,"end":4110.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4111.27034375,"end":4133.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4134.05159375,"end":4135.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4135.823468750001,"end":4189.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4189.030343750001,"end":4195.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4195.965968750001,"end":4207.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4208.048468749999,"end":4263.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4263.63471875,"end":4316.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4316.72346875,"end":4317.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4317.314093749999,"end":4319.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4317.63471875,"end":4318.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4321.110968749999,"end":4327.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4336.298468749999,"end":4338.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4340.16284375,"end":4341.175343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4342.677218750001,"end":4343.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4343.6728437500005,"end":4357.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4344.61784375,"end":4344.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4358.55659375,"end":4363.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4363.720343749999,"end":4369.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4370.1834687499995,"end":4375.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4375.51596875,"end":4396.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4396.18784375,"end":4406.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4407.139718750001,"end":4413.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4412.87721875,"end":4412.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4412.96159375,"end":4412.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4413.67034375,"end":4416.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4416.825968749999,"end":4446.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4429.904093749999,"end":4430.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4447.50471875,"end":4448.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4448.50034375,"end":4458.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4458.33846875,"end":4469.425343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4459.89096875,"end":4459.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4470.690968749999,"end":4501.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4501.200968749999,"end":4507.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4507.90034375,"end":4510.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4510.634093750001,"end":4511.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4512.2372187500005,"end":4518.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4518.919718749999,"end":4521.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4521.602843750001,"end":4529.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4529.854718750001,"end":4569.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4569.67971875,"end":4575.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4576.260968750001,"end":4600.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4600.763468749999,"end":4610.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4611.749093750001,"end":4619.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4619.190968749999,"end":4621.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4621.99221875,"end":4649.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4650.325343750001,"end":4662.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4661.2772187499995,"end":4663.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4662.930968750001,"end":4665.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4665.71534375,"end":4669.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4669.866593750001,"end":4674.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4674.7772187499995,"end":4676.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4676.802218750001,"end":4677.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4677.173468749999,"end":4677.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4677.52784375,"end":4678.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4678.13534375,"end":4687.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4681.51034375,"end":4681.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4682.708468750001,"end":4683.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4687.770968750001,"end":4712.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4697.001593749999,"end":4697.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4699.347218749999,"end":4699.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4699.954718749999,"end":4699.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4712.7459687499995,"end":4718.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4716.10409375,"end":4716.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4716.4247187500005,"end":4716.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4718.095343749999,"end":4719.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4718.854718750001,"end":4734.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4725.419093750001,"end":4725.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4725.43596875,"end":4725.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4728.507218750001,"end":4728.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4728.91221875,"end":4729.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4732.810343749999,"end":4732.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4732.827218750001,"end":4732.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4732.911593750001,"end":4732.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4732.94534375,"end":4733.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4734.464093750001,"end":4756.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4756.064093749999,"end":4757.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4756.41846875,"end":4757.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4760.333468750001,"end":4763.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4763.944718750001,"end":4766.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4778.575343750001,"end":4782.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4782.49034375,"end":4782.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4783.215968750001,"end":4787.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4791.079718749999,"end":4818.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4816.29096875,"end":4816.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4819.75034375,"end":4827.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4827.15846875,"end":4835.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4835.96721875,"end":4850.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4839.038468750001,"end":4842.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4850.02409375,"end":4864.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4860.419093750001,"end":4860.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4860.452843749999,"end":4860.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4864.78971875,"end":4864.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4865.26221875,"end":4865.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4865.97096875,"end":4866.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4866.780968749999,"end":4866.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4866.7978437500005,"end":4867.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4867.0340937500005,"end":4867.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4867.067843750001,"end":4867.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4867.60784375,"end":4877.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4877.564093749999,"end":4886.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4886.96346875,"end":4892.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4892.194718750001,"end":4892.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4893.57846875,"end":4894.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4893.86534375,"end":4893.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4893.89909375,"end":4894.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4894.8778437500005,"end":4895.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4895.282843749999,"end":4920.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4920.966593749999,"end":4955.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4957.23096875,"end":4958.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4959.94784375,"end":4960.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4960.84221875,"end":4962.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4963.120343750001,"end":4964.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4964.03159375,"end":4965.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4965.972218750001,"end":4975.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4977.05909375,"end":4979.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4979.894093750001,"end":4979.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4979.97846875,"end":4980.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4980.029093749999,"end":4981.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4982.003468750001,"end":4984.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4984.38284375,"end":4984.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4984.399718750001,"end":4984.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4984.83846875,"end":4986.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4986.644093750001,"end":4988.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4986.76221875,"end":4988.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4988.73659375,"end":4990.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4991.436593750001,"end":4995.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4995.99284375,"end":5006.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5005.18971875,"end":5006.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5007.11346875,"end":5007.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5007.14721875,"end":5007.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5007.231593750001,"end":5007.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5007.2822187500005,"end":5007.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5007.450968749999,"end":5009.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5010.1678437499995,"end":5011.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5011.60221875,"end":5024.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5023.5497187500005,"end":5035.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5024.663468750001,"end":5024.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5025.01784375,"end":5025.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5035.22721875,"end":5038.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5035.24409375,"end":5035.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5035.9697187500005,"end":5036.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5036.577218750001,"end":5036.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5038.19721875,"end":5038.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5038.28159375,"end":5074.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5074.866593750001,"end":5103.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5103.975968750001,"end":5105.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5105.54534375,"end":5106.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5106.608468750001,"end":5108.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5108.515343749999,"end":5111.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5111.569718750001,"end":5125.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5125.03596875,"end":5126.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5126.520968750001,"end":5126.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5127.29721875,"end":5127.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5127.314093749999,"end":5129.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5129.96346875,"end":5131.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5131.026593750001,"end":5132.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5131.026593750001,"end":5133.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5133.38909375,"end":5147.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5138.36721875,"end":5138.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5138.384093750001,"end":5138.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5138.40096875,"end":5138.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5138.50221875,"end":5140.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5147.46284375,"end":5156.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5156.187218749999,"end":5156.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5156.69346875,"end":5156.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5156.72721875,"end":5161.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5162.194718750001,"end":5170.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5162.5322187500005,"end":5163.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5170.51409375,"end":5175.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5175.9647187499995,"end":5198.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5197.80096875,"end":5198.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5198.45909375,"end":5198.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5198.77971875,"end":5198.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5198.96534375,"end":5199.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5199.25221875,"end":5199.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5199.28596875,"end":5200.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5201.614718750001,"end":5206.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5207.048468749999,"end":5210.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5211.16596875,"end":5224.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5235.5165937500005,"end":5238.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5239.212218750001,"end":5240.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5243.279093749999,"end":5243.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5244.173468749999,"end":5261.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5262.98909375,"end":5263.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5264.40659375,"end":5271.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5271.05534375,"end":5271.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5272.202843749999,"end":5277.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5278.3622187500005,"end":5286.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5284.4540937500005,"end":5284.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5284.589093750001,"end":5284.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5287.66034375,"end":5296.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5296.637843750001,"end":5301.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5301.71721875,"end":5336.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5337.458468750001,"end":5341.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5341.542218750001,"end":5343.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5343.0272187499995,"end":5347.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5347.61721875,"end":5351.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5351.987843750001,"end":5352.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5352.882218750001,"end":5364.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5364.15471875,"end":5374.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5375.02221875,"end":5377.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5377.04721875,"end":5377.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5377.36784375,"end":5380.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5380.911593750001,"end":5383.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5384.03346875,"end":5391.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5395.727843750001,"end":5409.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5409.39659375,"end":5413.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5409.9872187500005,"end":5410.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5412.06284375,"end":5412.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5415.134093750001,"end":5417.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5416.9228437500005,"end":5509.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5509.88721875,"end":5510.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5510.44409375,"end":5515.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5515.962218750001,"end":5516.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5517.00846875,"end":5529.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5520.24846875,"end":5520.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5528.36534375,"end":5531.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5530.204718749999,"end":5532.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5532.76971875,"end":5536.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5532.972218750001,"end":5533.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5536.9715937500005,"end":5538.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5539.41846875,"end":5551.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5550.96096875,"end":5552.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5552.142218749999,"end":5567.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5563.14471875,"end":5564.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5565.25409375,"end":5568.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5567.751593749999,"end":5568.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5568.71346875,"end":5569.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5569.10159375,"end":5579.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5579.86784375,"end":5582.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5582.36534375,"end":5606.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5582.60159375,"end":5583.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5584.13721875,"end":5584.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5584.964093750001,"end":5585.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5607.323468750001,"end":5616.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5616.85784375,"end":5619.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5619.4228437500005,"end":5620.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5621.49846875,"end":5627.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5626.1053437499995,"end":5649.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5649.780968749999,"end":5659.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5659.163468750001,"end":5659.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5659.93971875,"end":5661.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5660.5809687500005,"end":5660.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5660.59784375,"end":5662.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5662.251593749999,"end":5668.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5668.93409375,"end":5670.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5670.38534375,"end":5670.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5670.419093750001,"end":5670.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5670.739718750001,"end":5672.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5672.5790937500005,"end":5682.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5694.24659375,"end":5696.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5697.38534375,"end":5698.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5700.591593749999,"end":5700.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5702.093468749999,"end":5702.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5702.751593749999,"end":5703.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5703.932843750001,"end":5706.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5706.970343749999,"end":5716.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5716.774718750001,"end":5718.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5719.204718749999,"end":5721.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5722.208468750001,"end":5723.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5723.96346875,"end":5724.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5725.65096875,"end":5729.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5730.325343750001,"end":5732.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5733.464093750001,"end":5737.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5737.46346875,"end":5739.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5739.876593749999,"end":5740.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5741.429093750001,"end":5742.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5742.795968750001,"end":5745.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5746.305968750001,"end":5746.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5747.31846875,"end":5750.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5750.9803437499995,"end":5752.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5753.1572187500005,"end":5759.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5760.278468750001,"end":5762.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5762.421593749999,"end":5764.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5765.712218750001,"end":5768.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5768.78346875,"end":5771.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5772.0740937499995,"end":5776.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5776.51221875,"end":5778.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5778.503468750001,"end":5779.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5780.325968749999,"end":5781.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5781.94596875,"end":5783.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5783.54909375,"end":5784.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5785.42221875,"end":5786.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5787.10971875,"end":5788.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5789.2528437500005,"end":5790.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5791.294718749999,"end":5792.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5793.01596875,"end":5800.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5800.89659375,"end":5808.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5808.96284375,"end":5811.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5811.89909375,"end":5814.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5816.13471875,"end":5820.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5821.28159375,"end":5824.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5824.639718750001,"end":5828.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5829.48284375,"end":5831.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5831.69346875,"end":5837.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5838.00471875,"end":5839.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5839.28721875,"end":5840.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5841.413468750001,"end":5843.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5843.185343749999,"end":5845.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5845.210343750001,"end":5845.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5846.374718749999,"end":5848.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5848.399718750001,"end":5850.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5851.217843750001,"end":5852.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5853.124718749999,"end":5857.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5857.815968750001,"end":5859.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5861.055968750001,"end":5867.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5868.10971875,"end":5869.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5869.358468750001,"end":5871.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5871.56909375,"end":5885.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5887.262843750001,"end":5893.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5893.810343749999,"end":5895.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5894.95784375,"end":5897.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5897.387843750001,"end":5897.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5897.55659375,"end":5897.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5897.759093750001,"end":5897.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5897.82659375,"end":5898.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5898.029093749999,"end":5903.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5904.407843750001,"end":5908.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5909.335343750001,"end":5910.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5911.259093750001,"end":5915.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5915.68034375,"end":5917.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5917.958468750001,"end":5936.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5938.05659375,"end":5942.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5942.54534375,"end":5949.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5950.24034375,"end":5956.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5956.56846875,"end":5960.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5960.061593750001,"end":5965.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5965.950968749999,"end":5968.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5968.060343749999,"end":5975.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5973.15659375,"end":5973.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5973.173468750001,"end":5975.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5975.87346875,"end":5981.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5981.6278437500005,"end":5982.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5983.4334687499995,"end":6002.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6003.86909375,"end":6007.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6008.54346875,"end":6013.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6013.97721875,"end":6026.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6026.86971875,"end":6029.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6029.60346875,"end":6032.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6032.87721875,"end":6033.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6034.27784375,"end":6042.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6042.647843750001,"end":6043.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6044.58846875,"end":6047.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6048.689093750001,"end":6049.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6050.12346875,"end":6051.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6051.99659375,"end":6053.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6053.54909375,"end":6055.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6056.18159375,"end":6058.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6060.0965937500005,"end":6061.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6062.475968750001,"end":6064.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6065.513468749999,"end":6066.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6066.930968750001,"end":6068.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6068.702843749999,"end":6069.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6070.18784375,"end":6071.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6073.09034375,"end":6074.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6074.45721875,"end":6076.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6077.427218750001,"end":6082.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6083.4178437499995,"end":6083.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6084.970343750001,"end":6085.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6085.999718749999,"end":6094.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6087.788468750001,"end":6105.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6102.80721875,"end":6103.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6106.33409375,"end":6114.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6115.3622187500005,"end":6118.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6118.399718750001,"end":6122.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6122.58471875,"end":6128.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6129.01409375,"end":6129.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6129.99284375,"end":6133.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6132.692843750001,"end":6134.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6134.717843750001,"end":6134.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6134.73471875,"end":6134.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6134.937218749999,"end":6139.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6138.548468750001,"end":6151.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6155.82846875,"end":6157.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6158.41034375,"end":6160.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6162.089093750001,"end":6162.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6162.7303437499995,"end":6164.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6164.519093750001,"end":6164.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6165.075968749999,"end":6165.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6165.16034375,"end":6165.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6165.19409375,"end":6168.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6169.1259687500005,"end":6170.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6171.35346875,"end":6172.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6173.479718750001,"end":6174.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6174.694718750001,"end":6177.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6178.05284375,"end":6179.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6179.6053437499995,"end":6180.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6180.786593750001,"end":6184.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6185.140343749999,"end":6185.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6185.899718750001,"end":6186.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6187.249718749999,"end":6190.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6191.50221875,"end":6192.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6192.497843749999,"end":6194.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6195.2147187499995,"end":6196.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6196.75034375,"end":6197.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6198.25221875,"end":6199.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6200.749718749999,"end":6208.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6208.2928437499995,"end":6215.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6215.515343749999,"end":6218.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6219.10971875,"end":6220.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6221.74221875,"end":6222.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6223.22721875,"end":6224.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6224.93159375,"end":6227.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6227.7665937500005,"end":6230.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6231.47909375,"end":6233.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6233.841593749999,"end":6234.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6234.76971875,"end":6235.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6236.45721875,"end":6237.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6238.499093750001,"end":6239.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6240.05159375,"end":6243.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6243.409718750001,"end":6244.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6244.84409375,"end":6246.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6246.34596875,"end":6247.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6248.573468750001,"end":6248.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6248.657843750001,"end":6248.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6248.894093750001,"end":6253.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6251.8134687500005,"end":6253.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6253.720343750001,"end":6253.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6253.7372187500005,"end":6253.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6253.75409375,"end":6253.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6253.93971875,"end":6254.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6253.956593750001,"end":6253.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6253.97346875,"end":6254.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6254.057843750001,"end":6254.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6254.22659375,"end":6254.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6254.243468750001,"end":6254.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6254.665343750001,"end":6255.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6256.15034375,"end":6263.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6261.5165937500005,"end":6267.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6268.38471875,"end":6274.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6274.29096875,"end":6277.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6277.04159375,"end":6277.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6277.294718749999,"end":6278.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6279.083468750001,"end":6281.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6282.0028437500005,"end":6283.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6284.280968749999,"end":6286.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6286.87971875,"end":6291.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6292.09409375,"end":6293.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6294.405968749999,"end":6301.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6301.79721875,"end":6321.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6310.75784375,"end":6312.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6322.0809687500005,"end":6322.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6322.6884687500005,"end":6330.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6330.889718750001,"end":6336.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6336.10409375,"end":6336.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6336.559718750001,"end":6336.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6336.9647187499995,"end":6337.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6337.18409375,"end":6337.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6337.200968749999,"end":6338.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6339.15846875,"end":6352.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6348.591593749999,"end":6349.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6351.038468750001,"end":6355.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6355.66221875,"end":6355.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6355.965968750001,"end":6356.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6356.16846875,"end":6363.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6357.90659375,"end":6358.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6364.04909375,"end":6366.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6367.27221875,"end":6370.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6370.93409375,"end":6373.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6373.43159375,"end":6375.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6375.979718750001,"end":6377.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6378.325343750001,"end":6381.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6382.13909375,"end":6383.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6383.843468749999,"end":6384.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6385.27784375,"end":6385.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6386.50971875,"end":6387.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6388.12971875,"end":6388.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6389.22659375,"end":6389.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6389.96909375,"end":6398.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6398.710343750001,"end":6403.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6403.485968750001,"end":6404.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6405.409718750001,"end":6405.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6406.6415937500005,"end":6407.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6408.10971875,"end":6409.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6409.84784375,"end":6411.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6411.231593750001,"end":6427.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6428.055968750001,"end":6432.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6433.05096875,"end":6434.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6434.890343749999,"end":6437.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6437.843468749999,"end":6438.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6439.1259687500005,"end":6440.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6440.54346875,"end":6445.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6445.403468750001,"end":6446.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6446.55096875,"end":6447.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6448.50846875,"end":6456.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6456.99659375,"end":6459.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6459.62909375,"end":6460.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6460.860968750001,"end":6462.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6462.7509687500005,"end":6464.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6466.32846875,"end":6468.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6468.67409375,"end":6481.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6481.9715937500005,"end":6482.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6483.186593750001,"end":6488.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6486.409718750001,"end":6487.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6487.10159375,"end":6489.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6488.468468749999,"end":6489.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6489.7509687500005,"end":6491.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6491.74221875,"end":6492.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6493.075343750001,"end":6495.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6496.70346875,"end":6497.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6498.25596875,"end":6499.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6500.16284375,"end":6502.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6503.1834687499995,"end":6506.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6506.609093749999,"end":6507.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6508.14471875,"end":6511.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6511.671593749999,"end":6513.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6514.00034375,"end":6515.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6515.95784375,"end":6517.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6517.9490937499995,"end":6520.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6520.85159375,"end":6522.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6523.28159375,"end":6527.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6527.6522187499995,"end":6528.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6529.154093749999,"end":6533.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6534.67221875,"end":6537.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6537.47346875,"end":6546.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6547.64909375,"end":6548.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6549.606593750001,"end":6550.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6550.720343750001,"end":6552.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6553.825343750001,"end":6554.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6555.4959687499995,"end":6565.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6559.03971875,"end":6559.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6566.31284375,"end":6571.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6568.92846875,"end":6568.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6570.700343750001,"end":6590.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6575.54346875,"end":6575.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6590.325968749999,"end":6595.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6595.067843750001,"end":6597.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6597.835343750001,"end":6599.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6599.87721875,"end":6602.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6602.59409375,"end":6605.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6605.49659375,"end":6608.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6608.39909375,"end":6610.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6610.778468750001,"end":6614.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6614.288468750001,"end":6618.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6618.7772187499995,"end":6620.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6621.274718750001,"end":6623.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6623.87346875,"end":6626.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6626.74221875,"end":6633.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6629.72909375,"end":6629.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6629.7459687499995,"end":6630.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6631.821593750001,"end":6637.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6638.149718750001,"end":6643.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6642.99284375,"end":6645.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6643.6678437499995,"end":6643.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6643.83659375,"end":6643.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6643.88721875,"end":6643.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6643.904093749999,"end":6644.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6644.190968750001,"end":6644.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6644.68034375,"end":6645.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6645.135968750001,"end":6645.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6646.65471875,"end":6647.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6646.89096875,"end":6652.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6659.83409375,"end":6663.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6663.462218750001,"end":6664.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6668.575343750001,"end":6675.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6675.831593750001,"end":6681.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6681.48471875,"end":6685.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6685.720343750001,"end":6688.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6688.47096875,"end":6694.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6694.124093750001,"end":6696.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6696.925343750001,"end":6699.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6699.91221875,"end":6701.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6701.481593750001,"end":6703.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6703.55721875,"end":6725.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6725.5115937499995,"end":6726.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6726.76034375,"end":6730.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6730.860968750001,"end":6751.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6751.22909375,"end":6753.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6753.456593750001,"end":6759.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6760.155968749999,"end":6778.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6779.59596875,"end":6790.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6789.14721875,"end":6789.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6790.80096875,"end":6792.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6792.454718750001,"end":6793.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6793.062218749999,"end":6793.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6793.247843749999,"end":6794.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6794.665343750001,"end":6795.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6795.509093750001,"end":6797.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6797.432843750001,"end":6801.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6800.807843750001,"end":6803.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6803.40659375,"end":6808.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6808.55346875,"end":6812.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6812.468468749999,"end":6816.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6812.50221875,"end":6812.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6816.34971875,"end":6822.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6821.2772187499995,"end":6825.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6825.546593749999,"end":6833.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6833.714093750001,"end":6837.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6833.747843749999,"end":6835.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6837.76409375,"end":6838.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6838.675343750001,"end":6842.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6840.34596875,"end":6842.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6842.69159375,"end":6843.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6843.687218749999,"end":6853.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6851.010968750001,"end":6851.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6852.546593749999,"end":6854.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6855.0272187499995,"end":6860.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6857.187218749999,"end":6857.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6858.655343750001,"end":6862.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6861.70971875,"end":6863.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6863.481593750001,"end":6869.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6869.26971875,"end":6882.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6869.50596875,"end":6870.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6880.2215937500005,"end":6889.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6882.921593749999,"end":6882.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6882.972218750001,"end":6883.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6887.68034375,"end":6887.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6890.0428437499995,"end":6892.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6893.11409375,"end":6893.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6893.95784375,"end":6941.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6941.35971875,"end":6968.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6968.86596875,"end":6990.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6985.8759687500005,"end":6987.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6990.43221875,"end":6992.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6991.1747187500005,"end":6991.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6992.96346875,"end":6996.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6993.840968750001,"end":6994.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6996.034718750001,"end":6996.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6996.456593750001,"end":6996.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6996.507218750001,"end":6996.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6996.76034375,"end":7015.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7015.491593750001,"end":7035.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7036.41659375,"end":7037.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7037.935343749999,"end":7050.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7051.030343750001,"end":7057.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7054.42221875,"end":7054.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7057.5947187500005,"end":7061.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7061.45909375,"end":7071.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7063.51784375,"end":7064.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7065.036593750001,"end":7069.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7070.35221875,"end":7071.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7071.39846875,"end":7072.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7072.022843750001,"end":7072.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7073.237843750001,"end":7074.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7073.67659375,"end":7073.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7073.69346875,"end":7077.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7077.94596875,"end":7080.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7088.96534375,"end":7089.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7090.247843749999,"end":7091.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7092.30659375,"end":7093.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7097.03159375,"end":7097.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7097.385968750001,"end":7097.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7097.993468750001,"end":7098.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7098.06096875,"end":7098.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7099.545968750001,"end":7099.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7099.579718750001,"end":7102.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7102.5497187500005,"end":7105.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7105.14846875,"end":7106.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7106.903468750001,"end":7114.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7114.17659375,"end":7114.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7114.41284375,"end":7122.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7123.204718750001,"end":7126.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7126.967843750001,"end":7127.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7127.77784375,"end":7130.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7131.70971875,"end":7135.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7135.69221875,"end":7137.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7138.42596875,"end":7140.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7141.09221875,"end":7141.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7141.56471875,"end":7144.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7144.60221875,"end":7144.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7146.272843750001,"end":7147.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7148.82096875,"end":7151.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7151.993468750001,"end":7152.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7152.80346875,"end":7156.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7156.448468750001,"end":7157.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7157.849093750001,"end":7159.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7159.46909375,"end":7166.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7168.04159375,"end":7169.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7169.93159375,"end":7170.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7170.606593750001,"end":7172.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7173.137843750001,"end":7174.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7174.89284375,"end":7180.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7180.545968750001,"end":7183.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7183.75221875,"end":7184.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7185.28784375,"end":7186.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7186.99221875,"end":7189.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7189.860968750001,"end":7191.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7192.915343750001,"end":7197.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7195.27784375,"end":7195.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7195.41284375,"end":7196.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7197.96096875,"end":7198.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7198.14659375,"end":7199.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7199.800343750001,"end":7199.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7199.83409375,"end":7199.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7199.952218750001,"end":7199.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7199.96909375,"end":7200.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7200.036593750001,"end":7200.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7200.05346875,"end":7200.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7200.1209687499995,"end":7200.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7200.89721875,"end":7203.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7203.276593750001,"end":7204.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7204.87971875,"end":7207.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7208.45721875,"end":7210.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7211.612843750001,"end":7212.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7212.692843750001,"end":7213.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7214.26221875,"end":7217.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7218.00846875,"end":7225.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7225.51784375,"end":7225.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7225.56846875,"end":7227.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7227.593468750001,"end":7229.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7229.83784375,"end":7231.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7232.099093750001,"end":7234.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7234.61346875,"end":7237.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7237.33034375,"end":7240.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7240.73909375,"end":7243.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7243.860968750001,"end":7244.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7246.74659375,"end":7248.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7248.788468750001,"end":7251.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7251.2353437500005,"end":7251.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7252.38284375,"end":7252.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7253.83409375,"end":7256.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7257.10784375,"end":7258.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7258.89659375,"end":7262.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7264.2459687499995,"end":7264.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7264.262843750001,"end":7265.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7265.950343750001,"end":7268.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7268.329718750001,"end":7275.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7275.33284375,"end":7281.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7281.694718750001,"end":7286.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7287.76971875,"end":7290.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7291.2459687499995,"end":7291.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7292.663468750001,"end":7296.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7296.510968750001,"end":7299.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7300.00409375,"end":7302.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7302.58596875,"end":7305.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7306.41659375,"end":7307.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7307.73284375,"end":7308.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7308.593468750001,"end":7308.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7309.487843750001,"end":7314.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7315.073468750001,"end":7324.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7324.439093750001,"end":7324.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7324.70909375,"end":7326.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7327.493468750001,"end":7329.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7329.6365937499995,"end":7330.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7330.7840937500005,"end":7331.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7332.134093750001,"end":7333.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7333.821593750001,"end":7336.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7338.090968750001,"end":7338.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7338.462218750001,"end":7338.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7339.03596875,"end":7339.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7340.6728437500005,"end":7345.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7345.65096875,"end":7351.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7351.05096875,"end":7357.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7358.189093750001,"end":7362.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7363.13346875,"end":7364.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7364.517218750001,"end":7367.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7368.01034375,"end":7370.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7370.794718749999,"end":7371.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7371.975968750001,"end":7372.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7373.03909375,"end":7376.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7376.39721875,"end":7377.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7377.409718750001,"end":7395.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7396.19159375,"end":7397.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7397.339093750001,"end":7398.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7399.1278437500005,"end":7402.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7403.0428437499995,"end":7405.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7405.92846875,"end":7406.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7406.569718750001,"end":7410.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7406.940968750001,"end":7407.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7412.104718750001,"end":7414.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7415.108468750001,"end":7425.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7418.07846875,"end":7418.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7425.975968750001,"end":7426.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7428.96284375,"end":7429.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7430.07659375,"end":7431.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7446.10784375,"end":7446.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7446.968468750001,"end":7449.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7449.24659375,"end":7453.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7454.12346875,"end":7456.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7456.41846875,"end":7457.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7458.224093750001,"end":7459.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7459.0340937500005,"end":7467.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7460.78909375,"end":7460.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7460.92409375,"end":7461.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7461.02534375,"end":7461.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7461.71721875,"end":7461.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7462.03784375,"end":7462.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7462.763468749999,"end":7462.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7462.84784375,"end":7462.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7462.965968750001,"end":7463.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7463.202218750001,"end":7463.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7463.2528437500005,"end":7463.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7468.28159375,"end":7468.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7468.75409375,"end":7469.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7469.78346875,"end":7469.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7469.88471875,"end":7470.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7470.15471875,"end":7470.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7470.4247187500005,"end":7470.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7470.49221875,"end":7470.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7470.52596875,"end":7470.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7470.72846875,"end":7471.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7471.0322187500005,"end":7472.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7472.1122187500005,"end":7472.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7570.4090937500005,"end":7570.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7572.974093750001,"end":7573.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7573.37909375,"end":7573.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7603.97346875,"end":7606.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7607.432843750001,"end":7613.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7613.794718749999,"end":7614.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7615.499093750001,"end":7616.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7616.12346875,"end":7616.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7636.390343750001,"end":7638.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7638.48284375,"end":7640.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7641.94221875,"end":7643.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7644.405968750001,"end":7645.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7646.144093750001,"end":7648.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7675.489718750001,"end":7676.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7676.77221875,"end":7676.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7676.97471875,"end":7677.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7720.41096875,"end":7720.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7720.42784375,"end":7720.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7720.93409375,"end":7720.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7721.474093750001,"end":7721.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7723.9715937500005,"end":7725.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7725.96284375,"end":7726.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7726.452218750001,"end":7732.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7734.29909375,"end":7734.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7734.53534375,"end":7734.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7735.3622187500005,"end":7735.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7736.25659375,"end":7737.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7737.75846875,"end":7737.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7752.96284375,"end":7753.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7753.33409375,"end":7753.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7754.97096875,"end":7764.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7836.966593749999,"end":7837.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7837.962218750001,"end":7850.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7840.392218750001,"end":7841.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7956.9647187499995,"end":7957.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7957.04909375,"end":7957.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7985.97284375,"end":7987.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7987.03596875,"end":7990.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7990.79909375,"end":7993.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7993.684718750001,"end":7993.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7994.005343750001,"end":7995.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7999.776593750001,"end":8000.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8016.98909375,"end":8019.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8019.67221875,"end":8019.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8019.840968750001,"end":8021.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8021.20784375,"end":8022.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8022.186593750001,"end":8024.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8024.802218750001,"end":8025.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8025.274718750001,"end":8025.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8025.359093750001,"end":8025.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8025.52784375,"end":8025.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8077.958468750001,"end":8078.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8101.077218750001,"end":8104.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8112.56909375,"end":8113.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8114.155343750001,"end":8115.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8118.89721875,"end":8132.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8132.81909375,"end":8139.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8135.890343750001,"end":8135.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8139.417218750001,"end":8142.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8143.23096875,"end":8145.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8146.09971875,"end":8158.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8159.295968750001,"end":8164.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8165.472218750001,"end":8167.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8168.003468750001,"end":8173.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8173.74096875,"end":8180.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8180.92971875,"end":8193.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8193.97409375,"end":8195.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8195.66159375,"end":8198.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8199.27284375,"end":8201.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8202.05721875,"end":8203.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8203.660343750002,"end":8208.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8209.06034375,"end":8209.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8210.579093750002,"end":8214.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8214.66284375,"end":8222.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8222.52659375,"end":8222.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8223.690968750001,"end":8227.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8228.230343750001,"end":8230.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8231.06534375,"end":8232.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8233.242218750001,"end":8237.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8237.74784375,"end":8240.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8240.49846875,"end":8241.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8241.56159375,"end":8243.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8244.649718749999,"end":8245.493468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8246.20221875,"end":8248.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8248.73346875,"end":8249.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8250.184718750003,"end":8250.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8250.20159375,"end":8250.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8250.99471875,"end":8254.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8251.011593750001,"end":8253.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8255.230343750001,"end":8263.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8263.836593750002,"end":8263.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8265.034718750001,"end":8265.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8265.06846875,"end":8275.868468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8265.08534375,"end":8267.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8276.57721875,"end":8297.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8297.957843750002,"end":8299.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8299.746593750002,"end":8302.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8303.13846875,"end":8307.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8307.492218750001,"end":8309.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8310.445343750001,"end":8312.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8312.63909375,"end":8320.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8318.00534375,"end":8324.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8321.86971875,"end":8322.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8325.09284375,"end":8333.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8333.024093750002,"end":8339.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8340.60096875,"end":8344.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8340.68534375,"end":8341.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8343.68909375,"end":8346.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8347.28346875,"end":8371.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8370.90846875,"end":8374.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8373.625343750002,"end":8379.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8375.39721875,"end":8375.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8378.940968750001,"end":8379.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8381.910968750002,"end":8385.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8386.112843750001,"end":8387.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8388.15471875,"end":8389.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8397.570968750002,"end":8399.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8399.039093750001,"end":8399.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8399.37659375,"end":8399.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8399.49471875,"end":8399.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8399.59596875,"end":8399.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8399.64659375,"end":8399.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8399.96721875,"end":8400.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8400.034718750001,"end":8400.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8403.98346875,"end":8404.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8404.77659375,"end":8413.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8413.551593750002,"end":8413.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8413.872218750003,"end":8413.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8413.973468750002,"end":8434.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8434.78034375,"end":8450.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8451.300968750002,"end":8458.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8459.08034375,"end":8459.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8460.329093750002,"end":8464.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8464.41284375,"end":8464.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8465.13846875,"end":8466.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8466.52221875,"end":8468.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8468.51346875,"end":8479.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8479.566593750002,"end":8481.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8481.64221875,"end":8483.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8483.515343750001,"end":8487.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8488.274093750002,"end":8497.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8497.62284375,"end":8500.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8500.15409375,"end":8500.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8500.289093750001,"end":8508.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8510.32971875,"end":8515.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8515.02096875,"end":8534.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8534.258468750002,"end":8537.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8538.055343750002,"end":8540.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8540.87346875,"end":8547.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8540.907218750002,"end":8541.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8541.02534375,"end":8541.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8541.160343750002,"end":8541.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8541.261593750001,"end":8541.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8547.77534375,"end":8558.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8554.305968750003,"end":8554.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8555.43659375,"end":8560.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8558.946593750003,"end":8559.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8559.402218750001,"end":8559.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8560.43159375,"end":8560.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8560.58346875,"end":8560.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8560.85346875,"end":8570.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8561.44409375,"end":8561.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8571.56909375,"end":8585.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8585.879093750002,"end":8590.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8591.22846875,"end":8600.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8600.98221875,"end":8603.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8604.593468750001,"end":8609.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8609.53784375,"end":8609.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8609.63909375,"end":8623.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8624.20221875,"end":8643.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8643.65909375,"end":8644.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8644.789718750002,"end":8646.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8647.152218750001,"end":8673.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8673.96659375,"end":8674.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8675.14784375,"end":8676.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8676.17721875,"end":8699.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8699.532218750002,"end":8701.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8702.316593750002,"end":8718.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8718.870968750001,"end":8724.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8725.789718750002,"end":8738.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8739.10409375,"end":8748.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8749.515968750002,"end":8751.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8752.249718750001,"end":8786.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8786.30346875,"end":8786.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8786.894093750001,"end":8802.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8792.496593750002,"end":8793.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8794.504718750002,"end":8794.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8802.53721875,"end":8807.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8807.66721875,"end":8813.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8812.25721875,"end":8812.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8812.274093750002,"end":8812.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8812.29096875,"end":8812.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8813.050343750001,"end":8820.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8815.024718750003,"end":8817.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8817.50534375,"end":8817.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8818.500968750002,"end":8819.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8819.61471875,"end":8819.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8820.62721875,"end":8869.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8869.969718750002,"end":8871.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8870.35784375,"end":8870.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8870.374718750001,"end":8886.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8871.03284375,"end":8871.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8892.98721875,"end":8893.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8897.121593750002,"end":8898.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8899.24784375,"end":8901.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8905.086593750002,"end":8905.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8905.812218750001,"end":8908.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8908.360343750002,"end":8935.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8935.512218750002,"end":8937.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8938.49909375,"end":8939.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8940.422843750002,"end":8944.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8945.23221875,"end":8954.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8955.05346875,"end":8961.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8960.48721875,"end":8960.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8961.38159375,"end":8985.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8985.715343750002,"end":8986.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8986.727843750003,"end":8987.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8987.250968750002,"end":8992.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8993.055968750003,"end":9003.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9003.45096875,"end":9006.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9006.707843750002,"end":9012.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9012.78284375,"end":9041.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9018.01409375,"end":9018.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9041.63909375,"end":9075.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9075.945968750002,"end":9078.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9079.000343750002,"end":9081.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9082.39221875,"end":9083.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9082.78034375,"end":9083.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9084.434093750002,"end":9086.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9084.45096875,"end":9084.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9086.121593750002,"end":9124.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9086.35784375,"end":9086.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9124.259093750003,"end":9128.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9127.617218750001,"end":9135.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9135.734093750001,"end":9137.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9138.40034375,"end":9142.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9142.24784375,"end":9144.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9142.26471875,"end":9142.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9145.015343750001,"end":9151.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9152.136593750001,"end":9153.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9153.75659375,"end":9154.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9154.735343750002,"end":9171.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9171.52596875,"end":9183.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9183.254093750002,"end":9183.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9183.65909375,"end":9207.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9208.02659375,"end":9210.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9209.91659375,"end":9217.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9219.687218750001,"end":9226.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9224.98596875,"end":9231.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9232.090343750002,"end":9240.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9239.532218750002,"end":9242.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9242.805968750003,"end":9246.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9245.894093750001,"end":9248.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9248.222843750002,"end":9250.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9249.117218750001,"end":9254.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9252.930968750003,"end":9255.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9254.702843750001,"end":9272.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9257.605343750001,"end":9257.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9273.14721875,"end":9297.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9279.32346875,"end":9279.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9282.597218750001,"end":9282.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9282.64784375,"end":9284.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9284.031593750002,"end":9284.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9287.558468750001,"end":9287.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9297.531593750002,"end":9305.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9313.00596875,"end":9316.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9320.39721875,"end":9320.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9320.86971875,"end":9393.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9394.259093750003,"end":9398.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9398.157218750002,"end":9404.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9403.38846875,"end":9403.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9404.02971875,"end":9421.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9421.714718750001,"end":9425.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9425.207843750002,"end":9425.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9425.477843750003,"end":9448.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9434.18534375,"end":9434.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9448.562843750002,"end":9451.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9451.38096875,"end":9455.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9451.465343750002,"end":9451.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9455.75159375,"end":9457.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9458.14784375,"end":9460.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9458.33346875,"end":9533.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9470.78721875,"end":9472.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9481.48596875,"end":9482.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9534.304718750001,"end":9536.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9536.937218750001,"end":9546.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9546.45471875,"end":9548.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9548.15909375,"end":9556.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9556.64721875,"end":9560.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9561.675968750002,"end":9569.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9564.49409375,"end":9566.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9568.965968750003,"end":9570.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9570.602843750003,"end":9572.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9573.25221875,"end":9580.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9581.26784375,"end":9585.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9585.419093750003,"end":9586.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9586.95471875,"end":9587.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9587.49471875,"end":9602.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9601.61909375,"end":9603.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9603.559718750003,"end":9647.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9648.09284375,"end":9669.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9669.355343750001,"end":9674.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9675.44721875,"end":9679.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9675.480968750002,"end":9676.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9678.97409375,"end":9691.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9681.30284375,"end":9681.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9692.085968750001,"end":9705.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9700.118468750003,"end":9700.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9705.332843750002,"end":9705.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9705.855968750002,"end":9709.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9709.399718750003,"end":9709.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9709.754093750002,"end":9725.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9720.250343750002,"end":9720.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9723.06846875,"end":9725.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9727.86096875,"end":9735.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9742.84596875,"end":9746.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9750.55784375,"end":9750.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9750.574718750002,"end":9750.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9750.60846875,"end":9750.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9750.86159375,"end":9750.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9750.91221875,"end":9751.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9751.047218750002,"end":9751.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9751.249718750001,"end":9777.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9777.06846875,"end":9777.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9777.08534375,"end":9777.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9777.76034375,"end":9781.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9782.08034375,"end":9784.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9784.30784375,"end":9788.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9788.20596875,"end":9797.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9794.53409375,"end":9795.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9795.124718750001,"end":9795.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9795.175343750001,"end":9795.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9796.879718750002,"end":9797.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9797.52096875,"end":9799.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9799.79909375,"end":9807.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9807.56159375,"end":9808.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9808.81034375,"end":9810.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9809.535968750002,"end":9810.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9810.160343750002,"end":9817.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9814.075343750003,"end":9814.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9814.109093750001,"end":9814.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9814.19346875,"end":9814.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9814.26096875,"end":9814.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9817.09596875,"end":9817.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9817.399718750003,"end":9830.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9830.039093750001,"end":9836.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9836.97471875,"end":9839.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9839.387843750003,"end":9847.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9844.72034375,"end":9847.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9847.69034375,"end":9852.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9853.05659375,"end":9856.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9856.95471875,"end":9857.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9857.258468750002,"end":9858.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9859.165343750003,"end":9865.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9866.35409375,"end":9877.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9878.01471875,"end":9881.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9882.26721875,"end":9884.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9885.43971875,"end":9886.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9886.60409375,"end":9888.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9888.325343750003,"end":9890.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9890.890343750001,"end":9892.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9892.03784375,"end":9892.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9892.18971875,"end":9892.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9892.274093750002,"end":9897.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9898.63596875,"end":9901.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9901.84221875,"end":9904.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9904.356593750003,"end":9904.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9904.778468750003,"end":9904.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9904.96409375,"end":9914.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9915.274718750003,"end":9926.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9926.63159375,"end":9929.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9929.027843750002,"end":9929.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9929.58471875,"end":9929.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9930.040343750003,"end":9930.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9930.074093750001,"end":9931.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9932.132843750001,"end":9943.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9943.422218750002,"end":9945.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9946.476593750001,"end":9959.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9959.976593750001,"end":9962.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9963.48659375,"end":9964.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9965.44409375,"end":9967.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9968.009093750003,"end":9971.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9971.805968750003,"end":9990.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9992.07284375,"end":9993.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9994.739093750002,"end":9998.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9998.468468750001,"end":10002.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10002.214718750001,"end":10003.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10002.704093750002,"end":10006.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10006.63596875,"end":10017.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10016.946593750003,"end":10018.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10018.95471875,"end":10026.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10019.00534375,"end":10020.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10020.23721875,"end":10020.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10026.683468750001,"end":10032.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10032.539093750001,"end":10040.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10041.38159375,"end":10048.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10049.160968750002,"end":10049.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10050.02159375,"end":10064.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10064.98971875,"end":10070.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10070.64284375,"end":10075.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10075.300343750001,"end":10075.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10076.144093750001,"end":10079.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10079.99159375,"end":10081.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10080.902843750002,"end":10090.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10082.08409375,"end":10082.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10091.196593750003,"end":10094.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10093.27221875,"end":10094.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10095.094718750002,"end":10096.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10096.63034375,"end":10098.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10097.355968750002,"end":10100.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10098.97596875,"end":10101.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10100.59596875,"end":10100.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10100.66346875,"end":10100.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10101.43971875,"end":10102.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10102.08096875,"end":10105.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10106.012843750003,"end":10124.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10124.575343750003,"end":10136.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10137.012218750002,"end":10149.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10149.027218750001,"end":10150.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10150.59659375,"end":10154.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10150.86659375,"end":10151.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10153.347218750001,"end":10162.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10163.219093750002,"end":10164.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10164.56909375,"end":10166.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10166.965343750002,"end":10167.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10167.20159375,"end":10167.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10167.269093750001,"end":10168.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10167.539093750001,"end":10167.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10168.602218750002,"end":10168.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10168.78784375,"end":10170.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10169.024093750002,"end":10169.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10169.074718750002,"end":10176.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10195.09596875,"end":10198.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10197.964718750001,"end":10199.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10199.04471875,"end":10200.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10200.344093750002,"end":10201.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10203.68534375,"end":10204.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10204.90034375,"end":10206.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10206.97596875,"end":10207.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10207.617218750001,"end":10215.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10215.97034375,"end":10216.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10217.50596875,"end":10219.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10219.750343750002,"end":10220.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10221.25221875,"end":10222.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10223.14221875,"end":10225.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10225.69034375,"end":10229.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10230.972218750001,"end":10234.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10234.87034375,"end":10236.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10237.11471875,"end":10241.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10242.29534375,"end":10242.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10243.493468750003,"end":10244.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10244.23596875,"end":10255.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10256.41971875,"end":10257.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10257.516593750002,"end":10259.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10260.18284375,"end":10261.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10262.07284375,"end":10262.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10264.637843750003,"end":10265.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10266.679718750001,"end":10267.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10267.945343750001,"end":10269.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10270.223468750002,"end":10271.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10272.97409375,"end":10274.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10274.965343750002,"end":10278.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10279.808468750001,"end":10282.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10283.976593750001,"end":10288.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10289.02221875,"end":10290.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10290.91221875,"end":10297.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10298.016593750002,"end":10301.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10301.83034375,"end":10303.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10304.41221875,"end":10306.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10308.090968750003,"end":10308.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10308.95159375,"end":10310.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10311.077843750001,"end":10312.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10312.63034375,"end":10313.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10314.60471875,"end":10314.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10315.27971875,"end":10316.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10317.203468750002,"end":10319.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10319.987843750001,"end":10321.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10322.55284375,"end":10327.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10327.78409375,"end":10329.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10329.84284375,"end":10330.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10331.78346875,"end":10332.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10333.84221875,"end":10337.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10337.90909375,"end":10338.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10339.37721875,"end":10339.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10340.44034375,"end":10341.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10342.54971875,"end":10344.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10344.895343750002,"end":10345.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10346.937218750001,"end":10348.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10349.40096875,"end":10350.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10351.915343750003,"end":10353.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10353.94034375,"end":10357.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10359.03659375,"end":10359.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10359.930968750003,"end":10362.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10362.968468750001,"end":10364.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10364.402843750002,"end":10364.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10366.05659375,"end":10368.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10369.07721875,"end":10369.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10370.528468750003,"end":10374.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10374.780968750001,"end":10376.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10376.65409375,"end":10378.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10379.23596875,"end":10380.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10380.61971875,"end":10382.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10383.555968750003,"end":10384.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10385.817218750002,"end":10387.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10387.977218750002,"end":10393.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10393.883468750002,"end":10394.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10394.49096875,"end":10396.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10397.140343750001,"end":10398.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10400.785343750002,"end":10402.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10402.540343750003,"end":10404.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10404.59909375,"end":10406.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10407.113468750002,"end":10408.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10408.497218750003,"end":10409.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10409.99909375,"end":10411.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10411.99034375,"end":10413.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10414.62284375,"end":10414.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10415.53409375,"end":10416.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10416.765968750002,"end":10417.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10418.48721875,"end":10419.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10420.44471875,"end":10422.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10422.85784375,"end":10423.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10424.64659375,"end":10426.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10427.66721875,"end":10430.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10430.82284375,"end":10433.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10434.14721875,"end":10435.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10435.93596875,"end":10437.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10438.230968750002,"end":10440.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10441.774718750003,"end":10443.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10443.47909375,"end":10446.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10447.07346875,"end":10447.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10448.28846875,"end":10448.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10449.081593750001,"end":10452.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10453.18221875,"end":10456.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10457.55284375,"end":10460.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10461.383468750002,"end":10462.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10462.98659375,"end":10464.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10465.46721875,"end":10466.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10466.63159375,"end":10471.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10471.778468750003,"end":10475.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10475.676593750002,"end":10478.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10479.18659375,"end":10483.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10483.675343750001,"end":10491.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10493.074718750002,"end":10494.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10495.335968750001,"end":10495.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10496.753468750001,"end":10498.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10499.132843750001,"end":10501.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10502.33909375,"end":10503.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10504.735343750002,"end":10509.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10509.56159375,"end":10513.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10513.965968750003,"end":10514.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10514.40471875,"end":10515.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10515.46784375,"end":10516.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10516.73346875,"end":10524.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10524.90096875,"end":10528.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10529.11971875,"end":10529.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10529.929718750001,"end":10530.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10530.70596875,"end":10531.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10532.17409375,"end":10533.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10533.54096875,"end":10536.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10536.527843750002,"end":10537.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10538.29971875,"end":10540.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10541.742218750001,"end":10542.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10542.88971875,"end":10546.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10549.04909375,"end":10551.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10552.20471875,"end":10553.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10553.90909375,"end":10554.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10554.53346875,"end":10555.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10555.782218750002,"end":10557.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10557.48659375,"end":10558.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10559.29221875,"end":10559.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10560.23721875,"end":10560.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10560.675968750002,"end":10561.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10561.85721875,"end":10562.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10562.886593750001,"end":10565.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10566.02534375,"end":10567.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10567.206593750001,"end":10567.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10568.55659375,"end":10572.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10574.05784375,"end":10575.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10575.762218750002,"end":10577.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10577.53409375,"end":10579.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10579.812218750001,"end":10581.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10582.64721875,"end":10583.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10583.355968750002,"end":10585.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10586.02221875,"end":10588.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10589.70096875,"end":10593.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10594.695968750002,"end":10595.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10595.860343750002,"end":10597.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10596.636593750001,"end":10597.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10598.745968750001,"end":10605.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10605.293468750002,"end":10608.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10609.07346875,"end":10617.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10618.692218750002,"end":10621.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10630.15034375,"end":10634.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10635.31409375,"end":10636.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10640.17409375,"end":10686.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10686.867218750001,"end":10693.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10693.87034375,"end":10701.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10701.81846875,"end":10706.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10706.543468750002,"end":10724.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10725.34221875,"end":10731.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10733.10471875,"end":10733.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10733.50971875,"end":10737.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10738.184093750002,"end":10738.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10738.26846875,"end":10745.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10743.668468750002,"end":10744.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10745.828468750002,"end":10751.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10751.92034375,"end":10752.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10753.08471875,"end":10760.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10758.535343750002,"end":10759.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10760.172218750002,"end":10760.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10760.374718750001,"end":10761.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10761.89346875,"end":10764.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10764.94784375,"end":10766.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10766.820968750002,"end":10768.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10769.250968750002,"end":10771.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10772.136593750001,"end":10814.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10815.79221875,"end":10853.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10850.031593750002,"end":10855.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10856.24159375,"end":10862.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10863.02534375,"end":10875.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10875.85034375,"end":10883.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10876.559093750002,"end":10877.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10884.304718750001,"end":10899.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10899.82971875,"end":10904.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10904.90909375,"end":10906.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10906.309718750003,"end":10922.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10920.180968750003,"end":10932.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10926.981593750003,"end":10927.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10933.680968750003,"end":10937.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10935.95909375,"end":10939.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10938.844718750002,"end":10943.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10943.535968750002,"end":10947.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10947.484718750002,"end":10963.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10963.735343750002,"end":10966.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10967.07659375,"end":10991.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10992.28784375,"end":10996.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10996.489718750003,"end":11000.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11000.35409375,"end":11005.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11005.51784375,"end":11008.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11008.707218750002,"end":11030.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11031.15096875,"end":11036.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11031.387218750002,"end":11032.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11036.78721875,"end":11037.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11038.05284375,"end":11040.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11040.31409375,"end":11047.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11047.18221875,"end":11054.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11054.82659375,"end":11061.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11061.94784375,"end":11078.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11078.02971875,"end":11078.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11079.66659375,"end":11081.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11081.57346875,"end":11087.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11087.93534375,"end":11088.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11088.94784375,"end":11093.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11092.74471875,"end":11100.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11101.249718750001,"end":11103.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11103.98346875,"end":11106.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11106.04221875,"end":11116.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11116.875968750002,"end":11121.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11119.137218750002,"end":11124.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11124.16596875,"end":11124.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11125.296593750001,"end":11128.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11128.840343750002,"end":11129.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11130.055343750002,"end":11135.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11135.99534375,"end":11138.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11150.69346875,"end":11151.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11151.11534375,"end":11152.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11152.60034375,"end":11157.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11154.270968750003,"end":11155.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11156.515343750001,"end":11157.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11159.92409375,"end":11165.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11165.13846875,"end":11169.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11170.42034375,"end":11177.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11177.64284375,"end":11189.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11190.231593750003,"end":11197.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11197.403468750003,"end":11236.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11237.954093750002,"end":11240.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11240.45159375,"end":11243.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11243.489093750002,"end":11257.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11257.630343750003,"end":11261.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11261.81534375,"end":11264.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11266.219718750002,"end":11274.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11274.35346875,"end":11274.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11275.31534375,"end":11289.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11289.895343750002,"end":11291.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11291.59971875,"end":11292.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11292.325343750003,"end":11310.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11310.38159375,"end":11316.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11317.13159375,"end":11317.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11318.19471875,"end":11322.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11323.054718750001,"end":11338.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11340.520343750002,"end":11352.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11352.82221875,"end":11364.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11358.20534375,"end":11358.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11363.099093750003,"end":11384.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11384.93534375,"end":11386.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11386.977218750002,"end":11390.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11391.22971875,"end":11392.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11393.17034375,"end":11414.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11415.040343750003,"end":11415.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11416.37346875,"end":11418.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11419.410968750002,"end":11420.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11420.28846875,"end":11421.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11421.351593750001,"end":11425.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11426.414093750001,"end":11432.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11432.691593750002,"end":11436.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11437.31534375,"end":11438.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11438.93534375,"end":11456.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11457.34596875,"end":11469.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11470.440968750001,"end":11477.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11477.39346875,"end":11480.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11480.66721875,"end":11490.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11490.657218750002,"end":11495.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11494.504718750002,"end":11494.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11494.656593750002,"end":11494.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11494.774718750003,"end":11494.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11494.859093750001,"end":11494.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11494.94346875,"end":11495.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11496.546593750001,"end":11501.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11502.26721875,"end":11508.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11517.218468750001,"end":11518.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11519.15909375,"end":11521.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11521.707218750002,"end":11522.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11526.01034375,"end":11526.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11526.75284375,"end":11575.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11575.84221875,"end":11576.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11576.93909375,"end":11576.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11576.989718750003,"end":11577.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11577.445343750001,"end":11577.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11577.95159375,"end":11577.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11577.985343750002,"end":11578.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11578.035968750002,"end":11579.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11580.26346875,"end":11581.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11582.33909375,"end":11594.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11594.050343750001,"end":11629.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11630.46659375,"end":11634.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11634.567218750002,"end":11639.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11639.528468750003,"end":11644.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11644.118468750003,"end":11644.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11644.70909375,"end":11644.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11644.72596875,"end":11651.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11651.644718750002,"end":11683.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11659.96409375,"end":11660.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11683.89284375,"end":11683.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11683.977218750002,"end":11684.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11684.51721875,"end":11689.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11690.254718750002,"end":11690.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11690.27159375,"end":11705.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11700.312218750001,"end":11701.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11705.070968750002,"end":11705.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11706.15096875,"end":11710.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11710.36971875,"end":11710.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11710.487843750001,"end":11710.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11710.757843750001,"end":11711.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11710.79159375,"end":11711.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11711.500343750002,"end":11711.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11711.51721875,"end":11711.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11711.770343750002,"end":11711.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11712.00659375,"end":11726.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11720.27534375,"end":11720.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11722.28346875,"end":11722.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11726.637218750002,"end":11774.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11731.328468750002,"end":11731.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11731.63221875,"end":11731.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11774.680343750002,"end":11776.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11775.524093750002,"end":11775.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11775.55784375,"end":11775.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11775.64221875,"end":11775.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11777.39721875,"end":11784.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11790.52596875,"end":11793.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11793.42846875,"end":11794.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11795.352218750002,"end":11795.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11795.504093750002,"end":11795.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11795.655968750001,"end":11795.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11795.672843750002,"end":11796.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11795.74034375,"end":11796.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11800.38096875,"end":11800.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11800.80284375,"end":11800.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11800.97159375,"end":11801.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11801.039093750001,"end":11802.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11802.034718750001,"end":11802.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11802.456593750001,"end":11802.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11802.96284375,"end":11824.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11824.984718750002,"end":11825.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11826.06471875,"end":11829.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11829.794093750003,"end":11834.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11834.637218750002,"end":11838.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11839.56471875,"end":11861.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11861.687843750002,"end":11868.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11869.21409375,"end":11876.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11876.58846875,"end":11878.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11878.394093750001,"end":11881.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11881.566593750002,"end":11894.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11895.117218750001,"end":11916.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11916.88596875,"end":11923.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11923.99034375,"end":11945.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11945.640968750002,"end":11951.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11952.27284375,"end":11955.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11955.52971875,"end":11984.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11985.364718750003,"end":11991.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11990.07284375,"end":11990.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11991.81096875,"end":11993.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11993.532218750002,"end":12006.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12006.37409375,"end":12006.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12006.74534375,"end":12008.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12006.812843750002,"end":12007.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12007.69034375,"end":12020.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12019.637843750003,"end":12020.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12021.156593750002,"end":12021.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12021.679718750001,"end":12033.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12033.239093750002,"end":12053.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12051.227843750003,"end":12051.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12053.843468750001,"end":12059.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12055.024718750003,"end":12055.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12059.969093750002,"end":12081.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12081.83909375,"end":12083.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12082.21034375,"end":12082.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12082.227218750002,"end":12082.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12082.800968750002,"end":12082.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12082.868468750003,"end":12082.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12084.40409375,"end":12092.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12093.246593750002,"end":12097.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12097.937843750002,"end":12099.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12100.60409375,"end":12107.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12107.759093750003,"end":12112.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12113.125343750002,"end":12118.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12118.829093750002,"end":12125.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12127.047218750002,"end":12128.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12132.81846875,"end":12137.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12137.57721875,"end":12139.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12139.58534375,"end":12140.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12140.715968750003,"end":12143.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12143.41596875,"end":12144.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12144.47909375,"end":12144.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12145.829093750002,"end":12147.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12145.96409375,"end":12146.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12147.837218750003,"end":12149.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12149.659718750001,"end":12153.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12154.06409375,"end":12157.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12157.624718750001,"end":12158.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12158.23221875,"end":12166.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12168.62721875,"end":12170.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12170.88846875,"end":12171.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12171.833468750003,"end":12173.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12174.398468750001,"end":12174.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12174.90471875,"end":12175.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12175.512218750002,"end":12176.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12176.37284375,"end":12177.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12179.66346875,"end":12187.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12188.13471875,"end":12190.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12190.699718750002,"end":12192.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12192.74159375,"end":12193.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12193.028468750003,"end":12201.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12201.70221875,"end":12204.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12204.48659375,"end":12208.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12208.890968750002,"end":12211.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12211.35471875,"end":12224.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12224.820968750002,"end":12227.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12228.094718750002,"end":12229.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12229.680968750003,"end":12246.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12246.79221875,"end":12248.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12248.58096875,"end":12253.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12253.778468750003,"end":12265.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12265.87784375,"end":12266.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12266.434718750003,"end":12271.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12271.969718750002,"end":12275.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12275.547218750002,"end":12275.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12275.83409375,"end":12282.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12282.33096875,"end":12291.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12292.742843750002,"end":12305.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12305.652218750001,"end":12307.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12308.132843750001,"end":12318.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12318.409718750001,"end":12322.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12319.30409375,"end":12320.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12321.649718750003,"end":12322.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12322.544093750003,"end":12323.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12323.337218750003,"end":12323.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12323.52284375,"end":12323.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12323.539718750002,"end":12323.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12323.57346875,"end":12323.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12323.640968750002,"end":12323.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12323.65784375,"end":12323.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12323.67471875,"end":12323.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12323.742218750001,"end":12323.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12323.97846875,"end":12323.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12324.34971875,"end":12324.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12325.19346875,"end":12327.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12328.062218750001,"end":12330.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12329.00721875,"end":12329.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12330.05346875,"end":12330.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12330.070343750001,"end":12330.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12330.120968750001,"end":12333.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12333.884093750003,"end":12334.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12334.187843750002,"end":12334.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12334.20471875,"end":12334.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12334.339718750001,"end":12339.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12340.87034375,"end":12342.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12342.524093750002,"end":12343.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12344.211593750002,"end":12346.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12346.320968750002,"end":12347.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12347.40096875,"end":12350.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12349.66221875,"end":12350.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12350.809718750003,"end":12353.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12353.543468750002,"end":12356.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12356.47971875,"end":12369.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12370.148468750001,"end":12374.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12374.19846875,"end":12374.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12374.535968750002,"end":12374.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12374.56971875,"end":12374.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12374.62034375,"end":12375.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12376.274093750002,"end":12376.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12376.594718750002,"end":12380.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12380.020343750002,"end":12386.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12386.550968750002,"end":12389.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12389.41971875,"end":12389.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12390.364718750003,"end":12393.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12393.790343750003,"end":12394.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12394.43159375,"end":12394.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12395.511593750001,"end":12400.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12400.962218750003,"end":12400.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12400.995968750001,"end":12401.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12401.333468750003,"end":12407.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12406.21034375,"end":12407.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12407.83034375,"end":12412.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12412.62284375,"end":12412.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12412.67346875,"end":12413.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12412.707218750002,"end":12413.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12414.242843750002,"end":12417.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12416.706593750001,"end":12423.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12423.827843750001,"end":12425.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12424.890968750002,"end":12426.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12426.59534375,"end":12428.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12428.56971875,"end":12434.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12434.67846875,"end":12441.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12441.968468750001,"end":12454.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12455.114093750002,"end":12459.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12460.26096875,"end":12461.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12461.813468750002,"end":12464.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12464.83409375,"end":12466.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12466.79159375,"end":12469.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12469.778468750003,"end":12471.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12473.32221875,"end":12475.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12475.769093750001,"end":12482.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12482.114093750002,"end":12483.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12483.059093750002,"end":12489.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12489.690968750001,"end":12494.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12494.26409375,"end":12497.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12501.047843750002,"end":12501.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12502.617218750001,"end":12504.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12504.524093750002,"end":12504.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12505.28346875,"end":12506.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12506.02596875,"end":12506.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12507.46034375,"end":12514.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12514.969718750002,"end":12520.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12520.234718750002,"end":12532.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12533.464718750001,"end":12541.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12542.121593750002,"end":12550.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12550.69409375,"end":12553.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12554.11971875,"end":12563.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12563.535968750002,"end":12564.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12565.375343750002,"end":12568.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12570.45471875,"end":12572.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12573.070343750001,"end":12573.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12573.10409375,"end":12574.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12574.875968750002,"end":12575.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12576.040343750003,"end":12581.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12579.364718750003,"end":12580.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12581.035343750002,"end":12581.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12581.37284375,"end":12582.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12582.030968750001,"end":12582.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12582.503468750001,"end":12582.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12582.55409375,"end":12582.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12582.790343750003,"end":12586.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12587.29596875,"end":12593.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12594.83909375,"end":12596.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12596.965343750002,"end":12597.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12597.269093750001,"end":12599.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12599.294093750003,"end":12601.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12602.16284375,"end":12605.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12605.36909375,"end":12615.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12615.49409375,"end":12620.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12620.894093750001,"end":12634.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12635.085968750001,"end":12637.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12637.02659375,"end":12641.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12640.215968750003,"end":12640.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12640.23284375,"end":12640.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12640.958468750003,"end":12640.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12640.97534375,"end":12640.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12641.86971875,"end":12643.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12643.72596875,"end":12645.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12645.97034375,"end":12646.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12646.004093750002,"end":12647.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12647.40471875,"end":12650.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12651.387218750002,"end":12661.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12663.11534375,"end":12671.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12669.949718750002,"end":12672.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12671.907218750002,"end":12678.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12676.66596875,"end":12678.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12679.09596875,"end":12685.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12685.305968750003,"end":12685.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12686.672843750002,"end":12687.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12687.17909375,"end":12687.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12687.31409375,"end":12695.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12687.347843750002,"end":12689.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12690.351593750001,"end":12692.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12692.039093750001,"end":12692.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12692.69721875,"end":12692.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12692.76471875,"end":12692.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12692.96721875,"end":12693.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12693.794093750003,"end":12693.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12695.65034375,"end":12702.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12703.19346875,"end":12706.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12707.09159375,"end":12713.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12714.347843750002,"end":12720.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12720.844718750002,"end":12729.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12729.974093750003,"end":12739.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12768.786593750003,"end":12770.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12787.93971875,"end":12787.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12787.973468750002,"end":12788.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12788.024093750002,"end":12788.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12788.969093750002,"end":12791.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12791.01096875,"end":12791.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13164.25221875,"end":13181.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13183.30409375,"end":13187.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13191.167843750001,"end":13194.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13195.082843750002,"end":13195.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13196.449718750002,"end":13198.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13199.16659375,"end":13199.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13200.17909375,"end":13203.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13204.718468750001,"end":13208.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13209.274718750003,"end":13221.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13220.445968750002,"end":13223.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13222.605968750002,"end":13223.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13223.06159375,"end":13224.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13224.73221875,"end":13226.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13226.132843750001,"end":13229.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13231.988468750002,"end":13233.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13233.50721875,"end":13234.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13234.148468750001,"end":13235.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13234.70534375,"end":13235.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13235.481593750003,"end":13235.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13235.684093750002,"end":13236.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13236.747218750003,"end":13238.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13237.55721875,"end":13238.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13239.801593750002,"end":13245.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13245.99471875,"end":13266.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13269.180968750003,"end":13287.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13288.317218750002,"end":13292.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13293.56534375,"end":13297.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13297.530968750001,"end":13308.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13308.314093750003,"end":13316.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13317.08909375,"end":13318.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13318.320968750002,"end":13320.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13320.599093750003,"end":13348.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13349.18534375,"end":13356.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13357.57221875,"end":13368.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13369.03034375,"end":13388.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13388.672843750002,"end":13398.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13399.03409375,"end":13400.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13400.755343750003,"end":13402.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13402.898468750001,"end":13412.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13413.47909375,"end":13429.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13430.219093750002,"end":13431.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13432.227218750002,"end":13450.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13450.317218750002,"end":13452.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13453.320968750002,"end":13454.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13458.24846875,"end":13460.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13461.488468750002,"end":13476.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13477.45221875,"end":13480.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13481.14784375,"end":13483.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13484.657843750003,"end":13500.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13500.672218750002,"end":13502.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13502.34284375,"end":13509.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13509.683468750001,"end":13514.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13515.505343750003,"end":13518.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13518.964718750001,"end":13519.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13519.31909375,"end":13520.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13526.558468750001,"end":13540.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13541.239718750003,"end":13553.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13554.790343750003,"end":13557.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13559.886593750001,"end":13568.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13568.914718750002,"end":13596.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13597.26471875,"end":13602.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13602.917843750001,"end":13604.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13605.28034375,"end":13605.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13605.921593750001,"end":13606.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13607.625968750002,"end":13608.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13608.368468750003,"end":13608.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13608.97596875,"end":13609.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13609.43159375,"end":13609.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13609.769093750001,"end":13609.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13609.97159375,"end":13610.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13610.730968750002,"end":13610.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13610.74784375,"end":13617.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13618.155968750001,"end":13629.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13629.917843750001,"end":13630.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13631.36909375,"end":13632.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13633.07346875,"end":13638.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13638.321593750003,"end":13640.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13640.430968750003,"end":13643.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13644.14346875,"end":13649.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13649.492843750002,"end":13652.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13653.171593750001,"end":13655.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13656.462218750003,"end":13658.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13659.17909375,"end":13664.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13665.102218750002,"end":13666.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13666.587218750003,"end":13671.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13672.544093750003,"end":13675.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13676.13846875,"end":13680.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13681.36971875,"end":13682.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13683.023468750001,"end":13685.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13685.655968750001,"end":13696.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13696.253468750001,"end":13696.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13697.114093750002,"end":13705.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13705.028468750003,"end":13710.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13711.06971875,"end":13724.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13724.50221875,"end":13726.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13724.704718750003,"end":13724.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13725.177218750003,"end":13726.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13726.274093750002,"end":13726.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13726.34159375,"end":13732.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13728.34971875,"end":13729.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13730.121593750002,"end":13730.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13731.083468750003,"end":13751.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13740.48284375,"end":13740.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13740.516593750002,"end":13742.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13752.312218750001,"end":13760.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13758.859718750002,"end":13760.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13760.800343750001,"end":13761.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13760.817218750002,"end":13761.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13761.120968750001,"end":13761.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13761.42471875,"end":13761.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13761.610343750002,"end":13762.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13762.032218750002,"end":13770.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13771.33034375,"end":13773.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13772.17409375,"end":13773.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13773.844718750002,"end":13777.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13778.55284375,"end":13780.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13780.020968750003,"end":13780.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13780.594718750002,"end":13780.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13780.61159375,"end":13780.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13780.965968750003,"end":13782.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13782.78846875,"end":13783.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13783.919093750003,"end":13783.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13783.93596875,"end":13785.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13783.93596875,"end":13791.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13785.927218750003,"end":13785.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13786.382843750001,"end":13786.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13786.399718750003,"end":13788.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13788.89721875,"end":13788.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13791.63096875,"end":13801.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13796.38971875,"end":13796.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13796.406593750002,"end":13796.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13798.48221875,"end":13799.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13799.039093750001,"end":13800.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13802.802218750003,"end":13808.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13804.911593750003,"end":13805.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13806.008468750002,"end":13809.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13808.57346875,"end":13808.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13809.957218750002,"end":13817.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13817.719718750002,"end":13818.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13818.64784375,"end":13818.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13818.68159375,"end":13827.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13818.69846875,"end":13819.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13821.550343750001,"end":13821.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13825.90409375,"end":13826.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13827.372218750003,"end":13835.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13835.10096875,"end":13840.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13840.872218750003,"end":13843.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13843.63971875,"end":13852.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13854.051593750002,"end":13862.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13854.06846875,"end":13855.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13855.587218750003,"end":13855.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13861.67909375,"end":13861.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13861.72971875,"end":13861.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13861.965968750003,"end":13862.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13862.03346875,"end":13862.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13862.168468750002,"end":13862.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13862.97846875,"end":13866.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13866.57284375,"end":13866.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13867.21409375,"end":13871.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13872.15846875,"end":13872.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13872.42846875,"end":13872.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13873.96409375,"end":13876.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13876.410968750002,"end":13882.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13884.03846875,"end":13887.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13885.962218750003,"end":13886.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13889.421593750001,"end":13890.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13891.817843750003,"end":13893.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13893.89346875,"end":13894.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13894.180343750002,"end":13895.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13895.53034375,"end":13895.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13896.37409375,"end":13896.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13896.441593750002,"end":13896.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13896.458468750003,"end":13896.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13896.74534375,"end":13896.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13897.015343750001,"end":13897.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13897.032218750002,"end":13897.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13897.504718750002,"end":13897.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13898.11221875,"end":13898.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13898.129093750002,"end":13898.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13898.21346875,"end":13901.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13902.195968750002,"end":13906.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13906.97159375,"end":13907.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13907.562218750001,"end":13907.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13907.882843750001,"end":13907.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13907.899718750003,"end":13908.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13908.034718750001,"end":13908.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13909.35096875,"end":13909.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13909.367843750002,"end":13922.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13922.327843750001,"end":13922.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13922.564093750003,"end":13922.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13922.597843750002,"end":13922.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13922.969093750002,"end":13925.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13925.989718750003,"end":13929.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13929.297218750002,"end":13929.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13929.65159375,"end":13931.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13931.035343750002,"end":13938.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13938.34221875,"end":13944.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13944.45096875,"end":13945.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13945.969718750002,"end":13947.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13947.79221875,"end":13951.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13952.196593750003,"end":13964.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13953.242843750002,"end":13953.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13958.879093750002,"end":13959.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13960.212218750003,"end":13960.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13960.70159375,"end":13960.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13961.984093750001,"end":13962.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13963.80659375,"end":13963.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13963.82346875,"end":13964.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13964.430968750003,"end":13969.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13966.50659375,"end":13966.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13969.155968750001,"end":13969.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13970.117843750002,"end":13970.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13970.15159375,"end":13970.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13970.168468750002,"end":13970.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13970.235968750003,"end":13970.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13970.40471875,"end":13974.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13970.590343750002,"end":13971.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13973.03721875,"end":13974.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13974.184718750003,"end":13974.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13974.454718750003,"end":13976.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13976.648468750001,"end":13978.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13979.01096875,"end":13983.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13982.301593750002,"end":13982.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13983.094718750002,"end":13983.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13983.26346875,"end":13983.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13983.972218750001,"end":14012.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13984.86659375,"end":13986.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14012.035343750002,"end":14012.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14012.102843750003,"end":14012.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14012.153468750003,"end":14018.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14016.051593750002,"end":14022.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14022.126593750003,"end":14033.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14033.83784375,"end":14039.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14039.06909375,"end":14045.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14040.16596875,"end":14040.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14046.46034375,"end":14047.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14047.962218750003,"end":14048.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14048.367218750001,"end":14048.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14048.40096875,"end":14048.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14048.77221875,"end":14048.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14048.856593750003,"end":14048.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14048.99159375,"end":14050.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14051.08409375,"end":14052.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14052.36659375,"end":14052.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14052.61971875,"end":14053.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14053.125968750002,"end":14053.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14053.176593750002,"end":14053.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14053.227218750002,"end":14053.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14053.446593750003,"end":14053.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14053.46346875,"end":14058.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14053.68284375,"end":14054.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14055.57284375,"end":14056.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14059.20096875,"end":14059.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14060.770343750002,"end":14061.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14062.89659375,"end":14066.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14063.605343750001,"end":14063.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14065.79909375,"end":14085.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14085.72846875,"end":14085.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14085.762218750002,"end":14098.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14086.89284375,"end":14087.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14087.517218750003,"end":14087.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14087.567843750003,"end":14087.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14087.618468750003,"end":14088.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14098.87409375,"end":14106.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14106.46784375,"end":14108.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14109.15096875,"end":14114.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14115.040343750003,"end":14118.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14118.22971875,"end":14121.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14122.00971875,"end":14122.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14122.161593750003,"end":14141.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14125.064093750003,"end":14125.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14125.097843750002,"end":14125.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14125.114718750003,"end":14125.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14125.23284375,"end":14125.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14141.73659375,"end":14150.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14150.477843750003,"end":14170.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14168.027843750002,"end":14168.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14172.972218750001,"end":14172.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14172.989093750002,"end":14177.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14174.727218750002,"end":14174.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14174.79471875,"end":14175.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14175.267218750003,"end":14175.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14177.039093750001,"end":14183.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14184.160343750002,"end":14184.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14184.970343750003,"end":14185.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14185.08846875,"end":14185.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14185.13909375,"end":14185.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14185.324718750002,"end":14185.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14185.375343750002,"end":14186.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14186.539718750002,"end":14186.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14186.55659375,"end":14193.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14191.129718750002,"end":14191.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14191.21409375,"end":14191.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14191.922843750002,"end":14191.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14192.68221875,"end":14192.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14193.37409375,"end":14193.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14196.833468750003,"end":14213.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14197.37346875,"end":14198.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14203.17846875,"end":14203.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14204.49471875,"end":14204.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14204.528468750003,"end":14205.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14214.062843750002,"end":14221.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14221.555343750002,"end":14222.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14222.348468750002,"end":14225.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14225.26784375,"end":14225.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14231.579093750002,"end":14232.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14232.827843750001,"end":14236.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14237.535968750002,"end":14238.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14239.61159375,"end":14240.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14240.77596875,"end":14243.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14242.699718750002,"end":14243.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14243.93159375,"end":14247.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14248.015343750001,"end":14252.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14251.761593750001,"end":14287.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14289.696593750003,"end":14294.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14291.097218750001,"end":14291.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14291.14784375,"end":14291.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14291.519093750001,"end":14291.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14291.586593750002,"end":14291.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14292.430343750002,"end":14292.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14292.852218750002,"end":14292.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14292.970343750003,"end":14293.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14299.332218750002,"end":14307.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14307.989093750002,"end":14310.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14310.570968750002,"end":14326.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14320.25721875,"end":14320.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14325.640343750001,"end":14326.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14326.028468750003,"end":14327.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14326.63596875,"end":14369.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14371.422218750002,"end":14374.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14371.472843750002,"end":14371.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14371.489718750003,"end":14371.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14371.692218750002,"end":14371.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14374.695968750002,"end":14397.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14397.831593750001,"end":14413.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14413.829093750002,"end":14413.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14413.862843750001,"end":14425.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14425.45596875,"end":14429.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14429.421593750001,"end":14431.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14431.429718750001,"end":14433.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14433.606593750003,"end":14438.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14438.280968750001,"end":14441.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14442.16221875,"end":14447.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14448.270968750003,"end":14449.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14450.903468750003,"end":14454.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14454.04221875,"end":14455.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14456.117843750002,"end":14456.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14456.759093750003,"end":14457.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14464.774718750003,"end":14465.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14470.039718750002,"end":14470.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14473.12784375,"end":14473.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14473.566593750002,"end":14477.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14475.034718750001,"end":14493.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14480.82284375,"end":14481.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14494.00221875,"end":14501.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14494.137218750002,"end":14494.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14498.49096875,"end":14510.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14510.489093750002,"end":14513.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14513.83034375,"end":14513.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14513.93159375,"end":14523.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14522.68971875,"end":14524.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14523.550343750001,"end":14529.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14527.161593750003,"end":14527.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14527.60034375,"end":14527.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14527.97159375,"end":14529.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14529.16971875,"end":14529.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14530.114718750003,"end":14534.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14530.300343750001,"end":14530.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14533.945343750001,"end":14537.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14534.839718750001,"end":14534.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14537.62409375,"end":14544.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14543.294093750003,"end":14543.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14543.327843750001,"end":14543.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14545.20096875,"end":14560.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14560.45596875,"end":14581.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14560.692218750002,"end":14562.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14582.055968750003,"end":14589.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14589.88596875,"end":14609.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14610.895343750002,"end":14628.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14610.92909375,"end":14611.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14613.207218750002,"end":14616.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14629.10346875,"end":14633.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14633.44034375,"end":14654.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14651.496593750002,"end":14653.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14653.707218750002,"end":14653.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14653.724093750003,"end":14653.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14653.74096875,"end":14653.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14653.875968750002,"end":14653.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":14653.89284375,"end":14653.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14654.43284375,"end":14654.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14654.449718750002,"end":14654.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14654.46659375,"end":14654.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14654.652218750001,"end":14654.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14654.90534375,"end":14655.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14657.605343750001,"end":14660.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14660.727218750002,"end":14663.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14663.71409375,"end":14670.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14671.274093750002,"end":14677.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14677.46721875,"end":14678.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14678.985968750003,"end":14681.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14681.922218750002,"end":14691.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14692.92471875,"end":14696.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14696.97471875,"end":14699.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14699.759093750003,"end":14708.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14709.344093750002,"end":14723.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14720.66721875,"end":14721.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14722.270343750002,"end":14734.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14735.01096875,"end":14746.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14746.671593750001,"end":14747.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14747.39721875,"end":14758.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14759.68221875,"end":14760.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14761.285343750002,"end":14761.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14761.31909375,"end":14763.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14763.968468750001,"end":14764.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14765.824718750002,"end":14766.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14766.21284375,"end":14766.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14766.22971875,"end":14766.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14766.26346875,"end":14766.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14768.204093750002,"end":14768.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14768.254718750002,"end":14773.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14768.27159375,"end":14768.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14768.355968750002,"end":14768.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14768.474093750003,"end":14770.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14770.81971875,"end":14771.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14772.06846875,"end":14803.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14803.675343750001,"end":14810.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14805.430343750002,"end":14805.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14805.44721875,"end":14806.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14810.610968750003,"end":14812.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14812.180343750002,"end":14816.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14812.973468750002,"end":14813.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14813.277218750001,"end":14813.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14813.41221875,"end":14813.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14813.93534375,"end":14813.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14815.15034375,"end":14816.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14817.31034375,"end":14848.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":14822.06909375,"end":14822.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14848.934093750002,"end":14850.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14850.030968750001,"end":14850.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14850.942218750002,"end":14860.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14860.392218750003,"end":14860.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14860.628468750001,"end":14860.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14860.695968750002,"end":14861.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14861.97846875,"end":14874.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14874.53346875,"end":14882.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14883.426593750002,"end":14932.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14904.317843750003,"end":14905.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14911.253468750001,"end":14911.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14924.90534375,"end":14924.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14924.922218750002,"end":14925.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14925.833468750003,"end":14926.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14926.57596875,"end":14926.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14926.710968750001,"end":14927.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14927.301593750002,"end":14927.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14932.02659375,"end":14933.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14932.785968750002,"end":14943.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14943.56909375,"end":14955.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14954.48721875,"end":14963.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14962.60409375,"end":14963.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14963.29596875,"end":14963.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14963.39721875,"end":14963.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14963.97096875,"end":14964.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14964.03846875,"end":14964.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14964.966593750003,"end":14982.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14982.145343750002,"end":14987.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14982.16221875,"end":14983.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14988.96284375,"end":14991.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14993.012843750003,"end":14993.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14995.13909375,"end":14995.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14995.155968750001,"end":15012.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14995.324718750002,"end":14995.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14998.547843750002,"end":14999.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14999.72909375,"end":15003.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15003.036593750003,"end":15003.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15003.711593750002,"end":15003.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15009.364718750003,"end":15011.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15011.32221875,"end":15011.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15013.060343750003,"end":15015.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15014.005343750003,"end":15015.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15015.034718750001,"end":15015.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15015.18659375,"end":15016.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15015.827843750001,"end":15020.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15016.03034375,"end":15017.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15017.02596875,"end":15017.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15018.375968750002,"end":15019.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15019.489718750003,"end":15020.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15020.72159375,"end":15020.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15021.24471875,"end":15021.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15021.480968750002,"end":15027.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15025.21034375,"end":15029.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15027.032843750003,"end":15027.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15027.67409375,"end":15027.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15027.84284375,"end":15027.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15029.024093750002,"end":15029.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15029.226593750001,"end":15029.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15029.277218750001,"end":15029.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15029.547218750002,"end":15034.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15029.597843750002,"end":15029.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15029.867843750002,"end":15030.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15030.120968750001,"end":15030.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15030.610343750002,"end":15030.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15030.644093750001,"end":15030.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15030.930968750003,"end":15031.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15033.85034375,"end":15034.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15036.28034375,"end":15041.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15038.305343750002,"end":15038.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15038.96346875,"end":15042.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15041.039093750001,"end":15042.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15042.321593750003,"end":15042.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15042.692843750003,"end":15042.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15042.794093750003,"end":15067.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15046.55721875,"end":15048.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15049.814093750003,"end":15049.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15049.864718750003,"end":15049.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15049.88159375,"end":15049.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15049.898468750001,"end":15049.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15049.949093750001,"end":15051.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15051.09659375,"end":15052.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15052.024718750003,"end":15053.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15058.234718750002,"end":15062.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15062.06534375,"end":15062.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15062.75721875,"end":15062.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15062.774093750002,"end":15062.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15062.993468750003,"end":15064.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15064.42784375,"end":15064.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15064.512218750002,"end":15065.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15067.60034375,"end":15093.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15068.86596875,"end":15068.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15069.034718750001,"end":15069.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15073.92846875,"end":15074.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15075.227843750003,"end":15076.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15076.03784375,"end":15081.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15081.066593750002,"end":15081.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15083.513468750003,"end":15083.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15083.547218750002,"end":15087.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15088.27221875,"end":15088.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15089.183468750001,"end":15089.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15089.402843750002,"end":15089.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15089.419718750003,"end":15089.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15089.470343750003,"end":15094.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15093.97596875,"end":15095.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15095.140343750001,"end":15095.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15095.190968750001,"end":15098.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15095.477843750003,"end":15095.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15095.612843750001,"end":15095.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15095.96721875,"end":15096.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15096.034718750001,"end":15096.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15096.11909375,"end":15097.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15097.114718750003,"end":15100.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15098.97096875,"end":15099.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15099.86534375,"end":15099.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15099.966593750003,"end":15100.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15100.28721875,"end":15100.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15101.08034375,"end":15107.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15103.847843750002,"end":15103.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15103.999718750001,"end":15104.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15104.03346875,"end":15104.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15104.894093750001,"end":15104.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15104.92784375,"end":15106.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15106.024718750003,"end":15109.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15109.349093750003,"end":15119.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15113.871593750002,"end":15117.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15117.027218750001,"end":15121.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15120.95909375,"end":15121.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15121.617218750001,"end":15123.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15121.735343750002,"end":15130.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15127.77659375,"end":15127.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15127.962218750003,"end":15128.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15128.87346875,"end":15136.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15130.054718750001,"end":15130.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15132.09659375,"end":15132.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15132.113468750002,"end":15132.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15132.130343750003,"end":15132.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15132.974093750003,"end":15133.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15134.324093750001,"end":15135.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15136.21409375,"end":15138.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15138.57659375,"end":15149.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15143.21721875,"end":15143.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15143.419718750003,"end":15143.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15144.75284375,"end":15145.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15148.347218750001,"end":15149.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15149.376593750003,"end":15149.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15149.427218750003,"end":15150.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15150.254093750002,"end":15150.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15150.50721875,"end":15150.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15150.591593750003,"end":15150.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15151.047218750002,"end":15153.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15151.18221875,"end":15151.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15152.29596875,"end":15152.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15153.24096875,"end":15153.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15153.274718750003,"end":15153.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15153.49409375,"end":15154.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15155.805968750003,"end":15159.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15159.36659375,"end":15160.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15160.058468750001,"end":15162.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15161.340968750003,"end":15161.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15161.57721875,"end":15162.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15162.032843750003,"end":15162.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15162.30284375,"end":15162.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15162.37034375,"end":15162.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15162.404093750003,"end":15162.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15162.42096875,"end":15164.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15162.47159375,"end":15162.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15162.707843750002,"end":15162.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15162.72471875,"end":15162.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15163.382843750001,"end":15163.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15163.450343750003,"end":15171.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15164.85096875,"end":15165.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15165.00284375,"end":15165.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15165.340343750002,"end":15165.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15165.52596875,"end":15165.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15165.84659375,"end":15166.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15171.297218750002,"end":15171.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15171.33096875,"end":15171.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15171.415343750003,"end":15173.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15172.90034375,"end":15173.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15173.17034375,"end":15174.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15173.76096875,"end":15177.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15174.098468750002,"end":15175.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15175.97159375,"end":15176.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15176.039093750001,"end":15176.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15176.562218750001,"end":15179.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15177.96284375,"end":15177.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15177.996593750002,"end":15178.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15178.199093750001,"end":15178.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15178.266593750002,"end":15178.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15178.92471875,"end":15180.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15179.684093750002,"end":15180.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15180.325343750003,"end":15181.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15180.966593750003,"end":15181.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15181.574093750001,"end":15181.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15181.82721875,"end":15184.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15182.468468750001,"end":15182.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15182.55284375,"end":15183.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15183.970343750003,"end":15199.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15184.03784375,"end":15189.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15191.665343750003,"end":15192.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15192.593468750001,"end":15192.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15192.660968750002,"end":15192.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15194.517218750003,"end":15195.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15195.597218750001,"end":15195.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15195.68159375,"end":15195.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15195.90096875,"end":15196.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15196.74471875,"end":15196.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15198.22971875,"end":15198.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15198.65159375,"end":15200.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15200.372843750003,"end":15202.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15200.38971875,"end":15201.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15201.030968750001,"end":15203.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15203.140343750001,"end":15203.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15203.460968750001,"end":15203.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15203.477843750003,"end":15210.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15208.03409375,"end":15208.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15208.270343750002,"end":15208.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15210.632843750001,"end":15211.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15211.03784375,"end":15217.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15213.974093750003,"end":15215.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15217.534718750001,"end":15219.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15220.082843750002,"end":15223.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15220.47096875,"end":15223.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15223.52534375,"end":15224.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15223.96409375,"end":15226.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15224.031593750002,"end":15227.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15227.96346875,"end":15228.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15228.030968750001,"end":15240.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15229.043468750002,"end":15229.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15229.33034375,"end":15229.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15230.71409375,"end":15230.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15231.06846875,"end":15240.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15240.61971875,"end":15240.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15240.72096875,"end":15240.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15240.77159375,"end":15240.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15240.94034375,"end":15240.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15240.957218750002,"end":15255.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15242.25659375,"end":15242.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15242.45909375,"end":15243.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15248.297843750002,"end":15249.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15249.310343750003,"end":15251.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15251.031593750002,"end":15251.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15251.149718750003,"end":15252.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15252.027218750001,"end":15252.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15252.75284375,"end":15253.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15253.49534375,"end":15253.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15253.664093750001,"end":15253.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15255.351593750001,"end":15255.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15255.790343750003,"end":15256.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15256.060343750003,"end":15264.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15256.532843750003,"end":15258.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15258.55784375,"end":15259.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15260.700968750003,"end":15260.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15262.30409375,"end":15264.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15264.61596875,"end":15265.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15265.13909375,"end":15265.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15265.29096875,"end":15269.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15266.067218750002,"end":15269.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15270.31971875,"end":15271.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15271.93971875,"end":15277.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15277.305968750003,"end":15279.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15279.465968750003,"end":15280.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15280.47846875,"end":15280.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15280.832843750002,"end":15282.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15286.418468750002,"end":15311.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15311.882843750001,"end":15315.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15315.98346875,"end":15321.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15322.277843750002,"end":15326.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15326.294093750003,"end":15334.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15334.32659375,"end":15334.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15334.343468750001,"end":15335.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15336.570968750002,"end":15347.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15348.957218750002,"end":15350.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15350.965343750002,"end":15351.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15352.821593750003,"end":15376.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15377.324093750001,"end":15382.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15382.89284375,"end":15390.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15390.452843750001,"end":15403.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15403.63221875,"end":15405.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15408.27284375,"end":15409.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15410.31471875,"end":15416.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15417.722843750002,"end":15449.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15420.642218750003,"end":15426.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15426.700343750003,"end":15428.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15433.51784375,"end":15433.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15433.551593750002,"end":15434.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15434.85096875,"end":15434.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15434.90159375,"end":15434.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15434.918468750002,"end":15435.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15435.036593750003,"end":15435.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15435.087218750003,"end":15435.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15435.67784375,"end":15435.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15437.129093750002,"end":15441.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15441.027218750001,"end":15441.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15441.044093750003,"end":15441.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15441.11159375,"end":15442.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15442.259093750003,"end":15442.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15450.88221875,"end":15453.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15453.953468750002,"end":15462.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15462.964718750001,"end":15463.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15463.032218750002,"end":15463.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15463.977218750002,"end":15464.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15464.027843750002,"end":15464.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15464.972843750002,"end":15465.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15465.023468750001,"end":15465.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15465.968468750001,"end":15466.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15466.035968750002,"end":15481.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15466.47471875,"end":15467.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15469.84971875,"end":15470.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15481.965968750003,"end":15491.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15492.05721875,"end":15497.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15497.035343750002,"end":15556.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15556.23284375,"end":15556.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15556.97534375,"end":15559.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15558.156593750002,"end":15558.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15559.641593750002,"end":15561.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15562.206593750001,"end":15572.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15573.10784375,"end":15576.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15577.47846875,"end":15583.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15583.266593750002,"end":15583.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15583.418468750002,"end":15584.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15583.92471875,"end":15586.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15585.747218750003,"end":15585.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15585.81471875,"end":15586.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15586.911593750003,"end":15590.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15590.03346875,"end":15591.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15591.19784375,"end":15598.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15591.231593750003,"end":15592.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15598.52159375,"end":15598.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15598.74096875,"end":15599.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15599.500343750002,"end":15600.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15600.394718750002,"end":15600.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15600.411593750003,"end":15600.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15600.664718750002,"end":15600.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15601.204718750003,"end":15601.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15601.339718750001,"end":15615.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15605.085968750001,"end":15606.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15609.11909375,"end":15609.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15609.591593750003,"end":15610.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15610.03034375,"end":15610.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15612.696593750003,"end":15614.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15615.66659375,"end":15615.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15615.683468750001,"end":15615.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15615.953468750002,"end":15615.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15615.970343750003,"end":15616.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15616.03784375,"end":15616.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15616.965968750003,"end":15617.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15617.03346875,"end":15628.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15629.419718750003,"end":15631.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15632.32221875,"end":15633.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15633.97596875,"end":15634.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15640.70909375,"end":15644.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15645.180968750003,"end":15645.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15646.68284375,"end":15649.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15649.720343750003,"end":15656.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15656.183468750001,"end":15665.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15665.329718750003,"end":15677.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15677.699093750001,"end":15703.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15704.53034375,"end":15708.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15709.154093750003,"end":15710.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15710.672843750002,"end":15710.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15711.60096875,"end":15719.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15714.503468750001,"end":15715.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15716.089718750001,"end":15716.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15717.692843750003,"end":15718.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15719.02596875,"end":15724.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15719.093468750001,"end":15720.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15721.050968750002,"end":15721.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15721.962218750003,"end":15722.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15722.97471875,"end":15723.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15723.02534375,"end":15724.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15724.493468750003,"end":15724.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15725.25284375,"end":15725.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15725.286593750003,"end":15725.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15725.30346875,"end":15725.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15725.607218750003,"end":15726.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15727.750343750002,"end":15739.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15739.42784375,"end":15749.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15749.82284375,"end":15765.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15751.56096875,"end":15751.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15751.594718750002,"end":15751.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15751.67909375,"end":15751.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15751.763468750003,"end":15751.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15751.797218750002,"end":15751.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15765.837218750003,"end":15771.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15771.91221875,"end":15773.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15773.785343750002,"end":15775.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15776.434718750003,"end":15778.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15780.24846875,"end":15780.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15780.265343750001,"end":15811.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15812.41221875,"end":15826.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15826.199093750001,"end":15857.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15856.422218750002,"end":15859.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15859.628468750001,"end":15860.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15860.45534375,"end":15868.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15862.429718750001,"end":15863.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15870.968468750001,"end":15871.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15872.976593750001,"end":15873.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15873.972218750001,"end":15879.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15880.013468750003,"end":15880.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15880.047218750002,"end":15886.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15882.308468750001,"end":15889.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15886.965968750003,"end":15886.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15886.98284375,"end":15887.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15888.82221875,"end":15919.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15889.851593750001,"end":15889.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15890.290343750003,"end":15890.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15919.028468750003,"end":15947.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15920.074718750002,"end":15922.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15947.024093750002,"end":15950.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15950.48346875,"end":15950.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15950.500343750002,"end":15956.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15956.659718750001,"end":15970.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15958.937843750002,"end":15959.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15970.480343750001,"end":15970.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15970.61534375,"end":15971.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15972.977843750003,"end":15973.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15973.973468750002,"end":15975.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15976.622843750003,"end":15978.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15979.79534375,"end":15982.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16000.973468750002,"end":16001.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16001.175968750002,"end":16002.52596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":567.233,"end":567.794,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":601.189,"end":601.391,"text":"案。」案。"},{"start":1827.034,"end":1835.683,"text":"我們請主任祕書報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員18人以主法定人數現在開會我們進行討論事項請宣讀"},{"start":1839.628,"end":1842.03,"text":"案、審查委員陳韻珍等18人擬具地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案案。"},{"start":1863.848,"end":1881.642,"text":"現在本日議程所列的討論事項合併質詢首先我先介紹在場的委員以及列行的官員我們介紹黃婕委員陳俊宇委員第一次在內政委員會見到您歡迎來"},{"start":1883.386,"end":1887.508,"text":"陳玉珍委員鄭天財內政部政務次長吳榮輝民政司代理司長鄭英宏戶政司戶口統計科科長黃宏林"},{"start":1912.952,"end":1924.782,"text":"原住民主委員會副主任委員鍾欣華綜合規劃處專門委員曾欣忠中央選舉委員會選務處處長余淑儀國家發展委員會國土區域離島發展處副處長林中榮社會發展處專門委員謝偉智"},{"start":1942.54,"end":1971.492,"text":"法務部法制司專門委員邱黎分財政部負稅署專門委員蘇靜娟行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李易柔好,現在介紹完了我們所有的官員跟與會的委員們我們現在就先提案說明先請,是郁真嗎?好,我們先請陳郁真委員來做提案說明,謝謝"},{"start":1981.025,"end":1993.283,"text":"本席今天提出地方制度法增訂第七條之四的這個條文的草案的主要目的是要符合這個憲法正修條文的意旨。中華民國憲法正修條文第十條第十二項規定國家"},{"start":1994.645,"end":2010.167,"text":"因依民族意願保障原住民族之地位及相關發展。後段有提到說對於澎湖、金門、馬祖地區人民一同。意思是說離島地區與原住民一樣都要有同等的這個規範的權利保障。"},{"start":2011.648,"end":2030.709,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、"},{"start":2032.651,"end":2040.954,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案〉案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案〉案。"},{"start":2054.739,"end":2073.478,"text":"方便諸如生活品質、文化、醫療、衛生、教育文化還有社會福利等各方面都沒有一個上位的法令所以我們希望在地方制度法增訂這一條才有法源依據來做一個制度化的保障在地方制度法有這一條規定然後我們就去制定這個離島基本法來完備對於照顧這個離島基民的照顧"},{"start":2076.2,"end":2098.177,"text":"這個條文事項在第十屆的時候本期事項已經提出來一次而且在第七會期的時候那時候我事項在內政委員會也送出這個委員會等待草野協商但是後來因為屆期不連續所以沒有辦法三讀五通過那這一次本期在第一會期就提出來感謝這個我們高金委員招委高金委員的排審讓這個條文可以在第一時間要進入委員會的這個審查程序"},{"start":2098.977,"end":2121.32,"text":"本席要再次強調,憲法正確條文第十條第十二項對於原住民族及金馬鵬離島居民的權利保障應該一致對待。原住民族的這個基本法實行20年了,也不斷地在各位原住民委員的這個努力下不停地在徵求當中。那我們離島居民希望至少有一個基本的法律框架,比照原住民案可以保障原住民的"},{"start":2121.88,"end":2145.854,"text":"原住民族的法律地位。所以今天本集題做修法,不是要說要額外增加對領導居民的照顧,而是希望可以落實憲法徵修條文的這個意旨。希望各位委員還有我們內政部支持。以上,謝謝。好,非常謝謝陳一貞委員提案說明。待會我們請鄭天財委員來做提案說明。我們請張宏祿委員代理我做主席,好吧。您先提案,我最後一個。好,謝謝。"},{"start":2155.61,"end":2184.459,"text":"主席、各位委員、所有的官員地方制度法這個過去有多次的修正這跟原住民條款有關的部分是在99年的時候針對直轄市的議員有做修正那對於這個現行的地方制度法第33條對於這個隨著原住民的人口移居到都會期"},{"start":2185.526,"end":2194.711,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員"},{"start":2212.759,"end":2241.651,"text":"我們的新竹縣的竹東鎮、南投縣的埔里鎮、屏東縣的屏東市、潮州鎮及內埔鄉等都沒有這個山地原住民的代表。所以這個部分是需要做一個修正。希望我們行政機關及各位委員能夠支持。以上。好,謝謝政委員。那我們請高金委員提案說明。"},{"start":2247.212,"end":2269.07,"text":"謝謝主席目前地方制度法第三十三條的制度從88年通過到現在僅僅對於平地原住民縣市議員的席次有所保障對於山地原住民的參政權卻沒有同等的保障這導致部分都會區的山地原住民的族人在縣市議員選舉的時候被迫投給漢人的候選人"},{"start":2274.654,"end":2294.25,"text":"然而當選的漢人候選人因爲文化的不了解也不清楚原住民的事務也就無法落實原住民族的政策而山地原住民族人的權益沒有人照顧跟爭取這損害到當地族人應有的權利跟福利甚至於是參政權"},{"start":2295.251,"end":2322.322,"text":"因此我提出地方制度法第三十三條的修正草案這實踐了憲法徵修條文第十條第十二項賦予的原住民族發展權保障山地原住民族的參政權利也落實原住民族的轉型正義我希望今天排的第三十三條內政部的民政司還有在場的所有的朋友們也能夠支持憲法保障"},{"start":2322.862,"end":2350.089,"text":"三地援助民主在都會區的參政權。謝謝大家。好,我們現在提案委員的說明都說明結束了。我們現在請內政部吳政務次長榮輝來報告。請問一下次長您需要幾分鐘的時間?很快。"},{"start":2352.193,"end":2381.168,"text":"很快,我們就給您五分鐘的時間,好嗎?好,我們給吳次長五分鐘的時間來書面報告,謝謝。好,我們召集我們各位立委,各位在場的先進,大家早安。首先對於委員會就內政業務的關注跟指導,表達由衷的感謝之意。今天貴委員會聯席會議審查地方制度法條文修正草案,總共有四案。"},{"start":2382.362,"end":2398.524,"text":"本部應邀列席報告並備詢,深感榮幸,僅就本部意見扼要說明,敬請委員參考。第一,高金素梅委員等及鄭天財委員等建立調整縣市議員及鄉鎮市民代表原住民保障名額規定。"},{"start":2400.011,"end":2428.167,"text":"因制度調整有關原住民與非原住民、選民與候選人的參政權利、選區劃分以及地方的政治生態,如何兼顧原住民與非原住民的參政權利,需一併做整體的考量、通盤檢討。第二、賴士葆委員等建議徵定本部由上而下啟動直轄市、縣市單獨或者合併改制為直轄市案,應經有涉及的直轄市、縣市政府及議會同意。"},{"start":2429.708,"end":2452.033,"text":"因縣市單獨或合併改制之下是為行政區劃之一種,依照憲法第108條第一項第二款的規定,行政區劃屬於中央權限,尚非地方自治事項。堂規定應經地方政府或地方議會同意,形同賦予地方行政區劃決定前,恐與憲法規定有判格之訴。"},{"start":2453.758,"end":2479.512,"text":"第三、陳毓尊委員等建立制定離島基本法考令現行離島建設條例,獲得攸關離島第七之法規,僅是具體落實了憲法徵修條文第十條第十二項之要求。有關離島地區居民的各項權利保障,在地方自治地位及其居民政治參與部分與臺灣本島並無差異。之一、教育、文化、交通、水利、"},{"start":2480.352,"end":2506.441,"text":"衛生醫療、經濟土地及社會福利事項等面向如基於離島地區之特殊需要建立在既有的法規基礎上是實際需要來事實辦理修訂以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝謝謝吳市長的書面說明繼續我們請因為這涉及到原住民山地原住民在都會區的權益我們也請原民會的總副主委來做書面報告好謝謝"},{"start":2510.911,"end":2532.686,"text":"主席、各位委員大家好本會受邀列席出席本聯席會深感榮幸以下僅就高金素梅委員以及鄭天財委員所提的地方制度法第三十三條的修正條文草案提出報告第一是現行3D箱還有其他行政區域原住民政治參與權源於臺灣省各縣市實施地方自治綱要"},{"start":2533.526,"end":2549.467,"text":"以及臺灣省各縣市鄉鎮市民代表組織規程所為之設計就行政首長及鄉鎮市民代表為不同之規範並沿用至今日的一個地制法。第二個是查委員所提的版本均增加三地民主民民代表的席次"},{"start":2550.088,"end":2564.486,"text":"有助於提升原住民族政治參與權,本會敬表尊重,為散開的草案涉及國家整體的參政權以及選務規劃執行的作業,也進行大用徵詢法令主管機關的意見。以上的說明。謝謝。"},{"start":2567.025,"end":2587.684,"text":"好,非常謝謝中副主委的書面報告。其他單位的報告,我們請在場的委員就自行參閱並且刊登公報。現在進行詢答,委員質詢之前,原例做幾個宣告。第一個,本聯席會及原名發言的時間是4分鐘,必要的時候可以延長2分鐘。"},{"start":2588.985,"end":2605.26,"text":"非本聯席會的委員發言時間為4分鐘,上午10點30分截止發言登記。因為今天要法案處理,所以我們這次的會議就不處理臨時提案了。請問各位委員有沒有意見?好,謝謝。我們請登記第一位的張宏祿委員發言。"},{"start":2616.674,"end":2621.583,"text":"我請吳次長跟中副主委"},{"start":2627.858,"end":2647.595,"text":"市長、副主委其實今天這個委員提案其實我認為利益是良善我想先請問一下這個市長在台灣沒有山地原住民的縣市目前山地鄉的縣市目前有幾個有八個"},{"start":2650.796,"end":2669.78,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":2679.582,"end":2685.444,"text":"但,像我們新北市其實山原、平原都有了吧?是不是?"},{"start":2685.444,"end":2687.364,"text":"是。是不是?"},{"start":2687.364,"end":2698.568,"text":"有。新北有。有齁。那像我們新北市其實平地原住民的人口也是有可能繼續增加吧?"},{"start":2698.568,"end":2699.048,"text":"這個中副主委。"},{"start":2700.68,"end":2724.132,"text":"也有可能是人口的部分有沒有可能有可能會增加包括桃園市最近就增加比較多畢竟是這個新北跟桃園都有很多我們原住民的朋友來這邊工作來這邊生活那我想請問一下在總額的限制之下"},{"start":2725.432,"end":2753.337,"text":"那如果憑議員住民的朋友越來越多,那議員的席次是不是要等量增加?報告委員,這個直轄市的部分是因為它分開計算了,所以基本上它跟區域的就沒有影響。不不,我的問題是不是也要增加?要一直增加?你說區域的部分是嗎?對啊。區域的部分應該是它有人口限制嘛。"},{"start":2754.427,"end":2780.129,"text":"我做以新北市為例啊。新北市為例,如果他人口繼續增加的話,他有可能他會增加。對嗎?超過200萬以上他會增加。不不,我說以新北市現在,我如果原住民的、平地原住民的人口一直增加,我們的議員的、平原的、議員的人數啊,要不要繼續增加?他現在已經分開啦。我知道是分開,我知道是分開,你可以請你答。"},{"start":2781.752,"end":2800.061,"text":"就說目前直轄市的是兩千...不然你只要回答我會不會增加就好會嘛對嘛我只要你這個答案嘛會嘛對不對所以問題來了是直轄市跟我們一般縣市現在是不一樣的對不對對縣市是合併計算"},{"start":2806.461,"end":2825.675,"text":"對阿!你不要回答我道理啦!你只要回答我對或不對啦!沒錯嘛!所以可能會造成不公平所以才有這個提案但我也要有一個問題我們在立法也不是說看到目前的狀況我雖然覺得這個"},{"start":2829.413,"end":2838.435,"text":"這一個道理是通的是沒有有的地方沒有代表的原住民的議員但我們原住民族身份法我們到底什麼時候要處理"},{"start":2842.148,"end":2866.984,"text":"報告委員,我們身份法現在正在研議中,會再按照那個當上次的釋憲17號裡面,三年內會作為一個處理。我現在就是有一個問題,我們知道今天這個法案這個道理上說得通,然後也確實好像有不足之處,但身份法如果通過之後,如果有很多的希拉雅族、平埔族什麼的,他們都取得了"},{"start":2867.765,"end":2873.953,"text":"憑例原住民的身份之後,那我剛所說的那些問題,你們有沒有想到要如何去解決了?跟委員報告,目前也還在討論中,因為"},{"start":2882.042,"end":2909.189,"text":"在上一次我們提出的版本是有關他們的部分可能權力法律會定以定之有做這樣的一個上一次的考量不過這一次可能我們還在討論中對嘛也還不知道嘛其實我要一個重點就是說如果身份法通過了之後他們就是原住民的身份啊他們也取得了參政權啊對不對他本來就有參政權啦他就可以用平地原住民的身份來參選議員了吧對不對"},{"start":2912.409,"end":2913.371,"text":"案案案案案"},{"start":2926.525,"end":2953.666,"text":"在還沒有定案但有可能發生這種情況之下其實我個人我真的不反對今天的這個修法的這個方向但很多細節我們要先考慮到未來如果發生了這樣的情況之下那我們的地制法要不要再修一次要不要再什麼其實你們要預先要防範要說出來不然可能到時候問題會更大會不會啊"},{"start":2957.247,"end":2975.056,"text":"法務委員我來說明一下,如果未來這個移民身份法這個評估處去納入,我們在這個副政機關去登記他的身份之後,那未來一定會涉及到參政權的問題,一定會涉及到參政權。那未來恐怕那個稀釋的變化當然一定會產生變化,這是一定會的。"},{"start":2976.417,"end":2998.011,"text":"對啦齁所以其實我比較擔心的是可能未來會發生的事情啦齁我比較擔心這個如果我們今天通過了這個那未來要怎麼去處理或什麼我覺得我們今天可能也要一起思考一起討論一下不要到時候又有很多問題的發生啦好不好是好謝謝委員好謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢"},{"start":3002.87,"end":3004.592,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":3030.745,"end":3046.936,"text":"好謝謝主席那請吳政次跟我們余處長好我們請次長還有處長是哪一位是余處長中央選舉我們會選余處余處長我們時間先暫停請余處長立刻到這個備詢台上"},{"start":3061.087,"end":3079.298,"text":"好,政次還有我們余處長那謝謝主席今天與會的我們所有列席的首長還有我們各位委員媒體先進大家早安那今天我們要審查的是這個地方制度法的這個修正草案"},{"start":3080.218,"end":3095.962,"text":"我們也看到有幾位委員提案要通過調整名額來保障原住民的參政權我覺得這是利益良善值得我們社會廣泛的討論但是對於整體的選制的影響還是需要經過審慎的"},{"start":3098.963,"end":3112.519,"text":"評估跟討論之後相關的問題我相信我們也需要經過我們內政部還有選委會這邊有一個比較明確的一個方向那本席在去年競選的同時也曾經提過一個構想"},{"start":3113.88,"end":3129.725,"text":"那是不是可以在各縣市在不影響選區的原有席次的基礎上來增加部分區的議員席次避免議會被少數人特定家族或是派系"},{"start":3130.945,"end":3150.495,"text":"還有勢力給壟斷那也可以讓更多優秀的青年和專業的人才都能夠進入議會來服務那對於縣市議會增設政黨比例的這個代表不分區議員的可能性我想請問我們內政部跟中選會認為現階段有沒有可能來推動"},{"start":3153.105,"end":3170.885,"text":"謝謝委員指教我想這個現在的地方議會的這個選舉制度已經可以這個反映出選區的多元的這個這個意見了那有關於增設這個部分區的議員的這個席次他影響可能是整個的這個選舉制度的這個變革"},{"start":3172.581,"end":3188.716,"text":"包括說你比例要怎麼分、那席次怎麼調整、選區怎麼劃分等等這些,那這個牽涉的是比較廣泛,這個需要大家這個廣泛的討論來形成共識。那我想這一個方向大家可以討論,我們立場是開放,那可以大家一起討論。"},{"start":3189.677,"end":3204.757,"text":"有沒有可能內政部來主導對於這個部分邀請我們相關的單位或是地方的意見領袖來做一個比較深入的討論?有沒有可能?"},{"start":3205.285,"end":3227.919,"text":"我想這個是公共議題我們可以跟中協會這邊大家一起跟地方政府大家一起來談因為本席來自這個地方的議會我也曾經在議會擔任過議員那甚至這個參政對年輕人來說有時候門檻是過高那多元的價值跟相對冷門的這個議題也可能會被忽略"},{"start":3229.368,"end":3255.168,"text":"如果我們有專業背景的這些青年因為缺乏選舉的資源而無法進入議會來問政、監督政府的話,我想是相當可惜的。那是不是請內政部和中選會能夠積極來研擬、藉盡其他國家的經驗,一起推動青年參政,也可以提升地方公共治理的品質,深化我們地方民主和多元性的發展。"},{"start":3256.449,"end":3276.051,"text":"這個部分我要請我們這個內政部跟中選會來幫忙那另外還有一個問題就是這個當兵的問題那我看到這個最近的新聞報導男性的護理師這個本來就很稀少了但是因為他在這個求學過程之後"},{"start":3278.313,"end":3291.343,"text":"等待兵單好不容易入伍又退伍之後但他正式職業已經有一年半的時間沒有臨床經驗了在工作上銜接的調適性都相對比其他的人來講"},{"start":3293.104,"end":3293.984,"text":"案案案案案案案案"},{"start":3315.97,"end":3330.337,"text":"好謝謝委員指教這一部分我們跟這個衛福部我們有在討論那是不是在社會意義裡面他們因為要必須要這個衛福部他提出需求那如果有這個需求的話我們會來協助"},{"start":3332.067,"end":3349.554,"text":"那這個部分還是請內政部跟衛務部積極探討能夠把這個問題解決那另外還有一個就是針對我們現在義南在等待當兵的部分有一些畢業之後等待的時間甚至超過一年以上那像這種塞車的問題現在有沒有解決"},{"start":3351.838,"end":3373.921,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們都盡可能就是說假設你有希望你趕快去入營的話這個我們都會優先來做處理那這個因為涉及到流量的問題也就是說在成功的基本訓練的部分如果流量沒問題我們盡可能都讓他能夠儘早來入營那平均我們現在要等多久才能夠入營"},{"start":3374.673,"end":3383.036,"text":"我們現在因為比較快了,前陣子是有一點塞車,那現在流量增加以後應該比較快了。我們還是希望內政部能夠對於徵集異難的部分盡快來辦理,減少他們等待的時程。"},{"start":3394.261,"end":3412.59,"text":"那對於台灣的義難來說要當兵是義務啦但是不確定的時程還是嚴重影響到他們的生涯規劃那我們請內政部持續這個精進讓我們所有要投入國家這個服務的這些義難在等待的時間縮短以外我們剛剛講的對於這個"},{"start":3414.831,"end":3437.39,"text":"男性護理師的部分,我也拜託我們內政部還有這個衛福部應該積極的去研議,讓他們能夠在這個服役的過程裡面有一個比較好的銜接,避免他們這個踏入社會之後有這個斷層。好,以上。謝謝,謝謝立委對替代藝人的關心。好,謝謝陳俊宇委員的質詢,謝謝。謝謝,謝謝次長,謝謝。"},{"start":3442.365,"end":3458.792,"text":"繼續我們請麥玉珍委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請內政部次長。有請我們的吳次長。委員好。"},{"start":3465.698,"end":3494.842,"text":"市長好關於居住正義一直來是我們民眾關心的議題特別在都會區現在的房子貴三三嘛比黃金還貴所以民眾必須不吃不喝十年才買得起想租屋的民眾也遇到市場沒有透明的問題政府希望透過補貼的方式希望讓更多的民眾可以付得起租金"},{"start":3495.422,"end":3509.992,"text":"但是民眾對於社會住宅補助的資格審查、補貼的金額及申請流程還有很多疑慮。請教次長目前社會住宅補貼的標準及金額如何?報告委員,是不是這一部分我請我們營建這院國土署來回應一下?"},{"start":3519.485,"end":3520.025,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":3535,"end":3561.773,"text":"那我們現行的那個針對社會住宅入住的話那現行的規定大概就是一般戶當然是8折那社會弱勢戶有在打折那打折的部分那各地方政府可能不一樣那最少就是有6、4折那剛剛委員提到那個社會社會住宅的那個收取的標準按照分級的部分來收取這個部分那我們內政部針對這個部分已經會再找地方政府再繼續研議"},{"start":3564.741,"end":3580.994,"text":"但是我們社會租宅的租金分級收費原則是協議是身份別作為社會租宅的租金的標準但是在今年7月就是正式實施但以"},{"start":3581.414,"end":3601.58,"text":"就是身分別作為租宅收費標準,恐怕跟租宅法第25條第三頁的規定依曾租人的薪水及負擔能力來訂定收費標準,這樣子有所違背。」所以請問一下我們的部會怎麼看法?"},{"start":3603.223,"end":3622.105,"text":"報告委員那個身份別或是用他的那個所得這個部分齁那剛剛有講這個部分因為還要再研議啦所以不是今年七月就會一定正式實施那這個部分我們已經在邀請縣市政府會再溝通討論以上"},{"start":3623.928,"end":3639.883,"text":"是在溝通討論,但是還不知道什麼溝通,什麼時候溝通還什麼,就是在溝通而已,是不是?報告我補充一下,因為這個案子現在本來在有兩個聲音,一個是要收入杯,一個是分杯。我們經過檢討,我們認為還是應該用升杯來會比較公平。"},{"start":3644.207,"end":3661.335,"text":"那這一部分我們另外花次有在邀集這個縣市政府要共同來討論準備去訂定這樣的一個標準那現在還沒有出來那現在已經在跟地方政府在溝通如果是講公平的話我們舉例好了我們新住民的角度來看的話"},{"start":3662.055,"end":3688.847,"text":"我們都是來自東南亞就是語言、文化或者是就是識字能力、世音等的問題但是呢我們也面臨就是低薪不穩固的困境但是在經濟上的弱勢地位當依居住法裡面所定義經濟或者社會弱勢者的身份中新住民身份並不包含在內"},{"start":3689.907,"end":3709.522,"text":"若有要用身分別作為租宅收租的標準的話恐怕就是讓我們真正經濟弱勢的民眾就變兩頭空顯示其實這樣子的沒辦法妥善的照顧弱勢族群所以像次長這說的話這個問題如何解決"},{"start":3712.7,"end":3730.344,"text":"報告委員,委員剛剛指教的部分在這個跟地方政府在去溝通的時候這個我們會納入去這個溝通的這個議題裡面那我想這部分我們都會去考量這最主要是說我們不希望弱勢的我們是希望正正正視這個問題就是我們要請教說我們次長知不知詞"},{"start":3737.868,"end":3742.219,"text":"租房全面實價登錄還有全面公開。"},{"start":3746.042,"end":3774.314,"text":"我想這一部分我們會來討論但是有一個原則就是說我們社會住宅就是要針對這些比較經濟弱勢的能夠提供一個比較安心的所以才要說全面就是價位登記還有公開這樣子的價位我們真正才照顧到弱勢沒有公開的話就是租房子八百塊要怎麼真正的照顧我想委員這個我們會納入整個去演繹"},{"start":3776.072,"end":3776.993,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、審查委員"},{"start":3787.489,"end":3812.325,"text":"就在市場發展管理條例的修正草案中,就是我們要如何定就是轉租的企業還有納入就是實價的登錄,就中介他們是有,但是我們可以說一大的突破啦,但目的就是在提升租屋的透明度,還有如租金可以"},{"start":3812.705,"end":3818.168,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":3839.296,"end":3866.847,"text":"實價登錄這個是既有的政策會繼續往這個方向來推動嗎?往這方面推動但是會實質推動嗎?還是往這方面推動而已?所以我們希望請教一下內政部就是租金實質登錄還有平均地權條例的上路成功如何?到目前為止開罰的條件有嗎?"},{"start":3868.961,"end":3872.247,"text":"因為這一個我手上沒有這個數據那這些數據我們再會我們再提供給委員"},{"start":3874.96,"end":3896.155,"text":"因為這次檢舉是要有實名制所以民眾可以擔心說大家的個資外洩所以如果是實名制的話大家就不敢去舉報所以這些商業就不會登廣告我們也沒有達到我們是要監督或者是管理的我們謝謝我們的市長"},{"start":3898.716,"end":3906.039,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":3931.57,"end":3954.419,"text":"委員好市長好我在上一屆的第七會期有針對今天我們排的這個地方制法第三十三條我有做過提案那為什麼我當時會提出這個修法因為長期以來存在一個很不合理的現象我們都知道根據我們到去年底的一個人口統計"},{"start":3955.976,"end":3979.945,"text":"原住民人口移居到都會地區已經來到48%也就是說將近有一半的原住民人口是移居在都會地區可是呢我們來看一看我們的地制法他是怎麼寫的要怎麼樣產生我們的議員呢平地原住民人口要滿1500人就會有平地原住民議員"},{"start":3981.465,"end":3995.813,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":4002.898,"end":4020.095,"text":"他雖然沒有山地鄉可是山地原住民的人口有7354人。臺南市雖然沒有山地鄉但是他的山地原住民人口有5000多人。反觀我們的直轄市在目前的地制法我們來看一下"},{"start":4021.195,"end":4046.465,"text":"只要平地原住民達2000人以上,就可以選出平地原住民議員。山地原住民達2000人以上,就可以選出山地原住民議員。甚至是改制前有山地鄉的,以桃園來講它有復興區,也可以有山地原住民議員。所以在這邊想要請教一下次長,像這些沒有山地鄉的縣市,"},{"start":4048.186,"end":4054.868,"text":"您說給大家聽三地原住民如果我要投一元票我要領哪一種票?謝謝委員我想現在委員要去照顧這一個原住民的參政權那因為現在平地原住民我們是有保障的一千五百人以上市長我只是想問他可以領什麼票?"},{"start":4077.025,"end":4085.956,"text":"那因為他如果參與七一就領七一的選票所以他領不到他一個3D原住民他要領哪一種票"},{"start":4087.506,"end":4088.507,"text":"區域選票區域選票區域選票"},{"start":4108.536,"end":4133.278,"text":"那我上次也有說不對的事情我們就應該要主動修不要等待所以在這個地方我也要讓次長再一次知道同樣的不合理也發生在鄉鎮市的這些民意代表像是新竹的竹東鎮他的3D原住民高達3849人可是他沒有辦法有3D原住民的代表"},{"start":4134.139,"end":4148.733,"text":"那我們的地方制法都出現一樣的問題很多都要去修他不知道他要選什麼票所以我在這邊在上一屆期呢當時因為有提案有質詢我也試著拜託內政部幫我試算"},{"start":4152.256,"end":4153.256,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":4171.804,"end":4190.083,"text":"今天我們內政委員會召委很快的排入了這個修法的法案那我在這一屆也提了版本但是因為來不及所以我在這邊也補題一個修正動議那我這邊要再重申一次我的地方制度法第三十三條"},{"start":4191.084,"end":4207.276,"text":"希望比照直轄市議員來調整縣市議員鄉鎮市代表的應選名額,採什麼方式?總額外加的方式。那我在這邊另外也想提一個部分有做修正。"},{"start":4208.137,"end":4225.813,"text":"二、審查委員地制法第八十三條之三我希望來處理直轄市的山地原住民自治區的財政自治事項因為目前很不合理他們合併了之後曾經一度失去公法人"},{"start":4226.634,"end":4251.369,"text":"好在很快的我們又透過修法恢復,但是還是留了很多不合理的現象。我希望透過《地方制度法第83條之三》讓直轄市的山地原住民自治區要把包含他升格前應該要分配的稅捐、公共債都能夠把它補回來。也希望我們內政部這邊能夠來支持。"},{"start":4253.67,"end":4266.858,"text":"另外針對地方制度法第四條我在第十屆的時候看過柯建民委員的一個版本他在第一項有提到人口聚居達125萬人以上他把原來的籍修成貨"},{"start":4272.901,"end":4287.333,"text":"在政治、經濟、文化及都會區發展上有特殊需要的地區得設直轄市。」所以在這個地方特別希望針對第三條的第一款地方劃分為省、直轄市"},{"start":4288.314,"end":4315.88,"text":"希望可以把原住民族自治區也能夠把它納入地制法裡面那在原住民自治法尚未制定完成之前我們可以先從地方制度法修正讓現有的原住民區域成為與直轄市同一個層級的地方自治團體那我在這邊就是希望內政部跟園民會來研議這個可行性希望在兩個月之內提供本席說明好嗎"},{"start":4317.32,"end":4326.962,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝吳立華委員謝謝次長接下來有請高金昭吉委員好謝謝主席我們有請吳次長有請次長委員好"},{"start":4343.76,"end":4357.56,"text":"市長好,地方制度法從88年通過到現在,剛剛我的臨時提案已經講過了。我們從來沒有檢討過三元平原在地方選舉上遭受到差別待遇的合理性。"},{"start":4359.139,"end":4374.274,"text":"這讓部分山地原住民在都會區裡面成為次等國民。平原可以選出自己的平地議員,但是山原卻沒有同等的權益。我們的政府似乎認為我們山地原住民的族人不會到都會區,"},{"start":4375.635,"end":4393.712,"text":"你們也沒意識到這不合理的制度間接其實剝奪了三原的參政權還有牠的遷徙自由尤其我們看到目前原住民在都會區涉及的人口已經達到全體原民人口的49%以上"},{"start":4396.394,"end":4404.892,"text":"所以對於這種不合理的制度反彈的聲浪越來越大我們是不是應該要來加速檢討跟修正相關的條文?"},{"start":4407.808,"end":4435.944,"text":"報告委員,剛剛委員指教的有關於這個山地原住民的這一部分,我們認為的確有檢討的空間。好,謝謝您。雖然今天部長跟本席請假了,但是呢,我讓次長回顧一下,部長當時就在這個地方,針對這個議題他備詢的時候他的立場,我們請助理放一下部長的回應。目前地方制度法第三十三條的條文,間接剝奪山地原住民參政權的制度,我也已經"},{"start":4437.245,"end":4457.98,"text":"經期案要修法了,是不是請部長我們一起來支持維護山地原住民在都會區的權益,您同意嗎?這個我們已經現在的演繹,那也有一些方向,那基本上我們是朝正面的一個態度來看待的"},{"start":4458.667,"end":4468.954,"text":"市長您看到了民政司也看到了代理市長在我提到這個問題之前我要特別譴責一下民政司民政司請你上台一下代理市長"},{"start":4470.748,"end":4491.575,"text":"本辦公室4月9號不管是跟你們做口頭說明或者是給你們公文你們回覆都是告訴我事涉複雜提不出推估的數據不管是部長也好次長也好你都說正在研議了然後呢也討正面的態度來檢討這個事情為什麼"},{"start":4494.116,"end":4506.608,"text":"我要跟你們要一個推估的資料,你們告訴我事涉複雜,提不出推估數據。難道事涉複雜就不要處理被剝奪參政權的我們三地原住民族的權益嗎?"},{"start":4507.99,"end":4519.118,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":4530.366,"end":4554.731,"text":"來粗估我的版本可以增加三地議員席次的縣市。我們看一下,112年月底的數據人口的推估可能會增加的縣市只有彰化縣、雲林縣、基隆市、新竹市只有四席三地議員所以本席堅持修法是為了制度上的公平跟維護三地原住民的參政權"},{"start":4556.111,"end":4574.825,"text":"目前我們地方制度法第三十三條的制度僅僅對於平地原住民有固定席次的參政保障但是三地原住民參政權沒有相對於保障我們用基隆市為例目前三地原住民已經有1541人了因為沒有席次的保障"},{"start":4576.314,"end":4599.953,"text":"只能投給誰?剛剛次長應該簡單的說,他們不能夠投給平地原住民的議員,他們只能夠投給漢人的候選人,就是你們所謂的區域候選人。漢人候選人因為文化上的不了解,因為也不太清楚知道原住民族在都會區的需求,所以他們很多以來都是提不出原住民在地的"},{"start":4601.014,"end":4609.587,"text":"貼切的服務,這導致我們的族人怎麼樣?他們投票覺得沒有意義,所以他就陷入不願意投票的這樣的狀況之下。」"},{"start":4611.823,"end":4637.603,"text":"如果你們願意的話,把所有長期以來投票的這些數據找出來,你們就會知道投票率之低。所以因為在這樣子不斷的惡性循環之下,我們3D原住民族的族人在都會區就不會有人照顧。平地原住民的議員,因為他不能投給他,所以他也不照顧他。所以呢,我們3D原住民在都會區,我剛剛講到,"},{"start":4638.564,"end":4649.393,"text":"就是已經人口超過1500這些人真的沒有被保障到。次長這種間接被剝奪三地原住民參政權的制度是不是應該要處理和建好了?"},{"start":4650.699,"end":4674.176,"text":"報告委員,我剛才特別有跟委員報告,這一個方向是可以去檢討的。我們認為說,當初在定定這些第四條三十三條,為什麼把這個非原民鄉的山地原住民這一塊去疏漏掉?因為他們認為山地原住民的族人不會到都會區,只有在山上。"},{"start":4675.794,"end":4698.935,"text":"這個當然現在就不一樣了我剛剛說到了我們原住民的族人移居都市的已經百分之49點多了他比在我們山地鄉的人還多了要討論這個意義當然要跟這個區域的部分大家一起去檢討了但一個原則上就是說這一部分是當初是沒有保障到的我認為是可以"},{"start":4699.755,"end":4717.8,"text":"另外有跟委員特別報告剛剛這個特別委員提到這個要這些數據資料是因為代表的部分比較複雜一點那其實我們會提供我們有的這些資料給委員市長我不接受你們今天代理市長的這樣子的今天才整理出來我不接受"},{"start":4719.28,"end":4733.665,"text":"但是我要說的是今天的修法有三大前提一個是不影響具有席次第二個是三元平原必須要平等對債第三個是要保障三元的參政權在這三大前提之下我請次長"},{"start":4734.545,"end":4756.989,"text":"站在族群主流化、落實轉型正義跟保障三元參政群的立場上支持本席的修法。如果內政部覺得條文文字需要精確,我也請內政部你們待會就盡快提供建議的文字,待會我在逐條再審三十三條的時候,我希望也能夠提供給大家好嗎?謝謝市長謝謝高金、張維謝謝我們次長"},{"start":4763.993,"end":4787.282,"text":"有請我們蘇巧慧委員好 謝謝巧慧委員我們請巧慧委員來質詢好 謝謝主席那我就想請我們內政部次長有請吳次長二位好"},{"start":4791.909,"end":4818.202,"text":"市長好,市長我們今天在討論這個原住民族的民意代表的選舉喔那其實剛剛不管是武麗華委員或者是高金委員其實都在在提到了山地原住民在都市區、都會區參政權的保障那您剛剛也說確實這個地方過往的立法狀況一直不清楚了但確實現在存有改進的空間,是不是這個意思?是那你認為你覺得可以怎麼調整?"},{"start":4820.453,"end":4838.737,"text":"我想這個有幾個方案因為這個涉及到到底是在總額內或者是外加的部分這個是可以去討論的但總之你也認為把都會區再加上不管他是內涵或者是外加再加上有山地原住民民意代表的席次這個是可以討論的方向是這樣可以討論對肯定的方向"},{"start":4842.378,"end":4865.853,"text":"那我們就是想今天再來問啊我們再深一層追問好了市長我想請問一下你知道山地原住民和平地原住民嗎我們今天就是這兩大類在分別嘛對不對這是我們台灣16這麼多族的原住民族裡面他在族別之外還會被加上這樣的身份分類法對不對那你知道這個原住民山原跟平原身份別是怎麼分的嗎法律依據是什麼哪一條"},{"start":4868.014,"end":4888.071,"text":"這個在當初這個人民身份法裡面他就有在當初就有光復前跟光復後是你是戶籍在平地就平地原住民你在山地就山地原住民當初是你要不要再講一次在這個2024年的現在再講一次這條規定如何區分原住民是山地原住民和平地原住民的分類標準你不會覺得在2024年的現在聽起來蠻可笑的嗎"},{"start":4895.611,"end":4914.37,"text":"原住民族身份法第二條本法所稱原住民包括山地原住民及平地原住民其身份之認定除本法另有規定外依依下的規定依依山地原住民臺灣光復前原籍在山地行政區內且戶口調查部登記其本人或直系血親尊姓屬屬於原住民"},{"start":4914.89,"end":4918.975,"text":"平地原住民有案是臺灣光復前原籍在平地行政區域內且戶口調查部登記為其本人或職業為原住民申請戶籍在光所登記的平地原住民有案者我是哪一族這是血統上面的"},{"start":4932.771,"end":4955.104,"text":"但是我是山原還是平原,原來是依據光復前,是漢人來這個光復台灣之前,然後戶籍登記在漢人設定的這個行政區域內,然後我們就把它分成山原跟平原,然後從此之後他們的投票權和他們的參政權就有了很大的區分,所以像吳立華吳偉元好了,他的爸爸媽媽不同族,欸他有一個不能投他欸,你覺得這樣合理嗎?原住民不是就是原住民嗎?"},{"start":4963.191,"end":4990.133,"text":"那我們今天在討論的席次的話我們有沒有要更在2024年的現在更深一層的去討論去辯證現在到底還有沒有區分山園跟平原的必要性呢?你覺得這個也可以討論嗎?我想這一部分是不是原民會來回答會比較...欸沒有我現在就是問內政部阿我現在就問內政部好啦那原民會副主委你也備詢好了啦但是我還是要原住民的答案啦我還是要內政部的答案啦對啊"},{"start":4991.782,"end":5009.206,"text":"法務委員我的答案很簡單就是這些都是屬於公共議題都可以討論以後你如果說假設這個法令的修改三元跟平安要去合在一起就統成一個原住民那當然這個涉及的法令的修改會非常多啦對不對對但是事實上這可以討論嘛來委員跟委員報告"},{"start":5011.807,"end":5038.287,"text":"其實這個部分是可以討論的,因為三元平原就陳如委員所提到的都是延續日據時代的一個分類。目前因為整個都已經比較現代的社會大家都很頻繁。對,而且我三元現在也不住在山上了,剛剛高金委員就有提到的嘛,我們有這麼多基建一半的人族人朋友根本就已經是移居到都市了。請問我在這裡把它分三元跟平原這個差別的意義到底是什麼?權力都差不多只有在參政權才有三元平原。"},{"start":5038.687,"end":5039.127,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":5057.613,"end":5074.146,"text":"這個統計在我每一個投票所我們大家都去投票的時候我們都很自然嘛就是去投票投了以後就被開票誰也不知道我投什麼啊在那個炮軌在投票圈圈裡面天地良心誰知道我是投誰可是原住民不一樣啊因為他人少啊我幫大家調查一下我講新北市就好了"},{"start":5074.927,"end":5089.537,"text":"那個投票所只有5個人以下的平地原住民是佔23.4%。三地原住民那個投票所只有5個人只有5票的只有有佔了47.5。吳亦華委員更統計過啊,上一次的選舉全國全國3人投票所只有1個人的1400個投票所。"},{"start":5097.842,"end":5122.454,"text":"平原只有一個人就投票了也是一千四百個投票所這還有命令投票可言嗎?對不對?這不是一件很奇怪的事情嗎?所以這有沒有解方?要不要來改變?把身份別的認同拉寬是不是也是一種解方?這真的非常值得討論所以我們今天在討論這個投票的部分的時候其實我覺得更應該利用這個機會可以往上層次來討論啊副主委應該認同啦"},{"start":5129.534,"end":5155.132,"text":"等下修法的時候就跟你請教這一條。不過跟委員包括因為針對這個善言偏言的一個分法我們在104年也有...因為我看有版本...有委員提出版本阿是我們也徵詢過當時的一些民意代表不過多數還是有一些反對所以這個還比較複雜一點所以我說討論嘛所以我說討論嘛好啦那請那個副主委先回座啦那我繼續請教次長次長我跳另外一題啦齁那"},{"start":5156.793,"end":5177.479,"text":"行政院有說現在靶罩要由內政部來處理專法請問進度到哪裡了靶罩專法這個前幾天都密集下開會現在大概已經收斂差不多了下個禮拜應該會提出來那我因為時間的關係我就跟市長這邊說我這邊本席也會提出一部我的版本啦"},{"start":5177.819,"end":5196.571,"text":"那我有三個建議啦齁,這個地方的話是要授權先行限制瀏覽或移除的法源。第二個是協助民眾追回款項。第二個是協助追回受騙款項。這才是大家比較想要知道的。第三個請支持民間發展創新科技。這三項重點我希望能夠再跟內政部多討論。"},{"start":5199.713,"end":5221.025,"text":"謝謝蘇喬惠委員謝謝蘇喬惠委員市長剛剛那個投票的那個秘密投票的確是一個很大的問題我們希望你們趕快想一個方式讓這些投票的這些原住民的族人不要因為他的投票的行為而受到大家矚目的方向好不好謝謝繼續我們請黃婕委員質詢"},{"start":5235.54,"end":5260.948,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們請次長魏前吳次長我也好好 次長好今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下"},{"start":5264.502,"end":5285.148,"text":"委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題"},{"start":5287.794,"end":5300.787,"text":"當然這個是變成這個租別的問題啦,因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員"},{"start":5301.795,"end":5323.668,"text":"是的 這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願"},{"start":5324.988,"end":5348.881,"text":"當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。"},{"start":5353.362,"end":5374.529,"text":"這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下"},{"start":5375.39,"end":5390.83,"text":"法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是什麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點"},{"start":5396.563,"end":5413.419,"text":"對對對那我們現在講議員的部分議員的部分這個如果假設以鄭天財委員的版本他區域的會增加然後那個這個這個原名也會增加都會增加嗎因為都是財總額外加制對外加那你們支持嗎"},{"start":5415.322,"end":5443.57,"text":"我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的"},{"start":5444.23,"end":5459.64,"text":"那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就三十三條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題"},{"start":5461.181,"end":5490.056,"text":"那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席"},{"start":5490.896,"end":5509.069,"text":"也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢?是,我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的"},{"start":5515.984,"end":5538.33,"text":"他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修"},{"start":5539.468,"end":5568.83,"text":"如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那是因為保障的問題他沒有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是"},{"start":5569.23,"end":5579.218,"text":"是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎"},{"start":5580.278,"end":5606.043,"text":"是 這個我尊重 我們尊重委員的意見對 所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個 等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為"},{"start":5607.349,"end":5620.422,"text":"我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?"},{"start":5621.553,"end":5648.875,"text":"那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在即投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道"},{"start":5649.81,"end":5661.016,"text":"我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員質詢市長你們研擬什麼時候會有一個結果結論"},{"start":5672.802,"end":5680.626,"text":"今天選委會也有來嘛對不對請你們等一下我休息的時候會再詢問你們這件事情好不好謝謝繼續請黃國昌委員質詢麻煩有請次長有請吳次長"},{"start":5703.117,"end":5729.511,"text":"市長今天討論地方制度法雖然是有關乎我們原民的同胞原民的夥伴他們有關於一人席次的問題不過當我們在討論地方制度法的時候跟我們整個國家的發展區域的規劃息息相關的就是各個縣市乃至於都在地方自治的單位上我們要怎麼劃設的事情"},{"start":5730.373,"end":5745.195,"text":"有一個我覺得是非常嚴肅的問題但這個嚴肅的問題隨著選舉的炒作浮上檯面了以後現在似乎沒有人要提了也就是竹竹新竹市新竹縣"},{"start":5746.357,"end":5771.248,"text":"合併民進黨政府還要不要再推動?然後我們先回顧一下2021年9月6號的時候前新竹市長林志堅接受媒體專訪大篇幅的倡議新竹市跟新竹縣要合併那這個只是林志堅他個人的意見嗎?看起來好像也不是"},{"start":5772.59,"end":5800.316,"text":"這個時候民主進步黨的府院高層說這個足足合併要由中央由上而下來加以推動來請教一下次長這一個政策的目標跟這一個政策的方向有沒有任何改變報告委員有關於這一個合併要升格為直轄市的部分現在有兩個機制一個是由上而下一個是由下而上"},{"start":5801.253,"end":5826.76,"text":"這個我知道一樣的事情就不要再講了我已經點出來啊當初府院高層民主進步黨政府啊說這個是要由上而下來加以推動啊所以我才問你政策立場有沒有改變啊目前這一部分沒有沒有我這邊沒有去接受到說這個政策有改變沒有接受到這個政策有改變好那非常好那從2021年到目前為止2024年啊"},{"start":5829.554,"end":5856.237,"text":"蔡政府已經要下台啦那既然政策方向沒有改變那過去這兩年多具體而言請問你們做了什麼還是只是在媒體上面放話配合選舉炒作實際上什麼事情都沒幹如果政策方向沒有改變的話那你們就有必要具體的告訴國人針對足足何必由上而下推動政策方向沒有改變那請問"},{"start":5857.847,"end":5885.33,"text":"我們的主管機關做了什麼?法務委員不管是由上而下或者由下而上都必須要尊重這個名義這一部分你一定的這不是我的問題我問你的是你剛說政策方向沒改變嘛由上而下嘛足足合併嘛我的問題是這是在媒體上放話還是有具體的作為所以我請教你的是過去這兩年多你們具體的作為是什麼"},{"start":5888.142,"end":5908.801,"text":"現在因為我們現在也正在推這個行政區劃的程序法現在也在推這個你們在推行政區劃程序法目前推動的進度如何現在在行政院那邊審查你們行政院快要下台啦行政院還在審查啊他審查也有提供意見給我們要補負資料上去啦"},{"start":5909.677,"end":5936.349,"text":"所以我就說嘛你們行政院519就要下台啦結果現在還在打高空說空話說你們在規劃行政區域劃分法這不是很可笑嗎除了你們還在演你的行政區域劃分法以外你剛說政策方向沒有改變由上而下推動沒有改變你還是沒有回答我的問題具體而言過去這兩年多中央政府做了什麼"},{"start":5938.48,"end":5964.795,"text":"我要的是中央政府做了什麼請告訴大家我們如何推動這個方向沒有改變的政策過去兩年多做了什麼請告訴大家所以這就是為什麼剛剛跟委員報告就現在我們在推這個行政修法這個程序法只要這個完成之後大家就有法院的預計來處理這個問題所以顯然嘛在蔡政府519下台以前這是不可能完成的嘛我有沒有說錯"},{"start":5966.351,"end":5982.111,"text":"以這個進度的確是這樣對嘛 所以從頭到尾你還是在講空話我問你具體做了什麼你說要推遲這個具體劃分法那519之前可能提出來嗎 也不可能嘛從頭到尾就在講空話嘛我說的不對嗎"},{"start":5983.513,"end":6007.691,"text":"如果我說的不對請您具體指教您做了什麼是全體國人不知道我沒有我疏忽沒有注意到就大聲的告訴全體的國民我們內政部針對2021年由上而下政策方向沒有改變我們足足要合併的這件事情到底做了什麼報恩我剛剛特別講就是法定的完備上現在正在做"},{"start":6008.595,"end":6031.653,"text":"那除了這個由上而下的話由下而上也可以啊也不一定要由上而下沒有關係所以我一開始就定調嘛我就不喜歡你們在回答問題的時候不針對問題回答東拉西扯扯一些沒的就只是要掩飾一件事嘛 掩飾什麼事這從頭到尾就是為了選舉的炒作嘛什麼時候關心過新竹市新竹縣"},{"start":6032.935,"end":6058.696,"text":"真的關心嗎?真的關心是這種作為嗎?選舉熱度過以後想要幫小智解套失敗了以後就什麼都沒有做嘛這才是現實啊為什麼今天要在地方制度法的時候提出這個質詢啊任何政黨都有可能執政在執政的時候如果是以一黨之師為特定人量身打造的制度"},{"start":6060.131,"end":6082.445,"text":"我個人是期期以為不可拿國家的制度在開玩笑等到發現社會反彈太大解套不成結果整件事情殺手不管你們關心誰只有關心特定的政治人物可不可以選真的關心新竹市跟新竹縣的縣民你們今天的具體作為就不會是這個樣子擺爛"},{"start":6086.352,"end":6114.593,"text":"也不是啦!也不是說擺爛啦!因為我們還是有在做嘛!我們在法律、完備法律也在進行當中嘛!2023年做了什麼?針對新竹縣市的合併做了什麼評估?做了什麼規劃?做了什麼推動?我具體的請教你啦!我行政執行的時間當中除了你說老掉牙的行政區位劃分法研議了半天研議到519要下台都提不出來除了這個以外你還有什麼可以說的?"},{"start":6115.684,"end":6117.267,"text":"也不必然一定要跟選舉畫上等號"},{"start":6130.054,"end":6150.91,"text":"民進黨做的事情已經要賴到我頭上了,這樣不對吧,次長。好,沒有關係,主席已經站起來了,我尊重主席,謝謝。好,非常謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢,謝謝。也謝謝次長,謝謝。繼續我們請高卓淵美惠委員質詢。我們在黃建斌委員質詢結束,我們休息五分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":6155.848,"end":6160.029,"text":"主席,我們請次長。好,有請吳次長,謝謝。委員好。嗨,次長,早晨。次長,今天討論我們這個地方制度法裡面,因為,剛才我說,因為,不管什麼事情,都因為特定人要選。我認為,如果有這個想法,這個想法,想不下去了。"},{"start":6187.625,"end":6190.167,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":6200.796,"end":6201.817,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":6221.77,"end":6235.7,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具"},{"start":6249.24,"end":6252.146,"text":"法務委員我是不是請我們明天事先跟副總我再討論。"},{"start":6256.813,"end":6271.504,"text":"這個部分我們內部一直有在研議說各個版本會影響的其實...沒有啦!我現在是要讓你們問說會應用到、會貫徹、不管是一般性的議員像剛才所討論的說跟現任的議員不會應用到你們要外傭的嘛在外傭裡面這個譬如說一個人"},{"start":6282.052,"end":6309.779,"text":"他所有的付出的薪水也好、助力也好外債是中央要出還是地方政府要出我現在是在問你你這樣在這個官司的應用中你有去跟他們討論過嗎來啦以往有這個議員的一個相關的這個費用要不要增加的部分我們有跟地方討論過"},{"start":6312.559,"end":6331.223,"text":"因為涉及到地方的財政很多是希望說中央能夠補助不過因為這是因為地方應該支出的一個部分你算說有應用度的關係你有去問臺北農團隊主要如果外債的經費是中央來支出的時候他們又買了"},{"start":6339.846,"end":6352.334,"text":"對,基本上因為涉及到議員的部分,縣市政府大概都不會直接表達反對,但是要增加支出的部分是希望中央來補助的。對啦,這就是跟我們明代一屆的組理會一樣啦,大家都不敢反對啦,不敢說出真心話啦,就是剛才你說的這樣啦,沒有人會反對啦。"},{"start":6364.122,"end":6384.559,"text":"但是本席要跟你討論的是在我們的族群融合裡面有需要去分三個、八個你如果這樣未來,我是覺得你要慎慎再去評估一下新住民的權利、他的選舉"},{"start":6388.308,"end":6393.213,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具"},{"start":6412.146,"end":6425.791,"text":"有關要不要打破三地原住民跟平地原住民,大概民間也有過這種聲音,那我們也請那個原民會評估這方面的一個意見,但是原民會大概基本上是經過討論,目前還沒有共識。"},{"start":6428.713,"end":6434.119,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":6448.857,"end":6459.029,"text":"不然我們常常說財政正義跟族群融合跟這群人有關心跟在這邊的未來你不跟我說嗎?這新住民有可能嗎?"},{"start":6466.837,"end":6481.8,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":6496.772,"end":6497.355,"text":"案。三、審查委員"},{"start":6500.656,"end":6510.625,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具"},{"start":6529.469,"end":6546.052,"text":"現在有關主民有一千兩百九十二人,那鄉鄉剛好有兩百人進來的時候,還有一千五個人,有一個關主民的時候,是要加掛在裡面,還是要外掛?有這麼可能的,甚至我如果批論說我自己就好了,這樣勒?"},{"start":6556.063,"end":6561.747,"text":"報告委員,剛剛委員當然這個有可能,不是不可能啦。不過就是說我們先去調整一下,先去討論嘛。現在委員講說,這個三眼跟平眼,一起是不是要打破,就把它合在一塊。我想這個都可以討論。因為我感覺族群融合的時候,我感覺時空背景不一樣啦。以前的原住民說實在在三年,要討價、要生活,是非常辛苦。你也知道是怎樣,"},{"start":6584.039,"end":6588.14,"text":"會擬具所定的官署名及本地的官署名的由來所以我也希望你們做政府的人應該是要來融入一個大家庭睡得太清晨這樣也不好是,這個我們會納入研議一起討論的時候因為我剛才說的也"},{"start":6608.485,"end":6608.665,"text":"我會想這個到最後"},{"start":6623.939,"end":6639.786,"text":"不然內涵或外加,現在顯然外加是會是一個比較可行的方案。所以現在來看,但是還沒確定我們不曉得。對,還沒確定,還是台北都支持在無黨憲議會,再給這個關注民的平台的旗幟,這樣就對了。以現在的方案是這樣子。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝委員會,謝謝,謝謝,謝謝次長,謝謝。繼續我們請林思明委員質詢。"},{"start":6659.878,"end":6664.121,"text":"好,謝謝我們主席。我們請吳文明、吳次長。有請吳次長。委員好。市長,我想我首先先跟您救救我們這個大新竹矽谷計畫的問題。我想行政院規劃這個桃竹苗大矽谷計畫,期程是2024年到2027年,也就是從今年就開始要做這個計畫的一個規劃。"},{"start":6688.759,"end":6697.324,"text":"未來預計在4年內可新增6兆的產值,就業人口增加了14萬人。這個計劃也是我們即將上任的賴清德總統他競選的政見之一"},{"start":6703.587,"end":6726.286,"text":"那麼前幾天陳建仁院長也到新竹來做視察他也表示說現在桃竹苗地區是台灣之通訊、半導體、國際物流、生醫生技等產業的重要群聚區域也是我們全球最重要的半導體產業聚落之一所以本方案"},{"start":6726.846,"end":6739.632,"text":"不僅是國家未來總體發展的重要的一個政策更應該兼顧我們地方的一個需求所以我想就教次長對於我們新竹縣有兩個產業園區的規劃在過去一直被延宕"},{"start":6743.194,"end":6751.796,"text":"其中竹科三期也就是我們公園院附近的一個特定計劃區的一個都市計劃那麼也已經經過多次在內政部小組會議的一個審查那麼在明天也要在小組會來做審查"},{"start":6762.959,"end":6775.99,"text":"我想請問,因為是從2020開始嘛,到目前為止,內政部是不是已經把這個桃竹苗大細股計畫將竹科三期納入為這個計畫的這個規劃之一?"},{"start":6780.683,"end":6796.432,"text":"因為這部分是這個國科會那邊不過據我所了解他現在是有這個方向要把他納入是國科會在主導這個要不要把他納入那國科會有沒有跟您討論過"},{"start":6797.489,"end":6821.929,"text":"因為這一部分他不會跟我們討論因為我們是後面的所以你內政部完全沒有任何的資訊因為這一部分沒有到目前為止我得到的資訊是他有要把他放進去我想我剛才講得很清楚這是未來的準總統以及陳建仁院長他要離開了但是我想這個行政院應該也會去繼續推動這樣的一個產業的一個劇烈的一個發展在國發會已經把他納入這兩個的計畫有"},{"start":6825.652,"end":6854.048,"text":"所以我想內政部是不是應該更積極的跟我們的國發會去做這個這個銜接業務上的聯繫積極的更積極的去推動因為明天就要開會了欸是那明天柯山的計畫就所以你應該要有政策的指示啊是明天柯山的計畫在專案小組會去討論是那因為這些新竹縣政府的補充資料也都送過來了是這是明天會開的第一次那內政部的態度如何"},{"start":6855.083,"end":6879.594,"text":"我們當然支持這個產業的發展,因為我們一定是支持的所以對竹科三期的,因為延宕已經三十幾年了所以內政部的態度是絕對支持竹科三期的規劃是,我們支持啦,因為這個為什麼會延宕那麼久,那中間大概有一些七段徵收會有一些意見吧有些公民團體或者是這個在地的有一些地主或怎麼樣"},{"start":6880.414,"end":6880.775,"text":"案案案案案案案"},{"start":6901.909,"end":6928.849,"text":"也一樣非常的重要我想我們現在非常重視的就是我們北台灣的科技、資訊、金融、經濟和商業那竹北現在是我們全台不管是這個各項的發展可以說是非常的快也就是所得最高的一個新興的城市之一很多年輕的朋友尤其是我們科技業者都到竹北來定居以及發展"},{"start":6929.289,"end":6943.634,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":6958.098,"end":6968.065,"text":"所以台資園區一樣是很重要所以未來我們內政部是不是一樣也要積極加速來推動這個產業園區是謝謝委員對這兩個園區的這個關係因為未來這個創新科技產業的發展我想這兩個園區的扮演了很重要的角色那這一部分就內政部全管的部分那我們一定會積極來做是好不好"},{"start":6987.438,"end":6987.718,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":7006.733,"end":7013.658,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":7036.714,"end":7050.205,"text":"三地原住民,但是他們卻沒有辦法選出他們的三地原住民的議員。所以現行的法律確實有漏洞,所以市長就這個部分的修法,市長是不是完全同意?"},{"start":7051.415,"end":7072.685,"text":"報告委員我想今天有三位委員都有提這個修法的版本那基本上我剛剛特別報告過我們態度開放那我們也持這個不是開放而已啊你要同意啊我們都把問題點出來了我們認為這個方向我們朝這個方向沒有問題啦也支持這個法案的修正我們朝這個方向好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝林士明委員的質詢謝謝次長謝謝繼續我們請黃建斌委員質詢"},{"start":7088.993,"end":7090.375,"text":"審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":7098.126,"end":7122.437,"text":"市長早安市長其實今天這個議題本席其實有另外一種不同的親身的經歷那其實我想法律的修改會隨著因為我們時代的變遷而有所變動這是不變的道理嘛是不是那今天會有委員提出要修這個法案最主要原因也是因為要因應整個時代改變而要去做的事情"},{"start":7123.417,"end":7143.91,"text":"本席先分享一下本席過去的工作經驗我其實最早從事政治工作是選鄉民代表我當時選到鄉民代表才發現一件事情就是原來3D原住民是投給區域這個也就是今天提案提到的問題當然每個環境都會有不同的情況確實我覺得"},{"start":7148.874,"end":7165.564,"text":"像台中來講它是一個族群突然的地方但是因為現行的法令上它沒有辦法去兼顧到每一個族群特別是它的參政權這個部分確實真的要好好的來思考那怎麼樣讓我們先把保障每個人的參政權這權益都能夠來實行"},{"start":7168.086,"end":7196.976,"text":"那除此之外我想還要再跟市長來分享另外一件事情就是我們提到的是民選的民意代表部分我們現在講到的是公職人員部分的在台東的差異性台東是一個同工不同酬的地方以公務人員來講我想要請教市長市長你知道台東縣的公務人員有幾個不同的家籍嗎有幾種家籍你知道嗎這個我就不太清楚應該有所謂的公職人員的家籍吧"},{"start":7197.987,"end":7207.27,"text":"你們不是都有加擠嗎?清貼不是都有嗎?那是專業加擠的部分那台中有幾項?台中應該要有一個偏遠的加擠吧"},{"start":7208.839,"end":7231.59,"text":"答案揭曉我們台中有四種一個叫做東台佳籍從本席退伍的時候在公所當業務人員開始到現在630塊到現在佛心價一樣630塊都沒漲過即便現在便當一個都要100塊以上我們都沒漲過第二個叫做山地佳籍也就是會有山地相平向差別第三個叫偏遠佳籍"},{"start":7232.17,"end":7258.217,"text":"就有些地方他比較遠,他沒有辦法到山泥江的等級,他用這個方式補貼。另外就是因為臺東有兩個離島,所以有離島佳績。一個縣市政府裡面有四種的佳績,有沒有很精彩?市長,如果你今天是一個剛考上的公文委員,你到臺東去,你會選擇除了離佳績以外,你會不會因為這來做考量?佳績的差別做考量?"},{"start":7259.202,"end":7285.837,"text":"這個每個人的想法不太一樣基本上會不會啦市長會不會啦市長如果委員問我的話因為每個人的這個太陽不一樣如果是在地的話跟不是在地的想法就不太一樣了市長謝謝你的答覆我現在要分享一件事情台中縣的一個特殊的環境就是我們山地鄉跟北地鄉很多是連在一塊他可能就差一條路"},{"start":7287.793,"end":7307.83,"text":"各位看這張圖表,這是我們關山鎮跟我們的海端鄉。左邊的地方它是海端鄉,右邊它是關山鎮。中間這條路它的家籍就不一樣。我想地方的發展除了錢以外,錢以外,人是另外一個更重要的發展因素,對吧?是。"},{"start":7309.553,"end":7335.63,"text":"這樣,等於是建議啦,偏鄉地區本來發展就不容易,人才流動就是很頻繁。更應該是這樣的情況,我們應該要更想辦法讓人才能夠留在當地,協助偏遠地區的發展。我想李導也是有這樣的講義方式嘛,對不對?是,有。那台東是不是可以比照這樣的方式?對很多人來講,台東,不管你在大武鄉南端,或是北端的長濱鄉,對很多台北人來講,台東都一樣遠。"},{"start":7338.186,"end":7362.58,"text":"是吧?是。郭委員,我想這一部分有關家計的這一部分,因為跟人事單位有關係啦。那其實他們在檢討,我們也會去不斷的滾動式去檢討這個東西啦。是,因為本市到今天沒有消防部會來,不過也是希望能夠將這個問題帶回去。包括我們中部主委應該也了解啦,像我們一樣都是3D箱,大午箱跟達人箱,就是兩個不一樣的方式吧。"},{"start":7363.16,"end":7372.49,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案例。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案例。"},{"start":7384.542,"end":7407.022,"text":"每個考試來的外地人三年六年時間大概就離開我想這對地方法人是很大的傷害也希望相關部會能夠將問題帶回去在520之後現在可以開始我們來討論這件事情因為畢竟畢竟這個是我們比現在也是跟我們現在今天討論的這個3D屏蔽人住民的這期是一樣嚴重的事情委員這個我們會帶給人事大會去演繹"},{"start":7412.228,"end":7413.288,"text":"案案案案"},{"start":7441.787,"end":7453.657,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":7458.301,"end":7466.812,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7483.02,"end":7487.363,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具、「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7489.893,"end":7515.19,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7525.555,"end":7541.356,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具、「地方制度法第八條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具、「地方制度法第八條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7544.719,"end":7569.43,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":7569.77,"end":7583.985,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":7588.429,"end":7605.817,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7607.278,"end":7627.725,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7636.688,"end":7643.43,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":7644.691,"end":7669.692,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7671.773,"end":7697.042,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委員"},{"start":7698.003,"end":7708.083,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7713.8,"end":7741.235,"text":"案。三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。四、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。五、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之"},{"start":7743.119,"end":7768.395,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、"},{"start":7771.677,"end":7779.162,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7781.996,"end":7808.814,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。"},{"start":7812.617,"end":7830.429,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":7834.231,"end":7854.363,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":7856.323,"end":7880.088,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":7892.381,"end":7894.636,"text":"案。三、審查委員"},{"start":7912.722,"end":7934.951,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7941.405,"end":7948.657,"text":"一條文修正草"},{"start":7955.974,"end":7979.969,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":7981.664,"end":8008.814,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、"},{"start":8011.155,"end":8037.389,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案 案。兩、"},{"start":8043.729,"end":8065.088,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":8101.103,"end":8101.883,"text":"好,我們現在繼續開會,請李博義委員質詢。"},{"start":8112.709,"end":8113.151,"text":"韓文淺胡次長"},{"start":8121.08,"end":8143.586,"text":"謝謝,針對今天我們排定的這個地方制度法修正草案的這個審查有關地方制度法第33條原住民地方議員保障的規定那我先講一下直轄市好了一樣在33條的直轄市裡面,像高雄市高雄市這個三個原民區都有選出區長以前鄉長"},{"start":8146.387,"end":8171.675,"text":"也有選出議員所以高雄市議會目前的狀況有三個原住民、原民區的議員還有一位平原的議員這是高雄市的狀況高雄市直轄市的議員總額在高雄市超過200萬不得超過62人但是他的原住民議員就是另外加上去的這個次長"},{"start":8173.783,"end":8198.103,"text":"但是我們現在今天的修法討論是在討論縣市的議員的部分那所以其實除了剛剛美會議員有提出有沒有跟這些縣市來做出這些溝通之外那我覺得我們也必須要把現在縣市遇到的狀況也必須要拿出來討論一下那我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須要正式的就是說"},{"start":8199.515,"end":8227.086,"text":"來我們縣市議員在第二條的規定縣市議員在1萬人口1萬以下不得超過11人那20萬以下不得超過19人也就是總額19人40萬以下33人這個可能市長你腦中已經浮現有哪一些縣市在40萬上下好80萬以下不得超過43人也就是說"},{"start":8228.306,"end":8253.154,"text":"如果現在的縣市有八十萬那人口有八十萬當他在2026的時候人口已經少於八十萬的時候他的議員的人數會從43人降到33人請問市長這樣的縣市有哪幾個縣市還是要請市長我先回答等一下請市長補充"},{"start":8255.45,"end":8274.791,"text":"現在大概有幾個縣市會降比較多,就是我講的這個屏東跟台東。屏東跟台東,屏東會降幾席?會降12席。降12席,所以我們除了在處理這個,今天我先講齁,因為我過去在高雄市議會的時候,我們幾位呃,園民區的呃,"},{"start":8277.333,"end":8297.478,"text":"三元跟平原的議員為地方爭取很多建設,為他們族人爭取很多福利,他們的問政都是非常優秀的。那我們也會支持說,朝這個方向來討論,到底其他縣市的平原我們要不要來增加,用額外增加的方式,這個方向也都是好的。"},{"start":8298.058,"end":8324.481,"text":"但是遇到縣市議員他是用總額來納的時候請問我們是不是要修改這個總額還是要朝這個方向來做整體的討論我覺得這個是更必要先必須要一起討論的東西對就是說如果現在討論這個要一起討論或者讓他降的速度會非常快舉例啦舉例屏東屏東如果真的降了11席再增加12席再增加平原"},{"start":8325.282,"end":8326.364,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":8340.643,"end":8352.459,"text":"草這個方向來做因為如果內涵的話你會影響到區域但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重就是說人口不到80萬跟人口不到40萬一次吊了11席議員一次吊了1⁴的這個總額的議員這個在地方的"},{"start":8358.526,"end":8379.203,"text":"政治的運作上這個是非常大的問題希望內政部也一併要把這一個案子跟把原住民的這個案子跟地方議員總額的這個案子一併來做一個檢討我們希望是緩降的方式而不是一次就檢了那麼多目前這個方案裡面沒有所以我建議是一致的要來做一個討論跟檢討謝謝委員謝謝李博文委員的質詢謝謝次長的回應謝謝繼續我們請"},{"start":8388.363,"end":8388.683,"text":"吳思耀委員質詢。"},{"start":8405.484,"end":8433.675,"text":"時間很短,我把握時間。針對今天排審地方制度法三十三條,希望能夠擴大對原住民族國人參政的保障。在態度上我們當然是正面的,只是在操作的執行上我們需要再找出一個最高的共識、最好的方向。回到選舉制度上,我們應當好好去思考,要繼續去區分山地原住民、繼續去區分平地原住民,有這個必要嗎?"},{"start":8435.355,"end":8436.596,"text":"三、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具"},{"start":8465.355,"end":8478.105,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":8488.428,"end":8507.589,"text":"這很奇怪啦所以我認為在審議這個條文是真的可以再商榷高金素梅交委的版本其實是一個可以討論的方向那另外我想就教於您今天這個法案修下去之後第一波就是說也是會受影響的縣市大概有八個嘛你們有沒有跟這些縣市徵詢他們的意見"},{"start":8510.776,"end":8522.239,"text":"因為這個還沒有確定說還沒有正式去跟這個縣市政府你們應該預作準備啊立法院都在排審了耶任何一個跟地方縣市的執行而且這個是姿勢體大選舉的名額不管內涵外加這影響當地的縣市政府還有他受監督的縣市議會的這個議員的組成耶和其重大所以如果你還沒有去徵詢那今天審這個那恐怕"},{"start":8538.464,"end":8559.179,"text":"還值得商榷,趕快去徵詢好嗎?否則立法院跑太快,可是地方政府跟不上,我想這不是提案委員所樂見的,可以嗎?的確,因為這個涉及到可能也不只是席次的問題,你如果有徵檢的話還涉及到經費來源的問題,也就是說地方的希望要去增加嘛,而且這是地方政府要負擔的財源喔,對不對?"},{"start":8562.481,"end":8590.122,"text":"那進入我另外一個主題今天我們在關心原住民族的權益那我要跟您談談反歧視法好下一頁校園不斷出發生出現對於原住民族汙名化或是歧視性的言論從國教到高教我這邊秀出來的有我就以去年2023年台中一中發生了大學端台大言論院也發生了歧視原住民族的海報"},{"start":8591.323,"end":8594.267,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":8604.625,"end":8623.478,"text":"台灣需要反歧視法這是落實讓人權條約國內法化所以國際的人權公約第一種就是我們今天相關的種族歧視的國際公約台灣必須有一個國內法來反映我們跟進國際反歧視一切平等的作為下一頁"},{"start":8624.258,"end":8643.134,"text":"台灣需要一部反歧視法因為我們要跟上聯合國SDGs的目標而當中一個指標減少不平等的這個指標就包括對於所有人的尊嚴他的社經地位生存平等政府都要給予包容跟支持的政策來協助他下一頁"},{"start":8647.202,"end":8673.545,"text":"可是次長你看喔,現在台灣對於反歧視的是散列於各法而且現行的法律是欠缺一致性譬如說我們對性別平等教育法、性別平等工作法是對於性別的平等保障那對於原住民族有一個工作權益的保障可是他就沒有那麼嚴謹我們對於新住民也試圖在入出國籍移民法去規範但是他散列各法,各法欠缺一致性下一頁"},{"start":8675.186,"end":8701.192,"text":"所以說我非常樂見我們不分藍綠的立委反族群歧視法在台灣在國會已經有四位委員提案了藍綠都有但是他是focus在反族群歧視法提案的都是原住民族的委員包括本黨的吳立華委員包括本黨的陳寅委員好下一頁我要就教於您的就是"},{"start":8702.406,"end":8724.741,"text":"如果說是四位委員所提的反族群的平等法都會落在主管機關是內政部或是原民會但如果說反歧視法現在法務部以及行政院的人權及轉型正義處同時在研議一個適用於所有對象不同對象的"},{"start":8726.114,"end":8754.739,"text":"國家級的反歧視法或稱為平等法。」這是法務部在草擬。換言之下一頁我為什麼這個提問呢?因為陳建仁院長在去年5月接受立法院院會委員的總質詢的時候他說會委由內政部來提出反族群歧視平等法的修法也就是要有內政部的布板但是他是focus在族群歧視的部分"},{"start":8755.279,"end":8758.142,"text":"可是因為我是司法法制委員會我也質詢了法務部部長法務部現在回覆給我說行政院傾向於要把它成為一部專法而不是單獨針對族群做一個單獨的立法所以我就要問你們了"},{"start":8770.634,"end":8786.033,"text":"現在內政部對於族群平等法有繼續研議嗎還是已經停下腳步隨同法務部這個國家內閣一致的用一個反歧視的專法含納所有的反歧視行為現在你們的研議跟方向是什麼"},{"start":8787.767,"end":8798.559,"text":"法務委員,我想要先強調,任何歧視是不被允許的。這一部分當初在移民法修正的時候有提到這個反歧視。"},{"start":8803.863,"end":8819.989,"text":"現在講說那這麼大嚴厲反歧視的租金平等法目前是沒有在我們移民署這邊是沒有沒有沒有所以應當就是配合法務部以及行政院的平等處去做一個專法的方向很好下一頁"},{"start":8820.709,"end":8829.855,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審"},{"start":8842.664,"end":8843.624,"text":"內政委員會委員一定都會支持,好嗎?"},{"start":8870.969,"end":8886.273,"text":"謝謝主席。好,謝謝吳思耀委員的質詢。謝謝,謝謝次長。繼續我們請莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄委員不在、何新淳、何新淳、何新淳委員不在、劉徐廷委員質詢。謝謝主席。次長有請。"},{"start":8899.241,"end":8901.142,"text":"來我們請次長謝謝這我們先討論的地方制度法的修正那先討論這個原住民的部分剛剛大體上我們也聽了不同的委員對這個法案的不同的想法那其中很多人去提到原住民的身份的認定從光復之後到現在都沒有檢討修正是不是要一併來做處理這當然有一定的道理"},{"start":8924.797,"end":8938.966,"text":"那當然也有這個委員有提到有關這個席次的總額是不是也要做一遍的檢討這些當然都可以討論這本席也同意去做討論但我就要問這過去八年為什麼都不做呢你要不要回答一下"},{"start":8940.598,"end":8959.645,"text":"我想以前也曾經都有討論過這些啦,不是說沒有討論,只是說現在正式有提案嘛,提案要去討論這個東西,那我們就回過頭來看說這個肺炎病相的這個3D研究品在整個目前現行的地方制度法三十三條是沒有保障到這一塊。"},{"start":8961.486,"end":8980.456,"text":"所以說眼下立刻在面對的其實就是這些沒有山地鄉的縣市相對來講山地原住民的投票權益他其實變相被剝奪也就是理論上我們按照法律的精神跟規則我們應該選出山地原住民的代表但實務上法規的缺漏讓他們沒有辦法選出山地原住民的代表甚至要去選一般的漢人的這個區域的議員這是不是一個問題"},{"start":8985.805,"end":9008.004,"text":"是一個問題對不對?是。所以即便大家去談說原住民的身份要不要一起做檢討?席次的總額要一起做檢討?這都不構成啦!今天這個法案因為知識體大因為要檢討所以我們懷疑、在意我想是不構成這樣子的理由啦!市長同意我這樣的說法嗎?是。不過我報告委員我要特別強調整個雖然現在沒有"},{"start":9008.964,"end":9023.153,"text":"現在這個保障沒有保障到這一塊不代表他沒有參政權他還是有參政權對他的參政權在實際上就是變相被剝奪我剛剛講了嘛他應該要有自己的代表可是實務上他做不到這件事情所以我想這修法法條更動其實數量不多啦"},{"start":9023.573,"end":9024.813,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":9041.698,"end":9056.658,"text":"因為你把通關案檢討又變成知識體大就又變成實際上在台灣占有多數的非原住民的民意代表在決定這群人的命運我覺得好像也不是太妥適啦所以作為權益的機制我是希望這樣子的法案修正可以盡速的來過關那當然同步啊"},{"start":9059.261,"end":9080.341,"text":"我們就開始針對原住民的身份針對席射種而做大體的討論兩者並進其實是不衝突的這樣子我們在短期內兼顧了這樣子目前參政權受到偏向剝奪政權的權益但是我們也開始針對長遠的制度規則做討論市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎"},{"start":9088.1,"end":9110.277,"text":"第二部分我們今天討論地方制度法除了我們討論原住民的權益之外另外也討論到直轄市、縣市合併改制升格的狀況過去行政院主政的政務委員曾經講我們在討論過去的行政區劃程序法或者是行政區劃法的規定的時候他們有講說現在地制法就可以啦可是從法理的角度來講"},{"start":9111.478,"end":9136.088,"text":"2010年所適用的地方制度法施設合併改制的規定是因為我們沒有行政區劃法因為沒有行政區劃法所以它是一個權宜的措施市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?"},{"start":9138.482,"end":9153.627,"text":"後來因為還一直在討論因為有一些不同的意見那內政部是不是應該要趕快加緊來做討論我們現在已經送到院裡面院員審查那有一些要補充資料現在退這個回到我們部裡面我們再整理一些補充資料這個喔"},{"start":9154.867,"end":9170.224,"text":"第九屆就提過,第十屆委員也提過,民進黨也有提過,民眾黨曾經也都提過,但都沒有辦法完成立法。我是覺得非常可惜啦。當然大家都講說行政區化這件事情可能要盡量求穩定,可是怎麼樣要有一個遊戲規則嗎?"},{"start":9171.665,"end":9197.095,"text":"那有一個遊戲規則讓大家有一個遊戲規則可以去依循的時候我們才能夠基於選區生活品質的需要來去做行政區化的合理調整讓它切合真正生活圈的這樣一個規範嘛 對不對所以我想這個法案有絕對的必要性而且它是絕對是民生法案啦本期在這裡表達我們的立場嘛我不希望這樣子的民生法案啦因為立法院難免政治位很濃厚但是政治位再怎麼濃厚我們都不能耽誤民生法案的修法"},{"start":9197.455,"end":9216.816,"text":"那既然這個我們未來的總統這過去他在行政院長的時候是他的重要的施政目標我也希望未來的內政部啊把行政缺乏法律修訂啊那會第一優先的目標市長同意嗎這個我們會加速來做有沒有一個具體的時間表你剛剛講說已經送到立法院然後有一定的有一定的期程什麼時候我們可以看到院版的草案"},{"start":9220.444,"end":9242.171,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們在補充資料我們會馬上送到行政院去做審理不要馬上大概有沒有一個比如一個月內兩個月大概可以看到草案嘛對不對我們要看到草案我們才做功課準備要修法嘛是我們會盡量快啦因為行政院那邊的審理的時間我們沒辦法去掌握不過我們這邊會你不是行政院的代表你行政院審議時間沒有辦法掌控"},{"start":9243.187,"end":9267.993,"text":"我沒辦法因為送到行政院行政院什麼時候開會也就送到你長官放在長官的桌上就對了也不會啦你今天回去這個跟院內報告的時候你就講委員都非常關心這個法案的修正好不好希望他趕快有一個版本可以出來那本席當然啦這個試測我選區的權益啊我們的選區就有地處邊界就有很多的地方是希望透過行政計畫的合理調整讓生活圈能夠一致有這樣的需求"},{"start":9268.413,"end":9294.965,"text":"所以本席也會提出相關的立法草案但是既然這個是不分藍綠的一個施政方向當然也要有一個院版認為可以執行的草案大家來討論的時候它會比較具體啦所以說我們也不要說到最後又只有委員的版本沒有行政院的版本這樣是不太好的好不好所以這個是我再提醒這是賴清德準總統曾經的非常重要的目標我希望在這個任期裡面可以讓這個法案可以順利的修正來過關大家充分來做討論可以嗎好謝謝市長辛苦了"},{"start":9297.554,"end":9300.897,"text":"好,謝謝劉學廷委員的質詢,謝謝次長的回應,謝謝繼續我們請徐宇貞委員質詢主席好,我們請內政部吳次長請吳次長委員好"},{"start":9322.308,"end":9339.856,"text":"我想針對今天有關地方制度法的修法是有關我們沒有山地鄉的縣市的原住民在1500人以上的應該有原住民選出的這個議員名額的一個修法也是對我們原住民的政治參與跟權益有一個正面的注意"},{"start":9341.276,"end":9366.108,"text":"舉例來說,在113年2月的雲林縣的人口統計,您可以看到我們的平地原住民有1442位,山地原住民有1417位,但是因為都沒有達到1500人,所以原住民的聲音一直沒有辦法被反映出來。那未來如果修法有通過的話,雲林縣的山地原住民跟平地原住民"},{"start":9366.528,"end":9393.181,"text":"合計就有超過1500人就可以產生一席的原住民的議員,那他們的聲音就可以被反映。而且修法呢,我想,雖然有幾個樣態,我要請教一下這個次長。請問一下次長,為了不影響既有的議員席次,修法通過之後,新增的這個原住民的議員的席次,是不是可以在原有的名額外增加一席原住民的議員席次?"},{"start":9394.762,"end":9420.984,"text":"法委員如果三十三條修過了以後若採外加的話當然這個就跟區域就沒關係就不影響了我想這樣的話可能就不會去影響原有的議員的席次那另外就是說現在修法通過之後可能會有幾個樣態首先請教您就是說如果平地原住民剛剛我覺得平原跟山原加起來是超過1500人所以說就會增加一個平地"},{"start":9421.904,"end":9441.348,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案：一、審查委員�"},{"start":9448.601,"end":9477.354,"text":"我這個這個就扯到這個有點複雜了如果這樣可以把尾數給人家這樣鬥的話不過我們現在條件現在確定三元跟平原要不要合併打破合併來一起所以剛剛我要前面第一個樣態就是三元跟平原這個合併計算嘛對那我現在只是提醒你們就是這些樣態有非常多種那可能大家一定要審慎的去研擬之後才能夠對才能夠對提出對我們三元平原最有利的一個狀況那也讓他們可以充分的"},{"start":9478.135,"end":9493.133,"text":"參與我們的這個在政治那可以充分的發聲是那另外我再請教一下我們今天要探討的是地方制度法的相關條文的修正其中剛剛有提到的就是行政區劃法那因為這個是在106年的時候"},{"start":9496.557,"end":9514.218,"text":"實任行政院長賴清德總總統在年終記者會議均衡台灣為題宣誓要啟動台灣行政區劃重劃而且他也在107年的5月行政院也通過了行政區劃法的草案那請問一下當然這中間經過第九屆、第十屆"},{"start":9515.58,"end":9530.218,"text":"可是到現在都還沒有完成這個立法,既然是賴清德總總統擔任行政院長的時候認為行政催化法有其重要性,請問在這麼長的一段時間內,為什麼沒有提出政府版的草案?"},{"start":9530.598,"end":9533.56,"text":"一直拖到現在才說送行政院。"},{"start":9549.013,"end":9572.737,"text":"禮拜零七年通過行政區劃法的草案到現在已經有五、六年了,那為什麼這麼長的時間都沒有辦法真正把行政院的草案送到立法院來審議?我想以前有送到立法院,只是那時候的名稱後來又改了,又改了名稱,加了一個程序。所以現在到底是什麼樣的原因會拖到現在?"},{"start":9573.411,"end":9593.352,"text":"因為外界有不同的意見進來再加上我們也委託了做了一個研究委託中正大學做了一個研究那去年底有出來啦那我們根據這個研究我們再去這個裝整一些內容條文因為我想這個既然是這個總總統賴清德他在單人新聞院長時候提出來的嘛"},{"start":9593.772,"end":9617.498,"text":"所以我覺得內政部應該要重視這件事情要盡快的把行政院的草案能夠盡快送到立法院來審議另外我再想請教你蔡英文總統任內說她要20萬戶的社會住宅其中12萬戶是新建的住宅但是根據內政部不動產的資訊平台顯示我們可以看一下在2024年3月31日的達成數規劃中的是28637戶"},{"start":9623.039,"end":9646.622,"text":"以絕標帶開工的是28,964戶,新建中的是39,936戶,12萬戶中有97,537戶還沒有辦法居住,現在離520卸任日期差不多只剩一個月了,還有承諾中的81.28的社會住宅不曉得在哪裡。請問一下,這個就是內政部非常重視的社會住宅的規劃嗎?"},{"start":9648.397,"end":9674.157,"text":"報告委員,我們這個興建部分是12萬戶,那報酬貸款是8萬戶那實際上這個到3月底是9萬8千戶左右那以這樣的一個速度,我們認為在年底之前可以達成20萬戶的目標也就是說現在還有81.28%還沒有達到,你們在年底之前就可以達到"},{"start":9675.509,"end":9691.372,"text":"是大名字嗎?因為有一些陸陸續續都有在開工因為我剛剛有跟你講這個數據的嘛所以你們認為你們在過去這幾年沒有辦法只完成了19點19%左右在未來到年底這就可以完成"},{"start":9692.173,"end":9692.713,"text":"案。二、審查委員賴清德等100萬戶。"},{"start":9714.087,"end":9725.578,"text":"連20萬戶都做不到,未來100萬戶是不是有可能做到?所以這個部分請內政部一定要審慎的來去處理這樣,不可以再把民眾愚弄喔,拜託大家,謝謝。是,這個我們會努力,謝謝。謝謝徐育貞委員的質詢,謝謝。謝謝,也謝謝吳次長,謝謝。繼續我們請許新穎委員質詢。"},{"start":9743.752,"end":9746.733,"text":"謝謝主席本席請吳次長有請吳次長次長好剛剛在內政委員會林思明委員有特別質詢您就請教您就是說我們新竹縣的臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區還有科學園區三旗的案子"},{"start":9768.061,"end":9768.081,"text":"當初計劃"},{"start":9784.352,"end":9808.477,"text":"但是現在會議都在內政部開都委會這兩個在我們開都委會這個OK沒問題但桃竹苗的大細股的這個計畫這個是在國科會那邊那次次長不好意思請教您你應該擔任次長比本席第11屆來就任委員久嗎您大概擔任次長多久我一年多"},{"start":9809.097,"end":9824.069,"text":"一年多內政部都委會專案小組會議開了非常多次本席在第8屆當立法委員的時候就已經台灣知識經濟旗艦園區的計畫就一直開"},{"start":9829.612,"end":9852.141,"text":"開的時候剛剛您也回覆這個林斯林委員嘛你說他有問你說那為什麼這個都一直不能進入大會還有這個案為什麼不能通過那您的答覆是因為還有很多這個反對的意見是不是公民團體那我在這裡必須要讓次長您知道回去也要"},{"start":9853.361,"end":9877.037,"text":"讓部長知道本席也已經質詢過我們行政院長其實這個是錯誤的從頭到尾中央耽誤地方中央怎麼耽誤地方本席講給你聽就是其實所有的會議每一次會議有不同的意見新竹縣政府就在開完會之後就去溝通協調而且去解決"},{"start":9878.154,"end":9897.416,"text":"即便在都委會的專案會議中已經問題都解決了,可是我們都委會很厲害,召集人把它變化一下,換個召集人,結果新的召集人上來,什麼案子都不知道,全部重新來。"},{"start":9898.717,"end":9900.679,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等十三條條文修正草"},{"start":9915.35,"end":9931.336,"text":"已經不願意徵收的都已經答應他原地保留甚至各種零零星星的意見都已經答覆而且地方都已經大家達成共識了現在只等我們中央"},{"start":9932.216,"end":9951.322,"text":"就是中央換召集人全部重來本席同時再告訴你我們地方人士還有我們縣政府的局處首長他們覺得很怪的一個點在於你在開會的時候各個單位都邀請來就像明天要召開的"},{"start":9952.963,"end":9964.319,"text":"內政部之外,環境部、農業部、文化部、寇委會、國科會、經濟部、水利署、財政部、電力公司你全部找來了。在現場有問題,徵詢大家答覆。"},{"start":9968.124,"end":9990.374,"text":"然後達成共識有決議。結果呢,開完會以後,我們中央又再寒巡各單位。再寒巡一次,大家搞不懂為什麼。同樣的事情一直做一直做,這個就輪迴。一直的一個迴圈,你就是不願意核准。問題全部都解決了,還是不願意核准。次長你覺得這什麼問題?"},{"start":9995.713,"end":10018.279,"text":"我想你委員剛剛講的這個大概在一般的這個案子裡面也許有發生這樣的情形不是一般案子就是台灣知識經濟旗艦園區的案子這個案子我想因為委員專家那個專案小組的委員都有一些意見那希望能夠這個新竹縣政府能夠去做好這些社會溝通意見都已經解決了"},{"start":10019.139,"end":10040.053,"text":"然後你們再換一個新的召集人本席剛剛已經講你就再換一個召集人然後這個召集人他什麼狀況過去沒有參與過去來不及參與所以他又重新來一次這個案子會十幾年就是這樣鬼打牆一直中央擔任地方中央擔任地方這是最大的問題"},{"start":10041.468,"end":10063.674,"text":"所以這一點本席請你回去,你們不要再這樣,如果再這樣我們也會有對峙的方法。好,這個剩下一分鐘本席要就今天地方制度法修正條文請教,請教次長。今天內政部報告第四頁提到,基於離島地區的特殊需要建議在"},{"start":10065.094,"end":10075.397,"text":"既有法規基礎上,是實際需要適時辦理修訂。」這句話應該是在回應我們李導的陳奕真委員的提案吧?是。"},{"start":10076.789,"end":10104.428,"text":"請問次長您同不同意照顧離島的政策?同意對不對?沒關係你就回答一下,同意嘛請問次長報告這樣回應的意思是要建議修正離島建設條例嗎?如果有需要的話我們認為去修這個地方那到底有沒有需要?那就看地方那地方覺得有需要所以你就覺得要修正離島建設條例那請問次長是不是也可以訂專法?"},{"start":10106.115,"end":10123.067,"text":"我跟委員報告,訂專是委員講的這個基本法以現在基本法我們現在訂都按照特殊設任北來做這個基本法的這個訂定沒有針對區域北在訂定基本法這是一個那第二個就是說我們現在離島建設條例啊"},{"start":10124.648,"end":10135.402,"text":"已經對這個離島的這個有照有有做到照顧如果因為文化教育或者社福這些沒有照顧到所以我們來建議說可以在離島建設條例去修正"},{"start":10137.073,"end":10155.38,"text":"好,所以你建議離島政策條例可以去修正,那所以內政部是不是責無旁貸?應該要積極的研擬,主動提案,照顧起我們離島國人的責任,那不要讓立法委員提案後又反對修法。國會去討論,因為這個離島政策條例是那個國會那邊訂立的法令嘛,那我們會來跟他們去討論。"},{"start":10163.394,"end":10163.494,"text":"請鄭天財委員質詢"},{"start":10195.354,"end":10221.835,"text":"主席、國務委員、有請次長、還有中副主委。兩位好。三地原住民、平地原住民的劃分已經行之有年,而且是憲法明定。所以當初"},{"start":10223.426,"end":10235.333,"text":"當初本席在擔任處長計劃處的嚴明會的企劃處處長朝你這個原住民身份法的時候就是因為憲法"},{"start":10237.385,"end":10265.244,"text":"還留著山地原住民跟平地原住民的規定所以在制定原住民身份法的時候必須還是有山地原住民跟平地原住民所以這個部分已經涉及到憲法的層次這是第一個第二個今天我們談地方制度法三十三條本期要特別跟這個"},{"start":10266.698,"end":10289.683,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委"},{"start":10291.51,"end":10319.035,"text":"直轄市有原住民人口在四千人以上的一千項總額內應由原住民選出直轄市議員沒有分三三平三而且是要在總額之內在馬英九執政開始的時候因為為了因應他要提出五都五都的這個政策"},{"start":10320.089,"end":10347.918,"text":"所以要修地方制度法本席那時候不是副主委民國97年98年的時候本席已經降掉紀監了降掉紀監但是本席親自跟張仁香主任委員報告是不是用這樣的機會直轄市要多成立了會涉及到臺中縣市的合併"},{"start":10349.651,"end":10377.497,"text":"台南縣市的合併、高雄縣市的合併怎麼樣因應原住民的參政權不受到影響所以本席提出了這個修正條文給張仁香主任委員後來他指派我去參加內政部的會議參加會議之前我跟這個內政部當時的次長林中生次長先溝通協調"},{"start":10379.258,"end":10406.026,"text":"他支持按照現在的條文現在的條文就是分三顏平顏這樣才能夠保障因為沒辦法因為本來的台南縣市有啊有分啊包括台中縣市有分啊高雄縣市有分啊不去處理的話絕對會減少所以去做了這樣的一個"},{"start":10407.148,"end":10435.028,"text":"而且人數本來是四千人,那就各兩千,而且還比現議員的高一千五百,所以也符合所以內政部當初就接受,而且為了避免影響七億的議員、七億的直轄市議員的名額,所以也做了"},{"start":10435.967,"end":10464.736,"text":"不在總額之內,不影響區議的意願。」所以必須要去,嚴明會有很大的責任,因為政府也沒有那麼重大,對於政府的官員來講沒有那麼重大,但是對於原住民而言是很重大。所以原住民的,嚴明會要主動去溝通去協調,然後把這個方向要把它抓住,抓好。"},{"start":10465.76,"end":10494.076,"text":"所以今天也不是第一次審查我們上一屆審查很可惜沒有過所以這樣的一個情況之下地方立法機關組織準則對於直轄市的部分也是在不影響7億的名額不影響7億的名額其他的議員、7億的議員、立委也不會反對所以這個部分本席提出"},{"start":10495.316,"end":10524.425,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案。四、審查委員鄭天"},{"start":10524.957,"end":10551.294,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案："},{"start":10552.256,"end":10581.336,"text":"相親族室有超過嗎?還有呢?還有呢?對不對?我們不影響,不要去影響契約。所以這個部分,這樣的話,你要一個很具體的方向說明給所有的立法委員,他們就會去支持,就不會產生那個疑慮啊。質詢的時候一直談那個疑慮,"},{"start":10582.654,"end":10584.016,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":10598.826,"end":10616.743,"text":"非常謝謝鄭天財委員在特別的強調我們並沒有在現行的一般區域的議員裡面的總額而是外加的所以並不會影響目前的區域立法議員的席次這是特別要強調的一點謝謝繼續我們請張志倫委員質詢"},{"start":10630.188,"end":10655.833,"text":"主席好,各位官員、各位委員,大家早安,大家好。是不是有請政次?有請吳次長。我也好。好,政次早安。那今天討論這個地制法非常重要。我們大家都知道我們地方會選出我們所有地方縣市首長以及縣市議員,以及各位民意代表、鄉鎮市長代表,以及我們的里長。"},{"start":10656.833,"end":10686.133,"text":"今天在討論地制法的時候我本席個人感覺好像我們地方第一線直接面對民眾的這些里長的權益好像有受到忽視所以本席先針對過去存在已久的里長的問題的定義跟權益的問題來跟正式來做請教因為從本席的角度內政部現在好像把里長的工作授予好像叫做榮譽職的部分"},{"start":10686.973,"end":10712.4,"text":"沒有薪資的待遇只有一些些許的補助比如說像健檢的費用跟保險費尤其大家可以從過去不管是疫情的那陣子里長非常的辛苦有些時候都是24小時不停的在工作可是有些基本的勞工的權益都沒有也跟正式報告"},{"start":10713.2,"end":10730.95,"text":"現在全臺灣有七千七百四十八位里長村里長六都超過半數這數字六都超過半數高達四千一百六十八位請問一下就正式而言我們的里長到底屬於我們的民意代表還是一般的壽星階層"},{"start":10739.012,"end":10750.699,"text":"村里長的定位我們認為是村里公務的一個受託人他是公務人員嗎村里公務的受託人他是要受鄉鎮市的一個指揮"},{"start":10752,"end":10770.705,"text":"是,什麼叫,你可以再解釋清楚什麼叫做受託人,他是,到底算是公務人員還是算是這個一般的壽刑階級?呃,包委員,因為基本上村議長他是可以兼職的,他可以兼做他的商業,所以基本上他不是公務人員,他沒辦法像公務人員這樣受到規範。"},{"start":10772.96,"end":10789.077,"text":"所以要跟政事這邊拜託因為包含臺北市、台中市很多地方政府都希望中央可以以法令來明確讓大家知道里長的地位到底是什麼權利義務到底是什麼"},{"start":10789.457,"end":10814.425,"text":"到底有哪一些的權利?因為現在其實一般的機車里長非常的辛苦都有過勞的一個情況而且常常過超時工作沒有拿到任何的補償地方都是怨聲載道請問中央的這部分是不是可以來協助地方來做明確的法令的一些定位?到底里長的職位是什麼?他們有沒有一些比如像勞動者一樣的一些的補助跟津貼?"},{"start":10816.171,"end":10845.329,"text":"有關村里村里長目前很多接受了很多各部會這個委託的這些工作那我們也接受到地方反映說村里長所要兼的各部會交辦的任務實在太多所以我們也詢問給各個部會對於各個部會回到他們應該做的事項的部分盡量減少這個村里長要去做的這些任務事實上這些工作"},{"start":10845.849,"end":10852.753,"text":"可能村里長在要負責一個里長要負責我簡單我來請當初全臺灣的村里長來請議有沒有辦法齁村里長有沒有辦法保勞健保勞退退休金的部分有沒有辦法來協助"},{"start":10863.243,"end":10883.051,"text":"因為村里長他不是公務員所以姚建寶的這個部分還是回到村里長輸入補助費的一個規定他還是可以這個有村里長的一個保險好我們目前在這個部分我拜託中央再來研議那第二個三節獎金年終獎金的部分有沒有辦法幫村里長來協助"},{"start":10884.372,"end":10885.313,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":10899.915,"end":10924.29,"text":"正式的部分可以來回答一下有沒有辦法幫所有辛苦的村里長來做一個慰問的部分我想很多的委員大概都非常關心我們村里長的這一個不管事務會的部分或者是保險或甚至於所謂的春節慰問金的部分有沒有辦法有沒有辦法中央趕快來研議一下因為真的不管是"},{"start":10925.271,"end":10932.173,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草"},{"start":10947.92,"end":10966.141,"text":"這個大概要去討論的不只是我們的部分還有包括縣市政府因為這些未來如果有這些項目的話那他的裁員都是地方政府必須要去編列那他有些縣市政府的裁員是有限的所以這個必須要縣市政府大家要這個共識那最後一個我最在意的就是"},{"start":10967.202,"end":10991.163,"text":"村里長都有過時的一個加班費有沒有辦法領救加班費第二個然後最後我要特別強調最近一直在提到過去不及疫情的時候很多村里長要去送這些疫情的相關的物品非常的危險而且第一線有時候都會接觸到這些染疫的人而且最近很多的這個地震停電他們都跑第一線有沒有可能給一個叫做危險的津貼"},{"start":10992.344,"end":11008.615,"text":"不然他誰願意第一線跑到第一線去來做這些事情?因為這一部分我們所有村里長都有保險甚至我們現在保險已經把這個寶盒500萬都拉到1000萬了所以我想這一部分是有保險可以去cover"},{"start":11008.755,"end":11037.487,"text":"好,所以拜託再盡快來去演繹剛剛講到三級的獎金年終獎金的部分那我再講一下剛剛很多的委員有提到說我們原住民的這個選舉的部分有總共我們有統計2020年的時候統計1,253間投票所裡面只有一張原住民的選票顧名思義就是會有這個選票這個大家會知道說到底他是投誰那這個不在籍投票的部分你們有沒有演繹大概要怎麼做"},{"start":11038.588,"end":11053.706,"text":"這一部分先委會有在願意那現在就那個秘密投票一個人的部分那現在採取都是徵選以後去做集中投票後的投票那拜託1653間投票所要趕快來集中把這個問題要解決不然的話投票率會變低好最後一個問題"},{"start":11054.927,"end":11077.75,"text":"就這次2024的總統跟立委選舉本席就知道非常多的警消人員沒辦法回去投票請問一下內政部這邊是不是要來研議為什麼那麼多警消人員他在第一線在協助執勤的時候為什麼都沒辦法回去投票為什麼他們沒有列入在不再一起投票或是不再當這個不再投票的範圍"},{"start":11080.09,"end":11099.076,"text":"報告委員這一部分執行中的這個員警的部分當然我們現在因為不再計投票還沒有開始那我們這一部分大概解決方式大概用排班的方式來解決他沒有排班的話他也沒有辦法瞬間買到票比如他住台中他也不可能台北的跑去台中投票"},{"start":11101.294,"end":11124.086,"text":"我想這一部分大概...這個...至於警員部分...所以我拜託拜託齁我們正式這邊一定要趕快去統計一定要我們台灣是民主的自由法治國家齁因為這些警消的人他們沒有辦法去投票的話其實會喪失他們這個的權益啊所以這部分再一定要來檢討他們的投票權都能夠保障好謝謝"},{"start":11125.247,"end":11125.607,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":11152.677,"end":11176.362,"text":"有請我們次長,今天是吳次長來,部長今天公務請假,謝謝次長好,我想我們現在是2025就是進入那個超高齡的社會我想要來討論的一個是租屋的問題,老年人租屋的問題其實這個在我之前在新北市政府服務的時候我就一直在關注這個問題"},{"start":11177.702,"end":11196.62,"text":"因為目前我們台灣的社會對於老人租屋這一塊其實我覺得著力不深所以導致大家在年輕的時候拼命想要買房子因為老了你可能住不到房子如果沒有小朋友或小朋友沒有辦法提供給你住的地方你在外面你租房子是有困難的"},{"start":11197.381,"end":11212.365,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審"},{"start":11216.306,"end":11236.472,"text":"那當然原因有很多啦那所以說我現在想要請教的就是部長你知不知道在租屋網站上面如果房東載您租屋條件不租給45歲以上或是要求老夫妻租屋只要一人過世就要搬家請教您這個契約的約定有沒有違法"},{"start":11238.107,"end":11264.244,"text":"麻煩我是請國土署先跟...速度快一點好,國土署,謝謝那個租的部分如果違反那個我們那個定型化契約的話其實是無效的啦,這個部分那所有權人,不,那個陳租人可以主張這個他違反這個契約的相關規定不是啊,你是不是講錯了,什麼叫違反定型化契約就叫無效定型化契約就是一個法律名詞,你不能這樣亂用"},{"start":11266.24,"end":11290.86,"text":"違反它強制規定無效這一點我可以接受你剛剛可能講錯了沒關係沒關係我剛剛有一頭霧水那我現在直接跟你們講答案好了就是目前在我國契約自由原則之下除非是違反公序良俗或強制禁止的規定都是有效也就是說如果有房子不願意租給老人家這是沒有違法的"},{"start":11291.641,"end":11294.683,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":11310.813,"end":11336.329,"text":"他到最後他只能住到城市的最邊緣環境更差的地方就導致在這種地方住久了他身體可能會更不好身體能好那才是見鬼了所以我想請教一下目前對於這個社會住宅的部分因為老人還必須跟其他弱勢團體去爭這個社會住宅的排序那請問一下對於這些老人他有沒有一個不一樣的這個輪候積分的這個機制"},{"start":11340.563,"end":11368.653,"text":"目前他是我們那個住宅法社會住宅經濟經濟或社會弱勢的一個對象之一啦那這個部分的話要看各地方政府他在針對65歲以上老人有沒有特別的加分那有的部分有的部分是會把他的分數積分的評點分數是比較高我想麻煩你們演繹一下對老人是不是要不一樣的做法"},{"start":11369.173,"end":11393.565,"text":"因爲就像我剛一開始講2025年我們超高齡社會社會上面對於老人的保障是不是不足請你們在一個月內稍微研議一下在排序積分上面要不要有所改變我一直覺得啦我其實很佩服那個內政部是一個大部那我也小時候我們大家念書念過那個李運的那什麼李記的李運篇他不是有講過嗎"},{"start":11394.565,"end":11413.056,"text":"審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委"},{"start":11416.414,"end":11425.262,"text":"同時注意在保障小朋友之外還要再思考越來越多的老年人我們有沒有給他足夠的保障"},{"start":11426.462,"end":11452.244,"text":"台灣自由房屋率這麼高有一個很大原因就是大家怕老了以後沒有房子可以住我家人也都是擔心這個點所以年輕的時候拼命要買房子導致房價可能拼命往上漲這也是一個原因所以內政部是不是應該要介入老人租屋這一塊像日本一樣國家的力量介入讓房東你在租房子的時候你必須要負起一些社會責任你賺這個社會人的錢"},{"start":11454.366,"end":11469.457,"text":"那你要負起一點社會責任你不能說老人家我在租屋企業裡面就給你限制一大堆不租給老人該裁罰就裁罰該介入就介入對於社會住宅的排序也要注意一下老人年齡的保障"},{"start":11470.889,"end":11492.398,"text":"年紀大了其實有點類似越來越趨於弱勢經濟也弱勢身體狀況也不如以前也是我們要保障的我們都會老嘛那有一天我們也是需要這些所以我希望我們一起來努力這一塊好不好那一個月內能夠給我們一個那個修正做法的回覆好謝謝委員那這一部分我們會來檢討我們會把這個資料給非常謝謝"},{"start":11497.041,"end":11507.847,"text":"好謝謝吳中興委員的質詢謝謝我們第一次在內政部會見到歡迎你來謝謝也謝謝吳次長繼續我們請吳祁銘召委質詢好謝謝召委請我們內政部我們的吳次長請吳次長委員好"},{"start":11527.04,"end":11546.134,"text":"市長好,今天我們針對討論的地方制度法的修正草案那我們的縣市的席次總人口是涉算的總額那包含我們現在說關心的就是我們的平地原住民還有山地原住民他們所保障的席次"},{"start":11547.535,"end":11574.888,"text":"那憑例於原住民的議員的名額所剩的席次與非原住民的7億的議員的名額那本席今天所關心的我們原住民的席次他們的席次以及非原住民的席次的比例那未來有做調整會不會影響到我們7億的議員的席次"},{"start":11576.365,"end":11602.603,"text":"法務委員,如果是外加,不會影響。不會影響嗎?好,那不會影響,那大致上我們還是很支持我們原住民,只要是不涉及、排擠到我們會原住民的席次,那我們大致上還是樂觀其成。那本席在這邊請教我們的次長,本席過去所關心的就是我們全國的村里長,村里長,"},{"start":11603.403,"end":11629.186,"text":"他們包含在各項的災害的發生他們都在第一線包含我們過去的疫情那我們村里長他們都是真的很辛苦那我從過去的市會調升到五萬塊調升五千塊但是他們的比例還是有點嫌粗就是我們大家關心的我們公務人員都有1.5"},{"start":11630.509,"end":11650.821,"text":"一連五倍的連中獎金。那是不是次長,針對我這一次所提案的增加1.5倍的連中獎金,你的看法是如何?報告委員,我想我剛剛特別提到村議長的這一部分,的確因為他在最基層。"},{"start":11651.781,"end":11675.12,"text":"那有很多的我們的委員都相當關心村里長的這個春節慰問金或者他的事務費那是不是應該要提高那我想這個大家可以去討論因為這個涉及到不是只有說他要不要提高涉及到後面裁員的問題也是一項那另外就是說村里長的部分跟縣市議員的部分"},{"start":11676.521,"end":11689.456,"text":"是不是應該同時去討論或者分開討論?我想這個都是我們可以我們的立場就開放大家一起來討論。開放大家一起來討論?是。那以次長你的立場是支持的?"},{"start":11690.322,"end":11705.237,"text":"因為這一個村里長的事務會那時候從四萬五條到五萬那這個現在要再調那這個我想大家現在不是調是我們的年終慰問金年終要加的那個部分"},{"start":11706.238,"end":11734.74,"text":"那下一部分這個我想我們討論方向這個朝正面的方向去討論可以正面的方向嘛好那希望我們都能來推動因為村里長不管在任何包含我們這次的地震也好包含過去的疫情也好他們都站在第一線上面是挺辛苦的那我們還是會繼續來推動那也拜託我們次長這邊的支持啦還有拜託議會我們的立法委員大家都能共同來支持"},{"start":11735.481,"end":11763.639,"text":"那針對本席首先也要感謝我們那個活動中心的補助已經確定了列案在土城包含公所包含我們幾個活動中心一些修繕在我們的內政部我們的民政司這邊的補助這邊我也再次借用這個機會來感謝我們次長感謝我們的民政司我們所有工作同仁"},{"start":11764.239,"end":11764.74,"text":"案案案案"},{"start":11790.803,"end":11790.984,"text":"審查委員吳次長"},{"start":11801.087,"end":11823.122,"text":"好 次長好就是今天我們討論我們的地方制度法的一個調整那其中有一個部分其實也跟那個我們的地方的自治團體有關係就是其實我在去年就開始幫我們很多地方議員的助理來發聲"},{"start":11825.103,"end":11828.747,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":11839.585,"end":11859.259,"text":"而我們的地方議員的助理,因為這個制度,因為法令一直都沒有做調整,有長達24年都沒有辦法調新。比如說像軍公教,他每一年我們還隨著這個物價而做調整,可是呢,我們地方議員的助理是長達24年沒有調新。"},{"start":11861.781,"end":11874.765,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":11881.647,"end":11882.387,"text":"案案案案案案"},{"start":11902.532,"end":11923.29,"text":"也是一樣完全的跨黨派,他沒有黨派之爭也就是大家都意識到因為我們很多的委員包含我自己都來自於我們原來也是地方的議員那麼我們都支持對於助理24年沒有調薪對他們來講真的是不公平的"},{"start":11924.091,"end":11951.276,"text":"但是非常可惜的是我們內政部一直用各種的理由推脫甚至前不久還透過特定媒體來做放話說這是一個錢坑法案我不大能夠理解因為包括你可以看到這裡面這麼多的這個立法委員跨黨派立委這裡面比如說像吳思耀委員他還是"},{"start":11952.576,"end":11976.742,"text":"還是執政黨民進黨籍的幹部所以怎麼會說我們跨黨派的委員大家一起說來做一個乾坤法案其實我們是要去調整一個長期不合理的制度所以在這邊想請教次長當立法院裡面已經有這麼多的案子都已經提出來了那麼"},{"start":11978.582,"end":11998.776,"text":"我們內政部針對地方議員助理的調整我們的看法是什麼?報告委員,我想這一個案子大概是所有各黨各派最有共識的一個案子。大家一致同意?是。我想這一個24年沒有去調整的確有討論空間了。那至於怎麼調?"},{"start":12001.498,"end":12020.437,"text":"條的幅度有多少,條的項目怎麼調,我想這個大家必須要還有共識。可以討論嘛,可是不能因為他會增加地方的支出,也確實我們承認會增加地方支出,可是不能因為這樣子而讓這些助理都一直都不能調薪嘛,對不對?"},{"start":12021.718,"end":12023.179,"text":"法定人數、上限、調整幅度、金額"},{"start":12051.698,"end":12056.765,"text":"所以內政部可以支持是不是?我們可以來討論,因為地方有很多方案,而且項目也不一樣,那這個可以討論。好,那是最好的,我這個大概是我到現在為止,因為事實上我去年也同樣在這個地方也做質詢,當時內政部事實上是幫我打太極拳的。"},{"start":12069.542,"end":12069.682,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":12084.451,"end":12107.234,"text":"好,非常謝謝洪威的質詢,謝謝。我們請次長回去之後,把各委員提的版本,你們做一個討論看法,然後本席辦公室會請你們到我的辦公室來做一些說明,好不好?好,謝謝,謝謝洪威,謝謝。繼續我們請羅志強,羅志強,羅志強委員不在,張家俊,張家俊,張家俊委員不在。"},{"start":12107.974,"end":12127.722,"text":"鄭正前鄭正前鄭正前委員不在謝一鳳謝一鳳謝一鳳委員不在林俊憲林俊憲林俊憲委員不在沈發慧沈發慧沈發慧委員不在羅明財羅明財羅明財委員不在邱志偉邱志偉邱志偉委員不在現在請鍾嘉斌委員質詢慢慢來很喘吼"},{"start":12133.004,"end":12146.096,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席的政府局長、首長、官員、會長、公眾夥伴、媒體、技術女士先生。有請我們內政部吳次長。還有原民會的中副主委。中選會的余處長。次長好、副主委好、還有余處長好。"},{"start":12154.661,"end":12177.175,"text":"我先請問一下我們的副主委請問目前我們在選舉上常用來稱呼的三地原住民跟平地原住民是從什麼時候開始有這樣的界定的?三地原住民跟平地原住民選舉的部分在選舉的時候會有這樣的區分是從什麼時候哪裡開始有這個規定?"},{"start":12182.634,"end":12201.118,"text":"我曾經擔任國民大會代表第三屆在1996年到2000年的時候,那時候我們曾經修過憲法整修條文,有記憶了嗎?在爭俄國大之前,我們為了讓原住民族的參政權在憲法的程式當中得以保障,"},{"start":12201.798,"end":12226.654,"text":"所以是不是我們在徵修條文當中特別針對當時在終結萬年國會之後我們進行國會的全面改選有鑒於要保障原住民族的參政權所以我們在徵修條文當中有如列了三地原住民跟平地原住民的區隔並且名額分別計算有沒有是好那我們請中選會那個余處長"},{"start":12228.151,"end":12245.976,"text":"那請問我們歷來辦理這樣的一個選舉跟其他的選舉有沒有連動關聯還是在辦理立法委員選舉的時候我們就按照這個憲法正條文規定辦理還是要受到其他的地方選舉或是民意機關的改選而影響有沒有"},{"start":12247,"end":12265.276,"text":"我們就是依法來辦理。依法來辦理,這個有回答跟沒回答一樣。好,我先問一下次長啦。次長,您也是過去在地方政府服務過啦。你覺得地方政府、地方民意機關的職權和中央政府立法委員的職權是不是有所區別?"},{"start":12266.476,"end":12290.549,"text":"所以為什麼會有地方制度法跟我們正優條文對於國家憲政機關的規定是不太一樣的?是不是這樣?所以你認為我們地方政府、地方議會、地方民意機關、地方民意代表產生方式是否要完全比照憲法或正優條文當中對於中央民意機關或者是立法委員選舉方式的計數?"},{"start":12292.782,"end":12307.002,"text":"我想這個憲法程式它規範大概是立法委員部分它有規範那地方的部分就回歸到地制法的相關規定所以並沒有一定要由地制法來比照好來我們請中務主委"},{"start":12308.368,"end":12333.972,"text":"請問一下,原來你知道在當初設定3D原住民跟平地原住民的時候,有規定3D原住民一定要住在3D鄉,那平地原住民就不能住在3D鄉嗎?有沒有這個規定?並沒有這個規定。並沒有這個規定?這是以他原來居住的環境當時設定的。對,當時有他的設定。後來,原住民有固定就在那個地方不能動了嗎?遷徙自由。遷徙自由嗎?是。所以現在六都是不是有很多的原住民同胞在裡面居住?是。"},{"start":12334.452,"end":12339.666,"text":"那請問居住在六都裡面的原住民朋友他到底是山地原住民還是平地原住民?"},{"start":12340.939,"end":12368.092,"text":"在沒有選舉的時候會有區分嗎?或者坐高鐵的時候要區分買票嗎?並沒有。有沒有去登記戶籍的時候要區分來計算嗎?依目前來講,三元片大概在選舉的時候才有參選。對,而且是在選立法委員的時候,對不對?所以可不可以說,為了保障居住在我們六都或者非山地鄉的這些原住民的參政權,他的參與地方民意機關的名額的設計,"},{"start":12370.179,"end":12392.027,"text":"他不受到憲法正六條文三元跟平元的規範,有沒有這樣的要求?並沒有,不過如果提升他的參政權我們都樂觀其成。好,當然我也是認為要保障在不管居住在哪裡原住民同胞的參政權。你知道我們屏東縣,來我請一下中選會,處長。你知道目前屏東縣的縣議會有幾席嗎?目前?對。"},{"start":12398.48,"end":12413.649,"text":"五十五席五十五席,那他是因為原來在人口五十萬以上,八十萬以上是五十五席嘛,那現在屏東縣的公民人口數已經未達八十萬了,以後會剩幾席"},{"start":12414.309,"end":12416.351,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等四十三條文修正草案案。"},{"start":12434.75,"end":12461.263,"text":"但是我發現過去我們在地制法的設計的時候有一點有一點過頭的去沿用了憲法正確條文當中對於原住民行使中央民意機關參政權的三元跟平原的規定也在六都當中的人口居住人口當中去創設了三元跟平原而且呢只有針對平原的部分以名額的特殊規定的計算三元並沒有"},{"start":12461.883,"end":12471.79,"text":"那我要說的啦,三元跟平元本來就存在於立法委員的選舉。地方民意機關不管你是都還是非都,並沒有這樣的區分,是不是?"},{"start":12473.373,"end":12497.113,"text":"我們有這樣的區分嗎?我剛剛就問過了嘛。難道說你在投立法委的時候在山原、在平原,會限制你住在都還是非都?住在山地下還是非山地下?有沒有?這部分是沒有。沒有嘛。所以為了充分保障每一個都或非都地方政府的自治,應該以當地人口當中,我們就區分成原住民族跟非原住民族,來保障原住民族的席次計算,你認為這樣適不妥適?"},{"start":12501.365,"end":12505.561,"text":"無好回答還是這是你們希望我們本會解決的本願解決的"},{"start":12508.682,"end":12532.5,"text":"現在大家還沒有討論說我們到底要不要跟他併在一起對,所以我是問嘛,你的意向嘛,可能你們不便回答我認為在目前的版本當中,有的版本呢,還沒有去思考到其實保障原住民同胞的參政權在都與非都,在地方議會的選舉當中,其實是沒有做區分分別計算的必要"},{"start":12533.53,"end":12536.938,"text":"但是同此時間因為它的額數的計算會牽動到地制法當中對於該縣市"},{"start":12543.313,"end":12567.868,"text":"議會名額計算,以屏東縣為例,你八十萬是包含已記錄原住民同胞選民為主,從八十萬到不到八十萬就差了十二席。但是如果我們把原住民族的參政權把它區分開來,我們把屏東縣的八十萬不到八十萬人口七十八萬區分成原住民跟非原住民,那這樣算起來,屏東縣的非原住民的議會席是可以幾席?"},{"start":12570.506,"end":12586.126,"text":"有沒有大概出算過?我聽說大概只有少了五席,大概是49席到50席,大概是不是這樣?對,如果假設是,這跟他外交一樣,他會少五席又會換掉。因為目前各版本有外交有內涵,不是只有影響到原住民族選民的參選權利,"},{"start":12587.441,"end":12613.474,"text":"也影響到非原住民同樣居住在同一縣市的其他選民參與參選的席次的計算元額,是不是這樣?所以我在這裡本席謝謝主席給本席這樣的時間我希望我們未來在討論地制法這個議題的時候我強烈的支持保障我們原住民朋友在地方政府、地方議會的參政權包括他的席次名額應該單獨計算"},{"start":12615.655,"end":12640.61,"text":"但是沒有受到憲法徵效文三元跟平元的這個區分的必要。第二,在計算名額的同時,也要兼顧到該縣市居住的非原住民人口在計算之下預期的消長的變化,為妥善的規劃。請問這樣的內容,市長你可以承諾給我們一個射算的結果嗎?我們會把射算的結果提出來。這個很快,我們..."},{"start":12643.786,"end":12661.36,"text":"一天兩天還是下個星期我們下個星期就可以好那我就跟拜託主席做個裁示希望內政部盡快的把這樣的設算的一個可能的方向給我們本院也提供一個本委員會來參考以作為後續各個版本修法的時候的參酌可以嗎"},{"start":12663.357,"end":12685.58,"text":"因為委員還有其他沒有提這樣的版本那今天我們修的版本就是由高金素的委員但是我們今天就要排審我的版本還有鄭天財委員一定徵兇條文這五立法委員但是你剛剛說的是平原三原這個部分因為我們今天是只有三原的部分好不好"},{"start":12686.721,"end":12688.902,"text":"楊瓊英、楊瓊英、楊瓊英委員不在、洪孟凱、孟凱、洪孟凱委員不在"},{"start":12703.248,"end":12719.716,"text":"丁學忠、丁學忠、丁學忠委員不在。我們登記發言的委員除了不在場者之外,其餘的都已經發言完畢,我們詢答結束。委員莊瑞雄、丁學忠所提的書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。"},{"start":12721.096,"end":12722.757,"text":"書面質詢及未及答覆請相關單位在一週之內以書面答覆並複製本會。"},{"start":12752.378,"end":12770.503,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":12783.477,"end":12808.005,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委員"},{"start":12820.065,"end":12821.207,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13164.738,"end":13185.094,"text":"報告委員會我們現在進行法案的審查請宣讀討論事項所有條文還有修正動議但是我必須要先在這邊請問一下吳立華委員因為您是修正動議進來的您是以哪一個版本為修正的這個條文因為我們請議事委員解釋一下請議事委員解釋一下"},{"start":13191.192,"end":13202.044,"text":"那跟各位我們報告齁因為我們現在目前齁那個目前的排案是有有那個高金素梅委員還有鄭天財委員還有那個"},{"start":13204.953,"end":13226.7,"text":"陳一貞委員賴士葆提案。五立法委員的修正動議只針對第三十三條。第三十三條因為交付下來就只有高金素梅委員還有鄭天財委員的版本。因為你是修正動議,沒有在委員會裡面?對,沒有交付到委員會。那你是要有一個主委員,你是要修正誰的?"},{"start":13234.215,"end":13234.235,"text":"鄭天財"},{"start":13239.847,"end":13266.164,"text":"不好意思吳立華委員,你的文字其實跟我的比較像,而且你條文跟橡木都比較像,對啊,對不對,還是我的啦,不然的話,對對對,謝謝,因為你跟鄭天財文版本就木跟橡都不太一樣,好不好,好,謝謝。好,我們就吳立華委員是針對高金素梅委員的版本進行修正動議,然後我們一起宣讀,宣讀完畢後我們進行協商,謝謝。"},{"start":13269.212,"end":13292.749,"text":"委員賴士葆等20人提案修正第七條之一將第一項修正為內政部基於全國國土合理規劃及區域均衡發展之需要擬將縣市改制或與其他直轄市縣市合併改制為直轄市者應擬定改制計劃並徵得各該直轄市政府縣市政府及各該直轄市議會縣市議會之同意後報請行政院核定之其與同縣行條文"},{"start":13293.61,"end":13316.356,"text":"委員陳玉珍等18人提案,增訂第七條之四。第七條之四,依《中華民國憲法增修條文》第十條第十二項後段對於澎湖、金門及馬祖地區人民之保障規定,應制定《離島基本法》為特別保障規定。前項《離島基本法》未完成立法前,如有涉及離島人民之權益事項,行政院須訂定規制《離島人民之特別保障法規》命令。"},{"start":13317.136,"end":13332.233,"text":"第三十三條委員高金素梅等21人提案將第二項第二款第二目修正為二、由山地鄉之縣市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者或中華民國111年11月26日有平地原住民選出之議員名額者"},{"start":13333.895,"end":13355.332,"text":"應有平地原住民選出之縣市議員名額,有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應有山地原住民選出之縣議員名額,市及無山地鄉之縣有原住民人口在1500人以上者應有原住民選出之議員名額。增訂第二項第二款第三目。三、有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者應有該鄉選出之縣議員名額。"},{"start":13358.755,"end":13384.572,"text":"將第二項第三款第二幕修正為二、山地鄉以外之鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額。第六項修正為直轄市及有山地鄉之縣市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者名增加4人增一人市及無山地鄉之縣選出之原住民名額在4人以上者"},{"start":13385.052,"end":13412.432,"text":"應有婦女當選名額,超過四人者每增加四人增一人。三地鄉以外之鄉鎮市選出之平地原住民名額在四人以上者應有婦女當選名額,超過四人者每增加四人增一人。其餘同縣型條文委員鄭天財等17人提案將第二項第二款第二目修正為二、縣市有平地原住民人口在一千五百人以上者應有平地原住民選出之縣市之縣原住民"},{"start":13413.633,"end":13426.188,"text":"應有平地原住民選出之縣市議員名額有山地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有山地原住民選出之縣議員名額有山地鄉者應有山地原住民選出之縣議員名額有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者應有該鄉選出之縣議員名額"},{"start":13430.894,"end":13451.472,"text":"將第二項第三款第二目修正為二、鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額。三、地鄉以外之鄉鎮市有鄉地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有鄉地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額。其餘同現行條文。修正動議"},{"start":13458.274,"end":13482.992,"text":"第三十三條修正動議,將第二項第二款第二目修正為二,縣市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之一元名額,有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應分別有山地原住民選出之一元名額。增訂第二項第二款第三目,內容同委員高金素梅等21人提案。"},{"start":13484.907,"end":13513.425,"text":"將第二項第三款第二目修正為二、鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之代表名額有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應分別有山地原住民選出之代表名額將第六項修正為直轄市縣市以及鄉鎮市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額分別有4人以上者應分別有父母當選名額超過4人者名增加4人增一人其餘同縣級條文"},{"start":13515.555,"end":13518.501,"text":"提案人委員蘇巧慧等5人"},{"start":13526.918,"end":13553.152,"text":"我們現在進行協商因為剛剛在休息的時候昭偉我有跟國民黨團有跟民進黨團也有跟內政部我們討論了就針對高金素梅委員還有鄭天財等提案修正第33條我們先來處理因為大家比較沒有意見好不好那大家看一下"},{"start":13554.844,"end":13556.647,"text":"我的第三十三條"},{"start":13560.619,"end":13580.574,"text":"第二項、第二款、第二幕、我增訂的是第三幕、第二項、第三款、第二幕、還有第六項的部分,大家參考一下文字。事實上我剛剛在質詢的時候說明了,其實我們會增加的席次大概只有四席而已,而且是外加的部分。對於現在的區域的議員的席次並不會影響到。"},{"start":13586.358,"end":13604.603,"text":"因吳立華的修正版本也是這樣子,事實上鄭天財委員的文字跟我也是大致相同,所以剛剛討論的結果就由高金委員的修正版本通過,是不是可以這樣子?"},{"start":13609.863,"end":13615.586,"text":"你剛才說的那個問題,我是剛才有跟政治家所討論的,關於家裏的問題,我認為要多去協助一下,因為我認為不要發聲之後跟其他人這樣,因為"},{"start":13630.215,"end":13639.164,"text":"雖然主席說可能應用到4個月,但我說的這件事可能有用看用,不一定應用到2、3個月。所以在這裏我也願意去協商選政治對這個問題,因為"},{"start":13653.22,"end":13658.342,"text":"審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草"},{"start":13676.175,"end":13681.939,"text":"委員高金素梅等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員"},{"start":13696.388,"end":13704.832,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草"},{"start":13724.562,"end":13726.023,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":13744.952,"end":13746.612,"text":"第三目的有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者應有該鄉選出的縣議員名額"},{"start":13771.4,"end":13771.42,"text":"有離島"},{"start":13778.615,"end":13798.705,"text":"有離島鄉?對啊,離島其實就是綠島啊。那是離島鄉,那如果不是離島鄉呢?一般的鄉,一般的鄉呢?我說金門本身是離島,他沒有離島鄉啦,他就是離島鄉。那他如果有山地園居民有1500名以上,有1500位山園啦吼,那也會多一名,也會多一個,也會多一位議員啦吼。"},{"start":13802.847,"end":13806.951,"text":"案。三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案案案案。"},{"start":13819.001,"end":13842.875,"text":"對,都是外加不會影響到區域的議員我們剛剛一直在提醒的是,那這樣子原來這個本來是因為原來最原始在上面有一個是19名那個以金門來講他有人數嘛議員的人數是多少人多少人人口在20萬以下不得超過19人那這個部分外加這個部分是要同步修正嗎還是怎樣"},{"start":13843.675,"end":13850.621,"text":"因為如果像我們基本現在議員是19名嘛那如果有一天我們有3地議員就有1500人或平均也有那都不在你們區域的議員的這個名額裡面"},{"start":13854.116,"end":13863.724,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":13887.039,"end":13887.82,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13899.264,"end":13925.103,"text":"請問在場委員還有什麼意見?如果沒有意見的話,吳麗華委員謝謝主席我這邊先釐清一個部分因為那個版本其實文字我都沒有意見只要能夠送出那這邊請教一下那個高金主席就是在你的版本的"},{"start":13925.964,"end":13951.634,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭"},{"start":13952.233,"end":13953.715,"text":"的縣有原住民人口。"},{"start":13970.652,"end":13997.064,"text":"我只是要確認那個地方我把文字把它寫得更細一點那文字我就內政部的版本或高金委員的版本我都沒有內政部的版本只有我的版本謝謝吳俊華委員沒有他的建議的啦那我就不堅持完全按照我的文字但是我只是要表達我的修法效果就是兩個堅持第一個就是讓縣市及鄉鎮是"},{"start":14000.466,"end":14009.011,"text":"案。三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":14022.58,"end":14045.549,"text":"那其實大家都表示意見了啦,那我們是不是就照高金委員,照為你的版本,然後我們就協商,因為大家好像有很多要協商,好不好?你是說這條還要協商嗎?還是這條我們就讓他就按照我的版本通過?按照你的版本通過啦。好,謝謝謝謝。我是建議是大家都很多意見是不是也要協商一下。"},{"start":14047.02,"end":14047.581,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":14063.392,"end":14083.652,"text":"我是說他們剛剛都有很多的問題那我講一下我的想法因為其實我也蠻認同高金委員的版本只是說因為就是部到現在都沒有任何的其實他們都還沒有發表意見然後也都沒有自己的版本我想說是不是就是我們這邊討論出一個共識然後還是送黨團協商這樣子"},{"start":14085.794,"end":14085.914,"text":"二、審查委員"},{"start":14098.902,"end":14120.917,"text":"好,這樣子好了齁,我覺得我們就不要花在場大家的時間,我也沒有特別一定要去這個這個,因為其實事實上表決齁,如果貴黨團在裡面也沒意思,所以我今天就不用表決了齁,那既然民進黨的委員們有這個意見,我們就朝野協商好了好不好,就按照我的版本在朝野協商,這樣可以嗎?"},{"start":14126.067,"end":14129.771,"text":"按照高金委員提案通過但是交由朝野協商"},{"start":14132.438,"end":14134.039,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":14157.709,"end":14158.549,"text":"案案案案案"},{"start":14174.273,"end":14192.509,"text":"請說明一下我剛剛漏掉一下因為我要確認一下因為我有處理那個鄉民代表的問題市民代表的問題那個有沒有版本還是不討論目前在我的條文裡面是沒有市民代表的鄉民代表市民代表沒有鄉民代表"},{"start":14196.96,"end":14198.181,"text":"我們請內政部來做一些說明"},{"start":14231.618,"end":14234.545,"text":"主席,抱歉,這條案我們無來心事,"},{"start":14239.716,"end":14245.439,"text":"每位委員提案委員自己的案子有沒有比較的在乎跟重視我們請國民黨團請賴士保委員如果在的話"},{"start":14265.611,"end":14292.751,"text":"我們現在先討論這個下一個第七條之四好不好我們針對委員陳玉珍等提案尊敬第七條之四我們來討論來我們請這個內政部還有相關單位是不是就說明一下我們請這個官員來說明一下好不好來請次長謝謝次長我們到那個位置上好了好不好謝謝謝謝你"},{"start":14299.366,"end":14319.416,"text":"好,我想針對那個陳醫生委員提案這個離島金門法的這一部分我們是認為說這個目前金門的暫地任務的限制已經解除了嘛,已經沒有再做限制所以現在金門這個地方,金馬這個地方的這個"},{"start":14321.237,"end":14346.453,"text":"這個地方自治的這些事項其實跟居民政治參與其實跟本島都一樣所以我們是真的沒有必要再去修地質法或是訂基本法這是第一個那第二個就是說我剛剛有特別有提到就是基本法我們現在大概有10部的基本法但是對都是對特別的身份特殊身份的這個保障所以我們訂了基本法而且基本法它是一個概念式的這個立法"},{"start":14347.153,"end":14369.749,"text":"你列這個基本法他還是要一定相關的執法來做那現在我們應該去檢視一下說離島建設條例到底有沒有辦法完全去照顧到這個離島這邊那如果假設不足的那是不是我們來修這個離島的建設條例但我們的立場是這樣子所以我們認為說現在沒有必要再去訂立一個基本法了"},{"start":14372.028,"end":14396.577,"text":"謝謝市長我想跟各位委員說明就是這個不是針對金門啦針對離島當然澎湖金門馬祖那其他離島包括比如說屏東也有一些離島或是琉球啊什麼這一類對相關的這個離島那現在大家知道像我們剛剛在省原住民也有基本法客委會啊什麼都很多都有基本法那我們現在就如果穿著衣服改衣服非常的辛苦就是您說的這個離島建設條例他大概都是注重在經濟發展方向"},{"start":14398.038,"end":14398.178,"text":"三、審查委員"},{"start":14414.045,"end":14441.582,"text":"後面還是需要各個單位很多的協助有這個法案依據以後有一個這樣釋出有名以後接著我們金門各界其實不只金門金門、馬祖、澎湖各界事實上都有一個聯合會有提出說要這樣建立這樣的這個基本法的這個對離島居民的整體一個怎麼樣的一個這種權益的這個一個框架要定起來所以今天這只是給一個法案依據事實上也不會影響到內政部也不是說要多給什麼權力就給我們一個框架讓我們可以"},{"start":14442.462,"end":14456.452,"text":"在對離島的各項建設、不管是社會福利、衛生各方面有一個基準不是要他定法律不是要你現在去定一個法律定這個框架給你一個法源依據然後下去當然各個方面就是不足嘛"},{"start":14470.111,"end":14492.98,"text":"是你還是要有配套的話沒錯沒錯所以這個訂了以後後續我們還會再推動很多相關離島的相關法這一定會的這是我後續還會再努力的雖然我也再提出來那一個基本的我想大家也很重視離島嘛在場的各位也不會對離島不重視嘛像原住民還有基本法一樣我們離島的請求也是這樣子"},{"start":14494.062,"end":14517.834,"text":"所以我剛剛特別提到就是說現在基本法大家都針對深恨白來做這個立法嘛我知道我知道但是在憲法的保障裡頭我們離島居民跟原住民事實上應該要有同等維修我知道大家都很重視原住民我也非常的羨慕啊那離島的居民事實上也是希望至少只要求一部對於我們離島的這樣的法令的一個框架這個不是我個人提出來的這包括"},{"start":14518.474,"end":14544.016,"text":"三個縣市政府都有提出來,共同在我們的理導會議裡頭提出來的。你也知道,次長也知道,不管金門縣州、連江還有澎湖都有提出來。主席。主席。我們先請張宏祿委員,他有舉手,再來就是美會委員,謝謝。不好意思啦,那個張委,跟陳委員,你的說法我也很認同,很支持,可是我必須要跟各位委員報告一下,"},{"start":14545.257,"end":14559.478,"text":"你那個要我們要做我們不用修地制法我們就可以去做了離島條例或什麼也都可以做那我必須要在這邊跟陳委員報告一下我們不用這樣子啦你去提離島建筑或什麼我們大家來支持你這樣比較快"},{"start":14560.78,"end":14561.441,"text":"案案案案案案"},{"start":14590.083,"end":14602.868,"text":"案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員高金素梅等21人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具：一、�"},{"start":14611.757,"end":14627.849,"text":"那個不好意思我再說一下我再一句話就好了陳委員你說的我真的都支持但我所有內政委員會的同仁我必須要說一下我們內政委員會我們修改任何條文其實外界也在檢視我們"},{"start":14629.19,"end":14654.855,"text":"那我們徵修這個雖然是弄一個框架但如果外界說這根本不需要增加在這個條文裡面那我們把它增加一下那我們外界對我們內政委員會在修法在什麼我們有沒有嚴謹有沒有真的做到這個我希望就是說我提出這個觀點那大家好考慮一下那我是完全支持你的我不是說不要我從別的法制直接做好我們請美會委員"},{"start":14657.662,"end":14680.733,"text":"主席,剛才馮木說的大同小異,我的意思就是說,我們不用在地方制度法裡面,你去審查這裡,說實在,你的情緒、你的什麼,你去再整修會比這個還好啦,你是怎麼要堅持,再來,我一路次長,我要請教說,"},{"start":14682.034,"end":14688.157,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員高金素梅等21人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":14709.386,"end":14729.75,"text":"他還是有配到的法令那現在好假設我們現在沒有基本法我們有建設這個條例你按照建設條例去修你如果覺得建設條例照顧不足的那我們去修這個不是就好了嗎你需要弄一個框架在那裡嗎像您剛說現在的什麼基本法都只有按照什麼身分別原住民基本法客家委員這個客委會這個這不是事實那政府為了表示對文化的重視訂了文化基本法"},{"start":14735.271,"end":14757.836,"text":"對社會福利重視定了社會福利基本法、客家基本法是身份、科學技術基本法、原住民基本法是身份、海洋基本法、教育基本法、通訊傳播基本法。這是一個代表你對這個議題有沒有重視嗎?那我想離島的居民雖然是人數比較少的確可能也比原住民少一點"},{"start":14759.721,"end":14783.095,"text":"也要支持所以所以嘴巴上說製作行動上我們在立法上也要支持啊好好謝謝我們請問一下還有沒有其他的委員要發言來環節委員不好意思剛沒看到我兩個小意見啦就是說我在想說這個離島基本法其實他們目前具體施行的內容是不是在離島建設條例就可以處理那有沒有目前"},{"start":14783.875,"end":14808.923,"text":"李導建設條例不足或者是沒有辦法處理的這個可以的話大家再討論一下嘛就是說如果到底哪裡不足我們需要一個法院去授權讓他開啟這個工具的大門那我覺得就有必要修這個是要討論的再來就是說如果要訂的話是不是要邀請李導的議員也都來發表一下意見阿對阿我覺得要的話就是送協商然後請其他李導的議員大家都一起來討論一下"},{"start":14810.603,"end":14836.972,"text":"好,我們請劉學廷委員就說離島的委員也都應該要來發表一下這個,其實哦,裕貞委員提這個法案他當然用意當然就希望離島建設權益可以再升級啦那如果離島基本法它如果修正上面有積極意義的時候行政院趕快提出相關的版本其實才是正本清源之道嘛好,那既然今天大家在這邊爭論不休我們是不是就先送協商那你行政院趕快提版本進來的時候這個地方這一段我們就不處理了嘛"},{"start":14840.978,"end":14847.43,"text":"相對來講也不用動到地制法修正我覺得這樣才是解決事情的方法所以我覺得我們今天就把它送協商啦然後這樣也不耽誤大家會議時間以上謝謝"},{"start":14849.493,"end":14872.71,"text":"好,我們請喬輝委員。呃,牛委員的意見乍聽之下,我覺得蠻有道理,就是一個催促有基本法這樣的概念,要不要有嗎?好,可是,這個,他還是要回到原始的問題啊,就是在地方制度法裡面加一條說要訂一個離島基本法,這件事情到底合不合理?在地方制度法當中放一個這樣的條文說要"},{"start":14874.631,"end":14876.153,"text":"定另外一個基本法。」"},{"start":14894.693,"end":14919.838,"text":"那要不要有基本法當然可以討論要增加我也好啊增加也很好但我還是覺得在地方制度法加這條不太對勁啊所以我覺得這是兩件事情大家都口頭上說支持但我們要的是長治久安的制度比如說今天是這個委員當了或是明天是這個委員比如說我們蘇小慧委員特別支持金門特別跟我們支持那我要建立的是制度"},{"start":14920.538,"end":14921.258,"text":"審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":14940.031,"end":14940.351,"text":"審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":14962.185,"end":14986.704,"text":"那你在地方制度法裡面在中間我們是給他一個條來說我要有一個離島的基本法我們是給一個法源依據啊剛剛像那個劉雪茵委員說的那內政部門就趕快提出來內政部都一直不提出來啊我們要趕快推出他前進啊你要不要考慮一下用其他的方法來推出他我可以支持用什麼方法來推出他好我們休息五分鐘以下來來來我們休息五分鐘來"},{"start":14989.75,"end":14999.435,"text":"審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":15013.441,"end":15021.447,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":15038.648,"end":15045.513,"text":"不需要行政院的版本,你如果提的話,我們在司法或在內政在幫你排版"},{"start":15057.663,"end":15069.454,"text":"原住民的學校法就是一樣這樣,原住民從來沒有版本過,但是我們提了版本之後,只要在委員會裡面被判案就要逼著他們出來。"},{"start":15084.326,"end":15099.675,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":15101.156,"end":15102.237,"text":"當初你們都同意過了勒"},{"start":15126.227,"end":15153.829,"text":"現在重提而已捏,提過了捏,這案子提過了,這上次都送到委會了,送出了,不要啊,這要等到民國期啊,第七屆都有過,第十屆,那個第十,第十屆,上一陣子已經解,第十屆你也在這個內政會,在內政會,這個都送出去委會,不是沒送出去過啊,這個委會都,有啦,有啦,第十"},{"start":15156.008,"end":15178.784,"text":"第十屆第七會期送出去委員會在草野協商沒有排到而已啊。你自己,我不知道你是不是沒有牌照,那第七會期啦。議長,我剛剛已經幫你們試圖協商了齁,那如果是你還是有意見的話,就草野他們說要表決啦。表決你們是什麼?我不要表決啊,就送出去啊。可是召委的意思是說,大家直接都有限嗎?有啦!阿脈啦,第七屆就都接罷了啦!"},{"start":15184.908,"end":15194.535,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":15204.303,"end":15217.3,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":15220.243,"end":15247.46,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、"},{"start":15249.561,"end":15264.125,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":15265.285,"end":15281.251,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案件。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案件。"},{"start":15286.805,"end":15310.888,"text":"現在已經是12點46分了因為我想說在這邊我們就不要再讓大家在這邊爭執這個部分我們請內政部這個次長您來回應一下因為就剛剛幾個委員一直這個試圖來協調協商這個部分因為基本法是高於這個地制法所以是不是您來表態一下好謝謝"},{"start":15312.209,"end":15335.182,"text":"報告各位我們的態度就認為說現在從離島建設條例去著手來修訂如果不足就修訂這個特別這個建設條例就OK了沒有必要說馬上去訂這個基本法但是如果委員你們的決議任何需要訂的我們尊重我們沒有我們尊重你們的意見但是我們的立場我們要表達就是因為你們覺得"},{"start":15336.544,"end":15337.105,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":15349.148,"end":15376.03,"text":"對,就是一樣,我沒有改變我沒有改變我沒有改變我就是原文再提一次而已這是上次有討論過的送出去過的上個會期的那時候我也在內政啦我也在內政兩年嘛所以這個那時候我們有送出去所以並不是沒有送出去過委員會啊不知道為什麼新的會期大家當然有一些想法但舊的很多委員都還是原來的委員啊張委員、吳委員跟王委員都還是原來的委員啊我們還是在內政委會啊"},{"start":15377.649,"end":15405.803,"text":"就是你們這個會期改變的想法但是上個會期第七會期的確有在內政會就送出去在草野協商的時候因為屆期不連續所以我才重提出來那上個會期都可以送出去這個會期有什麼也沒什麼重大的情勢變更而且所有的這個離島縣市政府你們也可以去問一下離島的縣市政府你們因為你們有執政縣市叫做澎湖縣澎湖縣是貴黨執政的你們也去問一下澎湖是不是支持你們去問一下澎湖縣政府這個澎湖縣政府也是支持的"},{"start":15408.548,"end":15416.434,"text":"這又是我提的所以你們去問一下澎湖縣政府支不支持嗎陳光復你們問他支不支持這不是只有我支持的案子不分黨派的"},{"start":15417.742,"end":15419.404,"text":"彭茂是民進黨執政也是支持啊。"},{"start":15440.585,"end":15446.467,"text":"我們這個案子不是沒有審過嗎?等一下我覺得在這種狀況下尤其陳委員已經做這樣的發言那這樣的表決我覺得相當的不合我們的意志因為我都可以意見我們"},{"start":15466.753,"end":15491.395,"text":"全益支持離島的全益。但剛剛也表示了基於法制的想法觀念的表達我們認為在地方制度法的這一個條文成為另訂其他基本法法源這個在法制上面有焊隔之處所以我表達我的想法這是法制上面的"},{"start":15492.196,"end":15492.656,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":15510.931,"end":15513.191,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案件。"},{"start":15535.916,"end":15555.793,"text":"如果法務部相關單位表示在地方制度法的這第七條可以作為陳委員版本成為其他基本法的法人沒有意見那本席有可以支持因為重視領導權益一向是我的主張所以重視法務部非常謝謝我們周圍按一下好不好"},{"start":15560.337,"end":15560.577,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":15577.515,"end":15578.896,"text":"案。二、審查委員陈玉珍委員"},{"start":15600.57,"end":15604.655,"text":"事由：立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員高金素梅等21人擬具"},{"start":15616.346,"end":15633.649,"text":"我們在一點以前要處理這個案子法務部這個官員回答結束之後我們就休息兩分鐘然後我們討論一下好不好謝謝請法務部的代表來做說明請你到台上來好不好謝謝"},{"start":15647.704,"end":15673.971,"text":"主席各位委員好那就這個條文來看我們那個地制法它的授權依據是說憲法118條還有憲法徵修條文第9條那我們憲法第118條它是說直轄式的自治事項用法律定制那我們118條也說是自治條例的這些不受這些的規定這個各個委員應該都非常清楚那我們現在地制法要解決問題如同剛剛委員提到的"},{"start":15675.791,"end":15703.4,"text":"我們很多基本法比如說剛剛提到原住民族基本法文化基本法、客家基本法它本身都是直接訂定它也沒有用一個特別的法律來授權那委員如果說要訂一個基本法的話畢竟這個都是看行政機關的權責或是委員的權責你自己可以提出法案來做討論所以這個都沒有問題的只是說是不是在地制法案一個條文"},{"start":15704.48,"end":15726.532,"text":"你有沒有看我提的法案的第二項?我是有看到您...第二項寫什麼?看一下第二項,念一下第二項你可不可以先法務部的意見先表述完整,然後回答陳玉珍?對,對,他表述了,我請問他有沒有看到第二項?等一下啦,先讓他都說完了啦,好不好?剛好主席說嘛,所以就主席寫了"},{"start":15727.956,"end":15749.107,"text":"委員長剛剛我們內政部的長官有提到說現在有一個離島建設條例那到底離島建設條例裡面的條文真的有不足的地方我們剛剛的長官也提到說離島建設條例他可以提出來做修正那是不是如同剛剛也提到如果弄一個基本法"},{"start":15749.907,"end":15774.637,"text":"他只是一個大的概念那如果真正的要落實執行還是要各個法律譬如說離島建設條例或是其他的法規來配合那現在呢基本法要不要定跟離島建設其實可以雙軌啦那到底在地制法裡面可不可以訂定這個條文我也不能說對或不對因為我們憲法裡面的規我們的地制法第一條的依據的這麼樣的明顯但是你說在這裡落一個其他的法律"},{"start":15780.445,"end":15803.942,"text":"我來說一下對不起我們剛剛請關我主席剛剛有說了我們一點以前我們要處理這個案子您剛剛好像說的這個又模模糊糊的這樣子好了因為今天我們花很多時間在這個討論上面這個議案的討論上面包括賴士葆委員都是第七條能不能這樣子主席做一下的才是就是討論事項第一第二"},{"start":15804.542,"end":15825.624,"text":"然後我們並按審查完均擬具審查報告提報院會討論請問在場委員可以有沒有意見吧沒有意見地方制度法第33條的條文修正草案以並按審查完均然後擬具審查報告提報院會討論請在場委員我們是不是"},{"start":15832.249,"end":15854.624,"text":"須經黨團協商,由本席高金素梅做補充說明,然後討論事項第三、第四案我們所列的議案,也就是賴士葆委員的地方制度法第七條之一條文的修正草案,以及陳玉珍委員等18人擬具地方制度法增訂第七條、第四條文的草案,我們另外議案並且審查。"},{"start":15857.246,"end":15863.892,"text":"主席賴士葆沒有來我有來耶賴士葆沒有來我有來因為你們都是第七條好不好我們謝謝議程處的外備我們現在散會謝謝議政會議員我們花很多時間在討論你們問題好不好謝謝"},{"start":15880.466,"end":15906.738,"text":"議爭委員我們沒有不支持你這樣子第一次你這樣子你這樣子議爭委員我不接受你這樣的指控您剛剛說你沒有申報書讓我先處理第三十三條我也同意你然後我說我們的定期例外審查我們定期例外審查我們並沒有不審查你的案子我另外再談好不好"},{"start":15907.598,"end":15933.305,"text":"我們略外在談案,我沒有說不處理你的案子。在我略外審查的同時,麻煩你再去跟我們內政部還有你們的黨團還有民進黨的委員們來討論,好嗎?謝謝,謝謝,謝謝。你們其他委員也有不同的意見啦,不好意思,郁正委員。所以我就說你們繼續討論我另案審查,請你不要誤會,請你不要亂指控張偉。"},{"start":15934.725,"end":15943.088,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具"},{"start":15956.758,"end":15970.281,"text":"我要立案審查,謝謝。在立案審查的同時希望民進黨團、內政部還有國發會還有國民黨團能夠充分的在討論好不好,謝謝。做一套做一套啊,我也贊成表決啊。他們表決,如果他們贏就贏嘛,沒關係啊。不能說做一套做一套啊。原罪名案子我從來沒有反對過,一向都很支持。"},{"start":15996.456,"end":16001.106,"text":"審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"}]}},{"id":"15826","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15826","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd0a0e131ea932df62ea5b031af9c32cfd3be8d109af184be4a3e1c53ee1ef720e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:30:44+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:55:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":15856,"委員發言時間":"08:30:44 - 12:55:00","影片長度":"04:24:16","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1763.92409375,"end":1765.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1765.86471875,"end":1766.6747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1767.5184687500002,"end":1770.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1772.4290937500002,"end":1773.6609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1774.9940937500003,"end":1775.8040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1776.2428437500002,"end":1777.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1779.0609687500003,"end":1782.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1784.6634687500002,"end":1787.9203437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1790.5190937500001,"end":1792.9828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1793.2697187500003,"end":1794.9234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1799.0072187500002,"end":1799.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1800.1209687500002,"end":1801.4203437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1804.00221875,"end":1806.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1809.31784375,"end":1812.9628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1816.5740937500002,"end":1818.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1820.4722187500001,"end":1822.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1824.8428437500002,"end":1826.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1828.8422187500003,"end":1830.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1832.5040937500003,"end":1834.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1836.0984687500002,"end":1837.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1838.29221875,"end":1838.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1842.5447187500001,"end":1843.8947187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1845.5315937500002,"end":1847.5565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1848.7547187500002,"end":1850.7459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1853.5978437500003,"end":1855.2853437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1858.2890937500001,"end":1861.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1863.8240937500002,"end":1867.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1870.2703437500002,"end":1873.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1874.1178437500002,"end":1877.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1881.1547187500003,"end":1884.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1887.09471875,"end":1887.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1888.8665937500002,"end":1891.5665937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1894.1990937500002,"end":1895.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1900.17284375,"end":1901.3540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1901.8265937500003,"end":1905.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1905.5897187500002,"end":1907.4290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1907.78346875,"end":1909.9603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1910.6015937500001,"end":1911.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1911.2259687500002,"end":1915.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1915.9847187500002,"end":1921.9415937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1923.1903437500002,"end":1925.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1928.3709687500002,"end":1929.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1929.99096875,"end":1931.8809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1937.6015937500001,"end":1956.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1956.2653437500003,"end":1961.5809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1961.8509687500002,"end":1964.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1964.6859687500003,"end":1968.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1968.5672187500002,"end":1977.8822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1978.1522187500002,"end":1982.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1982.3709687500002,"end":1984.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1984.96971875,"end":1986.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1986.7415937500002,"end":1988.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1990.03221875,"end":1996.4447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1996.9678437500002,"end":2004.4603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2004.7809687500003,"end":2008.6622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2008.8478437500003,"end":2011.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2011.9528437500003,"end":2025.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2026.0772187500002,"end":2029.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2030.3634687500003,"end":2036.1347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2036.5734687500003,"end":2037.0628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2037.8222187500003,"end":2047.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2048.45346875,"end":2050.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2051.03534375,"end":2051.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2052.0478437500005,"end":2052.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2053.2459687500004,"end":2054.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2054.5790937500005,"end":2057.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2057.80221875,"end":2060.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2061.24471875,"end":2065.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2067.1678437500004,"end":2073.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2073.93471875,"end":2084.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2084.5322187500005,"end":2090.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2090.52284375,"end":2091.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2092.2440937500005,"end":2106.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2107.0603437500004,"end":2109.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2110.58721875,"end":2121.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2122.11284375,"end":2128.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2128.77846875,"end":2142.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2142.83534375,"end":2147.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2150.4122187500006,"end":2157.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2157.97221875,"end":2159.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2159.9803437500004,"end":2161.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2162.10659375,"end":2203.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2204.61471875,"end":2243.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2243.61284375,"end":2245.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2245.65471875,"end":2259.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2260.2178437500006,"end":2269.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2270.6803437500002,"end":2275.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2275.5065937500003,"end":2276.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2277.46409375,"end":2286.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2286.8972187500003,"end":2305.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2305.42596875,"end":2319.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2319.88784375,"end":2347.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2348.10284375,"end":2357.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2357.80596875,"end":2381.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2381.97096875,"end":2384.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2384.82284375,"end":2397.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2397.83346875,"end":2401.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2401.81596875,"end":2416.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2417.00346875,"end":2417.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2417.0878437500005,"end":2419.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2419.8553437500004,"end":2420.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2421.22221875,"end":2421.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2421.8972187500003,"end":2422.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2423.14596875,"end":2423.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2424.17534375,"end":2425.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2425.20471875,"end":2426.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2426.8584687500006,"end":2427.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2428.20846875,"end":2442.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2443.3622187500005,"end":2449.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2449.8759687500005,"end":2452.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2453.0147187500006,"end":2464.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2464.96221875,"end":2465.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2466.2615937500004,"end":2466.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2467.13909375,"end":2478.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2478.8672187500006,"end":2483.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2487.20346875,"end":2491.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2496.5690937500003,"end":2514.9122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2515.35096875,"end":2518.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2519.1140937500004,"end":2523.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2524.46346875,"end":2556.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2556.32346875,"end":2564.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2564.42346875,"end":2568.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2568.8447187500005,"end":2569.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2570.9372187500003,"end":2576.1347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2576.3203437500006,"end":2583.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2584.2178437500006,"end":2588.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2588.6728437500005,"end":2595.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2596.16534375,"end":2601.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2601.4303437500002,"end":2604.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2605.7165937500004,"end":2610.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2610.8465937500005,"end":2612.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2613.3778437500005,"end":2613.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2614.2722187500003,"end":2614.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2615.1328437500006,"end":2617.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2618.59221875,"end":2621.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2621.5790937500005,"end":2622.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2622.62534375,"end":2624.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2625.46034375,"end":2626.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2626.96221875,"end":2642.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2643.5672187500004,"end":2644.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2645.05221875,"end":2647.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2647.70159375,"end":2666.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2666.4834687500006,"end":2674.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2674.6003437500003,"end":2675.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2676.7097187500003,"end":2680.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2681.2322187500004,"end":2682.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2683.00409375,"end":2693.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2693.75346875,"end":2707.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2708.2322187500004,"end":2712.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2713.1934687500006,"end":2714.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2715.0497187500005,"end":2716.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2716.6190937500005,"end":2723.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2723.80784375,"end":2726.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2726.6259687500005,"end":2729.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2729.9503437500007,"end":2735.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2735.8397187500004,"end":2738.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2739.48471875,"end":2759.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2759.43096875,"end":2770.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2770.93971875,"end":2774.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2775.58034375,"end":2778.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2779.14096875,"end":2780.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2780.4403437500005,"end":2781.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2781.8240937500004,"end":2783.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2784.22034375,"end":2789.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2789.82284375,"end":2790.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2792.03346875,"end":2803.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2803.86284375,"end":2810.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2811.3553437500004,"end":2817.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2818.39221875,"end":2819.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2820.67034375,"end":2825.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2826.2897187500002,"end":2831.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2831.9765937500006,"end":2844.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2844.5653437500005,"end":2845.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2846.40471875,"end":2856.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2857.42409375,"end":2862.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2863.0097187500005,"end":2869.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2869.9284687500003,"end":2872.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2873.2022187500006,"end":2901.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2902.5984687500004,"end":2907.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2908.4372187500003,"end":2911.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2911.6940937500003,"end":2927.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2928.4678437500006,"end":2936.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2937.5465937500003,"end":2943.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2943.7734687500006,"end":2957.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2958.5897187500004,"end":2959.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2960.5303437500006,"end":2961.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2962.30221875,"end":2965.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2965.6940937500003,"end":2987.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2988.22221875,"end":3008.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3008.4384687500005,"end":3009.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3010.1259687500005,"end":3033.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3033.59909375,"end":3034.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3035.64096875,"end":3040.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3041.05784375,"end":3042.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3042.6103437500005,"end":3062.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3063.2315937500007,"end":3063.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3066.45471875,"end":3067.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3067.8722187500007,"end":3069.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3070.42034375,"end":3077.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3078.26721875,"end":3080.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3080.71409375,"end":3081.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3081.9628437500005,"end":3084.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3085.0340937500005,"end":3090.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3090.6534687500007,"end":3109.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3110.36346875,"end":3116.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3117.8728437500004,"end":3157.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3158.22096875,"end":3158.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3159.4022187500004,"end":3169.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3170.89409375,"end":3171.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3171.8897187500006,"end":3181.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3181.96409375,"end":3191.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3192.4265937500004,"end":3193.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3194.2490937500006,"end":3206.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3207.1415937500005,"end":3220.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3221.62034375,"end":3225.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3228.3028437500006,"end":3228.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3229.0284687500007,"end":3233.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3233.5509687500007,"end":3237.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3237.6347187500005,"end":3240.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3241.21221875,"end":3242.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3242.9334687500004,"end":3244.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3245.61659375,"end":3246.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3247.5909687500007,"end":3248.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3248.68784375,"end":3250.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3251.4384687500005,"end":3253.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3254.5097187500005,"end":3257.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3258.08721875,"end":3260.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3280.58159375,"end":3283.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3289.30596875,"end":3296.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3299.85284375,"end":3301.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3300.1903437500005,"end":3300.2072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3300.2072187500007,"end":3301.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3302.1815937500005,"end":3306.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3306.8728437500004,"end":3307.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3308.0878437500005,"end":3311.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3311.7159687500007,"end":3328.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3328.6922187500004,"end":3329.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3330.17721875,"end":3336.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3336.4884687500007,"end":3338.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3338.80034375,"end":3339.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3339.74534375,"end":3344.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3344.38596875,"end":3346.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3346.44471875,"end":3367.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3368.1122187500005,"end":3383.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3383.68784375,"end":3400.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3400.69784375,"end":3404.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3404.5284687500007,"end":3410.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3410.68784375,"end":3412.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3412.0378437500003,"end":3412.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3412.8984687500006,"end":3412.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3412.91534375,"end":3412.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3412.9490937500004,"end":3412.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3412.9659687500007,"end":3415.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3416.96534375,"end":3419.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3419.7159687500007,"end":3426.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3426.71909375,"end":3428.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3429.1153437500006,"end":3430.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3430.7184687500003,"end":3432.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3432.76034375,"end":3441.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3442.9190937500007,"end":3445.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3446.5809687500005,"end":3448.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3449.1122187500005,"end":3453.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3453.95534375,"end":3471.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3472.1297187500004,"end":3476.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3477.0065937500003,"end":3493.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3493.5947187500005,"end":3501.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3500.66534375,"end":3501.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3502.1334687500002,"end":3521.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3521.8434687500003,"end":3524.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3524.5603437500004,"end":3525.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3526.1465937500006,"end":3530.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3530.2809687500003,"end":3531.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3532.3397187500004,"end":3535.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3535.8834687500002,"end":3536.7440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3537.13221875,"end":3538.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3538.8028437500006,"end":3542.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3543.22409375,"end":3544.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3545.4684687500003,"end":3545.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3545.94096875,"end":3546.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3546.0253437500005,"end":3557.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3557.61846875,"end":3559.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3559.9303437500002,"end":3563.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3564.0984687500004,"end":3565.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3565.7859687500004,"end":3567.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3568.0134687500004,"end":3578.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3579.08346875,"end":3584.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3584.87159375,"end":3588.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3588.2634687500004,"end":3588.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3588.43221875,"end":3588.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3588.55034375,"end":3593.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3593.8322187500007,"end":3597.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3597.3590937500003,"end":3605.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3605.61096875,"end":3615.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3615.66846875,"end":3622.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3622.0303437500006,"end":3631.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3625.72596875,"end":3626.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3632.3240937500004,"end":3636.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3636.5428437500004,"end":3636.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3636.64409375,"end":3636.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3636.7959687500006,"end":3646.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3636.81284375,"end":3636.8634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3647.8153437500005,"end":3648.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3649.1484687500006,"end":3651.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3651.6628437500003,"end":3656.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3656.6915937500007,"end":3657.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3658.2440937500005,"end":3659.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3660.25221875,"end":3664.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3664.58909375,"end":3667.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3668.14971875,"end":3672.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3672.97596875,"end":3674.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3675.87846875,"end":3676.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3677.32971875,"end":3678.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3678.6797187500006,"end":3680.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3681.3290937500005,"end":3682.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3683.45534375,"end":3685.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3686.10471875,"end":3689.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3689.91846875,"end":3696.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3697.6472187500003,"end":3703.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3704.12721875,"end":3706.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3706.7090937500006,"end":3709.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3709.6453437500004,"end":3713.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3713.8640937500004,"end":3715.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3715.16346875,"end":3718.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3718.6903437500005,"end":3720.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3720.9853437500005,"end":3721.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3722.3184687500006,"end":3722.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3723.6178437500002,"end":3724.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3725.3222187500005,"end":3727.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3727.34721875,"end":3729.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3729.4228437500005,"end":3730.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3730.9753437500003,"end":3734.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3734.94096875,"end":3735.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3736.1053437500004,"end":3736.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3737.7253437500003,"end":3739.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3740.2059687500005,"end":3742.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3743.66534375,"end":3748.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3748.5928437500006,"end":3753.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3754.4990937500006,"end":3766.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3766.4972187500007,"end":3767.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3766.9190937500007,"end":3768.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3768.67409375,"end":3772.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3772.6228437500004,"end":3773.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3773.1797187500006,"end":3797.0578437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3797.49659375,"end":3800.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3801.2765937500008,"end":3809.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3809.0390937500006,"end":3812.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3813.0722187500005,"end":3828.8672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3829.1540937500004,"end":3839.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3839.7009687500004,"end":3845.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3845.8434687500003,"end":3869.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3869.3672187500006,"end":3869.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3869.9072187500005,"end":3888.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3889.0265937500008,"end":3896.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3896.6203437500008,"end":3922.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3922.8778437500005,"end":3926.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3926.9784687500005,"end":3931.3322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3932.0915937500004,"end":3934.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3941.71034375,"end":3944.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3946.18221875,"end":3954.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3948.8990937500002,"end":3949.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3956.23971875,"end":3957.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3958.4503437500007,"end":3970.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3959.5134687500004,"end":3960.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3970.33034375,"end":3979.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3979.1053437500004,"end":3992.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3993.01034375,"end":3993.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3994.3097187500007,"end":3994.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3995.4403437500005,"end":3995.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3996.3515937500006,"end":4004.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4004.8397187500004,"end":4015.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4015.0828437500004,"end":4015.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4016.09534375,"end":4018.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4019.1159687500003,"end":4031.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4031.7890937500006,"end":4043.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4043.2472187500007,"end":4043.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4043.9053437500006,"end":4088.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4088.89409375,"end":4093.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4093.6359687500008,"end":4103.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4104.01409375,"end":4106.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4106.5115937499995,"end":4108.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4107.979718750001,"end":4160.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4161.20346875,"end":4166.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4167.075968749999,"end":4184.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4185.11534375,"end":4187.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4188.91221875,"end":4193.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4192.97909375,"end":4199.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4199.475968750001,"end":4200.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4199.50971875,"end":4214.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4207.03596875,"end":4207.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4207.32284375,"end":4207.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4214.714093750001,"end":4225.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4225.716593749999,"end":4246.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4247.232218749999,"end":4251.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4251.265343749999,"end":4254.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4255.770968750001,"end":4282.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4281.640343749999,"end":4297.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4282.61909375,"end":4283.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4298.667218750001,"end":4324.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4324.14846875,"end":4329.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4329.649718750001,"end":4335.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4336.163468750001,"end":4350.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4347.689093749999,"end":4348.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4349.005343750001,"end":4349.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4350.2372187500005,"end":4350.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4350.7772187499995,"end":4369.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4369.45784375,"end":4380.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4380.94971875,"end":4405.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4406.16096875,"end":4423.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4423.84596875,"end":4423.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4423.89659375,"end":4424.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4424.13284375,"end":4424.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4424.36909375,"end":4424.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4425.229718750001,"end":4452.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4452.735968749999,"end":4464.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4464.784718749999,"end":4469.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4465.493468750001,"end":4465.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4465.56096875,"end":4465.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4465.965968750001,"end":4466.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4466.03346875,"end":4466.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4466.97846875,"end":4470.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4469.08784375,"end":4469.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4470.57284375,"end":4471.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4472.81721875,"end":4478.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4487.44784375,"end":4488.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4488.57846875,"end":4490.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4495.27784375,"end":4495.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4495.9022187499995,"end":4495.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4496.17221875,"end":4496.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4496.91471875,"end":4496.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4496.948468750001,"end":4496.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4496.96534375,"end":4497.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4497.06659375,"end":4499.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4499.83409375,"end":4500.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4500.036593750001,"end":4502.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4503.44534375,"end":4504.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4505.419718749999,"end":4522.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4523.35784375,"end":4523.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4523.54346875,"end":4523.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4523.91471875,"end":4531.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4532.55471875,"end":4533.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4533.90471875,"end":4537.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4538.07284375,"end":4541.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4543.10159375,"end":4549.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4549.9697187500005,"end":4552.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4552.51784375,"end":4553.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4554.94784375,"end":4557.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4558.00221875,"end":4558.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4558.60971875,"end":4559.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4561.309718750001,"end":4563.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4563.72284375,"end":4565.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4565.899718750001,"end":4566.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4567.46909375,"end":4568.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4569.325343750001,"end":4571.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4571.87346875,"end":4573.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4573.9490937499995,"end":4575.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4575.82221875,"end":4576.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4577.526593750001,"end":4578.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4578.370343750001,"end":4581.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4582.639718750001,"end":4591.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4592.35971875,"end":4596.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4597.2197187500005,"end":4599.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4600.05471875,"end":4605.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4606.635968750001,"end":4607.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4609.302218750001,"end":4610.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4611.327218750001,"end":4612.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4612.89659375,"end":4613.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4614.128468749999,"end":4619.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4619.747843749999,"end":4621.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4622.329718749999,"end":4625.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4626.514718750001,"end":4629.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4630.04159375,"end":4631.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4632.25221875,"end":4634.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4635.05346875,"end":4636.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4636.437218749999,"end":4636.909718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4638.462218750001,"end":4646.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4645.00971875,"end":4646.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4646.03909375,"end":4646.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4646.241593750001,"end":4646.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4646.25846875,"end":4646.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4647.220343749999,"end":4647.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4647.2372187500005,"end":4652.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4653.548468749999,"end":4653.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4654.47659375,"end":4656.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4657.64909375,"end":4659.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4659.792218750001,"end":4663.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4663.774718750001,"end":4666.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4668.16221875,"end":4673.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4673.54534375,"end":4673.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4674.28784375,"end":4678.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4678.97909375,"end":4679.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4680.02534375,"end":4681.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4682.72534375,"end":4686.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4687.28159375,"end":4688.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4689.8465937500005,"end":4690.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4692.47909375,"end":4697.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4698.182843750001,"end":4702.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4702.23284375,"end":4703.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4705.354718750001,"end":4705.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4706.40096875,"end":4707.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4707.126593749999,"end":4707.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4707.76784375,"end":4708.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4708.71284375,"end":4709.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4709.96159375,"end":4711.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4712.999093750001,"end":4713.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4714.770968750001,"end":4726.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4726.397843750001,"end":4727.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4729.013468749999,"end":4731.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4731.510968750001,"end":4733.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4734.16034375,"end":4736.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4736.72534375,"end":4737.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4738.69971875,"end":4739.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4740.134093750001,"end":4741.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4741.956593750001,"end":4742.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4743.137843750001,"end":4743.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4744.60596875,"end":4746.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4747.2215937500005,"end":4750.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4751.08596875,"end":4756.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4757.02596875,"end":4757.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4758.81471875,"end":4761.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4761.464093750001,"end":4762.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4764.0965937500005,"end":4789.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4789.9490937499995,"end":4792.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4790.26971875,"end":4790.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4792.733468750001,"end":4792.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4792.80096875,"end":4799.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4795.55159375,"end":4795.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4795.56846875,"end":4796.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4796.513468749999,"end":4796.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4796.86784375,"end":4797.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4797.5428437499995,"end":4798.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4799.02784375,"end":4799.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4799.331593750001,"end":4803.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4800.5634687500005,"end":4802.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4804.22534375,"end":4805.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4806.77346875,"end":4819.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4819.51409375,"end":4824.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4825.724093750001,"end":4827.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4827.68159375,"end":4828.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4829.4872187500005,"end":4830.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4832.45721875,"end":4834.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4835.055968750001,"end":4835.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4836.591593749999,"end":4838.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4838.92034375,"end":4844.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4844.843468749999,"end":4845.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4845.923468749999,"end":4847.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4847.88096875,"end":4849.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4851.222218750001,"end":4853.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4854.090968750001,"end":4854.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4855.98096875,"end":4858.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4859.423468749999,"end":4861.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4863.135968750001,"end":4863.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4864.6884687500005,"end":4865.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4865.92034375,"end":4872.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4874.72909375,"end":4876.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4876.65284375,"end":4878.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4878.89721875,"end":4881.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4881.597218750001,"end":4883.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4884.56721875,"end":4887.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4888.482218749999,"end":4891.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4892.194718750001,"end":4892.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4893.39284375,"end":4895.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4895.468468749999,"end":4896.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4897.493468750001,"end":4898.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4898.48909375,"end":4899.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4899.687218749999,"end":4899.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4899.72096875,"end":4899.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4899.82221875,"end":4899.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4899.839093750001,"end":4899.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4901.27346875,"end":4902.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4903.686593750001,"end":4904.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4906.65659375,"end":4907.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4907.854718750001,"end":4909.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4909.55909375,"end":4911.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4912.79909375,"end":4913.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4914.30096875,"end":4916.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4917.05159375,"end":4917.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4918.23284375,"end":4920.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4922.434718750001,"end":4922.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4924.22346875,"end":4925.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4925.894093750001,"end":4927.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4927.632218750001,"end":4928.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4928.93159375,"end":4933.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4933.8759687500005,"end":4934.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4935.225968750001,"end":4936.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4937.1834687499995,"end":4939.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4939.5965937500005,"end":4943.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4944.11909375,"end":4945.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4945.587218750001,"end":4946.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4947.34221875,"end":4948.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4948.92846875,"end":4949.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4950.10971875,"end":4950.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4952.2528437500005,"end":4958.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4954.61534375,"end":4955.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4958.108468750001,"end":4958.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4958.31096875,"end":4958.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4959.10409375,"end":4960.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4961.02784375,"end":4964.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4965.179093750001,"end":4968.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4970.747843749999,"end":4972.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4972.637843750001,"end":4973.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4974.49409375,"end":4976.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4976.468468749999,"end":4977.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4978.51034375,"end":4979.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4979.74221875,"end":4980.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4981.61534375,"end":4982.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4982.96534375,"end":5001.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5001.20721875,"end":5001.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5001.84846875,"end":5001.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5001.86534375,"end":5002.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5001.94971875,"end":5001.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5002.00034375,"end":5006.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5007.450968749999,"end":5009.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5010.2353437500005,"end":5011.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5013.222218750001,"end":5014.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5015.1122187500005,"end":5017.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5018.385968750001,"end":5019.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5020.37721875,"end":5021.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5022.35159375,"end":5023.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5023.583468750001,"end":5023.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5023.870343750001,"end":5023.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5023.954718749999,"end":5025.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5025.47346875,"end":5026.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5026.94159375,"end":5028.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5028.696593750001,"end":5030.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5032.8309687500005,"end":5032.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5032.864718750001,"end":5042.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5038.028468750001,"end":5040.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5042.517218749999,"end":5046.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5047.7147187499995,"end":5048.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5049.77346875,"end":5051.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5052.89534375,"end":5054.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5055.409718750001,"end":5056.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5056.624718749999,"end":5058.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5058.53159375,"end":5059.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5060.64096875,"end":5065.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5066.142218749999,"end":5067.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5069.77034375,"end":5091.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5089.733468750001,"end":5098.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5099.30159375,"end":5103.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5113.155968749999,"end":5115.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5117.340968750001,"end":5133.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5134.18221875,"end":5143.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5143.632218750001,"end":5144.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5145.20159375,"end":5149.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5148.880343750001,"end":5149.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5149.167218750001,"end":5149.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5149.55534375,"end":5153.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5154.48284375,"end":5172.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5173.028468750001,"end":5205.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5205.968468749999,"end":5207.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5207.436593750001,"end":5210.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5210.423468749999,"end":5227.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5228.192843750001,"end":5264.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5264.72721875,"end":5277.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5277.552218750001,"end":5292.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5292.72284375,"end":5294.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5295.794093750001,"end":5296.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5296.89096875,"end":5298.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5298.57846875,"end":5301.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5302.00409375,"end":5315.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5316.364718750001,"end":5323.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5324.73471875,"end":5325.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5326.60784375,"end":5335.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5336.1590937500005,"end":5351.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5351.565968750001,"end":5370.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5370.9384687500005,"end":5371.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5371.866593750001,"end":5376.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5376.507218750001,"end":5380.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5380.4559687500005,"end":5381.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5382.1434687500005,"end":5385.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5385.450968749999,"end":5394.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5394.546593749999,"end":5427.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5428.2459687499995,"end":5430.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5430.321593750001,"end":5444.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5444.530343750001,"end":5447.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5448.05721875,"end":5449.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5449.305968750001,"end":5451.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5452.14096875,"end":5495.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5495.796593749999,"end":5500.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5501.247218750001,"end":5503.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5503.37346875,"end":5505.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5506.022843750001,"end":5511.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5511.456593750001,"end":5511.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5511.86159375,"end":5517.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5517.58221875,"end":5520.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5521.32846875,"end":5522.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5522.340968750001,"end":5525.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5525.36159375,"end":5532.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5533.5965937500005,"end":5540.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5540.8865937499995,"end":5546.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5546.91096875,"end":5575.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5576.3240937499995,"end":5596.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5596.0340937500005,"end":5596.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5596.675343750001,"end":5597.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5597.13096875,"end":5597.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5597.249093750001,"end":5650.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5650.017218749999,"end":5650.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5650.65846875,"end":5650.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5650.70909375,"end":5651.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5652.39659375,"end":5654.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5654.708468750001,"end":5657.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5656.85159375,"end":5656.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5657.340968750001,"end":5669.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5659.450343750001,"end":5660.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5660.1590937500005,"end":5660.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5660.26034375,"end":5660.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5660.327843749999,"end":5660.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5661.509093750001,"end":5662.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5662.04909375,"end":5662.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5664.090968750001,"end":5665.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5666.807843750001,"end":5667.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5668.93409375,"end":5669.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5669.659718750001,"end":5669.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5669.67659375,"end":5669.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5669.69346875,"end":5669.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5669.794718749999,"end":5669.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5669.811593750001,"end":5669.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5671.3134687500005,"end":5673.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5674.57034375,"end":5675.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5676.29159375,"end":5679.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5679.6834687499995,"end":5688.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5688.745343750001,"end":5693.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5694.128468750001,"end":5697.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5698.88721875,"end":5700.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5700.929093750001,"end":5725.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5726.22471875,"end":5728.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5736.6365937499995,"end":5739.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5739.35346875,"end":5740.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5744.77034375,"end":5744.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5744.78721875,"end":5744.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5744.888468749999,"end":5745.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5745.05721875,"end":5745.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5745.360968749999,"end":5754.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5754.52409375,"end":5754.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5754.54096875,"end":5754.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5754.94596875,"end":5769.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5756.73471875,"end":5757.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5757.10596875,"end":5757.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5769.44159375,"end":5770.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5770.622843749999,"end":5774.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5775.11159375,"end":5783.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5779.65096875,"end":5779.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5780.427218750001,"end":5780.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5783.31284375,"end":5783.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5783.667218750001,"end":5788.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5787.835343750001,"end":5788.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5788.37534375,"end":5788.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5788.88159375,"end":5801.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5801.68971875,"end":5801.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5801.807843750001,"end":5801.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5801.841593749999,"end":5801.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5802.39846875,"end":5813.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5813.21534375,"end":5813.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5813.40096875,"end":5823.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5823.880343750001,"end":5826.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5826.512843750001,"end":5826.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5826.68159375,"end":5828.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5828.72346875,"end":5829.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5829.06096875,"end":5833.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5834.12346875,"end":5839.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5839.911593750001,"end":5841.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5841.53159375,"end":5853.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5853.512843750001,"end":5861.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5861.241593750001,"end":5861.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5861.528468750001,"end":5864.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5862.878468750001,"end":5863.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5863.013468749999,"end":5863.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5864.8865937499995,"end":5864.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5864.903468750001,"end":5864.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5864.92034375,"end":5865.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5865.02159375,"end":5869.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5865.089093750001,"end":5865.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5868.9872187500005,"end":5869.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5869.03784375,"end":5869.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5869.071593750001,"end":5877.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5869.08846875,"end":5869.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5877.795968750001,"end":5878.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5878.08284375,"end":5880.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5878.09971875,"end":5878.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5878.13346875,"end":5878.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5880.76596875,"end":5883.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5883.85409375,"end":5887.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5888.342843750001,"end":5890.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5890.485968750001,"end":5896.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5896.45971875,"end":5899.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5900.054093750001,"end":5900.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5900.08784375,"end":5905.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5905.302218750001,"end":5909.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5909.706593750001,"end":5909.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5909.77409375,"end":5909.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5909.993468750001,"end":5914.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5910.0272187499995,"end":5910.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5910.24659375,"end":5910.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5914.583468750001,"end":5915.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5916.05159375,"end":5916.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5916.30471875,"end":5916.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5916.405968749999,"end":5918.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5916.4228437500005,"end":5916.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5919.34221875,"end":5920.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5921.147843750001,"end":5922.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5922.61596875,"end":5923.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5923.00409375,"end":5925.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5925.366593750001,"end":5925.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5925.82221875,"end":5928.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5925.839093750001,"end":5925.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5929.18034375,"end":5930.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5931.62721875,"end":5935.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5935.87971875,"end":5943.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5943.591593749999,"end":5943.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5943.608468750001,"end":5946.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5943.6590937500005,"end":5943.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5946.932843750001,"end":5948.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5948.704718750001,"end":5950.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5950.392218750001,"end":5950.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5951.06721875,"end":5952.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5953.109093749999,"end":5956.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5956.56846875,"end":5967.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5961.05721875,"end":5961.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5961.5634687500005,"end":5961.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5967.604718750001,"end":5967.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5967.739718750001,"end":5970.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5972.22846875,"end":5972.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5973.15659375,"end":5978.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5978.50596875,"end":5983.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5984.091593749999,"end":5984.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5985.4247187500005,"end":5988.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5988.411593750001,"end":5989.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5989.575968749999,"end":5990.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5990.234093749999,"end":5994.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5994.419093750001,"end":5995.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5996.3934687500005,"end":6001.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6001.52346875,"end":6012.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6004.493468750001,"end":6005.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6012.81284375,"end":6016.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6014.010968750001,"end":6017.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6016.997843749999,"end":6027.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6027.696593750001,"end":6039.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6031.61159375,"end":6031.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6031.763468749999,"end":6031.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6031.864718750001,"end":6031.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6035.7459687499995,"end":6035.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6035.77971875,"end":6036.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6039.91409375,"end":6042.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6041.804093750001,"end":6042.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6042.58034375,"end":6048.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6048.840968750001,"end":6051.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6051.135968750001,"end":6052.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6052.80659375,"end":6053.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6053.68409375,"end":6056.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6056.670968750001,"end":6057.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6056.97471875,"end":6058.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6058.18971875,"end":6066.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6066.137843750001,"end":6066.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6066.44159375,"end":6068.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6067.774718750001,"end":6069.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6069.52971875,"end":6076.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6076.09409375,"end":6076.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6076.296593749999,"end":6076.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6076.43159375,"end":6076.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6076.56659375,"end":6077.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6076.61721875,"end":6079.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6079.41846875,"end":6081.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6080.380343750001,"end":6082.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6082.52346875,"end":6085.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6083.40096875,"end":6088.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6088.733468750001,"end":6089.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6089.02034375,"end":6089.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6089.138468749999,"end":6092.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6090.62346875,"end":6093.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6093.28971875,"end":6093.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6093.745343750001,"end":6093.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6093.8465937500005,"end":6099.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6099.24659375,"end":6102.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6102.925343750001,"end":6103.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6103.22909375,"end":6114.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6107.54909375,"end":6108.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6111.700343750001,"end":6111.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6114.77159375,"end":6114.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6114.80534375,"end":6114.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6114.974093750001,"end":6115.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6115.24409375,"end":6120.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6120.8465937500005,"end":6131.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6127.00596875,"end":6127.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6131.88284375,"end":6133.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6133.70534375,"end":6136.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6136.2197187500005,"end":6136.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6136.42221875,"end":6138.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6138.48096875,"end":6140.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6140.82659375,"end":6140.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6140.96159375,"end":6142.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6140.97846875,"end":6141.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6143.475968750001,"end":6145.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6145.028468750001,"end":6145.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6145.247843749999,"end":6148.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6147.52596875,"end":6149.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6149.17971875,"end":6154.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6154.79909375,"end":6158.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6159.608468750001,"end":6160.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6159.70971875,"end":6160.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6160.80659375,"end":6162.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6162.932843750001,"end":6165.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6165.835343750001,"end":6166.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6166.61159375,"end":6168.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6168.417218750001,"end":6169.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6169.682843750001,"end":6169.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6169.88534375,"end":6169.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6169.9697187500005,"end":6171.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6171.75846875,"end":6173.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6173.2772187499995,"end":6174.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6174.81284375,"end":6176.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6177.68159375,"end":6181.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6181.866593750001,"end":6188.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6183.840968750001,"end":6183.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6183.975968750001,"end":6184.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6184.819718750001,"end":6184.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6184.98846875,"end":6185.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6186.4228437500005,"end":6186.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6186.43971875,"end":6189.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6190.47284375,"end":6193.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6193.780343750001,"end":6196.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6194.624093750001,"end":6195.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6195.40034375,"end":6196.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6196.32846875,"end":6196.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6196.345343750001,"end":6196.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6196.37909375,"end":6196.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6196.42971875,"end":6197.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6196.51409375,"end":6196.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6197.83034375,"end":6198.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6197.847218750001,"end":6197.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6197.897843750001,"end":6197.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6198.083468750001,"end":6200.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6199.534718750001,"end":6200.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6200.378468750001,"end":6201.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6202.015343749999,"end":6206.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6202.55534375,"end":6202.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6202.6903437500005,"end":6203.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6206.97659375,"end":6215.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6207.499718749999,"end":6207.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6212.055968750001,"end":6212.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6214.14846875,"end":6214.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6215.16096875,"end":6233.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6217.33784375,"end":6218.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6220.32471875,"end":6220.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6224.54346875,"end":6224.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6232.8290937500005,"end":6234.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6234.34784375,"end":6235.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6235.69784375,"end":6240.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6240.456593750001,"end":6242.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6242.31284375,"end":6242.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6242.3465937500005,"end":6244.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6242.41409375,"end":6242.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6244.860968750001,"end":6245.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6245.519093750001,"end":6253.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6250.98659375,"end":6251.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6251.374718749999,"end":6251.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6253.97346875,"end":6256.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6254.07471875,"end":6254.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6254.530343750001,"end":6254.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6256.217843750001,"end":6256.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6256.251593750001,"end":6256.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6256.28534375,"end":6256.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6256.42034375,"end":6257.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6256.6903437500005,"end":6258.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6258.05721875,"end":6259.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6259.03596875,"end":6259.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6259.08659375,"end":6259.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6259.2215937500005,"end":6260.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6261.43221875,"end":6261.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6261.82034375,"end":6261.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6261.837218750001,"end":6261.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6261.85409375,"end":6261.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6264.53721875,"end":6265.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6265.88721875,"end":6265.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6265.920968750001,"end":6265.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6266.27534375,"end":6266.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6266.96721875,"end":6268.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6268.823468750001,"end":6270.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6268.857218749999,"end":6270.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6270.595343750001,"end":6271.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6272.198468750001,"end":6274.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6274.84784375,"end":6279.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6279.20159375,"end":6282.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6280.88909375,"end":6287.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6282.981593750001,"end":6283.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6287.4872187500005,"end":6287.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6287.74034375,"end":6288.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6289.19159375,"end":6289.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6290.0184687500005,"end":6292.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6292.212218750001,"end":6295.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6296.329718750001,"end":6296.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6297.67971875,"end":6300.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6301.24034375,"end":6306.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6306.67409375,"end":6308.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6308.44596875,"end":6319.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6311.36534375,"end":6311.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6316.967843750001,"end":6318.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6319.499093750001,"end":6325.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6326.147843750001,"end":6332.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6332.897843750001,"end":6332.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6332.999093750001,"end":6336.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6336.86346875,"end":6339.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6339.310343749999,"end":6340.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6340.390343749999,"end":6341.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6341.6053437499995,"end":6343.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6343.1747187500005,"end":6343.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6343.495343750001,"end":6347.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6348.62534375,"end":6351.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6351.25784375,"end":6351.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6351.510968750001,"end":6362.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6362.985968750001,"end":6363.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6363.137843750001,"end":6366.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6367.170968750001,"end":6369.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6369.76971875,"end":6370.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6370.208468750001,"end":6373.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6374.30909375,"end":6375.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6376.46909375,"end":6378.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6378.62909375,"end":6382.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6382.51034375,"end":6390.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6385.93596875,"end":6385.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6385.952843749999,"end":6386.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6386.03721875,"end":6387.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6391.15034375,"end":6391.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6391.622843749999,"end":6400.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6392.196593750001,"end":6392.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6400.954718750001,"end":6403.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6403.2665937500005,"end":6405.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6405.34221875,"end":6409.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6409.679093750001,"end":6409.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6409.71284375,"end":6410.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6409.93221875,"end":6411.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6411.501593750001,"end":6413.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6411.737843750001,"end":6411.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6413.560343749999,"end":6414.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6415.4334687499995,"end":6418.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6418.4540937500005,"end":6418.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6419.16284375,"end":6425.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6425.35596875,"end":6428.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6428.49471875,"end":6431.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6432.71346875,"end":6435.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6435.80159375,"end":6438.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6438.265343749999,"end":6439.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6439.733468750001,"end":6443.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6444.1209687499995,"end":6444.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6444.23909375,"end":6446.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6444.25596875,"end":6444.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6446.331593750001,"end":6450.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6450.314093750001,"end":6450.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6450.80346875,"end":6451.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6451.66409375,"end":6457.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6451.815968750001,"end":6452.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6453.80721875,"end":6453.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6453.85784375,"end":6454.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6454.026593750001,"end":6454.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6454.46534375,"end":6454.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6454.499093750001,"end":6454.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6454.51596875,"end":6454.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6454.70159375,"end":6455.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6455.055968750001,"end":6455.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6455.73096875,"end":6455.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6455.849093750001,"end":6456.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6456.929093750001,"end":6457.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6457.84034375,"end":6458.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6458.39721875,"end":6461.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6462.734093749999,"end":6465.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6466.294718749999,"end":6469.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6469.720343750001,"end":6473.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6472.622843749999,"end":6475.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6479.77784375,"end":6482.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6482.798468750001,"end":6482.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6482.8153437500005,"end":6483.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6488.18159375,"end":6489.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6488.805968750001,"end":6503.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6489.1434687500005,"end":6489.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6489.44721875,"end":6489.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6489.599093750001,"end":6489.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6503.87534375,"end":6504.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6504.0947187500005,"end":6563.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6564.49034375,"end":6566.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6566.92034375,"end":6591.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6583.87971875,"end":6584.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6590.22471875,"end":6590.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6591.06846875,"end":6596.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6596.7215937500005,"end":6598.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6598.88159375,"end":6603.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6603.96096875,"end":6606.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6607.589093750001,"end":6613.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6608.095343750001,"end":6608.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6613.22534375,"end":6624.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6614.811593750001,"end":6616.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6620.194718750001,"end":6621.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6624.34596875,"end":6641.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6640.259093750001,"end":6641.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6641.001593750001,"end":6641.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6641.03534375,"end":6641.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6641.6259687500005,"end":6641.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6641.82846875,"end":6643.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6641.845343750001,"end":6645.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6643.684718750001,"end":6643.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6646.064093750001,"end":6647.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6648.510968750001,"end":6653.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6653.4384687500005,"end":6654.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6654.872843749999,"end":6655.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6655.22721875,"end":6668.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6668.609093749999,"end":6668.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6668.64284375,"end":6669.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6669.081593750001,"end":6670.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6669.09846875,"end":6669.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6669.132218750001,"end":6669.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6669.16596875,"end":6669.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6671.190968750001,"end":6683.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6683.8134687500005,"end":6694.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6694.22534375,"end":6700.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6696.01409375,"end":6697.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6700.78971875,"end":6704.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6704.333468750001,"end":6719.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6719.03159375,"end":6720.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6719.706593750001,"end":6719.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6720.0272187499995,"end":6728.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6729.696593750001,"end":6735.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6736.00784375,"end":6741.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6742.065968750001,"end":6753.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6753.57471875,"end":6754.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6753.8447187500005,"end":6754.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6754.99221875,"end":6762.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6762.61971875,"end":6763.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6763.75034375,"end":6765.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6765.67409375,"end":6783.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6770.669093750001,"end":6771.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6782.616593750001,"end":6785.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6786.34596875,"end":6788.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6789.552218750001,"end":6807.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6797.87159375,"end":6797.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6808.14846875,"end":6813.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6813.61596875,"end":6814.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6813.90284375,"end":6839.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6839.519093750001,"end":6840.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6841.64534375,"end":6860.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6860.88284375,"end":6871.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6872.054093750001,"end":6873.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6874.028468750001,"end":6874.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6874.534718750001,"end":6875.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6876.07034375,"end":6881.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6881.757218750001,"end":6886.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6887.528468750001,"end":6890.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6889.89096875,"end":6890.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6890.717843750001,"end":6892.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6891.29159375,"end":6892.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6892.5740937499995,"end":6895.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6895.679093750001,"end":6913.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6897.40034375,"end":6897.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6902.6990937499995,"end":6902.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6902.7665937500005,"end":6902.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6913.36409375,"end":6913.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6913.51596875,"end":6914.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6913.6678437499995,"end":6917.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6916.97534375,"end":6917.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6917.245343750001,"end":6932.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6917.26221875,"end":6917.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6920.13096875,"end":6920.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6932.044718749999,"end":6932.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6932.26409375,"end":6935.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6935.92596875,"end":6952.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6940.718468750001,"end":6941.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6951.67034375,"end":6953.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6953.138468749999,"end":6954.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6953.982218749999,"end":6954.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6954.319718750001,"end":6979.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6980.189093750001,"end":6981.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6981.43784375,"end":6988.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6984.81284375,"end":6985.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6986.63534375,"end":6987.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6988.997843749999,"end":7002.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7002.312218750001,"end":7025.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7025.059718750001,"end":7048.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7030.18971875,"end":7031.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7031.235968750001,"end":7031.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7034.50971875,"end":7035.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7042.120343750001,"end":7042.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7042.13721875,"end":7043.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7047.38534375,"end":7047.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7048.819718750001,"end":7049.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7049.376593750001,"end":7075.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7053.05534375,"end":7055.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7055.11409375,"end":7055.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7055.82284375,"end":7055.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7055.8397187499995,"end":7056.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7056.970343750001,"end":7056.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7066.57221875,"end":7067.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7067.21346875,"end":7067.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7069.66034375,"end":7070.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7070.0653437500005,"end":7070.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7070.099093750001,"end":7070.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7070.68971875,"end":7070.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7070.757218750001,"end":7070.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7070.82471875,"end":7070.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7075.448468750001,"end":7076.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7076.8153437500005,"end":7078.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7079.009093750001,"end":7083.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7097.807843750001,"end":7099.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7099.56284375,"end":7101.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7106.329718750001,"end":7106.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7106.3465937500005,"end":7107.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7106.5322187500005,"end":7107.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7108.28721875,"end":7111.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7111.69596875,"end":7112.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7112.77596875,"end":7119.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7119.509093750001,"end":7125.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7125.921593750001,"end":7126.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7127.0184687500005,"end":7132.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7132.97534375,"end":7134.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7135.00034375,"end":7137.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7138.679093750001,"end":7143.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7143.85971875,"end":7144.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7144.41659375,"end":7146.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7146.222218750001,"end":7146.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7146.9647187499995,"end":7146.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7146.99846875,"end":7152.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7147.04909375,"end":7147.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7147.352843750001,"end":7147.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7152.7528437500005,"end":7155.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7155.554093750001,"end":7158.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7158.3553437499995,"end":7159.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7160.430968750001,"end":7178.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7178.82471875,"end":7179.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7179.63471875,"end":7183.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7183.75221875,"end":7207.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7202.58471875,"end":7202.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7207.765343750001,"end":7213.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7213.722218750001,"end":7214.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7215.966593749999,"end":7217.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7219.341593749999,"end":7220.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7221.130343750001,"end":7252.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7252.028468750001,"end":7252.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7252.93971875,"end":7252.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7252.97346875,"end":7253.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7253.378468750001,"end":7258.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7259.21721875,"end":7260.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7260.972218750001,"end":7261.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7261.03971875,"end":7261.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7261.731593750001,"end":7261.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7261.79909375,"end":7266.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7263.655343750001,"end":7263.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7267.04721875,"end":7271.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7267.1990937499995,"end":7269.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7269.52784375,"end":7270.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7270.42221875,"end":7275.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7273.257218750001,"end":7283.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7276.19346875,"end":7276.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7278.57284375,"end":7279.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7279.36596875,"end":7279.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7284.05721875,"end":7285.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7285.55909375,"end":7286.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7287.0947187500005,"end":7292.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7293.3553437499995,"end":7297.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7297.65846875,"end":7299.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7300.1728437500005,"end":7300.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7301.202218750001,"end":7305.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7305.5897187499995,"end":7312.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7312.27221875,"end":7315.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7315.42784375,"end":7316.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7316.997218750001,"end":7318.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7320.405968750001,"end":7321.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7321.452218750001,"end":7323.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7323.325343750001,"end":7335.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7335.9647187499995,"end":7337.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7337.2303437499995,"end":7338.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7338.5634687500005,"end":7344.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7345.41471875,"end":7346.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7346.8153437500005,"end":7347.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7348.94159375,"end":7349.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7350.359093750001,"end":7351.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7352.16471875,"end":7352.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7352.77221875,"end":7354.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7354.4090937500005,"end":7355.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7355.45534375,"end":7355.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7356.467843750001,"end":7357.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7357.581593750001,"end":7358.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7358.25659375,"end":7358.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7359.5897187499995,"end":7360.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7361.142218750001,"end":7373.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7374.4228437500005,"end":7374.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7374.8447187500005,"end":7376.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7376.97096875,"end":7379.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7379.50221875,"end":7380.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7380.39659375,"end":7387.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7388.6990937499995,"end":7394.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7394.97659375,"end":7396.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7397.17034375,"end":7399.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7399.6678437499995,"end":7401.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7401.372218750001,"end":7404.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7404.89909375,"end":7406.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7406.434718750001,"end":7409.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7409.48909375,"end":7425.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7425.8240937499995,"end":7433.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7434.092843750001,"end":7438.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7438.85159375,"end":7439.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7439.64471875,"end":7440.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7440.741593750001,"end":7441.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7442.02409375,"end":7443.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7443.9647187499995,"end":7446.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7446.68159375,"end":7457.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7457.1103437500005,"end":7458.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7459.08471875,"end":7459.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7460.31659375,"end":7461.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7461.312218750001,"end":7462.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7463.235968750001,"end":7465.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7465.83471875,"end":7471.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7471.6903437500005,"end":7471.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7471.94346875,"end":7473.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7473.15846875,"end":7490.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7490.87721875,"end":7496.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7496.952218750001,"end":7502.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7502.50409375,"end":7504.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7504.917218750001,"end":7510.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7510.587218750001,"end":7511.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7512.44346875,"end":7516.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7516.51034375,"end":7530.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7530.651593750001,"end":7535.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7531.7822187500005,"end":7532.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7536.30471875,"end":7574.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7550.81721875,"end":7551.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7574.475968750001,"end":7576.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7576.635968750001,"end":7578.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7583.45346875,"end":7590.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7591.249718750001,"end":7592.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7593.00471875,"end":7594.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7594.74284375,"end":7597.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7597.544093750001,"end":7599.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7599.19784375,"end":7600.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7600.5478437500005,"end":7602.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7603.04534375,"end":7620.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7618.57034375,"end":7619.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7620.00471875,"end":7620.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7620.544718749999,"end":7620.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7620.966593749999,"end":7633.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7634.58471875,"end":7637.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7638.16221875,"end":7640.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7641.67221875,"end":7642.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7643.140343750001,"end":7647.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7647.696593750001,"end":7652.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7652.708468750001,"end":7658.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7658.935343749999,"end":7671.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7671.96284375,"end":7700.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7700.700968749999,"end":7701.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7701.62909375,"end":7702.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7702.74284375,"end":7703.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7703.63721875,"end":7709.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7709.239718750001,"end":7709.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7709.3240937499995,"end":7710.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7710.032843750001,"end":7727.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7727.58284375,"end":7731.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7732.206593750001,"end":7737.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7736.999093750001,"end":7737.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7737.032843750001,"end":7737.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7737.0497187500005,"end":7737.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7737.083468750001,"end":7738.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7739.07471875,"end":7739.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7739.665343750001,"end":7743.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8483.785343750002,"end":8491.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8494.77096875,"end":8497.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8497.909718750001,"end":8514.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8514.29534375,"end":8519.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8519.864093750002,"end":8528.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8528.993468750003,"end":8532.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8532.95909375,"end":8540.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8543.117843750002,"end":8544.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8544.82221875,"end":8547.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8549.15909375,"end":8549.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8550.981593750003,"end":8552.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8552.53409375,"end":8552.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8552.972843750002,"end":8553.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8553.20909375,"end":8553.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8553.73221875,"end":8553.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8554.05284375,"end":8554.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8554.086593750002,"end":8555.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8557.07346875,"end":8558.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8563.739093750002,"end":8564.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8564.02596875,"end":8564.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8564.97096875,"end":8565.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8566.72596875,"end":8567.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8568.008468750002,"end":8574.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8574.67409375,"end":8578.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8578.184093750002,"end":8578.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8578.26846875,"end":8578.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8578.42034375,"end":8578.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8578.977218750002,"end":8578.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8580.040343750003,"end":8584.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8584.782218750002,"end":8585.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8585.81159375,"end":8586.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8586.942218750002,"end":8587.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8588.24159375,"end":8591.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8592.308468750001,"end":8594.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8596.34159375,"end":8599.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8599.969718750002,"end":8604.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8604.88034375,"end":8607.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8607.95159375,"end":8609.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8609.200343750003,"end":8611.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8625.484718750002,"end":8628.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8628.50534375,"end":8629.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8633.78721875,"end":8633.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8633.80409375,"end":8634.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8634.36096875,"end":8634.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8634.63096875,"end":8638.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8637.297218750002,"end":8637.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8638.832843750002,"end":8645.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8646.54471875,"end":8674.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8674.43909375,"end":8674.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8674.793468750002,"end":8677.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8677.71284375,"end":8678.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8678.77596875,"end":8700.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8700.56159375,"end":8704.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8705.117843750002,"end":8705.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8706.07971875,"end":8712.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8712.120968750001,"end":8716.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8714.46659375,"end":8715.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8716.15409375,"end":8718.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8718.415343750003,"end":8718.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8719.10721875,"end":8721.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8722.094093750002,"end":8725.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8725.890968750002,"end":8728.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8728.91159375,"end":8732.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8732.40471875,"end":8734.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8734.699718750002,"end":8735.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8735.374718750001,"end":8738.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8738.73284375,"end":8739.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8739.30659375,"end":8746.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8744.622218750003,"end":8745.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8746.394093750001,"end":8748.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8747.74409375,"end":8768.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8769.192218750002,"end":8772.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8772.870968750001,"end":8778.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8779.047218750002,"end":8781.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8781.54471875,"end":8788.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8788.88534375,"end":8790.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8791.14659375,"end":8799.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8800.20846875,"end":8803.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8803.58346875,"end":8804.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8805.372218750003,"end":8825.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8815.71659375,"end":8815.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8815.73346875,"end":8816.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8816.15534375,"end":8816.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8825.824718750002,"end":8829.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8829.570968750002,"end":8842.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8842.39596875,"end":8864.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8865.07596875,"end":8891.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8892.59909375,"end":8900.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8900.93534375,"end":8950.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8950.51409375,"end":8951.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8951.23971875,"end":8956.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8956.36971875,"end":8974.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8975.60721875,"end":9008.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9008.98596875,"end":9015.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9015.63471875,"end":9017.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9017.102843750003,"end":9029.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9029.792843750001,"end":9044.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9044.76096875,"end":9051.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9052.152218750001,"end":9059.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9057.332843750002,"end":9057.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9060.859718750002,"end":9061.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9061.230968750002,"end":9061.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9062.327843750001,"end":9069.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9069.989093750002,"end":9094.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9095.301593750002,"end":9099.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9099.570968750002,"end":9100.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9101.39346875,"end":9120.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9111.383468750002,"end":9111.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9120.293468750002,"end":9126.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9126.469718750002,"end":9135.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9135.953468750002,"end":9143.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9144.37409375,"end":9144.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9144.812843750002,"end":9149.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9150.195968750002,"end":9161.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9161.637218750002,"end":9161.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9161.87346875,"end":9162.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9162.24471875,"end":9197.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9162.801593750002,"end":9162.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9196.04534375,"end":9196.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9196.399718750003,"end":9196.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9196.73721875,"end":9200.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9201.32721875,"end":9204.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9205.49534375,"end":9236.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9237.321593750003,"end":9244.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9244.83096875,"end":9245.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9245.050343750001,"end":9245.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9245.067218750002,"end":9245.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9245.08409375,"end":9245.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9245.28659375,"end":9245.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9245.438468750002,"end":9245.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9245.539718750002,"end":9246.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9245.72534375,"end":9247.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9247.26096875,"end":9252.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9263.86596875,"end":9266.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9266.65034375,"end":9267.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9271.375343750002,"end":9271.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9271.67909375,"end":9271.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9271.695968750002,"end":9272.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9272.20221875,"end":9272.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9272.387843750003,"end":9279.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9273.653468750003,"end":9273.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9279.914093750001,"end":9282.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9283.12034375,"end":9285.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9285.17909375,"end":9323.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9324.04221875,"end":9325.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9325.746593750002,"end":9335.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9335.331593750001,"end":9337.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9337.79534375,"end":9338.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9339.195968750002,"end":9342.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9343.043468750002,"end":9344.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9345.203468750002,"end":9351.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9351.379718750002,"end":9364.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9364.69409375,"end":9370.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9371.140343750001,"end":9374.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9374.80221875,"end":9389.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9389.550968750002,"end":9403.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9403.844093750002,"end":9403.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9403.86096875,"end":9404.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9404.012843750003,"end":9404.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9404.265968750002,"end":9410.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9410.965343750002,"end":9415.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9415.42034375,"end":9425.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9425.933468750001,"end":9429.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9429.797843750002,"end":9432.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9433.223468750002,"end":9435.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9435.180968750003,"end":9436.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9435.46784375,"end":9435.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9436.39596875,"end":9443.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9443.80409375,"end":9449.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9450.047843750002,"end":9457.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9457.844093750002,"end":9460.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9460.45971875,"end":9461.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9461.387843750003,"end":9466.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9466.973468750002,"end":9483.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9483.325343750003,"end":9495.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9495.863468750002,"end":9501.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9501.246593750002,"end":9501.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9501.48284375,"end":9505.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9505.296593750001,"end":9509.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9509.27909375,"end":9517.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9517.446593750003,"end":9541.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9523.808468750001,"end":9523.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9526.37346875,"end":9526.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9541.72971875,"end":9547.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9547.821593750003,"end":9552.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9550.555343750002,"end":9550.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9553.305968750003,"end":9556.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9556.883468750002,"end":9561.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9561.22034375,"end":9571.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9571.68284375,"end":9574.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9574.46721875,"end":9576.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9577.11659375,"end":9601.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9578.98971875,"end":9579.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9579.023468750001,"end":9579.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9579.58034375,"end":9579.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9587.02221875,"end":9587.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9587.039093750001,"end":9587.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9587.32596875,"end":9587.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9601.51784375,"end":9621.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9614.66346875,"end":9614.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9614.680343750002,"end":9615.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9621.98721875,"end":9628.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9628.19721875,"end":9628.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9628.66971875,"end":9632.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9632.41596875,"end":9636.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9636.36471875,"end":9658.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9658.89284375,"end":9659.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9659.36534375,"end":9666.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9666.43596875,"end":9673.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9667.414718750002,"end":9667.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9673.45596875,"end":9675.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9675.76784375,"end":9680.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9680.77971875,"end":9682.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9683.19284375,"end":9686.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9686.48346875,"end":9692.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9692.777843750002,"end":9694.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9694.11096875,"end":9725.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9725.903468750003,"end":9729.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9730.03784375,"end":9734.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9734.914718750002,"end":9735.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9736.19721875,"end":9741.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9741.79971875,"end":9754.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9755.08034375,"end":9755.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9755.687843750002,"end":9758.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9759.012218750002,"end":9762.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9762.67409375,"end":9764.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9765.25596875,"end":9770.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9771.145343750002,"end":9773.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9773.507843750001,"end":9777.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9777.405968750001,"end":9779.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9779.464718750001,"end":9784.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9784.86471875,"end":9804.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9804.743468750003,"end":9809.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9804.794093750003,"end":9805.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9809.87346875,"end":9816.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9816.92721875,"end":9820.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9821.399093750002,"end":9822.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9822.95159375,"end":9824.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9824.75721875,"end":9825.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9825.95534375,"end":9829.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9829.094093750002,"end":9829.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9829.11096875,"end":9829.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9829.245968750001,"end":9829.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9829.566593750002,"end":9830.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9830.07284375,"end":9830.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9830.089718750001,"end":9830.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9830.359718750002,"end":9830.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9831.08534375,"end":9836.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9846.930968750003,"end":9848.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9849.023468750001,"end":9851.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9851.976593750001,"end":9853.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9855.722843750002,"end":9858.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9860.86971875,"end":9861.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9861.730343750001,"end":9862.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9863.384093750003,"end":9864.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9864.41346875,"end":9870.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9870.690968750001,"end":9871.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9872.51346875,"end":9877.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9877.54221875,"end":9879.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9880.27596875,"end":9892.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9892.965968750003,"end":9894.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9895.31159375,"end":9897.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9898.19721875,"end":9901.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9901.487843750001,"end":9901.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9901.977218750002,"end":9903.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9903.85034375,"end":9904.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9905.031593750002,"end":9906.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9906.78659375,"end":9914.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9913.50284375,"end":9914.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9914.937218750001,"end":9919.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9920.10096875,"end":9926.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9926.36159375,"end":9927.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9927.67784375,"end":9928.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9928.352843750003,"end":9967.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9967.75596875,"end":9969.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9970.06784375,"end":9974.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9975.434093750002,"end":9982.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9983.770343750002,"end":9985.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9984.614093750002,"end":9986.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9986.622218750003,"end":9986.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9987.17909375,"end":9988.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9989.37284375,"end":9990.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9995.07659375,"end":10008.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9999.008468750002,"end":9999.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10008.660968750002,"end":10015.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10015.52909375,"end":10017.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10017.503468750001,"end":10017.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10017.942218750002,"end":10017.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10017.97596875,"end":10031.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10022.954093750002,"end":10022.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10022.97096875,"end":10023.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10023.03846875,"end":10023.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10023.359093750001,"end":10023.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10023.409718750001,"end":10023.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10031.40846875,"end":10034.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10033.36596875,"end":10039.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10039.339718750001,"end":10044.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10040.352218750002,"end":10040.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10044.16596875,"end":10049.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10046.055968750003,"end":10046.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10049.262218750002,"end":10050.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10051.40534375,"end":10058.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10055.860343750002,"end":10056.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10057.71659375,"end":10065.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10061.766593750002,"end":10063.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10063.31909375,"end":10063.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10066.15409375,"end":10069.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10070.74409375,"end":10074.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10079.417843750001,"end":10081.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10082.269718750002,"end":10086.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10086.809093750002,"end":10086.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10086.94409375,"end":10092.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10092.242843750002,"end":10092.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10092.64784375,"end":10104.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10104.780968750001,"end":10107.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10107.480968750002,"end":10117.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10115.09159375,"end":10115.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10117.84221875,"end":10123.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10123.765343750001,"end":10135.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10135.67909375,"end":10153.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10153.65096875,"end":10157.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10158.325343750003,"end":10158.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10158.34221875,"end":10163.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10163.691593750002,"end":10163.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10163.860343750002,"end":10164.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10164.012218750002,"end":10167.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10164.14721875,"end":10164.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10164.50159375,"end":10170.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10170.964718750001,"end":10172.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10173.25971875,"end":10182.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10182.422843750002,"end":10185.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10185.07221875,"end":10198.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10187.08034375,"end":10187.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10188.902843750002,"end":10190.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10198.25159375,"end":10219.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10218.265343750001,"end":10220.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10219.68284375,"end":10234.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10235.207843750002,"end":10235.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10235.309093750002,"end":10235.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10235.69721875,"end":10235.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10235.84909375,"end":10235.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10235.91659375,"end":10235.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10235.933468750001,"end":10235.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10235.950343750003,"end":10235.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10235.96721875,"end":10236.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10236.034718750001,"end":10236.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10236.22034375,"end":10241.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10236.574718750002,"end":10237.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10241.40096875,"end":10246.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10246.851593750001,"end":10250.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10250.378468750001,"end":10250.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10250.445968750002,"end":10250.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10250.496593750002,"end":10250.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10251.25596875,"end":10253.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10264.28346875,"end":10265.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10265.27909375,"end":10274.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10274.543468750002,"end":10281.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10281.68159375,"end":10284.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10284.75284375,"end":10285.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10286.035343750002,"end":10289.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10290.38909375,"end":10299.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10300.19346875,"end":10329.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10331.243468750003,"end":10338.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10338.63471875,"end":10341.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10342.262843750003,"end":10342.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10342.58346875,"end":10344.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10344.405968750001,"end":10348.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10348.87784375,"end":10352.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10353.24846875,"end":10361.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10360.386593750001,"end":10370.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10370.71409375,"end":10371.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10371.13596875,"end":10375.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10371.152843750002,"end":10371.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10375.540343750003,"end":10392.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10393.47846875,"end":10399.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10400.059718750003,"end":10405.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10406.269718750002,"end":10409.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10409.442218750002,"end":10413.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10409.45909375,"end":10410.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10414.04909375,"end":10415.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10416.293468750002,"end":10421.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10421.136593750001,"end":10423.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10424.02221875,"end":10425.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10426.65471875,"end":10426.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10428.02159375,"end":10432.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10432.476593750001,"end":10434.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10442.31471875,"end":10443.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10444.035968750002,"end":10444.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10449.199718750002,"end":10449.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10450.144718750002,"end":10460.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10460.97846875,"end":10463.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10463.762843750003,"end":10467.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10468.335968750001,"end":10470.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10471.47471875,"end":10474.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10474.731593750003,"end":10474.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10474.782218750002,"end":10479.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10479.827843750001,"end":10485.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10485.61596875,"end":10515.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10493.175968750002,"end":10493.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10515.94034375,"end":10576.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10576.724093750003,"end":10595.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10595.99534375,"end":10599.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10600.16346875,"end":10601.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10601.68221875,"end":10606.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10607.11596875,"end":10610.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10610.84534375,"end":10617.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10616.34659375,"end":10621.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10617.51096875,"end":10618.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10620.12659375,"end":10624.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10624.480343750001,"end":10630.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10631.53409375,"end":10635.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10636.10721875,"end":10640.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10640.511593750001,"end":10644.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10644.86534375,"end":10650.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10650.974093750003,"end":10671.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10672.28721875,"end":10694.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10694.933468750001,"end":10719.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10719.01409375,"end":10723.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10724.27909375,"end":10727.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10728.008468750002,"end":10733.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10730.809718750003,"end":10731.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10733.340968750003,"end":10733.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10733.543468750002,"end":10740.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10740.52971875,"end":10744.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10743.989093750002,"end":10758.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10752.477218750002,"end":10753.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10756.98284375,"end":10757.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10758.062843750002,"end":10758.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10758.113468750002,"end":10769.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10766.48346875,"end":10766.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10769.402843750002,"end":10789.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10773.250343750002,"end":10773.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10781.24909375,"end":10781.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10781.789093750001,"end":10782.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10782.227843750003,"end":10782.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10783.695968750002,"end":10784.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10786.379093750002,"end":10786.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10788.859718750002,"end":10791.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10790.20971875,"end":10792.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10792.99409375,"end":10805.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10806.29159375,"end":10814.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10807.18596875,"end":10808.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10809.14346875,"end":10810.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10810.35846875,"end":10810.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10814.40846875,"end":10820.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10819.84221875,"end":10820.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10820.88846875,"end":10831.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10825.934093750002,"end":10826.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10831.40159375,"end":10833.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10833.34221875,"end":10833.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10833.51096875,"end":10833.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10834.38846875,"end":10840.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10836.29534375,"end":10837.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10837.122218750003,"end":10837.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10839.282218750002,"end":10848.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10846.707218750002,"end":10847.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10848.495968750001,"end":10874.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10871.766593750002,"end":10872.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10873.977218750002,"end":10874.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10874.53409375,"end":10874.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10874.550968750002,"end":10874.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10874.73659375,"end":10879.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10888.72596875,"end":10890.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10890.160343750002,"end":10890.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10895.52659375,"end":10895.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10895.543468750002,"end":10896.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10896.04971875,"end":10908.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10908.317843750003,"end":10918.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10919.067218750002,"end":10926.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10926.72846875,"end":10930.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10930.57596875,"end":10932.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10932.415343750003,"end":10943.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10943.535968750002,"end":10946.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10946.94471875,"end":10948.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10948.598468750002,"end":10952.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10952.749718750001,"end":10955.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10955.48346875,"end":10956.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10956.394718750002,"end":10956.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10957.62659375,"end":10959.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10959.972218750001,"end":10963.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10964.24159375,"end":10967.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10967.481593750003,"end":10971.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10971.39659375,"end":11009.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11009.83784375,"end":11012.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11013.297218750002,"end":11017.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11018.12346875,"end":11018.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11018.69721875,"end":11021.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11022.17346875,"end":11031.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11029.952843750001,"end":11031.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11031.84284375,"end":11032.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11031.859718750002,"end":11038.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11038.035968750002,"end":11039.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11040.53346875,"end":11041.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11042.237843750001,"end":11045.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11045.34284375,"end":11047.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11045.37659375,"end":11045.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11047.536593750003,"end":11054.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11050.675343750001,"end":11053.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11054.742218750001,"end":11068.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11068.96784375,"end":11070.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11071.296593750001,"end":11076.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11075.515343750001,"end":11076.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11076.96659375,"end":11077.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11078.384093750003,"end":11094.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11094.077843750001,"end":11094.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11094.449093750001,"end":11095.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11095.02284375,"end":11095.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11095.765343750001,"end":11095.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11095.79909375,"end":11100.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11101.03034375,"end":11103.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11103.308468750001,"end":11108.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11108.910968750002,"end":11112.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11113.129718750002,"end":11113.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11113.821593750003,"end":11118.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11118.90096875,"end":11120.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11119.47471875,"end":11141.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11141.90159375,"end":11154.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11154.777218750001,"end":11160.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11160.480968750002,"end":11175.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11176.242218750001,"end":11190.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11191.14284375,"end":11191.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11191.31159375,"end":11194.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11194.83846875,"end":11196.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11197.335968750001,"end":11206.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11199.79971875,"end":11200.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11206.65096875,"end":11207.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11207.612843750001,"end":11208.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11209.367843750002,"end":11223.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11223.981593750003,"end":11233.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11232.419093750003,"end":11232.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11233.02659375,"end":11237.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11237.734718750002,"end":11239.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11240.72159375,"end":11246.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11246.796593750001,"end":11255.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11253.664718750002,"end":11255.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11257.44471875,"end":11258.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11258.997218750003,"end":11262.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11272.29471875,"end":11274.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11274.640343750001,"end":11275.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11280.47909375,"end":11281.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11280.597218750001,"end":11281.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11281.440968750001,"end":11281.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11281.761593750001,"end":11281.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11282.80784375,"end":11294.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11294.97471875,"end":11302.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11299.446593750003,"end":11299.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11299.969718750002,"end":11300.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11300.13846875,"end":11300.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11303.125343750002,"end":11306.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11303.20971875,"end":11304.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11306.230343750001,"end":11307.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11308.356593750003,"end":11308.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11309.031593750002,"end":11313.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11314.17846875,"end":11314.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11315.106593750003,"end":11345.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11319.831593750001,"end":11321.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11321.14784375,"end":11321.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11321.19846875,"end":11321.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11330.226593750001,"end":11330.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11345.954093750002,"end":11381.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11346.477218750002,"end":11346.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11357.294093750003,"end":11357.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11381.99909375,"end":11391.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11391.837218750003,"end":11397.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11398.114718750003,"end":11398.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11398.13159375,"end":11398.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11398.45221875,"end":11401.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11401.87784375,"end":11402.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11402.28284375,"end":11405.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11405.320343750001,"end":11409.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11409.387218750002,"end":11409.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11409.606593750003,"end":11411.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11412.25596875,"end":11416.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11416.20471875,"end":11416.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11416.508468750002,"end":11417.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11416.52534375,"end":11416.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11417.504093750002,"end":11420.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11420.659718750001,"end":11421.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11422.212218750003,"end":11425.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11425.620968750001,"end":11431.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11431.18971875,"end":11434.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11434.24409375,"end":11434.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11434.41284375,"end":11451.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11451.64221875,"end":11456.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11456.77221875,"end":11462.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11462.222843750002,"end":11462.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11462.56034375,"end":11462.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11462.594093750002,"end":11467.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11468.06159375,"end":11475.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11468.078468750002,"end":11469.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11472.90471875,"end":11475.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11475.419093750003,"end":11482.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11482.945343750001,"end":11482.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11482.97909375,"end":11483.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11483.29971875,"end":11488.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11488.699718750002,"end":11498.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11498.824718750002,"end":11501.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11501.28846875,"end":11503.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11503.465343750002,"end":11507.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11504.511593750001,"end":11505.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11507.430968750003,"end":11511.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11510.890343750001,"end":11512.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11512.66221875,"end":11513.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11513.30346875,"end":11515.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11514.88971875,"end":11522.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11522.38221875,"end":11524.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11523.124718750001,"end":11523.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11524.778468750003,"end":11533.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11534.093468750001,"end":11547.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11546.749718750001,"end":11547.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11547.289718750002,"end":11559.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11547.52596875,"end":11547.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11553.347843750002,"end":11553.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11553.364718750003,"end":11553.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11557.00971875,"end":11557.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11557.364093750002,"end":11557.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11560.06409375,"end":11562.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11561.160968750002,"end":11562.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11562.76409375,"end":11574.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11562.797843750002,"end":11564.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11574.67784375,"end":11575.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11574.711593750002,"end":11575.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11575.79159375,"end":11577.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11577.74909375,"end":11579.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11578.035968750002,"end":11593.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11593.30784375,"end":11596.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11596.26096875,"end":11606.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11596.480343750001,"end":11596.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11605.980968750002,"end":11608.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11608.259093750003,"end":11611.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11609.64284375,"end":11612.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11612.69721875,"end":11615.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11615.02596875,"end":11619.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11620.206593750001,"end":11621.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11621.23596875,"end":11621.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11621.25284375,"end":11621.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11621.87721875,"end":11621.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11621.910968750002,"end":11625.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11626.51784375,"end":11628.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11628.289718750002,"end":11630.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11630.702843750001,"end":11634.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11643.46034375,"end":11645.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11645.45159375,"end":11646.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11650.125968750002,"end":11650.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11650.76721875,"end":11650.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11651.290343750003,"end":11657.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11658.175343750001,"end":11682.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11681.226593750001,"end":11681.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11682.812843750002,"end":11695.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11696.481593750003,"end":11700.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11701.746593750002,"end":11703.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11703.82221875,"end":11705.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11706.04971875,"end":11707.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11707.602218750002,"end":11714.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11715.28034375,"end":11719.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11719.735343750002,"end":11731.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11731.395968750003,"end":11744.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11744.237843750001,"end":11750.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11750.414093750001,"end":11753.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11754.12659375,"end":11757.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11757.34971875,"end":11759.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11760.37034375,"end":11768.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11768.571593750003,"end":11778.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11779.270343750002,"end":11783.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11783.97846875,"end":11794.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11794.20471875,"end":11819.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11819.652218750001,"end":11825.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11825.946593750003,"end":11845.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11846.38221875,"end":11853.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11854.70159375,"end":11861.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11861.434718750003,"end":11883.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11883.692843750003,"end":11886.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11887.202843750001,"end":11887.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11888.485343750002,"end":11892.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11893.09221875,"end":11897.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11897.445968750002,"end":11898.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11899.184093750002,"end":11905.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11906.17034375,"end":11909.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11909.07284375,"end":11914.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11914.574093750001,"end":11920.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11918.99534375,"end":11920.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11920.750343750002,"end":11920.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11920.969718750002,"end":11921.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11921.003468750001,"end":11921.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11923.652843750002,"end":11928.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11934.672218750002,"end":11934.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11940.03846875,"end":11942.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11942.97471875,"end":11944.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11947.29471875,"end":11948.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11947.71659375,"end":11947.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11947.750343750002,"end":11948.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11948.13846875,"end":11948.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11948.18909375,"end":11948.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11948.62784375,"end":11948.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11948.712218750003,"end":11949.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11949.03284375,"end":11949.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11949.977843750003,"end":11949.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11949.99471875,"end":11950.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11952.593468750001,"end":11954.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11955.47909375,"end":11959.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11960.237843750001,"end":11961.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11962.06034375,"end":11963.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11963.91659375,"end":11964.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11964.70971875,"end":11965.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11966.532218750002,"end":11968.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11969.316593750002,"end":11970.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11971.020968750003,"end":11971.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11971.03784375,"end":11972.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11972.67471875,"end":11972.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11972.691593750002,"end":11973.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11972.742218750001,"end":11976.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11977.281593750002,"end":11978.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11979.492218750001,"end":11980.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11981.500343750002,"end":11988.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11989.667843750001,"end":11990.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11991.33846875,"end":11991.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11992.18221875,"end":11993.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11994.49409375,"end":11995.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11996.114093750002,"end":11997.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11997.81846875,"end":11998.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11999.65784375,"end":12001.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12001.581593750001,"end":12003.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12003.82596875,"end":12005.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12005.766593750002,"end":12006.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12006.99846875,"end":12010.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12010.930343750002,"end":12012.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12012.33096875,"end":12013.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12013.630343750003,"end":12014.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12015.06471875,"end":12018.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12019.249718750001,"end":12019.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12019.722218750001,"end":12020.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12021.07221875,"end":12021.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12022.742843750002,"end":12024.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12024.88596875,"end":12025.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12026.08409375,"end":12028.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12029.56034375,"end":12037.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12038.099093750003,"end":12040.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12040.74846875,"end":12042.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12042.80721875,"end":12044.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12045.55784375,"end":12049.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12050.13096875,"end":12051.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12052.98284375,"end":12054.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12055.41284375,"end":12056.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12057.03284375,"end":12058.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12058.703468750002,"end":12059.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12060.37409375,"end":12061.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12063.293468750002,"end":12063.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12065.655968750001,"end":12067.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12067.96784375,"end":12068.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12068.237843750001,"end":12073.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12073.85721875,"end":12101.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12101.66721875,"end":12103.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12103.742843750002,"end":12109.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12109.61534375,"end":12111.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12111.437843750002,"end":12125.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12125.86596875,"end":12160.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12160.45971875,"end":12160.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12160.56096875,"end":12160.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12160.645343750002,"end":12162.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12163.36221875,"end":12169.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12169.724093750003,"end":12177.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12177.840968750003,"end":12185.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12186.29534375,"end":12193.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12194.344718750002,"end":12198.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12198.867218750001,"end":12199.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12199.305968750003,"end":12204.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12205.39784375,"end":12207.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12208.215968750003,"end":12214.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12214.81409375,"end":12224.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12222.559718750003,"end":12223.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12223.25159375,"end":12223.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12224.618468750003,"end":12228.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12229.039718750002,"end":12233.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12234.08534375,"end":12238.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12238.742843750002,"end":12240.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12241.13909375,"end":12248.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12248.766593750002,"end":12253.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12253.59284375,"end":12260.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12260.71409375,"end":12265.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12265.72596875,"end":12265.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12265.86096875,"end":12265.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12266.519093750001,"end":12272.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12272.712218750003,"end":12282.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12283.15784375,"end":12284.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12284.06909375,"end":12284.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12284.254718750002,"end":12289.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12286.92096875,"end":12286.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12290.211593750002,"end":12299.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12299.745968750001,"end":12300.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12301.230968750002,"end":12349.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12351.164093750001,"end":12352.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12352.71659375,"end":12354.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12354.927218750003,"end":12356.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12357.77909375,"end":12360.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12361.12034375,"end":12427.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12427.43909375,"end":12429.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12430.206593750001,"end":12432.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12432.957218750002,"end":12442.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12438.863468750002,"end":12438.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12442.54221875,"end":12444.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12443.082218750002,"end":12443.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12445.07346875,"end":12449.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12453.08909375,"end":12453.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12453.96659375,"end":12454.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12454.995968750001,"end":12455.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12460.93596875,"end":12463.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12463.281593750002,"end":12464.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12468.141593750002,"end":12468.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12468.175343750001,"end":12468.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12468.47909375,"end":12468.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12468.495968750001,"end":12468.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12468.78284375,"end":12485.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12485.87721875,"end":12489.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12490.04534375,"end":12495.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12495.37784375,"end":12508.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12508.641593750002,"end":12518.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12517.450343750003,"end":12532.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12533.70096875,"end":12540.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12539.472218750001,"end":12539.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12540.19784375,"end":12540.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12540.88971875,"end":12542.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12542.61096875,"end":12548.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12547.656593750002,"end":12564.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12561.17346875,"end":12561.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12564.700343750003,"end":12564.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12564.852218750002,"end":12564.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12564.97034375,"end":12577.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12565.03784375,"end":12565.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12577.96409375,"end":12584.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12579.668468750002,"end":12580.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12585.16971875,"end":12587.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12586.722218750001,"end":12588.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12587.71784375,"end":12588.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12588.59534375,"end":12588.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12588.96659375,"end":12589.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12589.35471875,"end":12597.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12597.89346875,"end":12612.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12612.22034375,"end":12635.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12614.987843750001,"end":12615.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12636.570968750002,"end":12647.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12648.61971875,"end":12666.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12666.270968750003,"end":12666.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12666.59159375,"end":12667.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12667.300343750001,"end":12674.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12675.062843750002,"end":12677.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12679.73721875,"end":12681.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12682.757843750001,"end":12683.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12683.652218750001,"end":12688.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12688.309718750003,"end":12705.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12705.10034375,"end":12707.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12707.98596875,"end":12711.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12712.10346875,"end":12712.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12713.234093750001,"end":12715.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12714.43221875,"end":12721.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12715.360343750002,"end":12715.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12721.620968750001,"end":12724.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12724.97909375,"end":12726.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12726.548468750003,"end":12730.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12730.56471875,"end":12731.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12731.492843750002,"end":12742.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12742.74846875,"end":12744.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12744.28409375,"end":12747.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12747.321593750003,"end":12747.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12747.355343750001,"end":12747.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12747.743468750003,"end":12748.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12748.03034375,"end":12757.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12748.13159375,"end":12748.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12757.969718750002,"end":12760.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12760.652843750002,"end":12763.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12763.859093750001,"end":12779.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12779.940968750001,"end":12780.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12782.050343750001,"end":12782.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12783.130343750003,"end":12796.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12797.001593750003,"end":12799.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12800.882843750001,"end":12807.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12807.83534375,"end":12807.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12807.91971875,"end":12808.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12808.864718750003,"end":12811.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12808.965968750003,"end":12809.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12812.189093750003,"end":12815.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12817.285343750002,"end":12818.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12819.141593750002,"end":12827.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12827.882843750001,"end":12838.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12838.14284375,"end":12857.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12855.844718750002,"end":12867.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12867.437843750002,"end":12871.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12871.403468750003,"end":12874.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12872.517218750003,"end":12872.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12874.54221875,"end":12874.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12874.559093750002,"end":12874.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12874.79534375,"end":12874.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12874.980968750002,"end":12875.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12875.031593750002,"end":12876.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12875.95971875,"end":12877.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12877.12409375,"end":12880.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12880.347218750001,"end":12881.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12881.798468750003,"end":12891.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12884.059718750003,"end":12884.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12891.87284375,"end":12901.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12902.26784375,"end":12907.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12908.44409375,"end":12909.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12910.249718750001,"end":12915.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12915.41346875,"end":12923.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12924.070343750001,"end":12929.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12929.942843750003,"end":12932.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12932.355968750002,"end":12933.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12934.33034375,"end":12941.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12940.70909375,"end":12962.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12957.26346875,"end":12957.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12957.550343750001,"end":12958.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12962.12346875,"end":12965.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12965.684093750002,"end":12969.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12974.745968750001,"end":13017.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13018.047218750002,"end":13021.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13023.734093750001,"end":13023.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13023.750968750002,"end":13024.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13024.03784375,"end":13024.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13026.40034375,"end":13026.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13030.872218750003,"end":13030.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13031.243468750003,"end":13031.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13031.26034375,"end":13042.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13042.80284375,"end":13060.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13060.707218750002,"end":13083.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13083.67409375,"end":13090.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13090.930343750002,"end":13098.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13098.92909375,"end":13107.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13107.51846875,"end":13110.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13110.488468750002,"end":13115.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13116.023468750001,"end":13117.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13117.559093750002,"end":13117.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13117.59284375,"end":13119.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13117.94721875,"end":13126.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13122.16596875,"end":13122.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13126.890968750002,"end":13138.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13138.51784375,"end":13141.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13142.095343750003,"end":13145.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13145.79096875,"end":13146.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13146.58409375,"end":13147.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13147.680968750003,"end":13148.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13149.081593750001,"end":13166.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13166.547218750002,"end":13172.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13173.297218750002,"end":13176.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13176.840968750003,"end":13182.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13182.696593750003,"end":13188.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13187.18534375,"end":13188.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13190.864093750002,"end":13191.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13192.079093750002,"end":13193.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13193.46284375,"end":13194.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13194.72846875,"end":13195.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13195.487843750001,"end":13199.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13200.044093750003,"end":13202.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13204.07721875,"end":13210.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13207.739093750002,"end":13208.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13210.523468750001,"end":13213.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13214.219093750002,"end":13215.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13215.974093750003,"end":13216.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13217.273468750001,"end":13218.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13218.99471875,"end":13225.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13219.09596875,"end":13219.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13219.450343750003,"end":13219.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13221.69471875,"end":13221.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13222.234718750002,"end":13222.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13225.00221875,"end":13225.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13225.06971875,"end":13226.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13226.74034375,"end":13230.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13226.774093750002,"end":13232.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13231.81971875,"end":13232.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13232.579093750002,"end":13232.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13232.74784375,"end":13233.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13233.76034375,"end":13242.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13242.535343750002,"end":13247.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13247.665343750003,"end":13250.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13250.567843750003,"end":13251.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13251.023468750001,"end":13260.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13261.03034375,"end":13273.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13269.24846875,"end":13269.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13273.04534375,"end":13276.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13275.880343750003,"end":13276.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13276.656593750002,"end":13277.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13276.757843750001,"end":13277.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13278.074093750001,"end":13278.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13278.293468750002,"end":13278.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13278.344093750002,"end":13278.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13278.73221875,"end":13283.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13284.250343750002,"end":13288.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13288.367843750002,"end":13291.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13291.30409375,"end":13305.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13294.999718750001,"end":13296.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13299.758468750002,"end":13302.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13306.035968750002,"end":13306.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13307.48721875,"end":13322.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13311.21659375,"end":13311.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13322.77596875,"end":13328.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13328.15909375,"end":13332.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13332.495968750001,"end":13367.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13347.83534375,"end":13348.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13367.59596875,"end":13371.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13372.03409375,"end":13373.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13373.67096875,"end":13376.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13377.40034375,"end":13379.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13380.218468750001,"end":13383.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13384.184093750002,"end":13387.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13387.390343750001,"end":13390.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13391.33909375,"end":13394.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13395.16971875,"end":13395.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13396.637843750003,"end":13398.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13398.81471875,"end":13400.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13401.07596875,"end":13408.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13409.04096875,"end":13410.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13410.77909375,"end":13412.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13412.11221875,"end":13416.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13417.140968750002,"end":13422.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13422.54096875,"end":13425.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13425.39284375,"end":13451.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13426.995968750001,"end":13427.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13432.14284375,"end":13432.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13451.582843750002,"end":13451.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13453.35471875,"end":13457.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13454.08034375,"end":13454.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13456.324718750002,"end":13456.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13457.860343750002,"end":13457.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13458.67034375,"end":13459.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13459.109093750001,"end":13459.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13459.480343750001,"end":13459.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13459.919093750003,"end":13460.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13460.003468750001,"end":13460.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13460.52659375,"end":13460.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13460.864093750002,"end":13467.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13467.141593750002,"end":13471.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13471.664093750001,"end":13477.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13475.089718750001,"end":13480.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13478.65034375,"end":13484.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13484.016593750002,"end":13485.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13484.97846875,"end":13485.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13485.704093750002,"end":13487.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13485.906593750002,"end":13487.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13488.62346875,"end":13491.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13495.96409375,"end":13496.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13496.031593750002,"end":13496.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13497.972218750001,"end":13498.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13498.191593750002,"end":13498.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13498.47846875,"end":13498.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13503.743468750003,"end":13505.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13505.937218750001,"end":13506.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13511.62409375,"end":13521.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13522.32284375,"end":13527.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13527.891593750002,"end":13528.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13529.157218750002,"end":13532.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13532.61659375,"end":13537.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13538.03346875,"end":13541.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13538.15159375,"end":13538.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13542.083468750003,"end":13554.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13555.667843750001,"end":13561.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13561.472843750002,"end":13569.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13569.74159375,"end":13574.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13574.41596875,"end":13585.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13575.64784375,"end":13576.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13576.019093750001,"end":13576.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13578.43221875,"end":13578.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13578.465968750003,"end":13578.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13578.65159375,"end":13578.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13582.195343750001,"end":13582.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13584.777218750001,"end":13587.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13587.797843750002,"end":13592.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13588.675343750001,"end":13589.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13593.687218750001,"end":13596.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13596.74159375,"end":13601.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13602.715343750002,"end":13604.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13602.782843750003,"end":13603.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13603.59284375,"end":13617.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13612.114718750003,"end":13613.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13613.987843750001,"end":13614.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13614.004718750002,"end":13614.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13618.020968750003,"end":13622.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13618.51034375,"end":13619.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13622.965343750002,"end":13624.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13624.61909375,"end":13655.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13628.331593750001,"end":13629.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13629.968468750001,"end":13631.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13656.47909375,"end":13660.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13661.001593750003,"end":13730.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13674.04596875,"end":13674.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13678.56846875,"end":13678.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13730.50971875,"end":13733.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13733.68221875,"end":13747.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13747.418468750002,"end":13754.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13754.57346875,"end":13763.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13763.618468750003,"end":13765.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13766.183468750001,"end":13769.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13769.33909375,"end":13769.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13769.355968750002,"end":13769.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13769.980343750001,"end":13773.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13773.945968750002,"end":13775.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13775.565968750001,"end":13776.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13776.797843750002,"end":13776.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13776.949718750002,"end":13780.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13780.965968750003,"end":13784.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13785.117218750001,"end":13788.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13788.74534375,"end":13793.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13793.68971875,"end":13796.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13796.96346875,"end":13800.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13800.945968750002,"end":13819.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13805.890343750001,"end":13806.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13810.26096875,"end":13810.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13810.277843750002,"end":13810.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13817.16284375,"end":13817.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13819.035968750002,"end":13827.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13824.840968750003,"end":13828.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13829.430968750003,"end":13830.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13829.633468750002,"end":13836.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13835.742218750001,"end":13837.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13836.653468750003,"end":13849.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13844.11221875,"end":13844.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13846.84596875,"end":13848.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13848.972218750001,"end":13849.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13850.102843750003,"end":13852.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13853.22471875,"end":13855.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13855.85721875,"end":13866.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13867.31534375,"end":13874.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13875.077843750001,"end":13877.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13877.457218750002,"end":13878.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13878.689093750003,"end":13881.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13879.97159375,"end":13883.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13884.831593750001,"end":13901.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13885.050968750002,"end":13885.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13901.301593750002,"end":13906.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13901.925968750002,"end":13902.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13905.824093750001,"end":13919.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13910.380343750003,"end":13911.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13911.325343750003,"end":13911.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13918.598468750002,"end":13918.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13918.649093750002,"end":13919.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13919.391593750002,"end":13920.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13920.134093750003,"end":13922.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13923.070343750001,"end":13926.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13926.90096875,"end":13929.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13929.887843750003,"end":13933.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13933.43159375,"end":13936.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13936.789718750002,"end":13938.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13938.24096875,"end":13952.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13952.297843750002,"end":13978.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13988.07284375,"end":13991.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13993.18596875,"end":13993.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13993.523468750001,"end":13996.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13996.83096875,"end":13999.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13999.68284375,"end":14001.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14002.04534375,"end":14002.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14002.500968750002,"end":14002.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14002.652843750002,"end":14003.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14003.985968750003,"end":14021.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14007.563468750002,"end":14010.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14020.55721875,"end":14021.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14021.67096875,"end":14026.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14027.40846875,"end":14029.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14029.804718750001,"end":14034.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14034.25971875,"end":14034.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14034.985343750002,"end":14035.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14035.12034375,"end":14047.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14039.27159375,"end":14039.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14039.305343750002,"end":14039.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14047.101593750001,"end":14047.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14047.472843750002,"end":14051.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14052.383468750002,"end":14054.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14054.324093750001,"end":14054.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14055.52221875,"end":14056.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14057.26034375,"end":14057.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14057.344718750002,"end":14059.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14057.766593750002,"end":14057.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14057.800343750001,"end":14057.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14058.27284375,"end":14058.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14058.67784375,"end":14058.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14058.72846875,"end":14058.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14058.89721875,"end":14058.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14059.555343750002,"end":14062.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14062.94721875,"end":14064.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14064.870968750001,"end":14078.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14069.579093750002,"end":14072.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14078.52284375,"end":14080.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14080.56471875,"end":14085.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14085.94784375,"end":14086.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14086.454093750002,"end":14092.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14087.43284375,"end":14088.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14091.95534375,"end":14098.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14099.110343750002,"end":14113.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14101.624718750001,"end":14101.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14111.00721875,"end":14111.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14112.84659375,"end":14119.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14119.934093750002,"end":14119.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14119.95096875,"end":14120.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14120.254718750002,"end":14139.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14139.67784375,"end":14151.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14151.794093750003,"end":14151.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14151.86159375,"end":14152.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14152.199093750001,"end":14154.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14154.224093750003,"end":14154.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14154.274718750003,"end":14155.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14154.730343750001,"end":14165.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14165.024093750002,"end":14171.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14167.20096875,"end":14167.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14171.68971875,"end":14176.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14176.97159375,"end":14179.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14179.80659375,"end":14180.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14180.29596875,"end":14188.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14187.87284375,"end":14187.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14188.024718750003,"end":14188.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14188.480343750001,"end":14199.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14192.817218750002,"end":14192.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14200.039718750002,"end":14205.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14205.59159375,"end":14225.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14225.43659375,"end":14225.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14225.84159375,"end":14232.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14233.097843750002,"end":14233.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14233.70534375,"end":14238.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14238.98721875,"end":14242.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14242.93596875,"end":14245.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14245.855343750001,"end":14250.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14250.141593750002,"end":14256.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14256.58784375,"end":14261.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14261.59971875,"end":14265.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14266.25721875,"end":14266.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14267.10096875,"end":14268.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14269.19346875,"end":14270.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14270.189093750003,"end":14270.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14270.20596875,"end":14270.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14270.610968750003,"end":14274.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14274.542843750001,"end":14277.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14279.554718750001,"end":14293.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14281.984718750002,"end":14282.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14282.37284375,"end":14282.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14283.250343750002,"end":14283.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14283.452843750001,"end":14283.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14293.66221875,"end":14296.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14296.767218750003,"end":14299.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14299.68659375,"end":14300.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14301.10409375,"end":14302.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14302.74096875,"end":14307.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14307.58409375,"end":14307.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14307.68534375,"end":14307.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14307.769718750002,"end":14307.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14307.921593750001,"end":14307.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14307.972218750001,"end":14308.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14308.292843750001,"end":14308.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14308.360343750002,"end":14310.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14311.212218750003,"end":14313.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14314.199093750001,"end":14322.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14323.058468750001,"end":14324.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14324.03721875,"end":14335.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14335.42784375,"end":14335.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14335.44471875,"end":14337.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14335.79909375,"end":14336.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14337.925343750001,"end":14338.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14339.410343750002,"end":14343.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14343.797843750002,"end":14346.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14346.734093750001,"end":14348.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14348.117843750002,"end":14348.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14349.51846875,"end":14358.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14351.644718750002,"end":14351.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14358.05721875,"end":14358.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14358.25971875,"end":14358.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14360.11596875,"end":14360.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14360.976593750001,"end":14361.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14361.027218750001,"end":14364.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14364.722843750002,"end":14365.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14365.094093750002,"end":14367.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14367.372218750003,"end":14372.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14372.046593750001,"end":14376.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14376.636593750001,"end":14379.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14379.37034375,"end":14383.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14383.62284375,"end":14384.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14385.31034375,"end":14388.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14388.499718750001,"end":14391.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14393.74784375,"end":14394.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14394.642218750003,"end":14394.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14397.13971875,"end":14400.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14401.020968750003,"end":14403.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14404.29471875,"end":14409.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14410.285343750002,"end":14412.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14411.196593750003,"end":14412.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14412.445343750001,"end":14412.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14412.968468750001,"end":14425.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14425.152218750001,"end":14425.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14425.793468750002,"end":14427.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14427.98721875,"end":14429.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14429.691593750002,"end":14431.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14431.868468750003,"end":14433.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14433.94409375,"end":14436.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14437.36971875,"end":14438.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14439.10784375,"end":14440.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14440.137218750002,"end":14442.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14443.140968750002,"end":14445.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14446.094093750002,"end":14447.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14447.74784375,"end":14449.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14449.18221875,"end":14452.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14453.164718750002,"end":14454.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14455.35846875,"end":14459.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14478.03846875,"end":14478.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14478.055343750002,"end":14481.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14481.379718750002,"end":14482.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14486.661593750003,"end":14486.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14486.67846875,"end":14547.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14547.63096875,"end":14548.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14548.440968750001,"end":14552.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14553.01409375,"end":14555.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14555.460968750001,"end":14558.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14559.105968750002,"end":14567.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14567.72909375,"end":14569.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14569.922843750002,"end":14572.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14573.078468750002,"end":14578.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14578.782218750002,"end":14581.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14581.887218750002,"end":14582.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14582.562218750001,"end":14587.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14588.164718750002,"end":14592.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14592.687218750001,"end":14593.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14593.750343750002,"end":14599.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14599.504718750002,"end":14600.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14601.495968750001,"end":14604.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14605.461593750002,"end":14610.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14609.730968750002,"end":14610.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14610.92909375,"end":14612.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14611.418468750002,"end":14612.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14612.464718750001,"end":14616.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14616.88596875,"end":14616.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14616.902843750002,"end":14616.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14616.970343750003,"end":14617.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14617.03784375,"end":14642.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14617.071593750003,"end":14617.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14642.789093750001,"end":14648.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14648.965343750002,"end":14653.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14648.99909375,"end":14649.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14650.804718750001,"end":14653.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14654.04471875,"end":14681.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14665.28346875,"end":14665.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14682.15846875,"end":14688.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14688.790343750003,"end":14689.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14690.29221875,"end":14697.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14699.168468750002,"end":14714.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14714.22096875,"end":14716.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14716.887218750002,"end":14716.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14716.90409375,"end":14716.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14716.97159375,"end":14716.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14716.988468750002,"end":14717.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14717.005343750003,"end":14717.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14717.055968750003,"end":14717.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14717.49471875,"end":14720.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14720.61659375,"end":14731.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14724.059093750002,"end":14724.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14731.230968750002,"end":14731.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14731.36596875,"end":14733.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14732.51346875,"end":14733.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14733.644093750001,"end":14734.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14734.015343750001,"end":14734.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14734.757843750001,"end":14735.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14735.145968750003,"end":14736.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14736.462218750003,"end":14736.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14736.63096875,"end":14736.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14736.968468750001,"end":14789.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14737.05284375,"end":14737.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14789.972843750002,"end":14793.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14793.938468750002,"end":14795.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14795.59221875,"end":14796.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14797.06034375,"end":14797.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14798.12346875,"end":14798.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14799.28784375,"end":14801.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14801.211593750002,"end":14803.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14803.65846875,"end":14817.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14817.715343750002,"end":14819.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14819.234093750001,"end":14821.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14821.259093750003,"end":14826.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14827.38471875,"end":14831.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14831.468468750001,"end":14836.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14837.172218750002,"end":14839.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14840.20971875,"end":14843.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14843.145968750003,"end":14932.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14848.12409375,"end":14848.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14848.309718750003,"end":14848.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14894.024093750002,"end":14894.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14932.583468750003,"end":14932.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14932.769093750001,"end":14933.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14933.91659375,"end":14953.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14953.930343750002,"end":14956.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14956.410968750002,"end":14965.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14962.890968750002,"end":14963.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14963.363468750002,"end":14963.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14964.08909375,"end":14971.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14971.98659375,"end":14974.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14974.180343750002,"end":14986.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14987.34284375,"end":14996.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14996.269718750002,"end":15013.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15013.65096875,"end":15017.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15017.34659375,"end":15020.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15021.160343750002,"end":15033.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15029.918468750002,"end":15030.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15030.509093750003,"end":15030.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15031.94346875,"end":15033.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15034.626593750003,"end":15038.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15039.90846875,"end":15041.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15042.76034375,"end":15047.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15048.109718750002,"end":15051.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15051.88971875,"end":15055.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15057.239093750002,"end":15059.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15060.124718750001,"end":15065.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15068.730968750002,"end":15075.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15075.750968750002,"end":15078.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15078.906593750002,"end":15084.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15084.57659375,"end":15085.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15086.618468750003,"end":15108.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15108.25221875,"end":15112.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15112.63971875,"end":15121.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15121.465343750002,"end":15125.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15125.279093750003,"end":15151.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15152.22846875,"end":15161.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15161.847218750001,"end":15166.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15167.06159375,"end":15170.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15170.95971875,"end":15179.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15179.785343750002,"end":15187.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15188.20596875,"end":15193.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15195.141593750002,"end":15226.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15226.512218750002,"end":15239.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15239.55659375,"end":15273.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15274.53846875,"end":15278.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15280.832843750002,"end":15284.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15285.844718750002,"end":15287.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15290.215343750002,"end":15290.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15291.81846875,"end":15299.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15299.63159375,"end":15303.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15304.49159375,"end":15312.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15312.355343750001,"end":15319.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15320.708468750003,"end":15335.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15335.305343750002,"end":15350.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15350.03721875,"end":15362.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15363.317843750003,"end":15366.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15367.485968750003,"end":15377.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15378.809093750002,"end":15382.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15383.027843750002,"end":15383.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15383.348468750002,"end":15385.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15385.812218750001,"end":15386.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15386.38596875,"end":15386.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15386.402843750002,"end":15386.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15386.43659375,"end":15386.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15386.48721875,"end":15387.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15388.410968750002,"end":15397.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15398.164718750002,"end":15398.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15398.18159375,"end":15402.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15400.98284375,"end":15402.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15405.10034375,"end":15405.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15407.20971875,"end":15408.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15411.63096875,"end":15412.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15413.250968750002,"end":15414.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15415.96784375,"end":15416.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15416.035343750002,"end":15416.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15419.81534375,"end":15422.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15433.905968750001,"end":15442.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15443.01846875,"end":15453.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15453.278468750003,"end":15456.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15459.977843750003,"end":15460.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15461.125343750002,"end":15468.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15473.680343750002,"end":15481.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15474.827843750001,"end":15474.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15474.86159375,"end":15475.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15476.110343750002,"end":15476.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15476.19471875,"end":15478.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15480.86909375,"end":15500.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15500.798468750003,"end":15500.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15501.304718750001,"end":15506.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15506.24909375,"end":15521.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15522.516593750002,"end":15533.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15527.612843750001,"end":15529.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15533.99159375,"end":15534.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15534.261593750001,"end":15536.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15536.337218750003,"end":15559.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15548.520968750003,"end":15548.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15558.780968750001,"end":15562.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15562.071593750003,"end":15585.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15564.062843750002,"end":15564.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15575.723468750002,"end":15575.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15583.469093750002,"end":15583.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15585.527843750002,"end":15587.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15586.75971875,"end":15597.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15597.357218750003,"end":15597.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15597.711593750002,"end":15597.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15597.762218750002,"end":15599.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15599.38221875,"end":15599.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15599.399093750002,"end":15599.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15599.73659375,"end":15599.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15600.90096875,"end":15602.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15602.11596875,"end":15602.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15602.942843750003,"end":15609.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15605.59221875,"end":15606.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15606.452843750001,"end":15606.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15609.321593750003,"end":15609.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15609.574718750002,"end":15650.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15633.570968750002,"end":15634.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15635.460968750001,"end":15635.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15650.31096875,"end":15657.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15657.465968750003,"end":15658.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15658.91721875,"end":15665.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15665.937218750001,"end":15666.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15666.055343750002,"end":15673.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15669.71721875,"end":15670.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15670.206593750001,"end":15670.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15674.003468750001,"end":15678.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15679.234718750002,"end":15694.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15689.933468750001,"end":15689.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15689.984093750001,"end":15690.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15690.034718750001,"end":15690.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15694.624718750001,"end":15702.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15703.112843750001,"end":15707.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15707.095343750003,"end":15710.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15712.191593750002,"end":15713.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15715.634093750003,"end":15715.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15715.65096875,"end":15717.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15717.034718750001,"end":15723.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15717.304718750001,"end":15718.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15718.688468750002,"end":15718.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15726.29909375,"end":15726.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15726.315968750001,"end":15732.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15734.41596875,"end":15745.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15744.50721875,"end":15747.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15747.274718750003,"end":15754.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15751.425968750002,"end":15751.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15751.493468750003,"end":15752.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":15752.235968750003,"end":15752.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15754.699718750002,"end":15765.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15765.75284375,"end":15766.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15766.731593750003,"end":15767.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15768.030968750001,"end":15769.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15770.460968750001,"end":15771.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15772.249718750001,"end":15772.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15776.08034375,"end":15777.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15777.39659375,"end":15786.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15787.58909375,"end":15788.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15788.247218750003,"end":15793.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15793.664093750001,"end":15797.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15797.933468750001,"end":15804.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15843.985343750002,"end":15844.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15844.019093750001,"end":15844.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15844.457843750002,"end":15844.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15844.49159375,"end":15844.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15846.516593750002,"end":15852.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15851.005343750003,"end":15851.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15851.07284375,"end":15851.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15851.376593750003,"end":15851.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15851.680343750002,"end":15852.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":15852.777218750001,"end":15853.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15852.96284375,"end":15853.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15853.266593750002,"end":15853.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15871.626593750003,"end":15874.96784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1763.971,"end":1787.457,"text":"好,繼續開會。現在我們先介紹列席的官員。王國才部長。會計處張新一處長。陸正及道安司黃韻貴司長。公共運輸及監理司林福山司長。"},{"start":1790.56,"end":1794.442,"text":"交通科技及資訊師黃興勛司長統計處劉瑞文處長法制處許鴻達處長綜合規劃師傅桂蘭副司長民航局何淑平局長"},{"start":1820.703,"end":1847.048,"text":"氣象署陳佳萍署長觀光署周永輝署長運營所林紀果所長鐵道局楊振軍局長鐵道局啊?塞車在路上那部長為什麼沒有塞車?"},{"start":1849.02,"end":1872.658,"text":"韓港局葉協榮局長台鐵杜威董事長公務局張順清副局長內政部警政署交通組劉正安組長行政院主計總處公務預算處王淺凱專門委員"},{"start":1881.449,"end":1907.259,"text":"華華部檢察師謝佑君檢察官介紹在場委員廖先祥委員徐富奎委員本日審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案"},{"start":1910.666,"end":1930.286,"text":"及大陸交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及六十三條之二條的條文修正草案。我們現在先請交通部王部長報告。"},{"start":1937.822,"end":1963.787,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士先生。今天就本部1億3年度單位預算凍結案及道路交通管理處罰條例的部分條文修正進行報告。敬請各位委員指教。有關本部1億3年度單位預算解凍的書面包括總共有31案。各項預算均配合本部業務推動包括過境安全、交通環境、"},{"start":1964.727,"end":1987.728,"text":"提升鐵路行車安全、優化飛航服務效能、推展最愛應用、增及公安課來台、提升公共運輸使用率及效益等各種相關建設的經費。本部已經將相關書面報告函報大院。敬請各位委員給予支持。令本部會改善行人第一的狀況在"},{"start":1990.137,"end":2011.332,"text":"去年6月30日,立法院也通過修正道路交通管理處罰部分的條文,特別針對危急行人的部分加重處罰及增加民眾可檢舉的項目。我們同時在去年的航班人行空間改善原則改善"},{"start":2012.593,"end":2028.464,"text":"機車交通環境之原則作法,行人專用或早開實相的設置原則,還要效應周邊人行空間改善參考指引,有四項指引也配合推動。去年合併永續提升人行安全計劃400億,"},{"start":2032.289,"end":2045.721,"text":"來積極來協助地方來改善入口人行安全的環境。那在去年修法以後,雖然在大灣的成績上有顯著的改善,但民眾檢舉停車或臨時停車"},{"start":2049.145,"end":2063.516,"text":"委會記者案件暴增。各界反映已經嚴重影響包括駕駛人的工作權以及民眾的生活,也造成警察機關執法的龐大的負擔。"},{"start":2067.874,"end":2089.954,"text":"我們認為在相關大家所談到實際環境配套還沒有完備前可能衍生很多實務上的問題所以我們有這樣的一個修法本部會廣納各界的意見來擬據道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二的修正草案"},{"start":2092.558,"end":2120.548,"text":"這次修法是以人先以工程代替這個執法那相關的修法是在人行環境跟停車問題改善優化權的前移措施但是雖然我們建議有十項的不開放民眾檢舉但是如果民眾有碰到相關的這些違規的一些狀況也可以打110或是用110APP來報案由警察直接來處理"},{"start":2122.165,"end":2144.54,"text":"那這一部分我們會跟檢證署這邊再協調有相關報案也請他們這個持續來處理那以上兩案的報告接下來請會計處張處長跟應書監理師的林司長就他的內容跟各位委員做一個報告敬請各位委員會議執交謝謝好現在先請會計處張處長來報告解凍案"},{"start":2150.475,"end":2156.88,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士先生關於本部主管113年度共31案的各單位預算的解凍案"},{"start":2158.378,"end":2184.826,"text":"緊究其辦理情形災臣重點二要報告如下:「交通部單位預算有七案為提升民眾用路安全、運輸產業發展需求及大型車輛行駛安全本部以結合車聯網技術等前瞻科技進行智慧交通場域測試對市售國產車進行公開撞擊等安全測試講注業者先期研發及試運行大型車所需八合一整合型安全警示系統"},{"start":2185.486,"end":2195.255,"text":"具以設定驗證標準作為產業發展依據,又會落實風險管理並強化數位防禦任性,每年均就所屬機關辦理資通安全、實地查核作業,並持續辦理各項運具調查,強化收集有關勞動及肇事等運輸安全指標之內涵。"},{"start":2204.693,"end":2229.03,"text":"民航局單位預算機有兩案本部與民航局將持續參照國際民航組織發布之規範事實修正法規並檢查航空業者完成安全管理系統的建置及有效運作強化遙控無人機管理制度及宣導教育積極整備及完善各機場之營運以滿足旅運需求另外落實性別平權等相關措施民航局以邀請"},{"start":2229.95,"end":2245.09,"text":"專家指導各國籍航空建議建立這個制服設計應納入員工及工會意見之機制並於下次制服改版前在現有設計下增加複裝制服作為過渡方式。氣象署單位預算有五案。"},{"start":2246.571,"end":2267.902,"text":"為發揮防災預警效能以及因應人工智慧重點科技發展趨勢擴大再生能源氣象資訊等跨領域層面的應用。氣象署編列預算推動臺灣南部海域地震與海底監測系統的建置計畫,辦理地震海覽鋪設相關工作,建置海峽離岸海象氣象觀測裝,並執行高速電腦"},{"start":2270.763,"end":2275.831,"text":"高速運算電腦、混合運算、人工智慧及機器學習、應用發展等委辦計劃。"},{"start":2277.489,"end":2287.958,"text":"觀光署單位預算有3案。觀光署將以永續與數位雙軸轉型推動低碳生態旅遊及臺灣環島旅遊年為發展重點透過品牌臺灣深耕國際市場魅力臺灣促進產業動能及智慧臺灣落實景區經營等三大政策主頭帶動臺灣觀光整體發展令針對旅宿業值管理也將強化旅宿網查詢功能與使用成效"},{"start":2305.552,"end":2318.797,"text":"主要是將旅客宣導該網站所揭露的旅宿業均為合法同時鼓勵業者提供優質服務並取得相關標章認證揭露於網站以發揮網站行銷優質合法品牌的功效"},{"start":2320.223,"end":2347.342,"text":"運輸研究所有三案為強化交通安全與永續發展運輸研究所將持續透過引進各項先進設備、車聯網、人工智慧、影像辨識、無人機等技術辦理道路安全、海氣向資料收集、港灣建設、運輸部門檢探等領域的創新應用另外達成本部完善人本交通環境的目標推動人本交通運輸研究計畫主要辦理強化人車路、橋樑等安全資能與管理方面的研究"},{"start":2348.163,"end":2359.999,"text":"公路局總共有5案為落實道路交通安全基本法及行政院公車電動化地方創生及空屋防治等政策公路局持續精進各類駕駛訓練、駕駛人訓練、考照與管理制度"},{"start":2363.383,"end":2381.036,"text":"高齡駕駛管理制度、駕照回訓制度等以提高風險、駕駛人法尊觀念及風險意識並辦理公路監理資料庫及資訊基礎設施的升級汰換、組織內部的管理及人才培育、強化運輸業安全管理與監督功能。"},{"start":2382.354,"end":2397.204,"text":"積極推動公車電動化與偏鄉幸福巴士行駛以人為本、行人優先的交通安全文化令除持續與辦理省道與快速公路之建設與養戶外並將協助地方政府公路系統的建設及改善"},{"start":2398.004,"end":2420.36,"text":"鐵道局有三案為防止治安事件發生鐵道局以導入端點偵測及回應系統能及時監控維護資訊安全另為強化鐵路行車安全以加強各林軌工程的監控作業從制度面執行與執行面導入安全管理系統並成立安全管理委員會每月就所詳林軌工程高風險項目進行風險辨識提出防範對策滾動檢討以降低施工風險"},{"start":2428.354,"end":2449.306,"text":"韓港局總統有3案為提升船舶航行安全以啟動強化飲水安全專案、修訂飲水法規加強飲水人在職訓練並持續提升船員專業訓練,另外確保離島基本民行將根據協助地方政府辦理交通船碼頭、旅運設施優化、升級及汰換老舊交通船"},{"start":2449.966,"end":2465.462,"text":"同時也以全面盤點於港內交通船碼頭的設施現況將以提升安全性、優化品質升級及整合動線等指引等目標補助地方政府辦理相關規劃及工程建設。那中上"},{"start":2466.303,"end":2482.938,"text":"本部各項施政計畫均系配合國家發展循序推動。那位應實際業務的需求以上大院的決議事項本部均已提出書面報告如附列這個附錄所列的這個大院議案文書近親懇請委員支持並同意相關經費動資異例各項業務推動謝謝現在請公共運輸及監理師林福山市長報告"},{"start":2496.918,"end":2523.349,"text":"主席、各位委員還有各位女士先生今天應邀貴委員會緊就行政院寒送立法院審議的道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、六十三條、六十三條之二修正草案及相關修法配套措施進行說明並提出本部的處理建議那有關於本次修正草案整體說明部分在去年6月30號新修正處罰條例部分條文施行後"},{"start":2524.569,"end":2552.528,"text":"一百一十二年全年三十日死亡人數較一百一十一年下降四十一人下降百分之一點三三其中包含行人減少十四人下降百分之三點五五但是若以一百一十二年下半年觀察是相較一百一十一年下半年減少一百三十五人下降百分之八點五其中行人減少二十五人下降百分之十點七八"},{"start":2553.768,"end":2569.16,"text":"對道路交通安全改善稀有顯著的成效但是同時因為放寬民眾檢舉的項目及增加違規祭典的項目導致民眾檢舉停車或臨時停車等違規祭典案件數暴增一年內累計"},{"start":2572.311,"end":2587.808,"text":"計點達12點及吊扣兩個月駕駛執照,各界反映以嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權及一般民眾的生活,並造成警察機關執法量很龐大負擔,鑒於民眾檢舉以背離當時彌補警力不足的立法目的。"},{"start":2589.089,"end":2611.741,"text":"違規祭典也因為道路實際環境配套措施尚未完備衍生實務問題,擁有檢討的一個必要。維護道路交通安全及降低違規案件需由中央及地方政府從工程、教育、監理、執法等各面向共同進行改善。道路交通安全基本法也已經在去年12月15日制定公佈,也從今年1月1日"},{"start":2613.467,"end":2641.782,"text":"施行,並以推動制定行人交通安全設施條例,定名各級政府權者以落實提供完善安全的道路通行環境。各地方政府刻意正積極從工程面改善,提供民眾及營業車輛妥適的上下客戶停車或臨時停車及行人空間,希望從源頭來改善以降低各類用路人因道路環境未曾完善而產生的交通違規行為。"},{"start":2643.632,"end":2663.973,"text":"在行人環境及停車或臨時停車問題尚未改善前,經綜合檢討分析交通事故所涉違規行為太陽,區分不同危險程度從有效風險控管的角度,全面檢視民眾檢舉及違規祭典相關規定的合理性,同時為兼顧職業駕駛人工作前及減少因民眾檢舉及違規祭典衍生的爭議。"},{"start":2666.596,"end":2680.311,"text":"交通部廣納社會各界意見檢討修法拟據處罰條例七條之一、六十三條及六十三條之二修正草案。那在第七條之一有關民眾檢舉項目的檢討及修正重點部分"},{"start":2681.934,"end":2707.5,"text":"去年部分條文修正草案中有關於七條之一的修正是增加民眾可檢舉項目13項由原來46項增加為59項增加的可檢舉項目主要是相關注意行人及違規臨時停車或停車的行為那近年來因為智慧型手機行車影像記錄、設備普及民眾檢舉交通違規案件俱增"},{"start":2708.32,"end":2733.273,"text":"也產生特定人針對性跟拍檢舉,產生社會實務上很大的爭議,也背離當時立法民眾檢舉的目的,所以必須要配套來做檢討修正。行政院函請審議的七條之一,就民眾可檢舉之項目,是檢討修正刪除部分可施予勸導不予舉發的違規事項。"},{"start":2735.914,"end":2758.636,"text":"主要是依據95年7月1日施行處罰條例第92條增定輕微違規勸導規定及授權訂定於違反道路交通管理事件統一裁罰基準及處理細則第12條輕微違規得施以勸導名與舉發項目。相關項目系以最高罰款一千兩百元以下為主要基礎。"},{"start":2760.758,"end":2770.369,"text":"言語修正現行七條之一所列項目其最高划還新台幣一千兩百元以下的輕微違規限縮不予民眾檢舉。檢討的項目總共有十項包括"},{"start":2776.307,"end":2785.993,"text":"騎乘機車未依規定戴安全帽划緩500元騎機車打行動電話划緩1000元騎機車駕駛人邊開車邊點煙或抽煙划緩600元倒車未顯示燈光或不注意行人大型車倒車無人在後指引划緩600至1200元那接下來有關於第五項"},{"start":2803.908,"end":2825.308,"text":"第六項跟第七項是有關於這個違規臨時停車的部分。罰款是300到600元。第八、第九、第十是有關於這個違規停車的部分。罰款是600到1200元。那在有關於第六十三條及六十三條之二違規記點檢討及修正重點部分。"},{"start":2826.648,"end":2843.544,"text":"去年施行處罰條例部分修正條文其中修正將原來在處罰條例63條名列的25項記點的項目那依處罰條例修正授權改於裁罰細則第二條中來做規定那並增加為55項"},{"start":2846.451,"end":2856.278,"text":"原來僅當場攔查舉發才予以計點亦修正為進行舉發包括科技執法及民眾檢舉等進行舉發案件均與計點同時又放寬民眾檢舉的一個項目導致整個計點案件量暴增"},{"start":2863.086,"end":2882.282,"text":"那一年內這個累計計點達12點及倒扣駕駛執照兩個月這個已經影響到社會實際的一個這個生活跟這個環境那另外一個部分的話因為進行舉發財政照片或錄影無法得知實際的駕駛人之所以上出現不實陳報駕駛人冒名頂替及計點黃牛等這個亂象"},{"start":2885.444,"end":2892.308,"text":"考量違規紀典累計調控駕駛執照涉及一般民眾駕駛車輛群域外也攸關到駕駛職業駕駛人駕駛的資格及工作權違規行為必須從嚴認定避免及防度規則不易實體審查而衍生的這個亂象"},{"start":2902.934,"end":2927.007,"text":"計點制度因道路環境配套措施尚未完備衍生實務的問題,所以未取得道安及民眾權益的平衡等,交通部參佐社會各界意見以工程改善手段先替代監禮執法手段,在行人環境及停車或臨時停車問題尚未改善之前,引以修正計點項目及執行方式,包括修正第六十三條"},{"start":2929.296,"end":2955.425,"text":"當場舉發案件使予以計違規點數。進行舉發,就是包括科技執法及民眾檢取的案件不予計點。原來現行規定自費參加獎期扣抵違規點數由一年一次兩點為限,提高為一年兩次四點。另外配套63條的修正,第63條之二也配合刪除有關於進行舉發案件違規計點數的規定。"},{"start":2958.649,"end":2986.274,"text":"在這次本次提出條例的一個修法那相關的配套措施部分這次雖然這個提案修法限縮部分輕微違規項目不予民眾檢舉但是不會因此而降低執法強度也不會產生處罰的漏洞各類駕駛人如有違反道路交通管理規定之違規行為均需處罰凡並依情節依條例規定並受道路交通安全講習、祭典、吊扣或吊銷駕駛執照之處分"},{"start":2988.854,"end":3007.629,"text":"為協助地方政府落實改善道路交通環境,將部在去年從四月到臨底也這個陸續函班四項指引,包括行人空間改善原則,改善機車交通環境原則及做法,行人專用早開十項設置原則,"},{"start":3008.59,"end":3034.728,"text":"校園桌邊行人空間改善參考指引提供各縣市政府依據來審視改善轄內的道路交通這個環境另外為貫徹改善行人交通政策的決心行政院在去年5月25日也通過行人優先交通安全行動綱領從工程教育監理及執法四大面向推動19項行動這個方案。更在去年8月"},{"start":3035.849,"end":3063.441,"text":"17日通過更上位的行人交通安全政策綱領來推動道路交通安全基本法建置完整公共運輸系統落實行人交通安全改善等三大精進作為也提出短中長期的執行項目那112年分別在工程面向、教育面向及監理面向、執法面向的各項具體成果就請各位委員做一個參閱"},{"start":3066.516,"end":3081.067,"text":"行政院在去年8月合定永續提升人行安全計劃。計劃集成從113年到116年,4年投入中央補助監會400億元,積極改善入口行人道安"},{"start":3082.668,"end":3105.083,"text":"及其改善路口人行道安全通行環境由點自限層面進行從路口道路四方區域之行人安全設施與人行道建置之人行空間工程改善作為目前已合定799處依照市路口改善案件其中內政部有601處公務局198處目前由各單位積極推動辦理當中"},{"start":3110.427,"end":3116.419,"text":"另外道路交通安全基本法也在今年一月一號制定施行確立我國道路交通安全"},{"start":3117.932,"end":3143.058,"text":"政策方針原則完善我國道路交通安全改善推動制度在道安運作體系方面中央及地方分別設置道路交通安全匯報在中央是由行政院院長召開在地方則由直轄市各縣市政府所長召開以落實中央各機關及地方政府依權者推動道路交通安全工作並就人、車、路、汽車運輸業、交易宣導、執法"},{"start":3145.499,"end":3168.227,"text":"緊急醫療救護保險與研究發展等九大面向訂定基本政策作為跨部會各級政府分層擬定計劃並落實分工執行事務的依據。行政院今年3月7號通過行人交通安全設施條例草案函送大院來審議。那大院也在4月16日三讀通過。"},{"start":3171.133,"end":3191.118,"text":"條例也經明定內政部應會同各目的事業主管機關擬定行人交通安全設施推動計劃地方政府再拒以訂定行人交通安全設施改善計劃每年公布執行情形並搭配蔣誠機制來徹底執行行人用路環境的改善工作"},{"start":3192.452,"end":3219.601,"text":"最後本次修法是在工程系以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段。相關修法系在人行環境及停車環境改善優化之前的權宜措施。交通部跟內政部會持續會同及促請地方政府務必依轄內道安防治的需求從源頭來改善道路交通安全環境。敬請委員會予以支持以上報告謝謝"},{"start":3222.107,"end":3248.153,"text":"現在補充介紹在場委員林國成委員現在要進行詢答先宣告以下的事項詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員方案登記於10點30分截止各委員如果提案"},{"start":3249.013,"end":3259.852,"text":"請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診。暫定10點30分休息10分鐘。中午原則上不休息。"},{"start":3281.046,"end":3296.272,"text":"現在請登記第一號李坤喆召委發言。謝謝主席徐富奎委員。請下王國才部長、林福山司長。有請部長跟司長。"},{"start":3300.919,"end":3327.36,"text":"部長對於交通安全一直是國人密切關心而且不滿意的一個重點那當然交通的安全必須從交通的工程、交通的教育、交通的經理以及交通的執法來著手希望能夠改善整體交通安全國人不滿意的這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":3328.912,"end":3337.806,"text":"我們對於道交條例啊他是攸關國人的一個安全的一個重要的執法的項目而且是一個重要的依據"},{"start":3339.829,"end":3365.689,"text":"我們對於這一次的修法都是以最嚴謹的態度所以在4月3號我依據立院職權行事法第54條召開公聽會邀請各方的團體包括路權團體以及運輸團體社會的專家、學者大家來共同討論然後也依據立院職權行事法第58條在10天內"},{"start":3368.692,"end":3381.784,"text":"應字報告給所有的立法委員以及參與會議的專家學者以及團體這個都已經發出去了我想各位委員以及學者專家團體都已經有閱讀過那"},{"start":3383.846,"end":3399.323,"text":"接下來我們也依照律院職權行使法第59條就是說公聽會是針對特定議案的重要的參考依據我們都是以最嚴謹的態度來處理倒交的條例那我在這邊"},{"start":3400.945,"end":3425.658,"text":"請教一下部長對於道交條例七之一所謂的要取消檢舉的這樣的一個十種樣態你清楚這十種樣態嗎是我了解在我們報告裡面有是好在這十種樣態裡面交通部初步的一個構想是以一千兩百元來作為一個取消檢舉與否的一個依據"},{"start":3426.809,"end":3445.471,"text":"我認為這樣的方式是不負責任的我認為這樣的方式是過於消極而且對於整體的這樣的一個交通安全的這樣的一個推動我認為是有衝擊的我們以一千兩百元來做一刀切"},{"start":3446.676,"end":3471.182,"text":"是不負責任我認為是應該要以危險的程度來做分級的這樣的一個狀況來部長你說明一下跟照有報告就是在我們道路交通管理處罰條例第九十二條裡面事實上它已經有一個規定就輕微規輕微違規嵌倒的這個規定然後它授權的執法就是維護道路交通統一財務的基準跟處理細則"},{"start":3472.242,"end":3487.902,"text":"在這裡面他也是把一些項目在一千兩百元以下在這個部分是警察施以嵌倒免以舉花所以我們當時就是按照道交條例跟這個違反道路交通的這個處理細則裡面去訂這一千兩百元"},{"start":3488.743,"end":3507.39,"text":"那的確在這個總共現在出來這10項裡面我想說包括上次委員所這個召開的公聽會大家有一些想法但是我們當時的依據就是按照這樣的依據來展示部長我就說我們依照一千兩百元來做處理是平易行事是不負責任的"},{"start":3507.87,"end":3522.937,"text":"因為我們必須針對這十種樣態它的危險性以及嚴重的狀況來做分析來做處理我想社會對於這樣的一個處置方式是比較能夠接受的那因為我們這十種樣態在"},{"start":3526.192,"end":3542.456,"text":"公聽會我想不只是陸群團體運輸團體也有不一樣的意見他們認為這十種樣態如果以一刀切的方式他們認為也是過於消極而且是便宜形式的這樣的一個態度認為有幾樣是可以討論的"},{"start":3546.14,"end":3562.029,"text":"報告。這是公聽會大家一個基本的共識。我在這邊除了要求是以做危險性以嚴重程度來做分級的考量的基準之外。我們今天最主要還是詢答。我們都以最嚴謹的態度4月3號"},{"start":3564.19,"end":3582.398,"text":"是召開公聽會那今天是進行詢答那我們會再找時間來做主條的審查那主條審查的時候我希望交通部能夠提出明確針對這十種樣態是否以做分級來做處置或者是這十種樣態會取消"},{"start":3584.912,"end":3605.108,"text":"哪幾個樣態來做一個處理來部長簡單說明一下是這一次的公聽會跟大家表達的意見事實上對於這裡的第一項就是未帶安全帽的這部分因為牽涉到機車的安全還有第十項就是身心障礙專用停車位的違規停車部分"},{"start":3606.108,"end":3625.444,"text":"大家比較有共識認為這個可以排除那我跟委員報告就是說當時我們是依照這個道交條例還有處理細則過去的規定來做當然每一項裡面是可以討論的部長剛才提出這兩項是可以取消的這樣的一個樣態可以討論跟考慮我認為必須更進一步的針對這十種樣態"},{"start":3632.409,"end":3646.274,"text":"必須更積極地討論出相關的處理的方式。希望在下次我們主條審查的時候提出更明確的一個版本。部長我們對於交通安全我想在"},{"start":3647.898,"end":3674.494,"text":"之前我具體的要求交通部屢次的宣誓要推動道路的交通安全那我認為口號是不夠的必須要有積極的作為以及硬性的目標所以當初我要求逐年減少5%的這樣的一個車禍的死傷的比例那很可惜部長"},{"start":3675.916,"end":3676.376,"text":"報告報告報告"},{"start":3697.657,"end":3698.077,"text":"報告告告告"},{"start":3722.629,"end":3739.3,"text":"這些死亡的案件都是一個不幸的個案也都是交通部的責任我們如果以這不幸車禍交通意外事故死亡的來做一個分類的話行人大概是400人機車騎士2000人"},{"start":3743.74,"end":3772.226,"text":"自行車也很嚴重欸自行車大概是250人客車大概是160人左右所以我們對於整體的交通安全啊不只是道交條例的一個處理啊必須交通工程相關的交通教育交通的監理交通的一個執法都必須要全面的去做處理啊部長我們的成績啊是國人不滿意啊而且啊是不及格來讓你簡單說明一下"},{"start":3773.266,"end":3774.947,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":3799.087,"end":3819.043,"text":"這個黃師長也是在下降中我想說過去在執法、工程、教育方面已經慢慢有成效那我們就往這個方向持續來進行部長我們現在已經依據道路交通安全基本法那行政院在1月25號也通過了道路交通安全的綱要計劃"},{"start":3820.484,"end":3837.857,"text":"然後我們對於行人的道路交通安全設施條例在今日之前也在立法院三讀通過但是我們對於整體相關交通安全的改善一步一步的在做推動但是這個每年減少5%的這個成績"},{"start":3839.818,"end":3868.677,"text":"沒有做到我想這是部長在離開交通部之前一個最大的遺憾當然在過去這一段期間你擔任次長以及部長的這一段期間也解決了相關的不管是相關的工會的議題以及整體的一些交通的重大議題的一個處置你也有一定的成績但是對於交通安全這個成績是不及格的部長能讓你最後做一個說明"},{"start":3870.238,"end":3895.767,"text":"我想說去年的下半年剛才談到8.5%新人是10.78%是一個好的開始等於說去年的下半年包括行政院各部位都動起來今年也開始有點成績我想說這部分就是持續來進行的確我當部長裡面道安是我覺得最遺憾的一件事情我就覺得真的要很大幅的下降"},{"start":3896.747,"end":3922.533,"text":"那那這邊我想說這個一棒接一棒然後這個現在已經有下半年已經好的一個開始那我期待尤其現在是由院長主持的大安會報我想說至少在過去這段在去年這段時間我把整個制度把它建好了包括經費4百億的經費包括內政部談到現在安全設施條例包括重量大安會報已經做好了"},{"start":3922.973,"end":3933.599,"text":"那以而打底但是過去幾年我提前沒有做好啊我我這樣的一個做好在去年下半年已經有一個成效那我希望繼續往前走好謝謝部長好謝謝謝謝現在請徐富奎委員發言"},{"start":3946.764,"end":3953.853,"text":"謝主席。有請王部長跟我們警政署的郵主長。請警政署署長。委員長、區委員長。"},{"start":3958.836,"end":3978.664,"text":"呃不讓裝早安哈因為剛剛在我們的醫護報告有提到所謂一個當時針對一個交通違規檢舉的制度是應該要減輕我們警察從來一個負擔啊哈有提到這個部分但是也造成了我們所謂一個大量的檢舉達人的出現那造成所謂一個違規案件跟檢舉案件大量的出現哈"},{"start":3979.264,"end":4003.873,"text":"那反而造成我們警察同仁對這些違規案件要進行所謂一個大量的審核。那我想請教部長還有組長這樣的做法到底是幫忙警察同仁還是造成警察同仁的負擔。組長請回答。報告委員有關民眾檢舉的這個制度如果談他的緣起是在民國七年的那一次"},{"start":4005.213,"end":4031.006,"text":"行政院送過來的修法但是那次修法一直到85年12月31日才通過86年的4月1日施行但是在長久以來因為當時的數位的這個採證器材沒有那麼充足如果以前要檢舉違規停車的話他一定是要裝軟片拍了之後"},{"start":4032.106,"end":4059.623,"text":"衝洗影片衝洗出來的還要一的去洗照片所以一直到大概一百一百零二年左右開始有數位的這一些受證器材之後才逐漸的慢慢的慢慢的增加然後到一百零六年的時候大概每年有一百萬件那一到一百一十年的時候那就已經增加的到五百六十萬件所以在整個過程裡面"},{"start":4060.343,"end":4087.583,"text":"並沒有在檢討說民眾檢舉這一些案件一直到一百一百一十一年四月三十號那一次施行的條文才把所有都可以檢舉的這些案件把它濃縮為總共46項就41項的動態違規跟五項的這個靜態違規但是它的量還是蠻大的比如說在民國在一百一十一年的時候民眾檢舉大概是五百"},{"start":4089.537,"end":4102.995,"text":"五百三十萬件左右但是在去年修法之後在一百一十二年整年就有八百多萬件的檢舉案件那檢舉如果說"},{"start":4104.316,"end":4130.004,"text":"對於交通安全有以及交通這些有改善有幫助的話我知道大家都很辛苦不過就是說我們還是希望這個未來執法上面能更加的謹慎那部長我想就是之前我們召委召開所謂一個立法院的一個公聽會裡面現在比較大的問題是所謂職業駕駛的一個反彈尤其我們台北市的汽車駕駛職業公會說職業駕照被調扣兩個月已經高達"},{"start":4133.625,"end":4160.288,"text":"兩千五百位及滿六點的也高達一萬五千位那其實現在所謂的職業駕駛這個是所謂一家人的生計問題那針對這個部分我們當然我們對於用路人的安全我們站在一定安全的考量我們是本席這邊跟我們很多的委員我們都支持這個嚴格執法但有沒有可能針對職業駕駛跟一般的駕駛這個違規記點的制度做一個分流的一個機制"},{"start":4161.826,"end":4186.654,"text":"現在是沒有。現在就是用1200的這個所謂的清違規不接受檢舉的這個方式而且我們現在的祭典那個民眾檢舉也不祭典我們這次修法也是這樣我想說除了職業駕駛事實上一般民眾也反映很多不只職業駕駛所以想說一個法令好像也沒辦法去分職業駕駛跟一般駕駛我們這次是通用一次來檢討這樣"},{"start":4188.922,"end":4206.137,"text":"那這部分還是請我們例入一下因為畢竟這個很多的生機問題要考量這一次這個就是有很多是在職業駕駛還有一般民眾意見都這一次把它放到裡面那我想昨天我們在業務大群部分也有很多的委員針對所謂的一個落實高風險路段有提出質詢"},{"start":4207.478,"end":4224.587,"text":"那針對這部分我們調查相關的資料發現台鐵公司跟高工局對於4月10號這個普悠瑪這個事件的那個看法不一致。那部長是不是認為我們針對我們交通單位是不是應該做一個統整的一個橫向聯繫這個部分?"},{"start":4225.888,"end":4254.494,"text":"這沒問題 這個我事實上跟公路局還有台鐵公司也討論過因為他這一次的落實是在公路的邊坡掉到鐵路所以我想說在整個未來這一個防落實的防患機制應該考慮更廣一點所以我想這部分我也跟這個局長跟董事長談過他們必要的話在台鐵雖然他自己的邊坡沒問題但是也需要加設這個這個落實的一些相關系統"},{"start":4255.819,"end":4280.817,"text":"因為我們台鐵公司有在今年說會增加38處的一個警示的一個裝置但是本期還是要提醒我們交通部跟我們台鐵公司其實我們包含屏東還有好幾個縣市都有一個叫做土石流的一個危險那除了這個落石警告之外那針對土石流跟相關的一些危險的部分有沒有做怎麼樣一個安全的一個警示"},{"start":4282.818,"end":4297.267,"text":"報告,有關於屏東縣禁其實我們也有提出落實告警有關於其他邊坡的偵測我們現在也是有制度這個部分我們會再去加強"},{"start":4298.9,"end":4323.518,"text":"根據本席掉月的相關資料我們全台灣總共有1700多個土石流潛勢的流域其中只有86處有一個告警系統一定是不足夠的那我想我們交通部不能頭痛一頭腳痛一腳那未來是不是應該針對全台的一個邊坡進行全面的盤點強化我們所謂安全的一個專案的一個計畫"},{"start":4324.138,"end":4349.585,"text":"好他們我想這部分請他事實上這些地震不只做花蓮我們事實上在橋樑行捲是全國全國的我想如果有必要的部分我想就加做這應該要盡快尤其我們現在那個汛期要來臨齁這個紅胎啊好大雨一來我想造成土石的危害齁這個有時候造成這個很多的事故啦麻煩交通部這邊盡快能夠來辦理"},{"start":4350.828,"end":4357.272,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":4381.01,"end":4405.126,"text":"是,這次的確有一點點低估了所以的確有這個7個縣市沒有發布相關訊息那這個部分我們已經做了相關的檢討並且也提出了一些改善方案下個禮拜會有這個召集了學者專家針對所有相關的改善方案去做比較深入的討論然後未來期待我們在未來在做這個預估的時候能夠更加精準"},{"start":4406.947,"end":4423.283,"text":"我還是要提醒一下因為上次我們也有質詢有提到我們因為預算的關係那個海底電纜建置的部分長度有縮短所以預報的時間可能慢了10秒這個是非常大的一個問題部長這部分能不能再支持我們的預算"},{"start":4425.485,"end":4436.817,"text":"有關海嵐南部海嵐這件事情的確中間的波折非常非常的多那當然現在我們報了二次的修訂計畫目前南部海嵐這邊的預定的這個長度從800公里縮短為200公里那從6個這個偵測點縮減為3個偵測點"},{"start":4442.122,"end":4470.761,"text":"那相關的這個在地震的預警上面大概還可以做到10到15秒海嘯的預警大概可以做到20分鐘那如果我們考慮石川縣的相關的這個地震他們實際發生地震海嘯疏散預警的的狀態來看這個時間大概還能夠能夠達到這個我們在特別在南部地區所需要的預警的效果這部分我們還是要盡快辦理了部長這部分是不是支持一下我們的預算是好好謝謝"},{"start":4472.844,"end":4490.671,"text":"好謝謝徐委員發言完畢現在請林俊憲委員發言謝謝主席本席邀請我們交通部王部長王部長"},{"start":4496.247,"end":4521.977,"text":"部長好部長我們重視交通行車安全尤其本時我們非常注重大車的造勢你知道在連續假期親民連續假期又發生了大車的死亡車禍你知道嗎我知道4月7號在台64線一部大卡車連續追撞6部車輛造成一位重機的女乘客當場死亡"},{"start":4523.373,"end":4541.387,"text":"那為什麼會發生原因呢?根據這位駕駛啊,造勢的大卡車駕駛他說啦,因為剎車失靈。那大車造成的車禍啊,非死即傷啦。那每一次只要有大車造勢啊,都是非常恐怖的車禍。"},{"start":4543.174,"end":4558.961,"text":"所以本席也在一直希望交通部你要針對大型車輛的行車安全從這個地方政府要努力看怎麼樣來減少這樣的不幸事件我們來看看"},{"start":4561.36,"end":4581.72,"text":"大型車輛死傷人數從來沒有減少過。花了那麼多錢所謂的交通部把他列為重大的施政目標。大型車輛的死傷人數如果以97年到現在增加的快要近一倍了。"},{"start":4582.699,"end":4610.275,"text":"死傷人數從8239人到去年的13599人增加了百分之六十幾啦。六十五啦。包括這幾年大型車輛的肇事件數增加了百分之38啦。受傷人數增加超過4成啦。死傷人數也是啦。那為什麼會肇事啊?我們檢討過很多啦。"},{"start":4611.38,"end":4618.721,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案：一、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請"},{"start":4638.951,"end":4662.163,"text":"我想那個在過去就是他的這個事節被阻擋後世沒有看清楚那是4月嘛那你們在這外面進度嚴重落後啦到今年4月啊你在裝了800台啦對不對好我現在講的不只是這樣子啦那到底還有沒有什麼其他原因我就舉這一次的連續駕駛這個死亡車禍啦這駕駛說他是煞車失靈"},{"start":4668.268,"end":4680.897,"text":"負責你有沒有看過大車如果發生車禍啊,一疊疊、一疊疊拗甘蔗,你有看過嗎?結果他車頭煞住了,但是他後面拖的車或者是貨櫃,他會打折,好像甘蔗折斷一樣。所以他們都說就像你一樣拗甘蔗,像甘蔗一樣折斷,為什麼?為什麼會有這種狀況?"},{"start":4692.643,"end":4703.455,"text":"會不會是煞車系統真的是有問題啊我們什麼原因都檢討過了啊檢討駕駛啦檢討交通安全工程啦檢討視野視野輔助系統那你知道為什麼車禍啊死傷人數啊所有的數字都不斷的增加那其中啊"},{"start":4714.81,"end":4727.398,"text":"我來跟你探討這個煞車系統會不會真的有問題因為每一次車禍都會看在看見那種大型車輛阿他會形成一種很奇怪的狀態尤其最近阿常發生大車距去撞護欄阿自己失控阿為什麼會被騙你知道嗎因為他前車頭的煞車跟後面他拖的東西的煞車阿沒有配合啦"},{"start":4738.752,"end":4760.299,"text":"前面煞住了,但後面的煞車系統有可能是刺激啦。煞車沒有像車頭那麼好。所以車頭凍會掉,你會怕它凍會掉,它就會倒下。那就很危險啦。它會打折,那個像折乾這個一樣,它就橫擋住其他車道啊。你知道嗎?老闆,你覺得我們現在還有你檢查煞車系統?大車還有你檢查?"},{"start":4764.427,"end":4788.715,"text":"我跟委員報告一下那個煞車系統的部分大概這個分兩塊第一塊的部分就是說不管車頭或者是後面的這個紙車出來的時候他的煞車系統就必須要符合車輛安全檢測基準的規定那這一塊的話就是剛剛委員有提到一個這個部分我們在這個應該是97年的時候就是這個前後車頭跟這個尾車都是這個都要符合ABS跟動態煞車的部分"},{"start":4789.995,"end":4793.36,"text":"經理站驗車有沒有在驗煞車系統?沒有啦沒有在驗煞車系統啦車輛肇事啊"},{"start":4807.469,"end":4830.464,"text":"你們檢討原因啦我看你們提供的那個資料啊都像變換車道啦沒有保持安全距離啦或者駕駛精神不集中有沒有從來沒有檢討車輛本身會不會有可能出問題我今天提出這點就是說你已經找遍了那麼多原因啦你都沒辦法改善啦大車的行車安全啦他煞車系統會不會有問題你問他現在煞車系統是怎樣用第一個啦"},{"start":4836.636,"end":4837.917,"text":"請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院"},{"start":4864.724,"end":4890.886,"text":"那會不會啦他這些組成部分啦我舉個例給你看幾個重要的零件啦煞車的主要成分清單有家啦1234567啦那江湖傳言啦有些ABS的大車的煞車系統喔會稍微減一兩件零件啦尤其像那個駐車法還有快放法有的ABS系統啦全部都倒啦"},{"start":4892.33,"end":4917.507,"text":"還是說他磨損以後他就沒有沒有更新啊我跟你看啊部長你看這張照片哦我們的大車在驗車哦他就這樣四張照片哦這樣就算過關啊到底他車上裝了什麼系統哦出場的時候啊以一台檢驗車過關然後以後啊就從來不會再驗到煞車系統"},{"start":4922.458,"end":4924.58,"text":"稍後稍後稍後稍"},{"start":4952.824,"end":4980.348,"text":"這一個如果發生事故一般檢查檢查會不會了解這個煞車到底有沒有問題如果發生事故的話有沒有因為從來沒有在檢驗你造出車輛的煞車啦一般都是好像酒駕啦看酒駕後有沒有問題你們有沒有查過煞車系統就是說ABS它的整個所有的煞車系統裡面有減少零組件的"},{"start":4981.67,"end":5002.637,"text":"跟委員報告一下你提到的這個部分的話就是我們現在就是說大概之前有這個就是說聽到業界有謠傳這樣子的部分所以整個檢測報告裡面要登記的項目然後來申請審驗審驗機構應該要查核的部分都已經有做一個調整修正那剛剛委員提到事務上就是說來我一個實際的問題齁來我再給你們兩萬參考後來交通部有開一個會啦針對這個煞車系統你們有開一個會"},{"start":5010.439,"end":5021.014,"text":"車安中心認為要有檢驗啦。副委員都同意啦。你跟我們報在這個會議頂頭的人都同意啦。三到四都要檢查啊。我們就沒消息。"},{"start":5022.386,"end":5028.868,"text":"這個會議是去年喔。2023年3月連續開了兩場。4月也開會。我是要幫你們找肇事原因啦。我要看結果啦。大車的肇事件數逐年增加。死傷人數也增加。"},{"start":5052.91,"end":5069.48,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":5069.77,"end":5097.597,"text":"好,那個跟委員報告第一個當然是我覺得駕駛也有關係第二個是您談的車輛但是如果在這個會議裡面談到在檢驗要把它納入我想這部分我要了解一下為什麼後續後續沒有動作因為我再了解一下如果要的話我是覺得這部分很重要但是他們的相關檢驗車的單位有沒有準備好我實際上有問題啦我們主席已經站起來了謝謝部長謝謝局長請問這部分你要落實啦好不好好謝謝"},{"start":5099.329,"end":5115.526,"text":"好謝謝現在請廖先祥委員發言好謝謝昭偉那一樣請部長請王部長"},{"start":5117.683,"end":5142.485,"text":"謝謝部長其實在這個今天當然我也是想請教道交條例啦昨天我剛剛聽到軍縣委員的這個詢問啦我自己本身心有戚戚焉啦所以我也想補充一下其實我在我自己本人在高速公路曾經發生過被追撞的事件那就是在隧道前那可能因為燈光你還怎麼樣那反正就是大概就是大概在100左右的時速走嘛然後走走突然前面那台車是靜著的狀態"},{"start":5143.806,"end":5147.568,"text":"稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍後稍"},{"start":5173.078,"end":5173.098,"text":"報告"},{"start":5189.761,"end":5208.556,"text":"那今天回到這個道交條例喔那其實部長應該也非常清楚我的立場啦那其實我們在院會的總質詢也討論過嘛那時候部長有說那個我們警察單位每次我們都會說這個警察單位可以來附和我們的檢舉嘛不會降低執法的強度嘛我也去內政委員會問過我們那個"},{"start":5210.658,"end":5213.08,"text":"您會期待您會期待民眾檢舉之後你自己本身是檢舉人您期待你幾分鐘檢舉之後幾分鐘警察可以到場"},{"start":5228.431,"end":5244.197,"text":"報章講不出來啊。他不敢講一個數字嘛。因為警察他有很多房東的業務嘛。其實檢舉交通違規是應該是排序到比較後面的。我們訓練一個警察我也不期待說訓練的一位警察在警教訓練之後結果他很多的業務都是在檢舉交通都是在出勤這個取締交通違規"},{"start":5244.977,"end":5261.848,"text":"我們應該是賦予警察更重要的社會安全的一個責任嘛那我們現在把這個檢舉制度取消我不認為是對於警察的業務的降低啦那個勤務的降低有幫助啦畢竟你出勤花的時間你可以在內部處理很多件的這個網路的一個檢舉啦那"},{"start":5265.19,"end":5292.125,"text":"這個當然道路交通的改革啦一定是循序漸進啦那或許在一開始的時候我們走得太快了這個民間社會他沒有辦法接這個有一些反彈的聲浪所以說我們在去年的時候也有調整過一次了嘛就是在一般的紅黃線已經沒有辦法接受民眾檢舉了其實在那一次的調整路權團體的反彈聲浪並沒有那麼的大嘛對不對並沒有像這一次反彈那麼大那也了解我們社會的交通的一個"},{"start":5292.785,"end":5292.805,"text":"委員會議。"},{"start":5302.402,"end":5325.728,"text":"這個我自己開車也會違規但是在違規的時候我們駕駛人會有怎樣的一個心態有黃線的地方我們一定是先停黃線嘛有黃線的地方我們先停黃線沒有黃線的地方那黃線啊大家休停一下大家平常你你我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我"},{"start":5326.896,"end":5327.777,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":5351.798,"end":5369.11,"text":"有更高的交通安全的因素或已經侵犯到其他族群的一個通行的安全了所以說這次的反彈才會那麼大嘛那我也包括過剛剛我們趙薇講的我們用1200來做一個區分那確實是比較粗糙老師講實相我也不是說都不能接受啊你說這個"},{"start":5370.967,"end":5392.191,"text":"安全帽沒戴安全帽說真的沒戴安全帽你影響到的安全是你自己你自己要把自己暴露於這麼危險的交通環境中說實在那是你的事情說實在那是你的事情那但是你在交叉處這個入口處停車或者是在連行道你就已經侵犯到有在更危險的情況下嗎"},{"start":5392.811,"end":5417.042,"text":"所以說當然我這可能有些話已經跟部長討論過了那在後續的審查我也會有我的立場那包括過第1年度上次在公聘會因為發生大地震部長不在嘛第2年度是我認為可以討論嘛因為這個很容易就被針對駕駛的工作權益他被盯上了我個人思維我跟你一天你可能就GG了對不對跟你一天你就掰掰了你就被吊罩了嘛對不對那"},{"start":5417.702,"end":5443.728,"text":"因為這個責任也不一定在駕駛而是店家沒有提供足夠的這個停車空間給駕駛所以我認為祭典支柱是可以調整的但是我們在循序漸進做交通改革的時候我們應該是在引導式的你在不能不而歸的情況下你應該要先去挑比較不會影響到大家的停車的空間包括你也不要去併排嘛我們應該引導他所以說在如果說這一次我們直接取消的話"},{"start":5445.509,"end":5462.603,"text":"這個檢舉的項目的時候我們可以說是回到了原點那我認為保持山的狀態應該是一個比較有引導式的方式讓駕駛在逼不得已回歸的時候也要讓駕駛注意哪些地方真的是你沒辦法停車的時候你也不要去那邊停車"},{"start":5464.145,"end":5484.107,"text":"我個人的理想那包括記點制度你說民眾檢舉那當然我持開放太多那有一些動態的或是比較危險的違規那可能還是要有保留因為這些警方沒有辦法去做檢舉那包括你說檢舉打了一天檢舉了幾百件這個當然也可以限縮啊這個都實名制的"},{"start":5485.188,"end":5510.599,"text":"我們當然如果說這部分造成警察或是社會很大的一個反感的話我們其實很簡單實名制我們去去獻出的一個量就好了而不是說現在的方案直接把原本的推行往要往前走的地方回到回到原點啦那最後的一點時間啊就是我們這個在發生行人事故的時候我們應該有統計哪個年齡層的發生事故的比例最高嗎應該有嗎"},{"start":5511.92,"end":5511.94,"text":"報告"},{"start":5533.932,"end":5545.859,"text":"價食啊,那行人有時候真的也是要負擔一部分的責任,他有沒有守交通安全,他們有一個防衛行走的一個比如說防衛價食嗎,那行人也要有保護自己的一個概念,那其實在地方上都會有很多"},{"start":5546.963,"end":5575.239,"text":"嗯...以清北市政府來講會有很多的地方的老人共餐、重陽街的活動或是其實很多地方性的活動都是長輩會去參加的那其實地方政府都會請一些消防單位、環保單位去做現場的宣導政府也希望說有時候辦個活動錢都花了我們應該有政策宣導的一個目的性在而不是說大家去那裡可能拿起來便當領個餐盒就回家嘛對不對錢花下去要有效益那我們監理單位有沒有"},{"start":5576.7,"end":5596.292,"text":"這有沒有辦法就是後續針對這些高齡者的族群我們透過地方舉辦的活動我們可以去主動去詢問那我們在相關的活動去做一個宣導讓我們的長輩也應該要有一個安全行走的一個觀念而不是說大家絕對不會同意行人絕對是最大的一定是一旦互相尊重大家都在走交通安全那這部分部長怎麼看是好"},{"start":5597.333,"end":5620.831,"text":"第一個就是去年雖然我先前面的問題去年雖然我們有處理那個是一個很臨時性的處理那因為今天要送到這個立法院來修稿我們必須系統性的那我剛才談到一千兩百元是在我們處罰條例九十二條跟我們的事情細則裡面有規範這個叫做不宜舉花他已經有了說明就用這樣的一個基礎來做系統性的那當然"},{"start":5621.671,"end":5648.459,"text":"實相裡面要不要改我想我尊重這個委員大家討論的結果那現在高齡者事實上去年那個新人死亡380是第一年來贏最低了事實上去年有一定的效果死亡但是我們大概有1600個那個陸老師那個委員聽到這個是我們在每一年都是找找很多人訓練去老人家的活動地點去做一個宣導這幾年來我感覺有一些成果但是的確"},{"start":5649.159,"end":5649.459,"text":"謝謝廖謙祥委員"},{"start":5675.52,"end":5697.714,"text":"在此先做一個宣告。等一下蔡吉昌委員、何清純委員、魯明哲委員發言完畢之後,我們會休息10分鐘。請各黨團助理告知在後面要發言的委員。本日有委員提出臨時提案。"},{"start":5699.119,"end":5723.858,"text":"以本會的往例在登記諮詢的本會委員發言告於段落後要來做處理那稍後我們也會在魯明哲委員詢答完畢之後休息10分鐘然後在休息10分鐘之後開會的時候隨後要立即處理臨時提案也請黨團助理來告知貴黨的一個委員"},{"start":5726.26,"end":5738.808,"text":"好,現在請蔡其昌委員發言。謝謝主席。請部長。請王部長。"},{"start":5745.675,"end":5768.708,"text":"部長早部長那個首先第一個題目我想來討論一下那個我們海線的鐵路的這個雙軌劃那今年年初已經核定了嘛那本席想說利用質詢這個機會再一次來就交交通部接下來的程序是我們會進入這個中規跟西部設計那這個時程大概"},{"start":5769.648,"end":5787.665,"text":"預計的狀況大概我現在簡單講一下就是說海線雙軌核定但是我們要跟現在的這個海線高價化做一個整合對對對所以他們大概把這一個東西做一個討論對那後續這個海線過以後就是做綜合規施程是不是來我請局長來"},{"start":5788.986,"end":5801.413,"text":"跟委員報告一般我們鐵路的這個中規作業大概需要15到18個月左右那目前因為剛合定我們正在做招標的準備作業所以確確的期程一旦確定會跟委員報告"},{"start":5802.472,"end":5823.182,"text":"因為我想部長、局長都很清楚本席長期對於海線的雙軌化其實非常的關注而且過去八年我們不斷不知道開過多少次會議那這個事情的重要不只是只有本席選區的問題海線的雙軌化是讓整個台鐵的運量過去三線都是爆滿的"},{"start":5823.982,"end":5824.002,"text":"報告"},{"start":5846.812,"end":5866.551,"text":"所以這麼多年來的爭取努力我們也完成了可行性評估本席也是按照程序不會提特別條例要求你們多少之內要做好沒有那本席不斷的只是督促要求做一個立法委員的這個權利底下要求你們要盡速要趕快那你們不快本席就罵"},{"start":5867.251,"end":5887.725,"text":"你們快我就給你們鼓勵所以現在總算已經可行評估做完完成而且馬上要進入中規但我們又卡到了一個高價化的問題也就是本席過去啊本來在林部長擔任林市長的時代我們所提的是海線是鐵路雙軌高架是一個案子"},{"start":5888.385,"end":5907.673,"text":"後來在幾年前本席覺得這個雙軌化跟高價化如果在同一個案子的情況底下因為高價化依照規定涉及地方政府要部分負擔所以也因為地方政府如果不願意出這個錢那高價化就會一直卡住所以我們把它切開來雙軌歸雙軌、雙軌高價歸雙軌高價所以也因為如此我們才可以得以在這個時間點完成雙軌化的評估"},{"start":5916.478,"end":5918.011,"text":"但現在又面臨到捷運南線"},{"start":5919.723,"end":5946.125,"text":"會穿過台鐵所以我們勢必有一段他可能會涉及到高價但是這個只要涉及到高價又要地方政府出錢所以本席的結論是如果台中市政府這麼多年來他還是不願意出錢那本席會要求站在海線鄉親的立場我會要求說雙軌化你一定不能被耽擱啦就雙軌化不能因為一直等待"},{"start":5946.966,"end":5968.376,"text":"沒有效率的地方政府或者持不出錢的這個地方政府不重視這個海線雙軌高架的地方政府結果讓我們的雙軌化受到耽擱這件事也是本席不能夠接受的所以你們一定要有一個時間跟地方政府做最有效率的溝通要做就要做一個月啦要不然我們雙軌不能停不能雙軌"},{"start":5972.284,"end":5983.17,"text":"立法院行政院通過了就為了等地方政府一拖再拖這個是鄉親不能夠接受的所以如果地方政府堅持不願意出這個錢"},{"start":5985.489,"end":6004.731,"text":"我們的雙軌化不能被耽擱影響。是這樣有沒有問題?是,我剛剛跟蔡委員長報告的確這個我們過去的雙軌的確被台中的海線的高架還有大清烏日這個所耽擱一段時間那現在我們覺得沒辦法等所以直接這個核定這個雙軌"},{"start":6006.112,"end":6031.353,"text":"那現在原來他是用三手線現在會分大清屋次還有包括海線還有這個另外就是彩虹線切三個段一岸變三岸我們現在看起來就是說現在問題應該大清屋次跟海線這個應該都沒有問題但是的確台中市政府提到要中央前路負擔因為這個包括高雄包括北部幾乎都按照現在遊戲規則在走"},{"start":6032.714,"end":6051.214,"text":"所以我們是期待就是說趕快確定啦確定以後就是可以剛才談到了不管跟藍線的界面跟這個雙軌的界面就可以趕快建立起來這樣部長現在目前啊如果中央全額負擔大概全台灣有多少縣市等著中央全額負擔的高價化這個這個很多"},{"start":6053.737,"end":6081.389,"text":"很多你有沒有算過這個預算大概幾兆或者幾千億現在那個各個地方非常多比如說有的是高價有的是這個地下比如說桃園他要負擔很多錢嘉義現在做也要後遣那個叫立體化對對那個都是立體化這個部分是大家都包括嘉義現在在施工那每個都回到說不要出錢對所以這個沒有政黨考量嗎對沒有就一致嘉義市嘉義縣還嘉義市"},{"start":6083.069,"end":6110.984,"text":"欸兩個都有啊都有嘛所以所以不會因為嘉義縣是民進黨執政所以你就同意嘛不會嘛吼對所以這個一定要對外說明清楚啊就是因為我們必須要這個預算必須要合理化啦地方政府對於每一個縣市政府他要立體化就是高價或地下他要進行專業可行甚至未來營運的效率的評估嘛對不對所以我們希望中央地方分別來負擔嘛"},{"start":6112.085,"end":6137.699,"text":"那這個也是馬總統時代通過的辦法嘛是是好所以呢我想這個要對外說明清楚所以本席還再一次強調海線的鐵路這個雙軌化不能因為地方政府不出錢在高價化問題上不出錢而導致雙軌化受到延誤這個我想我再一次強調好這個沒有問題啦好我們現在都分開個別就要再走對對就是我也贊成雙軌高價啦我不是反對我很贊成"},{"start":6138.579,"end":6157.984,"text":"但是不可以因為一個地方政府他持不出錢這個憤死抵抗所以我們的雙軌化就因為這樣被耽擱了這個不行好那第二個問題我想昨天我有提到這個光光的問題部長去年疫情前我們的高峰是1000萬對不對"},{"start":6159.982,"end":6176.64,"text":"這個英鎊接近一千兩百萬不好意思超過一千萬一千兩百萬嘛187對那去年是多少648那今年預估多少現在就一千萬以一千萬目標目標那一到四月覺得狀況好不好"},{"start":6182.093,"end":6205.465,"text":"對我們是第一季195195點將近200將近200比去年成長多少相對去年的話但是已經恢復到七成了去年多比去年成長嘛對比去年的第一季成長沒錯比例因為你目標要一千萬嘛所以你要按計答"},{"start":6205.825,"end":6221.014,"text":"答標這個跟會長報告就是說第一季如果兩百萬乘以四都八百萬嘛對對對那我們是覺得這是往上升的所以我們目標是一千萬所以我覺得你要按季去追蹤啦不然的話等到你最後12月到了發現哎呦還差這麼多"},{"start":6222.955,"end":6239.063,"text":"那時候你已經沒有方法了但你按計檢討你就可以發現這個趨勢對不對啊我們還有可以用什麼方法因為今年到現在才4月嘛換言之還有好幾個月你可以想辦法我們是跟2019比好那奧邦的話我們今年成長多少大家都在講說欸"},{"start":6241.024,"end":6254.631,"text":"現在旅遊型態改變了。觀光型態改變。大家都愛出國。政治這個說大家是批評到說這個比較窮的人出國。台灣比較貴所以有錢留在台灣沒錢的人出國。2019年是1700萬。2019是1700萬出國。那去年呢?"},{"start":6264.318,"end":6265.56,"text":"數字對不對?就是說蘇國奧邦的數字是不是很明顯的上升?"},{"start":6275.083,"end":6295.36,"text":"還是這個只是大家感覺機場人很多所以大家就說相對去年是成長是成長的立即也很明顯的成長對不對對好所以旅遊型態真的在改變那旅遊型態改變我今天就先姑且不論長期這幾年長期問題像缺工啦等等問題那"},{"start":6298.248,"end":6324.744,"text":"部長或署長有沒有想過今年阿怎麼樣用什麼方式讓旅客可以增加時間到了是嗎好來來這個問題回答完就好提供說明資料因為我們現在是要五路齊發啦就是說我們確實也需要增加點然後增加推廣會增加露出戶外室內的還有社群我提供一個啦就是說我覺得還是要有你還是要有亮點啦我隨便舉一個例子齁"},{"start":6326.189,"end":6347.74,"text":"大巨蛋完工大巨蛋是一個為棒球或者表演的成立的建築物就是說他一開始出發絕對不是為了台灣的觀光但是因為這個建築物的完成你看我們的直棒的統計數據就可以發現很多人來大巨蛋看球除了球迷之外還有第二種人是他來觀光的"},{"start":6348.666,"end":6375.012,"text":"他把大巨蛋視為觀光景點他來體驗一下哎呦坐在一個室內棒球場看棒球是他這一輩子沒有過的體驗所以他把它當他的觀光概念大過於看球賽的輸贏那這個叫什麼這個就是我講的觀光要從這裡做起那個杜董事長也有來嘛那你看喔杜董事長你坐就好了因為時間已經到了你看喔台鐵"},{"start":6377.093,"end":6390.182,"text":"這個公司化之後台鐵開始跟民間合作比如說跟這個什麼雄獅旅遊去坐那個什麼這個列車啊明日號什麼的對明日號到今天為止都還一票難求嘛對不對啊對"},{"start":6391.687,"end":6418.039,"text":"那一票難求為什麼不複製啊就是說我的意思說交通部底下光不要講到行政院不要講政府光交通部底下我們就可以我們有很多的商機啊其實都在我們自己的部裡面的管轄範圍觀光不可以靠觀光署一個人啊他必須要統合啊啊統合怎麼去觀光的資源應該是我抓到了重點然後我把它放大"},{"start":6419.913,"end":6431.663,"text":"你光光你每年編的預算你要去蓋什麼那怎麼可能蓋得了呢你一個都蓋不了啦但是你必須要抓到亮點然後透過行銷放大透過行銷把它放大"},{"start":6432.979,"end":6461.054,"text":"變成他的效益會更高這個本席認為這個才是重點嘛 對不對所以你看像鐵路應該請杜董事長他趕快看台鐵公司還有什麼資產可以跟觀光做連結他台鐵的目的本身他是交通嘛他是運輸嘛可是現在不能這樣來思考這個問題好不好不好意思主席耽誤了很多時間謝謝謝謝蔡委員法言完畢"},{"start":6463.016,"end":6481.548,"text":"蔡委員也是職棒聯盟的會長。也來這邊做置入的行銷。現在請何欣淳委員發言。謝謝召委李坤澤委員。我們請部長。請部長。"},{"start":6488.223,"end":6489.204,"text":"道路交通安全基本法"},{"start":6504.212,"end":6530.266,"text":"那在這個上位法之下呢事實上我們要面對很多挑戰因為呢我在把這一張我做的整理出來的這個圖來告訴大家我們有好多好多的拼圖法規必須要去修必須要去整理必須要去爬書那我也很高興呢我們在4月16號那三讀通過了這個行政交通安全設施條例那我記得我也有到內政委會去參與討論跟發言"},{"start":6532.947,"end":6549.12,"text":"除了這個之外呢我想就是今天的道路交通管理處罰條例的草案我們要進行修法但是我要請部長你看我整理了這些事實上我們中央還有地方各地方政府他所有的交通管理的法規"},{"start":6550.081,"end":6577.907,"text":"自治條例或者是設計標準規範還有處理細則管理辦法等等還很多所以我記得上次去年在也是在交通委員會部長有跟我承諾我們呢這個道路交通安全基本法三讀通過之後我們要利用半年的時間來盤點那定一個明確的時程來告訴國人說我們如何對台灣的交通安全能夠的把它"},{"start":6579.187,"end":6606.444,"text":"而且呢,調整、修改、清楚、明確而且合理化讓安全能夠獲得保障。部長這半年內你整理得完嗎?處理得完嗎?現在時間點是7月1號各單位所管的法令要做一個討論。我舉例來講就是說道路交通標註標註設置規則在過去很多人說好像死板板的要怎麼定那我們現在一年手已經有一個這一個叫什麼"},{"start":6607.765,"end":6622.996,"text":"應援所已經有指引他他會告訴比較整體性的這個指引有一個指引出來有一個指引嗎那包括包括這個各地方政府各地方有不同型態的這個樣態的一個道路嗎對不對因為道路系統有太多的不同的樣態跟規定"},{"start":6624.757,"end":6642.733,"text":"這個是目前我們覺得最重要就是標記表現如果設置如果不好的話但是過去在這個設置規則裡面是各案式的大家不會錯起來這個也在做現在大概整個在討論是我們現在是以7月1號大家要把它修好7月1號為基準點對不對7月1號之前應該還在盤點而已啦部長"},{"start":6648.524,"end":6654.59,"text":"那7月1號他那個我們的部門應該很快我們部門現在已經我要拜託部長啦我覺得這個是持續性的我們7月1號之前我認為交通部應該更積極除了盤點哪些法規應該要調整之外那我認為該調整要調整啦"},{"start":6669.159,"end":6683.437,"text":"不是只有盤點而已啊不然我們的行人交通安全設施條例都已經三讀通過了那呢內政部呢針對下面的執法官也要跟個人來修訂了那所以我們交通部也要同步跟上啊"},{"start":6683.977,"end":6703.875,"text":"跟委員報告現在有關那個道路交通標誌標記號誌設置規則目前我們已經有修正部分的條文正在做行政程序要跟地方政府溝通因為我們各縣市的這個道路系統他的差異跟樣態很多元所以我們在過程中有徵詢地方政府的相關意見"},{"start":6704.435,"end":6728.158,"text":"是所以我們要盡力做那7月1號我希望不只是盤點而是該調整的要跟著調整好這第一點第二個我呢來自台中我一點開我們交通部的官網我們就跳出一個視窗這個也是我們要求交通部做是提醒但是也很傷痛為什麼因為呢我們113年1月的道路交通事故的統計裡面"},{"start":6729.739,"end":6751.546,"text":"我們台中市是各縣市裡面的第一名而這種第一名是非常不好的第一名十三人數我們325我們可以看到說我們從去年一直在重視行人安全到現在結果所有的宣導、工程、法規都在進行但是我們的交通事故還是持續在攀升部長你認為為什麼我覺得很擔心"},{"start":6755.887,"end":6776.576,"text":"市長,各縣市表現不太一樣,像高雄市表現非常好,去年下降五十幾個,那台中去年是表現比較差,但是整體在去年是死亡下降,但是件數還是增加,但是我剛才報告就下半年,去年下半年是有一個比較顯著的一個成果。"},{"start":6777.276,"end":6785.113,"text":"但是各縣市不一樣部分我們現在都是用我們的福島福島專業小組下這個就是我現在跟你講的來以台中為例"},{"start":6786.414,"end":6807.39,"text":"我上次有問過紅綠燈的路口六都之中台中最多那保護行人專用的十項號誌的比例卻最低這個是你們交通部的一個表格那上次我問的時候交通部的官員回答我啊不是所有的這個路口都一定要這個行人專用十項這個我承認不是所有的路口都要但是"},{"start":6808.211,"end":6832.525,"text":"但是我們保護行人的專用的10項號誌現在與法有據欸我們道路交通標誌標線號誌的設置規則裡面他的第三目他有講啊行人特多的時候必須使用行人專用的10項的交他入口是可以設置的喔是要設置的喔我們現在剛三讀通過了行人交通安全設施條例裡面在第七條裡面也有講到"},{"start":6834.846,"end":6859.584,"text":"醫療院所、學校機關、大眾運輸場帳等行人密集場所周邊是我們的必須要做的友善行人區、行人友善區那就應該做保護行人的專用實相號誌啊那下一頁我就要盤點了我叫助理自己去盤點我們目前看到的數據上臺中市只有130個入口有用這樣子的行人專用實相的設置"},{"start":6860.945,"end":6886.025,"text":"我盤點我們光是台中市啊有醫院的啦有學校的啦在火車站周邊的啦在捷運車站周邊的或是商圈的總共就有534處我給你猜做5百好了啦有500個可能的重大路口行人特別多的路口需要設置行人專用實相的這樣的號誌可是我們台中市目前只有130個"},{"start":6887.606,"end":6912.563,"text":"那所以呢我要爭取中央來支持。為什麼?市長,你支持嗎?我跟委員報告,我們現在4年400億可以補助喔。所以我就覺得他們,我個人非常支持這個新聞專務實相。就是剛才所提到的這些,所以我覺得如果不夠的話,我們現在包括我們的部分包括這個國土署的部分都可以,我們都可以補助。"},{"start":6913.343,"end":6934.595,"text":"是。接下來我就要跟你講這件事你已經先講了喔。經費的運用要解決實際的問題要彈性我上次去內政委員會問過內政部林佑昌部長他告訴我我們這一次400億的這個編列的預算裡面呢內政部跟交通部都是主管機關那交通部的部分呢我認為要"},{"start":6936.31,"end":6945,"text":"滾動式檢討。如果地方政府真的有需要,我們中央要全力支持。因為內政部長林佑昌是跟我答應說,沒錯,我們內政部是滾動式檢討、彈性運用,只要地方政府願意提計劃,我們都願意支持。所以部長也是同樣的態度嗎?支持,非常支持。"},{"start":6954.511,"end":6972.094,"text":"所以我就要拜託行人的安全很重要那接下來就要討論了我們這一次的修法出來要保障行人的安全那還有什麼我們這個違規祭典的新制這個我相信你也知道這個是我從交通部爬書出來的我們違規祭典的這個倍數成長職業類別的五倍數的成長非職業類別的六倍數的成長"},{"start":6980.276,"end":6995.891,"text":"在安全的前提之下這些數字我想就是我們道路管理上的新挑戰嗎?部長那你怎麼認為?我想這樣齁在去年的確我們也是在立法院大家覺得新人第一要改啊當然"},{"start":6996.832,"end":7018.825,"text":"交通部當時的評估、大家的建議我們覺得也可以做。它的確也發生很多,因為我們的環境還沒有整頓完,包括路邊停車還沒整頓完的很多亂象,還包括檢舉達人比較腐爛的檢舉。所以我們這一次是比較系統性的,去年是臨時性的,現在已經系統性的。"},{"start":7019.665,"end":7048.285,"text":"就用我們從處罰條例92條下售的這些相關規定就用一千兩百元系統性的從我們剛剛我剛剛第一頁開始講的啊道安的這個基本法向下很多的相關的法令我們都要去盤點要去調整啊所以我們的安全的設施設備所以為什麼我們這個行人的道路安全設施設備法已經先通過了吧這個就是要先有法而且要授權民定中央跟地方政府該做什麼事"},{"start":7049.486,"end":7075.172,"text":"那這些事情一理設備安全設備要先做好先規範好目前是這樣子吧所以我最後捐贈我時間到了我還是希望交通部我們行人用路人安全很重要那人車道我覺得這個相關的法規都要務實跟完善我不希望造成社會更大的對立好不好希望我們繼續再溝通讓這個法能夠修得更完善讓大家更安全謝謝"},{"start":7079.073,"end":7101.445,"text":"何欣淳委員發言完畢。現在請盧明哲委員發言。好,謝謝主席。有請王部長。請王部長。"},{"start":7108.335,"end":7133.99,"text":"部長其實從去年6月30號我們在道交條例修法不管是祭典有很多一個相關的法規修正之後當然到去年的年底你也覺得在營業駕駛的部分產生了一些很多的交通硬體的環境本來應該有停車的空間事實上盤點地方政府他們可能跟不上"},{"start":7135.031,"end":7159.206,"text":"那現在我們在針對這10個一千兩百塊罰款以下的來去做一個定義就是不要記點然後對不對不開放檢舉不開放檢舉不記點主要是這個部分那事實上我相信每位民意代表包括你們應該在過去這個將近大半年的期間"},{"start":7160.492,"end":7160.512,"text":"報告。"},{"start":7183.797,"end":7207.17,"text":"那第二階段我們在行人入權的單位他們有一些想法但我覺得在公聽會我們也發覺大家在立場上面是激烈的一個辯論爭論都沒關係但是其實有一個最大的共識不管是哪一個團體都希望台灣的交通環境更好我覺得這是一個最大的共識所以這一次那個修法的過程中啊"},{"start":7207.87,"end":7214.478,"text":"我們希望能夠凝聚最大的共識來去做一個修正但我先請問一下按一下好不好"},{"start":7219.769,"end":7246.414,"text":"這個因為520其實也快到了那現在已經公佈了接下來我們現在行政院秘書長李孟元秘書長要接任未來交通部長那我們現在是審這個其實雙方爭議還蠻大的這樣的一個條文那這個部分我們也看到這個未來的部長特別說他也希望打造人本跟安全交通環境而且最重要是說他也要找你來請議"},{"start":7248.334,"end":7266.172,"text":"我們現在大概他說了6天之後目前你們有沒有稍微談過有有一直在討論包括這次的修法因為他的秘書長都全程參與所以在這一個今天這十個十大類別事實上也經過我們行政院秘書長"},{"start":7267.513,"end":7292.755,"text":"所以這個是無縫接軌。觀念無縫接軌喔。包括整個行政院都知道這樣的修法。包括秘書長。他也全部支持嘛。所以才會經過行政院的一個確定法。但是經過了我們立法院包括公聽會很多委員那個建議很多一個聲音啊。我覺得圍條這個部分你們在交接的部分一定要講清楚。我個人"},{"start":7293.616,"end":7318.111,"text":"個人也是覺得我們營業的價值真的要讓他們可以生存啦但是一刀切的這個方式啊我真的看到了一些問題啊我贊成剛剛這個崑德昭偉啊他講的這個有一件事情的嚴重度他雖然放在同樣一個法條裡面可明明嚴重度就不一樣我就覺得說在隧道裡停車"},{"start":7320.561,"end":7347.288,"text":"我覺得一般隧道相對昏暗第二個一般的隧道因為公法的部分所以他車道其實又真的比較狹窄所以你在隧道裡停車跟在外面的圓環其他地方停車你要把它放在一起這個也也不用記點也不用這個甚至也不能檢舉我覺得像這個我認為比較嚴重我自己我認為比較嚴重第二個呢有一個是"},{"start":7349.093,"end":7372.833,"text":"停在人行道上面停在人行道上面也變成這個不開放檢舉然後基本上我覺得也不忌廉但這個東西就道理有一點點講不通你知道嗎我們一堆駕駛在移動的過程中在看到人群來的時候要過人行道抱歉行人穿越道的時候搬馬線的時候"},{"start":7374.468,"end":7387.068,"text":"就等在那裡很小心很小心要距離幾公尺他才可以過我們對行政院傳證導師這麼敬畏的一個角度你只要稍微離他近一點嚴重開罰而且還近好就聽說還近兩點"},{"start":7389.075,"end":7404.274,"text":"結果乾脆我們現在修個法規說沒事你就把你的車停在人行道上面這個哪個事情比較嚴重哪個我離別人近一點哇那嚴重可是我乾脆把車停在行人車行道上面"},{"start":7405.395,"end":7433.145,"text":"不能檢舉也不用記點這個我發覺你們回去思考一下好不好我覺得這個邏輯上面有問題啦所以一刀切的部分我希望在中間有一些嚴重程度跟合理程度有問題的我覺得要把它拿掉大家雙方也可以接受嘛我覺得現在很多營業駕駛說你們不能害他你知道嗎所以說這個安全帽不戴"},{"start":7434.245,"end":7434.425,"text":"韓國瑜記者"},{"start":7460.339,"end":7479.692,"text":"我們交通部甚至未來的交通部在交接的過程中我覺得這真的要講清楚了部長你覺得呢因為真的有一些嚴重程度明顯不一樣你的說法怎麼樣我是覺得我想要尊重這個委員的討論但是我們這次120米是主要有法源"},{"start":7480.592,"end":7495.879,"text":"一個是道交條例九十二條一個是道路交通管理統一除了才華基準的所謂違罪不法就是施以勸導免疫計劃。這個意思是說當你比如說違規停車警察來的時候他可以把你趕走他不開單"},{"start":7497.02,"end":7500.762,"text":"提到的包括待安全帽要不要開民眾檢舉或是其他項目現在有一個就是說我們跟警方大概討論了如果民眾民眾打110"},{"start":7516.57,"end":7517.49,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":7536.345,"end":7561.076,"text":"目前的一個狀況就是你目前大概要處理就十大類別不開放檢舉那事實上這個數據問題後續有沒有一些配套的一個措施那就我們的112年的統計數據譬如說其中前面幾個你們現在所有的陳案的量體大概有80%到90%都是檢舉的案件那我在想"},{"start":7561.716,"end":7578.279,"text":"沒有檢舉之後我們警力喔這個剛剛有人問到底是負擔輕還是負擔重每個人打110嘛不過我是覺得對於有一些重點的區塊你們是準備配套用科技執法來去替代有一重點的一個位置還是怎麼樣警政署你們有什麼想法"},{"start":7583.959,"end":7602.234,"text":"提起對警察來講民眾檢舉負擔最重的是在違規臨停跟違規停車這部分案件是非常多但是對實際上這一個停車秩序的改善並沒有幫助因為我們現在停車空間的供需目前還沒有到完整的時候"},{"start":7603.155,"end":7603.475,"text":"提醒一下"},{"start":7620.626,"end":7640.823,"text":"如果確定修法以現在這個情況我認為在第一線遠景街道110不管相關的電話我覺得一定會有一陣子會增加很多你們要自己心理準備最後公務總局我建議一下謝謝警政處這個我們現在很多地方事實上是沒有人行道"},{"start":7642.362,"end":7658.459,"text":"這個也是駕駛人跟行人的共識啊。駕駛人也希望有人行道欸。他們這個沒有衝突。現在我發覺啊,行人的一個危機,最大的危機是全台灣的很多馬路,就我在桃園看到了。有超多的,連人行道都沒有啦。"},{"start":7659.039,"end":7680.851,"text":"稍後試行的也全都沒有所以上次我跟部長有講過啦我說經費真的要盤點讓各縣市有一些部分但是要審到的部分快速道路當然不用講純粹車型的但是主要的一些我們比較老牌的審到台縣、台三縣這是台灣串接老城市的一個最重要的一個審到"},{"start":7681.491,"end":7697.593,"text":"你經過不斷經過了一個市區市區市區我是希望很多是地方政府的事情但是有時候我們在公路總區你要盤點台一線台三線這經過城鎮人家繁榮市區的這個部分我自己"},{"start":7698.174,"end":7726.845,"text":"我覺得交通部也要做一個盤點到底哪裡有沒有人行道到底哪裡我們自己省道台一、台三線經過城市的時候可以做標線型這個部分可以做到嗎?這個有在做現在400億裡面那個交通部是140億然後國土署260億他說都是居安內的那140億的部分很多都做我們省道的部分第2個委員所提的在過去省道很多地方都沒有人行道但是省道"},{"start":7727.645,"end":7731.087,"text":"行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請"},{"start":8484.702,"end":8490.777,"text":"好繼續開會我們現在要先處理臨時提案本日既有一案請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":8495.13,"end":8519.529,"text":"臨時提案一海線雙軌化行政院已於今年一月合定然而海線雙軌全限高加化對於逢河區域交通平衡鐵道兩側經濟發展有重大注意交通部應有為有守對於地方建設之需要應加速協助於五月二十號遣送行政院合定右台鐵遂已於今年民營化"},{"start":8520.309,"end":8540.874,"text":"為交通部人有權部此股未來營運及產權都歸屬中央委員提案要求交通部競速將海線雙軌化提升為海線雙軌全線高架化且比照台中鐵路高架捷運化計劃由中央權額補助興建提案人委員黃建豪等宣了完畢好請問交通部有沒有意見請說明"},{"start":8549.209,"end":8578.14,"text":"交通部有沒有意見請說明來用麥克風麥克風有沒有開本案建議建議提案文字倒數第三行要求兩個字改為建請競訴改為評估那這樣子的修正剛剛有跟委員辦公室做過溝通跟說明"},{"start":8580.1,"end":8581.921,"text":"提案委員對上述提案補簽列入記錄並刊登公報。"},{"start":8608.001,"end":8610.542,"text":"現在繼續請黃建豪委員發言。好,謝謝趙偉。我們先請部長。請部長。"},{"start":8634.087,"end":8634.167,"text":"歡迎光臨"},{"start":8646.984,"end":8674.141,"text":"這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工"},{"start":8675.161,"end":8689.466,"text":"目前這個是內政部但是因為這主要原因是說現在的行人設施大部分在都市計劃區內所以這是國土署所管的所以當時在院裡面是把這個條例由內政部來提出來"},{"start":8691.086,"end":8703.451,"text":"我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位"},{"start":8706.121,"end":8735.144,"text":"比如台一縣要做人行道或是台三縣要做這些人行道這個就由我們來處理所以都市計劃區內歸內政部都市計劃區外歸你們就是這個條例主管機關是在內政部好那如果是條例主管機關在內政部的話那這個條例在後續在執行這個道交條例的時候因為道交條例我那時候在那個質詢的時候也有提到道交條例提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種是是"},{"start":8735.464,"end":8760.593,"text":"所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含7樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,包含這間道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題。那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想"},{"start":8761.073,"end":8772.242,"text":"後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全設施條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼"},{"start":8774.576,"end":8798.692,"text":"應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面"},{"start":8800.259,"end":8828.465,"text":"好所以部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因爲這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義就到底是要找往上找要找誰好沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論哦接下來我要請請問一下跟跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道交條例的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要問題我想會從去年提出這個"},{"start":8830.225,"end":8847.153,"text":"記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地送服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂地送服務業"},{"start":8855.757,"end":8856.598,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":8872.457,"end":8899.011,"text":"會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個貨車的停車格貨車裝卸區的停車格那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎"},{"start":8901.547,"end":8921.315,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個"},{"start":8924.136,"end":8949.869,"text":"另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況"},{"start":8950.609,"end":8974.364,"text":"所以全國增加你的數字200個停車增加200個或者停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點"},{"start":8975.717,"end":8995.628,"text":"因為今天這個問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。"},{"start":8997.549,"end":9014.368,"text":"他當然就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區"},{"start":9016.53,"end":9043.545,"text":"卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月、6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。"},{"start":9044.793,"end":9044.813,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":9060.855,"end":9083.841,"text":"我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道"},{"start":9084.261,"end":9084.762,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":9101.445,"end":9101.985,"text":"答案答案答案"},{"start":9126.536,"end":9149.522,"text":"那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求"},{"start":9150.273,"end":9170.885,"text":"你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線它一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣它沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小,所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。"},{"start":9171.405,"end":9200.431,"text":"那如果今天我們行政院提到的要解決行人、交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面、巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低 對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走"},{"start":9201.371,"end":9224.134,"text":"我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好"},{"start":9224.494,"end":9251.463,"text":"那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他就可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後一個時間到了我再拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝主席謝謝黃金豪委員發言完畢現在請陳素月委員發言"},{"start":9264.622,"end":9267.863,"text":"謝謝主席請主席邀請王部長請王部長陳偉豪部長早那今天委員會就是針對這個道交條例七之一還有六十三還有六十三之二這個修正案來進行詢答那我想針對這個部分的一個調整對交通部來說真的也是吃力不討好"},{"start":9291.031,"end":9291.171,"text":"告知報告"},{"start":9308.067,"end":9308.688,"text":"報告報告報告報告"},{"start":9337.85,"end":9337.89,"text":"法令規則"},{"start":9364.801,"end":9388.949,"text":"就是都是基於這個安全道路安全的一個考量我想這個應該就是我們最基礎的應該是要回歸到這個來思考那當然就是說目前這樣子一個調整是比較我想應該是比較不得不的一個調整那是不是也可以請部長再稍微說明一下就是說當然做了這個調整之後我們未來要怎樣再來做"},{"start":9389.569,"end":9389.629,"text":"條例條例"},{"start":9405.206,"end":9423.733,"text":"去年大概這時候在立法院我們當時這個婚委就是新任地域所以當時對處罰條例相關的這個課題作為比較這個大家都覺得要加入更嚴格的執法但是的確在去年的下半年實施以後"},{"start":9424.293,"end":9448.967,"text":"就是委員所提的包括職業駕駛也包括一般民眾就是因為環境還沒有整頓完以後當開放民眾檢舉造成很大生活上的困擾所以的確我們在這一次我常常講說這個我個人要取消這十項也是天人交戰但是我在這邊就跟委員報告這是一個"},{"start":9450.197,"end":9454.461,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":9467.231,"end":9482.852,"text":"行政院支持包括法令、立法院也支持法令錢也都給了那我們再利用這四年時間把環境整頓好包括停車的地方包括剛才談到裝卸車位等等的把它整頓好那當然"},{"start":9483.473,"end":9499.954,"text":"到時候在這個整個這個處罰條例事實上每年都會在立法院都會可以做一些討論當然有有一定的成效環境的整頓好以後我是覺得還是可以再再討論那第二個是這是不開放民眾檢舉但是民眾還是可以打110報案"},{"start":9501.656,"end":9515.863,"text":"就是所以也不會說就是不處理讓他變成一個大違規的這個狀況所以我想說這部分我們也跟警政署再討論一下就在未來在108案裡面要怎麼來處理這個部分也會再持續的強化"},{"start":9518.527,"end":9536.259,"text":"對,部長剛剛講到開放110的一個報案當然這又是回到實務面的一個問題可能也會造成因為警力不足沒有辦法立即處理的一個狀況所以我想這個可能都還是會有很多實際面我們要去面對跟檢討的我想這個因為時間關係也沒有辦法在這裡做很詳細的一個討論當然就是說我們的政策跟制度我們應該還是就是要"},{"start":9547.986,"end":9575.449,"text":"回到就是這個道路安全交通安全這樣子一個思維來思考那當然剛剛部長有講說這樣的調整當然也是一個不得不的目前的一個調整的措施那未來就是會針對這個整個道路的設施來做一個改善那在這裡我再先請教一下就是說因為這樣子一個祭典那目前當然我們就是會就是會先取消就是在"},{"start":9577.19,"end":9605.569,"text":"一千兩百塊的這個罰款這樣子的一個行為下不開放檢舉當然就是說對於比較重大違規的部分還是有檢舉可是有檢舉祭典的部分還是會延伸出一些問題就是有關這個祭典黃牛的這個行為那這個部分因為我們當然就是說這樣的一個處罰我們當然還是就是要約束這個實際的駕駛人行為人希望他們"},{"start":9606.249,"end":9620.706,"text":"能夠就是讓他們知道這個違規然後能夠來改正可是如果說衍生出這個祭典黃柳這部分我想這個又已經走偏了上市了我們的這個法令的一個原意所以這部分我們有去做檢討嗎"},{"start":9622.248,"end":9637.176,"text":"對,這一次修改也是這樣,就民眾卷舉的部分不祭典了。因為他可能沒有辦法像警話到現場看到當事者是誰,然後開這個當事人的這個祭典。然後另外就是"},{"start":9638.336,"end":9665.794,"text":"這個科技質問法的部分也一樣就是說科技法拍到一個人的比如說他是闖紅燈好了結果要找到的那一個人就是委員所提的很多這個找一個冒牌的人或是所謂的祭典黃牛出來所以在這一次裡面就是進行舉發包括民眾檢舉跟科技質問法部分也不祭典那大家要由警方現場確定是誰的時候再祭典所以這個課題大概這一次也是做一個處理"},{"start":9666.567,"end":9693.265,"text":"有做了處理是是好謝謝那當然就是說要讓這個法令能夠更就是消明這個我們社會的一些紛爭跟對立當然就是剛剛部長提到了這整個交通環境的一個改善行人道路設施的一個改善那在這邊當然也要先再次的感謝我們就是這幾年交通部就是說在前瞻特別預算裡面有補助地方就是來"},{"start":9694.846,"end":9719.967,"text":"信件停車場的一個設施。那之後在這個前瞻計畫之後我們交通部是不是還會有這樣子的一個規劃。那因為我們知道就是說你停車位不足然後要就是要求民眾就是在這個停車不停包括ful說不停騎樓啦或者是說一些地方就是停車的問題真的還是要回到這個停車空間的一個"},{"start":9721.128,"end":9728.475,"text":"問題來解決。所以這個停車場的部分我們之後還有沒有新的一個政策?目前就是200加60、260億。然後想說在下一任的這個"},{"start":9736.23,"end":9764.689,"text":"這個包括院長或是這個部長他們可能會做一個考量比如下一期有沒有再一個這個改善停車問題的下一期目前是我們還沒有研擬因為這個到114所以我們現在就是把已經在動工的什麼就趕快完成啊比如說從115以後有沒有那個那個可能在會再做一個決定那我個人是覺得的確你要整頓路邊停車真的是路外的停車場是最重要的一個部分"},{"start":9765.97,"end":9775.835,"text":"提出這個停車空間當然除了停車場的興建之外當然就是會涉及到可能還是要跟地方政府一起去盤點就是說什麼樣的區域區塊的停車問題要怎麼解決"},{"start":9781.118,"end":9809.575,"text":"因為我們知道就是說有一些住宅密集區他巷道可能就6米寬那附近也沒有什麼停車空間那如果說我們禁止他騎樓停車的時候他可能真的沒地方停車那我如果要開放的話這個可能又不是交通部可以進行做決定的所以我們也希望就是說透過中央地方一起來檢討努力讓我們就是有關這個停車問題也好或者是交通安全問題能夠更完善"},{"start":9809.915,"end":9835.006,"text":"了解我是覺得就是說把路邊的停車把它路外化變成路外的停車場把路邊的這個空間在就是不要被路邊停車占用然後變成路邊臨時停車的困擾這個應該是整個是我們整頓大環境一個方向謝謝部長好謝謝現在請許智傑委員發言"},{"start":9847.32,"end":9871.346,"text":"謝謝主席我們先請那個台鐵局請督委董事長部長你順便聽一下請問局長現在那個有很多落軌現在是董事長有很多那個"},{"start":9872.574,"end":9892.01,"text":"落軌的案件。那我們可以看到這幾年來落軌的意外有前四年有100多件死亡有29人然後呢前一陣子又有板橋跟客工館站都有落軌的事件那我們希望說這個閘門的裝設現在台鐵有什麼計畫"},{"start":9898.443,"end":9919.158,"text":"我們現在計劃在高雄站要示範第一處我們月台門所以這個大概什麼時候會完成我們預計這個月台門的那個示範點呢要在今年的年底來完成那除了高雄之外高雄市先示範那其他的全國的台鐵勒"},{"start":9920.388,"end":9938.196,"text":"這個要看那個事辦點齁他閘門設置好以後他使用的情形再來研議你們閘門齁我大概有去研究一下可能你這個閘門跟捷運或跟高鐵不一樣嘛因為他們都是固定型態嘛那台鐵的不同的車種"},{"start":9939.036,"end":9939.296,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":9967.814,"end":9982.265,"text":"好那我們的那個鐵路齁鐵路就是說我們基本上西部高鐵東部快鐵嘛好那我們的花東去年我們也去剪裁齁那現在進度怎麼樣呃委員市區 花東雙軌喔 花東雙軌鐵道局齁嗯"},{"start":9995.103,"end":10011.249,"text":"報告委員因為去年我們在招標上面比較不順利那後來在去年年底花東雙軌相關的主體工程標都絕標了那我們最近可以展開實質的動工所以我們本來是預計116年完工嘛對不對現在會不會來得及"},{"start":10016.124,"end":10030.784,"text":"現在會分階段那會分4段那因為中間我們也將過去地方訴求的花蓮道吉安的七處危險平交道提報修正計劃改為高架路段現在這已經抱怨在做審核當中"},{"start":10031.765,"end":10050.644,"text":"就是整體完工的時間整體完工的時間會分四段那第四段會叫原來的部分會有所延誤會延誤所以116年10月原則上沒有辦法如期通車那只有在台東那一段會如期通車那其他三段會稍有延誤延誤大概會多久"},{"start":10051.871,"end":10057.655,"text":"呃、高價的那一段我現在數字可能沒有完全記載我會後再跟委員報告"},{"start":10082.335,"end":10103.824,"text":"我們西高鐵、東快鐵還有另外一個目的,就是東部的觀光,也就是說你今天我們本來的預計是6個小時可以環島一周嘛。那6個小時環島一周,如果說這個花東雙軌競速完成之後,我們再配套的觀光的設施,其實我一直在推動就是類似比如說"},{"start":10105.104,"end":10123.005,"text":"東天日本那邊冷可以到我們台灣的東部甚至南台灣這邊地方來做一個長照觀光的概念這個部分觀光署有沒有做什麼樣的規劃?華東本來就是我們這個非常重要的觀光旅遊目的地"},{"start":10124.226,"end":10151.58,"text":"我們是希望能夠善用台九線跟台十一線那麼我們在這個部分也是希望能夠推動那個自行車的旅遊或者雙鐵的旅遊或鐵道旅遊那我們現在有兩個重要計畫就是希望能夠把南部跟這個就是從嘉義北回歸線到花蓮的北回歸線變成一個南環的這個設計我們叫做微笑南台灣的這種設計"},{"start":10154.441,"end":10177.248,"text":"來結合相關的這個鐵道旅遊的這個沒關係這個整體的整體的旅遊我想觀光局會觀光署會設計全台灣嘛對我們是分幾個區塊用區域旅遊的方式針對東部的長照觀光觀光署是不是有概念長照的部分它涉及到那個我們衛福部一些能量"},{"start":10177.788,"end":10201.727,"text":"那原則上我們是希望跟民宿有些比較長時間的,有幾個那個我們叫做...其實我的概念就是希望署長,署長可以跟衛福部他們也聯繫一下吧。也就是說這個東西其實就是要如何去吸引,我想台灣到日本的很多,日本到台灣的也不少啦,但是現在比較少還可以有增加的空間啦。"},{"start":10202.347,"end":10216.503,"text":"是那我們如果增加這樣子的概念的話也許可以吸收像有些我們台灣人有時候到日韓那兩天兩月就去了就回啦那當然就是東部這邊我是一直想說東部這邊你可以過來一個月"},{"start":10217.804,"end":10243.865,"text":"可以過來長久一點,那用這個概念來吸引更多的日韓的觀光客,尤其是可能有一些長輩,年輕人玩年輕的,長輩玩長輩的,那這個部分是不是我們跟衛生、衛福部討論一下有沒有這個機會。好,我們有在跟那邊接洽,那確實是需要更多的誘因。對,所以現在因為署長聽署長的講法跟衛福部都還沒討論嘛。"},{"start":10247.213,"end":10253.109,"text":"那是不是可以先去討論一下看有沒有這個機會。好,是。好,謝謝。我們請那個民航局。"},{"start":10265.681,"end":10280.672,"text":"議長好,那個我們現在就是特色IP我講過很多次了嘛,那我希望說我們民防局可以跟我們的機場再多一點那個11住行預熱的一個規劃,各個機場。我昨天正好"},{"start":10281.733,"end":10296.515,"text":"那個前天晚上要從金門回來回不來回不來正好昨天中午就在金門機場那邊吃中餐吃飯的時候正好可以看飛機的起降可以看跑道可以看遠方"},{"start":10297.316,"end":10313.03,"text":"其實這個感覺是蠻不錯的那也就是說機場其實11住行預熱能夠多一點點這些規劃是不是尤其是我們高雄機場我們高雄機場其實如果吃的地方可以看到飛機降落跟跑道那種感覺也很好"},{"start":10313.951,"end":10313.971,"text":"報告。"},{"start":10331.329,"end":10352.806,"text":"那個塞機的事啊,就是在桃園機場前這個大塞機,那delay了很多的班次。那聽說他們現在北跑道要再修復嘛,那會不會再塞機啊?我想這個部分桃機公司這邊已經針對這個跑道的維修例行的維護的部分已經有建立一套機制。"},{"start":10353.326,"end":10369.815,"text":"那基本上在這個相關在這個計畫啟動前、維修啟動前他們會有相關的對航班﹖您想非常簡單的跟局長先要求一下那個部長這部分也希望能夠幫忙我知道了全國的航空站在修跑道幾乎都用晚上的時間"},{"start":10371.474,"end":10399.26,"text":"我們桃園機場最特別的就是三個白天所以三個白天航班又沒有調整只看到時候的整個流量的控制其實那個都不足所以我是這樣子強烈建議請部長跟局長一起要求就是說我不願意再看到再重複一次發生那怎麼調整桃園機跟民航局你們有把握不再發生你們用什麼方式我不介意"},{"start":10400.151,"end":10400.171,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":10428.673,"end":10433.899,"text":"謝謝許智傑委員發言完畢。現在請牛許廷委員發言。謝謝主席。部長有請。請部長。"},{"start":10450.209,"end":10461.872,"text":"部長早安,今天討論道交條例七條一、六十三跟六十三條之二的修正草案的答詢,這個我先問,部長你會希望520之前就把這個法案處理完畢嗎?開放討論,但你會希望他趕快處理嗎?"},{"start":10471.693,"end":10489.393,"text":"我當然我們送上來就是希望這個會期處理完那當然就是討論的就是尊重所有委員的討論的結果好啦這當然啦這前面也幾次針對這個題目不管是公聽會也好我們也講過嘛就是說這個政策的平衡不要變成反復啦"},{"start":10490.313,"end":10510.681,"text":"本來一下子可以檢舉,一下子變不能檢舉,跨度太大的時候就會變成政策的反反覆覆。你在中間基於社會上的部分的需要做微調做平衡,這個大家都願意理解。可是反覆的時候政策不確定性其實會造成更大的社會紛擾,這核心序名。今天大家去討論這個道交條例的修正當然就是因為這個祭典的制度。"},{"start":10511.221,"end":10537.255,"text":"那我本席理解基於我們的法規很落後基礎建設不夠人本某些層面你也可以算是歷史工業吧所以說在過去就用祭典制度上路的時候其實給職業價值很大的壓力那我們總要繼續產業發展給人家一條活路這樣的概念本席是願意了解的不過你去年11月的時候其實你就已經用這個行政規範的方式去開放說這個路邊臨停上下課就特殊的狀態的時候其實是不予祭典"},{"start":10537.955,"end":10560.857,"text":"那你的六十三條跟六十三條二的修正案大概我覺得可以平衡掉這一次最大的爭點可是問題是你如果連七條一的部分也全部納入的話那我覺得他就會進入一個政策反覆的一個狀況我理解說檢舉可能是一個很大爭議的題目但是我覺得你即便要檢討所謂的檢舉機制也是要針對特定人士大量檢舉的這一件事情"},{"start":10561.878,"end":10576.175,"text":"然後來針對機制上來做檢討跟設定而不是說把一般公民啊因為基於執法量能不足然後自力救濟的管道全部封殺掉部長你現在經過這一連串的公聽會然後大家各方表達意見之後你的看法是什麼"},{"start":10577.009,"end":10595.275,"text":"我跟你們報告就是說在去年的局部修法那時候因為沒辦法去來改這個處罰條例所以有做一些這個臨時處理的對但這一次是系統性的啦那系統性的確我們在內部討論的時候在想說用怎麼樣"},{"start":10596.636,"end":10618.614,"text":"來確定所謂的不開放民眾卷集跟祭典的部分也經過很多討論最後在處罰條例九十二條跟我們的裁判基準的第十二條裡面就有規定就是說當警察碰到某些狀況比如說這個違規停車在在入口但是他去的時候可以用驅趕的不是就開動對嘛所以你有一些行政方式其實也可以相對來講"},{"start":10619.575,"end":10625.998,"text":"對,所以這一次我們處理就是92條跟這個12條的這精神1200塊的精神來做的調整當然啦齁這個過去是越嚴重滑越重過去是這樣但是如果在1200元以下這是我們列出的這十項"},{"start":10640.566,"end":10666.06,"text":"如果大家委員這個大家討論齁那個比如說現在談到呃占用身上車位的部分我個人也覺得這個部分是可以可以繼續開靠民眾檢舉是對啊我跟你講某一些層面你也可以講我就接接下來我順著這題目往下講喔你當然可以講說這個民眾檢舉是很奇怪的由民眾檢舉來行使公權力好像有一些爭議可是這個的存在的這個實務上存在的理由當然就是因為公權力執法的沒有辦法做正常執法"},{"start":10666.58,"end":10693.426,"text":"然後才會讓人民大眾覺得好像我要透過檢舉機制來捍衛行人的權利這樣子其實是階段性你可以接受可是終究以來我們要面對有辦法有效執法的這件事情所以本期要求啊這我們的執法人力啊你如果都丟給警察本期內政委員會了對基層警察弟兄其實不公平也就是說你如果七條一全部拿掉變成說為罪不舉的情況之下實務上來講這些所謂想要自力救濟的人就會通通用報案的方式來處理啊我不能不為我警察弟兄講講話"},{"start":10695.046,"end":10718.209,"text":"即便上面的長官認為沒有人力問題我告訴你基層的警力那也是悶在心裡我是覺得這不是一個很健康的方式我們希望的是也透過有效的也許是用科技執法對不對也許是透過交通助理員的這樣一些設置去補足執法的人力把正常執法的環境建立起來的時候我們再來講說我們把這檢舉制度拿掉去避免社會紛擾這個才是一個有效而且合理的這個步驟"},{"start":10719.07,"end":10740.263,"text":"我了解。我跟你們報告在去年是46項增加到59項現在我們又減到10項又被回到49項了那這個部分也是有衡量比如說警力我並不是把59項全部拿掉我跟你講我現在問的是比如說讓這個社會有正常執法功能的你的進度是什麼你的安排是什麼"},{"start":10741.103,"end":10765.659,"text":"當然交通助理員是各縣市是可以批准的。對,你就不能丟給各縣市。我今天要講的就是你不能丟給地方政府處理嘛。地方政府財政壓力跟中央相比量級其實差非常多。緣額也有一定的限制嘛。中央是不是應該設計一套機制可以給地方政府更多的資源?讓這個機制更健康。我們的機制就是說這個除了警察以外交通助理員就是比較法定公權力的就是這兩個。"},{"start":10766.859,"end":10791.737,"text":"現在六都也有很多已經有涉事務上在地方是欠缺相關的資源所以我希望這個如果你要做這樣的調整的時候相對上你中央要有一定的配套交通助理員的機制化中央的支持我認為是很重要的這我希望交通部也許部長可能基於生涯規劃離開但整個部裡面的這個事務官的同仁要先做研理最後30秒相關的配套措施最後30秒因為今天聽說部長差點遲到"},{"start":10793.078,"end":10797.3,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":10814.469,"end":10830.857,"text":"通過我們現在這樣就是說目前比較擠也是國道客運比如說桃園過來對要趕快處理嘛這個部分我們支持而且我們在這個短期是T-pass可以補掉嘛對中產體我們用補貼部分補貼的方式對所以讓它票價不會太高這個會積極處理時間時間什麼時候這個已經送上來了"},{"start":10834.611,"end":10850.947,"text":"這客運業者都都因為我們要規劃路線的檢討調整我們會需要結構問題要先解決審議會的審查程序已經完成了那最後現在就等部裡面部長這邊還沒有到我這邊啊我趕快還沒有到你桌上我希望啊這件事情在520前可以完成啦"},{"start":10851.087,"end":10878.752,"text":"好,部長繼續上下規劃可能沒有辦法續任交通部長的時候我希望留下最後的身影是對大眾運輸的支持啦而不是針對這個違規然後大家爭議很大的法案啦法案可以充分的討論大家可以花一點時間討論但是大眾運輸可以立即喔對行人對於交通環境友善的我希望留下的是這樣的身影好不好所以部長這個東西拜託你加速啦好不好五月二時間我們要處理完好嗎好謝謝部長好謝謝現在請邱若驊委員發言"},{"start":10889.049,"end":10915.65,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請部長請問好部長好這週二立法院三讀通過了行人交通安全設施條例那無非就是希望能夠建置安全還有友善行人的用路環境那其中有妨礙行人通行的固定設施必須限期改善像是騎樓啊人行道與地面屏必須要拉平嘛"},{"start":10916.05,"end":10936.932,"text":"那今年開始中央有推動四年四百億的永續提升行人安全計劃包括改善行人道、行人還有高齡友善的示範區還有路口、行人、安全設施等改善項目那在道路上最弱勢的就是生長者幼童然後還有高齡長者推娃娃車還有使用輪椅的家庭"},{"start":10937.372,"end":10955.802,"text":"那其實這邊要提到電動輪椅的使用者在人行道品質上下不便還有街道高低不平沒有很好的上下車條件環境路口也不夠安全那權益跟安全權益跟安全都被忽視了請問部長要如何盡快改善對他們不友善的用路交通環境是根據我們"},{"start":10957.703,"end":10973.242,"text":"市長我們在去年就是整個這個行人的安全是當作行政院跟交通部最重要的政策所以您可以看到永續提升行人安全計畫這個就是給對方補助款像今年提出來都是百分之百補助"},{"start":10974.423,"end":10974.703,"text":"案件事項。"},{"start":10991.795,"end":11017.595,"text":"包括四七道路包括我們省道所有人行設施透過這個條例的要求還有我們經費的補助把它做起來這是我們現在最重要的一個目標那其中當然包括這個包括輪椅組還包括這個高齡者這事實上都在我們新任的交通設施裡面當作一個很重要的項目在執行是那請教部長那這一年的交通安全和行人路線的改善具體情況如何"},{"start":11019.072,"end":11038.87,"text":"對,這個今天我們有做一個報告。在去年我們從下半年做一個很積極的作為。這個整個行人大概死亡下降了10.78%。那有關那個道路安全的經費補助各縣市政府的目前的情況。現在有779處全額補助的。"},{"start":11042.453,"end":11070.068,"text":"幾乎這他提上我們幾乎都幾乎都簽了補助了那現在有779處已經提上來了779處因為交通部上個月公布全台一千處對新人不友善的799799那上個月公布全台一千處對新人不友善的危險路段馬桃園佔了135處那一道路的管理權則劃分有43處是交通部公路局管的那請問部長預計完成改善的時程"},{"start":11071.885,"end":11095.262,"text":"這個是今年799是今年要完成的799是今年要完成的OK好那這邊另外再請教部長總統賴清德昨天也有表示4年400億的預算接下來結合礦黨派還有民間團體的力量可以在2030年的時候降低50%的目標那部長您怎麼看"},{"start":11096.563,"end":11123.599,"text":"現在的確包括現在的蔡總統還有賴未來的賴總統對於行人安全都非常的重視所以他們也一直把事實上去年在談這個永續提升人權安全計畫還有包括美國的設施條例等等相關行人的部分總統和副總統他們都有參加他們都會了解這個狀況所以這是一個延續性的所以我們現在應該從去年到現在我們是把制度"},{"start":11124.66,"end":11141.817,"text":"還有包括條例還有包括經費都把它做好了這是一個好的一個開始啦我真的覺得這個未來賴總統提的目標我真的很期待他能夠完成也希望說下一棒大家一起加油這樣子"},{"start":11141.937,"end":11159.973,"text":" OK,那剛剛牛委員有提到就是關於客運的部分,那這邊本席要問的是就解決客運缺額的問題,要如何協助業者攬財、育財、留財的方案,那目前時機還是鬧時機荒,所以這些方案實際上的成效是如何?"},{"start":11160.726,"end":11175.476,"text":"我們第一個就是我們有這個包括訓練司機這個部分我們一個人大概有16萬這樣訓練完然後到各個課業服務第二個這一次他們提出這一個票價調整我們支持"},{"start":11176.317,"end":11176.877,"text":"報告告告告告告"},{"start":11197.93,"end":11223.156,"text":"應該有這個相關的資料有相關的資料好那這邊本期要謝謝王部長過去對桃園重大交通建設的支持那本期在就任立委還不到3個月積極地一直向部長還有行政院長就是爭取捷運綠線延伸至大溪還有國三巴德交流道還有桃園的捷運那這個山陰線延伸至巴德還有國道二號"},{"start":11224.076,"end":11239.056,"text":"的中路交通道等交通建設那也期盼就是部長這邊在交接可以繼續未來也可以繼續支持我們桃園的交通建設謝謝也真的很謝謝邱委員在雖然很短的時間也表現你對於這個"},{"start":11241.349,"end":11254.939,"text":"臺灣的重視,所以這些我們都討論過了。下一棒,事實上我覺得下一棒會更強。而且他也很願意做事,所以我想說我也要放心,他應該會繼續做下去。謝謝王部長。謝謝。現在請謝一鳳委員發言。"},{"start":11272.633,"end":11275.297,"text":"謝謝主席。我想要請王部長王部長早"},{"start":11282.864,"end":11301.454,"text":"我突然想到你有些事情忘了跟那個未來的理部長交接喔你上次答應我在預算協商的時候你答應我要對高鐵、彰化高鐵跟台中高鐵就是列車門是不是有護欄有沒有就是這個部分好像還沒有裝欸是不是"},{"start":11303.346,"end":11312.055,"text":"你上次在預算協商有答應我,你這有沒有交接下去?有告知台灣高鐵公司,現在狀況"},{"start":11315.129,"end":11332.814,"text":"他上次是說列車在在就是說你們列車要月台門嘛那你列車要更換嗎那前陣子也有在就是列月台的時候發生乘客要搶上車那跟高鐵就是的那個警衛有發生衝撞"},{"start":11333.975,"end":11344.053,"text":"為來這些事情代表了不管在台中或者是在彰化高鐵都需要再加強那我們是不是可以請觀光署的周署長我剛剛看到他有來"},{"start":11346.061,"end":11362.707,"text":"尤其是最近有在討論好像彰化高鐵的營運不彰可是我認為目前大家對於彰化高鐵的使用率是很高的那是不是能夠請觀光署報告一下對於我們彰化的周邊的觀光規劃"},{"start":11364.087,"end":11365.148,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":11382.668,"end":11401.097,"text":"委員報告大概高鐵的彰化站的聯外的交通的方便性這個應該要提高啦那因為高鐵本身他有一些聯外的這個巴士那麼我們希望是把田中變成一個hub所以他有一個叫田中支線那個在規劃中"},{"start":11402.338,"end":11420.875,"text":"那未來的話就是他的景點的聯繫因為現在大部分都透過台中高鐵的台中站往南走所以要帶動這個部分一方面要台鐵的系統二方面要高鐵的系統的連結線那麼把把這個填中當hub的時候他就可以把這個帶動"},{"start":11422.516,"end":11450.999,"text":"張化地區以及甚至極極縣到南投這個部分才能夠串接起來那相關的這個時速郵購型的部分我們是把它當作中區的旅遊把它做一些景點的串接那確實張化高鐵的張化站這個部分目前現階段只有幾個比較重要的好行或者客運的連結那這個部分我們也是在暑假有特別希望他們能夠增加一些班次"},{"start":11451.718,"end":11467.626,"text":"好那我要麻煩我們王部長你過去答應我的事情要要對我現在想起來就是說當時因為他要先採購12列的新列車所以他們是認為那個列車的這個門的位置要怎麼樣我我我這個交易下去"},{"start":11468.727,"end":11497.849,"text":"對,是不是?我們還是應該要做,因為你跟李部長應該也是可以溝通的嘛,是不是?那填正支線現在都在進行中啦,這是應該是整個彰化站裡面最重要的一個建設,因為它聯話交通不方便。怎麼樣跟這個鐵路還有包括了吉利支線做一些串聯,這個是它的重點。好,那我剛才看到你有講,就是10項那個違罪,就是輕微的違規,不開放檢舉,那祭典部分呢?"},{"start":11499.051,"end":11511.802,"text":"對就不開檢舉也不祭典我們現在目前那祭典的部分現在都都全部都沒有了嗎沒有沒有就是違罪不祭典還是全部都不祭典就是違罪不接受檢舉也不祭典大概這樣哦就是違罪"},{"start":11513.651,"end":11532.017,"text":"對對對對兩個都不要了是不是對比如說這十項處理完了以後就不接受民眾選舉那未來縱然是警察開單也不記點大概這樣所以也不記點對對對那再來我還是非常我上次在這裡的時候我們提到了也希望你能夠交代下去就是交接下去"},{"start":11532.797,"end":11558.223,"text":"對於我們道路安全基本法裡面我們在深港的那個路口你說要請運燃所然後來把每一個路口不同的太陽就是說就是標線還有相關的標誌的部分你要做一個統合的處理要把那個太陽給各縣市政府去做相關的規劃這個部分"},{"start":11560.183,"end":11563.668,"text":"是不是你有你有交代這個有在進行有有有在進行嗎有有有在進行嗎"},{"start":11578.767,"end":11592.384,"text":"報告一下上次有跟委員報告我們大概會優先在也是部長特別指示我們在計畫這個3個月內我們會先出版第一個階段的一個指引出來光各個地方政府來做這個參考應用"},{"start":11593.365,"end":11619.08,"text":"所以你們三個現在離上次我們質詢幾個月因為我們那個計劃有一個報告然後招標的一個程序那我們現在大概基本上就是在計劃執行上面的時程設計就是應該在520之前你就要出來了吧是不是我們朝這個目標是不是不能等到2020之後吧是不是我們盡量朝這個目標來努力已經成果有第一段成果出來了趕快發布給地方政府來參考這樣"},{"start":11620.253,"end":11633.479,"text":"好好謝謝謝謝現在請鄭天才委員發言鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在現在請林月晴委員發言有請我們的部長請部長"},{"start":11651.553,"end":11668.373,"text":"您好部長好還是期望將不再修法的時候不要再走回頭路因為高風險違規的行為祭典我認為還是要持續進行來下一頁因為當初違規祭典本來就是期待導正我們駕駛人的行為"},{"start":11669.694,"end":11689.388,"text":"那我想部長也非常的清楚不是只是為了罰而是希望導正透過他除了被罰款以外還有有祭典的話可以去修正他的行為下一頁那所以針對進行舉發祭典我認為交通部反反覆覆因為從6月30號針對於這個所謂的處罰條例裡邊修正公佈報案13項"},{"start":11696.553,"end":11717.533,"text":"民眾檢舉跟通盤檢討的違規祭典制度然後可是這這樣的時間點我認為一個是缺乏溝通然後反而造成是人民在生存跟生命之間反而是產生一個對立那當時講的說持像3月7號提的是說要把進行舉發跟民眾檢舉舉發不予祭典"},{"start":11719.793,"end":11743.673,"text":"理由是因為擔心冒名頂替跟違規祭典黃牛跟案件量太大可是公路總局在11月也開發了這樣的機合的一個程式來防堵我們的交通部擔心的理由你花了錢要去解決這問題然後現在又說欸這個不要做如果當初擔心修法理由是說擔心這件事情那你也開發了一些"},{"start":11744.512,"end":11772.643,"text":"來防堵的那樣子的一個程式那為什麼又還是覺得這些不要做那我認為這樣子的話不僅浪費工堂也限我們的公民團體在生命生存當中產生這樣的一個爭論下一那國內舉發大概整個違規進行舉發大概佔七成加上民眾檢舉的大概超過八成那下一頁那可是高風險違規行為每一年約百萬件"},{"start":11773.476,"end":11783.399,"text":"而且呈現穩定上升趨勢嚴重超速闖紅燈這個本來就是對我本席來看就是他"},{"start":11784.37,"end":11804.535,"text":"對於我們的生命傷害事實上是大的來下一頁所以重大違規重複率本來就高就他本來傷害就大結果重複率又高二到三年這些違規再犯的人數事實上是比預期的超過的還要高下一頁所以重大違規累犯者像兩年內闖紅的四次以上者"},{"start":11804.915,"end":11833.206,"text":"他發生交通事故的風險是一次的兩到三倍這個都是道安會的數據資料那就說你們充分有掌握數據資料的時候反而沒有依據反而還要把它拿掉下一頁所以國內違規風險的這個分級表當中這也是你們的資料也就是說告造成致死的模式的發生事故的樣態最為超速無照酒駕嗎"},{"start":11834.066,"end":11859.752,"text":"超速還有違規停車跟闖紅燈那前面我剛剛提過所謂闖紅燈說嚴重超速這都是我們很擔憂的一些議題如果修法通過這類高風險行為應該是就不會再透過那個禁止的祭典可是難以嚇阻這樣子的危險駕駛人下一頁所以我這邊主張重大違規項目像闖紅燈跟嚴重超速應該維持"},{"start":11861.67,"end":11886.599,"text":"我們的禁止的祭典的規定。然後當然更重要的是還有就是你的臨時停車的區域提出一些具體的其中他充施交通人助理員那是不是針對於某一些剛剛那講實相可不可以針對特定地點跟時段還是不要完全排除祭典還有對低風險的行為項目在交通改善前也應該有明確的配套措施"},{"start":11889.27,"end":11915.82,"text":"我是覺得這次的確我們在討論中這個包括剛才談到這個祭典祭典這是我是支持的只是說他的確因為科技植物是民眾捲舉沒辦法真正找到那個駕駛者所以有產生一些亂象我想委員這部分我想在在條例審查我們來討論尤其事實上是闖紅燈跟嚴重超速我認為真的要否則的話還是讓生命"},{"start":11917.1,"end":11944.494,"text":"消失我覺得這不可取啦。這個可以討論。我覺得可以討論。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。您也請委員發言完畢。現在請林國成委員發言。好,謝謝主席。請部長跟林市長。請部長還有市長。"},{"start":11947.338,"end":11975.597,"text":"林福山市長林委員好好那前幾天啊那個市長前幾天又看到行人第一桃園的婦女啊在斑馬縣那個撞被撞市長有沒有了解這個事在斑馬縣我嗎?部長還是市長?市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市"},{"start":11977.338,"end":11998.191,"text":"其實我們說實在的基本上本席對於現在我們交通部不管是道交條例的修改我們說實在是左右為難的那你修改為了駕駛人他的生計"},{"start":11999.69,"end":12028.3,"text":"但是在整個用路人的當中他會有所恐懼也就是不管你違罪不及的不祭典或者祭典那祭典架死人會覺得他生活面臨的困境那你祭典對他們有所不公可是用路人他相反的"},{"start":12029.636,"end":12051.283,"text":"你把他取消他認為他的用路人面臨的危險所以這是左右為難基本上對於我們主管機關交通部切切實實你們現在的處境本席還是多數的立委也認為你們面臨是左右為難但是話再說回來"},{"start":12053.035,"end":12060.81,"text":"我們為什麼不回來一下我們想一想為什麼我們在消化為什麼這麼充足為什麼"},{"start":12065.717,"end":12084.075,"text":"所以這個是值得我們探討一個華下去你有沒有完全的規劃那一個華要做處分你有沒有去想到他的後果所以因而今天我們在修這個華會左右為難"},{"start":12085.316,"end":12108.722,"text":"各說各有理公說公有理婆說婆有理那事實上來講我們主管機關是應該要面臨一個問題就是長治久安的交通罰則所以我們會面臨這些我還是建議部長因為我一向對你是比較理性的部長"},{"start":12109.71,"end":12124.639,"text":"所以不管不管未來任何人接部長我認為在修法真的要長期規劃評估再來做修法的執行不要東今天"},{"start":12125.939,"end":12146.956,"text":"今天修法明天改法那回來又來修法這其實對老百姓無從事事這一點我要代替不管是司機朋友不管是用路人我們說實在他們會產生變成修法雖然修法但是只有"},{"start":12147.977,"end":12168.189,"text":"這些爭議稍微停止而已但是雙方都得不到一個非常公平公正的這些一個法規的遵循所以我還是建議部長啊針對本期提出這些你們有沒有檢討一下為什麼會這樣來柏定"},{"start":12170.131,"end":12184.532,"text":"跟委員報告剛才第一張照片談到這個人行道不停讓行人這個我們是絕對不會放鬆民眾可以檢舉也是這個包括記點三點、罰六千塊、到完講席這個完全沒有討論的疑惑"},{"start":12186.354,"end":12213.99,"text":"那的確說在去年這時候在立法院的修法裡面我都支持很嚴格的執法我當時覺得行人第一就是要趕快消除所以我也非常支持所以當時的提案我們有很多都接受但是有很多沒有接受但是的確在去年實施以後不管駕駛團體事實上民間也反映了很多委員辦公室都反映到"},{"start":12216.071,"end":12233.607,"text":"稍後的這個造成他們生活上的很多不便然後另外就是檢舉達人是變成非常的腐爛所以所以的確剛才委員談到我的心聲就是這個平安點非常難抓我發覺我在抓哪一個地方都另外都不滿意我在那邊騙了都不滿意啊"},{"start":12234.187,"end":12252.802,"text":"所以我才想說這一次我們把它很清楚把它寫出來我們雖然在處罰條例裡面還有差額細則裡面一千兩百元當作一個違罪我們用這個東西來談那當然每一個項目這個我也期待說這一次在立法院各委員有一個我們大家"},{"start":12254.003,"end":12280.18,"text":"即時廣義彈出一個比較好的平衡點那的確抓一千兩百元這件事我是在我要找到一個法源所以我現在就用這樣的方式我是覺得項目的確是可以討論好那其實部長跟師長啊我一直在跟林師長啊特別提醒問題是修法沒有那麼頻繁你要修了以後是要讓人家一段時間去適應、遵守"},{"start":12283.28,"end":12298.709,"text":"宣導可是我們宣導確實是做得不夠喔我們交通部想到什麼就改什麼想到接受什麼陳情你們就馬上改法條這改來改去啊說實在除了新的法規"},{"start":12299.87,"end":12325.218,"text":"要去推行那推行你要我們做任何事情你們交通部本來就是這樣啊要初級的評估規劃等等這些但是你們在修法是沒有這個步驟所以我要建議林司長在這個部分真的要修一個法可以修不是不能修而是他的後果是什麼要做好一個修法評估以後再來做"},{"start":12326.098,"end":12348.548,"text":"所以現在就這樣啊這些法條當中就是行人跟駕駛人產生對立啊所以他們講的也有理由行人也有理由所以變成今天會很矛盾所以這個部分我還是要建議我們部裡面特別特別修什麼法要做評估以後再來做最後一個我們說實在的"},{"start":12351.206,"end":12372.506,"text":"道路設計到現在我幾例台北市你說好林亭也好紅線一大堆百分之九十九但是你也沒有去做規劃那如果假設你這個要為罪不及一千二以後的林亭現在為什麼會被吊銷是林亭而起"},{"start":12373.146,"end":12401.736,"text":"那大家產生臭結就是喔闖紅燈這些闖紅燈酒駕這當然一定要祭典當然一定要處分啊但是違罪不舉的林庭部分我跟你講本來像台北市像六都現在就是設計不良嘛那這些有沒有可能就是林市長這裡你要從長規劃地方政府你是不是有一個頭上的讓人家有一個林庭的地方"},{"start":12402.456,"end":12426.176,"text":"這等等東西就包括要修法要做任何政策的推行的時候你如果去做到這一點我認為修法就不會爭議這麼大欸搞到現在立法委員這樣也不對那樣也不對所以我們會很為難那為難為什麼就是你們的規劃跟你們的說明跟你們的輔導是講不清楚嘛所以我還是認為我建議啦這個"},{"start":12431.16,"end":12448.916,"text":"這個駕駛人跟用路人這裡的教育要多加一教育讓大家多了解這樣的話以後修法就不會有疑慮好不好好謝謝林國成委員謝謝謝謝林國成委員發言完畢現在請侯孟楷委員發言"},{"start":12461.004,"end":12489.346,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請交通部王部長請王部長部長部長好直接跟你請教因為近期內本身也接獲到蠻多這個團體陳情其實有關於營業車跟貨運車這些貨運車輛他們有講到是說好像在疫情這個恢復之後可能是相關的這個保險的部分就他們就取消很多的這個保險業者就是給他們聚寶"},{"start":12490.186,"end":12505.598,"text":"尤其是說針對是說他們想要多投保一些相關的一個險甚至除了應該保的險以外的這一些這個什麼賠償的這些險啊部分就保險公司的巨保即便是他們想要提高相關的保費也沒有辦法"},{"start":12506.198,"end":12532.06,"text":"我講部長有沒有掌握到這樣的一個訊息對因為那個這主要是在保險公司跟這些職業駕駛他們認為他風險很高所以不接受他的一些但是如果說風險很高他開在路上然後因為風險高可能造成相關的交通事故那才發覺說他沒有足夠的保險能夠來去做理賠或去支應的話那會不會對於用路人的風險更高"},{"start":12533.749,"end":12559.683,"text":"會 這個我們有在處理但是他的確保險是在保險公司跟個人他們這個當然我們是期待是有充足的保險對受害人比較有保障就是應該我們期待的是大家用路上路都能夠有保一定程度的保險那如果真的發生交通事故的話也可以有最基本的理賠或是保障"},{"start":12560.343,"end":12577.326,"text":"這不管是對開車者不管是對用路者其實都是一個幫助跟保障嘛那您剛也提到了就是說因為他們風險高那就是因為他們風險高所以更應該要保險而不是說讓他們四處趴趴走但是沒有保險那他們也很無奈啊他們講說他們想保險但是找不到公司給他們保"},{"start":12578.318,"end":12599.279,"text":"我跟委員來說一下我們去年大概有幫這個婚業者跟這個所謂參選公會這邊開個平台那這個基本上他還是要回歸到這個保險的一個機制就是說高保費的部分他們因為有些這個價錢是沒有辦法負擔"},{"start":12600.08,"end":12623.283,"text":"那目前我們大概已經有把這樣的一個需求轉給金管會金管會那邊也同意說如果有碰到個案的部分那可以透過我們這個溝通平台他們會來協助但本期看起來他不是個案他是通案因為是公會這邊直接很多的公會直接來找投注無門可能你這個平台他也真的沒有辦法解決問題才會又再來找委員這邊來懲解"},{"start":12624.625,"end":12647.308,"text":"這樣好不好部長我今天點出這個問題本身也知道是說這跟金管會也有相關業務我們可能會再由正式的這個陳秦涵然後也再交集我們不管是公路局、路政司以及金管會這邊來開協調會我們來找出一個可行的方案回歸到正題今天的這個違罪不罰的部分真的"},{"start":12648.646,"end":12673.351,"text":"對於用路人來講很重要你自己也提到了交通部長任內你最這個遺憾的是沒有辦法降低這樣子一個道安的一個狀況但是很多的營業者也會覺得是說他好像如果說罰太多其實不是罰太多重點是祭典的制度有可能會剝奪他的工作權那一直有推我想先講是說一直有講是說因為這樣的一個上路檢舉而造成檢舉達人氾濫部長有沒有數據檢舉達人到底有多氾濫"},{"start":12679.895,"end":12706.901,"text":"這不要笑啊我覺得這很重要譬如說我們所謂的檢舉當然開放檢舉就代表說一般人都可以檢舉那有違規事實就檢舉那有沒有說前幾的比例譬如說八十二十法則嘛百分之八十的檢舉量都是來自百分之二十的檢舉人那有可能這樣就檢舉達人啊還是說前十名的檢舉人他一天檢舉了一百件兩百件我就覺得說他可能就變成是職業檢舉人"},{"start":12708.081,"end":12724.046,"text":"因為沒有那麼巧說我開在路上一直盯到違規嘛有沒有這樣的一個數字這個部分我們並沒有就是說單獨去做統計的但是就是說我們那一邊接就警政署這邊接到的就是很多他檢舉他"},{"start":12726.787,"end":12743.128,"text":"覺得我沒有舉發的這邊不滿的大部分大概有大概二三十個這樣的民眾時常在寫部長信箱也到交通部也到內政部那這個部分如果說要詳細的數量的話我們要再跟各縣市警察局做一個統計"},{"start":12744.429,"end":12762.797,"text":"拉回來您是這個警政署交通組組長嗎是不是好組長如果說你這樣講話本席就沒有辦法接受因為你們一直推說我這個檢舉的制度上路之後檢舉達人泛濫那我們想要知道說到底多泛濫你應該要讓我們知道說多泛濫啊"},{"start":12763.917,"end":12780.837,"text":"你應該講是說我前10名的檢舉量每天檢舉300件檢舉500件那我們合理懷疑判斷他就是檢舉達人或是檢舉魔人職業檢舉人所以要秉除這樣的狀況但你跟我講沒有沒有這個數據啊但是很泛濫啊那"},{"start":12783.171,"end":12806.617,"text":"我們就用這樣的理由去講說好我們半年前修的法然後我們現在再把它給修然後違罪不罰那又讓用路人覺得說好不容易有一點數光了好不容易真的我們希望還給用路人乾淨的一個道路空間又突然間又一千二那這樣子不就是變成是說你根本沒有一個明確的理由讓我們今天來做一個討論嗎"},{"start":12808.284,"end":12813.229,"text":"報告委員不是嗎?還是你覺得說真的是檢舉達人氾濫還是真的是台灣違規太嚴重?"},{"start":12817.315,"end":12837.954,"text":"我覺得這兩者不同喔!檢舉達人泛濫是一個人檢舉一天兩百件三百件這個叫泛濫但如果說你說每天收到很多的檢舉量那叫台灣違規太嚴重喔!很多人看到違規我就因為可以檢舉我就來檢舉那你不能講說因為你檢舉量很多所以你就說啊這樣子泛濫我覺得這完全是不同的"},{"start":12838.194,"end":12867.186,"text":"我們把那個違規檢舉的以一百一十二年八百六十九萬件裡面有百分之六十是針對停車跟違規停車那這一些的部分有很多都是某一些民眾就車子一開過去之後阿就一個盡頭來啦組長你沒有這個整理或說你根本沒有這個你不能用形容詞我覺得咱就事論事很多民眾是多少叫很多"},{"start":12867.486,"end":12894.281,"text":"好,那個組長整理好資料,向侯孟楷委員來做報告。真的啦,你們等一下,是不是主席你們等一下要逐條審查?呃,我不會這樣做。你今天沒有逐條審查?我沒有說今天就要逐條審查。你今天沒有要逐條?我們都是以最嚴謹的態度在4月3號舉辦公聽會,然後今天進行詢答,然後經過討論之後還會再找時間來做逐條。好,我肯定主席這樣的一個態度啦。"},{"start":12894.781,"end":12922.714,"text":"那最後不好意思也三十秒五月一號說重機族群他們要上街還要包圍交通部說五月一號交通起義要爭取兩輪的權益部長有沒有看到這樣的訊息有我知道他們要來那過去就是機車我還是一樣啦就是說包括他們要取消兩段式的走轉重機上國道我想這個課題在我們過去也談到就是說如果"},{"start":12924.267,"end":12949.198,"text":"這能說服上是安全的對道路安全的我們當然會接受但是在過去談到直接兩段式左轉取消並不是代表更安全那上國道更是有非常多人反對比如說這個重機的行為跟一般小汽車行為部長本期時間已經到了我只是提醒就5月1號既然又有這個遊行跟這個抗議那訴求一定要了解並且"},{"start":12949.798,"end":12968.144,"text":"我也希望說至少你要有比較高層級的主管官員能夠來接受那並且好好的研議好不好我覺得這一個部分既然有看到各族群的權益都應該要兼顧以上謝謝謝謝侯孟楷委員現在請洪森漢委員發言"},{"start":12974.761,"end":12989.586,"text":"在紅委員發言之前我們先說明一下我們道教條例修法我們都是以最嚴謹的態度當然特別條例也應該要這麼嚴謹雖然是小道像道教條例但是它關係到民眾的"},{"start":12990.626,"end":13016.872,"text":"生命的安全、交通的安全所以我們都是先召開公聽會然後在今天正式的一個詢答然後經過討論之後讓交通部去做相關法令的這樣的一個調整的思考然後再找時間來做主條的一個討論我們不會說一天之內就要很快就要把它討論完畢然後也沒有讓大家吃飯然後就要主條的這樣的一個通過"},{"start":13018.112,"end":13024.241,"text":"我們都是以最嚴謹的態度不好意思請黃生漢委員發言請王部長請部長"},{"start":13032.228,"end":13059.634,"text":"部長最近關於道交條例又再次的修法當然引起很多各界的討論其實這些討論也都還餘波蕩漾那我今天還是想針對這部分來跟部長來討論幾個事情就是說其實我們如果回顧去年到現在從一開始就是從台灣的這個所謂行人的安全的狀況得到受到國際媒體的關注之後"},{"start":13060.794,"end":13081.233,"text":"其實我覺得我們很多討論都一直圍繞著怎麼祭典怎麼檢舉怎麼提高罰則其實大概都很多尤其在立法院的討論裡面很多都聚焦在這些末端管制的角度來去處理問題坦白說我認為這也是我們現在遇到這個左右為難的問題之所在"},{"start":13083.815,"end":13097.367,"text":"我講部長一定很清楚知道如果我們從交通安全管理的角度來說的話大家一直在講到所謂交通的三一工程教育執法裡面我們剛才在講末端管制就是最後的這個一直都是這個執法端該怎麼執法的這個問題"},{"start":13099.028,"end":13125.523,"text":"但一直以來對於工程端跟教育端的討論比較少但工程端其實我認為行政部門是有處理的包括去年這個在我們這個行政綱領裡面這個4年400億的經費包括前幾天剛三讀通過的這個行政安全設施條例裡面就是要去處理工程的問題但一直比較少處理的其實是所謂這個教育的問題"},{"start":13126.96,"end":13140.817,"text":"那部長我知道我們其實從駕駛者管理的角度來說現在大概靠幾個環節在處理第一個大概是駕照的核發然後後面大概有所謂吊扣吊銷來做管理但我這邊想問部長針對很多這些高風險的駕駛者"},{"start":13145.868,"end":13171.53,"text":"我想大家其實確實應該把我們的焦點放在所謂高風險的駕駛者其實一開始的時候我想那時候覺得說我們去年在修法覺得要擴大祭典其實有一個核心的想法是覺得說我們要怎麼淘汰或怎麼面對這些這個不良的駕駛其實有這個念頭所以我想問的問題是如果針對這些高風險的駕駛者也就是被吊扣或吊銷駕照的駕駛者"},{"start":13173.351,"end":13202.301,"text":"交通部現在有什麼管理或教育訓練的機制目前主要當然一般的這個有另外一個就是道安獎席啊是道安獎席就是說有些項目你回國以後就去參加比如說不聽他們講的部長你有參加過道安獎席嗎年輕的時候部長我也參加過年輕的時候你覺得道安獎席參加完道安獎席參加完跟參加後你有沒有從這個道安獎席裡面獲得更多的收穫"},{"start":13204.287,"end":13231.959,"text":"年輕的時候是感覺去非常沒有面子讓我更遵守法規倒不是從教育面是不想去大安講習不想去大安所以這變成是一種羞辱機制喔對對是你覺得是大安講習重點是重點是讓駕駛者覺得抱歉我在講我年輕我講我年輕的時候你講你年輕的時候現在不是那你現在是一個制度設計者現在要有教育的科目對對是這個"},{"start":13234.34,"end":13249.71,"text":"這個不然我就先跟你問喔其實我知道去年交通部有公告有預告這個交通安全規則的修法針對高風險價值喔包括吊銷、吊扣一年以上、吊扣一年以下有做了一些區分喔那去年你完成預告那目前進度會怎樣"},{"start":13250.632,"end":13252.733,"text":"所以我們用吊扣駕照一年以上跟以下來區分嘛對不對然後呢"},{"start":13279.048,"end":13305.167,"text":"那這次再加入檢討就是說他要以一個六年的週期比如說吊銷駕駛執照重新考領只能領一年有效那這是每年每年那這個部分去年預告現在接下來進度會怎麼樣那我們現在正在重新調整這個道安規則的一個那有沒有期程那現在頭等完之後我們會重新再做預告會重新再做預告那什麼時候會預告在這個4月底之前我們會來辦理預告那個"},{"start":13307.58,"end":13331.762,"text":"市長齁我要跟你們說其實這全部是一個完整的大家針對為什麼針對祭典的事情有這麼多的爭論當時就是覺得這些高風險的價值或者違規的價值或者是不良的價值你要怎麼樣去面對它其實用祭典的做法所以我覺得今天假設我們覺得祭典的做法不是最好的做法祭典做法有其瑕疵那我們要跟人家講清楚那我覺得替代性的做法是什麼"},{"start":13332.583,"end":13361.309,"text":"那今天包括針對高風險駕駛的這個教育的問題包括是剛剛講說駕照換照的這個問題該講清楚的我覺得我們應該講清楚包括後面的期程告訴大家我不是今天我不用祭典以後我對高風險的駕駛我就雙手一攤重點是我針對這些高風險駕駛我要用什麼做法包括這做法還有沒有精進的空間我覺得這都應該一併的拿出來討論這是我要說的所以對於剛剛說的這些駕照或者是核發這些相關的修法"},{"start":13361.949,"end":13373.858,"text":"假如要重新預告就讓大家知道我什麼時候預告我的內容是什麼東西還有沒有哪些調整跟經濟的空間都應該在這次修法的時候講清楚這是第一點我要講的第二點我要回到剛剛部長講道安講習我說實話我也參加過道安講習啦我參加過"},{"start":13377.481,"end":13400.051,"text":"但基本上道安講習的內容就是叫你什麼不要酒駕不要違規大家都講這些事情我覺得部長你可以下去你可以發個問卷問大家一下經過道安講習以後參與過道安講習的人有沒有得到什麼新的收穫我跟大家講道安講習裡面連最近我們哪些法規有新修都無法從上面得知啊"},{"start":13401.127,"end":13415.483,"text":"所以為什麽現在弄到很多人抱怨是很多人都是在法規修了以後你都是被處罰了以後你才知道有什麽法規修正不然你覺得這OK嗎?是,我想道遠講行應該是針對比如說你各種違規的太陽"},{"start":13417.219,"end":13438.28,"text":"作為一個再教育,我想這部分事實上我也跟公務局談過在這個相關的教材要不斷的更新,新的法規要不斷... 不然我覺得我們就應該明確的要求今天尤其針對高風險的價值,它就應該擔負起更多的更大的回訊的責任包括它可能要被教育的這個內容都應該更多尤其是"},{"start":13438.78,"end":13452.599,"text":"我們為什麼我都一直搞不清楚為什麼我們沒有一個機制甚至在這些講習裡面都不見你要把道路的法規的變更告訴我們的價值甚至是被被處罰的人為什麼到現在為止都沒有好"},{"start":13453.496,"end":13454.337,"text":"我到現在為止去年包括我去年修了什麼法"},{"start":13471.798,"end":13486.87,"text":"所以大家要多注意什麼事情都沒有在道安講習裡面能夠呈現像這種教育內容的調整好不好一個月一個月提出新的道安講習的內容調整的報告可以嗎一個月部長可以嗎謝謝現在請楊瓊英委員發言"},{"start":13503.992,"end":13507.094,"text":"謝謝主席。本席想邀請部長。請部長。委託不計點要上路。那麼當然也有人憂心行人安全會倒退路嗎?但是我們知道就正如剛剛部長所說的取消二段式的左轉。"},{"start":13528.604,"end":13554.417,"text":"結果我們在盤查結果是反而更危險所以道交的條例裡頭呢要怎麼樣去好好調整就是當我們制定了之後還是要非常嚴謹那所以就誠如剛剛主席才所說的那不管是公聽會啦大家好好地去研討因為是名稱每一天都會用到的所以本期要跟你討論的就是說"},{"start":13556.878,"end":13582.748,"text":"認為記憶點的方式呢不應該是以金額的大小去做決定而是應該是以它的安全性跟它的危險點來做決定你覺得這樣子的論點你可以同意嗎對我想我們這次是主要從處罰條例九十二條跟裁判細則的第十二條裡面的一千兩百元就是警察如果在這種狀況可以欠倒趨利不處罰"},{"start":13584.048,"end":13600.327,"text":"用這樣來用所以就是有學者來挑戰了喔有學者來挑戰就是說不是因為金額的問題比如說像我們在學校大賣場的周邊這樣子那應該是要以他的安全性跟危險點"},{"start":13602.785,"end":13617.08,"text":"是不是有討論的空間?我覺得這樣,我們現在找到的法源就是過去警察看他違規但是不開罰單叫他趕快走這一種來用一千兩百元但是對於項目我想我尊重大家可以做一些討論"},{"start":13618.061,"end":13629.451,"text":"就是所以呢應該是違規的頻率跟它的嚴重度跟可控制的原因來作為分析那這個應該要納入一起去討論所以我們看到以調扣的駕照數量來看2023年5萬470件2022年是6萬9620件"},{"start":13644.804,"end":13660.44,"text":"去年下降到1.9萬件那表示是有在增進但是這個增進也讓民眾有很多像這個有很多固定的檢舉達人也讓民眾苦不堪言"},{"start":13661.661,"end":13681.995,"text":"所以在這種情況之下我們在討論的時候本期就希望不是只依照金額來制定而是應該以他的安全度跟危險度來作為定律來加入討論的空間那也謝謝部長剛剛你也同意將他加入大家好好來討論因為我們希望"},{"start":13683.055,"end":13700.908,"text":"行人安全為本來改善交通的這個事故的目標這個是我們的目標好那接下來本席要也特別再次強調在學區以及這個商業的林庭的這個部分要怎麼樣去調整"},{"start":13701.969,"end":13729.706,"text":"因為一方面要便利二方面又要安全這個要好好地來做檢討那第二個本席要跟你討論的是這個你們要推動的停讓文化2.0對不對停讓文化2.0我們看到交通部的數字行人死亡去年380人那麼當然較前年前一年的少了14人這個我們是暫許要越來越少"},{"start":13730.626,"end":13746.694,"text":"但是我們看到下半年度呢,我們看到包括了3486處的入口,我們樓下的行人安全設施以及將近168公里的人行道的這個改善"},{"start":13747.774,"end":13762.594,"text":"那這個跟我們要要求推的停讓文化2.0呢這個非常重要所以因此大型車落實在路口停讓的制度必須務必一定要好好的來加強對不對"},{"start":13764.416,"end":13780.467,"text":"這個我們不只大型車啦。所有的車子包括機車、汽車到這個人行道都要停讓行人。這是我們現在的政策。而且現在也有綜合、六千元、這個三點還有這個包括這個大文獎席啦。"},{"start":13781.067,"end":13796.314,"text":"所以我們這個部分就是那另外就是你談到工程工程面我們必須討論比如說過去還談到行川縣要退收這個課題這個比較容易造成這個他沒有看到新人這個部分也持續在進行"},{"start":13797.268,"end":13823.527,"text":"這個非常重要所以本席也特別把你的這個公里數把你3000多個這個入口處這個我們都要積極去落實因為你必須要把它規劃好它才有辦法讓你加成上去的這個停讓文化2.0才能夠保障人民的安全請說我們現在四年四百億歡迎地方政府提案我們會補助"},{"start":13824.888,"end":13848.958,"text":"議長,你講到這一點我就本期覺得很奇怪。有錢人家不提。你這個問題出在哪裡?你不要好好去檢討好不好?我本來沒要跟你講這麼多,你自己拿出來。對不對?你把那個申請的SOP流程是不是可以怎麼樣哪裡去精簡好不好?你把它順便資料給本席,因為主席站出來。那我在一分鐘主席。好。那這個兩岸觀光開放"},{"start":13853.32,"end":13874.803,"text":"不排除提早是不是啊預計要接你的這個李孟燕先生說兩岸觀光將依對等開放原則循序推動兩岸團體旅遊如果路方有善意的回應不排除提早進行適當調整你是不是樂觀其成"},{"start":13875.303,"end":13900.977,"text":"我們現在就是在等一個善意的回應你是不是樂觀其成對啊我就等了善意的回應是不是樂觀其成那當時誰決定要終止呢對不對現在換一個部長喔他的說法是如此喔所以等於你喔是你的時間來做宣布喔原本3月份呢要恢復嘛那你現在又只允許到5月31號可以出團是不是啊"},{"start":13901.237,"end":13903.439,"text":"我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我"},{"start":13923.092,"end":13949.42,"text":"好謝謝謝謝楊瓊瑩委員現在請羅明財委員發言羅明財委員羅明財委員不在現在請鄭正前委員發言鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在現在請邱志偉委員發言邱志偉委員邱志偉委員不在現在請徐欣盈委員發言"},{"start":13950.64,"end":13972.353,"text":"徐新穎委員徐新穎委員不在現在請陳冠廷委員發言陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在現在請張家俊委員發言張家俊委員張家俊委員不在現在請吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員不在現在請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":13988.623,"end":13995.589,"text":"謝謝主席。請麻煩有請部長。請王部長。那個主席對不起我稍微暫停一下。"},{"start":13996.8,"end":14021.681,"text":"喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂"},{"start":14021.801,"end":14046.809,"text":"那在您今天所提出的書面報告當中就是說您點到說這次的修法是希望以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段工程的改善其實你也知道路權團體大家都支持讓我們整個道路的設計上可以容納更多不同的需求這個大方向上大家都同意"},{"start":14047.589,"end":14062.234,"text":"但現在產生最大的爭執是什麼?產生最大的爭執是說你的工程改善手段先做代替先立執法吧?你覺得你的工程改善手段要多久?"},{"start":14063.001,"end":14065.764,"text":"我希望是那時候是全國都該做人行到該什麼都要做"},{"start":14086.304,"end":14097.861,"text":"4年嘛對但是不是說到4年才有完整的結果階段性一直一直改善這樣子那所以你認為什麼時候這個先替代監理執行手段的替代可以完成"},{"start":14099.164,"end":14119.53,"text":"要看事實上也不見得等到4年啦對就比如說你如果會比4年還短嗎因為如果地方政府很積極我們現在是補助欸就給像今年今年是完好啦全部補助欸沒有關係啊如果做得好當然部長你要卸任以前提出了一個很重要的目標我相信下一屆的交通部部長聽到您今天講的4年之內喔4年之內"},{"start":14123.551,"end":14137.759,"text":"這件事情要做完當然這次行政院的修法理由提說相關的職業工會反映嚴重影響職業駕駛人的工作權也造成警察機關執法量能龐大的負擔"},{"start":14139.758,"end":14154.074,"text":"我們就就事論事來看當道路交通設計上面您現在歸咎於這個產生了一些相通途的狀態的時候那我一向的立場是我們要就事論事可能不是一個全有全無的"},{"start":14154.935,"end":14179.626,"text":"也不是說你們這是提出來的那行為入權團體大家都要照單全收我們還是要就事論事一點一點的來看嘛這樣的立場部長你贊不贊成我贊成你贊成嗎就是說這一次的確我們要找這個平衡點我們從這個用一千兩百元那這有十項我現在關心的倒不是錢的事情"},{"start":14180.586,"end":14204.765,"text":"因為錢的事情你反映出來的是說他在行政罰環上面的可罰性、可捨難性有多高嗎?但我現在思考的觀點是說當你用錢當標準的時候會不會有盲點?所謂有盲點是說我們現在是希望在我們道路交通設計各方面就是講不完善可能講得比較客氣啦在這個之前"},{"start":14206.447,"end":14231.723,"text":"兩邊的利害關係我們怎麼去balance?那行政入選團體因為你去年夏天你也上過凱道嘛你也做過承諾嘛所以對於他們來講交通部現在的態度讓他們有一點難以接受所以我才說是不是有可能不要全有全無具體的來看嘛第一個事情是說他們說是卸貨停車格不足這個是他們反映出來的心聲嘛"},{"start":14233.137,"end":14260.9,"text":"但你卸貨停車有不足用身心專用停車位這樣好嗎?這樣對我們的身心障礙的朋友這樣真的好嗎?這個利害關係的balance部長您覺得呢?事實上這十項裡面這一項我是覺得是可以繼續開放民眾檢舉我覺得身上專用停車位這個部分是比較嚴肅因為他們停車位已經很少了我是覺得"},{"start":14262.202,"end":14277.522,"text":"這十項裡面這一項我是支持支持部長我喜歡你這樣的態度就是論事嘛也不要因為行政院有題版本出來就要硬幹到底第一項你已經點頭了那我們再看第二項"},{"start":14279.592,"end":14298.958,"text":"那人行道的部分您覺得呢?你看齁這個相片啦齁是一個滿關心路人團體齁也是我自己滿好的朋友但我提出來質詢不是因為他是我的好朋友啦是為了所有的行人齁chip他貼的啊你車車你車車到這樣你是要叫人安這個太離譜了吧"},{"start":14304.26,"end":14321.906,"text":"這個就是你剛才談到的這個環境沒有整頓好的 對對對對齁他停在紅線上是一回事喔他是整台車插在人行道上欸 啊這樣還不能檢查是安裝可以檢查所以我猜我們有時候用抽象的文字不容易描述具體的狀況嘛"},{"start":14323.146,"end":14344.577,"text":"我們不要就看一張照片勝過千言萬語這個就是打110啦打110警察馬上來處理而且這個齁在地方的這個停管單位他有偷掉車也可以直接偷掉那個今天警政署有來嗎有來那個警政署有沒有統計過依照我們現在警察同仁的負擔齁那這種的狀況我卡電話過大概幾分鐘可以趕到"},{"start":14350.237,"end":14375.691,"text":"這個部分我沒辦法把握因為要看看就是說10當時接受接受到多少案件部長你有沒有聽到警政署講的所以只要就是說我了解部長你有沒有聽到警政署講的我想這一部分繼續溝通啦我想說這個在現在這個是因為這個停產沒有關係主席站起來我現在只關心第三個太陽"},{"start":14377.385,"end":14389.754,"text":"謂這種大型的剎車、拖拉庫、倒車的時候常常釀成悲劇嘛。這我們常看到嘛。那你說大型車倒車釀成悲劇,這樣誇張的狀況你叫警察來拖拉庫照就照啊啦。"},{"start":14393.789,"end":14418.808,"text":"部長你同不同意?我想這個部分這個的確我們這次1200就是這個從市長好跟委員你如果每一項去討論的確好像看起來每一項都開放但是的確在整個這個沒有沒有沒有部長你不要把我具體問題都抽無象化的你答詢的技巧非常厲害試圖把具體問題都抽象化可以討論"},{"start":14421.45,"end":14445.084,"text":"這個為什麼會很關心因為齁真的有很多人是因為這樣上命輪下人命最重要第二個這種太陽會靠電話叫警察來喔車早就不曉得去哪裡了啦部長這一點你覺得要不要有沒有值得需要再考慮的地方可以討論可以討論嘛主席站起來了謝謝"},{"start":14446.802,"end":14459.019,"text":"好謝謝王國昌委員發言完畢現在請陳雪生委員陳雪生委員陳雪生委員不在現在請游浩委員發言"},{"start":14478.129,"end":14478.15,"text":"報告。"},{"start":14486.83,"end":14509.55,"text":"有緣好謝謝部長好那延續了剛才許多委員提到包括這一次的交通安全其實不管是修法的部分那還有許多不管是行人用路權那其實包括上次的研討會那相信都已經經過了許多的探討那本期想要在這裡先就教一下部長"},{"start":14510.211,"end":14531.585,"text":"但那時候在地震的時候我知道交通部也是在全面的在協助救災啦那時候您也特別來出席了公聽會那公聽會到現在也差不多有兩個禮拜那時候的公聽會許多的團體包括委員其實都有表達很多的一些建議跟看法"},{"start":14532.105,"end":14546.73,"text":"不管是駕駛人的團體或是用路人的團體那本人想要請教一下針對那次的公聽會所做的那麼多的一個重點或是結論交通部對於公聽會的這些建言建議有沒有提出什麼樣的具體回應"},{"start":14548.577,"end":14571.828,"text":"就是那一天討論完以後大概有幾項我個人是覺得是可以討論的其中第一個就是身心障礙停車位的占用我個人是支持這個還是納到可以檢舉的項目因為身心障礙者他找這個停車位有時候不是那麼容易然後另外也有談到這個未帶安全帽可不可以開放檢舉這件事"},{"start":14573.129,"end":14600.636,"text":"那因為未帶安全帽事實上是一個很危險的發生車禍很危險的這部分我覺得可以討論我想說在這一次在這十項裡面我們用一二零零是主要是找到道交條例跟才華細則有的這個基礎下的產物但是的確各個委員所談到單項裡面我看今天委員都有談到單項裡面我覺得可以討論如果它本身是"},{"start":14601.656,"end":14628.612,"text":"是大家覺得是這個危險的我是覺得可以討論所以在上次的公聽會完了之後主要這兩點是認為應該要加入納入的因為最主要是公聽會當天沒有辦法去做詢答嘛所以說許多的建議來講希望能夠具體的能夠被交通部聽到而且能夠被納入那所以部長也針對這兩點的話有做一個具體的回應因為"},{"start":14629.492,"end":14653.77,"text":"這些工程會大家積極地準備,尤其這些團體還遠道而來,所以這些重點的一些建議啊,所以我是希望能夠去具體時間也不能夠闖過所無痕啊,那所以部長是有做具體回應。是,我想我想那個今天詢答完可能未來就是委員的提案啊,我想也歡迎委員覺得哪一些單項,一些建議就可以提案。這個剛剛是有在做整理。對,就在提案,是。"},{"start":14654.471,"end":14668.371,"text":"對那再來的話我想接著請教一下警政署在過去一年加強執法在降低行人入口死傷及死亡方面成效如何那因為今天警政署有來那在去年5月到今年3月共開出了12.3萬多張的紅單"},{"start":14670.874,"end":14696.719,"text":"那路口不禮讓行人那這樣子的開的這個單數是非常的多但是想問一下那這樣子在去年跟今年對這個績效如何你覺得對改善這個死傷的這個數據這樣請警政署回答一下有執法之後還有其他的宣導在有關於行人死亡的這個部分在"},{"start":14699.198,"end":14699.598,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":14717.56,"end":14732.997,"text":"那個新人少了14人啦。死亡少14人。14人。好沒關係因為我們是拿那個區間比較但是不管是區間怎麼樣去做比較14人也好、一人也好但是這個績效跟成效我相信還要持續加強所以說還不夠還不夠嘛"},{"start":14735.299,"end":14762.957,"text":"所以還不是很滿意嗎?那就繼續改善那同樣的這也牽扯出不管是剛才其他委員有提到的宣導的部分不管剛才楊瓊英委員還有包括黃國昌委員有提到那其實在許多的宣導上面是還是不夠的那不管是到案講習這不是說部長去到案講習而是說大家在許多的民眾不管是被罰的去到案之外在許多的學校或是民眾"},{"start":14764.457,"end":14768.239,"text":"交通部主管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案。"},{"start":14790.246,"end":14816.582,"text":"第一個現在我們跟教育部有一個教材他是叫五階段教材一萬年級一套三、四然後五、六然後國中、高中總共五套那現在這個教育已經納到有很多的版本看康軒他們也在納入教材裡面這是在裡面的然後第二個是在老人的部分老人部分我們現在有大概一千六百人的路老師"},{"start":14817.903,"end":14818.184,"text":"報告報告報告"},{"start":14837.413,"end":14853.335,"text":"我本期還是建議一下就是說在這個宣導的部分其實確實還是不夠那因為如果說像是我跟團隊全面在跑地方的各種活動其實在交通安全的這個場次那在這個宣導的部分"},{"start":14853.976,"end":14872.903,"text":"第一就是場次不夠次數不夠面相不夠管還對於受眾的部分包括這些民眾他們其實能夠的普遍的在接受這個講習跟跟這個宣導的其實需要再做持續加強甚至在不管是電視或是網路上其實需要持續加強因為"},{"start":14874.304,"end":14893.784,"text":"韓國昌委員提到那個畫面嘛就是大貨車這個輪廈的部分所以我們其實在地方上有時候在這個沙石車專用道還是常常會發現沙石車在開民眾也還是騎著機車就旁邊要超越這個沙石車啊那所以說這個部分都還是在於宣導的部分"},{"start":14894.465,"end":14920.828,"text":"那最後的話本席還是想要針對這個駕駛人的這個工作權有關於他們有在提到有包括在卸貨或是計程車那他們在停靠的部分本席直接建議因為時間有限因為如果在做於交通不管是行人或是包括許多駕駛人的部分去做法規的檢討的時候其實像現在的不斷的修正的法規應該交通部如何規劃"},{"start":14921.849,"end":14949.746,"text":"各縣市政府能夠配合在許多重要人常常出入的商街街道能夠重新再去規劃劃設他們的這個停車格不管是說因為一般來講都是民眾反映民意代表到最後來去做會刊、縣刊可是如何做整體的一個針對不管是計程車或者是包括我們許多的卸貨區來能夠做一個通盤檢討而且由教育部的那個交通部這邊主動"},{"start":14950.646,"end":14971.508,"text":"交通部主動來去主導讓縣市政府來配合這樣子也才能有效的減低不管是被檢舉違規檢舉或是平常在這樣被開罰的情況想請教一下部長有沒有方案已經說不會被完成現在已經有方案就是包括這個剛才停車這個專用停車格的部分"},{"start":14972.128,"end":14986.635,"text":"報告話黃縣的部分。我們的借貸性的成果是在今年6月底,就各縣市執行的成果會回報。那的確就是說這個就是這個您之前所談到的,就是說環境如果沒有弄好,變成他"},{"start":14987.415,"end":15008.833,"text":"不得不違規那這個就是我們在執法上的這個理由比較不充分這也是這次我們修法裡面就是說這些相關的環境的配套是政府應該負的責任所以我們現在有4年4百億的預算在補助地方政府包括南投都可以來申請了我們都會補助他去做這些人行停車格的設施"},{"start":15009.634,"end":15032.868,"text":"我想這部分就是同時說非常同意就是說教育你剛剛談到教育那工程現在在做然後執法可能在目前要做一些前移的調整最後一句就是6月底前的時候到時候還是請部內的同仁把各縣市的一個執行跟通販檢討改善的情況也跟交通委員會委員做報告謝謝登記質詢委員軍旅發言完畢做一下決定"},{"start":15040.103,"end":15063.023,"text":"報告及詢答完畢。委員曾俊宇所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報。委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分,請交通部盡速與書面答覆。我們現在要進行討論事項第一案,交通部主管預算凍結案計31案的審查,請議事人員宣讀。"},{"start":15069.083,"end":15077.012,"text":"討論事項一審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案以下31案交通部函一至七檢証該部決議以業務費向下委辦費預算凍結十分之一書面報告案"},{"start":15087.073,"end":15110.502,"text":"決議二、第一目交通科技研究發展預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議三、第二目一般行政預算凍結五百萬元書面報告案。決議四、第三目交通運輸規劃及產業發展預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議五、第四目第一節國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。"},{"start":15111.203,"end":15125.963,"text":"決議六、第六目都市大眾捷運系統建設計畫預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議四十四、第三目第一節路政管理預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。八及九"},{"start":15126.864,"end":15150.465,"text":"檢証民用航空局決議一第一目一般行政預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議二第二目空運管理業務預算凍結一百萬元書面報告案。時至時是檢証中央氣象署決議一設備及投資預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議二委辦費預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議三氣象科技研究發展預算凍結五百萬元。"},{"start":15152.447,"end":15168.248,"text":"書面報告案決議四一般行政預算凍結一百萬元書面報告案決議五氣象預報預算凍結八十萬元書面報告案十五至十七檢証觀光署及所屬決議一觀光業務預算凍結五百萬元書面報告案決議二"},{"start":15171.211,"end":15193.59,"text":"國家風景區開發與管理預算凍結五百萬元書面報告案決議二十九提升臺灣旅宿網知使用成效預算凍結書面報告案十八至二十檢送運輸研究所決議一優惠向下委辦費預算凍結十分之一書面報告案決議二第一目"},{"start":15195.562,"end":15204.725,"text":"運輸科技應用研究業務預算凍結十分之一書面報告案決議三第三目運輸研究業務預算凍結十分之一書面報告案21至25檢証公路局及所屬決議一公路級監理業務管理預算凍結十分之一書面報告案"},{"start":15213.927,"end":15231.215,"text":"決議二、第三目公路建設及改善計劃預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。決議二十五、第一目第二節基本行政工作維持預算凍結二十分之一書面報告案。決議二十六、監理業務預算凍結五百萬元書面報告案。決議二十七、監理業務預算凍結兩百萬元書面報告案。"},{"start":15235.897,"end":15262.529,"text":"二十六至二十八檢証鐵道局及所屬決議一第一目一般行政預算凍結十分之一書面報告案決議二第二目鐵道業務預算凍結五十萬元書面報告案決議三第三目國家鐵道建設與管理預算凍結十分之一書面報告案二十九至三十一檢証航港局決議一第二目航港業務管理及發展預算凍結一千萬元書面報告案"},{"start":15265.131,"end":15287.053,"text":"決議二、第三目偏遠地區交通建設預算凍結五千萬元書面報告案。決議十六、第二目航港業務管理及發展預算凍結十分之一書面報告案。宣讀完畢。好,以上31案請問各位委員有沒有意見?好,林國成委員。"},{"start":15290.253,"end":15319.11,"text":"我想特別建議主席還有我們各部會你要解凍當然因為這些會被凍結當然有其原因但是我看到這裡面你們答覆的東西是太官樣文章因為會被凍結就是因為委員不太了解但是你們在說明當中我建請"},{"start":15320.788,"end":15339.728,"text":"未來在交通體系裡面要凍結的要寫清楚一點也就是你像五月份啊你給我凍結我還要繼續凍結所以我用的錢不夠啦那這個原因是什麼這個是第一點第二點跟主席建議有沒有可能"},{"start":15341.029,"end":15366.511,"text":"當初凍結的委員的名字也修出來這樣會比較了解所以至於這些我做以上這兩點建議好謝謝林國成委員的發言第一個林國成委員的建議很有道理交通部必須針對相關要解凍的這些預算必須說明清楚避免官樣的文章"},{"start":15367.572,"end":15381.797,"text":"那第二有關是否將當初提案的委員我們一切按照議事規則來做處理那請問各位委員有沒有意見好沒有意見來來邱若驊委員"},{"start":15383.046,"end":15411.916,"text":"我這邊也有提問關於第九案這邊這邊有提到協同地方政府及相關產業加強行銷擴大空運市場是只有針對台中中部的機場嗎還是桃園來民安局交通部請說明民安局或者是交通部麥克風"},{"start":15413.669,"end":15422.227,"text":"請議事人員處理。沒關係的,就在座位上說明就好。"},{"start":15433.959,"end":15455.996,"text":"各位有關剛剛提到的空運的部分鼓勵多元的航空站基本上我們在做各個機場的相關的業務的推廣的話是包含各個機場那當然桃機的部分是由桃機在做處理那其他的幾個機場是民航局這邊來做處理好謝謝局長說明那這邊另外第15"},{"start":15461.161,"end":15464.383,"text":"交通部觀光署及所屬的觀光業務預算凍結500萬比這邊要提續凍200萬"},{"start":15476.243,"end":15490.637,"text":"來請來請那個邱若驊委員要續動兩百萬請問因為我們都是在做現在我們尤其是地震之後我們真的很需要能夠振興國旅所以委員特別報告一下我們希望能夠"},{"start":15492.338,"end":15519.949,"text":"有幾個部分能夠強力來行銷那麼希望能夠活動大型化也希望能夠推台灣PASS的一些優惠所以這個凍結部分是不是可以允許不要再凍結?署長您提到國旅我想業者然後包括國人都不買單像之前有提到有提到就是平日旅遊但平日那民眾都是要工作的啊所以這個沒有效益然後再加上呃"},{"start":15523.691,"end":15543.682,"text":"國慮也沒有實際上面的改善那房價也還是很高那補助一千五百元那我想之前有提出補助一千五嗎用補助的方式去提升國慮沒有沒有那個是因為有一些要振興的部分才用用補助的方式比如說我們這樣花蓮這個部分我們現在才"},{"start":15544.862,"end":15563.341,"text":"等到整體的部分再用徵信的方式是對那這個部分當時在這個觀光業務的部分它所凍結這500萬的部分我們現在也確實有在執行不能再那花蓮的觀光目前也還在修復當中嗎對我們有山坡嘛"},{"start":15563.941,"end":15584.295,"text":"第一波已經做一些我們這些融資貸款第二波的話就是因為有些這個居民的房子不能再住了所以我們做一些媒合讓他們提供旅館跟民宿第三波的話我們就是要開始提振興的方案對有自由行跟團體旅遊"},{"start":15585.643,"end":15599.623,"text":"什麼時候會公佈正式的方案?我們今天下午會在行政院做討論是那這個部分還是麻煩委員是那個主席OK"},{"start":15601.659,"end":15624.509,"text":"請林國成委員發言其實因為邱委員談這些啊就剛才我第一個開宗明義所談的你們這寫這些東西啊就是講快一點光明堂皇你們做什麼我們根本看不清楚但是不管任何黨派、交通委員來解凍這些那當然我剛才已經講過了"},{"start":15625.729,"end":15646.222,"text":"其他的委員解凍一定有他的理由但是你們要解凍也不談理由所以難怪邱委員對這個是有質疑在整個觀光當然五百萬不算多啦啊他要凍你兩百萬說實在啦齁說實在話現在只有四月份他凍兩百萬"},{"start":15652.849,"end":15665.164,"text":"稍微糟急的會議我們隨時也可以去提這個但是我坦白講卓局長你剛才這個是因為邱委員提出來如果是我提出來你也沒有辦法說服我欸"},{"start":15666.105,"end":15693.377,"text":"你剛才講那些只有你知道委員都不知道你叫我們委員怎麼去支出像這些東西像公路像現在民航像現在氣象局這些預算我們基本上我們會讓他解凍啊為什麼地震需要這些然後民航這些需要做公路需要修所以我們立法委員不是不講理的像這類的東西"},{"start":15694.798,"end":15718.136,"text":"我們真的是蠻支持讓他解凍所以這個部分主席我是這樣建議是不是州局長再跟邱委員把它談清楚沒關係我們請其他委員有沒有意見好有沒有意見沒有意見是這樣"},{"start":15726.345,"end":15753.603,"text":"好,沒關係我們先處理,其實這案先保留齁,其他的有沒有意見?其他的沒有意見,那請問邱若驊委員,針對你提出的畜動兩百萬這個提案你有堅持嗎?還是要周署長跟你做說明?再請署長會後說明,好,謝謝。那就同意啦。說明完了以後必須要清楚的說明啦齁。"},{"start":15754.764,"end":15771.124,"text":"好那個局長周署長親自帶著相關的承辦人員向邱若驊委員做明確的說明那個這個案我們就解凍。好均同意動之提報宴會那"},{"start":15776.464,"end":15802.291,"text":"討論事項針對本日會議做以下決議。討論事項第一案交通部主管預算凍結案計31案均同意動之提報院會討論事項第二案道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及六十三條之二條文修正草案我們另擇期繼續審查本日議程處理完畢散會"},{"start":15824.108,"end":15832.371,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":15835.582,"end":15837.223,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":15870.347,"end":15870.367,"text":"報告。"}]}},{"id":"15825","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15825","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db0a0e131ea932df620cc1067dc387cc1f3be8d109af184be44f555f15dde759c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:31:46+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:42:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":15014,"委員發言時間":"08:31:46 - 12:42:00","影片長度":"04:10:14","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":488.79846875000004,"end":489.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1704.6590937500002,"end":1708.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":1709.7215937500002,"end":1713.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1714.3284687500002,"end":1717.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1717.4672187500003,"end":1719.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1722.0740937500002,"end":1730.3597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1730.6972187500003,"end":1742.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1743.2859687500002,"end":1748.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1748.87159375,"end":1751.9259687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1752.2128437500003,"end":1756.5328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1756.8028437500002,"end":1759.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1759.3172187500002,"end":1765.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1765.61159375,"end":1783.1109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1784.0897187500002,"end":1792.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1793.28659375,"end":1819.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1821.3665937500002,"end":1838.8322187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1839.4059687500003,"end":1854.1209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1855.3865937500002,"end":1867.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1867.55346875,"end":1872.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1872.4134687500002,"end":1880.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1880.5134687500001,"end":1881.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1881.6947187500002,"end":1886.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1886.5547187500001,"end":1890.9590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1891.1109687500002,"end":1891.6678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1892.02221875,"end":1931.4759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1932.23534375,"end":1938.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1939.6265937500002,"end":1951.1522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1951.5572187500002,"end":1958.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1959.0834687500003,"end":1965.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1965.4959687500002,"end":1966.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1966.96409375,"end":1977.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1977.9665937500001,"end":1990.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1990.58909375,"end":1998.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1999.31346875,"end":2006.1309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2006.3840937500001,"end":2011.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2011.14284375,"end":2024.5753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2024.9465937500001,"end":2029.5365937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2030.0259687500002,"end":2038.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2038.2947187500001,"end":2044.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2044.18409375,"end":2053.8028437499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2054.9334687500004,"end":2061.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2062.07159375,"end":2072.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2072.73659375,"end":2083.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2083.48596875,"end":2088.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2089.0547187500006,"end":2093.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2094.37034375,"end":2099.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2100.2428437500002,"end":2108.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2108.7647187500006,"end":2118.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2118.85596875,"end":2121.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2127.1415937500005,"end":2127.6140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2128.1034687500005,"end":2135.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2135.0390937500006,"end":2136.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2137.0134687500004,"end":2137.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2137.0303437500006,"end":2150.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2153.2978437500005,"end":2168.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2176.9903437500006,"end":2186.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2186.71034375,"end":2190.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2190.1022187500002,"end":2201.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2201.52659375,"end":2206.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2206.28534375,"end":2227.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2227.32846875,"end":2236.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2236.44096875,"end":2245.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2246.1609687500004,"end":2287.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2287.5215937500006,"end":2301.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2302.01721875,"end":2307.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2308.27784375,"end":2318.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2318.7740937500002,"end":2348.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2348.0184687500005,"end":2358.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2358.7509687500005,"end":2362.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2362.07534375,"end":2368.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2369.3653437500006,"end":2380.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2381.3465937500005,"end":2387.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2387.3709687500004,"end":2400.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2400.1453437500004,"end":2402.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2403.36846875,"end":2431.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2431.93784375,"end":2441.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2446.51784375,"end":2450.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2450.9559687500005,"end":2452.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2453.7909687500005,"end":2456.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2457.2840937500005,"end":2460.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2460.5240937500002,"end":2465.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2466.34596875,"end":2483.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2484.8240937500004,"end":2485.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2486.2247187500006,"end":2487.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2492.75534375,"end":2492.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2492.7722187500003,"end":2504.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2504.63534375,"end":2505.8672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2506.00221875,"end":2507.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2507.99346875,"end":2510.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2511.5203437500004,"end":2511.9590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2513.24159375,"end":2519.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2520.41346875,"end":2571.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2571.59534375,"end":2574.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2574.70034375,"end":2583.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2584.65659375,"end":2645.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2645.28846875,"end":2651.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2651.98784375,"end":2654.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2654.87346875,"end":2657.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2658.18096875,"end":2671.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2672.0690937500003,"end":2673.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2673.8240937500004,"end":2686.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2687.3747187500003,"end":2693.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2688.5390937500006,"end":2690.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2693.4665937500004,"end":2726.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2726.4403437500005,"end":2747.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2745.03659375,"end":2745.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2747.97284375,"end":2750.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2751.4997187500003,"end":2829.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2829.6815937500005,"end":2831.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2831.8415937500004,"end":2835.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2836.34721875,"end":2846.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2846.5397187500002,"end":2847.2315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2847.85596875,"end":2848.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2849.4422187500004,"end":2850.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2851.39971875,"end":2856.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2856.58034375,"end":2862.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2862.08159375,"end":2862.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2862.5372187500006,"end":2862.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2862.55409375,"end":2862.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2863.1784687500003,"end":2880.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2880.52596875,"end":2895.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2895.9159687500005,"end":2903.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2904.25221875,"end":2911.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2912.09909375,"end":2920.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2921.0934687500003,"end":2921.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2922.1397187500006,"end":2923.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2924.6540937500004,"end":2931.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2932.4840937500003,"end":2940.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2941.5459687500006,"end":2950.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2951.45159375,"end":2963.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2963.44971875,"end":2968.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2968.63034375,"end":2976.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2977.01721875,"end":2979.7003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2980.3584687500006,"end":2983.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2984.2059687500005,"end":2984.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2985.1172187500006,"end":2986.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2987.78346875,"end":2989.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2988.03659375,"end":2988.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2990.07846875,"end":3008.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3009.41721875,"end":3016.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3016.2009687500004,"end":3021.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3021.43221875,"end":3032.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3032.9747187500006,"end":3044.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3044.1797187500006,"end":3045.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3045.9178437500004,"end":3050.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3050.6934687500006,"end":3055.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3056.07659375,"end":3072.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3073.4072187500005,"end":3083.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3083.73471875,"end":3085.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3085.9453437500006,"end":3087.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3087.5653437500005,"end":3091.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3092.40846875,"end":3093.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3097.18409375,"end":3098.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3099.0065937500003,"end":3099.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3099.36096875,"end":3114.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3115.1559687500003,"end":3116.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3116.52284375,"end":3137.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3137.92034375,"end":3141.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3142.1222187500007,"end":3149.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3149.6484687500006,"end":3150.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3151.6228437500004,"end":3159.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3159.67221875,"end":3176.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3176.54721875,"end":3176.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3176.56409375,"end":3176.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3176.59784375,"end":3176.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3176.90159375,"end":3177.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3177.9647187500004,"end":3194.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3194.70471875,"end":3197.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3198.18096875,"end":3203.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3201.6403437500003,"end":3202.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3203.0240937500002,"end":3203.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3203.0409687500005,"end":3204.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3204.52596875,"end":3205.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3205.0322187500005,"end":3205.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3208.1709687500006,"end":3210.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3220.5909687500007,"end":3222.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3222.97034375,"end":3224.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3225.85596875,"end":3252.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3252.0290937500004,"end":3253.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3254.05409375,"end":3258.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3258.9647187500004,"end":3271.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3271.84034375,"end":3271.8572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3271.8572187500004,"end":3284.7159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3282.6403437500003,"end":3283.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3285.64409375,"end":3289.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3289.7109687500006,"end":3290.0822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3290.28471875,"end":3292.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3292.9678437500006,"end":3309.1172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3308.5603437500004,"end":3312.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3310.04534375,"end":3313.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3313.7409687500003,"end":3325.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3325.95846875,"end":3328.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3328.0340937500005,"end":3333.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3333.6872187500003,"end":3334.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3334.69971875,"end":3334.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3334.75034375,"end":3334.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3334.8009687500007,"end":3343.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3343.0359687500004,"end":3354.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3353.0934687500003,"end":3363.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3363.74159375,"end":3368.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3368.3990937500002,"end":3369.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3369.6309687500006,"end":3380.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3380.92034375,"end":3382.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3382.86096875,"end":3383.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3383.9747187500006,"end":3385.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3385.81409375,"end":3386.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3386.9278437500006,"end":3390.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3389.3409687500007,"end":3390.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3391.16346875,"end":3400.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3397.74471875,"end":3401.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3401.59221875,"end":3401.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3401.65971875,"end":3417.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3417.5897187500004,"end":3419.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3419.8172187500004,"end":3420.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3420.81284375,"end":3421.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3421.7578437500006,"end":3430.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3427.68096875,"end":3428.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3429.60471875,"end":3433.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3433.58721875,"end":3442.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3433.60409375,"end":3433.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3433.72221875,"end":3434.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3441.50159375,"end":3454.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3454.4109687500004,"end":3457.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3456.9928437500002,"end":3457.0097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3457.0097187500005,"end":3457.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3457.4315937500005,"end":3458.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3458.6972187500005,"end":3463.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3461.6334687500002,"end":3476.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3476.7703437500004,"end":3484.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3482.33909375,"end":3486.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3486.8278437500003,"end":3492.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3492.83534375,"end":3497.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3497.72909375,"end":3505.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3506.3015937500004,"end":3507.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3507.55034375,"end":3510.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3507.78659375,"end":3507.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3507.8709687500004,"end":3508.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3508.02284375,"end":3508.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3510.92534375,"end":3510.9590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3510.9590937500006,"end":3510.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3510.9928437500002,"end":3516.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3516.8990937500002,"end":3529.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3517.0340937500005,"end":3519.5822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3528.64409375,"end":3548.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3548.89409375,"end":3551.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3552.7584687500002,"end":3567.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3567.03471875,"end":3578.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3571.06784375,"end":3571.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3571.13534375,"end":3571.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3578.8134687500005,"end":3590.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3590.42346875,"end":3591.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3592.1447187500007,"end":3599.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3596.7853437500007,"end":3605.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3603.48471875,"end":3603.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3603.8222187500005,"end":3604.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3605.66159375,"end":3606.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3605.71221875,"end":3606.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3606.79221875,"end":3606.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3606.97784375,"end":3614.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3608.66534375,"end":3610.2853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3610.2853437500007,"end":3610.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3610.6903437500005,"end":3610.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3610.7409687500003,"end":3610.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3610.90971875,"end":3610.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3610.9265937500004,"end":3610.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3610.9772187500002,"end":3612.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3612.9684687500003,"end":3613.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3613.6940937500003,"end":3613.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3613.84596875,"end":3613.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3615.22971875,"end":3616.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3616.20846875,"end":3625.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3626.21534375,"end":3643.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3626.7722187500003,"end":3626.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3626.8903437500003,"end":3626.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3626.9747187500006,"end":3627.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3642.7697187500007,"end":3661.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3657.3834687500002,"end":3657.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3658.58159375,"end":3677.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3661.4334687500004,"end":3663.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3675.69284375,"end":3683.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3678.6797187500006,"end":3684.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3685.69971875,"end":3685.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3687.50534375,"end":3688.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3689.56409375,"end":3700.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3701.05596875,"end":3702.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3702.81096875,"end":3723.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3724.0397187500002,"end":3732.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3724.15784375,"end":3724.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3725.5584687500004,"end":3726.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3726.5878437500005,"end":3726.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3728.79846875,"end":3729.2540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3729.7265937500006,"end":3730.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3731.02596875,"end":3736.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3732.9665937500004,"end":3745.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3736.86471875,"end":3736.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3736.9490937500004,"end":3737.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3737.52284375,"end":3737.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3740.96534375,"end":3741.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3741.03284375,"end":3741.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3742.1972187500005,"end":3742.2140937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3742.2140937500008,"end":3745.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3745.9772187500002,"end":3747.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3747.0234687500006,"end":3747.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3747.2090937500006,"end":3748.5422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3747.34409375,"end":3748.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3748.5422187500008,"end":3748.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3748.9303437500002,"end":3748.9640937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3748.9640937500008,"end":3755.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3749.0147187500006,"end":3751.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3752.89596875,"end":3760.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3759.2072187500007,"end":3760.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3760.2197187500005,"end":3764.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3764.47221875,"end":3764.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3764.5397187500002,"end":3764.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3764.7928437500004,"end":3773.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3773.9728437500007,"end":3784.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3784.53659375,"end":3790.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3791.4890937500004,"end":3799.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3797.9353437500004,"end":3798.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3799.1334687500002,"end":3804.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3803.4872187500005,"end":3814.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3810.03471875,"end":3819.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3817.2403437500006,"end":3821.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3822.3534687500005,"end":3838.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3838.35096875,"end":3838.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3838.3847187500005,"end":3840.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3840.6122187500005,"end":3840.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3840.9665937500004,"end":3841.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3841.0340937500005,"end":3841.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3842.1647187500002,"end":3842.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3847.0753437500007,"end":3852.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3852.69471875,"end":3855.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3855.59721875,"end":3858.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3858.11159375,"end":3862.4484687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3864.92909375,"end":3866.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3866.85284375,"end":3867.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3867.9159687500005,"end":3874.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3875.3915937500005,"end":3875.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3876.1847187500007,"end":3877.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3878.2772187500004,"end":3881.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3882.22596875,"end":3883.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3883.5928437500006,"end":3883.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3884.16659375,"end":3885.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3885.0272187500004,"end":3885.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3886.9678437500006,"end":3904.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3902.9484687500008,"end":3904.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3904.8722187500007,"end":3904.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3904.9059687500003,"end":3904.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3904.9734687500004,"end":3913.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3905.8847187500005,"end":3907.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3913.02284375,"end":3929.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3930.25221875,"end":3930.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3931.23096875,"end":3933.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3933.62721875,"end":3935.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3935.7197187500005,"end":3936.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3936.46221875,"end":3961.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3946.5197187500007,"end":3946.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3946.53659375,"end":3949.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3957.99471875,"end":3958.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3959.36159375,"end":3959.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3961.3865937500004,"end":3961.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3961.48784375,"end":3961.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3961.9434687500006,"end":3961.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3961.9772187500002,"end":4024.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3962.75346875,"end":3963.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3963.7322187500004,"end":3964.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4021.93409375,"end":4022.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4024.63409375,"end":4088.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4026.9122187500006,"end":4027.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4030.1522187500004,"end":4030.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4089.2822187500005,"end":4089.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4090.6153437500006,"end":4101.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4100.30159375,"end":4106.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4106.055968750001,"end":4106.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4106.07284375,"end":4106.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4106.0897187499995,"end":4106.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4106.140343749999,"end":4106.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4106.17409375,"end":4106.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4106.91659375,"end":4121.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4121.564093749999,"end":4146.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4145.138468749999,"end":4147.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4147.635968750001,"end":4160.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4159.9715937500005,"end":4181.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4162.41846875,"end":4163.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4165.675343749999,"end":4166.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4180.862843749999,"end":4181.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4181.4872187500005,"end":4213.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4189.6884687500005,"end":4190.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4190.68409375,"end":4190.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4211.895968750001,"end":4212.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4213.61721875,"end":4214.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4214.5115937499995,"end":4226.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4226.526593750001,"end":4229.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4229.7665937500005,"end":4229.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4229.88471875,"end":4229.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4229.96909375,"end":4230.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4230.0028437500005,"end":4247.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4246.50659375,"end":4251.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4248.362843749999,"end":4249.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4251.366593750001,"end":4259.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4258.251593749999,"end":4264.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4264.7147187499995,"end":4265.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4265.609093749999,"end":4268.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4265.6259687500005,"end":4265.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4265.87909375,"end":4266.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4266.35159375,"end":4266.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4269.76034375,"end":4300.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4278.40034375,"end":4278.737843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4297.14846875,"end":4297.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4300.962218750001,"end":4325.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4325.4647187499995,"end":4325.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4325.49846875,"end":4325.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4325.8865937499995,"end":4326.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4326.7978437500005,"end":4327.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4327.405343750001,"end":4327.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4327.810343749999,"end":4334.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4334.86409375,"end":4368.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4369.120343750001,"end":4383.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4383.61596875,"end":4398.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4397.87534375,"end":4429.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4401.452843749999,"end":4401.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4416.25221875,"end":4416.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4416.319718750001,"end":4416.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4416.5897187499995,"end":4416.690968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4420.57221875,"end":4421.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4421.02784375,"end":4421.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4421.466593749999,"end":4421.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4425.921593749999,"end":4427.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4429.448468750001,"end":4431.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4430.49471875,"end":4446.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4447.13346875,"end":4460.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4460.8865937499995,"end":4478.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4477.913468750001,"end":4501.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4483.41471875,"end":4483.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4483.904093749999,"end":4483.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4485.220343749999,"end":4485.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4486.23284375,"end":4486.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4497.218468749999,"end":4498.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4500.222218749999,"end":4501.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4506.887843750001,"end":4509.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4517.384093750001,"end":4521.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4521.9403437500005,"end":4523.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4522.22721875,"end":4524.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4528.8759687500005,"end":4532.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4529.095343749999,"end":4530.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4530.34409375,"end":4530.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4532.36909375,"end":4538.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4537.43159375,"end":4537.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4537.448468750001,"end":4537.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4538.69721875,"end":4544.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4545.6834687499995,"end":4570.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4557.61409375,"end":4558.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4570.725968750001,"end":4579.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4580.64846875,"end":4582.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4583.517218749999,"end":4585.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4585.626593749999,"end":4590.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4590.419093750001,"end":4596.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4597.13534375,"end":4599.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4599.86909375,"end":4600.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4601.286593750001,"end":4601.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4602.366593750001,"end":4604.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4604.96534375,"end":4609.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4609.84221875,"end":4614.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4614.499718749999,"end":4617.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4617.90846875,"end":4618.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4619.376593749999,"end":4621.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4622.515343749999,"end":4624.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4625.249093750001,"end":4627.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4628.6747187500005,"end":4635.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4635.880343750001,"end":4637.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4638.1415937500005,"end":4639.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4639.60971875,"end":4643.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4644.182843750001,"end":4647.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4647.72659375,"end":4651.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4651.89471875,"end":4653.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4655.0165937500005,"end":4663.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4663.622843749999,"end":4665.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4666.94721875,"end":4673.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4674.47346875,"end":4676.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4676.059718750001,"end":4684.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4685.12159375,"end":4685.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4685.340968750001,"end":4685.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4685.610968749999,"end":4686.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4686.977843750001,"end":4700.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4700.22471875,"end":4706.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4706.2997187500005,"end":4708.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4709.03346875,"end":4721.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4718.5340937500005,"end":4759.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4721.841593749999,"end":4722.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4743.15471875,"end":4743.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4759.70909375,"end":4762.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4763.35409375,"end":4768.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4769.12534375,"end":4771.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4772.2978437500005,"end":4793.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4776.702218750001,"end":4776.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4776.71909375,"end":4776.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4776.7528437500005,"end":4776.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4776.76971875,"end":4776.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4776.85409375,"end":4776.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4776.921593749999,"end":4776.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4793.88096875,"end":4793.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4793.999093750001,"end":4794.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4794.977843750001,"end":4800.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4801.204718749999,"end":4805.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4806.25034375,"end":4817.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4818.231593750001,"end":4834.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4834.6678437499995,"end":4834.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4835.140343749999,"end":4852.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4840.18596875,"end":4840.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4840.65846875,"end":4840.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4845.5184687500005,"end":4845.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4845.602843750001,"end":4845.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4845.9403437500005,"end":4845.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4852.4540937500005,"end":4897.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4853.77034375,"end":4854.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4854.81659375,"end":4855.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4855.964093750001,"end":4856.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4856.436593750001,"end":4857.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4896.58221875,"end":4930.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4901.003468750001,"end":4901.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4903.956593750001,"end":4905.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4929.43784375,"end":4932.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4932.05346875,"end":4932.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4932.374093750001,"end":4933.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4933.0322187500005,"end":4933.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4933.09971875,"end":4933.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4933.47096875,"end":4933.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4933.50471875,"end":4933.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4933.99409375,"end":4940.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4940.474093750001,"end":4965.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4966.19159375,"end":4967.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4967.77784375,"end":4970.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4970.663468750001,"end":4972.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4972.857218749999,"end":4974.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4974.94971875,"end":4979.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4979.657843749999,"end":4981.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4981.69971875,"end":4983.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4984.028468750001,"end":4989.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4990.08659375,"end":4999.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4999.435343749999,"end":5001.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5001.966593749999,"end":5005.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5005.45971875,"end":5014.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5012.564093749999,"end":5012.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5014.0322187500005,"end":5014.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5014.79159375,"end":5014.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5014.825343750001,"end":5015.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5015.196593750001,"end":5022.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5020.79909375,"end":5022.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5022.99284375,"end":5023.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5023.3134687500005,"end":5023.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5023.51596875,"end":5023.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5024.12346875,"end":5035.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5027.59971875,"end":5028.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5034.40034375,"end":5035.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5039.54721875,"end":5042.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5060.45534375,"end":5062.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5062.98659375,"end":5064.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5069.567843750001,"end":5071.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5069.77034375,"end":5070.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5070.85034375,"end":5070.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5072.16659375,"end":5072.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5072.200343750001,"end":5075.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5075.82846875,"end":5079.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5080.46909375,"end":5081.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5080.722218750001,"end":5080.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5082.224093750001,"end":5084.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5085.075968749999,"end":5086.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5087.202218750001,"end":5101.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5097.647843750001,"end":5098.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5100.95534375,"end":5107.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5102.8622187500005,"end":5104.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5104.9715937500005,"end":5105.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5109.460343750001,"end":5112.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5113.13909375,"end":5114.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5114.522843750001,"end":5114.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5115.16409375,"end":5119.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5120.96909375,"end":5122.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5123.36534375,"end":5125.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5125.677218750001,"end":5126.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5127.48284375,"end":5128.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5129.001593749999,"end":5129.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5130.604718750001,"end":5131.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5132.427218750001,"end":5133.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5134.41846875,"end":5135.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5135.68409375,"end":5137.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5137.92846875,"end":5138.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5139.514718750001,"end":5140.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5140.51034375,"end":5142.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5142.974093750001,"end":5144.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5145.269093750001,"end":5146.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5146.93971875,"end":5148.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5148.76221875,"end":5149.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5150.17971875,"end":5155.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5156.45721875,"end":5156.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5157.4022187499995,"end":5158.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5159.64659375,"end":5161.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5161.722218750001,"end":5163.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5163.696593750001,"end":5166.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5167.47659375,"end":5168.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5168.35409375,"end":5168.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5169.974093750001,"end":5170.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5170.85159375,"end":5175.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5170.93596875,"end":5171.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5176.28534375,"end":5179.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5179.069718750001,"end":5179.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5179.592843750001,"end":5179.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5179.626593749999,"end":5182.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5183.524718750001,"end":5184.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5184.7059687500005,"end":5194.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5192.755343750001,"end":5193.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5196.14721875,"end":5199.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5199.032843749999,"end":5234.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5200.56846875,"end":5200.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5206.71096875,"end":5206.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5206.964093750001,"end":5207.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5218.23659375,"end":5218.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5219.18159375,"end":5220.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5220.362843750001,"end":5220.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5220.37971875,"end":5220.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5220.548468749999,"end":5221.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5233.356593750001,"end":5237.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5235.3309687500005,"end":5235.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5238.840968750001,"end":5254.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5240.20784375,"end":5242.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5242.874093750001,"end":5242.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5251.109093749999,"end":5252.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5252.560343749999,"end":5255.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5255.81721875,"end":5260.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5261.234093749999,"end":5262.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5263.98471875,"end":5265.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5265.317843750001,"end":5267.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5268.62534375,"end":5270.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5270.36346875,"end":5271.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5272.304093750001,"end":5278.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5279.290343750001,"end":5280.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5281.41659375,"end":5287.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5288.0653437500005,"end":5290.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5290.967843750001,"end":5292.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5292.7059687500005,"end":5296.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5296.55346875,"end":5298.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5299.05096875,"end":5311.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5307.11721875,"end":5308.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5308.41659375,"end":5317.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5317.51221875,"end":5321.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5321.5115937499995,"end":5325.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5325.561593750001,"end":5326.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5327.4178437499995,"end":5329.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5329.965968750001,"end":5331.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5332.24409375,"end":5334.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5334.5897187499995,"end":5336.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5337.15471875,"end":5337.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5338.60596875,"end":5339.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5340.0740937499995,"end":5340.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5341.69409375,"end":5343.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5343.364718750001,"end":5344.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5344.7147187499995,"end":5346.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5347.04346875,"end":5348.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5349.186593750001,"end":5350.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5350.94159375,"end":5352.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5352.71346875,"end":5358.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5357.59034375,"end":5361.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5360.712218750001,"end":5366.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5362.09596875,"end":5362.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5362.7372187500005,"end":5364.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5367.968468749999,"end":5369.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5369.841593749999,"end":5374.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5374.482218749999,"end":5378.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5379.359093749999,"end":5380.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5380.89471875,"end":5382.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5382.71721875,"end":5383.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5384.32034375,"end":5385.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5386.260968750001,"end":5386.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5387.07096875,"end":5399.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5396.21721875,"end":5410.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5404.75596875,"end":5405.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5409.05909375,"end":5409.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5410.257218750001,"end":5418.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5416.41659375,"end":5417.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5418.9647187499995,"end":5419.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5419.28534375,"end":5421.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5419.3865937499995,"end":5419.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5421.76596875,"end":5421.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5421.7997187500005,"end":5425.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5422.13721875,"end":5422.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5422.913468750001,"end":5423.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5425.073468750001,"end":5425.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5425.259093750001,"end":5431.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5425.2928437499995,"end":5425.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5431.04721875,"end":5431.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5431.300343750001,"end":5440.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5435.13096875,"end":5435.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5435.147843750001,"end":5435.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5435.16471875,"end":5435.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5438.55659375,"end":5443.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5442.48846875,"end":5443.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5444.20971875,"end":5447.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5447.68596875,"end":5449.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5449.727843750001,"end":5450.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5451.7528437500005,"end":5454.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5455.2459687499995,"end":5457.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5457.62534375,"end":5459.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5460.359093749999,"end":5461.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5462.333468750001,"end":5462.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5463.95346875,"end":5466.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5467.210343750001,"end":5470.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5470.14659375,"end":5470.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5471.327843749999,"end":5471.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5472.23909375,"end":5473.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5474.92221875,"end":5475.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5476.626593749999,"end":5478.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5478.21284375,"end":5478.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5478.76971875,"end":5480.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5480.03534375,"end":5480.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5481.8240937499995,"end":5492.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5491.61159375,"end":5499.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5499.86346875,"end":5501.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5502.512843750001,"end":5503.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5504.335343750001,"end":5507.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5507.64284375,"end":5507.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5507.895968750001,"end":5508.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5509.41471875,"end":5512.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5512.41846875,"end":5514.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5515.1522187499995,"end":5522.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5523.184718750001,"end":5524.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5524.56846875,"end":5526.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5526.76221875,"end":5530.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5531.0653437500005,"end":5532.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5532.16221875,"end":5537.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5537.747843749999,"end":5539.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5541.359093749999,"end":5548.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5542.79346875,"end":5543.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5543.50221875,"end":5543.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5544.362843750001,"end":5545.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5549.3240937499995,"end":5550.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5550.8934687500005,"end":5551.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5552.12534375,"end":5553.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5553.67784375,"end":5554.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5555.989718750001,"end":5556.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5556.68159375,"end":5558.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5558.97659375,"end":5565.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5565.57471875,"end":5566.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5567.26221875,"end":5570.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5570.63721875,"end":5571.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5572.1728437500005,"end":5575.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5576.69534375,"end":5579.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5580.1209687499995,"end":5580.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5581.33596875,"end":5587.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5587.66409375,"end":5588.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5589.0478437500005,"end":5592.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5594.802218750001,"end":5595.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5596.2197187500005,"end":5597.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5598.7509687500005,"end":5600.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5600.96159375,"end":5604.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5605.3153437500005,"end":5605.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5606.96909375,"end":5607.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5607.779093749999,"end":5610.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5610.512843750001,"end":5612.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5612.72346875,"end":5616.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5617.51596875,"end":5619.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5620.23284375,"end":5620.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5621.68409375,"end":5623.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5624.569718750001,"end":5626.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5626.56096875,"end":5628.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5628.72096875,"end":5629.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5629.59846875,"end":5631.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5632.61909375,"end":5635.673468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5636.07846875,"end":5639.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5640.06096875,"end":5642.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5642.389718750001,"end":5643.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5645.106593750001,"end":5647.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5648.22846875,"end":5652.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5652.919718749999,"end":5653.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5653.071593750001,"end":5654.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5654.472218750001,"end":5655.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5655.95721875,"end":5660.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5661.1209687499995,"end":5663.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5664.225968750001,"end":5665.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5666.014718750001,"end":5666.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5666.03159375,"end":5667.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5667.0272187499995,"end":5667.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5667.71909375,"end":5667.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5667.735968749999,"end":5720.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5676.07221875,"end":5676.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5680.729718750001,"end":5680.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5720.149718750001,"end":5725.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5722.579718749999,"end":5723.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5726.68034375,"end":5733.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5733.71721875,"end":5735.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5735.69159375,"end":5768.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5744.2303437499995,"end":5744.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5752.397843750001,"end":5752.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5763.0965937500005,"end":5763.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5766.57284375,"end":5781.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5772.15846875,"end":5773.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5782.215968750001,"end":5789.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5788.88159375,"end":5789.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5789.809718750001,"end":5797.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5798.36534375,"end":5799.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5799.647843750001,"end":5802.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5802.364718750001,"end":5803.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5802.921593749999,"end":5804.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5804.03534375,"end":5811.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5804.946593750001,"end":5805.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5810.73471875,"end":5810.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5811.05534375,"end":5812.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5811.42659375,"end":5813.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5819.138468749999,"end":5826.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5822.091593749999,"end":5822.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5822.1590937500005,"end":5823.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5823.9647187499995,"end":5824.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5824.774718750001,"end":5825.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5825.2303437499995,"end":5825.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5825.82096875,"end":5825.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5826.66471875,"end":5827.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5828.21721875,"end":5831.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5839.97909375,"end":5841.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5842.814093750001,"end":5843.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5848.83846875,"end":5848.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5848.8553437499995,"end":5857.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5858.06909375,"end":5868.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5869.122218750001,"end":5917.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5918.12721875,"end":5919.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5919.460343750001,"end":5919.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5920.18596875,"end":5922.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5923.071593750001,"end":5926.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5926.817843750001,"end":5962.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5964.3309687500005,"end":5968.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5968.93784375,"end":5971.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5972.380343750001,"end":5974.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5974.489718750001,"end":5975.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5975.620343750001,"end":5984.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5984.63159375,"end":5985.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5985.4247187500005,"end":5986.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5986.97721875,"end":5987.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5987.41596875,"end":5987.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5987.50034375,"end":5988.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5988.90096875,"end":5994.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5995.04346875,"end":5997.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5998.31721875,"end":5999.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5999.68409375,"end":6000.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6001.27034375,"end":6002.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6002.35034375,"end":6009.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6009.38721875,"end":6015.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6010.60221875,"end":6010.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6015.24284375,"end":6031.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6031.89846875,"end":6072.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6072.85409375,"end":6080.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6081.67971875,"end":6083.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6083.670968750001,"end":6092.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6093.01971875,"end":6103.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6104.612843750001,"end":6105.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6105.929093750001,"end":6117.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6117.85971875,"end":6125.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6125.807843750001,"end":6127.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6128.001593750001,"end":6128.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6129.43596875,"end":6130.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6131.5115937499995,"end":6133.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6133.70534375,"end":6138.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6138.936593750001,"end":6150.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6151.32284375,"end":6152.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6155.67659375,"end":6156.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6157.347218750001,"end":6162.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6162.831593750001,"end":6166.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6166.999718749999,"end":6167.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6167.387843750001,"end":6167.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6168.43409375,"end":6177.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6178.069718750001,"end":6180.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6180.66846875,"end":6180.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6181.309718750001,"end":6186.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6183.48659375,"end":6184.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6186.034718750001,"end":6186.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6186.96284375,"end":6187.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6187.030343750001,"end":6188.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6187.75596875,"end":6190.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6190.28721875,"end":6190.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6190.50659375,"end":6190.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6190.52346875,"end":6190.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6190.6415937500005,"end":6190.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6190.827218750001,"end":6201.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6201.72846875,"end":6203.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6203.753468750001,"end":6204.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6204.02346875,"end":6206.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6204.090968750001,"end":6204.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6206.048468750001,"end":6214.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6213.76034375,"end":6213.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6214.013468749999,"end":6232.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6232.8290937500005,"end":6248.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6248.573468750001,"end":6249.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6250.159718750001,"end":6251.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6251.83034375,"end":6257.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6257.432843750001,"end":6263.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6263.59221875,"end":6267.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6267.52409375,"end":6275.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6276.130343750001,"end":6288.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6288.76971875,"end":6306.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6305.762843750001,"end":6314.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6314.03159375,"end":6314.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6314.45346875,"end":6331.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6331.98659375,"end":6332.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6332.45909375,"end":6334.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6334.399718750001,"end":6335.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6336.67784375,"end":6349.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6349.452218750001,"end":6349.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6350.12721875,"end":6367.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6367.93034375,"end":6367.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6369.5165937500005,"end":6369.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6369.53346875,"end":6370.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6370.90034375,"end":6386.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6386.50971875,"end":6390.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6390.779093749999,"end":6391.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6391.97721875,"end":6394.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6395.30159375,"end":6397.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6398.06909375,"end":6398.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6398.102843750001,"end":6398.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6398.237843750001,"end":6414.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6415.38284375,"end":6420.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6420.81659375,"end":6482.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6482.8153437500005,"end":6506.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6506.03534375,"end":6506.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6506.91284375,"end":6522.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6517.679093750001,"end":6517.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6523.163468750001,"end":6548.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6547.530968749999,"end":6557.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6557.571593750001,"end":6563.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6563.376593750001,"end":6587.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6587.946593750001,"end":6602.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6602.104718750001,"end":6602.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6602.35784375,"end":6612.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6612.90471875,"end":6626.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6625.814093750001,"end":6649.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6649.776593750001,"end":6651.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6651.5653437500005,"end":6652.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6652.08846875,"end":6652.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6655.37909375,"end":6655.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6655.395968750001,"end":6656.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6657.404093749999,"end":6660.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6667.022843750001,"end":6668.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6669.452843749999,"end":6670.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6676.37159375,"end":6707.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6707.35409375,"end":6708.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6709.311593750001,"end":6710.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6711.319718750001,"end":6721.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6721.309718750001,"end":6729.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6729.6122187500005,"end":6730.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6731.097218750001,"end":6732.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6733.780343750001,"end":6734.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6735.56909375,"end":6736.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6736.919093750001,"end":6738.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6738.48846875,"end":6739.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6740.3447187500005,"end":6756.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6756.7978437500005,"end":6757.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6758.60346875,"end":6759.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6759.1434687500005,"end":6760.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6760.5272187499995,"end":6772.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6771.0740937499995,"end":6776.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6776.17034375,"end":6780.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6780.43971875,"end":6781.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6782.07659375,"end":6797.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6796.622843749999,"end":6801.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6799.79534375,"end":6807.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6804.4022187499995,"end":6811.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6807.321593750001,"end":6808.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6811.962218750001,"end":6825.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6824.58471875,"end":6826.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6827.55471875,"end":6840.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6828.29721875,"end":6828.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6830.372843749999,"end":6830.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6840.34596875,"end":6843.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6844.581593750001,"end":6853.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6853.45784375,"end":6862.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6862.0809687500005,"end":6862.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6863.279093749999,"end":6866.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6866.9072187500005,"end":6875.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6875.46284375,"end":6878.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6878.21346875,"end":6879.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6879.4959687499995,"end":6881.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6882.179093750001,"end":6884.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6884.997218750001,"end":6885.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6885.317843750001,"end":6885.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6885.33471875,"end":6885.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6885.975968750001,"end":6917.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6888.52409375,"end":6891.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6893.31659375,"end":6893.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6917.616593750001,"end":6919.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6920.45159375,"end":6934.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6934.94721875,"end":6936.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6936.786593750001,"end":6937.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6937.022843750001,"end":6940.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6941.190968750001,"end":6961.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6961.305968750001,"end":6973.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6962.099093750001,"end":6962.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6973.60784375,"end":6981.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6981.825968749999,"end":6987.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6986.63534375,"end":6989.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6989.2509687500005,"end":6994.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6994.212218750001,"end":6994.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6994.2459687499995,"end":6994.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6994.9715937500005,"end":6999.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6999.71346875,"end":7002.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7003.08846875,"end":7004.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7005.11346875,"end":7007.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7008.28596875,"end":7027.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7016.6053437499995,"end":7016.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7027.675343750001,"end":7028.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7031.91096875,"end":7032.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7033.56471875,"end":7034.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7035.319718750001,"end":7039.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7039.84221875,"end":7040.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7041.833468750001,"end":7050.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7050.743468750001,"end":7057.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7057.71284375,"end":7061.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7062.319718750001,"end":7074.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7074.67221875,"end":7078.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7078.46909375,"end":7092.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7092.137843750001,"end":7096.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7094.095343750001,"end":7096.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7096.069718750001,"end":7096.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7096.08659375,"end":7103.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7097.11596875,"end":7098.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7101.75659375,"end":7158.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7104.7772187499995,"end":7106.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7106.329718750001,"end":7106.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7106.4647187499995,"end":7106.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7106.65034375,"end":7106.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7124.4872187500005,"end":7124.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7125.7528437500005,"end":7126.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7126.022843750001,"end":7126.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7126.74846875,"end":7126.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7158.929093750001,"end":7159.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7159.671593750001,"end":7166.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7166.45534375,"end":7166.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7166.50596875,"end":7166.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7166.55659375,"end":7174.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7174.74096875,"end":7175.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7178.63909375,"end":7179.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7180.09034375,"end":7180.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7181.946593750001,"end":7182.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7183.70159375,"end":7187.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7203.00659375,"end":7205.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7205.95971875,"end":7207.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7207.09034375,"end":7207.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7208.288468750001,"end":7209.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7209.95909375,"end":7210.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7210.70159375,"end":7211.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7213.064093750001,"end":7213.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7213.09784375,"end":7213.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7213.60409375,"end":7213.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7213.6209687499995,"end":7214.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7214.329718750001,"end":7214.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7214.3465937500005,"end":7215.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7215.983468750001,"end":7216.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7217.046593750001,"end":7218.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7218.464093750001,"end":7222.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7219.5272187499995,"end":7220.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7223.003468750001,"end":7225.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7225.399718750001,"end":7226.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7225.88909375,"end":7225.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7227.930968750001,"end":7230.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7231.019093750001,"end":7231.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7231.45784375,"end":7232.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7233.465968750001,"end":7234.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7235.27159375,"end":7236.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7237.262843750001,"end":7243.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7243.47284375,"end":7255.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7256.331593750001,"end":7262.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7263.09846875,"end":7266.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7267.215968750001,"end":7269.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7269.66284375,"end":7270.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7271.755343750001,"end":7272.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7272.700343750001,"end":7273.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7273.98284375,"end":7275.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7275.5184687500005,"end":7278.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7279.18034375,"end":7281.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7281.89721875,"end":7283.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7283.753468750001,"end":7284.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7285.13721875,"end":7290.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7291.262843750001,"end":7292.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7293.01784375,"end":7295.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7295.58284375,"end":7297.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7297.52346875,"end":7300.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7300.56096875,"end":7307.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7307.665343750001,"end":7308.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7309.859093750001,"end":7310.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7311.24284375,"end":7312.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7312.3397187499995,"end":7313.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7314.38159375,"end":7316.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7316.845343750001,"end":7317.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7319.292218750001,"end":7320.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7321.165343750001,"end":7321.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7322.02596875,"end":7322.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7323.39284375,"end":7327.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7327.814093750001,"end":7329.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7330.311593750001,"end":7338.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7338.546593750001,"end":7341.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7341.90471875,"end":7342.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7342.37721875,"end":7343.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7343.22096875,"end":7352.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7353.075968749999,"end":7354.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7354.69596875,"end":7355.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7355.26971875,"end":7357.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7357.69971875,"end":7377.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7378.10159375,"end":7379.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7380.43034375,"end":7382.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7382.944718750001,"end":7384.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7385.239718750001,"end":7389.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7390.0322187500005,"end":7396.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7390.42034375,"end":7390.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7396.2928437499995,"end":7397.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7397.91284375,"end":7399.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7400.44409375,"end":7401.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7401.591593749999,"end":7402.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7403.279093749999,"end":7404.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7406.232218749999,"end":7408.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7408.729718750001,"end":7410.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7410.974093750001,"end":7413.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7414.14659375,"end":7416.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7417.015343750001,"end":7418.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7419.05721875,"end":7421.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7422.314093750001,"end":7423.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7423.61346875,"end":7430.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7431.52784375,"end":7435.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7437.2822187500005,"end":7438.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7438.59846875,"end":7441.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7442.31096875,"end":7442.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7442.63159375,"end":7444.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7445.92221875,"end":7447.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7448.807843750001,"end":7450.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7451.4403437500005,"end":7452.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7452.57096875,"end":7454.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7455.372218750001,"end":7457.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7458.544718749999,"end":7460.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7460.78909375,"end":7461.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7462.307843750001,"end":7466.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7467.35346875,"end":7468.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7469.63159375,"end":7471.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7471.774718750001,"end":7473.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7473.175343750001,"end":7474.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7475.55471875,"end":7476.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7476.7528437500005,"end":7478.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7479.38534375,"end":7479.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7479.94221875,"end":7480.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7482.321593750001,"end":7482.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7483.18221875,"end":7484.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7484.717843750001,"end":7488.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7488.970343750001,"end":7494.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7495.38284375,"end":7497.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7498.065968750001,"end":7500.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7500.9178437499995,"end":7507.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7507.83659375,"end":7509.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7509.86159375,"end":7516.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7517.45534375,"end":7518.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7518.2147187499995,"end":7518.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7519.497218750001,"end":7522.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7523.513468749999,"end":7525.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7526.2978437500005,"end":7528.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7529.2509687500005,"end":7530.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7530.921593750001,"end":7531.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7532.609093750001,"end":7533.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7533.638468749999,"end":7534.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7534.870343750001,"end":7536.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7537.04721875,"end":7538.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7538.63346875,"end":7540.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7541.53596875,"end":7542.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7543.37534375,"end":7543.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7543.915343750001,"end":7544.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7544.657843750001,"end":7545.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7545.95721875,"end":7546.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7547.27346875,"end":7549.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7549.36596875,"end":7549.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7550.07471875,"end":7550.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7550.73284375,"end":7551.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7550.96909375,"end":7551.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7551.323468750001,"end":7551.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7551.52596875,"end":7560.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7561.17846875,"end":7570.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7570.307843750001,"end":7577.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7575.184718750001,"end":7577.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7578.01971875,"end":7579.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7580.669093750001,"end":7582.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7582.812218750001,"end":7586.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7583.520968750001,"end":7585.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7585.7822187500005,"end":7586.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7587.267218750001,"end":7587.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7588.161593750001,"end":7589.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7590.06846875,"end":7591.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7592.009093750001,"end":7594.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7595.35034375,"end":7596.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7597.05471875,"end":7600.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7601.3240937499995,"end":7603.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7602.6572187500005,"end":7606.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7604.952218750001,"end":7606.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7606.167218750001,"end":7606.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7606.859093750001,"end":7612.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7612.83284375,"end":7619.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7617.794093750001,"end":7619.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7620.02159375,"end":7620.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7620.05534375,"end":7624.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7625.387843750001,"end":7625.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7625.91096875,"end":7627.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7627.69971875,"end":7629.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7629.4715937500005,"end":7630.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7630.36596875,"end":7631.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7631.04096875,"end":7631.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7631.41221875,"end":7633.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7633.589093750001,"end":7633.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7633.724093750001,"end":7633.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7634.44971875,"end":7635.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7636.60971875,"end":7637.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7638.5165937500005,"end":7639.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7639.93409375,"end":7644.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7645.41846875,"end":7646.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7646.667218750001,"end":7648.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7649.11409375,"end":7649.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7652.35409375,"end":7653.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7653.99096875,"end":7655.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7656.454718750001,"end":7656.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7657.821593750001,"end":7658.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7659.07034375,"end":7659.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7662.42846875,"end":7664.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7664.53784375,"end":7666.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7667.001593750001,"end":7668.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7669.347218750001,"end":7680.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7680.99096875,"end":7684.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7685.327843750001,"end":7688.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7689.4959687499995,"end":7691.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7691.993468750001,"end":7694.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7694.96346875,"end":7699.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7699.857218749999,"end":7700.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7701.25784375,"end":7702.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7702.9959687499995,"end":7704.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7705.29096875,"end":7705.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7705.89846875,"end":7714.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7714.74096875,"end":7715.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7716.327218750001,"end":7717.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7717.964093750001,"end":7721.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7721.575343750001,"end":7724.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7724.83221875,"end":7726.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7726.75596875,"end":7728.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7727.279093749999,"end":7728.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7729.08471875,"end":7735.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7736.2059687500005,"end":7738.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7739.91846875,"end":7741.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7742.483468750001,"end":7744.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7744.98096875,"end":7749.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7749.75659375,"end":7752.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7752.67596875,"end":7752.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7755.00471875,"end":7757.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7757.805968750001,"end":7762.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7763.374718750001,"end":7766.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7767.374093750001,"end":7768.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7768.724093750001,"end":7769.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7770.225968750001,"end":7772.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7772.21721875,"end":7773.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7773.06096875,"end":7773.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7773.077843750001,"end":7773.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7773.14534375,"end":7773.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7773.314093750001,"end":7773.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7773.4490937499995,"end":7774.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7774.124093750001,"end":7774.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7774.1747187500005,"end":7774.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7774.19159375,"end":7775.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7778.477843750001,"end":7779.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7788.16409375,"end":7788.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7789.32846875,"end":7791.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7794.72846875,"end":7797.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7797.86721875,"end":7798.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7798.28909375,"end":7798.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7803.99284375,"end":7811.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7812.649718750001,"end":7823.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7823.6522187499995,"end":7831.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7832.35971875,"end":7833.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7833.591593749999,"end":7867.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7866.81846875,"end":7874.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7868.03346875,"end":7868.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7874.96909375,"end":7886.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7885.262843750001,"end":7898.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7889.49846875,"end":7889.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7889.54909375,"end":7890.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7898.796593750001,"end":7927.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7925.712218750001,"end":7950.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7929.71159375,"end":7930.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7951.24409375,"end":7959.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7959.86721875,"end":7969.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7968.0009687500005,"end":7968.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7970.194718750001,"end":7985.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7984.015343750001,"end":7989.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7990.022843750001,"end":7993.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7993.9715937500005,"end":7995.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7995.929093750001,"end":7996.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7996.65471875,"end":7999.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7999.60784375,"end":8002.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8002.577843750001,"end":8007.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8007.67409375,"end":8011.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8011.13346875,"end":8022.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8022.929093750001,"end":8026.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8026.962218750001,"end":8032.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8032.159718750001,"end":8033.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8033.8134687500005,"end":8038.200968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8038.825343750001,"end":8042.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8042.36909375,"end":8061.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8047.212218750001,"end":8048.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8048.055968750001,"end":8048.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8061.28596875,"end":8063.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8062.19721875,"end":8068.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8064.91409375,"end":8065.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8065.99409375,"end":8066.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8069.16659375,"end":8076.591593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8076.591593750001,"end":8076.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8077.23284375,"end":8077.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8077.28346875,"end":8078.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8079.10596875,"end":8095.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8080.0340937500005,"end":8081.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8083.27409375,"end":8084.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8085.417218750001,"end":8086.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8086.919093750001,"end":8087.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8088.80909375,"end":8089.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8093.702843750001,"end":8094.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8095.00221875,"end":8112.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8112.7040937500005,"end":8114.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8114.03721875,"end":8116.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8117.68221875,"end":8126.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8125.5965937500005,"end":8131.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8131.772843750001,"end":8139.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8140.210343750001,"end":8142.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8143.18034375,"end":8144.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8144.294093750001,"end":8147.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8148.47909375,"end":8151.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8152.22534375,"end":8153.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8154.35159375,"end":8156.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8156.612843750001,"end":8157.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8158.114718750001,"end":8159.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8160.173468750001,"end":8163.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8164.729718750001,"end":8166.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8166.9403437500005,"end":8169.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8170.70346875,"end":8178.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8178.651593750001,"end":8194.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8194.969718750002,"end":8195.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8195.543468750002,"end":8195.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8195.67846875,"end":8206.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8206.259093749999,"end":8224.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8216.907218750002,"end":8216.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8216.92409375,"end":8218.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8221.56471875,"end":8222.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8222.847218750001,"end":8223.977843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8223.977843749999,"end":8224.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8224.24784375,"end":8224.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8225.125343750002,"end":8243.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8241.730343750001,"end":8250.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8251.062218750001,"end":8256.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8256.968468750001,"end":8257.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8258.11596875,"end":8265.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8266.215968750003,"end":8270.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8271.227843749999,"end":8271.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8271.24471875,"end":8274.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8275.277843750002,"end":8275.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8276.020343750002,"end":8280.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8279.42909375,"end":8282.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8281.11659375,"end":8282.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8282.820968750002,"end":8282.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8282.95596875,"end":8286.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8282.972843750002,"end":8283.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8286.26346875,"end":8291.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8291.12346875,"end":8306.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8307.120968750001,"end":8308.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8308.977218750002,"end":8310.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8311.27221875,"end":8311.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8311.289093750001,"end":8311.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8311.761593750001,"end":8312.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8312.63909375,"end":8313.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8313.449093750001,"end":8314.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8314.17471875,"end":8320.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8316.520343750002,"end":8317.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8320.23284375,"end":8341.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8341.74846875,"end":8342.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8342.035343750002,"end":8349.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8350.06784375,"end":8353.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8353.35846875,"end":8356.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8357.05409375,"end":8361.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8361.930968750003,"end":8362.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8363.618468750003,"end":8365.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8365.79534375,"end":8371.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8366.01471875,"end":8366.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8369.76096875,"end":8370.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8371.094093750002,"end":8372.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8372.74784375,"end":8375.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8374.587218750003,"end":8380.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8380.72971875,"end":8381.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8381.08409375,"end":8384.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8384.644718750002,"end":8386.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8387.766593750002,"end":8391.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8391.445343750001,"end":8391.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8392.17096875,"end":8393.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8394.297218750002,"end":8398.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8399.511593750001,"end":8400.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8400.777218750001,"end":8404.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8406.14346875,"end":8409.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8409.99096875,"end":8415.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8415.492218750001,"end":8416.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8416.335968750001,"end":8424.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8425.094093750002,"end":8426.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8426.69721875,"end":8428.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8428.722218750001,"end":8431.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8431.422218750002,"end":8437.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8437.649093750002,"end":8438.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8438.965343750002,"end":8439.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8439.30284375,"end":8439.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8439.690968750001,"end":8439.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8439.707843750002,"end":8447.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8446.84596875,"end":8448.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8449.27596875,"end":8450.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8451.098468750002,"end":8454.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8454.91221875,"end":8456.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8457.29159375,"end":8458.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8458.844093750002,"end":8459.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8460.17721875,"end":8460.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8460.91971875,"end":8469.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8468.327843750001,"end":8474.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8474.68971875,"end":8474.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8474.774093750002,"end":8474.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8474.89221875,"end":8476.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8477.828468750002,"end":8482.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8482.06409375,"end":8482.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8482.65471875,"end":8484.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8484.730343750001,"end":8488.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8489.15159375,"end":8494.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8495.024093750002,"end":8505.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8505.75659375,"end":8513.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8514.210968750001,"end":8518.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8519.13846875,"end":8522.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8522.63159375,"end":8524.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8524.30221875,"end":8529.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8529.668468750002,"end":8530.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8531.17034375,"end":8534.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8535.034718750001,"end":8538.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8538.949718750002,"end":8539.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8540.23221875,"end":8542.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8542.78034375,"end":8547.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8547.555968750003,"end":8551.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8552.16284375,"end":8555.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8555.33534375,"end":8556.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8556.53346875,"end":8558.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8559.149093750002,"end":8559.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8560.296593750001,"end":8560.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8560.313468750002,"end":8560.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8560.33034375,"end":8569.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8560.347218750001,"end":8561.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8567.23221875,"end":8567.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8570.269718750002,"end":8579.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8579.871593750002,"end":8583.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8583.550343750001,"end":8584.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8585.575343750003,"end":8588.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8588.27534375,"end":8602.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8602.011593750001,"end":8604.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8613.65534375,"end":8620.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8621.24909375,"end":8621.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8622.12659375,"end":8622.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8623.527218750001,"end":8624.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8630.53034375,"end":8633.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8634.344093750002,"end":8635.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8644.047218750002,"end":8669.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8644.165343750003,"end":8644.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8670.321593750003,"end":8674.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8675.384093750003,"end":8676.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8678.20221875,"end":8680.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8681.57721875,"end":8684.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8685.15471875,"end":8694.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8694.55409375,"end":8720.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8699.02596875,"end":8700.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8703.227843750003,"end":8704.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8708.864093750002,"end":8709.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8720.79471875,"end":8735.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8721.874718750001,"end":8721.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8722.043468750002,"end":8722.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8734.63221875,"end":8739.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8739.88034375,"end":8744.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8744.16659375,"end":8744.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8744.84159375,"end":8745.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8745.415343750003,"end":8748.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8745.465968750003,"end":8746.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8747.997218750003,"end":8769.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8768.348468750002,"end":8768.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8769.394718750002,"end":8773.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8772.094718750002,"end":8785.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8786.15159375,"end":8789.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8790.437843750002,"end":8791.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8791.703468750002,"end":8798.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8798.53784375,"end":8801.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8801.96346875,"end":8803.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8803.92096875,"end":8838.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8838.784718750001,"end":8849.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8849.53409375,"end":8854.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8854.883468750002,"end":8856.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8857.27971875,"end":8858.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8858.96721875,"end":8881.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8871.89346875,"end":8872.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8872.028468750003,"end":8872.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8872.079093750002,"end":8872.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8872.16346875,"end":8872.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8881.731593750003,"end":8897.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8898.555968750003,"end":8899.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8899.973468750002,"end":8922.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8908.664093750001,"end":8909.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8922.704093750002,"end":8927.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8927.90159375,"end":8928.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8928.99846875,"end":8931.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8938.094093750002,"end":8938.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8939.07284375,"end":8941.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8941.43534375,"end":8941.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8942.02596875,"end":8944.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8944.82721875,"end":8945.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8946.278468750003,"end":8947.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8946.39659375,"end":8946.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8946.41346875,"end":8946.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8946.734093750001,"end":8946.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8948.742218750001,"end":8951.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8951.99909375,"end":8952.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8952.03284375,"end":8952.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8952.134093750003,"end":8958.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8958.495968750001,"end":8958.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8958.512843750003,"end":8968.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8968.97534375,"end":8980.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8975.99534375,"end":8976.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8978.93159375,"end":8984.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8984.38221875,"end":8984.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8984.449718750002,"end":9002.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9003.231593750003,"end":9022.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9022.03034375,"end":9022.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9022.23284375,"end":9022.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9022.92471875,"end":9022.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9022.941593750002,"end":9045.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9045.55409375,"end":9045.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9045.570968750002,"end":9057.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9057.383468750002,"end":9059.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9059.83034375,"end":9077.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9077.66721875,"end":9078.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9078.156593750002,"end":9078.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9079.23659375,"end":9086.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9084.72096875,"end":9084.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9084.737843750001,"end":9084.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9084.77159375,"end":9084.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9084.855968750002,"end":9084.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9084.97409375,"end":9085.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9085.09221875,"end":9085.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9086.914718750002,"end":9088.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9089.00721875,"end":9098.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9097.95096875,"end":9130.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9130.23284375,"end":9156.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9137.40471875,"end":9137.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9137.742218750001,"end":9137.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9157.13159375,"end":9158.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9158.86971875,"end":9159.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9160.574093750001,"end":9161.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9163.122218750003,"end":9165.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9166.159718750001,"end":9166.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9175.84596875,"end":9177.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9184.70534375,"end":9185.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9187.06784375,"end":9188.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9188.890343750001,"end":9189.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9190.02096875,"end":9190.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9190.645343750002,"end":9192.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9193.09221875,"end":9193.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9193.969718750002,"end":9193.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9193.98659375,"end":9194.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9194.20596875,"end":9197.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9197.20971875,"end":9197.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9198.10409375,"end":9199.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9199.74096875,"end":9201.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9202.187843750002,"end":9202.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9202.20471875,"end":9202.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9202.238468750002,"end":9203.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9202.25534375,"end":9203.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9203.031593750002,"end":9203.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9203.11596875,"end":9203.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9203.655968750001,"end":9203.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9203.672843750002,"end":9205.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9203.723468750002,"end":9204.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9204.36471875,"end":9204.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9204.43221875,"end":9204.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9206.27159375,"end":9206.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9207.030968750001,"end":9207.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9207.790343750003,"end":9210.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9210.574718750002,"end":9211.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9212.19471875,"end":9213.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9214.169093750003,"end":9215.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9216.008468750002,"end":9217.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9218.759093750003,"end":9220.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9221.543468750002,"end":9223.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9223.24784375,"end":9223.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9223.93971875,"end":9228.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9228.83346875,"end":9230.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9230.031593750002,"end":9234.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9235.11096875,"end":9235.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9235.97159375,"end":9238.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9238.33409375,"end":9238.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9238.35096875,"end":9238.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9238.367843750002,"end":9238.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9238.97534375,"end":9239.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9239.02596875,"end":9239.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9239.481593750003,"end":9239.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9239.886593750001,"end":9239.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9240.03846875,"end":9240.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9240.426593750002,"end":9242.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9243.09284375,"end":9249.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9247.075343750003,"end":9247.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9250.079093750002,"end":9266.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9266.44784375,"end":9274.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9275.25659375,"end":9280.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9275.324093750001,"end":9275.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9276.52221875,"end":9276.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9280.30221875,"end":9280.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9280.555343750002,"end":9288.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9288.70596875,"end":9292.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9292.85721875,"end":9296.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9295.03409375,"end":9303.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9302.442218750002,"end":9306.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9304.63596875,"end":9312.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9312.499718750001,"end":9320.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9315.722843750002,"end":9316.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9317.528468750003,"end":9318.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9318.524093750002,"end":9327.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9327.97409375,"end":9336.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9335.449718750002,"end":9336.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9337.12034375,"end":9337.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9337.761593750001,"end":9339.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9341.575343750003,"end":9344.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9344.79846875,"end":9345.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9345.06846875,"end":9345.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9345.23721875,"end":9347.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9348.39284375,"end":9357.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9356.374718750001,"end":9376.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9370.06034375,"end":9370.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9370.12784375,"end":9370.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9370.262843750003,"end":9370.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9376.962218750003,"end":9377.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9377.13096875,"end":9377.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9377.164718750002,"end":9378.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9378.56534375,"end":9379.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9379.206593750001,"end":9380.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9380.40471875,"end":9395.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9394.07346875,"end":9395.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9395.59221875,"end":9398.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9398.933468750001,"end":9400.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9400.97534375,"end":9401.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9402.17346875,"end":9404.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9405.312218750001,"end":9406.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9406.76346875,"end":9411.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9411.977843750003,"end":9412.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9412.129718750002,"end":9417.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9417.934718750003,"end":9422.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9422.96346875,"end":9424.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9423.63846875,"end":9423.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9424.043468750002,"end":9424.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9424.43159375,"end":9434.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9434.40471875,"end":9434.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9434.87721875,"end":9440.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9436.699718750002,"end":9437.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9441.10409375,"end":9442.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9442.04909375,"end":9442.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9442.20096875,"end":9474.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9474.145343750002,"end":9474.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9474.63471875,"end":9476.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9476.96346875,"end":9477.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9477.098468750002,"end":9480.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9477.11534375,"end":9484.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9485.434718750003,"end":9490.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9488.387843750003,"end":9488.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9488.40471875,"end":9489.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9489.09659375,"end":9489.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9490.969718750002,"end":9492.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9493.29846875,"end":9493.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9496.707218750002,"end":9499.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9501.027218750001,"end":9501.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9501.870968750001,"end":9503.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9504.199718750002,"end":9506.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9507.473468750002,"end":9508.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9508.95846875,"end":9509.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9509.97096875,"end":9511.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9512.468468750001,"end":9513.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9513.71721875,"end":9518.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9519.10034375,"end":9530.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9519.606593750003,"end":9520.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9532.06034375,"end":9535.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9535.266593750002,"end":9537.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9538.40534375,"end":9543.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9544.29471875,"end":9549.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9549.99846875,"end":9553.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9550.403468750003,"end":9550.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9552.31034375,"end":9552.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9552.816593750002,"end":9557.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9556.360343750002,"end":9563.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9563.532218750002,"end":9567.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9568.39221875,"end":9574.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9574.88909375,"end":9578.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9579.42846875,"end":9581.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9581.89221875,"end":9582.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9582.31409375,"end":9590.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9590.160968750002,"end":9591.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9591.409718750001,"end":9599.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9600.35346875,"end":9602.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9602.85096875,"end":9613.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9613.769093750001,"end":9616.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9617.22846875,"end":9619.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9619.574093750001,"end":9621.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9622.78034375,"end":9633.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9633.74909375,"end":9635.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9635.68971875,"end":9636.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9636.63471875,"end":9638.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9638.727218750002,"end":9646.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9646.945343750001,"end":9649.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9650.792843750001,"end":9651.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9651.36659375,"end":9656.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9657.711593750002,"end":9661.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9661.42409375,"end":9670.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9671.17784375,"end":9672.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9672.899093750002,"end":9673.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9674.14784375,"end":9675.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9675.902843750002,"end":9676.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9677.168468750002,"end":9677.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9678.012218750002,"end":9678.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9680.10471875,"end":9682.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9682.855343750001,"end":9684.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9684.863468750002,"end":9685.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9685.808468750001,"end":9688.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9688.812218750001,"end":9696.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9697.77284375,"end":9698.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9698.59971875,"end":9704.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9704.08409375,"end":9704.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9705.062843750002,"end":9706.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9706.66596875,"end":9709.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9709.230968750002,"end":9724.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9723.50721875,"end":9726.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9726.64596875,"end":9726.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9726.66284375,"end":9726.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9726.747218750003,"end":9726.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9726.76409375,"end":9726.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9726.91596875,"end":9727.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9727.01721875,"end":9727.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9727.03409375,"end":9737.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9736.703468750002,"end":9738.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9738.762218750002,"end":9765.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9766.234718750002,"end":9776.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9768.79971875,"end":9769.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9776.039093750001,"end":9782.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9782.957843750002,"end":9785.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9786.214718750001,"end":9786.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9787.075343750003,"end":9788.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9789.45471875,"end":9791.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9791.969093750002,"end":9792.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9792.559718750003,"end":9800.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9796.94721875,"end":9805.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9802.769093750001,"end":9803.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9803.49471875,"end":9814.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9805.570343750001,"end":9805.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9814.31159375,"end":9814.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9814.598468750002,"end":9817.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9816.42096875,"end":9848.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9834.03846875,"end":9834.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9846.559718750003,"end":9847.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9848.63534375,"end":9851.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9851.723468750002,"end":9851.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9851.85846875,"end":9851.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9856.07721875,"end":9856.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9858.355343750001,"end":9861.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9875.56784375,"end":9876.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9877.59284375,"end":9879.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9880.512218750002,"end":9881.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9882.23346875,"end":9884.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9885.33846875,"end":9887.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9892.25721875,"end":9910.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9910.22909375,"end":9916.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9916.30409375,"end":9916.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9917.468468750001,"end":9922.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9922.800968750002,"end":9924.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9924.336593750002,"end":9925.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9925.804718750001,"end":9926.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9926.969093750002,"end":9927.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9928.335968750001,"end":9929.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9930.563468750002,"end":9931.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9933.17909375,"end":9934.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9934.680968750003,"end":9936.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9935.980343750001,"end":9936.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9936.824093750001,"end":9936.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9936.97596875,"end":9949.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9949.446593750003,"end":9951.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9952.028468750003,"end":9952.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9952.855343750001,"end":9955.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9956.36534375,"end":9959.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9959.605343750001,"end":9960.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9961.10721875,"end":9962.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9962.777843750002,"end":9963.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9963.300968750002,"end":9984.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9983.16284375,"end":9984.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9984.10784375,"end":9984.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9984.293468750002,"end":9995.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9995.363468750002,"end":10009.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10008.964718750001,"end":10009.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10010.46659375,"end":10010.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10011.715343750002,"end":10012.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10013.301593750002,"end":10015.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10015.63034375,"end":10017.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10017.925343750001,"end":10020.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10020.827843750001,"end":10022.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10022.937218750001,"end":10025.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10025.70471875,"end":10027.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10028.269718750002,"end":10028.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10028.92784375,"end":10034.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10035.222218750001,"end":10054.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10055.387843750003,"end":10056.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10057.39596875,"end":10059.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10060.180343750002,"end":10062.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10063.16721875,"end":10064.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10065.344093750002,"end":10075.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10075.671593750001,"end":10077.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10077.13971875,"end":10087.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10087.922843750002,"end":10094.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10091.26409375,"end":10094.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10094.53784375,"end":10099.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10100.528468750003,"end":10104.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10105.422218750002,"end":10106.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10106.67096875,"end":10112.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10110.50159375,"end":10116.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10116.660968750002,"end":10157.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10157.39721875,"end":10167.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10166.712218750003,"end":10172.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10168.281593750002,"end":10168.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10173.22596875,"end":10174.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10174.356593750003,"end":10179.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10178.81159375,"end":10185.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10185.29159375,"end":10221.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10221.62346875,"end":10230.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10230.16221875,"end":10232.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10232.81159375,"end":10249.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10248.62346875,"end":10252.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10252.555343750002,"end":10254.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10254.79971875,"end":10266.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10254.85034375,"end":10255.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10266.54471875,"end":10271.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10271.910968750002,"end":10275.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10275.977843750003,"end":10289.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10289.730968750002,"end":10290.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10290.91221875,"end":10294.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10293.88221875,"end":10305.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10305.03659375,"end":10307.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10305.62721875,"end":10306.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10307.027843750002,"end":10309.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10308.85034375,"end":10339.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10338.85409375,"end":10344.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10342.12784375,"end":10342.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10344.38909375,"end":10347.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10345.97534375,"end":10346.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10346.211593750002,"end":10346.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10347.375968750002,"end":10347.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10347.66284375,"end":10347.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10352.489093750002,"end":10356.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10364.38596875,"end":10366.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10366.832843750002,"end":10367.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10367.47409375,"end":10367.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10367.609093750001,"end":10367.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10372.85721875,"end":10378.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10378.594718750002,"end":10386.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10386.644093750001,"end":10390.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10390.84596875,"end":10391.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10392.36471875,"end":10398.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10398.034718750001,"end":10398.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10398.13596875,"end":10398.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10398.203468750002,"end":10398.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10398.28784375,"end":10398.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10398.54096875,"end":10398.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10398.81096875,"end":10398.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10398.878468750001,"end":10410.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10405.18971875,"end":10405.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10405.206593750001,"end":10405.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10405.527218750001,"end":10405.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10409.10471875,"end":10410.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10410.47159375,"end":10411.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10411.872218750003,"end":10415.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10415.93909375,"end":10417.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10417.96409375,"end":10422.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10419.21284375,"end":10420.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10420.765343750001,"end":10422.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10423.11096875,"end":10425.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10425.86159375,"end":10429.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10429.48971875,"end":10429.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10430.384093750003,"end":10430.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10430.40096875,"end":10430.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10430.907218750002,"end":10431.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10430.907218750002,"end":10431.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10431.02534375,"end":10431.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10431.98721875,"end":10432.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10432.03784375,"end":10441.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10441.184093750002,"end":10443.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10444.339718750001,"end":10447.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10447.714718750001,"end":10451.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10451.410343750002,"end":10453.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10453.92471875,"end":10454.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10455.257843750001,"end":10456.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10456.50659375,"end":10457.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10457.02971875,"end":10470.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10467.981593750003,"end":10468.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10469.922218750002,"end":10471.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10471.440968750001,"end":10472.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10473.347843750002,"end":10474.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10475.136593750001,"end":10477.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10477.65096875,"end":10479.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10479.405968750001,"end":10480.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10480.789718750002,"end":10484.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10485.54846875,"end":10486.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10485.632843750001,"end":10486.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10486.51034375,"end":10486.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10487.016593750002,"end":10498.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10489.328468750002,"end":10490.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10499.06534375,"end":10499.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10499.09909375,"end":10499.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10499.132843750001,"end":10499.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10499.36909375,"end":10499.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10499.43659375,"end":10499.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10499.706593750001,"end":10499.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10499.79096875,"end":10499.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10499.89221875,"end":10509.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10510.067843750003,"end":10524.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10525.356593750003,"end":10532.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10533.16971875,"end":10591.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10592.012843750003,"end":10593.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10594.965968750003,"end":10597.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10598.442218750002,"end":10598.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10599.52221875,"end":10602.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10603.015343750001,"end":10603.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10603.20096875,"end":10603.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10603.977218750002,"end":10608.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10608.11159375,"end":10610.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10610.84534375,"end":10611.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10611.503468750001,"end":10612.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10612.02659375,"end":10612.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10612.75221875,"end":10621.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10615.48596875,"end":10615.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10621.594718750002,"end":10624.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10625.45909375,"end":10648.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10648.45971875,"end":10653.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10653.927218750003,"end":10655.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10656.67784375,"end":10661.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10661.132843750001,"end":10665.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10663.630343750003,"end":10688.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10666.02659375,"end":10666.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10673.333468750003,"end":10673.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10674.04221875,"end":10674.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10681.770968750003,"end":10681.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10681.804718750001,"end":10681.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10681.973468750002,"end":10682.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10688.234093750001,"end":10692.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10692.722843750002,"end":10695.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10695.76034375,"end":10699.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10699.962218750003,"end":10705.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10704.484718750002,"end":10705.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10705.31159375,"end":10706.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10706.239718750003,"end":10706.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10706.391593750002,"end":10706.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10706.442218750002,"end":10730.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10706.45909375,"end":10707.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10731.265343750001,"end":10770.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10776.878468750001,"end":10777.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10777.890968750002,"end":10778.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10778.97096875,"end":10779.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10779.17346875,"end":10783.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10791.036593750003,"end":10794.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10797.938468750002,"end":10797.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10797.95534375,"end":10798.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10798.02284375,"end":10798.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10798.461593750002,"end":10800.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10800.149093750002,"end":10801.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10805.262218750002,"end":10806.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10807.43909375,"end":10809.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10810.223468750002,"end":10812.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10812.974093750003,"end":10819.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10820.129093750002,"end":10828.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10829.02221875,"end":10832.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10832.81909375,"end":10835.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10836.362843750001,"end":10837.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10838.067218750002,"end":10844.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10843.500968750002,"end":10847.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10844.68221875,"end":10844.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10847.38221875,"end":10849.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10848.917843750001,"end":10851.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10852.309718750003,"end":10855.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10854.80721875,"end":10855.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10855.718468750001,"end":10856.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10856.562218750001,"end":10857.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10857.692843750003,"end":10859.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10858.620968750001,"end":10863.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10862.434718750003,"end":10863.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10863.734093750001,"end":10866.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10864.797218750002,"end":10867.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10868.442218750002,"end":10871.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10872.15471875,"end":10873.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10874.78721875,"end":10875.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10875.495968750001,"end":10876.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10876.74471875,"end":10878.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10878.128468750001,"end":10878.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10878.63471875,"end":10885.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10885.992218750001,"end":10891.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10891.476593750001,"end":10892.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10893.14721875,"end":10897.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10897.652843750002,"end":10900.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10900.504718750002,"end":10906.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10906.69784375,"end":10908.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10908.503468750001,"end":10909.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10909.39784375,"end":10909.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10909.414718750002,"end":10910.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10910.039093750001,"end":10914.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10912.28346875,"end":10912.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10912.317218750002,"end":10912.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10912.97534375,"end":10913.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10913.684093750002,"end":10914.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10914.730343750001,"end":10914.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10914.899093750002,"end":10923.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10916.333468750003,"end":10918.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10921.868468750003,"end":10924.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10924.973468750002,"end":10932.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10933.00596875,"end":10933.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10933.05659375,"end":10936.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10937.477843750003,"end":10939.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10939.958468750003,"end":10942.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10942.067843750003,"end":10942.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10942.92846875,"end":10943.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10943.45159375,"end":10947.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10948.817843750003,"end":10949.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10950.35346875,"end":10951.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10952.294093750003,"end":10955.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10955.43284375,"end":10965.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10966.08096875,"end":10975.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10972.66221875,"end":10974.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10975.952843750001,"end":10979.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10979.665343750003,"end":10979.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10979.699093750001,"end":10984.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10979.715968750003,"end":10980.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10982.972843750002,"end":10983.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10984.84596875,"end":10985.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10985.031593750002,"end":10985.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10987.86659375,"end":10988.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10989.098468750002,"end":10995.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10992.777218750001,"end":10992.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10992.794093750003,"end":10993.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10993.03034375,"end":10993.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10993.97534375,"end":10994.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10994.02596875,"end":10994.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10994.042843750001,"end":10994.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10994.110343750002,"end":10994.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10995.375968750002,"end":10995.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10995.477218750002,"end":10998.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10999.30784375,"end":11004.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11001.07971875,"end":11001.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11004.82596875,"end":11005.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11005.281593750002,"end":11012.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11012.84159375,"end":11016.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11016.992843750002,"end":11018.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11018.039093750001,"end":11018.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11018.32596875,"end":11018.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11018.359718750002,"end":11018.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11018.39346875,"end":11024.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11022.56159375,"end":11030.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11032.399718750003,"end":11041.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11042.558468750001,"end":11042.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11043.149093750002,"end":11043.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11043.28409375,"end":11043.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11043.402218750001,"end":11043.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11045.190968750001,"end":11051.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11052.04221875,"end":11053.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11053.56096875,"end":11057.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11057.762843750003,"end":11057.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11058.117218750001,"end":11058.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11058.134093750003,"end":11059.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11059.500968750002,"end":11074.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11065.930343750002,"end":11067.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11074.97534375,"end":11083.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11084.020343750002,"end":11100.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11101.148468750001,"end":11103.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11102.380343750003,"end":11102.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11102.49846875,"end":11102.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11102.97096875,"end":11103.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11104.371593750002,"end":11108.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11108.03346875,"end":11108.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11108.067218750002,"end":11108.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11108.759093750003,"end":11108.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11108.77596875,"end":11137.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11120.11596875,"end":11120.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11120.554718750001,"end":11121.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11121.80346875,"end":11124.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11126.59596875,"end":11127.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11137.969718750002,"end":11144.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11144.93909375,"end":11145.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11145.00659375,"end":11145.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11145.023468750001,"end":11145.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11145.25971875,"end":11145.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11145.27659375,"end":11145.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11145.95159375,"end":11145.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11145.968468750001,"end":11149.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11146.32284375,"end":11147.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11149.680968750003,"end":11152.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11149.883468750002,"end":11151.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11152.44846875,"end":11154.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11154.16971875,"end":11154.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11154.270968750003,"end":11155.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11156.954093750002,"end":11159.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11159.907218750002,"end":11160.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11160.700343750003,"end":11170.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11172.040343750003,"end":11187.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11188.004093750002,"end":11192.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11193.37034375,"end":11197.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11197.808468750001,"end":11203.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11204.187218750001,"end":11215.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11215.78034375,"end":11224.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11218.395968750003,"end":11218.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11218.83471875,"end":11218.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11224.859093750001,"end":11225.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11225.399093750002,"end":11236.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11237.262218750002,"end":11238.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11239.40534375,"end":11243.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11243.94471875,"end":11251.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11251.21784375,"end":11263.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11262.422843750002,"end":11264.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11264.481593750003,"end":11268.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11264.81909375,"end":11266.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11267.856593750003,"end":11276.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11272.598468750002,"end":11280.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11276.56409375,"end":11277.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11281.980968750002,"end":11282.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11282.80784375,"end":11286.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11283.870968750001,"end":11284.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11285.254718750002,"end":11287.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11287.60034375,"end":11289.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11288.49471875,"end":11293.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11290.317218750002,"end":11290.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11293.962218750003,"end":11298.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11297.97846875,"end":11300.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11299.21034375,"end":11304.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11301.269093750001,"end":11307.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11308.255343750003,"end":11333.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11319.59534375,"end":11321.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11333.93909375,"end":11334.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11334.664718750002,"end":11338.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11337.364718750003,"end":11340.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11341.06034375,"end":11343.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11341.43159375,"end":11350.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11350.61159375,"end":11363.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11351.15159375,"end":11351.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11358.711593750002,"end":11360.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11362.559093750002,"end":11372.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11363.89221875,"end":11371.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11374.01721875,"end":11375.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11374.75971875,"end":11379.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11377.67909375,"end":11384.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11380.51409375,"end":11389.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11388.445343750001,"end":11419.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11395.296593750001,"end":11396.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11396.64659375,"end":11396.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11404.999718750001,"end":11409.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11410.905968750001,"end":11412.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11416.829093750002,"end":11417.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11417.63909375,"end":11419.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11419.664093750001,"end":11421.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11420.42346875,"end":11423.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11421.840968750003,"end":11431.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11424.13596875,"end":11426.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11427.76409375,"end":11431.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11431.61159375,"end":11439.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11439.00284375,"end":11444.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11439.914093750001,"end":11447.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11446.343468750001,"end":11449.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11447.457218750002,"end":11460.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11461.04159375,"end":11461.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11462.40846875,"end":11466.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11466.89721875,"end":11468.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11469.884093750003,"end":11475.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11476.313468750002,"end":11479.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11480.29596875,"end":11483.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11483.56971875,"end":11485.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11485.98284375,"end":11488.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11488.919093750003,"end":11490.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11490.77534375,"end":11491.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11491.99034375,"end":11494.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11495.196593750003,"end":11497.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11497.42409375,"end":11509.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11509.590968750003,"end":11510.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11510.02971875,"end":11510.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11510.56971875,"end":11511.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11510.940968750001,"end":11510.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11511.12659375,"end":11514.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11514.34971875,"end":11519.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11519.969093750002,"end":11532.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11533.40159375,"end":11547.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11559.76034375,"end":11562.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11562.13971875,"end":11562.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11562.426593750002,"end":11563.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11563.793468750002,"end":11564.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11564.907218750002,"end":11566.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11570.391593750002,"end":11570.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11570.442218750002,"end":11571.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11573.699093750001,"end":11578.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11578.930343750002,"end":11580.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11580.719093750002,"end":11583.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11583.942218750002,"end":11585.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11585.54534375,"end":11586.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11586.878468750001,"end":11589.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11590.18596875,"end":11591.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11593.425968750002,"end":11593.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11594.286593750003,"end":11595.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11596.007843750001,"end":11597.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11598.285968750002,"end":11601.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11601.37409375,"end":11603.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11604.242843750002,"end":11607.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11608.07346875,"end":11609.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11609.895968750003,"end":11611.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11611.75221875,"end":11612.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11612.66346875,"end":11613.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11613.827843750001,"end":11614.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11615.02596875,"end":11617.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11617.45596875,"end":11618.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11618.50221875,"end":11619.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11619.649718750003,"end":11620.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11621.050343750001,"end":11623.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11624.03721875,"end":11625.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11625.79221875,"end":11628.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11629.11659375,"end":11629.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11629.757843750001,"end":11631.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11632.238468750002,"end":11634.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11634.22971875,"end":11637.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11637.58784375,"end":11638.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11638.85346875,"end":11645.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11645.87346875,"end":11646.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11646.852218750002,"end":11652.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11652.89346875,"end":11655.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11656.11659375,"end":11657.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11657.48346875,"end":11658.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11659.457843750002,"end":11662.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11662.883468750002,"end":11666.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11666.49471875,"end":11668.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11668.50284375,"end":11678.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11678.35784375,"end":11679.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11679.960968750001,"end":11683.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11684.36534375,"end":11684.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11685.58034375,"end":11686.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11687.41971875,"end":11688.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11689.292843750001,"end":11690.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11691.23346875,"end":11692.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11693.02221875,"end":11694.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11695.01346875,"end":11695.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11696.532218750002,"end":11699.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11699.384093750003,"end":11703.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11703.72096875,"end":11705.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11706.589718750001,"end":11725.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11726.24909375,"end":11730.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11730.434093750002,"end":11756.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11753.434718750003,"end":11754.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11755.425968750002,"end":11756.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11756.286593750003,"end":11756.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11756.370968750001,"end":11756.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11756.55659375,"end":11756.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11756.894093750001,"end":11761.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11761.73721875,"end":11762.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11763.458468750003,"end":11764.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11764.62284375,"end":11765.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11766.664718750002,"end":11768.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11768.68971875,"end":11772.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11773.347218750001,"end":11774.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11774.612843750001,"end":11775.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11775.692843750003,"end":11776.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11777.12721875,"end":11780.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11781.02534375,"end":11783.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11783.97846875,"end":11784.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11785.66596875,"end":11787.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11787.45471875,"end":11788.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11789.395343750002,"end":11791.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11792.36534375,"end":11793.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11793.664718750002,"end":11795.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11795.284718750001,"end":11798.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11799.23346875,"end":11801.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11801.69721875,"end":11804.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11804.987843750001,"end":11806.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11806.894718750002,"end":11808.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11809.071593750003,"end":11809.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11810.57346875,"end":11813.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11813.89784375,"end":11816.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11817.222218750001,"end":11818.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11818.47096875,"end":11818.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11819.48346875,"end":11820.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11821.289093750001,"end":11821.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11822.80784375,"end":11825.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11825.76096875,"end":11826.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11826.80721875,"end":11828.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11828.477843750003,"end":11831.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11832.02159375,"end":11832.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11833.253468750001,"end":11835.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11836.054718750001,"end":11836.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11837.30346875,"end":11840.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11842.079093750002,"end":11844.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11845.082843750002,"end":11846.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11846.90534375,"end":11848.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11849.520968750003,"end":11850.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11851.52909375,"end":11857.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11858.39721875,"end":11859.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11860.169093750003,"end":11861.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11861.468468750001,"end":11862.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11862.66659375,"end":11863.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11864.759093750003,"end":11867.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11868.04971875,"end":11871.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11871.711593750002,"end":11872.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11873.399093750002,"end":11877.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11877.75284375,"end":11878.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11878.731593750003,"end":11880.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11880.65534375,"end":11881.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11882.32596875,"end":11884.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11885.07659375,"end":11885.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11886.105968750002,"end":11888.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11888.55284375,"end":11888.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11888.82284375,"end":11892.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11893.817843750003,"end":11895.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11896.51784375,"end":11899.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11899.757843750001,"end":11900.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11901.00659375,"end":11901.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11902.52534375,"end":11904.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11904.53346875,"end":11906.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11906.609093750001,"end":11908.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11908.49909375,"end":11909.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11909.781593750002,"end":11910.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11911.570343750001,"end":11913.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11913.848468750002,"end":11916.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11917.18971875,"end":11919.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11919.92346875,"end":11920.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11921.273468750001,"end":11923.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11924.344718750002,"end":11926.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11927.230343750001,"end":11928.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11930.402843750002,"end":11932.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11932.782218750002,"end":11933.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11934.38534375,"end":11935.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11935.718468750001,"end":11936.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11937.11909375,"end":11942.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11943.66659375,"end":11945.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11945.640968750002,"end":11951.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11947.007843750001,"end":11947.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11947.26096875,"end":11947.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11950.63596875,"end":11951.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11952.559718750003,"end":11953.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11953.234718750002,"end":11964.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11960.507843750001,"end":11961.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11963.629718750002,"end":11967.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11967.44346875,"end":11968.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11968.87784375,"end":11971.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11971.40909375,"end":11972.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11972.843468750001,"end":11973.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11974.530968750001,"end":11975.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11976.606593750003,"end":11978.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11979.120968750001,"end":11980.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11981.601593750001,"end":11983.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11984.21721875,"end":11985.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11985.719093750002,"end":11986.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11986.52909375,"end":11987.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11988.250343750002,"end":11990.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11990.984093750001,"end":11992.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11992.587218750003,"end":11995.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11995.60784375,"end":11997.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11997.852218750002,"end":11999.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12000.29909375,"end":12001.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12003.437843750002,"end":12004.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12005.648468750001,"end":12006.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12006.711593750002,"end":12008.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12009.175343750001,"end":12010.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12010.84596875,"end":12012.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12014.457218750002,"end":12014.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12014.96346875,"end":12015.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12017.106593750003,"end":12028.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12028.83471875,"end":12041.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12040.10721875,"end":12043.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12044.24159375,"end":12045.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12045.743468750003,"end":12048.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12048.56159375,"end":12050.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12051.07596875,"end":12052.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12053.03346875,"end":12056.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12056.594093750002,"end":12058.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12058.484093750001,"end":12062.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12063.32721875,"end":12064.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12064.84596875,"end":12070.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12071.460968750001,"end":12073.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12073.418468750002,"end":12076.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12077.23221875,"end":12078.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12078.51471875,"end":12081.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12082.46346875,"end":12084.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12084.758468750002,"end":12085.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12086.226593750001,"end":12088.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12089.129093750002,"end":12093.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12094.64721875,"end":12095.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12095.96346875,"end":12105.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12097.27971875,"end":12098.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12104.333468750003,"end":12104.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12105.210968750001,"end":12108.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12106.915343750003,"end":12111.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12109.83471875,"end":12109.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12111.235343750002,"end":12112.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12111.927218750003,"end":12112.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12117.985343750002,"end":12118.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12119.183468750001,"end":12122.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12123.098468750002,"end":12127.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12133.122218750003,"end":12134.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12134.843468750001,"end":12136.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12139.129718750002,"end":12140.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12141.542843750001,"end":12141.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12144.344093750002,"end":12145.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12145.812218750001,"end":12146.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12146.875343750002,"end":12147.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12147.43221875,"end":12148.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12148.12409375,"end":12148.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12151.195343750001,"end":12170.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12164.10471875,"end":12164.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12165.539093750001,"end":12166.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12170.179718750001,"end":12180.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12178.684718750003,"end":12180.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12180.034718750001,"end":12195.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12192.117218750001,"end":12193.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12195.964718750001,"end":12198.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12198.74909375,"end":12206.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12205.11096875,"end":12209.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12210.13971875,"end":12212.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12212.789093750001,"end":12213.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12214.324718750002,"end":12219.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12219.927218750003,"end":12236.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12236.481593750003,"end":12247.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12247.956593750001,"end":12251.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12252.31034375,"end":12256.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12256.461593750002,"end":12260.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12261.38909375,"end":12269.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12269.08409375,"end":12281.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12281.38596875,"end":12281.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12281.571593750003,"end":12282.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12282.972218750001,"end":12283.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12284.102843750003,"end":12295.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12290.76846875,"end":12290.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12290.97096875,"end":12291.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12295.527218750001,"end":12320.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12318.645968750003,"end":12319.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12320.14784375,"end":12339.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12327.690968750001,"end":12327.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12327.99471875,"end":12328.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12337.039718750002,"end":12339.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12339.95909375,"end":12352.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12339.992843750002,"end":12340.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12347.70471875,"end":12347.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12351.83909375,"end":12354.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12354.117218750001,"end":12355.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12355.129718750002,"end":12359.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12355.16346875,"end":12356.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12358.21784375,"end":12358.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12360.985343750002,"end":12361.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12361.035968750002,"end":12362.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12362.504093750002,"end":12378.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12376.66221875,"end":12387.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12387.884093750003,"end":12388.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12388.96409375,"end":12392.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12392.187218750001,"end":12392.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12395.612843750001,"end":12396.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12399.831593750001,"end":12432.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12433.66596875,"end":12469.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12478.958468750003,"end":12479.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12479.07659375,"end":12479.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12479.70096875,"end":12479.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12479.734718750002,"end":12479.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12479.97096875,"end":12480.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12480.03846875,"end":12480.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12480.46034375,"end":12480.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12480.477218750002,"end":12480.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12480.527843750002,"end":12480.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12480.54471875,"end":12480.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12480.56159375,"end":12480.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12480.71346875,"end":12480.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12480.730343750001,"end":12480.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12480.96659375,"end":12481.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12481.067843750003,"end":12481.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12481.118468750003,"end":12481.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12504.91221875,"end":12506.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12507.409718750001,"end":12510.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12511.375343750002,"end":12512.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12520.11659375,"end":12521.280968750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":94.871,"end":95.876,"text":"主席"},{"start":1204.068,"end":1208.522,"text":"主席"},{"start":1254.187,"end":1256.78,"text":"主席"},{"start":1339.949,"end":1359.917,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":1704.687,"end":1719.098,"text":"好,我們正式開會來請組密報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員11人以主法定人數好,我們現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議事錄"},{"start":1722.093,"end":1727.198,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年4月10日星期三9時至10時50分4月11日星期四9時2分至13時41分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員邱益穎委員等14人列席委員吳秉樂委員等後11人"},{"start":1743.332,"end":1767.708,"text":"列席人員113年4月10日星期三國發會副主委有建華暨相關人員主計總處、人民會教育部、文化部、內政部、衛福部、法務部等各機關代表暨相關人員4月11日星期四農業部代理部長陳俊暨暨相關人員、人民會教育部、海委會、法務部等各機關代表主席、邱昭紀委員役役員"},{"start":1768.708,"end":1782.915,"text":"4月10日星期三報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄決定第5次會議意思錄當日因地震宣讀後尚未確定連同第6次會議意思錄一併確定討論事項繼續審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":1784.147,"end":1804.802,"text":"非營業部分關於行政院主管：行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花農地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金。決議甲：行政院主管：作業基金、行政院國家發展基金：業務計畫因依據業務收支轉投資、國內資產制建設改良、擴充及資金運用等項的審查結果隨同調整。"},{"start":1805.843,"end":1806.404,"text":"1.業務總收入287億7153萬元2."},{"start":1806.404,"end":1807.385,"text":"業務總支出51億1756萬2千元3."},{"start":1807.385,"end":1808.186,"text":"本期剩餘236億5396萬8千元均照列"},{"start":1821.357,"end":1822.118,"text":"3.結繳公庫金額283億7226萬1千元兆列4."},{"start":1822.118,"end":1822.718,"text":"四轉投資計畫五列數5."},{"start":1822.718,"end":1823.839,"text":"固定資產地限設改良擴充3939萬元兆列6."},{"start":1823.839,"end":1824.84,"text":"國庫增多基金額五列數7."},{"start":1824.84,"end":1824.86,"text":"通過決議33項2."},{"start":1824.86,"end":1825.481,"text":"特別收入基金"},{"start":1839.835,"end":1853.431,"text":"離島建設基金一業務計劃應據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整二基金來源用途及輿促一基金來源元月9億零152萬2千元配合123年度中央政府總預算審議結果"},{"start":1855.601,"end":1873.145,"text":"簡略國家發展基金會第12目非營業特種基金第一屆離島建設基金向下補充離島建設基金中設備及投資3,420萬元本項因隨同修正簡略政府撥入收入向下供戶撥款收入3,420萬元改列為8億6,732萬2千元二基金目途9億59萬9千元照列三原本"},{"start":1881.747,"end":1901.934,"text":"原列本期剩餘92萬3千元,減列3420萬元,改列為短處3327萬7千元,三截角工庫,五列數,四通過決議八項,三特別收入基金,花東地區永續發展基金,一業務計劃,一應據基金來源與用途審查結果,隨同調整,二基金來源用途及餘處,"},{"start":1902.694,"end":1925.398,"text":"一、基金來源600萬元二、基金用途27億零629萬1千元三、本期短促27億零29萬1千元均照列三、結繳公庫列數四、通過決議三項四、特別收入基金促進轉型正義基金一、業務計畫因依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整二、基金來源用途給予促一、基金來源6918萬1千元二、基金用途1億6274萬8千元三、本期短促"},{"start":1932.299,"end":1958.278,"text":"九千三百五十六萬七千元均照列三節繳工庫列數四通過決議五項一百一三年四月十一日星期四討論事項一審查一行政院行政審議遠洋一月條例第十四條之一、第三十六條之一及第四十七條條文修正草案案討論事項合併詢答委員邱振軍、楊瓊英、王傑、吳立華與李玉琳及張雅琳說明提案要旨"},{"start":1959.5,"end":1977.239,"text":"農業部代理部長陳俊濟報告後委員林黛樺等21人提出質詢均由農業部代理部長及原民會經發處長宋麗如及相關人員及其答覆登記發言委員處不在場走開局域經與發言完畢訓導結束委員陳冠廷及邱正軍所提出的質詢列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":1978.48,"end":1997.716,"text":"書面質詢和未及答覆部分請交案單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會二委員邱振均等18案拟據遠洋漁業條例部分條文修正草案案三委員楊瓊英等21人拟據遠洋漁業條例增訂第14條之一及第38條之一條文草案決議依第三條條文照委員邱振均等人提案通過"},{"start":1999.569,"end":2022.514,"text":"2.第14條之1條文3.第36條之1條文4.第47條條文均照行政院提案通過5.併案審查完略拒拒審查報告提報委員會討論不需教育的黨團學商並推請秋招級委員議員院會討論時作補充說明2.審查1.行政院函勤審議野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案案2.委員鄭天才等人3.委員賴樂榮等人4.委員黃婕等人5."},{"start":2024.995,"end":2053.631,"text":"委員吳立華等人6、委員郭育晴等人分別擬具《野生動物保育法》部分條文修正草案案7、委員李玉玲等人擬具《野生動物保育法》第19條、第21條及第21條之一條文修正草案案8、委員張雅瑩等人擬具《野生動物保育法》部分條文修正草案案決議1、第二條條文照行政提案通過2、委員郭育晴等人提案第4條條文不予通過維持現行法條文"},{"start":2055.257,"end":2070.541,"text":"3、第19條條文所有提案及委員楊瓊英等人及委員林黛樺、關乎吳立華等人分別所提修正動議均保留、送院會處理。 4、第21條條文所有提案及委員林黛樺、關乎吳立華等人所提修正動議均保留、送院會處理。 5、第21條"},{"start":2072.802,"end":2091.969,"text":"之一條文所有提案及委員林丹化、關火、吳立華等人所提修正公益均保留、送卷會處理六委員張雅玲等人提案第31條條文不予通過維持現行法條文七第37條條文八第50條之一條文九第51條條文均照行政院提案通過十第51條之一"},{"start":2094.637,"end":2121.203,"text":"條文所有提案及委員張啟凱、瓜虎、高金、素梅等人所提修正動議均保留送院會處理。11.第52條條文造行論提案通過12通過附帶決議兩項,13附帶決議一項保留送院會處理。14.並按審查文據拟據審查報告提報院會討論需交由黨團協商並推請秋招及委員與院會討論時作補充說明。主席宣告通過決議之文字及條文相關法制用語授權主席及議事人員整理、散會、宣讀而畢。"},{"start":2127.142,"end":2134.907,"text":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。今日詢答宣讀完畢"},{"start":2153.339,"end":2167.541,"text":"那本日議程所列討論事項為審查113年度經濟部主管附屬單位預算非營業部分的尋答那首先我們請經濟部王美花部長請做報告"},{"start":2177.485,"end":2184.649,"text":"主席各位委員那今天經濟部就主管的4個作業基金非營業的作業基金來跟各位委員做報告那第一個是經濟的作業基金那這個主要是包括這個科技產業園區的作業基金跟產業園區開發的管理基金那這個主要就是之前的這個加工出口區的作業基金跟"},{"start":2201.564,"end":2207.793,"text":"工業局的這個管理基金這兩個部分那名稱做修正的部分那在113年度業務的總收入是83億2000餘元總支出是76億5000餘元那剩餘的是6億6000餘元"},{"start":2217.526,"end":2217.566,"text":"第11屆第1會議"},{"start":2236.517,"end":2243.802,"text":"科技產業園區作業基金辦理男子科業產業園區第三園區的用地取得以及高軟第二園區的第一棟大樓的興建計畫。第二個水資源作業基金主要是有包括水庫經營管理跟河川輸菌的管理輸菌跟清淤以及發電以及觀光等等四大項還有包括溫泉政策規劃跟技術的研究發展"},{"start":2265.416,"end":2269.859,"text":"那在113年度的業務收入有91億1千餘元業務的支出是110億200餘元那短處18億8千餘元那較112年度增加短處7億2千餘元那主要是配合擴大清淤那辦理入化作業跟增加抽泥沙以致積水的銷貨成本增加另外烏溪鳥嘴潭工程"},{"start":2292.914,"end":2294.976,"text":"依照計畫在112年已經完成了土石標售作業所以113年度就減編相關土石銷售的收入那在固定資產的建設部分113年度計畫13億9千餘元"},{"start":2308.485,"end":2333.556,"text":"主要是辦理中央管河川的數據工程用地徵收以及大安大甲溪聯通管的大甲溪輸水管工程的建設第三項是經濟特別收入基金主要包括經濟部下面的推廣貿易基金、能源研究發展基金石油基金、再生能源發展基金以及中小企業發展基金等等"},{"start":2334.457,"end":2348.991,"text":"主要當然就包括負責貿易推廣的工作、能源研究發展的工作政府的儲油、石油開發跟技術研究的計畫再生能源的推廣計畫、中小企業的發展計畫特別是針對新創中小企業加強資金融通"},{"start":2354.937,"end":2356.84,"text":"出盡轉型升級優化相關的輔導措施那在113年度的這個預算來源有254億2000餘元用途有225億3000餘元"},{"start":2369.434,"end":2375.156,"text":"那剩餘的是28億9千餘元,較112年度增加剩餘24億7千餘元那這個主要是供庫的撥款收入增加所致那第四大項就是核能發電的後端營運基金那這個主要包括低放射廢棄物的處理跟儲存計畫"},{"start":2391.343,"end":2413.569,"text":"低放射廢棄物的最終處置計劃用過核燃料的儲存計劃用過核燃料最終處置計劃以及核子設施除役拆廠及其廢棄物處理跟最終處置的計劃等等各項工作那113年度的基金來源是267億7千餘元用途是64億4千餘元剩餘有203億餘元"},{"start":2419.31,"end":2424.335,"text":"叫112年度增加剩餘6億9千餘元：這個主要是預估長期的貸款購買公債金額增加以及利率上升利息的收入增加所致以上是本部的非營業基金113年度的預算的簡要的說明 敬請各位指教"},{"start":2446.871,"end":2455.01,"text":"好 謝謝部長的報告 那麼在場委員足以三人請問上次會議意思錄有無異我們意思錄確認 那麼現在呢"},{"start":2457.355,"end":2482.975,"text":"我們每位在報告結束之後我們現在進行詢答委員質詢前依照慣例主席台做幾項的宣布每位委員發言的時間本委員會6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘非本委會4分鐘必要時延長1分鐘上午10點半截止發言登記我們請登記第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言謝謝有請部長"},{"start":2486.297,"end":2510.399,"text":"我們請王部長我們缺水危機正在來襲而且是更加嚴重今天我們政府應該嚴陣以待包括今天我們的報導是頭條水情景超越百年大旱"},{"start":2513.731,"end":2532.157,"text":"市門蓄水率剩24%可以說是我們前三大水庫依照剛才最新的一個水庫的狀況前三大水庫幾乎都是平均20幾%而已的蓄水量本期就針對極端氣候下的降水"},{"start":2533.317,"end":2551.864,"text":"請請跟缺水也正在進行的狀態以及用水政策跟配套跟您做的這個討論以及最後本期的具體要求好在極端氣候下呢本期在3月的時候也這個向中央氣象署所知了既然我們台灣每月的11"},{"start":2553.084,"end":2570.355,"text":"每年5月至10月是枯水期,每年5月至10月是豐水期,而豐水期的水源來源兩個,第一個是梅雨,第二個是颱風。按照今年中央氣象署的研判,在今年豐水期當中3至5月以及6至8月北中南東"},{"start":2571.736,"end":2583.37,"text":"下雨是正常偏少的颱風在西北太平洋的颱風是正常偏少的所以雨量每雨颱風都是偏正常偏少"},{"start":2584.741,"end":2606.107,"text":"那缺水的部分呢過去都是17、8年一個大循環什麼大循環呢一個大旱一個這個大水現在已經縮短7到9年就是一個大旱跟大水所以臺灣長期仰賴水庫的供水氣候變遷的這個時代甚至我們在將近30年前發生了臺灣歷年56年來首次沒有颱風入境而也發生最大規模的乾旱"},{"start":2613.649,"end":2633.87,"text":"那目前這個我們的水情拉緊抱水量也持續下降21座的水庫14座的蓄水量是不到4成其中8座的蓄水量是跌破3成雖然這個今天下了大雨是天佑台灣了但是對集水區的水土狀態"},{"start":2636.152,"end":2650.737,"text":"有了大旱之後有了大水那個水質那個地表一定是不穩定的再加上我們在來了7.6的震7.6級的這個地震所以我想這個積水區的相關的"},{"start":2652.288,"end":2668.615,"text":"地質狀況：水土保持狀況也要請在這邊本席也提出提醒那對於用水政策既然今年都可以預估是缺水的你們是怎麼調配民生、農業、工業用水呢目前這個強水的狀態會是什麼樣的"},{"start":2672.156,"end":2686.601,"text":"的這個調配呢那部長以及針對4月的春季跟5月的梅雨如果降雨情形不加颱風季節所帶雨量又減少你又如何面對缺水以及相關的這個配套呢"},{"start":2687.386,"end":2699.197,"text":"部長您請回應一下現在所有民生大家都在關心的確實今年的這個春雨還不是很理想但是跟百年大旱比起來其實都還有這個相關的降雨"},{"start":2702.961,"end":2716.125,"text":"百年大憾的時候如果大家記得那是連雨都不下那第二個呢在枯水期的時候我們都加強這個工業用水的節水都希望他們能夠盡量節水那另外呢在相關的民生跟農業的部分我們也都精準的來調配那當然也希望大家能夠節約用水那台灣枯"},{"start":2726.808,"end":2731.05,"text":"這個枯水期跟風水期它的差距確實都比較多不過對這個全球的氣候變遷的部分所以我們相關的水的韌性計畫不斷的增加這個南北水的調動跟供應那這個就是現在還在持續增加你講到供水的韌性這句話也就是本期最後的具體建議了"},{"start":2751.579,"end":2772.495,"text":"你的供水任性你主責就是在這個水利署跟水公司臺灣的缺水狀態是道屬全我們是全世界可以說排名第10名我記得10來1名18還10幾名的缺水的國家那是因為自來水但是呢"},{"start":2772.935,"end":2788.365,"text":"自來水公司這家公司我不曉得他怎麼因應你講的供水任性他用他自己的現在是破千億的負債他用他破千億的負債為國家貢獻了什麼從92年的24.5%降至12.54%20年之內他降了12.4%的漏水量"},{"start":2799.092,"end":2826.226,"text":"這個的數字跟日本東西來講是有過之而無不及這完全是他破千億的空穴那水既然是日常生活不可或缺的民生必需品本席都認為自來水管線就是基礎建設的一環這句話部長你認不認同自來水管線是基礎是我們自認供水任性的基礎建設的一環你認不認同"},{"start":2827.987,"end":2850.272,"text":"是或不是當然是全臺灣自來水管都是臺水所有臺水公司也是百分百政府持股那行政院就應該重視既然他是自來水的是我們基礎建設為什麼他的維護太壞全部都是由他"},{"start":2851.565,"end":2851.585,"text":"國營事業營運"},{"start":2870.8,"end":2874.582,"text":"一千億其實是相關的這個金流的問題那台水公司的這個管線的汰換那事實上在前瞻計畫也有相關的經費支出部長我直接點給你聽很明顯你不曉得細節所以你就不曉得要怎麼去支持台水了"},{"start":2886.987,"end":2903.512,"text":"這個破千億第一個水電的增加你只要漲水漲電他們也就是用電大戶那再來呢你的管線的維修你即使你的專管有政府支持所有的管線的維修也是他"},{"start":2904.292,"end":2919.818,"text":"第三個落水管的預算也是他第四個因為他已經負債千億了利息也是他連你剛才講的我們的這個如果是因為缺水而導致休耕這樣是誰來補誰來補水利署跟台水補"},{"start":2924.733,"end":2950.218,"text":"所以再來你又限制他什麼限制他說你這個他的水費要不要增加是中央決定所以呢連本席一再的呼籲說你們應該增加這個用水大戶千度以上的用水大戶的級距給台水收針對這個用水你也不同意你反而叫做用作耗水耗水費耗水費誰收啊你旁邊的水利署在收"},{"start":2951.599,"end":2976.619,"text":"我都不曉得臺水已經負債遷移投入所有的公共建設然後呢 剛才講的全部甚至連這個這個修根之後他也要補助水利署也補助那他也要補這叫做什麼話 郵供 那個台語怎麼說 郵供沒什麼啦 怕破怕破沒破就對了 怕破要破問題是怕破 人家都破 人家都是他都破的"},{"start":2980.442,"end":3007.878,"text":"所以我不曉得這個今天主計處上來一下主計處主席有請主計處我們請主計處這個經濟部雖然你有針對本席的意見去跟主計總處說行政院說好那他的虧損我分兩年本席要求用兩年來補結果主計說這虧損如果是這樣的話所有這個各國營事業如果虧損的話那是不是都要行政院來補"},{"start":3009.485,"end":3032.17,"text":"那他的意思是這樣他的回文是這樣嘛那我不曉得來水利那個主計總書這邊您來我已經講得很清楚了包括台水是63年以前他不是全部國營所有他是63到67年如果我印象沒錯這4年他才是把所有各縣市政府的水管"},{"start":3033.07,"end":3049.248,"text":"整個才收歸那時候的這個省政府之後才作為國有所以在63年以前的基礎建設是所有都是地方自己做的品質之差不好意思全部都是要水公司國營事業全部來負擔"},{"start":3050.749,"end":3072.331,"text":"所以它的基礎跟台、跟電、跟油是不一樣的所以我不曉得主計總組來雖然您來的這個關節不高但是既然你來了你就替我這樣的說明本席這樣的一個陳述你認為這個主計處還有什麼理由不補台水"},{"start":3073.464,"end":3090.88,"text":"在他的這個破千億的情況之下你現在又講到我們部長很好他還講很多目標剛才說他還要增加供水韌性全部都台水你自己扶啦除了專管是政府出其他全部都台水自己扶我不曉得這樣公司他要怎麼經營欸來 主計總署"},{"start":3097.419,"end":3114.239,"text":"謝謝委員的質詢,就有關臺水這個部分的話,其實主席總署針對臺水的一些相關可能投資上可能不具效益的一些公共重大公共建設的話,其實主席總署都有做一個政治的一個挹注來協助那個臺水他辦理一些基礎的水域建設"},{"start":3115.182,"end":3137.25,"text":"好 那個您答的跟實際的好像都不太一樣因為我剛剛已經講得很清楚了所有它虧損的狀況包括公共建設的狀況那這個中央除了補專管之外其他為富貸款都是它處理所以所有的全部都是它自己然後呢 所以我在這邊具體要求政府應該由中央政府編列相關的預算給台水"},{"start":3138.27,"end":3148.423,"text":"用這個附屬年的這個專案補助給台水那或者納入第5期也就是明年要審的114年1到8月第5期的前瞻計畫基礎建設部長這可以嗎"},{"start":3151.764,"end":3154.786,"text":"我只是針對它的基礎建設我還沒講到它的虧損的部分、借債的部分謝謝委員支持那經濟部確實會幫台水來爭取相關的公務預算來給它做撥補那我們會提出80億元的相關的撥補經費那當然希望院裡面能夠支持80億太少了"},{"start":3177.017,"end":3184.782,"text":"真的,除非你叫供水韌性這四個字你會講到台電力韌性供水韌性在你經濟部如果你只貶80億的話那你後續所有的台積電現在全台灣都在開花這是好事你的那個耗水量之高啊我都不曉得你的這個供水韌性在哪裡這請你嚴肅的面對,謝謝我們後續檢討,好謝謝"},{"start":3208.206,"end":3209.487,"text":"主席我想請部長我們再請外媒部長"},{"start":3225.899,"end":3252.914,"text":"部長雖然您在520之後不會繼續留任部長的職位也有可能會高升那但是你是蔡政府這8年來任職最長的經濟部長從2020到2024整整4年就算未來繼任的郭志輝也要叫你一聲學姐所以我在這裡呢要請問一下這個學姐部長你敢不敢保證說今年不會有限電危機"},{"start":3254.59,"end":3270.898,"text":"不會,我們一定會把他做好穩定供電的這個工作請您不要忘了我們核三是今年7月即將要開始退役今年的電力系統幾乎都是您準備的核三到底有沒有準備要退役"},{"start":3272.155,"end":3284.154,"text":"河山按照原來的相關的規劃時程跟法規的規定確實到今年的1號季到今年的7月40年期所以是確定一定會"},{"start":3285.943,"end":3301.226,"text":"在目前的規範之下他一定是按照這樣子去走所以部長我另外一個小小的感慨就是說你們不顧民意不顧立法院的要求一意孤行一定要漲電價結果電費漲了現在還要限電拿錢不辦事就是拿錢還限電沒有限電沒有限電我接下來要問的問題就要問你"},{"start":3313.909,"end":3327.973,"text":"希望你不要做虛偽不實的回答4月15號當天下午的6點至7點左右因為大潭8號機明潭456號機同時故障備轉容量只剩下3.2%是否屬實"},{"start":3331.655,"end":3353.964,"text":"這個確實當時是有這樣的情境是啊那這樣子所以4月15號那一天臺電內部到底有沒有接到指令說要為分區限電做好準備這個我沒有聽說這個我沒有聽說那主要是確實是因為地震之後那有的機組當天就故障那有的機組確實是之後你沒有聽說但是臺電的發言人在16號他就說"},{"start":3358.266,"end":3379.475,"text":"他就說絕對沒有討論要分區限電但是呢經過兩天部長現在告訴我說你完全沒有聽說說要分區限電到底是發言人說謊還是沒有如實的報告部長為什麼台電發言人第一時間要對外說謊這難道不用究責嗎"},{"start":3380.956,"end":3385.239,"text":"對不對為什麼這個總經理有沒有說謊報告委員我們在高層開會這是高層指示的嗎我們在開會的時候從來沒有指示下面要做限電的準備這個工作絕對沒有你看沒有做限電準備臺北ADCC基隆ADCC通知一中央CDCC"},{"start":3408.456,"end":3415.701,"text":"完整全文就是說 預計19點開始緊急執行分區輪流停電有沒有這個訊息這是你們內部群組的訊息喔這件事情發生之後我也在看到底為什麼會有這樣子的一個訊息出來是 所以 這非常嚴重以前用二發電不夠 現在用說法發電"},{"start":3435.214,"end":3451.078,"text":"我們的作為是這樣子就是要緊急分區輪流停電那個指令是從我們中央下去的他是說昨晚有收到要準備ADCC代表區域調度中心全台6個CDCC中央調度中心是你總管理處的26樓那部長我要請問一下他們在準備調度什麼是調度晚餐嗎跟委員報告"},{"start":3458.8,"end":3464.222,"text":"我們各個部門都有他自己的權責是不是 台電專屬的電力調度中心他已經在準備要輪流停電了你們對外一直在否認為什麼不面對現實為什麼不誠實的來告訴大家說我們的確是有能源危機呢跟委員報告當天的預估我們的備轉容量率還有6%以上只是在到了5點多的時候我想要問一下部長來部長我問你"},{"start":3486.889,"end":3496.336,"text":"我想要拜託你,你可以幫大家證實一下說到底有沒有這個訊息?到底有沒有這個訊息?就是說這個訊息是不是屬實?如果假設是假的,台電必須站出來辟謠啊怎麼可以放任這種謠言打擊台電的信譽呢?總經理我沒有請你講,我在問部長"},{"start":3511.006,"end":3515.309,"text":"我沒有收到這樣的訊息那我想是不是可以請部長徹查說到底是不是為什麼會有這個訊息呢我會請台電來了解但是我想地震造成的基礎相關的故障我們的台電同仁是用最快的速度來做修復我沒有在究責他們我的意思是說"},{"start":3533.379,"end":3543.586,"text":"這個調度準備不只是一兩個單位這是紙包不住火的去否認這個事實只是降低人民對台電的信任度另外一個證據是台電7點準備要限電第一個出來爆料的是誰你知道嗎是一個綠營的友軍網紅你看"},{"start":3553.21,"end":3571.332,"text":"王信網紅他說可以證實本來7點要限電所以我6點45才緊急呼籲大家要調高溫度關冷氣就差那麼一點點到底他是部長還是你是部長他比你還早知道要限電欸我想對網路上的各項訊息你有沒有什麼話要說"},{"start":3572.653,"end":3591.111,"text":"我想最主要還是以台電的這個相關的規範指令來執行 這個最準確啦我再跟部長講 相關證據真的非常多 台電4月15號當天的備載容量的時間圖顯示6點的時候就是一個低點 你有沒有看到"},{"start":3592.202,"end":3598.948,"text":"你有沒有看到假設這個還不夠明顯我再給你另外一張圖我們沒有說這個有問題那這個就是因為地震造成機組故障那所以為什麼他還要說謊呢為什麼他要說不會分區限電沒有準備要分區限電呢我們沒有說謊總經理是你的發言人說謊我沒有說你說謊"},{"start":3615.282,"end":3625.293,"text":"就是說來繼續看一下這個圖更明顯這個4月15號當天的電壓圖5點第一次微幅降壓有沒有看到"},{"start":3626.26,"end":3630.602,"text":"跟委員報告這就是為了要光電離線做準備在5點47分又大幅的下降這就代表當下供電可能已經出很大的問題了這麼明顯的證據在這麼危急的情況真的沒有要準備分區限電嗎?跟委員報告整個的問題是因為4月3號發生地震之後讓我們的很多的火力發電的機組的鍋爐我們的鍋爐長度裡面一個長度就是500公里的長度"},{"start":3655.034,"end":3655.674,"text":"主席可不可以請他"},{"start":3685.696,"end":3687.783,"text":"對不起你有什麼問題"},{"start":3689.642,"end":3714.407,"text":"我再請問一下部長請問備載容量降到3%就代表臺灣只剩下3%的電力全臺灣只剩下3%那是一線之隔全臺大停電欸到底各個調度中心有準備本來就是天經地義的事情啊這個準標準程序就應該做的事情如果經濟部跟臺電都一再否認那只有兩個可能"},{"start":3715.527,"end":3718.089,"text":"第一就是說謊明明準備要限電卻對外否認第二就是無能電力已經低到只剩3%結果各個調度單位都沒有啟動緊急準備正正意外調整的事故我們台灣人的想法就是趕快來修補"},{"start":3736.34,"end":3739.102,"text":"請問這整個狀況變成是只有說謊或無能之間你要選一個嗎?我只希望說你們要誠實努力來做這個事情就是要誠實我現在就想要知道說是不是你們團隊也跳電了?"},{"start":3758.433,"end":3759.974,"text":"還是你們現在是正在限電我們其實是非常努力來解決相關故障的排除的問題而且呢最後一個問題我問部長四一五限電危機發生之後聽說很多調度中心的值班人員都被查手機"},{"start":3774.02,"end":3790.041,"text":"要查說誰洩漏消息請問部長是不是有這個事情我不瞭解對你不瞭解如果有這種思維他就是典型的解決提出問題的人以為這樣就沒有問題了其實我們真正要檢討的是我們的能源政策啊怎麼會我們"},{"start":3792.544,"end":3812.774,"text":"三年已經補貼了你們四千零一億然後呢還要漲電價然後還要限電現在第一個也沒有限電第二個地震造成的這樣短期故障只剩3%就要全台灣停電了你告訴我不需要限電不要用粉飾太平的方式來補貼你不能想說我們想到的就是趕快來解決這樣的一個故障問題完全不是為了什麼所以部長我相信你"},{"start":3819.577,"end":3829.72,"text":"我相信你說你可能不知道但是呢這麼多的證據告訴你了部長你要徹查呀你要徹查因為本席剛剛所提的問題跟訊息跟圖片如果經濟部查的是屬實的話也請用書面回覆本席沒有問題我們可以跟委員報告謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":3847.13,"end":3861.997,"text":"好,接下來我們請內陸委員請做詢答那我也請行政部門因為是詢答所以呢等委員這個發言需要行政部門回答再回答好嗎?謝謝好,謝謝主席請部長,王部長跟王總經理好,我們請部長跟王總我先問一下啦,部長王總經理是台電的專業經理人現在最了解,我先問王總經理好了啦"},{"start":3876.262,"end":3884.627,"text":"呃 台電有沒有說謊報告委員 台電沒有說謊 台電沒有說謊4月15號有沒有這樣的限電危機呃 跟委員報告"},{"start":3887.028,"end":3909.688,"text":"在4月14號的時候其實我們已經看到一些狀況了那什麼狀況呢就是整個的地震所造成的那個機組的受傷害啊不是馬上發生的是陸陸續續在發生那原因就是因為我們的鍋爐啊很多都是這種所以都在台電的掌控之中嗎那有所謂產生所謂的限電危機或剛剛其他委員講的那些狀況嗎"},{"start":3910.569,"end":3919.136,"text":"那跟委員報告其實他最大的一個問題是在下午5點51分就是4月15號當天5點51分的時候發生了大潭的8號機有110萬千瓦的這麼大的一個量跳脫然後到了6點16分不到30分鐘"},{"start":3930.345,"end":3945.35,"text":"我們的那個在明潭那邊呢有一個巴士也是一座是地震這個是地震內傷內傷的話在那個瞬間他那個巴士故障之後導致我三部機組跳脫這兩個加起來就185萬的機組跳脫總共有6%的被轉容量率是一個這麼大的一個狀況發生這個從來在田安沒發生過我知道總經理那有限電的危機這樣的事情嗎"},{"start":3953.453,"end":3978.52,"text":"到了那個時機點是比較少我們的備轉容量剩下3%還是有3%嗎?還有3%比較緊張一點但是還在3%內是還在可控制的範圍內我覺得未來如果發生像這樣的事情我也建議台電要清楚對外的說明因為現在訊息太多了有時候甚至網路很多有時候會不斷的這樣傳以而傳而出劇流受反而會造成大家的一些困擾然後我建議台電其實可以"},{"start":3978.92,"end":4007.179,"text":"立即清楚的對外做說明所以第一個很清楚沒有說謊的問題第二個其實確實比較緊張那是因為4月3號之後的大陣包括後面的余陣所導致那我必須肯定啦臺電在4月3號那樣的大陣狀況下還維持得相當好其實這真的是不容易的所以我覺得還是給予臺電辛苦同仁要給予基本的肯定那至於產生了所謂這些後面的東西的時候我建議臺電都應該第一時間對外來澄清說明不要讓什麼好像對於發言人怎樣的這樣的傳"},{"start":4008.4,"end":4027.285,"text":"我覺得對於臺電整體上是不公平也是信譽上也是受損的所以我覺得這個也請未來這個王總經理這邊持續來推動讓更多正確的訊息第一時間讓社會知道穩定民心好不好好謝謝委員好部長剛剛其實王總都有講了部長應該都認同王總剛剛講的那個意見是"},{"start":4032.507,"end":4053.585,"text":"我想這個電力是一個相當複雜的問題我想這幾年台灣整個整體的我認為電力策略上大體方向都是正確的不管是從綠能的推動到整個這個儲能等等的甚至於很多穩定的供電系統的穩定等等我們做了很多的努力我也相信這個未來都會有很大的成果"},{"start":4054.666,"end":4072.195,"text":"我想我還是要對部長因為其實部長上任4年嘛上任4年那現在終於這個新的部長上來之後也可以稍微卸下重擔那我還是要肯定部長這4年來其實我們並肩作戰在國家在立法院這邊我看到其實從客觀數據來上這4年來經濟成長率3.5"},{"start":4075.837,"end":4087.873,"text":"是小龍的第一名所以我想不管怎麼樣的整體部長在這塊領導經濟部的團隊我想是值得肯定的那我想問一下部長接下來未來你會不會繼續留在內閣團隊連會大家服務"},{"start":4091.06,"end":4101.605,"text":"謝謝委員那我想經濟部長委員也知道那業務繁多那我每天想只要還在一天我就非常努力把我們經濟部的事情做好部長如果有機會繼續留在內閣團隊內也希望你能夠繼續為國家來服務謝謝委員鼓勵另外我想問一下郭志輝董事長"},{"start":4109.488,"end":4128.681,"text":"由產業界來接任這個確實是相當大的一個挑戰你也知道其實以臺灣的政治環境產業界過來是相當辛苦的是部長怎麼看待這樣的一個郭董事長願意來接任部長這樣的一個我想第一個產業界的人士而且是這樣的一個這麼大的事業公司的負責人願意為國家來承擔這個國家的產業的發展的政策"},{"start":4134.285,"end":4139.286,"text":"我們是非常的感激那他也願意為國家來做奉獻那我想這個我的任務就是趕快用最快的時間跟新任的部長來做你有沒有給新的部長有什麼樣的建議有我其實第一時間就跟新的部長聯繫那我也跟他說經濟部因為業務比較多那希望用比較多的時間來跟他做業務的這個交接我也希望部長"},{"start":4161.491,"end":4185.98,"text":"多多給予協助特別是很多經濟部的業務相當繁重而且相當瑣碎那有些部分像您長期在經濟部你當然就相對熟悉了解但是外面來的一個新的部長要熟悉業務需要點時間更何況以現在的朝野的方式恐怕不會給部長新的部長太多的時間所以我也希望部長大力來協助讓好不容易產業界的人有這樣的信心也有這樣的魄力願意進來國家來幫忙"},{"start":4187.501,"end":4202.206,"text":"我認為應該給予更多的鼓勵跟支持不然未來你看這幾任為什麼經濟部長幾乎都是由內部才有一些機會因為外面光看到立法院這種草野惡鬥這種狀況大概看到都怕了誰會願意放棄到外面的這麼好的一些狀況而願意投身到公眾服務來所以我覺得應該國家應該給予"},{"start":4205.666,"end":4229.195,"text":"多一點正面的鼓勵才會有更多的人才願意進到政府機關來從多面向來貢獻給國家請部長來大力支持另外我也想關心一下今天早上下了雨其實心理上是感覺是比較好的因為最近有點擔心這個水的問題北部的部分現在有幾個水庫的水量不到三成部長擔不擔心接下來的水情的狀況"},{"start":4230.569,"end":4254.413,"text":"現在是確實都還在枯水期但是已經是枯水期的比較末端了那這一段時間我們確實都會比較謹慎來調度跟相關的使用那我想我們每一天都針對這樣的一個枯水期來做所以水情還在掌控之中嘛省慎的之中水利署的同仁也都會在這樣的情況之下會定期來做檢視所以接下來"},{"start":4259.755,"end":4268.294,"text":"接下來開始有可能沒一起甚至於整個訊息的來臨之後其實應該水情會穩定下來我們希望我們希望所以應該是還好署長有沒有什麼看法補充還是"},{"start":4270.273,"end":4270.533,"text":"所以水情上是穩定嗎?"},{"start":4299.711,"end":4325.276,"text":"我們審慎的來因應 審慎因應南部的本委還是要提醒部長跟署長持續甚至於南部現在包括台積電不管是PE、P2、P3都陸續有到高雄來做投資的狀況水還是要持續那我希望未來在再生水廠甚至於海淡廠的部分還是請部長跟署長持續來規劃我覺得南部讓他的水情更加穩定對於整個產業的均衡發展都有相當大的一個注意"},{"start":4326.216,"end":4351.606,"text":"再來我想請教一下前天4月16日高雄沿海如果發生貨櫃車掉落鋼捲掉到地板這個一個都4噸5噸重這也不是只有前天發生其實這幾年來大概發生了這4年來發生了12件甚至有些發生了人命的問題"},{"start":4352.566,"end":4381.265,"text":"我希望部長跟局長能夠特別的去要求因為有些我們現在國企跟會議都在做了我們會加速來完成但是這些人為應該去防止發生的應該要去控制就是說不應該讓他不管是他的整個維護的系統沒做好還是他的車速過快等等我認為這個部分部長跟局長應該要去要求這些業者要更加甚至在出來的時候就要做更多的一些的要求跟把關"},{"start":4382.165,"end":4383.186,"text":"負債比較重大,如果沒有綁好會有意外,我們來加強跟他們做..."},{"start":4398.379,"end":4409.188,"text":"局長一個月內的時間給我一個檢討的報告好不好就怎麼樣的改善措施然後怎麼樣去提醒齁因為這每一個掉落下來運氣不好就是人命沒有錯運氣不好現在隨便壓下來動輒就是車輛受損甚至於動輒連整個所有的路牌整個全部都受損"},{"start":4418.017,"end":4431.496,"text":"安全是第一的如果沒有安全其實沒有其他可言所以我認為這個是產業發展或整個移居城市一個最重要的一環我們希望產業跟人命並重這兩者要去兼顧再來我請教一下"},{"start":4432.777,"end":4460.182,"text":"前鎮園區也謝謝部長大力支持有24億的一個新的一個計畫作但是接下來好幾個都在進行當中不管是B3的基地包括社區土地包括儲運用地的部分我希望部長跟局長持續來加速來推動這個是一個50年前就最好的一個加工出口區的地方那也謝謝部長我們改名了也給予一些更新了以後我希望後面這些的進度都能夠持續來推動"},{"start":4460.942,"end":4464.864,"text":"是 這個一定我也一直督促他們這個相關的這個精華地帶怎麼樣騰龍換鳥讓這個可以不斷的來更新那政府怎麼樣來協助廠商來做更新還有相關的公共建設的部分來支持"},{"start":4478.092,"end":4497.391,"text":"副長這個是不是也一樣請給我匯後給我你們整體的所有的一些進度好不好就是說這邊的更新的進度包括未來的規劃進度我們希望這個50年前臺灣經濟奇蹟的一個重要的起源地在經過整個執政之後我們讓它有一個更好的一個新的一個改變沒錯好不好那請匯後再把這些詳細的資料給我好謝謝"},{"start":4507.2,"end":4507.5,"text":"邱映英議員"},{"start":4529.336,"end":4542.804,"text":"委員長早部長我想今天這個在前幾天新的內閣公佈之後您是第一次到立法院來那心情上感覺怎樣感覺是好像快要畢業了會比較輕鬆一點呢還是"},{"start":4545.927,"end":4555.618,"text":"我看您今天有一點笑容過去其實在這麼龐大的業務壓力底下其實我還是要對經濟部尤其是王部長您領導的經濟部我要給你們一點鼓勵經濟部在這幾年來天災、地震"},{"start":4566.849,"end":4579.234,"text":"包括經濟上的危機處理我覺得王部長您非常的盡心盡力我覺得還是要給您跟您的團隊一些鼓勵那尤其這一次其實我們看到地震之後"},{"start":4581.116,"end":4600.114,"text":"花蓮規模這麼大的地震但是花蓮除了震倒的房屋那一帶以外其實沒有太多的停電那當然這兩天開始會有一些陸續的這些比如說這幾天桃園兩天就跳電了4次我想"},{"start":4602.752,"end":4627.549,"text":"臺電過去在我們在做韌性電網的這一塊前瞻的計畫裡頭去做韌性電網這一塊臺電花了很多的時間立法院也花了很多的時間來監督你們但是我剛剛看了幾位委員的質詢對臺電我們不是只有鼓勵有一些人對你們有很大的苛責但我覺得臺電在每一次"},{"start":4628.72,"end":4652.774,"text":"地震或者是颱風來的時候,台電在修復電力的這一塊所付出的努力,好像很少被肯定。我覺得這裡我真的要肯定台電,尤其你們的整個工程團隊,這次在很短的時間之內修復電力,或者是讓花蓮並沒有引發大停電,這個全世界都認為這是奇蹟。"},{"start":4655.046,"end":4665.064,"text":"可是好像沒有得到任何的掌聲大家一直不斷地罵你然後一直說台灣要限電了台灣要缺電了即使你們要回答要解釋"},{"start":4666.991,"end":4684.373,"text":"委員們還是不讓你們回答齁我覺得這個對你們來講是不公平啦但是不應該的跳電不應該的停電或是機組稅休這個會對住戶造成的影響我認為台電應該還是要能免則免您同意嗎"},{"start":4685.174,"end":4687.015,"text":"謝謝委員那確實在桃園的這幾天的這樣的一個情形是配電系統一個有的是電網有的是相關的設備的故障那這些故障呢那有一些如果很快可以移除"},{"start":4700.719,"end":4707.263,"text":"臺電一定會用最快的速度移除那比較停的時間比較久是因為那個設備或者是那個纜線整個斷掉他需要做一個比較大的工程所以花的時間比較長一點那我想臺電的同仁其實是在修復這個是都沒有日夜沒有分我知道臺電的同仁在修復都是拿命在拼啊"},{"start":4722.791,"end":4742.598,"text":"風在刮,尤其像我們在南部颱風來的時候風在刮大家就一直要求台電要立刻復電那個工人爬到電線桿上面去下著大雨刮著大風所以我覺得在這一方面除了我們的韌性電網這一塊還要持續的加強以外其實我覺得應該給台電一些鼓勵"},{"start":4744.238,"end":4758.874,"text":"接下來我要問了這個大安新的內閣老實講我剛剛對於王部長我是肯定的但我對於未來接任的經濟部長我有期待但是也有擔憂因為他是從業界來他不了解立法院的生態"},{"start":4760.335,"end":4779.886,"text":"在立法院裡頭我們這個臥虎藏龍我只能這樣說立法委員問的問題五花八門能不能接招會不會接招能夠怎麼樣的回答我覺得可能王部長您要花一點時間來跟我們的這個未來的郭智輝郭部長"},{"start":4780.686,"end":4784.347,"text":"以您現在了解的狀態我看伊朗跟以色列的這個衝突擴大"},{"start":4801.432,"end":4816.572,"text":"對於這個荷姆茲海峽的封鎖那這個對於未來或者是短期之內全球的這一些石油或者是天然氣的調度一定會產生一些影響嗎部長能不能"},{"start":4818.294,"end":4832.226,"text":"就您的角度可以說明的就是說我們少了中東地區的這一些進口量是不是我們的調度量缺口包括天然氣或者是石油我們的調度的缺口從哪裡來我們的靈活度夠不夠"},{"start":4835.388,"end":4862.553,"text":"剛委員報告我們從這個伊朗那一天發射攻擊之後我們就臺電中油就緊急成立了這樣的一個戰情中心來瞭解這個第一個情勢那第二個會不會讓這個相關的油價氣價甚至包括煤喔都有大幅的一個上漲所以我們在中油臺電的收集最精準的資料裡面那第一時間也看到"},{"start":4863.073,"end":4865.575,"text":"伊朗就趕快宣布說他就是這一波了那我們也看到國際上非常多的國家特別是從美國為首來怎麼樣控制這個局勢不要再去擴大那從那一天的攻擊到現在其實目前的情況上我相信很多的大國都在"},{"start":4885.129,"end":4888.611,"text":"中間傳說所以相關的油價氣價的部分除了當天有稍微上漲之外那這兩三天都還是情勢上大家都還在控制當中所以經濟部也是跟著國際的腳步有隨時在密切監控這整個局勢的發展這整個戰爭局勢的發展沒錯"},{"start":4905.76,"end":4933.316,"text":"好,如果說是這樣的話我相信這個因為我過去問過你們你們大概現在從中東地區的這個進口量大概已經也低於五成整個靈活的這個調度的靈活性上面或者是對於整個局勢國際局勢的監控上面我想不會因為內閣的交接而有所怠慢所以我還是要期待這個不會,同仁都進進業業把這個事情一定要做好"},{"start":4934.096,"end":4948.949,"text":"部長我接下來要請教您另外一個問題這個是跟我們今天要審查的基金有相關過去這個我們因為在推動新南向政策所以我們有一個這個推廣貿易基金裡面有去編列了"},{"start":4949.469,"end":4949.889,"text":"107年編列10億元"},{"start":4966.463,"end":4989.131,"text":"決算數是零。108年開始到112年也都各編列了5億,決算數也是零。所以今年113年一樣還是編了5億,但我不知道會不會有任何的廠商去做。我想這件事情我還是要請教,雖然很尷尬,你們編列了這樣的錢但是沒有廠商。"},{"start":4990.211,"end":5005.641,"text":"甚至說他應該有可能就是根本不可能有去海外在新南向的地區有去做這樣的公共工程的機會所以你這樣的一個基金還要繼續編嗎?關於委員報告那目前我們已經有一個目標國在洽談這個事情那應該最近應該會有比較這個具體的進程那這個就會趕快來執行"},{"start":5014.386,"end":5035.594,"text":"好,所以你那個113年你覺得應該是會有執行的可能性是會有執行的空間對,對好,OK部長我想還是與您共同勉勵啦謝謝委員謝謝您過去這段時間為台灣的經濟所做的努力那我期待未來我們一起繼續為國家加油謝謝好,接下來我們請張旗開委員請做詢答"},{"start":5063.054,"end":5084.543,"text":"我們再請王部長我聽聽看有笑容啦其實一直都是有笑容問有笑容的部長最近電鍋水都很緊張喔最近會不會用那個大停電或者是限水"},{"start":5085.551,"end":5105.833,"text":"電的部分因為地震所以地震當天就有機組故障那事後這幾天呢因為地震造成的相關的管線破管等等陸續出現那確實這個是事後才發生的這個事情我聽說中情你說內商啦很多人說內商等一下來看看內商的問題現在比較嚴重的我先跟你講一個"},{"start":5109.537,"end":5131.415,"text":"十五那一天就出現北台灣可能要可能會大限電對不對然後那16號桃園地區有近萬戶大停電我告訴你你知道可以嗎?湯不是只有16近萬戶的大停電你知道可以嗎?桃園又有三個地方停電了嗎?我先跟你講一下湯市的"},{"start":5134.465,"end":5146.255,"text":"桃園路今天早上7點14分17戶停電另外的龍潭、中正路跟中興路一帶今天早上7點57分潰線跳脫造成5332戶停電搶修完以後現在還有678戶停電另外桃園區的山林里大平里民有路7點56分4600"},{"start":5163.729,"end":5178.966,"text":"零五副停電,每天要進一萬副,怎麼會這麼嚴重?不只是16號已經停電一次了,大停電一次了,今天可以七點多,又來加起來,會超過一萬副喔"},{"start":5179.716,"end":5191.746,"text":"是 我這樣子 這個是配電的問題啦 就是線路 因為我們線路總共長度大概30幾萬公里啦 30幾萬公里 那其中某些地方偶爾會有一些狀況發生"},{"start":5196.155,"end":5198.277,"text":"大家會擔心嗎?對不對?昨天這樣,今天早上就這樣我想這個可能還是跟大家說明相關的配電系統因為纜線很長然後設備非常多那今天早上確實也有相關的雷雨那這個相關的氣候也確實會讓這樣的一個機組的故障的部分那這個故障"},{"start":5220.918,"end":5230.445,"text":"這個故障有一些其實台電很快就可以把它修復那有一些如果要更換會花多一點點時間來修復那台電其實都用最快的時間來做這個維修的動作 我知道台灣很辛苦 也不將心比心 你們是停電的"},{"start":5238.908,"end":5267.506,"text":"家庭你會怎麼想這個事情所以台電都用最有效率一般的這個家庭而且是太密集了而且現在我們要的不是解釋問題的內閣我們現在是要解釋解釋是要解決嘛但是你要知道問題是什麼問題停電這個頻率看起來是在增加當中而且看起來是有危機為什麼有危機?天氣越來越熱對不對用電的監控期馬上就要到啦夏天馬上就要到啦第二個"},{"start":5268.646,"end":5289.106,"text":"河山廠1號機7月就要除以了對不對河山廠的1號機1號機7月是百分之百分之3.5的這個用電量到期人又變少了對不對第三個就是剛才總會講的你現在還內傷現在餘震跟地震還是還是平傳的啊所以這個都是現在很嚴重的這個危機所以拜託一個最少一個"},{"start":5291.001,"end":5291.441,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5318.071,"end":5340.388,"text":"湯漆湯漆那麼多的工廠那麼多的公司這整個產業發展會受很大影響民眾受到影響更大是來我給你看一下更嚴重的現在我們缺電缺到什麼程度現在都要挖東牆補西牆現在可能不是只有缺電的問題現在可能都還要限水你看一下石門水庫現在水量多少24.5對不對深溫水庫剩下34.5"},{"start":5347.099,"end":5366.391,"text":"我去統計17個月報全台已經有8座的水庫蓄水量是低於3成了結果現在要檢討什麼?第一年不是減水而已喔這已經接近百年枯水期對不對?這樣還要檢討什麼?沒有沒有跟百年枯水期差很多有接近啦兩成多了嘛對不對?沒有沒有差很多兩成多啦那現在今天有一個最新的新聞"},{"start":5368.015,"end":5378.16,"text":"你現在你看看一下看一下你的水位那麼低24.5結果你的發電水力發電的數量你看石門水庫已經降到24.5了結果你水力發電用了多少"},{"start":5379.843,"end":5408.113,"text":"90.44元升溫水庫用了多少98.8元今天甚至更新的消息台電說要叫升溫水庫叫水利署這邊要發電現在水已經在蓋嘛本來就要節省水了對不對結果你現在叫它水利發電水就流失了嘛這個完全不會犧牲水因為它是上游把電發下來下游都存著然後這個存著的水民生要多少、農業要多少再來用"},{"start":5409.453,"end":5421.307,"text":"完全沒有浪費現在除了名壇是有這個上下載序的對不對是你在這個發電的過程裡面本來就會受影響啊所以今天包括今天的消息連水利署你是不是今天最新的消息不是水利署都出來講了沒有我們那個還有下池"},{"start":5424.531,"end":5450.153,"text":"不會,它只是發電放水的時間去搭配相關的尖峰但是呢這個放了水一定是都下面有一個下池那這個池呢再來看什麼時候用水完全不會浪費我們再來看下一張完全不浪費再看下一張,剛才總委說地震造成內傷嘛所以一直在停電、跳電對不對看一下之前我請教過你哪一種電"},{"start":5451.812,"end":5480.095,"text":"最便宜那種光核電現在我們要問另外一個問題你現在預防地震受的影響哪一種電最耐震你看這個圖當花蓮發生大地震的時候那間的氣墊50分所有的供電全部都是往下降的對不對是不是燃煤、氣電工生、民營電廠全部都往下掉有一個是平的什麼地方最穩定的、最耐震的是哪一個"},{"start":5481.926,"end":5501.765,"text":"跟委員報告河山是在屏東是最靠近南邊這次內商很多的包括像剛剛講那個三部基礎75萬都在南投台中就是靠近鎮央比較近反正其實河能也是現在你在設計的時候最注意安全嘛也是最穩定的嘛我們再看一個下一張好不好來 看這個發生311地震的日本"},{"start":5502.586,"end":5523.854,"text":"這幾天已經多天了他們要重新啟動全球最大的核電廠今天本席給部長跟眾議員看這些東西不是說你一定要改變什麼做最大的改變可是你要想一想你最近確實是在缺電隨時可能大限電的這個危機裡面對不對重新思考一下好不好重新思考一下至少今年要七月"},{"start":5524.614,"end":5547.824,"text":"你的河山場的一號機,100度裡面有3.5度是從那邊來的,你如果缺了這個電,你隨時可能會大限電或大停電,好不好?另外回過頭來,我請教博定一下,你已經跟新任的這個部長有通過電話嗎?我們願意祝福啦,願意祝福,祝福你一樣,他至少現在碰到兩個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":5549.686,"end":5574.981,"text":"兩個嚴重的問題一個是觸犯政交法的這個問題第二個商業商業會計法這個問題這個老蔣他目前還沒有上任之前這個是屬於個人公司治理的問題可是政治人物很重要的是什麼政治誠信所以等他上任完之後他當初觸犯了這個政交法觸犯了商業會計法這個重新都會被檢視另外再看下一張"},{"start":5576.735,"end":5605.534,"text":"彭博社這個新聞我看你非常的注意對不對彭博社代表是什麼他的總社在美國的紐約他是全世界最大的財經資訊的提供的地方又是在美國所以他示警是不是代表美國一部分的這個意見他示警的是什麼你為什麼去幫中國大陸的華為晶圓廠的污水處理現在好像變成銀彈風機大家都說誒污水處理廠廢水處理廠是小事果定"},{"start":5607.011,"end":5631.073,"text":"你對晶圓廠的廢水處理廠應該很了解,對不對?是台積電曾經講過喔他們的廢水處理要有38種分流那是很精密的高科技喔不是一般的民生的這個污水處理喔第二個他跟大陸的關係這麼密切新任的這個部長上台之後能夠確保每個商業機密特別跟晶圓跟晶片有關的會不會外洩"},{"start":5632.659,"end":5660.168,"text":"另外是美國的關係我剛特別提是彭博社來示警那我要問你你昨天講了說是不是違反美國的法規還要進一步去諮詢廠商還有了解他的態度你為什麼這樣講昨天你有在煩惱什麼嗎除了有沒有違反自己的法規之外齊凱今天本席很重要再提醒一個點不要把他去處理華為的這個晶圓廠的污水處理當成一般的民生用水民生污水"},{"start":5661.155,"end":5667.017,"text":"他是很高科技的這是一個點第二個你講到美國的法規對不對美國那邊有些擔心嗎應該精準的是這樣講就是說這一個報導之後呢那經濟部也有啟動相關的瞭解跟調查那這個調查結果那確實沒有違反我們任何的法規那這個包括他還有別的廠商的部分呢"},{"start":5684.461,"end":5688.943,"text":"那或者做這個廢水或者說這個相關的這個場務的處理的部分那所以也有請各相關的部會表示意見那目前就是大家都最後的結論就是這個沒有違反任何法規那至於美國的部分因為美國是這個外國直接產品的這個原則那這個相關的規定我們也仔細的檢視了以後那這個跟我們這幾個案子的情形確實"},{"start":5714.213,"end":5724.738,"text":"跟美國的規範也沒有關係所以這一些的案子確定是沒有違反相關的規定一般美中台關係本來就是民間那現在很多人檢討是說"},{"start":5726.755,"end":5737.88,"text":"如果新的這個新的這個要接你位子的經濟部長上來以後他跟中國大陸關係那麼密切特別這一次是跟華為然後晶片本身也是敏感的第一個我想要講的就是說臺灣這個企業界跟中國這邊有關係我覺得只要是正常的關係那這個我們應該大用這樣的來看待因為臺灣跟中國的貿易關係畢竟還是有30、40%那第二個就是說"},{"start":5754.166,"end":5756.947,"text":"他當經濟部長要做好相關的這個保密的規定或者跟原來的企業有非常好的這個切割我想這個經濟部新的經濟部長應該都會做好這些事情他在光電跟那邊有那麼多的這個投資利益迴避也是個大的問題"},{"start":5772.233,"end":5797.009,"text":"你跟他聯絡所以這段時間沒有錯確實很多地方你要提醒他他現在是公司治理的問題而已以後就不是囉你上台以後包括政治誠信的問題包括以前反走過必留下痕跡每一樣都是要被檢視的上台才是檢視的開始你要提醒他第二個包括美國這個態度可能要進一步更進一步去了解好不好那另外我最後還是要拉回來雖然民眾同關現在是電的問題我剛才已經跟你講了"},{"start":5798.47,"end":5812.426,"text":"一個早上通路上的地方又跳電跟停電了不要再發生這個我們會做好服務是一定現在民眾最關心的就是真的是用電的這個問題了不要再發生了至少在你下台之前好不好是我們會努力是謝謝"},{"start":5819.178,"end":5831.383,"text":"也不是在他下臺之前應該是沒此事好對謝謝好我們接下來請鄭正前委員請做詢答主席好我想請王美華部長我們再請王部長"},{"start":5850.151,"end":5855.844,"text":"部長因為新內閣的金獎人選已經出來了所以我要特別珍惜跟你每一次對話的機會"},{"start":5858.477,"end":5879.317,"text":"因為那個電的問題坦白說也是我們在這段時間以來一直在跟你對話的一個很重要的一個部分那415的時候一個大那個跳機的一個情況差點變成一個大跳電大家都非常的緊繃那剛剛也很多委員也都特別提到那4月16號桃園這邊14月17號都持續"},{"start":5883.161,"end":5895.88,"text":"包括桃園、中壢、大園、平鎮這邊都持續一直有一個停電的一個情況所以電的問題肯定是非常重要的那我想特別問一下因為4月15號這個跳機的事件之後據說"},{"start":5899.945,"end":5918.641,"text":"據說臺電現在正在查當天的值班人員到底誰把那個緊急可能要北區要規劃停電這樣的訊息一個揭露然後要查值班人員的手機是不是有這樣的事情我沒有聽說"},{"start":5920.639,"end":5940.901,"text":"報告委員沒有聽說這件事情沒有聽說這件事情我想特別問一下因為大家都關心電的使用沒有缺電現在大概什麼都不行所以電肯定非常重要所以我們提這些問題也是希望能夠解決電的問題包括我們在提整個能源政策整個能源"},{"start":5941.902,"end":5954.046,"text":"發電的配比等等的問題對於整個資訊的提供肯定是重要的那我這邊的時候看到了在4月15號之後我們的官網臺電官網當中的時候提到我們的備載容量還是16.08%非常的高讓大家覺得非常的滿意當然我也特別講因為"},{"start":5964.36,"end":5985.807,"text":"美花部長可能也很服氣很大因為15號沒有真的發生那個停電的一個情況可是問題是當天的時候呢中央電台中廣這邊他就直接表示我們的備載容量一度低到只有剩2.8%這是什麼情況可不可以請總經理這邊做個說明向委員報告"},{"start":5988.988,"end":6015.113,"text":"其實到了15號當天早上我們8點我們就開會了那時候開會主要是因為在前一天星期天發生了這個另外一件就是臺中的7號機也破管也破管那就是內傷剛剛講內傷不會馬上發生在那時候發生在禮拜天發生然後和平1號機就是靠近央央旁邊也都還是延遲修復因為確實傷得太嚴重"},{"start":6015.493,"end":6031.211,"text":"因為這個部分其實我們大概知道可是我特別要提到的一個情況是因為我們4月15號的時候本來想要透過民壇就是抽蓄水利發電去救急結果後來發現民壇這邊也出問題然後我看到一個很大的訊息是"},{"start":6032.112,"end":6053.538,"text":"所有的用電大廠的柴油發電機都被要求啟動包括台積電他們本身有36萬千瓦的柴油發電機也在當晚的時候都投入於發電的情況所以顯然現在整個台灣的電的情況其實是有問題的那我在想說針對415之後我相信你們之後會有個具體的報告"},{"start":6054.178,"end":6079.788,"text":"在跟本辦公室做一個報告我想接下來在珍惜跟美發部長對話的一個時間我想問他的是因為在我們今天在討論所有的基金的一個預算當中的時候我們看到了核能發電的後端營運基金這邊會出現一個114年可能台電就不會再提撥目前我看到所有的這個"},{"start":6081.881,"end":6102.675,"text":"預算書當中的時候就是台電目前每年大概提撥216.69億大概是這個數字那114年之後就沒有了那我想問一下以目前整個這個核厚的一個基金的情況呢我看它現在的整個"},{"start":6107.138,"end":6128.235,"text":"資產在今年底的一個預計數大概會到4555億可是它整個錢放貸出去的金額大概也高達了我查到今年3月底大概有4459億大概錢全部都出去大概這個核耗的一個基金同時又"},{"start":6129.471,"end":6152.575,"text":"放貸給了台電然後又買了國庫的公債所以整個下來之後呢我們就發現這個基金很好用這個提撥之後的時候錢又繼續被台電用回去然後再買了國庫的狀態那我想說針對這個部分在114年之後就沒有繼續提撥那我們後續這個基金要如何去運作"},{"start":6155.928,"end":6176.782,"text":"各位委員報告大概目前來講我們整個後端基金因為依照109年它總共提撥總數要到4786億所以依照規定就是說我必須在114年也就是2025前必須要提足所以剛剛委員有提到說我每年要提撥216億就是為了要把這個補足"},{"start":6181.64,"end":6198.775,"text":"所以現在補得足嗎?補得足那所以114年之後就沒有每年再提補216億嘛 對不對但是我們還是會每5年檢討一次所以它是一個滾動檢討在這個檢討的過程當中有沒有可能同時去檢討整個核電的一個政策如果延逸之後那就會繼續提補這個基金就會繼續累積"},{"start":6201.938,"end":6202.479,"text":"針對這個部分的時候我們希望好好來做一個檢討一下"},{"start":6220.059,"end":6232.029,"text":"針對整個核能那個政策是不是研議的時候我希望美華部長其實在您交棒之前的時候也能夠給後續的新的經長有一些比較更具體的建議我當然知道這是"},{"start":6232.875,"end":6232.995,"text":"有關於"},{"start":6250.222,"end":6275.385,"text":"推貿基金的部分推貿基金的部分那我們看到了一個推貿基金裡面有一個捐助金融機構辦理海外公共工程貸款利息的一個補助計畫那麼這個部分呢從107年到今年今年也是預算也是預計5億可是每一年的那個執行數都是零"},{"start":6276.606,"end":6302.152,"text":"就表示我們在這個部分的時候呢做得很失敗是不是表示我們整個新南向政策其實是有問題是需要再做進一步檢討的可不可以請部長做一個簡單的說明是那這個部分呢我們確實希望能夠用這個所謂的ODA的方式呢來跟相關的國家來做合作那今年度呢我們已經有一個目標國而且進展比較具體"},{"start":6303.052,"end":6331.772,"text":"所以今年度的這個案子應該是會成行所以說今年從107年到112年都是資訊數都是零你就今年不會是零你的意思是這樣子對OK那我想說之後的時候再到本辦來做一個細部的報告那本席也希望說對於整個新南向政策當中的目前執行的狀態還有後續新的經常來是不是繼續往下推我們也希望針對這部分做一個進一步的了解是"},{"start":6332.492,"end":6353.89,"text":"好 那最後一個部分我要針對目前整個那個水資源作業基金的部分因為水資源作業基金裡面的時候它針對觀光業務的部分有管了兩個水庫一個是石門水庫一個是曾文水庫然後呢它的整個的一個收支的狀況從109年虧損3700多萬一直到"},{"start":6359.714,"end":6384.955,"text":"今年預計會虧損到5500萬就整個情況每況愈下有沒有什麼樣的解決的方法是謝謝委員指導那這幾年因為我們大力的在做一些庫區的工程當然有一些影響觀光但至於委員你說到的解決的方法第一個是我們積極跟地方政府合作然後另外的一個部分的話是對於民眾"},{"start":6386.516,"end":6414.656,"text":"可能會去入園或是進到水庫的一個狀況我舉一個例子徵文水庫在過去的一段時間它滿庫的那每一天的這個入園人數就會很多蘇長這個就是我接下來要問的問題因為以我看的目前所有的水庫當中的主管單位非常的多樣有經濟部水利署管的就你這邊管的有台水管的有台電管的有台糖管的還有"},{"start":6416.597,"end":6437.33,"text":"農業部、農學署管的有地方這麼管的非常非常的多光是經濟部主管下來的有58個水庫這58個水庫每個管理的方式都不同都不同比方說我們在日月潭這邊的時候你要到日月潭去民眾要去要先向交通部、公安局這邊申請再跟台電申請什麼水庫這邊要跟"},{"start":6440.732,"end":6465.493,"text":"什麼時候管理中心申請?民眾水庫要跟水利署這邊沒有辦法申請等等都不一樣可是我要特別講的狀態就是因為108年行政院這邊有提出一個開放水域這樣子的一個政策就像我們開放山林一樣讓民眾能夠去享受山林開放水域也希望說讓民眾能夠去享受台灣很豐富的一個水資源可是目前來看的時候呢"},{"start":6465.973,"end":6482.126,"text":"就是每個單位都非常的管理顯然是沒有統一一致的所以本席希望經濟部至少在經濟部所屬的水庫的主管機關能夠針對非營利的個人或團體從事無污染的水域活動的時候呢"},{"start":6482.987,"end":6506.563,"text":"希望能夠採取更開放的一個心態這樣才能夠有助於民眾親近水域發展水庫的水域尤其功能那麼也能夠增加水庫的一個收費那因為在前兩年的時候其實也有民團直接發起了一個公共政策平台希望能夠開放水域可是後來呢執行的狀態是怎麼樣可不可以簡單回應一下"},{"start":6507.844,"end":6522.213,"text":"謝謝委員指導我們非常同意委員所說的這個原則事實上我們對於水庫的管理經濟部有同一個法規蓄水換為使用管理辦法那剛剛委員所這個表上面畫紅線的部分都是在這個法規裡面"},{"start":6523.474,"end":6539.913,"text":"當民眾或是團體有需要的話都是劃紅線的部分是水庫管理單位跟水庫管理單位申請所以這個申請的窗口會一致那各個水庫因為它的效能不一樣所以它的申請的對象會不一樣那目前為止的話我們不然是對於水庫周邊"},{"start":6541.554,"end":6556.734,"text":"的觀光或是有一些辦活動,像新竹寶二水庫也有辦過所謂慢跑活動。處長理解,可是像那個像那個我們新竹縣這邊的鵝鳴湖這邊的時候,他們現在新竹縣就表示說回歸那個整個"},{"start":6557.875,"end":6558.336,"text":"新竹缺水缺水的狀態之前4月15號的時候"},{"start":6576.488,"end":6602.086,"text":"石門水庫這邊去表示說我們有一個石門水庫到新竹這邊的一個供水的計畫預計一天有30萬噸那目前整個石門水庫本身的水儲量也很少那新竹這邊寶山水庫、寶二水庫的水也都很少那我們很擔心整個科學園區這邊又大陣又開始非常的焦慮缺水的問題有沒有一個簡單的處理方式部長可以簡單回應一下"},{"start":6602.506,"end":6605.888,"text":"其實我們除了這個桃園到新竹之外我們還會再有另外一個管線從台北這個南世溪這邊再增加相關的水源每天可以供應桃園那這樣的話才可以從北一直再往南收所以從台北這個增加的這一條水管"},{"start":6622.317,"end":6649.952,"text":"很重要才可以讓桃園再繼續往哪來供應新竹因為我昨天看到一個新的新聞它是說原本的時候預計石門水庫每天可以支運新竹這邊的水本來是10萬噸後來現在變成5萬噸那我昨天聽到說可能因為桃園本身也在缺水可能就沒有辦法再支應了那我們希望針對這個水跟電的問題經濟部這邊能夠多花一些心思然後做更好的一個交棒是應該的是"},{"start":6651.573,"end":6651.773,"text":"李玉琳委員"},{"start":6676.774,"end":6694.854,"text":"副部長辛苦了停電、跳電、沒電、缺電、限電這都是重要的問題所以在部長您在經濟部長位置上你也努力的不讓他停電你也說沒有缺電但是就是在停電沒電"},{"start":6696.536,"end":6710.049,"text":"在花蓮的地震之後的話很多機組受損那在4月15號開始我們就平臨的全台就會有限定的危機馬上4月16號桃園就三度停電"},{"start":6711.343,"end":6732.117,"text":"的這個情形發生16000多戶停電你說是因為這個電纜線的這個受損的情形昨天晚上平鎮龍台又停電3000多戶你說是變電所的這個潰線跳脫都有問題那我們也給你的經費"},{"start":6733.8,"end":6755.654,"text":"五千六百多億要讓你再把這個電纜電網整個強韌起來這十年的計畫但是我們看到的是每一年這個停電輸電的問題發生更加的嚴重從2020年一直到去年2023年是越來越多七十幾次到去年106次沒有改善"},{"start":6759.167,"end":6759.367,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":6782.82,"end":6802.154,"text":"輸電級的那個線路設計的規劃方式跟配電級接到家裡的那個電是不一樣的輸電級我們都會考慮到它的韌性所以它都有所謂的N-1這種概念什麼叫N-1就是我有一條故障的時候呢不會影響到民生用電可是你超載的時候就會跳脫就會跳電嘛你超載的問題都沒有解決啊我們線路不會讓它超載我們設計的時候就已經考慮到如果說不夠那全台你統計的就五條路線在超載光五條路線桃園就佔了兩條路線啊"},{"start":6812.022,"end":6820.807,"text":"那個超載是在有一條故障的時候才會超載如果是兩條都沒有問題是不會超載是這個意思所以對於有超載的潛在的這種地方我們就會在源頭規劃設計新的路線來做這樣子那現在桃園有兩條路線那你要規劃嗎"},{"start":6827.791,"end":6843.3,"text":"主要是因為桃園... 那怎麼樣是全面去檢修來解決這超載的問題我們現在就是遇到超載的路線之前幾年就開始去做規劃但是在施工的時候有時候會遇到抗爭沒有辦法架鐵塔所以就導致這個問題部長 因為每次停電 桃園就先停電了"},{"start":6844.662,"end":6862.658,"text":"所以桃園這個問題你們要整個全面去整修這個問題尤其是我們桃園是工業用電的大戶你們都要有所感才對跟委員報告您這邊看到的這個圖是輸電的那這三天停電的都是配電的就是那種小電送到家裡這種小電所以你看"},{"start":6863.399,"end":6877.046,"text":"在你整個和平電廠發生問題之後臺中的電廠也發生問題最重要是觀音的大潭電廠也跳機也有問題和平還有明潭通通有問題所以都在我們桃園這個地區的輸電這個電網、電纜還有潰線整個的問題"},{"start":6882.609,"end":6899.827,"text":"請給我們一個整個完整的修復規規電廠的部分比較是地震造成的但是大潭的話是因為不是不是輸電或配電的配電就是小電送到家裡這部分比較不會是地震影響"},{"start":6902.169,"end":6907.191,"text":"蘇電會受到地震影響最嚴重的是電廠因為電廠裡面的設備一搖的話鍋爐的管線長度就500公里一個鍋爐就500公里這麼長所以只要一搖晃就有可能受傷害所以在這個狀況之下它的機率比較高"},{"start":6917.659,"end":6940.171,"text":"不管是這個輸電、配電我們4月份就開始就漲電價了漲電價了讓你漲了那你至少要讓我們人民穩定能夠供電讓我們使用吧這是你們的職責對不對是所以至於長久的問題你們要好好的解決這個我們提了再提了所以也要拜託你們啦是那接下來本席想問的就是說因為地震的問題"},{"start":6941.272,"end":6946.699,"text":"我們在1999年之前的話我們對發電廠的地震的那個耐震程度是五級對不對後來1999年之後的話是六級那現在花蓮這個地震是7.2級那未來如果有更大的地震我們那個耐震能夠承受嗎"},{"start":6963.118,"end":6980.238,"text":"請你看到這張圖這張圖就是鍋爐裡面那個管線密密麻麻的那如果說我要讓他地震的層級要再更拉高的話他所有的扣件他必須要更強固那更強固的話他會讓我的那個發電的效率會變差所以我們就必須要做個權衡"},{"start":6981.932,"end":7006.9,"text":"我們通常在大修的時候呢基礎大修的時候鍋爐大修的時候會把很多的管所以現在耐震級數到幾級可以到幾級新的1999年之後是6級6級那現在地震7.2級7.2級但是它不是正央它比較遠所以慢慢的未來更大未來它的正央在哪裡不知道所以我們是不是要再加強這個我們在未來設計新的電廠會考慮"},{"start":7008.325,"end":7011.427,"text":"一定要考慮,因為已經到7.2級了,是不是?"},{"start":7011.427,"end":7016.671,"text":"是所以這個是要衛生某種安全、公安的問題你們一定要考量進去好不好?"},{"start":7016.671,"end":7028.279,"text":"是那接下來想請問的就是現在很多國營事業針對勞工的問題都有說要減班尤其是那個我們在這個工作"},{"start":7035.356,"end":7060.973,"text":"在我們的《性平工作法》裡面的第19條在府役未滿3歲子女可以向雇主減工一小時中華電信已經開始了提高在6歲以下的小孩童人可以每日減工一小時那我請問部長那我們現在國營司令有沒有要配合同步來進行"},{"start":7062.592,"end":7072.724,"text":"根文報告事實上我在去年前年我其實就有一個措施對就是他可以彈性的上下班就是只要有這個家裡有這個0到6歲小孩的就可以彈性上下班具體的一個方案出來可以公佈他們的這可以怎麼去申請有有其實這個之前我們就有相關的規範"},{"start":7082.495,"end":7098.604,"text":"那現在是經濟部有沒有在做更多的一個部分那我們也會請我們的人事來做相關的檢討所以部長是支持這個方法我個人是非常支持因為6歲以下孩子還是要接受照顧沒錯我們讓年輕的爸爸媽媽覺得我一方面又可以上班可以增加生養是"},{"start":7109.309,"end":7121.954,"text":"請問部長我們禮拜二的時候禮拜一的時候有去那個石門水庫我們看了那個情形除了說我們有供水到新竹那最重要我前一個會刊也是有到這個大"},{"start":7123.715,"end":7128.117,"text":"大苛凱去看我們清淤泥的問題那這個大苛凱這個清淤泥也就是我們之前阿姆平這個清淤是不是走過清淤的這個子計畫在這個預算上面的話我們的編列都有進來但是我們發現了一個問題就是清淤泥的時候"},{"start":7139.181,"end":7158.199,"text":"有一個廢棄物廢棄物的這個東西所以我們工程費有增加那不足的經費大概有4.5億那我們那個賴署長也是有一起去那看到這個情形我們也希望說我們可以如期如質的來完工可以把在中長期的這個計畫裡面把這個不足的經費把它補足進去好不好"},{"start":7159.453,"end":7186.769,"text":"是委員這個部分我們同年已經在想辦法看未來怎麼跟市政府來合作了因為經費畢竟是有限的對因為清運是很重要的你的經費到位的話他才可以如期來完工讓我們什麼水庫的蓄水量才能夠增加好不好好謝謝好謝謝來敬禮謝謝好接下來我們請鄭天才委員請做詢答"},{"start":7203.232,"end":7229.503,"text":"主席、各位委員、有請部長。我們再請王部長。還有水利署署長。好,蔡市長。好,我也好。部長辛苦了。是。這個辛苦很多年了。不會,應該的。覺得在這個位置在這一段時間為國家做這些事情非常有意義。非常謝謝你。這個自然水法第12條之2。第12之2條。"},{"start":7233.77,"end":7255.165,"text":"這個第三項裡面特別提到這個水源保育與回饋費得納入這個基金管理然後專攻水質水量保護區內辦理水資源保育與環境生態保育基礎設施基民公共福利回饋及受限土地補償之用"},{"start":7256.397,"end":7283.133,"text":"然後這個第三款也提到發放因水質水量保護期之化設土地受限制使用之土地所有前人或相關前一人補償事項還有原住民族第7租稅這個補助事項第12至2條第4項也特別提到補償對象這個相關的這些發放標準還要由言明會跟"},{"start":7283.946,"end":7308.383,"text":"由經濟部跟聯盟會共同定的,都定了,這個標準也都定了。《世大學法》第12條第5項,自用於第3項第1款至第5款,但延續民主相應從優考量。這個實施很多年了,實施很多年了。現在就是署長,"},{"start":7310.132,"end":7329.092,"text":"請問署長,這個實施很多年了,經費基金也都有編列,那你們在執行上,往年幾月份會撥到地方政府?如果要撥到地方政府的經費?"},{"start":7330.913,"end":7356.746,"text":"這個部分大概是第一季然後有些單位有的單位他會比較晚送那可能是第二季第一季是什麼時候?幾月到幾月?一到三月左右一到三月那基本上針對這個問題我們也想出解決方法第一個是說事實上每年的這個用度大部分都是如常的那我們希望說他前一年"},{"start":7358.506,"end":7377.681,"text":"前一年也許10月就先送過來我們就預審所以可以更快一點也許在第一季的前一兩個月就可以處理像今年的話我們也是這樣子來處理基本上在3月的部分我們針對全國水質水量保護區的部分都已經核定了"},{"start":7380.609,"end":7401.555,"text":"是不是請署長會後把那個花蓮縣跟台東縣的部分提供給本席沒有問題也許你們的同仁的作業有點說不定有漏掉的部分尤其是花蓮縣跟台東縣查一下好謝謝這個部分"},{"start":7406.274,"end":7435.687,"text":"上次有跟這個部長以前我都是質詢署長那上一次有特別質詢這個部長因為部長是寫法例的這個而且這方面的權益應該要以保障內政部修訂了這個土地法第14條第一項各款規定不得私有土地的劃定原則這裡面我們就談到這個原住民申請原住民保留地"},{"start":7437.335,"end":7465.009,"text":"以奉合定：誰奉合定：是行政院是行政院合定為徵兵保留地這第一個合定之後嚴明會地方政府就把它設定耕作錢、地上錢或農業錢所以兩個條件部長還有署長他第一個行政已經合定了我現在談的有幾筆土地"},{"start":7467.412,"end":7487.381,"text":"行政院已經合併徵花邊沿珠穎堡的地他那個過程很長是從鄉鎮公所一直到縣市政府到中央行政合併然後合併之後人民會、鄉鎮市公所再把他設定耕作錢、地上錢或農業錢"},{"start":7489.005,"end":7505.331,"text":"然後就可以應排除劃入不得私有土地的範圍這是內政部所訂的一個規定所以本席這個老案子吉安鄉海濱段678-1、678-2、679及680-1這幾筆土地經濟部水利署並沒有依水利法83條公告為不得私有的氣塊然後這個"},{"start":7519.537,"end":7546.205,"text":"我剛講了這幾筆土地這幾筆土地都是行政院已經核定的而且已經設定跟做前所以這樣的要請這個部長這個請署長這邊能夠把他能夠把他這個趕快就同意這個因為他就照"},{"start":7547.318,"end":7548.785,"text":"依法來處理,可以嗎?副總。"},{"start":7550.388,"end":7551.169,"text":"秀明先生"},{"start":7581.911,"end":7599.819,"text":"這個比較特別那至於說像秀姑蘭溪或是其他的溪的部分的話?署長你回去查整個那個區塊如果沒有一筆私有土地我就認了非常多的私有土地都在那邊喔"},{"start":7606.901,"end":7623.474,"text":"土地所有權給他一樣限制使用,我們絕對是依法限制使用,好不好?那相關單位假如說是來文,那話我們會依法,然後依照程序來做回應我的意思說你先去查,到底這個這幾筆土地的桌邊那個7塊"},{"start":7625.964,"end":7652.784,"text":"整個7塊到底有多少事由土地這很容易查吧?對,沒有問題就麻煩這個署長部長這個會後請署長依法行政這是法律這符合法律好不好?是最後還有時間還有部長跟署長先回座然後台電副總經理"},{"start":7662.821,"end":7679.345,"text":"這個核能發電後端營運基金這個你們編列的這個我就覺得說是需要再考量當然有的已經執行了當然不得不執行像這個蘭嶼第7基民生活環境與飲食習慣調查"},{"start":7681.958,"end":7702.184,"text":"這個它的必要性我是質疑啦不然你把那個到底當初調查的目的是什麼提供給本席另外就是這個推展費用這個外界先導地方設新廢棄物處理及儲存業務這些大家都了解啦"},{"start":7703.864,"end":7728.049,"text":"這個已經幾十年了要花這些錢還不如把這些錢直接給我們的蘭嶼的鄉親做這些先導的費用然後這裡你看看這個木林木林跟公益支出也提供去年的執行情形好不好是 謝謝"},{"start":7729.344,"end":7751.542,"text":"我們要去檢視到底是不是確實對於蘭嶼的鄉親有幫助另外這個核能發電後端營運基金這個部分這個部分這個因為現在很多都要除役也沒有核四、核一、核二、核三"},{"start":7755.011,"end":7755.031,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":7789.809,"end":7810.886,"text":"請楊純英召委質詢謝謝主席 本席想邀請部長部長好好 委員好 部長您辛苦了部長的一職是被公認最難坐穩的位置"},{"start":7812.834,"end":7831.551,"text":"部長你已經創下了歷史紀錄也就是在整個體系當中經濟首長的紀錄你是小英政府任職最久的經濟部長部長你認為你在任內你最滿意的政策是什麼你有沒有覺得有什麼遺珠之憾還沒做到的"},{"start":7832.723,"end":7839.228,"text":"我想我擔任這個期間很長那我非常珍惜跟同仁一起努力打拼然後讓臺灣的經濟讓臺灣的各項的發展都往正面的走那我有非常多不是只有單一、滿一的等等但是很多經濟部委員也非常清楚經濟部的業務持續都有還有非常多優先的業務要去推動所以"},{"start":7862.005,"end":7863.347,"text":"有沒有你認為你覺得你最有榮耀的是什麼事你推動的"},{"start":7875.538,"end":7898.019,"text":"我想我最有榮耀其實是跟同仁的共識大家形成一個非常好的team然後用非常快速的時間不管是來解決問題你所說的說明是跟同學的這個跟同仁的互動那在你整個業務的推廣方面政策你認為有哪一項是你覺得最覺得是最成功最有榮耀的"},{"start":7899.14,"end":7911.363,"text":"就是因為有這樣的跟同仁的合作那包括克服了百年大旱那包括雖然我們電力有出了一些問題但是因為有這樣的問題有這樣的挑戰我們其實是做了更好的一個安排不管是在各式各樣的電力的供給跟韌性的部分那包括臺灣的整個經濟的發展讓全世界看到臺灣這個重要性"},{"start":7926.267,"end":7950.376,"text":"你提出了抗百年大旱這個的確是一個很大的挑戰所以一開頭我說這是最難坐穩的位置那你能夠做了這4年多也不簡單所以本席要請問你對於預計新接任的準經濟部長你的看法呢?"},{"start":7951.494,"end":7958.516,"text":"我們非常非常感佩企業界願意來做相關內閣的隔遠對國家的經濟大政方針繼續再往前走畢竟從業界來有他的高度跟他的事業你要不要給他什麼的建議建議的部分我想大家對台灣的整個經濟的發展都有很有期待"},{"start":7976.582,"end":7978.685,"text":"你還在敘述情緒的話語所以本席跟你分享因為據聞他是最懂半導體這個產業的部長"},{"start":7997.366,"end":8022.295,"text":"據聞如果他接了應該是如此但是本席希望你告訴他我國的中小企業本席一直一直一直跟你討論這一項我國的中小企業將近有160萬家占所有企業99%人口勞動人口占了920萬人所以在這樣的情況之下他也占了我們就業人口即將八成"},{"start":8023.015,"end":8027.857,"text":"所以中藻企業一直是臺灣的磐石它也為了臺灣呢創造了四小龍的一個光榮的一個龍頭同時它也是定定的我們臺灣民生安定最重要的骨幹"},{"start":8038.9,"end":8067.799,"text":"同時他也充滿了活力彈性他也靈活的創新你同意這樣的論點嗎我完全同意完全同意所以他也製造了很多我們的隱形冠軍在全世界發揚光大對不對是的是所以你要不要告訴他不只半導體我們的中小企業要好好的照顧對不對一定要告訴他你要你這個學姊要告訴他接下來我也請台電總經理一起上來"},{"start":8069.601,"end":8072.687,"text":"限電為期接著桃園的萬戶停電電力的偵測要不要檢討請問部長我"},{"start":8079.184,"end":8080.484,"text":"16號本席辦公室中午的時間向台電要索取資料"},{"start":8103.431,"end":8116.29,"text":"說15號的狀態到底是怎麼回事當天晚上從中午的時間到當天晚上10點半才獲得回顧這樣子的效率可以嗎要不要檢討"},{"start":8118.291,"end":8127.776,"text":"謝謝委員我想臺電的同仁因為15號16號都在緊急處理相關的這個電力的問題部長不要再情緒性的發言我們針對問題大家一起要努力臺電的總經理在這裡這也是我最敬佩的這個領袖那我要告訴你"},{"start":8140.322,"end":8161.447,"text":"15號發生事情16號中午我們請問到16號的晚上10點半才獲得回應為什麼會如此來接下來本席要請教那麼台電你是否在15號有備妥限電停電的計畫因為你只告訴我們部長你聽他告訴我們說他在會議中沒討論所以等於是沒有正面的回覆會議中沒討論接下來本席要請問"},{"start":8170.748,"end":8194.848,"text":"沒關係你不回答也沒關係16號不回答也沒關係本席說要在這邊提問真正的答案到底15號總經理你們有沒有被託有沒有通知有沒有討論到要限電跟停電的這個報告因為據媒體所說你們已經通知台電向各區處喔通知要輪停準備"},{"start":8195.789,"end":8218.615,"text":"有沒有再回事 請說明好 跟委員報告我們通常在每一天的期前12小時或24小時會預估接下來的備轉容量率那麼到了中午的時候到了15號中午的時候我們的備轉容量率還是超過6%以上那以這麼大的備轉容量率其實我們不可能在那個時候就是說所以你們在會議中你15號整天的會議沒有討論嗎沒有討論我們要理清楚沒有討論都沒有討論"},{"start":8225.618,"end":8226.558,"text":"15日晚上出現的台電四部機跳機"},{"start":8251.141,"end":8274.357,"text":"全台備轉容量首度降到3%以下 嚇到我在台中我很緊張我們的中國要怎麼樣支應好接下來16號就發生了桃園的這樣的現象所以距離我們供電穩定是不是應該有很大的空間我們這樣看在4月15號的中午的時候"},{"start":8276.139,"end":8285.603,"text":"至少還有6% 超過9% 為什麼?因為反習已經在跟你講到15號晚上如何了啦不要再去逃脫那些問題來接下來我們15日你台電就已經啟動了需電競價緊急機組的臭緊急調度"},{"start":8295.246,"end":8311.93,"text":"機制包括你請求台電、台積電、用電大幕的發電也啟動了核二核三廠以及我台中渦輪柴油發電都發電了水力發電來核來渡過這一次的難關是不是如此"},{"start":8312.731,"end":8317.754,"text":"那些基礎 有那些事實 但是這些都是我備轉容量的一部分對 你要給社會當中知道 當你發生問題的時候 你有什麼辦法嘛就不用怕嘛 你要告訴民眾清楚啊 不然人家問你不講嘛 對不對你不講我們都會知道 所以這些剛剛本席所說的都是你在籌電的這個項目嘛 都已經執行嘛 對不對"},{"start":8342.731,"end":8360.759,"text":"你既然有努力做你為什麼不讓社會大眾瞭解呢?知道你們的辛苦呢?來接續本席要請教這一次要用電大戶來支援發電的狀況那你這一次的成本又要花了多少?有的大概8塊錢有的是比較貴的是10塊錢有12塊嗎?"},{"start":8363.666,"end":8386.21,"text":"因為你們還有一個彈性兩層那個就12塊有沒有那是臨時吊他起來有沒有有有有這一次有用到12塊嘛對不對對這都有簽約的就會跟他簽約你不用怕我們要了解事實所以你有用到12塊的嘛對不對是的所以這一次光光這一次你告訴部長這一次你的成本還要花多少"},{"start":8388.013,"end":8403.891,"text":"我們還沒有算啦我們這個等算出來再來回報部長所以本席第一個就是提問我們有討論的空間台電很辛苦全力支持台電但是你們要怎麼樣供電穩定你們必須要去檢討你不告訴我們方法我們要給你看答案"},{"start":8410.031,"end":8421.714,"text":"就這一次你度過難關你買到12塊你要花了多少成本真的這一次因為地震120萬千瓦的機組沒有修復大潭8號機明台456號機陸續的跳電你影響到185萬千瓦的供電你只要少了任何剛剛本席所說的你就瀕臨限電"},{"start":8437.697,"end":8440.799,"text":"告訴你本期憂心夏季要到了夏季的用電高峰來臨緊急調度的機制常常要登場"},{"start":8457.749,"end":8475.917,"text":"會經常要登場你要未雨綢繆怎麼辦跟委員報告我們的機組都是在利用非夏天的時候做維修所以這些機組在6月之前會陸續歸零把你認為要穩定供電的方案請詳細書面資料給本席好不好是本席也再次強調"},{"start":8477.881,"end":8504.924,"text":"我們需要了解內容才能夠告訴民眾讓民眾安心好不好我最後一個議題推廣諾易基金的設立部長 王總監會我們提升對外出口競爭力跟國際貿易的地位我願意但是我台中很重要的臺灣區工具機零組件工業同業工會也就是我們號稱你們也非常關心的TMBA"},{"start":8505.845,"end":8521.808,"text":"我們公布了我們的工具機112年9月份的出口是比前期我們少了11.4%那你出口的機種跟出口的市場我有跟你分清楚機種你少了12.9%市場少了13.3%所以在113年當中你的貿易推廣工作計畫裡頭一樣智慧這個機械海外推廣的經費一樣是1億"},{"start":8535.111,"end":8553.424,"text":"我每一次都給你全力的支持但是你推廣不力你告訴我怎麼樣協助我們產業好不好我們全力的支持預算你一樣照這樣編可是你市場一直在下降你的機種出口率也下降你怎麼辦你怎麼樣協助我們產業沒錢不要說有錢你又沒辦法給我們推動這怎麼辦啊"},{"start":8560.333,"end":8561.314,"text":"市長你這麼回答還有有一點神經有觸動我請你告訴我"},{"start":8585.626,"end":8600.952,"text":"你每一年固定編列一樣的數字你的成效怎麼樣112年是成效不彰我告訴你市場下降了13%機種下降了12.9%你告訴我你未來怎麼推動請詳細書面資料給本市好嗎可以可以好我們再給委員"},{"start":8614.18,"end":8624.805,"text":"謝謝 接下來我們請謝一鳳委員因為我們沒有休息所以如果行政部門有需要請自行 謝謝好 謝謝主席我想要請台電的總經理我們再請王總經理"},{"start":8644.616,"end":8671.503,"text":"王總我想要請問一下就是我們在2021年跟我們2022年的停電就是事件的專案報告裡面你已經說明了我們夜間的就是因為太陽能電力的供應下降所以你們就是要想辦法讓夜間的電力的彈性可以恢復可是為什麼現在到了今年已經2023了"},{"start":8673.624,"end":8678.232,"text":"我們還是沒有辦法是不是?"},{"start":8678.232,"end":8680.415,"text":"2024跟委員報告齁這次最主要是因為"},{"start":8681.618,"end":8703.744,"text":"地震之後的一些機組陸陸續續故障陸陸續續內商股關係陸陸續續故障他不會是發生那這個狀況之下在15號當天是下午同時他半個小時之內發生的兩部應該講四部總共四部機組同時沒有電送出來那這個在台電送電的意思"},{"start":8705.004,"end":8724.105,"text":"在那個我的大潭電廠的8號機110萬千瓦然後呢在民潭的有三部的抽蓄發電機那是因為他的送電出來一個很重要的一個設備叫做Bus那個Bus呢因為地震搖晃了之後就在那個15號當天造成他短路所以他那個三部機組的電也送不出來"},{"start":8724.545,"end":8726.066,"text":"所以你這次的備載都沒有用到核電我看到都是柴油"},{"start":8739.971,"end":8754.646,"text":"修飾台積電的製備的36萬千瓦的柴油發電還有核二核三的柴油發電機我們等於是說在備轉的準備方面是會一道又一道的防線就是預防剛剛講到15號當天發生的這麼重大的衝擊"},{"start":8758.95,"end":8785.323,"text":"臺電被一個重擊但是因為我們的備轉容量是夠的所以我們有守住即使發生了這個事我們的備轉容量還有3%就是這樣子所以我很感謝同仁大家這麼努力可是我想要理解的是如果說我們備轉的容量夠那為什麼需要用到這麼多的柴油發電機還要用到台積電的"},{"start":8786.689,"end":8802.825,"text":"因為我們還要預留3%在最後萬一還有下一個的重極台電的一個事故發生的時候我們還要能守住不限電所以我們先把其他的部分先用掉留100萬千瓦的餘裕容量在那邊大概是這個目的"},{"start":8805.469,"end":8824.175,"text":"我還有看到我們用了台積電自備的36萬千瓦的柴油發電機但是根據台電111年度的永續報告書裡面台積電強調自己使用再生能源是達到預設的標準"},{"start":8826.016,"end":8854.492,"text":"但是在2019到2022年他們直接使用天然氣柴油的是8.61億度到13.36億度那如果我們說我們真的是沒有缺電真的是穩定供電的話為什麼台積電會使用柴油跟天然氣而不是使用再生能源"},{"start":8854.932,"end":8881.275,"text":"好 跟委員報告在2021那段時間主要是因為國內的景氣非常的好尤其是中美的問題之後很多台商回來所以那個時候的用電量突然暴增我們增加了大概6%的用電量從來沒有過這麼大的一個用電量所以在那個時候在某一些情境之下然後台電的基礎又有故障所以那時候那幾年有請台積電出來協助"},{"start":8882.056,"end":8882.076,"text":"財務部長"},{"start":8898.61,"end":8921.564,"text":"不足的阿是不是所以跟委員報告其實這幾年臺電的電力一直在持續的建設包括像最近深巴深巴是IPP啦不是臺電的電廠他已經在最近在試運轉了然後包括我們的臺中也有兩部機組新達也有三部機組正在興建所以我們這些量持續的在興建就是為了因應未來的用電的成長而在準備當中"},{"start":8923.045,"end":8930.988,"text":"臺電都會在前面5年10年之間就在預備未來的用電需求一直在努力那我還想請問王部長王部長你要卸任了這要跟你恭喜還是要跟你歡送你給自己打幾分"},{"start":8949.026,"end":8974.582,"text":"沒有打分數的問題就是做好每一天的工作你沒有打分數喔你對未來的那個我們新任的部長有什麼期許我們非常感謝他願意來承擔這樣的一個重責大任那對台灣的未來的經濟發展一定很有幫助是嗎那他是對於我們半導體最了解的部長你覺得你跟他了解的程度是怎樣"},{"start":8975.222,"end":8979.966,"text":"臺積電的永續報告裡面他們在2019年到2022年他們使用天然氣跟柴油是8.6億度到13.36億度那代表了對於臺積電來講"},{"start":9003.291,"end":9022.231,"text":"能源穩定的問題是非常重要的那它佔了台灣出口的GDP非常重要的比例我認為怎麼樣子讓台灣的電力可以穩定是非常重要的議題尤其是在這一次的大停電之後那部長你會怎麼樣期許他"},{"start":9023.264,"end":9048.397,"text":"我們確實這個電力的部分大家都很關心那我想這個部分怎麼樣做好電力的供給我們也會跟新部長做好交接現在我們正在做的電源的開發也好或者因應產業界有新的需求我們怎麼樣搭配要提早準備等等我們一定都會去做說明我們今天還有審就是核後端的那個基金"},{"start":9049.377,"end":9076.831,"text":"但是我其實在這四年來我一直在想那我也問王總經理到底對於我們的核燃料棒現在是核廢料嗎?怎麼樣子重新再利用?那國際間已經有先進的科技可以重新再利用那對於相關的議題臺電有沒有進行相關的研究?來"},{"start":9079.318,"end":9096.649,"text":"向委員報告,臺電持續在關注國際上最新的科技的應用,就像委員提到的這些已經用過核燃料的廢料可不可以再精進的部分,當然國外也在做這方面研究,只要一旦有突破有成果,我們也會照這個成果。"},{"start":9098.49,"end":9098.65,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9119.483,"end":9143.235,"text":"合電這樣子的一個壓力那未來如果我們繼續使用核電的時候我們才可以就是說解決核廢料的問題是不是是跟委員報告我們現在在核二、核一廠區要蓋中間的中期的這個核廢料的儲存廠在那個儲存廠我們會把已經用過的燃料棒放在那個地方"},{"start":9143.655,"end":9160.98,"text":"那一旦未來技術有如委員說的他可以再把這些燃料、廢燃料再濃縮然後再利用那這些技術但成熟這些我們就馬上就會有做後續的一些處置和應用好 謝謝喔來我們接下來請邱志維委員"},{"start":9185.153,"end":9194.604,"text":"國貿署 江副署長 能源署 李副署長 政務長 謝聖川署 何署長 水利署 外署長 還有人事局管理局 楊局長"},{"start":9206.311,"end":9234.064,"text":"一起上來好了今天省基金幾個部分先問推廣貿易基金這是經特的部分這個江市長基金來源今年編列多少錢基金來源今年編列多少錢基金來源我們113年編列67億好主要是因為你的出口總值增加對那你的這個基金用途編列多少錢"},{"start":9235.151,"end":9261.818,"text":"用途是58億左右那是國際市場開發對哪些國際市場你要先開發我們國際市場的話是全面的就是只要應該有幾個重點嘛不可能說全面的今年的幾個重點在哪裡主要的第一個是幫廠商爭取更多的買主所以會邀請主要的買主來台灣第二個部分呢是到國際上去"},{"start":9262.738,"end":9288.013,"text":"參加相關的展覽或者相關的這個推廣的活動去年也有相關的計劃嘛是不是可以把去年你們這個針對基金用途在國際市場開發的部分把這成果是不是可以提供一些把相關資料提供給我另外CPTPP也是你們重要的重點嘛就您個人的預估啊當然經貿辦也很重要你個人預估臺灣加入CPTPP最樂觀是什麼時候可以加入"},{"start":9289.375,"end":9311.886,"text":"這個是我們一直會努力的目標 這個委員也有成立一個CPTPP的一個聯盟我說你預估啦 我現在預估 因為我時間有限 你預估最樂觀、最悲觀、最樂觀是什麼時候我們臺灣可以有CPTPP我們會盡我們最大的努力 持續的跟相關的會員我問你 樂觀跟悲觀 最樂觀我們什麼時候可以 大概給我一個提成表嘛"},{"start":9312.98,"end":9319.906,"text":"這個時間表我們可能沒有辦法由我方來決定因為必須要所有的會員都要有共識請部長請部長你都不講啊我都請部長休息"},{"start":9341.616,"end":9342.699,"text":"連樂觀你們都講不出來來部長樂觀的話我們什麼時候可以教習"},{"start":9348.747,"end":9372.007,"text":"委員確實比較抱歉 因為確實要在他們這邊成立 譬如說入會工作小組來啟動我都很熟啦 但你們說有個目標值最多關我們什麼時候可以加入 很多非操是在我 可操是在我可操是在我們部分 我們全體都說好了我當初有時候把相關的法律修正案也都修完了對不對 相關要法什麼的全部修完了"},{"start":9372.267,"end":9400.456,"text":"沒錯那你要有個工作期程給駐外單位說什麼時候我們要加入這才有工作壓力嘛因為我們有壓力還有動力啊因為我們台灣是被審的這個部分那事實上這個外館非常非常的積極來爭取讓他們相關的會員來成立入會的這個工作小組那但是確實這個部分不是比較好你先回座那個因為經濟特別收入有五項基金我先跳過來先問水資源這個老實講"},{"start":9403.217,"end":9409.78,"text":"今年總收入是多少?91億左右支出是大於收入?對支出主要是擴大7億阿公兩隻口,你今天有沒有7億?"},{"start":9418.127,"end":9433.757,"text":"今年還是持續會在前提裡面做清淤還有包括阿公店水庫有沒有清淤有有有有清淤齁對你把阿公店水庫清淤的目標值跟花的預算你提供一個要給我齁完全沒問題因為潭嶺志鴻池岡山齁潭嶺志鴻池你們目前規劃怎麼樣"},{"start":9435.419,"end":9453.117,"text":"臺體滯洪池的部分可能要看我們現在要看整個預算的來源你把相關的進度再混一下給我那滯洪池也是你們管的嘛對不對對我剛才有這個聯邦學習A、B、D滯洪池有前紅號滯洪池"},{"start":9454.258,"end":9454.658,"text":"發言委員：完整會議"},{"start":9474.668,"end":9481.372,"text":"那這沒有問題 這部長非常重視啊我們每天去那邊運動還是有人抱怨說公共施展不夠這個職災做得不夠好請問請加強好不好好好那接下來這個中小企業署好 委員好何署長 比較少人問你齁這個你今年啊"},{"start":9504.249,"end":9530.658,"text":"你這個中小企業發展署你這個基金來源是多少錢?這個國庫要撥補27億28、27億27億國庫撥補然後其他我們有一些收入大概9千多萬好啦28億28億是今天要省的你們這個基金來源是林口新創園區你們針對這些新創園區要做到南北平衡阿"},{"start":9532.133,"end":9542.666,"text":"南部有沒有相關新創園區的規劃南部目前是雅灣在高雄那是高雄有分很大有南高雄北高雄北高雄也要重視"},{"start":9544.346,"end":9567.396,"text":"你那個雅雯在南高雄是賴瑞榮那邊你當然要重視那我這邊你也不能忽視啊北高雄是未來S囊帶的核心耶你也有新創學校的這個育成中心啊他們也有設一些新創拿什麼不能相比你要拿出這個不僅是台灣的南北平衡高雄的南北要平衡"},{"start":9568.444,"end":9578.2,"text":"你很多資源放在這個高雄南邊固然我支持但是你也不能忽視這個高雄北邊高雄北邊是未來高雄市進步繁榮發展的一個核心區"},{"start":9579.491,"end":9600.547,"text":"所以你新創事業你要這個超前部署所以我要求你是不是在未來除了雅灣之外在高雄的北邊你能夠去規劃一個這個新創園區我們再來找看有沒有適合的地點地點都是你們的台南很多地啊沒有沒有那個要重新蓋的話那可能這個部長你支持嗎點頭就好了"},{"start":9602.898,"end":9620.171,"text":"部長的支持所以一個月之內針對在北高雄成立這個中小企業組你主管的成立這個新創這個聚落或新創園區提出一個完整的規劃說明撒各位好不好另外你要提供對這個新創事業"},{"start":9622.83,"end":9649.239,"text":"新創事業當然需要更多的政府的協助我希望你能夠針對中南部的中小企業也好或中南部的新創事業也好提供更多具體的協助北部當然一方面北部可能相對資源比較多相對的人才也都集中在這邊南部也有人才南部也有新創需求所以對南部新創基地特別是高雄"},{"start":9651.514,"end":9678.204,"text":"新創的資源分配要多一點在高雄特別是北高雄所以署長這部分我會定期的跟你做討論你需要把你的過去一年執行的狀況針對高雄在南部對高雄你扶植的新創產業的具體的成果是一個月之內是不是給我相關的資料最後這個"},{"start":9680.531,"end":9696.46,"text":"再生能源,再生能源就是李副署長是再生能源規模是多少?再生能源大概6點多億,再生能源基金並不大那目前我們推動再生能源的費用大部分是在需要基金裡面"},{"start":9697.867,"end":9713.424,"text":"你你今年的這個主要的基金用途是在增加太陽能深色的留神優化是是這個經費這個部分啊你能不能具體再說明一下是主要是太陽能的深色主要是地面型的用在地面型的"},{"start":9713.744,"end":9728.539,"text":"因為他案件非常多一年大概我們目前大概有六七千件的案件那所以我們尤其是地面型的有涉及一些環境的議題還有土地的程序那你那個所謂模組的回收費是什麼東西"},{"start":9728.999,"end":9748.918,"text":"模組的回收會是我們現在太陽光電未來現在用它20年的經濟受領到了之後它就會變成廢棄物那我們現在是要求 那為什麼要由你來回收呢我們是提供一個基金它在設置的時候它就要繳每K瓦是1000元的基金作為未來處理的費用也就是說它經濟受領完成之後要處理它的廢棄物那這要一筆錢"},{"start":9752.802,"end":9765.257,"text":"那這個我們是跟環境部合作的那我們在一開始的時候就把它收起了免得它未來以後20年到它就跑掉了所以我們是等於前方在那裏作為未來處理廢棄物使用"},{"start":9766.775,"end":9767.736,"text":"最後請教一下楊博跟楊局長"},{"start":9790.14,"end":9815.666,"text":"白浦財運園區你什麼時候要給我?像委員報告白浦園區的部分目前是高雄市政府在規劃我當然知道啊那現在是爭取才有的對那現在高雄市政府變成這個喬科的第二區對不對所以上次有跟委員報告那你要還給我一塊有有現在已經上次有跟委員報告過就是那個在喬科的南方的部分我們要找一塊哎呀我在我選區啊你不要對對對一定會找到"},{"start":9816.526,"end":9840.733,"text":"已經有確定的區位了嗎?目前是看重喬科南方的有一塊土地既然已經確定區位就開始啟動作業流程因為你這個國土計畫實施之後還要相關的地目變更這個當然我知道這個部分我當然討論過好幾次但是越早啟動你到時候才能趕快這個"},{"start":9841.613,"end":9842.414,"text":"我們現在請林德福委員做詢答"},{"start":9876.176,"end":9886.128,"text":"謝謝召委是不是我們來請王部長還有水利署賴署長還有我們台電許副總"},{"start":9894.092,"end":9906.765,"text":"王部長我請教因為本席去年在3月的時候有問過這個題目我現在再問一次如果台電正式匯除核四把核四認列損失馬上就增加了2800億的虧損媒體報導台電核四轉型方案將改為綠能的綜合電廠"},{"start":9917.595,"end":9931.354,"text":"相關合適的損失政府將採婚年認列來減損以電匯婚年婚攤來收回那我請問部長在520前會不會有定案"},{"start":9933.791,"end":9957.323,"text":"應該是還沒有還沒有定案那我請教因為2023年其實超徵有3617億為例那本席我本來是希望說其實你超徵的稅收一次把它處理把那個合適的問題避免電價再度調漲這個部長你有什麼看法其實一次把它處理掉因為你電價以後漲你漲電價一漲百物期漲"},{"start":9962.87,"end":9966.914,"text":"事實上3600這個問題主計總處這邊應該有多次的說明他是包括中央跟地方的部分那中央的部分那在中央的相關的經費包括能不能讓我們台電來追加預算還有勞保的使用等等那經費確實都已經分配了"},{"start":9984.471,"end":10009.732,"text":"因為你每一次只要這個大家預測說台電會這個可能電價會調漲你百物就先仗在前面這個是很嚴重的問題部長你知道嗎我們確實對這個電價會影響相關的他們已經做了非常謹慎的處理所以在這個民生的或者是內需的這個部分其實漲幅只有7%的部分而已是部長其實齁"},{"start":10013.679,"end":10041.798,"text":"這個事前要怎麼去規劃非常重要你不要說漲了以後而且拉了那麼長結果講實在話現在真的百物齊漲了什麼都漲老百姓這個痛苦指數越來越高因為薪水不漲那個不漲全台有多數水庫蓄水率不到一半什麼水庫蓄水量只剩兩成多"},{"start":10042.759,"end":10059.056,"text":"交通部氣象局預報表示預估春季降雨並不是很樂觀希望民眾絕業用水昨天石門水庫水位只剩219公尺有蓄水量剩"},{"start":10060.259,"end":10074.336,"text":"只有4983萬立方公尺那我請問經濟部目前你們有什麼因應的措施預計什麼水庫、水位降至多少就會啟動離風減壓的供水你們有沒有一些預備的方式換案"},{"start":10077.499,"end":10099.368,"text":"現在目前是還不到這個減壓供水的地步是還不用那我們確實是會謹慎來再看這個枯水期的部分那當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分未雨綢繆我是認為很重要部長日前已表示水價沒有調漲計畫那我請問部長這個承諾有效期這個520前還是還是一年有效"},{"start":10107.339,"end":10132.454,"text":"目前520之前目前沒有條價的規劃520以後你不知道因為你那時候不當部長了嘛對不對是部長水資源作業基金113年預算編列耗水會有5億元收入可用於節約用水的推動2015年經濟部曾推動補助購買省水的洗衣機、馬桶等等"},{"start":10133.194,"end":10157.012,"text":"無預的預算每年可節省821萬噸的水量大約一個阿公電水庫有那麼大的水量蓄水量我是希望說經濟部應用這些耗水費收入來規劃省水產品的補助加速民眾來更換這個省水洗衣機、馬桶、節水又減碳一舉兩得,您的看法呢?"},{"start":10158.019,"end":10172.12,"text":"謝謝委員那因為那個今年度會到4月截止然後之後收取的費用是多少那這個怎麼規劃水利署會謹慎來做規劃我是任委署長賴署長這個事情要規劃而且要多做宣導阿"},{"start":10173.271,"end":10189.608,"text":"你的看法勒當然要多多宣導因為大幅可以節水對整體的社會都是有幫助的對啊你這個要未雨綢繆而且這個是長遠的計畫長遠的看法每一年都會逢到好不好大前天4月15號台電發生大跳機"},{"start":10190.629,"end":10216.547,"text":"那其實北台灣差點大停電還是這個協調科技業減電這個減少用電並幫忙發電才搶救回來但能造成桃園以及北部新北地區有一些停電那部長您在111年的303全台大停電後您有自行處分說個人不在乎個人的去留那如今520內閣"},{"start":10218.57,"end":10220.397,"text":"經濟部長的人選已經有出現了"},{"start":10221.721,"end":10229.466,"text":"那王部長您是我能夠承諾520前若要是再像這種大規模停電跳電的狀況你就請辭下臺你的看法呢這個部分我們當然要負責任但是因為這一陣子確實是因為地震造成的損傷那企業的部分有發電機幫我們發電但是他沒有減少用電所以對產業的生產都沒有影響所以說你認為520前絕對是很safe"},{"start":10252.041,"end":10273.674,"text":"沒有問題我們一定是要把它做好相關的管理我也希望如此那個最後一個議題太陽能光電發展與我國電網的發展更新速度息息相關那媒體報導波蘭這個電網營運商因為太陽能發電增長的速度過快而在今年就必須這個"},{"start":10276.135,"end":10292.842,"text":"三次的切斷綠能併網的連接因為其綠能擴張過快已經超過波瀾電網負荷量的程度反而可能造成跳電斷電的風險那部長我國是否也有沒有相同的狀況"},{"start":10294.062,"end":10301.551,"text":"沒有每個國家的情形不太一樣那對台灣的部分我們除了綠能之外那另外除能還有我們的電網的這個設置其實是相當所以說沒有這個問題就對了我們沒有剛才委員講的這個情形"},{"start":10309.901,"end":10337.213,"text":"波蘭未來將逐步的來升級電網以因應再生能源的成長那我國行政院在303大停電後同年也提出說要強化電網韌性建設計畫10年5645億新台幣來升級電網那請問上述預算包括綠能、並往連接的這些部分有沒有需要再增加預算以建立以再生能源並往連接"},{"start":10339.214,"end":10367.544,"text":"跟委員報告這裡的經費就包括做這樣的一個分散電網的需求了我認為這個很重要是好不好謝謝是謝謝接下來我們請王宏威委員請做詢答好謝謝主席我請王部長我們再請王部長"},{"start":10372.895,"end":10389.655,"text":"好 委員好部長你應該知道這幾天桃園的居民非常崩潰因為到今天早上連續三天的大停電而且今天早上的停電範圍將近一萬戶那幾乎已經是分區在停電"},{"start":10391.222,"end":10409.927,"text":"請問一下部長你所掌握的狀況為什麼桃園這幾天連續的在停電跳電跟委員報告今天早上確實我也看到那個有大雷雨大雷雨對那這個大雷雨會對地方的配電的這些設備等台北有沒有大雷雨"},{"start":10410.727,"end":10429.154,"text":"臺北也有大雷雨所以只要有大雷雨任何地方都可能發生跳電是不是大雷雨會對地方到家戶的這些好那我想請問今天早上大雷雨前天晚上大前天晚上應該是昨天晚上跟在前天晚上有大雷雨嗎"},{"start":10430.524,"end":10435.226,"text":"沒有大雷雨不是我們確實是一個是纜線的這個跳脫一個是設備的為何通通發生在桃園今天如果是發生在台北我們也受不了昨天的部分確實在桃園你們有很多的理由我請問部長你要不要跟桃園的居民"},{"start":10454.313,"end":10455.555,"text":"說道歉連續3天部長還有我們可不可以"},{"start":10473.417,"end":10498.445,"text":"在這邊保證只要今天早上為止這個停電可以結束了一個連續桃園不會在近期之內再發生這樣的大規模停電可以保證嗎這個不能用保證但是我們發生這個設備損壞我們一定會用最快的速度來修復那我想今天早上委員也講了那這個目前都已經恢復了是"},{"start":10499.245,"end":10508.728,"text":"當然要恢復啊所以也就是說我們一再說要強調我們的一個就是在電線的韌性上面你們現在也沒有辦法做到嗎這不是缺電的問題可是問題電網韌性還是有問題啊在桃園集中這樣子連續三天不知道是第四度還第五度已經數不清楚了所以我覺得在這一點對桃園居民是非常非常的不公平"},{"start":10525.433,"end":10535.904,"text":"那另外剛才林德福委員也特別提到其實尤其你們剛剛調整電價然後就發生連續的大停電剛才我在我們的財委會還在問主計長主計處在講說我們現在的通膨壓力當然有來自於電價的上漲"},{"start":10544.893,"end":10550.182,"text":"而我們現在通膨壓力下其實有關於房租我們房租已經連續8個月到3月份連續8個月都超過百分之二這是過去從來沒有發生過的"},{"start":10557.645,"end":10577.035,"text":"所以也就是這樣通膨壓力還有升息大家也知道央行升息就為了為了你漲電價嘛所以我們一直在講錯誤的能源政策一定要改弦易張一定要跟動當然你馬上要離開經濟部我希望未來的新政府應該針對我們的能源政策應該做全面的去做檢討那另外請教部長我們今天"},{"start":10582.958,"end":10584.92,"text":"何時會啟動核三廠的核廢料處置?"},{"start":10599.588,"end":10624.659,"text":"因為核三廠它目前的用過核燃料的部分不多嘛 對不對對它大概還有5年的容量所以我們大概包含一二號機組都還有5年容量對是嗎對所以現在不需要啟動核三廠所以這就是部長啊我們為什麼在講說我們希望核電延益核電延益現在全世界潮流都是如此"},{"start":10625.546,"end":10632.328,"text":"美國研議日本研議美國現在有些電廠還要把它延到80年那當然他們會要經過一些評估所以我們一直在講你們常常用核二廠說哎呀這個核燃料棒啊這個呃這個呃他的該是儲存槽那每次說啊新北市政府怎麼樣怎麼樣問題可是核三廠剛才也講核三廠的核燃料標根本沒有滿所以核三廠其實是可以在你們研議的開始"},{"start":10653.976,"end":10670.904,"text":"可是為什麼不做呢?是 發言委員他基本上如果說核三廠雖然他只有5年可是我研議的部分你還是需要後面的你現在就可以開始開始來做所以我就說你到現在你的意思說你根本不用去做核三廠的核廢料處置"},{"start":10672.085,"end":10686.351,"text":"但是在我們現在整個的電源的就整個能源結構極不穩定而且現在看起來都要調高電價的一個狀況之下我在這邊還是重申雖然部長或者也許你們我不曉得會不會有職務的調動我還是覺得你們能夠以民生為念"},{"start":10692.794,"end":10717.233,"text":"以我們的產業發展為念能夠把這個核電廠可以開始啟動研議計畫發言委員研議的部分說實在還是要有法規的部分我們有修法呀我們有修法你們行政院也可以提出版本啊你們行政院如果要做的話也不需要我們立法院沒有修法你們也在做現在我們還有修法很多人還說我們修法是幫你們解套其實我覺得我是幫全台灣人解套啊"},{"start":10721.576,"end":10739.996,"text":"是不是我們今天不必不需要為了什麼政治之爭、政黨之爭而是我相信部長自己本身也提到太多產業界的意見了吧到現在為止如果我們還不做一些更動我們還不能夠做一些改變還要死守著反核神主白"},{"start":10740.536,"end":10769.085,"text":"還要死守住2025非核家園的省主牌那麼全台灣要付出慘痛的代價這個我時間到了我希望即便是在部長即將卸任仍然苦口婆心今天你們如果能夠動念一下能夠為整個的產業發展民生用電我們現在的電價如果按照這樣走下去電價只會上漲然後我們整個通膨只會加重然後我們的所有的租屋族只會苦不堪言謝謝"},{"start":10777.039,"end":10778.159,"text":"王美花部長和台電"},{"start":10805.282,"end":10806.403,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10836.383,"end":10855.242,"text":"道歉了幾次?跟委員報告齁,那這個我們講的都不是叫扯啦齁,那這個事實就是事實。有,不是啊,我現在問的問題是有沒有算過部長任內道歉了幾次?我沒有特別算,但是因為...那有意向中道歉幾次?沒有特別想這些事情,對。"},{"start":10857.001,"end":10873.313,"text":"講過都不記得也不是啦犯了錯、道歉了、反正催淪賠交換這個也不是講過都不記得本席幫你回憶一下至少我們可以查到就有三次三次都跟什麼有關?記得嗎?"},{"start":10875.56,"end":10891.813,"text":"都是跟電有關都跟電有關阿2021年有全台大跳電五天內兩次停電經濟部長道歉2022年3月3號全台大停電經濟部長道歉今年"},{"start":10893.512,"end":10908.953,"text":"龍潭桃園連三天跳電經濟部長又道歉每一次道歉都一定會講一句不容許再發生這樣的錯誤了不容許再讓國人沒有電可以用了結果道歉完還是一樣啊"},{"start":10910.114,"end":10919.436,"text":"道歉完還是這樣子啊還是一而再再而三的道歉啊很廉價的道歉國人、民眾感受不到我不知道說部長哪來的勇氣可以在國會殿堂裡面講說你的道歉是真誠的我剛連問你說你道歉過幾次你也不記得了然後你的道歉理由你只記得說跟電有關"},{"start":10937.483,"end":10965.644,"text":"我之前在總職學園就問過你你的勇氣到底是梁靜茹給你還是張正岳給你的我覺得我們做事情就是為國家認真來做事情部長想請教4月15號這一次我們有提到也有人講到是說這個金掌或是說這個台電高層緊急出手打電話給我們這些國內的大戶請他們要嘛就是降載要嘛就是啟動他們的一些備用電源有沒有這樣的事情"},{"start":10966.401,"end":10973.543,"text":"我們在這個非常緊急的像這種臨時出狀況的部分我們確實有電話聯絡有電話聯繫是當初電話聯絡聯絡了多少家業者因為這個是台電這邊來做相關的聯絡總經理請回答當然這個部分我們是針對用電比較大的用戶聯絡了多少家廠商"},{"start":10995.458,"end":10999.56,"text":"媒體報導也有講是說當天的備轉容量率最低的時候到2.8%2.8%換算成這個千瓦的話會是多少?"},{"start":11017.025,"end":11020.948,"text":"臺電有個內規叫做臺灣電力公司電源不足時期限制用電辦法執行及通報機制有嗎?"},{"start":11020.948,"end":11020.968,"text":"有"},{"start":11045.23,"end":11073.212,"text":"他有講到如果說少於90萬千瓦的時候要召開第1次的緊急會議所以剛有提到4月15號是低於90萬千瓦有沒有召開緊急會議跟委員報告發生低於剛剛講到八八八十萬這個是到了晚上的6點16分是那有沒有召開緊急會議那我們在前面都會有召開會議每天都會開會但是說會議的頻度跟他的那個層級"},{"start":11074.193,"end":11082.447,"text":"本席現在要問的是說你剛剛已經承認了台電內部我們有電源不足時期限制用電辦法執行跟通報機制"},{"start":11084.053,"end":11102.213,"text":"他有講到如果說少於90萬千瓦要召開第1次的緊急會議如果更急迫少於50萬千瓦要召開第2次的緊急會議並且要即刻通報經濟部經濟部也要成立緊急應變小組對嗎沒有錯那本席現在請教"},{"start":11104.574,"end":11122.022,"text":"4月15號那天有沒有依照相關規定召開緊急會議我們是在當天的早上8點10分跟12點召開會議但是那個不叫緊急會議因為那個時候的備轉容量率還有在6%以上是安全的是很安全的本席現在問是2.8%的時候有沒有依照我們的內部通報機制"},{"start":11126.744,"end":11150.716,"text":"召開緊急會議我們相關同仁都在我們的緊急會議室但是沒有那個名目說召開這個緊急會議沒有這個名目但是我們的高階主管全部在那個地方那你做出來決策你好那本席要請教所以你今天打給這10家工業大戶你是用什麼樣的名義跟決策我們有所謂的虛量反應我們有虛量反應的機制第一個是虛量反應的機制虛量反應的機制也是有合約的關係"},{"start":11157,"end":11170.386,"text":"您聽得懂剛本席的疑問跟質詢了嗎?是台電內部有我剛提到的這個是我們也是依照相關條例台電內部有設立電源不足時期限制用電辦法"},{"start":11172.113,"end":11192.119,"text":"限制優先辦法明文就已經有規定了如果說低於90萬千瓦的時候要召開緊急會議那也要通報經濟部但是剛剛總經理也承認了就是說其實當天已經低於90萬千瓦了但是沒有依照相關的辦法來召開緊急會議他又嘗試說大家有在這個會議裡面但是沒有來成立這樣的一個應變小組"},{"start":11193.399,"end":11214.49,"text":"那可是有去打電話給這10家的工業大戶那我們就要問這10家工業大戶他到底是依照什麼樣的法源依據先工業大戶算是配合啊因為可能也認為是說我們國家共體時間大家覺得是說好如果說現在真的你告訴我們你是發電機關你是發電公司你告訴我們說電源不夠了我們該降的降該調整的調整"},{"start":11216.111,"end":11235.906,"text":"但是你沒有相關法源依據啊因為如果說你有成立這個緊急會議的話你才能夠有法源依據來去要求不是嗎而且有沒有依照相關的規定來通報經濟部還是現在都是因為5月20號之前了所以大家便宜行事換件手機拿起來卡這個LINE傳這個"},{"start":11237.307,"end":11260.338,"text":"阿大家用人情拜託的阿總經理平常是跟你也不錯你保證跟平常是跟我們也不錯所以我就傳訊給你我就打電話給你你就這樣就對了你就啟動就對了國家做事都沒有一個法源都沒有一個辦法我可不可以我說明一下齁那第一個委員講的那個時段事實上他們台電的所有的高階通貨都在這個25樓的會議裡面那這個會議事實上 那為什麼沒有依照法規"},{"start":11264.76,"end":11273.764,"text":"為什麼沒有依照辦法來成立緊急應變小組來召開緊急會議那個時間比較重要是來解決問題那所有的高管都已經在這邊出了這個問題了本時要問的後續本時要問的後續就是請提供緊急會議的會議記錄"},{"start":11282.025,"end":11293.115,"text":"有沒有沒有那是不是又是黑箱作業你就是讓沒有錯 緊急會議就是要處理事情但是你的會議記錄在哪裡這不是說明就可以解決的如果說我們國家內做事當然要解決問題但是更重要的是你的法源依據在哪裡"},{"start":11308.368,"end":11333.506,"text":"三秒鐘也是開會成立趕快決策有人負責三分鐘之內就可以做出決定這就有法源依據你有辦法如果說你的辦法出來之後你沒有依照相關的辦法去做而是每一次都是用人質的都是私下拜託的你除了第一沒有法源依據第二便宜行事第三是迴避國會的監督這個"},{"start":11335.007,"end":11336.329,"text":"本席在問說那緊急會議的會議記錄在哪裡當天做錯決策會議記錄在哪裡"},{"start":11350.649,"end":11352.309,"text":"委員提供所以當天有會議記錄嗎?當然沒有會議記錄部長親口承認4月15號在那麼緊急的狀況下沒有會議記錄大家就是共同的來"},{"start":11374.076,"end":11402.005,"text":"黑箱作業這個不叫黑箱這個解決問題最重要啊當然解決問題最重要但是你現在便宜形式本席就已經講出來了一開始我就講說有沒有這樣的辦法當然最重要就是要解決事情最重要嘛我講不客氣的要所謂的舊電是誰造成的也是你台電也是你經濟部不是嗎能源政策左肢右臭能源政策搞得讓大家覺得說提心吊膽能源政策搞得要去掉頭寸"},{"start":11402.985,"end":11423.913,"text":"這不是你經濟部造成的嗎你今天反客為主你今天反客為主你今天顛倒是非你今天讓大家覺得是說明明是你自己闖出來的禍結果你今天有這樣的一個緊急狀況還沒有會議記錄這不黑箱 什麼才是黑箱我完全不能接受這種東西不管你接不接受因為這根本不是你的權利這不是你的權利我們跟這些大用戶都有相關的契約我們都有契約"},{"start":11432.617,"end":11460.015,"text":"臺灣我們中華民國是法治的國家而本來就有相關的辦法你沒有辦法自圓其說我沒有辦法自圓其說部長你沒有辦法自圓其說因為你剛才打行政最重要是你這樣是迴避國會的監督完全迴避國會的監督我說實在的話再道歉100次都不及讓國人有一個合理安全穩定的用電來的重要這是本席給你的最後忠告謝謝"},{"start":11461.309,"end":11474.619,"text":"好 謝謝我想大家都不要激動趕快去把事情理清楚但是行政部門剛剛本席在詢答的時候告訴我是當天都沒有開會"},{"start":11476.623,"end":11489.2,"text":"現在是說這個高階主管都在現場本席也問了到底這一次的事件我們又多花了多少錢告訴我一度的調度是8塊再接下來說10塊最後"},{"start":11492.844,"end":11495.667,"text":"行政部門請你們在回答的時候你把真實的事情講出來"},{"start":11513.043,"end":11532.313,"text":"民眾要知道光光一個這樣的事件發生的時候我們納稅錢還要增加多少這是第一點所以也請台電公司你請剛剛你告訴我你們還沒有統計完成那你們在今天下班前請把它統計完成送交給經濟委員會以及巡達的委員"},{"start":11533.713,"end":11544.226,"text":"王總經理謝謝接下來我們請這才是非常理性的一個討論好不好因為不是罵來罵去罵到最後得不到答案民眾不要這個的接下來我們請黃國昌委員請做詢談"},{"start":11560.319,"end":11565.443,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩有請部長我們再請王部長台電的代表跟王總經理"},{"start":11573.735,"end":11591.476,"text":"表會好之前我在質詢國發會的時候我是點出來我們的國發基金拿了將近快要30億聯同耀華玻璃去投了一家虧損累累累積虧損上百億的光電公司結果搞了半天了以後"},{"start":11593.499,"end":11611.318,"text":"政府發納稅的錢我不會說那叫產業升級根本讓國發基金變成紓困基金然後那家公司的董事長就成為蔡英文綠年後援會的總會長這樣子的官商關係是我沒有辦法接受的"},{"start":11612.951,"end":11633.724,"text":"這個跟部長沒有關係因為接下來這家公司一片綠油油全部都是用民進黨的權貴在那些公司裡面有的當獨董有的當董事有的安插自己的私人進去但我關心的事情是什麼"},{"start":11634.446,"end":11658.814,"text":"這家公司當初跟經濟部承諾他不會賣股結果拿到了張斌工業區以後聯合再生工程股票賣得乾乾淨淨的套利大賺一筆了以後大賺一筆了以後讓那時候的工業局局長都說這個不是我提高聲量而已我們部長都提高聲量可以這樣胡搞瞎搞"},{"start":11659.534,"end":11682.961,"text":"其中有一個關鍵的問題當初這一家後台很硬的聯合再生去拿張濱工業區那邊的地的時候他裡面有做承諾為了要取得在地的居民在地環保團體的同意點頭他們做了什麼承諾他們做的承諾是他們要保留一個生態熱區"},{"start":11684.677,"end":11704.813,"text":"結果案場拿到了土地拿到了賣股錢賺了結果前面的承諾全部拋諸腦後發文要求經濟部工業局同意他們我們之前承諾的那個生態特區算了不要做了部長有沒有這樣的事"},{"start":11706.933,"end":11711.118,"text":"第一個他在生態熱區的部分他確實招標的時候有講不過他是提到他3跟4兩個部分標到的話他要來做因為這個生態熱區會跨到3跟4兩個的地域但是他最後只拿到一個標案沒有拿到兩個標案"},{"start":11726.275,"end":11726.315,"text":"執行部長"},{"start":11756.355,"end":11784.749,"text":"來看我先跟部長講我的立場是廠商在拿標案的時候做了很多承諾目的是什麼他要拿到好的分數他要拿到那個標案結果東西標案到手落袋了以後前面做的承諾全部都忘了能不做就不做廠商從他自私自利的立場或許可以這樣幹但我把這件事情提出來的理由是什麼經濟部也好"},{"start":11785.717,"end":11803.689,"text":"我們的主管機關也好要有自己的立場不能讓廠商這樣胡作非為部長剛剛說了我提了這個問題以後你們會請聯合再生好好說明我靜待我靜待他們最後說明的結果以及經濟部做什麼樣子的處置"},{"start":11805.229,"end":11831.003,"text":"國家的光電政策絕對不是讓這些覺得自己後台很硬的廠商愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞除了這些以外我們繼續再往下看聯合再生一樣跑去跟台水拿標案取得台水公司的光電標案讓台水放他們的光電板台灣自然水公司啦暗場我全部都列下來"},{"start":11832.359,"end":11844.07,"text":"結果他拿到了這個案場以後現在開始要做什麼事情開始要進行契約的變更聯合再生內部討論的時候說這個電我們來賣給雲豹可以賺更多的錢"},{"start":11851.578,"end":11863.553,"text":"那為什麼要賣給雲豹內部會議討論說因為雲豹我們可以處理台水可以處理台電他們通通都會同意我們來修改契約"},{"start":11864.813,"end":11892.421,"text":"我接到這個檢舉了以後我一定要求證我不是說人家怎麼講我就怎麼相信所以我召集了台電跟台水到黨團的辦公室來我當面據你跟他們提出這個檢舉有沒有這樣的事台電跟台水都跟我說有他們有提出換約的要求我那個時候告訴我們的國營事業堅守立場哈"},{"start":11893.851,"end":11921.81,"text":"你們是在為國家做事不是在為特定的光電業者謀利結果台水有堅守立場台水含附給我的是回復聯合再生我們不同意修改合約台水堅守立場但我今天利用質詢的時候特別跟部長報告這件事情是這個聯合再生非常的囂張台水不同意他們現在的計畫是什麼硬幹"},{"start":11924.612,"end":11951.574,"text":"臺水不同意關臺水不同意我們還是要硬幹完全不理臺水的意見他們也發了什麼他們也發了約跟臺電說他要跟中子跟臺電之間啊各受的合約這件事情是不是真的我今天不了解了報告委員這件事情是真的確實他要跟我們解約就是FIT臺電同意了沒有"},{"start":11953.591,"end":11980.183,"text":"我瞭解的是在公司的程序上我們因為是希望把綠電都給民間業者的廠商所以你們同意嗎?是嗎?原則上我們是同意這樣子的案子所以嘛就落入他們的套路了嘛好來請經濟部部長台電要同意台電負責但台水什麼?台水不同意喔當初喔當初台水跟他們簽約的時候是已經講好了喔"},{"start":11981.65,"end":12008.242,"text":"我把這些案場給你一度多少錢要怎麼算全部簽了什麼約這個又是第二個例子第二個例子喔第二個例子是什麼廠商拿到國家的資源了以後他真的在幫國家想嗎他沒有在幫國家想他愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞講話很囂張欸我背後我可以找到人去處理啊"},{"start":12009.232,"end":12015.707,"text":"我就是要硬闖阿你台水不同意又如何這件事情部長知不知道"},{"start":12017.77,"end":12040.802,"text":"委員我這樣聽起來有幾個可能需要我需要了解假設今天他的太陽光電是賣給台電那是短購費率但是他要跟台電中止去賣給民間我們是歡迎的因為這個就直接賣給民間台電就不需要短購費率來收購那至於委員講的這個台水的部分不要這個我回去再了解是什麼樣的一個狀況因為台水也好台電也好"},{"start":12044.344,"end":12070.814,"text":"上面全部主管機關都是我們的經濟部嘛我今天利用這個質詢告訴部長一個基本的觀念廠商他們站在他們自己的立場他們想要賺錢但我的要求只有一個我們的主管機關在面對這件事情的時候是要站在納稅人的立場站在國家的立場以納稅人的立場跟國家的利益為最優先不可以讓他們這個樣子愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞"},{"start":12071.576,"end":12093.083,"text":"守法如出一策阿當初拿張斌工業區的時候做一堆承諾拿到了以後愛怎麼改就怎麼改反正我們主管機關不會管嘛阿把主管機關當小孩的阿我先騙到了騙到了以後我後續要怎麼處理修改契約、變更契約生態熱區不用保留"},{"start":12095.282,"end":12111.804,"text":"手法一模一樣部長您看不出來嗎?可能這兩個案情不太一樣齁不太一樣那這個我回去再瞭解委員在部長您需要多少時間?這個我一個禮拜應該就可以瞭解一下一個禮拜請經濟部給我書面報告這件事要怎麼處理可以嗎?好可以沒問題"},{"start":12118.032,"end":12140.643,"text":"好謝謝那我們接下來請李博義委員請做詢答那我們中午不休息一直到我們會議的完整結束謝謝謝謝我們請部長休息後請那個請產業人區管理局局長陳局長"},{"start":12146.411,"end":12169.719,"text":"楊局長局長你好今天審定今天是做這個經濟作業基金的這些報告那其實我在4月9號的時候其實我有到我們的男子產業園區那去做一個協調會這個局長應該有掌握那局長知道後續我們這個產業園區要做的事情是什麼嗎"},{"start":12170.439,"end":12191.025,"text":"向委員報告委員那一天的結論的部分第一個就是請臺電公司規劃一下就是說大用電戶161KV的因為今天臺電來參與的是副總是許副總那因為當天是陳副總陳副總對這個電網的這一些業務比較熟悉所以我沒有請臺電我沒有請臺電上來總經理那總經理聽一下第二個結論的部分就是"},{"start":12199.167,"end":12220.714,"text":"未來園區內廠商需電的量的部分請我們跟廠商這邊多多的瞭解我們來講第一個結論第一個結論就是要請台電請我們園區管理局跟台電把161伏特也就是地下的比較穩定的電源可以拉到園區來"},{"start":12222.375,"end":12250.777,"text":"目前只有第二園區的日月光它目前已經有深設一個但是第一園區可能我們要園區管理局這邊協助台電把空間找出來非常多的廠商當天包含華泰、國巨等等日月光等等都有參與這個會議那當然這個會議也釐清了很多我們用電的這些問題包含可能秀一下這個也跟讓總經理清楚那天陳副總來說明的"},{"start":12252.378,"end":12272.949,"text":"我們外在可能會影響到園區用電會跟民生用電有稍微有重疊的部分目前都在整理但是確實廠商需要的是更穩定的這些高壓用電那這高壓用電需要園區管理局跟台電共同來籌設也必須要台電來做這個重大的投資"},{"start":12273.829,"end":12297.607,"text":"那這一方面是不是請總經理當天帶回來之後現在已經經過十幾天了有沒有相關的規劃跟計劃跟委員報告因為主要是這三個便利店所供應的範圍有園區裡面也有園區外面的一般民間所以它的接線的方式的複雜度比較高那我們是希望這裡面的園區能夠整合成"},{"start":12298.007,"end":12327.082,"text":"用一個161的特高壓的電然後直接給這些用電比較大的業者然後呢我們再把這個剛剛講的那幾個變電所再整理一下一些重要的用戶我們把他的這個用電啊其中在某幾個變電所供進去園區就是園區內的用電園區用園區外的用電就讓園區外的變電所總之我請教你一個外接161的這個輸出電路齁在園區裡面要籌設的話目前日月光公司自己申辦一個"},{"start":12327.722,"end":12351.58,"text":"那如果其他園區需要合併起來籌設的話,臺電能不能主動來提供這個評估跟服務?我們會協助業者來做這件事。還是要業者?對,因為這個是一個土地問題。就是他3000瓦、5000瓦這樣加起來不到這個,但是確實是要超過10家的話,確實是需要這個穩定的電路。那這一方面還是要園區管理局還是要臺電一起來做這件事情。"},{"start":12352.841,"end":12353.101,"text":"原區有什麼困難?"},{"start":12362.791,"end":12391.35,"text":"原區現在正在盤點就是上次委員有會議結論之後我們也正在盤點那我們現在尋找的部分大概就是我們因為委員知道就是原區開發已經56年了所以原區的空地比較少我們會找綠地綠地的部分這個就是空地有困難之外接電也有困難第二點我對於南梓的這個第三第三園區的這個進度我也持續關心那再請管理園區這邊再給我一些進度的報告謝謝是"},{"start":12395.652,"end":12403.915,"text":"陳婷菲委員、陳婷菲、陳婷菲委員不在現場羅敏財委員、羅敏財、羅敏財、羅敏財委員不在現場何新淳委員、何新淳、何新淳委員不在現場陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在現場"},{"start":12417.639,"end":12431.15,"text":"登記發言委員除了不在場之外其餘都已經發言完畢,詢答結束,我們有參議員委員、陳昭明委員、陳廷飛委員所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報,書面質詢"},{"start":12433.752,"end":12449.303,"text":"以及未及答覆的部分請相關單位於一週之內以書面答覆並複製本會各位同仁針對於討論事項所列的四個基金預算案如果有修正動議或者是相關的提案請於4月25日"},{"start":12451.144,"end":12468.351,"text":"星期四中午12點以前送經濟委員會辦公室一例後續的一個會診預時不再收案那麼我們今天本日的議程所列的討論事項尋答結束令定期進行審查現在散會謝謝"},{"start":12480.728,"end":12480.91,"text":"對,就是這樣"},{"start":12493.523,"end":12512.558,"text":"公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈"},{"start":12514.659,"end":12537.763,"text":"第11屆第1會期經濟部主管：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟部主管：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12545.054,"end":12551.386,"text":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會第3次全體委員會"}]}},{"id":"15824","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15824","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d0a0e131ea932df620fbe320b46af75463be8d109af184be4c238b32b872d91585ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:30:13+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:02:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":12707,"委員發言時間":"08:30:13 - 12:02:00","影片長度":"03:31:47","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":696.4115937500001,"end":700.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1788.8822187500002,"end":1838.7984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1840.0640937500002,"end":1841.7853437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1842.4940937500003,"end":1844.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1844.8059687500001,"end":1879.9903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1886.1834687500002,"end":2111.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2114.85659375,"end":2118.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2124.34034375,"end":2177.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2178.0703437500006,"end":2286.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2287.2684687500005,"end":2299.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2305.0378437500003,"end":2335.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2336.0372187500006,"end":2339.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2339.7665937500005,"end":2371.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2372.2509687500005,"end":2375.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2375.33909375,"end":2412.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2412.95346875,"end":2420.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2421.3740937500006,"end":2438.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2438.9747187500006,"end":2439.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2440.30784375,"end":2466.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2467.1728437500005,"end":2495.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2496.7715937500006,"end":2497.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2497.9697187500005,"end":2507.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2507.52096875,"end":2511.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2511.7059687500005,"end":2531.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2532.22596875,"end":2543.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2544.03846875,"end":2549.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2549.9784687500005,"end":2558.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2558.87159375,"end":2569.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2570.38034375,"end":2592.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2593.33034375,"end":2593.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2594.7478437500004,"end":2600.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2600.2997187500005,"end":2610.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2610.52596875,"end":2615.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2616.3984687500006,"end":2636.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2637.1884687500005,"end":2639.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2639.9559687500005,"end":2653.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2654.0634687500005,"end":2655.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2656.00409375,"end":2659.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2659.93596875,"end":2664.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2665.23471875,"end":2669.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2669.5547187500006,"end":2675.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2676.45659375,"end":2680.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2680.7597187500005,"end":2681.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2681.8565937500007,"end":2689.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2690.6315937500003,"end":2701.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2701.4315937500005,"end":2716.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2716.3659687500003,"end":2734.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2735.5528437500006,"end":2771.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2772.0028437500005,"end":2772.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2772.7115937500002,"end":2773.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2778.8203437500006,"end":2782.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2784.1865937500006,"end":2787.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2784.8953437500004,"end":2785.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2789.6034687500005,"end":2809.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2810.3428437500006,"end":2823.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2823.5222187500003,"end":2823.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2825.12534375,"end":2853.8972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2833.56284375,"end":2833.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2845.72971875,"end":2846.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2853.8972187500003,"end":2869.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2869.96221875,"end":2905.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2905.6865937500006,"end":2923.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2920.7390937500004,"end":2924.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2924.8397187500004,"end":2998.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2999.24159375,"end":3010.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3010.9697187500005,"end":3047.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3047.03159375,"end":3049.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3050.7947187500004,"end":3054.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3055.3847187500005,"end":3058.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3060.0084687500002,"end":3062.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3062.87721875,"end":3084.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3085.86096875,"end":3098.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3098.75346875,"end":3120.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3121.0284687500007,"end":3121.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3121.7878437500003,"end":3132.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3123.7115937500002,"end":3123.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3123.88034375,"end":3123.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3123.9647187500004,"end":3125.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3126.4284687500003,"end":3127.5759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3132.4697187500005,"end":3132.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3132.5878437500005,"end":3148.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3132.92534375,"end":3132.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3149.00721875,"end":3152.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3153.1415937500005,"end":3154.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3154.55909375,"end":3155.6053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3156.01034375,"end":3158.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3158.64284375,"end":3165.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3161.07284375,"end":3161.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3161.4609687500006,"end":3161.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3165.9665937500004,"end":3167.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3167.9747187500006,"end":3174.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3172.86846875,"end":3178.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3178.79159375,"end":3180.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3180.6647187500002,"end":3196.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3196.8815937500003,"end":3206.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3206.73659375,"end":3247.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3247.48971875,"end":3247.8947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3248.5359687500004,"end":3249.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3249.41346875,"end":3264.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3264.9215937500003,"end":3267.3009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3268.1447187500007,"end":3269.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3269.79846875,"end":3271.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3271.6209687500004,"end":3272.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3272.80221875,"end":3272.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3273.7472187500007,"end":3285.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3277.7803437500006,"end":3277.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3285.32346875,"end":3299.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3300.2072187500007,"end":3302.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3302.8565937500007,"end":3313.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3313.5553437500002,"end":3328.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3328.8947187500007,"end":3328.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3328.91159375,"end":3335.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3337.4334687500004,"end":3338.5978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3339.5597187500007,"end":3340.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3341.26409375,"end":3341.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3342.64784375,"end":3343.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3343.8797187500004,"end":3347.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3348.67221875,"end":3349.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3349.39784375,"end":3352.0978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3354.1397187500006,"end":3354.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3354.88221875,"end":3356.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3356.6034687500005,"end":3356.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3356.62034375,"end":3356.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3356.70471875,"end":3356.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3357.0759687500004,"end":3384.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3385.02096875,"end":3386.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3386.4215937500003,"end":3391.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3391.2478437500004,"end":3394.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3395.1122187500005,"end":3395.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3396.36096875,"end":3397.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3398.38596875,"end":3398.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3399.36471875,"end":3419.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3421.18409375,"end":3440.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3441.3497187500006,"end":3441.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3441.36659375,"end":3441.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3441.3834687500002,"end":3441.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3441.7547187500004,"end":3441.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3441.92346875,"end":3442.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3445.1297187500004,"end":3445.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3446.42909375,"end":3446.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3447.8465937500005,"end":3449.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3455.7947187500004,"end":3460.0978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3460.3847187500005,"end":3460.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3460.9753437500003,"end":3460.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3460.9922187500006,"end":3462.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3463.8272187500006,"end":3464.7384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3464.80596875,"end":3502.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3502.72409375,"end":3528.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3528.76221875,"end":3566.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3567.01784375,"end":3569.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3569.0428437500004,"end":3577.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3578.2734687500006,"end":3586.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3587.3522187500002,"end":3592.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3591.97596875,"end":3592.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3593.71409375,"end":3593.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3595.4522187500006,"end":3595.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3596.14409375,"end":3597.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3597.08909375,"end":3598.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3598.5234687500006,"end":3599.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3599.2997187500005,"end":3636.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3636.15471875,"end":3693.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3693.10784375,"end":3693.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3693.1247187500003,"end":3750.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3750.66846875,"end":3751.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3751.7653437500003,"end":3754.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3754.33034375,"end":3757.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3758.12721875,"end":3763.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3762.0253437500005,"end":3766.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3766.3622187500005,"end":3768.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3767.7628437500007,"end":3768.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3768.87659375,"end":3883.9640937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3883.9640937500008,"end":3886.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3885.9890937500004,"end":3887.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3887.8115937500006,"end":3933.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3891.08534375,"end":3891.1359687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3891.1359687500008,"end":3891.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3933.52596875,"end":3965.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3965.0147187500006,"end":3997.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3997.9715937500005,"end":4021.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4019.6559687500003,"end":4019.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4019.7403437500006,"end":4019.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4022.00159375,"end":4040.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4039.2140937500008,"end":4040.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4043.73659375,"end":4047.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4060.93221875,"end":4063.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4063.98659375,"end":4064.9484687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4068.20534375,"end":4068.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4069.25159375,"end":4118.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4118.577218750001,"end":4167.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4168.4090937500005,"end":4176.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4176.795968750001,"end":4179.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4177.0322187500005,"end":4177.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4177.2684687500005,"end":4177.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4177.47096875,"end":4179.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4180.305968750001,"end":4181.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4182.702218750001,"end":4183.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4183.74846875,"end":4184.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4184.794718749999,"end":4242.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4242.89534375,"end":4247.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4246.60784375,"end":4304.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4304.32034375,"end":4304.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4304.50596875,"end":4305.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4305.029093749999,"end":4305.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4305.58596875,"end":4306.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4305.687218749999,"end":4307.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4307.897843750001,"end":4314.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4317.179093750001,"end":4318.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4318.073468750001,"end":4440.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4442.40846875,"end":4443.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4444.770968750001,"end":4448.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4448.939093749999,"end":4453.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4453.444718750001,"end":4560.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4562.1365937499995,"end":4568.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4568.31284375,"end":4665.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4568.4647187499995,"end":4570.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4570.47284375,"end":4570.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4574.97846875,"end":4575.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4575.06284375,"end":4575.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4577.96534375,"end":4578.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4665.698468750001,"end":4674.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4674.085343750001,"end":4681.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4681.08846875,"end":4681.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4694.419718749999,"end":4696.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4700.477843750001,"end":4702.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4702.41846875,"end":4702.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4703.22846875,"end":4703.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4703.97096875,"end":4704.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4706.2997187500005,"end":4706.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4707.02534375,"end":4731.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4732.0340937500005,"end":4734.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4733.97471875,"end":4733.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4734.00846875,"end":4798.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4799.17971875,"end":4816.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4817.30346875,"end":4837.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4836.321593750001,"end":4844.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4839.52784375,"end":4840.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4844.2528437500005,"end":4852.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4851.91409375,"end":4853.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4853.12909375,"end":4854.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4854.0740937499995,"end":4868.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4870.442843750001,"end":4871.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4871.809718750001,"end":4873.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4873.581593750001,"end":4874.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4874.03721875,"end":4878.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4878.795968750001,"end":4879.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4879.31909375,"end":4915.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4916.1572187500005,"end":4924.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4925.77596875,"end":4935.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4936.440968750001,"end":4939.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4939.529093749999,"end":4945.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4940.8622187500005,"end":4941.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4945.41846875,"end":4948.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4949.569718750001,"end":4959.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4960.75784375,"end":4964.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4964.993468750001,"end":4972.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4971.743468750001,"end":4976.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4973.12721875,"end":4977.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4977.34596875,"end":4983.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4979.2528437500005,"end":4979.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4982.340968750001,"end":4992.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4992.702218750001,"end":5009.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4996.14471875,"end":4997.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4998.99659375,"end":4999.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5003.31659375,"end":5007.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5008.85159375,"end":5009.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5009.712218750001,"end":5046.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5046.921593749999,"end":5062.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5062.66596875,"end":5065.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5064.8934687500005,"end":5067.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5067.07034375,"end":5099.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5070.20909375,"end":5070.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5100.044093750001,"end":5109.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5109.747218750001,"end":5160.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5160.979718750001,"end":5183.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5183.30534375,"end":5191.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5191.79346875,"end":5194.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5194.13909375,"end":5199.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5198.425343750001,"end":5227.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5202.72846875,"end":5204.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5227.93971875,"end":5234.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5233.154093749999,"end":5235.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5234.74034375,"end":5238.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5238.52034375,"end":5247.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5247.58221875,"end":5251.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5251.14284375,"end":5252.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5252.897843750001,"end":5258.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5258.2303437499995,"end":5281.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5281.770968750001,"end":5286.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5285.41596875,"end":5288.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5287.913468750001,"end":5292.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5290.69784375,"end":5307.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5306.847218750001,"end":5308.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5308.93971875,"end":5317.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5317.022843750001,"end":5323.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5318.794718749999,"end":5320.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5322.10221875,"end":5323.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5323.2665937500005,"end":5338.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5335.5009687500005,"end":5335.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5335.56846875,"end":5335.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5335.7372187500005,"end":5335.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5335.75409375,"end":5335.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5338.97721875,"end":5339.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5339.02784375,"end":5339.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5339.567843750001,"end":5340.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5340.85034375,"end":5344.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5344.3603437500005,"end":5345.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5349.52409375,"end":5349.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5349.557843750001,"end":5351.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5355.177218750001,"end":5356.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5356.5947187500005,"end":5356.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5356.628468750001,"end":5357.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5362.36596875,"end":5364.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5365.2684687500005,"end":5366.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5366.12909375,"end":5367.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5367.9178437499995,"end":5372.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5372.474093750001,"end":5374.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5374.98846875,"end":5378.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5378.616593750001,"end":5378.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5379.34221875,"end":5384.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5384.35409375,"end":5391.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5391.644093750001,"end":5394.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5395.2215937500005,"end":5397.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5397.9384687500005,"end":5403.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5403.30471875,"end":5404.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5404.772843750001,"end":5409.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5409.514718750001,"end":5421.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5421.0740937499995,"end":5423.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5423.40284375,"end":5427.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5428.93784375,"end":5429.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5430.10221875,"end":5434.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5432.987843750001,"end":5433.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5435.198468750001,"end":5440.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5439.029093749999,"end":5439.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5439.552218750001,"end":5439.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5440.00784375,"end":5440.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5440.9022187499995,"end":5446.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5446.79159375,"end":5446.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5446.8084687499995,"end":5447.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5447.77034375,"end":5472.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5472.694718750001,"end":5475.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5476.10346875,"end":5478.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5478.58409375,"end":5480.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5480.92971875,"end":5482.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5482.1278437500005,"end":5502.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5503.08659375,"end":5504.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5505.21284375,"end":5508.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5508.85784375,"end":5509.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5509.65096875,"end":5525.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5526.745343750001,"end":5535.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5535.925343750001,"end":5552.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5552.243468750001,"end":5560.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5561.45721875,"end":5565.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5566.536593750001,"end":5571.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5572.763468749999,"end":5574.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5575.19346875,"end":5575.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5575.9697187500005,"end":5581.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5582.02784375,"end":5599.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5599.628468750001,"end":5601.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5601.029093749999,"end":5601.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5601.29909375,"end":5601.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5601.33284375,"end":5602.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5601.43409375,"end":5613.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5613.550343750001,"end":5625.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5625.784718750001,"end":5631.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5631.606593750001,"end":5655.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5633.54721875,"end":5633.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5641.24221875,"end":5641.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5641.2928437499995,"end":5641.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5641.680968750001,"end":5641.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5654.26971875,"end":5655.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5655.974093750001,"end":5656.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5656.22721875,"end":5656.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5658.30284375,"end":5662.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5662.960343750001,"end":5663.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5664.24284375,"end":5666.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5665.3397187499995,"end":5665.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5666.655968749999,"end":5667.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5668.073468750001,"end":5669.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5670.52034375,"end":5671.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5671.397843750001,"end":5675.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5676.02159375,"end":5707.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5707.8309687500005,"end":5712.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5715.374093750001,"end":5728.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5715.694718750001,"end":5715.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5715.76221875,"end":5715.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5727.8447187500005,"end":5729.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5729.83596875,"end":5743.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5743.3865937499995,"end":5747.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5748.465968750001,"end":5765.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5766.404093749999,"end":5768.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5769.5428437499995,"end":5772.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5772.225968750001,"end":5777.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5777.67659375,"end":5783.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5785.10159375,"end":5787.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5788.155968749999,"end":5826.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5789.08409375,"end":5789.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5789.16846875,"end":5789.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5790.53534375,"end":5790.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5791.66596875,"end":5791.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5827.42409375,"end":5834.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5835.085343750001,"end":5868.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5868.700343750001,"end":5874.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5874.85971875,"end":5879.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5880.225968750001,"end":5894.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5895.00846875,"end":5901.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5901.640343749999,"end":5902.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5902.7372187500005,"end":5904.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5905.4540937500005,"end":5932.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5932.50471875,"end":5932.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5932.52159375,"end":5932.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5932.639718750001,"end":5932.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5932.673468750001,"end":5932.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5932.6903437500005,"end":5932.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5932.74096875,"end":5932.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5933.247218750001,"end":5956.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5956.56846875,"end":5976.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5977.71284375,"end":5995.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5997.49034375,"end":5998.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5997.7772187499995,"end":6007.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6008.340968750001,"end":6008.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6008.91471875,"end":6009.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6009.4715937500005,"end":6010.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6011.22659375,"end":6011.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6012.930968750001,"end":6013.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6014.382218750001,"end":6016.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6022.7353437500005,"end":6025.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6029.519093750001,"end":6030.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6030.44721875,"end":6031.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6032.387843750001,"end":6085.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6086.55659375,"end":6096.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6096.546593749999,"end":6188.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6098.92596875,"end":6099.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6188.78534375,"end":6220.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6194.995343750001,"end":6195.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6220.965968750001,"end":6241.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6241.350968750001,"end":6265.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6264.99284375,"end":6268.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6267.929093750001,"end":6280.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6277.075343750001,"end":6277.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6278.54346875,"end":6279.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6280.51784375,"end":6327.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6327.362843750001,"end":6345.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6345.554093750001,"end":6393.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6393.95159375,"end":6448.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6448.98096875,"end":6482.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6483.11909375,"end":6504.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6504.58409375,"end":6509.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6505.22534375,"end":6506.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6509.03909375,"end":6514.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6514.92846875,"end":6523.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6523.51784375,"end":6529.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6530.048468750001,"end":6532.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6532.124093750001,"end":6541.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6534.25034375,"end":6535.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6542.856593750001,"end":6555.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6555.360968750001,"end":6560.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6558.76971875,"end":6559.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6559.343468749999,"end":6559.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6561.2840937500005,"end":6584.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6585.58409375,"end":6586.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6590.764718750001,"end":6593.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6598.915343750001,"end":6600.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6600.72096875,"end":6602.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6605.2772187499995,"end":6605.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6606.86346875,"end":6607.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6608.247218750001,"end":6668.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6635.6522187499995,"end":6635.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6668.710343750001,"end":6674.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6675.15659375,"end":6755.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6679.071593750001,"end":6679.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6755.65034375,"end":6800.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6767.31096875,"end":6767.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6772.45784375,"end":6772.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6774.128468750001,"end":6774.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6800.87534375,"end":6803.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6803.45721875,"end":6804.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6803.50784375,"end":6805.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6805.75221875,"end":6806.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6806.5115937499995,"end":6807.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6807.67596875,"end":6821.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6821.96909375,"end":6822.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6822.28971875,"end":6851.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6851.2303437499995,"end":6884.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6866.13096875,"end":6866.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6871.3622187500005,"end":6871.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6876.30659375,"end":6876.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6876.323468750001,"end":6877.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6884.45721875,"end":6884.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6885.452843749999,"end":7034.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7034.610968750001,"end":7089.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7046.40659375,"end":7046.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7046.423468750001,"end":7046.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7046.474093750001,"end":7046.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7051.97534375,"end":7052.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7086.29909375,"end":7086.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7089.70784375,"end":7093.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7093.487843750001,"end":7094.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7094.97284375,"end":7098.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7098.887843750001,"end":7208.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7208.67659375,"end":7221.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7220.48909375,"end":7220.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7220.50596875,"end":7235.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7235.87909375,"end":7235.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7235.895968750001,"end":7237.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7238.17409375,"end":7241.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7245.919718749999,"end":7246.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7246.5947187500005,"end":7257.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7258.592843750001,"end":7260.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7260.0272187499995,"end":7298.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7299.919718749999,"end":7306.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7306.872218750001,"end":7308.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7307.04096875,"end":7307.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7307.49659375,"end":7307.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7308.25596875,"end":7413.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7414.669718749999,"end":7437.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7437.788468750001,"end":7443.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7444.47096875,"end":7447.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7446.15846875,"end":7446.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7447.94721875,"end":7458.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7459.1522187499995,"end":7471.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7471.75784375,"end":7489.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7490.92784375,"end":7493.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7493.59409375,"end":7508.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7508.78159375,"end":7508.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7508.83221875,"end":7508.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7508.88284375,"end":7512.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7508.899718750001,"end":7509.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7509.929093750001,"end":7509.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7510.55346875,"end":7511.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7512.62909375,"end":7522.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7523.5809687500005,"end":7575.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7576.28159375,"end":7580.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7580.618468750001,"end":7581.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7584.735968750001,"end":7584.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7584.98909375,"end":7614.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7585.00596875,"end":7585.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7614.95909375,"end":7699.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7699.89096875,"end":7726.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7727.430968750001,"end":7784.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7784.45159375,"end":7785.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7785.19409375,"end":7785.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7787.050343750001,"end":7804.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7808.0428437499995,"end":7811.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7811.282843750001,"end":7813.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7811.654093749999,"end":7812.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7812.784718750001,"end":7814.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7813.98284375,"end":7815.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7815.265343750001,"end":7815.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7815.417218750001,"end":7815.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7815.43409375,"end":7815.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7815.48471875,"end":7815.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7816.345343750001,"end":7817.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7817.27346875,"end":7817.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7817.30721875,"end":7850.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7851.00659375,"end":7856.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7852.8290937500005,"end":7853.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7856.27159375,"end":7859.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7859.562218750001,"end":7867.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7866.5653437500005,"end":7868.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7868.6747187500005,"end":7875.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7874.64846875,"end":7908.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7875.86346875,"end":7876.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7908.550343750001,"end":7917.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7918.810343749999,"end":7919.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7919.36721875,"end":7922.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7919.620343750001,"end":7920.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7922.708468750001,"end":7930.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7930.28534375,"end":7980.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7932.360968750001,"end":7932.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7980.825968749999,"end":7981.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7981.12971875,"end":7982.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7983.67784375,"end":7986.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7989.14534375,"end":8037.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7990.05659375,"end":7990.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8037.67784375,"end":8041.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8042.36909375,"end":8043.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8044.14096875,"end":8044.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8044.42784375,"end":8070.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8070.702218750001,"end":8089.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8089.93971875,"end":8094.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8094.76596875,"end":8111.607218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8111.607218750001,"end":8112.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8112.0965937500005,"end":8224.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8224.973468750002,"end":8228.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8229.90096875,"end":8239.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8239.38471875,"end":8257.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8257.79534375,"end":8269.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8268.696593749999,"end":8268.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8269.33784375,"end":8299.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8299.527218750001,"end":8299.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8299.83096875,"end":8302.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8301.062843750002,"end":8301.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8301.13034375,"end":8301.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8301.51846875,"end":8301.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8304.25221875,"end":8309.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8314.02284375,"end":8317.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8317.54971875,"end":8319.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8318.832218750002,"end":8320.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8321.22846875,"end":8388.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8388.00284375,"end":8419.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8420.01471875,"end":8448.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8448.719093750002,"end":8454.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8454.13596875,"end":8454.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8454.321593750003,"end":8454.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8454.43971875,"end":8461.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8461.61159375,"end":8482.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8482.890968750002,"end":8482.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8484.08909375,"end":8484.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8484.105968750002,"end":8525.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8493.37034375,"end":8493.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8494.41659375,"end":8494.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8497.04909375,"end":8497.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8497.84221875,"end":8497.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8514.83534375,"end":8515.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8525.027843750002,"end":8534.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8525.26409375,"end":8526.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8534.96721875,"end":8535.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8535.034718750001,"end":8542.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8536.03034375,"end":8536.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8543.45534375,"end":8569.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8570.387843750003,"end":8579.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8579.36534375,"end":8579.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8579.972843750002,"end":8591.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8591.02596875,"end":8633.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8635.019093750001,"end":8646.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8647.86096875,"end":8683.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8683.281593750002,"end":8728.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8729.40096875,"end":8729.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8730.582218750002,"end":8732.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8732.82659375,"end":8733.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8734.429718750001,"end":8860.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8861.07659375,"end":8877.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8877.614093750002,"end":8910.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8910.95909375,"end":8922.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8924.813468750002,"end":8929.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9237.43971875,"end":9241.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9247.125968750002,"end":9249.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9251.074718750002,"end":9252.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9255.394718750002,"end":9256.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9256.137218750002,"end":9291.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9291.60846875,"end":9300.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9301.09221875,"end":9301.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9302.712218750003,"end":9306.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9303.977843750003,"end":9304.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9306.930968750003,"end":9308.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9308.16284375,"end":9319.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9319.95846875,"end":9349.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9349.38846875,"end":9364.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9361.26846875,"end":9361.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9363.934718750003,"end":9379.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9379.054718750001,"end":9384.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9382.227218750002,"end":9384.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9384.87659375,"end":9431.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9389.36534375,"end":9389.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9431.50221875,"end":9450.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9452.359718750002,"end":9461.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9460.375343750002,"end":9461.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9461.742218750001,"end":9483.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9480.64221875,"end":9481.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9483.61221875,"end":9490.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9490.81784375,"end":9500.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9493.36596875,"end":9495.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9497.48346875,"end":9497.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9499.27221875,"end":9505.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9506.22471875,"end":9514.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9508.097843750002,"end":9508.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9515.387843750003,"end":9516.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9515.50596875,"end":9518.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9518.172218750002,"end":9535.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9533.258468750002,"end":9542.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9542.860343750002,"end":9547.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9543.09659375,"end":9545.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9546.20159375,"end":9552.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9552.95159375,"end":9556.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9554.352218750002,"end":9554.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9555.820343750001,"end":9577.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9578.280968750001,"end":9609.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9609.16221875,"end":9620.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9612.28409375,"end":9613.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9619.28721875,"end":9723.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9724.35096875,"end":9740.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9740.98971875,"end":9741.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9742.710968750001,"end":9748.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9743.824718750002,"end":9744.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9749.91659375,"end":9754.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9750.254093750002,"end":9750.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9755.67096875,"end":9760.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9758.99534375,"end":9798.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9799.259093750003,"end":9807.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9805.620968750001,"end":9837.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9810.109718750002,"end":9813.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9838.324718750002,"end":9851.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9840.04596875,"end":9840.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9842.594093750002,"end":9844.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9844.821593750003,"end":9845.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9846.47534375,"end":9846.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9849.394718750002,"end":9849.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9850.06971875,"end":9865.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9865.78034375,"end":9866.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9866.08409375,"end":9871.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9873.03659375,"end":9873.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9873.964718750001,"end":9877.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9880.883468750002,"end":9882.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9881.035343750002,"end":9882.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9882.18284375,"end":9882.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9882.97596875,"end":9883.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9883.16159375,"end":9883.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9887.093468750001,"end":9887.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9896.796593750001,"end":9898.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9899.378468750001,"end":9900.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9904.74471875,"end":9905.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9905.47034375,"end":9927.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9928.707218750002,"end":9934.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9933.95534375,"end":9937.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9934.815968750001,"end":9935.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9937.144718750002,"end":9942.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9942.34221875,"end":9942.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9942.359093750001,"end":9942.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9944.434718750003,"end":9959.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9951.94409375,"end":9952.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9959.58846875,"end":9967.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9966.97971875,"end":9974.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9972.480968750002,"end":9972.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9974.72534375,"end":9988.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9979.99034375,"end":9980.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9982.89284375,"end":9983.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9988.360343750002,"end":9990.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9990.63846875,"end":9993.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9991.515968750002,"end":9991.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9993.827843750001,"end":10040.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10041.668468750002,"end":10066.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10067.09909375,"end":10074.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10074.81096875,"end":10088.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10088.42909375,"end":10128.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10088.63159375,"end":10089.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10104.747218750003,"end":10104.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10104.96659375,"end":10105.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10128.96284375,"end":10129.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10129.03034375,"end":10140.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10135.628468750001,"end":10135.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10135.645343750002,"end":10136.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10137.484718750002,"end":10137.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10137.50159375,"end":10138.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10141.230968750002,"end":10159.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10159.590968750003,"end":10174.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10174.52534375,"end":10209.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10209.65909375,"end":10211.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10211.430968750003,"end":10215.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10215.902843750002,"end":10228.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10229.250968750002,"end":10229.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10229.53784375,"end":10231.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10230.887843750003,"end":10231.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10231.22534375,"end":10235.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10235.32596875,"end":10235.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10235.37659375,"end":10235.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10235.59596875,"end":10241.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10241.62034375,"end":10241.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10241.839718750001,"end":10248.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10243.425968750002,"end":10244.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10248.25221875,"end":10252.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10252.94346875,"end":10273.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10271.387843750003,"end":10305.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10305.62721875,"end":10306.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10305.84659375,"end":10306.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10306.74096875,"end":10306.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10306.825343750003,"end":10331.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10332.930968750003,"end":10353.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10354.21034375,"end":10388.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10360.25159375,"end":10360.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10360.26846875,"end":10362.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10389.462218750003,"end":10393.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10393.664093750001,"end":10397.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10398.254093750002,"end":10405.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10400.24534375,"end":10401.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10401.03846875,"end":10401.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10401.848468750002,"end":10401.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10401.86534375,"end":10402.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10402.793468750002,"end":10402.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10402.995968750001,"end":10403.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10403.012843750003,"end":10403.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10404.07596875,"end":10404.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10404.109718750002,"end":10404.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10404.649718750003,"end":10404.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10405.03784375,"end":10405.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10405.18971875,"end":10405.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10405.206593750001,"end":10409.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10405.746593750002,"end":10405.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10405.81409375,"end":10406.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10406.57346875,"end":10406.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10406.62409375,"end":10407.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10407.180968750003,"end":10407.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10409.10471875,"end":10426.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10425.321593750003,"end":10435.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10426.60409375,"end":10427.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10429.219718750002,"end":10429.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10435.649093750002,"end":10435.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10435.98659375,"end":10438.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10436.762843750003,"end":10440.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10440.57659375,"end":10440.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10440.610343750002,"end":10440.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10440.72846875,"end":10441.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10444.06971875,"end":10447.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10448.102843750003,"end":10449.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10450.617218750001,"end":10453.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10457.65409375,"end":10461.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10462.379093750002,"end":10463.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10466.51346875,"end":10530.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10530.300968750002,"end":10535.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10535.363468750002,"end":10549.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10539.44721875,"end":10539.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10545.960968750001,"end":10546.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10549.11659375,"end":10549.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10549.403468750003,"end":10549.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10549.69034375,"end":10549.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10549.757843750001,"end":10600.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10600.68659375,"end":10612.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10609.765343750001,"end":10612.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10612.22909375,"end":10632.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10632.47909375,"end":10639.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10639.06034375,"end":10644.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10641.996593750002,"end":10657.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10658.500343750002,"end":10665.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10665.942218750002,"end":10669.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10670.19471875,"end":10682.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10682.395343750002,"end":10693.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10694.44409375,"end":10694.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10694.460968750001,"end":10694.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10694.984093750001,"end":10695.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10695.01784375,"end":10695.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10695.102218750002,"end":10695.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10695.11909375,"end":10695.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10695.203468750002,"end":10695.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10695.23721875,"end":10695.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10695.254093750002,"end":10695.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10695.304718750001,"end":10695.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10695.524093750002,"end":10695.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10695.65909375,"end":10695.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10695.96284375,"end":10698.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10699.40534375,"end":10702.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10702.34159375,"end":10712.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10714.137218750002,"end":10716.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10716.938468750002,"end":10717.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10717.562843750002,"end":10725.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10726.08471875,"end":10738.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10738.335968750001,"end":10767.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10767.394718750002,"end":10881.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10883.460968750001,"end":10888.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10889.907218750002,"end":10891.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10892.25284375,"end":10896.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10897.349093750003,"end":10907.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10907.997218750003,"end":10928.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10928.85471875,"end":10930.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10930.035968750002,"end":10938.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10938.23721875,"end":10942.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10942.844093750002,"end":10946.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10946.809718750003,"end":10952.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10952.378468750001,"end":10956.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10956.141593750002,"end":10957.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10958.183468750001,"end":10962.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10963.262843750003,"end":10985.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10985.48721875,"end":10988.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10988.81159375,"end":10992.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10993.317218750002,"end":10995.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10995.81471875,"end":10997.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10998.210968750001,"end":11001.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11002.46346875,"end":11007.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11008.454093750002,"end":11015.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11015.49096875,"end":11018.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11018.882843750001,"end":11019.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11020.06409375,"end":11022.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11023.28721875,"end":11026.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11027.691593750002,"end":11030.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11030.50971875,"end":11032.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11032.754093750002,"end":11033.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11033.969093750002,"end":11037.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11037.934718750003,"end":11060.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11061.05346875,"end":11071.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11072.12346875,"end":11073.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11074.367843750002,"end":11077.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11077.152218750001,"end":11078.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11079.227843750003,"end":11081.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11082.02909375,"end":11084.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11084.745968750001,"end":11086.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11087.09159375,"end":11090.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11090.820968750002,"end":11096.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11096.79471875,"end":11097.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11098.27971875,"end":11108.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11108.809718750003,"end":11112.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11113.028468750003,"end":11115.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11115.812843750002,"end":11118.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11118.85034375,"end":11120.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11120.554718750001,"end":11129.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11129.29596875,"end":11133.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11133.61596875,"end":11138.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11138.813468750002,"end":11142.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11143.825343750003,"end":11146.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11150.676593750002,"end":11170.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11170.437218750001,"end":11176.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11176.360343750002,"end":11179.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11179.887218750002,"end":11192.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11193.72471875,"end":11193.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11193.79221875,"end":11193.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11193.89346875,"end":11194.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11194.500968750002,"end":11196.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11196.137843750003,"end":11196.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11196.964718750001,"end":11198.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11198.027843750002,"end":11198.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11198.21346875,"end":11198.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11198.702843750001,"end":11198.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11198.719718750002,"end":11200.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11200.37346875,"end":11201.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11201.031593750002,"end":11203.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11201.90909375,"end":11201.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11201.942843750003,"end":11201.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11201.976593750001,"end":11202.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11203.02284375,"end":11204.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11206.17846875,"end":11207.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11207.579093750002,"end":11210.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11210.835968750001,"end":11210.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11216.55659375,"end":11218.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11218.952843750001,"end":11220.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11220.117218750001,"end":11221.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11221.534718750001,"end":11222.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11222.00721875,"end":11222.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11222.024093750002,"end":11222.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11222.42909375,"end":11222.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11222.715968750003,"end":11222.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11227.255343750003,"end":11231.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11231.22096875,"end":11231.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11231.237843750001,"end":11234.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11234.96721875,"end":11235.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11236.469093750002,"end":11246.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11247.910343750002,"end":11258.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11258.153468750003,"end":11259.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11264.54909375,"end":11264.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11264.565968750001,"end":11270.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11271.012218750002,"end":11282.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11281.559093750002,"end":11281.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11284.49534375,"end":11286.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11296.98284375,"end":11297.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11297.87721875,"end":11300.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11300.89784375,"end":11302.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11302.602218750002,"end":11302.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11302.61909375,"end":11303.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11303.294093750003,"end":11303.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11307.64784375,"end":11308.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11308.440968750001,"end":11309.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11309.234093750001,"end":11309.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11309.85846875,"end":11310.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11310.972218750001,"end":11339.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11340.047843750002,"end":11342.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11342.832218750002,"end":11369.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11365.49534375,"end":11365.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11369.849093750003,"end":11426.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11426.54909375,"end":11426.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11426.582843750002,"end":11426.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11426.59971875,"end":11427.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11427.03846875,"end":11427.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11427.29159375,"end":11427.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11427.308468750001,"end":11427.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11427.34221875,"end":11428.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11428.38846875,"end":11431.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11431.81409375,"end":11619.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11619.953468750002,"end":11642.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11638.38096875,"end":11641.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11641.03034375,"end":11641.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11642.19471875,"end":11645.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11645.957843750002,"end":11645.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11646.227843750003,"end":11664.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11654.648468750001,"end":11654.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11656.184093750002,"end":11656.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11664.874718750001,"end":11667.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11667.675968750002,"end":11681.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11681.95221875,"end":11684.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11684.669093750003,"end":11685.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11686.727843750003,"end":11687.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11687.554718750001,"end":11689.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11693.76471875,"end":11701.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11701.004093750002,"end":11701.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11701.442843750003,"end":11703.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11702.860343750002,"end":11705.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11706.62346875,"end":11724.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11724.03846875,"end":11724.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11725.30409375,"end":11733.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11733.977843750003,"end":11735.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11736.32346875,"end":11744.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11745.68909375,"end":11746.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11747.32596875,"end":11753.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11753.82284375,"end":11755.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11756.08409375,"end":11776.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11777.532218750002,"end":11802.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11802.102218750002,"end":11802.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11802.355343750001,"end":11865.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11808.34596875,"end":11808.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11865.99096875,"end":11870.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11870.36159375,"end":11881.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11881.54971875,"end":11896.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11896.855343750001,"end":11957.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11957.774093750002,"end":11977.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11977.14659375,"end":11992.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11992.266593750002,"end":12000.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11996.856593750003,"end":12007.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12006.171593750001,"end":12010.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12008.51721875,"end":12015.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12012.972218750001,"end":12014.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12015.030968750001,"end":12017.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12019.165343750003,"end":12019.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12019.18221875,"end":12022.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12019.23284375,"end":12019.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12020.76846875,"end":12021.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12022.844093750002,"end":12022.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12022.962218750003,"end":12024.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12024.649718750003,"end":12025.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12026.94471875,"end":12035.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12033.812843750002,"end":12034.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12035.027843750002,"end":12041.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12036.31034375,"end":12036.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12042.38534375,"end":12044.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12046.536593750003,"end":12047.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12048.409718750001,"end":12051.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12058.41659375,"end":12060.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12061.015343750001,"end":12063.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12063.614093750002,"end":12065.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12065.47034375,"end":12066.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12067.17471875,"end":12067.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12068.74409375,"end":12078.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12080.18534375,"end":12080.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12080.82659375,"end":12082.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12081.214718750001,"end":12086.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12086.969093750002,"end":12094.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12093.297218750002,"end":12093.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12093.972218750001,"end":12094.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12094.512218750002,"end":12114.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12115.36971875,"end":12117.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12116.331593750001,"end":12117.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12119.63909375,"end":12132.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12131.60346875,"end":12141.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12141.42471875,"end":12151.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12152.74784375,"end":12154.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12154.890968750002,"end":12157.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12158.18159375,"end":12166.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12166.46721875,"end":12178.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12178.81971875,"end":12186.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12187.105343750001,"end":12191.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12192.285968750002,"end":12218.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12218.864093750002,"end":12220.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12220.450343750003,"end":12223.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12224.753468750001,"end":12225.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12225.52971875,"end":12228.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12228.38159375,"end":12231.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12232.27971875,"end":12232.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12234.16971875,"end":12234.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12236.987843750001,"end":12237.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12237.03846875,"end":12238.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12238.742843750002,"end":12239.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12240.784718750001,"end":12245.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12247.41659375,"end":12247.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12250.403468750003,"end":12250.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12251.297843750002,"end":12251.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12251.93909375,"end":12258.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12259.212218750003,"end":12267.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12268.695968750002,"end":12281.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12281.976593750001,"end":12284.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12285.43596875,"end":12292.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12292.962218750003,"end":12305.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12305.68596875,"end":12306.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12307.27221875,"end":12310.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12310.140968750002,"end":12310.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12310.883468750002,"end":12311.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12311.54159375,"end":12316.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12314.12346875,"end":12320.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12320.97471875,"end":12321.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12321.97034375,"end":12357.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12357.171593750001,"end":12362.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12363.11159375,"end":12374.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12364.27596875,"end":12365.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12369.23721875,"end":12369.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12375.34596875,"end":12377.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12377.894093750001,"end":12380.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12380.324093750001,"end":12380.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12380.61096875,"end":12380.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12380.847218750001,"end":12381.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12381.25221875,"end":12381.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12381.72471875,"end":12385.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12381.99471875,"end":12389.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12386.550968750002,"end":12387.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12390.22971875,"end":12394.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12391.714718750001,"end":12408.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12403.76346875,"end":12403.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12406.007843750001,"end":12406.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12406.024718750003,"end":12408.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12408.218468750001,"end":12408.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12408.79221875,"end":12415.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12415.660343750002,"end":12416.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12416.824718750002,"end":12417.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12417.617843750002,"end":12418.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12418.984718750002,"end":12425.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12424.40159375,"end":12424.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12426.004718750002,"end":12426.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12426.08909375,"end":12429.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12429.160343750002,"end":12431.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12431.23596875,"end":12434.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12435.10034375,"end":12445.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12446.00159375,"end":12450.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12450.372218750003,"end":12455.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12454.86096875,"end":12467.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12455.485343750002,"end":12456.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12465.644093750001,"end":12466.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12468.512843750003,"end":12470.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12470.554718750001,"end":12473.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12470.58846875,"end":12471.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12473.32221875,"end":12473.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12473.96346875,"end":12474.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12474.16596875,"end":12474.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12474.351593750001,"end":12474.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12474.469718750002,"end":12475.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12475.02659375,"end":12480.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12478.587218750003,"end":12479.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12481.472843750002,"end":12483.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12483.51471875,"end":12484.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12485.50596875,"end":12487.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12488.30721875,"end":12489.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12488.374718750001,"end":12496.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12497.655968750001,"end":12498.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12499.360343750002,"end":12500.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12501.520343750002,"end":12504.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12504.996593750002,"end":12516.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12517.26471875,"end":12517.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12517.770968750003,"end":12518.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12518.074718750002,"end":12525.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12525.972218750001,"end":12539.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12531.777218750001,"end":12542.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12542.83034375,"end":12548.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12548.753468750001,"end":12551.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12549.58034375,"end":12561.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12562.675343750001,"end":12563.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12564.34596875,"end":12569.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12570.555968750003,"end":12570.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12571.062218750001,"end":12573.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12573.390968750002,"end":12573.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12573.52596875,"end":12574.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12575.01096875,"end":12576.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12576.597218750001,"end":12581.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12579.364718750003,"end":12579.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12579.415343750003,"end":12579.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12579.820343750001,"end":12580.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12580.02284375,"end":12580.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12580.461593750002,"end":12580.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12581.474093750003,"end":12581.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12581.49096875,"end":12583.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12582.80721875,"end":12589.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12583.39784375,"end":12583.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12591.24471875,"end":12591.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12592.18971875,"end":12593.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12593.77596875,"end":12598.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12596.20596875,"end":12606.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12599.192843750003,"end":12600.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12607.07346875,"end":12611.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12607.79909375,"end":12609.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12610.364093750002,"end":12618.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12625.180343750002,"end":12627.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12629.11221875,"end":12666.405968750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1789.045,"end":1811.99,"text":"報告委員會 我們現在繼續開會那今天的議程有三個審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具《大學法第三十五條條文修正草案》案還有審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具《專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案》案還有第三個是審查國民體育法相關的法案共四案包括委員柯志恩等17人擬具《國民體育法第五條條文修正草案》案"},{"start":1815.471,"end":1838.638,"text":"熊等21人擬具《國民體育法第二十三條條文修正案》案。還有委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《國民體育法第二十三條條文修正案》案。還有委員何新淳等20人擬具《國民體育法部分條文修正案》案。那今天我們請進行詢答。那我們首先介紹在場的委員,紅孟楷委員。還有何新淳委員。"},{"start":1842.594,"end":1866.202,"text":"委員莊瑞好,那我們教育部的官員我們就是歡迎政次劉孟琦政次還有其他的委員其他的我們教育部的同仁我們就暫時不見我們就省略大家都非常熟了還有我們財政部的複稅署的王俊隆專門委員還有行政院主計總署的公務預算處的吳明修專門委員"},{"start":1867.342,"end":1879.638,"text":"還有金融監管委員會的保險局的王啟華專門委員,謝謝。好,那我們現在就開始請提案委員進行提案說明。我們首先請何欣淳委員。"},{"start":1887.029,"end":1910.401,"text":"謝謝昭委、柯委員本席提案有關國民體育法的修法版本有鑒於上次亞洲杯子格賽眾所矚目大家很關心台灣男男隊時能險的保障不足引發了社會關注本席認為不僅僅是國家代表隊的選手需要保險的保障我認為所有的學生選手都應該享有足夠的保障畢竟沒有學生選手哪有國手"},{"start":1915.984,"end":1918.545,"text":"僅要求主辦單位投保公共意外責任保險、健康保險或傷害保險。"},{"start":1940.855,"end":1955.102,"text":"投保健康保險或傷害保險者每個保險金額都不得低於三百萬所以我也知道這是我們體育署所設的一個保險保障的一個樓地板但是我們常見的賽前的一個熱身期間受傷"},{"start":1958.624,"end":1958.944,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":1979.253,"end":2007.043,"text":"一旦受傷是自己還有家庭帶來沉重的一個負擔所以有時候因為家庭環境或者是經濟因素不足以負荷可以進行及時的治療或後續的復健那這個將影響的是什麼這一個學生選手可能是未來的國手他的恢復的狀況跟未來的發展可能會受到嚴重的影響所以我提出新增第二十之一條只要是學生代表學校參加"},{"start":2008.544,"end":2009.845,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":2025.453,"end":2040.833,"text":"這部分分別則是參照現行的學生團體保險制度由教育部來訂定體育活動及運動訓練團體的保險費用費率這當然需要我們今天也一起出席練習的我們金管會的保險局"},{"start":2042.575,"end":2051.101,"text":"則要來一起來努力跨部會來合作。另外要設立保險費的審議會。保險費用由各級學校主管機關補助三分之一。其餘三分之二的保險費我認為應該由運動發展基金來支應。這個運動發展基金的設立本來就是為了國家來培育國手而沒有學生選手哪有國手。所以應該由中央我們的運動發展"},{"start":2070.333,"end":2074.358,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":2086.673,"end":2111.155,"text":"上後的後續醫療照顧及相關的就業輔導服務讓國手及職員得以擁有足夠的保障我再強調一次有足夠的保險保障才能夠保護我們的學生選手能夠安心安全他才能夠全職專心的邁向國手之路為自己為台灣打拼為國爭光以上請各位委員支持謝謝"},{"start":2114.909,"end":2118.11,"text":"好 謝謝何欣淳委員接下來我們請莊瑞學委員謝謝主席還有我們在場的列席的官員各位美女朋友大家早安那鑒於各項的一個運動的國際賽事大多舉辦在該單項運動的非職業的一個賽季所以呢就產生了很多有志為國家效力的一個運動員多半"},{"start":2143.474,"end":2160.046,"text":"都在休賽的一個休賽季的一個休息時間裡面去參賽但是因為你整個身體的累積整年度的一個賽季的一個疲勞讓我們的整個運動員的運動傷害風險也就提高那如何藉由法律面來提升對運動員參與這個國際賽事的權利保障我相信這個也是當務之急按照我們現行國民體育法"},{"start":2166.872,"end":2170.094,"text":"只有針對我國國家代表隊培訓選手和隊職員因為培訓跟參賽導致的一個短期失能、身心障礙或者死亡,發給慰問金。可是呢,來想想,運動員所受到的運動傷害往往容易"},{"start":2182.085,"end":2183.807,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、"},{"start":2204.747,"end":2208.128,"text":"至短期失能身心障礙,中央主管機關應主動後續醫療照顧及支援,若有嚴重影響生涯者,應提供後續就業輔導服務,保障選手在受訓期間能獲得完整照顧,並可同時減少選手參賽擔憂。我們期望藉由修法程序,讓各個主管機關擺脫過去徵召選手進入國家隊的思維,"},{"start":2234.133,"end":2258.599,"text":"我們是用邀請優秀體育選手來為國爭光對他們的權利義務的一個保障後續的照顧其實這個都是基本的感謝召委這次排定的一個議程裡面感謝特別要提醒這個體育改革這個置業其實都這個要很長的一段時間才有辦法去累積一點成效還需要我們立法院跟體育署充分的做合作這幾年除了上一屆"},{"start":2260.859,"end":2285.773,"text":"奧運後我們去因應這個林陽配的三月代言這一次來做成修法以外國民體育法其實沒有任何一次的一個修法這其實對於整個體育改革的進程非常可惜的一個地方我們期盼大家在今天的一個會議裡面能夠藉由這個尋討的過程有更充分具體的意見的一個交流我們也期望我們各位委員能夠在修法方向上謀求最大的一個共識讓本法修法能夠更真完善謝謝大家"},{"start":2287.315,"end":2297.65,"text":"好,謝謝莊瑞選委員,我們今天緊做這個說明,我們到時候再緊做巡檔,謝謝。那我們接下來我們就請教育部的劉政次進行報告,報告時間10分鐘。"},{"start":2305.389,"end":2319.538,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士、先生、大家好以下針對大學法第三十五條條文修正草案專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案國民體育法第五條條文修正草案國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":2320.407,"end":2335.041,"text":"國民體育法部分條文修正草案說明如下首先就大學法及專科學校法的修法部分為落實教育平權理念即協助弱勢學生本部現行大專校園學生學雜配減免"},{"start":2336.142,"end":2363.137,"text":"若是學生補助措施主要分為各類學雜費減免大專校院若是學生助學計畫就學貸款及一一三年期推動拉近公私立學校學雜費差距及其配套措施方案一一三年預算編列合計289.68億元其中本部至今年二月期推動拉近公私立學校學雜費差距及其配套措施主軸減免失利大專校院學生"},{"start":2363.957,"end":2377.967,"text":"學長費每學年3.5萬元及配套衣公司力大專、校院、經濟弱勢學生加碼補助1.5萬元至2萬元所需經費共計191.72億元相當於112年度高校經費1025億元的18.71億元為了避免排擠預算既有經費所以所增預算都是全數額外編列元一三年度本部高校預算達1276億元"},{"start":2393.337,"end":2418.651,"text":"那其次我們根據一一二學年度大專校園學生人數來對學費總額推估基本上學費一年學費總額推估大約為737.3億元那我們針對這次的修法也就是如果家庭所得進而適用稅率12%以內者免納學費那所涉及的投入預算那基本上根據"},{"start":2421.645,"end":2436.312,"text":"資料,家庭所得淨額適用稅率12%的家戶大約佔我們全部家戶的92%,所以我們以0.92來進行推估,這樣的話所需的免納學費大概是678.32億元。"},{"start":2440.413,"end":2466.224,"text":"如果考慮到我們以678.32億元減掉0.92的學生因免納學費無需再給予減免及補助這樣子一年所需增加的經費大概是411.81億元那這大概是我們113年高校預算的32.27%那所以如果我們要來推動這個就讀專科學校五年之後二年以及大學及大學上"},{"start":2467.576,"end":2495.466,"text":"經濟弱勢學生及家庭所得進而適用稅率百分之十二以內者免納學費。姑算起來,這樣的所需增加預算是411.81億元,也就相當於是我們現在今年高加預算的百分之三十二點二七。為不排擠目前新有教育預算,如要推動此一政策,建議必須要有額外預算指引為宜。其次,就國民體育法修法部分分別說明如下。"},{"start":2496.803,"end":2511.236,"text":"第一,針對委員柯志恩等17人擬具《國民體育法第五條條文修正草案》案。修正第五條第二項條文陣列,促進運動參與之性別平等部分,目前有關性別平等及運動平權等議理內容。"},{"start":2512.374,"end":2528.207,"text":"業隱納入本部體育署業務常態辦理並根據推動各項計畫而自113年度起亞奧運章程、協會章程、定定正義性別不少於三分之一規範同時我們是把他納入113年度補助全國性亞奧運單項運動協會經費原則審查重點"},{"start":2532.75,"end":2549.355,"text":"針對相關的經費政策都全力給予女性運動支持及協助。因此,我們對前開委員的修法意見本部予以尊重。第二,針對委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具國民體育法第23條條文修正草案。"},{"start":2550.055,"end":2577.787,"text":"第二項爭略,中央主管機關應提供國家代表隊培訓選手及對支援短期失能身心障礙選手或需醫療照顧必提供就業輔導。目前有關國家代表隊保險保障部分,頁一第一項授權訂定國家代表隊教練與選手選拔培訓及參賽處理辦法明定發起維穩計規定。然後,又會另符合肌肉運動選手就業輔導辦法或優秀運動學生輔導方案者也都可以依該辦法或方案輔導。"},{"start":2578.747,"end":2591.119,"text":"因此此一修法方向與本部的目前政策方向一致對於委員的修法意見本部予以尊重第三、針對委員蔡奇昌等21人擬具《國民體育法23條條文修正草案》案第一項針列籌組國家代表隊之"},{"start":2594.795,"end":2622.575,"text":"特定體育團體應依職業運動選手之合約薪資替其辦理有關保險並增列第三項及第四項明定保險應由中央主管機關辦理第二項增列應提供短期適能身心障礙選手後續要照顧及相關就業輔導服務卡良現行保險理賠金額系宜選手實際合約薪資評估委員保險公司實際承保理賠額度可能無法完全依照職業運動選手主要薪資給保障"},{"start":2623.376,"end":2645.571,"text":"本部體育署已規劃訂定教育部體育署補助國家代表隊培訓或參賽短期失能保險幾副與薪資差額要點,全額補助短期失能保險理賠與合約薪資差額以解決理賠額度不足問題,建議可先根據後續推動的情形進行評估研究,以求立法周全。"},{"start":2646.26,"end":2664.208,"text":"而針對前開委員修法意見本部予以尊重。第四針對委員何欣淳等20人擬具國民體育法部分條文修正草案。第一點針列第二十條之一學生代表學生參加體育活動學校應另為其投保申告。"},{"start":2665.707,"end":2689.26,"text":"醫療、私人保險及生活補助等保險正列第二十條之二由教育部辦理各級學校學生體育活動及運動訓練團體保險以及正列第二十條之三中央主管機關訂定體育活動及運動訓練團體保險不用費率僅建議可以先進行掀起相關研究以求立法周全而對委員的修法意見本部予尊重"},{"start":2690.657,"end":2699.483,"text":"針對第二點第二三條第二項針對第二點第二三條第二項針對第二點第二三條第二項針對第二點第二三條第二項針對第二點第二三條第二項針對第二點第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二項針對第二�"},{"start":2720.517,"end":2734.449,"text":"優秀運動選手輔導判案者依該辦法或判案輔導,其他人員則依打動部各該特殊身份輔導就業法規辦理。針對委員前開修法意見本部予以尊重。以上報告,敬請各位委員會議指教。"},{"start":2735.609,"end":2744.619,"text":"好 謝謝我們劉政次的口頭報告那我們就要開始進行詢答每位出席的委員諮詢時間是6分鐘必要的時候延長2分鐘列席委員諮詢時間為4分鐘發言對面截止時間是上午10點30分委員如果有臨時提案請在上午10點30分提出"},{"start":2756.491,"end":2773.184,"text":"並於本委員會的羅廷維委員局巡完畢之後,我們就要開始進行處理。處理提案的時候若提案委員還有聯署的委員均不在場,我們原例就不予處理。我們現在首先請發言登記第一位的紅孟凱委員巡檔。謝謝。好,主席謝謝。麻煩請劉次長跟體育署署長。"},{"start":2784.744,"end":2791.75,"text":"委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":2810.41,"end":2811.091,"text":"請體育署回答"},{"start":2825.194,"end":2848.729,"text":"保護委員 委員長那目前我們在體育署的部分已經有正在上簽到我們的教育部這邊有一個針對我們國家的運動員在短期失能的部分去補助他的薪資差額這部分的一個要點正在上程那我們預計在五月中可以完成五月中可以完成是 那五月中完成之後就可以讓我們的奧運能夠來試用"},{"start":2850.871,"end":2869.37,"text":"是奧運適用還是只有一體適用?一體適用那簡單的說明一下這是怎麼樣就是之前傳的比較大家討論比較多就是說有些職業選手他可能身價或說之前協會推說是這個合約不公開所以造成他沒有辦法幫他投保這個足夠額的保險那接下來勒?"},{"start":2870.191,"end":2894.182,"text":"報告委員那合約的部分目前我們有一些配套的措施我想接下來有薪資合約的選手他們的合約交到保險公司這一塊應該不是問題了再來是我們的選手在出國比賽的時候如果他是一年的約那我們從他受傷那一天開始我們將他的除了商業的保險這一塊薪資理賠之外"},{"start":2896.623,"end":2898.385,"text":"委員吾等於是說有政府的一個保障然後也有保險的一個之一是不是那"},{"start":2912.08,"end":2931.921,"text":"請教這樣的一個選手除了之前講的這個職業選手那我們國內的職業運動就包含籃球棒球嘛那有一些是甲級聯賽只要是薪資有薪資合約都含在裡面所以包括說我們看到女排男排這一些部分也都可以加入也都可以算入是不是是好"},{"start":2932.501,"end":2951.114,"text":"至少給我們中華對代表隊的這些選手無後顧之憂在場上拼搏啊。尤其是譬如說像這一次當然芭樂奧運沒有棒球,但是你說像籃球他可能現在也是在賽季之間。那他剛打完不管是季後賽然後總冠軍賽之後還要再去代表出席。"},{"start":2951.374,"end":2953.777,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":2967.637,"end":2991.451,"text":"之前國民體育法今天我們有看到其實國民體育法第21條之前就已經講過是說只要有商業行為的就要支付出賽費但本席後來才去再也再去做釐清為什麼你們一直講到施行細則原來你們偷偷的開一個巧門在施行細則裡面特別寫了跟母法國民體育法最大不同就是施行細則裡面寫"},{"start":2992.453,"end":2998.454,"text":"是有盈餘你們才要支付出賽費那就完全違反了國民體育法母法的"},{"start":2999.346,"end":3001.948,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":3025.404,"end":3039.008,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正"},{"start":3051.355,"end":3061.236,"text":"剛聽起來我就講了是應該要修施行細則因為你施行細則你在你的施行細則地來我看一下喔請這樣"},{"start":3063.075,"end":3083.437,"text":"讓你們這樣巧立名目,我說實在這施行細則是完全不合格的。在施行細則的第七條裡面居然寫說:「如果會有門票、廣告、媒體轉播或其他商業性收入且有盈餘時,才應支付我國國家代表隊選手的費用。」那跟國民體育法第21條第五款的"},{"start":3085.982,"end":3108.961,"text":"性質就完全不同國民體育法第21條第五款是說特定體育團體舉辦或參與具收益的商業性賽事時應支付選手出賽費他沒有講英語啊所以是不是應該除了署長剛剛講的再跟協會溝通應該把這變成是一定的成本出賽費多少一回事"},{"start":3109.702,"end":3120.518,"text":"有大比賽小比賽有不同的單項項目但是出賽費多少可以有溝通可以去訂標準但是該付要付那你的那個事情記者是不是應該要修?"},{"start":3121.854,"end":3147.652,"text":"我們再來檢討那應該沒有問題不是再來檢討啦署長剛剛已經講了嘛現在已經在溝通而且也應該要往這個方向那既然上千施行記者就應該一起修啊不然的話這樣就變人治國家不是法治國家啦你們怎麼會在施行記者裡面定立一個是說有盈餘就跟母法抵觸那既然現在要改變這個問題要解決這個問題除了短時間先做上千先跟協會溝通一樣"},{"start":3149.053,"end":3177.828,"text":"根本解決問題是施行細則要更正嗎?是。什麼時候可以更正?什麼時候可以送出?我們盡快地完成這件事情。那看看...520就要搞了,您是在...留給下一任賴政府嗎?蔡政府的...蔡政府的...這個燙手山芋留給賴政府來處理。幫委員我們盡量趕三個月啦,因為這畢竟還是有一些修法的過程。三個月內施行細則修正完畢,是不是?對,所以我們盡力。好。"},{"start":3179.375,"end":3194.414,"text":"來 最後喔 次長今天本席等一下10點鐘會跟我們好幾位教育文化委員會委員共同的有一個記者會是520即將最後一個月而上任在即我們也認為說國家最重要的是一個運動發展的項目"},{"start":3197.117,"end":3218.356,"text":"過去2021年本席跟我們好幾位委員都一起提出倡議就是說我們認為國家應該不只是體育署還是應該要有一個體育發展部因為體育發展是國力的一個象徵而最重要是可以達成四大面向包括人才的培育包括國際的交流包括相關產業的發展以及最後樂齡"},{"start":3220.517,"end":3222.678,"text":"委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":3248.621,"end":3272.602,"text":"之前本席也看到了賴清德總統他也在競選的時候承諾要成立運動及體育發展部那很多的民間團體包括說那時候的侯友宜總統候選人也有提到是說要成立運動發展部所以現在只剩一個月不到的就要520了那我們目前有沒有這樣的一個規劃這樣的一個方向"},{"start":3274.069,"end":3301.919,"text":"郭委員報告 這應該是由新政府到時候來進行規劃要等新政府才那個啊對 這個我們現在 這也應該是行政院層級來做的事情是啊 但是重點在於是說我們現階段應該就要去做一個提 如果說這個方向是應該做的或說我們樂觀其成的 應該要往這個方向推動的這也是 我們之前也在想是說這是不是持 延續執政其實也不"},{"start":3302.919,"end":3327.74,"text":"就哪一個總統當選他都是他的政見應該要落實啊所以說我們是不是應該要先來推動一個升格小組來去研議不管是原額不管是組織的一個這個調整或是說相關的這一些配套措施是不是應該要推動小組現在來去做研議了還是現在什麼時候不用講就是反正空轉就一個月等新政府再上任那這樣子國家是一體的嗎政府是一體的嗎"},{"start":3329.099,"end":3351.467,"text":"各位委員報告,這應該是由行政院這邊來發動,那我們會尊重行政院這邊相關的指示。聽起來一推256啊。市長不是啊,本席覺得你這個回答是很不積極,而且是這個態度是非常消極的。你贊不贊成或認不認同往這個方向來邁進?"},{"start":3354.936,"end":3370.648,"text":"本集會持續的倡議,我想這不只關於任何一個政黨,而這個是國家百年的大忌。最重要的是我們希望看到體育不只是人才培育、產業發展,"},{"start":3372.329,"end":3378.69,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19條條文修正草案案"},{"start":3399.44,"end":3409.247,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正"},{"start":3421.243,"end":3422.123,"text":"接下來我們請萬美玲委員"},{"start":3455.974,"end":3456.475,"text":"政務司司長、委員長政務司長、委員長政務司長、委員長政務司長、委員長"},{"start":3480.555,"end":3501.998,"text":"什麼叫做這個體育發展部4月3號的時候本席質詢這個署長那時候就說完全還沒有開始我們希望能夠快但你今天給了一個更驚人的答案等新政府那怎麼樣現在是白領薪水是不是大家都不要做事了就等520等新政府怎麼有這種回答而且這樣回答你放在你心裡就算了大啦啦在這個委員會備詢的時候講說我們等新政府"},{"start":3502.859,"end":3527.955,"text":"等新政府你吃飯要不要等新政府上來再繼續吃飯這種回答真的非常不好還兩手一攤滿臉嬉笑我真的覺得要檢討了那你看我相信這是一個非常重要的一個政策但並不是說現在我們在委員會才提出來要你馬上來做這是你們賴慶德準總統他的政見而且這是所有體育界的人大家殷切的盼望過去一點準備都沒有嗎一點概念都沒有嗎都沒有開過會嗎還等新政府勒"},{"start":3528.815,"end":3533.079,"text":"那你這兩個月薪水要不要領還等新政府我真的覺得要深思回去點討一下那再來我想剛剛我們說到這個體育發展部本席認為今天會後你真的不要再去等新政府研議一下研議有這麼困難嗎"},{"start":3544.309,"end":3555.291,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":3567.182,"end":3592.229,"text":"會後再來研議會後也請署長多久的時間研議可以跟本席辦公室跟我們教委所有的委員做一個報告不是要一個成果但是我們希望有一個藍圖希望也知道困難點在哪裡我們把所有的問題找出來大家共同來解決需要多久的時間是不是給我們兩個月的時間我們會把相關的研議報告送到委員辦公室一個月"},{"start":3595.435,"end":3596.396,"text":"巴黎帕運最高獎金為400萬元"},{"start":3613.228,"end":3616.731,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。 »:一、審查委員"},{"start":3636.408,"end":3652.139,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員�"},{"start":3654.701,"end":3656.182,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、"},{"start":3682.654,"end":3690.441,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":3693.648,"end":3716.407,"text":"報告委員這部分我們其實已經正在研議當中那其實跟委員報告在全世界針對怕運的選手的獎金的部分除了200萬以下的國家之外如果在200萬以上目前比我們高的是新加坡跟馬來西亞那大概整幾個國家的邏輯大概就是我們奧運參賽人數大概是一萬五千人所以大概有三十二分之一的人可以拿到金牌"},{"start":3716.647,"end":3725.609,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體�"},{"start":3738.974,"end":3743.298,"text":"繼立教練獎金部分也是有加倍到70萬的部分,我們正在努力,當然這需要國防獎章委員會再進一步開會來確認。亞帕裕呢?也是一樣,就整體的提升。你剛剛的意思是說我們現在可以把400萬提升到500萬,這是確定嗎?"},{"start":3758.414,"end":3759.915,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志"},{"start":3775.486,"end":3782.294,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等"},{"start":3795.649,"end":3800.312,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »:"},{"start":3820.845,"end":3822.926,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":3835.973,"end":3838.175,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案。゚ ゚。"},{"start":3853.969,"end":3865.558,"text":"我看到這個巴黎奧運進入倒數100天了那您大概是要信心喊話或是要鼓勵他們吧有提到有說到說現在的選手教練都已經不是單槍匹馬的在奮鬥了國訓中心體育署都會做他們的後盾了相信這個成績一定會比上一屆東京奧運更好一些上一屆東京奧運是最佳的一個成績了兩金四銀六銅"},{"start":3877.867,"end":3896.795,"text":"那這一次這樣子說我們成績會比上一屆好這是信心喊話還是有什麼依據這本意想要了解一下目前先信心喊話信心喊話有信心也是非常的重要但是有時候不要轉換人壓力我相信國手他們其實都會非常的努力好不好那但是呢他們現在要去這個法國我還是在講喔"},{"start":3897.355,"end":3904.782,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草"},{"start":3916.572,"end":3931.1,"text":"現在我們已經租借了50台的移動式的水冷氣了,但是有噪音,那有了噪音可能會影響他們的睡眠,影響睡眠可能會影響賽事的成績。那我不一定覺得這個很難克服嗎?那再者,那你說你要先去買幾台,這到底現在是買還是租?這算是一個小問題但是非常嚴重,要怎麼處理?"},{"start":3933.921,"end":3957.316,"text":"報告委員的確因為那個廠牌只有法國有賣所以說實在的我們真的不知道它會不會有噪音那依照我們台灣目前的水冷的一些產品噪音其實不大但是我們還是擔心所以我們還是很仔細那我們希望從法國那邊進口個幾台回來先測試看看這部分也是讓選手們有一些適應但是我們其實也是有其他的配套比方說"},{"start":3957.956,"end":3965.727,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體�"},{"start":3973.817,"end":3997.096,"text":"我們這一次花蓮大地震國立東華大學受災非常的嚴重我看到學校出來開記者會我心裡真的非常的痛他們出來開記者會說這一次預估災後重建要高達20億現在募到了6千萬然後呢這個我看到這個學校要重建竟然是校長要出來開記者會來募款那到底我們教育部在做什麼現在教育部能為東華大學做些什麼能不能簡單的說明一下"},{"start":3998.117,"end":4012.845,"text":"公文報告我們4月10日下去進行災損的那個評估目前估出來大概18.3億那預計分成三年的時間來把這18.3億設法倒揮那今年會先有透過本部的公務預算那學校自籌經費"},{"start":4014.186,"end":4039.815,"text":"還有政院的災害準備金跟爭取第二準備金先來支應今年,然後明後年會來爭取行政院的專項。我在這裡有支持,全力替東華大學來拜託,真的不要讓一個校長,這個學校滿目瘡痍,那現在還有這個線上上課,實體上課,那很多的校園要恢復正常,你還要讓他出來開記者會募款,情何以堪,全力支持東華大學的災後重建好不好?是,這沒有問題。好,謝謝。"},{"start":4043.8,"end":4047.924,"text":"好 謝謝兩位接下來我們請葛如君委員謝謝主席 有請教育部劉孟綺次長好 我們請次長"},{"start":4068.257,"end":4094.865,"text":"委員早 早 次長今天雖然是與您的初次見面但是得知您是電機系的背景同為科技人可以說是倍感親切前幾次的質詢我曾提到近來教育界發生很多跟科技有關尤其是AI有關的爭議事件包含復興商工的這個美術首獎的作品大鬧龍弓被發現使用AI來繪圖最後學生被取消首獎的資格並且記了小過的處分"},{"start":4098.166,"end":4117.489,"text":"教育部每年主辦的這個比賽的活動,寫作比賽,評審也發現110件作品裡面有25件儀式,用生存式AI來寫出。錄製這個比賽彷彿變成AI人間大亂鬥。教育部強調若是以AI工具生成代寫,累積兩次則永久停權,終身不得參加比賽。"},{"start":4118.69,"end":4146.631,"text":"我們其實還是會一直感覺到這個科技AI從教育部的眼中看起來好像是戰犯但是我們科技人應該要理解到它其實是戰友它永遠都應該是我們的工具而不是我們的敵人我們一方面鼓勵學生用數位工具學習但是另外一方面卻不告訴他們如何善加運用AI什麼時候可以用AI什麼樣的情況叫做勿用AI上一次林明裕次長來備詢我請教他教育部目前是否有針對高中以下"},{"start":4147.552,"end":4166.491,"text":"學生訂定AI使用指引當時的林次長現實淡淡的跟我說現行的中小學數位教學指引中有相關的內容想請問次長你有沒有看過現行中小學數位教學指引2.0當中有關學生使用AI工具學習的部分嗎給你一個機會要不要簡要說明一下內容好80頁"},{"start":4170.824,"end":4180.993,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員說明一下目前這個數位教學的指引當然AI應該是裡面的一部分一部分嗎我們給市長看一下多少一部分八十頁裡面"},{"start":4182.782,"end":4207.034,"text":"只有這樣跟學生使用AI生成視野的就這樣但我可以理解啦這是2023年10月份生成視野還沒有那麼熱門或影響那麼大但是我們每天在睡覺AI都在進步我們是不是應該要更快一點我們認為這樣的一個內容的比例真的是完全不夠總共加起來一夜半不足一千個字"},{"start":4207.974,"end":4235.973,"text":"內容啦,如果真的仔細去讀發現說了好像又什麼都沒說但是既已經是內容如此的少我們教育部卻對於誤用AI工具的學生喊打喊殺、洞察忌過甚至終身停權不得參加比賽我們覺得這樣真的是不太公平有點不講武德啦所以市長我知道現在教育部應該正在研議中小學數位教學指引3.0這一份學生使用指引在3.0裡面是不是可以加強"},{"start":4236.933,"end":4257.81,"text":"並且也應該定期檢討,增加最新的內容,避免以實務脫節,這部分是不是可以同意?是,沒有錯,就如委員所說的,這部分我們要來加強。好,而且速度要快,本席在此具體的要求,教育部不只要趕快來推出3.0,因為現在馬上要申請考試,我自己以前在學校也是在審審這些內容,"},{"start":4259.631,"end":4284.668,"text":"那麼一大堆的東西過來到底哪些是AI哪些不是AI我當時都已經開始發現有這個問題了現在更是如此我們真的在此具體要求教育部在一個月內針對訂定學生AI使用執意提出具體規劃內容以及期程並將研議結果以書面送交本席的辦公室另外針對上一次本席所提出的兩個非常重要來幫助老師的"},{"start":4285.128,"end":4314.369,"text":"第一個AI生成內容判斷原則以及經過教育部認可的AI生成內容判斷工具我們現在都是老師用肉眼在看當時的林次長承諾馬上會進行研議能不能也請教育部於一個月內將研議情形與書片送到本席辦公室報告委沒有問題我們一個月內把這個送到委員辦公室這個真的非常的重要那接下來我想請次長看一張圖片請問次長知道照片中的場景是什麼情況嗎"},{"start":4321.295,"end":4340.504,"text":"這是三月份全台各縣市私中、私立中學的入學考試的其中一場學生考試家長陪考全家一起為了進入私立國中而努力回顧七年多前潘部長上任以後的第一場記者會當時就提到希望落實十二年國教全面免試"},{"start":4341.904,"end":4350.388,"text":"究竟入學消除不當升學壓力引導國中教學正常化我們再來看一下是不是很輕鬆啊是不是很輕鬆那實際上我們其實可以感覺到現在這個問題都還是一樣七年多過去的俄盟"},{"start":4358.251,"end":4367.86,"text":"一百一十二年所做的調查國高中生的生活困擾我在這邊提供給您學校課業76.9%再來還是未來前途67.3%交友人際大家都很輕鬆啦43%這個結果竟然跟107年的調查報告是一致的"},{"start":4377.068,"end":4399.934,"text":"表示這幾年來兒少困擾的原因根本就沒有改變更令人憂心的是這樣的學習壓力沒有減輕反而進一步向下延伸到義務教育的階段這是瘋狂私校潮的議題平均每七名國中生就有一名要就讀私校跟其他的國家相比台灣學生就讀私立國中的比例15%"},{"start":4402.714,"end":4419.222,"text":"從102年的11%學生人數增加,結果竟然進入私校的比,學生人數下降,我們少子化嘛,竟然進入私中的比例還提高。我們是15%跟其他國家比的是怎麼樣呢?我在此提供我們很科學嘛,美國8.3%,日本7.4%,英國5.4%,更不用講法國只有0.5%。"},{"start":4424.545,"end":4452.365,"text":"我想這種公校出逃的現象真的是不太好。想請問一下次長您認為公校出逃的現象背後原因到底是什麼?為什麼許多中產階級的家庭寧願勒緊褲帶也要把小孩送進私校就讀?您有瞭解嗎?跟委員報告國教署比較不是我督導的業務但我大概有一點出錢的瞭解這還是跟升學可能比較有關係"},{"start":4453.496,"end":4474.022,"text":"好,我想這個您是次長啦,相關的議題也都希望還是有所了解,因為尤其我們是科技背景的,我想每個領域都我們都來關心一下。我們在這邊來跟您分享一下,公校教育的品質不穩定,師生對立的情形惡化,校園霸凌的案件增加,這都還只是報導裡面非常小的部分。"},{"start":4474.542,"end":4493.991,"text":"希望您可以來多加了解一下換算起來啦其實呢這個OECD裡面的這個PISA相關的成績呢我們現在還出現了城鄉差距這個城市與鄉間的學習程度落差將近三年而且還在持續擴大當中我們也來評估了一下這個預算"},{"start":4495.912,"end":4511.58,"text":"數位跟科技其實是來彌補這個落差的很好的工具是我們的戰友但我們看到這個年度預算的漲跌幅竟然比比特幣還要兇我們可以看到111年度跟以前比起來是多了64倍到了112年度剩下32億結果從112億到32.8億這不只是腰斬"},{"start":4521.184,"end":4540.78,"text":"甚至對折到對折打到骨折我想這樣子的一種波動有時候其實不是那麼的好當然我知道都是善意但是我們能不能更穩定的來提供數位AI科技來協助大家的一個方法我們其實看到過去有這個提倡什麼英才網對不對英才網"},{"start":4543.522,"end":4559.992,"text":"那我們裡面看了數據我們也發現呢欸六成的學生沒有使用或者沒有超過使用四個小時想請教一下次長為什麼原因這個使用好像比例還不夠高啊沒有超過一半有沒有什麼樣的原因"},{"start":4562.425,"end":4577.014,"text":"跟委員報告,剛剛所說的那個111年度那個預算增加最主要是購買載具。我知道啊,那接下來咧?我們明年是不是又要再邀展啊?我們有沒有一個更長期的規劃?我們的波動是不是可以不要這麼大?"},{"start":4578.195,"end":4592.778,"text":"要多我們現在應該要再更多我們有沒有在做AI軟體的補助我們有沒有做數位工具的規劃我想希望接下來我們可以一次看到更多一點不是好像每年都在抽樂透明年又變150億再來變15億我想對此希望教育部可以開放精神多元選擇建議可以採用公司協力的方式很多的基金會、公益組織都在創建數位學習的資源平台"},{"start":4605.981,"end":4610.025,"text":"這個我們真的是鼓勵教育部應該要來參考最後我想提供一下史丹佛大學也開始在開發AI的工具Gate Keep AI我們現在的數位學習都要讓老師錄很多的影片"},{"start":4620.578,"end":4640.829,"text":"但是現在已經可以用AI自動化生成教學詳解的影片很多大型的國際公司G開頭的也可以用自動化生成的影片的方式來幫老師來做講解的影片我們也發現有很多的NGO非營利組織或基金會已經在開發AI的工具我希望我們在此真的是建請教育部"},{"start":4641.249,"end":4665.154,"text":"可以把眼睛打開我們用開放的精神去擁抱支持大家一起來努力否則真的跟不上啦貧窮世襲會非常嚴重市長是電機工程的背景對科技很熟悉期待我們分享給你您也分享給即將上任的政部長其免教育部可以繼續的為減少學習的落差我們一起來努力可以嗎"},{"start":4665.774,"end":4680.239,"text":"可以,也跟委員報告,目前的確我們資科室也在努力把AI引進目前的這個數位學習裡面,那我們會繼續來努力。希望不要只是教育部,這樣真的不夠,我們剛剛提到了很多很多的做法,可以跟外部一起協力麻煩,謝謝。是,謝謝。"},{"start":4694.445,"end":4694.765,"text":"次長、署長"},{"start":4706.308,"end":4729.822,"text":"委員長謝謝,這個次長沒想到又在諮詢團跟你見面了我記得看看你的這個歷史你是中山大學的教授而且105年7月你是從中山大學教務長離開然後到大考中心嘛那時候鄭英耀在你童年的時候8月才擔任中山的校長所以你們是師之交備那你現在目前為止你是會隨潘部長卸任呢還是我們的新部長有徵詢你繼續擔任政策"},{"start":4732.065,"end":4744.011,"text":"目前沒有這方面的訊息好啦 不管你怎麼樣反正就是做一天的和尚敲一天的鐘啦我覺得次長這個態度或是語調上或許你的態度積極但你的語調現在讓所有的委員覺得實在是有點太和緩了好不好我們兩個加起來除以二可能才是真正應該在這個大院裡面當中所應該有的好 那你知道教改三十年這個過程你一點都不陌生而且你自己本身是台大畢業的"},{"start":4758.018,"end":4768.843,"text":"那很多人都指出台大快要變成我們大安區的這個大學了因為過去靠教育翻身然後現在整個這個階級流動的部分來說的話你會發現掌握越多工具的人他進入頂大的這個成效其實越高嘛那你反而是讓這個30年的這個教改變成M型化的這個社會嘛這個貧窮這個世襲化嘛這一點你不能否認嘛所以資源能分配是非常的重要的所以本席跟其他的委員都提出的修法"},{"start":4787.532,"end":4816.043,"text":"希望能夠讓經濟弱勢的學生能夠免納學費而且我們認為我們可以照顧到97萬人而且我的主張是牌付的目前賴清德準總統他的政見當中他是在二月的時候才推出學費的補助受惠的人是47.3萬但是並沒有牌付再加上其他的方案請問教育部對於我剛剛所提到的改善M型化有更高明更公平的做法嗎?次長"},{"start":4817.592,"end":4835.73,"text":"跟委員報告目前當然如委員所說這個問題的確是存在特別是我們公立跟私立之間的學費所以我們現在初步是先來拉近這個學費的差距但是針對委員所提出的這個免納學費其實我們是支持這樣的一個精神"},{"start":4836.371,"end":4836.491,"text":"二、審查委員"},{"start":4852.244,"end":4852.444,"text":"你也督導國體大吧?"},{"start":4870.595,"end":4891.499,"text":"市長是吧?國體大部分也歸你管吧?你有聽過行政協助這四個字的方式嗎?你有聽過行政協助嗎?有這是會計項目的一個部分嘛我們來看看嘛112年的時候你的公務預算我說實在的公務預算當中呢4000多萬運動法案、金金私案就是3000多萬去年總計15萬花了7800多萬好了那今年呢短短的三個月時間呢你就有11案"},{"start":4899.681,"end":4911.69,"text":"給國體大的行政協助我先不知道行政協助的定義先說明一下從今年三個月不到時間就有11案總共加起來說實在鄭署長你上任到現在給國體大的行政協助總共花了將近一億兩千多萬為什麼其他學校都沒有辦法拿到行政協助為什麼國體他讀後國體他給這麼多難道就是因為我們鄭署長是屬於國體大的總務長嗎"},{"start":4925.954,"end":4946.641,"text":"為什麼會有這麼多?國體大學培養非常多運動人才,無庸置疑,但是行政協助,次長你知道嗎?每一案是不是要經過你的允許?你知道有這件事嗎?行政協助不一定過我這邊。然後呢?過誰那邊?我只問你,總共加起來,夯不端加起來總共一年多的時間,一億兩千萬,行政協助。"},{"start":4949.639,"end":4964.797,"text":"你現在如果不知道的話你現在知道了行政協助給了這麼多更不要說其他還有4.1億其他的補助給國體大我可不可以請問一下署長你要不要解釋一下而且目前來說這個這麼大的行政協助你這麼有行政效率啊"},{"start":4965.317,"end":4992.415,"text":"報告委員,其實我們常跟各大專校院請求他們協助,主要是在政策的部分。我懂,問題是你跟其他的比較台師大。其實更多台師大是比國體大還要更多。我幫你把經費全部拿出來給我們看看。我現在只想說你上任之後一年多的時間,我們比這時間。其實在這部分的預算這邊的經費的部分大部分是延續性的。那在我任內的部分大概是有少子化的部分。"},{"start":4992.875,"end":4993.415,"text":"請問教育部支不支持?"},{"start":5019.341,"end":5046.016,"text":"支持不是只有嘴巴講一講,還有次長還有署長,這麼多事件,我們有這麼多的這個發生了不少的教練性侵、猥褻選手,還有奧運金牌的教練性侵女選手這麼多年,與其事後來做懲處,我覺得事前的防範更重要,這是指正利利啊,不是嗎?請問你們有沒有更積極的做法跟防範的措施?不要事情發生了才做這樣的一個處理,有嗎?有更防範的做法嗎?"},{"start":5047.861,"end":5065.267,"text":"包括委員目前我們在三個會期基本上將這方面須應該有的法規大部分是完備了那現在就是在教育的部分我們在所有的教練以及裁判這些講習的部分我們還是更強力加上包括每年都必須包括哪些身體不可以碰觸哪些部分是最重要的"},{"start":5067.128,"end":5071.99,"text":"好 我們希望這種事情因為這些選手就是為我們國家出去出賽不要再發生奧運金牌選手還有這樣的一個狀況然後呢 我們也請體育署看看我因為我提出性別平等嘛所以我們來看看這個統計這是還蠻軟性的在大家還要上體育課的時間你們發現"},{"start":5084.674,"end":5087.438,"text":"這個18歲到24歲的女生都不是太愛運動反而到了五十幾歲之後呢男女愛運動的比率才回復平等要不要說一下你要怎麼鼓勵我們的女生愛運動特別只要有上運動體育課的人大家都不喜歡這是怎麼一回事"},{"start":5100.22,"end":5115.88,"text":"委員這部分我們還持續在努力因為說實在在升學的過程當中的確有沒有發現女性的規律運動人口的確比較少而且很有趣的是男女在17歲以下還有60歲以上比例是差不多的你反而女生在18到24歲就開始"},{"start":5118.183,"end":5124.646,"text":"不愛了知道我們體育課到底發生了什麼樣的狀況去了解一下好不好署長這是本席在調資的時候發現一個非常有趣的一個部分還有包括你看你輔導地方政府要設計基層運動員的這個培訓扇你看現在男女性別比例也是6比4這很明顯的而且同樣是六都為什麼台南跟高雄培訓選手特別少而且台南才只有600女生只有690人比苗栗的929還要少這是怎樣你看看你這樣的比率加起來"},{"start":5147.756,"end":5156.644,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正"},{"start":5164.25,"end":5177.737,"text":"署長還是一樣啊,運動夏天大家都很喜歡啊。你看,像以高雄來說就有很多人跟我陳情啊。以前學生一個禮拜可以上四次游泳課啊,今年開始變成只有三次啊。問了一下教育局,他們告訴你就說因為體育署今年對這學校游泳課的補助少了七百萬。西安娜,為什麼要少七百萬?"},{"start":5183.88,"end":5189.404,"text":"因為在疫情的期間的確很多的縣市在經費上面是消化不掉,所以我們把剩餘的經費再挪給比較有這個意願的縣市。沒有啦,那你看學生就要挨挨救啦,本來是四個... 是,沒有,主要是高雄市本身的確我們也希望縣市政府也能夠配合,能夠一起來...那你還是要給人家經費足夠,你就是經費不夠才讓人家變成四個小時嘛。 這部分我們會來努力啦。"},{"start":5204.076,"end":5205.397,"text":"請問你們在整個運動隊的心理諮商人員名單出來了沒有?"},{"start":5228.264,"end":5236.111,"text":"報告委員目前我們在盤整當中因為這跟選手有沒有達標有連動性沒有你心理諮商師有沒有我們現在有大概預計啦最多應該是十位十位好目前為止啊你國訓教育科據說你們現在有四名心理師要來去往巴黎啦我請問他們有沒有專業證照目前都有運動心理學會他們發的有沒有專業證照"},{"start":5253.407,"end":5262.332,"text":"這部分是運動心理學會為主那有臨床心理師的部分大概有幾位是有的拜託那個署長你去搞清楚一下就我的理解來說你們目前來說本來國訓中心要派一名這個所謂的運動心理諮商員他是總負責可是他在去年3到6月的時候當選手自傷事件的時候這位所謂的運動心理諮商員把全部人集合在一起把選手當中叫起來公審你覺得這符合"},{"start":5281.141,"end":5282.322,"text":"委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":5309.405,"end":5324.538,"text":"奧運的現場我們的證件的部分的確沒有辦法每一位都拿到但是我們至少會有三位以上會能夠進到場內去場內而且要有專業的這樣的背景好不好不要空有一個名號沒有專業的證照要有證照我需要看到你們這時候在我們上次國訓中心發生的這件事情如果你有證照還告訴我你公開公審我真的要質疑這個大學的專業到底在哪裡這是非常重要的好不好包括他們的背景全部一一條列給我一下"},{"start":5338.949,"end":5343.811,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝柯志恩委員謝謝次長謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝我們現在請郭育晴委員有請次長好次長謝謝"},{"start":5362.446,"end":5383.701,"text":"市長早安我想首先開始我就先跟市長報告這應該是本席第四次針對凱凱案對教育部作出的質詢那還不包含在未還委員會的那一次喔好那我想呢教育部跟本席一樣我們都背負著很多人的期待"},{"start":5384.401,"end":5399.691,"text":"很多人期待本席繼續把凱凱案放在心上我也承諾一定要做到但是有更多人期待我們把教育部是主管機關的這樣子的一個重大的一個"},{"start":5401.292,"end":5422.764,"text":"針對兒福聯盟重大的一個缺失來做出懲處那這個部分也是他們對教育部主管機關的一個期待那麼在這裡呢其實我還是不斷的要再次的提醒喔既然今天教育部有來我們也是把握這個機會即便是在520之前時間剩下不多但是我想請教一下次長3月29號你有看過兒福聯盟給的這份報告嗎"},{"start":5428.956,"end":5433.471,"text":"您看過了嗎?二副聯盟給教育部的稽查的這份報告,3月29號。"},{"start":5435.199,"end":5450.125,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十"},{"start":5462.91,"end":5476.557,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人"},{"start":5478.638,"end":5481.74,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":5508.958,"end":5535.078,"text":"缺失但是不是只有報告上的缺失我們要的是教育部對兒福聯盟實際的一個作為包含他們的董事會要不要改組包含這個兒盟存在的必要性麻煩請一定要提出真正的懲處給社會大眾一個交代給凱凱一個交代一個不到兩歲的孩子在12月24號就已經被虐三個月死亡"},{"start":5536.159,"end":5551.292,"text":"這件案子到3月的時候11號3月11號才浮上檯面但一直拖到現在兒福聯盟的報告裡面還在跟我提他說他們今年度的預算缺少了9752萬他在2月份的時候他用了9800萬去買了還是沒有貸款喔去台中買了不動產"},{"start":5561.499,"end":5579.069,"text":"然後跟我說這份報告裡頭直接第二頁就說他們今年缺錢我不知道這樣子的兒福聯盟就教育部您是他的主管機關我光念這些您覺得他有要改正他有要修正他有針對凱凱案做出檢討的決心嗎"},{"start":5582.059,"end":5582.52,"text":"教育部職責?"},{"start":5601.522,"end":5612.752,"text":"我們是不是可以針對財團法、人法當中去徹底的檢討這個兒福聯盟到現在為止他們的缺失還有包含五年前被虐死亡的配配?"},{"start":5613.595,"end":5631.327,"text":"那這個是一定要做的那這一個如委員所說這個應該是這禮拜五就會來開這個那相關的我們也會請這一個我們負責的這一個終身教育師要確實的來針對這些事項來要求俄府聯盟來"},{"start":5631.647,"end":5655.363,"text":"包括他們的財務狀況包括他們的管理階層包括他們的內控制度一定要做出懲處這是我們期待一定要看到的我不希望一直在這裡每一次只要教育部來我都要提到這個案子那就表示我們真的都沒有做到這已經是我的第四次對教育部因為凱凱案提出的質詢可以嗎"},{"start":5658.325,"end":5661.94,"text":"那我們就會依在這個財團法人法有相關的規定來處置"},{"start":5663.001,"end":5687.869,"text":"好因為今天時間的關係我們來看一下剛剛其實有很多我們的委員同事們他們也都提到了現在光是在升學的部分其實有很多過去我們所認為的中產階級他們願意把孩子放到他們所謂的這個公立小學或公立的這個中學但現在其實有更多的這樣子的一個"},{"start":5688.689,"end":5690.49,"text":"教育部對於這樣子的一個狀況您的想法是什麼?教育部對於這樣子的一個狀況您的想法是什麼?"},{"start":5715.77,"end":5742.562,"text":"市長跟委員報告我想這裡面也包含到就是可能還是要針對私立的學校他在一些升學上面他可能會的確是具備一些不是只有升學我直接跟您報告一下其實包含整個所有的教育制度的一個改變讓很多的家長是無所適從的所以他們願意把孩子花更多的學費花更多的家庭的預算"},{"start":5743.462,"end":5746.984,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、"},{"start":5769.84,"end":5783.374,"text":"這個部分其實是主要的三大原因再來我們來看一下108課綱我相信108課綱它的利益是良善的我不曉得次長知不知道108課綱最重要的精神是哪三個他基本上有這個"},{"start":5788.243,"end":5807.721,"text":"主動、自主、互動、共好是他的主要的一個精神。雖然利益良善,但是在規定高中三年要完成18堂的自主學習的一個時數,其實也變成了他們畢業的一個主要的一個條件。但是在執行面上其實學生碰到了很大的困難。"},{"start":5808.382,"end":5834.142,"text":"相對的來講也造就了家長在面臨小孩面對這個108課綱的時候他們真的也是抱怨連連我相信你們一定都聽到了聲音因為這已經不是一個短期的時間包含很多的受訪者包含學生他們說53%不知道進行的方向他們不曉得這108課綱的自主學習要如何開始學習他連方向都沒有辦法掌握超過一半"},{"start":5835.123,"end":5838.004,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »:"},{"start":5857.133,"end":5858.754,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案 案。 »:"},{"start":5875.046,"end":5903.999,"text":"不管是就業投入社會的一個工作的一個方向可是這個108課綱點出了這樣子的五大痛點這也就是為什麼他們就從國中開始就紛紛的把孩子想要送往私校但會不會造成很大的問題會不會造成偏鄉的孩子他們資源不足成鄉的教育程度M型化差距的問題市長這是不是都是很大的問題"},{"start":5905.492,"end":5932.537,"text":"我想這個就應該是說素養跟這個跨領域其實這個方向本身可能還是一個必須要去走的方向但是的確如委員所說在如何去避免城鄉差距跟給素養一個更明確的可以比較可以操作的方向然後同時也是對於師資要跟上來的這件事情的確是我們還有很多要努力的地方你們有沒有一些具體的做法"},{"start":5933.505,"end":5946.783,"text":"目前我們最主要是如果是在國家的話當然還是要靠我們的或是說比較來由我們譬如說我們輔導團譬如說我們各地的學科中心等等來設法帶上來那當然包含我們的數位學習這邊"},{"start":5948.906,"end":5958.569,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法"},{"start":5978.443,"end":5995.655,"text":"這個狀況就是我有公立學校但我找不到合格的老師這就像剛剛我說的即使很多的學校三招四招甚至十幾招之後他還是依舊找不到能夠進入學校去教學的人才這個部分麻煩我們真的要再繼續努力可以嗎好請把凱凱案放在心上請盡速的告訴我們我們針對凱凱案對兒福聯盟要做出什麼樣的懲處"},{"start":6009.56,"end":6009.72,"text":"陳秀寶委員委員長"},{"start":6030.518,"end":6049.666,"text":"市長早安市長我想請教您國立臺北大學三峽校區學生會他們在16號的時候我在臉書幫我們爆料說指出校方疑似透過各種手段介入學生會的選舉他們也附上了關鍵的對話截圖學生會指稱學校疑似透過安插學生幫忙繳費請吃飯這樣子的條件企圖介入學生會的選舉學生會指呼說"},{"start":6060.231,"end":6085.507,"text":"校方介入的方式真是令人毛骨悚然並且這個關鍵的這個對話截圖都有附上次長本席這邊想請問我們目前在大專院校來發展學生自治目的是希望說我們的民主精神可以在校園中落實跟實踐而且讓學生積極的參與我們學校各項的決策那麼現在台北大學學生會的發生這樣的狀況不知道教育部你們現在有沒有去了解結果是什麼"},{"start":6086.982,"end":6100.9,"text":"跟委員報告我們有注意到這件事情我們正在了解那以我來看的話如果這是真的話這是非常不適合的也非常不對的做法所以正在了解意思是說你們還在調查當中還沒有一個正式的結果"},{"start":6101.601,"end":6103.902,"text":"大專院校來發展這個自治是期許說民主的素養能夠向下延伸那發生這樣的狀況呢也也"},{"start":6121.172,"end":6139.136,"text":"讓我們學生自治會跟學校這邊的互信的基礎可能被破壞所以這邊也希望說教育部這邊能更積極來協助來排解這個情勢接下來本席想請教英國的泰晤士高等教育特刊在2023年的世界大學生育排名有邀請來自166個國家"},{"start":6142.737,"end":6167.586,"text":"地區總計有3萬多名的學者參與意見調查是歷年來規模最大的一次那學者最多可評估並提供15所在他們的各自的專業領域中覺得研究教學表現最佳的大學然而從2020年開始台灣大學的排名就一直下降在2020年台大排名是在第40名同時當時的成功大學、江峰大學、清大也都有入排行"},{"start":6168.246,"end":6187.599,"text":"在2021年之後,台大的排名就往下掉了之後其他學校也只剩下陽明教大有進入百大在之後的2022年到2023年只有台大有入榜但是排名是一直下滑到2023年其實已經在百大之外他是兩百大"},{"start":6189.04,"end":6196.485,"text":"市長您對台大排名一直下降您有什麼看法?有沒有了解到是什麼原因造成的?是我們的研究量能不足嗎?還是有什麼其他的因素?當台灣從2022年之後除了台大沒有再有其他大學入榜市長您覺得因為我們現在國家政策是很積極的對外要攬財來招攬優秀的人才"},{"start":6212.815,"end":6240.276,"text":"那這樣的一個大學的排名的結果會不會影響臺灣我們攬財這些國際人才來臺灣的意願?您覺得呢?跟委員報告就如委員的這個資料所說明其實我們在我們也去了解目前的一個大概狀況其實如果看一個學術的研究的量能的話如委員的資料所說其實是穩定正向的發展那它比較大的我們大概會比較吃虧一點的是所謂的"},{"start":6241.477,"end":6267.798,"text":"同儕評比國際生育的部分也就是所謂的在主觀去評的部分那其實我們大概在美國跟歐洲的主要國家大概那部分得分都還不錯那目前我們的分析就太大也跟我們有來分享或者是非歐美國家因為非歐美國家也會加入做這種主觀的評分那我們在那邊得到的分數的確是比較不理想所以是說我們在校際的互動上比較缺乏嗎?"},{"start":6268.358,"end":6290.749,"text":"對,因為它本身會有高達,我記得如果沒有錯,它大概有高達三成或三成以上的分數,是所謂的主觀評分。這主觀評分就是各個學者來評。太武市高等教育特科在國際間它是很有知名度的,也一般的覺得說它是很有公信力的,尤其是2023年的評比又是歷年來規模最大的一次。"},{"start":6291.249,"end":6319.778,"text":"那大家在批評裡面有指出喔台灣的大學院校在研究成果引用影響力及國際合作入文方面的表現是成正向的發展喔但是也提醒提升研究品質及發展國際合作有助強化大學的聲譽所以在這兩個指標上台灣有很大的進步空間就是還在努力也符合剛才次長您所說的在校際的這個互動這上面可能我們也必須要再加強喔所以您也覺得說這個方向的建議"},{"start":6321.198,"end":6344.961,"text":"是很可以來作為參考讓台灣大學能繼續進步一個努力的方向嗎?對,因為包含其實他們有包含僱主聲望,僱主聲望那也是一個主觀聲譽,所以變成說我們台灣這些它的一個,其實就是說它不是光看這些研究的客觀,這部分我們的表現其實一直都算穩定,那就是這些主觀評價的地方要怎麼突破。"},{"start":6345.632,"end":6372.783,"text":"其實他在他的這個對我們台灣的這個評論來講他也是有對我們有肯定的如同本席剛剛所說的在研究成果上引用影響力以及國際合作論這個部分他也是對我們很肯定但如果有指出我們哪裡有不足的也希望說我們各學校以及教育這邊我們可以在這方面再加強因為其實雖然說一個大學的排名是不是說在國際上有"},{"start":6374.804,"end":6374.844,"text":"請教次長"},{"start":6394.006,"end":6414.771,"text":"教育被認為是民主社會中促進社會流動以及實現社會正義的主要機制。透過教育資本的累積,弱勢階級可以憑個人的能力來參與社會資源的競逐,來消除因為財富所衍生出來的社會不公平而有機會翻轉階級,也就是說教育是翻轉階級的助力。但是從2009年到2014年統計來看,低收戶"},{"start":6420.472,"end":6448.362,"text":"低收入戶的子女進入景天大學的比率都很低在百分之一以下那進入公立大學的比率最高也只有百分之零點七到百分之一點二那目前高中職畢業生就讀公立大學院校只佔百分之三十五那就讀私立的大專院校是佔百分之六十五一年學費的差距有將近五萬元那也有研究論文指出說家庭優渥的孩子進入台大的機率是弱勢孩子的六倍"},{"start":6449.082,"end":6470.399,"text":"那頂大學生的家戶所的分佈普遍比較高家庭優渥的子女進入前20名大學的比例也比較高資源較多的學校學生經濟狀況會比較好這是論文他們研究的顯示這些在在都顯示說台灣目前高教現場能就因為家庭背景的不同在教育上是會有落差的"},{"start":6471.199,"end":6475.241,"text":"教育部為了落實教育平權從2007年辦理學校推薦2010年正式推動繁星計劃也在2021年推動願景計劃今年二月也正式實施拉近公私立學校學雜費的差距方案"},{"start":6488.248,"end":6513.557,"text":"但是,繁星計畫錄取率最高直到今年的六成二,願景計畫名額今年只有558名。顯然呢,教育部還有很多地方可以努力。次長,請問我們明年仍然會持續推動拉近公私立學校學雜費差距方案嗎?會,拉近公私立學校學雜費這個差距方案就是持續推動下去了。那麼在預算許可之下有沒有提高補助金額的規劃?"},{"start":6514.926,"end":6541.257,"text":"如果可能的話當然就是既然是拉近當然才能夠拉得越近越好不過當然這個就是在看預算有沒有可能來支持所以如果我們有機會再爭取更多的預算那在這個補助的金額也可以再提高因為畢竟這還是有一點差距希望可以造福更多弱勢的學子嘛那在防新計畫的部分如何提高錄取率或者說還有還有我們運勤進化的名額跟效性會不會再提升"},{"start":6542.867,"end":6542.887,"text":"市長"},{"start":6561.335,"end":6583.767,"text":"教育公共化是實現教育平權的重要手段在我們有限的資源之下讓更多弱勢的孩子可以分配到教育資源這是我們教育部現在要做的課題也希望說剛才次長您有說了我們這個拉近公私立學校學長費差距方案會持續來推動那也希望說願景計畫這個名額可以持續在增加讓更多孩子他們有機會謝謝"},{"start":6592.018,"end":6592.819,"text":"林怡瑾委員"},{"start":6607.069,"end":6623.826,"text":"蘇珊好我想今天首先本席先針對這個國民體育法有關那個運動選手參加國家代表隊這個保險的議題來討論喔那本席4月初質詢的時候就有跟林藤教次長討論這件事情那"},{"start":6624.406,"end":6624.546,"text":"議員柯志恩"},{"start":6654.626,"end":6658.049,"text":"目前我們大概是集訓期間我們會把它願意把它納入那這部分我們正在進行"},{"start":6676.398,"end":6680.961,"text":"短期內有個解方當然是好可是現在就是說我們用長遠的眼光來看這件事情的話我們就會認為說運動選手參加這個國家隊的這個保險如果光是使用要點的規範這個夠嗎?"},{"start":6693.03,"end":6693.09,"text":"議員柯志恩"},{"start":6715.111,"end":6739.949,"text":"要修正這個國民體育法二、三條來修法那我的主張是說保險的額度計算要有個參考的依據那大方向是跟這個要點的規劃是差不多的可是進一步我們可以來思考規劃就是說理賠的額度要跟選手的合約薪資相當那因為我們了解說選手受傷的風險相對高所以要承保的這個保險公司可能相對少"},{"start":6741.13,"end":6763.319,"text":"那所以我們是不是可以參考學生保險條例用招標的方式來責定保險公司或者用跟公營的保險公司來簽訂契約等方式喔那想請教署長你認為這樣規劃可行嗎報告委員我們分兩個部分第一部分就是我們在短期的部分目前我們希望在教育部用行政規則的方式來補足選手在"},{"start":6763.999,"end":6765.54,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案"},{"start":6782.532,"end":6804.782,"text":"公會來幫我們做一個研究看是不是在整個長期的部分透過國外的一些債保險的一些單位的一個尋找來解決這個問題因為債保險的部分如果找不到國內是沒有任何商業的保險公司願意去承接這個業務的所以跟公營的這個銀行去那部分其實意義是一樣的喔 了解"},{"start":6808.177,"end":6821.128,"text":"另外這個現行的條文當然我們是對選手在培訓或參賽期間會致使短期失能或是身心障礙或死亡我們現在現行是給予一次的慰問金所以"},{"start":6823.77,"end":6851.014,"text":"傷害是長期的所以我還要再強調一次就是說選手如果受傷幸運的話可能一個月後就可以回到賽場可是如果不幸的話可能他的職業生涯就沒了所以我們希望說透過修法的方式可以更進一步來照顧選手的這個健康那可是關於後續的醫療照顧或者這個就業輔導的部分不曉得署長你有什麼看法"},{"start":6851.394,"end":6872.238,"text":"目前這部分我們都有基本的一個要點在進行當中,包括選手的退役之後,不管它是什麼原因的退役,我們都有一個就業輔導辦法。但是我們這次也在修這個行政規則的部分,我們想到說,我們為什麼從他受傷日開始,比方說他今天如果合約是1月到12月,然後他11月受傷了,我們從11月開始給他一整年的"},{"start":6875.179,"end":6877.28,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":6905.579,"end":6914.763,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國"},{"start":6935.65,"end":6952.174,"text":"關於球場的養護今年即將要退役的這個中信兄弟的球星周思齊就有特別出一本書那他有強調說好的球場對台灣棒球運動發展非常非常的重要那署長之前你有說過安全優質的這個競賽的場地跟關賽的環境是職業運動發展的這個"},{"start":6958.575,"end":6959.856,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等二、審查委員柯志恩等二、審查委員柯志恩等二、審查委員"},{"start":6978.706,"end":6982.23,"text":"上一屆期末的時候,我有針對球場的養護來做出預算提案,就是說希望體育署要督導專案實行的成效。那很遺憾的是,像桃園球場,它雖然有獲得中央的經費來整治排水跟草皮,可是整修的進度看起來好像不如預期。"},{"start":7001.929,"end":7013.799,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民"},{"start":7022.546,"end":7032.43,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。゚"},{"start":7034.976,"end":7036.437,"text":"委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":7056.233,"end":7064.58,"text":"我昨天有看過照片啦大概已經草皮都長得差不多了尤其那個顏色可能沒有那麼的綠但是呢今天中華職棒已經派一組人去勘查縣長會館也來決定如果OK過兩天就會有試行的一個比賽試試看如果OK接下來應該就可以比賽那這部分呢我們也會持續來宣導地方政府就是說在草皮養護跟其他的"},{"start":7082.156,"end":7084.079,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":7098.939,"end":7116.537,"text":"好 那我還是要提醒因為我們其實像桃園球場我們補助其實高達有六成所以其實我們應該要扮演一個督導的角色就是我們跟地方政府要協力來把這個場地做好所以也請體育署這邊還是要盡心不要讓桃園球場這樣的事情發生在賽季中發生"},{"start":7121.983,"end":7125.486,"text":"最後簡單講一下,我們體育署有一個運動設施規劃設計及施作常見缺失參考的手冊。這個內容很詳盡的講述各個類型的運動場地、場館的施作參考。像這次棒球場的案例,我們向外延伸到各個運動項目。"},{"start":7144.505,"end":7169.251,"text":"我想了解說我們是不是有相關的預警的機制來因應工程進度如果延宕的後續問題像說我們列出草皮生長狀況怎麼樣代表情況不樂觀那它會牽動整體的工程進度等等那後續如果有即將的賽事要在這個場地舉辦那如果來不及開放那我們是不是可以及早啟動這個多方的協商機制來研擬這個備案那以確保民眾觀賽跟這個參與"},{"start":7171.792,"end":7179.38,"text":"兩、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":7189.531,"end":7197.373,"text":"議員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案 案件及文化委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案 案件及文"},{"start":7215.058,"end":7226.227,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬"},{"start":7246.036,"end":7253.559,"text":"委員早市長好最近我們國立政治大學達賢圖書館旁邊有一個景觀池正在舉辦命名比賽市長有沒有看到這個新聞我沒注意到這個新聞好 就是進行命名比賽讓學生來提案然後大家來投票那現在目前還在投票當中目前投票領先的這個名稱叫做經文池那經文池呢"},{"start":7274.867,"end":7298.257,"text":"市長有沒有聽過他是誰他是韓團NewJeans裡面重要的成員那雖然說政大有聲明說這個只是一個人氣投票不代表正式命名但我是認為竟然已經開放投票那也是一種校園民主的展現那市長你覺得學校之後應不應該要來尊重這個投票的結果"},{"start":7299.989,"end":7321.559,"text":"委員報告,因為我對這個活動不了解,我覺得還是要看學校一開始公布出來的一個規則。對,跟市長討論有幾個往例喔。例如說2019年的時候,台北大學有一個案例,就是學校要為新宿舍來做命名的票選。當時票選第一名的名稱叫做是在哈囉。"},{"start":7322.779,"end":7343.309,"text":"但是學校沒有買單學校之後用的方式是這個宿舍的地下一樓叫做是在哈樓那上面的宿舍還是給他另外一個名字叫做陳希樓某種程度上可以說是沒收這個投票的結果那2017年的時候北藝大北藝大我們有一隻校牛嘛非常有名的校牛也舉辦了命名的投票當時獲得第一名的名稱叫做奧米加跑酵獸因為"},{"start":7350.552,"end":7367.214,"text":"學生希望給予這隻小牛祝福讓他可以非常的長壽所以這隻小牛就叫做澳米加袍小壽所以政大這個投票目前還在投票當中但我想全台灣都在看那我還是希望說竟然已經開放投票其實要去尊重這個民主投票的結果"},{"start":7368.015,"end":7394.378,"text":"那也請教育部可以來了解關心接下來跟部長討論的是我們教育部有在推動一個很重要的計劃叫做新世代學生宿舍提升計劃那我們的新世代學生宿舍提升計劃省基部糾正說我們的預算質詢率不佳那居住正義是整個台灣年輕世代大家都很關心的在學校裡面的住宿居住問題也是非常的重要"},{"start":7394.978,"end":7412.956,"text":"那我們既然提出了這個新世代學生宿舍計畫其中很重要還包括我們要來補助在校外的弱勢學生我們要給他租金補貼嘛對不對其實學生當然都非常的需要需求度很高那我們執行率卻不佳這是發生什麼事呢"},{"start":7414.667,"end":7416.368,"text":"對,那我們目前的執行率有沒有提升?連續幾年的預算執行率?"},{"start":7444.645,"end":7471.361,"text":"我們是不是請副市長詢問一下?可以!謝謝委員的關心除了剛才市長所講的社會住宅以外其他的校內宿舍的補助主要是因為根據工程的進度會持續那目前都已經持續在提升而且我們從今年開始已經推出新宿舍計畫的2.0然後針對學校的一個新建或者是改建的床位的那個補助的額度會再往上提升"},{"start":7471.821,"end":7489.318,"text":"公審的部分,因為前幾年其實也遇到疫情,也有這個時間性的延宕。公審的部分當然是考量他的條件,但是校外弱勢學生租金補貼,這個需求絕對是在的。我們現在最新一年度的預算執行率是多少?"},{"start":7490.933,"end":7504.643,"text":"我們補助校外弱勢學生的租金是,跟委員報告,過去那1、1、2年以前我們是根據它的主要來源才源來自於那個內政部的住宅的錢那主要根據各縣是用2400塊到每個月2400到3600的這樣一個補助"},{"start":7508.846,"end":7509.447,"text":"市長,您知道嗎?市長,您知道嗎?"},{"start":7523.649,"end":7532.634,"text":"你現在這個預算執行率不到三成是連續五年加總起來平均啊因為你們上路的第一年的執行率只有13%太低了那當時你們跟我們講說因為第一次補貼剛出來新的可能宣傳不足學生還不知道"},{"start":7542.08,"end":7568.673,"text":"那所以隔年開始我們要當時的教委會要求你們要加強宣傳的力道嘛若是學生怎麼沒有需求當然有所以執行率確實我給你們系部去看了持續在提升當中最新已經來過超到超過八成了那你們給我的所知還在給我三成還要我在那邊去看那個細項所以啊這個很重要好不好不然你們審計部還要再糾正一次這個你們預算執行率自己去把它說明清楚"},{"start":7569.073,"end":7580.873,"text":"已經超過八成,代表我們有努力,學生有看見,大家有需求,對不對?這個去把它說明清楚。接下來我要教育部請回,我要請體育署署長。"},{"start":7584.753,"end":7589.116,"text":"委員長首先我要跟你關心這個體育署要升格為體育部或者體育暨運動發展部這個是我們準總統賴清德的政見馬上新內閣未來新內閣來就會開始來進行這個籌備以及討論那同時也是我個人在競選立委的政見所以我非常的支持但是呢有人在詢問說現在要求體育署現在就要提出體育署升格體育部相關的規劃我是反對的"},{"start":7615.073,"end":7620.517,"text":"因為我認為體育署升格體育部他不是改一個字也不是只有處理組織的問題而已是我們未來這個升格之後是我們台灣如何去面對我們將來的運動體育發展包含了運動產業"},{"start":7630.384,"end":7632.546,"text":"總總的這是一個我們整個國家的體育政策整體盤整的契機所以我覺得不許倉促絕對不許倉促你為了趕時間啊匆匆提出來到底我現在問啊到底我們要叫體育及運動發展部還是運動發展部還是體育部這個當中未來涉及到裡面的任務編組"},{"start":7652.068,"end":7653.61,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":7667.37,"end":7669.832,"text":"要邀請我們民間的這麼多的選手啊體育人士啊運動產業等等很多的專家大家一起討論有充足的討論之後才來去處理法的問題所以呢我要再次的提醒署長這也不是個人的意志事實上這是既有的政治慣例跟倫理啊"},{"start":7686.246,"end":7707.507,"text":"因為過去我在台北市議會我們也經歷過首長不同政黨的銜接那當時柯文哲市長在卸任之前的兩個月就推出了重大政策悠遊卡的公司要新櫃案馬上就換了新的市長蔣安安上任之後他就說這個不符合政治原理與慣例因為你前任首長做的決策"},{"start":7708.248,"end":7721.892,"text":"但是後面包含預算包括後面的這個執行都是後任首長要來執行的所以這個我希望你們要非常的謹慎尤其是體育署升格為體育部這是國家大事我們台灣體育人等了多久了絕對要經過充足的討論才能來進行籌備好不好"},{"start":7727.506,"end":7752.148,"text":"好,然後最後一點時間要關心的是我們的這個運動性平保障我就是一點提醒啦我們這個體育署2017年自己有女性參與運動白皮書同時2020年我們也簽署了女性及運動宣言我們自己也提出了性別友善運動設施空間及環境規劃的指引但是我看了你們的預算的編列我們其實並沒有去對應到我們簽的這個女性運動的公約"},{"start":7754.97,"end":7782.798,"text":"這一點我希望體育署因為你現在還在處理明年度預算的報編對不對還沒有報給院嘛我希望你們要去盤整我們這些宣言公約不能說只簽署了之後回來我們還是做我們自己的這樣沒有達到我們提升性平的這些約束所以希望我們現在在報編明年的預算我們要重新盤整要來把我們簽署的這些女性運動的宣言的精神必須要去融合納入我們的整個整體的業務編列好不好"},{"start":7784.879,"end":7785.219,"text":"謝謝委員提醒。"},{"start":7808.089,"end":7808.29,"text":"有請次長跟高教司長"},{"start":7817.914,"end":7837.659,"text":"早安,今天在談到大學法跟國體法的修正我們來看一下高教我們目前遇到的很多個案的狀況可是我覺得個案的狀況其實反映了整個通案的政策執行的問題來第一個就是上個禮拜我跟范瑀委員陪台北大學同學在教育部前面開記者會我想你們應該都非常清楚到底發生了什麼事情"},{"start":7838.499,"end":7858.814,"text":"我們持續在往下追蹤竟然發現這兩天學生出來開記者會說學校的副校長以代繳學生會費的方法要找學生出來參選學校代表請問兩位有注意到這個事情嗎?我們有注意到這個新聞那我們現在離民看看實際的情況到底是怎樣所以你們已經積極的跟學校溝通了嗎?"},{"start":7860.235,"end":7864.177,"text":"學生在表達很多意見甚至因為學校設施不足的問題跟學校發生討論之前台體大的事情我跟楊瓊瑛委員積極協助舞蹈系的學生"},{"start":7888.135,"end":7916.876,"text":"那後續呢當然非常感謝教育部跟高教師快速的出面斡旋了這個事情事情得以平息可是我們收到另外一個覺得非常震撼覺得不可思議的消息當學生的舞蹈系成果畢業展的時候竟然校內出了一個命令說請高層主管都不要出席舞蹈系的演出照最後只有一個季節系的系主任去了其中一場我們問了學生也問了學校裡面的一些同仁確實有這個消息請問您怎麼看"},{"start":7919.571,"end":7940.425,"text":"這算不算是一種對學生的秋後算賬?這件事我們現在還沒有了解,不過我們趕快去了解一下,如果真的有這樣也是很不當的作為。好,那我們希望一週內你們可以盡速去理解,然後跟我們辦公室再討論。但是教育部的這個事情,我相信教育部你們後來因為針對這個舞蹈系空間的事情,你們決定給他們3000萬去整理相關的設施。"},{"start":7943.647,"end":7943.767,"text":"請教育部"},{"start":7961.42,"end":7979.726,"text":"好 謝謝那所以剛剛根據我講的這些事情不管是台北大學或是台體大的部分還有就是捍衛學生的表議權這件事情我相信教育部都要更積極的有一些進度那除了我們剛剛說一週內相關事情個案的了解之外也希望在一個月內教育部針對這個相關事情有相關調查跟檢討報告好 沒有問題好 謝謝好 下一個兩位請回 謝謝那接下來請體育署長 謝謝"},{"start":7989.395,"end":8006.571,"text":"委員好,之前一直在跟署長談到性侵而虐、毒品、假球、霸凌、不當對待、零容忍的問題,我相信署長一定非常有印象。那去年12月我揭露了體育署的補助賽事中,你們有違反兒少法對孩子施以虐待的教練,繼續以顧問的名義在賽事中出現。"},{"start":8007.872,"end":8031.608,"text":"當時你們說這是林榮仁那我提醒了你們也說會去查那我們就繼續等可是呢這個會期我發現同一個教練他以顧問的名義繼續出現在同一個協會的另外一個賽事裡面當時您的回應說因為他不是拿體育署的補助款可是我們說必須要廣泛的去看林榮仁這件事情那我們也繼續等待可是在上個禮拜4月13號他又出現在相關的賽事賽後技術會議中同一個人署長你怎麼看"},{"start":8037.711,"end":8041.286,"text":"報告委員這部分我回去會要求協會將它排除在外。"},{"start":8042.403,"end":8050.908,"text":"直接說,排除在外,確定?對好,我們希望一週內可以得到相關的回應好,謝謝署長,謝謝非常謝謝署長這麼積極的態度那接下來看一下這個是體育署補助中華足協的企業聯賽上個禮拜本來有一場記者會是發生什麼事情呢?因為中華足協居然讓性侵案判刑確定的球員繼續出現在登錄名單上可是後來可能消息走漏,沒關係球隊跟足協就宣稱這是誤會好,那我們來看一下"},{"start":8070.839,"end":8073.12,"text":"可是這個是體育署一年補助兩三千萬的聯賽然後其實這個選手他早在2022年的12月台南地方法院就一審判決罪名成立可是一直到2023年的6月在體育署補助的聯賽當中還出現這個選手一樣林榮忍這件事情署長你怎麼看"},{"start":8090.12,"end":8110.012,"text":"幫委員 這部分我們已經要求台鋼江這名球員把他移除在球隊以外好 謝謝署長 謝謝那我想相關林榮仁我相信署長你一定也認同自己身為孩子的父親跟自己身為大學教授所以我在想說後續我們會再跟體育署持續保持討論關於這個林榮仁相關的政策也希望體育署可以在一個月內提供相關調查跟檢討報告 可以嗎"},{"start":8113.714,"end":8130.883,"text":"接下來是我們可能是我們大人的疏失但是造成孩子的犧牲這位選手是在2023年參加亞洲短道競速滑冰錦標賽當時這是正式的國際賽事他還拿到了青年男子B組500公尺金牌很棒對不對但是回到台灣他說"},{"start":8132.384,"end":8136.627,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法"},{"start":8159.946,"end":8179.528,"text":"他只是分組名稱而回到當時國光獎章給獎辦法那個時候還沒有拆分所以其實是把15歲到18歲都放在同一個續獎的範圍所以也才會出現明明16歲的這個孩子他是符合原來設定的年紀規範可是因為大會的分組名稱修正體育署不願意給獎可是我們回過來看喔"},{"start":8181.57,"end":8205.764,"text":"時間也好,還有兩分鐘這個給獎這件事情呢本來單項協會在選手資格送到全國體總審查小組的時候第一關刑事審查這個小孩被刷掉了然後呢再來這個案子根本就沒有被全國體總送到國光獎金的初審會議上也就不會進入體育署的副審會議所以呢對於審查結果不符這個事情選手跟家長都沒有辦法進行訴願救濟也就沒有辦法進行審查"},{"start":8207.245,"end":8228.568,"text":"可是協會其實本來應該要為選手做更積極的爭取不是嗎?我們來看這個孩子絕對不會是個案喔之前在2013年WBC棒協也是沒有把這個比賽納入國光獎章的續獎賽事當時體育署的態度是說重寬處理也就是說有沒有可能其實這個事情而且我們來下一頁"},{"start":8230.146,"end":8257.47,"text":"這個孩子的個案他目前無設獎金他只有獎章他其實是一個非常重要的鼓勵性質有沒有有沒有什麼可能發生了這個中間一連串我剛講這個事情難道我們政府不能給孩子多一點的鼓勵嗎我剛說他無設獎金他只有獎章那政府真的不能給這個孩子或是相關的選手有覺得更積極的是台灣的政府為他們做他們非常重要的後盾嗎請署長說明一下"},{"start":8257.85,"end":8274.35,"text":"八位委員這部分因為牽涉了比較細部的部分我想我回去重啟調查然後來看看是不是有機會來給這位孩子能夠有一個回復他的榮譽。好,謝謝署長就是我第一個要求希望由體育署召開重啟相關調查不管是體總或是滑冰協會"},{"start":8275.251,"end":8298.459,"text":"還有這個青年層級如果無關獎金而只是獎章鼓勵我相信署長你也認同還有什麼樣的辦法跟審查機制可以鼓勵更多的青年選手在不同的單項運動裡面還有就是目前單項協會行政量能不足我相信署長你一定非常清楚還有承辦單位可能過於僵化有沒有相關賽事漏報可能的救濟進行相關辦法的修訂這個部分也拜託體育署積極進行討論是好謝謝署長謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":8304.902,"end":8309.086,"text":"謝謝陳培宇委員時間掌控得很好來我們接下來我們請羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員"},{"start":8322.403,"end":8336.187,"text":"好 次長早 柯志恩召委所提的大學法及第十三十五條還有專科學校法的第四十四條修正草案修法是利益良善但教育部已經表態不支持因為用家庭所得進額所用稅率12%以內的納稅單位"},{"start":8338.968,"end":8346.336,"text":"擬具為121萬以下,約佔總納稅單位的92%,所需增加預算約411.81億元經費,約相當於113年的高校預算,決法定的一個預算32.27%。那我想因此避免大幅度的排擠其他教育預算,所以你們不同意修法。"},{"start":8361.291,"end":8387.221,"text":"市長,如果不要用家庭所得進而適用稅率,改用所得五等分的一個概念來採集,這是從羅倫茲曲線和後來的GINI的一個係數簡化出來的,學術上和事務上都較為採用。改用這個所得五等分呢,讓最低的20%所得者免學費,你覺得行不行?如果讓最低的20%所得者免學費,這樣大概要多少經費?"},{"start":8388.321,"end":8398.526,"text":"跟委員報告首先第一點教育部沒有反對我們並沒有反對這個修法我們只是說明說這個需要額外預算支應這個必須先說明這一點"},{"start":8399.588,"end":8418.788,"text":"那第二點就是說如果20%的話很可能跟目前的我們已經有了269億投入的289億可能不會差距太多啦這個大概是很可能我們現在既有投入的就已經快涵蓋了這20%這個可能性很高"},{"start":8420.12,"end":8438.582,"text":"所以如果要再擴大的話其實我們是支持就能夠更擴大其實我們覺得這個利益很重要因為其實老實說譬如說我想那個像今年我們來拉近這個公私立其實幾個私立大學其實他們的第二階段他那個報道率"},{"start":8439.458,"end":8460.439,"text":"就是那個應該說他報名大概都在提升所以這個是很明顯有好處的所以如果可以的話其實階段性的也許可以再進一步的拉近然後再看怎樣這也是另外一個考慮的方向所以你可以認同這樣子我們從頭到尾沒有反對這個修法方向我們必須先聲明"},{"start":8461.65,"end":8482.635,"text":"好那依教育部的推算算法齁我覺得柯志恩委員的版本會有92%的比例的人免學費齁那但是現在我建議只取最低的20%的一個比例人免學費人數預算大幅下降又能幫助到真正需求需要幫助的人教育部有什麼困難的話我想可以早點讓我們知道"},{"start":8484.158,"end":8508.533,"text":"跟委員報告,其實教育部在執行上面基本上不會有什麼困難,最主要就是一個額外預算之一,因為不要去排擠現有預算的。當然就是要爭取更多預算。對,爭取更多預算,再爭取到更多預算,我想執行上我們的都...那其實除了委員所說的話,其實還有另外兩個考量,我們就跟委員報告,第一個當然是說因為我們其實有"},{"start":8509.253,"end":8527.502,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「"},{"start":8533.405,"end":8541.653,"text":"可以,那我們就來提出一份評估報告給委員參考。我想這個我們都很關注齁,尤其召委非常用心。那接下來我想請那個體育署署長。"},{"start":8543.753,"end":8566.739,"text":"署長剛剛其他的委員都在講喔未來有可能會有一個運動發展部類似這樣子的一個部你這個位置未來有可能是做部長的喔那我們剛剛也開了記者會我們也非常的認同一定要有一個運動發展部那我還是要很沉重的跟你講一件事情署長您答應我的事情沒有做到我必須點出來您聽聽看教育部認可的選手我上次已經講過67號劉君梅"},{"start":8570.498,"end":8585.108,"text":"上次4月3號,署長你在委員會透過畫面直送全球播放而且是直播的,你給我答應要幫忙募款找企業贊助,做了嗎?報告委員目前我們正在應該說有一個標案要委託一個"},{"start":8586.008,"end":8612.753,"text":"兩位來協助這件事情那目前正在進行中不過的確委員這塊我們會加快腳步已經九天了是署長對不起我非常生氣非常的沉痛我今天早上打電話給劉君梅我說有沒有一通電話跟你聯絡他說完全都沒有在九天前我跟他很開心的分享這個喜悅到現在九天了完全無消無息我要告訴你是速度太慢慢到你接下來發包完也幾乎可以不用找他了為什麼"},{"start":8613.353,"end":8615.736,"text":"劉君美已經在4月12號上網募款從4月12開始算短短兩天就已經募得18萬4天後就募得了60萬到了現在已經258人響應現在已經募得了86萬我們的教育部在幹嘛我們的體育署在幹嘛"},{"start":8635.08,"end":8646.285,"text":"我真的非常的難過你知道我今天我們準備的跑破音是什麼嗎是要你原本不是寫事務官做不好就下台捏是同仁幫我寫說要你下台捏"},{"start":8647.912,"end":8673.579,"text":"我基於我們之間的溝通我基於我們之間還覺得你有在處理我請他們要改掉就是對於事務官一個尊重但今天我去詢問了劉君梅得到這樣子的一個回答對不起我沒辦法接受他在利用募資平台最後來幫忙自己我要告訴大家署長你講話講得很大聲但是做不好我覺得真的是讓大家一笑大方"},{"start":8674.399,"end":8702.032,"text":"劉君梅選手透過自己的募款行動告訴全體國人要活著只能靠自己要活著不能靠國家我覺得這樣子對我來說我沒辦法接受目前體育署所答應我的事情我今天第一次這麼生氣第一次在這邊這麼大聲的跟您講我希望我們說到要做到男人之間的話語男人之間的承諾尤其對於體育選手我們絕對不能夠讓他們有任何的委屈可不可以再給我一次承諾"},{"start":8702.472,"end":8727.634,"text":"好,報告委員這部分我會來努力加快速度我想就一通電話你先安撫選手一通電話讓他們知道政府我們的國家願意做他的靠山他不需要這麼心急今天不是劉俊梅打電話來告訴我是我自己追蹤的他不是一個讓我們覺得說他就是到處求助的人他願意自己來自立自強但我看不下去我們的選手非亞奧運的選手有多少人等待著我們給予他的關懷跟關注署長"},{"start":8730.609,"end":8758.371,"text":"可以再加強嗎?沒有問題。好,謝謝。市長,我另外想跟您請問一下,這次東華大學校舍損傷嚴重。是。您知道嗎?知道。盧市長、周杰倫都捐款,捐一百萬。校方預估災損重建的經費高達新台幣二十億元,目前僅募得了六千萬元。校長出來說明為什麼國立大學需要募款的原因。好,聽起來我們都可以體諒。"},{"start":8759.352,"end":8777.448,"text":"本席說一下但是因為國立大學民國88年開始各國立大學整體經費來源由原本的教育部全部補助改而定額補助學校自籌兩種方式來辦理因此國立大學經費不再是教育部來全額我想"},{"start":8778.149,"end":8798.521,"text":"各校推動校務所需另應自籌經費,這次的災損經費如此龐大,我們還在用88年的這個規定。東華所以規定提報了災損申請,但是教育部國科會都說只能部分補助及其餘的要需要透過各界善心補助,才能夠渡過這個難關。"},{"start":8800.682,"end":8814.687,"text":"這樣的一個做法我覺得我沒辦法接受我調出教育部主管各級學校所屬機構災害防救的要點裡面第七項復原重建的階段工作要項就有提到第六個"},{"start":8815.447,"end":8830.715,"text":"負原經費的籌措以及第七個硬體設施的負原重建本席要請教育部幫幫忙東華大學需要政府的資源如果沒有辦法補助這麼多錢我是希望能夠用先前921的方式"},{"start":8831.515,"end":8860.107,"text":"當時教育部有一個921地震公私立學校修復重建教學建築與設施的專案貸款利息補助作為實施要點由中央銀行提撥郵政儲金的一個轉存款供航庫辦理學校修復重建銷學的一個建築設施重建這個部分目前國民黨黨團15日也送出我們4月3號大地震的災後重建條例初步匡列150億元但是我要講"},{"start":8861.735,"end":8875.226,"text":"將東華大學公務設施民宅重建都整體納入希望教育部能夠一起來支持讓整個災後的重建得到法律位階的一個確保這是我們在做的但教育部現在能不能給我們一個承諾來幫忙協助東華大學"},{"start":8877.768,"end":8899.623,"text":"是,跟委員報告,我們4月10號已經會刊過,那它目前的災損在那個國科會儀器以外是18.3億,這18.3億我們分成三年。然後特別在後兩年的地方,那邊大概會佈下大概是15億到16億,那個會來爭取行政院的這一個專項,那目前行政院正在跨部會協調。"},{"start":8900.624,"end":8922.312,"text":"因為整體還有其他的縣市合起來大概是29到30億那我們會一起來爭取這一個就是專項的經費來協助這個重建以上所提這兩件事情我一定會盯到底我一定會注意到我們後面的動向我希望不管是次長還有署長答應我們的事情都要做到我們一起來做他們的靠山是 謝謝好 謝謝羅廷偉委員 謝謝次長我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":9237.455,"end":9238.415,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9255.424,"end":9275.236,"text":"委員早市長早我今天也是要跟你談就是大學法的相關問題啦市長應該非常知道北大生北大學生會出來抗議的事情那出現就是我們的學生代表依照大學法保障的學生自治學生會代表居然在"},{"start":9276.096,"end":9298.796,"text":"校務基金會的管理委員會當中被校友會長反映關麥克風校長還冷回說這不是你的麥克風是學校的麥克風居然他是校務基金管理委員會的委員委員會居然可以不聽學生的聲音請問次長這要怎麼辦"},{"start":9302.965,"end":9322.002,"text":"跟委員報告齁,這個事情我們也在...也在瞭解中嗎?沒有沒有,這個我們大概是...我們也有跟校長溝通啦齁,這的確不好。那個...在這種過程當中當然還是應該要來跟學生充分溝通。是,那在請問次長齁,"},{"start":9323.263,"end":9348.832,"text":"你知不知道這個同一所大學最近又傳出都上新聞了副校長跟系學會應該是講系主任啦這邊寫錯系主任介入了學生會的選舉幫學生繳會費請學生吃飯要學生為了系上的利益參選請問一下次長這個是不是已經踐踏了學生自治啊"},{"start":9349.651,"end":9364.271,"text":"跟委員報告這件事情因為我們也是這兩天知道這件事情我們還在瞭解真實的情況當然如果真的是這樣的話的確是非常的不宜因為是破壞整個跟學生之間的信任關係瞭解"},{"start":9364.731,"end":9383.373,"text":"這不只是不宜這應該就是已經違反了大學法的行為那當然就是說因為次長還在調查中嘛那什麼時候可以給本委員本委員會一個報告好嗎我跟關心的委員我們剛剛說兩天一個禮拜一個禮拜內一個禮拜內"},{"start":9385.996,"end":9412.151,"text":"違反《大學法》也希望教育部有具體行為好嗎?因為我想這個已經上新聞了各校都在看這樣的行為我想就是非常的讓人遺憾也蠻誇張的那當然我覺得這個其實跟我們的制度規範就是好像被就是我認為是被操弄了我想次長非常了解我們校務基金會設置條例有規定"},{"start":9413.051,"end":9431.707,"text":"委員其余由校長遴選提經校務會議同意後聘任之。這個沒有異議嘛那教育部訂的行政命令第五條有就是這個校務基金管理委員會委員應有學生代表至少一人這沒錯嘛"},{"start":9433.969,"end":9450.118,"text":"國立臺北大學的場景就是在這個校務基金管理委員會涉及到錢的事情特別敏感 對不對所以我們要有清楚的規範那我想請問次長學生代表的意思是不是就是由學生推選的才叫學生代表"},{"start":9452.383,"end":9475.309,"text":"目前這個如果按照現在的條文的話它基本上還是看學校自己的訂定的方式。市長這是學生代表如果是校方指派的、校方推選的就不叫學生代表吧?那我們是說學生會長都有校長推選好啦。學生代表、民意代表什麼叫做代表?"},{"start":9475.849,"end":9488.398,"text":"民意代表就是由人民選舉出來的嘛,要不然我們過去那個老國大為什麼被認為不是代表?跟委員報告,就是說他的學生代表的確應該要有學生的一個"},{"start":9490.939,"end":9513.933,"text":"就是他應該有學生一個基礎啦,一個意見基礎。應該是學生推選出來的嗎?那只是說他意見基礎怎麼產生出來,他可能看是走院,看是怎樣。那不會是由校方領選推派,推舉的學校指派的吧?應該說所謂的指派,因為這還是要看學校的具體制度。但是如果說學校指派的話,他不應該是空白授權。"},{"start":9515.661,"end":9537.819,"text":"學校指派不應該痛白授權。對,那因為你還是有可能,譬如說他可能有些中間制度是限制即使是由學校來就某幾位當中產生一人,因為最好產生一人嘛,產生一人不見得一定是一個普選制度,但是他一定還是要做某種的約束。當然可以不用是普選,可是一定是要學生由下而上推選嘛。"},{"start":9538.399,"end":9551.564,"text":"學生推不出來的時候你要再另外想辦法那個是另外一個狀況嘛這樣同意吧原則是如此吧由下而上嘛不應該在學生已經推選的時候你還想要指派嗎"},{"start":9553.424,"end":9575.416,"text":"應該是,如果他有一個制度名定,就應該按制度來走。應該就是原則上由學生由下上推選。那我們看到宜蘭大學發生什麼事?學生會推薦名單之後,你看這邊都是他們的原始的同學,我們這邊拿到的。學生已經推選了名單了,你看下面學生還推選,上面居然還出現學務處推薦。"},{"start":9578.345,"end":9581.006,"text":"學務處推薦不就是校方嗎?因為學務處學務長是校長指派的。結果呢就是學生推選的123456、123455名之外,學務處再推薦4名。你看最後校長就勾選了學務處推薦的。"},{"start":9597.134,"end":9599.637,"text":"依然大學他的相關的規定不過"},{"start":9616.574,"end":9643.17,"text":"目前來講他的單位還是有學生會所以我們還是必須檢視一下但是問題是說人家學生自己已經推選出的是議長、副議長、仲裁主委這都是本來就有民意基礎然後學生團體推薦了那就是那校方學務處是校方嘛又去推薦四個跟人家不一樣的最後更有趣的是校長就偏偏領選不是學生團體推薦的那不就是在製造學生的矛盾"},{"start":9643.75,"end":9652.094,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬"},{"start":9662.119,"end":9664.06,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等二、審查委員柯志恩等二、審查委員柯志恩等二、審查委員"},{"start":9692.459,"end":9717.74,"text":"校會同意權以我們立法院同意權很清楚嘛就是我們要同意那我們要同意的話不管你的規定是過半還是相對多數還是三分之二就是有一個同意權那某大學就在這個同意權行使的過程中有校會的代表希望表決結果副校長這都有上新聞還表達說表決是不尊重"},{"start":9718.32,"end":9739.915,"text":"表決是在編詩投票表決這些就是不行然後最後依照慣例就沒有表決請問那個同意權出現爭議的時候不讓大家表決這樣有符合你們相關的剛講的這個基金會的就是我們立法院通過的那個同意權的精神嗎請問次長"},{"start":9743.058,"end":9753.467,"text":"委員報告,因為看起來這個新聞應該是幾年前,那實際的情況?你們有解決嗎?你們後來有做操作型定義有解決過嗎?"},{"start":9756.714,"end":9779.22,"text":"報告委員我們再去檢視一下你們再檢視一下那我想剛剛那幾個例子已經看出很多的問題了第一個學生參與沒有保障學生代表已經推選了結果學校還來指派第二個校務會的同意權已經淪為校長副校長的橡皮圖章那是不是教育部應該考慮"},{"start":9780.14,"end":9783.022,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。 »:"},{"start":9799.278,"end":9814.616,"text":"跟委員報告我們再看看因為也許是在執法或者是行政執導的層次來處理我們再檢視一下情形那多久內可以給本委員就是一個本席跟委員一個報告好嗎我們是一個月給委員一個報告最後因為周偉晶站起來了"},{"start":9815.177,"end":9837.637,"text":"我想這些都反映了大學治理的兩大現況問題學生參與沒有保障校長的權利在大學自主下真的缺乏監督我們上一屆我們柯昭偉來不及參與的大學法修正案在我們委員會中跨黨派出委員會學代五分之一後來就沒有下文了請問教育部大學法到底修不修?"},{"start":9838.673,"end":9865.416,"text":"跟委員報告,這還是持續的。持續在努力中,對不對?那我們現在把公聽會走完了,那後續還會繼續依照進度來提出這個修法的一個建立。那因為就是我不確定,當然就是說如果次長有續任我很歡迎喔,那但是如果沒有的話,就是這個可不可以進入交接清單。我昨天也跟部長去說談高教治理論,我們明確這個進入交接清單好不好?"},{"start":9866.136,"end":9866.577,"text":"主席張雅琳委員"},{"start":9896.864,"end":9897.367,"text":"謝謝莊瑞。那麼有請次長。"},{"start":9905.796,"end":9926.436,"text":"市長好,我想大家都很關注這次東華大學失火的問題,那前面已經有委員關心有關於硬體的部分,那接下來我想我們就針對於因為這個實驗室大火造成很多學生他的可能他的畢業啊還有師生的一些論文啊都會有一些問題,那我不曉得說在目前教育部的規劃是怎麼樣會來協助處理這個問題?"},{"start":9928.932,"end":9942.162,"text":"是不是先跟委員報告在財損部分4月10號我們到東華已經做了初步的這個部分不用回答我已經看到我在前面有聽到了那協助書生的這部分我們是不是請我們副市長做一個更具體的答覆好 謝謝"},{"start":9945.53,"end":9954.422,"text":"根據東華大學所造成的這些損害的話目前我們大概是會積極除了用協助師生來處理會分三年來處理"},{"start":9960.29,"end":9987.676,"text":"主要是根據我們教育部的公務預算,那也會去爭取行政院的一個災害的準備金或是第二級備金。對,但是我想問的是比較軟體的部分,就是學生畢業這件事情,因為他的研究受到影響嘛,或是師生的論文這件事情。是,跟委員報告,目前啊,比如說學生有需要,比如說因為實驗室啊等等,我們有協調附近像慈濟大學等等來做協助,那也讓師生一定都可以,特別是學生一定能夠順利完成他的學業。"},{"start":9988.436,"end":9993.217,"text":"那老師升等的部分會不會有受到影響呢?不會,有需要我們都會全面的來協助。"},{"start":9993.885,"end":10018.319,"text":"好那這部分的話可能我們還是會持續的來關心這個部分那再來就是說因為這次的大火這麼嚴重啊那主要原因是因為說花蓮花蓮雖然有化學消防車但是是屬於泡沫型的化學消防車並不是這一次火災所需要的乾粉型喔那那這個我我看了一下我想每一次發生一個事件都是一個檢查我們現在流程的一個很好的機會"},{"start":10019.78,"end":10039.813,"text":"所以我看到大專院校其實是有一個校園安全手冊裡面有規定每一年至少要開一次校園安全聯繫協調匯報要來號召我們相關的檢調警政消防公務交通地震等等的單位來協助學校來處理校園跟周邊安全的問題"},{"start":10041.721,"end":10065.958,"text":"那這一次呢這次的大火呢其實是花蓮在地消防隊無法撲滅的而我認為這應該是如果我們有開這個會我們應該事前就知道我們花蓮現場是沒有辦法處理的可是這一次卻好像變成是現場我看那新聞喔是現場消防員才知道這件事情經消防告知才知道這件事情所以我想要問的是說"},{"start":10067.179,"end":10087.006,"text":"我們到底有沒有學校有沒有落實我們現在所有的普遍的大學有沒有落實這一個會議那這個是不是可以請次長來回覆一下不過我先說一下我並沒有要苛責東華大學的意思因為我覺得幸好他們還是有在現場講啦不然就會造成民洋大火的問題所以可不可以請次長針對這一題"},{"start":10088.747,"end":10110.476,"text":"是跟委員報告基本上我們現在會針對其實我們當然不會去苛責東華大學我們現在全力協助他來處理災損這是最優先事項但是我們現在會以這個做一個案例因為現在要用這個案例來看到底他有發生哪些更衣問題那現在初步看起來有兩個"},{"start":10111.616,"end":10139.972,"text":"一個是剛委員所指出的這個校園安全聯繫的協導匯報這裡面我們會再來充分了解一下目前各學校執行狀況不過可能很重要的一件事情是從這次的案例看出來是說實驗室要特別挑出來看因為可能大家一般來講的話比較想像到的是一般的消防情況但是我們的大學最主要是在實驗室這次發生也是因為實驗室所以那第二個方向就是說"},{"start":10141.311,"end":10158.903,"text":"不能光是依靠外在力量,現在我們可能要求學校就針對自己的實驗室做一個盤查,特別在總務這些方面,要針對這些實驗室要先自主做第一線去擋住的規劃,這個是另外一個我們現在要去努力的方向。"},{"start":10159.616,"end":10159.876,"text":"依依依"},{"start":10175.016,"end":10198.731,"text":"財務的損失當然是其次可是學生、師生的安全是非常重要的那再來就是延續剛剛范議員委員問的這個大學法的問題就是說我們已經20年沒有修那我剛剛也有聽到次長有在回覆說我們現在已經有辦公聽會了那這些公聽會是都有邀請一些學校的一些學生代表的團體一起來加入嗎因為這次發生的前陣子發生的台北大學的問題就是"},{"start":10200.032,"end":10214.691,"text":"學校在行政會議上處理了跟學生權利有影響到的問題。所以這次的公聽會是有邀請到學生代表團體來參與的嗎?有,都有邀請。好,那我想要了解就是說我們目前那個進度規劃是怎樣?"},{"start":10215.933,"end":10241.381,"text":"因為我們公聽會已經辦理完畢不過我們辦理了九次不過跟委員報告這裡大學法修正的時候牽涉到的最厲害團體彼此的意見老實說有些是蠻尖銳的啦但是我們還是再整理一下那因為我們另外也有一個研究報告那我們會根據這個就是持續的往下走因為包含今天我們在場也還有另外一個大學法的修正草案"},{"start":10241.701,"end":10252.001,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案 案件 、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案件 、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案 案件 、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案 案件 、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案 案件 、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育"},{"start":10253.504,"end":10272.438,"text":"目前的排程我想應該是我們把這些整理完,最快看能不能下個會期,那就可以把它列上議程,不過這當然還要看接下來的,因為還是跟委員報告,但是我們一定把它列入一個重要的就是交接的要完成的事項。"},{"start":10273.058,"end":10291.726,"text":"對,因為這件事情非常重要,因為它已經這麼多年沒修,那我覺得時代的變化其實一直不停地在改變,我們還是需要與時俱進啦,所以還是要請教育部跟相關的利益團體做溝通啦,我們來把這件事情持續地去推進。再來下一個問題,就是其實前陣子二月的時候學生們也有來抗議一件事情,就是有關遊蕩犬的"},{"start":10293.727,"end":10295.028,"text":"大學其實跟其他學校不同的地方在於說校園是一個開放空間"},{"start":10316.929,"end":10330.469,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":10333.451,"end":10352.769,"text":"再來就是說因為這個選資的攻擊事件其實是持續的增加那我看到我們的遊覽權的指引裡面是有去說我們要去清查要去清查現在的這些數量啊然後會去做一些盤點這樣子然後有個消安通報的機制"},{"start":10354.29,"end":10369.883,"text":"但是我想問一下這件事情是在6月底之前就會完成嗎?因為下一個學期就要開始了,所以是6月底就會完成嗎?這個進度是這樣子?好,那其中有一個訴求,就是說學生是說我現在看那個草案裡面是沒有講到安置遊蕩權的部分。"},{"start":10370.723,"end":10388.234,"text":"那遊蕩權會造成的除了是私生的問題之外私生的安全問題因為學生是每天都要去上學的他每天都在這樣子的高風險下那第二個問題是說他可能會影響到之前台北台大那個白鼻腥的問題影響到台灣原生種的問題所以我想問一下這個安置的部分規劃是什麼"},{"start":10389.5,"end":10401.025,"text":"很初步的規劃方向是請地方的動保單位來協助安置那我們現在已經跟地方我們現在已經跟動保司有取到一個合作的我們跟農委會這邊有一直跟農業部跟那個應該是動保"},{"start":10405.847,"end":10419.672,"text":"還是那個後面負責的?委員報告我們跟農業部有初步達成共識就是有關於學校假設有遊蕩犬隻不當攻擊的時候那要進行初步安置那會請"},{"start":10420.712,"end":10433.035,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具"},{"start":10450.68,"end":10452.701,"text":"等蔡季昌委員繼續密閉之後,我們就來處理臨時提案。謝謝。謝謝主席。請劉次長跟鄭署長。好,次長及署長。"},{"start":10468.474,"end":10494.147,"text":"謝謝兩位時間只有四分鐘非常的短暫首先謝謝這個昭緯排國民體育法的這個修法當然今天沒有主條啦但是該解決的問題很著急是因為還是要趕快解決我想之前本席在立法院開過一個公聽會也謝謝署長有參加那這公聽會主要我們要馬上立即解決的什麼問題呢我們要解決的是國家代表對選手保險的問題"},{"start":10495.828,"end":10517.282,"text":"因為大家都知道台灣的商業保險裡面對國家代表隊特別是職業選手被國家徵召為國家代表隊因為他們都有薪資那我們要保障這些職業選手的權益不會因為國家徵召打了比賽之後受了傷回去之後影響他的職業生涯所以保險就成了凸顯特別重要"},{"start":10517.842,"end":10534.25,"text":"那大家也在媒體上看到包括職棒跟職籃是目前最重要的那我先請問署長今年啊接下來有多少這個重大的這個國際比賽會徵召到職業選手報告委員我們預計除了威廉瓊斯杯當然最重要還是棒球的十二強"},{"start":10535.49,"end":10553.268,"text":"所以主要這兩個,籃球跟棒球這兩個,還有排球或其他嗎?報告委員,其實我們在教育部這邊已經有在擬定行政規則依照委員當時公聽會的建議來補足這個新制的部分。好,謝謝。那我想因為如同剛剛署長所講的,因為國際比賽在即,"},{"start":10555.45,"end":10578.912,"text":"就我們不能等立法院修完國體法三讀通過之後這個早就已經大家今年都會面臨到問題啦所以今年啊被國家徵召的這些職業選手我們要立即補救措施所以我特別謝謝這個鎮署長在公聽會裡面勇於承擔我剛剛教育部的同仁也告訴我這個今天我們已經部長已經簽准了"},{"start":10581.654,"end":10607.626,"text":"透過教育部體育署補助國家代表隊培訓或參賽短期失能保險給付與薪資差額要點,就是透過這個薪資差額要點,我們來補足今年在商業保險對職業選手保障不足的部分,由這個辦法來補足,應該是這樣,沒有錯嗎?包委員,我們現在在部長核定之後接下來就是公告,那不只是今年,接下來"},{"start":10608.286,"end":10631.116,"text":"在我們找到更好的方法之前我們就用這個要點來補足所以待會呢就是說我今天沒有做提案說明是因為國體法的修法緩不濟急啦那我的修法裡面你們的建議我都支持啦所以我透過一個提案我也講了待會我會再說明那所以說我希望能夠緊述的將接下來等於說今天通過了這個辦法"},{"start":10633.137,"end":10656.975,"text":"職業選手包括這個瓊斯杯籃球包括今年年底的棒球的十二強保險的問題就解決了。包括委員我們涵蓋的是所有有薪資合約的包括甲級。職業選手有薪資合約的。對。所以這些問題在今年的比賽就可以解決了。那長期要怎麼處理我們還是回到法的修法裡面去做對職業選手做一些保障。這個大概我們的方向。那第二個問題呢這個"},{"start":10659.517,"end":10681.387,"text":"賴總統因為要支持體育部嘛這個其實我做我一方面是立法委員二方面我也是體育界人士啦我非常支持這個對國家對體育的重視那雖然這個賴總統還沒有上任啦而且要成立一個部會這個知識體大他要涉及到修法人員的編制這個我們都要多少部會怎麼調整"},{"start":10682.668,"end":10683.829,"text":"我們體育署這邊我們現在就開始來研議"},{"start":10699.502,"end":10702.004,"text":"委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":10726.109,"end":10749.504,"text":"第一案,竹竹苗區國中會考免失入學超額比序採三級制,但新竹縣市學生數逐年增加。但竹竹苗區許多家長們認為應改為積分制對學生才公平,要求檢討調整可能性。然而,近113年度竹苗區入學推動工作小組審議,決議為三年維持原比序項目,讓家長們無法接受。"},{"start":10749.984,"end":10769.014,"text":"有建議逐逐苗學區家長與地方教育主管機關對抗有必須入學方式見解不同,紛爭不斷。請教育部依《高級中等教育法第四條》規定,由教育部交集地方教育主管機關延伸相關處置改善方案,以輔教育責才與公平。"},{"start":10769.534,"end":10795.019,"text":"提案人羅廷軌、林建啟、洪孟凱、柯志恩、徐新明、羅志強。第二案,鑒於今113年國際比賽在即為保障職業運動員的權益,要求教育部體育署應修改國家代表隊培訓選手及隊職員因培訓或參賽至短期失能身心障礙或死亡發給慰問金辦法提高發給慰問金基準,補足先行商業保險就體育運動員難以存保的部分。"},{"start":10798.52,"end":10824.494,"text":"並為根本解決現行體育職業選手參與國家對其保險額度不足,連累影響代表國家出差意願之問題,要求教育部體育署應就其可能解決方式做可行研究,並提出完整報告。作為未來修法參考,提案人臨應請吳佩奕、張雅琳、陳秀寶、蔡奇昌。第三案,有鑑於現行生理年齡滿三歲但學齡未滿三歲之幼兒,"},{"start":10826.116,"end":10842.871,"text":"離開托嬰中心無法立即銜接上幼兒園,不能獲得合宜的教保服務,避免幼童托育產生空窗期。原件請教育部研議放寬收托限制,讓幼兒園招收生齡年齡滿三歲但學齡未滿三歲之幼兒。"},{"start":10845.653,"end":10862.818,"text":"並於一個月內向立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告。提案人依然之羅廷偉、柯志恩連署人林倩琦。第四案有鑑於近年物價高漲未補足及橫貧增搬經費。原定請教育部研議由中央補助地方政府公共化幼兒園增搬經費。"},{"start":10863.718,"end":10891.076,"text":"因依物條需求補足並應提供各縣市均衡的經費支持,避免各縣市補助經費高低不同,並於一個月內向立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告。提案人依言之,聯署員寧千琦、耿如君、羅廷瑞、柯志恩宣布完畢。好,我們現在開始來處理有關於第一案徐新英委員所提案的,有沒有需要說明徐委員?不需要說明,然後教育部?"},{"start":10892.244,"end":10907.598,"text":"可不可以建立因為實務上114學年度是最快可以進行的可不可以再到處就是再延伸有關處置改善方案加入延伸114學年度相關處置改善方案以上"},{"start":10908.619,"end":10927.295,"text":"嚴商一一懸年度相關處置改善法案,徐委員OK嗎?好,那可以,那我們就是修正通過。那第二案,我們的提案人是有蔡其昌委員。"},{"start":10929.045,"end":10951.843,"text":"還有林一錦委員有沒有要補充說明的?謝謝主席我簡單說明一下這個臨時提案剛剛我在巡打的時候也特別提出因為這個是很緊急的事情因為今年的國際比賽代表國家出賽的這個比賽都馬上要到了但是對於他們的保險的問題我想大家在媒體上都很清楚的看到"},{"start":10952.563,"end":10968.788,"text":"所以我在做臨時提案的時候並不知道今天教育部剛剛就通過了剛剛我念過教育部體育署補助國家代表隊培訓或參賽短期失能保險給付與薪資差額要點在這個要點裡面教育部修正通過"},{"start":10970.288,"end":10994.077,"text":"將現行,因為大家知道現在商業保險無法滿足所有職業選手的需要,因為在法公司沒有啦,所以沒有辦法有辦法乘坐這麼巨大的這個保單,所以呢現行的保障是不足的,那這個不足呢教育部我透過公聽會教育部知道這個問題,所以我本來是把他希望修改那個國家代表隊培訓及"},{"start":10996.569,"end":11001.239,"text":"對職員因培訓或參賽至短期失能、身心障礙或死亡發給未問津辦法。"},{"start":11008.493,"end":11026.265,"text":"本來希望透過這個啦但是因為後來他們改了另外那個叫做差額要點新制差額要點所以我想這個提案是不是就把它加一段話就是補足現行商業保險的前面加或以其他行政規則"},{"start":11027.911,"end":11044.545,"text":"因為教育部今天通過的是透過這個差額要點不是慰問金辦法但不管怎樣只要能夠完成對職業選手的保障我相信我都沒意見所以如果加了這個會比較不然的話他們很困擾早上開才通過另外一個"},{"start":11045.305,"end":11048.129,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查"},{"start":11061.124,"end":11089.873,"text":"那第二段的部分我想就是長期就是說如果未來我們體育署包括我們這個這麼多委員提國民體育法的修法其實多多少少都有提到這一點所以呢教育部同時也應該進行研議就是說除了修改這個要點之外是否還有其他可以解決的方式包括引進國外的債保公司因為這個未來以中華職棒而言我們的薪資越來越大"},{"start":11090.908,"end":11106.722,"text":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":11113.052,"end":11138.315,"text":"那你的他的那個合約金額更大啦合約金額更大所以你的債保沒有辦法處理這個就是問題所以未來可能可以怎麼做所以你們可以做這個可行性研究並提出報告來作為未來修法的參考那以上謝謝好謝謝我們蔡委員的提案說明那那個教育部是教育部這邊是不是就依委員的修正文字那我們配合辦理"},{"start":11138.871,"end":11146.488,"text":"好 那我們就是修正後通過 謝謝然後我們處理第三案提案人葉元智委員有沒有需要提案說明的"},{"start":11151.395,"end":11173.011,"text":"我這個提案主要是針對就是有一些幼兒他可能會有收託的空窗期就是說從三歲托嬰中心出來但是還沒有到8月1號不能進到幼兒園家長沒辦法照顧那我這邊寫的是希望教育部可以在一個月內向我們提出書面包但是希望越快越好啦好不好因為實際上我現在講的問題是現在就在發生當中的"},{"start":11176.554,"end":11200.741,"text":"有,就只有很多小朋友現在是沒辦法進去的。所以看看是不是教育部可以直接,最好是直接可以通過這個政策。但我知道這樣子寫,你們一定會有意見一大堆。所以這邊還講說一個月內提出報告,可是會希望說你們朝開放的方式辦理,然後越快越好這樣。好,我呼應這一點,那教育部?是,教育部配合辦理。你說一個月喔?就是目前的這一個提案。因為你應該寫兩個禮拜的。"},{"start":11206.274,"end":11206.594,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":11236.545,"end":11259.102,"text":"也是一樣啦就是說我只寫一個月齁但是這個問題也是一樣因為當初在核定說蓋那個非營利幼兒園的時候的經費到現在已經暴增兩倍所以你的經費的合撥一定要跟物價調整一定要相關否則根本就沒辦法蓋啦你們的美意就被打折了啦好不好這個部分也幫我們評估一下這樣"},{"start":11264.611,"end":11282.603,"text":"是提案配合辦理,那我們在兩個禮拜內也就跟剛剛我們一併向委員這邊先做一個說明。好,那我們就照案通過,謝謝。那各提案如果有委員要補簽,請議事人員詳細的登載在我們的議事錄當中。接下來我們要繼續進行質詢。王紅薇委員。好,時間四分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":11297.005,"end":11303.307,"text":"好 謝謝主席我請我們劉次長好 次長委員長次長好最近就是在我們選期式上在文化方面有一個很重要的話題就是有關建國啤酒廠改建的問題然後您應該也知道北科大因為要爭取校地其實引起非常非常大的爭議"},{"start":11326.394,"end":11337.905,"text":"其實我們教育部也說過大概在五年以後可能有40所的私校可能要退場因為少子化的關係我們過去也看到來 那個我們拋point我們過去也看到其實"},{"start":11343.03,"end":11368.971,"text":"有一些別說公立大學去合併私立大學或者是公公合併然後去解決少子化的問題其實也都得到一個比較好的處理結果共創雙贏是不是?次長同不同意?別說像台科大他去併華夏對不對?或者是過去這個高雄科大是三校合併"},{"start":11370.052,"end":11390.749,"text":"所以未來的趨勢也就是有很多的私校他可能要退場然後大家可能覺得又很可惜然後他的這個校舍又變閒置所以如果有一個體質比較好的公立學校他去合併私校或者是公共合併"},{"start":11391.89,"end":11397.293,"text":"透過這樣合併讓學校得以存續讓學生得以有比較好的一個教學環境再來也是過去所謂的廣設大學也是希望能夠促進整個的地方的繁榮 對不對然後讓很多的教育的資源帶到地方去但是他們退場之後可能就有這個沒有辦法就是在整個的教育資源上感覺就也隨之退場"},{"start":11419.304,"end":11445.442,"text":"所以像我剛才提到這兩個例子都是我覺得是可以去走的方向次長同不同意?同意那我就回過頭來來講北科大的問題北科大他要增加他的校舍他覺得他的校地不夠其實我尊重可是全台也就是你要去增加校舍也好增加校地也好有很多的方式"},{"start":11446.443,"end":11454.005,"text":"那麼全台灣說實在不是只有台北市更不是只有台北市的蛋黃區更加不是只有一個全台唯一的百年啤酒廠的文化園區所以你為什麼要撿來撿去撿來撿去一定要去找一個台北市台北市蛋黃區然後是一個百年啤酒廠的文化園區所以北科大這一次它的一個"},{"start":11474.269,"end":11488.117,"text":"所謂的搶地或者他要增加校舍其實他最大的一個爭議就是因為他的爭議使得百年皮球場的火股機被一分為二"},{"start":11488.877,"end":11489.357,"text":"因此而整個犧牲,因為要割給北科大之後呢,"},{"start":11507.489,"end":11531.288,"text":"原來的綠地、原來的廣場原來要所呈現的啤酒文化的創意園區因此而沒有了只剩下原來的生產線只剩下原來的這些建築物非常非常可惜所以在這個爭議裡面因為我們知道北科大的校友會我們肯定北科大校友對台灣產業的貢獻我們也肯定北科大對於教育的貢獻"},{"start":11536.992,"end":11561.445,"text":"可是北科大校委會因為他們非常強勢他們也非常會遊說然後北科大校長非常執著他只剩下一年多的任期了他現在一定要去做這樣的爭議那當然我們在星期二的時候整個內政部都審會現在暫緩他把它退到要專案小組但是我覺得在這件事情上在社會上引起這麼大的爭議"},{"start":11563.266,"end":11574.673,"text":"教育部不應該通通都是消失了我們看不到教育部的角色在哪裡好像任由北科大去這樣的爭議引起這麼大的爭議教育部也無所謂當然我們知道原來是副院長現在的鄭文燦副院長的指示"},{"start":11580.757,"end":11580.917,"text":"二、審查委員"},{"start":11610.737,"end":11619.225,"text":"而受損所以我覺得這一點我希望教育部能夠在這個事件爭議事件上能夠有更積極的作為可不可以"},{"start":11620.06,"end":11640.285,"text":"是,如委員所說那禮拜二的這個審議會內政部審議會也是要求就是這整個案要去要能夠明確的來處理剛剛委員有疑慮的地方但是第二個方向的確台科跟那個華夏是我們覺得比較好的方向我們來看看能不能來集體來協助這個方向好來協助好不好好謝謝共創雙贏謝謝"},{"start":11646.666,"end":11648.027,"text":"鄭天才委員陳冠廷委員張家俊委員鄭振淺委員何欣淳委員"},{"start":11672.184,"end":11688.345,"text":"羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員邱志偉委員邱志偉委員邱志偉委員莊瑞選委員好跑得很快好來"},{"start":11693.8,"end":11694.161,"text":"謝謝主席,有請教育部政次"},{"start":11707.668,"end":11734.45,"text":"市長,我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題了。有人嫌慢,有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度,雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面,你認為可不可行?如果先行研議的話,那我們體育署就來先行,因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點。你不要亂聽啦,我告訴你。"},{"start":11736.645,"end":11742.907,"text":"國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢跟他說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是看守囉?你現在不能亂做囉?」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,"},{"start":11756.158,"end":11759.3,"text":"本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變"},{"start":11777.591,"end":11783.415,"text":"沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了 署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做專報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊"},{"start":11803.049,"end":11816.365,"text":"當天也跟署長很簡單地去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。我想,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協議會在本期的看法,"},{"start":11821.451,"end":11826.673,"text":"這個未必正確啦!未必正確啦!因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體"},{"start":11845.822,"end":11862.167,"text":"從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法"},{"start":11866.388,"end":11866.408,"text":"委員長"},{"start":11886.86,"end":11898.727,"text":"另有簽署一份合作協議,才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責,跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協。是不是這樣?"},{"start":11898.727,"end":11911.976,"text":"是。所以現在要解決籃球的部分,國家隊的主訓賽現在由協會來負責,但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約。你去走棒球的模式的話,現在國內也有三個聯盟,"},{"start":11913.056,"end":11924.424,"text":"議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協"},{"start":11939.594,"end":11942.155,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員"},{"start":11957.922,"end":11975.478,"text":"求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都準這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協會跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?"},{"start":11977.439,"end":11992.916,"text":"包委員,沒有錯,您講的沒有錯,所以我覺得就是以一個國家對待框架,那我們來按照委員剛剛的建議來進行,那事實上我們已經要求藍協在明天有一個初步的版本出來啦,那希望月底之前可以有一個明確的一個解決的一個...這樣不存幾天而已?"},{"start":11993.897,"end":11994.838,"text":"委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:"},{"start":12019.649,"end":12022.191,"text":"一、二、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案。 »:"},{"start":12048.746,"end":12049.186,"text":"葉元智委員"},{"start":12070.203,"end":12077.616,"text":"這個這一期有一個商業週刊它的封面叫做《瘋狂私校潮》我不知道次長或是副署長有沒有看過"},{"start":12080.199,"end":12108.824,"text":"有沒有看過?因為有看過的話我就可以講簡單一點沒有看過我就要引述一些裡面的數據所以你們看過嗎?他基本上大概是說師中的那一個現在從11%升到15%大概是最主要是被引述的他提到就是說現在的師藝高中的報考率非常的高入取率也下降光是舉個例子像延平中學、延平高中去年2700人報考今年有3800人報考增加非常多"},{"start":12109.144,"end":12114.527,"text":"所以現在有非常多的家長都寧可把小朋友送到私立高中去,那你們知道原因是什麼嗎?"},{"start":12119.707,"end":12140.424,"text":"我想家長有他的教育選擇權那在公立的學校我想我們也是會透過各項的政策去提高公立學校的品質也會積極的維護校園的安全你們在回應商業週刊的回答就是說尊重家長的教育選擇權但是這個教育選擇權有時候是不得不的選擇權"},{"start":12141.565,"end":12165.703,"text":"就是因為他覺得把小孩子送到公立高中可能沒有得到完善的照顧所以他寧可把小朋友送到私校比如說他舉了幾個問題啦第一個問題就是校園安全就是一個很大的問題第二個問題就是現在教改啦改了亂七八糟的大家無所適從啦家長寧可把小朋友送到私立高中去讓私立高中好好去照顧嘛"},{"start":12166.533,"end":12186.151,"text":"那這些都教育部的責任嘛也是國教署的責任結果國教署在回應記者的時候說我們尊重他的選擇權一副就是局外人的樣子不應該是這種態度吧你們的態度應該是說我怎麼去改善公校的品質讓這些家長願意把他們的小朋友送到公校才對啊"},{"start":12187.182,"end":12209.421,"text":"所以這代表你有沒有覺得這是當責嘛這是你們的責任應該是這樣吧所以請教育部好不好你們去針對因為他問了非常多的老師的意見家長的意見這些都是不具名的不具名代表什麼意思不具名代表說這是真心話啦我之前也曾經質詢過你們部長我也不知道為什麼部長都很少來我們教育文化委員會"},{"start":12210.382,"end":12230.834,"text":"我看其他的委員會每次不管是國防部還是什麼衛福部都是部長來然後我們這個潘文忠部長每次都派次長來我不知道為什麼他是是怎樣帶退老兵就是已經無心練戰他今天是去哪裡啊跟委員報告昨天部長就來進行專案報告昨天是昨天今天是今天嘛他換人了嗎換人了嗎那他今天去哪裡今天是行政院院會行政院院會"},{"start":12240.831,"end":12266.903,"text":"那為什麼其他有部會首長來立法院?他們都不用去緊任委員會?為什麼?你們去針對這個瞭解一下好不好瞭解一下好不好不要一副就是都跟你們無關的樣子然後也不要粉飾太平那其中裡面有提到一個我覺得這確實是教育部應該要好好檢討的他說"},{"start":12269.212,"end":12291.979,"text":"有一個校長分析新課綱就有19項議題要弄KPI包括什麼2030雙語政策深深用平板我現在就跟你來檢討一下深深用平板昨天聯合報有一個報導不知道你們有沒有看到現在說教育部有通令說各學校要求各學校要非常重視開基率"},{"start":12293.021,"end":12310.062,"text":"所以現在所有老師為了要讓這個平板有開機率所以故意要去安排一些課程然後老師幫忙開機不是學生開機不是學生上課是老師來幫忙開機啦為了要應付教育部訂出來的KPI有沒有這個事情啊"},{"start":12311.253,"end":12330.083,"text":"跟委員報告教育部沒有訂這個KPI沒有訂KPI那為什麼老師會說他為了要應付上級單位的指示所以要來做這個事為什麼跟委員報告基本上我們數位學習成效是包含數位學習平台使用情形平台才是重點就他有沒有使用那個"},{"start":12330.983,"end":12357.942,"text":"還有就是說我們也會去看他的學習成績自主學習量表來評估那在這主要的是其實我們在看他的開機率的時候最主要是我們要來看因為我們希望有所謂的手把手的教導因為有些學校他所以使用率比較低是因為他還是需要一些賠率的過程那我們在這邊有配資源過去所以其實我們是看這個來決定哪些學校優先獲得這樣的協助對啊那這樣"},{"start":12358.662,"end":12380.002,"text":"按照你的說法就是說你們理想跟現實有很大的落差嗎?這一點我們再去...對啊就是有很大的落差所以才會造成基層變成說老師在幫忙開機嘛那這一點我們也有...你誠意過高嘛然後有一些偏鄉的學校因為設備比學生還多一個人兩台平板啊那你們平板總共花多少錢?那時候推深深平板總共花多少錢?"},{"start":12380.899,"end":12395.903,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等19人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委"},{"start":12408.906,"end":12432.458,"text":"我上一次有一個臨時提案就是說現在教育部在推動平權教育平權所以讓大學生還有高中生都補助學費嘛免學費政策對不對這是為了推動教育平權對吧但是有一群漏網之魚就是私立國中直升私立高中的學生他們沒有得到補助對吧這個上次有臨時提案嘛"},{"start":12432.958,"end":12449.913,"text":"那這個是教育部毀我的文啊說經查這些學生總共有六千多人那如果說那些人也都要補助的話所需經費是三億多這是你們毀我的文喔 對不對你現在是說因為沒有這三億所以不願意補助是這個意思嗎 我跟你確認一下"},{"start":12450.902,"end":12466.877,"text":"基本上這個是一個考量因為他會有財政的支出財政支出好啦那副組長我跟你請教一下當初你們在推這種就是高中職以及大學免學費的時候你有沒有財政考量你當初有沒有考量財政那總共花多少錢"},{"start":12468.598,"end":12483.126,"text":"大學跟高中值的免學費總共花多少錢?我們現在大學這邊沒有免學費,是拉進。補助啦,補助總共花多少錢?拉進這邊大概是花了190元。190元嘛,然後加高中值多少?高中值這應該是另外一塊。"},{"start":12485.52,"end":12489.325,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等219人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。」"},{"start":12501.559,"end":12525.174,"text":"教育平權這是你們賴清德準總統的選舉政見叫教育平權平權的意思就是大家都一樣不論出生不論收入不論入學方式不論你是男是女是什麼宗教大家都一樣叫平權吧對不對那為什麼你獨獨把這一群因為他是直生的人把它劃掉說對不起我沒有平權但你不平權"},{"start":12526.201,"end":12541.527,"text":"因為私立高中它這個部分的話會有那個半學的那個獨特性那有什麼關係那還是那你就設條件進去了嘛那你就是設定條件了嘛那你就是設定條件了嘛我現在講的是平權就是沒有條件才叫平權對吧"},{"start":12542.878,"end":12569.764,"text":"沒有條件,那你現在又加條件進來,那你要不要再加別的條件進來?要不要再加別的條件?我們會多收你更多的一點。不是,所以你今天你給我的理由不合理嘛,因為如果是要平權的話就不是以預算來考量,如果要以預算來考量是兩百多億你都不可以啊,為什麼只把這三億挑出來勒?這個東西,我跟你講大家不能夠接受啦,都是你們在那邊講,然後大家聽了都覺得前後矛盾。"},{"start":12570.615,"end":12588.634,"text":"所以你這個再給我重新評估好不好什麼時候我們會審慎來不要審慎啦趕快啦因為你就是不合理嘛你們自己都講不出來了好我們一個月之內不要一個月啦你現在這個東西就是不合理嘛你現在跟我說3億你沒有那200億你有"},{"start":12593.981,"end":12618.252,"text":"希望還是可以給一個月的時間為什麼要一個月?我們都一個月啦,你們每次都一個月然後提案給你就隨便回一個文然後再跟你們講再一個月然後下次你隨便有一個公文我來問你再一個月那會不會問到新總統都...你們不要打臉賴清德好不好你們現在都在打臉賴清德啦因為賴清德說要平權你們都不做啦你們會打臉你們的總統讓你們的賴總統失信於民"},{"start":12625.199,"end":12627.53,"text":"好 謝謝各位"},{"start":12629.144,"end":12658.744,"text":"那我們接下來呢因為今天質詢的委員均已經發言完畢那另外有吳村城委員楊瓊英委員提出書面質詢關於今天的會議呢我們做如下的決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提的書面質詢或是相關的資料我們都會列入記錄並且刊登在公報中對委員質詢所要求的相關的資料或是沒有答覆的部分請相關機關盡快以書面來做一個答覆大學法專科學校法國民體育法相關的草案"},{"start":12659.164,"end":12666.195,"text":"我們另外就會定期來繼續審查。報告委員會今天的議程處理完不,現在散會。謝謝各位。"}]}},{"id":"15823","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15823","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e0a0e131ea932df62d8b52470c073da943be8d109af184be4fac25c8354f775335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","type":"Full","date":"2024-04-18","start_time":"2024-04-18T08:31:31+08:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:51:00+08:00","委員名稱":"完整會議","duration":15569,"委員發言時間":"08:31:31 - 12:51:00","影片長度":"04:19:29","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1776.3778437500002,"end":1779.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1780.0228437500002,"end":1782.8240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1783.4990937500002,"end":1789.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1789.0340937500002,"end":1842.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1843.0003437500002,"end":1869.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1871.9409687500001,"end":1880.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1882.6734687500002,"end":1910.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1911.1753437500001,"end":1915.4278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1916.0015937500002,"end":1920.0853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1921.3340937500002,"end":1921.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1922.1947187500002,"end":1934.9859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1936.74096875,"end":1938.0740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1940.2847187500001,"end":1947.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1949.3128437500002,"end":1953.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1954.9153437500001,"end":1956.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1957.8684687500001,"end":1960.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1961.1084687500002,"end":1963.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1964.0447187500001,"end":1967.0484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1967.9259687500003,"end":1972.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1973.6128437500001,"end":1976.4984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1977.6122187500002,"end":1984.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1986.1847187500002,"end":1994.1665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1995.8540937500002,"end":1999.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2001.8278437500003,"end":2004.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2005.9115937500003,"end":2008.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2009.72534375,"end":2012.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2013.5728437500002,"end":2016.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2017.6397187500002,"end":2019.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2021.5209687500003,"end":2029.0809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2029.8065937500003,"end":2034.5653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2035.9659687500002,"end":2038.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2038.7165937500001,"end":2040.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2042.7328437500003,"end":2043.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2044.4372187500003,"end":2045.9728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2048.01471875,"end":2049.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2051.2547187500004,"end":2053.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2053.6003437500003,"end":2056.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2059.3209687500002,"end":2063.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2065.8515937500006,"end":2068.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2069.6990937500004,"end":2070.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2073.1247187500003,"end":2075.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2078.64284375,"end":2080.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2083.16534375,"end":2086.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2088.04221875,"end":2091.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2091.7547187500004,"end":2095.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2096.56409375,"end":2099.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2099.93909375,"end":2101.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2101.67721875,"end":2102.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2102.7234687500004,"end":2120.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2120.2059687500005,"end":2120.2565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2122.6022187500002,"end":2122.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2122.6190937500005,"end":2166.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2166.6628437500003,"end":2185.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2186.2547187500004,"end":2186.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2187.2840937500005,"end":2195.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2196.48096875,"end":2213.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2214.48659375,"end":2239.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2240.05221875,"end":2245.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2246.00909375,"end":2249.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2250.1940937500003,"end":2250.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2250.70034375,"end":2252.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2252.8603437500005,"end":2260.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2260.96034375,"end":2261.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2262.34409375,"end":2264.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2265.04409375,"end":2306.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2306.2022187500006,"end":2327.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2328.1228437500004,"end":2328.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2329.6922187500004,"end":2331.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2331.46409375,"end":2334.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2334.83909375,"end":2344.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2347.6472187500003,"end":2352.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2353.65471875,"end":2358.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2359.13909375,"end":2359.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2360.9109687500004,"end":2365.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2368.65659375,"end":2370.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2371.9978437500004,"end":2373.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2378.12346875,"end":2381.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2381.26221875,"end":2381.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2382.9834687500006,"end":2390.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2390.96534375,"end":2394.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2394.9140937500006,"end":2396.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2396.4834687500006,"end":2400.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2400.90471875,"end":2404.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2405.29221875,"end":2408.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2409.17346875,"end":2409.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2409.71346875,"end":2410.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2411.50221875,"end":2417.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2417.1384687500004,"end":2419.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2419.83846875,"end":2424.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2424.9178437500004,"end":2425.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2425.37346875,"end":2431.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2438.87346875,"end":2458.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2459.3934687500005,"end":2473.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2473.70346875,"end":2474.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2474.61471875,"end":2476.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2482.0059687500006,"end":2482.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2482.02284375,"end":2512.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2512.8365937500002,"end":2667.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2672.9297187500006,"end":2676.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2684.4384687500005,"end":2796.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2796.97784375,"end":2862.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2865.9122187500006,"end":2872.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2880.20534375,"end":2882.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2882.5847187500003,"end":2885.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2886.1959687500002,"end":2892.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2893.5028437500005,"end":2898.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2898.9197187500004,"end":2899.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2900.16846875,"end":2903.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2904.08346875,"end":2905.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2906.24346875,"end":2910.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2910.64784375,"end":2913.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2913.48284375,"end":2920.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2921.0428437500004,"end":2924.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2924.9747187500006,"end":2925.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2927.7422187500006,"end":2929.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2930.05409375,"end":2930.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2931.01596875,"end":2933.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2933.91846875,"end":2935.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2935.7578437500006,"end":2940.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2940.8709687500004,"end":2943.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2943.67221875,"end":2946.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2946.9459687500002,"end":2950.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2951.28284375,"end":2958.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2958.9609687500006,"end":2965.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2966.7403437500006,"end":2971.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2971.8534687500005,"end":2973.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2973.7265937500006,"end":2978.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2978.5528437500006,"end":2981.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2981.3203437500006,"end":2986.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2986.82159375,"end":2989.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2990.7872187500006,"end":2993.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2993.9765937500006,"end":2995.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2995.9509687500004,"end":3001.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3001.94159375,"end":3004.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3004.9453437500006,"end":3004.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3005.0465937500003,"end":3011.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3012.2859687500004,"end":3016.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3016.8253437500007,"end":3020.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3021.2803437500006,"end":3024.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3026.2247187500006,"end":3030.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3031.9959687500004,"end":3035.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3036.0290937500004,"end":3036.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3037.44659375,"end":3040.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3040.6697187500004,"end":3041.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3042.40784375,"end":3043.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3044.9053437500006,"end":3046.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3046.98096875,"end":3052.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3053.2078437500004,"end":3057.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3059.0634687500005,"end":3063.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3064.2947187500004,"end":3068.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3070.3865937500004,"end":3073.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3073.30596875,"end":3074.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3074.87534375,"end":3077.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3078.90846875,"end":3080.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3081.13596875,"end":3082.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3083.00909375,"end":3083.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3084.27471875,"end":3091.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3091.2440937500005,"end":3093.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3093.92721875,"end":3095.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3095.2772187500004,"end":3108.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3108.81096875,"end":3110.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3110.85284375,"end":3112.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3113.1815937500005,"end":3120.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3121.65284375,"end":3122.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3122.96909375,"end":3125.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3126.0065937500003,"end":3127.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3127.49159375,"end":3132.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3132.85784375,"end":3136.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3137.2284687500005,"end":3140.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3140.8903437500003,"end":3143.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3144.5690937500003,"end":3151.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3151.72409375,"end":3152.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3152.73659375,"end":3155.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3156.2803437500006,"end":3159.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3159.5372187500006,"end":3164.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3165.3253437500007,"end":3167.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3167.4347187500007,"end":3170.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3171.06284375,"end":3180.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3181.60971875,"end":3183.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3184.07346875,"end":3185.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3186.7059687500005,"end":3188.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3188.6465937500006,"end":3189.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3189.6759687500007,"end":3191.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3191.4815937500007,"end":3192.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3192.69659375,"end":3197.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3198.01221875,"end":3200.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3200.8640937500004,"end":3202.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3202.8047187500006,"end":3204.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3205.4034687500007,"end":3209.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3209.2509687500005,"end":3223.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3225.50159375,"end":3228.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3228.8934687500005,"end":3232.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3232.89284375,"end":3238.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3239.3897187500006,"end":3247.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3247.91159375,"end":3249.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3249.5653437500005,"end":3257.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3257.66534375,"end":3260.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3261.3947187500007,"end":3262.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3263.70659375,"end":3265.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3265.2253437500003,"end":3271.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3272.66721875,"end":3273.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3273.3759687500005,"end":3274.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3274.67534375,"end":3284.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3284.5303437500006,"end":3286.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3286.67346875,"end":3291.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3291.7528437500005,"end":3294.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3294.73971875,"end":3296.9503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3297.1865937500006,"end":3298.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3298.5197187500007,"end":3300.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3301.2703437500004,"end":3304.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3304.91534375,"end":3308.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3308.7965937500003,"end":3313.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3314.4665937500004,"end":3319.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3320.22096875,"end":3320.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3321.1659687500005,"end":3324.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3325.0134687500004,"end":3327.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3328.54034375,"end":3331.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3332.0165937500005,"end":3334.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3334.9697187500005,"end":3339.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3339.8465937500005,"end":3343.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3343.3397187500004,"end":3347.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3347.3728437500004,"end":3349.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3349.46534375,"end":3351.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3351.43971875,"end":3354.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3355.3378437500005,"end":3364.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3366.2390937500004,"end":3379.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3379.8740937500006,"end":3393.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3394.36971875,"end":3407.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3408.15659375,"end":3426.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3427.25909375,"end":3429.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3430.3134687500005,"end":3432.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3432.64221875,"end":3437.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3438.8522187500002,"end":3440.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3440.70846875,"end":3447.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3447.62721875,"end":3451.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3451.42409375,"end":3458.4103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3458.6972187500005,"end":3460.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3461.2284687500005,"end":3465.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3465.9365937500006,"end":3476.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3476.7703437500004,"end":3482.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3492.05909375,"end":3494.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3494.94471875,"end":3495.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3496.6153437500006,"end":3537.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3537.5709687500002,"end":3588.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3588.97221875,"end":3724.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3724.81596875,"end":3731.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3732.40971875,"end":3732.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3734.08034375,"end":3755.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3756.2540937500007,"end":3756.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3757.70534375,"end":3760.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3760.72596875,"end":3761.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3765.06284375,"end":3766.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3772.72409375,"end":3773.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3775.1034687500005,"end":3778.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3779.3728437500004,"end":3780.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3785.14409375,"end":3785.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3785.8359687500006,"end":3804.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3786.5109687500008,"end":3786.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3804.4490937500004,"end":3806.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3806.94659375,"end":3817.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3817.74659375,"end":3821.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3821.1553437500006,"end":3822.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3823.6190937500005,"end":3824.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3824.36159375,"end":3835.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3835.2628437500007,"end":3838.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3838.0134687500004,"end":3838.0978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3838.0978437500007,"end":3838.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3838.28346875,"end":3847.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3848.3915937500005,"end":3849.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3850.29846875,"end":3852.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3852.03659375,"end":3853.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3853.04909375,"end":3853.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3854.33159375,"end":3864.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3857.94284375,"end":3857.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3857.9765937500006,"end":3858.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3858.3309687500005,"end":3858.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3864.43971875,"end":3868.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3870.0084687500002,"end":3881.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3881.7028437500003,"end":3882.3947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3882.2090937500006,"end":3882.2765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3882.3947187500007,"end":3882.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3882.4284687500003,"end":3882.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3882.5128437500007,"end":3883.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3884.5547187500006,"end":3898.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3898.2909687500005,"end":3901.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3902.2734687500006,"end":3906.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3906.9815937500007,"end":3911.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3911.8415937500004,"end":3912.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3915.73971875,"end":3932.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3932.3278437500003,"end":3945.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3945.7097187500003,"end":3945.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3946.5534687500003,"end":3947.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3947.02596875,"end":3948.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3949.3209687500002,"end":3951.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3952.0547187500006,"end":3959.9015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3959.9353437500004,"end":3960.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3960.69471875,"end":3960.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3960.9647187500004,"end":3961.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3961.3190937500003,"end":3972.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3972.03471875,"end":3987.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3987.52596875,"end":3988.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3988.79159375,"end":3992.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3991.7109687500006,"end":4002.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3999.74346875,"end":3999.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3999.81096875,"end":4000.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4000.1315937500003,"end":4000.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4003.00034375,"end":4004.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4004.94096875,"end":4021.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4021.4278437500006,"end":4026.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4026.7265937500006,"end":4037.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4038.3028437500006,"end":4055.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4046.3859687500008,"end":4046.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4046.9765937500006,"end":4047.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4055.02596875,"end":4055.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4055.12721875,"end":4055.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4055.2115937500002,"end":4055.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4055.2284687500005,"end":4055.2453437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4055.2453437500008,"end":4057.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4056.6628437500003,"end":4057.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4057.48971875,"end":4066.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4066.9734687500004,"end":4077.3009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4075.8497187500006,"end":4091.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4091.96534375,"end":4116.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4117.42971875,"end":4121.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4121.057843750001,"end":4121.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4121.20971875,"end":4123.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4123.0322187500005,"end":4123.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4123.487843749999,"end":4135.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4134.81096875,"end":4135.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4135.97534375,"end":4136.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4136.02596875,"end":4136.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4136.97096875,"end":4137.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4137.038468750001,"end":4137.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4137.122843749999,"end":4139.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4139.02971875,"end":4152.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4140.885968750001,"end":4141.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4153.27221875,"end":4177.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4177.0322187500005,"end":4198.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4178.17971875,"end":4178.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4199.07096875,"end":4199.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4199.96534375,"end":4207.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4207.727843750001,"end":4218.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4218.038468750001,"end":4219.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4220.63721875,"end":4238.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4238.50784375,"end":4238.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4238.54159375,"end":4239.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4238.575343750001,"end":4245.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4246.6415937500005,"end":4249.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4249.03784375,"end":4269.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4270.36784375,"end":4270.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4270.97534375,"end":4271.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4271.700968749999,"end":4271.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4271.717843750001,"end":4273.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4273.08471875,"end":4273.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4273.2197187500005,"end":4278.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4278.7040937500005,"end":4284.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4284.374093750001,"end":4285.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4285.859093749999,"end":4294.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4294.88721875,"end":4299.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4300.28721875,"end":4300.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4301.36721875,"end":4307.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4307.91471875,"end":4310.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4310.2772187499995,"end":4310.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4310.46284375,"end":4310.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4310.49659375,"end":4311.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4311.036593750001,"end":4312.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4312.57221875,"end":4324.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4321.88721875,"end":4322.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4323.25409375,"end":4323.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4324.6209687499995,"end":4334.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4334.475968750001,"end":4335.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4335.032843749999,"end":4352.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4352.616593750001,"end":4369.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4369.069718750001,"end":4369.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4369.10346875,"end":4369.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4369.13721875,"end":4369.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4369.542218750001,"end":4369.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4369.592843750001,"end":4383.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4383.970343749999,"end":4387.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4387.51409375,"end":4408.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4408.9959687499995,"end":4414.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4414.61534375,"end":4416.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4417.720343749999,"end":4418.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4418.479718750001,"end":4419.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4420.200968749999,"end":4423.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4425.280343750001,"end":4439.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4450.626593749999,"end":4452.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4453.05659375,"end":4454.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4460.565968749999,"end":4460.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4460.58284375,"end":4461.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4461.561593750001,"end":4462.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4463.046593749999,"end":4468.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4468.27784375,"end":4468.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4469.7459687499995,"end":4470.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4471.18034375,"end":4472.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4473.28971875,"end":4474.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4474.79159375,"end":4475.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4476.29346875,"end":4477.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4477.93034375,"end":4481.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4481.710343750001,"end":4483.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4483.634093750001,"end":4485.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4485.557843750001,"end":4486.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4487.329718749999,"end":4489.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4489.5740937499995,"end":4491.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4491.734093749999,"end":4493.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4493.708468750001,"end":4494.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4495.395968750001,"end":4496.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4496.7459687499995,"end":4497.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4498.33221875,"end":4499.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4500.509093750001,"end":4501.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4502.07846875,"end":4504.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4504.964093750001,"end":4505.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4505.419718749999,"end":4507.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4507.79909375,"end":4519.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4517.468468749999,"end":4518.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4519.64534375,"end":4522.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4522.93596875,"end":4523.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4523.712218750001,"end":4528.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4528.84221875,"end":4533.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4533.98909375,"end":4534.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4534.967843750001,"end":4536.925343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4537.6678437499995,"end":4541.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4542.089093750001,"end":4542.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4543.304093750001,"end":4546.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4546.84784375,"end":4548.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4548.653468750001,"end":4550.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4551.420968750001,"end":4553.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4553.68221875,"end":4554.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4555.437218749999,"end":4557.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4558.204718749999,"end":4558.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4558.812218749999,"end":4560.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4560.85409375,"end":4562.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4562.67659375,"end":4563.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4563.4022187499995,"end":4564.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4564.98846875,"end":4566.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4567.013468749999,"end":4568.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4569.038468750001,"end":4569.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4570.590968750001,"end":4571.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4572.53159375,"end":4574.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4575.14721875,"end":4576.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4576.69971875,"end":4586.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4586.97659375,"end":4590.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4591.482218749999,"end":4592.190968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4592.68034375,"end":4593.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4594.1990937499995,"end":4597.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4597.52346875,"end":4599.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4599.66659375,"end":4600.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4600.93221875,"end":4602.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4602.839093750001,"end":4604.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4605.269093749999,"end":4607.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4608.15471875,"end":4608.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4608.8465937500005,"end":4609.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4610.804093750001,"end":4612.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4613.149718750001,"end":4615.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4615.69784375,"end":4617.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4617.72284375,"end":4618.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4619.477843750001,"end":4621.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4621.401593750001,"end":4622.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4622.8865937499995,"end":4624.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4625.36721875,"end":4627.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4627.61159375,"end":4630.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4630.46346875,"end":4631.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4631.762843750001,"end":4635.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4636.94346875,"end":4639.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4640.08221875,"end":4642.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4642.41096875,"end":4643.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4643.9803437499995,"end":4645.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4645.397843750001,"end":4647.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4647.7772187499995,"end":4647.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4649.0428437499995,"end":4649.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4649.059718750001,"end":4661.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4658.35784375,"end":4659.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4662.272843750001,"end":4679.519093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4679.654093749999,"end":4684.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4684.497218750001,"end":4691.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4691.939093749999,"end":4718.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4691.9559687500005,"end":4692.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4718.5340937500005,"end":4728.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4725.90846875,"end":4727.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4728.76034375,"end":4733.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4733.2997187500005,"end":4750.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4741.770968750001,"end":4742.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4745.010968750001,"end":4745.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4745.196593750001,"end":4745.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4745.6522187499995,"end":4745.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4751.0184687500005,"end":4754.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4755.15284375,"end":4756.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4757.144093750001,"end":4757.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4758.139718750001,"end":4759.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4759.962218750001,"end":4761.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4762.24034375,"end":4771.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4771.52159375,"end":4771.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4771.909718750001,"end":4777.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4776.34784375,"end":4776.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4777.022843750001,"end":4777.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4777.208468750001,"end":4784.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4784.78534375,"end":4792.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4790.50596875,"end":4791.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4791.90659375,"end":4792.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4792.210343750001,"end":4793.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4793.40846875,"end":4795.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4796.057843750001,"end":4796.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4797.39096875,"end":4799.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4799.39909375,"end":4799.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4799.41596875,"end":4799.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4799.618468750001,"end":4799.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4799.702843749999,"end":4817.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4806.874718749999,"end":4807.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4809.05159375,"end":4809.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4817.96159375,"end":4818.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4818.974093750001,"end":4827.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4828.964093750001,"end":4830.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4831.51221875,"end":4833.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4833.739718750001,"end":4842.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4836.8447187500005,"end":4837.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4842.599093750001,"end":4843.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4844.13471875,"end":4846.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4846.294718749999,"end":4847.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4848.269093750001,"end":4848.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4848.99471875,"end":4849.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4850.41221875,"end":4850.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4851.44159375,"end":4852.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4852.724093750001,"end":4855.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4855.52534375,"end":4857.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4857.71909375,"end":4863.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4863.321593750001,"end":4863.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4863.372218750001,"end":4864.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4864.722218750001,"end":4873.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4873.497218750001,"end":4876.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4876.46721875,"end":4877.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4877.83409375,"end":4881.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4882.255343750001,"end":4882.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4883.436593750001,"end":4885.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4885.124093750001,"end":4885.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4885.765343749999,"end":4890.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4890.8447187500005,"end":4891.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4892.093468749999,"end":4892.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4893.966593749999,"end":4895.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4895.92409375,"end":4898.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4896.126593749999,"end":4896.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4898.48909375,"end":4898.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4899.34971875,"end":4899.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4899.366593750001,"end":4901.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4900.14284375,"end":4900.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4901.86409375,"end":4904.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4902.927218750001,"end":4904.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4904.108468750001,"end":4904.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4904.36159375,"end":4908.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4908.29346875,"end":4908.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4908.5634687500005,"end":4915.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4915.920968750001,"end":4916.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4917.220343749999,"end":4918.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4919.279093749999,"end":4921.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4921.9959687499995,"end":4924.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4924.780343750001,"end":4925.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4926.6365937499995,"end":4927.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4927.69971875,"end":4928.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4928.44221875,"end":4928.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4929.876593749999,"end":4931.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4931.614718750001,"end":4933.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4933.825343750001,"end":4935.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4935.597218750001,"end":4939.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4939.83284375,"end":4942.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4943.005343750001,"end":4944.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4945.23284375,"end":4945.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4945.6884687500005,"end":4956.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4951.03784375,"end":4951.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4957.12971875,"end":4958.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4957.8553437499995,"end":4959.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4959.8465937500005,"end":4960.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4961.196593750001,"end":4962.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4962.76596875,"end":4964.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4963.727843750001,"end":4964.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4964.74034375,"end":4965.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4965.8709687499995,"end":4966.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4966.309718750001,"end":4979.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4979.82659375,"end":4985.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4985.64846875,"end":4987.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4987.75784375,"end":4990.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4991.470343749999,"end":4991.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4992.48284375,"end":4994.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4995.0478437500005,"end":4997.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4998.321593750001,"end":4999.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5000.295968750001,"end":5001.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5002.017218749999,"end":5004.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5005.1728437500005,"end":5005.814093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5006.607218749999,"end":5008.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5009.08784375,"end":5009.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5010.370343750001,"end":5010.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5010.70784375,"end":5012.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5012.952218750001,"end":5014.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5014.909718750001,"end":5015.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5015.1122187500005,"end":5015.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5015.888468749999,"end":5017.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5017.55909375,"end":5021.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5021.845343749999,"end":5022.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5022.57096875,"end":5023.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5024.07284375,"end":5025.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5026.215968750001,"end":5027.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5028.42659375,"end":5030.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5030.569718750001,"end":5041.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5041.70721875,"end":5042.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5041.74096875,"end":5043.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5043.15846875,"end":5043.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5044.18784375,"end":5044.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5045.08221875,"end":5045.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5045.284718750001,"end":5051.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5052.47346875,"end":5054.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5055.02159375,"end":5055.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5055.84846875,"end":5059.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5059.999718749999,"end":5068.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5068.8759687500005,"end":5070.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5070.39471875,"end":5071.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5072.200343750001,"end":5075.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5075.82846875,"end":5086.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5086.88159375,"end":5089.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5089.98659375,"end":5096.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5096.196593750001,"end":5096.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5096.36534375,"end":5105.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5096.382218750001,"end":5096.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5104.212218750001,"end":5104.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5105.35971875,"end":5114.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5106.76034375,"end":5107.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5114.91096875,"end":5125.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5126.97659375,"end":5130.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5143.56471875,"end":5145.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5145.741593750001,"end":5147.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5147.73284375,"end":5148.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5153.79096875,"end":5154.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5155.27596875,"end":5155.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5156.54159375,"end":5157.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5158.17846875,"end":5163.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5163.7303437499995,"end":5166.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5167.071593750001,"end":5168.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5168.82659375,"end":5174.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5174.73284375,"end":5175.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5175.66096875,"end":5177.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5178.10784375,"end":5179.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5180.35221875,"end":5182.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5182.7822187500005,"end":5183.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5183.659718750001,"end":5186.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5186.54534375,"end":5187.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5187.43971875,"end":5192.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5192.7215937500005,"end":5195.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5196.231593750001,"end":5197.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5198.475968750001,"end":5202.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5203.251593749999,"end":5206.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5205.597218750001,"end":5205.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5205.61409375,"end":5205.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5205.63096875,"end":5206.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5206.812218749999,"end":5206.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5206.93034375,"end":5206.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5208.229718750001,"end":5210.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5209.05659375,"end":5209.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5210.187218749999,"end":5210.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5210.2040937500005,"end":5210.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5211.11534375,"end":5238.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5239.077218750001,"end":5244.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5239.41471875,"end":5239.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5239.98846875,"end":5240.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5240.03909375,"end":5240.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5244.47721875,"end":5245.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5246.53596875,"end":5247.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5247.464093750001,"end":5247.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5248.965968750001,"end":5254.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5254.484093749999,"end":5256.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5255.83409375,"end":5264.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5265.2840937500005,"end":5266.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5268.085343750001,"end":5269.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5269.97534375,"end":5271.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5271.780968749999,"end":5273.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5274.548468749999,"end":5277.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5277.417218750001,"end":5278.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5278.581593750001,"end":5280.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5281.484093749999,"end":5283.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5284.352843750001,"end":5303.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5300.519093750001,"end":5301.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5302.64534375,"end":5303.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5303.3709687499995,"end":5304.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5303.522843750001,"end":5303.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5305.4803437499995,"end":5321.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5306.07096875,"end":5306.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5308.51784375,"end":5309.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5320.060343749999,"end":5322.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5322.2372187500005,"end":5328.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5328.48096875,"end":5328.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5328.497843749999,"end":5328.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5328.53159375,"end":5328.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5329.05471875,"end":5339.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5329.56096875,"end":5330.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5335.33221875,"end":5336.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5337.91409375,"end":5338.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5339.97284375,"end":5341.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5342.79096875,"end":5345.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5345.710343750001,"end":5346.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5347.46534375,"end":5348.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5348.9334687499995,"end":5350.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5350.73909375,"end":5351.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5351.430968750001,"end":5351.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5351.97096875,"end":5354.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5354.97471875,"end":5355.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5355.21096875,"end":5370.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5368.84596875,"end":5369.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5370.8709687499995,"end":5374.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5376.20346875,"end":5378.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5376.591593749999,"end":5377.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5379.89909375,"end":5383.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5384.100968750001,"end":5386.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5386.716593749999,"end":5390.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5391.036593750001,"end":5391.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5391.39096875,"end":5393.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5394.040343750001,"end":5395.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5395.862843750001,"end":5396.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5396.95971875,"end":5401.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5401.684718750001,"end":5403.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5403.169718749999,"end":5409.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5410.206593750001,"end":5410.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5410.37534375,"end":5410.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5410.64534375,"end":5417.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5418.86346875,"end":5421.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5422.66034375,"end":5423.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5423.892218749999,"end":5425.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5426.339093750001,"end":5428.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5429.292218750001,"end":5429.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5431.249718749999,"end":5431.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5432.009093750001,"end":5453.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5440.311593750001,"end":5441.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5454.72284375,"end":5461.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5462.16471875,"end":5463.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5465.894093750001,"end":5467.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5467.9697187500005,"end":5468.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5469.404093749999,"end":5480.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5480.91284375,"end":5482.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5483.12346875,"end":5485.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5486.279093749999,"end":5489.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5490.85221875,"end":5491.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5491.628468750001,"end":5491.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5492.100968750001,"end":5498.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5498.564093749999,"end":5499.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5500.42034375,"end":5500.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5502.20909375,"end":5502.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5503.677218750001,"end":5508.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5509.161593750001,"end":5511.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5512.435343749999,"end":5514.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5515.42221875,"end":5518.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5520.602843750001,"end":5520.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5521.80096875,"end":5522.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5522.796593749999,"end":5523.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5523.741593750001,"end":5525.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5525.530343750001,"end":5526.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5526.89721875,"end":5527.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5528.247218750001,"end":5529.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5531.03159375,"end":5534.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5534.8622187500005,"end":5536.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5536.61721875,"end":5538.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5539.165343750001,"end":5547.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5548.42971875,"end":5549.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5549.054093750001,"end":5550.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5551.399718750001,"end":5552.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5553.66096875,"end":5555.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5555.50034375,"end":5557.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5559.11159375,"end":5560.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5560.765343749999,"end":5563.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5563.870343750001,"end":5568.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5568.6122187500005,"end":5568.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5568.81471875,"end":5583.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5583.546593749999,"end":5587.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5584.79534375,"end":5586.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5588.237843750001,"end":5595.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5589.4022187499995,"end":5590.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5596.52346875,"end":5596.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5599.915343750001,"end":5604.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5601.889718750001,"end":5604.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5604.505343750001,"end":5609.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5610.1415937500005,"end":5610.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5611.154093749999,"end":5611.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5612.21721875,"end":5612.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5613.887843750001,"end":5615.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5616.132218750001,"end":5620.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5620.55346875,"end":5621.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5622.139718750001,"end":5624.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5625.53159375,"end":5626.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5628.24846875,"end":5632.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5631.6572187500005,"end":5638.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5640.06096875,"end":5643.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5643.43596875,"end":5645.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5646.10221875,"end":5653.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5653.392218749999,"end":5655.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5655.53534375,"end":5656.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5656.952843749999,"end":5663.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5657.138468749999,"end":5658.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5663.247218750001,"end":5664.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5665.862843750001,"end":5666.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5667.16221875,"end":5672.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5672.241593750001,"end":5675.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5676.224093750001,"end":5676.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5677.28721875,"end":5681.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5681.77596875,"end":5682.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5682.99096875,"end":5684.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5684.999093750001,"end":5685.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5685.842843750001,"end":5687.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5688.829718749999,"end":5691.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5691.68159375,"end":5694.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5694.972218750001,"end":5695.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5695.815968750001,"end":5696.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5696.524718750001,"end":5700.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5699.376593749999,"end":5704.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5704.1522187499995,"end":5709.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5705.55284375,"end":5705.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5709.11346875,"end":5709.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5710.260968750001,"end":5710.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5710.27784375,"end":5714.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5710.311593750001,"end":5711.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5714.327843749999,"end":5715.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5721.0272187499995,"end":5721.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5721.7528437500005,"end":5722.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5722.84971875,"end":5722.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5722.88346875,"end":5724.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5725.51596875,"end":5726.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5727.186593750001,"end":5731.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5735.72534375,"end":5737.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5737.59846875,"end":5738.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5739.10034375,"end":5739.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5739.96096875,"end":5757.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5746.812218749999,"end":5747.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5752.98846875,"end":5753.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5760.362843750001,"end":5761.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5761.1053437499995,"end":5763.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5764.32846875,"end":5766.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5767.99034375,"end":5768.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5769.47534375,"end":5773.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5773.8290937500005,"end":5773.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5773.84596875,"end":5773.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5773.93034375,"end":5778.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5774.6053437499995,"end":5777.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5778.604718750001,"end":5784.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5786.16471875,"end":5787.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5787.1434687500005,"end":5790.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5790.029093749999,"end":5797.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5797.42034375,"end":5798.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5798.753468750001,"end":5799.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5800.069718750001,"end":5804.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5805.4697187500005,"end":5805.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5805.975968750001,"end":5808.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5808.034718750001,"end":5808.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5808.10221875,"end":5809.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5809.36784375,"end":5809.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5810.194718750001,"end":5810.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5810.21159375,"end":5821.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5811.20721875,"end":5811.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5811.561593750001,"end":5811.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5811.71346875,"end":5811.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5811.780968749999,"end":5812.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5812.067843750001,"end":5812.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5813.0634687500005,"end":5813.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5813.097218750001,"end":5814.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5814.02534375,"end":5814.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5814.90284375,"end":5814.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5822.59784375,"end":5829.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5825.2978437500005,"end":5825.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5829.39846875,"end":5833.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5831.6259687500005,"end":5833.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5833.98846875,"end":5834.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5834.1572187500005,"end":5845.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5837.700968749999,"end":5837.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5837.8865937499995,"end":5837.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5837.937218749999,"end":5842.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5846.425343750001,"end":5861.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5854.27221875,"end":5854.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5854.32284375,"end":5855.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5862.94596875,"end":5863.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5863.907843750001,"end":5866.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5863.99221875,"end":5864.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5865.57846875,"end":5866.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5866.42221875,"end":5868.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5866.489718750001,"end":5868.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5869.08846875,"end":5870.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5871.80534375,"end":5871.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5871.90659375,"end":5871.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5871.923468750001,"end":5872.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5873.6278437500005,"end":5874.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5873.72909375,"end":5873.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5873.762843750001,"end":5875.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5874.0497187500005,"end":5874.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5874.134093750001,"end":5874.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5875.75409375,"end":5875.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5876.007218750001,"end":5876.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5876.614718750001,"end":5879.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5879.77034375,"end":5880.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5880.71534375,"end":5881.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5882.234093749999,"end":5883.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5884.51221875,"end":5886.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5886.317843750001,"end":5887.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5888.241593750001,"end":5888.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5888.292218750001,"end":5888.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5888.5115937499995,"end":5888.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5888.83221875,"end":5889.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5889.7772187499995,"end":5891.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5891.751593750001,"end":5894.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5894.97471875,"end":5907.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5904.5428437499995,"end":5904.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5908.204718750001,"end":5912.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5911.61346875,"end":5912.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5912.92971875,"end":5918.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5913.030968749999,"end":5915.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5919.7978437500005,"end":5920.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5921.012843750001,"end":5922.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5922.02534375,"end":5922.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5922.61596875,"end":5924.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5924.72534375,"end":5927.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5927.02034375,"end":5927.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5928.1678437499995,"end":5931.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5935.170968750001,"end":5936.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5936.892218750001,"end":5941.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5939.91284375,"end":5939.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5939.946593750001,"end":5940.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5940.030968749999,"end":5940.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5941.1278437500005,"end":5946.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5946.966593749999,"end":5955.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5957.564093750001,"end":5957.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5957.96909375,"end":5961.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5961.0740937499995,"end":5962.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5962.45784375,"end":5963.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5963.92596875,"end":5970.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5968.1278437500005,"end":5973.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5973.67971875,"end":5974.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5974.05096875,"end":5974.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5976.599093750001,"end":5978.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5987.17971875,"end":5988.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5989.204718750001,"end":5990.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5991.19596875,"end":5992.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5992.866593750001,"end":5993.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5998.401593750001,"end":6002.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6001.354718750001,"end":6001.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6003.497843749999,"end":6004.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6004.341593749999,"end":6004.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6005.202218750001,"end":6005.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6005.7928437499995,"end":6007.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6007.733468750001,"end":6009.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6010.18034375,"end":6050.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6051.2372187500005,"end":6054.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6055.2197187500005,"end":6076.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6060.467843750001,"end":6060.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6060.788468750001,"end":6060.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6066.01971875,"end":6066.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6077.02221875,"end":6088.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6082.27034375,"end":6082.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6082.304093750001,"end":6082.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6088.00784375,"end":6091.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6091.4334687499995,"end":6099.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6096.76596875,"end":6103.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6101.946593750001,"end":6108.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6103.920968750001,"end":6104.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6107.44784375,"end":6112.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6111.092843750001,"end":6120.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6117.80909375,"end":6118.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6119.108468750001,"end":6119.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6120.05346875,"end":6125.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6121.774718750001,"end":6123.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6125.2509687500005,"end":6141.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6129.77346875,"end":6130.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6133.97534375,"end":6133.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6133.99221875,"end":6135.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6135.34221875,"end":6136.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6140.387843750001,"end":6142.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6142.210343750001,"end":6146.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6142.682843750001,"end":6142.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6146.31096875,"end":6166.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6167.06721875,"end":6210.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6210.689093750001,"end":6212.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6213.52409375,"end":6213.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6215.07659375,"end":6215.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6215.700968749999,"end":6226.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6227.1590937500005,"end":6247.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6244.624718749999,"end":6244.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6248.03346875,"end":6249.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6249.82221875,"end":6253.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6253.484093749999,"end":6257.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6257.888468749999,"end":6258.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6258.19221875,"end":6262.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6263.17034375,"end":6264.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6264.975968750001,"end":6270.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6270.882218750001,"end":6348.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6280.88909375,"end":6281.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6281.26034375,"end":6281.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6284.044718749999,"end":6284.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6284.196593750001,"end":6284.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6291.14909375,"end":6291.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6291.182843750001,"end":6291.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6291.739718750001,"end":6291.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6304.446593750001,"end":6304.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6349.73909375,"end":6356.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6357.417218750001,"end":6370.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6371.08596875,"end":6371.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6371.96346875,"end":6391.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6380.77221875,"end":6381.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6384.43409375,"end":6384.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6384.467843750001,"end":6384.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6385.69971875,"end":6385.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6385.80096875,"end":6385.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6385.98659375,"end":6386.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6386.003468750001,"end":6386.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6391.94346875,"end":6405.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6400.51596875,"end":6400.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6403.536593750001,"end":6408.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6406.18596875,"end":6407.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6407.92409375,"end":6413.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6410.92784375,"end":6411.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6412.85159375,"end":6414.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6415.112843750001,"end":6418.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6416.715968750001,"end":6421.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6421.03596875,"end":6447.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6423.921593749999,"end":6424.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6424.073468750001,"end":6424.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6447.42846875,"end":6451.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6451.79909375,"end":6452.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6453.655343750001,"end":6454.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6455.1572187500005,"end":6455.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6455.20784375,"end":6456.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6456.89534375,"end":6465.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6465.48471875,"end":6467.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6467.88096875,"end":6467.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6468.083468750001,"end":6476.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6476.97659375,"end":6482.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6482.03909375,"end":6482.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6482.0897187499995,"end":6482.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6482.5115937499995,"end":6482.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6482.96721875,"end":6483.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6483.70971875,"end":6483.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6483.76034375,"end":6483.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6484.46909375,"end":6486.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6485.26221875,"end":6498.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6495.927218750001,"end":6497.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6498.171593749999,"end":6534.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6535.00971875,"end":6535.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6535.6678437499995,"end":6537.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6537.456593750001,"end":6552.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6554.888468749999,"end":6565.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6562.75221875,"end":6563.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6565.80659375,"end":6567.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6567.409718750001,"end":6573.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6573.6365937499995,"end":6600.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6602.59409375,"end":6602.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6603.370343750001,"end":6613.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6607.909718750001,"end":6608.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6613.22534375,"end":6613.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6614.0184687500005,"end":6619.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6614.524718750001,"end":6615.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6616.46534375,"end":6616.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6619.28346875,"end":6620.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6620.1103437500005,"end":6621.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6621.52784375,"end":6623.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6623.991593750001,"end":6624.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6624.10971875,"end":6626.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6625.020968750001,"end":6626.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6626.6747187500005,"end":6654.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6651.227843750001,"end":6653.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6653.03346875,"end":6654.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6654.16409375,"end":6654.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6657.43784375,"end":6660.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6669.25034375,"end":6671.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6681.974093750001,"end":6683.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6687.407843750001,"end":6687.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6690.42846875,"end":6690.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6690.968468749999,"end":6690.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6691.390343749999,"end":6693.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6693.499718749999,"end":6704.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6705.21096875,"end":6713.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6713.665343750001,"end":6714.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6714.71159375,"end":6736.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6737.49284375,"end":6740.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6740.327843749999,"end":6789.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6765.977843750001,"end":6766.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6789.43409375,"end":6847.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6847.872218750001,"end":6849.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6849.49221875,"end":6850.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6851.331593750001,"end":6858.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6859.262843750001,"end":6863.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6864.696593750001,"end":6879.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6879.411593750001,"end":6881.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6881.385968750001,"end":6891.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6892.05096875,"end":6899.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6898.83471875,"end":6909.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6910.529093749999,"end":6929.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6929.108468750001,"end":6930.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6930.23909375,"end":6936.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6937.69784375,"end":6941.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6941.49471875,"end":6947.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6947.147843750001,"end":6947.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6947.16471875,"end":6948.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6948.599093750001,"end":6951.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6951.7040937500005,"end":6952.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6953.08784375,"end":6953.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6958.04909375,"end":6979.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6963.8709687499995,"end":6964.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6979.75034375,"end":6987.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6988.00221875,"end":7010.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7011.52596875,"end":7015.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7013.939093750001,"end":7027.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7028.40096875,"end":7047.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7041.66471875,"end":7042.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7046.92971875,"end":7052.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7052.5322187500005,"end":7073.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7072.731593750001,"end":7077.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7077.06846875,"end":7082.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7083.02534375,"end":7086.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7084.42596875,"end":7084.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7086.34971875,"end":7087.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7086.77159375,"end":7090.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7087.88534375,"end":7089.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7090.349093750001,"end":7093.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7094.44971875,"end":7098.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7094.939093750001,"end":7095.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7097.200343750001,"end":7106.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7105.249718750001,"end":7112.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7109.097218750001,"end":7109.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7109.97471875,"end":7110.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7110.3290937500005,"end":7110.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7113.11346875,"end":7113.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7113.974093750001,"end":7123.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7114.46346875,"end":7114.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7119.5428437499995,"end":7119.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7122.090968750001,"end":7140.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7140.687218750001,"end":7173.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7174.13346875,"end":7179.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7179.702218750001,"end":7183.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7184.241593750001,"end":7189.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7188.86534375,"end":7190.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7191.58221875,"end":7193.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7191.784718750001,"end":7198.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7197.977843750001,"end":7209.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7208.03534375,"end":7212.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7211.798468750001,"end":7214.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7213.41846875,"end":7228.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7227.6103437500005,"end":7234.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7232.6053437499995,"end":7232.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7232.97659375,"end":7232.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7234.79909375,"end":7236.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7236.554093750001,"end":7242.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7238.899718750001,"end":7239.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7242.89909375,"end":7265.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7257.3778437500005,"end":7257.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7264.2459687499995,"end":7264.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7265.25846875,"end":7293.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7267.907843750001,"end":7268.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7293.0009687500005,"end":7293.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7293.405968750001,"end":7293.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7293.99659375,"end":7294.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7294.013468749999,"end":7301.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7300.93221875,"end":7304.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7304.2059687500005,"end":7314.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7314.16221875,"end":7324.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7325.02971875,"end":7336.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7334.3447187500005,"end":7334.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7335.39096875,"end":7335.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7336.23471875,"end":7337.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7337.6522187499995,"end":7338.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7338.25971875,"end":7339.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7339.47471875,"end":7347.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7346.950343750001,"end":7352.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7350.645968750001,"end":7354.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7354.4090937500005,"end":7359.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7355.06721875,"end":7355.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7357.075343750001,"end":7358.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7358.44221875,"end":7358.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7359.38721875,"end":7373.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7373.747843749999,"end":7384.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7384.716593749999,"end":7385.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7385.27346875,"end":7398.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7392.25971875,"end":7392.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7395.29721875,"end":7396.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7397.59221875,"end":7397.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7397.609093750001,"end":7409.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7409.050343750001,"end":7416.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7417.47096875,"end":7423.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7420.66034375,"end":7420.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7420.677218750001,"end":7422.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7422.921593750001,"end":7422.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7422.9384687500005,"end":7424.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7424.50784375,"end":7428.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7435.628468750001,"end":7443.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7444.639718750001,"end":7445.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7447.677218750001,"end":7449.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7448.26784375,"end":7448.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7449.21284375,"end":7450.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7450.98471875,"end":7451.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7451.96346875,"end":7458.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7456.300343750001,"end":7457.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7459.439093750001,"end":7465.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7465.682843750001,"end":7466.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7467.38721875,"end":7474.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7475.30159375,"end":7476.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7476.29721875,"end":7479.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7480.3134687500005,"end":7481.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7481.528468750001,"end":7491.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7492.311593750001,"end":7496.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7496.81721875,"end":7505.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7505.45721875,"end":7511.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7510.97534375,"end":7523.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7512.3084687499995,"end":7513.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7514.468468750001,"end":7515.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7515.48096875,"end":7515.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7524.1209687499995,"end":7525.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7525.774718750001,"end":7530.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7530.651593750001,"end":7538.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7539.15659375,"end":7542.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7543.729718750001,"end":7551.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7551.795968750001,"end":7557.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7557.600968750001,"end":7563.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7563.47346875,"end":7565.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7565.565968750001,"end":7578.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7579.167218750001,"end":7581.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7581.15846875,"end":7584.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7584.56721875,"end":7585.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7585.731593750001,"end":7588.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7588.78596875,"end":7592.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7592.8865937499995,"end":7593.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7593.57846875,"end":7601.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7601.50971875,"end":7611.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7611.14534375,"end":7611.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7611.43221875,"end":7632.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7632.76221875,"end":7638.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7639.19159375,"end":7641.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7641.7059687500005,"end":7642.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7643.0897187499995,"end":7645.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7645.6884687500005,"end":7650.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7650.95346875,"end":7653.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7653.48471875,"end":7660.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7658.88471875,"end":7670.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7669.1278437500005,"end":7670.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7670.376593750001,"end":7685.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7686.0028437500005,"end":7697.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7697.849093750001,"end":7698.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7698.49034375,"end":7729.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7729.97909375,"end":7735.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7735.767218750001,"end":7757.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7749.80721875,"end":7750.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7757.620343750001,"end":7764.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7764.319718750001,"end":7765.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7765.264718750001,"end":7773.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7773.38159375,"end":7783.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7781.194718750001,"end":7781.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7781.616593750001,"end":7781.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7781.63346875,"end":7781.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7783.13534375,"end":7793.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7793.6990937499995,"end":7797.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7798.00221875,"end":7799.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7799.03159375,"end":7802.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7802.423468750001,"end":7809.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7809.15659375,"end":7810.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7811.232218749999,"end":7815.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7816.32846875,"end":7816.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7816.69971875,"end":7824.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7822.437218750001,"end":7824.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7824.4959687499995,"end":7826.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7826.50409375,"end":7835.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7836.66284375,"end":7843.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7843.22721875,"end":7846.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7846.720343750001,"end":7853.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7848.34034375,"end":7849.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7853.436593750001,"end":7883.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7855.529093749999,"end":7856.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7868.624093750001,"end":7868.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7868.809718750001,"end":7868.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7868.87721875,"end":7868.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7868.97846875,"end":7869.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7883.6259687500005,"end":7890.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7889.700968749999,"end":7889.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7889.717843750001,"end":7890.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7890.15659375,"end":7890.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7890.1903437500005,"end":7893.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7894.42596875,"end":7903.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7903.84221875,"end":7914.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7915.452218750001,"end":7926.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7922.337218750001,"end":7922.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7926.43784375,"end":7936.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7936.680968750001,"end":7942.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7938.53721875,"end":7939.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7939.769093750001,"end":7940.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7942.04721875,"end":7956.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7955.715968750001,"end":7956.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7957.33596875,"end":7959.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7959.090968750001,"end":7959.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7961.571593750001,"end":7968.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7968.96284375,"end":8008.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8009.007218750001,"end":8010.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8011.403468750001,"end":8015.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8016.314093750001,"end":8025.966593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8028.177218750001,"end":8034.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8034.28596875,"end":8039.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8040.698468750001,"end":8044.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8043.8709687499995,"end":8047.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8047.499093750001,"end":8049.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8050.0809687500005,"end":8051.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8051.059718750001,"end":8051.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8051.937218750001,"end":8063.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8063.78346875,"end":8068.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8068.28909375,"end":8070.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8070.63471875,"end":8072.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8073.01409375,"end":8075.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8076.085343750001,"end":8079.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8079.409718750001,"end":8079.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8079.42659375,"end":8080.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8079.71346875,"end":8080.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8081.046593750001,"end":8095.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8095.84596875,"end":8104.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8103.86159375,"end":8107.388468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8106.173468750001,"end":8106.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8106.3759687500005,"end":8107.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8107.388468750001,"end":8116.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8124.76971875,"end":8127.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8128.583468750001,"end":8129.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8135.31659375,"end":8136.075968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8139.29909375,"end":8139.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8140.311593750001,"end":8147.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8146.18409375,"end":8146.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8147.92221875,"end":8152.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8147.9559687500005,"end":8148.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8152.394093750001,"end":8154.638468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8156.140343750001,"end":8163.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8163.548468750001,"end":8168.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8168.45909375,"end":8174.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8174.989718750001,"end":8177.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8178.11159375,"end":8178.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8179.27596875,"end":8187.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8187.3759687500005,"end":8191.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8191.66221875,"end":8201.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8202.090968750003,"end":8213.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8214.207218750002,"end":8220.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8220.51846875,"end":8229.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8229.41159375,"end":8241.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8240.29596875,"end":8242.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8242.13534375,"end":8248.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8247.737843750001,"end":8248.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8248.78409375,"end":8251.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8251.99034375,"end":8255.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8255.247218750003,"end":8256.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8256.79971875,"end":8257.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8258.06534375,"end":8261.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8261.153468750003,"end":8268.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8268.375968750002,"end":8269.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8269.45596875,"end":8274.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8273.99534375,"end":8291.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8279.395343750002,"end":8279.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8279.41221875,"end":8279.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8290.02659375,"end":8295.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8295.797843750002,"end":8296.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8296.219718750002,"end":8296.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8296.30409375,"end":8309.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8309.26409375,"end":8312.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8313.22971875,"end":8313.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8313.972218750001,"end":8315.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8315.879093750002,"end":8316.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8317.313468750002,"end":8331.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8331.859718750002,"end":8340.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8340.95534375,"end":8341.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8341.984718750002,"end":8350.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8351.33346875,"end":8358.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8358.387218750002,"end":8370.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8370.790343750003,"end":8387.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8387.26034375,"end":8389.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8389.21784375,"end":8397.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8397.63846875,"end":8402.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8397.672218750002,"end":8398.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8402.86971875,"end":8408.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8407.577843750001,"end":8409.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8410.159718750001,"end":8425.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8421.38159375,"end":8422.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8424.469718750002,"end":8430.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8426.190968750001,"end":8428.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8428.03034375,"end":8428.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8428.266593750002,"end":8428.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8428.317218750002,"end":8428.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8428.688468750002,"end":8428.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8428.722218750001,"end":8428.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8428.739093750002,"end":8429.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8429.633468750002,"end":8429.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8429.65034375,"end":8429.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8429.97096875,"end":8430.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8430.44346875,"end":8431.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8430.747218750003,"end":8430.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8431.03409375,"end":8459.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8432.55284375,"end":8433.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8437.919093750003,"end":8437.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8437.93596875,"end":8438.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8438.273468750001,"end":8438.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8450.84534375,"end":8451.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8460.29534375,"end":8475.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8475.347843750002,"end":8493.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8493.539093750001,"end":8495.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8496.137843750003,"end":8500.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8498.63534375,"end":8498.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8499.023468750001,"end":8499.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8500.17096875,"end":8515.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8515.544093750003,"end":8528.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8529.499718750001,"end":8530.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8531.28846875,"end":8559.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8534.562218750001,"end":8536.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8560.11096875,"end":8565.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8560.195343750001,"end":8560.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8565.03846875,"end":8565.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8565.747218750003,"end":8571.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8571.56909375,"end":8576.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8576.98596875,"end":8582.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8577.47534375,"end":8579.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8583.01034375,"end":8596.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8595.160343750002,"end":8607.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8607.90096875,"end":8618.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8619.12284375,"end":8632.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8632.909718750001,"end":8640.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8640.38534375,"end":8657.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8657.83409375,"end":8662.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8662.238468750002,"end":8667.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8663.031593750002,"end":8663.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8665.765343750001,"end":8673.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8673.46034375,"end":8687.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8674.70909375,"end":8675.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8688.445343750001,"end":8691.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8691.972218750001,"end":8697.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8696.190968750001,"end":8713.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8713.31909375,"end":8719.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8719.32659375,"end":8720.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8721.16596875,"end":8726.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8727.93284375,"end":8732.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8733.282218750002,"end":8737.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8737.754093750002,"end":8738.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8738.31096875,"end":8743.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8744.48721875,"end":8759.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8759.860343750002,"end":8763.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8762.66159375,"end":8763.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8763.57284375,"end":8783.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8783.62034375,"end":8815.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8814.77159375,"end":8835.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8836.962218750003,"end":8840.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8839.29096875,"end":8839.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8839.39221875,"end":8839.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8839.493468750003,"end":8839.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8839.51034375,"end":8839.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8839.527218750001,"end":8839.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8839.66221875,"end":8843.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8856.351593750001,"end":8856.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8857.39784375,"end":8858.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8858.96721875,"end":8859.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8865.632843750001,"end":8865.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8865.649718750003,"end":8866.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8866.44284375,"end":8873.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8874.00284375,"end":8875.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8875.89284375,"end":8892.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8892.632843750001,"end":8898.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8898.235343750002,"end":8916.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8915.75159375,"end":8924.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8924.45909375,"end":8931.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8931.867218750001,"end":8948.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8949.265343750001,"end":8951.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8952.37034375,"end":8961.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8962.44471875,"end":8968.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8969.144093750001,"end":8979.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8979.52221875,"end":8986.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8979.690968750001,"end":8979.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8979.809093750002,"end":8979.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8979.84284375,"end":8979.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8979.92721875,"end":8979.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8986.64346875,"end":8986.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8988.01034375,"end":8993.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8993.579093750002,"end":9000.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9000.902843750002,"end":9000.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9000.91971875,"end":9000.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9000.93659375,"end":9001.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9001.35846875,"end":9002.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9003.07971875,"end":9006.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9006.690968750001,"end":9007.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9007.14659375,"end":9007.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9007.180343750002,"end":9007.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9007.19721875,"end":9008.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9007.31534375,"end":9007.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9008.41221875,"end":9014.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9008.42909375,"end":9008.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9015.43221875,"end":9017.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9017.59221875,"end":9023.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9023.954093750002,"end":9023.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9024.409718750001,"end":9031.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9031.480343750001,"end":9043.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9043.815968750001,"end":9046.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9046.566593750002,"end":9047.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9048.13596875,"end":9050.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9050.464718750001,"end":9053.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9053.012843750003,"end":9053.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9053.586593750002,"end":9054.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9054.02534375,"end":9060.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9060.40409375,"end":9061.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9064.11659375,"end":9067.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9068.352218750002,"end":9068.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9069.95534375,"end":9069.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9069.972218750001,"end":9070.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9070.57971875,"end":9070.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9070.59659375,"end":9070.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9070.664093750001,"end":9070.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9070.96784375,"end":9071.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9071.00159375,"end":9071.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9071.524718750003,"end":9072.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9072.621593750002,"end":9073.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9073.38096875,"end":9073.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9074.140343750001,"end":9077.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9077.32971875,"end":9079.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9079.91159375,"end":9093.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9094.42409375,"end":9099.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9096.516593750002,"end":9096.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9097.95096875,"end":9103.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9101.39346875,"end":9102.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9103.85721875,"end":9126.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9126.11534375,"end":9129.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9128.81534375,"end":9131.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9129.574718750002,"end":9130.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9131.39721875,"end":9137.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9138.484718750002,"end":9146.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9146.297843750002,"end":9148.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9148.79534375,"end":9151.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9151.664093750001,"end":9156.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9157.165343750003,"end":9158.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9159.207218750002,"end":9163.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9164.438468750002,"end":9175.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9176.132843750001,"end":9177.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9177.38159375,"end":9179.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9180.13221875,"end":9180.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9180.58784375,"end":9182.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9182.91659375,"end":9184.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9184.85721875,"end":9203.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9203.504093750002,"end":9208.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9208.81971875,"end":9210.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9210.827843750001,"end":9215.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9215.316593750002,"end":9217.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9218.016593750002,"end":9220.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9221.72909375,"end":9222.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9224.277218750001,"end":9224.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9225.32346875,"end":9247.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9232.20846875,"end":9233.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9233.035343750002,"end":9233.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9233.254718750002,"end":9233.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9233.32221875,"end":9234.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9234.58784375,"end":9234.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9242.92409375,"end":9243.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9244.18971875,"end":9244.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9244.223468750002,"end":9244.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9249.20159375,"end":9254.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9250.956593750001,"end":9251.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9252.863468750002,"end":9255.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9255.15846875,"end":9255.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9255.462218750003,"end":9257.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9257.976593750001,"end":9257.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9257.993468750003,"end":9258.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9259.07346875,"end":9259.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9259.91721875,"end":9260.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9261.672218750002,"end":9261.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9261.68909375,"end":9273.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9272.961593750002,"end":9289.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9290.781593750002,"end":9292.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9292.840343750002,"end":9292.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9293.903468750003,"end":9295.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9295.50659375,"end":9295.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9295.692218750002,"end":9295.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9295.92846875,"end":9296.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9296.535968750002,"end":9298.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9298.13909375,"end":9298.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9298.949093750001,"end":9307.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9308.11221875,"end":9309.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9309.69846875,"end":9309.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9310.27221875,"end":9323.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9322.472843750002,"end":9323.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9323.316593750002,"end":9323.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9323.485343750002,"end":9323.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9324.91971875,"end":9331.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9331.36596875,"end":9337.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9336.495968750001,"end":9342.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9342.773468750001,"end":9355.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9356.172218750002,"end":9358.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9358.500968750002,"end":9360.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9360.35721875,"end":9367.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9368.00159375,"end":9386.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9385.821593750003,"end":9386.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9386.53034375,"end":9392.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9392.774093750002,"end":9393.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9394.00596875,"end":9395.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9395.355968750002,"end":9405.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9406.004093750002,"end":9419.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9418.862843750001,"end":9421.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9421.410968750002,"end":9421.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9421.562843750002,"end":9426.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9426.743468750003,"end":9445.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9445.356593750003,"end":9466.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9467.73284375,"end":9470.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9470.179718750001,"end":9484.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9478.07721875,"end":9478.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9484.371593750002,"end":9494.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9494.749718750001,"end":9521.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9519.30284375,"end":9519.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9521.175968750002,"end":9525.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9522.69471875,"end":9522.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9522.72846875,"end":9522.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9524.297843750002,"end":9524.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9524.331593750001,"end":9525.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9525.023468750001,"end":9525.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9525.05721875,"end":9526.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9525.074093750001,"end":9525.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9525.563468750002,"end":9525.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9525.95159375,"end":9529.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9526.47471875,"end":9526.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9526.49159375,"end":9526.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10205.59221875,"end":10210.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10228.84596875,"end":10230.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10232.136593750001,"end":10232.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10233.11534375,"end":10234.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10238.093468750001,"end":10238.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10238.144093750001,"end":10238.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10238.54909375,"end":10238.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10238.852843750003,"end":10247.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10247.61096875,"end":10248.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10249.011593750001,"end":10255.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10256.16659375,"end":10259.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10259.89596875,"end":10275.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10276.29846875,"end":10276.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10277.04096875,"end":10279.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10280.11221875,"end":10281.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10281.867218750001,"end":10284.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10285.461593750002,"end":10286.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10286.237843750001,"end":10287.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10288.02659375,"end":10288.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10288.95471875,"end":10291.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10291.266593750002,"end":10292.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10293.375968750002,"end":10294.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10295.114093750002,"end":10296.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10297.054718750001,"end":10298.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10299.19784375,"end":10300.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10301.23971875,"end":10302.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10302.606593750003,"end":10303.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10304.10846875,"end":10308.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10308.293468750002,"end":10318.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10318.03034375,"end":10321.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10322.468468750001,"end":10335.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10335.968468750001,"end":10346.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10346.937218750001,"end":10349.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10350.312218750001,"end":10353.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10353.88971875,"end":10361.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10362.25971875,"end":10363.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10364.352218750002,"end":10365.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10366.05659375,"end":10369.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10370.055968750003,"end":10372.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10373.009093750003,"end":10395.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10395.840968750003,"end":10400.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10401.105968750002,"end":10402.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10403.384093750003,"end":10418.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10419.094718750002,"end":10420.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10420.461593750002,"end":10422.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10423.27971875,"end":10426.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10426.570343750001,"end":10429.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10429.03409375,"end":10429.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10430.417843750001,"end":10441.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10440.88034375,"end":10441.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10441.42034375,"end":10442.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10442.297843750002,"end":10452.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10443.192218750002,"end":10443.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10452.304718750001,"end":10452.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10452.743468750003,"end":10452.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10452.878468750001,"end":10452.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10452.92909375,"end":10463.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10463.23971875,"end":10463.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10463.290343750003,"end":10463.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10463.594093750002,"end":10468.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10468.63971875,"end":10469.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10470.41159375,"end":10480.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10480.40159375,"end":10488.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10488.855968750002,"end":10494.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10494.89721875,"end":10497.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10497.95159375,"end":10499.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10499.33534375,"end":10501.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10502.22096875,"end":10502.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10502.828468750002,"end":10509.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10510.219718750002,"end":10514.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10514.40471875,"end":10515.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10515.687218750001,"end":10521.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10522.16721875,"end":10523.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10524.31034375,"end":10526.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10526.622218750003,"end":10527.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10527.972218750001,"end":10529.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10529.32221875,"end":10530.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10530.452843750001,"end":10531.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10532.02221875,"end":10536.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10537.067843750003,"end":10538.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10539.312218750001,"end":10549.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10549.285343750002,"end":10551.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10551.563468750002,"end":10552.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10552.57596875,"end":10553.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10553.875343750002,"end":10555.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10556.22096875,"end":10557.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10557.824093750001,"end":10561.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10561.50284375,"end":10563.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10564.253468750001,"end":10574.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10574.73284375,"end":10576.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10576.21784375,"end":10580.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10581.33096875,"end":10589.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10589.565968750001,"end":10594.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10595.117843750002,"end":10596.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10596.012218750002,"end":10596.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10596.02909375,"end":10596.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10596.56909375,"end":10597.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10597.227218750002,"end":10597.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10598.77971875,"end":10633.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10609.22534375,"end":10609.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10625.543468750002,"end":10626.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10628.31096875,"end":10628.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10628.327843750001,"end":10628.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10628.98596875,"end":10629.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10634.132843750001,"end":10635.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10636.242218750001,"end":10642.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10640.579093750002,"end":10640.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10641.051593750002,"end":10641.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10642.97534375,"end":10651.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10650.67034375,"end":10650.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10652.13846875,"end":10676.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10652.222843750002,"end":10652.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10659.242843750002,"end":10659.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10661.824718750002,"end":10661.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10661.84159375,"end":10663.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10666.617218750001,"end":10667.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10676.961593750002,"end":10681.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10681.821593750003,"end":10697.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10689.17909375,"end":10689.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10697.97096875,"end":10706.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10706.340968750003,"end":10711.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10712.129093750002,"end":10719.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10719.65534375,"end":10721.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10722.321593750003,"end":10723.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10723.92471875,"end":10727.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10728.19409375,"end":10731.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10731.585968750001,"end":10739.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10739.247218750003,"end":10739.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10740.614093750002,"end":10741.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10743.077843750001,"end":10743.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10744.292843750001,"end":10745.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10745.035343750002,"end":10753.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10753.28721875,"end":10753.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10753.962218750003,"end":10792.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10792.52159375,"end":10793.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10793.63534375,"end":10796.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10796.47034375,"end":10797.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10798.17471875,"end":10799.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10800.33471875,"end":10806.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10806.780968750001,"end":10811.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10811.77596875,"end":10811.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10812.282218750002,"end":10812.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10812.332843750002,"end":10821.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10814.03721875,"end":10815.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10821.985343750002,"end":10822.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10822.255343750003,"end":10824.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10824.63471875,"end":10831.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10831.739093750002,"end":10833.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10831.77284375,"end":10832.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10833.17346875,"end":10836.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10837.544093750003,"end":10860.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10860.325343750003,"end":10865.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10865.489093750002,"end":10866.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10866.29909375,"end":10866.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10866.332843750002,"end":10866.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10866.383468750002,"end":10866.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10866.41721875,"end":10868.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10872.120968750001,"end":10872.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10872.930968750003,"end":10873.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10879.37721875,"end":10881.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10896.62346875,"end":10897.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10898.10846875,"end":10899.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10901.230343750001,"end":10902.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10906.64721875,"end":10907.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10907.035343750002,"end":10907.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10907.406593750002,"end":10907.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10908.351593750001,"end":10908.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10910.055968750003,"end":10910.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10910.832218750002,"end":10923.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10923.40409375,"end":10924.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10924.534718750001,"end":10928.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10929.074093750001,"end":10931.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10931.85846875,"end":10934.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10934.355968750002,"end":10934.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10935.317843750003,"end":10939.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10939.941593750002,"end":10942.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10942.55721875,"end":10944.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10944.683468750001,"end":10949.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10949.47596875,"end":10949.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10949.57721875,"end":10955.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10949.594093750002,"end":10949.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10955.348468750002,"end":10956.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10957.019093750001,"end":10975.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10972.746593750002,"end":10972.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10973.050343750001,"end":10976.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10976.25659375,"end":10979.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10979.074718750002,"end":10986.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10987.461593750002,"end":10991.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10991.96721875,"end":10993.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10992.18659375,"end":10992.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10993.92471875,"end":11000.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11001.113468750002,"end":11005.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11006.00721875,"end":11012.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11012.099093750003,"end":11034.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11034.20534375,"end":11043.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11043.722843750002,"end":11065.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11054.421593750001,"end":11055.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11060.90159375,"end":11061.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11065.15409375,"end":11070.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11070.621593750002,"end":11072.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11071.988468750002,"end":11072.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11072.29221875,"end":11073.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11074.43534375,"end":11080.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11080.34159375,"end":11080.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11080.915343750003,"end":11084.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11084.13846875,"end":11085.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11085.82596875,"end":11087.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11087.10846875,"end":11090.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11090.04471875,"end":11092.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11092.15409375,"end":11100.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11100.43971875,"end":11127.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11127.422843750002,"end":11145.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11146.710968750001,"end":11147.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11148.094718750002,"end":11151.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11151.452843750001,"end":11153.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11153.66346875,"end":11154.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11154.64221875,"end":11157.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11157.780968750001,"end":11160.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11160.784718750001,"end":11169.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11169.84659375,"end":11172.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11174.75721875,"end":11176.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11176.57971875,"end":11182.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11182.70534375,"end":11189.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11189.438468750002,"end":11192.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11192.62784375,"end":11193.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11193.35346875,"end":11200.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11201.250968750002,"end":11209.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11210.262218750002,"end":11214.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11214.750968750002,"end":11219.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11219.914718750002,"end":11222.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11223.79596875,"end":11227.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11224.94346875,"end":11225.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11227.12034375,"end":11232.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11233.161593750003,"end":11241.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11240.012843750003,"end":11246.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11246.25659375,"end":11246.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11246.89784375,"end":11249.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11249.817218750002,"end":11252.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11253.78284375,"end":11267.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11267.333468750003,"end":11269.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11270.50596875,"end":11284.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11282.453468750002,"end":11282.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11283.415343750003,"end":11285.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11286.23346875,"end":11293.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11291.70096875,"end":11291.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11292.93284375,"end":11323.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11323.628468750001,"end":11327.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11327.340968750003,"end":11327.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11327.67846875,"end":11336.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11330.05784375,"end":11330.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11336.672843750002,"end":11343.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11344.300343750001,"end":11352.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11352.653468750003,"end":11367.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11367.790343750003,"end":11369.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11369.96721875,"end":11378.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11378.472218750001,"end":11383.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11384.04096875,"end":11389.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11389.440968750001,"end":11408.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11409.04971875,"end":11412.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11412.79596875,"end":11416.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11416.96409375,"end":11420.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11420.828468750002,"end":11423.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11424.97971875,"end":11425.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11426.262218750002,"end":11428.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11428.33784375,"end":11430.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11431.071593750003,"end":11434.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11435.391593750002,"end":11436.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11437.68659375,"end":11444.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11437.72034375,"end":11438.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11443.289093750001,"end":11445.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11445.80346875,"end":11447.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11447.54159375,"end":11447.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11447.81159375,"end":11453.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11451.777218750001,"end":11452.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11453.32971875,"end":11461.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11462.070968750002,"end":11466.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11466.52596875,"end":11468.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11469.715343750002,"end":11492.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11476.02659375,"end":11476.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11492.867843750002,"end":11493.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11493.79596875,"end":11499.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11497.339718750001,"end":11497.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11499.33096875,"end":11500.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11500.64721875,"end":11503.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11503.12784375,"end":11504.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11504.29221875,"end":11506.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11506.199093750001,"end":11507.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11507.987843750001,"end":11510.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11510.50221875,"end":11513.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11513.708468750003,"end":11518.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11518.58534375,"end":11521.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11522.41596875,"end":11522.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11522.93909375,"end":11524.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11524.74471875,"end":11524.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11525.33534375,"end":11525.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11533.722218750001,"end":11536.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11556.722843750002,"end":11556.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11557.212218750003,"end":11559.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11565.801593750002,"end":11566.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11567.067218750002,"end":11567.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11567.35409375,"end":11567.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11568.602843750003,"end":11569.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11569.41284375,"end":11570.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11570.57721875,"end":11572.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11573.14221875,"end":11575.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11576.179718750001,"end":11577.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11577.64784375,"end":11579.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11579.95971875,"end":11581.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11582.558468750001,"end":11583.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11584.245968750001,"end":11587.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11588.987843750001,"end":11589.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11589.98346875,"end":11590.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11591.56971875,"end":11593.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11593.864718750003,"end":11600.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11601.32346875,"end":11606.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11606.95971875,"end":11609.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11609.59221875,"end":11610.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11611.44846875,"end":11614.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11615.160968750002,"end":11617.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11618.18159375,"end":11619.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11619.329093750002,"end":11620.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11620.577843750001,"end":11622.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11624.30721875,"end":11628.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11629.032218750002,"end":11629.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11629.58909375,"end":11640.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11641.35096875,"end":11643.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11643.02159375,"end":11643.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11643.13971875,"end":11645.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11643.19034375,"end":11643.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11643.61221875,"end":11644.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11646.56534375,"end":11647.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11647.93221875,"end":11655.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11653.821593750003,"end":11655.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11656.15034375,"end":11658.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11658.31034375,"end":11658.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11658.36096875,"end":11659.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11660.11596875,"end":11660.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11660.89221875,"end":11662.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11663.49096875,"end":11671.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11671.169093750003,"end":11674.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11675.77596875,"end":11675.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11675.860343750002,"end":11680.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11680.61909375,"end":11684.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11684.43284375,"end":11684.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11684.972843750002,"end":11687.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11688.044093750003,"end":11688.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11688.499718750001,"end":11689.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11691.16596875,"end":11693.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11694.675968750002,"end":11695.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11695.65471875,"end":11698.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11699.18159375,"end":11705.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11705.67846875,"end":11707.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11708.496593750002,"end":11709.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11709.57659375,"end":11712.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11713.17096875,"end":11714.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11713.930343750002,"end":11715.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11715.668468750002,"end":11717.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11717.44034375,"end":11718.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11718.874718750001,"end":11719.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11720.477843750003,"end":11725.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11726.19846875,"end":11728.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11729.117843750002,"end":11729.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11729.20221875,"end":11729.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11729.539718750002,"end":11730.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11730.04596875,"end":11730.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11730.07971875,"end":11730.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11730.636593750001,"end":11730.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11730.83909375,"end":11732.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11733.083468750003,"end":11733.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11734.652843750002,"end":11735.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11735.95221875,"end":11737.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11737.09971875,"end":11739.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11741.16659375,"end":11753.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11753.87346875,"end":11757.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11758.750343750002,"end":11761.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11762.36159375,"end":11764.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11764.99409375,"end":11770.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11771.254718750002,"end":11777.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11776.840343750002,"end":11778.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11779.067843750003,"end":11780.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11780.19846875,"end":11782.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11782.93221875,"end":11785.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11786.15534375,"end":11792.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11793.25971875,"end":11796.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11797.07346875,"end":11800.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11801.39346875,"end":11802.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11802.38909375,"end":11803.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11804.29596875,"end":11805.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11807.67096875,"end":11810.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11807.755343750003,"end":11808.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11810.62409375,"end":11811.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11811.72096875,"end":11813.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11814.015968750002,"end":11818.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11818.79159375,"end":11821.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11821.22159375,"end":11821.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11821.879718750002,"end":11823.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11824.17471875,"end":11825.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11825.86221875,"end":11827.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11828.74784375,"end":11830.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11831.17784375,"end":11833.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11835.362843750001,"end":11838.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11838.56909375,"end":11842.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11842.956593750001,"end":11846.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11847.32721875,"end":11848.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11849.082218750002,"end":11853.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11854.465343750002,"end":11856.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11856.574718750002,"end":11858.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11859.848468750002,"end":11869.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11870.614718750003,"end":11875.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11876.099093750003,"end":11881.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11882.29221875,"end":11882.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11882.730968750002,"end":11882.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11883.28784375,"end":11883.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11883.945968750002,"end":11889.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11889.97034375,"end":11897.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11898.15471875,"end":11899.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11899.487843750001,"end":11904.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11904.80346875,"end":11914.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11914.152218750001,"end":11915.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11915.519093750001,"end":11915.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11915.60346875,"end":11915.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11916.71721875,"end":11920.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11921.13846875,"end":11922.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11923.534718750001,"end":11925.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11926.11659375,"end":11930.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11931.516593750002,"end":11933.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11933.42346875,"end":11934.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11936.29221875,"end":11936.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11937.675968750002,"end":11938.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11940.679718750001,"end":11941.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11942.24909375,"end":11943.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11944.797218750002,"end":11946.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11947.51409375,"end":11948.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11949.52221875,"end":11951.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11953.032218750002,"end":11959.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11960.17034375,"end":11968.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11969.519093750001,"end":11970.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11971.847843750002,"end":11973.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11974.68284375,"end":11975.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11975.847218750001,"end":11977.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11979.15471875,"end":11981.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11982.68159375,"end":11985.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11986.630343750003,"end":11989.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11990.29221875,"end":11994.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11995.489718750003,"end":12002.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12004.112843750001,"end":12005.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12005.90159375,"end":12007.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12007.352843750003,"end":12012.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12012.95534375,"end":12014.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12015.43596875,"end":12021.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12022.45596875,"end":12025.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12026.219093750002,"end":12033.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12035.399093750002,"end":12037.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12038.875343750002,"end":12040.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12041.32221875,"end":12042.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12044.106593750003,"end":12044.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12045.203468750002,"end":12045.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12046.637843750003,"end":12054.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12056.08784375,"end":12057.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12059.327843750001,"end":12060.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12061.69034375,"end":12063.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12064.17096875,"end":12065.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12067.343468750001,"end":12067.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12068.524718750003,"end":12069.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12070.33034375,"end":12071.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12072.372218750003,"end":12073.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12074.262218750002,"end":12081.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12082.14284375,"end":12087.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12088.57221875,"end":12091.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12092.250968750002,"end":12094.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12095.507843750001,"end":12101.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12101.835968750001,"end":12102.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12103.101593750001,"end":12104.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12105.683468750001,"end":12106.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12106.425968750002,"end":12107.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12107.961593750002,"end":12108.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12110.94846875,"end":12111.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12112.079093750002,"end":12113.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12114.120968750001,"end":12116.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12115.707218750002,"end":12122.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12118.74471875,"end":12119.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12119.38596875,"end":12119.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12120.820343750001,"end":12121.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12122.727218750002,"end":12123.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12125.410343750002,"end":12127.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12128.785343750002,"end":12129.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12129.93284375,"end":12131.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12133.03784375,"end":12134.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12134.421593750001,"end":12136.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12136.71659375,"end":12142.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12142.36971875,"end":12142.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12142.403468750003,"end":12148.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12142.42034375,"end":12143.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12148.782218750002,"end":12157.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12157.371593750002,"end":12158.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12159.362843750001,"end":12160.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12161.117843750002,"end":12162.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12162.737843750001,"end":12163.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12163.66596875,"end":12168.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12168.610343750002,"end":12170.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12170.31471875,"end":12179.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12170.46659375,"end":12170.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12178.515968750002,"end":12179.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12179.106593750003,"end":12179.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12179.562218750001,"end":12182.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12181.671593750001,"end":12181.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12182.61659375,"end":12186.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12186.88596875,"end":12189.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12190.14284375,"end":12190.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12191.070968750002,"end":12192.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12193.99034375,"end":12195.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12195.62721875,"end":12201.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12195.660968750002,"end":12196.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12201.465968750003,"end":12202.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12203.997218750003,"end":12204.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12204.97596875,"end":12208.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12209.19471875,"end":12209.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12209.937218750001,"end":12213.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12213.91971875,"end":12216.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12218.40846875,"end":12218.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12219.31971875,"end":12220.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12221.14221875,"end":12222.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12222.914093750001,"end":12222.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12223.25159375,"end":12228.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12227.520968750003,"end":12229.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12229.292843750001,"end":12229.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12229.782218750002,"end":12240.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12240.531593750002,"end":12242.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12240.56534375,"end":12241.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12241.88159375,"end":12244.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12245.796593750001,"end":12247.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12248.125343750002,"end":12249.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12249.930968750003,"end":12251.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12252.69846875,"end":12252.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12253.660343750002,"end":12254.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12254.90909375,"end":12259.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12260.089718750001,"end":12261.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12262.28346875,"end":12264.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12264.696593750003,"end":12265.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12265.40534375,"end":12267.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12268.206593750001,"end":12269.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12270.164093750001,"end":12270.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12271.058468750001,"end":12273.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12273.927218750003,"end":12276.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12276.762218750002,"end":12277.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12278.46659375,"end":12281.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12282.094718750002,"end":12283.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12283.42784375,"end":12284.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12285.503468750001,"end":12287.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12287.730968750002,"end":12297.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12298.530968750001,"end":12300.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12300.62346875,"end":12303.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12304.09971875,"end":12306.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12307.52534375,"end":12308.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12309.31409375,"end":12310.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12311.305343750002,"end":12314.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12314.66346875,"end":12315.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12315.625343750002,"end":12322.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12317.22846875,"end":12317.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12321.210968750001,"end":12321.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12322.155968750001,"end":12322.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12322.40909375,"end":12322.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12322.425968750002,"end":12322.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12322.442843750003,"end":12325.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12323.320343750001,"end":12323.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12325.480343750001,"end":12327.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12327.25221875,"end":12328.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12329.766593750002,"end":12331.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12339.13221875,"end":12339.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12340.70159375,"end":12340.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12342.895343750002,"end":12344.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12345.156593750002,"end":12346.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12346.43909375,"end":12347.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12348.599093750003,"end":12349.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12351.78846875,"end":12354.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12355.450343750003,"end":12366.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12366.621593750002,"end":12368.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12369.18659375,"end":12370.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12370.38471875,"end":12371.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12371.515343750001,"end":12372.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12371.54909375,"end":12371.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12372.477218750002,"end":12377.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12378.265343750001,"end":12379.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12379.71659375,"end":12381.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12381.67409375,"end":12382.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12383.41221875,"end":12384.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12384.27284375,"end":12384.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12384.863468750002,"end":12385.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12385.032218750002,"end":12387.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12387.074093750001,"end":12391.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12387.090968750003,"end":12387.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12387.968468750001,"end":12388.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12391.090343750002,"end":12393.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12392.44034375,"end":12398.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12393.06471875,"end":12393.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12393.098468750002,"end":12393.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12394.161593750003,"end":12394.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12394.195343750001,"end":12394.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12394.583468750003,"end":12394.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12394.85346875,"end":12395.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12399.359093750001,"end":12401.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12401.02971875,"end":12405.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12405.46784375,"end":12407.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12407.864093750002,"end":12410.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12409.804718750001,"end":12415.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12412.757843750001,"end":12413.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12413.297843750002,"end":12419.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12419.28846875,"end":12427.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12421.988468750002,"end":12422.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12426.61221875,"end":12427.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12427.422218750002,"end":12428.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12428.67096875,"end":12430.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12429.059093750002,"end":12433.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12433.93596875,"end":12434.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12434.83034375,"end":12435.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12435.285968750002,"end":12437.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12437.597843750002,"end":12446.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12446.71034375,"end":12449.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12450.92909375,"end":12454.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12454.55721875,"end":12455.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12455.856593750003,"end":12485.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12487.227218750002,"end":12494.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12487.969718750002,"end":12489.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12493.67346875,"end":12496.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12495.27659375,"end":12496.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12496.710968750001,"end":12496.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12496.96409375,"end":12497.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12497.183468750001,"end":12504.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12497.26784375,"end":12498.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12500.507843750001,"end":12501.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12503.106593750003,"end":12504.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12504.675968750002,"end":12505.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12505.55346875,"end":12511.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12505.587218750003,"end":12506.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12508.81034375,"end":12515.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12512.472218750001,"end":12514.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12514.547843750002,"end":12522.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12518.51346875,"end":12525.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12525.28034375,"end":12531.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12526.02284375,"end":12526.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12528.80721875,"end":12528.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12531.55784375,"end":12534.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12531.59159375,"end":12531.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12532.23284375,"end":12532.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12534.696593750003,"end":12551.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12551.976593750001,"end":12566.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12566.52284375,"end":12567.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12568.34534375,"end":12569.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12569.374718750001,"end":12569.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12569.89784375,"end":12573.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12573.340343750002,"end":12574.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12574.386593750001,"end":12574.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12574.403468750003,"end":12582.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12581.00159375,"end":12581.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12582.06471875,"end":12599.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12584.91659375,"end":12592.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12600.32346875,"end":12601.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12601.926593750002,"end":12604.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12604.710968750001,"end":12606.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12607.140968750002,"end":12614.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12610.33034375,"end":12612.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12612.996593750002,"end":12613.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12614.02596875,"end":12615.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12615.34221875,"end":12617.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12615.359093750001,"end":12632.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12628.94346875,"end":12629.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12629.922218750002,"end":12631.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12632.11596875,"end":12640.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12633.938468750002,"end":12635.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12635.96346875,"end":12635.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12640.519718750002,"end":12650.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12650.070968750002,"end":12650.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12650.40846875,"end":12658.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12658.035968750002,"end":12665.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12665.055968750003,"end":12669.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12666.96284375,"end":12679.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12678.960968750001,"end":12682.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12682.25159375,"end":12687.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12683.68596875,"end":12685.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12685.94721875,"end":12686.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12687.415343750003,"end":12694.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12695.059718750003,"end":12715.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12705.184718750003,"end":12708.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12715.27596875,"end":12719.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12719.427218750003,"end":12727.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12720.33846875,"end":12721.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12723.578468750002,"end":12726.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12727.08846875,"end":12728.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12728.30346875,"end":12731.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12730.277843750002,"end":12732.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12732.42096875,"end":12750.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12734.68221875,"end":12734.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12737.618468750003,"end":12737.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12750.03846875,"end":12757.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12756.02909375,"end":12756.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12757.277843750002,"end":12762.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12762.171593750001,"end":12762.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12762.94784375,"end":12762.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12762.964718750001,"end":12762.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12762.99846875,"end":12763.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12763.032218750002,"end":12763.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12763.234718750002,"end":12764.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12764.027843750002,"end":12768.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12764.04471875,"end":12767.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12768.33096875,"end":12786.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12775.87409375,"end":12776.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12777.409718750001,"end":12777.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12781.61159375,"end":12782.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12786.117218750001,"end":12786.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12786.218468750001,"end":12787.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12786.336593750002,"end":12788.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12787.298468750003,"end":12787.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12788.969093750002,"end":12793.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12791.36534375,"end":12806.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12801.152843750002,"end":12802.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12805.18596875,"end":12819.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12817.96034375,"end":12824.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12821.048468750003,"end":12822.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12823.47846875,"end":12830.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12830.009093750003,"end":12830.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12830.144093750001,"end":12840.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12830.22846875,"end":12830.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12837.02909375,"end":12843.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12843.57659375,"end":12843.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12843.77909375,"end":12856.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12846.68159375,"end":12846.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12846.85034375,"end":12846.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12846.884093750003,"end":12846.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12846.968468750001,"end":12847.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12847.17096875,"end":12847.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12856.45221875,"end":12856.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12856.469093750002,"end":12863.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12864.34971875,"end":12882.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12883.367843750002,"end":12885.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12883.536593750003,"end":12885.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12885.03846875,"end":12905.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12891.09659375,"end":12893.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12895.26471875,"end":12895.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12903.01034375,"end":12903.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12905.845343750003,"end":12914.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12912.899093750002,"end":12919.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12918.164093750001,"end":12918.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12919.04159375,"end":12919.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12919.26096875,"end":12919.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12919.969718750002,"end":12948.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12946.41284375,"end":12947.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12948.032843750003,"end":12957.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12950.68221875,"end":12951.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12951.981593750003,"end":12953.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12956.453468750002,"end":12957.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12957.887843750003,"end":12958.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12957.921593750001,"end":12958.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12958.579718750003,"end":12960.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12960.925343750001,"end":12963.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12961.44846875,"end":12964.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12964.199093750001,"end":12967.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12966.24096875,"end":12968.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12968.02971875,"end":12989.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12968.367218750001,"end":12968.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12969.177218750003,"end":12969.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12973.868468750003,"end":12979.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12985.54596875,"end":12987.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12989.190968750001,"end":12997.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12995.08034375,"end":12998.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12998.60721875,"end":13007.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13005.188468750002,"end":13008.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13008.32721875,"end":13025.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13017.49034375,"end":13017.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13017.96284375,"end":13020.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13020.03846875,"end":13021.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13021.911593750003,"end":13022.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13022.012843750003,"end":13022.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13025.708468750003,"end":13033.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13033.352843750003,"end":13035.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13035.884093750003,"end":13040.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13038.364718750003,"end":13039.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13040.254718750002,"end":13047.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13042.07721875,"end":13043.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13047.71346875,"end":13055.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13054.176593750002,"end":13057.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13057.028468750003,"end":13057.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13057.450343750003,"end":13057.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13057.88909375,"end":13059.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13059.47534375,"end":13064.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13075.55721875,"end":13076.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13077.261593750001,"end":13080.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13080.687218750001,"end":13081.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13086.829718750003,"end":13087.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13089.495968750001,"end":13090.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13091.200343750003,"end":13092.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13092.53346875,"end":13093.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13093.59659375,"end":13096.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13096.97159375,"end":13100.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13100.12721875,"end":13100.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13100.29596875,"end":13100.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13100.414093750001,"end":13100.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13100.532218750002,"end":13104.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13100.61659375,"end":13102.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13103.856593750003,"end":13110.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13107.214718750001,"end":13107.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13109.762843750003,"end":13110.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13110.859718750002,"end":13111.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13111.028468750003,"end":13111.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13111.484093750001,"end":13111.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13111.720343750003,"end":13114.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13112.20971875,"end":13112.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13113.188468750002,"end":13113.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13114.36971875,"end":13115.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13115.280968750001,"end":13117.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13117.99784375,"end":13124.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13125.270968750003,"end":13126.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13127.34659375,"end":13127.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13127.97096875,"end":13137.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13138.079093750002,"end":13138.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13138.112843750001,"end":13140.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13140.559718750003,"end":13147.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13142.078468750002,"end":13142.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13142.129093750002,"end":13142.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13145.925968750002,"end":13149.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13150.38096875,"end":13158.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13150.65096875,"end":13158.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13161.41721875,"end":13162.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13162.699718750002,"end":13166.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13166.10846875,"end":13170.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13168.032218750002,"end":13168.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13170.69846875,"end":13176.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13177.532843750003,"end":13181.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13182.39284375,"end":13183.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13184.417843750001,"end":13188.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13188.585968750001,"end":13189.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13190.374718750001,"end":13190.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13190.88096875,"end":13192.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13191.218468750001,"end":13195.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13194.137843750003,"end":13195.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13195.487843750001,"end":13204.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13204.667843750001,"end":13204.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13204.75221875,"end":13204.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13204.80284375,"end":13204.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13204.80284375,"end":13219.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13204.836593750002,"end":13204.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13209.477218750002,"end":13210.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13219.028468750003,"end":13219.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13220.42909375,"end":13220.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13220.445968750002,"end":13225.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13225.69409375,"end":13235.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13235.97096875,"end":13237.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13238.333468750003,"end":13239.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13239.227843750003,"end":13240.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13241.72534375,"end":13242.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13241.910968750002,"end":13242.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13242.484718750002,"end":13247.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13247.024093750002,"end":13252.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13253.554718750001,"end":13255.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13255.91721875,"end":13255.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13255.934093750002,"end":13256.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13256.74409375,"end":13256.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13257.21659375,"end":13264.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13264.03409375,"end":13270.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13270.71659375,"end":13279.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13270.73346875,"end":13271.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13273.804718750001,"end":13275.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13279.559093750002,"end":13292.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13284.739718750003,"end":13284.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13284.80721875,"end":13285.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13285.65096875,"end":13287.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13287.203468750002,"end":13287.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13287.945968750002,"end":13288.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13288.23284375,"end":13290.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13293.126593750003,"end":13293.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13294.206593750001,"end":13294.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13295.18534375,"end":13296.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13296.923468750003,"end":13297.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13297.969718750002,"end":13299.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13299.167843750001,"end":13303.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13300.433468750001,"end":13315.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13315.03034375,"end":13317.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13318.152218750001,"end":13318.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13318.860968750003,"end":13319.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13320.008468750002,"end":13321.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13322.219093750002,"end":13322.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13323.180968750003,"end":13323.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13323.99096875,"end":13324.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13324.952843750001,"end":13326.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13326.859718750002,"end":13347.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13327.062218750001,"end":13327.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13329.137843750003,"end":13330.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13331.567843750003,"end":13333.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13341.203468750002,"end":13342.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13343.059718750003,"end":13343.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13343.17784375,"end":13347.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13347.278468750003,"end":13354.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13353.083468750003,"end":13354.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13355.125343750002,"end":13364.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13365.06471875,"end":13365.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13365.081593750001,"end":13365.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13365.11534375,"end":13366.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13367.055968750003,"end":13367.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13368.203468750002,"end":13383.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13374.66659375,"end":13377.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13380.015968750002,"end":13380.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13383.863468750002,"end":13384.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13384.89284375,"end":13385.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13386.52971875,"end":13388.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13388.75721875,"end":13389.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13389.870968750001,"end":13391.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13391.609093750001,"end":13393.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13394.190968750001,"end":13400.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13400.02971875,"end":13404.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13405.699718750002,"end":13408.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13409.09159375,"end":13415.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13415.622218750003,"end":13415.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13415.63909375,"end":13415.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13415.672843750002,"end":13415.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13415.976593750001,"end":13442.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13441.879718750002,"end":13443.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13443.668468750002,"end":13443.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13443.85409375,"end":13443.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13443.921593750001,"end":13443.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13443.95534375,"end":13451.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13444.95096875,"end":13448.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13451.02596875,"end":13451.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13451.65034375,"end":13451.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13452.08909375,"end":13452.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13452.13971875,"end":13453.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13454.114093750002,"end":13454.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13455.34596875,"end":13455.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13456.274093750002,"end":13464.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13465.403468750003,"end":13466.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13466.331593750001,"end":13469.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13469.58846875,"end":13476.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13470.820343750001,"end":13475.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13475.410343750002,"end":13475.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13475.44409375,"end":13475.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13475.528468750003,"end":13475.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13475.629718750002,"end":13475.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13475.86596875,"end":13476.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13476.49034375,"end":13483.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13479.105968750002,"end":13482.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13482.902843750002,"end":13483.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13483.08846875,"end":13483.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13483.122218750003,"end":13483.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13483.61159375,"end":13484.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13483.66221875,"end":13483.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13483.847843750002,"end":13483.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13483.88159375,"end":13483.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13485.19784375,"end":13485.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13485.29909375,"end":13486.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13485.704093750002,"end":13485.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13485.83909375,"end":13486.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13487.239718750003,"end":13487.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13488.10034375,"end":13490.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13492.386593750001,"end":13494.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13494.867218750001,"end":13494.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13494.95159375,"end":13496.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13499.507843750001,"end":13500.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13500.85784375,"end":13508.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13508.839718750001,"end":13518.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13509.953468750002,"end":13510.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13510.03784375,"end":13511.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13518.509093750003,"end":13519.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13519.977218750002,"end":13520.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13520.63534375,"end":13520.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13520.669093750003,"end":13521.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13524.668468750002,"end":13526.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13526.609093750001,"end":13527.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13528.347218750001,"end":13528.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13528.54971875,"end":13529.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13528.634093750003,"end":13529.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13529.34284375,"end":13533.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13533.71346875,"end":13541.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13541.172218750002,"end":13542.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13542.77534375,"end":13545.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13546.234718750002,"end":13547.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13547.095343750003,"end":13548.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13549.137218750002,"end":13558.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13558.97534375,"end":13570.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13571.10846875,"end":13571.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13571.817218750002,"end":13573.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13572.69471875,"end":13572.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13573.251593750003,"end":13574.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13575.782843750003,"end":13581.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13582.313468750002,"end":13589.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13589.87346875,"end":13592.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13592.235968750003,"end":13596.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13596.15096875,"end":13598.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13598.83409375,"end":13599.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13599.914093750001,"end":13601.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13601.43284375,"end":13602.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13602.563468750002,"end":13603.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13603.559093750002,"end":13609.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13605.499718750001,"end":13606.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13606.309718750003,"end":13607.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13608.06471875,"end":13609.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13609.75221875,"end":13610.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13610.24159375,"end":13618.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13618.425968750002,"end":13620.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13620.585968750001,"end":13625.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13625.715968750003,"end":13626.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13626.964718750001,"end":13628.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13629.64784375,"end":13630.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13630.94721875,"end":13634.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13634.035343750002,"end":13635.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13635.570968750002,"end":13636.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13637.12346875,"end":13650.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13647.94034375,"end":13649.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13650.10034375,"end":13653.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13652.294093750003,"end":13653.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13653.30659375,"end":13653.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13653.644093750001,"end":13656.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13654.454093750002,"end":13655.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13656.023468750001,"end":13659.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13658.655968750001,"end":13659.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13660.039718750002,"end":13664.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13664.528468750003,"end":13665.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13666.43534375,"end":13669.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13670.23221875,"end":13671.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13671.801593750002,"end":13676.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13672.206593750001,"end":13674.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13675.058468750001,"end":13675.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13676.50971875,"end":13678.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13679.327843750001,"end":13682.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13682.669093750003,"end":13683.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13683.85034375,"end":13684.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13684.64346875,"end":13686.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13687.714718750001,"end":13688.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13689.317843750003,"end":13690.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13690.364093750002,"end":13696.439093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13691.22471875,"end":13692.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13697.063468750002,"end":13707.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13707.72846875,"end":13712.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13713.01034375,"end":13713.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13715.11971875,"end":13716.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13717.60034375,"end":13718.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13718.629718750002,"end":13721.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13721.97096875,"end":13726.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13725.970343750003,"end":13726.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13726.274093750002,"end":13733.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13733.26034375,"end":13734.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13734.036593750003,"end":13734.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13735.251593750003,"end":13740.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13746.878468750001,"end":13748.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13748.515343750001,"end":13749.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13750.50659375,"end":13751.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13757.003468750001,"end":13758.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13758.876593750003,"end":13759.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13759.230968750002,"end":13764.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13764.917843750001,"end":13767.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13767.769718750002,"end":13770.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13771.144718750002,"end":13774.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13775.684093750002,"end":13778.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13779.126593750003,"end":13784.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13784.62784375,"end":13785.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13786.281593750002,"end":13786.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13786.821593750003,"end":13788.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13789.487843750001,"end":13792.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13793.234093750001,"end":13795.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13796.001593750003,"end":13797.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13797.992843750002,"end":13802.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13805.316593750002,"end":13807.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13808.40471875,"end":13809.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13809.704093750002,"end":13810.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13811.47596875,"end":13813.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13814.175968750002,"end":13815.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13815.84659375,"end":13816.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13817.618468750003,"end":13818.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13819.84596875,"end":13838.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13836.012218750002,"end":13836.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13838.172218750002,"end":13843.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13843.184093750002,"end":13857.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13846.761593750001,"end":13848.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13851.70596875,"end":13852.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13852.70159375,"end":13852.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13858.067843750003,"end":13858.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13858.101593750001,"end":13859.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13859.485343750002,"end":13859.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13859.82284375,"end":13861.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13862.657843750003,"end":13863.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13863.687218750001,"end":13866.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13866.606593750003,"end":13869.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13869.914093750001,"end":13881.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13877.102843750003,"end":13878.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13881.996593750002,"end":13884.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13885.08471875,"end":13885.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13886.215343750002,"end":13892.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13893.927218750003,"end":13897.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13898.53409375,"end":13904.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13905.739718750003,"end":13906.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13907.106593750003,"end":13907.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13908.60846875,"end":13911.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13912.270343750002,"end":13916.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13917.231593750003,"end":13919.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13922.175968750002,"end":13923.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13924.504718750002,"end":13924.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13925.297843750002,"end":13929.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13929.53346875,"end":13932.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13933.49909375,"end":13934.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13935.01784375,"end":13936.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13937.110343750002,"end":13938.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13939.050968750002,"end":13940.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13942.172843750002,"end":13942.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13943.320343750001,"end":13945.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13945.446593750003,"end":13945.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13945.547843750002,"end":13955.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13955.892218750003,"end":13959.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13959.95909375,"end":13970.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13963.941593750002,"end":13974.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13970.87721875,"end":13970.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13970.894093750001,"end":13970.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13974.94409375,"end":13976.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13976.985968750003,"end":13980.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13980.968468750001,"end":13995.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13995.953468750002,"end":13996.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13997.657843750003,"end":13998.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13999.379093750002,"end":14000.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14000.661593750003,"end":14001.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14002.112843750001,"end":14002.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14003.26034375,"end":14004.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14004.222218750001,"end":14008.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14009.31846875,"end":14010.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14011.259093750003,"end":14012.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14013.081593750001,"end":14017.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14017.75596875,"end":14020.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14021.29971875,"end":14024.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14025.214718750001,"end":14026.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14026.699718750002,"end":14027.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14028.89346875,"end":14032.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14032.656593750002,"end":14033.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14034.32721875,"end":14037.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14038.259093750003,"end":14041.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14042.579093750002,"end":14043.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14043.743468750003,"end":14044.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14045.093468750001,"end":14046.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14047.08471875,"end":14048.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14049.02534375,"end":14049.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14050.29096875,"end":14051.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14052.04596875,"end":14052.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14053.530968750001,"end":14054.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14056.551593750002,"end":14058.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14058.84659375,"end":14060.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14062.559093750002,"end":14070.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14064.70221875,"end":14065.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14065.02284375,"end":14065.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14066.27159375,"end":14066.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14066.406593750002,"end":14066.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14070.96284375,"end":14071.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14071.03034375,"end":14073.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14073.66284375,"end":14076.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14073.679718750001,"end":14080.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14077.442843750003,"end":14077.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14077.577843750001,"end":14079.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14079.94034375,"end":14079.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14080.109093750001,"end":14080.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14080.19346875,"end":14081.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14080.21034375,"end":14085.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14097.321593750003,"end":14100.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14103.126593750003,"end":14103.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14103.88596875,"end":14105.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14107.29471875,"end":14107.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14108.290343750003,"end":14108.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14109.488468750002,"end":14109.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14110.36596875,"end":14111.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14111.83409375,"end":14116.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14116.778468750003,"end":14124.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14124.692843750003,"end":14128.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14129.485343750002,"end":14139.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14140.251593750003,"end":14147.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14148.199718750002,"end":14149.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14149.60034375,"end":14150.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14150.76471875,"end":14154.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14154.899093750002,"end":14165.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14166.171593750001,"end":14172.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14172.735968750003,"end":14176.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14176.60034375,"end":14183.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14184.39659375,"end":14187.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14187.83909375,"end":14194.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14194.977218750002,"end":14203.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14203.87034375,"end":14213.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14215.29471875,"end":14219.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14220.222218750001,"end":14230.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14230.75221875,"end":14232.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14232.473468750002,"end":14236.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14236.489718750003,"end":14238.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14238.29534375,"end":14240.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14241.265343750001,"end":14258.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14258.562218750001,"end":14264.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14266.122218750003,"end":14272.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14272.855343750001,"end":14276.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14277.597218750001,"end":14282.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14282.79471875,"end":14291.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14291.704718750003,"end":14295.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14292.66659375,"end":14293.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14293.88159375,"end":14298.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14296.395968750003,"end":14297.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14298.218468750001,"end":14313.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14313.254093750002,"end":14324.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14314.064093750003,"end":14315.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14316.359093750001,"end":14317.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14318.13096875,"end":14318.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14324.965343750002,"end":14324.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14325.539093750001,"end":14330.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14330.247218750003,"end":14333.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14334.128468750001,"end":14337.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14336.71034375,"end":14336.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14337.01409375,"end":14337.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14337.030968750001,"end":14337.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14337.081593750001,"end":14337.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14337.149093750002,"end":14337.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14337.520343750002,"end":14337.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14337.570968750002,"end":14337.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14337.621593750002,"end":14337.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14337.689093750003,"end":14337.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14338.33034375,"end":14348.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14341.65471875,"end":14342.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14344.45596875,"end":14345.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14347.442843750003,"end":14368.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14349.265343750001,"end":14349.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14349.704093750002,"end":14350.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14366.477843750003,"end":14367.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14368.587218750003,"end":14368.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14368.620968750001,"end":14368.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14368.671593750001,"end":14368.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14368.85721875,"end":14411.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14411.871593750002,"end":14424.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14424.629093750002,"end":14434.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14435.09159375,"end":14436.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14436.27284375,"end":14466.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14466.614093750002,"end":14466.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14466.985343750002,"end":14473.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14474.64659375,"end":14476.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14477.22846875,"end":14499.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14484.332843750002,"end":14484.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14493.69846875,"end":14493.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14493.715343750002,"end":14494.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14496.550343750001,"end":14496.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14498.085968750001,"end":14508.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14508.902843750002,"end":14517.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14510.809718750003,"end":14511.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14512.04159375,"end":14512.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14513.93159375,"end":14515.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14517.441593750002,"end":14522.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14519.550968750002,"end":14519.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14521.94721875,"end":14522.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14523.21284375,"end":14533.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14541.015968750002,"end":14557.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14558.17784375,"end":14558.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14559.156593750002,"end":14559.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14560.540343750003,"end":14563.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14561.839718750001,"end":14562.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14563.544093750003,"end":14565.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14566.14284375,"end":14578.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14578.815968750001,"end":14584.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14584.992218750001,"end":14585.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14586.055343750002,"end":14587.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14588.063468750002,"end":14589.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14589.227843750003,"end":14589.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14590.08846875,"end":14591.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14591.08409375,"end":14596.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14597.445968750002,"end":14597.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14597.90159375,"end":14597.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14597.93534375,"end":14618.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14618.910968750002,"end":14619.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14619.434093750002,"end":14619.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14619.484718750002,"end":14619.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14619.653468750003,"end":14621.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14621.99909375,"end":14636.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14636.528468750003,"end":14638.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14638.890968750002,"end":14640.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14640.51096875,"end":14642.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14643.312218750001,"end":14646.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14647.024718750003,"end":14649.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14649.62346875,"end":14650.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14651.547218750002,"end":14654.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14654.26409375,"end":14655.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14656.22159375,"end":14658.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14658.70221875,"end":14658.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14658.719093750002,"end":14658.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14658.972218750001,"end":14660.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14659.664093750001,"end":14660.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14660.355968750002,"end":14667.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14667.49409375,"end":14668.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14669.08034375,"end":14671.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14671.392218750003,"end":14674.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14674.41284375,"end":14677.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14677.973468750002,"end":14678.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14678.074718750002,"end":14678.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14678.09159375,"end":14678.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14678.395343750002,"end":14678.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14678.41221875,"end":14685.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14686.208468750003,"end":14714.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14714.946593750003,"end":14717.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14716.90409375,"end":14720.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14720.262218750002,"end":14722.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14723.434718750003,"end":14725.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14725.476593750001,"end":14726.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14727.02909375,"end":14730.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14730.589718750001,"end":14745.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14746.23284375,"end":14748.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14748.375968750002,"end":14750.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14750.805968750003,"end":14752.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14752.93221875,"end":14761.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14761.859093750001,"end":14765.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14766.06096875,"end":14768.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14768.204093750002,"end":14774.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14774.49846875,"end":14783.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14783.50971875,"end":14785.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14786.142218750003,"end":14789.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14789.027843750002,"end":14789.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14789.06159375,"end":14791.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14791.035968750002,"end":14791.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14791.862843750001,"end":14805.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14806.105343750001,"end":14810.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14811.269093750001,"end":14817.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14818.37346875,"end":14818.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14818.390343750001,"end":14818.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14818.47471875,"end":14818.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14818.69409375,"end":14838.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14820.33096875,"end":14821.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14821.02284375,"end":14821.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14821.157843750003,"end":14821.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14839.24784375,"end":14843.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14844.192218750002,"end":14850.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14850.75659375,"end":14854.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14854.92471875,"end":14855.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14855.852843750003,"end":14857.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14857.101593750001,"end":14857.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14857.911593750003,"end":14862.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14862.164093750001,"end":14863.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14864.99909375,"end":14868.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14868.542843750001,"end":14870.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14870.280968750001,"end":14873.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14873.36909375,"end":14875.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14875.59659375,"end":14882.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14882.329718750003,"end":14887.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14887.527218750001,"end":14887.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14887.949093750001,"end":14888.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14888.961593750002,"end":14890.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14889.180968750003,"end":14889.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14890.227218750002,"end":14891.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14890.29471875,"end":14893.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14893.349093750003,"end":14900.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14895.390968750002,"end":14895.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14900.622218750003,"end":14905.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14905.75221875,"end":14910.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14910.54471875,"end":14914.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14915.60721875,"end":14918.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14917.817843750003,"end":14922.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14919.758468750002,"end":14919.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14920.61909375,"end":14921.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14923.335968750001,"end":14927.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14927.36909375,"end":14931.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14932.07721875,"end":14935.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14935.87409375,"end":14940.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14940.599093750003,"end":14950.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14950.99409375,"end":14952.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14953.289093750001,"end":14956.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14956.242218750001,"end":14960.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14960.22471875,"end":14975.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14976.47534375,"end":14977.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14978.331593750001,"end":14978.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14979.192218750002,"end":14980.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14991.257843750001,"end":14993.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14994.56534375,"end":14995.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14996.20221875,"end":14997.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14997.754718750002,"end":14998.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14998.68284375,"end":14999.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14999.543468750002,"end":14999.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15000.84284375,"end":15001.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15003.559718750003,"end":15005.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15005.01096875,"end":15005.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15005.280968750001,"end":15006.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15006.597218750001,"end":15006.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15007.575968750003,"end":15011.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15014.71409375,"end":15016.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15017.71784375,"end":15017.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15017.886593750001,"end":15018.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15018.004718750002,"end":15018.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15022.949093750001,"end":15024.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15028.58534375,"end":15028.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15028.602218750002,"end":15029.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15031.285343750002,"end":15032.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15033.69846875,"end":15035.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15044.734718750002,"end":15045.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15045.13971875,"end":15046.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15045.156593750002,"end":15045.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15045.257843750001,"end":15045.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15048.160343750002,"end":15049.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15051.012218750002,"end":15052.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15053.290343750003,"end":15054.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15056.378468750001,"end":15057.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15058.21784375,"end":15059.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15061.94721875,"end":15061.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15061.96409375,"end":15064.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15065.69346875,"end":15070.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15070.55346875,"end":15073.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15074.468468750001,"end":15085.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15087.715343750002,"end":15090.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15090.094718750002,"end":15091.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15092.895968750003,"end":15095.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15095.629718750002,"end":15097.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15099.696593750003,"end":15104.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15105.012218750002,"end":15115.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15115.626593750003,"end":15138.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15139.234718750002,"end":15140.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15141.394718750002,"end":15143.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15143.402843750002,"end":15144.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15145.343468750001,"end":15147.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15149.376593750003,"end":15151.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15154.253468750001,"end":15164.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15164.597843750002,"end":15166.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15167.466593750003,"end":15168.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15169.255343750003,"end":15171.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15172.05659375,"end":15173.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15173.54159375,"end":15174.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15175.195343750001,"end":15175.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15176.34284375,"end":15177.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15178.367843750002,"end":15181.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15181.77659375,"end":15183.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15184.172843750002,"end":15184.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15185.219093750002,"end":15188.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15190.973468750002,"end":15219.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15219.559718750003,"end":15222.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15223.677218750003,"end":15226.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15227.69346875,"end":15229.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15232.097843750002,"end":15233.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15233.76846875,"end":15243.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15244.112843750001,"end":15255.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15249.310343750003,"end":15249.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15255.672218750002,"end":15258.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15258.777218750001,"end":15259.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15260.009093750003,"end":15265.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15266.30346875,"end":15267.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15267.88971875,"end":15277.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15278.79096875,"end":15280.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15280.42784375,"end":15281.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15282.60471875,"end":15287.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15287.886593750001,"end":15290.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15291.649718750003,"end":15292.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15294.687218750001,"end":15295.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15295.63221875,"end":15298.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15298.821593750003,"end":15299.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15299.817218750002,"end":15303.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15304.204718750003,"end":15306.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15307.37721875,"end":15308.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15309.452843750001,"end":15312.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15312.743468750003,"end":15315.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15316.35471875,"end":15318.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15319.527218750001,"end":15320.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15320.759093750003,"end":15321.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15322.14284375,"end":15325.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15326.547218750002,"end":15327.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15328.234718750002,"end":15333.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15334.86659375,"end":15338.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15341.954093750002,"end":15345.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15346.25721875,"end":15353.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15354.171593750001,"end":15372.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15372.700343750003,"end":15374.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15377.94846875,"end":15377.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15377.965343750002,"end":15385.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15385.761593750001,"end":15386.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15385.997843750003,"end":15387.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15387.22971875,"end":15387.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15388.208468750003,"end":15437.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15395.02596875,"end":15395.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15395.29596875,"end":15395.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15395.582843750002,"end":15395.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15400.66221875,"end":15401.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15401.03346875,"end":15401.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15437.06159375,"end":15437.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15437.078468750002,"end":15437.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15437.247218750003,"end":15437.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15437.26409375,"end":15438.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15438.023468750001,"end":15442.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15441.297218750002,"end":15441.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15442.461593750002,"end":15442.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15442.86659375,"end":15442.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15442.934093750002,"end":15443.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15443.153468750003,"end":15443.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15443.794718750003,"end":15443.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15443.86221875,"end":15443.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15443.96346875,"end":15446.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15446.34284375,"end":15446.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15446.680343750002,"end":15462.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15462.964718750001,"end":15463.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15464.73659375,"end":15466.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15466.89659375,"end":15468.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15472.33034375,"end":15474.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15474.878468750001,"end":15507.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15508.054718750001,"end":15511.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15511.56471875,"end":15514.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15516.137843750003,"end":15517.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15517.52159375,"end":15518.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15518.26409375,"end":15524.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15524.28846875,"end":15527.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15528.92909375,"end":15533.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15534.126593750003,"end":15535.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15535.527218750001,"end":15545.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15545.11221875,"end":15551.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15551.676593750002,"end":15552.16596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1776.397,"end":1805.661,"text":"好請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數好現在開始開會請議事人宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年4月17日星期三九十一分至十三時十四分地點群仙樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福等14人列席委員林楚英等19人列席官員金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧"},{"start":1806.181,"end":1834.794,"text":"財政部部長莊翠雲、經濟部政務次長陳振祺等主席、郭昭吉委員國文、包思向因宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定而邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部行政院消費者保護處就如何改善我國融資公司因缺乏監管所衍生之社會亂象以穩定金融市場並保障消費者權益進行專題報告並被質詢另邀請內政部警政署、法務部列席備詢"},{"start":1836.014,"end":1863.572,"text":"請金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧、財政部部長莊翠盈、經濟部政務次長陳正琦、行政院消費者保護處處長鍾瑞蘭分別提出報告後,藉由委員林德甫等21人提出質詢。均經經濟部政務次長陳正琦等予以答覆。決定。一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢會及答覆或請補充資訊。請相關部會於一周內書面答覆。委員另要求期限者從即鎖定。三、委員陳廷飛、王定宇、邱志偉"},{"start":1864.372,"end":1868.838,"text":"所提書面質詢列入記錄看證公報並請相關部會以書面答覆宣傳筆在場我們為主法定人數議事錄暫不確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程"},{"start":1882.811,"end":1891.998,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管"},{"start":1899.344,"end":1919.567,"text":"預算凍結書面報告案11案四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。五、審查證券投資信託及顧問法3案。六、審查不動產證券化條例部份調研修正草案1案。宣傳完畢請在場各位委員對上次的議事錄有異議"},{"start":1921.36,"end":1946.728,"text":"好,無異議事錄確定接著我們原例介紹在場的委員與與會的政府官員首先我們介紹我們兩位資深的這個委員一位是林德福委員吳秉慧委員好,我們接著介紹在場的官員行政院財政主計金融處代理處長王淑端王處長"},{"start":1949.366,"end":1959.995,"text":"行政院主計總處主計長朱哲銘主計長中貴處李毅君處長公務預算處徐永毅處長基金預算處黃淑娟處長會計決算處許毅娟處長綜合統計處蔡玉泰處長國事普查處陳慧欣副處長"},{"start":1977.757,"end":1998.486,"text":"主計資訊處我們吳淑慧處長主計是我們詹英俊主任主計人員訓練中心張維銘執行長地方統計推展中心李嘉航執行長我們審計部有審計長陳瑞銘審計長第一廳廳長林汝林林廳長"},{"start":2006.024,"end":2034.161,"text":"副審是陳正雍陳主任資訊處邱團寶邱處長審計人員訓練委員會許哲元執密會計是王雪林主任台中審計處吳錦祥處長台南審計處陳山明處長高雄市審計處林建成處長我們金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧黃竹偉"},{"start":2036.021,"end":2062.882,"text":"政局局張振山局長保險局司瓊華局長銀行局林志吉副局長檢察局張子昊局長台灣證券交易所股份有限公司簡立中總經理吉寶股份有限公司陳德湘總經理"},{"start":2066.182,"end":2085.371,"text":"桂滿中興陳永成董事長李愛玲總經理財政部稅務署宋秀琳署長蘇三思張素貞副署長內政部何俊達專委"},{"start":2088.284,"end":2092.112,"text":"國土署王武聰組長經濟部商業署翁慶廷組長"},{"start":2096.676,"end":2118.861,"text":"法務部林鋒文三次以上請議事人宣讀報告事項有關於中華民國113年度中央政府總預算行政院主計總處主管預算解凍案書面報告15案第二預備金預算解凍案書面報告1案及審計部主管預算解凍案書面報告11案"},{"start":2122.779,"end":2146.679,"text":"處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。一、行政院主計總處決議一、凍結第一幕一般行政向下政府內部控制監督機制規劃及督導預算十分之一。二、行政院主計總處決議二、凍結第二幕中央總預算合編及執行預算十分之一。三、行政院主計總處決議三、凍結第二幕中央總預算合編及執行向下"},{"start":2147.119,"end":2165.669,"text":"一、中央總預算之合編與執行之業務費預算十分之一、四、行政院主計總處四、凍結第二幕中央總預算合編及執行向下、中央總預算之合編與執行預算的十分之一、五、行政院主計總處決議五、凍結第二幕中央總預算合編及執行向下、中央總預算之合編與執行中、業務費至一般事務費"},{"start":2166.81,"end":2185.32,"text":"預算20分之一6、行政院主計總處決議．6凍結第二幕．中央總預算合併及執行向下地方政府主計業務之督導與查核．預算20分之一7、行政院主計總處決議．7凍結第三幕．特總基金．預算合併及執行．預算10分之一8、行政院主計總處決議．10凍結第五幕．綜合統計業務向下．辦理綜合統計之業務．業務份預算50萬元9、決議十二．凍結第六幕．國事普查業務向下"},{"start":2196.616,"end":2213.163,"text":"辦理工業及服務業普查中業務費之委頒備預算十分之一10、決議十三、凍結第二幕、國事普查業務向下、受僱員工薪資調查及生產力統計之業務費預算十分之一11、決議十四、凍結第七幕、主計訓練業務預算十分之一12"},{"start":2215.521,"end":2233.675,"text":"決議十五凍結第八目主計資訊業務向下統計及行政資訊管理中業務費資資訊服務費預算十分之一13決議十六凍結第八目主計資訊業務向下資訊系統委員管理中業務費資資訊服務費預算十分之一14決議十七凍結第八目主計資資資訊業務向下經費結報及薪資資訊管理中業務費資資訊服務費預算十分之一15"},{"start":2240.58,"end":2249.446,"text":"決議十八、凍結第九目一般建築及設備第三屆其他設備向下設備及投資資訊軟硬體設備費預算十分之一。三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總決算決議．行政院主計總處檢送第二29款第二預備金決議一．凍結該款預算二十分之一。"},{"start":2261.173,"end":2275.052,"text":"書面報告案四、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總決算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。一、決議凍結第二目中央政府審計向下中央政府審計工作資業務費預算50萬元。二、審計"},{"start":2278.155,"end":2305.09,"text":"決議二、凍結第二幕、中央政府審計向下、中央政府審計工作中、業務費之教育訓練費預算50萬元。三、決議三、凍結第二幕、中央政府審計向下、中央政府審計工作中、業務費之資訊服務費預算十分之一。四、決議四、凍結第二幕、中央政府審計向下、中央政府審計工作中、業務費之資訊服務費預算50萬元。五、決議五、凍結第二幕、中央政府審計向下、中央政府審計工作預算20萬元。六、決議六、"},{"start":2306.711,"end":2328.508,"text":"凍結第二幕中央政府審計向下審計訓練預算十分之一。七、決議七凍結第三幕縣市地方審計向下縣市地方審計工作之業務費預算十分之一。八、決議八凍結第四幕一般建築及設備第二節其他設備向下審計業務電腦化系統更新中設備及投資之資訊軟硬體設備費預算十分之一。九、臺北市"},{"start":2329.721,"end":2334.366,"text":"台中市審計處決議．一凍結第二幕審計業務預算20分之一10台南市審計處決議．一凍結第二幕審計業務預算20分之一11高雄市審計處決議．一凍結第二幕審計業務預算20分之一宣傳筆"},{"start":2348.737,"end":2372.805,"text":"請問各位委員針對以上預算解凍案書面報告有無異議?無異議書面報告完成均準與動之提報院會那書面報告完成的相關單位那個可以先行離席包括審計部還有行政院的這個王大理處長"},{"start":2378.151,"end":2404.208,"text":"好,接著我們請議事人宣讀今日議程之討論事項。討論事項一、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。一、決議八、凍結第四目、會計及決算業務預算十分之一。二、決議九、凍結第五目、綜合統計業務預算十分之一。三、決議十一、凍結第六目、國事普查業務預算十分之一。"},{"start":2405.339,"end":2430.861,"text":"二、審查證券投資信託及顧問法3案一、行政環境審議本院委員郭國文等16人擬拒證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案等二案二、本院委員林楚英等17人擬拒證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案三、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬拒不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案。選到完畢"},{"start":2438.945,"end":2458.774,"text":"七、議程安排審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算行政院主計總處主管預算解凍案書面報告3案。繼行政院含情審議、政卷投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案等3案。委員郭國文等16人擬拒不動產政卷化條例部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":2459.574,"end":2476.367,"text":"其中法案部分將先請提案委員說明提案要旨後再請金融監督管理委員會黃祖樂委員報告並回應委員提案內容最後請行政院主計總處朱主計長就預算解凍案進行報告請郭國文委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":2482.525,"end":2511.198,"text":"謝謝主席在場委員以及所有的官員本席這一次的提案包括不動產證券化條例部分條文修正案及投信投顧法部分條文修正案主要是因應主管機關將現行的不動產證券化的改採為雙軌制除了現行的信託型的REIT之外增加了基金型的REIT開放不動產投資信託公司可以募集不動產的信託基金"},{"start":2511.878,"end":2528.29,"text":"理論上這應該是在一部專法裡頭來處理完成那也就是在不動產證券化條例當中一併來規範但主管機關選擇在投信投估法來規範除了顯示增加基金型之外制度內涵變動並不大"},{"start":2529.651,"end":2558.279,"text":"但是為了遷就修法的架構所以本席針對兩部法案都提出修正避免制度上的衝突本席修法的意旨除了活絡不動產、證券化的市場外也希望擴大投資範圍讓資金能夠進入公共建設避免油資過多的問題因此我的版本放寬了不動產的定義依照民法傳統的定義沒有額外的條件讓各種形態的公共建設或促餐的模式都盡可能的能夠成為投資標的"},{"start":2559.199,"end":2586.176,"text":"另外不採用過去以來沿用的開發型不動產的分類因為實際上只是興建的過程應用分類反而造成混淆當然投資心中的不動產風險相對高也授權主管機關可以訂定條件限制及其投資的比例相對於院版直接明定比例的做法相對比較有開放與彈性其實院版在投資開發型不動產採證面表列方式只有督根"},{"start":2586.956,"end":2605.983,"text":"與公共建設不但限制過嚴也與實務不符不但在最需要資金投入的階段不能參與甚至在限制不得投資政府及關股參與的標的美其名是避免道德風險但這樣限制上與我國現狀不符而且有因非業實之可能"},{"start":2606.283,"end":2625.979,"text":"不應該因為擔心可能出現弊端就全面性的禁止而應該想辦法防堵弊端所以我在這兩個方案當中都參數相關的限制授權主管機關自行訂定執法這樣主管機關可以針對不同類型的規定不同的條件來進行投資的比重"},{"start":2626.819,"end":2655.436,"text":"當然如果主管機關認為這次的修法只是保守修法只是要開放雙軌並沒有意識大幅度的改善現行的問題那麼我們就逐條討論的時候再討論看看如何獲取共識但也請主管機關思考一下修法的目的以及修法是不是有助於活動現在的市場現在上市的REIT只有6檔而每天只有100多萬的成交量跟台股每天5000億的成交量"},{"start":2656.096,"end":2657.858,"text":"第二位我們請林篤英委員說明提案要旨。"},{"start":2684.694,"end":2706.281,"text":"謝謝主席。感謝莊委、郭國文委員、排審今天有本席與17位立法同仁所擬定的政卷投資信託及顧問法第一條跟第二條、第三條之一的修正草案。我想這樣的案子如果顧名思義,事實上很多人會不知道到底這個方向、修法的方向重點是什麼。"},{"start":2707.301,"end":2709.623,"text":"其實不動產的投資金額是非常龐大的並非一般小資散戶能夠輕易投資的標的但是如果透過不動產證券化的過程分為小單位有價證券就可以讓投資人有機會以較小的金額參與不動產市場那麼我國不動產證券化條例是在2003年"},{"start":2729.38,"end":2751.805,"text":"指定的到現在也超過了20年目前市場上信託型的REIT其實只有7檔規模大概只有1000億左右相較於美國的45兆日本的4兆新加坡的2.5兆的規模其實有很大的提升空間而鄰近的亞洲國家像是香港、新加坡、日本"},{"start":2752.165,"end":2752.766,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":2770.427,"end":2793.356,"text":"及基金規模小、流動性差所以很難受到投資人跟市場上面的青睞所以本席特別提案參酌國外不動產投資信託制度新增不正產投資信託業務以促進資產管理服務市場之多元化的發展為目標在投資標的上也希望將公共建設等基礎設施納入投資標的"},{"start":2797.042,"end":2813.56,"text":"以促進基礎建設及產業升級為目標同時又能活絡我國的金融市場但是為了避免國人所擔憂的就是不動產投資信託基金用於投資居住也就是我們一般所擔心的"},{"start":2814.201,"end":2833.759,"text":"用於投資在我們民眾的住宅當中會造成房價不合理的上漲影響國民的居住權所以在本席的提案當中也特別標明了那就是不得為住宅法第三條第一款所規定之居住的住宅這是不能作為投資使用的"},{"start":2834.099,"end":2861.621,"text":"其實在過去4年當中在上一屆的財政委員會這個案子就已經在討論當中金管會也來多次的到國外來考察取經因此今天能夠排審這個法案我也希望在520之前其實有機會在接下來的內閣上台之前我們其實可以把這個活絡金融市場的一個好的正向的法案能夠今天緊速的修法通過謝謝"},{"start":2866.651,"end":2871.959,"text":"謝謝林委員的說明接下來請金管會黃主委報告並回應委員提案內容"},{"start":2880.27,"end":2903.044,"text":"主席、各位委員、先進、大家好。今天貴委會審議,行政院函請審議郭委員、郭文等16人拟據《證券投資信託及顧問法》部分條文修正草案第二條。林委員、楚英等17人拟據《證券投資信託及顧問法》第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案。"},{"start":2904.345,"end":2924.463,"text":"國務委員國文等16人擬具不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案等案曾國務委員邀請提出報告以下緊就行政院含情審議的修正草案的擬定背景目的重點效益及本會對各位委員所提版本的意見報告如下"},{"start":2928.62,"end":2942.682,"text":"修正草案的擬定背景這個案子頭信頭顧法歷經五次修正並沒有重大的改變但是這次是為了要活絡臺灣的不動產政治化市場"},{"start":2943.723,"end":2960.195,"text":"案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案10、處理中華民"},{"start":2971.892,"end":2985.956,"text":"很重點是不得投資供居住使用的住宅避免對房價造成影響並與現行依不動產正規化條例由受託機構發行的不動產投資信託基金制度並行才雙軌制運行。"},{"start":2990.831,"end":2994.112,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesi,"},{"start":3017.654,"end":3041.605,"text":"有關受益人或投資人權益的罰款金額由300萬提高到1500萬。以下報告修正重點有修正三、四條,新增八條。第一個是訂定了不動產投資信託事業的設立條件。這個不動產投資信託事業是可以對於REIT進行專業的積極管理。"},{"start":3044.966,"end":3067.722,"text":"以往的信託型是透過在委託這個不動產公司來代為管理但是不動產投資信託是直接用專業的不動產投資的管理人員直接去管理它這是最重要的差別第二個就是專業不動產投資信託是因為有專業的股東參與那麼所用的股份不得少於發行股份的50"},{"start":3070.424,"end":3074.946,"text":"第三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關金預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":3093.973,"end":3105.459,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":3121.824,"end":3142.634,"text":"這是第一點第二點就是這個不動產必須不是來短期的買賣必須要長期持有並且獲取穩定的收益而且呃陳儒剛才有幾位委員有提到了我們明定不得投資住宅那不要影響到或者被歸類影響到房價"},{"start":3144.639,"end":3163.894,"text":"第三、參照國外體力。我們也允許在一定程序條件之下同意關係交易。比如說基金跟他的股東或是他的集團之間的人做一些不動產的買跟賣,但是必須要有相關嚴謹的程序。"},{"start":3165.376,"end":3173.425,"text":"第四、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結"},{"start":3186.755,"end":3190.258,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲此可提供民眾參與投資這些大型商辦大樓基礎建設的機會"},{"start":3205.45,"end":3223.313,"text":"那以前前述這些大型的不動產的標的大概都是少數企業集團或是專業投資機構才有能力投資那把它政見化之後切割之後讓一般民眾也可以去參與投資也增加國人投資的管道"},{"start":3225.56,"end":3240.759,"text":"第8頁他可以創造新的就業機會那更重要的就是以往信託型的因為他是信託業本身另外他在委託另外一個不動產專業管理機構去管理比如說建金公司在運用跟效率上"},{"start":3241.34,"end":3243.722,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計"},{"start":3264.03,"end":3270.81,"text":"至於說郭昭偉等16人所凝聚的正頭性口庫法部分條文修正案"},{"start":3272.711,"end":3300.541,"text":"那我們跟行政院提案的版本比較有一些差異比方說放寬不動產中土地定著物跟所附設施的定義放寬相關有價證據的定義刪除基金架構為此一定比率投資穩定收入的這方面的規定等等因為時間有限我就不贅述那我想委員的建議版本跟行政院的這個差異大概"},{"start":3302.221,"end":3322.029,"text":"案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案10、處理中華民"},{"start":3328.804,"end":3353.109,"text":"眾上來講我們認為委員建議的版本跟行政院提案的版本的差異或涉及基金架構為主要投資的核心性質等規範我們覺得委員的提案利益甚佳不過從我們原來規範的條文來看我們建議是不是還是審慎評估或者說等到主條討論的時候大家再繼續交換意見"},{"start":3355.37,"end":3363.624,"text":"那這是我想是不是目前還是能夠冒昧的建議是不是還是以行政院的送立法院修正的草案來辦理"},{"start":3366.497,"end":3393.169,"text":"至於林委員、楚瑩等彌具相關的限制未得投資住宅的條文這跟目前行政院提案的版本相同我們尊重委員提案的意見第15頁有關郭委員、郭文等彌具的不動產政經化條例部分條文修正草案因為這邊的不動產政經化條例提的修正案子大體上跟"},{"start":3394.469,"end":3412.631,"text":"前面的這個目前的投信投估法新增的不動產投資信託召委所建議的內容大體都類似所以我們建議是不是可以等到這個主條討論的時候再逐步跟委員請示"},{"start":3413.952,"end":3437.566,"text":"目前來講我們是不是可以很冒昧的建議還是可以先依相關的現在的規定跟投信投顧法草案的規定來處理是否有當到等逐條討論的時候大家可以再交換意見那結與我想這次的修訂可以提升類似管理跟運用的效率協助產業投資跟發展等等"},{"start":3438.908,"end":3457.731,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":3465.973,"end":3482.225,"text":"那麼是否而且可以增進資本市場的發展有深遠的注意所以再次有恭請各位委員能夠會議指教跟支持以上報告謝謝好謝謝黃田副主委接著我們請行政院主計總處朱主席長就預算解凍案進行報告"},{"start":3492.099,"end":3495.183,"text":"主席、國務委員、議事先生、大院審議"},{"start":3496.713,"end":3525.612,"text":"行政院主計總書113年度單位預算所作凍結決議僅向大院提出凍結報告進行支持。第一個是有關於會計決算業務編列420萬2千元的凍結預算十分之一那跟各位委員報告一下那個是本總書為了各機關的預算的核實編列每年都有編列這個是預算編列的"},{"start":3526.873,"end":3554.882,"text":"原則而且會有一些注意辦理事項有一些編制辦法而且也有附屬單位應行注意事項另外一個在執行的時候本總署會協同國發會以及這個公共工程委員會督促過機關預算的執行而且會有一些落後的話我們也會提醒各部會要去執行而且找出它的原因在哪裡"},{"start":3555.282,"end":3560.806,"text":"案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":3574.536,"end":3580.741,"text":"第二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關中華統計業務113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關中華統計業務113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關中華統計業務113年度"},{"start":3589.167,"end":3614.575,"text":"大院報告的是說那這個是怎麼樣我們每年都有辦家庭所得分配的一個資料是透過實地訪查而且用功勞、榮保以及國保、健保等資料編制我國的一些家庭收支資料另外一個我們的家庭財富分配的資料我們大概會在這個月的月底對外一個分布"},{"start":3615.295,"end":3629.789,"text":"對外一個花布另外一個有關於國事普查業務有編列9,899萬2千元是因為辦理農林榆木業普查工商業服務的普查國戶統計社會員工薪資調查及生產力統計凍結十分之一的話那我們"},{"start":3636.735,"end":3643.839,"text":"案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":3665.99,"end":3671.417,"text":"案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":3683.653,"end":3700.364,"text":"總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面"},{"start":3703.866,"end":3704.166,"text":"憲政委員會主席"},{"start":3734.073,"end":3761.342,"text":"好,謝謝朱主席長的報告接下來我們進行開始詢答先做以下的宣告每位出席委員花費時間為8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間為5分鐘今日上午10點截止發言登記本次會議委員若有相關的修正動議現在依根據順序請第一位林德福委員質詢"},{"start":3765.097,"end":3765.797,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請那個金管會的黃竺偉有請黃竺偉"},{"start":3785.651,"end":3805.747,"text":"主委你好我請教因為媒體報導去年一再傳出投信基金經理人跟擔的問題讓金管會警覺目前的事前事後的這些預防以及這個交易監控管理機制以不夠發聲嚇阻的作用"},{"start":3807.228,"end":3821.906,"text":"那決定來修法那我請問主委你認為投信基金經理人出現跟單的問題到底是個案人模不章的問題還是投信公司本身公司治理出了重大的狀況"},{"start":3823.626,"end":3826.167,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面"},{"start":3848.876,"end":3868.746,"text":"是不是重災我不敢講但是這種行為是不可取的不可取齁那個主委我再請教齁因為金成銀跟中信金談合併併購的金額至少有500億以上那金管會有沒有掌握這樣的一個消息"},{"start":3870.049,"end":3870.289,"text":"那你們的態度呢?"},{"start":3884.588,"end":3885.169,"text":"我請主席記者"},{"start":3915.779,"end":3945.099,"text":"主計長我請教因為央行總裁上個月說假如長期通膨平均漲幅到1.5%甚至於1.5%至2%很顯然就是通膨出現結構性的轉變那利率恐怕就不會像以前那麼低檔那我請問主計長假如通膨真的出現結構性的轉變你認為民眾在生活上面臨有哪些衝擊呢"},{"start":3947.38,"end":3951.441,"text":"通膨出現結構性轉變的實質環境是不是從CPI變化可以推估啊?"},{"start":3973.491,"end":4000.6,"text":"欸那個CPI是一個市場現象很難做推估我們只能夠說他所做的結構現象是有些像服務業阿他的薪水一上去以後就比較不大可能下來所以說還是要參考他因為成本面的因素的影響對是要參考其他因素才能夠充分的判斷是不是對對對因為有市場的那個像像我某些容易受到那個災損阿或國際因素的影響的像油價之類的"},{"start":4003.041,"end":4025.753,"text":"因為媒體報導齁主計總處總和統計處處長蔡玉泰表示長期CPI年增率會比過去高如果是相對穩定的狀態也是正面那如果每年1%或2%的增幅反映某種程度的需求有力量那企業就會這個調薪"},{"start":4028.835,"end":4029.615,"text":"案2案3案4案5案6案7案8案9案10案11"},{"start":4049.925,"end":4065.258,"text":"啊如果是相對穩定的態度也是正面的說法請問主計長你認同嗎我非常的認同因為他上去以後啊那個薪資的結構也跟著上去你硬要把他壓下來啊很可能會通貨緊縮"},{"start":4066.519,"end":4092.047,"text":"好 那我請問你這種說法到底是呈現什麼必要的條件才是蔡處長所表達的相對穩定的狀態才是所謂的正面一個物價因為某些的一個衝擊它就像那個水平面的水一樣上去它上去以後將來是一個穩定的一個變化這一個是一個健康的現象好 那個主計長"},{"start":4092.987,"end":4115.845,"text":"按照媒體報導蔡處長的說法CPI的廉增率是反映某種程度需求有力量那企業有機會來調薪那員工就有人力來消費長期來看是正面的反之啊倒過來如果硬要壓低CPI員工就不能加薪民眾不敢消費反而是惡性的循環那我請問主計長"},{"start":4117.486,"end":4124.929,"text":"就你的了解,年度民間企業調薪的主要參考依據是CPI嗎?所以說是不是只有公務員調薪才以CPI作為標準,是不是這樣子?"},{"start":4141.656,"end":4152.103,"text":"公務員的調薪他只是一個指標因為公務人員的這個只有大概這個五六十萬人那我們全國的那個勞工是有大概近千萬人"},{"start":4153.339,"end":4168.033,"text":"那請問主計長如果CPI年增率2%企業調薪也是年增超過2%以上那麼或許長期來看是正面的那問題是這樣的一個調薪規模請問這個主計長你認為是現實生活中這個企業調薪的常態嗎"},{"start":4178.143,"end":4206.551,"text":"你跟那個委員報告一下薪資的調整應該也要看他的一個生產力的情況就是說他所謂就是勞工他所生產物品的一個價值啦就是他附加價值的提高他附加價值提高的話那勞工的薪資啊應該給他適當的報酬這樣子才有一個誘因那如果要是常態那長期來看當然是正面反之啊如果後毛領角的企業調薪生態"},{"start":4209.012,"end":4218.743,"text":"請問不壓低CPI難道是要讓這些山稻猴子的個案增加轉化成多數民眾的通案嗎?你認為呢?那個是"},{"start":4221.137,"end":4245.534,"text":"我們的統計是一般來講薪資都是一個往上的一個趨勢雖然最近的實質薪資並沒有說是有那麼多可是長期我們的薪資是一個往上的趨勢那更何況在貧富差距極端的環境光壓低CPI真的能夠緩和民眾生活"},{"start":4246.927,"end":4246.947,"text":"福祉長"},{"start":4272.356,"end":4292.892,"text":"我請問媒體報導台鐵公司公司化以後首次招募放榜但入取人卻不如預期有民眾認為最低起薪只有3.33萬條件實在是很難以吸引人所以說台鐵產業工會則建議台鐵在相關證照和"},{"start":4302.493,"end":4306.239,"text":"這個加擠和津貼上應該要有所提升那我請問主計長"},{"start":4308.287,"end":4332.615,"text":"這個台鐵招考新聞報導你有關注過嗎因為台鐵它已經公司化它應該是由公司的董事會來做一個考量公司化對我們只是看它有沒有違法的連這個國營事業的台鐵薪資結構都沒有辦法跟上時代那請問這難道不是政府帶頭"},{"start":4334.736,"end":4355.032,"text":"用低薪再用人嗎?對,國營事業的條薪他有他們的一定的一個規定而且我剛才講到董事會也會做一個考量他們已經公式化了他們應該是會做適當的一個調印雖然公式化但如果真的是政府"},{"start":4355.552,"end":4357.654,"text":"案2案3案4案5案6案7案8"},{"start":4371.806,"end":4383.903,"text":"政府機構的一個帶頭是指公務人員的一個條型對於說國營事業要不要跟進那個是由他們公司治理來內部來決定所以說以整體來看處計長其實你看"},{"start":4387.828,"end":4415.866,"text":"每一年政府只要調薪以後其實一般民間的企業他不一定會跟著調對不對而且很多這些外面的這些物價反而是藉著因為公務人員的調薪又把物價調上來反而造成講實在話這個調薪以後有一些正面當然也有很多的負面反而讓很多民眾沒有調薪的他們的痛苦指數繼續飆高"},{"start":4418.694,"end":4421.777,"text":"我想這一點主計處應該要去關注,謝謝。"},{"start":4450.683,"end":4470.016,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會黃主委有請黃主委市委員長主委早今天要跟你請教的是我的服務團隊最近接到好幾件的案件都是"},{"start":4471.366,"end":4499.185,"text":"舉行法院來強制執行強制保險保單的解約保單剩餘的殘值收走這樣子的案例當然就站在執行法院的角度但是執行這個執行名義這是債權債務的關係這是了解當然還包括國稅單位稅務單位行政執行署執行也有這樣的狀況但是"},{"start":4502.37,"end":4518.727,"text":"這裡面其實有很多地方是可以探討的因為我們的法律裡面關於勞工保險條例29條還有勞動基準法的第58條都有規定一些關於勞工的權益退休金不得強制執行等等這些事項那個的目的"},{"start":4519.748,"end":4521.949,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。cellence"},{"start":4535.602,"end":4559.949,"text":"這個當然不一樣因為這是為了從法律的立法本質來講它是為了保障勞工的權益不過我剛剛跟你提到這個強制執行保單的強制解除取得保單的剩餘價值這個某一個程度上面跟我剛剛講的要保障民眾的基本生活跟穩定社會安定"},{"start":4561.523,"end":4574.305,"text":"這個目標是違背的只是一個是勞工一個不是勞工這樣的差別而已那行政執行署有曾經講過當然這是執行法院講的"},{"start":4576.803,"end":4593.357,"text":"他們在執行的時候應該要去注意到讓債務人有陳述有表達意見的機會可是我連續接到幾件都是被通知解約了連保險公司都沒有告知保險人就解約了就收走了"},{"start":4594.244,"end":4616.266,"text":"你知道嗎?人壽保險的主契約解除齁?他赴約有一些關於健康的關於醫療的那主約不存在你的赴約當然就跟著消滅了嘛那最後連這個他要保命啊要維持基本的這個醫療往往都會出現問題欸"},{"start":4617.802,"end":4635.35,"text":"所以是不是要要求保險公司收到這樣的執行至少要立刻通知這個邀保人讓邀保人有機會跟債權人再進行最後的這個協商呢然後甚至他有機會可以向執行法院提出異議"},{"start":4636.954,"end":4642.915,"text":"我非常認同其實保險是社會安全網很重要一環那您關切的這個程序面我們有要求我是不是可以請局長再跟您報告受益人介入權的問題"},{"start":4662.761,"end":4679.067,"text":"跟有人報告這個議題其實我們在之前也曾經評估過要是不是要做修法的處理但是各界都有不同的看法後來我們也要求保險公司收到法院的這個執行命令的時候要通知"},{"start":4679.767,"end":4698.822,"text":"保護來讓他能夠去主張他的權利這個部分我們當初有要求那這個要求有沒有落實呢因為我今天我這一個議會連續收到兩個陳情案件他都主張他沒有保險公司沒有通知我們可能來了解一下因為事實上我是有看到人家送給我的保險公司的通知那"},{"start":4700.943,"end":4727.892,"text":"實際執行面我們會再來看看怎麼來解決那另外主覆約的部分我們也在之前大概7月1號會生效就是要求保險公司是不是能夠未來設計商品的覆約的部分能夠有覆約原系條款也就是主約被解除的時候覆約只要繳費還讓它繼續存在那這樣就可以解決它覆約因為主約被強制覆約這能夠完成的可能性高嗎"},{"start":4729.433,"end":4750.254,"text":"這一個部分因為我們法規已經修了未來業者就要朝這方向去做那這樣覆約的那個所要繳的這個費用顯然會提高啊因為你覆約本來是主約之下附屬所以他的主要的繳費是在主約嘛覆約是要附帶得到附屬得到的利益嘛那你現在主約被解除之後沒有我的意思是說你本來主約繳了之後你覆約得到的利益"},{"start":4751.135,"end":4753.216,"text":"按照原來的保費收取並沒有再增加費用。"},{"start":4771.567,"end":4774.909,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":4797.521,"end":4817.23,"text":"指定法院是有執行名義,但是被執行的對象也好,對程序如果有意見的話,他可以提取這個程序的意義之數,強制執行還有意義之數,程序還有意義之數,所以你也要讓人家有這樣的機會,如果沒有收到通知就被解除了,他連去提意義之數的機會都不存在了。"},{"start":4818.15,"end":4829.383,"text":"這個我覺得也是有點問題我們來要求啦因為我們確實一開始就有要求保險公司要通知保護讓他能夠提出主張好謝謝你先"},{"start":4834.152,"end":4849.106,"text":"關於今天這個REITs的這個議題當然多開一個投資的管道台灣的油資現在其實蠻多啦如果有多一個穩定的投資管道風險又比較小的話樂觀其成"},{"start":4850.467,"end":4872.749,"text":"可是通常就是風險小就代表利潤低這個一定要廣為宣傳不然你想想看現在的股市因為現在股市是變動很快現在什麼高股息的ETF什麼這些ETF現在這麼紅的原因是因為他們相信說那個股分配回來的利益是比較高"},{"start":4873.59,"end":4896.618,"text":"那你瑞士在怎麼做?像你現在的保險公司投資這個商用不動產,如果他要去併購這個商用不動產的時候,現在的起碼的標準基準是多少?好像兩年期儲蓄存款的加0.25吧,是,那個市局長,應該是這樣子吧目前是多少?現在數字我們算,那個,應該差不多,因為"},{"start":4899.503,"end":4904.744,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesle銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行銀行"},{"start":4926.684,"end":4928.766,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":4939.898,"end":4941.439,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":4961.5,"end":4990.382,"text":"這個我是覺得對於觀感民眾的觀感不見得會好那你知道嗎今天聽到不好的消息美國不但升息不但降息可能延後還有可能會升息因為最近伊朗跟以色列這個衝突以色列要怎麼報復大家都還在看還在猜所以引起兩個因素第一個地緣衝突的延續有使得美國的美聯儲的利率不僅沒有降有可能還會再升"},{"start":4992.534,"end":4995.156,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":5016.093,"end":5026.631,"text":"提高之後更沒有辦法所以你雖然本來有一個投資的管道可以投資商用不動產他在台灣投資商用不動產的管道等於是急序萎縮"},{"start":5028.462,"end":5053.711,"text":"那你這個瑞士有沒有辦法在這裡面想個兩全其美的方法因為這麼多的資金如果你不讓他台灣增加他的投資他跑到外國去跑到美國去他又要增加那個匯累的風險你出去的那個資金的成本就非常的高啊因為你光是要避險去年一年避險就3700億"},{"start":5055.882,"end":5057.063,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":5076.099,"end":5077.56,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":5097.929,"end":5099.25,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":5127.008,"end":5130.63,"text":"好,謝謝吳秉仁委員的諮詢。接著我們請賴世保委員諮詢。謝謝主席及各位先進。有請金管委員的黃主委。有請黃主委。委員長。"},{"start":5156.908,"end":5176.985,"text":"我們今天談到我們今天主要題目談這個頭顧頭型頭顧的相關的管理規範那我們看到這個題目我問過一次但是還沒有給我答案所以我再問一次就是在4月1號有個網紅節目"},{"start":5180.868,"end":5185.029,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":5208.335,"end":5209.18,"text":"是不是已經移送檢方了是不是?"},{"start":5211.438,"end":5237.797,"text":"跟委員報告這件事情我們交易所有做一個這個檢要的分析報告那這個報告目前我們有提供給主管機關參考那另外也跟這個檢調那邊有在聯繫但是目前的進度是就這個相關的內容還做進一步的這個分析當中"},{"start":5239.307,"end":5265.58,"text":"還沒有正式移送進調。我們還沒有到正式移送的這個地步。好,過來呢,要不要表示一下意見。這個部分我們跟交易所是共同作業,我們每天都有分工。好,我請教黃主委或者張局長,你們看來會來回答這個。就是從4月1號到現在,今天4月18號,"},{"start":5268.154,"end":5279.09,"text":"照理講這個事情已經很清楚了啊是不是到底是圓的扁的那個交易所總經理要不要再講一次你剛才你剛說你跟檢調講的講什麼講什麼你們的分析結果是什麼"},{"start":5284.56,"end":5286.362,"text":"那你們認為他是故意的還是開玩笑的?"},{"start":5306.85,"end":5328.262,"text":"我想他是有這個意思的消息放出來但是是不是有符合這個政交法155條有意的就很嚴重喔有意的就是違反政交法155條意圖影響市場行情就是操作市場喔"},{"start":5329.393,"end":5346.36,"text":"是那個委員那按照我們交易所按照資料去做分析結果我們現在不曉得你還不曉得你一手資料都不曉得怎麼辦呢已經快三個禮拜了兩個多禮拜了還不曉得啦"},{"start":5347.506,"end":5374.513,"text":"還要多久才曉得上一次我問的時候你就說這個在一個禮拜以內就有結果結果一個禮拜還是沒結果啊跟向委員報告我們有分析資料確實有分析資料但是分析資料的結果呢提供給主管機關然後檢調到時候如果跟我們要我們也會提供給檢調做參考所以檢調還沒有跟你們要有來跟我們接洽但是案子還沒有正式移過去"},{"start":5376.483,"end":5390.184,"text":"局長要不要講一下我還是主委局長講一下根本報告這個部分因為最後的判定是由檢方這邊到底有沒有立案但是我們是提供資料現在會請教育所繼續看他要什麼資料我們來support他們"},{"start":5391.465,"end":5391.985,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":5422.946,"end":5429.701,"text":"現在資料你到現在為止等於我聽了老半天人家說這次資料都還沒有出來是這樣子嗎"},{"start":5432.218,"end":5453.509,"text":"有出來資料有出來那向委員報告我們交易所這邊有的就是資料我們只能做資料的分析分析結果勒你不能講分析資料有就是有送那如果是有一些還有賴檢調去調查說對檢方去判定他到底是不是有意圖是不是有這樣子的一個犯罪行為"},{"start":5454.755,"end":5462.865,"text":"我怎麼感覺聽起來你好像想嗨你什麼事情啊想要隱瞞什麼事情不讓我們知道啊你來國會這裡要講實話勒要知目不言言如不信對不對"},{"start":5469.394,"end":5471.195,"text":"拜託你沒有回答問題嗎?你不能承諾未來類似這樣的案子三個禮拜以內一定可以做一個決定,可以嗎?"},{"start":5490.882,"end":5518.448,"text":"要不要移送剛才在講說其實資料提供是沒有問題但是要判定他那個要檢方大家認為不是你們判定對好嘛你們幾位請回喔這個主委先留下來喔我看到今天的主計總處提供的資料喔有個資料我很有興趣看喔叫金融監理管理基金喔"},{"start":5521.865,"end":5524.57,"text":"齁,這個主計總書面整理的很詳細啊。齁,黨名都超收耶。"},{"start":5531.075,"end":5556.7,"text":"就是你這個啊就是那個2%對吧金融業稅那個2%給你們這個金融的金融監督管理基金執運金融業的退場處理計畫每年都超收每年都超收這池子滿不得了請問主委你知不知道這個池子有多少錢現在這個看到你看111年度就超收了"},{"start":5559.181,"end":5562.124,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":5591.076,"end":5614.853,"text":"稅法到今年年底就不再撥入了那這些錢就是一個大池子主委啊報告委員其實是因為我知道因為我還要問主計長所以給我一點時間喔你不會講到對沒各位我知道是什麼我是國務院長我都知道喔這個來講主委我現在告訴你現在有一個DV嘛"},{"start":5616.175,"end":5624.377,"text":"就是啊這個錢根本用不到但是一直累積累積累積兩三千億的所以照理講這兩趴就可以不要收了主委同意嗎這就是現在大家討論那個營業稅到人體之後可是你兩趴不收的話那給人家感覺就是啊銀行業請問銀行業今年去年是不是很賺錢有銀行賺的是第三高還是四高吧有過賺錢的賺錢啦"},{"start":5646.121,"end":5650.623,"text":"是不是每年賺結果你還給他減2%這個也沒有道理所以我覺得5%繼續課那個2%就給國家可以嗎?可以嗎?可以嗎?這個由我現在這個過程我不太適合表示特別的意見"},{"start":5665.882,"end":5678.727,"text":"告訢不告訢嗎?報告委員我們會就整體金融業跟國際間的競爭力做一個審慎的評估。今天我講一個理由都不是理由啦!他賺這麼多錢!對不對?這個2%你就不要給他減啦!這2%就歸國庫啦!照樣課5%!這是個做法!是不是?兩位不好意思講我來講。"},{"start":5689.091,"end":5712.103,"text":"這個才是正辦啊你可以看嘛用不到而且他拼命賺錢啊還要給他減2%沒有道理這個道理不存在我不買單好不好國際圈的金融機構沒有像我們這樣課金融營業稅的啦跟委員會你這樣講要學你啦這個東西很多事情在台灣都不一樣了啦所以你要是要講金融業講一下話請主主席上來主主席上來"},{"start":5721.035,"end":5723.637,"text":"委員吖 處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":5735.768,"end":5756.36,"text":"我說你確定離開主計總的位置啊我是要希望這樣的做可是目前那個相關的啊接派的人都來了啊都已經沒有都沒有沒有發布來那個人播出了下來害得我的每一個人都問我說是不是要滾了對不對"},{"start":5760.421,"end":5783.442,"text":"主席長,我今天一定要問你就是因為我知道以後是見你一次少一次啊。你知道我意思嗎?見你一次少一次啊。少一次是這裡的機會啊。對嘛。見你一次少一次。我希望了。也很懷念朱正民在這日子啊。我也很懷念立委。"},{"start":5787.598,"end":5807.613,"text":"對,我很懷念你,對你懷念每個25塊錢的,你講價格變動都說錯,變動說錯,歐盟說錯的事情好不好,這個主席長我跟你講一個具體的東西了齁你們1月份公佈了,哇,大家好興奮喔說1月份的平均薪資8萬5啊"},{"start":5810.487,"end":5820.787,"text":"那個是因為有年終獎金所以是總薪資如果是經常薪資沒有啦委員你又忘記了"},{"start":5822.662,"end":5843.132,"text":"那個經常性薪資還是4萬多啦4萬多對嘛我在跟你講這個而且那個而且實質薪資是複多喔複多一點你是去年來是副局長高度還在相信這種資料不要相信對不對欸你的發布你發布資料不要相信我是總薪資我是總薪資你在這邊有講嘛是總薪資"},{"start":5846.775,"end":5860.813,"text":"總薪資嘛不是經常性薪資經常性薪資還是一樣多嘛所以說叫我不要相信這個數字就對了你發布的數字叫我不要相信我們每年都有總薪資跟那個經常性薪資這個是大院的要求"},{"start":5863.124,"end":5887.717,"text":"主席長,這個你都要走了齁,這個讓你開一下沒有關係啦齁。沒有沒有,我很高興你問,謝謝。沒有沒有沒有,我還沒讓你走齁。時間沒到,你不要急啦,你不要急啦。這個主席,感謝主席讓我多講幾十秒齁。這個,你總是會有一些心理的,你主席長做很久的,八年都是你做的對不對。對啊。"},{"start":5889.045,"end":5906.972,"text":"對阿這樣的政府官沒有幾個阿算一算就一個喔叫朱哲銘沒有前面十四門也是阿對阿我是說在蔡政府的官員裡面可以做八年的政府官只有你一個啦還有還有原民會主委一將對不對我們兩個相依為命對不對哪一個哪一個哪一個"},{"start":5908.217,"end":5911.3,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":5935.199,"end":5937.521,"text":"我不要第二春了我已經有一春就不要二春了"},{"start":5957.76,"end":5958.12,"text":"謝謝賴思寶委員的質詢"},{"start":5987.236,"end":5993.281,"text":"現在為我們請郭國文召委來咨詢請。謝謝主席,有請黃天牧主委跟司法局長。張局長請,不是,梁局長請。"},{"start":6007.879,"end":6030.714,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。 bicy 主委好,我想先就教於那個施局長好了,因為剛剛那個吳秉瑞委員其實有討論到昨天我們討論了有關於這個借入權的部分。借入權的部分確實我本身也接到好幾個案子,特別是最近。那剛剛你有提到說有關於這個復規的受益人的部分,他可以透過這個保險公司來"},{"start":6032.555,"end":6046.34,"text":"審計中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結"},{"start":6055.99,"end":6076.222,"text":"跟委員報告剛提到的不是受益人的部分而是原來的這個保險契約它本來就存在在保險公司嘛那是主互約可是行政法院可能來執行的時候呢它執行的主約那因為我們的商品裡面主互約有一些是"},{"start":6077.622,"end":6078.623,"text":"規定中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":6095.535,"end":6124.885,"text":"只要修辦法就可以了修辦法就可以,已經修了嗎?對,我們已經修了那現在如果所有的案子狀況的話就應該可以進行這樣的凍結我們已經鼓勵我們保險公司讓他的客戶能夠加一個保險公司已經把這個債權轉賣出去的情況底下這個保險公司沒有轉賣他的保單啦應該是有很多債權人去法院主張來扣押保單這種情況是適用的就是了嗎?是是是那現在已經可以行使介入權了啦"},{"start":6125.445,"end":6139.921,"text":"借入權那個部分是我們把主婦約分開那借入權的部分指的是受益人基於他的利益他願意帶藥保人來處理這個債務至少目前有解"},{"start":6142.864,"end":6165.216,"text":"那個部分我們正在討論跟研議,那個可能要修法。我在就教於主委跟張局長。主委,到昨天為止4月17日日時的交易量還是非常的冷。整個交易量不過是100多萬,甚至有土銀、富邦土銀、國泰,這個成交金是零。"},{"start":6167.356,"end":6193.153,"text":"總共目前的六檔當中而且去年9月還有要申請通過的新曆一號經過半年的募資之後只募到不到40億未達50億就又被撤建這跟現階段的這個ETF相差非常的大看一看好像殖利率偏低有很大的關係但是另外一個部分我們過去這幾年來說"},{"start":6195.334,"end":6211.045,"text":"所實驗的結果我看到整個市值我們甚至低於這個馬來西亞低於菲律賓臺灣在整個亞洲地區各大交易所的瑞士的狀況竟然是最後一名只有1.3%可是1.3%的情況底下主委"},{"start":6215.131,"end":6224.929,"text":"局長你把這一個不動產條例的條文複製到投信投顧法當中你認為這個部分真的有辦法就把這個數字給衝高嗎?主委"},{"start":6227.222,"end":6229.704,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。namon"},{"start":6248.118,"end":6249.219,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。"},{"start":6263.248,"end":6265.11,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2"},{"start":6281.403,"end":6284.384,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。breviation of Debt Debt Debt Debt Debt Debt"},{"start":6310.774,"end":6311.535,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":6332.055,"end":6338.217,"text":"其實您看他下面的underline asset就是他可以投資的資產範圍是很比現在的可能要更廣闊了"},{"start":6357.852,"end":6384.703,"text":"更廣闊可是問題是主委我跟你講說更廣闊的部分還有這個30%的部分喔你現在不動產你現階段的公建的部分你就可以限制投資30%喔可是現在都沒有人做啊都沒有人做所以你基本上你有兩個目標一個是吸收自然人的民間油資一個是法人的一個資金也就是我們一直期待我們這個保險基金能夠從國外引到國內投資嘛"},{"start":6386.124,"end":6412.326,"text":"那以原來單軌的部分就沒有辦法進行雙軌的部分你又複製同樣的條文你怎麼保證它可以進行呢我個人覺得那個投信事業它的經營的積極度當然這個對銀行業可能不太好意思我覺得投信事業的積極度而且我跟您報告香港、日本、新加坡都是基金型的都是基金型的不好意思我覺得就是國外的慣例啦基金型是基本上比較"},{"start":6413.227,"end":6433.16,"text":"張局長你自己有沒有設定目標張局長我剛剛不要那個主委不方便給你任務壓力我們基本的設定目標就希望比信託方式還要還要好對剛好好那你大概多少目標嘛你有沒有辦法像ETF一樣一天吸引多少資金你至少自己給自己設定一個目標你換成這樣子我就先問你的版本啊我先不要講我的版本嘛"},{"start":6434.361,"end":6450.954,"text":"我再舉一個例子你要講這個之前因為工建要引導工建我們在2017年的時候你也開放投信設置私募型基金來進行這個工建基金基建型的私募基金基建型的私募基金你7年的時間幾次"},{"start":6453.783,"end":6454.023,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":6477.262,"end":6495.687,"text":"基本上我們是希望比現在的進度好但至於這個數字我覺得因為還沒有挑戰性的吧局長今天是詢答了那還有一次那如果我有機會再那就是我們請跟工會討論一下估計一下答案不見得正確我們給一個KPI給你"},{"start":6498.388,"end":6502.97,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":6525.638,"end":6551.747,"text":"第二個部分你在說關股的部分投資超過20%跟10%的情況底下我舉一個例子高捷有中鋼的投資那律師就不能投資高捷那就很奇怪這相對有保障的大家就想要投資所以我意思是說我是不是把這個東西修法拿掉然後規範在執法當中你又把風險放在執法不要設定這麼嚴張局長"},{"start":6554.889,"end":6573.677,"text":"審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎審慎"},{"start":6574.037,"end":6601.345,"text":"關股就是代表一定的公信力大家才會來投嘛沒有現在還有條文尋答的時間我就把我的意見丟出來啦齁那因為時間非常有限我最後齁我看到那個施局長最近有發出一個風聲就是受險業說這個避險代價過高就確實啦齁那要檢討這個外匯準備金機制啦齁這個基本上政策方向看起來已經有這個走向但是我還是要問啦這樣的情況底下會不會讓這些受險業資金更往國外跑"},{"start":6603.41,"end":6612.74,"text":"包委員因為我們國外投資的額度是沒有變的並沒有提高它只是在裡面微調它的那個投資的選項的額度大概只有3%最高到3%的調整這樣而已總額度沒有變"},{"start":6624.311,"end":6650.785,"text":"總和度沒有變沒有變都沒有變對好那主委最後因為你你你這個部分我是想說我實在沒有時間了不過我還是要跟您提一下當初的部分真的還要再思考一下我統計過一個最後一個表格的數字讓你參考最後一個表格其實所謂的正式收益都是馬拉斯就是產民的賠錢比較多賺錢的其實都是那個券商還有包括政府那這個數字讓你參考一下讓你思考一下"},{"start":6652.046,"end":6653.027,"text":"李燕秀委員質詢"},{"start":6682.392,"end":6683.333,"text":"謝謝,我可不可以請主委"},{"start":6691.711,"end":6713.924,"text":"謝謝主委,辛苦您了。有一句話大家常常在講,上台容易下台難。往往離開的身影就可以看到一個人的高貴跟優雅。黃主委您是在金管會的位置上最久的一位主委。不管在藍綠的委員當中其實對於您的評價其實私底下都給予很多的肯定。我覺得這一點"},{"start":6714.884,"end":6716.806,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":6738.006,"end":6748.595,"text":"應該有的一些底線的堅持我看到您的努力喔那昨天我聽到召委在質詢的時候您說您比較掛心了兩個重要的政策一個是虛擬資產的專法還有包括BNPL先買後付這兩件事重要的政策其實都會影響到我們資產的穩定度"},{"start":6759.844,"end":6787.031,"text":"所以面對包括中國大陸在這段時間從去年前年開始疫情之後景氣的不穩定的狀況包括歐美國家包括好幾間銀行金融的狀況我覺得我們整體臺灣的金融業相對的是穩定的所以主委你也說你會拼到5月19號但是我們也看到資本的穩定市場穩定其實還有一個很重要的因素就是我們的保險業的穩健"},{"start":6788.391,"end":6815.081,"text":"在這一塊無論是前段時間我跟您的答詢過程當中我看到您的堅持那臺灣在保險業的穩健的部分包括臺灣保險的滲透率的部分這個比例相對是非常高的包括在臺灣我們平均每個國人都有2.6張保單所以除了過去對於保險法我們RBC要達到200%其實你的立場"},{"start":6817.822,"end":6820.983,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":6847.932,"end":6856.935,"text":"你會不會擔心你在這一段時間包括在保險業者你要求的法定的這個市主力RBC要達到200%還有我們跟ICS的接軌你會不會擔心人去政協"},{"start":6864.904,"end":6880.779,"text":"我想第一點有關保險資本市主律其實它是現在明定於保險法那什麼程度那該做什麼處理這叫立即糾正措施都明定的這是我們必須要依法去處理那至於說接軌的部分"},{"start":6881.54,"end":6909.693,"text":"我想我們過去的態度就是考慮國情並不是把國外的規範完全不考慮就全部套在國內業者上也給了三個階段的相關的措施那我想這部分我盡力了那當然我想未來的彭主委他比我對保險更專精他是保險專家因為過去他在媒體上對於這些可能有不同的看法你會不會擔心這些因為這是你過去所堅持的那你會不會擔心會打折扣"},{"start":6910.598,"end":6932.538,"text":"其實我過去也跟彭老師也常請教了那我覺得有些意見我也都接納他的想法那當然他將來接了這個主委的位置他當然會對一些政策有他的想法我昨天也報告過那我們尊重未來彭主委的想法好那到6月底前報告保險業達到RCP達到200%你會持續的推動嗎?"},{"start":6938.389,"end":6947.74,"text":"這個沒有妥協的空間該做什麼就做什麼謝謝主委你果然是努力到最後一天你請回喔謝謝我請我們親愛的主記者"},{"start":6958.089,"end":6979.104,"text":"主席長好主席長我先就一個小議題請教您就是在這一次衛福部公告護理人員夜班的獎勵方案這本來是要鼓勵醫護人員留任的政策跟方案後來我們也看到引起很多的反彈因為本來是要幫大夜班"},{"start":6980.264,"end":7006.54,"text":"大小夜班都有增加一些補助的費用但是後來引起區醫院跟地區醫院很多的反彈因為在醫學中心的部分實在是增加的那個獎勵金實在太高這也造成區醫院跟地區醫院的護理人員流動的流失非常的快所以新的方案已經出來了那會需要增加到1.13億元的預算健保署表示會積極的爭取那爭取當然是要跟主計處爭取那"},{"start":7009.983,"end":7022.138,"text":"這個部分的我聽到好像卡在主計處你這邊沒有沒有沒有沒有我們原來就有113就有編那個好一個軍會阿另外一個他是要"},{"start":7022.679,"end":7041.068,"text":"要再次說到底應該是是由他的那個就是說我們在那個特別預算裡面也變一筆錢還是要在總額裡面決定那個是由衛福部來決定的因為最後講到錢的問題都喜歡說是主計總處"},{"start":7042.389,"end":7057.869,"text":"都是你去決定對對沒有我們有因為我們的御師但是從衛福部去處理還是從特別預算處現在還沒橋定這個行政院還沒決定就對了沒有沒有特別預算也已經在那個就就是以後的有一個特別預算"},{"start":7062.41,"end":7082.415,"text":"總預算裏面有編一筆錢那個錢都已經在預算裏面所以說他們內部去調因為預算已經通過了不可能再增加所以跟你沒有關係是跟衛福部有關係所以卡是卡在衛福部不是卡在你這邊我這邊的錢都是大約已經通過了不可能是再增加"},{"start":7083.075,"end":7089.358,"text":"我知道不能再增加但是就是從衛福部裡面去做決定錢到底是用哪一筆錢特別預算要經過你這邊嗎特別預算也是大院通過的"},{"start":7094.482,"end":7112.769,"text":"OK那決定撥給哪些因為這個是後來才增加證據的對對對他要分配啦那個是那個醫學中心那個區醫院地區醫院我知啊主席我知啊我們長話短說因為我還有別的議題要請教您所以這個部分其實衛福部自己就可以決定了對"},{"start":7114.022,"end":7139.314,"text":"好那我清楚了好謝謝那你知道這個預算什麼時候會通過嗎因為多拖一天我擔心護理人員留不住那個是衛福部要做一個說快一點他的一個所謂的那個撥款的程序快點怎麼決定去使用這筆錢經費都已經在特別預算跟他的健保的總合裡面都已經有了"},{"start":7140.475,"end":7154.677,"text":"好那所以是卡在衛福部就對了好好那謝謝主席長那我第二個問題要就教主席長主席長我最近看到幾個數字就是我們一二月二月公布的受僱人員的薪資跟人數其實都達到"},{"start":7155.678,"end":7181.472,"text":"新高都是達到我們過去6年來的第二高平均每人每月有達到46,017元比上去年同期我們增加2.39個的百分點但是我們去年實質總薪資總共下降1.04所以主計長一二月經常性薪資達到2.39的成長主要的原因是什麼那個是因為我們那個"},{"start":7184.369,"end":7209.122,"text":"就就是說企業界他也跟著像公交人員還有基本工資調高所以是因為我們增加了4%的加薪有帶動民間而且那個基本薪資也有提高那主席長你覺得因為我們幫公務人員加薪而帶動我們整個基本工資提高你覺得那個比例大概帶動整個成長的比例有多少"},{"start":7209.522,"end":7230.133,"text":"那個終究是有限,但是它是有一個...差不多幾%啦?你覺得差不多多少?那個我們沒有做這種估計,因為那個公教陵園只佔大概只有大概五六十萬人但是那個所謂的軍公教陵只有五六十萬人但是全國的那個...我知道,但是我的意思是說我們整個經濟的成長2.39%多少是因為"},{"start":7234.855,"end":7259.126,"text":"我們基本工資提高而整個經濟帶動起來是因為加薪4%民間也加薪所以整個經濟往上走那個是我們沒有做很難去分因為他的調薪的原因有很多但是會不會實質薪資成長我必須說明那應該是看那個CPI的成長情況如果CPI的維持的這個區塊的"},{"start":7260.667,"end":7266.753,"text":"指數是2.74所以其實物價通膨還是把這個加薪啊還是整個還是把它往下拖所以我們人民的實際薪資其實還是倒退路的所以但是主席講"},{"start":7286.911,"end":7313.766,"text":"我們今年3月公布CBI是2.14那到底第一季有沒有機會實質薪資轉正那個是有機會但是我不敢肯定因為那個是最新的那個資料但是我們副處長說有機會轉正啊是有機會啦是有機會但是我們3月份的調查資料薪資的調查資料要到下個月5號才能夠出來"},{"start":7314.206,"end":7337.057,"text":"那我們整年度那我就繼續接著問因為我上次問你說我們今年度整個實質總薪資實質薪資到底整年會怎麼樣那你覺得今年2024薪資有沒有可能轉正我們希望轉正啦但是有不確定的因素不確定的因素是因為目前國際圈的油價在往上國際圈的油價在往上是有這個因素嗎"},{"start":7338.518,"end":7351.273,"text":"只有這個因素嗎?這個是一個蠻大的一個因素的那個以及那個國際間那個會不會受到一些所以你覺得今年實質薪資轉正的比例大概是多少?我只能夠說有機會啦有機會"},{"start":7354.471,"end":7370.107,"text":"有機會有機會是差不多多少啦你預估預測主計主計長最會預測啊我不我不那個預測是具有不確定性的因素不確定性的因素如果萬一說有油價因為我們現在前些時候大家預計油價都大概在80塊"},{"start":7371.048,"end":7372.369,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":7400.299,"end":7401.139,"text":"謝謝李燕秀委員質詢接著我們請賴慧雲委員質詢"},{"start":7435.983,"end":7458.206,"text":"謝謝主席。我們請那個主委還有銀行局、政區局還有初參司、副司長。請黃主委。銀行局局長、政區局長。是,主委早安。主委我想針對著今天修正的一個草案跟主委來做一個探討。是,請指示。其實我想就是"},{"start":7459.445,"end":7476.015,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7476.015,"end":7505.333,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7505.829,"end":7529.874,"text":"是,不過現在是由基金投信業者或是專業的不動產投資企業去做基金型的所以我們今天就是希望增加基金型是那如果就是說光是台灣目前只有7檔就是獲利低是不是有人想要投資那我們如果從馬來西亞、新加坡、美國、台灣這個同時就是說在"},{"start":7530.674,"end":7532.515,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2"},{"start":7544.206,"end":7562.433,"text":"這是在一個商業市場的裡頭一個最自然自然的一個淘汰法還是說生存的一個法則那我想在這裡就是說為什麼發展不佳那目前就是說我們的綠色發展的一個市場到底遇到了什麼樣的一個問題"},{"start":7563.573,"end":7566.754,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":7585.623,"end":7601.459,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7601.579,"end":7628.791,"text":"其實我們從民國92年有不動產正經化條例之後其實就是用信託型的架構來做位置那其中98年的時候還同意開放開發型的那105年要同意投資國外但儘管有這兩個擴大範圍的這個措施其實到目前來講臺灣的這個整個規模大概就像您所指有不到700億左右可是你看香港那麼小它就有6400億日本有3.2兆新加坡有2.3兆那"},{"start":7630.932,"end":7654.819,"text":"規則它的架構上面其他國家都是用基金行有的是一檔基金有一個機構當然我們現在是一個機構可以發很多檔那我覺得這個組織架構可能會變成為這個它基金是不是活躍的一個原因之一因為畢竟在現在的狀況之下銀行要信託機構保管運用甚至運用它也不是直接去做它是委託另外一個機構去管"},{"start":7655.339,"end":7669.714,"text":"但是現在的基金型就是基金機構本身就也不動產做那個投資人才所以就是說顯然我從你的一個談話裡頭你也同意就是說透過一個基金的一個模式我們讓這個募集可以更吸引到投資人是是是"},{"start":7670.495,"end":7697.99,"text":"所以就是說上面的三個問題都已經解決了那有沒有解決呢那我們是不是可以放寬類似的一個投資項目讓民眾去參與公共的一個建設我們現在知道就是說所有所有興建中的這些公社不管是社宅還是說我們的利能還有我們很多的一個國內現在如火如荼的在進行的一些投資案那"},{"start":7699.21,"end":7724.184,"text":"這裡請教主委就是說你看喔我們光是這個一月份我們出來的一個通告就是光是那個我們開戶的股民就佔了74萬47萬47萬不好意思齁那就是說總開戶我們有1256萬相當是全台灣一半的人口那事實上小股民的一個實力非常的雄厚那如果就是說"},{"start":7724.804,"end":7724.844,"text":"議員報告案2"},{"start":7750.345,"end":7773.303,"text":"我們怕這個基金會影響房價但是公共建設是有比方說風力發電離岸發電綠能的這些發電建設都可以只要他能夠產生穩定現金流量都可以納入但我們也是目的是希望讓這些切割化的證券化的證券經過安排機構的信用的增強能夠讓小額的投資人能夠安心的投資"},{"start":7773.763,"end":7797.092,"text":"但是如果我們回到不動產證券化的話就是說有很多我們的主要的產品是在不動產那我想請教初參司如果就是說透過一個初參司的一個PPP的一個方式有沒有機會我們把這個這些錢就是說讓那個可以跟PPP合併在一起然後我們來募資呢"},{"start":7798.572,"end":7823.336,"text":"跟委員報告我們也是很希望說就是這個資金可以導引到那個我們目前正在推的政府有償取得公共服務就是有償PPP的案子裡面是所以可是主委是講說這個社會住宅是不適用的報告委員現在的草案中裡面沒有包括類似這種社宅這些住宅的性質因為就擔心會有主委可不可以放進來呢"},{"start":7827.263,"end":7842.863,"text":"這個我們草案是沒有當然看到時候委員會討論的時候因為我們當初是顧慮民眾覺得這個基金一個基金又到這個房市來講會不會讓民眾誤以為又要再炒房所以有這個怕這個誤會了所以就沒有放進去"},{"start":7843.303,"end":7868.945,"text":"所以就是說怕我們先暫時迴避一下。所以沒有把它放進去。當然尊重委員最後面在逐條討論的時候的意見是。是。好。那謝謝主委。謝謝委員。我想就是說我們透過初餐的一個方式創造有沒有機會就是說創造就是弱勢的民眾他有比較多的一個機會可以再投資就是所以我們"},{"start":7869.605,"end":7871.926,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。"},{"start":7894.474,"end":7898.639,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關財政委員會第1、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":7915.492,"end":7941.647,"text":"委員您問到一個重點因為它是一般投資人可以投資的所以投資人保護很重要那治理問題很重要所以這裡面包括基金的架構裡面包括一定它的有產生穩定現金流量的資產今天我的報告有至少要到75以上那75以上的資產要產生90以上的現金收入讓它很穩定對於投資人才是有保障的治理問題就是投資人保護問題是我們非常重視的"},{"start":7942.227,"end":7942.768,"text":"請局長報告"},{"start":7961.584,"end":7980.831,"text":"有很多的事項比方說關係人交易等等他最後還要受益人大會去決議不是他個別公司可以決定的局長我想請教你就是針對的第49條之二你在這裡頭有特別就是第14項裡頭有想受益人的一個會議召開的一個事由是由出前"},{"start":7981.331,"end":7996.255,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":8011.588,"end":8039.597,"text":"我們後面將來會有執法我們可以做細部的規範如果有必要的時候那你的執法裡頭會不會把它訂入就是說每年開一次受益人大會呢顯然這個三年再開一次的話是非常危險的喔局長我們到了執法那邊在討論但是我們目前的規範是說至少要三年要開一個那你的態度呢你認為三年開一次比較安全還是一年開一次比較安全呢"},{"start":8040.871,"end":8049.425,"text":"目前我們是用三年的方式啦因為目前看國外的所以我問你阿是三年比較安全還是一年比較安全阿因為他開每年開的話成本會很高"},{"start":8050.151,"end":8066.983,"text":"總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面"},{"start":8079.451,"end":8103.208,"text":"好 謝謝主委我想就是說本席在這邊要求就是金管會評估修法後那就是說整個市場的一個成長的一個狀況跟內政部協調是不是在草案修正以後優先提出以公共建設為標的的一個商品那也希望金管會要要求每年召開受益人會議增加他的一個透明度保障小股東的一個潛意"},{"start":8103.868,"end":8116.233,"text":"我們朝這個方向去研究好不好?謝謝委員謝謝主席謝謝代會委員質詢待會我們在武力法委員質詢之後我們休息10分鐘接著我們請王洪威委員質詢好謝謝主席我請我們的主計長有請主計長"},{"start":8135.391,"end":8154.623,"text":"主席長,剛才您說可能在520之後您不在這個位置上,可能會在其他位置上我沒有說在其他位置上,我沒有,現在沒有人找我反正沒關係,現在沒有人找你"},{"start":8156.224,"end":8156.244,"text":"是對。"},{"start":8179.309,"end":8182.03,"text":"1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告"},{"start":8202.359,"end":8214.549,"text":"前20%跟後20%的差距是16.8倍所以當時有討論到我們的財富分配等於說前20%跟後20%有16.8倍時隔30年我想因為你們這一定做了非常久請問一下這個財富分配的倍數有沒有擴張到20倍以上"},{"start":8229.72,"end":8257.304,"text":"跟那個委員報告一下因為這個是我們要經過那個所謂的國事普查委員會要經過委員會的審查我們才能夠公布這委員會要核定是不是對要他們核定到如果我公布就是違反規定我先講就是違反規定你現在公布的時間是4月底確定了嗎對我們一定會公布因為這個是在我的時候我再來"},{"start":8258.137,"end":8269.014,"text":"主計總書我就有個使命叫希望有一個財富分配的報告所以我請我們的同仁努力要做這一塊把它做出來讓這個將來作為政策的"},{"start":8273.641,"end":8293.698,"text":"主計講因為你是在你卸任之前就是你的使命把它完成可是我覺得過去其實我們每30年才公布一次家庭財富的分配報告事實上真的等太久那當然我們也會期待有些要突破"},{"start":8296.388,"end":8311.894,"text":"但是真的30年等太久我們就等看4月底之前你們到底公布的數字是什麼我是很想看一下經過30年平均每一戶家庭的財富到底是多少另外來討論一個我覺得也非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":8317.366,"end":8340.328,"text":"我們主計處其實也注意到我們在整個的通膨的壓力之下那麼我們現在的房租是持續的年增率是飆升那事實上在去年在去年的結束的時候就是我們的房租的年增率已經達到27年來的新高那麼"},{"start":8342.079,"end":8370.514,"text":"到今年第一季過去了前三個月每一個月的房租年增率都超過了2%那也就是我們已經連續8個月都破了兩趴也是創下紀錄所以主計長你覺不覺得在我們整個所有的通膨的壓力之下我們現在所有的租屋族其實是壓力最大的一個族群之一"},{"start":8371.455,"end":8387.508,"text":"所以我們有那個租金的300億的租金的政策就是說讓這個是比較尤其是年輕的人他的租金的壓力能夠變小我們有就是說有推行這個政策。總理長你覺得為什麼從"},{"start":8390.831,"end":8402.533,"text":"去年開始事實上是其實這幾年租屋族的壓力都非常非常的大造成我們租屋的這個一直要漲價的主要原因你覺得是什麼?"},{"start":8403.132,"end":8426.75,"text":"那個就是因為房屋的建築成本增加黃東的那個可是有很多都是老房子啊那個老房子的話我可以跟那個委員報告一下老房子的話我們是用一種受賺的所以是老房子因為新房子的增加老房子也會增加因為老房子為什麼增加因為通膨的壓力"},{"start":8428.852,"end":8447.109,"text":"需求也是通膨的壓力然後我看到你們一個新聞說主計總處說還有升息的壓力其實當時在央行要宣布升息的時候其實很多的房東都會把他的成本"},{"start":8447.509,"end":8451.332,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":8471.189,"end":8474.973,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。breviation of審議凍結書面報告案3"},{"start":8493.61,"end":8515.183,"text":"但是我們現在的電價調整也就是能源政策的一個錯誤它不僅僅只是造成最近比如說你看整個的缺電然後很多的跳電的問題還有其實它所帶來的是來自於我們通膨的壓力中央銀行的貨幣政策還有租屋族的壓力你同不同意"},{"start":8515.803,"end":8527.827,"text":"跟那個委員報告一下的確有些事是說那個電費的漲他的房租會增加但是有些他們在計算的時候房租他們跟那個電費是兩個獨立的是獨立的算"},{"start":8531.645,"end":8559.605,"text":"對,獨立算,所以它電價就漲啊,那個租屋族也是漲啊,因為租屋族它是被動,因為我的這個時間也有限但是呢,我要講就是說,我們現在真的要去正視我們整個租屋族的壓力我覺得我們政府好像沒有去,除了主計處,其他好像沒有特別去重視已經連續8個月多破2%,而且一直不停的上漲,我覺得對租屋族來講是非常大的壓力"},{"start":8560.205,"end":8583.724,"text":"那另外那個主席長想請問一下我們今年二倍金動用了嗎二倍金有些來申請動用但是目前還沒有支付那我們現在就是這一次的花蓮震災會不會動用二倍金目前並沒有要動用二倍金它在4月3號發生震災的時候我們就主計總處就在當天有撥啦"},{"start":8588.408,"end":8592.991,"text":"主計長我想請問一下以花蓮縣政災的規模這麼大因為包含東華大學包含整個太魯閣很多景區的一個復建是不是應該編列特別預算"},{"start":8608.19,"end":8618.067,"text":"那個編列特別預算可以討論到如果是說金額小的話編列特別預算是不是有必要可以請大院作為一個參考"},{"start":8619.178,"end":8642.052,"text":"所以是特別列特別預算那另外請問一下主計長主計長雖然可能馬上要那個離開位置因為我們現在呢在財委會有很多委員提出我們那個預算法的修正那麼預算法第83條第4款比如說我就提出來第4款直接刪除但是我想請問主計長你應該對預算法滾刮爛熟比我還要熟悉了"},{"start":8646.215,"end":8661.833,"text":"如果83條第4款把它刪除請問一下像0403花蓮這樣重大的災害可不可以編列特別預算那個是可以利用第三款那個是可以的"},{"start":8662.273,"end":8690.987,"text":"沒有錯嘛它利用第三款是可以繼續再對重大災害有些像那個是我們像前些時候的前瞻就是利用第四款它是利用第四款像前瞻利用第三款可是比如過去的一些重大災害是可以利用第三款所以完全不會影響重大災害或者是經濟重大災變的這些的就是特別預算的編列對不對"},{"start":8692.191,"end":8718.629,"text":"對那個是要看那個他所做的事項是什麼啦那如果是因為主計長你最熟預算法因為前一陣子呢有很多的一些我直接說一些側翼針對我們對預算法的修正把他汙名化說哎呀這樣呢花蓮正宅就不能夠編列特別預算這個根本就是胡說八道啊那個跟委員說明一下如果是正宅"},{"start":8719.569,"end":8743.691,"text":"有關的是可以用第三款如果是因為地震要復原的話就要回到第四款復原的話就可以用公務預算就不能不能夠用特別預算了嗎對那個我可以認同委員的觀點但是我們現在0403現在如果要編列特別預算是可以的嗎"},{"start":8747.098,"end":8759.004,"text":"我是認為說可以討論因為我看到那個貴黨提出來才150億要分3年那就像委員所講的是不是可以在普通預算裡面容納"},{"start":8759.895,"end":8760.876,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":8777.904,"end":8806.099,"text":"二倍金花了這麼多錢在打砸結果呢賬片頻創新高啊浪費我們那麼多納稅人的錢做了很多的宣傳啊結果呢我們的不管是案件數或金額數都只有在升高所以未來各部會我又沒有時間比較下面還要剪好幾個部會動用二倍金長年就在編列長年的來用二倍金其實都是不合理的"},{"start":8806.659,"end":8834.102,"text":"那對他自己原來自己的部門預算他都隨便在亂編嗎二、備金花了那麼多的錢在打詐結果打詐的成績這麼難看阿伯現在跟委員報告一下因為112年的軍會是在112年5、6月份的時候就要確定所以在那個時候打詐的那個還沒有那麼說有急迫性阿現在是因為到了112的時候打詐急迫性所以會要動用二、備金謝謝委員"},{"start":8837.111,"end":8838.492,"text":"主席好有請金管會主委有請黃主委"},{"start":8866.704,"end":8891.92,"text":"主委好您辛苦了。主委我們看到目前的行政院版頭顧法草案第49條之三第一項他是不是有說到不動產投資信託基金不得投資於住宅那請問一下主委就是為何限制不動產投資信託基金來投資住宅"},{"start":8892.677,"end":8915.422,"text":"因為過去這段時間大家對,也許我們在2020開始有這個房價穩定的這些相關的機制措施,大家對高房價其實都有一些社會的誤議。那我們是有一點顧慮,那如果這個新的資金來源也投資到這個住宅的話,會不會讓一些民眾誤認為說這個基金也是在炒房。"},{"start":8915.862,"end":8940.632,"text":"是是好謝謝主委我們也是這麼想那我們來看一下頭目法草案的第5條他有去定義不動產失職土地還有其他建物等等等那都計法呢他說劃定住宅商業工業等使用區另外第34條也說住宅區為保護"},{"start":8941.392,"end":8941.772,"text":"議員主席議員主席"},{"start":8963.141,"end":8985.861,"text":"為什麼這麼問這麼關心因為頭顧法草案第49條之3他是可以投資開發型的不動產那問題就是想要請教關於這種他必須要去買地那他買地他到底是要購買商業用地還是購買住宅用地還是說他都可以買"},{"start":8988.029,"end":8994.838,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa"},{"start":9007.553,"end":9030.623,"text":"舉例的限制那我們來看一下如果以臺北市為例來看他的第三類住宅區他是可以蓋旅館的所以再請教一下這個不動產投資信託基金可以購買住宅用地興建旅館嗎報告委員這個我不是地政專家那住宅用地興建旅館我不曉得可不可以但是旅館是可以的"},{"start":9034.309,"end":9052.803,"text":"關心當這個不動產投資信託基金購買住宅用地的時候您剛剛一開始就講嘛是有可能會推升附近住宅的一個房價用地價格那我就是想請教主委您認為需不需要做限制"},{"start":9054.005,"end":9055.346,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":9074.198,"end":9093.669,"text":"那我會提一個修正動議就是不動產投資信託基金以投資或運用於下列標的為限且不得投資於住宅法第3條第1款所定住宅或都市計劃法第34條所定住宅區土地主委你怎麼看"},{"start":9094.451,"end":9094.571,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":9111.536,"end":9120.319,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議"},{"start":9138.524,"end":9158.569,"text":"那事實上這個應該是可以掌握的因為警鐘早已響起啊2020年全球爆發疫情大家開始做遠距辦公那這個已經是漸漸變成常態化可以預期商辦的需求會弱化加上呢前年的3月美國暴力升息"},{"start":9159.289,"end":9162.19,"text":"因此這是可預期的需求下降成本上升業者就倒閉那為什麼關心這個問題因為新聞有看到啦金管會證實六家銀行重建喔"},{"start":9180.194,"end":9202.629,"text":"那什麼意思就是我們看到他們是聯合借錢給這些歐美的商辦業者那目前我這邊得知的案件數是10件美國的連帶案跟一件歐洲連帶案他的參代餘額呢大概是104億多新台幣那預估的待帳損失呢是大約30億的新台幣"},{"start":9203.59,"end":9220.577,"text":"可是我們看到金管會2023年的稅入預算是8億多嘛所以這個災障的損失呢變成是你們金管會4年稅收的總和所以我想要請教一下主委你們掌握到的是哪六家銀行我問您報告"},{"start":9225.45,"end":9247.56,"text":"美國的情況您分析得非常好可是我跟您報告其實我們兩年前就開始要求我們的銀行去注意他的有而且精檢也有去做而且這裡面所發現遇到雷的這些銀行其實精檢有的真的經驗也都去查過不是沒有查那這六家當然有一家是對您已經公佈了一家"},{"start":9249.596,"end":9252.32,"text":"還有一家民營的趙鋒、易營、張營、何酷請教一下民營是誰王道銀行"},{"start":9262.544,"end":9289.5,"text":"那其中有一些因為歐洲的那個法國的那個那個養老院的案子是一個連帶案那個案子其實檢察局去歐洲查的時候也有查到其實我們都是從新聞看他說共有10件商辦受信損失6家銀行踩雷那其中呢有兩件以全數轉銷呆帳再請教一下主委轉銷呆帳的那一家是哪一家"},{"start":9290.794,"end":9298.66,"text":"華銀轉銷張銀轉銷"},{"start":9298.973,"end":9322.192,"text":"那去年12月金管會將歐美商辦授信案列入了海外精簡重點您剛剛提到了那精簡的時候到底查出哪些缺失?報告員其實我跟您報告您剛剛一開始點出來一個是需求面因為疫情第二就是美國暴力升息這兩點其實在當初我在做貸款的時候其實都不見得是銀行它能夠預料的到銀行預料不到"},{"start":9325.162,"end":9325.882,"text":"希望金管會更精進"},{"start":9342.85,"end":9354.621,"text":"很多的狀況能夠及早的去掌握預警那避免再度採了影響我們的金融市場那最後一個問題也是從新聞看的有一個東西叫入金機"},{"start":9356.849,"end":9382.54,"text":"請問主委你聽過這個東西嗎我最近有看到網路上有這個我是從來不知道有這個東西後來我才知道說原來有一個東西叫入金機客戶可以租用存現金進去遠端連線可以存到他銀行的帳戶然後定時定期會有保全公司去提領那個現金到銀行竟然有這種東西那我們看到"},{"start":9383.22,"end":9405.436,"text":"入金機已經變成是詐騙工具了喔。犯罪集團呢他們把贓款存到這個入金機有什麼好處不用跑銀行不用被盤問欸竟然有這種東西那請教一下主委就您目前的掌握這個入金機他到底是保險公司借出去的還是銀行出借的"},{"start":9406.038,"end":9426.343,"text":"我們了解是目前中部有一家有一家一個入金機的地方被檢調移送但是目前沒有資訊得知這個入金機的所有者或是聯繫的機制是跟金融機構有沒有關係還不確定所以現在我們其實無法確知這個東西我們沒有辦法從檢調得到資訊不過一般銀行的ATM本來就有存款功能"},{"start":9426.783,"end":9441.63,"text":"好那這個已經算是警鐘了嘛變成一個犯罪工具那依照我們洗房法所定的這個金融機構對達一定金額以上通過交易及疑似洗錢交易的申辦報法第二條"},{"start":9442.63,"end":9466.461,"text":"指新台幣50萬元交易完成後5個營業日內要以媒體申報的方式向法務部調查局申報所以這邊請教主委就是入金機不論是就像你們剛剛講的還沒有辦法掌握是保險公司還是銀行就是想要請教匯入了這個超過50萬有沒有受到這個法的一個"},{"start":9468.076,"end":9483.677,"text":"約束力有沒有要申報因為入金機不能判斷是不是銀行的我想應該是銀行的機會也不見得那麼大所以勢必這是一個破口如果是大家有很多這種入金機的話就要去做防範"},{"start":9484.857,"end":9512.379,"text":"對他就是一個破口啦所以我們現在就是說要去查嘛他會入哪一些銀行是境內還是境外齁這個希望金管會要去掌握而且我們比較擔心的是說因為你們一直強調KYC是這個know your customer是你知道你的客戶是誰認識你的客戶是誰是金管會再三要求銀行要落實的洗房準則齁所以這個部分我們是希望說摸高一尺啊"},{"start":9512.799,"end":9514.08,"text":"五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":10206.015,"end":10207.076,"text":"有請黃主委有請黃主委"},{"start":10239.361,"end":10258.902,"text":"我們昨天談到的是融資公司專法那今天早上臺北律師公會也開了一個記者會他們也提出了民間的版本那我想這幾天大家都在討論不管是山道猴子還是說現在的三大租賃公司他們現在已經是我國最大的銀子銀行"},{"start":10260.043,"end":10287.023,"text":"那融資公司現在的亂象已經超越當年的銀行卡債的風暴那現在它的債務吹收違約金的上限還有利率的上限甚至貸款審核的責任都沒有任何辦法可以管主委這是我們認為它是民間借貸但是它跟我們銀行高度監管跟高度管控的這樣的手法完全不一樣"},{"start":10288.384,"end":10317.348,"text":"現在今天像律師公會他們提出來的現在是一張照片就可以核代買一個電冰箱拍一張電冰箱的照片就可以核代20萬這才是今天融資公司法必須有存在的必要性主委我知道你們有很多疑慮對於這樣的現象主委有什麼看法一張照片可以貸款20萬一個買一個冰箱可以貸款20萬這是什麼樣的融資公司"},{"start":10317.788,"end":10343.116,"text":"對,其實委員您指正的很對因為傳統上銀行壽星應該是以那個財產的價值long to value信貸比他那個有點是不動銀收債權收買我們已經要求租賃公會去訂內部融資的標準不可以超過物的價值所以主委我們現在要求租賃公司做這件事他們現在給他資率我們也給他什麼但是一樣嘛沒有法可管"},{"start":10343.736,"end":10345.958,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。"},{"start":10362.493,"end":10363.574,"text":"3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":10381.731,"end":10396.326,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":10403.473,"end":10429.229,"text":"主委我知道你們還有疑慮但是這件東西可能是專法必須要去規範的不管你是用各種方式用公會自律或者是用上市櫃公司來管這三大家但是融資公司還是台灣很大的痛啊所以主委我希望聽到的是在您任內或下一個金管會主委融資公司專法應該是中華民國政府無可迴避的責任你同意嗎"},{"start":10430.441,"end":10451.935,"text":"我想您提的幾個問題目前都是用要求他自立的方式處理那委員如果要用提升法律的位階我昨天有跟大家報告說立法技術上可能有些地方要去框定可以討論但是不能迴避什麼的責任我想一開始您第一天質詢我我記得很清楚你講得很明確你說你至少要求我有一些最低的標準要定出來"},{"start":10452.295,"end":10453.215,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。"},{"start":10470.504,"end":10498.73,"text":"然後就會發生今天很多委員都在提的很多的不管是現在執行法院因為我們最高法院有相關的解釋了所以保險成為被執行的標的保險的準備金保障準備金成為所謂在日人的資產是可以被強制執行的我也是上任之後第一時間就跟保險局討論這件事情因為有太多的民眾尤其是現在行政執行欠稅的人"},{"start":10499.37,"end":10514.905,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":10515.746,"end":10538.728,"text":"那我這兩天看到大家在討論介入權介入權是在受益人的權益的保障但是我今天要討論的是不管受益人是不是要保人比較嚴重的是被保險人他的權益有沒有被保障今天我幫我的小孩買一個醫療險買一個防癌險等到有一天我欠錢了"},{"start":10539.409,"end":10539.549,"text":"議員主委、局長"},{"start":10564.318,"end":10580.407,"text":"健康險才是我認為在保險要被強制執行的標的上面應該要排除這個案子我找過司法院民事廳來討論他說他們沒有問題只要修法那我問他是要修強制執行法還是要修保險法他們建議修保險法"},{"start":10581.408,"end":10594.153,"text":"所以局長跟主委我想知道你們的意見我們能夠把醫療險、健康險的這些排除在強制執行之外嗎?有沒有可能在這個上面對被保險人多一些的保障?"},{"start":10599.446,"end":10628.002,"text":"根文報告其實我們之前也有研議過是不是要修保險法那時候大概外界的意見很分歧後來我們才暫停啦所以啊對民視聽說不要修我的強制法你們修你們的保險法而且說保險法外界有很多意見那請問到底要修哪個法那我們本來是建議說因為現在有像行政法院或者是那個行政法院像臺北行政法院基本上就是解約了啦"},{"start":10628.602,"end":10651.241,"text":"然後強制執行處都看情況還會請當事人來表示一下意見問題就是我剛剛講的那些儲蓄險跟投資型保單我沒什麼意見不管受益者他有沒有介入權他都是他的權益但是健康險、防白險、醫療險這些險我希望他能夠基本做到保護這個被保險人他應該有的權益而不會受影響"},{"start":10653.082,"end":10675.909,"text":"對這個部分其實我們原來是建議那個司法院能夠做一個指導原則啦因為司法院就推給你們啊有保險局來認定我們今天要說的是這件事情已經成為很多民眾的困擾這件事情應該要讓基本的保障不要受到影響就也就是說我現在但是不會影響我孩子我幫我孩子買了20年的妨礙險保單"},{"start":10677.989,"end":10678.349,"text":"財政委員"},{"start":10697.156,"end":10723.165,"text":"謝謝主委我非常高興聽到這句話接下來還有另外一個問題其實我覺得我們在財委會都非常關心每一個人民的權利跟義務接下來就是我們在所謂打仗有所謂的警示賬戶警示賬戶如果他已經有錢成立了或者是他證明他是人頭他不是故意的可能他會被不起訴不起訴之後警示賬戶就會被取消那他就可以使用"},{"start":10724.125,"end":10741.719,"text":"但是現在有新的規定是有所謂的告誡賬戶他可能也是人頭戶他可能也被不起訴但是告誡賬戶目前為止沒有直接可以拿不起訴處分解除他的告誡的程序沒有這個救濟管道"},{"start":10743.12,"end":10769.819,"text":"主委有了解嗎我知道這中間有一個就是有一個很大的gap就是你要配合檢調去強制執行還是兼顧人的這些是的 我這個知道我的意思是說警示賬戶只要拿著不起訴處分書就可以解除但是告誡賬戶我拿了不起訴處分書還不一定能解除我還要去打個官司說我是被騙的我是被害人我沒有我錢進來我沒有轉出去這些事我被告誡"},{"start":10770.58,"end":10792.869,"text":"告誡雖然他還可以用但是他的賬戶很難用可是告誡賬戶目前為止的機制並沒有讓他直接可以從警察機關來做因為不起訴處分而讓他能夠解除這樣的程序我認為目前為止洗房法有這樣子告誡賬戶的新的機制但是忘記了怎麼解除他的程序"},{"start":10794.01,"end":10805.872,"text":"規定沒有加進去所以我希望金管會去研議一下有關告誡賬戶之後是不是跟警示賬戶一樣他有一個直接拿不起訴處分書就可以解除的程序"},{"start":10806.843,"end":10824.066,"text":"主委瞭解我的意思嗎?我瞭解我想您垂詢的有道理我覺得這兩個不能一樣的處分嘛你因為是警示然後最後給我告誡結果警示解除了告誡還不一定解除這是什麼狀況勒?是如果不寫出處分書可以"},{"start":10824.747,"end":10835.821,"text":"解除警示不能解除告誡我實在是不知道我們了解一下不同帳戶之間處理的程序跟標準一不一樣那去做調和所以我希望人民的權利義務我們發聲了"},{"start":10838.538,"end":10864.952,"text":"問題發現了問題我們就應該幫他們解決尤其是保險現在成為執行的標的這件事情已經造成了大部分很多很多包括執行機關包括保險公司包括民眾他可能20年前買的保險他根本不知道他自己20年後會欠債但是基本的保障我們不應該剝奪他保障債權的權益同時要保障債務人基本的生活保障"},{"start":10865.772,"end":10880.57,"text":"謝謝主委。謝謝委員。謝謝黃珊珊委員的資訊。接著我們請李坤城委員資訊。"},{"start":10897.334,"end":10901.296,"text":"謝謝主席我們請黃主委好請黃主委黃院長"},{"start":10908.507,"end":10908.567,"text":"主席"},{"start":10929.621,"end":10941.706,"text":"檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎"},{"start":10943.108,"end":10962.973,"text":"我通常都是謙虛公開就是覺得大家的指教我們就虛心接受不過我跟委員報告我從上任以來每一年青春記者會都有列下來幾個面向幾十項上百項我們推動的措施其中我想記者朋友很清楚我們去看看這裡面"},{"start":10964.373,"end":10986.147,"text":"難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心理嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你對這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那那那,請主委稍微談一下,你認為說在你任內,你覺得說在心理這部分,你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?"},{"start":10987.503,"end":11015.8,"text":"我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個"},{"start":11018.162,"end":11018.922,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":11046.741,"end":11048.482,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa"},{"start":11074.677,"end":11099.974,"text":"金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜耕的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個時候是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本"},{"start":11101.474,"end":11126.361,"text":"現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣"},{"start":11127.521,"end":11127.621,"text":"是的。"},{"start":11148.437,"end":11172.26,"text":"那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資"},{"start":11175.35,"end":11200.078,"text":"這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是正確化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產"},{"start":11201.294,"end":11221.85,"text":"那我們也希望說這一個有更多的這些REITs成立之後對於臺灣的這個公共建設他也能夠去投資嘛對不對但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的那我看我們過去的這一個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家嘛對不對"},{"start":11223.834,"end":11242.123,"text":"五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國"},{"start":11253.837,"end":11268.647,"text":"我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎"},{"start":11271.124,"end":11284.455,"text":"指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7黨在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計你們有概算過嗎?"},{"start":11286.457,"end":11314.819,"text":"當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來啦那這個我們就是既期就不續審啦那今年再提出來啦那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後"},{"start":11315.459,"end":11330.663,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":11345.309,"end":11368.757,"text":"過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?"},{"start":11370.011,"end":11388.846,"text":"我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊"},{"start":11389.411,"end":11408.712,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11409.093,"end":11426.857,"text":"我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵"},{"start":11437.985,"end":11465.617,"text":"因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定"},{"start":11466.567,"end":11492.318,"text":"委員這個宋署長可以給您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式"},{"start":11492.938,"end":11517.673,"text":"那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是喔這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的喔不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒"},{"start":11518.558,"end":11518.918,"text":"接下來請王世堅委員"},{"start":11557.304,"end":11581.455,"text":"主席我請金管會黃主委。黃主委昨天我們金管會公佈有6家銀行在針對歐美商辦授信的部分踩雷"},{"start":11582.728,"end":11610.263,"text":"那6家裡面更讓我們訝異的竟然是有5家公股、行庫這一點讓我們覺得是不可思議欸因為財政部也好、軍管會也好一再的三令五審希望資金能夠留在我們國內來投資公共建設那這一陣子這幾年就不要往國外"},{"start":11611.519,"end":11632.203,"text":"財政委員會第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2會期財政委員會第3會期財政委員會第4會期財政委員會第5會期財政委員會第6會期財政委員會第7會期財政委員會第8會期財政委員會第9會期財政委員會第8會期財政委員會第9會期財政委員會第10會期財政委員會第11會期財政委員會第11會期財政委員會第12會期財政委員會第12會期財政委員會第13會期財政委員會第13會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第15會期"},{"start":11641.771,"end":11654.455,"text":"連公營行庫都調皮搗蛋不聽政府的勸哪幾家剛才也有人槌尋大概就是三商營、彰化第一、華南嘛然後趙豐跟臺銀臺銀臺灣銀行連臺銀哇臺銀是模範生欸"},{"start":11663.547,"end":11686.013,"text":"報告員這個這個授信有問題不見得一定是中間有弊端啦是他有些是風險的判斷對風險判斷的錯誤就是啦模範生也會犯這樣的錯誤我覺得很很訝異啦齁模範生頂多是忘了帶手帕指甲忘了剪怎麼會搞這麼這樣的差錯呢好那現在"},{"start":11691.209,"end":11714.867,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":11720.566,"end":11738.411,"text":"先前你有提過去年你有說要做海外精檢那請問海外精檢做了沒有做其實有的在有做又發生踩雷的然後現在很可能撲雷的還有1400多億"},{"start":11741.192,"end":11763.267,"text":"那這做跟沒做有什麼差別嗎?報告員我們去精檢的時候這些貸款都已經是已經在做了只是去檢查他的做承貸過程中的流程是不是有依照相關的規定去做那做了那好那你海外精檢做的你認為這些授信包括已經採的或者即將曝顯的這1400多億加起來剩1500多億你認為你去精檢之後覺得這些有問題嗎?"},{"start":11771.474,"end":11784.942,"text":"基本上檢察局這邊的結果應該大體上沒有沒有沒有什麼重大的缺失都是程序面的問題是程序面的問題通通沒有缺失程序面程序本身就是"},{"start":11786.232,"end":11805.339,"text":"程序他第一個不合程序的就是說他不聽政府的勸不是嗎我們都呼籲要把資金留在國內要趕快加速我們的公共建設結果他們不聽話還是跑了出去"},{"start":11808.108,"end":11833.056,"text":"報告員這些事報告員跟您報告這個是他們我們國營在海外有很多家幾百家的分行是海外在分行所做的啦所以他本來就在海外就是要做海外的授信嘛對海外的授信本來就該做但是歐洲尤其美國美國那麼大他們的商業商辦"},{"start":11835.844,"end":11858.794,"text":"這樣子的授信要特別小心他到處這邊再開發一下那邊開發一下到處他商業的這樣子的物件太多啦那隨著景氣沾汁在前呼煙在後一下在左一下在右這很難拿捏的不是嗎本來對這個部分就要特別小心啦"},{"start":11859.929,"end":11875.382,"text":"你有這些銀行到國外去有那些分行並不是說那非得那就要一定要做一些授信案一定非得要做多少授信案沒有這樣子的壓力給他們不是嗎"},{"start":11876.215,"end":11898.688,"text":"可是報告委員海外分行他的收入就是要靠受信才能夠有收入的對啦大政策大方向都告訴他說現在該緊縮的時候是該避險不避險為了賺那一點利息不但沒賺到本金被倒掉那不是很慘嗎"},{"start":11899.528,"end":11900.829,"text":"我希望說你海外經檢不只是去年做了"},{"start":11923.581,"end":11951.027,"text":"往後這應該例行性的定期的去做海外精簡那另外還有一件也是我覺得很離譜啊就我昨天提到的這個三大租賃公司數條三兄弟啊這個他們的老大哥中租敵核中租敵核在去年"},{"start":11953.366,"end":11981.246,"text":"宮古行戶連帶給他的時候連帶1260億連帶給中租敵人的時候有跟他加注一個條件就是說這些資金不能拿到對岸中國去做投資授信這樣跟他要求啊不是嗎好啦他連帶拿到啦這個薯條三兄弟的老大"},{"start":11982.762,"end":11994.411,"text":"就公然在中國那邊就大做特做拿到中國去做怎麼知道的欸欸黃主委你也很清楚嘛你看他們去年的財報他去年的財報他有35%的利潤來自於中國"},{"start":12004.161,"end":12020.839,"text":"那就很清楚啦三令五申跟他說受信的條件就是啊那你這一筆你不要拿到中國去做他照樣拿去做那現在拿出來的成績說有啦我們公司三分之一的獲利來自於他"},{"start":12022.666,"end":12042.741,"text":"黃主委第一點這樣子的獲利不可信這樣子的獲利就是公司他們的高層大家分一分而已第二點隱藏的危機根本全然不知啊不是嗎中國那邊現在經濟衰退各行各業都衰退"},{"start":12045.633,"end":12073.462,"text":"國外歐美日自由世界的資金都大量從中國那邊撤離的時候只有這一家無敵鐵金剛拿著我們台灣我們存款戶的錢大剌剌的就過去了所以我認為啊他這樣子的財報只是表面的啦"},{"start":12074.535,"end":12094.24,"text":"這樣的財報第一點黃主委這馬上就違背了我們的授信條件授信的要求不是嗎所以我希望黃主委你回去把這個查清楚連帶給他的是哪幾家銀行一定要查然後誰是主辦銀行第二點有加注這一條寫很清楚連帶給你這1260億不得到中國去做放款"},{"start":12103.157,"end":12131.281,"text":"就這麼清楚他公然就這麼去啦所以這個你查一下你多久時間可以給我這個我們一週之內提供給委員是不是委員多久之內一週可以嗎一週之內這樣子的情況再來我要問你的就是說像類似這樣就是說銀行加注"},{"start":12133.083,"end":12152.916,"text":"一、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總"},{"start":12162.802,"end":12166.744,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":12190.197,"end":12216.292,"text":"台灣我們台灣過去的錢大部分都是在當地借貸的但是他的利潤他說他公司的收益三分之一是來自於不是這樣嗎這個的確對某些租賃公司是事實那你認為他們這樣子的租賃公司那麼神通廣大在中國他另外有辦法拿到資金"},{"start":12218.442,"end":12243.64,"text":"哦,那他們跟中共有共謀囉,有通囉?沒有,那是一個市場機制啦,那個企業需要資金向金融機構借貸。別的我不敢講,不可能有資金給他們在中國那邊放,原因是什麼?中國要這麼做,他們自己就去放給他們自己人就好啦,不是嗎?他幹嘛需要說我們台灣這邊的?"},{"start":12246.171,"end":12272.249,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":12273.979,"end":12297.077,"text":"加注的這個條件他沒有做到那應該怎麼處罰他我已經很清楚他拿到中國去第二點是不是應該維新之氣王洋補勞現在就應該叫他把這筆貸款還回來為什麼因為中國那邊的市長黑媽媽一片"},{"start":12298.564,"end":12300.905,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":12315.889,"end":12316.709,"text":"二、處理中華民國11年度"},{"start":12342.935,"end":12367.648,"text":"主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主席長我們請主席長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去打世界盃都還不能去打世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了"},{"start":12369.349,"end":12398.038,"text":"來 想請問主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊主席長您做到520對吧應該是應該是喔還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對我會去金門玩的你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎"},{"start":12400.515,"end":12425.29,"text":"第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛不是說好學生啦財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛"},{"start":12429.112,"end":12439.816,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。"},{"start":12451.067,"end":12451.687,"text":"總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．"},{"start":12475.777,"end":12485.219,"text":"請你協助這個憲政把我們的憲政的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候"},{"start":12487.35,"end":12511.779,"text":"那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你應該很我知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛那個是兩回事"},{"start":12513.6,"end":12521.983,"text":"財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多"},{"start":12532.247,"end":12557.618,"text":"阿金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的阿主要金門阿當然主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您阿過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生那個是因為我們有個公司那個是每個人都是一樣的就是說他是"},{"start":12558.078,"end":12567.329,"text":"不是法定的社會福利支出我們有一定的一個公司被扣款的不是只有金門那其他的所以你的意思是說我們財力好隨機有勝沒錯第三集嘛這都沒錯嗎"},{"start":12574.657,"end":12575.977,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":12600.373,"end":12628.311,"text":"你扣我們的補助款我們因為原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定"},{"start":12628.911,"end":12647.872,"text":"那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待"},{"start":12650.515,"end":12668.222,"text":"那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個現在國發會主任我不"},{"start":12675.985,"end":12701.756,"text":"主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會對喔我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的"},{"start":12703.117,"end":12730.039,"text":"不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是不恰當是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債社會福利支出我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利可是是因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長"},{"start":12732.561,"end":12733.622,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":12754.704,"end":12755.685,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計"},{"start":12772.017,"end":12774.299,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa"},{"start":12788.951,"end":12792.614,"text":"主計長,你的標準不用改變,但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛。你不用改變標準,反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊,沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊。那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛。"},{"start":12818.212,"end":12835.665,"text":"那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財政分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你就淋漆秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣喔我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦"},{"start":12837.086,"end":12855.904,"text":"同樣是比較,你考慮一下,環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦,不要跟後面的比啦,對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學,你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟您一樣都是努力向上嘛,不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛,對不對"},{"start":12857.706,"end":12882.218,"text":"總計長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說我們現在跟直轄市比好了你看他現在縣市有一個提案建議縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性"},{"start":12884.139,"end":12904.35,"text":"有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政務委員會所提出的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會發文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝"},{"start":12905.911,"end":12928.309,"text":"那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦"},{"start":12936.116,"end":12949.648,"text":"經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎"},{"start":12957.975,"end":12959.276,"text":"但是我認為並沒有說是因為"},{"start":12973.985,"end":12984.293,"text":"所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多﹖因為是一般縣市編列比較少﹖所以是人口的關係是嗎﹖所以如果是地方縣市﹖所以如果一般的地方縣市﹖那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的﹖他也會可以編列那麼多就對了是嗎﹖"},{"start":12999.684,"end":13023.649,"text":"我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到"},{"start":13026.491,"end":13034.428,"text":"按照這個臺灣來這邊做經驗考察、坐飛機各項費用事實上都超過很多比你們只做bus差很多這個部分請你們也要幫我們檢討好嗎"},{"start":13038.637,"end":13056.382,"text":"舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝謝謝我們陳玉珍委員接下來請我們羅明財羅委員"},{"start":13075.526,"end":13081.61,"text":"主席各位主席各位請主席長我們請主席長主席長你好主席我們看到"},{"start":13091.317,"end":13117.072,"text":"所有的物價萬物齊漲沒有啦現在像電視機就跌到大概7、8%沒有啦這個我們調查有三分之一是下跌電視機不會天天買啊沒有沒有萬物齊漲我家的那個電視機一買快十年了也不會壞那個你是買好的不一樣是買好的沒錯啊可是除了電視機之外"},{"start":13118.052,"end":13132.929,"text":"民生大家常常要吃雞腿便當要吃排骨便當民生用品各方面都一直在漲對那個我跟委員報告一下3月份的話跟2月份比較物價下跌的有132上漲的有191項"},{"start":13138.297,"end":13157.827,"text":"對,你都講少部分下跌的沒有,沒有,一百三十二項的下跌很多啦跟三月跟二月比較你就是電視機嘛還有什麼洗衣機還有啊電冰箱問題那個電冰箱、洗衣機每一台可能都用十幾年、二十年啊不是,處理長因為"},{"start":13162.873,"end":13189.455,"text":"要感受到的就是人民心中的痛對啊,民眾擺第一,國家要至上所以我也很感佩你這幾年來立法院這個字你都背下來了民眾內心的痛苦依然沒有解決我每次都講什麼荷包蛋、茶葉蛋今天就不講那個了"},{"start":13191.021,"end":13204.883,"text":"今天講什麼你要知道茶葉蛋的價格我跟你們報告一下我上次講過了不要再講了對那個全家萊豪富OK茶葉蛋一顆都13塊7-1110塊不過手掌的蛋是18塊對阿那個雞蛋的話散磚的一台金大概30幾塊阿那個盒磚的話不是不是啦對不起散磚的是大概50幾塊盒磚的話大概70塊左右"},{"start":13220.492,"end":13237.092,"text":"主席長你上次的錄音帶掉出來我都歷歷在目所以這個部分今天就不談了今天要談的就是說去年啊稅收又超徵了好幾千億本席一直主張還稅漁民啊現在你要離開了嗎"},{"start":13241.775,"end":13269.633,"text":"我希望我離開因為蔡總統給我派令是到5月19號那新的賴總統有沒有找你談過那個是就是說報紙上都說誰要來接可是從來沒有發布所以讓我好像很尷尬說我要走了我要走了對不對所以你也不能講說你要走可是如果你真的走的話"},{"start":13270.802,"end":13289.798,"text":"我不會走了,我只是站在這裡而已,不會走了。你真的走了,離開這個位置,那你心裡應該想一下你過去的種種嘛,那其實你一直很期待一個最重要的就是像我們來自,我來自"},{"start":13293.221,"end":13320.823,"text":"新北那你統籌分配稅款給我們的該給的都沒給統籌分配稅款是有一定的公式的你可以問你們的財政問新北的財政局長跟那個主計處長他們都知道那個公式而且他們以前就是主管這個的沒有以前主計長大了不得了因為主計長他未有"},{"start":13322.27,"end":13324.111,"text":"主計長這事都要依法的,沒有不能夠任意的。"},{"start":13337.495,"end":13354.11,"text":"依法你手上可以由你自己來決定的權限我從來沒有說決定是因為是要看部會提出來的需求依法從你的這個身上你可以下判斷做決定的大概可以允諾的預算有多少"},{"start":13355.511,"end":13381.486,"text":"這都是我們的預算都是各部會提需求我們去給它排列順序並不是說由我來決定第二預備金有多少?74億過去真的要動用預備金的時候第一個都一定會問主計長那可不可以用?那個有一定的條件要緊急透出情況人災人禍、地震等等重大的災難要符合條件可是"},{"start":13383.925,"end":13392.641,"text":"可是行政機關最重要的還是問那主計長有沒有錢可不可以用還是會尊重你的意見"},{"start":13394.849,"end":13414.635,"text":"當然啦,我應該提供我的專業的意見,說它是不是適合第二預備金的動用的條件。所以主委長我要請教你的一個問題,就是臺北縣升格成為新北市,如果比照臺北市的話,那中央欠新北市欠了多少錢?"},{"start":13415.675,"end":13432.207,"text":"我那個是不能夠是這樣比因為像台北市它有很多那個是什麼勢力的高中高高職那新北市是雖然有可是他是比較少而且那個原來的那個在比較的時候像統籌分配款的話"},{"start":13434.529,"end":13436.17,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":13456.351,"end":13481.021,"text":"新北的這個部分假設十幾年前就是同等直轄市的地位的話累積起來的話應該再補助給新北市多少的預算那個是不能這麼說我們都是依法依標準是自由給的一方面他要看他所謂的對那個財力的貢獻一方面要考慮他的需求"},{"start":13486.483,"end":13493.947,"text":"處長來回答麻煩處長因為我覺得處長每次的數字都比較精準一點不會啦我請那個處長好那請處長回答"},{"start":13499.659,"end":13527.433,"text":"我們以113年度為例我們這個中央的統籌分配稅款和一般性補助款我們是編入了570億如果說是和5百多億沒有全部是多少如果和96年度來比的話是增加了489億元有增加嘛那去年的總數是多少統籌分配稅款幾千億有沒有幾千億四千多億啦"},{"start":13528.393,"end":13544.686,"text":"哇,那還是薑是老的啦,那個處長請回好了啦。你看,講到重點的時候,主計長都會跳出來,其實主計長數字觀念很多,但是有時候,很多事情講重點的你都不談。"},{"start":13546.514,"end":13574.026,"text":"這樣子啦下一次的你這個位置你覺得應該具備什麼樣的條件才是比你好的主計長他比我好外面報紙寫的那個比我好因為他是跟鄭苗紅的主計人我只做8年他是做了快40年跟鄭苗紅這是政治判斷正確嗎"},{"start":13576.068,"end":13576.408,"text":"這樣子啦,處理長反正你"},{"start":13603.832,"end":13627.325,"text":"大家也都會祝福你,不管怎麼樣,常常在這邊碰面你也算是一個和藹可親的人可是你離開這個位置以後,你也是更加海闊天空有沒有人已經開始來徵詢你,或者是找你你都不替我介紹我哪裡有的人那你想要去哪裡啊?你替我介紹我有地方就去"},{"start":13629.687,"end":13639.761,"text":"去賣茶葉蛋不要啦我老了挑不凍茶葉蛋了我是希望主計長你可以用你的所學所能"},{"start":13640.407,"end":13665.14,"text":"多多到民營間去看一看不要啦把你寶貴的經驗分享給下一個接棒的人國防部長說他退休以後是路人甲那我是路人椅在路上碰到路人椅會跟路人甲打招呼因為你平常可能很多的時間都在辦公室吹冷氣我們希望"},{"start":13666.496,"end":13688.521,"text":"有時間有機會比較空閒的時候你可以深入民間的基層多多到萬華龍山市去走一走看一看到每一個市場去走一走看一看還有在哪裡啊在南京東路台大醫院前面"},{"start":13689.369,"end":13716.276,"text":"你去看看有時候你會看到很多琉璃失所的街友很多人在那邊賣口香糖賣玉蘭花希望主計長能把這些真正詳實的社會的情況分享給你的同仁或者建議給未來的主計長讓他了解人民是苦哈哈的"},{"start":13717.662,"end":13736.909,"text":"政府有錢是應該要把錢拿出來還稅於民來照顧所有的窮苦的老百姓跟委員報告一下我們的總預算裡面有百分之二十五、五、六都是花在社會福利上好謝謝因為...謝謝我們羅民財委員謝謝接下來我們請鄭天才委員"},{"start":13747.109,"end":13751.613,"text":"主席、各位委員,有請主計長。我們請主計長。主計長辛苦了。不會啦,委員才辛苦,要上山下海。對,完全正確。還是要先跟主計長謝謝。這個我們看113年,嚴明會所這個原住民族綜合發展基金"},{"start":13775.954,"end":13784.781,"text":"這裏面這個收入裏面了辦理原住民保留地進發補償計劃經費供庫撥補收入這個21億百萬千萬億21億這個非常謝謝但是我還是這個基金基金預算處的處長還有供預算處的處長也請上來"},{"start":13805.357,"end":13805.777,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":13820.209,"end":13837.988,"text":"基金是說擺在那邊可以循環使用公庫是每年這個撥一次如果說如果不要原住民發展基金的話那個是怎麼樣那個基金就不能夠重複使用"},{"start":13838.588,"end":13839.028,"text":"主席主席長"},{"start":13862.728,"end":13891.628,"text":"你們公務員我也是30年公務員我們還是要依法行政我們看預算法第4條第一項第二款我已經跟主計長講過很多次這個條文了對8年前就跟你講過了第一次讓這個處長上來看一下預算法第4條第一項第二款凡經付出人可收回而非用於營業者為作業基金"},{"start":13894.133,"end":13922.703,"text":"顏住民族中華發展基金收支保管及應用辦法第三條本基金為預算法第四條第一項第二款所定的特種基金所以顏民會的中華發展基金的預算書裏面也提到本基金預算法第四條第二項第二款第四目所定凡付出仍可收回建法補償啊"},{"start":13924.594,"end":13925.796,"text":"憲政委員會主席"},{"start":13942.493,"end":13958.382,"text":"這個部分有這樣的一個不同的法律跟那個委員報告一下我們這種基金就是希望他能夠運用能夠回收的所以我們也希望原民會能夠善於運用能夠收回"},{"start":13959.983,"end":13976.056,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":13977.057,"end":13981.301,"text":"一、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":14003.588,"end":14024.067,"text":"午夜新的內閣就要籌編了520之後開始要籌編明年的預算所以必須要依法行政這個是我們公務人員最基本的所以這個部分怎麼去何況反正公務預算也都不像過去不像過去過去都是"},{"start":14028.939,"end":14030.04,"text":"兩位處長誰可以說明這個未來基金基金的處長"},{"start":14056.781,"end":14081.907,"text":"是不是可以協調人民會未來就是從公務預算就好啦好主計長時間到了這個還是要祝福你啦謝謝雖然其實還沒有正式報直接只是報派而已啦對報派而已嘛所以對啊所以你碰到事情就問他們兩個就不問我啦有可能還是你啊謝謝好我們謝謝鄭天才委員接下來我們請楊瓊英楊委員"},{"start":14097.392,"end":14099.033,"text":"金管會黃主委八年來我們的股市翻倍成長"},{"start":14118.522,"end":14138.1,"text":"2020年實施的零股交易就能夠讓國民妥善的理財小資族也可以共同參與去共同投資據證交所所提供給本席的數字顯示在去年零股交易的人數有320萬人"},{"start":14140.302,"end":14142.905,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案1案"},{"start":14168.07,"end":14183.1,"text":"金管會3月18日財政委員會提出的專報針對於精進盤中零股交易制度你也承諾在今年年底會把盤中零股交易錯的時間由一分鐘"},{"start":14184.454,"end":14187.174,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．"},{"start":14215.316,"end":14230.708,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":14230.868,"end":14257.481,"text":"所以本席也特別看在新聞稿當中你們滿意零股交易有助於提供重點在這裡年輕人及小資族的多元參與資本市場的一個管道又讓他們不會比別人買的貴時間又能夠更加的迅速在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":14258.661,"end":14276.457,"text":"你覺得對於我們年輕人的幫助12月2號是不是可以如期的來上是這個去年就規劃了那主要是因為券商跟交易所這邊系統要調整所以才會需要到年底12月12月初是"},{"start":14277.625,"end":14297.574,"text":"那這個當然因為我自己知道我有接到學校與開過座談會那有些做零股的年輕人覺得說為什麼我做零股的交易條件跟整張不一樣他覺得有點有點被差別待遇了對啊所以我們當然因為零股他要1分鐘他5秒鐘他他要比別人買的貴"},{"start":14298.294,"end":14319.229,"text":"我們去年年底就已經把那個那個那個訊息的揭露時間也也縮短了那現在就進一步把把交交交易的這個交割交易的這個時間也也交割的時間也盡量縮短目的就是降低之間的差別公平性嗎?對對沒錯然後也協助年輕人嗎?對小資族大概都年輕人齁所以換句話說我們還是一個結論這個議題12月2號還是會如期的來上路"},{"start":14326.021,"end":14337.44,"text":"會當然我想這邊交易所的先進都在這邊如果我們能夠提前就盡量提前那你要不要幫他們喊話一下我就等著你這一句話他們都有在做啦那我想就應該會提前吧"},{"start":14338.379,"end":14359.892,"text":"我想我們內部再討論一下有沒有可能提前好不好同意提前的請舉手報告委員這個不是要喊話啦這個還是要改系統啦我們盡量努力因為有時間嘛對不對好所以主委在這邊我們主要是一個公平性的一個共同參與也協助年輕人我也希望金管會來作為這些領股的靠山嘛那當然我們這個交易所在這邊其實也是幫助大家"},{"start":14366.856,"end":14381.286,"text":"這個可以說是三全其美接下來本期要跟你討論的就是人頭戶外籍嫌疑犯嫌犯那這個人數逐漸的在成長我們看到2019年查獲的98人去年竟然703人"},{"start":14383.047,"end":14407.335,"text":"那移工涉犯詐欺案也一直在上升前年我們就查獲了569件在這樣的情況之下去年又暴增了一倍1000多件雜熱數字我們是很難過的那在這樣的情況之下我們又看到黑數太多了依照勞動部的資料去年移工突破了75萬3千人有預期的是8萬6千人失聯"},{"start":14412.117,"end":14433.447,"text":"這一些人找不到8萬6千人所以在這個人頭供應大戶請教主委依據警方的研判有人力中介公司呢瞄準了移工來收部賣給這個詐騙集團來賺錢那麼我們金管會你要如何的將移工的人頭戶攀升的這個問題要怎麼應對我很緊張欸"},{"start":14436.288,"end":14466.288,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":14467.149,"end":14493.272,"text":"所以主委一個結論我們看到這個數字其實他說失聯了8萬6千人這是險性隱性還不知道所以在這樣子的情況之下如果隱性加上去那更恐怖所以我們還是要自己有方案應對我心裡去研擬怎麼樣不要讓這些的黑戶就直接成為人頭賬戶那這個是讓我們民眾會苦不堪言"},{"start":14493.792,"end":14508.505,"text":"好不好你把研你的方案研討有一個有一個初步方案我把我們現在對於您關切這個移工的部分如何防止他成為人頭帳戶我們做的做法您可能採取的措施我們您一個報告給您可以嗎"},{"start":14508.945,"end":14512.246,"text":"接下來我們請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在接下來請曾嘉賓委員"},{"start":14541.215,"end":14556.102,"text":"主席、財黨委員先進、政府機關首長官員、會長公共夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請主計總處朱主計長還有我們金管會的黃竹偉以及政企局的張局長和財政部處參司的張副司長有請委員長"},{"start":14560.7,"end":14584.389,"text":"主席長好、主委好、局長好、副市長好來我首先請教一下張局長那麼我們看到今天雖然是在統投信固法和不動產證券化條例但是我們關心的當然也包括主席總書的預算解凍我們關心的是說現在民間的投資情況怎麼樣譬如說有兩款新款的ETF聯手募資超過2000億局長你覺得這個好事嗎"},{"start":14588.23,"end":14591.534,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。breviation"},{"start":14597.646,"end":14617.95,"text":"當然當然所以就這個角度來講其實證券化在證券市場上是一個鼓勵我們國人在證券市場裡面透過共同投資共同分享利益這是一個我們證券市場存在的目的嘛是不是是的好那請問主計長你認為目前有這麼多錢參與是不是表示台灣我們的鈔額持續儲蓄或民間的資金向上充沛"},{"start":14619.256,"end":14638.308,"text":"是的那我們是不是要幫他找個一個出口最好有好那接下來我要請到黃主委其實今天我們要討論的投信固法或不動產證券化條例就是我們有一個想法就希望把公共設施不動產證券化的收銀的全民共享簡單講過去我們的公共設施比如說台智光的光纜我們發報給財團"},{"start":14640.589,"end":14640.729,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":14658.755,"end":14677.05,"text":"我一直都是支持很好所以我們來看一下它背後的運作原理以前我們只有把類似像商辦想到說商辦證券化之後它就可以有收益但現在我們把這個公共設施也納入了不動產證券化之後呢它的收益就是來自於大眾的使用跟消費是不是這樣"},{"start":14678.138,"end":14697.036,"text":"是的好那往下看那我們來看一下其實當我們將公共設施做為不動產證券化之後有一個四大互助的情況年輕人有工作收入有主動收入他有消費能力但他沒有什麼資產但是呢透過他使用的公共設施包括捷運包括高鐵包括這些假的這些公共設施是變成不動產"},{"start":14697.737,"end":14697.997,"text":"案2案3案4案5案6"},{"start":14715.04,"end":14730.262,"text":"是委員分析非常清楚好謝謝那我們來看一下先到一個案子叫台智光很多人都搞不清楚台智光在台北是發生了什麼事情他其實某個稱號有人說是BOT其實有人說是PPP其實呢我們如果以同樣的其他地方六都來看"},{"start":14730.783,"end":14744.131,"text":"以台南市的規模和它提供的傳輸速度以它自建它的費率大概700到800我們來換算成台治光案如果台北市的台治光案用台南的費率800來算的話它大概每年可以收費收入大概1.52億"},{"start":14746.452,"end":14747.393,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":14766.155,"end":14767.516,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":14786.169,"end":14810.717,"text":"我想大家都會跟定存去比啦那如果比定存高當然都會有一些吸引力啦很好就是比定存高的可能投資大眾就會有興趣往下看所以不動產證券化可以避免利益輸送給特定人士透過不動產公共生產不動產證券化創造收益它不進財團口袋它能夠讓全民構想所以呢這個就是我們推動不動產證券化還有包括公共生產證券化的一個情況好往下看"},{"start":14811.317,"end":14838.187,"text":"那如果未來不動產證券化是不是能夠解決類似像被社會懷疑的臺之光這種圖利財產那種弊案有沒有可能解決?那我剛剛的說法就是說我認為未來政府他所需要的公共設施用PPB的方式如果能夠再加上公共設施的不動產證券化的話那就可以將我們民眾的消費所產生的利益回饋到投資的民眾的身上繼續看"},{"start":14839.298,"end":14863.56,"text":"那我們來看一下我們的投信固法當中19條之3這是院版的部分不得投資於住宅法第3條第一款所定之住宅而且要在相關權利要在取得建造之後才能夠動用那住宅法第3條你提說必須具備門牌的合法監護我的問題在這裡了請問取得建造後能動用該資金的款項該資金的款項能否用為償還土地融資目前的法條有沒有規定"},{"start":14865.151,"end":14886.903,"text":"這個我現在沒辦法,也許委員可以指導我,對好,那另外下一題齁那如果說我們以這個此案,主席再一點時間齁如果這個此案,我們以這個案子來講齁有的一個開發案呢,它一二樓的店面可以公共使用三到四樓是住宅,一二樓可以租住,可以收益用此案來講,不動產投資信託基金可不可以投資或運用在一二樓的店面,有沒有規範"},{"start":14887.583,"end":14888.884,"text":"規範是單獨投資於A棟或B棟或飯店,目前的法律有沒有規範?"},{"start":14915.909,"end":14917.83,"text":"目前的法條有沒有規定?目前是沒有啦"},{"start":14936.016,"end":14950.302,"text":"所以今天我們要審這個條文我希望現在主席的通融請今晚會在這個法條研議將不動產投資信託資不動產信託基金投資或運用於住商混合大樓這樣的規範3個月內提出書面報告可以嗎"},{"start":14953.308,"end":14980.445,"text":"好,我們努力,我們去處理好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝主計長,謝謝局長,謝謝我們副市長謝謝,謝謝我們中江比委員,謝謝接下來我們請謝一鋒委員,謝一鋒委員,謝一鋒委員,不在下一位張家駿委員,張家駿委員,張家駿委員,不在下一位林柱英委員,林柱英委員,林柱英委員,不在下一位黃國昌委員,黃國昌委員,黃國昌委員,不在好好好,沒有看到你,不好意思"},{"start":14991.597,"end":15010.903,"text":"來,現在主席了,我們來有請審計長。請審計長。欸,審計長已經回去了嗎?審計長回去了。他走了?對對對。我們。啊?走了?對對對。那今天審計部有人在嗎?全部都走了?早上報告案結束之後,他們就先離開了。什麼會有這種事?"},{"start":15023.264,"end":15035.612,"text":"所以所有審計部的人都走了現場還有審計部的嗎那沒有審計部那黃委員要繼續持續下去嗎我今天請主席排成審計部的人"},{"start":15051.092,"end":15052.093,"text":"今天登記發言的委員呢?"},{"start":15074.505,"end":15096.957,"text":"都已經詢答完畢現在審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算行政院主計總處．管預算解凍案書面報告3案請問各位委員有無異議沒有異議,好,通過審查完畢主席通知提報院會接下來來處理臨時提案共議案,我們請議事人員宣讀有鑒於近年來融資租賃業者業務大幅擴張"},{"start":15105.071,"end":15127.788,"text":"融資租賃業者客戶眾多且融資租賃業所提供之服務已有金融服務之處刑以致融資租賃業者間有成為我國最大影子銀行之趨勢為確保融資租賃業者之業務不致影響我國金融秩序穩定且為確保融資租賃業者客戶之權益可得妥善保障"},{"start":15128.368,"end":15147.027,"text":"原提案要求金管會因爲一個月內擬拒融資租賃業專法並就專法擬拒經過致本院財政委員會進行專題報告提案人黃珊珊、王世堅、王宏威宣讀完畢那請問金管會有沒有意見來請說明一下"},{"start":15154.758,"end":15174.514,"text":"8號主席那昨天有跟委員請示過是不是可以修改幾個字就是在最後第二行開始要求金管會應於一個月內然後你去拿掉一個月內就是否制定融資公司融資租賃業專法然後"},{"start":15178.647,"end":15188.059,"text":"刪掉逗號並就專法這五個字拟據書面報告以上請問一下提案委員有沒有意見"},{"start":15190.984,"end":15192.205,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":15212.8,"end":15227.852,"text":"記者會他們也提了民間的版本所以我們也希望說他一個月內雖然是提書面報告還是要朝向由行政部門提出專法的方向來做研擬好那我們請金管會參照我們提案委員的意見來請王世堅王委員"},{"start":15232.13,"end":15259.22,"text":"那個經過會其實我跟黃勝山委員我們提這樣子的臨時提案其實都已經為時已晚了這些租賃業者尤其這三大租賃怪獸那他們金額之龐大對我們社會影響之深入對青年朋友的強害之大"},{"start":15260.826,"end":15278.851,"text":"這個我認為現在都已經對他們快收斂不住了所以照說啊照說這個租賃專業法早就應該要通過啦所以你現在跟我們修訂說就是否制定融資租賃業專法"},{"start":15282.657,"end":15308.309,"text":"你只是答應答覆我們說要不要該不該制定我認為沒有不該的啦所以是不是既然你只針對要不要我認為就是要所以是不是改成就應制定融資租賃專業法你去書面報告好不好沒有否的啦"},{"start":15309.517,"end":15337.402,"text":"沒有應不應了啦就是應該但是這麼短時間內要你針對融資專業這個來提出一些專法的話可能時序上有困難時間上太短但是應該我們的結論就是應該要立就對好不好主席這是我的建議那經國會是不是要再做個說明請主委來做個說明"},{"start":15342.457,"end":15355.282,"text":"非常感謝黃委員的指導,因為黃委員剛才也提過因為我現在的位階比較尷尬啦所以我這邊如果照您垂詢的父親加一個肯定句的話因為我指導520"},{"start":15357.623,"end":15358.924,"text":"規定中華民國113年度中央政府總預算規定"},{"start":15377.984,"end":15395.339,"text":"主席這樣我做一個簡單的修正因為剛剛王世堅本人還有金管會的意見我們就都不要講是否或因了就制定仁資諸利業專法提出書面報告也就是說沒有因或不因或否或沒有但是"},{"start":15395.959,"end":15416.334,"text":"因為民間團體我要講強調的是本院委員已經都寫好我已經寫好了下禮拜就會送院那第二個民間團體的版本也出來也有很多委員會參考我們也希望說你就本院的委員所提然後民間團體所提其實你們一定可以是找朝出方向就剛剛其實很多委員質詢的都一樣嘛"},{"start":15417.194,"end":15423.439,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":15447.578,"end":15468.368,"text":"那我再把這個最後修正文字我再說明一次就是提案要求金管會因於一個月內就制定融資租賃業專法提出書面報告這樣子可以嗎好那我們就按這個照協商結論修正通過"},{"start":15472.563,"end":15492.435,"text":"本次會議做如下決議一、報告說明及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定三、委員嚴寬恆、林楚英所提書面質詢列入記錄、刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆"},{"start":15495.016,"end":15514.43,"text":"四、針對中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案處理情形：行政院主計總處預算解凍案18案第二預備金預算解凍案1案及審計部預算解凍案11案均處理完均準與動之提報院會請問各位委員針對以上決議有無異議"},{"start":15516.172,"end":15527.755,"text":"沒有異議就通過第五,證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案等三案及不動產正確化條例部分條文修正草案一案"},{"start":15529.016,"end":15550.575,"text":"令則其繼續審查請問各位委員對以上決議有無異議沒有異議通過第11本次會議議程已進行完畢常有不在場委員補題書面質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理那今天會議到此為止我們散會謝謝我們所有的行政部門官員謝謝我們所有的委員謝謝"},{"start":15572.231,"end":15572.493,"text":"報告結束"}]}},{"id":"151487","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151487","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a7e256b9bd32a1fb08f91a493cf5f034f81d0e85270258c97dbd6e8948d10ae9d60c73881cc9b1c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯建銘","委員發言時間":"10:20:00 - 10:22:10","影片長度":"00:02:10","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-04-18","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"duration":130,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:22:10+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:20:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.5959687500000004,"end":3.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.03034375,"end":5.6334687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.03846875,"end":8.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.83971875,"end":12.012218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.349718750000001,"end":13.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.919093750000002,"end":16.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.73721875,"end":21.715343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.559093750000002,"end":24.145343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.140968750000003,"end":28.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.089718750000003,"end":35.721593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.970343750000005,"end":39.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.51409375,"end":41.509718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.94846875,"end":43.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.040968750000005,"end":44.985968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.45846875,"end":47.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.97284375,"end":49.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.554718750000006,"end":56.697218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.18659375,"end":58.485968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.025968750000004,"end":59.954093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.56159375,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.12221875,"end":65.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.65784375,"end":68.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.47159375000001,"end":69.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.16346875,"end":80.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.87909375000001,"end":83.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.41034375000001,"end":86.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.95409375,"end":88.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.78909375,"end":91.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.53971875,"end":94.54784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.17221875,"end":98.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.07034375,"end":99.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.62284375,"end":104.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.92596875000001,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.55846875,"end":112.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.84034375,"end":115.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.63721875,"end":117.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.32471875,"end":121.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.60221875,"end":126.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.12909375,"end":130.05284375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.642,"end":27.556,"text":"待會進行程序的進行我們絕對不反對不管提案說明乃至於行答但是在這裡我要點出一個問題記得禮拜一我在講話的時候有講過一句話叫藝術則不打我們眼睜睜看你怎麼演剛才省法院委員就點出核心的問題了"},{"start":29.164,"end":42.869,"text":"第二個立法院委員會在審查的時候要出委會都要每一個關卡都是合法的而且是有一節的都要表決的我們有異議你不管"},{"start":44.376,"end":67.704,"text":"這中間我要告訴國民黨委員要告訴民進黨委員上個禮拜一讓強行出委員會的議事程序法案全部合讀書讀國的理論都可以廢棄的這是留下一個將來大家正面的焦點然後這個時間告訴各位我們過去不管怎麼樣人事都是少數"},{"start":69.52,"end":87.557,"text":"在衝突中沒有辦法順利審議的時候,在所有人圍到底下,主席要意思得言即便再怎麼困難也要把每個關卡經過程序、表決、意義都要講完才可以出委員會。"},{"start":89.83,"end":116.697,"text":"我記憶中最有名的一個案子,會計法修正國務教會。上回去我們在審查的時候,趙惠水、趙惠世、郭國文。但是呢,在審查的時候,他沒有把整個程序完整呈現,我們認了,重新再來。你認為這樣的行為,你認為走得過去,未來在朝野鄉,未來因為我們的挑戰嗎?欲速則不達。"},{"start":118.379,"end":129.829,"text":"不要以為你們這樣一輪壓下去,我就眼睜睜看你們怎麼弄這問題請好好思考一下好,謝謝我們柯總召的訪問"}]}},{"id":"151486","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151486","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a7e256b9bd32a1fbf53c44fddbc1e694f81d0e85270258c97dbd6e8948d10ae99af2e74e98a9ffb35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"10:15:08 - 10:17:39","影片長度":"00:02:31","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","date":"2024-04-18","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"duration":151,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:17:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:15:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.48659375000000005,"end":0.6215937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.3209687500000005,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.434093750000002,"end":21.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.47909375,"end":32.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.95409375,"end":34.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.080343750000004,"end":44.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.665343750000005,"end":47.095343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.314718750000004,"end":55.650968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.20784375,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.924093750000004,"end":71.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.49659375,"end":76.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.86284375000001,"end":83.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.56221875,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.54909375000001,"end":88.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.94534375,"end":92.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.01221875,"end":102.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.27221875000001,"end":121.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.48034375,"end":128.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.32721875000001,"end":133.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.27596875,"end":141.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.46846875,"end":151.16346875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.049,"text":"委員長"},{"start":7.641,"end":34.196,"text":"好,什麼樣會議詢問謝謝齁所以兩分...我應該不需要兩分鐘那麼久齁那我只是先回應一下齁今天最主要有這個為什麼我們今天要去討論這個的議題齁在這個之前我先回應一下吳宗憲委員齁不過他走出去了齁就是說第一個齁就是今天到底齁那一天為什麼是沒有經過實質的討論然後也沒有經過表決然後就全部保留這的確是一個程序的問題所以當時我們提出要譴責嘛"},{"start":35.417,"end":61.811,"text":"吳宗憲、趙偉那時候的主張是說因為怎樣有紀律委員會我在這邊再念一次立法委員的這個行為法本章所稱的這個叫利益迴避指的是立法委員行使職權不當增加本人或其關係人金錢、物品或其他財產我再念一次指立法委員行使職權不當增加其本人或關係人金錢、物品或其他財產"},{"start":62.992,"end":91.374,"text":"我就問吳宗憲、趙薇那一天你在程序上所做的不當的財事是增加了你的金錢上的不當的財產嗎?是利益迴避事項嗎?不是啊!它是整體迴避問題啊!那為什麼要用紀律委員會?如果你自己覺得有金錢上的問題用紀律委員會那我當然很歡迎啊再來就是紀律委員會是要用主席財事你那天就是主席啊!當時設計這個法條的時候根本就沒有把你這個狀況放進來嘛"},{"start":93.095,"end":120.899,"text":"所以到底是誰沒有在念法律這件事情我覺得是值得商榷的或許這可能也不是法律的問題這是到底有沒有中文程度的問題那第二個我要講的是今天不斷的我們要實質討論這件事情今天提出的是到底有沒有重複我們講形式跟實質形式上總共24條文今天條號上只有12個重複那另外12個沒有重複的那怎麼會是重複討論呢這是第一個"},{"start":121.599,"end":136.225,"text":"第二條是按照目前的法規如果說你今天有重複討論指的是你前面已經實質討論了嗎我們前幾天有沒有做任何的實質討論沒有啊七個小時我總共只發言七分鐘這怎麼會是一個實質討論呢所以這完全不符合所謂的重複表決謝謝好 謝謝我們沈委員的確我們本委員會目前本席主持之下並沒有重複審查的問題那也謝謝剛剛"}]}},{"id":"151476","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151476","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4450089c46154057994f81d0e85270258c969063a50fc5aee0703e613f7b702dda25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯建銘","委員發言時間":"14:32:12 - 14:39:39","影片長度":"00:07:27","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":447,"end_time":"2024-04-18T14:39:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T14:32:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"type":"Clip","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.4397187500000004,"end":3.9797187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.68846875,"end":5.650343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.37596875,"end":8.535968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.04221875,"end":10.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.45534375,"end":13.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.84721875,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.294093750000002,"end":19.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.63971875,"end":21.563468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.67721875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.95346875,"end":40.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.087843750000005,"end":42.134093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.775343750000005,"end":43.619093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.37846875,"end":44.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.407843750000005,"end":46.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.095343750000005,"end":47.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.86721875,"end":50.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.92596875,"end":54.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.469718750000006,"end":60.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.96659375,"end":62.704718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.97471875,"end":65.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.29909375,"end":68.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.03284375,"end":71.37846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.74971875,"end":73.08284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.89284375000001,"end":74.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.37784375000001,"end":76.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.21721875,"end":78.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.46159375,"end":80.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.31784375000001,"end":83.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.62534375,"end":87.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.57846875,"end":91.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.49346875,"end":92.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.43846875000001,"end":92.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.07971875000001,"end":96.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.09596875000001,"end":98.36159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.01971875000001,"end":102.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.59721875000001,"end":104.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.78659375000001,"end":114.59534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.05096875000001,"end":126.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.31909375000001,"end":128.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.49596875,"end":130.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.18346875,"end":132.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.31409375,"end":136.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.80284375000002,"end":141.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.13534375,"end":145.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.03346875,"end":150.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.38284375,"end":155.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.73659375,"end":159.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.15784375,"end":161.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.82846875,"end":168.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.59534375,"end":170.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.36284375000002,"end":174.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.11346875,"end":174.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.97409375,"end":176.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.55596875,"end":178.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.12534375,"end":186.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.76971875,"end":189.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.14471875,"end":193.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.14409375000002,"end":195.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.11846875,"end":197.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.62034375000002,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.85534375,"end":213.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.56284375,"end":217.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.85346875000002,"end":223.62471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.16471875000002,"end":225.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.20659375000002,"end":226.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.60721875000002,"end":232.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.51784375000003,"end":234.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.03221875000003,"end":237.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.96846875000003,"end":239.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.02721875,"end":241.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.57971875,"end":243.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.09409375,"end":251.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.95784375000002,"end":255.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.95721875,"end":258.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.75846875,"end":262.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.51721875000004,"end":265.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.62659375000004,"end":267.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.34346875,"end":271.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.03909375,"end":272.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.25409375000004,"end":274.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.41409375,"end":276.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.52346875,"end":277.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.41784375000003,"end":279.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.22346875,"end":283.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.08784375,"end":287.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.17159375,"end":293.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.12846875,"end":297.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.71846875,"end":299.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.28784375000004,"end":303.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.87784375,"end":308.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.82659375000003,"end":311.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.10471875,"end":316.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.12909375000004,"end":320.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.82471875000005,"end":321.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.75284375,"end":323.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.01409375000003,"end":325.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.24159375,"end":326.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.40596875,"end":327.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.04721875,"end":328.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.16096875,"end":337.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.85159375,"end":339.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.38721875000005,"end":340.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.46284375000005,"end":346.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.57596875,"end":347.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.60096875000005,"end":349.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.47409375,"end":351.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.97596875000005,"end":352.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.93784375,"end":353.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.11909375000005,"end":355.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.19471875000005,"end":356.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.22409375,"end":358.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.36721875,"end":359.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.58221875000004,"end":363.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.04159375,"end":366.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.73721875,"end":369.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.98159375,"end":370.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.29784375,"end":378.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.61721875,"end":387.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.97034375000004,"end":388.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.10096875000005,"end":390.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.82221875000005,"end":391.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.88534375,"end":392.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.72471875,"end":394.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.20971875000004,"end":396.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.47096875000005,"end":398.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.31034375,"end":400.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.48284375000003,"end":403.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.26721875000004,"end":405.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.82409375000003,"end":411.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.18596875000003,"end":413.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.63721875000005,"end":414.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.12221875,"end":415.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.10096875000005,"end":417.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.31159375000004,"end":419.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.74596875000003,"end":421.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.73721875,"end":422.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.78346875000005,"end":426.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.99784375,"end":429.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.92159375,"end":431.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.71034375000005,"end":432.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.79034375000003,"end":435.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.72659375,"end":437.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.69659375000003,"end":439.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.35471875,"end":439.62471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.01659375,"end":444.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.63221875000005,"end":446.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.66596875000005,"end":446.72909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.45,"end":20.918,"text":"主席、各位委員同仁我認為站在這邊當然比較習慣我比較習慣正面看著副總召、看著國民黨委員早上發生一個插曲因為坐在那裡、站在那裡那黃國昌在我前面講話"},{"start":22.708,"end":35.68,"text":"他說大家要準手時間,時間到要停止,結果他也是也拖了一點時間。他說我執行時間針對我,我也有一些指正,但是我要回答的時候他卻不在,很可惜。"},{"start":37.011,"end":60.152,"text":"那我在執行的時候我曾經講過,我想就控制時間,不要給他多嘴。但是,好,來講剛才記者誤我,早上又電視誤報,所以我實行到一半從來看不見,沒有那回事。是因為我得到防班,有防班的時候,因為防班的有特徵就是看眼看不清楚。"},{"start":61.013,"end":82.66,"text":"但是看鏡看得很清楚所以我不想站在這時候不想讓人家收賊所以我會停下來問說時間到了嗎這是先講但是我要告訴各位航班的病人我的航班沒有錯看也看不清楚但是看鏡齁"},{"start":84.673,"end":103.429,"text":"看法案是明察秋毫、獨居會員。十五個人版本匪性斷證部分一秒就得罩。這是我現在自己新年出來因為業務仿辦的另外我告訴各位因為是不是要去看一下CIA情報員的獨居處"},{"start":106.034,"end":127.667,"text":"因為這樣我訓練很獨心術,所以吳文綺一個急動、一個笑、一瓶一笑,我黃國昌講話以氣大小、自恃,馬上知道後面是要什麼結果,是要給他黑眼睛還是待會要發動偷襲,還是要善恢同意。這一點我先說明不要傻笑好不好。回歸正戰。"},{"start":129.777,"end":145.167,"text":"國會改革方案大家要知道我們希望在立法院裡面能夠在委會好好審查過去審查一年多但是有的不能用我們就沒有公司就會處理今天我們還是一樣同樣立場在看待這個事情"},{"start":146.067,"end":160.736,"text":"但是我很遺憾我們在最近從立法院二月二十號開議到今天我們看到整個國家的軸線都很傾斜的、都扭曲了。這國家在呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼呼"},{"start":161.874,"end":185.252,"text":"莫此違憲。」莫此違憲不管修憲要修憲成績的東西搞成修法乃至於提特別條例特別法一個人又提了兩照不勝為大所以這些都是違反違反憲法的所以大家要冷靜一下違憲的任何措施、幾項提案到最後這邊還是違憲"},{"start":186.823,"end":213.28,"text":"那今天我在這裡也要當早上有這個吳宗憲委員對我本人提出一些指證我早上在這個地方也講過有關於這次最重要是五八五事件結果二十年來立法院不敢修正我們這次真的面對五八五事件那其他的其實坦白講以這種衍生出來藐視國會罪等等刑法疑似疑等等都是違憲的"},{"start":214.622,"end":237.403,"text":"因為吳鮑思的時候,吳鮑思寫得很清楚,他就說可以處以罰盤的強制手段,就像法治那樣,不知道怎麼過啦。但是吳宗憲的版本是寫,和王宗憲是一樣,差不多。但是吳宗憲委員,你不要忘記,你連署軍方黨本,你都有連署。"},{"start":238.044,"end":261.971,"text":"判決要說你是一個人幾人挑的那種心?對你是哪一個吳宗憲?是和國民黨靠攏吳宗憲?還是獨立行使執行吳宗憲?當然是當問題出現的時候你馬上已經馬上效忠所以這個是我對吳宗憲委員的有一種期待以及落差所以吳宗憲委員講說我委員很爽聽"},{"start":268.376,"end":292.883,"text":"我說趙永元班人連總統都要抓去關沒有錯但是呢我告訴各位2012年的時候九月六日針針的時候那個羅志祥這有影響嗎我告滿一九我們都知道總統在憲法上保障不受刑事訴求那一年我告滿一九黃世民等報告江玉華後來最後江玉華"},{"start":294.195,"end":320.094,"text":"那年臺北市地研室檢察長叫...檢察長齁...呃...周...呃...檢察長...蕙玉文給我現在...對不起我老...差點忘記媽媽名字齁...說總統不受刑事訴求。檢...卸任以後...卸任以後立行偵辦。對不起啦馬英九卸任以後就起訴了。我在懷疑你對上他。齁...所以我當然知道齁..."},{"start":322.295,"end":334.565,"text":"這個總統不是所有刑事處罪喔?當然是要總統一降呢?一降嗎?歐小英委員的版本刑法一十一明明不是只有國會改革還有刑法還有婦人契業刑也是國會罪"},{"start":337.908,"end":355.244,"text":"一、自行的審與稀有陳述不提供集結提供資料或藐視國會之前,刑法一十一三年以下。當然吳宗謙沒有這樣提,但是吳翔也有連署。"},{"start":357.868,"end":378.767,"text":"國會調查卿、調查卿的所有稀罪陳述都是三年以下有期徒刑,或一科法定三十半。這不是代表所有人都可能因為你行使國會這個特殊的權利,國會特權主政特殊的權利,違憲端正,權利是分立的。"},{"start":379.688,"end":400.105,"text":"檢察官扮演檢察官,法官扮演法官你這樣一下子把它寫出來,本來司法院不知道怎麼回答法務部不知道怎麼回答這不是毀憲亂真嗎?你還寫到行政院長總之有時候有枯萎陳述一年以下並易割法金什麼叫枯萎陳述?"},{"start":405.345,"end":416.768,"text":"所以這樣一個法又不寧願信,而且脫逸整個法律學以及憲法規定,這種版本咱們出了台的嗎?"},{"start":418.379,"end":430.627,"text":"然後反執行也有刑責各位今天我們在審查這個時候好不容易20年以後我們開始面對國會調選的問題請各位不要恣意擴展違憲端端歷史會幫你們編輸的好不好不要再笑了好謝謝柯總召的發言"}]}},{"id":"151475","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151475","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445391d290ec6ef66f057f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c945bdf70add8e932595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:27:41 - 09:37:35","影片長度":"00:09:54","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":594,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:37:35+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:27:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":95,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時27分）謝謝召委，我們有請次長還有鄭署長。"],["主席：好，我們請次長跟署長，謝謝。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["萬委員美玲：次長，我建議你今天會後回去要把今天的質詢帶子調出來，尤其是剛才洪孟楷委員的那一段，你看他那個兩手一攤、滿臉嬉笑，我覺得不可思議耶！真的非常不可思議，你回去看！你回去看一看你剛剛的回答，對不對？什麼叫做體育發展部？4月3號的時候，本席質詢署長，那時候就說完全還沒有開始，我們希望能夠快，但你今天給了一個更驚人的答案「等新政府」，所以是怎樣？現在是白領薪水，是不是？大家都不要做事了，就等520、等新政府，怎麼有這種回答？而且這種回答你放在心裡就算了，還大喇喇在這個委員會備詢的時候講說，我們等新政府。等新政府！你吃飯的時候要不要等新政府上來再繼續吃飯？這種回答真的非常不好，還兩手一攤、滿臉嬉笑，我真的覺得要檢討啦！","你看，我相信這是一個非常重要的政策，但並不是我們現在在委員會才提出來要你馬上做，這是你們賴清德準總統的政見耶！而且這是所有體育界的人大家殷切的盼望，過去一點準備都沒有嗎？一點概念都沒有嗎？都沒有開會過嗎？還等新政府咧！那你這兩個月的薪水要不要領啊？還等新政府！我真的覺得要深深地回去檢討一下。","再來，剛剛我們說到了這個體育發展部，本席認為今天會後，真的不要再去等新政府了，研議一下。研議有這麼困難嗎？對不對？你至少要研議出一個方向，找到困難點、窒礙難行的地方是什麼，等到你所謂新政府上來的時候，我們是不是可以更快地進入狀況？次長跟署長能不能夠答應我們的這個要求？本席要求，會後來做個研議，來瞭解看看體育發展部應該怎麼做，要有一個開始，可以嗎？我們只要求一個開始。"],["劉次長孟奇：好，我們會後再來研議。"],["萬委員美玲：好，會後也請署長就多久的時間研議，可以跟本席辦公室、跟教育及文化委員會的所有委員做個報告。不是要一個成果，但是我們希望有一個藍圖，也希望知道困難點在哪裡，我們把所有的問題找出來，大家共同來解決，需要多久的時間？"],["劉次長孟奇：是不是給我們兩個月的時間，我們會把相關的研議報告送到委員辦公室？"],["萬委員美玲：一個月。"],["劉次長孟奇：我們儘量來努力。"],["萬委員美玲：一個月的時間，可以嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：好，我們儘量努力。"],["萬委員美玲：好。","接下來，跟體育一樣有關係，我直接問署長好了，我想巴黎帕運即將要在今年的8月28日到9月8日來舉行，我們看到帕運選手的最高獎金400萬，奧運選手奪得金牌的獎金是2,000萬，其實我覺得這個都是一個非常大的鼓勵性質，我們都希望能往上加，但是我們看到帕運奪金的獎金與奧運奪金的獎金相差了5倍之多，這個數字其實我真的覺得不能接受！再來，我們再看到亞帕運的獎金，亞運選手奪金牌的獎金300萬，但是亞帕運的只有38萬，這差了也快要10倍。","我不太理解為什麼要有這麼大的差距，即便你有一千萬個理由認為應該有一個差距，但我覺得這個差距過大，這是第一個。第二個部分，我們要知道，其實一般選手在為國爭光的過程，訓練當中，他要付出非常非常多的努力，才有辦法奪金奪銀，帕運的選手其實更辛苦，我不理解，當他們這麼辛苦克服掉他們肢體上的困難之後得到了金牌、銀牌、好的成績，而我們給他的獎勵金卻是這麼的低，為什麼？這是第一點；第二點，我們是不是可以儘速、儘快的研議把帕運選手及亞帕運選手奪金的獎金拉高一些，這個署長可以做得到嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這個部分我們其實已經正在研議當中。跟委員報告，在全世界針對帕運選手的獎金部分，除了200萬以下的國家之外，如果在200萬以上，目前比我們高的是新加坡及馬來西亞，幾個國家的邏輯大概就是我們奧運的參賽人數大概是15,000人，所以大概有三十二分之一的人可以拿到金牌，帕運的部分，大概有八分之一的人可以拿到金牌，所以各個國家的獎金係數差距大概是4倍左右。因為這樣子，所以我們也決定把400萬拉到500萬，並且我們也希望研議看看能不能讓金牌選手從500萬轉成月退，月退大概是25,000到30,000之間，這樣的激勵，教練的獎金部分也是有double上去，規劃到70萬，這個部分我們正在努力，當然這需要我們國光獎章的委員會再進一步開會來確認。"],["萬委員美玲：亞帕運呢？"],["鄭署長世忠：也是一樣，就整體的提升。"],["萬委員美玲：你剛剛的意思是我們現在可以把400萬提升到500萬，這是確定的嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：就是需要經過委員會的會議，我們現在只是有這樣的初步草案而已。"],["萬委員美玲：一個規劃，好。亞帕運的部分，這38萬可以再提高嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：對，就是整體都往上。"],["萬委員美玲：整體往上……"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["萬委員美玲：好。署長，我覺得要跟你交換一個想法，您剛剛是說，世界各國這樣看起來，我們還是屬於前面的，就是按照比例給我們奧運選手或是帕運選手的獎金，再來，亞帕運和帕運，我們其實是按照比例這樣在算，但是我還是要講，帕運和亞帕運完全按照比例這件事情，我覺得有一點不太對，也有一點沒有去考慮到選手的實際狀況，所以我認為這個比例上面事實上是可以再提高一些，我們希望如果這一次我們已經在計畫把帕運金牌選手的獎金400萬提升，其實本席也算過，我覺得合理的提升朝600萬來邁進，另外，亞帕運的部分，這個38萬真的太低了，真的非常非常低！10倍之差，我們希望，如果奧運的部分和帕運的部分是相差5倍的話，是不是亞運和亞帕運也可以朝5倍的方向去努力，好不好？會後我希望朝這個方向來做。","我覺得今天我們希望升格為體育發展部或者是我們希望把這個獎勵金提高都是對於運動的鼓勵、對於選手的鼓勵，所以在這個部分其實不能吝嗇，而且要加快腳步，這樣好不好？","再來，署長，一樣，一個小問題，但是是大事情，也就是我看到巴黎奧運進入倒數100天了，您大概是要信心喊話或是要鼓勵他們吧！有提到現在的選手、教練都已經不是單槍匹馬的在奮鬥了，國訓中心、體育署都會做他們的後盾，相信這個成績一定會比上一屆東京奧運更好一些。上一屆東京奧運是最佳的成績了，2金4銀6銅，這一次說我們的成績會比上一屆好，是信心喊話，還是有什麼依據？本席想要瞭解一下。"],["鄭署長世忠：目前先信心喊話，因為我們……"],["萬委員美玲：信心喊話，好，有信心也是非常的重要，但是有時候不要轉換成壓力，我相信國手其實都會非常的努力，好不好？","但是他們現在要去法國，我還是再講，我想法國的氣候現在是熱浪真的非常嚴重，在4月3日我的臨時提案就有提到要注意這件事情，體育署應該要比照外國的代表隊，趕快租或者是買移動式的水冷氣、降溫的設備，趕快來處理，但您提到了一個問題，現在我們已經租借了50臺移動式的水冷氣，但是有噪音，有了噪音可能會影響他們的睡眠，影響睡眠可能會影響賽事的成績。我不理解這個很難克服嗎？再者，你說你要先去買幾臺，到底現在是買還是租？這雖然是一個小問題，但是非常嚴重，要怎麼處理？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，的確，因為那個廠牌只有法國有賣，所以說實在的我們真的不知道它會不會有噪音，依照我們臺灣目前水冷的一些產品，噪音其實不大，但是我們還是擔心，所以我們還是很仔細，我們希望從法國進口幾臺回來先測試看看，這個部分也是讓選手們有一些適應，但是我們其實也是有其他的配套，比方如果我們要奪牌的選手真的臨時被噪音干擾或是沒辦法睡，我們就安排到外面的旅館。"],["萬委員美玲：好，署長，我想這些相關的細節對於出賽的國手來說非常的重要，要多加注意。","最後，30秒的時間，次長，我們這一次花蓮大地震國立東華大學受災非常的嚴重，我看到學校出來開記者會，我心裡真的非常的痛！他們出來開記者會說這一次災後重建預估要高達20億，現在募到了6,000萬。我看到這個學校要重建竟然是校長要出來開記者會，要來募款，到底我們教育部在做什麼，現在教育部能為東華大學做些什麼，能不能簡單的說明一下？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，我們4月10日有下去進行災損的評估，目前估出來大概18.3億，預計分成3年的時間把這18.3億設法到位，今年會先透過本部的公務預算、學校自籌經費，還有政院的災害準備金，以及爭取第二準備金，先來支應今年……"],["萬委員美玲：好，次長……"],["劉次長孟奇：然後明、後年會來爭取行政院的專項。"],["萬委員美玲：我在這裡全力替東華大學來拜託，真的不要讓校長出來開記者會募款，現在這個學校滿目瘡痍，還有線上上課、實體上課，很多校園的事情要回復正常，你還要讓他出來開記者會募款，情何以堪！全力支持東華大學的災後重建，好不好？"],["劉次長孟奇：是，這沒有問題。"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝兩位。","接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.91159375,"end":12.079718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.501593750000001,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.94409375,"end":16.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.872218750000002,"end":54.587843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.807218750000004,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.86221875000001,"end":118.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.13471875,"end":121.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.15971875000001,"end":129.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.39034375,"end":138.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.46909375,"end":144.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.09284375000001,"end":144.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.76346875000002,"end":145.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.56909375,"end":147.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.24409375000002,"end":149.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.20596875,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.62346875,"end":151.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.41659375,"end":245.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.22471875000002,"end":302.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.78534375000004,"end":303.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.89909375,"end":306.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.53159375,"end":310.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.21034375,"end":315.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.12534375,"end":318.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.46221875000003,"end":321.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.87971875,"end":320.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.06096875000003,"end":436.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.04721875,"end":439.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.10596875000005,"end":439.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.92846875000004,"end":485.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.21909375,"end":443.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.62596875,"end":517.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.1315937500001,"end":550.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.0715937500001,"end":574.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.62096875,"end":572.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.13534375,"end":592.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.33096875,"end":592.27596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.309,"text":"萬美玲委員委員早"},{"start":17.102,"end":31.19,"text":"市長我建議你今天會後回去把今天的這個質詢帶子調出來尤其是剛才洪孟凱委員那一段你看那個兩手一攤然後滿臉嬉笑我覺得不可思議耶真的非常不可思議耶你看你回去看你回去看一看你剛剛的回答對不對"},{"start":32.651,"end":54.098,"text":"什麼叫做這個體育發展部4月3號的時候本席質詢這個署長那時候就說完全還沒有開始我們希望能夠快但你今天給了一個更驚人的答案等新政府那怎麼樣現在是白領薪水是不是大家都不要做事了就等520等新政府怎麼有這種回答而且這樣回答你放在你心裡就算了大啦啦在這個委員會備詢的時候講說我們等新政府"},{"start":54.958,"end":80.071,"text":"等新政府你吃飯要不要等新政府上來再繼續吃飯這種回答真的非常不好還兩手一攤滿臉嬉笑我真的覺得要檢討啦那你看喔我相信這是一個非常重要的一個政策但並不是說現在我們在委員會才提出來要你馬上來做這是你們賴慶德準總統他的政見欸而且這是所有體育界的人大家殷切的盼望過去一點準備都沒有嗎一點概念都沒有嗎都沒有開過會嗎還等新政府勒"},{"start":80.931,"end":85.198,"text":"那你這兩個月薪水要不要領還等新政府我真的覺得要深思回去點討一下那再來我想剛剛我們說到這個體育發展部本身認為今天會後你真的不要再去等新政府研議一下研議有這麼困難嗎"},{"start":96.414,"end":107.422,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":119.298,"end":144.342,"text":"會後再來研議會後也請署長多久的時間研議可以跟本席辦公室跟我們教委所有的委員做一個報告不是要一個成果但是我們希望有一個藍圖希望也知道困難點在哪裡我們把所有的問題找出來大家共同來解決需要多久的時間是不是給我們兩個月的時間我們會把相關的研議報告送到委員辦公室一個月"},{"start":147.551,"end":148.512,"text":"巴黎帕運最高獎金為400萬元"},{"start":165.345,"end":176.836,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件﹖一、審查委員柯志恩等"},{"start":188.527,"end":199.793,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案 案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »:"},{"start":206.817,"end":212.6,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、"},{"start":236.132,"end":248.042,"text":"委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案件 議員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件 議員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件 議員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案件 議員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案案件 議員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案案件 議員柯志恩等17人�"},{"start":260.051,"end":287.567,"text":"那大概整幾個國家的邏輯大概就是我們奧運參賽人數大概是一萬五千人所以大概有三十二分之一的人可以拿到金牌那帕運的部分大概有八分之一的人可以拿到金牌所以各個國家的獎金的係數差距大概是四倍左右那因為這樣子所以我們決定把四百萬拉到五百萬並且呢我們希望能夠試試看研議看看能不能從五百萬這個金牌的選手也能拉轉成月退月退大概是兩萬五到三萬之間這樣的一個"},{"start":291.09,"end":298.396,"text":"繼立教練獎金部分也是有雙倍上去到70萬的部分我們正在努力當然這需要國防獎章委員會再進一步開會來確認亞帕裕呢?整體的提升你剛剛的意思是說我們現在可以把400萬提升到500萬這是確定嗎?"},{"start":310.527,"end":312.028,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志"},{"start":325.797,"end":329.822,"text":"而世界各國這樣看起來我們還是屬於前面的就是給我們這個奧運這個奧運選手或者是帕運選手的獎金按照比例然後再來呢亞帕運跟帕運呢我們其實是按照比例這樣在算但是我還是要講就是說帕運跟亞帕運你完全按照"},{"start":343.08,"end":347.564,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »: 二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:"},{"start":372.944,"end":380.868,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人"},{"start":397.476,"end":417.83,"text":"對選手鼓勵,覺得我在這個部分不能吝嗇,而且要加快腳步。再來署長一樣,一個小問題但是大事情,也就是說我看到巴黎奧運進入倒數一百天,那您大概是要信心喊話或是要鼓勵他們吧,有提到有說到說現在的選手教練都已經不是單槍匹馬的在奮鬥了,國訓中心體育署都會做他們的後盾,"},{"start":421.673,"end":422.074,"text":"目前先信心喊話信心喊話"},{"start":440.013,"end":461.409,"text":"有信心也是非常的重要但是有時候不要轉換人壓力我相信國手他們其實都會非常的努力好不好那但是呢他們現在要去這個法國我還是在講我想法國的氣候現在是熱浪這個非常的嚴重那在4月3號我這個臨時提案就有提到說要注意這件事情應該體育署要比照外國的這些代表隊趕快把這些移動式的這個水冷氣降溫的設備然後把它這個租或者是買趕快來處理"},{"start":466.633,"end":483.119,"text":"但您提到了一個問題說,哎呀現在我們已經租借了50台的移動式的水冷氣了,但是有噪音,那有的噪音可能會影響他們的睡眠,影響睡眠可能會影響賽事的成績喔。那我不理解這個很難克服嗎?那再者,那你說你要先去買幾台,這到底現在是買還是租?這算是一個小問題但是非常嚴重,要怎麼處理?"},{"start":486.02,"end":509.409,"text":"報告委員的確因為那個廠牌只有法國有賣所以說實在的我們真的不知道它會不會有噪音那依照我們台灣目前的水冷的一些產品噪音其實不大但是我們還是擔心所以我們還是很仔細那我們希望從法國那邊進口個幾台回來先測試看看這部分也是讓選手們有一些適應但是我們其實也是有其他的配套比方說"},{"start":510.089,"end":532.287,"text":"如果真的我們的要奪牌的選手真的臨時真的被噪音干擾或是沒辦法睡我們就安排到外面的旅館。局長我想就是這一些相關的細節對於初賽的國手來說非常的重要要多加注意喔那最後我想30秒的時間那個次長我們這一次花蓮大地震國立東華大學受災非常的嚴重我看到學校出來開記者會我心裡真的非常的痛他們出來開記者會說這一次預估災後重建要高達20億現在募到了6千萬"},{"start":539.873,"end":564.945,"text":"然後呢這個我看到這個學校要重建竟然是校長要出來開記者會來募款那到底我們教育部在做什麼現在教育部能為東華大學做些什麼能不能簡單的說明一下根本報告我們4月10號要去進行災損的那個評估目前估出來大概18.3億那預計分成三年的時間來把這18.3億設法倒揮那今年會先有透過本部的公務預算那學校自籌經費"},{"start":566.285,"end":592.051,"text":"還有政院的災害準備金跟爭取第二準備金先來支應今年。然後明後年會來爭取行政院的專項。我在這裡就是全力替東華大學來這個拜託,真的不要讓一個校長,這個學校滿目瘡痍,那現在還有這個線上上課、實體上課,那很多的校園要恢復正常,你還要讓他出來開記者會募款,情何以堪。全力支持東華大學的災後重建好不好?是,這沒有問題。好,謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"151474","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151474","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44555b983d43e51aaba51d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c946d8280b3e7255b855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"09:55:56 - 10:05:15","影片長度":"00:09:19","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":559,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:05:15+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:55:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":192,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（9時56分）謝謝召委，一樣請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝部長。其實今天我也是想請教道交條例，不過我剛剛聽到林俊憲委員的詢問，我自己本身心有戚戚焉，所以我也想補充一下，其實我本人在高速公路曾經發生過被追撞的事件，是在隧道前，可能因為燈光問題還是怎麼樣，大概是在100左右的時速走，然後走一走突然前面那台車是靜止的狀態，但我煞住了，然後我煞住了之後我就聽到後面有聲音過來，我就往後看後車怎麼都停不下來，最後他撞到我了，所以這很明顯的就是不同車輛的煞車系統其煞車能力的問題，他也有保持距離，他也有真的煞車然後發出聲音，他煞車煞了很久，地上都會有線條，但最後還是發生撞擊，而且不是輕輕的撞擊，我那台車後來報廢掉了，這個是損壞程度，還好那天撞我的可能不是那麼大台的車，如果是更大台的車，我可能就GG了，所以我也是呼應林俊憲委員的問題，我也希望我們交通部能夠積極來處理道安的問題。","今天回到道交條例，部長應該也非常清楚我的立場，我們在院會的總質詢也討論過，那時候部長有說如果警察單位……每次我們都會說警察單位可以負荷我們的檢舉，不會降低執法的強度，我也去內政委員會問過林右昌部長，我沒有說要求他幾分鐘之內要到這樣的問題，我知道他一定講不出來，我問他說您會期待民眾檢舉之後，如果你自己本身是檢舉人，您期待您檢舉幾分鐘之後警察可以到場，部長講不出來，他不敢講一個數字，因為警察有很多繁重的業務，其實檢舉交通違規的排序應該是比較後面的，而我們訓練一個警察，我也不期待訓練了一位警察，在警教訓練之後，結果他很多業務都是在出勤取締交通違規，我們應該是賦予警察更重要的社會安全的責任，我們現在把這個檢舉制度取消，我不認為對於警察業務的降低，對於勤務的降低有幫助，畢竟他出勤花的時間可以在內部處理很多件的網路檢舉。","當然道路交通的改革一定是循序漸進的，或許在一開始的時候，我們走得太快了，民間社會沒有辦法接受，有一些反彈的聲浪，所以我們去年的時候也有調整過一次了，就是一般的紅黃線已經沒有辦法接受民眾檢舉了，其實在那一次的調整，路權團體的反彈聲浪並沒有那麼的大，對不對？並沒有像這次的反彈那麼大，他們瞭解我們社會的交通的樣態，有時候駕駛人真的違規……說實在的，現場有開車的人沒有人敢說沒有違規啦！這個我自己開車也會有違規，但是在違規的時候，我們駕駛人會有怎樣的一個心態？有黃線的地方我們一定是先停黃線，有黃線的地方我們會先停黃線，沒有黃線的地方，大家就稍微停一下紅線，今天我擋你一下，改天你擋我一下，大家互相體諒，但是沒有紅線的地方的時候，我們應該是讓我們的駕駛，我們一樣都是逼不得已違規的情況下，我們會希望他先去停黃線再去停紅線，這對一般交通的衝擊比較小，後來沒有辦法，我們會期待我們在違規的時候，儘量不要在影響道路交通安全的地方去違規，譬如說轉彎的地方或者是我們去影響到其他的族群，如行人的族群或者是身心障礙者的停車空間，它已經可能有更高的交通安全因素，或者已經侵犯到其他族群的通行安全了，所以這次的反彈才會那麼大，包括剛剛召委講的，你們用1,200來做一個區分，確實是比較粗糙，老實講10項我也不是都不能接受啊！你說沒戴安全帽，說真的，沒戴安全帽影響到的安全是他自己，他要把自己暴露於這麼危險的交通環境中，說實在那是他的事情，但是在交叉處、路口處停車，或者是在人行道，這就已經侵犯到有在更危險的情況下嘛！","當然我可能有些話已經跟部長討論過了，在後續的審查我也會有我的立場，包括記點制度，上次公聽會因為發生大地震，部長不在嘛！記點制度我認為可以討論，因為這個很容易就被針對駕駛人的工作權益，他被盯上了，因個人的私怨，我跟他一天，他可能就GG了，對不對？跟他一天就拜拜了，他就被吊照了嘛，對不對？因為這個責任也不應該是駕駛人，而是店家沒有提供足夠的停車空間給駕駛人，所以我認為記點制度是可以調整的。","但是我們在循序漸進做交通改革的時候，我們應該是引導式的，他在不得不違規的情況下，應該要先去挑比較不會影響到大家的停車空間，包括也不要去併排嘛！我們應該引導他，所以如果這次我們直接取消這個檢舉項目的話，我們可以說是回到了原點，我認為保持現在的狀態應該是一個比較有引導式的方式，讓駕駛人在逼不得已違規的時候，也要讓駕駛人注意哪些地方真的是沒辦法停車的，他也不要去那邊停車，這是我個人的立場。包括記點制度，你說民眾檢舉，當然我持開放態度，有一些動態的或是比較危險的違規，那可能還是要有保留，因為這些警方沒有辦法去做檢舉，包括檢舉達人一天檢舉了幾百件、幾千件，這當然也可以限縮啊！這個都實名制了，如果這部分造成警察或是社會很大的反感的話，其實很簡單，實名制我們去限縮一個量就好了，而不是現在的方案是直接把原本推行要往前走的地方又回到原點。","最後，就是在發生行人事故的時候，你們應該也要統計哪個年齡層發生事故的比例最高，應該有嘛！"],["王部長國材：有。"],["廖委員先翔：應該有幾歲以上、幾歲以下或哪個年齡層最高，這個你們應該有相關資料吧！"],["王部長國材：是，就我瞭解，是65歲以上高齡者最多。"],["廖委員先翔：高齡者最多嘛！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["廖委員先翔：其實高齡者最多是可以預期的啦！說實在的，也不是每個行人都很守法，有時候發生交通事故的時候，不一定全歸責在駕駛人啦！行人有時候真的也是要負擔一部分的責任，他有沒有守交通安全、他有沒有一個防衛行走的概念，比如防衛駕駛，行人也要有保護自己的一個概念。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["廖委員先翔：其實在地方上都會有很多的活動，以新北市政府來講好了，很多地方會有老人共餐、重陽節的活動，很多地方性的活動都是長輩會去參加的，其實地方政府都會請一些消防單位、環保單位去做現場的宣導，政府也希望有時候辦個活動，錢都花了，應該要有政策宣導的一個目的性存在，而不是大家去那邊領一個便當、領個餐盒就回家，對不對？錢花下去要有效益，我們監理單位有沒有辦法，就是後續針對這些高齡者的族群，透過地方舉辦的活動，我們可以主動去詢問，在相關的活動去做一個宣導，讓我們的長輩也應該要有一個安全行走的觀念，大家不會同意行人絕對是最大的，一定是大家互相尊重，大家都要遵守交通安全，這部分部長怎麼看？"],["王部長國材：第一個，我先回答前面的問題，去年雖然我們有處理，那是一個很臨時性的處理，因為今天要送到立法院來修改，我們必須是系統性的，我剛才談到的1,200元，是在處罰條例第九十二條跟施行細則裡面有規範，這個叫做不予舉發，這已經有了，所以我們就用這樣的一個基礎來做系統性的，至於10項裡面要不要改，我尊重各委員大家討論的結果。高齡者部分，事實上去年行人死亡數380人是歷年來最低的了，所以去年有一定的效果。但是我們大概有1,600個路老師，我們每一年都找很多人來訓練，去老人家的活動地點做宣導，這幾年來我感覺有一些成果，但是的確高齡者的……"],["廖委員先翔：不過我這在地方從來都沒看過耶！不好意思喔！"],["王部長國材：要到汐止辦的時候，我請他們跟你報告一下。"],["廖委員先翔：對啊！如果有這樣的制度，那就多多跟地方政府來做一些交流……"],["王部長國材：好，瞭解。"],["廖委員先翔：反正現場是我們派人去做宣導而已就好了。"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["廖委員先翔：再麻煩部長，好不好？後續有相關的計畫或成效也麻煩告知，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：謝謝廖委員。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員。","在此先作一個宣告，等一下蔡其昌委員、何欣純委員、魯明哲委員發言完畢後休息10分鐘，請各黨團助理告知後面要發言的委員。本日有委員提出臨時提案，依本會的往例，在登記質詢的本會委員發言告一段落後處理。稍後我們在魯明哲委員詢答完畢後休息10分鐘，然後在休息10分鐘之後開會的時候，隨即處理臨時提案，也請黨團助理告知貴黨的委員。","現在請蔡其昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.27971875,"end":4.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.4478437500000005,"end":21.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.30596875,"end":31.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.739093750000002,"end":33.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.30846875,"end":37.611593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.00409375,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.62846875,"end":41.627843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.58971875,"end":60.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.135343750000004,"end":93.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.07534375,"end":95.39159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.50971875,"end":98.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.44596875,"end":115.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.28284375000001,"end":152.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.83409375000002,"end":180.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.82971875,"end":182.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.91784375,"end":184.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.99784375000002,"end":186.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.70221875000001,"end":189.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.11096875,"end":203.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.48846875,"end":211.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.85846875000001,"end":213.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.71471875,"end":223.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.26596875,"end":239.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.57159375,"end":258.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.04534375000003,"end":259.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.90596875,"end":264.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.58034375,"end":268.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.52909375,"end":270.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.14909375,"end":273.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.54096875,"end":282.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.65346875,"end":316.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.31909375000004,"end":318.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.46221875000003,"end":332.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.63721875000005,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.19784375,"end":337.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.42971875,"end":339.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.24784375,"end":383.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.88659375000003,"end":389.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.33721875000003,"end":393.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.11284375,"end":399.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.54659375,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.61409375000005,"end":399.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.83346875,"end":399.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.85034375000004,"end":399.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.96846875,"end":405.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.60471875,"end":409.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.43534375,"end":410.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.46471875000003,"end":413.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.46846875,"end":420.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.72034375000004,"end":428.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.92596875000004,"end":434.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.01784375000005,"end":464.09346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.44784375,"end":484.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.68096875000003,"end":485.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.35596875000005,"end":538.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.1240937499999,"end":539.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.5034687500001,"end":542.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.4272187500001,"end":542.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.4609687500001,"end":542.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.81534375,"end":545.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.46471875,"end":557.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.55721875,"end":548.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.6159687500001,"end":550.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.1640937500001,"end":554.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.91471875,"end":555.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.0915937500001,"end":557.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.8172187499999,"end":557.9353437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.311,"end":2.784,"text":"好謝謝昭偉喔那一樣請部長請王部長"},{"start":5.809,"end":30.588,"text":"謝謝部長其實在這個今天當然我也是想請教道交條例啦昨天我剛剛聽到郡縣委員的這個詢問啦我自己本身心有戚戚焉啦所以我也想補充一下其實我在我自己本人在高速公路曾經發生過被追撞的事件那就是在隧道前那可能因為燈光你還怎麼樣那反正就是大概就是大概在100左右的時速走嘛然後走走突然前面那台車是靜著的狀態"},{"start":32.109,"end":59.883,"text":"我殺住了。然後我殺住了之後我就聽到後面有聲音咦~~~過來然後我就我就往後看欸怎麼咦~~~怎麼都停不下來最後他撞到我了所以這很明顯的就是不同的車輛他對於煞車這個系統的他的煞車能力的問題他也有保持距離啊那他也有他也有真的煞車然後發出這個煞車很久那個地上都有線條嘛最後還是還是發生撞擊而且不是輕輕的撞擊我那台車後來報廢掉了"},{"start":61.204,"end":61.224,"text":"報告"},{"start":77.853,"end":81.616,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":98.77,"end":102.231,"text":"您會期待您會期待呃民眾檢舉之後你自己本身是檢舉人您期待你幾分鐘檢舉之後幾分鐘警察可以到場"},{"start":116.557,"end":132.308,"text":"報章講不出來啊。他不敢講一個數字嘛。因為警察他有很多防重的業務嘛。其實檢舉交通違規是應該是排序到比較後面的。我們訓練一個警察我也不期待說訓練的一位警察在警教訓練之後結果他很多的業務都是在檢舉交通都是在出勤這個取締交通違規"},{"start":133.089,"end":149.954,"text":"我們應該是賦予警察更重要的社會安全的一個責任嘛那我們現在把這個檢舉制度取消我不認為是對於警察的業務的降低啦那個勤務的降低有幫助啦畢竟你出勤花的時間你可以在內部處理很多件的這個網路的一個檢舉啦那"},{"start":153.312,"end":180.228,"text":"這個當然道路交通的改革啦一定是循序漸進啦那或許在一開始的時候我們走得太快了這個民間社會他沒有辦法接這個有一些反彈的聲浪所以說我們在去年的時候也有調整過一次了嘛就是在一般的紅黃線已經沒有辦法接受民眾檢舉了其實在那一次的調整路權團體的反彈聲浪並沒有那麼的大嘛對不對並沒有像這一次反彈那麼大那也了解我們社會的交通的一個"},{"start":180.949,"end":181.955,"text":"樣態,有時候駕駛人真的"},{"start":185.834,"end":211.223,"text":"違規說實在的啦有開現場有開車的沒有人敢說沒有違規啦我自己開車也會違規但是在違規的時候我們駕駛人會有怎樣的一個心態有黃線的地方我們一定是先停黃線嘛有黃線的地方我們先停黃線沒有黃線的地方那黃線啊大家稍停一下大家平常你你我幫你動一下你幫我動一下大家都會互相體諒但是沒有黃線的地方的時候我們應該是"},{"start":212.898,"end":212.918,"text":"報告﹗"},{"start":239.904,"end":257.216,"text":"有更高的交通安全的因素或是已經侵犯到其他族群的一個通行的安全了所以說這次的反彈才會那麼大嘛那我也包括過剛剛我們趙薇講的我們用1200來做一個區分那確實是比較粗糙老實講實相我也不是說都不能接受啊你說這個"},{"start":259.093,"end":280.454,"text":"安全帽沒戴安全帽說真的沒戴安全帽你影響到的安全是你自己你自己要把自己暴露於這麼危險的交通環境中說實在的那是你的事情說實在的那是你的事情那但是你在交叉處這個入口處停車或者是在連行道你就已經侵犯到有在更危險的情況下嘛"},{"start":280.774,"end":305.148,"text":"所以說當然我這可能有些話已經跟部長討論過了那在後續的審查我也會有我的立場那包括過第1屆第15上次在公聘會因為發生大地震部長不在嘛第1屆第15我認為可以討論嘛因為這個很容易就被針對駕駛的工作權益他被盯上了我個人思維我跟你一天你可能就GG了對不對跟你一天你就掰掰了你就被吊罩了嘛對不對那"},{"start":305.828,"end":331.834,"text":"因為這個責任也不應該駕駛而是店家沒有提供足夠的這個停車的空間給駕駛所以我認為記點支柱是可以調整的但是我們在循序漸進做交通改革的時候我們應該是在引導式的你在不能不而歸的情況下你應該要先去挑比較不會影響到大家的停車的空間包括你也不要去併排嘛我們應該引導他所以說在如果說這一次我們直接取消的話"},{"start":333.615,"end":350.709,"text":"這個檢舉的項目的時候我們可以說是回到了原點那我認為保持現在的狀態應該是一個比較有引導式的方式讓駕駛在逼不得已回歸的時候也要讓駕駛注意哪些地方這個事情沒辦法停車的時候你也不要去那邊停車"},{"start":352.251,"end":372.213,"text":"我個人的立場那包括記點制度你說民眾檢舉那當然我持開放態度那有一些動態的或是比較危險的違規那可能還是要有保留因為這些警方沒有辦法去做檢舉那包括你說檢舉打了一天檢舉了幾百件起檢見這當然也可以限縮啊這個都實名制的"},{"start":373.434,"end":398.705,"text":"我們當然如果說這部分造成警察或是社會很大的一個反感的話我們其實很簡單實名之餘我們去去獻出的一個量就好了而不是說現在的方案直接把原本的推行往要往前走的地方回到回到原點啦那最後的一點時間啊就是我們這個在發生行人事故的時候我們應該要統計哪個年齡層的發生事故的比例最高嗎應該有嗎"},{"start":400.046,"end":400.066,"text":"報告"},{"start":422.035,"end":450.684,"text":"價食啊那行人有時候真的也是要負擔一部分的責任他有沒有手交通安全他們有一個防衛行走的一個比如說防衛價食嗎那行人也要有保護自己的一個概念那其實在地方上都會有很多有清北市政府來講會有很多的地方的老人共餐、重陽街的活動或是其實很多地方性的活動都是長輩會去參加的那其實地方政府都會請一些消防單位、環保單位去做現場的宣導"},{"start":451.844,"end":465.531,"text":"政府也希望說有時候辦活動錢都花了,我們應該有政策宣導的一個目的性在,而不是說大家去那裡可能拿起來便當領個餐盒,我就回家嘛對不對,錢花下去要有效益。那我們監理單位有沒有辦法就是後續針對這些高齡者的族群,我們透過地方舉辦的活動,我們可以去主動去詢問"},{"start":471.894,"end":495.616,"text":"那我們在相關的活動去做一個宣導讓我們的長輩也應該要有一個安全行走的一個觀念而不是說大家絕對不會同意行人絕對是最大的一定是一代互相尊重大家都在走交通安全那這部分部長怎麼看?第一個就是去年雖然我先前面的問題啦去年雖然我們有處理那個是一個很臨時性的處理那因為今天要送到這個立法院來修稿我們必須系統性的"},{"start":497.037,"end":519.233,"text":"那我剛才談到一千兩百元是在我們處罰條例九十二條跟我們的施行細則裡面有規範這個叫做不宜舉花他已經有了啊說明就用這樣的一個基礎來做系統性的那當然實相裡面要不要改我想我尊重這個委員大家討論的結果那現在高齡者事實上去年那個先任死亡三百八十是第一年來贏最低的"},{"start":519.633,"end":519.913,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":540.977,"end":541.157,"text":"告知。"}]}},{"id":"151473","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151473","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452b708e0eb453534957f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c946a34765b9d30d1a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:51:05 - 12:00:40","影片長度":"00:09:35","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":575,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:00:40+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:51:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":661,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時51分）麻煩請次長及國教署署長。"],["主席：請次長及國教署的副署長，謝謝。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["葉委員元之：次長早。這期商業周刊的封面標題是瘋狂私校潮，不知道次長或副署長有沒有看過？"],["戴副署長淑芳：有。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有看過？有看過的話，我就講簡單一點，沒看過的話，我就要引述一些裡面的數據，所以你們都看過嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：基本上，它大概是說私中的那個，現在從11%增加到15%，大概是最主要的引述。"],["葉委員元之：也不止啦！它提到現在私立高中的報考率非常高、錄取率也下降，舉個例子，延平高中去年有2,700人報考、今年有3,800人報考，增加了非常多，可見現在有非常多家長寧可將小孩送到私立高中，你們知道原因是什麼嗎？你們知道原因是什麼嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：請副署長來回答。"],["戴副署長淑芳：我想家長有自己的教育選擇權，但公立學校也會透過各項政策提高公立學校的品質、也會積極維護校園的安全。"],["葉委員元之：你們對於商業週刊的回應就是尊重家長的教育選擇權，但是這個教育選擇權有時候是不得不的選擇權，因為他認為把小孩送到公立高中可能得不到完善的照顧，所以他寧可把孩子送到私校。週刊舉出了幾個問題，第一個問題是校園安全，這是一個很大的問題。第二個問題，現在的教改改得亂七八糟，大家無所適從，家長寧可把孩子送到私立高中，讓私立高中好好的照顧。這些都是教育部的責任、也是國教署的責任，結果國教署給予記者的回應是尊重家長的選擇權，一副就是局外人的樣子，不應該是這種態度吧！你們的態度應該是要如何改善公校的品質，讓這些家長願意把孩子送到公校才對啊！這代表你有沒有認為這個是當責嘛！這個是你們的責任，應該是這樣吧？"],["戴副署長淑芳：是。"],["葉委員元之：因為它問了非常多老師的意見、家長的意見，這些都是不具名的，不具名代表什麼意思？不具名代表的是真心話。之前我也曾經質詢過你們的部長，不知道為什麼部長很少來我們的教育委員會，我看到其他的委員會，無論是國防部或衛福部都是部長出席，但我們的潘文忠部長每次都派次長來，我不知道是為什麼，難道他是待退老兵已經無心戀棧，今天他是去哪裡了？"],["劉次長孟奇：報告委員，昨天部長有來進行專案報告。"],["葉委員元之：昨天是昨天、今天是今天啊！換人了嗎？換人了嗎？他今天去哪裡？"],["劉次長孟奇：今天是行政院院會。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼其他的部會首長就能來立法院，他們不用去行政院院會嗎？為什麼？你們針對這個去了解一下，好不好？了解一下，不要一副都與你們無關的樣子！也不要粉飾太平！","其中有提到一個，我覺得教育部確實應該要好好檢討，有一位校長分析，新課綱就有19項議題要弄KPI，包括2030雙語政策、生生用平板等等，現在我就與你檢討一下生生用平板的政策。昨天聯合報有一則報導，不知道你們有沒有看到？現在教育部通令要求各學校要非常重視開機率，所有的老師為了提高平板的開機率就故意安排一些課程，但不是學生開機、不是學生上課，而是老師幫忙開機，為了要應付教育部訂出來的KPI，有沒有這個事情？"],["劉次長孟奇：報告委員，教育部沒有訂這個KPI，我想……"],["葉委員元之：沒有訂這個KPI，為什麼有老師說為了應付上級單位的指示才做這件事，為什麼？"],["劉次長孟奇：報告委員，基本上，數位學習成效是包含數位學習平台使用情形，平台才是重點，也就是他有沒有使用。此外，我們也會看他的學習成績，以自主學習量表來評估。其實我們看他的開機率，最主要是希望有所謂手把手的教導，有些學校的使用率比較低是因為還是需要一些培力的過程，我們再分配資源過去，其實我們是看這個來決定哪些學校優先獲得這樣的協助。"],["葉委員元之：按照你的說法就是你們的理想與現實有很大的落差。"],["劉次長孟奇：這一點我們再去……"],["葉委員元之：對啊！就是因為有很大的落差，才會造成基層是老師幫忙開機。"],["劉次長孟奇：這一點我們也有……"],["葉委員元之：你的陳義過高嘛！有些偏鄉學校的設備比學生還多，一個人有2台平板啊！你們的平板花了多少錢？那時候推生生用平板花了多少錢？"],["劉次長孟奇：80億左右。"],["葉委員元之：全部80億？"],["劉次長孟奇：因為還包含其他軟體……"],["葉委員元之：總共是多少？80億？總共200億嘛！4年200億！200億都花下去了，究竟有沒有達到成效，你們要去追蹤，不要為了達到成效就讓人家刻意去開機，這樣也是不對的嘛！如果沒有使用需求，也不能強迫人家使用嘛！"],["劉次長孟奇：是。"],["葉委員元之：接下來是預算的部分，上次我有一個臨時提案，現在教育部在推動教育平權，補助大學生及高中生的學費，免學費政策，為了推動教育平權，對吧？"],["劉次長孟奇：是。"],["葉委員元之：但是有一群漏網之魚，私立國中直升私立高中的學生，他們沒有得到補助，這是上次的臨時提案，對吧？這是教育部給我的回文，經查這類學生總共有六千多人，如果這些人也都要補助的話，所需經費是三億多，這是你們回我的文，對不對？現在是說因為沒有這筆三億多的經費，所以不會補助，是這個意思嗎？"],["戴副署長淑芳：基本上，這是一個考量，因為它會有財政的支出，主要……"],["葉委員元之：副署長請教一下，當初你們在推高中職及大學免學費時是否有財政考量？你當初有沒有考量財政？"],["戴副署長淑芳：是……"],["葉委員元之：總共花了多少錢？大學與高中職免學費，總共花了多少錢？"],["劉次長孟奇：現在大學並沒有免學費，是拉近。"],["葉委員元之：補助啦！補助總共花了多少錢？"],["劉次長孟奇：拉近的部分大概是花了190億。"],["葉委員元之：190億嘛！加上高中職是多少？"],["劉次長孟奇：高中職應該是另外一塊，219億。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！總共是219億，你們拿出219億就有錢，但是對於這群人就沒錢，這樣講得過去嗎？你的政策目標是什麼？政策目標應該是教育平權吧！教育平權是你們賴清德準總統的選舉政見，稱為教育平權，而平權的意思就是大家都一樣，不論出身、不論收入、不論入學方式、不論是男是女或是什麼宗教，大家都一樣才叫平權吧！對不對？因為他們是直升的人，你們卻獨獨把他們劃掉，對不起，我們有平權，但你們不平權！"],["戴副署長淑芳：私立高中在這個部分會有辦學的獨特性，因為它是獨立招生，不是免試入學，我們會審慎評估。"],["葉委員元之：你就是設定條件了嘛！我現在講的平權就是沒有條件才稱為平權，對吧？你現在又加別的條件進來，那你還要不要加別的條件進來？要不要再加別的條件？"],["戴副署長淑芳：我們會多收集各方的意見。"],["葉委員元之：今天你給我的理由不合理嘛！如果要平權就不是以預算作為考量，要是以預算作為考量，應該是兩百多億都不可以，為什麼只把3億挑出來呢？這個東西大家真的不能夠接受，講都是你們在講，大家聽了只覺得是前後矛盾，所以請你再重新評估，好不好？"],["戴副署長淑芳：是。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候？"],["戴副署長淑芳：我們會審慎來研議。"],["葉委員元之：不要審慎了，趕快啦！這個不合理嘛！你們自己都講不出來了。"],["戴副署長淑芳：一個月之內。"],["葉委員元之：不要一個月啦！你這個東西就是不合理嘛！你現在說沒有3億，卻有200億？"],["戴副署長淑芳：委員，還是希望你能給一個月的時間。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼要一個月？你們每次都說一個月，提案給你們就隨便回一個文，質詢你們之後就是再一個月，下次又隨便給一個公文，等我來問你就再一個月，要不要問到新總統都……"],["戴副署長淑芳：因為這個還要收集各方面的意見。"],["葉委員元之：你們不要打臉賴清德，好不好？你們現在就是在打臉賴清德，因為賴清德說要平權，但是你們都不做、都打臉你們的總統，讓你們的賴總統失信於民。"],["主席：好，謝謝各位。","今天質詢的委員均已發言完畢，另有委員吳春城、楊瓊瓔提出書面質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.46034375,"end":8.805968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.04221875,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.640968750000003,"end":13.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.51409375,"end":14.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.218468750000003,"end":15.960968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.78784375,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.21221875,"end":28.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.87034375,"end":30.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.258468750000002,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.03846875,"end":42.775343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.35784375,"end":41.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.08346875,"end":42.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.60659375,"end":63.008468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.39659375,"end":65.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.35846875,"end":65.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.66596875,"end":80.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.64721875000001,"end":89.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.43471875,"end":99.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.79159375,"end":102.76596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.90096875,"end":105.56721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.20846875000001,"end":114.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.51096875,"end":126.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.86346875000001,"end":134.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.13221875000002,"end":139.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.29596875000001,"end":166.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.87409375000001,"end":168.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.49409375000002,"end":171.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.78034375000001,"end":173.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.21909375,"end":173.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.57346875000002,"end":176.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.42534375000002,"end":179.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.32346875000002,"end":181.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.19659375,"end":183.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.03159375,"end":185.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.04846875,"end":185.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.97659375,"end":186.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.76971875,"end":187.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.82846875,"end":193.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.46034375000002,"end":195.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.43034375000002,"end":198.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.32471875000002,"end":199.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.96596875,"end":207.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.23909375000002,"end":215.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.72284375,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.98659375000003,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.46284375000002,"end":240.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.98909375000002,"end":253.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.72971875000002,"end":254.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.31596875000002,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.03284375000004,"end":258.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.92721875,"end":264.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.16721875,"end":268.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.02284375,"end":268.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.51221875000005,"end":268.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.98471875,"end":269.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.01846875,"end":305.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.23221875,"end":310.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.15534375000004,"end":323.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.30284375,"end":313.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.29784375,"end":318.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.37284375,"end":325.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.93784375,"end":328.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.35096875000005,"end":328.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.85721875,"end":328.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.95846875,"end":337.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.44346875,"end":333.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.57784375,"end":335.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.27346875,"end":342.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.75846875,"end":356.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.77346875,"end":351.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.01784375,"end":356.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.85284375000003,"end":363.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.68721875,"end":364.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.86846875000003,"end":365.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.66159375,"end":366.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.01159375000003,"end":382.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.11034375,"end":393.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.04534375000003,"end":398.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.41596875000005,"end":403.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.88784375,"end":415.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.73159375,"end":405.06471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.82284375,"end":413.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.97471875,"end":414.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.55659375000005,"end":418.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.58159375,"end":428.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.59846875000005,"end":419.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.63096875,"end":427.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.51659375,"end":431.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.55846875000003,"end":432.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.53284375000004,"end":435.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.33409375,"end":437.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.41846875000005,"end":444.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.69971875000005,"end":446.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.38721875000005,"end":448.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.54721875,"end":452.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.00659375000004,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.30846875000003,"end":465.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.81471875000005,"end":466.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.11846875000003,"end":473.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.01596875,"end":487.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.80409375000005,"end":490.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.87409375000004,"end":496.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.79721875,"end":499.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.62409375000004,"end":509.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.70221875000004,"end":511.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.3728437500001,"end":517.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.59971875,"end":519.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.1397187499999,"end":521.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.3503437500001,"end":521.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.58659375,"end":522.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.0378437500001,"end":524.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.64096875,"end":529.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.4253437500001,"end":527.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.9653437500001,"end":528.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.5347187500001,"end":531.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.85096875,"end":537.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.28846875,"end":539.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.2165937500001,"end":541.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":541.81971875,"end":546.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.23284375,"end":554.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.2703437499999,"end":548.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.1172187500001,"end":559.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.8428437499999,"end":557.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.39096875,"end":566.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.17346875,"end":573.5615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.61221875,"end":574.6922187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.605,"end":25.631,"text":"麻煩次長還有國教署署長。好,我們請次長跟國教署的副署長。副署長,謝謝。委員早。早喔?這樣早喔?因為這一期有一個商業週刊,它的封面叫做《瘋狂私校潮》。我不知道次長或是副署長有沒有看過?"},{"start":28.24,"end":56.865,"text":"有沒有看過?因為有看過的話我就可以講簡單一點沒有看過我就要引述一些裡面的數據所以你們看過嗎?他基本上大概是說師中的那一個現在從11%升到15%大概是最主要不只啦他提到就是說現在的師藝高中的報考率非常的高錄取率也下降光是舉個例子像延平中學延平高中去年2700人報考今年有3800人報考增加非常多"},{"start":57.185,"end":62.577,"text":"所以現在有非常多的家長都寧可把小朋友送到私立高中去,那你們知道原因是什麼嗎?"},{"start":67.745,"end":88.459,"text":"我想家長有他的教育選擇權那在公立的學校我想我們也是會透過各項的政策去提高公立學校的品質也會積極的維護校園的安全你們在回應商業週刊的回答就是說尊重家長的教育選擇權但是這個教育選擇權有時候是不得不的選擇權"},{"start":89.6,"end":113.5,"text":"就是因為他覺得把小孩子送到公立高中可能沒有得到完善的照顧所以他寧可把小朋友送到私校比如說他舉了幾個問題第一個問題就是校園安全就是一個很大的問題第二個問題就是現在教改改得亂七八糟的大家無所適從家長寧可把小朋友送到私立高中去讓私立高中好好去照顧"},{"start":114.571,"end":134.211,"text":"那這些都教育部的責任嘛也是國教署的責任結果國教署在回應記者的時候說我們尊重他的選擇權一副就是局外人的樣子不應該是這種態度吧你們的態度應該是說我怎麼去改善公校的品質讓這些家長願意把他們的小朋友送到公校才對啊"},{"start":135.219,"end":157.458,"text":"所以這代表你有沒有覺得這是當責嘛這是你們的責任應該是這樣吧所以請教育部好不好你們去針對因為他問了非常多的老師的意見家長的意見這些都是不具名的不具名代表什麼意思不具名代表說這是真心話啦我之前也曾經質詢過你們部長我也不知道為什麼部長都很少來我們教育文化委員會"},{"start":158.419,"end":178.874,"text":"我看其他的委員會每次不管是國防部還是什麼衛福部都是部長來然後我們這個潘文忠部長每次都派次長來我不知道為什麼他是是怎樣帶退老兵就是已經無心練戰他今天是去哪裡啊跟委員報告昨天部長就來進行專案報告昨天是昨天今天是今天嘛他換人了嗎換人了嗎那他今天去哪裡今天是行政院院會行政院院會"},{"start":188.871,"end":214.94,"text":"那為什麼其他有部會首長來立法院?他們都不用去緊任委員會?為什麼?你們去針對這個瞭解一下好不好?瞭解一下好不好?不要一副就是都跟你們無關的樣子然後也不要粉飾太平那其中裡面有提到一個我覺得這確實是教育部應該要好好檢討的他說"},{"start":217.249,"end":240.019,"text":"有一個校長分析新課綱就有19項議題要弄KPI包括什麼2030雙語政策深深用平板我現在就跟你來檢討一下深深用平板昨天聯合報有一個報導我不知道你們有沒有看到現在說教育部有通令說各學校要求各學校要非常重視開基率"},{"start":241.058,"end":258.09,"text":"所以現在所有老師為了要讓這個平板有開機率所以故意要去安排一些課程然後老師幫忙開機不是學生開機不是學生上課是老師來幫忙開機啦為了要應付教育部訂出來的KPI有沒有這個事情啊"},{"start":259.291,"end":288.124,"text":"跟委員報告,教育部沒有訂這個KPI。沒有訂KPI,那為什麼老師會說他為了要應付上級單位的指示,所以要來做這個事,為什麼?跟委員報告,基本上我們數位學習成效是包含數位學習平台使用情形,平台才是重點,就他沒有使用那個,還有就是說我們也會去看他的學習成績,自主學習量表來評估。那在這主要的是,其實我們在看他的開機率的時候,"},{"start":288.664,"end":309.914,"text":"最主要是我們要來看因為我們希望有所謂的手把手的教導因為有些學校它所以使用率比較低是因為它還是需要一些賠利的過程那我們在這邊有配資源過去所以其實我們是看這個來決定哪些學校優先獲得這樣的協助按照你的說法就是說你們理想跟現實有很大的落差嗎"},{"start":311.389,"end":328.02,"text":"這一點我們再去...對啊,就是有很大的落差,所以才會造成基層變成說老師在幫忙開機嘛。那這一點我們也有...你誠意過高嘛。然後有一些偏鄉的學校因為設備比學生還多,一個人兩台平板啊。那你們平板總共花多少錢?那時候推深深平板總共花多少錢?"},{"start":328.936,"end":343.003,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案 案 ﹚一、審查委"},{"start":356.929,"end":380.513,"text":"我上一次有一個臨時提案就是說現在教育部在推動平權教育平權所以讓大學生還有高中生都補助學費嘛免學費政策對不對這是為了推動教育平權對吧但是有一群漏網之魚就是私立國中直升私立高中的學生他們沒有得到補助對吧這個上次有臨時提案嘛"},{"start":380.993,"end":397.953,"text":"那這個是教育部毀我的文啊說經查這些學生總共有六千多人那如果說那些人也都要補助的話所需經費是三億多這是你們毀我的文嘛 對不對你現在是說因為沒有這三億所以不願意補助是這個意思嗎 我跟你確認一下"},{"start":402.122,"end":414.892,"text":"財政支出好啦那副組長我跟請教一下當初你們在推這種就是高中值以及大學免學費的時候你有沒有財政考量你當初有沒有考量財政那總共花多少錢"},{"start":416.636,"end":431.177,"text":"大學跟高中值的免學費總共花多少錢?我們現在大學這邊沒有免學費,是拉進。補助啦,補助總共花多少錢?拉進這邊大概是花了190元。190元嘛,然後加高中值多少?高中值這應該是另外一塊。"},{"start":433.558,"end":437.363,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等219人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。」"},{"start":449.6,"end":473.212,"text":"教育平權這是你們賴清德準總統的選舉政見叫教育平權平權的意思就是大家都一樣不論出生不論收入不論入學方式不論你是男是女是什麼宗教大家都一樣叫平權吧對不對那為什麼你獨獨把這一群因為他是直生的人把它劃掉說對不起我沒有平權但你不平權"},{"start":474.239,"end":489.578,"text":"因為私立高中它這個部分的話會有那個半學的那個獨特性那有什麼關係那還是那你就設條件進去了嘛那你就是設定條件了嘛那你就是設定條件了嘛我現在講的是平權就是沒有條件才叫平權對吧"},{"start":490.916,"end":517.796,"text":"沒有條件 那你現在又加條件進來那你要不要再加別的條件進來要不要再加別的條件我們會多收你更多的一點不是 所以你今天你給我的理由不合理嘛因為如果是要平權的話就不是以預算來考量如果要以預算考量是兩百多億你都不可以啊為什麼只把這三億挑出來咧這個東西我跟你講大家不能夠接受啦都是你們在那邊講然後大家聽了都覺得前後矛盾"},{"start":518.652,"end":536.671,"text":"所以你這個再給我重新評估好不好什麼時候我們會審慎來不要審慎啦趕快啦因為你就是不合理嘛你們自己都講不出來了好我們一個月之內不要一個月啦你現在這個東西就是不合理嘛你現在跟我說3億你沒有那200億你有"},{"start":542.019,"end":566.289,"text":"希望還是可以給一個月的時間為什麼要一個月?我們都一個月啦,你們每次都一個月然後提案給你就隨便回一個文然後再跟你們講再一個月然後下次你隨便有一個公文我來問你再一個月那會不會問到新總統都...你們不要打臉賴清德好不好你們現在都在打臉賴清德啦因為賴清德說要平權你們都不做啦你們會打臉你們的總統讓你們的賴總統失信於民"},{"start":573.257,"end":573.278,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151472","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151472","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445a21b7e8de75e7a6cf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c941e9d41fe4acbdea15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:45:25 - 12:55:39","影片長度":"00:10:14","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":614,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:55:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:45:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":510,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時45分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請今天最忙的周秘書長，還有第二忙的陳次長。"],["主席：好，辛苦了。秘書長跟次長，請。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不影響大家用餐，因為可以讓上午的部分有一個段落。"],["周秘書長萬來：鍾委員好。"],["陳次長明堂：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：秘書長好，次長好。今天我的審查的標題和發言的意見很明確，國會如果審查機制失靈，倉促修法會陷民於罪，而且會造成媒體噤聲，企業屈服。我們來看一下我整理出來的條文，翁委員版的刑法第一百四十條之一已經出委員會了，條文內容說到「有其他藐視國會之行為者，處三年以下有期徒刑」。請問周秘書長，經過本週一的逐條審查，你認為翁委員版本的「其他藐視國會之行為」是哪些行為？你想得到的是哪些？"],["周秘書長萬來：抱歉，我大概沒辦法對這個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒辦法講？那你覺得這樣的一個描述，用八個字「其他藐視國會行為」，有沒有符合罪刑法定原則？在刑法第一百四十條之一的修法草案當中，用這樣的文字描述，有沒有符合罪刑法定原則？很困難，思考一下。","次長，你覺得呢？依照您在法律上認知的見解。"],["陳次長明堂：基本上，基於處罰明確性原則的話，儘量不要用不確定的法律概念，這幾個字目前在文字上看起來確實是不確定的法律概念。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我知道次長會答，因為你的報告就是這樣寫。好，可是這樣的一個條文已經送出委員會了，那會有什麼問題呢？我們來看一下，同樣是翁委員的版本，立法院職權行使法第四十五條還沒有出委員會，就是今天要審的，它的內容是：「立法院經院會決議，得送調查委員會，或經委員會決議，得設調查專案小組，要求與特定議案有關之機關、法人、人民團體及個人，聽證並提供文件資料及檔案。」秘書長在看資料，我問次長好了，請問一下，這裡的「法人」有沒有包括公司、學校、醫院？"],["陳次長明堂：法人的話，包括公私法人。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那「機關」有沒有包括獨立機關？包括公平會？"],["陳次長明堂：都包括在內。"],["鍾委員佳濱：「人民團體」有沒有包括一般的賞鳥協會？"],["陳次長明堂：基本上統統包括在內。"],["鍾委員佳濱：「個人」有沒有包括公民記者？"],["陳次長明堂：包括。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。所以說，一旦這個條文今天大家的意見傾向要把它完成，那它會跟已出委員會的同樣由翁委員提出的刑法第一百四十條之一相扣連，只要這兩個條文一起通過，未來在我們本國，不管你是行政機關還是獨立機關，不管你是公私法人、財團法人、社團法人，你是醫院，你是學校，你是寺廟，你是賞鳥協會，你是公民記者，你都有義務來應立法院要求聽證，而聽證的時候，你就是接受質詢，拒絕提供資料，要處三年以下有期徒刑。請問秘書長，這兩條這樣子一起看，您覺得有問題嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為調查的時候要照第585號，它一定有一個調查事項……"],["鍾委員佳濱：585號大家談得太多了，我只說從條文的設計看起來，這兩個併在一起很可怕，我問周秘書長，如果有立委幫婆婆喬貸款不成，可以要求銀行來聽證、提供資料，如果拒絕還要被判刑，你覺得這樣的情況會發生嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：跟鍾委員報告，不管是院會或委員會，成立調查委員會或調查小組，一定是合議的，不會出於個人的因素。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然。立法院是合議機關，都有一個合議的過程，但是我們也看到，很多合議的過程所做出來的結果，這樣的極端情況有可能發生，會讓貸款銀行不知道如何是好。","接下來我們看楊瓊瓔委員的版本，這個提案已經在本週一出委員會了，雖然我們保留，它的內容是：「各委員會為審查院會交付之議案，得依憲法第六十七條第二項之規定舉行公聽會，邀請政府人員及社會上有關係人員出席陳述證言、表示意見並提供相關資料。應邀出席人員非有正當理由，不得拒絕出席。」看起來沒什麼，對不對？但是社會上有關係人員有沒有包括我剛剛說的醫院、學校、媒體、新聞機構、公民記者、寺廟負責人及賞鳥協會的代表？有沒有？有關係的人可以包括這些，次長，你覺得呢？有關係之人很廣，有沒有明定排除？"],["陳次長明堂：就文字上來講，是全部包含在內。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還規定不得拒絕出席。","那我們來看一下，回到翁委員的版本，這個版本已經出委員會了，內容提到無故缺席要處三年以下有期徒刑，什麼叫「無故」？請問，「無故缺席」跟「非有正當理由，不得拒絕出席」這兩個意思一不一樣？請問次長。"],["陳次長明堂：無故缺席的話和沒有正當理由，在文字上是有點重疊性，不過基本上第585號解釋是說可以邀請人民協助調查，是有這個權限，但是在法條設計上，我們是建議委員們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：第585號是課以罰鍰嘛？"],["陳次長明堂：罰鍰是最後手段。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是啊，是最後手段嘛，那有說到刑責嗎？"],["陳次長明堂：在第585號解釋沒有提到刑責。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那秘書長，我請教一下。如果有委員強迫同僚要捐款，這個事情被寫成報導，不管是真是假，如果要調查這個事情，可以傳喚記者出席嗎？有媒體報導，說立法院有某黨團大腕要求同僚捐款，有人質疑這個報導有問題，要求聽證，要求調查，要求傳喚這個記者出席，假設這兩個條文通過，配套，請問該記者有拒絕出席的權利嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：記者報導大法官有解釋，某部分報導是有保護他的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們沒有喔，我們是請他出席啊，來接受調查啊。"],["周秘書長萬來：對，有保護他的情況。第585號是調查事項，而這個是報導，兩個是不一致的概念。"],["鍾委員佳濱：調查事項就是調查有沒有這件事啊，有沒有強迫同僚捐款啊，請媒體記者來說明一下你憑什麼寫這個報導啊。可不可以拒絕？拒絕要判三年以下有期徒刑。","秘書長、次長，今天本席在這裡很沈重地要說這個話，剛剛說到委員會中心主義，在委員會進行類同性質法案的併案審查，其目的就是要找出這些法條有沒有因為競合或勾連所造成對人民權利的侵犯，更不要說我們一開始就說到有釋字第585號的要求或限制，大家都很清楚，但是現在由於星期一的委員會大體討論被剝奪，逐條討論被沒收，其他委員、其他政黨的版本，包括他們自己同黨的版本也被封殺，就會出現這樣的情況。","另外，我們再設想一個情況，根據今天還沒有出委員會的呂玉玲委員立法院職權行使法第二十八條之四的規定：「行政院院長、各部會首長及相關出席立法院會議之政府人員，於接獲立法院邀請出席會議時，未經會議主席准假而缺席者，為藐視國會，處一年以下有期徒刑。」請問周秘書長，召委輪值主持會議，天天邀請行政院長出席，行政院長不來，可以判刑，行政院還能運作嗎？有沒有國外的立法例？"],["周秘書長萬來：報告委員，行政院長不到委員會來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那其他的部會首長就要囉？那就每天來開會，就不用上班了？","最後就是在場的傅委員版本的刑法第一百四十一條之一，已經出委員會了，本條規定，出席的這些人接受質詢的時候，為虛偽陳述，處三年以下有期徒刑，請問次長，你認為這裡拘束的是包括前面說的機關、公司行號、公私法人、財團法人、學校、社團、醫院，還是只限於行政機關？這裡面的主體是什麼？課予義務的主體是誰？對象是誰？"],["陳次長明堂：如果就這項條文的寫法，是包括全部。"],["鍾委員佳濱：包括人民？"],["陳次長明堂：所以我之前強調要有正當程序，就是在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們來看一下，同版本的第一百四十一條之二規定，如果是行政院官員在立法院接受立委總質詢，是總質詢，委員會質詢不算，反而是聽證程序中人民只要不來，就可能被處三年以下有期徒刑，行政院官員在總質詢的時候做出虛偽不實的陳述，處一年以下有期徒刑。請問秘書長，你覺得這兩個條文對人民課以刑責重，還是對行政官員課的刑責重？很明顯嘛！一個在三年以下，一個在一年以下。次長，三年以下和一年以下哪個重？"],["陳次長明堂：是三年以下重。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是啊。人民判得重，官員罰得少，究竟這些條文是要監督政府，還是要陷民於罪，我們請大家深思。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝鍾召委，也謝謝次長及秘書長。"],["主席（鍾委員佳濱）：好，接下來我們請翁曉玲委員詢答。"],["翁委員曉玲：我改書面。"],["主席：翁委員改書面。"],["委員翁曉玲書面質詢：","案由：本院翁曉玲委員，有鑑於本屆多位立委提出國會改革相關法案，針對質詢、聽證調查、文件調閱之違反增訂罰則。按此類罰則於行政訴訟法、民事訴訟法與刑事訴訟法皆有類似規定，故欲參採法院處罰實務情形，特於立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議，向司法院、法務部提出書面質詢。","說明：","一、我國訴訟法中，有針對證人違反到場、證言義務違反之罰則，下分述之：","(一)行政訴訟法第143條規定，證人違反到場義務可處以罰鍰，並得經再次通知仍不到場時拘提之。同法第148條規定，證人拒絕證言得處以罰鍰。又同法第169條規定，第三人無正當理由不從提出文書之命者，得處以罰鍰；必要時並得為強制處分。","(二)民事訴訟法第303條規定，證人無正當理由不到場，得處以罰鍰，並得經再次通知仍不到場時拘提之。","(三)刑事訴訟法第178條，證人無正當理由不到場，得處以罰鍰，並得拘提之。而同法第204條之3則規定，被告以外之人拒絕同法第204條第1項之身體檢查者，得處以罰鍰。","二、請司法院、法務部針對以下問題於5月1日前回覆。","1.自108年起迄今，違反行政訴訟法143條、第148條、第169條之處罰案件數、違規行為態樣、個案罰鍰金額等三項統計列表。","2.自108年起迄今，違反民事訴訟法第303條之處罰案件數、違規行為態樣、個案罰鍰金額等三項統計列表。","3.自108年起迄今，違反刑事訴訟法第178條、第204條之3第1項之處罰案件數、違規行為態樣、個案罰鍰金額等三項之統計列表。"],["主席：接下來請賴士葆委員詢答、賴士葆、賴士葆委員，賴士葆委員不在。","所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","好，因為時間的關係，我們先休息，下午兩點半繼續開會。","休息（12時56分）","繼續開會（14時30分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.835968750000001,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.40471875,"end":12.636593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.974093750000002,"end":15.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.84284375,"end":17.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.10409375,"end":20.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.06159375,"end":24.297218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.26784375,"end":24.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.297218750000003,"end":24.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.44909375,"end":39.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.80534375,"end":43.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.38284375,"end":45.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.20096875,"end":48.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.103468750000005,"end":59.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.32534375,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.384093750000005,"end":64.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.37534375,"end":72.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.56784375000001,"end":78.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.63471875,"end":81.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.41909375,"end":83.64659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.25409375000001,"end":89.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.06346875,"end":99.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.61034375000001,"end":101.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.82096875,"end":104.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.21284375,"end":107.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.84534375000001,"end":111.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.55784375,"end":113.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.31284375000001,"end":115.23659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.72596875,"end":120.48471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.97409375000001,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.66471875000002,"end":130.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.49159375000002,"end":135.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.11096875,"end":139.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.14409375,"end":141.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.54471875000002,"end":143.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.65409375000002,"end":144.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.42159375,"end":148.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.49721875,"end":150.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.83471875,"end":148.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.02034375000002,"end":149.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.92721875,"end":151.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.83846875,"end":153.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.17159375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.20534375,"end":157.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.33534375000002,"end":159.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.58409375000002,"end":161.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.91284375,"end":162.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.50346875,"end":162.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.19534375,"end":163.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.66346875000002,"end":166.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.70534375,"end":168.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.34221875,"end":169.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.77659375000002,"end":170.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.41346875000002,"end":175.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.45909375000002,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.97346875000002,"end":179.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.00284375,"end":200.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.84346875,"end":202.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.88534375,"end":205.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.04096875000002,"end":207.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.63534375,"end":209.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.65221875,"end":213.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.85409375,"end":219.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.14846875,"end":221.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.83596875,"end":224.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.31659375,"end":225.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.34596875000003,"end":226.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.05034375000002,"end":229.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.72909375,"end":242.18721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.62596875000003,"end":244.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.12346875000003,"end":249.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.30409375000002,"end":252.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.85221875000002,"end":255.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.43409375000002,"end":258.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.48409375,"end":262.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.92659375,"end":265.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.20471875000004,"end":266.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.82471875000005,"end":267.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.61784375,"end":281.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.38784375,"end":282.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.85596875000005,"end":285.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.79221875,"end":286.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.46284375,"end":289.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.36971875,"end":291.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.63096875,"end":292.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.60971875,"end":295.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.96784375000004,"end":297.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.94221875,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.01784375,"end":300.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.75596875,"end":304.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.40534375000004,"end":307.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.81409375000004,"end":310.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.32846875,"end":312.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.35346875000005,"end":312.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.53909375,"end":312.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.80909375000005,"end":312.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.85971875,"end":316.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.99471875,"end":313.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.67346875000004,"end":318.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.49596875000003,"end":320.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.95534375,"end":329.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.32096875,"end":346.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.44534375,"end":348.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.24659375000005,"end":350.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.57971875000004,"end":351.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.71034375000005,"end":351.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.43159375000005,"end":356.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.81909375000004,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.42221875,"end":359.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.44721875000005,"end":361.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.21909375,"end":363.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.00784375,"end":365.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.74159375000005,"end":367.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.76659375,"end":373.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.71096875,"end":374.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.47034375000004,"end":376.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.20409375,"end":378.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.38096875,"end":380.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.49034375,"end":382.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.89096875,"end":384.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.40534375000004,"end":385.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.36721875,"end":388.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.42159375,"end":391.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.48846875000004,"end":417.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.01909375,"end":401.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.90909375,"end":404.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.09221875000003,"end":422.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.27784375000005,"end":418.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.83409375,"end":431.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.30534375,"end":434.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.52409375,"end":436.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.31721875000005,"end":436.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.38034375,"end":440.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.21096875,"end":442.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.29096875000005,"end":443.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.01221875000005,"end":457.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.47846875000005,"end":463.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.80659375000005,"end":466.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.60346875000005,"end":468.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.63284375,"end":470.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.23159375000006,"end":472.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.90221875000003,"end":474.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.28596875000005,"end":475.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.17596875000004,"end":477.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.50909375000003,"end":479.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.58034375000005,"end":481.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.47034375000004,"end":485.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.92971875,"end":500.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.40409375,"end":502.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.69909375000003,"end":505.36971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.48784375,"end":507.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.91784375000003,"end":511.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.6428437500001,"end":514.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.0390937500001,"end":516.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.2453437500001,"end":518.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.8359687500001,"end":520.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.1140937499999,"end":531.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.4584687500001,"end":537.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.0903437500001,"end":540.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.55409375,"end":542.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.4734687499999,"end":546.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.13534375,"end":547.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.8103437500001,"end":549.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.4640937500001,"end":552.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.8559687500001,"end":561.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.43784375,"end":555.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.25971875,"end":561.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.49596875,"end":561.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.51284375,"end":562.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.0359687499999,"end":562.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.89659375,"end":562.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.93034375,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.9722187500001,"end":567.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.9084687500001,"end":569.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.35534375,"end":576.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.97034375,"end":589.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.5422187500001,"end":593.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.5915937500001,"end":599.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.2240937500001,"end":601.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.6540937500001,"end":604.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.6497187500001,"end":612.2222187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.871,"end":17.323,"text":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席求證五千萬首長、官員會長、公眾夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請我們今天最忙的周秘書長還有第二忙的陳次長"},{"start":18.151,"end":20.213,"text":"國會如果審查機制失靈,倉促修法會獻名於罪,而且會造成媒體噤聲,企業屈服。"},{"start":39.89,"end":58.922,"text":"我們翁委員版的刑法140之一已經出委員會了。他這裡面說條文內容就這麼多,其他藐視國會之行為處三年以下有其徒刑。請問周秘書長,經過本週一的逐條審查,你認為翁委員版本的其他藐視國會行為是哪些行為?你想得到的?"},{"start":65.171,"end":83.268,"text":"那你覺得這樣的一個描述用八個字其他描述國會行為有沒有符合罪行法定原則在一個刑法140之一的條文修法的法案當中用這樣的文字描述有沒有符合這樣的罪行法定原則"},{"start":84.332,"end":104.295,"text":"很困難思考一下,次長你覺得呢?依照您在法律上的認知的見解。基本上既處罰明確性言者的話,盡量不要用不確定的法律概念。那這幾個字其實在目前文字上看起來是不確定的法律概念。好,謝謝我知道次長會答,因為您的報告就是這樣寫。"},{"start":106.377,"end":122.672,"text":"所以我們往下看可是這樣的一個條文已經送出委員會了那會有什麼問題我們來看一下接下來同樣公務員的版本立法院職權行使法第45條還沒有出委員會就是今天要審的他說立法院經院會決議的調查委員會委員會決議設調查專案小組要求特定的機關"},{"start":129.739,"end":156.244,"text":"法人、人民團體及個人聽證並提供文件資料及檔案。請問一下秘書長你在看資料還是我問次長好了這裡的法人有沒有包括公司、學校、醫院?法人的話包括公司法人那機關有沒有包括獨立機關?包括公平會?都包括在內人民團體有沒有包括一般的賞鳥協會?"},{"start":158.545,"end":163.524,"text":"個人有沒有包含公民記者?所以說"},{"start":164.724,"end":192.236,"text":"一旦這個條文在今天大家的意見、傾向要把它完成那它會跟翁委員同樣已出委員會的刑法140之一的版本相扣連只要這兩個條文一起通過未來在我們本國不管你是行政機關還是獨立機關不管你是公司法人、財團法人、社團法人你是醫院、你是學校、你是廟室、你是長鳥協會、你是公民記者你都有義務來"},{"start":194.397,"end":206.622,"text":"應立法院要求聽證而聽證的時候你就是接受質詢拒絕提供資料要處三年以下有期徒刑請問秘書長你覺得這兩條這樣子一起看您覺得有問題嗎?"},{"start":209.673,"end":229.216,"text":"因為你在調查說要到585號他一定有一個調查資料我只說我沒有直接因為585號大家太多了條文現在看起來設計這兩個併在一起很可怕我問莊秘書長如果有立委幫婆婆喬貸款不成可以要求來應要來聽證提供資料如果拒絕還要判刑你覺得有這樣的情況會發生嗎"},{"start":230.765,"end":257.911,"text":"因為這一個跟中委員報告啦他應該不管是院會或委員會他成立調查委員會調查小組他一定是合意的不會他個人啦不會他個人的一個因素啦當然合意立法院我們合意機關都是有一個合意的過程但是我們也看到很多合意的過程所覺得結果這樣的極端情況有可能發生會讓貸款銀行不知道如何是好我們往下看"},{"start":259.534,"end":286.341,"text":"接下來我們看到這是楊瓊英委員的版本已經出委員會了在本週一雖然我們保留他說各委員會為了審查閱會交付制議案德一憲法第67條第二項規定舉行公聽會邀請政府人員及社會上有關係的人員來出席陳述證言表示意見或提供相關的資料如果出席人員非有正當理由不得拒絕出席看起來沒什麼對不對"},{"start":287.501,"end":300.752,"text":"但是社會上有關系的人員有沒有包括我剛剛說的醫院、學校、媒體、新聞機構、公民記者、廟室負責人還有商鳥協會的代表有沒有"},{"start":301.806,"end":328.866,"text":"有關係之人可以報告這些。次長你覺得呢?有關係之人很廣啊有沒有名諜排除?就文字上來講是全部包含在內啦那還規定不得拒絕出席喔那我們來看一下回到翁委員的版本已經出委員會的無故缺席啊要處三年以下的有期徒刑啊無故有沒有正當理由說到無故請問無故缺席跟非有正當理由不得拒絕出席兩個意思一不一樣請問次長"},{"start":338.446,"end":355.955,"text":"五八五號解釋是說邀請人民可以參加調查是有這個權限但是法條設計上我們是建議委員們五八五號有說它是可以什麼滑環嘛那滑環是最後手段嗎是啊最後手段嘛那有多少刑責嗎在五八五號解釋是沒有提到刑責的問題好來秘書長我請教一下"},{"start":356.914,"end":376.185,"text":"如果有委員強迫同僚要捐款,這個事情被寫成報導,不管是真是假,那可以傳喚記者出席嗎?如果要調查這個事情,有報紙、媒體報導啊,說有立法院啊,有某黨、黨團,那個大碗要求同僚要捐款,質疑這個報導有問題,那要求聽證,要求調查,那傳喚這個記者來出席,"},{"start":385.438,"end":391.618,"text":"你覺得在假設這兩個條文通過配套,請問該記者有拒絕出席的權利嗎?"},{"start":393.764,"end":422.102,"text":"記者報道他本來就文到關有做解釋他有我不問他是他有報道他是有保護我們沒有我們就請他來來出席啊不是你來接受調查對有保護他的一個情況大概他他舉個例來講記者有報道他有名字吧那認為他這個有他因為本身在585號這一個解釋裡面是調查事項是報道這兩個是不能不不一致的不一致的概念"},{"start":423.124,"end":440.02,"text":"調查事項就要調查有沒有這件事啊有沒有強迫同僚捐款啊請媒體來記者來說明一下你憑什麼寫這個報導啊可不可以拒絕呢拒絕要判三年以下有期徒刑啊秘書長、市長今天本席在這裡很沉重的要做這個話"},{"start":441.28,"end":468.077,"text":"其實立法院剛剛說到委員會中心主義在委員會進行類同性質法案的併案審查其目的就是要找出這些法條有沒有因為競合或是勾連所造成對人民權利的侵犯更不要我們從一開始就說到585號的四字四字585號的要求或限制大家都很清楚但是現在由於星期一的委員會大體討論被剝奪主條討論被沒收"},{"start":471.297,"end":500.392,"text":"其他委員﹑其他政黨的版本﹑包括他們自己同黨的版本﹑也被封殺。就會出現這樣的情況,我們往下看。另外,我們再設想一個情況根據呂玉玲委員﹑就是今天還沒有出委員會的版本﹐她的立法院職權行使法第28條之四﹐行政院長、各部會首長及相關出席立法院會議之政府人員在接獲立法院邀請出席會議時,未經會議主席准假有缺席者,為藐視國會,處一年以下有期徒刑。"},{"start":501.685,"end":515.923,"text":"請問周秘書長,召委輪值主持會議,天天邀請行政院長出席,不但還可以判刑,行政院還能運作嗎?有沒有國外的立法力?包括委員,因為行政院長不到委員會來,"},{"start":518.901,"end":541.599,"text":"那其他的部會首長就要囉,那就來每天來開會就不用來不用上班了最後最後因為時間關係我不要拖了最後就是我們在場副委員版本刑法14條之一已經出委員會了對於出席的這些人接受質詢的時候他如果虛位陳述三年以下有提出行請問次長你認為這裡居住的是包括前面說的機關"},{"start":543.513,"end":563.143,"text":"公司行號、公司法人、財團法人、學校、社團、醫院還是只限於行政機關?這裡面的主體是什麼?課與義務的主體是誰?對象是誰?如果就這樣條文的寫是包括全部啦。包括人民。但是所以我剛才前面說,之前我想說要正當程序,就是在程序上。好,那我們來看一下齁,同版本,怎麼不見了?"},{"start":565.011,"end":593.129,"text":"同版本的第一是一條之二,如果是行政院官員在立法院接受立委總質詢,總質詢,委員會質詢不算,反而是人民只要不來就有三年以下聽證程序或聽證委程序,行政院官員要在總質詢的時候需未不時處一年以下有期徒刑。請問民主黨你覺得這兩個條文對人民的刻以刑責重還是對行政官員刻著的刑責重?"},{"start":597.605,"end":598.907,"text":"三、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條之三及第二十八條之四條文"}]}},{"id":"151471","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151471","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445c7a90283da108afd51d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94b4a53015686257145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"12:31:52 - 12:41:20","影片長度":"00:09:28","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":568,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:41:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:31:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":800,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（12時32分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：游委員好。"],["游委員顥：部長好，延續剛才許多委員提到包括這次交通安全，不管是修法的部分，還有許多不管是行人用路權，包括上次的研討會，相信都已經經過許多的探討。本席想要在這裡先就教一下部長，在地震的時候，我知道交通部也全面協助救災，那時候你特別出席了公聽會，公聽會到現在也差不多有2個禮拜，當時公聽會有許多團體，包括委員其實都有表達一些建議和看法，不管是駕駛人團體還是用路人團體，本席想要請教，針對上次公聽會所做的那麼多重點或結論，交通部對於公聽會的這些建言、建議有沒有提出什麼具體回應？"],["王部長國材：那天討論完以後，大概有幾項我個人覺得是可以討論的，第一個就是身心障礙停車位的占用，我個人支持還是納到可以檢舉的項目，因為身心障礙者找停車位有時候不是那麼容易。另外也有提到未戴安全帽可不可以開放檢舉這件事，因為未戴安全帽發生車禍是很危險的，這部分我覺得可以討論。這次在這十項裡面，我們用1,200元是找到道交條例和裁罰細則有的基礎下的產物，但是各個委員所談到單項裡面，我看今天委員都有談到，單項裡面我覺得可以討論，如果它本身是大家覺得危險的，我是覺得可以討論。"],["游委員顥：所以在上次公聽會完了之後，主要這兩點你是認為應該要加入的？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["游委員顥：最主要是公聽會當天沒有辦法詢答，所以許多的建議希望具體的能夠讓交通部聽到，而且被納入，部長也針對這兩點有做具體的回應，因為這次公聽會大家積極的準備，尤其這些團體遠道而來，所以這些重點的一些建議，我希望能夠具體實踐，不能船過水無痕，所以部長是有做具體回應的？"],["王部長國材：是，我想今天詢答完，未來可能就是委員的提案，歡迎委員覺得哪一些單項建議就提案。"],["游委員顥：我辦公室有在整理。接著請教，警政署在過去一年加強執法，在降低行人路口死傷及死亡方面成效如何？因為今天警政署有來，從去年5月到今年3月共開出了12.3萬多張路口不禮讓行人的紅單，開的單子非常多，你覺得對於改善死傷的數據，去年和今年績效如何？"],["劉組長振安：執法之後還有其他的宣導，有關於行人死亡的部分，112年比110年死亡減少了41人，這個部分是有比較明顯的減少，當然，這個減少的數字我們還是不滿意，還是要繼續配合各個單位來加強執法。"],["王部長國材：行人死亡少了14人。"],["游委員顥：沒關係，因為我們是拿區間比較，不管區間怎麼做比較，14人也好，1人也好，績效和成效……"],["王部長國材：還要持續加強，還不夠。"],["游委員顥：所以還不是很滿意。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["游委員顥：那就繼續改善。同樣的，這也牽扯出不管是剛才其他委員提到的宣導部分，剛才看到楊瓊瓔委員、黃國昌委員有提到，其實在許多的宣導上面還是不夠的，不管是道安講習，這不是說部長去道安講習，而是說許多的民眾不管是被罰到案之外，在許多的學校或民眾的交通觀念。我想就教部長，我在地方跑那麼多活動，因為我是區域立委，所以我看到警察局有辦交通講習的方式，或者結合社團，可是在學校或各個部分所舉辦的場次和舉辦的成效、舉辦的效果，是不是可以請交通部簡短回答？"],["王部長國材：第一個，現在我們跟交通部有一個教材，它是五階段教材，一、二年級一套、三及四、五及六，然後國中、高中，總共五套，現在這個教育已經有很多的版本，像康軒也都納入教材裡面。第二個，在老人的部分，我們現在大概有1,600個路老師，我們每年都增加一些，他就到各個老人活動的活動中心、活動場所做道安的宣導，大概會從這幾個。學校有時候在朝會也是有類似的宣導活動，大概是這樣。"],["游委員顥：本席還是建議一下，在宣導的部分確實還是不夠的，像我和團隊全面在跑地方的各種活動，交通安全的場次在宣導的部分，第一就是場次不夠、次數不夠、面向不夠廣。還有受眾的部分，包括這些民眾能夠普遍接受這個講習、宣導的其實還需要多加強。甚至不管是在電視或網路上，希望持續加強。剛才國昌委員有提到那個畫面，就是大貨車輪下的部分，其實有時候我們在地方上砂石車專用道還是常常會發現砂石車在開，民眾也還是騎著機車從旁邊要超越砂石車，這個都是待宣導的部分。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["游委員顥：最後本席還是想針對駕駛人的工作權，有關於他們提到卸貨或計程車停靠的部分，因為時間有限，本席直接建議，不管是對於行人或許多駕駛人的部分去做法規檢討的時候，其實像現在不斷修正的法規，交通部的規劃，各縣市要能夠配合，在許多重要、人常常出入的商圈街道能夠重新再去規劃、劃設他們的停車格。一般來講都是民眾反映，民意代表去做會勘、現勘，可是如何做整體的，不管是針對計程車或許多的卸貨區，能夠做個通盤檢討，由交通部這邊主動來主導，讓縣市政府來配合，這樣才能有效的減低不管是被違規檢舉或被平常開罰的情況，想請教一下部長有沒有方案，以及多久完成？"],["王部長國材：現在已經有方案，包括專用停車格的部分、劃黃線的部分，我們階段性的成果是在今年6月底以後，就各縣市執行的成果會回報。的確，這就是你所提到的，環境如果沒有弄好，變成他不得不違規，這就是我們在執法上的理由比較不充分，這也是我們這次修法裡面，這些相關的環境配套是政府應該負的責任，所以我們現在用4年400億元的預算補助地方政府，包括南投都可以來申請，我們都會補助它去做人行、停車格的設施，我想這部分就是同時，我非常同意你剛談到的教育，工程現在也在做，執法可能目前要做一些權宜的調整。"],["游委員顥：最後一句，6月底前要請部內的同仁把各縣市的執行和通盤檢討改善的情況跟交通委員會委員報告。"],["王部長國材：好，沒問題。"],["主席：登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：","報告及詢答完畢，委員陳俊宇所提書面質詢列入紀錄，並刊登公報；委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請交通部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.602843750000002,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.459093750000001,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.927218750000002,"end":15.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.94409375,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.53471875,"end":16.922843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.922843750000002,"end":16.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.20909375,"end":21.242843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.242843750000002,"end":21.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.96846875,"end":81.73971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.17846875000001,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.98846875000001,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.62909375000001,"end":89.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.02534375,"end":93.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.67034375,"end":102.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.29346875,"end":107.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.62596875000001,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.34659375000001,"end":114.86534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.96659375,"end":116.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.45159375,"end":116.90721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.12659375000001,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.76284375,"end":126.99846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.28534375000001,"end":128.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.31471875,"end":133.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.03534375,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.04346875000002,"end":139.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.02596875,"end":145.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.27846875,"end":145.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.45971875,"end":146.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.98284375,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.02909375000002,"end":177.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.43346875,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.61909375000002,"end":151.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.02909375000002,"end":174.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.35346875000002,"end":183.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.54659375,"end":188.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.56346875,"end":184.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.36909375000002,"end":188.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.57534375,"end":216.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.67909375000002,"end":199.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.81409375,"end":199.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.70596875,"end":222.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.37159375000002,"end":224.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.85659375,"end":231.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.89346875,"end":232.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.73284375000003,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.76846875,"end":251.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.53596875000002,"end":251.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.05909375000002,"end":255.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.14721875,"end":265.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.62346875000003,"end":259.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.91346875,"end":268.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.02721875000003,"end":268.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.19159375000004,"end":268.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.61346875000004,"end":269.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.66409375,"end":268.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.30534375,"end":269.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.72721875,"end":271.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.02659375,"end":271.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.11096875000004,"end":271.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.58346875,"end":323.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.53721875,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.45221875000004,"end":330.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.15659375,"end":331.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.62471875,"end":332.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.68784375,"end":333.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.83534375000005,"end":335.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.79284375000003,"end":337.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.20596875,"end":344.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.31471875,"end":351.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.27971875000003,"end":355.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.78971875,"end":361.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.93221875,"end":371.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.73659375,"end":374.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.74034375,"end":377.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.71034375000005,"end":467.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.67159375,"end":382.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.90784375000004,"end":383.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.55471875,"end":429.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.16471875,"end":467.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.33346875,"end":499.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.45534375000005,"end":498.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.63659375000003,"end":521.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.9072187500001,"end":530.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.9353437500001,"end":538.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.2084687500001,"end":543.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.08096875,"end":548.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.26596875,"end":551.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.8940937500001,"end":555.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.7078437499999,"end":557.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.7665937500001,"end":567.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.46596875,"end":565.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.4740937500001,"end":567.9422187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.685,"end":13.449,"text":"報告 請王部長"},{"start":21.386,"end":44.106,"text":"有緣好謝謝部長好那延續了剛才許多委員提到包括這一次的交通安全其實不管是修法的部分那還有許多不管是行人用路權那其包括上次的研討會那相信都已經經過了許多的探討那本期想要在這裡先就教一下部長"},{"start":44.767,"end":66.138,"text":"但那時候在地震的時候我知道交通部也是在全面的在協助救災啦那時候您也特別來出席了公聽會那公聽會到現在也差不多有兩個禮拜那時候的公聽會許多的團體包括委員其實都有表達很多的一些建議跟看法"},{"start":66.658,"end":81.283,"text":"不管是駕駛人的團體或是用路人的團體那本人想要請教一下針對那次的公聽會所做的那麼多的一個重點或是結論交通部對於公聽會的這些建言建議有沒有提出什麼樣的具體回應"},{"start":83.134,"end":106.387,"text":"就是討論完以後大概有幾項我個人是覺得是可以討論的其中第一個就是身心障礙停車位的占用我個人是支持這個還是納到可以檢舉的項目因為身心障礙者他找這個停車位有時候不是那麼容易然後另外也有談到這個未戴安全帽可不可以開放檢舉這件事"},{"start":107.688,"end":135.211,"text":"那因為未待安全報事實上是一個很危險的發生車很危險的這部分我覺得可以討論我想說在這一次在這十項裡面我們用一二零零是主要是找到道交條例跟財劃細則有的這個基礎下的產物但是的確各個委員所談到單項裡面我看今天委員都有談到單項裡面我覺得可以討論如果它本身是"},{"start":136.192,"end":163.171,"text":"是大家覺得是這個危險的我是覺得可以討論所以在上次的公聽會完了之後主要這兩點是認為應該要加入納入的因為最主要是公聽會當天沒有辦法去做詢答嘛所以說許多的建議來講希望能夠具體的能夠被交通部聽到而且能夠被納入那所以部長也針對這兩點的話有做一個具體的回應因為"},{"start":164.051,"end":188.326,"text":"這些公督會大家積極地準備,尤其這些團體還遠道而來,所以這些重點的一些建議啊,所以我是希望能夠去具體時間也不能夠傳過所無痕啊,那所以部長是有做具體回應。是,我想我想那個今天詢答完可能未來就是委員的提案啊,我想也歡迎委員覺得哪一些單項,一些建議就可以提案。這個剛剛是有在做整理。對,就在提案是。"},{"start":189.027,"end":202.927,"text":"對那再來的話我想接著請教一下警政署在過去一年加強執法在降低行人入口死傷及死亡方面成效如何那因為今天警政署有來那在去年5月到今年3月共開出了12.3萬多張的紅單"},{"start":205.43,"end":222.649,"text":"那路口不理讓行人那這樣子的開的這個單數是非常的多但是想問一下那這樣子在去年跟今年對這個績效如何?你覺得對改善這個死傷的這個數據?希望請警政署回答一下"},{"start":224.934,"end":250.225,"text":"有執法之後還有其他的宣導在有關於行人死亡的這個部分在112年的部分比112年死亡減少了41人那這個部分是有比較明確的就是明顯的這個減少那當然這個減少我們還是不滿意還是要繼續那配合各個單位來加強來執法"},{"start":252.096,"end":267.873,"text":"那個新人少了14人啦。死亡少14人。14人。好沒關係因為我們是拿那個區間比較但是不管是區間怎麼樣去做比較14人也好、一人也好但是這個績效跟成效我相信還要持續加強所以說還不夠還不夠嘛"},{"start":269.855,"end":297.494,"text":"所以還不是很滿意嗎?那就繼續改善那同樣的這也牽扯出不管是剛才其他委員有提到的宣導的部分不管剛才楊瓊英委員還有包括黃國昌委員有提到那其實在許多的宣導上面是還是不夠的那不管是到案講習這不是說部長去到案講習而是說大家在許多的民眾不管是被罰的去到案之外在許多的學校或是民眾"},{"start":299.014,"end":302.555,"text":"交通部主管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案。"},{"start":324.803,"end":351.13,"text":"第一個現在我們跟教育部有一個教材他是叫五階段教材一萬年級一套三四然後五六然後高中、高中總共五套那現在這個教育已經納到有很多的版本了看康軒他們納到教材裡面這是在裡面的然後第二個是在老人的部分老人部分我們現在有大概一千六百人的路老師"},{"start":352.47,"end":352.631,"text":"報告報告"},{"start":371.969,"end":387.892,"text":"我本期還是建議一下就是說在這個宣導的部分其實確實還是不夠那因為如果說像是我跟團隊全面在跑地方的各種活動其實在交通安全的這個場次那在這個宣導的部分"},{"start":388.533,"end":415.662,"text":"第一就是場次不夠、次數不夠、面相不夠管還對於受眾的部分包括這些民眾他們其實能夠的普遍的在接受這個講習跟跟這個宣導的其實需要再做持續加強甚至在不管是電視或是網路上其實需要持續加強因為剛才國昌委員有提到那個畫面嘛就是大貨車這個輪廈的部分所以我們其實在地方上有時候在這個"},{"start":416.682,"end":442.148,"text":"殺死車專用道還是常常會發現殺死車在開民眾也還是騎著機車所以旁邊要超越殺死車所以說這個部分都還是在於宣導的部分最後的話本席還是想要針對駕駛人的工作權有關於他們有在提到有包括在卸貨或是計程車他們在停靠的部分本席直接建議因為時間有限"},{"start":443.428,"end":467.723,"text":"因為如果在做於交通不管是行人或是包括許多駕駛人的部分去做法規的檢討的時候其實像現在的不斷的修正的法規應該交通部如何規劃各縣市政府能夠配合在許多重要人常常出入的商街街道能夠重新再去規劃劃設他們的這個停車格不管是說"},{"start":468.664,"end":496.994,"text":"因為一般來講都是民眾反映民意代表到最後來去做會刊、縣刊可是如何做整體的一個針對不管是計程車或者是包括我們許多的卸貨區來能夠做一個通盤檢討而且由教育部的那個交通部這邊主動交通部主動來去主導讓縣市政府來配合這樣子也才能有效的減低不管是被檢舉違規檢舉或是平常在在被開罰的情況想請教一下部長"},{"start":499.936,"end":521.192,"text":"現在已經有方案就是包括這個剛才停車這個專用停車格的部分包括劃黃線的部分我們階段性的成果是在今年6月底就各縣市執行的成果會回報那的確就是說這個就是這個您之前所談到的就是說環境如果沒有弄好變成他"},{"start":521.972,"end":543.392,"text":"不得不違規,那這個就是我們在執法上的這個理由比較不充分。這也是這次我們修法裡面就是說這些相關的環境的配套是政府應該負的責任。所以我們現在有4年4百億的預算在補助地方政府,包括南投都可以來申請,我們都會補助他去做這些人行停車格的設施。"},{"start":544.193,"end":566.629,"text":"我想這部分就是同時說非常同意就是說教育你剛才談到教育那工程現在在做然後執法可能在目前要做一些前移的調整最後一句就是6月底前的時候到時候還是請部內的同仁把各縣市的一個執行跟通販檢討改善的情況也跟交通委員會委員做報告謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151470","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151470","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453bf994b25fe4e88251d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94a711fa33d5d0e6b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:23:52 - 12:31:36","影片長度":"00:07:44","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":464,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:31:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:23:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":753,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時23分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好，我相信這段時間限縮用路人檢舉一些違規的態樣，正反兩邊很大的聲音您都有聽到嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["黃委員國昌：在您今天所提出的書面報告當中，你點到這次的修法是希望以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["黃委員國昌：工程的改善其實你也知道路權團體大家都支持，我們整個道路的設計上可以容納更多不同的需求，這個大方向上大家都同意，那現在大家產生最大的爭執是什麼？產生最大的爭執是說你的工程改善手段先做代替監理執法，你覺得工程改善手段要多久？"],["王部長國材：跟黃委員報告，前幾天才三讀通過行人安全設施條例。"],["黃委員國昌：這個我知道。"],["王部長國材：第二個是我們現在有4年400億元，從113年總共有4年400億元的計畫。"],["黃委員國昌：你的意思是4年可以改善好？"],["王部長國材：我希望那時候全國該做的人行道、什麼該做的都做好。"],["黃委員國昌：4年嗎？"],["王部長國材：對，但不是說到4年才有完整個結果，階段性一直改善。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你認為什麼時候先替代監理執行手段的替代可以完成？"],["王部長國材：事實上也不見得要等到4年。"],["黃委員國昌：會比4年還短嗎？"],["王部長國材：如果地方政府很積極，我們現在是補助，像今年是全部補助，如果做得好，當然……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，部長，你要卸任以前提出一個很重要的目標，我相信下一屆的交通部部長聽到你今天講的，四年之內這件事情要做完。當然，這次行政院的修法理由提到「相關職業工會反映已嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權，亦造成警察機關執法量能龐大負擔」。我們就事論事來看，當道路交通設計上面，你現在歸咎於這個，產生了一些相衝突狀態的時候，我一向的立場是我們要就事論事，可能不是一個全有全無的，也不是說你們這次提出來的，行人路權團體大家都要照單全收，我們還是要就事論事，一點一點來看。"],["王部長國材：了解。"],["黃委員國昌：這樣的立場部長贊不贊成？"],["王部長國材：我贊成，這次的確我們要找平衡點，我們從1,200元，這有十項。"],["黃委員國昌：我現在關心的倒不是錢的事情，因為錢的事情反映出來的是它在行政罰鍰上面的可罰性、可責難性有多高，但我現在思考的觀點是說當你用錢當標準的時候會不會有盲點？所謂有盲點是說我們現在是希望在我們的道路交通設計各方面，講不完善可能講得比較客氣，在這之前，兩邊的利害關係我們怎麼去平衡，行人路權團體因為你去年夏天也上過凱道，你也做過承諾，所以對他們來講，交通部現在的態度讓他們有一點難以接受，所以我才說是不是有可能不要全有全無，具體來看。第一，他們說是卸貨停車格不足，這是他們反映出來的心聲，但是卸貨停車格不足用身心專用停車位這樣好嗎？這樣對我們的身心障礙朋友真的好嗎？這個利害關係的平衡部長覺得呢？"],["王部長國材：事實上，這十項裡面這一項我覺得可以繼續開放民眾檢舉，我覺得身障專用停車位這個部分比較嚴肅，因為他們停車位已經很少了，我覺得這十項裡面的這一項我是支持。"],["黃委員國昌：部長，我喜歡你這樣的態度，就事論事嘛！也不要因為行政院有提版本出來就要硬幹到底，第一項你已經點頭了，那我們再看第二項，人行道的部分，你覺得呢？你看這個相片是一個滿關心路人團體，也是我自己滿好的朋友，但我提出來質詢不是因為他是我的好朋友，是為了所有的行人，車子插這樣是要怎麼過？這個太離譜了吧！"],["王部長國材：這個就是你剛才談到的環境沒有整頓好的。"],["黃委員國昌：對，他停在紅線上是一回事，他是整臺車插在人行道上，這樣都不能檢舉，到底怎樣才能檢舉？我們有時候用抽象的文字不容易描述具體的狀況，看一張照片勝過千言萬語。"],["王部長國材：這個就是打110，警察馬上來處理，而且地方的停管單位有拖吊車也可以直接拖吊。"],["黃委員國昌：今天警政署有來嗎？警政署有沒有統計過，依現在警察同仁的負擔，如果是這種狀況，我打電話過去，大概幾分鐘可以趕到？"],["劉組長振安：這個部分我們沒辦法把握，因為要看110當時接受到多少案件。"],["黃委員國昌：部長有沒有聽到警政署講的。"],["王部長國材：我想這部分繼續溝通，這個是因為停車……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，主席站起來了，我現在只關心第三個態樣，這種大型的砂石車、「拖拉庫」倒車的時候常常釀成悲劇，這我們常看到，你說大型車倒車釀成悲劇這樣誇張的狀況，你叫警察來，「拖拉庫」早就走了，部長你同不同意？"],["王部長國材：我想這個部分的確我們這次1,200元，你如果每一項去討論，看起來好像每一項都開放，但是的確在整個……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有、沒有！部長不要把我具體問題又抽象化，你答詢的技巧非常厲害，試圖把具體問題又抽象化，這為什麼會有關係，因為真的有很多人是因為這樣喪命輪下，人命最重要。第二個，這種態樣你打電話叫警察來，車子早就不知道去哪了。部長，這一點你覺得有沒有需要再考慮的地方？"],["王部長國材：可以討論。"],["黃委員國昌：可以討論嘛！主席站起來了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員，發言完畢。","現在請陳雪生委員，陳雪生委員、陳雪生委員不在。","現在請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.14034375,"end":5.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.236593750000001,"end":7.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.574093750000001,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.864718750000002,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.09596875,"end":21.293468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.58534375,"end":16.652843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.512843750000002,"end":35.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.59721875,"end":24.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.60784375,"end":35.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.721593750000004,"end":40.868468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.44221875,"end":43.399718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.838468750000004,"end":49.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.31034375,"end":48.782843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.187843750000006,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.571593750000005,"end":50.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.35596875,"end":53.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.118468750000005,"end":61.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.50659375,"end":65.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.41721875,"end":68.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.15534375,"end":68.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.30721875,"end":68.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.55596875,"end":70.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.31096875,"end":73.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.39534375000001,"end":72.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.32346875,"end":72.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.64409375000001,"end":72.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.58909375,"end":76.47471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.98096875,"end":78.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.90471875,"end":92.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.62971875000001,"end":86.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.53971875,"end":94.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.59846875000001,"end":99.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.99846875,"end":100.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.52159375000001,"end":106.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.46659375,"end":102.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.98909375000001,"end":112.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.24221875,"end":106.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.14409375000001,"end":127.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.65846875000001,"end":115.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.04096875,"end":125.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.89721875000001,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.98471875,"end":153.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.30534375000002,"end":134.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.71159375000002,"end":155.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.73659375,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.84471875,"end":165.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.83159375000002,"end":169.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.02409375000002,"end":185.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.25159375,"end":181.90971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.72346875000002,"end":190.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.97159375,"end":191.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.56221875,"end":191.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.96721875,"end":193.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.87409375000001,"end":194.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.32971875,"end":202.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.92346875,"end":201.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.05846875,"end":202.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.53096875,"end":213.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.88471875000002,"end":206.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.95221875000001,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.07346875000002,"end":219.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.64221875,"end":246.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.57846875,"end":222.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.64596875,"end":222.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.50409375,"end":239.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.14846875,"end":247.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.73909375000002,"end":252.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.03784375,"end":256.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.96971875,"end":259.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.88909375000003,"end":270.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.62159375000005,"end":275.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.65034375,"end":279.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.30784375,"end":280.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.13471875,"end":282.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.22721875,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.23971875,"end":284.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.62784375,"end":291.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.58846875,"end":307.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.08596875,"end":296.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.53721875,"end":297.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.71284375000005,"end":310.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.81784375,"end":311.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.96534375000005,"end":312.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.26909375,"end":313.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.92284375,"end":314.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.13784375,"end":316.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.77471875000003,"end":321.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.49971875,"end":324.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.24596875000003,"end":327.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.24971875,"end":336.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.10909375,"end":338.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.03721875,"end":349.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.47846875000005,"end":349.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.49534375,"end":351.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.86659375000005,"end":350.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.95909375,"end":352.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.44409375000004,"end":357.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.84846875,"end":360.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.78471875,"end":362.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.56909375000004,"end":370.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.67846875000004,"end":365.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.97721875,"end":371.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.26409375000003,"end":371.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.97284375000004,"end":372.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.10784375000003,"end":372.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.16659375,"end":375.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.17909375000005,"end":378.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.77346875,"end":386.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.97471875,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.68721875,"end":393.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.40409375,"end":397.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.67346875000004,"end":398.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.34409375,"end":402.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.55034375,"end":405.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.79846875000004,"end":408.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.03471875,"end":408.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.19034375,"end":414.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.07159375000003,"end":417.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.34534375000004,"end":424.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.33596875,"end":426.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.24721875,"end":426.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.47909375,"end":426.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.96846875,"end":434.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.95034375,"end":439.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.21971875,"end":439.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.84409375,"end":441.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.03784375000004,"end":443.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.72534375000004,"end":445.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.91909375,"end":447.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.97784375000003,"end":450.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.42034375000003,"end":452.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.14159375,"end":456.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.14096875,"end":459.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.12784375,"end":461.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.76471875000004,"end":463.97534375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.669,"end":9.618,"text":"謝謝主席,請麻煩有請部長請王部長那個主席對不起我稍微暫停一下"},{"start":10.845,"end":35.708,"text":"喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂喂"},{"start":35.828,"end":60.869,"text":"那在您今天所提出的書面報告當中就是說您點到說這次的修法是希望以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段工程的改善其實你也知道路權團體大家都支持讓我們整個道路的設計上可以容納更多不同的需求這個大方向上大家都同意"},{"start":61.63,"end":76.278,"text":"但現在產生最大的爭執是什麼?產生最大的爭執是說你的工程改善手段先做代替先立執法吧?你覺得你的工程改善手段要多久?"},{"start":77.028,"end":79.809,"text":"我希望是那時候是全國都該做人行到該什麼都要做"},{"start":100.35,"end":111.908,"text":"4年嘛對但是不是說到4年才有完整的結果階段性一直一直改善這樣子那所以你認為什麼時候這個先替代監理執行手段的替代可以完成"},{"start":113.208,"end":133.574,"text":"要看事實上也不見得等到4年啦對就比如說你如果會比4年還短嗎因為如果地方政府很積極我們現在是補助欸就給像今年今年是完好啦全部補助欸沒有關係啊如果做得好當然部長你要卸任以前提出了一個很重要的目標我相信下一屆的交通部部長聽到您今天講的4年之內喔4年之內"},{"start":137.595,"end":151.799,"text":"這件事情要做完當然這次行政院的修法理由提說相關的職業工會反映嚴重影響職業駕駛人的工作權也造成警察機關執法量能龐大的負擔"},{"start":153.8,"end":168.113,"text":"我們就就事論事來看當道路交通設計上面您現在歸咎於這個產生了一些相通途的狀態的時候那我一向的立場是我們要就事論事可能不是一個全有全無的"},{"start":168.974,"end":194.151,"text":"也不是說你們這是提出來的那行為立權團體大家都要照單全收我們還是要就事論事一點一點的來看吧這樣的立場部長您贊不贊成我贊成您贊成嗎就是說這一次的確我們要找這個平衡點我們從這個用一千兩百元那這有十項我現在關心的倒不是錢的事情是是"},{"start":194.631,"end":218.809,"text":"因為錢的事情你反映出來的是說他在行政罰環上面的可罰性、可捨難性有多高嗎?但我現在思考的觀點是說當你用錢當標準的時候會不會有盲點?所謂有盲點是說我們現在是希望在我們道路交通設計各方面就是講不完善可能講得比較客氣啦在這個之前"},{"start":220.47,"end":245.764,"text":"兩邊的利害關係我們怎麼去balance?那行政律權團體因為你去年夏天你也上過凱道嘛你也做過承諾嘛所以對於他們來講交通部現在的態度讓他們有一點難以接受所以我才說是不是有可能不要全有全無具體的來看嘛第一個事情是說他們說是卸貨停車格不足這個是他們反映出來的心聲嘛"},{"start":247.185,"end":274.948,"text":"但你卸貨停車有不足用身心專用停車位這樣好嗎?這樣對我們的身心障礙的朋友這樣真的好嗎?這個利害關係的balance部長您覺得呢?事實上這十項裡面這一項我是覺得是可以繼續開放民眾檢舉我覺得身上專用停車位這個部分是比較嚴肅因為他們停車位已經很少了我是覺得"},{"start":276.249,"end":291.56,"text":"這十項裡面這一項我是支持支持部長我喜歡你這樣的態度就是論事嘛也不要因為行政院有題版本出來就要硬幹到底第一項你已經點頭了那我們再看第二項"},{"start":293.633,"end":309.822,"text":"那人行道的部分您覺得呢?你看這個相片是一個滿關心路人團體也是我自己滿好的朋友但我提出來質詢不是因為他是我的好朋友啦是為了所有的行人CHIP他貼的"},{"start":311.128,"end":336.029,"text":"啊你車車你你車車到這樣你是要叫人安這個太離譜了吧這個這個文偉貓這個就是你剛才談到的這個環境沒有整頓好的對對對對齁他停在紅線上是一回事喔他是整台車車的人行道上欸啊這樣還不能檢控是安安裝可以檢控所以我猜我我們有時候用抽象的文字不容易描述具體的狀況嘛"},{"start":337.19,"end":358.619,"text":"我們不要就看一張照片勝過千言萬語這個就是打110啦打110警察馬上來處理而且這個齁在地方的這個停管單位他有偷掉車也可以直接偷掉那個今天警政署有來嗎有來那個警政署有沒有統計過依照我們現在警察同仁的負擔齁那這種的狀況我卡電話過大概幾分鐘可以趕到"},{"start":364.301,"end":389.753,"text":"這個部分我沒辦法把握因為要看看就是說10當時接受接受到多少案件部長你有沒有聽到警政署講的所以只要就是說我了解部長你有沒有聽到警政署講的我想這一部分繼續溝通啦我想說這個在現在這個是因為這個停產沒有關係主席站起來我現在只關心第三個太陽"},{"start":391.432,"end":394.415,"text":"大型煞車倒車倒車倒車倒車倒車倒車倒車"},{"start":407.85,"end":425.783,"text":"部長你同不同意?呃我想這個部分這個呃的確我們這次1200就是這個從事實上有跟委員報告你如果每一項去討論吼的確好像看起來每一項都都開放但是的確在整個這個沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":426.383,"end":446.392,"text":"部長你不要把我具體問題都抽無像話的你答詢的技巧非常厲害試圖把具體問題都抽像話這個為什麼會很關心因為真的有很多人是因為這樣上命輪下人命最重要第二個這種態樣會比較容易被警察來喔"},{"start":448.018,"end":448.138,"text":"韓國昌委員"}]}},{"id":"151469","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151469","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445a2547eab51af1ded51d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94fe6342ee0b0898265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:15:48 - 12:22:53","影片長度":"00:07:05","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":425,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:22:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:15:48+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":723,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時15分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。微罪不記點要上路，當然也有人會憂心行人安全會「倒退嚕」嗎？誠如剛才部長所說，取消兩段式左轉，盤點的結果反而是更危險，所以道交條例該怎麼好好調整？當然，我們制定之後，還是要非常嚴謹。誠如剛才主席所說，例如召開公聽會讓大家好好的研討，因為這是民生問題，是每一天都會遇到的。","本席要和你討論的是，記點的方式不應該以金額大小決定，而是應該以其安全性和危險點決定。你同意這樣的論點嗎？"],["王部長國材：對。我們這次主要是以道路交通管理處罰條例第九十二條及裁罰細則第十二條的1,200元，就是警察如果遇到這種狀況可以勸導、驅離，不處罰，用這樣的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以有學者挑戰，不是金額的問題。例如在學校、大賣場周邊，應該要視它的安全性和危險點。是不是有討論的空間？"],["王部長國材：我們現在找到的法源，就是過去警察看到他違規，但是不開罰單，叫他趕快走的這一種才用1,200元。但是對於項目，我們尊重，大家可以做一些討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：應該以違規頻率、嚴重度及可控制的原因做為分析點，這部分應該納入一起討論。"],["王部長國材：可以加入討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：以吊扣駕照的數量來看，2023年5萬0,470件，2022年6萬9,620件，去年下降到1.9萬件，表示這部分有在精進，但是這樣的精進，因為有很多是固定的檢舉達人，讓民眾苦不堪言。在這樣的情況之下，我們在討論的時候，本席希望不是只依照金額來制定，而是應該以它的安全度和危險度做為定律，加入討論而有空間。謝謝部長，剛才你也同意將它加入，大家好好的討論，因為我們希望以行人安全為本，達到改善、降低交通事故的目標。","本席也要特別再次強調，學區以及商業臨停的部分該怎麼調整？因為一方面要便利，二方面又要安全，所以這部分要好好檢討。第二個，本席要和你討論的是，你們要推動停讓文化2.0計畫，對不對？交通部有提出數字，去年行人死亡380人，當然，較更前一年少了14人，這部分我們是讚許的，要越來越少。但是下半年度，包括3,486處路口行人安全設施，以及將近168公里的人行道改善，這對我們要求推動的停讓文化2.0計畫非常重要，因此大型車落實在路口停讓的制度必須、務必、一定要好好的來加強，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是，不只大型車，所有的車子，包括機車、汽車到人行道都要停讓行人，這是我們現在的政策，而且現在也有重罰，6000元、3點，還有道安講習。另外就是你談到工程，工程面我們必須討論，例如過去談到行穿線要退縮這個課題，比較容易造成他沒有看到行人的部分也持續再進行。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個非常重要，所以本席也特別把你的公里數、把你3,000多個路口處，這個我們都要積極去落實，因為你必須要把它規劃好，它才有辦法讓你加乘上去的停讓文化2.0能夠保障人民的安全。"],["王部長國材：我們現在4年400億元歡迎地方政府提案，我們補助，儘量補助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你講到這點本席覺得很奇怪，有錢而人家不提，你這個問題出在哪裡？你要不要好好去檢討？我本來不想跟你說這麼明白，你自己提出來了，對不對？你把申請的SOP流程看看哪裡可以精簡，把書面資料給本席，因為主席站起來了。"],["王部長國材：我希望地方多申請。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：兩岸觀光開放不排除提早，是不是？預計要接你的李孟諺先生說，兩岸觀光將依對等開放原則，循序推動兩岸團體旅遊，如果陸方有善意的回應，不排除提早進行適當調整，你是不是樂觀其成？"],["王部長國材：我們現在就在等一個善意的回應。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是不是樂觀其成？"],["王部長國材：對啊，我就等他們善意的回應。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當時誰決定要中止呢？現在換一個部長，他的說法是如此，所以等於你的時間來做宣布，原本3月份要恢復，你現在只允許到5月31日可以出團，是不是？"],["王部長國材：後面都是有一個等對方一個善意的回應，就能夠恢復……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們現在是不是到5月31日可以出團？"],["王部長國材：是，現在出團中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你之前宣布的嘛！換句話說，如果有善意的回應，你也樂觀其成，提早嘛！對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那我們大家繼續加油。"],["王部長國材：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","現在請羅明才委員發言，羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","現在請鄭正鈐委員發言，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","現在請邱志偉委員發言，邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在。","現在請徐欣瑩委員發言，徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","現在請陳冠廷委員發言，陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員不在。","現在請張嘉郡委員發言，張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員不在。","現在請吳思瑤委員發言，吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤委員不在。","現在請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.27534375,"end":4.283468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.469093750000001,"end":5.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.13909375,"end":10.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.15596875,"end":20.348468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.83784375,"end":26.204093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.42346875,"end":27.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.68909375,"end":30.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.11471875,"end":36.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.548468750000005,"end":40.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.68346875,"end":36.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.61534375,"end":53.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.18284375,"end":59.650343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.02159375,"end":68.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.27346875,"end":68.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.57721875,"end":72.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.91409375,"end":83.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.17971875,"end":74.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.96409375,"end":76.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.23409375,"end":77.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.74409375,"end":81.08159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.29221875,"end":86.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.32971875000001,"end":91.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.48159375,"end":86.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.19034375000001,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.20221875,"end":95.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.25659375000001,"end":99.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.24721875,"end":101.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.26409375,"end":102.76596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.34846875000001,"end":101.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.14159375000001,"end":116.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.62971875000001,"end":111.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.51971875000001,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.53596875000001,"end":116.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.55284375000001,"end":121.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.02534375,"end":117.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.49721875,"end":122.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.10034375000001,"end":154.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.82971875000001,"end":129.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.99409375000002,"end":159.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.51659375,"end":228.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.52721875,"end":172.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.08346875,"end":177.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.97409375,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.12221875000003,"end":262.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.16721875,"end":264.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.69846875,"end":267.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.87096875000003,"end":268.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.51221875000005,"end":272.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.51159375000003,"end":273.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.08096875,"end":274.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.53221875,"end":279.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.49784375,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.64909375,"end":286.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.26034375,"end":295.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.49534375,"end":299.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.39346875,"end":318.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.42221875,"end":304.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.84346875,"end":309.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.72846875000005,"end":316.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.56784375,"end":326.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.40659375,"end":327.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.94596875,"end":328.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.14846875,"end":334.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.25721875000005,"end":335.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.16846875000005,"end":348.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.61034375,"end":342.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.77909375,"end":342.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.37784375,"end":348.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.63471875000005,"end":351.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.75659375000004,"end":353.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.37221875,"end":365.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.84721875,"end":373.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.59284375000004,"end":376.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.98909375000005,"end":377.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.20409375,"end":379.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.48659375,"end":381.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.34659375,"end":399.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.59971875,"end":384.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.81659375000004,"end":405.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.44096875,"end":401.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.33909375,"end":417.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.89534375000005,"end":409.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.14721875000004,"end":417.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.90659375,"end":421.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.58534375000005,"end":425.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.24721875,"end":425.97284375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.527,"end":5.268,"text":"謝謝主席。本席想邀請部長。請部長。委居不計點要上路。那麼當然也有人憂心行人安全會倒退路嗎?但是我們知道就正如剛剛部長所說的,取消二段式的左轉。"},{"start":27.116,"end":52.929,"text":"結果我們在盤查結果是反而更危險所以道交的條例裡頭呢要怎麼樣去好好調整就是當我們制定了之後還是要非常嚴謹那所以就誠如剛剛主席才所說的那不管是公聽會啦大家好好地去研討因為是民生每一天都會用到的所以本期要跟你討論的就是說"},{"start":55.41,"end":80.019,"text":"認為記憶點的方式呢不應該是以金額的大小去做決定而是應該是以他的安全性跟他的危險點來做決定你覺得這樣子的論點你可以同意嗎對我想我們這次是主要從處罰條例九十二條跟裁判細則的第十二條裡面的一千兩百元就是警察如果在這種狀況可以欠倒驅離不處罰"},{"start":82.56,"end":98.859,"text":"用這樣來用所以就是有學者來挑戰了有學者來挑戰就是說不是因為金額的問題比如說像我們在學校大賣場的周邊這樣子那應該是要以他的安全性跟危險點"},{"start":101.3,"end":115.615,"text":"是不是有討論的空間?我覺得這樣,我們現在找到的法源就是過去警察看他違規但是不開罰單叫他趕快走這一種來用一千兩百元但是對於項目我想我尊重大家可以做一些討論"},{"start":116.596,"end":127.882,"text":"就是所以呢應該是違規的頻率跟它的嚴重度跟可控制的原因來作為分析那這個應該要納入一起去討論所以我們看到以吊扣的駕照數量來看2023年5萬470件2022年是6萬9620件"},{"start":143.311,"end":158.967,"text":"去年下降到1.9萬件那表示是有在增進但是這個增進也讓民眾有很多像這個有很多固定的檢舉達人也讓民眾苦不堪言"},{"start":160.189,"end":187.771,"text":"所以在這種情況之下我們在討論的時候本市就希望不是只依照金額來制定而是應該以他的安全度跟危險度來作為定律來加入討論的空間那也謝謝部長剛剛你也同意將他加入大家好好來討論因為我們希望行人安全為本來改善交通的這個事故的目標這個是我們的目標"},{"start":188.932,"end":217.104,"text":"好那接下來本席要也特別再次強調在學區以及這個商業的林庭的這個部分要怎麼樣去調整因為一方面要便利二方面又要安全這個要好好地來做檢討那第二個本席要跟你討論的是這個你們要推動的停讓文化2.0對不對停讓文化2.0我們看到交通部的數字"},{"start":218.124,"end":245.245,"text":"行人死亡去年380人。那麼當然較前年、前一年的少了14人。這個我們是暫許要越來越少。但是我們看到下半年度呢,我們看到包括了3486處的入口。我們樓下的這個行人安全設施以及將近168公里的人行道的這個改善。"},{"start":246.306,"end":261.129,"text":"那這個跟我們要要求推的停讓文化2.0呢 這個非常重要 所以因此大型車落實在路口停讓的制度必須務必一定要好好的來加強 對不對"},{"start":262.931,"end":275.519,"text":"這個我們不只大型車所有的車子包括機車、汽車到這個人行道都要停讓行人這是我們現在的政策而且現在也有重罰6000元這個3點還有這個包括這個大門講習"},{"start":279.602,"end":294.83,"text":"所以我們這個部分就是另外就是你談到工程工程面我們必須討論比如說過去還談到行川縣要退收這個課題這個比較容易造成這個他沒有看到新人這個部分也持續在進行"},{"start":295.8,"end":321.923,"text":"這個非常重要所以本席也特別把你的這個公里數把你3000多個這個入口處這個我們都要積極去落實因為你必須要把它規劃好它才有辦法讓你加成上去的這個停讓文化2.0才能夠保障人民的安全請說我們現在四年四百億歡迎地方政府提案我們補助"},{"start":323.804,"end":346.97,"text":"你講到這一點我覺得很奇怪有錢人家不提你這個問題出在哪裡你要好好去檢討好不好我本來沒要跟你講這麼多你自己拿出來對不對你把那個你把那個申請的SOP流程是不是可以怎麼樣哪裡去精簡好不好你把他順便資料給本席因為主席站起來讓我再一分鐘主席好"},{"start":348.71,"end":364.069,"text":"那這個兩岸觀光開放不排除提早是不是啊預計要接你的李孟雁先生說兩岸觀光將依對等開放原則循序推動兩岸團體旅遊"},{"start":366.432,"end":379.347,"text":"如果路方有善意的回應不排除提早進行適當調整你是不是樂觀其成我們現在就是在等一個善意的回應你是不是樂觀其成對我就等了善意的回應當時誰決定要終止呢"},{"start":383.994,"end":399.51,"text":"現在換一個部長喔他的說法是如此喔所以等於你喔是你的時間來做宣布喔原本3月份呢要恢復嘛那你現在又只允許到5月31號可以組團是不是啊"},{"start":400.651,"end":400.671,"text":"韓國瑜"}]}},{"id":"151468","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151468","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445e32f2997e06d3bbc0525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c944c387a4e6f397e9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:33:47 - 12:40:54","影片長度":"00:07:07","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":427,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:40:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:33:47+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1180,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時33分）主席、在場委員先進、政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士、先生。有請主計總處朱主計長、金管會黃主委、證期局張局長及財政部促參司張副司長。"],["主席：好，有請。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主計長好、主委好、局長好、副司長好。首先請教張局長，今天雖然是討論投信顧法和不動產證券化條例，但是我們關心的當然也包括主計總處的預算解凍。我們關心的是現在民間的投資情況怎麼樣，譬如說有2款新的ETF聯手募資超過2,000億，局長覺得這是好事嗎？"],["張局長振山：不見得是好事，因為它成長太快。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是如果說全民投資，賺的錢是不是參與投資的人分享？"],["張局長振山：當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就這個角度來講，其實證券化在證券市場上是鼓勵國人在證券市場裡面透過共同投資，共同分享利益，這是一個證券市場存在的目的，是不是？"],["張局長振山：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請問主計長，你認為目前有這麼多錢參與，是不是表示臺灣的超額儲蓄或民間資金相當充沛？"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那我們是不是要幫它們找到一個出口？"],["朱主計長澤民：最好有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那接下來我要請教黃主委，其實我們今天在討論的投信顧法或是不動產證券化條例，就是我們有一個想法，希望公共設施不動產證券化的收益由全民共享。簡單講，過去一些公共設施，譬如台智光的光纜發包給財團，如果它賺很多錢，人家說是財團賺大錢；如果不賺錢，我們就說政府的BOT操作失利。如果將其變成不動產證券化之後，由民間的大眾資金、市場來取得，收益是不是全民共享？請問主委支持這樣的方向嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我一直都是支持的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，所以我們來看一下它背後運作的原理。以前我們只有想到像商辦證券化之後，它就可以有收益，現在我們把公共設施也納入不動產證券化之後，它的收益就是來自大眾的使用跟消費，是不是這樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，再往下看，其實當我們將公共設施作為不動產證券化之後，有一個四大互助的情況，年輕人有工作收入，有主動收入就有消費能力，但是他沒有什麼資產，但是透過他使用的公共設施，包括捷運、高鐵和其它公共設施，這些公共設施變成不動產證券化之後的消費可以創造收益，而這個收益會分配給誰呢？當老年人沒有主動收入，而是只有被動收入的時候，他可以把他存的資產投入不動產證券化，透過年輕世代消費來賺取年老的生活所需，你覺得這樣的循環是不是世代互助的範例？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員分析得非常清楚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝，那我們來看一下，現在有一個案子叫台智光，很多人都搞不清楚台智光在臺北市發生了什麼事情，它其實某個專案有人說是BOT，有人說是PPP，我們如果以其它同樣的地方，像是六都來看，以臺南市的規模和它提供的傳輸速度，自建的費率大概700元到800元，我們換算成台智光案，如果臺北市的台智光案用臺南的費率800元來算的話，每年收費的收入可以有1.52億元，25年總共有38億元，投入的建置成本大概20億元。如果我們將台智光案以不動產證券化的方式，讓臺北市民來投資，它1年的收益7,200萬，年投報率大概3.6%，換言之25年臺北市政府的總收益是18億，給每一位參與投資的市民，如果投資50萬，他1年可以分潤1萬8,000元。換言之，如果把公共設施用不動產證券化，讓所有的國人、民眾來投資，您覺得這樣的投資報酬率可以嗎？如果是您，會不會考慮要投資？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想大家都會跟定存去比，如果比定存高，當然會有一定的吸引力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，就是比定存高的，可能投資大眾就會有興趣。不動產證券化可以避免利益輸送給特定人士，透過公共建設不動產證券化創造的收益不進財團口袋，而是能夠讓全民共享，這就是我們推動不動產證券化及公共設施證券化的情況。如果未來不動產證券化，是不是能夠解決類似被社會懷疑的台智光這種圖利財團的弊案？有沒有可能解決？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，台智光案我沒有了解的很深刻。"],["鍾委員佳濱：OK，我剛剛的說法就是我認為未來政府需要的公共設施，用PPP的方式，如果能夠再加上公共設施不動產證券化的話，就可以將民眾的消費所產生的利益回饋到投資的民眾身上。","我們來看一下投信顧法當中第四十九條之三，這是院版的部分，不得投資於住宅法第三條第一款所定之住宅，而且相關權利要在取得建照之後才能夠動用；住宅法第三條也提到，必須具備門牌之合法建物。我的問題在這裡，請問取得建照後，能動用該資金的款項，該資金的款項能否用為償還土地融資？目前的法條有沒有規定？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我現在沒辦法，也許委員可以指導我。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主席，我再一點時間。如果用這個案子來講，有的開發案1、2樓為店面，可供公共使用，3到15樓是住宅，1、2樓可以出租、可以收益，用此案來講，不動產投資信託基金，可不可以投資或用運在1、2樓的店面？有沒有規範？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我認為應該是可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：應該可以。"],["黃主任委員天牧：主要是產權能夠區隔的話。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，那我把問題再複雜一點，如果有一個建案是A、B兩棟，B棟是全住宅，A棟1到20樓是飯店，20到25樓是住宅，這種情況之下，兩棟為1個建照，此案如果是用不動產投資信託基金來投資或運用，可不可以？規範是單獨投資於A棟或B棟或飯店，目前的法律有沒有規範？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們的權責就是住宅不行……"],["鍾委員佳濱：住宅不行，其它的可以考慮？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，其它的飯店可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝，我們愈來愈清楚了。最後，工程款項能不能直接動用於基金款項？還是要先動撥建物的融資，再用基金款項來償還？目前的法條有沒有規定？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這部分請委員指導，我不清楚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前是沒有，所以我們今天在審這個條文，我希望主席通融，請金管會在這個法條研議，將不動產信託基金投資或運用於住商混合大樓建案的規範，3個月內提出書面報告，可以嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，我們努力，我們去處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝主委、謝謝主計長、謝謝局長、謝謝副司長。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","接下來請謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員不在。","下一位張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員不在。","下一位林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","下一位黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員不在。好，沒有看到你，不好意思。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.527843750000001,"end":22.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.70659375,"end":24.347843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.68534375,"end":25.191593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.035343750000003,"end":31.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.402218750000003,"end":27.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.637843750000002,"end":44.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.32784375,"end":50.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.50409375,"end":51.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.56721875,"end":52.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.38971875,"end":53.423468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.57534375,"end":54.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.94221875,"end":55.431593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.60034375,"end":56.882843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.61284375,"end":56.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.882843750000006,"end":62.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.97471875,"end":63.447218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.447218750000005,"end":83.62971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.43971875000001,"end":85.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.09784375000001,"end":85.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.16534375,"end":87.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.51096875,"end":99.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.13784375,"end":101.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.05721875,"end":104.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.40284375,"end":105.73596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.02284375,"end":108.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.82409375,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.55346875000001,"end":115.05096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.15221875,"end":116.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.05909375,"end":119.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.77596875,"end":120.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.73346875000001,"end":123.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.23096875,"end":125.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.19284375000001,"end":125.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.88471875,"end":132.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.00596875000002,"end":134.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.57534375,"end":135.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.09409375,"end":136.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.90409375000002,"end":139.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.95846875,"end":142.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.50221875,"end":143.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.60346875000002,"end":143.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.94096875,"end":151.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.65284375000002,"end":180.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.45846875,"end":182.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.43284375000002,"end":185.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.77409375000002,"end":188.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.96346875,"end":190.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.92096875000001,"end":192.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.57471875000002,"end":196.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.10159375,"end":211.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.74471875,"end":213.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.88784375,"end":215.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.31784375,"end":218.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.42721875,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.37096875,"end":231.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.58971875,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.97659375,"end":240.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.04409375,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.03846875000002,"end":251.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.67096875000001,"end":254.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.52284375000002,"end":254.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.60721875000002,"end":256.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.53096875,"end":257.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.35784375000003,"end":271.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.58346875,"end":276.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.78096875,"end":283.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.88534375,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.96534375000005,"end":286.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.85971875,"end":286.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.51784375,"end":304.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.75971875000005,"end":309.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.70409375,"end":315.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.26846875,"end":320.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.43659375000004,"end":320.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.36471875,"end":322.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.42346875000004,"end":327.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.64221875000004,"end":329.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.51096875,"end":334.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.12221875,"end":335.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.80971875,"end":338.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.89784375000005,"end":340.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.09159375,"end":347.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.84159375,"end":352.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.03909375,"end":353.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.59596875,"end":355.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.55784375,"end":355.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.43534375,"end":355.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.73909375,"end":355.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.77284375000005,"end":355.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.80659375000005,"end":356.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.82346875,"end":358.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.86096875000004,"end":361.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.00409375000004,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.03784375000004,"end":365.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.18471875,"end":370.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.28096875,"end":375.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.05659375000005,"end":380.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.11909375000005,"end":384.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.32971875000004,"end":385.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.37596875,"end":384.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.10159375,"end":385.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.82721875000004,"end":385.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.96221875000003,"end":386.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.01284375,"end":386.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.04659375,"end":388.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.08034375,"end":387.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.86471875,"end":392.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.89784375000005,"end":397.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.60596875000005,"end":401.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.40284375000005,"end":405.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.12784375,"end":416.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.50596875,"end":418.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.78409375,"end":421.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.75409375000004,"end":427.39034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.747,"end":21.617,"text":"主席、財黨委員先進、政府機關首長官員、會長公共夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請主計總處朱主計長還有我們金管會的黃竹偉以及政企局的張局長和財政部處參司的張副司長有請委員長"},{"start":26.209,"end":49.915,"text":"主席長好、主委好、局長好、副市長好來我首先請教一下張局長那麼我們看到今天雖然是投信固法和不動產證券化條例但是我們關心的當然也包括主席總書的預算解凍我們關心的是說現在民間的投資情況怎麼樣譬如說有兩款新款的ETF聯手募資超過2000億局長你覺得這個好事嗎"},{"start":53.623,"end":57.048,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。breviation"},{"start":63.155,"end":83.479,"text":"當然當然所以就這個角度來講其實證券化在證券市場上是一個鼓勵我們國人在證券市場裡面透過共同投資共同分享利益這是一個我們證券市場存在的目的嘛是不是是的好那請問主計長你認為目前有這麼多錢參與是不是表示台灣我們的超額持續儲蓄或民間的資金向上充沛"},{"start":84.785,"end":103.822,"text":"是的那我們是不是要幫他找個一個出口最好有好那接下來我要請到黃主委其實今天我們要討論的投信固法或不動產證券化條例就是我們有一個想法就希望把公共設施不動產證券化的收益呢全民共享簡單講過去我們的公共設施比如說台智光的光纜我們發報給財團"},{"start":106.104,"end":106.244,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":124.264,"end":125.425,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":143.65,"end":162.547,"text":"是的好那往下看那我們來看一下其實當我們將公共設施作為不動產證券化之後有一個四大互助的情況年輕人有工作收入有主動收入他有消費能力但他沒有什麼資產但是透過他使用的公共設施包括捷運包括高鐵包括這些假的這些公共設施是變成不動產"},{"start":163.268,"end":163.508,"text":"案2案3案4案5案6"},{"start":180.552,"end":195.795,"text":"是有人分析非常清楚好謝謝那我們來看一下先到一個案子叫臺智光很多人都搞不清楚臺智光在臺北市發生了什麼事情他其實某個人甚至有人說是BOT其實有人說是PPP其實呢我們如果以同樣的其他地方六都來看"},{"start":196.315,"end":210.323,"text":"以台南市的規模和提供的傳輸速度以它自建它的費率大概700到800我們來換算台治光案如果台北市的台治光案用台南的費率800來算的話它大概每年可以收費收入大概1.52億"},{"start":211.964,"end":212.925,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":231.664,"end":232.745,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":251.698,"end":276.229,"text":"我想大家都會跟定存去比啦那如果比定存高當然都會有一些吸引力啦很好就是比定存高的可能投資大眾就會有興趣往下看所以不動產證券化可以避免利益輸送給特定人士透過不動產公共證券不動產證券化創造所以它不進財團口袋它能夠讓全民構想所以呢這個就是我們推動不動產證券化還有包括公共證券化的一個情況好往下看"},{"start":276.849,"end":304.122,"text":"那如果未來不動產證券化是不是能夠解決類似像被社會懷疑的臺智光這種圖利財產的那種弊案有沒有可能解決?報告員因為臺智光案我沒有了解很深刻了。好那我剛剛的說法就是說我認為未來政府他所需要的公共設施用PPV的方式如果能夠再加上公共設施的不動產證券化的話那就可以將我們民眾的消費所產生的利益回饋到投資的民眾的身上繼續看"},{"start":304.827,"end":329.069,"text":"那我們來看一下我們的投信固法當中19條之3這是院版的部分不得投資於住宅法第3條第一款所定之住宅而且要在相關權利要在取得建造之後才能夠動用那住宅法第3條也提說必須具備門牌的合法監護好我的問題在這裡了請問取得建造後能動用該資金的款項該資金的款項能否用為償還土地融資目前的法條有沒有規定"},{"start":330.82,"end":352.375,"text":"這個我現在沒辦法,也許委員可以指導我,對好,那另外下一題齁那如果說我們以這個此案,主席再一點時間齁如果這個此案,我們以這個案子來講齁有的一個開發案呢,它一二樓的店面可以公共使用三到四樓是住宅,一二樓可以租住,可以收益用此案來講,不動產投資信託基金可不可以投資或運用在一二樓的店面,有沒有規範"},{"start":353.095,"end":354.396,"text":"規範是單獨投資於A棟或B棟或飯店,目前的法律有沒有規範?"},{"start":381.141,"end":383.942,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa"},{"start":401.668,"end":423.068,"text":"今天我們要審這個條文我希望現在主席的通融請今晚會在這個法條研議將不動產投資信託資不動產信託基金投資或運用於住商混合大樓這樣的規範3個月內提出書面報告可以嗎好我們努力我們去處理好謝謝主委謝謝主計長謝謝局長謝謝我們副市長謝謝我們主委"}]}},{"id":"151467","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151467","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445e131428ab275b0a10525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c94341e813343861a055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:26:26 - 12:33:34","影片長度":"00:07:08","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":428,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:33:34+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:26:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1142,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時26分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請金管會黃主委。"],["主席：請金管會黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委好。8年來我們的股市翻倍成長，2020年實施零股交易，這能夠讓國民妥善的理財，小資族也可以共同參與共同投資，據證交所所提供給本席的數字顯示，去年零股交易的人數有320萬人，光今年1到3月份，就是上個月，零股交易已經達到232萬人，顯見預估今年的人數應該會比去年增加，由這個人數來看，也顯現零股交易已經成為小資族最便利的理財投資管道。","翻開金管會3月18號在財政委員會提出的專報，針對精進盤中零股交易制度，你也承諾在今年年底會把盤中零股交易撮合的時間由1分鐘縮短為5秒鐘，是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：優化整個零股交易市場以因應需要者。請教主委，我們致力推動精進盤中零股交易的制度，您在上一次說預計在12月2號把零股撮合的時間縮短，減少時間的落差，讓零股的價格、撮合的時間也可以比照整股，換句話說就是金管會來作為小資族的靠山，讓他的能夠公平參與整個經濟的成長果實。本席也特別看到新聞稿當中提到，你們滿意零股交易，因為它有助於提供年輕人及小資族多元參與資本市場的一個管道，重要在這裡；讓他們不會比別人買得貴，時間又能夠更加迅速。在這樣的情況之下，你覺得對於年輕人的幫助，在12月2號是不是可以如期上路？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，這個去年就規劃了，主要是因為券商跟交易所這邊系統要調整，所以才會需要到、12月初。這個當然……我自己知道，因為在學校有開過座談會，有些做零股的年輕人覺得，為什麼我做零股的交易條件跟整張不一樣？他覺得有點被差別待遇。當然因為零股跟……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對呀，他要一分鐘，他要五秒鐘，他買得比別人貴。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們去年底就已經把訊息揭露的時間縮短了，現在就進一步把交易的交割時間儘量縮短，目的就是降低之間的差……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：公平性。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：然後也協助年輕人，小資族大概都是年輕人。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們總結這個議題，12月2日還是會如期上路？"],["黃主任委員天牧：會，我想交易所的先進都在這邊，如果能夠提前就會儘量提前。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你要不要幫他們喊話一下？我就等著你這句話。"],["黃主任委員天牧：他們都有在做，那我想就我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：應該會提前吧？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們內部再討論一下有沒有可能提前，好不好？但是因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：同意提前的請舉手。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這個不是喊話，還是要改系統，我們儘量努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然是要改系統，因為有時間嘛，對不對？我們主要是公平性的共同參與，也協助年輕人，我希望金管會作為這些零股的靠山，當然交易所也是在幫助大家，這個可以說是三全其美。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，了解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要跟你討論是人頭戶外籍嫌犯，這個人數逐漸成長，我們看到2019年查獲98人，去年竟然703人；移工涉犯詐欺案也一直在上升，前年我們就查獲了569件，在這樣的情況下，去年又暴增了1倍，有1千多件，講到這個數字我們是很難過的。在這樣的情況之下，我們又看到黑數太多了，依照勞動部的資料，去年移工突破了75萬3,000人，逾期的是8萬6,000人失聯，這些找不到的有8萬6,000人，所以變成人頭供應大戶。依據警方研判，有人力仲介公司瞄準移工收簿，將其賣給詐騙集團來賺錢，請教主委，金管會要如何應對移工人頭戶攀升的問題？我很緊張耶。"],["黃主任委員天牧：這一方面洗防法修法有告誡戶，就是如果移工或是國內民眾把自己的帳本賣給別人，現在有一些機制；另外前一段時間提到，移工如果離開臺灣之後，是不是應該強迫他關臺灣的帳戶，這部分前一段時間有跟內政部及勞動部溝通，可能現在移民署會把一些資料給銀行，銀行就風險去篩選。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，所以一個結論，我們看到這個數字說失聯8萬6,000人，這是顯性，隱性還不知道，在這樣的情況下，隱性加上去就更恐怖，所以我們還是要自己有方案應對，請你去研擬怎麼樣不要讓這些黑戶直接成為人頭帳戶，這會讓民眾苦不堪言。你把研擬的方案，研討出一個初步方案……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們把現在您關切的移工部分，如何防止他成為人頭帳戶能做的做法及可能採取的措施，擬一個報告給您，可以嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在在做的本席了解。"],["黃主任委員天牧：OK。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要的是……"],["黃主任委員天牧：未來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：數字一直攀升，對不對？防範於未然，你可以怎麼精進的方案再給本席，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，當然這是跨部會的，我們把金管會要做的跟您報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.283468750000001,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.071593750000002,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.847843750000003,"end":12.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.239718750000002,"end":14.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.235343750000002,"end":15.758468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.43346875,"end":16.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.31096875,"end":18.188468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.79596875,"end":22.980968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.723468750000002,"end":31.367843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.620968750000003,"end":35.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.43034375,"end":46.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.196593750000005,"end":54.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.14471875,"end":56.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.54534375,"end":57.220343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.726593750000006,"end":61.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.860968750000005,"end":71.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.11659375,"end":79.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.68096875,"end":90.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.34159375,"end":110.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.81534375000001,"end":120.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.23971875000001,"end":126.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.15034375,"end":137.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.69721875000002,"end":139.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.41846875000002,"end":143.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.45159375,"end":147.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.19346875000002,"end":165.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.52409375000002,"end":171.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.06721875000002,"end":179.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.74971875,"end":183.61409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.52534375000002,"end":189.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.75659375,"end":198.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.64971875,"end":202.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.61159375000003,"end":200.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.87721875000003,"end":205.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.34096875,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.18034375000002,"end":220.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.21596875,"end":231.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.00909375,"end":222.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.32096875000002,"end":224.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.07596875000002,"end":225.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.48409375000003,"end":237.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.19221875000002,"end":240.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.07346875000002,"end":243.87471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.48659375000003,"end":244.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.65096875,"end":244.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.27534375000002,"end":255.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.58284375000002,"end":249.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.40096875,"end":251.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.40471875000003,"end":318.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.07534375,"end":256.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.63221875,"end":257.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.43971875,"end":274.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.53221875,"end":275.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.81909375000004,"end":275.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.79971875,"end":331.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.57409375000003,"end":341.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.05346875000004,"end":343.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.23471875,"end":355.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.70534375,"end":373.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.55909375000005,"end":373.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.93034375,"end":380.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.60846875000004,"end":383.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.17346875000004,"end":406.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.24409375000005,"end":391.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.66034375000004,"end":401.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.49534375,"end":403.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.01409375000003,"end":415.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.84784375000004,"end":424.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.77159375,"end":418.14284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.98659375000005,"end":419.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.87659375000004,"end":421.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.36971875,"end":429.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.47909375,"end":426.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.43659375000004,"end":429.48284375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.338,"end":5.979,"text":"金管會黃主委八年來我們的股市翻倍成長"},{"start":25.468,"end":44.005,"text":"2020年實施的零股交易就能夠讓國民妥善的理財小資族也可以共同參與去共同投資據證交所所提供給本席的數字顯示在去年零股交易的人數有320萬人"},{"start":47.248,"end":49.85,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案1案"},{"start":75.012,"end":90.043,"text":"金管會3月18日財政委員會提出的專報針對於精進盤中零股交易制度你也承諾在今年年底會把盤中零股交易錯的時間由一分鐘"},{"start":91.52,"end":93.682,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":122.261,"end":137.654,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":137.814,"end":164.426,"text":"所以本席也特別看在新聞稿當中你們滿意零股交易有助於提供重點在這裡年輕人及小資族的多元參與資本市場的一個管道又讓他們不會比別人買的貴時間又能夠更加的迅速在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":165.606,"end":183.397,"text":"你覺得對於我們年輕人的幫助12月2號是不是可以如期的來上是這個去年就規劃了那主要是因為券商跟交易所這邊系統要調整所以才會需要到年底12月12月初是"},{"start":184.591,"end":204.479,"text":"那這個當然因為我自己知道我有接到學校與開過座談會那有些做零股的年輕人覺得說為什麼我做零股的交易條件跟整張不一樣他覺得有點有點被差別待遇了對啊所以我們當然因為零股他要1分鐘他5秒鐘他他要比別人買的貴"},{"start":205.239,"end":226.517,"text":"我們去年年底就已經把那個那個那個訊息的揭露時間也也縮短了那現在就進一步把把交交交易的這個交割交易的這個時間也也交割的時間也盡量縮短目的就是降低之間公平性嗎對對沒錯然後也協助年輕人嗎對小資族大概都年輕人齁所以換句話說我們還是一個結論這個議題12月2號還是會如期的來上路"},{"start":232.967,"end":244.399,"text":"會當然我想這邊交易所的先進都在這邊如果我們能夠提前就盡量提前那你要不要幫他們喊話一下我就等著你這一句話他們都有在做啦那我想就應該會提前吧"},{"start":245.325,"end":272.916,"text":"我請我們內部再討論一下有沒有可能提前好不好同意提前的請舉手報告委員這個不是喊話啦這個還是要改系統啦我們盡量努力當然是改系統因為有時間嘛對不對好所以主委在這邊我們主要是一個公平性的一個共同參與也協助年輕人我也希望金管會來作為這些領股的靠山嘛那當然我們這個交易所在這邊其實也是幫助大家"},{"start":273.796,"end":288.236,"text":"這個可以說是三全其美接下來本期要跟你討論的就是人頭戶外籍嫌疑犯這個人數逐漸的在成長我們看到2019年查獲的98人去年竟然703人"},{"start":290.238,"end":296.499,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":319.063,"end":340.39,"text":"這一些人找不到8萬6千人所以在這個人頭供應大戶請教主委依據警方的研判有人力中介公司呢瞄準了移工來收部賣給這個詐騙集團來賺錢那麼我們金管會你要如何的將移工的人頭戶攀升的這個問題要怎麼應對我很緊張欸"},{"start":343.311,"end":343.691,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":374.111,"end":400.197,"text":"所以主委一個結論我們看到這個數字其實他說失聯了8萬6千人這是險性隱性還不知道所以在這樣子的情況之下如果隱性加上去那更恐怖所以我們還是要自己有方案應對我心裡去研擬怎麼樣不要讓這些的黑戶就直接成為人頭賬戶那這個是讓我們民眾會苦不堪言"},{"start":400.737,"end":427.964,"text":"好不好你把你的方案研討有一個有一個初步方案我把我們現在對於您關切的這個移工的部分如何防止他成為人頭帳戶我們做的做法跟可能採取的措施我們您一個報告給您可以嗎你現在在做的本席了解本席要的是你把數字一起攀升啊對不對防範於未來你可以怎麼精進的方案再給本席好不好當然這是跨部會的我想我們把總管會要做的跟您報告好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151466","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151466","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4455b37e0e4d6a693cdf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94c22e425c45b5ead05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"12:20:52 - 12:31:31","影片長度":"00:10:39","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":639,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:31:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:20:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":481,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（12時20分）好，麻煩秘書長。"],["主席：有請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：吳委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：秘書長好。我想請教一下秘書長，我先提一下，我想，國會調查權的理念，其實我們在法律上面也可以看到有相當類似的理念，譬如說，政府資訊公開法或檔案法，這些東西其實主要實現的就是人民知的權利，所以我覺得，因為國會議員都是人民選出來的，一樣是在實踐人民對於知的權利，所以我想請教一下秘書長，對於大法官揭示以調查權獲取資訊，能夠讓國會善盡民意機關的職責，秘書長是否同意憲法賦予立法院的這個職責？"],["周秘書長萬來：對，沒有問題，上次已經報告過，因為第585號解釋本來就可以，現行法是文件調閱……"],["吳委員宗憲：我會請教秘書長主要是因為有一些特定媒體刻意去錯誤解讀秘書長的說法，我想秘書長其實說得非常清楚，我們對於法律的見解，我的想法跟秘書長也是類似，所以記者的報導可能有所誤解。","我想請教一下，依據我們剛剛所說的，國會制定調查權是違憲嗎？從第585號解釋這樣一路推下來。"],["周秘書長萬來：本來立法院就有調查權，我跟委員報告過，第585號解釋本來就賦予立法院這個輔助性的權力，已經很明確地在解釋文裡寫得很清楚。"],["吳委員宗憲：是，謝謝秘書長。","我想請教一下，你知不知道為什麼憲法賦予國會調查權這個權力，我們一直急著把它法制化？秘書長知道原因嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：其實我上次也說過，因為現行的職權行使法本來就不足，88年在處理的時候，只有第325號解釋，只有文件調閱權，第585號解釋是在93年才有的，所以必須要去補強，國會的職權行使法在補強的時候，在調查權這一章裡面，本來就需要稍微再修正，我上次也說過。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝秘書長。","我想，我們把一個憲法上面的權力法制化，中間有一個很重要的原因，就是因為我們要把行使的要件明文，因為我們是成文法國家，我們把它明文下來，讓政府和立法委員質詢的時候有所依循。","另外還有一個就是，如果沒有法制化的話，很容易在運作的時候造成侵害人民權利，甚至有洩露國家機密的風險，所以這就是我們為什麼急著把它法制化的一個非常重要的原因。","我來談一下，最近有很多委員一直講，調查權出來之後，或是國會對於這些受調查者的一些動作，例如：請他來說明，或者是一些處罰，這可能是擾民。但是我在這邊跟各位報告，其實三權分立國家的國會也常常有很多事情要去詢問一般民間機關，但是有個前提，絕對不是亂七八糟，想叫人來就叫人來，一定是調查的事項涉及公共利益，而且跟國會的職權有關聯性的時候，才會做這件事情。所以很多時候是被帶風向，很多時候是危言聳聽，跟人民說：「哇！你家開麵店，我就傳你來這邊處罰。」沒有這種事情。那你說，假設今天華航飛機沒有保養好，發生事故，我們請它來說明，這種跟公共利益有重大關聯性，這個才有可能。譬如說，美國國會常常找波音公司去問，為什麼沒有人說他們那個叫擾民？這個部分，我剛剛解釋說明一下這是怎麼回事。","另外，我們在行使這個調查權的時候，譬如說，我的版本及黨團的版本，其實都寫得很清楚，就是有關調查權的行使，我們是會準用到行政程序法及刑事訴訟法，為什麼我當時在寫法案的時候會特別要求這個？因為我本身很重視程序正義，我要求國會在做調查的時候，在做懲罰的時候，不能恣意妄為，不能擴權，所以一切要依照及準用相關的程序法，這樣子才能保障人民的權利，也讓人民有救濟的管道，這就是為什麼我的版本一直堅持有些東西要準用相關的程序法，也就是說，立法委員在執行讓人民有知的權利的同時，我們也保障人民的權利，保障受調查者的權利，保障受調查官員的權利，所以這在我的版本裡面都非常清楚。甚至我的版本也跟同黨立委有一點不一樣，譬如說，我的版本沒有刑罰，這也是我的理念，不代表有刑罰是錯的，也不代表沒有刑罰是對的，只是說我個人對於一些東西的理念是如此，我就把它寫成我的版本出來。","我想請教一下秘書長，我們剛剛談到的一個問題就是機密外洩的問題，我們剛剛有講到，立法院行使職權的時候也是要保障讓機密不能外洩，你知不知道立法院職權行使法和國家機密保障法都有規範到這個部分？"],["周秘書長萬來：對。"],["吳委員宗憲：譬如說，釋字第729號有提到，當立法院進行文件調閱的時候，對於包含工商秘密的部分，立法委員有盡到保密的義務，這個在釋字第729號寫得非常清楚。也就是說，第729號在符合法定程序、盡到這些保密義務的前提之下，去調閱私人的工商秘密是合憲的。大家可以去閱讀第729號解釋。針對第729號和第585號，我們在這邊多次攻防，但我要跟各位報告，法律的閱讀，判決、判例的閱讀，我從學生時代到現在都知道一個點，就是不能只截一段來看，必須整篇看完；不能只截頭來看，尾不看。所以上次行政院副秘書長來這裡，我為什麼發脾氣？因為他在胡說八道！他亂解釋第585號，所以那次我很不高興。我認為行政院的高官來這裡，不能講那種話，要是不懂的人來講就算了，高官來這裡亂講話、帶風向，這個我不太能接受，這也是國之不幸。走到那個位子的人，卻胡說八道，這真的不應該，尤其行政本來就要維持中立，他不能玩政治，應該要持平地說話，如果你今天是依照第585號去講，我沒有意見，但你不能亂解釋第585號。","最後我講一個東西，也幫大家釋疑，因為今天有直播，我釋疑幾個東西。第一個，柯總召前幾天有講一句話，叫做「總統會被抓去關」，我想，我們念過憲法的人一定知道，我不是毀憲亂政，憲法第五十二條非常清楚，總統有刑事豁免權，所以絕對不會發生總統在這邊被問一問抓去關的事情，所以不要亂帶風向，請看憲法第五十二條。","第二個，有關我們的藐視國會罪，其實這在適用上面跟總統的關聯性也沒有那麼大，譬如說，在我的版本，總統來國情報告是基於憲政的秩序，跟質詢行政院的規範不同，跟聽證調查權的規範也不同，所以不會發生總統來問一問被抓去關的事情，這風馬牛不相及啊，不能混在一起講！我上次有講，我在這邊政治資歷是最淺的，每一位立委先進我都很敬佩，每一個立委都是他的家族、他的父母眼中的驕傲，但是我認為來這裡不能亂帶風向。今天這個法案、這個法律規範即使跟國民黨的邏輯不同，我也不敢隨便亂講，這是我的堅持，所以我對法律的解釋，對於釋字的解釋，我不會挑有利的來講，我一定是持平看完之後，該怎麼說就怎麼說。就像我說總統要不要即問即答，我的想法跟黨團不一樣，那我勇於講出我的想法，我還是要講出我對於憲法的感受是怎麼樣，跟大家不一定一樣，但是我必須要勇敢地說出來。同樣的，我對柯總召說總統會被抓去關，我也覺得這是亂帶風向，因為憲法明定總統有刑事豁免權。","再來，我們對於行政權的監督和聽證調查權，跟總統也無關，所以不存在總統被抓去關這件事情，我在這邊要特別說明，我一切依法論法，任何人都可以挑戰我的想法。","在這邊謝謝，剛剛把我對國會改革的一些想法提出來，謝謝各位。"],["主席（吳委員思瑤代）：好，謝謝吳召委的質詢。我非常認同吳召委的說法，我也觀察到你有很多並沒有連署國民黨的提案，希望在逐條審查的過程中，你可以捍衛您法律人的專業，違憲的條文就是不要支持。我支持你！","好，我們現在休息。","休息（12時31分）","繼續開會（12時44分）"],["主席：好，現在宣布繼續開會。","有請鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員質詢不在。","有請楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","有請張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡委員不在。","有請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","有請謝衣鳯委員，謝衣鳯委員，謝衣鳯委員不在場。","有請邱志偉，邱志偉，邱志偉委員不在場。","有請徐欣瑩，徐欣瑩，徐欣瑩委員不在場。","好，有請鍾佳濱召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.27471875,"end":8.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.869093750000001,"end":10.763468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.771593750000001,"end":15.083468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.075343750000002,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.74159375,"end":56.055968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.393468750000004,"end":61.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.37159375,"end":70.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.565343750000004,"end":64.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.34534375,"end":67.78409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.86409375000001,"end":70.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.70346875,"end":76.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.99784375,"end":99.20534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.04909375000001,"end":101.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.36534375000001,"end":114.19034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.18596875,"end":128.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.81659375,"end":158.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.80784375000002,"end":182.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.00659375,"end":199.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.94909375,"end":207.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.61034375000003,"end":210.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.59721875000002,"end":220.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.19471875000002,"end":221.95409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.67971875,"end":259.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.28159375,"end":282.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.78846875,"end":283.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.51409375000003,"end":284.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.33659375,"end":315.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.98159375,"end":323.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.82846875,"end":358.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.23221875,"end":378.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.44846875,"end":403.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.90034375000005,"end":434.14034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.68034375,"end":442.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.59471875,"end":449.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.27284375000005,"end":464.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.80221875,"end":481.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.60534375000003,"end":483.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.43221875,"end":493.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.91159375,"end":513.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.58784375,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.19034375,"end":520.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.56971875,"end":523.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.3247187500001,"end":526.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.64909375,"end":545.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.4097187500001,"end":555.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.9778437500001,"end":558.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.4584687500001,"end":583.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.88909375,"end":584.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.88471875,"end":585.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.4584687500001,"end":590.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.8584687499999,"end":593.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.96346875,"end":597.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.4734687499999,"end":599.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.75159375,"end":600.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.6628437500001,"end":606.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.53534375,"end":609.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.74159375,"end":611.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.5303437499999,"end":634.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.5603437500001,"end":639.0872187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.319,"end":7.919,"text":"麻煩秘書長秘書長"},{"start":13.396,"end":36.365,"text":"委員好秘書長好我想請教一下秘書長我先提一下我想國會調查權它的一個理念其實我們在法律上面也可以看到有相類似的理念比如說政府資訊公開法或檔案法這些東西其實它主要實現的就是人民資的權利所以我覺得國會調查權因為國會的這些議員都是"},{"start":41.167,"end":60.204,"text":"人民選出來的。他一樣是在實踐人民對於知的一個權利。所以我想請教一下秘書長對於大法官皆是以調查權然後獲取資訊能夠讓國會善盡民意機關的職責那秘書長是否同意憲法賦予立法院的這個職責?"},{"start":61.425,"end":61.445,"text":"案。"},{"start":77.125,"end":97.317,"text":"違反解讀秘書長的說法。」所以我想說秘書長這邊其實說得非常清楚那我們對於法律的見解我想說我大概的想法跟秘書長也是類似所以那個記者的報導可能有所誤解那我想請教一下那依據我們剛剛所說的那國會制定調查權這是違憲嗎"},{"start":100.246,"end":128.083,"text":"從五八五一路這樣推下因為本來立法院的調查權跟委員八號過五八五號解釋變本來是賦予我們這個普世性的權利嘛那在已經很明確的在解釋文裡面寫得很清楚了是 謝謝民主黨好 那我想請教一下那你知不知道為什麼憲法賦予這個國會的這個調查權這個權利我們一直急著要把它法制化民主黨知道原因嗎"},{"start":129.861,"end":157.414,"text":"其實我上次也說過因為我們現行的職權行使法本來就不足嘛所以因為當時我88年在處理的時候是只有3到5號解釋只有文件調閱那58號解釋是1993年才有的所以必須要去補強所以國衛的內內規的職權行使法在補強的時候調壓前這一章裡面本來就需要稍微再修正啦"},{"start":157.834,"end":181.931,"text":"我上次也說過我想我們把一個憲法上面的權利我們把它法制化中間有一個很重要的原因就是因為我們要把它的行使的要件把它明文對不對因為我國是仇文法國家我們把它明文下來讓政府讓這些立法委員在質詢的時候他有所依詢嘛那另外還有一個就是"},{"start":183.106,"end":198.096,"text":"如果你沒有一個法制化的話很容易在運作的時候就造成侵害人民權利甚至洩漏國家機密的風險所以這就是我們為什麼急著把它法制化的一個非常重要的原因"},{"start":199.98,"end":219.747,"text":"我來談一下就是說其實最近有很多人有很多委員一直講嘛哇你這個調查權這個什麼出來之後或者是你的對於這個呃呃國會國會對於這些受調查者的一些請他來說明或者是一些處罰他說這是老民啊什麼但是我在這邊跟各位報告"},{"start":221.246,"end":245.657,"text":"其實三權分立國家他們的國會也常常有很多東西是要去詢問到一般民間機關但是他是有個前提他絕對不是說亂七八糟想叫你來就來他一定是調查的事項是涉及到公共利益而且跟國會的職權有關聯性的時候才會做這件事情所以"},{"start":246.317,"end":268.762,"text":"很多時候是被帶風向,很多時候是危言聳聽,跟人民說哇那你家開麵店我就傳你過來國會這邊處罰,沒有這種事情啦。那你說華航,假設華航今天那個飛機沒有保養好,發生一些事故,我們請他來說明,這種跟公共利益有重大關聯性,這個才有可能。"},{"start":269.082,"end":283.932,"text":"例如美國國會常常找波音公司去問為什麼沒有人說他們那個叫老民我想說這個部分我想剛剛把它解釋說明一下這是怎麼回事另外就是我覺得"},{"start":285.85,"end":314.329,"text":"我們在行使這個調查權的時候比如說我的版本以及黨團的版本其實都非常的寫得很清楚就是有關調查權的行使我們是會那個準用到行政程序法以及刑事訴訟法其實為什麼我當時在寫法案的時候我會特別要求這個因為我自己本身是很重視程序正義我要求國會在做調查的時候在做懲罰的時候"},{"start":316.051,"end":334.526,"text":"不能自以妄為、不能擴權,所以一切要依照、要準用相關的程序法,這樣子才能保障人民的權利,也讓人民有救濟的管道。」這就是為什麼我的版本一直堅持說有一些東西要準用相關的程序法,也就是說在"},{"start":335.587,"end":337.347,"text":"議員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":359.252,"end":360.192,"text":"一、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":379.557,"end":394.623,"text":"關於機密外洩的問題,我們剛剛有講到說立法院職權行使的時候也是要保障讓機密不能外洩。你知不知道就是就我們立法院職權行使法還有國家機密保障法都有規範到這個部分。"},{"start":396.784,"end":423.513,"text":"例如說4至729號他有提到當立法院進行文件調閱的時候對於包含工商秘密的部分其實立法委員他有進到這個保密的義務這個在729號也寫得非常清楚也就是說729號其實他在你符合法定程序之下進到這些保密義務之下其實你去調閱這些私人的工商秘密這個是合憲的"},{"start":424.113,"end":449.667,"text":"我想大家可以去閱讀729號我想729號跟585號我們在這邊多次的攻防但我要跟各位報告法律的閱讀判決判例的閱讀我從學生時代到現在我就知道一個點不能只截一段來看必須整篇把它看完不能只截頭來看尾不看所以上次行政院副秘書長來這裡我為什麼發脾氣因為他在胡說八道"},{"start":450.707,"end":478.386,"text":"他亂解485號所以那次我很不高興我認為行政院的高官來這裡不能講那種話你要是說不懂的人來講就算了高官來這裡亂講話帶風向這個我不太能接受這也是國之不信啊走到那個位置的人卻胡說八道這真的不應該尤其行政本來要維持中立他不能玩政治他應該要持平的說如果你今天你依照585號去講我沒有意見但是你不能亂解485號"},{"start":480.408,"end":481.073,"text":"好,那那個"},{"start":482.657,"end":509.813,"text":"我想我最後我可能講一個東西也幫大家示意因為今天有直播示意幾個東西第一個我想柯總召他前幾天有講一句話叫做總統會被抓去關我想第一個我們念過憲法的人一定知道我不是迴憲亂政憲法五十二條非常清楚總統有刑事或免權"},{"start":510.613,"end":519.926,"text":"所以絕對不會發生總統在那邊被問一問抓去關的事情所以不要亂帶風向憲法五十二條再來第二個"},{"start":521.598,"end":545.643,"text":"有關我們藐視國會罪,其實這個適用上面也跟總統的關聯性沒有那麼大。比如說我的版本,總統他來國情報告他是基於憲政的秩序,跟質詢行政院的規範不同,跟聽證調查權的規範也不同,所以不會發生那種什麼總統來問一問被抓去關這個事情。"},{"start":546.643,"end":564.722,"text":"這崩馬牛不相及啊不能混在一起講所以我認為是這樣啦每一位我上次有講每一位立委先進我在這邊政治之力是最淺的每一位立委先進我都很敬佩每一個立委都是他的家族他的父母眼中的驕傲但是來這裡我認為不能亂帶風向"},{"start":567.425,"end":593.273,"text":"今天這個法案這個法律規範即使跟國民黨的邏輯不同我也不敢隨便亂講這是我的堅持所以我對於法律的解釋對於釋制的解釋我不會挑有力的來講我一定是持平看完之後該怎麼說就怎麼說就像我說總統要不要急問急答我的想法跟黨團不一樣那我勇於講出我的想法嘛我還是要講出我對於憲法的"},{"start":594.033,"end":608.509,"text":"感受是怎麼樣?跟大家不一定一樣但是我必須要勇敢的說出來那一樣我對於柯董昭說總統被抓去關這個我也覺得這個是亂帶風向因為憲法明定總統有刑事豁免權"},{"start":609.79,"end":633.957,"text":"再來我們說的行政院的這些我們對於行政權的這些監督這些聽證調查權跟總統也無關所以不存在總統抓去關這件事情我在這邊要特別說明我一切依法論法任何人都可以挑戰我的想法好那謝謝在這邊謝謝剛剛把這些我對於這個國會改革的一些想法提出來謝謝各位好謝謝吳朝偉的質詢我非常認同"}]}},{"id":"151465","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151465","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452137d88fafe211e60525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c9462550bf84ff2585b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:20:40 - 12:26:14","影片長度":"00:05:34","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":334,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:26:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:20:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1112,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時20分）主席、各位委員，有請朱主計長。"],["主席：請朱主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主計長辛苦了！"],["朱主計長澤民：不會啦，委員才辛苦，要上山下海。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，完全正確。還是要先跟主計長謝謝，我們看113年原民會原住民族綜合發展基金的收入裡面，包括辦理「原住民保留地禁伐補償計畫經費」公庫撥補收入21億元，這個非常謝謝。","也請基金預算處處長、公務預算處處長上臺。"],["朱主計長澤民：這個是公務，那個是基金。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，主計長，既然全部給付百分之百是公庫，為什麼一定要撥到這個基金？"],["朱主計長澤民：基金是擺在那邊可以循環使用，公庫是每年撥一次，如果不要原住民族綜合發展基金的話，那個基金就不能夠重複使用。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們一定要！原住民族綜合發展基金當然還是要，這個是從臺灣省政府開始就有的。"],["朱主計長澤民：我知道啦，那個是您任內的事，我們是讓所謂原住民的經費都會有一個來源，不管是基金，不管是公務預算，都是政府的錢。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，主計長，尤其是兩位處長，你們是公務員，我也是三十年的公務員，我們還是要依法行政。我們看預算法第四條第一項第二款，我已經跟主計長講過很多次這個條文了。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，8年前就講過了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：第一次讓處長上來，請看一下，預算法第四條第一項第二款：「凡經付出仍可收回，而非用於營業者，為作業基金。」原住民族綜合發展基金收支保管及運用辦法第三條：「本基金為預算法第四條第一項第二款所定之特種基金。」所以原民會的綜合發展基金預算書裡面也提到：「本基金係預算法第四條第二項第二款第四目所定，凡付出仍可收回。」禁伐補償撥出去之後是不會收回來的，這跟住宅貸款利息補貼不一樣，住宅貸款會有利息回來，所以這個部分有這樣一個不同的法律。"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，這種基金我們就是希望它能夠運用、能夠回收，所以我們也希望原民會能夠善於運用、能夠收回。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：重點是禁伐補償就不會啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：其他的有一部分不一定是做禁伐補償。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：禁伐補償就不會啊！為什麼會有禁伐補償？是因為森林法限制了原住民保留地這些自己所造的林、自己種的林木不能砍伐、不能出售，所以才要補償，這個是依法來補償，這個用詞「補償」就不會收回來。兩位處長，這個部分明年的預算新的內閣520之後開始要籌編，明年的預算必須要依法行政，這個是我們公務人員最基本的，所以這個部分怎麼去……何況反正公務預算也都不像過去，過去都是用綜合發展基金的錢，部分是公務預算，既然現在都已經是用公務預算的經費，那就不用撥到基金，這樣反而更合法。這個部分兩位處長誰可以說明？基金處處長是不是可以協調原民會，未來就是從公務預算就好了？","好，主計長，時間到了，還是要祝福你。"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：其實還沒有正式公布，現在只是報派而已嘛﹗"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：報派而已，有可能還是你。"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，所以碰到事情就問他們兩個，不問我了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有可能還是你啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝、謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":0.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.8072187500000001,"end":2.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.79846875,"end":3.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.29534375,"end":10.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.185343750000001,"end":11.489093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.489093750000002,"end":16.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.15909375,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.06159375,"end":22.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.43659375,"end":27.250343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.97596875,"end":30.524093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.418468750000002,"end":36.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.90284375,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.57346875,"end":38.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.096593750000004,"end":40.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.77971875,"end":45.002843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.509093750000005,"end":47.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.29346875,"end":49.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.28471875,"end":54.570968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.60846875,"end":59.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.743468750000005,"end":57.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.696593750000005,"end":61.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.99596875,"end":62.99159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.767843750000004,"end":65.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.46784375,"end":67.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.15534375,"end":69.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.89346875000001,"end":69.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.97784375,"end":70.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.02846875,"end":70.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.06221875,"end":70.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.11284375000001,"end":70.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.18034375,"end":70.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.21409375,"end":70.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.45034375,"end":70.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.48409375,"end":70.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.61909375,"end":70.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.13784375,"end":89.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.27034375000001,"end":89.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.18159375,"end":89.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.40096875,"end":96.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.47596875,"end":109.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.03659375000001,"end":100.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.98096875,"end":105.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.02659375,"end":111.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.09784375000001,"end":114.22409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.94971875,"end":115.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.96221875,"end":118.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.86471875000001,"end":121.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.20596875000001,"end":133.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.41159375,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.28846875000002,"end":136.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.37659375,"end":137.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.50721875000002,"end":144.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.21909375,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.82596875000002,"end":157.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.04846875,"end":158.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.39846875,"end":160.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.90034375000002,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.56221875,"end":168.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.52346875,"end":171.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.48471875,"end":175.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.79659375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.57284375,"end":181.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.82534375,"end":185.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.79096875000002,"end":186.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.30971875,"end":189.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.38534375,"end":190.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.32596875000002,"end":192.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.48159375,"end":195.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.59534375,"end":198.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.73846875,"end":207.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.18409375000002,"end":211.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.23409375,"end":216.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.18284375000002,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.19971875000002,"end":223.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.21909375,"end":228.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.26096875000002,"end":233.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.27721875,"end":247.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.22846875000002,"end":249.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.94971875000002,"end":250.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.68784375,"end":252.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.95346875,"end":253.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.40471875000003,"end":254.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.55221875,"end":261.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.61034375,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.55096875000004,"end":265.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.37346875000003,"end":269.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.01409375000003,"end":272.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.59159375,"end":276.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.50659375000004,"end":278.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.00846875,"end":280.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.18534375,"end":284.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.94846875,"end":286.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.60221875,"end":289.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.55096875000004,"end":294.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.87096875000003,"end":296.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.38534375,"end":298.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.37659375000004,"end":301.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.24971875,"end":302.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.58284375,"end":304.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.32096875,"end":304.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.82284375,"end":307.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.84346875,"end":310.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.15534375000004,"end":313.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.85096875,"end":323.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.99409375000005,"end":318.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.54659375,"end":319.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.22096875,"end":323.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.40659375,"end":325.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.95471875000004,"end":328.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.98846875000004,"end":329.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.19471875000005,"end":329.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.58284375,"end":332.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.61659375000005,"end":329.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.66721875,"end":333.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.55284375,"end":333.73409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.189,"end":26.835,"text":"委員請主計長。我們請主計長。主計長辛苦了。不會啦,委員才辛苦,要上山下海。對,完全正確。還是要先跟主計長謝謝。這個我們看113年,研民會所這個研築民族綜合發展基金"},{"start":28.241,"end":37.088,"text":"這裏面這個收入裏面了辦理原住民保留地進發補償計劃經費供庫撥補收入這個21億百萬千萬億21億這個非常謝謝但是我還是這個基金基金預算處的處長還有公務預算處的處長也請上來"},{"start":57.751,"end":70.427,"text":"這個是公務那個是基金對主席長為什麼既然全部幾乎百分之百是公庫為什麼一定要撥到這個基金那個是"},{"start":72.496,"end":90.275,"text":"基金是說擺在那邊可以循環使用公庫是每年這個撥一次如果說如果不要原住民發展基金的話那個是怎麼樣那個基金就不能夠重複使用"},{"start":90.875,"end":91.335,"text":"主席主席長"},{"start":115.014,"end":143.914,"text":"你們公務員我也是30年公務員我們還是要依法行政我們看預算法第4條第一項第二款我已經跟主計長講過很多次這個條文了所以8年前就跟你講過了第一次讓這個處長上來看一下預算法第4條第一項第二款凡金付出仍可收回而非用於營業者為作業基金"},{"start":146.44,"end":174.997,"text":"顏住民族中華發展基金收支保管及運用辦法第三條本基金為預算法第四條第一項第二款所定的特種基金所以顏民會的中華發展基金的預算書裏面也提到本基金預算法第四條第二項第二款第四目所定凡付出仍可收回建法補償啊"},{"start":176.9,"end":178.102,"text":"憲政委員會主席"},{"start":194.78,"end":210.666,"text":"這個部分有這樣的一個不同的法律跟那個委員報告一下我們這種基金就是希望他能夠運用能夠回收的所以我們也希望原民會能夠善於運用能夠收回"},{"start":212.307,"end":227.783,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":229.344,"end":233.586,"text":"一、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":255.875,"end":276.352,"text":"午夜新的內閣就要籌編了520之後開始要籌編明年的預算所以必須要依法行政這個是我們公務人員最基本的所以這個部分怎麼去何況反正公務預算也都不像過去不像過去過去都是"},{"start":281.223,"end":282.324,"text":"兩位處長誰可以說明這個未來基金的處長"},{"start":309.085,"end":328.377,"text":"是不是可以協調人民會未來就是從公務預算就好啦好主計長時間到了這個還是要祝福你啦謝謝雖然其實還沒有正式報直接只是報派而已啦對報派而已嘛所以對啊所以你碰到事情就碰他們兩個就不問我啦有可能還是你啊謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151464","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151464","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453e9ade5aad49fc9ff81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94a00f58aa63e905615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"12:11:48 - 12:20:47","影片長度":"00:08:59","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":539,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:20:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:11:48+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":467,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（12時12分）主席，我請秘書長。"],["主席：請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：秘書長你好。改革是大家都很喜歡，大家都很想要做的一件事情。合理說，改革就是要說自己好的，賣花要說花紅，賣茶要說茶香，對不對？現在卻不是這樣，都是互相漏氣，看藍綠白互相漏氣，也不一定會進步。藍的說綠的1990年說什麼、誰說了什麼，綠的說藍的1991年說什麼、誰說了什麼，本來就要審時度勢，事情本來就是時間不同，結果現在在這裡龜笑鱉無尾，鱉笑龜粗皮，你們坐在那裡看兩邊互罵，你們都微微笑。","我個人覺得，為什麼大家會提出改革方案？就是要滿足社會期待嘛。對不對？過去七、八年來，就是立法院自我閹割，民間說立法院幾乎就是行政院的立法局，處處只有背書嚒。現在要來面對，今天不是民進黨可以萬年執政，任何政黨都有可能執政，因為行政權的傲慢，才會造成他們有恃無恐，有人在背書，有人在扛，有人在護航嘛。這次剛好國會三黨不過半，不管誰執政，這就是一個改革最好的契機，結果不是，民進黨要趕，國民黨也要趕，大家本來可以好好坐下來談，一味杯葛是沒有辦法的，你要去思考為什麼今天國民黨要這麼緊急，就是因為行政權的傲慢！","我們就講我們的質詢好了，主席唱名三次沒有來，讓官員在那邊等，這種畫面出去，社會能夠容忍嗎？你們立法委員今日是沒有人對你們管考，所以比官員更沒有壓力，但是所有的官員壓力都很大，大家上班壓力都很大，法官壓力很大，檢察官壓力也很大，大家都有壓力，結果來這裡備詢，主席唱名立委不到，就叫官員坐在那邊等，這樣的畫面放出去，社會能夠諒解嗎？這本來就是大家要共同面對的。","再來是行政權的傲慢，國民黨今天在立法院要爭的不是擴權，而是復權，過去七、八年自我閹割，立法委員做得沒有尊嚴，部長沒有在跟你神經，乾脆就不說實話。詐騙集團為何會跟民進黨那些人合照？這和民進黨本身沒有關係，因為剛好是民進黨執政，今天若是國民黨執政，這些詐騙集團就會來和國民黨合照，為什麼？就是因為想要藉這個場面取得社會一般人民的信賴，行詐騙之實，所以詐欺案件會那麼多，就是因為行政權沒有得到適度的監督，他們可以來這邊「黑白講」，甚至可以對立委反質詢，覺得可以不用接受立委的質問，覺得自己沒說實話也不要緊，這些詐騙集團，和他們合照過的這些人就會覺得不要緊，越騙越多，也抓不到我們。你看臺版的柬埔寨案判決判那麼輕，那麼多檢察官抓那麼多人，移送那麼多，起訴那麼多，法官壓力那麼大，弄到最後詐騙的一枝獨大。","所以有關改革，我們也不用你笑我，我笑你，要務實來面對。過去若不是這樣的形體，就沒有臭雞蛋的案子，一個臭雞蛋案，就是不跟你說實話，問他雞蛋從哪裡來的，叫你不用問，問他買多少錢，也叫你不用問，對不對？一個高端疫苗，買多少也叫你不用問，跟誰買的合約書也叫你不用看。說立法權有多大，哪有多大？答應給你看，在秘密會議中的資料全部都塗黑，就像黑矸仔裝醬油，讓你看不出來、無處可看！要看什麼？這都是行政權傲慢之下衍生出來的產物，所以國民黨的提案怎麼會是叫做擴權？調閱權、調查權都可以討論，因為這些權是被限制的嘛。不可以形塑成拿到調查權以後立法委員就大到連衣服都穿不下，沒有那麼大啦！沒有那麼大啦！有很多方法可以規範我們，就算不接受規範或規範不到，最後人民也可以用選票來制裁，所以沒有那種沒有壓力的啦！","我在這裡是要求行政、立法、司法院際之間多一點平等而已，三黨不過半才有這個機會，總統當選人也很客氣，他也表達他願意來立法院報告，這就是可以建立憲政慣例的好時機。至於一問一答、即問即答、統問統答，或者是不予質詢，可以黨團協商、政黨協商嘛，政黨協商、自然而然我個人的看法，對元首給予適度的禮遇是合理的，賴清德今天如果是做市長，我是不能讓他這樣，他有特權，他可以問我，我是想讓他來問我，這樣比較精彩，他當行政院長也是這樣，但是他今天當選總統，我們要建立憲政慣例的時候，就針對這個部分來做政黨協商，大家可以來談要給總統禮遇到什麼程度。既然來到立法院，就沒有道理說，立法院開會時，行政院來報告，如果再要求總統來就沒有辦法，你身為秘書長，我問你，立法院有辦法接受這個業務嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：沒有問題啦！"],["謝委員龍介：對不對？這很簡單的事情。行政作為都可以承受，總統當選人他也願意來報告，這有什麼好爭議的？所以三黨這個時候應該是建立憲政慣例最好的時機，如果失去這個機會，將變成這屆立法院最大的遺憾。我們應該在這次掌握三黨不過半的時機，總統當選人也表達願意來，立法院的行政程序也可以滿足這個會議的進行、國是報告的進行，所以應該要接受國民黨所提出來的建議。民進黨如果有意見，沒關係，我們在政黨協商的時候，大家充分溝通。謝謝。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝謝委員，謝謝秘書長。","接下來有請吳召委宗憲委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.27471875,"end":7.1353437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.57721875,"end":16.230968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.31471875,"end":22.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.44909375,"end":28.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.91221875,"end":31.519718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.04284375,"end":32.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.70096875,"end":34.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.48096875,"end":37.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.252843750000004,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.205968750000004,"end":42.876593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.85534375,"end":46.369718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.12909375,"end":49.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.81221875,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.66346875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.48471875,"end":68.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.02846875,"end":72.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.20096875,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.90534375,"end":77.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.46596875,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.92971875,"end":83.20784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.74346875,"end":85.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.86971875,"end":87.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.05096875000001,"end":89.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.46409375,"end":92.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.21034375,"end":94.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.56034375,"end":97.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.44596875,"end":100.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.79971875000001,"end":106.61346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.77784375,"end":109.31346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.15284375,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.78534375000001,"end":117.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.17284375000001,"end":120.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.02034375000001,"end":123.23534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.19721875,"end":124.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.45409375000001,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.58846875,"end":132.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.36034375,"end":135.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.83221875,"end":140.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.88221875000002,"end":142.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.40534375000001,"end":143.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.89034375,"end":146.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.13846875000002,"end":150.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.73721875,"end":152.93534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.17159375,"end":154.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.01096875000002,"end":157.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.62221875,"end":164.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.23721875,"end":168.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.84846875000002,"end":170.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.45159375,"end":172.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.77596875,"end":175.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.87659375,"end":180.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.98159375,"end":183.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.54221875000002,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.28846875000002,"end":190.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.52846875,"end":192.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.50284375,"end":200.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.54784375000003,"end":204.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.71596875,"end":207.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.16721875000002,"end":209.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.27221875,"end":211.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.09909375,"end":216.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.43159375000002,"end":218.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.87846875000002,"end":221.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.58284375000002,"end":222.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.28284375,"end":225.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.11346875,"end":231.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.85534375,"end":233.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.93534375000002,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.65659375,"end":237.15846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.71534375000002,"end":238.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.33534375000002,"end":241.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.54596875000001,"end":242.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.43596875000003,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.57034375,"end":250.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.67534375000002,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.70034375000003,"end":253.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.98284375000003,"end":254.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.87284375000002,"end":257.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.65721875,"end":262.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.12909375000004,"end":264.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.77846875,"end":267.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.37721875,"end":270.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.46534375000005,"end":274.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.44784375,"end":280.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.10096875,"end":282.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.45909375,"end":285.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.96096875,"end":288.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.21784375000004,"end":291.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.01909375,"end":295.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.40659375,"end":299.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.03034375000004,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.25784375,"end":303.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.08471875000004,"end":306.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.10534375000003,"end":308.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.44221875,"end":312.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.50534375,"end":316.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.62284375,"end":317.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.71534375000005,"end":319.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.18346875000003,"end":321.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.05659375000005,"end":323.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.58784375000005,"end":325.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.32596875,"end":327.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.46471875000003,"end":330.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.62471875,"end":333.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.32471875000005,"end":336.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.41721875,"end":337.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.39596875,"end":340.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.86346875000004,"end":346.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.36471875,"end":349.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.36034375,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.23346875000004,"end":355.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.12721875,"end":357.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.51096875,"end":359.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.16034375000004,"end":361.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.65784375000004,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.31534375,"end":367.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.41221875,"end":372.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.47909375,"end":374.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.40284375000005,"end":376.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.30096875000004,"end":379.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.19096875,"end":382.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.88659375000003,"end":387.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.07159375000003,"end":389.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.75471875000005,"end":392.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.65721875,"end":395.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.25596875,"end":396.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.60596875000005,"end":398.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.23034375000003,"end":398.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.66471875,"end":400.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.18346875000003,"end":402.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.91721875,"end":406.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.79846875000004,"end":411.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.25346875,"end":415.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.41721875,"end":422.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.03659375,"end":423.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.90971875,"end":425.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.22596875000005,"end":426.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.39034375,"end":428.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.60534375000003,"end":429.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.56721875000005,"end":429.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.44471875000005,"end":430.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.79471875,"end":432.87471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.39784375000005,"end":434.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.38909375000003,"end":437.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.13971875000004,"end":439.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.51909375,"end":440.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.22784375000003,"end":442.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.69596875,"end":444.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.88971875000004,"end":447.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.09596875000005,"end":449.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.72846875000005,"end":451.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.01096875,"end":455.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.38159375000004,"end":460.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.14034375000006,"end":465.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.62471875000006,"end":467.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.09284375000004,"end":470.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.89409375,"end":471.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.17659375000005,"end":480.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.33971875000003,"end":482.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.47034375000004,"end":483.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.62221875000006,"end":483.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.03971875,"end":485.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.79034375000003,"end":488.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.98409375000006,"end":490.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.75596875,"end":492.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.73034375000003,"end":494.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.12659375000004,"end":496.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.83096875,"end":502.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.31096875000003,"end":504.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.58909375,"end":509.20034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.89221875000004,"end":516.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.94596875,"end":523.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.04721875,"end":517.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.7803437499999,"end":525.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.19346875,"end":529.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.2097187500001,"end":534.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.52534375,"end":536.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.45346875,"end":536.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.7234687499999,"end":537.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.44909375,"end":539.96346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":15.275,"text":"尋答主席我請秘書長秘書長你好這改革啊是大家都吃"},{"start":32.914,"end":53.748,"text":"該議,大家都很想要做的一件事。合理講,改革就是要講自己好的嘛。賣花要講花樣,賣茶要講茶香啊,對不對?不是啊,讓你們在這漏氣啊,看啊,被這樣互相漏氣,不一定會進步啦。"},{"start":56.701,"end":64.446,"text":"若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說若是說"},{"start":86.929,"end":92.571,"text":"為什麼大家會提出這個改革的方案?要滿足社會的期待嘛。對不對?過去的七八黨來,就是立法院主謀嚴格。民間說,那立法院就不會屬於是行政院的立法局啊。處處只有白書嘛。那麼,"},{"start":113.817,"end":120.26,"text":"要來面對,今天不是民進黨可以萬年執政,任何政黨都有可能可以執政。行政權會五萬。今天你比較會做生意最好是有事無窮嘛,因為有人在賠書、有人在挨、有人在護航嘛。這次剛好國會三檔沒過半。"},{"start":142.48,"end":145.882,"text":"這就是一個改革最好的契機啊!結果不是啊!民進黨也要看!國民黨也要看!大家本來可以好多少就要講啊!他們的皮革沒辦法!你要去思考說,為什麼今天國民黨要吃緊急?"},{"start":165.287,"end":175.451,"text":"因為行政權的五萬,咱說咱的這寸就好啦。主席講三百,叫三百沒來叫官員在那邊。這個衛民處在社會可以容忍嗎?你立法委員今天是沒人在跟你關課捏。所以會逼官員比較沒壓力。但是所有的官員嘛,會上班大家也壓力很大捏。法官也很大捏。檢察官也很大捏。大家都壓力啊。"},{"start":193.704,"end":200.327,"text":"結果來到這裡,你說你點點的、命點點的,你沒資訊,還要叫官員坐檔嗎?這個委員處理社會可以了解嗎?這本來就是大家要共同面對嘛。再來,行政權的五萬。今天,立法院今天在國民黨要選的,不是要扣款的,是要補款!過去的七百年,主謀嚴格!"},{"start":224.332,"end":225.473,"text":"違反委員做到不尊嚴﹑違反委員做到不尊嚴﹑違反委員做到不尊嚴"},{"start":243.496,"end":254.243,"text":"今天國民黨執政這個詐騙集團就來看國民黨協助會為什麼?我想要做這個中民出於社會一般人民的信賴行詐騙執行嘛所以這個詐欺的這麼多就是因為行政權沒得到適度的監督他可以來這裡亂講啊甚至可以把你委婚這順啊"},{"start":271.516,"end":280.363,"text":"我不用接受你的質問啦!我沒說實話啦!沒關係啦!這個詐騙集團怎麼去最多人說很好啊!沒關係啦!這越騙越多啊!也抓我們不中啊!你看看,台版的檢普案判罪又判那麼輕啦!那麼多檢測官抓那麼多人!以上那麼多、起訴那麼多!啊!發掘壓力比較大!啊!用到沒那麼大就詐騙了!一雞獨待啊!"},{"start":301.115,"end":306.179,"text":"所以這個改革啊,就是說,要不然你扯我,我扯你。政府是來面對嘛。過去,若不是這種的形態,就沒有這個操機能的案嘛。這個操機能,沒有要跟你講事的,機能對賭賣你也不用問,一顆玫瑰褲你也不用問。對不對?一個過端的疫苗,"},{"start":329.48,"end":339.549,"text":"此外,若你不想問,你不想看三、委員會的合約書嗎?說得對,立法院有多大?它有多大?讓你看筆密會議全部都給你圍毆筆!你只顧看導遊,你就看不了啦,不顧看啦,要看什麼?所以,這都是行政權五萬之下延伸出來的三分吧!"},{"start":356.215,"end":365.457,"text":"何謂立法院?這還是叫做扣款?條款、條紮款都可以討論,它是有批判罪的嘛。不能輕鬆說今天提到條紮款,不然立法院、立法委員大家大到三都穿不下,沒那麼大啦!沒那麼大啦!有很多可以給我們規範的啦!"},{"start":383.936,"end":389.218,"text":"你沒有要接受規範規範你不會到最好人民也可以用選票給你借財的所以沒有那個就沒有壓力了啦在這裡是要要求行政、立法、司法、議席之間大家盡量平靜而已啦三都沒有過半個月這個機會"},{"start":407.847,"end":410.85,"text":"總統也已經表達,總統當選人如果剛好很客氣,他也表達他願意來立法院報告。這就是可以建立憲政慣例的很好的時間。"},{"start":424.94,"end":438.483,"text":"一文一答、接文接答、同文同答﹐那才是規矩順。黨團協商、政黨協商、政黨協商主連、理連。當然我個人的看法,對元首、解釋度的內務,這合理,若清廷今天做市長我是不會當法院的,我問你,你問我。"},{"start":450.762,"end":454.263,"text":"議員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":472.213,"end":477.777,"text":"立法院：沒有那個說法規範：鄉長他若來報告還要求總統來報告：立法院若報告接受這個業務嗎?沒有問題啦。這很簡單的事情,鄉長作為都可以承受,總統鄧酸林若願意來報告,"},{"start":495.268,"end":501.656,"text":"這有什麼可以爭取的?所以三黨這個時候就是應該在建立憲政管理最好的時機,失去這個機會了,對啦。是這次在法院會變成最大的危險。"},{"start":509.963,"end":520.008,"text":"我們應該在今晚的將合這個三黨無過半,總統好選人若願意表達安捏,立法院的行政庭是可以滿足這個會議的進行,各司法局的進行。所以應該要接受國民黨所提出來這。那麼民進黨有意見,沒關係,我們來政黨合相的時候,大家充分的溝通。"},{"start":538.279,"end":538.319,"text":"謝謝我們謝委員、謝謝祕書長"}]}},{"id":"151463","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151463","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4459b9d0ac2845957770525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c9482c21a89343fc3a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"12:09:23 - 12:20:28","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":665,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:20:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:09:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1007,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（12時9分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，請主計長。"],["主席：請主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：主計長好，我們看到所有的物價萬物齊漲。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！像現在電視機就跌了大概7、8%，我們調查有三分之一是下跌，三分之二……"],["羅委員明才：電視機不會天天買啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有、沒有，沒有萬物齊漲。"],["羅委員明才：我家的電視機一買就快10年了，也不會壞。"],["朱主計長澤民：你是買好的，不一樣。"],["羅委員明才：我是買好的沒錯啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：對、對、對。"],["羅委員明才：可是除了電視機之外，民生方面大家常常要吃雞腿便當、要吃排骨便當，而民生用品各方面都一直在漲。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我跟委員報告一下，3月份跟2月份比較，物價下跌的有132多項，上漲的有191項。"],["羅委員明才：你都講少部分下跌的。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦，3月跟2月相比有132項下跌，很多啦！"],["羅委員明才：就是電視機嘛，還有什麼？洗衣機……"],["朱主計長澤民：還有啊……"],["羅委員明才：電冰箱。問題是電冰箱、洗衣機一臺可能都用十幾二十年啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：像哈密瓜、番石榴都比上個月下跌。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，你要感受到的是人民心中的痛。"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，民眾擺第一，國家也至上啊！"],["羅委員明才：國家要至上。"],["朱主計長澤民：是。"],["羅委員明才：所以我也很感佩你，這幾年你來立法院，這個字你都背下來了。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，因為委員時常講，所以我背下來。"],["羅委員明才：民眾內心的痛苦依然沒有解決，我每次都講什麼荷包蛋啊、茶葉蛋，今天就不講那個了。"],["朱主計長澤民：你要知道茶葉蛋的價格，我跟你報告一下……"],["羅委員明才：上次講過了，不要再講了！"],["朱主計長澤民：全家、萊爾富、OK的茶葉蛋1顆都13塊，7─ELEVEN是10塊，不過「所長茶葉蛋」是18塊；雞蛋散裝的一臺斤大概五十幾塊，盒裝的大概70塊左右。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，你上次的錄音帶調出來我都歷歷在目，所以這個部分今天就不談了。今天要談的是去年稅收又超徵了好幾千億，本席一直主張還稅於民，現在你要離開了嗎？520之前。"],["朱主計長澤民：我希望我離開，因為蔡總統給我的派令是到5月19號。"],["羅委員明才：新的賴總統有沒有找你談過？"],["朱主計長澤民：報紙上都說誰要來接，可是從來沒有發布，所以讓我好像很尷尬，說我要走了、我要走了。"],["羅委員明才：所以你也不能說你要走，可是如果你真的走的話……"],["朱主計長澤民：我不會走啦，我只是不站在這裡而已，我不會走、我不會走、不會走。"],["羅委員明才：我知道，是你離開這個位置啦，你真的走了、離開這個位置，你心裡應該想一下你過去的種種，其實人民一直很期待，最重要的就是……"],["朱主計長澤民：我對我過去一直覺得不會後悔，我對我過去不會後悔。"],["羅委員明才：像我來自新北，你統籌分配稅款該給我們的都沒給，算算10年來……"],["朱主計長澤民：統籌分配稅款是有一定的公式的，你可以問你們新北市的財政局長跟主計處長，他們都知道那個公式，而且他們以前就是主管這個的。"],["羅委員明才：沒有，以前主計長大得不得了，因為主計長握有金額、金流非常好的建議，大家都會尊重你這個位置的意見。"],["朱主計長澤民：主計長做事都要依法的，都要依法……"],["羅委員明才：我當然講是要依法啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，不能夠任意的……"],["羅委員明才：好，那請問主計長，依法你手上可以由你自己決定的權限有多……"],["朱主計長澤民：我從來沒有決定，因為要看各部會提出來的需求。"],["羅委員明才：好，依法從你身上可以下判斷、做決定的，大概可以勻挪的預算有多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：這都是我們的預算，都是各部會提需求，我們去給它排列順序，並不是由我來決定。"],["羅委員明才：好，第二預備金有多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：74億。"],["羅委員明才：74億，過去真的要動用預備金的時候，第一個都一定會問主計長那可不可以用。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個有一定的條件，要緊急特殊情況。"],["羅委員明才：當然有一定的條件，天災、人禍、地震等等重大災難。"],["朱主計長澤民：要符合條件。"],["羅委員明才：可是行政機關最重要的還是問主計長有沒有錢、可不可以用？還是會尊重你的意見。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個當然啦，我應該提供我專業的意見，說它是不是適合第二預備金動用的條件。"],["羅委員明才：所以主計長我要請教你的一個問題，臺北縣升格成為新北市，如果比照臺北市的話，那麼中央欠新北市多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個不能夠這樣比，因為像臺北市有很多市立的高中、高職，新北市雖然有可是比較少，而且原來在比較的時候，像統籌分配款有各項，它要考慮到各項自有財源的情況。"],["羅委員明才：但是新北市人口比較多啊，我們需要的資源更多，但你沒有撥給我們啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：在分配的時候人口不是唯一的因素，可是……"],["羅委員明才：你有沒有算過欠新北的部分？假設十幾年前就是同等直轄市的地位，累積起來應該再補助給新北市多少的預算？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個不能這麼算，我們都是依法、依標準給的，都有給……"],["羅委員明才：主席，請他旁邊那位來回答好嗎？旁邊那位是？"],["朱主計長澤民：一方面要看他對那個財力的貢獻，一方面要考慮他的需求。"],["主席：是許處長，請許處長來回答。"],["羅委員明才：麻煩處長，因為我覺得處長每一次的數字都比較精準一點。"],["朱主計長澤民：不會啦，對不對？我……"],["羅委員明才：我請處長。"],["主席：好，請處長回答。"],["許處長永議：我們以113年度為例，中央的統籌分配稅款和一般性補助款我們編列了570億元，如果和……"],["羅委員明才：五百多億元？沒有，全部是多少？"],["許處長永議：如果和96年度比的話增加了489億元。"],["羅委員明才：有增加嘛！"],["許處長永議：對，增加。"],["羅委員明才：去年統籌分配稅款的總數是多少？有沒有幾千億？"],["朱主計長澤民：四千多億啦！"],["羅委員明才：哇，薑還是老的辣，好、好、好，處長請回好了啦！","你看，講到重點的時候主計長都會跳出來，其實主計長數字觀念很多。"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：但是有時候很多事情講重點了但你都不談，這樣子啦，下一次這個位置你覺得應該具備什麼樣的條件才是比你好的主計長？"],["朱主計長澤民：外面報紙寫那個人比我好，因為他是根正苗紅的主計人，我只做8年，他做了快40年。"],["羅委員明才：根正苗紅，這是政治判斷正確嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：根正苗紅，他從二十幾歲做到65歲退休，然後他的主管再重用他，再請他當政務官，這個是報派的那一個啦！"],["羅委員明才：你說你根不正苗不紅喔？"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有根不正苗不紅，我就是站在這裡，就是直立的。"],["羅委員明才：這樣子啦，主計長，反正大家也都會祝福你，不管怎麼樣，常常在這邊碰面……"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝，你要替我找一些工作。"],["羅委員明才：你也算是一個和藹可親的人，可是你離開這個位置以後是更加海闊天空。有沒有人已經開始來徵詢你或者是找你？"],["朱主計長澤民：你都不替我介紹，我哪裡會有？"],["羅委員明才：那你想要去哪裡啊？"],["朱主計長澤民：你替我介紹啊，有地方我就去啊。"],["羅委員明才：去賣茶葉蛋。"],["朱主計長澤民：不要啦，我老了，挑不動茶葉蛋了。"],["羅委員明才：我是希望主計長可以用你的所學所能多多到民間去看一看。"],["朱主計長澤民：不要啦，那個……"],["羅委員明才：把你寶貴的經驗分享給下一個接棒的人。"],["朱主計長澤民：我退休以後……有部長說他退休以後是路人甲，那我是路人乙，在路上碰到，路人乙會跟路人甲打招呼。"],["羅委員明才：因為你平常可能很多時間都在辦公室吹冷氣，我們希望你有時間、有機會、比較空閒的時候，可以……"],["朱主計長澤民：辦公室的冷氣沒有超過28度是不能開的。"],["羅委員明才：深入民間到基層，多多到萬華龍山寺去走一走、看一看，到每一個市場去走一走、看一看，還有在哪裡啊？在南京東路臺大醫院前面，你去看看……"],["朱主計長澤民：南京東路怎麼會有臺大醫院？"],["羅委員明才：有時候你會看到很多流離失所的街友，很多人在那邊賣口香糖、賣玉蘭花，希望主計長能把這些真正翔實的社會的情況分享給你的同仁，或者建議給未來的主計長，讓他了解人民是苦哈哈的，政府有錢應該要把錢拿出來還稅於民，照顧所有窮苦的老百姓。"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，我們的總預算裡面有百分之二十五、六都是花在社會福利上。謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅明才委員。","接下來請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.55346875,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.076593750000001,"end":5.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.257843750000001,"end":9.025343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.649718750000002,"end":10.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.49221875,"end":19.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.14596875,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.46221875,"end":22.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.559093750000002,"end":43.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.59596875,"end":31.199093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.852843750000005,"end":33.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.143468750000004,"end":36.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.74221875,"end":39.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.17221875,"end":41.610968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.150968750000004,"end":42.555968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.36596875,"end":44.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.27721875,"end":46.352843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.994093750000005,"end":53.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.250343750000006,"end":55.650968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.34284375,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.05846875,"end":78.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.02409375,"end":71.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.90534375,"end":76.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.36034375,"end":87.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.59659375000001,"end":87.22409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.41346875,"end":91.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.69596875,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.10471875,"end":99.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.01159375,"end":97.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.67784375000001,"end":105.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.52909375,"end":110.83221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.37221875,"end":112.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.41409375,"end":117.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.58221875000001,"end":118.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.37096875,"end":119.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.86034375000001,"end":133.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.19784375,"end":121.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.11721875,"end":124.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.26471875000001,"end":124.28159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.48409375000001,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.64721875,"end":148.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.79909375,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.47346875,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.40846875,"end":154.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.69034375,"end":164.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.95034375,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.29596875000001,"end":168.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.17346875,"end":169.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.94096875000002,"end":171.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.53409375,"end":184.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.89659375000002,"end":185.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.19596875000002,"end":199.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":208.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.71284375000002,"end":200.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.78409375,"end":204.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.53846875000002,"end":221.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.75284375,"end":219.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.12284375000002,"end":222.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.18596875,"end":223.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.16471875000002,"end":225.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.91971875000002,"end":226.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.96596875,"end":246.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.49721875,"end":232.50096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.13159375,"end":247.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.84034375000002,"end":248.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.98784375000002,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.19846875000002,"end":251.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.16034375,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.97034375,"end":253.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.94909375,"end":255.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.85596875000002,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.11721875,"end":259.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.58096875,"end":262.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.19971875000005,"end":271.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.71409375,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.25784375,"end":283.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.07971875000004,"end":283.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.10471875,"end":293.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.04409375,"end":295.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.03534375000004,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.13221875,"end":312.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.64596875,"end":306.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.01221875000005,"end":309.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.84284375000004,"end":313.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.87221875,"end":314.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.52596875,"end":316.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.73659375,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.85034375000004,"end":320.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.58846875,"end":322.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.17034375000003,"end":333.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.69596875,"end":337.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.08784375000005,"end":344.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.60159375,"end":380.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.84221875000003,"end":371.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.64784375000005,"end":372.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.91346875000005,"end":377.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.08534375000005,"end":382.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.05971875,"end":383.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.34221875000003,"end":384.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.27034375000005,"end":393.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.38284375,"end":395.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.31096875000003,"end":413.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.81659375000004,"end":404.22096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.77784375000005,"end":405.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.05159375000005,"end":412.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.57409375000003,"end":412.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.17721875,"end":415.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.27846875,"end":415.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.21909375,"end":416.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.04596875000004,"end":419.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.36596875000004,"end":423.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.93096875000003,"end":425.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.48721875,"end":437.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.81909375000004,"end":447.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.94971875000005,"end":440.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.52221875000004,"end":448.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.97346875000005,"end":449.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.63159375000004,"end":449.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.64846875,"end":450.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.64784375000005,"end":454.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.60534375000003,"end":456.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.34346875000006,"end":462.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.61346875000004,"end":458.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.70971875000004,"end":471.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.13471875000005,"end":470.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.75471875000005,"end":474.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.21409375,"end":477.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.11659375000005,"end":486.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.35159375,"end":499.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.08784375000005,"end":503.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.64034375000006,"end":501.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.24784375,"end":502.41659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.76221875000005,"end":510.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.30971875000006,"end":518.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.86971875,"end":521.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.2153437500001,"end":527.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.8303437500001,"end":528.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.89346875,"end":530.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.42909375,"end":531.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.54284375,"end":532.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.55534375,"end":547.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.47909375,"end":536.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.02721875,"end":538.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.2209687500001,"end":539.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.4053437499999,"end":554.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.6953437500001,"end":557.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.6272187500001,"end":559.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.9265937499999,"end":564.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.5503437500001,"end":565.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.1028437500001,"end":579.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.9197187500001,"end":578.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.09659375,"end":588.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.2903437500001,"end":582.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.5347187500001,"end":584.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.63534375,"end":588.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.9853437500001,"end":593.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.5078437500001,"end":594.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.43159375,"end":598.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.19471875,"end":600.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.78096875,"end":605.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.18596875,"end":603.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.0547187500001,"end":604.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.4890937499999,"end":607.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.32409375,"end":611.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.6484687500001,"end":612.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.84659375,"end":613.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.6397187499999,"end":615.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.7109687500001,"end":617.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.29721875,"end":619.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.3603437500001,"end":625.4522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.2209687500001,"end":621.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.04284375,"end":636.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.6909687500001,"end":641.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.9897187500001,"end":642.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.1159687500001,"end":645.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.57971875,"end":650.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.95034375,"end":662.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.9834687499999,"end":655.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.2565937500001,"end":663.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.01596875,"end":663.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.6909687500001,"end":663.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.2309687500001,"end":665.71596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.508,"end":10.594,"text":"主席各位主席各位請主席長我們請主席長主席長你好主席長我們看到"},{"start":20.31,"end":46.066,"text":"所有的物價萬物齊漲沒有啦現在像電視機就跌到大概7、8%沒有啦這個我們調查有三分之一是下跌電視機不會天天買啊沒有沒有萬物齊漲我家的那個電視機一買快10年了不會壞那個你是買好的不一樣是買好的沒錯啊可是除了電視機之外"},{"start":47.048,"end":61.896,"text":"民生大家常常要吃雞腿便當要吃排骨便當民生用品各方面都一直在漲對那個我跟委員報告一下3月份的話跟2月份比較物價下跌的有132上漲的有191項"},{"start":67.273,"end":68.194,"text":"主席主席長"},{"start":91.786,"end":107.343,"text":"要感受到的就是人民心中的痛對啊民眾擺第一,國家要至上所以我也很感佩你這幾年來立法院這個字你都背下來了民眾內心的痛苦依然沒有解決"},{"start":113.539,"end":130.112,"text":"我每次都講什麼荷包蛋啊這個茶葉蛋今天就不講那個了今天講什麼呢你要知道茶葉蛋的價格我跟你們報告一下我上次講過了不要再講了對那個全家萊爾夫OK茶葉蛋一顆都13塊這邊UNAMEN10塊不過首長的蛋是18塊對"},{"start":133.675,"end":135.437,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":149.465,"end":168.348,"text":"主席長你那上次的錄音帶掉出來我都歷歷在目所以這個部分今天就不談了今天要談的就是說去年啊稅收又超徵了好幾千億本席一直主張還稅漁民啊現在你要離開了嗎"},{"start":170.768,"end":198.613,"text":"五二零之前我希望我離開因為蔡總統給我派令是到5月19號那新的賴總統有沒有找你談過那個是就是說報紙上都說誰要來接可是從來沒有發布所以讓我好像很尷尬說我要走了我要走了對不對所以你也不能講說你要走可是如果你真的走的話"},{"start":199.773,"end":215.838,"text":"我不會走了,我只是站在這裡而已。我不會走了。你真的走了,離開這個位置,那你心裡應該想一下你過去的種種嘛。我對我過去一直覺得不會後悔。"},{"start":222.2,"end":249.816,"text":"新北那你統籌分配稅款給我們的該給的都沒給統籌分配稅款是有一定的公式的你可以問你們的財政問新北的財政局長跟那個主計處長他們都知道那個公式而且他們以前就是主管這個的沒有以前主計長大了不得了因為主計長他未有"},{"start":251.243,"end":274.544,"text":"金額、金流的一個非常好的一個建議以及大家都會尊重你這個位置的意見主計長就是都要依法的都要依法的沒有不能夠任意的那請問主計長依法你手上可以由你自己來決定的權限我從來沒有說決定是因為是要依法依法依法"},{"start":276.866,"end":302.435,"text":"從你的這個身上你可以下判斷做決定的大概可以允諾的預算有多少這都是我們的預算都是各部會提需求我們去給他排列順序並不是說由我來決定第二預備金有多少74億過去真的要動用預備金的時候第一個都一定會問主計長那可不可以用"},{"start":303.155,"end":321.815,"text":"那個有一定的條件要緊急透出情況,對嘛,天災人禍地震等等重大的災難,對要符合條件要符合條件可是可是行政機關最重要的還是問那主計長有沒有錢可不可以用還是會尊重你的意見喔"},{"start":323.843,"end":343.628,"text":"當然啦我應該提供我的專業的意見說它是不是適合第二預備金的動用的條件所以主席我要請教你的一個問題就是臺北縣升格成為新北市如果比照臺北市的話那中央欠新北市欠了多少錢?"},{"start":344.668,"end":361.18,"text":"我那個是不能夠是這樣比因為像台北市它有很多這個是什麼勢力的高中高高職那新北市是雖然有可是他是比較少而且那個原來的那個在比較的時候像統籌分配款的話"},{"start":363.522,"end":365.163,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":385.347,"end":393.054,"text":"新北的這個部分假設十幾年前就是同等直轄市的地位的話累積起來的話"},{"start":395.451,"end":405.756,"text":"應該再補助給新北市多少的預算?那個是不能這麼說,我們都是依法依標準是自由給的,一方面他要看他所謂的對那個財力的貢獻,一方面要考慮他的需求。麻煩處長,因為我覺得處長每一次的數字都比較精準一點。"},{"start":421.572,"end":421.852,"text":"請處長回答"},{"start":428.644,"end":456.414,"text":"我們以113年度為例我們這個中央的統籌分配稅款和一般性補助款我們是編入了570億如果說是和5百多億沒有全部是多少如果和96年度來比的話是增加了489億元有增加嘛那去年的總數是多少統籌分配稅款幾千億有沒有幾千億四千多億啦"},{"start":457.369,"end":473.68,"text":"哇,那還是薑是老的啦,那個,處長請回好了啦。你看,講到重點的時候,主計長都會跳出來。其實主計長數字觀念很多,但是有時候,很多事情講重點的你都不談。"},{"start":475.507,"end":503.079,"text":"這樣子啦,下一次的你這個位置你覺得應該具備什麼樣的條件才是比你好的主計長他比我好,外面報紙寫的那個比我好因為他是跟鄭苗紅的主計人我只做8年,他是做了快40年跟鄭苗紅,這是政治判斷正確嗎?"},{"start":505.064,"end":505.384,"text":"這樣子啦 處理長反正"},{"start":532.817,"end":556.318,"text":"大家也都會祝福你,不管怎麼樣,常常在這邊碰面,你也算是一個和藹可親的人可是你離開這個位置以後,你也是更加海闊天空有沒有人已經開始來徵詢你,或者是找你你都不替我介紹我哪裡有的人那你想要去哪裡啊?你替我介紹我有地方就去"},{"start":558.683,"end":568.732,"text":"去賣茶葉蛋不要啦我老了挑不凍茶葉蛋了我是希望主計長你可以用你的所學所能"},{"start":569.4,"end":594.137,"text":"多多到民營間去看一看不要啦把你寶貴的經驗分享給下一個接棒的人國防部長說他退休以後是路人甲那我是路人椅在路上碰到路人椅會跟路人甲打招呼因為你平常可能很多的時間都在辦公室吹冷氣我們希望"},{"start":595.492,"end":615.373,"text":"有時間有機會比較空閒的時候你可以深入民間的基層多多到萬華龍山市去走一走看一看到每一個市場去走一走看一看還有在哪裡啊在南京東路"},{"start":616.735,"end":645.269,"text":"台大醫院前面你去看看藍金東路怎麼會有台大醫院有時候你會看到很多琉璃屍所的街友很多人在那邊賣口香糖賣玉蘭花希望主計長能把這些真正詳實的社會的情況分享給你你的同仁或者建議給未來的主計長讓他了解人民是苦哈哈的"},{"start":646.636,"end":661.748,"text":"政府有錢是應該要把錢拿出來還稅於民來照顧所謂的窮苦的老百姓。跟委員報告一下我們的總預算裡面有百分之二十五六都是花在社會福利上。"}]}},{"id":"151462","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151462","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445d98a0546e4fcd6728f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c948f6a9c70dc4894db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:53:28 - 12:02:52","影片長度":"00:09:24","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":564,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:02:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:53:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":802,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時53分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的機關首長官員、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請內政部吳次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有原民會的鍾副主委。"],["主席：好，鍾副主委。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有中選會的余處長。"],["主席：好，中選會的余處長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長好、副主委好、余處長好。我先請問一下副主委。請問目前我們在選舉上常用來稱呼的山地原住民和平地原住民是從什麼時候開始有這樣的界定？山地原住民和平地原住民在選舉的時候有這樣的區分是從什麼時候、哪裡開始有這個規定的？可能有點久遠了，我暗示一下，在1996年到2000年我曾經擔任第3屆的國民大會代表，那時候我們曾經修過憲法增修條文，有記憶了嗎？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：增額國大的時候。"],["鍾委員佳濱：在增額國大之前，我們為了讓原住民族的參政權在憲法的層次當中得以保障，所以是不是我們在增修條文當中特別針對當時在終結萬年國會之後，我們進行國會的全面改選，有鑑於要保障原住民族的參政權，所以我們在增修條文中臚列了山地原住民和平地原住民的區隔，並且名額分別計算，有沒有？好，請中選會余處長。請問，我們歷來辦理這樣的一個選舉跟其他的選舉有沒有連動、關連，還是我們在辦理立法委員的選舉時就按照憲法增修條文的規定辦理，還是要受到其他地方選舉或是民意機關的改選而影響？"],["余處長淑𡝮：我們就是依法辦理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：依法辦理，有回答跟沒回答一樣。請問次長，次長過去在地方政府服務過，您覺得地方政府、地方民意機關的職權和中央政府立法委員的職權是不是有所區別？"],["吳次長容輝：是的，不一樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：為什麼會有地方制度法跟增修條文對於國家憲政機關的規定是不太一樣的，是不是這樣？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你認為地方政府、地方議會、地方民意機關、地方民意代表的產生方式是否要完全比照憲法或增修條文當中對於中央民意機關或者立法委員選舉方式的拘束？"],["吳次長容輝：我想憲法層次規範的大概是立法委員的部分有明確的規範，地方的部分則回歸到地制法的相關規定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以並沒有一定要由地制法來比照，請問鍾副主委，當初設定山地原住民和平地原住民的時候有規定山地原住民一定要住在山地鄉，平地原住民就不能住在山地鄉嗎？有沒有這個規定。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：並沒有這個規定，還是依他原來居住的環境當時的設定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當時有他的設定，後來原住民有固定在那個地方不能動了嗎？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：遷徙自由。"],["鍾委員佳濱：遷徙自由嘛，所以現在六都是不是有很多原住民同胞在那邊居住？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請問居住在六都裡面的原住民朋友到底是山地原住民還是平地原住民在沒有選舉的時候會有區分嗎？坐高鐵時要區分買票嗎？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：並沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：登記戶籍時要區分計算嗎？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：以目前來講，山原、平原大概是在選舉時才有區分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，而且是選立法委員時才要，對不對？可不可以說為了保障居住在六都或者非山地鄉原住民的參政權，參與地方民意機關的名額設計不受憲法增修條文山原和平原的規範拘束，有沒有這樣的要求？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：並沒有，不過如果能提升他的參政權，我們都樂觀其成。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然我也認為要保障不管住在哪裡原住民同胞的參政權，請教中選會余處長，你知道目前屏東縣縣議會有幾席嗎？"],["余處長淑𡝮：目前？"],["鍾委員佳濱：請次長講好了，次長還比較清楚。"],["吳次長容輝：55席。"],["鍾委員佳濱：人口80萬以上是55席，現在屏東縣的人口數未達80萬，以後會剩幾席？"],["吳次長容輝：以後會剩到43席，就少了12席。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個80萬人口的計算有區分原住民和非原住民嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：它是併在一起計算。"],["鍾委員佳濱：它是併在一起計算的，我要說的是目前我們看到的地制法各個版本其實有很多的計算方式，但是我發現過去地制法設計時有點過頭的援用了憲法增修條文中對於原住民行使中央民意機關參政權的山原和平原的規定，也在六都居住人口當中創設了山原和平原，而且只有針對平原的部分予以名額特殊規定的計算，山原並沒有。我要說，山原跟平原本來就是在立法委員的選舉才有區分，地方民意機關不管是都或非都並沒有這樣區分，是不是？有這樣的區分嗎？我剛剛就問過了，難道投立法委員時山原和平原會限制是住在都或非都？住在山地鄉或非山地鄉？有沒有？"],["吳次長容輝：這部分是沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有嘛，為了充分保障每個都或非都地方政府的自治，應該以當地人口當中又區分成原住民族和非原住民族來保障原住民族的席次計算，你認為這樣是否妥適，是無法回答或者你們希望本會、本院解決？"],["吳次長容輝：我想這一部分現在還沒討論到底要不要跟他們併在一起。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以我在問你們的意向嘛！可能你們不便回答。而我認為在目前的版本當中，有的版本還沒有思考到針對保障原住民同胞的參政權，無論是在都與非都，在地方議會選舉當中其實沒有作區分、分別計算的必要。但是同此時間，其額數的計算會牽動地制法當中對於該縣市議會名額的計算。以屏東縣為例，80萬是以已計入原住民同胞的選民為主，而從80萬至不到80萬就差了12席。但是如果把原住民族的參政權區分開來，例如把屏東縣不到80萬、是78萬的人口區分成原住民跟非原住民，算起來屏東縣非原住民的議會席次可以達到幾席？有沒有大概初算過？我聽說大概少了5席，大概是49席到50席，是不是這樣？"],["吳次長容輝：對，跟外加一樣，會少5席，算是緩降。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，因為目前各版本中有外加、有內含，而且不是只有影響到原住民族選民的參選權利，也影響到非原住民、居住在同一縣市其他選民參與選舉席次的計算員額，是不是這樣？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是！所以本席在此謝謝主席給本席這樣的時間。未來在我們討論地制法這個議題的時候，我強烈地支持保障原住民朋友在地方政府、地方議會的參政權，包括其席次、名額應該單獨計算，但是沒有受到憲法增修條文規範作山地跟平原之區分的必要。第二，在計算名額的同時也要兼顧到該縣市居住的非原住民人口，在計算議席消長變化之下為妥慎的規劃。對於這樣的內容，請問次長，你可以承諾給我們一個設算的結果嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：我們會把設算結果提供給委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：大概多久？"],["吳次長容輝：這個很快，我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：1天、2天？還是下個星期？"],["吳次長容輝：下個星期就給委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。","那我拜託主席做個裁示，希望內政部儘快把設算的可能方向給予本院，也提供給本委員會參考，以作為後續各個版本修法時的參酌，可以嗎？"],["主席：委員，因為其他委員沒有提這樣的版本，而今天我們修的版本就是由高金素梅委員……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不！我是說內政部的報告啦！要趕快提來我們委員會啦！"],["主席：對，但我們今天就要排審我的版本還有鄭天財委員版本的增修條文，以及伍麗華委員的版本。"],["鍾委員佳濱：喔！不影響啦！主席，那個不影響。"],["主席：但是你剛剛說的是平原與山原部分，而我們今天只處理山原部分，好不好？"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝，那是不是裁示請內政部下週送來？"],["主席：對，我們請他提出。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員、謝謝次長。","繼續我們請楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","丁學忠、丁學忠、丁學忠委員不在。","登記發言的委員除了不在場者之外，其餘都已發言完畢，詢答結束。","委員莊瑞雄、丁學忠所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.71846875,"end":8.485343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.485343750000002,"end":9.480968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.61596875,"end":12.501593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.332843750000002,"end":13.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.712218750000002,"end":16.652843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.864093750000002,"end":15.117218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.73721875,"end":18.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.559718750000002,"end":22.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.96409375,"end":26.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.49096875,"end":27.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.11534375,"end":35.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.52721875,"end":39.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.77159375,"end":40.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.73346875,"end":42.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.28159375,"end":45.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.205343750000004,"end":46.656593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.54659375,"end":48.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.59721875,"end":56.798468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.96721875,"end":59.346593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.56596875,"end":61.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.034093750000004,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.962218750000005,"end":70.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.60221875,"end":73.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.40346875,"end":77.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.77409375,"end":80.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.23784375000001,"end":92.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.72096875000001,"end":96.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.99471875,"end":98.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.58096875000001,"end":115.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.69221875000001,"end":117.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.48096875,"end":122.18909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.67846875000001,"end":134.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.76096875000002,"end":144.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.31784375,"end":135.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.43034375000002,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.71721875,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.18034375000002,"end":160.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.62596875,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.01596875,"end":187.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.29284375,"end":191.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.18721875,"end":188.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.54971875,"end":191.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.30909375000002,"end":192.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.84909375,"end":191.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.13596875000002,"end":192.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.23284375,"end":193.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.05971875,"end":196.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.96221875,"end":199.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.87346875,"end":198.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.63284375,"end":198.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.68346875,"end":198.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.05471875,"end":202.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.76721875,"end":203.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.23971875,"end":208.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.77034375000002,"end":211.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.40721875000003,"end":212.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.11159375000003,"end":215.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.28846875000002,"end":216.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.28409375,"end":219.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.42721875,"end":219.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.70971875,"end":222.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.44346875000002,"end":225.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.36284375000002,"end":238.40721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.03159375,"end":242.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.08159375000002,"end":243.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.52034375000002,"end":244.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.14034375000003,"end":249.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.92034375000003,"end":249.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.57846875,"end":249.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.69659375,"end":251.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.77221875,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.45096875000002,"end":257.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.30284375,"end":258.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.26471875000004,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.67346875000004,"end":263.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.31471875,"end":263.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.39471875000004,"end":281.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.33909375,"end":269.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.14409375,"end":276.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.56159375000004,"end":276.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.73034375000003,"end":276.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.53971875,"end":282.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.62409375000004,"end":281.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.14284375,"end":292.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.58971875000003,"end":285.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.71096875,"end":295.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.77409375,"end":294.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.49534375,"end":297.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.45284375,"end":303.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.54471875,"end":310.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.83471875000004,"end":323.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.91284375000004,"end":328.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.14409375,"end":330.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.69659375000003,"end":333.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.68346875000003,"end":335.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.67471875,"end":338.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.66159375,"end":340.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.20534375,"end":358.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.59096875,"end":366.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.94784375,"end":370.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.50034375,"end":373.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.16659375,"end":374.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.34346875,"end":389.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.11784375,"end":401.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.36471875,"end":409.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.00471875000005,"end":419.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.57721875000004,"end":422.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.00284375,"end":432.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.43596875000003,"end":433.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.25846875,"end":436.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.35471875,"end":441.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.97034375000004,"end":444.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.95721875000004,"end":455.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.24784375,"end":450.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.19596875,"end":462.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.72221875,"end":465.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.86534375,"end":466.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.15221875000003,"end":468.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.17721875,"end":470.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.02909375,"end":474.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.16784375000003,"end":484.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.37721875000005,"end":485.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.30534375,"end":489.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.79409375000006,"end":502.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.96909375,"end":509.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.09909375,"end":509.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.75284375,"end":512.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.60909375,"end":519.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.28721875,"end":530.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.99846875,"end":540.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.84971875,"end":541.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.80721875,"end":547.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.5490937500001,"end":547.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.97909375,"end":553.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.20596875,"end":554.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.5559687500001,"end":556.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.1128437500001,"end":556.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.18034375,"end":563.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.2140937500001,"end":558.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.25159375,"end":561.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.93471875,"end":562.6940937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.895,"end":15.01,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席的政府局長、首長、官員、會長、公眾夥伴、媒體、技術女士先生。有請我們內政部吳次長。還有原民會的中副主委。中選會的余處長。次長好、副主委好、還有余處長好。"},{"start":23.552,"end":46.066,"text":"我先請問一下我們的副主委請問目前我們在選舉上常用來稱呼的三地原住民跟平地原住民是從什麼時候開始有這樣的界定的?三地原住民跟平地原住民選舉的部分在選舉的時候會有這樣的區分是從什麼時候哪裡開始有這個規定?"},{"start":51.525,"end":70.009,"text":"我曾經擔任過國民大會代表第三屆在1996年到2000年的時候,那時候我們曾經修過憲法整修條文,有記憶了嗎?在爭俄國大之前,我們為了讓原住民族的參政權在憲法的程式當中得以保障"},{"start":70.709,"end":95.543,"text":"所以是不是我們在徵修條文當中特別針對當時在終結萬年國會之後我們進行國會的全面改選有鑒於要保障原住民族的參政權所以我們在徵修條文當中有如列了三地原住民跟平地原住民的區隔並且名額分別計算有沒有是好那我們請中選會那個余處長"},{"start":97.042,"end":114.885,"text":"那請問我們歷來辦理這樣的一個選舉跟其他的選舉有沒有連動關聯還是在辦理立法委員選舉的時候我們就按照這個憲法正條文規定辦理還是要受到其他的地方選舉或是民意機關的改選而影響有沒有"},{"start":115.891,"end":134.167,"text":"我們就是依法來辦理。依法來辦理,這個有回答跟沒回答一樣。好,我先問一下次長啦。次長,您也是過去在地方政府服務過啦。你覺得地方政府、地方民意機關的職權和中央政府、立法委員的職權是不是有所區別?"},{"start":135.367,"end":159.44,"text":"所以為什麼會有地方制度法跟我們正優條文對於國家憲政機關的規定是不太一樣的?是不是這樣?所以你認為我們地方政府、地方議會、地方民意機關、地方民意代表產生方式是否要完全比照憲法或正優條文當中對於中央民意機關或者是立法委員選舉方式的計數?"},{"start":161.67,"end":175.877,"text":"我想這個憲法程式它規範大概是立法委員部分它有規範那地方的部分就回歸到地制法的相關規定所以並沒有一定要由地制法來比照好來我們請中副主委"},{"start":177.259,"end":202.863,"text":"請問一下,原來你知道在當初設定3D原住民跟平地原住民的時候,有規定3D原住民一定要住在3D鄉,那平地原住民就不能住在3D鄉嗎?有沒有這個規定?並沒有這個規定。並沒有這個規定?這是以他原來居住的環境當時設定的。對,當時有他的設定。後來,原住民有固定就在那個地方不能動了嗎?遷徙自由。遷徙自由嗎?是。所以現在六都是不是有很多的原住民同胞在裡面居住?是。"},{"start":203.965,"end":208.559,"text":"請問居住在六都裡面的原住民朋友,他到底是三地原住民還是平地原住民?"},{"start":209.83,"end":236.982,"text":"在沒有選舉的時候會有區分嗎?或者坐高鐵的時候要區分買票嗎?並沒有。有沒有去登記戶籍的時候要區分來計算嗎?依目前來講,三元片大概在選舉的時候才有參選。對,而且是在選立法委員的時候對不對?所以可不可以說,為了保障居住在我們六都或者非山地鄉的這些原住民的參政權,他的參與地方民意機關的名額的設計,"},{"start":239.07,"end":260.203,"text":"他不受到憲法正六條文三元跟平元的規範?據述有沒有這樣的要求?並沒有,不過如果提升他的參政權我們都樂觀其成。好,當然我也是認為要保障在不管居住在哪裡原住民同胞的參政權。你知道我們屏東縣,來我請一下中選會,處長。你知道我們目前屏東縣的縣議會有幾席嗎?"},{"start":262.711,"end":267.094,"text":"目前目前目前目前目前目前目前目前目前目前"},{"start":292.768,"end":307.822,"text":"他是併在一起計算的。好,那我要說的一個就是說,其實目前我們看到各個版本關於地質法各個版本,其實有很多的計算方式,但是我發現過去我們在地質法的設計的時候,有一點過頭的去沿用了"},{"start":311.085,"end":334.642,"text":"憲法正規條文當中對於原住民行使中央民意機關參政權的山園跟平原的規定也在六都當中的人口居住人口當中去創設了山園跟平原而且只有針對平原的部分已以名額的特殊規定的計算山園並沒有那我要說的啦山園跟平原本來就存在於立法委員的選舉"},{"start":335.723,"end":340.68,"text":"地方民意機關,不管你是督還是非督,並沒有這樣的區分。」是不是?"},{"start":342.264,"end":365.984,"text":"我們有這樣的區分嗎?我剛剛就問過了嘛。難道說你在投立法委的時候在山原、在平原,會限制你住在都還是非都?住在山地下還是非山地下?有沒有?這部分是沒有。沒有嘛。所以為了充分保障每一個都或非都地方政府的自治,應該以當地人口當中,我們就區分成原住民族跟非原住民族,來保障原住民族的席次計算,你認為這樣適不妥適?"},{"start":370.255,"end":374.83,"text":"無好回答還是這是你們希望我們本會解決的?本願解決的?"},{"start":376.951,"end":383.515,"text":"我認為在目前的版本當中,有的版本還沒有去思考到其實保障原住民同胞的參政權在都與非都、在地方議會的選舉當中其實是沒有做區分分別計算的必要"},{"start":402.421,"end":405.83,"text":"但是同此時間因為它的額數的計算會牽動到地制法當中對於該縣市"},{"start":412.203,"end":436.75,"text":"議會名額計算,以屏東縣為例,你八十萬是包含已記錄原住民同胞選民為主,從八十萬到不到八十萬就差了十二席。但是如果我們把原住民族的參政權把它區分開來,我們把屏東縣的八十萬不到八十萬人口七十八萬區分成原住民跟非原住民,那這樣算起來,屏東縣的非原住民的議會席是可以幾席?"},{"start":439.4,"end":454.848,"text":"有沒有大概出算過?我聽說大概只有少了五席,大概是49席到50席,大概是不是這樣?對,如果假設是,這跟他外交一樣,他會少五席又會換掉。因為目前這版本有外交有內涵,不是只有影響到原住民族選民的參選權利,"},{"start":456.331,"end":482.364,"text":"也影響到非原住民同樣居住在同一縣市的其他選民參與參選的席次的計算元額。是不是這樣?所以我在這裡本席謝謝主席給本席這樣的時間我希望我們未來在討論地制法這個議題的時候我強烈的支持保障我們原住民朋友在地方政府、地方議會的參政權包括他的席次名額應該單獨計算"},{"start":484.545,"end":509.173,"text":"但是沒有受到憲法正確三元和平元區分的必要。第二、在計算名額的同時,也要兼顧到該縣市居住的非原住民人口在計算之下預期的消長的變化,為妥善的規劃。請問這樣的內容,市長你能承諾給我們一個射算的結果嗎?我們會把射算的結果提出來。"},{"start":511.182,"end":530.254,"text":"這個很快,我們一天兩天還是下個星期?我們下個星期就可以好,那我就跟拜託主席做個裁示希望內政部盡快的把這樣的設算的一個可能的方向給我們本院也提供一個本委員會來參考以作為後續各個版本修法的時候的參酌,可以嗎?"},{"start":532.248,"end":554.455,"text":"因為委員還有其他沒有提這樣的版本那今天我們修的版本就是由高金素的委員但是我們今天就要排審我的版本還有鄭天財委員一定徵兇條文這五立法委員但是你剛剛說的是平原三原這個部分因為我們今天是只有三原的部分好不好"},{"start":556.305,"end":556.406,"text":"審查委員"}]}},{"id":"151461","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151461","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445342fa6158b001c688f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94a26d91266f61260a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:47:44 - 11:52:44","影片長度":"00:05:00","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":300,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:52:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:47:44+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":783,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時47分）謝謝主席，我請內政部吳次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長好。今天我們討論地方制度法的調整，其中有一個部分和地方自治團體有關係。其實我在去年就開始幫很多地方議員的助理發聲，他們為地方議員的服務或協助問政都非常辛苦，但是我們常常在講全臺灣有低薪的問題，地方議員的助理因為這個制度、這個法令一直沒有做調整，導致長達24年都沒有辦法調薪。軍公教每年隨著物價而做調整，可是地方議員的助理長達24年沒有調薪，這件事情在這一屆新的立法院開議後，包含在臺北市議會的部分是整個跨黨派的議員，是完全跨黨派的議員，包含民進黨、國民黨、民眾黨，甚至無黨籍的議員全部都到立法院請託，拜託韓院長還有跨黨派的委員能夠支持修法。現在立法院裡面可以看到這麼多委員都已經提案，也是一樣完全的跨黨派，它沒有黨派之爭，也就是大家都意識到，很多委員包含我自己原來也是地方的議員，我們都支持，助理24年沒有調薪，對他們來講真的是非常不公平。但是非常可惜的是內政部一直用各種理由推託，甚至前不久還透過特定媒體放話說這是一個錢坑法案，我不大能理解，這裡面這麼多立法委員、跨黨派立委，比如吳思瑤委員還是執政黨民進黨籍的幹部，怎麼會說跨黨派的委員大家一起都來做一個錢坑法案？其實我們是要調整一個長期不合理的制度，次長，在立法院裡面已經有這麼多的案子提出來了，內政部針對地方議員助理薪水調整的看法是什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：我想這個案子大概是所有各黨各派最有共識的一個案子。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯，大家一致同意。"],["吳次長容輝：是，我想24年沒有調整的確有討論空間，至於怎麼調、調的幅度有多少、調的項目怎麼調，我想大家必須還要有共識。"],["王委員鴻薇：可以討論嘛。"],["吳次長容輝：可以討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：不能因為它會增加地方的支出，我們承認會增加地方支出，可是不能因為這樣而讓助理都一直不能調薪，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：內政部事實上是可以支持讓這個法案能夠在立法院做充分的討論，比如我也有提出法案，但就如同次長所說的調的方式，比如助理的人數、上限，包含調整的幅度、金額，其實大家都可以做討論，我沒有細看其他人的調整方案是什麼，但是這個事實上是可以討論的，內政部可以支持，是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：我們可以來討論，因為這幾個方面有很多方案，項目也不一樣，這個可以討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，這是最好的。事實上，去年我也同樣在這個地方做質詢，當時內政部是對我打太極拳，一副不大想碰這個案子的樣子。我希望這個案子最好能夠在這個會期，不然的話在今年能夠有一個具體的進展，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：非常謝謝鴻薇的質詢。請次長回去之後把各委員提的版本做一個討論、看法，本席辦公室會請你們到我的辦公室做一些說明，好不好？"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：繼續我們請羅智強、羅智強，羅智強委員不在。","張嘉郡、張嘉郡、張嘉郡委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯委員不在。","林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在。","沈發惠委員、沈發惠、沈發惠委員不在。","羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在。","現在請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.7772187500000003,"end":6.544718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.679718750000001,"end":7.759718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.62034375,"end":9.869093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.04221875,"end":9.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.649093750000002,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.087843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.25659375,"end":15.454718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.707843750000002,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.28659375,"end":39.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.33284375,"end":42.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.06221875,"end":47.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.90534375,"end":51.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.81596875,"end":74.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.95596875000001,"end":81.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.46534375,"end":89.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.82284375,"end":91.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.67909375,"end":94.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.81784375000001,"end":107.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.36846875,"end":136.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.22471875000002,"end":157.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.40721875,"end":158.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.87534375,"end":164.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.52409375000002,"end":168.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.76409375,"end":184.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.18784375,"end":197.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.61596875,"end":204.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.34096875,"end":203.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.06221875,"end":206.78346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.43346875,"end":205.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.78346875000003,"end":219.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.45659375000002,"end":220.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.09784375,"end":221.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.85721875000002,"end":234.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.88909375,"end":233.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.45846875,"end":234.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.93096875,"end":267.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.47909375,"end":264.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.09471875,"end":273.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.27596875,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.20346875,"end":295.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.09034375000005,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.44471875,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.65534375000004,"end":300.35534375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.063,"end":4.244,"text":"審查委員吳次長"},{"start":14.346,"end":36.971,"text":"好 次長好就是今天我們討論我們的地方制度法的一個調整那其中有一個部分其實也跟那個我們的地方的自治團體有關係就是其實我在去年就開始幫我們很多地方議員的助理來發聲那麼我們在我們的地方議員"},{"start":43.172,"end":47.162,"text":"即使他們的服務或者他們協助問政也非常非常辛苦但是我們常常在講全台灣有低薪的問題"},{"start":52.847,"end":72.499,"text":"而我們的地方議員的助理因為這個制度因為法令一直都沒有做調整有長達24年都沒有辦法調薪啊比如說像軍公教他每一年我們還隨著這個物價而做調整可是呢我們地方議員的助理是長達24年沒有調薪"},{"start":75.04,"end":84.265,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":91.769,"end":107.581,"text":"包含國民黨、民眾黨甚至無黨籍的議員全部都到立法院來請託拜託韓院長還有拜託我們跨黨派的委員能夠支持修法"},{"start":108.422,"end":136.542,"text":"那麼現在在我們的立法院裡面其實可以看到這麼多的委員都已經提案也是一樣完全的跨黨派他沒有黨派之爭也就是大家都意識到因為我們很多的委員包含我自己都來自於我們原來也是地方的議員那麼我們都支持對於助理24年沒有調薪對他們來講真的是不公平的"},{"start":137.342,"end":164.234,"text":"但是非常可惜的是我們內政部一直用各種的理由推脫甚至前不久還透過特定媒體來做放話說這是一個錢坑法案我不大能夠理解因為包括你可以看到這裡面這麼多的這個立法委員跨黨派立委這裡面比如說像吳思耀委員他還是"},{"start":165.835,"end":190.015,"text":"還是執政黨民進黨籍的幹部所以怎麼會說我們跨黨派的委員大家一起說來做一個乾肯法案其實我們是要去調整一個長期不合理的制度所以在這邊想請教次長當立法院裡面已經有這麼多的案子都已經提出來了"},{"start":190.996,"end":210.032,"text":"那麼,我們內政部針對地方議員助理的調整,我們的看法是什麼?報告委員,我想這一個案子大概是所有各黨各派最有共識的一個案子。大家一致同意?是。我想這個24年沒有去調整的確有討論空間了。那至於怎麼調?"},{"start":214.756,"end":233.737,"text":"條的幅度有多少?條的項目怎麼調?我想這個大家必須要還有共識。可以討論嘛,可是不能因為他會增加地方的支出,也確實我們承認會減掉地方支出,可是不能因為這樣子而讓這些助理都一直都不能調薪嘛,對不對?是。"},{"start":235.218,"end":256.011,"text":"所以內政部事實上是可以支持讓這個法案能夠在立法院做充分的討論比如說我也有提出法案但是呢就如同那個次長所說的你的調的方式比如講你的這個助理的人數你的上限包含你的調整的幅度"},{"start":256.511,"end":271.576,"text":"金額其實大家都可以做討論因為有許我沒有去細看其他人的條的方案是什麼但是呢這個事實上是可以做討論所以內政部可以支持是不是我們可以來討論因為有很多方案而且項目也不一樣那這個可以討論"},{"start":273.517,"end":296.151,"text":"大致最好的我這個大概是我到現在為止因為事實上我去年也同樣在這個地方也做質詢當時內政部事實上是幫我打太極拳的好然後就是一副不大想去碰這個案子所以我希望這個案子能夠最好能夠在我們這個會期不然的話也能夠在今年能夠有一個具體的一個進展好不好是好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好非常謝謝宏偉的質詢謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151460","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151460","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4455f1ada2f5d1112078f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94e00fe85888996f755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"11:43:10 - 11:47:36","影片長度":"00:04:26","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":266,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:47:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:43:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":766,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（11時43分）好，謝謝召委。請內政部吳次長。"],["主席：請內政部吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：次長好。今天我們討論的是地方制度法修正草案。我們縣市議員席次是以總人口來設算，現在我們所關心的是平地原住民還有山地原住民他們所受保障的席次，平地原住民議員的名額所占的席次與非原住民區域議員的名額。本席今天關心的是原住民議員的席次與非原住民議員席次的比例，未來有做調整會不會影響到我們區域議員的席次？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，如果是外加，不會影響。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，不會影響，大致上我們還是很支持我們原住民，只要不涉及排擠到非原住民的席次，我們大致上還是樂觀其成。","本席在這邊也請教次長，本席過去所關心的是全國村里長，村里長在各項災害發生時，他們都在第一線，包含過去的疫情。村里長真的很辛苦，事務費調升到50,000塊，調升了5,000塊，但他們的比例還是有點懸殊，公務人員都有1.5倍的年終獎金，次長，針對這次我提案的增加1.5倍的年終獎金，你的看法是如何？"],["吳次長容輝：我剛剛特別提到村里長的這一部分，因為他在最基層，有很多委員也都相當關心村里長的春節慰問金或事務費是不是應該提高，我想這個大家可以討論，因為這個涉及的不是只有要不要提高，涉及到後面財源的問題也是一項。另外就是村里長的部分和縣市議員的部分是不是應該同時討論或分開討論，我們的立場是開放大家一起來討論。"],["吳委員琪銘：開放大家一起討論，那次長的立場是支持了。"],["吳次長容輝：村里長事務費從45,000調到50,000，現在要再調……"],["吳委員琪銘：現在不是調，是我們的年終慰問金。"],["吳次長容輝：年終慰問金要加的部分，加的部分，我想我們討論的方向是朝正面的方向去討論。"],["吳委員琪銘：正面的方向，希望我們都能來推動，因為村里長不管在任何情況，包含這次的地震也好，包含過去的疫情也好，他們都站在第一線，他們是挺辛苦的，我們還是會繼續推動，拜託次長支持，還有拜託與會的立法委員大家都能共同支持。","本席要感謝活動中心的補助已經確定列案，在土城包含公所、包含幾個活動中心的一些修繕，對於內政部民政司的補助，我也再次利用這個機會感謝次長、感謝民政司所有工作同仁。我就針對這個問題來補充、來感謝。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘召委的質詢，謝謝次長。","請王委員鴻薇質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.7772187500000003,"end":5.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.71784375,"end":9.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.552218750000002,"end":13.058468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.294718750000001,"end":61.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.384093750000005,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.97034375000001,"end":64.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.00409375000001,"end":66.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.78846875,"end":68.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.88096875000001,"end":116.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.99159375,"end":130.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.23409375,"end":131.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.25096875,"end":169.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.60784375,"end":169.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.43471875,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.04221875000002,"end":176.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.81346875,"end":176.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.84721875000002,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.83721875,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.96346875,"end":189.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.06471875000003,"end":189.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.73971875,"end":189.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.75659375,"end":189.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.97596875000002,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.02659375000002,"end":192.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.57909375,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.65909375,"end":197.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.91159375,"end":196.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.01284375,"end":197.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.31659375,"end":198.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.35034375,"end":197.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.07596875000002,"end":198.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.21096875,"end":198.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.34596875000003,"end":260.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.81721875000002,"end":207.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.82534375,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.85346875000002,"end":218.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.20534375,"end":262.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.99846875000003,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.90534375000004,"end":265.64346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.074,"end":4.554,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13.579,"end":32.67,"text":"市長今天我們針對討論的地方制度法的修正草案那我們的縣市的席次總人口是射算的總額那包含我們現在說關心的就是我們的平地原住民還有山地原住民他們所保障的席次"},{"start":34.071,"end":61.418,"text":"那平地原住民的議員的名額所剩的席次與非原住民的7億的議員的名額那本席今天所關心的我們原住民的席次他們的席次以及非原住民的席次的比例那未來有做調整會不會影響到我們7億的議員的席次"},{"start":62.899,"end":65.722,"text":"法務委員,如果是外加,不會影響。"},{"start":73.908,"end":96.969,"text":"不涉及排擠到我們會員住民的席次,我們大致上還是樂觀其成。本席在這邊請教我們的次長。本席過去所關心的就是我們全國的村里長。村里長他們包含在各項的災害的發生,他們都在第一線,包含我們過去的疫情。"},{"start":97.609,"end":101.57,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":117.045,"end":137.357,"text":"一連五倍的連中獎金。那是不是次長,針對我這一次所提案的增加1.5倍的連中獎金,你的看法是如何?報告委員,我想我剛剛特別提到村議長的這一部分,的確因為他在最基層。"},{"start":138.317,"end":161.65,"text":"那有很多的我們的委員都相當關心村里長的這個春節慰問金或者他的事務費那是不是應該要提高那我想這個大家可以去討論因為這個涉及到不是只有說他要不要提高涉及到後面財源的問題也是一項那另外就是說村里長的部分跟縣市議員的部分"},{"start":163.011,"end":165.573,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":192.754,"end":221.276,"text":"那下一部分這個我想我們討論方向這個朝正面的方向去討論可以正面的方向嘛好那希望我們都能來推動因為村里長不管在任何包含我們這次的地震也好包含過去的疫情也好他們都站在第一線上面是挺辛苦的那我們還是會繼續來推動那也拜託我們次長這邊的支持啦還有拜託議會我們的立法委員大家都能共同來支持"},{"start":222.017,"end":250.163,"text":"那針對本席首先也要感謝我們那個活動中心的補助已經確定了列案在土城包含公所包含我們幾個活動中心一些修繕在我們的內政部我們的民政司這邊的補助這邊我也再次借用這個機會來感謝我們次長感謝我們的民政司我們所有工作同仁"},{"start":250.763,"end":250.783,"text":"案 。"}]}},{"id":"151459","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151459","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44578824e6d5590ef3a8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94005dafe6a1b373055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"11:37:03 - 11:43:02","影片長度":"00:05:59","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":359,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:43:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:37:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":747,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（11時37分）請部長。"],["主席：有請次長，今天是吳次長，部長今天跟我請假。"],["吳委員宗憲：沒問題，次長好！"],["吳次長容輝：委員好！"],["吳委員宗憲：次長好！我們2025年會進入超高齡社會，我想要討論的是老年人租屋的問題，其實我之前在新北市政府服務的時候就一直在關注這個問題，目前臺灣社會對於老人租屋這一塊著力不深，導致大家在年輕的時候拚命的想要買房子，因為老了可能租不到房子，如果沒有小孩，或是小孩沒有辦法提供你住的地方，你要在外面租房子是有困難的。我手邊有崔媽媽基金會的統計資料，只有9%的房東願意接受弱勢者，在這9%裡面又只剩下5%願意接受高齡，所以大概只有萬分之四十五的比例願意出租給獨居的老人，當然，原因很多，所以我現在想要請教的就是，次長，你知不知道，在租屋網站上如果房東載明不租給45歲以上或是要求老夫妻租屋後只要有一人過世就要搬家，請教這個契約的這個約定有沒有違法？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我是不是先請國土署回應你？"],["吳委員宗憲：速度快一點。"],["主席：國土署，謝謝。"],["張簡任正工程司瓊月：租屋的部分，如果違反定型化契約就是無效，承租人可以主張這個契約違反相關的規定。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，你是不是講錯了？什麼叫「違反定型化契約就叫無效」？定型化契約只是一個法律名詞，你不能這樣亂用，違反強制規定無效，這一點我可以接受，你剛剛可能講錯了。"],["張簡任正工程司瓊月：對，不好意思。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係，我剛剛一頭霧水。我直接跟你們講答案好了，目前在我國契約自由原則之下，除非是違反公序良俗、強制或禁止的規定，其餘都是有效，也就是說，如果房子不願意租給老人家，這是沒有違法的。我們換個角度來說，因為我們國家並沒有很強力的像日本一樣介入老人租屋這一塊，讓老人能夠租到房子，所以導致有非常多的老人在年紀大了之後，他可能是孤獨老人，沒有小孩，結果他根本租不到房子，最後他只能住到城市的最邊緣、環境更差的地方，結果導致在這種地方住久了身體可能更不好，身體能好才是見鬼了。我想請教一下，目前對於社會住宅的部分，因為老人還必須跟其他弱勢團體爭社會住宅的排序，請問一下對於這些老人有沒有一個不一樣的輪候積分的機制？"],["張簡任正工程司瓊月：目前他們是住宅法經濟或社會弱勢的對象之一，這部分要看各地方政府針對65歲以上老人有沒有特別加分，有的部分是會將他們的分數積分的評點分數比較高。"],["吳委員宗憲：我想麻煩你們研議一下對老人是不是要有不一樣的做法，就像我一開始講的，2025年我們會邁入超高齡社會，社會上對於老人的保障是不是不足，請你們在一個月內稍微研議一下在排序積分方面是不是要有所改變，我一直覺得也佩服內政部是一個大部，小時候我們唸書都唸過禮記的禮運篇：「不獨親其親，不獨子其子，使老有所終、壯有所用、幼有所養，鰥寡孤獨廢疾者皆有所養。」所以對於這些人老有所養，死有所送，我想內政部不能規避這個責任。我們要把目光注意在小朋友之外還要思考對越來越多的老年人有沒有給予足夠的保障？臺灣自有房屋率這麼高，有一個很大的原因是大家怕老了以後沒有房子可以住，我家人也是擔心這個點所以年輕時拚命要買房子，導致房價拚命的往上漲，這也是一個原因。內政部是不是應該要介入老人租屋這一塊，像日本一樣國家的力量介入，讓房東在出租房子時必須負起一些社會責任，你賺這個社會人的錢就要負起一點社會責任，不能在租屋契約裡面限制一大堆，不租給老人，該裁罰就裁罰、該介入就介入。對於社會住宅的排序也要注意一下老人年齡的保障，年紀大了其實有點類似越來越趨於弱勢，經濟也弱勢，身體狀況也不如以前，這也是我們要保障的。我們都會老，有一天我們也需要這些，所以我希望我們一起來努力這一塊，好不好？一個月內能夠給我們修正做法的回復。"],["吳次長容輝：好，謝謝委員，這一部分我們會來檢討，我們會把資料給委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，非常謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢，我們第一次在內政委員會見到，歡迎你來，謝謝，也謝謝吳次長。","繼續請吳琪銘召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.58721875,"end":6.0553437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.494093750000001,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.164718750000002,"end":9.818468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.425968750000003,"end":11.742218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.67909375,"end":10.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.72971875,"end":10.763468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.763468750000001,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.800968750000003,"end":18.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.99846875,"end":23.774093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.297218750000003,"end":31.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.53659375,"end":43.922843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.10846875,"end":51.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.212843750000005,"end":90.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.86471875000001,"end":94.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.34534375000001,"end":94.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.37909375000001,"end":97.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.38284375,"end":111.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.50721875,"end":115.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.70909375000001,"end":118.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.11346875000001,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.17971875,"end":128.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.19221875,"end":143.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.77221875,"end":144.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.49346875,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.15159375000002,"end":163.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.25846875000002,"end":170.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.00846875000002,"end":171.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.03784375,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.12159375000002,"end":176.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.96534375000002,"end":192.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.41409375,"end":206.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.71596875,"end":218.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.08221875,"end":212.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.00971875000002,"end":238.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.82909375000003,"end":240.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.87096875,"end":244.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.12346875000003,"end":246.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.06409375,"end":268.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.95096875,"end":269.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.26721875000004,"end":272.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.30471875,"end":274.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.11471875,"end":279.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.30784375,"end":286.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.58534375,"end":290.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.20909375,"end":292.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.81221875,"end":310.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.23971875,"end":323.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.33471875000004,"end":334.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.54409375,"end":344.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.56784375,"end":349.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.36471875,"end":349.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.44034375,"end":355.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.12721875,"end":356.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.61659375000005,"end":356.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.97096875,"end":357.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.96659375,"end":358.72596875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.694,"end":30.269,"text":"請部長有請我們次長今天是吳次長來部長今天公務請假謝謝次長好委員好市長好那我想我們現在是2025就是進入那個超高齡的社會那我想要來討論的一個是租屋的問題老年人租屋的問題其實這個在我之前在新北市政府服務的時候我就一直在關注這個問題"},{"start":31.59,"end":50.487,"text":"因為目前我們台灣的社會對於老人租屋這一塊其實我覺得著力不深所以導致大家在年輕的時候拼命想要買房子因為老了你可能住不到房子如果沒有小朋友或小朋友沒有辦法提供給你住的地方你在外面你租房子是有困難的"},{"start":51.408,"end":66.255,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":70.197,"end":90.379,"text":"那當然原因有很多啦那所以說我現在想要請教的就是部長你知不知道在租屋網站上面如果房東載您租屋條件不租給45歲以上或是要求老夫妻租屋只要一人過世就要搬家請教您這個契約的約定有沒有違法"},{"start":96.161,"end":118.138,"text":"國土署租的部分如果違反那個我們那個定型化契約的話其實是無效的啦這個部分那所有權人那個陳租人可以主張這個他違反這個契約的相關規定你是不是講錯了什麼叫違反定型化契約就叫無效定型化契約就是一個法律名詞你不能這樣亂用"},{"start":120.151,"end":124.675,"text":"有違反公序良俗或強制禁止的規定都是有效,也就是說如果有房子不願意租給老人家,這是沒有違法的。"},{"start":145.543,"end":148.546,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草"},{"start":164.704,"end":190.217,"text":"他到最後他只能住到城市的最邊緣環境更差的地方就導致在這種地方住久了他身體可能會更不好身體能好那才是見鬼了所以我能請教一下目前對於這個社會住宅的部分因為老人還必須跟其他弱勢團體去爭這個社會住宅的排序那請問一下對於這些老人他有沒有一個不一樣的這個輪候積分的這個機制"},{"start":194.457,"end":222.544,"text":"目前他是我們那個住宅法社會住宅經濟經濟或社會弱勢的一個對象之一啦那這個部分的話要看各地方政府他在針對65歲以上老人有沒有特別的加分那有的部分有的部分是會把他的分數積分的評點分數是比較高我想麻煩你們演繹一下對老人是不是要不一樣的做法"},{"start":223.064,"end":247.453,"text":"因爲就像我剛一開始講2025年我們超高齡社會社會上面對於老人的保障是不是不足請你們在一個月內稍微研議一下在排序積分上面要不要有所改變我一直覺得啦我其實很佩服那個內政部是一個大部那我也小時候我們大家念書念過那個李運的那什麼李記的李運篇他不是有講過嗎"},{"start":248.373,"end":254.259,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":270.302,"end":279.17,"text":"同時注意在保障小朋友之外還要再思考越來越多的老年人我們有沒有給他足夠的保障"},{"start":280.35,"end":306.117,"text":"台灣自有房屋率這麼高有一個很大原因就是大家怕老了以後沒有房子可以住我家人也都是擔心這個點所以年輕的時候拼命要買房子導致房價可能拼命往上漲這也是一個原因所以內政部是不是應該要介入老人租屋這一塊像日本一樣國家的力量介入讓房東你在租房子的時候你必須要負起一些社會責任你賺這個社會人的錢"},{"start":308.257,"end":323.358,"text":"那你要負起一點社會責任你不能說老人家我在租屋企業裡面就給你限制一大堆不租給老人該裁罰就裁罰該介入就介入對於社會住宅的排序也要注意一下老人年齡的保障"},{"start":324.78,"end":346.672,"text":"年紀大了其實有點類似越來越趨於弱勢經濟也弱勢身體狀況也不如以前也是我們要保障的我們都會老嘛那有一天我們也是需要這些所以我希望我們一起來努力這一塊好不好那一個月內能夠給我們一個那個修正做法的回覆好謝謝委員那這一部分我們會來檢討我們會把這個資料給好非常謝謝謝謝"},{"start":350.753,"end":355.32,"text":"好,謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢,謝謝。我們第一次在內政委會見到,歡迎你來。謝謝,也謝謝吳次長。"}]}},{"id":"151458","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151458","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445456240b570a17c1f8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c942aeb4f393fa6d6c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"11:28:21 - 11:36:45","影片長度":"00:08:24","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":504,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:36:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:28:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":708,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（11時28分）主席好！各位官員、各位委員，大家早安！大家好！是不是有請政次。"],["主席：有請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好！"],["張委員智倫：政次早安！今天討論的地制法非常重要，大家都知道地方會選出地方縣市首長、縣市議員，以及各民意代表、鄉鎮市長代表，以及我們的里長。今天在討論地制法的時候，本席個人感覺，地方第一線直接面對民眾的這些里長的權益好像受到忽視，所以本席要先針對存在已久的里長問題，就是他們的定義和權益的問題來跟政次請教，因為從本席的角度，現在內政部好像把里長的工作授予叫做「榮譽職」，他們沒有薪資待遇，只有些許的補助，比如說：健檢的費用和保險費，但是過去在疫情期間，里長就非常辛苦，有些時候更是24小時不停的在工作，可是他們連基本的勞工權益都沒有。","也跟政次報告，現在全臺灣有7,748位村里長，六都超過半數，高達4,168位，請問一下，就政次而言，我們的里長到底是屬於民意代表，還是一般的受薪階層？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，這部分我先請民政司來回答，接著我再來補充。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：村里長的定位，我們認為是村里公務的受託人。"],["張委員智倫：他是公務人員嗎？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：村里公務的受託人，他也是要受鄉鎮市的指揮。"],["張委員智倫：是，你可以再解釋清楚，什麼叫做「受託人」？他到底是公務人員，還是一般的受薪階級？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，基本上，村里長是可以兼職的，他可以兼做他的商業，基本上，他不是公務人員，他沒有辦法像公務人員這樣受到規範。"],["張委員智倫：是，所以要拜託政次，因為包含臺北市和臺中市等很多地方政府都希望中央可以用法令明確的來讓大家知道里長的定位到底是什麼、他們的權利和義務到底是什麼、到底他們有哪些權利，因為現在基層的里長都非常辛苦，他們都有過勞的情形，而且還常常超時工作，沒有拿到任何的補償，地方都怨聲載道，請問這部分中央是不是可以協助地方以法令來明確的定位到底里長的職位是什麼，還有他們有沒有一些像勞動者一樣的補助和津貼？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：有關目前村里長接受了很多部會所委託的工作，我們也收到地方反映說，村里長兼辦各部會交辦的任務太多，所以我們也行文給各部會，對於應該回歸到各部會應做的事項，請儘量減少交付任務給村里長，事實上，這些工作可能一個村里長就要負責……"],["張委員智倫：我簡單的幫全臺灣的村里長請益，村里長有沒有辦法投保勞健保和提撥勞退的退休金？這部分有沒有辦法協助？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：因為村里長不是公務員，所以勞健保這部分還是要回到村里長事務補助費的規定，但是他還是有村里長的保險，目前我們也在……"],["張委員智倫：沒關係，這部分我拜託中央再研議。第二個，三節獎金、年終獎金的部分，有沒有辦法協助村里長？他們這麼辛苦的工作，他們可不可以有三節獎金和年終獎金？一般上班族三節的時候沒有拿到任何獎金，過年的時候，辛苦了一整年卻沒有拿到年終獎金，政次可不可以回答一下，有沒有辦法幫所有辛苦的村里長來做慰問的部分？"],["吳次長容輝：我想很多委員都非常關心村里長的事務費或保險，甚至是所謂的「春節慰問金」，就是年終獎金的部分。"],["張委員智倫：有沒有辦法？中央有沒有辦法趕快研議一下？因為不管是之前因為疫情的三級警戒，以及最近臺灣動不動就停電、地震，村里長都是跑第一線。"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，這部分我們有在討論。"],["張委員智倫：有在討論，所以三節獎金和年終獎金的部分都有在討論是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：就春節慰問金的部分，我們會廣泛的蒐集意見。"],["張委員智倫：在519之前有辦法有一個明確的答案嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：這個要討論的不只我們的部分，還包括縣市政府，因為未來如果有這些項目的話，它的財源地方政府必須要編列，有些縣市政府的財源有限，所以這個部分縣市政府大家必須要有共識。"],["張委員智倫：好，最後一個，這也是我最在意的，村里長都有超時工作，他們有沒有辦法領取加班費？最後，我要特別的強調，我最近一直在提到，過去疫情的時候，很多村里長不只要去送疫情相關的物品、非常的危險，而且他們在第一線時還會接觸到染疫的人，而且最近很多的地震、停電，他們都要跑第一線，有沒有可能給一個叫做「危險津貼」？不然誰願意跑第一線來做這些事情？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，因為所有的村里長都有保險，我們現在甚至已經把500萬元的保額拉高到1,000萬元，所以這部分可以由保險去cover。"],["張委員智倫：好，拜託！剛才提到的三節獎金和年終獎金請儘快研議。我再講一下，剛剛有很多委員提到原住民的選舉，2020年的時候我們有統計，1,653間的投票所只有1張原住民的選票，顧名思義就是大家都會知道他是投給誰，這個不在籍投票的部分你們有沒有研議大概要怎麼做？"],["吳次長容輝：這部分選委會有在研議，現在就秘密投票、就是一個人的部分，現在是採取徵詢後去做集中投開票所的投票。"],["張委員智倫：好，拜託！1,653間投票所要趕快集中，把這個問題解決，不然投票率會變低。","最後一個問題，就這次2024年總統和立委的選舉，本席知道有非常多的警消人員沒有辦法回去投票，請問一下，內政部是不是要研議，為什麼這麼多警消人員在第一線協助執勤時都沒有辦法回去投票？為什麼他們沒有列入不在籍投票的範圍？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，執勤中的員警這部分，因為現在不在籍投票還沒有開始，這部分的解決方式大概就是用排班的方式讓他們去投票。"],["張委員智倫：用排班的話，他們也沒有辦法瞬間買到票，比如：他住在臺中，他也不可能從臺北跑去臺中投票。"],["吳次長容輝：我想警員這部分……"],["張委員智倫：拜託！政次一定要趕快去統計，臺灣是民主自由的法治國家，如果這些警消人員沒有辦法投票的話，他們就會喪失他們的權益，這部分一定要檢討。"],["吳次長容輝：是，這部分希望能夠保障他們的投票權。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，謝謝！謝謝次長。","繼續請陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在。","請吳宗憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.59534375,"end":11.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.742218750000003,"end":12.974093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.602218750000002,"end":62.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.29534375,"end":69.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.29846875,"end":77.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.24659375,"end":101.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.77034375000001,"end":108.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.54971875000001,"end":109.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.93784375000001,"end":113.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.61221875000001,"end":114.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.62909375000001,"end":114.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.64596875000001,"end":114.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.67971875,"end":121.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.69659375,"end":114.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.74721875,"end":114.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.81471875000001,"end":114.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.11346875000001,"end":121.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.27346875,"end":127.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.34846875,"end":128.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.51284375,"end":136.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.82471875000002,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.03096875,"end":135.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.76909375,"end":137.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.33846875,"end":140.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.37596875,"end":142.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.24909375000001,"end":145.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.69596875000002,"end":147.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.58159375,"end":191.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.20346875,"end":229.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.45971875,"end":232.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.65284375000002,"end":238.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.45346875,"end":252.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.81846875000002,"end":260.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.95346875,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.73284375000003,"end":275.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.25784375,"end":281.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.42159375,"end":282.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.73784375,"end":298.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.60909375,"end":309.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.39284375,"end":304.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.10909375,"end":313.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.38721875000005,"end":315.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.27284375,"end":320.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.96409375,"end":323.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.91284375000004,"end":340.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.14659375,"end":342.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.53846875000005,"end":368.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.71596875,"end":372.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.95159375000003,"end":376.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.76534375,"end":381.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.96284375000005,"end":385.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.13534375,"end":407.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.57909375,"end":412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.83221875000004,"end":408.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.19846875,"end":414.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.48096875000005,"end":416.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.70846875,"end":419.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.89784375000005,"end":423.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.61034375,"end":430.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.25471875000005,"end":437.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.35909375000006,"end":454.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.55909375000005,"end":454.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.09471875,"end":457.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.00159375000004,"end":463.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.36346875000004,"end":465.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.52784375000005,"end":469.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.15596875000006,"end":476.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.67784375,"end":479.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.37784375,"end":483.46596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.47034375000004,"end":493.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.28721875,"end":497.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.54846875000004,"end":501.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.49284375,"end":501.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.10034375000004,"end":501.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.72471875,"end":504.64409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.621,"end":32.269,"text":"主席好、各位官員、各位委員、大家早安、大家好。是不是有請鄭次?有請吳次長。我也好。好,鄭次早安。那今天討論這個地制法非常重要。我們大家都知道我們地方會選出我們所有地方縣市首長以及縣市議員以及各位民意代表、鄉鎮市長代表以及我們的里長。"},{"start":33.269,"end":62.555,"text":"今天在討論地制法的時候我本席個人感覺好像我們地方第一線直接面對民眾的這些里長的權益好像有受到忽視所以本席先針對過去存在已久的里長的問題的定義跟權益的問題來跟正式來做請教因為從本席的角度內政部現在好像把里長的工作授予好像叫做榮譽職的部分"},{"start":63.395,"end":88.831,"text":"沒有薪資的待遇只有一些些許的補助比如說像健檢的費用跟保險費尤其大家可以從過去不管是疫情的那陣子里長非常的辛苦有些時候都是24小時不停的在工作可是有些基本的勞工的權益都沒有也跟正式報告"},{"start":89.631,"end":107.383,"text":"現在全臺灣有7748位里長村里長六都超過半數這數字六都超過半數高達4168位請問一下就正式而言我們的里長到底屬於我們的民意代表還是一般的壽星階層"},{"start":115.447,"end":127.136,"text":"村里長的定位我們認為是村里公務的一個受託人他是公務人員嗎村里公務的受託人他是要受鄉鎮市的一個指揮"},{"start":128.437,"end":147.154,"text":"所以你可以再解釋清楚什麼叫做受託人?他是到底算是公務人員還是算是一般的壽星階級?因為基本上村議長他是可以兼職的他可以兼做他的商業所以基本上他不是公務人員他沒辦法像公務人員這樣受到規範"},{"start":149.393,"end":165.508,"text":"所以要跟政事這邊拜託因為包含臺北市、台中市很多地方政府都希望中央可以以法令來明確讓大家知道里長的地位到底是什麼權利義務到底是什麼"},{"start":165.888,"end":190.855,"text":"到底有哪一些的權利?因為現在其實一般的機車里長非常的辛苦都有過勞的一個情況而且常常過超時工作沒有拿到任何的補償地方都是怨聲載道請問中央的這部分是不是可以來協助地方來做明確的法令的一些定位?到底里長的職位是什麼?他們有沒有一些比如像勞動者一樣的一些的補助跟津貼?"},{"start":192.604,"end":221.759,"text":"有關村里村里長目前很多接受了很多各部會這個委託的這些工作那我們也接受到地方反映說村里長所要兼的各部會交辦的任務實在太多所以我們也詢問給各個部會對於各個部會回到他們應該做的事項的部分盡量減少這個村里長要去做的這些任務事實上這些工作"},{"start":222.279,"end":227.504,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草"},{"start":239.677,"end":259.485,"text":"因為村里長他不是公務員,所以姚建寶的這個部分還是回到村里長輸補助費的一個規定,他還是可以這個有村里長的一個保險。好,沒關係,那這個部分我拜託中央再來研議。那第二個,三節獎金、年終獎金的部分有沒有辦法幫村里長來協助?"},{"start":260.945,"end":274.219,"text":"讓他們在那麼辛苦的工作下三節獎金跟年終獎金這一般來講一般我們上班人沒有拿到三節的時候沒有拿到任何獎金過年的時候那麼辛苦一整年沒有拿到年終獎金這邊是不是"},{"start":276.348,"end":300.723,"text":"正式的部分可以來回答一下有沒有辦法幫所有辛苦的村里長來做一個慰問的部分我想很多的委員大概都非常關心我們村里長的這一個不管事務會的部分或者是保險或甚至於所謂的春節慰問金的部分有沒有辦法有沒有辦法中央趕快來研議一下因為真的不管是"},{"start":301.704,"end":303.925,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員"},{"start":324.353,"end":342.575,"text":"這個大概要去討論的不只是我們的部分還有包括縣市政府因為這些未來如果有這些項目的話那他的裁員都是地方政府必須要去編列那他有些縣市政府的裁員是有限的所以這個必須要縣市政府大家要這個共識那最後一個我最在意的就是"},{"start":343.616,"end":367.576,"text":"村里長都有過時的一個加班費有沒有辦法領救加班費第二個然後最後我要特別強調最近一直在提到過去不及疫情的時候很多村里長要去送這些疫情的相關的物品非常的危險而且第一線有時候都會接觸到這些染疫的人而且最近很多的這個地震停電他們都跑第一線有沒有可能給一個叫做危險的津貼"},{"start":368.777,"end":385.122,"text":"不然他誰願意第一線跑到第一線去來做這些事情?因為這一部分我們所有村里長都有保險甚至我們現在保險已經把這個保額五百萬都拉到一千萬了所以我想這一部分是有保險可以去cover"},{"start":385.202,"end":413.92,"text":"好,所以拜託再盡快來去演繹剛剛講到三級的獎金年終獎金的部分那我再講一下剛剛很多的委員有提到說我們原住民的這個選舉的部分有總共我們有統計2020年的時候統計1,253間投票所裡面只有一張原住民的選票顧名思義就是會有這個選票這個大家會知道說到底他是投誰那這個不在籍投票的部分你們有沒有演繹大概要怎麼做"},{"start":415.021,"end":430.139,"text":"這一部分先會會有在演繹那現在就那個秘密投票一個人的部分那現在採取都是徵選以後去做集中投票後的投票那拜託1653間投票所要趕快來集中把這個問題解決不然的話投票率會變低最後一個問題"},{"start":431.36,"end":454.181,"text":"就這次2024的總統跟立委選舉本席就知道非常多的警消人員沒辦法回去投票請問一下內政部這邊是不是要來研議為什麼那麼多警消人員他在第一線在協助執勤的時候為什麼都沒辦法回去投票為什麼他們沒有列入在不再一起投票或是不再當這個不再投票的範圍"},{"start":456.524,"end":475.514,"text":"報告委員這一部分執行中的這個員警的部分當然我們現在因為不再計投票還沒有開始那我們這一部分大概解決方式大概用排班的方式來解決他沒有排班的話他也沒有辦法瞬間買到票比如他住台中他也不可能台北的跑去台中投票"},{"start":477.731,"end":487.678,"text":"臺灣是民主的自由法治國家,因為這些警消的人他們沒有辦法去投票的話,其實會喪失他們的權益啊。所以這次一定要來檢討。好,謝謝。好,謝謝張志倫委員的質詢。"}]}},{"id":"151457","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151457","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453b035a476e2c179a8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c942b651861cc72ae2f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"11:21:01 - 11:28:16","影片長度":"00:07:15","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":435,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:28:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:21:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":685,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時21分）主席、各位委員，有請次長。"],["主席：有請吳次長，謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有鍾副主委。"],["主席：還有鍾副主委。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好！"],["鍾副主任委員興華：委員好！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：2位好！山地原住民和平地原住民的劃分已經行之有年，而且是憲法明定，所以當初本席在原民會擔任企劃處處長，草擬原住民身分法的時候，就是因為憲法還留著山地原住民和平地原住民的規定，所以在制定原住民身分法時，還是必須要有山地原住民和平地原住民，所以這個部分已經涉及到憲法的層次，這是第一個。","第二個，今天我們談地方制度法第三十三條，本席要特別跟內政部和原民會講，尤其是原民會，原住民的參政權，包括其他原住民族的權益，原民會的公務人員都要主動。我們看一下民國98年的條文跟現行的條文，民國98年的條文是「直轄市有原住民人口在四千人以上者，於前項總額內應由原住民選出直轄市議員」，這裡沒有分山山、平山，而且是要在總額之內。在馬英九執政的時候，他為了要因應他所提出的五都政策，所以要修地方制度法，本席那個時候不是副主委，民國97年、98年的時候，本席已經降調為技監，但是本席還是親自的跟章仁香主任委員報告，是不是可以利用這樣的機會，因為都已經要成立直轄市了，這會涉及到臺中縣市、臺南縣市和高雄縣市的合併，所以以我們要怎麼樣因應才能讓原住民的參政權不要受到影響？所以本席有提出修正條文給章仁香主任委員，後來他指派我去參加內政部的會議。","我在參加會議之前，我有先跟當時的內政部次長、林中森次長溝通、協調，他支持按照現在的條文，現在的條文就是有分山原和平原，這樣才能夠保障原住民的權利，因為臺南縣市、臺中縣市和高雄縣市本來有分，不去處理的話，名額絕對會減少，所以做了這樣一個決定，而且人數也從4,000人改為各2,000人，而且這個人數還比縣議員規定的人數高了一點，縣議員是1,500人，因為這也符合，所以當初內政部就接受了，而且為了避免影響到直轄市區域議員的名額，所以也不規定在總額之內，不會影響到區域議員。對這部分原民會有很大的責任，因為就內政部和內政部的官員來講，這件事情沒有那麼的重大，但是對原住民而言是很重大的，所以原民會要主動的去溝通和協調，然後把這個方向抓住、抓好。","這個法案今天不是第一次審查，上一屆我們也有審查過，不過很可惜沒有通過，所以在這樣的情況下，像地方立法機關組織準則，對於直轄市的部分，只要不影響到區域的名額，其他區域議員或立委也不會反對，所以這個部分本席提出將縣市議員的總額拿掉，原來的條文有規定於縣市議員的總額內，我們把於總額內拿掉，然後針對山地原住民的部分看要怎麼保障，包括山地鄉以外的鄉鎮市，只要有山地原住民人口的鄉鎮市民代表就要有山地原住民的名額，要這樣因應。","縣議員的部分，包括縣轄市的部分，像新竹市、彰化縣，目前有幾個超過1,500人？鍾副主委知道嗎？縣跟縣轄市？像新竹市就有超過嘛！"],["鍾副主任委員興華：新竹市有超過。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有呢？像彰化縣？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：彰化縣。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有呢？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：基隆。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：基隆嘛！對不對？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們不要影響到區域的名額，所以這個部分，你要用很具體的方向向所有的立法委員說明，這樣他們就會支持、不會產生疑慮，他們質詢的時候一直在談那個疑慮，對不對？所以要把它說清楚，何況本席的條文都有考量到這些，所以這個部分，原民會要加強和加油，好不好？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是，謝謝委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：以上，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝鄭天財委員，我再特別強調，我們並沒有影響到現行一般區域議員的總額，而是外加的，所以並不會影響到目前區域議員的席次，這點要特別強調，謝謝。","繼續請張智倫委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.965968750000002,"end":14.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.800968750000003,"end":14.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.89784375,"end":15.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.19721875,"end":17.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.53846875,"end":19.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.75346875,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.770343750000002,"end":22.559093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.96409375,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.47034375,"end":29.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.64659375,"end":31.215968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.80659375,"end":32.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.37596875,"end":35.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.62034375,"end":36.447218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.10534375,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.01221875,"end":41.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.59409375,"end":45.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.84221875,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.72346875,"end":52.259093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.96784375,"end":57.338468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.148468750000006,"end":58.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.329718750000005,"end":71.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.28971875,"end":72.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.36971875,"end":75.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.00221875000001,"end":77.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.92596875000001,"end":78.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.47409375000001,"end":81.73971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.53284375000001,"end":83.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.78159375,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.05971875,"end":87.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.82721875,"end":90.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.81846875000001,"end":93.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.66159375000001,"end":98.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.82971875000001,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.89221875000001,"end":106.14096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.76534375,"end":113.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.88659375,"end":117.10971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.66659375,"end":119.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.24846875,"end":122.39159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.94409375000001,"end":124.36596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.77096875000001,"end":125.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.93096875,"end":127.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.48346875000001,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":130.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.13284375,"end":132.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.05659375000002,"end":135.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.85784375,"end":137.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.38909375,"end":143.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.50221875,"end":145.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.71284375000002,"end":146.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.63659375,"end":148.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.69534375,"end":153.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.77909375000002,"end":154.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.23034375,"end":155.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.27659375000002,"end":157.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.41971875000002,"end":160.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.74846875,"end":161.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.77346875,"end":164.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.27096875,"end":166.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.75159375,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.81034375000002,"end":173.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.88971875000001,"end":175.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.78409375,"end":178.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.85534375,"end":179.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.23909375000002,"end":180.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.90971875000002,"end":184.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.87971875000002,"end":185.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.36471875,"end":190.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.63409375,"end":192.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.50721875000002,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.08909375000002,"end":195.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.47284375,"end":198.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.40909375,"end":200.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.68721875,"end":203.42534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.83034375000003,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.73659375000003,"end":210.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.34409375,"end":212.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.99346875,"end":214.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.65534375000001,"end":217.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.39346875,"end":219.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.45221875000001,"end":222.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.96659375000002,"end":223.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.35034375,"end":225.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.85221875000002,"end":226.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.84346875000003,"end":229.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.47596875000002,"end":230.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.38721875000002,"end":232.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.61909375000002,"end":233.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.34034375000002,"end":235.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.29784375000003,"end":238.40721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.69409375,"end":239.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.49971875000003,"end":242.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.52034375000002,"end":246.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.69284375,"end":249.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.00034375,"end":251.06346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.78909375,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.08409375000002,"end":256.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.64471875000004,"end":259.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.34909375,"end":262.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.92659375,"end":263.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.10784375000003,"end":264.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.93471875,"end":268.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.03534375000004,"end":272.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.42284375,"end":276.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.23659375,"end":278.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.83971875000003,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.32034375,"end":282.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.48471875,"end":291.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.52971875000003,"end":294.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.03971875,"end":299.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.51159375000003,"end":307.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.94471875,"end":310.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.18909375000004,"end":311.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.58971875000003,"end":314.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.00284375,"end":317.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.19221875,"end":319.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.58846875,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.39784375,"end":329.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.80221875,"end":330.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.24096875000004,"end":330.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.32096875,"end":332.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.58659375,"end":343.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.98971875,"end":345.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.76596875,"end":346.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.60971875,"end":347.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.02721875000003,"end":348.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.41096875,"end":351.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.38096875,"end":353.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.15284375000005,"end":356.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.61221875,"end":362.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.90221875000003,"end":367.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.05784375,"end":369.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.76221875000005,"end":370.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.40346875,"end":371.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.61846875000003,"end":373.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.35659375,"end":374.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.14534375000005,"end":375.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.12409375000004,"end":376.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.52909375,"end":377.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.69346875,"end":378.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.73971875,"end":381.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.89534375000005,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.05971875,"end":383.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.40971875,"end":388.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.92784375,"end":390.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.63221875000005,"end":393.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.40409375,"end":395.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.66534375000003,"end":397.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.50034375,"end":398.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.20909375,"end":401.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.87534375,"end":404.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.55409375000005,"end":409.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.54909375000005,"end":411.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.74721875,"end":413.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.52346875,"end":412.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.61596875000004,"end":420.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.19721875000005,"end":424.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.92659375000005,"end":433.81971875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.207,"end":37.677,"text":"主席、國務委員、有請次長、還有中副主委。兩位好。三地原住民、平地原住民的劃分已經行之有年,而且是憲法明定。所以當初,"},{"start":39.279,"end":51.186,"text":"當初本席在擔任處長計劃處的嚴明會的企劃處處長草擬這個原住民身份法的時候就是因為憲法"},{"start":53.238,"end":81.115,"text":"還留著山地原住民跟平地原住民的規定所以在制定原住民身份法的時候必須還是有山地原住民跟平地原住民所以這個部分已經涉及到憲法的層次這是第一個第二個今天我們談地方制度法三十三條本期要特別跟這個"},{"start":82.551,"end":105.789,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。四、審查委"},{"start":107.343,"end":134.889,"text":"直轄市有原住民人口在四千人以上的一千項總額內應由原住民選出直轄市議員沒有分三三平三而且是要在總額之內在馬英九執政開始的時候因為為了因應他要提出五都五都的這個政策"},{"start":135.942,"end":163.784,"text":"所以要修地方制度法本席那時候不是副主委民國97年98年的時候本席已經降掉紀監了降掉紀監但是本席親自跟張仁香主任委員報告是不是用這樣的機會直轄市要多成立了會涉及到臺中縣市的合併"},{"start":165.505,"end":193.354,"text":"台南縣市的合併、高雄縣市的合併怎麼樣因應原住民的參政權不受到影響。」所以本席提出了這個修正條文給張仁香主任委員。後來他指派我去參加內政部的會議。參加會議之前我跟這個內政部當時的次長林中生次長先溝通協調。"},{"start":195.111,"end":221.882,"text":"他支持按照現在的條文現在的條文就是分三言平言這樣才能夠保障因為沒辦法因為本來的台南縣市有啊有分啊包括台中縣市有分啊高雄縣市有分啊不去處理的話絕對會減少所以去做了這樣的一個"},{"start":222.998,"end":250.893,"text":"而且人數本來是4000人,那就各2000,而且還比現議員的高一,現議員的是1500,所以也符合所以內政部當初就接受,而且為了避免影響總額,為了避免影響7億的議員,7億的直轄市議員的名額,所以也做了"},{"start":251.82,"end":280.587,"text":"不在總額之內,不影響區議的意願。」所以必須要去,嚴明會有很大的責任,因為政府也沒有那麼重大,對於政府的官員來講沒有那麼重大,但是對於原住民而言是很重大。所以原住民的,嚴明會要主動,要去溝通去協調,然後把這個方向要把它抓住,抓好。"},{"start":281.614,"end":309.923,"text":"所以今天也不是第一次審查我們上一屆審查很可惜沒有過所以這樣的一個情況之下地方立法機關組織準則對於直轄市的部分也是在不影響7億的名額不影響7億的名額其他的議員、7億的議員、立委也不會反對所以這個部分本席提出"},{"start":311.169,"end":340.292,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員鄭天"},{"start":340.794,"end":367.142,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案："},{"start":368.109,"end":397.191,"text":"相親族室有超過嗎?相親族室有超過還有呢?像彰化縣彰化縣還有呢?基隆基隆嘛對不對?對我們不影響不要去影響7億所以這個部分這樣的話就你用一個很具體的一個方向說明給所有的這個立法委員他們就會去支持就不會產生那個疑慮啊質詢的時候一直談那個疑慮"},{"start":398.507,"end":399.869,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":414.699,"end":432.358,"text":"非常謝謝鄭天財委員在特別的強調我們並沒有在現行的一般區域的議員裡面的總額而是外加的所以並不會影響目前的區域立法議員的席次這是特別要強調的一點謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151456","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151456","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445af884825542e6ea78f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94b61b70df70fb98815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:13:35 - 11:20:52","影片長度":"00:07:17","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":437,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:20:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:13:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":646,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時13分）謝謝主席，本席請吳次長。"],["主席：有請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：次長好。剛剛在內政委員會，林思銘委員有特別質詢您、請教您，就是關於我們新竹縣的臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區還有科學園區三期的案子，您那時候有回答他說，那是國科會的，然後內政部不知道，這是滿有問題的，因為會議都在內政部開。"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，不是說不知道，因為後面開發的方式是在內政部這邊，我是講當初那一個計畫。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是現在會議都在內政部開都委會。"],["吳次長容輝：這兩個在我們這裡開都委會，這個OK、沒問題，但是桃竹苗的大矽谷這個計畫是在國科會那邊。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。次長，不好意思，請教你，你應該擔任次長比本席第11屆來就任委員還久嘛！您大概擔任次長多久？"],["吳次長容輝：一年多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：一年多了？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們內政部都委會專案小組會議開了非常多次，本席在第8屆當立法委員的時候，臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區的計畫就一直開了，開的時候，剛剛你也回復林思銘委員，他有問你說，為什麼這個都一直不能進入大會？還有這個案為什麼不能通過？您的答復是，因為還有很多反對的意見，是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：還必須要跟公民團體做一些溝通。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我在這裡必須讓次長您知道，回去也要讓部長知道，本席已經質詢過我們行政院長，其實這是錯誤的，從頭到尾，中央耽誤地方，中央怎麼耽誤地方？本席講給你聽，就是其實所有的會議，每一次會議有不同的意見，新竹縣政府在開完會之後就去溝通、協調，而且去解決，即便在都委會的專案會議中，問題都已經解決了，可是我們都委會很厲害，召集人把它變化一下，換個召集人，結果新的召集人上來，什麼案子都不知道，全部重新來，臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區會這樣一直延宕十幾年，一直沒有辦法通過，其實是中央的問題，因為公民團體的意見當然我們要尊重，可是真正在地的，已經不願意徵收的，都已經答應他原地保留，甚至各種零零星星的意見都已經答復，而且地方大家都已經達成共識了，現在只等我們中央，就是中央換召集人全部重來。本席同時再告訴你，我們地方人士還有我們縣政府的局處首長，他們覺得很怪的一個點在於，你在開會的時候，各個單位都邀請來，就像明天要召開的除了內政部之外，環境部、農業部、文化部、客委會、國科會、經濟部、水利署、財政部、電力公司，你全部找來了，在現場有問題，徵詢大家、答復，然後達成共識，達成共識，有決議，結果呢？開完以後，我們中央又再函詢各單位，再函詢一次，大家搞不懂為什麼同樣的事情一直做、一直做、一直輪迴、一直的一個迴圈，你就是不願意核准，問題全部都解決了，還是不願意核准，次長，你覺得這是什麼問題？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我想委員剛剛講的，大概在一般的案子裡面，也許有發生這樣的情形，這個案……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是一般案子，就是臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區的案子。"],["吳次長容輝：這個案子，因為那個專案小組的委員都有一些意見，希望新竹縣政府能夠去做好這些社會溝通工作。"],["徐委員欣瑩：意見都已經解決了，然後你們再換一個新的召集人，本席剛剛已經講了，你就再換一個召集人，然後這個召集人他過去沒有參與，過去來不及參與，所以他又重新來一次，這個案子會拖十幾年就是這樣，鬼打牆，中央一直耽誤地方、中央耽誤地方，這是最大的問題，所以這一點本席請你回去，你們不要再這樣，如果再這樣，我們也會有對峙的方法。","剩下1分鐘的時間，本席要就今天的地方制度法修正條文來請教次長，今天內政部報告第4頁提到，基於離島地區的特殊需要，建議在既有法規基礎上，視實際需要適時辦理修訂。這句話應該是在回應我們離島的陳玉珍委員的提案吧！"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請問次長，您同不同意照顧離島的政策？"],["吳次長容輝：這沒問題啊！現在就有照顧。"],["徐委員欣瑩：同意對不對？沒關係，你就回答啦，同意嘛！"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請問次長，報告這樣回應的意思是要建議修正離島建設條例嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：如果有需要的話，我們認為去修……"],["徐委員欣瑩：到底有沒有需要？"],["吳次長容輝：那就看地方。"],["徐委員欣瑩：地方覺得有需要，你就覺得要修正離島建設條例？"],["吳次長容輝：是，可以修。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，請問次長，是不是也可以定專法？"],["吳次長容輝：我跟委員報告，定專法……委員講的這個基本法，以現在基本法，我們現在定都是按照身分特殊、以身分別來做這個基本法的訂定，沒有針對區域別在訂定基本法，這是一個。第二個就是，現在離島建設條例已經有對離島做到照顧，如果文化、教育或是社福沒有照顧到，我們才會建議可以在離島建設條例裡去修正。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，所以你建議離島建設條例可以修正，所以內政部是不是責無旁貸？應該要積極的研擬、主動提案，負起照顧離島國人的責任，不要等立法委員提案後，你們又反對修法。"],["吳次長容輝：委員，這個我們會和國發會討論，因為離島建設條例是國發會那邊訂定的法令，我們會跟他們討論。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，所以內政部的意見你們還是要提出來。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK！謝謝主席。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝欣瑩委員的質詢，謝謝！謝謝次長的回應，謝謝。","繼續請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.14409375,"end":9.109718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.822218750000001,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.83909375,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.855968750000002,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.024718750000005,"end":44.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.344718750000006,"end":46.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.58909375,"end":51.094718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.50409375,"end":59.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.815343750000004,"end":57.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.16096875,"end":59.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.78534375,"end":61.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.962218750000005,"end":61.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.080343750000004,"end":70.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.84284375,"end":71.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.09159375,"end":72.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.83409375000001,"end":72.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.40784375,"end":101.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.30596875,"end":76.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.36034375,"end":79.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.64721875000001,"end":79.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.65221875,"end":109.31346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.01846875000001,"end":109.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.95471875000001,"end":114.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.33784375,"end":121.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.53971875,"end":119.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.44659375,"end":124.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.45034375,"end":128.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.63534375,"end":140.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.27909375000002,"end":143.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.54846875,"end":146.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.70409375,"end":148.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.88534375,"end":150.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.58971875,"end":152.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.15471875,"end":160.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.91721875000002,"end":163.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.10659375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.53909375,"end":188.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.92971875,"end":191.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.32159375,"end":193.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.41409375,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.90721875,"end":208.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.75784375,"end":225.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.76784375000003,"end":227.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.70846875,"end":229.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.27346875,"end":233.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.07034375,"end":252.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.37096875,"end":256.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.02034375,"end":260.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.76659375,"end":264.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.52971875000003,"end":264.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.58034375,"end":264.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.68159375,"end":264.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.69846875,"end":264.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.73221875,"end":264.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.79971875,"end":264.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.85034375000004,"end":264.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.88409375000003,"end":264.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.90096875,"end":268.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.96846875,"end":265.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.96784375000004,"end":279.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.22784375000003,"end":281.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.25284375,"end":288.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.28659375,"end":282.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.96471875000003,"end":294.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.80346875000004,"end":302.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.67971875,"end":310.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.44221875,"end":311.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.28596875,"end":326.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.27096875,"end":332.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.92409375,"end":337.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.58159375,"end":337.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.42534375,"end":341.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.25596875,"end":344.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.16721875,"end":353.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.46096875,"end":356.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.53659375,"end":356.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.34221875000003,"end":358.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.92846875000004,"end":364.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.60346875000005,"end":362.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.69159375000004,"end":363.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.61971875,"end":364.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.36221875,"end":367.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.27721875000003,"end":373.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.28909375,"end":386.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.87346875000003,"end":398.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.29346875000005,"end":412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.87784375,"end":416.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.09721875,"end":413.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.66221875,"end":425.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.48346875000004,"end":426.58034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.79971875,"end":436.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.78659375,"end":430.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.23784375,"end":432.41909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.019,"end":9.02,"text":"謝謝主席本席請吳次長有請吳次長委員好次長好剛剛在內政委員會林思明委員有特別質詢您就請教您就說我們新竹縣的臺灣知識經濟旗艦園區還有科學園區三旗的案子"},{"start":30.347,"end":30.367,"text":"當初計劃"},{"start":46.638,"end":70.764,"text":"但是現在會議都在內政部開都委會這兩個在我們開都委會這個OK沒問題但桃竹苗的大細股的這個計畫這個是在國科會那邊那次次長不好意思請教您你應該擔任次長比本席第11屆來就任委員久嗎您大概擔任次長多久我一年多"},{"start":71.364,"end":86.335,"text":"一年多內政部都委會專案小組會議開了非常多次本席在第8屆當立法委員的時候就已經台灣知識經濟旗艦園區的計畫就一直開"},{"start":91.898,"end":114.425,"text":"開的時候剛剛您也回覆這個林斯林委員嘛你說他有問你說那為什麼這個都一直不能進入大會還有這個案為什麼不能通過那您的答覆是因為還有很多這個反對的意見是不是公民團體那我在這裡必須要讓次長您知道回去也要"},{"start":115.645,"end":139.341,"text":"讓部長知道本席也已經質詢過我們行政院長其實這個是錯誤的從頭到尾中央耽誤地方中央怎麼耽誤地方本席講給你聽就是其實所有的會議每一次會議有不同的意見新竹縣政府就在開完會之後就去溝通協調而且去解決"},{"start":140.422,"end":159.68,"text":"即便在都委會的專案會議中已經問題都解決了可是我們都委會很厲害召集人把他變化一下換個召集人結果新的召集人上來什麼案子都不知道全部重新來"},{"start":160.987,"end":176.837,"text":"條文知識經濟旗艦園區會這樣一直延宕十幾年一直沒有辦法通過其實是中央的問題因為公民團體的意見當然我們要尊重可是真正在地的"},{"start":177.617,"end":193.623,"text":"已經不願意徵收的都已經答應他原地保留甚至各種零零星星的意見都已經答覆而且地方都已經大家達成共識了現在只等我們中央"},{"start":194.503,"end":213.191,"text":"就是中央換召集員全部重來本席同時再告訴你我們地方人士還有我們縣政府的局處首長他們覺得很怪的一個點在於你在開會的時候各個單位都邀請來就像明天要召開的"},{"start":214.531,"end":226.606,"text":"你內政部之外,環境部、農業部、文化部、寇委會、國科會、經濟部、水利署、財政部、電力公司你全部找來了在現場有問題,徵詢大家答覆"},{"start":230.39,"end":252.681,"text":"然後達成共識有決議。結果呢,開完會以後,我們中央又再寒巡各單位。再寒巡一次,大家搞不懂為什麼。同樣的事情一直做一直做,這個就輪迴。一直的一個迴圈,你就是不願意核准。問題全部都解決了,還是不願意核准。次長,你覺得這是什麼問題?"},{"start":257.979,"end":280.566,"text":"我想你委員剛剛講的這個大概在一般的這個案子裡面也許有發生這樣的情形不是一般案子就是台灣知識經濟旗艦園區的案子這個案子我想因為委員專家那個專案小組的委員都有一些意見嘛那希望能夠這個新竹縣政府能夠去做好這些社會溝通意見都已經解決了"},{"start":281.406,"end":302.318,"text":"然後你們再換一個新的召集人本席剛剛已經講你就再換一個召集人然後這個召集人他什麼狀況過去沒有參與過去來不及參與所以他又重新來一次這個案子會十幾年就是這樣鬼打牆一直中央擔任地方中央擔任地方這是最大的問題"},{"start":303.757,"end":326.064,"text":"所以這一點本席請你回去,你們不要再這樣,如果再這樣我們也會有對峙的方法。好,這個剩下一分鐘本席要就今天地方制度法修正條文請教。請教次長,今天內政部報告第四頁提到,基於離島地區的特殊需要建議在"},{"start":327.364,"end":341.613,"text":"既有法規基礎上,是實際需要適時辦理修訂。」這句話應該是在回應我們李導的陳奕貞委員的提案吧?是。那請問次長,您同不同意照顧李導的政策?"},{"start":342.301,"end":342.881,"text":"請問次長,是不是也可以訂專法?"},{"start":368.385,"end":384.736,"text":"我跟委員報告,訂專是委員講的這個基本法以現在基本法我們現在訂都按照特殊設任北來做這個基本法的這個訂定沒有針對區域北在訂定基本法這是一個那第二個就是說我們現在離島建設條例啊"},{"start":386.937,"end":398.552,"text":"已經對這個離島的這個有照有有做到照顧如果因為文化教育或者社福這些沒有照顧到所以我們來建議說可以在離島建設條例去修正"},{"start":399.343,"end":419.542,"text":"好,所以你建議離島建設條例可以去修正那所以內政部是不是責無旁貸應該要積極的研擬主動提案照顧起我們離島國人的責任那不要讓立法委員提案後又反對修法我會跟國會去討論因為這個離島建設條例是那個國會那邊訂立的法令嘛那我們會來跟他們去討論"},{"start":425.54,"end":425.56,"text":"案 。"}]}},{"id":"151455","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151455","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445a8ca55b681a6392b8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c944d9f4a3faaf30f325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:06:24 - 11:13:27","影片長度":"00:07:03","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":423,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:13:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:06:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":608,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時6分）主席好，我們請內政部吳次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：次長好。今天地方制度法的修法是有關於沒有山地鄉的縣市，其原住民在1,500人以上者應該有原住民選出的議員名額的修法，也對我們原住民的政治參與跟權益有正面的助益。舉例來說，113年2月雲林縣的人口統計，您可以看到我們的平地原住民有1,442位，山地原住民有1,417位，但是因為都沒有達到1,500人，所以原住民的聲音一直沒有辦法被反映出來。未來如果修法有通過的話，雲林縣的山地原住民跟平地原住民合計就有超過1,500人，就可以產生一席的原住民議員，那他們的聲音就可以被反映。而且修法現在有幾個樣態，我要請教一下次長。請問次長，為了不影響既有的議員席次，修法通過之後，是不是可以在原有的名額外新增一席原住民的議員席次？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，如果第三十三條修過了以後，如果採外加的話，當然這部分就跟區域的名額沒有關係，這個就不影響了。"],["許委員宇甄：是。我想這樣的話，可能就不會去影響原有的議員席次。另外，修法通過之後可能會有幾個樣態，首先請教您的就是，如果平地原住民，剛剛我舉的那個例子，平原跟山原加起來超過1,500人，所以就會增加一個平原跟山原綜合選出的原住民的席次。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["許委員宇甄：如果平原它原來有1,600人，山原本來有1,400人，平原這邊本來就可以選出一席，因為超過1,500人，那我可不可以把平原多的這100人借給山地原住民，讓他們可以選出一個平原跟山原綜合選出的原住民議員呢？"],["吳次長容輝：這個就扯到有點複雜了，如果可以把尾數給人家這樣「鬥」的話，不過先決條件還是要先確定，山原跟平原要不要打破合併在一起？"],["許委員宇甄：合併計算，對，所以剛剛我前面提的第一個樣態就是山原跟平原是合併計算嘛……"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我現在只是提醒你們，就是這些樣態有非常多種，可能大家一定要審慎地去研擬之後……"],["吳次長容輝：是，未來才能……"],["許委員宇甄：對，才能夠提出對我們山原、平原最有利的一個狀況，也讓他們可以充分的參與我們的政治，也可以充分的發聲。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，我再請教一下，我們今天要探討的是地方制度法相關條文的修正，其中剛剛有提到的就是行政區劃法。在106年的時候，時任行政院長的賴清德準總統在年終記者會以「均衡臺灣」為題，宣示要啟動臺灣行政區劃重劃，而且在107年5月行政院也通過了行政區劃法的草案。請問一下，這中間經過第9屆、第10屆，可是到現在都還沒有完成立法，既然賴清德準總統擔任行政院長的時候認為行政區劃法有其重要性，請問在這麼長的一段時間內，為什麼沒有提出政府版的草案，一直拖到現在才說送行政院？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，其實院版這個部分我們一直有在討論，行政院那邊也有審查，只是說現在審查有一些意見，我們必須補送意見到行政院再續審。"],["許委員宇甄：從107年通過行政區劃法草案到現在也已經五、六年了，為什麼這麼長的時間都沒有辦法真正把行政院的草案送到立法院來審議？"],["吳次長容輝：我想以前有送到立法院，只是那時候的名稱……"],["許委員宇甄：第9屆的時候嘛！"],["吳次長容輝：後來又改了名稱，加了一個程序。"],["許委員宇甄：所以到底是什麼樣的原因會拖到現在？"],["吳次長容輝：因為外界有不同的意見進來，再加上我們也委託做了一個研究，委託政治大學做了一個研究，去年底有出來了，我們根據這個研究再去綜整一些內容、條文。"],["許委員宇甄：我想既然是準總統賴清德在他擔任行政院長的時候提出來的，所以我覺得內政部應該要重視這件事情。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["許委員宇甄：要儘快把行政院的草案送到立法院來審議。"],["吳次長容輝：這個我們在內部也都討論過了。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，我想再請教你，在蔡英文總統任內說要20萬戶的社會住宅，其中12萬戶是新建的住宅，但是根據內政部不動產資訊平台顯示，我們可以看一下，截至2024年3月31日的達成數，規劃中的是2萬8,637戶，已決標待開工的是2萬8,964戶，興建中的是3萬9,936戶，12萬戶中有9萬7,537戶還沒有辦法居住，現在離520卸任日期差不多只剩1個月了，還有承諾中的81.28%的社會住宅不曉得在哪裡？請問一下，這個就是內政部非常重視的社會住宅的規劃嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我們新建的部分是12萬戶，包租代管是8萬戶，實際上到3月底是9萬8,000戶左右，以這樣的速度，我們認為在年底之前可以達成20萬戶的目標。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說，現在還有81.28%還沒有達到，你們在年底之前就可以達到，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：因為有一些陸陸續續都有在開工……"],["許委員宇甄：因為我剛剛有跟你講這個數據了，所以你們認為你們在過去這幾年沒有辦法，只完成了19%左右，未來到年底就可以完成81.28%嗎？希望次長能夠針對這個部分給本席一個你們目前執行的狀況。"],["吳次長容輝：好。"],["許委員宇甄：另外還要特別提到的是，這只是蔡英文總統講的20萬戶，我們的準總統賴清德他講的是100萬戶，他在選舉期間講的是100萬戶，現在連20萬戶都做不到，未來100萬戶是不是有可能做到？所以這個部分請內政部一定要審慎的處理，不可以再愚弄民眾，拜託大家，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：是，這個我們會努力，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝次長。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢，也謝謝吳次長。繼續請徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.76846875,"end":9.531593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.125968750000002,"end":13.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.46346875,"end":86.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.76096875,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.00471875000001,"end":97.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.77534375,"end":114.24096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.44346875000001,"end":140.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.95346875000001,"end":118.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.22346875000001,"end":118.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.91409375,"end":127.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.30846875,"end":143.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.10971875,"end":148.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.26159375,"end":144.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.48034375,"end":150.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.89346875,"end":152.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.07909375,"end":226.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.78284375,"end":156.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.81659375,"end":156.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.41471875000002,"end":164.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.21471875,"end":174.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.03346875000003,"end":229.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.75034375,"end":238.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.23409375000003,"end":241.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.90471875000003,"end":249.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.42659375000002,"end":253.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.42159375000003,"end":261.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.22284375000004,"end":258.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.69471875,"end":262.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.33159375,"end":265.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.99784375,"end":273.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.86159375,"end":277.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.13096875,"end":279.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.68346875000003,"end":280.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.24034375,"end":295.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.34784375000004,"end":296.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.30534375,"end":340.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.83846875,"end":362.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.10096875000005,"end":367.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.19284375,"end":368.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.20971875000004,"end":369.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.22659375,"end":372.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.70284375,"end":374.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.04846875000004,"end":374.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.58846875,"end":384.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.79784375,"end":398.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.91471875,"end":393.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.07846875,"end":398.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.61846875000003,"end":402.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.12846875,"end":402.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.49971875,"end":418.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.01284375,"end":413.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.81409375000004,"end":418.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.60659375,"end":422.49659375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.036,"end":32.592,"text":"主席好,我們請內政部吳次長請吳次長委員好次長好我想針對今天有關地方制度法的修法是有關我們沒有山地鄉的縣市的原住民在1500人以上的應該有原住民選出的這個議員名額的一個修法也是對我們原住民的政治參與跟權益有一個正面的注意"},{"start":34.013,"end":58.847,"text":"舉例來說,在113年2月雲林縣的人口統計你可以看到我們的平地原住民有1442位山地原住民有1417位但是因為都沒有達到1500人所以原住民的聲音一直沒有辦法被反映出來那未來如果修法有通過的話雲林縣的山地原住民跟平地原住民"},{"start":59.267,"end":85.92,"text":"合計就有超過1500人就可以產生一席的原住民的議員,那他們的聲音就可以被反映,而且修法呢,我想,雖然有幾個樣態,我要請教一下這個次長,請問一下次長,為了不影響既有的議員席次,修法通過之後,新增的這個原住民的議員的席次,是不是可以在原有的名額外增加一席原住民的議員席次?"},{"start":87.84,"end":104.086,"text":"如果三十三條修過了以後若採外加的話當然這個就跟區域就沒關係就不影響了我想這樣的話可能就不會去影響原有的議員的席次那另外就是說現在修法通過之後可能會有幾個樣態"},{"start":105.566,"end":120.803,"text":"首先請教您就是說如果平地原住民剛剛我覺得平原跟山原加起來是超過1500人所以說就會增加一個平地平原跟山原綜合選出的原住民的席次嗎那如果平原它原來有1600人"},{"start":122.585,"end":133.429,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":150.953,"end":153.555,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草"},{"start":175.65,"end":184.535,"text":"另外我再請教一下我們今天要探討的是地方制度法的相關條文的修正其中剛剛有提到的就是行政區劃法因為這個是在106年的時候時任行政院長的賴清德"},{"start":192.679,"end":211.642,"text":"總總統在年終記者會議均衡台灣為題宣誓要啟動台灣行政區劃重劃而且他也在107年的5月行政院也通過了行政區劃法的草案那請問一下這當然這中間經過第九屆第十屆可是到現在都還沒有完成這個立法既然是"},{"start":212.543,"end":226.437,"text":"賴清德總總統擔任行政院長的時候認為行政催化法有其重要性。請問在這麼長的一段時間內,為什麼沒有提出政府版的草案?一直拖到現在才說送這個行政院?其實這個"},{"start":229.941,"end":252.981,"text":"就是驗版的這個部分我們一直有在討論那行政院那邊也有審查只是說現在審查有一些意見我們必須要去補送意見到行政院再詢問那從107年通過行政區劃法的草案到現在已經有5、6年了那為什麼這麼長的時間都沒有辦法真正把行政院的草案送到立法院來審議"},{"start":254.648,"end":265.184,"text":"我想以前有送到立法院,只是那時候的名稱後來有改了,又改了名稱,加了一個程序所以現在到底是什麼樣的原因會拖到現在?"},{"start":266.161,"end":294.28,"text":"因為外界有不同的意見進來再加上我們也委託了做了一個研究委託中正大學做了一個研究那去年底有出來啦那我們根據這個研究我們再去這個裝整一些內容條文因為我想這個既然是這個準總統賴清德他在擔任行政院長時候提出來的嘛所以我覺得內政部應該要重視這件事情要盡快的這個把這個行政院的這個草案能夠盡快送到立法院"},{"start":296.381,"end":299.682,"text":"蔡英文總統任內要20萬戶的社會住宅,其中12萬戶是新建的住宅。但是根據內政部不動產的資訊平台顯示,在2024年3月31日的達成數,規劃中的是28,637戶,以絕標帶開工的是28,964戶,新建中的是39,936戶。"},{"start":321.87,"end":323.532,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具〈地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":341.128,"end":366.899,"text":"報告委員,我們這個興建部分是12萬戶,那報酬貸款是8萬戶那實際上這個到3月底是9萬8千戶左右那以這樣的一個速度,我們認為在年底之前可以達成20萬戶的目標也就是說現在還有81.28%還沒有達到,你們在年底之前就可以達到"},{"start":368.26,"end":384.087,"text":"是這樣的意思嗎?因為有一些陸陸續續都有在開工因為我剛剛有跟你講這個數據的嘛所以你們認為你們在過去這幾年沒有辦法只完成了19.19%左右在未來到年底就可以完成81.28%嗎?"},{"start":387.429,"end":387.81,"text":"案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":406.834,"end":418.005,"text":"連20萬戶都做不到,未來100萬戶是不是有可能做到?所以這個部分請內政部一定要審慎的來去處理這樣,不可以再把民眾愚弄喔,拜託大家,謝謝。是,是,這個我們會努力,謝謝。謝謝市長。謝謝徐玉珍委員的質詢。"}]}},{"id":"151454","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151454","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452167470c7f6406668f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c940303f983ebd4ce0e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:59:28 - 11:06:17","影片長度":"00:06:49","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":409,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:06:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:59:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":562,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時59分）謝謝主席。次長有請。"],["主席：我們請次長，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：今天討論地方制度法的修正，我們先討論了原住民的部分，剛剛大體上我們也聽了不同的委員對於這個法案的不同想法，其中很多人就提到，原住民的身分認定從光復之後到現在都沒有檢討修正，是不是要一併處理，這當然有一定的道理；當然也有委員提到，有關席次的總額，是不是也要一併做檢討。這些當然都可以討論，這個本席也同意做討論，但我就要問，過去8年為什麼都不做呢？你要不要回答一下。"],["吳次長容輝：我想以前也曾經都有討論過這些，不是沒有討論，只是說現在正式有提案要去討論這個東西，我們就回過頭來看非原民鄉的山地原住民，在目前現行的地制法第三十三條是沒有保障到這一塊，所以現在提出來要……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，所以眼下立刻要面對的就是這些沒有山地鄉的縣市，相對來講，山地原住民的投票權益其實是變相被剝奪，也就是理論上，按照法律的精神跟規則，應該要選出山地原住民的代表，但實務上法規的缺漏，讓他們沒有辦法選出山地原住民的代表，甚至要去選一般的、漢人的區域議員，這是不是一個問題？是一個問題，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以，即便大家去談原住民的身分要不要一起做個檢討，席次的總額要不要一起做個檢討，這都不構成說今天這個法案因為茲事體大，因為要檢討，所以我們緩議、再議，我想是不構成這樣的理由，次長同意我這樣的說法嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：是。不過報告委員，我要特別強調，雖然現在整個保障沒有保障到這一塊，不代表他沒有參政權，他還是有參政權。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，他的參政權實際上就是變相被剝奪，我剛剛講了，他應該要有自己的代表，可是實務上做不到這件事情，所以我想這個修法，法條更動的數量其實不多，然後你可以把它看作成一個過渡，你可以視為權宜之計。也就是說我至少要解決這一段時間，在沒有山地鄉的縣市，這些山地原住民或是都會型的山地原住民的參政權益要立刻得到保障，所以即便身分、總額要檢討，但不表示這個法案我們可以放著。因為你要通案檢討又變成茲事體大，就又變成實際上在臺灣占有多數的非原住民的民意代表在決定這群人的命運，我覺得好像也不是太妥適。所以，作為權宜機制，我希望這樣的法案修正可以儘速的過關，那當然同步我們就開始針對原住民的身分，針對席次的總額做大體討論，兩者並進其實是不衝突的。這樣我們在短期內兼顧了目前參政權受到變相剝奪的這一群人的權益，但是我們也開始針對長遠的制度規則做討論，次長同意這樣的說法嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：是，這個我想都可以來討論。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以，今天這個法案就速審速修，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：是，我們看……"],["牛委員煦庭：你剛剛都同意了喔！"],["吳次長容輝：這個方向我們都OK，沒有問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個方向OK？好，謝謝。第二個部分，我們今天討論地方制度法，除了討論原住民的權益之外，還有另外也討論到直轄市、縣市合併改制升格的狀況。過去行政院主政的政務委員曾經講，過去我們在討論行政區劃程序法或者是行政區劃法的規定的時候，他們有講說現在地制法就可以啦，可是從法理的角度來講，2010年所適用的地方制度法事涉合併改制的規定，是因為我們沒有行政區劃法，因為沒有行政區劃法，所以它是一個權宜的措施，次長同意我這樣的說法嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：是，所以我們才要訂行政區劃程序法。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒錯，我們未來的總統賴清德先生，過去在擔任行政院長的時候就提出了院版的行政區劃法，對不對？那為什麼後來胎死腹中了呢？"],["吳次長容輝：後來因為大家還一直在討論，因為有一些不同的意見。"],["牛委員煦庭：那內政部是不是應該要趕快加緊來做討論？"],["吳次長容輝：我們現在已經送到院裡面，院裡面審查後有一些要補充資料，現在退回到我們部裡面，我們再整理一些補充資料。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個第9屆就提過，第10屆有委員也提了，反正很多人都提過，民進黨的也有提過，民眾黨曾經也都提過，但最後都沒有辦法完成立法，我是覺得非常可惜啦！當然大家都講說，行政區劃這件事情可能要儘量求穩定，可是怎麼樣要有一個遊戲規則嘛，要有一個遊戲規則讓大家可以去依循的時候，我們才能夠基於選區生活品質的需要，去做行政區劃的合理調整，讓它切合真正生活圈這樣的一個規範，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是，這個我們……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以，我想這個法案有絕對的必要性，而且它絕對是民生法案，本席在這裡表達我們的立場，我們不希望這樣的民生法案……因為立法院難免政治味很濃厚，但是政治味再怎麼濃厚，我們都不能耽誤民生法案的修法，既然我們未來的總統在過去擔任行政院長的時候，這是他重要的施政目標，我也希望未來的內政部把行政區劃法的修訂納為第一優先的目標，次長同意嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：這個我們會加速來做。"],["牛委員煦庭：有沒有一個具體的時間表？你剛剛講說已經送到行政院，然後有一定的期程，什麼時候我們可以看到院版的草案？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，這一部分我們在補充資料之後會馬上送到行政院去審理……"],["牛委員煦庭：不要只說「馬上」，有沒有大概一個時間，比如一個月內、兩個月大家可以看到草案，對不對？我們要看到草案，我們來做功課準備要修法嘛。"],["吳次長容輝：是，我們也會儘量快，因為行政院那邊審議的時間，我沒辦法去掌握，不過我們這邊會……"],["牛委員煦庭：你不是行政院的代表，你對行政院審議的時間沒有辦法掌控？"],["吳次長容輝：我沒有辦法，因為送到行政院，行政院什麼時候開會……"],["牛委員煦庭：也就是送到你長官，放在長官的桌上就對了？"],["吳次長容輝：也不會啦，因為……"],["牛委員煦庭：你今天回去跟院內報告的時候，你就講委員都非常關心這個法案的修正，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：是，這個我們會轉達。"],["牛委員煦庭：希望行政院可以趕快有一個版本出來，那本席當然，這個事涉我選區的權益，我的選區就是地處邊界，有很多地方希望透過行政區劃的合理調整讓生活圈能夠一致，有這樣的需求，所以本席也會提出相關的立法草案，但是既然這是不分藍綠的一個施政方向，當然也要有一個院版認為可以執行的草案，大家在討論的時候會比較具體。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我們也不希望到最後只有委員的版本，沒有行政院的版本，這樣是不太好的，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：會，會有。"],["牛委員煦庭：我再次提醒，這是賴清德準總統曾經一個非常重要的目標，我希望在這個任期裡面可以讓這個法案順利的修正過關，大家充分來做討論，可以嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：是。好，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝次長，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢，謝謝次長的回應，謝謝。","繼續我們請許宇甄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.257843750000001,"end":7.523468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.36721875,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.222843750000003,"end":14.644718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.914718750000002,"end":17.445968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.51346875,"end":46.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.618468750000005,"end":48.259718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.54221875,"end":53.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.351593750000006,"end":63.767843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.17284375,"end":70.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.50096875,"end":94.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.71721875,"end":90.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.85159375,"end":95.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.84721875000001,"end":96.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.38721875,"end":101.92221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.15846875000001,"end":112.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.57034375,"end":115.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.82721875,"end":121.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.90221875,"end":150.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.13346875,"end":127.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.75846875000002,"end":184.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.03159375,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.11971875,"end":190.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.51159375,"end":192.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.89971875,"end":192.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.53659375,"end":194.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.58721875,"end":196.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.24096875,"end":233.37846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.37846875000002,"end":237.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.75346875000002,"end":244.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.87034375000002,"end":246.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.53659375,"end":251.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.36721875,"end":254.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.40096875,"end":251.43471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.45159375000003,"end":251.46846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.15159375000002,"end":260.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.25596875,"end":262.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.87596875,"end":263.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.78721875,"end":280.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.66221875,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.37346875000003,"end":293.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.77846875,"end":316.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.14596875,"end":319.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.03596875,"end":326.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.80659375000005,"end":335.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.10534375000003,"end":341.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.20971875000004,"end":349.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.66846875000005,"end":351.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.92534375,"end":355.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.03034375000004,"end":357.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.35909375,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.23659375,"end":363.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.08409375,"end":364.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.82221875000005,"end":381.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.24971875,"end":406.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.45159375000003,"end":386.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.44284375,"end":388.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.73346875000004,"end":393.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.53034375000004,"end":395.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.66096875000005,"end":396.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.63409375000003,"end":409.45221875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.277,"end":10.298,"text":"謝謝主席,次長有請我們請次長,謝謝這我們今天討論的地方制度法是修正那先討論這個原住民的部分剛剛大體上我們也聽了不同的委員對這個法案的不同的想法那其中很多人去提到原住民的身份的認定從光復之後到現在都沒有檢討修正是不是要一併來做處理這當然有一定的道理"},{"start":33.926,"end":53.312,"text":"當然委員有提到有關席次的總額是不是也要做一併的檢討這些當然都可以討論這本席也同意去做討論但我就要問這過去八年為什麼都不做呢?你要不要回答一下我想以前也曾經都有討論過這些不是說沒有討論"},{"start":54.42,"end":68.779,"text":"只是說現在有正式有提案嘛提案要去討論這個東西那我們就回過頭來看說這個肺炎命香的這個3D原珠瓶在整個目前現行的地制法三十三條是沒有沒有沒有保障到這一塊"},{"start":69.62,"end":89.57,"text":"所以說眼下立刻在面對的其實就是這些沒有山地鄉的縣市相對來講山地原住民的投票權益他其實變相被剝奪也就理論上我們按照法律的精神跟規則我們應該選出山地原住民的代表但實務上法規的缺漏讓他們沒有辦法選出山地原住民的代表甚至要去選一般的漢人的這個區域的議員這是不是一個問題"},{"start":94.935,"end":117.114,"text":"是一個問題對不對?是。所以即便大家去談說原住民的身份要不要一起做檢討?席次的總和要一起做檢討?這都不構成啦!今天這個法案因為知識體大因為要檢討所以我們懷疑、在意我想是不構成這樣子的理由啦!次長同意我這樣的說法嗎?是。不過我報告委員我要特別強調整個雖然現在沒有"},{"start":118.074,"end":132.262,"text":"現在這個保障沒有保障到這一塊,不代表他沒有參政權,他還是有參政權。對,他的參政權在實際上就是變相被剝奪。我剛剛講了嘛,他應該要有自己的代表,可是實務上他做不到這件事情。所以我想這修法條更動其實數量不多啦。"},{"start":132.702,"end":133.922,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":150.828,"end":165.772,"text":"因為你通過那間檢討又變成知識體大就又變成實際上在台灣佔有多數的非原住民的民意代表在決定這群人的命運我覺得好像也不是太妥適啦所以作為權宜的機制我是希望這樣子的法案修正可以盡速的來過關那當然同步啊"},{"start":168.373,"end":190.012,"text":"我們就開始針對原住民的身份針對席浙總和做大體的討論兩者並進其實是不衝突的這樣子我們在短期內兼顧了這樣子目前參政權受到偏向剝奪政權的權益但是我們也開始針對長遠的制度規則做討論市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎?市長同意這樣說法嗎"},{"start":197.229,"end":219.406,"text":"第二部分我們今天討論地方制度法除了我們討論原住民的權益之外另外也討論到直轄市、縣市合併改制升格的狀況過去行政院主政的政務委員曾經講我們在討論過去的行政區劃程序法或者是行政區劃法的規定的時候他們有講說現在地制法就可以啦可是從法理的角度來講"},{"start":220.607,"end":244.137,"text":"2010年所適用的地方制度法市社合併改制的規定是因為我們沒有行政區劃法因為沒有行政區劃法所以它是一個權宜的措施市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市長同意我這樣說法嗎?市"},{"start":247.611,"end":262.736,"text":"後來因為還一直在討論因為有些不同的意見那內政部是不是應該要趕快加緊來做討論我們現在已經送到院裡面院員審查那有一些要補充資料現在退這個回到我們部裡面我們再整理一些補充資料這個喔"},{"start":263.996,"end":279.493,"text":"第九屆就提過,第十屆委員也提過,民進黨也有提過,民眾黨曾經也都提過,但都沒有辦法完成立法。我是覺得非常可惜啦。當然大家都講說行政區化這件事情可能要盡量求穩定,可是怎麼樣要有一個遊戲規則嘛。"},{"start":280.794,"end":306.227,"text":"那也要有遊戲規則讓大家有一個遊戲規則可以去依循的時候我們才能夠基於選區生活品質的需要來去做行政區化的合理調整讓它切合真正生活圈的這樣一個規範嘛 對不對所以我想這個法案有絕對的必要性而且它是絕對是民生法案本期在這裡表達我們的立場嘛我不希望這樣子的民生法案因為立法院難免政治位很濃厚但是政治位再怎麼濃厚我們都不能耽誤民生法案的修法"},{"start":306.587,"end":325.945,"text":"那既然這個我們未來的總統這過去他在行政院長的時候是他的重要的施政目標我也希望未來的內政部啊把行政缺乏法律修訂啊那會第一優先的目標市長同意嗎這個我們會加速來做有沒有一個具體的時間表你剛剛講說已經送到立法院然後有一定的有一定的期程什麼時候我們可以看到院版的草案"},{"start":329.557,"end":351.304,"text":"報告委員這一部分我們在補充資料我們會馬上送到行政院去做審理那馬上大概有沒有一個比如一個月內兩個月大概可以看到草案嘛對不對我們要看到草案我們才做功課準備要修法嘛是我們會盡量快啦因為行政院那邊的審理的時間我們沒辦法去掌握不過我們這邊會你不是行政院的代表你行政院審議時間沒有辦法掌控"},{"start":352.317,"end":377.123,"text":"我沒辦法因為送到行政院行政院什麼時候開會也就送到你長官放在長官的桌上就對了也不會啦你今天回去這個跟院內報告的時候你就講委員都非常關心這個法案的修正好不好希望他趕快有一個版本可以出來那本席當然啦這個試測我選區的權益啊我們的選區就有地處邊界就有很多的地方是希望透過行政計畫的合理調整讓生活圈能夠一致有這樣的需求"},{"start":377.543,"end":404.312,"text":"所以本席也會提出相關的立法草案但是既然這個是不分藍綠的一個施政方向當然也要有一個院版認為可以執行的草案大家來討論的時候它會比較具體啦所以說我們也不要說到最後只有委員的版本沒有行政院的版本這樣是不太好的好不好所以這個是我再提醒這是賴清德準總統曾經的非常重要的目標我希望在這個任期裡面可以讓這個法案可以順利的修正來過關大家充分來做討論可以嗎好謝謝市長辛苦了"},{"start":406.684,"end":407.047,"text":"好,謝謝了,謝謝聽會員的資訊,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151453","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151453","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445db5e6a6245cdcaae8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c9487e74d03d353af155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:51:10 - 10:59:11","影片長度":"00:08:01","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":481,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:59:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:51:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":538,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時51分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：時間很短，我把握時間。針對今天排審地方制度法第三十三條，希望能夠擴大對原住民族國人參政的保障，在態度上我們當然是正面的，只是在操作的執行上，我們需要再找出最高的共識、最好的方向。","回到選舉制度上，我們應當好好思考要繼續去區分山地原住民、繼續去區分平地原住民，有這個必要嗎？我看到高金素梅召委的案子，我認為那是一個可以值得參考的方向，也就是在沒有山地鄉的縣市，現在有8個縣市，不再繼續區分山地跟平地原住民族的身分，因為現在的制度真的很怪。我也是因為這個條文的審議，才有機會爬梳一下，原來原住民族的戶籍規定是從日治時期光復的那一刻開始就劃定了，不能更改，後代子孫一樣沿用。所以就發生一種怪誕的情形，就是明明是同一族的人或是同一家人，可是有的人因為日治時期被限制住的戶籍關係，一家人、同一族人，有的被區分為山地原住民，有的被區分為平地原住民，然後不能投票給他的家人，這很奇怪啦！所以我認為這個條文真的可以再商榷，高金素梅召委的版本其實是一個可以討論的方向。","另外，我想就教於您，今天這個法案修下去之後，第一波會受影響的縣市大概有8個，你們有沒有跟這些縣市徵詢過他們的意見？"],["吳次長容輝：因為這還沒有確定，所以還沒有正式跟縣市政府……"],["吳委員思瑤：你們應當預做準備，立法院都排審了耶！任何一個跟地方縣市的執行有關，而且這茲事體大，選舉的名額不管是內含、外加，都影響當地的縣市政府，還有監督地方政府的縣市議會議員的組成，何其重大？如果你還沒有去徵詢，那今天審這個案子，恐怕還值得商榷！趕快去徵詢，好嗎？否則立法院跑太快，地方政府跟不上，我想這不是提案委員所樂見的，可以嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：的確，因為這可能涉及到的不只是席次的問題，如果席次有增減，還涉及到經費來源問題，也就是說，地方自治地方要去編列啦！"],["吳委員思瑤：是啊！對啊！國庫嘛！因為席次增加，而且這是地方政府要負擔的財源，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，進入我另外一個主題。今天我們關心原住民族的權益，那我要跟您談談反歧視法。校園不斷出現對於原住民族污名化或歧視性的言論，從國教到高教都有，我這邊秀出來的，就以去年2023年為例，臺中一中發生了；大學端，臺大言論自由月發生了歧視原住民族的海報，然後2023年臺大經濟系學生會選舉，也發生了參選人的政見歧視原住民族，所以教育失靈了嗎？臺灣需要反歧視法，這是落實讓人權條約國內法化，所有的國際人權公約，第一種就是與今天相關的消除一切形式種族歧視國際公約，臺灣必須有一個國內法來反映我們跟進國際反歧視、一切平等的作為。","臺灣需要一部反歧視法，因為我們要跟上聯合國SDGs的目標，而當中一個指標──減少不平等的指標，就包括對於所有人的尊嚴、社經地位、生存平等，政府都要給予包容跟支持的政策來協助他。可是次長你看喔！現在臺灣對於反歧視的條款散列於各法，而且現行法律欠缺一致性，譬如我們有性別平等教育法、性別工作平等法，這是對於性別平等的保障；對於原住民族有一個工作權保障法，可是它沒有那麼嚴謹；對於新住民，我們也試圖在入出國及移民法規範，但是它散列各法，各法欠缺一致性。所以我非常樂見我們不分藍綠的立委，反族群歧視法在臺灣、在國會已經有4位委員提案了，藍綠都有，但是它是focus在反族群歧視，提案的都是原住民族的委員，包括本黨的伍麗華委員、陳瑩委員。","我要就教次長的是，如果4位委員所提的反族群歧視法，主管機關會落在內政部或原民會，但現在法務部及行政院人權及轉型正義處同時在研議一個適用於所有對象、不同對象的國家級反歧視法，或稱為平等法，這是由法務部草擬，我為什麼有這個提問？因為陳建仁院長在去年5月接受立法院院會委員的總質詢時，表示會委由內政部提出反族群歧視平等法的草案，也就是要有內政部的部版，但是它是focus在族群歧視的部分。因為我是司法及法制委員會委員，我也質詢了法務部部長，法務部現在回復給我說，行政院傾向於要把它成為一部專法，而不是單獨針對族群立法，所以我就要問你們了，現在內政部對於族群平等法有繼續研議嗎？還是已經停下腳步，隨同法務部，讓國家內閣一致的用一個反歧視的專法含納所有反歧視行為？現在你們的研議跟方向是什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我想先決條件要先強調，任何的歧視都不被允許……"],["吳委員思瑤：都不應該存在，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：這部分當初在移民法修正時，是有提到反歧視，但現在講的內政部研議反族群歧視平等法，目前是沒有，我們移民署這邊是沒有。"],["吳委員思瑤：沒有？"],["吳次長容輝：沒有。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以應當就是配合法務部以及行政院平等處往專法的方向走，很好！還好我來得及踩這個煞車，臺灣是需要一部平等法或稱之為反歧視法的專法，比較於國際經驗，不管是進步的加拿大、德國、英國，乃至於鄰近的日本，他們的立法也是專法，含納所有包括性別、年齡、外貌、工作環境、族群等各項，也包括女性有沒有婚育的部分。本人就被嚴重歧視過，沒有結婚的女性就要被歧視，不生小孩就要被歧視，所以是一部專法，好，那我支持，希望內政部未來可以協助內閣，在國家反歧視專法的法律面、組織面及制度面上，我們一起來努力，相信內政委員會的委員也一定都會支持，好嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：好，謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢，謝謝，謝謝次長。","繼續我們請莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.22034375,"end":6.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.599093750000002,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.392218750000001,"end":39.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.41284375,"end":56.258468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.93346875,"end":64.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.71284375,"end":65.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.97846875,"end":70.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.04534375,"end":70.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.78784375000001,"end":71.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.15471875,"end":73.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.14596875000001,"end":84.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.21596875,"end":86.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.25784375,"end":93.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.92346875000001,"end":102.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.23846875000001,"end":114.40971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.96221875,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.65346875,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.90784375,"end":143.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.68784375,"end":153.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.55659375000002,"end":146.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.42471875,"end":163.83659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.95534375,"end":160.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.05221875,"end":166.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.59596875,"end":165.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.11471875,"end":166.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.35096875000002,"end":166.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.45221875000001,"end":176.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.05971875,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.20159375,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.49471875,"end":196.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.86096875,"end":206.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.59784375,"end":209.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.22596875000002,"end":229.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.83471875,"end":249.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.29159375,"end":249.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.43909375,"end":252.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.76784375000003,"end":279.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.59909375,"end":280.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.78034375000004,"end":281.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.82659375000003,"end":285.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.42096875000004,"end":305.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.14784375,"end":307.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.94909375000003,"end":330.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.43909375000004,"end":344.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.71971875,"end":354.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.16534375000003,"end":357.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.88221875000005,"end":391.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.54346875000005,"end":407.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.12909375000004,"end":399.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.13721875000005,"end":400.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.16971875,"end":413.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.33346875,"end":418.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.92346875000004,"end":418.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.73346875000004,"end":425.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.97784375000003,"end":423.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.11659375000005,"end":425.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.25971875000005,"end":479.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.99034375,"end":476.68221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.377,"end":3.518,"text":"有請次長"},{"start":11.112,"end":39.326,"text":"時間很短喔那我把握時間針對今天排審地方制度法三十三條希望能夠擴大對原住民族國人參政的保障那在態度上我們當然是正面的只是在操作的執行上我們需要在找出一個最高的共識最好的方向那回到選舉制度上我們應當好好去思考要繼續去區分山地原住民繼續去區分平地原住民有這個必要嗎"},{"start":40.487,"end":40.627,"text":"案。二、審查委員"},{"start":70.827,"end":83.732,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":94.076,"end":113.202,"text":"這很奇怪啦所以我認為在審議這個條文是真的可以再商榷高金素梅交委的版本其實是一個可以討論的方向那另外我想就教於您今天這個法案修下去之後第一波就是說也是會受影響的縣市大概有八個嘛你們有沒有跟這些縣市徵詢他們的意見"},{"start":116.407,"end":127.87,"text":"因為這個還沒有確定說還沒有正式去跟這個縣市政府你們應該要預作準備啊立法院都在排審了耶任何一個跟地方縣市的執行而且這個是姿勢體大選舉的名額不管內涵外加這影響當地的縣市政府還有他受監督的縣市議會的這個議員的組成和其重大所以如果你還沒有去徵詢那今天審這個那恐怕"},{"start":144.095,"end":161.546,"text":"還值得商榷趕快去徵詢好嗎?否則立法院跑太快可是地方政府跟不上我想這不是提案委員所樂見的,可以嗎?的確,因為這個涉及到可能也不只是西市的問題啦你如果有徵檢的話還涉及到經費來源的問題,也就是說地方的國庫啊,因為西市增加嘛而且這是地方政府要負擔的財源喔,對不對?好"},{"start":168.13,"end":195.744,"text":"那進入我另外一個主題今天我們在關心原住民族的權益那我要跟您談談反歧視法好下一頁校園不斷出發生出現對於原住民族汙名化或是歧視性的言論從國教到高教我這邊秀出來的有我就以去年2023年台中一中發生了大學端台大言論院也發生了歧視原住民族的海報"},{"start":196.96,"end":199.901,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":210.273,"end":229.129,"text":"台灣需要反歧視法這是落實讓人權條約國內法化所以國際的人權公約第一種就是我們今天相關的種族歧視的國際公約台灣必須有一個國內法來反映我們跟進國際反歧視一切平等的作為下一頁"},{"start":229.91,"end":248.407,"text":"台灣需要一部反歧視法因為我們要跟上聯合國SDGs的目標而當中一個指標減少不平等的這個指標就包括對於所有人的尊嚴他的射精地位生存平等政府都要給予包容跟支持的政策來協助他下一頁"},{"start":252.83,"end":279.177,"text":"可是次長你看喔,現在台灣對於反歧視的是散列於各法而且現行的法律是欠缺一致性譬如說我們對性別平等教育法、性別平等工作法是對於性別的平等保障那對於原住民族有一個工作權益的保障可是他就沒有那麼嚴謹我們對於新住民也試圖在入出國籍移民法去規範但是他散列各法,各法欠缺一致性下一頁"},{"start":280.817,"end":306.831,"text":"所以說我非常樂見我們不分藍綠的立委反族群歧視法在台灣在國會已經有四位委員提案了藍綠都有但是他是focus在反族群歧視法提案的都是原住民族的委員包括本黨的吳立華委員包括本黨的陳寅委員好下一頁我要就教於您的就是"},{"start":308.058,"end":330.364,"text":"如果說是四位委員所提的反族群的平等法都會落在主管機關市內政部或是園民會但如果說反歧視法現在法務部以及行政院的人權及轉型正義處同時在研議一個適用於所有對象不同對象的"},{"start":331.745,"end":360.371,"text":"國家級的反歧視法或稱為平等法。」這是法務部在草擬。換言之下一頁我為什麼這個提問呢?因為陳建仁院長在去年5月接受立法院院會委員的總質詢的時候他說會委由內政部來提出反族群歧視平等法的修法也就是要有內政部的佈板但是他是focus在族群歧視的部分"},{"start":360.911,"end":363.772,"text":"可是因為我是司法法制委員會,我也質詢了法務部部長,法務部現在回覆給我說,行政院傾向於要把它成為一部專法,而不是單獨針對族群做一個單獨的立法,所以我就要問你們了,"},{"start":376.276,"end":391.666,"text":"現在內政部對於族群平等法有繼續研議嗎還是已經停下腳步隨同法務部這個國家內閣一致的用一個反歧視的專法喊罵所有的反歧視行為現在你們的研議跟方向是什麼"},{"start":393.415,"end":407.113,"text":"法務委員,我想要先強調,任何歧視是不被引起的。這一部分當初在移民法修正的時候有提到這個反歧視,但是現在"},{"start":409.496,"end":425.656,"text":"現在講說那這麼大嚴厲反歧視的租金平等法目前是沒有在我們移民署這邊是沒有沒有所以應當就是配合法務部以及行政院的平等處去做一個專法的方向很好下一頁"},{"start":426.337,"end":446.474,"text":"那還好我來得及來踩這個煞車。就是說台灣是需要一部平等法或是稱之為反歧視法還是專法。我們比較於國際經驗,不管是進步的加拿大、德國、英國乃至於鄰近的日本,他們的立法也是專法。含納所有包括性別、年齡、外貌、包括工作、環境"},{"start":448.015,"end":455.596,"text":"案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案案件。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案件。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案案件。"},{"start":476.062,"end":477.751,"text":"好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝吳斯耀委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"151452","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151452","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453242934c16cf16828f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94f8442d53e673a3d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"10:46:23 - 10:51:01","影片長度":"00:04:38","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":278,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:51:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:46:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":510,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時46分）請吳次長。"],["主席：有請吳次長，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝。針對今天排定的地方制度法修正草案審查有關地方制度法第三十三條原住民地方議員保障的規定，我先講一下直轄市好了。一樣在第三十三條有關直轄市的規定裡面，像高雄市3個原民區都有選出區長，以前是鄉長，也有選出議員，所以高雄市議會目前有3個原民區的議員及1位平原的議員，這是高雄市的狀況。高雄市這個直轄市的人口超過200萬，議員總額不得超過62人，但是原住民議員是另外加上去的，而今天修法在討論縣市議員的部分。其實除了剛剛美惠委員提到有沒有跟這些縣市做溝通之外，我覺得我們也必須把現在縣市遇到的狀況拿出來討論一下。","我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須加以正視，就是第三十三條第二項的規定，縣市議員在人口1萬人以下，不得超過11人；20萬以下，不得超過19人，也就是總額19人；40萬以下，不得超過33人，可能次長腦中已經浮現哪一些縣市人口在40萬上下；80萬以下，不得超過43人。也就是說，如果現在的縣市人口有80萬，當2026年的人口已經少於80萬的時候，它的議員人數會從43人降到33人，請問次長，這樣的縣市有哪幾個？還是要請司長……"],["吳次長容輝：我先回答，等一下再請司長補充。"],["李委員柏毅：好。"],["吳次長容輝：現在大概有幾個縣市降得比較多，我講的就是屏東和臺東。"],["李委員柏毅：屏東和臺東。屏東會降幾席？"],["吳次長容輝：會降12席。"],["李委員柏毅：降12席？"],["吳次長容輝：一下子就降12席。"],["李委員柏毅：我先講，我過去在高雄市議會的時候，我們幾位原民區山原及平原的議員為地方真的爭取很多建設，為他們的族人爭取很多的福利，他們的問政都是非常優秀的，我們也會支持朝這個方向討論到底其他縣市的平原要不要用額外增加的方式，這個方向都是好的。但是遇到縣市議員是用總額來納的時候，請問我們是不是要修改這個總額，朝這個方向做總體的討論？我覺得這個是更必要的，必須一起討論。"],["吳次長容輝：對，如果今天要討論，這個要一起討論，否則的話，降的速度會非常快。"],["李委員柏毅：舉例，屏東會變成怎樣？"],["吳次長容輝：比如以屏東來講……"],["李委員柏毅：屏東如果真的降了11席……"],["吳次長容輝：12席。"],["李委員柏毅：12席，再增加平地原住民的人數，不是用外加的話，那個比例是不是整個會跑掉，臺東也是？"],["吳次長容輝：也一樣，所以我們為什麼會講，假設大家有共識的話，應該是外加而不是內含。"],["李委員柏毅：朝這個方向來做？"],["吳次長容輝：對，因為如果內含的話，會影響那個比例。"],["李委員柏毅：但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重，就是人口不到80萬跟人口不到40萬的縣市，一次掉了11席議員，一次掉了總額四分之一的議員，在地方的政治運作上，這個是非常大的問題，我希望內政部要把原住民的案子跟地方議員總額的案子一併做檢討。"],["吳次長容輝：我們希望緩降的方式，而不是一次就減了那麼多。"],["李委員柏毅：對，目前這個方案裡面沒有，所以我建議一致做討論及檢討，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員的質詢，謝謝次長的回應。","繼續我們請吳思瑤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.51096875,"end":7.371593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.09721875,"end":9.599093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.822218750000001,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.71034375,"end":33.173468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.81534375,"end":29.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.274718750000005,"end":36.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.15596875,"end":39.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.024718750000005,"end":52.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.23784375,"end":58.789718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.414093750000006,"end":61.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.945343750000006,"end":67.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.68284375,"end":74.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.87159375,"end":87.61221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.88221875,"end":89.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.58659375,"end":92.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.21471875,"end":95.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.96534375,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.58534375,"end":102.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.00221875000001,"end":103.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.52096875000001,"end":108.26721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.57096875,"end":116.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.48534375000001,"end":116.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.61596875000001,"end":121.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.17221875000001,"end":124.48409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.99034375000001,"end":126.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.16721875,"end":131.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.68971875,"end":133.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.42346875,"end":135.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.48659375,"end":137.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.59159375000002,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.14409375,"end":142.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.67534375,"end":143.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.12659375,"end":144.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.91971875000002,"end":148.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.95346875,"end":147.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.15534375000001,"end":157.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.97659375,"end":158.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.99346875,"end":169.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.01034375,"end":161.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.51909375000002,"end":191.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.84909375,"end":193.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.65471875,"end":196.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.04659375,"end":201.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.43409375000002,"end":203.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.38721875000002,"end":206.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.58096875,"end":214.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.96409375000002,"end":218.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.86221875,"end":216.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.03471875000002,"end":226.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.03784375,"end":233.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.52596875,"end":238.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.61034375000003,"end":235.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.63096875000002,"end":240.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.20846875,"end":265.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.79971875,"end":268.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.56721875,"end":273.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.35596875000005,"end":269.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.78159375,"end":273.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.80221875,"end":277.81034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.572,"end":7.074,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":15.002,"end":37.528,"text":"針對今天我們排定的這個地方制度法修正草案的這個審查有關地方制度法第三十三條原住民地方議員保障的規定那我先講一下直轄市好了一樣在33條的直轄市裡面像高雄市高雄市這個三個原民區都有選出區長以前鄉長"},{"start":40.309,"end":65.597,"text":"也有選出議員所以高雄市議會目前的狀況有三個原住民、原民區的議員還有一位平原的議員這是高雄市的狀況高雄市直轄市的議員總額在高雄市超過200萬不得超過62人但是他的原住民議員就是另外加上去的這個次長"},{"start":67.728,"end":92.042,"text":"但是我們現在今天的修法討論是在討論縣市的議員的部分那所以其實除了剛剛每位議員有提出有沒有跟這些縣市來做出這些溝通之外那我覺得我們也必須要把現在縣市遇到的狀況也必須要拿出來討論一下那我看到一個比較嚴重的問題必須要正式的就是說"},{"start":96.42,"end":106.65,"text":"第二條規定,縣市議員在人口1萬以下不得超過11人,20萬以下不得超過19人,40萬以下33人。"},{"start":118.277,"end":134.808,"text":"80萬以下不得超過43人。」也就是說如果現在的縣市有80萬那人口有80萬當他在2026的時候人口已經少於80萬的時候他的議員的人數會從43人降到33人請問次長這樣的縣市有哪幾個縣市還是要請"},{"start":148.181,"end":168.719,"text":"現在大概有幾個縣市會降比較多就是我講的這個屏東跟台東屏東跟台東屏東會降幾席會降12席降12席所以我們除了在處理這個今天我先講齁因為我過去在高雄市議會的時候我們幾位呃原民區的呃"},{"start":171.275,"end":191.42,"text":"三元跟平原的議員為地方爭取很多建設,為他們族人爭取很多福利,他們的問政都是非常優秀的。那我們也會支持說,朝這個方向來討論,到底其他縣市的平原我們要不要來增加,用額外增加的方式,這個方向也都是好的。"},{"start":191.98,"end":218.403,"text":"但是遇到縣市議員他是用總額來納的時候請問我們是不是要修改這個總額還是要朝這個方向來做整體的討論我覺得這個是更必要先必須要一起討論的東西對就是說如果現在討論這個要一起討論或者讓他降的速度會非常快舉例啦舉例屏東屏東如果真的降了11席再增加12席再增加平原"},{"start":219.224,"end":220.306,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":234.585,"end":251.605,"text":"朝這個方向來做因為如果內涵的話你會影響到區域但是其實另外一個問題更嚴重就是說人口不到八十萬跟人口不到四十萬一次吊了11席議員一次吊了四分之一的這個總額的議員這個在地方的"},{"start":252.145,"end":252.725,"text":"案案案案案案"}]}},{"id":"151451","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151451","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4450423264a642c372e51d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c9453aeae6a5651927f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"12:07:49 - 12:15:36","影片長度":"00:07:47","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":467,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:15:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:07:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":677,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（12時7分）請王部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，最近道交條例又再次修法，當然引起各界很多討論，而且這些討論還餘波蕩漾，本席今天想針對這個部分和部長討論幾件事情。如果回顧去年到現在，從臺灣的行人安全狀況受到國際媒體關注之後，我們很多討論都一直圍繞著怎麼記點、檢舉，怎麼提高罰則。尤其是在立法院的討論，很多時候都聚焦在這些末端管制的角度來處理問題，坦白說，本席認為這也是我們現在遇到左右為難問題的原因。","部長一定很清楚，如果從交通安全管理的角度來說，大家一直在說交通的三E，就是工程、教育、執法，我們剛才說的末端管制，就是執法端該怎麼執法的問題，一直以來，對工程端和教育端的討論比較少。在工程端，本席認為行政部門有在處理，包括去年行政綱領的4年400億元經費，包括前幾天剛三讀通過的……"],["王部長國材：行人安全設施條例。"],["洪委員申翰：行人安全設施條例就是在處理工程的問題。一直以來比較少處理的，其實就是教育的問題。部長，本席知道從駕駛者管理的角度來說，現在是靠幾個環節在處理，第一個是駕照的核發，然後以吊扣、吊銷來做管理。但本席想問部長，針對很多高風險的駕駛者，因為大家應該把焦點放在所謂的高風險駕駛者，去年剛開始修法的時候，大家認為要擴大記點，其實當時就有一個核心的想法，就是我們要怎麼淘汰、面對這些不良駕駛，當時是有這樣的念頭。","所以本席現在要問的問題是，針對這些高風險的駕駛者，也就是被吊扣或是吊銷駕照的駕駛者，交通部現在有什麼管理或是教育訓練機制？"],["王部長國材：當然，一般的有。另外就是道安講習，有些項目違規就是要參加，例如不停讓行人。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，你有參加過道安講習嗎？"],["王部長國材：年輕的時候。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，本席也參加過。你覺得參加道安講習前後，有沒有從中獲得更多收穫？"],["王部長國材：年輕的時候感覺去參加非常沒有面子，所以讓我更遵守法規，倒不是因為教育面，而是不想去參加道安講習。"],["洪委員申翰：所以這變成一種羞辱機制？"],["王部長國材：對，類似。"],["洪委員申翰：你覺得道安講習的重點是讓駕駛者覺得不好意思。是這樣嗎？"],["王部長國材：我是說我年輕時候的。"],["洪委員申翰：你現在是一個制度設計者。"],["王部長國材：現在不是。現在要有教育的科目。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，先請教你，本席知道去年交通部有預告交通安全規則的修法，針對高風險駕駛，包括吊銷、吊扣一年以上和一年以下，有做一些區分，去年底完成預告，目前進度如何？"],["林司長福山：道安規則預告完之後，最近部長有請我們重新再做調整，之前是針對現行七十五歲以下沒有換照的部分，爾後吊扣駕照一年以下，換六年的駕照，吊扣駕駛執照一年以上的部分，換三年有效……"],["洪委員申翰：所以我們用吊扣駕照一年以上和以下來區分，對不對？"],["林司長福山：對。"],["洪委員申翰：然後呢？"],["林司長福山：這次再加入檢討，以六年為週期，例如吊銷駕駛執照重新考領，只能領一年有效執照，也就是每年……"],["洪委員申翰：這個部分去年已經預告，接下來的進度如何安排？"],["林司長福山：我們現在正在重新調整道安規則的……"],["洪委員申翰：有沒有期程？"],["林司長福山：調整完之後，我們會重新預告，因為裡面……"],["洪委員申翰：什麼時候預告？"],["林司長福山：4月底之前我們會辦理預告。"],["洪委員申翰：司長，本席要告訴你們，其實這全部是一個完整的，為什麼大家針對記點會有這麼多爭論？當時就是覺得，對於高風險駕駛、違規的駕駛，或者是不良駕駛，你們要怎麼處理？就是用記點的做法。所以本席覺得，假設今天我們覺得記點不是最好的做法，有其瑕疵，那就要和大家說清楚，替代的做法是什麼。今天包括針對高風險駕駛的教育問題，包括剛才說的駕照換照問題，該說清楚的，我們都應該說清楚，也要告訴大家之後的期程。而不是今天不用記點以後，我們對高風險的駕駛就雙手一攤，重點是針對這些高風險的駕駛，我們要用什麼做法？這些做法還有沒有精進的空間？本席覺得這些都應該一併拿出來討論，這就是本席要表達的。所以對於剛才說的駕照或核發的相關修法，假如要重新預告，應該要讓大家知道什麼時候預告、內容是什麼，還有沒有哪些調整和精進的空間，這些都應該在這次修法的時候說清楚，這是第一點。","第二點，回到剛才部長說的道安講習，說實話，本席也參加過道安講習啦！基本上道安講習的內容就是叫你不要酒駕、不要違規，大概都是說這些事情。本席覺得部長可以發問卷問大家，參與過道安講習的人有沒有得到什麼新的收穫？本席告訴大家，道安講習連最近我們哪些法規新修正都無法從中得知啦！為什麼現在弄到很多人抱怨？因為很多人都是在法規修正以後，被處罰了才知道有什麼法規修正。部長，你覺得這樣OK嗎？"],["王部長國材：道安講習應該針對各種違規態樣做再教育。事實上這部分我們也和公路局談過，相關教材要不斷更新，如果有新的法規，內容也要不斷更新。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，本席覺得我們應該要明確要求，尤其是針對高風險駕駛，他就擔負起更多、更大的回訓責任，他們被教育的內容也應該更多。本席一直搞不清楚，為什麼我們沒有一個機制？甚至在這些講習裡面，也都不見你們要把道路法規的變更告訴駕駛，甚至是被處罰的人。為什麼到現在為止都沒有？"],["主席：趕快做簡短說明。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，為什麼沒有？"],["魏組長武盛：關於講師和教材，我們大概每季都會有這樣的檢核。"],["洪委員申翰：本席知道，但是到現在為止，包括去年修了什麼法，大家要多注意什麼事情，都沒有在道安講習裡面呈現，像這種教育內容的調整……"],["主席：請你們向洪委員說明。"],["王部長國材：我們再向……"],["洪委員申翰：一個月內提出新的道安講習內容的調整報告。部長，可以嗎？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["洪委員申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：現在請楊委員瓊瓔發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.7565937500000001,"end":1.4990937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.45659375,"end":3.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.92846875,"end":7.995968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.265968750000003,"end":19.454093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.84221875,"end":37.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.712843750000005,"end":46.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.48784375,"end":60.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.62909375,"end":75.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.96846875,"end":84.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.52409375,"end":94.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.64909375,"end":96.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.71659375,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.94721875,"end":118.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.13471875,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.81346875000001,"end":123.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.62346875,"end":124.48409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.72034375000001,"end":125.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.96909375000001,"end":126.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.07034375,"end":143.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.56971875000002,"end":149.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.33659375000002,"end":153.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.86346875,"end":159.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.73596875,"end":165.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.93846875,"end":160.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.20784375000002,"end":165.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.90346875,"end":168.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.13534375,"end":170.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.48534375,"end":171.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.76784375,"end":172.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":176.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.06659375,"end":179.86784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.11659375000002,"end":187.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.76159375,"end":185.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.54596875000001,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.24159375000002,"end":191.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.25846875000002,"end":193.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.32971875,"end":195.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.00034375,"end":202.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.13534375,"end":196.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.40909375,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.09221875,"end":209.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.79659375,"end":207.62721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.84221875,"end":209.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.41596875000002,"end":209.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.63534375,"end":210.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.79971875,"end":219.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.57471875000002,"end":224.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.68784375,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.59034375000002,"end":237.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.06971875000002,"end":250.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.27096875,"end":246.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.08471875,"end":253.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.91971875000002,"end":253.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.71284375000002,"end":254.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.01659375000003,"end":254.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.14721875,"end":255.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.77159375000002,"end":260.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.28971875,"end":266.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.40721875,"end":268.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.34346875,"end":282.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.02221875000004,"end":273.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.79784375,"end":279.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.07534375,"end":283.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.50971875,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.23909375,"end":288.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.74784375,"end":309.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.51846875,"end":344.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.85784375000003,"end":325.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.55096875000004,"end":348.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.03971875,"end":350.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.71034375000005,"end":353.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.43971875,"end":357.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.25784375,"end":360.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.20659375,"end":368.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.31096875000003,"end":371.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.19221875000005,"end":372.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.67721875,"end":375.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.85409375,"end":377.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.09846875000005,"end":385.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.08034375,"end":387.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.80159375000005,"end":389.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.15159375,"end":393.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.18034375,"end":399.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.56346875,"end":402.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.43221875,"end":428.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.01846875,"end":404.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.15346875,"end":404.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.37721875000005,"end":431.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.10284375000003,"end":431.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.99721875,"end":434.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.33034375000005,"end":433.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.60846875000004,"end":436.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.09784375000004,"end":436.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.16534375000003,"end":436.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.95846875,"end":437.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.54909375000005,"end":437.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.81909375000004,"end":444.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.19784375,"end":448.48409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.66971875,"end":464.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.11221875,"end":452.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.17971875,"end":452.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.97284375000004,"end":454.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.67284375,"end":457.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":461.05596875000003,"end":462.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.96284375000005,"end":464.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.64596875,"end":466.96221875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.005,"end":1.206,"text":"請王部長請部長"},{"start":9.258,"end":35.725,"text":"部長最近關於道交條例又再次的修法當然引起很多各界的討論其實這些討論也都還愚波蕩漾那我今天還是想針對這部分來跟部長來討論幾個事情就是說其實我們如果回顧去年到現在從一開始就是從台灣的這個所謂行人的安全的狀況得到受到國際媒體的關注之後"},{"start":37.825,"end":58.243,"text":"其實我覺得我們很多討論都一直圍繞著怎麼祭典、怎麼檢舉、怎麼提高罰則其實大概都很多尤其在立法院的討論裡面很多都聚焦在這些末端管制的角度來去處理問題坦白說我認為這也是我們現在遇到這個左右為難的問題之所在"},{"start":60.845,"end":74.392,"text":"我講部長一定很清楚知道如果我們從交通安全管理的角度來說的話大家一直在講到所謂交通的三一工程教育執法裡面我們剛才在講末端管制就是最後的這個一直都是這個執法端該怎麼執法的這個問題"},{"start":76.053,"end":102.548,"text":"但一直以來對於工程端跟教育端的討論比較少但工程端其實我認為行政部門是有處理的包括去年這個在我們這個行政綱領裡面這個四年四百億的經費包括前幾天剛三讀通過的這個行政安全設施條例裡面就是要去處理工程的問題但我們一直比較少處理的其實是所謂這個教育的問題"},{"start":103.991,"end":121.106,"text":"那部長我知道我們其實從駕駛者管理的角度來說現在大概靠幾個環節在處理第一個大概是駕照的核發然後後面大概有所謂吊扣吊銷來做管理但我這邊想問部長針對很多這些高風險的駕駛者"},{"start":122.907,"end":148.541,"text":"我想大家其實確實應該把我們的焦點放在所謂高風險的駕駛者其實一開始的時候我想那時候覺得說我們去年在修法覺得要擴大祭典其實有一個核心的想法是覺得說我們要怎麼淘汰或怎麼面對這些這個不良的駕駛其實有這個念頭所以我想問的問題是如果針對這些高風險的駕駛者也就是被吊扣或吊銷駕照的駕駛者"},{"start":150.382,"end":179.331,"text":"交通部現在有什麼管理或教育訓練的機制目前主要當然一般的這個有另外一個就是道安獎席是道安獎席就是說有些項目你回國以後就是參加比如說部長你有參加過道安獎席嗎年輕的時候部長我也參加過年輕的時候你覺得道安獎席參加完道安獎席參加完跟參加後你有沒有從這個道安獎席裡面獲得更多的收穫"},{"start":181.318,"end":208.99,"text":"年輕的時候是感覺去非常沒有面子讓我更遵守法規倒不是從教育面是不想去大安講習不想去大安所以這變成是一種羞辱機制喔對對是你覺得是大安講習重點是讓駕駛者覺得抱歉我在講我年輕我講我年輕的時候你講你年輕的時候現在不是那你現在是一個制度設計者啦現在要有教育的科目對對是這個"},{"start":211.371,"end":226.744,"text":"這個不然我先跟你問喔其實我知道去年交通部有公告有預告這個交通安全規則的修法針對高風險駕駛喔包括掉銷、掉扣一年以上、掉扣一年以下有做了一些區分喔那去年你完成預告那目前進度會怎樣"},{"start":227.642,"end":229.643,"text":"所以我們用吊扣駕照一年以上跟以下來區分嘛對不對然後呢"},{"start":255.234,"end":282.19,"text":"那這次再加入檢討就是說他要以一個六年的週期比如說吊銷駕駛執照重新考領只能領一年有效那這是每年每年那這個部分去年預告現在接下來進度會怎麼樣那我們現在正在重新調整這個道安規則的一個那有沒有期程那現在調整完之後我們會重新再做預告會重新再做預告那什麼時候會預告在這個4月底之前我們會來幫你預告那個"},{"start":284.591,"end":308.793,"text":"市長齁我要跟你們說其實這全部是一個完整的大家針對為什麼針對祭典的事情有這麼多的爭論當時就是覺得這些高風險的價值或者違規的價值或者是不良的價值你要怎麼樣去面對它其實用祭典的做法所以我覺得今天假設我們覺得祭典的做法不是最好的做法祭典做法有其瑕疵那我們要跟人家講清楚那我覺得替代性的做法是什麼"},{"start":309.594,"end":338.356,"text":"那今天包括針對高風險駕駛的這個教育的問題包括是剛剛講說駕照換照的這個問題該講清楚的我覺得我們應該講清楚包括後面的期程告訴大家我不是今天我不用祭典以後我對高風險的駕駛我就雙手一攤重點是我針對這些高風險駕駛我要用什麼做法包括這做法還有沒有精進的空間我覺得這都應該一併的拿出來討論這是我要說的所以對於剛剛說的這些駕照或者是核發這些相關的修法"},{"start":338.976,"end":350.888,"text":"假如要重新預告就讓大家知道我什麼時候預告我的內容是什麼東西還有沒有哪些調整跟經濟的空間都應該在這次修法的時候講清楚這是第一點我要講的第二點我要回到剛剛部長講道安講習我說實話我也參加過道安講習啦我參加過"},{"start":354.511,"end":377.081,"text":"但基本上道安講習的內容就是叫你什麼不要酒駕不要違規大家都講這些事情我覺得部長你可以下去你可以發個問卷問大家一下經過道安講習以後參與過道安講習的人有沒有得到什麼新的收穫我跟大家講道安講習裡面連最近我們哪些法規有新修都無法從上面得知啊"},{"start":378.177,"end":392.712,"text":"所以為什麽現在弄到很多人抱怨是很多人都是在法規修了以後你都是被處罰了以後你才知道有什麽法規修正不然你覺得這OK嗎是我想道遠獎型應該是針對比如說你各種違規的太陽"},{"start":394.249,"end":414.094,"text":"作為一個再教育,我想這部分事實上我也跟公務局談過,在這個相關的教材要不斷的更新,新的法規要不斷... 不然我覺得我們就應該明確的要求今天尤其針對高風險的價值,它就應該擔負起更多的更大的回訊的責任包括他可能要被教育的這個內容都應該更多"},{"start":414.754,"end":429.607,"text":"尤其是我們為什麼我都一直搞不清楚為什麼我們沒有一個機制甚至在這些講習裡面都不見你要把道路的法規的變更告訴我們的價值甚至是被被處罰的人為什麼到現在為止都沒有好"},{"start":430.367,"end":433.851,"text":"好,趕快做說明,檢討說明。為什麼沒有?公路局。但是我到現在為止,包括去年修了什麼法?"},{"start":448.829,"end":463.308,"text":"所以大家要多注意什麼事情都沒有在道安講習裡面能夠呈現像這種教育內容的調整好不好一個月一個月提出新的道安講習的內容調整的報告可以嗎一個月部長可以嗎謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151450","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151450","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445955b6014f40a641851d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c940cd442c3dfdba8065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:58:27 - 12:06:51","影片長度":"00:08:24","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":504,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:06:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:58:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":637,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時58分）主席謝謝。麻煩請交通部王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。直接向你請教，因為近期內本席也接獲滿多團體陳情，就是營業車和貨運車的部分，這些貨運車輛駕駛說到，可能疫情之後相關的保險，很多保險業者拒保，尤其是他們還想多投保一些相關險種，甚至的賠償的保險，保險公司都拒保，即便他們想要提高保費也沒有辦法。部長有沒有掌握到這樣的訊息？"],["王部長國材：這主要是保險公司和職業駕駛之間，它們認為他的風險很高，所以不接受他的一些額外加保部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：他們在路上行車，因為風險很高，可能造成相關的交通事故，卻發現他們沒有足夠的保險能夠理賠支應，對用路人而言，風險會不會更高？"],["王部長國材：會。這部分我們有在處理，但是保險是在於保險公司和個人，我們是期待有充足的保險，這樣對受害人比較有保障，但是這的確會造成……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們期待的，大家用路、上路都有投保一定程度的保險，如果真的發生交通事故，也可以有最基本的理賠或是保障，不管對開車者或用路人，其實都是一個幫助和保障。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：您剛才也提到，因為他們的風險高，就是因為他們的風險高，所以更應該要有保險，而不是讓他們四處趴趴走卻沒有保險。其實他們也很無奈，他們說他們想投保，但是找不到公司要讓他們保。"],["王部長國材：請副局長說明一下。"],["張副局長舜清：我們去年有幫貨運業者和產險公會協調，我們有開設一個平台。"],["洪委員孟楷：請你簡單說明一下。"],["張副局長舜清：基本上還是要回歸保險機制，高保費的部分，有些駕駛人沒有辦法負擔。目前我們大概已經把這樣的需求轉給金管會，金管會也同意，如果有碰到個案，可以透過我們這個溝通平台，他們會協助。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是就本席看起來，這不是個案，應該是通案，很多公會求助無門，可能你們這個平台真的沒有辦法解決問題，所以他們才又找委員陳情。這樣好不好？部長，我今天點出這個問題，本席知道這和金管會的業務也相關，我們可能會再由正式的陳情函，也會邀集公路局、路政司以及金管會開協調會，我們來找出一個可行的方案。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：回歸正題，就是今天討論的微罪不罰。真的，對用路人來說這很重要，你自己也提到，在交通部長任內，你最遺憾的是沒有辦法降低這樣的道安狀況。但是很多營業者也會覺得，其實不是罰太多，重點是記點制度有可能會剝奪他們的工作權。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為這樣的檢舉制度上路造成檢舉達人氾濫，部長，這部分有沒有數據？檢舉達人到底有多氾濫？不要笑，本席覺得這很重要。當然，因為開放檢舉，所以代表一般人都可以檢舉，只要有違規事實。其中有沒有什麼比例？例如20%、80%的法則，假如80%的檢舉量都來自20%的檢舉人，這樣有可能就是檢舉達人。還是前10名的檢舉人，一天檢舉100件、200件？本席覺得這可能就是職業檢舉人，因為不會那麼巧，在路上開車一直盯到有違規嘛！有沒有這樣的數字？"],["王部長國材：請警政署說明。"],["劉組長振安：這個部分我們並沒有單獨統計。但是警政署接到的，很多他檢舉了，覺得我們沒有舉發因不滿的，大概有二、三十位這樣的民眾時常寫部長信箱，包括交通部、內政部。這個部分如果要詳細的數量，我們要再請各縣市警察局統計。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們把問題拉回來。您是警政署交通組組長，是不是？"],["劉組長振安：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：組長，本席沒有辦法接受你這樣的說法。因為你們一直推說這個檢舉制度上路之後，檢舉達人氾濫，我們想要知道到底有多氾濫，你們應該要讓我們知道有多氾濫啊！例如你們應該說明前10名的檢舉量，每天檢舉300件、500件，我們合理懷疑地判斷他就是檢舉達人或檢舉魔人、職業檢舉人，所以要摒除這樣的狀況，結果你跟我講沒有這個數據，但是很氾濫。","你們就是用這樣的理由，半年前修的法，現在又要修正，改成微罪不罰，讓用路人覺得好不容易有曙光，希望能還給用路人一個乾淨的道路空間，突然間又變成是1,200元以下的項目。這樣不就變成你們根本沒有明確的理由讓我們今天進行討論，不是嗎？你們覺得真的是因為檢舉達人氾濫，還是臺灣的違規情況太嚴重？","本席覺得這兩者不同喔！檢舉達人氾濫是一個人一天檢舉200件、300件，這個叫氾濫。但如果是你們每天收到很多檢舉案，那叫臺灣違規情況太嚴重喔！可能有很多人看到違規的狀況，因為可以檢舉，所以他就檢舉，你們不能只因為檢舉量很多，就說很氾濫，本席覺得這是完全不同的。"],["劉組長振安：關於違規檢舉，112年869萬件裡面，60%是針對停車和違規停車，有很多是某些民眾的車開過去以後，因為有鏡頭……"],["洪委員孟楷：組長，你們沒有整理或沒有這個……你不能用形容詞，我們要就事論事，「很多」民眾，多少叫做「很多」？"],["主席：組長，整理好資料向洪孟楷委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：主席，你們等一下是不是要逐條審查？"],["主席：本席不會這樣做。"],["洪委員孟楷：今天沒有逐條審查？"],["主席：本席並沒有說今天就要逐條審查。我們都是以最嚴謹的態度處理，4月3日舉辦公聽會，今天進行詢答，經過討論之後，還會再找時間進行逐條審查。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席肯定主席這樣的態度啦！抱歉，最後30秒。5月1日重機族群要上街，還要包圍交通部。關於5月1日的交通起義，要爭取兩輪的權益，部長有沒有看到這樣的訊息？"],["王部長國材：有，我知道他們要來。還是一樣啦！包括他們要取消兩段式左轉、重機上國道，這些課題我們過去也談到，如果真的能說服說這樣對道路交通來說是安全的，我們當然會接受。但是過去也談到，直接取消兩段式左轉並不代表會更安全，重機上國道更是有非常多人反對，因為重機的行為和一般小汽車的行為不一樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席的發言時間到了。本席只是提醒你們，5月1日既然有這個遊行和抗議行動，你們一定要了解訴求。"],["王部長國材：了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席也希望你們至少要由比較高層級的主管官員接受，並且好好研議，好不好？既然有聽到這樣的聲音，各族群的權益都應該兼顧，以上，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。現在請洪申翰委員發言。在洪委員發言之前，我們先說明一下，道交條例修法都是以最嚴謹的態度進行，當然，特別條例也應該要這麼嚴謹，雖然小到像道交條例，但是它關係到民眾的生命安全、交通安全，所以我們都是先召開公聽會，今天再正式詢答，經過討論之後，讓交通部做相關法令的調整思考，之後再找時間進行逐條討論。我們不會在一天之內就很快的討論完畢，也沒有讓大家吃飯就要進行逐條審查而通過，我們都是持最嚴謹的態度。","請洪委員申翰發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.5372187500000001,"end":2.9334687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2.9334687500000003,"end":3.6759687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.72596875,"end":8.434718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.434718750000002,"end":25.360343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.44471875,"end":29.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.629718750000002,"end":34.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.94534375,"end":48.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.19221875,"end":58.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.95096875,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.03471875,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.30221875000001,"end":80.05221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.03971875,"end":79.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.76534375,"end":79.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.49096875000001,"end":81.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.16159375000001,"end":88.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.24096875000001,"end":117.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.74096875000001,"end":100.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":100.77471875,"end":100.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.96034375,"end":101.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.31846875000001,"end":104.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.60534375,"end":104.74034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.54846875000001,"end":124.53471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.28659375000001,"end":120.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.73721875000001,"end":127.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.32346875,"end":128.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.26846875000001,"end":128.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.14596875,"end":128.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.56784375,"end":128.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.95596875,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.76096875000002,"end":137.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.47784375,"end":152.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.82159375,"end":175.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.55534375000002,"end":155.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.15534375000001,"end":182.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.16284375,"end":182.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.29784375,"end":187.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.20409375,"end":205.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":205.85534375,"end":206.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.17596875,"end":206.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.88471875000002,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.66409375,"end":217.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.32159375,"end":221.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.35909375000003,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.21971875000003,"end":227.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.87721875000003,"end":247.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.58721875,"end":251.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.67096875000001,"end":252.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.81846875000002,"end":254.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.03346875000003,"end":261.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.20534375,"end":265.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.11596875000004,"end":269.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.13221875,"end":270.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.07721875000004,"end":283.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.44659375000003,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.63221875,"end":283.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.73346875000004,"end":283.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.83471875000004,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.90596875,"end":286.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.93971875,"end":287.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.69909375000003,"end":287.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.57096875,"end":299.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.23721875,"end":302.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.44346875,"end":319.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.42409375,"end":320.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.63471875000005,"end":321.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.71471875000003,"end":336.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.56909375000004,"end":338.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.48409375,"end":347.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.43659375000004,"end":348.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.41534375000003,"end":348.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.44909375000003,"end":348.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.46596875,"end":350.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.51659375,"end":348.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.92971875,"end":351.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.77346875,"end":355.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.86971875,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.74284375,"end":367.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.46721875000003,"end":377.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.74409375000005,"end":396.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.44596875,"end":396.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.91409375,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.96471875000003,"end":407.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":407.03909375,"end":411.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.00471875000005,"end":413.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":412.06784375,"end":412.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":414.12659375000004,"end":414.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":414.59909375,"end":416.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.56096875000003,"end":416.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":416.70846875,"end":420.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.94846875,"end":420.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.39971875000003,"end":431.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.66096875000005,"end":423.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.45721875000004,"end":441.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.88596875,"end":447.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.04534375000003,"end":449.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.83409375,"end":454.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.99784375,"end":462.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.65471875000003,"end":469.12221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.52721875000003,"end":473.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.91471875,"end":475.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.73721875,"end":480.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.29346875000005,"end":502.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":496.88159375000004,"end":497.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":497.13471875000005,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":501.70784375000005,"end":504.96471875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.578,"end":28.911,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請交通部王部長請王部長部長部長好直接跟您請教因為近期內本身也接獲到蠻多這個團體陳情其實有關於營業車跟貨運車這些貨運車輛他們有講到是說好像在疫情這個恢復之後可能是相關的這個保險的部分就他們就取消很多的這個保險業者就是給他們聚寶"},{"start":29.771,"end":45.187,"text":"尤其是說針對是說他們想要多投保一些相關的一個險甚至除了應該保的險以外的這一些這個什麼賠償的這些險啊部分就保險公司的巨保即便是他們想要提高相關的保費也沒有辦法"},{"start":45.788,"end":71.634,"text":"我講部長有沒有掌握到這樣的一個訊息對因為那個這主要是在保險公司跟這些職業駕駛他們認為他風險很高所以不接受他的一些但是如果說風險很高他開在路上然後因為風險高可能造成相關的交通事故那才發覺說他沒有足夠的保險能夠來去做理賠或去支應的話那會不會對於用路人的風險更高"},{"start":74.139,"end":99.273,"text":"會 這個我們有在處理但是他的確保險是在保險公司跟個人他們這個當然我們是期待是有充足的保險對受害人比較有保障就是應該我們期待的是大家用路上路都能夠有保一定程度的保險那如果真的發生交通事故的話也可以有最基本的理賠或是保障"},{"start":99.913,"end":116.916,"text":"這不管是對開車者不管是對用路者其實都是一個幫助跟保障那您剛也提到了就是說因為他們風險高那就是因為他們風險高所以更應該要有保險而不是說讓他們四處趴趴走但是沒有保險那他們也很無奈啊他們講說他們想保險但是找不到公司給他們保"},{"start":117.591,"end":138.87,"text":"那個我跟委員來說一下那個我們去年大概有幫這個婚業者跟這個所謂產選公會這邊開個平台那這個基本上他還是要回歸到這個保險的一個機制就是說高保費的部分他們因為有些這個價錢是沒有辦法負擔"},{"start":139.671,"end":163.171,"text":"那目前我們大概已經有把這樣的一個需求轉給金管會金管會那邊也同意說如果有碰到個案的部分那會可以透過我們那個這個溝通平台他們會來協助但本期看起來他不是個案他是通案因為是公會這邊直接很多的公會直接來找投注無門可能你這個平台他也真的沒有辦法解決問題才會又再來找委員這邊來懲解這樣好不好"},{"start":164.992,"end":186.878,"text":"部長我今天點出這個問題本身也知道是說這跟金管會也有相關業務我們可能會再由正式的這個陳秦涵然後也再交集我們不管是公路局、路政司以及金管會這邊來開協調會我們來找出一個可行的方案回歸到正題今天的這個違罪不罰的部分真的"},{"start":188.357,"end":212.921,"text":"對於用路人來講很重要你自己也提到了交通部長任內你最這個遺憾的是沒有辦法降低這樣子一個道案的一個狀況但是很多的營業者也會覺得是說他好像如果說罰太多其實不是罰太多重點是祭典的制度有可能會剝奪他的工作權那一直有推我想先講是說一直有講是說因為這樣的一個上路檢舉而造成檢舉達人氾濫部長有沒有數據檢舉達人到底有多氾濫"},{"start":219.486,"end":246.494,"text":"這不要笑啊我覺得這很重要譬如說我們所謂的檢舉當然開放檢舉就代表說一般人都可以檢舉那有違規事實就檢舉那有沒有說前幾的比例譬如說八十二十法則嘛百分之八十的檢舉量都是來自百分之二十的檢舉人那有可能這樣就檢舉達人啊還是說前十名的檢舉人他一天檢舉了一百件兩百件我就覺得說他可能就變成是職業檢舉人"},{"start":247.534,"end":266.135,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":266.375,"end":287.774,"text":"覺得我沒有舉發的這邊不滿的大部分大概有大概二三十個這樣的民眾時常在寫部長信箱也到交通部也到內政部那這個部分如果說要詳細的數量的話我們要再跟各縣市警察局做一個統計來拉回來您是這個警政組交通組組長嗎是不是是是是好"},{"start":288.314,"end":302.386,"text":"主長如果說你這樣講話本席就沒有辦法接受因為你們一直推說我這個檢舉的制度上路之後檢舉達人泛濫那我們想要知道說到底多泛濫你應該要讓我們知道說多泛濫啊"},{"start":303.507,"end":320.243,"text":"你應該講是說我前10名的檢舉量每天檢舉300件檢舉500件那我們合理懷疑判斷他就是檢舉達人或是檢舉魔人職業檢舉人所以要秉除這樣的狀況但你跟我講沒有沒有這個數據啊但是很氾濫啊那"},{"start":322.762,"end":346.187,"text":"我們就用這樣的理由去講說好我們半年前修的法然後我們現在再把它給修然後違罪不罰那又讓用路人覺得說好不容易有一點數光了好不容易真的我們希望還給用路人乾淨的一個道路空間又突然間又一千二那這樣子不就是變成是說你根本沒有一個明確的理由讓我們今天來做一個討論嗎"},{"start":347.876,"end":352.831,"text":"報告委員不是嗎?還是你覺得說真的是檢舉達人氾濫還是真的是台灣違規太嚴重?"},{"start":356.906,"end":377.525,"text":"我覺得這兩者不同喔!檢舉達人泛濫是一個人檢舉一天200件、300件這個叫泛濫但如果說你說每天收到很多的檢舉量那叫台灣違規太嚴重喔!可能很多人看到違規我就因為可以檢舉我就來檢舉那你不能講說因為你檢舉量很多所以你就說啊這樣子泛濫我覺得這完全是不同的"},{"start":377.785,"end":406.779,"text":"我們把那個違規檢舉的以一百一十二年八百六十九萬件裡面有百分之六十是針對停車跟違規停車那這一些的部分有很多都是某一些民眾就車子一開過去之後阿就一個盡頭來啦組長你沒有這個整理或說你根本沒有這個你不能用形容詞我覺得咱就事論事很多民眾是多少叫很多"},{"start":407.059,"end":433.852,"text":"好那個組長整理好資料向侯孟楷委員來做報告真的啦你們等一下是不是主席你們等一下要逐條審查我不會這樣做你今天沒有逐條審查我沒有說今天就要逐條審查你今天沒有要逐條我們都是以最嚴謹的態度在4月3號舉辦公聽會然後今天進行詢答然後經過討論之後還會再找時間來做逐條好我肯定主席這樣的一個態度啦"},{"start":434.372,"end":462.301,"text":"那最後、抱歉三十秒五月一號說重機族群他們要上街還要包圍交通部說五月一號交通起義要爭取兩輪的權益部長有沒有看到這樣的訊息有我知道他們要來那過去就是機車我還是一樣就是說包括他們要取消兩段式的走轉重機上國道我想這個課題在我們過去也談到就是說如果"},{"start":463.857,"end":488.786,"text":"這能說服上是安全的對道路安全的我們當然會接受但是在過去談到直接兩段式左轉取消並不是代表更安全那上國道更是有非常多人反對比如說這個重機的行為跟一般小汽車行為部長本期時間已經到了我只是提醒就5月1號既然又有這個遊行跟這個抗議那訴求一定要了解並且"},{"start":489.386,"end":504.332,"text":"我也希望說至少你要有比較高層級的主管官員能夠來接受那並且好好的研議好不好我覺得這一個部分既然有看到各族群的權益都應該要兼顧以上謝謝謝謝謝謝侯孟楷委員"}]}},{"id":"151449","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151449","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44580f6c657de6193a851d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c943c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"11:49:45 - 11:58:14","影片長度":"00:08:29","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":509,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:58:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:49:45+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":617,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（11時49分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請部長和林福山司長。"],["王部長國材：林委員好。"],["林委員國成：好。前幾天我們又看到行人地獄，有桃園婦女在斑馬線被撞，司長是否了解這件事？"],["王部長國材：我嗎？部長還是司長？"],["林委員國成：司長。"],["林司長福山：在新聞報導中有看到這個案子。"],["林委員國成：道交條例如何修改，說實在我們真的是左右為難，為了駕駛人的生計，但是對用路人來說卻會有所恐懼。也就是說，不管是微罪不舉、不記點，或者記點，如果記點，駕駛人認為他的生活會面臨困境，記點對他們有所不公。可是對用路人來說卻相反，如果取消記點，用路人又會面臨危險，所以這是左右為難。對主管機關交通部來說，確確實實你們現在面臨的處境，本席或多數立委也認為你們是左右為難。"],["林司長福山：是的。"],["林委員國成：但是話再說回來，我們為什麼不回頭想一想，為什麼我們要這麼匆促的修法？這也是值得我們探討的。一部法在制定之前有沒有做完整規劃？如果要做處分，你們有沒有想到後果？這也是今天修這個法左右為難的原因，各說各有理，公說公有理、婆說婆有理，但事實上主管機關面臨一個問題，就是長治久安的交通罰則。","所以本席建議部長，因為本席一向覺得你是比較理性的部長，不管未來任何人接任部長，本席認為修法時真的要做長期規劃、評估，之後再進行修法，不要今天修法，明天改法，回頭又來修法，老百姓會無所適從，這一點，本席要代替的是，不管是司機朋友或是用路人，說實在的，這樣會產生一個問題，雖然修法了，也只是讓這些爭議稍微停止而已，但雙方都得不到公平、公正的法規以遵循。"],["王部長國材：是的。"],["林委員國成：針對本席提出的這些意見，你們有沒有檢討過為什麼會這樣？請部長回答。"],["王部長國材：剛才第一張照片談到人行道不停讓行人，這個部分我們絕對不會放鬆，民眾可以檢舉，還包括記點3點、罰6,000元及參加道安講習，這部分完全沒有討論的餘地。說實在的，去年這時候在立法院修法，我的確支持嚴格執法，當時也覺得行人地獄要趕快消除，因此當時很多的提案，我們很多都接受，也有很多沒有接受。但是去年實施以後，包括駕駛團體，事實上民間也反映，很多委員辦公室也有反映，這樣造成民眾生活上很多不便，另外就是檢舉達人變得非常浮濫。剛才委員也說到我的心聲，就是這個平衡點非常難抓，我發覺我在抓哪一個地方，另外一方都不滿意，所以我認為這次要很清楚的把它寫出來。我們是按照道路交通管理處罰條例及裁罰細則的規定，把罰款1,200元以下的項目視為微罪，我們是用這個來談。","當然每一個項目，我們也期待這次在立法院各位委員，我們大家一起集思廣益，討論出一個比較好的平衡點，以1,200元的這件事，我要找到一個法源，所以才會用這樣的方式，但我覺得項目的確可以討論。"],["林委員國成：本席一直特別提醒林司長，問題是修法沒有，那麼頻繁，你們修法以後，還要讓大家有一段時間適應、遵守、宣導，可是你們的宣導確實做得不夠，交通部想到什麼就改什麼，接收什麼樣的陳情，你們就馬上改法條，改來改去。說實在的，除了新法規要推行，做任何事情交通部本來就應該，要做初級的評估、規劃等等，但是你們修法時卻沒有這樣的步驟。","所以本席要建議林司長，關於這個部分，真的要修一部法，可以修，不是不能修，但是後果是什麼？你們要做好修法評估以來再來做。現在就是這樣，這些法條當中，行人和駕駛人產生對立，他們講的有理由，行人也有理由，所以今天才會變得很矛盾。本席還是要特別建議交通部，修什麼法，你們都應該評估以後再去做。","最後，說實在的，現在的道路設計，以臺北為例，例如臨停，因為紅線一大堆，占了99%，但是你們也沒有重新規劃。假設微罪不舉， 1,200元以下的臨停，現在駕駛人為什麼會被吊銷執照？就是因為臨停而起，所以大家會產生一個錯覺，闖紅燈、酒駕當然一定要記點、處分，但是微罪不舉的臨停部分呢？本席告訴你，像臺北市、六都，現在就是設計不良嘛！這些有沒有可能，林司長要從長規劃，就地方政府，你是不是有一個讓人可以妥善臨停的地方？包括修法，要推行任何政策時如果做到這一點，本席認為修法就不會有這麼大的爭議，也不會搞到現在，立法委員這樣不對、那樣也不對，而且我們會很為難，為什麼？就是你們的規劃和說明、輔導都講不清楚。所以本席建議，駕駛人和用路人的教育要多加強，要讓大家都了解，這樣以後修法就不會有疑慮，好不好？謝謝。"],["王部長國材：是。好，謝謝林委員。"],["主席：謝謝，林國成委員發言完畢。現在請洪委員孟楷發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.16159375,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.03471875,"end":3.0515937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.0515937500000003,"end":3.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.15284375,"end":5.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.40096875,"end":9.970343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.82284375,"end":9.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.08846875,"end":10.324718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.324718750000002,"end":10.341593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.067218750000002,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.084093750000001,"end":11.286593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.699718750000002,"end":16.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.58534375,"end":20.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.32721875,"end":22.407218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.16659375,"end":24.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.00596875,"end":25.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.79909375,"end":26.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.63846875,"end":29.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.422843750000002,"end":31.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.127218750000004,"end":32.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.21159375,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.03846875,"end":33.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.15659375,"end":33.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.78096875,"end":33.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.79784375,"end":34.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.84846875,"end":37.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.37096875,"end":40.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.59846875,"end":41.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.60659375,"end":44.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.260343750000004,"end":49.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.774093750000006,"end":51.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.44471875,"end":52.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.28846875,"end":54.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.58346875,"end":56.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.203468750000006,"end":58.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.907843750000005,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.76409375,"end":62.265968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.65409375,"end":64.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.93221875,"end":66.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.85596875,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.08784375,"end":71.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.03659375000001,"end":73.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.43721875,"end":74.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.73659375000001,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.18784375,"end":79.39409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.33909375,"end":80.69346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.89596875000001,"end":81.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.16159375000001,"end":82.80284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.84909375000001,"end":85.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.99221875,"end":86.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.17346875000001,"end":89.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.66659375,"end":98.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.55596875,"end":96.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.20534375000001,"end":101.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.87159375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.64721875000001,"end":110.61284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.22034375000001,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.07221875,"end":115.89471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.51909375000001,"end":117.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.13909375,"end":119.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.80971875,"end":120.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.46346875,"end":122.81346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.39971875,"end":124.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.76221875,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.39471875,"end":134.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.08159375,"end":162.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.77346875,"end":164.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.88284375,"end":170.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":172.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.52721875,"end":186.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.97221875000002,"end":221.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.54909375000003,"end":224.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.46846875000003,"end":230.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.84721875000002,"end":238.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.94721875000002,"end":246.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.40159375000002,"end":254.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.43409375000002,"end":259.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.97346875,"end":260.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.41221875,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.50409375000004,"end":268.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.30534375,"end":275.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.92034375000003,"end":285.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.66596875,"end":284.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.72471875,"end":289.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.14596875,"end":294.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.17471875,"end":299.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.84909375,"end":301.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.22846875000005,"end":309.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.87284375,"end":314.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.69909375000003,"end":321.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.83721875000003,"end":326.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.83221875000004,"end":326.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.95034375,"end":327.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.00096875,"end":327.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.62534375,"end":333.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.81846875,"end":343.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.26409375000003,"end":350.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.36096875000004,"end":345.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.33471875000004,"end":360.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.85221875,"end":361.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.32034375,"end":410.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.27034375000005,"end":413.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.82284375,"end":415.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.01659375,"end":418.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.88534375,"end":421.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.22659375,"end":488.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.52846875000006,"end":490.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.29596875000004,"end":493.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.04659375000006,"end":504.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.74971875000006,"end":503.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.08721875000003,"end":505.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.16284375000004,"end":506.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.17971875,"end":506.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.29784375,"end":508.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.89659375,"end":508.96409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.189,"end":26.065,"text":"好謝謝主席請部長跟林市長請部長還有市長林府山市長林委員好好那前幾天啊那個市長前幾天又看到行人地獄桃園的婦女啊在斑馬縣那個撞被撞"},{"start":27.999,"end":43.31,"text":"市長有沒有了解這個事在斑馬縣我嗎?部長還是市長?市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長"},{"start":55.626,"end":81.048,"text":"那你修改為了駕駛人他的生計但是在整個用路人的當中他會游手恐懼也就是不管你為罪不及的不記點或者記點那記點駕駛人會覺得他生活面臨的困境那你記點"},{"start":84.028,"end":112.412,"text":"對他們有所不公可是用路人他相反的你把他取消他認為他的用路人面臨的危險所以這是左右為難基本上對於我們主管機關交通部切切實實你們現在的處境本席還是多數的立委也認為你們面臨的是左右為難但是話再說回來"},{"start":114.144,"end":121.899,"text":"我們為什麼不回來一下我們想一想為什麼我們在消化為什麼這麼充足為什麼"},{"start":126.826,"end":145.182,"text":"所以這個是值得我們探討一個華下去你有沒有完全的規劃那一個華要做處分你有沒有去想到他的後果所以因而今天我們在修這個華會左右為難"},{"start":146.423,"end":169.828,"text":"各說各有理公說公有理婆說婆有理那事實上來講我們主管機關是應該要面臨一個問題就是長治久安的交通罰則所以我們會面臨這些我還是建議部長因為我一向對你是比較理性的部長"},{"start":170.808,"end":185.733,"text":"所以不管不管未來任何人接部長我認為在修法真的要長期規劃評估再來做修法的執行不要東今天"},{"start":187.048,"end":208.065,"text":"今天修法明天改法那回來又來修法這其實對老百姓無從事事這一點我要代替不管是司機朋友不管是用路人我們說實在他們會產生變成修法雖然修法但是只有"},{"start":209.066,"end":229.218,"text":"這些爭議稍微停止而已但是雙方都得不到一個非常公平公正的這些一個法規的遵循所以我還是建議部長啊針對本席提出這些你們有沒有檢討一下為什麼會這樣來柏定"},{"start":231.22,"end":232.241,"text":"《道路交通管理處》"},{"start":247.463,"end":275.099,"text":"那的確說在去年這時候在立法院的修法裡面我都支持很嚴格的執法我當時覺得行人第一就是要趕快消除所以我也非常支持所以當時的提案我們有很多都接受但是有很多沒有接受但是的確在去年實施以後不管駕駛團體事實上民間也反映了很多委員辦公室也都反映到"},{"start":275.879,"end":277.721,"text":"我發現我在抓哪一個地方都不滿意。我在那邊都不滿意。"},{"start":295.299,"end":313.914,"text":"所以我才想說這一次我們把它很清楚把它寫出來我們是按照處罰條例裡面還有參考細則裡面一千兩百元當作一個違罪我們用這個東西來談那當然每一個項目這個我也期待說這一次在立法院各委員有一個更我們大家"},{"start":315.095,"end":341.289,"text":"即時廣義彈出一個比較好的平衡點那的確抓一千兩百元這件事我是在我要找到一個法源所以我現在就用這樣的方式我是覺得項目的確是可以討論好那其實部長跟市長啊我一直在跟林市長啊特別提醒問題是修法沒有那麼頻繁你要修了以後是要讓人家一段時間去適應、遵守"},{"start":344.392,"end":359.839,"text":"宣導可是我們宣導確實是做得不夠喔我們交通部想到什麼就改什麼想到接受什麼陳情你們就馬上改法條這改來改去啊說實在除了新的法規"},{"start":360.959,"end":386.708,"text":"要去推行那推行你要我們做任何事情你們交通部本來就是這樣啊要初級的評估規劃等等這些但是你們在修法是沒有這個步驟所以我要建議林司長在這個部分真的要修一個法可以修不是不能修而是他的後果是什麼要做好一個修法評估以後再來做"},{"start":387.208,"end":409.838,"text":"所以現在就這樣啊這些法條當中就是行人跟駕駛人產生對立啊所以他們講的也有理由行人也有理由所以變成今天會很矛盾很矛盾的所以這個部分我還是要建議我們部裡面特別特別修什麼法要做評估以後再來做最後一個我們說實在的"},{"start":412.315,"end":433.615,"text":"道路設計到現在我幾例台北市你說好林亭也好紅線一大堆百分之九十九但是你也沒有去做規劃那如果假設你這個要為罪不及一千二以後的林亭現在為什麼會被吊銷是林亭而起"},{"start":434.255,"end":462.851,"text":"那大家產生臭結就是喔闖紅燈這些闖紅燈酒駕這當然一定要祭典當然一定要處分啊但是違罪不舉的林庭部分我跟你講本來像台北市像六都現在就是設計不良嘛那這些有沒有可能就是林市長這裡你要從長規劃地方政府你是不是有一個頭上的讓人家有一個林庭的地方"},{"start":463.571,"end":487.266,"text":"這等等東西就包括要修法要做任何政策的推行的時候你如果去做到這一點我認為修法就不會爭議這麼大欸搞到現在立法委員這樣也不對那樣也不對所以我們會很為難那為難為什麼就是你們的規劃跟你們的說明跟你們的輔導是講不清楚嘛所以我還是認為我建議啦這個"},{"start":492.269,"end":504.658,"text":"這個駕駛人跟用路人這裡的教育要多加一教育讓大家多了解這樣的話以後修法就不會有疑慮好不好好謝謝謝謝謝謝林國成委員翻完"}]}},{"id":"151448","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151448","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44599454a9400e8c13451d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94befde21dfa2b36bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"11:44:49 - 11:49:28","影片長度":"00:04:39","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":279,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:49:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:44:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":604,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（11時44分）有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長好。我們還是期望交通部修法的時候，不要再走回頭路，高風險違規行為記點，本席認為還是要持續進行。當初違規記點本來就是期待導正駕駛人的行為，部長也非常清楚，這不只是為了罰而罰，而是希望導正，除了被罰款以外，還有記點的話，希望可以修正他的行為。","關於逕行舉發記點，本席認為交通部反反覆覆。6月30日道路交通管理處罰條例修正公布，其中包含13項民眾檢舉和通盤檢討違規記點制度，可是在這個時間點，本席認為一個是缺乏溝通，反而造成人民在生存和生命之間產生對立。3月7日提的是逕行舉發和民眾檢舉舉發不予記點，理由是因為擔心冒名頂替、違規記點黃牛和案件量太大。可是公路局11月也開發稽核程式，防堵交通部擔心的理由，你們花了錢要去解決這個問題，現在又說這個不要做。如果當初修法的理由是擔心這件事情，你們也開發了一些防堵程式，為什麼又還是覺得這部分不要做？本席認為這樣不僅浪費公帑，也讓我們的公民團體陷入生命和生存間的爭論。","關於舉發，國內的違規逕行舉發大概占七成，加上民眾檢舉，大概超過八成。可是高風險的違規行為，每年約百萬件，而且呈現穩定上升趨勢，例如嚴重超速、闖紅燈，就本席來看，這對我們的生命傷害是很大的。重大違規重複率本來就高，而且它的傷害也大，更何況這兩到三年來，違規再犯人數比預期還要高。所以重大違規累犯者，像兩年內闖紅燈四次以上，發生交通事故的風險是違規一次的兩到三倍，這都是道安會的數據資料。你們充分掌握數據資料，卻沒有依據，反而還要把它拿掉。在國內違規風險的分級表當中，這也是你們的資料，造成致死模式、發生事故的樣態，包括超速、無照、酒駕，以及違規停車、闖紅燈，本席剛才也提過，闖紅燈、嚴重超速都是我們很擔憂的違規項目。如果修法通過，這類高風險行為不再逕行舉發、記點，可能難以遏阻這樣的危險駕駛人！","所以本席主張，重大違規項目（如闖紅燈、嚴重超速）應維持逕行舉發記點的規定。更重要的是就臨時停車區域要提出具體規劃期程、充實交通助理員人力。針對剛才說的那10項，可針對特定地點或時段，而非完全排除記點。還有，對於低風險行為項目，在交通環境改善前，也應有明確配套措施。"],["王部長國材：這次我們在討論的時候，包括剛才談到的記點，記點制度我是支持的，只是它的確因為科技執法或是民眾檢舉，沒辦法找到真正的駕駛者，所以有產生一些亂象。委員提出的這個部分，我們在條例審查時可以討論。"],["林委員月琴：尤其是闖紅燈和嚴重超速，本席認為真的要……否則的話，還是會讓生命消失，本席覺得這樣不可取啦！"],["王部長國材：我覺得這個可以討論。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，林月琴委員發言完畢。請林委員國成發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.85784375,"end":2.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.86596875,"end":3.6253437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.523468750000001,"end":8.164718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.67096875,"end":15.015968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.57284375,"end":39.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.60721875,"end":39.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.17659375,"end":53.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.87909375,"end":58.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.127218750000004,"end":61.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.20284375000001,"end":62.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.41346875000001,"end":72.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.66096875000001,"end":76.64346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.11596875000001,"end":88.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.77659375,"end":101.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.56784375000001,"end":107.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.77784375,"end":111.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.52409375,"end":114.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.71346875,"end":116.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.75096875000001,"end":125.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.96909375000001,"end":135.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.65096875,"end":141.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.32534375,"end":151.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.60221875000002,"end":176.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.01596875,"end":182.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.32721875000001,"end":203.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.76284375,"end":211.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.06534375,"end":240.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.07346875000002,"end":244.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.58346875,"end":245.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.86596875,"end":250.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.50659375,"end":254.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.80971875000003,"end":256.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.54784375,"end":262.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.56784375,"end":267.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.45346875,"end":271.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.97159375,"end":273.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.72659375,"end":277.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.35909375,"end":278.43471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.285,"end":3.686,"text":"有請我們的部長請部長部長好還是期望江部在修法的時候不要再走回頭路因為高風險違規的行為祭典我認為還是要持續進行來下一頁因為當初違規祭典本來就是期待導正我們駕駛人的行為"},{"start":27.077,"end":46.763,"text":"那我想部長也非常的清楚不是只是為了罰而是希望導正透過他除了被罰款以外還有有祭典的話可以去修正他的行為下一頁那所以針對進行舉發祭典我認為交通部反反覆覆因為從6月30號針對於這個所謂的處罰條例裡邊修正公佈報案13項"},{"start":53.922,"end":74.922,"text":"民眾檢舉跟通盤檢討的違規祭典制度然後可是這這樣的時間點我認為一個是缺乏溝通然後反而造成是人民在生存跟生命之間反而是產生一個對立那當時講的說持像3月7號提的是說要把進行舉發跟民眾檢舉舉發不予祭典"},{"start":77.185,"end":101.063,"text":"理由是因為擔心冒名頂替跟違規祭典黃牛跟案件量太大可是公路總局在11月也開發了這樣的機合的一個程式來防堵我們交通部擔心的理由你花了錢要去解決這問題然後現在又說欸這個不要做如果當初擔心修法理由是說擔心這件事情那你也開發了一些"},{"start":101.904,"end":130.046,"text":"來防堵的那樣子的一個程式那為什麼又還是覺得這些不要做那我認為這樣子的話不僅浪費工堂也限我們的公民團體在生命生存當中產生這樣的一個爭論下一那國內舉發大概整個違規進行舉發大概佔七成加上民眾檢舉的大概超過八成那下一頁那可是高風險違規行為每一年約百萬件"},{"start":130.848,"end":140.771,"text":"而且呈現穩定上升趨勢嚴重超速闖紅燈這個本來就是對我本席來看就是他"},{"start":141.739,"end":161.904,"text":"對於我們的生命傷害事實上是大的。來下一頁。所以重大違規重複率本來就高。就是說他本來傷害就大結果重複率又高。二到三年這些違規再犯的人數事實上是比預期的超過的還要高。下一頁。所以重大違規累犯者像兩年內闖紅燈四次以上者"},{"start":162.304,"end":190.598,"text":"他發生交通事故的風險是一次的兩到三倍這個都是道安會的數據資料那就說你們充分有掌握數據資料的時候反而沒有依據反而還要把它拿掉所以國內違規風險的這個分級表當中這也是你們的資料也就是說告造成致死的模式的發生事故的樣態最為超速無照酒駕嗎"},{"start":191.438,"end":214.43,"text":"草數還有違規停車跟闖紅燈那前面我剛剛提過所謂闖紅燈說嚴重草數這都是我們很擔憂的一些議題如果修法通過這類高風險行為應該是就不會再透過那個禁舉的祭典可是難以嚇阻這樣子的危險駕駛人下一頁所以我這邊主張重大違規項目像闖紅燈跟嚴重草數應該維持"},{"start":219.042,"end":243.968,"text":"我們的禁止的祭典的規定。然後當然更重要的是還有就是你的臨時停車的區域提出一些具體的期證。它充施交通人、助理員。那是不是針對於某一些剛剛那講實相可不可以針對特定地點跟時段還是不要完全排除祭典。還有對低風險的行為項目在交通改善前也應該有明確的配套措施。"},{"start":246.659,"end":273.189,"text":"我是覺得這次的確我們在討論中這個包括剛才談到這個祭典祭典這是我是支持的只是說他的確因為科技植物是民眾捲舉沒辦法真正找到那個駕駛者所以有產生一些亂象我想委員這部分我想在在條例審查我們來討論尤其事實上是闖紅燈跟嚴重超速我認為真的要否則的話還是讓生命"},{"start":274.47,"end":276.852,"text":"消失我覺得這不可取啦 這個可以討論我覺得可以討論"}]}},{"id":"151447","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151447","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44537d549ecea941f3851d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94440e68855abdbf165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"11:38:38 - 11:44:31","影片長度":"00:05:53","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":353,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:44:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:38:38+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":570,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時38分）謝謝主席，我想要請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：王部長早。","我突然想到你有些事情忘了跟未來的李部長交接，上次預算協商的時候，你答應我要對彰化高鐵跟臺中高鐵列車門加裝護欄，好像還沒有裝，是不是？上次預算協商的時候，你有答應我，這有沒有交接下去？"],["王部長國材：我有告知臺灣高鐵公司。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他上次是說列車要更換……"],["王部長國材：月台門嗎？"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，裝設月台門，列車要更換。前陣子也有發生乘客在月台要搶上車，跟高鐵的警衛發生衝撞。未來這些事情，代表不管在臺中或者是在彰化高鐵，都需要再加強。我們是不是可以請觀光署的周署長，我剛剛看到他有來，尤其最近有在討論好像彰化高鐵的營運不彰，可是我認為目前大家對於彰化高鐵的使用率是很高的，請觀光署報告一下關於彰化周邊的觀光規劃，是不是能夠讓高鐵的使用率再增加？甚至是假日的時候，高鐵是不是要增加班次？這些都需要再進一步溝通，對不對？"],["周署長永暉：高鐵彰化站聯外交通的方便性應該要提高啦！因為高鐵本身有一些聯外巴士，我們希望把田中變成一個hub，所以現在正在規劃田中支線，未來的重點就是針對景點的聯繫，因為現在大部分的旅客都是從高鐵臺中站往南走。要帶動這個部分，一方面需要臺鐵的系統，二方面是高鐵系統的連結線，把田中當hub之後，就可以帶動彰化地區的觀光，甚至是到南投的集集線，這樣才能夠串接起來。","相關的食宿遊購行，我們是把它當作中區旅遊，做一些景點的串接。確實，高鐵彰化站現階段只有幾個比較重要的台灣好行路線，或是客運的連結，所以我們也希望暑假時，他們能特別增加一些班次。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好的。麻煩王部長，你過去答應本席的事情要記得。"],["王部長國材：對，我現在想起來了，當時因為要先採購12列新列車，他們認為列車門的位置要怎麼樣，這個部分我會交接下去。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，還是應該要做，而且你和李部長應該可以溝通嘛！是不是？"],["王部長國材：是的。田中支線現在正在進行中啦！這應該是整個彰化站最重要的建設，因為它聯外交通不方便，怎麼和鐵路之間，以及和集集支線做一些串連，這是它的重點。"],["謝委員衣鳯：剛才你也有說到，10項輕微的違規項目不開放檢舉，那記點的部分呢？"],["王部長國材：對，就是不開放檢舉，也不記點。我們目前……"],["謝委員衣鳯：記點的部分是全部都沒有嗎？是微罪不記點，還是全部都不記點？"],["王部長國材：就是微罪不接受檢舉，也不記點，大概是這樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：就是微罪的部分，兩個都不要了，是不是？"],["王部長國材：對。例如這10項處理完以後，就不接受民眾檢舉，未來縱然是警察開單也不記點，大概是這樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以也不記點？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：本席上次也有提到，希望你能夠交接下去，就是關於道路交通安全基本法，伸港的那個路口，你說要請運研所把每個路口的標線、相關標誌，對不同態樣做一個統合處理，然後提供態樣給各縣市政府做相關規劃，這個部分你有交辦下去嗎？"],["王部長國材：這部分有在進行。過去標誌標線號誌設置規則是比較固定式的，現在變成要做整體性，運研所已經做一個道路交通標誌標線號誌設置規則的指引，包括範例，這部分現在在進……"],["林所長繼國：上次有向委員報告，部長也有特別指示，我們計畫3個月內先出版第一個階段的指引，供各地方政府參考、運用。"],["謝委員衣鳯：現在離我們上次質詢多久了？"],["林所長繼國：因為我們那個計畫有發布、招標的程序，現在計畫執行的時程設計就是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：應該是520之前就要提出吧！是不是？不能等到520之後吧？"],["林所長繼國：我們儘量朝這個目標努力，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：第一階段的成果已經出來了，趕快發布給地方政府參考。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好的，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請鄭天財委員發言，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","請林委員月琴發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":3.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3.40596875,"end":4.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9.227843750000002,"end":10.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.34596875,"end":10.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.57346875,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.723468750000002,"end":31.317218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.195343750000003,"end":28.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.92096875,"end":28.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.90784375,"end":35.080343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":32.025968750000004,"end":33.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":34.979093750000004,"end":35.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.071593750000005,"end":37.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.76346875,"end":41.931593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.92721875,"end":43.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.87221875,"end":74.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":48.59721875,"end":49.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.992218750000006,"end":59.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.70284375,"end":109.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":75.24284375,"end":75.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.04284375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.74784375,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.56909375000001,"end":126.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.86346875000001,"end":127.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.20096875,"end":130.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.62659375,"end":131.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.03159375,"end":133.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.05221875,"end":138.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.10221875000002,"end":138.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.13596875000002,"end":138.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.37221875,"end":140.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.00471875,"end":144.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.93659375000001,"end":145.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.29096875000002,"end":145.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.26971875,"end":149.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.45909375000002,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.96096875,"end":153.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.38659375,"end":162.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.99284375000002,"end":166.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.16159375,"end":163.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.87409375000001,"end":179.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.40784375,"end":185.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.24284375000002,"end":183.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.32721875000001,"end":183.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":185.53784375,"end":191.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.97159375,"end":191.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":191.32596875000002,"end":196.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.81034375000002,"end":204.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":196.84409375,"end":198.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":201.61971875,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.18471875,"end":211.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":211.67721875,"end":211.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.74471875,"end":212.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":212.03159375,"end":217.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.04846875,"end":212.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.44846875000002,"end":226.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":227.57346875000002,"end":230.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.03721875000002,"end":236.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":233.27721875,"end":234.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":236.14596875,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.21346875,"end":236.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.62221875,"end":241.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":241.39409375000002,"end":242.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.05221875,"end":243.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":243.63846875000002,"end":251.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.11409375000002,"end":252.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.87346875000003,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.52721875,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.85909375,"end":275.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.36346875000004,"end":276.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.03846875,"end":288.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.09659375,"end":282.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.75846875,"end":285.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":285.77534375,"end":286.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.81284375,"end":290.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":289.97721875,"end":291.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":291.52971875000003,"end":304.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.54659375,"end":293.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.47721875,"end":304.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":304.54034375000003,"end":305.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":306.48096875000005,"end":307.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.78471875,"end":313.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.26471875000004,"end":322.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.05659375000005,"end":323.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.96346875,"end":335.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.22909375,"end":325.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.72971875,"end":337.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.00784375,"end":339.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.39159375,"end":341.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.53034375000004,"end":341.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.90159375,"end":341.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.93534375,"end":342.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":342.96471875000003,"end":348.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.95534375,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":349.96784375000004,"end":351.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.08159375,"end":354.38909375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.369,"end":4.053,"text":"謝謝主席。我想要請王部長。王部長早。"},{"start":11.618,"end":31.087,"text":"我突然想到你有些事情忘了跟那個未來的理部長交接喔你上次答應我在預算協商的時候你答應我要對高鐵、彰化高鐵跟台中高鐵就是列車門是不是有護欄有沒有就是這個部分好像還沒有裝欸是不是"},{"start":32.1,"end":41.663,"text":"你上次在預算協商有答應我,你這有沒有交接下去?有告知台灣高鐵公司,現在中共"},{"start":43.884,"end":64.41,"text":"他上次是說列車在在就是說你們列車要月台門嘛那你列車要更換嗎那前陣子也有在就是列月台的時候發生乘客要搶上車那跟高鐵就是的那個警衛有發生衝撞那未來這些事情代表了"},{"start":64.77,"end":91.478,"text":"不管在台中或者是在彰化高鐵都需要再加強那我們是不是可以請觀光署的周署長我剛剛看到他有來喔尤其是最近有在討論好像彰化高鐵的營運不彰可是我認為目前大家對於彰化高鐵的使用率是很高的那是不是能夠請觀光署報告一下對於我們彰化的周邊的觀光規劃"},{"start":92.958,"end":109.615,"text":"那是不是能夠讓高鐵的使用率再增加那甚至我看到在假日的時候對於高鐵的就是說是不是要增加班次那以及這個都需要再進一步的來做溝通對不對"},{"start":111.402,"end":129.831,"text":"委員報告大概高鐵的彰化站的聯外的交通的方便性這個應該要提高了那因為高鐵本身他有一些聯外的這個巴士那麼我們希望是把田中變成一個hub所以他有一個叫田中支線那個在規劃中"},{"start":131.092,"end":153.38,"text":"那未來的話就是他的景點的聯繫因為現在大部分都透過台中高鐵的台中站往南走所以要帶動這個部分一方面要台鐵的系統二方面要高鐵的系統的連結線那麼把把這個填中當hub的時候他就可以把這個帶動彰化地區以及甚至集集線"},{"start":154.44,"end":179.753,"text":"到南投這個部分才能夠串接起來那相關的這個時速郵購型的部分我們是把它當作中區的旅遊把它做一些景點的串接那確實彰化高鐵的彰化站這個部分目前現階段只有幾個比較重要的好行或者客運的連結那這個部分我們也是在暑假有特別希望他們能夠增加一些班次"},{"start":180.472,"end":196.377,"text":"好那我要麻煩我們王部長你過去答應我的事情要要對我現在想起來就是說當時因為他要先採購12列的新列車所以他們是認為那個列車的這個門的位置要怎麼樣我我我這個交易下去"},{"start":197.477,"end":226.583,"text":"對,是不是?我們還是應該要做,因為你跟李部長應該也是可以溝通的嘛,是不是?那填正支線現在都在進行中啦,這是應該是整個彰化站裡面最重要的一個建設,因為它聯話交通不方便。怎麼樣跟這個鐵路還有包括了吉利支線做一些串聯,這個是它的重點。好,那我剛才看到你有講,就是實項那個違罪,就是輕微的違規,不開放檢舉,那祭典部分呢?"},{"start":227.805,"end":240.554,"text":"對就不開檢舉也不祭典我們現在目前那祭典的部分現在都都全部都沒有了嗎沒有沒有就是違罪不祭典還是全部都不祭典就是違罪不接受檢舉也不祭典大概這樣哦就是違罪"},{"start":242.406,"end":260.787,"text":"對對對對兩個都不要了是不是對比如說這十項處理完了以後就不接受民眾選舉那未來縱然是警察開單也不記點大概這樣所以也不記點對對對那再來我還是非常我上次在這裡的時候我們提到了也希望你能夠交代下去就是交接下去"},{"start":261.548,"end":286.976,"text":"對於我們道路安全基本法裡面我們在深港的那個路口你說要請運燃所然後來把每一個路口不同的太陽就是說就是標線還有相關的標誌的部分你要做一個統合的處理要把那個太陽給各縣市政府去做相關的規劃這個部分"},{"start":288.937,"end":305.683,"text":"是不是你有你有交代這個有在進行就是說過去標準標準號誌設置規則是比較固定式比如說現在變成一個整理式那院院所已經做一個這個標準標準號誌設置規則的指引包括過範例這部分現在在進行"},{"start":307.404,"end":321.135,"text":"那個首長說一下上次有跟委員報告我們大概會優先在也是部長特別指示我們在計畫這個3個月內我們會先出版第一個階段的一個指引出來光各個地方政府來做這個參考應用"},{"start":322.116,"end":347.834,"text":"所以你們三個現在離上次我們質詢幾個月因為我們那個計畫有一個報部然後招標的一個程序那我們現在大概基本上就是在計畫執行上面的時程設計就是應該在520之前你就要出來了吧是不是我們朝這個目標是不是不能等到520之後吧是不是我們盡量朝這個目標來努力已經成果有第一段成果出來了趕快發布給地方政府來參考這樣"},{"start":349.008,"end":349.37,"text":"好。好。謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"151446","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151446","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445fea6e9a2df5b4ec051d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94057babbb10d0fc445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:32:14 - 11:38:23","影片長度":"00:06:09","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":369,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:38:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:32:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":539,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（11時32分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：邱委員好。"],["邱委員若華：部長好。這週立法院三讀通過了行人交通安全設施條例，無非就是希望建置安全還有友善行人的用路環境。其中有妨礙行人通行的固定設施必須限期改善，像是騎樓、人行道與地面必須要拉平。","今年開始中央有推動4年400億元的永續提升行人安全計畫，包括改善行人道、行人及高齡友善的示範區，還有路口行人安全設施等改善項目。在道路上最弱勢的就是身障者、幼童，還有高齡長者、推娃娃車，還有使用輪椅的家庭。本席這邊要提到，電動輪椅使用者在人行道品質不佳上下不便，還有街道高低不平，沒有很好的上下車條件環境，路口也不夠安全，權益跟安全都被忽視了，請問部長要如何儘快改善對他們不友善的用路交通環境？"],["王部長國材：是，跟邱委員報告，事實上我們去年整個行人安全是當作行政院和交通部最重要的政策，所以您可以看到永續提升行人安全計畫，就是給地方補助款，像今年提出來的，都是百分之百補助。","第二個就是你談到的行人交通安全設施條例，事實上這兩個是搭配起來的，也就是行人交通安全設施條例要求改善人行道，錢從哪裡來，就申請這400億元的補助，現在大概是這樣搭配。我們希望利用這4年的時間，把全國包括市區道路、省道所有人行設施，透過這個條例的要求還有經費的補助把它做起來，這是我們現在最重要的目標。其中當然包括輪椅族和高齡者，事實上都是我們行人交通設施中很重要的項目在執行。"],["邱委員若華：請教部長，這一年的交通安全和行人路權的改善，具體情況如何？"],["王部長國材：關於這點，今天我們有做一個報告，我們從去年下半年做一個很積極的作為，整個行人死亡率大概下降了10.78%。"],["邱委員若華：OK，我有看到那份報告。那有關道路安全的經費補助，各縣市政府目前的情況？"],["王部長國材：現在有779處全額補助，幾乎他們有提上來，我們都是全額補助，現在有779處已經提上來了。"],["邱委員若華：有779處。交通部上個月公布全臺有1,000處對行人不友善的危險路段，……"],["王部長國材：對不起，是799處。"],["邱委員若華：799處。上個月公布全臺有1000處對行人不友善的危險路段，桃園佔了135處，依道路管理權責劃分，有43處是歸交通部公路局管的。請問部長，預計完成改善的時程？"],["王部長國材：799處是今年要完成的。"],["邱委員若華：799處是今年要完成的？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["邱委員若華：OK，好。另外再請教部長，準總統賴清德昨天也有表示，4年400億元的預算，接下來結合跨黨派還有民間團體的力量，可以在2030年的時候降低行人意外死亡50%的目標，部長您怎麼看？"],["王部長國材：的確，包括現在的蔡總統還有未來的賴總統，對於行人安全都非常重視。事實上去年在談永續提升行人安全計畫，還有包括行人交通安全設施條例等等相關行人的部分，總統和副總統他們都有參加，了解這個狀況，所以這是有延續性的。"],["邱委員若華：延續性的，OK。"],["王部長國材：所以從去年到現在，我們是把制度包括條例和經費都做好了，這是一個好的開始啦！未來賴總統提的目標，我真的很期待能夠完成，也希望下一棒大家一起加油。"],["邱委員若華：剛剛牛委員有提到關於客運的部分，本席要問的是解決客運缺人的問題，要如何協助業者攬才、育才、留才的方案？目前還是鬧司機荒，所以這些方案實際上的成效是如何？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，第一個我們有訓練司機，一個人大概有16萬元，訓練完畢然後到各個客運業服務。第二，這次他們提出票價調整，我們支持，尤其國道客運的部分。當然票價調整、收入增加，他就必須反饋，就是讓司機的待遇高一點，可以找到更多的司機。我想大概這兩個方向來處理。"],["邱委員若華：交通部有向客運業者了解目前司機荒的情況嗎？"],["王部長國材：應該有相關的資料。"],["邱委員若華：有相關的資料，好。","本席要謝謝王部長過去對於桃園重大交通建設的支持，本席就任立委還不到3個月，積極地向部長還有行政院長爭取捷運綠線延伸至大溪、國道3號八德交流道、桃園捷運三鶯線延伸至八德，還有國道2號的中路交流道等交通建設，也期盼部長交接，未來也可以繼續支持我們桃園的交通建設。"],["王部長國材：也真的很謝謝邱委員，雖然很短的時間，表現你對於整個桃園的重視，這些我們都討論過。事實上我覺得下一棒會更強，而且他也很願意做事，所以我想委員放心啦，他一定會繼續做下去。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝王部長。"],["王部長國材：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請謝衣鳯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.8915937500000001,"end":2.2415937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.32596875,"end":3.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.69221875,"end":8.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.215343750000002,"end":20.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.449718750000002,"end":30.844718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.215968750000002,"end":38.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.860343750000006,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.74159375,"end":44.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.564093750000005,"end":55.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.68471875,"end":58.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.09346875000001,"end":60.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.74721875,"end":64.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.88159375000001,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.53096875,"end":68.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.50971875,"end":69.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.77534375,"end":71.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.15471875,"end":75.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.39034375,"end":79.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.59659375000001,"end":83.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.52846875,"end":121.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.98659375000001,"end":124.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.44596875,"end":129.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.28909375,"end":130.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.84596875,"end":133.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.33909375000002,"end":143.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.10159375,"end":143.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.33346875,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.02534375000002,"end":144.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.03284375,"end":152.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.68221875,"end":153.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.40346875,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.50846875000002,"end":159.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.54221875000002,"end":157.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.68534375000002,"end":166.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.84096875,"end":165.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.96284375000002,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.89096875,"end":180.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.11659375000002,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.44534375,"end":189.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.68096875,"end":190.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.53284375,"end":206.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.24346875,"end":206.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.58096875,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.03659375,"end":207.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.91409375,"end":207.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.93096875,"end":212.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.14534375000002,"end":215.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.45721875,"end":217.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.11096875,"end":220.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.02596875,"end":224.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.27846875,"end":225.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.93659375000001,"end":231.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.04971875,"end":232.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.62346875,"end":254.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.06721875000002,"end":266.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.90909375,"end":272.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.62971875,"end":287.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.40784375000004,"end":303.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.30846875000003,"end":303.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.47721875,"end":306.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.00409375000004,"end":308.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.48471875,"end":309.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.50159375000004,"end":318.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.94846875,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.81659375000004,"end":319.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.76159375000003,"end":320.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.51659375,"end":335.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.13034375,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.58471875000004,"end":344.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.02346875,"end":349.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.90034375000005,"end":352.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.87034375,"end":358.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.89471875000004,"end":367.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.91471875,"end":367.46721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.219,"end":27.786,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請部長請問好部長好這週二立法院三讀通過了行人交通安全設施條例那無非就是希望能夠建置安全還有友善行人的用路環境那其中有妨礙行人通行的固定設施必須限期改善像是騎樓挖人行道與地面屏必須要拉平嘛"},{"start":28.206,"end":49.082,"text":"那今年開始中央有推動4年400億的永續提升行人安全計畫包括改善行人道、行人還有高齡友善的示範區還有路口行人安全設施等改善項目那在道路上最弱勢的就是生長者幼童然後還有高齡長者推娃娃車還有使用輪椅的家庭"},{"start":49.522,"end":67.962,"text":"那我其實這邊要提到電動輪椅的使用者在人行道品質上下不便還有街道高低不平沒有很好的上下車條件環境路口也不夠安全那權益跟安全權益跟安全都被忽視了請問部長要如何盡快改善對他們不友善的用路交通環境是根據我們"},{"start":69.864,"end":85.39,"text":"市長我們在去年就是整個這個行人的安全是當作行政院跟交通部最重要的政策所以您可以看到永續提升行人安全計劃這個就是給給地方補助款像今年提出來都是百分之百補助"},{"start":86.57,"end":86.59,"text":"報告。"},{"start":103.962,"end":129.729,"text":"包括四七道路包括我們省道所有人行設施透過這個條例的要求還有我們經費的補助把它做起來這是我們現在最重要的一個目標那其中當然包括這個包括輪椅組還包括這個高齡者這事實上都在我們新任的交通設施裡面當作一個很重要項目在執行是那請教部長那這一年的交通安全和行人路線的改善具體情況如何"},{"start":131.223,"end":156.445,"text":"對,這個今天我們有做一個報告在去年我們從下半年做一個很積極的作為這個整個行人大概死亡下降了10.78%我又看到那份報告那有關那個道路安全的經費補助各縣市政府的目前的情況現在有779處全額補助的幾乎在他提上我們幾乎都全額補助了"},{"start":157.566,"end":182.221,"text":"那現在有779處已經提上來了779處因為交通部上個月公布全台一千處對新人不友善的799799那上個月公布全台一千處對新人不友善的危險路段馬桃園佔了135處那依道路的管理權則劃分有43處是交通部公路局管了那請問部長預計完成改善的時程"},{"start":184.036,"end":207.41,"text":"這個是今年799是今年要完成的799是今年要完成的OK好那這邊另外再請教部長總統賴清德昨天也有表示4年400億的預算接下來結合礦打派還有民間團體的力量可以在2030年的時候降低50%的目標那部長您怎麼看"},{"start":208.711,"end":235.772,"text":"現在的確包括現在的蔡總統還有賴未來的賴總統對於行人安全都非常的重視所以他們也一直把事實上去年在談這個永續提升人權安全計畫還有包括美國的設施條例等等相關行人的部分總統和副總統他們都有參加他們都會聊這個狀況所以這是一個延續性的所以我們現在應該從去年到現在我們是把制度"},{"start":236.813,"end":253.967,"text":"還有包括條例還有包括經費都把它做好了這是一個好的一個開始啦我真的覺得這個未來賴總統提的目標我真的很期待他能夠完成也希望說下一棒大家一起加油這樣子"},{"start":254.107,"end":272.117,"text":" OK,那剛剛牛委員有提到就是關於客運的部分,那這邊本席要問的是就解決客運缺額的問題,要如何協助業者攬財、育財、留財的方案,那目前時機還是鬧時機荒,所以這些方案實際上的成效是如何?"},{"start":272.877,"end":287.627,"text":"我們第一個就是我們有這個包括訓練司機這個部分我們一個人大概有16萬這樣訓練完然後到各個課業服務第二個這一次他們提出這一個票價調整我們支持"},{"start":288.467,"end":289.047,"text":"報告告告告告告"},{"start":310.074,"end":335.324,"text":"應該有這個相關的資料有相關的資料好那這邊本期要謝謝王部長過去對桃園重大交通建設的支持那本期在就任立委還不到3個月積極的一直向部長還有行政院長就是爭取捷運綠線延伸至大溪還有國三巴德交流道還有桃園的捷運那這個山陰線延伸至巴德還有國道二號"},{"start":336.224,"end":341.048,"text":"答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答答"},{"start":352.895,"end":352.915,"text":"韓國瑜"}]}},{"id":"151445","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151445","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445e5292a954e87a11a51d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c9449826321c0b4a3205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:24:48 - 11:32:02","影片長度":"00:07:14","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":434,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:32:02+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:24:48+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":489,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時24分）謝謝主席，部長有請。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長早安。今天討論道交條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二修正草案，我先問部長，你會希望520之前就把這個法案處理完畢嗎？"],["王部長國材：沒有，我們就是送到立法院，開放所有委員討論。"],["牛委員煦庭：開放討論，你會希望趕快處理嗎？"],["王部長國材：我們送上來，就是希望這個會期處理完，當然就是尊重所有委員討論的結果。"],["牛委員煦庭：前面幾次針對這個題目，不管是公聽會也好，我們也講過，政策的平衡，不要變成反覆，本來一下子可以檢舉，一下子又變成不能檢舉，跨度太大的時候，就變成政策的反反覆覆。你在中間基於社會上的部分需要做微調、做平衡，大家都願意理解，可是反覆的時候，政策不確定性其實會造成更大的社會紛擾，我首先敍明。","今天大家討論道交條例的修正，當然就是因為這個記點的制度，本席理解，基於法規很落後，基礎建設不夠人本，某些層面也算是歷史共業吧。過去記點制度上路的時候，其實給職業駕駛很大的壓力，我們總要基於產業發展，給人家一條活路，這樣的概念，本席是願意了解的。不過你去年11月的時候就已經用行政規範的方式，開放路邊臨停上下客等特殊狀態不予記點。第六十三條及第六十三條之二的修正案，我覺得大概可以平衡掉這次最大的爭議點，可是問題是如果連第七條之一也全部納入的話，那我覺得就會進入政策反覆的狀況。","我理解檢舉可能是爭議很大的題目，但是我覺得你即便要檢討所謂的檢舉機制，也是要針對特定人士大量檢舉這件事情，然後針對機制做檢討跟設定，而不是把一般公民基於執法量能不足的自力救濟管道全部封殺掉。部長，經過這一連串的公聽會，大家各方表達意見之後，現在你的看法是什麼？"],["王部長國材：是，我跟牛委員報告，去年局部修法那時候，因為沒辦法改處罰條例，所以有做一些臨時處理。"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["王部長國材：但這次是系統性的，的確在我們內部討論系統性的時候，想說怎麼確定所謂的不開放讓民眾檢舉跟記點的部分，也經過很多討論。最後在處罰條例第九十二條跟裁罰基準及處理細則的第十二條就有規定，當警察碰到某些狀況，比如違規停車在路口，但是他去的時候可以用驅趕的，不是就馬上開單。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，所以你有一些行政方式，已經可以相對來階段性處理這個問題。"],["王部長國材：對，這一次我們處理就是第九十二條跟裁罰基準及處理細則第十二條的精神，1200元的精神來做的調整。當然過去是越嚴重罰越重，過去是這樣。但是如果在1200元以下，就是我們列出的這10項，如果委員討論後，比如現在談到佔用身障車位的部分，我個人覺得這個部分是可以繼續開放民眾檢舉。"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊，某些層面你也可以講，我就順著這個題目往下講，你當然可以講民眾檢舉很奇怪，由民眾檢舉來行使公權力好像有些爭議，這個實務上存在的理由，當然就是因為公權力執法者沒有辦法正常執法，讓人民大眾覺得好像我要透過檢舉機制捍衛行人的權利。階段性可以接受，終究我們要面對有辦法有效執法這件事情，本席是內政委員會的，本席認為執法人力如果都丟給警察，這對基層警察極不公平。也就是說，如果第七條之一全部拿掉，微罪不舉的情況之下，實務上來講，這些想要自力救濟的人就會透過報案的方式來處理。我不能不為我警察弟兄講講話，即便上面的長官認為沒有人力問題，我告訴你，基層警力也是悶在心裡啦！我是覺得這不是一個很健康的方式，我們希望的是透過有效的，也許是科技執法，對不對？也許是透過交通助理員的設置，補足執法人力，把正常執法的環境建立起來，我們再來把檢舉制度拿掉，避免社會紛擾，這才是有效而且合理的步驟。"],["王部長國材：我了解。我跟委員報告，去年是46項增加到59項，現在我們減掉10項，回到49項。這也是有衡量警力，並不是把59項全部拿掉。"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在要問的是，讓這個社會有正常執法功能，你的進度是什麼？你的安排是什麼？"],["王部長國材：當然交通助理員是各縣市可以聘的。"],["牛委員煦庭：你就不能丟給各縣市，我現在要講的就是你不能丟給地方政府處理嘛！地方政府財政壓力跟中央相比，量級其實差非常多，員額也有一定的限制，中央是不是應該設計一套機制，可以給地方政府更多的資源，讓這個機制更健康？"],["王部長國材：我們的機制除了警察以外，就是交通助理員，法定公權力就是這兩個。"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊。"],["王部長國材：現在六都也有很多已經有設置。"],["牛委員煦庭：實務上，在地方政府是欠缺相關的資源，我希望如果你要做這樣調整的時候，相對的，中央要有一定的配套，交通助理員的機制化，中央的支持，我認為是很重要。"],["王部長國材：我支持。"],["牛委員煦庭：但是我希望交通部，也許部長基於生涯規劃要離開，部裡面事務官的同仁要先研擬。"],["王部長國材：了解，要有相關的配套措施。"],["牛委員煦庭：最後30秒。今天聽說部長差點遲到，下大雨，塞車塞得很厲害，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：大眾運輸是本席非常關心的，一個月、兩個月前我們在討論運價調整，他們都講說已經報部處理了，請問那份是在你桌上還沒有蓋章，還是怎麼樣？什麼時候會核定？"],["王部長國材：你講的是國道客運的部分？"],["牛委員煦庭：對、對、對，成本調整。"],["王部長國材：那個基本上已經通過。目前比較緊急的是國道客運，比如說桃園過來，……"],["牛委員煦庭：要趕快處理嘛！"],["王部長國材：這個部分我們支持，而且短期是TPASS可以補掉嘛。"],["牛委員煦庭：對！"],["王部長國材：中長途用部分補貼的方式，讓它票價不會太高，這個會積極處理。"],["牛委員煦庭：時間、時間，什麼時候？客運業者都很關心，因為路線規劃的檢討、調整，結構的問題要先解決嘛。"],["王部長國材：審查通過了。"],["林所長繼國：審議會的審查程序已經完成，最後就等裡面部長這邊核定。"],["王部長國材：還沒有到我這邊，我趕快再催。"],["牛委員煦庭：還沒有到你桌上？"],["王部長國材：對、對、對。"],["林所長繼國：我們上個禮拜五才完成。"],["牛委員煦庭：我希望這件事情在520之前可以完成，部長基於生涯規劃，可能沒有辦法續任交通部長，我希望留下最後的身影是對大眾運輸的支持，而不是針對違規、大家爭議很大的法案。法案可以充分的討論，大家可以花點時間討論，但是大眾運輸可以立即對行人、對於交通環境友善，我希望留下的是這樣的身影，好不好？所以部長拜託你加速啦！"],["王部長國材：好，OK。"],["牛委員煦庭：5月20日前把它處理完，好嗎？"],["王部長國材：好，OK。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.92534375,"end":2.3597187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.64659375,"end":2.6634687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.6634687500000003,"end":3.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.77659375,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.687843750000003,"end":18.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.555343750000002,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.33971875,"end":26.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.89596875,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.051593750000002,"end":38.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.40471875,"end":43.821593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.159093750000004,"end":134.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.735968750000005,"end":52.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.30096875,"end":138.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.16971875000002,"end":154.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.60596875000002,"end":158.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.74034375000002,"end":159.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.25909375,"end":165.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.67596875,"end":169.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.43909375,"end":175.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.92346875,"end":180.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.10471875000002,"end":177.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.77096875,"end":182.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.05721875,"end":189.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.09409375,"end":194.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.68409375000002,"end":198.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.08846875,"end":202.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.44659375,"end":203.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.52659375000002,"end":209.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.53409375,"end":230.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.86409375000002,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.51034375,"end":277.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.59096875,"end":282.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.87284375,"end":286.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.56846875,"end":291.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.40346875,"end":289.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.91784375000003,"end":292.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.12034375,"end":298.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.15409375,"end":292.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.08971875000003,"end":302.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.56596875,"end":317.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.03721875,"end":312.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.55971875,"end":328.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.04346875000005,"end":325.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.97971875,"end":347.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.92846875000004,"end":332.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.84284375000004,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.77096875,"end":341.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.28971875,"end":342.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.41971875,"end":349.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.78659375,"end":351.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.62159375000005,"end":364.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.86846875000003,"end":372.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.77971875000003,"end":366.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.70346875,"end":368.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.98534375,"end":379.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.41909375,"end":379.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.46534375000005,"end":389.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.49409375000005,"end":384.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.96159375,"end":392.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.40034375000005,"end":390.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.88534375,"end":391.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.07096875,"end":392.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.96534375000005,"end":399.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.90596875,"end":395.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.84221875000003,"end":406.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.28409375,"end":406.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.05596875000003,"end":432.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.24221875,"end":430.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.33471875000004,"end":432.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.40221875000003,"end":433.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.45284375000006,"end":432.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.31346875,"end":433.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.33034375000005,"end":433.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.68471875,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.97159375,"end":434.57909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.336,"end":28.885,"text":"謝謝主席部長有請請部長部長早安今天討論道交條例七條一、六十三跟六十三條之二的修正草案的答詢這個我先問部長你會希望520之前就把這個法案處理完畢嗎沒有就是我們一送到立法院就看我覺得就是開放所有的委員做一個討論開放討論但你會希望他趕快處理嗎"},{"start":30.1,"end":48.153,"text":"我當然我們送上來就是希望這個會期處理完那當然就是討論的就是尊重所有委員的討論的結果好啦這當然啦這前面也幾次針對這個題目不管是公聽會也好我們也講過嘛就是說這個政策的平衡不要變成反復啦"},{"start":48.453,"end":69.244,"text":"好本來一下子可以可以可以檢舉一下變不能檢舉跨度太大的時候就會變成政策的反反覆覆你在中間基於社會上的部分的需要做微調做平衡這個大家都願意理解可是反覆的時候政策不確定性其實會造成更大的社會紛擾這核心序名今天大家去討論這個道交條例的修正當然就是因為這個祭典的制度"},{"start":69.804,"end":95.822,"text":"那我本席理解基於我們的法規很落後基礎建設不夠人本某些層面你也可以算是歷史工業吧所以說在過去就用祭典制度上路的時候其實給職業價值很大的壓力那我們總要繼續產業發展給人家一條活路這樣的概念本席是願意了解的不過你去年11月的時候其實你就已經用這個行政規範的方式去開放說這個路邊臨停上下課就特殊的狀態的時候其實是不予祭典"},{"start":96.542,"end":119.44,"text":"那你的六十三條跟六十三條二的修正案大概我覺得可以平衡掉這一次最大的爭點可是問題是你如果連七條一的部分也全部納入的話那我覺得他就會進入一個政策反覆的一個狀況我理解說檢舉可能是一個很大爭議的題目但是我覺得你即便要檢討所謂的檢舉機制也是要針對特定人士大量檢舉的這一件事情"},{"start":120.04,"end":120.401,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":135.593,"end":153.862,"text":"我跟你們報告就是說在去年的局部修法那時候因為沒辦法去來改這個處罰條例所以有做一些這個臨時處理的對但這一次是系統性的啦那系統性的確我們在內部討論的時候在想說用怎麼樣"},{"start":155.203,"end":177.18,"text":"來確定所謂的不開放民眾卷集跟祭典的部分也經過很多討論最後在處罰條例九十二條跟我們的裁判基準的第十二條裡面就有規定就是說當警察碰到某些狀況比如說這個違規停車在在入口但是他去的時候可以用驅趕的不是就開動對嘛所以你有一些行政方式其實已經可以相對來講"},{"start":178.161,"end":181.943,"text":"對所以這一次我們處理就是92條跟這個12條的這精神1200塊的精神來做的調整當然啦齁這個過去是越嚴重滑越重過去是這樣但是如果在1200元以下這是我們列出的這10項"},{"start":199.133,"end":208.374,"text":"如果大家委員這個大家討論齁那個比如說現在談到呃占用身上車位的部分我個人也覺得這個部分是可以可以繼續開靠民眾捲舉是"},{"start":209.688,"end":228.529,"text":"對啊我跟你講某一些層面你也可以講我就接下來我順著題目往下講你當然可以講說這個民眾檢舉是很奇怪的由民眾檢舉來行使公權力好像有一些爭議可是這個的存在的這個實務上存在的理由當然就是因為公權力執法的沒有辦法做正常執法然後才會讓人民大眾覺得好像我要透過檢舉機制來捍衛行人的權利這樣是其實是"},{"start":230.951,"end":236.316,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":253.61,"end":276.857,"text":"即便上面的長官認為沒有人力問題我告訴你基層的警力那也是悶在心裡我是覺得這不是一個很健康的方式我們希望的是也透過有效的也許是用科技執法對不對也許是透過交通助理員的這樣一些設置去補足執法的人力把正常執法的環境建立起來的時候我們再來講說我們把這檢舉制度拿掉去避免社會紛擾這個才是一個有效而且合理的這個步驟"},{"start":277.657,"end":298.85,"text":"我了解,我跟你們報告在去年是46項增加到59項現在我們又減到10項又被回到49項那這個部分也是有衡量比如說警力我並不是把59項全部拿掉我跟你講我現在要問的是比如說讓這個社會有正常執法功能的你的進度是什麼你的安排是什麼"},{"start":299.691,"end":315.71,"text":"當然交通助理也是各縣市是可以批准的。對,你就不能丟給各縣市。我現在講的就是你不能丟給地方政府處理嘛。地方政府財政壓力跟中央相比量級其實差非常多。緣額也有一定的限制嘛。中央是不是應該設計一套機制可以給地方政府更多的資源。"},{"start":316.271,"end":316.291,"text":"報告﹏"},{"start":341.44,"end":359.535,"text":"也許部長可能基於生涯規劃要離開但整個部裡面的這個事務官的同仁要先做研擬最後30秒相關的配套措施最後30秒因為今天聽說部長差點遲到嘛下大雨對不對塞車塞得很厲害對不對大眾運輸啊是本期非常關心的對不對我們這一個月前兩個月前我們在討論運價調整你講說已經他們都講說已經報部處理了請問那份還桌上還沒有蓋章還怎麼樣"},{"start":365.82,"end":389.595,"text":"什麼時候會核定?對對對成本調整通過通過通過我們現在這樣就是說目前比較擠的是國道客運比如說桃園過來對要趕快處理嘛這個部分我們支持而且我們在這個短期是TPAS可以補掉嘛對中產體我們用補貼部分補貼的方式對所以讓它票價不會太高這個會積極處理時間時間什麼時候?這個已經送上了"},{"start":393.195,"end":409.51,"text":"這客運業者都都因為我們要規劃路線的檢討調整我們會需要結構問題要先解決嗎?審議會的審查程序已經完成了那最後現在就等部裡面部長這邊做還沒有到我這邊啊我趕快還沒有到你桌上我希望啊這件事情在520前可以完成啦"},{"start":409.65,"end":409.93,"text":"好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"151444","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151444","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452e0dbd70272c024151d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c945aed41defc5d99185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"11:14:53 - 11:24:34","影片長度":"00:09:41","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":581,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:24:34+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:14:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":433,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（11時14分）謝謝主席，我們先請臺鐵局。"],["主席：請杜微董事長。"],["許委員智傑：部長，你順便聽一下。請問董事長，現在有很多落軌的案件，我們可以看到前4年落軌的意外有一百多件，死亡有29人，然後前一陣子板橋跟科工館站都有落軌的事件，對於閘門的裝設，現在臺鐵有什麼計畫？"],["杜董事長微：我們現在計畫在高雄站要試辦第一處月台門。"],["許委員智傑：所以這個大概什麼時候會完成？"],["杜董事長微：我們預計第一處月台門的試辦點要在今年年底完成。"],["許委員智傑：好，除了高雄之外，高雄是先試辦，其他全國的臺鐵呢？"],["杜董事長微：這個要看試辦點的閘門設置好以後的使用情形，然後再來研議。"],["許委員智傑：我大概有去研究一下你們的閘門，你們這個閘門可能跟捷運或高鐵不一樣，他們都是固定型態，而臺鐵因為有不同的車種，可能它的閘門寬度要提高、增加，因應不同的車種，設計的時候可能要不太一樣，這個地方你們要注意一下。其實我們現在要求的就是安全，就是希望閘門能夠儘快以全國的角度去做思考，當然我們高雄站先試辦也先感謝啦！關於這個部分，安全回家是一個非常重要的概念。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["許委員智傑：我們的鐵路基本上是採西部高鐵、東部快鐵，去年我們有去花東剪綵，現在花東雙軌的進度怎麼樣？這部分是鐵道局嘛？"],["楊局長正君：報告委員，因為去年我們在招標上面比較不順利，後來在去年年底花東雙軌相關的主體工程標都決標了，我們最近可以展開實質的動工。"],["許委員智傑：所以我們本來是預計116年完工，對不對？"],["楊局長正君：是。"],["許委員智傑：現在來不來得及？"],["楊局長正君：現在會分階段，會分四段，因為中間我們也將過去地方訴求的花蓮到吉安的7處危險平交道提報修正計畫，改為高架路段，現在這已經報院在做審核當中。"],["許委員智傑：沒關係，就是整體完工的時間預計……"],["楊局長正君：整體完工的時間會分四段，第四段會較原來的部分有所延誤。"],["許委員智傑：會延誤？所以原則上116年10月沒有辦法如期通車？"],["楊局長正君：只有在臺東那一段會如期通車，其他三段會稍有延誤。"],["許委員智傑：大概會延誤多久？"],["楊局長正君：高架的那一段，數字我可能沒有完全記住，我會後再跟委員報告。"],["許委員智傑：好，沒關係，我現在就是要求速度可以如期如質……"],["楊局長正君：是的，我們全力來加速。"],["許委員智傑：這個部分需要加速，你們先休息。再來請觀光署，謝謝。"],["周署長永暉：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：署長，西高鐵、東快鐵還有另外一個目的，就是東部的觀光，也就是說，我們本來預計是6個小時可以環島一周，如果花東雙軌儘速完成之後，我們再配套觀光的設施，其實我一直在推動，比如冬天日本那邊冷，可以到臺灣的東部，甚至南臺灣來做一個長照觀光的概念，這個部分觀光署有沒有做什麼樣的規劃？"],["周署長永暉：花東本來就是我們非常重要的觀光旅遊目的地，我們是希望能夠善用台9線跟台11線，我們在這個部分也是希望能夠推動自行車旅遊、雙鐵旅遊或是鐵道旅遊。我們現在有兩個重要計畫，希望能夠把南部從嘉義北迴歸線到花蓮的北迴歸線變成一個南環的設計，我們叫做「微笑南臺灣」的設計，來結合相關的鐵道旅遊。"],["許委員智傑：沒關係，這個整體的旅遊，我想觀光署會設計全臺灣嘛。"],["周署長永暉：對，我們是分幾個區塊，用區域旅遊的方式。"],["許委員智傑：我剛提到的是針對東部的長照觀光，觀光署是不是有概念？"],["周署長永暉：長照的部分，涉及到衛福部一些能量，原則上我們希望跟民宿有些比較長時間，有幾個我們叫做……"],["許委員智傑：沒關係，我的概念就是希望署長可以跟衛福部聯繫一下，就是要如何吸引。我想臺灣到日本的很多，日本到臺灣的也不少，但是現在比較少，還可以有增加的空間。"],["周署長永暉：是。"],["許委員智傑：我們如果增加這樣的概念，也許可以吸收，像臺灣人有時候到日韓，去兩天兩夜就回來了。當然東部這邊，我是一直想東部這邊你可以過來一個月，可以過來長久一點。"],["周署長永暉：Long Stay，Long Stay的方式。"],["許委員智傑：用這樣的概念來吸引更多日韓的觀光客。尤其可能是長輩，年青人玩年青人的，長輩玩長輩的。這部分是不是跟衛福部討論一下，有沒有這個機會？"],["周署長永暉：好，我們有在跟他們接洽，確實需要更多的誘因。"],["許委員智傑：現在聽署長的講法，跟衛福部都還沒討論，是不是可以先去討論一下，看有沒有這個機會。"],["周署長永暉：好，是。"],["許委員智傑：謝謝。接下來請民航局。"],["何局長淑萍：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：局長好。特色IP我講過很多次了，我希望民航局可以在各個機場再多一點食衣住行育樂的規劃。前天晚上我要從金門回來，回不來，昨天中午就在金門機場吃中餐，吃飯的時候正好可以看飛機的起降，可以看跑道，可以看遠方，這個感覺是蠻不錯的。其實機場的食衣住行育樂能夠多一點點這些規劃，尤其是高雄機場，如果吃飯的地方可以看到飛機降落跟跑道，那種感覺也很好。"],["何局長淑萍：好。"],["許委員智傑：你拿高雄機場跟松山機場做比較，或跟其他機場比較，事實上我們還有很多可以再提升的空間，希望局長多用點心。","另外，我現在比較擔心的是之前塞機的事，桃園機場前一陣子大塞機，delay了很多班次。聽說現在北跑道要再修復，會不會再塞機啊？"],["何局長淑萍：我想桃機公司已經針對跑道維修例行維護有建立一套機制，基本上在這個維修計畫啟動前，他們會有相關的對航班……"],["許委員智傑：我想先簡單的跟局長要求一下，也希望部長能夠幫忙，我知道全國航空站修跑道幾乎都用晚上的時間。"],["何局長淑萍：對。"],["許委員智傑：桃園機場最特別了，是三個白天，用三個白天，航班又沒有調整，只看到時候整個流量的控制，其實都不足啦！所以我強烈建議，請部長跟局長一起要求，我不願意看到再重複一次發生。至於怎麼調整，桃機跟民航局有沒有把握不再發生，你們用什麼方式，我不介意。如果你還要用，以前幾十年從來都沒有發生過，為什麼現在會發生這個事情，可能有一些概念上的問題，你們要討論一下。"],["何局長淑萍：是。"],["許委員智傑：這個部分能夠請部長幫忙協調，北跑道再修的時候，我不希望看到這個情況再一次發生，希望能夠防範未然，好不好？"],["何局長淑萍：是，委員，我們會跟桃機再來處理。"],["許委員智傑：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑委員發言，現在請牛煦庭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.13221875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0772187500000001,"end":1.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.2415937500000003,"end":4.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.177843750000001,"end":6.3590937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.907218750000002,"end":11.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.05409375,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.551593750000002,"end":23.250968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.85846875,"end":25.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.68096875,"end":30.254093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.726593750000003,"end":32.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.46034375,"end":45.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.11659375,"end":48.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.479093750000004,"end":50.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":51.38159375,"end":55.127843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.65534375,"end":55.094093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.127843750000004,"end":56.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":56.74784375,"end":56.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.76471875,"end":56.781593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.05159375,"end":57.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.21596875,"end":59.835968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":59.970968750000004,"end":66.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.67034375,"end":67.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":66.68721875,"end":67.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.90221875,"end":67.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.12159375,"end":72.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":73.28534375000001,"end":79.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.51221875,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.86221875000001,"end":81.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.52034375000001,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.94034375000001,"end":122.37471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.23534375000001,"end":128.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.61846875,"end":135.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":136.95471875,"end":138.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.84909375,"end":139.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.80659375000002,"end":140.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":140.38034375,"end":141.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.55721875,"end":143.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.26096875000002,"end":161.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.19284375,"end":152.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.82846875,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.30034375000002,"end":168.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.71346875,"end":170.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.68784375,"end":171.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.21096875,"end":174.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.29909375,"end":184.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.13846875000002,"end":176.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.59284375000001,"end":187.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.55034375000002,"end":192.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.49034375000002,"end":197.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.50721875000002,"end":192.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.51971875,"end":193.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.35034375,"end":202.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.24034375000002,"end":199.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.44659375,"end":203.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.58971875,"end":211.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.04471875000002,"end":209.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.90096875,"end":218.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.95096875000002,"end":216.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.43596875,"end":216.45284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.33846875,"end":222.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.92846875,"end":225.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.97034375,"end":226.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.44284375,"end":227.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.58534375000002,"end":234.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.45409375000003,"end":245.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.42721875,"end":245.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.83221875,"end":257.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.96534375,"end":260.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.73284375000003,"end":271.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.12409375000004,"end":268.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.25909375000003,"end":268.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.02659375,"end":276.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.93284375,"end":288.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.84659375,"end":306.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.80159375,"end":311.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.50971875000005,"end":311.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.52659375,"end":316.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.85909375,"end":320.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.36534375,"end":317.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.70284375,"end":323.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.11534375,"end":326.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.42721875,"end":335.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.60721875,"end":338.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.25659375000004,"end":372.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.26471875000004,"end":340.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.08721875000003,"end":343.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.43284375,"end":373.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.88409375000003,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.39221875000004,"end":389.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.49346875000003,"end":388.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.05034375,"end":389.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.32034375,"end":389.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.38784375,"end":389.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.40471875000003,"end":389.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.42159375,"end":394.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.60721875,"end":390.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.56846875,"end":399.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.58534375000005,"end":394.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.03596875000005,"end":403.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":403.27596875,"end":403.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.32659375000003,"end":403.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":403.37721875000005,"end":403.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.64721875000004,"end":406.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":403.66409375,"end":403.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.46784375000004,"end":418.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.44659375000003,"end":427.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.69409375000004,"end":434.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.86596875000004,"end":437.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.95409375,"end":438.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.20284375000006,"end":442.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.55659375000005,"end":453.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.39471875000004,"end":482.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.44471875000005,"end":495.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.44721875000005,"end":495.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.75096875,"end":497.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.59034375000005,"end":501.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.04534375000003,"end":506.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.43284375,"end":514.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.57096875,"end":519.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.59534375,"end":523.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.9153437500001,"end":523.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":523.93221875,"end":524.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.3034687500001,"end":528.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.3372187500001,"end":524.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.72471875,"end":546.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.6628437500001,"end":552.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.2609687500001,"end":559.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.36971875,"end":562.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.62659375,"end":566.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.64346875,"end":563.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.2334687499999,"end":569.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.4440937500001,"end":574.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.33784375,"end":577.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.1897187500001,"end":578.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.80534375,"end":579.9740937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.489,"end":24.517,"text":"謝謝主席我們先請那個台鐵局請督委董事長部長你順便聽一下請問局長現在那個有很多落軌現在是董事長有很多那個"},{"start":25.768,"end":45.184,"text":"落軌的案件。那我們可以看到這幾年來落軌的意外有前四年有100多件死亡有29人然後呢前一陣子又有板橋跟客工館站都有落軌的事件那我們希望說這個閘門的裝設現在台鐵有什麼計畫"},{"start":51.614,"end":72.332,"text":"我們現在計劃在高雄站要示範第一處我們月台門所以這個大概什麼時候會完成我們預計這個月台門的那個示範點呢要在今年的年底來完成第一處那除了高雄之外高雄市先示範那其他的全國的台鐵勒"},{"start":73.562,"end":91.367,"text":"這個要看那個事辦點齁他閘門設置好以後他使用的情形再來研議你們閘門齁我大概有去研究一下可能你這個閘門跟捷運或跟高鐵不一樣嘛因為他們都是固定型態嘛那台鐵的不同的車種"},{"start":92.367,"end":92.547,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":120.996,"end":135.282,"text":"好那我們的那個鐵路齁鐵路就是說我們基本上西部高鐵東部快鐵嘛好那我們的花東去年我們也去剪裁齁那現在進度怎麼樣呃委員市區 花東雙軌 鐵道局齁"},{"start":148.277,"end":164.323,"text":"報告委員因為去年我們在招標上面比較不順利那後來在去年年底花東雙軌相關的主體工程標都絕標了那我們最近可以展開實質的動工所以我們本來是預計116年完工嘛對不對現在會不會來得及"},{"start":169.296,"end":183.798,"text":"現在會分階段那會分4段那因為中間我們也將過去地方訴求的花蓮道吉安的7處危險平交道提報修正計畫改為高架路段現在這已經抱怨在做審核當中"},{"start":184.659,"end":203.818,"text":"反正就是整體完工的時間整體完工的時間會分四段那第四段會叫原來的部分會有所延誤會延誤所以116年10月原則上沒有辦法如期通車那只有在台東那一段會如期通車那其他三段會稍有延誤延誤大概會多久"},{"start":205.046,"end":222.324,"text":"高價的那一段我現在數字可能沒有完全記載我會後再跟委員報告好沒關係我現在就是要求就是這個速度可能我們如期如此這個部分需要加速那因為你們先前在觀光局你們先休息觀光署謝謝"},{"start":232.628,"end":232.648,"text":"委員號"},{"start":258.295,"end":276.176,"text":"東天日本那邊冷可以到我們台灣的東部甚至南台灣這邊地方來做一個長照觀光的概念這個部分觀光署有沒有做什麼樣的規劃華東本來就是我們這個非常重要的觀光旅遊目的地"},{"start":276.997,"end":304.773,"text":"那我們是希望能夠善用台九線跟台十一線那麼我們在這個部分也是希望能夠推動那個自行車的旅遊或者雙鐵的旅遊或鐵道旅遊那我們現在有兩個重要計畫就是希望能夠把南部跟這個就是從嘉義北回歸線到花蓮的北回歸線變成一個南環的這個設計我們叫做微笑南台灣的這種設計"},{"start":307.615,"end":321.492,"text":"來結合相關的這個鐵道旅遊的這個沒關係這個整體的整體的旅遊我想觀光局會觀光署會設計全台灣嘛對我們是分幾個區塊用區域旅遊的方式針對東部的長照觀光"},{"start":324.255,"end":342.552,"text":"公安署是不是有概念長照的部分它涉及到那個我們衛福部一些能量那原則上我們是希望跟民宿有些比較長時間的有幾個那個我們叫做我的概念就是希望署長可以跟衛福部他們也聯繫一下吧"},{"start":343.012,"end":343.032,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":365.033,"end":387.059,"text":"那當然就是東部這邊我是一直想說東部這邊你可以過來一個月可以過來長久一點那用這個概念來吸引更多的日韓的觀光客尤其是可能有些長輩年輕人玩年輕的長輩玩長輩的那這個部分是不是我們跟衛生衛護部討論一下有沒有這個機會"},{"start":389,"end":406.301,"text":"好,我們有在跟他們接洽,那確實是需要更多的誘因。對,所以現在因為聽署長的講法跟衛福部都還沒討論嘛。那是不是可以先去討論一下看有沒有這個機會。好,是。好,謝謝。我們請那個民航局。"},{"start":417.625,"end":437.054,"text":"市委員好市長好那個我們現在就是特色IP我講過很多次了嘛那我希望說我們民防局可以跟我們的機場再多一點那個十一住行預熱的一個規劃各個機場我昨天正好那個前天晚上要從金門回來回不來回不來"},{"start":439.295,"end":466.208,"text":"正好昨天中午就在金門機場那邊吃中餐。吃飯的時候正好可以看飛機的起降,可以看跑道,可以看遠方。其實這個感覺是蠻不錯的。那也就是說機場其實11住行預熱能夠多一點點這些規劃。是不是,尤其是我們高雄機場,我們高雄機場其實如果吃的地方可以看到飛機降落跟跑道那種感覺也很好。"},{"start":467.128,"end":467.148,"text":"報告"},{"start":484.505,"end":505.717,"text":"那個塞機的事啊就是在桃園機場前這個大塞機那delay了很多的班次那聽說他們現在北跑道要再修復嘛那會不會再塞機啊我想這個部分桃機公司這邊已經針對這個跑道的維修例行的維護的部分已經有建立一套機制"},{"start":506.517,"end":522.988,"text":"那基本上在這個相關在這個計畫啟動前、維修啟動前他們會有相關的對航班﹖您想非常簡單的跟局長先要求一下那個部長這部分也希望能夠幫忙我知道了全國的航空站在修跑道幾乎都用晚上的時間"},{"start":524.648,"end":545.677,"text":"我們桃園機場最特別的就是三個白天所以三個白天航班又沒有調整只看只能到時候的整個流量的控制其實那個都不足所以我是這樣子強烈建議請部長跟局長一起要求就是說我不願意再看到再重複一次發生"},{"start":546.815,"end":564.403,"text":"那怎麼調整?投機跟民航局你們有把握不再發生,你們用什麼方式我不介意嘛。如果你還要用以前幾十年來從來都沒有發生過,為什麼現在會發生這個事情?可能有一些概念上的問題你們要討論一下。所以這個部分再請部長能夠幫忙協調。"},{"start":567.581,"end":577.775,"text":"報道在修的時候我不希望看到這個情況再一次的發生。希望能夠防範未然。這樣好不好?是。我們會跟桃機這邊再來做處理。好。好。謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"151443","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151443","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4451facd21b5be9e13f51d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94bb1958f17482a95c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"11:05:11 - 11:14:39","影片長度":"00:09:28","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":568,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:14:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:05:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":413,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（11時5分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：陳委員好。"],["陳委員素月：部長早。今天委員會針對道交條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二的修正案來進行詢答，我想針對這個部分的調整，對交通部來說真的也是吃力不討好，我們知道這個部分會做這樣調整當然也是有很大的一個民意，事實上在去年有很多的鄉親也是反映，因為這樣子的檢舉制度造成他們被記點的點數已經達到吊扣駕照的程度，因為有的是職業駕駛，也造成他們在駕照吊扣期間喪失了謀生的工具，沒有收入。在這樣子的民意反映之下，也看到網路上有很多民眾串聯發起取消檢舉達人這樣一個制度的連署，這個部分我們也都是有接收到這樣的民意，才會去做這樣的調處。事實上，這樣的調處當然還是會有一些不滿意，對於路權團體來說，他們也是有很大的反彈。","當然，我們法令的規則都是基於道路安全的考量，我想最基礎的應該是要回歸到這個來思考。目前這樣的調整應該是比較不得不的一個調整，是不是也可以請部長再稍微說明一下，做了這個調整之後，我們未來要怎樣再來做一個調整？我想這個應該不是最終的階段，那未來要怎樣來調整，儘量來消弭我們社會的對立，然後也能夠讓我們的道路交通安全更有保障？"],["王部長國材：去年大概這時候在立法院的氛圍就是行人地獄，所以當時對於處罰條例相關的課題，大家都覺得要加入更嚴格的執法，但是的確在去年下半年實施以後，如委員所提的，包括這些駕駛，也包括一般民眾，因為環境還沒有整頓完，當開放民眾檢舉，變成造成很大生活上的困擾。所以我常常講，這一次要取消這十項我個人也是天人交戰，但是我跟委員報告，這是相關環境還沒有整頓之前的一個權宜措施，但是我們相關的環境，包括行人設施條例，包括4年400億的行人相關設施的這些計畫，行政院已經都支持了。這個意思是說，行政院已經支持包括法令，立法院也支持法令，錢也都給了，我們利用這4年時間把環境整頓好，包括停車的地方，包括剛才談到裝卸車位等等，把它整頓好。整個處罰條例事實上每一年在立法院都可以做一些討論，當有一定的成效、環境整頓好以後，我是覺得還是可以再討論。","第二個，這是不開放民眾檢舉，但是民眾還是可以打110報案，所以也不會不處理，讓它變成一個大違規的狀況，所以我想這部分我們也跟警政署再討論一下未來在110報案方面要怎麼處理，這個部分也會再持續的強化。"],["陳委員素月：對，部長剛才講到開放110的報案，當然這又是回到實務面的問題，可能也會造成因為警力不足，而沒有辦法立即處理的狀況，所以我想這個可能都還是會有很多實際面我們要去面對跟檢討的，這個因為時間關係也沒有辦法在這裡做很詳細的討論。當然，我們的政策跟制度應該還是要回到道路安全、交通安全的思維來思考，當然剛剛部長有講，這樣的調整也是目前不得不的一個調整措施，未來會針對整個道路的設施來做改善。","我要先請教一下，這樣子的記點，目前當然我們就是會先取消，就是在1,200塊罰款這樣子的行為下不開放檢舉，當然對於比較重大違規的部分還是有檢舉，可是有檢舉記點的部分，還是會衍生出一些問題，就是有關記點黃牛的行為。對於這樣的處罰，我們當然還是要約束實際的駕駛人、行為人，讓他們知道他們違規，能夠來改正，可是如果衍生出記點黃牛這部分，我想這個又已經走偏了，喪失了法令的原意，這部分你們有去做檢討嗎？"],["王部長國材：這一次修改也是這樣，就是民眾檢舉的部分不記點，因為他可能沒有辦法像警方到現場看到當事者是誰，然後開當事人的記點。另外科技執法的部分也一樣，比如說科技執法拍到一個人闖紅燈，結果他找到的那一個人，就是委員所提的，很多是找一個冒牌的人或是所謂的記點黃牛出來，所以在這次裡面，就是逕行舉發，包括民眾檢舉跟科技執法的部分也不記點，要由警方現場確定是誰之後再記點，所以這個課題這次也是做了處理。"],["陳委員素月：有做了處理啦？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝，要讓法令能夠更消弭社會的紛爭跟對立，當然就是剛剛部長提到的，這整個交通環境的改善、行人道路設施的改善，在這邊也要再次地感謝交通部，這幾年交通部在前瞻特別預算裡面有補助地方來興建停車場設施，在前瞻計畫之後，交通部是不是還會有這樣的規劃？因為我們知道你停車位不足，又要要求民眾停車時不能停騎樓或是一些地方，就是停車的問題，這真的還是要回到停車空間的問題來解決。所以停車場的部分，你們之後還有沒有新的政策？"],["王部長國材：目前就是200加60，共260億，我想下一任的院長或部長他們可能會做考量，比如說，有沒有改善停車問題的下一期，目前我們是還沒有研擬，因為這個到114年，所以我們現在就是把已經在動工的趕快完成，至於從115年以後有沒有，那個可能會再做一個決定。我個人是覺得，的確，你要整頓路邊停車，路外的停車場是最重要的部分。"],["陳委員素月：這個停車空間除了停車場的興建之外，當然就是會涉及到可能還是要跟地方政府一起去盤點，就是什麼樣的區域、區塊的停車問題要怎麼解決，因為我們知道有些住宅密集區的巷道可能只有6米寬，附近也沒什麼停車空間，如果我們禁止他騎樓停車的話，他可能真的沒地方停車；如果我們要開放的話，這個可能又不是交通部可以逕行決定的，所以我們也希望透過中央、地方一起來檢討、努力，讓不管是停車問題或者是交通安全問題都能夠更完善。"],["王部長國材：瞭解，我是覺得把路邊停車路外化，變成路外的停車場，讓路邊空間不要被路邊停車占用，變成路邊臨時停車的困擾，這個應該是我們整頓大環境的一個方向。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝部長。"],["王部長國材：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請許智傑委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.46096875,"end":3.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.16909375,"end":7.371593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.43909375,"end":8.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.181593750000001,"end":15.404093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.46409375,"end":9.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.707843750000002,"end":18.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.88034375,"end":20.871593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.922218750000003,"end":36.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.345968750000004,"end":59.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.852843750000005,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.557218750000004,"end":65.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.40471875,"end":71.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.17596875000001,"end":73.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.53846875,"end":74.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.93909375,"end":78.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.83721875,"end":80.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.99721875,"end":86.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.13971875,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.45409375000001,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.95096875,"end":110.42721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.56221875000001,"end":125.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.31096875,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.58721875,"end":139.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.05971875,"end":146.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.75909375,"end":150.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.19721875000002,"end":161.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.74409375000002,"end":165.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.54096875000002,"end":168.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.00034375,"end":170.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.97471875000002,"end":171.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.17284375,"end":179.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.59784375,"end":185.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.84159375000002,"end":193.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.60409375,"end":196.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.25346875000002,"end":197.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.18159375000002,"end":202.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.75034375,"end":231.23534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.65721875000003,"end":244.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.02346875,"end":237.12471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.27659375000002,"end":237.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.08971875,"end":252.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.25721875000002,"end":277.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.61909375,"end":259.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.16721875,"end":262.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.52346875,"end":283.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.54784375,"end":288.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.31534375,"end":286.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.08284375,"end":292.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.67721875,"end":296.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.98034375000003,"end":307.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.45971875000004,"end":310.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.29471875,"end":312.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.91034375000004,"end":336.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.80034375,"end":315.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.78221875,"end":323.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.31159375000004,"end":357.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.45721875000004,"end":351.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.78096875,"end":363.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.00784375,"end":364.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.46346875,"end":367.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.19284375,"end":371.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.17534375,"end":394.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.68659375000004,"end":395.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.12534375,"end":402.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.24659375000005,"end":409.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.20846875,"end":403.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.26659375,"end":411.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.56159375000004,"end":416.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.52284375000005,"end":418.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.96971875,"end":421.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.27721875000003,"end":428.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.57159375000003,"end":429.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.92159375,"end":461.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.69721875000005,"end":465.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.86534375,"end":470.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.70846875,"end":471.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.97409375,"end":477.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.57659375000003,"end":490.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.85721875,"end":491.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.54909375000005,"end":494.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.80596875000003,"end":498.26534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.46784375000004,"end":500.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.04971875,"end":506.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.92221875,"end":508.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.30159375000005,"end":512.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.2165937500001,"end":515.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.27534375,"end":520.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.6584687500001,"end":541.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.55409375,"end":541.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.8703437500001,"end":545.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.6672187500001,"end":552.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.7040937500001,"end":556.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.17596875,"end":560.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.53409375,"end":561.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.7153437500001,"end":565.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.3603437500001,"end":566.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.86659375,"end":566.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.8959687500001,"end":567.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.3134687500001,"end":568.6003437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.41,"end":3.295,"text":"謝謝主席請主席邀請王部長請王部長"},{"start":8.405,"end":35.834,"text":"市長早今天委員會就是針對這個道交條例七之一還有六十三還有六十三之二這個修正案來進行詢答我想針對這個部分的一個調整對交通部來說真的也是吃力不討好這個部分我們知道就是說我們會做這樣的調整當然也是有很大的一個名義就是事實上在去年就是說"},{"start":36.494,"end":52.405,"text":"有很多的鄉親他們也是反映就是說因為這樣子的一個檢舉制度那造成就是說他們這個祭典這個祭典的這個這個點數啊就是已經達到就是吊扣駕照這樣子的一個程度"},{"start":52.845,"end":53.345,"text":"報告報告報告報告報告報告報告"},{"start":73.652,"end":73.792,"text":"法令規則"},{"start":100.603,"end":124.754,"text":"就是都是基於這個安全道路安全的一個考量我想這個應該就是我們最基礎的應該是要回歸到這個來思考那當然就是說目前這樣子一個調整是比較我想應該是比較不得不的一個調整那是不是也可以請部長再稍微說明一下就是說當然做了這個調整之後我們未來要怎樣再來做"},{"start":125.374,"end":125.434,"text":"條例第16條"},{"start":141.012,"end":159.531,"text":"去年大概這時候在立法院我們當時這個婚委就是新任地獄所以當時對處罰條例相關的這個課題作為比較這個大家都覺得要加入更嚴格的執法但是的確在去年的下半年實施以後"},{"start":160.091,"end":184.758,"text":"就是委員所提的包括職業駕駛也包括一般民眾就是因為環境還沒有整頓完以後當開放民眾檢舉造成很大生活上的困擾所以的確我們在這一次我常常講說這個我個人要取消這十項也是天人交戰但是我在這邊就跟委員報告這是一個"},{"start":186.062,"end":201.023,"text":"相關環境還沒有整斷之前的一個權宜措施但是我們相關的環境包括行人設施條例包括我們4年400億的這些行人的相關設施的這些計劃已經在行政院都支持了"},{"start":201.583,"end":218.493,"text":"這意思是說行政院支持這個包括法令、立法院也支持法令錢也都給了那我們再利用這四年時間把環境整頓好包括停車的地方包括剛才談到裝卸車位等等的把它整頓好那當然"},{"start":219.273,"end":235.718,"text":"到時候在這個整個這個處罰條例事實上每年都會在立法院都會可以做一些討論當然有有一定的成效環境的整頓好以後我是覺得還是可以再再討論那第二個是這是不開放民眾檢舉但是民眾還是可以打110報案"},{"start":237.438,"end":251.665,"text":"就是所以也不會說就是不處理讓它變成一個大違規的這個狀況所以我想說這部分我們也跟警政署再討論一下就在未來在108案裡面要怎麼來處理這個部分也會再持續的這個強化"},{"start":254.309,"end":274.082,"text":"對,部長剛剛講到就是說開放110的一個報案那當然這又是回到實務面的一個問題可能也會造成因為警力不足沒有辦法立即處理的一個狀況所以我想這個可能都還是會有很多實際面我們要去面對跟檢討的那我想這個因為時間關係也沒有辦法在這裡做很詳細的一個討論那當然就是說我們的政策跟制度我們應該還是就是要"},{"start":283.768,"end":311.235,"text":"回到就是這個道路安全交通安全這樣子一個思維來思考那當然剛剛部長有講說這樣的調整當然也是一個不得不的目前的一個調整的措施那未來就是會針對這個整個道路的設施來做一個改善那在這裡我再先請教一下就是說因為這樣子一個祭典那目前當然我們就是會就是會先取消就是在"},{"start":312.975,"end":336.696,"text":"一千兩百塊的這個罰款這樣子的一個行為下不開放檢舉當然就是說對比較重大違規的部分還是有檢舉可是有檢舉祭典的部分還是會延伸出一些問題就是有關這個祭典黃牛的這個行為那這個部分因為我們當然就是說這樣的一個處罰我們當然還是就是要"},{"start":338.317,"end":356.491,"text":"約束這個實際的駕駛人、行為人希望他們能夠就是讓他們知道這個違規然後能夠來改正可是如果說衍生出這個祭典黃柳這部分我想這個又已經走偏了上市了我們的這個法令的一個原意所以這部分我們有去做檢討嗎?"},{"start":358.353,"end":372.958,"text":"對,這一次修改也是這樣,就民眾卷舉的部分不祭典了。因為他可能沒有辦法像警話到現場看到當事者是誰,然後開這個當事人的這個祭典。然後另外就是"},{"start":374.118,"end":401.616,"text":"這個科技質問法的部分也一樣就是說科技法拍到一個人的比如說他是闖紅燈好了結果要找到的那一個人就是委員所提的很多這個找一個冒牌的人或是所謂的祭典黃牛出來所以在這一次裡面就是進行舉發包括民眾檢舉跟科技質問法部分也不祭典那大家要由警方現場確定是誰的時候再祭典所以這個課題大概這一次也是做一個處理"},{"start":402.332,"end":412.519,"text":"提到的這整個交通環境的一個改善行人道路設施的一個改善那在這邊當然也要先再次的感謝我們就是這幾年交通部就是說在前瞻特別預算裡面有補助地方"},{"start":428.871,"end":445.812,"text":"就是來這個新建這個停車場的一個設施。那之後在這個前瞻計畫之後我們交通部是不是還會有這樣子的一個規劃。那因為我們知道就是說你停車位不足然後要就是要求民眾就是在這個停車"},{"start":447.694,"end":464.267,"text":"報告說不停騎樓啦或者是說一些地方就是停車的問題真的還是要回到這個停車空間的一個問題來解決所以這個停車場的部分我們之後還有沒有新的一個政策目前就是200加60、260億然後想說在下一任的這個"},{"start":472.012,"end":500.491,"text":"這個包括院長或是這個部長他們可能會做一個考量比如下一期有沒有再一個這個改善停車問題的下一期目前是我們還沒有研擬因為這個到114所以我們現在就是把已經在動工的什麼就趕快完成啊比如說從115以後有沒有那個那個可能在會再做一個決定那我個人是覺得的確你要整頓路邊停車真的是路外的停車場是最重要的一個部分"},{"start":501.752,"end":511.639,"text":"提出這個停車空間當然除了停車場的興建之外當然就是會涉及到可能還是要跟地方政府一起去盤點就是說什麼樣的區域區塊的停車問題要怎麼解決"},{"start":516.903,"end":545.377,"text":"因為我們知道就是說有一些住宅密集區他巷道可能就6米寬那附近也沒有什麼停車空間那如果說我們禁止他騎樓停車的時候他可能真的沒地方停車那我如果要開放的話這個可能又不是交通部可以進行做決定的所以我們也希望就是說透過中央地方一起來檢討努力讓我們就是有關這個停車問題也好或者是交通安全問題能夠更完善"},{"start":545.717,"end":545.737,"text":"謝謝部長。"}]}},{"id":"151442","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151442","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445ac68629f341ba84251d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c9422361ff6ef9879315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"10:54:29 - 11:04:55","影片長度":"00:10:26","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":626,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:04:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:54:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":378,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（10時54分）好，謝謝召委，我們先請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。我是把握機會多跟你聊天，不然快沒有機會了。一樣，今天我們要審所謂的道交條例，但是在審查道交條例之前，我想請教部長，這兩天我們三讀通過行人交通安全設施條例，當時在內政委員會聯席會議時，我有去質詢，行人交通安全設施條例一定是關係到行人安全的問題，請問這個條例的主管機關到底是誰？就目前的結果來講，主管機關分為交通部跟內政部，那麼到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全這件事上面，你們是怎麼分工的？"],["王部長國材：目前是內政部，主要原因是現在的行人設施大部分是在都市計畫區內，由國土署所管，所以當時在院裡面這個條例是由內政部提出來，而我們是負責有關道安及相關改善部分，就是我們的公路系統，比如公路系統要做人行的話，就由我們當主管單位，像台1線要做人行道、台3線要做人行道，這個就由我們來處理。"],["黃委員健豪：所以都市計畫區內歸內政部，都市計畫區外歸你們？"],["王部長國材：就是這個條例的主管機關是在內政部。"],["黃委員健豪：好，如果這個條例的主管機關是內政部，那後續在執行道交條例的時候，這個我當時質詢時也有提到，道交條例有關於道路的定義，人行道也是道路的一種……"],["王部長國材：是，是。"],["黃委員健豪：所以道交條例也有規範到人行道？"],["王部長國材：有，有。"],["黃委員健豪：政府做的人行道，包含退縮地、騎樓、標線型……"],["王部長國材：對，這個有定義。"],["黃委員健豪：對啊！問題的重點是談到有關行人安全的問題，包含道交條例的修正，可能一部分是為了解決行人地獄的問題，這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確出來，我想後續的討論會很難進行下去，所以我今天一開始就先問，行人交通安全設施條例已經三讀了，而這個三讀通過的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼？"],["王部長國材：應該這樣講，設施條例裡面規定，比如障礙物的移除要罰款，這個就在內政部，該提年度計畫做人行道，這個也都在設施條例裡面，但是有關於處罰或一些工程部分，則是在我們交通部，比如占用人行道處罰600元，這部分就在我們的處罰條例裡面。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝部長，我是覺得聽起來蠻有爭議性的，沒有辦法很明確的定義，這樣對於地方上在執行時會有疑義產生，到底往上找是要找誰？沒關係，我們下次再繼續討論。","接下來我想跟部長分享遞送服務業，我想這次的道交條例修正，主要倒也不是說被罰錢的問題，現在最主要的問題，就是去年我們提出記點作法，然後現在又提出來想要改變這個作法，我想最嚴重的問題在於民眾被罰錢又被記點，這件事情衝擊到了某些行業的生存問題，比如我就先提遞送服務業，他們109年的總收入是597億，這是你們提出的報告，111年的總收入達到995億，光從數字上來看就可以知道所謂遞送服務業，就是貨運業者，包含快遞、外送跟餐飲服務等等，漲幅非常非常多，紅線違停、臨停的這些違規，據我了解，多數、八成貨運公司會幫司機負擔罰款，但是記點則算在司機身上，所以今天才會有這個問題。之前業者也提過希望能夠解決這個問題，因為他們要營業就需要有地方停車，所以去年就提出要增設貨車裝卸區的停車格，部長，你知道這個會議開完之後，全臺灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎？"],["林司長福山：這個部分跟委員報告一下，去年有要求各地方政府跟當地的公工會大家去討論，然後盤點需求。目前主要盤點出來大概是在六都，公會所建議的部分大概有四百多處，目前各地方政府大概完成二百多處，另外地方政府自己盤點出來需要畫紅黃線的部分大概有九百多處，目前大概完成七百多處，這是比較多的部分。至於前面公工會建議的部分，我們現在是每兩個月找一個地方政府來跟這些路權團體還有駕駛人團體共同來盤點，然後每三個月公布相關的情況。"],["黃委員健豪：所以你的數字全國是增加200個貨車停車格？"],["林司長福山：這個部分大概主要是集中在六都，他們找當地的計程車或者是貨運公會去盤點出來，其他16個縣市的部分，地方政府的反應是說當地的工、公會是沒有提出什麼樣的需求，那就由地方政府自己來做一個盤點。"],["黃委員健豪：今天都會區裡面，尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨需求的地方，如果它的貨運停車問題沒有解決，那我們再怎麼修法，它還是會存在這個樣態。除了貨車之外，我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題，如果他沒有地方停車，他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車，那他當然就很容易被檢舉，被檢舉那當然就會被記點，被記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響，所以才有這個問題。","我想問一下部長，以你們現在的數字，你覺得全臺灣增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區卸貨的問題嗎？"],["王部長國材：是，因為這個跟工、公會討論，我們去年給它的時程就是在6月底都要完成，他們提出了四百多格，還有包括黃線的部分，我們現在就是列管，到6月全部都完成。當然，這是跟他們討論的結果，在每個路段哪裡要設，如果四百多格設完以後有需求，那當然還可以再討論。"],["黃委員健豪：我想，今天這個問題跟內政部也有一定程度的關係，就是在道路設計上，我們道路有沒有規劃這些臨時停車的空間，如果沒有規劃好，當然長期都會有這個問題。","另外，在貨車停車格部分，我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議，歐洲或各國都已經在做類似的狀況，我們的貨運業者現在當然都是用大型的貨車在做運送，但是歐洲很多國家是小型的城市，城市的路幅比較狹小，因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道。我們常常會建議，我們是不是人行道能夠拓寬一點，能夠讓行人空間增加，常常交通單位給我們的回復是，這樣子我們整個城市的車容量會不夠。今天車容量不夠是因為我們都是用大型的貨運車在做，如果今天交通部能夠重新思考整個臺灣在城市裡面到底適合哪一種貨運方式，是不是可以參考這些歐洲國家，他們把人行道拓寬了，把道路縮小，所以同步的，在他們貨運的車輛也能夠縮小的情況下，是不是就能夠一併的解決這個問題？部長。"],["王部長國材：這個就要有需求啦！現在很多物流車都是載蠻多的貨物，那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式，這個還是一樣，就是要看那個城市的需求，但是現在很多的物流是大車走主幹線來以後，在地區的hub裡面也會換小車，也有一些三輪的機車，我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求。"],["黃委員健豪：你們要輔導啊！一定有這個需求，大車走主幹線一樣會遇到我們上一頁提到的這個問題，他一樣沒地方臨停卸貨，給車走的道路幅度會一直受限於車輛的大小，所以給車走的繼續維持這種很大的道路。如果今天我們提到要解決行人、交通及行人地獄的問題，希望巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候，你的路幅縮小，當然同步就要有配套措施出來，我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂的配套措施，是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具存在，有這樣子的可能性。在歐洲各國或美國，他們的運輸量不會比我們低啦！對不對？部長。"],["王部長國材：這個就是從運具，讓它在適合的街道走，司長看這個有沒有違反什麼規定？"],["林司長福山：這個部分我再補充一點，現行國內的部分大概是大車到小貨車，進到巷弄現在有三輪電動機車載貨，如果要思考三輪腳踏車的部分，原則上我們都可以來思考，但是這個東西必須有需求、地方相關的配套做好，因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治，訂自治條例就可以去做處理，這個部分我們來配合業界的需求，跟地方政府來合作，看看在什麼地方試辦會比較適當。"],["黃委員健豪：好，因為時間到了，我拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃，提供多項的運具選擇，來解決這個停車的問題。"],["王部長國材：好，我們研究一下。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝，黃健豪委員發言完畢。","現在請陳素月委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.8997187500000003,"end":5.5153437499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.9372187499999995,"end":6.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.20221875,"end":11.219093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.219093750000003,"end":11.235968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.235968750000001,"end":11.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.25284375,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.77596875,"end":11.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.029093750000001,"end":15.960968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.72909375,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.21409375,"end":23.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.95971875,"end":51.719093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.854093750000004,"end":52.140968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.20846875,"end":54.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.110968750000005,"end":56.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.157218750000006,"end":67.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.46346875,"end":77.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.99346875,"end":82.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.53284375000001,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.49471875,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.53596875000001,"end":93.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.88159375000001,"end":92.45534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.56909375000001,"end":95.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.84721875000001,"end":96.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.52221875000001,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.28909375,"end":106.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.30971875,"end":109.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.80284375000001,"end":112.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.11471875000001,"end":112.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.78971875,"end":116.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.14784375,"end":116.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.72159375000001,"end":123.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.02034375000001,"end":123.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.80909375,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.15909375000001,"end":146.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.60721875000002,"end":149.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.28596875000002,"end":156.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.44534375,"end":158.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.97659375,"end":165.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.31721875000002,"end":168.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.56159375000001,"end":171.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.93659375000001,"end":176.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.62346875,"end":180.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.94784375,"end":182.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.77034375000002,"end":206.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.13159375,"end":193.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.96909375,"end":219.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.77721875,"end":242.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.47409375,"end":269.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.99721875,"end":277.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.35034375000004,"end":327.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.92909375,"end":328.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.63784375,"end":333.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.78471875,"end":352.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.00534375,"end":360.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.85221875,"end":386.11409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.38409375000003,"end":392.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.04971875,"end":394.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.51784375,"end":406.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.20784375000005,"end":421.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.15909375,"end":429.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.51659375,"end":437.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.71409375,"end":435.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.25784375,"end":439.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.72596875000005,"end":446.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.40409375,"end":472.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.68284375,"end":476.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.96909375,"end":478.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.80846875000003,"end":497.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.79846875000004,"end":488.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.84909375,"end":489.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.70846875,"end":503.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.88471875000005,"end":521.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.7722187500001,"end":527.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.61096875,"end":539.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.0690937500001,"end":539.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.2378437500001,"end":540.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.6428437500001,"end":571.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.02596875,"end":574.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.46034375,"end":573.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.15221875,"end":578.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.7422187500001,"end":582.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.91034375,"end":614.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.7365937500001,"end":622.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.09409375,"end":624.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.41471875,"end":622.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.08971875,"end":624.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.64221875,"end":626.21159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.915,"end":4.256,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條之二條文修正草案案"},{"start":24.391,"end":51.547,"text":"這兩天我們三度通過了這個行人交通安全設施條例那時候我在內政委員會的時候也有去質詢那時候聯席的時候我有質詢我請問一下說這個行人安全交通安全設施條例因為是關係到行人安全的問題這個東西的主管機關到底是誰就目前的結果來講主管機關分為交通部跟內政部那我想先詢問一下到底交通部跟內政部在行人安全上面這件事你們怎麼分工"},{"start":52.567,"end":52.748,"text":"議員提出"},{"start":68.51,"end":81.699,"text":"我們就是包括像相關的道安還有一些相關的這些改善的一部分就負責我們這個公務系統的部分比如說如來公務系統要做人行的話我們就由我們當這個主管單位"},{"start":83.527,"end":86.81,"text":"提到道路關於道路的定義裡面人行道也是道路的一種"},{"start":112.89,"end":138.019,"text":"所以道交條例也有規範到人行道?有有。人行道包含了我們政府做的人行道,包含退縮地,包含棋樓,包含標線型。這個有它的定義,對。對啊,那我說這個像今天因為我們今天重點要談到的是說行人安全的問題,好,包含今天道交條例的修正是為了可能一部分是為了解決行人地域的問題,那這件事情如果主管機關沒有明確的出來的話我想"},{"start":138.759,"end":149.668,"text":"後續的討論我們就很難進行下去所以我今天才想一開始先問說我們這個行人交通安全社條例它已經三讀了嘛那這個三讀的法案到底跟交通部之間的關聯性是什麼"},{"start":151.983,"end":176.11,"text":"應該這樣在設施條例裡面規定比如說障礙物的移除我要罰款這個就是在這個內政部該提年度計劃做人行道這個部分都是在這個設施條例裡面但是有關於處罰或是有一些部分的工程是在我們這邊比如說這個佔用人行道的處罰600塊這些部分就是在我們的處罰條例裡面"},{"start":177.679,"end":205.891,"text":"好,謝謝部長那其實這個還是蠻我就覺得聽起來是蠻蠻有爭議性的蠻有蠻有沒辦法很定義很明確啊因為這個我覺得這個對於地方上在執行的時候都會有個疑義都到底是要找往上找要找誰沒關係那我們下次再繼續討論喔接下來我想問一下跟部長分享這個遞送服務業我想這一次我們會有這個道路交通管理的修正最主要的倒也不是說被罰錢的問題現在最主要的問題我想會從去年提出這個"},{"start":207.652,"end":222.808,"text":"記點然後現在又提出來想要改變這問題最嚴重的問題就在於說是記點那民眾被罰錢又被記點那這件事情衝擊到了某些行業他的生存的問題比如說我先提到地中服務業的總收入109年的時候就597億這是你們提出的報告111年他的總收入達到995億"},{"start":229.295,"end":243.011,"text":"所以我們從光從數字上來看就可以知道說所謂遞送服務業就這些貨運啊這些送這些貨運業者啊包含外快呃快遞跟外送跟餐飲服務等等的他的漲幅漲了非常非常的多那紅線維庭林庭這些違規頭貨運公司當然"},{"start":246.135,"end":268.361,"text":"八成多數的居住所料業界罰款會幫司機來負擔但是計點是算在這個司機的身上那我想才會有這個問題那之前我想這個業者他們也提過一個希望能夠解決這個問題因為你就是要營業嘛所以他們需要地方停車所以在去年的時候去年也有去提說要來增設這個"},{"start":270.531,"end":276.417,"text":"貨車的停車格、貨車裝卸區的停車格。那部長你知道這個會議開完之後全台灣增加了幾個貨車停車格嗎?"},{"start":279.074,"end":298.732,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下去年有要求就是說各地方政府跟當地的這個公共會大家要去做討論然後盤點這個需求那主要目前盤點出來大概是在這個六都啦那六都就是說公共會所建議的部分大概有這個400多處目前這個就是說各地方政府大概完成這個200多個"},{"start":301.554,"end":327.292,"text":"另外有一個部分的話大概地方政府他們自己去盤出來就是要劃紅黃線的部分大概有900這個多數那目前大概完成700這個多數這個是比較多的部分那前面那個部分就是說公共會建議的部分的話我們現在是就是說會每兩個月找一個地方政府來做跟這些陸續團團體還有這些駕駛人團體大家共同來做盤點然後每三個月會公佈相關的一個情況"},{"start":328.012,"end":351.793,"text":"所以全國增加你的數是200個停車增加200個貨車停車格這個部分是就大概主要是集中在這個六都啊那他們找當地的這些計程車或者是貨運工會去盤點出來那其他16個縣市的部分的話大概就地方政府的一個這個反應是說當地的公共會是沒有提出什麼樣的一個需求那就由他們地方政府自己來做一個盤點"},{"start":353.123,"end":373.94,"text":"因為今天這問題是這樣,如果今天都會區裡面尤其像這種都市區有很多裝卸貨的需求的地方,如果他的這個貨運停車問題沒有解決,那我們再怎麼修法,他還是會存在這個樣態嘛。今天除了貨車之外我想包含計程車也是有類似的問題。如果他沒有地方停車,他就只能紅線停車或只能黃線停車。"},{"start":375.221,"end":391.771,"text":"答案就很容易被檢舉那被檢舉那當然就會記點記點了他當然就會覺得他的生計受到影響所以才有這個問題那如果今天我想問一下部長你覺得全台灣增加以你們現在的數字增加200個貨車停車格能夠解決我們現在在都會區"},{"start":393.132,"end":420.96,"text":"卸貨的問題嗎?是,因為這個跟公共會討論啊。我們去年的給他的這個時程就是在6月底啊。6月底都要完成。所以他們提出了400多個還有包括黃線的鋪我們現在就是列管到6月6月全部都要完成。那當然就是說這是跟他們討論的結果在每個路段要哪裡要設。那如果後面當然如果有需求比如說設完以後400多個設完以後有需求那當然還可以再討論。"},{"start":422.196,"end":437.017,"text":"稍微想今天這個問題又涉及到其實這跟內政部也有一定程度的關係就到底我們道路設計我們道路有沒有規劃說給這些臨時停車的空間如果沒有規劃好當然一直都有長期會有這個問題所以這部分另外我們希望說"},{"start":438.258,"end":461.264,"text":"我們看下一頁在貨車停車格部分其實我們想要提出一個比較開創性的建議其實歐洲或各國都有在做類似的狀況我們這個貨運業者現在當然都是大型的貨車在做運送但是歐洲很多國家他當然是小型的這個城市他城市的路幅比較小小因為他把很多道路空間拿來做人行道"},{"start":461.664,"end":462.184,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":478.849,"end":479.409,"text":"答案答案答案"},{"start":503.942,"end":526.928,"text":"那像歐洲這種用三輪腳踏車的這個方式這個還是一樣就是要看那個城市的需求但是現在很多現在的這個物流很多是大車在左主幹線來以後也會換小車在地區的這個hub裡面對然後三輪的機車也有一些我想這部分就看未來有沒有這樣的需求"},{"start":527.668,"end":548.295,"text":"你們要輔導啊,你們要提供這樣的需求,你們一定要有這個需求啊。大車走主幹線當然,大車走主幹線他一樣會遇到我們剛剛上一頁提到的這個問題嘛,一樣他沒地方淋停卸貨。你的道路幅度,你的道路的這個給車走的,你會一直限售限於車輛的大小。所以你給車走的你繼續的維持這種很大的道路。"},{"start":548.815,"end":577.856,"text":"那如果今天我們行政院提到了要解決行人交通而且要解決這個行人地域的問題當然希望說巷道裡面巷弄裡面也能夠有人行道的時候你的路幅縮小那他當然他同步的就要配套措施出來那我今天提到的這個是希望有所謂配套措施是輔導或讓業者知道有這樣子的運具的存在有這樣子的可能性在歐洲各國或美國他們他們的運輸量不會比我們低對不對部長這個就是從運具讓他在適合的街道走"},{"start":578.777,"end":601.54,"text":"我是不是我們是市長看有沒有這個這個有沒有違反什麼規這個部分我大概補充一點就是說現行國內的部分的話大概是大車到小貨車然後進到像現在有這個三輪電動機車的這個載貨那如果說要這個思考這個三輪腳踏車的部分原則上我們都可以來思考那但是這個東西必須就是有需求那地方相關的這個配套做好"},{"start":601.9,"end":619.831,"text":"那因為三輪慢車的部分是屬於地方自治可以他去可以訂自治條例就可以去做處理啊這個部分我們來配合業界的需求跟地方政府來這一個呃這個合作看看在什麼地方示範會比較適當好最後因為時間到了我就拜託交通部往這個方向多多規劃提供多項的運具選擇齁來解決這個停車的問題好我們就一下謝部長謝謝謝主席謝謝黃建豪"}]}},{"id":"151441","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151441","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4451a5e569d4522c8fbf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94f3ee4f7ce62287085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"12:02:54 - 12:11:44","影片長度":"00:08:50","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":530,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:11:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T12:02:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":443,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（12時3分）主席，有請周秘書長。"],["主席：好，秘書長請。"],["周秘書長萬來：沈委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：周秘書長早，現在已經是午安了。請問周秘書長，你在立法院服務多久了？"],["周秘書長萬來：我當考試委員之前是38年2個月，現在來了大概有兩個多月。"],["沈委員發惠：我自己在1992年，那時候正好國會全面改選，第2屆立法院的時候，當時我就在這邊當助理，我大學剛畢業來這裡當助理。在我印象中，那時候秘書長已經是議事……"],["周秘書長萬來：我那時候是議事組主任。"],["沈委員發惠：議事組主任，所以我是久仰周秘書長的大名，在我們還是小助理的時候，那時候有很多議事上面的問題都要請教周秘書長。這麼多年，從第2屆立法院到現在已經第11屆了，我們今年是第11屆了，周秘書長可以說是看到整個立法院變化的過程。","所謂的國會改革並不是說我們今天開始在國會改革，事實上，從1992年在第1屆國會，那時候萬年國會不用改選，那個時候幾乎是毫無制度。那1992年之後，自從立法院定期改選之後，立法院整個規則幾乎每一屆都在做一些改變跟改革，對不對？是不是？"],["周秘書長萬來：應該這樣講，在81年的時候是還有改選，82年以後就是第2屆開始全面改選。"],["沈委員發惠：對。"],["周秘書長萬來：那中間當然有多次為了立法院的內規，大概外界所談的就是88年的五法，就是第4屆進來的五法，其實在政黨輪替以後，第4屆的時候又大幅地改變一次。"],["沈委員發惠：對，其實在整個過程，我記得那時候1992年改選，你剛剛講民國82年，就是1993年就職，我是那時候進來，我記得那時候根本還沒有什麼朝野協商，制度或法制化都還沒有，純粹就是一步一步這樣子改革過來。我要講的是，我們現在大張旗鼓說國會改革法案，其實一點都不新鮮，因為從1993年到現在，在整個過程中，我們立法院針對運作上面，大家有發生扞格或者是有爭議之後，就會經過朝野大家共同來解決，有新的辦法，所以大家在這一段時間所看到的這些國會的相關立法、改變國會制度的一些立法，它其實就是這個過程裡面的一環。","我看到每一個政黨有每一個政黨的版本，我們禮拜一在這邊，秘書長從頭坐到尾，在旁邊看到委員也上演了一齣我個人認為程序上面很有瑕疵的一個審查會。我們看到這一次大家所提出來、各個黨派所提出來的法案裡面，其實都有各種不一樣的面向，我比較遺憾的就是禮拜一所通過的這些其實基本上都是立法權的擴張，就是立法院職權擴張的相關法條，包括要把總統國情報告常態化、質詢化，人事同意權、緊急命令的追認、總統彈劾的相關質詢，還有質詢的規範要讓立法院可以移送行政官員，立法權可以移送行政權讓司法權來裁判，這在我看來是三權分立的一個新的理論。另外，還有立法院正副院長選舉，甚至還有刑法的藐視國會罪等相關的立法，我看到這些都是立法權的擴張。","但是國會改革的面向，這一次我們民進黨團所提出來的整套國會改革法案，其實不只是立法院職權行使法這個部分而已，事實上，我們還有提出包括強化秘密會議的規範，這個也是社會關注的。之前社會非常關注在立法院所召開的秘密會議到底秘不秘密，這個秘密會議的結果，到底我們立法委員自己有沒有辦法盡到保密的義務。","另外，跟秘書長可能最有關的，就是我們強化國會的資通安全，資通安全的強化在我們現在所有的行政單位，每一個行政單位其實都已經規定他們必須要有資通安全的專責負責，但是在立法院還沒有，還沒有資通長的制度設計，這個也在我們民進黨的國會改革方案裡面。","再來就是強化幕僚單位、提升專業能量，如果這些改革方案能夠照民進黨的版本通過，我相信未來秘書長在立法院，整個立法院的職能都能夠大幅提升。","國會改革除了國會擴權之外，還有一個很重要的面向是國會的自律。國會的自律就包括我剛剛所講的國會自己的秘密會議規範、我們國會的資通安全的強化，更重要的包括國會自主的反對性平歧視的相關規範，還有其他如果國會議員涉及犯罪之後的司法移送，這些屬於國會自律面向的部分。關於這部分，我覺得，在禮拜一開快車的過程中，整個國會改革會被扭曲成是國會自己的擴權，就只有看到國會擴權的面向，對此我個人深感遺憾。這個部分，要請秘書長來表示，目前立法院有關資通安全的部分，有做什麼樣的強化？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為現在掌管資通安全的資安長就是副秘書長，民進黨所提的版本我也都拜讀過，將來也是要由副秘書長兼任資安長，要設一個資通安全處，增加一些員額。剛才主席也特別說，大概下禮拜會排案，我們針對幕僚的強化有一些看法，會再跟各位委員報告。"],["沈委員發惠：這個禮拜排的法案，像立法院職權行使法的部分，都比較具政治性，不同的政黨有不同的看法，但是下個禮拜我們民進黨所提出的國會改革的版本，就真的是針對國會的自律及專業資安方面的提升，這個部分我想秘書長應該可以言所當言，不必像現在站在這裡說全部都不便評論，到時候你就要好好來評論這些相關的法案，好不好？"],["周秘書長萬來：我們會提一些看法，包括法制局、預算中心用聘用還是其他方式，因為聘用會涉及聘用人員相關法規，所以可能是要轉為用聘任的方式，但是我們有一些看法。謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：好，我知道，謝謝秘書長。"],["主席（鍾委員佳濱）：好，謝謝周秘書長，謝謝沈委員。","接下來有請謝委員龍介詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.800968750000003,"end":16.500968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.73721875,"end":17.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.93909375,"end":21.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.85034375,"end":23.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.68971875,"end":25.832843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.96784375,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.84534375,"end":30.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.367843750000002,"end":35.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.31221875,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.00784375,"end":44.243468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.766593750000006,"end":56.477843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.017843750000004,"end":59.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.59971875,"end":63.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.71721875,"end":73.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.75784375,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.30971875,"end":87.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.46034375,"end":88.23659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.92846875000001,"end":90.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.25721875,"end":102.36096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.58034375000001,"end":108.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.80721875,"end":111.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.59159375,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.56596875000001,"end":116.68784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.89034375000001,"end":118.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.89846875,"end":119.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.11346875000001,"end":121.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.59846875000001,"end":128.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.06596875000001,"end":128.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.44971875000002,"end":146.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.24971875,"end":139.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.48096875000002,"end":149.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.33659375000002,"end":157.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.33534375000002,"end":163.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.41034375,"end":168.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.40534375000001,"end":170.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.58659375000002,"end":180.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.99846875,"end":184.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.93034375000002,"end":187.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.25471875000002,"end":195.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.96659375000002,"end":208.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.57221875000002,"end":209.29784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.93909375,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.39846875,"end":226.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.03346875000003,"end":227.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.38346875000002,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.12159375000002,"end":231.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.43784375,"end":235.04909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.15034375000002,"end":235.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.41596875000002,"end":238.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.91346875000002,"end":248.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.34221875000003,"end":270.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.73971875,"end":275.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.52784375000005,"end":281.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.01221875000005,"end":288.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.91409375,"end":294.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.65159375,"end":296.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.91284375000004,"end":304.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.18159375000005,"end":320.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.53784375000004,"end":334.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.42596875000004,"end":335.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.79284375000003,"end":352.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.91659375,"end":357.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.25346875,"end":383.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.51534375,"end":386.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.65409375,"end":389.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.04596875000004,"end":394.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.27721875000003,"end":407.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.79846875000004,"end":410.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.20721875000004,"end":421.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.87346875000003,"end":414.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.87221875,"end":422.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.08721875000003,"end":432.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.68909375000004,"end":433.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.30909375000005,"end":438.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.61221875,"end":440.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.84846875000005,"end":439.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.80596875000003,"end":441.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.03784375000004,"end":474.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.28346875000005,"end":463.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.96534375000005,"end":478.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.52159375,"end":509.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.25096875,"end":510.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.75284375,"end":511.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.83721875000003,"end":526.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.5109687500001,"end":520.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.82221875,"end":528.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.58534375,"end":530.0747187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.1,"end":17.622,"text":"主席我們有請周秘書長周秘書長早現在已經午安了周秘書長在立法院服務多久我當考試委員之前是38年兩個月現在來了大概有兩個多月"},{"start":40.892,"end":56.227,"text":"我自己我1992年那時候我們正好國會全面改選第二屆立法院的時候那時候我就在這邊當助理我大學剛畢業來這邊當助理我印象中那時候"},{"start":56.988,"end":59.029,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":79.366,"end":89.985,"text":"已經第十一屆了我們現在也第十一屆了嘛齁這個州民黨可以說整個都看到這整個立法院變化的過程事實上所謂的國會改革"},{"start":91.431,"end":119.174,"text":"並不是說我們今天開始在國會改革事實上從1992年在第一屆國會那時候萬年國會不用改選那個時候是幾乎是毫無制度了那這個92年之後自從這個立法院定期改選之後這個我們在立法院整個規則幾乎每一屆都在做一些改變跟改革嘛對不對是不是"},{"start":120.228,"end":148.387,"text":"應該這樣講,因為在81年的時候是還有改選的82年由第二屆開始全面改選那中間當然有多次的為了立法院的內規在外界所談的就是88年那個無法就第四屆進來的那個無法那其實在政黨輪替以後第四屆的時候又大幅的改變其實在整個過程的整個過程包括我記得那時候1992年"},{"start":150.389,"end":152.473,"text":"改選93年你剛講民國82年就1993年開始就職對那時候我那時候進來"},{"start":159.057,"end":180.234,"text":"我記得那時候根本還沒有什麼草野協商法制化都還沒有就純粹都是這樣一步一步這樣子改革過來了所以其實我要講的就是這樣子其實我們現在說大張旗鼓說國會改革法案其實一點都不新鮮因為在這整個從1993年到現在整個過程"},{"start":184.963,"end":209.06,"text":"大概我們立法院針對我們運作上面我們大家有發生漢革或者是有爭議之後我們大家就會經過朝野大家共同來解決新的辦法所以我在講說這一次我們大家在這段時間所看到的這些相關的這些國會國會的立法國會制度的一些改變的立法它其實就是這樣的過程裡面的一環那我看到"},{"start":210.818,"end":237.855,"text":"這個每一個政黨每一個政黨的版本那我們在禮拜一也在這邊上演了一齣這個這個秘書長從頭做到尾在旁邊看到尾然後也上了一齣這個這個我個人認為程序上面很有瑕疵的一個一個審查會啦齁那這個我們看到其實國會這次大家所提出來各個黨黨派所提出來的法案裡面其實都有各種不一樣的面向"},{"start":238.973,"end":246.667,"text":"我比較遺憾的就是說我們看到在禮拜一我們看到的我們所通過的這些其實基本上都是立法權的擴張"},{"start":249.534,"end":275.433,"text":"這是立法院職權擴張的相關法條。包括要把總統國情報告常態化、質詢化、人事同意權及命令權的追認、總統彈劾的相關質詢,還有質詢的規範要讓立法院可以移送行政官員,立法權可以移送行政權,到讓司法權來裁判。"},{"start":276.841,"end":302.62,"text":"這是三權分立的一個新的理論另外還有立法院總副院長選舉甚至還有刑法的藐視國會罪等相關的立法所以我看到這些都是立法權的擴張但其實國會改革的面向由我們民進黨團所提出來這次整套的國會改革的法案其實不只是"},{"start":305.362,"end":319.757,"text":"立法院職權行使法這樣子一個部分而已。事實上我們還有再提出一些包括這個強化秘密會議的規範這個也是社會關注的在之前社會非常關注在立法院所召開的秘密會議它到底秘不秘密"},{"start":320.598,"end":335.035,"text":"他這個秘密會議的結果他到底到底這個這個我們立法委員自己有沒有辦法保守這個這個保密的義務那另外包括這個強我們跟秘書長可能最有關的我們強化國會的知通知通安全"},{"start":335.816,"end":336.637,"text":"之三及第二十八條之四條文"},{"start":353.953,"end":375.351,"text":"再來就是強化幕僚單位提升專業能量這些如果我們民進黨這些改革方案能夠這樣照民進黨版本通過我相信未來我們秘書長在立法院整個我們立法院的職能都可以大幅的提升那另外還有這個這個也就是說除了國會改革其實除了國會擴權以外還有一個很重要的變相是國會的自律"},{"start":376.432,"end":393.045,"text":"國會的自律就包括我剛剛所講的這個國會自己的這個秘密會議規範我們國會的這個這個資通安全的強化更重要的包括我們這個國會自主的這些這些性平反對性平歧視的這些相關的規範那還有這個這個其他"},{"start":395.407,"end":409.575,"text":"涉及犯罪若國會議員涉及犯罪之後的這個這個相關司法移送的這樣子的的屬於國會自律面向的部分那這部分我覺得覺得說說在我們這個禮拜一這樣開快車的過程中整個國會"},{"start":411.26,"end":431.85,"text":"改革被扭曲成是國會自己的擴權,就只有看到國會擴權的面向。這是我個人深感遺憾。這個部分我想要請秘書長來表示,目前我們立法院有關這個資通安全的部分我們有做什麼樣的強化?"},{"start":434.393,"end":435.395,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具"},{"start":449.955,"end":454.999,"text":"之四條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條之五條"},{"start":479.159,"end":492.455,"text":"立法院職權行使法的部分都比較具政治性就是說不同的政黨有不同的看法但是在下個禮拜我們民進黨所提出的這個國會改革的版本這個就真的是針對我們國會國會的自律以及國會這個這個"},{"start":495.419,"end":523.72,"text":"專業資安方面的提升。」這個部分我想秘書長就應該要可以嚴鎖當嚴了啦。就不必像現在在這裡說全部都不必評論啦。那時候你就要好好的來評論我們有關這些相關的法案這樣好不好?我會提一些看法。包括法治局預算中心的用聘用還是因為聘用就會涉及到聘用聯盟可能是要轉為要用聘任的方式來。"},{"start":524.42,"end":526.403,"text":"但是我們有一些看法,我們有一些看法。"}]}},{"id":"151440","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151440","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445cc9403cf70e1e4ea0525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c942aad447d12a835725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"11:57:13 - 12:09:12","影片長度":"00:11:59","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":719,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:09:12+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:57:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":879,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（11時57分）主席，我們請行政院主計總處主計長。"],["主席：請主計長。"],["陳委員玉珍：我剛剛聽到王委員那個說法，我覺得臺灣的企業很可憐，如果臺灣的市場很小，沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢，然後都還不能去打世界盃，如果外面可以賺錢還不能去的話，這個企業實在太難經營了。","請問主計長有關金門財力分級的議題，主計長，您做到520對吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。應該是。"],["陳委員玉珍：應該是喔？還沒確認是嗎？會繼續幫我們服務嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我會去金門玩的。"],["陳委員玉珍：你會去金門玩，那在去金門之前，你來幫我們關心一下我們金門的財力分級。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，你要請客。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們一定會好好的接待你。"],["朱主計長澤民：感謝。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們金門的財力分級，你知道我們現在第幾級嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：是第3級。"],["陳委員玉珍：第3級嘛，我們一直說我們是離島，我們跟澎湖、馬祖事實上差不多意思吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們是考慮財力來分的，不考慮是不是離島。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，考慮財力，我們第3級的原因是因為我們沒有借錢，對吧？上回我問過你嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，因為金門的財力不錯啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：對，因為我們是好學生嘛，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：不是說好學生啦，是表現……"],["陳委員玉珍：財力不錯有歲計賸餘嘛，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：雖然是第3級，你們給金門的補助款還是持續增加，對吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：當然了，是這樣。"],["陳委員玉珍：你看一下，我們金門明天要舉辦第4次首長聯繫會報，主持人是行政院的張景森政委，就是以前的福建省主席，也是現在金馬中心的算主任還是什麼，反正就是省主席那個位置。他有說針對縣政府希望將財力級次調降為第5級。金門縣人口只有14萬多，全國排名倒數第3，各項基礎建設落後。你去金門參觀的時候也希望看到我們進步一點嘛，那請你協助把我們縣政府的財力級次調降為第5級，請問主計長的態度如何？請你在臨去的時候行善事。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們對級次會有所謂的分配啦！您應該很……"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，你一直說我們的財力好，所以沒有辦法降級嘛，因為我們是好學生，有剩錢所以沒有辦法降……"],["朱主計長澤民：調降的話，其他縣市就升上來了。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛！是不是？當好學生有什麼用？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有、沒有，好學生或是壞學生是兩回事，那個是兩回事。"],["陳委員玉珍：政府努力賺錢，金門縣努力賺錢，金門縣民努力的喝高粱，我們的財力也不錯，所以我們的補助款被……"],["朱主計長澤民：高粱是臺灣人在喝啦……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，根據金門酒廠的買賣，其實從金門賣出去的最多啦。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，金門賣出去都是臺灣人去買的啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：主要是金門啦，當然最後還是臺灣人去買沒錯，謝謝大家啦，但也是我們很努力推銷嘛。你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長，沒有虧待我們，那請問您，過去5年來，107年到112年，主計總處有沒有扣過我們金門縣的補助款？"],["朱主計長澤民：那是因為我們有個公式，是每個人都是一樣的，就是它不是法定的社會福利支出，我們有一定的一個公式，被扣款的不是只有金門。"],["陳委員玉珍：你的意思是我們財力好，歲計有賸餘沒錯，所以第3級嘛，這都沒錯嘛！歲計有賸餘、第3級、財力好，所以我們金門縣政府願意比較照顧金門縣民，做一些社會福利，可是這樣子要被你們懲罰？"],["朱主計長澤民：不是，沒有，那個是非法定的社會福利的話……"],["陳委員玉珍：你聽得懂嗎？我們如果有錢，我們想要對金門縣民照顧一點，你們就要懲罰我們。"],["朱主計長澤民：其他縣市也都有這種情況，我們對金門沒有大小眼，我們對金門還特別好咧！"],["陳委員玉珍：你扣我們的補助款，原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好，所以你們不鼓勵縣政府、地方政府對縣民的福利做好一點？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們希望就像您剛才講的……"],["陳委員玉珍：就是因為我們財力比較好，所以我們不能照顧縣民？"],["朱主計長澤民：就是委員剛才講到的，你們自認為建設有落後，我們希望不要通通花在一些社會福利，也要做一些在建設上，所以我們會有一些規定，這一個規定全國都是適用的。"],["陳委員玉珍：請教主計長，建設需要的錢比較多，而福利方面，因為我們人比較少，發一點點福利，可以照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待，如果我們把錢拿來做建設，因為我們的確沒有那麼多錢，所以我們就來舉債的話，我們來舉債……"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有、沒有……"],["陳委員玉珍：我想請問你……"],["朱主計長澤民：針對建設，你們提出計畫來，國發會會有一個……"],["陳委員玉珍：國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊！你幫我向國發會多說一點，沒關係。"],["朱主計長澤民：新的國發會主委我不認識，以前的主委去當秘書長……"],["陳委員玉珍：你會跟他說？現在還有一個月沒關係，還有機會。"],["朱主計長澤民：我可以跟龔明鑫講。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，我想請問你一個問題，如果舉債我們的財力就會變差嘛，變差到時候我們舉債度日，我們的社會福利措施會不會因此受到影響？"],["朱主計長澤民：如果有舉債，而且還去做社會福利措施，那個嚴格來講是不恰當的。"],["陳委員玉珍：不恰當，但是我們可不可以這樣做？就是如果我們舉債，我們原來要發的社會福利繼續發。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是舉債去做經常門的支出，那個是違背預算法的。"],["陳委員玉珍：不恰當嘛，那你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出？如果我們開始舉債。"],["朱主計長澤民：社會福利支出……"],["陳委員玉珍：我們自己發的錢。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是你們縣政府的……"],["陳委員玉珍：是，我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利。"],["朱主計長澤民：可是……"],["陳委員玉珍：因為我們舉債去做建設……"],["朱主計長澤民：那我們的補助款就會減少。"],["陳委員玉珍：主計長，我們要去舉債做建設嘛，我們的社會福利也不想改變，我們不想偏廢嘛，我們一樣照顧縣民，一樣做這些建設，一樣做社會福利，如果社會福利照做，但因為我們建設的確比較沒那麼進步，我們願意來舉債做一些建設，那這樣子你們會不會終止我們去做這些社會福利？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們不會怎麼終止，可是就是我們的補助款會減少。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，補助款會減少，但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：不會、不會！因為那個是你們縣政府的事。"],["陳委員玉珍：不會嘛！那是我們縣政府自己決定嘛，我們要舉債做建設……"],["朱主計長澤民：對、對，但是不能違背法令。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們願意舉債做建設，投資未來嘛，你們不會去……"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那個我們尊重。"],["陳委員玉珍：你會尊重我們嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是地方自治。"],["陳委員玉珍：那時候我們財力就會變比較差，我們就會變得舉債度日，那時候我們的財力分級就會降低了嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：用這樣子的推論，這樣子……"],["陳委員玉珍：不會嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：不能夠這樣子啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：不是啦，財力比較差分級才會降低啊，你現在一直說我們財力好，不給錢。"],["朱主計長澤民：不會、不會，我們會考慮各項因素啦，我不能夠為了我的一個標準……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，你的標準不用改變……"],["朱主計長澤民：不能夠為金門特別立一個優惠措施。"],["陳委員玉珍：主計長，你的標準不用改變，但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛！你不用改變標準，反正有錢的就是3級，往前，沒錢的就是5級，就往下啊，我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛，所以我們就希望往下。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們會考慮，還有不是只有這個，因為……"],["陳委員玉珍：主要是這樣子啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：財力分級還是有考慮各項……"],["陳委員玉珍：我再請問主計長，這個已經跟你講了，已經剩下一個多月了，你就臨去秋波幫一下金門嘛，3級至少跟澎湖、馬祖一樣，我們一向只跟澎湖、馬祖比，也不敢跟其他縣市比較啦，好不好？同樣是離島，你考慮一下，環境都是一樣辛苦。"],["朱主計長澤民：我知道你們過去都是跟好的比，不要跟後面的比啦！對不對？"],["陳委員玉珍：我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好了啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：你們不是……"],["陳委員玉珍：我們是比較優秀的是嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：就跟您一樣都是努力向上嘛，不會跟我比，因為我在後段嘛，對不對？"],["陳委員玉珍：請問主計長，全國正副議長在113年有一次聯誼座談會，會中有一個提案，好，我們現在就跟直轄市比好了，有一個提案建議縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動，建立每三年的常態討論機制。你們有沒有考慮這個，在編列年度共同性費用編列基準時有沒有考慮物價波動指數？"],["朱主計長澤民：當然會有啊！像最近我們會把一些差旅費提高，當然都會考慮。"],["陳委員玉珍：有喔？這個是全國正副議長聯誼座談會所提出來的。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們都會考慮，而且我們在每年做這個基準表的時候，都會發文給地方政府，甚至找地方政府來開會。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：請問在這個編列的過程中，你們是不是比較重直轄市而輕地方縣市？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！縣市的補助比例上限反而比直轄市高。"],["陳委員玉珍：真的？那你看一下編列標準，例如在各種比賽項目上，直轄市議會編列基準為市內每次6萬元、市外每次40萬元；縣市議會則為縣內每次3萬元、縣外每次20萬元，就是少一半啊！另在辦理議員經建考察項目，直轄市議員每人（年）3萬元、縣市議員每人（年）1萬5,000元。所以這個標準就不一致啊，你沒有比較重直轄市嗎？你不能因為你住在臺北市……"],["朱主計長澤民：那個跟重直轄市沒有關係，那個是因為……"],["陳委員玉珍：你說這個標準跟直轄市或縣市沒有關係？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是考慮到服務選民的人數，跟這個有關係。"],["陳委員玉珍：你確定嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：是、是、是！"],["陳委員玉珍：那我跟你講，你看彰化也是縣市喔，你確定這個跟直轄市或是縣市沒有關係嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：對啦！那個是……"],["陳委員玉珍：這個你確定一下喔，因為我查的不是這樣子喔！"],["朱主計長澤民：好，我來看這個，但是我認為並沒有因為……"],["陳委員玉珍：所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多，因為是一般縣市編列比較少？"],["朱主計長澤民：是跟服務選民多少有關係啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：你說什麼？你說是人口的關係是嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：對、對、對，是每一個議員所要服務的人口。"],["陳委員玉珍：如果是一般地方縣市，它的人口事實上跟直轄市是一樣的，它也會編列那麼多就對了？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是標準之一啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：我覺得你講的不正確，這是我們地方議會、縣市議會議長聯誼會提供的訊息，絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是標準之一啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：所以差太多了，請你考慮，公共工程委員會對離島辦公房舍及員工宿舍修繕都有加計30%的制度設計。"],["朱主計長澤民：有、有。"],["陳委員玉珍：其他制度方面也要援引辦理啦，比如離島到臺灣做經建考察要坐飛機，各項費用事實上都超過很多，比你們只坐巴士差很多，這個部分請你們也要幫我們檢討，好嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：經建考察是差旅費……"],["陳委員玉珍：我是舉例，相關的一樣，我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的標準要公平一點。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們都很公平，如果金門縣政府有意見可以提出來，我們可以在那個會的時候來討論。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，所以金門縣或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來啦？"],["朱主計長澤民：都可以提過來。"],["陳委員玉珍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳玉珍委員。","接下來請羅明才委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.61284375,"end":4.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.8572187499999995,"end":5.785343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.156593750000001,"end":7.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.29971875,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.489093750000002,"end":14.492843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.15096875,"end":25.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.33909375,"end":27.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.887218750000002,"end":29.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.051593750000002,"end":30.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.199093750000003,"end":31.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.249718750000003,"end":31.637843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.16096875,"end":36.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.96596875,"end":39.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.43409375,"end":39.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.45096875,"end":39.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.46784375,"end":41.070968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.37471875,"end":42.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.21846875,"end":42.235343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.235343750000006,"end":42.252218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.11284375,"end":43.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.95659375,"end":43.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.99034375,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.564093750000005,"end":44.580968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.580968750000004,"end":47.297843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.82534375,"end":51.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.774093750000006,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.12409375,"end":58.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.862218750000004,"end":54.486593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.52034375,"end":55.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.05971875,"end":60.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.713468750000004,"end":64.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.15159375,"end":67.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.54784375,"end":69.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.48846875000001,"end":74.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.45846875000001,"end":79.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.00596875000001,"end":82.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.68909375,"end":82.16159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.19534375,"end":82.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.26284375,"end":87.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.31284375,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.35471875,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.75971875,"end":93.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.61971875,"end":93.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.68721875,"end":93.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.75471875000001,"end":94.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.53096875,"end":97.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.28159375,"end":105.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.39409375000001,"end":109.51596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.61284375000001,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.25784375,"end":115.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.54034375,"end":145.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.92784375000002,"end":154.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.65346875,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.35721875000002,"end":171.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.65659375,"end":155.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.98534375,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.20846875,"end":161.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.79034375,"end":164.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.25409375,"end":166.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.49409375000002,"end":169.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.15221875,"end":169.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.38846875000002,"end":175.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.15596875,"end":173.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.24846875,"end":182.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.21409375000002,"end":185.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.03596875000002,"end":184.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.93034375000002,"end":191.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.77409375000002,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.28034375000001,"end":186.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.47409375,"end":188.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.27534375000002,"end":194.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.98409375,"end":192.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.39721875,"end":211.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.76159375,"end":226.18971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.18971875000003,"end":227.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.02909375000002,"end":229.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.54784375000003,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.91909375,"end":230.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.40846875000003,"end":230.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.04096875000002,"end":233.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.08721875,"end":234.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.27284375000002,"end":241.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.68534375000002,"end":241.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.78221875000003,"end":258.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.60034375,"end":252.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.02409375,"end":261.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.62721875,"end":264.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.39471875000004,"end":266.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.84159375,"end":274.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.06471875,"end":271.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.71409375,"end":273.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.18221875,"end":274.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.26659375,"end":274.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.41846875000005,"end":274.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.45221875000004,"end":274.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.48596875000004,"end":274.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.55346875000004,"end":274.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.68846875,"end":291.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.05971875,"end":277.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.64409375,"end":288.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.60596875000005,"end":290.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.56346875,"end":291.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.76596875,"end":292.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.83346875,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.63909375000003,"end":295.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.20346875,"end":318.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.96846875,"end":325.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.75659375000004,"end":328.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.62971875,"end":339.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.66159375,"end":341.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.93534375,"end":346.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.36971875,"end":344.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.64784375000005,"end":345.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.11596875000004,"end":354.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.76034375,"end":375.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.86846875000003,"end":368.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.97659375,"end":379.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.07721875000004,"end":387.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.09409375,"end":379.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.03909375,"end":381.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.27909375,"end":385.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.78909375,"end":388.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.00409375000004,"end":390.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.02909375,"end":390.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.53534375000004,"end":392.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.05409375000005,"end":409.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.38284375,"end":394.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.31909375000004,"end":397.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.97534375000004,"end":416.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.71284375000005,"end":416.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.96159375,"end":422.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.87221875,"end":422.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.90159375,"end":422.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.96909375,"end":428.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.76221875000005,"end":427.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.01471875000004,"end":447.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.57471875000005,"end":436.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.09346875000006,"end":437.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.31221875000006,"end":442.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.30346875000004,"end":443.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.05409375000005,"end":446.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.99909375000004,"end":447.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.16784375000003,"end":448.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.66971875,"end":452.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.06596875,"end":466.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.85346875000005,"end":462.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.86971875,"end":479.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.64409375,"end":484.34346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.76596875,"end":482.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.22971875,"end":499.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.91221875,"end":489.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.72971875,"end":515.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.55096875000004,"end":507.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.1359687500001,"end":516.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.1528437500001,"end":523.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.0334687500001,"end":542.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.06846875,"end":545.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.1865937499999,"end":544.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.02596875,"end":565.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.81409375,"end":552.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.04971875,"end":555.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.85971875,"end":556.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.62659375,"end":562.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.5459687499999,"end":574.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.59971875,"end":578.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.8647187500001,"end":607.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.5734687500001,"end":578.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.09659375,"end":611.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.48034375,"end":607.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.31534375,"end":610.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.02409375,"end":611.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.58096875,"end":616.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.6147187500001,"end":613.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.1372187500001,"end":617.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.36909375,"end":617.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.50409375,"end":618.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.60534375,"end":618.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.2634687500001,"end":620.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.6259687500001,"end":623.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.14909375,"end":624.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.8659687500001,"end":626.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.9584687500001,"end":627.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.03846875,"end":627.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.0890937500001,"end":627.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.2240937500001,"end":649.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.0678437500001,"end":628.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.87784375,"end":629.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.5522187500001,"end":638.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.2465937500001,"end":647.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.9084687500001,"end":656.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.7978437500001,"end":656.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.85659375,"end":657.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.3078437500001,"end":666.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.0915937500001,"end":668.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.0278437500001,"end":684.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.1740937500001,"end":680.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.5615937500002,"end":681.9328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.39221875,"end":694.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.5847187500001,"end":700.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.12471875,"end":696.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.06534375,"end":699.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.9722187500001,"end":707.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.8115937500002,"end":702.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.3803437500001,"end":715.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.8940937500001,"end":717.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.7122187500001,"end":718.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.6909687500001,"end":717.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.5009687500001,"end":718.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.70346875,"end":719.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.73721875,"end":719.73284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.625,"end":27.381,"text":"主席我們請這個行政院這個主計總處的主計長我們請主計長不過我剛剛聽到這個王委員的那個說法我覺得台灣的企業很可憐啊如果台灣的市場很小的時候沒有辦法賺到那麼多錢然後要去拿世界盃都還不能去拿世界盃如果外面可以賺錢還不能去這個企業實在太難經營了"},{"start":29.042,"end":57.854,"text":"來 想請問 主席長喔委員好我們請問金門的這個財力分級的議題啊欸 主席長您做到520對吧欸 應該是應該是喔 還沒確認是吧會繼續幫我們服務嗎對 我會去金門玩對不對蛤 你會去金門玩啊那在去金門之前你來幫我們關心一下這個我們金門這個財力分級啊我們一定會好好的接待你你看一下喔你說我們金門這個財力分級你知道我們現在第幾級嗎喔"},{"start":60.208,"end":87.342,"text":"第三集我們一直說我們是離島我們跟澎湖馬祖事實上差不多意思吧離島我們是考慮財力來分啦不考慮他的離島不離島我們變第三我們第三集的原因是因為我們沒有借錢對吧上回我問過你嘛對啊因為金門的財力不錯啊因為我們是那個好學生嘛對不對不是說好學生啦是表示財力不錯有稅計剩餘嘛"},{"start":88.802,"end":99.228,"text":"三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。"},{"start":110.76,"end":111.4,"text":"總預算決議．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計．有關審計"},{"start":138.126,"end":144.913,"text":"憲政把我們憲政委員的財力的及時調降為第5級。主計總長這個態度是不是臨去的時候"},{"start":147.043,"end":170.954,"text":"那個是我們有一個那個有一個那個所謂的一個分配啦我知道你一直說因為我們的財力好你知道你一直說我們財力好所以沒有辦法降級嘛因為我們是好學生有剩錢沒有辦法降所以你的意思是說所以你的意思是說我們必須要當壞學生嘛是不是當好學生有什麼用嘛對不對"},{"start":173.295,"end":181.68,"text":"財力好政府努力的賺錢金門縣努力的賺金門縣民努力的喝高粱然後我們的財力不錯高粱是台灣人在喝根據我們那個金門酒廠這個買賣的這個從金門賣出去的最多"},{"start":191.946,"end":206.971,"text":"金門賣出去都是台灣人去買的主要還是台灣人去買沒錯啦謝謝大家啦但是也是我們努力推銷嘛那請問你說中央對我們金門的補助款持續成長沒有虧待我們那請問您過去5年來107年到112年主計總處你有沒有扣過我們金門的補助款金門先生"},{"start":211.772,"end":212.773,"text":"所以你的意思是說我們"},{"start":228.421,"end":239.506,"text":"三、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。閱讀中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3案。"},{"start":249.511,"end":255.767,"text":"金門縣你照顧一點,你們就要懲罰我們。我們沒有說大小眼對金門特別好,我們對金門還特別這個是好人。"},{"start":260.066,"end":288.004,"text":"你扣我們的補助款原因是因為我們對金門縣民的福利做得比較好所以你們不鼓勵一個縣政府一個地方政府對金門福利對縣民的福利做得好一點就像您剛才講的就是說因為我們比較財力比較好所以我們不能不能照顧我們的縣民你們說自認為說是建設有落後那我們希望說不要是通通是去花在一些社會福利也要做一些在建設上所以我們會有一些規定"},{"start":288.604,"end":307.562,"text":"那所以我們如果說主席總長我想請教您主席長請教您行政主席總處主席長想請教您那所以如果我們把因為建設需要的錢比較多因為福利因為錢人比較少發一點點福利對照顧我們以前比較辛苦的長輩是我們的期待"},{"start":310.205,"end":327.914,"text":"那如果我們把錢拿來做建設那因為我們的確沒到沒有那麼多錢那所以我們就來舉債的話我們來舉債沒有沒有沒有那個是如果我想請問你那個建設的話你們提出計畫來那個國發會會有一個所謂的國發會就沒有像你這樣子啊你幫我跟國發會多說一點沒關係我會跟那個那個現在國發會主任我不"},{"start":335.678,"end":361.447,"text":"主委我不認識了以前的又去當你會跟他說現在還有一個月沒關係還有機會我會跟好那我想請問你一個問題喔如果說舉債的話我們的財力就會變差嘛那變差到時候我們舉債度日我們的社會福利措施這樣會不會受到影響那個舉債的如果有舉債而且還去做社會福利措施那個是嚴格來講是不恰當的"},{"start":362.827,"end":389.728,"text":"不恰當但是我們可不可以這樣做就是說如果我們舉債我們原來要發的社會福利我們繼續發那個是舉債去做經常人的支出那個是違背預算法的你們會不會終止我們的社會福利支出如果我們開始舉債我們自己發的錢那個是你們縣政府的我們縣政府自己的錢去做社會福利因為我們舉債要去做建設我的補助款就會減少主席長"},{"start":392.25,"end":393.131,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":417.918,"end":430.852,"text":"但是你們可以要求我們終止做建設嗎?不會不會不會因為那個是你們縣政府的事但是我們現在有自己決定嘛我們要舉在做建設但是不能違背法令我們做建設我們願意舉在做建設吧"},{"start":431.713,"end":433.994,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。netesa"},{"start":448.643,"end":452.305,"text":"主計長,你的標準不用改變但是我們的財政狀況會改變嘛你不用改變標準反正就是有錢的就是三級啊往前啊沒錢的就是五級啊往下啊那我們現在的確就比較沒錢嘛"},{"start":477.639,"end":495.334,"text":"所以那個我們會考慮還有不是只有這個因為這個財理分局還是有考慮我再請問主計長齁那這個已經跟你講了已經剩下一個多月了你這臨去秋波也幫一下金門嘛三級至少跟澎湖媽祖一樣我們一向只跟澎湖媽祖比欸也不然跟其他縣市比較啦"},{"start":496.095,"end":517.754,"text":"好不好同樣是李董你考慮一下環境都是一樣辛苦的我知道你們過去都是跟好的比啦不要跟後面的比啦對不對我們就跟我們同等級的學生比就好啦再請問了你們不是同學你們是我們是比較優秀的就跟連一樣都是努力向上嘛不會跟我比因為我在後段嘛對不對主席長請問全國政委長聯誼會這個113年有一次聯誼座談會有一個提案他建議說"},{"start":524.339,"end":541.917,"text":"我們現在跟直轄市比好了。現在縣市有一個提案基於縣市議會共同性費用編列基準要反映物價指數波動建立每三年的常態討論機制來這個那你們有沒有考慮這個在編列這個年度共同性"},{"start":543.838,"end":564.043,"text":"有沒有考慮這個物價波動指數當然會有啊像最近我們會把一些參與會的提高當然會都有考慮這個是全國政府議長聯會所提出來的議案而且我們在每年在做這個基準表的時候都會花文給地方政府甚至找地方政府來開會謝謝"},{"start":565.603,"end":589.367,"text":"那在地方民意機關也是如此嗎那請問那在這個編列的過程中你們是不是比較重直轄市而清這個地方的限制沒有啦我們是縣市的補助比例緩然後那個上限比那個直轄市高那你們的編列標準你看一下為什麼比如說金門縣議會有提到在各項比賽上直轄市的議會編列基準市內每次6萬塊市外每次40萬縣市議會是縣內3萬塊縣外20萬就少一半啦"},{"start":595.809,"end":608.84,"text":"經濟考察項目直轄市的議員每個人3萬縣市議員地方縣市的每個人1萬5啊這個標準就不一致啊你沒有比較重直轄市嗎你不能因為你住在臺北市你說這個標準跟直轄市縣市沒有關係是不是你確定嗎"},{"start":617.668,"end":618.448,"text":"但是我認為是說並沒有說是因為"},{"start":633.675,"end":643.443,"text":"所以沒有因為是直轄市編列比較多?因為是一般縣市編列比較少?你說什麼?說是人口的關係是嗎?對對對對每一個議員他又服務著人口所以如果一般的地方縣市那他的人口跟直轄市是一樣的?對,那個是標準之一啦"},{"start":659.394,"end":683.361,"text":"我覺得你講的是不正確因為這是我們地方議會、縣市議會、議長連會提供的訊息也絕對不是只有一個議長在裡頭那個是標準之一那所以差太多了那請你考慮我們在這個工工程委員會在離島的這個辦公廳設、員工宿舍修繕都有加計工程會有這個加計30%的這個那其他制度方面也要援引辦理因為比如說經濟考察離島要到"},{"start":685.442,"end":686.905,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2"},{"start":698.324,"end":716.453,"text":"舉例舉例相關的相關的一樣就是我要講的是直轄市跟縣市的這個標準你要公平一點那個我們都很公平如果說金門縣政府有意見可以提出來我們在那個會的時候來討論所以金門縣會或是金門縣議會有意見都可以提過來都可以提過來謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151439","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151439","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44571733c379c1b405cf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94c13a165974515a3f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"11:52:30 - 12:02:48","影片長度":"00:10:18","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":618,"end_time":"2024-04-18T12:02:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:52:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":406,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（11時52分）謝謝主席，有請秘書長跟司法院的程廳長。"],["主席：有請秘書長，還有廳長，請。"],["周秘書長萬來：陳委員好。"],["陳委員俊宇：秘書長好，廳長好。首先先請教司法院程廳長，在上個禮拜，士林地院的李姓法官疑似因為工作壓力過大而不幸墜樓離世，一位這麼優秀的法官發生如此的憾事，令社會各界非常地惋惜。根據媒體報導，在這個遺憾的事件發生之前，李姓法官就曾傳簡訊給他的妻子，表示「我很累」，也曾提到因為太多的工作壓力讓他可能不堪負荷，顯示法官恐怕是長期處於這種高壓過勞的工作環境之下，像這樣的情況，我先請教一下程廳長，您的工作壓力會很大嗎？"],["程廳長怡怡：謝謝委員關注這個議題，我想「我很累」應該是目前所有法官共同的心聲，我個人雖然目前是在司法院裡面從事司法行政工作，但是我從84年分發擔任法官，到明年就快30年了，我只有近兩年是在司法院服務，之前都是在辦審判的工作，法官的壓力確實非常地大。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以您是過來人嘛！"],["程廳長怡怡：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以由此可見，基層法官的那種壓力應該是不堪負荷的啦！"],["程廳長怡怡：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：針對這位李法官的憾事，也讓我們再次提醒，減輕司法體系的負擔，解決工作負荷過重的問題是刻不容緩的。其實過勞這個議題已經存在一段時間了，過去不管是在立法院還是民間都有過許多的討論，尤其近幾年我們也知道爆量的詐騙案件幾乎淹沒了整個司法體系，不管是檢警還是法官，都是在海量的案件中咬牙苦撐。我想請教廳長，司法院對於這一次發生的事情，有沒有進行相關的檢討？"],["程廳長怡怡：是，其實司法院在昨天（也就是17日）有召開過檢討會議，關於怎麼樣來回應各界關注法官過勞問題，有做了一些具體的決議，希望能夠來回應，其中包括我們會參酌合理的工時來研議法官合理的結案量到底是多少，另外就是放寬法官的管考措施，然後持續來推動防杜濫訴等等，都是我們可以立即採取的具體改善措施。同時也希望各界能夠關注這個議題，然後投入更多的資源給司法部門，因為我們受制於中央政府機關總員額法的限制，我們的員額即將用罄，其實有適量、大量的人力投入司法，對於緩解法官的壓力是有助益的，謝謝。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我希望我們能夠提出具體的辦法跟規劃來解決這個問題，讓實際在基層從事這些工作的法官能夠感受到壓力的減輕，我想問題還是不斷地惡化當中，所以刻不容緩，這個事情一定要馬上去做解決，不論是人力資源的補充或是判決書類的簡化，有好的措施就應該要儘快提出，來解救司法官在這種水深火熱之中的工作情況。而過勞的問題當然不只是存在法官，檢察官也是，這個部分是不是請法務部也同步積極來檢討和規劃？請次長協助幫忙，並且要深入了解第一線司法人員的實際情況，避免紙上談兵。","另外，對於這件事情，許宗力院長日前走訪士林地院的時候，也提醒法官要注意身心，多參加一些戶外活動，不要整天都綁在辦公室裡面，被法官們認為是一番沒有溫度、距離基層遙遠的言論。但我們也看到臺中地院的公告，讓全院同仁公假半天去參觀展覽，希望能夠放鬆一下心情，我想請問司法院，對於這部分有沒有相關的指引，讓各地的法院都能夠參照，來落實許宗力院長的建議，多照顧法官的身心？有沒有？"],["程廳長怡怡：是，報告委員，我想這部分大概不需要司法院的指引啦！目前我們沒有指引，這都是各法院院長自動來做，就像委員剛才舉例的臺中地院，其實士林地院也有類似的措施，就是鼓勵法官們有半天公假可以出去走一走、看一看，紓壓。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我希望要落實。"],["程廳長怡怡：是，謝謝。"],["陳委員俊宇：我希望要落實。","再來，我要就教秘書長，在0403大地震之後，我們看到立法院本身也略有災情，不管是百年建物的院區，還是做為委員辦公室的研究大樓，都出現了一些受損或磁磚剝落，甚至有梁柱裂開、水泥石塊掉落的情形，衛環委員會的天花板還有燈條整組都掉下來，我想請教秘書長，在地震兩個禮拜後，相關的災損都已經檢查完了，也修繕完畢了嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：我請我們廖處長跟陳委員詳細地報告。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。廳長，您先回座。"],["廖處長炯志：報告委員，地震發生的時候，我們第一時間已經通知廠商，也在連假期間的前兩天就已經絕大多數完成修復，後續有一些小狀況再做一點整理，以上報告。"],["陳委員俊宇：都已經在處理了嗎？"],["廖處長炯志：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我想請教秘書長，在4月1日我曾經質詢過，那是在地震前，針對國會擴建的相關期程，當時秘書長的回應是說總務處還在研擬當中，也會向韓院長報告，那地震發生之後到現在，我想請教秘書長，您已經向韓院長報告和討論過這個事情了沒？"],["周秘書長萬來：我上次有跟陳委員報告過，院址遷建，要等總務處研議後，才會向韓院長報告是不是要經過黨團協商成立的一個情形……"],["陳委員俊宇：所以就是還沒報告嘛？"],["周秘書長萬來：廖處長已經在研議整個過程，我們……"],["陳委員俊宇：大概要多久的時間？"],["周秘書長萬來：當時是提6個月內……"],["陳委員俊宇：6個月？"],["周秘書長萬來：本來是3個月，後來問我確定的時間，所以我當時說6個月，我說會請總務處針對這個研議出來，然後跟院長報告。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以那個研議的過程還沒完成，也還沒跟韓院長報告這件事情嘛？"],["周秘書長萬來：針對這個還沒有，不過上次院長指示我接見公督盟的時候，曾經針對這個跟他報告過一次。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，本席會不斷地追蹤國會擴建的議題是希望在整個國會改革的討論當中，能夠關注到硬體這一塊，我們不是只有在條文方面，在硬體方面也應該要納入去一併討論，除了保障議事運作，維持議事品質以外，也是為了提升進行國會外交時的格局，甚至目前我們立法院內還有許多地方可能都還有違建的問題，也是要透過國會的擴建或是遷建才有辦法解決。應該是這樣子吧？所以我希望秘書長跟處長應該要積極來辦理，不要說6個月啦，應該要縮短期程，因為這個已經討論那麼久了，為什麼還要再6個月的時間？我相信內部應該都有一個想法了，上一次秘書長也大概有講，對6個點應該也有一個主要的想法，所以我希望要加緊腳步，刻不容緩，請秘書長跟處長儘快辦理，好，以上。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員的質詢。","我們有請下一位沈發惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9590937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.454093750000002,"end":26.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.31784375,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.54471875,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.70971875,"end":68.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.71221875,"end":71.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.42034375,"end":89.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.62034375,"end":95.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.97346875000001,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.22096875000001,"end":107.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.67909375,"end":118.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.88159375000001,"end":118.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.96596875,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.24346875,"end":132.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.10346875000002,"end":131.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.61784375000002,"end":139.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.90784375,"end":140.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.17784375000002,"end":146.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.45096875000002,"end":186.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.33096875,"end":196.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.86096875,"end":199.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.13471875000002,"end":259.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.04534375000003,"end":336.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.97409375,"end":352.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.76909375,"end":356.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.29159375,"end":364.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":365.17221875,"end":391.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.74659375000005,"end":424.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.51721875000004,"end":431.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.50346875,"end":432.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.83221875000004,"end":435.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.22846875000005,"end":438.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.81034375,"end":442.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.34159375,"end":458.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.98034375000003,"end":466.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.81034375,"end":482.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.82471875000005,"end":490.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.61659375000005,"end":514.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.57284375000006,"end":501.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.32784375000006,"end":504.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.47471875,"end":511.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.7353437500001,"end":515.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.8872187500001,"end":515.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.56221875,"end":515.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.8659687500001,"end":517.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.9753437500001,"end":528.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.77534375,"end":529.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.61909375,"end":535.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.8840937500001,"end":546.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.07221875,"end":600.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.9834687499999,"end":615.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.34409375,"end":615.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.66471875,"end":615.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.79096875,"end":618.3815937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":19.497,"end":25.76,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那我們有請秘書長跟我們司法院的陳廳長。"},{"start":27.803,"end":56.459,"text":"好 謝謝 有請祕書長還有廳長請陳委員好祕書長好 廳長好好 首先我先請教我們司法院陳廳長齁那在上個禮拜啦齁上個禮拜士林地院的理性法官那已是因為工作壓力過大而不幸墜樓離世啦齁那一位這麼優秀的法官發生如此的憾事令社會各界非常的萬喜"},{"start":57.742,"end":78.436,"text":"那根據媒體的報導在這個遺憾的事件發生之前那李信法官就曾傳簡訊給他的妻子表示說我很累也曾提到說因為這個太多的這種工作壓力讓他可能不堪負荷"},{"start":79.571,"end":95.082,"text":"那顯示法官恐怕是長期處於這種高壓過勞的這種工作的環境之下那像這樣的情況我先請教一下我們這個陳庭長您的工作壓力會很大嗎?"},{"start":97.841,"end":100.342,"text":"我只有近兩年是在司法院服務那之前都是在辦審判的工作"},{"start":130.51,"end":152.759,"text":"因此可見應該在基層的這種法官那種壓力是不堪負荷的那我想請問就是說針對我們這個理法官的憾事也讓我們再次提醒減輕司法體系的這種負擔以及工作負荷的過重的問題是刻不容緩的"},{"start":153.953,"end":175.799,"text":"但其實過勞的這個議題已經存在一段時間了那過去不管是在立法院還是民間都有過許多的討論那尤其近幾年我們也知道爆量的這種詐騙案件幾乎淹沒了整個司法體系不管是這個檢警還是法官都在海量的這種案件中咬牙苦撐"},{"start":177.259,"end":191.815,"text":"那我想請教廳長就是司法院對於這種這一次發生的事情我們有沒有進行相關的檢討是的跟委員報告那其實司法院在這個昨天也就是17號有召開過檢討會議那關於這個"},{"start":197.514,"end":206.837,"text":"一、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條之一條之二條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條之一條"},{"start":224.503,"end":241.311,"text":"而然後持續來推動防度濫訴等等那都是我們可以立即採取的一些的具體的改善的措施那同時那也希望各界能夠關注這個議題然後投入更多的資源給司法"},{"start":242.691,"end":259.076,"text":"給司法部門,那因為我們受制於這個中央政府機關總原額法的限制,我們的原額即將用盡,那我想其實是適量大量的人力投入司法,那對於緩解法官的壓力是有助益的,謝謝。"},{"start":260.056,"end":284.517,"text":"我希望我們能夠提出具體能夠解決這個問題的辦法跟規劃讓實際在這個基層從事這些工作的法官能夠感受到這個壓力的減輕那我想問題還是不斷的惡化當中所以刻不容緩一定要馬上去做這個事情的解決那不論是人力資源的補充或是判決書類的這個簡化"},{"start":286.599,"end":313.071,"text":"那有好的措施就應該要盡快提出來解救司法官在水深火熱之中的這種工作情況而過勞的問題當然不只是存在法官那檢察官也是這部分也請我們法務部是不是也同步積極來檢討和規劃這個再請我們次長協助幫忙並且要深入了解第一線司法人員的這個實際情況避免只上談兵"},{"start":314.144,"end":333.088,"text":"那另外對於這件事情我們這個許中立院長日前走訪士林地院的時候也提醒法官要注意身心多參加一些戶外的活動那不要整天都綁在辦公室裡面被法官們認為是一番沒有溫度沒有距離的基層遙遠的這種言論但我們"},{"start":335.919,"end":354.896,"text":"也看到有台中地院的公告說讓全院同仁公假半天去參觀展覽那希望能夠放鬆一下心情那我想請問司法院對於這部分有沒有相關的這個指引那讓各地的法院都能這個"},{"start":357.386,"end":386.987,"text":"能參照來落實許中立院長的建議,多照顧法官的身心。」有沒有?報告委員,我想這一部分其實大概不需要司法院的指引,目前我們沒有指引,但是其實這都是各法院院長就自動的這樣子來做,就像委員剛才舉例的台中地院,那其實士林地院也有類似的,院長他們法院也有類似的措施,就是鼓勵法官們有半天的工假可以出去"},{"start":387.427,"end":415.086,"text":"走一走看一看這樣子的紓壓我希望要落實啊我希望要落實啊那在我就叫我們秘書長齁那在0403的大地震之後我們看到立法院本身也略有災情啦齁不管是這個百年建物的這個院區還是委員會辦公室的研究大樓都出現了一些這個受損或瓷磚剝落甚至這個樑柱裂開水泥石塊這個掉落"},{"start":415.686,"end":438.452,"text":"的情形甚至在這個未還這個委員會的天花板還有燈條也整組都掉下來那我想請教祕書長在地震這個兩個禮拜後相關的這個災損都已經檢查完了那也修繕完畢了嗎好好聽長您先回座"},{"start":442.483,"end":462.675,"text":"報告委員那因為地震發生的時候我們第一時間已經通知廠商那也在那個連假時間的前兩天就已經絕大多數做成修復那就後續有一些小狀況再做一點整理以上報告好都已經在處理了嗎是好那我想請教祕書長就是在4月1號"},{"start":466.918,"end":488.796,"text":"四月一號我曾經質詢過,那是在地震前那我針對我們這個國會擴建的相關期程當時這個秘書長回應是說總務處還在研擬當中也會向韓院長報告那在這個地震發生之後那到現在我想請教說秘書長您已經向韓院長報告和討論過這個事情了沒?"},{"start":491.927,"end":513.718,"text":"簽卷我上次跟陳委員報告過。總務處他研議後才會跟韓院長報告是不是要經過黨團協商成立的一個情形。所以就是還沒報告嗎?在研議整個過程。那大概要多久的時間?我當時是有,跟我提是六個月內。"},{"start":514.978,"end":515.138,"text":"六個月?"},{"start":530.775,"end":544.921,"text":"嚴厲的過程也還沒完成,那也還沒跟韓院長報告這件事情嗎?針對這個還沒有跟,院長報告是上次有一個公督門,院長只是我跟他沒接見的時候曾經有針對這個跟他報告過一次。"},{"start":547.702,"end":569.291,"text":"本席會不斷的追蹤這個國會擴建的議題是希望說在整個國會改革的這個討論當中能夠關注到硬體的這一塊我們不是只有這些條文方面我們硬體方面應該要納入去一併討論除了上述保障的這些議事運作維持這個議事的品質以外"},{"start":569.831,"end":596.806,"text":"也是為了要提升進行國會外交史的一個格局甚至目前我們立法院內還有許多的地方都可能還是違建的問題也是要透過我們這個國會的這個擴建或是簽建才有辦法解決應該是這樣子吧所以我希望說這個部分秘書長跟我們處長應該要積極來辦理不要說六個月啦應該要縮短期程因為這個已經討論那麼久了為什麼還要再六個月時間"},{"start":597.907,"end":614.797,"text":"我相信內部應該都有一個想法了上一次秘書長您也大概有講六個點應該也都有一個這個主要的一個想法所以我希望說應該是要加緊腳步啦客不容緩請秘書長跟處長這個盡快辦理好以上"}]}},{"id":"151438","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151438","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4455fc4fb4ed38e264204d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94d104b08215f3295d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"11:53:49 - 11:58:25","影片長度":"00:04:36","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":276,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:58:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:53:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1212,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時54分）謝謝，我們請部長休息，請產業園區管理局楊局長。"],["主席：楊局長。"],["李委員柏毅：局長好，今天是做這個經濟作業基金的報告，其實我在4月9號的時候有到我們的楠梓產業園區去開一個協調會，局長應該有掌握。"],["楊局長伯耕：是。"],["李委員柏毅：局長知道後續我們這個產業園區要做的事情是什麼嗎？"],["楊局長伯耕：向委員報告，那一天結論的部分，第一個就是請台電公司規劃，就是說大用電戶161kV……"],["李委員柏毅：因為今天台電來開會的是許副總，而當天與會的是陳副總，陳副總對電網的這些業務比較熟悉，所以我也就沒有請台電上來。是總經理？好，那請總經理聽一下。"],["楊局長伯耕：第二個結論就是未來園區內廠商需電量的部分，請我們跟廠商這邊多多地了解。"],["李委員柏毅：我們來講第一個結論，第一個結論就是要請我們園區管理局跟台電把這個161仟伏特也就是地下、比較穩定的電源可以拉到園區來，那目前只有第二園區的日月光已經申設一個，但是第一園區可能需要我們園區管理局這邊協助台電把空間找出來。當天包含華泰、國巨、日月光等等非常多的廠商都有參與這個會議，當然這個會議也釐清了很多我們用電的這些問題，我現在show一下，也讓總經理清楚那天陳副總來說明的，我們外在可能會影響到園區用電跟民生用電稍微有重疊的部分目前都在整理，但是確實廠商需要的是更穩定的高壓用電，而這些高壓用電需要園區管理局跟台電共同來籌設，也必須要由台電來做這個重大的投資，這一方面是不是請總經理……當天帶回後到現在已經過十幾天了，有沒有相關的規劃跟計畫？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，因為主要是這三個變電所供應的範圍有園區裡面，也有園區外面的一般民間，所以它接線方式的複雜度比較高，我們是希望裡面的園區能夠整合成用一個161特高壓的電，然後直接給這些用電量比較大的業者，然後我們再把剛剛講的那幾個變電所整理一下，我們把一些重要用戶的用電集中在某幾個變電所供進去園區，就是園區內的用電園區用，園區外的用電就讓園區外的變電所來供，用這樣的概念處理。"],["李委員柏毅：總經理，我請教你，一個外接161的輸出電路在園區裡面要籌設的話，目前日月光公司自己申辦一個。"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["李委員柏毅：那如果其他園區需要合併起來籌設的話，台電能不能主動來提供這個評估跟服務？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們會協助業者來做這件事。"],["李委員柏毅：還是要業者……"],["王總經理耀庭：對，因為這個涉及到土地問題。"],["李委員柏毅：就是它3,000瓦、5,000瓦這樣加起來不到這個……但是要是超過10家的話，確實是需要這個穩定電路，這一方面還是要園區管理局跟台電一起來做這件事情。"],["王總經理耀庭：我們需要來解決土地的這個……"],["李委員柏毅：土地就需要園區……"],["王總經理耀庭：對，所以我需要園區一起來努力。"],["李委員柏毅：局長，園區有什麼困難？"],["楊局長伯耕：園區現在正在盤點，上次委員有會議結論之後，我們也正在盤點。那我們現在尋找的部分大概就是我們……因為委員也知道園區開發已經56年了，所以園區的空地比較少，我們會找綠地。"],["李委員柏毅：對，除了空地有困難之外，接電也有困難。第二點，我對於楠梓第三園區的進度也持續關心，再請管理局這邊再給我一些進度的報告。謝謝。"],["楊局長伯耕：是。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請陳亭妃委員，陳亭妃、陳亭妃委員不在現場。","我們請羅明才委員，羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在現場。","我們請何欣純委員，何欣純、何欣純委員不在現場。","我們請陳冠廷，陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在現場。","登記發言的委員除了不在場之外，其餘都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。蔡易餘委員、陳超明委員、陳亭妃委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢以及未及答復的部分，請相關單位於一週之內以書面答復並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.03909375,"end":6.443468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.029093750000001,"end":13.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.750343750000003,"end":15.825968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.03659375,"end":19.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.46659375,"end":20.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.26784375,"end":24.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.73596875,"end":25.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.79909375,"end":26.305343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.355968750000002,"end":26.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.047843750000002,"end":27.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.102218750000002,"end":49.002218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.977843750000005,"end":43.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.462843750000005,"end":45.407843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.086593750000006,"end":58.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.55784375,"end":58.924718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.97534375,"end":73.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.02409375,"end":71.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.52159375000001,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.55534375,"end":73.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.74096875000001,"end":74.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.02784375,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.67284375,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.03471875000001,"end":88.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.06346875,"end":91.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.72971875,"end":92.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.21471875,"end":98.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.76659375000001,"end":115.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.38846875,"end":126.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.86346875000001,"end":130.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.23409375,"end":135.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.38534375,"end":139.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.29596875000001,"end":160.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.27596875,"end":160.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.29284375,"end":160.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.30971875,"end":160.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.47846875000002,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.03534375,"end":162.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.00971875000002,"end":163.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.02659375000002,"end":174.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.65846875,"end":170.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.43409375000002,"end":199.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.56971875000002,"end":198.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.05471875,"end":218.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.59784375,"end":206.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.96346875,"end":218.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.88284375,"end":231.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.89971875,"end":219.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.76284375,"end":233.86784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.02409375000002,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.07034375,"end":237.96846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.05721875,"end":237.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.96846875000003,"end":238.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.90909375,"end":240.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.41096875000002,"end":257.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.61971875,"end":266.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.84159375,"end":267.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.87096875000003,"end":271.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.50284375,"end":275.36346875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.209,"end":23.854,"text":"經濟委員請做詢答我們中午不休息一直到我們會議的完整結束謝謝我們請部長休息後請那個請產業人區管理局局長楊局長陳局長楊局長楊局長局長你好"},{"start":30.629,"end":48.647,"text":"今天審定今天是做這個經濟作業基金的這些報告那其實我在4月9號的時候其實我有到我們的男子產業園區那去做一個協調會這個局長應該有掌握那局長知道後續我們這個產業園區要做的事情是什麼嗎?"},{"start":49.367,"end":62.173,"text":"向委員報告委員那一天的結論的部分第一個就是請臺電公司規劃一下就是說大用電戶161KV的因為今天臺電來參與的是副總是許副總那因為當天是陳副總陳副總對這個電網的這些業務比較熟悉所以我沒有請臺電我沒有請臺電上來總經理那總經理聽一下第二個結論的部分就是"},{"start":78.101,"end":99.641,"text":"未來園區內廠商需電的量的部分請我們跟廠商這邊多多的瞭解我們來講第一個結論第一個結論就是要請台電請我們園區管理局然後跟台電把這個161伏特也就是地下的這個比較穩定的這個電源可以拉到園區來"},{"start":101.303,"end":129.682,"text":"目前只有第二園區的日月光它目前已經有深設一個但是第一園區可能我們要園區管理局這邊協助台電把空間找出來非常多的廠商當天包含華泰、國巨等等日月光等等都有參與這個會議那當然這個會議也釐清了很多我們用電的這些問題包含可能秀一下這個也跟讓總經理清楚那天陳副總來說明的"},{"start":131.303,"end":158.825,"text":"我們外在可能會影響到園區用電會跟民生用電稍微有重疊的部分目前都在整理但是確實廠商需要的是更穩定的這些高壓用電那這高壓用電需要園區管理局跟台電共同來籌設也必須要台電來做這個重大的投資那這一方面是不是請總經理當天帶回來之後現在已經經過十幾天了有沒有相關的規劃跟計劃"},{"start":160.746,"end":176.514,"text":"跟委員報告因為主要是這三個變電所供應的範圍有園區裡面也有園區外面的一般民間所以它的接線的方式的複雜度比較高那我們是希望這裡面的園區能夠整合成"},{"start":176.914,"end":205.99,"text":"用一個161的特高壓的電然後直接給這些用電比較大的業者然後我們再把這個剛剛講的那幾個變電所再整理一下一些重要的用戶我們把他的這個用電其中在某幾個變電所供進去園區就是園區內的用電園區用園區外的用電就讓園區外的變電所總結我請教你一個外接161的這個輸出電路在園區裡面要籌設的話目前日月光公司自己申辦一個"},{"start":206.65,"end":230.665,"text":"那如果其他園區需要合併起來籌設的話,臺電能不能主動來提供這個評估跟服務?我們會協助業者來做這件事。還是要業者?對,因為這個就遇到土地問題。就大概3000瓦、5000瓦這樣加起來不到這個,但是確實是要超過10家的話,確實是需要這個穩定的電路。那這一方面還是要園區管理局還是要臺電一起來做這件事情。"},{"start":231.766,"end":232.026,"text":"原區有什麼困難?"},{"start":241.716,"end":269.735,"text":"原區現在正在盤點就是上次委員有會議結論之後我們也正在盤點那我們現在尋找的部分大概就是我們因為委員也知道就是原區開發已經56年了所以原區的空地比較少我們會找綠地綠地的部分這個就是空地有困難之外接電也有困難第二點我對於南梓的這個第三第三園區的這個進度我也持續關心那再請管理園區這邊再給我一些進度的報告謝謝"},{"start":274.532,"end":274.935,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"151437","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151437","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445f90652d3e26bb563cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c9431d4186e9443af555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:51:03 - 11:57:59","影片長度":"00:06:56","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":416,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:57:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:51:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":670,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時51分）謝謝主席，有請委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：陳委員你好。"],["陳委員培瑜：委員長午安，我們就快速討論一下。不知道委員長有沒有在海外看過臺灣代表隊的比賽？"],["徐委員長佳青：有，曾經看過。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。我相信委員長你一定非常清楚，其實不管是所謂奧運奪牌項目、亞運，或者是非正式這些奪牌項目，其實很多臺灣代表隊到海外去比賽都非常辛苦，從食物到時差，其實都有很多需要克服的，而且幾乎每天都有不同的隊伍到海外參加各式各樣的比賽。但是如果我們來問這些選手說，你們在海外比賽過程當中，除了克服這些辛苦，還有努力得到獎牌之外，讓他們最有感覺的是什麼？他們通常都會回答：如果場邊有我們的僑民為他們加油打氣，哇！那感覺一定很棒，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：對。這兩張照片跟委員長分享，其實我們臺灣代表隊在海外比賽的時候，僑民主動參與真的很令人感動，尤其是如果在對戰，非主場國家，我們的僑民進場加油，那個加油的聲音、那個爆亮的聲音，會讓我們客場變主場，其實我們的選手會更努力地，然後更有感覺。不知道這個部分，你覺得僑委會有沒有機會可以做更多事情？因為事實上，在蔡英文總統任內，確實僑委會在這件事情上也做了很多，但是後續有沒有機會我們可以做更多的精進？","我們來看一下，這些照片裡面，對代表隊的支援其實也是僑委會跟外館有串聯海外僑胞的時間點。每一個代表隊到不同的國家，有沒有機會讓僑民更加強化跟臺灣的連結？其實我們自己知道，很多運動代表隊到了海外，可能常常會產生很多臨時的需求，其實也都必須要靠當地的僑胞給予支持跟支援。想要請教一下委員長，您覺得在您接下來任期裡面，有沒有機會可以像外館一樣，做更多積極的協助給這些代表隊？"],["徐委員長佳青：會。我們如果知道有些已經排定的大型比賽，我們都會提前跟僑團說，是不是大家可以提早……我們有些僑團還非常非常熱情，還說願意讓這些比賽的隊伍在結束以後可以有一日遊，或者是帶一些什麼樣的加油的食物去給他們滿足一下。這個部分我想，只要資訊提前都可以得到的時候，我們就會提前去聯絡我們在該地的僑團。","今年當然我們已經知道比較大的就是在奧運，巴黎的這個比賽，我們在當地的僑團已經都很努力，他們開始在準備說，到今年7月的時候，我們有很多代表的選手去到巴黎的時候，除了我們代表處對他們有的照顧跟歡迎以外，我們的僑界大家也必須輪流，因為奧運比賽的項目是非常非常地多，有我們選手的時候，希望場邊都有我們的僑胞，能夠去給他們加油打氣。"],["陳委員培瑜：那我們來舉一個小小的例子，可愛的小例子。我們來看一下。這個加油棒不知道委員長有沒有看過？其實各式各樣的國家或是各式各樣……"],["徐委員長佳青：很可愛、很漂亮。"],["陳委員培瑜：很可愛，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：其實這個預算真的不多，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：如同您剛剛說的，您舉了巴黎奧運，那我剛剛其實還有說，除了這些大型的比賽項目，其實還有非常非常多。有沒有機會僑委會來設計這個加油棒？因為真的預算不多。有沒有機會讓我們……也許從今年巴黎奧運試辦開始？"],["徐委員長佳青：可以。我們一般來說，我們過去都是直接……已經有採購的就是我們有很多小國旗，手搖旗……"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道有小國旗，對。"],["徐委員長佳青：這種我們大概都會直接寄出去給僑團，讓他馬上可以運用。那加油棒我們是可以來跟僑團討論，我們怎麼樣……近年來有一些僑團很可愛，他們就定期……已經都採購了，比方說有大型的布偶臺灣黑熊，他們就會把牠請到現場去，然後在那個當中做一些互動，就是增加吸睛的效果。也許今年我們在巴黎奧運的準備之下，我們可以來跟……"],["陳委員培瑜：而且我們看到這個國旗的logo在上面。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的，是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。其實你剛剛說到另外一個重點，我就先簡單回復一下。你剛剛說，如果你們可以提早知道運動賽事，那這個部分我們也會協同體育署，希望他們可以更加積極，把所有的訊息都通知給僑委會。因為我剛剛說，除了這種大型的比賽，其實還有非常非常多比賽的選手，也很需要當地的僑民為他們加油，好嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：這部分我們會協同體育署，希望他們……"],["徐委員長佳青：跟陳委員報告，其實連同電競比賽我們也都很關心。那些年輕學生去到海外做電競比賽的時候，這不一定是跟體育署有關聯的，但是只要我們有注意到，或者有時候是僑胞回過頭來會跟我們說「我們有接到訊息了，什麼什麼什麼要來」。像我最近就接到說，北一女的樂旗隊他們7月1號要去加拿大表演，也希望我們可以協助做什麼。只要我們在當地有僑團跟僑民，我們都會協助，提前把這個資訊給他們。如果有表演，或者是比賽的時候，大家都可以去場邊給他們加油打氣，甚至接待他們。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我時間有限，還有1分鐘。不過先謝謝委員長剛剛那個部分非常正向的回應，我們辦公室也會持續再跟你們討論。","接下來，畫面中這對兄弟其實是臺美聯姻，他們的母親是臺灣人，是賀丹、賀博兄弟，其中弟弟更入圍美國媒體評比4星高中生，今年入圍2024年麥當勞高中全明星賽的提名名單。他們是怎麼被發現的？其實是熱心的球評跟球迷，他們在看很多運動賽事的時候發現。其實不是只有他們，在足球界還有陳昌源這個優秀的臺灣、比利時聯姻子弟。","他們被發現之後，我們來看我們僑委會到底可以做什麼？其實在菲律賓、泰國，跟很多歐洲國家，對於有血緣關係的球員，他們會納入很重要的國家運動政策發展的人才網羅項目之一，不知道這個部分僑委會有沒有主動發掘人才的可能性？就是關於這種聯姻的部分。"],["徐委員長佳青：如果我們有相關僑界報給我們的資訊，我們當然就會想要積極跟他們聯繫，給他們做一些專題報導啦！或者是人物的採訪。不過，因為主責單位來講，就是要有一些配合的專業人士跟預算來做執行，但是僑委會可以扮演提供資訊角色的這種功能。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我剛剛這邊也建議，就是快速地說完。除了剛剛海外僑民為臺灣代表隊加油，第二個就是我們希望僑委會有沒有機會提供體育署作為邀請入籍，讓海外子弟也可以成為臺灣國家隊的戰力這個部分。我想，因為今天時間有限，後續如果僑委會對於這個事情，我們很希望可以再跟你們積極討論，把臺灣隊的體育表現可以讓更多人看見。"],["徐委員長佳青：好的，謝謝陳委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝委員長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝陳委員。","接下來請羅智強委員、羅智強、羅智強委員不在。","請張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡、張嘉郡委員不在。","請李昆澤、李昆澤、李昆澤委員不在。","我們已經登記質詢的委員，除不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","本日會議有羅智強委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄並刊登公報。請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復。本日委員口頭質詢未及答復的部分，或要求補充資料者，亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供；委員另指定期限者，從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.77346875,"end":4.148468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.36284375,"end":30.625343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.97971875,"end":88.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.24909375,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.97846875,"end":120.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.46784375000001,"end":183.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.60846875000001,"end":139.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.49596875,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.52971875,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.45346875,"end":185.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.59596875000003,"end":193.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.03596875000002,"end":246.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.95471875,"end":218.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.03471875000002,"end":219.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.10221875000002,"end":249.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.43096875,"end":249.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.47721875000002,"end":249.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.05096875,"end":271.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.33909375,"end":269.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.31784375,"end":313.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.02221875000004,"end":299.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.06346875,"end":305.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.39159375,"end":311.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.06221875,"end":365.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.83034375,"end":368.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.59784375000004,"end":368.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.63159375000004,"end":368.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.64846875,"end":368.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.73284375000003,"end":369.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.03659375,"end":390.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.49034375,"end":382.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.50221875,"end":387.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.33721875000003,"end":417.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.47659375,"end":417.43409375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.155,"end":2.118,"text":"謝謝主席：有請委員長"},{"start":9.483,"end":30.381,"text":"陳委員你好委員長午安,我們就快速討論一下不知道委員長有沒有在海外看過台灣代表隊的比賽有曾經看過那其實我相信委員長你一定非常清楚其實不管是所謂奧運奪牌項目、亞運或者是非正式這些奪牌項目其實很多台灣代表隊到海外去比賽都非常辛苦"},{"start":31.061,"end":31.101,"text":"﹚陳培瑜﹚"},{"start":56.044,"end":59.166,"text":"這兩張照片跟委員長分享那其實呢我們台灣代表隊在海外比賽的時候僑民主動的參與真的很令人感動可是尤其是如果在對戰非主場國家非主場國家可是我們的僑民進場加油那個加油的聲音那個爆亮的聲音會讓我們客場變主場其實我們的選手會更"},{"start":74.717,"end":74.898,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":90.098,"end":110.71,"text":"這些照片裡面對代表隊的支援其實也是僑委會跟外館有串聯海外僑胞的時間點那其實每一個代表隊到不同的國家有沒有機會讓僑民更加強化跟台灣的連結那其實我們自己知道很多運動代表隊到了海外可能常常會產生很多臨時的需求其實也都不需要靠當地的僑胞給予支持跟支援"},{"start":111.65,"end":116.292,"text":"想要請教一下委員長您覺得在你接下來任期裡面有沒有機會可以像外館一樣做更多積極的協助給這些代表隊我們如果知道有些已經排定的大型比賽那我們都提前會跟僑團說是不是大家可以提早我們有些僑團還非常非常熱情還說願意讓這些比賽的隊伍在結束以後可以有一日遊或者是"},{"start":140.04,"end":140.14,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":158.908,"end":158.948,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":189.429,"end":201.981,"text":"委員長有沒有看過其實各式各樣的國家很可愛很漂亮很可愛對不對其實這個預算真的不多對不對是那如同您剛剛說你舉了巴黎奧運嘛那我剛剛其實還有說除了這些大型的比賽項目其實還有非常非常多有沒有機會來僑委會來設計這個這個加油棒然後因為真的預算不多有沒有機會讓我們也許從今年巴黎奧運開始示範開始"},{"start":211.891,"end":220.075,"text":"我們一般來說我們過去都是直接已經有採購的就是我們有很多小國旗手搖旗這種我們大概都會直接寄出去給僑團讓他馬上可以運用那加油棒我們是可以來跟僑團討論我們怎麼樣近年來有一些僑團很可愛他們就定期已經都採購了比方說有這個大型的布偶台灣黑熊他們就會把它"},{"start":235.564,"end":238.966,"text":"其實你剛說到另外一個重點我就先簡單回復一下你剛說如果你們可以提早知道運動賽事那這個部分我們也會協同體育署希望他們可以更加積極把所有的訊息都通知給僑委會"},{"start":262.398,"end":265.459,"text":"我剛說說這種大型的比賽其實還有非常非常多比賽的選手也很需要當地的僑民為他們加油好嗎這個部分我們會協同提出其實連同這個電競比賽我們也都很關心是那些年輕學生他們去到這個海外做電競比賽的時候那這不一定是跟這個體委會有關聯的"},{"start":283.687,"end":309.633,"text":"但是我們要只要我們注意到或者有時候是僑胞回過頭來會跟我們說我們有接到訊息了什麼什麼什麼要來像我最近就接到說北印尼的樂旗隊他們7月1號要去加拿大表演然後也希望我們可以協助做什麼那只要我們在當地有僑團跟僑民我們都會協助說提前把這個資訊給他們那如果有表演或者是比賽的時候大家都可以去場邊給他們加油打氣甚至接待他們"},{"start":313.174,"end":313.214,"text":"臺美聯姻"},{"start":330.526,"end":355.836,"text":"四星高中生今年入圍2024年麥當勞高中全明星賽的提名名單那他們是怎麼被發現的其實在熱心的球評跟球迷他們在看很多運動賽事的時候發現其實不是只有他們在足球界還有陳昌元這個優秀的台灣比利時聯英子弟那他們被發現之後呢其實我們來看我們到底橋尾會可以做什麼其實在菲律賓泰國跟很多歐洲國家他們對於有血緣關係的球員"},{"start":357.657,"end":364.862,"text":"他們會納入很重要的國家運動政策發展的人才網絡項目之一不知道這個部分僑委會有沒有主動發掘人才的可能性就是關於這種聯姻的部分如果我們有相關這個僑界報給我們的資訊我們當然就會想要積極跟他們聯繫給他們做一些專題報導或者是人物的採訪"},{"start":379.472,"end":382.194,"text":"主責單位來講要有一些配合的專業人士跟預算來做執行但是僑委會可以扮演提供資訊角色的功能所以我剛剛這邊有建議啦就是快速的說完除了剛剛這個海外僑民為台灣代表隊加油第二個就是我們想要希望僑委會有沒有機會邀請體育署作為邀請入籍"},{"start":400.009,"end":400.429,"text":"臺灣的體育表現讓更多人看見"}]}},{"id":"151436","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151436","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44593e80d7fffeb795c0525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c94ff30f6c757e0e6d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"11:43:58 - 11:56:59","影片長度":"00:13:01","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":781,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:56:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:43:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":824,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時44分）主席！我請金管委員黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好！"],["王委員世堅：黃主委！昨天我們金管會公布有6家銀行在針對歐美商辦授信的部分踩雷啦！更讓我們訝異的是6家裡面竟然有5家公股行庫，這一點讓我們覺得不可思議耶！因為財政部也好金管會也好，一再的三令五申，希望資金能夠留在我們國內來投資公共建設，這幾年就不要往國外去做這些不當的授信，所以我現在要問的就是，你初步的報告是說這6家踩雷的金額不算太大，大概一百億台幣，既然你昨天公布了，那順便讓我們知道一下是哪6家銀行，好不好？尤其是哪5家公營行庫，連公營行庫都調皮搗蛋，不聽政府的勸！是哪幾家？"],["黃主任委員天牧：剛才也有委員垂詢，大概就是三商銀─彰化、第一、華南，然後還有兆豐跟臺灣銀行。"],["王委員世堅：三商銀？連臺銀都在內？哇！臺銀是模範生耶！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，授信有問題不見得一定是中間有弊端啦，有些是風險判斷的問題。"],["王委員世堅：風險判斷的錯誤就是了啊！模範生也會犯這樣的錯誤我覺得很訝異啦！模範生頂多是忘了帶手帕，指甲忘了剪，怎麼會搞出這樣的差錯呢？現在你們所了解的、掌握的，這樣子在海外歐美投資商辦還有暴險的，根據你們給我的資料也還有很多，暴險金額大概有1,000億台幣左右耶！"],["黃主任委員天牧：1,400億。"],["王委員世堅：1,400億耶！那這些部分怎麼辦？黃主委去年有說要做海外金檢，請問海外金檢做了沒？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有做，其實有的在……"],["王委員世堅：有做又發生踩雷的事？然後現在很可能暴險的還有1,400多億，那這做跟沒做有什麼差別嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我們去金檢的時候，這些貸款都已經在做了，只是去檢查它承貸過程中的流程是不是有依照相關的規定執行。"],["王委員世堅：你做了海外金檢之後，你認為這些授信，包括已經踩雷的或者即將暴險的一千四百多億，加起來共計1,500多億有問題嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：基本上，檢查局這邊的結果應該大體上沒有什麼重大的缺失，都是程序面的問題。"],["王委員世堅：大體上沒有重大缺失？統統沒有缺失？程序面的問題？他第一個不合程序的就是不聽政府的勸，不是嗎？我們都呼籲要把資金留在國內，要趕快加速我們的公共建設，結果他們不聽話，還是跑了出去，這就是程序面有問題。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我們國營銀行在海外有幾百家分行，那是海外分行所做的，它本來就在海外，就是要做海外的授信。"],["王委員世堅：對，海外的授信本來就該做，但是歐洲尤其美國，美國那麼大，他們的商辦授信要特別小心，它到處這邊開發一下那邊開發一下，這類商業物件太多了，隨著景氣瞻之在前忽焉在後的，一下在左一下在右，這很難拿捏的，不是嗎？本來對這個部分就要特別小心，你有這些銀行到國外去，有那些分行，並不是說非得要做一些授信案或一定要做多少授信案，沒有給他們這樣子的壓力，不是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，可是海外分行就是要靠授信才能夠有收入的。"],["王委員世堅：對啦！可是大政策、大方向都告訴它現在該緊縮的時候，該避險不避險，為了賺那一點利息，不但沒賺到，本金還被倒掉，那不是很慘嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，委員您指示的對啦，其實我們兩年前也都提醒，因為整個的經濟景氣對於商辦的使用率都有改變，所以提醒大家注意，這個我們也有提醒啦，有些發生的問題是因為很早就帶出去的。"],["王委員世堅：很早就帶出去？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是、是。"],["王委員世堅：好啦！我希望你們的海外金檢不只是去年做，往後這應該例行性的、定期的去做海外金檢。","另外還有一件，我也覺得很離譜，就是我昨天提到的三大租賃公司薯條三兄弟，他們的老大哥中租迪和，去年公股行庫聯貸給它1,260億，聯貸給中租迪和的時候有跟它加註一個條件，就是這些資金不能拿到對岸的中國去做投資授信，有這樣跟它要求啊，不是嗎？好啦！它拿到聯貸了，這個薯條三兄弟的老大就公然在中國那邊大做特做，拿到中國去做，怎麼知道的？黃主委你也很清楚嘛，你看他們去年的財報，去年的財報有35%的利潤來自中國，那就很清楚啦，三令五申跟它說授信的條件，就是這一筆不要拿到中國去做，它照樣拿去做！現在拿出來的成績說：有啦！我們公司1/3的獲利來自它！黃主委，第一點，這樣子的獲利不可信，這樣子的獲利就是他們公司高層大家分一分而已。第二點，隱藏的危機根本全然不知啊，不是嗎？中國那邊現在經濟衰退，各行各業都衰退，當國外歐美日自由世界的資金都大量從中國那邊撤離的時候，只有這一家無敵鐵金剛拿著我們臺灣存款戶的錢大剌剌的就過去了。我認為他們這樣子的財報只是表面的，這樣的財報，第一，馬上就違背了我們的授信條件、授信的要求，不是嗎？所以我希望黃主委回去把這查清楚，聯貸給它的是哪幾家銀行？一定要查。第二，誰是主辦銀行？有加註這一條，寫得很清楚，聯貸給你這1,260億不得到中國放款，就這麼清楚，他們公然就這麼去啦！這個你查一下，多久時間可以給我這些資料？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們一週之內提供給委員，謝謝委員。"],["王委員世堅：多久之內？"],["黃主任委員天牧：一週可以嗎？"],["王委員世堅：一週之內？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["王委員世堅：再來我要問你的是類似這樣，就是銀行加註貸款條件如果違背的時候，是不是可以立刻收回這筆貸款？不是嗎？他都違背了啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，我們一定瞭解，不過跟委員報告一下，我們的瞭解目前在國內對於這些租賃公司的授信，理論上如果要到中國去投資，基本上要經過投審會，不論是核准跟備查，我們的瞭解，目前真正這邊的錢到那邊的大概不到兩、三百億。"],["王委員世堅：不到兩、三百億？"],["黃主任委員天牧：差不多，但是我們可以再瞭解一下再跟您報告。"],["王委員世堅：我剛剛講的這筆聯貸……"],["黃主任委員天牧：它是在當地借錢的，它是在中國內部的金融機構借錢的，不見得完全是臺灣的錢過去。"],["王委員世堅：不見得從臺灣去？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，不見得是從臺灣過去。"],["王委員世堅：好吧，錢反正是大水庫，借了就是混在一堆，不是嗎？你說不是從我們臺灣過去的錢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大部分都是在當地借貸的。"],["王委員世堅：但是它的利潤，他們說公司的收益三分之一是來自於……，不是這樣嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個的確對某些租賃公司是事實。"],["王委員世堅：你認為他們這樣子的租賃公司那麼神通廣大，在中國另外有辦法拿到資金，那他們跟中共有共謀、有通囉？"],["黃主任委員天牧：那是一個市場機制，企業需要資金向金融機構借貸。"],["王委員世堅：別的我不敢講，不可能有資金給他們在中國那邊放，原因是什麼？中國要這麼做，他們自己就去放給他們自己人就好了，不是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解、瞭解。"],["王委員世堅：它幹麼需要我們臺灣這邊所謂的租賃公司去他們那邊做掮客（broker)，不是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["王委員世堅：它也知道這些金融掮客過來是對他們民眾多扒一層皮，不是這樣嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。我們……"],["王委員世堅：所以我認為光這幾點，我剛剛提到的，第一點，這1,260億的聯貸加註的這個條件，它沒有做到，那應該怎麼處罰它？我已經很清楚它拿到中國去。第二點，為今之計亡羊補牢，是不是現在就應該叫它把這筆貸款還回來，為什麼？因為中國那邊的市場黑矇矇一片，不要到時候又承認像美國當時的次貸風暴一樣，中國很可能就醞釀出這種風暴，到時候血本無歸，損失的就是我們臺灣貸款給它的銀行，損失的就是我們辛苦存款戶的血汗錢。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["王委員世堅：好不好？你一個禮拜內給我答復。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，瞭解。謝謝委員指導。"],["主席(李委員坤城代）：謝謝王世堅委員。","接下來請陳委員玉珍發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.219093750000003,"end":11.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.72534375,"end":14.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.297843750000002,"end":20.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.31471875,"end":20.820968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.83346875,"end":22.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.082218750000003,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.90909375,"end":24.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.05659375,"end":26.777843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.621593750000002,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.675968750000003,"end":31.772843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.127218750000004,"end":33.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.439093750000005,"end":36.345968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.03784375,"end":38.337218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.72534375,"end":42.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.46721875,"end":44.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.47971875,"end":45.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.049093750000004,"end":47.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.344093750000006,"end":55.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.81971875,"end":60.595343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.439093750000005,"end":63.531593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.08846875,"end":64.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.94471875,"end":68.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.65721875,"end":72.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.66096875000001,"end":73.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.77471875,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.80346875000001,"end":83.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.51159375,"end":83.86596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.08534375,"end":95.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.84721875000001,"end":99.81284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.70346875,"end":97.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.04096875,"end":98.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.07846875000001,"end":101.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.42846875000001,"end":110.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.31784375000001,"end":109.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.62971875000001,"end":112.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.78971875,"end":113.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.61221875000001,"end":117.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.98721875000001,"end":126.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.66534375,"end":129.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.27221875,"end":130.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.35659375,"end":134.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.13221875000002,"end":138.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.89534375,"end":139.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.45221875000001,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.54034375,"end":144.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.66221875000002,"end":148.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.15534375000001,"end":149.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.16784375,"end":153.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.64409375,"end":159.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.15784375,"end":162.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.99284375000002,"end":163.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.05596875,"end":166.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.66721875000002,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.40971875000002,"end":169.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.16471875000002,"end":171.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.97034375,"end":173.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.37096875,"end":173.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.97409375,"end":180.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.67784375000002,"end":183.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.54659375,"end":183.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.64784375000002,"end":185.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.57596875000002,"end":185.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.13284375,"end":186.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.54596875000001,"end":188.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.14909375000002,"end":190.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.34721875000002,"end":191.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.56221875,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.64596875,"end":195.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.66284375,"end":208.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.36971875,"end":212.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.22971875000002,"end":216.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.84096875,"end":219.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.52409375000002,"end":224.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.76784375000003,"end":232.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.28596875000002,"end":233.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.56409375,"end":235.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.69471875000002,"end":236.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.41159375,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.63471875000002,"end":246.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.75596875000002,"end":250.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.55284375000002,"end":255.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.88971875000001,"end":256.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.88534375,"end":257.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.77534375,"end":260.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.16721875,"end":264.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.25159375000004,"end":263.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.10346875,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.18346875000003,"end":267.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.49534375,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.27096875,"end":276.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.71784375000004,"end":276.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.35909375,"end":278.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.67096875000004,"end":279.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.34159375,"end":282.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.24409375,"end":284.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.65721875,"end":288.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.85909375,"end":292.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.06534375,"end":296.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.45284375,"end":301.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.82346875,"end":303.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.59534375000004,"end":307.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.96159375,"end":310.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.07096875,"end":313.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.34471875,"end":324.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.11096875000004,"end":330.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.59534375000004,"end":336.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.78846875000005,"end":337.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.22721875,"end":337.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.80096875000004,"end":338.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.44221875,"end":344.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.46659375,"end":352.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.65096875,"end":353.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.96721875000003,"end":359.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.19846875,"end":359.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.26596875,"end":368.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.64846875,"end":370.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.03221875,"end":370.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.21784375000004,"end":370.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.21346875,"end":375.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.63471875000005,"end":377.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.01409375000003,"end":379.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.61284375,"end":385.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.99596875000003,"end":387.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.91971875,"end":389.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.78846875000005,"end":391.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.17221875,"end":392.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.15909375,"end":396.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.74534375,"end":398.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.27659375,"end":401.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.01034375,"end":403.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.00159375000004,"end":405.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.52846875,"end":413.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.66659375,"end":423.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.01534375,"end":425.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.34409375,"end":428.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.17909375000005,"end":429.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.34346875,"end":431.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.65096875,"end":435.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.17784375,"end":440.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.10971875,"end":444.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.78846875000005,"end":449.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.96909375,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.60909375000006,"end":459.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.36409375000005,"end":461.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.84909375,"end":467.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.41784375000003,"end":469.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.91534375000003,"end":475.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.93534375,"end":480.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.69846875,"end":488.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.87846875,"end":492.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.37159375000005,"end":495.37971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.80159375000005,"end":497.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.58596875,"end":498.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.68284375,"end":500.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.13409375000003,"end":509.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.56721875000005,"end":512.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.82409375,"end":515.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.1865937499999,"end":517.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.65034375,"end":520.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.82284375,"end":522.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.0209687500001,"end":524.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.82659375,"end":526.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.8515937500001,"end":528.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.75846875,"end":536.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.62221875,"end":542.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.0515937499999,"end":546.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.74721875,"end":548.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.98721875,"end":555.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.33221875,"end":557.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.58096875,"end":558.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.1797187500001,"end":560.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.92221875,"end":561.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.4578437499999,"end":563.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.42784375,"end":566.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.55846875,"end":568.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.6172187500001,"end":570.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.20346875,"end":576.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.2240937500001,"end":573.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.9665937500001,"end":574.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.31659375,"end":575.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.2234687499999,"end":578.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.90659375,"end":582.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.28159375,"end":584.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.41221875,"end":585.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.51721875,"end":590.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.19596875,"end":596.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.8490937500001,"end":602.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.96721875,"end":597.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.27846875,"end":611.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.8172187499999,"end":613.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.84221875,"end":614.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.6140937499999,"end":616.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.23409375,"end":617.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.16221875,"end":623.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.10659375,"end":624.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.82784375,"end":633.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.8784687500001,"end":625.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.0122187500001,"end":633.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.67034375,"end":633.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.8390937500001,"end":633.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.8728437500001,"end":633.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.90659375,"end":633.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.9740937500001,"end":634.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.0078437500001,"end":637.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.0959687500001,"end":640.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.3484687499999,"end":643.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.62221875,"end":645.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.5503437500001,"end":647.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.4865937500001,"end":650.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.14034375,"end":655.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.9115937500001,"end":657.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.4934687500001,"end":659.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.4722187500001,"end":663.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.6572187500001,"end":663.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.43346875,"end":670.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.88784375,"end":673.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.7822187500001,"end":675.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.6047187500001,"end":676.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.0265937500001,"end":677.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.7140937500001,"end":682.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.01721875,"end":683.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.6540937500001,"end":683.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.27846875,"end":694.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.0278437500001,"end":696.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.0447187500001,"end":695.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.36096875,"end":698.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.29284375,"end":702.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.6215937500001,"end":703.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.4272187500001,"end":706.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.19471875,"end":707.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.1397187500002,"end":708.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.4053437500002,"end":714.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.5859687500001,"end":715.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.77971875,"end":718.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.15909375,"end":719.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.86784375,"end":721.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.68596875,"end":723.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.66034375,"end":725.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.5547187500001,"end":727.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.40659375,"end":730.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.25846875,"end":731.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.96284375,"end":735.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.59096875,"end":737.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.9240937500001,"end":739.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.99971875,"end":741.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.22721875,"end":751.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.02721875,"end":754.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.0859687500001,"end":758.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.56221875,"end":761.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.02159375,"end":762.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.8103437500001,"end":765.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.8015937499999,"end":768.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.1428437500001,"end":769.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.1047187500001,"end":780.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.72471875,"end":772.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.69034375,"end":776.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.7490937500002,"end":777.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.03159375,"end":779.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.6897187500001,"end":779.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.89221875,"end":781.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.88784375,"end":780.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.9553437500001,"end":781.5459687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.794,"end":35.94,"text":"主席我請金管會黃主委。黃主委昨天我們金管會公佈有6家銀行在針對歐美商辦授信的部分踩雷"},{"start":37.216,"end":64.751,"text":"那6家裡面更讓我們訝異的竟然是有5家公股、行庫這一點讓我們覺得是不可思議欸因為財政部也好、軍管會也好一再的三令五審希望資金能夠留在我們國內來投資公共建設那這一陣子這幾年就不要往國外"},{"start":66.007,"end":80.729,"text":"財政委員會第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2會期財政委員會第3會期財政委員會第4會期財政委員會第5會期財政委員會第6會期財政委員會第7會期財政委員會第8會期財政委員會第9會期財政委員會第8會期財政委員會第9會期財政委員會第10會期財政委員會第11會期財政委員會第11會期財政委員會第12會期財政委員會第12會期財政委員會第13會期財政委員會第13會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第14會期財政委員會第15會期"},{"start":96.259,"end":109.906,"text":"連公營航庫都調皮搗蛋不聽政府的勸哪幾家剛才也有人槌尋大概就是三商營、彰化第一、華南嘛然後兆豐跟臺銀臺銀臺灣銀行連臺銀哇臺銀是模範生欸"},{"start":118.035,"end":140.501,"text":"報告員這個這個授信有問題不見得一定是中間有弊端啦是他有些是風險的判斷的問題風險判斷的錯誤就是啦模範生也會犯這樣的錯誤我覺得很很訝異啦齁模範生頂多是忘了帶手帕指甲忘了剪怎麼會搞這麼這樣的差錯呢好那現在"},{"start":145.697,"end":169.341,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":175.054,"end":192.915,"text":"先前你有提過去年你有說要做海外精檢那請問海外精檢做了沒有做其實有的在有做又發生踩雷的然後現在很可能撲雷的還有1400多億"},{"start":195.68,"end":217.775,"text":"那這做跟沒做有什麼差別嗎?法務人員我們去精檢的時候這些貸款都已經是已經在做了只是去檢查他的做承貸過程中的流程是不是有依照相關的規定去做那做的那好那你海外精檢做的你認為這些授信包括已經採的或者即將曝顯的這1400多億加起來剩1500多億你認為你去精檢之後覺得這些有問題嗎?"},{"start":225.962,"end":254.468,"text":"基本上檢察局這邊的結果應該大體上沒有沒有什麼重大的缺失都是程序面的問題是程序面的問題通通沒有缺失程序面程序本身就是程序他第一個不合程序的就是說他不聽政府的勸不是嗎我們都呼籲要把資金留在國內要趕快加速我們的公共建設"},{"start":256.359,"end":283.996,"text":"結果他們不聽話還是跑了出去報告委員這些是報告委員跟您報告這個是他們我們國營在海外有很多家幾百家的分行是海外在分行所做的啦所以他本來就在海外就是要做海外的授信對海外的授信本來就該做但是歐洲尤其美國美國那麼大"},{"start":285.697,"end":313.299,"text":"他們的商業商辦這樣子的授信要特別小心他到處這邊再開發一下那邊開發一下到處他商業的這樣子的物件太多啦那隨著景氣沾汁在前呼煙在後一下在左一下在右這很難拿捏的不是嗎本來對這個部分就要特別小心啦"},{"start":314.417,"end":329.867,"text":"你有這些銀行到國外去有那些分行並不是說那非得那就要一定要做一些授信案一定非得要做多少授信案沒有這樣子的壓力給他們不是嗎"},{"start":330.703,"end":353.176,"text":"可是報告委員海外分行他的收入就是要靠受信才能夠有收入的對啦大政策大方向都告訴他說現在該緊縮的時候是該避險不避險為了賺那一點利息不但沒賺到本金被倒掉那不是很慘嗎"},{"start":354.016,"end":355.317,"text":"我希望說你海外經檢不只是去年做了"},{"start":378.069,"end":405.515,"text":"往後這應該例行性的定期的去做海外精簡那另外還有一件也是我覺得很離譜啊就我昨天提到的這個三大租賃公司數條三兄弟啊這個他們的老大哥中租敵核中租敵核在去年"},{"start":407.571,"end":435.74,"text":"公股行戶連帶給他的時候連帶1260億連帶給中租敵額的時候有跟他加注一個條件就是說這些資金不能拿到對岸中國去做投資授信這樣跟他要求啊不是嗎好啦他連帶拿到啦這個薯條三兄弟的老大"},{"start":437.25,"end":448.899,"text":"就公然在中國那邊就大做特做拿到中國去做怎麼知道的欸欸黃主委你也很清楚嘛你看他們去年的財報他去年的財報他有35%的利潤來自於中國"},{"start":458.646,"end":475.327,"text":"那就很清楚啦三令五申跟他說受信的條件就是啊那你這一筆你不要拿到中國去做他照樣拿去做那現在拿出來的成績說有啦我們公司三分之一的獲利來自於他"},{"start":477.154,"end":497.225,"text":"黃志偉第一點這樣子的獲利不可信這樣子的獲利就是公司他們的高層大家分一分而已第二點隱藏的危機根本全然不知啊不是嗎中國那邊現在經濟衰退各行各業都衰退"},{"start":500.141,"end":527.956,"text":"國外歐美日自由世界的資金都大量從中國那邊撤離的時候只有這一家無敵鐵金剛拿著我們台灣我們存款戶的錢大剌剌的就過去了所以我認為啊他這樣子的財報只是表面的啦"},{"start":529.023,"end":553.021,"text":"這樣的財報第一點黃主委這馬上就違背了我們的授信條件授信的要求不是嗎所以我希望黃主委你回去把這個查清楚連帶給他的是哪幾家銀行一定要查然後誰是主辦銀行第二點有加注這一條寫很清楚連帶給你這1260億不得到中國去做放款"},{"start":557.648,"end":585.766,"text":"就這麼清楚他公然就這麼去啦所以這個你查一下你多久時間可以給我這個我們一週之內提供給委員是不是委員多久之內一週可以嗎一週之內這樣子的情況再來我要問你的就是說像類似這樣就是說銀行加注"},{"start":587.574,"end":607.405,"text":"一、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總"},{"start":617.29,"end":621.252,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":644.685,"end":670.777,"text":"台灣我們台灣過去的錢大部分都是在當地借貸的但是他的利潤他說他公司的收益三分之一是來自於不是這樣嗎這個的確對某些租賃公司是事實是事實那你認為他們這樣子的租賃公司那麼神通廣大在中國他另外有辦法拿到資金"},{"start":672.93,"end":697.648,"text":"哦!那他們跟中共有共謀囉!有通囉!沒有,那是一個市場機制啦!那個企業需要資金向金融機構借貸。別的我不敢講!不可能有資金給他們在中國那邊放!原因是什麼?中國要這麼做,他們自己就去放給他們自己人就好啦!不是嗎?他幹嘛需要說我們台灣這邊的"},{"start":700.659,"end":726.734,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":728.467,"end":751.556,"text":"加注的這個條件他沒有做到那應該怎麼處罰他我已經很清楚他拿到中國去第二點是不是應該唯金之器王洋補牢現在就應該叫他把這筆貸款還回來為什麼因為中國那邊的市長黑媽媽一片"},{"start":753.149,"end":755.39,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"}]}},{"id":"151435","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151435","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4459e1208f25d0c791604d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94db83578cf04ae42b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:44:14 - 11:53:47","影片長度":"00:09:33","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":573,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:53:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:44:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1184,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時44分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長、台電的代表。"],["主席：我們再請王部長跟王總經理。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：兩位好，之前我在質詢國發會的時候就點出，我們的國發基金拿了將近快要30億連同耀華玻璃去投資了一家虧損累累、累積虧損上百億的光電公司，結果搞了半天以後，政府花納稅人的錢，我不會說那個叫產業升級，根本是讓國發基金變成紓困基金，然後那家公司的董事長就成為蔡英文綠能後援會的總會長，這樣子的官商關係是我沒有辦法接受的。但這個跟部長沒有關係，因為接下來這家公司一片綠友友，全部都是用民進黨的權貴，在那些公司裡面，有的當獨董、有的當董事、有的安插自己的人進去，但我關心的事情是什麼？這家公司當初跟經濟部承諾它不會賣股，結果拿到了彰濱工業區的案子以後，聯合再生工程把股票賣得乾乾淨淨的，套利大賺一筆了以後，那時候的工業局局長都說：這個不是我提高聲量而已，我們部長都提高聲量。可以這樣胡搞瞎搞！其中有一個關鍵的問題，當初這一家後台很硬的聯合再生去拿彰濱工業區那邊的地的時候，它裡面有做承諾，為了要取得在地居民、在地環保團體的同意、點頭，他們做了什麼承諾？他們做的承諾是他們要保留一個生態熱區，結果案場拿到了，土地拿到了，賣股後錢賺了，結果前面的承諾全部拋諸腦後，發文要求經濟部工業局同意他們之前承諾的那個生態特區算了、不要做了。部長，有沒有這樣的事？"],["王部長美花：第一個，在生態熱區的部分，它在招標的時候確實有講，不過，它是提到三跟四這兩個部分有標到的話，它要來做，因為這個生態熱區會跨到三跟四兩個地域，但是它最後只拿到一個標案，沒有拿到兩個標案。"],["黃委員國昌：所以呢？所以這個承諾就不用履行、沒有關係？這是經濟部的立場嗎？"],["王部長美花：第一個，當時這樣的一個規範，因為標案不同，現在執行的部分，它去擴大了這個間距。但委員提到這樣的問題，我們現在也會請它來跟我們說明這樣擴大間距對生態的部分是不是有做好保護，我們也會邀請相關的專家一起來看。"],["黃委員國昌：我先跟部長講我的立場，廠商在拿標案的時候做了很多承諾，其目的是什麼？因為它要拿到好的分數，它要拿到那個標案，結果標案到手、落袋了以後，前面做的承諾全部都忘了，能不做就不做，廠商站在自私自利的立場或許可以這樣幹，但我把這件事情提出來的理由是什麼？經濟部也好，我們的主管機關也好，都要有自己的立場，不能讓廠商這樣胡作非為。部長剛剛說了，我提了這個問題以後，你們會請聯合再生好好說明，我靜待他們最後說明的結果以及經濟部做什麼樣子的處置，國家的光電政策絕對不是讓這些覺得自己後台很硬的廠商愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞。","除了這件以外，我們繼續再往下看，聯合再生一樣跑去跟台水拿標案，取得台水公司的光電標案，讓台水放他們的光電板，台灣自來水公司啦！案場部分我全部都列下來，結果它拿到了這個案場以後，現在開始要進行契約的變更。聯合再生內部討論的時候說這個電我們來賣給雲豹，可以賺更多的錢，為什麼要賣給雲豹？內部會議討論說，因為雲豹，我們可以處理台水、可以處理台電，他們通通都會同意我們來修改契約。我接到這個檢舉了以後，我一定要求證，並不是說人家怎麼講，我就怎麼相信，所以我召集了台電跟台水到黨團的辦公室來，我當面具名跟他們提出這個檢舉，有沒有這樣的事？台電跟台水都跟我說：有，他們有提出換約的要求。我那個時候告訴我們的國營事業：堅守立場啊！你們是在為國家做事啊！不是在為特定的光電業者牟利啊！結果台水有堅守立場，台水函復給我的是：回復聯合再生，我們不同意修改合約。台水堅守了立場，但我今天利用質詢的時候特別跟部長報告這件事情，這個聯合再生非常的囂張，台水不同意之後，他們現在的計畫是什麼？硬幹！台水不同意，光台水不同意，我們還是要硬幹！完全不理台水的意見！他們也發了什麼？他們也發了約跟台電說，它要終止跟台電之間購售的合約，這件事情是不是真的？"],["王部長美花：我今天不瞭解……"],["王總經理耀庭：報告委員……"],["黃委員國昌：這件事情是真的！"],["王總經理耀庭：確實它要跟我們解約，就是FIT躉購合約。"],["黃委員國昌：台電同意了沒有？"],["王總經理耀庭：我瞭解的是在公司的程序上，我們希望把綠電都給民間業者的廠商……"],["黃委員國昌：所以你們同意嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：原則上我們是同意。"],["黃委員國昌：所以就落入他們的套路了。好，請經濟部部長，台電要同意，台電負責；但台水不同意喔！當初台水跟他們簽約的時候是已經講好了喔，我把這些案場給你，一度多少錢、要怎麼算，全部簽了什麼樣的約，這又是第二個例子喔！第二個例子是什麼？廠商拿到國家的資源了以後，它真的在幫國家想嗎？它沒有在幫國家想，它愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞，講話很囂張耶！「我背後可以找到人去處理啊！我就是要硬闖啊！你台水不同意又如何？」這件事情部長知不知道？"],["王部長美花：委員，我這樣聽起來有幾個可能，我需要去瞭解，假設今天它的太陽光電是賣台電，那是躉購費率，但是它要跟台電終止去賣給民間，我們是歡迎的，因為這個就直接賣給民間，台電就不需要用躉購費率來收購。至於委員講的這個台水不同意的部分，這個我回去再瞭解是什麼樣一個狀況。"],["黃委員國昌：我這樣講好了啦，因為台水也好、台電也好，上面的主管機關都是我們的經濟部嘛！我今天利用這個質詢告訴部長一個基本的觀念，廠商站在他們自己的立場，他們想要賺錢，但我的要求只有一個，我們的主管機關在面對這件事情的時候是要站在納稅人的立場、站在國家的立場，以納稅人的立場跟國家的利益為最優先，不可以讓他們這個樣子愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞，手法如出一轍啊！當初拿彰濱工業區的時候做一堆承諾，拿到了以後愛怎麼改就怎麼改，因為我們主管機關不會管嘛！它把主管機關當「細漢仔」，我先騙到了，騙到了以後，我後續要怎麼處理、修改契約、變更契約、生態熱區不用保留。他們的手法一模一樣，部長你看不出來嗎？"],["王部長美花：可能這兩個案情不太一樣，這個我回去再瞭解。"],["黃委員國昌：部長，你需要多少時間？"],["王部長美花：我一個禮拜應該就可以瞭解一下。"],["黃委員國昌：好，請經濟部一個禮拜給我書面報告這件事要怎麼處理，可以嗎？"],["王部長美花：好，可以，沒問題。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請李柏毅委員，請做詢答。","我們中午不休息，一直到我們會議完整結束，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.0559687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.25659375,"end":16.551593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.652843750000002,"end":17.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.93971875,"end":18.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.289718750000002,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.38659375,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.870968750000003,"end":25.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.195343750000003,"end":32.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.42659375,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.19846875,"end":38.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.42159375,"end":39.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.041593750000004,"end":41.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.37471875,"end":44.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.64846875,"end":46.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.922218750000006,"end":48.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.765968750000006,"end":49.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.487218750000004,"end":52.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.76534375,"end":55.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.87034375,"end":58.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.73909375,"end":62.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.56971875000001,"end":64.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.39221875,"end":65.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.24846875,"end":66.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.14284375,"end":68.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.35784375,"end":69.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.52221875000001,"end":71.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.95221875,"end":72.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.99846875,"end":73.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.14596875000001,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.54659375,"end":78.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.53346875000001,"end":79.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.28846875,"end":82.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.59596875000001,"end":84.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.25409375000001,"end":86.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.73471875,"end":88.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.69221875000001,"end":91.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.05034375000001,"end":93.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.33284375000001,"end":100.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.30221875000001,"end":101.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.28096875,"end":107.27159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.33909375,"end":110.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.56221875000001,"end":111.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.92909375,"end":113.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.95409375000001,"end":117.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.32909375000001,"end":120.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.97409375000001,"end":122.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.96534375,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.23909375000001,"end":131.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.68971875,"end":132.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.93846875,"end":134.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.47409375,"end":138.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.86159375,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.07659375,"end":141.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.91596875000002,"end":143.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.78909375,"end":145.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.72971875000002,"end":147.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.51846875,"end":149.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.50971875000002,"end":150.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.01159375,"end":153.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.86346875,"end":157.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.21721875,"end":159.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.10284375,"end":180.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.74534375000002,"end":184.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.91346875000002,"end":210.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.03221875000003,"end":208.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.92221875,"end":210.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.78284375,"end":210.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.86721875,"end":211.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.39034375,"end":215.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.21659375000002,"end":217.29659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.93784375,"end":218.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.11909375000002,"end":220.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.16096875000002,"end":222.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.20284375000003,"end":226.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.22346875000002,"end":227.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.84346875000003,"end":228.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.10909375000003,"end":229.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.18909375,"end":230.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.62346875,"end":234.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.52159375000002,"end":238.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.47471875000002,"end":239.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.16221875000002,"end":241.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.93409375000002,"end":242.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.87471875000003,"end":246.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.86159375000003,"end":247.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.16096875000002,"end":253.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.71284375000002,"end":256.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.19346875,"end":258.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.48409375,"end":260.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.37409375000004,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.55096875000004,"end":264.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.05284375,"end":267.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.37721875,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.70159375000003,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.95034375,"end":273.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.97971875,"end":275.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.76846875,"end":276.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.30409375,"end":280.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.25721875,"end":281.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.32034375,"end":282.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.97409375,"end":285.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.51784375,"end":287.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.73284375000003,"end":289.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.56784375,"end":291.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.79971875,"end":295.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.57534375,"end":299.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.54534375000003,"end":300.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.40159375,"end":303.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.00034375,"end":305.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.02534375000005,"end":312.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.89346875,"end":314.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.64846875,"end":315.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.96471875000003,"end":316.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.16284375000004,"end":318.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.25534375,"end":322.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.52909375,"end":325.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.19096875,"end":327.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.89534375,"end":331.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.24909375000004,"end":332.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.22784375000003,"end":334.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.15159375,"end":336.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.82221875000005,"end":338.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.55596875000003,"end":340.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.58534375000005,"end":342.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.03221875,"end":343.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.13346875,"end":343.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.23471875,"end":343.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.26846875,"end":347.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.29721875,"end":350.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.01409375000003,"end":353.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.25409375000004,"end":355.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.48596875000004,"end":356.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.00471875,"end":358.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.02971875000003,"end":360.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.10534375000003,"end":362.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.99534375,"end":363.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.27784375000005,"end":365.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.04971875,"end":367.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.32784375,"end":371.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.66909375,"end":373.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.40284375000005,"end":375.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.76971875000004,"end":377.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.84096875,"end":381.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.70971875000004,"end":383.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.89909375,"end":386.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.26159375000003,"end":388.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.88159375000004,"end":389.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.19784375,"end":391.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.58159375,"end":397.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.14596875,"end":399.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.12034375,"end":406.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.52096875,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.13221875000005,"end":405.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.05596875000003,"end":407.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.73096875000005,"end":418.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.02096875,"end":416.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.10909375,"end":421.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.93971875000005,"end":423.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.34034375000005,"end":425.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.90534375000004,"end":426.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.32284375,"end":428.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.02721875000003,"end":430.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.10284375000003,"end":433.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.61721875,"end":434.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.09784375000004,"end":437.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.71346875,"end":439.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.21534375000005,"end":440.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.97471875,"end":442.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.74659375000005,"end":445.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.48034375000003,"end":446.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.06659375000004,"end":449.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.10409375,"end":451.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.34846875000005,"end":453.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.79534375000003,"end":456.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.91721875,"end":459.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.14471875000004,"end":460.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.20784375000005,"end":462.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.67159375000006,"end":464.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.34221875000003,"end":467.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.95346875,"end":468.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.97034375000004,"end":470.45534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.60284375000003,"end":483.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.31409375000004,"end":495.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.58659375,"end":498.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.73784375,"end":499.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.23971875,"end":502.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.04096875000005,"end":505.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.57221875000005,"end":507.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.52971875000003,"end":510.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.07346875,"end":512.5247187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.98034375,"end":517.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.80659375,"end":519.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.34221875,"end":525.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.95721875,"end":527.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.89784375,"end":531.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.72846875,"end":532.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.0109687500001,"end":536.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.9597187500001,"end":538.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.2378437500001,"end":540.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.72284375,"end":543.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.5915937500001,"end":547.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9284687500001,"end":548.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.12659375,"end":549.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.1940937500001,"end":559.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.7253437500001,"end":552.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.81284375,"end":559.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.69034375,"end":562.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.39471875,"end":565.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.4153437500001,"end":564.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.73159375,"end":567.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.3728437500001,"end":567.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.46471875,"end":573.20721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":1.19,"text":"現在我們請黃國昌委員請做詢答謝謝主席麻煩有請部長我們再請王部長跟王總經理"},{"start":28.223,"end":45.968,"text":"表會好之前我在質詢國發會的時候我是點出來我們的國發基金拿了將近快要30億聯同耀華玻璃去投了一家虧損累累累積虧損上百億的光電公司結果搞了半天了以後"},{"start":47.984,"end":65.795,"text":"政府發納稅的錢我不會說那叫產業升級根本讓國發基金變成紓困基金然後那家公司的董事長就成為蔡英文綠年後援會的總會長這樣子的官商關係是我沒有辦法接受的"},{"start":67.439,"end":88.209,"text":"這個跟部長沒有關係因為接下來這家公司一片綠油油全部都是用民進黨的權貴在那些公司裡面有的當獨董有的當董事有的安插自己的私人進去但我關心的事情是什麼"},{"start":88.954,"end":113.311,"text":"這家公司當初跟經濟部承諾他不會賣股結果拿到了張斌工業區以後聯合再生工程股票賣得乾乾淨淨的套利大賺一筆了以後大賺一筆了以後讓那時候的工業局局長都說這個不是我提高聲量而已我們部長都提高聲量可以這樣胡搞瞎搞"},{"start":114.028,"end":137.471,"text":"其中有一個關鍵的問題當初這一家後台很硬的聯合再生去拿張濱工業區那邊的地的時候他裡面有做承諾為了要取得在地的居民在地環保團體的同意點頭他們做了什麼承諾他們做的承諾是他們要保留一個生態熱區"},{"start":139.182,"end":159.301,"text":"結果案場拿到了土地拿到了賣股錢賺了結果前面的承諾全部拋諸腦後發文要求經濟部工業局同意他們我們之前承諾的那個生態特區算了不要做了部長有沒有這樣的事"},{"start":161.421,"end":165.865,"text":"第一個他在生態熱區的部分他確實招標的時候有講不過他是提到他3跟4兩個部分標到的話他要來做因為這個生態熱區會跨到3跟4兩個的地域但是他最後只拿到一個標案沒有拿到兩個標案"},{"start":180.8,"end":181.901,"text":"所以這個承諾就不用履行沒有關係這是經濟部的立場嗎"},{"start":211.46,"end":239.234,"text":"我先跟部長講我的立場啊是廠商在拿標案的時候做了很多承諾目的是什麼他要拿到好的分數嘛他要拿到那個標案嘛結果東西標案到手落袋了以後前面做的承諾全部都忘了能不做就不做廠商從他自私自利的立場或許可以這樣幹但我把這件事情提出來的理由是什麼經濟部也好"},{"start":240.205,"end":258.402,"text":"我們的主管機關也好要有自己的立場不能讓廠商這樣胡作非為部長剛剛說了我提了這個問題以後你們會請聯合再生好好說明我靜待我靜待他們最後說明的結果以及經濟部做什麼樣子的處置"},{"start":259.717,"end":285.488,"text":"國家的光電政策絕對不是讓這些覺得自己後台很硬的廠商愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞除了這些以外我們繼續再往下看聯合再生一樣跑去跟台水拿標案取得台水公司的光電標案讓台水放他們的光電板台灣自然水公司啦暗場我全部都列下來"},{"start":286.847,"end":298.558,"text":"結果他拿到了這個案場以後現在開始要做什麼事情開始要進行契約的變更聯合再生內部討論的時候說這個電我們來賣給雲豹可以賺更多的錢"},{"start":306.069,"end":318.035,"text":"那為什麼要賣給雲豹內部會議討論說因為雲豹我們可以處理台水可以處理台電他們通通都會同意我們來修改契約"},{"start":319.301,"end":346.909,"text":"我接到這個檢舉了以後我一定要求證我不是說人家怎麼講我就怎麼相信所以我召集了台電跟台水到黨團的辦公室來我當面據你跟他們提出這個檢舉有沒有這樣的事台電跟台水都跟我說有他們有提出換約的要求我那個時候告訴我們的國營事業堅守立場哈"},{"start":348.339,"end":376.298,"text":"你們是在為國家做事啊不是在為特定的光電業者謀利啊結果台水有堅守立場台水含附給我的是回復聯合再生我們不同意修改合約台水堅守立場但我今天利用質詢的時候特別跟部長報告這件事情啊是這個聯合再生啊非常的囂張啊台水不同意他們現在的計畫是什麼硬幹"},{"start":379.1,"end":406.059,"text":"臺水不同意關臺水不同意我們還是要硬幹完全不理臺水的意見他們也發了什麼他們也發了約跟臺電說他要跟中子跟臺電之間啊購售的合約這件事情是不是真的我今天不瞭解了報告委員這件事情是真的確實他要跟我們解約就是臺電同意了沒有"},{"start":408.099,"end":434.671,"text":"我瞭解的是在公司的程序上我們因為是希望把綠電都給民間業者的廠商所以你們同意嗎?是嗎?原則上我們是同意這樣子的案子所以嘛就落入他們的套路了嘛好來請經濟部部長台電要同意台電負責但台水什麼?台水不同意喔當初喔當初台水跟他們簽約的時候是已經講好了喔"},{"start":436.138,"end":462.744,"text":"我把這些案場給你一度多少錢要怎麼算全部簽了什麼約這個又是第二個例子第二個例子喔第二個例子是什麼廠商拿到國家的資源了以後他真的在幫國家想嗎他沒有在幫國家想他愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞講話很囂張欸我背後我可以找到人去處理啊"},{"start":463.717,"end":470.182,"text":"我就是要硬闖阿你台水不同意又如何這件事情部長知不知道"},{"start":472.258,"end":495.29,"text":"委員我這樣聽起來有幾個可能需要我需要了解假設今天他的太陽光電是賣給台電那是短購費率但是他要跟台電中止去賣給民間我們是歡迎的因為這個就直接賣給民間台電就不需要短購費率來收購那至於委員講的這個台水的部分不要這個部分我回去再了解是什麼樣的一個狀況因為台水也好台電也好"},{"start":498.832,"end":525.302,"text":"上面全部主管機關都是我們的經濟部嘛我今天利用這個質詢告訴部長一個基本的觀念廠商他們站在他們自己的立場他們想要賺錢但我的要求只有一個我們的主管機關在面對這件事情的時候是要站在納稅人的立場站在國家的立場以納稅人立場跟國家的利益為最優先不可以讓他們這個樣子愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞"},{"start":526.064,"end":547.574,"text":"守法如出一策啊當初拿張斌工業區的時候做一堆承諾拿到了以後愛怎麼改就怎麼改反正我們主管機關不會管嘛他把主管機關當小孩的我先騙到了騙到了以後我後續要怎麼處理修改契約、變更契約生態熱區不用保留"},{"start":549.776,"end":549.796,"text":"黃國昌"}]}},{"id":"151434","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151434","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445283fc0cfd77890ddf81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94eb800868bb88a5545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"11:42:57 - 11:52:24","影片長度":"00:09:27","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":567,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:52:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:42:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":380,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（11時43分）謝謝主席，我要請秘書長。"],["主席：有請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：林委員好。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，我想今天就不再贅述整個程序上的問題，針對民進黨團的修法，這一次召委排審的有5個案，大概可分為四大部分，就是有關國情報告、人事同意權、質詢的規範，還有建置調查權的機制。","首先，我想先針對質詢規範來就教秘書長，這一次民進黨團提案增列立法院職權行使法第二十一條第四項：「議事處依第一項登記名單擬定質詢順序及時間，立法委員依表定時間進行質詢，表定時間已屆，經唱名三次不在場者，視同放棄質詢。」我想這部分可能要改成「經主席唱名三次不在場者，視同放棄質詢」，建議你們可能要做這個修正，因為原來的議事規則是說「經主席」，「主席」兩個字好像漏掉了。","對於這樣的一個修法，我想表達的是，這部分也感謝民進黨肯定韓國瑜院長主持院會的公正無私，並無沒收他們當時一直主張的說韓院長沒收委員總質詢的權利。我想藉由這個條文的修正，我們看得出來，其實韓院長當時唱名三次，委員不在場，這個其實就是放棄質詢權了，所以才會把這種情形訂得更清楚一點。","但是把它訂在立法院職權行使法二十一條第四項是不是妥當，是不是有重複規定，我要就教一下秘書長，職權行使法第二十一條第一項規定「施政方針及施政報告之質詢，於每會期集會委員報到日起至開議後七日內登記之」，所以施政報告之後的總質詢也是採登記制。那麼在議事規則第二十九條也規定「登記發言之委員，經主席唱名三次仍不在場者，視為棄權」，所以其實議事規則已經就已登記發言的委員，如果經主席唱名三次仍不在場，就視為放棄嘛！所以我們在總質詢也適用這樣子的一個議事規則的規範，請問秘書長，你同意嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：要這樣說明，其實議事規則這部分是因為有提案討論表決，所以唱名三次是在討論中啦！那施政報告的質詢裡面，我們是在每次總質詢一開始主席就會宣告，所以當天的情況我們也一直有對外說明，是因為主席已經宣告如果你不在場的話，就是唱名三次視為棄權，已經有用現行的規範……"],["林委員思銘：是，所以依照我們……"],["周秘書長萬來：因為多數人都是引用第二十九條，我沒有特別說明，其實應該是在我們總質詢進行時已經有做那個宣告。"],["林委員思銘：是，當然秘書長講得沒有錯，在總質詢一開始院長也做這種宣告了，但是因為今天要立這個法，民進黨團它要立這個法，所以我就要就教你，因為院長在宣告，某部分他也是準用我們議事規則第二十九條的規定，所以經他唱名三次，你不到場就視為放棄嘛！所以就我個人的看法，我也建議民進黨團，既然議事規則有這麼明確的規定，是不是還要在立法院職權行使法第二十一條第四項來訂這樣的規定？會不會讓我們有畫蛇添足的感覺？我請民進黨的黨團來思考這樣的一個議題，所以我才會就教秘書長，在議事規則有規定的東西，再去立法院職權行使法來訂相關的規範，因為這是議事規則的問題，訂在職權行使法是不是會讓我們有體例不符的感覺？"],["周秘書長萬來：我可以補充一下嗎？"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["周秘書長萬來：因為民進黨團提的這個案倒不是在這個地方啦，它是要固定時間。當時黨團協商的時候，我想林委員也在嘛！"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["周秘書長萬來：那時候針對這個部分是沒有共識，所以才要求議事處去研議，那研議以後，現在議事處本身也有研議出來一個結果，如果照這個條文來就會面臨到一個狀況，就是說雖然有去登記，但是如果這個委員來不及來或是他提早結束，那官員就一定要坐在那邊等。"],["林委員思銘：是啊！會產生這種問題啊！"],["周秘書長萬來：會產生這個情況，而在演繹當中是沒辦法解決這個事。"],["林委員思銘：沒錯，會有讓官員枯等的這種情況，所以我的意思是說，其實議事規則已經訂得那麼明確了，是不是我們委員要對自己做一個自律？當我們在施政總質詢的時候，比如說今天吳思瑤委員在發言的時候，後面是莊瑞雄委員，再後面是我，那我是不是要在吳思瑤委員或者前面的委員發言的時候我就提早來，我就不要有僥倖的心態說後面那兩個委員他會質詢，他會不會改書面我們不知道嘛！所以有沒有訂這個條文的必要，我是建議民進黨團可以思考一下，並沒有反對啦！只是提出來，大家來做一個理性的思辨。","另外，針對國會調查權這個部分，民進黨針對調查權在四十五條第二項說「前項調查權之行使，僅於與憲法賦予立法院之職權有重大關聯之範圍內，始得為之」，請問秘書長，何謂「憲法賦予立法院之職權有重大關聯之範圍」？您解釋得出來嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：我沒辦法做說明，因為調查權裡面，這個地方應該是從司法院大法官會議的釋字325號跟585號來看的，不是……"],["林委員思銘：是，我了解，它是引用相關的文字。其實我的意思是說，本來憲法第六十三條就賦予立法院立法委員的職權，那我們立法委員的職權行使法在每一章也針對憲法所賦予的職權，分別把它列定一個行使職權的範圍，所以現在在第二項又講說你能行使調查權的範圍僅憲法賦予的職權有重大關聯的範圍內，所謂重大關聯範圍由誰來定義？我是要就教秘書長，誰來定義？因為這是一個非常不確定的法律概念，以後又會產生重大爭議啊！我說可以調查，你說這個跟憲法所賦予立法院的職權沒有重大關聯，又會爭吵不休，各黨各派又會有自己的意見，所以這樣的一個立法，把不確定的法律概念訂在立法院職權行使法第四十五條第二項，增列上去，您認為妥當嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：我未便表達意見，大概由審查會來做決議啦，要合議來做決定。"],["林委員思銘：是，我知道您的立場，我想我把問題點出來，請民進黨的委員也要加以思考。好，以上，謝謝。"],["主席（吳委員思瑤代）：謝謝林思銘委員的質詢。","接著有請下一位陳俊宇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.400343750000001,"end":14.459093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.20159375,"end":15.606593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.84284375,"end":17.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.48784375,"end":21.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.238468750000003,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.10721875,"end":28.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.515968750000003,"end":31.148468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.367843750000002,"end":35.704718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.10971875,"end":38.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.84346875,"end":42.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.85971875,"end":45.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.67784375,"end":47.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.00659375,"end":60.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.46034375000001,"end":65.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.43846875,"end":75.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.17096875,"end":91.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":98.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.98596875000001,"end":132.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.44909375,"end":133.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.59659375,"end":148.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.15534375000001,"end":205.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.04096875000002,"end":207.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.84659375,"end":219.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.60909375,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.41846875000002,"end":251.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.40534375000001,"end":223.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.96409375000002,"end":240.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.52034375000002,"end":244.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.64659375000002,"end":246.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.94534375,"end":266.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.62221875,"end":322.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.91721875,"end":377.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.46659375,"end":344.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.61409375,"end":345.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.90971875,"end":371.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.08659375,"end":373.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.32221875000005,"end":381.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.22034375000004,"end":407.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.42284375,"end":451.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.41596875000005,"end":457.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.57534375,"end":459.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.68471875,"end":474.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.68721875000006,"end":478.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.28096875000006,"end":493.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.89471875000004,"end":539.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.13659375,"end":544.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.22846875,"end":551.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.67471875,"end":558.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.45034375,"end":556.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.12096875,"end":558.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.2053437500001,"end":558.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.27284375,"end":565.9678437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.418,"end":35.22,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們請秘書長。秘書長,來。好,有請周秘書長。秘書長,我想今天當然我們就不再追溯整個程序上的問題了。我想今天針對我們民進黨團的修法這一次召委排審的有五個案。"},{"start":36.541,"end":58.091,"text":"大概可分為四大部分,就是有關國情報告、人事統一權、質詢的規範,還有建制調查權的機制。首先我想先對有關質詢規範來就教我們的秘書長。我們看這次民進黨團提案陣列,立法院職權行使法第21條第四項。"},{"start":60.552,"end":73.989,"text":"就議事處依第一項登記名單擬定質詢順序及時間,立法委員依表定時間進行質詢,表定時間以藉經倡民三次不在場者,視同放棄質詢。"},{"start":77.334,"end":85.546,"text":"這部分我是想說這個可能要經主席暢明三次不在場,適同放棄質詢。建議可能你們做這個修正。因為我們原來的議事規則是說經主席,主席兩個字好像漏掉了。"},{"start":92.256,"end":115.744,"text":"當然我想這樣的一個修法我想表達的是說這部分也感謝民進黨肯定韓國瑜院長主持院會的公正無私並無沒收他們當時一直主張的說韓院長沒收這個委員的總質詢的權利我想藉由這個條文的一個修正我們看得出來"},{"start":116.704,"end":132.815,"text":"其實韓院長當時唱名三次委員不在場其實就是放棄質詢權所以才會把這種情形定得更清楚一點但是"},{"start":133.675,"end":147.422,"text":"把定在立法院的職權行使法二十一條第四項這個部分是不是妥當是不是有重複規定我要救教一下我們的秘書長秘書長我們看我們的這個"},{"start":151.293,"end":172.8,"text":"議事規則的第二十九條第一項規定施政方針及施政報告之質詢於每會期集會委員報告日起至開後七日內登記之。」所以我們的施政報告之後的總質詢它也是採登記制"},{"start":174.961,"end":196.263,"text":"那麼在二十九條也規定以登記發言之委員經主席暢明三次人不在場者視為放棄所以其實議事規則已經就以登記發言的委員如果經主席暢明三次人不在場你就視為放棄"},{"start":198.425,"end":219.29,"text":"所以我們在這個總諮詢也是用這樣子的一個議事規則的規範請問秘書長你同意嗎要這樣說明啦其實議事規則這部分是因為有提案討論表決所以在暢明三次表決是在討論中啦那我們施政報告的諮詢裡面我們是在每一次的"},{"start":220.89,"end":237.078,"text":"總實情一開始主席就會宣告所以當天的情況我們一直也對外有說明是因為主席已經宣告如果你不在場的話就是蔡明山就視為棄權所以這個就已經有用現行的在規範裡面就因為多數都是引用19條"},{"start":244.801,"end":265.887,"text":"我沒有特別說明,其實應該是在我們總執行的在進行期已經有做那個宣告。是,當然民主黨講的沒有錯,我們在這個總執行一開始院長也做這種宣告,當時我們因為今天我們要立這個法嘛,官民黨團要立這個法,所以我就要救教你,其實一是規則,因為院長在宣告也"},{"start":267.848,"end":273.491,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法二十一條第四項文修正草案案 案件及法制委員會第十五條之一條文修正草案 案件及法制委員會第十五條之一條文"},{"start":292,"end":313.47,"text":"會不會讓我們感覺到有這個畫蛇添足這樣的一個感覺那我也請民進黨的黨團你們來思考這樣的一個議題所以我就叫秘書長說這樣子議事規則有規定的東西在具立法院職權行使法來訂正相關的規範是不是這樣子的一個規定"},{"start":315.131,"end":342.701,"text":"因為你是議事規則的問題,地財職權行使法是不是讓我們感覺說這個體力有不符的一個感覺?所以可以補充一下嗎?因為這一個民進黨團提的這個案倒不是在這個地方啦。它是要固定時間啦。是在固定時間,所以當時黨團協商的時候,我想林委員也在吧。所以他說主席在針對這一個裡面是沒有共識吧。"},{"start":344.642,"end":370.708,"text":"所以才要求議事處去研議啦那研議現在大概我們議事處本身也有研議出來一個結果啦但是這裡面就是比較如果照這個條文來裡面就會有面臨到一個狀況就是說雖然有去登記但是如果這個委員他來不及來或是他提早結束那官員就一定要坐在那邊等這個會產生這個情況"},{"start":373.669,"end":375.15,"text":"議員呂玉玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":397.705,"end":399.006,"text":"委員呂玲等17人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":422.26,"end":448.097,"text":"民進黨團可以思考一下並沒有反對只是提出來大家來做一個理性的思辨另外說針對國會調查權的這一個部分我想民進黨是針對調查權他裏面提到45條第二項說前項調查權行使僅於憲法附與立法院職權有重大關聯之範圍內使得為之請問民主黨"},{"start":452.46,"end":477.907,"text":"何謂憲法賦予立法院之職權有重大關聯之範圍?」您解釋得出來嗎?我沒辦法做這個說明,因為調查權裡面,因為我們這個地方應該是從那個司法院的大法官會議去解釋3號跟5號來看的。是,是,是,我了解,我了解,他的也用相關的文字,其實我的意思"},{"start":479.315,"end":504.06,"text":"本來我們憲法63條就賦予我們的立法院立法院的職權那我們的立法院的職權行使法我們每一章也針對我們這個憲法所賦予我們的這個職權我們就職權行使法就分別的把它列定我們的一個權這個行使職權的範圍所以現在在第二項"},{"start":505.2,"end":525.06,"text":"談及你能行使調查權範圍僅憲法附以的職權有重大關聯的範圍內。所以這部分所謂重大關聯範圍由誰來定義?我是就叫秘書長,誰來定義?因為這是一個非常不確定的法律概念。"},{"start":525.62,"end":550.05,"text":"以後又會產生重大爭議。我說可以調查你說這個跟憲法所賦予立法院的職權沒有重大關聯又會爭吵不休各黨各派又會有自己的意見所以這樣的一個立法把不確定的法律概念定在我們的立法院的職權行使法四十五條第二項正列上去您認為妥當嗎?"},{"start":551.651,"end":552.913,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},{"id":"151433","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151433","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445cab2943b409e6827cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94c85d994a9850a63d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"11:42:32 - 11:50:45","影片長度":"00:08:13","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":493,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:50:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:42:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":581,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時42分）好，請僑委會徐佳青委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["邱委員志偉：委員長！"],["徐委員長佳青：邱委員你好。"],["邱委員志偉：你好。今天的主題是如何爭取僑界認同、支持相關的具體做法，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你提出6項具體的做法，我們一項一項來做討論。「快速傳播正面新聞，行銷臺灣優質形象」：何謂臺灣優質形象？我個人認為，第一個，你要讓全世界知道臺灣是一個友善、安全的幸福國度，沒有錯嘛？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：第二個，你要讓全世界所有的國家、所有的人都知道，臺灣是民主自由的模範國，是不是？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：同意喔？第三個，臺灣是半導體產業的核心國，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，確實。"],["邱委員志偉：半導體，很多人說「the Taiwan corrupt, the world stops」，你懂我的意思嗎？臺灣倒了，世界就停了。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：代表說半導體這個產業，臺灣具有核心關鍵的地位。"],["徐委員長佳青：食衣住行育樂樣樣都要chips。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你要去傳播正面形象，要有具體的slogan，或者具體的內涵。我們是民主自由模範國、我們是安全又友善的幸福國、我們是產業界經濟在半導體的核心國，這樣子才能知道臺灣的優質形象在哪裡，而不是很空泛地。你要通令所有駐外管處的僑務組，你行銷的時候，你就要行銷這些具體的內容！委員長，您同意嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我很同意。跟委員報告，我們都定期針對國際的評比，我們會廣泛蒐集訊息。一旦有公布評比報告的時候，我們就馬上會去做圖卡，然後就會把它傳到我們所有的社群通路，以及我們的電子報。"],["邱委員志偉：對啊！我講這3點，你可以認同，我想在場所有人都可以認同，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：國際社會也都可以同意嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：來臺灣，第一個當然臺灣人友善，臺灣很安全，對不對？治安又很好。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。但是我們政府就是說，我們還是用客觀的資料，所以一般來說，我們都會用國際評比，那這個是客觀的……"],["邱委員志偉：那當然是相輔相成，但是我們要對外行銷我們自己臺灣的優點在哪裡，你要很清楚臺灣的優點在哪裡、競爭強項在哪裡、撼動世界心的關鍵因素是什麼，這樣子大家才能感同身受：「啊！」進而他有，第一個，認同臺灣；第二個，想要來臺灣，看看是不是一個自由民主的模範國、是不是安全又友善的國，對不對？看看半導體產業的發展。","第二個，「善用僑社的網絡，積極為臺發聲」：僑社要去串聯，代表處的僑務人力要增加。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你看，你現在在越南有代表處，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你這次沒辦法去參加世界臺商會，是政治因素，政治因素就中國因素嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：那當然，用僑界的、用僑團的力量，可以給當地國更多的壓力嘛！也許他們的做法更彈性嘛！因為我們在那邊投資，當然為他們國家帶來經濟上的利益，也沒有錯嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你要善用僑團（社）的力量，去協助政府。遇到相關的阻撓或者刁難，或者中國的不友善因素的時候，我們透過僑社的力量去解決、去協助。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：那除了越南之外，在東協國家有哪些你會覺得被中國的因素影響最大，讓你會變成入境困難的？除了越南之外，還有哪些國家？"],["徐委員長佳青：因為越南是共產體制國家，所以相對是困難啦！其他有軍政府的國家，也會相對不是那麼穩定……"],["邱委員志偉：柬埔寨？柬埔寨你有去過啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：但是我很高興，去年我有去了柬埔寨，我有拿到正式簽證。"],["邱委員志偉：所以並不是完全不可能啊！對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。所以這幾年我們都有在觀察、突破，我們也……"],["邱委員志偉：緬甸呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：緬甸也是我今年想要尋求突破的地方。"],["邱委員志偉：就是要有目標，這不是不可能，是你有心，任何事情都可能成功，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["邱委員志偉：俄羅斯呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：俄羅斯可能近年來，我們有整個國際趨勢的因素影響，所以……"],["邱委員志偉：我們也有駐處在那邊，我們有……"],["徐委員長佳青：駐處已經撤了。"],["邱委員志偉：我們駐處已經撤了？"],["徐委員長佳青：沒有！沒有！沒有！我說錯了，那個是烏克蘭的，烏克蘭的外貿協會撤而已，莫斯科的還在。"],["邱委員志偉：我知道啦！有僑委會嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：沒有僑委會在俄羅斯，沒有。"],["邱委員志偉：有沒有臺商？"],["徐委員長佳青：有臺商，但是近年來因為國際局勢的關係，臺商也暫時都遠避。"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，我了解。所以就是越困難，你就要去突破。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：臺灣在國際的處境是需要各部會，不管是經濟部、外交部、僑委會，大家通力合作，加上僑團的力量。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以我們代表處僑務組的人力要增加，在外作戰的能量才能增加。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，臺灣的軟實力，你這邊提到的主要是華語文學習中心，主要是在美國跟歐洲。除了華語之外，你應該結合文化部，包括藝術、包括文化；結合教育部，除了華語文教學之外，還有體育，這個都是臺灣軟實力啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：所以臺灣的三太子、布袋戲，這些都是軟性的實力啊！而不是……"],["徐委員長佳青：這個在海外很受歡迎。"],["邱委員志偉：對，這個也不是你只有提到這個報告……"],["徐委員長佳青：我們都還有捐贈部分……如果僑團要申請，我們也會送他們三太子。"],["邱委員志偉：不是，你這邊提到主要是促進華語而已啦！所以我要提醒你，除了華語之外，還有豐富的軟實力。"],["徐委員長佳青：我們也有文化展訪團，也有文化種子老師的培訓，都有。"],["邱委員志偉：你要跨部會地合作，我剛剛說的文化部、教育部。"],["徐委員長佳青：會，我會加強來跟文化部、教育部做溝通。"],["邱委員志偉：還有縣、市政府也很重要。"],["徐委員長佳青：包括連客委會、原委會我們也會。"],["邱委員志偉：包括縣、市政府也很重要。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：原民會，臺灣原住民的這些文化，客家文化也可以，臺灣有很多客家人，客委會……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["邱委員志偉：臺商經貿網絡：六大洲臺商會非常關鍵，臺商要有認同感，要支持政府、支持臺灣，當然大部分、絕大多數的臺商都支持政府、支持臺灣，沒有問題啦！但我們要多一點資源給他們，比如說你有多一點的僑務榮譽職，讓這些曾經當過臺商會會長的都是僑務的榮譽職，諮詢委員也好、促進委員也好。另外，你的僑務委員的名額我也覺得應該要適度增加，你也沒有增加多少預算，只是這個增加讓他們多參與感，我是希望……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，這個因為是我們在立法院必須要修法才能夠……"],["邱委員志偉：我有提案了，但是我都沒有在外交委員會。如果我來當召委，我一定優先排案。"],["徐委員長佳青：是，我有看到過去委員的提案。"],["邱委員志偉：我提了3屆了！如果有召委願意，希望有召委可以排啦！好啦！因為時間上的關係，作為一個4屆的委員，要遵守會議規則，要有會議的紀律，時間到了就應該要停止質詢。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝邱委員。"],["邱委員志偉：因為下一位還有人要質詢。"],["徐委員長佳青：好，感謝。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝鼓勵。"],["主席：好，謝謝邱委員。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請陳培瑜委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.505343750000002,"end":20.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.550968750000003,"end":21.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.53784375,"end":23.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.035343750000003,"end":26.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.676593750000002,"end":27.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.36846875,"end":31.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.24534375,"end":37.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.860343750000006,"end":42.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.24784375,"end":46.133468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.75784375,"end":50.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.78659375,"end":52.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.38971875,"end":54.267218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.53721875,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.55346875,"end":64.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.70846875000001,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.21034375,"end":67.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.52659375,"end":71.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.22659375,"end":73.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.26409375,"end":77.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.70659375000001,"end":78.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.92159375,"end":81.75659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.65096875,"end":90.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.82784375,"end":84.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.29534375,"end":92.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.43846875000001,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.87659375000001,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.34846875000001,"end":102.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.25534375000001,"end":107.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.64284375000001,"end":111.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.30034375000001,"end":115.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.16471875,"end":120.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.00784375,"end":123.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.83846875,"end":125.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.85096875,"end":126.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.91409375,"end":145.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.87346875,"end":155.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.83096875,"end":146.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.53846875000002,"end":155.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.78721875000002,"end":164.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.44846875000002,"end":178.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.43346875,"end":181.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.97721875000002,"end":185.26784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.53784375,"end":191.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.25409375,"end":203.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.33846875,"end":192.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.64471875,"end":212.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.55909375000002,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.47034375,"end":227.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.51159375,"end":218.56221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.14346875,"end":225.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.96159375000002,"end":248.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.96409375000002,"end":239.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.12284375000002,"end":250.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.50221875000003,"end":263.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.11221875,"end":265.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.31034375,"end":268.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.12846875,"end":270.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.84971875,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.47784375000003,"end":273.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.61221875,"end":284.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.17721875,"end":279.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.39159375,"end":284.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.16784375000003,"end":285.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.74159375,"end":285.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.79221875,"end":285.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.80909375000005,"end":285.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.61909375,"end":293.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.62659375000004,"end":296.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.78659375,"end":296.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.10284375000003,"end":296.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.13659375000003,"end":296.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.20409375,"end":296.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.62596875,"end":301.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.46471875000003,"end":302.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.61659375,"end":304.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.89909375,"end":305.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.34596875,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.08409375,"end":308.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.18096875000003,"end":315.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.04096875000005,"end":316.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.48784375,"end":320.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.85846875000004,"end":336.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.60409375,"end":328.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.18096875000003,"end":336.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.32846875,"end":340.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.64034375,"end":339.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.39971875000003,"end":343.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.80846875000003,"end":350.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.11971875,"end":361.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.71284375000005,"end":363.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.21471875000003,"end":363.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.23159375,"end":364.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.02471875000003,"end":366.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.52221875000004,"end":367.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.00284375,"end":372.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.20909375,"end":373.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.12034375,"end":375.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.19159375000004,"end":381.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.20846875,"end":376.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.39784375000005,"end":389.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.29159375,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.49346875000003,"end":394.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.78784375000004,"end":398.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.66096875000005,"end":397.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.73659375000005,"end":401.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.79096875000005,"end":402.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.71909375,"end":405.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.91721875,"end":406.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.72284375000004,"end":406.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.21221875000003,"end":412.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.34284375000004,"end":407.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.14846875,"end":410.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.93721875,"end":411.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.45596875,"end":412.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.47284375000004,"end":413.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.48971875,"end":413.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.90721875,"end":415.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.21909375,"end":444.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.83909375,"end":454.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.10346875000005,"end":459.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.68096875000003,"end":464.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.90346875,"end":467.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.02971875000003,"end":468.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.62846875,"end":470.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.16846875000005,"end":471.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.46346875,"end":475.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.97346875000005,"end":478.04909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.77471875000003,"end":482.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.01034375,"end":489.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.92909375000005,"end":491.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.77284375000005,"end":491.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.58284375000005,"end":492.96659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.899,"end":18.165,"text":"邱志偉委員"},{"start":26.195,"end":52.126,"text":"委員長邱委員你好你好今天的主題是如何爭取僑界認同支持相關的具體做法你提出六項具體的做法我們一項一項來做討論快速傳播正面新聞行銷台灣優質形象何謂台灣優質形象我個人認為第一個你要讓這個全世界知道台灣是一個友善安全"},{"start":53.387,"end":57.05,"text":"臺灣是半導體產業的核心國是 確實 半導體 這個很多人說臺灣corrupt the world stop 你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":82.991,"end":111.239,"text":"臺灣做了世界的天堂代表說半導體這個產業臺灣具有核心關鍵地位所以你要去傳播正面形象要有具體的這個具體的這個slogan或者具體的內涵我們是民主自由模範國我們是這個安全又友善的這個幸福國我們是產業界經濟在半導體的核心國"},{"start":112.653,"end":122.031,"text":"這樣子才能知道台灣的優質形象在哪裡而不是很空泛的你要通令所有駐外管處的僑務組你行銷的時候就要行銷這些具體的內容"},{"start":124.875,"end":129.976,"text":"委員長您同意嗎?我很同意跟委員報告我們都定期針對國際的評比我們會廣泛收集訊息然後一旦有公佈評比報告的時候我們就馬上會去做圖卡然後就會把它傳到我們所有的社群通路以及我們的電子報我講這三點你也可以認同我想在場所有人都可以認同對不對主席社委都可以同意嘛是的"},{"start":151.361,"end":171.986,"text":"來台灣第一個台灣的友善台灣的都很安全對不對自然又好是那但是我們政府就是說我們還是用客觀的資料所以我們一般來說我們都會用國際評比那這個是客觀的那個相輔相成是但是我們要對外行銷我們自己台灣的優點在哪裡你要很清楚台灣的優點在哪裡競爭強項在哪裡是撼動世界新的這個這個這個關鍵的因素是什麼"},{"start":178.527,"end":179.087,"text":"是。是。"},{"start":203.677,"end":220.691,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":220.771,"end":220.811,"text":"邱志偉"},{"start":240.385,"end":250.598,"text":"除了越南之外在東西的國家有哪些你會覺得會被中國的因素影響最大讓你會變成入境困難的還有除了越南之外還有哪些國家"},{"start":252.231,"end":269.284,"text":"因為越南是共產體制國家所以相對是困難那其他有軍政府的國家也會相對不是那麼穩定但是我很高興去年我有去了柬埔寨我有拿到正式簽證所以這幾年我們都有在觀察那個突破緬甸也是我今年想要尋求突破的地方"},{"start":278.451,"end":279.892,"text":"末斯哥的還在我知道了有僑委會"},{"start":306.417,"end":328.572,"text":"沒有僑委會在俄羅斯有台商但是近年因為這個國際局勢的關係台商也暫時都遠避所以就是你覺得越困難你就要去突破是那台灣這個在國際處境是需要各部會不管是經濟部外交部僑委會大家的同力合作加上僑團的力量是"},{"start":329.252,"end":329.592,"text":"主要是在美國跟歐洲"},{"start":350.248,"end":367.177,"text":"那除了華語之外你應該結合文化部包括藝術包括文化那結合這個教育部除了華語文教學之外還有這個體育這個都是台灣人的實力啊是的所以台灣的這個山派"},{"start":369.039,"end":372.48,"text":"文化展訪團也有這個文化種子的老師的這些培訓都有你要跨部會的合作我剛剛說的文化部教育部"},{"start":398.729,"end":399.87,"text":"臺商這個經貿網絡臺商這個六大洲臺商非常關鍵臺商要有認同感"},{"start":423.422,"end":423.742,"text":"邱志偉議員"},{"start":444.95,"end":445.05,"text":"邱志偉"},{"start":472.526,"end":484.739,"text":"有朝委願意,希望有朝委可以排啦好啦,因為時間上的關係,這個作為一個第4屆委員要遵守會議規則,要這個會議的這個紀律,時間到了就應該要停止質詢謝謝邱委員,好,感謝"}]}},{"id":"151432","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151432","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445e6692ed9b84f74d157f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c9444fa94be23543b065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:45:05 - 11:50:59","影片長度":"00:05:54","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":354,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:50:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:45:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":626,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時45分）謝謝主席，請教育部政次，謝謝。"],["主席：請次長，質詢時間為4分鐘，謝謝。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：次長，今天早上也有委員提到體育署升格的問題，有人嫌慢、有人希望你們能加速腳步，雖然只剩下一個多月的時間，你認為可不可行？"],["劉次長孟奇：如果先行研議的話，我們的體育署就先行，到時候可能就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們不要隨便聽啦！我告訴你，國民黨每個人講的都不一樣，重大政策在做的時候，有的在院會質詢時告訴你，陳建仁現在是看守階段，重大政策不能亂做！在委員會又告訴你，不然這段時間你們要幹什麼？我們要讓體育署升格，本席表達贊同，而且大家都很期待、也倡議了那麼久，但是涉及組織的改造及程序一定要審慎。倉促的去做升格，如果組織及文化思維沒有改變，沒有什麼重大的意義，本席是這樣想啦！我也不認為你們在一個月的時間能將這個案子弄得出來，涉及到整個行政院的決策、有幾個部會，組織法都規定得很清楚。倒是我要來請教署長，二週前4月3日委員會請署長來做專報的時候，包括本席在內的許多委員都希望趕快啟動團體協約的草擬，當天也簡單的與署長針對勞動法進行意見交換。很多委員提出要體育署在半年內草擬一份公版給各協會，嚴格來講，本席認為團體協約未必正確啦！在團體協約第二條明確的規定，本法所稱的團體協約是指雇主或有法人資格的雇主團體，按照工會法或成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約，而協會與工會不是屬於法人資格的雇主團體。從實務面來看，籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的會員，而會員本身就有一些權利義務存在，尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的參與。這個部分與主流國家，包括歐洲，其實是一致的，但是，如果要與協會簽署團體協約的話，又會違反了團體協約法。很多人就會有疑問，為什麼棒球可以？我的意思是棒球團體協約的簽約主體是職棒聯盟與球員工會，職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主，棒協與職棒聯盟又沒有所謂會員的關係，而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議，才會有後續的組訓賽由職棒負責，以及與國際棒總溝通交流的是棒協，是不是這樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：現在要解決籃球的部分，國家隊的組訓賽是由籃球協會負責，但協會本身又沒辦法與球員工會簽署團體協約，你走棒球模式的話，現在國內有3個聯盟，意見又很難統合，所以本席與一些勞動法的專家進行過意見交流，在此提供一個新的概念給體育署，署長，回去再找各協會來處理。既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙，我們就換個模式，由體育署主動邀集籃協與國內的各聯盟、工會討論，簽署一個框架或協定，無論是意向書或什麼名字都好，但這個框架其實就是一個團體協約的內容，把所有的權利義務都規範在內，包括出場費及保險都寫在裡面。之後球員參加國家隊、球員接受徵召前都與籃協簽好參賽協議，而參賽協議中所有國家隊的權利義務都走這樣的框架，一來可以解決團體協議的限制事項、二來可以解決協會與各聯盟之間的問題。請教署長，你認為這樣可行嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，你講的沒有錯，我覺得就是以一個國家隊的框架，按照委員剛剛的建議進行，事實上，我們已經要求籃協明天提出一個初步的版本，希望在月底之前能有一個明確的解決……"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣不是只剩下幾天而已！上次你告訴我要半年，我要求你一個月，但是照你現在的講法，這個月底就出來囉！"],["鄭署長世忠：不是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我給你拍手囉！"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們是說在這段時間請它盡快坐下來談，所以要有一個初步的版本出來。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我問的也是柯志恩召委曾經關心的事情啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：是，但這個過程還是需要時間談判，只是……"],["莊委員瑞雄：需要多久？你說就好，多久？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們希望半年內一定要……"],["莊委員瑞雄：不要啦！你每次都說要半年，一個月啦！我們這次弄一下，好嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這是牽涉到雙方能不能負擔，我們已經主動要求期程了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：盡快一個月達成，好不好？好的意見真的要去做，大家都很關心，好不好？"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，謝謝主席。"],["鄭署長世忠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我多給你30秒了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我替你問的，你還講這樣。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員。","接下來請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.11909375,"end":14.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.19784375,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.960968750000003,"end":32.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.025968750000004,"end":32.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.58284375,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.61659375,"end":33.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.64159375,"end":44.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.69909375,"end":44.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.64409375,"end":45.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.66096875,"end":54.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.02659375,"end":56.039093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.66346875,"end":62.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.16034375,"end":64.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.42159375,"end":86.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.86971875,"end":111.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.42284375000001,"end":111.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.69284375000001,"end":179.37846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.68346875,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.69909375,"end":206.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.17596875,"end":266.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.09471875,"end":286.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.46721875000003,"end":301.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.62096875000003,"end":309.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.16034375000004,"end":316.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.50909375000003,"end":317.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.85471875,"end":325.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.87159375000005,"end":319.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.30971875,"end":323.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.97159375,"end":327.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.51971875000004,"end":328.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.53659375,"end":329.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.60409375,"end":329.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.26221875000005,"end":329.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.97096875,"end":331.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.08909375,"end":330.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.18159375000005,"end":333.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.97034375000004,"end":335.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.28221875,"end":346.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.70721875000004,"end":343.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.61409375,"end":346.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.32284375,"end":350.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.97221875,"end":349.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.72284375000004,"end":352.97159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.151,"end":3.592,"text":"謝謝主席,我邀請教育部政次來,政次謝謝"},{"start":17.001,"end":43.767,"text":"委員長我看今天早上有委員提到說我們整個體育署升格的一個問題有人嫌慢有人會覺得說希望你們的加速角度雖然只剩下一個多月的時間裡面你認為可不可行如果先行研議的話那我們體育署就來先行因為到時候我們可能也就是讓接下來可以有一個參考點你不要亂聽我告訴你"},{"start":46.057,"end":52.259,"text":"國民黨員每次說話都不一樣啦。重大政策在做的時候,委員會在質詢應該說:「哎喲,陳建仁,重大政策你現在是cancel了,你現在不能亂做了。」然後在委員會裡面跟你講說:「蛤?不然這段時間你們要幹什麼?」我們要的,體育署來升格,"},{"start":65.492,"end":68.654,"text":"本席表達贊同但是這種升格如果這個升格大家在期待倡議那麼久但對整個組織的改造跟程序跟審慎你倡促的去做一個升格那你如果組織跟文化思維沒有改變"},{"start":86.926,"end":99.909,"text":"沒有什麼重大的一個意義啦本席是這樣想啦我也不認為一個月時間你們這個案子會弄得出來啦涉及到整個行政院的一個決策啦有幾個部會在組織法裡面規定得很清楚啦倒是我要來請教就是說請教署長好了 署長好了這兩週以前4月3號委員會請署長來做中報的時候啊有很多委員包括本席啊說趕快啟動這個團體協約的一個草擬啊"},{"start":111.752,"end":116.494,"text":"那當天也跟署長很簡單的去針對勞動法的意見去做一個交換。那我想就是說,很多委員提出要提訴在半年內去炒你一份公版給各協會。嚴格來講,團體協會在本席的看法,這個未必正確啦。未必正確啦。"},{"start":133.402,"end":136.024,"text":"因為在團體協會的中第二條裡面很明確的規定本法所稱的團體協會是指僱主或者有法人資格的僱主團體按照工會法或者成立的工會以約定勞動關係以及相關事項為目的所簽訂的書面契約而協會跟工會不是屬於法人資格的僱主的一個團體"},{"start":155.16,"end":171.528,"text":"從實務面來看的話籃球現在在各個聯盟都是屬於籃協的一個會員它會員本身就有一些權利義務存在尤其是大家所在意的國家隊的一個參與這個部分其實跟主流的國家包括歐洲是一致的但是如果說要跟協會簽署團體協約的話你又會去違反這個整個團體協約法"},{"start":175.37,"end":182.918,"text":"那你很多人就會來有疑問啊那為什麼棒球可以那我的意思就是說棒球團體協約的簽約的主體是職棒聯盟跟職員球員工會那職棒聯盟屬於廣義的雇主"},{"start":191.027,"end":205.382,"text":"那你棒協跟職棒聯盟又沒有所謂的一個會員的一個關係而是兩邊另有簽署一份合作協議才會有後續的主訓賽由職棒負責跟國際棒種溝通交流是棒協"},{"start":206.323,"end":216.748,"text":"是不是這樣?是!所以現在要解決籃球的部分國家隊的主訓賽現在協會來負責但協會本身又沒有辦法去跟球員公會簽署團體協約你去走棒球的模式的話現在國內也有三個聯盟"},{"start":222.41,"end":236.981,"text":"議件很難統合所以本市也有跟一些勞動法的專家來進行議件的一個交流所以我在這邊提供一個新的概念給我們體育署這邊這也是書長你這給我大家都有意見交流過回去再找各協會來做一個處理既然籃球在團體協約上碰到阻礙那我們就換個模式體育署去主動邀集籃協跟國內的各聯盟"},{"start":250.191,"end":266.292,"text":"公會我們來討論簽書一個框架或者叫做協定然後意向書等什麼名字都好啦但這個框架其實在裡面是一個團體學的內容把所有的權利義務都要規範到裡面甚至從出場費保險都寫在裡面那之後"},{"start":267.253,"end":284.811,"text":"求員參加國家隊、求員接受徵召前都跟藍協來簽好參賽的一個協議而參賽協議中所有的國家隊的權利義務都准這樣的一個框架一來可以解決團體協議裡面的限制事項二來可以解決協約跟各聯盟之間的一個問題所以請教署長你認為這樣可行嗎?"},{"start":286.773,"end":288.054,"text":"委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:"},{"start":303.268,"end":304.769,"text":"委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案 案。 »:"},{"start":328.644,"end":330.365,"text":"委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案。 »:"}]}},{"id":"151431","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151431","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445abe709ecfb2a2cb4f81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94eef6df7d42f6b4155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:31:35 - 11:42:54","影片長度":"00:11:19","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":679,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:42:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:31:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":343,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時31分）謝謝主席，也謝謝我們好同事林思銘林委員。有請立法院周秘書長。"],["主席：請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長好。有幾個關於議事的部分來就教，你也算是大家尊重的「老先覺」。"],["周秘書長萬來：哪裡。"],["莊委員瑞雄：但是我問你，你要回答我，你不要像上次那樣叫我自己看，我跟你說完之後，網路上說我好像流氓，說我在羞辱你，這樣怎麼對？"],["周秘書長萬來：抱歉、抱歉。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我那天有羞辱你嗎？沒有吧！"],["周秘書長萬來：沒有、沒有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啊！我也是學法律的，我也當律師，被人家說成流氓，聽了「kimoji」實在很差，你知道嗎？但是我要來就教秘書長，在立法院整個議事規則裡面，你認為有沒有什麼叫異議權？"],["周秘書長萬來：你講的異議權，大概是保留院會發言的時候，比如說在委員會裡面，他對於審查結果有意見的話，有異議就保留院會發言，法條裡面大概有這個規範在那個地方。"],["莊委員瑞雄：其實在立法院職權行使法第六十八條第三項裡面，它有講各委員會在審查議案，也不用院會啦！遇到有爭議的時候，主席就可以裁決來進行協商，這其實也是廣泛地在講異議權，說得通，對不對？我也不要讓你太為難，禮拜一本委員會在審查立法院職權行使法的時候，你也在現場，秘書長你可不可以認同，當時是不是屬於各委員會審查議案碰到爭議？那天的情形是不是叫做遇到爭議？"],["周秘書長萬來：這個我未便發言，因為委員會的審查由委員會直接處理，我大概是院會的幕僚啦！"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，我不要害你被國民黨訐譙。吵到那種程度了，當然就是爭議，但是爭議的時候怎麼樣去解決，其實我們議事規範裡面都講得非常清楚啦！譬如說那個時候主席裁決所有的議案都保留送朝野協商，我要來請教你的是，在我們立法院職權行使法所做的裁決的這種協商，主席裁決送協商是送出委員會去協商，還是在委員會裡面來協商？"],["周秘書長萬來：應該要這樣說，剛才莊委員所提的第六十八條第三項，你看在第三項裡面有另外一個規定，就是在委員會中啦！"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：那另外一個狀況，當時在設計的時候，在第4屆第6會期當時交下來我研究設計的時候，因為我本身當時的考量是委員會中心，院會的黨團協商是輔助性的，那是一個接軌，所以要協商的話，一開始一定是委員會的召集委員去召集協商。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那當然，謝謝。這就是有專業的人，所以我也不要挖坑給你跳。大家都很清楚嘛！協商當然就是在委員會，主席比如說鍾佳濱委員在主持的時候，大家有意見，當然就是要協商啊！"],["周秘書長萬來：我要補充，不是，協商是兩種，一個是在委員會開會當中的協商，那是委員會的主席……"],["莊委員瑞雄：那當然。"],["周秘書長萬來：如果這個案已經審查完竣，送到院會的時候需要協商，那個時候是委員會的召集委員去協商。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛！所以我們委員會當場碰到有爭議的時候，本來就可以這樣來做協商。那你認為當天的主席這樣處理好不好？"],["周秘書長萬來：我未便表示意見。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你不好意思講，我跟你說，以你的個性，如果應該誇獎你早就誇獎了，你不便表示意見，我也不要為難你，免得等一下害你又被國民黨訐譙。但是很怪的就是說，司法及法制委員會我覺得最不應該，在立法院不要創下這種惡例，我今天要特別提醒，我一早就跑3個委員會，我們有提案，我們一定要做提案說明給人家聽，說我們為什麼要提案嘛！提案說明完之後，我們在做逐條審查的時候，法令到底是什麼，大家來表達意見嘛！你贊成或是反對，說不定我贊成的人聽到你反對的理由，覺得你也有道理，看要怎麼加進來，怎麼來做修正。所以法案如果在委員會裡面，我們一直在強調委員會中心主義，如果審到最後連提案說明也不讓人說明，逐條也全部不要，碰到有爭議也不在委員會裡面做協商，這個是非常不合理的。","我來套一個最近很紅的電影，我希望以後逐條審查在表達意見的時候，我不用先在家裡擲筊，向關聖帝君擲9個聖筊，擲筊之後說我今天可以來做逐條討論；秘書長可能比較沒有在看這個，這個現在在網路上很紅。我要請教秘書長，像我們碰到這種狀況，過去民進黨在審查，我相信政黨之間會產生最大爭議的一個法案就是不當黨產條例，你去看當時審查的照片，右邊第一個是江啟臣，再來是李彥秀、陳超明、王育敏，甚至於前時代力量的委員黃國昌，大家也都是在討論，討論到後來沒有共識以後，才去動用表決哦！但要不要協商，在表決之後，輸贏大家要甘願，照議事程序來嘛！社會自有公斷，但是在禮拜一的時候，大家都沒有機會講，這個就非常非常可惜了。","接下來要請教，我也請法務部陳次長上來一下，借重你們兩位「老先覺」。這個國會調查權，今天在野黨的委員一直在提說民進黨2016年有，是啊！有啊！連我都跟顧立雄共同提案，我也贊成要有國會調查權，這確實是輔助立法委員行使職權，監督行政部門一個很好的工具嘛！行政部門本來就要接受立法院的監督，但是當初真的就是沒有共識，所以只通過了一些國會改革的法案，比如說直播，現在看起來覺得那已經是很簡單的事情了，但是為什麼說國會要改革？是我們要被改革，我們要去改進啊！如果說又碰到爭議的話，我也認為很麻煩，像現在這麼多法案裡面，我從秘書長的書面報告裡面也看到了，幾乎每一個事項你都講由立法院自己來做決定就好，就只有4個字「國會自主」嘛！但是國會自主它的射程到底有多遠？範圍到哪裡？強制手段要到什麼地步？甚至於這個客體到底是只有行政部門，還是包括老百姓？這個當然就要討論啊！秘書長，難道不是這樣嗎？這種事情哪有不用討論的，你認為這不用討論嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為你們要合議。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啊！就是說大家要合議，什麼叫合議？就是要討論嘛！沒有討論，哪來的合議呢？我必須要指出來的是，我一直非常擔心，2016年的法案當初就是因為沒有共識，也被國民黨批評為擴權，那現在國民黨好像撿到寶貝一樣，過去民進黨有這樣的主張，就全部都寫進去，這個叫進步哦？我沒有意見！但是我再次提醒，為什麼請次長上來？像翁曉玲委員她留學德國，她算是一個法學素養非常豐厚的委員，但是我為什麼要在這邊提醒？你看當年德國在發動國會調查權的時候，德國在阿富汗駐軍一、二十萬，當年從阿富汗撤軍的時候，國會發動調查權要去調查第一個，當年撤軍的程序到底有沒有完備，有沒有保護到他們的阿兵哥？第二個，調查他們的阿兵哥在撤退的時候，到底有沒有去搶阿富汗那些百姓，有沒有碰那些女人？德國他們國會發動調查權，可是他們國會調查權就跟我們現在的憲法法庭解釋一樣，它很重要地揭示出什麼？就是跟你講說要發動調查權，國會發動調查權幾乎都是基於政爭，以政治的鬥爭為目的，可是如果涉及人民的話，你必須要有公益性，你如果沒有公益性，想調查就調查，到時候你說虛偽陳述就判3年，立法院沒有這麼大的權限啦！","憲法第二十三條在講比例原則，你們兩個都是大「仙」的，對不對？我們創設一個藐視國會，就變成是創設憲法第二十三條的一個例外的規定，我擔心的是這個啊！從德國留學回來的人，你說要不要救濟？當然要有救濟，甚至於要不要仿效德國他們所規定的國會調查權裡面，連證人、人民被你找到國會裡面來，他都會有像我們刑事訴訟法裡面規定的拒絕證言權哦！哪些需不需要、有需要沒需要？如果今天我是法官，我審一個案子，你們要傳喚證人的話，我會跟你說次長，你傳那個證人沒有必要，我就裁定把你駁回掉，可是現在立法院連這些相關的配套都沒有，這是我很擔心的地方。強制的手段到底會不會過高？甚至於那個客體到底要不要加到人民？請次長簡單回應一下。"],["主席：次長請簡單回應，因為時間的關係。"],["陳次長明堂：基本上，縱然是立法，委員也要注意到「比例原則」這4個字啦！在比例原則下，相關的作為也應該注意到正當程序前端的保障，才能做後端的強制，這個要配套。所以剛才秘書長有提到合議，合議大家要說好，對於比例原則、合乎正當程序、後面的強制是不是過當等等的情況，要來做深切的思考。"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長，你認為德國憲法法庭他們揭示出來的，他們發動國會調查權要具備公益性才可以，你贊不贊同？"],["周秘書長萬來：我想委員會去考量，相關的一些原則在討論的過程委員當然會考量。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，謝謝秘書長，謝謝次長。","接下來有請林委員思銘詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.61284375,"end":5.886593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.32534375,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.88909375,"end":17.817218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.67784375,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.17471875,"end":38.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.929718750000003,"end":26.997218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.03096875,"end":27.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.69596875,"end":40.885343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.70846875,"end":41.610968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.391593750000006,"end":42.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.42096875,"end":43.095968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.28159375,"end":58.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.540343750000005,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.20034375,"end":91.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.34159375,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.22721875,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.60096875,"end":105.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.47409375000001,"end":107.49096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.49096875000001,"end":107.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.29596875,"end":121.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.51409375,"end":126.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.21784375000001,"end":151.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.20971875,"end":157.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.57159375,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.03409375,"end":169.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.32096875000002,"end":192.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.80284375000002,"end":203.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.33659375000002,"end":205.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.17596875,"end":220.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.09471875000003,"end":213.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.03034375000001,"end":229.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.83471875,"end":242.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.10471875000002,"end":232.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.16596875000002,"end":248.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.90346875,"end":254.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.34971875000002,"end":286.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.65284375000005,"end":317.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.86721875,"end":322.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.13659375000003,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.03846875000005,"end":330.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.07221875000005,"end":334.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.89846875,"end":341.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.98596875000004,"end":353.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.25409375000004,"end":377.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.41909375,"end":385.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.11409375000005,"end":388.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.83096875,"end":391.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.10471875,"end":414.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.66659375,"end":418.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.53096875,"end":431.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.45721875000004,"end":432.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.97596875000005,"end":434.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.62971875000005,"end":436.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.77284375000005,"end":437.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.19034375,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.75909375000003,"end":455.23409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.48721875,"end":456.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.37721875000005,"end":458.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.09846875000005,"end":460.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.65096875,"end":484.76534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.32221875000005,"end":500.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.86409375000005,"end":507.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.91784375000003,"end":528.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.29846875,"end":541.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.1528437500001,"end":552.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.5478437500001,"end":560.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.1540937500001,"end":577.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.2865937500001,"end":588.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.10346875,"end":598.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.5659687500001,"end":600.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.30409375,"end":602.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.97471875,"end":604.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.4428437500001,"end":605.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.7084687500001,"end":607.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.6828437500001,"end":608.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.21846875,"end":611.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.5134687500001,"end":628.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.15221875,"end":653.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.55721875,"end":630.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.09346875,"end":660.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.04159375,"end":661.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.45471875,"end":674.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.28846875,"end":676.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.97159375,"end":679.21596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.105,"end":12.154,"text":"謝謝主席也謝謝我們好同事我們林士明林委員有請我們立法院我們周秘書長請周秘書長"},{"start":18.857,"end":32.054,"text":"委員長好,有幾個關於議事的部分來就教,你也算大家自己尊重的老選角,但是我問你要不要幫我引,你沒酒店,叫我自己看。"},{"start":33.696,"end":42.681,"text":"我跟您說過之後,人家就跟我說我怎麼落馬,說我跟您羞辱太多,我覺得有羞辱嗎?沒有沒有。是啊,我也有發論的,我也做律師王說落馬,聽到那些人的心情很開心。但是我要來救救秘書長就是說,就是說我們立法院裡面,整個議事規則裡面,你認為有沒有什麼叫意義權?"},{"start":62.768,"end":90.785,"text":"在議議前裏面大概保留院會發言的時候大概譬如說委員會裏面他對於這個審查結果有意見的話他就保留有意義就保留院會發言大概法條裏面大概有這個規範在哪個地方其實在我們立法院的職權行使法第68條第三項裏面他有去講各委員會在審查議案也不用院會啦有爭議的時候主席就可以裁決來進行協商啦"},{"start":91.525,"end":110.704,"text":"這其實也是在廣泛、也是在講意義權啦!會通嘛!對不對!你要看啦!我們拜他啦!我也不要讓你太為難啦!我們拜委員會來在審查立法院職權行使法的時候啊!你也在現場啦!那民主黨你可不可以認同當時是不是屬於各個委員會審查議案碰到那天這樣是不是叫作剛才的爭議?"},{"start":113.322,"end":121.188,"text":"因此我未變壞,因為委員會有審查,有委員會的直接處理,因為我大概是院會的幕僚啦。好啦,我不要害你,國民黨都在幹架啦。吵到那種程度了,當然就是爭議啦。當然就是爭議啦。但是爭議的時候,怎麼樣去解決啊?其實啊,我們議事規範裡面都講得非常清楚啦。你像比如說啊,"},{"start":137.341,"end":153.877,"text":"那十三個主席裁決所有的議案都保留送草也協商。我要來請教你了就是說在我們立法院職權行使法所做的裁決的這種協商是主席是裁決送協商還是上次委員會協商還是說協商是在委員會裡面來協商"},{"start":159.098,"end":179.436,"text":"應該要這樣說啦,因為這一個剛才專委所提的六十八條第三項你看在第三項裡面有另外的規定在委員會中啦那另外一個狀況當時在設計的時候在第四屆第六會期在當時交下來我研究設計的時候因為我本身有當時考量是"},{"start":180.177,"end":203.337,"text":"委員會中心,院會的黨團協商是輔助性的,是一個接軌,所以要協商的話,應該先開始一定是委員會的召集委員,去召集協商。所以這叫做有專業的人,所以我不要為困擾你跳,所以大家都很清楚嘛。那協商當然就是在委員會主席,譬如說宗嘉濱委員,那其他這邊在主持的時候,大家有意見嗎?"},{"start":204.618,"end":229.105,"text":"當然就是要協商啊。要我補充,協商有兩種。一個在委員會開會當中的協商,那是委員會的主席。那當然。那如果這個案已經審查完畢,送到委員會的時候需要協商,那個時候還是委員會的招集委員會是協商。是嘛。所以我們委員會當場裡面碰到有爭議的時候,本來就可以這個這個這樣來做協商。那你認為當天的主席這樣處理好不好?"},{"start":230.05,"end":232.171,"text":"我今天特別去提醒就是說我一早我就跑三個委員會"},{"start":255.407,"end":258.054,"text":"我們有提案,我們一定要提案說明,讓人聽嘛,說我們為什麼要提案嘛。"},{"start":260.547,"end":285.458,"text":"提案稍後,你再看,你如果說我們對法院在做諸條審查的時候法令到底是什麼,大家來表達意見嘛你贊成還是反對,不然你告訴我贊成的人聽聽你反對,覺得你的也有道理,看要怎麼加進來,還要怎麼做修正所以法案如果在委員會裡面,我們一直在強調委員會中心主義但如果審到最後,就是連提案說明"},{"start":286.798,"end":303.048,"text":"不容說明,主條兩種賣,碰到有爭議也不在委員會裡面做協商。這個是非常不合理的。最近,我來套一個最近很紅的一個電影,我希望議長在主條在審查的時候,表達意見的時候,我不用想大廚擲筊啦,跟官聖帝君擲架的時候擲筊,擲筊說我今天可以來做主條討論,你可能比較沒在看這個啦,但是現在網路上很紅。"},{"start":315.896,"end":335.126,"text":"所以我要請教秘書長就是說像我們碰到這種狀況碰到這樣的一個狀況在審查過去民進黨在審查我相信最大的爭議的最大的一個政黨之間會產生最大爭議的一個法案就是不當擔任條例你去看那時候在審的時候蔣其成、李彥秀、陳超明"},{"start":342.17,"end":366.642,"text":"王玉敏甚至於前時代力量的委員黃國昌。大家也是都討論啊,討論到最後你都沒有共識以後啊,那你才去動用表決,但要不要協商。包括了之後輸贏,這就大家感恩啦,叫議數定數來嘛,社會自有公斷啦。但是在禮拜一的時候啊,大家都沒有機會講,這個就非常非常可惜了。"},{"start":367.142,"end":390.185,"text":"那另外接下來要請教的就是說我也請我們法務部陳次長可以上來一下就中你們倆的老先覺這個國會調查權我相信今天在黨的委員一直在提說民進黨2016年有是啊有啊連我都跟顧立雄共同提案我也贊成要國會調查權"},{"start":392.783,"end":408.235,"text":"這確實是一個輔助立法委員行使職權監督行政部門的一個很好的一個工具嘛行政部門本來要接受立法院的一個監督但是呢當初就是真的就沒有共識所以只通過了一些國會改革的一個法案像比如說直播"},{"start":408.895,"end":410.436,"text":"二、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":431.645,"end":455.832,"text":"事項你都講 這都是立法院自己來做決定就好就只有四個事嘛 國會自主嘛但是這個國會自主 它的射程到底會有多遠範圍到哪裡 強制手段要到什麼地步甚至於這個課題 到底是只有行政部門還包括老百姓 這個就當然要討論啦你覺得是不是這樣 這麼多都不用討論的你去問這個不用討論嗎"},{"start":459.233,"end":463.895,"text":"因為你們要合議啊是啊就是說大家要合議什麼叫合議就是要討論嘛沒有討論哪來的合議呢我必須要指出來了就是說我一直非常擔心啦2016年的法案當初就是因為沒有共識也被國民黨批評為這個叫擴權那現在國民黨好像撿到法撿到寶貝一樣嘿過去你民進黨有這樣主定嗎全部都把他嚇死了"},{"start":485.582,"end":500.384,"text":"這個叫進步我沒有意見但是我再次提醒為什麼請次長上來就是說翁小玲翁委員他留學德國他算是一個法學素養非常豐厚的一個委員但是我為什麼要在這邊提醒呢"},{"start":501.185,"end":507.33,"text":"當年你看那個德國在發動國會調查權的時候德國他在阿富汗駐軍一又十萬當年在從阿富汗撤軍的時候國會發動調查權要去調查說當年在撤軍這個程序到底有沒有完備有沒有保護到他們的阿兵哥第二個就是說在調查他們的阿兵哥在撤退的時候到底有去跟人家搶搶到阿富汗那裡的被子有去把女兒被打到嗎"},{"start":529.366,"end":538.91,"text":"德國他們國會發動調查權可是他們國會調查權就跟我們現在的憲法法庭解釋一樣他很重要揭示出一個什麼就是跟你講說要發動調查權"},{"start":543.901,"end":552.753,"text":"國內發動調查委員幾乎都是基於政治的鬥爭為目的,可是呢,如果涉及到人民的話,你必須要有公義性。你若沒有公義性,三個要調查的就調查,到時你說虛偽的陳述就三當。"},{"start":562.216,"end":569.059,"text":"立法院沒有這麼大的權限啊。憲法23條在講比例原則嘛,你倆都大聲的嘛,對不對。我們在創設一個藐視國會,就變成創設憲法23條的一個例外的一個規定。我擔心的是這個啊。"},{"start":578.359,"end":597.918,"text":"於帝國回來、立法回來的人,你說要不要救濟?當然要有救濟!甚至於要不要仿效德國他們所規定的國會調查權裡面,連證人、連人民被你調查到、傳喚到、找到國會裡面來,他都有像我們刑訴訴訟法裡面的規定的拒絕證言權喔!"},{"start":599.62,"end":625.51,"text":"哪些需不需要?有需要沒需要?我如果今天是法官,一個案子我審,你們要傳喚證人的話,我會跟你說:「欸,次長,你傳那個證人沒有必要,我就裁定把你剝掉。」現在立法院連這些相關的配套都沒有,這是我很擔心的地方。強制的手段到底會不會過高?甚至於說你那個課題到底要不要加到人民?簡單請那個次長回應一下。"},{"start":628.351,"end":650.792,"text":"市長請簡單回應因為時間關係基本上呢重點是立法也要注意到比例原則這四個字啦齁那在比例原則下的話呢相關的作為也應該注意到正當程序前端的保障才能做後端的強制這樣的要配套所以剛才民進黨也提到說合意嘛合意大家要講得好就講那在比例原則合乎正當程序在後面強制的時候是不是過檔"},{"start":651.753,"end":676.005,"text":"等等這些來做深切示範。那秘書長你認為那個人家德國憲法法庭他們揭示出來的他們要發動國會調整要具備公益性才可以,你認不認同?國會委員會去考量啦,這個相關的一些原則大概都委員會在討論的過程大概會考量。好謝謝,謝謝莊委員、謝謝秘書長、謝謝次長。接下來有請林委員。"}]}},{"id":"151430","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151430","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445393c15d8c5360ca957f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c94ba0ce5b3b925cb395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:38:19 - 11:44:24","影片長度":"00:06:05","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":365,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:44:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:38:19+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":613,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時38分）謝謝主席，請劉次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長好。最近我的選區在文化方面有一個很重要的話題，也就是關於建國啤酒廠改建的問題，你應該也知道北科大因為要爭取校地而引起非常非常大的爭議。教育部其實也說過，大概在五年之後，因為少子化的關係，可能有40所私校要退場。我們過去也看到一些公立大學合併私立大學，或者是公公合併，以此解決少子化的問題，其實也都得到一個比較好的處理結果，共創雙贏，是不是？次長，同不同意？譬如台科大去併華夏，對不對？又譬如高雄科大是三校合併，所以未來的趨勢是可能有很多私校必須要退場，但是大家可能又覺得很可惜，而且那些校舍也會被閒置，如果有一個體質比較好的公立學校去合併私校或者是公公合併，透過這樣的合併讓學校得以存續、讓學生能有比較好的學習環境。再者，過去所謂的廣設大學也是希望能夠促進整個地方的繁榮，對不對？把很多的教育資源帶到地方去，但是他們退場之後，感覺整個教育資源就會隨之退場，因此，像我剛才提的這兩個例子都是可以走的方向，次長，同不同意？"],["劉次長孟奇：同意。"],["王委員鴻薇：我再回過頭來講北科大的問題，北科大要增加它的校舍，它覺得它的校地不夠，這些我都予以尊重，但是，無論要增加校舍也好、增加校地也好，有很多的方式，說實在的，全臺灣不是只有臺北市、更不是只有臺北市的蛋黃區、更加不是只有一個全臺唯一的百年啤酒廠文化園區，為什麼你要撿來撿去，一定要找臺北市的蛋黃區，而且是一個百年啤酒廠的文化園區？北科大這次所謂的搶地或是增加校舍，最大的爭議是因為它的徵地使得百年啤酒廠的活古蹟被一分為二，很多文化人說這樣等於是把它切割，未來那邊做好的保存還能不能呈現一個百年啤酒廠的文化、一個文創園區，這個可能會因此而整個犧牲。因為要割給北科大之後，原來的綠地、原來的廣場、原來要呈現啤酒文化的創意園區，因此沒有了，只剩下原來的生產線、只剩下原來的這些建築物，非常非常可惜。","我們肯定北科大校友對臺灣產業的貢獻、我們也肯定北科大對教育的貢獻，但是北科大校友會非常強勢也非常會遊說，而且北科大校長非常執著，他只剩下一年多的任期，現在他一定要去做這個案子的徵地。在星期二的時候，內政部都審會已經將它整個暫緩，並將它退至專案小組，但是我認為這件事在社會上引起這麼大的爭議，教育部不應該像消失了一般，我們看不到教育部的角色在哪裡，任由北科大這樣去爭地，引起了這麼大的爭議，教育部好像也無所謂！當然我們知道原來是副院長、現在的鄭文燦副院長的指示，但是引起了這麼大的爭議，而且剛才我也講過，之前有很多很好的例子，北科大為什麼不可以做？它可以做！以北科大這樣的強勢，還是可以找一些可能即將退場的私校也好，或是一些招生不足的公立學校也好，與他們去做合併，共創雙贏，而不是製造出這麼大的爭議，讓我們的古蹟可能被分割、讓我們的古蹟可能因此而受損，所以我希望教育部能在這個爭議事件上有更積極的作為，可不可以？"],["劉次長孟奇：是，如委員所說，禮拜二內政部審議會已經要求這整個案子要明確處理剛剛委員有疑慮的地方，但是，第二個方向，台科大與華夏的確是我們認為比較好的方向，我們看看能不能協助往這個方向進行。"],["王委員鴻薇：確實是比較好的例子，可以朝那個方向去做，好不好？共創雙贏，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員、謝謝次長。","請鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","請陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員不在。","請張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員不在。","請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","請羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","請楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在。","接下來請莊瑞雄委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.21659375000000003,"end":1.8703437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.72096875,"end":13.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.547843750000002,"end":16.230968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.61909375,"end":17.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.32346875,"end":19.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.38596875,"end":24.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.195968750000002,"end":24.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.22971875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.59659375,"end":55.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.76909375,"end":58.384718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.587218750000005,"end":142.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.23346875,"end":81.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.30409375000002,"end":143.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.08034375,"end":143.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.04221875000002,"end":146.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.55221875,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.70159375000003,"end":335.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.69159375000004,"end":358.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.11909375000005,"end":357.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.93284375,"end":361.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.98284375000003,"end":364.96971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.273,"end":1.834,"text":"好,時間四分鐘,謝謝。好,那個謝謝主席,我請我們劉次長。好,次長。"},{"start":23.43,"end":40.947,"text":"委員長最近在我們選區市上在文化方面有一個很重要的話題就是有關建國啤酒廠改建的問題然後你應該也知道北科大因為要爭取校地其實引起非常非常大的爭議"},{"start":42.128,"end":53.659,"text":"其實我們教育部也說過大概在五年以後可能有40所的私校可能要退場因為少子化的關係我們過去也看到其實"},{"start":58.763,"end":84.702,"text":"有一些比如說公立大學去合併私立大學或者是公公合併然後去解決少子化的問題其實也都得到一個比較好的處理結果共創雙贏是不是?次長同不同意?比如說像台科大他去併華夏對不對?或者是過去這個高雄科大是三校合併"},{"start":85.783,"end":97.487,"text":"所以未來的趨勢也就是有很多的私校他可能要退場然後大家可能覺得又很可惜然後他的這個校舍又變閒置所以如果有一個體質比較好的公立學校他去合併私校或者是公共合併透過這樣合併讓學校得以存續"},{"start":111.391,"end":120.918,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等17人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等17"},{"start":135.029,"end":161.182,"text":"所以像我剛才提到這兩個例子都是我覺得是可以去走的方向次長同不同意?同意那我就回過頭來講北科大的問題北科大他要增加他的校舍他覺得他的校地不夠其實我尊重可是全台也就是你要去增加校舍也好增加校地也好有很多的方式"},{"start":162.182,"end":178.835,"text":"那麼全台灣說實在不是只有台北市更不是只有台北市的蛋黃區更加不是只有一個全台唯一的百年啤酒廠的文化園區所以你為什麼要撿來撿去撿來撿去一定要去找一個台北市台北市蛋黃區然後是一個百年啤酒廠的文化園區所以北科大這一次它的一個"},{"start":190.003,"end":203.851,"text":"所謂的搶地或者他要增加校舍其實他最大的一個爭議就是因為他的爭議使得百年皮球場的火股機被一分為二"},{"start":204.611,"end":205.091,"text":"因此而整個犧牲因為要割給北科大之後呢"},{"start":223.22,"end":247.018,"text":"原來的綠地、原來的廣場原來要所呈現的啤酒文化的創意園區因此而沒有了只剩下原來的生產線只剩下原來的這些建築物非常非常可惜所以在這個爭議裡面因為我們知道北科大的校友會我們肯定北科大校友對台灣產業的貢獻我們也肯定北科大對於教育的貢獻"},{"start":252.722,"end":275.357,"text":"可是北科大校委會因為他們非常強勢他們也非常會遊說然後北科大校長非常執著他只剩下一年多的任期了他現在一定要去做這樣的爭議那當然我們在星期二的時候整個內政部都審會現在暫緩他把他退到要專案小組但是我覺得在這件事情上在社會上引起這麼大的爭議"},{"start":278.999,"end":295.147,"text":"教育部不應該通通都是消失了我們看不到教育部的角色在哪裡好像任由北科大學這樣的爭議引起這麼大的爭議教育部也無所謂當然我們知道原來是副院長現在的鄭文燦副院長的指示"},{"start":296.488,"end":296.588,"text":"二、審查委員"},{"start":326.468,"end":334.956,"text":"而受損所以我覺得這一點我希望教育部能夠在這個事件爭議事件上能夠有更積極的作為可不可以"},{"start":335.791,"end":359.849,"text":"是,如委員所說那禮拜二的這個審議會內政部審議會也是要求就是這整個案要去要能夠明確的來處理剛剛委員有疑慮的地方但是第二個方向的確台科跟那個華夏是我們覺得比較好的方向我們來看看能不能來集體來協助這個方向好來協助好不好好謝謝共創雙贏謝謝好謝謝王宏輝委員謝謝次長接下來"}]}},{"id":"151429","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151429","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4450ff2edf37d7f312804d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94f6a0a69783eab37e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:31:27 - 11:44:04","影片長度":"00:12:37","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":757,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:44:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:31:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1079,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時31分）謝謝主席，麻煩請王美花部長跟台電總經理。"],["主席：我們請以上兩位。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席早上看到您針對桃園的跳電道歉，桃園在今天早上總共有四千多戶跳電，你剛剛扯的理由，其實不能算理由，雖然報載是龍潭這邊跳電，事實上今天早上北部地區也都有大雷雨，為什麼獨獨就只有龍潭？你也即將離開部長這個職務，有沒有算過你在部長任內道歉了幾次？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，我們講的都不叫「扯」啦，事實就是事實……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在問的問題是，有沒有算過部長任內道歉了幾次？"],["王部長美花：我沒有特別算，但是因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：有印象道歉過幾次？"],["王部長美花：沒有特別想這些事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：講過就忘記了？"],["王部長美花：也不是啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：犯了錯，道歉了，反正嘴皮子交換一下，講過就忘記了？"],["王部長美花：也不是，但是委員問我講幾次……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席幫你回憶一下，至少我們可以查到的就有3次，3次都跟什麼有關，記得嗎？"],["王部長美花：都是跟電有關。"],["洪委員孟楷：都跟電有關啦！2021年全臺大跳電，五天內兩次停電，經濟部長道歉；2022年3月3日全臺大停電，經濟部長道歉；今年龍潭、桃園連三天跳電，經濟部長又道歉。每次道歉都一定會講一句：不容許再發生這樣的錯誤了！不容許再讓國人沒有電可以用了！結果道歉完還是一樣，道歉完還是這樣子啊！"],["王部長美花：不一樣……"],["洪委員孟楷：還是一而再、再而三的道歉。"],["王部長美花：不是，不是，今天龍潭的部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：很廉價的道歉！"],["王部長美花：也不是，我們是很真誠的，讓居民花了比較長的時間……"],["洪委員孟楷：民眾感受不到！我不知道部長哪來的勇氣，可以在國會殿堂裡面說你的道歉是真誠的，我剛剛問你道歉過幾次，你不記得了，道歉理由你只記得說是跟電有關！之前在總質詢的時候，我就問過你了，你的勇氣到底是梁靜茹給你的，還是張震嶽給你的？"],["王部長美花：我覺得我們就是為國家認真來做事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：想請教部長，有人講4月15日經長還是台電高層緊急出手打電話給這一些國內的用電大戶，請他們降載或是啟動他們的一些備用電源，有沒有這樣的事情？"],["王部長美花：像這種臨時出狀況，非常緊急的時候，我們確實有……"],["洪委員孟楷：確實都有電話聯絡？"],["王部長美花：有電話聯繫。"],["洪委員孟楷：當初電話聯絡了多少家業者、廠商？"],["王部長美花：因為是台電這邊來做相關的聯絡。"],["洪委員孟楷：請總經理回答。"],["王總經理耀庭：這個部分，我們是針對用電比較大的用戶。"],["洪委員孟楷：聯絡了多少家廠商？"],["王總經理耀庭：這是請我們業務單位去聯絡，大概是十家左右，確實的數字我不知道，要再統計才知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為媒體報導有提到當天的備轉容量率最低的時候到2.8%，2.8%換算成瓩會是多少？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們大概還有八、九十萬瓩……"],["洪委員孟楷：2.8%大概還有八、九十萬，是不是？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席就取一個平均值85萬左右。台電有一個內規叫作台灣電力公司電源不足時期限制用電辦法執行及通報機制，有嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：該辦法提到，若少於90萬瓩的時候，要召開第一次的緊急會議，剛剛提到4月15日那天是低於90萬瓩，你們有沒有召開緊急會議？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，發生低於剛剛講到的八十多萬是到了晚上的6點16分……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，你們有沒有召開緊急會議？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們在前面都會召開會議，每天都會開會，只是會議的頻度跟它的那個層級……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席現在要問的是，你剛剛已經承認台電內部有電源不足時期限制用電辦法執行跟通報機制，裡面提到如果少於90萬瓩，要召開第一次的緊急會議，如果更急迫少於50萬瓩，要召開第二次的緊急會議，並即刻通報經濟部，經濟部也要成立緊急應變小組，對吧？"],["王總經理耀庭：是，沒有錯，但是跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席現在請教，4月15日那天有沒有依照相關的規定召開緊急會議？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們是在當天早上8點10分跟12點召開會議，但是那個不叫緊急會議，因為那時候的備轉容量率還在6%以上，是安全的，是很安全的，是在下午的時候……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席現在問是2.8%的時候，有沒有依照我們的內部通報機制召開緊急會議？"],["王總經理耀庭：相關同仁都在我們的緊急會議室，沒有召開緊急會議的這個名目，但是我們的高階主管全部在那個地方。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席要請教你們打給這十家工業大戶是用什麼樣名義跟決策？法源依據在哪裡？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們有需量反應的機制，也是有合約的關係。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，您聽得懂剛剛本席的疑問跟質詢了嗎？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：台電內部有我剛剛提到的這個機制，這個也是依照相關條例，在台電內部設立電源不足時期限制用電辦法，限制用電辦法明文規定，低於90萬瓩的時候要召開緊急會議，同時也要通報經濟部；剛剛總經理也承認了，其實當天已經低於90萬瓩了，但是沒有依照相關辦法來召開緊急會議；他說大家有在這個會議裡面，但是沒有成立這樣的一個應變小組，也有去打電話給這十家的工業大戶。我們就要問這十家工業大戶到底是依照什麼樣的法源依據？這些工業大戶算是配合，因為可能也認為我們就一起共體時艱，大家覺得你是發電機關，你是發電公司，你告訴我們電源不夠了，我們該降的降，該調整的調整；但是你沒有相關的法源依據，如果你有成立這個緊急會議的話，你才能夠有法源依據去要求，不是嗎？而且有沒有依照相關的規定通報經濟部？還是因為現在是5月20日之前，所以大家便宜行事，反正手機拿起來打一下，用LINE傳一下，大家就用人情拜託，總經理平常跟你也不錯，部長平常跟大家也不錯，所以我就傳訊給你，我就打電話給你，你降就對了、啟動就對了！國家做事都沒有一個法源、都沒有一個辦法嗎？"],["王部長美花：我可不可以說明一下？第一個，委員講的那個時段，事實上，台電所有高階主管都在25樓的會議裡面，這個會議事實上……"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼沒有依照法規、為什麼沒有依照辦法來成立緊急應變小組召開緊急會議？"],["王部長美花：那個時間比較重要的是來解決問題，所有的高管都已經在這邊處理這個問題了。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然都要解決問題，本席要問的是後續請提供緊急會議的會議紀錄，有沒有？"],["王部長美花：我想既然叫……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有？"],["王部長美花：我想既然是緊急會議……"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是又是黑箱作業？"],["王部長美花：既然叫緊急會議，就是要處理事情……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有錯，緊急會議就是要處理事情，但是你的會議紀錄在哪裡？"],["王部長美花：我再請台電來跟委員做說明，那我想……"],["洪委員孟楷：這不是說明就可以解決的，如果說我們國家做事……"],["王部長美花：委員要知道在那個時間最重要的是解決問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：當然要解決問題，但更重要的是你的法源依據在哪裡？三秒鐘也是開會、成立、趕快、決策、有人負責，三分鐘之內就可以做出決定，這就有法源依據。你有辦法……"],["王部長美花：他們所有人都那邊做了。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果說你的辦法出來之後，你沒有依照相關的辦法去做，而是每一次都是用人治的、都是私下拜託的，你除了第一，沒有法源依據，第二，便宜行事，第三，迴避國會的監督，所以本席才會……"],["王部長美花：委員這樣講，我不能接受。"],["洪委員孟楷：我不管你能不能接受，因為今天是你做不到。"],["王部長美花：不是做不到，我們是趕快解決……"],["洪委員孟楷：你沒有權力接不接受，現在是本席在質詢你，本席在問說那緊急會議的會議紀錄在哪裡、當天做出決策的會議紀錄在哪裡？可不可以提供？"],["王部長美花：我們可以把那一天在開會時有碰到什麼問題、然後做了怎麼樣的一個處理，可以跟委員做一個報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以當天有會議紀錄嗎？"],["王部長美花：當天當然沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然沒有會議紀錄！部長親口承認……"],["王部長美花：既然叫緊急會議，當天的會議是要解決問題，當天的會議不是為了要做成會議紀錄嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：4月15號在那麼緊急的一個狀況下沒有會議紀錄，大家就是共同的來黑箱作業。"],["王部長美花：這個不叫黑箱，這個解決問題最重要啊！第二個……"],["洪委員孟楷：當然解決問題重要，但你現在便宜行事。"],["王部長美花：這不叫便宜行事……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席就已經講出來了，一開始我就講說有沒有這樣的法律跟辦法。"],["王部長美花：委員，要救人、救電，當然最重要就是要來解決事情最重要嘛！至於……"],["洪委員孟楷：我講一句不客氣的話，所謂的要救電是誰造成的？也是你台電、也是你經濟部，不是嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個地震造成的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：能源政策搞得左支右絀、能源政策搞得讓大家覺得提心吊膽、能源政策搞得要去調頭寸，這不是你經濟部造成的嗎？"],["王部長美花：這是地震的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：你今天反客為主……"],["王部長美花：我沒有反客為主，你要讓我們說明嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：你今天顛倒是非、你今天讓大家覺得說明明是你自己闖出來的禍，結果你今天有這樣的一個緊急狀況，竟還沒有會議紀錄！這不是黑箱的話，什麼才是黑箱？"],["王部長美花：我完全不能接受這種東西。"],["洪委員孟楷：我不管你接不接受，因為這根本不是你的權力。"],["王部長美花：委員不可以這樣誣衊我們，我們要這樣做是把事情……"],["洪委員孟楷：這不是你的權力！"],["王部長美花：我們跟這些大用戶都有相關的契約。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席再次強調，臺灣、我們中華民國是法治的國家，本來就有相關的辦法，你沒有辦法自圓其說！部長，你沒有辦法自圓其說，因為你現在……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：最重要的是，你這樣是迴避國會的監督。"],["王部長美花：我沒有，我們就在這裡讓委員監督。"],["洪委員孟楷：完全迴避國會的監督，我說實在話，再道歉一百次都不及讓國人有一個合理安全穩定的用電來得重要，這是本席給你的最後忠告。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。我想大家都不要激動，趕快去把事情釐清楚。但是剛剛本席在詢答的時候，行政部門告訴我的是當天都沒有開會，現在是說高階主管都在現場，本席也問了，到底這一次的事件我們又多花了多少錢？告訴我1度電的調度是8塊，再接下來是說10塊，最後我說還有沒有兩成的彈性空間，最後說有，12塊，這個都依據你們既有的調度機制在走，到目前是如此嘛？王總。所以請行政部門在回答的時候要把真實的事情講出來，好不好？"],["洪委員孟楷：主席，我要求下班前提供資料。"],["主席：你把真實的事情講出來，民眾要知道，光一個這樣的事件發生的時候，人民的納稅錢還要增加多少？這是第一點。台電公司剛剛告訴我還沒有統計完成，那請你們在今天下班前把它統計完成，送交給經濟委員會以及詢答的委員，王總經理，謝謝。這才是非常理性的一個討論，因為不是罵來罵去，罵到最後得不到答案，民眾不要這個的。","接下來我們請黃國昌委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":3.5915937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.30346875,"end":14.509718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.20534375,"end":18.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.39096875,"end":18.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.72846875,"end":20.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.41596875,"end":21.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.52909375,"end":26.929718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.70596875,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.49034375,"end":39.822218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.39596875,"end":48.985343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.305968750000005,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.102843750000005,"end":55.431593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.62971875,"end":57.524093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.33409375,"end":65.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.767843750000004,"end":67.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":67.64909375,"end":69.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.18471875,"end":71.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":72.57659375,"end":75.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.07409375,"end":75.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":75.98534375,"end":76.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.84596875000001,"end":77.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.95971875000001,"end":79.37721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.90471875,"end":84.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":82.70159375,"end":83.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":83.98409375,"end":86.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.04721875,"end":87.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.70909375000001,"end":91.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.42159375,"end":93.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.05409375,"end":95.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":95.77971875,"end":97.09596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.01159375,"end":98.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":98.39534375000001,"end":98.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.90159375,"end":105.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.25909375,"end":111.28784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.74346875,"end":112.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.41409375,"end":117.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.91971875,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.77159375000001,"end":126.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.98159375,"end":128.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.77034375,"end":129.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.66471875000002,"end":129.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":129.68159375000002,"end":130.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.37346875,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":132.31409375,"end":133.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.56721875,"end":134.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":133.78221875,"end":133.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":133.84971875000002,"end":144.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.61721875,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.13534375,"end":144.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.22346875,"end":153.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.30659375000002,"end":156.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.74471875,"end":159.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.22534375,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":162.33471875,"end":162.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.17846875,"end":163.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.70159375,"end":167.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.08471875,"end":169.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.62034375000002,"end":171.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.57784375,"end":175.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.68284375000002,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.36471875,"end":194.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.92909375000002,"end":194.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":194.39721875,"end":196.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.13534375,"end":196.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.23659375000003,"end":199.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.93221875,"end":200.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":199.98284375,"end":204.35346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.25659375,"end":204.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.14659375000002,"end":205.93971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.15034375000002,"end":208.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.36534375000002,"end":215.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.04409375,"end":213.11159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":213.11159375000003,"end":213.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.97221875000002,"end":215.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.64284375000003,"end":218.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.59159375000002,"end":225.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.34659375,"end":221.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.09284375000001,"end":232.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.54846875,"end":226.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.10846875000001,"end":236.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.25971875000002,"end":238.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.60971875,"end":250.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.84534375,"end":244.83659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.66659375,"end":261.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.82534375,"end":263.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.39909375,"end":264.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.45784375,"end":271.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.32596875,"end":273.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.82784375,"end":278.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.38409375000003,"end":279.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.76784375,"end":303.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.19721875,"end":287.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.28721875,"end":321.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.39846875,"end":324.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.63034375,"end":323.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.63846875,"end":328.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.02596875,"end":365.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.34909375,"end":340.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.90596875,"end":341.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.27284375000005,"end":342.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.44159375000004,"end":344.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.86284375,"end":347.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.56034375,"end":369.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.60659375,"end":367.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.96471875000003,"end":375.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.18409375000005,"end":371.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.73221875,"end":373.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.20409375,"end":380.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":380.17409375,"end":380.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.96721875000003,"end":391.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.32409375000003,"end":407.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.27096875,"end":413.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.63721875000005,"end":417.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.05846875000003,"end":424.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.43721875,"end":435.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.04721875,"end":445.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.64596875,"end":439.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":439.05096875000004,"end":439.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":445.12596875,"end":446.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.68284375,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.52909375,"end":459.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.67221875,"end":463.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.21159375,"end":469.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.07159375000003,"end":469.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.32471875000005,"end":472.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":471.50159375000004,"end":484.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.65596875000006,"end":484.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.74846875000003,"end":488.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.01846875,"end":486.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":488.10659375000006,"end":496.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.86534375,"end":501.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":496.76346875,"end":497.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.24784375,"end":502.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":503.05784375,"end":507.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.13784375000006,"end":504.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.50471875000005,"end":507.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":507.88409375000003,"end":509.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.76159375000003,"end":513.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":510.58409375,"end":510.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":514.24596875,"end":519.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.2622187500001,"end":520.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":519.3759687500001,"end":522.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.55284375,"end":527.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":522.97034375,"end":523.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":523.0378437500001,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.96596875,"end":524.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.55659375,"end":524.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.7253437500001,"end":524.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.5222187500001,"end":554.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.9128437500001,"end":542.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":554.20596875,"end":554.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":554.91471875,"end":559.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.6653437500001,"end":561.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":561.34409375,"end":563.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.7153437500001,"end":570.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":570.8784687500001,"end":583.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.4353437500001,"end":572.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.9953437500001,"end":580.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.8428437499999,"end":593.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":584.1928437500001,"end":584.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.0365937500001,"end":585.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.40784375,"end":588.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.93471875,"end":589.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":589.5590937500001,"end":589.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.6772187500001,"end":591.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.28409375,"end":595.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":595.00971875,"end":599.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.96284375,"end":605.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":600.7978437500001,"end":609.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.7122187500001,"end":632.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":615.5803437500001,"end":616.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.2665937500001,"end":630.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.10534375,"end":631.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.13909375,"end":643.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.3615937500001,"end":639.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":640.7578437500001,"end":641.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.09096875,"end":651.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.4028437500001,"end":646.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.71471875,"end":646.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.0478437500001,"end":651.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.94596875,"end":659.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.26971875,"end":664.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.1809687500001,"end":667.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":664.70346875,"end":664.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":666.6103437500001,"end":669.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.7409687500001,"end":680.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.30846875,"end":682.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.6753437500001,"end":686.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.1640937500001,"end":688.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.15096875,"end":695.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.5634687500001,"end":699.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.56284375,"end":703.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.83659375,"end":705.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.24971875,"end":708.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.18596875,"end":710.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.0590937500001,"end":711.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.25721875,"end":715.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.46346875,"end":717.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.6909687500001,"end":734.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.84096875,"end":730.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.83659375,"end":731.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.5828437499999,"end":739.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":740.26971875,"end":753.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.6684687500001,"end":756.28409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.229,"end":19.042,"text":"我們請洪孟楷委員請做詢答主席謝謝麻煩請王美花部長跟台電好我們請以上兩位"},{"start":27.739,"end":54.617,"text":"部長早上本時有看到您針對桃園的跳電道歉桃園總共有4000多戶今天早上跳電你剛扯的理由其實不能算理由報載是說是龍潭這邊跳電那今天早上全省也都北部地區都大雷雨為什麼獨獨就只有龍潭有沒有算過你也即將要離開部長這個職務但有沒有算過你在部長任內"},{"start":56.659,"end":75.495,"text":"道歉了幾次?跟委員報告齁那這個我們講的都不是叫扯啦齁那這個事實就是事實我現在問的問題是有沒有算過部長任內道歉了幾次?我沒有特別算那有意向中道歉幾次?沒有特別想這些事情對"},{"start":76.894,"end":77.535,"text":"發言委員：洪孟楷發言委員：洪孟楷"},{"start":95.834,"end":112.091,"text":"都是跟電有關都跟電有關阿2021年有全台大跳電五天內兩次停電經濟部長道歉2022年3月3號全台大停電經濟部長道歉今年"},{"start":113.784,"end":129.41,"text":"龍潭桃園連三天跳電經濟部長又道歉每一次道歉都一定會講一句不容許再發生這樣的錯誤了不容許再讓國人沒有電可以用了結果道歉完還是一樣啊"},{"start":130.391,"end":140.099,"text":"道歉完還是這樣子啊還是一而再再而三的道歉啊很廉價的道歉國人、民眾感受不到我不知道說部長哪來的勇氣可以在國會殿堂裡面講說你的道歉是真誠的我剛連問你說你道歉過幾次你也不記得了然後你的道歉的理由你只記得說跟電有關"},{"start":157.756,"end":185.914,"text":"我之前在總之宣言就問過你啊你的勇氣到底是梁靜茹給你還是張正岳給你的不是 我覺得我們做事情就是為國家認真來做事情部長想請教4月15號這一次我們有提到也有人講到是說這個金掌或是說這個台電高層緊急出手打電話給我們這一些國內的大戶請他們要嘛就是降載要嘛就是啟動他們的一些備用電源有沒有這樣的事情"},{"start":186.654,"end":191.338,"text":"我們在這個非常緊急的像這種臨時出狀況的部分我們確實有電話聯絡有電話聯繫是當初電話聯絡聯絡了多少家業者?因為這個是台電這邊來做相關的聯絡總經理請回答"},{"start":209.989,"end":214.433,"text":"媒體報導也有講是說當天的備轉容量率最低的時候到2.8%2.8%換算成這個千瓦的話會是多少?"},{"start":237.301,"end":241.203,"text":"臺電有個內規叫做臺灣電力公司電源不足時期限制用電辦法執行及通報機制有嗎?"},{"start":241.203,"end":241.223,"text":"有"},{"start":265.506,"end":293.485,"text":"他有講到如果說少於90萬千瓦的時候要召開第1次的緊急會議所以剛有提到4月15號是低於90萬千瓦有沒有召開緊急會議跟委員報告發生低於剛剛講到八八八十萬這個是到了晚上的6點16分是那有沒有召開緊急會議那我們在前面都會有召開會議每天都會開會但是說會議的頻度跟他的那個層級"},{"start":294.466,"end":302.715,"text":"本席現在要問的是說你剛剛已經承認了台電內部我們有電源不足時期限制用電辦法執行跟通報機制"},{"start":304.329,"end":322.469,"text":"他有講到如果說少於90萬千瓦要召開第一次的緊急會議如果更急迫少於50萬千瓦要召開第二次的緊急會議並且要即刻通報經濟部經濟部也要成立緊急應變小組對嗎沒有錯那本席現在請教"},{"start":324.867,"end":342.295,"text":"4月15號那天有沒有依照相關規定召開緊急會議我們是在當天的早上8點10分跟12點召開會議但是那個不叫緊急會議因為那個時候的備轉容量率還有在6%以上是安全的是很安全的本席現在問是2.8%的時候有沒有依照我們的內部通報機制"},{"start":347.017,"end":370.987,"text":"召開緊急會議我們相關同仁都在我們的緊急會議室但是沒有那個名目說召開這個緊急會議沒有這個名目但是我們的高階主管全部在那個地方那你做出來決策你好那本席要請教所以你今天打給這10家工業大戶你是用什麼樣的名義跟決策我們有所謂的虛量反應我們有虛量反應的機制第一個是虛量反應的機制虛量反應的機制也是有合約的關係"},{"start":377.273,"end":390.679,"text":"您聽得懂剛剛本席的疑問跟質詢了嗎?是台電內部有我剛剛提到的這個是我們也是依照相關條例台電內部有設立電源不足時期限制用電辦法"},{"start":392.386,"end":412.392,"text":"限制優先辦法明文就已經有規定了如果說低於90萬千瓦的時候要召開緊急會議那也要通報經濟部但是剛剛總經理也承認了就是說其實當天已經低於90萬千瓦了但是沒有依照相關的辦法來召開緊急會議他又嘗試說大家有在這個會議裡面但是沒有來成立這樣的一個應變小組"},{"start":413.672,"end":434.763,"text":"那可是有去打電話給這10家的工業大戶那我們就要問這10家工業大戶他到底是依照什麼樣的法源依據先工業大戶算是配合啊因為可能也認為是說我們國家共體時間大家覺得是說好如果說現在真的你告訴我們你是發電機關你是發電公司你告訴我們說電源不夠了我們該降的降該調整的調整"},{"start":436.384,"end":455.361,"text":"但是你沒有相關法院依據啊因為如果說你有成立這個緊急會議的話你才能夠有法院依據來去要求不是嗎而且有沒有依照相關的規定來通報經濟部還是現在都是因為5月20號之前了所以大家便宜行事換點手機拿起來卡這個LINE傳這個"},{"start":457.583,"end":480.611,"text":"阿大家用人情拜託的阿中間你平常跟你也不錯你保證跟平常跟你也不錯所以我就傳訊給你我就打電話給你你就這樣就對了你就啟動就對了國家做事都沒有一個法源都沒有一個辦法嗎我可不可以我說明一下齁那第一個委員講的那個時段事實上他們台電的所有的高階通貨都在這個25樓的會議裡面那這個會議事實上 那為什麼沒有依照法規"},{"start":485.033,"end":494.041,"text":"為什麼沒有依照辦法來成立緊急應變小組來召開緊急會議那個時間比較重要是來解決問題那所有的高管都已經在這邊出了這個問題了本席要問的後續就是請提供緊急會議的會議記錄"},{"start":502.298,"end":513.381,"text":"有沒有沒有那是不是又是黑箱作業你就是讓沒有錯緊急會議就要處理事情但是你的會議記錄在哪裡這不是說明就可以解決的如果說我們國家內做事當然要解決問題但是更重要的是你的法源依據在哪裡"},{"start":528.647,"end":553.782,"text":"三秒鐘也是開會成立趕快決策有人負責三分鐘之內就可以做出決定這就有法源依據你有辦法如果說你的辦法出來之後你沒有依照相關的辦法去做而是每一次都是用人質的都是私下拜託的你除了第一沒有法源依據第二便宜行事第三是迴避國會的監督這個"},{"start":555.283,"end":556.604,"text":"本席在問說那緊急會議的會議記錄在哪裡?當天做錯決策會議記錄在哪裡?"},{"start":570.908,"end":572.569,"text":"主委提供所以當天有會議記錄嗎?當然沒有會議記錄部長親口承認4月15號在那麼緊急的狀況下沒有會議記錄大家就是共同的來"},{"start":594.349,"end":622.278,"text":"黑箱作業這個不叫黑箱這個解決問題最重要啊當然解決問題最重要但是你現在便宜形式本席就已經講出來了一開始我就講說有沒有這樣的辦法當然最重要就是要來解決事情最重要嘛我講不客氣的要所謂的救電是誰造成的也是你台電也是你經濟部不是嗎能源政策左肢右臭能源政策搞得讓大家覺得說提心吊膽能源政策搞得要去掉頭寸"},{"start":623.258,"end":643.91,"text":"這不是你經濟部造成的嗎這地震的問題你今天反客為主我沒有反客你今天反客為主你今天顛倒是非你今天讓大家覺得是說明明是你自己闖出來的禍結果你今天有這樣的一個緊急狀況還沒有會議記錄這不黑箱 什麼才是黑箱我完全不能接受這種東西我不管你接不接受因為這根本不是你的權利我們要這樣做事情不是你的權利我們跟這些大用戶都有相關的契約我們都有契約"},{"start":652.894,"end":680.289,"text":"臺灣我們中華民國是法治的國家而本來就有相關的辦法你沒有辦法自圓其說我沒有辦法自圓其說部長你沒有辦法自圓其說因為你要看立法行政最重要是你這樣是迴避國會的監督完全迴避國會的監督我說實在的話再道歉100次都不及讓國人有一個合理安全穩定的用電來的重要這是本期給你的最後忠告謝謝"},{"start":681.583,"end":694.889,"text":"好 謝謝我想大家都不要激動趕快去把事情理清楚但是行政部門剛剛本席在詢答的時候告訴我是當天都沒有開會"},{"start":696.896,"end":709.473,"text":"現在是說這個高階主管都在現場本席也問了到底這一次的事件我們又多花了多少錢告訴我一度的調度是8塊再接下來說10塊最後"},{"start":713.117,"end":715.938,"text":"行政部門請你們在回答的時候你把真實的事情講出來"},{"start":731.828,"end":751.958,"text":"你把真實的事情講出來民眾要知道光光一個這樣的事件發生的時候我們納稅錢還要增加多少這是第一點所以也請台電公司你請剛剛你告訴我你們還沒有統計完成那你們在今天下班前請把它統計完成送交給經濟委員會以及巡達的委員那個王總經理謝謝好接下來"}]}},{"id":"151428","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151428","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44549db048d5bb0bbc50525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c943d1a61e1783180a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:32:58 - 11:43:37","影片長度":"00:10:39","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":639,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:43:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:32:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":762,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時33分）謝謝主席！我們請黃主委。"],["主席（黃委員珊珊代）：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["李委員坤城：主委好！因為我是今年2月才當選立委，所以過去跟你共事的時間其實也不久，不過在就任這兩個多月以來，得知業界對你的風評都很不錯，但是也都普遍認為主委比較偏向監督管理這方面，對於興利這方面好像做得比較少，不曉得主委對於外界這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我通常都是謙虛、公開，就是大家的指教我們就虛心接受。不過我跟委員報告，我從上任以來，每一年新春記者會都有列下來幾個面向和幾十項、上百項我們推動的措施，我想記者朋友很清楚，我們去看看這裡面難道真的只有限制，沒有開放、沒有興利嗎？我個人覺得這樣的評論不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相宜。"],["李委員坤城：所以對於這樣的評論你不服氣就對了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我不想說不服氣，我虛心接受，但是我覺得……"],["李委員坤城：那能不能請主委稍微談一下，你認為在你任內在興利這部分做得比較好的大概是哪些？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這要看你怎麼定義興利。"],["李委員坤城：就主委來看嘛。"],["黃主任委員天牧：比方說在雲端委外方面，我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施，從核准制變成以風險為基礎的備查制，這個大幅的讓業者將來不論是在資訊的安全或是業務的發展上都有很大的空間。"],["李委員坤城：除了監督管理之外，許多業者當然也希望我們能在興利這部分可以做得更多。我是今年2月才上任，其實也不太清楚過去主委對於興利的部分做了哪些，可是因為你可以在任4年，我相信在管理跟興利這方面其實應該都有在做，不然也不會說你是目前為止任期最長的金管會主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：不過還是請委員給我一點時間，對於外界對我們的任何指教，包括是不是過於保守或是只重監理不重發展興利，我都虛心接受，因為公務員、政務官本來就是要接受大家的批評跟指教，我只有不斷的努力，我沒有意思要去辯駁。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說如果有做的話，其實外界的感受要更深才對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我講一句話，我從上任以來，已經把93年金管會成立前20年所有的法規廢掉了八千多件，但是沒有人會知道，可是那就是我們要做的扎根的工作。"],["李委員坤城：廢掉八千多件是……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們對金管會成立以前這八千多個法規進行檢討。"],["李委員坤城：那些是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：不是，我們去檢討這些法規還需不需要用，不需要的就把它廢掉下架，減少業者的法遵成本。"],["李委員坤城：當然我是希望既然有做就要讓大家知道，因為不是只有你個人，這也包含顯示我們政府在做。現在要講興利，其實我記得前幾個禮拜也在講，就是希望我們的壽險業者能夠回來投資，我們的壽險業者對外投資很多，但是參與國內的公共建設其實比較少。今天我們談的這個REITs也是一樣，REITs的概念就是除了讓我們投資者更有機會來參與公共建設的成長，也希望能夠吸引資金回來臺灣投資或是加速投資臺灣的公共建設，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是的。"],["李委員坤城：同樣的，我要問誘因的部分夠不夠？我們前幾個禮拜也講到，要有什麼樣的誘因讓壽險業者回來投資臺灣的公共建設，因為去到國外的投資比例跟投資在臺灣的比例差太多。我們今天談這個REITs，那到底REITs有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者願意來投資？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個是一個封閉型基金，基本上對小額投資人而言是適合去投資的，那當然因為它是證券化的商品又有穩定的現金流量，也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司投資。"],["李委員坤城：就一般投資者來講，他可以透過REITs去投資臺灣的一些房地產，我們也希望有更多的REITs成立之後，對於臺灣的公共建設，他也能夠去投資，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是公共建設必須要有穩定的現金流量和一定的期間。"],["李委員坤城：我們的不動產投資信託現在大概只有6家，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大概6、7家左右。"],["李委員坤城：6家啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：6、7檔。"],["李委員坤城：對，6、7檔，這個也很久了，為什麼這麼少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就相對來講，這些發行機構比較沒有強烈的積極性去增加它下面發行的……"],["李委員坤城：對啊！我的意思是說今天我們修正過相關條例之後，我們的REITs相關的這些基金會增加嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們當然預期如此，剛才召委也特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標，如果通過之後我們預期可能產生多少的基金和規模，我們會再去估算。"],["李委員坤城：所以有哪些指標嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔，約七百多億，將來如果這個法案通過之後，預期第一年可能會有多少基金募集，可以募集多少金額，可能就從這方面去估計。"],["李委員坤城：你們有概算過嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：當年是有一些估算，但是不是很精確啦，剛才郭召委有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下。"],["李委員坤城：這個其實上一屆也有提出來，因為屆期不續審，所以今年再度提出。我的意思是如果要有這個誘因的話，我不知道你們的誘因在哪裡，能夠讓目前只有6檔的基金，在相關條例修改之後，願意去投資臺灣的公共建設。請問這個誘因在哪裡？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，因為以前是信託型的，銀行藉著信託去做的，它的管理機構是間接委託，現在改成投信兼營或是專營的不動產投資信託基金，跟其他國家的組織架構是相同的，它更專業，感覺上應該是更積極，所以才要引入基金型的這個機制。"],["李委員坤城：過去REITs的平均殖利率大概是2.22%到3.29%之間，算是穩定，可是交易量非常的少。就你們的經驗來講，殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力？相關條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個市場的機制我不敢妄言，不過當然大家希望比一般的存款利率要高，因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的，所以收益高可是要安全。"],["李委員坤城：是啊！沒有錯，但是你也要有誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：誘因就是我們的機制上要對投資人保護，比方說他的投資標的一定比例是有固定收益來源的期間，這個部分在整個的法案中就是在建構一個有利於投資人保護的機制，讓投資人覺得投資這個放心，又有一定程度的報酬率。"],["李委員坤城：條例的第四十九條之十三提到本條文生效日起算十年內，買賣不動產投資信託基金受益憑證，停徵證券交易稅，有這個規定對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，這也要謝謝財政部的支持。"],["李委員坤城：但是不動產證券化條例第四十九條的規定是免徵耶！"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為現在的納保法規定沒有辦法永久，一定要定一個期間。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說就我來看，它的誘因跟不動產證券化條例的精神應該是一樣的，如果這樣子的話，是不是能夠跟不動產證券化條例一樣直接免徵就好了，不用規定只有10年期間，等10年之後再來看一下要怎麼樣決定？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個部分可由宋署長跟您報告。"],["宋署長秀玲：報告委員，因為納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的，新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定實施年限，由於本法是定在納稅者權利保護法生效之後，所以必須要照相關的法律規定來辦理，因此一定要定實施期限，就不能用免徵，要用停徵的方式。"],["李委員坤城：意思是說這個不動產證券化條例的規定，是因為你剛才講的之前就通過的那個規定？"],["宋署長秀玲：對，那是之前就通過的。"],["李委員坤城：所以現在就是10年要檢討一次？"],["宋署長秀玲：是。"],["李委員坤城：這個有規定就對了？"],["宋署長秀玲：對，這是有法律規定的。"],["李委員坤城：我想說如果精神是一致的話，何以我們的不動產證券化規定的是免徵而這個條例裡面卻變成10年之後再討論。"],["宋署長秀玲：委員的觀察非常敏銳，它的差距就是因為這樣的緣故。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝主委！謝謝署長！"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：我們接下來請王世堅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.797218750000003,"end":11.927843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.26534375,"end":13.446593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.404093750000001,"end":16.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.78721875,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.54659375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.49159375,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.21284375,"end":24.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.97221875,"end":37.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.54409375,"end":38.438468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.657843750000005,"end":42.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.24784375,"end":45.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.032218750000006,"end":49.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.45784375,"end":53.727218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.08159375,"end":56.275343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.71409375,"end":58.182218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.84034375,"end":69.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.61596875,"end":63.649718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.750968750000006,"end":63.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.52221875000001,"end":70.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.17596875000001,"end":89.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.19034375000001,"end":90.76784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.39659375000001,"end":93.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.23159375,"end":100.47096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.61846875,"end":106.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.09034375,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.08159375000001,"end":115.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.21971875000001,"end":119.84346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.16409375,"end":126.17159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.25596875000001,"end":148.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.34534375,"end":158.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.87971875000002,"end":179.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.59534375,"end":169.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.05846875,"end":175.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.07534375,"end":175.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.09221875,"end":175.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.27721875,"end":184.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.76159375,"end":186.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.11159375000003,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.46596875,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.57534375,"end":194.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.49846875,"end":199.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.96596875,"end":201.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.28221875000003,"end":204.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.20159375,"end":206.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.31096875,"end":214.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.63034375,"end":214.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.93409375000002,"end":241.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.57971875,"end":259.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.86784375,"end":261.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.25159375000004,"end":265.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.62659375000004,"end":267.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.82034375,"end":268.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.76534375,"end":271.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.95471875000004,"end":274.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.94159375000004,"end":283.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.95284375,"end":286.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.91409375,"end":290.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.71971875,"end":296.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.87909375000004,"end":303.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.57846875,"end":306.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.76784375,"end":315.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.40784375000004,"end":323.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.41909375,"end":329.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.90784375000004,"end":333.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.05471875,"end":336.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.96971875,"end":341.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.08346875,"end":339.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.27721875000003,"end":346.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.33534375000005,"end":355.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.15284375000005,"end":360.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.43034375,"end":360.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.07159375000003,"end":363.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.97409375,"end":367.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.95659375,"end":381.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.47346875000005,"end":383.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.66284375000004,"end":398.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.69471875000005,"end":396.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.48784375,"end":399.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.39034375,"end":407.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.87471875,"end":406.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.10659375,"end":438.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.78534375000004,"end":458.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.24846875000003,"end":444.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.45721875000004,"end":466.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.75971875000005,"end":481.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.94721875000005,"end":483.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.10721875,"end":492.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.61221875,"end":497.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.19784375,"end":503.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.59784375000004,"end":522.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.2065937500001,"end":530.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.12096875,"end":534.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.9853437500001,"end":538.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.13659375,"end":539.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.41909375,"end":542.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.49471875,"end":545.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.22846875,"end":548.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.56534375,"end":550.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.82659375,"end":551.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.8603437500001,"end":558.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.8772187500001,"end":551.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.9953437500001,"end":552.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.44596875,"end":558.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.8803437500001,"end":558.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.96471875,"end":559.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.2178437499999,"end":559.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.97721875,"end":561.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.96846875,"end":561.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.9853437500001,"end":567.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.9340937500001,"end":566.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.5034687500001,"end":580.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.7434687500001,"end":571.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.6828437500001,"end":583.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.88909375,"end":606.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.04159375,"end":607.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.95284375,"end":613.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.5134687500001,"end":611.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.4540937500001,"end":614.9053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.82096875,"end":617.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.31846875,"end":618.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.44909375,"end":620.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.3559687500001,"end":622.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.14471875,"end":624.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.64221875,"end":627.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.86534375,"end":632.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.7422187500001,"end":636.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.5559687500001,"end":636.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.6572187500001,"end":636.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.06221875,"end":638.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.8003437500001,"end":638.8172187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.497,"end":12.618,"text":"謝謝主席我們請黃主委"},{"start":25.453,"end":25.593,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":43.785,"end":55.85,"text":"檢督這管理這方面那對於這個先例這方面呢好像做的比較少我不曉得這個主委對於外界這樣的這一個這樣的一個看法有什麼樣的回應嗎"},{"start":57.596,"end":61.38,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":78.537,"end":100.311,"text":"難道真的只有限制、沒有開放、沒有心力嗎?我個人覺得這樣的評論我覺得不見得跟我過去所推動的措施相似。所以你自己這樣的評論你不服氣就對了?我不想說不服氣,我虛心接受,但是我覺得我們...那樂文請主委稍微談一下你認為說在你任內你覺得說在心力這部分你覺得做得比較好大概是哪些部分?"},{"start":101.667,"end":129.963,"text":"我覺得至少在在這個看你怎麼定義心理沒有沒有就是就主委來看嘛比方說至少在雲端委外方面我們在去年8月發布的這個雲端委外措施從核准制變成以風險為基礎的這個被查制這個大幅的讓業者將來在不論在資訊的安全或是將來業務的發展上有很大的這個空間沒有就是說這個當然啦我是希望說這個我們除了這個"},{"start":131.864,"end":158.361,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關監督管理之外那許多業者他們當然希望說在心理這部分的話其實我們可以做更多啦那因為我是說我是今年2月我才上任這其實我也不太清楚說過去這個主委對於這個心理的部分做了哪些啦那可是因為你可以做4年我相信應該是管理跟心理這方面其實應該都有在做啦那不然也不會說這個是目前為止是任期最長的這個金管會會員還是給我一點時間我覺得啊"},{"start":160.902,"end":163.244,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。厲不厲害?"},{"start":188.841,"end":214.138,"text":"金管會成立93年以前20年所有的法規已經廢掉了8000多件但是沒有人會知道但是那就是我們要做雜燈的工作廢掉8000多件那是8000多個法規我們去檢討金管會成立以前那個之後是什麼綁手綁腳的法規嗎不是那些法規我們檢討這些法規還需不需要用不需要就把它廢掉下架這減少業者的法尊成本"},{"start":215.638,"end":240.54,"text":"現在這個當然我是希望說有做也讓大家知道因為不是只有你個人這也包含這個我們政府在做那現在要講心力其實這個我記得這個前幾個禮拜也在講就是我們希望說這個這個我們受寫業者能夠回來投資這個我們受寫業者對外投資很多但是參與這個國內的公共建設其實比較少那今天我們談這個REITs其實REITs也是一樣"},{"start":241.681,"end":241.781,"text":"是的。"},{"start":262.604,"end":286.402,"text":"那我同樣講誘因的部分夠不夠啦就是說受險業者我們過去前幾個禮拜講說要什麼樣的誘因讓他回來投資台灣的這個公共建設哇大概這個去到這個國外的這個投資比例跟投資在台灣的這比例差太多那我們今天談這個REITS那到底REITS有什麼樣的誘因可以讓投資者他願意去來投資"},{"start":289.513,"end":314.249,"text":"這個基本上他是一個封閉型基金他基本上對小額投資人是可以去適合去投資的那當然因為他是證據化的商品又有穩定的現金流量他也適合機構投資人比方說保險公司對就是說就一般的這個投資者來講他這個他可以去投資這一個透過這個REIT來投資這個臺灣的一些房地產"},{"start":315.418,"end":320.042,"text":"但是公共建設必須要有穩定現金流量要有一定的期間的我看我們過去的這個不動產投資信託大概只有現在只有6家對不對"},{"start":338.001,"end":356.288,"text":"五、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國"},{"start":367.984,"end":382.809,"text":"我們當然預期剛才召委有特別希望我們能夠列出一些指標我們如果通過之後我們預計有多少的這個產生多少的這個可能產生的這個基金的規模我們會再去估算不是啊那所以有哪些指標嗎"},{"start":385.287,"end":398.616,"text":"指標就是看比方說現在大概6、7檔在700多億將來如果這個法案通過之後那預期可能第一年可能會有多少基金募集可以募集多少金額可能就從這方面去估計有概算過嗎"},{"start":400.621,"end":428.971,"text":"當年是有一些估算但是不是很精確了那當然我想跟郭昭惠有特別要求我們再繼續去算一下是啊因為這其實上一屆有提出來了那這個我們就是既期就不續審了那今年再提出來了那我的意思是說如果要有這個誘因的話那我是不知道說你們的這個誘因在哪裡能夠讓目前只有六黨的這個基金這個在我們這個相關條例修改之後"},{"start":429.611,"end":444.838,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":459.457,"end":482.919,"text":"過去瑞士平均的殖利率大概是2.2%到3.9%之間算是穩定可是交易量是非常的少就你們的經驗來講殖利率大概要多少以上才有市場的吸引力我們相關的條文通過之後有辦法達到嗎?"},{"start":484.178,"end":503.007,"text":"我這個市場的機制我不敢妄言不過當然大家希望是比一般的存款利率要高因為收益跟安全性都是很重要的所以收益高可是也要有安全是啊沒有錯啊但是你也要有那個誘因讓大家願意去投資才對啊"},{"start":503.687,"end":504.707,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":523.257,"end":541.032,"text":"我們條例裡面這個第49條第13這邊有提到說這一個本條文生效日期算10年內買賣不動產投資信託基金收益憑證停徵證券交易稅這個是有這個條例嘛對不對是這也是謝謝財政部的支持但是這個不動產證券化條例第49條它是免徵"},{"start":552.149,"end":579.778,"text":"因為現在的納保法是不是規定沒有辦法永久嗎?一定要有定一個期間?就是說我的意思是說就我來看這一個它的用意跟不動產證據法條例的精神是應該是一樣的啦那如果這樣子的話那是不是說能夠跟這個不動產證據法條例一樣就是就免徵就好了那不用說這個10年只有10年期間那10年之後呢再來看一下要怎麼樣做決定"},{"start":580.711,"end":606.462,"text":"委員這個宋署長可以跟您報告報告委員因為我們後來有納稅者權利保護法是大概106年左右生效的他新增的規定是所有的租稅優惠都一定要定時時年限所以因為這個法是定在這個納稅者權利保護法生效之後所以一定要照相關的法律規定來辦理所以一定要定時時期限就不能用免徵要用停徵的方式"},{"start":607.102,"end":631.837,"text":"那所以意思是說這個過去這個不通產證券化條例是因為那個你剛才講那個那是之前通過的對它之前就通過的那所以現在就是說10年就要檢討一次嗎是是是這個是有有有規定就對了對這是有法律規定的不然我想說如果精神是一致的話那在我們這一個不通產證券化它是它是免徵那為什麼在我們這個這個條例裡面它變成說10年之後再討論勒"},{"start":632.859,"end":635.828,"text":"是,委員觀察非常敏銳,他的差距就是因為這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝署長。"}]}},{"id":"151427","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151427","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452f660c102fc00c12cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94b79a220842b8dbde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"11:28:08 - 11:42:08","影片長度":"00:14:00","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":840,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:42:08+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:28:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":496,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（11時28分）請委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：洪委員你好。"],["洪委員申翰：委員長好。從這幾年我們看了一下僑委會的預算裡面，大概滿清楚可以看到僑生的業務如果扣除一般的行政費用的話，其實占了整體業務費……我目前看到的數字是占了一半以上。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["洪委員申翰：所以這代表僑生來臺的政策其實是我們非常非常重要的政策方向，尤其是對僑委會裡面來說，委員長同意嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我同意。"],["洪委員申翰：所以，委員長我們看了這個書面報告，這個報告裡面也提到，讓海外僑生來臺接受教育，能促成他們更認識臺灣，甚至把好的人才留下來，甚至回到僑居地以後，大概發展出更多的校友組織，來把臺灣自由民主的價值，這大概也是我們二軌外交上面很重要的努力。","但委員長要看一下，監察院去年在12月的時候發布的一個調查報告裡面看到，其實僑委會從103年開始擴大辦理的這個計畫，103是2014年嘛！產學攜手合作僑生專班，畢業率跟留臺率都……"],["徐委員長佳青：非常低"],["洪委員申翰：偏低。"],["徐委員長佳青：非常低，對。"],["洪委員申翰：那目前完成7年的僑生總共是110年……他們大概在110年到112年3年的狀況裡面陸續畢業，從這表格裡面可以看到，其實畢業率跟留臺率都不到五成，甚至離五成是有很大一段距離。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["洪委員申翰：而且我最擔心的事情是，看起來這數字是逐年遞減，而且遞減的幅度非常大。委員長，這個部分僑委會有提出原因嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：有，我來了以後有認真地去看這些東西……"],["洪委員申翰：是。"],["徐委員長佳青：監察院的這個報告我也很認真地去看了，等於去年出來報告是再更前一年的。"],["洪委員申翰：對。"],["徐委員長佳青：事實上，這個計畫、產攜合作的專班是從2014年，就是103年開始。當時是有試辦性質，所以人數並不是很多。然後辦了3年，就是開始這3年有畢業生出現了嘛！我們有觀察到就是說，他們其實最容易離開的就是在高職端的時代。所以如果第1年、第2年他們不穩定的時候離開，你招生進來再多也沒有用。","所以我們現在是強化在高職端，因為那時候可能學生的年紀也偏輕，學校學生的輔導上面就需要給他們更多的援助。所以我們現在有2個措施在加強。第一個措施，通常適應不良原因是，第一個，他的華語能力還不太夠，所以怎麼強化他在來臺灣以前，他的華語程度就可以補充、增進。這樣的話，他的溝通能力跟他的適應力就會強化，這是第一個。","第二個，我們也要求學校，對於學生的生活照顧跟輔導上面，不要讓學生覺得說很孤單，沒有求助的這種狀況。還有一部分是，在最源頭，學生就帶著錯誤的資訊進來了。那這部分我確實不可諱言跟委員講……"],["洪委員申翰：委員長，我看了一下這個數據……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["洪委員申翰：尤其是112年畢業的這一梯，幾乎只有1/4畢業跟留臺。"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["洪委員申翰：坦白說，我覺得這恐怕稱不上是一個成功的計畫，甚至會被認為是一個失敗的計畫。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["洪委員申翰：在這個狀況之下，我其實不想多做苛責，也許它前面有一個試辦的意義在，但恐怕它這個不會是單一的原因，尤其是當你的留臺率跟畢業率幾乎都不到1/4，我相信這恐怕不是單一原因，恐怕是很多原因；甚至在計畫一開始設計之初，就有一些事情沒弄對。"],["徐委員長佳青：不過，我跟委員報告，我們現在有在追蹤了。從106年開始的，就2017年開始之後，這些進來讀書的學生從3年的高職畢業端去接科技大學，現在穩定度就高很多了。就是說，他們不是在高職就離開……"],["洪委員申翰：我想先問委員長，在這個數據之下，我們有沒有做相關的比較完整的調查？就是他們的調查到底原因……各自沒有辦法畢業、沒有辦法留臺最主要的原因，或前3個對他們來講最有影響的原因，我們有沒有這個相關的調查？"],["徐委員長佳青：有、有、有，我們都有跟學校端說，為什麼這個學生讀了一年、兩年，他就離開？"],["洪委員申翰：那這調查可不可以……也許這禮拜可以送到我們辦公室一份？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們會把這個資料彙整。"],["洪委員申翰：就是原因探究的調查。以這個績效來說，這勢必是一定需要一個完整的檢討的嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["洪委員申翰：這一定沒有錯。我覺得這部分一定有一些量化的評估，包括量化的因素、包括相關的問卷。這禮拜把會呈現這個數據的原因的調查報告給我們，好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：好的。"],["洪委員申翰：這禮拜好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：好的。委員，你看一下，如果他真的有畢業以後，他的留臺率其實是很接近的，就比例上做起來就是高，就是等於說他畢業完留臺就有高達9成的意思。所以我們現在就是緊盯著說，他為什麼在高職端就離開了？所以第一個，高職端他如果可以通過以後，通常穩定度就很高，因為他的適應力就增強了。所以我們現在都會緊盯著我們所有的高職端的這些狀況，我們會把資料整理好給您。"],["洪委員申翰：因為僑生的業務占僑委會這麼大的比例，這麼一個重要的政策卻呈現這個數據，我知道委員長一定會……"],["徐委員長佳青：不過，委員，我們的預算增加比例是從去年才開始增加的，在那之前並沒有。"],["洪委員申翰：對，我知道對委員長來說，你應該是會做很多的檢討，我覺得這個檢討包括可能會牽涉到需要有些跨部會的部分。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["洪委員申翰：包括對教育部、包括勞動部的部分。我希望看到具體的數據跟……到底這個因素的分析下面……"],["徐委員長佳青：好。"],["洪委員申翰：才比較能夠給出一個完整的藥方。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["洪委員申翰：第二個是我接下來想跟委員長請教，我們其實在2019遠見雜誌裡面看到一個報導，這報導裡面講到，隨著政府擴大僑生專班的招生，背後開始傳出有人力仲介運作的影子，甚至我們看到國內部分私立學校因為它的招生人數不足，所以它到海外去的時候，需要當地懂這個語言的人幫忙，所以傳出每一位學生要支付1萬元的臺幣給仲介的業者，那是由這個學校跟僑生各付一半。","可能也不只有人力仲介的部分，我們也看到，也有部分的檢舉說，僑委會遴選出來的這些保薦單位，來審核僑生資格的保薦單位，他以簽核每位學生100到200美元，大概3,000元到6,000元臺幣的行情，來收所謂的「咖啡錢」。委員長，對於這些訊息你的看法是什麼？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們其實都有跟學校特別提醒，就是我們絕對禁絕有仲介介入。對於保薦單位，一旦被我們查到一個個案，我們就會取消他的保薦資格。所以這一方面，我們在遴選保薦單位的時候，都會跟他們講得很清楚，他們也要簽下切結書跟保證書。所以我們如果在後端，一旦有人來跟我們檢舉有這樣的個案的時候，我們就跟他解約。"],["洪委員申翰：委員長，第一個，我前面先講人力仲介的部分。人力仲介的部分，因為那是2019的新聞，如果你們有改善，那也讓我們知道你們具體提出改善的做法是什麼、怎麼杜絕這種不當的或非法的人力仲介。他要拿出做法，可能不是只是口頭警告而已。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的，是的。"],["洪委員申翰：實際上面具體的做法是什麼？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們要多管齊下，因為我們有去研究為什麼這些仲介可以做出這些行為，最主要的原因有兩項。第一項是，因為大部分的僑生跟家長，或者外籍生，他們由於語言的程度上面不足，無法了解我們這些方案增生的核心內容，那這些仲介就有機會在這裡操作，把不實的訊息給他們。所以確實有僑生來臺灣以後為什麼離職，跟這個有一點關係，就是說他以為他是來臺灣工作的，但事實上我們明明是讓他來讀書，加上產學合作的實習。因為他資訊的錯誤，他就會說「我期待落差」，所以讀一年就離開。他說：「我不是來工作嗎？你怎麼叫我在學校讀書？」"],["洪委員申翰：所以如果從剛剛那個新聞裡面可以看到的事情是，假設這新聞講的是真的，私校到海外招生，人生地不熟，需要語言的幫忙，照理來說，這個需要語言的服務，或者是語言人才的供給，這是政府可以協助的地方。"],["徐委員長佳青：對，所以……"],["洪委員申翰：因為私校要招生這件事情不是只是私校自己的問題，這也是一個國家的教育政策的問題。"],["徐委員長佳青：正確。"],["洪委員申翰：所以今天從政府的角度，我們應該提供這些私校，你要去海外招生的時候，你的語言協助我們怎麼協助你，你不用自己人生地不熟去找那邊能夠提供你語言的服務，變成他可以在這裡面操弄或中介這些資訊嘛！所以照理來說，僑委會或者我們教育部其實應該跟他們討論說，你們如果去海外招生需要語言人才的話，政府可以協助你嘛！包括你在各地的僑社，或者是相關這些駐點的單位可以協助的部分，這應該我們要主動表達。"],["徐委員長佳青：對。所以我們現在多管齊下，我們多管齊下的做法有以下幾個：第一個，就是我們把所有的資訊做多語化的處理。今天送到越南的一定有越南文，跟華語並列，還有英文，至少有這樣子；到菲律賓，我們也是英文、華語；到了印尼，印尼文、英文、華語；到了柬埔寨、到了泰國，泰語、英語跟華語都是並列。"],["洪委員申翰：委員長，我們希望你們可以提供給我們一個資訊跟報告，就是我們到底怎麼來協助這些……我們國內的單位要到海外去攬才，或者是要來招生的時候，我們怎麼提供給他我們相關的翻譯，或者是語言人才的協助，這是第一個。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["洪委員申翰：第二件事，我必須說，我看到這個「咖啡錢」的部分，我自己會有一個擔心，擔心的點是什麼呢？假如每一個審核他可以收錢的話，如果從這些單位來說，他可能覺得：那我收越多越好；甚至我找到一些不適合來臺灣的，我都可以收錢。對不對？這其實會有一些道德風險哦！"],["徐委員長佳青：沒有錯，所以我們也……"],["洪委員申翰：所以會不會因為他們舉薦一些不一定很適合的，所以也變成你最後留臺跟畢業率會降低？因為他如果協助找了不適合的人來，他可能覺得說「我要來收前面的這一筆咖啡錢」，那變成他不適合來到臺灣以後，你後面的畢業率跟留臺率當然不會高嘛！這前後之間，其實可能會是有邏輯上面的關係。所以我覺得這部分要請僑委會非常非常重視、注意，這件事是絕對不能發生，因為這會有道德風險，甚至會連動到你們事後畢業率、留臺率這些相關的績效，也都會影響的事情啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：是，洪委員你這個提醒我非常同意，因為2019年之前確實有好幾個案例，所以這幾年我們都非常緊密地在監視這些事情。包括我們對保薦單位，他們只能收最多20塊美金，是做什麼呢？因為他們要幫他們郵寄資料，有一些郵資費用；或者他們要幫他們申請表格，有一些印刷費用。除此之外，他們不可以收其他任何的費用。所以我們的保薦單位我自己都親自run了一圈，跟他們做說明會的時候，就有特別強調這些事情。絕大多數保薦單位，我必須說，他們真的是熱心在幫忙我們，而且他們自己都很有錢。"],["洪委員申翰：委員長，我覺得是，他今天在幫忙這個業務上面，合理的成本我們該給他的，就應該給他，讓它變成是合法的，而不是變成私下的、非法的。"],["徐委員長佳青：沒錯。"],["洪委員申翰：所以讓他合法的支出能夠有他獲得的方式，我覺得這是合理的事情。"],["徐委員長佳青：所以我們也會跟學生說，你們最多就付20塊美金的工本費而已。"],["洪委員申翰：對。那他如果說需要什麼業務上面協助的經費，我覺得我們用預算的編列來提供給他，這是合法的，我都贊成。但是如果他自己的成本他覺得無法cover，變成他要去收這些非法的「咖啡錢」的話，那我覺得就很多事情被扭曲了。"],["徐委員長佳青：還有另外一方，就是我們對國內學校也是加強做這樣子的要求，說要簽切結書。你今天要參加這個方案，我一定要禁絕仲介。所以如果你被我抓到，那麼你下一個年度再申請的時候，你可能就不過了。"],["洪委員申翰：委員長，我跟你說，不管是剛才說的人力仲介，或這部分這樣子的佣金，我們會特別關注。我們希望合法的收入可以讓這些協助我們的單位，其實該付給他的就付給他，該得到的就得到，這沒有問題。但是非法的，我覺得我們一定要嚴厲地查緝。"],["徐委員長佳青：有些代辦費我們可以了解……"],["洪委員申翰：是。"],["徐委員長佳青：這個是合理的成本。"],["洪委員申翰：甚至我說他的支出裡面，他真的有些必要支出，我都贊成我們有些可以編列預算、編列經費，來協助他們去cover這些事情，這是合理的、合法的，我覺得沒有問題。但不要落入一個非法的抽佣的狀況……"],["徐委員長佳青：不能商業機制，沒錯。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["洪委員申翰：不要變成非法抽佣，這後面道德風險太大了，會讓你整套機制的設計可能都會歪掉。好，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：好的，謝謝洪委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。這個部分可能沒有那麼簡單，我想請委員長再去了解一下，表面跟實際上在執行的時候，是不是現在有問題，我想這個很容易查得出來。","接下來我們請邱志偉委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.31784375,"end":1.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.70159375,"end":2.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.805968750000002,"end":9.548468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.88596875,"end":36.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.51471875,"end":37.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.13909375,"end":37.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.235968750000005,"end":63.008468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.16034375,"end":65.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.94471875,"end":82.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.88721875,"end":87.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.65471875,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.29159375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.05659375,"end":111.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.26659375000001,"end":115.86096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.02971875,"end":147.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.77596875,"end":120.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.86409375000001,"end":123.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.84659375000001,"end":127.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.53721875000002,"end":136.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.09221875,"end":150.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.47159375,"end":209.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.82596875000002,"end":150.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.46221875,"end":156.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.50534375,"end":177.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.65221875,"end":212.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.01034375,"end":213.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.24221875,"end":219.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.54096875000002,"end":219.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.26659375000003,"end":221.09346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.54909375000003,"end":226.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.81034375000002,"end":224.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.64971875,"end":226.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.83096875,"end":233.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.98596875,"end":248.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.85284375,"end":267.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.69659375,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.43471875000003,"end":251.85659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.15971875,"end":256.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.28034375000004,"end":282.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.43409375000005,"end":287.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.15909375,"end":292.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.60159375,"end":292.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.32284375,"end":292.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.44096875,"end":293.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.33096875,"end":315.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.17471875,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.77721875000003,"end":301.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.32784375,"end":343.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.97721875,"end":317.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.60534375000003,"end":320.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.79846875000004,"end":326.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.63221875000005,"end":338.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.35284375000003,"end":353.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":358.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.51534375,"end":381.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.05659375000005,"end":377.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.09784375000004,"end":417.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.99096875000004,"end":418.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.21034375000005,"end":419.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.93159375000005,"end":422.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.80034375,"end":423.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.72409375,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.13721875000005,"end":427.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.13284375,"end":432.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.77346875,"end":434.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.32159375000003,"end":441.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.85221875,"end":442.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.40471875000003,"end":445.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.06659375000004,"end":447.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.82596875,"end":449.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.22221875,"end":450.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.30221875,"end":454.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.54221875,"end":478.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.51221875000005,"end":457.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.34659375,"end":464.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.65659375,"end":481.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.20471875000004,"end":481.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.06534375,"end":503.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.64284375000005,"end":485.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.93284375,"end":493.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.75034375,"end":500.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.15909375,"end":522.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.45846875,"end":504.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.3290937500001,"end":522.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.70034375,"end":526.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.49721875,"end":526.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.7165937500001,"end":551.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.59659375,"end":539.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.6115937500001,"end":556.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.90659375,"end":553.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.77534375,"end":556.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3828437500001,"end":604.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.5422187500001,"end":562.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.5459687499999,"end":566.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.61659375,"end":573.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.0590937500001,"end":603.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.24034375,"end":630.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.30659375,"end":612.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.0403437500001,"end":615.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.4640937500001,"end":649.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.8797187499999,"end":644.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.74034375,"end":645.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.0603437500001,"end":649.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.7690937500001,"end":663.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.19721875,"end":681.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.9522187500002,"end":667.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.33784375,"end":701.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.40659375,"end":705.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.81096875,"end":714.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.99159375,"end":711.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.4678437500002,"end":714.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.34534375,"end":749.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.36534375,"end":766.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.5678437500001,"end":749.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.61346875,"end":754.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.08096875,"end":761.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.1772187500001,"end":769.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.53534375,"end":769.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.36221875,"end":784.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.40659375,"end":797.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.67596875,"end":787.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.5147187500002,"end":792.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.4422187500002,"end":802.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.1628437500001,"end":814.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.9965937500001,"end":817.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.88659375,"end":816.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.18596875,"end":839.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.87784375,"end":817.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.0278437500001,"end":832.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.2084687500001,"end":835.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":838.70159375,"end":840.33846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.96,"end":2.121,"text":"呃僑務委員長僑務委員長侯委員你好"},{"start":10.066,"end":33.518,"text":"委員長好從這幾年我們看了一下僑委會的預算裡面大家蠻清楚可以看到僑生的業務其實如果扣除一般的行政費用的話其實佔的整體優惠我目前看到的數字是佔了一半以上是的那所以這代表其實僑生來台的政策其實是我們非常非常重要的政策方案尤其是對僑委會裡面來說委員長同意嗎我同意好"},{"start":38.36,"end":64.698,"text":"所以委員長我們一直很看著這個書面的報告其實這個報告裡面也提到讓海外僑生來臺接受教育能促成他們更認識臺灣那甚至把好的人才留下來甚至回到僑居地以後那大概發展出更多的這些效果組織來把臺灣的這個自由民主的價值這大概也是我們俄國外交上面很重要的努力但這個委員長要看一下"},{"start":66.179,"end":73.181,"text":"監察院去年在12月的時候發布的一個調查報告裡面看到其實僑委會從103年開始擴大辦理的這個計畫103是2014年這個產學攜手合作僑生專班那這個畢業率跟留台率都相當偏低"},{"start":87.406,"end":115.379,"text":"那在目前這完成3加7年的喬森總共是110年但他們大概在110年到112年3年的狀況裡面陸續畢業但從這表格裡面可以看到其實畢業率跟留台率都不到五成甚至離五成是有很大一段距離而且我最擔心的事情是看起來這數字是逐年遞減而且遞減的幅度非常大這個委員長這個部分喬森會有提出原因嗎"},{"start":116.555,"end":127.521,"text":"有,我來了以後有認真的去看這些東西那監察院的這個報告我也很認真的去看了它是等於去年出來的報告是在更前一年的那事實上這個計畫從產息合作的專班是2014年就是103年開始當時是有事辦性質"},{"start":135.786,"end":150.027,"text":"所以人數並不是很多然後辦了三年就是開始這三年有畢業生出現了我們有觀察到就是說他們其實最容易離開的就是在高值端的時代"},{"start":150.888,"end":176.883,"text":"所以如果第一年第二年他們不穩定的時候離開你招生進來再多也沒有用所以我們現在是強化在這個高職端因為那時候可能學生的年紀也偏輕然後學校學生的輔導上面就需要給他們更多的援助所以我們現在有兩個措施在加強第一個措施呢通常適應不良的原因是第一個他華語能力還不太夠"},{"start":177.823,"end":183.064,"text":"所以怎麼強化他在來台灣以前他的華語程度就可以補充增進那這樣的話他的溝通能力跟他的適應力就會強化這是第一個第二個呢是我們也要求學校就是說對於學生的這個生活照顧跟輔導上面不要讓學生覺得說很孤單沒有求助的這種狀況那還有一部分是就在最源頭學生就帶著錯誤的資訊進來了"},{"start":207.29,"end":210.62,"text":"這部分我確實不可諱言跟委員講委員長我看了一下這個數據"},{"start":214.316,"end":236.357,"text":"尤其是112年畢業的這一梯幾乎只有四分之一畢業跟留台坦白說我覺得恐怕稱不上是一個成功的計畫甚至會被認為是一個失敗的計畫在這個狀況之下我其實不想多做苛責也許它前面有一個事半的意義在但恐怕它這個不會是單一的原因"},{"start":237.017,"end":254,"text":"尤其是當你的留台率跟畢業率幾乎都不到四分之一我相信這恐怕不是單一原因恐怕是很多原因甚至在計畫一開始設計之初就有一些事情沒弄對不過我跟委員報告我們現在有在追蹤了就是說從106年開始的就2017年開始之後這些近來讀書的學生從三年的高職畢業端去接科技大學現在穩定度就高很多了"},{"start":265.402,"end":293.192,"text":"就是他們不是在高職就離開我想先問委員長說在這個數據之下我們有沒有做相關的比較完整的調查就是他們的調查到底原因各自沒有辦法畢業沒有辦法留台最主要的原因或前三個對他們來講最有影響的原因是我們有沒有這個相關的有有有我們都有跟學校端說為什麼這個學生讀了一年兩年他就離開那這個調查可不可以也許這禮拜可以送到我們辦公室一份我們會把這個資料彙整原因的"},{"start":294.372,"end":296.653,"text":"委員你看一下如果他真的有畢業以後他的留台率其實是很接近的"},{"start":321.227,"end":322.048,"text":"因為這個僑生的業務占僑委會這麼大的比例"},{"start":348.704,"end":348.724,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":365.43,"end":365.65,"text":"主席"},{"start":382.946,"end":397.325,"text":"2019的遠見的雜誌裡面看到一個報導這報導裡面講到其實這個隨著政府擴大僑身專班的招生那背後開始傳出有人力仲介的運作的影子"},{"start":397.985,"end":423.063,"text":"甚至我們看到國內部分私立學校因為他的招生人數不足所以他到海外去的時候需要當地懂這個語言的幫忙所以傳出每一位學生要支付一萬元的台幣給這個仲介的業者那是由這個學校跟僑生各付一半那可能也不只有這個人力仲介的部分我們也看到下一張"},{"start":424.99,"end":445.712,"text":"有部分的檢舉說僑委會領選而出來的這些保健單位來審核僑生資格的保健單位他已簽合每位學生100到200美元大概3000塊到6000塊台幣的行情來收所謂的咖啡錢委員長對於這些訊息你的看法是什麼"},{"start":447.971,"end":464.101,"text":"我們其實都有跟學校特別提醒就是說我們絕對禁絕有仲介介入那對於這個保健單位一旦被我們查到一個個案我們就會取消他的保健資格"},{"start":465.021,"end":475.827,"text":"所以這一方面呢我們在領選保健單位的時候都要跟他們講得很清楚他們也要簽下切結書跟保證書所以我們如果在後端一旦有人來跟我們檢舉有這樣的個案的時候我們就跟他解約"},{"start":478.7,"end":502.828,"text":"委員長第一個我前面先講人力仲介的部分人力仲介的部分因為那是2019的新聞那如果你們有改善那也讓我們知道你們具體提出改善的做法是什麼怎麼杜絕這種不當的或非法的人力仲介他要拿出做法可能不是只是口頭警告而已那實際上面具體的做法是什麼"},{"start":503.228,"end":521.981,"text":"我們要多管齊下因為我們有去研究說為什麼這些仲介可以做出這些行為最主要的原因有兩項第一項就是說因為大部分的僑生跟家長或者外籍生他們由於語言的程度上面不足"},{"start":522.762,"end":535.851,"text":"無法了解我們這些方案真身的核心內容那這些仲介就有機會在這裡操作把不實的訊息給他們所以確實有喬森來台灣以後為什麼離職跟這個有一點關係就是說他以為他是來台灣工作的但事實上我們明明是讓他來讀書加上產學合作的實習那因為他資訊的錯誤他就會說我期待落差所以給我讀一年就離開他說我不是來工作嗎你怎麼叫我再需要讀"},{"start":550.762,"end":572.368,"text":"所以如果從剛剛那個新聞裡面可以看到的事情是假設我們按照那假設這新聞講的是真的是私校到海外招生生生地部手需要語言的幫忙照理來說這個需要語言的服務對或者是語言人才的供給這是政府可以協助的地方對所以因為私校要招生這件事情不是只是私校自己的問題是這也是一個國家的教育政策的問題正確"},{"start":573.248,"end":595.496,"text":"所以今天從政府的角度我們應該提供這些私校你要去海外招生的時候你的語言協助我們怎麼協助你你不用自己人生地不熟去找那邊的這個能夠提供你語言的服務變成他可以在這裡面操弄或中介這些資訊嘛所以這是照理來說這應該是僑友會或者我們教育部其實應該跟他們討論說你們如果需要去海外招生的人才"},{"start":596.076,"end":603.999,"text":"需要語言人才的話政府可以協助你嘛包括你在各地的僑社或者是相關這些駐點的單位可以協助的部分所以我們現在主動表達多管齊下我們多管齊下的做法有幾個以下第一個就是我們把所有的資訊呢做多語化的處理今天送到越南的一定有越南文跟華語並列還有英文至少有這樣子那到菲律賓我們也是英文華語到了印尼印尼文英文華語"},{"start":625.247,"end":626.748,"text":"我看到這個咖啡錢的部分我自己會有一個擔心"},{"start":650.024,"end":662.839,"text":"擔心的點是什麼呢假如每一個審核他可以收錢的話其實如果從這些單位來說他可能覺得那我收越多越好甚至我找到一些不適合來台灣的我都可以收錢對不對"},{"start":664.67,"end":681.468,"text":"這其實會有一些道德風險喔沒有錯所以會不會也是因為其實變成是他們其實包括舉薦的一些其實不一定很適合的所以也變成你最後留台跟畢業率會降低因為他如果協助找了不適合的人來他可能覺得說我要來收前面的這筆咖啡錢"},{"start":682.429,"end":705.539,"text":"那你變成他不適合來到台灣以後你這個後面的畢業率跟留台率當然不會高嘛這前後之間其實可能會是有邏輯上面的關係的所以我覺得這部分要請僑委會非常非常重視注意說這件事是絕對不能發生因為這會有道德風險甚至會連動到你們事後畢業率留台率這些相關的績效也都會影響的事情啊"},{"start":705.799,"end":722.125,"text":"是 洪委員你這個提醒我非常同意因為2019年之前確實有好幾個案例所以這幾年我們都很非常緊密的在監視這些事情然後包括我們對保健單位只能說他們只能收最多20塊錢的美金是做什麼呢因為他們要幫他們郵寄資料有一些郵資費用"},{"start":728.907,"end":748.82,"text":"那或者他們要幫他們申請表格有一些印刷費用除此之外他們不可以收其他任何的費用所以我們的保健單位我自己都親自run了一圈跟他們做說明會的時候就特別強調這些事情那絕大多數保健單位我必須說他們是真的是熱心在幫忙我們而且他們自己都很有錢"},{"start":749.42,"end":775.947,"text":"委員長我覺得是他今天在幫忙這個業務上面合理的成本我們該給他的就應該給他讓他變成是合法的而不是變成私下的非法的所以讓他的合法的支出能夠有能夠他獲得的方式我覺得這是合理的事情所以我們也會跟學生說你們最多就付20塊每天的公本費而已那他如果說需要什麼業務上面的協助的經費如果需要的話我覺得我們用預算的編列來提供給他這是合法的我都贊成"},{"start":776.867,"end":796.805,"text":"但是如果他變成說他自己的成本他覺得無法cover他變成要去收這些非法的咖啡錢的話還有另外一方就是我們對國內學校也是加強做這樣子的要求說要簽卸結書你今天要參加這個方案我一定要敬絕仲介所以如果你被我抓到那麼你下一個年度再申請的時候你可能就"},{"start":798.447,"end":811.241,"text":"這個委員長我跟你說不管是剛才說的人力仲介或這部分這樣子的佣金我們會特別關注那我們希望合法的收入可以讓這些協助我們單位他其實該付給他的就付給他該得到就得到這沒有問題"},{"start":812.102,"end":819.828,"text":"但是非法的我覺得我們一定要嚴厲的打擊有些貸辦費我們可以了解是說對這個是合理的根本甚至的我說他的支出裡面他真的有些必要支出我都贊成我們有些編列預算編列經費來協助他們去cover這些事情這是合理的合法的我覺得沒有問題但不要落入一個非法的抽擁的狀況不能商業機制不要變成非法非法抽擁這後面到的風險太大了會讓你整套的機制的設計可能都會歪掉這樣子好謝謝謝謝洪委員"}]}},{"id":"151426","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151426","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445deba942f8fbb53d50525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c94c39fa9bf89edc1d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:21:45 - 11:32:40","影片長度":"00:10:55","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":655,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:32:40+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:21:45+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":719,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時22分）謝謝主席，我請黃主委。"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：黃委員早。"],["黃委員珊珊：黃主委，我們昨天談到融資公司專法，今天早上台北律師公會也開了一個記者會提出民間的版本，我想這幾天大家都在討論不管是「山道猴子」還是現在的三大租賃公司。三大租賃公司現在已經我國最大的影子銀行，融資公司現在的亂象已經超越當年的銀行卡債風暴，現在它的債務催收、違約金上限，還有利率上限甚至貸款審核的責任都沒有任何辦法可以管。主委，我們認為它是民間借貸，但是它跟銀行高度監管跟高度管控的手法完全不一樣。像今天律師公會提出來的，現在是一張照片就可以核貸，買電冰箱，拍一張電冰箱的照片就可以核貸20萬，這才是今天融資公司法必須存在的原因。主委，我知道你們有很多疑慮，對於這樣的現象，主委有什麼看法？憑一張照片可以貸款20萬！買一個冰箱可以貸款20萬！這是什麼樣的融資公司？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實委員您指正得很對，因為傳統上銀行授信應該是依財產的價值、loan to value（信貸比），它那個有點是應收債權收買。我們已經要求租賃公會去訂定內部融資標準，不可以超過物的價值。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以主委，我們現在要求租賃公司做這件事，現在給它自律，我們也給它什麼，但是一樣嘛，沒有法可管！所以它不這麼做、小型公司不這麼做，也沒輒！","我們現在對融資公司的疑慮就幾樣：第一個，很寬鬆的核貸，年輕人說他月薪3萬塊，貸款38萬，最後實質利率加手續費加違約金，還加什麼審核費，加一加，38萬要還到52萬，他實拿只有30萬，然後最重要的是，算出來的實質利率高達51%，這才是我們今天碰到的問題。第二個，融資公司要求客戶簽空白本票，在金額上和利率上都是空白，如果是銀行，不可能有這種事！另外，所有的費用以手續費、違約金來囊括，所以利率這件事情也逃脫了。最後就是對業務員和催收人員沒有任何資格限制，對於債務催收行為，不管他用什麼方式，都不像銀行有一定的限制，這些才是要有專法的目標。","主委，我知道你們很有疑慮，但是這些東西可能是專法必須要去規範的，不管你是用各種方式，用公會自律，或者是用上市（櫃）公司來管這三大家，但是融資公司還是臺灣很大的痛！所以主委，我希望聽到的是，在您或下一個金管會主委任內，融資公司專法應該是中華民國政府無可迴避的責任，你同意嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：您提的這些問題目前都是用要求它自律的方式去處理，委員如果要把它提升到法律的位階，我昨天有跟大家報告，我說立法技術上可能有些地方要去框定……"],["黃委員珊珊：可以討論，但是不能迴避我們的責任。"],["黃主任委員天牧：一開始您第一天質詢我的時候，我記得很清楚，你講得很明確，你說你要求至少要把最低的標準訂出來。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，就是剛剛講的，該怎麼樣審核？3萬塊收入的人，怎麼會讓他每個月要負擔到沒有飯吃的程度？這種核貸的方式大有問題！"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分就是剛剛講的，融資公司常常用本票去執行債務人的資產，然後就會發生今天很多委員都在提的，不管是現在執行法院因為最高法院有相關的解釋了，所以保險成為被執行的標的，保險的準備金、保單準備金成為所謂債務人的資產，是可以被強制執行的。我也是上任之後第一時間就跟保險局討論這件事情，因為有太多民眾，尤其是現在的行政執行，欠稅的人很多保單都被中止了。過程中其實我們發現一個比較嚴重的，如果是他自己儲蓄型或投資型的保單大概沒什麼問題，比較嚴重的是發生在健康險、防癌險、醫療險，這兩天看到大家在討論介入權，介入權是在受益人權益的保障，但我今天要討論的是，不管受益人是不是要保人，比較嚴重的是被保險人的權益有沒有被保障。今天我幫我的小孩買一個醫療險、買一個防癌險，等到有一天我欠錢了，然後他的防癌險被解除，這種保險的準備金沒有很多……"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有錯！"],["黃委員珊珊：上次我們看到保險局舉的例子很有趣，他可能是欠稅還是欠費，結果防癌險解約金8,000塊也被執行掉！這種亂象不單單只是受益人的介入權可以處理的。所以主委還有局長，健康險才是我認為在保險要被強制執行的標的上面應該要排除的。這個案子我找過司法院民事廳來討論，他說他們沒有問題，只要修法；我問他是要修強制執行法，還是要修保險法？他們建議修保險法。所以局長跟主委，我想知道你們的意見。我們能夠把醫療險、健康險這些排除在強制執行之外嗎？有沒有可能在這個上面給被保險人多一些保障？"],["黃主任委員天牧：先請局長表示意見，我待會兒再講。"],["施局長瓊華：跟委員報告，其實我們之前也有研議過是不是要修保險法，那時外界的意見很分歧，後來我們才暫停。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以啊，民事廳說不要修我的強執法，你們修你們的保險法，你們要修保險法外界又有很多意見，那請問到底要修哪個法？"],["施局長瓊華：我們本來是建議，因為現在行政法院像臺北行政法院……"],["黃委員珊珊：行政法院基本上就是解約了啦！然後強制執行處是看情況，還會請當事人去表示一下意見，問題就是我剛剛講了，那些儲蓄險和投資型保單我沒什麼意見，不管受益人有沒有介入權，它都是他的權益……"],["施局長瓊華：我們本來想……"],["黃委員珊珊：但是健康險、防癌險、醫療險，這些險我希望能夠基本做到保護這個被保險人應有的權益而不會受影響，可以吧？"],["施局長瓊華：對，這個部分其實我們原來是建議司法院能夠做一個指導原則，因為……"],["黃委員珊珊：司法院就是推給你們啊！說由保險局來認定。"],["施局長瓊華：我們可以建議……"],["黃委員珊珊：我今天要說的是，這件事情已經成為很多民眾的困擾，這件事情應該要讓基本的保障不要受到影響，也就是說，我欠債，但是不會影響我幫我孩子買了20年的防癌險保單啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，我跟你報告，我自己做保險監理官那麼久，我對保險的社會安全網的價值非常在乎，所以我很同意你的想法，有些保單你去強制執行，可是這種人身的、健康的或他將來養老的，這是一個基本的人權，我覺得如果司法院不做，我們做！"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝主委！我非常高興聽到這句話。","接下來還有另外一個問題，其實我覺得我們在財委會都非常關心每一個人民的權利跟義務，我們在打詐有所謂的警示帳戶。如果已經有錢成立了或者是能證明他是人頭、不是故意的，可能他會被不起訴，不起訴之後警示帳戶就會被取消，那他就可以使用。但是現在新的規定是有所謂的告誡帳戶，他可能也是人頭戶，他可能也被不起訴，但到目前為止，告誡帳戶並無直接拿不起訴處分解除告誡的程序，沒有這個救濟管道，主委了解嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我知道，這中間有一個就是……"],["黃委員珊珊：有一個很大的gap。"],["黃主任委員天牧：就是你要配合檢調強制執行還是兼顧人的這些……"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，我的意思是說警示帳戶只要拿著不起訴處分書就可以解除，但是我拿了不起訴處分書告誡帳戶還不一定能解除，我還要去打官司說我是被騙的、我是被害人，錢進來我沒有轉出去。他被知誡，告誡雖然他還可以用，但他的帳戶很難用。告誡帳戶目前為止的機制，並沒有讓他可以直接從警察機關來做……因為不起訴處分而讓他能夠解除的程序。我認為目前為止洗防法有告誡帳戶新的機制，但是忘記加入怎麼解除的程序規定，所以我希望金管會去研議一下有關告誡帳戶之後是不是跟警示帳戶一樣直接拿不起訴處分書就可以解除的程序，主委了解我的意思嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我了解，我想您垂詢的有道理，我覺得拿捏要均衡。"],["黃委員珊珊：這兩個不能有不一樣的處分。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，我知道。"],["黃委員珊珊：你因為是警示然後最後給我告誡，結果警示解除了告誡還不一定解除，這是什麼狀況？如果不起訴處分書可以解除警示不能解除告誡，我實在是不知道……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們去了解一下不同帳戶之間處理的程序跟標準一不一樣再去調和。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我希望如果人民的權利義務發生了問題，我們發現了問題就應該幫他們解決，尤其是保險現在成為執行標的這件事情，已經造成了大部分、很多很多包括執行機關、保險公司、民眾的困擾，他可能是20年前買的保險，根本不知道自己20年後會欠債。基本的保障我們不應該剝奪，保障債權權益的同時也要保障債務人基本的生活保障。謝謝主委！"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員質詢。","接下來我們請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.796593750000003,"end":14.880968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.67409375,"end":17.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.981593750000002,"end":19.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.94346875,"end":20.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.938468750000002,"end":25.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.989093750000002,"end":25.461593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.461593750000002,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.512218750000002,"end":25.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.68096875,"end":26.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.06909375,"end":33.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.439093750000005,"end":35.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.85659375,"end":42.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.977843750000005,"end":46.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.74096875,"end":62.704718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.143468750000004,"end":63.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.88596875,"end":66.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.92346875,"end":68.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.69534375,"end":71.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.30659375,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.87159375,"end":75.58034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.79971875000001,"end":77.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.07784375,"end":79.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.22096875000001,"end":81.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.95909375000001,"end":83.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.89971875,"end":85.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.04284375,"end":87.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.06784375000001,"end":89.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.45159375,"end":90.58221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.93659375,"end":94.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.08784375,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.96409375,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.31346875000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.55784375,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.03721875000001,"end":133.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.76534375,"end":136.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.14034375,"end":148.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.08784375000002,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.19721875000002,"end":152.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.95221875000001,"end":156.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.90096875,"end":159.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.85409375,"end":182.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.66909375,"end":187.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.93409375000002,"end":189.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.22909375,"end":205.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.93971875000003,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.30659375000002,"end":209.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.10784375,"end":213.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.39846875,"end":215.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.96346875,"end":216.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.24596875,"end":228.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.70846875,"end":228.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.23159375,"end":228.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.97409375,"end":239.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.03721875000002,"end":230.81346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.13284375,"end":250.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.55471875,"end":239.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.10159375,"end":250.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.13534375,"end":250.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.43909375,"end":254.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.45596875,"end":250.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.48471875,"end":256.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.23971875,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.22971875,"end":275.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.63346875,"end":281.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.77596875,"end":284.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.77971875000003,"end":285.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.18034375,"end":288.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.06596875,"end":289.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.67346875000004,"end":296.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.04784375,"end":302.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.53221875,"end":308.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.01221875000005,"end":310.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.17221875,"end":313.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.46721875000003,"end":314.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.83409375,"end":316.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.21784375000004,"end":318.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.86721875,"end":323.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.92971875,"end":325.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.12346875000003,"end":335.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.16409375,"end":338.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.39159375,"end":338.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.42096875000004,"end":340.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.72034375000004,"end":342.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.04909375,"end":344.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.65221875000003,"end":347.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.33096875,"end":350.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.09846875,"end":361.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.57784375,"end":367.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.17596875000004,"end":376.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.39409375,"end":381.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.96284375000005,"end":384.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.62471875,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.96471875000003,"end":403.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.47846875000005,"end":415.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.42221875,"end":413.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.10534375000003,"end":420.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.15596875,"end":415.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.97784375000003,"end":422.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.10409375,"end":438.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.44096875,"end":427.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.89659375,"end":428.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.56596875,"end":437.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.98346875000004,"end":448.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.05096875000004,"end":439.20284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.12159375000005,"end":446.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.61909375000005,"end":463.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.65284375000005,"end":450.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.47909375,"end":453.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.87409375000004,"end":468.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.68346875000003,"end":484.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.00721875000005,"end":476.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.02284375000005,"end":498.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.97409375,"end":506.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.48346875000004,"end":508.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.14971875000003,"end":510.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.75284375,"end":514.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.0390937500001,"end":518.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.4140937500001,"end":525.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.05846875,"end":526.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.45909375,"end":528.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.9228437500001,"end":530.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.13784375,"end":531.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.96471875,"end":541.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.11534375,"end":540.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.0265937500001,"end":578.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.36659375,"end":579.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.48034375,"end":583.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.2647187499999,"end":584.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.96909375,"end":586.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.1797187500001,"end":592.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.6259687500001,"end":594.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.97596875,"end":598.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.1103437500001,"end":600.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.03846875,"end":600.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.7978437500001,"end":602.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.8315937500001,"end":608.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.8134687500001,"end":609.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.1340937500001,"end":611.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.4965937500001,"end":613.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.97721875,"end":620.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.60096875,"end":618.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.03534375,"end":623.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.38909375,"end":653.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.09346875,"end":654.1397187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.754,"end":19.401,"text":"有請黃主委。有請黃主委。"},{"start":26.204,"end":45.745,"text":"我們昨天談到的是融資公司專法那今天早上臺北律師公會也開了一個記者會他們也提出了民間的版本那我想這幾天大家都在討論不管是山道猴子還是說現在的三大租賃公司他們現在已經是我國最大的銀子銀行"},{"start":46.886,"end":73.863,"text":"那融資公司現在的亂象已經超越當年的銀行卡債的風暴那現在它的債務吹收違約金的上限還有利率的上限甚至貸款審核的責任都沒有任何辦法可以管主委這是我們認為它是民間借貸但是它跟我們銀行高度監管跟高度管控的這樣的手法完全不一樣"},{"start":75.224,"end":104.174,"text":"現在今天像律師公會他們提出來的現在是一張照片就可以核代買一個電冰箱拍一張電冰箱的照片就可以核代20萬這才是今天融資公司法必須有存在的必要性主委我知道你們有很多疑慮對於這樣的現象主委有什麼看法一張照片可以貸款20萬一個買一個冰箱可以貸款20萬這是什麼樣的融資公司"},{"start":104.634,"end":121.874,"text":"對,其實委員您指正的很對,因為傳統上銀行受信應該是以那個財產的價值,long to value,信貸比,他那個有點是不動,優先收債權收買,我們已經要求主任工會去訂內部融資的標準,不可以超過物的價值。"},{"start":122.635,"end":148.215,"text":"所以主委我們現在要求租賃公司做這件事他們現在給他資率我們也給他什麼但是一樣嘛沒有法可管所以他不這麼做小型的公司不這麼做也沒轍我們現在對融資公司的疑慮就幾樣第一個很寬鬆的核貸年輕人說他月薪3萬塊貸款38萬最後實質利率加手續費加什麼違約金加什麼還超什麼審核費加一加"},{"start":149.156,"end":150.698,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":167.58,"end":189.215,"text":"另外所有的費用以手續費違約金來囊括所以把利率這件事情也逃脫了那最後就是對業務員對於催收委員沒有任何資格限制對於債務催收的行為不管他用什麼方式都不像銀行我們有一定的限制這些才是要有專法的目標"},{"start":190.316,"end":216.064,"text":"主委我知道你們還有疑慮但是這件東西可能是專法必須要去規範的不管你是用各種方式用公會自律或者是用上市櫃公司來管這三大家但是融資公司還是台灣很大的痛啊所以主委我希望聽到的是在您任內或下一個金管會主委融資公司專法應該是中華民國政府無可迴避的責任你同意嗎"},{"start":217.284,"end":238.778,"text":"我想您提的幾個問題目前都是用要求他自立的方式處理那委員如果要用提升法律的位階我昨天有跟大家報告說立法技術上可能有些地方要去框定可以討論但是不能迴避什麼的責任我想一開始您第一天質詢我我記得很清楚你講得很明確你說你至少要求我有一些最低的標準要定出來"},{"start":239.138,"end":240.679,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。"},{"start":257.347,"end":285.573,"text":"然後就會發生今天很多委員都在提的很多的不管是現在執行法院因為我們最高法院有相關的解釋了所以保險成為被執行的標的保險的準備金保障準備金成為所謂在日人的資產是可以被強制執行的我也是上任之後第一時間就跟保險局討論這件事情因為有太多的民眾尤其是現在行政執行欠稅的人"},{"start":286.213,"end":295.546,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":302.591,"end":325.571,"text":"那我這兩天看到大家在討論介入權介入權是在受益人的權益的保障但是我今天要討論的是不管受益人是不是要保人比較嚴重的是被保險人他的權益有沒有被保障今天我幫我的小孩買一個醫療險買一個防癌險等到有一天我欠錢了"},{"start":326.252,"end":342.058,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":351.161,"end":367.248,"text":"健康險才是我認為在保險要被強制執行的標的上面應該要排除這個案子我找過司法院民事廳來討論他說他們沒有問題只要修法那我問他是要修強制執行法還是要修保險法他們建議修保險法"},{"start":368.268,"end":384.217,"text":"所以局長跟主委我想知道你們的意見我們能夠把醫療險、健康險的這些排除在強制執行之外嗎有沒有可能在這個上面對被保險人多一些的保障局長你要先表示一下我待會再表示"},{"start":386.269,"end":414.845,"text":"根文報告其實我們之前也有研議過是不是要修保險法那時候大概外界的意見很分歧後來我們才暫停啦所以啊對民視聽說不要修我的強制法你們修你們的保險法而且說保險法外界有很多意見那請問到底要修哪個法那我們本來是建議說因為現在有像行政法院或者是那個行政法院像臺北行政法院基本上就是解約了啦"},{"start":415.445,"end":438.064,"text":"然後強制執行處都看情況還會請當事人來表示一下意見問題就是我剛剛講了那些儲蓄險跟投資型保單我沒什麼意見不管受益者他有沒有介入權他都是他的權益但是健康險、防白險、醫療險這些險我希望他能夠基本做到保護這個被保險人他應該有的權益而不會受影響"},{"start":439.925,"end":462.754,"text":"對這個部分其實我們原來是建議那個司法院能夠做一個指導原則啦因為司法院就推給你們啊有保險局來認定我們今天要說的是這件事情已經成為很多民眾的困擾這件事情應該要讓基本的保障不要受到影響就也就是說我現在但是不會影響我孩子我幫我孩子買了20年的妨礙險保單"},{"start":466.096,"end":482.942,"text":"我自己做保險監理官那麼久我對保險的社會安全網的價值我非常在乎所以我很同意你的想法有些保單你去強制執行可是這種人身的健康的或他將來養老的這是一個基本的人權我覺得如果司法院不做我們做"},{"start":484.002,"end":509.988,"text":"謝謝主委我非常高興聽到這句話接下來還有另外一個問題其實我覺得我們在財委會都非常關心每一個人民的權利跟義務接下來就是我們在所謂打仗有所謂的警示賬戶警示賬戶如果他已經有錢成立了或者是他證明他是人頭他不是故意的可能他會被不起訴不起訴之後警示賬戶就會被取消那他就可以使用"},{"start":510.968,"end":528.734,"text":"但是現在有新的規定是有所謂的告誡賬戶他可能也是人頭戶他可能也被不起訴但是告誡賬戶目前為止沒有直接可以拿不起訴處分解除他的告誡的程序沒有這個救濟管道主有了解嗎?"},{"start":531.432,"end":556.646,"text":"我知道這中間有一個就是有一個很大的gap就是你要配合檢調去強制執行還是兼顧人的這些是的我的意思是說警示賬戶只要拿著不起訴處分書就可以解除但是告誡賬戶我拿了不起訴處分書還不一定能解除我還要去打個官司說我是被騙的我是被害人我沒有我錢進來我沒有轉出去這些事我被告誡"},{"start":557.406,"end":579.712,"text":"告誡雖然他還可以用但是他的賬戶很難用可是告誡賬戶目前為止的機制並沒有讓他直接可以從警察機關來做因為不起訴處分而讓他能夠解除這樣的程序我認為目前為止洗房法有這樣子告誡賬戶的新的機制但是忘記了怎麼解除他的程序"},{"start":580.853,"end":592.709,"text":"規定沒有加進去所以我希望金管會去研議一下有關告誡賬戶之後是不是跟警示賬戶一樣他有一個直接拿不起訴處分書就可以解除的程序"},{"start":593.666,"end":619.393,"text":"主委了解我的意思嗎?我了解我想您垂詢的有道理我覺得這兩個不能一樣的處分嘛你因為是警示然後最後給我告誡結果警示解除了告誡還不一定解除這是什麼狀況勒?是如果不寫出處分書可以解除警示不能解除告誡我實在是不知道我們了解一下不同帳戶之間處理的程序跟標準一不一樣那去做調和"},{"start":620.053,"end":622.696,"text":"所以我希望人民的權利義務我們發聲了"},{"start":624.42,"end":624.58,"text":"謝謝主委謝謝委員"}]}},{"id":"151425","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151425","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4450a4f90489299810004d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c9462d4978bd81395185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:24:22 - 11:31:24","影片長度":"00:07:02","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":422,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:31:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:24:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1044,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時24分）謝謝主席，我請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長應該知道，這幾天桃園的居民非常崩潰，因為到今天早上連續三天的大停電，而且今天早上的停電範圍將近一萬戶，幾乎已經是分區在停電。請問部長，就你所掌握的狀況，為什麼桃園這幾天連續的停電、跳電？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，今天早上確實委員也看到有大雷雨，大雷雨會對地方的配電設備等等……"],["王委員鴻薇：臺北有沒有大雷雨？"],["王部長美花：臺北也有大雷雨。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以只要有大雷雨，任何地方是不是都可能發生跳電？"],["王部長美花：大雷雨會對地方到家戶的配電設施……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，今天早上有大雷雨，請問昨天晚上跟前天晚上有大雷雨嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有大雷雨。"],["王委員鴻薇：有小動物？"],["王部長美花：不是，但確實一個是纜線的跳脫，一個是設備的問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：為何統統發生在桃園？今天如果發生在臺北，我們也受不了啊！"],["王部長美花：昨天的部分確實在桃園，但這個確實是設備……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們有很多的理由！連續三天跳電，請問部長要不要跟桃園的居民道歉？"],["王部長美花：有的，真的很抱歉，台電在第一時間就跟桃園致歉，對於這樣的一個壞掉，確實它要更換的時間也比較長一點。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，我們可不可以在這邊保證，到今天早上為止，這個連續停電可以結束了，桃園近期之內不會再發生這樣的大停電，可以保證嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個不能用保證；但是發生設備損害時，我們一定會用最快的速度來修復，我想今天早上委員也講了，這個部分目前都已經恢復了……"],["王委員鴻薇：當然要恢復啊！所以，我們一再強調在電線的韌性上面，你們現在也沒有辦法做到嗎？你們說這不是缺電的問題，可是電網韌性還是有問題啊！尤其桃園這樣子連續三天，不知道是第四度還第五度，已經數不清楚了，我覺得在這一點，對桃園居民是非常非常的不公平。","另外，剛才林德福委員也特別提到，你們剛剛才調整電價，就發生連續的大停電；本席剛剛還在財委會詢問主計長，主計處說我們現在的通膨壓力當然有來自於電價的上漲，而在通膨壓力之下，尤其是房租部分，到3月份為止，我們的房租已經連續8個月都超過2%，這是過去從沒有發生過的。除了這樣的通膨壓力，還有升息的問題，大家都知道，央行升息就是因為你漲電價嘛！所以我們一再講，錯誤的能源政策一定要改弦更張，一定要更動，當然你馬上就要離開經濟部，我希望未來的新政府，應該針對我們的能源政策全面去做檢討。","另外，你們今天是做核能發電後端營運基金的報告，請問何時啟動核三廠的核廢料處置？因為你們要讓它除役，什麼時候會啟動核三廠核廢料處置？"],["許副總經理永輝：因為核三廠目前使用過核燃料的部分……"],["王委員鴻薇：不多嘛，對不對？"],["許副總經理永輝：對，它大概還有5年的容量，所以我們大概……"],["王委員鴻薇：包含一、二號機組都還有5年容量，是吧？"],["許副總經理永輝：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以現在不需要啟動核三廠？這也就是我們為什麼希望核電延役，現在全世界的潮流都是如此，美國延役，日本延役，美國有些電廠還要把它延到80年，當然他們也要經過一些評估。所以我們一再地講，你們常拿核二廠核燃料棒的乾式貯存槽，說新北市政府怎麼樣、怎麼樣，可是剛才也講了，核三廠的核燃料貯存槽根本還沒有滿，所以核三廠其實是可以做為你們延役的開始，可是為什麼不做呢？"],["許副總經理永輝：報告委員，核三廠雖然有5年，可是延役的部分還是需要後面的乾貯設施。"],["王委員鴻薇：你現在就可以開始做。所以你的意思是你根本不用去做核三廠的核廢料處置。"],["許副總經理永輝：要，還是要。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是我們現在整個能源結構極不穩定，而且現在看起來都要調高電價的狀況下，我在這邊還是重申，我不曉得部長或是你們會不會有職務的調動，但我還是覺得你們能夠以民生為念，以我們的產業發展為念，可以開始啟動這個核電廠的延役計畫。"],["許副總經理永輝：報告委員，說實在的，延役的部分還是要有法規……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們有修法，行政院也可以提出版本啊！立法院沒有修法，你們也在做，我們現在還提了修法，很多人說我們修法是幫你們解套，其實我覺得我們是幫全臺灣人解套！我們今天不需要為了什麼政治之爭、政黨之爭，我相信部長自己也聽到太多產業界的意見。到現在為止，如果我們還不做一些更動，還不做一些改變，還要死守著反核神主牌，還要死守2025非核家園的神主牌，那麼全臺灣要付出慘痛的代價！即便部長即將卸任，但本席仍然要苦口婆心的，希望你們能夠動念一下，為整個產業發展及民生用電來考量，我們現在的電價如果按照這樣走下去，電價只會上漲，整個通膨只會加重，所有的租屋族只會苦不堪言！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請洪孟楷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":1.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.08846875,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.535343750000003,"end":13.497218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.57659375,"end":23.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.297218750000003,"end":31.890968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.346593750000004,"end":35.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.548468750000005,"end":37.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.06721875,"end":43.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.02846875,"end":44.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.51346875,"end":44.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.54721875,"end":55.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.909093750000004,"end":51.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.807218750000004,"end":55.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.157218750000006,"end":57.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.57471875,"end":61.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.60784375,"end":61.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.62471875000001,"end":66.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.93221875,"end":65.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.43409375,"end":68.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.46784375,"end":67.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.83034375,"end":71.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.53034375,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.02346875,"end":75.20909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.06971875,"end":76.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.10346875,"end":77.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.60971875,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.79096875,"end":86.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.90346875,"end":89.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.05909375,"end":94.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.02471875,"end":94.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.15971875000001,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.49721875,"end":94.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.64909375,"end":94.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.96971875000001,"end":96.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.87659375000001,"end":96.89346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.12971875000001,"end":99.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.64409375000001,"end":100.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.96034375,"end":101.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.19221875000001,"end":102.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.25971875,"end":115.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.70096875,"end":113.76846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.76846875000001,"end":114.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.08909375,"end":114.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.62471875000001,"end":116.73846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.16034375000001,"end":118.39221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.05034375000001,"end":120.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.85596875,"end":122.83034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.35346875,"end":124.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.09159375,"end":125.98596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.49221875,"end":130.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.25096875,"end":132.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.33534375000002,"end":131.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.71909375,"end":144.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.03096875,"end":136.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.76784375,"end":155.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.78721875000002,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.05909375000002,"end":178.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.87221875,"end":237.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.71534375000002,"end":239.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.66846875000002,"end":243.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.14471875,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.20784375000002,"end":248.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.71784375000001,"end":253.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.88659375,"end":249.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.84784375,"end":256.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.54784375,"end":256.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.20596875,"end":257.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.71221875000003,"end":258.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.45471875000004,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.18846875,"end":261.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.26346875,"end":270.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.16159375,"end":299.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.62971875,"end":301.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.36346875000004,"end":306.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.81846875,"end":310.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.33284375,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.77971875000003,"end":312.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.00221875,"end":319.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.76159375000003,"end":320.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.47346875,"end":327.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.90284375000005,"end":337.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.42534375,"end":341.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.46284375000005,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.02784375000005,"end":351.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.20409375,"end":350.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.42346875000004,"end":350.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.52471875000003,"end":350.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.90846875,"end":352.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.12784375,"end":376.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.14471875000004,"end":353.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.96784375000004,"end":415.81409375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":13.263,"text":"王鴻薇委員請做詢答好謝謝主席我請王部長我們再請王部長"},{"start":20.177,"end":30.629,"text":"您應該知道這幾天桃園的居民非常崩潰因為到今天早上連續三天的大停電而且今天早上的停電範圍將近一萬戶幾乎已經是分區在停電"},{"start":36.921,"end":55.627,"text":"請問一下部長你所掌握的狀況為什麼桃園這幾天連續的在停電、跳電?跟委員報告今天早上確實我也看到那個有大雷雨大雷雨對那這個大雷雨會對地方的配電的這些設備等台北有沒有大雷雨?"},{"start":56.427,"end":74.857,"text":"臺北也有大雷雨所以只要有大雷雨任何地方都可能發生跳電是不是大雷雨會對地方到家戶的這些好那我想請問今天早上大雷雨前天晚上大前天晚上應該是昨天晚上跟在前天晚上有大雷雨嗎"},{"start":76.084,"end":77.184,"text":"陸小動物為何通通發生在桃園昨天的部分確實在桃園部長你們有很多的理由我請問部長你要不要跟桃園的居民"},{"start":100.01,"end":101.05,"text":"說道歉,連續3天。"},{"start":119.116,"end":144.144,"text":"在這邊保證只要今天早上為止這個停電可以結束了一個連續桃園不會在近期之內再發生這樣的大規模停電可以保證嗎這個不能用保證但是我們發生這個設備損壞我們一定會用最快的速度來修復那我想今天早上委員也講了那這個目前都已經恢復了是"},{"start":144.944,"end":154.467,"text":"當然要恢復啊所以也就是說我們一再說要強調我們的一個就是在電線的韌性上面你們現在也沒有辦法做到嗎這不是缺電的問題可是問題電網韌性還是有問題啊在桃園集中這樣子連續三天不知道是第四度還第五度已經數不清楚了所以我覺得在這一點對桃園居民是非常非常的不公平"},{"start":171.132,"end":176.857,"text":"那另外剛才林德福委員也特別提到其實尤其你們剛剛調整電價然後就發生連續的大停電剛才我在我們的財委會還在問主計長主計處在講說我們現在的通膨壓力當然有來自於電價的上漲"},{"start":190.589,"end":195.878,"text":"而我們現在通膨壓力下其實有關於房租我們房租已經連續8個月到3月份連續8個月都超過2%這是過去從來沒有發生過的"},{"start":203.342,"end":222.73,"text":"所以也就是這樣通膨壓力還有升息大家也知道央行升息就為了為了你漲電價嘛所以我們一直在講錯誤的能源政策一定要改弦易張一定要跟動當然你馬上要離開經濟部我希望未來的新政府應該針對我們的能源政策應該做全面的去做檢討那另外請教部長我們今天"},{"start":229.472,"end":241.197,"text":"你們是核能發電的後端營運基金報告請問一下你們何時會啟動核三廠的核廢料處置因為你們要讓他除疫呀什麼時候會啟動核三廠核廢料處置"},{"start":245.287,"end":270.364,"text":"因為核三廠它目前的用過核燃料的部分不多嘛 對不對對它大概還有5年的容量所以我們大概包含一二號機組都還有5年容量對是嗎對所以現在不需要啟動核三廠所以這就是部長啊我們為什麼在講說我們希望核電延益核電延益現在全世界潮流都是如此"},{"start":271.244,"end":277.087,"text":"美國研議日本研議美國現在有些電廠還要把它延到80年那當然他們會要經過一些評估所以我們一直在講你們常常用核二廠說哎呀這個核燃料棒啊這個呃這個呃他的該市儲存潮那每次說啊新北市政府怎麼樣怎麼樣問題可是核三廠剛才也講核三廠的核燃料標根本沒有滿"},{"start":294.295,"end":316.605,"text":"所以核三廠其實是可以在你們研議的開始可是為什麼不做呢?是 發言委員基本上如果說核三廠雖然它只有5年可是我研議的部分你還是需要後面的你現在就可以開始開始來做所以我就說你到現在你的意思說你根本不用去做核三廠的核廢料處置"},{"start":317.805,"end":332.048,"text":"但是在我們現在整個的電源的就整個能源結構極不穩定而且現在看起來都要調高電價的一個狀況之下我在這邊還是重申雖然部長或者也許你們我不曉得會不會有職務的調動我還是覺得你們能夠以民生為念"},{"start":338.49,"end":362.915,"text":"以我們的產業發展為念能夠把這個核電廠可以開始啟動研議計劃。我們有修法呀我們有修法你們行政院也可以提出版本啊你們行政院如果要做的話也不需要我們立法院沒有修法你們也在做現在我們還有修法啊很多人還說我們修法是幫你們解套其實我覺得我是幫全台灣人解套啊"},{"start":367.276,"end":385.695,"text":"是不是我們今天不必不需要為了什麼政治之爭、政黨之爭而是我相信部長自己本身也提到太多產業界的意見了吧到現在為止如果我們還不做一些更動我們還不能夠做一些改變還要死守著反核神主白"},{"start":386.235,"end":414.789,"text":"還要死守住2025非核家園的神主牌那麼全台灣要付出慘痛的代價這個我時間到了我希望即便是在部長即將卸任仍然苦口婆心今天你們如果能夠動念一下能夠為整個的產業發展民生用電我們現在的電價如果按照這樣走下去電價只會上漲然後我們整個通膨只會加重然後我們的所有的租屋族只會苦不堪言謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151424","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151424","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4451842fd922665190857f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c946c7b4370730bc6965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"11:24:24 - 11:28:49","影片長度":"00:04:25","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":265,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:28:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:24:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":544,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時24分）謝謝主席，請劉次長與鄭署長。"],["主席：請次長及署長。"],["蔡委員其昌：謝謝兩位，時間只有4分鐘，非常的短暫。首先要謝謝召委安排了國民體育法的修法，雖然今天沒有逐條，但是需要解決的問題很著急，還是要趕快解決。之前本席在立法院召開過公聽會，也謝謝署長的參加，這個公聽會要立即解決的是什麼問題呢？我們要解決的是國家代表隊選手保險的問題。大家都知道臺灣的商業保險對於國家代表隊，特別是職業選手被國家徵召為國家代表隊，因為他們都有薪資，我們要保障這些職業選手的權益，不會因為國家徵召參加比賽受了傷，回去之後影響到他的職業生涯，所以保險就顯得特別重要。大家也在媒體上看到，包括職棒與職籃是目前最重要的，我先請問署長，今年接下來有多少重大的國際比賽需要徵召職業選手？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們預計除了威廉瓊斯杯之外，當然最重要的還是棒球12強。"],["蔡委員其昌：主要是籃球與棒球，還有排球或其他嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實教育部這邊已經在擬定行政規則，依照委員當時在公聽會的建議，補足這個薪資的部分。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，謝謝。如同剛剛署長所講的，因為國際比賽在即，我們無法等到立法院修完國體法並三讀通過之後，這是大家今年將要面臨到的問題，對於今年被國家徵召的這些職業選手，我們要有立即的補救措施，所以我要特別謝謝鄭署長在公聽會勇於承擔。剛剛教育部的同仁也告訴我，今天部長已經簽准透過教育部體育署補助國家代表隊培訓或參賽短期失能保險給付與薪資差額要點，這個真是落落長！也就是透過薪資差額要點，我們來補足今年商業保險對職業選手保障不足的部分，由這個辦法來補足，應該是這樣，沒有錯吧？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，在部長核定之後，接下來就是公告，不只是今年，在找到更好的方法之前，我們都會用這個要點來補足。"],["蔡委員其昌：我今天沒有做提案說明是因為國體法的修法緩不濟急，在我提出的修法中對於你們的建議都支持，所以我透過臨時提案也講了，等一下我會再說明。我希望能夠透過今天通過的這個辦法，包括瓊斯盃籃球、包括今年年底的棒球12強，職業選手的保險問題可以盡速解決。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們涵蓋的是所有有薪資合約的，包括甲級……"],["蔡委員其昌：有薪資合約的職業選手？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：這些問題在今年的比賽前就可以解決了，至於長期要怎麼處理，我們還是回到修法的程序給予職業選手應有的保障，這是我們大概的方向。","第二個問題，賴總統要支持體育部的成立，一方面我身為立法委員、二方面我也是體育界人士，所以我非常支持國家對於體育的重視。雖然賴總統還沒有上任，而且要成立一個部會可說是茲事體大，因為它會涉及到修法、人員的編制，要多少部會、要如何調整，其實很難短期一下子就完成。但是總統既然有這樣的政見與宣示，所以教育部也可以開始著手進行規劃，次長，有沒有這樣的想法？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們體育署這邊現在就會開始研議，看看是不是先將初步的方向規劃出來。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，應該要有一些方向，等到總統上任之後，你們就可以立刻進行報告，時間就不會拖了，這樣好不好？"],["劉次長孟奇：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：繼續努力，加油！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員、謝謝次長。","接下來要處理臨時提案，今天委員提出的臨時提案共計4案，請宣讀。","一、","竹竹苗區國中會考免試入學超額比序採三級制，但新竹縣、市學生數逐年增加，但竹竹苗區許多家長們認為應改為積分制對學生才公平，要求檢討調整可能性。然而，經113年度竹苗區入學推動工作小組審議，決議113年維持原比序項目，讓家長們無法接受。有鑑於竹竹苗學區家長與地方教育主管機關對超額比序入學方式見解不同、紛爭不斷，請教育部依高級中等教育法第四十條規定，由教育部召集地方教育主管機關研商相關處置改善方案，以符教育擇才與公平。","提案人：羅廷瑋　　林倩綺　　洪孟楷　　柯志恩　　徐欣瑩　　羅智強","二、","鑒於今（113）年國際比賽在即，為保障職業運動員的權益，要求教育部體育署應修改「國家代表隊培訓選手及隊職員因培訓或參賽致短期失能身心障礙或死亡發給慰問金辦法」，提高發給慰問金基準，補足現行商業保險就體育運動員難以承保的部分。","另，為根本解決現行體育職業選手參與國家隊其保險額度不足，連帶影響代表國家出賽意願之問題，要求教育部體育署應就其可能解決方式（例如政策保險或補助方式等）作可行研究並提出完整報告，作為未來修法參考。","提案人：林宜瑾　　吳沛憶　　張雅琳　　蔡其昌　　","三、","有鑑於現行生理年齡滿三歲但學齡未滿三歲之幼兒離開托嬰中心無法立即銜接上幼兒園，不能獲得合宜的教保服務，避免幼童托育產生空窗期，爰建請教育部研議放寬收托限制，讓幼兒園招收生理年齡滿三歲，但學齡未滿三歲之幼兒，並於一個月內向立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：葉元之　　羅廷瑋　　柯志恩","連署人：林倩綺","四、","有鑑於近年物價高漲，為補足及衡平增班經費，爰建請教育部研議，由中央補助地方政府公共化幼兒園增班經費，應依物調需求補足，並應提供各縣市均衡的經費支持，避免各縣市補助經費高低不同，並於一個月內向立法院教育文化委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：葉元之","連署人：林倩綺　　羅廷瑋　　葛如鈞　　柯志恩"],["主席：第1案，徐欣瑩委員的提案，徐委員是否需要說明？"],["徐委員欣瑩：不需要。"],["主席：不需要說明。教育部呢？"],["劉次長孟奇：因為在實務上114學年度是最快可以進行的時間，教育部建議能否將「研商相關處置改善方案」修正為「研商114學年度相關處置改善方案」，以上。"],["主席：研商114學年度相關處置改善方案，徐委員，OK嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以。"],["主席：第1案照修正的文字通過。","第2案，提案人是蔡其昌委員及林宜瑾委員，是否需要補充說明？"],["蔡委員其昌：謝謝主席，我簡單說明一下。剛剛我在詢答時也特別提到這個臨時提案，因為這是很緊急的事情，今年的國際比賽即將要開始了，但是代表國家出賽的選手卻有保險上的問題，大家從媒體的報導應該也都很清楚得知。不過，我在做這份臨時提案時並不知道今天教育部已經通過教育部體育署補助國家代表隊培訓或參賽短期失能保險給付與薪資差額要點，教育部已經修正通過這個要點，大家都知道商業保險無法滿足所有職業選手的需要，因為沒有再保公司，沒有保險公司有辦法承做這麼巨大的保單，所以現行的保障是不足的。我透過公聽會讓教育部知道這個問題，原本我是希望修改國家代表隊培訓選手及隊職員因培訓或參賽致短期失能身心障礙或死亡發給慰問金辦法，你們教育部的辦法名稱怎麼都那麼長！本來是希望透過這個辦法，但是後來教育部改了薪資差額要點，所以我認為是不是就在這個提案加上一段話？就是在「補足現行商業保險」的前面加上「或以其他行政規則」，因為教育部今天通過的是差額要點，不是慰問金辦法，但無論如何，只要能夠完成對職業選手的保障，我相信我都沒意見。不然他們會很困擾，早上才通過差額要點，結果我們竟然又要他們修慰問金辦法，這樣會出現扞格，所以我建議加上幾個字，也就是「或以其他行政規則補足現行商業保險……」。","第二段的部分，我想就是長期的做法，未來體育署以及我們這麼多委員針對國民體育法提出的修法，其實多多少少都有提到這一點，所以教育部同時也應該進行研議，除了修改這個要點之外，是否還有其他可以解決的方式，包括引進國外的再保公司。以中華職棒而言，我們的薪資越來越高，一個月百萬級的選手未來會越來越多，像張育成選手如果回來臺灣，他一個人的薪資又會三級跳，如果啦！我希望他不要回來，繼續留在大聯盟，如果他回來的話，這個薪資就會三級跳。未來如果國家隊徵召他，他的合約金額更大、合約金額更大，如果再保無法處理，這個就會是問題。未來可能可以怎麼做，你們可以做可行性研究並提出報告，作為未來修法的參考，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員的提案說明，教育部？"],["劉次長孟奇：教育部依委員的修正文字配合辦理。"],["主席：第2案修正後通過，謝謝。","處理第3案，提案人是葉元之委員，是否需要提案說明？"],["葉委員元之：我這個提案主要是針對一些幼兒可能會有收托的空窗期，3歲從托嬰中心出來，但還沒到8月1日，無法進入幼兒園，家長也沒辦法照顧。我的提案是要求教育部在一個月內提出書面報告，但還是希望能越快越好，因為我講的是實際正在發生的問題，有很多小朋友現在無法進入幼兒園，看看教育部能否做好就直接通過這個政策？我知道這樣寫的話，你們一定會意見一大堆，才會要求在一個月內提出書面報告，但希望你們朝開放的方式辦理，而且要越快越好。"],["主席：我呼應這一點，教育部？"],["劉次長孟奇：是，教育部配合辦理。"],["主席：你說一個月嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：就是目前的這個提案。"],["主席：應該要寫二個禮拜。"],["劉次長孟奇：我們會盡快。"],["葉委員元之：因為這件事情正在發生當中。"],["主席：教育部？"],["葉委員元之：不然我們改二個禮拜？"],["主席：好啦！你們盡快。"],["劉次長孟奇：我們在二週內先到委員的辦公室提出說明。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["主席：第3案照案通過，謝謝。","第4案。"],["葉委員元之：第4案也是一樣，雖然我是寫一個月，但這個問題也是一樣。當初核定蓋非營利幼兒園時的經費到現在已經暴增2倍，所以你們的經費核撥一定要與物價調整相關，否則根本就沒辦法蓋，你們的美意就被打折了，這個部分也幫我們評估一下，好不好？"],["主席：教育部？"],["劉次長孟奇：針對提案配合辦理，我們在兩個禮拜內一併先向委員提出說明。"],["主席：第4案照案通過，謝謝。","各臨時提案若有委員要補簽，請議事人員詳細登載於議事錄中。","接下來要繼續進行質詢。","請王鴻薇委員，時間為4分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.2078437500000003,"end":5.464718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.227843750000002,"end":13.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.952843750000003,"end":15.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.08721875,"end":81.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.68909375,"end":86.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.88659375,"end":100.67346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.03784375000001,"end":91.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.55159375000001,"end":98.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.67346875000001,"end":100.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.97721875,"end":100.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.99409375,"end":101.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.01096875,"end":101.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.02784375,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.33159375000001,"end":152.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.27721875,"end":163.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.35596875000002,"end":163.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.76909375,"end":163.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.81971875000002,"end":183.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.00221875000003,"end":190.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.65096875,"end":196.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.57034375,"end":209.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.05721875,"end":221.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.73471875,"end":245.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.01784375000003,"end":246.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.16534375,"end":250.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.97909375,"end":253.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.93221875,"end":264.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.69409375000004,"end":265.96409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.049,"end":2.773,"text":"謝謝主席請劉次長跟鄭署長好次長及署長"},{"start":20.044,"end":45.737,"text":"謝謝兩位時間只有四分鐘非常的短暫首先謝謝這個昭緯排國民體育法的這個修法當然今天沒有主條啦但是該解決的問題很著急是因為還是要趕快解決我想之前本席在立法院開過一個公聽會也謝謝署長有參加那這公聽會主要我們要馬上立即解決的什麼問題呢我們要解決的是國家代表對選手保險的問題"},{"start":47.398,"end":68.852,"text":"因為大家都知道台灣的商業保險裡面對國家代表隊特別是職業選手被國家徵召為國家代表隊因為他們都有薪資那我們要保障這些職業選手的權益不會因為國家徵召打了比賽之後受了傷回去之後影響他的職業生涯所以保險就成了凸顯特別重要"},{"start":69.412,"end":85.537,"text":"那大家也在媒體上看到包括職棒跟職籃是目前最重要的那我先請問署長今年啊接下來有多少這個重大的這個國際比賽會徵召到職業選手報告委員我們預計除了威廉瓊斯杯當然最重要還是棒球的12強"},{"start":87.077,"end":104.855,"text":"所以主要這兩個,籃球跟棒球這兩個,還有排球或其他嗎?報告委員,其實我們在教育部這邊已經有在擬定行政規則依照委員當時公聽會的建議來補足這個新制的部分。好,謝謝。那我想因為如同剛剛署長所講的,因為國際比賽在即,"},{"start":107.037,"end":130.476,"text":"就我們不能等立法院修完國體法三讀通過之後這個早就已經大家今年都會面臨到問題啦所以今年啊被國家徵召的這些職業選手我們要立即補救措施所以我特別謝謝這個鎮署長在公聽會裡面勇於承擔我剛剛教育部的同仁也告訴我這個今天我們已經部長已經簽准了"},{"start":133.238,"end":159.213,"text":"透過教育部體育署補助國家代表隊培訓或參賽短期失能保險給付與薪資差額要點,就是透過這個薪資差額要點,我們來補足今年在商業保險對職業選手保障不足的部分,由這個辦法來補足,應該是這樣,沒有錯嗎?包委員,我們現在在部長核定之後接下來就是公告,那不只是今年,接下來"},{"start":159.853,"end":182.703,"text":"在我們找到更好的方法之前,我們就用這個要點來補足。所以待會呢,就是說我今天沒有做提案說明是因為國體法的修法緩不濟急啦。那我的修法裡面你們的建議我都支持啦。所以我透過一個提案我也講了,待會我會再說明。那所以說我希望能夠緊述的將接下來等於說今天通過了這個辦法,"},{"start":184.724,"end":208.562,"text":"職業選手包括這個瓊斯杯籃球包括今年年底的棒球的12強保險的問題就解決了。包括委員我們涵蓋的是所有有薪資合約的包括甲級。職業選手有薪資合約的。對。所以這些問題在今年的比賽就可以解決了。那長期要怎麼處理我們還是回到法的修法裡面去做對職業選手做一些保障。這個大概我們的方向。那第二個問題呢這個"},{"start":211.084,"end":232.914,"text":"賴總統因為要支持體育部嘛這個其實我做我一方面是立法委員二方面我也是體育界人士啦我非常支持這個對國家對體育的重視那雖然這個賴總統還沒有上任啦而且要成立一個部會這個知識體大他要涉及到修法人員的編制這個我們都要多少部會怎麼調整"},{"start":234.235,"end":235.416,"text":"我們體育署這邊我們現在就開始來研議"},{"start":251.069,"end":251.489,"text":"主席主席"}]}},{"id":"151423","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151423","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44506c38bcb3c838b77cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c945473bcb92a8505d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"11:16:21 - 11:27:39","影片長度":"00:11:18","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":678,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:27:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:16:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":455,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時16分）主席好。有請委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：林委員，你好。"],["林委員憶君：你好。孔子學院是由中國主導，披著推廣漢語漢學的外表，實際上是對世界各國進行政治的滲透，還有文化統戰問題機構。近年來，西方民主國家已經陸續意識到孔子學院的問題，表面上它是中文學習中心，但實際上中國卻是利用孔子學院趁機宣傳中共史觀，甚至在課堂中加入合法性的共產集權制度，所以這樣的話，他們最終的目的就是要讓世界各地去孔子學院學習的人都認同中國的共產制度，委員長，這樣你有同意嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：過去確實是這樣。"],["林委員憶君：所以表示中國的孔子學院已經開始被自由民主的國家識破不良的居心了。請問，據僑委會所瞭解，這些年來，中共的孔子學院經過那麼多年在全球的擴張，搞了那麼多年，在國外有哪一些爭議呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：爭議當然很多，包括他們企圖影響這些高等教育的研究方向，企圖要讓某些學者產出對他們有利的言論，甚至也會在華語教學當中誤導學生，但是在民主自由社會的學生，他們反應也很直接，他們會說孔子學院所提供的教材都是那種比較威權的國家思維，所以以我去年去了一趟波蘭，跟一位在當地教書的大學教授座談的時候，他就跟我直接說，其實臺灣很有市場，我們趕快把我們的華語文教材提供給他們，因為他們當地的大學生對於中國方面所提供的教材非常反感，他們覺得在那邊學習不符他們的需求，也因為這樣子我去年開始就回來把我們的華語教材改成雙語版，有包括華語，加上波蘭語、斯拉夫語，做成新的版本，然後能夠送去，讓他們有興趣想要學習的大學生，或者是我們一般的成人，都能夠有可近性，想學華語的時候比較快速。當然，我們編纂的這些教材都是比較符合當地的風土民情、文化價值跟自由民主的這種概念。"],["林委員憶君：好。這樣的話，照剛才委員長所說的，西方國家近幾年就是開始抵制孔子學院了，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["林委員憶君：所以相對的話，導致各地的孔子學院大量關閉，請問委員長，僑委會有沒有掌握目前中國的孔子學院大約是關閉了多少個呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：根據我的數字累積，在美國9成以上已經都被shut down了，還有將近一成是換了一個名字，但是還是存在在那裡，所以這件事情也開始引起部分的大學注意，說他們會不會換湯不換藥，只是假裝換一個名稱？所以這種情形在美國我們有注意觀察到，在歐洲也有部分國家，像日前英國的調查報告裡面就特別提到這件事情，所以歐洲國家也關閉了非常多，也差不多是近九成都被退場了。中國現在這種孔子學院還能夠比較敢明顯聲張的，只有在亞洲部分國家而已。所以現在歐美國家他們都是變得比較低調，而且都刻意換名稱，不敢再叫「孔子學院」。但是可以理解的是，中國政府的這個系統他們還是沒有放棄，一直持續地還是在積極運作中。也因為這樣，我想我們僑委會也都很積極地在關注這些狀況。"],["林委員憶君：好。剛才據委員長這樣說，相對地，剛才有講到我國在海外有設立華語文學習中心，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["林委員憶君：現在也是擴張得非常快速。但是據本席瞭解，其實師資數量是不足的……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["林委員憶君：似乎一直是很大的困擾嘛！想請問一下委員長，華語文學習中心我們會有哪些師資的來源呢？還有，目前僑委會為了紓解海外地區華語文師資的不足，同時推廣具有臺灣特色的華語文教育，請問僑委會有什麼積極解決，還有推展的合作計畫呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員所指教的確實是我們現在很大的挑戰，因為我們海外的僑民在近20年來人口其實是有點停滯了，沒有再增加太多。所以早期很多留學生，像我自己當過留學生的時候，我就去做僑校的老師。近年來因為留學生的數量減少，所以師資確實也是有進補上面的不足。","我們現在是用既有僑校的老師，給他們做專業的訓練。就是說他們本來教的是小學生，可是現在因為華語文學習中心要教的是成人，所以我們就開比較多的進修課程。這進修的課程一方面是用線上的，然後也有派我們國內的學者跟教授去做巡迴的研討會，協助這些有心要轉型做教成人的教師，讓這些師資可以進入這個市場。","另外一方面，我們也運用現代的科技，就是說國內有很多的大專院校培養出一些師資，這些師資也用線上課程的資源模式，來提供我們在華語文學習中心。所以我們現在的中心原則上一個禮拜要求是3個小時的課程，但是2個小時是要實體的上課，1個小時可以是線上的上課。用這樣的方式來補充我們在師資資源上面的挹注。這個效果其實還滿不錯，因為有些學生會說我想要進階到什麼，那我們就可以把它分眾化地處理。有些人學得比較快，有的人學得比較慢，所以那一個小時的線上課程的時候就可以分級來進行。"],["林委員憶君：對，所以還是針對師資不足的方面。我記得過去的僑委會其實也是有跟當時內政部的役政署爭取一些替代役名額到各僑校去服務，但因為之前的義務役改成4個月，轉服替代役也只有6個月，所以想請教委員長，最近僑委會會不會也比較少跟內政部的役政司爭取替代役員額呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們一直都有去做這個……這個事情比較不是內政部役政署的問題。我們每一年都會上成功嶺去做宣傳，然後看這些役男有沒有個人的興趣。他們如果有個人興趣的時候，我們就邀請來做我們的替代役。因為簽替代役的時候他的時間就比較長，其實前後將近十個月，不是只有6個月而已，有將近十個月，我們派出去到海外的僑校也比較是全日制的僑校，不是那種週末型補充教育的學校。","這個當然很受歡迎，我們確實……比方說我們派到菲律賓、派到泰國、派到日本，很多僑校之後都會跟我們說希望能夠再增加，我們也確實是很希望國內華語系畢業的學生如果能夠在替代役的這個過程當中多做這個方面的，那我們也會想辦法來精進我們僑委會，看能不能再提供什麼樣的誘因，來增加他們的興趣，因為畢竟這個是一個自主選擇的，我們是沒辦法強迫的。"],["林委員憶君：好。為了宣傳臺灣自由民主的價值，爭取認同，所以擴大國家的軟實力。如果這個方案可行的話，請僑委會可以積極一點去規劃。"],["徐委員長佳青：好的。"],["林委員憶君：還有一個問題請教委員長，協助僑胞回臺灣參加520正副總統就職典禮，算不算是促進海外僑胞對國家的認同與支持呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，確實是很重要的。"],["林委員憶君：所以僑委會有辦理歡迎海外僑胞回臺參加就職典禮的活動嘛！對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["林委員憶君：可是到目前為止，現在有多少僑胞報名參加了呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：今天到目前是已經870人了。"],["林委員憶君：因為從資訊上面露出開放報名，到報名截止中間，只有大概一個月的時間，但是本席發現似乎有些辦事處還拖了2個禮拜之後才公布訊息，想回國參加的人都措手不及。請問委員長，我們一般訂機票要出國，如果在提前一個月的話，時程上是不是太趕了？一般計畫大約也要兩、三個月前就要開始訂機票了。","你也知道，其實從總統大選結束到下一任正副總統就職，這個中間大概有4個月的時間，僑委會可以提早啟動計畫啊！讓海外的僑胞提早知道這個訊息，可以多2個月的時間安排返臺計畫；不然我覺得好像參加的人就是要時間很多、很空閒的人才能報名參加520總統就職典禮，所以一般上班的僑胞想要參加，但是在那麼短的時間內要把時間空閒出來，再訂機票，其實是非常緊迫的。"],["徐委員長佳青：確實我們有思考到這些狀況，就是總統就職的典禮畢竟不像每一年的國慶慶典，我們過去的國慶慶典開放報名到截止報名的時間，原則上大概都是3個禮拜到1個月之間。其實我們就職大典也是差不多比照這個規模，上一次的2016我們也差不多是1個月報名時間。所以，我想在海外有心想參加的大概已經心裡都有做一些準備，而且有些人提前來問的時候，我們也會跟他講大概怎麼樣，但是只是說線上的報名系統，我們一定要等籌備委員會開完，我們才能夠正式上線，但準備工作我們其實3月就已經都在準備。"],["林委員憶君：所以有時候我們要考慮到很多。還有某些的駐外辦事處或許有時候會有一些延遲公布的訊息，這些都要放進來考慮的。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["林委員憶君：有時候機票可能也會訂不到。所以這個東西我想請僑委會回去檢討一下，下次有類似的活動，是不是總統大選要提早規劃、提早公布訊息，可以嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：好的，我也希望可以照委員說的這樣的建議，以後時間可以再往前推進，謝謝。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請洪申翰委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.45284375,"end":3.1359687500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.974718750000001,"end":43.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.46721875,"end":45.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.64409375,"end":54.368468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.97596875,"end":55.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.549718750000004,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.22159375000001,"end":76.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.49159375,"end":76.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.84596875000001,"end":77.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.97659375,"end":166.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.17409375,"end":164.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.49409375000002,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.41284375,"end":175.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.96784375000001,"end":233.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.53034375000001,"end":259.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.02846875,"end":259.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.65284375000005,"end":259.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.83846875,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.96784375000004,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.72346875000005,"end":401.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.74034375,"end":401.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.29721875,"end":427.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.20471875000004,"end":427.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.76159375000003,"end":427.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.96409375,"end":428.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.28471875,"end":428.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.53784375000004,"end":428.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.55471875,"end":502.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.02846875000006,"end":502.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.11284375,"end":502.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.18034375,"end":502.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.56846875,"end":502.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.93971875000005,"end":513.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.3303437500001,"end":524.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.7084687500001,"end":525.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.3115937499999,"end":540.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.95909375,"end":572.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.4097187500001,"end":601.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.3672187500001,"end":602.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.97471875,"end":644.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.7065937500001,"end":651.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.0347187500001,"end":670.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.0459687500002,"end":660.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.9640937500001,"end":679.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.2678437500001,"end":671.50409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.491,"end":1.455,"text":"主席好有請委員長請委員長"},{"start":9.011,"end":36.989,"text":"林委員你好你好孔子學院是由中國主導披著推廣漢語漢學的外表實際上是對世界各國進行政治的滲透還有文化統戰問題機構近年來西方民主的國家已經陸續的意識到孔子學院的問題表面上它是中文學習中心但實際上中國卻是利用孔子學院趁機宣傳中共史觀"},{"start":38.01,"end":38.25,"text":"委員長,您有同意嗎?"},{"start":55.723,"end":56.804,"text":"中共的孔子學院經過那麼多年在全球的擴張搞了那麼多年在國外有哪一些爭議呢?"},{"start":77.75,"end":105.146,"text":"這個爭議當然很多包括說他們企圖影響這些高等教育的研究方向那麼企圖要讓某些學者產出對他們有利的言論那甚至也會在華語教學當中誤導學生那但是在民主自由社會的學生他們反應也很直接他們會說這個孔子學院所提供的教材都是那種比較威權的國家"},{"start":106.606,"end":128.392,"text":"所以以我去年去了一趟波蘭的時候跟一位在當地教書的大學教授在座談的時候他就跟我直接說其實台灣很有市場我們趕快把我們的華語文的這個教材提供給他們因為他們當地的大學生對於中國方面所提供的教材是非常反感"},{"start":128.712,"end":131.814,"text":"他們覺得在那邊學習不符他們的需求所以也因為這樣子我去年開始就回來把這個我們的華語教材改成是雙語版有包括華語加上波蘭語、斯拉夫語做成這個新的版本然後能夠送去"},{"start":146.102,"end":146.122,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":169.164,"end":186.007,"text":"那這樣的話就是照剛才委員長所說的那西方國家近幾年就是開始抵制孔子學院了對不對所以相對的話導致各地的孔子學院大量的關閉那請問委員長僑務會有沒有掌握目前中國的孔子學院大約是關閉了多少個呢"},{"start":186.708,"end":194.433,"text":"根據我的這個數字的累積在美國呢九成以上已經都被shut down了但是有一些將近一成的他們是換了一個名字但是還是存在在那裡所以這件事情也開始有引起部分的這個大學的注意說他們會不會換湯不換藥只是假裝換一個名稱所以這種情形在美國我們有注意觀察到"},{"start":216.528,"end":232.157,"text":"在歐洲也有部分國家那像日前英國的這個調查報告裡面就特別提到這件事情所以歐洲國家也關閉了非常多也差不多是近九成都被退場了那中國現在這種孔子學院還能夠比較"},{"start":233.598,"end":235.659,"text":"所以也因為這樣 我想我們僑委會也都很積極的在關注這些狀況"},{"start":259.889,"end":262.012,"text":"據委員長這樣說,我國在海外有設立華語文學習中心,現在也是擴張得非常快速。據本席了解,其實資數量是不足的,"},{"start":274.949,"end":275.749,"text":"請問僑委會有什麼積極解決還有推展的合作計畫呢?"},{"start":296.118,"end":317.585,"text":"委員所指教的確實是我們現在很大的挑戰因為我們海外的僑民在近20年來人口實是有點停滯了沒有再增加太多所以早期很多留學生像我自己當過留學生的時候我就去做僑校的老師那近年來因為留學生的數量減少所以師資確實也是有"},{"start":319.465,"end":324.37,"text":"進補上面的不足那我們現在是用既有這個僑校的老師給他們做專業的訓練就是說他們本來教的是小學生可是現在因為華語文學習中心要教的是成人所以我們就開比較多的進修的課程"},{"start":337.503,"end":339.526,"text":"這進修的課程一方面是用線上的,然後也有派我們國內的學者跟教授去做巡迴的研討會,協助這些有心要轉型做教成人的教師,讓這些師資可以進入這個市場。"},{"start":354.887,"end":374.382,"text":"那另外一方面我們也運用現代的科技就是說國內有很多的大專院校那培養出一些師資那這些師資也用線上的這個課程的資源模式來提供我們在華語文學習中心所以我們現在的中心呢原則上一個禮拜要求是三個小時課程但是是兩個小時是要實體的上課一個小時可以是線上的上課"},{"start":380.186,"end":385.532,"text":"所以用這樣的方式來補充這個我們在師資資源上面的一個挹注所以這個效果其實還蠻不錯因為有些學生他會說我想要進階到什麼那我們就可以把它分眾化的處理有些人學得比較快有的人學得比較慢所以那一個小時的線上課程的時候就可以分級來做這個進行"},{"start":402.33,"end":407.051,"text":"所以還是針對失智不足的方面我記得過去的僑委會其實也有是跟當時的內政部的議政署爭取一些替代役名額到各校的僑校去服務但因為之前的義務役改成4個月轉服替代役也只有6個月所以想請教委員長最近僑委會會不會也比較少跟內政部的議政司爭取替代役元額呢"},{"start":428.696,"end":434.377,"text":"我們一直都有去做這個事情比較不是內政部這個議政署的問題是我們每一年都會上成功嶺去做宣傳然後看這些藝男有沒有個人的興趣那他們如果有個人的興趣的時候我們就邀請來做我們的替代役那因為簽替代役的時候他的時間就比較長"},{"start":451.161,"end":455.963,"text":"其實前後將近十個月不是只有六個月而已將近十個月那我們派出去到海外的僑校這種僑校也比較是全日制的僑校不是那種週末型補充教育的學校這個當然很受歡迎我們確實比方說我們派到菲律賓派到泰國派到日本"},{"start":472.831,"end":476.974,"text":"那很多僑校的之後都會跟我們說希望能夠再增加那我們也確實是很希望國內的這個華語系畢業的學生如果他們能夠這個在替代役的這個過程當中多做這個方面的"},{"start":491.323,"end":492.744,"text":"為了宣傳台灣自由民主的價值,爭取認同,所以擴大國家的軟實力,如果這個方案可行的話,可能請僑委會可以積極一點去規劃。"},{"start":514.885,"end":521.39,"text":"然後還有一個問題就是請教委員長協助僑胞回臺灣參加520正副總統就職典禮算不算是促進海外僑胞對國家的認同與支持呢是確實是很重要的所以僑委會有辦理歡迎海外僑胞回臺參加就職典禮的活動對不對對可是現在到目前為止現在有多少僑胞報名參加了呢今天到目前是已經870人了"},{"start":541.047,"end":554.93,"text":"因為從資訊上面露出開放報名到報名截止中間只有大概一個月的時間但是北溪發現似乎有些辦事處還拖了兩個禮拜之後才公布訊息那想回國參加的人都措手不及那請問委員長我們一般訂機票要出國如果是要提前一個月的話時程上是不是太趕了那一般計畫大約也要兩三個月前就要開始訂機票了"},{"start":567.512,"end":571.957,"text":"然後你也知道其實從總統大選結束到下一任正副總統就職這個中間大概有四個月的時間那僑委會可以提早啟動計畫讓海外的僑胞提早知道這個訊息可以多兩個月的時間安排返台計畫不然"},{"start":584.631,"end":592.697,"text":"我覺得好像參加的人就是要時間很多很空閒的人才能報名參加520總統就職典禮這樣說一般上班的僑胞根本想要參加但是那麼短的時間內要把時間空閒出來再訂機票其實是非常緊迫的"},{"start":603.379,"end":610.243,"text":"確實我們有思考到這些狀況就是總統就職的典禮畢竟不像每一年的國慶慶典那我們過去的國慶慶典開放報名到截止報名的時間原則上大概都是三個禮拜到一個月之間那其實我們這個就職大典也是差不多比照這個規模那上一次的2016我們也是差不多是一個月報名時間所以"},{"start":631.238,"end":656.71,"text":"我想在海外有心想參加的大概已經心裡都有做一些準備而且有些人提前來問的時候我們也會跟他講大概怎麼樣但是只是說線上的報名系統我們一定要等籌備委員會開完我們才能夠正式上線但準備工作我們其實3月就已經都在準備所以有時候我們要考慮到很多還有某些的駐外辦事處或許有時候會有一些延遲公佈的訊息這些都要放進來考慮的"},{"start":660.051,"end":660.071,"text":"謝謝委員長"}]}},{"id":"151422","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151422","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452e0dbd70272c024157f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c942c120f4751f248e95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:14:53 - 11:24:19","影片長度":"00:09:26","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":566,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:24:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:14:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":494,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時15分）謝謝召委。我們有請次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早！"],["張委員雅琳：次長好！我想大家都很關注這次東華大學失火的問題，前面已經有委員關心有關於硬體的部分，接下來我想我們就針對於這個實驗室大火造成很多學生的畢業還有師生的論文，可能都會有一些問題，我不曉得目前教育部的規劃是怎麼樣來協助處理這個問題？"],["劉次長孟奇：先跟委員報告，在財損部分，4月10日我們到東華已經做了初步的……"],["張委員雅琳：這個部分不用回答，我在前面有聽到了。"],["劉次長孟奇：好，至於協助師生的這個部分，我們是不是請我們副司長做一個更具體的答復？"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["梁副司長學政：謝謝委員，針對東華大學所造成的這些損害，目前我們會積極協助師生來處理，會分3年來處理，主要是根據我們教育部的公務預算，也會去爭取行政院的災害準備金或是第二預備金……"],["張委員雅琳：對，但是我想要問的是比較軟體的部分，就是學生畢業這件事情，因為他的研究受到影響或是師生的論文這件事情。"],["梁副司長學政：跟委員報告，目前學生有需要的話，譬如實驗室等等，我們有協調附近的像慈濟大學等等來做協助，讓師生一定都可以獲得協助，特別是學生一定能夠順利完成他的學業。"],["張委員雅琳：老師升等的部分會不會有受到影響呢？"],["梁副司長學政：不會，有需要的話，我們都會全面來協助。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我們還是會持續的來關心這個部分。","再來，這次的大火這麼嚴重主要的原因是因為花蓮雖然有化學消防車，但是是屬於泡沫型的化學消防車，並不是這一次火災所需要的乾粉型。我想每一次發生事件都是一個檢查現在流程很好的機會，所以我看到大專院校其實有一個校園安全手冊，裡面有規定每一年至少要開一次校園安全聯繫協調會報，要號召相關的檢調、警政、消防、工務、交通、地政等等單位來協助學校處理校園及周邊安全的問題。這次的大火其實是花蓮在地消防隊無法撲滅的，而我認為如果我們有開這個會，我們應該事前就知道花蓮現場是沒有辦法處理的，可是這次我看那個新聞是現場消防員經校方告知才知道這件事，所以我想要問的是我們現在所有的大學普遍到底有沒有落實這個會議？這個是不是可以請次長來回復一下，不過我先說一下，我並沒有要苛責東華大學的意思，因為我覺得幸好他們還是有在現場講，不然就會造成明揚大火的問題，可不可以請次長針對這一題做說明？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，我們當然不會去苛責東華大學，我們現在全力協助它來處理災損，這是最優先事項，但是我們現在會以這個做為案例，因為現在要用這個案例來看，到底它有發生哪些根因問題，現在初步看起來有兩個，一個是剛剛委員所指出的這個校園安全聯繫協調會報，我們會再來充分瞭解一下目前各學校的執行狀況，不過很重要的一件事情是從這次案例看出來，實驗室要特別挑出來看，因為一般來講大家比較想像得到的是一般消防情況，但是我們大學最主要在實驗室，這次發生火災也是因為實驗室……"],["張委員雅琳：對，沒錯。"],["劉次長孟奇：第二個方向就是也不能光是依靠外在力量，現在我們可能要要求學校針對自己的實驗室做一個盤查，特別在總務這些方面，要針對實驗室先自主做第一線去擋住的規劃，這個是另外一個我們現在要去努力的方向。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝次長。其實我以前在英國念書的時候，我們念危機管理就是講要設想一個最糟糕的狀況，我們要怎麼樣去處理，因為實驗室其實在臺灣有非常多的學校都有，所以這一點請一定、務必要盤查，不然後面造成的財物損失當然是其次，可是師生的安全是非常重要的。","再來，延續剛剛范雲委員問的大學法的問題，就是我們已經20年沒有修，我剛剛也有聽到次長回復我們現在已經有辦公聽會了，那這些公聽會都有邀請學校的學生代表團體一起來加入嗎？因為前陣子發生的臺北大學的問題就是學校在行政會議上面處理了對學生權利有影響的問題，所以這次公聽會是有邀請到學生代表團體來參與嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：有，都有邀請。"],["張委員雅琳：好，那我想要瞭解我們目前的進度規劃是怎樣？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們公聽會已經辦理完畢，我們辦理了9次，不過跟委員報告，大學法修正牽涉到的利害團體彼此的意見老實說有些是蠻尖銳的……"],["張委員雅琳：對。"],["劉次長孟奇：但是我們還是再整理一下，因為我們另外也有一個研究報告，我們會根據這個持續的往下走，包含今天我們在場也還有另外一個大學法的修正草案……"],["張委員雅琳：對。"],["劉次長孟奇：我們都會列進來……"],["張委員雅琳：所以我想……"],["劉次長孟奇：我們應該是再往下走，就會再把它提上來。"],["張委員雅琳：所以我們相關的排程預計是什麼時候？現在是有個排程規劃嗎？可以說明一下嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：目前的排程應該是我們把這個整理完，最快看能不能下個會期就把它列上議程，不過這個當然還要看接下來的，還是跟委員報告，這當然要看接下來的，但是我們一定把它列入重要要完成的事項交接……"],["張委員雅琳：瞭解，這件事情非常重要，因為它已經這麼多年沒修，我覺得時代其實一直不停地在改變，我們還是需要與時俱進，所以還是要請教育部跟相關的利益團體做溝通，來把這件事情持續地去推進。","下一個問題，其實前陣子2月的時候學生們也有來抗議一件事情，就是有關於遊蕩犬影響到校園安全的這個問題，當時3月11日教育部是有說會開一個「大專院校遊蕩犬隻管理研商會議」，所以這個是已經開了嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：開了。"],["張委員雅琳：這已經開了，好，我想問一下，這邊有一個問題，就是大學其實跟其他學校不同的地方在於校園是一個開放空間，跟高中小學不太一樣，任何人都可以進來去餵食遊蕩犬，也有可能遺棄遊蕩犬，所以這些都是有可能我們目前沒有管理到的黑數，我希望我們的指引裡面也必須要去涵蓋這個部分。","再來，因為犬隻的攻擊事件其實是持續的增加，我看到我們這個遊蕩犬的指引裡面有說我們要去清查現在的數量，會做一些盤點，然後有一個校安通報的機制，但是我想問一下，這件事情是在6月底之前就會完成嗎？因為下一個學期就要開始了，所以6月底前會完成嗎？這個進度是這樣子。"],["劉次長孟奇：是，我們在6月底前會完成。"],["張委員雅琳：好，其中有一個訴求，我現在看你們的草案裡面是沒有講到安置遊蕩犬的部分，遊蕩犬會造成的除了師生的安全問題之外，因為學生是每天都要去上學的，所以他每天都在這樣子的高風險下，第二個問題是它可能會影響到像之前臺大那個白鼻心的問題，影響到臺灣原生種的問題，所以我想問一下這個安置部分的規劃是什麼？"],["劉次長孟奇：報告委員，初步的規劃方向是請地方的動保單位來協助安置。"],["張委員雅琳：那我們現在是已經跟動保司有取到一個合作的……"],["劉次長孟奇：我們跟農業部有……"],["張委員雅琳：還是後面的負責人員說明。"],["邱副司長仁杰：跟委員報告，我們跟農業部有初步達成共識，就是有關於學校假設有遊蕩犬隻不當攻擊的時候，要進行初步安置，我們會請地方政府的動保單位協助進行初步的安置，這個有與農業部……"],["張委員雅琳：這個都已經講好了嗎？"],["邱副司長仁杰：是。"],["張委員雅琳：其實影響到的學校蠻多的，甚至所有學生在這次的回應也都會明確的告訴學校，這件事情是可以用這種方式。"],["邱副司長仁杰：學生的訴求都有納進去考慮了。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請蔡其昌委員，時間為4分鐘，謝謝。在蔡其昌委員質詢完畢之後，我們就開始處理臨時提案，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.44846875,"end":1.4822187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.0222187500000004,"end":3.2878437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.0222187500000004,"end":5.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.232218750000001,"end":8.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.93534375,"end":19.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.51721875,"end":21.192218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.883468750000002,"end":26.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.575343750000002,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.60909375,"end":49.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.845968750000004,"end":55.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.04346875,"end":58.283468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.937843750000006,"end":56.781593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.266593750000006,"end":63.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.46409375,"end":63.632843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.632843750000006,"end":63.649718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.649718750000005,"end":63.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.70034375,"end":63.83534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.83534375000001,"end":63.852218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.852218750000006,"end":64.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.00409375000001,"end":64.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.57346875,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.06596875000001,"end":73.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.45721875000001,"end":80.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.74409375,"end":88.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.10159375,"end":95.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.58596875,"end":94.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.84721875000001,"end":109.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.12909375000001,"end":101.53409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.03159375000001,"end":104.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.49909375,"end":111.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.77721875,"end":114.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.65471875,"end":113.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.96659375,"end":161.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.80721875,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.25471875000002,"end":195.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.91596875000002,"end":209.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.56784375,"end":261.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.75346875000002,"end":210.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.86909375000002,"end":226.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.76721875000004,"end":257.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.62346875000003,"end":259.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.36971875,"end":280.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.72971875,"end":295.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":295.68096875000003,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.81471875,"end":332.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.56971875000005,"end":336.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.02471875000003,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.38971875000004,"end":356.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.02659375,"end":352.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.36409375,"end":352.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.46471875000003,"end":356.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.51534375,"end":356.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.71784375000004,"end":362.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":362.75909375000003,"end":363.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.96159375,"end":369.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":364.54784375,"end":365.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.40784375000004,"end":373.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.06534375,"end":394.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.50971875000005,"end":453.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.98534375,"end":427.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.05284375,"end":474.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.33221875000004,"end":487.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.39034375000006,"end":483.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":487.16159375,"end":509.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.60096875000005,"end":514.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.80284375,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.3928437500001,"end":519.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.4265937499999,"end":519.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.44346875,"end":519.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.59534375,"end":519.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.6965937500001,"end":519.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.71346875,"end":519.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.7978437500001,"end":519.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.9665937500001,"end":526.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":521.3840937500001,"end":522.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.00409375,"end":523.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.0503437500001,"end":524.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.11784375,"end":525.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":525.21471875,"end":525.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.0247187500001,"end":526.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.34534375,"end":528.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.8515937500001,"end":526.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.90221875,"end":527.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.74596875,"end":528.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.01159375,"end":530.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.26034375,"end":547.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.46034375,"end":556.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.75971875,"end":548.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.3584687499999,"end":550.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.7709687500001,"end":557.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":557.12534375,"end":559.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.86784375,"end":561.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.68159375,"end":561.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.7490937499999,"end":563.06534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.297,"end":18.512,"text":"張雅琳委員姜蕙琳委員姜蕙琳委員"},{"start":25.899,"end":47.58,"text":"委員早市長好我想大家都很關注這次東華大學失火的問題前面已經有委員關心有關於硬體的部分接下來我想我們就針對於因為這個實驗室大火造成很多學生他的畢業還有師生的一些論文都會有一些問題我不曉得說目前教育部的規劃是怎麼樣會來協助處理這個問題"},{"start":50.055,"end":63.288,"text":"是不是先跟委員報告在財損部分4月10號我們到東華已經做了初步的這個部分不用回答我已經看到我在前面有聽到了那協助書生的這部分我們是不是請我們副市長做一個更具體的答覆好 謝謝"},{"start":66.656,"end":75.567,"text":"根據東華大學所造成的這些損害的話目前我們大概是會積極除了用協助師生來處理會分三年來處理"},{"start":81.414,"end":108.8,"text":"主要是根據我們教育部的公務預算那也會去爭取行政院的一個災害的準備金或是第二級備金對,但是我想問的是比較軟體的部分就是學生畢業這件事情因為他的研究受到影響或是師生的論文這件事情是,剛才委員報告目前比如說學生有需要比如說因為實驗室等等我們有協調附近像慈濟大學等等來做協助那也讓師生一定都可以特別是學生一定能夠順利完成他的學業"},{"start":109.7,"end":130.728,"text":"老師升等的部分會不會有受到影響呢?不會,有需要我們都會全面的來協助。好,那這部分的話可能我們還是會持續的來關心這個部分。那再來就是說,因為這次的大火這麼嚴重啊,那主要原因是因為說花蓮雖然有化學消防車,但是是屬於泡沫型的化學消防車,並不是這一次火災所需要的乾粉型喔。"},{"start":132.389,"end":160.937,"text":"那這個我看了一下我想每一次發生一個事件都是一個檢查我們現在流程的一個很好的機會所以我看到大專院校其實是有一個校園安全手冊裡面有規定每一年至少要開一次校園安全聯繫協調匯報要來號召我們相關的檢調警政消防公務交通地震等等的單位來協助學校來處理校園跟周邊安全的問題"},{"start":162.864,"end":187.102,"text":"那這一次呢這次的大火呢其實是花蓮在地消防隊無法撲滅的而我認為這應該是如果我們有開這個會我們應該事前就知道我們花蓮現場是沒有辦法處理的可是這一次卻好像變成是現場我看那個新聞喔是現場消防員才知道這件事情經校方告知才知道這件事情所以我想要問的是說"},{"start":188.303,"end":208.15,"text":"我們到底有沒有學校有沒有落實我們現在所有的普遍的大學有沒有落實這一個會議那這個是不是可以請次長來回覆一下不過我先說一下我並沒有要苛責東華大學的意思因為我覺得幸好他們還是有在現場講啦不然就會造成民洋大火的問題所以可不可以請次長針對這一題"},{"start":209.871,"end":231.604,"text":"是,跟委員報告,基本上我們現在會針對,其實我們當然不會去苛責東華大學,我們現在全力協助他來處理災損,這是最優先事項,但是我們現在會以這個做一個案例,因為現在要用這個案例來看,到底他有發生哪些更衣問題,那現在初步看起來有兩個,"},{"start":232.745,"end":261.116,"text":"一個是剛委員所指出的這個校園安全聯繫的協導匯報這裡面我們會再來充分了解一下目前各學校執行狀況不過可能很重要的一件事情是從這次案例看出來是說實驗室要特別挑出來看因為可能大家一般來講的話比較想像到的是一般的消防情況但是我們的大學最主要是在實驗室這次發生也是因為實驗室所以那第二個方向就是說"},{"start":262.438,"end":280.046,"text":"不能光是依靠外在力量,現在我們可能要求學校就針對自己的實驗室做一個盤查,特別在總務這些方面,要針對這些實驗室要先自主做第一線去擋住的這個規劃,那這個是另外一個我們現在要去努力的方向。"},{"start":280.759,"end":294.878,"text":"好 謝謝次長因為其實我以前在英國念書的時候我們念危機管理就是在講要設想一個最糟糕的狀況是我們要怎麼樣去處理喔所以這個實驗室其實在台灣有非常多學校都有所以這一點其實一定要務必盤查因為不然這樣後面造成的"},{"start":296.139,"end":320.017,"text":"財務的損失當然是其次可是學生、師生的安全是非常重要的那再來就是延續剛剛段宇委員問的這個委員大學法的問題就是說我們已經20年沒有修那我剛剛也有聽到次長有在回覆說我們現在已經有辦公聽會了那這些公聽會是都有邀請一些學校的一些學生代表的團體一起來加入嘛因為這一次發生的前陣子發生的台北大學的問題就是"},{"start":321.158,"end":335.84,"text":"學校在行政會議上處理了跟學生權利有影響到的問題。所以這次的公聽會是有邀請到學生代表團體來參與的嗎?有,都有邀請。好,那我想要了解就是說我們目前那個進度規劃是怎樣?"},{"start":337.079,"end":351.58,"text":"因為我們公聽會已經辦理完畢不過我們辦理了九次不過跟委員報告這裡大學法修正的時候牽涉到的最厲害團體彼此的意見老實說有些是蠻尖銳的"},{"start":352.481,"end":373.169,"text":"但是我們還是再整理一下,那因為我們另外也有一個研究報告,那我們會根據這個就是持續的往下走,因為包含今天我們在場也還有另外一個大學法的修正草案,這我們都會列進來,那我們下期應該是再往下走就會再把它提上來。所以我們相關的排程預計是,現在是有個排程規劃嗎?可以說明一下嗎?"},{"start":374.63,"end":393.582,"text":"目前的排程我想應該是我們把這整理完最快看能不能下個會期,那就可以把它列上議程,不過這當然還要看接下來的,因為還是跟委員報告,但是我們一定把它列入一個重要的就是交接的要完成的事項。"},{"start":394.202,"end":412.974,"text":"對,因為這件事情非常重要,因為它已經這麼多年沒修,那我覺得時代的變化其實一直不停地在改變,我們還是需要與時俱進啦,所以還是要請教育部跟相關的利益團體做溝通啦,我們來把這件事情持續地去推進。再來下一個問題,就是其實前陣子二月的時候學生們也有來抗議一件事情,就是有關遊蕩犬的。"},{"start":414.875,"end":416.156,"text":"大學其實跟其他學校不同的地方在於說校園是一個開放空間"},{"start":438.067,"end":451.592,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體"},{"start":454.093,"end":473.895,"text":"那再來就是說因為這個選資的攻擊事件其實是持續的增加那我看到我們的遊覽權的指引裡面是有去說我們要去清查要去清查現在的這些數量啊然後會去做一些盤點這樣子然後有一個消安通報的機制"},{"start":475.436,"end":491.004,"text":"但是我想問一下這件事情是在6月底之前就會完成嗎?因為下一個學期就要開始了,所以6月底就會完成嗎?這進度是這樣子?好,那其中有一個訴求,就是說學生是說我現在看那個草案裡面是沒有講到安置遊蕩權的部分。"},{"start":491.864,"end":509.374,"text":"那遊蕩權會造成除了是私生的問題之外私生的安全問題因為學生是每天都要去上學的他每天都在這樣子的高風險下那第二個問題是說他可能會影響到之前臺北臺大那個白鼻腥的問題影響到臺灣原生種的問題所以我想問一下這個安置的部分規劃是什麼"},{"start":510.646,"end":522.152,"text":"委員初步的規劃方向是請地方的動保單位來協助安置那我們現在已經跟地方我們現在已經跟動保司有取到一個合作的我們跟農委會這邊有一直跟農業部跟那個應該是動保"},{"start":526.514,"end":550.144,"text":"還是那個後面負責的?委員報告我們跟農業部有初步達成共識就是有關於學校假設有遊蕩犬隻不當攻擊的時候那要進行初步安置那會請這個地方政府的動保單位來協助進行初步的安置這都已經講好了嗎?所以因為其實影響到的學校其實蠻多的"},{"start":550.584,"end":562.336,"text":"所以這所有的學生在這一次的回應就是這個六月的回應也都會告訴很明確的告訴學校這件事情是可以用這種方式學生的訴求都有納進去考慮了OK 好 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151421","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151421","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445bd73809426eb553904d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c9487251998cad1e1525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"11:16:09 - 11:24:18","影片長度":"00:08:09","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":489,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:24:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:16:09+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1008,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（11時16分）謝謝召委，是不是請王部長、水利署賴署長還有台電許副總？"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["林委員德福：王部長，本席去年3月的時候有問過這個題目，我現在再問一次，如果台電正式廢除核四，把核四認列損失，馬上就增加2,800億的虧損，媒體報導台電核四轉型方案將改為綠能的綜合電廠，那核四相關的損失，政府將採分年認列來減損，以電費分年分攤來收回，請問部長，在520前會不會定案？"],["王部長美花：應該是還沒有。"],["林委員德福：那我請教，2023年超徵3,617億，本席本來是希望你用超徵的稅收一次把核四的問題處理掉，避免電價再度調漲，部長，你有什麼看法？其實一次把它處理掉比較好，因為電價一漲，百物齊漲啦！你的看法呢？"],["王部長美花：事實上3,600億這個問題，主計總處應該有多次說明，它是包括中央跟地方的部分，在中央的部分，中央的相關經費包括能不能讓台電來追加預算，還有勞保的使用等等，經費確實都已經分配了。"],["林委員德福：每一次只要大家預測台電可能會調漲電價，百物就先漲在前面，這個是很嚴重的問題啊！部長，你知道嗎？"],["王部長美花：我們確實對電價會影響相關物價，已經做了非常謹慎的處理，所以在民生的或者是內需的部分，其實漲幅只有7%。"],["林委員德福：部長，事前要怎麼去規劃非常重要，不要說漲了以後，而且拉得那麼長，結果講實在話，現在真的百物齊漲，什麼都漲！老百姓的痛苦指數越來越高，因為薪水不漲啊！","部長，全臺有多處水庫蓄水率不到一半，石門水庫蓄水量只剩兩成多，交通部氣象署預報表示，春季降雨並不是很樂觀，希望民眾節約用水，昨天石門水庫水位只剩219公尺，蓄水量只有4,983萬立方公尺，請問經濟部目前有什麼因應的措施？預計石門水庫水位降至多少就會啟動離峰減壓供水？你們有沒有一些預備的方式？"],["王部長美花：目前是還不到減壓供水的地步，我們確實會謹慎看待枯水期，當然還是看春雨能夠挹注的部分。"],["林委員德福：我認為未雨綢繆很重要。"],["王部長美花：是，沒有錯。"],["林委員德福：部長，日前已表示水價沒有調漲計畫，請問這個承諾的有效期是在520之前，還是一年都有效？"],["王部長美花：在520之前沒有調價的規劃。"],["林委員德福：520之後，你不知道，因為你那時候不當部長了，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["林委員德福：部長，水資源作業基金113年的預算編列，耗水費有5億元收入，可用於節約用水的推動；2015年經濟部曾推動補助購買省水的洗衣機、馬桶等等，5億的預算每年可節省821萬噸的水量，大約一個阿公店水庫那麼大的蓄水量，本席希望經濟部用這些耗水費收入來規劃省水產品的補助，加速民眾來更換省水洗衣機、馬桶等等，節水又減碳，一舉兩得！你的看法呢？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，因為今年度是到4月截止，之後收取的費用是多少，要怎麼規劃，水利署會謹慎來做規劃。"],["林委員德福：賴署長，我認為這個要事前做規劃，而且要多做宣導，你的看法呢？"],["賴署長建信：當然要多做宣導，因為大戶可以節水，對整體省水也是有幫助的。"],["林委員德福：對啊！這個部分要未雨綢繆，而且要有長遠的計畫，長遠的看法，因為每一年都會碰到。","大前天（4月15日）台電發生大跳機，北臺灣差一點大停電，還是協調科技業減少用電，並幫忙發電，才搶救回來，但仍造成桃園以及新北地區有一些地方停電。部長在111年的303全臺大停電後曾自行處分，你不在乎個人的去留，如今520新內閣的經濟部長人選已經出線。請問王部長是否能夠承諾520前，若再有像這種大規模停電跳電的狀況，你就請辭下臺，你的看法呢？"],["王部長美花：這個部分我們當然要負責任，但這一陣子確實是因為地震造成的這個損傷，企業有發電機幫我們發電，但是他們沒有減少用電，對產業生產都沒有影響……"],["林委員德福：所以你認為520前絕對是很safe，沒有問題？"],["王部長美花：我們一定要做好相關的管理。"],["林委員德福：我也希望如此。最後一個議題，太陽能光電發展與我國電網的發展，更新速度息息相關。有媒體報導波蘭的電網營運商因為太陽能發電增長的速度過快，今年必須三次切斷綠能併網的連接，因為其綠能擴張過快，已經超過波蘭電網負荷量的程度，及而可能有跳電、斷電的風險。請問部長，我國有無相同的狀況？"],["王部長美花：沒有，每個國家的情形不太一樣。在臺灣的部分，我們除了綠能之外，另外儲能，還有我們的電網設置其實是相當有韌性的。"],["林委員德福：所以說我們沒有這個問題就對了？"],["王部長美花：我們沒有剛才委員講的這個情形。"],["林委員德福：因為波蘭未來將逐步的來升級電網，以因應再生能源的成長；我國行政院在303大停電後，同年也提出「強化電網韌性建設計畫」10年投入5,645億新臺幣來升級電網。請問上述預算包括綠能併網連接的部分，有沒有需要再增加預算，以建立再生能源併網連接？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，這裡的經費即已包括做這樣一個分散電網的需求了。"],["林委員德福：我認為這個很重要。"],["王部長美花：是，沒錯。"],["林委員德福：謝謝。"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔）：謝謝。接下來請王鴻薇委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.716593750000001,"end":14.796593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.758468750000002,"end":18.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.67784375,"end":19.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.38221875,"end":22.980968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.48721875,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.405968750000003,"end":48.259718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.39471875,"end":54.267218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.45284375000001,"end":55.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.617218750000006,"end":60.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.98346875,"end":62.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.51909375,"end":63.666593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.98721875000001,"end":64.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.13471875,"end":66.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.50159375,"end":67.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.72909375,"end":69.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.34471875,"end":72.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.84659375000001,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.16284375000001,"end":74.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.97284375000001,"end":75.15846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.15846875000001,"end":87.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.59534375000001,"end":89.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":90.61596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.00409375000001,"end":94.14284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.53096875,"end":97.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.77096875000001,"end":98.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.27284375,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.94346875000001,"end":101.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.46659375,"end":122.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.32846875000001,"end":122.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.29034375,"end":122.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.47596875,"end":133.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.52909375000002,"end":147.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.14721875,"end":148.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.63221875000002,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.89784375000002,"end":150.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.48409375,"end":153.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.82971875,"end":155.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.05721875,"end":158.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.01034375,"end":160.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.05221875,"end":163.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.85346875000002,"end":166.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.41846875000002,"end":166.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.09346875,"end":172.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.38784375,"end":193.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.55346875,"end":195.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.56159375000001,"end":197.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.32909375,"end":200.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.31596875000002,"end":203.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.50971875000002,"end":215.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.30534375000002,"end":226.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.02096875,"end":232.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.41284375,"end":232.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.66971875000002,"end":238.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.69409375,"end":242.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.58784375000002,"end":244.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.83659375000002,"end":250.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.65034375000002,"end":254.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.84346875000003,"end":295.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.56284375,"end":305.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.87784375,"end":305.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.92409375,"end":305.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.97471875,"end":310.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.39659375,"end":306.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.78471875,"end":306.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.40846875,"end":312.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.48846875000004,"end":317.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.96034375,"end":323.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.44034375,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.77221875000004,"end":368.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.34471875,"end":370.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.97721875,"end":387.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.78909375,"end":390.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.72096875,"end":392.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.96534375000005,"end":404.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.03284375000004,"end":393.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.71034375000005,"end":409.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.07659375000003,"end":413.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.16034375000004,"end":422.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.19284375,"end":428.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.07784375,"end":432.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.03096875,"end":443.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.20221875000004,"end":445.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.94471875000005,"end":444.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.21034375000005,"end":447.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.01596875,"end":477.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.01971875000004,"end":482.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.27659375,"end":480.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.52096875,"end":485.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.10721875,"end":485.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.55846875000003,"end":485.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.76096875,"end":485.82846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.333,"end":24.471,"text":"謝謝昭偉是不是我們來請王部長還有水利署賴署長還有我們台電許副總"},{"start":32.248,"end":44.912,"text":"王部長我請教因為本席去年在3月的時候有問過這個題目我現在再問一次如果台電正式匯除核四把核四認列損失馬上就增加了2800億的虧損那媒體報導台電核四轉型方案將改為綠能的綜合電廠"},{"start":53.675,"end":61.764,"text":"那這個相關合適的損失政府將採婚年認列來減損以電匯婚年婚攤來收回那我請問部長在520前會不會有定案"},{"start":72.188,"end":95.763,"text":"應該是還沒有還沒有定案那我請教因為2023年其實超徵有3617億為例那本席我本來是希望說其實你超徵的稅收一次把它處理把那個合適的問題避免電價再度調漲這個部長你有什麼看法其實一次把它處理掉因為你電價以後漲你漲電價一漲百物期漲"},{"start":100.967,"end":105.071,"text":"事實上3600這個問題主計總處這邊應該有多次的說明他是包括中央跟地方的部分那中央的部分那在中央的相關的經費包括能不能讓我們台電來追加預算還有勞保的使用等等那經費確實都已經分配了"},{"start":122.648,"end":147.877,"text":"因為你每一次只要這個大家預測說台電會這個可能電價會調漲你百物就先仗在前面這個是很嚴重的問題部長你知道嗎我們確實對這個電價會影響相關的他們已經做了非常謹慎的處理所以在這個民生的或者是內需的這個部分其實漲幅只有7%的部分而已是部長其實齁"},{"start":151.836,"end":179.975,"text":"這個事前要怎麼去規劃非常重要你不要說漲了以後而且拉了那麼長結果講實在話現在真的百物齊漲了什麼都漲老百姓這個痛苦指數越來越高因為薪水不漲那個不漲全台有多數水庫蓄水率不到一半什麼水庫蓄水量只剩兩成多"},{"start":180.916,"end":196.515,"text":"交通部氣象局預報表示預估春季降雨並不是很樂觀希望民眾節約用水昨天石門水庫水位只剩219公尺有蓄水量剩"},{"start":198.416,"end":221.333,"text":"只有4983萬立方公尺那我請問經濟部目前你們有什麼因應的措施預計什麼水庫水位降至多少就會啟動離峰減壓的供水你們有沒有一些預備的方式現在目前是還不到這個減壓供水的地步是還不用那我們確實是會謹慎來再看這個"},{"start":224.255,"end":241.957,"text":"昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能夠挹注的部分。昆水期的部分,當然看這個春雨還是能"},{"start":245.736,"end":270.628,"text":"目前520之前目前沒有條價的規劃520以後你不知道因為你那時候不當部長了嘛對不對 是部長水資源作業基金113年預算編列耗水會有5億元收入可用於節約用水的推動2015年經濟部曾推動補助購買省水的洗衣機、馬桶等等"},{"start":271.348,"end":295.169,"text":"無預的預算每年可節省821萬噸的水量大約一個阿公電水庫有那麼大的水量蓄水量我是希望說經濟部應用這些耗水費收入來規劃省水產品的補助加速民眾來更換這個省水洗衣機、馬桶、節水又減碳一舉兩得,您的看法呢?"},{"start":296.176,"end":310.177,"text":"謝謝委員那因為那個今年度會到4月截止然後之後收取的費用是多少那這個怎麼規劃水利署會謹慎來規劃我是任委署長賴署長這個事情要規劃而且要多做宣導"},{"start":311.428,"end":327.765,"text":"你的看法勒當然要多多宣導因為大幅可以節水對整體的社會都是有幫助的對啊你這個要未雨綢繆而且這個是長遠的計畫長遠的看法每一年都會逢到好不好大前天4月15號台電發生大跳機"},{"start":328.806,"end":354.702,"text":"那其實北台灣差點大停電還是這個協調科技業減電這個減少用電並幫忙發電才搶救回來但能造成桃園以及北部新北地區有一些停電那部長您在111年的303全台大停電後您有自行處分說個人不在乎個人的去留那如今520內閣"},{"start":356.743,"end":370.196,"text":"經濟部長的人選已經有出現了那王部長您是我能夠承諾520前若要是再像這種大規模停電跳電的狀況你就請辭下台你的看法呢"},{"start":371.377,"end":372.238,"text":"所以說你那麼520前絕對是很safe"},{"start":390.191,"end":392.573,"text":"太陽能光電發展與我國電網的發展更新速度息息相關。媒體報導波蘭電網營運商因為太陽能發電增長的速度過快"},{"start":410.191,"end":430.999,"text":"而在今年就必須三次的切斷綠能併網的連接因為其綠能擴張過快已經超過波瀾電網負荷量的程度反而可能造成跳電斷電的風險那部長我國是否也有沒有相同的狀況"},{"start":432.219,"end":445.175,"text":"沒有每個國家的情形不太一樣那對台灣的部分我們除了綠能之外那另外除能還有我們的電網的這個設置其實是相當所以說沒有這個問題就對了我們沒有剛才委員講的這個情形"},{"start":448.058,"end":475.367,"text":"波蘭未來將逐步的來升級電網以因應再生能源的成長那我國行政院在303大停電後同年也提出說要強化電網韌性建設計畫10年5645億新台幣來升級電網那請問上述預算包括綠能、並往連接的這些部分有沒有需要再增加預算以建立以再生能源並往連接"},{"start":477.369,"end":485.13,"text":"跟委員報告這裡的經費就包括做這樣的一個分散電網的需求了我認為這個很重要是好不好謝謝是"}]}},{"id":"151420","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151420","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44582a1b96a0b147c39f81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94925914c9679432255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:11:05 - 11:22:10","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":665,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:22:10+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:11:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":317,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時11分）有請秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：秘書長，就我的破題——國會改革缺一不可，國會改革需要符合程序正義，更需要合憲合規，國會改革要回應人民的期待，有權就要有責，這三個缺一不可的要素，您都支持嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為目前的……"],["吳委員思瑤：你就回答Yes or No，是不是都支持？這是基本ABC。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝吳委員。因為國會改革本來就是要一直漸進地改革，讓國會議員能夠代表人民行使職權。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，所以它當然要程序正義，當然要合憲合規，當然要權責相符，但是非常遺憾，我們的國會改革就從這週一被社會看見了，社會也撻伐了，逐條但不被審查，然後有案卻沒有辦法併案，所以我要再次說，程序不正義！這是可惜了國會改革。","我稍後會來檢視，我們都同意國會要更有武器，更能夠有效監督，但是國會的職能要提升，所以我們不能過當地只從擴權的方向去提案，我們應當在憲法給予的非常清楚的界限裡頭提出合憲的條文。然後權責也不能不相符，我們不期待，更是社會不期待的，只談擴權，不提立委自律跟課責的這種國會。三個要件都不具足，這就是國會的假改革。程序不正義，不合憲不合規，權責不相符，這就是名符其實的國會假改革，也是不折不扣的國會真擴權。","前一位委員羅智強委員，他真的很喜歡回顧歷史，修法要往前走，修法不能「倒退攄」，我們國會要更進步，修法不是在懷舊，不是在考古。我已經多次說明了，不需要東施效顰，要學就好好學，要抄條文就抄好的條文，民主進步黨2016的條文經過社會的檢視，沒有社會的共識，所以我們喊卡，這是負責任的權力自制。民主進步黨2016的條文正因為跟釋字第585號有關於調查跟聽證權的扞格，它是有違憲之虞的，所以民主進步黨即使居於國會多數，我們也不會強行輾壓。","在憲法之前，每一個人都要低頭，都要謙遜，羅委員很喜歡拿2016民主進步黨自己都已經認為經過檢視，不適宜再提出來的法案，結果現在羅智強委員一再地拿2016年的版本來奉為圭臬。修法不是懷舊，修法也不是文化資產一定要復舊如舊，修法就要進步、合憲、往前走，所以我這裡提出來有關於扞格了行政人事權，有關於超越了司法權跟監察權，有關於違反憲法增修條文第三條以及第四條第三款總統到立法院國情報告的憲法規定，這些都是現在國民黨版、民眾黨版所犯下的凌駕憲法的違憲條文，所以我這裡再一次列舉，違反大法官解釋不勝枚舉，認真的委員、虛心檢視的委員應當好好地去把這些釋憲案從頭到尾看一看。","民主進步黨的版本保障立委的質詢權，我想秘書長應當同意，為了讓議事人員好做事，也不會凡事都推給議事人員來當代罪羔羊，所以民進黨在職權行使法第二十一條提出，我們明定立委質詢的順序及時間，就不會再發生因為其他立委沒有到場或提早質詢結束，逼得主席當下不知道該如何是好，然後議事處的人員也急得如熱鍋上的螞蟻，不知道要怎麼樣來緩解這樣的狀況。這是過去30年立法院沒有發生的狀況！所以民進黨入法、法制化，讓委員的質詢時間予以法制化，您應當支持吧？這是避免議事人員未來的困擾，也不會讓韓國瑜院長未來有再一次的困擾，您同意吧？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為當時在黨團協商，我們有做過演繹……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我們就讓它入法，更周延。"],["周秘書長萬來：當然行使職權的程序，還是由審查會來做決定，不過我跟吳委員報告，經演繹的結果，程序上很容易處理，但將來會面臨的情況就變成要等待，如果這個委員臨時沒有來……"],["吳委員思瑤：沒關係，所以在修法過程，是不是由委員會……"],["周秘書長萬來：審查會可以去做決定。"],["吳委員思瑤：因為我們都把表定時間列好，這可以討論，很好，沒有問題，這就是修法需要逐條討論的意義嘛！有支持方，每一個議案的進行，每一個法案的實行，會有它更好的一面，也許會產生一些委員要在場等待的情形，但我相信多數的委員是願意等待的啦，因為憲法所賦予的立委質詢權是神聖不可剝奪的。剛剛秘書長提醒得非常好，這是韓國瑜院長所召開的朝野協商的結論，我們把它入法化、法制化。","我們來看看民進黨的第二個部分，就是完備人事同意權的行使程序，有關於記名或無記名，我也要糾正一下羅智強委員的說法，您的說法錯誤，民進黨團沒有去更正記名或無記名的修法，而是維持現行條文。國會從過去到現在，對於人事、對人的同意權一向是以無記名投票來為之，包括這一次大家在投立法院的韓國瑜院長就是如此，所以民進黨在職權行使法針對完備人事同意權的部分，我們在第二十九條、第三十條、第三十一條就是要讓它可以加嚴、加密地好好審查，而且民進黨的版本是可以輔助，召開公聽會，強化人事審議程序的多元、客觀、嚴謹性，我想這個部分在我們審議的過程當中，應當可以獲得社會、人民的支持，因為不管在憲法層級或法律層級的人事同意權，民主進步黨的立場就是讓它加嚴、加密地實質審查。","好，重中之重來了，為了不跟釋字第585號扞格，我們嚴格地檢視職權行使法調查、調閱的這個章節，民進黨在第八章裡頭分兩個章節分流處理，雙軌處理才不會有所扞格，權利義務也非常明確，所以我們的調查權是依憲法賦予立法院職權有重大關聯者，然後不得侵犯行政特權，不得調閱訴訟中案件，也詳訂了保密的義務，更增訂了利益迴避的義務，以及如果有人在調查、調閱的過程當中行使虛偽不實之陳述，我們也依憲法的授權，增訂行政罰，這是大法官解釋325號、585號、633號、729號的規範，我們都符合憲法的規範，所以民主進步黨2024的版本是有調查權、是有調閱權，請在野黨的委員不要來做虛偽不實的訊息傳散。","再次強調，沒有任何人可以在國會說謊，民主進步黨絕對要求在國會的每一個人都要基於事實去陳述，沒有任何人可以在國會說謊，所以如果有虛偽不實之陳述，依憲法的規範，依大法官釋字所賦予的授權，增訂相關的行政罰鍰，這是民主進步黨合憲的主張。但是民進黨不會支持國民黨版的藐視國會罪，因為它擴及人民，今天路人甲、路人乙都會被傳來國會問到滿、問到飽；今天任何一個企業，不管是中小企業還是大型企業，也會被立法院叫來調閱、調查，問到滿、問到飽。如果你講的答案不是立委要聽的，對不起，藐視國會罪，被關3年罰30萬，還有更高的罰鍰，這就是戕害人權。","最後，我要再次說明，國會改革就是權責相符，不能夠容許國會特偵組在這一次的在野黨版本裡頭去被創設出來，國民黨版本的國會特偵組、藐視國會罪就是要打造不折不扣的國會特權組，我們表示反對。我在這裡，對不起，占用了多一點的時間，因為這個議案非常的重要，也希望秘書長基於您的專業，基於您的經驗，基於您的臂膀，在審查的過程言所當言、為所當為，這是我們的歷史責任，好，謝謝秘書長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員，謝謝周秘書長。現在依先前的宣告，休息5分鐘。","休息（11時22分）","繼續開會（11時31分）"],["主席：繼續開會。先處理會議時間，中午不休息，上午會議繼續進行至討論事項各案的審查。","接下來請林委員思銘進行詢答。","是瑞雄？換過了嗎？好，請莊委員瑞雄進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.53659375,"end":5.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.75159375,"end":6.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.050968750000001,"end":22.930343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.90034375,"end":28.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.34721875,"end":28.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.48221875,"end":28.515968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.515968750000003,"end":39.822218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.53284375,"end":29.832218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.13596875,"end":31.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.05096875,"end":34.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.299093750000004,"end":44.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.610343750000006,"end":47.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.837843750000005,"end":68.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.76284375,"end":105.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.98909375000001,"end":112.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.68846875000001,"end":115.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.45159375,"end":127.43721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.70284375,"end":197.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.90721875,"end":200.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.72534375,"end":208.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.72409375,"end":216.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.25034375,"end":240.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.61346875,"end":242.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.50346875000002,"end":244.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.26284375,"end":255.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.92346875,"end":264.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.10346875,"end":265.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.97659375,"end":320.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.85846875000004,"end":340.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.25846875,"end":327.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.86534375,"end":331.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.86409375,"end":339.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.85534375000003,"end":352.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.18784375,"end":359.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.97471875,"end":365.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.53909375,"end":369.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.65659375,"end":393.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.18034375,"end":398.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.44971875000005,"end":401.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.58846875,"end":437.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.61659375000005,"end":451.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.28096875000006,"end":466.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.16471875,"end":468.73409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.42596875000004,"end":474.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.77096875,"end":479.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.19221875000005,"end":498.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.94034375,"end":553.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.45909375,"end":564.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.9384687500001,"end":583.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.56846875,"end":585.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.7959687499999,"end":591.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.60096875,"end":597.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.51971875,"end":599.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.5828437499999,"end":609.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.5390937500001,"end":612.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.1884687500001,"end":614.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.22596875,"end":616.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.60971875,"end":618.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.32659375,"end":621.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.51596875,"end":623.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.66346875,"end":624.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.33409375,"end":627.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.47721875,"end":629.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.14346875,"end":631.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.21471875,"end":634.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.36221875,"end":635.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.6953437500001,"end":636.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.18034375,"end":638.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.0703437500001,"end":640.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.07409375,"end":643.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.5209687500001,"end":645.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.9890937499999,"end":662.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.76284375,"end":665.1928437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.063,"end":22.454,"text":"民主黨就我的破題國會改革缺一不可國會改革需要符合程序正義更需要合憲合規國會改革要回應人民的期待有權就要有責下一頁這三個缺一不可的要素您都支持嗎"},{"start":25.933,"end":26.934,"text":"所以他當然要程序正義當然要合憲合規當然要選擇相輔下一頁"},{"start":45.646,"end":55.593,"text":"但是呢,非常遺憾,我們的國會改革就從這週一的被社會看見了,社會也撻伐了。竹條但不被審查,然後有案卻沒有辦法併案。"},{"start":62.458,"end":86.536,"text":"所以我要再次說程序不正義這是可惜了國會改革而我們再看看我稍後會來檢視我們都同意國會要更有武器更能夠有效監督但是國會的職能要提升所以呢我們不能過當的只從擴權的方向去提案"},{"start":87.256,"end":115.293,"text":"我們應當在憲法給予的非常清楚的界限裡頭提出合憲的條文然後權責也不能不相符我們不期待更是社會不期待的只談擴權不提立委的自律跟克責的這種國會三個要件都不具足這就是國會的假改革程序不正義不合憲不合規"},{"start":117.254,"end":125.72,"text":"選擇不相符,這就是民服其實的國會假改革,也是不折不扣的國會增擴權。」"},{"start":129.095,"end":152.766,"text":"我前一位委員羅志強委員他真的很喜歡回顧歷史喔修法要往前走修法不能逗退嚕我們國會要更進步修法不是在懷舊不是在考古我已經多次說明了不需要東施笑評要學就好好學要抄條文就抄好的條文"},{"start":157.228,"end":158.729,"text":"民主進步黨2016的條文經過社會的檢視沒有社會的公示所以我們喊卡這是負責任的權利自治民主進步黨2016的條文正因為跟憲法585號"},{"start":173.72,"end":181.542,"text":"有關於調查跟聽證權的漢格他是有違憲之餘的所以民主進步黨即使居於國會多數我們也不會強行碾壓在憲法之前每一個人都要低頭都要謙遜所以羅委員很喜歡拿2016民主進步黨自己都已經認為經過檢視不適宜再提出來的法案"},{"start":201.028,"end":219.633,"text":"結果現在羅志強委員一再的拿2016年的版本來奉為歸孽,修法不是懷舊,修法也不是文化資產,一定要復舊如舊,修法就要進步,合憲往前走。"},{"start":220.373,"end":240.246,"text":"所以我這裡提出來有關於漢格了行政人士權有關於要超越了司法權跟監察權有關於違反憲法第三、增修條文第三條以及四之三條的總統到立法院國情報告的憲法規定這些都是現在國民黨版"},{"start":241.667,"end":265.441,"text":"民眾黨黨所犯下的凌駕憲法的違憲條文。」所以我這裡再一次列舉違反大法官釋字不勝美舉。認真的委員、虛心檢視的委員應當好好的去把這些釋憲案從頭到尾看一看。下一頁。"},{"start":267.011,"end":271.797,"text":"民主進步黨的版本保障立委的職群權。我想民主黨應當同意為了讓議事人員好做事也不會凡事都推給議事人員來當代罪羔羊所以民進黨在職權行使法21條提出我們明定立委職群的順序及時間"},{"start":285.655,"end":295.682,"text":"就不會再發生一位其他立委沒有到場或提早諮詢結束然後也逼得主席當下也不知道該如何示好然後祕書處的人員也急得如火鍋上的螞蟻不知道要怎麼樣來緩解這樣的狀況這是過去30年立法院沒有發生的狀況"},{"start":304.548,"end":320.08,"text":"所以民進黨入法、法制化讓委員的質詢的時間予以法制化您應當支持吧這是避免我們議事人員未來的困擾也不會讓韓國瑜院長未來也會有再一次的困擾您同意吧"},{"start":322.001,"end":327.767,"text":"這個因為當時在黨團協商我們有做過演繹當然這個行使職權程序還是有審查會來做決定不過我只跟委員報告"},{"start":335.754,"end":338.195,"text":"因此我們都把表定時間列好,這可以討論,很好,沒有問題,這就是修法需要逐條討論的意義嗎?"},{"start":360.163,"end":369.476,"text":"有支持方每一個議案的進行每一個法案的執行會有它好更好的一面也許也會有"},{"start":370.977,"end":379.324,"text":"產生一些委員要在場等待的情形但我相信多數的委員是願意等待時間的啦因為憲法所賦予的立委職權權是神聖不可剝奪的也請這是一旬剛剛秘書長提醒的非常好這是韓國瑜院長所召開的朝野協商的結論我們把它入法化法制化下一頁"},{"start":394.275,"end":411.648,"text":"我們來看看民進黨的第二個部分就是完備人事同意權的行使程序有關於記名或無記名我也要糾正一下羅志祥委員的說法您的說法錯誤民進黨團沒有去更正記名或無記名的修法"},{"start":412.409,"end":429.042,"text":"而是維持現行條文。國會從過去到現在對於人事、對人的同意權一向是以無記名投票來為之。」包括這一次大家在投的立法院的韓國瑜院長。就是如此。所以民進黨在職權行使法爭奪完備人事同意權的部分我們在29條、30條、31條就是要讓它可以加嚴、加密"},{"start":437.688,"end":444.954,"text":"的好好審查而且民進黨的版本是可以輔助召開溝聽會強化人事審議程序的多元客觀嚴謹性我想這個部分我們在審議過程當中應當也可以獲得社會人民的支持因為不管在憲法層級或法律層級的人事同意權民主進步黨的立場就是讓他加嚴加密的實質審查謝謝下一頁"},{"start":467.196,"end":470.563,"text":"好,重中之重來了為了不跟憲法585號的釋字案漢革我們嚴格的檢視"},{"start":476.096,"end":497.279,"text":"職權行使法的調查調閱的這個章節。民進黨在第八章裡頭分兩個章節分流處理雙軌處理才不會有所漢格也在權力義務非常的明確所以我們的調查權是依憲法賦予立法院職權有重大關聯者"},{"start":499.028,"end":503.611,"text":"然後不得侵犯行政特權不得調閱訴訟中案件也詳定了保密的義務更增訂了利益迴避的義務以及如果有人在調查調閱的過程當中行使了這個虛偽不實之陳述我們也依法律的授權對不起是憲法的授權增訂行政法這是大法官解釋325號"},{"start":528.288,"end":552.096,"text":"五八五號六三三號七二九號的規範我們都符合憲法的規範所以民主進步黨2024的版本是有調查權是有調閱權請在野黨的委員不要來做虛偽不實的訊息傳散再次強調沒有任何人可以在國會說謊"},{"start":554.517,"end":580.429,"text":"民主進步黨絕對要求在國會的每一個人都要基於事實去陳述沒有任何人可以在國會說謊所以如果有虛偽不實質陳述依憲法的規範依大法官誓字所賦予的授權增訂相關的行政法環這是民主進步黨合憲的主張但是民進黨不會支持國民黨黨的藐視國會罪"},{"start":583.61,"end":597.026,"text":"因為他擴及人民今天路人甲路人乙都會被傳來國會問到滿問到飽今天任何一個企業不管是中小企業還是大型企業也會被立法院叫來"},{"start":599.844,"end":621.253,"text":"條約、調查、問道滿、問道保如果你講的答案不是立委要聽的對不起藐視國會罪被關三年罰三十萬還有更高的罰還這就是強害人權所以最後呢我要再次說明國會改革就是權責相符不能夠容許"},{"start":626.094,"end":640.345,"text":"國會特徵組在這一次的在野黨版本裡頭具備創設出來。國民黨的版本國會特徵組藐視國會罪就是要打造不折不扣的"},{"start":642.936,"end":655.543,"text":"國會特權組。」我們表示反對。我在這裡,對不起,佔用了多一點的時間,因為這個議案非常的重要。也希望秘書長基於您的專業,基於您的經驗,基於您的背膀,在審查的過程,言所當言,為所當為。這是我們的歷史責任。好,謝謝秘書長,謝謝主席。好,謝謝委員,謝謝周秘書長。"}]}},{"id":"151419","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151419","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4454101d3292f94cc1acc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c944c8ff0ad0dbab0055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:07:24 - 11:15:58","影片長度":"00:08:34","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":514,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:15:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:07:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":389,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時7分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：楊委員，你好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：委員長，恭喜你，你繼續留任喔！"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們看到現在有公布的閣員只有兩個女性，對不對？就是副院長鄭麗君小姐還有內政部的劉世芳小姐，占比只有13.3%，跟當時在選舉的時候準總統9月27日在台灣女董事協會論壇上面所提「以內閣女性三分之一以上作為目標」的政見承諾相比，似乎還有很大的空間，你知不知道未來是不是通通發表女性啊？如果要達到他說的三分之一，這是公開訊息啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，因為我不是閣揆，我沒有辦法回答這個問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有辦法回答這個問題？你的朋友很多啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：但是我在心裡面是跟委員一樣，我們都期許，因為我們是一個社會進步的國家，我們在國會有超過四成以上的女性國會議員，大家的表現非常傑出。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你看立法院就是率先啊！對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，在全世界都是非常好的表現。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且不是只有四分之一，它也往上升了。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個也就是行動創新的內閣沒有辦法去展現臺灣社會的多元性，你在僑委會方面，本席要請教你怎麼樣精進海外僑胞對國家的認同，就這一點公開的訊息，應該是達不到三分之一啦！不過還有一個但書，就是除非未來宣布的都是女性，那就可以達到了。"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，因為我們現在只有到第三波公布，我相信後面還有第四、第五、第六波。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，你認為賴準總統所講三分之一的目標還是會達成嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我相信賴準總統是很用心的想要達到這個目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你相信怎麼樣，這不是你可以決定的，你只能決定你的僑委會。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們僑委會對新內閣有什麼期待跟目標？"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝委員對我們的鼓勵，我們期待我們可以像國會一樣，我們的僑務委員目前的性別比例是從過去的1比9變成2比8，到這兩年我們終於達到三分之一的目標了。當然進一步我們希望……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請賴準總統跟你學習啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：我們是有時間持續這樣子一步一步往前進，所以我們也會繼續在未來的時間裡面努力，希望可以像國會一樣破4成。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們現在多元，但是你希望新內閣跟你有什麼目標？"],["徐委員長佳青：我想這一次的行動創新內閣就是希望我們所有部會閣員大家能夠站在服務人民的第一線立場，隨時保持機動性，就是Active！然後也要用創新的思維，innovative的概念來做政策的規劃跟服務，所以我們也長期有跟我們同仁溝通，雖然僑委會是一個九十多年的部會，相對來講是年紀很大了，可是我們應該要表現出來的活力應該隨時都不受年齡限制。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說的Active是現在這個新內閣喊出的。","接下來本席要請問你，第16任總統、副總統的就職典禮再1個月就要執行了，世界各國有很多慶賀團來，目前說有40個海外團體會來，大概有400位外賓，包括友邦元首，我們大家都很期待，你僑委會呢？你的僑民呢？目前為止有分兩個階段，5月10號之前，以及4月30號僑校的部分要去報名，你覺得會有多少人回來呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們從4月上旬開始公布報名系統以後，到目前已經報名了500位，報到5月10號，我們今年的評估，以座位區的規劃，我們是以1,500到1,700這個額度當作我們的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊，所以你還有三倍半的量。"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，剛剛最新的系統報名是到了870人。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那還有兩倍多的量啊！"],["徐委員長佳青：我們還有三個禮拜的報名時間。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要告訴你就是如果現在回來，10月份的國慶慶典也是非常重要。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你的誘因要好好去做好、溝通好。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們總是希望國家有生日、有慶典，我們的僑胞可以回來。"],["徐委員長佳青：10月份的時候，我們會安排更好的旅遊行程或什麼。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個是我們要超前去部署。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望大家一起同歡同樂，享受國家，這是我們必須要努力的。","再來，最後一個議題，我們針對i僑卡，上次本席有跟你討論過。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們3年的目標是多少呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：20萬張。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在多少張呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：已經破6萬張了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在6萬張，所以差距等於還有3倍的空間。"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，從上一次楊委員的關心之下，我們其實進步都很快，每一個禮拜我們都會增加1,000張以上。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：針對本席的提問，因為差距還有兩倍多，要怎麼去精進呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，我們1年可以達到6萬張。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：告訴你，1年6萬張，所以3年還是達不到你的20萬張，哪有人訂目標KPI，你要20萬張，但1年6萬張，3年18萬張，你自己漏氣自己啊？不可以這樣回答嘛！好，所以我們實際討論，海外的僑胞人數超過200萬，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：對，台僑人數超過200萬。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要怎麼樣去做數據的統計提供給我們的僑胞，更加配合、切合他們需要的服務？同時你們有沒有察覺你的目標，你很高興的告訴我1年有6萬，6萬乘以3等於18，你等於漏氣自己，你達不到你的KPI 20萬張，所以你應該要去好好想，怎麼樣在資安方面讓我們的僑胞放心這個卡沒問題，你要怎麼樣去連結大數據調查哪一些項目是我們僑胞需要的？你才可能達到你的20萬嘛！你連最基本的設定都達不到，你怎麼會笑得出來？要是我我是笑不出來。"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，我之所以會訂20萬，第一個，208萬的僑胞，以十分之一這樣子一個比例……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：數字我會計算。"],["徐委員長佳青：是，然後第二個是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我告訴你是說你今天自己制定的目標，你都預估達不到，你要怎麼去精進？告訴我方法。"],["徐委員長佳青：我們有很精進的方法一直在執行，在各個層面，包括我們有越來越多想學華語的人口，這些也會是我們要邀請他們辦理i僑卡……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：委員長，你是我滿敬佩的女性，如果說依照目前為止，我已經告訴你答案了，1年6萬，3年18萬，你的目標20萬已經達不到，如果你只有依照目前的方案，你根本達不到！所以本席要告訴你的是你去討論、去精進，怎麼樣可以達得到，兩百多萬的僑胞，我們的卡應該是要很榮耀，我有這一張有什麼優惠、有什麼連結，應該是很榮耀啊！為什麼人家不榮耀呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，我們來增加更多它的功能性跟實用性。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這樣回答就對了嘛！要好好檢討啦！好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要回答一個自己KPI都達不到，還笑得出來，這太離譜了！好不好？加油！"],["徐委員長佳青：好，謝謝楊委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝，謝謝楊委員。","接下來請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.08159375,"end":1.9209687500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.73096875,"end":3.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.2497187499999995,"end":4.755968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.19471875,"end":6.021593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.590343750000002,"end":12.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.73784375,"end":14.020343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.35784375,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.239093750000002,"end":19.082843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.96034375,"end":22.508468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.031593750000003,"end":24.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.06909375,"end":27.149093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.55409375,"end":31.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.418468750000002,"end":33.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.48971875,"end":47.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.55096875,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.81159375,"end":56.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.93346875,"end":60.797843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.28721875,"end":63.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.10534375,"end":67.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.38784375,"end":65.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.02471875,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.46096875,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.23284375,"end":89.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.28346875000001,"end":94.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.51471875,"end":91.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.49721875,"end":98.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.12096875,"end":101.29784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.90534375,"end":104.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.74034375000001,"end":107.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.01409375,"end":119.72534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.18096875,"end":122.79659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.23159375,"end":120.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.07096875,"end":139.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.90971875000001,"end":129.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.28034375000001,"end":133.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.23784375,"end":135.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.38909375,"end":139.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.95846875,"end":139.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.97534375,"end":142.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.29596875000001,"end":140.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.00034375,"end":142.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.30409375000002,"end":145.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.52721875,"end":145.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.94909375,"end":146.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.69159375,"end":165.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.37221875,"end":167.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.69659375,"end":179.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.69971875000002,"end":178.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.71596875,"end":181.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.65659375,"end":182.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.76596875,"end":220.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.06846875000002,"end":224.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.85659375,"end":225.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.12221875,"end":234.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.71159375000002,"end":263.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.73659375,"end":289.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.12096875000003,"end":288.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.03221875,"end":291.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.08284375,"end":289.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.40346875,"end":289.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.31034375,"end":297.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.34346875,"end":299.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.48659375,"end":298.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.62971875,"end":300.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.00096875,"end":321.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.99659375000005,"end":303.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.31534375,"end":313.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.02409375,"end":314.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.14159375,"end":318.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.36909375000005,"end":325.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.59659375,"end":323.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.41909375,"end":325.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.90409375,"end":325.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.92096875000004,"end":340.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.69284375,"end":328.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.62471875,"end":332.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.55159375,"end":347.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.14971875000003,"end":347.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.33534375000005,"end":347.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.40284375000005,"end":347.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.55471875,"end":347.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.62221875,"end":358.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.46159375,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.76846875,"end":358.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.28721875,"end":358.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.32096875,"end":370.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.50159375000004,"end":365.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.47096875,"end":384.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.49409375000005,"end":384.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.27034375000005,"end":420.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.60784375000003,"end":386.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.48846875000004,"end":426.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.81659375000004,"end":433.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.86596875000004,"end":447.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.24846875000003,"end":445.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.56034375,"end":455.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.08659375,"end":454.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.06534375,"end":469.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.73409375000006,"end":472.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.41284375000004,"end":472.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.66159375,"end":485.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.35596875000005,"end":503.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.59409375,"end":501.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.72471875,"end":506.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.75784375,"end":514.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.49159375000005,"end":509.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0772187499999,"end":514.3134687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.38,"end":5.803,"text":"謝謝主席,楊瓊瓔發言,邀請委員長。請委員長。楊委員你好。委員長,恭喜你喔。謝謝。繼續留任。那這個公布當中呢,我們看到女性啊,現在有公布的這兩個。"},{"start":27.644,"end":52.512,"text":"我們的副院長鄭麗君小姐還有內政部的劉思芳小姐那這個占比只有13.3%跟當時在選舉的時候準總統說的9月27日他在台灣女董事協會論壇上面他提以內閣女性三分之一以上作為目標的政見"},{"start":54.112,"end":55.833,"text":"沉默似乎還有很大的空間"},{"start":71.321,"end":98.253,"text":"但是我在心裡面我是跟委員一樣我們都期許因為我們這是一個社會進步的國家我們在國會有超過4成以上的女性國會議員大家表現非常傑出立法院你看率先了是在全世界都是非常好的一個表現他還往上升了是的那這個也就是行動創新的內閣他沒有辦法去展現台灣社會的多元性"},{"start":99.193,"end":119.06,"text":"那你在僑委會方面本身要請教你怎麼樣增進海外僑胞對國家的認同僑委會對新內閣你到底就這一點公開的訊息應該是達不到三分之一所以如果除非就是未來還有一個但書"},{"start":122.137,"end":142.711,"text":"委員因為我們現在只有到第三波公佈還有後面我相信還有第四第五第六波你對賴準總統認為三分之一的目標你還是會達成嗎我相信賴準總統是很有用心想要達到這個目標你相信怎麼樣不是你可以決定的決定你的僑委會你僑委會對新內閣你有什麼期待跟目標"},{"start":146.814,"end":147.014,"text":"那請賴準總統跟你學習啊"},{"start":169.193,"end":178.405,"text":"我們是有時間持續的這樣子一步一步往前進所以我們也會繼續在未來的時間裡面努力希望可以像國會一樣破事成但是你希望新內閣給你有什麼目標"},{"start":184.012,"end":189.297,"text":"我想這一次的行動創新內閣就是希望我們所有的部會閣員大家能夠站在服務人民的第一線立場隨時保持機動性就是active然後也要用創新的思維innovative的概念"},{"start":203.05,"end":203.47,"text":"執行局委員"},{"start":226.187,"end":243.462,"text":"接下來本校請問你在第16任的這個總統跟副總統的這個就職典禮當中在一個月就要執行了那世界各國有很多的這個慶賀團來那目前他說有40個海外的團體會來大概有400位的"},{"start":244.382,"end":250.125,"text":"僑委會僑民目前為止有分兩個階段5月10日之前以及4月30日僑校的這個部分要去報名你覺得我們的這個會有多少人回來呢"},{"start":264.152,"end":272.94,"text":"我們從4月上旬開始公布這個報名的系統以後呢到目前已經報名了500位報到5月10號那我們今年的評估是以這個座位區的規劃我們是以1500到1700這個額度當作我們的這個"},{"start":288.755,"end":294.119,"text":"所以還有三倍半的量跟委員報告剛剛最新的系統報名是到870人那還有兩倍的量我們還有三個禮拜的報名時間本席要告訴你就是說因為如果現在回來那十月份的國慶慶典也是非常重要是的"},{"start":311.112,"end":324.478,"text":"所以你的誘因要好好去做好溝通好我們總是希望國家有生日有這個慶典那我們的這個對十月份的時候我們會安排更好的這個旅遊行程或什麼"},{"start":325.956,"end":339.986,"text":"我們要超前去部署我們希望大家一起同歡同樂享受國家這是我們必須要努力的再來最後一個議題我們針對愛喬卡上次本席有跟你討論過那你們三年的目標是多少呢20萬張20萬張現在多少張呢"},{"start":343.348,"end":344.848,"text":"委員我們一年可以達到6萬張告訴你一年6萬張所以你三年還達不到你的20萬張"},{"start":370.555,"end":371.857,"text":"所以來我們實際討論海外的僑胞人數超過200萬對不對對"},{"start":386.052,"end":410.939,"text":"臺僑人數超過200那你要怎麼樣去做數據的一個統計來提供給我們的僑胞更加配合、切合他們需要的這個服務同時為什麼你妹妹去察覺你的目標你很高興的告訴我一年有6萬6萬6乘以3等於18你等於肉氣自己你達不到你的KPI20萬張所以你應該要去好好去詳實"},{"start":412.119,"end":433.28,"text":"我要怎麼樣讓治安讓我們的僑胞放心你這個卡沒問題你要怎麼樣去連結大數據去調查哪一些的項目是我們僑胞需要的你才可能達到你的20萬碼你連最基本的設定都達不到你怎麼會笑得出來要是我我是笑不出來"},{"start":434.892,"end":454.951,"text":"委員我之所以會定20萬是第一個208萬的僑胞以十分之一這樣子的一個比例我會計算數字我會計算然後第二個是說我告訴你是說你今天自己制定的目標你都預估達不到你要怎麼去精進告訴我方法"},{"start":455.491,"end":457.133,"text":"委員長 您是我蠻敬佩的女性"},{"start":473.75,"end":492.193,"text":"如果說你依照目前為止,我已經告訴你答案了,一年六萬,三年十八萬,你的目標二十萬已經達不到,如果你只有依照目前的方案,你根本達不到。所以本行要告訴你的是,你去討論,去精進,怎麼樣可以達得到兩百多萬,"},{"start":493.234,"end":493.454,"text":"主席主席"}]}},{"id":"151418","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151418","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445a553bece397521db04d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c943fcf17fe098d76155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"11:04:33 - 11:16:05","影片長度":"00:11:32","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":692,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:16:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:04:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":884,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時4分）好，謝謝主席，請經濟部王部長，休息。"],["主席（謝委員衣鳯代）：你請他休息？你講快一點。"],["邱委員志偉：休息一下，他從早上忙到現在。請國貿署江署長、能源署李副署長、中小及新創企業署何署長。"],["主席：江署長。"],["邱委員志偉：水利署賴署長。"],["主席：能源署。"],["邱委員志偉：還有園區管理局楊局長，一起上來好了。今天審基金的幾個部分，我先問推廣貿易基金，這是經特的部分。江署長，基金來源今年編列多少錢？"],["江署長文若：基金來源113年編列67億。"],["邱委員志偉：好，主要是因為出口總值增加。"],["江署長文若：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你的基金用途變成多少錢？"],["江署長文若：用途是58億左右。"],["邱委員志偉：是國際市場開發。"],["江署長文若：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你要新開發哪些國際市場？"],["江署長文若：國際市場的話是全面的，只要廠商……"],["邱委員志偉：沒有，應該有幾個重點，不可能全面，今年的幾個重點在哪裡？"],["江署長文若：主要的，第一個是幫廠商爭取更多買主，所以會邀請主要的買主來臺灣。第二個部分是到國際上參加相關的展覽或者相關的推廣活動。"],["邱委員志偉：去年也有相關的計畫，針對去年基金用途在國際市場開發的部分，是不是可以把這個成果的相關資料提供給我？"],["江署長文若：好，我們會給委員。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，CPTPP也是你們重要的重點。"],["江署長文若：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：當然經貿辦也很重要，就你個人的預估，臺灣加入CPTPP最樂觀是什麼時候可以加入？"],["江署長文若：這個是我們一直努力的目標，委員也有成立一個CPTPP的聯盟。"],["邱委員志偉：對，我現在說你預估啦！我的時間有限，你預估最樂觀、最悲觀的狀況，最樂觀臺灣什麼時候可以加入CPTPP？"],["江署長文若：我們會盡最大的努力，持續跟相關的會員……"],["邱委員志偉：當然一定要盡最大的能力，我問你樂觀跟悲觀的情形，最樂觀的狀況，我們什麼時候可以加入？你給我一個期程表嘛！"],["江署長文若：這個部分我們會盡最大的努力……"],["邱委員志偉：哎呦喂呀！"],["江署長文若：因為這個時間的決定必須要成立一個入會的工作小組。"],["邱委員志偉：署長，你當然要盡最大的努力，我只問你什麼時候？我盡我的全力，從國會協助臺灣加入CPTPP。你要有一個目標值，最樂觀我們什麼時候可以加入CPTPP？"],["江署長文若：這個時間表可能沒有辦法由我方決定，必須所有的會員都要有共識，所以目前……"],["邱委員志偉：請部長。你都不講，我本來請部長休息。連樂觀的狀況你們都講不出來，部長，樂觀的話我們什麼時候可以入CPTPP？"],["王部長美花：委員，確實比較抱歉，要在他們那邊成立比如說入會工作小組來啟動。"],["邱委員志偉：這個我都很熟。"],["王部長美花：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你們總要有個目標值，最樂觀我們什麼時候可以加入？很多非操之在我、可操之在我，可操之在我的部分我們全力做好了，我當召委的時候，相關的法律修正案也都修完了，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["邱委員志偉：商標法等全部修完了。"],["王部長美花：沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：你要有一個工作期程給駐外單位，說什麼時候我們要加入，這樣才有工作壓力，有壓力才有動力。"],["王部長美花：我們臺灣是被審的，事實上，外館非常積極爭取，讓相關的會員成立入會工作小組，但是確實這個部分比較不是操之在我。"],["邱委員志偉：好，部長先回座。經濟特別收入有5項基金，我跳過來先問水資源，賴署長，今年總收入多少？"],["賴署長建信：什麼？"],["邱委員志偉：水資源的總收入多少？"],["賴署長建信：90億左右。"],["邱委員志偉：支出大於收入？"],["賴署長建信：對。"],["邱委員志偉：支出主要是擴大清淤，阿公店水庫今年有沒有清淤計畫？"],["賴署長建信：今年還是會持續在茄萣清淤，還有包括……"],["邱委員志偉：阿公店水庫有沒有清淤？"],["賴署長建信：有。"],["邱委員志偉：有清淤？"],["賴署長建信：對。"],["邱委員志偉：阿公店水庫清淤的目標值跟花的預算，你提供資料給我。"],["賴署長建信：好，完全沒問題。"],["邱委員志偉：另外岡山潭底滯洪池，你們目前規劃怎麼樣？"],["賴署長建信：潭底滯洪池可能要看……"],["邱委員志偉：可行性怎麼樣？"],["賴署長建信：我們現在要看整個預算的來源。"],["邱委員志偉：你把相關的進度再彙整一下給我。"],["賴署長建信：好。"],["邱委員志偉：滯洪池也是你們管的，對不對？"],["賴署長建信：對。"],["邱委員志偉：岡山有典寶溪A、B、D滯洪池，有前鋒子滯洪池，也有五甲尾滯洪池，有關它的綠美化，你們要當做一個觀光據點，甚至發電，是多功能的，對不對？發電有收入，觀光則讓附近的居民能夠有一些休閒娛樂場所，那麼植樹要做好，相關的比方說洗手間、附屬設施，你們也要完整規劃。"],["賴署長建信：沒有問題，這個部長非常重視，未來我們還會改善得更好。"],["邱委員志偉：我每天去那邊運動，還是有人抱怨公共設施還不夠、植栽做得不夠好、樹不夠大，熱得要死，這部分請加強，好嗎？"],["賴署長建信：好。"],["邱委員志偉：接下來請問中小企業署何署長，比較少人問你，今年中小企業發展署的基金來源有多少錢？"],["何署長晉滄：國庫要撥補27億。"],["邱委員志偉：28億還是27億？"],["何署長晉滄：27億國庫撥補，然後其他我們有一些收入大概九千多萬。"],["邱委員志偉：28億是今天要審的你們的基金來源，林口新創園區，你們針對這些新創園區要做到南北平衡，南部有沒有相關新創園區的規劃？"],["何署長晉滄：南部目前是亞灣，在高雄。"],["邱委員志偉：高雄很大，有分南高雄、北高雄，北高雄也要重視，那個亞灣在南高雄，是賴瑞隆那邊，你當然要重視，我這邊你也不能忽視啊！"],["何署長晉滄：有。"],["邱委員志偉：北高雄是未來S廊帶的核心，裡面有新創。"],["何署長晉滄：我們有支持一些學校的育成中心，他們也有……"],["邱委員志偉：小規模，那不能相比，不僅是臺灣的南北要平衡，高雄的南北也要平衡。很多資源放在高雄南邊，固然我支持，但是你也不能忽視高雄北邊，高雄北邊是未來高雄市進步繁榮發展的一個核心區啊！所以，新創事業，你要超前部署。"],["何署長晉滄：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以我要求你，是不是未來除了亞灣之外，在高雄的北邊也能夠去規劃一個新創園區？"],["何署長晉滄：我們再來找找看有沒有適合的地點。"],["邱委員志偉：地點都是你們的，台糖很多地啊！"],["何署長晉滄：沒有，沒有，那個要重新蓋的話，可能……"],["邱委員志偉：這個部長你支持嗎？點個頭就好了。部長也支持啊，所以三個月之內，針對在北高雄成立新創聚落或新創園區，請主管單位中小企業署提出一個完整的規劃說明，好不好？"],["何署長晉滄：好。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，新創事業當然需要更多政府的協助，我希望你能夠針對中南部的中小企業或中南部的新創事業，提供更多具體的協助。"],["何署長晉滄：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你在北部，一方面北部可能相對的資源比較多，相對的人才都集中在這邊，但南部也有人才，南部也有新創的需求，所以南部的新創基地，特別是高雄，新創的資源分配要多一點在高雄，特別是北高雄。"],["何署長晉滄：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以，署長，這部分我會定期的跟你做討論，你需要把你過去一年執行的狀況，針對你在高雄扶植新創產業的具體成果，是不是在一個月之內給我相關的資料？"],["何署長晉滄：好。"],["邱委員志偉：最後，有關再生能源，李副署長，再生能源今年的規模是多少？"],["李副署長君禮：再生能源大概六點多億，再生能源基金並不大，目前我們推動再生能源的費用大部分是在石油基金裡面。"],["邱委員志偉：你今年主要的基金用途是在增加太陽能申設的流程優化。"],["李副署長君禮：是。"],["邱委員志偉：這個部分你能不能具體再說明一下？"],["李副署長君禮：是，太陽能的申設主要是用在地面型的，因為案件非常多，目前一年大概有六、七千件的案件，尤其是地面型的，有涉及一些環境的議題，還有土地的程序。"],["邱委員志偉：流程要優化，那所謂模組的回收費是什麼東西？"],["李副署長君禮：模組的回收費是指太陽光電未來20年經濟壽齡到了之後，就會變成廢棄物，我們現在是要求……"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼要由你們來回收呢？"],["李副署長君禮：我們是提供一個基金，它在設置的時候就要繳每瓩1,000元的基金，作為未來處理的費用，也就是說經濟壽齡完成之後要處理它的廢棄物，這需要一筆錢，這個我們是跟環境部合作的，我們在一開始的時候就把它收齊了，免得未來20年到了他就跑掉了，所以我們等於是把錢放在那裡，作為未來處理廢棄物使用。"],["邱委員志偉：這可能會越來越多。"],["李副署長君禮：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以未來基金用途可能這個錢會不夠，未來時間到，這個回收的費用一定會越來越增加。"],["李副署長君禮：費用我們會定期來檢討，我們會根據處理的成本做一個公式來考慮。"],["邱委員志偉：最後請教一下楊伯耕局長。"],["楊局長伯耕：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：都有問到了。我的白埔產業園區你什麼時候要給我？"],["楊局長伯耕：向委員報告，白埔園區目前是高雄市政府在規劃。"],["邱委員志偉：我當然知道啊，因為那是我爭取才有的。現在高雄市政府變成橋科的第二期，對不對？"],["楊局長伯耕：所以上次有跟委員報告……"],["邱委員志偉：你要還給我一塊。"],["楊局長伯耕：有，上次已經跟委員報告過，就是在橋科南方，我們又找了一塊……"],["邱委員志偉：要在我選區喔，你不要……"],["楊局長伯耕：一定會找到。"],["邱委員志偉：已經有確定的區位了嗎？"],["楊局長伯耕：目前是看中橋科南方的一塊土地。"],["邱委員志偉：既然已經確定區位，就開始啟動作業流程，因為國土計畫實施之後，相關的地目還要變更。"],["楊局長伯耕：是。"],["邱委員志偉：這個部分我當然討論過好幾次，但是越早啟動，到時候才能趕快提供給中小企業或傳統產業建廠。"],["楊局長伯耕：是，會跟委員報告進度。"],["邱委員志偉：好，王部長，你辛苦了。"],["主席：現在請林德福委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":1.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.57096875,"end":0.7565937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.712843750000001,"end":12.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19.58909375,"end":20.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":21.91784375,"end":23.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23.74034375,"end":24.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.887843750000002,"end":25.461593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.49534375,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":25.512218750000002,"end":26.980343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27.95909375,"end":28.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.02659375,"end":29.089718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":29.089718750000003,"end":31.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":32.07659375,"end":32.650343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":32.970968750000004,"end":34.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":34.60784375,"end":36.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.05471875,"end":37.071593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":37.071593750000005,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.12221875,"end":37.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.96596875,"end":38.016593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.016593750000006,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":38.52284375,"end":40.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.59034375,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.13034375,"end":39.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":41.13846875,"end":41.830343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.931593750000005,"end":42.049718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":42.657218750000006,"end":44.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.407843750000005,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":47.06159375,"end":48.462218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":49.01909375,"end":50.166593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":50.875343750000006,"end":51.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":53.625968750000006,"end":54.891593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":56.393468750000004,"end":57.962843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":57.962843750000005,"end":58.165343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.806593750000005,"end":63.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":63.61596875,"end":68.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":68.03721875000001,"end":68.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":68.96534375,"end":69.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":69.97784375,"end":73.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":73.20096875,"end":74.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.90534375,"end":75.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":75.29346875,"end":77.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.38596875,"end":77.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.95971875000001,"end":84.45659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":81.94221875000001,"end":82.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":84.96284375,"end":92.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.97846875,"end":101.31471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":101.31471875000001,"end":109.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":110.10659375,"end":115.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.19096875000001,"end":110.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.22471875000001,"end":110.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":110.56221875000001,"end":110.57909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.40596875000001,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.16909375,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":115.40534375,"end":123.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.55596875,"end":127.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":127.70721875000001,"end":131.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":129.90096875,"end":138.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":137.30909375000002,"end":141.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":139.51971875,"end":146.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":147.34971875000002,"end":155.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":150.50534375,"end":151.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":152.41221875000002,"end":152.86784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":153.35721875000002,"end":163.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.76909375,"end":163.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":163.88721875000002,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.92096875000001,"end":171.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":170.29971875,"end":171.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":171.97034375,"end":172.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":172.62846875000002,"end":174.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":176.44221875000002,"end":179.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.66534375,"end":179.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":179.96909375,"end":179.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":180.08721875,"end":182.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.25971875000002,"end":192.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":191.25846875000002,"end":211.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.89346875,"end":205.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":211.96409375000002,"end":213.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.41534375,"end":214.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":214.07346875000002,"end":215.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.23784375000002,"end":230.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":228.95721875,"end":230.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":230.47596875000002,"end":233.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":233.83409375000002,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":235.84221875000003,"end":236.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":237.04034375,"end":239.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":240.17909375000002,"end":241.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":241.61346875,"end":246.84471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":246.94596875000002,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.02534375000002,"end":252.27846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.78471875000002,"end":257.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.79659375,"end":259.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":258.43784375,"end":258.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":258.69096875,"end":258.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":258.74159375,"end":258.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":259.07909375,"end":259.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.16346875,"end":259.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":259.28159375,"end":269.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.25471875,"end":269.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":269.72721875,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.74409375,"end":275.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":271.56659375000004,"end":272.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.97096875,"end":276.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":277.05096875000004,"end":309.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.02909375,"end":309.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.50159375000004,"end":311.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":311.98221875,"end":318.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":311.99909375000004,"end":315.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":320.30159375,"end":325.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.23784375,"end":323.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.96346875,"end":324.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":325.83659375,"end":327.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":328.16534375000003,"end":328.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":331.57409375000003,"end":334.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":335.89409375,"end":336.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":336.73784375,"end":337.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":339.06659375000004,"end":341.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":342.35721875,"end":343.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.82534375,"end":344.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.85471875,"end":346.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":347.31846875,"end":348.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.58409375,"end":352.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":353.96721875000003,"end":365.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.45659375,"end":354.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":366.92721875,"end":369.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.09971875,"end":372.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":373.25534375,"end":378.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":379.16159375,"end":384.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":384.86534375,"end":385.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.03409375,"end":385.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":385.15221875000003,"end":385.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.18596875000003,"end":385.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":385.20284375,"end":388.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.21971875,"end":385.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.17721875,"end":392.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":391.21034375000005,"end":398.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":398.39909375,"end":402.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":403.25909375000003,"end":409.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":409.73909375000005,"end":413.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":414.29534375000003,"end":416.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":416.74221875,"end":422.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":422.19284375,"end":426.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":426.27659375,"end":434.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":435.22034375000004,"end":436.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":437.71784375000004,"end":448.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":448.65284375000005,"end":451.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":452.09534375000004,"end":453.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":454.44096875,"end":456.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":457.63034375,"end":467.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":468.61596875000004,"end":470.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":470.55659375000005,"end":470.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":471.50159375000004,"end":473.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":473.59409375,"end":481.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":481.79534375000003,"end":484.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":485.65971875,"end":486.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":486.23346875000004,"end":488.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":488.05596875000003,"end":488.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":488.10659375000006,"end":491.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":492.57846875,"end":496.12221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":496.37534375,"end":505.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":506.06159375000004,"end":507.09096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":507.74909375000004,"end":508.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":508.99784375,"end":510.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":510.76971875000004,"end":511.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":512.01846875,"end":512.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":512.86221875,"end":513.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":514.97159375,"end":517.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":517.7053437500001,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":519.73034375,"end":520.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":520.6753437500001,"end":523.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.66221875,"end":531.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":532.6397187499999,"end":532.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":533.4665937500001,"end":539.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.9509687500001,"end":539.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":539.9297187500001,"end":540.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":541.51596875,"end":543.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.09784375,"end":559.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":558.3740937499999,"end":561.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.1753437500001,"end":561.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":561.93471875,"end":561.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.95159375,"end":572.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":571.5703437500001,"end":573.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.62909375,"end":600.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":601.1015937500001,"end":610.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.6497187500001,"end":604.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.3828437500001,"end":617.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":617.8247187500001,"end":620.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":621.0815937500001,"end":621.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":621.9253437500001,"end":622.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":624.3215937500001,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":625.9753437500001,"end":627.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":627.4265937499999,"end":635.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":631.83096875,"end":640.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":637.61909375,"end":638.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":638.3953437499999,"end":638.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":638.98596875,"end":649.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":649.1615937500001,"end":649.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":649.4484687500001,"end":651.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":651.2878437500001,"end":683.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":668.92221875,"end":669.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":681.3928437500001,"end":682.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":683.5190937500001,"end":686.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.5903437500001,"end":686.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":686.6072187500001,"end":686.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.7253437500001,"end":686.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":690.9778437500001,"end":691.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.18034375,"end":691.31534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":20.232,"end":24.094,"text":"謝謝主席請經濟部王部長休息"},{"start":28.001,"end":30.942,"text":"今天整基金幾個部分先問推廣貿易基金這是經特的部分基金來源今年變成多少錢"},{"start":56.468,"end":68.927,"text":"基金來源今年編列多少錢基金來源我們113年編列67億主要是因為你的出口總值增加那你的這個基金用途編列多少錢"},{"start":70.014,"end":92.493,"text":"用途是58億左右那是國際市場開發對哪些國際市場你要先開發我們國際市場的話是全面的就是只要應該有幾個重點嗎不可能說全面的今年的幾個重點在哪裡主要的第一個是幫廠商爭取更多的買主所以會邀請主要的買主"},{"start":94.095,"end":109.296,"text":"臺灣第2個部分是到國際上去參加相關的展覽或者相關的這個推廣的活動。去年也有相關的計劃嗎?是不是該把去年你們這個針對基金用途在國際市場開發的部分,把這成果是不是可以提供?"},{"start":110.458,"end":122.878,"text":"相關資料提供給我,另外CPTPP也是你們重要的重點,就您個人的預估當然經貿辦也很重要,你個人預估台灣加入CPTPP最樂觀是什麼時候可以加入?"},{"start":124.238,"end":141.067,"text":"這個是我們一直會努力的目標,然後這個委員也有成立一個CPTPP的一個聯盟我現在預估,因為我時間有限,你預估最樂觀、最悲觀、最樂觀是什麼時候我們臺灣可以有CPTPP我們會盡我們最大的努力,持續的跟相關的會員我問你,樂觀跟悲觀,最樂觀我們什麼時候可以,大概給我一個期程表嘛"},{"start":147.843,"end":154.769,"text":"這個時間表我們可能沒有辦法由我方來決定因為必須要所有的會員都要有共識請部長 請部長你都不講啊 我說請部長休息"},{"start":176.499,"end":177.56,"text":"連樂觀你們都講不出來來部長樂觀的話我們什麼時候可以教習"},{"start":183.912,"end":206.87,"text":"委員確實比較抱歉 因為確實要在他們這邊成立 譬如說入會工作小組來啟動我都很熟啦 但你們說有個目標值最多關我們什麼時候可以加入 很多非操是在我 可操是在我可操是在我們部分 我們全體都說好了 我當時稍微有時候把香港的法律修正案也都修完了對不對 商標法什麼的全部修完了"},{"start":207.13,"end":234.939,"text":"沒錯那你要有個工作期程給駐外單位說什麼時候我們要加入這才有工作的壓力嘛有壓力才有動力啊因為我們台灣是被審的這個部分那事實上這個外管非常非常的積極來爭取讓他們相關的會員來成立入會的這個工作小組那但是確實這個部分不是比較操作好部長你先回座那個因為經濟特別收入有五項基金齁我先跳過來先問問水資源這個邱市長"},{"start":238.082,"end":251.781,"text":"今年總收入是多少?91億左右支出是大於收入?對支出主要是擴大7億阿公亮嘴口,你今天有沒有7億?"},{"start":252.987,"end":268.62,"text":"今年還是持續會在前提裡面做輕益還有包括阿公店水庫有沒有輕益有有有有輕益齁對你把阿公店水庫輕益的目標值跟花的預算你提供給他給我齁完全沒問題因為潭嶺志鴻池岡山齁潭嶺志鴻池你們目前規劃怎麼樣"},{"start":270.282,"end":287.984,"text":"臺體滯洪池的部分可能要看我們現在要看整個預算的來源你把相關的進度再混一下給我那滯洪池也是你們管的嘛對不對對我剛才有這個聯邦學習A、B、D滯洪池有前紅號滯洪池"},{"start":289.125,"end":289.265,"text":"發言委員：邱志偉"},{"start":309.808,"end":316.253,"text":"這個沒有問題 這個部長非常重視啊我們每天去那邊運動還是有人冒言說公共施展不夠這個職災做得不夠好請問請加強好不好好 那接下來這個中小企業署委員好 何處長 比較少人問你這個你今年啊"},{"start":339.113,"end":365.519,"text":"你這個中小企業發展署你這個基金來源是多少錢?這個國庫要撥補27億28、27億27億國庫撥補然後其他我們有一些收入大概9000多萬好啦28億28億是今天要省的你們這個基金來源是林口新創園區你們針對這些新創園區要做到南北平衡阿"},{"start":366.997,"end":377.533,"text":"南部有沒有相關新創園區的規劃南部目前是雅灣在高雄那是高雄有分很大有南高雄北高雄北高雄也要重視"},{"start":379.209,"end":402.262,"text":"你那個雅雯在南高雄是賴瑞榮那邊你當然要重視我這邊你也不能忽視啊北高雄是未來S囊帶的核心耶你也有新創學校的這個育成中心啊他們也有設一些新創拿什麼不能相比你要拿出這個不僅是台灣的南北平衡高雄的南北要平衡"},{"start":403.308,"end":413.058,"text":"你很多資源放在這個高雄南邊固然我支持但是你也不能忽視這個高雄北邊高雄北邊是未來高雄市進步繁榮發展的一個核心區"},{"start":414.355,"end":435.413,"text":"所以你新創事業你要這個超檢部署所以我要求你是不是在未來除了雅灣之外在高雄的北邊你能夠去規劃一個這個新創園區我們再來找看有沒有適合的地點地點都是你們的台南很多地啊沒有沒有那個要重新蓋的話那可能這個部長你支持嗎點頭就好了"},{"start":437.759,"end":455.032,"text":"部長的支持所以一個月之內針對在北高雄成立這個中小企業組你主管的成立這個新創這個聚落或新創園區提出一個完整的規劃說明撒各位好不好另外你要提供對這個新創事業"},{"start":457.694,"end":484.1,"text":"新創事業當然需要更多的這個政府的協助我希望你能夠這個針對中南部的中小企業也好或中南部的新創事業也好提供更多具體的協助北部當然這個一方面北部可能相對資源比較多相對的人才也都集中在這邊南部也有人才南部也有這個新創需求所以對南部新創基地特別是高雄"},{"start":486.377,"end":513.07,"text":"這個新創的資源分配要多一點在高雄特別是北高雄所以署長這部分我會定期的跟你做討論你需要把你的這個過去一年執行的狀況針對高雄在南部對高雄你扶植的新創產業的具體的成果是一個月之內是不是給我相關的資料好 是最後這個"},{"start":515.395,"end":531.356,"text":"再生能源,再生能源就是李副署長是再生能源規模是多少?再生能源大概6點多億,再生能源基金並不大那目前我們推動再生能源的費用大部分是在需要基金裡面"},{"start":532.731,"end":548.284,"text":"你你今年的這個主要的基金用途是在增加太陽能深色的留神優化是是這個經費這個部分啊你能不能具體再說明一下是主要是太陽能的深色主要是地面型的用在地面型的"},{"start":548.404,"end":548.965,"text":"那你那個所謂模組的回收費是什麼東西?"},{"start":563.866,"end":583.359,"text":"模組的回收費是我們現在太陽光電未來現在用它20年的經濟受領到了之後它就會變成廢棄物那我們現在是要求那你為什麼要由你來回收呢我們是提供一個基金它在設置的時候它就要繳每K瓦是1000元的基金作為未來處理的費用也就是說它經濟受領完成之後"},{"start":585.28,"end":600.122,"text":"要處理他的飛機物那這要一筆錢那這個我們是跟環境部合作的那我們在一開始的時候就把它收起了免得他未來以後20年到他就跑掉了所以我們是等於錢放在那裡作為未來處理飛機物使用"},{"start":601.638,"end":602.599,"text":"最後請教一下楊博跟楊局長"},{"start":625.004,"end":650.547,"text":"白浦財運園區你什麼時候要給我?像委員報告白浦園區的部分目前是高雄市政府在規劃我當然知道啊那現在是爭取才有的對那現在高雄市政府變成這個喬科的第二區對不對所以上次有跟委員報告那你要還給我一塊有有現在已經上次有跟委員報告過就是那個在喬科的南方的部分我們要找一塊哎呀我在我選區啊你不要對對對一定會找到"},{"start":651.387,"end":675.593,"text":"已經有確定的區位了嗎?目前是看重喬科南方的有一塊土地既然已經確定區位就開始啟動作業流程因為你這個國土計畫實施之後還要相關的地目變更這個當然我知道這個部分我當然討論過好幾次但是越早啟動你到時候才能趕快這個"},{"start":676.673,"end":686.002,"text":"提供給這個中小企業或雙小企業他們建廠的需求是好的是好謝謝跟委員報告進度好那那個王部長你辛苦了"}]}},{"id":"151417","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151417","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445264ffa17ba5ed07457f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c94a3fdef050e3855615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:04:17 - 11:14:48","影片長度":"00:10:31","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":631,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:14:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:04:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":446,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時4分）感謝召委，有請次長。"],["主席：我們請次長，謝謝。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["范委員雲：次長早。我今天也是要跟你談大學法的相關問題，次長應該非常知道北大生、北大學生會出來抗議的事情，出現了學生代表依照大學法保障的學生自治會代表居然在校務基金會的管理委員會當中，被校友會長反映不能關麥克風，然後校長還冷回，這不是你的麥克風，是學校的麥克風，校務基金管理委員會居然可以不聽學生的聲音，請問次長，這要怎麼辦？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，這個事前我們也在……"],["范委員雲：也在瞭解中嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：沒有，我們也有跟校長溝通，這的確不好，在這種過程當中，當然還是應該要來跟學生充分溝通。"],["范委員雲：再請問次長，你知不知道同一所大學最近又傳出都上新聞了，副校長跟系學會應該是講系主任，這邊寫錯了，介入了學生會的選舉，幫學生繳會費，請學生吃飯，要學生為了系上的利益參選，請問一下次長，這個是不是已經踐踏了學生自治？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，這件事情我們也是這兩天知道的，我們還在瞭解真實的情況。當然如果真的是這樣的話，的確是非常地不宜，因為這就破壞了整個跟學生之間的信任關係。"],["范委員雲：瞭解。這不只是不宜，這應該就是已經違反了大學法的行為。當然就是說，因為次長還在調查中嘛！什麼時候可以給本委員會的我跟關心的委員一個報告好嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：好，給我們一個禮拜。"],["范委員雲：一個禮拜內，好。如果違反大學法的話，也希望教育部有具體的行為好嗎？因為我想這個已經上新聞了，各校都在看，這樣的行為是非常地讓人遺憾也滿誇張的。當然我覺得，這個其實跟我們的制度規範，我認為這好像被操弄了，我想次長非常瞭解，我們校務基金會設置條例有規定，委員「其餘由校長遴選提經校務會議同意後聘任之」，這個沒有疑義嘛！教育部定的行政命令第五條有這個校務基金「管理委員會委員應有學生代表至少一人」，這沒錯吧？剛剛那個國立臺北大學的場景，就是在這個校務基金管理委員會，涉及到錢的事情，特別敏感對不對？所以我們要有清楚的規範。我想請問次長，學生代表的意思是不是就是由學生推選的才叫學生代表？"],["劉次長孟奇：如果按照現在的條文，它基本上還是看學校自己訂定的方式。"],["范委員雲：次長，這是學生代表，如果是校方指派的、校方推選的，就不叫學生代表了吧！否則我們的學生會長都由校長推選就好了。學生代表、民意代表，什麼叫做「代表」？民意代表就是由人民選舉出來的嘛！要不然我們過去的老國大為什麼被認為不是代表？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，它的學生代表的確應該要有學生的意見基礎。"],["范委員雲：應該是學生推選出來的嘛！"],["劉次長孟奇：對，只是說它的意見基礎是怎麼產生出來的，看是走院的還是怎樣，但是基本上……"],["范委員雲：不會是由校方遴選推舉、學校指派的吧？"],["劉次長孟奇：應該說所謂的「指派」，這還是要看學校的具體制度，但是如果說學校指派的話，也不應該是空白授權。我們的意思是說，如果……"],["范委員雲：學校指派不應該空白授權？"],["劉次長孟奇：對。譬如說它可能有一些中間制度是限制，即使是由學校來就某幾位當中產生一人，因為最後要產生一人嘛！產生的這一人不見得一定是來自普選制度，但是它一定還是受某種約束。"],["范委員雲：當然可以不用是普選，可是一定是學生由下而上推選的嘛！學生推不出來的時候，你要再另外想辦法，那是另外一個狀況嘛！你同意嗎？原則是如此吧！"],["劉次長孟奇：對，所以基本上還是要看它那個制度上怎麼設計……"],["范委員雲：是由下而上的嘛！不應該在學生已經在推選的時候，你還想要指派嘛！"],["劉次長孟奇：應該是。如果它有一個制度明定，就應該按制度來走。"],["范委員雲：好。那就是說，應該在原則上是學生由下而上推選。我們看到宜蘭大學發生什麼事？學生會推薦名單之後，你看這邊都是他們原始的同學，我們這邊拿到的，學生已經推選出名單了，你看下面學生都有推選，上面居然還出現「學務處推薦」，學務處推薦不就是校方嗎？因為學務處、學務長是校長指派的，結果學生推選的一、二、三、四、五名之外，學務處再推薦四名。你看最後，校長就勾選了學務處推薦的，這不就是在踐踏學生自治、踐踏學生的參與權嗎？這是宜蘭大學的。請問次長，這樣有符合大學法跟你們的相關規定嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，我們再來檢視一下宜蘭大學的相關規定……"],["范委員雲：檢視一下吧！"],["劉次長孟奇：不過目前來講，它的單位還是有學生會，所以我們還是必須檢視一下……"],["范委員雲：不是，但是問題是人家學生自己已經推選出了議長、副議長、仲裁主委，這些都是本來就有民意基礎，然後學生團體推薦的，那校方，學務處是校方，又去推薦4個跟人家不一樣的。最後更有趣的是，校長就偏偏遴選不是學生團體推薦的，那不就是在製造學生的矛盾？而且這完全違反了我們剛剛講的，原則上由學生推選，你推選不出來的時候，再另外想辦法嘛！人家已經有推選這麼多名了。","我要告訴你的是，宜蘭大學這個不是一個特例，還有別的例子。我這邊還有聯合大學的學生會也反映，他們有實質推薦，結果學校又跳出來自行去指派推選，這不就是在傷害相關的規定嗎？這部分我想這是其中之一，另外一個部分我們也發現，因為我們現在講的都是校務基金會的運作。校務基金會你剛剛有看到，就是校長提的人必須「經校務會議同意權」。以我們立法院來講，同意權很清楚嘛！就是我們要同意，不管你的規定是過半，還是相對多數，還是三分之二，就是有一個同意權。某大學就在這個同意權行使的過程中，有校務會議的代表希望表決，結果副校長，這些都有上新聞，還表達說表決是不尊重，表決是在鞭屍，投票表決這些就是不行，最後依照慣例就沒有表決。請問那個同意權出現爭議的時候，不讓大家表決，這樣有符合你們相關的、你們剛剛講的，這個基金會的，就是我們立法院通過的那個同意權的精神嗎？請問次長。"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，因為看起來這個新聞應該是幾年前的，實際的情況……"],["范委員雲：你們有解決嗎？你們後來有就操作型定義解決過嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：報告委員，我們再去檢視一下。"],["范委員雲：好，你們再檢視一下。我想剛剛那幾個例子已經看出很多問題了，第一個，學生參與沒有保障，學生代表已經推選了，結果學校還來指派；第二個，校務會議的同意權已經淪為校長、副校長的橡皮圖章，是不是教育部應該考慮修改校務基金管理及監督辦法，讓同意權的行使，不管你是用行政命令，或是要直接修法，還有學生代表的產生方式更明確，不要讓這些當權派，還有這種操弄文字的機會好嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，我們再看看，因為也許是在子法或者是在行政指導的層次來處理，我們再來檢視一下。"],["范委員雲：好，不管怎麼樣，多久內可以給本委員會，就是本席跟我們委員會一個報告？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們是不是一個月給委員一個報告？"],["范委員雲：最後，因為召委已經站起來了，我想這些都反映了大學治理的兩大現況問題，學生參與沒有保障及校長的權力在大學自主下真的缺乏監督。","上一屆我們柯召委來不及參與的大學法修正案在我們委員會中跨黨派支持出委員會，包括學代五分之一條款，後來就沒有下文了。請問教育部，大學法到底修不修？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，這還是持續的，因為我們現在是分階段……"],["范委員雲：持續在努力中，對不對？"],["劉次長孟奇：對，我們現在把公聽會走完了，後續會繼續依照進度來提出這個修法的建議。"],["范委員雲：好，因為我不確定，當然如果次長有續任，我很歡迎，但是如果沒有的話，這個可不可以進入交接清單？我昨天也跟部長談高教治理的部分，我們明確讓這個進入交接清單，好不好？"],["劉次長孟奇：是，這一定會。"],["范委員雲：好，我們會繼續追，謝謝次長，高教亂象，我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員。","接下來請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.941593750000001,"end":7.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.87346875,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.193468750000001,"end":13.868468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.969718750000002,"end":49.187843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.424093750000004,"end":58.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.907843750000005,"end":58.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.52784375,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.77659375,"end":62.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.72971875,"end":65.89409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.97846875,"end":77.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.77409375,"end":106.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.20409375000001,"end":122.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.08409375000001,"end":119.42159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.73346875000001,"end":137.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.85346875000002,"end":142.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.02596875,"end":142.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.69221875,"end":189.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.16409375,"end":147.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.28409375,"end":208.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.15846875000003,"end":219.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.17409375000003,"end":219.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.54096875000002,"end":219.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.59159375000002,"end":241.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.44096875000002,"end":238.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.41096875000002,"end":247.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.59971875000002,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.18159375000002,"end":253.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.31596875000002,"end":255.65346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.08784375,"end":263.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.04034375000003,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.91346875,"end":266.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.16971875,"end":274.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.32159375000003,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.97096875,"end":293.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.04034375000003,"end":300.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.65909375,"end":305.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.91221875,"end":302.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.01721875000004,"end":309.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.75034375,"end":314.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.16784375000003,"end":312.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.63596875,"end":335.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.07971875000004,"end":366.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.97784375000003,"end":378.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.09971875,"end":371.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.08596875,"end":481.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.16659375,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.78846875000005,"end":499.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.50971875000005,"end":506.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.62346875000003,"end":501.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.71534375000005,"end":512.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.18784375,"end":508.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.4697187500001,"end":518.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.81096875,"end":556.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.0747187500001,"end":565.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.4197187500001,"end":595.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.9253437500001,"end":571.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.12346875,"end":609.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.8615937500001,"end":598.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.3928437500001,"end":602.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.6540937500001,"end":602.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.29096875,"end":604.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.21034375,"end":623.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.5790937500001,"end":624.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.8997187500001,"end":629.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.81846875,"end":631.1897187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.946,"end":33.035,"text":"好,感謝朝委喔。有請次長。我們請次長。謝謝。委員早。好,次長早喔。我今天也是要跟你談就是大學法的相關問題啦。次長應該非常知道北大生、北大學生會出來抗議的事情。那出現就是我們的學生代表依照大學法保障的學生自治學生會代表居然在"},{"start":33.915,"end":56.597,"text":"校務基金會的管理委員會當中被校友會長反映關麥克風校長還冷回說這不是你的麥克風是學校的麥克風居然他是校務基金管理委員會的委員委員會居然可以不聽學生的聲音請問次長這要怎麼辦"},{"start":60.781,"end":65.472,"text":"跟委員報告齁 這個事情我們也在...也在瞭解中嗎?"},{"start":66.018,"end":93.595,"text":"沒有沒有 這個我們大概是我們也有跟校長溝通啦 這的確不好那個在這種過程當中當然還是應該要來跟學生充分溝通是 那再請問次長喔你知不知道這個同一所大學喔最近又傳出都上新聞了齁那副校長跟系學會應該是講系主任啦 這邊寫錯齁系主任介入了學生會的選舉喔"},{"start":94.736,"end":121.409,"text":"那幫學生繳會費,請學生吃飯,要學生為了系上的利益參選。那請問一下次長,這個是不是已經踐踏了學生自治啊?跟委員報告,這件事情因為我們也是這兩天知道這件事情,我們還在瞭解真實的情況。當然如果真的是這樣的話,的確是非常的不宜,因為是破壞整個跟學生之間的信任關係。"},{"start":122.529,"end":137.073,"text":"這不只是不宜喔 這應該就是已經違反了大學法的行為那當然就是說因為次長還在調查中嘛 那什麼時候可以給本委員 本委員會一個報告好嗎我跟關心的委員我們剛剛說兩天 一個禮拜內"},{"start":142.774,"end":144.615,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":163.044,"end":189.526,"text":"被就是我認為是被操弄了我想次長非常了解我們校務基金會設置條例有規定委員其余由校長領選提經校務會議同意後聘任之這個沒有異議嘛那教育部訂的行政命令第五條有就是這個校務基金管理委員會委員應有學生代表至少一人這沒錯嘛"},{"start":190.447,"end":207.919,"text":"那剛剛那個國立台北大學的場景就是在這個校務基金管理委員會涉及到錢的事情特別敏感 對不對所以我們要有清楚的規範那我想請問次長學生代表的意思是不是就是由學生推選的才叫學生代表"},{"start":210.199,"end":233.129,"text":"目前這個如果按照現在的條文的話它基本上還是看學校自己的訂定的方式了。市長這是學生代表如果是校方指派的、校方推選的就不叫學生代表吧。那我們是說學生會長都有校長推選好啦。學生代表、民意代表什麼叫做代表?"},{"start":233.649,"end":246.215,"text":"民意代表就是由人民選舉出來的嗎?要不然我們過去那個老國大為什麼被認為不是代表?跟委員報告就是說他的學生代表的確應該要有學生的一個"},{"start":248.735,"end":271.735,"text":"就是他應該有學生一個基礎啦,一個意見基礎。應該是學生推選出來的嗎?那只是說他意見基礎怎麼產生出來,他可能看是走院、看是怎樣。那不會是由校方領選推派、推舉的學校指派的吧?應該說所謂的指派,因為這還是要看學校的具體制度。但是如果說學校指派的話,他也不應該是空白授權。"},{"start":273.337,"end":295.494,"text":"學校指派不應該痛白授權?對,那因為你還是有可能,譬如說他可能有一些中間制度是限制即使是由學校來就某幾位當中產生一人,因為最好產生一人嘛,產生一人不見得一定是一個普選制度,但是他一定還是要受某種的約束。當然可以不用是普選,可是一定是要學生由下而上推選嘛。"},{"start":296.215,"end":309.36,"text":"學生推不出來的時候你要再另外想辦法那個是另外一個狀況嗎?這樣同意吧?原則是如此吧?由下而上嗎?不應該在學生已經推選的時候你還想要指派嗎?"},{"start":311.219,"end":333.137,"text":"應該是,如果他有一個制度明定,就應該按制度來走。應該就是原則上由學生由下上推選。那我們看到宜蘭大學發生什麼事?學生會推薦名單之後,你看這邊都是他們的原始的同學,我們這邊拿到的。學生已經推選了名單了,你看下面學生還推選,上面居然還出現學務處推薦。"},{"start":336.141,"end":338.823,"text":"學務處推薦不就是校方嗎?因為學務處學務長是校長指派的結果呢就是學生推選的123456、123455名之外學務處再推薦4名你看最後校長就勾選了學務處推薦的"},{"start":354.713,"end":359.577,"text":"議長,這樣有符合我們大學法跟你們的相關規定嗎?跟委員報告,我們再來檢視一下宜蘭大學它的相關的規定,不過"},{"start":374.39,"end":400.962,"text":"目前來講他的單位還是有學生會所以我們還是必須檢視一下但是問題是說人家學生自己已經推選出的是議長、副議長、仲裁主委這都是本來就有民意基礎然後學生團體推薦了那就是那校方學務處是校方嘛又去推薦四個跟人家不一樣的最後更有趣的是校長就偏偏領選不是學生團體推薦的那不就是在製造學生的矛盾"},{"start":401.542,"end":409.969,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國"},{"start":419.918,"end":430.927,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人"},{"start":450.281,"end":475.527,"text":"校會同意權以我們立法院同意權很清楚嘛就是我們要同意那我們要同意的話不管你的規定是過半還是相對多數還是三分之二就是有一個同意權那某大學就在這個同意權行使的過程中有校會的代表希望表決結果副校長這都有上新聞還表達說表決是不尊重"},{"start":476.127,"end":476.147,"text":"請問次長﹗"},{"start":500.874,"end":511.282,"text":"委員報告,因為看起來這個新聞應該是幾年前,那實際的情況?你們有解決嗎?你們後來有做操作型定義有解決過嗎?"},{"start":514.53,"end":540.915,"text":"報告委員我們再去檢視一下你們再檢視一下那我想剛剛那幾個例子已經看出很多的問題了第一個學生參與沒有保障學生代表已經推選了結果學校還來指派第二個校務會議的同意權已經淪為校長副校長的橡皮圖章那是不是教育部應該考慮修改校務基金管理及監督辦法"},{"start":541.615,"end":551.665,"text":"讓那個就是同意權的行使不管你是用行政命令或是你要直接修法還有學生代表的產生方式更明確不要讓這些當權派還有這種操弄文字的機會好嗎"},{"start":557.093,"end":557.273,"text":"委員莊瑞"},{"start":572.093,"end":573.094,"text":"請問教育部大學法到底修不修?"},{"start":596.489,"end":623.218,"text":"跟委員報告,這還是持續的。持續在努力中,對不對?那我們現在把公聽會走完了,那後續還會繼續依照進度來提出這個修法的一個建立。那因為就是我不確定,當然就是說如果次長有續任我很歡迎喔,但是如果沒有的話,就是這個可不可以進入交接清單。我昨天也跟部長去說談高教治理論,我們明確這個進入交接清單好不好?"},{"start":624.258,"end":624.379,"text":"對,這一定會。"}]}},{"id":"151416","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151416","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4456fceade2b0baef74f81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c944d80454cee631a6f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"11:02:05 - 11:11:04","影片長度":"00:08:59","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":539,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:11:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T11:02:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":297,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（11時2分）有請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：秘書長好。同樣，跟黃國昌委員一樣，有些在你能回答的範圍之內，我來就教一下，民進黨2024年的國會閹割法案，當然他們認為是國會改革。我在這邊也跟秘書長報告一下，事實上，今天看到2024年民進黨的國會改革法案，我想到八個字──「欲練神功，必先自宮」，就是典型的葵花寶典，不過神功蓋世的是行政院，然後立法院就要在民進黨所謂的葵花自宮寶典當中自我閹割。自我閹割不是個評價而已，我一一來就教民進黨令人嘆為觀止的自我閹割版本。民進黨2016年的國會改革版本跟2024年的國會改革版到底差別在哪裡？也就教一下秘書長，到底為什麼會有這樣的差別。","我們先來看第二十九條，第二十九條2016年的民進黨版本跟2024年的差別在哪裡？第一個、民進黨在新的版本、這個閹割版當中，把檢察總長、中選會主委、公平會主委及NCC主委的同意權從院會移到委員會審查，而且刪掉了2016年的審查意見擬具報告提送院會，刪除審查期不得少於一個月的規定，也就是把我們的審查密度跟期程縮短。更重要的是把表決從記名改成無記名，表決門檻也閹割，本來在民進黨2016年的版本是全體一半，現在也是全體一半，他自己閹割掉變成出席委員一半，變比較少、門檻比較低。我想要請教一下秘書長，現在大家已經都往立法院正、副院長改採記名表決的方向討論，民進黨也認同，所以民進黨都已經在做技術性亮票，結果民進黨的自我閹割版本把人事同意權改成所謂的無記名。你認同人事審查權還是要無記名嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：我想大概由委員來決定到底要不要記名或不記名，從禮拜一的版本裡面來看，大部分都是用記名表決的方式來處理，而民進黨今天的提案版本是寫「無記名」。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！"],["周秘書長萬來：至於剛才有提到現行法的處理，不是憲政的部分，是用慣例交相關委員會，然後是用出席委員……"],["羅委員智強：我跟秘書長補充一下，我講的不是現行，我講的是2016跟2024版本的比較。當然秘書長很客氣，你把現行的規定拿出來，剛剛柯總召一直跟我們說東施效顰，今天不是用東施效顰來看，你的眼睛是放在2016年版本，叫西施捧心，為什麼？用2016年的版本，民進黨會痛心，對不對？這是第一個，所以第一個閹割掉的是什麼？記名變無記名、全體一半變出席一半，這不是閹割，什麼是閹割？","我再問下一個，第三十條也是非常經典，民進黨的第三十條在2016版本是要求被提名人的學歷、經歷、財產、稅務、刑案紀錄，這些「哩哩叩叩」所有的相關資料都要拿出來，但2024年的版本全部刪掉了，所以被提名人的學歷、經歷、財產、稅務、刑案紀錄都不重要嗎？還是今天被提名人愛丟什麼資料就丟什麼資料？我想要問一下秘書長，基本上，我們是不是應該對被提名人的審查更慎重、資料更周全比較好呢？"],["周秘書長萬來：審查密度能夠更高，當然會更周延，對被提名人會更瞭解。"],["羅委員智強：接下來我們再看第四十五條。第四十五條在2016年版本跟2024年版本最大的差別在於，採取所謂的僅限於什麼樣情況之下。我要跟各位講，立法的文字應該正面表列，連監察法都正面表列，你還自己先告訴大家，什麼情況之下不能行使，不能行使自然有相關法律跟憲法規定，但是不用卑躬屈膝到還要特別強調，我們只能如何、如何才能開始進行調查權。","再來，所謂調閱的調查委員會跟專案小組，第四十六條民進黨2016跟2024的版本差別在於，新的版本刪除了文件可在會期外調閱的規定，還將調查專案小組改為調閱專案小組，權限限縮，只能要求機關就特定議案提供參考文件，必要時，才能夠要求文件原本，但2016年民進黨的版本不是這個樣子。我想請教秘書長，會期並不限制立法權吧？我們在國會的調查權是屬於立法權的輔助性權力，為什麼要用會期來限制調查權呢？"],["周秘書長萬來：當時我們在擬的是，這個委員會或是小組成立一定在會期中，至於調閱在時間上是不受……"],["羅委員智強：對啊！"],["周秘書長萬來：在休會期間可以行使。"],["羅委員智強：另外，竟然只要求參考文件。我覺得民進黨真的不要把立法院搞成行政機關的小媳婦。各位，很抱歉！另外，我再講一些比較嚴重一點的，還有一點是什麼呢？還有一點就是民進黨的第四十八條也很厲害，第四十八條本來是說虛偽陳述要處罰，特別強調說謊官員要罰，這是2016年民進黨版本裡面的。可是我不懂為什麼2024年版本特別把虛偽陳述拿掉，特別跟大家說抱歉，新的版本沒有要處理說謊官員。我現在請問秘書長，官員可以在立法院說謊嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：我上次已經報告過了，現行並沒有對這方面做規範。我在上一次已經有報告過。"],["羅委員智強：我要跟秘書長說的，也跟所有民眾說的，就是這一段時間你會發現我們在談國會聽證調查，尤其官員處罰的這個部分，我發現民進黨有一個新的辯護方式，民進黨的朋友啦，不敢說全部的民進黨，有一個新的辯護方式就是說：官員在聽證調查竟然沒有說謊的權利啦！我發現會有這樣的一個印象就是2024年民進黨的版本當中，竟然把虛偽不實陳述拿掉，這個版本能看嗎？我真的覺得民進黨你對不起2016年的民進黨啦！以上。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員的發言。先做預告，稍後在沈委員發惠詢答完畢後，我們休息5分鐘。","繼續請沈委員發惠進行詢答。喔！換過了嗎？對不起，這邊是吳思瑤委員，抱歉。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.814718750000001,"end":8.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.594093750000003,"end":14.610968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.610968750000001,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.302843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.302843750000001,"end":15.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.31971875,"end":15.387218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.387218750000002,"end":15.437843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.437843750000003,"end":15.809093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.011593750000003,"end":33.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.17596875,"end":17.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.84846875,"end":51.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.61346875,"end":53.001593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.27159375,"end":66.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.10909375,"end":75.15846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.52971875,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.97221875000001,"end":93.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.97409375000001,"end":141.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.23659375,"end":146.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.40034375000002,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.25471875000002,"end":166.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.57034375,"end":168.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.67534375000002,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.29909375,"end":194.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.92034375,"end":202.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.05534375000002,"end":195.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.27471875,"end":195.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.96971875000003,"end":209.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.28096875,"end":223.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.70284375,"end":210.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.77659375000002,"end":227.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.04596875000001,"end":234.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.88034375,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.90909375,"end":266.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.70221875000004,"end":279.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.47659375,"end":289.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.65221875000003,"end":298.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.19096875,"end":303.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.37159375000005,"end":311.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.62784375,"end":325.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.97159375,"end":366.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.30284375,"end":369.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.16721875,"end":375.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.48284375000003,"end":378.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.09409375,"end":387.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.20659375,"end":389.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.38784375,"end":394.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.92284375,"end":404.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.11159375000005,"end":402.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.62596875,"end":405.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.16159375,"end":426.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.42846875000004,"end":432.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.68909375000004,"end":447.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.34909375,"end":453.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.25534375,"end":458.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.11534375,"end":470.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.75909375000003,"end":474.94409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.85534375000003,"end":482.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.06096875000003,"end":489.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.08096875,"end":493.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.31659375000004,"end":502.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.20971875000004,"end":509.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.05659375000005,"end":520.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.3840937500001,"end":525.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.6997187500001,"end":526.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.3772187500001,"end":539.13659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.858,"end":7.599,"text":"有請周秘書長"},{"start":16.189,"end":28.694,"text":"民主黨好,其實同樣跟黃國昌委員一樣有些在你能回答的範圍之內,我們就來就教一下今天民進黨2024年的國會閹割法案當然他們認為是國會改革"},{"start":34.284,"end":51.47,"text":"我這邊也跟秘書長報告一下實際上我覺得今天我看到2024年民進黨的國會改革法案我想到八個字就是欲練神功必先至功"},{"start":53.398,"end":73.418,"text":"就是典型的葵花寶典不過神功蓋世是行政院然後我們立法院就要在民進黨的所謂的葵花至公寶典當中就自我閹割這自我閹割不是個評價而已我們就一一來就教一下我們民進黨真的是令人嘆為觀止的"},{"start":75.68,"end":92.081,"text":"自我閹割版本。我先來講民進黨的這個2016年的國會改革版本跟2024年的國會改革版本到底差別在哪裡也就教一下我們的秘書長到底為什麼會有這樣的差別我們先來看第29條"},{"start":94.022,"end":110.693,"text":"第二十九條2016年的民進黨版本跟2020年差別在哪裏?第一個民進黨在新的版本這個閹割版當中把檢察總長、中選會主委、公平會主委、NCC主委的同意權從院會移到委員會審查"},{"start":111.954,"end":135.801,"text":"然後而且刪掉了2016年審查意見擬具報告提送院會他刪除審查期不得少於一個月的規定也就把我們的審查的密度跟期程縮短那更重要的是他把表決從記名改成無記名表決門檻也閹割本來在民進黨2016年版本是全體一半現在也是全體一半"},{"start":136.801,"end":145.873,"text":"他自己閹割掉啊,變成出席委員一半,變比較少啊,門檻比較低啊。所以我要跟各位講啊,我要想要請教一下我們的秘書長。"},{"start":147.435,"end":172.361,"text":"到底我們今天的表決以現在我們的立法院正副院長我們現在都改採記名表決嘛已經大家都往這討論嘛民進黨也認同啊所以民進黨的技術性的記名亮票都已經在做啦那為什麼人事同意權今天結果我們民進黨的自我閹割版本的把它改成所謂的無記名呢你認同覺得現在還是人事審查權要無記名嗎"},{"start":174.346,"end":202.258,"text":"我想大概由委員來決定這一個到底要不要記名不記名啦那版本裡面來看是因為在禮拜一裡面大部分都是用記名表決啦來 方式來處理那現在的民進黨今天的提案版本是寫無記名啦那自己剛才有提到是一個現行法裡面的處理是不是憲政的"},{"start":203.078,"end":207.181,"text":"一、民進黨黨團擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文擬具:「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文"},{"start":223.931,"end":234.049,"text":"我才為什麼一直剛剛跟我們柯總要講說什麼東施、孝平齁我說這今天不是用東施、孝平來看啊但你眼睛是放在2016年版本你知道稀釋捧心啊"},{"start":234.972,"end":236.313,"text":"二、委員呂玲等16人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":255.02,"end":278.681,"text":"民進黨的第30條在2016版本他是要求被提名人學歷、經歷、財產、稅務、刑案記錄所有這些離離口口的相關資料都要拿出來喔欸今天2024年全部刪掉了所以被提名人的學歷、經歷、財產、稅務、刑案記錄都不重要嗎還是今天被提名人愛丟什麼資料就丟什麼資料"},{"start":281.084,"end":301.181,"text":"我想要問一下秘書長就是說基本上到底我們是不是應該對被提名人在審查更慎重資料更周全比較好呢審查密度能夠更高當然是比較會更卓越對被提名人會比較更了解接下來我們再看這個第45條"},{"start":304.434,"end":310.584,"text":"第四十五條在2016年的版本跟2024年版本最大的差別在於說"},{"start":311.667,"end":336.441,"text":"他就採取所謂的僅限於什麼樣情況之下我要跟各位講這立法的文字你應該正面表列先查法都正面表列那你還先自我告訴大家說什麼情況之下不能行使不能行使自然有相關法律跟憲法的規定但是不用這個卑躬屈膝道還要特別強調說我們只能如何如何才能開始進行所謂調查權"},{"start":337.381,"end":365.62,"text":"那再來就講所謂的調閱我們講調查委員會跟專案小組的部分第46條民進黨的2016跟2024版本就是刪除了新的版本刪除了文件可在會期外調閱的規定那將調查專案小組改為調閱專案小組全線限縮只能要求機關就特定案提供參考文件"},{"start":366.44,"end":387.265,"text":"必要時才能夠要求文件原本。」2016年的民進黨不是這個樣子。我想請教我們的秘書長,會期並不限制立法權吧?我們在國會的調查權是屬於立法權輔助性權利,為什麼要用會期來限制我們今天的調查權呢?"},{"start":389.537,"end":415.006,"text":"以現行法來當時我們在理的說是這一個委員會或是小組成立一定在會期中啦至於在調閱的這個時間上是不受這一個在修會前是可以行使的然後另外吼要求竟然是只要求參考文件我真的是覺得說民進黨真的不要把立法院搞成行政機關的小媳婦啦小媳婦啦"},{"start":415.726,"end":430.313,"text":"那各位抱歉另外我再講一次比較嚴重一點的還有一點就是什麼呢還有一點就是民進黨這48條的部分那也很厲害他48條裡面呢他本來是說這個虛偽陳述的"},{"start":432.754,"end":452.96,"text":"要處罰要罰虛偽陳述特別強調說謊官員要罰這是2016年民進黨版本裡面的可是我不懂為什麼2024年版本特別別把虛偽陳述拿掉特別跟大家講說抱歉我新的版本我沒有要處理說謊官員啦我現在請問秘書長說謊官員官員可以在立法院說謊嗎"},{"start":459.104,"end":473.49,"text":"我上次已經報告過了就是因為這個裡面我們現行上並沒有對這方面有做規範我上次在上一次我已經有說我要跟秘書長說的也跟我們所有的民眾說的"},{"start":475.916,"end":501.947,"text":"就是說這一段時間你會發現我們在談國會聽證調查以及尤其官員處罰的這個部分我發現民進黨有一個新的民進黨的朋友不敢說全部的民進黨有一個新的辯護的方式就是說官員在這個聽證調查竟然沒有說謊的權利啦我又發現會有這樣的一個印象就是2024年民進黨的版本當中竟然把虛偽不實陳述拿掉"},{"start":503.574,"end":507.656,"text":"這個版本能看嗎?我真是覺得民進黨你對不起我們2016年的民進黨啦以上"},{"start":538.445,"end":538.466,"text":"條文。"}]}},{"id":"151415","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151415","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4450bc77fe72f062cb40525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c94a1161ff5f2c303155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"10:59:03 - 11:10:19","影片長度":"00:11:16","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":676,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:10:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:59:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":659,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（10時59分）主席好，有請金管會主委。"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委好，您辛苦了。主委，我們看到目前行政院版投顧法草案第四十九條之三第一項，它是不是有說到不動產投資信託基金不得投資於住宅？請問一下主委，為何限制不動產投資信託基金來投資住宅？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為過去這段時間，尤其我們在2020年開始有房價穩定的相關機制措施，社會對高房價其實都有一些物議，我們是有一點顧慮，如果這個新的資金來源也投資到住宅的話，會不會讓一些民眾誤認為這個基金也是在炒房，有這個顧慮。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝主委，我們也是這麼想。投顧法草案第五條有定義不動產是指土地，還有其他建物等等。都計法規定得劃定住宅、商業、工業等使用區；另外第三十四條也規定，住宅區為保護居住環境而劃定等等。請教主委，不動產投資信託基金投資土地時有沒有給予任何的限制？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我的瞭解應該就是，所謂不動產跟附帶的相關權利必須要產生穩定的現金收入。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：為什麼這麼問、這麼關心？因為依投顧法草案第四十九條之三，它可以投資開發型之不動產。問題就是想要請教，它必須要去買地嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那它買地，到底是要購買商業用地還是住宅用地，或者它都可以買？"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該都有一些額度的限制，如果是開發性，我記得有一個比例是15跟40，如果公募的話是15，私募的話可以到40。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那都可以喔？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，目前是可以，但是有一個額度的限制、比例的限制。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：以臺北市為例來看，第三類住宅區可以蓋旅館，所以再請教，不動產投資信託基金可以購買住宅用地興建旅館嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我不是地政專家，住宅用地興建旅館我不曉得可不可以，但旅館是可以的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我為什麼要這樣問？其實是關心，當不動產投資信託基金購買住宅用地的時候，您剛剛一開始就講，有可能會推升附近住宅的房價、用地價格，那我就想請教，主委認為需不需要限制？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個部分我覺得您的顧慮是存在的，我不曉得局長有沒有意見，因為我怕答得不太清楚。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那就請局長回答。"],["張局長振山：基本上這個是在合法的範圍內，但是我們有比例的限制，是可以的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：可以，那我會提一個修正動議：不動產投資信託基金，以投資或運用於下列標的為限，且不得投資於住宅法第三條第一款所定住宅或都市計畫法第三十四條所定住宅區土地。主委，你怎麼看？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們尊重委員的提案，到時候逐條討論的時候再……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：您當然一定是必須尊重，我只是問您的看法。"],["黃主任委員天牧：當然限制越多，可能產生受益的標的之來源就會少一點，但您當然是顧慮到任何有可能推升房價的這種投資，您都非常審慎，我想也有您的道理。當初可能只考量住宅，沒有想到土地部分去蓋旅館也可能有這種問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我希望至少這個到時候要充分討論，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解，是，謝謝委員提醒我們。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主委。另外一個問題，我們從新聞看到，歐美商辦有爆雷案，事實上這個應該是可以掌握的，因為警鐘早已響起。2020年全球爆發疫情，大家開始遠距辦公，這已經漸漸變成常態化，可以預期商辦的需求會弱化。加上前年3月美國暴力升息，這些歐美商辦業者的債務成本大幅躍升，所以沒有人想租。因此這個是可預期的，需求下降、成本上升、業者倒閉。為什麼關心這個問題？因為新聞上有看到「金管會證實：六家銀行中箭」，什麼意思？我們看到他們是聯合借錢給這些歐美的商辦業者。目前我這邊得知的案件數是10件美國聯貸案跟1件歐洲聯貸案，參貸餘額大概是一百零四億多新臺幣，預估呆帳損失約三十億新臺幣。可是金管會2023年歲入預算是八億多，呆帳損失變成是金管會4年歲收總和。所以我想要請教主委，你們掌握到的是哪6家銀行？"],["黃主任委員天牧：美國的情況您分析得非常好，可是我跟您報告，其實我們兩年前就開始要求我們的銀行去注意它的……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：有、有……"],["黃主任委員天牧：金檢也有做，而且裡面發現遇到雷的這些銀行，其實真的金檢也都去查過，不是沒有查。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：結果呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這6家當然有1家，您已經公布了1家，應該就這5家，另外一家民營的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：臺銀？"],["黃主任委員天牧：還有一家民營的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：兆豐、一銀、彰銀、合庫。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那請教一下民營是誰？"],["黃主任委員天牧：王道銀行。其中有一些因為歐洲、法國的養老院的案子是一個聯貸案，那個案子其實檢察局去歐洲查的時候也有查到。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：其實我們都是從新聞看到，它說共有10件商辦授信損失，6家銀行踩雷，其中有兩件已全數轉銷呆帳。再請教主委，轉銷呆帳的那一家是哪一家？"],["黃主任委員天牧：華銀有轉銷，還有彰銀也轉銷了。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：去年12月金管會將歐美商辦授信案列入海外金檢重點，您剛剛提到了，金檢的時候到底查出哪些缺失？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟您報告，您一開始點出來，一個是需求面，因為疫情；第二就是美國暴力升息，這兩點當初在做貸款的時候，其實都不見得是銀行能夠預料得到，但並不表示……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：銀行預料不到？"],["黃主任委員天牧：暴力升息大家都不太能夠預測，而疫情也不是它能預測，但是並不表示它在授信、徵信上沒有什麼……應該還可以再改，但是沒有重大的缺失。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們只是提醒，希望金管會還是要更精進，很多的狀況能夠及早掌握、預警，避免再度踩雷影響我們的金融市場。","最後一個問題也是從新聞看到的，有一個東西叫入金機，請問主委聽過這個東西嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我最近看到網路上有這個。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我是從來不知道有這個東西，後來我才知道原來有一個東西叫入金機，客戶可以租用，存現金進去，遠端連線可以存到他銀行的帳戶，然後定時定期會有保全公司去提領現金到銀行，竟然有這種東西！入金機已經變成詐騙工具了，犯罪集團把贓款存到入金機有什麼好處？不用跑銀行、不用被盤問，竟然有這種東西！請教一下主委，就您目前的掌握，入金機到底是保險公司借出去的，還是銀行出借的？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我的瞭解是，目前中部有一個入金機這樣的地方被檢調移送，但目前沒有資訊得知這個入金機的所有者或聯繫的機制跟金融機構有沒有關係，還不確定。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以現在我們其實無法確知這個東西……"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為我們沒有辦法從檢調得到資訊，不過一般銀行的ATM本來就有存款功能。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：這個已經算是警鐘了，變成一個犯罪工具。依照洗防法所定的「金融機構對達一定金額以上通貨交易及疑似洗錢交易申報辦法」第二條，一定金額是指新臺幣五十萬元，而且應在交易完成後五個營業日內以媒體申報方式，向法務部調查局申報。入金機就像你們剛剛講的，還沒有辦法掌握是保險公司還是銀行。我想要請教主委，匯入超過五十萬，有沒有受到這個法的約束？有沒有要申報？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為入金機不能判斷是不是銀行的，我想應該是銀行的機會也不見得那麼大，所以這勢必是一個破口，如果有很多這種入金機的話就要防範。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，它就是一個破口，所以我們現在就是要查它匯入哪些銀行？是境內還是境外？希望金管會要掌握，而且我們比較擔心的是，因為你們一直強調KYC（Know Your Customer，知道你的客戶是誰、認識你的客戶是誰），這是金管會再三要求銀行要落實的洗防準則，所以這個部分我們是希望魔高一尺，道要高一丈，提早掌握，避免風險，希望金管會就這個部分還是要再去精進、掌握、瞭解，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，謝謝委員提醒，我們會注意入金機的問題。謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，主委辛苦了，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員的質詢。我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。","休息（11時10分）","繼續開會（11時21分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接著請黃珊珊委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.549093750000001,"end":6.156593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.59534375,"end":7.995968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.164718750000002,"end":8.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.83034375,"end":15.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.589718750000003,"end":15.606593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.640343750000003,"end":22.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.250968750000002,"end":24.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.07346875,"end":41.391593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.813468750000006,"end":47.196593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.48346875,"end":65.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.93221875,"end":73.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.62284375,"end":98.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.44596875,"end":100.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.56784375000001,"end":111.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.62534375000001,"end":117.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.32471875,"end":128.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.70284375,"end":135.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.98971875,"end":129.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.82409375,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.19096875,"end":142.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.77659375000002,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.10034375,"end":150.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.13409375,"end":150.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.15096875,"end":150.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.50534375,"end":152.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.24346875,"end":155.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.88846875000002,"end":156.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.41159375,"end":156.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.42846875,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.44534375,"end":157.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.12034375000002,"end":157.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.57596875000002,"end":164.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.66034375,"end":157.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.59596875,"end":166.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.84034375000002,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.59034375000002,"end":180.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.67784375000002,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.03096875,"end":192.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.99659375000002,"end":195.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.74721875,"end":196.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.33346875,"end":199.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.64534375000002,"end":202.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.22721875000002,"end":202.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.75034375,"end":202.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.78409375,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.96534375000002,"end":209.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.58471875,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.31409375,"end":216.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.53284375,"end":217.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.13596875000002,"end":219.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.76034375,"end":219.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.77721875,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.03034375000001,"end":220.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.18221875,"end":220.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.19909375,"end":220.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.70534375000003,"end":221.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.78534375,"end":222.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.56159375000001,"end":222.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.32096875000002,"end":226.20659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.49346875,"end":228.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.02471875,"end":243.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.60471875000002,"end":248.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.68034375000002,"end":245.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.13159375,"end":252.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.57409375,"end":251.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.05471875,"end":275.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.29596875000004,"end":278.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.99596875000003,"end":281.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.80596875000003,"end":279.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.57784375,"end":287.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.66534375000003,"end":295.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.44471875,"end":297.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.99284375,"end":300.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.84471875,"end":306.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.31221875,"end":307.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.38784375,"end":313.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.61909375000005,"end":324.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.33034375,"end":328.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.31284375,"end":331.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.11409375,"end":352.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.66784375000003,"end":357.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.01721875000004,"end":359.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.04221875,"end":364.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.49721875,"end":366.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.14659375,"end":369.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.92659375000005,"end":371.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.47471875,"end":374.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.50409375000004,"end":397.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.40596875,"end":383.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.10471875,"end":392.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.37034375,"end":394.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.38221875000005,"end":403.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.13721875000005,"end":400.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.04409375,"end":404.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.35596875000005,"end":404.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.65971875,"end":406.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.17409375000005,"end":407.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.24159375000005,"end":407.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.51159375000003,"end":407.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.27096875,"end":408.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.09784375000004,"end":409.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.85284375000003,"end":410.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.97096875000005,"end":423.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.14221875000004,"end":438.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.97909375,"end":442.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.10096875000005,"end":444.72096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.72096875000005,"end":444.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.83909375,"end":444.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.10909375000006,"end":445.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.75034375,"end":447.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.31971875000005,"end":447.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.12971875000005,"end":457.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.30971875,"end":458.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.45284375000006,"end":459.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.46971875,"end":472.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.65346875000006,"end":473.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.08346875,"end":486.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.07784375000006,"end":483.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.67659375000005,"end":491.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.95409375,"end":504.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.35284375000003,"end":507.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.68159375000005,"end":509.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.55471875,"end":516.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.18221875,"end":541.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.0359687499999,"end":535.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.74471875,"end":535.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.9209687499999,"end":542.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.20346875,"end":544.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.5872187500001,"end":554.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.20159375,"end":568.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.0434687500001,"end":570.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.65909375,"end":570.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.7434687500001,"end":570.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.77721875,"end":575.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.9409687500001,"end":594.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.53721875,"end":616.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.93034375,"end":619.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.32659375,"end":633.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.46034375,"end":627.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.5522187500001,"end":643.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.9809687500001,"end":670.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.4834687500002,"end":668.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.37346875,"end":675.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.8584687500002,"end":671.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.46159375,"end":675.84096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.578,"end":8.769,"text":"主席好有請金管會主委有請黃主委"},{"start":15.885,"end":41.121,"text":"主委好您辛苦了。主委我們看到目前的行政院版頭顧法草案第49條之三第一項他是不是有說到不動產投資信託基金不得投資於住宅那請問一下主委就是為何限制不動產投資信託基金來投資住宅"},{"start":41.877,"end":64.64,"text":"因為過去這段時間大家對,也許我們在2020開始有這個房價穩定的這相關的機制措施,大家對高房價其實都有一些社會的誤議。那我們是有一點顧慮,那如果這個新的資金來源也投資到這個住宅的話,會不會讓一些民眾誤認為說這個基金也是在炒房。"},{"start":65.06,"end":89.838,"text":"是是好謝謝主委我們也是這麼想那我們來看一下頭目法草案的第5條他有去定義不動產失職土地還有其他建物等等等那都計法呢他說劃定住宅商業工業等使用區另外第34條也說住宅區為保護"},{"start":90.578,"end":92.139,"text":" ：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2"},{"start":112.321,"end":135.059,"text":"為什麼這麼問這麼關心因為頭顧法草案第49條之3他是可以投資開發型的不動產那問題就是想要請教關於這種他必須要去買地那他買地他到底是要購買商業用地還是購買住宅用地還是說他都可以買"},{"start":138.008,"end":144.013,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。cellence"},{"start":152.821,"end":179.815,"text":"對目前是可以就是但是他有一個額度的限制都可以的限制對好那我們來看一下如果以臺北市為例來看他的第三類住宅區他是可以蓋旅館的所以再請教一下這個不動產投資信託基金可以購買住宅用地興建旅館嗎報告委員這個我不是地政專家那住宅用地興建旅館我不曉得可不可以但是旅館是可以的"},{"start":183.51,"end":202.004,"text":"關心當這個不動產投資信託基金購買住宅用地的時候您剛剛一開始就講嘛是有可能會推升附近住宅的一個房價用地價格那我就是想請教主委您認為需不需要做限制"},{"start":203.386,"end":203.626,"text":"請局長回答"},{"start":223.396,"end":242.873,"text":"那我會提一個修正動議就是不動產投資信託基金以投資或運用於下列標的為限且不得投資於住宅法第三條第一款所定住宅或都市計劃法第34條所定住宅區土地主委你怎麼看"},{"start":248.156,"end":259.705,"text":"您當然一定是必須尊重啦我只是說問您的看法啦當然限制越多他可能產生收益的標的來源就會少一點但是您當然是顧慮到"},{"start":260.726,"end":266.349,"text":"二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計二、處理中華民國113年度"},{"start":287.722,"end":307.747,"text":"那事實上這個應該是可以掌握的因為警鐘早已響起啊2020年全球爆發疫情大家開始做遠距辦公那這個已經是漸漸變成常態化可以預期商辦的需求會弱化加上呢前年的3月美國暴力升息"},{"start":308.487,"end":312.869,"text":"因此這是可預期的需求下降成本上升業者就倒閉那為什麼關心這個問題因為新聞有看到啦金管會證實六家銀行重建喔"},{"start":329.375,"end":351.81,"text":"那什麼意思就是我們看到他們是聯合借錢給這些歐美的商辦業者那目前我這邊得知的案件數是10件美國的連帶案跟一件歐洲連帶案他的參代餘額呢大概是104億多新台幣那預估的待帳損失呢是大約30億的新台幣"},{"start":352.771,"end":369.778,"text":"可是我們看到金管會2023年的稅入預算是8億多嘛所以這個災障的損失呢變成是你們金管會4年稅收的總和所以我想要請教一下主委你們掌握到的是哪六家銀行?委員會民報告"},{"start":374.628,"end":396.741,"text":"美國的情況您分析得非常好可是我跟您報告其實我們兩年前就開始要求我們的銀行去注意他的有而且精檢也有去做而且這裡面所發現遇到雷的這些銀行其實精檢有的增長已經也都去查過不是沒有查那這六家當然有一家是對您已經公佈了一家"},{"start":398.493,"end":399.894,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":411.742,"end":438.678,"text":"那其中有一些因為歐洲的那個法國的那個那個養老院的案子是一個連帶案那個案子其實檢察局去歐洲查的時候也有查到其實我們都是從新聞看他說共有10件商辦受信損失6家銀行踩雷那其中呢有兩件以全數轉銷呆帳再請教一下主委轉銷呆帳的那一家是哪一家"},{"start":439.974,"end":447.841,"text":"華銀轉銷張銀轉銷"},{"start":448.171,"end":471.361,"text":"那去年12月金管會將歐美商辦授信案列入了海外精檢重點您剛剛提到了那精檢的時候到底查出哪些缺失?報告員其實我跟您報告您剛一開始點出來一個是需求面因為疫情第二就是美國暴力升息這兩點其實在當初我在做貸款的時候其實都不見得是銀行它能夠預料的到銀行預料不到"},{"start":474.36,"end":475.08,"text":"希望金管會更精進"},{"start":492.051,"end":503.799,"text":"很多的狀況能夠及早的去掌握預警那避免再度採了影響我們的金融市場那最後一個問題也是從新聞看的有一個東西叫入金機"},{"start":506.05,"end":531.738,"text":"請問主委你聽過這個東西嗎我是從來不知道有這個東西後來我才知道說原來有一個東西叫入金機客戶可以租用存現金進去遠端連線可以存到他銀行的帳戶然後定時定期會有保全公司去提領那個現金到銀行竟然有這種東西那我們看到"},{"start":532.418,"end":554.62,"text":"入金機已經變成是詐騙工具囉犯罪集團呢他們把贓款存到這個入金機有什麼好處不用跑銀行不用被盤問欸竟然有這種東西那請教一下主委就您目前的掌握這個入金機他到底是保險公司借出去的還是銀行出借的"},{"start":555.236,"end":575.538,"text":"我的了解是目前中部有一家有一這樣一個入金機的地方被檢調移送但是目前沒有資訊得知這個入金機的所有者或是聯繫的機制是跟金融機構有沒有關係還不確定所以現在我們其實無法確知這個東西我們沒有辦法從檢調得到資訊不過一般銀行的ATM本來就有存款功能"},{"start":575.998,"end":602.59,"text":"好那這個已經算是警鐘了嘛變成一個犯罪工具那依照我們洗房法所定的這個金融機構對達一定金額以上通過交易及疑似洗錢交易的申辦報法第二條他指新台幣50萬元那交易完成後5個營業日內要以媒體申報的方式向法務部調查局申報所以這邊請教主委"},{"start":604.051,"end":632.859,"text":"就是入金機啊不論是就像你們剛剛講的還沒有辦法掌握是保險公司還是銀行就是想要請教匯入了這個超過50萬有沒有受到這個法的一個約束力有沒有要申報因為入金機不能判斷是不是銀行的我想應該是銀行的機會也不見得那麼大所以勢必這是一個破口如果是大家有很多這種入金機的話就要去做防範"},{"start":634.038,"end":661.554,"text":"對他就是一個破口啦所以我們現在就是說要去查嘛他會入哪一些銀行是境內還是境外齁這個希望金管會要去掌握而且我們比較擔心的是說因為你們一直強調KYC是這個Know Your Customer是你知道你的客戶是誰認識你的客戶是誰是金管會再三要求銀行要落實的洗房準則齁所以這個部分我們是希望說摸高一尺啊"},{"start":661.974,"end":662.955,"text":"主委謝謝主委謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"151414","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151414","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4451b2b71c1eafc531ccc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94739038d26760b9c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"10:58:39 - 11:07:04","影片長度":"00:08:25","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":505,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:07:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:58:39+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":370,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（10時58分）謝謝主席，有請委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：麥委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：好久不見。"],["徐委員長佳青：很高興見到你。"],["麥委員玉珍：好。國際教育現行措施及相關法規，分散於各部會，不論是招生制度，還是獎學金的發放，都有很多重疊的情況發生，造成多頭馬車現象。先以僑生獎學金發放的部分來說，僑委會跟教育部都有設獎學金，兩者並沒有排擠效應，就是沒有規定申請到A就不能申請到B，也就是可以重複申請。再來是僑生來臺的就學管道，如果要參加海外聯合招生，要找教育部；如果要自行回國申請，就找僑委會。我覺得僑生在海外求學很辛苦，但是我們要辦個東西就是跑來跑去啊！就是不同的部會、不同的部門，所以委員長認為這些散落在各部會相關的資源和法規要如何整合？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，雖然我們有外交部、教育部跟僑委會不同的獎學金，但是這些獎學金的對象是不一樣的，以外交部來說，它的獎學金不是給僑生，而都是給外籍學生，就是其他世界各國的外籍人士，那教育部的獎學金絕大多數也是走這個方向，只有僑委會是針對僑生給獎學金，所以如果僑生真的要申請高額獎學金，那就只有針對我們僑委會而已，其他像外交部跟教育部事實上都是給外籍人士。但是我知道這裡面會有一個差異性存在，因為我們有些僑生事實上也具有外國的國籍，他同時也可以用外籍人士的方式去申請，所以我們比較簡單的就是在招生的時候跟僑生說，如果你來臺灣是要走華語的教學路線，那我們就建議你跟僑委會來申請，用我們的獎學金；那如果你是要走外籍生的路線，我們就不管你的身分是什麼，你要走外籍生的路線，那你就考慮跟教育部或外交部去申請。所以他要先確定他是屬於哪一種類別，所以他只會有一個方向申請，不會說他同時申請外交部又可以申請僑委會的獎學金，不會這樣，我們公務部門不會讓兩個東西同時並行，這樣子確實會有排擠作用，所以一個學生只會拿到其中一個獎學金而已，不會有第二個。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，謝謝。就是因為有太多的亂象了，還有現在又加上國發會要推獎學金，所以要看怎麼樣去跟僑生說明，因為每個僑生來臺灣，他們都不是臺灣人，是不同國家的人，所以會有這種亂象，還有要去爭取的獎學金就變成沒有整合。"],["徐委員長佳青：跟麥委員報告，確實您指示的方向是非常正確的，我們也顧慮到這一點，就是對於來自各國的學生，給他們的資訊一定要非常清楚而且非常充分，這樣他們才能夠瞭解內容，以我僑委會來講，我們雖然是用華語為核心，可是事實上在執行面上這幾年下來我們已經用多語的，如果去到越南，我一定是用越語加上華語兩種語言並行；去到柬埔寨就是柬埔寨語跟華語；然後去到菲律賓，我們就是英語跟華語；到印尼，我們就是用印尼語跟華語。所以不管是我們的海報單張（flyer）或者是我們的影片，我們都會做到這個程度，甚至我們也會找僑生來協助我們做一些錄音，用當地的語言來解釋，這樣家長、老師、學生才會比較可以清楚的瞭解。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，謝謝。現在全國各大產業都在缺工，但是因為低薪而導致少子化，我們現在就是產業發展失衡等等，所以造成很大的缺工，但是各部門在臺灣的招生部分，針對半導體、資訊安全還有綠能等重要產業廣邀僑生來這邊，這是廣邀的部分，但是我們要留才還是要有一個部會來幫忙，像機械業、商業、運輸等其他產業也都缺人才，如果培育僑生只限於重要產業，會不會太限縮僑生的發展呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，我們跟國發會還有跨部會都有開會做協調，就是對於國內缺工的產業我們都優先評估，比方說，我們前年本來一度對服務業的部分就不再招生了，包括餐飲、觀光旅館、烘焙等等，本來沒有了，可是從去年開始我們積極的說其實我們這方面真的很需要，所以我們又恢復開始招生，類似這樣的，我們都是用動態性的去管理，隨時跟經濟部、勞動部都保持連動的關係，知道在市場上面目前哪些業別可能需求量會比較高。"],["麥委員玉珍：是，我這次回去越南，有跟我們的外交部做了座談，我覺得我們是幫產業招生，但是沒有一個部會專門做留才，我們花很多錢去找很多學生來臺灣，越南已經有將近3萬人來臺灣了，但是就是限於不同的產業，也沒有一個部會專門在僑生畢業後把他們轉介到各個部會，沒有一個部會負責，也沒有一個就業的機制對我們的僑生留才，所以變成我們花很多錢讓很多不同國家的學生來我們臺灣，我們拿納稅人的錢去栽培這些人才，但是沒有一個機制留才，就導致大家來這邊學習，但是我們培訓後沒有後續的發展，也沒有留才的機制，所以請委員長要幫我們，就是未來可以有這樣子的一個機制，對來臺灣的僑生我們也留才，也不會花了人民的納稅錢，但是都只是幫別的國家栽培人才，我們卻用不到這些人才，這樣就變成我們浪費資源了。"],["徐委員長佳青：我瞭解麥委員的關心跟對我們的期許，我們僑委會會加強，我們從去年開始就舉辦僑生就業博覽會，本來只有在北部場的相關企業，我們今年又擴大到全國，北部、南部都有，北、中、南、東我們都有去辦說明會。"],["麥委員玉珍：希望我們建立一個完善的就業服務網絡來協助僑生就業，就是我們要有負責重點產業的部會。"],["徐委員長佳青：OK。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝您，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝麥委員，接下來請楊瓊瓔委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.9590937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.3303437500000002,"end":3.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.57471875,"end":3.5915937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.5915937500000004,"end":4.418468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.93659375,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.03784375,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.855968750000002,"end":13.227218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.851593750000003,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.54909375000001,"end":188.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.04721875,"end":139.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.05221875,"end":213.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.79221875000002,"end":205.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.14221875,"end":206.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.14971875,"end":243.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.62159375000002,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.96659375,"end":338.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.40846875,"end":338.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.50971875000005,"end":386.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.05909375000005,"end":387.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.19409375000004,"end":397.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.35284375000003,"end":475.45034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.17096875000004,"end":454.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.38721875000005,"end":492.39284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.28096875000006,"end":479.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.39284375000005,"end":492.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.42659375000005,"end":492.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.96659375,"end":503.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.34159375,"end":496.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.91096875000005,"end":498.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.12971875000005,"end":503.86784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.229,"end":4.133,"text":"主席有請委員長請委員長麥委員你好好久不見很高興見到你"},{"start":14.488,"end":18.151,"text":"我們國際交易現在就是實施相關的法規分於各部會不論是招生的制度還是漲協金的發放有很多的重疊的情況的發生造成有多頭馬車的現象先以僑生漲協金發放的部分來說好了僑委會跟"},{"start":39.184,"end":43.687,"text":"教育部都有涉以長誰金還有這兩則有沒有排級的效應也可能申請到A又不能申請到B這樣的話還是可以重複申請再來僑生來台就是就寫管道如果要參加海外聯合招生找教育部如果要自行回國申請的話就找僑委會我覺得"},{"start":68.306,"end":70.348,"text":"所以委員長認為這些的散落在各部會相關的資源和法規如何整合?"},{"start":86.884,"end":111.552,"text":"跟委員報告因為雖然我們有外交部教育部跟僑委會不同的獎學金但是這個獎學金的對象是不一樣的以外交部來說他的獎學金不是給僑生都是給外籍學生就是其他世界各國的外籍人士教育部的獎學金裡面絕大多數也是走這個方向"},{"start":113.172,"end":137.19,"text":"只有僑委會是針對僑生給獎學金那所以如果僑生真的要拿高額獎學金的申請高額獎學金的那就只有針對我們僑委會而已那其他的兩個外交部跟這個教育部事實上都是給外籍人士但是我知道這裡面會有一個差異性存在是因為我們有些僑生事實上他也具有外國的"},{"start":138.191,"end":138.932,"text":"如果你是要走這個來臺灣用華語的教學路線的"},{"start":153.447,"end":174.857,"text":"那我們就建議你就跟僑委會來申請那用我們的獎學金那如果你是要走外籍生的路線的我們就不管你的這個身份是什麼你說外籍生的路線的那你就考慮跟教育部或外交部去申請那所以他要先確定他是屬於哪一種類別所以他只會有一個方向申請不會說他同時申請外交部又可以申請僑委會不會我們公務部門不會讓這個兩個東西同時並行這樣子"},{"start":181.96,"end":182.42,"text":"因為每個僑生來台灣都不是台灣人,又不同國家的人"},{"start":206.229,"end":209.89,"text":"所以說這種亂象還有就是要去爭取的這邊層次沒有一個整合跟麥家報告對確實您指示的非常方向是正確我們也顧慮到這一點說來自各國的學生他的資訊一定要有非常清楚而且非常充分他才能夠了解內容所以以我僑委會來講"},{"start":230.956,"end":248.805,"text":"我雖然大部分雖然說是用華語為核心可是事實上在執行面上我這幾年下來我們已經用多語的如果去到越南我一定是用粵語加上華語並行兩種語言去到柬埔寨就是柬埔寨語跟華語"},{"start":250.346,"end":275.757,"text":"去到菲律賓我們就是英語跟華語到印尼我們就是用印尼語跟華語所以不管是我們的海報單張或者是我們的影片我們都會做到這個程度那甚至我們也會找僑生來協助我們做一些錄音用當地的語言來解釋這樣子的話家長、老師、學生他才會比較清楚可以了解"},{"start":276.477,"end":282.521,"text":"好 謝謝所以因為在全國各大產業就是都在缺工但是呢因為低薪就是導致少子化但是我們現在就是產業發展的失衡等等所以造成很大的缺工但是各個部分各部門在台灣的就是招生的部分的話就是像半導體啊資訊安全還有綠能等"},{"start":303.055,"end":303.095,"text":"麥玉珍"},{"start":329.002,"end":330.424,"text":"跟委員報告我們跟國發會還有跨部會都有做"},{"start":343.919,"end":347.242,"text":"這個開會的協調就是說雖然我們國內缺工產業裡面我們都優先評估那比方說我們前年本來一度服務業的部分我們就不再招生了包括餐飲、觀光旅館、烘焙等等"},{"start":364.079,"end":385.607,"text":"本來沒有了可是去年開始我們積極的說其實我們這方面真的很需要所以我們又恢復開始招生所以類似這樣我們都是用動態性的去管理隨時跟經濟部跟勞動部我們都保持聯動的關係知道說在市場上面目前哪些業別可能他的需求量會比較高"},{"start":387.829,"end":395.454,"text":"我是希望因為我這次有回去越南跟我們的外交部有在座談所以我覺得說我們是招生產業但是沒有一個部會沒有一個專門就是為留產因為我們花很多錢來去找很多學生來台灣我們在越南來台灣已經有3萬"},{"start":410.424,"end":410.464,"text":"﹚麥玉珍﹚"},{"start":430.663,"end":438.91,"text":"因為我們變成我們花很多錢讓很多不同國家的學生來我們台灣我們要拿我們的納稅的錢要去栽培這個人才但是沒有一個機制留才這樣的話就導致說大家來這邊工作但是我們培訓後沒有後續的發展也沒有說留才的機制"},{"start":451.101,"end":452.181,"text":"所以請我們的委員長就是要幫我們就是可以未來有這樣子的一個機制的話對僑生來臺灣我們也留財也不用說花到我們的就是人民的"},{"start":466.568,"end":469.83,"text":"我了解麥委員的關心跟對我們的期許我們僑委會會加強我們去年開始就辦僑生就業博覽會本來只有在北部廠的這個相關企業我們今年又擴大全國北部南部都有然後也"},{"start":489.002,"end":489.282,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"151413","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151413","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445a534bb9f0fd05c9a04d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94e027a2bf8945983e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"10:55:23 - 11:04:31","影片長度":"00:09:08","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":548,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:04:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:55:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":846,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時55分）謝謝主席，我想要請台電的總經理。"],["主席：我們再請王總經理。"],["王總經理耀庭：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：王總，我想要請問一下，我們在2021年跟2022年停電事件的專案報告裡面，你已經說明了，我們夜間就是因為太陽能電力的供應下降，所以你們就是要想辦法讓夜間的電力彈性可以恢復，可是到今年已經2024年 了，為什麼我們還是沒有辦法？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，這次最主要是因為地震之後的一些機組陸陸續續故障，內傷的關係陸陸續續故障，它不會一次發生。這個狀況之下，15號當天是下午半個小時之內同時發生兩部，應該講4部，總共4部機組同時沒有電送出來，這個在台電送電歷史……"],["謝委員衣鳯：哪4部啊？"],["王總經理耀庭：在大潭電廠的8號機110萬瓩，然後明潭有3部的抽蓄發電機，因為它送電出來有一個很重要的設備叫做Bus（匯流排），因為地震搖晃了之後在15號當天造成它短路，所以3部機組的電也送不出來，就是同時發生而且在這麼短時間內，又是我用電最緊的、最多負載的時候發生。所以是連續兩個衝擊、重擊台電……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你這一次的備載都沒有用到核電？我看到都是柴油，就是台積電的自備的36萬瓩的柴油發電……"],["王總經理耀庭：所以我們的備轉……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有核二、核三的柴油發電機？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。我們等於在備轉的準備方面，會有一道又一道的防線，就是預防剛剛講到15號當天發生的這麼重大的衝擊，都是為這個在做準備。這一次就是台電被重擊，但是因為我們的備轉容量是夠的，所以我們有守住，即使發生了這個事，我們的備轉容量率還有3%，就是這樣子。所以我很感謝同仁，大家這麼努力預防危機。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是我想要理解的是，如果我們備轉的容量夠，為什麼需要用到這麼多的柴油發電機，還要用到台積電的？"],["王總經理耀庭：因為我們還要再預留3%在最後，萬一還有下一個重擊台電的事故發生的時候，我們還要能守住不限電，所以我們先把其他的部分先用掉，留100萬瓩的餘裕容量在那邊，大概是這個目的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有，我有看到我們用了台積電自備的36萬瓩的柴油發電機，根據台電111年度的永續報告書裡面，台積電強調自己使用再生能源是達到預設的標準喔！但是在2019到2022年，他們直接使用天然氣、柴油的是8.61億度到13.36億度耶！如果我們真的是沒有缺電，真的是穩定供電的話，為什麼台積電會使用柴油跟天然氣，而不是使用再生能源？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，在2021那段時間，主要是因為國內的景氣非常好，尤其是中美的問題之後很多臺商回來，所以那個時候的用電量突然暴增，我們增加了大概6%的用電量，從來沒有過這麼大的一個用電量。在那個時候，在某一些情境之下，然後台電的機組又有故障，所以那時候、那幾年有請台積電出來協助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是未來有可能還是有訂單你也期待產業的訂單好嘛！在產業訂單好的情況下，如果我們沒有辦法穩定供電，代表我們電力是不足的，是不是？"],["王總經理耀庭：其實這幾年台電在電力方面一直持續建設，森霸是IPP，不是台電的電廠，它最近已經在試運轉，包括我們在臺中也有兩部機組，興達也有3部機組正在興建，這些量持續興建，就是為了因應未來用電的成長而準備，台電都會在前面5年、10年之間，為了預備未來的用電需求一直努力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我還想請問王部長。"],["王部長美花：是，委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：王部長，你要卸任了，要跟你恭喜還是要跟你歡送？你給自己打幾分？"],["王部長美花：沒有打分數的問題，就是做好每一天的工作。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你沒有打分數。你對未來新任的部長有什麼期許？"],["王部長美花：我們非常感謝他願意承擔這樣的重責大任，對臺灣未來的經濟發展一定很有幫助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是嗎？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他是對半導體最瞭解的部長，你對他瞭解的程度怎麼樣？"],["王部長美花：我們後續會……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你可以比較，有什麼關係？反正你要卸任了。"],["王部長美花：沒有，我們後續會把業務好好的交接給新的部長。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你看到了台積電永續報告，他們在2019到2022年，使用天然氣跟柴油是8.6億度到13.36億度，代表對台積電來講，能源穩定的問題非常重要。它在臺灣出口的GDP占非常重要的比例，所以我認為怎麼樣讓臺灣的電力可以穩定是非常重要的議題，尤其是在這一次的大停電之後，部長會怎麼樣期許？"],["王部長美花：確實大家都很關心電力，這個部分怎麼樣做好電力供給，我們也會跟新部長做好交接。現在我們正在做的電源開發，或者是因應產業界新的需求，怎麼樣搭配提早準備等等，我們一定都會說明。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們今天還有審核後端基金，這4年來我一直在想，我也問王總經理，到底我們的核燃料棒現在是核廢料嗎？怎麼樣重新再利用？國際間已經有先進的科技可以重新再利用，對於相關的議題台電有沒有進行研究？"],["王總經理耀庭：台電持續關注國際上最新的科技應用，就像委員提到的，這些已經用過的核燃料的這些廢料可不可以再精進？當然國外也在做這方面的研究，一旦有突破、有成果，我們也會照這個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們有沒有追蹤，進一步瞭解我們的核廢料是不是可以重新再利用？畢竟這些東西都影響到居民，怎麼樣減輕居民對於過去我們使用核電造成的壓力？未來繼續使用核電的時候，我們才可以解決核廢料的問題，是不是？"],["王總經理耀庭：是，我們現在在核二、核一廠區要蓋中期的核廢料貯存場，我們會把已經用過的燃料棒放在那個地方，一旦未來技術有如委員說的，可以把這些廢燃料再濃縮然後再利用，這些技術一旦成熟，我們馬上就會做後續的一些處置跟運用。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["王總經理耀庭：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請邱志偉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":4.654718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.82346875,"end":6.3590937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.69659375,"end":7.152218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.574093750000001,"end":8.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.974718750000001,"end":10.240343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.977843750000002,"end":19.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.77471875,"end":21.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.97221875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.47784375,"end":29.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.49471875,"end":30.000968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.579093750000002,"end":55.313468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.752218750000004,"end":60.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.83159375,"end":61.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.632843750000006,"end":66.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.00784375,"end":70.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.60221875,"end":79.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.98471875,"end":105.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.62534375,"end":85.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.67534375000001,"end":89.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.29471875,"end":94.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.22534375000001,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.28846875,"end":107.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.07971875000001,"end":124.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.29409375,"end":130.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.61409375,"end":131.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.84596875,"end":133.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.41096875,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.42784375000002,"end":133.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.76221875000002,"end":154.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.82534375,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.52534375000002,"end":170.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.58221875,"end":175.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.86846875,"end":176.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.13409375,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.07909375,"end":183.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.96846875,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.41096875000002,"end":188.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.35159375,"end":223.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.21534375000002,"end":234.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.96471875,"end":240.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.31409375,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.71034375000002,"end":243.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.41471875000002,"end":267.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.32409375000003,"end":257.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.17909375,"end":267.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.21284375,"end":283.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.98659375,"end":285.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.42096875000004,"end":307.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.09471875,"end":294.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.13471875000005,"end":312.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.33221875000004,"end":314.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.42909375,"end":317.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.54159375,"end":324.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.52034375,"end":326.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.86596875000004,"end":327.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.40596875,"end":329.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.27471875000003,"end":330.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.72596875000005,"end":333.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.81034375,"end":332.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.17284375,"end":336.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.02909375,"end":336.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.92346875000004,"end":342.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.03659375,"end":343.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.92659375,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.96721875000003,"end":366.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.45971875000004,"end":362.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.34534375000004,"end":370.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.89721875000004,"end":387.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.67909375000005,"end":407.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.03909375,"end":407.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.66346875000005,"end":407.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.37221875,"end":430.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.96784375000004,"end":431.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.01846875,"end":442.57784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.78034375000004,"end":444.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.26096875,"end":462.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.09784375000004,"end":464.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.66721875,"end":472.07534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.15159375,"end":470.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.31159375000004,"end":474.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.45471875000004,"end":483.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.36471875,"end":515.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.64659375,"end":541.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.85221875,"end":522.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.86909375,"end":523.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.0547187500001,"end":523.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.54534375,"end":543.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.2834687500001,"end":544.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.9709687500001,"end":547.03409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":10.071,"text":"我們請謝衣鳯委員因為我們沒有休息所以如果行政部門有需要請自行謝謝主席我想要請台電的總經理我們再請王總經理"},{"start":30.622,"end":56.95,"text":"黃總我想要請問一下就是我們在2021年跟我們2022年的停電就是事件的專案報告裡面你已經說明了我們夜間的就是因為太陽能電力的供應下降所以你們就是要想辦法讓夜間的電力的彈性可以恢復可是為什麼現在到了今年已經2023了"},{"start":59.051,"end":63.681,"text":"我們還是沒有辦法是不是?"},{"start":63.681,"end":65.865,"text":"2024跟委員報告齁這次最主要是因為"},{"start":67.062,"end":89.19,"text":"地震之後的一些機組陸陸續續故障陸陸續續內傷不關系陸陸續續故障他不會是發生那這個狀況之下在15號當天是下午同時他半個小時之內發生的兩部應該講四部總共四部機組同時沒有電送出來這是個在台電送電的意思"},{"start":90.43,"end":114.87,"text":"在那個我的大潭電廠的8號機110萬千瓦然後呢在明潭的有三部的抽蓄發電機那是因為它的送電出來一個很重要的一個設備叫做BUS那個BUS呢因為地震搖晃了之後就在那個15號當天造成它短路所以它那個三部機組的電也送不出來就是同時發生而且在這麼短又是我用電最緊的時候最多的"},{"start":115.53,"end":140.075,"text":"負載的時候它發生所以那是一個連續兩個重擊台電的一個一個一個所以你這次的備載都沒有用到核電我看到都是柴油就是台積電的自備的36萬千瓦的柴油發電所以我們的備轉方面還有核二核三的柴油發電機是我們等於是說在備轉的準備方面呢是會一道又一道的防線就是預防剛剛講到15號當天發生的這麼重重大的衝擊"},{"start":142.876,"end":146.357,"text":"可是我想要理解的是如果說我們備轉的容量夠那為什麼需要用到就是說這麼多的柴油發電機還要用到台積電的"},{"start":172.113,"end":188.249,"text":"因為我們還要預留3%在最後萬一還有下一個的重極台電的一個事故發生的時候我們還要能守住不限電所以我們先把其他的部分先用掉留100萬千瓦的餘裕容量在那邊大概是這個目的"},{"start":190.911,"end":209.597,"text":"我有看到我們用了台積電自備的36萬千瓦的柴油發電機但是根據台電111年度的永續報告書裡面台積電強調自己使用再生能源是達到預設的標準"},{"start":211.457,"end":239.919,"text":"但是在2019到2022年他們直接使用天然氣柴油的是8.61億度到13.36億度那如果我們說我們真的是沒有缺電真的是穩定供電的話為什麼台積電會使用那個柴油跟天然氣而不是使用再生能源"},{"start":240.359,"end":266.702,"text":"好 跟委員報告在2021那段時間主要是因為國內的景氣非常的好尤其是中美的問題之後很多台商回來所以那個時候的用電量突然暴增我們增加了大概6%的用電量從來沒有過這麼大的一個用電量所以在那個時候在某一些情境之下然後台電的機組又有故障所以那時候那幾年有請台積電出來協助"},{"start":267.523,"end":267.683,"text":"發言委員"},{"start":285.634,"end":307.01,"text":"所以跟委員報告其實這幾年臺電的電力一直在持續的建設包括像最近森巴,森巴是IPP不是臺電的電廠它已經在最近在試運轉了然後包括我們的臺中也有兩部機組新達也有三部機組正在興建所以我們這些量持續的在興建就是為了因應未來的用電的成長而在準備當中"},{"start":308.471,"end":316.999,"text":"臺電都會在前面5年10年之間就在預備未來的用電需求一直在努力那我還想請問王部長王部長你要卸任了這要跟你恭喜還是要跟你歡送啊?你給自己打幾分?"},{"start":334.469,"end":360.009,"text":"沒有打分數的問題就是做好每一天的工作你沒有打分數喔你對未來的那個我們新任的部長有什麼期許我們非常感謝他願意來承擔這樣的一個重責大任那對台灣的未來的經濟發展一定很有幫助是嗎他是對於我們半導體最瞭解的部長你覺得你跟他瞭解的程度是怎樣"},{"start":360.829,"end":365.393,"text":"臺積電的永續報告裡面他們在2019年到2022年他們使用天然氣跟柴油是8.6億度到13.36億度那代表了對於臺積電來講"},{"start":388.757,"end":407.645,"text":"能源穩定的問題是非常重要的那它佔了台灣出口的GDP非常重要的比例我認為怎麼樣子讓台灣的電力可以穩定是非常重要的議題尤其是在這一次的大停電之後那部長你會怎麼樣期許他"},{"start":408.705,"end":416.871,"text":"我們確實這個電力的部分大家都很關心那我想這個部分怎麼樣做好電力的供給我們也會跟新部長做好交接現在我們正在做的電源的開發也好或者因應產業界有新的需求我們怎麼樣搭配要提早準備等等我們一定都會去做說明我們今天還有審就是核後端的那個基金是"},{"start":434.804,"end":462.255,"text":"但是我其實在這四年來我一直在想那我也有問王總經理到底對於我們的核燃料棒現在是核廢料嗎怎麼樣子重新再利用那國際間已經有先進的科技可以重新再利用那對於相關的議題臺電有沒有進行相關的研究來"},{"start":464.741,"end":483.822,"text":"向委員報告齁,臺電持續在關注上國際上最新的科技的應用,就像委員提到的這些已經用過核燃料的這些廢料可不可以再精進的部分,那當然國外也在做這方面研究,那只要一旦有突破有成果,我們也會照這個成果。 那你們有沒有去"},{"start":485.683,"end":502.75,"text":"請問您們有沒有去追蹤進一步的來瞭解說我們的核廢料是不是可以重新再用畢竟這些東西都是影響到居民嗎那怎麼樣子減輕居民對於過去我們使用"},{"start":504.931,"end":528.668,"text":"合電這樣子的一個壓力那未來如果我們繼續使用核電的時候我們才可以就是說解決核廢料的問題是不是是跟委員報告我們現在在核二、核一場場區要蓋中間的中期的這個核廢料的儲存場在那個儲存場我們會把已經用過的燃料棒放在那個地方"},{"start":529.088,"end":542.593,"text":"那一旦未來技術有如委員說的他可以再把這些燃料、廢燃料再濃縮然後再利用那這些技術但成熟這些我們就馬上就會有做後續的一些處置和應用好 謝謝喔"}]}},{"id":"151412","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151412","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4457d83b8a273f54ac1f81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94233332d118b3cbf45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯建銘","委員發言時間":"10:53:14 - 11:01:53","影片長度":"00:08:39","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":519,"end_time":"2024-04-18T11:01:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:53:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":290,"blocks":[["柯委員建銘：（10時53分）來，很可惜，黃委員走了，他要挑戰我，我馬上要回答啊，他這是訴外裁判，今天講國會改革，他提到其他問題去，沒有關係，正好我在場。第一個，他說他很守規矩，時間到就要走，剛才時間到了以後，他後面還講多久？這個是活生生的案例，大家現在都看得很清楚吧。當然這個大家盡量遵守發言的時間，這是好事，難免有時候，國會是沒有100%啦，但是大家都基於尊重的立場上，所以黃委員，你不要說一說人就跑掉了嘛，有氣魄的話，就留下來辯論，這才是我們今天要面對的。","他講兩個問題，我回答。第一個，729釋字是怎麼來的？729釋字是因為我引起的，當年9月2號政爭，大家都知道吧，我告黃世銘、告馬英九，我告什麼？捍衛憲政體制，終結特務治國。黃世銘監聽國會，這是何等大事啊，全世界民主國家，能夠容許他和馬英九兩個人，天天看監聽的資料，研究如何追殺柯建銘，如何做政治操作，這是馬英九一輩子的恥辱，黃世銘因此而下臺。可以監聽國會，然後對我是24小時監聽的，各位，這是民主國家容許的現象嗎？所以我在這裡的時候我問黃世銘，你跟馬英九見面幾次，為什麼一個檢察總長可以隨意跟總統碰面呢？他說一次，我說你再想清楚，他說兩次，我說「你死定了」。各位，這個都是有留下紀錄的，我說「你死定了」，為什麼？你根本隨時跟他見面嘛，隨時跟他通電話嘛！檢察總長跟總統在做政治操作，違法監聽，這個在世界民主國家，總統早就下臺了，總統是憲法的守護者，所以我要行使調閱，調閱什麼？調通聯紀錄！到底馬英九跟黃世銘的通話通聯紀錄，這一調出來就真相大白，馬英九是何止難堪啊，這官司他要跟我打嗎？是不是這樣？所以他們行使抵抗權，不提供就是不提供，後來黃世銘還曾經跟蘋果日報講說，他要跟馬英九通話無數，常常是通來通去，所以我要調他的通聯紀錄就是如此啊。他拒絕提供，我就積極來啊，所以才有一個大法官729號解釋嘛，說偵查中的案件不可以調閱，那我也是肯認啊。這是這樣走過來的歷史，黃國昌到底懂什麼？他以為抓到我小辮子，可以在這裡打我一番、痛打一番，可是他沒有臉來面對我。","第二個，有關什麼叫做逕付二讀，逕付二讀的問題，周萬來的書寫得很清楚，周萬來敢否認這件事情嗎？逕付二讀是說立法院將案子抽出來逕付二讀，逕付二讀可以馬上通過嗎？當然是要朝野協商一個月嘛，否則的話，立法院對於這個案子，我們國會改革法案也不必在這裡審了啦！禮拜一國民黨也不要演這一套，逕付二讀就馬上通過，逕付二讀當然要朝野協商啊。他提一個案子說逕付二讀，然後通過，那是朝野協商完畢，大家都簽好了，大家都簽好，大家都認為這個案子逕付二讀有急迫性，那是大家都簽好了的，各黨黨鞭簽完字的，所以我在這裡提案是大家都同意了才會過啊！黃國昌，到底他這個法律人，居然可以不顧法律的爭議，所有過程是怎麼樣？以為在這個地方可以把我打死，一棒子打死，希望他等一下進入逐條的時候，我來跟他對決這些問題。時間到了嗎？因為我有一點黃斑，看不到。","還有3分半，所以今天我們在講國會改革，國會改革的時候，就比喻說把它抽出逕付二讀馬上通過，不可能的，即便你用手段抽出逕付二讀，可以，但還是要朝野協商一個月嘛，但是那時候逕付二讀，是在大家同意底下可以馬上通過，這是立法院最快速的一刻，一定是有緊急事項，可能是條約案，可能是大法官釋憲時間一年到了，不趕快處理，立法院會有失職守。像這種情況是很特別，大家有共識，才有可能提出逕付二讀，然後大家簽朝野協商讓它過去，所以黃國昌故意忽略那一段。如果要說事情，大家就要一項一項來講，所以今天我要在這裡用很短的時間來告訴國民黨立委，我剛才點出一個很重要的問題，沒有程序正義，絕對沒有實質正義，你禮拜一那個所有程序全部違法，我不知道將來在院會的時候如何表決，沈發惠已經很客氣、委婉的點出來，我可以把它明講，所有反對都要經過議決的，大法官342號解釋，大法官342號解釋，為什麼會有342？因為國安五法的關係，當年國安五法逕付二讀，在院會表決、在院會處理的時候，王金平院長馬上喊通過，沒有經過議決，所以大法官342號解釋說立法院所有的事情經過議決的話，除非違反憲法，才可以排除其他法律。因為你這個是修憲的法案，你可以這樣搞法嗎？立法院沒有經過合法程序的話，沒有一件會通過，都是重來的，當然一例一休也是重來，當然國務機要費也是重來，因為在大家衝突底下，沒有辦法處理。我們禮拜一有非常從容合理的時間全部給你們，我眼睜睜看你怎麼處理程序。吳宗憲委員是新科委員，他根本不瞭解，他在這個地方犯下極大錯誤，已經埋下國會改革五法在院會處理的衝突之因素。","我剛才說，國民黨總召傅崐萁委員馬上要去大陸，他以為安心可以走了，他所要的有些方面都走完了。我敬告各位，國民黨委員那天在審查的時候，表情是無奈的，內心是掙扎的。因為國民黨傅崐萁要和黃國昌把失速列車開往懸崖，讓你們集體去跳樓，我們要當毀憲的兵馬俑共同埋葬嗎？這一刻你們自己好好想一想。奉勸國民黨委員，坐在這裡，主席也很無奈，也去跟傅總召講，但傅總召跟黃國昌兩個人綁在一起，以為可以轉動臺灣、轉動全世界，國會就是他們掌控。國民黨的委員，你們未來是要接受民意調查的，這一刻是你們最後決定的時候。"],["主席：謝謝柯總召。剛剛柯總召所說的那個主席，應該是指週一輪值的吳召委。不好意思，還是要說明一下。","接下來有請羅委員智強發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.684093750000001,"end":6.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.658468750000001,"end":10.324718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.333468750000002,"end":8.974718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.61159375,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.83096875,"end":11.910968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.134718750000001,"end":11.168468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.219093750000003,"end":11.286593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.978468750000001,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.72909375,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.14596875,"end":20.550968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.79096875,"end":24.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.360343750000002,"end":26.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.777843750000002,"end":28.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.02221875,"end":30.895343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.96284375,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.215968750000002,"end":38.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.64096875,"end":39.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.767218750000005,"end":41.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.931593750000005,"end":43.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.315343750000004,"end":46.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.48346875,"end":48.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.39034375,"end":62.04659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.43471875,"end":64.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.30784375,"end":66.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.55221875000001,"end":68.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.62784375000001,"end":69.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.75846875,"end":70.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.19284375000001,"end":72.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.13346875,"end":73.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.24721875,"end":75.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.47471875000001,"end":78.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.02284375,"end":80.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.52034375000001,"end":83.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.08096875000001,"end":86.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.69659375,"end":88.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.06346875,"end":90.39659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.32471875,"end":92.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.50159375000001,"end":94.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.13846875,"end":98.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.15471875,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.17971875,"end":103.18784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.09909375000001,"end":105.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.42784375000001,"end":108.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.93784375000001,"end":111.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.66721875,"end":115.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.62471875000001,"end":117.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.72971875,"end":119.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.19784375,"end":123.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.80909375,"end":126.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.16721875,"end":129.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.55909375000002,"end":133.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.47846875000002,"end":133.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.20409375,"end":135.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.22909375,"end":137.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.52409375000002,"end":140.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.43096875,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.45596875,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.30784375000002,"end":147.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.17659375000002,"end":153.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.88034375,"end":156.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.96846875,"end":158.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.83721875,"end":161.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.09409375,"end":163.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.27534375000002,"end":164.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.01784375,"end":165.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.57034375,"end":167.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.95409375,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.70471875,"end":171.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.54409375,"end":172.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.01659375,"end":173.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.14721875,"end":175.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.49721875,"end":176.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.74159375000002,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.67784375000002,"end":181.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.17534375000002,"end":184.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.90909375,"end":187.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.51221875000002,"end":188.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.45721875,"end":194.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.85284375,"end":197.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.95784375000002,"end":199.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.94471875000002,"end":202.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.03721875000002,"end":208.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.07846875,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.10346875000002,"end":213.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.34346875,"end":217.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.62971875000002,"end":222.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.86096875,"end":224.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.24471875,"end":226.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.76346875000002,"end":228.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.94034375,"end":230.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.74596875,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.31096875000003,"end":235.43721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.17971875,"end":240.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.71909375,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.48659375000003,"end":254.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.65784375,"end":256.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.45909375,"end":258.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.14659375,"end":260.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.13784375,"end":263.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.54659375,"end":267.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.25909375000003,"end":274.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.49846875000003,"end":278.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.94096875,"end":280.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.66221875,"end":282.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.87284375,"end":284.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.79659375,"end":286.01159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.51784375,"end":289.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.97721875,"end":290.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.20909375,"end":298.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.41034375000004,"end":301.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.72221875,"end":304.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.67534375,"end":306.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.56096875000003,"end":313.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.38284375,"end":314.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.37409375000004,"end":322.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.49534375,"end":323.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.45284375,"end":325.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.79846875000004,"end":329.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.29159375,"end":331.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.74284375,"end":344.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.31034375,"end":348.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.58409375,"end":349.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.42346875000004,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.84471875,"end":356.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.62909375000004,"end":359.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.52721875000003,"end":363.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.48471875,"end":364.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.04971875,"end":366.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.59784375000004,"end":370.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.39909375,"end":373.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.06534375,"end":375.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.93846875,"end":377.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.19971875000005,"end":379.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.96721875000003,"end":382.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.80659375000005,"end":392.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.62346875000003,"end":400.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.81221875,"end":402.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.95534375000005,"end":404.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.64284375000005,"end":407.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.00096875,"end":409.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.54909375000005,"end":415.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.76346875,"end":417.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.60284375000003,"end":419.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.47596875000005,"end":428.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.95971875000004,"end":430.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.28846875000005,"end":433.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.27971875000003,"end":434.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.93346875000003,"end":437.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.03846875000005,"end":440.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.97471875,"end":443.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.67471875,"end":444.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.64909375,"end":446.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.79659375000006,"end":447.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.61909375000005,"end":449.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.39096875,"end":453.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.31034375,"end":454.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.33534375000005,"end":456.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.39846875,"end":458.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.18284375,"end":459.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.54971875,"end":462.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.26659375,"end":464.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.59971875,"end":465.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.64596875,"end":466.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.70471875000004,"end":468.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.88596875,"end":473.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.57284375,"end":476.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.88471875000005,"end":480.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.36096875000004,"end":482.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.95096875,"end":487.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.43159375000005,"end":488.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.27096875,"end":490.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.67159375000006,"end":493.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.02971875000003,"end":495.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.76346875,"end":497.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.43409375000005,"end":502.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.34909375,"end":510.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.88784375000006,"end":516.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.2578437500001,"end":519.9665937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.697,"end":6.378,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":25.404,"end":46.121,"text":"很可惜,潘委員走了,走了啦。他要挑戰我,我馬上要回答。他在做宿外裁判,今天講國會改革,他提到其他問題去,沒有關係,正好我在場。第一個,他很守規矩,時間到就要走,剛才時間到以後他後面還講多久?"},{"start":48.04,"end":67.654,"text":"這個活生生的案例大家都現在都看得很清楚吧?當然這個大家這樣所花的時間這是好事,難免有時候國會是沒有100%啦,但是大家都記於尊重立場上。所以呢,黃委員,你們兩個公共不是在爭執嗎?做得好就大家留在一邊。"},{"start":68.775,"end":89.429,"text":"這才是我們今天要面對的他講兩個問題我回答第一個729事實是怎麼來的只有事實因為我引起的當年九月二戰爭大家都知道知道嘛我告黃世民告馬英九這個是我告什麼他有沒有憲政體制終結特務制國黃世民監聽國會"},{"start":93.664,"end":116.523,"text":"這何等大事啊?前世的民主國家,然後和馬來西亞有兩個人天天看監聽資料,如何追查柯建民,如何做政治操作。這是馬來西亞一輩子的恥辱。法治民因此而下台。可以監聽國會,然後都有20小時現役的,各位。"},{"start":120.496,"end":146.651,"text":"這是民主國家的現象嗎?所以我在這裡的時候問王子明你跟馬英九見面幾次?為什麼一個檢察總統誰以為跟總統分門呢?他說一次,我說你再想清楚他說兩次,我說你死定了各位,這個都是有留下的記錄我說你死定了,為什麼?你根本隨時跟他見面嘛隨時跟他通電話嘛"},{"start":148.4,"end":176.809,"text":"而總統跟總統在照政治操作違法監聽這個世界民主國家總統都下台了總統是憲法守護者所以我是要行使吊銳吊銳什麼吊銳通年紀錄到底馬英九跟黃毓民的通話通年紀錄這一吊銳出來真相大白馬英九是何時能看啊"},{"start":177.939,"end":199.643,"text":"這官司他要跟我打嗎?是不是這樣?所以他很情人抵抗前,不提供就是不提供。後來,好像市民還曾經跟蘋果日報講說,他要跟委員長通話無助,通通要通文通緝。所以他要他的通聯紀錄就是如此啊,他既然提供也既然來啊。"},{"start":201.044,"end":221.364,"text":"所以才有他們操作一個,才有一個大法官729解釋嘛,說政策中的案件不可以調研。要問的,這是一個國務區議事這樣走過來,黃國昌到底懂什麼?他以為抓到我小輩子可以在這裡打我一番,痛打一番,可是他沒有臨來面對我。第二個,"},{"start":225.265,"end":229.791,"text":"二、委員呂玲等17人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文修正草案：立法院職權行使法部分條之一條文"},{"start":243.69,"end":262.969,"text":"當然要朝野鄉一個月嘛。合作法立法院隨時讓這個案子本國會會改的這個法也不是在這裡審了啦。禮拜一國民黨也不要演這一套,進入二讀就馬上通過。今天當下朝野協商嗎?他幾個案例說進入二讀然後通過,那是朝野協商還未當下簽好的。"},{"start":264.605,"end":265.526,"text":"彭文昌彭文昌彭文昌彭文昌"},{"start":290.057,"end":314.392,"text":"希望他等一下進入主條的時候,我來跟他對這些問題。時間到了嗎?因為我黃班看不到。還有三分半。所以說今天我們是在講國會改革。國會改革的時候,就比喻說把收支金額組馬上通過,不可能的。請問你有這種手段,收支金額組可以,但是還要朝朝想一個月嗎?"},{"start":315.441,"end":343.875,"text":"當然是那種進入二族大家同意底下會馬上通過這是立法院最快速的一刻。那兩手緊急事項可能是條約案可能是大法院釋憲時間一年到了不趕快處理立法院會有失職守這方面很特別大家有共識的才會可能提出進入二族然後大家牽草而行讓他過去所以黃國昌故意忽略那一段"},{"start":345.336,"end":366.63,"text":"誰要說事情就叫幾個人來說所以今天我要在這裡用很短時間來告訴國務黨立委我剛才點出一個很重要的問題沒有程序正義決定沒有實質正義禮拜一天的所有程序全部違法我不知道"},{"start":369.072,"end":391.971,"text":"將來在議員會所如何表決?什麼我已經很科技危險地點出來,我沒有辦法明講。所有反對都要經過預決了。大法官三四二號解釋,大法官三四二號解釋,你為什麼要三四二?因為國安誤會了關係。當然國安法幾乎都在議員會表決處理的時候,黃金平院長馬上喊通過,沒有經過預決。"},{"start":393.743,"end":408.977,"text":"所以道安上司要解釋說立法院所有的事情經過預決的話除非違反憲法那可以排除其他法律因為你這個是在修憲法案你可以這樣搞法嗎"},{"start":410.578,"end":430.414,"text":"你所有程序,你反正這個程序沒有經過合法程序的話,沒有一件會通過,都是重來的。當然一律修也是重來,當然國務教會也是重來,因為大家衝突底下沒有辦法處理。我們昨天,我們禮拜四在非常充能合理的時間全部給你們,我們真的看你怎麼處理程序。"},{"start":431.328,"end":458.11,"text":"我重申委員新科委員他根本不瞭解他在這個地方犯到幾下錯誤也隱瞞一下國會改革無法在業外處理的忠誠性因素我剛才講說國民黨總召傅文綺委員馬上去大陸他以為安心可以走了他走到幹什麼幹的都委訓斷定都走完了我敬告各位國民黨委員在那天審查的時候"},{"start":459.212,"end":488.598,"text":"面...面...秒情是無奈的,內心是掙扎的因為國民黨...國民黨的部分期判黃國昌搭這個私入列車要開往前來讓你們集體去跳樓這是一個...你們當那個違...違...違憲的兵馬俑共同埋葬嗎?這一刻你們都得好好想一想是怎麼搞的?因為...因為我眼睛紅斑齁我一直想走規矩啊"},{"start":489.492,"end":515.82,"text":"此事若無可奈何,亦要在治療中。所以,恍恍惚惚請國民黨委員,做到這一事,主席會否無奈,你自己副總召說啦。我總召就叫黃國昌兩個拔嘴一下,這是可以轉動台灣,轉動全世界,以為是這樣的,可不可以就是還沒掌控。請國民黨委員,你們未來要接受民意調查的這一刻,是你們最後檢驗時候。"},{"start":519.354,"end":519.374,"text":"案。"}]}},{"id":"151411","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151411","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445d661965a34f06f45f81d0e85270258c9c5dab72e655c1c94f711b04a562537095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"10:43:18 - 10:52:53","影片長度":"00:09:35","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案。\n四、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":575,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:52:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:43:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":258,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（10時43分）麻煩有請立法院秘書長。"],["主席：有請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：秘書長好。延續上一次在針對國會改法案的時候對您所提出來的詢問，我知道您作為立法院的秘書長，基本上是一個行政幕僚總管的性質，所以在很多法案上您不便表示意見，這個我都理解。因此，接下來在針對有關於國會改革相關法案關鍵、重要的問題，您在您方便的程度範圍內表達意見就好，不用覺得太勉強。","過去這段時間，不斷的有立委說，依據大法官釋字729，相關的議案只要有涉及刑事偵查，立法院就不可以組成調閱小組，秘書長，你贊成這樣的法律見解嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：是可以成立啊。"],["黃委員國昌：是可以成立嘛？"],["周秘書長萬來：有它的規範，不違背729號的解釋。"],["黃委員國昌：說得非常的好，可不可以成立調閱小組，跟調閱了以後可以調閱什麼東西，這是兩個完全不同層次的事情，秘書長，你贊不贊成？"],["周秘書長萬來：我贊同。"],["黃委員國昌：贊成嘛？729它的關鍵是什麼？729它的關鍵是我們的立法院司法及法制委員會成立了一個調閱小組以後，跑去跟最高檢察署要求要調閱什麼？要求調閱最高檢察署特他61的案件，秘書長，您知不知道為什麼會有大法官釋字729號解釋文？"],["周秘書長萬來：當時有一些事情發生。"],["柯委員建銘：我提的啊。"],["黃委員國昌：當初有一些事情發生嘛，你講得非常非常的委婉，當初就是司法及法制委員會成立了調閱小組，跟最高檢察署要調閱特他61的卷嘛，所以才被人家提釋憲，大法官才宣告違憲嘛，它宣告違憲的是什麼？你成立這個調閱小組了以後，怎麼會去跟人家調閱偵查中的卷證呢？是這件事情被宣告違憲，這個才是核心。而當初提案要成立這一個監聽調閱小組的，正是民主進步黨的黨團，要去調閱特他61的，也正是民主進步黨的黨團要去調閱這一個，所以被大法官釋字729宣告違憲嘛。民進黨團一天到晚在跟大家講「毀憲亂政、毀憲亂政」，結果在我們的大法官釋憲史上，729號，在729號裡面被清楚地記下一筆的，正是民主進步黨黨團當初要調的東西。","我第二個問題，我覺得非常的納悶，我就回顧當初監聽調閱專案小組那個時候的議事錄，我發現那個時候要調特他61，有一個非常重要的關鍵點，那個重要的關鍵點是說，我們國會的電話是不是有被監聽吧？那為什麼會產生國會的電話是不是有被監聽的問題？因為那時候涉及到了我們那個時候立法院的院長王金平跟在野黨最大的黨鞭柯建銘是不是有關說司法的問題嘛，叫曾勇夫交代高等檢察署的檢察官，針對柯建銘所涉及的刑事案件不可以提起上訴，就是因為這件事情，整個風暴才全部都起來。但我看完了以後，我發現很奇怪，那個時候2013年，監聽調閱專案小組，柯建銘某個程度上可以說是涉案當事人啊，他為什麼可以參加這個監聽調閱專案小組？秘書長，依照您的高度，您對於立法院裡面利益衝突迴避的理解，你認為這樣妥當嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為那是由委員會來組成啦，我不太瞭解。"],["黃委員國昌：你不太瞭解嘛？所以按照秘書長您今天表示的意見是說，以後我們成立不管是調閱委員會，還是調閱小組，涉案的當事人自己參與這個調閱小組，都不會有什麼問題。秘書長，您的立場是這樣嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：應該按照相關規定去處理。"],["黃委員國昌：你認為應該的相關規定是什麼？"],["周秘書長萬來：如果有涉及到有相關性的利害的，當然有時候會需要迴避。"],["黃委員國昌：需要迴避嘛，OK，秘書長，您肯講到這邊，我老實講，已經是勇氣可嘉、勇氣可嘉。好，沒有關係。","第二個爭點，過去又有民主進步黨的立委說逕付二讀一定要交付黨團協商，那時候他們提出這個主張的時候，我就百思不得其解，到底規範在哪裡？結果今天民進黨自己提出來的法案，終於承認了這件事情根本沒規範，這件事情根本沒規範，所以他們希望按照他們覺得他們想要的方式提了這個修正草案嘛，秘書長，我的理解有沒有錯誤？"],["周秘書長萬來：如果容許我講兩分鐘……"],["黃委員國昌：可以，我給你兩分鐘。"],["周秘書長萬來：因為當時在第4屆第6會期的時候，在處理的時候，是有黨團有給法制局，因為黨團協商原則是由法制局主政來寫條文啦，那時候我恰好奉派到台聯那邊去報告一些國會的運作，回來以後，在會辦該法案時，我只增列了第十條之一。當時的法制局是認為大概比較沒有爭議的案會逕付二讀，在實際運作上，反而是爭議的話，才會逕付二讀比較多啦。後來這變成是一個漏洞，形成漏洞以後，就在公民投票法裡面有一個案例，所以這也是不成文的一個議事例啦，並不是在法明文規定，所以才會有第八條的第二項跟第三項，如果有面臨到這個的時候，按照案例就是會交黨團協商，整個的過程是這樣。"],["黃委員國昌：好啦，那問題就來了嘛，第一個，我們剛剛確認了，目前立法院職權行使法也好，議事規則也好，從來沒有一條說逕付二讀要交付黨團協商，我的理解正不正確？"],["周秘書長萬來：也是對，但是……"],["黃委員國昌：好，那我們接下來再看實際的例子嘛，實際的例子在第10屆第1會期第13次會議的時候，民主進步黨黨團自己提案喔，逕付二讀的提案喔，他沒有說要交付黨團協商耶，他逕付二讀的提案是什麼？並照案通過！奇怪了，民主進步黨怎麼一方面主張逕付二讀一定要交付黨團協商，結果自己推的案子，符合他們需要、方便的時候，這個逕付二讀不用交黨團協商，就直接照案通過了。因為我拜讀他們的提案表，這個是我們民主進步黨黨團總召柯建銘簽名，上面寫說擬請院會逕付二讀並什麼？照案通過。那就奇怪啦，民進黨不是說逕付二讀一定要交付黨團協商嗎？怎麼會提出這樣子一個違反他們自己心中所認定的規定的提案呢？這證明了什麼事？這證明了什麼事？這證明了民進黨心中他們在意的，從來就不是立法院要怎麼建立規矩，從來關心的就是我喜歡怎麼樣就怎麼樣，別人逕付二讀，不希望交付黨團協商，他就說不行，一定要交付黨團協商，而自己逕付二讀，然後希望照案通過，他就什麼？他就照案通過。","我算是很尊重主席的人啦，主席站起來了，我一定會尊重，但大家所有在看的人可以去看看，剛剛程序發言的時候，說兩分鐘也好、三分鐘也好，站在對面講了多久？站在對面講了多久？大家可以去計時啊。基本上面的規矩跟規範，這個國會的運作，我再強調一次啊，不是某一個人愛怎麼幹就怎麼幹，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃委員的發言。為了議事運作順暢，有時候本席在主持會議的時候，會儘量給予多寬容。那現在議事進行非常順暢，就希望各位發言的委員能夠遵守我們發言的規則。","接下來有請我們柯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":532,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-14","speakers":["鍾佳濱","林思銘","吳思瑤","柯建銘","謝衣鳯","羅智強","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","陳俊宇","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","黃國昌","謝龍介"],"page_start":479,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、民進黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬\n具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一條文修正草案」案；三、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「立法院職\n權行使法增訂第二十八條之三及第二十八條之四條文草案」案；四、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19\n人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案；五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「立法院職權行\n使法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00020"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.93971875,"end":19.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.28096875,"end":21.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.92096875,"end":28.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.95471875,"end":29.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.17409375,"end":54.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.75659375,"end":65.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.16409375,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.08346875000001,"end":69.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.21846875,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.33534375,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":79.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.88346875,"end":79.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.32221875,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.33909375,"end":90.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.02534375,"end":90.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.93659375,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.44284375000001,"end":94.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.69971875,"end":98.78346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.10409375,"end":99.64409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.67784375000001,"end":102.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.37784375000001,"end":103.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.99784375,"end":105.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.19159375000001,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.89596875000001,"end":121.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.30721875,"end":122.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.20971875000001,"end":128.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.32721875000001,"end":132.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.78659375,"end":173.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.20221875000001,"end":190.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.53284375,"end":194.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.51096875000002,"end":206.86784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.42471875,"end":214.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.63034375,"end":216.87471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.19534375,"end":226.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.91534375,"end":242.25471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.08159375000002,"end":244.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.58346875,"end":251.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.00846875000002,"end":252.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.98284375000003,"end":256.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.95284375,"end":258.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.65721875,"end":261.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.61034375,"end":269.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.81159375000004,"end":274.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.63784375,"end":282.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.27784375000005,"end":287.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.00284375,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.15471875000003,"end":290.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.53409375,"end":304.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.96221875000003,"end":305.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.72159375,"end":305.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.41346875,"end":308.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.14721875000004,"end":311.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.72471875,"end":313.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.24784375,"end":318.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.34409375,"end":324.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.82409375000003,"end":326.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.52846875,"end":328.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.95846875,"end":333.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.70034375,"end":348.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.93846875,"end":350.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.63846875,"end":360.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.71721875000003,"end":360.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.88596875,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.97034375000004,"end":431.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.21409375,"end":368.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.64721875000004,"end":433.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.97159375,"end":435.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.96284375000005,"end":444.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.72909375,"end":462.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.54096875000005,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.35909375000006,"end":466.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.60346875000005,"end":468.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.90284375000005,"end":495.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.97034375000004,"end":508.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.06534375,"end":515.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.0009687500001,"end":522.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.9028437500001,"end":524.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.1809687500001,"end":529.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.32784375,"end":531.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.3403437500001,"end":532.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.0278437500001,"end":535.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.52534375,"end":536.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.63909375,"end":537.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.6428437500001,"end":540.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.1953437500001,"end":542.7647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.1359687500001,"end":545.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.2534687500001,"end":548.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.73846875,"end":550.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.3372187500001,"end":552.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.66596875,"end":555.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.56846875,"end":558.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.3359687500001,"end":561.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.6984687500001,"end":563.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.90909375,"end":569.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.0303437499999,"end":572.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.3928437500001,"end":573.86534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":17.238,"end":19.499,"text":"麻煩有請立法院秘書長有請莊秘書長"},{"start":30.46,"end":53.374,"text":"秘書長好,延續上一次在針對國會改革法案的時候對您所提出來的詢問我知道您作為立法院的秘書長基本上是一個行政幕僚總管的性質所以在很多法案上您不便表示意見,這個我都理解因此接下來在針對有關於國會改革相關法案關鍵"},{"start":54.895,"end":79.249,"text":"重要的問題您在您方便的程度範圍內表達意見就好不用覺得太勉強過去這段時間不斷的有立委說依據大法官釋字729相關的議案只要有涉及刑事偵查立法院就不可以組成第二小組秘書長你贊成這樣的法律見解嗎"},{"start":80.711,"end":97.551,"text":"是可以成立啦是可以成立啦由於他的規範齁是不違背7號、9號的歧視說得非常的好可不可以成立調閱小組啊跟調閱了以後可以調閱什麼東西啊這是兩個完全不同層次的事情秘書長你贊不贊成"},{"start":99.774,"end":105.6,"text":"贊同贊成嘛7月9他的關鍵是什麼7月9他的關鍵是啊我們的立法院司法法制委員會成立了一個調閱小組以後跑去跟最高檢察署啊要求要調閱什麼要求調閱最高檢察署特他61啊的案件啊祕書長"},{"start":125.233,"end":152.599,"text":"您知不知道為什麼會有大法官釋字729號解釋文當時有一些事情發生當初有一些事情發生嘛你講得非常非常的為外當初就是司法法制委員會成立了調閱小組嘛跟最高檢察署要調閱扣他60億的券嘛所以才被人家提釋憲嘛大法官才宣告違憲嘛他宣告違憲的是什麼"},{"start":153.439,"end":160.587,"text":"你成立這個調閱小組了以後怎麼會去跟人家調閱偵查中的卷證呢是這一件事情被宣告違憲這個才是核心而當初這個監聽調閱小組提案要成立的正是民主進步黨的黨團"},{"start":173.78,"end":186.267,"text":"要去調閱特他61的也正是民主進步黨的黨團要去調閱這一個所以被大法官4至7月9宣告違憲嘛民進黨團一天到晚在跟大家講毀憲亂政、毀憲亂政結果在我們的大法官釋憲史上729號"},{"start":195.54,"end":207.507,"text":"在729號裡面被清楚地記下一筆的正式民主進步黨黨團當初要掉落東西第二個問題我就非常的納悶我就回顧當初監聽調閱專案小組那個時候的議事錄我發現"},{"start":214.69,"end":241.49,"text":"那個時候要退他六十一有個非常重要的關鍵點那個重要的關鍵點是說因為我們的國會的電話是不是有被監聽那為什麼會產生國會的電話是不是有被監聽的問題因為那時候涉及到了我們那個時候立法院的院長王金平跟在野黨最大的黨鞭柯建民是不是有去關說司法的問題"},{"start":243.157,"end":268.617,"text":"叫曾永夫交代高等檢察署的檢察官針對柯建民所涉及的刑事案件不可以提起上訴就是因為這件事情整個風暴才全部都起來但我看完了以後我發現很奇怪那個說2013年監聽調閱專案小組柯建民某個程度上可以說是涉案當事人"},{"start":269.861,"end":281.557,"text":"他為什麼可以參加這個監聽調閱專案小組啊?律師長依照您的高度您對於立法院裡面利益衝突迴避的理解你認為這樣妥當嗎?"},{"start":283.251,"end":311.278,"text":"因為那是由委員會來組成的我不太了解你也不太了解嘛所以按照秘書長您今天表示的意見是說以後我們成立不管是調閱委員會還是調閱小組涉案的當事人自己參與這個調閱小組都不會有什麼問題秘書長您的立場是這樣嗎按照相當規定去處理那你認為應該的相關規定是什麼"},{"start":313.345,"end":334.061,"text":"涉及到有相關性的利害的當然有需要迴避需要迴避嘛OK齁秘書長您可能講到這邊啊我老實講已經是勇氣可嘉勇氣可嘉齁沒有關係第二個爭點過去又有民主進步黨的立委啊說政府惡毒一定"},{"start":334.707,"end":350.167,"text":"要交付黨團協商。」那個時候他們提出這個主張的時候我就百思不得其解到底規範在哪裡結果今天民進黨自己提出來的法案終於承認了這件事情根本沒規範"},{"start":351.83,"end":367.476,"text":"這件事情根本沒規範所以他們希望按照他們覺得他們想要的方式提了這個修正草案嘛秘書長我的理解有沒有錯誤如果容許我講兩分鐘可以是是是我給你兩分鐘"},{"start":369.397,"end":395.08,"text":"因為當時在第四屆第六會期的時候在處理的時候因為是由黨團有給法治局做就是黨團協商是原則是由法治局來主政來寫條文啦那時候我才恰好是後面到台聯那邊去報告一些國會的運作回來以後當然在會的時候我是有加了第十條之一"},{"start":395.76,"end":423.34,"text":"那當時的法治局是認為大概比較沒有爭議的案會進入二度那在實際運作上反而是爭議的話才會進入二度比較多啦那後來這事變成是一個漏洞那漏洞就在公民投票法裡面有一個案例所以這也是不成文的一個立規一個議事例啦並不是在法院有規定所以才會有第八條的第二項"},{"start":424.341,"end":444.462,"text":"跟第三項如果有面臨到這個的時候按照案例就是會交黨團協商是這樣的一個整個一個過程好來那就問題就來了嘛第一個我們剛剛確認了目前立法院職權行使法也好議事規則也好從來沒有一條說進夫二讀要交付黨團協商我的理解正不正確"},{"start":446.752,"end":465.895,"text":"好,那我們接下來再看實際的例子嘛實際的例子在第十屆第一會期第十三次會議的時候民主進步黨黨團自己提案喔進復二讀的提案喔欸他沒有說要交付黨團協商欸他進復二讀的提案是什麼必!造案通過"},{"start":467.642,"end":492.177,"text":"那奇怪囉?民主進步黨怎麼一方面要主張進步二讀一定要交付黨團協商喔?結果自己推的案子符合他們需要方便的時候這個進步二讀不用交黨團協商啊就直接照案通過啊因為我拜讀他們的提案表啊這個是我們民主進步黨黨團總召柯建民簽名的啊上面寫說您請願會進步二讀並什麼?照案通過"},{"start":496.038,"end":521.039,"text":"那就奇怪啦!民進黨不是說進夫二讀一定要交付黨團協商嗎?怎麼會提出這樣子一個違反他們自己心中所認定的規定的提案呢?這證明了什麼事?這證明了民進黨心中他們在意的從來就不是立法院要怎麼建立規矩從來關心的就是我喜歡怎麼樣就怎麼樣"},{"start":522.961,"end":535.745,"text":"別人近乎二讀不希望交付黨團協商他就說不行一定要交付黨團協商而自己近乎二讀然後失望造案通過他就什麼他就造案通過我算啦是很尊重主席的人啦主席站起來了我一定會尊重但大家啊"},{"start":548.829,"end":567.621,"text":"所有在看的人可以去看看剛剛程序發言的時候說兩分鐘也好三分鐘也好站在對面講了多久站在對面講了多久大家可以去計時基本上面的規矩跟規範這個國會的運作我再強調一次不是某一個人愛怎麼幹就怎麼幹謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151410","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151410","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445518b42509afc4e160525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c942d0461bc9268856f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:46:51 - 10:58:52","影片長度":"00:12:01","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":721,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:58:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:46:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":600,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時47分）謝謝主席，我請我們的主計長。"],["主席：有請主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長好。主計長，剛才您說可能在520之後，您不在這個位置上，可能會在其他位置上……"],["朱主計長澤民：是的，我沒有說在其他位置上，我沒有，現在沒有人找我。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，反正沒關係，現在沒有人找你，那就等著有人找你。但是有一件事情我覺得蠻重要的，也在您的報告裡面所顯示，就是您準備在卸任之前，4月底要公布消失了30年以上的財富分配報告是不是？"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：那我想請問一下，1991年，那個時候我們做了財富分配報告，當時其實引起非常非常多的重視。在1991年也就是30年前，我國家庭財富平均每一戶的財富是526萬，前20%跟後20%的差距是16.8倍，所以當時有討論到我們的財富分配，等於前20%跟後20%有16.8倍。時隔30年，我想因為你們這一定做了非常久，請問一下財富分配的倍數有沒有擴張到20倍以上？"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，因為這個我們要經過所謂的國勢普查委員會，要經過委員會的審查，我們才能夠公布，我現在……"],["王委員鴻薇：就是委員會要核定，是不是？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，要他們核定，如果我公布就是違反規定，我先講就是違反規定。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，現在公布的時間是4月底確定了嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我們一定會公布，因為這個是我來主計總處，我就有個使命，希望有一個財富分配報告，所以我請我們的同仁努力要做這一塊……"],["王委員鴻薇：把它做出來？"],["朱主計長澤民：把它做出來，將來作為政策的一個……"],["王委員鴻薇：不過，主計長，因為你是在你卸任之前，就是你的使命把它完成。"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：可是我覺得過去其實我們每30年才公布一次家庭財富分配報告，事實上真的等太久，當然我們也會期待……"],["朱主計長澤民：對，因為有些要突破、有些要突破。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，但是真的30年等太久，我們就等看4月底之前，你們到底公布的數字是什麼？我是很想看一下，經過30年平均每一戶家庭的財富到底是多少？另外來討論一個我覺得也非常嚴重的問題，主計總處其實也注意到，在整個通膨的壓力之下，現在的房租年增率持續飆升。事實上在去年結束的時候，房租年增率已經達到27年來的新高，到今年第一季過去了，以前3個月來講，每一個月的房租年增率都超過了2%，也就是已經連續8個月都破了2%，創下紀錄。主計長，你覺不覺得在通膨壓力之下，現在所有的租屋族其實是壓力最大的一個族群之一？"],["朱主計長澤民：所以我們有300億的租金補貼政策，尤其是讓比較年輕的人，讓他們的租金壓力能夠變小，我們有推行這個政策。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長，為什麼從去年開始，事實上這幾年租屋族的壓力都非常非常的大，你覺得造成租屋一直漲價的主要原因是什麼？"],["朱主計長澤民：因為房屋的建築成本增加，房東持有的……"],["王委員鴻薇：可是有很多都是老房子啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：關於老房子，我可以跟委員報告一下，老房子我們是用售賺的，所以老房子因為新房子的增加，老房子也會增加，因為……"],["王委員鴻薇：老房子為什麼增加？因為通膨的壓力……"],["朱主計長澤民：老房子因為需求……"],["王委員鴻薇：需求也是……"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：通膨的壓力，我看到你們的一個新聞，主計總處說還有升息的壓力。當時在央行要宣布升息的時候，其實很多的房東都會把成本轉嫁給他的房客……"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外有一個非常重要的關鍵因素，其實跟漲電價有很大的關係，你們沒有談到漲電價，漲電價絕對對租屋族是相當大的壓力。第一個，央行為什麼升息？央行會違背國際的潮流去升息，就是因為怕電價推升物價。此外，你如果現在去看各大的租屋網，光是電價的部分，每度電他們全部都已經調高了，在4月調升之前他們就開始調高。所以在這邊，雖然主計長你快要離開主計長的位置，但是現在的電價調整，也就是能源政策的錯誤不僅僅只是造成最近整個的缺電，還有很多的跳電的問題，其實它是來自於通膨的壓力、中央銀行的貨幣政策還有租屋族的壓力，你同不同意？"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，的確有些電費漲價房租會增加，但是有些在計算房租跟電費是兩個獨立的，是獨立的算。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，獨立算，所以他電價就漲了，租屋族也是漲啊！租屋族是被動。因為我的時間也有限，但是我要講的就是，我們現在真的要去正視整個租屋族的壓力，我覺得我們政府好像沒有去正視，除了主計總處，其他好像沒有特別去重視，已經連續8個月都破2%，而且一直不停的上漲，我覺得對租屋族來講是非常大的壓力。","想請問一下主計長，我們今年二備金動用了嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：二備金有些來申請動用，但是目前還沒有支付。"],["王委員鴻薇：現在這次的花蓮震災會不會動用二備金？還是災損金？"],["朱主計長澤民：目前並沒有要動用預備金，在4月3號發生震災的時候，我們主計總處就在當天跟財政部配合，在當天下班之前就撥了3億元供花蓮縣政府周轉。"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長，我想請問一下，由於花蓮縣震災的規模這麼大，包含東華大學和整個太魯閣很多景區的復健，是不是應該編列特別預算？"],["朱主計長澤民：編列特別預算可以討論，如果金額小的話，是不是有必要編列特別預算，可以請大院作為參考。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以是可以編列特別預算？另外請問一下主計長，主計長雖然可能馬上要離開位置，我們現在財委會有很多委員提出預算法的修正，預算法第八十三條第四款，我就提出來第四款直接刪除，但是我想請問主計長，你應該對預算法滾瓜爛熟，比我還要熟悉了。如果第八十三條第四款把它刪除，請問一下像0403花蓮這樣重大的災害可不可以編列特別預算？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是可以利用第三款，那個是可以的。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有錯嘛？利用第三款是可以繼續再對重大災害……"],["朱主計長澤民：可是像我們前些時候的前瞻就是利用第四款。"],["王委員鴻薇：前瞻是利用第四款，可是像過去的一些重大災害是可以利用第三款，完全不會影響重大災害或者是經濟重大災變的就是特別預算的編列，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那個要看他所做的事項是什麼，如果……"],["王委員鴻薇：主計長你最熟預算法，我直接說，因為前一陣子有很多的側翼，針對我們預算法的修正把它污名化說：哎呀！這樣花蓮震災就不能夠編列特別預算。這根本就是胡說八道啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員說明一下，如果是跟震災有關的是可以利用第三款；如果是因為地震要復原的話就要回到第四款。"],["王委員鴻薇：復原的話就可以用公務預算，就不能夠用特別預算了嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我可以認同委員的觀點。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，但是現在0403如果要編列特別預算是可以的嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：0403是不是可以，我認為可以討論，因為我看到貴黨提出來才150億，要分3年，就像委員所講的，是不是可以在普通預算裡面容納。"],["王委員鴻薇：你覺得150億因為它金額很小的意思啦，是不是？"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我要特別提到去年我們打詐全部都用二備金，所以主計長，二備金也要去研究到底花的值不值得。整個二備金花了這麼多錢在打詐，結果詐騙頻創新高，浪費那麼多納稅人的錢做了很多的宣傳，結果呢？不管是案件數或金額數都只有在升高，所以未來各部會……因為我沒有時間，本來還要檢討好幾個部會動用二備金，長年在編列、長年用二備金，其實都是不合理的，對於他們原來自己部門的預算都隨便在亂編嗎？二備金花了那麼多的錢在打詐，結果打詐的成績這麼難看。"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，112年的經費是在111年5、6月份的時候就要確定，那個時候打詐還沒有那麼有急迫性。現在是因為到了112年，打詐有急迫性，所以會要動用二備金，謝謝委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：急迫性也要有有效性啦，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。","接著我們請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.7009687499999995,"end":8.856593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.480968750000002,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.20159375,"end":15.218468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.230968750000002,"end":17.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.21346875,"end":20.820968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.242843750000002,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.098468750000002,"end":27.672218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.85346875,"end":33.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.887218750000002,"end":29.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.32534375,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.071593750000005,"end":44.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.445968750000006,"end":49.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.37346875,"end":55.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.92096875,"end":58.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.025968750000004,"end":59.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.190343750000004,"end":68.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.25659375000001,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.54284375,"end":82.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.00534375000001,"end":94.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.12159375,"end":101.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.41596875,"end":110.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.34284375,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.21034375,"end":122.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.06659375000001,"end":129.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.66909375,"end":129.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.71534375000002,"end":132.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.90471875,"end":136.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.16159375,"end":137.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.69721875000002,"end":138.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.99659375000002,"end":141.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.10159375,"end":149.54346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.30721875,"end":150.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.37034375000002,"end":155.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.92659375000002,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.30971875,"end":160.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.92409375,"end":175.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.72909375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.21846875,"end":190.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.16159375,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.14409375000002,"end":194.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.88659375,"end":196.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.81034375000002,"end":197.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.24471875,"end":210.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.41159375,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.74034375000002,"end":221.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.86971875,"end":222.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.91596875000002,"end":231.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.24784375000002,"end":238.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.30159375000002,"end":251.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.72159375,"end":268.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.20846875,"end":270.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.13221875,"end":278.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.56971875,"end":283.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.60346875,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.78409375,"end":289.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.50909375000003,"end":290.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.07409375000003,"end":306.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.27909375,"end":303.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.40096875,"end":340.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.12221875,"end":311.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.98221875,"end":312.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.46721875000003,"end":314.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.83346875,"end":319.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.75971875000005,"end":332.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.20971875000004,"end":356.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.27909375,"end":374.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.47034375000004,"end":376.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.05221875,"end":396.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.47534375000004,"end":409.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.43096875000003,"end":411.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.20284375,"end":440.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.47659375,"end":416.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.02534375000005,"end":446.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.07596875,"end":441.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.69534375,"end":452.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.50034375,"end":457.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.88346875,"end":463.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.37284375,"end":460.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.94159375000004,"end":477.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.09159375,"end":488.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.81534375,"end":499.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.05409375000005,"end":513.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.80721875,"end":521.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.29971875,"end":538.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.74846875,"end":543.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.1528437500001,"end":548.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.96284375,"end":544.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.71346875,"end":554.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.37471875,"end":568.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.64034375,"end":556.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.37659375,"end":572.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.90346875,"end":578.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.12221875,"end":594.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.4865937500001,"end":594.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.72284375,"end":596.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.91659375,"end":599.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.2240937500001,"end":601.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.0803437500001,"end":607.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.8472187500001,"end":613.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.1965937500001,"end":618.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.6684687500001,"end":618.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.2422187500001,"end":624.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.4015937500001,"end":640.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.7747187500001,"end":644.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.5928437499999,"end":644.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.50409375,"end":664.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.5347187500001,"end":696.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.68596875,"end":716.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.85971875,"end":720.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.83409375,"end":720.44159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.351,"end":6.552,"text":"主席"},{"start":20.256,"end":35.547,"text":"主席長,剛才您說可能在520之後您不在這個位置上,可能會在其他位置上。我沒有說在其他位置上,我沒有,現在沒有人找我。好,反正沒關係,現在沒有人找你。"},{"start":37.128,"end":37.148,"text":"是對。"},{"start":60.25,"end":62.951,"text":"1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告1991年財富分配報告"},{"start":82.961,"end":85.043,"text":"前20%跟後20%的差距是16.8倍所以當時有討論到我們的財富分配等於說前20跟後20有16.8倍時隔30年"},{"start":102.062,"end":128.114,"text":"我想因為你們這一定做了非常久那請問一下這個財富分配的倍數有沒有擴張到20倍以上跟那個委員報告一下因為這個是我們要經過那個所謂的國事普查委員會要經過委員會的審查我們才能夠公布這個委員會要核定是不是對要他們核定到如果我公布就是違反規定我先講就是違反規定"},{"start":129.815,"end":149.941,"text":"你現在公布的時間是4月底確定了嗎?對,我們一定會公布因為這個是在我的時候我再來主計總書我就有個使命叫希望有一個財富分配的報告所以我請我們的同仁努力要做這一塊把它做出來讓這個將來作為政策的"},{"start":154.562,"end":174.616,"text":"主計講因為你是在你卸任之前就是你的使命把它完成可是我覺得過去其實我們每30年才公布一次家庭財富的分配報告事實上真的等太久那當然我們也會期待有些要突破"},{"start":177.309,"end":178.45,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":198.288,"end":221.238,"text":"我們主計處其實也注意到我們在整個的通膨的壓力之下那麼我們現在的房租是持續的年增率是飆升那事實上在去年在去年的結束的時候就是我們的房租的年增率已經達到27年來的新高那麼"},{"start":222.999,"end":251.432,"text":"到今年第一季過去了前三個月每一個月的房租年增率都超過了2%那也就是我們已經連續8個月都破了兩趴也是創下紀錄所以主計長你覺不覺得在我們整個所有的通膨的壓力之下我們現在所有的租屋族其實是壓力最大的一個族群之一"},{"start":252.373,"end":268.43,"text":"所以我們有那個租金的300億的租金的政策就是說讓這個是比較尤其是年輕的人他的租金的壓力能夠變小我們有就是說有推行這個政策。總統你覺得為什麼從"},{"start":271.753,"end":283.449,"text":"去年開始事實上是其實這幾年租屋族的壓力都非常非常的大造成我們租屋的這個一直要漲價的主要原因你覺得是什麼?"},{"start":284.057,"end":305.536,"text":"那個就是因為房屋的建築成本增加黃東的那個可是有很多都是老房子啊那個老房子的話我可以跟那個委員報告一下老房子的話我們是用一種受賺的所以是老房子因為新房子的增加老房子也會增加因為老房子為什麼增加因為通膨的壓力"},{"start":309.759,"end":325.513,"text":"需求需求也是通膨的壓力然後我看到你們一個新聞說主計總處說還有升息的壓力其實當時在央行要宣布升息的時候其實很多的房東"},{"start":326.394,"end":329.097,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2"},{"start":341.311,"end":346.334,"text":"沒有去談到漲電價漲電價絕對對租屋族是相當大的壓力第一個央行為什麼升息央行會違背國際的潮流去升息就是因為怕電價推升物價另外一個你知道你如果現在去看各大的租屋網光是電價的部分每度電他們全部都已經調高了"},{"start":365.146,"end":386.516,"text":"在4月調升之前他就開始調高所以我們在這邊就是我想主席想因為雖然你快要那個離開主席長的位置但是我們現在的電價調整也就是能源政策的一個錯誤他不僅僅只是造成最近比如說你看整個的缺電然後很多的跳電的問題"},{"start":388.117,"end":408.725,"text":"還有其實它所帶來的是來自於我們通膨的壓力中央銀行的貨幣政策還有租屋族的壓力你同不同意跟那個委員報告一下的確有些是說那個電費的漲它的房租會增加但是有些他們在計算的時候房租他們跟那個電費是兩個獨立的是獨立的算"},{"start":412.567,"end":440.529,"text":"對,獨立算,所以它電價就漲啊,那個租屋族也是漲啊,因為租屋族它是被動,因為我的這個時間也有限但是呢,我要講就是說,我們現在真的要去正視我們整個租屋族的壓力我覺得我們政府好像沒有去,除了主計處,其他好像沒有特別去重視已經連續8個月多破2%,而且一直不停的上漲,我覺得對租屋族來講是非常大的壓力"},{"start":441.129,"end":466.443,"text":"那另外那個主席長想請問一下我們今年二倍金動用了嗎二倍金有些來申請動用但是目前還沒有支付那我們現在就是這一次的花蓮震災會不會動用二倍金目前並沒有要動用二倍金它在4月3號發生震災的時候我們就主計總處就在當天有撥啦"},{"start":469.324,"end":473.909,"text":"主計長我想請問一下以花蓮縣政災的規模這麼大因為包含東華大學包含整個太盧閣很多景區的一個復建是不是應該編列特別預算"},{"start":489.111,"end":498.985,"text":"那個編列特別預算可以討論到如果是說金額小的話編列特別預算是不是有必要可以請大院作為一個參考"},{"start":500.103,"end":526.194,"text":"所以是特別列特別預算那另外請問一下主計長主計長雖然可能馬上要那個離開位置因為我們現在呢在財委會有很多委員提出我們那個預算法的修正那麼預算法第83條第4款比如說我就提出來第4款直接刪除但是我想請問主計長你應該對預算法管管爛熟比我還要熟悉了"},{"start":527.136,"end":542.754,"text":"如果83條第4款把它刪除請問一下像0403花蓮這樣重大的災害可不可以編列特別預算那個是可以利用第三款那個是可以的"},{"start":543.194,"end":571.822,"text":"沒有錯嘛他利用第三款是可以繼續再對重大災害有些像那個是我們像前些時候的前瞻就是利用第四款他是利用第四款像前瞻利用第三款可是比如過去的一些重大災害是可以利用第三款所以完全不會影響重大災害或者是經濟重大災變的這些的就是特別預算的編列對不對"},{"start":573.112,"end":599.545,"text":"對那個是要看那個他所做的事項是什麼啦那如果是因為主計長你最熟預算法因為前一陣子呢有很多的一些我直接說一些側翼針對我們對預算法的修正把他汙名化說哎呀這樣呢花蓮正宅就不能夠編列特別預算這個根本就是胡說八道啊那個跟委員說明一下如果是正宅"},{"start":600.485,"end":624.593,"text":"有關的是可以用第三款如果是因為地震要復原的話就要回到第四款復原的話就可以用公務預算就不能不能夠用特別預算了嗎對那個我可以認同委員的觀點但是我們現在0403現在如果要編列特別預算是可以的嗎"},{"start":626.438,"end":639.923,"text":"我是認為說可以討論因為我看到那個貴黨提出來才150億要分3年那就像委員所講的是不是可以在普通預算裡面容納"},{"start":640.816,"end":641.797,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":658.829,"end":687.015,"text":"二倍金花了這麼多錢在打砸結果呢賬片頻創新高啊浪費我們那麼多納稅人的錢做了很多的宣傳啊結果呢我們的不管是案件數或金額數都只有在升高所以未來各部會我又沒有時間比較下面還要剪好幾個部會動用二倍金長年就在編列長年的來用二倍金其實都是不合理的"},{"start":687.595,"end":715.017,"text":"那對他自己原來自己的部門預算他都隨便在亂編嗎二、備金花了那麼多的錢在打詐結果打詐的成績這麼難看我現在跟委員報告一下因為112年的經費是在112年5、6月份的時候就要確定所以在那個時候打詐的那個還沒有那麼說有急迫性現在是因為到了112的時候打詐急迫性所以會要動用二、備金謝謝委員"},{"start":717.932,"end":720.112,"text":"急迫性也要有有效性啦好好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151409","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151409","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445b629a0871af4fb1257f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c949c8886d814b768f25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"10:48:44 - 10:58:59","影片長度":"00:10:15","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":615,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:58:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:48:44+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":416,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時48分）謝謝主席，有請劉次長還有體育署署長。"],["主席：請次長跟署長。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["羅委員廷瑋：次長早。柯志恩召委所提大學法第三十五條還有專科學校法第四十四條的修正草案，修法是立意良善，但教育部已經表態不支持，因為用家庭所得淨額適用稅率12%以內的納稅單位級距為121萬以下，約占總納稅單位的92%，所需增加預算約411.81億元經費，約相當於113年高教預算法定預算的32.27%，為避免大幅度的排擠其他教育預算，所以你們不同意修法。次長，如果不要用家庭所得淨額適用稅率，改用所得五等分的概念來採計，這是從羅倫茲曲線和Gini係數所簡化出來的，學術上和實務上也較為採用。改用所得五等分讓最低的20%所得者免學費，你覺得行不行？如果讓最低的20%所得者免學費，這樣大概要多少經費？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，首先，教育部並沒有反對修法，我們只是說明這需要額外的預算支應，這是必須先說明的一點。第二點，如果以20%來計算的話，可能跟目前我們已經投入的289億不會差距太多，很可能現在既有投入的就已經快涵蓋這20%，這個可能性很高。如果要再擴大的話，其實我們支持更擴大，因為這個立意很重要。老實說，像今年幾所私立大學的第二階段報名大概都在提升，所以這是明顯有好處的。如果可以的話，也許可以進一步做階段性的拉進，然後再看後續怎樣，這也是另外一個考慮的方向。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你可以認同？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們從頭到尾沒有反對這樣的修法方向，這是我們必須先聲明的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：依教育部的推算，我覺得柯志恩委員的版本會有92%的人免學費，但現在我建議只取最低的20%免學費，這樣一來人數、預算大幅下降，又能幫助到真正需要幫助的人，若教育部有困難，可以早點讓我們知道。"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，基本上，教育部在執行上不會有什麼困難，最主要就是額外預算支應，因為不能排擠到現有預算。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然，所以要爭取更多的預算。"],["劉次長孟奇：對，就是爭取更多預算，只要爭取到更多預算，就委員所說的來看，還有另外兩個考量，我們就在此跟委員報告。第一個，老實說，我們有做過0、5、12不同的推估。以5%來算，大概是80%；如果是0的話，大概是40%；另外一個選擇大概是40%，這也是一條線。"],["羅委員廷瑋：次長，我建議讓最低的20%所得者一律免學費，並請教育部提出評估報告，可以嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：可以，我們就提出一份評估報告給委員參考。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這議題我們都很關注，召委也非常用心。接下來我想請教體育署署長，剛剛其他委員講，未來可能會有運動發展部之類的部，所以你這個位置未來有可能是部長，我們也剛剛開了記者會，因為我們非常認同一定要有運動發展部。但是署長，我要很沉重地跟您講一件事情，您答應我的事情沒有做到，這件事我必須點出來，您聽聽看。我上次講過教育部認可的選手67號劉君眉的事，所以署長4月3日在委員會答應我要幫忙募款、找企業贊助，還透過畫面直送全球播放，而且是直播的。做了嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們有一個標案委託其他單位協助，目前正在進行中，這件事我們會加快腳步。"],["羅委員廷瑋：已經九天了！署長，我非常生氣，非常沉痛！我今天早上打電話給劉君眉，問有沒有電話跟他聯絡？他說完全沒有！九天前我很開心地跟他分享這個喜悅，現在九天過去完全無消無息！我要告訴你，速度太慢，慢到你發包完就幾乎可以不用找他了！為什麼？因為劉君眉已經在4月12日上網募款，從4月12日開始算，短短兩天就已經募得18萬，四天後募得了60萬。到現在，已經有258人響應，募得了86萬，我們的教育部在幹嘛？我們的體育署在幹嘛？我真的非常難過。你知道我今天準備的PowerPoint是什麼嗎？原本並不是寫事務官做不好就下臺，同仁幫我寫的是要你下臺！基於我們之間的溝通，基於我覺得你還算有在處理，所以我請他們改掉，這是對於事務官的尊重。今天我去問了劉君眉，得到這樣的一個回答後，對不起，我沒辦法接受他最後只能利用募資平臺來幫自己！我要告訴大家，署長，你講話講得很大聲，但是做不好，真的是貽笑大方！劉君眉選手透過自己的募款行動告訴全體國人，要活著只能靠自己，要活著不能靠國家！對我來說，我沒辦法接受，畢竟日前體育署曾答應過我！今天是我第一次這麼生氣，第一次在這邊這麼大聲跟你講，希望說到要做到，這是男人間的對話，是男人間的承諾，尤其對於體育選手，我們絕對不能讓他們有任何委屈！可不可以再給我一次承諾？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分我會努力加快速度。"],["羅委員廷瑋：就一通電話！先用一通電話安撫選手，讓他們知道政府、我們的國家願意做他的靠山，他不需要這麼心急。今天不是劉君眉打電話來告訴我，是我自己追蹤到的。他不是一個讓我們覺得他會到處求助的人，他願意自立自強，但我看不下去，我們的選手、尤其非亞奧運的選手有多少人等著我們給予關懷跟關注？署長可以再加強嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：沒有問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。次長，我另外想請教，這次東華大學校舍損傷嚴重，您知道嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：盧市長、周杰倫都捐款100萬，但校方預估災損重建的經費高達新臺幣20億元，目前僅募得6,000萬元，校長還出面說明為什麼國立大學需要募款的原因，聽起來我們都可以體諒。本席說明一下，因為從民國88年開始，各國立大學整體經費來源，由原本的教育部全部補助改為定額補助與學校自籌兩種方式辦理，因此，國立大學經費不再由教育部全額補助，各校推動校務所需應另自籌經費。但這次災損經費如此龐大，我們還在用88年的規定？東華大學雖依規定提報災損申請，可是教育部、國科會都說只能部分補助，其餘要透過各界的善心才能度過這個難關。這樣的作法我沒辦法接受！教育部主管各級學校所屬機構災害防救要點第七項─復原重建階段工作要項就有提到，第六個復原經費的籌措及第七個硬體設施的復原重建。在此，本席要請教育部幫忙，東華大學需要政府的支援，如果沒有辦法補助這麼多錢的話，那麼我希望能用先前921的方式辦理。當時教育部有921地震公私立學校修復重建教學建築與設施的專案貸款利息補助作業實施要點，由中央銀行提撥郵政儲金轉存款供行庫辦理學校修復重建教學建築設施。國民黨黨團已於15日送出4月3日大地震災後重建條例，初步匡列150億元，將東華大學、公務設施、民宅重建都整體納入，希望教育部能一起支持，讓整個災後重建得到法律位階的確保，這是我們在做的。請問教育部能不能給我們一個承諾，幫忙協助東華大學？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，我們4月10日已經會勘過，目前的災損扣除國科會儀器以外部分是18.3億；這18.3億我們分成三年，特別是後兩年大概會佈下15億到16億，這部分我們會爭取行政院的專項。目前行政院正在做跨部會協調，因為整體及其他縣市合起來，大概是29到30億，我們會一起來爭取專項經費以協助重建。"],["羅委員廷瑋：以上所提的兩件事情我一定會盯到底，一定會注意到後面的動向！希望不管是次長、還有署長，答應我們的事情都要做到，我們一起來做他們的靠山。"],["劉次長孟奇：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員，謝謝次長。我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時59分）","繼續開會（11時4分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來我們請登記第11號的范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.76846875,"end":8.907218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.26159375,"end":10.915343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.56096875,"end":12.434093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.974093750000002,"end":13.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.969718750000002,"end":79.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.73159375,"end":110.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.76034375,"end":140.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.44784375,"end":146.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.88159375,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.37096875,"end":146.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.91096875,"end":152.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.34034375000002,"end":174.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.83471875,"end":175.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.96971875,"end":216.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.11596875,"end":185.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.16221875000002,"end":186.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.77784375000002,"end":189.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.58096875,"end":207.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.97596875000002,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.00971875000002,"end":218.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.96596875,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.03346875000003,"end":233.74971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.75909375,"end":228.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.20096875000002,"end":261.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.13346875,"end":271.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.97159375,"end":283.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.02471875000003,"end":325.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.76471875000004,"end":338.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.60659375,"end":374.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.04409375,"end":420.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.14659375,"end":421.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.32784375,"end":424.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.57221875000005,"end":425.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.15846875000005,"end":552.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.82221875,"end":569.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.3259687500001,"end":602.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.70471875,"end":614.1459687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.583,"end":12.061,"text":"三、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員柯志恩等 16人擬具:「國民體育"},{"start":13.115,"end":27.922,"text":"委員長好 次長早柯志恩召委所提的《大學法》及第四十五條還有《專科學校法》的第四十四條修正草案修法是利益良善但教育部已經表態不支持因為用家庭所得進額所用稅率12%以內的納稅單位"},{"start":30.703,"end":38.069,"text":"擬具為121萬以下,約佔總納稅單位的92%,所需增加預算約411.81億元經費,約相當於113年的高校預算,法定的一個預算32.27%。那我想因此避免大幅度的排擠其他教育預算,所以你們不同意修法。"},{"start":53.021,"end":78.979,"text":"次長,如果不要用家庭所得淨額適用稅率改用所得五等分的一個概念來採計這是從羅倫茲曲線和後來的GINI的一個係數簡化出來的學術上和事務上都較為採用改用這個所得五等分讓最低的20%所得者免學費你覺得行不行?如果讓最低的20%所得者免學費這樣大概要多少經費?"},{"start":80.05,"end":88.681,"text":"跟委員報告首先第一點教育部沒有反對我們並沒有反對這個修法我們只是說明說這個需要額外預算適應這個必須先說明這一點"},{"start":91.308,"end":110.515,"text":"那第二點就是說如果20%的話很可能跟目前的我們已經有了269億投入的289億可能不會差距太多啦這個大概是很可能我們現在既有投入的就已經快涵蓋了這20%這個可能性很高"},{"start":111.86,"end":130.323,"text":"所以如果要再擴大的話其實我們是支持就能夠更擴大其實我們覺得這個利益很重要因為其實老實說譬如說我想那個像今年我們來拉近這個公私立其實幾個私立大學其實他們的第二階段他那個報道率"},{"start":132.58,"end":152.172,"text":"因該說他報名大概都在提升,所以這個是很明顯有好處的。所以如果可以的話,其實階段性的也許可以再進一步的拉近,然後再看怎樣,這也是另外一個考慮的方向。所以你可以認同這樣子?我們從頭到尾沒有反對這個修法方向,我們必須先聲明。"},{"start":153.39,"end":174.375,"text":"好那依教育部的推算算法齁我覺得柯志恩委員的版本會有92%的比例的人免學費齁那但是現在我建議只取最低的20%的一個比例人免學費人數預算大幅下降又能幫助到真正需求需要幫助的人教育部有什麼困難的話我想可以早點讓我們知道"},{"start":175.899,"end":200.248,"text":"跟委員報告,其實下一步在執行上面基本上不會有什麼困難,最主要就是一個額外預算之一,因為不要去排擠現有預算。當然就是要爭取更多預算。對,爭取更多預算,再爭取到更多預算,我想執行上我們的都...那其實除了委員所說的話,其實還有另外兩個考量,我們就跟委員報告,第一個當然是說因為我們其實有"},{"start":200.808,"end":217.756,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人"},{"start":225.14,"end":233.392,"text":"可以,那我們就來提出一份評估報告給委員參加。我想這個我們都很關注,尤其召委非常用心。那接下來我想請那個體育署署長。"},{"start":235.493,"end":258.479,"text":"署長剛剛其他的委員都在講喔未來有可能會有一個運動發展部類似這樣子的一個部你這個位置未來有可能是做部長的喔那我們剛剛也開了記者會我們也非常的認同一定要有一個運動發展部那我還是要很沉重的跟你講一件事情署長您答應我的事情沒有做到我必須點出來您聽聽看教育部認可的選手我上次已經講過67號劉君梅"},{"start":262.242,"end":275.413,"text":"上次4月3號,署長你在委員會透過畫面直送全球播放而且是直播的。你給我答應要幫忙募款找企業贊助。做了嗎?報告委員目前我們正在應該說有一個標案要委託一個"},{"start":277.755,"end":304.494,"text":"單位來協助這件事情那目前正在進行中不過的確委員這塊我們會加快腳步已經九天了是署長對不起我非常生氣非常的沉痛我今天早上打電話給劉君梅我說有沒有一通電話跟你聯絡他說完全都沒有在九天前我跟他很開心的分享這個喜悅到現在九天了完全無消無息我要告訴你是速度太慢慢到你接下來發包完也幾乎可以不用找他了為什麼"},{"start":305.394,"end":315.706,"text":"劉君美已經在4月12號上網募款從4月12開始算短短兩天就已經募得18萬4天後就募得了60萬到了現在已經258人響應現在已經募得了86萬我們的教育部在幹嘛我們的體育署在幹嘛"},{"start":326.82,"end":338.006,"text":"我真的非常的難過你知道我今天我們準備的跑破音是什麼嗎是要你原本不是寫事務官做不好就下台捏是同仁幫我寫說要你下台捏"},{"start":339.656,"end":365.305,"text":"我基於我們之間的溝通我基於我們之間還覺得你有在處理我請他們要改掉就是對於事務官一個尊重但今天我去詢問了劉君美得到這樣子的一個回答對不起我沒辦法接受他在利用募資平台最後來幫忙自己我要告訴大家署長你講話講得很大聲但是做不好我覺得真的是讓大家一笑大方"},{"start":366.145,"end":393.755,"text":"劉君梅選手透過自己的募款行動告訴全體國人要活著只能靠自己要活著不能靠國家我覺得這樣子對我來說我沒辦法接受目前體育署所答應我的事情我今天第一次這麼生氣第一次在這邊這麼大聲的跟您講我希望我們說到要做到男人之間的話語男人之間的承諾尤其對於體育選手我們絕對不能夠讓他們有任何的委屈可不可以再給我一次承諾"},{"start":394.195,"end":419.351,"text":"好,報告委員這部分我會來努力加快速度我想就一通電話你先安撫選手一通電話讓他們知道政府我們的國家願意做他的靠山他不需要這麼心急今天不是劉君梅打電話來告訴我是我自己追蹤的他不是一個讓我們覺得說他就是到處求助的人他願意自己來自立自強但我看不下去我們的選手非亞奧運的選手有多少人等待著我們給予他的關懷跟關注署長"},{"start":422.349,"end":450.111,"text":"可以再加強嗎?沒有問題。好,謝謝。市長,我另外想跟您請問一下,這次東華大學校舍損傷嚴重。是。您知道嗎?知道。盧市長、周杰倫都捐款捐一百萬,校方預估災損重建的經費高達新台幣二十億元,目前僅募得了六千萬元。校長出來說明為什麼國立大學需要募款的原因。好,聽起來我們都可以體諒。"},{"start":451.092,"end":469.169,"text":"本席說一下但是因為國立大學民國88年開始各國立大學整體經費來源由原本的教育部全部補助改而定額補助學校自籌兩種方式來辦理因此國立大學經費不再是教育部來全額我想"},{"start":469.89,"end":490.262,"text":"各校推動校務所需另應自籌經費,這次的災損經費如此龐大,我們還在用88年的這個規定。東華所以規定提報了災損申請,但是教育部國科會都說只能部分補助及其餘的要需要透過各界善心補助,才能夠渡過這個難關。"},{"start":492.423,"end":507.212,"text":"這樣的一個做法我覺得我沒辦法接受我調出教育部主管各級學校所屬機構災害防救的要點裡面第七項復原重建的階段工作要項就有提到第六個復原經費的籌措"},{"start":510.074,"end":527.239,"text":"以及第七個硬體設施的復原重建本席要請教育部幫幫忙東華大學需要政府的資源如果沒有辦法補助這麼多錢我是希望能夠用先前921的方式當時教育部有一個921地震公私立學校修復重建"},{"start":527.759,"end":551.854,"text":"教學建築與設施的專案貸款利息補助最實施要點由中央銀行提撥郵政儲金的一個轉存款供航庫辦理學校修復重建銷學的一個建築設施重建這個部分目前國民黨黨團15日也送出我們4月3號大地震的災後重建條例初步匡列150億元但是我要講"},{"start":553.476,"end":566.97,"text":"將東華大學公務設施、民宅重建都整體納入希望教育部能夠一起來支持讓整個災後的重建得到法律位階的一個確保這是我們在做的但教育部現在能不能給我們一個承諾來幫忙協助東華大學"},{"start":569.512,"end":591.365,"text":"是,跟委員報告,我們4月10號已經會刊過,那它目前的災損在那個國科會儀器以外是18.3億,這18.3億我們分成三年。然後特別在後兩年的地方,那邊大概會佈下大概是15億到16億,那個會來爭取行政院的這個專項,那目前行政院正在跨部會協調。"},{"start":592.365,"end":613.477,"text":"因為整體還有其他的縣市合起來大概是29到30億那我們會一起來爭取這一個就是專項的經費來協助這個重建以上所提這兩件事情我一定會盯到底我一定會注意到我們後面的動向我希望不管是次長還有署長答應我們的事情都要做到我們一起來做他們的靠山是謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151408","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151408","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4455531d70613c7c5b0cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c942ee760386b7cab395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"10:48:47 - 10:58:19","影片長度":"00:09:32","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":572,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:58:19+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:48:47+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":332,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時48分）謝謝主席，我們請徐委員長。"],["主席：請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：徐委員早安。"],["徐委員巧芯：早安，首先，是不是要跟您說一聲恭喜，在媒體上面有看到許多的報導，提到您在520之後會留任，不曉得你有沒有已經接收到賴準總統這樣子的通知了？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們接受新任閣揆的通知是還沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：還沒有，但是機會應該蠻高，但如果有問您的話，你的態度有改變了嗎？如果有徵詢你的意見的話，那你會改變你的態度，認為可以留在僑委會繼續做這樣的工作嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我想過去這三年多快四年的時間，我跟僑委會同仁，除了很有感情以外，我跟全球的僑胞感情也很深。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以是有這樣子的意願，如果有被徵詢的話嘛！對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：然後各位立法委員也都很支持我們的僑務工作，所以我是很願意繼續來為大家服務。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那也希望你的工作能夠越做越好。但是我們要問一個跟工作有關的事情，520要到了嘛！那4月2號的時候，僑委會的臉書上面有發布了邀請海外僑胞回國參加就職典禮的活動，有圖片和文案的發布，後續也有很多的駐外館還有僑教中心，或者是像我們海外的華人報章轉載，上面寫的是僑委會發布的嘛！官方的網站，寫說「美德請恁來做客」，第16任的總統、副總統就職慶典活動，520、521我們也都很歡迎海外同胞能夠共同的來參與，我想這個心情是一樣的。但是不曉得徐委員長有沒有感覺到，在這個文宣上面少了一個什麼樣的東西，或者是一個還蠻必要的細節？"],["徐委員長佳青：我想大概是國旗吧！在我們僑委會的logo裡面第一個就是國旗了。"],["徐委員巧芯：小到我真的是看不到，我當然知道僑委會的logo裡面有一個國旗，但是那個小到我真是看不太到，我相信很多的僑胞也看不到。其實有一些僑胞他們就有來反應，他們覺得能夠來參加這樣子的盛會的話，是很好的一件事，也很開心我們的僑委會對他們有做這樣的邀請，可是他們覺得我們在中華民國總統、副總統的就職慶典活動，也希望能夠看到中華民國國旗這樣子的象徵，如果有的話，對於邀請他們來，他們一定會覺得感受是更好的。","比方說，像我們總統府的這個圖像上面有一個國旗，但看不出是什麼旗幟，人家如果不瞭解，還以為五星旗，因為這個都太紅了嘛！我們跟人家應該是差別很大的，所以說是不是在設計上面，比方說你們已經有放了一個總統府的元素，上面插了一支旗子的話，那是不是最、最、最起碼，我已經退五萬步來說，至少那一面國旗要是中華民國的國旗，而不是擺一個好像就是我們玩遊戲的時候，紅旗、白旗、黃旗的紅旗，我覺得這個部分是應該要有所修正的，是不太妥適的。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以當然您剛也說明了，有看到很小很小的國旗在那個地方，可是既然這個圖像很明顯的是我們的總統府，那我們的總統府……"],["徐委員長佳青：這個確實是設計不當的地方。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以這個部分是不是能夠做一些調整？因為我們來看一下其他的，過去我們的僑委會就都有做到，不管是在112年、110年，雖然這個也是比較小一些的，然後在109年，所以我們調出了109、110、112年的國慶慶典活動，其實我們僑委會並不是要去避開這些國旗，過去都曾經有這個元素，可是可能今年在整個準備設計上面有疏漏的地方，那我們希望能夠去做一些修正，最起碼已經有總統府的意象了，上面的那個國旗就應該是……"],["徐委員長佳青：我們來把這張圖做一些修正。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那就麻煩我們委員長可以做一些修正，我們希望未來在這些僑胞引頸期待的中華民國的民主盛事，能夠看到中華民國的象徵意義。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：另外，台積電現在到美國、日本設廠，共通性都在於招募了大量的本國籍員工到當地就業，這是很好的事情。先前僑委會表示要評估在鳳凰城設僑教中心，請問委員長，後續進度如何？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員說明，目前在南加州有設兩個僑教中心，一個設在洛杉磯，一個設在橙郡，這兩個基本上都是因為僑胞的人數非常非常多而設置，目前鳳凰城的僑胞人數還沒有到一個高點，但我們不排除未來評估會增加一些，如果要設僑教中心的話，人數要達到某一種人數額度以上，但這部分我們必須要有前置規劃……"],["徐委員巧芯：前置的規劃作業。"],["徐委員長佳青：還有預算評估等等作業，所以可能是好幾年之後的事情，但是我們會思考，因為確實整條產業鏈如果未來真的都進駐，是有這個需要。現在是只有台積電設廠，產業鏈還沒有跟著去，未來5到10年間，如果整個台積電周邊的產業鏈、各種企業一起前進的話，數量上確實會有很多的增加，我們也會在數量的變化中密切地評估，如果要再多增設一個僑教中心，那我們在租場地、派駐員額的時候，要如何來做調整，未來我們在作今年度評估報告時，會把它清楚規劃進去。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為2023年11月，也就是去年11月僑委會有說要做這樣的評估，所以想進一步請問委員長，我們先不講後續還有這麼多事情要做，而是我們的評估報告，應該會先分析未來大概幾年之內要開始考量，人數從現在多少，到未來多少之後，可能要開始啟動，這樣的一個評估報告或說明，今年度會出來嗎？什麼時候會有比較具體的說明？"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，因為之前確實台積電在設廠進度上有一點延遲，所以配合的相關產業鏈好像也有觀望的狀況，這也是為什麼我們在這件事情上也稍微hold住，但如果現在美方對於台積電的各項補助案進度都一直在往前推，那我們也願意在今年的這個時間點裡，可能是下半年，會請我們的同仁就近蒐集更多僑民的人數資料，以及可能會往亞利桑那州投資的企業狀況，先做前期研究，等研究有一個比較初期的報告出來時，我們才比較好做評估，屆時如有報告，我們會提供給委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：除了台積電到美國鳳凰城設廠之外，現在大家也很關心在日本熊本設廠的部分，請問你們有沒有考慮規劃評估設僑教中心呢？"],["徐委員長佳青：僑教中心的設置，到目前為止，全球有16個，它的成本真的非常高，以我們僑委會的預算結構，事實上是非常緊迫的，目前這些都是早期已經採購的，以我們現在的狀況來看，要買、要租都非常非常困難，即便是在日本，我們也只有派兩個僑務秘書分別進駐東京及大阪的駐處，一個在關東，一個在關西，關西的要就近協助九州的部分，而關東的部分則要往上到北海道，所以在這種很緊迫的狀況之下，我們暫時不太有可能特別派一個秘書到九州，但是我相信我們在福岡辦事處的一位外交同仁，一定會多多協助，跟我們在大阪的同仁加強去那邊做移動式服務。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，就這個部分，不管是美國鳳凰城，或者日本熊本，都是因為台積電的設廠，以至於有很多臺灣人都到這些地方去，希望僑委會在提供相關的照顧上能夠做得更好，然後提供他們應該要有的相關協助，如果有一天人數夠多的時候，就應該設立僑教中心，讓他們的小朋友等等的需求可以被滿足，所以希望僑委會後續再持續做評估，並關心這些事情，好嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：好，謝謝。"],["徐委員巧芯：謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：也拜託委員多支持我們的預算。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們都會支持，台積電很辛苦，然後到那邊工作的同仁也很辛苦，我們都會一起支持產業好的發展。"],["徐委員長佳青：是，必要時，我們也會先跟台積電詢問有沒有需要我們提供什麼樣的內容。"],["徐委員巧芯：好的、好的，這很重要，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：好，謝謝徐委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員的發言。","接下來請麥玉珍委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.6003437500000002,"end":2.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.37659375,"end":4.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.45221875,"end":4.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.840343750000001,"end":4.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.87409375,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.0259687500000005,"end":5.042843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.042843750000001,"end":5.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.05971875,"end":5.177843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.177843750000001,"end":5.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.48159375,"end":5.5153437499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":5.835968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.835968750000001,"end":6.0553437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.0553437500000005,"end":7.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.03409375,"end":21.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.687843750000003,"end":8.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.922218750000003,"end":32.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.025968750000004,"end":32.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.05971875,"end":32.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.98784375,"end":33.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.84846875,"end":42.032843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.032843750000005,"end":95.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.22659375,"end":105.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.89221875000001,"end":105.09471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.97221875000001,"end":106.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.03971875,"end":106.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.27596875,"end":106.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.83284375000001,"end":192.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.00096875,"end":194.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.38909375,"end":193.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.53221875,"end":267.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.56471875000003,"end":202.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.86784375000002,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.77846875,"end":238.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.90471875000003,"end":268.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.00159375000004,"end":272.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.88284375,"end":358.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.21159375,"end":275.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.14221875000004,"end":287.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.26971875000004,"end":308.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.51846875,"end":309.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.37909375000004,"end":337.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.54034375000003,"end":358.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.55721875,"end":358.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.57409375000003,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.97034375000004,"end":397.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.97721875,"end":445.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.51221875000005,"end":403.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.30471875,"end":408.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.02471875000003,"end":458.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.21659375,"end":459.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.23346875000004,"end":523.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.24534375,"end":464.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.97909375,"end":467.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.83784375000005,"end":480.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.3584687499999,"end":556.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.14659375,"end":560.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.96909375,"end":566.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.14096875,"end":565.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.90034375,"end":572.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.06846875,"end":570.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.75596875,"end":572.21159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.47,"end":12.796,"text":"我們接受新任葛奎的通知是還沒有但如果有問你的話你的態度有改變了嗎會留下來繼續如果有徵詢你的意見的話那你會改變的態度認為說可以留在僑委會繼續的做這樣的工作嗎"},{"start":20.981,"end":21.261,"text":"五二零要到了嘛"},{"start":49.036,"end":52.799,"text":"4月2日,僑委會臉書上發佈了邀請海外僑胞回國參加就職典禮的活動的圖片和文案的發佈後續也有很多駐外館、僑教中心或是向我們海外的華人報章轉載上面寫的是僑委會發佈的官方網站"},{"start":73.014,"end":95.331,"text":"寫說美德恰琳來做客第16任的總統副總統就職慶典活動那520 521我們也都很歡迎海外同胞能夠共同的來參與我想這個心情是一樣的但是不曉得徐委員長有沒有感覺到在這個文宣上面少了一個什麼樣的一個東西或者是一個蠻必要的細節"},{"start":98.757,"end":117.675,"text":"呃 我 我想大概是國旗吧齁那我們在我們的這個僑委會的logo裡面第一個就是國旗了小到我真的是看不到我當然知道那是僑委會的logo裡面有一個國旗但是那個小到我真是我真是看是看不太到那我相信很多的僑胞也看不到"},{"start":118.135,"end":133.531,"text":"其實是有一些僑胞他們就有來反應他們覺得呢能夠來參加這樣子的一個盛會的話那是很好的一件事也很開心這個我們的僑委會對他們有做這樣的邀請可是呢他覺得我們在中華民國的總統副總統的就職慶典活動"},{"start":136.494,"end":164.665,"text":"也希望能夠看到中華民國的國旗這樣子的象徵如果有的話對於邀請他們來他們一定會覺得感受是更好的比方說像我們這個總統府的這個圖像上面有一個國旗但看不出是什麼旗幟人家如果不了解還以為五星旗這個都太紅了嘛我們這跟人家是應該是差別很大的所以說是不是在設計上面比方說你們已經有放了一個總統府的元素上面插了一隻旗子的話"},{"start":165.385,"end":190.556,"text":"那是不是最最最最最起碼我已經退五萬步來說至少內面國旗要是中華民國的國旗而不是擺一個好像就是說我們玩遊戲的時候紅旗白旗黃旗的紅旗我覺得這個部分是應該要有所修正的是不太妥適的所以當然您剛也說明了有看到很小很小的國旗在那個地方可是我們既然這個圖像很明顯的是我們的總統府那我們的總統府這個確實是設計不當的地方"},{"start":194.818,"end":204.242,"text":"所以這個部分是不是能夠做一些的調整因為我們來看一下其他的過去的時候我們的僑委會就都有做到不管是在112年110年雖然這個也是比較小一些的然後呢在109年"},{"start":209.924,"end":232.254,"text":"所以我們調出了10910112年的國慶的慶典活動其實我們僑委會並不是要去避開這些國旗的過去都曾經有這個元素可是可能今年在整個準備設計上面那有疏漏的地方那我們希望回到上一章我們希望能夠去做一些修正最起碼是已經有總統府的意向了"},{"start":232.974,"end":246.79,"text":"我們來把這張圖做一些修正好 那就麻煩我們委員長可以做一些修正那我們希望說未來我們在這些僑胞引頸期待的中華民國的民主盛世能夠看到中華民國的象徵意義"},{"start":249.112,"end":267.271,"text":"臺積電現在到美國日本來設廠共通性都在於招募了大量的本國及員工到當地去就業這是很好的事情但是先前僑委會說要評估在鳳凰城設僑教中心我想要請問一下後續的進度是如何的"},{"start":269.033,"end":269.373,"text":"徐巧芯委員"},{"start":299.513,"end":299.573,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":318.18,"end":322.421,"text":"整條產業鏈如果未來真的都去進駐現在是只有台積電在設廠產業鏈還沒有跟著去所以確實在未來5到10年間如果整個台積電周邊的產業鏈各種企業一起前進的話數量上確實是會有很多的增加"},{"start":337.626,"end":348.629,"text":"那我們也會在那個數量的變化當中密切的來評估說如果要再多增設一個僑教中心那我們要去租場地要再派駐員額的時候要怎麼樣來做調整那我們未來會來做這個今年度的這個評估報告的時候把它清楚的話畫進去"},{"start":358.592,"end":386.573,"text":"所以因為這是在2023年11月去年11月的時候說有要做這樣的評估所以我想要進一步請問一下我們先不講後續還有這麼多的事情要做那請問我們評估應該會做一個評估的報告來分析說那未來我們大概幾年之內要做考量人數從現在目前是多少那到多少之後可能要開始啟動請問這樣子的一個評估的報告或是說明在今年度會出來嗎在什麼時候會有比較具體的一個說明"},{"start":389.276,"end":394.403,"text":"跟委員報告因為之前確實台積電在設廠進度上有一點點延遲所以配合的這個相關產業鏈好像也會有觀望的狀況"},{"start":403.995,"end":411.622,"text":"這也是為什麼我們在這件事情上也稍微厚助一下但是如果現在美方對於台積電的補助案各項的進度都一直在往前推的時候我們也會願意在今年的這個時間點裡面可能是下半年我們會請我們的同仁呢就近收集更多的這個僑民的人數資料以及可能的"},{"start":430.558,"end":434.82,"text":"請問除了我們在臺積電到美國鳳凰城設廠之外現在大家也很關心的是到日本的熊本那在日本熊本的部分的設廠我們有沒有考慮規劃評估設僑教中心"},{"start":459.789,"end":463.571,"text":"跟委員報告僑教中心的設置到目前為止全球16個它的成本真的非常高那以我們僑委會的預算結構事實上是非常的緊迫那這個都是早期已經有採購了那以我們現在的狀況要買要租都非常非常困難"},{"start":480.38,"end":488.087,"text":"即便是我們在日本我們也只有派兩個僑務秘書分別進駐東京以及大阪的住處那一個在關東一個在關西關西的就要就近協助九州的部分那關東的部分呢要往上去到北海道所以我們是在這種很緊迫的狀況之下暫時不太有可能說特別派一個秘書去到九州"},{"start":507.304,"end":519.82,"text":"但是我相信我們在福岡的辦事處他們會有一位外交同仁一定會多協助跟我們同仁在大阪的部分加強去那邊做移動式的服務這樣子"},{"start":523.404,"end":541.232,"text":"好那所以說在這個部分希望不管是在美國鳳凰城或者在熊本那都是因為台積電的設廠那以致於我們有很多的台灣人都到這些地方去那我們就希望說僑委會在提供相關的照顧上面能夠做得更好然後提供他們應該要有的這個相關協助"},{"start":542.432,"end":542.532,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":572.498,"end":572.766,"text":"徐巧芯"}]}},{"id":"151407","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151407","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445f4a7f3f5a9920f5304d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c943d75864859a57f935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"10:41:36 - 10:55:15","影片長度":"00:13:39","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":819,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:55:15+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:41:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":756,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時41分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，您辛苦了。部長一直是被公認最難坐穩的位置，部長你已經創下了歷史紀錄，也就是在整個體系當中，經濟首長的紀錄當中，你是小英政府任職最久的經濟部長，部長認為你在任內最滿意的政策是什麼？你有沒有覺得有什麼遺珠之憾還沒做到的？"],["王部長美花：我擔任的期間很長，我非常珍惜跟同仁一起努力打拼，然後讓臺灣的經濟、讓臺灣的各項發展都往正面地走，我有非常多不是只有單一滿意的等等，但是委員也非常清楚，經濟部還有非常多優先的業務要去推動，所以不敢講說哪一個沒有做，因為還要持續精進的事情非常多。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還要做的還很多。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那有沒有你認為、你覺得你最有榮耀的是什麼事？你推動的。"],["王部長美花：我想我最榮耀其實是跟同仁的共事，大家形成一個非常好的team，然後用非常快速的時間，不管是來解決問題……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你所說的說明是跟同仁的互動，在你整個業務的推廣方面、政策，你認為哪一項是你覺得最成功、最有榮耀的？"],["王部長美花：就是因為有這樣跟同仁的合作，包括克服了百年大旱，包括雖然我們電力有出了一些問題，但是因為有這樣的問題、有這樣的挑戰，我們其實是做了更好的安排，不管是在各式各樣的電力供給跟韌性的部分，包括臺灣的整個經濟發展，讓全世界看到臺灣的重要性，臺灣也在成長……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你提出了抗百年大旱，這個的確是一個很大的挑戰，所以一開頭我說這是最難坐穩的位置，你能夠坐了這四年多也不簡單，所以本席要請問，對於預計新接任的準經濟部長，你的看法呢？"],["王部長美花：我們非常非常感佩企業界願意來做相關內閣的閣員，對國家的經濟大政方針繼續再往前走，畢竟從業界來有他的高度跟他的視野。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要不要給他什麼建議？"],["王部長美花：建議的部分，我想大家對臺灣的整個經濟發展都很有期待。再者就是經濟的業務又非常地繁雜，所以這一些的繁雜事情，我們也會儘量去做好交接的工作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你還是在敘述情緒的話語，所以本席跟你分享，因為據聞他是最懂半導體產業的部長，如果他接了，應該是如此。但是本席希望你告訴他，我國的中小企業，本席一直一直一直跟你討論這一項，我國的中小企業將近有160萬家，占所有企業99%，勞動人口占了920萬人，所以在這樣的情況之下，它也占了我們就業人口即將8成，所以中小企業一直是臺灣的磐石，它也為了臺灣創造了四小龍光榮的一個龍頭，同時它也是奠定我們臺灣民生安定最重要的骨幹，同時它也充滿了活力、彈性，它也靈活地創新，你同意這樣的論點嗎？"],["王部長美花：我完全同意。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以它也製造了很多我們的隱形冠軍，在全世界發揚光大，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，所以你要不要告訴他，不只半導體，我們的中小企業要好好地照顧，對不對？"],["王部長美花：一定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要告訴他喔！"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這個學姐要告訴他。"],["王部長美花：一定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來我也請台電總經理一起上來，限電危機，接著桃園的萬戶停電，電力的政策要不要檢討？請問部長。"],["王部長美花：委員也知道……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要檢討？"],["王部長美花：最近這樣的情形確實是因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要敘述內容，大家都知道，很辛苦。"],["王部長美花：確實是因為地震造成的部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要檢討？"],["王部長美花：相關我們電力的供應等等，我們一定都會審慎來因應。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要好好檢討。OK，接下來我要說，16號本席辦公室中午的時間向台電索取資料，說15號的狀態到底是怎麼回事，從中午的時間到當天晚上10點半才獲得回復，這樣子的效率可以嗎？要不要檢討？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。我想台電的同仁因為15號、16號都在緊急處理相關的電力問題，時間如果……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，不要再情緒性地發言，我們針對問題。"],["王部長美花：沒有，時間如果有慢了一點……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大家要一起努力，台電的總經理在這裡，這也是我最敬佩的領導、領袖，我要告訴你，15號發生事情，16號中午我們請問，到16號晚上10點半才獲得回應，為什麼會如此？來，接下來，本席要請教，台電你是否在15號有備妥限電、停電的計畫？因為你只告訴我們，部長你聽喔！他告訴我們說他在會議中沒討論，所以等於是沒有正面的回復，會議中沒討論。接下來本席要請問，沒關係，你不回答也沒關係，16號不回答也沒關係，本席說要在這邊提問，而真正的答案，總經理，到底15號你們有沒有備妥、有沒有通知、有沒有討論到要限電跟停電的報告？因為據媒體所說，你們已經通知台電各區處喔！通知要輪停準備，有沒有這回事？請說明。"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，我們通常在每一天的提前12小時或24小時會預估接下來的備轉容量率，那麼到了中午的時候，到了15號中午的時候，我們的備轉容量率還是超過6%以上，以這麼大的備轉容量率，其實我們不可能在那個時候要限電……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你們是會議中，你15號整天的會議沒有討論嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：沒有討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們要釐清楚，沒有討論？"],["王總經理耀庭：都沒有討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那事情更嚴重……"],["王總經理耀庭：我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：已經這麼嚴重了，你們還沒討論？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，真正發生有兩部大的事故機組是在下午的5點51分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！"],["王總經理耀庭：那已經是後面在那個時候發生110萬的機組跳脫，然後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：總經理你是專業，所以我請你上來，15日晚上出現的台電四部機跳機，這是15日，全臺備轉容量首度降到3%以下，嚇到！我在臺中，我很緊張我們的中火要怎麼樣支應？好，接下來16號就發生了桃園的這樣的現象，所以距離我們供電穩定是不是應該還有很大的空間？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們這樣看，在4月15號中午的時候至少還有6%，差不多9%，為什麼？因為我們跳了6%……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席已經在跟你講到15號晚上如何了啦！"],["王總經理耀庭：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要再去逃脫那些問題。來，接下來，15日台電就已經啟動了需量競價，緊急機組的緊急調度機制，包括你請求台積電用電大戶的發電，也啟動了核二、核三廠，以及臺中氣渦輪柴油發電都發電了，還有水力發電，來度過這一次的難關，是不是如此？"],["王總經理耀庭：那些機組……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是不是如此？"],["王總經理耀庭：有那些事實……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有那些事實嘛！"],["王總經理耀庭：但是那些都是我備轉容量的一部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，對，你要給社會大眾知道，當你發生問題的時候，你有什麼辦法嘛！不用怕，你要清楚告訴民眾，不然人家問你沒講嘛，對不對？你不講我們都不會知道，所以這一些剛剛本席所說的，都是你在籌電的項目嘛，都已經執行了，對不對？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對嘛！你既然有努力做，為什麼不讓社會大眾瞭解知道你們的辛苦呢？接續本席要請教，這一次要用電大戶來支援發電的狀況，你這一次的成本又花了多少？"],["王總經理耀庭：有的大概8塊錢，有的比較貴的是10塊錢1度電。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有12塊的嗎？因為你們還有一個彈性兩成啊！"],["王總經理耀庭：彈性兩成那個就12塊。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有？"],["王總經理耀庭：那是臨時調它起來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有？"],["王總經理耀庭：有，有，有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這一次有用到12塊嘛，對不對？"],["王總經理耀庭：對，這都有簽約的，就跟它簽約，它願意……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你不用怕，我們要瞭解事實，所以你有用到12塊的，對不對？"],["王總經理耀庭：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你告訴部長，光這一次你的成本還要花多少？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們還沒有算，我們等算出來再來回報。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，本席第一個就提問，我們有討論的空間，台電很辛苦，全力支持台電，但是你們要怎麼樣供電穩定必須要去檢討。你不告訴我們方法，我們要看你的答案，這一次你度過難關買到12塊，又花了多少成本？真的，這一次因為地震120萬瓩的機組沒有修復，大潭8號機還有明潭4、5、6號機陸續的跳電，影響到185萬瓩的供電，你只要少了任何剛剛本席所說的，你就瀕臨限電的警戒線，對不對？王總經理。"],["王總經理耀庭：現在是因為那些機組很快就修復回來，就是很特殊同時發生這麼多部，都是因為地震之後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：告訴你本席憂心，夏季要到了，夏季的用電高峰來臨，緊急調度的機制常常要登場，會經常要登場，你要未雨綢繆，怎麼辦？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，我們的機組都是在利用非夏天的時候做維修，所以這些機組在6月之前會陸續歸隊……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：把你認為要穩定供電的方案，請提供詳細書面資料給本席，好不好？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席也再次強調，我們需要瞭解內容才能夠告訴民眾，讓民眾安心，好不好？"],["王總經理耀庭：好，是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：王總經理請回。我最後一個議題，部長，推廣貿易基金的設立宗旨，是以提升我們對外出口競爭力跟國際貿易的地位為願景，但是我臺中很重要的台灣工具機暨零組件工業同業公會，號稱TMBA，也是你們非常關心的。我們公布了工具機112年9月份的出口，比前期少了11.4%，出口的機種跟出口的市場，我有跟你分清楚，機種少了12.9%；市場少了13.3%。所以在113年當中，你的貿易推廣工作計畫裡頭，智慧機械海外推廣的經費一樣是1億。我每一次都給你全力的支持，但是你推廣不利，你告訴我怎麼樣協助我們產業好不好？我們全力的支持預算，你一樣照這樣編，可是出口的市場一直在下降，機種出口率也下降，怎麼辦？你怎麼樣協助我們產業？沒錢就不要說，但有錢你還沒辦法推動，這怎麼辦？請做說明。"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，事實上我們非常關心工具機的出口，所以在今年度……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼辦？"],["王部長美花：也有相關的經費，讓他們去新的市場，還有讓他們異業結合一起去推廣，這個都有跟相關的工具機公會有密切的討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你這麼回答還有一點神經、有觸動，請你告訴我，你每一年固定編列一樣的數字，成效怎麼樣？112年是成效不彰，我告訴你，市場下降了13.3%；機種下降了12.9%，告訴我未來怎麼推動，請提供詳細書面資料給本席好嗎？"],["王部長美花：可以，我們再給委員。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來我們請謝衣鳯委員，因為我們沒有休息，所以如果行政部門有需要上廁所請自行離開，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.40221875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.6003437500000002,"end":2.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.84909375,"end":3.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.966593750000001,"end":9.329093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.10534375,"end":10.544093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.230968750000002,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.870968750000003,"end":35.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.89034375,"end":43.922843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.580968750000004,"end":44.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.59784375,"end":45.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.829718750000005,"end":79.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.03971875,"end":86.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.25471875000001,"end":80.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.17346875000001,"end":98.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.48409375,"end":111.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.80409375,"end":102.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.03471875000001,"end":139.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.95034375,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.94971875000002,"end":142.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.48221875000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.17159375,"end":180.66096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.43284375000002,"end":197.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.23659375000003,"end":199.18971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.20659375000002,"end":201.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.26096875000002,"end":206.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.19284375,"end":207.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.16721875000002,"end":208.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.90971875000002,"end":211.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.82909375000003,"end":214.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.79909375000003,"end":219.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.87846875000002,"end":234.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.16721875000002,"end":238.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.20034375,"end":245.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.01784375000003,"end":250.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.04659375000003,"end":254.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.62409375000001,"end":274.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.43346875000003,"end":260.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.52409375,"end":275.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.43534375,"end":280.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.15221875000003,"end":278.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.36721875,"end":278.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.40471875000003,"end":288.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.47096875,"end":290.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.32721875000004,"end":307.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.27221875000004,"end":293.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.51221875000005,"end":296.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.63846875,"end":298.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.10659375,"end":300.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.74346875000003,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.99659375000005,"end":301.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.94096875,"end":307.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.07159375000003,"end":307.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.69596875,"end":307.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.76346875,"end":324.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.92534375,"end":327.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.23721875,"end":327.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.94596875,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.96284375000005,"end":329.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.92034375000003,"end":339.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.81784375,"end":343.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.92721875,"end":339.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.97721875,"end":351.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.44846875,"end":354.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.41846875000005,"end":356.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.53221875,"end":360.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.71721875000003,"end":363.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.44659375000003,"end":365.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.57284375,"end":368.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.85096875000005,"end":369.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.35284375000003,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.39471875000004,"end":375.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.95096875,"end":381.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.92471875,"end":390.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.87284375,"end":407.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.73096875000005,"end":407.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.76471875000004,"end":407.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.91659375,"end":407.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.93346875000003,"end":407.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.96721875000003,"end":418.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.36221875,"end":430.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.14534375000005,"end":436.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.78596875000005,"end":434.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.91659375,"end":434.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.10221875,"end":436.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.46909375,"end":437.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.34659375,"end":437.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.75159375000004,"end":437.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.97096875000005,"end":456.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.96846875000006,"end":456.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.92159375000006,"end":462.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.30034375,"end":468.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.15596875000006,"end":469.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.33721875000003,"end":477.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.45409375,"end":482.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.48284375000003,"end":483.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.49971875000006,"end":486.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.49909375000004,"end":487.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.25846875,"end":493.16909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.73471875,"end":494.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.43909375000004,"end":494.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.04221875,"end":495.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.17721875,"end":498.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.46784375000004,"end":518.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.35909375,"end":520.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.1984687500001,"end":522.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.51034375,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.96596875,"end":523.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.99971875,"end":524.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.8603437500001,"end":526.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.68721875,"end":526.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.1259687500001,"end":526.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.32846875,"end":532.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.74159375,"end":530.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.4709687500001,"end":553.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.9697187500001,"end":554.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.2734687500001,"end":561.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.3059687500001,"end":565.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.56284375,"end":568.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.2922187500001,"end":574.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.16909375,"end":575.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.83971875,"end":578.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.0672187499999,"end":583.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.11784375,"end":578.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.9990937499999,"end":582.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.31534375,"end":585.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.9184687500001,"end":587.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.80846875,"end":592.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.9509687500001,"end":593.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.32221875,"end":596.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.8490937500001,"end":598.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.9878437500001,"end":603.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.66659375,"end":604.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.39221875,"end":606.1303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.53534375,"end":610.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.73284375,"end":612.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.99846875,"end":616.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.3815937500001,"end":621.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.2122187500001,"end":627.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.6965937500001,"end":628.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.5234687500001,"end":637.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.31534375,"end":638.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.9184687500001,"end":640.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.97721875,"end":643.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.64346875,"end":649.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.8703437500001,"end":650.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.96721875,"end":651.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.52409375,"end":651.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.92909375,"end":651.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.94596875,"end":659.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.10096875,"end":661.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.51409375,"end":662.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.33659375,"end":668.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.51284375,"end":670.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.06534375,"end":672.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.3984687500001,"end":672.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.1072187500001,"end":682.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.5828437499999,"end":686.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.9953437500001,"end":687.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.0290937500001,"end":687.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.06284375,"end":687.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.09659375,"end":688.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.04971875,"end":696.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.8759687500001,"end":694.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.94346875,"end":694.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.96846875,"end":699.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.88784375,"end":700.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.3728437500001,"end":707.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.2959687500002,"end":717.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.99471875,"end":725.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.44909375,"end":731.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.39346875,"end":734.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.86971875,"end":736.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.4897187500001,"end":741.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.8728437500001,"end":743.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.4253437500001,"end":746.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.27284375,"end":750.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.1709687500002,"end":752.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.47034375,"end":754.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.00159375,"end":759.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.77721875,"end":764.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.3503437500001,"end":768.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.77159375,"end":771.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.3872187500001,"end":772.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.5347187500001,"end":772.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.5515937499999,"end":773.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.56846875,"end":782.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.45346875,"end":780.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.5078437500001,"end":792.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":792.0928437500002,"end":795.4678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.80534375,"end":797.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":797.8134687500001,"end":800.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.4965937500001,"end":814.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.23284375,"end":816.89909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.251,"end":23.102,"text":"請楊瓊瓔稍為質詢。謝謝主席。本席想邀請部長。部長好。部長您辛苦了。部長的一職是被公認最難坐穩的位置。"},{"start":25.069,"end":43.786,"text":"部長你已經創下了歷史紀錄也就是在整個體系當中經濟首長的紀錄你是小英政府任職最久的經濟部長部長你認為你在任內你最滿意的政策是什麼你有沒有覺得有什麼遺珠之憾還沒做到的"},{"start":44.979,"end":51.46,"text":"我想我擔任這個期間很長那我非常珍惜跟同仁一起努力打拼然後讓臺灣的經濟讓臺灣的各項的發展都往正面的走那我有非常多不是只有單一買一的等等但是很多經濟部委員也非常清楚經濟部的業務持續都有還有非常多優先的業務要去推動所以"},{"start":74.224,"end":74.364,"text":"你推動的?"},{"start":87.754,"end":110.234,"text":"我想我最有榮耀其實是跟同仁的共識大家形成一個非常好的team然後用非常快速的時間不管是來解決問題你所說的說明是跟同學的跟同仁的互動那在你整個業務的推廣方面政策你認為有哪一項是你覺得最覺得是最成功最有榮耀的"},{"start":111.375,"end":123.577,"text":"就是因為有這樣的跟同仁的合作那包括克服了百年大旱那包括雖然我們電力有出了一些問題但是因為有這樣的問題有這樣的挑戰我們其實是做了更好的一個安排不管是在各式各樣的電力的供給跟韌性的部分那包括臺灣的整個經濟的發展讓全世界看到臺灣這個重要性"},{"start":138.501,"end":162.614,"text":"你提出了抗百年大旱這個的確是一個很大的挑戰所以一開頭我說這是最難坐穩的位置那你能夠做了這4年多也不簡單所以本席要請問你對於預計新接任的準經濟部長你的看法呢?"},{"start":163.71,"end":170.952,"text":"我們非常非常感佩企業界願意來做相關內閣的隔遠對國家的經濟大政方針繼續再往前走畢竟從業界來有他的高度跟他的視野你要不要給他什麼的建議建議的部分我想大家對台灣的整個經濟的發展都有很有期待"},{"start":188.817,"end":190.779,"text":"你還在敘述情緒的話語所以本席跟你分享因為據聞他是最懂半導體這個產業的部長"},{"start":208.42,"end":234.511,"text":"據聞如果他接了應該是如此但是本席希望你告訴他我國的中小企業本席一直一直一直跟你討論這一項我國的中小企業將近有160萬家占所有企業99%人口勞動人口占了920萬人所以在這樣的情況之下他也占了我們就業人口即將八成"},{"start":235.251,"end":240.078,"text":"所以中藻企業一直是臺灣的磐石他也為了臺灣呢創造了四小龍的一個光榮的一個龍頭同時他也是定定的我們臺灣民生安定最重要的骨幹"},{"start":251.135,"end":280.017,"text":"同時他也充滿了活力彈性他也靈活的創新你同意這樣的論點嗎我完全同意完全同意所以他也製造了很多我們的隱形冠軍在全世界發揚光大對不對是的是所以你要不要告訴他不只半導體我們的中小企業要好好的照顧對不對一定要告訴他喔你這個學姊要告訴他接下來我也請台電總經理一起上來"},{"start":281.818,"end":287.621,"text":"限電為期接著桃園的萬戶停電電力的偵測要不要檢討請問部長我"},{"start":291.4,"end":292.381,"text":"16號本席辦公室中午的時間向台電要索取資料"},{"start":315.664,"end":328.511,"text":"說15號的狀態到底是怎麼回事當天晚上從中午的時間到當天晚上10點半才獲得回顧這樣子的效率可以嗎要不要檢討"},{"start":330.526,"end":340.033,"text":"謝謝委員我想臺電的同仁因為15號16號都在緊急處理相關的這個電力的問題部長不要再情緒性的發言我們針對問題大家一起要努力臺電的總經理在這裡這也是我最敬佩的這個領袖那我要告訴你"},{"start":353.201,"end":375.532,"text":"15號發生事情16號中午我們請問到16號的晚上10點半才獲得回應為什麼會如此來接下來本席要請教那麼台電你是否在15號有備妥限電停電的計畫因為你只告訴我們喔部長你聽喔他告訴我們說他在會議中沒討論所以等於是沒有正面的回覆會議中沒討論接下來本席要請問"},{"start":382.984,"end":397.19,"text":"沒關係你不回答也沒關係16號不回答也沒關係本席說要在這邊提問真正的答案到底15號總經理你們有沒有被託有沒有通知有沒有討論到要限電跟停電的這個報告因為據媒體所說你們已經通知台電向各區處喔通知要輪停準備"},{"start":408.015,"end":430.886,"text":"有沒有這回事 請說明好 跟委員報告我們通常在每一天的期前12小時或24小時會預估接下來的備轉容量率那麼到了中午的時候到了15號中午的時候我們的備轉容量率還是超過6%以上那以這麼大的備轉容量率其實我們不可能在那個時候就是說所以你們在會議中你15號整天的會議沒有討論嗎沒有討論我們要理清楚沒有討論都沒有討論"},{"start":437.429,"end":438.669,"text":"15日晚上出現的台電四部機跳機"},{"start":463.377,"end":486.573,"text":"全台備轉容量首度降到3%以下 嚇到我在台中我很緊張我們的中國要怎麼樣支應好接下來16號就發生了桃園的這樣的現象所以距離我們供電穩定是不是應該有很大的空間其實我們這樣看在4月15號的中午的時候"},{"start":488.377,"end":497.84,"text":"至少還有6% 差不多9% 為什麼?因為反習已經在跟你講到15號晚上如何了啦不要再去逃脫那些問題來接下來我們15日你台電就已經啟動了蓄電競價緊急機組的臭緊急調度"},{"start":507.482,"end":518.758,"text":"機制包括你請求台電、台積電、用電大幕的發電也啟動了河河河山廠以及我台中渦輪柴油發電都發電了水力發電來河來渡過這一次的難關"},{"start":523.544,"end":533.332,"text":"是不是如此那些基礎是不是如此有那些事實有那些事實嘛那些都是我備轉容量的一部分對你要給社會當中知道當你發生問題的時候你有什麼辦法嘛就不用怕嘛你要告訴民眾清楚啊不能人家問你不講嘛對不對你不講我們都會知道所以這一些剛剛本席所說的都是你在籌電的這個項目嘛都已經執行嘛"},{"start":553.647,"end":558.492,"text":"這一次要用電大戶來支援發電的狀況,那你這一次的成本又要花了多少?有的大概8塊錢,有的是比較貴的是10塊錢。有12塊嗎?"},{"start":575.882,"end":598.443,"text":"因為你們還有一個彈性兩層那個就12塊有沒有那是臨時調他起來有沒有有有有這一次有用到12塊嘛對不對對這都有簽約的就會跟他簽約你不用怕我們要了解事實所以你有用到12塊的嘛對不對是的所以這一次光光這一次你告訴部長這一次你的成本還要花多少"},{"start":600.411,"end":616.288,"text":"我們還沒有算我們這個等算出來再來回報部長所以本席第一個就是提問我們有討論的空間台電很辛苦全力支持台電但是你們要怎麼樣供電穩定你們必須要去檢討你不告訴我們方法我們要給你看答案"},{"start":622.267,"end":648.266,"text":"就這一次你度過難關你買到12塊你要花了多少成本真的這一次因為地震120萬千瓦的機組沒有修復大潭8號機明台456號機陸續的跳電你影響到185萬千瓦的供電你只要少了任何剛剛本席所說的你就瀕臨限電"},{"start":650.107,"end":668.176,"text":"這警戒線嘛 對不對王總經理現在是因為那些基礎很快就修復回來就是很特殊從此發生這麼多步都是因為地震之後告訴你本期憂心夏季要到了夏季的用電高峰來臨緊急調度的機制常常要登場會經常要登場你要未雨綢繆怎麼辦"},{"start":673.543,"end":688.154,"text":"跟委員報告我們的機組都是在利用非夏天的時候做維修所以這些機組在6月之前會陸續規定把你認為要穩定供電的方案請詳細書面資料給本席好不好是本席也再次強調"},{"start":690.097,"end":717.124,"text":"我們需要了解內容才能夠告訴民眾讓民眾安心好不好我最後一個議題推廣諾易基金的設立部長王總監會我們提升對外出口競爭力跟國際貿易的地位我願意但是我台中很重要的臺灣區工具機零組件工業同業工會也就是我們號稱你們也非常關心的TMBA"},{"start":718.064,"end":732.435,"text":"我們公布了我們的工具機112年9月份的出口是比前期我們少了11.4%那你出口的機種跟出口的市場我有跟你分清楚機種你少了12.9%市場少了13.3%所以在113年當中你的貿易推廣工作計畫裡頭一樣智慧這個機械海外推廣的經費一樣是1億"},{"start":747.347,"end":765.657,"text":"我每一次都給你全力的支持但是你推廣不力你告訴我怎麼樣協助我們產業好不好我們全力的支持預算你一樣照這樣編可是你市場一直在下降你的機種出口率也下降那怎麼辦你怎麼樣協助我們產業沒錢不要說有錢你又沒辦法給我們推動這怎麼辦啊"},{"start":772.641,"end":773.482,"text":"市長你這個回答還有有一點神經有觸動我請你告訴我"},{"start":797.862,"end":809.207,"text":"你每一年固定編列一樣的數字你的成效怎麼樣112年是成效不彰我告訴你市場下降了13%機種下降了12.9%你告訴我你未來怎麼推動請詳細書面資料給本市好嗎可以可以好我們再給委員"}]}},{"id":"151406","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151406","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44592659e727b6d7dbecc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94327cb1eca87a0d4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:35:58 - 10:48:44","影片長度":"00:12:46","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":766,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:48:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:35:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（10時35分）你好，請委員長。"],["主席：有請委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：陳委員，早安。"],["陳委員冠廷：委員長早。委員長，我想請教一下，我們現在講的僑務工作，僑民現在是用華僑還是臺僑作為區分？"],["徐委員長佳青：事實上，我們服務的僑民包括有從中華民國臺灣領過護照的人，我們稱為臺僑，還有早期就已經移民到海外，可能一百多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人，這些人我們就稱他是華僑，所以在我們服務的僑民裡面當然有包含不同的成分。但是我們有不同的親疏遠近，以我們目前的預算結構和規模來說，核心是以臺僑團體作為優先，以及臺僑的子女二代、三代親人跟周邊友好的社團，這些傳統僑社都是我們的核心範圍，然後才逐漸往外擴大，雖然號稱有5,000萬的僑胞，但事實上，我們的服務是有不同的親疏遠近。"],["陳委員冠廷：這些老僑、老華僑有些是來自廣東，有些是來自中國的不同省分。"],["徐委員長佳青：福建。"],["陳委員冠廷：他們認同的對象有的是中華民國，有的是中華民國臺灣，有的是臺灣，所以對這些所謂的僑民，剛剛說你們的服務是有所分別、有所不同的，但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針？"],["徐委員長佳青：其實不同的僑團也會有不一樣的需求，我們所有海外的僑團有一個核心的概念，這些僑團都是登記在當地國的政府組織、NGO，我們作為一個外國的單位，我們是去輔導，並不能干涉他們的自主性組織，在這個核心概念裡面，事實上，我們是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務，希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候，我們有一點輔助或者派我們的僑務工作人員、秘書去參與，或者是提供他們一些資訊資料，比方我們的僑教就提供我們的教材，或者是他們的老師希望能夠培訓，我們就給他們做線上培訓或實質培訓，在傳統僑社我們也有做，在我們的臺僑社團裡面也都有做。以密集度來講，當然是臺僑社團的密集度高很多，跟我們長期都在密集聯繫，所以確實有其差異性。因為傳統僑社已經移民很久了，所以可能到了第六代，第七代，他們也已經是在地，所以其實他認同的國家如果在美國就是美國，他的認同國家如果是加拿大就是加拿大，但是他的文化上面來源會有一些不同的組成，所以我們是在這種文化層次上面，大家去做一些合作。"],["陳委員冠廷：委員長，我講這些問題其實不是要區別對待，而是在於把各個不同的來源是什麼、來由是什麼，因為其實用「僑」這個字，我還要特別再去查僑委會的定義等等。我為什麼講這些，在美國的第二代、第三代、第四代，甚至在那幾代之後，對於中華人民共和國的認同，其實是隨著時間不斷地在下降，特別是在美國的話，對這個認同會有一些疑惑，甚至有些是困擾，剛好因為中國在近幾年來戰狼的一些作法。"],["徐委員長佳青：跟委員報告，臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的。"],["陳委員冠廷：我沒有再問這個問題。我認為對於這一些人是可以開拓的，不管他們的第一代、第二代可能是來自中國，可能是來自中國反對共產黨的人到美國去，或是第一代對中國有浪漫的幻想，後來沒有的，或是因為他們的第二代、第三代受過美國的教育之後，對於中國文化、中華文化是有興趣的，但不代表認同他們的體制，這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象，所以我覺得先把定義定義好。但是定義完之後，對資源分配有優先次序，我覺得這是很好的，其實服務不是區別對待，而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的作法，不同作法對臺灣當然會有更好的幫助。","我之前有跟僑委會索資，我們看到榮譽職人數和平均年齡的統計，對此，我們認為這些都是社會中堅人士，當然對我們的僑務會有所幫助，可是我看到僑務委員的平均年齡大概都是65歲、66歲以上；至於僑務顧問和僑務促進委員，僑務促進委員有稍微年輕一點，我主張針對青年的部分，特別是年輕的朋友，也可以類似像這樣設立一個榮譽職。因為我們要經營的其實是年輕世代，年輕世代才能夠去開拓新局，才可以去開拓我們的可能性，特別是這些用社群平臺能夠影響的對象會更多。","以前去參與美國一些僑會的節慶慶典，我們發現某種程度他們講的話，我們也聽不太懂，因為有些是講廣東話。"],["徐委員長佳青：當地語言。"],["陳委員冠廷：他們的文化跟我們有一些世代隔閡，包含他們的年齡也跟我們有世代隔閡，那時候我還在求學階段，我們希望接觸的對象其實是第二代、第三代的臺僑，或者是第二代、第三代某種程度是認同我們的文化或自由民主，華僑也可以，可是這種機會其實相對的比較少。所以如果這樣的僑務榮譽職能夠再增設，其實榮譽職也沒有所謂的預算問題，增設青年的部分，來去協助這樣的一些活動建置的話，包含體育活動、包含文化活動，特別是我們臺灣其他不同的，包含原住民族或者各個不同的縣市，它有獨特文化的東西，來去加強我們的認同，我想對於我們的僑民都是會有幫助的。其實也是雙向的，除了服務僑民之外，特別是這幾年臺灣的國際地位不斷地在增高，有些僑民其實對臺灣也是會有一些想法，所以我認為這些部分是可以一起努力的。"],["徐委員長佳青：確實。"],["陳委員冠廷：委員長，我現在談一下，最近新加坡的研究所有做民調，我們來看一下這個圖表，委員長，你看完這個圖表有什麼看法？就是針對越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同，這個部分你怎麼看？特別在東南亞。"],["徐委員長佳青：這個是針對馬來西亞華裔人口的統計。"],["陳委員冠廷：可以先看左邊，再看右邊。"],["徐委員長佳青：左邊就是馬來西亞僑民的部分嘛？"],["陳委員冠廷：不是僑民，我們先看左邊，先看各個國家對中國或者是對美國的認同，包含僑民，就是他們整體國民的民調，你先看一下左邊，你有什麼看法？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，因為我……"],["陳委員冠廷：沒有關係，這沒有正確答案，無所謂。"],["徐委員長佳青：因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼，所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做……"],["陳委員冠廷：沒關係，基本上就是說在東南亞國家對……"],["徐委員長佳青：東協國家，這都是東協國家。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，這些國家對於中國的認同，其實比較起美國的話，它是有在增高的趨勢，所以我認為僑務工作當然對我們來講是越來越……","因為自由民主國家是比較親美或者是比較親歐等等，但是同時中國在這些東南亞的國家，它的影響力是日漸增高，日漸增高來講的話，也就是說華僑或者是臺僑對中國認同的可能性也是慢慢地增高。我想請教一下委員長，針對這一些可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看，你有什麼樣的作法？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，其實看到這個統計資料我不意外，我覺得倒還滿吻合，因為它是問東協的這些國家，分別對中國跟美國的一些看法。可以看得出來加入美國聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯，這裡面跟它的國家歷史的發展、民主體制的成熟度，其實都有一定的關聯。中國當然在這十多年來，一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力，這樣的趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的，尤其馬來西亞是最明顯的。我可以這樣說，2000年以前，中華民國在馬來西亞相對的華裔人口裡面認同度是高的；可是這20年來，中國是用大量的金錢砸到馬來西亞去，所以這當中也發生一些趨勢上的變化，現在隨著經濟局勢的轉變，我們也希望能夠再扭轉回來。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝委員長，我最後強調一下，根據2022年的統計年報，馬來西亞的華人有688萬人，在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人，資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下，因為畢竟中國的規模跟臺灣的規模是不同的，所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入，然後全力的推展來跟中國對抗，我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的。但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面哪一些會更認同臺灣，透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些校友會也好，我記得馬來西亞在臺灣有59個校友會，所以你可以運用這樣的基礎、這樣的資料來去開拓可能性，他們可能不見得是臺灣的第二代、第三代，他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份，移民到馬來西亞……"],["徐委員長佳青：是，很多從潮州……"],["陳委員冠廷：對，有可能嘛！可是他們可能對臺灣是有認同的，因為已經太多代了，他們不見得會認同這個……"],["徐委員長佳青：留臺的大部分僑生對臺灣認同度都很高。"],["陳委員冠廷：對啊！可是……"],["徐委員長佳青：可是他們的家人或者沒有來留臺的這些同儕就不見得是這樣，所以我們確實是要強化。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以說他們可能不是那8萬人，他們可能是剩下的那六百多萬人，沒有歸屬在那8萬人，但是他們有這些留臺的經驗，或者是他們的這些同儕都有的話，這些是可以考慮去推廣的部分。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，我的時間已經到了，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝陳委員，我們會強化在榮譽職年輕化的部分，謝謝。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["主席（馬委員文君）：謝謝陳委員的發言。","接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.18284375000000003,"end":1.4653437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.2078437500000003,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.77221875,"end":9.531593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.004093750000003,"end":10.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.657843750000001,"end":17.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.93534375,"end":21.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":27.351593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.094093750000003,"end":84.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.89534375000001,"end":95.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.61971875,"end":95.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.08784375,"end":95.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.42534375000001,"end":115.01721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.55721875,"end":183.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.17096875000001,"end":209.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.58034375000003,"end":235.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.82534375,"end":251.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.01721875,"end":253.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.05909375000002,"end":321.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.85534375000003,"end":287.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.23471875,"end":289.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.84221875000003,"end":290.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.95534375,"end":338.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.40846875,"end":422.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.98471875,"end":377.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.43284375,"end":399.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.94784375,"end":431.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.26721875000004,"end":458.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.40659375,"end":459.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.79034375000003,"end":471.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.00784375,"end":472.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.93596875000003,"end":473.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.13409375000003,"end":481.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.97659375,"end":487.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.72721875,"end":488.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.97159375,"end":502.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.53034375000004,"end":504.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.93096875000003,"end":508.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.67721875,"end":517.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.76034375,"end":521.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.97909375,"end":523.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.5990937500001,"end":543.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.25409375,"end":543.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.3047187500001,"end":562.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.3215937500001,"end":543.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.24471875,"end":549.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.35221875,"end":564.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.7865937500001,"end":567.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.26721875,"end":593.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.74409375,"end":629.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.43034375,"end":699.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.80096875,"end":689.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.5265937500001,"end":690.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.43784375,"end":692.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.00284375,"end":693.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.4834687500002,"end":695.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.60534375,"end":710.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.2165937500001,"end":703.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.6128437500001,"end":704.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.6628437500001,"end":709.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.8272187500002,"end":724.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.54721875,"end":719.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.0278437500001,"end":722.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.1203437500001,"end":730.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.21721875,"end":725.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.7734687500001,"end":731.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.39346875,"end":738.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.17596875,"end":749.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.6303437500001,"end":766.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.94909375,"end":766.96596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.129,"end":3.012,"text":"你好我們請委員長有請委員長陳委員長安委員長早委員長想請教一下齁這個我們現在講的僑務工作僑民的部分我們現在是用華僑還是用台僑作為區分事實上我們服務的僑民呢包括有從"},{"start":28.137,"end":42.638,"text":"中華民國臺灣領過護照的人我們就稱為臺僑還有早期就已經移民到海外可能100多年前或者70年前就已經移民出去的人那這些人我們就稱他是華僑"},{"start":44.14,"end":47.081,"text":"所以在我們服務的僑名裡面當然有包含這個不同的成分但是我們有這個不同的親疏遠近以我們目前的這個預算結構跟規模來說我們是以核心先台僑團體作為優先以及台僑的這個子女二代三代親人跟周邊友好的這個社團這些傳統僑社這都是我們先核心的"},{"start":72.665,"end":72.705,"text":"﹚陳冠廷"},{"start":84.926,"end":102.047,"text":"那這些老僑、老華僑那有些是來自廣東有些是來自這個其他的福建啊對那他們對認同的對象那是有中華民國那有的是中華民國台灣"},{"start":102.748,"end":114.498,"text":"有的是臺灣所以這樣子對這些僑民所謂的僑民你們的服務剛剛說是有所分別有所不同的但是有沒有一個主要的指引方針"},{"start":115.872,"end":128.04,"text":"其實不同的僑團他也會有不一樣的需求那我們所有海外的僑團我們有一個核心的概念就是說這些僑團他都是登記在當地國的政府組織NGO那我們作為一個外國的這個單位呢我們是去輔導我們不能干涉他們的自主性的組織"},{"start":137.967,"end":145.293,"text":"所以在這個核心概念裡面我們事實上是配合他們如果有些跟我有相關的這些事務希望我們能夠來協助輔導的時候我們有一點補助啦或者派我們的僑務工作人員秘書去參與啦"},{"start":156.041,"end":156.181,"text":"陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷"},{"start":184.229,"end":209.682,"text":"密集聯繫所以這個確實是有它的差異性那因為傳統僑社他們是已經移民很久了所以可能到了第6代第7代他們也已經是在地所以他其實認同的國家如果在美國就是美國他的認同國家如果是加拿大那就加拿大但是他的文化上面來源他會有一些不同的組成所以我們是在這種文化層次上面大家去做一些合作"},{"start":210.612,"end":235.348,"text":"委員長我講這些問題其實不是說要做區別對待而是在說把這個各個不同的它的來源是什麼來由是什麼因為其實用僑這個字本身其實我還要特別再去再去查我們僑委會的定義等等那我為什麼講這些是其實在美國那你說第三代第二代第四代甚至在那幾代之後"},{"start":235.888,"end":237.831,"text":"跟委員報告臺僑幾乎沒有認同中華人民共和國的這些做法"},{"start":254.832,"end":277.078,"text":"我沒有再問這個問題所以說我們對於這些人我是覺得是可以開拓的就是說不管他們的第一代第二代可能是來自中國可能是來自中國的這個反對共產黨的人然後到美國去或者是其實是可能是第一代是對中國是有浪漫的幻想然後後來沒有的"},{"start":277.278,"end":305.133,"text":"或是因為他們的第二代第三代其實受過美國的教育之後他們其實對於中國的文化中華的文化是有興趣的但不代表認同他們的體制那這一些就是我們可以開拓的對象所以我覺得先把定義定義好但是定義完之後我們把資源分配資源分配裡面然後優先次序我覺得這是很好的就是說其實服務是不是區別對待而是針對我們的目標對象有不同的做法"},{"start":305.493,"end":305.593,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":322.248,"end":336.388,"text":"對此我們當然是認為這些都是社會中間的人士那當然對於我們的僑務會有所幫助可是我是在看包含僑務委員那平均年齡大概都是65歲66歲以上"},{"start":339.768,"end":367.16,"text":"僑務顧問跟僑務促進委員僑務促進委員會稍微年齡一點我是主張針對青年的部分特別是年輕的朋友的話也可以類似這樣我是一個榮譽職因為我們要經營的是其實是年輕世代年輕世代才能夠去開拓他們的興趣才可以去開拓我們的這個可能性那特別是這些用社群平台他能夠影響的對象會更多所以其實以前去參與包含美國的一些僑會"},{"start":368.3,"end":368.76,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":398.34,"end":398.58,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":423.968,"end":449.172,"text":"確實﹖"},{"start":449.512,"end":471.099,"text":"委員長我現在談一下我們這個最近有新加坡的這個研究所他有做的民調那我們來看一下這個圖表那委員長你看完這個圖表你有什麼看法就是這些針對這個越來越多國家的民眾傾向對中國的認同這個部分你怎麼看"},{"start":473.066,"end":473.686,"text":"這個馬來西亞這個是針對馬來西亞的這個華裔人口的統計"},{"start":483.27,"end":501.975,"text":"我可以先看左邊再看右邊先看左邊好了左邊就是這個是馬來西亞僑民的部分嗎不是僑民我們先我們先看左邊先看整個各個國家那對這個中國或者是對美國的認同這個部分是包含僑民就是直接是他們整個整體國民的民調你先看一下左邊你有什麼看法"},{"start":504.952,"end":520.428,"text":"委員因為我這沒有關係這沒有正確答案這無所謂因為我不知道這個研究的基礎是什麼所以我很難在這樣簡單的資料裡面做好沒關係就是那基本上就是說在東南亞國家東協國家"},{"start":523.33,"end":545.451,"text":"這些國家對於中國的認同其實是比較起美國的話他是有在增高的趨勢所以我認為我們的這個僑務工作那當然是一個對我們來講是一個越來越因為我們比較針對自由民主國家是比較比較想比較親美或者是比較親歐等等但是同時這個中國在這些東南亞的這些國家"},{"start":547.253,"end":566.961,"text":"他的影響力是日漸增高那這些日漸增高來講的話就是說在於華僑或者是台僑他的對中國的認同的可能性也是慢慢的增高我想請教一下委員長針對這些對於可以接受中文為背景的僑民這樣子的資料來看你有什麼樣的做法"},{"start":567.781,"end":573.326,"text":"委員我其實看到這個統計資料不意外我覺得這還蠻吻合因為他是問東協的這些國家分別對中國跟美國的一些看法那可以看得出來這個加入美國的聯盟跟加入中國聯盟的這些國家的差異性是越來越明顯那這裡面跟他的國家歷史的發展民主體制的這個成熟度其實都有一定的關聯"},{"start":594.244,"end":596.506,"text":"中國當然在這10多年來一直用一帶一路企圖在東協國家發揮影響力這樣的一個趨勢也是我們長期一直在關注的尤其是馬來西亞是最明顯的我可以這樣說2000年以前中華民國在馬來西亞"},{"start":612.841,"end":612.981,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":630.738,"end":649.766,"text":"謝謝委員長我最後強調一下根據2022年的統計年報馬來西亞的華人有688萬人那在僑委會實際納屬的僑胞是不到8萬人那資源怎麼樣運用其實我們也要思考一下因為畢竟規模中國的規模跟台灣的規模是不同的"},{"start":650.253,"end":663.813,"text":"所以如果我說我要請僑委會把688萬的這些僑民全部都納入然後全力的推展來跟中國來對抗我覺得這樣的資源配置也不見得是對的但是我們可以思考的是這688萬人裡面"},{"start":666.296,"end":695.318,"text":"哪一些會更認同台灣的透過在當地的僑社或者是透過這些過去曾經校友會也好馬來西亞在台灣有59個校友會所以你可以利用這樣的基礎這樣的資料來去開拓可能性那他們可能不見得是台灣的第二代第三代他們可能是來自中國東南部各省份移民到馬來西亞的很多從潮州啦有可能嘛可是他們可能對台灣是有認同的"},{"start":695.478,"end":709.383,"text":"因為已經太多代了,他們不見得會認同這個1940年留台的大部分僑生對台灣認同度都很高可是他們的家人或者他們沒有來留台的這些同儕就不見得是這樣,所以我們確實是要強化"},{"start":711.624,"end":712.104,"text":"許曉欣委員上台質詢"},{"start":746.386,"end":749.39,"text":"徐委員長徐委員早安早安首先想要跟您看是不是要說一聲恭喜在媒體上面有看到許多的報導提到您在520之後會留任不曉得您有沒有已經"}]}},{"id":"151405","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151405","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44526cb7c676de319d857f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c9405479c7cef35606c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:40:09 - 10:48:39","影片長度":"00:08:30","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":510,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:48:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:40:09+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":369,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時40分）謝謝主席，有請次長跟高教司長。"],["主席：請次長跟高教司長。"],["陳委員培瑜：高教司有來嗎？"],["主席：有，高教司有來。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：早安喔！今天談到大學法跟國體法的修正，我們來看一下高教目前遇到很多個案的狀況，可是我覺得這些個案的狀況，其實反映了整個通案政策執行的問題。","第一個，上個禮拜我跟范雲委員陪同臺北大學同學在教育部前面開記者會，我想你們應該都非常清楚到底發生了什麼事情。我們持續往下追蹤，竟然發現了這兩天學生出來開記者會說，學校的副校長以代繳學生會費的方法，要找學生出來參選學校代表，請問兩位有注意到這個事情嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們有注意到這個新聞，我們會去釐清，看看實際的情況到底是怎樣。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以你們已經積極的跟學校溝通了嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們還是先把這個實際的情況予以釐清，如果學校真的這樣做的話，的確是很不當……"],["陳委員培瑜：請問多久可以給我們回復？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們這兩天就把情況釐清，再來跟委員報告。"],["陳委員培瑜：一個禮拜內，可以嗎？"],["劉次長孟奇：可以。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝。","接下來我們來看一下，學生在表達很多意見上，甚至因為學校設施不足的問題，跟學校發生討論，之前臺體大的事情，我跟楊瓊瓔委員積極協助舞蹈系的學生，後續當然非常感謝教育部跟高教司快速的出面，斡旋了這個事情，讓事情得以平息，可是我們收到另外一個覺得非常震撼，而且覺得不可思議的消息，當學生有舞蹈系成果畢業展的時候，竟然校內出了一個命令說，請高層主管都不要出席舞蹈系的演出，到最後只有一個技擊系的系主任去了其中一場，我們問了學生，也問了學校裡面的一些同仁，確實有這個消息，請問您怎麼看？這算不算是一種對學生的秋後算帳？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，這件事我們現在還沒有瞭解，不過我們會趕快瞭解一下，如果真的有這樣，也是很不當的作為。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們希望一週內你們可以儘速去理解，然後跟我們辦公室再討論。"],["劉次長孟奇：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是就這個事情，我相信教育部你們後來真的有針對這個舞蹈系空間的事情，決定給他們3,000萬，去整理相關的設施，我們要了這個公文，在整個改善計畫裡面，其實你們自己應該有發現，裡面完全沒有看到舞蹈系的需求被表現在這個預算裡面，我們後來有跟你們討論，你們說現在已經讓他們退回修正，一週內他們要交修正報告，對嗎？好，這個部分也請教育部持續追蹤，好，謝謝。","所以剛剛根據我講的這些事情，不管是臺北大學或是臺體大的部分，還有就是捍衛學生表意權這件事情，我相信教育部都要更積極的有一些進度。除了我們剛剛說一週內對相關事情、個案的瞭解之外，也希望在一個月內，教育部針對這些相關事情有相關的調查跟檢討報告。"],["劉次長孟奇：好，沒有問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝。兩位請回。","接下來請體育署長，署長好。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：之前一直在跟署長談到性侵、兒虐、毒品、假球、霸凌、不當對待零容忍的問題，我相信署長一定非常有印象。去年12月我揭露了體育署的補助賽事中，你們有違反兒少法、對孩子施以虐待的教練，繼續以顧問的名義在賽事中出現，當時你們說這是零容忍，我提醒了你們，你們也說會去查，我們就繼續等，可是這個會期，我發現同一個教練，他以顧問的名義繼續出現在同一個協會的另外一個賽事裡面，當時您的回應說，因為他不是拿體育署的補助款，可是我們有說必須要廣泛地看待零容忍這件事情，我們就繼續等待，可是在上個禮拜4月13號，他又出現在相關的賽事、賽後技術會議中，同一個人，署長，你怎麼看？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分我回去會要求協會將他排除在外。"],["陳委員培瑜：直接說排除在外，確定？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們希望一週內可以得到相關的回應。"],["鄭署長世忠：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：非常謝謝署長有這麼積極的態度。","接下來看一下，這個是體育署補助中華足協的企業聯賽，上禮拜本來有一場記者會，是發生什麼事情呢？因為中華足協居然讓性侵案判刑確定的球員，繼續出現在登錄名單上，可是後來可能消息走漏，球隊跟足協就宣稱這是誤會，可是這是體育署一年補助兩、三千萬的聯賽，然後其實這個選手早在2022年的12月臺南地方法院就一審判決罪名成立，可是一直到2023年的6月，在體育署補助的聯賽當中還出現這個選手，一樣地，零容忍這件事情，署長你怎麼看？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分我們已經要求台鋼將這名球員移出在球隊以外。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長。我想相關零容忍，我相信署長你一定也認同，自己身為孩子的父親跟自己身為大學教授，所以後續我們會再跟體育署持續保持討論關於零容忍相關的政策，也希望體育署可以在一個月內提供相關調查跟檢討報告，可以嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：沒有問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長。","接下來這個可能是我們大人的疏失，但是造成孩子的犧牲喔！這位選手是在2023年參加亞洲短道競速滑冰錦標賽，當時這是正式的國際賽事，他還拿到了青年男子B組500M的金牌，很棒！對不對？但是回到臺灣，他還寫了信到署長信箱，當時你們署長信箱的回答是，給獎的項目是Junior A /15歲到18歲，而這個選手當時的組別是 Junior B /15歲到16歲，因為不是Junior A，所以不能給，看起來好像我是在講奇怪的事情嗎？","再往下看，我們有回過來查這個相關資料，為什麼這個孩子跟家長要去爭取呢？因為這個賽事是在2022年，它把青少年組用年齡細分為Junior A跟B，而這個A、B不是等級，它只是分組名稱；回到當時國光獎章給獎辦法，那個時候還沒有拆分，所以其實是把15歲到18歲都放在同一個敘獎的範圍，所以也才會出現明明16歲的這個孩子，他是符合原來設定的年紀規範，可是因為大會的分組名稱修正，體育署不願意給獎。可是我們回過來看給獎的這件事情，本來單項協會在選手資格送到全國體總審查小組的時候，第一關形式審查時這個小孩被刷掉了。再來，這個案子根本就沒有被全國體總送到國光獎金的初審會議上，也就不會進入體育署的複審會議，所以對於審查結果不服這個事情，選手跟家長都沒有辦法進行訴願救濟，也就沒有辦法進行審查，可是協會其實本來應該要為選手做更積極的爭取，不是嗎？","其實這個孩子絕對不會是個案喔！之前2013年WBC棒協也是沒有把這個比賽納入國光獎章的敘獎賽事，當時體育署的態度是說從寬處理。再來，這個孩子的個案目前是無涉獎金，他只有獎章，其實是一個非常重要的鼓勵性質，但這中間發生了一連串剛剛講的事情，難道我們政府不能給孩子多一點的鼓勵嗎？我剛剛說這無涉獎金，他只有獎章，政府真的不能給這個孩子或是相關的選手覺得有更積極的感覺，就是臺灣的政府有為他們做非常重要的後盾？請署長說明一下。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分因為牽涉到比較細部的部分，我想我回去會重啟調查，然後來看看是不是有機會給這位孩子能夠有一個他應有的榮譽。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝署長，這是我第一個要求，希望由體育署召開、重啟相關的調查，不管是體總或是滑冰協會，還有這個青年層級的部分，如果無關獎金，只是獎章鼓勵，我相信署長你也認同，還有什麼樣的辦法跟審查機制，可以鼓勵更多的青年選手，在不同的單項運動裡面有傑出的表現。還有，目前單項協會行政量能不足，我相信署長你一定非常清楚，還有承辦單位可能過於僵化，有沒有相關賽事漏報可能的救濟或進行相關辦法的修訂，這個部分也拜託體育署積極進行討論。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝署長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員，時間掌控得很好。我們接下來請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.277843750000002,"end":20.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.88909375,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.024093750000002,"end":17.395343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.00284375,"end":18.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.64409375,"end":18.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.20096875,"end":19.977218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.399093750000002,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.563468750000002,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.96846875,"end":22.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.508468750000002,"end":56.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.24159375,"end":61.523468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.99659375,"end":58.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.48971875,"end":64.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.79721875,"end":72.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.80034375000001,"end":73.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.89284375000001,"end":80.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.88346875,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.09846875000001,"end":82.14471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.40221875,"end":113.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.78534375000001,"end":122.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.04534375,"end":126.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.60221875,"end":127.23471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.94346875000001,"end":135.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.50346875,"end":185.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.59596875,"end":138.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.06096875,"end":186.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.36471875,"end":187.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.89596875,"end":192.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.38034375,"end":242.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.34221875,"end":195.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.91284375,"end":246.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.60409375,"end":249.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.39284375000003,"end":249.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.64596875,"end":275.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.93721875,"end":294.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.15784375000004,"end":299.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.00096875,"end":316.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.85909375,"end":317.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.33159375,"end":429.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.20846875,"end":434.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.13596875,"end":444.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.61971875,"end":462.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.03034375000004,"end":474.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.93159375000005,"end":474.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.53909375,"end":504.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.96471875000003,"end":505.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.06596875,"end":508.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.26409375000003,"end":506.82096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":9.16,"text":"委員然後我們在羅廷偉委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘然後我們在張雅琳委員質詢完畢之後就處理我們的臨時提案謝謝好謝謝主席那有請次長跟高教司長謝謝請次長跟高教司長高教司有來嗎好謝謝高教司有來是好"},{"start":22.576,"end":42.881,"text":"好,早安。今天在談到這個大學法跟國體法的修正,我們來看一下高教我們目前遇到的很多個案的狀況,可是我覺得個案的狀況其實反映了整個通案的這個政策執行的問題。來,第一個就是上個禮拜我跟范雲委員陪台北大學同學在教育部前面開記者會,我想你們應該都非常清楚到底發生了什麼事情。"},{"start":43.741,"end":64.033,"text":"我們持續在往下追蹤竟然發現這兩天學生出來開記者會說學校的副校長以代繳學生匯費的方法要找學生出來參選學校代表請問兩位有注意到這個事情嗎?我們有注意到這個新聞那我們現在移民看看實際的情況到底是怎樣所以你們已經積極的跟學校溝通了嗎?"},{"start":65.465,"end":80.765,"text":"我們還是先把這個實際的情況先把它釐清不過如果學校真的這樣做的話那是 的確是很不方便 那請問多久可以給我們回覆我們這個兩天是不是可以這兩天就把情況釐清來跟委員報告一個禮拜內可以嗎"},{"start":83.327,"end":106.313,"text":"接下來我們來看一下學生在表達很多意見甚至因為學校設施不足的問題跟學校發生討論之前台體大的事情我跟楊瓊瑛委員積極協助舞蹈系的學生那後續呢當然非常感謝教育部跟高教師快速的出面斡旋了這個事情事情得以平息可是我們收到另外一個覺得非常震撼覺得不可思議的消息當學生的舞蹈系成果畢業展的時候"},{"start":106.493,"end":118.502,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正"},{"start":128.247,"end":143.012,"text":"這件事我們現在還沒有了解不過我們趕快去了解一下如果真的有這樣也是很不當的作物好 那我們希望一週內你們可以盡速去理解然後跟我們辦公室再討論喔但是教育部的這個事情我相信教育部你們後來因為這個"},{"start":143.592,"end":145.314,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案案案件 條文規範案件 條文規範案件 條文規範案件"},{"start":166.656,"end":184.964,"text":"好 謝謝那所以剛剛根據我講的這些事情不管是台北大學或是台體大的部分還有就是捍衛學生的表議權這件事情我相信教育部都要更積極的有一些進度那除了我們剛剛說一週內相關事情個案的了解之外也希望在一個月內教育部針對這個相關事情有相關調查跟檢討報告好 沒有問題好 謝謝好 下一個兩位請回 謝謝那接下來請體育署長 謝謝"},{"start":194.394,"end":211.85,"text":"好,署長好。之前一直在跟署長談到性侵、兒虐、毒品、假球、霸凌、不當對待、零容忍的問題。我相信署長一定非常有印象。那去年12月我揭露了體育署的補助賽事中,你們有違反兒少法對孩子施以虐待的教練,繼續以顧問的名義在賽事中出現。"},{"start":213.111,"end":241.69,"text":"當時你們說這是林榮仁那我提醒了你們也說會去查那我們就繼續等可是呢這個會期我發現同一個教練他以顧問的名義繼續出現在同一個協會的另外一個賽事裡面當時您的回應說因為他不是拿體育署的補助款可是我們說必須要廣泛的去看林榮仁這件事情那我們也繼續等待可是在上個禮拜4月13號他又出現在相關的賽事賽後技術會議中同一個人署長你怎麼看"},{"start":242.95,"end":246.522,"text":"報告委員這部分我回去會要求協會將它排除在外。"},{"start":247.642,"end":256.147,"text":"直接說,排除在外,確定?對好,我們希望一週內可以得到相關的回應好,謝謝署長,謝謝非常謝謝署長這麼積極的態度那接下來看一下這個是體育署補助中華足協的企業聯賽上禮拜本來有一場記者會是發生什麼事情呢?因為中華足協居然讓性侵案判刑確定的球員繼續出現在登錄名單上可是後來可能消息走漏,沒關係球隊跟足協就宣稱這是誤會好,那我們來看一下"},{"start":276.078,"end":289.986,"text":"可是這個是體育署一年補助兩三千萬的聯賽然後其實這個選手他早在2022年的12月台南地方法院就一審判決罪名成立可是一直到2023年的6月在體育署補助的聯賽當中還出現這個選手一樣林榮忍這件事情署長你怎麼看"},{"start":295.339,"end":315.251,"text":"幫委員 這部分我們已經要求台鋼將這名球員把他移除在球隊以外好 謝謝署長 謝謝那我想相關林榮仁我相信署長你一定也認同自己身為孩子的父親跟自己身為大學教授所以我在想說後續我們會再跟體育署持續保持討論關於這個林榮仁相關的政策也希望體育署可以在一個月內提供相關調查跟檢討報告 可以嗎"},{"start":316.892,"end":319.333,"text":"兩位選手是在2023年參加亞洲短道競速滑冰錦標賽當時這是正式的國際賽事他還拿到了青年男子B組500公尺的金牌很棒對不對但是回到台灣呢他說"},{"start":337.62,"end":343.383,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案 案。 »:一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案 案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條條文修正草案 案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具"},{"start":363.752,"end":384.301,"text":"而這個AB不是等級他只是分組名稱而回到當時國光獎章給獎辦法那個時候還沒有拆分所以其實是把15歲到18歲都放在同一個續獎的範圍所以也才會出現明明16歲的這個孩子他是符合原來設定的年紀規範可是因為大會的分組名稱修正體育署不願意給獎可是我們回過來看喔"},{"start":386.802,"end":404.271,"text":"時間也好,還有兩分鐘這個給獎這件事情呢本來單項協會在選手資格送到全國體總審查小組的時候第一關刑事審查這個小孩被刷掉了然後呢再來這個案子根本就沒有被全國體總送到國光獎金的初審會議上也就不會進入體育署的副審會議"},{"start":405.211,"end":433.848,"text":"所以呢對於審查結果不符這個事情選手跟家長都沒有辦法進行訴願救濟也就沒有辦法進行審查可是協會其實本來應該要為選手做更積極的爭取不是嗎我們來看這個孩子絕對不會是個案喔之前在2013年WBC棒協也是沒有把這個比賽納入國光獎章的續獎賽事當時體育署的態度是說重寬處理也就是說有沒有可能其實這個事情而且我們來下一頁"},{"start":435.365,"end":462.709,"text":"這個孩子的個案他目前無設獎金他只有獎章他其實是一個非常重要的鼓勵性質有沒有有沒有什麼可能發生了這個中間一連串我剛講這個事情難道我們政府不能給孩子多一點的鼓勵嗎我剛說他無設獎金他只有獎章那政府真的不能給這個孩子或是相關的選手有覺得更積極的是台灣的政府為他們做他們非常重要的後盾嗎請署長說明一下"},{"start":463.089,"end":490.532,"text":"八位委員這部分因為牽涉了比較細部的部分我想我回去重啟調查然後來看看是不是有機會來給這位孩子能夠有一個他的回復他的榮譽謝謝署長就是我第一個要求希望由體育署召開重啟相關調查不管是體總或是滑冰協會還有這個青年層級如果無關獎金而只是獎章鼓勵我相信署長你也認同還有什麼樣的辦法跟審查機制可以鼓勵更多的青年選手在不同的單項運動裡面"},{"start":491.913,"end":503.823,"text":"還有就是目前單項協會行政量能不足我相信署長你一定非常清楚還有承辦單位可能過於僵化有沒有相關賽事漏報可能的救濟進行相關辦法的修訂這個部分也拜託體育署積極進行討論是好謝謝署長謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151404","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151404","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445ec0fccfd535eb24c0525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c941563234e73618c5b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:35:26 - 10:46:39","影片長度":"00:11:13","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":673,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:46:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:35:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":545,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時35分）謝謝主席。我們請主委還有銀行局、證期局、促參司副司長。"],["主席：請黃主委、銀行局局長、證期局局長……"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["賴委員惠員：主委早安，針對今天修正的草案來跟主委做一個探討。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，請指示。"],["賴委員惠員：由銀行擔任信託機構，我們一般民眾的小資金也可以投資到不動產，這個小資金投資到不動產就委託銀行擔任信託機構，整個營運狀況就是針對不動產的營運跟收益，然後我們再回到證券化把這個利益給一般的民眾。事實上，把不動產的成本拆成小等份，讓小資金也可以投資不動產，這是針對今天修正的草案最主要的一個精神，是嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，不過現在是由基金投信業者或是專業的不動產投資信託去做，基金型的。"],["賴委員惠員：所以我們今天就是希望增加基金型？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員惠員：好，臺灣目前只有7檔，而且獲利低，這樣是不是有人想要投資？如果馬來西亞、新加坡、美國、臺灣同時發展這個市場的時候，我們拿新加坡跟臺灣來講，目前臺灣只有7檔，剩下的這7檔，事實上在商業市場裡頭是一個最自然的淘汰法還是生存的一個法則？為什麼發展不佳？目前我們REITs發展的市場到底遇到什麼樣的問題？有人想投資，但對於過去市場冷淡的問題，我們有沒有辦法解決？針對銀行，也就是擔任信託機構發行REITs，它們其實是興趣缺缺；針對廠商，他們認為發行REITs的成本比跟銀行借錢還來得高；一般老百姓認為它的流通性太弱了，它是不是要課稅？收益要課稅，又沒有投資的誘因，主委怎麼看待這些問題呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們從民國92年有不動產證券化條例之後，就是用信託型的架構來做REITs，其中在98年的時候還同意開放開發型的，105年又同意投資國外，儘管有這兩個擴大範圍的措施，到目前來講，臺灣的整個規模大概就像你所知的不到700億左右，可是你看香港那麼小就有6,400億，日本有3.2兆，新加坡有2.3兆。歸結它的架構上，其他國家都是用基金型，有的是一檔基金有一個機構，當然我們現在是一個機構可以發很多檔，我覺得這個組織架構可能會成為這個基金是不是活躍的原因之一，畢竟在現在的狀況之下，銀行作為信託機構保管、運用，甚至也不是直接運用，它是委託另外一個機構去管，但是現在的基金型就是基金機構本身就有不動產專業投資人……"],["賴委員惠員：主委，顯然從你的談話裡頭，你也同意透過一個基金的模式，我們讓這個募集可以更吸引投資人？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["賴委員惠員：所以上面的三個問題都已經解決了？有沒有解決呢？我們是不是可以放寬REITs的投資項目讓民眾參與公共建設？我們知道所有興建中的公設，不管是社宅還是綠能，還有很多在國內如火如荼進行的投資案，我們光是1月份出來的報告，開戶的股民就占了47萬，總開戶有1,256萬，相當是全臺灣一半的人口，可是小股民的實力非常雄厚。如果透過這樣的機制，吸引民眾來投資公設，讓全民都有機會參與，不知道你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟委員報告，傳統我們是指商辦或者醫療大樓這些有穩定現金收入的，當然也包括公共建設，可是我這邊要很冒昧跟委員您報告，我們不包括住宅啦！因為我們怕這個基金會影響房價，但是公共建設是有，比方說風力發電、離岸發電、綠能這些發電建設都可以，只要它能夠產生穩定現金流量都可以納入，我們目的也是希望讓這些切割化、證券化的證券，經過安排機構信用的增強，讓小額投資人能夠安心的投資。"],["賴委員惠員：可是如果回到不動產證券化，有很多主要產品是不動產，請教促參司，如果透過促參司PPP的方式，有沒有機會把這些錢就是讓REITs可以跟PPP合併在一起，然後來募資呢？"],["張副司長素珍：跟委員報告，我們也是很希望這個資金可以導引到我們目前正在推的政府有償取得公共服務，就是有償PPP的案子裡面。"],["賴委員惠員：可是主委是講社會住宅是不適用的。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，現在的草案中沒有包括類似這種社宅、這些住宅性質，因為就是擔心會有……"],["賴委員惠員：可不可以放進來呢？主委，可以不可以放進來呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我們草案是沒有，當然看到時候委員會討論的時候……我們當初是顧慮民眾覺得這個基金要到房市來講，會不會讓民眾誤以為又要炒房？因為怕這個誤會，所以就沒有放進去。"],["賴委員惠員：所以就是怕，先暫時迴避一下？"],["黃主任委員天牧：所以沒有把它放進去，當然尊重委員最後在逐條討論時的意見。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["賴委員惠員：在這裡我們透過促參的方式，有沒有機會創造弱勢民眾有比較多可以投資的機會，所以我們先出來的這些投資的商品，然後股民，還有政府都可以不用大額舉債建設，政府當二房東以低廉的價格租給弱勢民眾，解決弱勢民眾住房的需求，我還是認為這是一個非常好的機會。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["賴委員惠員：我們也確保政府做二房東有固定的費用，保證投資人有固定的收益。","倒是有一個比較嚴肅的問題，在這裡我想請教主委，如果我們增加發行機構，讓更多人加入的時候，在管理上有沒有問題呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，你問到一個重點，因為它是一般投資人可以投資的，所以投資人保護很重要，那治理的問題很重要，所以這裡面包括基金的架構裡面，它一定要有產生穩定現金流量的資產，今天我的報告有，至少要到75%以上，那75%以上的資產要產生90%以上的現金收入，讓它很穩定，這對投資人才是有保障的。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：那治理的問題就是投資人保護問題是我們非常重視的。"],["賴委員惠員：是，這有一個技術性的問題，原本的信託至少3年才開一次受益人大會，可是基金化以後是不是完全不用開呢？需不需要開呢？誰來監督呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個我請局長跟您報告。"],["賴委員惠員：好。"],["張局長振山：有很多事項比方說關係人交易等等，它最後還要到受益人大會去決議，不是個別公司可以決定。"],["賴委員惠員：局長，我想請教你，針對第四十九條之二特別在第十四項裡頭有規定，受益人會議之召開事由、出席權數、表決權數及決議方式，你們其實只提到了這樣的方式，並沒有到底是多久要開一次受益人大會，只是講至少3年，有沒有機會一年一次？因為我們知道不動產交易市場不像股票市場這麼公開透明，你怎麼會知道有沒有圖利呢？這個問題你怎麼看呢？"],["張局長振山：將來會有子法可以做細部的規範，如果有必要的時候。"],["賴委員惠員：你的子法裡頭會不會規定每年開一次受益人大會呢？顯然這個3年才開一次的話是非常危險的喔！局長？"],["張局長振山：我們到子法那邊再討論，但是我們目前的規劃是至少3年要開一個……"],["賴委員惠員：那你的態度呢？你認為3年開一次比較安全，還是一年開一次比較安全呢？"],["張局長振山：目前我們是用3年的方式，因為目前看國外的……"],["賴委員惠員：所以我問你是3年比較安全，還是一年比較安全呢？"],["張局長振山：因為它每年開的話，成本會很高。"],["賴委員惠員：成本會很高？"],["張局長振山：是。"],["賴委員惠員：這個成本我們可以轉嫁，這個其實是一個監督的能量，我相信所有股民也希望這個監督的能量可以轉到其保障的方式……"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，我想這樣子，我覺得您的垂詢非常重要，這個期間是可以討論的啦！我們可以再討論，如果覺得不用3年，提前一點讓受益人更清楚瞭解這個基金運作的情況，當然這裡有trade off，成本就會增加，但是是可以討論的。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：本席在這邊要求金管會評估修法後整個市場成長的狀況；與內政部協調是不是在草案修正以後，優先提出以公共建設為標的商品；也希望金管會應要求每年召開受益人會議，增加透明度，保障小股東的權益。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們朝這個方向去研究，好不好？謝謝委員。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員質詢。待會我們在伍麗華委員質詢之後，休息10分鐘。","接著我們請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.2415937500000003,"end":3.2878437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.84471875,"end":7.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.810343750000001,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.25284375,"end":12.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.290343750000002,"end":16.129718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.813468750000002,"end":15.015968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.922843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.59784375,"end":18.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.54284375,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.91346875,"end":23.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.06909375,"end":32.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.26221875,"end":33.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.00034375,"end":41.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.931593750000005,"end":42.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.893468750000004,"end":46.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.94346875,"end":47.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.141593750000006,"end":58.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.924718750000004,"end":63.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.447218750000005,"end":71.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.07034375,"end":78.34784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.58846875,"end":90.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.92159375,"end":80.06909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.08159375000001,"end":82.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.70034375,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.40471875,"end":96.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.28159375,"end":105.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.78659375000001,"end":109.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.34284375,"end":118.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.32471875,"end":123.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.21409375,"end":129.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.08659375000002,"end":145.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.67909375000002,"end":147.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.72096875,"end":150.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.18034375000002,"end":151.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.34471875,"end":159.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.49971875,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.19159375,"end":167.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.12284375000002,"end":177.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.77534375000002,"end":178.16346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.06221875,"end":198.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.35846875000001,"end":205.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.80471875,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.33596875,"end":211.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.31846875000002,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.54971875,"end":226.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.49784375000002,"end":236.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.75784375,"end":237.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.00659375,"end":252.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.63284375,"end":258.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.60659375,"end":264.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.46221875000003,"end":264.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.12034375,"end":296.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.59221875000003,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.39721875000004,"end":324.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.43721875,"end":317.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.28409375,"end":324.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.33471875000004,"end":330.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.89909375,"end":331.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.86096875000004,"end":340.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.02846875,"end":359.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.82471875000005,"end":348.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.24659375000005,"end":348.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.31221875,"end":363.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.63221875000005,"end":368.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.93534375,"end":377.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.82846875,"end":382.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.94159375000004,"end":383.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.31284375,"end":390.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.05034375,"end":390.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.88971875000004,"end":390.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.12596875,"end":393.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.11721875,"end":402.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.30971875,"end":409.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.84034375000005,"end":413.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.36721875,"end":420.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.90284375000005,"end":415.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.06659375000004,"end":449.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.14221875000004,"end":423.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.22034375000004,"end":435.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.27284375000005,"end":456.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.33096875,"end":456.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.82034375,"end":460.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.02221875000004,"end":470.45534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.48909375000005,"end":481.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.06534375,"end":492.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.96721875000003,"end":489.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.88221875000005,"end":503.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.29409375000006,"end":508.74471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.15034375000005,"end":505.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.38221875000005,"end":506.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.67721875,"end":523.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.3459687500001,"end":523.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.96596875,"end":525.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.7209687500001,"end":526.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.16784375,"end":535.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.5928437499999,"end":574.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.6203437500001,"end":577.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.0165937500001,"end":582.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.9272187500001,"end":592.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.7903437500001,"end":600.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.89909375,"end":606.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.3115937499999,"end":611.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.48409375,"end":614.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.12909375,"end":616.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.7109687500001,"end":617.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.6897187500001,"end":618.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.5503437500001,"end":630.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.41346875,"end":634.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.90221875,"end":636.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.28159375,"end":639.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.6272187500001,"end":642.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":642.7153437500001,"end":645.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.03971875,"end":647.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":646.34346875,"end":647.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.6765937499999,"end":662.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.4422187499999,"end":671.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":670.47471875,"end":673.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.73596875,"end":673.74846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.604,"end":24.827,"text":"謝謝主席我們請那個主委還有銀行局政區局還有處參司副司長請黃主委銀行局局長委員長是主委早安主委我想針對著今天修正的一個草案跟主委來做一個探討是請指示其實我想就是"},{"start":26.067,"end":42.654,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":42.654,"end":71.954,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":72.45,"end":96.498,"text":"是,不過現在是由基金投信業者或是專業的不動產投資企業去做基金型的所以我們今天就是希望增加基金型是那如果就是說光是台灣目前只有7檔就是獲利低是不是有人想要投資那我們如果從馬來西亞、新加坡、美國、台灣這個同時就是說在"},{"start":97.278,"end":99.299,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":110.811,"end":129.053,"text":"這是在一個商業市場的裡頭一個最自然的一個淘汰法還是說生存的一個法則那我想在這裡就是說為什麼發展不佳那目前就是說我們的綠色發展的一個市場到底遇到了什麼樣的一個問題"},{"start":130.194,"end":133.375,"text":"兩、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案"},{"start":155.688,"end":167.202,"text":"一般的老百姓認為說它的流通性太弱了是不是要課稅那收益要課稅又沒有投資的一個誘因主委你怎麼看待這些問題"},{"start":168.183,"end":195.412,"text":"其實我們從民國92年有不動產政經化條例之後其實就是用信託型的架構來做位置那其中98年的時候還同意開放開發型的那105年要同意投資國外但儘管有這兩個擴大範圍的這個措施其實到目前來講臺灣的這個整個規模大概就像您所知有不到700億左右可是你看香港那麼小它就有6400億日本有3.2兆新加坡有2.3兆那"},{"start":197.553,"end":220.896,"text":"規則它的架構上面其他國家都是用基金行有的是一檔基金有一個機構當然我們現在是一個機構可以發很多檔那我覺得這個組織架構可能會變成為這個它基金是不是活躍的一個原因之一因為畢竟在現在的狀況之下銀行要信託機構保管運用甚至運用它也不是直接去做它是委託另外一個機構去管"},{"start":221.957,"end":236.338,"text":"但是現在的基金型就是基金機構本身就也不動產就有投資人才所以就是說顯然我從你的一個談話裡頭你也同意就是說透過一個基金的一個模式我們讓這個募集可以更吸引到投資人是是是"},{"start":237.119,"end":264.611,"text":"所以就是說上面的三個問題都已經解決了那有沒有解決呢那我們是不是可以換款類似的一個投資項目讓民眾去參與公共的一個建設我們現在知道就是說所有所有興建中的這些公社不管是社宅還是說我們的利能還有我們很多的一個國內現在如火如荼的在進行的一些投資案那"},{"start":265.831,"end":290.805,"text":"這裡請教主委就是說你看喔我們光是這個一月份我們出來的一個通告就是光是那個我們開戶的股民就佔了74萬47萬47萬不好意思齁那就是說總開戶我們有1256萬相當是全台灣一半的人口那事實上小股民的一個實力非常的雄厚那如果就是說"},{"start":291.425,"end":291.465,"text":"議員報告案2"},{"start":316.964,"end":339.924,"text":"我們怕這個基金會影響房價但是公共建設是有比方說風力發電離岸發電綠能的這些發電建設都可以只要他能夠產生穩定現金流量都可以納入但我們也是目的是希望讓這些切割化的證券化的證券經過安排機構的信用的增強能夠讓小額的投資人能夠安心的投資"},{"start":340.384,"end":363.719,"text":"但是如果我們回到不動產證券化的話就是說有很多我們的主要的產品是在不動產那我想請教初參司如果就是說透過一個初參司的一個PPP的一個方式有沒有機會我們把這個這些錢就是說讓那個可以跟PPP合併在一起然後我們來募資呢"},{"start":365.18,"end":392.578,"text":"跟委員報告我們也是很希望說就是這個資金可以導引到那個我們目前正在推的政府有償取得公共服務就是有償PPP的案子裡面是所以可是主委是講說這個社會住宅是不適用的報告委員現在的草案中裡面沒有包括類似這種社宅這些住宅的性質那可不可以放進來呢主委可不可以放進來呢"},{"start":393.887,"end":409.484,"text":"這個我們草案是沒有當然看到時候委員會討論的時候因為我們當初是顧慮民眾覺得這個基金一個基金又到這個房市來講會不會讓民眾誤以為又要再炒房所以有這個怕這個誤會了所以就沒有放進去"},{"start":409.904,"end":435.561,"text":"所以就是說怕我們先暫時迴避一下所以沒有把它放進去當然尊重委員最後面在逐條討論的時候的意見是是好那謝謝主委謝謝委員我想就是說我們透過初餐的一個方式創造創造有沒有機會就是說創造就是弱勢的民眾他有比較多的一個機會可以再投資就是所以我們"},{"start":436.221,"end":438.142,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。"},{"start":461.095,"end":480.841,"text":"二黃東那有固定的一個會用那保證投資人有一個固定的一個收益倒是有一個比較嚴肅的一個問題就是說在這裡我想就是來請教請教就是我們主委如果說我們增加了花型的機構讓更多的人加入的時候在管理上有沒有問題呢"},{"start":482.113,"end":508.251,"text":"委員您問到一個重點因為它是一般投資人可以投資的所以投資人保護很重要那治理問題很重要所以這裡面包括基金的架構裡面包括一定它的有產生穩定現金流量的資產今天我的報告有至少要到75以上那75以上的資產要產生90以上的現金收入讓它很穩定對投資人才是有保障的治理問題就是投資人保護問題是我們非常重視的"},{"start":508.831,"end":509.392,"text":"請局長報告"},{"start":528.206,"end":542.13,"text":"有很多的事項比方說關係人交易等等他最後還要受益人大會去決議不是他個別公司可以決定的局長我想請教你就是針對的第49條之二你在這裡頭有特別就是第14項裡頭有想"},{"start":543.931,"end":570,"text":"收益人的一個會議召開的一個是由出席的一個前述跟表決的一個前述及結議的一個方式你們其實只提到了這樣的一個方式你們並沒有就是說到底是多久要開一次收益人大會你只是講至少三年那有沒有機會就是說一年一次因為我們知道不動產交易的市場它不像股票市場"},{"start":570.76,"end":592.053,"text":"是這麼公開透明的你怎麼會知道有沒有圖令啊?這個問題你怎麼看勒?我們後面將來會有執法我們可以做細部的規範如果有必要的時候那你的執法裡頭會不會把它訂入就是說每年開一次受益人大會呢?顯然這個三年再開一次的話是非常危險的喔"},{"start":595.107,"end":616.064,"text":"局長我們到了執法那邊在討論但是我們目前的規劃是說至少要三年要開一個那你的態度呢你認為三年開一次比較安全還是一年開一次比較安全目前我們是用三年的方式的因為目前看國外的所以我問你啊是三年比較安全還是一年比較安全因為它開每年開的話成本會很高"},{"start":616.772,"end":633.804,"text":"一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案3、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案4、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案5、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案6、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案7、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案8、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案9、處理中華民國"},{"start":646.833,"end":673.272,"text":"謝謝主委我想就是說本席在這邊要求就是金管會評估修法後那就是說整個市場的一個成長的一個狀況跟內政部協調是不是在草案修正以後優先提出以公共建設為標的的一個商品那也希望金管會要要求每年召開受益人會議增加他的一個透明度保障小股東的一個潛意我們朝這個方向去研究好不好謝謝委員謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"151403","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151403","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445553b1cea53cb342604d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94e54a6599b840bfc85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:31:34 - 10:41:27","影片長度":"00:09:53","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":593,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:41:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:31:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":716,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時31分）主席、各位委員。有請部長，還有水利署署長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長、賴署長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長辛苦了！你辛苦很多年了。"],["王部長美花：不會！應該的，覺得在這個位置、在這一段時間為國家做這些事情，非常有意義。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：非常謝謝你。自來水法第十二條之二第三項裡面特別提到水源保育與回饋費得納入相關基金管理，專供水質水量保護區內辦理水資源保育與環境生態保育基礎設施、居民公共福利回饋及受限土地補償之用。第三款也提到發放因水質水量保護區之劃設，土地受限制使用之土地所有權人或相關權益人補償金事項；還有原住民族地區租稅補助事項。在第十二條之二第四項也特別提到補償對象相關的發放標準，還要由經濟部跟原民會共同訂定，這個標準也都定了。自來水法第十二條之二第五項支用於第三項第一款至第五款，但原住民族鄉應從優考量。這個實施很多年了，請問署長，這實施很多年了，經費、基金也都有編列，你們在執行上往年都是幾月份會撥到地方政府，如果是要撥到地方政府的經費？"],["賴署長建信：這個部分大概是第一季，有的單位會比較晚送，可能是第二季。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：第一季是什麼時候？幾月到幾月？"],["賴署長建信：1到3月左右。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：1到3月，好。"],["賴署長建信：基本上，針對這個問題我們也想出解決方法。第一個，事實上每年的用度大部分都是如常的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對！"],["賴署長建信：我們希望它前一年也許10月就先送過來，我們就預審，所以可以更快一點，也許在第一季的前一、兩個月就可以處理。像今年的話，我們也是這樣來處理，基本上在3月的部分，我們針對全國水質水量保護區的部分都已經核定了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：是不是請署長會後把花蓮縣跟臺東縣的部分提供給本席？"],["賴署長建信：沒有問題。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也許你們同仁的作業說不定有漏掉的部分，尤其是花蓮縣跟臺東縣，請查一下。"],["賴署長建信：好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。這個部分以前我都是質詢署長，上一次有特別質詢部長，因為部長是學法律的，而且這方面的權益應該要予以保障。內政部修訂土地法第十四條第一項各款規定不得私有土地劃定原則，這裡面就談到原住民申請原住民保留地，已奉核定，奉誰核定呢？是行政院喔！是行政院核定為增劃編保留地，這是第一個；核定之後，原民會、地方政府就把它設定耕作權、地上權或農育權。所以兩個條件，部長還有署長，第一個是行政院已經核定了，我現在談的有幾筆土地，行政院已經核定為增劃編原住民保留地，那個過程很長喔！是從鄉鎮公所一直到縣市政府、到中央行政院核定，然後核定之後，原民會、鄉鎮市公所再把它設定耕作權、地上權或農育權，應排除劃入不得私有土地範圍，這是內政部所訂之規定。所以本席提出這個老案子，吉安鄉海濱段678之1、678之2、679及680地號等這幾筆土地，經濟部水利署並沒有依水利法第八十三條規定公告為不得私有的區塊。我剛剛講的這幾筆土地都是行政院已經核定了，而且已經設定耕作權，所以請部長、署長這邊能夠趕快同意，因為它是依法處理，部長及署長可以嗎？"],["賴署長建信：上次委員問過這個問題，我也跟部長報告過我們通案的處理原則，至於這個個案的部分，因為它當時核定的時候，吉安鄉公所並沒有來徵詢我們相關的單位，現在的話，他們在實施行政院核定的過程裡面，就會徵詢我們的意見，我們就會依照水利法管理原則的意見呈示給它……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，現在行政院已經核定了，我們現在……"],["賴署長建信：因為它是在行水區裡面，這個比較特別，至於像秀姑巒溪或是其他溪的部分……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，你回去查，整個區塊如果沒有一筆私有土地，我就認了，但非常多的私有土地都在那邊，好不好？你回去查，這樣可以吧？"],["賴署長建信：那是限制使用，依照水利法做限制使用的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，我們一樣，土地所有權給他，一樣限制使用，我們絕對是依法限制使用，好不好？"],["賴署長建信：相關單位假如說是來文，我們會依法、依照程序來做回應。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我的意思是你先去查，這幾筆土地周邊、整個區塊到底有多少私有土地，這很容易查吧？"],["賴署長建信：對，沒有問題。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：就麻煩署長。部長，會後請署長依法行政，這是法律，這符合法律，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最後，還有時間，部長跟署長先回座。請台電總經理。"],["主席：我們再請台電王總經理。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長請回座。"],["王部長美花：是，謝謝委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你們編列的核能發電後端營運基金，我覺得需要再考量，有的已經執行了，當然不得不執行，像蘭嶼地區居民生活環境與飲食習慣調查，其必要性我是質疑啦，不然你把當初調查的目的是什麼，提供給本席。另外就是推展費用，加強與外界宣導低放射性廢棄物處理及貯存業務，這些大家都瞭解了，這個已經幾十年了，要花這些錢還不如把這些錢直接給我們的蘭嶼鄉親，做這些宣導的費用，然後這裡你看看，睦鄰跟公益支出也提供去年的執行情形好不好？"],["王總經理耀庭：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們要去檢視到底是不是確實對蘭嶼的鄉親有幫助。另外，核能發電後端營運基金這個部分，因為現在很多都要除役了，也沒有核四了，核一、核二、核三，也都沒有了，所以這個部分，你們還要去委託調查研究，花那麼多錢去委託調查研究，還要政策業務宣導，這個部分的必要性你提書面資料給我，好不好？"],["王總經理耀庭：好，再給委員書面資料。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["主席（鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員代）：請楊瓊瓔召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","林德福","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","黃國昌","李柏毅","蔡易餘","陳超明","陳亭妃","陳冠廷"],"page_start":339,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資\n源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00018"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.83846875,"end":19.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.77471875,"end":20.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.922218750000003,"end":21.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.10346875,"end":23.352218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.774093750000002,"end":24.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.516593750000002,"end":25.039718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.89596875,"end":27.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.419093750000002,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.17846875,"end":29.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.79846875,"end":30.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.844718750000002,"end":32.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.29596875,"end":36.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.35909375,"end":34.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.83534375,"end":39.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.06284375,"end":40.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.68721875,"end":39.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.76284375,"end":44.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.83409375,"end":45.104093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.27284375,"end":46.673468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.297843750000006,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.086593750000006,"end":50.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.094718750000006,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.27096875,"end":69.50534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.14659375000001,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.93034375,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.04784375,"end":83.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.47784375,"end":84.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.57034375,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.51534375,"end":87.40971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.83159375000001,"end":89.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.33346875000001,"end":92.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.01221875,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.72909375,"end":97.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.58534375,"end":98.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.98596875000001,"end":104.28471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.09471875000001,"end":105.95534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.83284375000001,"end":109.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.41471875,"end":110.83221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.33846875,"end":113.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.37596875000001,"end":120.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.49721875,"end":122.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.69096875000001,"end":124.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.05784375,"end":125.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.12096875,"end":127.42034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.23034375,"end":130.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.67721875,"end":131.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.12409375000001,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.99721875,"end":135.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.85784375,"end":136.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.22471875000002,"end":141.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.66284375,"end":143.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.14346875,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.36159375,"end":156.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.00659375,"end":156.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.04034375,"end":156.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.24284375000002,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.05284375000002,"end":166.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.92471875,"end":168.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.54471875000002,"end":169.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.08471875,"end":170.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.53159375,"end":191.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.93346875,"end":193.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.29596875000001,"end":196.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.75971875000002,"end":198.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.05471875,"end":203.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.86409375000002,"end":209.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.14159375000003,"end":211.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.76159375,"end":213.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.27596875,"end":214.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.42346875,"end":216.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.11096875,"end":218.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.06409375,"end":222.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.56159375000001,"end":224.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.89034375000003,"end":227.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.97846875000002,"end":230.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.86409375000002,"end":232.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.88909375,"end":235.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.14596875,"end":236.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.42846875,"end":244.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.35971875,"end":249.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.11409375000002,"end":252.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.43034375000002,"end":255.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.14284375,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.44659375000003,"end":258.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.75409375000004,"end":261.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.62284375,"end":264.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.27221875000004,"end":266.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.40284375000005,"end":268.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.20409375,"end":271.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.37659375000004,"end":274.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.62096875000003,"end":275.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.12284375,"end":280.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.16846875000005,"end":282.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.44659375000003,"end":284.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.60659375,"end":286.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.99034375,"end":288.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.38659375000003,"end":290.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.56784375,"end":292.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.21721875000003,"end":293.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.70659375,"end":294.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.15346875,"end":296.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.01409375000003,"end":298.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.53284375000004,"end":301.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.80221875,"end":308.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.21471875000003,"end":311.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.89784375,"end":314.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.73284375000003,"end":320.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.66846875000005,"end":323.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.69346875,"end":330.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.30409375000005,"end":331.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.04659375,"end":332.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.32909375,"end":336.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.34534375000004,"end":339.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.12971875,"end":342.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.08284375,"end":343.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.75346875,"end":345.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.44096875,"end":347.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.47034375000004,"end":348.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.70221875000004,"end":350.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.87909375000004,"end":351.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.46534375000005,"end":354.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.36784375,"end":356.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.20721875000004,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.74721875,"end":358.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.48971875,"end":359.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.77221875000004,"end":360.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.10534375000003,"end":362.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.18096875000003,"end":363.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.21471875000003,"end":363.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.31596875,"end":363.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.90659375,"end":365.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.54784375,"end":364.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.63221875000005,"end":364.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.64909375,"end":364.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.98659375,"end":365.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.32409375000003,"end":374.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.84159375,"end":383.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.17346875000004,"end":391.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.01659375,"end":391.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.86846875000003,"end":393.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.48409375,"end":396.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.66096875000005,"end":396.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.67784375,"end":400.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.31909375000004,"end":398.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.59721875,"end":400.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.08221875000004,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.97659375,"end":403.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.91721875,"end":405.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.82409375000003,"end":408.01784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.18221875,"end":410.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.92034375000003,"end":413.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.15596875,"end":417.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.47221875,"end":419.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.78409375,"end":419.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.69096875,"end":425.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.66471875,"end":432.87471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.60909375,"end":433.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.83659375,"end":437.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.14409375,"end":438.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.21971875,"end":439.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.72596875000005,"end":440.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.53159375,"end":442.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.30346875000004,"end":444.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.21471875000003,"end":445.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.87284375,"end":445.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.26096875,"end":447.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.40409375,"end":447.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.28159375,"end":449.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.44159375000004,"end":451.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.34846875000005,"end":453.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.74909375000004,"end":458.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.23346875000004,"end":460.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.48221875,"end":462.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.94596875,"end":463.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.18596875000003,"end":467.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.82284375,"end":469.57784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.26971875000004,"end":470.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.65346875000006,"end":472.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.91909375000006,"end":473.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.26034375,"end":477.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.36971875,"end":479.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.83346875,"end":482.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.19596875,"end":494.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.80596875000003,"end":498.72096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.17659375000005,"end":502.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.32784375000006,"end":505.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.84221875000003,"end":508.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.79534375000003,"end":513.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.68909375,"end":514.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.07284375,"end":516.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.82784375,"end":518.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.1228437500001,"end":519.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.71346875,"end":528.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.5559687500001,"end":529.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.14221875,"end":531.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.7959687499999,"end":535.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.4240937500001,"end":538.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.61346875,"end":540.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.58784375,"end":542.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.12784375,"end":542.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.91659375,"end":549.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.0209687500001,"end":552.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.7334687499999,"end":555.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.31534375,"end":558.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.81284375,"end":563.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.60534375,"end":566.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.5078437500001,"end":566.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.83659375,"end":570.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.1359687500001,"end":571.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.65471875,"end":576.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.1897187500001,"end":580.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.20596875,"end":582.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.57284375,"end":583.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.04096875,"end":587.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.97284375,"end":589.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.30971875,"end":592.9678437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.203,"end":28.864,"text":"請做詢答。主席、各位委員、有請部長。我們再請王部長。還有水利署署長。好,蔡市長。部長辛苦了。是。"},{"start":29.847,"end":31.708,"text":"自然水法第12條第3項"},{"start":49.17,"end":69.008,"text":"特別提到水源保育與回饋費得納入基金管理然後專攻水質水量保護區內辦理水資源保育與環境生態保育基礎設施基民公共福利回饋及受限土地補償之用"},{"start":70.219,"end":96.953,"text":"然後這個第三款也提到發放因水質水量保護期之劃設土地受限制使用之土地所有前人或相關前一人補償事項還有原住民族第7租稅這個補助事項第12至2條第4項也特別提到補償對象這個相關的這些發放標準還要由延民會跟"},{"start":98.045,"end":122.219,"text":"由經濟部跟聯盟會共同定的,都定了,這個標準也都定了。《治安稅法》第12條第5項,自用於第3項第1款至第5款,但嚴重民主相應從優考量。這個實施很多年了,實施很多年了。現在就是署長,"},{"start":123.955,"end":142.933,"text":"請問署長這個實施很多年了經費基金也都有編列那你們在執行上以往年都是幾月份會撥到地方政府如果要撥到地方政府的經費"},{"start":144.755,"end":170.565,"text":"這個部分大概是第一季然後有些單位有的單位他會比較晚送那可能是第二季第一季是什麼時候?幾月到幾月?一到三月左右一到三月那基本上針對這個問題我們也想出解決方法第一個是說事實上每年的這個用度大部分都是如常的那我們希望說他前一年"},{"start":172.325,"end":191.521,"text":"前一年也許10月就先送過來我們就預審所以可以更快一點也許在第一季的前一兩個月就可以處理像今年的話我們也是這樣子來處理基本上在3月的部分我們針對全國水質水量保護區的部分都已經核定了"},{"start":194.429,"end":215.41,"text":"是不是請署長會後把那個花蓮縣跟台東縣的部分提供給本席沒有問題也許你們的同仁的作業有點說不定有漏掉的部分尤其是花蓮縣跟台東縣查一下好謝謝這個部分"},{"start":220.094,"end":249.518,"text":"上次有跟這個部長以前我都是質詢署長那上一次有特別質詢這個部長因為部長是寫法例的這個而且這方面的權益應該要以保障內政部修訂了這個土地法第14條第一項各款規定不得私有土地的劃定原則這裡面我們就談到這個原住民申請原住民保留地"},{"start":251.155,"end":278.846,"text":"已奉核定,誰奉誰核定呢?是行政院喔是行政院核定為徵兵保留地這第一個,核定之後, 原民會地方政府就把它設定耕作錢、地上錢或農業錢所以兩個條件,部長還有署長他第一個行政已經核定了,我現在談的有幾筆土地"},{"start":281.235,"end":301.217,"text":"行政已經合併徵花邊緣豬雲堡的地他那個過程很長是從鄉鎮公所一直到縣市政府到中央行政合併然後合併之後人民會鄉鎮市公所再把他設定耕作錢、地上錢或農業錢"},{"start":302.847,"end":319.151,"text":"然後就可以應排除劃入不得私有土地的範圍這是內政部所訂的一個規定所以本席這個老案子吉安鄉海濱段678-1、678-2、679及680-1這幾筆土地經濟部水利署並沒有依水利法83條公告為不得私有的區塊然後這個"},{"start":333.376,"end":362.638,"text":"我剛講了這幾筆土地這幾筆土地都是行政院已經核定的而且已經設定跟做前所以這樣的要請這個部長請署長這邊能夠把他趕快就同意因為他就照依法來處理可以嗎部長"},{"start":364.231,"end":364.251,"text":"署長"},{"start":395.732,"end":413.658,"text":"這個比較特別,那至於說像秀姑蘭溪或是其他的溪的部分的話?這樣,署長齁,署長,你回去查齁,整個那個區塊,如果沒有一筆私有土地,我如果認了,非常多的私有土地都在那邊喔!"},{"start":420.722,"end":437.291,"text":"土地所有權給他一樣限制使用,我們絕對是依法限制使用,好不好?那相關單位假如說是來文,那話我們會依法,然後依照程序來做回應我的意思說你先去查,到底這個這幾筆土地的桌邊那個7塊"},{"start":439.786,"end":463.019,"text":"整個7塊到底有多少稅有土地這很容易查吧?對,沒有問題就麻煩署長部長會後請署長依法行政這是法律,這符合法律好不好?是最後還有時間,還有部長跟署長先回座臺電副總經理"},{"start":476.663,"end":493.168,"text":"這個核能發電後端營運基金這個你們編列的這個我就覺得說是需要再考量當然有的已經執行了當然不得不執行像這個蘭嶼第7基民生活環境與飲食習慣調查"},{"start":495.782,"end":518.276,"text":"這個它的必要性我是質疑啦不然你把那個到底當初調查的目的是什麼提供給本席另外就是說這個推展費用這個外界先導地方設新廢棄物處理及儲存業務這些大家都了解啦這個已經幾十年了"},{"start":519.036,"end":522.657,"text":"發言委員：鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員：鄭天財Sra Kacaw"},{"start":543.164,"end":565.356,"text":"我們要去檢視到底是不是確實對於蘭嶼的鄉親有幫助。另外這個核能發電後端營運基金這個部分,因為現在很多都要除役,也沒有核四、核一、核二、核三。"},{"start":568.797,"end":592.978,"text":"謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"151402","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151402","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44503f5446b5929096051d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c9407257f5fd76a241a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"10:29:04 - 10:39:47","影片長度":"00:10:43","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":643,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:39:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:29:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":336,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：魯委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：部長，其實從去年6月30日道交條例修法，不管是記點，有很多相關的法規修正之後，到了去年年底，你也覺得在營業駕駛的部分產生了很多問題，很多交通的硬體環境，本來應該有停車的空間，但事實上盤點地方政府後，才發現他們可能跟不上。現在我們在針對這10個1,200塊罰款以下的來去做定義，就是不要記點，然後……"],["王部長國材：就是不開放民眾檢舉。"],["魯委員明哲：對，不開放檢舉、不記點，主要是這個部分，事實上我相信每位民意代表包括你們，應該在過去將近大半年的期間聽過各種聲音，我們辦公室也很清楚，第一波包括營業駕駛員、有些功能性的駕駛，包括復康巴士要接輪椅的，要去各方面，他們遇到很多困難，我們就發覺現在的交通環境根本不合理，他也沒有辦法，好像只能違規、只能被記點。","第二階段我們在行人路權的單位，他們有一些想法，但我覺得在公聽會，我們也發覺大家在立場上面是激烈的辯論、爭論，這都沒關係，但其實有一個最大的共識，不管是哪個團體都希望臺灣的交通環境更好，我覺得這是一個最大的共識，所以在這次修法過程中，我們希望能夠凝聚最大的共識來去做一個修正。","我先請問一下，因為520其實也快到了，現在已經公布了接下來由現在的行政院李孟諺秘書長要接任未來的交通部長，我們現在審這個，其實雙方對這樣的條文的爭議還滿大的，關於這個部分，我們也看到未來的部長特別說他也希望打造人本跟安全的交通環境，而且最重要的是他說也要向你來請益，他說了6天之後，目前你們有沒有稍微談過？"],["王部長國材：有，一直在討論，包括這次的修法，因為他當秘書長都有全程參與……"],["魯委員明哲：所以今天這10大類別，事實上也經過我們行政院秘書長……"],["王部長國材：行政院都討論過了……"],["魯委員明哲：所以這個是無縫接軌，觀念無縫接軌，是不是？"],["王部長國材：整個行政院都知道這樣的修法，包括秘書長……"],["魯委員明哲：他也全部支持嘛？"],["王部長國材：支持。"],["魯委員明哲：所以才會經過行政院的一個……確定嘛？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["魯委員明哲：但是經過了我們立法院，包括公聽會，很多委員的建議、聲音，我覺得微調這個部分，你們在交接的時候一定要講清楚，我個人也覺得真的要讓我們營業駕駛可以生存，但是這種一刀切的方式，我真的看到了一些問題，我贊成剛剛李昆澤召委他講的，有一些事情的嚴重度，雖然放在同樣一個法條裡面，可嚴重度明明就不一樣，例如在隧道裡停車，我覺得一般隧道相對昏暗，而且一般隧道因為工法的關係，所以車道就真的比較狹窄，所以在隧道裡停車跟在外面圓環其他地方停車，你把它放在一起，這個不用記點，甚至也不能檢舉，我覺得這個比較嚴重，我自己認為比較嚴重。","第二個，停在人行道上面也變成不開放檢舉，基本上也不記點，但這個東西的道理就有一點點講不通，你知道嗎？我們一堆駕駛在移動的過程中，看到人群來要過行人穿越道的時候、要過斑馬線的時候，就很小心的等在那裡，要距離幾公尺他才可以過，我們對行人穿越道是這麼敬畏的一個角度，你只要稍微離他近一點就嚴重開罰，而且聽說還記兩點，結果我們現在乾脆修個法規說沒事，你就把你的車停在人行道上面，哪個事情比較嚴重？我離別人近一點就算嚴重，可是我乾脆把車停在行人穿越道上面卻不能檢舉，也不用記點，你們回去思考一下這部分，好不好？我覺得這個在邏輯上面有問題。","所以一刀切的部分，我希望中間有一些嚴重程度跟合理程度有問題的，我覺得要把它拿掉，大家雙方也可以接受嘛？現在很多營業駕駛說你們不能害他，你知道嗎？說什麼安全帽不戴，營業駕駛說他哪有不戴安全帽、不能檢舉、不要記點，我看他們不管是Foodpanda還是什麼，每一個都乖乖的，沒有人這樣要求。","再來，也沒有營業駕駛說要占用身心障礙者的車位，所以你這一次修掉，兩邊在吵架，我覺得這是不對的，兩邊都沒有人要做這件事情，所以我在這裡要拜託交通部，甚至是未來的交通部，在交接的過程中，我覺得這真的要講清楚，部長覺得呢？因為真的有一些嚴重程度明顯不一樣，你的說法怎麼樣？"],["王部長國材：我覺得我想要尊重委員的討論，但是我們這次的1,200主要是有法源，一個是道交條例第九十二條，一個是道路交通管理事件統一裁罰基準所謂的微罪不罰，即施以勸導、免予舉發，這個意思是，譬如說當你違規停車警察來的時候，他可以把你趕走，他不開單，大概是用這種精神在看這件事，當然還是要有共識，剛剛所提的包括要不要開放民眾檢舉戴安全帽或是其他項目，現在有一個，我們跟警方也大概討論了，如果民眾打110，譬如說剛才委員說的他停在人行道，可以打110，由他們來處理，也不是說這個違規行為就不處理，只是說不開放民眾檢舉，但是他可以打110，請警察來處理，可以討論。"],["魯委員明哲：好，部長、司長，現在警政署有人在現場，你不要把他們嚇死。目前的狀況，就是你目前大概要處理這10大類別不開放檢舉，事實上，這個數據問題後續有沒有一些配套的措施，就112年的統計數據，譬如其中的前面幾個，你們現在所有成案的量體大概有80%到90%都是檢舉的案件，我在想沒有檢舉之後，剛剛有人問我們警力的負擔到底是變輕還是變重，每個人都打110，對於有一些重點的區塊，你們是準備配套用科技執法來去替代在重點的位置還是怎麼樣？警政署有沒有什麼想法？"],["劉組長振安：其實對警察來講，民眾檢舉負擔最重的是在違規臨停跟違規停車這部分，案件非常多，但是實際上對停車秩序的改善並沒有幫助，因為我們現在停車空間的供需目前還沒有到完整的時候，即使民眾檢舉的再多，但是他還是一樣會違規，至於比較重點的地區，譬如說車站或是在某一些運輸轉換的場站裡面，可以用科技執法的部分我們就用科技執法的方式去取代。"],["魯委員明哲：好，我只是提醒一下，如果確定修法，以現在這個情況，我認為第一線員警接到110的相關電話一定會有一陣子增加很多，你們自己要心理準備好。謝謝警政署。","最後我要建議一下公路總局，我們現在很多地方事實上是沒有人行道，這也是駕駛人跟行人的共識，駕駛人也希望有人行道，他們這個沒有衝突，現在我發覺行人最大的危機是，全臺灣很多的馬路，就我在桃園看到，有超多路連人行道都沒有，什麼那種標線型的也全都沒有。所以我上次有跟部長講過，我說真的要盤點一下經費，讓各縣市有一些部分，但是像省道的部分，快速道路當然就不用講，純粹車行的，但是主要的一些、比較老牌的省道如台1線、台3線，這是臺灣串接老城市最重要的一個省道，它不斷地經過市區、市區、市區，我希望很多是地方政府的事情，但是有時候公路總局要盤點台1線、台3線經過城鎮繁榮市區的部分，我覺得交通部也要做一個盤點，到底哪裡有沒有人行道、到底省道台1線、台3線經過城市的部分哪裡可以做標線型，這個部分可以做到嗎？"],["王部長國材：這個有在做，現在400億裡面，交通部是140億，國土署有260億，他是做都市計畫內的，至於140億很多都是做省道的部分，的確同委員所提的，過去省道很多地方都沒有人行道，但是省道沿線的發展越來越密集，這部分我已經請公路局當作他們這四年裡面的一個重點工作，持續來增加該設的人行道。"],["魯委員明哲：好，時間到了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲委員的發言。我們現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時39分）","繼續開會（10時52分）"],["主席：好，繼續開會。我們現在先處理臨時提案。本日臨時提案計有1案，請議事人員宣讀。","有鑑於大臺中山海環線計畫包含3個子計畫，山線高架延伸大慶烏日段、海線雙軌化以及新增甲后線鐵路，其中「海線雙軌化」行政院已於今年一月核定，然而，海線雙軌「全線高架化」對於縫合區域交通、平衡鐵道兩側經濟發展有重大助益，若無鐵路高架化，原核定路線與台中藍線交會處顯有交通整合之闕漏，且現為看守內閣期間，交通部應有為有守，對於地方建設之需要應加速協助，於5月20日前送行政院核定；又，臺鐵雖已於今年民營化，惟交通部仍有全部持股，未來營運及產權都歸屬中央，爰提案要求交通部儘速將「海線雙軌化」提升為「海線雙軌全線高架化」，且比照臺中鐵路高架捷運化計畫，由中央全額補助興建。","提案人：顏寬恒　黃健豪　林沛祥　游顥"],["主席：請問交通部有沒有意見？請說明。"],["楊局長正君：本案建議提案文字倒數第三行「要求」改為「建請」；「儘速」改為「評估」。這樣的修正意見，剛剛有跟委員辦公室做過溝通跟說明。"],["主席：倒數第四行的「民營化」應該是「公司化」吧？"],["楊局長正君：喔！是的。"],["主席：好，有跟提案委員溝通過？"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["主席：好，請問各位委員，有沒有意見？沒有意見，修正通過。","臨時提案處理完畢，如有委員對上述提案補簽，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","繼續請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":3.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.282843750000001,"end":9.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.45159375,"end":9.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.223468750000002,"end":13.125968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.63221875,"end":21.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.42846875,"end":27.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.85784375,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.95471875,"end":34.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.877843750000004,"end":36.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.93659375,"end":39.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.59846875,"end":45.610343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.74534375,"end":48.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.141593750000006,"end":48.681593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.900968750000004,"end":49.322843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.985343750000006,"end":49.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.47471875,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.55909375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.705968750000004,"end":57.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.49034375,"end":60.156593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.32534375,"end":61.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.367218750000006,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.76096875,"end":81.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.57096875,"end":85.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.68846875,"end":109.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.50409375000001,"end":104.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.70159375,"end":115.20284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.67534375000001,"end":116.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.90284375,"end":119.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.27784375,"end":122.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.06659375000001,"end":132.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.63471875000002,"end":153.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.03659375,"end":154.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.31471875,"end":160.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.15346875,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.99721875,"end":162.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.19971875000002,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.90846875,"end":168.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.06034375000002,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.65909375,"end":165.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.98346875000001,"end":173.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.11846875,"end":170.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.56971875000002,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.62034375000002,"end":170.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.48096875000002,"end":171.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.37534375,"end":176.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.21034375000002,"end":185.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.12971875000002,"end":178.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.50909375,"end":181.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.40346875,"end":181.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.97659375,"end":187.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.49534375000002,"end":188.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.98034375,"end":194.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.29159375,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.12659375,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.61159375000003,"end":201.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.10909375,"end":202.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.13846875000002,"end":207.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.54284375,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.14096875,"end":217.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.36409375000002,"end":218.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.95034375,"end":220.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.32534375,"end":223.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.38846875000002,"end":224.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.26159375,"end":237.54659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.91784375,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.49971875000003,"end":246.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.35096875000002,"end":248.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.75159375,"end":249.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.87784375,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.29534375000003,"end":253.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.10096875000002,"end":254.38784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.70846875,"end":256.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.32846875,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.39159375,"end":257.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.42096875000004,"end":259.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.50096875,"end":260.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.17596875000004,"end":260.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.52596875,"end":262.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.07846875,"end":275.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.34221875000003,"end":276.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.76409375000003,"end":278.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.95784375,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.43846875,"end":282.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.33284375,"end":289.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.63534375,"end":296.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.91284375000004,"end":298.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.08971875000003,"end":301.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.62096875000003,"end":303.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.30846875000003,"end":306.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.81846875,"end":311.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.40846875,"end":327.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.76034375,"end":335.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.02909375,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.56409375000004,"end":342.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.66096875,"end":343.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.96034375000005,"end":345.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.88409375000003,"end":360.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.02096875,"end":361.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.25284375,"end":363.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.24846875000003,"end":364.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.17221875,"end":367.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.75409375000004,"end":373.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.89659375,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.02721875000003,"end":375.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.06096875000003,"end":375.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.09471875,"end":392.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.79659375,"end":398.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.90534375000004,"end":404.22096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.45721875000004,"end":406.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.83659375,"end":412.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.50659375000004,"end":413.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.37971875000005,"end":417.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.46346875,"end":425.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.31471875000005,"end":432.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.58784375000005,"end":432.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.92534375,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.95909375,"end":437.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.68471875,"end":434.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.25784375,"end":452.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.73659375000005,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.85471875,"end":476.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.37846875,"end":478.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.55534375,"end":480.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.40659375,"end":492.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.18596875000003,"end":494.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.97471875,"end":496.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.69596875,"end":499.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.48034375000003,"end":501.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.16784375000003,"end":502.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.50096875,"end":504.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.98159375000006,"end":521.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.4053437499999,"end":521.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.87346875,"end":521.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.9578437499999,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.4809687500001,"end":522.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.97034375,"end":535.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.5378437500001,"end":539.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.0984687499999,"end":542.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.6084687499999,"end":544.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.05971875,"end":549.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.6159687500001,"end":554.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.64471875,"end":560.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.8715937500001,"end":573.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.89909375,"end":602.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.6372187500001,"end":603.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.54846875,"end":604.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.66221875,"end":605.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.53971875,"end":611.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.17596875,"end":611.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.27721875,"end":612.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.4922187500001,"end":629.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.5022187500001,"end":633.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.1259687500001,"end":639.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.9353437500001,"end":640.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.97721875,"end":641.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.0109687500001,"end":641.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.63534375,"end":642.5972187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.653,"end":3.388,"text":"謝謝主席有請王部長請王部長"},{"start":10.284,"end":35.918,"text":"部長其實從去年6月30號我們在道交條例修法不管是祭典有很多一個相關的法規修正之後當然到去年的年底你也覺得在營業駕駛的部分產生了一些很多的交通硬體的環境本來應該有停車的空間事實上盤點地方政府他們可能跟不上"},{"start":36.977,"end":61.474,"text":"那現在我們在針對這10個一千兩百塊罰款以下的來去做一個定義就是不要記點然後對不對不開放檢舉不開放檢舉不記點主要是這個部分那事實上我相信每位民意代表包括你們啦應該在過去這個將近大半年的期間啦"},{"start":62.401,"end":62.461,"text":"報告報告"},{"start":85.723,"end":115.003,"text":"那第二階段我們在行人入權的單位他們有一些想法但我覺得在公聽會我們也發覺大家在立場上面是激烈的一個辯論爭論都沒關係但是其實有一個最大的共識不管是哪一個團體都希望台灣的交通環境更好我覺得這是一個最大的共識所以這一次這個修法的過程中我們希望能夠凝聚最大的共識來去做一個修正但我先"},{"start":116.103,"end":134.377,"text":"請問一下,按一下這個因為520其實也快到了那現在已經公佈了接下來我們現在行政院秘書長李孟元秘書長要接任未來交通部長那我們現在是審這個其實雙方爭議還蠻大的這樣的一個條文"},{"start":138.76,"end":160.24,"text":"那這個部分我們也看到這個未來的部長特別說他也希望打造人本跟安全交通環境而且最重要是說他也要找你來請議我們現在大概他說了6天之後目前你們有沒有稍微談過有有一直在討論包括這次的修法因為他的秘書讓我都全程參與"},{"start":161.261,"end":182.323,"text":"所以在這一個今天這十個十大類別事實上也經過我們行政院秘書長所以這個是無縫接軌觀念無縫接軌喔是不是整個行政院都知道這樣的修法包括秘書長他也全部支持嘛所以才會經過行政院的一個確定嘛是"},{"start":183.164,"end":201.276,"text":"但是經過了我們立法院包括公聽會很多委員那個建議很多一個聲音我覺得違條這個部分你們在交接的部分一定要講清楚我個人個人也是覺得我們營業的價值真的要讓他們可以生存"},{"start":202.156,"end":220.05,"text":"但是一刀切的這個方式啊我真的看到了一些問題啊我贊成剛剛這個崑德昭偉啊他講的這個有一件事情的嚴重度他雖然放在同樣一個法條裡面可明明嚴重度就不一樣我就覺得說在隧道裡停車"},{"start":222.529,"end":249.253,"text":"我覺得一般隧道相對昏暗第二個一般的隧道因為公法的部分所以他車道其實就真的比較狹窄所以你在隧道裡停車跟在外面的圓環其他地方停車你要把它放在一起這個也也不用記點也不用這個甚至也不能檢舉我覺得像這個我認為比較嚴重我自己我認為比較嚴重第二個呢有一個是"},{"start":251.042,"end":274.778,"text":"停在人行道上面停在人行道上面也變成這個不開放檢舉然後基本上我覺得也不忌廉但這個東西就道理有一點點講不通你知道嗎我們一堆駕駛在移動的過程中在看到人群來的時候要過人行道的抱歉行人穿越道的時候搬馬線的時候"},{"start":276.397,"end":288.996,"text":"就等在那裡很小心很小心要距離幾公尺他才可以過我們對行政院傳證導師這麼敬畏的一個角度你只要稍微離他近一點嚴重開罰而且還寄好像聽說還寄兩點"},{"start":291.02,"end":306.199,"text":"結果乾脆我們現在修個法規說沒事你就把你的車停在人行道上面這個哪個事情比較嚴重哪個我離別人近一點哇那嚴重可是我乾脆把車停在行人車行道上面"},{"start":307.32,"end":335.07,"text":"不能檢舉也不用記點這個我發覺你們回去思考一下好不好我覺得這個邏輯上面有問題啦所以一刀切的部分我希望在中間有一些嚴重程度跟合理程度有問題的我覺得要把它拿掉大家雙方也可以接受嘛我覺得現在很多營業駕駛說你們不能害他你知道嗎所以說這個安全帽不戴"},{"start":336.19,"end":336.21,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":362.287,"end":381.618,"text":"我們交通部甚至未來的交通部在交接的過程中我覺得這真的要講清楚了部長你覺得呢因為真的有一些嚴重程度明顯不一樣你的說法怎麼樣我是覺得我想要尊重這個委員的討論但是我們這次120米是主要有法源"},{"start":382.518,"end":397.825,"text":"一個是道交條例九十二條一個是道路交通管理統一除了裁划基準的所謂違罪不法就是施以欠倒免疫計劃這個意思是說當你比如說違規停車警察來的時候他可以把你趕走他不開單"},{"start":398.945,"end":416.718,"text":"他大概用這種精神在看這個事。那當然就是說整個還是要有共識。那剛剛所提的包括戴安全帽要不要開民眾檢舉或是其他項目。現在有一個就是說我們跟警方大概討論了如果民眾打110"},{"start":418.499,"end":418.92,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":438.294,"end":463.001,"text":"目前的一個狀況就是你目前大概要處理就十大類別不該放檢舉那事實上這個數據問題後續有沒有一些配套的一個措施那就我們的112年的統計數據譬如說其中前面幾個你們現在所有的陳案的量體大概有80%到90%都是檢舉的案件那我在想"},{"start":463.661,"end":480.209,"text":"沒有檢舉之後我們警力這個剛剛有人問到底是負擔輕還是負擔重每一個人打110嘛不過我是覺得對於有一些重點的區塊你們是準備配套用科技執法來去替代有一個重點的位置還是怎麼樣警政署你們有什麼想法"},{"start":485.904,"end":504.54,"text":"提示對警察來講民眾檢舉負擔最重的是在違規臨停跟違規停車這部分案件是非常多但是對實際上這一個停車秩序的改善並沒有幫助因為我們現在停車空間的供需目前還沒有到完整的時候"},{"start":505.1,"end":505.42,"text":"提醒一下"},{"start":522.555,"end":542.748,"text":"如果確定修法以現在這個情況我認為在第一線遠景街道110不管相關的電話我覺得一定會有一陣子會增加很多你們要自己心理準備最後公路總局建議一下謝謝這個我們現在很多地方事實上是沒有人行道"},{"start":543.646,"end":560.384,"text":"好,這個也是駕駛人跟行人的共識啊。駕駛人也希望有人行道欸。他們這個沒有衝突。現在我發覺啊,行人的一個危機,最大的危機是全台灣的很多馬路,就我在桃園看到了。有超多的,連人行道都沒有啦。"},{"start":560.985,"end":582.779,"text":"稍後試行的也全都沒有所以上次我跟部長有講過啦我說要經費喔真的要盤點讓各縣市有一些部分但是要省道的部分快速道路當然不用講純粹車型的但是主要的一些我們比較老牌的省道台縣、台三縣這是台灣串接老城市的一個最重要的一個省道"},{"start":583.419,"end":599.514,"text":"你經過不斷經過了一個市區市區市區我是希望很多是地方政府的事情但是有時候我們在公路總區你要盤點台一線台三線這經過城鎮人家繁榮市區的這個部分我自己"},{"start":600.114,"end":628.78,"text":"我覺得交通部也要做一個盤點到底哪裡有沒有人行道到底哪裡我們自己省道台一、台三線經過城市的時候可以做標線型這個部分可以做到嗎?這個有在做現在400億裡面那個交通部是140億然後國土署260億他說都是居安內的那140億的部分很多都做我們省道的部分第一跟委員所提的在過去省道很多地方都沒有人行道但是省道"},{"start":629.5,"end":629.6,"text":"時間到了,謝謝你。"}]}},{"id":"151401","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151401","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4456fa8dc2306d93b7051d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94a2be613e28a423535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"10:18:46 - 10:28:45","影片長度":"00:09:59","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":599,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:28:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:18:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":299,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（10時18分）謝謝召委李昆澤委員，我們請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：何委員好。"],["何委員欣純：部長好。我們今天來談改善道交安全，我們就是要一起拚，我記得在上個會期我們一起共同努力通過了道路交通安全基本法，在這個上位法之下，事實上我們要面對很多挑戰，我用這一張我整理出來的圖來告訴大家，我們有好多好多的拼圖、法規必須要去修、必須要去整理、必須要去爬梳。我也很高興，我們在4月16號三讀通過了行人交通安全設施條例，我記得我有到內政委員會去參與討論跟發言，除了這個之外，我想就是今天道路交通管理處罰條例草案我們要進行修法，但是我要請部長看我整理的這些，事實上中央還有各地方政府所有交通管理的法規、自治條例、設計標準規範、處理細則、管理辦法等等，還很多。我記得去年也是在交通委員會，部長有跟我承諾，道路交通安全基本法三讀通過之後，我們要利用半年的時間來盤點，訂一個明確的時程來告訴國人說，對於臺灣的交通安全，我們要如何來爬梳，而且調整、修改清楚，明確而且合理化，讓安全能夠獲得保障。部長，這半年內你整理得完嗎？處理得完嗎？"],["王部長國材：現在時間點是7月1日，各單位所管的法令要做討論，我舉例來講，道路交通標誌標線設置規則在過去很多人說，好像死板板的，要怎麼訂？現在運研所已經有一個指引出來了。"],["何委員欣純：有一個指引嘛！包括各地方政府……"],["王部長國材：包括範例。"],["何委員欣純：各地方有不同型態、樣態的道路嘛，對不對？因為道路系統有太多不同的樣態跟規定。"],["王部長國材：這個是目前我們覺得最重要的，就是如果標誌、標線設置不好的話，但是過去在設置規則裡面是個案式的，大家不會湊起來，這個也在做。現在整個的討論我們是以7月1日大家把它修好作為目標。"],["何委員欣純：7月1日為基準點，對不對？7月1日之前應該……"],["黃司長運貴：7月1日回報我們哪些法令要修正。"],["何委員欣純：還在盤點而已啦！部長。"],["王部長國材：我們的部分應該很快啦！我們的部分現在已經……"],["何委員欣純：我要拜託部長，我覺得這個是持續性的，7月1日之前，我認為交通部應該更積極，除了盤點哪些法規應該要調整之外，我認為該調整要調整啦！不是只有盤點而已，不然我們的行人交通安全設施條例都已經三讀通過了，內政部針對下面的子法規也要跟著來修訂了，交通部也要同步跟上啊！"],["黃司長運貴：跟委員報告，有關道路標誌標線號誌設置規則，目前我們已經有修正部分的條文，正在做行政程序……"],["何委員欣純：那要跟地方政府溝通，因為各縣市的道路系統的差異跟樣態很多元。"],["黃司長運貴：我們在過程中有徵詢地方政府的相關意見。"],["何委員欣純：是，所以你們要盡力做，7月1日我希望不只是盤點，而是該調整的要跟著調整，這是第一點。","第二個，我來自臺中，我一點開交通部的官網，就跳出一個視窗，這個也是我們要求交通部做的，是提醒但也很傷痛，為什麼？因為在113年1月道路交通事故的統計裡面，臺中市是各縣市裡面的第一名，而這種第一名是非常不好的第一名，死傷人數是325人。我們可以看到，我們從去年一直在重視行人安全，到現在所有的宣導、工程、法規都在進行，但是我們的交通事故還是持續在攀升。部長，你認為為什麼？我覺得很擔心耶！"],["王部長國材：事實上各縣市表現不大一樣，像高雄市表現得非常好，去年下降五十幾個，臺中去年是表現比較差，整體在去年是死亡下降，但是件數還是增加。就像我剛才報告的，去年下半年是有一個比較顯著的成果，但是各縣市不一樣的部分，我們現在都是用我們的輔導專業小組下去輔導。"],["何委員欣純：這個就是我現在要跟你講的，以臺中為例，我上次有問過，紅綠燈路口在六都之中是臺中最多，但保護行人專用時相號誌的比例卻最低，這個是交通部的表格，上次我問的時候，交通部的官員回答我，不是所有的路口都一定要行人專用時相，我承認不是所有的路口都要，但是我們保護行人的專用時相號誌現在於法有據耶！道路交通標誌標線號誌設置規則中，第三目有講，行人特多必須使用行人專用時相的交叉路口是可以設置的、是要設置的。在剛三讀通過的行人交通安全設施條例第七條裡面也有講到，醫療院所、學校、機關、大眾運輸場站等行人密集場所周邊，是我們必須要做的行人友善區，那就應該做保護行人的專用時相號誌啊！","所以我就又盤點了，我叫助理自己去盤點，就我們目前看到的數據，臺中市只有130個路口有設置這樣的行人專用時相，我盤點後，發現光是臺中市，有醫院的、有學校的、在火車站周邊的、在捷運車站周邊的或是商圈的，總共就有534處，我算500個好了，表示有500個可能的重大路口、行人特別多的路口需要設置行人專用時相這樣的號誌，可是臺中市目前只有130個，所以我要爭取中央來支持，為什麼？部長，你支持嗎？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，我們現在4年400億可以補助，我個人非常支持設置行人專用時相，就是剛才所提到的這些，所以我覺得如果不夠的話，現在包括我們的部分、包括國土署的部分，我們都可以補助。"],["何委員欣純：是，接下來我就要跟你講這件事，你已經先講了，經費的運用要解決實際的問題、要彈性。我上次去內政委員會問過內政部林右昌部長，他告訴我，我們這一次400億編列的預算裡面，內政部跟交通部都是主管機關，交通部的部分，我認為要滾動式檢討，如果地方政府真的有需要，中央要全力支持，因為內政部長林右昌是跟我答應說：沒錯，我們內政部是滾動式檢討，彈性運用，只要地方政府願意提計畫，我們都願意支持。所以部長也是同樣的態度嗎？"],["王部長國材：支持、支持，非常支持。"],["何委員欣純：所以我就要拜託，行人的安全很重要。接下來就要討論，我們這次的修法除了要保障行人的安全外，還有什麼？還有違規記點的新制，我相信你也知道，這個是我從交通部爬梳出來的，我們的違規記點呈倍數成長，職業類別五倍數成長，非職業類別六倍數成長，在安全的前提之下，這些數字就是道安管理上的新挑戰。部長，你怎麼認為？"],["王部長國材：去年也是在立法院，大家覺得行人地獄要改，當然交通部當時的評估是覺得大家的建議也可以做，的確也發生很多因為我們的環境還沒整頓完，包括騎樓，包括路邊停車還沒整頓完的亂象，包括檢舉達人比較浮濫的檢舉，所以我們這次是比較系統性的，去年是臨時性的，現在已經系統性了，就用處罰條例第九十二條下授的相關規定，就1,200元……"],["何委員欣純：系統性的，從我剛剛第一頁開始講的，道安的基本法項下很多相關的法令，你們都要去盤點、去調整，包括安全的設施、設備，所以為什麼行人交通安全設施法已經先通過了，這個就是要先有法，而且要授權明定中央跟地方政府該做什麼事，這些事情，硬體設備、安全設備要先做好、先規範好，是不是？"],["王部長國材：是，目前是這樣。"],["何委員欣純：目前是這樣子嘛？"],["王部長國材：對，我們就是這樣在做。"],["何委員欣純：因為我時間到了，最後，我還是要告訴交通部，行人、用路人安全很重要，人、車、道，我覺得這相關的法規都要務實跟完善，我不希望造成社會更大的對立，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["何委員欣純：希望我們繼續再溝通，讓這個法能夠修得更完善，讓大家更安全，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，謝謝何委員。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員發言完畢。","現在請魯明哲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.35159375000000004,"end":3.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.37221875,"end":4.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.755343750000002,"end":10.324718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.36284375,"end":84.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.65159375,"end":24.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.04721875,"end":87.02159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.47721875,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.43659375,"end":105.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.79846875000001,"end":111.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.62534375000001,"end":116.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.29534375,"end":119.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.40471875,"end":124.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.50096875000001,"end":127.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.14596875,"end":133.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.63534375,"end":129.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.79909375,"end":144.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.36846875,"end":136.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.76846875,"end":141.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.90284375000002,"end":161.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.04596875000001,"end":147.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.83284375000002,"end":162.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.59221875,"end":161.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.09846875000002,"end":162.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.25034375,"end":164.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.97596875000002,"end":166.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.62096875,"end":168.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.06784375,"end":174.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.99534375000002,"end":175.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.42971875,"end":175.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.80096875,"end":188.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.16596875000002,"end":189.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.65534375000001,"end":191.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.74784375000002,"end":204.25221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.37034375000002,"end":215.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.78221875000003,"end":221.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.57096875000002,"end":217.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.34659375,"end":224.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.90721875000003,"end":249.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.21284375000002,"end":240.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.56721875000002,"end":240.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.82034375,"end":240.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.23659375000003,"end":256.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.58159375,"end":262.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.63971875000004,"end":273.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.13159375000004,"end":274.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.41846875000005,"end":275.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.53221875,"end":282.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.19346875,"end":283.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.30721875,"end":303.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.22596875,"end":292.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.17346875000004,"end":305.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.91971875,"end":309.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.10909375,"end":328.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.70534375,"end":359.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.17284375,"end":334.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.47659375,"end":334.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.51034375,"end":334.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.07596875,"end":361.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.20221875000004,"end":380.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.45659375,"end":392.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.62784375,"end":394.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.60221875,"end":395.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.09159375,"end":396.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.62721875,"end":402.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.29721875,"end":407.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.08534375000005,"end":410.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.43096875000003,"end":411.00471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.27471875000003,"end":412.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.84846875000005,"end":413.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.13096875,"end":416.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.25284375,"end":433.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.02471875000003,"end":418.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.83659375,"end":433.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.87034375,"end":433.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.92096875000004,"end":433.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.95471875000004,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.97159375,"end":434.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.98846875000004,"end":434.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.17409375000005,"end":437.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.53221875,"end":437.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.71784375000004,"end":437.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.78534375000004,"end":455.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.80221875,"end":437.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.75534375,"end":441.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.48284375000003,"end":472.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.29221875,"end":461.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.21034375000005,"end":473.79659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.71221875000003,"end":500.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.55596875000003,"end":474.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.89346875,"end":474.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.76284375000006,"end":501.67409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.99471875000006,"end":509.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.35284375000003,"end":505.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.20909375,"end":507.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.57159375000003,"end":522.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.8015937499999,"end":530.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.58096875,"end":546.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.63346875,"end":569.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.7465937500001,"end":551.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.79284375,"end":551.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.06659375,"end":556.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.6772187500001,"end":563.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.9253437500001,"end":568.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.37659375,"end":569.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.95034375,"end":596.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.61221875,"end":575.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.72159375,"end":575.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.3628437500001,"end":577.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.4765937500001,"end":577.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.12909375,"end":588.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.23409375,"end":591.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.0053437500001,"end":596.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.33846875,"end":598.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.5322187500001,"end":599.9709687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.549,"end":1.769,"text":"道路交通安全基本法"},{"start":24.775,"end":50.849,"text":"那在這個上位法之下呢事實上我們要面對很多挑戰因為呢我在把這一張我做的整理出來的這個圖來告訴大家我們有好多好多的拼圖法規必須要去修必須要去整理必須要去爬書那我也很高興呢我們在4月16號那三讀通過了這個行政交通安全設施條例那我記得我也有到內政委員會去參與討論跟發言"},{"start":53.51,"end":70.909,"text":"除了這個之外呢我想就是今天的道路交通管理處罰條例的草案我們要進行修法但是我要請部長你看我整理了這些事實上我們中央還有地方各地方政府他所有的交通管理的法規自治條例"},{"start":71.87,"end":98.492,"text":"或者是設計標準規範還有處理細則管理辦法等等還很多所以我記得上次去年在也是在交通委員會部長有跟我承諾我們呢這個道路交通安全基本法三讀通過之後我們要利用半年的時間來盤點那定一個明確的時程來告訴國人說我們如何對台灣的交通安全能夠的把它"},{"start":99.733,"end":127.004,"text":"而且調整、修改、清除、明確而且合理化讓安全能夠獲得保障。部長這半年內你整理了完嗎?處理了完嗎?現在時間點是7月1號各單位所管的法令要做一個討論。我舉例來講就是說道路交通標註標註設置規則在過去很多人說好像死板板的要怎麼定那我們現在一年手已經有一個這一個叫什麼?"},{"start":128.188,"end":128.969,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":145.303,"end":163.422,"text":"這個是目前我們覺得最重要啦就是標記標線如果設置如果不好的話但是過去在這個設置規則裡面是個案式的大家不會錯起來這個也在做現在大概整個在討論是我們現在是以7月1號大家把它修好7月1號為基準點嘛對不對7月1號之前應該還在盤點而已啦部長"},{"start":169.107,"end":175.131,"text":"那7月1號他那個我們的部門應該很快我們部門現在已經我要拜託部長啦我覺得這個是持續性的我們7月1號之前我認為交通部應該更積極除了盤點哪些法規應該要調整之外那我認為該調整要調整啦"},{"start":189.705,"end":204.003,"text":"不是只有盤點而已啊不然我們的行政交通安全設施條例都已經三度通過了那呢內政部呢針對下面的執法官也要跟個人來修訂了那所以我們交通部也要同步跟上啊"},{"start":204.363,"end":224.438,"text":"好跟委員報告現在有關那個道路交通標誌標記號誌設置規則目前我們已經有修正部分的條文正在做行政程序要跟地方政府溝通因為我們各縣市的這個道路系統他的差異跟樣態很多元是我們在過程中有徵詢地方政府的相關意見"},{"start":224.998,"end":248.721,"text":"是。所以我們要盡力做。那7月1號我希望不只是盤點而是該調整的要跟著調整。好。這第一點。第二個我呢來自台中我一點開我們交通部的官網我們就跳出一個視窗。這個也是我們要求交通部做是提醒但是也很傷痛。為什麼?因為呢我們113年1月的道路交通事故的統計裡面"},{"start":250.302,"end":272.109,"text":"我們台中市是各縣市裡面的第一名而這種第一名是非常不好的第一名十三人數我們325我們可以看到說我們從去年一直在重視行人安全到現在結果所有的宣導、工程、法規都在進行但是我們的交通事故還是持續在攀升部長你認為為什麼我覺得很擔心"},{"start":276.45,"end":276.47,"text":"市長。"},{"start":297.839,"end":305.679,"text":"但是各縣市不一樣部分我們現在都是用我們的福島福島專業小路下這個就是我現在跟你講的來以台中為例"},{"start":306.98,"end":327.934,"text":"我上次有問過紅綠燈的路口六都之中台中最多那保護行人專用的十項號誌的比例卻最低這個是你們交通部的一個表格那上次我問的時候交通部的官員回答我啊不是所有的這個路口都一定要這個行人專用十項這個我承認不是所有的路口都要但是"},{"start":328.755,"end":354.554,"text":"但是我們保護行人的專用的10項號誌現在與法有據欸我們道路交通標誌標線號誌的設置規則裡面他的第三目他有講啊行人特多的時候必須使用行人專用的10項的交他入口是可以設置的喔是要設置的喔我們現在剛三讀通過了行人交通安全設施條例裡面在第七條裡面也有講到醫療院所學校機關大眾運輸廠商等"},{"start":358.837,"end":380.147,"text":"行人密集場所周邊是我們的必須要做的友善行人區行人友善區那就應該做保護行人的專用實相號誌啊那下一頁我就又盤點了我叫助理自己去盤點我們目前看到的數據上臺中市只有一百三十個入口有用這樣子的行人專用實相的設置"},{"start":381.508,"end":406.577,"text":"我盤點我們光是台中市啊有醫院的啦有學校的啦在火車站周邊的啦在捷運車站周邊的或是商圈的總共就有534處我跟你猜這五百好了啦有500個可能的重大路口行人特別多的路口需要設置行人專用實相的這樣的號誌可是我們台中市目前只有130個"},{"start":408.178,"end":433.106,"text":"那所以呢我要爭取中央來支持。為什麼?市長你支持嗎?我跟委員報告,我們現在4年400億可以補助喔。所以我就覺得他們,我個人非常支持這個新聞專務實相。就是剛才所提到的這些,所以我覺得若不夠的話我們現在包括我們的部分包括這個國土署的部分都可以,我們都可以補助。"},{"start":433.906,"end":455.159,"text":"是。接下來我就要跟你講這件事你已經先講了喔。經費的運用要解決實際的問題要彈性我上次去內政委員會問過內政部林佑昌部長他告訴我我們這一次400億的這個編列的預算裡面內政部跟交通部都是主管機關那交通部的部分我也認為要"},{"start":456.873,"end":474.396,"text":"滾動式檢討。如果地方政府真的有需要,我們中央要全力支持。因為內政部長林佑昌是跟我答應說,沒錯,我們的內政部是滾動式檢討、彈性運用,只要地方政府願意提計劃,我們都願意支持。所以部長也是同樣的態度嗎?支持,支持,非常支持。"},{"start":475.077,"end":492.712,"text":"所以我就要拜託行人的安全很重要那接下來就要討論了我們這一次的修法出來要保障行人的安全那還有什麼我們這個違規祭典的新制這個我相信你也知道這個是我從交通部爬書出來的我們違規祭典的這個倍數成長職業類別的五倍數的成長非職業類別的六倍數的成長"},{"start":500.839,"end":516.76,"text":"在安全的前提之下這些數字我想就是我們道安管理上的新挑戰嗎?部長那你怎麼認為?我想這樣齁在去年的確我們也是在立法院大家覺得新人第一要改啊那當然"},{"start":517.401,"end":539.374,"text":"交通部當時的評估、大家的建議我們覺得也可以做。那的確也發生很多因為我們的環境還沒有整頓完,包括路邊停車還沒整頓完的很多亂象還包括檢舉達人非常比較腐爛的檢舉所以我們這一次是比較系統性的去年是臨時性的現在已經系統性的"},{"start":540.234,"end":568.848,"text":"就用我們從處罰條例九十二條下售的這些相關規定就用一千兩百元系統性的從我們剛剛我剛剛第一頁開始講的啊道安的這個基本法向下很多的相關的法令我們都要去盤點要去調整啊所以我們的安全的設施設備所以為什麼我們這個行人的道路安全設施設備法已經先通過了吧這個就是要先有法而且要授權民定中央跟地方政府該做什麼事對"},{"start":570.029,"end":595.729,"text":"那這些事情一理設備安全設備要先做好先規範好目前是這樣子吧所以我最後檢討時間到了我還是希望交通部我們行人用路人安全很重要那人車道我覺得這個相關的法規都要務實跟完善我不希望造成社會更大的對立好不好希望我們繼續再溝通讓這個法能夠修得更完善讓大家更安全謝謝"},{"start":599.62,"end":599.641,"text":"報告。"}]}},{"id":"151400","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151400","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4457f1654fde96f5ab251d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94c2d5238c042452c75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"10:06:20 - 10:18:25","影片長度":"00:12:05","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-7"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":725,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:18:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:06:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":218,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（10時6分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早。部長，首先第一個題目我想來討論一下海線鐵路雙軌化，今年年初已經核定了嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：本席想利用質詢的機會再一次就教交通部，接下來的程序是會進入綜規跟細部設計，這個時程的預計狀況大概是如何？"],["王部長國材：我先簡單講一下，就是海線雙軌核定要跟現在的海線高架化做一個整合，所以他們大概把這個部分做一個討論，後續海線過了以後就是做綜合規劃，時程部分我請局長來跟你報告。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，一般鐵路的綜規作業大概需要15到18個月左右，目前因為剛核定，我們正在做招標的準備作業，所以確切的期程一旦確定會跟委員報告。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我想部長、局長都很清楚，本席長期對於海線雙軌化其實非常地關注，而且過去8年我們不知道開過多少次會議，這個事情的重要，不是只有本席選區的問題，海線的雙軌化是讓整個臺鐵的運量，過去山線都是爆滿的，火車非常地壅塞，但是海線卻一車難求，所以長期以來我們一直很希望海線的火車能夠增加，但礙於很多段的單軌，所以海線的鐵路班次一直沒有辦法增加，所以歸根究柢、釜底抽薪，一定要快速地完成海線鐵路的雙軌化。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：在這麼多年來的爭取、努力，你們也完成了可行性評估，本席也是按照程序，不會提特別條例去要求你們多久之內要做好，沒有，本席只是不斷地督促、要求，在做為一位立法委員的權力底下去要求你們要儘速、要趕快，你們不快，本席就罵；你們快，我就給你們鼓勵。所以現在總算可行性評估完成，而且馬上要進入綜規，但我們又卡到了高架化的問題，也就是本席過去在林部長擔任林市長的時代，我們所提的海線鐵路雙軌高架是一個案子，後來在幾年前，本席覺得雙軌化跟高架化如果在同一個案子的情況底下，因為高架化依照規定涉及地方政府要部分負擔，地方政府如果不願意出這個錢，那高架化就會一直卡住，所以我們把它切開來，雙軌歸雙軌、雙軌高架歸雙軌高架，也因為如此，我們才得以在這個時間點完成雙軌化的評估。","但現在又面臨到捷運藍線會穿過臺鐵，所以勢必有一段可能會涉及到高架，但是只要涉及到高架，又要地方政府出錢，因此本席的結論是，如果臺中市政府這麼多年來還是不願意出錢，那本席站在海線鄉親的立場，我會要求說雙軌化一定不能被耽擱啦！就是雙軌化不能因為一直等待沒有效率的地方政府，或者遲不出錢的地方政府、不重視海線雙軌高架的地方政府，結果讓我們的雙軌化受到耽擱，這件事情是本席不能夠接受的。所以你們一定要有一個時間跟地方政府做最有效率的溝通，要做不要做一句話，如果不做，我們雙軌不能停，不能行政院通過了雙軌，就為了等地方政府而一拖再拖，這個是鄉親不能夠接受的。如果地方政府堅持不願意出這個錢，我們的雙軌化不能被耽擱、被影響，這樣有沒有問題？"],["王部長國材：我們過去的雙軌的確被臺中海線的高架還有大慶─烏日耽擱一段時間，現在我們覺得沒辦法等，所以直接核定雙軌，原來它是用山手線，現在會分大慶─烏日，還有包括海線，另外就是……"],["蔡委員其昌：彩虹線，切三個段，一案變三案。"],["王部長國材：我們現在看起來，大慶─烏日跟海線應該都沒有問題，但是的確臺中市政府提到要中央全額負擔，因為包括高雄、包括北部，幾乎都按照現在的遊戲規則在走，所以我們是期待趕快確定，確定以後，剛才談到不管跟藍線的介面，或是跟雙軌的介面就可以趕快建立起來。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長，目前如果中央全額負擔，大概全臺灣有多少縣市等著中央全額負擔的高架化？"],["王部長國材：這個很多。"],["蔡委員其昌：很多，你有沒有算過這個預算大概幾兆或者幾千億？"],["王部長國材：現在各個地方非常多，有的是高架，有的是地下，比如說桃園，它也要負擔很多錢，嘉義現在在做也要付錢。"],["蔡委員其昌：那個叫立體化。"],["王部長國材：對，都是立體化，包括嘉義現在在施工，那每個都回到不要出錢。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以這個沒有政黨考量嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，沒有，就一致。"],["蔡委員其昌：嘉義是嘉義縣還是嘉義市？"],["王部長國材：兩個都有，嘉義市在施工，嘉義縣在……"],["蔡委員其昌：都有嘛！所以不會因為嘉義縣是民進黨執政，你就同意嘛！"],["王部長國材：不會。那高雄要哭……"],["蔡委員其昌：所以這個一定要對外說明清楚，就是因為預算必須要合理化，對於每一個縣市政府要立體化，就是高架或地下，它要進行專業、可行，甚至未來營運效率的評估，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以我們希望中央、地方分別來負擔嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：這個也是馬總統時代通過的辦法嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：我想這個要對外說明清楚，所以本席再一次強調，海線的鐵路雙軌化不能因為地方政府在高架化的問題上不出錢，而導致雙軌化受到延誤，這個我想我再一次強調。這個沒有問題啦？"],["王部長國材：好，我們現在都分開個別計畫在走。"],["蔡委員其昌：我也贊成雙軌高架，我不是反對，我很贊成，但是不可以因為一個地方政府遲不出錢，奮死抵抗，我們的雙軌化就因為這樣被耽擱，這個不行。"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["蔡委員其昌：第二個問題，昨天我有提到觀光的問題，部長，疫情前我們Inbound的高峰是1,000萬對不對？"],["王部長國材：接近1,200萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：不好意思，超過1,000萬，是1,200萬嘛！"],["王部長國材：1,187萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：那去年是多少？"],["王部長國材：648萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：那今年預估多少？"],["王部長國材：現在就以1,000萬為目標。"],["蔡委員其昌：1到4月覺得狀況好不好？"],["周署長永暉：我們第一季是195萬，將近200萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：比去年成長多少？"],["周署長永暉：相對去年的話，大概已經恢復到七成了。"],["蔡委員其昌：比去年的第一季成長？"],["周署長永暉：沒錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為你的目標要1,000萬，所以你要按季達標。"],["王部長國材：第一季如果200萬，乘以四就800萬，我們覺得這是往上升的，所以我們的目標就是1,000萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：我覺得你要按季去追蹤，不然等到最後12月到了，才發現還差很遠，那時候你已經沒有方法了，但按季檢討，你就可以發現這個趨勢對不對，我們還可以用什麼方法，因為今年到現在才4月，換言之，你還有好幾個月可以想辦法。"],["周署長永暉：我們是跟2019年比。"],["蔡委員其昌：Outbound的話我們今年成長多少？大家都在講現在旅遊型態改變了，觀光型態改變了，大家都愛出國，大家甚至批評說比較窮的人出國，臺灣比較貴，所以有錢留在臺灣，沒錢的人出國。"],["周署長永暉：2019年是1,700萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：2019年是1,700萬出國，那去年呢？"],["周署長永暉：去年是1,100萬。"],["蔡委員其昌：數字對不對？"],["周署長永暉：我們都按照移民署的資料。"],["蔡委員其昌：Outbound的數字是不是很明顯的上升？還是只是大家感覺機場人很多，所以大家就這樣說？"],["周署長永暉：相對去年是成長。"],["蔡委員其昌：第一季也很明顯的成長，對不對？"],["周署長永暉：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，所以旅遊型態真的在改變。我今天就先姑且不論這幾年以來長期的問題，像缺工等等的問題，部長或署長有沒有想過，今年用什麼方式讓旅客可以增加？時間到了是嗎？這個問題回答完就好。"],["周署長永暉：我們提供書面資料，因為我們現在是要五路齊發，我們確實也需要增加點、增加推廣會、增加露出，包含戶外的、室內的，還有社群。"],["蔡委員其昌：我提供一個啦！我覺得還是要有亮點，我隨便舉一個例子，大巨蛋完工了，大巨蛋是一個為棒球或者表演成立的建築物，它一開始的出發點絕對不是為了臺灣的觀光，但是因為這個建築物的完成，你看我們職棒的統計數據就可以發現，很多人來大巨蛋看球，除了球迷之外，還有第二種人是來觀光的，他把大巨蛋視為觀光景點，他來體驗一下，哎呦！坐在一個室內棒球場看棒球，是他這一輩子沒有過的體驗，所以他的觀光概念大過於看球賽的輸贏。這個叫什麼？這個就是我講的觀光要從這裡做起。杜董事長也有來，你看，臺鐵公司化之後，臺鐵開始跟民間合作，譬如說跟雄獅旅遊去做鳴日號列車，鳴日號到今天為止都還一票難求，對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：一票難求為什麼不複製？我的意思是，交通部底下，不要講到行政院、不要講政府，光交通部底下，其實有很多的商機都在我們自己部裡面的管轄範圍，觀光不可以靠觀光署一個人，必須要統合。"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["蔡委員其昌：觀光資源應該是我抓到了重點，然後我把它放大，觀光如果是每年編列預算要去蓋什麼，那怎麼可能蓋的了呢？你一個都蓋不了啦！但是你必須要抓到亮點，再透過行銷把它放大，變成它的效益會更高。本席認為這個才是重點，對不對？"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以像鐵路，應該請杜董事長趕快看臺鐵公司還有什麼資產可以跟觀光做連結，臺鐵本身的目的是交通、是運輸，可是現在不能這樣來思考這個問題了，好不好？"],["王部長國材：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["蔡委員其昌：不好意思，主席，耽誤了很多時間，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：謝謝蔡委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員發言完畢，蔡委員也是職棒聯盟的會長，也來這邊做置入的行銷。","現在請何欣純委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 31案；二、審查行政院函請審議\n「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.9334687500000003,"end":5.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.66721875,"end":6.629093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.05034375,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.084093750000001,"end":11.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.15159375,"end":11.489093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.489093750000002,"end":11.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.657843750000001,"end":20.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.78721875,"end":20.871593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.22596875,"end":23.301593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.04846875,"end":23.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.301593750000002,"end":23.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.31846875,"end":35.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.52096875,"end":23.672843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.73846875,"end":37.088468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.90284375,"end":41.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.42534375,"end":46.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.91409375,"end":46.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.72409375,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.55909375,"end":49.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.96409375,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.11534375,"end":54.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.13221875,"end":54.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.65534375,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.16159375,"end":68.00346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.00346875000001,"end":68.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.67846875000001,"end":79.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.69784375,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":100.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.96159375,"end":93.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.11346875000001,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.34096875,"end":95.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.37471875,"end":95.42534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.40346875,"end":106.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.15784375000001,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.81159375,"end":119.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.80971875,"end":131.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.82534375,"end":127.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.12471875,"end":129.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.16659375,"end":143.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.38596875000002,"end":131.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.28409375,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.05909375000002,"end":146.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.37971875,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.04596875000001,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.08346875,"end":154.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.62284375000002,"end":156.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.74909375000001,"end":162.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.73971875,"end":166.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.21596875,"end":180.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.02034375000002,"end":176.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.27346875,"end":176.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.86346875,"end":182.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.31471875000003,"end":182.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.71971875,"end":184.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.62221875,"end":186.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.44471875000002,"end":188.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.87909375,"end":189.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.28409375,"end":191.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.66346875000002,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.10221875000002,"end":195.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.44346875000002,"end":197.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.90721875,"end":201.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.17659375000002,"end":209.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.87159375000002,"end":209.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.90534375000001,"end":212.68971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.93909375,"end":210.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.19596875000002,"end":216.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.68909375,"end":217.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.33034375000003,"end":218.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.35534375,"end":219.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.38909375,"end":222.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.86534375000002,"end":227.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.28659375,"end":227.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.33721875,"end":233.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.35409375,"end":227.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.82659375,"end":227.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.88471875000002,"end":234.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.03659375,"end":237.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.52534375000002,"end":239.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.43659375000001,"end":244.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.78596875000002,"end":250.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.38846875000002,"end":250.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.72159375,"end":254.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.69159375,"end":255.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.97409375,"end":256.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.51409375000003,"end":262.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.67346875000004,"end":267.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.80346875000004,"end":282.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.77346875,"end":270.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.82409375000003,"end":270.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.97596875,"end":271.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.27409375,"end":283.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.27784375000005,"end":293.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.97659375,"end":306.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.90846875,"end":298.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.02596875,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.16034375000004,"end":308.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.10096875,"end":308.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.59034375000005,"end":314.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.13784375,"end":317.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.43284375,"end":319.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.94721875000005,"end":322.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.95096875,"end":323.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.25471875,"end":324.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.46971875,"end":332.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.43471875,"end":332.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.75534375,"end":335.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.05471875,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.82659375000003,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.39096875,"end":342.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.59346875,"end":342.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.76221875000005,"end":345.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.86346875000004,"end":343.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.69846875,"end":345.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.74909375000004,"end":345.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.78284375000004,"end":345.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.93471875,"end":347.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.62659375000004,"end":348.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.80346875000004,"end":351.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.69784375,"end":355.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.08096875,"end":355.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.26659375,"end":356.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.41846875000005,"end":358.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.93721875,"end":359.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":359.58659375,"end":360.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.14346875,"end":365.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.56034375,"end":369.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.22221875,"end":369.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.52596875,"end":381.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.82909375,"end":374.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.99721875,"end":378.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.27096875,"end":381.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.52409375,"end":386.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.14346875,"end":398.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.26909375,"end":393.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.19659375000003,"end":400.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.98534375,"end":402.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":402.51659375,"end":402.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.70221875000004,"end":404.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.76096875,"end":408.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.75596875,"end":411.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.32534375,"end":411.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.54471875,"end":414.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.80596875000003,"end":415.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.45971875000004,"end":420.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.11284375,"end":425.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":425.88846875,"end":426.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.98971875,"end":426.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":427.10346875000005,"end":429.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.21284375000005,"end":431.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.62596875,"end":431.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.11534375,"end":432.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.92534375,"end":434.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.69721875000005,"end":435.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.94596875,"end":436.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.14846875,"end":437.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.03846875000005,"end":440.04659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.57409375000003,"end":440.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.07596875,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.96159375,"end":448.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.14659375,"end":449.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.96909375,"end":454.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.12096875000003,"end":451.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.71971875,"end":456.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.75284375,"end":460.29659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.06034375,"end":464.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.92096875000004,"end":461.56221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.56221875000006,"end":462.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.11034375,"end":464.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.39721875000004,"end":466.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.41409375,"end":464.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.81471875000005,"end":466.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.67534375,"end":467.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.14784375000005,"end":467.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.18159375000005,"end":467.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.70471875000004,"end":467.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.31221875000006,"end":473.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.80159375000005,"end":469.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.08846875,"end":469.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.45909375,"end":481.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.77971875000003,"end":474.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.33596875,"end":478.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.42846875000004,"end":480.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.44096875,"end":499.98659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":483.60096875000005,"end":484.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.65534375000004,"end":486.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.73909375000005,"end":490.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.17659375000005,"end":500.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.59409375,"end":501.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.97784375000003,"end":506.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.73659375000005,"end":511.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.15784375000004,"end":511.76534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.76534375000006,"end":511.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.81596875,"end":520.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.2665937500001,"end":517.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":517.6884687500001,"end":517.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.2534687500001,"end":522.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.3715937500001,"end":520.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.6415937500001,"end":520.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.8272187499999,"end":520.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.3459687500001,"end":522.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.8015937499999,"end":523.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.95346875,"end":524.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.35409375,"end":524.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.92784375,"end":525.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.0290937500001,"end":526.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.7122187500001,"end":527.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.8640937499999,"end":528.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.8172187499999,"end":530.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.85096875,"end":532.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.53846875,"end":533.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.0278437500001,"end":533.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.97284375,"end":534.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.0234687500001,"end":534.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.10346875,"end":535.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.1203437500001,"end":536.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.1372187500001,"end":536.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.89221875,"end":537.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.47846875,"end":540.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.12784375,"end":545.3972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.48159375,"end":548.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.18596875,"end":553.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.24471875,"end":550.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.75034375,"end":554.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.0203437499999,"end":555.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.48846875,"end":556.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.28159375,"end":558.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.4753437500001,"end":561.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.62659375,"end":562.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.9597187500001,"end":567.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.55409375,"end":572.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.9709687500001,"end":575.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.74284375,"end":585.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.66221875,"end":578.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.2647187499999,"end":584.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.7790937500001,"end":591.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.42784375,"end":598.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.17784375,"end":599.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.31284375,"end":602.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.14346875,"end":605.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.53971875,"end":606.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.67034375,"end":607.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.88534375,"end":609.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.45471875,"end":609.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.77534375,"end":614.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.7922187500001,"end":609.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.92221875,"end":617.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.5378437500001,"end":617.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.79096875,"end":628.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.3334687500001,"end":629.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.43471875,"end":633.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.4678437499999,"end":635.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.06659375,"end":636.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.48846875,"end":639.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.6059687500001,"end":641.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.76596875,"end":644.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.92596875,"end":648.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.82409375,"end":657.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":652.21596875,"end":652.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.23284375,"end":653.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.41346875,"end":657.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.9197187500001,"end":666.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.4597187500001,"end":658.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.5947187500001,"end":658.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.25159375,"end":671.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.62221875,"end":676.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.97596875,"end":676.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.1953437500001,"end":677.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.81534375,"end":679.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.8403437500001,"end":681.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.71346875,"end":684.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":684.7509687500001,"end":685.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.4597187500001,"end":691.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.6359687500001,"end":694.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.7747187500001,"end":698.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.01034375,"end":701.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.0647187500001,"end":704.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.56221875,"end":705.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.0303437500002,"end":708.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.59534375,"end":710.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.43471875,"end":710.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.46846875,"end":712.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.55284375,"end":710.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.6284687500001,"end":716.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.59409375,"end":716.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.1003437500001,"end":717.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.9609687500001,"end":724.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":718.0959687500001,"end":718.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.0365937500001,"end":720.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.15471875,"end":721.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.97721875,"end":722.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.20909375,"end":724.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.6940937500001,"end":725.36909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.809,"end":5.096,"text":"謝謝主席請部長請王部長"},{"start":11.955,"end":35.008,"text":"部長早部長那個首先第一個題目我想來討論一下那個我們海線的鐵路的這個雙軌化那今年年初已經核定了嘛那本席想說利用質詢這個機會再一次來就交交通部接下來的程序是我們會進入這個中規跟西部設計那這個時程大概"},{"start":35.948,"end":53.962,"text":"預計的狀況大概我現在簡單講一下就是說海線雙軌核定但是我們要跟現在的這個海線高價化做一個整合對對對所以他們大概把這一個東西做一個討論對那後續這個海線過以後就是做綜合規施程是不是我請局長來"},{"start":55.284,"end":67.923,"text":"跟委員報告一般我們鐵路的這個中規作業大概需要15到18個月左右那目前因為剛合定我們正在做招標的準備作業所以確確的期程一旦確定會跟委員報告"},{"start":68.752,"end":84.937,"text":"因為我想部長、局長都很清楚本席長期對於海線的雙軌化其實非常的關注而且過去8年我們不斷不知道開過多少次會議那這個事情的重要不只是只有本席選區的問題海線的雙軌化是讓整個台鐵的運量過去山線都是爆滿的"},{"start":90.279,"end":90.299,"text":"報告"},{"start":113.112,"end":130.508,"text":"所以這麼多年來的爭取努力我們也完成了可行性評估本席也是按照程序不會提特別條例要求你們多少之內要做好沒有那本席不斷的只是督促要求做一個立法委員的這個權利底下要求你們要盡速要趕快"},{"start":131.429,"end":154.002,"text":"那你們不快本席就罵你們快我就給你們鼓勵所以現在總算已經可行評估做完完成而且馬上要進入中規但我們又卡到了一個高價化的問題也就是本席過去本來在林部長擔任林市長的時代我們所提的是海線是鐵路雙軌高架是一個案子"},{"start":154.682,"end":173.952,"text":"後來在幾年前本席覺得這個雙軌化跟高價化如果在同一個案子的情況底下因為高價化依照規定涉及地方政府要部分負擔所以也因為地方政府如果不願意出這個錢那高價化就會一直卡住所以我們把它切開來雙軌歸雙軌雙軌高價歸雙軌高價所以也因為如此我們才可以得以在這個時間點完成雙軌化的評估"},{"start":182.778,"end":184.289,"text":"但現在又面臨到捷運南線"},{"start":186.02,"end":212.402,"text":"會穿過台鐵所以我們勢必有一段他可能會涉及到高價但是這個只要涉及到高價又要地方政府出錢所以本席的結論是如果台中市政府這麼多年來他還是不願意出錢那本席會要求站在海線鄉親的立場我會要求說雙軌化你一定不能被耽擱啦就雙軌化不能因為一直等待"},{"start":213.243,"end":235.439,"text":"沒有效率的地方政府或者持不出錢的這個地方政府不重視這個海線雙軌高架的地方政府結果讓我們的雙軌化受到耽擱這件事是本席不能夠接受的所以你們一定要有一個時間跟地方政府做最有效率的溝通要走也要走一個月啦啊如果不走我們雙軌不能停不能雙軌"},{"start":238.584,"end":249.453,"text":"立法院行政院通過了就為了等地方政府一拖再拖這個是鄉親不能夠接受的所以如果地方政府堅持不願意出這個錢"},{"start":251.769,"end":271.008,"text":"我們的雙軌化不能被耽擱影響是這樣有沒有問題市長?市長我剛剛跟蔡委員長報告的確這個我們過去的雙軌的確被台中的海線的高架還有大清烏日這個所耽擱一段時間那現在我們覺得沒辦法等所以直接這個核定這個雙軌"},{"start":272.389,"end":297.621,"text":"那現在原來他是用三手線現在會分大清屋次還有包括海線還有這個另外就是彩虹線切三個段一岸變三岸我們現在看起來就是說現在問題應該大清屋次跟海線這個應該都沒有問題但是的確台中市政府提到要中央簽了負擔因為這個包括高雄包括北部幾乎都按照現在遊戲規則在走"},{"start":299.002,"end":317.495,"text":"所以我們是期待就是說趕快確定啦確定以後就是可以剛才談到了不管跟藍線的界面跟這個雙軌的界面就可以趕快建立起來這樣部長現在目前啊如果中央全額負擔大概全台灣有多少縣市等著中央全額負擔的高價化這個這個很多"},{"start":320.037,"end":347.669,"text":"很多你有沒有算過這個預算大概幾兆或者幾千億現在那個各個地方非常多比如說有的是高價有的是這個地下比如說桃園他要負擔很多錢嘉義現在做也要後遣那個叫立體化對對那個都是立體化這個部分是大家都包括嘉義現在在施工那每個都回到說不要出錢對所以這個沒有政黨考量嗎對沒有就一致嘉義市嘉義縣還嘉義市"},{"start":349.89,"end":377.264,"text":"兩個都有所以不會因為嘉義縣是民進黨執政所以你就同意嘛不會嘛所以這個一定要對外說明清楚啊就是因為我們必須要這個預算必須要合理化啦地方政府對於每一個縣市政府他要立體化就是高價或地下他要進行專業可行甚至未來營運的效率的評估嘛對不對所以我們希望中央地方分別來負擔嘛"},{"start":378.385,"end":403.975,"text":"那這個也是馬總統時代通過的辦法嘛是是好所以呢我想這個要對外說明清楚所以本席還再一次強調海線的鐵路這個雙軌化不能因為地方政府不出錢在高價化問題上不出錢而導致雙軌化受到延誤這個我想我再一次強調好這個沒有問題啦好我們現在都分開個別就要再走對對就是我也贊成雙軌高價啦我不是反對我很贊成"},{"start":404.855,"end":424.28,"text":"但是不可以因為一個地方政府他持不出錢這個憤死抵抗所以我們的雙軌化就因為這樣被耽擱了這個不行好那第二個問題我想昨天我有提到這個光光的問題部長去年疫情前我們的高峰是1000萬對不對"},{"start":426.283,"end":442.943,"text":"這個英鎊接近一千兩百萬不好意思超過一千萬一千兩百萬嘛187對那去年是多少648那今年預估多少現在就一千萬以一千萬目標那一到四月覺得狀況好不好"},{"start":448.393,"end":471.742,"text":"對我們是第一季195195點將近200將近200比去年成長多少相對去年的話但是已經恢復到七成了去年多比去年成長嘛對比去年的第一季成長沒錯比例因為你目標要一千萬嘛所以你要按計答"},{"start":472.102,"end":472.122,"text":"答標。"},{"start":489.255,"end":510.6,"text":"那時候你已經沒有方法了但你按計檢討你就可以發現這個趨勢對不對我們還有可以用什麼方法因為今年到現在才4月嘛換言之還有好幾個月你可以想辦法我們是跟2019比好那奧邦的話我們今年成長多少大家都在講說欸哇現在旅遊型態改變了觀光型態改變大家都愛出國對對對"},{"start":512.32,"end":523.265,"text":"政治這個說大家甚至批評到說這個比較窮的人出國台灣比較貴所以有錢留在台灣沒錢的人出國2019年是1700萬2019是1700萬出國那去年呢數字對不對就是說出國奧邦的數字是不是很明顯的上升"},{"start":541.38,"end":561.64,"text":"還是這個只是大家感覺機場人很多所以大家就說相對去年是成長是成長的立即也很明顯的成長對不對好所以旅遊型態真的在改變那旅遊型態改變我今天就先姑且不論長期這幾年長期問題像缺工阿等等問題那"},{"start":564.545,"end":591.01,"text":"部長或署長有沒有想過今年阿怎麼樣用什麼方式讓旅客可以增加時間到了是嗎好來來這個問題我回答完就好提供說明資料因為我們現在是要五路齊發啦就是說我們確實也需要增加點然後增加推廣會增加露出戶外室內的還有社群我提供一個啦就是說我覺得還是要有你還是要有亮點啦我隨便舉一個例子齁"},{"start":592.486,"end":614.037,"text":"大巨蛋完工大巨蛋是一個為棒球或者表演的成立的建築物就是說他一開始出發絕對不是為了台灣的觀光但是因為這個建築物的完成你看我們的直棒的統計數據就可以發現很多人來大巨蛋看球除了球迷之外還有第二種人是他來觀光的"},{"start":614.963,"end":641.302,"text":"他把大巨蛋視為觀光景點他來體驗一下哎呦坐在一個室內棒球場看棒球是他這一輩子沒有過的體驗所以他把它當他的觀光概念大過於看球賽的輸贏那這個叫什麼這個就是我講的觀光要從這裡做起那個陸董事長也有來嘛那你看喔陸董事長你坐就好了因為時間已經到了你看喔台鐵"},{"start":643.394,"end":656.474,"text":"這個公司化之後台鐵開始跟民間合作比如說跟這個什麼雄獅旅遊去坐那個什麼這個列車啊明日號什麼的對明日號到今天為止都還一票難求嘛對不對啊對"},{"start":657.987,"end":684.35,"text":"那一票難求為什麼不複製啊就是說我的意思說交通部底下光不要講到行政院不要講政府光交通部底下我們就可以我們有很多的商機啊其實都在我們自己的部裡面的管轄範圍觀光不可以靠觀光署一個人啊他必須要統合啊啊統合怎麼去觀光的資源應該是我抓到了重點然後我把它放大"},{"start":686.19,"end":687.311,"text":"通過行銷放大。透過行銷把它放大。"},{"start":699.019,"end":699.079,"text":"答案。"}]}},{"id":"151399","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151399","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445095a1a823232d6d257f6d030f47604f3c5dab72e655c1c949a2554e42ef972245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"10:30:53 - 10:40:03","影片長度":"00:09:10","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案。【第(四)案，如未接獲議事處來函，則不予審查】。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月17日及18日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-8"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":550,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:40:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:30:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":338,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（10時30分）謝謝主席，我請教育部。"],["主席：次長嗎？"],["吳委員沛憶：次長。"],["主席：好，次長，謝謝。"],["劉次長孟奇：委員早。"],["吳委員沛憶：次長好。最近國立政治大學達賢圖書館旁邊有一個景觀池正在舉辦命名比賽，次長有沒有看到這個新聞？"],["劉次長孟奇：我沒注意到這個新聞。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，就是進行命名比賽，讓學生提案然後大家來投票。現在還在投票當中，目前投票領先的名字叫做金玟池，次長有沒有聽過他是誰？他是一個韓團NewJeans裡面的重要成員，雖然政大有聲明這只是一個人氣投票，不代表正式命名，但我認為竟然已經開放投票，那也是一種校園民主的展現。次長，你覺得學校最後應不應該尊重這個投票結果？"],["劉次長孟奇：跟委員報告，因為我對這個活動不瞭解，我覺得還是要看學校一開始公布出來的規則。"],["吳委員沛憶：對，跟次長討論幾個往例，例如2019年臺北大學也有一個案例，學校要為新宿舍做命名票選，當時票選第一名的名稱叫做「是在哈樓」，但是學校沒有買單，學校最後用的方式為這個宿舍的地下一樓叫做「是在哈樓」，上面的宿舍還是給它另外一個名字叫做辰曦樓，某種程度上可以說是沒收這個投票結果；2017年北藝大有一隻非常有名的校牛也舉辦了命名投票，當時獲得第一名的名稱叫做「奧米加咆哮獸」，因為學生希望給予這隻校牛祝福，讓它可以非常長壽，所以這隻校牛就叫做「奧米加咆哮獸」。","而政大這一個目前還在投票當中，但我想全臺灣都在看，我還是希望既然已經開放投票，其實要去尊重民主投票的結果，那也請教育部可以來瞭解、關心。","接下來跟次長討論的是，教育部有在推動一個很重要的計畫叫做「新世代學生宿舍提升計畫」，這個計畫被審計部糾正預算執行率不佳，居住正義是整個臺灣年輕世代大家都很關心的，在學校裡面的住宿、居住問題也是非常重要，你們既然提出了這個「新世代學生宿舍提升計畫」，其中很重要的還包括校外弱勢學生的租金補貼，對不對？學生當然都非常需要、需求度很高，但執行率卻不佳，這是發生什麼事呢？"],["劉次長孟奇：主要還是學校在「校外興辦學生社會住宅」這個部分的意願比較低，我們也針對這個進行檢討，不過在補助學校宿舍建築跟弱勢學生租金補貼這部分，我們現在放比較大的力度在這裡。"],["吳委員沛憶：你們目前的執行率有沒有提升？連續幾年的預算執行率？"],["劉次長孟奇：我們是不是請副司長說明一下？"],["吳委員沛憶：可以。"],["梁副司長學政：謝謝委員的關心，除了剛才次長所講的社會住宅以外，其他校內宿舍的補助主要是根據工程的進度持續，目前都已經持續在提升，而且我們從今年開始已經推出新宿舍計畫2.0，針對學校興建或者是改建床位的補助額度會再往上提升。"],["吳委員沛憶：對，工程的部分因為前幾年遇到疫情也有時間延宕，工程的部分當然是考量它的條件，但是校外弱勢學生租金補貼這個需求絕對是在的，你們最新一年度的預算執行率是多少？你們補助校外弱勢學生的租金？"],["梁副司長學政：跟委員報告，過去在112年以前，主要財源來自於內政部住宅基金的錢，主要根據各縣市為每個月2,400到3,600的補助，今年開始已經……"],["吳委員沛憶：唉！你們到現在都還講不清楚，我幫你們講啦！這個校外弱勢學生租金補貼111年度跟112年度執行率都已經超過八成了，次長知道嗎？現在這個預算執行率不到三成是連續5年加總起來平均，因為你們上路第一年的執行率只有13%，太低了！當時你跟我們講說，因為第一次補貼剛出來，新的可能宣傳不足、學生還不知道，當時的教委會要求你們要加強宣傳的力道嘛，弱勢學生怎麼沒有需求，當然有！所以我細部去看了，執行率確實持續在提升當中，最新已經超過八成了，那你們給我的索資還再給我三成！還要我去看那個細項，所以這個很重要，好不好？不然你們還要被審計部再糾正一次，你們的預算執行率自己要說明清楚，已經超過八成代表你們有努力、學生有看見、大家有需求嘛，對不對？這部分把它說明清楚！","接下來教育部請回，我要請體育署署長。"],["主席：署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：署長，首先我要跟你關心體育署要升格為體育部或者體育暨運動發展部，這個是我們準總統賴清德的政見，馬上未來新內閣來了就會開始進行籌備以及討論，同時也是我個人在競選立委的政見，所以我非常支持。","但是也有人要求體育署現在就要提出體育署升格體育部的相關規劃，我是反對的！因為我認為體育署升格體育部不是改一個字，也不是只有處理組織的問題而已，而是未來升格之後我們臺灣如何去面對將來的運動、體育發展，包含了運動產業種種的，這是一個國家體育政策整體盤整的契機，所以我覺得不許倉促、絕對不許倉促！如果你為了趕時間匆匆提出來，我現在問啦，到底你們要叫體育暨運動發展部、運動發展部還是體育部？這當中未來涉及到裡面的任務編組、人事的來源，通通都會完全不一樣喔！還是你們要參考國外，例如有些是雙元部會，比如韓國是叫文化體育觀光部，到底我們要怎麼樣的方向？一定要有充足的討論，而且不能關起門來討論，要邀請民間這麼多的選手、體育人士、運動產業等等很多專家一起討論，有充足討論之後才去處理法的問題。","所以我要再次提醒署長，這也不是個人的意志，事實上這是既有的政治慣例跟倫理。過去我在臺北市議會，我們也經歷過不同政黨首長的銜接，當時柯文哲市長在卸任之前2個月推出了重大政策──悠遊卡公司的興櫃案，馬上就換了新的市長蔣萬安，他上任之後就說這個不符合政治原理與慣例，因為前任首長做的決策，但是後面包含預算、執行等等的都是後任首長要來執行。所以這個我希望你們要非常地謹慎，尤其體育署升格為體育部是國家大事！我們臺灣體育人等了多久了，絕對要經過充足的討論才能來進行籌備，好不好？","最後一點時間要關心運動性平保障，我就是一點提醒啦！體育署2017年有女性參與運動白皮書，同時2020年你們也簽署了女性與運動宣言，你們自己也提出了「性別友善運動設施空間與環境規劃指引」。但是我看了你們的預算編列，你們其實並沒有對應到自己簽的女性運動公約，因為你現在還在處理明年度預算的報編，對不對？還沒報給院嘛，我希望你們要去盤整，這些宣言、公約不能只有簽署，回來之後還是做你們自己的，這樣沒有達到提升性平的約束，所以希望你們現在報編明年預算時要重新盤整，必須要把你們簽署的這些女性運動宣言精神融合、納入整體的業務編列，好不好？"],["鄭署長世忠：好，謝謝委員提醒。"],["吳委員沛憶：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳沛憶委員，剛剛名字叫錯了，所以要特別再講一聲，吳沛憶委員，謝謝，謝謝次長。","我們接下來請陳培瑜委員，在羅廷瑋委員質詢完畢之後，休息5分鐘；然後在張雅琳委員質詢完畢之後，就處理我們的臨時提案，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-8","speakers":["柯志恩","何欣純","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","萬美玲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","范雲","張雅琳","蔡其昌","徐欣瑩","葉元之","王鴻薇","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員柯志恩等\n16人擬具「專科學校法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「國\n民體育法第五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修\n正草案」案、(三)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「國民體育法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n何欣純等20人擬具「國民體育法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133001_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":0.35159375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.00971875,"end":1.8872187500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.15721875,"end":2.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.56221875,"end":3.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.72159375,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.379718750000002,"end":19.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.73659375,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.394718750000003,"end":22.829093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.829093750000002,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.704718750000005,"end":69.48846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.69096875000001,"end":71.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.82596875,"end":70.12971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.24784375,"end":70.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.05784375,"end":175.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.47159375,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.59034375000002,"end":206.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.25596875000002,"end":210.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.97721875000002,"end":208.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.99409375000002,"end":209.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.74909375000001,"end":221.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.97096875000003,"end":234.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.54284375,"end":252.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.71284375000002,"end":256.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.37909375000004,"end":271.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.58346875,"end":271.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.63409375000003,"end":272.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.68471875,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.32159375000003,"end":274.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.44784375,"end":285.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.38284375,"end":338.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.06659375000004,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.19284375,"end":342.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.40346875,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.53784375000004,"end":347.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.77409375,"end":461.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.69284375,"end":489.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.23284375000003,"end":547.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.2534687500001,"end":548.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9622187500001,"end":548.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.8015937499999,"end":550.96596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":3.593,"text":"最近我們國立政治大學達賢圖書館旁邊有一個景觀池正在舉辦命名比賽,次長有沒有看到這個新聞?"},{"start":21.585,"end":36.744,"text":"我沒注意到這個新聞就是進行命名比賽讓學生來提案然後大家來投票那現在目前還在投票當中目前投票領先的這個名車叫做金文池那金文池呢"},{"start":37.785,"end":61.056,"text":"市長有沒有聽過他是誰他是韓團NewJeans裡面重要的成員那雖然說政大有聲明說這個只是一個人氣投票不代表正式命名但我是認為竟然已經開放投票那也是一種校園民主的展現那市長你覺得學校之後應不應該要來尊重這個投票的結果"},{"start":62.788,"end":84.371,"text":"委員報告,因為我對這個活動不了解,我覺得還是要看學校一開始公佈出來的一個規則。對,跟市長討論有幾個往例喔。例如說2019年的時候,台北大學有一個案例,就是學校要為新宿舍來做命名的票選。當時票選第一名的名稱叫做是在哈囉。"},{"start":85.572,"end":107.649,"text":"但是學校沒有買單學校最後用的方式是這個宿舍的地下一樓叫做是在哈樓那上面的宿舍還是給他另外一個名字叫做城西樓某種程度上可以說是沒收這個投票的結果那2017年的時候北藝大北藝大我們有一隻校牛嘛非常有名的校牛也舉辦了命名的投票當時獲得第一名的名稱叫做奧米加跑酵獸"},{"start":112.833,"end":118.999,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。」案。 »:二、審查委員柯志恩等16人擬具:「國民體育法第四十四條條文修正草案案。 »:"},{"start":131.272,"end":134.656,"text":"教育部推動新世代學生宿舍提升計劃,審計部糾正預算質詢率不足。"},{"start":151.674,"end":175.774,"text":"依然提出了這個新世代學生宿舍計畫其中很重要還包括我們要來補助在校外的弱勢學生我們要給他租金補貼嘛對不對其實學生當然都非常的需要需求度很高那我們執行率卻不佳這是發生什麼事呢"},{"start":177.466,"end":179.166,"text":"對,那我們目前的執行率有沒有提升?連續幾年的預算執行率?"},{"start":207.444,"end":234.157,"text":"我們是不是請副市長詢問一下?可以!謝謝委員的關心除了剛才市長所講的社會住宅以外其他的校內宿舍的補助主要是因為根據工程的進度會持續那目前都已經持續在提升而且我們從今年開始已經推出新宿舍計畫的2.0然後針對學校的一個新建或者是改建的床位的那個補助的額度會再往上提升"},{"start":234.617,"end":252.117,"text":"公懲的部分,因為前幾年其實也遇到疫情,也有這個時間性的延宕,公懲的部分當然是考量他的條件,但是校外弱勢學生租金補貼,這個需求絕對是在的。我們現在最新一年度的預算執行率是多少?"},{"start":253.752,"end":267.441,"text":"我們補助校外弱勢學生的租金。是,跟委員報告,過去在1、1、2年以前,我們是根據它的主要來源,裁員來自於那個內政部的住宅的錢,那主要根據各縣是用2400塊到每個月2400到3600的這樣一個補助。"},{"start":271.784,"end":272.245,"text":"市長知道嗎?市長知道嗎?"},{"start":286.448,"end":295.434,"text":"你現在這個預算執行率不到三成是連續五年加總起來平均啊因為你們上路的第一年的執行率只有13%太低了那當時你們跟我們講說因為第一次補貼剛出來新的可能宣傳不足學生還不知道"},{"start":304.881,"end":317.286,"text":"那所以隔年開始我們要當時的教委會要求你們要加強宣傳的力道嘛若是學生怎麼沒有需求當然有所以執行率確實我給你們系部去看了持續在提升當中最新已經來過超到超過八成了那你們給我的所知還在給我三成還要我在那邊去看那個細項所以啊這個很重要好不好不然你們審計部還要再糾正一次這個你們預算執行率自己去把它說明清楚"},{"start":331.872,"end":343.663,"text":"已經超過八成,代表我們有努力,學生有看見,大家有需求,對不對?這個去把它說明清楚。接下來我要教育部請回,我要請體育署署長"},{"start":347.551,"end":351.914,"text":"委員長首先我要跟你關心這個體育署要升格為體育部或者體育暨運動發展部這個是我們準總統賴清德的政見馬上新內閣未來新內閣來就會開始來進行這個籌備以及討論那同時也是我個人在競選立委的政見所以我非常的支持但是呢有人在詢問說現在要求體育署現在就要提出體育署升格體育部相關的規劃我是反對的"},{"start":377.871,"end":383.315,"text":"因為我認為體育署升格體育部他不是改一個字也不是只有處理組織的問題而已是我們未來這個升格之後是我們台灣如何去面對我們將來的運動體育發展包含了運動產業"},{"start":393.183,"end":395.145,"text":"總總的這是一個我們整個國家的體育政策整體盤整的契機所以我覺得不許倉促絕對不許倉促你為了趕時間匆匆提出來到底我現在問到底我們要叫體育及運動發展部還是運動發展部還是體育部這個當中未來涉及到裡面的任務編組"},{"start":414.884,"end":416.385,"text":"二、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、審查委員柯志恩等一、"},{"start":430.169,"end":434.791,"text":"要邀請我們民間的這麼多的選手啊體育人士啊運動產業等等很多的專家大家一起討論有充足的討論之後才來去處理法的問題所以呢我要再次的提醒署長這也不是個人的意志事實上這是既有的政治慣例跟倫理啦因為過去我在台北市議會我們也經歷過首長不同政黨的銜接喔那當時呢柯文哲市長在卸任之前的兩個月"},{"start":457.68,"end":484.895,"text":"就推出了重大政策,悠遊卡的這個公司要新歸案。馬上就換了新的市長蔣安安上任之後,他就說這個不符合政治原理與慣例啊。因為你前任首長做的決策,但是後面包含預算,包含後面的這個執行,都是後任首長要來執行的。所以這個我希望你們要非常的謹慎,尤其是體育署升格為體育部,這是國家大事。我們台灣體育人等了多久了?"},{"start":485.535,"end":486.036,"text":"絕對要經過充足的討論才能來進行籌備好不好"},{"start":490.305,"end":514.93,"text":"好,然後最後一點時間要關心的是我們的這個運動性平保障我就是一點提醒啦我們這個體育署2017年自己有女性參與運動白皮書同時2020年我們也簽署了女性及運動宣言我們自己也提出了性別友善運動設施空間及環境規劃的指引但是我看了你們的預算的編列我們其實並沒有去對應到我們簽的這個女性運動的公約"},{"start":517.771,"end":545.611,"text":"這一點我希望體育署因為你現在還在處理明年度預算的報編對不對還沒有報給院嘛我希望你們要去盤整我們這些宣言公約不能說只簽署了之後回來我們還是做我們自己的這樣沒有達到我們提升性平的這些約束所以希望我們現在在報編明年的預算我們要重新盤整要來把我們簽署的這些女性運動的宣言的精神必須要去融合納入我們的整個整體的業務編列好不好"},{"start":547.674,"end":548.017,"text":"謝謝委員提醒。"}]}},{"id":"151398","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151398","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44552c28a18fa3d4314cc5372cc05450cb2c5dab72e655c1c94268cb4a8a8bd5f905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:21:27 - 10:35:38","影片長度":"00:14:11","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-14"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":851,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:35:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:21:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":248,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時21分）謝謝主席。麻煩請委員長。"],["主席：麻煩委員長。"],["徐委員長佳青：馬召委好。"],["馬委員文君：委員長好。我延續剛剛王定宇委員的議題，這次我們都有隨團參加。這次台商總會聯合會發生的插曲，雖然說是插曲，但可能也是政治干擾問題，這是不管過去或現在、未來都會面臨到的。我要在這裡呼籲，如果這是北京當局主動干預，做這麼大的動作，尤其是對一個民間團體的全球會議去做這樣的干擾，我覺得是小鼻子小眼睛！"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：可是我們也看到，就像剛剛所講，越南方面其實戒慎恐懼，也許只是一個小動作卻做出很大的反應，這才是我們應該要警惕的。可是我們也要看到國際的現實面，今天為什麼會這樣子？整個市場、整個供應鏈，很多方方面面的條件上，其實他們的影響力大得多，即使我們臺灣很多的廠商在越南的投資，在他們的官方統計是第六位，可是如果透過其他的國家進去投資，也是我們的臺商，這樣子算起來，就是轉投資繞進去，其實我們排在五名以內……"],["徐委員長佳青：三名內。"],["馬委員文君：三名內，是非常高的，都有這麼大的投資了，可是還會發生這樣的問題，我們可能要審慎評估跟考量，這個可能不是只有做調查，因為記得上一次台塑在越南發生過暴動的時候，其實很多國家也在考慮越南是不是一個適合投資的地方，包括我們很多的臺商，可是當他們做完評估以後，越南還是他們的首選，所以我們才會有這麼多的廠商跟資金進到越南，就這個部分，僑委會雖然不是主要的業務單位，可是我們還是會面對很多像類似這樣的問題，這個有政治的現實面，不是我們單方面說了算，今天有很多的投資者，他們要投資，要把錢放進去的時候，這都是身家財產，他們想的會比我們多，他們可能會傾向於妥協，所以我們應該要怎麼樣拿捏？","因為現在新政府要上來了，未來整個國際的局勢、兩岸的局勢，其實同等重要，我要強調的是這一點，所以我們不可以被欺負，可是我們可以有更好的溝通能力，就像徐委員長，其實我看你常常都是笑嘻嘻的，所以即使在面對不同意見或者不同政黨、不同的政治態度的時候，我們怎麼樣去溝通，這個非常重要。從小放大，我想它的作法應該都是一致的，這個部分我們也要特別提出來。"],["徐委員長佳青：是，其實這一次，我跟召委報告，我們跟越方的溝通其實都暢行無阻，越方也很坦誠跟我們解釋了很多內部的狀況，他們說來自於中國大使館的壓力，幾乎24小時緊盯著他們的狀態，所以我可以清楚感受到他們的壓力，他們也派人來跟我們致歉，也特別請我跟江啟臣副院長表達歉意，就是希望不要因為這個事件來造成影響彼此雙方之間未來的一些合作，但是我們也提醒他們，不是我們官方的問題而已，而是民間他們看到這種狀況的時候會有所擔憂，所以也期待在某些穩定度上，可以讓我們的投資者更加放心，畢竟這個經濟自由度跟穩定度都是全球企業非常重視的項目。"],["馬委員文君：對，我剛剛說的就是因為我們看結果，今天不管人家用什麼樣的手段、不管用什麼樣的方式，可是結果就是這樣，所以今天如果在越南投資，臺商是我們非常重要的資產，他也是非常重要的角色，如果說對岸今天會使這麼大的力，表示其實這裡面有很多很重要的因素在裡面，看結果，我們現在面臨的就是這樣子，所以應該要怎麼樣去做調整或改變或可以讓它變好，這是我們應該努力的，因為我們沒有辦法去要求其他的國家或者別人應該怎麼做，可是我們應該怎麼做，我們可以有主導權，這個部分我們可以讓我們更好，自由國家可以走的出去，我們的臺商可以有更好的環境，這個是政府應該要做的。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：所以我覺得其他理由可能我們講了也沒用，結果就是這樣，就看你們要怎樣改變結果。"],["徐委員長佳青：我們會加強溝通。"],["馬委員文君：另外，我要請教的是，我們現在面臨少子化、高齡化、工作人口減少、老化，所以在臺灣的經濟成長在人力很欠缺的情況之下，僑委會其實也配合政府一個很重要的政策，就是在中長程施政計畫裡面，把僑委會過去產攜僑生專班跟海青班為基礎的部分擴增僑外生的生源，希望增加三倍，然後檢討所有僑生的招生跟留用的制度。所以我們為了像這樣子的一個政策，僑委會的資料也看到這個計畫期程是從112年到115年，總經費高達36億2,000萬，這在僑委會算是不少的預算。"],["徐委員長佳青：很大。"],["馬委員文君：我們要辦理的計畫項目主要是希望可以培育生源、擴大招生，還有在學輔導以及就業輔導這四個大的工作項目，可是我們看到當然在這個計畫裡面其實可以解決國內的缺工，又可以增進我們海外僑胞對臺灣的認同，又可以推廣我們很多的華語文，就是我們一直在推的項目，等於說一舉多得，可是教育是長期的工作，我們現在看到以僑生專班為例，從初期招生、來源國的舉薦、學生審核、分發就學要經過7年，其中3年是技高端，我們所謂的高職，還有另外4年的技專端，就是我們所謂的科技大學。"],["徐委員長佳青：大學。"],["馬委員文君：加上就業跟實習的訓練，最後留臺的就業人數才是檢驗我們這一筆預算執行的成果，所以政府在編列預算的時候，是不是合理的支應？我想我們可以來看一下一些數據資料，從過去105年，因為是7年，所以我們用105學年招募的僑生經過7年的時間到112年畢業的這一個例子來看，從招募報名七百多個學生，到112年6月只剩下240個畢業留在臺灣，其實大概只有三分之一，在108年到109年入學高中的部分，這個人數還算蠻高的，有2,115位跟1,726位，這是108、109年，可是到111年、112年進入技術學院的入學人數就只剩下七成，大概也流失30%，不曉得為什麼？僑委會有沒有掌握僑生沒有完成學業就提早離開臺灣，這樣的原因到底是什麼？","因為我們在很多不管是獎學金，還有學雜費的補助各方面，其實我們好像考慮的非常周到，可是還是有高達30%的學生在還沒有結束之前就選擇離開臺灣，最後可能會造成的影響會比較多，所以我們希望僑委會在這個優化的措施，可以具體把它再做出一個詳細的規劃，好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：因為我們在用的……可是在這裡因為時間的關係，我們希望僑委會大概去優化這個部分。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["馬委員文君：因為他大概只剩下三分之一或者有7年的時間，可是30%在時間不到就離開。"],["徐委員長佳青：我們現在每一年都會追蹤學校，從高職端開始，他從一年級，其實最容易離開是一年級到二年級的時候，因為就是適應力的問題，有些學生他說跟他原來想像有落差，所以我們在前期招生的時候一定要把資訊很清楚、完整的說明到位。"],["馬委員文君：沒關係，委員長，因為時間的關係，我有下一個問題，這個部分再請給本席書面的資料。"],["徐委員長佳青：好的。"],["馬委員文君：就是說他不適應的原因，怎麼樣可以做其他優化的部分，這部分再提供書面。","可是我們今天比較特別在乎的是，本席辦公室有接獲僑胞的反應，他的子女想要來臺灣唸書，就是唸我們的產學合作專班，可是他跟所在國，我們駐外的使領館，還有我們代表處、辦事處或其他外交部授權的機構詢問相關的規定或做法的時候，得到的答復都是去找僑委會核定的保薦單位來洽辦。本席想要請教委員長，僑生不可以自己去報名產合專班嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：他來報的時候，不是不可以，也是會由我們的僑務人員去做面試，也就是說我們一定會有一個面試的過程，保薦單位的功能就是幫我們做……"],["馬委員文君：可是他說不可以，因為我們接到的陳情，他是不可以，他希望去找我們推薦的保薦單位。接下來我要請教的是，因為時間的關係，我先簡單地把我這個問題先講完，就是說，因為在我們的僑務委員會遴選僑生回國就學保薦單位要點第二點，僑生回國就學的時候是以向我駐外使領館、代表處、辦事處或其他外交部授權機構（以下簡稱駐外館處）申請為原則，以上面這些地點或這些單位為原則，其他的保薦單位其實是為輔的，可是我們現在把它顛倒過來，變成除了保薦單位保薦的以外，其他的都不行，現在有這樣的問題，委員長，我想請你再去做詳細的瞭解和調查。"],["徐委員長佳青：好的，我來針對這個個案瞭解。"],["馬委員文君：來看這個資料，保薦單位怎麼遴選出來的，我們總共有8個國家，東南亞國家包括越南、馬來西亞、印尼、緬甸、泰國、菲律賓、柬埔寨及寮國，像保薦單位，我們看到學生人數一直都居高不下的第一名是越南，非常高，在112學年度就有一千兩百多人，其實最多的是印尼，有一千六百多人，這兩個國家都是學生來臺人數最多的。可是越南居然只有1個保薦單位，這一個單位要負責的不只一千多人，因為從107年度也是一千多、一千多人，還有好幾百人的，這樣加起來的人數總共六千多人，就只有1個保薦單位。馬來西亞的人口數、面積都非常大，來臺的學生人數在107年還有100人，在112年的時候卻只剩下41人，可是馬來西亞的保薦單位居然有121個，委員長，這是非常不合乎比例的，到底為什麼？這裡面是不是有一些不法？我在這裡不希望用這樣子的態度先去設定，可是是不是有這樣的問題，我希望委員長可以調查清楚，應該讓它更公平、更透明，尤其我們做的是教育，如果這個部分是一個核心原則，我們應該怎麼讓利益不要在這裡把持，才是今天的重點。"],["徐委員長佳青：非常同意委員……"],["馬委員文君：因為時間的關係，沒有辦法詳細的討論很多，可是就我今天提出來的……"],["徐委員長佳青：我事後把相關的資料補充完整。"],["馬委員文君：除了提供資料以外，也請做一個妥適的說明，好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：好，我願意親自來跟委員做說明。"],["馬委員文君：謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員的發言。","接下來請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-14","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","麥玉珍","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","洪申翰","邱志偉","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告「如何增進海外僑胞對國家之認同與支持具體做法」，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1133001_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":2.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.45221875,"end":5.2115937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.09284375,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.126593750000001,"end":9.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.61596875,"end":9.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.66659375,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.25721875,"end":38.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.94471875,"end":51.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.432218750000004,"end":101.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.11284375000001,"end":70.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.12471875,"end":123.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.37034375,"end":158.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.41534375,"end":172.20659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.13471875000002,"end":213.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.54221875000002,"end":212.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.79096875000002,"end":229.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.34096875,"end":259.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.50096875,"end":282.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.97409375,"end":336.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.84096875,"end":325.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.00846875,"end":333.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.94034375,"end":347.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.47159375,"end":341.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.26346875,"end":479.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.73659375000005,"end":493.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.36721875,"end":506.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.61409375000005,"end":524.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.21471875,"end":565.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.35221875,"end":563.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.11971875,"end":579.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.4353437500001,"end":572.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.0290937500001,"end":600.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.30846875,"end":651.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.04159375,"end":607.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.36784375,"end":625.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.0347187500001,"end":664.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.4040937500001,"end":724.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.44596875,"end":721.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.36534375,"end":722.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.8797187499999,"end":727.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.84971875,"end":745.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.31096875,"end":756.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.09409375,"end":845.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":833.08221875,"end":834.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.76971875,"end":835.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.29659375,"end":838.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":845.16471875,"end":846.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.2490937500002,"end":845.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.00846875,"end":846.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.1772187500001,"end":846.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.3078437500001,"end":851.2734687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.37,"end":1.592,"text":"馬文君委員長馬文君委員長"},{"start":9.21,"end":37.89,"text":"馬昭薇好委員長好我延續剛剛王定宇委員他的這個議題因為這一次我們都有隨團去參加那這一次臺商總會聯合會舉辦發生的這些差距說差距他可能也是政治干擾的問題不管過去或現在或未來都會面臨到的那在這裡我也"},{"start":39.532,"end":55.126,"text":"會呼籲因為北京當局其實做這樣子如果是由他們主動去干預做這麼大的尤其是對於這樣的民間團體的一個全球的會議去做這樣的干擾我覺得是小鼻子小眼睛"},{"start":56.187,"end":69.34,"text":"可是我們在這裡也看到就像剛剛講的越南方面其實他們藉甚恐懼也許他們只是一個小的動作可是他們做很大的反應這個才是我們應該要警惕的可是我們也要看到國際的現實面今天為什麼會這樣子"},{"start":77.788,"end":101.229,"text":"整個的市場整個的供應鏈整個很多的方方面面的條件其實他們的影響力大得多即使我們台灣很多的廠商在越南的投資高達現在他們的官方統計是第6位可是如果透過其他的國家進去投資也是我們的台商"},{"start":102.17,"end":105.534,"text":"其實我們排在五名以內,而且三名內是非常高的,可是因為都有這麼大的投資額,可是還會發生這樣的問題,那個我們可能要審慎的評估跟考量,這個可能不是只有做調查"},{"start":122.533,"end":141.147,"text":"因為記得在上一次台塑在越南發生就是上一次他們有發生過暴動的時候其實很多國家也在考慮越南是不是一個適合投資的地方包括我們很多的台商可是當他們做完評估以後越南還是他們的首選"},{"start":142.128,"end":142.428,"text":"馬文君"},{"start":159.517,"end":168.463,"text":"等方面說了算今天有很多的投資者他們要投資要把錢放進去的時候這都是身家財產他們想的會比我們多那他們可能會傾向於妥協"},{"start":173.206,"end":192.178,"text":"所以我們應該要怎麼樣拿捏不管因為現在新政府要上來了未來整個國際的局勢兩岸的局勢它其實同等重要其實我要強調的是這一點所以如果說我們不可以被欺負可是我們可以有更好的溝通能力就像許委員長"},{"start":193.419,"end":199.242,"text":"其實我看你常常都是笑嘻嘻的所以即使在面對不同意見或者不同政黨或者不同的政治態度的時候我們怎麼樣去溝通這個非常重要從小放大我想這個應該他的做法都是一致的"},{"start":212.969,"end":224.796,"text":"其實這一次我跟召委報告我們跟越方的溝通其實都暢行無阻那越方也很坦誠跟我們解釋了很多內部的狀況他們說的來自於這個"},{"start":230.419,"end":257.933,"text":"中國的大使館壓力是幾乎24小時緊盯著他們的狀態所以我可以清楚感受到他們的壓力他們也派人來跟我們致歉也特別請我跟江啟臣副院長表達歉意就是希望說不要因為這個事件來造成彼此雙方之間未來的一些合作但是我們也提醒他們就是說"},{"start":259.574,"end":264.177,"text":"不是我們官方的問題而已而是民間他們看到這種狀況的時候會有所擔憂所以也期待說在某些穩定度上可以讓我們的投資者更加放心畢竟這個經濟自由度跟穩定度這個都是全球的這個企業非常重視的項目"},{"start":283.828,"end":307.495,"text":"對,我剛剛說的就是說因為我們看結果今天不管人家用什麼樣的手段不管用什麼樣的方式可是結果就是這樣所以今天如果說在越南投資的台商是我們非常重要的資產他也是非常重要的角色如果說對岸今天會使這麼大的力表示其實這裡面有很多很重要的因素在裡面"},{"start":308.935,"end":335.425,"text":"看結果我們現在面臨的就是這樣子所以應該要怎麼樣去做調整或改變或可以讓他變好這是我們應該努力的因為我們沒有辦法去要求其他的國家或者別人應該怎麼做可是我們應該怎麼做我們可以有主導權這個部分我們可以讓我們更好自由國家可以走的出去我們的台商可以有更好的環境這個是政府應該要做的所以我覺得其他理由可能我們"},{"start":337.014,"end":340.278,"text":"我們現在面臨少者化高齡化我們工作人口減少老化所以在台灣的經濟成長人力很欠缺的情況之下"},{"start":356.478,"end":362.264,"text":"我們僑委會其實也配合政府一個很重要的政策就是在中長城施政計畫裡面把僑委會過去產息僑生專班跟海青班為基礎的這個部分把它擴增僑外生的生源"},{"start":374.236,"end":374.276,"text":"﹚馬文君﹚"},{"start":396.181,"end":399.503,"text":"那我們要辦理的這個計畫項目主要是希望可以培育生源、擴大招生還有在學輔導以及就業輔導這四個大的工作項目可是我們看到這個計畫裡面它當然其實可以解決國內的缺工又可以增進我們海外僑胞對台灣的認同然後又可以推廣我們很多的華語文這樣子我們一直在"},{"start":424.961,"end":428.923,"text":"一舉多得可是教育是長期的工作我們現在看到我們以僑生專班為例從初期招生來源國的舉薦學生審核分發就學要經過7年其中3年是技高端就是我們所謂的高職還有另外4年的技專端就是我們所謂的科技大"},{"start":451.333,"end":470.026,"text":"特技大學那這個就習跟實習的訓練最後流台的就業人數才是檢驗我們這一筆預算他執行的成果所以政府在編列預算的時候是不是合理的支應我想我們可以來看一下有一些數據資料從過去105年因為是7年嘛所以我們用105學年招募的僑生他經過7年的時間到112年畢業"},{"start":481.014,"end":504.515,"text":"這個例子來看,從招募報名700多個學生到112年6月只剩下240個畢業留在臺灣,其實他大概只有三分之一那在108年到109年入學高中的部分,這個人數還算蠻高的,有2115位"},{"start":507.659,"end":507.859,"text":"：馬文君"},{"start":525.31,"end":528.312,"text":"不曉得為什麼僑委會有沒有掌握說僑生沒有完成這樣的學業就提早離開台灣這樣的原因到底是什麼因為我們在很多的不管講學金還有學雜費的補助各方面其實我們好像考慮的非常周到可是還是有高達30%的學生"},{"start":545.625,"end":547.706,"text":"在還沒有結束之前他就選擇離開台灣那這最後可能會造成的影響會比較多所以我們希望僑委會在這個優化的措施可以具體的去把它再做出詳細的一個規劃好不好因為我們在用的可是"},{"start":566.181,"end":593.458,"text":"在這裡因為時間的關係我們希望僑委會大概去優化這個部分因為他大概只剎三分之一或者有七年的時間可是他30%在不到的時間我們現在每一年都會追蹤學校從高職端開始就是說他從一年級其實最容易離開是一年級到二年級的時候因為他就是適應力的問題然後有些學生他說跟他原來想像有落差"},{"start":594.298,"end":603.306,"text":"那所以我們在前期招生的時候一定要把資訊很清楚而完整的說明到位好沒關係委員長因為時間的關係我有下一個問題那這個部分再請給本席書面的資料就是說他不適應的原因那怎麼樣可以做其他的優化的部分這個再提供書面可是我們現在今天比較特別在乎的是本席辦公室有接貨僑胞的反應"},{"start":620.74,"end":624.783,"text":"他的子女想要來臺灣念書就念我們的產學合作專班可是他跟所在國我們駐外的像使領館還有我們代表處辦事處或其他外交部授權的機構詢問相關的規定或做法的時候得到的答覆都是去找"},{"start":641.836,"end":646.858,"text":"僑委會合併的保健單位來洽辦本席想要請教委員長僑生不可以自己去報名他產核專班嗎他來報的時候呢不是不可以那也是會有我們的僑務人員去做面試也就是說我們一定會有一個面試的過程那這個保健單位的"},{"start":662.743,"end":665.244,"text":"因為我們接到的陳情他是不可以他希望我們推薦希望他去找我們推薦的保健單位接下來我要請教的因為時間齁的關係我先簡單的把我這個問題先講完就是說因為"},{"start":680.089,"end":683.91,"text":"在我們僑務委員會領選僑生回國就學保健單位要點第二點僑生回國就學的時候是以向我駐外使領館代表處辦事處或其他外交部授權的機構我們以下簡稱外館處然後申請為原則就是以上面這些地點為原則或這些單位"},{"start":703.974,"end":717.762,"text":"其他的我們的保健單位其實它是為府的可是我們現在把它顛倒過來變成除了這個保健單位保健的以外其他的都不行現在有這樣的問題是不是這樣委員長我想請你再去做詳細的了解跟調查因為我們看這個資料我們保健單位怎麼遴選出來的"},{"start":727.907,"end":754.907,"text":"我們這裡總共大概有8個國家東南亞國家、越南、馬來西亞、印尼、緬甸、泰國、菲律賓、柬埔寨還有寮國那像保健單位我們看到這個學生人數一直都居高不下的第一名是越南他非常高在112學年度就1200多人那其實最多的是印尼他有1600多人"},{"start":757.748,"end":785.014,"text":"這兩個國家都是學生來台人數最多的可是越南居然只有一個保健單位就這個單位它負責所有一千多人它不只一千多人因為它從107年度也是一千多一千多還有好幾百的這樣加起來它的人數總共六千多人就只有一個保健單位那馬來西亞它的人口數它的面積都非常大"},{"start":785.714,"end":786.775,"text":"委員長這是非常不合乎比例的一個問題"},{"start":803.814,"end":809.599,"text":"那到底為什麼 這裡面是不是有一些不法我現在在這裡不希望用這樣子的態度先去設定可是它是不是有我希望委員長你們可以調查清楚如果應該讓它更公平更透明讓我們的政策可還尤其我們做的是教育如果這個部分是一個核心的原則我們應該怎麼樣讓利益不要在這裡把持"},{"start":829.938,"end":830.499,"text":"馬文君委員發言"}]}},{"id":"151397","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151397","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4457868761b34ad3c690525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c945347f071d6b30dbb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"10:22:43 - 10:35:16","影片長度":"00:12:33","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-9"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":753,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:35:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:22:43+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":485,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時23分）謝謝。我可不可以請主委？"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝主委，辛苦您了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：有一句話大家常常在講「上臺容易，下臺難」，往往離開的身影就可以看到一個人的高貴跟優雅。黃主委是在金管會的位子上在任最久的一位主委，不管在藍綠的委員當中，其實對於您的評價，私底下都給予很多的肯定，這一點我相信主委也是點滴在心頭！過去雖然我只有不到兩個月的時間，有機會站在這裡跟主委做答詢，但是主委給我的印象是永遠戴著口罩，位子只坐三分之一，永遠坐挺挺直直的，這是我對您最深刻的印象。但更重要的是在這段時間，包括你對法律的遵循，還有金管會應該有的一些底線的堅持，我看到您的努力。昨天我聽到召委在質詢的時候，您說您比較掛心的兩個重要政策，一個是虛擬資產的專法，還有包括BNPL先買後付，這兩件是重要的政策，其實都會影響到我們資產的穩定度。所以面對包括中國大陸在這段時間，從前年開始疫情之後，景氣不穩定的狀況；包括歐美國家、包括好幾間銀行、金融的狀況，我覺得我們臺灣整體金融業相對的是穩定的，所以主委也說會拼到5月19日。但是我們也看到資本的穩定、市場穩定，其實還有一個很重要的因素就是保險業的穩健，在這一塊，無論是前段時間我跟您答詢過程當中，我都看到您的堅持。臺灣在保險業穩健的部分，包括臺灣保險滲透率的部分，這個比例相對是非常高的，包括在臺灣，平均每個國人都有2.6張保單。所以主委過去對於保險法，我們RBC要達到200%，其實你的立場非常明確。曾經有人說嚴師出高徒，所以我很敬佩主委在底線上的堅持，我們也看到體質稍微需要再加強的，慢慢也都跟著上來了。但是主委您在5月19日即將功成身退，在本週二16日的時候，我們也公布了2026年要跟ICS接軌第三階段在地化的過渡性措施。主委會不會擔心，在這一段時間包括保險業者，你要求的法定適足率RBC要達200%，還有我們跟ICS的接軌，你會不會擔心人去政息？"],["黃主任委員天牧：第一點，有關保險資本適足率，其實它是現在明定於保險法，什麼程度該做什麼處理，這叫立即糾正措施，都是明定的，這是我們必須要依法去處理。至於接軌的部分，我想我們過去的態度就是考慮國情，並不是把國外的規範完全不考慮就全部套在國內業者上，也給了三個階段的相關措施，我想這部分我盡力了，當然未來的彭主委，他比我對保險更專精，他是保險專家。"],["李委員彥秀：你會不會擔心，因為過去他在媒體上對於這些可能有不同的看法，而這是你過去所堅持的，你會不會擔心會打折扣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我過去也跟彭老師常請教，有些意見我也都接納他的想法，他將來接了主委的位置，他當然會對一些政策有他的想法。我昨天也報告過，我們尊重未來彭主委的想法。"],["李委員彥秀：好，到6月底前包括保險業RBC達到200%，你會持續的推動嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個沒有妥協的空間，該做什麼就做什麼。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝主委，你果然是努力到最後一天，你請回。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，謝謝委員。"],["李委員彥秀：我請我們親愛的主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：主計長好。主計長，我先就一個小議題請教您。這一次衛福部公告護理人員夜班的獎勵方案，這本來是要鼓勵醫護人員留任的政策跟方案，後來我們也看到引起很多的反彈，因為本來是要幫大小夜班都增加一些補助的費用，但是後來引起區域醫院跟地區醫院很多的反彈，因為在醫學中心的部分，增加的獎勵金實在太高，這也造成區域醫院跟地區醫院的護理人員流失非常得快。新的方案已經出來了，那會需要增加到1.13億元的預算，健保署表示會積極的爭取，那麼爭取當然是要跟主計處爭取，我聽到這個部分好像卡在主計處你這邊，你有什麼樣的意見嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，我們原來113年就有編好一個經費，另外一個是，到底應該是由我們在特別預算裡面編的一筆錢來處理，還是要在總額裡面決定，那個是由衛福部來決定的，因為最後講到錢的問題都喜歡說是主計總處的意見……"],["李委員彥秀：都是你去決定？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，因為我們的預算……"],["李委員彥秀：到底從衛福部去處理，還是從特別預算處理，現在還沒喬定，行政院還沒決定就對了？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，就是在疫後特別預算裡面也有編一筆錢，總預算裡面也有編一筆錢，那個錢都已經在預算裡面，所以他們內部去調，因為預算已經通過了，不可能再增加新的。"],["李委員彥秀：所以跟你沒有關係，是跟衛福部有關係，所以卡是卡在衛福部，不是卡在你這邊？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我這邊的錢都是大院已經通過了，不可能再增加。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道不能再增加，但是錢到底是用哪一筆錢，就是從衛福部裡面去做決定？"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["李委員彥秀：特別預算要經過你這邊嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：特別預算也是大院通過的。"],["李委員彥秀：OK。決定撥給哪些，因為這個是後來才增加爭取的。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，他要分配，醫學中心、區域醫院、地區醫院，它有……"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，這個我知道，我們長話短說，因為我還有別的議題要請教您，所以這個部分衛福部自己就可以決定了？"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["李委員彥秀：好，我清楚了，謝謝。你知道這個預算什麼時候會通過嗎？因為多拖一天，我擔心護理人員留不住，流動率非常高。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那是衛福部要快一點，所謂的撥款程序要快點決定怎麼使用這筆錢，經費都已經在特別預算跟健保的總額裡面，都已經有了。"],["李委員彥秀：好，所以是卡在衛福部就對了，謝謝主計長。我第二個問題要就教於主計長，我最近看到幾個數字，我們公布的1、2月受僱人員薪資跟人數其實都達到新高，達到過去六年來的第二高，平均每人每月達到46,017元，比較去年同期，增加2.39個百分點。但是我們去年實質總薪資總共下降1.04%。主計長，1、2月經常性薪資達到2.39%的成長，主要的原因是什麼？"],["朱主計長澤民：因為我們企業界也跟著公教人員還有基本工資調高。"],["李委員彥秀：所以是因為我們增加4%的加薪？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，有帶動民間，而且基本薪資也有提高，所以……"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，因為我們幫公務人員加薪而帶動整個基本工資提高，你覺得帶動整個成長的比例大概有多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個終究是有限，但是有一個……"],["李委員彥秀：差不多幾%啦？你覺得差不多是多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們沒有做這種估計，因為所謂的軍公教人員大概只有五、六十萬人，但是全國的……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，但我的意思是我們整個經濟成長2.39%，有多少是因為基本工資提高而整個經濟帶動起來？是因為加薪4%、民間也加薪，所以整個經濟往上走？"],["朱主計長澤民：那部分我們沒有做，也很難去區分，因為調薪的原因有很多。但是會不會帶動實質薪資成長？我必須說明應該是要看CPI的成長情況，如果CPI維持趨緩的趨勢，實質薪資就可能會轉正，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，你講到重點了，CPI很重要，我們1、2月的經常性薪資是2.39%，消費者物價指數是2.74%，所以物價通膨還是把整個加薪成果往下拖，我們人民的實際薪資還是「倒退嚕」。主計長，我們今年3月公布CPI是2.14%，到底第一季有沒有機會讓實質薪資轉正？"],["朱主計長澤民：是有機會，但是我不敢肯定，因為最新的資料……"],["李委員彥秀：但是我們副處長說有機會轉正啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：是有機會啦！但是我們3月份的薪資調查資料要到下個月5號才能出來。"],["李委員彥秀：我就繼續接著問。我上次問你，我們今年度整個實質薪資到底整年會怎麼樣？你覺得今（2024）年的薪資有沒有可能轉正？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們希望轉正，但是有不確定的因素，不確定的因素是因為目前國際間的油價在往上。"],["李委員彥秀：只有這個因素嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：這是一個滿大的因素，以及國際間會不會受到一些……"],["李委員彥秀：所以你覺得今年實質薪資轉正的比例大概是多少？因為你去年回答50、50。"],["朱主計長澤民：我只能說有機會。"],["李委員彥秀：有機會是差不多多少啦？你預估、預測，主計長最會預測啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：那個預測具有不確定性的因素，萬一油價又往上，因為前些時候大家預計油價大概在80塊，可是最近一、兩天的油價已經到91塊，所以油價是一個不確定性因素。還有一個很重要的是美國的利息是不是往上調。"],["李委員彥秀：所以看起來今年實質薪資要轉正還是面臨相當多的挑戰，我覺得整個政府在經濟層面上要努力的空間還是很大，挑戰性還是很高就對了。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我非常同意委員的想法，也請大家要注意，所以行政院有一個物價督導會報，都是由副院長主持的。"],["李委員彥秀：主計長，我還是要提醒你，最近雖然電價漲一點點，但其實間接的漲幅、通膨、後續的影響及衝擊非常大，我覺得整個行政單位還是要注意，謝謝。"],["朱主計長澤民：是的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李彥秀委員的質詢。","接著我們請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.337218750000002,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.77096875,"end":17.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.80846875,"end":20.348468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.75346875,"end":22.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.879718750000002,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.59096875,"end":41.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.032843750000005,"end":42.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.02846875,"end":43.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.07471875,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.85596875,"end":69.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.70784375000001,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.79721875000001,"end":176.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.25221875,"end":178.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.87221875,"end":180.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.69471875000002,"end":188.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.62596875,"end":192.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.05971875,"end":208.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.74096875,"end":210.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.76596875,"end":221.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.41409375,"end":228.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.16409375,"end":239.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.89221875,"end":258.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.47159375,"end":259.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.60221875,"end":266.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.06096875000003,"end":270.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.87471875,"end":277.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.51096875,"end":277.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.97909375,"end":280.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.08409375,"end":281.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.46784375000004,"end":283.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.41221875,"end":308.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.25096875,"end":293.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.13034375,"end":317.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.36534375,"end":340.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.90596875,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.30221875,"end":357.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.76409375000003,"end":376.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.02784375000005,"end":371.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.32659375000003,"end":381.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.89534375000005,"end":402.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.09471875,"end":406.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.44846875,"end":412.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.38846875,"end":415.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.78909375,"end":414.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.72971875,"end":416.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.15159375,"end":420.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.26534375,"end":418.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.72909375,"end":422.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.82971875000004,"end":427.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.31909375000004,"end":424.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.68159375000005,"end":435.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.61284375,"end":442.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.46034375000005,"end":439.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.70909375,"end":440.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.47659375,"end":442.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.35409375,"end":452.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.82659375000003,"end":443.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.94471875000005,"end":443.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.97346875000005,"end":449.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.47096875000005,"end":470.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.06721875000005,"end":503.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.49659375000005,"end":508.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.08221875000004,"end":513.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.6215937500001,"end":518.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.2453437500001,"end":519.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.9622187500001,"end":523.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.16471875,"end":527.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.32409375,"end":538.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.3984687500001,"end":541.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.1615937500001,"end":543.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.78159375,"end":557.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.99034375,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.96846875,"end":562.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.17909375,"end":565.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.9340937500001,"end":572.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.26284375,"end":568.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.31284375,"end":594.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.82534375,"end":586.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.60909375,"end":594.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.6384687500001,"end":622.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.25409375,"end":597.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.37659375,"end":630.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.31221875,"end":633.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.5859687500001,"end":643.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.52534375,"end":654.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.3928437500001,"end":664.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.72471875,"end":664.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.7878437500001,"end":665.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.90596875,"end":666.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.2097187500001,"end":665.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.58096875,"end":666.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.0322187500001,"end":667.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.6397187500002,"end":668.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.80409375,"end":676.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.3134687500001,"end":681.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.0090937500001,"end":683.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.7890937500001,"end":688.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.43034375,"end":684.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.4553437500001,"end":688.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.75034375,"end":713.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.09659375,"end":714.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.65346875,"end":728.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.5890937500001,"end":721.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":724.7109687500001,"end":726.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.9890937499999,"end":739.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.41346875,"end":746.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.83409375,"end":753.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.0234687500001,"end":751.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.23409375,"end":753.2465937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.043,"end":0.644,"text":"謝謝,我可不可以請主委?黃主委委員長"},{"start":20.839,"end":26.362,"text":"黃主委您是在金管會的位置上最久的一位主委不管在藍綠的委員當中其實對於您的評價其實私底下都給予很多的肯定我覺得這一點"},{"start":44.25,"end":46.172,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":67.374,"end":77.763,"text":"應該有的一些底線的堅持我看到您的努力喔那昨天我聽到召委在質詢的時候您說您比較掛心了兩個重要的政策一個是虛擬資產的專法還有包括BNPL先買後付這兩件事重要的政策其實都會影響到我們資產的穩定度"},{"start":89.213,"end":116.423,"text":"所以面對包括中國大陸在這段時間從去年前年開始疫情之後景氣的不穩定的狀況包括歐美國家包括好幾間銀行金融的狀況我覺得我們整體臺灣的金融業相對的是穩定的所以主委你也說你會拼到5月19號但是我們也看到資本的穩定市場穩定其實還有一個很重要的因素就是我們的保險業的穩健"},{"start":117.763,"end":144.448,"text":"在這一塊無論是前段時間我跟您的答詢過程當中我看到您的堅持那臺灣在保險業的穩健的部分包括臺灣保險的滲透率的部分這個比例相對是非常高的包括在臺灣我們平均每個國人都有2.6張保單所以除了過去對於保險法我們RBC要達到200%其實你的立場"},{"start":147.188,"end":153.81,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案2案。主委,您在5月19號即將功成身退。在本週二16號的時候,我們也公布了2026要跟ICS接軌第三階段在地化的過渡性措施。主委,"},{"start":177.301,"end":186.324,"text":"你會不會擔心你在這一段時間包括在保險業者你要求的法定的這個市主力RBC要達到200%還有我們跟ICS的接軌你會不會擔心人去政協"},{"start":194.273,"end":220.756,"text":"我想第一點有關保險資本市主律其實它是現在明定於保險法那什麼程度那該做什麼處理這叫立即糾正措施都明定的這是我們必須要依法去處理那至於說接軌的部分我想我們過去的態度就是考慮國情並不是把國外的規範完全不考慮就全部套在國內業者上也給了三個階段的相關的措施"},{"start":221.497,"end":235.613,"text":"那我想這部分我盡力了當然我想未來的彭主委他比我對保險更專精他是保險專家你會不會擔心他因為過去他在媒體上對於這些可能有不同的看法你會不會擔心這些因為這是你過去所堅持的那你會不會擔心會打折扣"},{"start":239.966,"end":262.07,"text":"其實我過去也跟彭老師也常請教了那我覺得有些意見我也都接納他的想法那當然他將來接了這個主委的位置他當然會對一些政策有他的想法我昨天也報告過那我們尊重未來彭主委的想法好那到6月底前報告保險業達到RCP達到200%你會持續的推動嗎"},{"start":267.757,"end":270.418,"text":"這個沒有妥協的空間該做什麼就做什麼。"},{"start":287.458,"end":308.472,"text":"主席長好主席長我先就一個小議題請教您就是在這一次衛福部公告護理人員夜班的獎勵方案這本來是要鼓勵醫護人員留任的政策跟方案後來我們也看到引起很多的反彈因為本來是要幫大夜班"},{"start":309.652,"end":335.924,"text":"大小夜班都有增加一些補助的費用但是後來引起區醫院跟地區醫院很多的反彈因為在醫學中心的部分實在是增加的那個獎勵金實在太高這也造成區醫院跟地區醫院的護理人員流動的流失非常的快所以新的方案已經出來了那會需要增加到1.13億元的預算健保署表示會積極的爭取那爭取當然是要跟主計處爭取那"},{"start":339.365,"end":350.3,"text":"這個部分的我聽到好像卡在主計處你這邊沒有沒有沒有沒有我們原來就有113就有編那個好一個軍會阿另外一個"},{"start":350.93,"end":370.438,"text":"他是要再次說到底應該是由他的那個就是說我們在那個特別預算裡面也變一筆錢還是要在總額裡面決定那個是由衛福部來決定的因為最後講到錢的問題都喜歡說是主計總處"},{"start":371.758,"end":387.24,"text":"都是你去決定對對沒有我們有因為我們的御師但是從衛福部去處理還是從特別預算處理現在還沒橋定這個行政院還沒決定就對了沒有沒有特別預算也已經在那個就就是以後的有一個特別預算"},{"start":391.784,"end":411.802,"text":"總預算裏面有編一筆錢那個錢都已經在預算裏面所以說他們內部去調因為預算已經通過了不可能說再增加所以跟你沒有關係是跟衛福部有關係所以卡是卡在衛福部不是卡在你這邊我這邊的錢都是大約已經通過了不可能是再增加"},{"start":412.443,"end":418.737,"text":"我知道不能再增加但是就是從衛福部裡面去做決定錢到底是用哪一筆錢特別預算要經過你這邊嗎特別預算也是大院通過的"},{"start":424.171,"end":442.148,"text":"那決定撥給哪些,因為這個是後來才增加證據的。對對對,他要分配啦,那個是那個醫學中心那個區醫院、地區醫院。主席長,這我知道,我們長話短說,因為還有別的議題要請教您。所以這個部分其實衛福部自己就可以決定了。對。"},{"start":443.39,"end":468.686,"text":"好那我清楚了好謝謝那你知道這個預算什麼時候會通過吧因為多拖一天我擔心護理人員留不住那個是衛福部要做一個說快一點他的一個所謂的那個撥款的程序快點怎麼決定去使用這個錢經費都已經在特別預算跟他的健保的總合裡面都已經有了"},{"start":469.847,"end":482.719,"text":"好那所以是卡在衛福部就對了好好那謝謝主席長那我第二個問題要就教主席長主席長我最近看到幾個數字就是我們一二月二月公布的受僱人員的薪資跟人數其實都達到"},{"start":485.041,"end":511.757,"text":"新高都是達到我們過去6年來的第二高平均每人每月有達到46,017元比上去年同期我們增加2.39個的百分點但是我們去年實質總薪資總共下降1.04所以主計長一二月經常性薪資達到2.39的成長主要的原因是什麼那個是因為我們那個"},{"start":513.737,"end":536.39,"text":"就就是說企業界他也跟著像公交人員還有基本工資調高所以是因為我們增加了4%的加薪有帶動民間而且那個基本薪資也有提高那主席長你覺得因為我們幫公務人員加薪而帶動我們整個基本工資提高你覺得那個比例大概帶動整個成長的比例有多少"},{"start":538.891,"end":559.502,"text":"那個終究是有限,但是它是有一個...差不多幾%啦?你覺得差不多多少?那個我們沒有做這種估計,因為那個公教陵園只佔大概只有大概五、六十萬人但是那個所謂的軍公教陵只有五、六十萬人但是全國的那個...我知道,但是我的意思是說我們整個經濟的成長2.39%多少是因為"},{"start":564.224,"end":588.498,"text":"我們基本工資提高而整個經濟帶動起來是因為加薪4%民間也加薪所以整個經濟往上走那個是我們沒有做很難去分因為他的調薪的原因有很多但是會不會實質薪資成長我必須說明那應該是看那個CPI的成長情況如果CPI的維持的這個趨緩的趨勢"},{"start":591.179,"end":596.123,"text":"指數是2.74所以其實物價通膨還是把這個加薪啊還是整個還是把它往下拖所以我們人民的實際薪資其實還是倒退路的所以但是主席長"},{"start":616.28,"end":633.99,"text":"我們今年3月公布CBI是2.14那到底第一季有沒有機會實質薪資轉正那個是有機會但是我不敢肯定因為那個是最新的那個資料但是我們副處長說有機會轉正啊是有機會啦是有機會但是我們3月份的調查資料薪資的調查資料要到下個月5號才能夠出來"},{"start":643.575,"end":666.425,"text":"那我們整年度那我就繼續接著問因為我上次問你說我們今年度整個實質總薪資實質薪資到底整年會怎麼樣那你覺得今年2024薪資有沒有可能轉正我們希望轉正啦但是有不確定的因素不確定的因素是因為目前國際間的油價在往上國際間的油價在往上是有這個因素嗎"},{"start":667.886,"end":680.642,"text":"只有這個因素嗎?這個是一個蠻大的一個因素的那個以及那個國際間那個會不會受到一些所以你覺得今年實質薪資轉正的比例大概是多少?我只能夠說有機會啦有機會"},{"start":683.826,"end":688.009,"text":"有機會有機會是差不多多少啦你預估預測主席主席長做過預測啊我不我不那個預測是具有不確定性的因素不確定性的因素如果萬一說有油價因為我們現在前些時候大家預計油價都大概在80塊"},{"start":700.416,"end":701.737,"text":"三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議．有關審計"},{"start":729.81,"end":733.553,"text":"憲政院有一個物價主導匯報,都是由副院長主持。"}]}},{"id":"151396","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151396","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4452c4bd81c3c448c4d8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c940f6f7234e961ca575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:29:20 - 10:34:52","影片長度":"00:05:32","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":332,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:34:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:29:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":473,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：有請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：次長早安。針對今天這個議題，其實本席有另外一種不同的親身經歷，我想法律的修改會隨著時代的變遷而有所變動，這是不變的道理，是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["黃委員建賓：今天會有委員提出要修這個法案，最主要的原因也是要因應整個時代改變而要去做的事情。本席先分享一下本席過去的工作經驗，其實我最早從事政治工作是選鄉民代表，我當時選上鄉民代表才發現一件事情，就是原來山地原住民是投給區域候選人，這也就是今天提案提到的問題。當然每個環境都會有不同的情況，像以臺東來講，它是一個族群多元的地方，但是因為現行的法令沒有辦法兼顧到每一個族群，特別是參政權，這個部分確實要好好來思考，看看怎麼樣讓憲法保障每個人都有參政權的權益都能夠實行。","除此之外，我想還要再跟次長分享另外一件事情，我們剛剛提到的是民選的民意代表，而我們現在講到的是公職人員在臺東的差異性，臺東是一個同工不同酬的地方，以公務人員來講，請教次長，你知道臺東縣的公務人員有幾個不同的加給嗎？有幾種加給，你知道嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：我不太清楚，應該有所謂的偏遠加給吧。"],["黃委員建賓：工資應該都知道，你們不是都有加給嗎？津貼不是都有嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：那是專業加給的部分。"],["黃委員建賓：臺東有幾項？"],["吳次長容輝：臺東應該有增加一個偏遠的加給吧？"],["黃委員建賓：我把答案揭曉一下，臺東有4種，一個叫做東臺加給，從本席退伍的時候在公所當約僱人員開始，630塊到現在一樣是佛心價630塊，都沒漲過，即便現在便當一個都要100塊以上，都沒有漲過；第二個叫做山地加給，也就是會有山地鄉、平地鄉的差別；第三個叫偏遠加給，就是有些地方比較遠，但又沒有辦法到達山地鄉的等級，就用這個方式補貼；另外就是因為臺東有兩個離島，所以有離島加給。一個縣市政府裡面有4種加給，有沒有很精彩？次長，如果你今天是一個剛考上的公務人員，你到臺東去，你除了會選擇離家近以外，會不會因為加給的差別做考量？"],["吳次長容輝：每個人的想法不太一樣。"],["黃委員建賓：基本上會不會？次長，會不會？"],["吳次長容輝：如果委員問我的話，因為每個人的態樣不一樣，如果是在地的話，跟不是在地的想法就不太一樣。"],["黃委員建賓：好，次長，謝謝你的答復。我現在要分享一件事情，臺東縣內有一個特殊的環境，就是我們的山地鄉及平地鄉很多是連在一塊，可能只有差一條路。各位看這張圖表，這是我們關山鎮及海端鄉，左邊的地方是海端鄉，右邊是關山鎮，中間差了一條路，加給就不一樣。我想地方的發展除了錢以外，人是另外一個更重要的發展因素，對吧？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["黃委員建賓：次長，本席建議偏鄉地區本來發展就不容易，人才流動很頻繁，在這樣的情況下，我們更應該想辦法讓人才能夠留在當地協助偏遠地區的發展，我相信離島也是有這樣的獎勵方式，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是，有。"],["黃委員建賓：臺東是不是可以比照這樣的方式？對很多人來講，臺東不管在大武鄉南端或是北端的長濱鄉，對很多臺北人來講，臺東都一樣遠，是吧？"],["吳次長容輝：是。報告委員，有關加給的部分，跟人事單位有關係，其實他們在檢討，我們也會不斷地滾動式檢討這個東西。"],["黃委員建賓：是，本席也知道今天沒有相關部會來，不過也是希望能夠將這個問題帶回去。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["黃委員建賓：包括鍾副主委應該也很瞭解，像我們一樣都是山地鄉，大武鄉跟達仁鄉就是兩個不一樣的方式，就差一條路而已，這樣在公務人員的流動上是很頻繁的，這個也是留下來意願的考量之一。我相信公務人員是地方發展很重要的指標，因為公務人員對地方發展是有很大的幫助的，不要讓臺東淪為新兵訓練中心，每個考試來的外地人經過3年、6年的時間到了就離開，我想這對地方發展是很大的傷害。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["黃委員建賓：也希望相關部會能夠將問題帶回去，在520之後新的閣揆開始我們來討論這件事情，因為畢竟這個跟我們今天討論的山地、平地原住民席次是一樣嚴重的事情。"],["吳次長容輝：委員，這個我們會帶給人事單位去研議。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝次長。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：非常謝謝建賓委員的質詢。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。謝謝次長。我們休息5分鐘，待會繼續開會，謝謝。","休息（10時35分）","繼續開會（10時46分）"],["主席：我們現在繼續開會。","請李柏毅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.9372187499999995,"end":6.764093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.202843750000001,"end":8.282843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.24471875,"end":10.223468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.98659375,"end":14.391593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.982218750000001,"end":15.927218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.51784375,"end":19.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.504718750000002,"end":23.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.85846875,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.148468750000003,"end":31.199093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.40159375,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.15971875,"end":43.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.95659375,"end":44.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.74971875,"end":47.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.64784375,"end":52.259093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.64721875,"end":54.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.38096875,"end":57.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.047218750000006,"end":58.283468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.502843750000004,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.557218750000004,"end":61.860968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.227843750000005,"end":64.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.79284375,"end":68.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.94846875,"end":69.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.75846875,"end":73.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.40346875,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.77034375000001,"end":76.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.42409375000001,"end":83.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.99659375,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.97471875000001,"end":90.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.09284375,"end":91.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.84784375000001,"end":97.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.50096875000001,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.70721875000001,"end":101.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.22596875,"end":103.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.93034375,"end":106.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.79909375000001,"end":108.04784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.85346875,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.23284375,"end":112.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.36784375,"end":113.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.91596875,"end":115.87784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.00034375000001,"end":116.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.02971875,"end":116.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.77221875000001,"end":117.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.02534375,"end":120.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.21471875,"end":121.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.83471875000001,"end":124.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.39534375000001,"end":127.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.56784375,"end":129.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.64784375000002,"end":130.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.21721875,"end":134.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.96346875,"end":144.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.44721875000002,"end":146.57346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.80971875,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.05409375000002,"end":153.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.28534375,"end":157.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.69409375,"end":160.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.83284375000002,"end":161.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.68471875,"end":165.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.74346875,"end":168.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.19034375,"end":168.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.35471875000002,"end":169.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.78909375,"end":173.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.06284375,"end":175.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.83471875,"end":179.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.21784375000001,"end":181.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.23471875,"end":181.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.45409375,"end":181.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.48784375000002,"end":182.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.88846875000002,"end":184.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.96409375000002,"end":184.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.30159375000002,"end":192.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.25409375,"end":198.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.64971875,"end":202.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.72471875000002,"end":207.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.20096875000002,"end":208.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.63534375,"end":213.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.48284375,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.95909375000002,"end":219.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.52409375000002,"end":222.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.37159375000002,"end":224.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.68784375,"end":225.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.53159375,"end":225.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.45971875,"end":231.21846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.02846875,"end":241.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.37721875000003,"end":241.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.66409375,"end":243.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.43159375000002,"end":246.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.59159375000002,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.72221875000002,"end":248.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.07221875000002,"end":250.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.75971875000002,"end":253.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.06284375,"end":255.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.00784375,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.62784375,"end":262.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.58909375,"end":268.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.00596875,"end":274.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.14409375,"end":279.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.08846875,"end":281.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.47221875,"end":284.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.98221875,"end":287.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.74971875,"end":288.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.93096875000003,"end":289.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.97721875,"end":293.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.30159375,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.33096875,"end":312.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.14659375,"end":314.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.27721875000003,"end":315.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.08284375,"end":319.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.99784375,"end":322.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.88346875,"end":323.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.52471875000003,"end":327.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.91284375000004,"end":324.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.05971875,"end":329.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.98784375,"end":330.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.27471875000003,"end":331.96221875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.936,"end":6.177,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":15.088,"end":39.397,"text":"市長早安市長其實今天這個議題本席其實有另外一種不同的親身的經歷那其實我想法律的修改會隨著因為我們時代的變遷而有所變動這是不變的道理嘛是不是那今天會有委員提出要修這個法案最主要原因也是因為要因應整個時代改變而要去做的事情"},{"start":40.357,"end":61.653,"text":"本席先分享一下本席過去的工作經驗我其實最早從事政治工作是選鄉民代表我當時選到鄉民代表才發現一件事情就是原來3D原住民是投給區域這個也就是今天提案提到的問題當然每個環境都會有不同的情況其實我覺得"},{"start":65.839,"end":82.51,"text":"像台中來講他是一個族群突然的地方但是因為現行的法令上他沒有辦法去兼顧到每一個族群特別是他的參政權這個部分確實真的要好好的來思考那怎麼樣讓我們先把保障每個人的參政權這權益都能夠來實行"},{"start":85.029,"end":111.46,"text":"那除此之外我想還要再跟市長來分享另外一件事情就是我們提到的是民選的民意代表部分我們現在講到的是公職人員部分的在台東的差異性台東是一個同工不同酬的地方以公務人員來講我想要請教市長市長你知道台東縣的公務人員有幾個不同的家籍嗎有幾種家籍你知道嗎這個我就不太清楚應該有所謂的黑家籍吧"},{"start":114.932,"end":124.21,"text":"你們不是都有加擠嗎?清貼不是都有嗎?那是專類加擠的部分台中有幾項?台中應該要有增加一個偏廉的加擠吧"},{"start":125.624,"end":148.533,"text":"來,要答案揭曉一下,我們這邊有四種,一個叫做東台佳籍,從本席退伍的時候在公所當業務人員開始到現在,630塊,到現在佛心價一樣630塊都沒漲過,即便現在便當一個都要100塊以上,我們都沒漲過。第二個叫做山地佳籍,也就是會有山地相平向差別,第三個叫偏遠佳籍,"},{"start":149.133,"end":175.16,"text":"就有些地方他比較遠,他沒有辦法到三立相的等級,他用這個方式補貼。另外就是因為臺東有兩個離島,所以有離島佳績。一個縣市政府裡面有四種的佳績,有沒有很精彩?市長,如果你今天是一個剛考上的公務人員,你到臺東去,你會選擇除了離佳績以外,你會不會因為這來做考量?佳績的差別做考量?"},{"start":176.148,"end":202.797,"text":"這個每個人的想法不太一樣基本上會不會啦市長會不會啦市長如果委員問我的話因為每個人的這個太陽不一樣如果是在地的話跟不是在地的想法就不太一樣了市長謝謝你的答覆我現在要分享一件事情台中縣的一個特殊的環境就是我們山地鄉跟北地鄉很多是連在一塊他可能只有差一條路"},{"start":204.758,"end":215.659,"text":"各位看這張圖表,這是我們關山鎮跟我們的海端鄉。左邊的地方他是海端鄉,右邊的是關山鎮。中間這條路他的家籍就不一樣。"},{"start":217.008,"end":243.393,"text":"我講地方的發展除了錢以外,錢以外,人是另外一個更重要的發展因素,對吧?是這樣,等於是建議啦,偏鄉地區本來發展就不容易,人才流動就是很頻繁。更應該是這樣的情況,我們應該要更想辦法讓人才能夠留在當地,協助偏遠地區的發展。我想李導也是有這樣的講義方式嘛,對不對?那台東是不是可以比照這樣的方式?"},{"start":244.845,"end":253.371,"text":"對很多人來講,臺東,不管你在大武鄉南端或是北端的長濱鄉,對很多臺北人來講,臺東都一樣遠。是吧?是。高委員,我想這一部分,有關佳琪的這一部分,應該跟人事單位有關係啦。"},{"start":262.694,"end":279.523,"text":"那其實他們在檢討,我們也會去不斷的滾動式去檢討這個東西啦因為本期是在今天沒有相關部會來不過也是希望能夠將這個問題帶回去包括我們中部主委應該也了解啦像我們一樣都是三立鄉、大武鄉跟達人鄉就是兩個不一樣的方式吧"},{"start":280.123,"end":289.445,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案案例。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案例。"},{"start":301.508,"end":323.98,"text":"每個考試來的外地人三年練的時間大概就離開我想這對地方發展是很大的傷害也希望相關部會能夠將問題帶回去在520之後現在可以開始我們來討論這件事情因為畢竟畢竟這個是我們比現在也是跟我們現在今天討論的這個3D屏蔽人住民的這期是一樣嚴重的事情委員這個我們會帶給人事大會去演繹"},{"start":329.174,"end":329.335,"text":"謝謝市長謝謝委員謝謝"}]}},{"id":"151395","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151395","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445aec7835eb87c96228f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94ef73f5eace86becf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"10:22:11 - 10:29:13","影片長度":"00:07:02","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":422,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:29:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:22:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":429,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（10時22分）謝謝主席，請吳容輝次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：次長，首先先跟您就教大新竹矽谷計畫的問題，行政院規劃桃竹苗大矽谷計畫期程是2024年到2027年，也就是從今年就開始要做這個計畫的規劃，未來預計在四年內可新增6兆產值，就業人口增加14萬人，這個計畫也是即將上任的賴清德總統競選的政見之一。前幾天陳建仁院長也到新竹來視察，他也表示現在桃竹苗地區是臺灣資通訊、半導體、國際物流、生醫、生技等產業的重要群聚區域，也是全球最重要的半導體產業聚落之一，所以本方案不僅是國家未來總體發展重要的一個政策，更應該兼顧地方的需求。我想就教次長，對於新竹縣有兩個產業園區的規劃，在過去一直被延宕，其中竹科三期，也就是工研院附近特定計劃區的一個都市計劃，也已經經過多次內政部小組會議的審查，明天也要在小組會議進行審查。我想請問，因為是從2024年開始，到目前為止，內政部是不是已經針對桃竹苗大矽谷計劃將竹科三期納為這個計劃的規劃之一？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，因為這一部分是國科會那邊在主導，不過據我所瞭解，他們現在是有這個方向要把它納入。"],["林委員思銘：是國科會在主導要不要把它納入？"],["吳次長容輝：是的。"],["林委員思銘：那國科會有沒有跟您討論過？"],["吳次長容輝：這一部分他不會跟我們討論，因為我們是後面的開發方式……"],["林委員思銘：所以內政部完全沒有任何的資訊喔！"],["吳次長容輝：這部分沒有，到目前為止，我得到的資訊是他們有要把它放進去。"],["林委員思銘：我剛才講得很清楚，這是未來的準總統的政見之一，雖然陳建仁院長他要離開了，但是行政院應該也會繼續推動這樣的產業聚落發展。"],["吳次長容輝：會，國發會已經把它納入這兩個計劃。"],["林委員思銘：我想內政部是不是應該更積極地跟國發會去做業務上的銜接及聯繫？"],["吳次長容輝：是，以後在開發的時候我們會……"],["林委員思銘：你們應該更積極地去推動，因為明天就要開會了耶！"],["吳次長容輝：是，明天科三的計劃就是竹科三期的計畫……"],["林委員思銘：所以你應該有政策的指示啊！"],["吳次長容輝：是，明天科三的計劃專案小組會去討論，因為新竹縣政府的補充資料也都送過來了，明天會開第五次的……"],["林委員思銘：內政部的態度如何？"],["吳次長容輝：我們當然支持這個產業的發展，我們一定是支持的，因為……"],["林委員思銘：竹科三期的部分已經延宕三十幾年了。"],["吳次長容輝：對，延很久了。"],["林委員思銘：所以內政部的態度是絕對支持竹科三期的規劃是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：是，我們支持，這個為什麼會延宕那麼久？當然中間一些區段徵收會有一些意見，有些公民團體或者是在地的地主之類的，不過這個問題在溝通後應該慢慢的會解決。"],["林委員思銘：因為時間的關係，本席要在這邊請內政部更積極的加速規劃竹科三期區段徵收的案子，另外也請內政部協助竹北臺知園區─臺灣知識經濟園區開發案，我想臺知園區也一樣非常的重要，我們現在非常重視的就是北臺灣的科技、資訊、金融、經濟和商業，而竹北現在各項發展可以說是非常的快，同時也是所得最高的新興城市之一，很多年輕的朋友，尤其是科技業者，都到竹北來定居以及發展。竹北也有一個 AI 智慧園區，在楊文科縣長的打造之下，已經陸續有很多AI智慧的廠商要進駐。我們也看到現在的準行政院長卓榮泰也宣示他們現在的內閣叫做 AI創新內閣，關於竹北的 AI 智慧園區，其實臺知園區被設定的就是一個  AI 智慧園區的打造，所以臺知園區一樣是很重要，未來內政部是不是一樣也要積極加速來推動這一個產業園區？"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員對這兩個園區的關心，針對未來創新科技產業的發展，我想這兩個園區扮演很重要的角色，這一部分就內政部權管的部分，我們一定會積極來處理。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["吳次長容輝：關於剛剛所提的臺知園區，我們會排在5月份再開專案小組。"],["林委員思銘：5月份？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["林委員思銘：希望你加快腳步。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["林委員思銘：最後，針對今天的議題地方制度法第三十三條的修訂，我的選區新竹縣也同樣有山地原住民搬出山地鄉，到平地來居住，尤其是竹東鎮、關西都有非常多的山地原住民戶籍設在非山地鄉，所以這一次的修法對於原民來講，我想保障他們的權益非常的重要。我們看到彰化縣沒有山地鄉，但是它有3,100名的山地原住民，而他們卻沒有辦法選出山地原住民的議員，所以現行的法令確實有漏洞。就這部分的修法，次長是不是完全同意？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，今天有三位委員都有提修法的版本，基本上，我剛剛特別報告過我們的態度開放，我們也持……"],["林委員思銘：不是開放而已，你要同意啊！我們都把問題點出來了！"],["吳次長容輝：我們認為這一個方向……"],["林委員思銘：所以行政院認為沒有問題，也支持這個法案的修正吧！"],["吳次長容輝：是，我們會朝這個方向來做。"],["林委員思銘：好，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。"],["林委員思銘：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝林思銘委員的質詢，謝謝次長。","繼續請黃建賓委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.228468750000001,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.83971875,"end":9.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.93596875,"end":20.820968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.17534375,"end":26.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.84534375,"end":30.794093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.03034375,"end":33.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.83159375,"end":39.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.518468750000004,"end":41.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.30284375,"end":45.087218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.27284375,"end":46.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.85909375,"end":48.580343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.91784375,"end":70.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.87221875,"end":71.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.15471875,"end":75.83346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.25534375000001,"end":98.78346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.80034375000001,"end":105.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.51659375000001,"end":124.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.95659375000001,"end":135.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.52471875,"end":134.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.17846875,"end":138.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.83221875,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.43971875,"end":138.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.65909375,"end":140.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.04284375,"end":140.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.88659375,"end":142.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.81034375000002,"end":147.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.15159375000002,"end":148.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.78409375,"end":153.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.93096875,"end":157.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.82909375,"end":167.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.84596875,"end":158.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.65471875,"end":170.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.94096875000002,"end":178.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.09159375000002,"end":182.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.10846875000001,"end":181.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.10784375,"end":183.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.12471875,"end":183.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.05284375000002,"end":187.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.70659375000002,"end":188.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.05221875,"end":188.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.03096875,"end":198.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.43909375,"end":196.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.92409375000003,"end":199.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.40471875,"end":205.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.01596875,"end":207.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.07034375,"end":208.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.84221875,"end":214.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.64721875,"end":227.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.88346875000002,"end":215.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.58221875,"end":235.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.33284375000002,"end":228.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.38659375,"end":238.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.40721875000003,"end":239.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.30159375000002,"end":256.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.81784375,"end":286.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.70346875,"end":314.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.24346875000003,"end":335.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.25346875,"end":333.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.80971875,"end":338.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.53534375000004,"end":337.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.29034375000003,"end":341.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.21846875,"end":339.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.42909375000005,"end":341.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.96909375,"end":381.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.79409375,"end":382.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.29596875000004,"end":395.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.40784375000004,"end":402.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.78284375000004,"end":400.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.97221875,"end":407.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.81971875000005,"end":418.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.89534375000005,"end":409.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.41409375,"end":414.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.74659375000005,"end":416.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.61534375,"end":418.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.73346875000004,"end":418.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.96971875,"end":419.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.00346875,"end":421.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.05409375000005,"end":419.99909375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.253,"end":9.496,"text":"好謝謝我們主席我們請吳文明吳次長有請吳次長委員好市長我想我首先先跟您就教我們這個大新竹矽谷計畫的問題我想行政院規劃這個桃竹苗大矽谷計畫期程是2024年到2027年也就從今年就開始要做這個計畫的一個規劃"},{"start":34.114,"end":42.7,"text":"未來預計在4年內可新增6兆的產值,就業人口增加了14萬人。這個計劃也是我們即將上任的賴清德總統他競選的政見之一"},{"start":48.965,"end":71.665,"text":"那麼前幾天陳建仁院長也到新竹來做視察他也表示說現在桃竹苗地區是台灣之通訊、半導體、國際物流、生醫生技等產業的重要群聚區域也是我們全球最重要的半導體產業聚落之一所以本方案"},{"start":72.225,"end":84.991,"text":"不僅是國家未來總體發展的重要的一個政策更應該兼顧我們地方的一個需求所以我想就教次長對於我們新竹縣有兩個產業園區的規劃在過去一直被延宕"},{"start":88.573,"end":97.322,"text":"其中竹科三期也就是我們公園院附近的一個特定計劃區的一個都市計劃那麼也已經經過多次在內政部小組會議的一個審查那麼在明天也要在小組會來做審查"},{"start":108.334,"end":121.366,"text":"我想請問,因為是從2020開始嘛,到目前為止,內政部是不是已經把這個桃竹苗大細股計劃將竹科三期納入為這個計劃的這個規劃之一?"},{"start":124.957,"end":126.078,"text":"國科會有沒有跟您討論過?"},{"start":142.864,"end":167.289,"text":"因為這一部分他不會跟我們討論因為我們是後面的所以你內政部完全沒有任何的資訊因為這一部分沒有我們到目前為止我得到的資訊是他有要把他放進去我想我剛才講得很清楚這是未來的準總統以及陳昇仁院長他要離開了但是我想這個行政院應該也會去繼續推動這樣的一個產業的一個聚落的一個發展在國發會已經把他納入這兩個的計畫有"},{"start":171.01,"end":199.424,"text":"所以我想內政部是不是應該更積極的跟我們的國發會去做這個這個銜接業務上的聯繫積極的更積極的去推動因為明天就要開會了欸是那明天柯山的計畫明天柯山的計畫在專案小組會去討論那因為這些新竹縣政府的補充資料也都送過來了這是明天會開定制的那內政部的態度如何"},{"start":200.458,"end":224.944,"text":"我們當然支持這個產業的發展,我們一定是支持的所以對竹科三期的,因為延宕已經三十幾年了所以內政部的態度是絕對支持竹科三期的規劃是,我們支持啦,因為這個為什麼會延宕那麼久那中間大概有一些七段徵收會有一些意見吧有些公民團體或者是這個在地的有一些地主或怎麼樣"},{"start":225.784,"end":226.184,"text":"案案案案案案"},{"start":247.276,"end":274.219,"text":"也一樣非常的重要我想我們現在非常重視的就是我們北台灣的科技、資訊、金融、經濟和商業那竹北現在是我們全台不管是這個各項的發展可以說是非常的快也就是所得最高的一個新興的城市之一很多年輕的朋友尤其是我們科技業者都到竹北來定居以及發展"},{"start":274.659,"end":302.77,"text":"那麼我們竹北也有一個AI的智慧園區在我們楊文科縣長的打造之下也已經陸續有很多AI智慧的廠商要進駐那我們也看到現在的準行政院長朱文泰也宣誓說他們現在的內閣叫做AI創新的一個內閣所以我們竹北這個AI智慧園區這個台資園區它其實被設定的就是一個AI智慧園區的一個打造"},{"start":303.47,"end":329.246,"text":"所以台資園區一樣是很重要所以未來我們內政部是不是一樣也要積極加速來推動這個產業園區是謝謝委員對這兩個園區的這個關係因為未來這個創新科技產業的發展我想這兩個園區的扮演了很重要的角色那這一部分就內政部全管的部分那我們一定會積極來來來來是好不好"},{"start":332.228,"end":338.094,"text":"三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":356.391,"end":374.446,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條條文修正草案：一、審查委"},{"start":382.092,"end":383.754,"text":"三地原住民,卻無法選出三地原住民的議員。」"},{"start":396.791,"end":417.718,"text":"報告委員我想今天有三位委員都有提這個修法的版本那基本上我剛剛特別報告過我們態度開放那我們也持這一個不是開放而已阿你要同意阿我們都把問題點出來了阿我們認為這一個方向我們朝這個方向沒有問題啦也支持這個法案的修正我們朝這個方向謝謝謝謝主席謝謝林市民委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"151394","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151394","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44556f2ef4fb1b71c5d8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c940b16ca848615eb905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"10:13:49 - 10:22:06","影片長度":"00:08:17","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":497,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:22:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:13:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":394,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時13分）主席，我們請次長。"],["主席：好，有請吳次長，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：次長早，今天討論地方制度法，因為剛才有說，不管什麼事情都是因為特定人要選舉，我覺得如果有這種想法的話，這個法就修不下去了。剛才我也有聽到，我們原住民要到平地服務，以我來說，我也有服務到我們的原住民，因為長久以來我覺得服務應該是不分你我，也不分什麼黨，不管你是外來的新住民也好、客家人也好、原住民也好，如果有需要，我們都要去服務，只是差別在於這個選舉，他們覺得不是選擇自己的人，所以沒這麼積極，才會這麼被動。","本席要跟你們討論這件事情，你們把這個草案拿出來，你們有和當地會受到影響的縣市討論過嗎？次長。"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我是不是請我們民政司先跟您補充說明？"],["主席：請代理司長，謝謝。"],["王委員美惠：好，來。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：關於這個部分，我們內部一直有在研議各個版本會影響的……"],["王委員美惠：我現在是要問你們，會被影響到的縣市，不管是他們本身的議員，像剛才所討論的，如果你們要外加的部分，縣議會議員不會影響到譬如他一個人所有的付出，包含薪水也好、助理也好，外加的是中央要出，還是地方政府出？我現在是要問，你們這樣會影響到縣市，你們有跟他們討論過嗎？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：以往有議員相關費用要不要增加的部分，我們有跟地方討論過……"],["王委員美惠：那他們的意思呢？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：因為涉及到地方的財政，很多都希望中央能夠補助，不過這是地方應該支出的部分。"],["王委員美惠：對，你們算是有去問會受到影響的縣市，他們大部分都反對，如果外加的經費是由中央支出時，他們就願意了嗎？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：對，基本上因為涉及到議員，縣市政府大概都不會直接表達反對，但對於增加支出的部分希望中央來補助地方，基本態度大概是這樣。"],["王委員美惠：對啦！這就是跟我們民代要加助理費一樣……"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是。"],["王委員美惠：大家都不敢反對、不敢說出真心話，就是剛才你說的這樣，沒有人會反對。不過本席要跟你討論的是，我們族群融合有需要區分山地、平地？如果是這樣，我覺得未來你們要再審慎評估一下新住民的權利和選舉；你試想，平地原住民就不要給普通的民意代表服務了，換做新住民的想法，他可能覺得自己是外來的，自己是越南人、大陸人，還是哪裡人……他們也可能需要馬來西亞人過來，有這種可能嗎？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是，有關要不要打破山地原住民跟平地原住民，民間也大概有過這種聲音，我們也請原民會評估這方面的意見，但是基本上原民會經過討論，目前還沒有共識。"],["王委員美惠：目前沒有共識？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是。"],["王委員美惠：我最主要是說，因為要修這個法，我相信今天主席也會覺得該給他們的福利，我們要去爭取，不過我們也要平等嘛，不然我們常常說轉型正義、族群融合，常常說這陣子比較有在關心，未來……你不要說沒有喔！新住民有可能有喔！如果新住民有，之後馬來西亞也說需要一個，看你們未來要怎麼處理？所以本席在這裡提供意見，你們研議時要把順便新住民研議下去。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：相關的可能性我們大概都會列入考慮，謝謝委員。"],["王委員美惠：對啦！因為我覺得這種很難去認定，像你說的，沒有人敢反對啦！不過好的、該說的、該支持的也要支持，所以今天本席在這裡，我也支持原住民，他們覺得自己的環境和屬性需要他們自己的人來支持他參選，這個大家都沒意見。因此，我要跟政次說，我們嘉義有23個議員，現在原住民有1,292個，剛好再有200個進來之後就有1,500個了，當有一席原住民名額時，是要內含，還是要外加？這是有可能的，政次，只針對我們嘉義就好了，這樣怎麼辦？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，剛剛委員提的當然也有可能，不是不可能，不過我們要就先決條件先去討論，現在委員講山原跟平原是不是要打破，也就是把它合在一塊，我想這個都可以討論，就像剛剛……"],["王委員美惠：因為我認為族群融合、時空背景不同，以前的原住民在山上討生活非常辛苦，你也知道為什會稱之為山地原住民及平地原住民的由來，我認為政府應該要把他們融入一個大家庭，區分得太清楚也不好。"],["吳次長容輝：是，這個我們會納入研議，一起討論的時候我們會……"],["王委員美惠：針對我剛才所講的，也希望你們能夠同意，針對嘉義的部分是不是有可能？到目前為止，你看是會外加還是23個會減1個？是不是有這樣的可能性？"],["吳次長容輝：不管是內含或外加，現在顯然外加會是一個比較可行的方案，這是以現在來看，但是還沒確定，所以我們不曉得，我們這樣評估……"],["王委員美惠：雖然還沒確定，但是大部分都支持不動現有的席次，然後增加平地原住民的席次，這樣才對啦！"],["吳次長容輝：以現在的方案是這樣子。"],["王委員美惠：好，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員，謝謝次長。","繼續請林思銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.72659375,"end":5.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.308468750000001,"end":8.012843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.004093750000003,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.62846875,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.024718750000002,"end":16.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.00721875,"end":18.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.25159375,"end":20.669093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.37784375,"end":22.137218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.59284375,"end":25.731593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.95096875,"end":27.199718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.48659375,"end":28.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.684718750000002,"end":32.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.03846875,"end":33.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.78096875,"end":34.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.14784375,"end":38.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.400343750000005,"end":40.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.39596875,"end":42.657218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.095968750000004,"end":44.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.64846875,"end":45.846593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.150343750000005,"end":47.297843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.64784375,"end":56.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.14034375000001,"end":62.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.41346875000001,"end":66.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.00784375,"end":68.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.64034375,"end":70.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.10846875,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.82971875,"end":75.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.64784375,"end":78.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.37721875000001,"end":81.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.72284375000001,"end":82.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.63409375,"end":83.81534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.35534375,"end":85.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.39721875000001,"end":87.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.94971875,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.32471875,"end":92.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.72534375000001,"end":94.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.26096875,"end":95.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.47159375000001,"end":96.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.58971875,"end":96.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.79221875,"end":101.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.69471875,"end":100.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.79159375,"end":100.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.82534375,"end":100.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.97721875,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.39909375,"end":101.92221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.92221875000001,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.56346875000001,"end":102.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.59721875000001,"end":102.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.95159375,"end":102.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.04846875000001,"end":111.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.43159375,"end":115.87784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.28284375000001,"end":126.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.93971875000001,"end":124.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.98159375,"end":129.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.90096875,"end":131.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.17909375000002,"end":134.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.77784375000002,"end":137.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.27534375000002,"end":139.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.99221875,"end":141.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.30409375000002,"end":149.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.61096875,"end":169.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.67284375,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.97909375,"end":170.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.63721875000002,"end":178.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.77096875,"end":184.00221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.00221875000003,"end":184.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.45784375000002,"end":184.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.52534375000002,"end":185.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.11596875,"end":185.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.13284375,"end":185.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.62221875,"end":185.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.95971875,"end":186.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.05659375000002,"end":200.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.50659375,"end":197.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.93659375000001,"end":203.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.56034375000002,"end":204.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.06659375,"end":204.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.11721875,"end":211.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.80471875,"end":205.93971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.95659375000002,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.96409375000002,"end":214.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.17034375,"end":218.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.81534375,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.32971875,"end":223.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.89471875,"end":225.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.20659375000002,"end":229.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.02034375000002,"end":231.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.74159375000002,"end":232.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.17596875,"end":233.74971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.40784375,"end":235.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.04471875000002,"end":236.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.12471875000003,"end":237.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.88409375,"end":246.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.60846875000001,"end":251.01284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.38409375,"end":252.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.30784375000002,"end":253.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.53971875000002,"end":255.68721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.00784375,"end":257.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.74596875000003,"end":258.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.12971875,"end":275.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.95409375,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.97096875,"end":280.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.93221875,"end":282.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.77159375,"end":284.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.74159375,"end":286.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.00721875,"end":287.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.44159375000004,"end":292.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.30159375,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.44909375000003,"end":295.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.40659375,"end":299.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.83221875000004,"end":304.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.92846875000004,"end":307.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.52721875000003,"end":308.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.77596875,"end":310.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.64909375,"end":312.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.20971875000004,"end":316.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.57221875000005,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.02596875,"end":329.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.22846875000005,"end":329.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.43096875000003,"end":330.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.08471875000004,"end":335.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.32471875000005,"end":337.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.75471875,"end":336.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.64909375,"end":339.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.64034375,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.97346875,"end":343.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.60159375,"end":345.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.15409375,"end":347.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.06096875000003,"end":350.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.09846875,"end":354.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.50721875000005,"end":355.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.04284375000003,"end":359.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.56971875000005,"end":361.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.91534375000003,"end":363.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.85596875000005,"end":365.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.83034375,"end":368.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.74971875,"end":370.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.17971875,"end":375.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.55034375,"end":376.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.05221875,"end":381.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.57034375,"end":385.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.37159375000005,"end":394.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.54721875,"end":396.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.50471875000005,"end":398.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.61846875000003,"end":400.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.72346875000005,"end":402.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.39409375,"end":413.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.93784375,"end":407.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.22784375000003,"end":419.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.61534375,"end":437.93721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.42471875,"end":423.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.24096875000004,"end":442.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.96596875,"end":447.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.79221875,"end":450.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.49221875,"end":453.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.39471875000004,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.29721875,"end":458.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.65971875,"end":461.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.16971875,"end":466.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.67534375,"end":468.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.15596875000006,"end":471.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.77159375,"end":474.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.65721875,"end":481.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.62721875000005,"end":478.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.71971875,"end":485.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.04784375,"end":492.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.89096875,"end":493.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.46034375000005,"end":493.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.30409375000005,"end":493.59096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.58659375,"end":496.96596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.77221875000004,"end":494.85659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.85659375000006,"end":494.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.97471875,"end":495.48096875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.752,"end":7.955,"text":"主席,我們請次長。好,有請吳次長,謝謝。委員好。嗨,次長,早晨。次長,今天討論我們這個地方制度法裡面,因為,剛才我說,因為,不管什麼事情,都因為特定人要選。我認為,如果有這個想法,這個想法,想不下去了。"},{"start":35.526,"end":38.069,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具"},{"start":48.697,"end":49.697,"text":"審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具"},{"start":69.842,"end":83.014,"text":"他的選舉,他覺得我不是選我自己的人,所以沒這麼積極、這麼被動。在這裡面,我們想要跟你參考這件事說,你們在這個草案揭出來,你們如果當地會應用到的官司去討論過嗎?來,市長。"},{"start":97.141,"end":99.928,"text":"報告委員我是不是請我們民政事務部長我再訪問"},{"start":104.693,"end":119.403,"text":"這個部分我們內部一直有在研議說各個版本會影響的...沒有啦!我現在是要問你們說會應用到、會貫徹、不管是一般性的議員像剛才所討論的說跟現有的議員不會應用到你們要外傭的嘛在外傭裡面這個譬如說一個人"},{"start":129.95,"end":157.68,"text":"他所有的付出的薪水也好、助力也好外債是中央要出還是地方政府要出我現在是在問你你這樣在這個官司的應用中你有去跟他們討論過嗎來啦以往有這個議員的一個相關的這個費用要不要增加的部分我們有跟地方討論過"},{"start":160.461,"end":179.137,"text":"因為涉及到地方的財政,很多是希望說中央能夠補助,不過因為這是因為地方應該支出的一個部分。對,那你算說有應用到的關係,你有去問臺北農團隊,主要如果外債的經費是中央來支出的時候,他們又買了嗎?來"},{"start":187.744,"end":199.533,"text":"對,基本上因為涉及到議員的部分,縣市政府大概都不會直接表達反對,但是要增加支出的部分是希望中央來補助的。對啦,這就是跟我們明代一屆的組理會一樣啦,大家都不敢反對啦,不敢說出真心話啦,就是剛才你說的這樣啦,沒有人會反對啦。"},{"start":212.023,"end":232.46,"text":"但本席要跟你討論的是,在這個我們的族群融合裡面,有需要去分三個、八個,你如果這樣未來,我是覺得你要慎慎再去評估一個,新住民的權利、他的選舉,"},{"start":236.209,"end":243.476,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":260.047,"end":273.692,"text":"有關要不要打破三地原住民跟平地原住民,大概民間也有過這種聲音,那我們也請那個原民會評估這方面的一個意見,但是原民會大概基本上是經過討論,目前還沒有共識。"},{"start":276.613,"end":282.015,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草"},{"start":296.74,"end":304.088,"text":"不然我們常常說財政正義跟族群融合,常常跟這群人有關心跟在這邊的未來,你不跟我說嗎?這新住民有可能有喔!"},{"start":314.758,"end":329.701,"text":"三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員賴士葆等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條"},{"start":344.673,"end":345.254,"text":"案。三、審查委員"},{"start":348.557,"end":374.586,"text":"案。三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等21人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、"},{"start":377.37,"end":394.113,"text":"現在有關主民有一千兩百九十二人,那鄉鄉剛好有兩百人進來的時候,還有一千五個人,有一個關主民的時候,是要加掛在裡面,還是要外掛?有這麼可能的,甚至我如果批論說我自己就好了,這樣勒?"},{"start":403.964,"end":409.648,"text":"報告委員,剛剛委員提到當然這個有可能不是不可能不過就是說我們先去調整一下先去討論現在委員講說這個三眼跟平眼一起是不是要打破就把它合在一塊我想這個都可以討論因為我感覺族群融合的時候我感覺時空背景不一樣以前的觀眾朋友說實在在三年討價的生活是非常辛苦你也知道是怎樣"},{"start":431.92,"end":436.044,"text":"會合作所定的官署名及本地的官署名的由來。所以我也希望說,你們做政府的人應該是要來融入一個大家庭啦。睡了太清晨這樣也不好啦。是,這個我們會拿出原意啦,一起討論的時候。因為我剛才說的嘛,"},{"start":456.543,"end":456.703,"text":"審查委員"},{"start":471.84,"end":481.871,"text":"不然內涵或外加,現在顯然外加是會是一個比較可行的方案,所以以現在來看,但是還沒確定我們不曉得。對,還沒確定,還是台北都支持在無黨憲議會,再給這個關注民的平台的旗幟,這樣就對了。以現在的方案是這樣子。好,謝謝你們,會議員,謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"151393","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151393","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4457c21dd325de15f818f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94fa2dab58134a338c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"10:06:05 - 10:13:39","影片長度":"00:07:34","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":454,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:13:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T10:06:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":355,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（10時6分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：次長好。今天討論地方制度法，雖然是有關乎我們原民的同胞、原民的夥伴議員席次的問題，不過當我們在討論地方制度法的時候，跟我們整個國家的發展、區域的規劃息息相關的就是各個縣市，乃至於都，在地方自治的單位上我們要怎麼劃設的事情。","有一個我覺得是非常嚴肅的問題，但這個嚴肅的問題，隨著選舉的炒作浮上檯面了以後，現在似乎沒有人要提了，也就是新竹市、新竹縣竹竹合併，民進黨政府還要不要再推動？我們先回顧一下，2021年9月6號的時候，前新竹市長林智堅接受媒體專訪，大篇幅的倡議新竹市跟新竹縣要合併，這個只是林智堅他個人的意見嗎？看起來好像也不是，這個時候民主進步黨的府院高層說，竹竹合併要由中央由上而下來加以推動。請教一下次長，這個政策的目標跟政策的方向有沒有任何改變？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，有關於合併要升格為直轄市的部分，現在有兩個機制，一個是由上而下，一個是由下而上嘛！"],["黃委員國昌：這個我知道。"],["吳次長容輝：對……"],["黃委員國昌：一樣的事情就不要再講了，我已經點出來啊！當初府院高層，民主進步黨政府說這個是要由上而下來加以推動，所以我才問你政策立場有沒有改變啊！"],["吳次長容輝：目前這部分，我沒有接收到這個政策有改變。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有接收到這個政策有改變？好，那非常的好。","從2021年到目前為止2024年，蔡政府已經要下臺啦！既然政策方向沒有改變，過去這兩年多具體而言，請問你們做了什麼？還是只是在媒體上面放話，配合選舉炒作，實際上什麼事情都沒幹？如果政策方向沒有改變的話，你們就有必要具體地告訴國人，針對竹竹合併由上而下推動，政策方向沒有改變，那請問我們的主管機關做了什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，不管是由上而下或者由下而上，都必須要尊重民意，這部分一定……"],["黃委員國昌：這不是我的問題啊！你剛剛說政策方向沒改變，由上而下，竹竹合併嘛！我的問題是這是在媒體上放話，還是有具體的作為？所以我請教你的是，過去這兩年多，你們具體的作為是什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，因為我們現在也正在推行政區劃的程序法，目前……"],["黃委員國昌：你們在推行政區劃程序法，好，目前推動的進度如何？"],["吳次長容輝：現在在行政院那邊審查。"],["黃委員國昌：你們行政院快要下臺啦！行政院還在審查啊！"],["吳次長容輝：它審查有提供意見給我們，要補附資料上去。"],["黃委員國昌：對啦！所以我就說嘛！你們行政院519就要下臺了，結果現在還在打高空說空話，說你們在規劃行政區劃法，這不是很可笑嗎？除了你們還在研擬的行政區劃法以外，你剛剛說政策方向沒有改變，由上而下推動沒有改變，你還是沒有回答我的問題！具體而言，過去這兩年多中央政府做了什麼？我要的是中央政府做了什麼？請告訴大家，你們如何推動這個方向沒有改變的政策，過去兩年多做了什麼？請告訴大家。"],["吳次長容輝：所以這也就是為什麼剛剛跟委員報告，現在我們在推行政區劃程序法，只要這個完成之後，就有法源的依據來處理這個問題。"],["黃委員國昌：所以顯然在蔡政府519下臺以前是不可能完成的嘛！我有沒有說錯？"],["吳次長容輝：以這個進度的確是這樣。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以從頭到尾你還是在講空話，我問你具體做了什麼……"],["吳次長容輝：也不是空話，因為現在有在推……"],["黃委員國昌：你說在推行政區劃法，那519之前可能提出來嗎？也不可能嘛！從頭到尾就在講空話嘛！我說的不對嗎？如果我說的不對，請您具體指教，您做了什麼是全體國人不知道、我疏忽沒有注意到，就大聲地告訴全體的國民，內政部2021年由上而下政策方向沒有改變！你們針對竹竹要合併的這件事情到底做了什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我剛剛特別講，在法令的完備上，現在正在做，除了這個由上而下，由下而上也可以，也不一定要由上而下啊！"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，所以我一開始就定調，我不喜歡你們在回答問題的時候不針對問題回答，東拉西扯、扯一些沒的，就只是要掩飾一件事，掩飾什麼事？從頭到尾就是為了選舉的炒作嘛，什麼時候關心過新竹市、新竹縣？真的關心嗎？真的關心是這種作為嗎？選舉熱度過了以後，想要幫小智解套，失敗了以後就什麼都沒有做嘛，這才是現實啊！為什麼今天要在地方制度法的時候提出這個質詢啊？任何政黨都有可能執政，在執政的時候，如果是以一黨之私，為特定人量身打造的制度，我個人是期期以為不可，拿國家的制度在開玩笑，等到發現社會反彈太大，解套不成，結果整件事情撒手不管，你們關心誰？只有關心特定的政治人物可不可以選，如果真的關心新竹市跟新竹縣的民眾，你們今天的具體作為就不會是這個樣子，擺爛！擺爛！"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，也不是啦！也不是說擺爛啦！"],["黃委員國昌：不是，那你反駁我，你們具體做了什麼嘛？"],["吳次長容輝：因為我們還是有在做，還在完備法律進行當中嘛……"],["黃委員國昌：你說你2022年做了什麼？2023年做了什麼？針對新竹縣市的合併做了什麼評估？做了什麼規劃？做了什麼推動？我具體地請教你，我質詢的時間當中，除了你說老掉牙的行政區劃法，研議了半天，研議到5月19號下臺都提不出來，除了這個以外，你還有什麼可以說的？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，也不必然一定要跟選舉畫上等號……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有，不是我跟選舉畫上等號，是整個操作、是民主進步黨的操作把它跟選舉畫上等號，怎麼會是我把它跟選舉畫上等號呢？民進黨做的事情就要賴到我頭上來，這樣不對吧！"],["吳次長容輝：不是啦！"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，主席已經站起來了，我們尊重主席，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：非常謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢，也謝謝次長。","繼續我們請可愛的美惠委員質詢，我們在黃建賓委員質詢結束後休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.599718750000001,"end":8.130968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.738468750000003,"end":9.649718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.89409375,"end":12.079718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.429718750000003,"end":13.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.087843750000001,"end":27.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.11096875,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.55784375,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.56159375,"end":36.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.987218750000004,"end":41.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.66159375,"end":44.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.81721875,"end":46.454093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.48784375,"end":48.563468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.782843750000005,"end":50.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.212843750000005,"end":52.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.76534375,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.13221875,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.659093750000004,"end":58.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.67159375000001,"end":59.954093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.970968750000004,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.190343750000004,"end":61.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.33346875,"end":64.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.51034375,"end":71.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.58096875000001,"end":73.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.70721875000001,"end":76.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.06534375000001,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.15346875,"end":82.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.41034375000001,"end":84.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.49034375000001,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.84846875000001,"end":89.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.80596875,"end":90.98721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.67909375,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.21471875,"end":94.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.88534375,"end":96.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.75846875,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.57221875,"end":101.50034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.64784375,"end":103.62659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.36909375,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.23284375,"end":125.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.47096875000001,"end":132.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.61784375000002,"end":140.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.81909375,"end":142.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.04659375,"end":148.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.37471875,"end":150.35346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.64034375,"end":152.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.74971875,"end":157.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.72784375,"end":159.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.75284375,"end":162.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.57096875000002,"end":164.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.47784375,"end":168.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.15221875,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.42596875,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.46284375000002,"end":180.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.72846875000002,"end":182.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.88846875000002,"end":197.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.59909375,"end":204.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.16346875000002,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.29409375,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.05346875,"end":207.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.96471875,"end":215.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.74409375000002,"end":220.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.68846875000003,"end":222.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.61221875,"end":226.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.01659375000003,"end":228.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.29471875000002,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.12784375,"end":247.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.39284375000003,"end":253.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.89846875,"end":260.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.57659375000003,"end":267.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.93846875,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.36409375,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.38096875,"end":276.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.30409375,"end":279.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.41346875,"end":286.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.47596875,"end":286.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.22659375,"end":292.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.98096875000005,"end":294.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.78659375,"end":314.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.20534375,"end":319.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.89659375,"end":324.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.03096875,"end":324.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.62159375000005,"end":324.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.92534375,"end":324.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.95909375,"end":325.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.02659375,"end":337.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.22284375000004,"end":340.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.00721875000005,"end":343.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.21346875,"end":345.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.59721875,"end":353.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.96721875000003,"end":355.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.92471875,"end":359.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.04221875,"end":360.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.47659375,"end":362.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.34971875,"end":364.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.90221875000003,"end":366.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.51784375,"end":370.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.43284375,"end":373.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.81221875,"end":376.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.84971875,"end":377.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.28409375,"end":379.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.03909375,"end":381.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.54096875000005,"end":383.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.44346875,"end":385.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.81034375,"end":388.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.76346875,"end":394.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.75409375000004,"end":395.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.34034375000005,"end":396.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.35284375000003,"end":405.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.12471875,"end":417.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.14346875,"end":414.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.67034375000003,"end":426.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.69846875,"end":429.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.75284375,"end":433.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.92096875000004,"end":439.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.36721875,"end":440.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.34596875000005,"end":444.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.09659375,"end":444.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.85596875000005,"end":446.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.27346875,"end":452.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.83409375,"end":451.11659375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.632,"end":7.618,"text":"那現在主席麻煩有請次長有請吳次長"},{"start":14.465,"end":40.868,"text":"市長今天討論地方制度法雖然是有關乎我們原民的同胞原民的夥伴他們有關於一人席次的問題不過當我們在討論地方制度法的時候跟我們整個國家的發展區域的規劃息息相關的就是各個縣市乃至於都在地方自治的單位上我們要怎麼劃設的事情"},{"start":41.724,"end":56.524,"text":"有一個我覺得是非常嚴肅的問題但這個嚴肅的問題隨著選舉的炒作浮上檯面了以後現在似乎沒有人要提了也就是竹竹新竹市新竹縣"},{"start":57.685,"end":75.864,"text":"合併民進黨政府還要不要再推動?然後我們先回顧一下2021年9月6號的時候前新竹市長林志堅接受媒體專訪大篇幅的倡議新竹市跟新竹縣要合併"},{"start":77.473,"end":101.239,"text":"這個只是林志堅他個人的意見嗎?看起來好像也不是這個時候民主進步黨的府院高層說這個足足合併要由中央由上而下來加以推動來請教一下次長這一個政策的目標跟這一個政策的方向有沒有任何改變報告委員"},{"start":104.451,"end":131.846,"text":"有關於這個合併要升格為直轄市的部分那現在有兩個機制一個是由上而下一個是由下而上嘛這個我知道一樣的事情就不要再講了我已經點出來啊當初府院高層民主進步黨政府啊說這個是要由上而下來加以推動啊所以我才問你政策立場有沒有改變啊目前這一部分沒有沒有我這邊沒有去接受到說這個政策有改變"},{"start":132.797,"end":148.474,"text":"沒有接受到這個政策的改變好那非常好那從2021年到目前為止2024年啊蔡政府已經要下台了那既然政策方向沒有改變那過去這兩年多具體而言請問你們做了什麼"},{"start":149.594,"end":170.943,"text":"還是只是在媒體上面放話配合選舉炒作實際上什麼事情都沒幹如果政策方向沒有改變的話那你們就有必要具體的告訴國人針對足足何必由上而下推動政策方向沒有改變那請問我們的主管機關做了什麼"},{"start":172.452,"end":196.661,"text":"八位不管是由上而下或者由下而上都必須要尊重這個名義這一部分你定的這不是我的問題我問你的是你剛說政策方向沒改變嘛由上而下嘛足足合併嘛我的問題是這是在媒體上放話還是有具體的作為所以我請教你的是過去這兩年多你們具體的作為是什麼"},{"start":199.493,"end":220.129,"text":"現在因為我們現在也正在推這個行政區劃的程序法現在也在推這個你們在推行政區劃程序法目前推動的進度如何現在在行政院那邊審查你們行政院快要下台啦行政院還在審查啊他審查也有提供意見給我們要補負資料上去啦"},{"start":221.028,"end":247.697,"text":"所以我就說嘛你們行政院519就要下台啦結果現在還在打高空說空話說你們在規劃行政區域劃分法這不是很可笑嗎除了你們還在演你的行政區域劃分法以外你剛說政策方向沒有改變由上而下推動沒有改變你還是沒有回答我的問題具體而言過去這兩年多中央政府做了什麼"},{"start":249.828,"end":276.146,"text":"我要的是中央政府做了什麼請告訴大家你們如何推動這個方向沒有改變的政策過去兩年多做了什麼請告訴大家所以這就是為什麼剛剛跟委員報告就現在我們在推這個行政修法這個程序法只要這個完成之後大家就有法院的預計來處理這個問題很顯然嘛在蔡政府519下台以前這是不可能完成的嘛我有沒有說錯"},{"start":277.695,"end":293.441,"text":"以這個進度是的確是這樣對嘛 所以從頭到尾你還是在講空話我問你具體做了什麼你說要推進這個計劃分法那519之前可能提出來嗎?也不可能嘛從頭到尾就在講空話嘛我說的不對嗎?"},{"start":294.861,"end":319.037,"text":"如果我說的不對請您具體指教您做了什麼是全體國人不知道我沒有我疏忽沒有注意到就大聲的告訴全體的國民我們內政部針對2021年由上而下政策方向沒有改變我們足足要合併的這件事情到底做了什麼報告委員我剛剛特別講就是法定的完備上現在正在做"},{"start":319.926,"end":342.991,"text":"那除了這個由上而下的話 由下而上也可以啊 也不一定要由上而下沒有關係 所以我一開始就定調嘛 我就不喜歡你們在回答問題的時候不針對問題回答東拉西扯 扯一些沒的 就只是要掩飾一件事嘛 掩飾什麼事這從頭到尾就是為了選舉的炒作嘛 什麼時候關心過新竹市新竹縣"},{"start":344.284,"end":370.021,"text":"真的關心嗎?真的關心是這種作為嗎?選舉熱度過以後想要幫小智解套失敗了以後就什麼都沒有做嘛這才是現實啊為什麼今天要在地方制度法的時候提出這個質詢啊任何政黨都有可能執政在執政的時候如果是以一黨之師為特定人量身打造的制度"},{"start":371.479,"end":393.786,"text":"我個人是期期以為不可拿國家的制度在開玩笑等到發現社會反彈太大解套不成結果整件事情殺手不管你們關心誰只有關心特定的政治人物可不可以選真的關心新竹市跟新竹縣的縣民你們今天的具體作為就不會是這個樣子擺爛"},{"start":397.683,"end":426.221,"text":"也不是啦!也不是說擺爛啦!因為我們還是有在做嘛!我們在法令給還在完備法令給在進行當中嘛!2023年做了什麼?針對新竹縣市的合併做了什麼評估?做了什麼規劃?做了什麼推動?我具體的請教你啦!我行政執行的時間當中除了你說老掉牙的行政區位劃分法研議了半天研議到519要下台都提不出來除了這個以外你還有什麼可以說的?"},{"start":427.015,"end":450.208,"text":"也不必然一定要跟選舉畫上等號沒有不是我跟選舉畫上等號是整個操作是民主進步黨的操作把他跟選舉畫上等號怎麼會是我把他跟選舉畫上等號呢民進黨做的事情現在賴到我頭上了這樣不對吧不是啦沒有關係主席已經站起來了我尊重主席謝謝非常謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢"}]}},{"id":"151392","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151392","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4459b43915926616cbb8f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c947082a9d1d9fc83395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"09:58:28 - 10:05:42","影片長度":"00:07:14","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":434,"end_time":"2024-04-18T10:05:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:58:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":305,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（9時58分）謝謝主席，我們請次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：次長好，今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了，我還是再次地請教，現在的問題就是，如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市，請問一下，在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投，可不可以告訴大家一下？"],["吳次長容輝：委員講的就是非原民鄉的山地原住民他怎麼投票的問題……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["吳次長容輝：如果是區域的話，他就會投到區域去。"],["黃委員捷：是的，會變成他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表，是這樣子嘛？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["黃委員捷：你覺得這樣會有什麼問題？"],["吳次長容輝：當然這個會變成族別的問題，因為理論上來講，原住民應該會投給原住民的族群，大概比較不會去投給一般區域的議員。"],["黃委員捷：是的，這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權，以及沒有辦法達到實質的族群平等。所以當然在轉型正義的立場上，我也認為今天的修法立意是好的，就是讓原住民即使在沒有原山鄉的縣市，都還是有辦法投給原住民的議員。當然，現在就進一步討論到如果我們開始改制的話，會不會影響到既有的席次，就次長的看法，目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，這要看是內含或是外加。"],["黃委員捷：就今天的版本。"],["吳次長容輝：今天的版本如果採外加的話，以我們的試算，大概影響區域不大。"],["黃委員捷：這就是我想請教的，因為今天內政部是沒有自己的版本的，只有幾個委員的版本，在這樣的版本的立場之上，顯然不會影響既有的席次，如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後，會影響怎麼樣的席次，你們有試算過嗎？可不可以跟大家說明一下？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我們有試算過。"],["黃委員捷：好，跟大家說明一下，接下來如果這個版本送出，增減的席次影響是怎麼樣？"],["吳次長容輝：因為鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點……"],["主席：我們是一樣，但是鄭天財委員是多了代表……"],["吳次長容輝：對，我們現在講議員的部分，假設以鄭天財委員的版本，區域的會增加，然後原民也會增加。"],["黃委員捷：都會增加，因為都是採總額外加制嘛！那你們支持嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：我覺得這個都可以討論。"],["黃委員捷：都可以討論，當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦！因為看起來內政部自己也沒有評估過所謂可能造成的疑慮，或者是如果照這樣立下去，增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響，目前看不出來。所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的，如果就照今天的版本，我們修我們的，但是你們部都沒有任何的立場，這也是不行的。","當然我自己是支持，因為這個是回到族群的平等，立意非常良善，但是我也想到一個問題，就是因為我們地制法第三十三條裡面還是有提到，區域縣市的議員是有總額的問題，目前看起來等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來，是用總額外加的方式，就不受這一條的限制，會變成是這樣嗎？如果是這樣的話，因為以目前的區域議員來說，像屏東他們現在55席，如果照人口的試算增減的話，下一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔；臺東現在是30席，他們照現在人口的增減，到了下一次的選舉，可能會剩下19席。也就是說目前區域的民意代表，其實都會隨著人口的增減，不管立委、不管議員，席次都是會有增減的，但是照目前的版本，等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了，是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢？"],["吳次長容輝：是，因為原住民部分是保障的，他不會動；但區域議員的部分因為人口的減少，會一直減少，就像剛剛委員特別有提到說，屏東在下一次的選舉會從55席掉到43席，少了12席。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯，一次就是少12席喔！"],["吳次長容輝：下下一次臺東會少了11席。如果以現在的修法版本，如果要修，大家有這共識要修，那就應該採外加的方式，而不是以內含的方式，不能因為修法去保障這個，而影響到區域，我想這個一定會有問題。"],["黃委員捷：當然。"],["吳次長容輝：不過我要特別跟委員報告，現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民沒有參政權，是有，只是他現在沒有的話，他必須要去參加區域議員……"],["黃委員捷：是啊、是啊！"],["吳次長容輝：對，那是一個保障的問題。"],["黃委員捷：他沒有辦法用原住民的身分去選、去投啊！所以不用解釋這個啦！我意思是說是不是大家可以再一併的討論？因為地制法的精神也就是隨著人口的增減，然後會影響民意代表的席次嘛！"],["吳次長容輝：是，這個我們尊重委員的意見。"],["黃委員捷：對，所以我希望如果可以的話，大家就一併討論。","再來就還是講一下一人投票所的問題，因為其實這個狀況真的滿嚴重的，目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候，會暴露自己的投票意向，因為等於是他都會被迫亮票，那這件事情到底怎麼解決？部裡可不可以給一個研擬的方案，你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善被迫亮票的行為？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我想為了保障秘密投票，現在選務機關大概是採取集中投票所去投票，就會事先去徵詢他，把他的……"],["黃委員捷：那如果很遠呢？"],["吳次長容輝：這一部分我們是儘可能都去處理……"],["黃委員捷：所以我還是希望，因為也有人在討論如果真的要談不在籍投票，其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論，我覺得這個方向也是好的，反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票，我們就回歸到不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面，他進去投了誰，當地所有的社區都知道。"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，以後移轉投票成熟之後，我認為這個問題會解決，這個我們現在都有在討論，選委會也有在討論。"],["黃委員捷：好，請你們繼續研擬。謝謝次長。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員的質詢。","次長，你們研擬什麼時候會有一個結論？"],["吳次長容輝：你說移轉投票……"],["主席：對。"],["吳次長容輝：這個選委會……"],["主席：今天選委會也有來嘛！對不對？等一下休息的時候，我會再詢問你們這件事情，好不好？謝謝。","繼續請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.32971875,"end":8.012843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.008468750000002,"end":9.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.058468750000003,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.969718750000002,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.78534375,"end":33.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.236593750000004,"end":41.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.85159375,"end":41.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.99909375,"end":47.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.158468750000004,"end":54.351593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.30096875,"end":54.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.385343750000004,"end":55.971593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.45659375,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.43409375,"end":71.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.51346875,"end":106.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.23784375000001,"end":111.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.35534375,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.80659375,"end":112.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.87409375,"end":116.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.43034375,"end":121.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.78409375000001,"end":122.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.67846875000001,"end":144.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.83534375000002,"end":147.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.86034375,"end":147.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.16409375,"end":152.93534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.82971875,"end":161.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.52409375000002,"end":178.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.19284375,"end":183.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.78346875,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.85909375,"end":182.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.94721875000002,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.71909375,"end":279.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.66659375,"end":279.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.24034375,"end":285.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.75846875,"end":286.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.77096875,"end":299.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.04471875,"end":290.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.16159375,"end":301.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.01784375,"end":302.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.54909375,"end":306.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.75159375000004,"end":303.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.76784375,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.21471875000003,"end":321.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.75721875,"end":322.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.93846875,"end":324.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.38534375,"end":336.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.95784375,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.03346875,"end":338.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.54784375,"end":338.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.50971875000005,"end":338.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.91471875,"end":349.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.66409375,"end":352.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.16159375,"end":376.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.60034375000004,"end":353.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.64659375,"end":354.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.28784375000004,"end":354.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.11971875,"end":386.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.65409375,"end":389.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.23596875000004,"end":390.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.29471875,"end":397.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.91846875000005,"end":418.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.57721875000004,"end":429.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.95971875000004,"end":431.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.42784375,"end":431.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.06471875000005,"end":434.47784375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.336,"end":30.746,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請次長我也是好好 次長好 今天這個問題其實大家都有提到了所以我還是再次的請教因為現在的問題就是說如果是一個沒有山地鄉的縣市那請問一下我們在這些縣市裡面的山地原住民他們要投議員的票要怎麼投可不可以告訴大家一下"},{"start":34.698,"end":54.884,"text":"委員講的就是說非這個原民鄉的3D原住民他怎麼投票的問題那他會去投這個區域的話他就會投到區域去是的他會變成說他沒有辦法投給自己原住民的民意代表是這樣子嗎那你覺得這樣會有什麼問題"},{"start":57.606,"end":70.602,"text":"當然這個是變成這個豬背的問題啦因為理論上來講我原住民我應該會投給原住民的的這個租賃嘛那我大概比較不會去投給這個這個一般區域的議員"},{"start":71.59,"end":93.464,"text":"是的 這個其實就是大家過去所詬病的剝奪原住民的參政權以及他沒有辦法達到實質的族群的平等所以當然在轉型正義的立場上我也認為今天的修法利益是好的就是讓原住民族他有辦法即使他在沒有圓山鄉的這個縣市都還是有辦法投給原住民的意願"},{"start":94.784,"end":118.682,"text":"當然現在就進一步討論到,如果我們開始改制的話,會不會影響到既有的席次?就我們次長的看法,目前的修法會不會影響既有的席次?報委,這要看你是內涵或是外加。那就今天的版本?如果今天版本如果採外加的話,以我們跟他試算,大概不會影響區域的不大。"},{"start":123.175,"end":144.324,"text":"這就是我想請教的因為其實我們今天我們內政部是沒有自己的版本的然後今天其實就是只有幾個委員的版本那在這樣的版本的立場之上顯然不會影響既有的席次那如果接下來照今天的版本修出去之後會影響怎麼樣的席次你們有試算過嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下"},{"start":145.184,"end":160.612,"text":"法務委員,我們有試算過。好,跟大家說明一下,接下來如果這個版本送出,增減的席次影響是怎麼樣?如果假設,因為版本鄭天財委員跟高金委員的版本有一點"},{"start":165.558,"end":166.379,"text":"那你們支持嗎?"},{"start":185.117,"end":213.362,"text":"我覺得這個都可以討論都可以討論那當然其實我覺得你們應該要進行相關的評估啦因為看起來說我們內政部自己也沒有評估過這個所謂可能造成的疑慮或者是如果照這樣的利益下去增減的席次會不會有什麼實質上的影響目前看不出來所以我覺得這個是內政部應該要回去檢討的如果你們就照今天的版本我們修我們的但是你們部都沒有任何的立場這也是不行的"},{"start":214.022,"end":225.53,"text":"那當然我自己是支持因為這是回到一個族群的平等利益非常良善但是我也想到一個問題就是因為我們地質法裡面還是有提到說就33條裡面我們目前就是區域的縣市的議員是有總額的問題"},{"start":230.993,"end":259.849,"text":"那目前看起來就是等於是說如果原住民的議員也加進來是用總額外交的方式就不受這一條的限制會變成是這樣嗎?如果是這樣的話是不是因為以目前的區議員來說像屏東他們現在55席如果照人口的試算增減的話再一次選舉可能只剩下43席喔那如果台東現在是30席他們照現在人口的增減到了下一次的選舉可能會剩下19席"},{"start":260.689,"end":278.861,"text":"也就是說目前的區域的民意代表其實都會隨著人口的增減不管立委不管議員都是會席次會有增減的但是照目前的版本等於原住民的議員他們未來如果人口增減了是不是會反而沒有辦法因此而調整呢我想這一個因為原住民部分是保障的"},{"start":285.779,"end":308.125,"text":"他不會動但區域的議員部會因為人口的減少會一直減少就像剛剛委員特別有提到說屏東在下一次的這個選舉會少了從55席會掉到43席會少了12席一次就是少12席唷下一次台東會少了11席是的那現在如果假設以這個現在的修法版本那如果要修"},{"start":309.264,"end":338.625,"text":"如果要修大家有這個共識要修那就應該採外加的方式而不是以內涵的方式因為不能因為修法去保障這個影響到區我想這個一定會會有問題當然當然對不過我要特別跟委員報告就是說以現在不是說這些非山地鄉的原住民是沒有參政權是有只是說他他現在沒有的話他必須要去參加區議員是啊是啊對那後面有辦法用原住民的身份去選啊是去投啊是"},{"start":339.045,"end":349.014,"text":"是啊所以不用解釋這個啦我意思是說是不是大家可以在一併的討論就是因為地質法的精神也就是說隨著人口的增減然後會影響你們民意代表的席次嗎"},{"start":350.073,"end":375.834,"text":"是 這個我尊重 我們尊重委員的意見對 所以我希望如果可以的話大家就一併討論再來之後就還是講一下這個一人投票所的問題因為其實目前這個狀況真的蠻嚴重的目前大概有兩成的原住民族在投票的時候會暴露自己的投票的意向因為這個等於是他都會被迫亮票那這件事情到底怎麼解決布里可不可以給一個嚴厲的方案你們有沒有任何具體的措施可以改善這個被迫亮票的行為"},{"start":377.145,"end":390.228,"text":"我想這一個我要保障這個秘密投票那現在選務機關大概採取是這個集中投開票所去投票了就會事先去徵詢他把那個投開票那如果很遠呢?"},{"start":391.348,"end":418.667,"text":"那這一部分我們是盡可能都去處理所以我還是希望因為其實也有人在討論說如果真的要談不在己投票啦其實就應該原住民族可以開始先討論那我覺得這個方向其實也是好的就是反而不是去談什麼通訊投票、境外投票我們就回歸到說不要讓原住民族被迫在一人投票所裡面進去他投了誰當地的所有的社區都知道"},{"start":419.605,"end":426.552,"text":"我想報告委員這以後到這個移轉投票成熟之後我認為這個問題會去解決那這個我們現在都有在討論先會會有在討論好請你們繼續研擬好謝謝市長謝謝好謝謝黃捷委員"}]}},{"id":"151391","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151391","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445b2c079d9f387eea18f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c94f1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:50:53 - 09:57:58","影片長度":"00:07:05","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[15,36],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1"},"date":"2024-04-18","duration":425,"end_time":"2024-04-18T09:57:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-18T09:50:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":263,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時51分）謝謝主席，我想請內政部次長。"],["主席：有請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：次長好。次長，我們今天在討論原住民族民意代表的選舉，其實剛剛不管是伍麗華委員或者是高金委員都一再提到了山地原在都市區、都會區參政權的保障，您剛剛也說確實這個地方過往的立法狀況一直不清楚，確實現在存有改進的空間，是不是這個意思？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你覺得可以怎麼調整？"],["吳次長容輝：我想有幾個方案，因為這個涉及到底是要總額內或者是外加的部分，是可以去討論的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：總之，你也認為不管是內含或者是外加，把都會區再加上有山地原住民民意代表的席次，是可以討論的方向，是這樣嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：可以討論，這個有討論的空間。"],["蘇委員巧慧：肯定的方向嘛？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們今天再深一層追問好了，次長，我想請問一下，你知道今天就是山地原住民和平地原住民這兩大類在分別，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是我們臺灣這麼多族的原住民族裡面，在族別之外還會被加上這樣的身分分類法，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你知道山原跟平原的身分別是怎麼分的嗎？法律依據是什麼？哪一條？"],["吳次長容輝：當初原民身分法裡面就有光復前跟光復後，你的戶籍在平地就是平地原住民，在山地就是山地原住民，當初……"],["蘇委員巧慧：你要不要再講一次？在2024年的現在再講一次這條規定？如何區分原住民是山地原住民和平地原住民的分類標準，你不覺得在2024年的現在聽起來滿可笑的嗎？我念給你聽好了，原住民族身分法第二條：「本法所稱原住民，包括山地原住民及平地原住民，其身分之認定，除本法另有規定外，依下列規定：一、山地原住民：臺灣光復前原籍在山地行政區域內，且戶口調查簿登記其本人或直系血親尊親屬屬於原住民者。二、平地原住民：臺灣光復前原籍在平地行政區域內，且戶口調查簿登記其本人或直系血親尊親屬屬於原住民，並申請戶籍所在地鄉（鎮、市、區）公所登記為平地原住民有案者」。","我是哪一族，這是血統上面的，但是我是山原還是平原，原來是依據光復前，是漢人來光復臺灣之前，戶籍登記在漢人設定的行政區域內，我們就把他分成山原跟平原，然後從此之後，他們的投票權和他們的參政權就有了很大的區分。所以像伍麗華委員好了，他的爸爸媽媽不同族，父母之中有一個不能投他，你覺得這樣合理嗎？原住民不就是原住民嗎？我們今天在討論席次的問題，我們有沒有在2024年的現在，更深一層地去討論、去辯證，現在到底還有沒有區分山原跟平原的必要性呢？你覺得這個也可以討論嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：我想這部分是不是由原民會來回答會比較……"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒有，我現在就是問內政部。我現在就問內政部，好啦，那原民會副主委你也備詢好了。"],["主席：請鍾副主委。"],["蘇委員巧慧：但是我還是要原住民的答案，我還是要內政部的答案。"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我的答案很簡單，就是這些都是屬於公共議題，都可以討論，以後假設法令修改了，山原跟平原要合在一起統稱為原住民，當然這個涉及的法令修改……"],["蘇委員巧慧：會非常多，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：會非常多。"],["蘇委員巧慧：但是事實上這可以討論。請原民會回答。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：跟委員報告，其實這個部分是可以討論的，因為山原、平原就誠如委員所提到的，都是沿襲日據時代的分類……"],["蘇委員巧慧：是呀！"],["鍾副主任委員興華：但是目前因為現代的社會大家都很頻繁遷徙，所以那個分法只是在……"],["蘇委員巧慧：對，而且山原現在也不住在山上了，剛剛高金委員就有提到了，我們有這麼多、幾乎一半的族人朋友根本就已經移居到都市了，請問我在這裡把他分山原跟平原這個差別的意義到底是什麼？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：權利都差不多，只有在參政權上才有山原、平原的分別。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是，然後我再跟你說，現在我們不要講參政的部分，就講投票好了，其實這樣區分還會造成什麼？你們有沒有調查過，我相信很多人都討論過這個議題，秘密投票、投票秘密的問題。我來看全臺灣的投開票所，我們有做了一個統計，我們去投票所投票的時候，大家都很自然，就是去投票，投了以後就開票，誰也不知道我投什麼，在選票上蓋了圈圈再投入票匭，天地良心，誰知道我是投誰？可是原住民不一樣，因為他們人少。我幫大家調查一下，我講新北市就好了，投票所只有5個人以下的，平地原住民是占23.4%，山地原住民的投票所只有5個人以下的占了47.5%。伍麗華委員更統計過，上一次的選舉，全國山原投票所只有1個人的有1,400個投票所，平原只有1個人去投票的，也是1,400個投票所，這還有秘密投票可言嗎？對不對？這不是一件很奇怪的事情嗎？所以這有沒有解方？要不要來改變？把身分別的認同拉寬，是不是也是一種解方？這真的非常值得討論。","所以我們今天在討論投票部分的時候，其實我覺得更應該利用這個機會可以往上層次來討論，副主委應該認同啦？等一下要修法的時候，就跟你請教這一條。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：跟委員報告，針對山原、平原的分法，我們在104年也有提出過……"],["蘇委員巧慧：因為我看也有委員提出版本。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是，我們也徵詢過當時的一些民意代表，不過多數還是有一些反對，所以這個還比較複雜一點。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以我說討論嘛，好，請副主委先回座，我繼續請教次長。次長，我跳另外一題。行政院說現在打詐要由內政部來處理專法，請問打詐專法的進度到哪裡了？"],["吳次長容輝：報告立委，前幾天都密集在開會，現在大概已經收斂得差不多了，下個禮拜應該會提出來。"],["蘇委員巧慧：非常好，因為時間的關係，我就跟次長說，本席也會提出一部我的版本，我有三個建議：像授權先行限制瀏覽或移除的法源；第二個是協助民眾追回受騙款項，這才是大家比較想要知道的；第三個，請支持民間發展創新科技。針對這3項重點，我希望能夠再跟內政部多討論，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員。次長，剛剛提到的秘密投票的確是一個很大的問題，希望你們趕快想一個方式，讓這些投票的原住民族人不要因為他的投票行為而受到大家矚目，好不好？謝謝。","繼續我們請黃捷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員賴士葆等\n20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制\n度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案","agenda_id":"1133101_00017"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.83221875,"end":6.308468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.730343750000001,"end":7.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.472843750000001,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.336593750000002,"end":43.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.10909375,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.97346875,"end":51.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.398468750000006,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.27846875,"end":66.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.93034375,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.67596875000001,"end":84.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.48534375,"end":90.58221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.02096875000001,"end":91.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.25721875,"end":91.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.86471875000001,"end":101.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.78721875000001,"end":116.48534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.83534375,"end":118.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.12221875,"end":119.23596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.11784375,"end":119.42159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.42159375000001,"end":180.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.47096875,"end":182.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.18784375,"end":184.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.08221875,"end":186.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.36034375,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.28221875000003,"end":204.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.13409375,"end":206.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.24346875,"end":208.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.06159375000001,"end":210.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.88409375,"end":212.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.98534375000003,"end":211.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.87971875000002,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.97659375,"end":214.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.67659375000002,"end":225.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.61596875,"end":227.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.82659375,"end":231.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.46346875,"end":230.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.13409375,"end":231.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.35346875000002,"end":231.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.37034375000002,"end":231.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.45471875,"end":231.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.74159375000002,"end":233.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.40784375,"end":247.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.78971875000002,"end":260.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.22846875000002,"end":248.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.48409375,"end":262.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.47096875,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.90971875,"end":262.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.08971875000003,"end":327.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.23284375000003,"end":328.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.90784375000004,"end":329.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.80221875,"end":330.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.84846875,"end":332.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.75534375,"end":335.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.79284375000003,"end":350.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.53721875,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.23284375000003,"end":356.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.64596875,"end":364.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.60721875,"end":365.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.57721875000004,"end":371.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.70284375,"end":380.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.93346875000003,"end":385.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.45159375000003,"end":394.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.75534375,"end":387.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.75409375000004,"end":421.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.78784375000004,"end":421.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.92284375,"end":422.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.00721875000005,"end":422.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.96909375,"end":423.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.08721875000003,"end":423.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.52596875,"end":424.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.127,"end":3.567,"text":"請內政部吳次長"},{"start":16.158,"end":42.454,"text":"市長好,市長我們今天在討論這個原住民族的民意代表的選舉喔那其實剛剛不管是武麗華委員或者是高金委員其實都在在提到了山地原住民在都市區、都會區參政權的保障那您剛剛也說確實這個地方過往的立法狀況一直不清楚了但確實現在存有改進的空間,是不是這個意思?是那你認為你覺得可以怎麼調整?"},{"start":44.685,"end":63.157,"text":"我想這個有幾個方案因為這個涉及到到底在總額內或者是外加的部分這個是可以去討論的但總之你也認為把都會區再加上不管他是內涵或者是外加再加上有山地原住民名義代表的席次這個是可以討論的方向是這樣可以討論對肯定的方向嘛"},{"start":66.619,"end":88.8,"text":"那我們就是想今天再來問啊,我們再深一層桌問好了。市長我想請問一下,你知道山地原住民和平地原住民嗎?我們今天就是這兩大類在分別嘛對不對?這是我們台灣16這麼多族的原住民族裡面,它在族別之外還會被加上這樣的身份分類法對不對?那你知道這個原住民山原跟平原身份別是怎麼分的嗎?法律依據是什麼?哪一條?"},{"start":92.243,"end":112.343,"text":"這個在當初這個人民身份法裡面他就有在在當初就有光復前跟光復後是你是戶籍在平地就平地原住民你在山地就山地原住民當初是你要不要再講一次在這個2024年的現在再講一次這條規定如何區分原住民是山地原住民和平地原住民的分類標準你不會覺得在2024年的現在聽起來蠻可笑的嗎"},{"start":119.84,"end":138.576,"text":"原住民族身份法第二條本法所稱原住民包括山地原住民及平地原住民其身份之認定除本法另有規定外依依下的規定依依山地原住民臺灣光復前原籍在山地行政區內且戶口調查部登記其本人或直系血親尊姓所屬於原住民"},{"start":139.136,"end":140.959,"text":"平地原住民有案是臺灣光復前,原籍在平地行政區域內,且戶口調查部登記為其本人或職業為原住民,申請戶籍在公所登記為平地原住民有案者。我是哪一族?這是血統上面的。"},{"start":157,"end":179.755,"text":"但是我是山人還是平原?原來是依據光復前,是漢人來這個光復台灣之前,然後戶籍登記在漢人設定的這個行政區域內,然後我們就把它分成山人跟平原,然後從此之後他們的投票權和他們的參政權就有了很大的區分,所以像吳立華吳偉元好了,他的爸爸媽媽不同族,欸他有一個不能投他欸,你覺得這樣合理嗎?原住民不是就是原住民嗎?"},{"start":187.423,"end":214.663,"text":"那我們今天在討論的席次的話我們有沒有要更在2024年的現在更深一層的去討論去辯證現在到底還有沒有區分山園跟庭園的必要性呢?你覺得這個也可以討論嗎?我想這一部分是不是原民會來回答會比較沒有我現在就是問內政部阿我現在就問內政部好了那原民會副主委你也對詢好了但是我還是要原住民的答案阿我還是要內政部的答案阿對啊"},{"start":216.011,"end":233.47,"text":"法務委員我的答案很簡單就是這些都是屬於公共議題都可以討論以後你如果說假設這個法令的修改三元跟平衡要去合在一起就統成一個原住民那當然這個涉及的法令的修改會非常多啦對不對對但是事實上這可以討論嘛來委員會跟委員報告"},{"start":236.053,"end":262.537,"text":"其實這個部分是可以討論的,因為三元平原就曾如委員所提到的都是延續日據時代的一個分類。目前因為整個都已經比較現代的社會大家都很頻繁。對,而且我三元現在也不住在山上了,剛剛高金委員就有提到的嘛,我們有這麼多基建一半的人族人朋友根本就已經是移居到都市了。請問我在這裡把它分三元跟平原這個差別的意義到底是什麼?權力都差不多只有在參政權才有三元平原。"},{"start":262.657,"end":264.758,"text":"二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案：一、審查委員鄭天財"},{"start":281.845,"end":298.396,"text":"這個統計在我每一個投票所我們大家都去投票的時候我們都很自然嘛就是去投票投了以後就被開票誰也不知道我投什麼啊在那個票櫃在投票圈圈裡面天地良心誰知道我是投誰可是原住民不一樣啊因為他人少啊我幫大家調查一下我講新北市就好了"},{"start":299.156,"end":311.503,"text":"那個投票所只有5個人以下的平地原住民是佔23.4%。三地原住民那個投票所只有5個人,只有5票的,有佔了47.5。五一環委員更統計過阿,上次的選舉全國3人投票所只有1個人的1400個投票所。"},{"start":322.068,"end":347.008,"text":"平原只有一個人去投票的也是一千四百個投票所這還有命令投票可言嗎?對不對?這不是一件很奇怪的事情嗎?所以這有沒有解方?要不要來改變?把身份別的認同拉寬是不是也是一種解方?這真的非常值得討論所以我們今天在討論這個投票的部分的時候其實我覺得更應該利用這個機會可以往上層次來討論副主委應該認同啦"},{"start":351.604,"end":368.072,"text":"審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案案﹚一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案﹚一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案﹚一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案﹚一、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條之一條文修正草案﹚一、審查"},{"start":381.039,"end":401.708,"text":"行政院有說現在打造要由內政部來處理專法,請問進度到哪裡了?打造專法?報告立委,這個前幾天都密集下開會,現在大概已經收斂差不多了,下個禮拜應該會提出來。好,非常好,那我因為時間的關係,我就跟市長這邊說,我這邊本席也會提出一部我的版本啦。"},{"start":402.048,"end":422.596,"text":"那我有三個建議啦齁,這個地方的話是要授權先行限制瀏覽或移除的法源。第二個是協助民眾追回款項。第二個是協助追回受騙款項。這才是大家比較想要知道的。第三個請支持民間發展創新科技。這三項重點我希望能夠再跟內政部多討論。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。好,謝謝蘇喬惠委員。"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}