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非常謝謝先介紹一下我們列席的貴賓我們今天陸委會歡迎李副主委歡迎我們交通部歡迎陳次長歡迎還有各位列席的官員大家早安 大家好"},{"start":4418.339,"end":4438.118,"text":"各位黨團幹部我們現在繼續把握有限的時間我們繼續協商進行國民黨團建議院會作成決議立即解除禁止人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客循小三通赴金馬澎等三個離島"},{"start":4441.542,"end":4458.63,"text":"現的旅遊觀光本案於五月十一日十三日經第一會期第十三次會議決定近乎二讀並由國民黨團負責召集協商本席應國民黨團請求進行本案首次協商針對我們本法案的內容先請國民黨團請說明"},{"start":4462.546,"end":4487.532,"text":"主席我想先進行一個會議詢問請問為什麼這個院長親自主持的協商這兩個相關部會陸委會及交通部都是由副首長參加請問這個我們陸委會主委跟我們交通部部長有什麼更重大的事情這個院長我們立法院院長親自主持的可以先說明一下嗎陸委會主委陸委會副主委請說一下你們主委"},{"start":4488.277,"end":4500.599,"text":"抱歉抱歉因為今天主委十點鐘有一個外賓所以外賓比立法院還重要嗎?因為那個是早就約大陸來的是嗎?入委會嘛外賓就是入委外賓哪裡來的外賓?"},{"start":4501.994,"end":4527.476,"text":"哪裏的外賓?金門縣喔?金門縣縣長喔?其他國家跟陸委會當然可以拜會,有比立法院重要嗎?不好意思,因為我們今天是九點四十開始那他是十點鐘,那個他早就約好的院長這個,他們有決策權嗎?副主委還有交通部"},{"start":4529.277,"end":4548.35,"text":"請交通部主席回答我跟委員報告一下我們部長今天呢上午是陪同總統然後視察這個氣象署視察對對對因為氣象署是我們交通部一個很重要的一個業務所以今天總統這個我稍微可以接受一點陪同總統而且時間剛好是十點十點 OK"},{"start":4551.592,"end":4570.586,"text":"陳宇峥委員的質詢,柯建民總統有話要講,請我們今天是草野協商,隨便問,就是三大政黨的立場表示展示當然他們屬於變動說明的角色,不過進一本題,我想這個原則大家都很清楚,我們會表現我們的立場"},{"start":4572.052,"end":4585.951,"text":"並不是說他們立場怎麼樣會改變我們就是大家共同決議 不行就改變會改變我的想法 不會改變你會改變我我不敢做出這樣的期待啦 大家說今天就開始不是啊 這是沒準中啊 欸 院長主持捏"},{"start":4586.852,"end":4591.994,"text":"主責機關的部長一定到嘛你說其他機關可能是次長來但是主責機關的部長一定到啊這最基本原則啊立法院的尊嚴可以這樣子嗎"},{"start":4614.484,"end":4615.906,"text":"今天不只是對立法院面子民進黨民眾黨國民黨團的面子"},{"start":4630.421,"end":4638.725,"text":"而且這本來就是我們討論事情本來就應該啊難道民進黨團可以接受這樣子嗎民進黨團已經討論在你可以接受這樣子嗎總召大小生什麼東西啊我沒有大小生我是譴責一下我邀請我們執政黨團總召譴責一下這樣的行為吧譴責一下這種不尊重立法院的行為"},{"start":4658.134,"end":4672.287,"text":"林國成委員舉手請表達意見我們還是要建議院長主持的會議其實首長理應一定要到 不到一定要召會院長"},{"start":4673.968,"end":4701.437,"text":"立法院經驗的問題但是因為既然今天啊有些陪了總統有些那個那確實是有要務但是還是要召會所以我要請教我們院長有沒有召會你如果沒有的話我還是建議啦齁我還是建議以後真的院長主持會議首長一定要到這是一個禮數對立法院一個尊重好不好謝謝我們傅坤祺總召舉手請發言"},{"start":4709.179,"end":4731.874,"text":"謝謝院長這幾天的辛勞我想這個會期大家不管風風火火走到會期的最後一天大家也在摸索互相認識但是最重要就是國會殿堂要有最基本的一個尊嚴所以對於這麼重要的一個草以協商而且各政黨代表都在這裡"},{"start":4733.55,"end":4753.933,"text":"我想匯齊到7月16日是我們兩三個月就已經訂好的事情行政院的各部會包括院長在內包括總統在內都知道說這幾天是密集的草以協商對不管是國家重大法案還是民生建設都是在這幾天要做成決定"},{"start":4755.694,"end":4775.887,"text":"希望是非常和諧的、理性的討論,行政單位也能提出確實的意見,讓大家起來探討,作成最後的決議。所以,比較好奇的就是,明知道今天是7月16日會期最後一天,而且有重要的協商,我相信賴希德總統一定會有這個雅量,"},{"start":4777.047,"end":4802.97,"text":"去看什麼重大的建設由院長副院長陪同行政院院長副院長陪同或是部會的次長陪同他大可不必啊這個部長必須要在這裡啊必須要來這裡啊來做一個說明的時候啊反而選擇退出而且剛剛我最不能接受的是大家一起在請教"},{"start":4805.285,"end":4828.841,"text":"這個院長還院長就是這些部會首長請假的時候我們的會議主席院長知不知道看起來剛剛院長的表情是並不知道這個事情所以我覺得柯總召這個事情大家就要討論一下因為不管是議長剛才講得很清楚不然應該要跟院長請個假這是基本禮貌嘛所以柯總召"},{"start":4832.643,"end":4854.354,"text":"所以現在我要特別強調執政是大家輪來輪去但是在國會不管哪一個黨大家要互相收驚民主公家的因為國會並沒有這麼小所以國會小的話柯總召也變得很小我們都很小 對不對所以這個事情因為我們代表百分之百的民意各政黨"},{"start":4855.234,"end":4868.079,"text":"所以今天如果說我們本院、立法院、韓院長都不知道說為什麼這幾位部會所長沒有來也沒有跟院長請假這是不應該的這是不應該的因為大家一直維持我們和諧的氣氛"},{"start":4872.961,"end":4874.842,"text":"柯總召對於兩位部長沒有來你意思表達讓我們聽一下好不好"},{"start":4888.666,"end":4908.759,"text":"我剛才也講很清楚立法院在草案期間第一個各位首長都要來因為對他的重要法案的預算很重要所以每個會期到最後由於這個時候是這種時刻各位首長一定知道那這個可能有糾葛他要來如何解釋當然捷運潛在我們所以我們捷運潛在我們"},{"start":4912.461,"end":4928.445,"text":"所以母來一定要給院長請個假這是一定的啊你不要譴責他噢沒有意見這個慣例早就堅持在先了嘛啊今天我不知道他們為什麼沒有放這種錯誤也是死死不應啦我也不知道啦"},{"start":4930.589,"end":4959.41,"text":"沒有啦 我不知道他有沒有 院長請假謝謝 謝謝謝謝 麻煩兩位次長回去以後轉達那我們也會責成我們秘書長這邊所有以後才有的協商議事處這邊會通知我們正式的部長要到臨現場表達對立法院的尊重以及對自己部門部的尊重好 現在我們繼續回到主題請國民黨團請說明這次我們提案開放整個觀光的限制請說明"},{"start":4962.095,"end":4988.412,"text":"這個大家都知道這個之前交通部宣布這個禁團令就今年二月以前嘛本來是選舉那個時候大家都期待說尤其國內的這個觀光業者都抱著滿心期待希望是說在這個新的總統上任以後那這個當初也曾經一度說要開放開放就是說就是讓這個兩個部分觀光旅遊分成兩個部分"},{"start":4990.794,"end":5013.333,"text":"跟大陸相關的部分 一個是往大陸去 一個是迎接客人來有關出國的部分 本來觀光業者 而且本來你們的部裡面的意見也是說要開放的沒有想到莫名其妙突然宣布到六月份 就是說六月份以前的都是可以的你招攬過什麼都是可以 但六月份以後不行"},{"start":5014.794,"end":5030.582,"text":"你們這樣子不行雖然現在我們來講一個觀光業的實況實際上大家都是比如說可能就是到大陸去然後賞客去那邊可能集結成團但是這個算是造成觀光業者的這樣的操作是造成國人赴外旅遊的一種這種"},{"start":5033.143,"end":5059.838,"text":"不安全或以法律上來講保障變少事實上不管是國人出外去觀光或者我們歡迎客人不管從世界各地哪裡來觀光都是對觀光部尤其是觀光署來講對交通部觀光署來講都是很正面性我們現在的觀光人口一直沒有辦法上升我前幾個禮拜去國內一個知名的景區有一個觀光飯店的業者跟我算是"},{"start":5060.658,"end":5081.517,"text":"幾乎快要枯樹他說他經營觀光飯店他經營飯店五十五年來從疫情到現在這一段時間是最慘的時候是最艱難的時候這是這個國內在宜蘭那個地方他說從來沒有見過這麼慘的時候因為客人不足尤其現在國旅最近開放大部分大家都出國去但是"},{"start":5082.398,"end":5086.379,"text":"沒有客人進來 如果入客當然幫助很大所以說這個希望趕快來開放第二個我講我們金馬澎尤其我們金門基我們金門基真的是觀光產業現在真的是非常非常的慘不要說小三通前幾年因為疫情期間沒有開放那個時候我們每一年損失二三十億台幣就相當一億美金的觀光產值"},{"start":5107.085,"end":5111.248,"text":"議會我們還期待觀光可以開始欣欣向榮臺灣的旅客過來、大陸旅客可以過來恢復以前、以往這個日子的時候沒有想到現在還沒有辦法迎來這樣的日子各個產業連動勢的整個金門地區都落入這個所有的產業都落入那個愁雲慘霧的情況所以為了民生經濟考量我想請求這個我想請這個當然民黨的委員在這裡我們這邊也有委員也了解金門的情形"},{"start":5138.585,"end":5166.251,"text":"針對第一個就是解除禁止人民赴大陸觀光之限制就是所謂大家俗稱那個禁團令我想國內觀光業者也是呼籲再三這個部分我想說這個請大家一起來做成決議讓交通那個相關部門來這個來這個遵守第二個開放大陸觀光客循小三通赴金馬澎三個離島觀光我想這個部分上個禮拜上個月上個禮拜吧那個馬祖已經有踩限團了嘛"},{"start":5167.031,"end":5186.393,"text":"那所以基本經濟是還沒有那當然大陸這邊也有一些考量但這個我也會去push那重點是說我們這邊是不是在兩岸關係如此緊繃的時候我們雖然已經表示開放了所以我想這個應該是已經表示是贊成的意思立委會應該也是表示贊成的意思"},{"start":5186.653,"end":5213.614,"text":"但是我覺得還是應該做一個比較嚴正的聲明公開的說明我想最近慢慢從旅展方面這個旅展有讓大陸的相關的文旅廳的相關人過來然後還有這個7月20號即將進行的這個金夏永渡也有讓一些福建省體育局的人過來我想這是初步的慢慢釋出善意那如果我們更大幅度的就不是大幅度就是把你的政策立場我今天為什麼主委沒有來就是因為主委他事實上比較"},{"start":5214.295,"end":5233.111,"text":"比較了解整個政策副主委也是很熟悉啦我也不能說他不熟悉但是主委畢竟是做決策的人那可以今天可以在這裡更清楚的說明讓這個相關的報導知道說我們這邊事實上一直有在四處善意我想這個對兩岸的往來會是一件非常正面的事情以上所以這個決議我也請這個民進黨團還有民眾黨團一同支持謝謝"},{"start":5238.338,"end":5241.641,"text":"謝謝接下來柯建民總召發言然後請林國成委員請準備"},{"start":5268.799,"end":5287.977,"text":"我們現在要講原因啦我整天一直要促成開放嘛但是你要想一想到底為什麼觀光客不來嘛要講原因大家要比較清楚嘛當然第一個我們不希望說是本末倒置啦這是台中中國的問題啊因為派人來你叫人"},{"start":5290.498,"end":5308.277,"text":"我們沒有反對他,他來採信以後也沒有回應啊我們還辦,這個月還辦觀光旅遊展嘛,我們還十天辦到十五號所以今天我們要講這個原因是什麼請問大家都知道,那最近的歧視也很窮峻"},{"start":5309.694,"end":5338.551,"text":"二十一號以後有所謂的這個審度審視台獨的二十二條意見那已經變成橙色的 橙燈的嘛 橙色的燈號大家敢不敢啊這個這個那那國家那國家法律上國家的作為上當然要給人民很多就一些一些警示或是建議看法我這個話讓這個是國家案件上必須考慮考慮的"},{"start":5339.551,"end":5359.47,"text":"那我們今天來講這個是應該是滾動式檢討不是說以我們金門開放就好你咱們想想看大陸他們對我們的開放從2019年8月1號開始大陸對於個人旅遊全部禁止來台灣對不對我想你也沒有活了對金門是開放的聽我講完嘛"},{"start":5364.164,"end":5369.095,"text":"好,那到我們女女傳的部分齁"},{"start":5371.894,"end":5397.933,"text":"文理部從七年一月到現在全部禁止新聞過來第一要看一方面的罪犯我們一方面的罪犯我們一方面的罪犯分析錯過零去大陸回來的時間得到什麼得到福建道平台福建道馬祖那個根本一點用處都沒有而平台是高度高度那個"},{"start":5399.674,"end":5412.933,"text":"戰略議會所以他們一直跟我們做統戰你都不思考這個問題我們剛才講過我們在今年五月底以前有存成的部分全部給他出完"},{"start":5415.375,"end":5438.653,"text":"已經2月開始到3月到5月之間已經成團了全部給他出去但是後面我們就不再處理了因為他們對我們是相當敵意 都那麼緊嘛現在他要求我們這邊要開 這不對吧所以應該這個 要再想這個原因啦 要想清楚那我比較"},{"start":5440.274,"end":5462.971,"text":"大家想說這個整個政策方向是誰何以自知嘛這萬般有罪是罪在中國不是罪在我們啊所以你應該把這顛倒要建議大陸來開放不是我們這邊開放邏輯上不要搞錯而且一環一個決議案可以來主導國家政策我不認為有這樣的呈現這是總統之權"},{"start":5468.899,"end":5469.019,"text":"請林國成委員發言"},{"start":5491.63,"end":5495.094,"text":"我想本黨很樂見三黨坐下來談這些敏感的問題但是第一個離島的觀光確實是三個離島經濟主要來源的收入"},{"start":5514.498,"end":5541.387,"text":"這一點議政委員所講的確確實實是這樣但是當然也要考慮到這些兩岸國安之問題這個基本上我也是支持但是我在看兩岸到底的政策像現在剛剛柯總召所講的如果堅持今天立法院沒有提出這些開頭那"},{"start":5543.207,"end":5556.043,"text":"國安他怎麼會去做參考跟考慮所以我個人還有我們黨裡面兩岸和平這些是我們追求所以這些開放離島第一 離島的東西"},{"start":5559.338,"end":5575.35,"text":"其實國安的問題是減少的那如果我們今天把離島把它開放那我認為這個部分會有兩岸和平的契機所以我們本黨啊站在本黨的立場第一"},{"start":5576.03,"end":5594.479,"text":"觀光提升是有必要第二我們還是蠻希望未來兩岸和平那更重要所以我是覺得先拋出橄欖枝去那對岸不來那是你的事但是我的善意已經先表達所以我認為這個案子"},{"start":5597.1,"end":5613.525,"text":"應該大家坐下來好好談怎麼樣把它開端這樣的話兩岸的和平契機是有的所以本黨支持這個案子大家要好好來談支持這個案子謝謝林國成委員接下來請洪森漢委員請發言"},{"start":5616.203,"end":5644.476,"text":"好我想其實我想各政黨都支持這個擴大觀光的觀光經濟這都沒有問題但我覺得我自己也希望這個行政部門可以說明一下現在各國都面對這個去中國的旅遊風險的問題這其實不是只是台灣面對而已並不是只是陸委會來公布成登的警示以下是幾個近期這個民主國家"},{"start":5645.396,"end":5670.767,"text":"都提供了警示我念一下給大家聽美國在2023年的時候其實就說了因為中國的國安法所以提醒非必要不要前往這是美國再來韓國的國情院近期也發出旅遊警示警示從7月1號起入境中國可能被任意檢查手及任意拘捕這是韓國"},{"start":5673.1,"end":5699.974,"text":"愛爾蘭在5月16日發出警告提醒中國當局可能會對個人實施出境禁令阻止他們離開該國並提醒此類禁令與拘捕或禁令不同是中國法律程序的一部分可能持續數月或更長時間加拿大政府在6月26日更新它的旅遊建議提醒國人去中國會有任意執行當地法律的風險請在中國保持高度謹慎"},{"start":5701.215,"end":5729.886,"text":"澳洲的部分是在7月1號更新旅遊提醒建議澳洲人民要在中國保持高度謹慎並告知中國當局恐以危害國家安全為由拘捕外國人英國政府也一樣提醒民眾要注意中國政府跟國家安全法我要說的事情是這不是只針對台灣這不是只針對民進黨執政的政府因為民進黨並沒有在剛剛上述這些民主國家都執政"},{"start":5731.633,"end":5739.719,"text":"但是對於這些國際上面的每一個民主國家都提高了對中國附中旅遊的警示都在提醒"},{"start":5741.434,"end":5766.994,"text":"會有被任意拘捕檢查手機的安全的問題我自己想問第一個我也想請教行政部門我們對這個部分我們目前因應的作為是什麼第二個我知道今天這來的檔當然我覺得也是出於一個好意希望能夠解除這個禁團令但是一樣還是面對這個風險那大家對這個風險的看法是什麼這不是只是台灣比如說你們換一個政黨執政就沒了沒有這些國家不是都民黨執政那大家都面對這些問題那大家的看法是什麼"},{"start":5771.994,"end":5781.628,"text":"我們會不會現在讓更多的國人到中國去旅遊反而製造了大家更大的安全上面的風險這事情大家怎麼面對 怎麼處理這個問題好 謝謝"},{"start":5785.809,"end":5787.431,"text":"兩岸恢復觀光交流我想只要在安全無虞在彼此善意友善的狀況之下大家都樂見"},{"start":5808.967,"end":5820.778,"text":"這段時間以來我們就用具體的數字來看一看這個input跟output在臺灣赴陸或是陸方來臺灣的一些實質的觀光人數如果從2023年的話臺灣到中國有176萬人"},{"start":5825.723,"end":5841.815,"text":"但是中國來到台灣只有二十二點六萬人這是去年如果以今年一到六月上半年的統計台灣復入到中國的超過一百萬人次而中方的來到台灣只有十五萬所以數字會說話"},{"start":5843.576,"end":5864.274,"text":"就開放性、就彼此的互通、input output我想這是一個很大的懸殊的差異所以問題在哪一方其實用數字來凸顯也非常清楚那第二個如果說聚焦在郁真委員非常關心的這個離島小三通、金馬澎的部分"},{"start":5864.995,"end":5891.126,"text":"我想也是可以把一些實質的做法在這裡也再還原一下如果說中國依小三通的相關辦法申請到金馬來旅行那原本就是包括在一百一十二年八月政府就已經公布的我想郁真很清楚恢復兩岸觀光的規劃方案只要陸方開放就可以馬上做這第一件事情聚焦在臺灣對於開放小三通到金馬澎這個三"},{"start":5892.886,"end":5919.989,"text":"離島的觀光旅遊這第一件事情我們做了是在威挺中方嘛第二個依據中國文旅部一百一十三年四月二十八剛公佈的內容僅率先恢復福建到馬祖嘛但是也沒有到金門嘛所以說如果說陸方對於到金門旅遊的障礙在誰陸方啊他為什麼沒有開放他只開放到馬祖嘛我想玉珍你一直點頭你也很清楚嘛"},{"start":5920.609,"end":5936.321,"text":"第三個就是剛剛來的那個彩線團對不對福州市旅遊協會到馬祖的這個彩線團是今年六月底已經完成了OK 如果他們彩線完對於我們的所有觀光台灣確實是可以吸引他們來的話只要他們"},{"start":5937.542,"end":5958.987,"text":"開放那馬上就可以專案審查我想我們陸委會政府的這個態度是非常的清楚所以聚焦在今天這個提案的本題就是尋小三通、金馬澎、三離島觀光的部分其實聚焦也可以看得出來我們是open的只要陸方ok其實就可以達到所以說這個橄欖枝"},{"start":5961.408,"end":5976.522,"text":"我想臺灣政府不是橄欖枝而已啦等那橄欖樹可能都背在肩上扛出來了啦所以這個東西路方這個對等在等對方的回應而不是只對自己臺灣政府來給予很多的壓力跟這個要求"},{"start":5977.795,"end":6002.017,"text":"當然我們要講剛申瀚委員說的時機對不對大家要想想這個時機對不對長期以來兩岸的互動觀光友善的狀況之下安全平等的前提之下這是OK的可是現在這個時機中國公布了懲毒二十二條的這個時機之下剛宏委員講了很多美國、英國、澳洲、愛爾蘭、韓國"},{"start":6005.1,"end":6031.298,"text":"這國際都在限制．或者是對於國人赴中國旅行．提出很多的示警作為．的這個當下．如果台灣的國會．就在這個當下．做了這個決議．去要求我們的自己的政府．去都開放．那我們除了讓陸方覺得說．你台灣都不怕很好．我這成都二十二條．剛剛好而已．"},{"start":6032.259,"end":6049.794,"text":"這是第一個對國內造成我們對國人的心理狀態示警還是你是鼓勵大家去你是希望大家安全的前提盡量少去還是因為國會了做成這個決議就是鼓勵大家趕快去這對於國內的視聽是一個混淆第二個對於國際的視聽更是一個錯誤的訊息的傳達"},{"start":6053.615,"end":6067.759,"text":"對於中國對於台灣端出這樣成都二十二條對台灣人的安全造成很大疑慮的當下我們的國會做出這個決議反其道而行好像是附和呼應中國這個給"},{"start":6070.06,"end":6087.63,"text":"國際社會錯誤的訊息我覺得這個更為嚴重我們不可不慎因為這是一個國會的決議民進黨作為國會的51席我們對於這個覺得非常難以接受在這個所以它不是一個good timing它是一個bad timing最後國安問題"},{"start":6089.051,"end":6106.624,"text":"好 剛剛柯總長也講了這涉及國安體系的綜合評估這也涉及行政的職權甚至涉及總統的權利啦我們用一個決議的方式立院決議就要求這樣做我覺得這個層面上也是要多多的考量的謝謝吳司長的發言麻煩請陸委會李副主委發言表達意見 然後請交通部準備"},{"start":6116.806,"end":6143.901,"text":"院長、各位委員陸委會請就剛剛幾位委員提到的一些事項來做說明首先是入客來台觀光的部分其實總統520的就職演說有提到先重啟雙邊對等的觀光旅遊開始要共同追求兩岸的和平共榮所以那個時候我們政府就有把恢復兩岸觀光旅遊列為推動兩岸交流的一個很重要的工作"},{"start":6144.861,"end":6172.491,"text":"那這個部分剛剛幾位委員也有提到其實消防部跟陸委會在去年八月就已經有對外公布這個兩岸團體旅遊恢復的一個規劃而且在去年九月我們就做好了相關準備也就是等陸方來相對開放我們就可以來落實那同時為了這個促成陸客到金馬來觀光所以各位也有提到我們最近也做了很多努力包括開放讓"},{"start":6174.771,"end":6179.673,"text":"馬祖彩線團、夏季旅展、金夏永渡等對於陸方關切的議題我們也都積極處理當中在這些之後我們也有對外去說彩線團之後我們很歡迎陸方趕快有陸客提出"},{"start":6198.14,"end":6212.93,"text":"馬祖金門的旅行申請我們會依程序來專案審查所以目前入客沒有辦法到金門馬祖或者是台灣來觀光旅遊這個部分的障礙的確是在中國方面"},{"start":6213.81,"end":6238.147,"text":"那第二個部分我們要說明就是剛剛也有委員提到就是目前整個兩岸情勢是真的是比較複雜而且嚴峻那尤其中共對我們是採取一個複合式的威脅那他也公布了一系列的國安法規那當然這在國際間又引起了一些關注又發布了旅遊警示那我們是在今年6月21號"},{"start":6240.729,"end":6255.516,"text":"中國發布了審讀二十二條意見之後陸委會這邊就覺得國人到大陸去旅遊的風險還有人身安全的風險在提高所以我們就在六月二十七號把附錄"},{"start":6257.117,"end":6277.877,"text":"的這個旅遊警示燈號提高為橙色那這個橙色的意思是要提醒國人在行前要審慎評估去大陸的必要性那當然這個時候如果我們要把這個所有的國人組團赴陸的限制通通都解除那其實它就有一個訊號是告訴國人說您去大陸旅遊其實"},{"start":6281.921,"end":6303.313,"text":"是安心的所以這就會誤導國人對於目前他去赴陸會有人身安全、旅遊風險的這種狀況會誤導他讓他失去警覺那同時也會對國際社會釋放出一個錯誤的訊息所以我們是覺得當前我們這個旅遊的警示是不應該來做一個調整"},{"start":6305.214,"end":6322.081,"text":"那剛剛也有提到整個兩岸目前的旅遊開放其實是不對等的那其實我們從來就沒有禁止國人到大陸去個人旅遊或是他去參加團體來旅遊但是陸方他是基於政治理由在"},{"start":6323.502,"end":6337.829,"text":"2019年8月就禁止入客來台所謂的個人遊就自由行所以到去年已經有176萬人次去大陸了那到今年的1到6月以後超過100萬人次的國人到大陸去"},{"start":6338.949,"end":6362.816,"text":"在旅行社攬客組團的部分．交通部也在今年的二月七號．有發布一個函令．已經招攬的旅行團．可以在三月一號．到五月三十一號去大陸．行政院的五月三十號．院會之後．交通部有宣布六月一號前．已經規劃的旅行團．也可以繼續去附入．後續相似情形來滾動檢討．"},{"start":6364.857,"end":6382.728,"text":"但是路芳在疫情之後也就是從2023年1月到現在他們對於他們的組團社可以帶團到境外去旅遊的部分的國家有138個還有包括港澳但是就是沒有包括台灣所以到目前為止"},{"start":6384.469,"end":6405.017,"text":"來臺觀光的入客人數是零所以兩岸的旅遊是呈現一個相當的不對等所以我們覺得在這個時候這樣的一個決議的確是會牽涉到一些國安的問題那也涉及到兩岸的互動過去都是一直由國安部門跟行政部門共同來處理的"},{"start":6407.039,"end":6414.751,"text":"我們希望未來還是會在整個因應兩岸整體的情勢而且考量國家整體的利益我們來加以滾動的檢討"},{"start":6422.042,"end":6443.278,"text":"好 院長各位委員那交通部現在就這個議題來做以下的一個說明首先還是一樣這個應該是跟陸委會是一致的立場也是總統的就職演說已經特別提到兩岸可以先從重啟雙邊對等觀光開始我想這是一個整體政府的一個立場"},{"start":6444.099,"end":6471.281,"text":"那對於入客我們國人復入的這樣的旅行團的一個期待其實在這個復入旅行社復入我們本來是規劃在今年的這個5月31號指那是考量有一定的數量的旅行團未能於5月底成行然後所以呢為維護這個旅客及旅行業者權利"},{"start":6471.941,"end":6498.171,"text":"所以我們在這個旅行社特別強調旅行社在今年的二月二日前已經成團或已經規劃組團的在六月一號以前仍然可以出團所以意思就是說到目前這還是國人赴大陸組團的方式還是可以用這樣的一個方式但是以後就是不可以再招攬出團那我們的了解到目前為止這個"},{"start":6500.272,"end":6520.491,"text":"三到五月出去的旅行人透過組團大概有十一萬人次那六月呢剛才講在以前規劃六月出團的大概有一點一萬人所以說這樣的人次還是繼續有在這個出團那接下來要說明的就是說剛才這個副主委也特別提到"},{"start":6521.452,"end":6545.591,"text":"兩岸的這樣的一個旅遊恢復健康有序的交流一向是政府的一個政策但是有關入客來台觀光的部分就試設這個大陸事務這個整體的一個政策跟評估跟規劃所以為了確保兩岸健康有序的一個恢復交流我們交通部會配合相關的政策辦理相關的事宜就適時來滾動檢討相關的政策讓這個"},{"start":6550.514,"end":6568.489,"text":"兩岸的觀光業者獲得最大的利益循序推動兩岸恢復民間的一個交流我想這是交通部對這個案子的一個立場剛才洪珊漢委員特別提到旅遊警訊發布的時候相關我想旅遊警訊是陸委會在今年的6月27號發布"},{"start":6571.011,"end":6595.727,"text":"入港澳的旅遊的陳設警示其實代表的意義是避免非必要的旅行所以這樣的一個警示發布了之後交通部跟觀光署曾經多次的向旅行業者或國人特別提醒非必要的話要考慮到大陸旅遊非必要"},{"start":6596.447,"end":6601.689,"text":"要避免前往．要考慮自身的安全．要考慮目前赴大陸旅遊．有一定的風險"},{"start":6620.804,"end":6644.964,"text":"我想我們今天這個提案國民黨團提出來是一個民生議題但是我們看到這個民進黨團還有相關的單位都是在用政治來回答不過我們還是讓它回歸民生議題來討論然後來聚焦到底大家現在好像因為民進黨團說的都非常好聽這跟昨天健保的點子很像我們非常支持醫生醫療產業但是健保點子絕對不能給他們保障"},{"start":6648.827,"end":6676.17,"text":"我們非常支持醫療觀光的業者但是我們絕對要把他限制起來他那裡不能去,這裡不能來非常的矛盾不過我還說幾點這個民黨團對這個對這個整個兩岸之間的這個有關的一些往來的不了解而且說出了道國為因的這個說法2019年8月1日剛剛柯總召說大陸全面禁止自由行不好意思我告訴您2019年8月2日全面禁止自由行後來事實上也是從8月1日金馬澎都是開放的"},{"start":6676.61,"end":6697.958,"text":"大陸旅客赴金馬澎是開放的這個您可能不了解所以我們今天特別提出為什麼要優先開放大陸觀光小三通到金馬澎也是希望說在在兩岸這個關係還這麼不好的情況下禁止的情況下很禁止的情況下從金馬澎先做試點先行先試第二個 剛剛吳士堯委員說台灣赴"},{"start":6700.899,"end":6728.866,"text":"大陸是一百七十六萬大陸赴台灣是二十六萬你有說出一些數據所以你知道背景嗎你現在是盜國唯一因為大陸到台灣來因為台灣沒有開放嘛中華民國沒有開放讓中國大陸人民進來台灣嘛這之前我們爭取相同久從小三通的要重啟到後來這個旅遊團的靠因為就是沒有開放所以才來的人少嘛當初我們沒有什麼過去嘛所以我們去的人多嘛"},{"start":6729.566,"end":6753.268,"text":"這是因為政策關係造成這個結果你現在把這個結果拿來講說這個你又盜國為虞嘛好 接著剛剛洪聖諾委員說的這個什麼這個什麼這個區域很危險什麼的陸委會要發布什麼警戒是陸委會的職權我們陳社警我知道我不是介意他發布什麼東西而是你們抱著一種為之父為之母的想法來限制人民的行動"},{"start":6754.309,"end":6766.065,"text":"百姓自然會你發布了這個警戒百姓如果覺得很危險他自然就不會去百姓如果願意去他就是覺得可以我想請問交通部菲律賓是什麼警戒什麼顏色的自由嗎菲律賓我國國民赴菲律賓我想知道一下"},{"start":6773.638,"end":6793.436,"text":"是橙色的嗎?還是紅色的嗎?那是外交部在發布的你們不知道?好菲律賓前一陣子還發生幾個人在那邊進去馬上被槍決被那個行刑這個Sayonara的怎麼我們沒有看到相關的部會做相關的什麼警戒不過我也不是要討論這個我們在聚焦啦齁這個提案裡頭兩件事情一個就是"},{"start":6794.608,"end":6822.375,"text":"解除我國的人民赴大陸去觀光這個第一個那這個東西你們說沒有禁止吧你們現在是有禁止有禁團令這個差別是在哪裡我跟各位報告這個差別是說如果有這個禁團令我不知道教育部了不了解我想說反正大家剛委員說都可以自由去啊也沒有規定你不能去啊你想去你就去啊但是我跟觀光業有詢問的我也覺得很疑惑我說那反正每個人都可以去有什麼好這個禁團令不禁團令有影響嗎"},{"start":6823.295,"end":6849.713,"text":"業者這樣告訴我 或者說你們提出解決的方法業者告訴說 有這個禁團令 如果他們帶團出去的時候他們沒有辦法做什麼保險 是嗎沒有去辦法做什麼 我想了解這個事情就是說沒有辦法去申請什麼旅評險啊 什麼險 什麼險 這些類的如果去大陸 如果你沒有這個禁團令因為交通部規定說不能帶團出去那所以他們沒有辦法向業者提出業者沒有辦法向保險提出相關的保險那如果這個可以幫他們解決 你們禁不禁團其實影響不大"},{"start":6853.395,"end":6869.263,"text":"因為每個人本來就 現在本來我們開放金馬的人民就可以自由要去哪裡去哪裡沒有規定你哪裡不能去哪裡 不然是警戒而已嘛你想去你去嘛但是為什麼建團令業者會一直的我也是跟業者說反正你們想去就去 有什麼好在那邊爭執半天的反正也沒有限制你不能出去啊 對不對"},{"start":6871.104,"end":6878.769,"text":"那是不是有這件事情我想這個是一個真點啦我們在幫業者思考嘛對不對是不是說保險這個部分如果可以聽他們覺得他進團進團他有保險第二個這是過去的問題嘛過來的問題這句話應該也沒有什麼問題啊我想大家都支持你們剛剛不是有說福建陸委會有說福建的這個這個道馬族的彩線團來我們也歡迎他們到金馬澎來參觀嘛"},{"start":6894.74,"end":6911.508,"text":"這個你們也支持了嘛這個剛我聽起來也都是支持的民進黨也是支持他們到這邊來那這個決議最後半段也沒什麼問題啊差別是我都覺得有一點點差別是說陸委會剛剛說的是說專案許可什麼事情都要專案許可你是意圖造成特權的存在嗎"},{"start":6913.584,"end":6931.778,"text":"是不是有人講就成有沒有講就不成嗎我們要的就是自由競爭的市場就是說任何人就是都可以自由來那國安的我們來講到國安議題那如果照你們這樣子講法的話你們應該就把我們的這個颱風金馬整個海域鎖起來哪裡都不能去啊"},{"start":6932.478,"end":6932.578,"text":"請公決案．"},{"start":6948.288,"end":6966.973,"text":"回答那個議題,這個聚焦在哪裏?是,我跟委員報告一下,現在那個保險的,如果現在在出團的,合法出團的,他可以保旅責險。你們進團,他們就不能組團嘛,是不是?他們如果組團可以保險嗎?你就回答這樣就好。"},{"start":6967.955,"end":6991.314,"text":"那個 因為是一個禁團 所以沒有所謂禁團還要保險 整團保險的問題因為它是 那如果是你個人要去 本來 本來個人個人沒有關係 本來就是個人有保險的問題所以他們就不能保險嘛 對不對所以這個大原則是現在是在禁團令中是啦 所以因為禁團令 所以沒有辦法阻礙所以如果真的有國人要去 想去的話 他們也不能去保險造成旅遊業者操作上的困擾嘛"},{"start":6992.395,"end":7010.334,"text":"報告他去 因為進團他個人要去的時候他個人就有保險 團體要去呢他團體現在要進團嘛所以沒有不可以參團對嘛 所以這個進團的差別就在這裡不是像剛剛民進黨委員所說的每個人都可以自由去喔如果比如說我們有一個參鄉團要去拜拜那 那旅遊 要讓旅遊業者來辦啦不可能說每個人都自己去嘛"},{"start":7010.974,"end":7025.099,"text":"對吧 個人可以去啊 個人可以 那你就是在讓業者可以這樣 比如說要化名為案嘛就每個人用自己身份去 然後每個人自己去保險現在業者事實上就是要做手法你們沒有辦法保障到國人的安全你們了解嗎 實務上就是這個樣子"},{"start":7031.909,"end":7060.077,"text":"各位看一下憲法尊重條文第四條第四項總統為國家安全是國安事是總統事項所以以我來講沒有所謂優惠於憲法的問題優惠於總統之權的問題這很清楚嘛我們不要再直接在那邊打轉我真的要在這裡打轉事實上沒辦法講話 我很快不要再直接打轉然後假這個觀光自民"},{"start":7061.597,"end":7089.597,"text":"實在是配合中國統戰嘛 這個很清楚嘛這一點我們絕對是這種看法絕對絕對是堅持這種看法你沒有優惠啊 你可以稍微憲法就中委之前 你反正一個一個決議案就叫我們要怎麼做事情嘛今天要做什麼事情所以這一點不要導 另外不要導我的原因啊今天招人這個眼淫水 當中國大陸嘛你應該去建議中國大陸才對啊 怎麼建議我們的"},{"start":7090.39,"end":7113.258,"text":"好 謝謝 我們現在休息五分鐘 請各黨團協商也跟行政部門溝通 五分鐘之後我們開始恢復開會 我就進行處理 謝謝中華民國憲法人民有居住 遷徙自由 總統也是不能違憲的 我跟你說旅遊就是遷徙自由啊對啊沒有限制旅遊啊你都只想這些政治 你有沒有想過業者咧"},{"start":7120.185,"end":7144.587,"text":"然後呢如果要團體去參鄉的那要每個人自己各自各自去你可以說是這麼不符合現實的說法嗎你到底有沒有活在這個世界裡對啊那你可以自由行還不准組團是為什麼那你們去跟中國講啊我是中華民國的立法委員好不好我能要求的就是中華民國的政府單位中方對等開放就沒有問題"},{"start":7145.988,"end":7150.114,"text":"退等開放就是你們應該去講的這是你們的責任你是執政黨這就是你們的責任"},{"start":7151.96,"end":7157.142,"text":"中華民國沒有兩部憲法有沒有居住限制自由當然有自由啊當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有當然有"},{"start":7177.81,"end":7177.95,"text":"這國際對等問題啊"},{"start":7266.656,"end":7269.25,"text":"那也是要找到最好的嘛"},{"start":7616.53,"end":7643.272,"text":"好,謝謝,院會已經在等我們了好,謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位列席的官員也請坐那,經過協商之後顯然沒有辦法達成共識那我們就送院會處理好,謝謝陸委會跟交通部所有列席的官員,謝謝你們我們進行下一案下面一案"},{"start":7864.793,"end":7867.088,"text":"因為這個是民眾黨提案的嘛"},{"start":7923.827,"end":7952.709,"text":"陳次長交通部的你們可以先休息一下因為我們連來進行刑法暫時跟你們部門沒有關係好不好請休息 請休息一下花東快還那個零四零三刑法二八六那個那個喔那是某樣先講不嘛"},{"start":7955.865,"end":7959.875,"text":"我們等一下討論到花東快再請陳次長來就可以了好不好請先休息一下"},{"start":7962.745,"end":7991.27,"text":"院長有關花東快跟0403齁我們上禮拜有在講很久昨天早上我叫所有部會四個部會都去跟副總統協商那得出四個決議像這個決議改了農村會兩個決議那我們都沒問題簽了那這樣簽了以後代表什麼那0403以及花東快特別條例就測案這個很清楚早上我在這裡簽來了"},{"start":7994.693,"end":7997.616,"text":"等一下花東快啊"},{"start":8479.271,"end":8487.699,"text":"請問法務部的法務部的代表到了嗎?司法院謝謝啊司法院國民黨到了歡迎歡迎"},{"start":8870.669,"end":8871.91,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8901.681,"end":8927.907,"text":"好 謝謝我們今天討論中華民國刑法我們今天延伸中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案司法及法治委員會我再呼籲一次我們會場保持宿敬好不好好不好 大家請保持安靜好嗎請不要再站來走來走去了好 非常的凌亂"},{"start":8932.13,"end":8950.811,"text":"我們今天一起朝以協商中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案司法及法治委員會並案審查黃建豪等二十位委員凝聚中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案等十案審查會於一百一三年四月十七日審查完略審查結果第七十七條"},{"start":8952.192,"end":8974.622,"text":"徵定第二百七十二條之一．第二百八十六條及徵定第二百八十六條之一．均保留送院會處理．並決議院會討論前需交由黨團協商另院會第十一次、十二次、十三次會議．分別將賴世保委員、陳金威委員．盧憲一委員、徐宇峥委員等．盧明哲委員等．"},{"start":8975.342,"end":8994.101,"text":"提案分別禁服二讀各自制委員會抽出禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商國民黨團於7月11日召集協商由吳宗憲委員主持針對刑法第286條加重虐童刑責進行協商由於有黨團代表未出席討論尚未達成共識"},{"start":8995.382,"end":9021.559,"text":"我們本次會議協商之條文共計四條第七十七條增訂第二七二之一第二八六條及第二八六之一我們現在先歡迎今天列行的我們法務部的政務次黃次長歡迎您司法院的吳祕書長歡迎您還有各位法務部跟司法院各級官員代表現在我們先請提案的國民黨團請表達意見"},{"start":9029.107,"end":9052.278,"text":"好 謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員那我想今天我們提案的這個刑法二八六條主要就是針對虐童的部分那為什麼會提這個我跟大家分享當初有一個新聞民國一百一十一年十月十九號有一個新聞就是一個女童遭受虐待變成二成的骷髏的樣子最後那個繼父被判四年兩個月那原因就是因為當時起訴的原因是用這個"},{"start":9053.218,"end":9076.253,"text":"殺人未遂跟這個虐童的這個方式來起訴但是在這個要件上面因為殺人未遂沒有成立嘛那最後變成只有虐童但是虐童按照現在最重的刑度最重最重就是五年而已所以說最後因為雖然他這個虐童的情況非常嚴重但是因為你用虐童去辦他只會有四他最後判出來就四年那我想這個東西跟傷害罪比起來"},{"start":9077.093,"end":9092.749,"text":"現行的傷害罪針對兒童的部分也都有加重期刑但對於虐童是沒有的所以這一條我們覺得說虐童的部分當然幾年我個人沒有什麼堅持一定要幾年但是我覺得虐童法義上比起來它應該要比傷害罪"},{"start":9093.429,"end":9113.829,"text":"來得更重所以說因為虐待兒童這個樣態跟傷害也不太一樣當初這個新聞報導裡面法官也提到說在何以廷的法案裡面也提到說就是因為我們這個立法委員這邊我們的法律的要件裡面就只有虐童沒有傷害的部分而且傷害跟虐待的樣態也不一樣所以以虐待兒童這個樣態來講我們應該在286裡面"},{"start":9117.652,"end":9137.943,"text":"針對兒童的部分應該要加重它的刑度．而不是用現在的刑度去規範虐待．我想虐待跟傷害在這個構成要件上是不一樣的．所以我們希望說在二八六部分．把虐待兒童的部分的刑度應該要加重一點．以上說明謝謝我們提案的黃建豪委員的說明．接下來請民進黨黨團發言．台灣民眾黨團請準備請沈伯陽委員發言"},{"start":9144.175,"end":9171.485,"text":"好 那我先聚焦一下這個很高興大家關心這個兒童的這一個發展那因為這一個 因為這裡面還包含這一個我記得是亮偉翔提案他有一個七十七條然後後面還有這個蘇勛銓委員的提案的一個286之一所以其實有好幾條那我們先針對286那另外兩條的待會再說明那第一個就是根據這些提案會有一些立法例上的一些問題就是說那個歲數的一個規定有點不一而足所以我覺得這個應該要收攏"},{"start":9172.765,"end":9202.325,"text":"但是剛好有看到這一個國民黨團的修正動議跟民眾黨團的修正動議都是用七歲這看起來是一個應該是一個正確的方向但再來就是關於這個加重結果犯因為在刑法上加重結果犯是故意加過失那我們看到各黨團的這些委員的版本很多都是把這個致死變成是死刑那通常在刑法的立法例上面致死會跑到死刑非常非常的少見只有在這個三四七吧就是魯仁勒屬因為他本來就已經刑度非常高"},{"start":9202.765,"end":9217.947,"text":"所以他才會在致死又死刑的規定所以在這邊致死死刑的規定有可能是不符合這個立法例甚至有一些委員的規定他是比殺人還重那就變成一個道德危險就是說他殺人還比較重那他還不如不要去做這些事情那再來就是這一個"},{"start":9221.19,"end":9241.349,"text":"二八六之一雖然是等一下要討論但是因為二八六之一有一個重複評價的問題這個如果等一下要討論的時候再講那最後呢我想提一下就是如果按照現在新的這一個剛剛有看到國民黨的一個修正動議跟民眾黨的修正動議我先講民眾黨黨團他說這個未滿七歲犯第一項然後呢去加重其刑二分之一"},{"start":9242.049,"end":9257.954,"text":"這個是一個比較快速的一個立法方式因為就是一律就是把這前幾項加重那這個加重的方式會跟兒少的這個一百一十二條會有一個不能說衝突但是就是兒少一百一十二條也有加重二分之一所以或許大家可以看法務部能不能夠幫個忙就是說"},{"start":9259.975,"end":9284.772,"text":"看這一個跟兒少的規定我們要怎麼去做出區別我覺得這是一個那至於對於國民黨團的這一個修正動議就會有剛剛講的問題雖然他前面用這一個未滿七歲未成年人犯七年以上這是一種加重但因為後面他因而致人於死者直接走到死刑那這跟整個刑法的立法例跟那個刑度平均的方式不一樣所以呢我覺得可能我們可以從民眾黨黨團的這一個版本還有這個民進黨團的這個修正的版本來做討論 謝謝"},{"start":9289.393,"end":9316.499,"text":"謝謝沈柏洋委員的發言接下來請台灣民眾黨黨團發言主席還有各位黨團的代表台灣民眾黨黨團針對286條所提出來的修正動議我們基本上是肯認對於七歲以下的未成年人不管是他保護自己的能力或者是說對於他進行凌虐所造成的傷害"},{"start":9317.677,"end":9326.694,"text":"都更為嚴重因此針對七歲以下其他的委員所提出來的規定"},{"start":9328.212,"end":9350.139,"text":"對於七歲以下的要進一步的保護加重他的處罰的這個方向我們是認同的那只不過說在立法上面我們會去做這樣子的處理是因為有很多不同的版本彼此之間在去調整一二三四項的法定型的時候他"},{"start":9351.121,"end":9377.706,"text":"沒有一個統一合邏輯的規定所以我們會認為用加重期刑二分之一的方式去強化他的處罰那至於說兒少法那邊加重期刑的規定他本來就不會用在二八六我理解應該沒有錯啦兒少法那邊的規定是用在普通傷害罪我們之前實務上所發生的問題是普通傷害罪加上兒少法的二分之一"},{"start":9379.437,"end":9398.125,"text":"做了以後然後286到底還有多少適用的空間上次在詢答的時候我也跟法務部的官員有做過意見的交換你們後來也去做了意見的整理出來所以在286這一邊不會有兒少法那邊加重二分之一的問題"},{"start":9400.101,"end":9409.349,"text":"我想這個應該沒有沒有什麼樣子的規範重複的問題根本就不存在"},{"start":9410.744,"end":9434.576,"text":"這樣子的問題兒少法的二分之一是跟普通商愛罪277連結在一起的那286因為本來就針對保護的客體做特別的規定所以就不會有兒少法那邊規範的問題現行實務上面這已經是一個非常穩定的運作狀態了我想這個討論應該是清楚的啦那只不過說在立法的政策上"},{"start":9436.745,"end":9451.096,"text":"針對一定歲數以下的幼童因為當初我們擴大保護到未滿18歲我覺得從國際潮流的角度上面來看這是沒有問題的但你說凌虐一個高中生"},{"start":9452.057,"end":9473.979,"text":"跟林若一個還在幼兒園的人．給他相同的法定型的考慮．這樣子的一個立法政策．是不是有重新檢討的必要．是不是應該給七歲以下．更沒有能力保護自己．他所造成的實害會更嚴重．從刑法上面的觀點．給他更重的處罰．"},{"start":9475.729,"end":9503.54,"text":"讓法官有更多的空間去給他做比較重的處罰才不會出現說剛剛黃建豪委員所在講的法官竟然在判決書裡面講講到好像是立法者的錯那我想我們肯定其他的委員針對286他們要加重處罰用意良善那這個方向基本上"},{"start":9504.505,"end":9520.86,"text":"我們也肯定那只不過說在立法的技術上面我們認為說化繁為簡針對要強化保護的客體用一個統一的規定來強化保護提出這樣子的一個修正動議也供各位黨團還有其他的委員考量"},{"start":9522.943,"end":9537.415,"text":"謝謝黃國昌總召的發言接下來是鍾嘉斌委員發言之後就請法務部以及司法院來回應回應之後我們會再請委員來發言發言完畢之後我們就會敲五分鐘左右的協商時間"},{"start":9538.536,"end":9553.693,"text":"好,謝謝主席請大家把這個程序報告一下,請中央嘉賓委員發言,請謝謝主席,我們新建目前由臺灣民眾黨團的修正動議和國民黨的修正動議呢有趨向一個方向一致的,大方向是一致的,這一點我們是予以肯定"},{"start":9554.514,"end":9568.735,"text":"那麼至於目前國民黨黨團的動議它在最後一項新增一項的部分呢之所以列入了死刑這個部分跟一般的殺人罪等等剛剛我們沈博洋委員已經說明了恐怕呢在"},{"start":9569.696,"end":9595.311,"text":"在行度上跟整個刑法的整個整體體力的均衡性上似乎不太適當我這裡要強調的是說在國民黨團的修正最後一項當中它也將第一項跟第二項意圖盈利與否並沒有做區分這一點我們很清楚在原來286的第一項當中它是六個月以上五年以下但是意圖盈利它就直接跳到五年以上"},{"start":9595.911,"end":9622.631,"text":"但是對於第一項跟第二項未滿七歲的犯第一項第二項之罪者他卻刑度是相同的這一點可能我們可以再斟酌可以把它做個區分那如果用這個角度來看的話臺灣民眾黨他們在第五項的部分直接是用加重其刑制二分之一的方式那這個方向上就符合了原第一項第二項所作的區分那可能比較能夠符合我們目前對七歲以下的保護原則"},{"start":9623.692,"end":9650.738,"text":"那剛剛有提到兒少法第一百一十二條呢他這裡面呢因為兒少的定義在我們這裡跟我們七歲以下定義的有所不同在兒少法當中未滿十二歲的是兒童十二歲以上未滿十八歲的是少年但是我們這裡是區分成七歲那所以呢在這裡面未來在一百一十二條的加重期二分之一的方式的適用上呢會出現了一個這個十八歲以未滿十八歲跟未滿七歲這個差別"},{"start":9653.018,"end":9680.243,"text":"那未來是否可以在我們特別針對未滿7歲以下的加強保護對他的法印與強化這個部分希望待會在法務部的時候能夠就這個部分來予以闡明那原則上個人認為我們目前台灣民眾黨所增列的第五項以未滿7歲來作為加重期刑二分之一的方向是予以肯認的但是希望跟兒少法第112條當中他的加重期刑二分之一他的"},{"start":9681.705,"end":9690.999,"text":"被害者的適用對象．一個是未滿18歲．一個是未滿7歲．如何在良心上再以區隔出特別的對象．這一點希望法務部能夠做一個建議"},{"start":9697.136,"end":9721.364,"text":"是主席還有大院各位委員大家好那我想剛才大家都有垂詢先做說明就是兒少法的第112條的適用跟本條之間的關係我想之前也講得很清楚就主要是兒少法第112條的第一項的但書還有說但各該罪就被害人系兒童及少年一定有特別處罰規定者"},{"start":9722.904,"end":9751.577,"text":"重啟規定也就是說因為我們整個刑法第286條他是規定對於未滿18歲之人所以課題剛好就落入了112條的但書的規定也就是說所以現在實務上面確實在適用第286條的時候並沒有辦法再援引而上法的第112條來重複的來做這個加重的處罰的規定所以說我們目前看到目前黨"},{"start":9752.797,"end":9770.223,"text":"各黨所提出的修正動議裡面臺灣民主黨黨團所提出的第五項事實上它確實是可以做一個加重的規定跟兒少法的一百一十二條是不會重複這是目前實務上的狀況我們針對國民黨團剛剛提出來的提案我們也做一些說明我們認為說從未滿六歲改成未滿七歲"},{"start":9779.987,"end":9806.579,"text":"我們覺得這個是比較妥當因為七歲現在也是我們很多的法令作為一個區隔的年齡層譬如說民法裡面的這個無形的能力到先行的能力那同時在我們目前的學制上面應該也是滿七歲來上小學所以說這個照顧的型態也會有一個很大的區隔所以我們在實務上以七歲做一個分隔點的案件數量的統計也有顯著的差別"},{"start":9807.259,"end":9826.192,"text":"所以這個情況底下我們認為七歲是一個比較好的區隔的時間點至於說這要採取用加重期刑到二分之一還是我們用國民黨團提案是分別來定這個刑度我們會建議用加重比較好因為國民黨團的這個目前的提案這個對於"},{"start":9829.548,"end":9849.015,"text":"法案第一項跟第二項之罪﹑處七年上已徒刑﹑如果我們加重之二分之一﹑其實罪重已經超過這一個﹑如果是已結合犯的部分﹑因而致人已死或致重傷﹑目前所列的刑度其實有一點已經跟"},{"start":9849.975,"end":9873.035,"text":"跟其他罪相比之下又有點太過所以我們會建議說是不是用統一來加重製衛門之一的立法例會比較周詳比較符合比例原則那麼以上是目前我們看到現有的修正動議版本的意見跟大院來做說明謝謝黃次長的說明接下來請司法院吳秘書長請"},{"start":9875.326,"end":9889.576,"text":"院長、各位委員、各位先進那關於這個刑法二八六條這個修正那這幾天我們跟法務部也都有很緊密的這個"},{"start":9892.418,"end":9910.029,"text":"互相來協調所以剛剛法務部的意見我們是同意就是從罪責相當原則還有刑法分責的這個刑度的體力來看我們是同意法務部的這個見解"},{"start":9912.31,"end":9935.551,"text":"其實這個跟今天台灣民眾黨提出來的修正動議那個意旨都是一樣只是文字上如何讓它跟一般刑法規定的那個體力能夠讓它更精簡所以其實內容都一樣意旨是一樣所以司法院是同意法務部的意見 謝謝"},{"start":9937.423,"end":9950.142,"text":"建華次長剛剛司法院的協議秘書長所提到的這個文字體力問題我們可以來協助把它跟刑法其他條文的文字體力把它一致化再提供給大院做參考"},{"start":9951.823,"end":9974.052,"text":"看到法務部跟司法院意見一致我們說不出來的高興現在請莊銳雄委員發言請楊瓊英委員準備謝謝院長還有我們各位協商代表其實我倒是這樣建議我們法務部跟司法院這個地方不要不好意思把這些委員或各政黨的版本一次你就把它全部當成一個法學教育把它提出來講這個裡面講的寫的其實這個"},{"start":9977.935,"end":9999.866,"text":"立法者這個提案可以想像他的初衷是要幹什麼是很討厭這種犯罪要把他加重可是這有些都亂定而且是你們也都沒有盡到說這個在整個刑法體系裡面該怎麼樣來做立法的要去跟現行體制稍微去跟他們做一個示意"},{"start":10000.646,"end":10001.287,"text":"他們在拗年齡區跟區隔拗三歲拗六歲然後整個條文"},{"start":10009.485,"end":10032.139,"text":"我們的刑法裡面你也不會去看到什麼一年以上八年以下一年以上十年以下什麼五年以上十年以下那剛好十年以上十二年以下這個都已經亂寫一通了然後你們法務部在那邊又不好意思去講又不好意思去講這看起來這個刑法本來我們的體力裡面就有一定的一個級距在"},{"start":10033.237,"end":10033.637,"text":"請公決案"},{"start":10048.885,"end":10072.547,"text":"那你要加重結果犯那他一定是前面有一個故意後面有一個過失那你後面也弄到全部都是死刑的話那個要弄死刑那就等於就跟故意犯殺人罪一模一樣啊這就聽起來就覺得很奇怪我就不談去談這個兩公約的事情啊所以你跟部分草案去徵定未滿一定連你是三歲到六歲以下的這個286的一個加重期刑"},{"start":10073.428,"end":10090.214,"text":"這個都缺乏立法的一個依據這個先這樣子一個說明但是呢國民黨版的草案這邊的參考我是我倒會覺得是不是也可以因為你講到未滿六歲我覺得林士明委員可能你就必須要"},{"start":10091.804,"end":10108.379,"text":"改了齁 改了齁 別這樣亂啦好不好你們寫這種版本寫得這個讓人家看不懂的版本會提出來本來就是很奇怪尤其是整部法令裡面從這個過程裡面我可以看得很可以看得出來"},{"start":10109.66,"end":10125.832,"text":"是我要來凸顯一下就是說大家都要回應民意這是一件好事但是在提案版本的時候拜託真的也不要去亂寫一通啦你像譬如說我們立法院我們自己制定出來"},{"start":10126.533,"end":10130.334,"text":"我們弄了一個從過去到現在全世界都一樣的有一個假釋的這個一個原則性的我們除了說你就執行行為滿六個月或者罪犯重罪三證條款那個部分或者性犯罪你再評估危險犯沒有顯著降低這些人不得假釋以外這是我們立法院所定的確立這樣的一個原則大家已經爭論過很久了你現在就把它又把它擴大了擴大說有這一些的全部都不能假釋"},{"start":10152.481,"end":10163.227,"text":"這個好像又有很奇怪的都失去整個制度啊讓萬一有一天那個人有一天可以更新回到社會的一個可能那只是因為現在民氣可用所以把這個路全部堵掉這樣的一個立法例啊"},{"start":10166.889,"end":10170.333,"text":"我倒認為我真的是岐岐以為不可啦年齡的部分真的不要亂定啦真的不要亂定奇怪我學過的民法跟刑法不是這樣啊怎麼看到的草案都跟原來完全都有不同那至於啊"},{"start":10181.886,"end":10209.237,"text":"台灣民眾黨所提出來的這個第五項那個部分倒是跟本黨這個地方意見都很累都幾乎大家趨近一個想法了像這一些你像比如說你對未滿七歲的未成年人去犯他的第一項第二項第四項你這個後面你說來把它做一個加重二分之一的話我倒認為這個就可以討論就很合理了那至於說一些亂提的法案法務部跟司法院你們這邊都失職了"},{"start":10211.718,"end":10216.793,"text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言接下來請楊瓊英委員發言請林思敏委員準備"},{"start":10218.265,"end":10243.874,"text":"謝謝主席我真的超感動剛剛司法院跟法務部次長陳儒主席所說的大家方向是一致要怎麼去做但是我也敬請因為草野協商大家也都非常的用心到目前為止民眾黨的版本國民黨的版本以及民進黨的修正動議都已經在大家的桌上"},{"start":10244.714,"end":10258.963,"text":"這是我們議事組人員都非常的辛苦所以因此大家面對到目前的社會現象是必須要去修改我們的法律去調整讓我們的社會能夠安心尤其我們這些孩子都是我們的寶貝坦白講我們如果這個年齡大家不去給他約束清楚在刑責方面在他們判定也會有所模擬兩可"},{"start":10273.772,"end":10299.969,"text":"所以今天在民眾黨的版本、國民黨的版本以及民進黨的版本修正動議最後都在這三份當中也請我們各位委員大家去看清楚因為在國民黨的版本當中也非常的明定對未滿七歲之未成年人犯罪的第一項跟第二項的罪者那麼非常明定的寫清楚"},{"start":10300.769,"end":10314.024,"text":"也就是說處七年以上有期徒刑因而致人於死者處死刑無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑者致重傷者處無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":10317.127,"end":10333.637,"text":"是否能夠讓我們的社會更加安定我們提出這樣的論點我們應當就針對這些的論點大家來做共同討論但是我非常感動的是到目前為止針對於我們的這個刑法第二百六條"},{"start":10335.078,"end":10361.057,"text":"當中大家都有一致性的方向也就是以目前的現行法律是不足以來安定民心保護我們的孩童所以我們還是希望能夠在大家共同討論拿到一個真正能夠幫助社會大眾的我們的二八六條的這個修正草案我也非常希望今天大家針對不管年齡或者是加重處分的部分都能夠有一個共識謝謝"},{"start":10363.872,"end":10387.719,"text":"謝謝楊瓊瑛委員發言接下來請林思敏委員發言郭介銘委員請準備是我想今天很高興我們看到不管是民進黨或者民眾黨還有我們的法務部還有司法院對二八六條的相關的修正我想大家的意見其實大概都差不多了但至於說這個到底要怎麼樣來修要加重執行大家是都意志一見我想這個立法技術的問題就對於未滿7歲的這些"},{"start":10391.48,"end":10418.645,"text":"為成年人我們是要怎麼樣來加重他的行動那我想剛才不管是民進黨或者民眾黨法務部都認為說加重其行之二分之一這是一個可行的方向我想雖然國民黨的版本跟大家不太一樣但是我們現在這個尊重尊重法務部尊重我們台灣民眾黨的一個修正動議我想我們會提出相關的一個修正意見以上謝謝"},{"start":10419.805,"end":10439.779,"text":"謝謝林思明委員接下來柯建銘委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備院長各位委員同仁我想現在討論起來大致應該會齊心一致因為國民黨本來版本已經改期所以是沒有錯但是有死刑無期徒刑一時以上"},{"start":10442.638,"end":10458.012,"text":"對,你現在是講長這樣嘛那我們等一下啦現在在做的上有民進黨的版本和民進黨版本以及國民黨版本那既然剛才余思敏講說大家可以來調整那就是說"},{"start":10459.493,"end":10478.85,"text":"總則沒有改年金改分折,而且這樣屬於共識誌實,所以這樣刑律有死刑是不對的那我希望就是說,大家只要齊一一致的共同提案就好了,好不好共同提案,這樣比較快"},{"start":10481.348,"end":10499.763,"text":"謝謝柯建民總召接下來請沈伯陽委員發言許巧欣委員請準備好我簡短發言就好了因為我剛剛結論的時候就有說可以從這個民眾黨黨團還有後來我們提的這一個版本來做修正但我覺得剛剛黃國昌委員可能有點誤會我的意思就是說我們都知道112有但書但是112有但書的狀況之下導致"},{"start":10500.203,"end":10519.66,"text":"二八六跟單純的今天傷害去加重的刑度其實不合的所以我們才會認為說要問法務部你如果用下面這個加重跟你用第一項第二項重新調整刑度是不是請法務部來說明看看那當然我還是覺得說真的因為凌虐跟傷害的定義它是有差距的"},{"start":10520.02,"end":10530.075,"text":"所以在這個狀況之下還可以接受286現在的法定型的刑度所以我們願意用未滿7歲這樣的一個方式所以補充說明一下因為剛剛這個顯然好像有點誤會"},{"start":10534.083,"end":10556.194,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言在剩下兩位委員發言之後我必須要喊休息五分鐘大家溝通那也跟大家報告一下好我們就暫時截止接下來請徐巧欣委員發言好謝謝院長那我想呢現在大家看起來就不管是國民黨民眾黨跟民進黨都有一個在修法上面比較多的共識"},{"start":10557.134,"end":10581.472,"text":"但是我同時也要主張一下在原本的國民黨團的修正動議裡面提到包含是死刑跟無期徒刑以及十年以上有期徒刑這個部分當初會提出來那是因應民眾的期待也就是說對於我們在立法技術而言上面來說我們用所謂的加重二分之一期刑隊這是一個法律上的文字但是我們在民間聽到的聲音他們當然也"},{"start":10583.473,"end":10610.107,"text":"大多數的民眾是認為如果有凌虐兒童致死的話那為什麼不把他判死刑呢所以我想雖然說在這一次的立法上面我們國民黨民進黨民眾黨最後可能可以達到一個共識叫做加重其刑至二分之一這是一個修法技術但對一般普羅大眾而言大家的期待是關於死刑無期徒刑而且是重罰這一點呢我想我們今天還是要強力的表述謝謝"},{"start":10611.657,"end":10636.833,"text":"謝謝徐曉英委員接下來請林月警委發言108年的時候在修《兒燒權法》的時候就也並同修286那我覺得真的要去考慮當時實際上國民黨就有提出來死刑可是那時候為什麼沒有因為修法有時候一刀兩刃也要去兼顧到另外一方的需求因為過去不管是拱重案或者是湯姆朗案案他們都是因為"},{"start":10638.995,"end":10666.495,"text":"認為說今天我殺了孩子之後政府會判我死刑所以我就去對孩子動了手可能要去考慮那後來一百零八年修正之後的確後來事實上是有讓我們的刑度調高之後的確有果效的時候不要再去用死刑因為死刑可能又造成孩子的權益事實上受到更大的傷害這一併都要去考慮不是單一面的只考慮到說當傷害孩子的時候我們用重刑"},{"start":10666.935,"end":10690.204,"text":"可是有沒有引發另外一個更大的傷害這一邊要考量所以我還是期待是不是我們這次是加重二分之一否則一百零八年討論的時候為什麼民團這麼反對我覺得背後有它的原因所在以上好 我們現在休息大家直接協商之後再請廖偉祥委員發言我們現在休息五分鐘請各黨團直接溝通 謝謝"},{"start":11246.049,"end":11271.479,"text":"謝謝 各位黨團幹部請坐各位委員請坐 各位官員請坐我們現在繼續開會 要宣讀草案協商結果謝謝請坐下來苗栗的邱正軍委員請坐下來好跟各位"},{"start":11272.659,"end":11298.274,"text":"跟各位黨團幹部委員報告一下,我們現在三黨協商結果已經出爐,我們非常,我們請議事人員來宣讀一下刑法第二百八十六條第一項至第四項未修正,增訂第五項,對於未滿七歲之人犯前四項之罪者,依各該項規定加重其刑至二分之一,宣讀完畢"},{"start":11305.936,"end":11317.618,"text":"好 我們依照協商的內容我們就通過第二百八十六條修正現在我們處理第七十七條請廖偉祥委員提案委員請發言"},{"start":11320.78,"end":11346.066,"text":"各位好主席好我們當初提案是修77跟272之一那基本上概念上也跟今天主要的方向一樣因為對於這個虐童殺童對於手舞腹肌之力的孩童受到這樣的傷害這都是我們應該要予以保障和提高嚇阻行為的那因為為了有效的在這一次的會議可以盡速的讓我們的刑責嚇阻效率提高所以我們要堅持這個77跟272之一"},{"start":11349.187,"end":11368.757,"text":"那對那這個部分但是我們還是希望未來如果這個法務部在統計這個數據當然在立法基礎上體力上我們沒有要檢視這件事可是未來如果社會還是持續發生這樣的事件然後這個案量並沒有下降的話我們未來再不排除再更進一步的修研謝謝好謝謝兩位參議員的發言好感謝"},{"start":11371.718,"end":11378.02,"text":"各位黨團幹部各位委員我們就決定不予修正維持現行條文好 謝謝徵定第272條之一我們一樣不予徵定徵定第286條之一我們有蘇清泉等28位委員提案請蘇清泉委員請發言"},{"start":11406.263,"end":11416.547,"text":"第二百八十六條之一不予增訂"},{"start":11433.513,"end":11457.128,"text":"我現在協商結論跟各位黨團還有各位委員報告一下也跟各位列席的官員報告一下一 第七十七條不予修正 維持現行條文二 增訂第兩百七十二條之一及第兩百八十六條之一均不予增訂三 第兩百八十六條照協商內容通過 詳如附件好不好 謝謝大家因為今天早上我們有送286"},{"start":11463.855,"end":11481.711,"text":"還有已經送到院會了嘛,我們就測案,這樣共同,既然大家共同一樣的嘛,那我們案就測下來我們有送七條,二百六之一不予申請,以及這個二百六都有送,那就測案,這樣共同提案就好了"},{"start":11484.059,"end":11510.79,"text":"那我們就到協商協議院會那個就不處理了好謝謝柯建民總召那我們刑法修正已經好接下來是謝謝我們司法院吳秘書長也謝謝黃市長謝謝司法院跟法務部的關於謝謝我們下面接著繼續來討論警察人員人事條例修正第35條條文及增訂副表3草案等那個"},{"start":11512.626,"end":11532.953,"text":"法務部的那個次長對不起黃次長我們剛才黨團幹部都有一個共識麻煩下次朝野協商請部長來一下好不好請轉達一下鄭部長因為大家黨團幹部都希望能夠部長本人來出席好嗎請您轉達不然要向院長請假好不好不然罰寫一百遍抄寫一百遍下次我本人親自傳講好謝謝"},{"start":11613.496,"end":11619.25,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝 來各位參各位來到會的官員請趕快就坐"},{"start":11638.373,"end":11644.918,"text":"好各位列席的官員請就座各位黨團幹部各位委員請就座我們爭取時間謝謝"},{"start":11667.11,"end":11694.19,"text":"好 謝謝大家請就座跟各位黨團幹部報告 還有各位委員報告我們今天嚴商警察人員人事條例修正第35條條文及增訂副表三草案司法及法制內政兩委員會並案審查蘇清泉等委員萬美玲等委員謝榮介等委員"},{"start":11694.67,"end":11710.866,"text":"王宏威等委員﹑丁學忠等委員﹑顏寬恒等委員﹑鄭天才等委員﹑林思明等委員﹑武力華等委員﹑王宏威委員﹑游皓委員﹑張志倫委員等提案"},{"start":11711.807,"end":11738.679,"text":"審查會於一百一三年六月十三日審查完均審查情形第三十五條及徵訂附表三保留送院會處理其餘均由審查結果通過並決議院會討論前需交由黨團協商國民黨團於七月十一日召集協商由吳宗憲召集委員主持針對警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條"},{"start":11740.019,"end":11764.635,"text":"調整警察人員退休所得替代率進行協商由於有黨團代表未出席討論尚未達成共識現在先介紹今天列席的所有的閣員與官員首先我們介紹內政部劉部長熱情歡迎歡迎部長權敘部司部長歡迎警政署張署長歡迎"},{"start":11768.66,"end":11785.852,"text":"消防署的蕭署長歡迎其他關於我就不一一介紹歡迎大家我們現在請各黨團表示意見請國民黨團所提議的請劉許庭委員發言請民進黨團準備"},{"start":11787.922,"end":11816.316,"text":"謝謝主席這個我想在過去審查這個相關條例的一些答詢的過程之中大家都把話講得非常的清楚也就是說我們的警察跟消防弟兄基本上在工作的性質上跟一般的公務員顯有巨大的落差那麼在性質跟工商的比例也皆高於一般的公務員第三考量相關工作環境的嚴酷跟高風險也比較常出現所謂的為勞找退"},{"start":11816.636,"end":11817.577,"text":"本院國民黨團提出了相關的修正案"},{"start":11837.551,"end":11854.604,"text":"針對最低所得替代率、年增率以及最高所得替代率的部分提出了若干的修正當然在答詢跟這個委員會審查跟草野協商的時候並未達成共識但是我們依然主張最低的所得替代率應與調升年增率應與調升但有關最高所得替代率"},{"start":11855.104,"end":11881.499,"text":"倒是可以這個濁情來做辦理因為考量不管是社會觀感也好或者是各黨團盡量的要達成共識的角度來出發是不是能夠逐步的來做檢討跟改進我們的目標非常單純照顧基層的警消弟兄維持性愛保護原則讓他們有應有的退休的尊嚴跟待遇是我們修法的目標希望在今天的院長主持的草野協商大家能夠捐濟成見盡量的來達成共識以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":11884.761,"end":11890.667,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員的發言接下來請吳思瑤委員發言好 更正請柯建銘委員發言請台灣民眾黨準備"},{"start":11894.059,"end":11914.224,"text":"主席各位委員同仁我們這一次所有零四個法案那在這兩天裡面大家都非常理性在談所以到最後也解決不少問題關於這個警察人員人事條例我大家都知道在委會的時候大家都沒有共識"},{"start":11915.464,"end":11929.477,"text":"那禮拜一的報紙有看到侯孟愷曾經講過一句話說這個警察人員條例他們還沒有討論就不助理那自由刷血了那另外一回事"},{"start":11930.558,"end":11959.292,"text":"那我以為今天就不處理那今天要處理的話可是我還是在這裡要講幾個大家來想看到底我們今天這樣的處理是可以嗎有沒有符合公民正義從第一點來講的話所有警察圍牢我們已經給他到目前為止已經給他比一般的公務人員多了也就是說他平均稅收薪資差不多六萬一"},{"start":11960.874,"end":11979.979,"text":"五零萬平均五萬,已經比較多了。然後呢,因公三房一千萬變成兩千萬。那另外就是說,假如這樣的,要處理都做真要,而且危老,事實上,要處理警察危老。退休我也可以找,十年退休,等等。"},{"start":11980.899,"end":12007.837,"text":"相對危勞市長也很多啦比如說醫護人員危勞比如說監所的危勞 很多但是我們針對 因為那時候大家基本靈性改革的時候營銷人員發動很大的抗爭那最後法還是通過這中間就是說該處理的去處理 不能比照他要比照金人嘛那金人所得替代率是百分之九十到九十五"},{"start":12008.939,"end":12037.297,"text":"那假如警察比較驚人的話,坦白講對一般的公民心是發生很大的問題另外一點就是說,退休以後就沒有未來的問題嘛本來就已經給責任比較多了那現在要再加的時候,再加一萬多跟七萬多所以這個我在講的就是說,我們要了解假如這樣的行為加上去的時候"},{"start":12038.237,"end":12057.459,"text":"未來政府要多付三千一百一十七億這是一個很嚴重的問題政府要多付錢然後除了這個以外政府要多三千一百一十七億因為退休金要預租的部分又少了"},{"start":12058.613,"end":12077.918,"text":"這少一千零九三億另外呢這種結果會造成什麼基金支出要增加所以只一直增加然後收入會減少那當然年金提早破產這是一個這有世代爭議的問題"},{"start":12079.678,"end":12102.716,"text":"這個是年金要我們年金改革以後你現在又還改革然後整個提早破產我們對年金事態要怎麼交代對整個基金將來的提早退休這裡面又牽涉到我還是要講一下雖然講大家會覺得不高興喔我要講什麼?我要講還是回到憲法層次"},{"start":12104.096,"end":12127.135,"text":"立法院提議法案然後政府檢討支出這麼多違反這個憲法七十條違反到另外一個憲法第七條的平等原則也就是說公務員和警察的平等原則差距太大了那我們既然已經給他照顧了"},{"start":12128.576,"end":12148.825,"text":"所以這一點大家特別要想一下我認為大家都想做好人但是做好人要不能違憲違法而且失去公平原則而且讓人因體老破產世代不爭議會發生所以我還是建議大家忍心想一想這個難道要表決嗎"},{"start":12151.667,"end":12161.54,"text":"這個可以不處理 大家應該不應該處理那最後一定要表決為尊重大家忍氣想一想嘛好 請台灣民眾黨發言 請吳思瑤準備"},{"start":12165.137,"end":12187.956,"text":"沒有,我講過,有登記的,你在5時以後謝謝主席針對有關於針對警消的部分在所得替代率的部分是不是有需要重新調整的這件事情在委員會上面到後面委員會的協商的時候臺灣民眾黨我們表示的立場非常清楚我們支持年金的改革"},{"start":12188.757,"end":12214.654,"text":"我們支持年金的改革那只不過說針對警消他們實際上面在勤務上面的內容的確跟一般的公務人員不一樣這個是我覺得我們要體認的一個清楚的現實那只不過說在所得替代率上面直接把它拉到跟軍人一樣的這件事情它所會造成的財務上面的衝擊我們事實上是必須要考慮的"},{"start":12215.795,"end":12219.438,"text":"當然全序部他們現在針對直接拉到"},{"start":12222.183,"end":12248.901,"text":"90%的所得替代率的這一邊上次在委員會討論的協商的時候討論出來是它會使得基金用慶的年度提前兩年完成那我那個時候在委員會協商的時候啊我事實上曾經提出就麻煩全序部啊就是功課做足一點什麼叫功課做足一點就是說你試算的時候不要只有試算95%跟90%兩個所得的替代率因為這段時間"},{"start":12250.382,"end":12277.512,"text":"我們聆聽了社會各階層非常多的聲音我們可以很清楚而且負責任的跟大家講臺灣這個社會對於警消同仁的支持甚至他們所提出來的訴求支持度是非常高的支持度是非常高的但是我們也認為在進行這項調整的時候可能不太適合淪於沒有一個實際數字的喊價"},{"start":12279.733,"end":12303.351,"text":"所以我們會希望等到選舉部把各種不同的所得替代率它的試算的結果出來了以後我們再來做一個平衡的、審慎的考慮那所以我是不是可以見請說我們是不是真的有必要急著今天一定要處理我們是不是可以更負責任的"},{"start":12303.931,"end":12328.344,"text":"等到選區部把其他的所得地貸率試算對於基金所會產生的衝擊數字出來了以後再來做一個比較審慎的考慮跟評估但是在整個大的方向上面加強提升對於我們警消同仁保障的這個方向臺灣民眾黨黨團是支持的好 謝謝"},{"start":12330.297,"end":12355.974,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黃總召發言吳思瑤跟洪孟凱兩位委員發言完畢之後就請全序部司部長您表達意見好嗎好請吳思瑤委員年金改革不走回頭路這是攸關世代正義的問題所以民進黨立場為了維持年金的永續基於維持合理性公平性永續性其實對於這一個修法的提案我們的立場我們是沒有辦法來支持"},{"start":12356.926,"end":12383.319,"text":"但是剛剛也聽到民眾黨團的黃總召說他也認為要有進一步的更多思考的空間包括試算的結果那我覺得這樣的處理是可以可以可以大家可以來一起來商量也就是不急著來在院會而且是今天沒有一個精準的試算也相對欠缺充分的討論就這個重大的議案大家想看看當初在年金改革的那個過程"},{"start":12384.58,"end":12405.519,"text":"普方成立了年改的委員會討論了多久然後到立法院從各個委員會的審查歷經非常長的討論然後大家彙聚了相對的共識我知道被改革方當然還是有他的不滿的意見可是他是經過充分的討論來落實了年金改革的目標那現在"},{"start":12408.123,"end":12435.616,"text":"要把它在針對警消的部分再改回來再提高它的所得替代率就當然也應當要慎思所以以這一屆期這個警察人員人事條例在司法法治委員會之討論過一次那黨團協商也等於就是很快就pass過去我覺得這個都應當從長計議那回到這個議案的這個主要的論述我想還是要再做說明"},{"start":12437.15,"end":12455.964,"text":"我們警消人員跟其他公務人員都是適用同一套的退府基金的制度他的繳費、給付的標準都是一樣的所以他的繳費義務跟給付的權利也是對等的這確實就是要維護我們憲法平等權的原則公平對待所有的"},{"start":12457.445,"end":12480.419,"text":"這個基金繳費的所有人員這個核心平等的原則絕對不能來漢格所以說如果針對警消的部分來調整了在公平性上是有問題在平等性上是有問題第二點呢我們當然都非常的體恤也都肯認警消人員平常工作的特殊的狀況也付出相當大的辛勞但是"},{"start":12481.52,"end":12509.83,"text":"持平而論政府對於警消人員的照顧他們平均的月退休所得本來就高於非警消的人員而且警消平均退休的年齡因為他危勞的特性也都低於非警消的人員所以說警消跟非警消兩類人員平均的餘命以及可支領月退休金的年限其實差異是不大的"},{"start":12510.765,"end":12532.506,"text":"如果說要提高就單獨提高警消人員的退休所得替代率那你會拉大警消跟非警消的公務人員兩者之間退休所得的差距而警消人員並不會因此而增加他基金的繳費我就說這樣就會造成不公平不公平"},{"start":12533.667,"end":12548.204,"text":"然後呢單獨提高了警消人員退休所的替代率就財務的部分對於年金的負擔財政的壓力剛剛我們也提過我這裡可以再精簡的歸納一下如果精算"},{"start":12549.786,"end":12577.728,"text":"採行現在五十年的原則合計對政府及基金財政支出的負擔會是3117億再加上668億這樣算起來是3785億這個是增加支出而且會短少挹注給年金的那個破短少挹注了1093億所以我們的退府基金"},{"start":12578.874,"end":12595.852,"text":"在年改之後我們原本期待可以增加一個世代但是它會提早兩年來用盡那這對於所有的退休人員的權益都受到傷害更重要的是對現在現役中的"},{"start":12596.332,"end":12611.659,"text":"警消的工作人員是非常不公平這是世代正義的問題我們固然要照顧退休的警消但是對於現役警消人員的權益絕對不能因此而犧牲葬送"},{"start":12612.719,"end":12637.836,"text":"那最後一點我想就是他會有其他人員的原比的效應就今天一旦單獨提高了警消的所得替代率其他類的公務人員、教育人員等等、醫療人員等等都可能大家認為要援引來比照所以這樣開了一個門、開了一個破口讓當初的年金改革形同又有另外一個缺口可以"},{"start":12638.656,"end":12652.672,"text":"來做整個制度的一個癱瘓或是一個制度的可能因此而崩解我想這都不是我們這一屆立法委員大家願意面對更是我們沒有辦法負責的事情"},{"start":12653.393,"end":12676.965,"text":"所以民進黨團的立場真的是要懇請大家也感謝民眾黨認為這個議案不應當在今天就來處理年輕改革不能走回頭路世代正義不能開倒車我們真的要懇請我們提案的國民黨團這不只三思而後行這是百思而後行萬思而後行年改"},{"start":12677.813,"end":12704.919,"text":"不走回頭路基金的永續我們都有責任拜託就剩下國民黨團的意見了謝謝謝謝吳思堯委員發言接下來請洪孟凱委員發言全序部請準備好謝謝院長院長剛剛本期被提到所以說我一定要做一個正式的回應我在回應媒體的時候媒體的詢問是說在這個會期以前我們總共的處理的事案件到底有多少"},{"start":12705.759,"end":12733.986,"text":"當時我們還沒有確定因為那是上個禮拜的事情還沒有確定說我們到底是有幾案我只能講是說國民黨團那時候很負責任的把我們這一次所有的提案以及交由黨團協商或者是說已經一個月的時間的案子都先列出來可是我有一個但書是說因為在這個會期裡面我們也都尊重院長的協商權也因此在院長還沒有協商之前的議案如果"},{"start":12735.319,"end":12758.895,"text":"因為院長還沒有協商之前大家還沒有取得一個共識也因此我們不會貿然的提起議事 院會來做後續的處理所以在七月十六以前確實這一條條文沒有經過院長的協商但是今天也看到我們展現了這樣的一個高速的效率也因此今天協商如果說沒有辦法取得 能夠取得共識當然最好"},{"start":12759.255,"end":12775.757,"text":"如果沒有辦法取得共識的話這本來就在我們的討論事項第五十一案裡面本來就可以進行我們相關的一個處理所以並沒有講說我們國民黨團沒有要處理這一點我想所有人大家都非常明白了解我們的議事規則所以"},{"start":12777.339,"end":12799.375,"text":"並不需要扣各自黨團的帽子這我們也講非常清楚國民黨團的立場自始至終我們都希望能夠追求一個更公平的原則並且能夠感謝過去到現在我們對於國家付出的警消等相關的公務體系的人員包括海巡包括相關的部分好"},{"start":12800.618,"end":12823.301,"text":"這第一個我們先續名第二我們當然追求公平我們當然追求年金永續我們當然追求大家都要有一個更持平的部分那如果說真的是這樣的話那一國就不應該有兩制嗎那為什麼討論到軍警相關的部分人事條例的時候就會有說一定要有這個相關的一個檢免但是"},{"start":12824.001,"end":12834.529,"text":"討論到更重要以及國人更關心更廣泛更全面的勞保年金的時候就是由我們的勞動部長新上任居然直接在我們的衛環委員會講是說那就撥補啊"},{"start":12836.419,"end":12864.802,"text":"剝補也是改革而前任的勞動部長那時候一直強調是說勞保年金一定要改革非改革不可如果不改革的話會破產結果沒想到過兩個月不到520新的勞動部長上任之後就講說勞保年金就是政府剝補政府補補就是改革所以未來政府可以編列一千億、兩千億的預算持續的投入勞保但是對於其他的年金卻有不同的做法"},{"start":12865.542,"end":12882.93,"text":"這不是一國兩制 什麼才是一國兩制要年金大家一律一律的大家一起來看待要不要改革當然可以討論但是不要用執政黨手握權力卻是對於不同族群不同的年金做不同的對待我覺得這不是一個公平的做法第三"},{"start":12884.366,"end":12908.065,"text":"等一下我想我們很理性務實在這邊討論所以說我也要求說權敘部是不是針對之前我想委員會裡面也都討論很多有一些年金的試算的部分也可以提出相關對應的版本還有我們過去在委員會裡面也有提到了就是說到底現在警政署、消防署、內政部你們的態度是什麼"},{"start":12908.956,"end":12936.857,"text":"我覺得有必要還是要求在院長的協商下再一次請警政署、消防署跟內政部說明一下你們的立場是要為我們過去到現在付出打拼的所有警消弟兄以及相關的公務體系的弟兄來爭取一個合理的待遇還是說就是要放任讓這樣子有一國兩制的一個制度產生透過"},{"start":12939.273,"end":12960.141,"text":"協商的直播全國國人大家關心這個議題的都在看我要拜託院長能夠等一下讓內政部警政署消防署能夠表達你們的意見簡單扼要讓國人知道謝謝好接下來請全序部發言完畢之後"},{"start":12961.935,"end":12981.928,"text":"請內政部準備發言然後警政署、消防署兩位署長也請簡短二要表達立場請謝謝院長還有大院的各位委員很謝謝大院有這個機會讓全區部在這裡就這個議案做進一步再一次說明那我想剛剛這個"},{"start":12984.125,"end":13007.173,"text":"黃國昌總召有提到就是說在協商的時候確實一路講說應該用數據科學來談這個問題那所以上禮拜四做這個協商的時候他還說我們是不是要回去再做一些不同的試算的一個試算確實我們因為禮拜四我們禮拜五就找精算一直來談這個事情那事實上部裡面現在也開始在繼續進行這個可能不同這個"},{"start":13009.854,"end":13033.333,"text":"替代力上限的一個試算不過我想黃委員知道也同意說這需要時間不過我們一定會負責任的把一些數據算出來提供給這個大院的委員做參考我想這是一個這個案子必須要建立在很多事實的基礎上來供大院來做討論可能是比較好的一個方式那全區部呢對這個案子的目前的看法我們是真的"},{"start":13033.813,"end":13053.371,"text":"建議這個案子不要通過我想很少這個部長這麼勇敢的這樣在大院裡面這樣處理那我要講我的理由因為全區部作為主管我們全國公務人員基金的一個主管機關那大家要理解談的公務人員的退伏基金一向就是所有的公務人員跟警校一起參與"},{"start":13054.67,"end":13082.552,"text":"那軍人是另外一個基金那所以原來永遠的一個方式就是這個基金如果要永續啊核心的原則就是所有人用同樣的標準繳費所有人用同樣的標準領得這個給付然後因為年改的關係呢所有人也同樣用同樣的方式做十年的所得替代率的一個演進那所以在這個基礎下因為大家的權利義務相當所以如果任何有一個方單獨把它提高"},{"start":13083.473,"end":13108.129,"text":"那這個其實是破壞了整個核心的一個最基本的平等對待的原則那這是全區部必須再一次不斷的說明就是這個對基金的運作呢其實它嚴肅的衝擊了平等對待基金裡面所有公務同仁的一個原則所以我想這是我第一點要說明那第二點說明我知道警消同仁其實國人都很支持政府也很支持"},{"start":13108.729,"end":13134.762,"text":"那剩下就是說那我們對警消同仁照顧到底是應該以因為他有一些危險危老的特性那是以限制這部分應該多做還是要用退休金的方式去做一個解方那這個部分呢其實從基金的角度和全部的角度來講我知道內政部部長等一些問題在過去的任內裡面其實政府對於警消同仁的限制同仁待遇"},{"start":13135.482,"end":13143.48,"text":"還有相關的一些議題．全區部做的是．一些危老．一些配套做．都有在努力那我跟各位報告一件事情怎麼樣增進"},{"start":13145.492,"end":13170.795,"text":"警消同仁的﹐譬如像他大域﹐或者工作條件﹐或者工作人力這一部分政府持續在做我105年到111年在行政院擔任人事長的任內其實對警消同仁我同時至少做了兩件事情目前合爭的剩下4200位警消警察同仁其實就在我任內做了一個事情還有任內裡面也做了我們對基層的員警"},{"start":13172.165,"end":13194.676,"text":"本來年功奉旨到五百點．現在提到五百二十五點．也都是那時候做．所以其實整個政府．努力在照顧這些事情．那因為危老的特性．我們的．他待遇會比一般公務人員高．那因為一般．現職待遇比一般公務人員高．所以他退休的時候根據現行的制度算出來．他一定就是比公務人員高．所以現行的制度下．其實我們都不改．"},{"start":13195.543,"end":13221.735,"text":"他每個月領的錢就是比公務人員高那每個月領的錢會是多高以113年大概是警察人員是大概一百五萬四左右但是後面還會做一點再說調整那我們講的就是說類似這個數字我都必須要清楚的告訴國人他有這樣一個狀況那如果修法以後那那個數字當然因為他是90%不是到95%他的一個月退休金就"},{"start":13222.555,"end":13246.439,"text":"增加更高可是公務人員不會啊所以那個差距就會越拉越大那我覺得大家同樣繳同樣的錢然後退休的時候結果領的不一樣這個不是只有對限制同仁的警察人員跟消防跟非警察人員的不平是已經退休的警察人員跟已經退休的公務人員同樣會有這個問題會存在所以我必須很坦白的清楚的這樣一個一個做這樣一個說明那當然剛剛也有一些"},{"start":13251.361,"end":13274.39,"text":"執政委員也都提到我們也做了試算至少這一次的試算是以90%為上限或95%就是基金至少會提早兩年用盡那個財務我們都是用50年來估算50年來估算這是因為所有的基金按法律都這樣50年做精算所以我們負責任用50年來估算那個數字都是50年會多這些錢那基金會提早用盡兩年那這議題就是說這樣一個狀況它對財務永續"},{"start":13279.392,"end":13307.723,"text":"是沒有幫忙的然後如果說只單獨通過警察結果非警察人員沒有通過那一定原因比照我也跟各位報告說我們危老的人不是只有警察沒有醫護人員有其他還有其他人他們也不會因此這樣去做調整所以這個姿勢其實是很抵擋那如果大家都要比照到90%那我想我們之前做的年輕改革其實就就等於是"},{"start":13308.888,"end":13334.486,"text":"就我們當初做的年金改革就是讓整個年金永續的年限至少延後二十五年到三十年那如果這個案子通過再加上後面的原因比照我們可能呢就整個用錢的年薪呢會大幅的往前那個對限制所有公務同仁來講是很不公平的所以我想我是特別特別要提跟各位報告這樣一個事情那當然呢立法的技術上呢我另外提醒兩點就是說"},{"start":13336.387,"end":13362.662,"text":"我在提案裡面有看到就是說它涉及到有些提案是涉及到只限警消人員有些又把範圍擴大所以這個是一個立法技術可能等下在討論的時候也需要去注意另外一個在立法的技術上也提到說已經退休的人未來他的退休金的調整就要跟限制人員完全同步跟同幅度那這跟我們現在制度又完全不一樣那如果按照這個路走下去又是另外一個"},{"start":13364.157,"end":13378.331,"text":"警消人員跟非警消人員之間的一個不平等的一個狀況這個我想作為全區部委員的義務在這裡也把它做一個說明那整體來講我自己比較真的跟大院建議說照顧警消人員應該是透過對現職同仁的"},{"start":13381.534,"end":13404.669,"text":"各式各樣的執勤工作環境工作條件這邊的努力給他充實改善至於退休因為他是在一個基金下面我必須照顧平等原則更何況我們的退休金隨著調薪因為每年調薪退休金自然就會有一些調整當然退休人員他的調薪的方式跟限制人不一樣但是他會調整所以也有一定的這個"},{"start":13406.071,"end":13416.548,"text":"這個月退休金的一個金額達到一定的一個數額應該也足以照顧個人在退休事後的一個生活所以我想藉著這個機會非常謝謝這個大院有這個機會讓我做一個說明 謝謝"},{"start":13419.29,"end":13439.089,"text":"謝謝四部長的說明接下來請內政部劉部長跟兩位署長說明之後就是莊瑞雄委員發言請劉部長好謝謝院長謝謝各位委員對於有關警察人員的這個關心尤其我們有12位委員提案提到有關於35條第一項第四款等等的這個修正案我想我分兩個部分跟大家報告"},{"start":13441.751,"end":13456.101,"text":"其實以內政部來講我們現在最重要的事情就是先保障跟保護限職的警消還有包括空勤等等還有移民這些有關警察人員資格他們現在有的福利跟待遇跟條件"},{"start":13457.122,"end":13482.162,"text":"那剛剛泉旭部長已經跟大家報告過從一百零五年到現在我跟大家補充說明一下現在限制的警察人員的各項待遇跟福利措施一共有十五項包括他的公益信託基金或是包括這個執勤的獎金或是我們在前上個月的時候才剛剛通過的有關於這個深夜圍牢性勤務津貼知己等一共有十五項"},{"start":13482.862,"end":13498.918,"text":"那這些包括加班等等這些大概就是針對現有的現職的警察人員的各項待遇跟福利措施先跟大家做一個簡單的說明那至於在警察人員條例裡面第35條的條文修正草案裡面所明定出來的是針對退休"},{"start":13500.88,"end":13518.383,"text":"當然退休警察警消人員的範圍剛剛全序部已經跟大家報告過有些委員以警消海巡為主有些委員又加進去包括空勤或者是航空測量等機關人員所以在適用的對象上面已經有所不同至於說對於"},{"start":13519.184,"end":13545.803,"text":"警消人員所得替代率的部分第一個我們認為在平等待遇跟世代正義上面很多委員已經發表過他們的說法我就不再追序但是我所了解的部分就是有關於退休的警消人員的部分的話他所明定的職長不是只有內政部而已包括權序部還有包括像行政院的人事行政總處、主計總處、公務人員的退府基金"},{"start":13546.383,"end":13562.978,"text":"甚至各個地方政府他們也必須要付起有關於退休員警或是警消人員的退休金的給付之類的所以它的影響層面相當的廣除了說原來的退休警消人員之外會不會有退休的公教人員也會引起不同的影響"},{"start":13564.119,"end":13578.815,"text":"也就是說我們要取得它的協調跟共識到目前為止可能還有一大步有待於我們去努力那再來就是說如果按照有一些委員所提案的部分甚至說所謂的退休的這個部分的所得替代率"},{"start":13579.835,"end":13603.812,"text":"達到百分之九十或九十五趴的時候目前我們預計到的現象會第一個限職的警消人員趕快提退休那會造成現在警消人員會有空洞化也就是說資深的有經驗的他們的警員或是我們警消人員很快就要退休的時候下面的人員能不能補得上那各位委員其實非常關心在歷次內政委員會質詢的時候"},{"start":13606.795,"end":13619.888,"text":"現在的警察人員或消防人員是不是要缺額逮捕雖然我們很快就補上去但是不管是因為少子化的現象或者是因為其他的有更好的工作機會所以補的速度不弱"},{"start":13620.809,"end":13640.36,"text":"各位所預期那麼高所以我們在橫憑現在的整個狀況之下還是主張是不是跟全序部的想法一樣主張可以從長計議當然照顧現職人員是我們內政部重要的重點照顧退休的警消人員也是我們應該努力的方向以上 謝謝"},{"start":13641.581,"end":13661.862,"text":"好謝謝副部長的說明接下來請警政署張署長請表達意見副院長大會的委員大家好那首先非常感謝各位人對警察辛勞的這個照顧這一些提案的照顧那站在警視組的立場上剛剛部長有講了不管是限制了同仁"},{"start":13662.563,"end":13680.728,"text":"我們也都非常這個政府非常穩積的來提供很多的這些的照顧的方案我站在警署立場也非常感謝那同時對於退休的同仁我們有也是有必要做必要一些照顧那我想站在警署立場因為這個的主管機關是在全區部我們會協同"},{"start":13683.208,"end":13694.819,"text":"來全進部來積極來做一個積極協調辦理包括這個有關首都西道利試算完之後的結果是怎麼樣我們協同這個全進部的相關的機關來協調來積極來處理這件事情就以上的報告"},{"start":13698.92,"end":13714.75,"text":"請消防署消署長完好請院長各位委員大家好很感謝院長跟各位委員對消防體系消防人員的支持跟照顧我想過去一段時間稱呼兩位部長所提到的對消防人員的一個支持跟照顧跟福利待遇有大幅的提升"},{"start":13715.41,"end":13737.959,"text":"那最近也針對於未來的消防建設也提出二三項的建設總共會建設達到兩百三十億的經費我想對於消防體系的人員跟工作的體系的素質跟能量的提升會有很大的幫助我想消防體系這個會在秉持這個原則繼續打拚努力當然對於退休人員我們同樣的一個重視那我們會協同我們檢證署跟"},{"start":13742.741,"end":13759.118,"text":"內政部跟我們群衆部的意見共同來打拼努力謝謝院長跟國委員謝謝接下來請莊瑞銓委員發言謝謝院長和各位協商代表我剛聽了警政署長跟消防署長兩位署長就是警消界的大家長的講解我倒覺得你們算有良心"},{"start":13763.763,"end":13765.606,"text":"我在這十幾年來我們在內政委員會裡面幾乎每一次去談的就是我們警消這些危險工作對他們怎麼樣去做一個照顧那其實"},{"start":13776.072,"end":13802.996,"text":"不分黨派對我們警察跟我們下班人員我們其實大家都很盡心盡力但是今天這個案子我倒會覺得說大家應該再冷靜一下我舉個例就好了你像譬如說那個年功奉的部分我們就調了我們現在基層的警消你說六指等你現在領的是已經是八指等"},{"start":13804.295,"end":13826.665,"text":"但約好大家都喜歡啊 給你更好的照顧我們都願意啊但是呢 是不是像剛 呃 前居部長這邊剛所講的 再去試算一下人家的校方署長跟警政署長他們也認為說是應該再來做一個試算啊否則大家都 大家對這個整個退幅你一下子又把它拉回到所得替代率又超過90%"},{"start":13828.706,"end":13855.594,"text":"任何的一個政黨在執政都會碰到這樣的一個問題在台灣沒有一個政黨在一個政黨可以執政一百年沒有這樣的一個政黨所以這個是一個非常嚴肅的問題我們這個社會我們要感謝人太多警察要不要感謝當然要感謝消防人員要不要感謝當然要感謝你說海巡人員要不要感謝都要感謝所有的在為這個國家付出的我們全部都要感謝基金就像一桶水一樣"},{"start":13856.474,"end":13872.705,"text":"你要一直給他留留留你要其他的部分你怎麼放進去怎麼樣再來留進去然後對其他的人會不會有相對剝奪感如果說這一些危險工作的警察跟消防人員你那個畢竟你會覺得說我我跟基法公務人員一樣你要付錢但是我的行為比你更危險這樣就沒道理可是問題是我們把年功分又調高我們讓基層讓他在六十等的人領到八十等現在的錢"},{"start":13885.313,"end":13905.251,"text":"那又要從這個退休這個部分拉高所得替代率我們前面在做一個提升的我們一般都在講什麼都在講說因為退服那個所得替代率年金改革有稍微有降低他的工作是很危險的所以我們去把它做提高"},{"start":13906.032,"end":13906.372,"text":"阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿 阿"},{"start":13922.932,"end":13948.62,"text":"謝謝專委選委員那跟各位黨團幹部報告接下來還有三位委員發言之後我就要喊休息五分鐘大家協商那委員這邊現在還有傅坤祺委員、劉許廷委員、鍾嘉斌委員跟柯建民委員我們就這樣因為這樣一直發言現在我總是要做結論大家還是要如果能夠達成共識最好不能達成的話就要送院會所以等一下必須要喊一個休息時間請大家來協商接下來這幾位委員發言好不好請"},{"start":13951.105,"end":13952.876,"text":"請簡短、扼要、重複的就不用再說了。請復會及委員。謝謝。"},{"start":13956.681,"end":13983.717,"text":"謝謝主席您叫我們簡短慰藥我想特別要再強調一次不管是軍人還是我們警察還是我們消防甚至海巡因為現在執政政府也要求警察要做好第二陸軍的準備事實上我們看到萬安演習照理講是一個準戰爭狀態結果演習的全部是警察"},{"start":13984.913,"end":14011.251,"text":"包括現在我們包山包海幾乎所有的工作保家衛民是軍人但是除暴安良是警察其實他們的工作都一樣越是我們的假日反而都是警察最忙碌的時候還要指揮交通還要肅竊還要除暴還有各方面的社會治安安寧等等甚至晚上的噪音都要由警察來處理"},{"start":14012.8,"end":14041.844,"text":"什麼鞭炮啊 什麼東西啊所以我想今天警察同仁我們剛剛聽到警政署跟消防署的講我覺得還有部長講 我也蠻遺憾的啦他說對現職的警察要怎麼樣改善他們的環境現在我們現今的社會跟古早的社會就已經退休了這批人那時候物質更缺乏 更艱困的年代這些警察同仁如果還心都走過來已經退休了"},{"start":14042.725,"end":14069.472,"text":"那對一個已經為國家奉獻一生的人我們都沒有辦法好好照顧他那限職的人當然會喊心那再一次要強調如果我們所得替代率修正以後限職的警察會趕著要退休這是國家該承擔的責任欸應該是要對國家要有信心才對嘛 對不對執政者要有信心嘛能夠把整個國家照顧好嘛"},{"start":14070.031,"end":14071.332,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來請劉許庭委員發言 鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":14092.246,"end":14106.065,"text":"謝謝主席這幾點立場還是要做簡單扼要的說明第一個剛剛有人講年輕改革不要開倒車當然可以這樣主張但是難道當初的粗暴通過沒有含了軍公教的心嗎難道沒有應該有若干"},{"start":14106.986,"end":14121.885,"text":"有欠考慮之處應該重新檢討嗎我想包含年改法案當初通過的時候都有講說這應該要視財務的狀況重新來做檢討那我也要提醒就是說如果我們的退休制度不夠優厚的話它其實是會影響軍公教部分人才的增補這第一個"},{"start":14122.586,"end":14148.579,"text":"第二我希望政府不要帶頭當慣老闆當我們的勞動部長已經講了撥補也是改革的時候尤其軍公教的老闆就是政府本來用同樣的邏輯跟同樣的方式合理的在財政方面提出挹注也是幫基金開源的一種方式第三我要講立足點的平等才是真平等剛剛我們總長講得非常清楚剛剛我們除了第一段第一輪發言有講了之外協情警消大量協情是跟一般公務人員最大的差別"},{"start":14149.079,"end":14177.307,"text":"所以不應該用齊頭四平等的原則跟邏輯來處理這件事情那再來我們還是要講點東西我看了全序部給的報告這其實跟當初在委員會審查這些數字基本上都是一樣的嘛其實都是一樣的可是其實當初在委員會審查的時候大家就希望說全序部針對不同的版本不同的數字提出更完善詳實的做法那我不反對這個剛剛民眾黨黨團的意見說我們多做一點射算之後再來審慎的處理我個人認為是OK的那我就希望全序部提供一些數據"},{"start":14177.827,"end":14195.781,"text":"比如說我們現在修法的版本最低替代率百分之四十五年增百分之二最高替代率百分之九十這個數字在這邊可是難道沒有其他排列組合的方式嗎我們如果最低替代率百分之五十年增一點七五呢我們如果最低替代率百分之五十五但年增一點五呢我們的最高替代率如果降到百分之八十五或八十呢"},{"start":14196.201,"end":14209.752,"text":"我希望全區部針對這些排列組合做個射算45%、50%、55%三個版本的最低替代率年增率1.5%、1.75%跟2%的三個年增的版本跟最高替代率75%、80%、85%、90%"},{"start":14212.242,"end":14239.91,"text":"來做一下來做一下計算如果我們今天決定說不要在今天就處理這件事的話那好歹我們做設算做版本的考量的時候那我們就要更多的數字的版本來做來做設算但是我最希望全序部可以如實的提供這些的資料作為大家未來再討論的一個參考但是我還是要講即便是百分之四十五百分之二百分之九十對於財務的影響也沒有大家想像中的那麼大你講一千多億幾千多億是用五十年的基準來計算如果"},{"start":14241.011,"end":14255.708,"text":"這個多撥補一千億是五十年那平均一年才兩億多啊何況我們現在處理勞保的部分一年就是一千多億啊這難道沒有有失橫貧跟比例原則嗎我覺得這些數字跟這些理路大家是值得再深思沒有錯希望全區部提供足夠的資料作為後續討論的參考以上謝謝"},{"start":14259.013,"end":14286.876,"text":"謝謝謝謝牛許廷委員發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言請謝謝主席剛剛聽到牛委員在提到未來也不排除考慮請全市府提出更完整的設算之後我們再來處理這個嚴肅的年金議題那跟剛剛民眾黨的黃總召所提到的我想方向是一致的但是還是要回應到我們的副總召所提到的當我們談軍公教的時候當我們談軍公教退府的時候我想我們毫無例外的"},{"start":14287.336,"end":14302.495,"text":"我們對於穿著制服的軍人警察消防甚至海巡我們了解到他們現職在工作當中他們的可能的風險可能的付出都遠超過其他的公教人員因此呢我們必須對於警"},{"start":14304.817,"end":14324.562,"text":"消、海巡等這些同樣性質的公務員．給予他權益上更多的保障．我想這是毫無疑問的．但是我們如果從年金的角度來出發．我們要思考到．在退休後的警消．他跟公務人員和軍人是差異．哪一個比較接近．哪一個比較大．"},{"start":14325.442,"end":14341.202,"text":"我舉例來講當我們講軍警票的時候我小時候有軍警票軍跟警的限職人員是享受到軍警票的優待當年是因為軍警的待遇較差所以社會上業者是同意在這樣的事業上給予軍警票的優惠"},{"start":14341.883,"end":14361.396,"text":"但是現階段已經沒有軍警票因為待遇都提高了反倒是不分是軍警消公務員65歲或者60歲退休之後65歲都可以乘坐敬老票所以說明了說軍警他們在在職期間的風險跟條件是相當所以我們要提議他"},{"start":14361.836,"end":14387.919,"text":"提高待遇的優待或保障．這是應該責成是內政部去做．但在退休這個撫恤．軍人跟警消不同．是用一個退撫基金．軍人的退撫基金當中．軍人所提撥的．所繳納的義務跟權利是一致的．但是警或消．他們是結合在公務人員的退撫基金當中．他們跟其他的公務員所想的權利．跟義務是一致的．"},{"start":14388.439,"end":14405.316,"text":"那儘管在限職的年之上．他們的退休年齡比一般公教人員早個五年．那可是他們的限職的待遇．以限職的月薪來講．大概以警政事階跟建任六職人來比．大概是多了大概一萬六左右．那這意味著什麼．"},{"start":14405.856,"end":14432.601,"text":"因為這在退休後的權益跟待遇呢他們在限職的時候警消人員是繳的因為他月薪較高他貢獻的是稍微多一點但是論其他退休的年資是相當於其他的公務人員早退休可能早個五年所以他的貢獻時間是較短那再以平均餘命來算目前退休的警消人員他們平均餘命跟國人是沒有差別的"},{"start":14433.061,"end":14449.406,"text":"那以他們的退休的死亡年齡來看也是跟國人差異不大換言之他們在退休之後可以享受到這樣的退伍基金的照顧的年限甚至還因為早退休比其他公務人員多享受一些時間因此從整個年金永續經營的立場來講我們認為對於警消人員的肯定應該是在限職期間的待遇跟各種安全的保障去提升應該責成內政部跟海巡相關部會去要求"},{"start":14461.829,"end":14487.783,"text":"但是呢再提到年金的部分那麼警消部分跟其他公務人員共享同一個退伍基金應該至於對於不分各種的類型的公務人員包括警消在內應該一視同仁給予均等的退休待遇這樣才是一個比較好的所以我們還是希望說未來呢我們對警消的肯定跟尊重和強化應該以債值為優先但是對於年金的部分"},{"start":14488.183,"end":14507.934,"text":"可能還是呼應剛剛黃總召跟劉委員的意思,我們可以重嘗記憶,以上謝謝鍾嘉斌委員接下來我們請柯建民總召發言之後就會休息五分鐘,大家掌握最後黃總召院長、各位委員同仁我們希望這個廢棄這個最後一個案子是在一個有理性討論的問題下來完成"},{"start":14510.641,"end":14533.907,"text":"我不想看到就是說大家來火車對撞再來釋憲再來互議因為這個道理很清楚嘛我們來講一個就是說剛剛洪本凱委員講的說我們在反改革要搞一國兩制事實上洪本凱你才是在反改革年輕改革已經改完了嘛你現在重新再來搞重新再搞一次"},{"start":14535.067,"end":14552.357,"text":"那時候聯席改革大臣花了多少時間精力還有全國聯改會議等等對於警消、圍牢警消給他多一點圍牢的待遇那時候都已經出於了所以我們今天不要用那個口號是誰在反改革自己所謂一國兩制當然是"},{"start":14554.298,"end":14582.55,"text":"當然是你們現在在搞一五兩四,怎麼會變成我們在搞一五兩四呢?剛才已經講很清楚,金人是一個系統,公務員是一個系統,警消當然包括公務員員裡面。立法在公務員員系統要覆蓋兩個制度,當然是搞一五兩四嘛。那對於剛剛胡文綺委員所談的,因為剛才劉思芳部長講得很有道理嘛。現在行政要好,退休金額要好,現在再來更好。"},{"start":14583.516,"end":14599.989,"text":"大家要搶退嘛,因為我都要去追,搞不好差不多大家都要搶退了嘛那這請問結果是哪?是我們警察那些從哪裡去補充?並不是說所謂的副運氣委員說這回到信心的問題,這是現實的問題"},{"start":14603.919,"end":14630.964,"text":"所以今天要講的就是說有一個觀念啦就是說你經驗的錢阿沒得出阿到底想不出?一定政府出了這很簡單嘛這個道理真的很簡單嘛那已經給對於對於警察人員他本來在當限制的時候我們已經給他都提好十年能夠退休提好十年能夠拿到要退休要退休"},{"start":14632,"end":14648.045,"text":"所以剛才包括情緒部部長以及內政部長大家講的很一樣我們對於限制的人我們看有什麼方法再給他多增加五百倍五百二等等這才是正辦最後回到核心事項"},{"start":14650.121,"end":14669.392,"text":"這個還是違反到憲法七十條以及憲法第七條拼的原則乃至於同時違反到財政紀議法我不希望他再來做最後衝突啦應該可以好好冷靜的考慮今天黃昌委員也談到 劉慶英委員也談到我希望大家兩獎學兩獎 我想看好不好小劉我幫你支持"},{"start":14674.591,"end":14680.744,"text":"那我們現在休息五分鐘請各黨團協商之後五分鐘之後就要宣布我們協商結論好不好協商結果好謝謝"},{"start":15179.735,"end":15191.702,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位委員各位官員請坐我們現在宣讀三個黨團大家初步的一個共識也請好請坐"},{"start":15193.106,"end":15217.931,"text":"三個團團大家一個共識就請全序部於一個月之內提供警察人員退休最低所得替代率年增率及最高所得替代率概算資料給各黨團以及審查會市部長您聽清楚了嗎我們來努力啦就是就這些做一個最基本的那個我們這個會期最後一個草案好請柯總召請發言當然"},{"start":15223.479,"end":15250.68,"text":"部長一定說要努力啦那我講的比較實際啦這種精算是一個非常繁雜的而且要負責的我比較建議就是說下一期開議你先送進來就可以因為我現在開始放暑假也沒有這個案子啦所以這個大家不要爭面子我們講的比較務實的嘛因為這個是一個非常算出來讓人家精算是"},{"start":15252.851,"end":15280.508,"text":"您講很粗我沒有意見你看 好 請那個洪書記長院長抱歉 如果這樣的話民進黨身為現在執政黨黨團如果要這樣講的話那我們代表國民黨黨團我們絕對沒有辦法接受第一 這一個案子其實從委員會的時候就已經討論了委員會在一樣在這一個會議是司法法治委員會那個時候我們的委員在詢問的時候就有講說概算的部分那個時候就沒有算出來幾個月了"},{"start":15282.289,"end":15304.074,"text":"兩個月、三個月現在我們在要求更詳細的數據這個是很負責任的態度本來我們剛剛是希望是七月底但是因為院長的高度所以我們接受一個月的時間請程序部好好的整理上一次是六月六號已經一個多月的時間那還有"},{"start":15305.971,"end":15329.306,"text":"現在我們在做的每一個事情其實都還是一樣我們當然支持改革但更重要的是我們要求的是公平跟合理性以及對於退休人員限職人員都要一樣的照顧這合作之有所以不用任何一個黨團來扣我們國民黨團帽子我們沒有反改革更重要的是我們希望是追求公平理性的部分這一點也是講給我們柯建民總召聽謝謝"},{"start":15330.669,"end":15352.612,"text":"楊瓊英委員請發言我們就準備要宣讀了非常感謝三黨的委員以及行政部門從6月6號到現在已經超過一個月那現在我們也大家都以負責任態度也的確我們必須要去修改以視照顧這些退休人員因為當時他們的薪資跟現在是不能比"},{"start":15353.152,"end":15379.377,"text":"如果股市經做我相信這個也是一個最重要的立足點不公平所以我們願意再給一個月的時間也鼓勵行政部門、權序部你們用心去把它拿出來因為數字出來我們才能夠再三檔再詳實由院長來召集來討論這個就是一個負責任的一個法案處理以上建言謝謝 剛才我已經念過了 市部長您請補充"},{"start":15381.181,"end":15396.372,"text":"院長我只是做一個補充沒有錯在第一次委員會審查的時候有請我們先做概算大概就以90%跟95%那我們在三個禮拜裡面先做了一個概算送給那個委員會那所以在第二次7月11號協商的時候那黃總長說這個90跟95是不是還不夠"},{"start":15401.576,"end":15421.716,"text":"所以他希望我們再做多做一些不同的組合的一個試算所以我剛剛一開始就報告說我們已經開始找精算師再往下更走那所以我的意思說我們現在希望就是說現在開始在一個月我們再做一些估算或者是這個我們會努力來做這個事情但是精算真的是比較複雜"},{"start":15424.77,"end":15433.802,"text":"既然大家話都講中明,政治人都看重不說穿,我們就尊重你們就好了好不好好謝謝大家"},{"start":15437.679,"end":15457.302,"text":"我要主席現在特別跟大家報告本日的協商到此告一段落也特別跟各位黨團幹部報告今天是本次院會最後一天我們要進行所有的法案清倉目前不需協商和已經有協商結論不需表決的在院會已經處理完畢共二十四案"},{"start":15458.243,"end":15477.734,"text":"剩下的議案還有二十七案有一些如洗錢防治、通傳匯組織法已經有協商結論要進行保留條文的表決其他的議案也有一些已經超過協商期一個月但是還沒有協商結論如果這些議案都要進行表決"},{"start":15479.011,"end":15499.332,"text":"那麼可能今天院會的時間會有所不夠所以針對討論事項所列尚未有協商結論又已經超過一個月協商期的議案哪一些法案要繼續協商哪一些今天要院會表決進行處理要建請各黨團來保持溝通"},{"start":15502.273,"end":15522.559,"text":"另外我們之前協商還有提到目前院會還有一些同意權的案子包括考試院委員同意權案等尚未處理針對同意權案的行使有新舊法適用的問題法治局前次協商會議已經跟各黨團提供相關意見以及該法結文格式"},{"start":15523.399,"end":15545.953,"text":"供各黨團參考現在針對如果依照新法的同意權實成我們議事處會有一個草稿提供各位黨團來參考至於未來同意權包括考委NCC委員在院會如何適用新舊法行使及其實成如何均有待各黨團來持續溝通我們"},{"start":15548.735,"end":15569.468,"text":"現在時間十二點五十分我們下午的院會兩點半繼續開會我們現在協商會議散會你剛才講的那個要處理哪要處理哪要講什麼來講啊我們提出了齁我們提出了我們就撤案沒有到一個月的也沒辦法齁兩點半的院會齁這重點是客制"},{"start":15577.162,"end":15580.969,"text":"柯先生怎麼 柯先生應該再採一下吧對啊 因為他還有一個要討論你現在是兩點半是吧"}]}},{"id":"16104","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16104","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609bd97b3c8d7fbd6d08bd03a951da4504b28aaa308df9ea37397ced958ad0dd9af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-07-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-07-16T08:30:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T23:51:00+08:00","duration":55246,"影片長度":"15:20:46","委員發言時間":"08:30:14 - 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d":2738.104,"text":"請召集委員吳委員中線補充說明吳補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外,台灣民眾黨黨團提案經第一會期第22次會議決定自委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案併案協商報告委員會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":2740.455,"end":2740.776,"text":"討論事項第33案"},{"start":2743.578,"end":2772.984,"text":"本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議農業部應調整公糧收購價格由每公斤26元調整至每公斤34元一案本案經第一會期第13次會議決定本案及修正動議並同交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":2779.212,"end":2787.718,"text":"討論事項第34案國家通訊傳播委員會組織法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":2814.505,"end":2835.257,"text":"好,我們請議事人員確認一下報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":2838.7,"end":2864.376,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月11日星期四下午20時30分地點一廠三樓會議室協商主題國家通訊傳播委員會組織法部分條文修正查案協商結論一第四條保留送院會處理二第五條第七條第八條第十條均不予修正維持現行條文三區域照審查會審查結果通過四"},{"start":2866.877,"end":2880.625,"text":"院會進行處理時,非保留部分宣讀後均予以通過保留部分暫保留保留部分院會進行處理前由各黨團推派一人依台灣民眾黨黨團、民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團順序輪流發言每人發言時間為3分鐘發言完畢後即進行保留條文之處理"},{"start":2890.351,"end":2903.461,"text":"協商主持人韓國瑜江啟臣協商代表傅坤祺、洪孟凱、林思明、翁曉玲、柯建民、吳思耀、莊烈雄、鍾嘉斌、黃國昌、黃珊珊、吳春成宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有無異議"},{"start":2907.441,"end":2931.978,"text":"無依本案主條討論時竟因協商結論處理國家通訊傳播委員會組織法第4條保留第5條維持現行條文第7條維持現行條文第8條維持現行條文第10條維持現行條文報告委員會非保留部分"},{"start":2932.839,"end":2943.75,"text":"均已處理完畢保留第四條條文留待協商討論事項第35案"},{"start":2946.974,"end":2967.176,"text":"本院委員翁曉琳等建請院會決議將郭國文委員移送紀律委員會議案本案經第一會期第16次會議決議協商後再行處理報告院會本案應上代協商協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":2971.85,"end":2985.317,"text":"討論事項第36案：本院委員翁曉琳等建請院會決議將中嘉賓委員移送紀律委員會議案：請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":2986.437,"end":3013.249,"text":"韓越委員翁曉琳、羅志強、徐宇貞等13人有鑑於中加密委員於5月17日約會中暴衝上主席臺二度撲倒陳金輝委員而將其摔傷在地中委員不僅手抱陳委員之臂腿更以頭緊貼其下半身造成陳委員臀腿處有大片淤漆傷痕、疼痛、難癌中委員此舉不僅違反《立法委員行為法》第7條第1項第5款"},{"start":3014.609,"end":3024.903,"text":"立法委員應秉持理性問證、共同維護一場秩序﹐不得有暴力之肢體動作之規定﹐各有違反刑法第277條﹐傷害罪與第304條強制罪﹐性騷擾防治法等之餘"},{"start":3029.91,"end":3055.237,"text":"因予以嚴重的譴責,原提案將中教兵委員移送本院紀律委員會及性別平等委員會等相關委員會處以最嚴厲處罰以維護本院立法委員之人身安全,是否有當請供決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子趣,大體討論後"},{"start":3056.84,"end":3084.139,"text":"即議決交付審查或禁付二讀或不予審議報告院會提案委員不說明未有委員登記不發言現在有國民黨黨團提議禁付二讀請問院會有無異議無異議本案禁付二讀"},{"start":3086.021,"end":3099.564,"text":"依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另有民進黨黨團提議交付黨團協商做以下決議本案交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":3149.534,"end":3173.176,"text":"法院會現在處理討論事項第37案本院民進黨黨團建請院會決議要求立法院應針對2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓走廊監視引帶檔案外流儀式進行調查議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":3174.384,"end":3202.094,"text":"委員民進黨黨團建於立法院系全國最高民意殿堂為維護院區內安全因應各項維安需求在院區會議室、研究大樓等均設有監視器而院區監視影像之調閱有一定的申請程序監視錄影畫面檔案並僅供申請人釐清時使用不得作為其他用途為2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓走廊監視影像"},{"start":3203.234,"end":3229.082,"text":"黨案竟由立法院流出在媒體大肆播放、轉傳不僅有違調閱原則亦有侵害各資之餘立法院監視影像涉及全體立委練習立法院相關會議之各部會人員採訪外賓、採訪媒體人員及前來立法院恰公民眾的出入、動態及隱私應嚴守《個人資料保護法》等相關規定避免遭不當利用"},{"start":3229.662,"end":3254.151,"text":"原此建請院會作成決議,要求立法院應針對2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓走廊監視影像檔案外流儀式進行調查,與依照內項院會提報調查結果,並追究相關人員責任是否有當請公決案。宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第八條第三項之規定"},{"start":3254.775,"end":3275.835,"text":"本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後,即議決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議報告委員會本案提案黨團不說明請提案黨團民進黨黨團代表林委員、楚英說明提案子去"},{"start":3286.827,"end":3314.878,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位大院同仁大家早安大家好立法院是最高的民意殿堂但是立法院現在也出現了老大哥正看著你立法院已經成為一個立委辦公的時候被監控的場域嗎在上個星期一也就是7月8號的時候立法院竟然出現了"},{"start":3316.158,"end":3340.107,"text":"有錄影帶可以直接外流的狀況我想要請問各位大院同仁立法院屬於大家的而在這裡辦公我們所面對的一言一行這樣的監視錄影帶在沒有一個合理公告的流程竟然就轉瞬間外流甚至於被拿來到處的轉播跟狂播"},{"start":3341.38,"end":3364.273,"text":"民進黨團認為這是屬於一個大家辦公的場域所有的任何一個研究大樓任何一個研究室任何一個委員會甚至於現在在我們開會的這個場域我們錄影錄音是為了做下記錄但是不是為了針對個人來進行監控"},{"start":3367.515,"end":3386.98,"text":"台灣是一個自由、民主的國家,屬於我們的影像、我們的發言在公開場域當中我們對外播送,但是為了安全的個人的影像,沒有經過當事人的同意,可以這樣流出嗎?這是一個什麼示範?"},{"start":3388.22,"end":3405.052,"text":"我們今天走在自己家裡的大樓當中我們今天走在街上難道說立法院現在要示範的是要告訴大家台灣成為一個被監控的地方嗎台灣變成是一個民意當中"},{"start":3405.812,"end":3426.629,"text":"最高的民意殿堂但是屬於立委的影像可以就這樣私自流出請問有詢問過立委個人嗎請問有詢問過民進黨黨團嗎所以在這裡民進黨團具體的要提出就是希望院會能做成決議針對立法院在2024年7月8號立法院紅樓二樓監視錄影帶外流儀式來進行調查也希望在一週之內向院會提報結果"},{"start":3434.875,"end":3452.606,"text":"今天只是民進黨團受到了這樣的不明原因的外流沒有一個合理的程序如果說今天另外的兩個黨團不論是國民黨團或是民眾黨團你們也認同默許這樣的狀況那麼我們在做一個什麼樣錯誤的一個示範"},{"start":3458.345,"end":3480.047,"text":"所以民進黨團要求針對這一次錄影帶的外流的過程要做一個報告如果今天這種在走廊上在公共空間個人或是個別黨團的影像可以流出那麼也請立法院韓國瑜院長告訴我們"},{"start":3482.037,"end":3500.546,"text":"申請程序是什麼?什麼理由可以申請?否則就會變成公報私仇、私相授受、政治操弄跟政治操作這是在立法院當中其實大家最不願意看到的議事公房可以有各自的論述"},{"start":3501.667,"end":3525.662,"text":"但是不應該用這種私密影像或者是私自的影像來做對外公開的政治操作跟政治報復因此民進黨黨團要求在最高的民意殿堂維護院內安全因應各項維安需求我們期望大院的所有同仁可以一起支持"},{"start":3527.203,"end":3546.937,"text":"來把整個報告還原也讓所有的立法委員不論朝野的立委在自己的工作場域獲得必要的安全與保障而不至於自己的個資或相關的影像會做外流否則這將是一個最錯誤的民意的示範"},{"start":3550.85,"end":3566.881,"text":"好,謝謝林委員說明提案子趣現在進行大體討論,未有委員登記,不發言現有民進黨黨團提議禁覆二讀,請問院會有無異議無異議本案禁覆二讀"},{"start":3569.651,"end":3583.279,"text":"現在依立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另外國民黨黨團也有提案交付黨團協商本案作以下之決議交付黨團協商並由民進黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第38案"},{"start":3595.899,"end":3609.453,"text":"本院民進黨黨團建請院會決議要求立法院針對2024年7月8日本院第11屆第一次會議內政委員會第27次全體委員會會議進行調查議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":3619.639,"end":3633.276,"text":"本院民進黨黨團鑒於立法院各委員會會議之召開包括初練習人員簽到、發言、登記時間等依規定居用一定的作業程序立法院各委員會會議室規則第7條規定會議室門口詮釋會議名稱並設簽到處"},{"start":3638.382,"end":3666.665,"text":"依慣例上午會議於7時30分以後下午會議於1時30分以後於會議室被妥簽到表供初列席人員親自署名簽到立法院議事規則第6條本院會議出席者及列席者均應署名於簽到簿即第60條規定各種委員會發言委員委員發言之登記由委員於開會前一小時起親自登記於該委員會登記簿長久以來"},{"start":3667.706,"end":3696.201,"text":"為各委員會所遵循辦理2024年7月8日本院第11屆第一會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議據開會通知會議時間為上午9時起依規定及慣例上午7時30分起應與會議室備託簽到表公簽到並於上午8時起辦理委員發言登記然當次會議未有委員會人員於時間內到場辦理初列席人員簽到"},{"start":3696.901,"end":3715.338,"text":"一位依法與開會前一小時起本里委員發言登記明顯違反立法院議事規則各委員會會議議事規則嚴重侵害本院委員出席會議發言之權益原此建請委員會作成決議要求立法院針對2024年7月8日本院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第27次全議委員會議為依規定辦理簽到"},{"start":3722.324,"end":3748.747,"text":"委員發言等籍相關作業已是進行調查與一座內項院會提報調查結果並追究相關失職人員責任是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後及議決交付審查或淨附二讀或不予審議"},{"start":3751.548,"end":3757.304,"text":"請提案黨團民進黨黨團代表蘇委員巧惠說明提案子序"},{"start":3765.967,"end":3784.309,"text":"主席各位同仁立法院是一個開會的地方不管是委員會或者是院會我們都應該要遵守開會的各項規則這樣才有辦法大家好好的討論在這個殿堂裡討論這不但是慣例更是規定"},{"start":3785.39,"end":3809.404,"text":"所以說實在的我們就這一次在我們7月8號的內政委員會會議發生了諸多不可取的事項我們當然希望能夠在這裡好好的請整個立法院同仁一起來討論大家可以看到這幾年來我們的委員會其實按照慣例都是在7點30分以後並"},{"start":3812.826,"end":3832.334,"text":"議事人員就會拿出了簽到表單讓各位委員逐一簽到並且在8點左右的時間讓在場的委員可以依序簽到未來發言的順序這是在立法院各委員會會議室規則第7條明擺規定會議室門口懸掛會議名稱並設簽到處"},{"start":3839.196,"end":3865.551,"text":"甚至是在立法院議事規則第6條本院會議出席者及列席者均應署名於簽到部60條規定各種委員會委員發言之登記由委員於開會前一小時起親自登記於該委員會登記部所以我剛剛說不但是慣例更是規定這當然應該要各委員會可以遵守"},{"start":3866.351,"end":3883.606,"text":"可是我們可以看到就在上個禮拜7月8號這個禮拜7月8號本院的第11屆的第一會期內政委員會27次的這一次全體委員會議我們非常遺憾的看到明明就有開會通知會議時間是在上午9點"},{"start":3886.108,"end":3908.041,"text":"7點30分不但沒有議事委員到會場來布置會場當然更沒有所謂的簽到表之後8點也沒有所謂的發驗登記單這讓所有已經到場的委員包括我本席也是內政委員會的委員完全沒有辦法依照既有的慣例"},{"start":3909.121,"end":3931.086,"text":"應該有的規則來就會議事項進行討論這是一個侵害立法委員問政權利極大的傷害如果這個事件可以就這樣輕輕帶過那麼未來是不是各委員會就可以據此主張這即將成為是新的慣例這難道是我們希望這一屆新國會"},{"start":3932.106,"end":3960.527,"text":"作成的表率、作成的慣例是這樣開先河的嗎所以我們在這裡明白的、清楚的要求建請院會能夠作成決議針對這一次的會議未依規定辦理簽到委員發言登記等相關作業這樣的事情進行調查並且於一週內向院會提出調查報告追究相關失職人員的責任請大家支持"},{"start":3965.529,"end":3985.897,"text":"謝謝蘇委員現在進行大體討論未有委員登記不發言現有民進黨黨團提議禁覆二讀請勿願會有無異議無異議本案禁覆二讀現在依立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定"},{"start":3988.413,"end":3996.028,"text":"另外國民黨黨團也有提議交付黨團協商本案做以下之決議交付黨團協商並由民進黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":4004.319,"end":4023.292,"text":"討論事項第39案本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議針對紅樓二樓招人入侵一事進行詳細調查並建請本院應加強院區管理議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":4024.059,"end":4049.175,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於2024年7月8日立法院紅樓二樓有可疑小小之徒以不當手段開鎖、破窗、擅闖會議室嚴重影響本院安全為維護立法院院區之秩序和環境安全以及立法委員職員及相關部會人員之人身安全建起院會作審決議針對紅樓二樓遭人入侵一事進行詳細調查並建起本院應加強院區管理"},{"start":4052.717,"end":4077.798,"text":"嚴懲擅自闖入本院內政委員會202會議師之人事：以及考慮更換不易被外力破壞之門所是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項此規定本案經提案人說明提案只去大體討論後即一決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議"},{"start":4079.452,"end":4084.982,"text":"請提案黨團國民黨黨團代表陳委員喻貞說明提案子去"},{"start":4093.277,"end":4116.943,"text":"主席各位同仁立法院議事衝突所在多有但是呢本黨團提出這個提案是相對應於因為前一個提案民進黨在霸占內政委員會前一個禮拜7月8號的前一個禮拜霸占內政委員會軟禁議事人員之後不讓議事人員可以"},{"start":4117.543,"end":4134.045,"text":"不讓我們的這個召委可以順利的主持會議之後竟然還怕人話叫人的提出剛剛前面的那個那個相關的調查案所以本黨團不得已只好提出相對應的這個提案就是有關於7月8號"},{"start":4136.067,"end":4157.323,"text":"上午正常門被開的時間是7點但是在前一個晚上我們就發現根據調閱立法院相關的監視錄影帶我們就發現內政委員會在前一個晚上就有不明的小小之徒以不明的手段 雞鳴狗道之速入侵本院院區裡頭的紅樓202會議室"},{"start":4161.506,"end":4176.981,"text":"剛剛蘇曉薇委員說得很好我們身為立法委員、國會議員是應該身為人民表率我們來這裡是來做審查議案、增進全民福祉的事情不是來做小小之數7月8號前一個晚上根據監視錄影帶竟然有"},{"start":4184.69,"end":4204.802,"text":"我們的立法委員及不明人士一同進入以不知道什麼方式進入內政委員會用破壞門的門鎖的方式不管說有沒有破壞就是用特別的方式進入了內政委員會造成當日重要的法案無法進行因此"},{"start":4206.514,"end":4234.395,"text":"國民黨黨團提出為了保護我們立法委員職員及相關部會人員之人身安全建請請院會作成決議針對紅樓、二樓在2024年7月8日遭人入侵一事要進行詳細調查同時加強本院的院期管理嚴懲擅自闖入本院內政委員會202會議之人事我們知道除了"},{"start":4235.336,"end":4259.735,"text":"立法委員以外還有一個不知名的人士以及考慮更換因為我看到我們這個立法委員同仁裡頭有特別的有一些有特別的機敏狗道之術不知道如何就可以把鎖很任意的這個打開所以本黨團也建議請本院立法院考慮更換不易被外力破壞之門鎖以上是否有當 見請公決 謝謝"},{"start":4264.796,"end":4289.219,"text":"謝謝陳委員現在進行大體討論未有委員登記發言不發言現有國民黨黨團提議禁覆二讀請問院會有無異本案禁覆二讀現在依立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另外民進黨黨團也有提議"},{"start":4289.864,"end":4316.128,"text":"交付黨團協商本案作以下之決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第40案本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會決議成立國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會一案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":4316.997,"end":4339.597,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團有建於國家發展基金下升國發基金近年投資目標逾過半嚴重虧損如2017年投資如新股份有限公司2018年投資聯合再生能源股份有限公司由新日光能源科技、玉晶能源科技與深陽光電科技合併成立"},{"start":4340.197,"end":4362.296,"text":"於2019年投資東北光電科技股份有限公司國發基金以輪紓困基金由有勝者如心股份有限公司以造假財報坑殺投資人聯合再生能源股份有限公司不僅涉及官商勾結還將中國產製品裝設於軍事要塞國發基金投資弊案易落荒"},{"start":4362.976,"end":4386.087,"text":"而多家令人匪夷所思之投資標的﹐其公司近與府院高層關係密切﹐更讓人懷疑政府罔顧納稅人之權益﹐只顧謀取自家政商利益﹐為釐清國發基金不當投資暨管理失職之原因﹐是否存有不當外力介入﹐以及對投資標的所引申之弊案﹐有無護航放學之行為﹐"},{"start":4386.787,"end":4411.761,"text":"原依據《立法院職權行使法》第8章調查權之形式﹐建請院會作成決議轉禮國家發展基金不到投資暨管理私資調查委員會﹐要求國家發展委員會及行政院﹐國家發展基金管理委員會等有關機關﹐就特定議案涉及事項提供相關調查資料﹐於必要時依《立法院職權行使法》第59條之一舉行聽證會﹐以落實國會監督保證納稅人之權益"},{"start":4416.804,"end":4443.767,"text":"是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項之規定本案經提案人說明提案子去大體討論後即議決交付審查或寄附二讀或不予審議報告委員會本案提案黨團未推派委員說明現在進行大體討論未由委員登記不發言"},{"start":4445.695,"end":4466.221,"text":"現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議禁覆二讀請勿院會有無異議無異議本案禁覆二讀依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另有民進黨黨團提議交付黨團協商作以下之決議本案交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商討論事項第41案"},{"start":4475.509,"end":4481.75,"text":"全民健康保險法第62條條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":4483.444,"end":4509.276,"text":"本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會於113年5月2日舉行全體委員會議審查本案：會議由王肇慶為域名擔任主席 邀請提案委員說明提案要旨並請衛生福利部部長薛瑞元等代表練習說明並備諮詢與會員於聽取說明及詢談後進行逐條討論 完成本案審查另有保留附帶主義三項"},{"start":4510.456,"end":4527.765,"text":"原經決議,併案擬具審查報告提報院會討論本案與院會進行二讀前,須交由黨團先生院會討論本案時,由王召集委譽名補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員王委員譽名補充說明好,慢慢來"},{"start":4540.324,"end":4560.476,"text":"謝謝主席各位院會同仁大家好有關於全民健康保健法第26條條文的修正草案那我作為衛環委員會的召委已經在委員會裡面排了兩次的審議然後兩次的協商那韓院長其實也主持了"},{"start":4561.356,"end":4586.364,"text":"兩次的院會級的協商那這個條文呢我想主要它的目的就是希望可以保障點值讓我們所有醫療院所它的運作、它的營運都可以是正常的運作而不是因為我們健保總額的限制然後被七折八扣影響到醫療品質"},{"start":4588.635,"end":4606,"text":"所以這個事情在選前的時候包括當時的總統候選人侯友宇總統候選人還有當時是總統候選人的賴清德總統候選人都允諾希望可以調高到"},{"start":4606.64,"end":4621.041,"text":"建保點值1.1元的目標那今天國民黨黨團還有蘇津全委員還有包括我本人所提出來的是不同的版本有1.1元也有1.1元"},{"start":4623.169,"end":4635.464,"text":"0.95元那所有的目的就是希望來支持我們的醫療體系我們的醫護人員不要讓他們再繼續的血汗我想最近醫療現場急診"},{"start":4637.506,"end":4639.448,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：請"},{"start":4655.434,"end":4670.065,"text":"這次的修法其實要達到三個目的非常的重要第一個就是保障點值那保障點值是多少大家可以來討論那昨天最新的朝野寫商的版本"},{"start":4673.146,"end":4697.478,"text":"1.0.95那希望這個可以有共識大家往這個目標來邁進第二事實上他希望可以提高的就是我們健保總額的成長率因為我們的健保總額如果沒有適度的成長那當然餅就這麼大然後醫療院所如果他的個案量多的時候他的點值就會自動下降在疫情期間"},{"start":4698.218,"end":4700.219,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4711.96,"end":4734.182,"text":"我們希望透過這樣子的一個立法跟修法可以為醫事人員加薪我想醫護人員在第一線真的非常的辛苦在疫情期間我們都看到他們多麼堅守第一線的崗位為大家打拚然而他們所受到的待遇其實跟他們的付出"},{"start":4734.462,"end":4735.242,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4761.915,"end":4781.721,"text":"這個賴總統他當選之後他說他要打造健康台灣但我要講的是健康台灣不能是一句口號健康台灣你就要去投資我們所有的這一些醫療人員他的薪資的提升跟設備的提升我們"},{"start":4782.261,"end":4782.521,"text":"本院委員"},{"start":4799.753,"end":4800.393,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4823.78,"end":4824.28,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":4845.66,"end":4869.146,"text":"本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外委員謝玉鳳等、委員楊瓊英等分別提案經第一會期第12次會議決定近負二讀並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商抱怨會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":4873.583,"end":4898.932,"text":"討論事項第42案中華民國刑法部分條文修正草案：請宣讀審查報告本院司法及法制委員會於113年4月17日召開全體委員會議並按審查本案由吳仲傑委員沖縣擔任主席除邀請提案委員及黨團說明提案要職位相關機會應邀指派代表列席說明並答覆原詢問"},{"start":4900.412,"end":4901.453,"text":"請召集委員吳委員中線補充說明"},{"start":4924.791,"end":4948.242,"text":"無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商另外委員賴世寶等、委員陳金輝等、委員盧憲宜等、委員盧明哲等分別提案分經第一會期第11次、第13次會議決定近乎二讀必允相關提案併案協商委員徐宇貞等提案經第一會期第12次會議決定"},{"start":4949.563,"end":4960.695,"text":"致委員會抽出近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商報告委員會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":4964.356,"end":4979.001,"text":"討論事項第43案電業法第49條條文修正草案國民黨黨團提案經第一會期第12次會議決定自委員會抽出禁覆二讀"},{"start":4980.121,"end":5008.204,"text":"並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商委員鄭天才等提案,經第一會期第13次會議決定淨富二土與相關提案,併案協商委員陳昌明等提案,經本次會議決定,自委員會抽出淨富二土與相關提案,併案協商報告院會本案因上代協商做以下決議,協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":5011.159,"end":5034.317,"text":"討論事項第44案地方制度法部分條文修正草案：請宣讀審查報告委員內政司法及法制委員會於113年4月18日召開聯席會議審查本案由內政委員會高清召集委員素梅擔任主席除邀請提案委員說明提案要旨並邀請相關經過列席報告並備諮詢"},{"start":5037.259,"end":5060.875,"text":"於報告集詢答完畢,選集進行條文審查,與會委員於聽取說明並進行準密討論後,將全案併案審查完畢,擬具審查報告提報約會討論。約會討論前需經黨團協商,約會討論時由高經召集委員素美補充說明。宣讀完畢請召集委員、高經委員素美補充說明"},{"start":5070.523,"end":5090.366,"text":"主席在場的同仁們大家早安地方制度法第33條審查報告補充說明由我召委高津素美在座跟大家說明現行的地方制度法第33條縣市議員以及鄉鎮市民代表選舉制度裡面僅僅對平地原住民有完整的參政權的保障"},{"start":5091.187,"end":5120.194,"text":"對於人口1500人以上的山地原住民或者涉及在原鄉以外地區的山地原住民卻沒有制定相關的參卷保證的政策這種沒有正當理由的差別待遇造成了政府制定原住民族政策沒有辦法落實在地方山地原住民的權益也沒有人監督也沒有人爭取"},{"start":5120.874,"end":5147.319,"text":"本席在3月13號率先提出了修法的版本並且我以召委的身份在4月18號排審將我跟鄭天才委員的法案版本逐條仔細的審查而委員會審查總共有四個大的重點第一個是法制上我們首次打破了山原平原的隔離"},{"start":5148.459,"end":5176.413,"text":"未來都會區山園平原的人數只要合計達一定的門檻就可以共同選出原民議員第二縣市山園人口達1500個人以上應該要保障一席山地原住民的議員的名額第三新增議員的席次我們是採外加保障"},{"start":5177.54,"end":5199.575,"text":"不會影響現在既有原住民還有一班議員的權益：第4 非山地鄉的鄉鎮市山園的人口：只要達1500個人以上：應該要保障一席山園鄉的鎮市民代表席次"},{"start":5201.117,"end":5228.936,"text":"經過本席溝通並且統整各方的意見之後﹐最終審查的結果﹐就按照召委高金、樹梅等21個人提案通過﹐在這裡我要特別感謝各位內政委員會的支持﹐也要謝謝我們辛苦的議事人員﹐希望待會三讀通過的時候﹐我們的族人能夠聽到這個好消息﹐謝謝"},{"start":5233.293,"end":5251.699,"text":"謝謝高金委員本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商令委員盧憲一等、委員徐富奎等分別之提案分經第一會期第11次、第16次會議決定近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商"},{"start":5252.299,"end":5264.588,"text":"委員吳立華等提案．經第一會期第16次會議決定致委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案並按協商報告院會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":5268.206,"end":5276.231,"text":"與法院黨團協商結論時間113年5月15日星期三下午27分至30、21分113年7月5日星期五上午11時11分至12時43分地點紅樓302會議室協商主題地方制度法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5287.977,"end":5307.801,"text":"協商結論一委員盧憲一等16人提案徵定第4條之1、第83條之9至第83條之11不予徵定二、第83條之2、第83條之3及第83條之7均維持現行條文不予修正三、第33條照協商條文通過盧復建"},{"start":5310.342,"end":5333.353,"text":"協商主持人高金素梅、協商代表傅坤吉、洪孟凱、林思明、鄭天才、盧憲一、柯建明、吳思堯、莊瑞雄、吳立華、陳瑩、王美惠、徐富奎、鍾嘉斌、黃國章、黃珊珊、吳純哲、麥玉珍宣讀完畢請問院會對以上協商結論有異議、無異議本案主條討論時進一協商結論處理"},{"start":5337.554,"end":5361.934,"text":"地方制度法委員盧憲一等提案第4條之一不予增訂請宣讀第33條第33條直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表分別由直轄市民、縣市民、鄉鎮市民依法選舉之任期4年連選得連任直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表名額"},{"start":5363.455,"end":5384.937,"text":"應參酌各該指轄市、縣市、鄉鎮市財政區域狀況並依下列規定與地方立法機關組織準則定之一、指轄市議員總額一、區域議員名額指轄市人口扣除原住民人口在200萬人以下者不得超過55人超過200萬人者不得超過60人"},{"start":5386.138,"end":5402.34,"text":"二、原住民一元名額﹐有平地原住民人口在2000人以上者﹐應有平地原住民選出之一元名額﹐有3地原住民人口在2000人以上﹐或改區前有3地鄉者﹐應有3地原住民選出之一元名額"},{"start":5404.693,"end":5426.761,"text":"2、縣市議員總額1、區域議員名額縣市人口扣除原住民人口在1萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在20萬人以下者不得超過19人人口在40萬人以下者不得超過33人人口在70萬人以下者不得超過43人人口在167"},{"start":5428.402,"end":5441.46,"text":"萬人以下者不得超過57人人口超過160萬人者不得超過60人但依第二目規定計算無原住民議員名額者原住民人口應計入之"},{"start":5443.092,"end":5462.628,"text":"二、原住民一元名額有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者應有平地原住民選出之一元名額有山地原住民人口在1500人以上或有山地鄉者應有山地原住民選出之一元名額無山地鄉之縣市山地原住民"},{"start":5463.208,"end":5484.719,"text":"平地原住民人口數均為達1500人以上者且原住民人口數在2000人以上者應有原住民選出之一元名額有離島鄉及該鄉人口在2500人以上者依前二目規定計算之名額內應有該鄉選出之一元名額鄉鎮市民代表總額"},{"start":5487.201,"end":5504.532,"text":"鄉鎮市人口在1000人以下者不得超過5人人口在1萬人以下者不得超過7人人口在5萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在15萬人以下者不得超過19人人口超過15萬人者不得超過31人"},{"start":5508.252,"end":5522.671,"text":"鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者於節目總額內應由平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額主鄉市議員由原住民選出者以及行政區域內之原住民為選舉區"},{"start":5524.213,"end":5538.725,"text":"並得按平地原住民、山地原住民或在其行政區域內劃分選舉區本法中華民國113年7月16日修正制條文施行後依第二項規定計算之縣市區域議員名額多於111年11月26日選出名額者"},{"start":5544.129,"end":5558.4,"text":"除黎大我縣人口多於111年5月31日之人口5000人以上其餘縣市人口多於4萬人以上整位以111年11月26日選出名額為其名額不適用第二項規定"},{"start":5560.512,"end":5589.011,"text":"各選舉區選出之直轄市議員、縣市議員鄉鎮市民代表名額達4人者應有婦女當選名額1人超過4人者每增加4人增1人直轄市及有山地鄉之縣市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增1人市及無山地鄉之縣"},{"start":5590.332,"end":5609.958,"text":"選出之原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增一人山地鄉以外之鄉鎮市選出之平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增一人"},{"start":5611.098,"end":5640.185,"text":"依第一項選出之指向市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表應於上屆任期屆滿之日宣誓就職該宣誓就職典禮分別由行政院內政部、縣政府召集並由議員代表當選人互推議員主持之其推選會議由曾任議員代表之諮詢者主持之年資相同者由年長者主持之宣討完畢"},{"start":5642.631,"end":5671.73,"text":"照《企業商條文》通過第83條之2、第83條之3及第83條之7均維持現行條文委員盧憲宜等提案第83條之9至第83條之11均不予增訂全案經過二讀現有國民黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有沒有一議沒有一議"},{"start":5673.014,"end":5695.526,"text":"請宣讀經過二讀之條文第33條 直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表分別由直轄市民、縣市民、鄉鎮市民依法選舉之任期四年連選連任直轄市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表名額應參酌各該直轄市、縣市、鄉鎮市財政區域情況"},{"start":5696.486,"end":5710.222,"text":"並依下列規定與地方立法機關組織準則定之一、直轄市議員總額一、區域議員名額直轄市人口扣除原住民人口在200萬人以下者不得超過55人"},{"start":5711.383,"end":5731.224,"text":"超過200萬人者﹐不得超過62人二、原住民一元名額﹐有平地原住民人口在2000人以上者﹐應有平地原住民選出之一元名額﹐有山地原住民人口在2000人以上﹐或改之前有山地鄉者﹐應有山地原住民選出之一元名額"},{"start":5733.185,"end":5756.352,"text":"2、縣市議員總額1、區域議員名額縣市人口扣除原住民人口在1萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在20萬人以下者不得超過19人人口在40萬人以下者不得超過33人人口在70萬人以下者不得超過43人人口在160萬人以下者不得超過57人人口超過160萬人者不得超過60人"},{"start":5762.314,"end":5787.292,"text":"但依第二目規定計算﹐無原住民億元名額者﹐原住民人口應計入之二、原住民億元名額﹐有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者﹐應有平地原住民選出之億元名額﹐有山地原住民人口在1500人以上﹐或有山地鄉者﹐應有山地原住民選出之億元名額"},{"start":5788.172,"end":5810.904,"text":"無山地鄉之縣市山地原住民平地原住民人口數均未達1500人以上者且原住民人口數在2000人以上者應有原住民選出之一元名額有離島鄉且該鄉人口在2500人以上者依前二目規定計算之名額內應有該鄉選出之一元名額"},{"start":5813.185,"end":5831.62,"text":"3、鄉鎮市民代表總額1、鄉鎮市人口在1000人以下者不得超過5人人口在1萬人以下者不得超過7人人口在5萬人以下者不得超過11人人口在15萬人以下者不得超過19人人口超過15萬人者不得超過31人"},{"start":5835.162,"end":5853.043,"text":"2、鄉鎮市由平地原住民人口在1500人以上者於前幕總額內應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額職交市議員由原住民選出者以及行政區域內之原住民為選舉區並得按平地原住民、山地原住民"},{"start":5853.604,"end":5879.776,"text":"或在其行政區域內劃分選舉區本法中華民國113年7月16日修正之條文施行後依第二項規定計算之縣市區域議員名額多於111年11月26日選出名額者處離稻藕縣人口多於111年5月31日之人口5000人以上其餘縣市人口多於4萬人以上者外"},{"start":5880.648,"end":5885.419,"text":"以111年11月26日選出名額為起名額,不是用第二項規定"},{"start":5887.58,"end":5912.014,"text":"各選舉區選出之直鄉市議員、縣市議員鄉鎮市民代表名額達4人者應有婦女當選名額1人超過4人者每增加4人增1人直鄉市及有山地鄉之縣市選出之山地原住民平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額超過4人者每增加4人增1人"},{"start":5912.874,"end":5934.836,"text":"日籍無山地鄉之縣選出之原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額,超過4人者,每增加4人增一人山地鄉以外之鄉鎮市選出之平地原住民名額在4人以上者應有婦女當選名額,超過4人者,每增加4人增一人"},{"start":5935.777,"end":5962.552,"text":"以丁向選出之指向市議員、縣市議員、鄉鎮市民代表應於上屆任期屆滿之日宣誓就職該宣誓就職典禮分別由行政院內政部、縣政府召集並由議員、代表當選人、互推議員主持之其推選會議由曾任議員、代表者之身者主持之年資相同者由年長者主持之宣讀完畢"},{"start":5966.047,"end":5977.328,"text":"三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正無文字修正決議地方制度法第33條條文修正通過"},{"start":5984.755,"end":5996.894,"text":"完成立法程序後現有委員登記發言每位委員發言時間兩分鐘並截止發言登記首先請伍麗華委員發言"},{"start":6018.171,"end":6045.523,"text":"主席各位立院同仁大家好很高興地方制度法第33條在今天終於三讀通過在去年4月的時候我特別在質詢中提出以彰化縣為例3100人的平原可以選出平地原住民一員但3192人的山地原住民卻不能有山地原住民一員"},{"start":6047.268,"end":6073.939,"text":"並且山原也不能參選一般區域議員的選舉也不能參選平地原住民議員的選舉這不僅僅違背了憲法第129條選舉普通的原則也就是說不得以族群等因素限制人民的選舉權這不但是剝奪了個人的權利也是剝奪了族群集體的權利"},{"start":6075.339,"end":6087.712,"text":"因此我主張同樣的一部地方制度法我們一般縣市應該要立刻比照我們的直轄縣市的做法區分出三元平原的議員選舉"},{"start":6089.673,"end":6113.95,"text":"今天我很高興在過去我們的族人所提出這樣不公平不正義的陳情終於在今天在大家的努力之下在內政委員會的排審大家的協商之下終於能夠走到三讀我對於今天這樣的一個結果我想要告訴我們的族人"},{"start":6115.307,"end":6139.374,"text":"在下一次的選舉張化縣雲林縣新竹市基隆市族人們我們終於可以擁有山地原住民一人的選舉未來我想參政的這條路我們的族人還有很多的權益要來共同的爭取我們會跟大家一起繼續努力謝謝大家"},{"start":6143.087,"end":6145.863,"text":"謝謝吳委員下一位請高金素美委員發言"},{"start":6156.226,"end":6174.755,"text":"主席、各位同仁、大家早安這個會期由我擔任召委之後原住民的法案我們通過了非常多所以今天我也特別感謝地方制度法第33條在這邊三讀通過了本次修法我完成了三大里程碑"},{"start":6176.596,"end":6196.896,"text":"法制上我們首次打破了山園和平原的隔離未來都會區的原住民不分山園或平原人數如果合計達到一定的門檻就可以共選原住民的議員完成了族人23年來未盡的志業"},{"start":6200.339,"end":6214.998,"text":"自從90年開始就有立法委員提案三元的參政權必須保障平原之後終於在今天在我召委任內"},{"start":6216.579,"end":6244.06,"text":"三讀通過了在這裡我要謝謝國民黨團一路的支持謝謝民眾黨團的支持當然也要謝謝民進黨回頭是岸那麼再來呢我還要再談的是我要恭喜彰化縣基隆市新竹市雲林縣因為我們的保障是比照平原之後呢"},{"start":6244.921,"end":6259.069,"text":"在這以上的幾個地區都會更增加一席的山地原住民議員第三個是守護屏東鄉親的權益避免少子化的關係會減少了12席的議員"},{"start":6262.671,"end":6278.547,"text":"我想原住民的族人是想要來實質解決問題的立法委員高津素梅、吉瓦斯阿利一定會堅持繼續捍衛族人的權益謝謝高津委員下一位請鄭天才委員發言"},{"start":6299.284,"end":6312.407,"text":"主席、各位委員,非常謝謝達達米阿賴國發落罪高軍宿美召委在今年4月18日內政委員會協商完成之後"},{"start":6313.519,"end":6337.317,"text":"在5月15號、7月5號兩次的黨團協商促成了今天的這個法案的通過地方制度法這個已經實施很久但是對於原住民在都會期的參政前一直是保障不足今天三讀通過的條文基本上有三個幾個重點第一個就是"},{"start":6338.188,"end":6364.782,"text":"我們縣市一眼的保障名額是採外加的保障也就是在區域的總額之外所以不會影響到非原住民的名額第二個就是我們保障了沒有山地鄉的縣市只要人口達到1500人就可以有山地原住民的一眼名額另外就是如果這個都會區這個縣市"},{"start":6367.657,"end":6371.202,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":6386.5,"end":6399.003,"text":"還有雲林縣3地原住民各1期另外雲林縣也會增加平地原住民1期的名額另外就是為了因為因應少子化"},{"start":6400.431,"end":6423.57,"text":"這個屏東縣因為人口不斷減少所以我們把80萬的人口修正為70萬讓我們屏東縣的區域的議員區域選出來的議員的名額不會減少在這邊再次的來謝謝我們所有黨團能夠支持因為這次的地方制度法"},{"start":6431.774,"end":6451.801,"text":"謝謝政委員報告院會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢討論事項第45案花東快速公路建設特別條例草案本案經第一會期第13次會議決議協商後再行處理報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":6455.541,"end":6475.362,"text":"討論事項第46案本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議立即解除禁止人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸公安課、尋小山通、赴金馬棚等三里島縣旅遊觀光一案"},{"start":6476.323,"end":6486.564,"text":"本案經第一會期第13次會議決議加附黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":6489.894,"end":6508.365,"text":"討論事項第47案本院國民黨黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前邀請賴清德總統至立法院就職權相關之國家大政方針"},{"start":6510.407,"end":6522.184,"text":"進行國情報告一案本案經第一會期第13次會議決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商報告院會本案留待處理"},{"start":6525.679,"end":6553.499,"text":"討論事項第48案本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前依立法院職權行使法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統至立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員提出之問題一案"},{"start":6554.332,"end":6582.948,"text":"本案經第一會期第三次會議決議交付協商並請院長召集協商報告院會本案留待處理討論事項第49案本院台灣民眾黨黨團建請院會決議本會期延會至113年7月31日一案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":6584.008,"end":6600.8,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團有鑑於截至113年7月9日前﹐全院委員會及交通、政與及文化聯繫委員會﹐軍事委將第14屆考試院人事同意全案及國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意全案之審查報告提報委員會﹐"},{"start":6602.141,"end":6626.313,"text":"且各委員會均仍有如公益階壁者保護法草案、不在籍投票法草案、衛星廣播電視法部分條文修正草案、促進全國住宅使用特別稅條例草案、法院組織法第66條職務條文及第73條副表修正草案及高級中等校學及幼兒園、午餐公餐法草案等重大法案及待審議"},{"start":6627.868,"end":6641.638,"text":"為落實實施審查第14屆口吸院人事同意權案及國家通訊承諾委員會人事同意權案履行我國在聯合國反貪腐公約內國法化之效之國家義務及106年司法改革國際會議所達成之決議"},{"start":6647.982,"end":6672.231,"text":"保障及鼓勵接壁者踴躍揭發不法弊案建立聯能政府維護公共利益去實現保障無法返回戶籍地行使投票權之民眾參與政治的權利強化一般人民對於經營新聞節目之業者進行公眾監督而有必要可與電視新聞業者公開發行義務股權資訊揭露業務"},{"start":6675.292,"end":6692.739,"text":"財務資訊揭露義務以及採購補助與廣告收入來源揭露義務﹐以促進資訊透明並確保新聞專業自主﹐增加動物足跡控制房屋持有稅負﹐以鼓勵房屋釋出﹐減少空置並兼顧以稅制引導健全方式"},{"start":6693.919,"end":6718.436,"text":"為校園飲食安全保安、建立營養、使農教育及完善校園供餐體系實踐聯合國永續發展目標與人道經濟之進步價值以促進學生健康飲食及健全學生身心發展：建請院會作成決議本第一會期研會至113年7月31日星期三至是否有當請供決案宣讀完畢"},{"start":6719.864,"end":6747.103,"text":"依照立法院職權行使法第8條第3項此規定本案經提案人說明提案只去大體討論後即議決交付審查或禁副二讀或不予審議報告委員會提案黨團未推派委員說明現在進行大體討論未有委員登記不發言現有台灣民眾黨黨團提議禁副二讀"},{"start":6749.8,"end":6767.278,"text":"請勿院會有無異議本案禁覆二讀依據立法院職權行使法第74條之一規定另有民進黨黨團提議交付黨團協商做以下之決議本案交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商"},{"start":6774.038,"end":6780.568,"text":"討論事項第50案學生輔導法部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":6782.148,"end":6806.027,"text":"本院教育及文化委員會於113年6月26日召開全體委員會議併案審查本案會中邀請提案委員說明提案指趣教育部部長鄭英耀及相關人員列席報告並備諮詢事後於同年7月4日召開全體委員會議繼續併案審查本案再於同年7月8日召開全體委員會議繼續併案"},{"start":6807.988,"end":6821.037,"text":"審查本案：三次會議均由柯照吉委員之恩擔任主席與會員於聽取說明及詢談後進行逐條討論：完成本案審查令通過附帶全議八項"},{"start":6823.206,"end":6846.332,"text":"令有附帶決議實案均保留送院會處理本案審查文件併案領據審查報告提醒院會公決院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由柯召集委員致恩補充說明宣讀完畢請召集委員、柯委員致恩補充說明無補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商"},{"start":6849.335,"end":6875.001,"text":"令行政院委員吳思瑤等分別提案：今本次會議決定近乎二讀與相關提案併案協商報告院會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理討論事項第51案警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":6876.598,"end":6893.368,"text":"本院司法及法制內政委員會於113年6月13日召開聯席會議併案審查本案由吳兆景委員宗憲擔任主席除邀請提案委員說明提案要職外內政部及相關機關應邀指派代表練習說明及答覆委員詢問"},{"start":6895.905,"end":6912.623,"text":"余或緣於聽取報告並經巡大後進行逐條審查並將全案審查完略原經決議審查完略擬具審查報告提醒院會公決本案須交由黨團寫生院會討論時由吳兆己委員宗憲出席說明宣讀完畢"},{"start":6915.189,"end":6928.906,"text":"請召集委員吳委員中現補充說明吳補充說明本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商報告院會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":6932.076,"end":6948.676,"text":"法院會現有民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團針對討論事項第一案通過之《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例》提出補充立法說明列入公報記錄法院會現在休息"},{"start":10815.745,"end":10828.657,"text":"八院會現在繼續開會進行討論事項第29案403政災重建條例草案現有各黨團共同提議本案不予審議並通過決議請議事人員宣讀決議內容各黨團"},{"start":10837.398,"end":10864.157,"text":"同意《討論事項》第29案403政災重建條例草案《討論事項》第45案花東快速公路特別條例草案軍部與審議並通過決議如附件優惠處理時﹐各黨團同意軍部發言與完成程序後依協商結論推派代表發言復婚期柯建銘、黃國昌宣讀完畢選委員會對各黨團提議有依"},{"start":10868.462,"end":10883.909,"text":"五議各黨團提議通過做以下決議本案不予審議通過決議一你要繼續念主學議啊好那請繼續念主學議"},{"start":10890.686,"end":10911.675,"text":"主決議一、403地震影響花蓮盛聚行政院自地震發生後由院長成立災害重建小組並擔任召集人協調各部會內政部花蓮0403花蓮重建專案辦公室匡列超過300億經費投入復原重建花蓮重建不難等"},{"start":10913.055,"end":10940.649,"text":"應從速從優重建尤其是因地震受損之房舍為使花蓮民眾盡速重建家園在租金補貼、弱層補強拆除重建皆投入預算補助照顧花蓮鄉親目前多數紅單房舍已進入都更及危老作業程序未來可得到容積獎勵以降低負擔如意願參加危老都更原地重建者補助以原地"},{"start":10941.429,"end":10969.17,"text":"原容積之興建成本85%為原則並為上限其辦法於2個月內定之二、0403地震災區住戶房屋因地震毀損不堪居住地方損失重大且經認定為洪灘之房屋其拆除運輸巨化之費用依法由地方政府先以災害準備金致應其餘不足部分應由中央政府全額負擔相關費用"},{"start":10971.713,"end":10985.626,"text":"3、0403大地震造成花蓮觀光重創,為災後振興地方產業,以行政院以匡列之振興預算,由經濟部交通部與花蓮縣政府共同研議,經濟部活絡業市商圈0.3599億元"},{"start":10987.908,"end":11008.564,"text":"交通部旅遊振興12.7億議員提出振興辦法以促進活絡花蓮經濟發展提案人傅坤祺、鄭天才、黃國昌、洪孟凱、吳春晨、林國成、李思明、黃珊珊、林益君、柯建銘、吳思堯、莊瑞雄宣讀完畢委員會對於各黨團的提議有依"},{"start":11017.54,"end":11023.264,"text":"沒有異議各黨團提議通過做以下決議本案不予審議通過決議如下一"},{"start":11028.073,"end":11052.509,"text":"0403地震影響花蓮盛聚行政院自地震發生後由院長成立災後重建小組並擔任召集人協調各部會內政部花蓮0403花蓮重建專案辦公室匡列超過300億經費投入復原重建花蓮重建不能等因重塑、重優、重減"},{"start":11053.49,"end":11082.309,"text":"尤其是因地震受損之房舍為使花蓮民眾盡速重建家園再租金補貼、落成補強、拆除重建皆投入預算補助、照顧花蓮鄉親目前多數紅單房舍已進入督更及危老作業程序未來可得到榮基獎勵以降低負擔如無意願參加危老督更原地重建者"},{"start":11083.368,"end":11100.9,"text":"補助以原地原容積資興建成本85%為原則並為上限其辦法於2個月內定資二、臨時離山地震災區住戶房屋因地震毀損不堪居住"},{"start":11101.721,"end":11118.716,"text":"地方損失重大且經認定為紅單之房屋其拆除、運輸、去化之費用依法由地方政府先以災害準備金指引其餘不足部分應由中央政府全額負擔相關費用"},{"start":11122.67,"end":11140.862,"text":"3.0403大地震造成花蓮觀光重創為災後振興地方產業以行政院以匡列之振興預算由經濟部、交通部與花蓮縣政府共同研議經濟部活絡業市商圈0.3599億元、交通部"},{"start":11144.505,"end":11171.419,"text":"旅遊振興12.7億元提出振興辦法以促進活絡花蓮經濟發展現在我們有委員登記程序後的發言我們每位委員發言時間兩分鐘並截止發言登記首先我們請林玉君委員發言"},{"start":11180.509,"end":11197.035,"text":"林委員有要先發言嗎還是要讓副委員先發言還是副委員要先發言我們讓林委員休息一下那現在請副坤祺委員發言時間兩分鐘"},{"start":11210.12,"end":11238.728,"text":"主席、各黨委員先進、全國的各位父老鄉親今天非常的感謝在立法院由國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨三黨共同協議來推動零四零三災後重建以及振興相關的主決議並在院會正式的來通過台灣有風有雨"},{"start":11246.131,"end":11264.059,"text":"臺灣的靠山臺灣島之所以形成是由大陸板塊跟菲律賓板塊擠壓而成而接縫的地方就在花東所以不管是天災地變往往臺灣的靠山花東人民必須很堅強地在第一線為臺灣來阻擋這些"},{"start":11267.757,"end":11271.64,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案．請"},{"start":11290.922,"end":11308.284,"text":"兼949戶的紅單跟黃單阿阿代補需要各界共同的支持更需要跟中央來攜手完成所有重建的工作讓災民不再無家可歸有一個安定生活的家還有所有善後的工作"},{"start":11308.844,"end":11309.285,"text":"併案審查行政委員"},{"start":11337.308,"end":11339.161,"text":"下一位請林益君委員發言"},{"start":11365.513,"end":11381.927,"text":"各位大家好零四零三花蓮大地震後觀光客都進不來國旅失衡加上道路中斷對花東的交通不方便一大堆問題造成花蓮的觀光一落千丈"},{"start":11382.788,"end":11403.725,"text":"然後現在國人照花蓮住宿不分平日都有提供補助然後就是要開始透過花蓮用以最以傲的觀光業來振興經濟然後蘇花鹿廊也因為地震就開始土石流然後也讓大家居民都不敢回來然後這一次的0403的大地震"},{"start":11404.245,"end":11420.491,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人�"},{"start":11428.854,"end":11429.695,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":11445.934,"end":11468.445,"text":"三黨都有做成協議就是要希望能夠快點搶救到我們花蓮能夠重建我們花蓮的光光所以現在今天是真的是讓我們花蓮人真的感受到在那麼多年那麼多次的努力下我們終於有一絲絲的曙光可以來花蓮把花蓮好好的重建"},{"start":11469.085,"end":11478.509,"text":"所以希望還有一點希望能夠趕快把捐款還有相關的預算下放真正落實在我們花蓮這次的災後重建謝謝好謝謝林委員現在登記發言的委員均已發言完畢發言會現在進行"},{"start":11491.871,"end":11501.485,"text":"討論事項第45案花東快速公路建設特別條例草案現有各黨團共同提議本案不予審議並通過決議請議事人員宣讀決議內容"},{"start":11507.425,"end":11530.477,"text":"為促進花東地區的交通安全及便捷﹐為帶動花東產業發展的重要關鍵﹐並持續提供花東地區居民一條更安全便捷道路﹐立法院權益交通部﹐儘速推動花東快速公路興建﹐花東快速公路可行性評估﹐於今年8月份完成期末報告﹐請交通部儘速完成審議程序﹐"},{"start":11532.237,"end":11558.764,"text":"並積極辦理環境影響評估、原住民部落諮商、建設計劃審議、供預算籌編、工程設計、用地取得等作業﹐依法完成相關程序後,儘早發工施工確保花東居民等通行安全﹐前後期程以12年完工為限﹐提案人﹐福崑起﹐賺天才﹐黃國昌﹐洪孟凱﹐吳春成﹐林思明﹐林國成﹐林益君﹐"},{"start":11559.624,"end":11582.16,"text":"黃珊珊、柯建銘、吳思瑤、莊瑞雄宣讀完畢請問院會對各黨團提議有無異議沒有異議各黨團提議通過做以下決議本案不予審議二、通過決議如下為促進花東地區的交通安全及便捷"},{"start":11584.087,"end":11607.52,"text":"為帶動花東產業發展的重要關鍵並持續提供花東地區居民一條更安全便捷的道路立法院決議交通部儘速推動花東快速公路興建花東快速公路可行性評估於今年8月份完成期末報告請交通部儘速完成審議程序"},{"start":11609.801,"end":11634.992,"text":"並積極辦理環境影響評估、原住民部落諮商、建設計畫審議、公務預算籌編、工程設計、用地取得等作業依法完成相關程序後,儘早發包施工,確保花東居民等通行安全,前後期程以12年完工為限"},{"start":11637.929,"end":11650.076,"text":"發言會現有委員登記完成程序後的發言每位委員發言時間兩分鐘截止發言登記首先我們邀請傅坤祺委員發言"},{"start":11665.454,"end":11691.326,"text":"主席所有立法院各政黨的委員全國所有各親愛的鄉親今天在立法院我們各政黨共同來寫歷史在花東人民一直迫切的希望能夠一條安全回家的路經過了幾十年花東人民用血淚這麼多的悲劇"},{"start":11692.745,"end":11718.224,"text":"我們後山的人民一起走過在今天立法院各政黨共同連署讓花東快速道路能夠正式來做成主決議並通過這次的大地震0403光是花蓮地區6次到8次的崩山蘇花公路"},{"start":11719.582,"end":11721.623,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具"},{"start":11744.68,"end":11768.839,"text":"這都是來自於全國跟全世界的好朋友這條安全回家路的新建是給所有中華民國國民共同來使用我想今天要特別的感謝大家能夠讓安全的路順利的來達成從台北到宜蘭通過國道5號接著銜接蘇花改再加上蘇花安"},{"start":11769.744,"end":11796.312,"text":"在銜接花東快從台北到台東市有一條完整的安全的回家的路再一次謝謝立法院各政黨大家同心協力為台灣人民一起找出路讓大家都能夠平安謝謝各位 謝謝謝謝副委員下一位請林益君委員發言"},{"start":11819.022,"end":11836.768,"text":"小小的台灣西部和東部的交通和區域發展竟然可以那麼嚴重的失衡東部的交通便利性與西部相比竟然是天差地遠西部已經好幾條高速公路但是東部連一條都沒有"},{"start":11837.668,"end":11853.137,"text":"所以其實不曉得是不是怎麼會有人反對呢那這樣大家是不是有將心比心呢所以怎麼可能對怎麼會對得起我們花東人的人民呢好站在台北的看台灣和台北觀點和西部人的觀點來決定我們花東人的命運這是我們一直長期以來"},{"start":11857.299,"end":11857.579,"text":"審議案審議案審議案審議案審議案審議案審議案"},{"start":11880.427,"end":11907.166,"text":"甚至國外的人要來花蓮都有一條安全快速的道路感謝大家的支持花東快此次真的是迎來後山日仙照謝謝大家當然也希望不是只上談兵要快速執行謝謝謝謝林委員報案會登記發言委員均已發言完畢報案會現在休息"},{"start":21636.312,"end":21650.673,"text":"報告委員會現在我們繼續開會剛才由各黨團共事各黨團同意本次會議議程所列討論事項之議案廣泛討論時由台灣民眾黨推派一位"},{"start":21651.434,"end":21669.985,"text":"民進黨黨團推派兩位國民黨黨團推派兩位發言逐條討論時由台灣民眾黨推派一位民進黨黨團推派一位國民黨黨團推派一位來發言我們現在休息繼續協商"},{"start":23491.445,"end":23520.778,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會討論事項第18案洗錢防制法修正草案本案上待溝通留待處理報告委員會討論事項第19案科技偵查及保障法草案本案上待溝通留待處理"},{"start":23522.503,"end":23541.209,"text":"報告委員會討論事項第20案外國專業人才延攬及僱用法部分條文修正草案做以下決議協商後再行處理報告委員會現在我們議場二樓旁邊的是臺北延平高中的同學歡迎大家歡迎你們哈歡迎歡迎"},{"start":23544.11,"end":23552.719,"text":"報告事項第23案野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案作以下決議協商後再行處理"},{"start":23555.626,"end":23581.013,"text":"官員會報告事項第27案本院民進黨團針對第11屆第一會期第16次會議報告事項第18案、第39案至第43案、第84案院會所作決定提出復議請公決案本案經第一會期第17次會議決議令定期處理現在我們進行處理我們"},{"start":23582.281,"end":23583.463,"text":"我們按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡請按鈴"},{"start":24015.472,"end":24032.51,"text":"報告委員會請問每一位委員是不是都有簽到都有拿到表決卡每一位委員都有拿到表決卡OK好報告委員會再一次相應會報告針對民進黨黨團"},{"start":24088.41,"end":24104.641,"text":"每個委員的表決卡都有拿到吼?好的現在針對民進黨黨團所提復議案我們進行表決現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24195.814,"end":24210.945,"text":"報告院會現在報告表決結果出席委員110位贊成51位反對59位贊成者少數報告院會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24289.773,"end":24304.843,"text":"報告委員會現在報告重複表決結果出席109位贊成51位反對58位贊成者少數我們決議復議案不通過本案報告事項照原作決定通過"},{"start":24307.232,"end":24323.74,"text":"現在我們討論事項第28案本院民進黨黨團針對第11屆第1會期第18次會議包括事項第6案、第15案及第16案院會所作決定提出復議請公決案本案經第1會期第19次會議決議"},{"start":24325.535,"end":24341.054,"text":"定期處理現在進行處理八月會現有民進黨黨團所提復議案要求進行表決而且進行記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘我們現在開始"},{"start":24421.325,"end":24427.011,"text":"報告院會現在宣布表決結果出席委員109位贊成51位反對58位贊成者少數報告院會現有民進黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":24511.721,"end":24515.808,"text":"報告現在報告重複表決結果出席委員110位贊成51位反對59位贊成者少數"},{"start":24521.462,"end":24548.293,"text":"決議附議案不通過本案報告事項照原作決定通過報告委員會現在報告討論事項第30案新住民權益保障法草案報告委員會本案應上代溝通留待處理報告委員會討論事項第32案刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案本案上代溝通留待處理"},{"start":24551.118,"end":24576.183,"text":"現在我們進行報告事項第33案本院國民黨團建請院會決議農業部因調整公糧收購價格由每公斤26元調整至每公斤34元一案報院會因協商已超過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理"},{"start":24577.407,"end":24590.965,"text":"緣於本次會議提出討論報應會現在我們進行廣泛討論依黨團共識由各黨團派代表發言首先我們先請台灣民眾黨張祺凱委員發言時間3分鐘"},{"start":24611.155,"end":24633.345,"text":"我們廣大的農民朋友們苦等了13年的供糧收購終於有機會要調整了最近軍工教的薪水就要調高了今天立法院應該很有機會調高苦等13年沒有調整的供糧收購的價格"},{"start":24635.152,"end":24654.982,"text":"這次的調整只是滿足幫我們最基層、最辛苦的農民一個最基礎的生活所需因為我們現在的農民朋友啊貪無價最近這13年啊我們的物價、基本工資漲太多了只有我們農民的公糧收購13年"},{"start":24657.329,"end":24659.01,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":24684.161,"end":24691.419,"text":"台灣民眾黨是一個理性、務實、科學的政黨所以我們精算完之後我們提出"},{"start":24692.728,"end":24716.757,"text":"每一公斤的公糧收購調漲五塊錢公糧收購每一公斤調漲五塊錢另外台灣民眾黨作為一個解決問題務實的政黨我們要提出以後不要變成看天田每一年都要喊價我們期待今天調漲的同時我們制定一個公式包括把"},{"start":24717.797,"end":24741.56,"text":"物價把基本工資放進去以後工糧收購每三年依照浮動的公式來調漲一次這個在社會福利在台北市的公車的票價都是用這樣子以後工糧收購變成是一個有公式不是看天田每三年我們浮動來檢討一次這次的討論過程非常謝謝"},{"start":24743.154,"end":24762.34,"text":"有各黨的立委後來也都是支持的國民黨現在提出的版本是一公斤要調漲八塊錢經過初步的溝通兩黨已經有初步的共識我們今天往五塊錢來走那我們也期待民進黨有非常多的立法委員對我們的農民朋友也是很照顧的"},{"start":24763.96,"end":24791.67,"text":"等下表決的時候大家能夠支持台灣民眾黨所提出來的最新版本一方面每公斤調漲五塊錢第二個用公視以後每三年來讓公兩決定要不要漲漲多少第三個更重要台灣民眾黨一直在強調的是我們要這次是要滿足跟幫助我們最基層的這個農民一個生活所需所以請大家共同來支持謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":24797.939,"end":24801.32,"text":"謝謝張祺凱委員的發言 接下來請登記第二號 邱毅英委員發言"},{"start":24818.51,"end":24844.021,"text":"主席、各位同仁我們現在要討論的是關乎台灣整體農業發展秩序的公糧收購價格提高的議案公糧收購價格是不是應該提高要提高多少在立法院甚至在民間經過多次的討論我想請教大家我們很多的農民現在都在看"},{"start":24845.181,"end":24861.848,"text":"臺灣的稻農繳交公糧的大概只佔3成所以國民黨的委員說為了這3成的稻農提高公糧的收購對整體影響不會太大所以國民黨提出的版本公糧收購價格要調漲8塊錢"},{"start":24864.369,"end":24870.913,"text":"我們必須提醒大家的是公糧收購價格一旦調漲整體的產業鏈生產也會跟著調漲請問大家調漲8塊錢之後總苗業者會不會調漲會"},{"start":24882.62,"end":24896.256,"text":"待耕業者會不會調漲會肥料會不會跟著也調漲會整個稻米產業鏈的成本就會跟著一步的大幅調漲"},{"start":24897.577,"end":24926.07,"text":"而七成不繳公糧的這些稻農面對到代耕、種苗、肥料所有的產業鏈跟著調漲的時候這七成的稻農它的生產成本會不會也跟著增加一定會這就是為什麼我們反對公糧價格調漲的一個主要因素我們初步算過如果按照國民黨提的版本"},{"start":24926.67,"end":24932.612,"text":"公糧收購價格調漲8塊的話預計所需的收購經費是194.6億元194.6億元比現行的收購預算81.6億元足足要增加113億元"},{"start":24948.597,"end":24970.395,"text":"臺灣的農業應該照顧但是不是只有照顧這三成的稻農臺灣有很多包括花卉、雜糧、果樹其他的農產業都需要政府給予大力的輔導所以我們應該要支持農業部所提出來的"},{"start":24971.215,"end":24993.001,"text":"一極二轉3加3我們讓更多的農民能夠去種植優良的稻米讓農民的稻米產銷來進行集團的產作甚至轉做各些旱作的雜糧甚至我們第三個3加3我們就是提高水稻收入保險優質加強的項目"},{"start":24996.123,"end":25012.952,"text":"讓整個台灣的農產業都能夠全幅提升：懇請大家支持公糧價...謝謝邱毅英委員的發言接下來請登記第三位楊瓊英委員發言"},{"start":25024.943,"end":25050.196,"text":"我們尊敬的韓院長各位同仁、新聞界的朋友我要請教公糧收購13年不多我請問民進黨的朋友這13年我們的肥料有去嗎有沒有漲不要顛倒是非不照顧農民還要片面的污衊請大家冷靜下來"},{"start":25051.604,"end":25079.7,"text":"本集在主持經濟委員會我要特別感謝藍白綠的委員全力支持我們的農民所以因此我要說公糧收購價格13年沒有調漲嚴重的影響我們農民的權益我們看到我再次強調公糧收購價格2011年起就不動了"},{"start":25081.558,"end":25086.562,"text":"13年來基本工資漲幅53.64% 營苗每盤從28塊漲到40塊 漲幅43%我們的物價指數上漲15%以上 農藥肥料上漲將近25%"},{"start":25102.233,"end":25122.081,"text":"本卿也說農民耕作的成本不斷地在增加那麼因此國內的工資也不斷地在調整所以我們堅定認為必須要全面照顧農民我在這邊懇求所有我們的"},{"start":25123.581,"end":25144.997,"text":"藍綠白的委員待會我們希望看到一致的同意綠燈讓我們的公糧收購13年來我們給他調整五塊全面的照顧農民農業部提出針對農民有利的方案我們非常的樂見而且公開來討論"},{"start":25147.301,"end":25163.506,"text":"各位委員我們心想以農立國的台灣有什麼理由不照顧我們的農民對不對所以我要拜託我們所有藍綠白的委員待會我們要還給農民的一個公道"},{"start":25164.386,"end":25189.828,"text":"我更要告訴農業部針對農民有利的方案請你也要一定一定的精進方案出來比如說你的轉作方案我們的老農要更改要轉作不是那麼容易你要怎麼樣來協助我們的老農這應該是我們的農業部應該要提出"},{"start":25190.609,"end":25195.451,"text":"尤其我們農業的人力不足農業部你應該要提出所以最基本的我們的公糧收購價格13年沒有調漲拜託大家全力同意調漲五塊還農民公道謝謝謝謝楊瓊英委員的發言接下來請登記第4號鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":25223.704,"end":25224.846,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":25238.171,"end":25259.788,"text":"主席 各位董事 沒對一個國家的政府沒要照顧農民沒對一個政黨沒要照顧農民但是公牛和保家政策 咱們真正現出是在照顧人民半世紀進程 因為台灣人口多 咱中農生產不足所以政府有這個公牛保家的制度"},{"start":25260.589,"end":25266.032,"text":"但是經過這半世紀的演變,第一,國際農業目標,我們很多牛是可以進口第二,我們社會因此的習慣改變,我們台灣吃米吃得少,因此,這個供牛補給制度,變成補充照顧農民的生活"},{"start":25279.921,"end":25299.109,"text":"但正在想,台灣的農民雖然生意是第一大作物﹐但正在想,我們農民的土地不是只有土地﹐現在是土農當中﹐三成才符合到供牛收工的主計﹐七成的土農﹐是沒有收到這個政策的保護﹐但這個政策的結構﹐造成這幾年來﹐請愛企業機制受到迫害﹐"},{"start":25303.11,"end":25323.725,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":25328.809,"end":25334.315,"text":"在13年前,我們在市內一群島介紹條件三項,其他的補貼條件兩項,忽然間,條件五項的結果,加過去三項跟兩項的区間的差別很大。因此,大多數不是紐西哥的長農現在來專注擴大面積,作為先第二年的介紹的方法。"},{"start":25349.753,"end":25375.897,"text":"是在向公牛介紹水田收工提款﹚但像剛才說的﹚歸了各種人工的全部都增加﹚農民在中性的福祉並沒有改善﹚是在向這幾年來政府雖然沒有大幅提升公牛收工的介紹﹚但是透過其他種種的促進﹚包括說對地的綠色環境補助﹚這樣的一個制度也鼓勵農民實施轉作的制度﹚"},{"start":25376.797,"end":25390.602,"text":"實際上,農民、豬農也沒辦法全部交公牛,我們有居委收工,有福德收工,有漁農收工,所以實際上這三個小的豬農,或是所有的政策都可以在公牛介紹的步驟所以我們來看,這憲書是猜出一群人有挑戰及誤會的情形"},{"start":25395.064,"end":25414.247,"text":"是在向中農、地域、來地、看起來、歡喜、介紹提款但是在向英雄、英雄給我們其他戰友作物的介紹包括我們屏東省紅島的,現在大家都來省下,這時候英雄有企業介紹的普通對農民真的不好,第二,我們在吃飽多餘,我們未來14多年,專來對農民是更加好的,我們保育農務部來照顧中農,照顧全體農民"},{"start":25431.892,"end":25450.021,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言接下來請登記第5號丁薛忠委員發言感謝議長、縣長、各位立委、黨領大家好我在這要向我們修正各位黨領報告"},{"start":25456.879,"end":25462.843,"text":"農民的生活正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正正"},{"start":25486.22,"end":25499.791,"text":"日經已經13年都沒有調整經濟統計這段期間國防部的指數升至25%基於我們公司也調供5成以上委員國一半年的基於我們公司1萬7千多個到此時已經調供到2萬7千多個另外 農民的行政主宰也跟公司都不斷的企劃"},{"start":25513.923,"end":25522.647,"text":"經濟、生活一直在增加：在官府之後：介紹、企業之後：農民的養育費：經濟費用、肥料、農業：都已經企到非常嚴重：農地所需要："},{"start":25528.851,"end":25534.054,"text":"大幅上漲的成本,造就給我們農民已經苦苦甘願。農民推到我們台灣流失穩定有重大的貢獻。這33年來,農民各行費用,贏領到重大的一個帳戶,造成我們農民經濟、經濟、利益來求遂。我們農業公共收工,所應援不可。"},{"start":25557.746,"end":25578.194,"text":"這是口頭說,照顧農民,所有生意都要做,更何況提供公牛收工介紹﹐也會對抗提供其他農作物的收益。對於農民照實際的一個工作﹐為了我們農民的管理,我們是在這裡鼓勵要求﹐行政院應該要提供公牛收工介紹﹐為公經國庫﹐"},{"start":25581.895,"end":25585.179,"text":"讓我們由26項調整至31項依然復旧擴充地產農園成分的增加﹐落實到照顧農園的一個政策﹐我們現在都聽過說的﹐"},{"start":25596.442,"end":25596.642,"text":"本院委員"},{"start":25626.822,"end":25627.763,"text":"好 感謝大家"},{"start":25644.13,"end":25662.134,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議．事日程討論事項．33案擬具在修身動椅如下藉請用會作成決議一、有鑑於公糧收購價格自民國109年起﹐期間已長達13年未調整﹐期間物價到幅上漲﹐"},{"start":25666.195,"end":25683.316,"text":"包括人工肥料、農業資材等成本提升導致農民耕作利益嚴重減損基層農民難以維持生計二、政府應對農業政策進行整體通盤考慮並平均產業發展保障國家糧食安全"},{"start":25684.057,"end":25711.529,"text":"運用科技智慧化打造農業防災安全網本院要求農業部應綜合考量各項成本包含人工肥料及物價指數將公糧收購價格在每公斤26元調升5元以上並加速提升整體雜糧種植面積之計畫以因應近年物價劇烈波動導致物農成本提高體恤基層農民之政策"},{"start":25714.622,"end":25725.067,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於公糧收穫價格自2011年起,迄今已長達13年未調整。反觀13年間,基本工資從17,880元漲到27,470元,工資漲幅53.64%。"},{"start":25732.811,"end":25756.38,"text":"央苗由每排28元上漲到40元上漲43%物價指數上漲超過15%其他如農藥、肥料上漲近25%農民耕種成本不斷增加為公糧收購價格軟體流13年前水準嚴重影響農民權益故公糧收購價格應每公斤至少提高5元以上"},{"start":25757,"end":25785.146,"text":"加以極端氣候嚴重威脅、威脅農業生產力導致農民收入的不穩定性加劇原此建請院會作成決議農業部應綜合考量各項成本及物價指數調整公糧收穫價格由每公斤26元調整至每公斤30億元提高農民基本利潤以因應近年物價劇烈波動導致物農成本增加"},{"start":25785.886,"end":25809.103,"text":"陸神照顧農民主政策：同時加速推廣國產藏糧種植：保障糧食安全：並進行建構有蓄意任性的臺灣農業：降低氣候變遷帶來的衝擊：是否有當情工決案宣讀完畢報告委員會請問委員會我們照臺灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議通過有無異議"},{"start":25815.083,"end":25831.902,"text":"沒有異議好沒有異議的話我們就照台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議通過現在報告委員會現在做以下決議一"},{"start":25832.918,"end":25847.154,"text":"有鑑於公糧收購價格自民國109年起迄今已長達13年未調帳其間物價大幅上漲包括人工、肥料、農業、資材等成本提升導致農民耕作利益嚴重減損"},{"start":25848.195,"end":25873.826,"text":"基層農民難以維持生計二政府應對農業政策進行整體通盤考量並平均產業發展保障國家糧食安全運用科技智慧化打造農業防災安全網三本院要求農業部應綜合考量各項成本包括人工肥料及物價指數將供糧價格至每公斤26元調升為5元以上"},{"start":25877.285,"end":25904.088,"text":"並加速提升整體雜糧種植面積之計劃以因應近年來物價劇烈波動導致務農成本提高體恤基層農民之政策四、農業部應綜合考量各項成本及物價指數調整公糧收購價格由每公斤26元調至每公斤31元提高農民基本利潤"},{"start":25905.56,"end":25920.047,"text":"以因應近年物價劇烈浮動導致務農成本增加、落實照顧農民的政策同時加速推廣國產雜糧種植保障糧食安全並積極建構永續韌性的台灣農業降低氣候變遷帶來的衝擊"},{"start":25928.418,"end":25935.211,"text":"報議會現在有兩個附帶決議我們來處理繼續處理院會所做的附帶決議先處理國民黨團體附帶決議共一項請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":25940.988,"end":25969.321,"text":"國民黨黨團附帶決議為保障農民權益公糧收購價格應每年參考物價指數平穩化肥價格政策後決定是否調整相關調整基準之檢討價格調整後之成效應定期公告之宣讀完畢請問院會對國民黨團所提附帶決議有無異議沒有異議我們照案通過"},{"start":25970.523,"end":25985.817,"text":"法院會現在處理台灣民眾黨團所提附帶決議共一項請議事議員宣讀附帶決議之內容民眾黨黨團附帶決議為照顧農民基本生活要求農業部因每半年內公佈公糧收購價格調整機制與共識公糧收購價格因每三年浮動檢討"},{"start":25993.764,"end":26013.644,"text":"調整一次以及時反映農業成本互動調整機制應按年檢討價格公式調整與資訊揭露方法及其他應遵行事項之規則由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢請問院會有無異議"},{"start":26016.325,"end":26018.007,"text":"沒有異議,我們決定照案通過。"},{"start":26045.202,"end":26059.781,"text":"主席各位同仁農業在台灣的經濟發展的歷史脈絡中對於促成國家產業的轉型造就當前國家的經濟榮景是功不可沒的"},{"start":26060.362,"end":26069.489,"text":"而我們的政府為了要因應全球化跟自由化以及保障農民退休的福利和減緩農業災損對於農民的衝擊也提出了多項的政策保障我們農民的權益然而公糧的收購價格卻從2011"},{"start":26080.317,"end":26086.205,"text":"至今長達13年不動如山相比基本工資從17,880元已經調漲到27,470元物價指數也增加超過15%"},{"start":26095.698,"end":26118.564,"text":"更匡論人工、肥料、農業、生產對資產成本不斷上漲﹐導致農民耕種成本越來越高﹐權益嚴重受到損害﹐今天立法院三讀通過國民黨立院黨團所提出的《建請農業部調整公糧收購價格的公決案》﹐"},{"start":26119.364,"end":26133.229,"text":"就是要農業部彎下腰來認真傾聽基層民意的心聲予以調整公糧的收購價格來提高農民耕作的利潤本席在這邊強調更要提高公糧收購價格增加了生產力的誘因"},{"start":26139.071,"end":26167.751,"text":"可能會導致價格崩盤的假設不該成為農業部不調漲的藉口政府只要積極的開拓外銷的管道就能夠做到穩定國內的生產稻穀的價格創造政府和農民雙贏的局面最後要呼籲當權者物價近年來漲幅非常的大對於農民而言已經是不可承受之重"},{"start":26168.671,"end":26194.757,"text":"應該要調高公糧的價格謝謝李玉琳委員的發言接下來請登記第二號張家俊委員發言"},{"start":26212.113,"end":26232.479,"text":"首先我要感謝國民黨團提案為農民發聲也感謝民眾黨的支持更要感謝韓院長辛苦主持協商剛剛大家都有看到民進黨講了半天結果他們也不敢表決你們說對不對民進黨只看到政治利益完全沒有為農民考量對不對"},{"start":26243.24,"end":26257.175,"text":"提高公糧收購價格5元只是農民最基本的請求農業部必須遵守決議讓基層的農民得到最基本的一份溫飽的尊嚴"},{"start":26261.058,"end":26279.904,"text":"會繳交公糧的農民都是最基層沒有能力轉型的弱勢農民農業部要鼓勵去做做品牌我們都支持但我們需要照顧這些最辛苦的農民國家政策推行了幾十年為了戰備糧食為了糧食安全"},{"start":26284.545,"end":26285.566,"text":"委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":26301.642,"end":26315.487,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人�"},{"start":26325.291,"end":26333.338,"text":"民生萬物成本都齊漲的時候只有公糧收購價格不漲我想請農業部的官員們你們 我想請問你們 你們敢走到"},{"start":26351.698,"end":26354.323,"text":"謝謝張家俊委員的發言接下來請登記第三號張祺凱委員發言"},{"start":26367.25,"end":26379.028,"text":"我們農民朋友苦苦等了13年的公糧收購今天終於通過每公斤至少要調漲五塊錢了每公斤至少要調漲五塊了"},{"start":26381.588,"end":26400.418,"text":"這是9年底開始柯文哲參選總統同場的政見之一﹐也是台灣民眾黨﹐2015年1月開始﹐不久就提案的重要的政見﹐今天終於落實了﹐印證了柯文哲跟臺灣民眾黨﹐臺灣民眾黨的立院黨團﹐對農民的照顧及支持﹐包括今天市委會在此也要特別強調﹐"},{"start":26407.282,"end":26423.441,"text":"其實這邊每公斤調漲5塊錢苦等了13年只是幫我們最基層、最善良的農民朋友滿足了他們最基礎的生活所需13年苦等13年呱呱最低的小朋友"},{"start":26424.636,"end":26447.162,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人�"},{"start":26450.603,"end":26477.884,"text":"接下來我們要做很多的事情包括最近臺美21世紀的貿易倡議美國期待跟我們談說要進口很多美國的農產品所以我們的稻米如果真的以後可以多一點生產價格可以好一點拜託一下政府應該在外銷包括跟美國談判的時候談一下我們的稻米到外銷到美國去第二個如果真的要轉做政府要多做一些努力更重要的"},{"start":26478.544,"end":26488.479,"text":"以後不要變成是一個看天田不要每年在喊價趕快制定一個公司以後每三年依照物價基本工資幫我們的工糧收購公式化好好照顧我們的農民謝謝"},{"start":26495.455,"end":26511.529,"text":"謝謝張啟凱委員的發言報告委員會每完成陳秀發言已經完畢報告委員會現在我們進入討論事項第34案國家通訊傳播委員會組織法部分條文修正草案報告委員會現在我們處理保留第4條請宣讀條文"},{"start":26515.51,"end":26544.491,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第4條本會制委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿得連任一次並不得再任本會委員由行政院院長提名經立法院統一後任命之行政院院長為提名時應指定一人為主任委員一人為副主任委員但本法第一次修正後第一次任命之委員其中三人之任期為2年本會主任委員特任對外代表本會"},{"start":26545.211,"end":26571.828,"text":"副主任委員職務比較檢任第14職等其餘委員職務比較檢任第13職等本會委員擬具電信、資訊、傳播、法律或財經等專業、學識或實務經驗委員中統一黨籍者不得常委委員總數二分之一本會委員自本法第一次修正後不分屆次委員任滿三個月前應依第一項程序提名任命新任委員"},{"start":26572.668,"end":26588.539,"text":"如因立法院不同意或出缺至委員人數未達足額時﹐行政院院長應於3個月內補足提名﹐第一項規定執行時同意全程序﹐自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起施行"},{"start":26589.961,"end":26604.257,"text":"國民黨黨團再修宣動議第4條本會智委員欽然均為專任任期四年任滿得連任一次也連任者不得再任本會委員由行政院院長提名經立法院統一後任命之"},{"start":26604.858,"end":26631.444,"text":"行政院院長為提名師：決定一人為主任委員：一人為副主任委員本把第一次抽選後：第一次任命之委員其中3人之任期為2年本會主任委員特任：對外代表本會：副主任委員職務比照緊任第14職等：勤務委員職務比照緊任第13職等本會委員應具電信、資訊、傳播：法律或財經等專業學士或學務經驗："},{"start":26634.685,"end":26654.297,"text":"委員中統一黨籍者不得招募委員總數二分之一本會委員自本法第一次修正後不分屆次委員任滿三個月前應依第一項程序提名任命新任委員委員初選時期繼任委員遵任期至原任期屆滿遵任為止"},{"start":26655.177,"end":26670.488,"text":"如因立法院不同意或初宣誓委員人數未達足約時﹐行政院院長應於3個月內補足提名第一項規定之行使同意權程序﹐自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日起施行"},{"start":26672.267,"end":26690.688,"text":"民眾黨黨團修正動議第4條本會政委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿的連任隱私其中一人為主任委員特任對外代表本會一人為副主任委員職務比照檢任第14職等其餘委員職務比照檢任第13職等"},{"start":26692.33,"end":26713.166,"text":"本會議員應具電信、資訊、傳播法律或財訊等專業、學識或實務經驗本會議員自《北法》修正後不分屆次由行政院院長 以下程序任命之一、由立法院推薦9名社會公正人士就由行政院組成提名審查委員會"},{"start":26714.167,"end":26736.94,"text":"二、由行政院提出推薦名單：將由提名審查委員會審查：經全體委員互辦之同意以後：送請行政院院長提名三、就行政院院長提名之人選：經立法院同意後人名之：如因立法院不同意或出缺：是本會委員人數未達足為時：准用請向會定"},{"start":26737.88,"end":26763.632,"text":"行政院長提名時應決定一人為主政委員：一人為副主政委員：第三項第一款之提名審查委員會由陸政委員團：其在立法院所佔席次比例推薦之本會議員任其屆門為能依第三項規定提任時事同出缺本條修正規定之行使同一全程序自公佈日起施行"},{"start":26766.473,"end":26789.754,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第4條本會計委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿德理任一次其中一人為主任委員特任對外代表本會一人為副主任委員職務比照檢任第14職等其餘委員職務比照檢任第13職等本會委員應具電信、資訊、通訊"},{"start":26792.678,"end":26821.389,"text":"電信、資訊、傳播法律或財經等專業學士或實務經驗本會議員自本法修正後不分屆次由行政院院長依下列陳述以任命之一,由立法院推薦9名社會公正人士交由行政院組成提名審查委員會二,由行政院提出推薦名單交由提名審查委員會審查經全體委員過半之統一後,送請行政院院長提名"},{"start":26822.129,"end":26842.559,"text":"三、就行政院院長提名之人選﹐經立法院統一後任命之﹐如因立法院不同意或出缺﹐是本會委員人事未達阻力時﹐准用前項規定行政院長提名時﹐應指定一人為主任委員﹐一人為副主任委員第三項提款之提名審查委員會﹐"},{"start":26843.539,"end":26867.887,"text":"由各政黨團因其在立法院所佔席次比例推薦之本會員任期間滿位能議第三項規定提轉時視同出缺本條促進規定執行時同意全程序自公佈日起施行宣讀完畢報告委員會依協商結論保留條文處理前由各黨團各推派一位"},{"start":26868.871,"end":26885.882,"text":"一續台灣民眾黨團、民進黨團、國民黨團順序輪流發言每人發言時間3分鐘發言完畢之後我們即進行保留條文之處理現在進行各黨團推派之代表發言首先請台灣民眾黨黃國昌總召請發言吳思瑤委員請準備"},{"start":26904.943,"end":26932.214,"text":"院長本院委員過去這幾年號稱要獨立要專業的國家通訊傳播委員會也就是NCC的表現可以說是讓台灣社會失望透頂走到今天我們認為有必要再度冷靜的審視我們現行NCC組織法"},{"start":26935.149,"end":26954.969,"text":"所產生的NCC委員要透過什麼樣子的機制真正能夠確保他的專業性跟獨立性我們同意NCC委員的提名權應該要由行政院院長所來駕以掌握"},{"start":26956.684,"end":26967.799,"text":"我們並不贊成透過政黨比例的方式來產生NCC委員因為這樣只會讓NCC委員更為政治化"},{"start":26968.746,"end":26997.154,"text":"但是在另外一方面我們希望行政院院長他推出他的人選能夠有一個更慎重的審查機制這個更慎重的審查機制可以確保行政院院長送來立法院的名單不會是曾經自己就已經涉入弊案違法洩密的人選"},{"start":26998.396,"end":27017.25,"text":"也不會是某一個有限電視系統大亨透過他的政商影響力塞給行政院院長的人選行政院院長在提這樣人選的時候他知道沒有辦法透過審查委員會的審查"},{"start":27020.114,"end":27041.306,"text":"我們這次所提出來的修正草案的確是參訪所謂公式的模式有文言說以前公式的模式造成了程序非常的冗長沒有錯但是這個程序的冗長跟當初高比例的表決門檻"},{"start":27042.907,"end":27064.718,"text":"以及本來所提出來的人選就不是任高度相關我們在這個審查委員會當中我們並沒有設置高比例的表決門檻我們期待透過這樣的審查委員會讓我們行政院院長所提出來的人選是真正符合專業性"},{"start":27066.159,"end":27090.366,"text":"獨立系而不再是某一個政商媒體集團甚至是有線電視系統大亨所派出來的馬前卒這樣子的修正希望能夠得到各位委員的支持謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員的發言接下來我們請吳思瑤委員發言請翁曉琳委員準備"},{"start":27095.373,"end":27123.56,"text":"主席、各位同仁在審查NCC組織法修正案之前應當要試著替NCC的業務執掌去汙名化、去政治化我相信朝野的立委及社會大眾卸下有色的眼鏡不要把NCC視為高度政治性的機關剛剛民眾黨的代表說要捍衛NCC的專業性、獨立性但是"},{"start":27125.055,"end":27141.145,"text":"難道就是透過一個政黨比例產生審查會的機制就能夠捍衛它的專業性或獨立性嗎又或者這不就是大剌剌的讓政治政黨的黑手介入NCC的人事同意權嗎不過是轉了個彎但是殊途同歸"},{"start":27147.029,"end":27164.981,"text":"事實上NCC每年辦理4到6萬件的民生業務不管是電信網路基地台的審驗、消防警用電台、廣播電台、建築物電信設備、國內外電信設備的驗證、發照等等這些都攸關人民的生活"},{"start":27165.862,"end":27183.742,"text":"如果國會遲遲延宕了NCC的人事同意權或是透過修正組織法的方式設下構成了NCC正常運作的層層阻礙對於人民的日常生活將發生巨大的影響"},{"start":27185.143,"end":27200.528,"text":"NCC的委員名單4月30就送達立法院了：到今天是第78天：非常遺憾在在野黨的阻礙之下程序委員會院會就擋了9次：到上週五才復為審查"},{"start":27202.689,"end":27217.444,"text":"組織法的部分雖然國民黨已經撤回他們的違憲版本但是民眾黨以公式的模式要產生新任委員我要再說一次本質都是一樣都可能有違憲之餘"},{"start":27219.346,"end":27235.714,"text":"公共電視第5屆董事嚴當了968天第7屆嚴當了966天民眾黨黃國昌委員說他們的版本沒有以高比例的表決門檻所以不會發生這種嚴當產生NCC委員的阻礙誰能負責"},{"start":27240.916,"end":27265.446,"text":"誰能保證公共電視慘痛的教訓NCC要重蹈覆轍嗎又譬如說國民黨團所提的修正動議限制了NCC委員的連任限制以及對於現在穩定NCC運作的這個過渡條款我們都認為應當維持原案不應採行這個修法的版本"},{"start":27266.326,"end":27275.309,"text":"立委再大也不能比憲法大再怎麼對NCC有意見也不應當無限上綱民進黨認為應當維持現行條文不予修訂謝謝"},{"start":27300.165,"end":27327.339,"text":"主席以及各位委員大家好本席代表國民黨黨團向各位說明這次NCC組織法第4條的修正理由NCC作為獨立機關本來就應該要排除上級機關對具體個案的指揮監督讓NCC有更多不受政治干擾依專業自主決定的空間如此才能確保通訊傳播自由並且建立人民對通傳會公平合理的信賴"},{"start":27328.439,"end":27351.176,"text":"但是從中天新聞台不予換照案、禁電視的深射案以及近來的王逸川手機定位泄露各自的事件當中可知道社會大眾其實對於NCC委員的立場偏頗受到政治力的操縱以及NCC功能不彰的情形多所批評嚴重質疑NCC委員的公正獨立性"},{"start":27352.498,"end":27372.934,"text":"為了確保NCC委員的超然中立本次修法經過多方整合之後主要還是在修正NCC委員的任期相關規定以防止任何NCC委員在政府當中長期掌握權力避免NCC委員濫權、集權而造成的擴權"},{"start":27374.275,"end":27395.882,"text":"同時這項修正規定也有助於幫NCC注入活水﹐讓新委員有更多的發揮﹐帶來更多的新的監理氣象首先本條修正通傳會委員﹐未來僅能夠連任一次﹐並且不得再任﹐如果一個委員已經任滿了8年﹐就不應該再任﹐以免他長期掌控和前置機關的運作"},{"start":27397.918,"end":27412.254,"text":"其次為了避免NCC委員的任期計算混亂本條也參考公平會處置法的修正規定若NCC委員出缺的時候NCC繼任委員的任期應該只能夠做到原任任期屆滿為止"},{"start":27413.695,"end":27427.551,"text":"第三為了避免委員出缺過久新增的規定要求行政院院長應該要在三個月內補足委員的提名最後就廢除現任委員在新任委員沒有上任之前可以自動延任的規定"},{"start":27428.632,"end":27456.779,"text":"眾委已經確定離職卸任的委員不僅不適合在新委員未上任前的空窗期做成任何的處分決定而且這些要卸任的委員沒有再經過立法院同意就繼續延任也是違反民主原則的綜合上面所述本次修法是希望能夠讓NCC真正符合民主專業多元並且成為真正的獨立機關希望各位委員能夠大力支持本次的修正謝謝"},{"start":27461.228,"end":27462.256,"text":"謝謝翁小林委員的發言"},{"start":27463.564,"end":27490.481,"text":"報言會現在我們各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢我們現在依序進行表決如果其中有任何一案通過我們就不再處理其他案報言會我們現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":27574.158,"end":27595.394,"text":"本院會初席委員101位贊成51位反對50位贊成者多數本院會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":27678.271,"end":27684.161,"text":"報告委員會宣布重複表決結果出席委員103位贊成52位反對51位贊成者多數"},{"start":27690.578,"end":27709.289,"text":"多數通過報院會現有謝依鳳委員聲明剛才表決與國民黨團一致報院會現有張雅玲委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報院會全案經過二讀現有國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們現在請宣讀經過二讀之條文"},{"start":27720.472,"end":27746.591,"text":"第4條本會智委員7人均為專任任期4年任滿得離任1次已連任者不得再任本會委員由行政院院長提名經立法院同意後任命之行政院院長為提名時應指定一人為主任委員一人為副主任委員但本法第一次修正後第一次任命之委員其中3人之任期為2年"},{"start":27748.112,"end":27769.933,"text":"本會主任委員特任對外代表本會副主任委員職務比照檢認第14職等其餘委員職務比照檢認第13職等本會委員應具電信、資訊、傳播法律或財軍等專業學士或實務經驗委員中統一黨籍者不得超過委員總數二分之一"},{"start":27770.573,"end":27795.291,"text":"本院委員自本法第一次修法後不分屆次委員任滿3個月前應依第一項程序提名任命新任委員委員出缺時其繼任委員之任期至原任期屆滿之日為止如因立法院不同意或出缺至委員人數未達足額時行政院院長應於3個月內補足提名"},{"start":27796.392,"end":27804.058,"text":"第一項規定之行使統一權程序自立法院第7屆立法委員就職日期施行宣讀完畢"},{"start":27825.106,"end":27830.476,"text":"現在我們要處理審查會所作之附帶決議請議事人員宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":27833.646,"end":27854.086,"text":"要求113年7月任期屆滿之原任委員應比照陳耀祥主任委員公開對外宣誓除不再接受行政院提名續任外若行政院與原任委員任期屆滿前未能依規定提任時亦不再接受原任主動辭職以示負責選讀完畢"},{"start":27857.831,"end":27869.709,"text":"報告委員會依協商結論我們照案通過報告委員會我們現在完成立法程序後發言首先請登記第一位洪孟凱委員發言葉元之委員請準備"},{"start":27881.701,"end":27904.91,"text":"主席各位同仁我們剛剛通過NCC組織法第4條的修法我想在這個修法的過程裡面我們就是捍衛公平性、公正性以及公開性在這個修法裡面有三大重點第一公正性我們要求NCC的委員連任以一次為限以連任者不得在任"},{"start":27905.51,"end":27929.69,"text":"而公平性則是當委員有出缺時繼任委員的任期至原任期屆滿為止不得延用以及第三公開性行政院院長應該在三個月內補足相關的提名所以我想這跟現行的條文其實大致方向一致但是我們把現行條文有所不足之處給補齊"},{"start":27931.691,"end":27956.796,"text":"剛剛有執政黨的委員也在大體廣泛討論的時候有提到這一次NCC的委員名單我們再一次強調其實NCC的委員名單裡面4月30號以前是由陳建仁前院長提出當時我們就說責任政治應該要由新任的行政院長來提但是新任的行政院長5月20號上任之後他也沒有參與相關的提名"},{"start":27957.276,"end":27972.284,"text":"在5月31號總質詢時候要求行政院長對其提名的委員來做確認當時佐隆太子講了會儘快提出名單一直到7月9號一個半月過去了佐隆太才願意為"},{"start":27973.685,"end":27991.741,"text":"陳建仁前院長提的名單來做背書也因此我們要說在這一次的NCC委員提名的時候嚴當的時間全都是由行政院這邊來嚴當立法部門並沒有任何的嚴當我們也在上一次院會的時候就已經讓他進入了委員會能夠來做討論"},{"start":27993.482,"end":28004.269,"text":"所以再次強調今天通過的第4條就是修正過去的不足之處讓公平性、公正性、公開性能夠讓NCC的提名更加嚴謹謝謝"},{"start":28023.919,"end":28042.698,"text":"主席各位同仁我們今天通過這個法律是讓舊有的NCC委員即便是沒有新任委員產生一樣不能延任本席認為這是一個非常公平的做法因為我們國家其他機關的委員包括像是大法官包括監察委員"},{"start":28043.559,"end":28072.198,"text":"即便是新的提名的候選人沒有經過立法院同意通通舊的都沒有延任唯有NCC委員在既有的法律是可以延任的難道NCC委員我不知道為什麼他的位階是高於大法官跟監察委員這件事情我是非常不清楚第二個如果我們可以保障舊有的委員可以不斷的延任下去那舊有的委員做得不好他還可以繼續做這也是一件很奇怪的事"},{"start":28072.978,"end":28095.109,"text":"那我們國民黨說NCC做得不好民進黨會說我們有偏見我就講民進黨也對NCC委員抱有期望譬如說當自由時報報導中共有介入政論節目的時候隔天民進黨的立委是說中共介入政論節目而藍白卻阻擋NCC的立法"},{"start":28096.009,"end":28116.459,"text":"當時他們是把這件事情把NCC跟調查中共介入責任節目畫上一個等號認為這個責任就是NCC的可是經過了這麼多個禮拜我們看到NCC對於這個事情完全沒有任何動作只有發文給工學會問他們有沒有會員有類似的狀況"},{"start":28117.279,"end":28135.878,"text":"那沒有會員承認他們的調查就此結束看得出來NCC現任委員也非常不符合民進黨的期望可是如果沒有修這個法的話這些委員就可以無止盡的延任下去因此卓榮泰院長也沒有很積極的跟立法院溝通溝通四個新的人選為什麼"},{"start":28137.279,"end":28159.155,"text":"因為他心裡還有陳耀祥這個寶阿他認為即便新的沒有經過立法院同意陳耀祥還可以繼續延任阿這就是他打算嘛所以通過這個法可以讓立法院...謝謝葉元志委員的發言接下來我們請登記第三號鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":28163.151,"end":28165.657,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":28170.814,"end":28195.449,"text":"主席在同委員先進剛剛聽了我們葉元智委員的說明其實忽略了事實上在我國行政院三個獨立機關當中公平教育委員會跟NCC委員一樣都有這樣的一個不斷電的裝置就是說現任委員借滿錢新任委員未產生時由現任委員繼續延任"},{"start":28197.24,"end":28213.809,"text":"為什麼一個獨立機關要有這樣的機制呢其實如果仔細看公民教育委員會裡面還有一個設計就是一個半半交錯的任期制什麼叫做半半交錯任期制每次公平會跟NCC都有兩年有半數委員屆滿"},{"start":28215.35,"end":28232.896,"text":"因此經驗得以傳承為什麼這兩個獨立機關這麼重視他的經驗傳承正是因為他的性質有延續不可中斷性國民教育委員會負責我國產業秩序的重財所以七位委員非常重要"},{"start":28233.556,"end":28256.153,"text":"在新任委員未到任之前未完成提任程序之前原任委員延續他的工作這就是原來公平教育委員的設計NCC也是比照這個原理可能誤以為這個獨立機關所謂的所謂的延任條款會造成的把持其實在這次的修正當中國民黨在這次的修正當中國民黨在這次的修正當中國民黨在這次的修正當中有提出了一些進步的更好的設計我們也予以支持"},{"start":28256.633,"end":28284.185,"text":"但是很可惜的一個對於獨立機關它的獨立性的保障以及信念傳承的設計本來就應該是越求越好但是把這個延任的設計拿掉之後會造成未來只要有獨立機關的提名未能順利的時候這個獨立機關所負責的業務就會因此而中斷所以在這裡我們對於NCC第4條第5項被因為這樣的政治量考量而予取消未來造成NCC的運作造成國家相關產業的中挫"},{"start":28285.245,"end":28291.954,"text":"我們期期與而不可也希望未來能夠持續的以更進步的修法來取代來挽回以上說明"},{"start":28304.165,"end":28319.484,"text":"主席各位同仁在探討NCC委員的產生包括行政部門的任命權以及立法院行使同意權我們不得不回到大法官解釋第613號的規範其中有一段我想分享給大家"},{"start":28320.305,"end":28337.331,"text":"基於權力分立原則行使立法權之立法院對行政院有關通傳會委員之人事決定權故非不能施以一定限制以為制衡為制衡仍有其界限除不能抵觸憲法明白規定外亦不能將人事決定權予以實質剝奪或進行取代之"},{"start":28338.271,"end":28360.661,"text":"就是這個613號的釋字案我們在委員會在朝野協商那透過充分的論述、討論、對話終於阻絕了國民黨原始要以政黨比例來提名委員的任命乃至於剛剛民眾黨團的公式模式沒有在這次修法入法我們予以肯定我們擋下了違憲的條文"},{"start":28362.122,"end":28376.713,"text":"但是呢 剛剛所通過的國民黨的修正動議第一項規定通常會的委員他的連任限制以及刪除第五項有關嚴任的規定事實上都對於NCC的職權行使造成焊隔"},{"start":28377.814,"end":28400.099,"text":"NCC守重於通訊傳播產業監理的經驗傳承：實在不一定定在任的限制：可以擔任NCC委員的：都是長期在相關領域：有相當長才：有業界：有學術的基底：但是因此來限制了他們的延任：這是非常不智：也相當可惜"},{"start":28400.879,"end":28428.168,"text":"至於過度的條款：絕非在野黨所解釋的萬年條款：是為了基於穩定NCC的日常運作：來重視台灣的通訊的民生：所以說：這一次的修法非常遺憾：但是未來：希望在野黨如他們所說的：不再阻絕NCC的人事同意權：希望能夠履行我們立法委員應付的職責：讓NCC的委員能夠完成投票："},{"start":28434.566,"end":28457.799,"text":"謝謝吳思堯委員的發言報告委員會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會我們進入討論事項第35案本院委員翁曉琳等人建請院會決議將郭國文委員移送紀律委員會議案報告委員會本案應上代協商做以下決議協商後再行處理"},{"start":28459.67,"end":28478.184,"text":"報告委員會我們進入討論事項第41案全民健康保險法第62條條文修正草案本案經本次會議決議協商後提出本次會議處理報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":28481.843,"end":28499.929,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月5日星期五下午10時31分113年7月15日星期一下午30時10分地點藝廠三樓會議室紅樓302會議室協商主題全民健康保險法修正草案協商結論一第62條維持現行條文"},{"start":28503.47,"end":28522.441,"text":"並主決議如附件二、審查會保留三項附帶決議不予出力三、新增附帶決議四項通過如附件協商主持人韓國瑜將啟程協商代表柯建民、吳思瑤、莊瑞雄、傅坤祺、徐宇貞、王玉敏、王振旭、洪孟凱、廖偉祥"},{"start":28524.449,"end":28537.874,"text":"陳瑩、黃國昌、林思敏、邱振軍、黃珊珊、林月琴、劉建國、劉許廷、吳春城、陳昭芝、蘇清泉、羅志強、張志倫、張家俊、徐巧欣、盧憲毅、陳金威、楊瓊怡、徐欣穎、羅廷偉、鄭振前、蘇巧慧"},{"start":28548.48,"end":28553.703,"text":"請問院會對以上協商結論有意義?沒有意義,我們本案逐條討論時,僅因協商結論處理。全民健康保險法第62條維持現行條文,並通過決議,請議事人員宣讀決議內容。"},{"start":28573.702,"end":28589.031,"text":"為改善醫療環境維護醫事人員專業權益衛生福利部應進行健保改革具體措施於114年6月30日前達到平均點值1.0.95元以維護全國醫事人員權益宣讀完畢"},{"start":28597.908,"end":28623.478,"text":"委員會本案作以下決議全民健康保險法第62條維持現行條文不予修正並通過決議為改善醫療環境維護醫事人員專業權益衛生福利部應進行健保改革具體措施於114年6月30日前達到平均點值1.0.95元"},{"start":28626.823,"end":28637.409,"text":"以維護全國醫事人員權益報告委員會現在我們處理附帶決議審查會原附帶決議三項一協商結論均不予處理繼續處理黨團協商所作之附帶決議共四項請醫事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容附帶決議一"},{"start":28651.277,"end":28676.606,"text":"要求行政院應召開跨部會醫療改革會議提出具體改善方案及相對應之期程以回應國人的期盼並落實本次修法的意旨二要求衛福部針對指示要退出健保給付擬定時程表三個月內提交該報告至立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會審議三"},{"start":28678.854,"end":28702.55,"text":"要求衛生福利部應認定或修訂相關法規規範健保點值保障之範疇應優先用於提升醫事人員之薪酬待遇與落實本次修法之意旨四、要求衛生福利部應借鑒日本之做法一年內制定要價調整機制並與醫業界溝通"},{"start":28707.884,"end":28710.728,"text":"逐步達成合理要價宣讀完畢國民黨黨團附帶決議"},{"start":28726.041,"end":28753.291,"text":"政府應盡速持續滾動式檢討以積極回應民意往朝向一點議員的目標邁進確保全國醫事人員的權益宣讀完畢報告委員會請問有無異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過報告委員會現在完成程序和發言請登記第一號蘇青前委員發言陳昭之委員請準備"},{"start":28776.209,"end":28795.994,"text":"主席、各位同仁還有媒體朋友大家好對於今天健保法的修法沒有成功我個人是非常的失望那用主決議跟附帶決議這到底有多少效力我都打問號醫界也打問號"},{"start":28797.543,"end":28816.716,"text":"我們健保法裡面的總額制度已經實施了22年22年尤其是最近15年越來越嚴重我請問你們全民健保的滿意度是79.3%醫護人員的滿意度只有三成"},{"start":28821.564,"end":28841.519,"text":"有這個制度一直壓榨一直剝削一直踐踏一直蹂躪所有的醫護人員然後來迎合政府的光彩跑到WHA跑到瑞士在那邊吹牛台灣can help台灣沒有辦法can help現在人點滴都要need help"},{"start":28842.529,"end":28871.436,"text":"所以建保法尤其裡面的總額這三條是該道要整修要好好的徹底檢討的時候我們一些大公家醫院的院長也跑出來說一點一塊錢會衝量這是胡說八道公家醫院它的土地它的醫院的建築幾百億都是公家拿錢出來蓋每一年還有公務預算公務人員的補貼等等"},{"start":28872.791,"end":28896.684,"text":"施仁醫院、社團法人醫院﹐自己要買地、自己要買基礎﹐自己要傳解析﹐還有付薪水﹐還有更新設備﹐他們拿的健保的費用﹐跟公家醫院是一樣﹐所以最沒有立場講點責任﹐就是臺大跟榮總﹐這個是我個人的看法﹐事實上也是這樣﹐所以﹐給醫務人員一條深路﹐大家一起加油﹐謝謝"},{"start":28902.605,"end":28908.588,"text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員發言接下來請登記第二號陳昭芝委員發言請王振旭委員準備"},{"start":28916.018,"end":28931.643,"text":"主席、各位同仁本黨科主席在競選的時候確實曾經提過希望能夠讓健保點值提高到至少0.95%以上這是因為全球的醫療快速進步但是台灣長期對健康投資不足導致面臨財務困境醫療人員的專業服務費不足"},{"start":28937.505,"end":28963.948,"text":"醫療人員大量的流失新藥新科技的引進很不順利甚至這個健康醫療指標都不斷的落後臨近國家跟先進國家我在數次的協商會議中也指出健保資源的承受確實能力有限保障這個急重男悍症保障每個家庭甚至每一個人一生無法避免的這個重大疾病避免因病而平"},{"start":28964.588,"end":28982.78,"text":"這才是社會保險的主要精神然後我也要強調整個醫療的服務要仰賴各個角色包括醫療院所、醫療服務提供者以及投資及帶領新藥新科技研發的廠商跟學者都是缺一不可必須共存共好"},{"start":28983.22,"end":28998.265,"text":"民眾黨在這一次的修法中提出幾項配套措施﹐包括指示要依法退出健保﹐讓民眾適度地減少就醫的次數﹐妥善地處理過去因為專業不足而造成對藥價差的依賴﹐讓醫療人員能夠正正當當地賺取他們應有的收入﹐讓醫療院所營養有一定比例供應給改善同仁﹐由於護理師薪資待遇﹐"},{"start":29008.869,"end":29033.1,"text":"那感謝各黨三長及委員們接受我們的主張以這個主決議跟附帶決議來處理我也鄭重要求衛福部能夠正式醫療的這個體系重新檢視例如包括醫療分級重新檢視是否要這麼多的醫學中心跟擴增病床確保醫療品質也算妥善的處理這個醫療資源的分配希望能夠保障醫療品質讓健保永續也達成賴總統對於健康台灣的期待"},{"start":29038.542,"end":29038.742,"text":"主席"},{"start":29059.619,"end":29072.76,"text":"各位委員同仁大家好有關《健保法》第12條修正草案經過各黨團數個月來的密切的討論、審查、協商終於在今天的院會裡提出議程來處理"},{"start":29074.827,"end":29094.374,"text":"經過這兩天密集的協商最後大家一致的認為第62條應該要維持現行的條文以主決議的方式來代替原先的修法明定要求衛福部應進行健保的改革並於明年中達平均點值1.0.95元"},{"start":29097.811,"end":29114.78,"text":"事實上昨日協商的時候衛福部邱部長也具體的承諾保證明年度的點值一定達到0.9%以上甚至可以更高此外已經清點應該由公務預算支出了一共17項"},{"start":29117.073,"end":29135.181,"text":"總費用約為300億元：花3年的時間陸續轉由公務預算來支應藉以提升健保點值：本席認為這代表衛福部重視改善點值現況的態度：也說明了執政黨已經積極地拿出各種具體的辦法應應各界對於健保現況的訴求"},{"start":29137.422,"end":29160.256,"text":"過去這段時間以來許多一屆的代表其實也針對保障點子1.1元表達憂心擔心弱勢保障點子可能因為部分院所充量服務而造成總額制度的名存實亡這對於健保的永續真的是一個很大的風險那賴總統今日也出席活動也表示打破健保總額制度可能增加醫療浪費與民眾"},{"start":29162.017,"end":29180.829,"text":"保費的負擔他認為簡單的方法不一定是最好的方法這就是包含衛福部以及民進黨過去這段時間以來提醒保障點子入法可能會面臨未來的風險一方面要感謝在野黨願意退讓維持條文"},{"start":29196.419,"end":29199.287,"text":"謝謝王振旭委員發言接下來請登記第4號陳金輝委員發言請吳思瑤委員準備"},{"start":29208.154,"end":29230.206,"text":"各位國人守護人民健康的基層醫護夥伴大家好健保點值打折就是人民健康打折經過好幾個月不斷爭取朝野協商我們終於達成協議要求政府必須在114年6月30號以前達到健保點值平均1.0.95元以維護全國醫護人員的權益促進全國人民健康"},{"start":29236.95,"end":29256.389,"text":"其實本席從來沒想過這種基礎保障人民健康權醫護工作權跟尊嚴的議案不是政府的職責怎麼會需要面臨這麼大的困難我覺得我們國民黨有義務要向大家把朝野協商的風波真相揭露"},{"start":29257.21,"end":29285.988,"text":"昨天我們在草野協商痛訴醫護地域的慘況有病患4天前在急診因為缺病床必須要坐在輪椅上接受電擊連執政黨委員都坦承自己收到沒有病床的陳情今年空前的多因此韓院長非常認真遊走於各黨團之間做溝通協調就是因為此案涉及全體的國民健康"},{"start":29286.628,"end":29313.029,"text":"最不希望看到的就是協商破局好不容易我們決定退讓以主決議的方式來處理連文字都是邱泰仁部長一筆一畫寫下來的結果民進黨團不簽就是不簽一直堅持在決議上用建請兩個字建請根本沒有法律效力說穿了沒有效果就是一張芭樂票對不對"},{"start":29315.714,"end":29331.867,"text":"從2015年蔡前總統承諾健保改革提高點值到2016年邱太元委員質詢主席總長應該取消總額再到2018年邱太元委員林靜儀委員提案保障點值1.1元"},{"start":29356.776,"end":29359.03,"text":"謝謝陳清輝委員發言 接下來請吳思瑤委員發言"},{"start":29363.066,"end":29390.701,"text":"主席、各位同仁健保是台灣的驕傲國人的滿意度高達89.7%愛知就不要害知我用幾個數字來以正視聽2003年我們的健保支出是3000億到2024年國家不斷的投資健保支出來到8700億我們再比一比蔡英文執政跟馬英九執政"},{"start":29392.261,"end":29421.321,"text":"2015年馬英九政府對於健保的支出是5908億蔡英文卸任前2023年來到8364億成長了41%也就是蔡英文的任內健保的成長年平均是4.7%相對於馬英九執政只有4.2%所以民進黨重視全民健康維持健保制度的穩健跟高品質的運作是我們的職責而我們也做到了"},{"start":29422.061,"end":29436.234,"text":"我們都支持改良醫護工作環境民進黨都支持增加健康跟醫療的投資同樣的我們會全力來投入改革健保的制度但是保障點直入法是最好的方式嗎"},{"start":29437.435,"end":29453.582,"text":"我們都希望他是強心針但可能是下錯藥因為典值入法實質取消了總額制度讓健保的制度崩潰了因為健保典值入法讓健保的財務沒有辦法控制沒有辦法預估更不要說他贊成國家財政7705億到1155億的支出更甚至這個猛藥會造成健保的"},{"start":29464.487,"end":29487.707,"text":"強者越強弱者恆弱城鄉差距的失衡更可能造成我們的健保財務難以支出會對人民的荷包開刀要調漲健保費所以沒有入法我們用主決議的方式給衛福部機會相信會在行政的措施裡頭做到國人的期待增加健康的投資維持健保的制度運行謝謝"},{"start":29491.595,"end":29512.852,"text":"謝謝吳石瑤委員的發言報告委員會各黨團派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會現在我們進入討論事項第42案中華民國刑法部分條文修正草案本案經本次會議決議協商後提出本次會議處理報告委員會本案現已完成協商請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":29516.874,"end":29528.46,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間113年7月16日星期二上午9時40分地點紅樓302會議室協商主題中華民國刑法部分條文修正查案"},{"start":29530.052,"end":29556.825,"text":"寫商結論一、第77條不予修正維持現行條文二、增訂第272條之一及第286條之一均不予增訂三、第286條照寫商內容通過相如附件寫商主持人韓國瑜將啟程寫商代表傅坤祺、廖偉祥、吳思瑤、林月琴、柯建銘、林思銘、張祺凱"},{"start":29558.911,"end":29578.317,"text":"徐宇珍、徐巧欣、鍾嘉斌、羅廷瑋、黃孟楷、黃國昌、黃森翰、楊瓊英、劉許廷、盧憲伊、黃建豪、黃森翰、楊瓊英、沈伯陽、莊瑞雄、邱振軍、鄭振淺、黃珊珊、徐欣穎、吳淳澄宣讀完畢請問議員會對以上協商結論有無異議"},{"start":29582.922,"end":29585.025,"text":"我們本案逐條討論時進行協商結論處理中華民國憲法第77條維持現行條文第272條之一不予增訂請宣讀第286條"},{"start":29596.721,"end":29624.358,"text":"第286條對於未滿18歲之人施以凌虐或以他法﹐所以妨礙其身心之健全或發育者﹐處6月以上5年下有期徒刑﹐意圖盈利而犯前項征稅者﹐處5年以上有期徒刑﹐得併科300萬元下罰金﹐犯丁項征稅因而致人與死者﹐處無期徒刑或10年以上有期徒刑﹐致重傷者﹐處5年以上12年以下有期徒刑﹐"},{"start":29624.958,"end":29642.354,"text":"犯第二項之罪因而致人與死者處無期徒刑或12年以上有期徒刑至重傷者處10年以上有期徒刑對於未滿7歲之人犯前四項之罪者依依各該項是規定加重其刑至二分之一宣讀完畢"},{"start":29644.397,"end":29654.34,"text":"第286條照協商條文通過第286條之一不予增訂報告院會全案經過二讀現有國民黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議好請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":29663.803,"end":29690.902,"text":"第286條對於未滿18歲之人是以凌虐或以他法足以防害其身心之健全或發育者處6月以上5年以上有期徒刑意圖營利而犯前項之罪者處5年以上有期徒刑得併科300萬元相罰金犯第一項之罪因而致人與死者處無期徒刑或10年以上有期徒刑至重傷者處5年以上12年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":29691.522,"end":29714.048,"text":"犯第二項之罪因而致人與死者處無期徒刑或十二年以上有期徒刑致重傷者處十年以上有期徒刑對於未滿七歲之人犯前四項之罪者依各該項時規定加重起刑至二分之一宣讀完畢報院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正"},{"start":29715.25,"end":29738.086,"text":"沒文字修正我們決議中華民國刑法第286條條文修正通過報言會我們現在進行完成立法程序之發言首先我們請登記第一號黃建豪委員發言請曲曉欣委員準備"},{"start":29745.814,"end":29761.343,"text":"主席、各位委員大家好感謝各界努力我們今天終於三讀修正通過刑法286條針對虐待7歲以下兒童的加重刑期條文加重二分之一這個結果雖然不滿意"},{"start":29762.063,"end":29779.124,"text":"但至少有進步我想近年台灣各地發生了多起兒虐、校園霸凌等社會的矚目案件兩年前我看到一個新聞有一個女童被繼父虐待長期哀惡8歲的時候她體重只有13公斤而且全身傷痕"},{"start":29779.865,"end":29805.439,"text":"雖然最後有依刑法286條防害兒童發育罪來起訴但就是因為這個286防害兒童發育罪最重本刑只有5年而且無法加重期刑所以最後這個個案這個加害者最後只被判了4年2個月連法官都在判決書寫下這個是立法瑕疵這是我們立法委員不盡責是我們立法委員的怠惰"},{"start":29805.919,"end":29829.115,"text":"而這個刑法286條正是本席在這個會期最早完成修法連署提案的委員我們不只回應社會期待也回應了法官的審判那這次的修法經過各黨與司法院法務部協商的結果我們比照了刑法傷害罪及兒童法112條精神我們列入了七歲以下加重期刑二分之一畢竟我想虐待一個"},{"start":29829.855,"end":29855.559,"text":"高中生跟虐待一個學歷前的兒童不管從法律上或社會情感上適用同一種刑度是不合理的事所以我們今天第一步先來修正這個不合理我想這是一個基於法理共識覺先求有我們再求好的修法但是身為一個兩歲女兒的父親我認為對於兒童施虐本身就是罪無可赦尤其是虐童致死"},{"start":29856.319,"end":29878.255,"text":"這個施暴過程無論是故意的或是過失我想都讓兒童面臨難以承受而且無可挽回的傷痛也是國家的重大損失這樣的加害者其實我個人認為死刑並不為過這才是社會多數的聲譽期待所以希望為了修法我們能夠更加回應多數基層民眾的心聲謝謝"},{"start":29881.206,"end":29881.226,"text":"討論事項"},{"start":29900.419,"end":29927.81,"text":"發生了在去年12月的時候發生了保姆虐死孩童一案這一對保姆的姊妹呢對於年僅1歲的男童凱凱施虐致死全國嘩然大多數的民眾對於立法院希望看到的要求是對於未成年未滿7歲的孩子其實是希望能夠屬於死刑或是無期徒刑的"},{"start":29928.77,"end":29953.426,"text":"這也是本席在提案的時候的主張但是呢不管是在修法的體力或者是我們在黨團的協商當中我們都還是希望能夠再進一步所以最後的這個協商結論裡面我們呢通過了是對於未滿7歲之人犯前四項罪者依各項規定加重其刑的二分之一"},{"start":29954.526,"end":29973.031,"text":"加重刑期的二分之一我不清楚國人認為夠或不夠但是我知道當凱凱案發生的時候群眾嘩然都認為這樣子霸凌傷害孩子的兇手應該要判他們死刑或是無期徒刑"},{"start":29973.991,"end":29996.761,"text":"所以我當然也希望通過了這樣的草案之後能夠有惡毒的效果我們不要再看到下一個凱凱不要再看到下一個被霸凌致死的幼童如果還有這樣子的情況再發生的話我想這是一個開始這是一個往前的一步但是如果未來還繼續發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":29999.162,"end":30018.564,"text":"沒有辦法只用刑期加重二分之一來威嚇這些惡徒的話我相信未來在立法院我們還會繼續的來修法來保障兒童的權益不讓他們因為虐待而致死保障我們的孩子中華民國的孩子們謝謝"},{"start":30024.21,"end":30030.777,"text":"謝謝曲巧欣委員的發言接下來請登記第3號沈伯陽委員發言請黃國昌委員準備"},{"start":30043.412,"end":30068.975,"text":"好 謝謝主席那這一個關於286條這個修正當然很多人會提到最近這一個虐童的案件但我還是要這個再次呼籲就是虐童相關的案件有很多的行政措施他其實可以在第一步的時候就預防讓這件事情不要發生不管是地方政府的一個審查的機制然後還是說機構本身的審查機制這其實無名是更為重要"},{"start":30069.475,"end":30085.769,"text":"我們不希望是等到事情發生以後然後用重刑當然用重刑的確可能有威嚇的效果但很明顯的是從這幾次的修法看來它的邊際效益會越來越低但是在這邊還是要講就是專於這次286修法的一個過程"},{"start":30087.13,"end":30109.806,"text":"這個過程當中提出了很多各式各樣的刑度那這些刑度很多跟刑法的立法令有很多不合的地方那希望以後不會再有一些這些爭論但是286條本身就有一個很大的疑義是在於說當時277跟286一同在修正的時候277提高的比較多286提高的比較少那就會形成一個詭異的現象"},{"start":30111.067,"end":30140.046,"text":"因為如果我直接直接做傷害我會因為兒少法112條加重二分之一我用286的時候沒有辦法直接做加重因為它是一個特別規定但它如果是一個特別規定那你直接做傷害刑度高286即使按照這一次因為它的法定型沒有修正我們只有針對未滿7歲的加重所以我今天在協商的時候有講得很清楚它是一個比較快速大概我們因為必須要先提高刑度來做一個威嚇可能不得已的做法"},{"start":30140.606,"end":30163.053,"text":"但是在未來如果真的要預防或者說真的要以橫平性跟比例原則來講的話其實還是應該要回到第一項跟第二項去研擬到底凌虐跟傷害的不同在哪裡因為畢竟凌虐不一定會造成傷害那用這樣的一個方式呢才更能夠反映目前台灣社會的現狀也才能夠真正預防未來事件的發生謝謝"},{"start":30166.97,"end":30172.353,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言接下來請黃國昭委員發言請鐘嘉斌委員準備院長本院委員"},{"start":30191.11,"end":30215.283,"text":"當初新法在修正286條的時候我相信所有立法委員心裡面都想的是我們要對於未滿18歲的人提高對他的保護加重對他進行凌虐的處罰可是沒有想到286條在我們實務上面實際的運作上事實上已經被架空了"},{"start":30215.933,"end":30241.28,"text":"因為當傷害罪透過俄哨法112條加重期刑二分之一以後在法定刑的比較上面286條幾乎沒有適用的可能性最高法院依照想像競合從一重處斷直接適用了刑法277條的普通傷害罪跟俄哨法112條的加重期刑"},{"start":30243.709,"end":30255.047,"text":"這個問題出現在實務上面反映出了我們對於兒少保護這件事情的重要性在立法上面的確有在加強的必要"},{"start":30256.107,"end":30276.697,"text":"我也感謝看到了這個問題當初非常多的提案委員他們的用心他們對於民意的反應勇敢的提出了這個修正草案在最後修正的時候我們強化了對未滿7歲的人犯前四項的罪"},{"start":30277.597,"end":30301.874,"text":"他們的處罰就是希望對於沒有辦法保護自己的幼兒們能夠透過刑法所產生的硬報以及特別預防希望能夠加深對他們的保障這樣的修法希望讓台灣未來兒虐的事件能夠急劇減少的發生謝謝"},{"start":30306.285,"end":30310.33,"text":"謝謝黃國昌委員的發言 接下來請登記第5號鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":30318.891,"end":30345.505,"text":"主席在場委員先進對於兒少的保護是個人政府不分黨派共同的願望也是我們努力的目標其實在兒少的保護上刑法是最後手段我們都知道誠如前面幾位委員所說的在預防、阻卻、嚴懲跟嚇阻上我們必須在每一個階段都必須嚴密把關事實上對於兒少的保護我們有賴行政機關、相關主管機關在預防上做好嚴密的防護"},{"start":30346.545,"end":30371.965,"text":"然而我們也必須要求行政機關實時維持高度警覺對已經發生兒少凌虐案能夠及時加以發覺然後呢及時加以嚇阻避免不幸的發生然而當事件已經造成了我們需要有效的法令做出迅速的審判然後對它進行嚴懲那目前社會各界都對於刑法286條認為呢在適用上沒有辦法像傷害罪277條以及我們"},{"start":30374.126,"end":30400.785,"text":"《兒少法》第112條的加重期刑的方式結合來處理因此這一次我們刑法286條的一個修正我們各黨派各黨團都共同的來努力我們共同的修正了包括在年齡適用上過去有各黨團的版本有3歲有6歲有未滿18歲但是我們最後採用刑法當中關於7歲未滿7歲這一個部分行為能力者"},{"start":30401.545,"end":30406.168,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":30417.856,"end":30433.45,"text":"以各該項之規定加重其刑至二分之一希望我們有效的在未來提供適當的法條工具讓未來的法官法院在良心上能夠及時加以嚴懲最後達到嚇阻的效果我們希望虐童案這場慘劇永遠不要再發生謝謝"},{"start":30436.475,"end":30442.719,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言報告委員會我們各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會現有國民黨黨團體針對本次會議7月16日提出延長開會時間處理討論事項請問院會有異議"},{"start":30452.045,"end":30460.755,"text":"沒有異議我們宣告本案照國民黨團提議通過本次會議延長開會時間處理討論事項報告委員會現在進入討論事項第43案電業法第49條條文修正草案本案經本次會議決議協商後提出本次會議處理"},{"start":30474.947,"end":30488.067,"text":"報院會因協商已超過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理願以本次我們會議提出討論報院會現在進行廣泛討論"},{"start":30491.052,"end":30501.401,"text":"各黨團並沒有派出代表參加我們現在請宣讀三個黨團共同所提的第49條條文修正動議條文請宣讀"},{"start":30515.194,"end":30535.627,"text":"三黨團提議修正動議條文第49條公用售電業值電價與輸變電業各種收費費率之計算公式由中央主管機關定制公用售電業及輸配電業應依前項計算公式擬定電價及各種收費費率"},{"start":30536.948,"end":30560.965,"text":"報經中央主管機關核定後公告之修正時一同中央主管機關定定第一項電價及各種收費費率之計算公示前應舉辦公開說明會修正時一同中央主管機關為辦理電價、收費費率及其他相關事項之審議及核定應邀請政府機關、學政專家及相關民間團體召開審議會"},{"start":30563.687,"end":30588.819,"text":"請向審議會之學者專家及相關民間團體代表﹐不得少於二分之一審議方式及其他應注意事項﹐應基於公平、公正、公開、透明的原則﹐由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢請問院會本條照三個黨團共同所提修正動議條文通過﹐有無異議﹐沒有異議﹐"},{"start":30591.55,"end":30602.82,"text":"我們第49條照三個黨團共同所提修正動議條文通過報告委員會全案經過二讀現由台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團、民進黨黨團三個黨團共同提議繼續進行三讀請問委員會有異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":30615.031,"end":30635.445,"text":"第49條公用、收電業、收電價與輸配電業各種收費費率之計算公式由中央主管機關定之公用、收電業及輸配電業應依前項計算公式擬定電價及各種收費費率報經中央主管機關核定後公告之"},{"start":30635.965,"end":30665.183,"text":"修正室一同中央主管機關定定第一項電價及各種收費費率之計算公示前應舉辦公開說明會修正室一同中央主管機關為辦理電價、收費費率及其他相關事項之審議及核定應邀請政府機關、學者專家及相關民間團體召開審議會前項審議會之學者專家及相關民間團體代表不得少於二分之一"},{"start":30666.123,"end":30693.429,"text":"審議方式及其他應注意事項應基於公平、公正、公開、透明的原則由中央主管機關定之宣讀完畢報告院會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有修正我們決議《電業法》第49條條文修正通過報告院會現在我們繼續處理"},{"start":30695.276,"end":30702.062,"text":"附帶決議臺灣民眾黨黨團所提附帶決議共一項請議事人員宣讀臺灣民眾黨黨團附帶決議要求電駕審議會會議記錄應於會議結束後兩週內公告並比照央行理事會公開發言紀要以維持公開透明之原則宣讀完畢請問院會有無異議"},{"start":30722.386,"end":30747.945,"text":"沒有異議我們照案通過報議會現在處理民進黨黨團所提附帶決議共一項請議事人員宣讀建請電價費率審議會中有關學者、專家及相關民間團體之人數不得少於二分之一因為增加各界不同面向之意見能納入考量確保審議決策過程中之專業及多元性"},{"start":30748.973,"end":30768.961,"text":"委員組成背景需廣納專業多元原則審議會審議電價時﹐除參酌依公式擬定之電價及各種收費費率﹐確保電價審議機制發揮正向作用﹐兼顧制定合理電價及維護社會公益宣讀完畢請問議員會有異議"},{"start":30772.776,"end":30801.468,"text":"沒有異議我們照案通過報言會我們現在進行完成立法後發言首先請洪森翰委員發言林思明委員請準備主席各位我立法院的同仁"},{"start":30804.349,"end":30817.074,"text":"電價審議的機制一直以來都是能源政策甚至是我們經濟產業政策裡面非常重要的環節那也在不管是媒體上面或者是在立法院都有很多的討論"},{"start":30818.234,"end":30845.915,"text":"那確實一度在本會期關於電價的討論裡面有再一檔提出要將電價的審議從經濟部的電價審議委員會審完之後要再拉回到立法院裡面再次審議那這樣的主張當然引起很多包括產業界也包括能源專業的機構、團體很大的疑慮我想大家在媒體上面都有看到"},{"start":30846.84,"end":30861.141,"text":"所以後來我們在黨團的協商裡面在朝野協商裡面其實很謝謝各個黨團的成員我們做了很充分的討論在這充分的討論裡面最後我們一起通過了"},{"start":30862.765,"end":30879.315,"text":"修改《電力法》第49條也就是我們希望未來電價的審議可以更專業可以更多元而不是有更大的政治決定的陰影甚至落入政治攻防的境地裡面"},{"start":30880.543,"end":30908.675,"text":"所以這一次大家一起三個政黨一起做出最後的這樣子的提案讓電價審議委員會從過去是得招級改成應招級那也要求民間的專業的委員要超過二分之一我想這都符合了後來大家希望電價審議應該要往更專業更多元的方向來改革的這樣目標"},{"start":30909.955,"end":30916.027,"text":"那最後這樣子的提案的版本獲得了大院大家"},{"start":30917.639,"end":30942.727,"text":"共同的贊成通過我想這也是一次朝野合作大家一起來修改修正我們的電價審議機制包括政策非常非常重要的一次示範那很謝謝很謝謝朝野各代表我們最後做出了這樣的修正的決議那也希望這一次修正的模式可以供未來"},{"start":30943.647,"end":30957.465,"text":"朝野我們一起往對的方向正確的方向來改革一個好的模式跟範例謝謝大家謝謝謝謝洪森翰委員的發言接下來我們請林思明委員發言張祺凱委員請準備"},{"start":30966.102,"end":30987.358,"text":"院長各位同仁大家午安我想我們電價的審議是在2015年經過我們立法院的決議之後陸續入法電價的調漲就是由審議委員會來做決定依照各種收費的費率的計算公式來做決定"},{"start":30988.464,"end":31007.093,"text":"而對於審議的電價我想在過去我們看到就是說對於電價的調漲我們人民是毫無智慧的餘地也就是說審議委員會說電價要上漲我們就要全盤接受完全人民是非常的無奈"},{"start":31008.41,"end":31030.98,"text":"我想立法院是最高的民意機關我們代表的是所有的多數的一個民意所以立這個電價的調漲是否要經過我們立法院的一個監督讓我們立法院能夠適時的表達我們的民意我想這也是一個非常重要的一個民主的一個原則所以我們本黨"},{"start":31032,"end":31060.552,"text":"原本我們在這一次的電驗法第49條的第4項我們就增訂了前項審議會的決議應於一個月內送交我們立法院審議後實施我想這樣的一個立法就是要彰顯說人民也要參與整個電價審議委員會他審議出來的電價讓我們人民能夠了解讓立法院能夠代表民意來表達我們的看法"},{"start":31061.172,"end":31089.512,"text":"否則就會造成說今年這個4月份即便是我們通過了決議電價要動漲但是仍然我們的行政院還是依照電業法第49條仍然這個漲我們的電我想我們整個電價的調漲會造成我們的人民的生活痛苦指數增加物價的上漲連動的就是帶來我們整個人民生活生活這個"},{"start":31105.663,"end":31130.893,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":31133.806,"end":31136.247,"text":"今天電價審議的改革終於向前跨出了一大步"},{"start":31157.654,"end":31185.222,"text":"我們打破了長久以來官方跟行政體系獨大獨裁的電價審議方式台灣民眾黨在5月份就提出了今天的版本謝謝兩大黨願意認同採用台灣民眾黨的版本我們今天共提今天不是哪一個黨的勝利今天是台灣全民的勝利因為"},{"start":31186.994,"end":31211.507,"text":"我們回應了民意民意從2月開始民意從2月開始電價漲升不斷的時候台灣民眾黨就一直在提醒沒有改革沒有漲價你要漲電價以前的台電為什麼從金雞母變成了敗家子前續3年一直漲價包括今年10月份可能都還要漲價一次"},{"start":31213.72,"end":31241.945,"text":"我們要求政府跟人民對話跟立法院對話可是呢民進黨政府不採不理不回應民意電價委員會開完之後事業要漲了電價到現在也沒有一個明確的說明所以今天是一個改革的開始我們非常謝謝當台灣民眾黨提出了這個改革的方案之後國民黨也從善如流國民黨本來是要求"},{"start":31243.225,"end":31266.881,"text":"電價委員會審議完之後一個月內是要送到立法院的民進黨本來是抵死不從的後來我們終於有共識了我們回應了民意今天台灣民眾黨要強調這是全民的勝利更重要的再過幾天馬上我們就要審查10月份的電價要不要漲了當今天三讀通過之後我們期待新的審議委員會"},{"start":31268.897,"end":31297.109,"text":"這個二分之一的民意民間代表跟這個社團的這個代表跟寫者專家能夠真正的回應謝謝張啟凱委員的發言接下來我們請劉許廷委員發言謝謝主席各位同仁"},{"start":31299.031,"end":31317.11,"text":"國人正在為錯誤的能源政策共同承擔後果電價的調漲不只傷了百姓的荷包帶動的通貨膨脹問題正嚴重衝擊千千萬萬中小企業的營運並且對於庶民經濟造成重大的打擊跟影響"},{"start":31318.491,"end":31334.236,"text":"過去我們給予政府裁量空間起料電價費率審議會竟然淪為政府在為錯誤的能源政策洗地收爛攤子的工具形容橡皮圖章也讓民意無從伸張"},{"start":31335.496,"end":31349.248,"text":"這次《電解法》第49條修法通過後我們明定電駕審議委員會出席者、民間團體及學者專家代表不得少於二分之一保障人民參與電駕審議的機會而且政府應邀請而減少其獨裁專段的機會"},{"start":31355.433,"end":31371.611,"text":"我們相信電業法修正通過之後公開透明的電價審議過程可以讓人民更加有效的來監督政府並且讓政府無法再閃躲民意直接面對人民對於能源政策改革的需求"},{"start":31372.432,"end":31401.128,"text":"我們期待未來電價審議會採廣納社會各界的建言尤其應注意對於中小企業以及庶民經濟之衝擊更重要的我們也在此嚴肅要求我們現在執政的民進黨政府應認真嚴肅地檢討能源政策用務實的角度改革正本清源以迎向全球減碳的趨勢謝謝大家"},{"start":31402.772,"end":31414.26,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員的發言報告委員會我們各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會我們現在進入討論事項第46案本院國民黨團現請院會決議"},{"start":31417.745,"end":31439.905,"text":"立即解除禁止人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客尋小山通赴金馬棚三個離島線旅遊觀光議案報院會因為協商已超過一個月無法達成共識"},{"start":31441.755,"end":31465.091,"text":"一、立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理我們本次會議請提出討論現在我們進行廣泛討論一、黨團共事由各黨團推派之代表發言首先請國民黨團推派陳玉珍委員發言、洪森翰委員請準備"},{"start":31474.212,"end":31488.479,"text":"從這個法案齁在草野協商中我充分的體驗到了民進黨怎麼樣的說一套做一套民進黨說他們重視醫療人員的福利但是不肯把點子入法"},{"start":31489.349,"end":31508.132,"text":"民進黨說他們在乎警察的退休生活但是在這個警察人士條例的時候也不願意讓這個所得替代率提高民進黨說他注重觀光產業但是呢卻遲遲不肯解除禁團令"},{"start":31510.37,"end":31535.758,"text":"在草議協商的時候我聽到柯總召說這個是總統的職權我們不能那個陸委會跟交通部在那邊說他們沒有辦法決定我們不能超越我們不能讓他們超越總統的職權我想請問這個民進黨團中華民國憲法第10條說人民有居住遷徙的自由所謂居住遷徙自由是包括旅行的自由"},{"start":31537.179,"end":31564.461,"text":"我想請問柯總召你們到底有沒有看到我們總統的就職典禮裡面說他就是希望兩岸客人觀光客多多往來多多交流大家沒有看到的是觀光產業非常的凄慘我前天到宜蘭一個飯店去那個老闆經營了55年的飯店他告訴我說這是疫情以來最慘的時刻因為沒有什麼客人"},{"start":31565.677,"end":31580.964,"text":"大家如果到金門去可以看到我們金門各行各業幾乎都沒有生意比疫情期間還慘因為很多現在旅客也出國沒有台灣客也沒有大陸客禁團令不但剝奪了人們的工作權"},{"start":31588.906,"end":31595.988,"text":"違反了憲法而且再再的體現出民進黨團完全不在乎老百姓的死活在你們的心目中只有政治沒有民生經濟所以今天本席在這裡懇請在座的各位為了我國的觀光產業發展為了我們金馬鵬離島居民的生計"},{"start":31620.171,"end":31640.246,"text":"希望這一次的提議可以順利通過在兩岸交流的歷史中小山通一直扮演著很重要的角色一直有著先行先施的角色在這一次的旅展中我們也有看到大陸有來的相當多的這個客人陸委會也核准了"},{"start":31642.079,"end":31665.995,"text":"今年這個月7月20號很快也有150個大陸的人士要到金門來我希望在座的各位都可以秉持你們的良心支持開放解除禁傳令開放小三通大陸旅客來金馬棚謝謝謝謝陳益臻委員的發言接下來請洪森翰委員發言李博義委員請準備"},{"start":31686.758,"end":31706.977,"text":"院長還有立法院的同仁我們今天在這邊討論這個附中禁團令的問題我想我們應該先確認一個前提其實我想不管各黨對於我們的觀光旅遊的經濟我們都是大力的支持也希望未來可以更活絡"},{"start":31708.223,"end":31731.545,"text":"但今天當討論到中國的旅遊的時候我們不得不面對當下的即刻的一些現實其實一直以來現在的執政黨政府面對對於中國旅遊的問題我們的態度一直很簡單就是要對等就是要尊嚴很明顯我們現在看得到"},{"start":31732.853,"end":31756.905,"text":"其實對於兩岸之間的旅遊問題目前的問題是出在中共並不是出在中華民國的政府所以剛剛國民黨的一些委員有很多對兩岸觀光深切的期待我們都覺得很好但應該要跟中國共產黨來訴求應該去跟習近平要求"},{"start":31762.503,"end":31782.239,"text":"不要再用過自己威權的一己之師來打擊打壓兩岸之間的觀光問題我也要提出現在其實對於中國旅遊的風險的問題安全的問題也是國際上面現在非常非常關注的議題我要舉例"},{"start":31783.991,"end":31813.068,"text":"美國在2023年已經調整了對中國旅遊的事情現在要求大家非必要不要前往愛爾蘭政府其實在今年的5月16號也提醒中國當局可能會對個人實施出境的禁令以阻止愛爾蘭的國民離開該國加拿大政府一樣也是提醒他的國人由於在中國有任意執行當地法律的風險請在中國保持高度警戒"},{"start":31813.968,"end":31842.923,"text":"澳洲政府也是一樣現在其實也在警告自己的國民從7月1號開始提醒中國當局可能會用危害國家安全而拘留外國人我們要說這麼多的國際社會尤其是民主國家在在都在提醒自己的國人附中旅遊有非常嚴肅的安全風險上的問題的時候很遺憾我們現在看不到包括國民黨"},{"start":31844.526,"end":31870.816,"text":"對於這些國人附中的安全問題跟風險有一絲嚴肅的討論這不是只是民進黨的問題而已我剛才講的這些國家並不是都只是民進黨在執政啊所以我要問我們希望大力的發展觀光發展旅遊但面對安全的風險我們也希望在野黨可以更加的嚴肅來"},{"start":31883.907,"end":31907.945,"text":"謝謝洪森翰委員的發言接下來請登記第三位李博義委員發言謝謝各位從疫情後到現在疫情後中國是在2019年停止"},{"start":31908.925,"end":31933.678,"text":"主團來台灣台灣是在2020年1月宣布停止到中國2023年9月台灣已經恢復第三地而且宣布準備迎接團客中國在2023年的5月開放139個國家的地區主團出遊裡面沒有包含台灣"},{"start":31935.049,"end":31952.768,"text":"在2024年4月28日中國國民黨組團到大陸訪問之後回來中國立刻宣布在附帶條件下要開放注意聽喔福建居民來台旅遊組團來台旅遊請問"},{"start":31957.533,"end":31973.391,"text":"這個是把台灣當作台灣省用福建來跟台灣省對談做對等的條件嗎請問我們會接受這個條件嗎再者從2024年的3月到5月"},{"start":31974.485,"end":31998.945,"text":"我們開放的組團旅遊副路其實都有出去從3月到6月台灣一共組了11萬人士出去請問從4月28日之後中國國民黨反台之後國台辦宣布福建地區人民旅客可以組團來台灣到現在"},{"start":32001.267,"end":32019.689,"text":"有沒有一團有沒有一個人來到台灣旅遊沒有這一個提案要我們先片面開放組團赴中國其實也是要先讓請問這有符合對等有符合利益嗎"},{"start":32021.971,"end":32048.627,"text":"台灣對於自由行的旅客沒有限制反而是中國對於自由行的旅客有限制片面的開放先開放台灣旅客組團到中國而台灣所有的石、樹、車的業者完全沒有任何一個中國的團客來到台灣請問這也是對等嗎?"},{"start":32051.618,"end":32064.442,"text":"我們當然照顧離島、京、馬、澎、居民所有的生計但是對於整體台灣旅遊產業我們也必須要照顧所以"},{"start":32064.96,"end":32080.916,"text":"在這邊呼籲也希望中國國民黨這一個提案不是為了四月組團赴大陸之後回來的承諾希望中國國民黨也會為台灣所有的旅行業者來設想謝謝"},{"start":32084.833,"end":32093.531,"text":"謝謝李博議委的發言報言會現在由國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團共同提出修正動議請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":32095.72,"end":32115.126,"text":"中國國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團共同提案修正動議本院國民黨黨團為積極爭取離島經濟發展京馬鵬等三離島縣均以觀光財為主要經濟收入來源小三通集圍渠等三離島縣之主要經濟名門"},{"start":32116.726,"end":32140.137,"text":"盡請院會作成決議在維護我方安全、增進兩岸和平穩定發展解除人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客尋小森通赴金馬棚等三里島縣旅遊觀光適合遊蕩請供決案宣讀完畢報告委員會請問對國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨團所提共同修正動議有無異議"},{"start":32145.506,"end":32163.544,"text":"沒有異議有異議那有異議我們就要表決民進黨團提出有異議那我們進行表決現在表決國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團共同提出修正動議我們現在記名表決贊成國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":32268.804,"end":32275.508,"text":"報應會報告表決結果出席107位贊成59位反對48位贊成者多數報應會現有民進黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":32357.247,"end":32357.551,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":32358.803,"end":32385.869,"text":"委員會現在宣布重複表決結果出席108人贊成60人反對48人贊成者多數我們現在做以下宣告在維護我方安全、增進兩岸和平穩定發展解除人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制並優先開放大陸觀光客尋小山通赴金門、馬祖、澎湖等三離島線旅遊觀光"},{"start":32388.75,"end":32412.302,"text":"報告委員會現在有兩個聲明郭國文委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄蔡易瑜委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報紀錄報告委員會現在我們進行完成程序後發言首先請登記第一位吳思瑤委員發言王紅薇委員請準備"},{"start":32420.305,"end":32429.79,"text":"主席各位同仁非常遺憾剛剛通過了這樣一個提案我想不是台灣不開放是中國不放行數字會說話2023年台灣附中有176萬人中國來台只有22.6萬人"},{"start":32437.814,"end":32453.751,"text":"今年上半年臺灣附中超過100萬人中國來臺只有15萬人非常清楚臺灣是開放的一方未能恢復兩岸觀光旅遊的障礙是中國"},{"start":32455.092,"end":32476.277,"text":"國民黨應當向中國要求去除障礙而不是對自己的政府施壓這是搞錯了方向而現在是對的時機嗎我們看看7月1號中國開始了新的制度警察可以任意翻查旅客的手機筆電查看上網跟對話的記錄甚至6月中國的懲讀22項意見書"},{"start":32482.659,"end":32504.987,"text":"剛剛陳玉珍委員說怎麼可以不顧國人的死活呢對你通過了這個提案無視於附中旅遊的風險才是無視於人民的死活所以當我們看到世界各國不只台灣都對附中提出示警難道台灣這個時候要鼓勵國人附中嗎"},{"start":32506.207,"end":32523.928,"text":"更甚至不只對於國人釋放了錯誤的訊息﹐恐怕也對世界傳達了錯誤的訊號﹐讓民主同盟的國家誤以為﹐台灣在此時此刻兩岸險峻的情勢當下﹐是在迎合中國﹐"},{"start":32525.029,"end":32544.936,"text":"如果聚焦於金馬鵬山離島的觀光旅遊陳玉珍委員您應當去向習近平反映現在的福州市的採線團已經採完了請中國趕快開放請中國也趕快開放到金門旅遊因為障礙都在路方謝謝吳思堯委員發言接下來請王宏威委員發言羅志強委員請準備"},{"start":32557.961,"end":32560.964,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":32564.158,"end":32589.279,"text":"好 謝謝主席及各位同仁剛才我們所表決的提案通過我們可以達成兩大目標第一個就是解決現在台灣觀光業的困境我們都知道在去年我們在疫後全面恢復觀光之後我們來台觀光的人次雖然達到將近650萬人"},{"start":32592.321,"end":32617.682,"text":"但是仍然百比一前只有達到六成而已但是我們其他的鄰近國家包含韓國已經達到九成日本也都恢復疫情的一個水準我相信今天在座不管你是哪一個政黨一定都有接受觀光旅遊產業的陳情因為他們真的太慘了"},{"start":32618.783,"end":32634.844,"text":"所以今天我們要如何的協助觀光產業的我們這些從業人員我們一定要拿出辦法更何況今年我們原定是1200萬人次可是呢我們的交通部已經下下調降"},{"start":32636.366,"end":32650.502,"text":"即便調降到1000萬人次可是到現在6月底為止整個赴台觀光的人次只有380萬其實非常非常的悲觀我們一定要做一些事情"},{"start":32651.543,"end":32665.972,"text":"剛才我們也注意到我們的很多的民進黨的委員都說這個有國家安全的問題有人民安全的問題讓我提醒大家剛剛結束的臺北國際夏季旅展"},{"start":32666.932,"end":32688.441,"text":"包含大陸官員以及旅遊的相關人士有高達155人這也是陸委會還有交通部所放行的我想請問一下難道我們的政府也在不顧人民的安全嗎更不要說羅文嘉海基會的秘書長"},{"start":32709.81,"end":32736.899,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員的發言接下來請羅志強委員發言兩岸在推動直航的時候賴清德總統曾經說這會木馬屠城兩岸直航了"},{"start":32737.984,"end":32766.995,"text":"也沒有木馬塗層當馬總統在推動兩岸的經貿往來的時候民進黨說推動經貿的關係加強啊雜貨賺沒工 雜貨賺沒銀 硬要去歐良工結果呢 我們簽訂了ECFA民進黨到現在愛不釋手啊糖衣毒藥吃得愛不釋手賴清德、蔡英文八年愛不釋手"},{"start":32768.171,"end":32792.705,"text":"今天我們來談到我們的所謂的民進黨的荒謬可笑的陸克的進團令我曾經徒步環島我走在花東臺東的海岸有一次一個海產店的老闆他知道我要經過這個花東的海岸他出來說要請我吃個便當他指著他的海產店空蕩蕩的說他說請你幫我謝謝馬總統"},{"start":32795.421,"end":32812.055,"text":"在馬總統執政的時候我的海產店不但是滿的旁邊兩家還有兩家海產店三家海產店面對著台東無敵的海景旅客絡繹不絕到現在左邊的倒了右邊的倒了我這一家改賣便當了"},{"start":32813.473,"end":32831.548,"text":"民進黨在過去今天他說我們的觀光人數他從1200萬目標下修了1000萬大家不要忘了台灣的觀光人數破1000萬是在馬英九總統執政的時代結果你民進黨越走越回去"},{"start":32832.861,"end":32849.871,"text":"因為你今天沒有辦法開創我們的觀光人口觀光的產業你結果去懲罰我們的旅遊業者懲罰台灣人民違反憲法的遷徙自由跟大家講說不准組團去大陸這叫做什麼樣的民進黨荒謬謝謝羅志強委員的發言"},{"start":32858.4,"end":32885.003,"text":"現在陳旭委員會各黨報告院會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會我們現在進入討論事項第47案本院國民黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前邀請賴清德總統至立法院就職權相關之國家大政方針進行國情報告一案"},{"start":32886.82,"end":32914.62,"text":"報告委員會因協商已過一個月：無法達成共識：立法院職權行事法第71條之一規定：由院會定期處理：願與本次會議提出討論：我們現在進行廣泛討論沒有政黨團推敗代表發言報告委員會現有國民黨黨團提出修正動議：請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":32916.089,"end":32933.535,"text":"本院國民黨黨團有鑒於美國法國總統至國會進行國情諮問制度為民主國家之典範我國憲法再修台灣籍立法院職權限時法定有總統府立法院國情報告相關規定為自我國修憲以來未曾落實"},{"start":32934.835,"end":32957.41,"text":"總統依憲法為國家元首、三軍統帥、任命行政院院長等重大之人事選組成內閣團隊實質主導國防外交事務及國家大政方針、寄予責任政治原理總統至立法院進行國情報告必時立法院及全國人民知悉總統治國理念及施政方向"},{"start":32958.23,"end":32973.173,"text":"對於捍衛民主憲政以及公眾溝通堅具正面意義面對國內能源政策困境淨零排放挑戰產業轉型、兩岸關係局發展、電價導致物價急漲波及民生經濟、財政收支劃分制調整、健保財務穩定、保障民眾就醫等均攸關國際民生之國家安全事項與總統職權相關如今總統及國會新民意產生"},{"start":32986.776,"end":33014.955,"text":"政治生態變化應新民意托付此刻立法院急需落實相關法治﹐建立優良之憲政管理﹐原件請院會作成權益﹐為確保總統對全民負責之憲政機制﹐本院依立法院《集權行使法》第15條政規定﹐邀請耐心的總統至立法院﹐就集權相關之國家大政方針進行國際報告﹐是否有道公決案﹐宣讀完畢"},{"start":33017.373,"end":33032.231,"text":"請問院會照國民黨團修正動議通過有無異議有異議我們就進行表決我們贊成國民黨所提修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":33111.462,"end":33116.148,"text":"官員會現在報告表決結果出席109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數官員會現由民進黨黨團體重複表決我們進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":33200.951,"end":33204.483,"text":"報告院會議宣布重複表決結果出席109位、贊成59位、反對50位"},{"start":33208.168,"end":33234.891,"text":"我們贊成者多數我們照國民黨團修正動議通過報院會現在做以下決議為確保總統對全民負責之憲政機制本院依立法院職權新制法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統之立法院就職權相關之國家大政方針進行國情報告報院會現在我們進行完成程序之發言首先請謝龍介委員發言"},{"start":33262.547,"end":33278.557,"text":"老總統請等一下最近在民間很多鄉親說你看來的腳踏實地還會喘口都白痴的我想要替你解釋幾句我也很抱歉為什麼"},{"start":33284.926,"end":33293.892,"text":"在總統大選辯論時你說依照憲法你要來立法院做國情報告並請來答詢結果選情三明海誓選後再跟你說三明海誓立法院現在一手我通過你說不讓我吃雞骨我沒有來反省我請問你"},{"start":33311.124,"end":33324.106,"text":"如果你懷疑為了中華民國的總統所保留下來這個VIP的寶座若你若是來到這裡你捨得我嗎?抱歉我還要先發一件事選舉去拜媽祖拜觀光、拜翁牙、拜德宮去討選票選了媽祖、觀光、翁牙、拜德宮都選通鑒了"},{"start":33340.356,"end":33349.845,"text":"尤其是平成王整天在那裡想我今天要放這隻嬌娃出去問他要放那隻嬌娃出去你都不怕把那隻嬌娃抓死"},{"start":33351.127,"end":33374.132,"text":"人家說他中他拿的3K帥他煩他惑小人心我們台灣人最忌諱就是說一套做一套你看你包括你的同志來到這裡說北朝的說到自己叫北朝的感動到老百姓你自己想想看我們的國家還能不能繼續下去你要怎麼團結2350萬人呢請聽聽民政界"},{"start":33381.093,"end":33401.019,"text":"何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案："},{"start":33402.793,"end":33413.005,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨團建請院會決議本院於新任行政院院長施政方針報告前依立法院職權刑事法第15條之2規定"},{"start":33415,"end":33437.811,"text":"邀請賴清德總統至立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員所提問題議案報院會因協商已過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權新設法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理願以本次會議提出討論"},{"start":33439.412,"end":33457.692,"text":"報告委員會現在我們進行廣泛討論一黨團共事由各黨團推派之代表發言首先請林國成委員發言鍾嘉斌委員請準備林國成委員請發言"},{"start":33480.686,"end":33499.433,"text":"其實這些國情報告我說實在的依照憲法徵修條文這很明確依照我們立法委員之前新十法十五條之二也是很明確所以我賴總統在選舉的時候我要證明蓉蓋欉剛才講的"},{"start":33504.915,"end":33527.588,"text":"習介雄他也公開的宣示總統有義務也有權利到立法院接受國情報告我相信我信賴總統均無細言特別提這個案其實我要呼籲"},{"start":33529.534,"end":33550.224,"text":"我們賴總統這可以展現國家元首的高度也可以創造歷史以來第一位來立法院報告的總統可以提高高度可以創造歷史這有什麼不好"},{"start":33551.164,"end":33571.593,"text":"最後我真的要呼籲請賴總統放心立法院各黨的委員水準層次很高一定要會以理相待、理性請教、習耳恭聽、憲政的慣例"},{"start":33572.864,"end":33598.112,"text":"良好的典範讓台灣的民主再進步我不曉得我們賴總統你是在怕什麼啦你是在擔心什麼啦其實大家可以看得出來今天我們中華民國的立法院不管你們在擔心說我們國會無法啊怕"},{"start":33598.972,"end":33600.694,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":33618.234,"end":33628.139,"text":"改變歷史才是真正民主國家的重要所以我們還是要呼籲賴總統請你來我們會在大門口迎接你我們絕對會以禮相待謝謝感謝大家"},{"start":33650.789,"end":33666.516,"text":"主席在場的委員先進根據憲法正條文第4條第3項立法委員的全責寫得很清楚立法院於每年集會時得聽取總統國情報告立法院當然可以每年集會"},{"start":33668.35,"end":33690.384,"text":"行政院依憲法第五四條規定向立法院負責那究竟總統來立法院做什麼呢其實本席之前在關於我們立法院職權行使法相關的修法不斷地提出當年在2005年通過將國民大會完全廢止後原來國民大會對總統行使的職權就由立法院來行使"},{"start":33691.246,"end":33698.692,"text":"也才有在2008年我們制定了立法院職權行使法將總統來聽取總統國簽報告予以具體化"},{"start":33702.95,"end":33727.571,"text":"但是很可惜的賴總統雖然在選前有承諾根據原有的立法院職權刑事法第15條之一到之四來接受立法院的邀請來做國情報告然而在本次的擴權案當中已經克正在立法憲法法庭審理當中這樣的一個15條之一到15條之四已經嚴重的抵觸憲法的原來規定"},{"start":33729.008,"end":33746.385,"text":"因為憲法原來的規定給予國民大會的是得聽取總統國情報告並檢討國事提供建言提供建言是向總統提出但是現在的政修條文並沒有立法院可以向總統提供建言的相關規定"},{"start":33747.586,"end":33769.002,"text":"因此2008年立法院職員行使法將聽取總統國情報告之後透過15條之四擅自增加了立法委員可以向總統提出他們的看法之後他其實至少他保留了由總統一期意願來決定是否做補充說明"},{"start":33769.775,"end":33794.306,"text":"然而這次的我們的立法院職員行事法的擴選法案當中將由總統依其意願來予以做補充說明把它改成了因而這裡面我們看到民眾黨說明雖然它根據的是15條之二來邀請總統然而它在最後面的第二行並依法回應立法委員之提問依什麼法"},{"start":33795.253,"end":33819.947,"text":"一、擴增、擴全扣折立法委員職權新施法嗎?憲法中二條文第四條第三項有說總統要來回應立法委員的提問嗎?沒有所以這明顯的就是一個不理解台灣我們中華民國憲法在中二條文嚴格的過程中由國民大會轉來讓渡給立法委員的職權當中修憲者已經有所修改了"},{"start":33820.607,"end":33834.7,"text":"國民大會可以監討國事提供建言立法院只能聽取總統國情報告所以呼籲大家在憲法法庭上位作出暫時處分前我們這樣的提議還是回歸到舊法來行使以上說明"},{"start":33854.705,"end":33869.653,"text":"關於國情報告其實有兩個層次的點第一個就是本來徵修條文的規定立法院是得聽取得聽取的意思就是說如果今天來做國情報告的話立法院可以聽取這樣的一個國情報告"},{"start":33872.695,"end":33890.88,"text":"這跟你可以積極的叫他過來完全是兩件事情大家可以去想像假設我今天弄了一個告解式大家都可以來去吐露心聲我可以聽取跟我今天可以主動想叫你來告解就來告解這應該是完全不同的兩件事情吧"},{"start":33891.48,"end":33910.988,"text":"所以當我們去創設了這一種新的義務的時候我們就必須要考量它到底跟憲法增修條文到底有沒有合制其實連現行的立法院職權刑事法都有可能跟憲法有衝突的地方就是在還沒有修國會擴權法案之前更不要講說現在的15之1跟15之2這是第一個層次"},{"start":33914.244,"end":33926.183,"text":"第二個層次呢就像各位不斷的在挑戰到底反質詢的定義是什麼現在我發現其實很有可能這個版本連質詢的定義都搞不清楚"},{"start":33926.854,"end":33949.143,"text":"因為目前的規定是不但可以叫總統過來做這個國情報告之外更重要的是可以請他做這個依序來回答這個其實已經是一個類似質詢的一個制度即使在憲法法庭上面有提到說這個及時到底有多及時這個是有爭議的"},{"start":33950.223,"end":33965.316,"text":"但按照目前來講訴訟的相關的一些規定比如說性暴力等等之類的即時是可以非常即時的所以當你創設了一個類似質詢的規定的時候你又再多創設了一個回答的義務"},{"start":33966.377,"end":33989.917,"text":"所以剛剛嘉賓委員有提到創設這個法所不容許的義務其實有兩個層次第一個層次就是請他過來的這一個義務以及必須要依序回答的義務這個都是創設了法所不容許尤其是憲法所不容許的義務那從97修憲之後我們就已經進入了雙原制總統有自己的民意基礎"},{"start":33990.758,"end":34019.36,"text":"而在這個總統的民意基礎之下他任命行政院長之後真正對立法院負責的是行政院長而不是總統台灣有他特殊的這種混合制的制度而這種雙元首長制本來就是在當初修憲之後呢故意的讓總統只有讓他的國情報告立法院有得聽取的義務台灣面臨這些國安的威脅他本來就會把"},{"start":34020.02,"end":34020.781,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":34037.824,"end":34048.568,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言報告委員會各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢報告委員會現有台灣民眾黨黨團提出修正動議及再修正動議請議事人員一併宣讀"},{"start":34051.072,"end":34076.165,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議：針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議：事由：討論事項第48案：擬具修正動議如下：漸行任會作成決議本院依立法院政權行事法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統致立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員提出這問題"},{"start":34079.043,"end":34096.364,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議本院臺灣民眾黨黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議：事由：日前討論事項第48案擬具再修正動議如下：進行委員會作審決議本院一立法院政權實施法第15條確認規定"},{"start":34098.266,"end":34122.513,"text":"邀請賴清德總統至立法院就《國家大政方針》進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員之提問其發言時間、人數、順序、政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定宣讀完畢本院會現在我們要進行處理依序進行處理其中有任何一案通過我們不再處理其他案請問院會"},{"start":34124.693,"end":34143.621,"text":"對照台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議的通過有無異議有異我們進行表決我們時間一分鐘贊成台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議請按贊成反對請反對時間一分鐘開始"},{"start":34220.663,"end":34228.106,"text":"報告委員會宣布表決結果出席109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數報告委員會現由民進黨黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":34314.68,"end":34327.877,"text":"報告重複表決結果出席109位贊成59位反對50位贊成者多數照台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議通過報告我們做以下決議"},{"start":34330.646,"end":34349.046,"text":"本院依立法院職權新司法第15條之二規定邀請賴清德總統至立法院就國家大政方針進行國情報告並依法回應立法委員之提問其發言時間、人數、順序、政黨比例等事項由黨團協商決定報議會現在我們進入討論事項第50案"},{"start":34353.03,"end":34382.47,"text":"學生輔導法部分條文修正草案本案經本次會議結論協商後提出本次會議處理因上代協商做以下決議協商後再行處理報言會現在我們進入討論事項第51案警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案本案因上代協商決議協商後再行處理報言會現在我們休息進行誘餐"},{"start":34383.552,"end":34385.078,"text":"用餐晚上7點20分繼續開會 現在休息"},{"start":39389.437,"end":39399.567,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會進行討論事項第18案洗錢防治法修正草案報告委員會現在我們處理保留第19條請宣讀條文"},{"start":39403.055,"end":39421.427,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第19條有第二條各款所列行為者處1年以上7年下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金請洗錢之財務或財產上利益為達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年下有期徒刑"},{"start":39422.607,"end":39440.021,"text":"併科新台幣5000萬元以下罰金﹐發起、主持、操縱或指揮犯罪組織﹐而有第二條各款所列洗錢行為﹐請洗錢之財務或財產上利益﹐達新台幣1億元者﹐處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑﹐併科新台幣1億5000萬元以下罰金"},{"start":39442.923,"end":39465.586,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第19條有第二條各款所列洗錢行為者處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金其洗錢之財務或財產上利益未達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣5千萬元以下罰金且向之未遂犯罰之"},{"start":39466.926,"end":39490.1,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團凶震動議第19條有第二條各款所列洗錢行為者處3年以上10年下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金其洗錢之財務或財產上利益未達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣5000萬元以下罰金第一項之未遂犯罰之"},{"start":39492.072,"end":39512.605,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第19條有第二條各款所列洗錢行為者處3年以上10年下有期徒刑並科新台幣1億元以下罰金其洗錢之財務或財產上的利益為達新台幣1億元者處6月以上5年下有期徒刑並科新台幣5000萬元以下罰金前項之為稅販罰資宣讀完畢"},{"start":39517.458,"end":39541.437,"text":"報告委員會依協商結論保留條文處理前各黨團推派一位依台灣民眾黨團、民進黨團、國民黨團順序輪流發言每人發言時間3分鐘發言完畢後我們即進行保留條文處理現在進行各黨團推派代表的發言首先請黃國昌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":39558.905,"end":39577.372,"text":"院長、本院委員這一次洗錢防治法的修正我們希望一方面有事前的管制但重要的事情是對於重大洗錢犯的行為絕對有必要加重處罰現行洗錢防治法不區分"},{"start":39578.012,"end":39579.233,"text":"請審議員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":39596.921,"end":39612.081,"text":"這樣的狀態在年輕人涉及到金額比較低的洗錢犯罪的時候我們認為的確有給予自新的必要不宜重判但是當我們今天所考慮到的"},{"start":39612.641,"end":39636.61,"text":"是洗錢所涉及的財產或者是財產上的利益高達一億元以上的話如果我們對於這種犯罪的處罰只是維持現在的七年以下有期徒刑再加一個樓地板一年以上有期徒刑的話根本沒有辦法給這種重大洗錢犯適度的處罰"},{"start":39637.89,"end":39656.678,"text":"詐欺洗錢可以說是一體的兩面洗錢犯的存在有他獨自所要保護的利益因此台灣民眾黨黨團在這一次我們針對洗錢防治法第19條提出修正動議認為洗錢如果"},{"start":39660.52,"end":39679.341,"text":"財務或財產上利益高達1億元以上的話必須要處3年以上10年以下的有期徒刑這樣才可以有效遏止重大的洗錢罪犯特別是針對有組織性的長期的系統性的洗錢"},{"start":39680.543,"end":39699.474,"text":"如果說今天我們針對這種重大洗錢犯只是透過組織犯罪防制條例首腦的條文來駕以處罰的話組織犯罪防制條例對於犯罪組織的首腦本來就已經處了3年以上10年以下有期徒刑的法定刑"},{"start":39700.214,"end":39715.931,"text":"如果再加上洗錢1億以上還是科與相當的刑度的話我們認為這樣子立法上面的規範根本沒有辦法適切反映出他所應該要承擔的罪責因此"},{"start":39716.974,"end":39737.57,"text":"在打仗非常重要的現在切斷不罰洗錢的金流特別是對於這種洗錢大戶加重處罰我們認為是現在社會對我們的期待謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員的發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員發言林思明委員請準備"},{"start":39751.465,"end":39777.91,"text":"主席在場的委員先進國人所痛恨的詐欺行為我們這次打詐司法當中非常重要的就是洗錢防治法因為可以說大部分的詐欺所得必須透過洗錢的方式才能轉為犯罪集團所使用然而洗錢的過程它牽涉到許多的階段將詐欺所得或是犯罪所得透過洗錢的方式可能包括有類似車手這樣的職場小白他們所從與協助的"},{"start":39779.352,"end":39801.528,"text":"又類似像一些灰色地帶從事地下匯兌或是典當業或是資源回收業大量現金回流的他們兼做這樣的洗錢工作這是另外一種那最為可惡的就是犯罪集團以專門設置的水房來從事洗錢的業務因此根據這三種不同的樣態最早在洗錢防治法第14條它是處以7年以下或罰併科500萬的罰金"},{"start":39804.73,"end":39829.246,"text":"但是在實務上呢往往因為這樣的刑度在法官量刑的時候對於出犯者都是以6個月以下得一顆罰金造成民眾對於說參與洗錢來協助詐欺這樣的罪犯不能得到應有的懲罰因此這次呢部分黨派我們在這次的洗錢防治法改列為19條之後呢就開始產生了需要有兩種不同的刑度首先對於較嚴重者"},{"start":39830.307,"end":39841.847,"text":"以不以他的前置犯罪為目的我們就以單純的洗錢就主張應該定為一年以上七年以下並以一億元的這個財產所得的洗錢的財產"},{"start":39843.203,"end":39863.348,"text":"立意來作為區隔一元以上的就是一年以上七年以下一元以下的就是六個月以上五年以下那它當中分別可以達一億的罰金但是縱使如此還是讓大家覺得一年以上七年以下仍然會為這些重大的主嫌讓他逃脫為什麼"},{"start":39864.548,"end":39881.474,"text":"一年一年以上七年以下的這樣的一個刑度很容易在初犯或良刑的時候從一年起跳我們知道兩年以下得以緩刑也因此很多以洗錢為業的詐欺祖先在這樣的刑度之下仍然可以倒脫法律的制裁"},{"start":39882.034,"end":39896.021,"text":"因此在民黨團參酌了各黨團的意見之後我們主張仍然以現在的審查會意見我們維持一億以上跟以下分別定有一年以上七年以下的刑度對於嚴重者處以較高的刑度處罰"},{"start":39897.182,"end":39920.8,"text":"在1億以下的我們處以6個月以上、5年以下但是對於符合《組織犯罪條例》所說的這個以發起、主持、操作或指揮者這尤其惡性重大我們予以定到3年以上、5年以下並得課以1億5000萬的罰金相信這樣三個刑度的量刑能夠分別就參與洗錢的罪犯所給予他們應有的懲罰"},{"start":39921.761,"end":39941.646,"text":"當然目前我們看到另外兩個黨團的版本分別是三年以上十年以下跟這個所謂的以來抱歉我想我們就請大家支持民進黨的版本謝謝鍾嘉斌委員接下來請林思明委員請發言"},{"start":39949.271,"end":39972.247,"text":"謝謝院長、各位委員社會上的詐騙行為推陳出新、陳出不窮而詐騙行為中的洗錢環節是透過犯罪或其他非法的手段所獲得的金錢包含虛擬貨幣、違幣等等經過金融合法作業的流程等方法來操作掩飾、隱匿、洗淨、看似合法的資金"},{"start":39973.027,"end":39990.162,"text":"其實不只詐騙、洗錢也與經濟犯罪、毒品或軍火交易、恐怖活動以及組織犯罪、人口販運、賭博、偷渡等重大犯罪都有所關聯也常透過跨國的方式來進行"},{"start":39991.403,"end":40010.081,"text":"所以我們為了要有效的遏阻各種類型的洗錢行為政府應該以最嚴謹的態度來面對也應以最嚴格的刑罰來做出規定所以國民黨團提出只要涉及洗錢行為者處3年以上10年"},{"start":40010.862,"end":40025.525,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員"},{"start":40036.928,"end":40052.893,"text":"以不法途徑所獲得的不法的財產或財產利益透過洗錢來加以洗白他的犯罪所得予以重罰所以 無論洗錢的原因是什麼犯罪者均應對洗錢的結果"},{"start":40054.113,"end":40080.653,"text":"負起責任所以我希望各位委員支持凡是有洗錢的行為而且他的財務或財產上的利益高達一億元以上者我們要予以重懲處三年以上、十年以下有期徒刑並科新台幣一億元的罰金如果是對於剛才講的車手或者小白他的洗錢的金額沒有高達一億元以下者"},{"start":40082.094,"end":40110.149,"text":"那我們就處以6個月以上5年以下的有期徒刑這也可以對於我們的一些這個車手這些不慎觸法的年輕人給他一個自新的一個機會所以希望各位委員我們對於洗錢的防制既然大家這次要阻絕我們的這個詐欺犯那對於這次嚴刑峻罰來遏止我們的詐欺台灣的詐欺王國這樣的惡名能夠予以洗刷"},{"start":40110.609,"end":40132.984,"text":"希望各位委員支持我們這一次的一個修正的一個動議好謝謝謝謝林思明委員的發言報告院會現在我們依序進行表決如果其中有任何一樣通過即不再處理其他案報告院會現在我們按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡現在開始"},{"start":40566.232,"end":40569.346,"text":"報告委員會請問每位委員是否拿到表決卡"},{"start":40570.575,"end":40593.409,"text":"都拿到好我們現在依序進行表決其中任何一案通過我們就不再處理其他案報告委員會現有國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團再修正動議條文內容完全相同我們一併處理報告委員會現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名投票記名表決時間一分鐘贊成國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘開始"},{"start":40673.527,"end":40679.93,"text":"報告委員會報告表決結果出席105位贊成56位反對49位贊成者多數報告委員會現有民進黨黨團體重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":40762.956,"end":40765.859,"text":"報告重複表決結果出席107位、贊成58位、反對49位"},{"start":40775.857,"end":40795.81,"text":"報告委員會贊成者多數我們做以下宣告第19條照國民黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團再修正動議條文通過報告委員會黃健豪委員、陳清薇委員聲明剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報告委員會全案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議"},{"start":40805.509,"end":40833.498,"text":"沒有議我們請宣讀經過二讀制條文第一條為防制洗錢打擊犯罪健全防制洗錢體系穩定金融秩序促進金流之透明強化國際合作特制定本法第二條本法所稱洗錢其下列行為一、隱匿特定犯罪所得或掩飾其來源二、妨礙或危害國家對於特定犯罪所得之調查"},{"start":40834.919,"end":40845.286,"text":"發現保全陌生或追偵3、收受持有或使用他人之特定犯罪所得4、使用自己之特定犯罪所得與他人進行交易"},{"start":40849.183,"end":40860.409,"text":"3.本法所稱特定犯罪只下列各款之罪1.最新本行為6月以上有期徒刑之罪2.刑法第121條、第123條、第201條之一第二項、第231條、第233條第一項、第235條、第一項、第二項"},{"start":40868.232,"end":40874.676,"text":"第266條第一項第二項第268條第319條之一第二項第三項即該二項之未遂分第319條之三第四項而分第一項即其未遂分第319條之四第三項第339條"},{"start":40899.433,"end":40911.525,"text":"懲治走私條例第2條、第1項、第2項、第3條之罪破審法第154條、第155條之罪商標法第95條、第96條之罪商業會計法第71條、第72條之罪稅捐基金法第41條、第1項、第42條及第43條、第1項、第2項之罪"},{"start":40923.877,"end":40926.18,"text":"政府裁判法第87條、第3項、第5項、第6項、第89條、第91條、第1項、第3項之罪電子支付機構管理條例第46條、第2項、第3項、第47條之罪"},{"start":40939.14,"end":40942.484,"text":"10.《證券交易法》第172條之罪11."},{"start":40942.484,"end":40945.908,"text":"《期戶交易法》第113條之罪12."},{"start":40945.908,"end":40951.154,"text":"《資本防治法》第8條第9條第1項第2項第4項之罪13."},{"start":40951.154,"end":40954.118,"text":"《本法》第21條之罪14."},{"start":40954.118,"end":40957.742,"text":"《組織犯罪防制條例》第3條第2項第4項第5項之罪"},{"start":40959.504,"end":40964.008,"text":"15.《營業秘密法》第13條之一 第1項 第2項之罪16."},{"start":40964.008,"end":40966.471,"text":"《人口分域防制法》第30條 第1項 第3項 第31條 第2項 第5項 第33條之罪17."},{"start":40966.471,"end":40967.732,"text":"《熱衝國際移民法》第73條 第74條之罪"},{"start":40976.96,"end":40988.828,"text":"18.食品安全衛生管理法 第49條 第1項 第2項 前段 第5項之罪19.住宿權法 第91條 第1項 第91條之一 第1項 第2項 第92條之罪20.總統 副總統選舉罷免法 第88條之一 第1項 第2項 第4項之罪21.公職人員選舉罷免法 第103條之一 第1項 第2項 第4項之罪"},{"start":41004.502,"end":41020.765,"text":"第4條本法所徵特定犯罪所得只犯第3條所列之特定犯罪而取得或變得之財務或財政勝利及其資息前項特定犯罪所得之認定不以其所犯特定犯罪經有罪判決為必要"},{"start":41022.475,"end":41035.247,"text":"第5條本法所稱金融機構包括下列機構一、銀行二、信託投資公司三、信用合作社四、農會信用部五、漁會信用部六、全國農業金庫七、辦理儲金會對檢疫燃燒保險業務者郵政機構"},{"start":41039.57,"end":41054.939,"text":"8.票券金融公司9.信用卡公司10.保險公司11.證券商12.證券投資信託事業13.證券金融事業14.證券投資顧問事業15.證券集中保管事業16.期貨商"},{"start":41056.86,"end":41076.291,"text":"17信託業18其他經目的事業主管機關指定之金融機構﹐辦理融資性租賃﹐提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員﹐適用本法關於金融機構之規定本法所稱指定之非金融事業或人員﹐只從事下列交易之事業或人員"},{"start":41078.031,"end":41100.522,"text":"一、銀樓業二、地政事及不動產經紀業從事與不動產買賣交易有關之行為三、律師、公證人、會計師為客戶準備或進行下列交易時一、買賣不動產二、管理客戶金錢、證券或其他資產三、管理銀行儲蓄或證券賬戶四、有關提供公司設立營運或管理者資金籌劃"},{"start":41102.082,"end":41124.071,"text":"法人或法律協議之設立、營運或管理以及買賣事業體信託及公司服務提供業為客戶準備或進行下列教育時關於法人之籌備或設立事項擔任或安排他人擔任公司董事或秘書合夥之合夥人或在其他法人組織之類似職位"},{"start":41127.576,"end":41146.098,"text":"提供公司合夥信託其他管人或協議註冊之辦公室營業地址、居住所、通訊或管理地址擔任或安排他人擔任信託或其他類似契約信職之受託人或其他相同角色擔任或安排他人擔任實職"},{"start":41148.02,"end":41165.511,"text":"持股股東5提供第三方支付服務之事業或人員6其他業務特性或交易型態亦為洗錢犯罪利用之事業或從業人員第二項辦理融資性租賃提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員之範圍"},{"start":41166.371,"end":41182.662,"text":"第三項第六款指定之非金融事業或人員其適用之交易形態其得不適用第12條第一項申報規定之前項各款事業或人員由法務部會同中央目的事業主管機關報請行政院指定"},{"start":41183.823,"end":41206.729,"text":"第一項至第三項至金融機構事業或人員所從事之交易必要時但由法務部會同中央目的事業主管機關決定其達一定金額者應使用現金以外之支付工具第一項至第三項至金融機構事業或人員違反前項規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處交易金額二倍以下罰款"},{"start":41207.609,"end":41221.371,"text":"前6項之中央目的事業主管機關認定有疑議者由行政院決定之第4項第5項及前項之指定其事務設司法院者由行政院會同司法院決定之"},{"start":41224.98,"end":41239.678,"text":"第6條提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務知識業或人員未向中央目的事業主管機關完成洗錢方式服務難量登記或帶路者不得提供虛擬資產服務第三方支付服務"},{"start":41240.299,"end":41265.809,"text":"境外設立師提供虛擬資產服務﹐第三方支付服務則是業或人員﹐分依公司法辦理公司或分公司設立登記﹐並完成洗錢防制﹐服務難量登記或登錄者﹐不得在我國境內提供虛擬資產服務﹐第三方支付服務提供虛擬資產服務則是業或人員﹐辦理前項洗錢防制登記則申請條件﹐程序撤銷或廢止登記"},{"start":41269.17,"end":41293.161,"text":"虛擬資產上下價值審查機制防止不公正交易機制自由資產與客戶資產分離保管方式資訊系統與安全錢包管理機制及其他應遵形式向之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關定制提供第三方支付服務之事業或人員辦理第一項洗錢防止及服務難量登錄之申請條件"},{"start":41294.301,"end":41318.998,"text":"程序撤銷或廢止登錄及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關定之違反第一項規定為完全洗錢房置服務能量登記或登錄而提供虛擬資產服務第四方支付服務或及洗錢房置登記經撤銷或廢止服務能量登錄經廢止或失效而然提供虛擬資產服務"},{"start":41320.439,"end":41336.61,"text":"第三方支付服務者處二年下有期徒刑、軍役或科或病科薪財幣500萬元以下罰金﹐法人犯及向知罪者處處罰行其行為人為﹐對該法人亦可以前向10倍以下之罰金"},{"start":41339.229,"end":41362.285,"text":"第7條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員應依期前與資控風險及業務規模建立期前防制內部控制與集合制度其內容應包括下列事項一、防制期前及打擊資控制作業及控制程序二、定期舉辦或參加防制期前之暫時訓練三、指派專責人員負責協調監督第一款事項之執行"},{"start":41368.029,"end":41373.533,"text":"4.備制或定期更新防制期間及打擊指控風險評估報告5."},{"start":41373.533,"end":41375.035,"text":"計劃程序6."},{"start":41375.035,"end":41386.024,"text":"其當今中央目的事業主管機關注定諸事項前項制度則實行中央目的事業主管機關應定其查核並等委託其他機關共法人或團體辦理"},{"start":41387.325,"end":41401.832,"text":"第一項制度之實施內容、作業程序、執行措施、前項查核之方式、順委託之資格條件及其他應遵警示常識辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、保護部及相關機關定制與訂令前應徵詢問相關公會之意見"},{"start":41405.574,"end":41429.348,"text":"違反第一項規定外建立制度或前項辦法中有關制度之實施內容作業程序執行措施之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關限期令其改善藉其為發散者處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上、1000萬元以下罰款處指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元以下罰款並得按次處罰"},{"start":41431.289,"end":41448.901,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員規避、拒絕或妨礙限地或非限地查核者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上500萬元下發還處指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上250萬元下發還並得按次處罰"},{"start":41452.384,"end":41466.8,"text":"第8條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員應進行確認客戶身份程序並留存其確認客戶身份程序所得資料其確認客戶身份程序應以風險為基礎並應包括實施受益人質審查"},{"start":41469.202,"end":41486.14,"text":"傾向確認客戶身份程序所得資料因自業務關係終止時期至少保存5年臨時性交易者因自臨時性交易終止時期至少保存5年但法律另有較長保存期間規定者從其規定"},{"start":41490.12,"end":41508.525,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員﹐對信任或曾任國內外政府或國際組織重要政治性職務之客戶﹐或事務委員與其家庭成員及有密切關係之人﹐應以風險為基礎﹐執行加強客戶審查程序"},{"start":41509.725,"end":41536.356,"text":"第一項確認客戶身份範圍、留存確認資料之範圍、程序、方式及前項加強客戶審查之範圍、程序、方式之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關會商法務部及相關機關定之與訂定前應徵詢相關工會之意見前項重要政治性職務之人與其家庭成員及有密切關係之人之範圍由法務部定之"},{"start":41538.077,"end":41561.736,"text":"違反第一項至第三項規定或前項鎖定拜訪中有關確認客戶身份、留存確認資料、家長客戶審查之範圍、程序與方式之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元收益千萬元下發款除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元下發款並得按次處罰"},{"start":41564.093,"end":41582.41,"text":"第9條 為配合防止其前期打擊自控制國際合作金融目的事業主管機關及決定之非金融事業或人員之中央目的事業主管機關的自行或經營法務部調查局通報對其前或自控高風險國家或地區為下列措施"},{"start":41582.99,"end":41612.334,"text":"一、令金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員強化相關交易之確認客戶身份措施二、限制或禁止金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員與洗錢或滋控高風險國家或地區為匯款或其他交易三、採取其他與風險相當且有效之必要防制措施前項所稱洗錢或滋控高風險國家或地區指下列之一者"},{"start":41616.12,"end":41636.512,"text":"一、經國際防制洗錢組織公告防制洗錢及打擊滋控有嚴重缺失之國家或地區二、經國際防制洗錢組織公告未遵循或未充分遵循國際防制洗錢組織經營之國家或地區三、其他有具體事證任由洗錢及滋控高風險之國家或地區"},{"start":41637.913,"end":41656.699,"text":"第10條金融金融局決定之非金融事業或人員應執行業務而辦理國內外交易應留存必要交易記錄前項必要交易記錄之保存自交易完成時期應至少保存5年但法律令有交償保存期間規定者從其規定"},{"start":41657.959,"end":41683.935,"text":"第一項留存必要交易記錄之使用交易範圍、程序、方式之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、法務部及相關機關定之與訂定前應徵詢相關工會之意見違等第一項、第二項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關留存必要交易記錄之範圍、程序、方式之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關、儲金融機構、新台幣五千萬元上億千萬元下發還"},{"start":41684.915,"end":41710.52,"text":"除指定之非金融事業或人員信貸幣五萬元以上五百萬元向罰款並等案自處罰第11條非信託業之受託人與信託關係存續中必須取得並持有足夠證據與最新有關信託之委託人、受託人、輸贏人及任何其他最終有效控制信託之自然人之身份資訊"},{"start":41711.54,"end":41734.725,"text":"其持有其他信託代理人信託服務業者基本資訊前向受託人應就前向信託資訊進行申報並於資訊發生變更時主動更新申報資訊第一項非信託業之受託人以非信託業之指定之非金融事業或人員或其他法人為限其受理申報之機關如下"},{"start":41735.405,"end":41751.943,"text":"一、指定之非金融事業或人員擔任受託人者為各該業別之主管機關二、遣款以外之法人擔任受託人者為各該目的事業主管機關數多人自信託關係終止時期應保存第一項職資訊至少5年"},{"start":41754.005,"end":41782.646,"text":"第一項受託人以信託財產與金融機構指定之非金融事業或人員建立義務關係或進行打一定金額之臨時性交易時應主動揭露其在信託中之地位第二項是申報更新申報之範圍、方式、程序前項一定金額之範圍、揭露方式及其他應遵行事項之辦法由法務部會上相關機關定之違反第二項、第四項、第五項或前項鎖定辦法中"},{"start":41783.206,"end":41794.161,"text":"有關第二項申報更新申報之分為方式、程序或第五項揭露方式之規定者由第三項受理申報機關處新台幣5萬元以上、500萬元下滑關並得按次處罰"},{"start":41801.144,"end":41826.439,"text":"第12條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員對於達一定金額之通貨交易處本法另有規定外應向法務部調查局申報金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員依前項規定為申報者免除其業務上應保守秘密之義務該機構或事業之負責人、董事、經理人及職員一同"},{"start":41827.579,"end":41840.594,"text":"第一項擬定金額、通貨交易之範圍、種類、申報之範圍、方式、程序及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央目的事業主管機關、會商、法務部及相關機關頂知與訂定前應徵詢相關工會之意見"},{"start":41844.177,"end":41857.266,"text":"違反第一項規定或前項鎖定辦法中有關申報之範圍方式程序是規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處信用機構新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元以上罰款"},{"start":41859.544,"end":41880.374,"text":"處指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上500萬元下罰款並得按次處罰第13條金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員對疑似犯第19條、第20條之最終交易應向法務部調查局申報其交易為完整者異同"},{"start":41881.374,"end":41906.48,"text":"金融機構及指定之非金融事業或人員依前項規定為申報者免除其義務上應保守秘密之義務該機構或事業之負責人、董事、經理人及職員一同第一項之申報範圍、方式程序及其上應遵循時上市辦法由中央目的事業主管機關會商、法務部及相關機關領域之與訂定前應申詢相關工會之意見"},{"start":41907.7,"end":41931.318,"text":"前項第7條、第3項、第8條、第4項、第10條、第3項及前條、第3項之辦法其事務設司法院者由司法院會上行政院定之違反第一項規定或第三項所定辦法中有關申報之範圍、方式、程序之規定者由中央目的事業主管機關處金融機構新台幣50萬元以上、1千萬元下發還"},{"start":41932.299,"end":41958.099,"text":"除指定之非金融事業或人員新台幣5萬元以上500萬元下罰款並等案自處罰第14條與客戶隨交通工具服務之人員出入境攜帶下列之物應向海關申報海關受理申報後應向法務部調查局通報一、總價值達一定金額之外幣香港或澳門發行之貨幣及新台幣現金"},{"start":41960.381,"end":41980.813,"text":"2、總命而達一定金額之有價證券3、總價值達一定金額之黃金4、其他總價值達一定金額且有被利用進行洗錢之與之物品以貨物運送、快遞、郵寄或其他生類型方法運送且向各款物品出入境者依同"},{"start":41981.933,"end":42003.841,"text":"前二項注意定金額、有價證券、黃金、物品、座零申報與通報之範圍程序及其他應遵循市場資本法由財政部、匯商、法務部、中央銀行、金融監督管理委員會定之外幣、香港貨、澳門發行及貨幣為依第一項、第二項規定申報者其超過前項規定金額的部分"},{"start":42006.144,"end":42033.533,"text":"由海關募入之申報不實者其超過申報部分由海關募入之有價證券、黃金物品為依第一項第二項規定宣報或申報不實者由海關處以相當於其超過前項規定金額部分或申報不實之有價證券、黃金物品價額之罰還新台幣依第一項第二項規定宣報者超過中央銀行依中央銀行法第18條注意第一項鎖定性額部分應予退役"},{"start":42034.754,"end":42046.93,"text":"第一項第二項規定申報者其超過第三項規定進額部分由海關募入之申報不審者其超過申報部分由海關募入之均不使用中央銀行法第18條之一第二項規定"},{"start":42049.331,"end":42058.423,"text":"納諾地區發行之貨幣以第一項、第二項鎖定方式出入境應依台灣地區、大陸地區人民關係條例相關規定辦理總價值超過統條例第38條第5項鎖定限額時海關印象防護調查局通報"},{"start":42065.231,"end":42081.96,"text":"第15條 海關常務委員簽條第一項或第二項規定申報或申報不實之物應予扣留但該扣留之物為簽條第一項的管制務者其所有人、管理人或持有人得向海關申請提供足額支保證金准予撤銷、扣留後發還之"},{"start":42083.661,"end":42101.673,"text":"第16條海關1第14條第4項後段懲處罰款與處分書送達後為防止受處分人營利或移轉財產以逃避之行等免供單表向行政法院申請加工押或加處分但受處分人已提供相當單表者不在此限"},{"start":42103.374,"end":42132.183,"text":"第17條受理第12條、第13條申報及第14條通報之機關基於防制洗劫或打擊自控目的得就所受理申報通報之資料予以分析未辦理分析業務得向相關公務機關或分析公務機關調取必要之資料請向受理申報通報之機關就分析結果任由詐欺犯罪追討犯罪所得競選洗劫防制穩定金融秩序及淺化武器合作之必要時得分送國內外相關機關"},{"start":42133.343,"end":42148.981,"text":"相關公務機關禁於防制洗錢打擊私口目的或因其他法律規定本項第一項受理申報通報至機關查詢所受理申報通報至相關資料前三項資料與分析結果之種類、氛圍、運用、調取、分送、查詢之程序"},{"start":42149.542,"end":42175.052,"text":"方順其其他相關事項指本法由法務部定之第18條陳昌文與珍藏中有事實組任被告利用帳戶、匯款、通貨或其他支付工具判第19條或第20條之罪者得申請高官法院指定6個月以內之期間對該筆交易之財產為電子提款、轉帳、付款、交付轉帳或其他必要處分之命令"},{"start":42175.652,"end":42198.2,"text":"其情況及或有相當理由主任非立即為傷害命令不得不能保全的沒收之財產或證據者檢察官得禁命執行之但應於執行後3日內申請法院補發命令法院如不於3日內補發或檢察官未執行後3日內申請法院補發命令者應即停止執行"},{"start":42198.94,"end":42226.899,"text":"前項禁止提款轉賬、付款、交付、轉賬或其他必要處分之命令﹐法官與審判中得以職權為之前二項命令應與書面為之﹐並準用《刑事訴訟法》第128條規定第一項則決定期間﹐如有繼續延長之必要者﹐檢察官應檢附具體理由﹐正是於期間屆滿生前5日申請該管法院裁定﹐但延長期間不得於6個月﹐並以延長一次為限"},{"start":42228.34,"end":42252.088,"text":"對於外國政府機構或國際組織依第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與互惠原則形成我國協助徵案件如所涉之犯罪行為符合第3條所列之罪隨便在我國偵查或審判終者亦待准用前四項規定對第1項、第2項證明令和第4項裁定不符者准用刑事訴訟法第4編抗告之規定"},{"start":42253.769,"end":42273.105,"text":"第19條有第二條個款所列﹐期前行為者﹐處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑﹐並科新台幣1億元以下罰金﹐其期前捐贈或採取上利益﹐為達新台幣1億元者﹐處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑﹐並科新台幣5千萬元以下罰金﹐請向之未遂犯罰之"},{"start":42274.326,"end":42296.895,"text":"第20條 收受持有或使用之財權或財者上的利益﹐有下列情形之一而無合理來源者﹐處6月以上5年下有期徒刑﹐得併更新台幣5000萬元下罰金﹐一、冒名、假名或其他與身份相關之不實資訊﹐向金融機構提供虛擬支撐服務﹐或第三方支付服務之事業或人員申請開立帳戶、帳號"},{"start":42299.136,"end":42316.603,"text":"二、以不正方法取得使用他人向金融機構申請開支帳戶﹐向提供虛擬資產服務﹐或第三方支付服務之事業或人員申請支帳號﹐三、規避第8條、第10條至第13條﹐鎖定洗錢防制程序﹐傾向之未遂反罰之"},{"start":42318.703,"end":42336.551,"text":"第21條無正當理由收集他人向金融機構申請開立局賬戶﹐向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務徵事業或人員﹐申請局賬號﹐而有下列執行之意者﹐除5年下有期徒刑﹐遵意或跟我併格新台幣3000萬元下滑金﹐"},{"start":42337.091,"end":42359.699,"text":"一、冒用政府機關或公務員名義犯之二、以廣播電視、電子通訊、網信網路或其他媒體等傳播工具﹐對公眾散佈而犯之三、以電腦合成或其他科技方法﹐製作關於他人不適應效聲音或電子記錄之方法犯之四、以契約或交付對價﹐使他人交付或提供而犯之"},{"start":42360.579,"end":42385.551,"text":"5、以強暴脅迫詐術、監視、控制、引誘或其他不正方法的犯罪、傑向之未遂犯罰之第22條：任何人不得將自己或他人向金融機構申請開支帳戶向提供虛擬資產服務或第三方支付服務正式約會人員申請之帳號交付提供與他人使用但符合一般商業金融交易習慣"},{"start":42386.371,"end":42400.227,"text":"或經與親友兼性戀關係或其他正當旅遊者不在此限違反前項規定者由直轄市縣市政府警察機關財主告誡經財主告誡後逾5年再違反前項規定者意圖"},{"start":42401.528,"end":42424.637,"text":"違反第一項規定而有項鏈擬行追責﹑處3年下有期徒刑、追業或供貨併客新台幣100萬元下罰金一、其約貨輸售對價而犯之二、交付提供至帳戶或帳號合計3個以上三、禁止強勢縣市政府、警察機關因前項或第4項規定裁除後5年以內再犯前項第一款或第二款前行應依第二項規定由該管機關並與裁處之"},{"start":42427.778,"end":42456.334,"text":"違反第一項規定者﹐輕重機構提供虛擬資產服務﹐及第三方支付服務者事業或人員﹐應對其已開立之帳戶帳號﹐或予開立之新帳戶帳號﹐於一定期間內﹐暫停或限制該帳戶帳號之全部﹐或部分功能﹐或禁與關閉﹐其上帳戶帳號之暫定期準﹐暫停限制功能﹐或禁與關閉之期間範圍﹐程序﹐方式﹐作業程序之辦法"},{"start":42457.274,"end":42478.587,"text":"由法務部會同中央目的事業主管機關定之警政主管機關應會同社會福利主管機關建立個案通報機制與依第二項規定為構建處分室堂之性有社會救助需要之個人或家庭應通報指甲室縣市社會福利主管機關協助其獲得《社會救助法》鎖定社會救助"},{"start":42479.915,"end":42492.626,"text":"第23條法人均代表人、代理人、受惠人或其他從業人員應執行業務五分前四條制罪者處處罰行為人位對該法人並可以十倍影響罪罰金"},{"start":42494.574,"end":42513.505,"text":"但法人之代表人或自然人對於犯罪之發生以盡力為防止行為者不在此限判第19條是第21條徵罪與犯罪後自首如有所得並自動繳交全部所得財務者減輕或免除期刑兵而使司法警察機關或檢察官得以"},{"start":42514.346,"end":42541.437,"text":"後押全部起前尊財物或財產上利益或償獲其他證份或公範者免除其刑犯遣赤條之罪﹐在徵償及歷次審判中均自白者如有所得並自動繳交全部所得財物者檢清其刑兵額許司法警察、警官或檢察官等以後押全部起前尊財物或財產上利益或償獲其他證份或公範者檢清或免除其刑"},{"start":42542.197,"end":42563.525,"text":"第19條、第20條或第21條之罪與中華民國人民在中華民國領域外犯罪者使用之第19條之罪不以本法鎖定特定犯罪之行為或結果在中華民國領域內為必要但該特定犯罪依行為定之法律不法者不在此限"},{"start":42565.666,"end":42576.704,"text":"第24條公務員泄露或交副官員申報疑似犯第19條、第20條之罪之交易或犯第19條、第20條之罪嫌疑之文書"},{"start":42580.917,"end":42596.313,"text":"圖畫消息或物品者處3點下有期徒刑第5條第1項之第3項不具公務員身份之人洩漏或交付官員申報疑性犯第19條第20條之罪之詔意或犯例19條第20條之罪嫌疑之"},{"start":42597.174,"end":42624.031,"text":"文書、圖畫、消息或物品者﹐處案臨下有期徒刑、拘役或薪條逼50萬元下罰金第25條 範例19條第20條知罪﹐洗錢捐財物或財產上利益﹐不問屬於犯罪行為人與否沒收之範例19條或第20條知罪﹐由事實足以證明行為人所在支配之前項規定﹐以外捐財物或財產上利益﹐"},{"start":42624.591,"end":42646.986,"text":"借取自其他違反行為所得者、沒收之：對於外國政府、機構或國際組織：第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與會員則請求我國協助執行後押後沒收之案件如所涉之犯罪行為符合第三條所列之罪：不以在我國偵查或審判終者為謝"},{"start":42649.775,"end":42666.107,"text":"第26條但本法之罪沒收之犯罪所得為現金或有價證券以外之財務者等由法務部撥交檢查機關、司法警察機關或其他協助查緝嫌犯罪之機關作公務上使用"},{"start":42666.747,"end":42693.995,"text":"我國與外國政府經過或國際組織 國際組織依第28條所簽訂之條約或協定或經與互惠原則協助執行沒收犯罪所得或其他追討犯罪所得作為者法務部等依條約、協定或互惠原則將該沒收財產之全部或一部撥交該外國政府經過或國際組織或請求撥交沒收財產之全部或一部款項"},{"start":42695.795,"end":42721.932,"text":"請人向募收財產之報銷辦法由行政院定之﹐第27條﹐法務部辦理防制洗錢業務的設置基金﹐第28條﹐為防止洗錢政府依互惠原則﹐等與外國政府、金融或國際組織簽訂防制洗錢之條約或協定﹐對於外國政府、金融或國際組織﹐請求我國協助政案件﹐除條約或協定另有規定準位﹐"},{"start":42722.452,"end":42740.139,"text":"得盡予互惠原則提供第12條之第14條處理什麼或通報這資料及其調查結果依第一項規定以外之其他條約或協定所交換之資訊能給予互惠原則為防制洗劫或打擊滋口墓地之用"},{"start":42741.099,"end":42755.156,"text":"但依該條約或協定規定﹐禁止或依符合一定要件﹐取得為特定目的外之用者從其規定臺灣地區與大陸地區﹐香港及澳門間之洗錢防制﹐全用前三項規定"},{"start":42757.526,"end":42783.06,"text":"第29條 外政辦席檢犯罪檢察官得意之權或依司法檢察官申請提書控制下交付之偵查計劃書並檢附相關資料報請檢察長核稿後核發偵查指揮書前項控制下交付之偵查計劃書應記載下列事項一、犯罪行人或被告人聯繫資料二、所犯罪名三、所涉犯罪事實"},{"start":42784.161,"end":42796.754,"text":"4、使用控制上交付調查犯罪之必要性5、洗錢行為、探樣、標的及數量6、偵查犯罪所需期間、方法及其他作為、侵其他必要之事項"},{"start":42799.574,"end":42828.742,"text":"第30條第7條第2項是查核第7條第4項第5項第8條第5項第10條第4項第12條第4項第13條第5項之採取及其調查中央目的事業主管機關等委辦直轄市縣市政府辦理並由直轄市縣市政府定期呈報查核成效第31條本法除第6條及第11條之施行日期由行政院定之外"},{"start":42829.262,"end":42845.334,"text":"自公佈日事行宣讀完畢委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無文字修正沒有文字修正我們決議洗錢防治法修正通過"},{"start":42849.4,"end":42873.897,"text":"報告委員會 邱志偉委員聲明剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報報告委員會 我們繼續處理審查會及協商結論通過之附帶決議請議事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容審查會通過附帶決議二項一 請法務部與內政部警政署針對性質為行政處分之告誡"},{"start":42875.067,"end":42896.254,"text":"嚴釐相關救濟程序並加強宣導相關行政救濟程序並於告誡處分書以明顯可知之方式標明相關行政救濟程序及告誡效果與當面交付受告誡者情形得以延遲告知相關程序二、要求金融監督管理委員會針對研議"},{"start":42900.245,"end":42910.637,"text":"虛擬資產專法草案資架構內容草案審議進度草案擬具過程在草案提出前每6個月向立法院相關委員會提出報告"},{"start":42913.406,"end":42939.302,"text":"寫章結論通過附帶決議事項一、數位發展部應於本法修正通過兩年內會上金融監督管理委員會提出第三方支付服務業之管理規則並共同於六個月內第三方支付服務之洗錢防制相關監管業務以致金融監督管理委員會進行研議提出書面報告送交立法院二"},{"start":42940.977,"end":42955.262,"text":"數位發展部應於6個月內﹐針對電子商務平台及第三方支付業者之管理研議﹐建立適當內控制度及管理機制﹐並確實落實3.數位發展部會商經濟部應於6個月內﹐"},{"start":42958.919,"end":42984.938,"text":"研議對電商平台建立相關管理規範並督導第三方支付服務業者對電商平台落實KYC之可行性要求數位發展部、會商經濟部、經管會及相關部會應於6個月內就未完成登錄之處罰以及管制不得及時兌付等事項共同研議相關管理規範選讀完畢"},{"start":42988.103,"end":43007.943,"text":"本院會依協商結論均照案通過本院會廖先祥委員聲明對剛才表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄本院會完成立法程序後發言首先我們請吳宗憲委員發言黃珊珊委員請準備"},{"start":43023.075,"end":43048.058,"text":"向全國人民報告國內詐欺犯行橫行已成民怨之首只是單獨通過的打詐法案包括詐欺專法以及洗錢防治法使人欣慰原本應該開心但是本席也是覺得沉重畢竟在如此朝野皆對抗下能夠有法案順利過關都實屬難得但是立法院多年來對於"},{"start":43049.577,"end":43065.705,"text":"修法義務的怠惰其實使詐欺案件數節節高升這次執政黨願意修法其實背後都是許多家庭被騙之後的血淚翻開過去的故事很多家庭因為被詐騙之後而自殺"},{"start":43066.886,"end":43092.14,"text":"如果我們執政黨能夠早點重視民生的法案早點回憶也許可以救下更多的家庭根據刑事局2023年一整年民眾被詐騙案件的統計被詐騙的金額高達88.78億元總件數也達3萬件都創史上新高所以打仗打了這麼多年這麼多的打仗辦公室究竟成效如何其實數據都會說話"},{"start":43094.541,"end":43114.167,"text":"對於詐騙我們的要求非常的簡單就是騙得越多就要關得越久我們要追回所有的詐騙金額這樣才是對人民有所交代這次三讀通過立法之後還有一些需要精進的作為例如針對目前第三方支付業者真正有能量登錄通過的"},{"start":43114.867,"end":43116.948,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43132.894,"end":43152.787,"text":"造成成本的浪費然後勞民傷財一切從源頭管理請記住民生要大於政治人民要大於政黨我們一起對好人更好對壞人更壞謝謝各位謝謝吳宗憲委員的發言接著請黃珊珊委員發言請鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":43161.958,"end":43178.403,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝各位同仁我們很欣慰今天《刑前防治法》通過那剛剛大家所表決的這個法案我要在這邊特別的再強調為什麼台灣民眾黨非常堅持要在第19條要把它修正的加重因為"},{"start":43180.044,"end":43196.442,"text":"審查會通過的條文裡面很清楚他是一年以上七年以下但是我們的條文是三年以上十年以下這是在一億元以上的洗錢犯如果按照原來的版本一年以上七年以下洗錢大戶是有機會透過"},{"start":43199.322,"end":43214.401,"text":"認罪協商甚至去罰錢他就可以免於刑責可以緩起訴可以緩刑所以我們的法條修得非常清楚我們必須要在最低本刑三年以上我們才能夠懲戒所謂的洗錢大戶"},{"start":43215.222,"end":43215.642,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43237.933,"end":43252.861,"text":"這個《洗錢防治法》從頭到尾都在幫金管會擦屁股為什麼?他把虛擬資產業者放進來管一部《洗錢防治法》本來應該好好的去規範洗錢的行為但是我們成為了虛擬資產業者的管理辦法"},{"start":43255.322,"end":43281.729,"text":"所以剛剛聽到了那麼多的附帶決議全部都是在幫金管會在這麼多年以來忽略了新興通路忽略了相關的新興的產業他們對於洗錢的行為這些防制作為金管會視而不見沒有看見所以剛剛下了非常多的決議要他們在6個月之內包括第三方支付包括數位資產、虛擬資產這些都必須要列入管理"},{"start":43282.569,"end":43303.644,"text":"監管會把責任推給了法務部這部洗錢防治法謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來請鍾嘉斌委員請發言"},{"start":43311.479,"end":43327.97,"text":"主席在討論先進《洗錢防制法》三讀通過這是草野共同努力的結果雖然這版本跟民進黨的修正動議有段距離但是我們仍然期待未來洗房的業務能夠持續的精進國家防詐、打詐國家隊的進行"},{"start":43331.753,"end":43348.135,"text":"那麼我還是要重申其實剛剛誠如黃珊珊委員所說的洗錢它是一個複雜的產業關係有程度不一的參與者那麼透過適當的刑度切割我們可以讓不同的參與者得到應有的懲罰"},{"start":43349.136,"end":43354.158,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":43372.043,"end":43399.675,"text":"這些涉嫌人那麼因此呢我們對於啊為能夠保留為能夠保留我們條文當中一年以上七年以下這個刑法當中應有的刑度而直接拉高到三年以上十年以下呢還是覺得有點遺憾不過誠如剛剛黃委員所說的後面後續的這四個附帶決議都代表著民進黨對於打詐防詐防制洗錢我們所做的努力對於任何新興的金融機構或是相關的"},{"start":43400.895,"end":43426.958,"text":"致富行業包括電商平台包括第三方支付包括電子支付我們都認為未來仍有待相關主管機關持續的努力洗錢防治法不是到今天為止我們希望未來透過更完整的修法再參著日後執行的必要我們能夠進一步的將洗錢防治業務做必要的分析跟分割也未來呢讓這個法條能夠精進有助於包括所有的執法機關能夠"},{"start":43428.759,"end":43432.162,"text":"幫助國人永遠免除被詐欺的噩夢以上謝謝"},{"start":43447.737,"end":43460.77,"text":"協商後提出本次會議來處理報告院會本案因協商過一個月時間無法達成共識依立法院職權新設法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理"},{"start":43461.363,"end":43487.318,"text":"因此於本次會議提出討論現在進行廣泛討論沒有任何黨團推派委員發言報告委員會現有台灣民眾黨黨團依據立法院職權新司法第9條規定提議將本案重複審查請問委員會有無異議沒有異議沒有異議那我們本案我們就退回委員會重新審查"},{"start":43489.005,"end":43501.779,"text":"報告委員會我們進入討論事項第32案刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案報告委員會本案因為超過一個月時間無法達成共識依立法院職權刑事法第71條之1規定"},{"start":43504.363,"end":43527.822,"text":"由院會定期處理：原於本次會期提出討論：現在進行廣泛討論：沒有任何黨團推派委員來發言報院會現在本案有三個黨團共同所提修正動議本案逐條討論時竟依依照三個黨黨團共同修正動議來處理行事訴訟法請宣讀"},{"start":43532.947,"end":43554.762,"text":"第七十條之一第七十條之一第六十七條之一第六十九條之規定於此物申請串銷或變更檢查事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察處分之期間者准用之宣讀完畢照審查會條文通過請宣讀增訂第十章之一"},{"start":43555.882,"end":43559.724,"text":"第11章之一特殊強制處分宣讀完畢"},{"start":43565.034,"end":43592.406,"text":"委員吳宗憲等提案徵定153條之一 照三黨團修正動議不予徵定台灣民眾黨黨團提案徵定第153條之一吳宗憲等提案徵定第153之二 照三個黨團修正動議不予徵定台灣民眾黨黨團提案徵定第153條之二 照三個黨團修正動議通過不予徵定請宣讀"},{"start":43594.141,"end":43599.185,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團吳宗憲委員分別提案增訂第153條之3第153條之1153條之3"},{"start":43667.54,"end":43683.291,"text":"第153條之一為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時得使用全球衛星定位系統或其他非以辨識個人生物特徵之科技方法對被告或犯罪行為人追蹤位置"},{"start":43684.331,"end":43709.082,"text":"對第3人實施前項調查已有相當理由可信與被告犯罪嫌疑人、證人或因扣押之物或電子紀錄有所關聯時違憲前二項實施期間不得於連續24小時或累計於2日實施當日不足24小時以一日計由再次或繼續實施之必要者致詞應於再次實施前或期間屆滿前"},{"start":43710.442,"end":43725.557,"text":"由檢察官依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載第153條之五第一項各款之事實與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":43726.998,"end":43743.386,"text":"實施第一項、第二項調查前﹐可預期實施期間﹐將於連續24小時或累計於二日者﹐得於實施前﹐依前項規定向該委員法院申請合法許可書﹐前二項法院許可之期間﹐每次不得於30日﹐"},{"start":43744.406,"end":43760.171,"text":"有繼續實施之必要者﹐致時應於期間屆滿專案日前﹐由檢察官依職權或由司法警察官報請檢察官許可後﹐以書面記載具體理由﹐向該委員法院申請合法許可書宣讀完畢"},{"start":43763.598,"end":43769.467,"text":"照三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之一請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團吳宗憲委員分別提案增訂第153條之四"},{"start":43778.123,"end":43794.265,"text":"第153條之二為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時得使用科技方法調查被告或犯罪行人管理或使用之行動通訊設備之位置、設備號碼或使用之卡片號碼"},{"start":43795.386,"end":43809.602,"text":"對第三人管理或使用者行動通訊設備之位置﹐設備號碼或使用者卡片號碼實施前項調查﹐已有相當理由可信與被告﹐犯罪行人證人或因扣押之物﹐或電磁記錄有所關聯是違憲﹐"},{"start":43811.244,"end":43834.933,"text":"前二項情形應由檢察官依依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載第153條之五第一項各款之事實至四項與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該委員法院申請合法許可書前項許可書期間每次不得於30日由繼續實施之必要者"},{"start":43835.453,"end":43862.813,"text":"致詞應於期間屆滿至2日前由檢察官一職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載具體理由向邊外法院申請合法許可書實施第一項第二項調查時應記住上無可避免取得非受調查人之個人資料除為供第一項第二項之比對目的外不得使用且於調查實施結束後應即刪除宣讀完畢"},{"start":43864.212,"end":43869.954,"text":"到三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之二請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團吳宗憲委員等分別提案增訂第153條之五"},{"start":43880.475,"end":43905.937,"text":"第153條之五為為調查最重本行五年以上有期徒刑之罪有相當理由可信被告或犯罪行人管領或使用具隱私或秘密合理其他之空間內之人或物與本案有關得從該空間外使用非實體侵入性之科技方法對該空間內之人或物監看或"},{"start":43906.797,"end":43923.135,"text":"監看及攝錄影像：對於第三人管領或使用具隱私或秘密合理其在住空間內之人或物實施前項調查：也有事實主任與被告、犯罪行人、證人或因扣押之物或電子記錄有所關聯時違憲"},{"start":43925.177,"end":43946.571,"text":"前二項進行應由檢察官依職權或由司法警察官報請檢察官許可後引書面記載第153條之五第一項各款徵事項與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書前項許可書期間每次不得逾30日有繼續實施之必要者"},{"start":43947.051,"end":43964.919,"text":"致詞應於期間屆滿之二日前由檢察官依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載具體理由向該管法院申請合法許可書宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為153條之3請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之6"},{"start":43976.021,"end":43989.052,"text":"第153條之6對軍事上應秘密之處所﹐非得該館長官允許﹐不得實施前條之調查﹐傑向僅行除有防害國家重大利益者外﹐不得拒絕宣讀完畢"},{"start":43990.649,"end":43996.112,"text":"照三個黨團修正動議條文通過,條次修正為第153條之4請宣讀,台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之7吳宗憲委員等提案增訂第153條之6請宣讀第153條之7"},{"start":44015.717,"end":44038.462,"text":"第153條之一至第153條之三之許可書應記載下列事項一、案有及涉犯之法條二、受調查人或物但受調查人不明者得不予記載三、使用之調查方法及使用該方法調查得取得之標的四、儘管之調查方法、裝飾或實施方式"},{"start":44039.522,"end":44067.989,"text":"5.執行機關6.實施期間合法許可書之程序不公開之法院必得於許可書上對執行人員為適當之指示第153條之一至第153條之三之申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符檢察官或合法許可書之法官等命執行機關提出執行期限之報告執行機關應與執行期間內依檢察官或法官指示作成報告書"},{"start":44069.17,"end":44088.332,"text":"說明執行行為之進行情形：以及有無繼續執行之需要：合法許可出示法官：並等於發現有不應繼續執行之情況時徵銷原合法之許可第128條諸二之規定與實施本章規定之調查時准用之宣讀完畢"},{"start":44089.093,"end":44094.681,"text":"照《三黨團修正動議條文》通過條次修正為第153條之5請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之8吳宗憲等委員提案增訂第153條之7"},{"start":44109.262,"end":44129.77,"text":"第153條之8與下列起刑之一檢察官檢查稅務官司法檢察官或司法警察有相當理由認為情況急迫而有立即實施之必要者得進行實施並於實施後三日內依各該條規定以書面申請該委員法院不發許可書"},{"start":44132.623,"end":44157.322,"text":"實施第153條之一之調查已於連續24小時或已累計於二日實施當日不足24小時以一日計二實施第153條之二、第153條之三之調查前項之調查有項鍊其行之一者應即停止實施一檢察官不許可獲予報請日其餘三日未為許可之決定二"},{"start":44157.822,"end":44173.957,"text":"法院未補發許可書未於申請日期逾3日未為補發許可書自裁定法院補發許可書者實施期間自實施之日起算第1項之申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符宣讀完畢"},{"start":44174.998,"end":44189.169,"text":"照三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之6請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之9吳宗憲等委員提案增訂第153條之8台灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之9委員吳宗憲等20人提案第153條之8"},{"start":44201.994,"end":44228.766,"text":"今法院依第153條之一至第153條之三及前條核發或不發許可書實施之調查結束或依前條第二項停止實施後執行機關應續名授調查人之姓名、住所或居所許可書核發、機關文號實際調查期間有無獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序呈報該管檢察官及法院由法院通知授調查人"},{"start":44229.306,"end":44244.873,"text":"如任通知有防害調查目的之餘﹐通知顯有困難或不能通知者﹐應一併呈報調查結束或停止實施後﹐執行機關於一個月未為前項之呈報者﹐法院應於14日內主動通知受調查人﹐"},{"start":44245.493,"end":44261.954,"text":"但通知顯有困難或不能通知者﹐法院得不通知受調查人﹐法院對於第一項呈報﹐除有具體理由足證通知﹐有妨害調查目的之餘﹐通知顯有困難或不能通知之情形外﹐應通知受調查人"},{"start":44262.995,"end":44279.395,"text":"第一項不通知之原因消滅後執行機關應呈報法院補刑通知原因未消滅者應於第一項呈報後每三個月向法院呈報未消滅之情形與其未呈報者法院應於14日內主動通知受調查人"},{"start":44280.596,"end":44294.788,"text":"實施第153條之一之調查未於連續24小時或為未於累積二日者除通知有妨害調查目的之餘通知型有困難或不能通知之情形外應由執行機關與調查結束後一個月內"},{"start":44297.37,"end":44316.625,"text":"虛名受調查人之姓、名、住所或居所實際調查期間有無獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序通知受調查人並應每3個月檢視部通知知情形是否消滅如故通知之情形已消滅應即通知受調查人宣讀完畢"},{"start":44318.137,"end":44321.02,"text":"報告三黨團修正動議條文通過條次修正為第153條之7請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之10"},{"start":44331.168,"end":44349.586,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之10實施第153條之1至第153條之3及第153條之6調查所的資料與本案有關者除法律令有規定外應留存該案捲綜供本案偵查審判使用"},{"start":44350.066,"end":44371.844,"text":"不得作為其他程序之證據或其他用途實施第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所的其他案件資料不得作為證據對於實施期間屆滿後30日內埔行純報法院並經法院審查認可該案件與本案具有關聯性"},{"start":44373.705,"end":44402.435,"text":"或為最重本刑5年以上之罪者不在此限誰是第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所的資料除符合前二項情形外應即銷毀或刪除之不得作為司法偵查、審判其他程序之證據或其他用途但以供另案遵辦使用者不在此限第二項之呈報經法院補回者不得聲明不符"},{"start":44403.015,"end":44414.647,"text":"宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動力條文通過條次修正為第153條之8請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之11吳宗憲委員等提案增訂第153條之9"},{"start":44421.788,"end":44443.583,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之11委員吳宗憲等20人提案第153條之9為執行刑事裁判除其他法律領有規定外法官檢察官檢查事務官司法檢察官或司法警察而以本章式規定實施調查宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過修正條次為"},{"start":44446.894,"end":44458.094,"text":"修正為第153條之9請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案增訂第153條之12吳宗憲委員等提案增訂第153條之10"},{"start":44460.966,"end":44476.597,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第153條之二委員吳宗憲等人提案第153條之十受調查人及被告或犯罪嫌疑人之辯護人對於法官、檢察官依本章所為之裁定或處分"},{"start":44477.097,"end":44491.742,"text":"能向該管法院提起抗抗或申請串銷或變更之前向提起抗抗或申請期間為10日﹐自送達後起算﹐法院不得已以執行終結而無實意為由撥回第409條之第414條﹐第417條﹐第418條﹐第二項規定與本條準用之﹐對於第一項制裁定不得聲明不符"},{"start":44500.425,"end":44517.176,"text":"依本章實施調查之方式﹐所得資料之保存﹐管理及銷毀﹐存報與通知、救濟、監督及其他相關事項之辦法﹐由司法院會同行政院定之﹐宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過﹐條次修正為第153條之10﹐請宣讀第245條"},{"start":44522.827,"end":44549.273,"text":"第245條偵查不公開之被告或犯罪行人事辯護人等於檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察詢問該被告或犯罪行人事在場並得筆記及陳述意見但有事實足證其有防害國家機密或有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或勾充共犯或證人或防害他人名譽之餘或其行為不足"},{"start":44551.536,"end":44575.094,"text":"或其行為不當足以影響偵查秩序者得限制或禁止之前項限制或禁止是由應記名與筆錄檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察依第二項單書禁止辯護人在場致被告或犯罪行人或其他辯護人在場陪同應在行告示第95條第一項第二環第三環之事項"},{"start":44576.395,"end":44597.826,"text":"檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官、司法警察、滅戶人、高速代理人或其他與偵查程序依法執行職務之人員除依法令或為維護公共利益或保護合法權益有必要者外偵查中因執行職務窒息之事項不得公安或揭露與執行法定職務必要範圍以外之人員"},{"start":44599.226,"end":44618.937,"text":"偵查中詢問被告或犯罪嫌疑人士應將詢問之日時及處所通知辯護人但情況急迫者不在此限第一項偵查不公開作業辦法由司法院會同行政院定之宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過請宣讀增訂第245條之一"},{"start":44625.233,"end":44648.567,"text":"第245條之一被告犯罪嫌疑人及其辯護人對於前條第二項單書之限制或禁止不服者得向根管法院申請撤銷或變更之前項申請期間為10日自為限制或禁止之日起算請為送達者自送達後起算法院不得以執行終結而無實意為由駁回第409條至第414條第417條、第418條第二項規定與本條準用之"},{"start":44655.191,"end":44668.941,"text":"對於一定項制裁定不得抗告宣讀完畢照三黨團修正動議條文通過第416條維持現行條文報告委員會全案經過二讀現有民進黨黨團、國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團三個黨團共同提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有異議沒有異議請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":44682.708,"end":44701.319,"text":"第70條之一第67條是第69條是規定致詞物與此物申請秤算或變更檢查事務官、司法檢察官或司法檢察處分之期間者准用之第11章之一特殊強制處分"},{"start":44702.745,"end":44717.731,"text":"第153條之一為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時得使用全球衛星定位系統或其他非以辨識個人生物特徵之科技方法對被告或犯罪嫌疑人追蹤位置"},{"start":44718.671,"end":44743.253,"text":"對第3人實施前項調查已有相當理由可信與被告、分罪行人、真人或因公押之誤或電子記錄有所關聯時違憲前二項實施期間不得於連續24小時或累計於2日實施當日不足24小時已依日記有再次或繼續實施之必要者至此應於再次實施前或期間屆滿前"},{"start":44744.634,"end":44761.773,"text":"由檢察官依職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後以書面記載第153條之五第一項任款之事項與實施調查之必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44763.615,"end":44790.931,"text":"實施第一項、第二項調查前﹐可預期實施期間﹐將於連續24小時﹐或累計逾2日者﹐得於實施前﹐依前項規定向該管法院﹐申請合法許可書前一項法院許可書﹐期間﹐每次不得逾30日﹐有繼續實施之必要者﹐致實應於期間屆滿至2日前﹐由檢察官移植權﹐或由司法警察官﹐報請檢察官許可後﹐"},{"start":44791.491,"end":44817.783,"text":"以書面記載具體理由向該管法院申請合法許可書第153條之二為調查犯罪情形或搜集證據任有必要時﹐則使用科技方法調查被告或犯罪行人管理或使用之行動通訊設備之位置﹐設備號碼或使用之卡片號碼﹐對地鄉人管理或使用之行動通訊設備之位置﹐"},{"start":44818.923,"end":44845.199,"text":"設備號碼或使用之卡片號碼實施前項調查已有相當理由可信與被告分罪行人、證人或因扣押事物或電子記錄有所關聯時文獻前二項情形應由檢察官依依職權或由司法警察官報警檢察官許可後已書面介在第153條之五第一項各款之事項與實施調查之必要性及其理由"},{"start":44846.099,"end":44865.88,"text":"向該委員法院申請合法許可書請向許可書期間每次不得逾30日由繼續實施之必要者支持英語期間屆滿至2日前由檢察官依職權或由司法警察官報請檢察官許可後引書面記載具體理由向該委員法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44867.362,"end":44881.604,"text":"實施第一項、第二項調查時﹐應技術上無可避免取得非受調查人之個人資料﹐除未供第一項、第二項之比對目的外不得使用﹐且於調查實施結束後應即刪除"},{"start":44885.678,"end":44898.417,"text":"153 為調查最重本行五年以上有期徒刑之罪﹐有相當理由可信被告或犯罪行人﹐管領或使用具隱私或秘密合理其他之﹐空間內之人或物與本案有關"},{"start":44899.398,"end":44921.411,"text":"得從該空間外使用非實體侵入性質科技方法﹐對該空間內之人或物監看及攝錄影像﹐對於第三人管理或使用具隱私或秘密合理其他之空間內之人或物實施前項調查﹐也有事實主任與被告﹐分罪行人證人或因扣押之物﹐或電子記錄有所關聯時違憲﹐"},{"start":44924.793,"end":44940.261,"text":"前兩項進行應由檢察官一職權或由司法檢察官報請檢察官許可後已書面記載第153條之五第一項各款知識項與實施調查這必要性及其理由向該管法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44941.421,"end":44958.431,"text":"前項許可之期間﹐每次不得於30日﹐有繼續實施之必要者﹐至此應於﹐期間屆滿12日前﹐由檢察官應職權﹐或由司法檢察官﹐報請檢察官許可後﹐以書面記載具體理由﹐向該會法院申請合法許可書"},{"start":44960.154,"end":44972.977,"text":"第153條之4對軍事上應秘密接觸所﹐非得該管長官允許不得實施前條之調查前項進行除有防害國家重大利益者外不得拒絕"},{"start":44974.795,"end":44997.871,"text":"第153條之5、第153條之1至第153條之3之許可書應記載下列事項一、案由及示範之法條二、受調查人或物、但受調查人不明者得目與記載三、使用之調查方法及使用該方法調查得取得之標的"},{"start":44999.713,"end":45003.055,"text":"4.檢管時調查方法、裝飾或實施方式5."},{"start":45003.055,"end":45004.616,"text":"執行機關6."},{"start":45004.616,"end":45012.38,"text":"實施期間合法許可書這程序不公開之法院並得予許可書上對執行人員為適當之指示第153條 至申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符"},{"start":45020.506,"end":45034.507,"text":"檢察官或核發許可書致法官等命執行機關提出執行情形之報告執行機關應與執行期間內依檢察官或法官指示作成報告書說明執行行為之致進行情形"},{"start":45035.589,"end":45052.164,"text":"以及有無繼續執行之需要合法許可書之法官﹐並得於發現有不應繼續執行之情況時﹐撤銷原合法之許可第128條諸二之規定﹐與實施本章規定之調查時準用之第153條之六"},{"start":45055.936,"end":45073.621,"text":"於下列情形之一檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察有相當理由認為情況急迫而有利其實施之必要者得進行實施並因於實施後三室內依各該條規定引書面申請該委員法院補發許可書"},{"start":45075.001,"end":45101.622,"text":"一、實施第153條之一之調查已於連續24小時或已累計於2日實施當日不足24小時已於日計二、實施第153條之二、第153條之三之調查其中之調查有下列進行之一者應即停止實施一、檢查會不許可或於報請日期"},{"start":45104.441,"end":45123.533,"text":"或於報請日期逾3日未為許可之決定二、法院未補發許可書或於申請日期逾3日未為補發許可書之裁定法院補發許可書者實施期間自實施之日起算第一項之申請經法院補回者不得聲明不符"},{"start":45125.205,"end":45152.589,"text":"第一百五十三條之七經法院依第一百五十三條注意至第一百五十三條之三即檢調核發或補發許可書實施至調查結束或依檢調第二項停止實施後執行機關應續名授調查人之姓名、住所或居所許可書核發、機關文號實施調查期間由獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序呈報該管檢察官及法院"},{"start":45153.149,"end":45176.528,"text":"由法院通知受調查人如任通知有防害調查目的之餘﹐通知行有困難或不能通知者﹐應疑並呈報調查結束或停止實施後﹐執行機關於一個月未為結箱之呈報者﹐法院應於14日內﹐主動通知受調查人﹐但通知行有困難或不能通知者﹐法院得不通知受調查人"},{"start":45177.228,"end":45205.282,"text":"法院對於第一項呈報除有具體理由足證通知有妨害調查目的之餘通知行有困難或不能通知之情形外應通知受調查人第一項目通知之原因消滅後執行機關應呈報法院補習通知原因未消滅者應於第一項呈報後每三個月向法院呈報未消滅之情形與其未呈報者法院應於14日內主動通知受調查人"},{"start":45206.603,"end":45222.604,"text":"實施第153條之一之調查未於連續24小時或未於累計2日者除通知有妨害調查目的之餘通知顯有困難或不能通知之情形外應由執行機關於調查結束後一個月內"},{"start":45223.565,"end":45241.115,"text":"虛名受調查人之姓名、住所或居所﹐實際調查期間﹐有無獲得調查目的之資料及救濟程序﹐通知受調查人﹐並應每3個月檢視不通知之情形是否消滅﹐如不通知之情形已消滅﹐應即通知受調查人"},{"start":45242.662,"end":45262.777,"text":"第一百五十三條之八實施第一百五十三條之一至第一百五十三條之三及第一百五十三條之六調查所的資料與本案有關者屬法律另有規定外應留隨個案卷宗供本案偵查審判使用不得作為其他程序之證據或其他用途"},{"start":45263.537,"end":45273.882,"text":"實施第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所得其他案件則不得作為證據但予實施期間屆滿後30日內補刑呈報法院"},{"start":45279.685,"end":45299.372,"text":"並經法院審查認可該案件與本案具有關聯性或為罪重本行5年以上之罪者不在此限實施第153條之一至第153條之三及第153條之六調查所的資料除符合前二項情形外因其銷毀或刪除之"},{"start":45300.532,"end":45327.173,"text":"不得作為司法偵查、審判其他程序之證據或其他用途但以供另案遵辦使用者不再辭現第二項制審報經法院補回者不得聲明不符第153條之9為執行刑事裁判除其他法律另有規定為法官檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官或司法警察等依本章制規定實施調查"},{"start":45329.284,"end":45350.071,"text":"第153條之十﹐受調查人及被告或犯罪行人之辯護人﹐對於法官檢察官依本章所為之裁定或處分﹐得向該管法院提起抗告或申請撤銷或變更之﹐其向提起抗告或申請期間為10日﹐自送達後起算﹐法院不得以"},{"start":45352.592,"end":45379.89,"text":"以執行終結而無實役為由駁回第409條出第414條第417條、第418條第二項規定與本條準用之對於一定項制裁定不得聲明不符依本章實施調查之方式所得資料之保存管理及銷毀、承包、通知、救濟監督及其他相關事項之本法由司法院會同行政院定之"},{"start":45381.271,"end":45402.23,"text":"第245條 偵查不公開之﹐被告或犯罪行人事辯護人﹐等於檢察官、檢察事務官﹐司法檢察官或司法警察﹐詢問該被告或犯罪行人時在場﹐並得筆記及陳述意見﹐但有事實足證其有防害國家機密﹐或有湮滅、偽造、編造證據﹐"},{"start":45404.191,"end":45428.838,"text":"或勾串共犯或證人或妨害他人名譽之餘﹐目前行為不到足以影響偵查秩序者﹐得限制或禁止之前項限制或禁止是有應記名與筆錄檢察官檢查事務官﹐司法檢察官或司法警察﹐依第二項單書禁止編護人在場﹐致被告或犯罪行人﹐或其他編護人在場白頭"},{"start":45430.238,"end":45450.885,"text":"應在行告知第95條第一項、第二款、第三款知識上檢察官、檢察事務官、司法檢察官、司法檢察、滅戶人、告訴代理人或其他與偵查程序依法執行職務之人員除依法令或為維護公共利益或保護合法權益有必要者為"},{"start":45451.765,"end":45475.41,"text":"偵查中應執行職務窒息之事項﹐不得公開或揭露與執行法定職務必要範圍以外之人員偵查中詢問被告或犯罪嫌疑人士﹐應將詢問之日時及處所通知辯護人﹐但其刑急迫者不在此限第一項偵查不公開作業辦法由司法院會同行政院定之"},{"start":45477.321,"end":45496.34,"text":"第二百四十五條之一被告犯罪行為人及其辯護人對於前條第二項單書之限制或禁止不服者則向根管法院申請撤銷或變更之曾向申請期間為十日自為限制或禁止之日起算其為送達者自送達後起算"},{"start":45496.94,"end":45521.577,"text":"法院不得以以執行終結而無實役為由撥回第409條至第414條第417條、第418條第二項規定與本條準用之對於第一項制裁定不得抗告宣讀完畢辦會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有文字修正"},{"start":45522.878,"end":45533.803,"text":"沒有文字修正我們作以下決議行事訴訟法增訂第70條之1條文第11章之1章名第153條之1至153條之10及第245條之1條文並將第245條條文修正通過歡迎先讓我們進行"},{"start":45549.963,"end":45578.726,"text":"完成立法程序後發言美委委員發言兩分鐘首先我們請黃國昌委員發言莊瑞雄委員請準備院長、本院委員歷經了多年的等待"},{"start":45579.96,"end":45591.796,"text":"我國的《刑事訴訟法》終於在今天賦予了科技偵查手段法源基礎這是一部遲到太久的法案"},{"start":45592.981,"end":45621.206,"text":"我希望利用三讀後發言的機會把這個遲到太久的法案向我們所有基層的檢察官、調查員還有警察致上最高的敬意謝謝你們辛苦的在第一線幫我們打擊犯罪但我同時也希望利用這個機會讓下他們深深的致歉"},{"start":45622.373,"end":45640.856,"text":"對不起讓你們等待太久了在過去這麼長的時間當中我們的罪犯我們的犯罪組織是利用日新科技的樂意在侵害人權在犯罪但我們基層的檢警"},{"start":45642.51,"end":45655.001,"text":"卻完全是停留在石器時代的土法煉鋼苦苦的追趕我們不能夠再讓壞人精神抖擻而好人已經疲憊"},{"start":45656.614,"end":45671.935,"text":"這一部在《刑事訴訟法》裡面所賦予科技偵查手段法源基礎的專章是我們邁向科技偵查跟人權保障重要里程碑"},{"start":45672.876,"end":45692.722,"text":"我要感謝所有在這一路上來針對在《刑事訴訟法》裡面制定科技偵查手段法源基礎非常多的朋友他們在幕後默默的協助謝謝你們也謝謝大家共同的支持謝謝黃國昌委員接下來請莊瑞雄委員發言吳宗憲委員請準備"},{"start":45708.87,"end":45725.787,"text":"謝謝院長我們在場所有的同仁大家晚安各位可能會發現我們的科技偵查法我們審理了那麼久不見了其實就在我們現在所審理的審完的行入訴訟法在153條之一"},{"start":45729.053,"end":45756.427,"text":"這部法令審理到現在本席有非常大的一個感慨立法院在審理任何的一個法案其實就是在憲法保障人權的架構之下同樣的邏輯這一部放在最後一刻放在刑事訴訟法的科技偵查法裡面我們在最後一刻把它放進去了四年前我們在審製部法令的時候中國國民黨的好朋友說這個叫做科技東廠法"},{"start":45758.096,"end":45782.222,"text":"4年後隨著犯罪形態的日新月異大家可以看到了科技偵查真的是一個好的法寶它就搖身一變了變成一個重要的武器但是4年前跟4年後到底有什麼樣的一個差別其實就是我們在審理的時候加入了干預的一個授權讓偵查機關找到了法律的授權的一個依據"},{"start":45783.422,"end":45807.967,"text":"同時搭配可能受侵害第三人發動科技偵查的嚴格的一個規定確保秘密偵查的手段不會波及到無辜所以我們強化了事後的一個通知跟後續的一個救濟本席非常清楚只要偵辦的機關動用這樣的一個秘密手段偵查機關有義務在調查結束以後通知當事人讓他有後續的一個救濟的一個手段"},{"start":45809.599,"end":45811.1,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":45838.876,"end":45842.979,"text":"謝謝莊瑞璇委員的發言接下來請吳宗憲委員發言請羅志強委員準備"},{"start":45858.261,"end":45879.98,"text":"工欲善其是必先利其器在數位的時代我們急需要科技偵查的法律依據我過去偵辦過很多的刑案所以我非常的清楚沒有這些科技偵查的手段根本無法溯源也無法瓦解犯罪集團的核心對好人更好對壞人更壞是我一貫的主張"},{"start":45881.277,"end":45888.903,"text":"我修科技偵查專章就是希望檢警能夠擁有更多的武器來對抗壞人來守護善良的百姓"},{"start":45889.997,"end":45913.026,"text":"在此之前連GPS、M化車都沒有法制化我們其實在國際上就像時器時代的國家在面對許多高科技的犯罪罪犯沒有辦法有效的增加犯罪集團的成本你刑度再怎麼增加都沒有辦法遏止犯罪這是科技專章的通過絕對可以有效改變我國目前所面臨的窘境"},{"start":45913.726,"end":45936.284,"text":"然而利用科技設備比起傳統的方式更為巨大侵害數位隱私層面會更廣不容忽視所以在這次的修法當中我也確保檢舉為了科技偵查的手段是合法符合比例原則的要法官能夠介入審核讓民眾有更全面的保障最後 敦請司法院"},{"start":45937.245,"end":45944.498,"text":"能夠盡力培養成神法官在面對科技思維的時候能夠在修法上與時俱進能夠盡事實修法之責"},{"start":45947.663,"end":45976.833,"text":"我曾經擔任過檢察官所以我非常的了解科技偵查對於我們國家的重要性以及對於保障人民的必要任何的犯罪偵查以及犯罪被害金額的取回都必須要有科技偵查為後盾在此我對於各位在場的立委獻上最深的敬意謝謝你們為了檢警為了這個國家為了偵查犯罪做出來的努力讓法案能夠順利三讀通過謝謝各位"},{"start":45989.745,"end":46015.91,"text":"謝謝吳宗憲委謝謝吳宗憲委的發言接下來請登記第4號羅志強委員請發言詐欺科技上太空檢調還在殺豬公過去台灣深受詐欺之苦"},{"start":46016.843,"end":46041.008,"text":"主要就是詐欺集團的各種的犯罪工具日新月異但是檢調在偵辦所謂的詐欺案件的武器顯不對等所以今天我們刑事訴訟法授予檢察機關、執法機關科技偵查的這樣的武器就是希望能夠來"},{"start":46042.848,"end":46062.006,"text":"制止我們今天詐欺的案件繼續為禍台灣人民我曾經看到一份民調他說96%的台灣人94%的台灣人都接過詐欺訊息我認為剩下6%的人可能不住在台灣啦"},{"start":46063.221,"end":46088.894,"text":"實際上幾乎詐欺已經變成是一個全民的一個悲劇而過去不管是這8年詐欺的金額、詐欺受害的人數、詐欺的案件都不斷創下歷史新高所以今天為什麼催生出科技偵查的法源就是希望今天讓我們檢方讓我們的司法單位有一個對等的武器"},{"start":46089.79,"end":46103.248,"text":"但這邊我也要必須說雖然草野修法給我們的司法檢調打詐的屠龍刀但是我真的希望不要變成侵犯人權以及政治增防的倚天劍"},{"start":46104.54,"end":46131.153,"text":"在我們審查法案的過程當中其實不只是我也包括民進黨的委員其實都提出了科技偵查的這個法律的權利的授予它是兩面刃一方面提高了打擊犯罪的強度另外一方面也要付出侵犯人權的代價所以我們也在這次的科技偵查的相關的法律規定裡面來去增加包括事後通知以及包括"},{"start":46158.042,"end":46172.027,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員報告院會報告院會本次會議所列的所有議程除了新住民制定案其他已經全部都處理完畢"},{"start":46173.427,"end":46188.248,"text":"但是新住民自定案我們還沒有達成共識所以我們現在本席宣布休息15分鐘請黨團幹部到後面院長會休息室我們再來協商只剩這一個案子了我們請休息15分鐘謝謝"},{"start":48266.601,"end":48291.411,"text":"報告委員會我們現在繼續開會報告事項第30案新住民權益保障法草案報告委員會因為協商已經超過一個月無法達成共識依立法院職權新釋法第71條之一規定由院會定期處理原以本次會議提出討論報告委員會本案經各黨團同意以行政院提案為討論基礎"},{"start":48293.232,"end":48309.765,"text":"並依各黨團所提版本其中名稱第一、三、四、五條民進黨版本優先處理其餘依先後次序第二、八、十一條不作發言"},{"start":48310.866,"end":48324.839,"text":"現在我們進行廣泛討論依黨團共識由各黨團推派之代表發言每位委員發言3分鐘首先請羅美玲委員發言張志倫委員準備"},{"start":48337.516,"end":48364.047,"text":"謝謝主席各位委員先進大家晚安那最近呢我們常常聽到有人情緒性的說民進黨政府過去8年沒有在照顧新住民這種說法呢非常的不厚道也跟一般新住民的認知不同其實民進黨政府上任之後呢就積極修正國籍法和相關的法規舉例來說"},{"start":48366.028,"end":48384.656,"text":"我國在108年就將七國東南亞語列入中小學課綱這是全球首見的創舉我們也修了《大學法》增訂新住民就讀大學的外加名額那對於無國籍的兒少"},{"start":48385.336,"end":48409.156,"text":"可以由監護人或社福機構協助申請規劃提早取得國籍這是本席從上一屆開始就積極也在這個會期正式的三讀通過那疫情期間呢本席大力爭取政府辦理彈性處理疫情期間的境外面談超過4000對以上的配偶得以團聚"},{"start":48410.497,"end":48425.795,"text":"協助超過500對以上的跨國辦理團聚2020年上任之後本席也積極地推動減少依親面談的國家已經減少了6個國家除此之外本席也推動"},{"start":48426.917,"end":48443.297,"text":"為涉及孕婦醫療費用開放申請新住民發展基金的急難救助讓為涉及的孕婦納入產檢補助讓涉及前新住民比照國人同樣享有不孕症事管嬰兒補助甚至"},{"start":48445.64,"end":48460.695,"text":"我也協助本國的特殊兒童也就是黑戶寶寶比照國人可接種各種常規的疫苗對於經濟弱勢新住民比照國人補助就醫相關費用及健保欠費等等"},{"start":48462.016,"end":48484.501,"text":"這些措施都是本席任內的努力的成果本席絕不敢自稱是新住民之母可是我絕對是新住民的公僕那這些政策我國政府長年以來為了照顧新住民還有許多優於他國的制度例如新住民入籍一定的時間之後就可以參選民代"},{"start":48486.521,"end":48491.465,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案．請"},{"start":48507.695,"end":48521.545,"text":"新住民參加職業訓練是免費的新住民的子女我們也另外編列了教育獎金台灣22個縣市設置有新住民家庭服務中心服務全國"},{"start":48542.136,"end":48542.336,"text":"主席"},{"start":48558.055,"end":48584.656,"text":"各位委員各位全國的好朋友大家晚安新住民專法終於從第9屆第10屆到現在第11屆在歷經三屆國會的共同努力之下期待今天可以順利三讀通過政府也未來即將成立新住民的專責單位這是我國劃時代的里程碑本席深感榮幸共同參與了這個歷史時刻"},{"start":48586.698,"end":48614.046,"text":"我國新住民加上其子女現在已經突破百萬人其中新北市新住民人數正佔全台多數來自不同國度的新住民漂洋過海到台灣在這落地生根從第一代孕育到第二代第三代成為台灣多元文化的一份子本席以及國民黨團為保障新住民權益於今年"},{"start":48615.273,"end":48643.174,"text":"本11屆委員宣誓立法委員後及提出新住民基本法期盼提升藉由提案要求政府正式新住民問題及催出新住民的專責機構雖然今天可能沒有辦法成立新的新住民委員會但在本席跟各政黨委員經過不斷的溝通期待在今天有機會通過三讀"},{"start":48644.335,"end":48658.721,"text":"也在這邊感謝韓院長以及各黨團委員破過多次及密集的協商在7月2號、7月9號以及7月12號相信、今天期待可以取得共識"},{"start":48659.561,"end":48679.693,"text":"以及在今天7月15日通過《新住民基本法》由政府成立專責單位來維護新住民的權益措施包含通益服務提供新住民語言學習保障勞動權益等等非常重要的新住民的權利"},{"start":48680.433,"end":48695.519,"text":"本席認為無論我們所有的新住民來自哪裡只要心在中華民國熱愛中華民國共同在這片土地上我們就是一家人政府應該平等對待為新住民權益"},{"start":48696.76,"end":48722.799,"text":"醫療、就業等方面提供照護及服務並培養新二代以及新南向的語言人才為台灣注入邁向國際的新動力最後非常期待我們三黨共同有共識今天一起通過新住民基本法讓台灣成為亞洲全世界最歡迎新住民的國家感謝各位謝謝大家祝福大家謝謝"},{"start":48727.391,"end":48755.45,"text":"謝謝張志倫委員發言接下來請麥玉珍委員發言蘇巧慧委員請準備院長各位親愛的家人大家晚安"},{"start":48757.079,"end":48777.441,"text":"我所提出來的新住民基本法的立法精神是為了落實匯法保障多元文化的精神保障新住民各項基本權利應不受歧視、排擠、剝奪和限制並協助新住民融入我國社會"},{"start":48779.076,"end":48802.861,"text":"建立共榮的族群關係政府對於不同的國籍和地區之新住民除法律範圍外行政措施一律平等所以為什麼要提出來這樣子的法律因為我們要遵守台灣的律法是要從優從儀邁向名人當本"},{"start":48804.861,"end":48830.78,"text":"本顧邦林的目標發展因為在我們台灣很多就是像說那個保安、食安的問題很多大家就聽到河粉都沒有去查其他店就是往新住民開的店來去查每天都被查不到為什麼去年呢我們有一個新二代他皮膚比較黑所以呢"},{"start":48831.36,"end":48859.611,"text":"警察就當他是移工惡化不溫就打他了現場就毆打他還有我們現在就是因為政黨的關係就把他抹紅抹黑所以呢我們的大陸的姊妹還有他的小孩都是被鄰居來去霸凌所以我們要把就是這一條放進來雖然是說我們是從92年我們移民署就成立了"},{"start":48860.111,"end":48862.014,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":48879.475,"end":48903.493,"text":"以不要再像那麼多年92年到現在了我們希望立法有一個專責的單位讓我們新住民去發揮有哪裡錯大家都是希望我們永遠變成學生永遠就是要大家照顧但是我們已經在台灣20幾年了我們希望要有一個平台有一個地方讓我們去發揮"},{"start":48905.334,"end":48920.551,"text":"不要說我們有身份證了還要三年限制我們的身份所以我們沒有身份證的時候還要限制我們我們有身份證了還要限制我們還要說身份證後又不能再來被照顧"},{"start":48921.352,"end":48923.394,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":48948.019,"end":48975.59,"text":"謝謝麥玉珍委員發言接下來請蘇巧惠委員發言牛許廷委員請準備謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝各位委員請保持肅靜各位委員請尊重發言的委員"},{"start":48977.876,"end":48992.765,"text":"好 主席各位同仁修法其實就是把不同的意見帶到會議當中大家可以整合並且在這個過程當中也許你聽到了新的意見甚至修改自己原來的意見這都不是壞事"},{"start":48993.425,"end":49011.788,"text":"我必須說其實像在這一次的修法當中我自己本人就是從新住民的基本法改換成為了新住民權益保障法大家都是基於保障新住民的權益這種初衷共同來思考如何的立法是最好的"},{"start":49012.268,"end":49024.918,"text":"而且又可以符合法治的體力最好的形式來保障新住民權益可是很遺憾的在經過內政委員會兩次委員會討論以及7月2號、7月9號甚至7月12號這院長召集的協商這麼多次的會議之後我們本來已經由不同黨派大家經過討論雖然很困難但是有一個共識"},{"start":49038.229,"end":49048.995,"text":"包括名稱我們就是要用新住民權益保障法用這樣作用法的形式來讓新住民的權益可以更快更全面的達到保障但今天這一切都變化了"},{"start":49053.217,"end":49069.906,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":49078.951,"end":49080.591,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49097.176,"end":49115.093,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":49121.098,"end":49131.263,"text":"那麼我們往後這一部新住民的基本法未接將會架空陸委會和現行法律也就是台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例還有香港澳門關係條例將產生隔閡未來這個法律競合要怎麼處理"},{"start":49138.426,"end":49162.122,"text":"這就是過去我們在幾次閒商當中大家最認真的討論就是在這個部分而我們本已達成共識但很可惜今天一切被推翻我們必須留在這裡表決我要誠懇的說一部法律到底是基本法還是作用法不是用表決可以來決定的也不是用來"},{"start":49166.232,"end":49168.714,"text":"謝謝蘇巧慧委員發言接下來請劉許廷委員請發言"},{"start":49176.896,"end":49196.553,"text":"謝謝主席各位同仁這個本案經內政委員會審查兩次召委召集黨團協商最終在院長召集協商等程序完備的情況之下即便討論的過程中朝野雙方意見有所不同但大體上依然能夠盡量的互相的妥協讓步"},{"start":49197.654,"end":49216.497,"text":"我們在修正這部法律討論的過程中採取先易後難的策略針對法規較沒有爭議的宣示性的具體內容在委員會審查的時候均已通過完畢針對名稱、身份等相對複雜的條款則是在朝野協商的過程中盡力思考解決的方案"},{"start":49217.418,"end":49241.654,"text":"我們之所以主張應該用新住民基本法是因為避免法律頭重腳輕我們通過法規的具體內容大多屬於宣誓性、原則性較強的規範即便它橫跨了生活輔助、家庭照顧服務、就業權益保障、考試相關類科以及成立新住民發展基金、鼓勵學術研究等等範疇但大體上都是原則性的規範"},{"start":49242.455,"end":49260.223,"text":"如果今天我們以權益保障法之名來通過難免有頭重腳輕的質疑這一部分也是許多民團在我們討論的過程中有提出的意見本來呢我們認為如果在各黨和諧的情況之下大家理性溝通大可各退一步"},{"start":49260.723,"end":49283.926,"text":"我們本來在草野協商最後的時候決定還是可以以行政院希望通過的新住民權益保障法作為通過的版本但是要附加法條通過後執行一年試結果再行修正以這個接納民意保留法條的彈性本來這樣子的草野協商的結論大家都牽制畫押 遺憾民進黨贏了還要贏多了"},{"start":49285.407,"end":49304.012,"text":"這個民眾黨在協商的過程中已經主動撤回不堅持有爭議的相關法條在野黨在協商的過程中其實也多次讓步大家都秉持先求有再求好的精神來討論這個法案但最後很遺憾我們台灣民眾黨還是被扣上了紅帽子"},{"start":49304.952,"end":49332.041,"text":"以至於最終側牽翻桌讓今天大家要繼續加班血傷破裂雖然可惜但既然如此我們不妨回歸初心支持基本法的概念也在此呼籲我們的政府應儘速準備相關的配套政策與法令修正不管怎麼樣法條的內容還是要認真的執行大家共同努力一起給新住民的好朋友更多的保障感謝大家謝謝"},{"start":49335.793,"end":49348.258,"text":"謝謝牛許廷偉的花言報告委員會現在我們進行逐條討論請宣讀名稱民進黨黨團修正動議名稱新住民權益保障法台灣民眾黨黨團與國民黨黨團修正動議相同名稱新住民基本法宣讀完畢"},{"start":49355.367,"end":49365.672,"text":"委員會現在我們每位政黨都有一位發言的代表委員首先我們請陳玉珍委員發言麥玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":49377.202,"end":49392.383,"text":"主席各位同仁現在已經是晚上10點13分了我們還會在這裡繼續討論的原因的確是因為在這個草野協商的過程中本來已經大家都已經簽字了但是就是有的黨派有的個人"},{"start":49395.977,"end":49405.462,"text":"也許不是真心的想要支持這個法案所以可能想要趁機讓這個法案破局所以才會讓我們今天大家還在這裡一百多位委員寶貴的時間來繼續在這邊繼續做表決不過這樣也好台灣的新住民有一百多萬人"},{"start":49410.985,"end":49436.058,"text":"我以我們金門為例金門每15戶每15個人就有一個人是新住民新住民代表的不僅是從他們原生的國家到我們這邊來事實上新住民之子現在也是我們台灣很多各行各業的中流砥柱我剛剛聽到這個蘇曉慧委員說說不應該把它定作基本法他們原來定的條例叫做權益保障法"},{"start":49436.818,"end":49457.997,"text":"但事實上呢我們國家為了表示對某個領域某些族群的重視事實上訂了很多基本法包括呢教育基本法文化基本法客家基本法原住民基本法我想新住民的重要性不亞於這些族群不亞於這些領域所以呢今天我們在這裡"},{"start":49459.42,"end":49488.193,"text":"除了討論我負責的是除了討論這個原來的這個法案名稱以外我也希望民進黨的委員好好的思考中華民國是一個各個族群融合的這個國家各個族群從原來的原來我們有原來的原住民再將後來從大陸移居過來的人民那接著這幾十年來慢慢的我們有東南亞各地不管是從越南印尼馬來西亞來著住民他們的融入"},{"start":49489.253,"end":49513.906,"text":"豐富我們的文化也讓我們的下一代更加的成長事實上對以後我們國立的發展也是非常重要的一件事情我請民進黨委員我想這個執政不要心裡永遠帶著一種帶著一個有色的眼鏡來看我們的族群來看我們的人民我們都一起生長在這個國家生長一起在這裡成長我們大家的努力都希望這裡變得更好"},{"start":49515.327,"end":49515.807,"text":"請各位同仁支持 以上謝謝"},{"start":49545.224,"end":49570.079,"text":"謝謝陳怡珍委員接下來請麥玉珍委員發言羅美玲委員請準備院長好各位親愛的家人大家晚安"},{"start":49573.274,"end":49600.227,"text":"我們是立法每一個都說這個是最高的法所以呢為什麼我們要用基本法不僅是一套法律的紮構它也是一種承帶著精神性和政策方面的範圍就像說道路交通安全基本法交易基本法等這些法律不僅是明確了實證方向"},{"start":49603.328,"end":49604.57,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49613.291,"end":49623.317,"text":"能朝向一致的目標前進當我們今天討論新住民基本法我們不僅是在談論一部法律我們是在為新住民族群確立一個長期確定、支持與保障的系統這部法案的名稱應當反映其精神與重要性新住民法"},{"start":49641.688,"end":49642.369,"text":"審議案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49666.101,"end":49667.142,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":49677.338,"end":49703.241,"text":"要去實施因為我們來台灣已經20幾年的已經希望我們在台灣就會有成長有成長後也要希望我們為台灣貢獻所以我們希望有一個依據一個法讓各個部會來去以各個方向來去照顧我們在台灣我們也要守法也依據這樣子的基本法來去執行"},{"start":49703.741,"end":49708.603,"text":"所以希望大家支持我們《新住民基本法》以上謝謝"},{"start":49727.13,"end":49745.441,"text":"主席、各位同仁、大家晚安新著名專法到底是要用作用法還是基本法其實我們做了很多的討論兩者的差別到底在哪裡基本法是政策性的立法條文內容都是宣示性的效果"},{"start":49746.562,"end":49760.88,"text":"單獨用基本法無法產生實質法律的效力那象徵性的意義呢大於實質的規範如果要讓基本法產生實質的效果還需要訂定其他的關係法或者是執法"},{"start":49761.821,"end":49780.791,"text":"例如我們未來還必須訂定新住民身份法或者是新住民專責單位的組織法等等曠日廢時緩不應急無法落實本法立即保障新住民權益之精神尤其基本法本質是建立於"},{"start":49781.972,"end":49801.494,"text":"法體系的上位性立法如果我們這次的法律的名稱稱為新著名基本法未來將會凌駕於國籍法、入出國移民法、兩岸人民關係以及港澳關係條例等普通法跟特別法不得不慎"},{"start":49802.455,"end":49827.263,"text":"行政院及本黨委員所提出的新住民權益保障法的精神是立即完善移民政策照顧新住民加速適應社會照顧對於我國語言文化相對陌生的族群彌補社會結構所造成之實質不平等以移民共同的尋求為出發點納入包含了工作權、健康權"},{"start":49828.403,"end":49853.756,"text":"資訊禁用、語言無障礙及公共參與等權益因此以作用法為題那過去在審查跟協商的過程當中本席所提的多條的條文都獲得朝野委員的支持行政院也以作用法提出版本將過去政府對新住民族群所實施的政策入法產生政策實施之依據規範政府與新住民族群之權利"},{"start":49855.077,"end":49867.685,"text":"正是新政部會首長更替法制化能確保新住民各項權益福利政策不受到影響必須本法通過之後直接作用、立即生效"},{"start":49870.182,"end":49886.172,"text":"那新住民專法在審查跟協商的過程呢都是用作用法的法律架構來做討論跟通過此法要用新住民權益保障法才正確否則就是牛頭不對馬嘴而且上周上周五的時候呢"},{"start":49887.352,"end":49910.228,"text":"黨團協商是三黨的代表也達成協議也達成了這共識法例名稱就是新著名權益保障法所以我們不希望就是說三黨呢毫無三黨的協議在這個國民黨跟民眾黨的這個提出修正動議之後呢毫無誠信的摧毀上週五所達成的協商共識"},{"start":49914.794,"end":49922.062,"text":"謝謝羅美玲委員的發言報告委員會現在我們開始準備表決按鈴7分鐘請議事人員分發表決卡按鈴開始"},{"start":50026.544,"end":50038.616,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50063.985,"end":50066.971,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":50097.978,"end":50107.995,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":50134.25,"end":50151.329,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案："},{"start":50166.783,"end":50195.162,"text":"響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘響鐘"},{"start":50213.7,"end":50221.403,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50237.363,"end":50245.63,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50268.558,"end":50294.645,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":50314.982,"end":50324.286,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":50348.915,"end":50350.376,"text":"報告委員會,現在我們進行處理"},{"start":50353.547,"end":50382.61,"text":"依序進行表決如果其中有任何疑案通過我們即不再處理其他案首先我們表決民進黨黨團版本以及行政院提案名稱現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":50455.796,"end":50469.074,"text":"抱怨會報告表決結果出席107位贊成50位反對57位贊成者少數民進黨黨團版本名稱不通過抱怨會因台灣民眾黨、國民黨團修正動議名稱相同一併處理"},{"start":50473.119,"end":50477.023,"text":"現在表決台灣民眾黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議名稱現有民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團修正動議請案贊成反對請案反對時間1分鐘現在開始"},{"start":50565.526,"end":50582.314,"text":"報告委員會報告表決結果出席107位贊成57位反對50位贊成者多數作以下宣告名稱照台灣民眾黨團、國民黨團修正動議名稱通過現在進行第一條請宣讀條文"},{"start":50583.7,"end":50596.851,"text":"民眾黨黨團修正動議第一條為落實憲法保障多元武漢精神保障新住民之基本權益協助其融入我國社會建立共存共融之族群關係特制定本法台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議第一條"},{"start":50599.113,"end":50617.035,"text":"為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民各項基本人權應不受歧視、排擠、剝奪或限制並協助其融入我國社會建立共存共榮族群關係特制定本法政府對於不同國籍或地區之新住民除法律另有規定外行政措施應一律平等"},{"start":50617.936,"end":50644.87,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第一條為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民各項基本人權應不受歧視、排擠、剝奪或限制並協助其融入我國社會建立共存共榮族群關係特制定本法國民黨黨團再修正動議第一條為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民基本權益協助其融入我國社會建立共存共榮之族群關係特制定本法宣讀完畢"},{"start":50646.567,"end":50656.567,"text":"以黨團共事由各黨團推派之代表發言首先請麥玉珍委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備"},{"start":50673.671,"end":50700.867,"text":"各位親愛的家人大家晚安我再一次再來說我們的新住民基本法的精神為什麼我們要把說民團要求說我們立法就是要消除歧視所以呢保障新住民基本人權應不受歧視排擠剝奪和限制"},{"start":50701.767,"end":50730.695,"text":"也是因為這樣子的法例我們要把這樣融入在我們的匯法裡面建立共榮族群關係政府對於不同的國籍或地區自新住民除了法律範圍外行政措施一律平等我再強調政府對於不同的國籍或地區自新住民除法"},{"start":50731.724,"end":50756.779,"text":"立範圍外行政措施一律平等這個就是我們要想說把這個放在裡面就是因為很多人收到就是歧視連我在這裡我幫大家來爭取這樣子的平等平權辨明但是呢很多"},{"start":50757.459,"end":50769.958,"text":"一輩子在選舉都說照顧新住民但是在這裡說我們新住民只是一個過程不是我們是族群"},{"start":50771.42,"end":50771.44,"text":"審議案"},{"start":50802.321,"end":50802.661,"text":"審議案審議案"},{"start":50823.643,"end":50831.91,"text":"來去搞分類讓新住民好好在台灣為生根為我們下一代來打拼希望大家多多支持謝謝"},{"start":50852.121,"end":50872.123,"text":"謝謝主席那關於這一個第一條剛好引用剛剛前面的委員也有提到剛剛前面有委員在講的時候一直在講族群融合的字眼但其實在內政委員會審查的過程當中就有提過其實現在不宜再使用這樣的一個字眼最好的說法應該是共存共融"},{"start":50873.183,"end":50892.479,"text":"所謂的不管是新住民還是這個我們現在的這一個本國的國民最終他都是台灣人所以對我們來講只要具有台灣人這樣的一個身份我們都應該要尊重這個在身份底下的多元的文化所以才會有共存共榮這樣的一個字眼"},{"start":50893.22,"end":50918.815,"text":"然而呢在這一次呢因為剛剛已經訂了這一個叫做基本法的這樣的一個名稱但大家要知道如果我們用基本法這個名稱那現在按照民眾黨的這一個版本說政府對於不同國籍或地區之新住民除法律另有規定外行政措施應一律平等這其實就跟名稱會有矛盾啦為什麼呢是因為基本法的位階很高"},{"start":50919.375,"end":50936.353,"text":"那如果你把除法律令有規定外把它排除的話那這個基本法就不知道在記什麼東西了所以呢我覺得那一個比較理想的一個狀況應該是我們不要這個第二項我們可以回歸現在不管是民進黨的修正動議還是國民黨的一個修正動議還是強調共存共榮這樣的一個關係"},{"start":50940.638,"end":50965.849,"text":"那接下來還有一個很重要的地方在於說行政措施疑慮平等剛剛有人說這會不會是扣紅帽子我要告訴大家做壞事不一定要有壞心我們今天並不是說有國安的疑慮什麼法律就不要定我們沒有講過這樣的話我們要提醒的是當你定每一個新的法律的時候哪一個條款有可能會形成國安的漏洞"},{"start":50966.269,"end":50986.305,"text":"而這個漏洞我們要注意也因此就是委員會中心主義的精神我們在委員會去討論這樣的一個狀況要怎麼把這個漏洞彌補起來這才是一種正確的做法嘛所以當我們今天發現第二款這個事情有問題的時候其實我在協商之前我就已經發文章說這個有問題了然後後來我們在會議當中也說這個有問題"},{"start":50991.149,"end":51017.119,"text":"那最後我們的又再度在我們的社群媒體跟大家介紹中間發生什麼事情為什麼這可以構成撤遷為什麼這可以構成翻桌的事由我們只是在陳述一個有漏洞的事實而已啊那既然有漏洞的事實大家予以填補這不是好事嗎怎麼會變成說在被扣紅帽子之後然後說現在要翻桌不認人導致我們現在要在這邊重新討論這個法案"},{"start":51018.439,"end":51035.807,"text":"所以我再次還是要強調就是我們對於這樣的一個漏洞的一個警覺性我們要注意那既然呢如果我們今天在其他的版本沒有這個第二款的話第二項的話我們回歸第一項強調新住民然後之後成為我國國民的共存共榮文化謝謝沈博洋委員的發言也請羅志強委員請發言"},{"start":51057.779,"end":51078.056,"text":"不管來自何方先來後到我們都是台灣人今天很高興也很欣慰雖然大家對於名稱條文還有一些歧義但是這些都無妨我們今天這一步早就該為新住民來訂定的法律通過"},{"start":51079.136,"end":51105.885,"text":"事實上新住民基本法在2017年、2022年都曾經送到內政委員會很可惜並沒有交出立法的成績單但今天在我們新的國會的第一個會期那在很多委員們的努力之下我們終於要交出為新住民交出一個我們該定的法律就是新住民的基本法"},{"start":51107.581,"end":51121.2,"text":"這個法律的名稱我看到大家有一些不同的意見討論可是基本上就我自己的認為就是說新住民權益保障法其實是比新住民基本法這個名稱要狹隘"},{"start":51122.026,"end":51145.808,"text":"為什麼可以從這個我們的第一條規範的元素就可以看到基本上新住民基本法我覺得是相對來講是比較合適的一個名稱因為在我們的新住民基本法的第一條裡面大家所擬的條文雖然版本有差別大概包含兩個元素第一個就是保障新住民的基本權益"},{"start":51146.468,"end":51174.645,"text":"第二是建立共存共榮的族群關係所以換言之其實新住民基本法它想要涵蓋的範圍乃至於它想要把這個法律定的位階都是高於新住民權益保障法這是第一個就有點像原住民基本法也是一樣它也是包含了保障原住民基本權利來建立共存共榮的族群關係在第一條裡面這樣的規範"},{"start":51175.585,"end":51200.216,"text":"所以因此他也以基本法來命名那第二個角度是說其實當我們在思考法律的時候可能不要從所謂的執政的本位去想說我覺得我要用什麼法律的名稱你要從民眾的本位來去看請問大家新住民朋友會希望這個法律名稱叫新住民權益保障法還是新住民基本法"},{"start":51200.916,"end":51221.823,"text":"就像原住民的朋友會希望我們的法律叫做原住民權益保障法還是叫做原住民基本法所以我們當我們立法的時候不要陷入一個立法者的傲慢框架應該要從所謂的人民的角度去思考最後我想要講一個我個人覺得比較稍微今天有點遺憾的地方"},{"start":51222.463,"end":51241.892,"text":"我剛剛聽到這個民進黨立委對著麥玉珍委員說你要感謝台灣對你的栽培光這句話就是一個上對下的一種所謂的語氣麥委員當然會感謝台灣但我們要對新住民要講的是我們感謝新住民為台灣"},{"start":51263.083,"end":51268.106,"text":"好 報告委員會現在我們表決民進黨黨團版本條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對請按反對現在開始"},{"start":51356.069,"end":51375.395,"text":"本院會現在報告表決結果出席107位贊成50位反對57位贊成者少數民進黨黨團不通過版本不通過現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間1分鐘現在開始"},{"start":51459.941,"end":51479.661,"text":"報告表決結果出席委員100位贊成100位所以贊成者多數最後以下宣告第一條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過報告現在進行第二條請宣讀三個黨團共同修正動議條文"},{"start":51481.716,"end":51497.839,"text":"三黨共提修正動議第2條本法所稱新住民只符合下列情形之一者一、僅許可在台灣地區居留、依清居留、長期居留或永久居留之外國人無國籍人民、大陸地區人民、香港或澳門居民"},{"start":51498.3,"end":51527.154,"text":"其配偶為居住台灣地區設有戶籍國民二、依入出國籍移民法第23條第一項第一款至第七款第九款、第十款、第二項或第三項經許可在台灣地區居留或依該法第25條經許可永久居留或從事外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第四條、第四款、第四目、第五目、第八條、第十條之專業工作或依該法第15條第一項取得工作許可"},{"start":51527.674,"end":51546.445,"text":"或經許可在台灣地區居留或永久居留三、依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條第4項規定經專案許可在台灣地區長期居留或依香港澳門關係條例經許可在台灣地區居留且其居留事由"},{"start":51547.145,"end":51562.34,"text":"於符合法定條件後依法得申請在台灣地區定居四、第一款或第二款規定之外國人或無國籍人民經規劃取得我國國籍以台灣地區無戶籍國民身份在台灣地區居留"},{"start":51563.061,"end":51589.879,"text":"五、第一款或第三款規定之大陸地區人民香港或澳門居民前款規定之台灣地區無戶及國民或依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第16條第二項規定經許可在台灣地區定居前項第一款及第二款經許可居留之外國人以未兼具我國國籍者為限文法保障對象即於新住民子女宣讀完畢"},{"start":51590.816,"end":51608.265,"text":"法院會第二條就三黨團共同修正動議條文通過現在進行審查會保留第三條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納本條就不予採納法院會現在進行第三條請宣讀條文"},{"start":51610.646,"end":51622.119,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第3條本法之主管機關為內政部本法鎖定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理"},{"start":51623.988,"end":51650.077,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團修正動議第三條本法所稱主管機關在中央為本法所設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府直轄市與縣市政府應設新住民之單一服務窗口提供新住民居住、醫療、就學、就業、輔助、司法、經濟、文化、族群融合等多元服務"},{"start":51651.737,"end":51678.22,"text":"國民黨黨團修正動議第3條本法所稱主管機關在中央為本法所設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府國民黨黨團在修正動議第3條本法主管機關為內政部本法所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理宣讀完畢"},{"start":51680.097,"end":51687.664,"text":"現在我們進行各黨團的發言首先請黃婕委員發言請徐巧欣委員準備"},{"start":51704.841,"end":51722.552,"text":"好在座各位同事大家晚安大家辛苦了剛剛其實麥玉珍委員有提到說台灣都沒有照顧到新住民我必須要在這邊說其實不管是誰來到台灣也都成為了台灣人所以也才會有麥玉珍委員像羅美玲委員"},{"start":51723.352,"end":51746.878,"text":"這些新住民也能夠在台灣成為立法委員因為台灣給予充分的參政權所以我也不希望麥委員這樣子講這種話在這邊撕裂彼此移民署有統計跟我們台灣的新住民包括外籍、中國籍或是已經規劃持有滋留症的人數現在已經超過了59萬人成長的速度非常快"},{"start":51747.538,"end":51776.75,"text":"新住民是我們大家的夥伴在座所有人都是不分朝野大家全力來推動增進新住民的權益的所以真的不需要去劃分誰的努力比較少誰的努力比較多那甚至是在原本的黨團協商其實跟院版一樣最後我們都已經有構思了那我不明白的是為什麼在今天晚上短短的兩個小時之內民眾黨又提出了新的版本要把內政部"},{"start":51777.09,"end":51803.035,"text":"改為主管機關改為署甚至是一個三級機關而國民黨卻也是一改再改一遍再遍原本用了委員會到了黨團協商大家共同有共識說好由內政部來主責最後現在中間又改了要成立新住民委員會直到剛剛又成立了又改為新的版本說要跟院版一樣"},{"start":51803.695,"end":51811.261,"text":"那既然跟原版一樣,我也不明白為什麼我們要在這裡表決一個同樣內容的文字呢?"},{"start":51812.563,"end":51840.431,"text":"那其實這個癥結點既然已經到了這裡我們都有構思是由內政部當時說要由內政部來成立主管機關成立組織機關那現在跟我們最大差異的民眾黨的版本裡面要撕毀協議要成立的是一個三級機關我不明白的是為什麼要舍近求遠為什麼要再用這個三級機關之後還必須要多修基準法必須要多修組織法"},{"start":51842.172,"end":51864.33,"text":"讓這個事情變得曠日廢時沒有辦法盡早的來協助新住民的權益的融入呢那更離譜的是這個三級機關其實遠比我們大家的共識還要降格為什麼要提一個比遠比原本的版本還差的一個主管機關呢最後我要強調草案其實第一條就開宗明義說到"},{"start":51864.93,"end":51884.017,"text":"保障新住民的基本權益協助融入我國的社會建立共存共榮的族群關係這個是我們朝野黨團都要努力來推動的新住民是我們的家人台灣是我們的家大家一起相互扶持互相理解我們才能找到最大的共識希望大家共同來支持謝謝謝謝黃婕委員的發言接下來請許巧欣委員發言蔓玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":51900.595,"end":51921.567,"text":"各位大家好首先我還沉浸在剛才的這個驚人的歷史畫面當中彷彿在議場裡面看到一陣極光歷史畫面我們在這裡也許一個願希望接下來也可以持續的出現大家對於新住民的權益共同支持不分黨派"},{"start":51922.367,"end":51934.55,"text":"我們有這樣子的一個祈願可是我們要問的事情是事實真的是如此嗎我們看到的儀表板上面好像所有的人都能支持同樣的法案可是我們要問問你們的心有一樣嗎今天為什麼我們要在這裡表決這麼久當時都已經通過協商了都已經拍了帥帥美美的照片了為什麼協商還是破局了"},{"start":51946.892,"end":51970.023,"text":"就是因為有立委在結束之後去抹紅我們的新住民不是嗎我想要問的是我們在新住民的這個基本法裡面列了這麼多說我們要保障新住民的權益剛才上一位黃婕委員在這個台子上她還說這些新住民也能如何如何"},{"start":51971.063,"end":51990.377,"text":"當你說出這些新住民也能如何的時候 抱歉他們不是也不也能 他們本來就能 他們是我們的一家人他們是中華民國的國民 他們本就應該享有與我們相同的待遇不是這些新住民 他們就是新住民所以我們要再一次強調"},{"start":51991.698,"end":52018.343,"text":"不要抹紅別人很難嗎我們要再次強調這些新住民他們有的是陸配他們有的是外配我們現在統一稱呼他們新住民就是對於他們最大的一個尊重而這部法律躺了好多年現在才終於要通過我來自的選區也有非常多的新住民朋友那他們也一直都在期待有一部新住民的基本法"},{"start":52018.783,"end":52044.396,"text":"能夠讓他們跟台灣的連結感受到更深能夠讓他們的權益能夠更被保障能夠讓他們不要再被這塊土地上面有一些的惡意去抹紅去分化去認為他們不是跟我們彼此切出了一條紅線不是的我在這裡要再一次的告訴我們全台灣的同胞我們中華民國的國民"},{"start":52045.657,"end":52068.306,"text":"包含我們今天所列的新住民基本法的這些所有的新住民朋友不管是你或是你的後代我們都是台灣人現在在台灣超過100萬的新住民以及其子女大家要知道很多的新住民的子女在台灣發展得非常好因為他們有不同的語言"},{"start":52069.286,"end":52081.433,"text":"他們會講國語他們也會講自己的母語所以他們到世界各國的發展都是讓台灣餘有榮焉讓台灣之子成為台灣之光謝謝大家"},{"start":52105.345,"end":52109.395,"text":"謝謝院長各位親愛的家人大家晚安"},{"start":52113.356,"end":52139.211,"text":"跟大家對不起因為我要爭取的公平平等排除歧視大家不認同因為大家覺得這個跟我們的大陸有關抹紅抹黑大家詳細去看我中文沒有像大家那麼懂但是我還是看得懂裡面沒有任何"},{"start":52140.151,"end":52140.511,"text":"新住民的定義身份"},{"start":52168.238,"end":52182.924,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本"},{"start":52195.88,"end":52208.285,"text":"華人在海外再回來台灣又怕他們變新住民所以我們在台灣新住民就怕我們永久變新住民所以海外的人回台灣要票的時候你們趕快飛回來投給我"},{"start":52213.508,"end":52235.346,"text":"但是選完就說你們不是我的人民你們的小孩回來變成要用我的預算所以你們不是你們不能在這邊讓我照顧就會增加我行政院的預算所以天啊我們台灣是要照顧的是"},{"start":52236.596,"end":52256.387,"text":"想要照顧的人想要撒錢的地方想要花錢的地方是跟你沒有關但是呢需要票的時候跟你有關我要照顧你但是你回來跟我沒有關所以我真的我不知道是說我們的民進黨我從"},{"start":52258.368,"end":52258.608,"text":"本院委員"},{"start":52286.629,"end":52304.729,"text":"謝謝麥玉珍委員發言報告委員會現在我們表決民進黨黨團的版本條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對按反對記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":52376.099,"end":52392.067,"text":"報告委員會現在報告表決結果出席107位贊成50位反對57位贊成則少數民進黨黨團版本條文不通過報告委員會現在表決國民黨黨團再修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成國民黨黨團再修正動議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":52474.844,"end":52489.082,"text":"法院會初席100位贊成100位贊成者多數作以下宣告第三條照國民黨黨團再修正動議條文通過法院會現在進行第四條請宣讀條文"},{"start":52491.448,"end":52519.963,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第4條政府應設專責單位或至專人推動辦理新住民相關事宜台灣民眾黨黨團與國民黨黨團修正動議相同第4條內政部應設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關以統籌規劃研究諮詢協調推動促進新住民就學就業賠利關懷協助及多元服務之相關事宜宣讀完畢"},{"start":52521.909,"end":52530.79,"text":"委員會一黨團共事由各黨團推派代表發言首先請王洪威委員發言麥玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":52544.124,"end":52562.841,"text":"好主席還有各位同事大家非常辛苦剛才我們看到兩次的表決結果那很多人都在拍照因為呢那非常特別的我們也看到民進黨的同仁也兩次的來贊成國民黨的再修正動議"},{"start":52564.022,"end":52589.144,"text":"所以也就是在我們對於很多公共政策的一個討論裡面其實我們可以用一個真的更融合而且更寬容的態度但是我們可以看到為什麼我們現在要更多花時間來做討論跟做表決也確實在我們的整個的修法過程裡面"},{"start":52590.29,"end":52600.23,"text":"我們確實在政黨之間是不是在做一些鬥爭或者世上在抹黑或抹紅"},{"start":52601.556,"end":52628.491,"text":"剛才我有注意到比如說沈伯洋委員講說如果我們在整個的條文裡面發生了有疏漏我們做提醒如果是這樣的態度當然沒有問題可是我必須要提出來在過程裡面明明已經達成協商而且如同剛才所說的大家都高高興興地在拍照之後"},{"start":52629.351,"end":52655.907,"text":"竟然一出門之後我們就會發現我們一些委員在他的臉書裡面用非常極具攻擊性的言語來羞辱甚至是上抹黑跟抹紅我們的同事我想請問一下如果今天如果幹事長縣市批裡面還會提到說讓我心裡發毛的字眼"},{"start":52657.107,"end":52674.055,"text":"請問一下這是我們之間本來已經達成協議的一個共識之後踏出這個門之後然後對雖然是不同政黨的同仁做這樣的一個攻擊請問一下這是善意的嗎"},{"start":52675.575,"end":52703.574,"text":"請問一下這是真的我們希望為了新住民大家共榮大家融合大家能夠尊重我們新住民基本權益我們應該有的一個態度嗎所以在這裡我們要特別希望的是在我們的整個的態度中我們認為對於新住民我們應該要予以尊重不是一個"},{"start":52705.423,"end":52729.819,"text":"給予我們也不是施捨這是在台灣將近60萬的新住民如果加上第二代的話是將近百萬的新住民他們對於台灣的經濟對於台灣的家庭照顧對於台灣的勞動市場他們過去幾十年來他們的貢獻其實我們應該心存感激"},{"start":52747.512,"end":52751.195,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員的發言接下來請麥玉珍委員發言"},{"start":52769.943,"end":52777.059,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝大家我們的立法院的朋友還有謝謝我們線上的朋友"},{"start":52778.234,"end":52798.646,"text":"新住民基本法新住民專責單位但是呢我現在看的我們第4條新住民的專人單位只有專人專人不到是一個人還是兩個人但是呢我們國民黨民進黨都是希望設一個專責叫專人"},{"start":52801.327,"end":52829.361,"text":"一個單位所以我不知道說為什麼所以我要的就是我們希望有一個新住民委員會因為呢我們希望有一個新住民委員會讓新住民在裡面服務大家因為我們要栽培人才要給予機會才能有一個平台讓大家發揮不是我們要每年編列預算去照顧新住民只是照顧"},{"start":52830.041,"end":52830.921,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":52851.95,"end":52872.257,"text":"事實上是叫行政命令沒辦法去照顧全部的新住民所以呢我為什麼這一次我要覺得說好我們不要有一個新住民委員會但是是不是有一個新住民發展署因為我們新住民60萬人他是偏部"},{"start":52872.817,"end":52892.475,"text":"全國我們要落實來去照顧我們要栽培就是讓他們在地服務在地為大家來照顧這個才是我們要栽培人才給予機會才讓新住民發揮不是一輩子都停留在我要照顧你"},{"start":52893.255,"end":52916.305,"text":"不是讓我們來去照顧其他人因為我們學習就是要照顧所以我也很感謝政府感謝我們民眾黨給我這個機會代表新住民來發聲但是呢我要講的民進黨執政那麼多年也是只有一個我們羅美玲委員當立委其他"},{"start":52917.225,"end":52931.795,"text":"有成立新住民委員會永遠只是穿著國服亮個相照個片就是叫做照片就是每一個人在那邊我擁抱新住民都是假的全部都是假的"},{"start":52932.475,"end":52954.666,"text":"你來我照顧你就是穿著狗服選舉的時候來就是一堆人來做說我很照顧新住民新住民來支持我到最後我要一個專責讓他來去服務大家讓大家來去發揮讓新住民為台灣來貢獻來服務這個就是我們想要的"},{"start":52959.301,"end":52981.793,"text":"謝謝接下來請張宏祿委員請發言院長各位同仁"},{"start":52982.776,"end":53012.099,"text":"我想我們大家在台灣的大街小巷都有吃過越南河粉都有吃過很多泰式餐廳我必須要說我們照顧新住民是我們應該的但不是只有照顧新住民跟我們的原住民跟我們的客家人是不一樣的我們的原住民世世代代他都是有原住民的身份"},{"start":53013.175,"end":53040.273,"text":"還有他自己的文化有他自己的語言但新住民我還是必須要說他經過一段時間之後就會成為中華民國的國民當他成為中華民國國民的時候我們要給他的不只是照顧我們要讓他更發展更茁壯成為台灣走向國際的新動力"},{"start":53041.338,"end":53060.166,"text":"這才是我們真正對新住民好啊而不是在這邊說對新住民要照顧要照顧我認為不是單純的照顧我必須要再說新住民跟原住民客家人是不一樣的概念"},{"start":53062.233,"end":53086.013,"text":"我們必須要在台灣在這個過程當中協助我們的新住民認同台灣讓他知道他以後就是中華民國的國民他只要認同台灣我相信他就會做很多很多我們想要幫助他的事情"},{"start":53086.96,"end":53115.819,"text":"而不是把它永遠灌在一個新住民的一個框框裡面所以在這第4條的修法裡面我真的要拜託大家大家支持民進黨的版本支持行政院的版本因為我看到其他政黨他所說的要設新住民族委員會中央三級機關各位這個不是真正要做事這個是在騙"},{"start":53117.205,"end":53137.793,"text":"為什麼如果以中央行政機關組織基準法裡面我們70個機關已滿了你要等到什麼時候才能夠真正的成立我們馬上成立一個師我們可以10倍20倍的人力可以馬上來幫新住民做事情但我們如果"},{"start":53139.209,"end":53163.022,"text":"沒有造行政院版本今天這樣子通過我們通過這個法案是空的你在等修法要等多久各位我必須在這邊再說我們要照顧新住民不是嘴巴講我們要付諸行動最好最快的行動就是能夠馬上照顧他們所以希望大家支持民進黨的版本"},{"start":53165.473,"end":53172.656,"text":"謝謝張宏祿委員的發言報言會現在我們表決民進黨黨團版本條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團版本請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53255.748,"end":53271.553,"text":"法院會報告表決結果出席106位贊成50位反對56位贊成者少數民進黨黨團版本條文不通過法院會現有現在表決台灣民眾黨團國民黨團修正動議條文現有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團國民黨團修正動議請函贊成反對請函反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53357.23,"end":53368.954,"text":"報告表決結果出席106位贊成57位反對49位贊成者多數我們做以下宣告第4條照台灣民眾黨團、國民黨黨團修正動議條文通過報告委員會現在進行第5條請宣讀條文"},{"start":53377.403,"end":53399.731,"text":"明星黨黨團修正動議第5條行政院為研議、協調及推動本法相關事務應定及召開新住民事務協調會報台灣民眾黨黨團與國民黨黨團修正動議相同第5條檢調機關設立前行政院為審議、協調本法相關事務涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者必要時得召開跨部會首長會議會同各目的事業主管機關辦理之宣讀完畢"},{"start":53406.389,"end":53426.145,"text":"委員會現在宣讀完畢我們黨團共事各黨團代表發言麥玉珍委員要不要發言放棄好麥玉珍委員放棄接下來第二號林柱英委員要不要發言要發言請時間三分鐘請尤浩委員準備尤浩委員"},{"start":53438.347,"end":53464.206,"text":"謝謝主席各位大院同仁現在時間來到晚上23點20分我想大家都辛苦了但是大家一直堅守在這裡其實當然就是希望表達對於新住民朋友的關心跟支持我想在第5條這個部分跟第4條當然是相連結的不過我想要再清楚的再說明一次那就是在民眾黨的版本的第4條跟第5條當中提到的內政部要偵測新住民專責的三級機關"},{"start":53466.528,"end":53472.891,"text":"這樣的一個三級機關在中央行政組織法當中的第33條就規定了三級機關現在滿邊最多就是70個單位違憲而目前就是處於滿邊的狀態如果說要設立這樣的一個三級機關這樣的一個事務機關的話就意味著會排擠到其他機關"},{"start":53486.798,"end":53508.791,"text":"而且必須在進行組織的修正那在這樣修正情況底下即使今天法案按照民眾黨的版本來通過之後它依舊無法來即時運作我就問大家如果是這樣為什麼不支持民進黨的版本我們就是透過中央部會定期的來召開所謂的專責匯報"},{"start":53510.652,"end":53536.502,"text":"法案通過一旦公布就可以來實施今天大院的大家如此辛苦的在這裡就是要共同的表達一個說法那就是新住民的朋友來到中華民國之後他們在融入我們的生活瞭解台灣的環境之後他是會成為中華民國的國民所以說在中華民國他享有跟國民一樣的保障"},{"start":53537.322,"end":53556.733,"text":"今天這一部法令跟法規應該是協助那些來到台灣出來乍到還不是完全融入台灣社會的過程當中他所面臨的方方面面的權益保障而不是把他拉高成為一個基本法因為這樣子感覺上好像"},{"start":53557.633,"end":53585.931,"text":"這些新住民朋友永遠都不是我們的家人但是剛剛我們看到的不論是民眾黨的委員或是國民黨的委員都講得非常好啊就是新住民的朋友就是我們的家人新住民朋友就是中華民國的國民如果是這樣這一部法令跟法規要協助的應該是那些出來炸到還沒有辦法跟我們共存共榮的新住民朋友"},{"start":53586.531,"end":53606.605,"text":"如果說今天他在獲得了中華民國的身份之後他獲得的是我們憲法的保障是扎扎實實的保障如果是這樣的話那麼就應該回歸到我們現有的法規當中而不是像現在要去再設一個所謂的專責的三級機構我知道時間晚了"},{"start":53610.907,"end":53625.954,"text":"剛剛議事人員來詢問我要不要發言因為我在這裡要代表民進黨代表所有的同仁我們從過去到現在到未來都是支持新住民好 謝謝謝謝林淑英委員接下來請登記第3號油耗委員請發言"},{"start":53634.292,"end":53657.205,"text":"謝謝謝謝院長、議事人員還有在座所有的好朋友那在剛才延續著我們國民黨團及民眾黨團的發言在第五條前條機關設立前行政院委審議協調本法相關事務涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者必要時得召開跨部會首長會議會同各的目的事業主管機關辦理之"},{"start":53658.73,"end":53679.98,"text":"本席在這邊還是要重申國民黨以及民眾黨一直對於新住民的權益還包括新住民的基本法的一個重視與推動相信在2017年10月林立禪立委他起草這部法案到現在歷經了7、8年時間看到了民進黨完全的執政但是新住民基本法依舊沒有通過"},{"start":53680.9,"end":53697.091,"text":"我們也希望說藉由在今天能夠通過還能夠讓大家的表決通過我們也要看到當初大家表決到現在也是因為這麼重要的新住民法案還被標上了抹紅的標籤向各位反思一下"},{"start":53697.851,"end":53721.472,"text":"在支持新住民、捍衛新住民權益、為他們爭取權益的時候不要小和尚念經、有口無心大家在招酸苦,剛才很多新住民都跟他說會支持會盡量跟新住民的權益來斟酌那現在來講在新住民的基本法大家又需要共同一心來支持那我相信今天的基本法它能夠通過表決之後"},{"start":53721.912,"end":53734.538,"text":"未來在我們看待這個機關還能夠有更高的位階來去主責我們看到那麼多跌床降屋的機關機構我們更是要思考如何讓新住民有專責的單位專責的權責來照顧新住民"},{"start":53737.819,"end":53763.166,"text":"未來希望我們中華民國的國民在新住民在裡面的時候我們看他們都一樣他們看我們都一樣權益都一樣未來的發展都一樣那才是真正的為新住民在打拼新住民爭取權益不應該如此辛苦所以本席在這裡還是要代表國民黨以及民眾黨民眾黨團第5條的部分我們一起為新住民加油"},{"start":53765.515,"end":53782.881,"text":"謝謝游浩委員的發言謝謝報告委員會現有蔡易瑜委員聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄報告委員會現在表決民進黨黨團修正動議條文現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成民進黨黨團修正動議條文請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53866.24,"end":53879.608,"text":"報告委員會現在報告表決結果出席105位贊成49位反對56位贊成者少數民黨黨團修正動議條文不通過報告委員會現在表決台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨團修正動議條文現有民進黨團台灣民眾黨團要求記名表決記名表決贊成台灣民眾黨團國民黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間1分鐘現在開始"},{"start":53967.591,"end":53981.639,"text":"報告表決結果出席106位贊成56位反對50位贊成者多數做以下宣告第5條照台灣民眾黨黨團國民黨黨團修正動議條文通過報告委員陳穎委員聲明對剛才表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄"},{"start":53994.875,"end":54007.846,"text":"報告委員會現在進行吳思瑤委員提案第6條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納本條就不予採納報告委員會現在進行第6條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54011.431,"end":54033.07,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第6條政府應每年針對我國新住民總體支持事項檢討並改進其內容應包括下列事項一、我國新住民支持政策之基本方向二、我國新住民支持政策於各領域中之具體措施三、相關具體措施之成效分析四、新住民支持經費之來源及分配五、其他新住民支持相關事項"},{"start":54034.611,"end":54042.919,"text":"原理定定或檢討新住民支持具體措施時﹐得邀集相關學者、專家及民間團體﹐代表列席提供意見宣讀完畢"},{"start":54058.34,"end":54082.587,"text":"謝謝謝謝謝謝大家主席要宣告報告委員會第6條我們就行政院提案條文通過現在進行第7條請宣讀條文謝謝民進黨黨團修正動議第7條為研擬、訂定或檢討相關支持事項政府應每5年進行調查擬定計畫並將調查結果公開於網站宣讀完畢報告委員會第7條就照行政院提案條文通過"},{"start":54084.218,"end":54089.533,"text":"現在我們進行第8條請宣讀三個黨團共同修正動議條文"},{"start":54091.201,"end":54116.446,"text":"三黨共提修政動議第8條為推動新住民與其子女及家庭照顧輔導服務人力資源培訓及發展無障礙語言環境建構多元文化社會有效整合政府及民間資源特設置新住民發展基金新住民發展基金管理會之委員組成納入具新住民或新住民子女身份之代表新住民發展基金收支保管及運用辦法由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":54117.426,"end":54135.658,"text":"好 報告委員會第8條就照三個黨團共同修正動議條文通過報告委員會蘇巧惠委員等提案第10條王美惠等提案第9條羅美玲等提案第6條邱振軍等提案第4條民黨黨團修正動議我們不予採納報告委員會現在進行第9條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54144.332,"end":54159.2,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第9條政府應與國家考試設立新住民事務相關類科以因應新住民公務之需求宣讀完畢報告委員會第9條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第10條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54161.618,"end":54182.452,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第10條政府應辦理生活適應輔導、醫療生育保健、就業權益保障提升教育文化、協助子女教養、人身安全保護、健全法令制度及落實觀念宣導等相關措施以維護新住民及其子女在台之權益前項服務措施政府應致力提供多語言服務宣讀完畢"},{"start":54183.473,"end":54188.957,"text":"第四條條文照行政院提案條文通過委員會現在進行審查會通過第12條民進黨團修正動議不予採納就不予採納現在進行第11條請宣讀三個黨團共同修正動議條文"},{"start":54201.485,"end":54219.759,"text":"三黨共提修正動議第11條直轄市縣市政府應設新住民家庭服務中心對於在台之新住民家庭提供家庭婚姻及育兒等諮詢服務以及心理與法律諮詢之資源轉介對於新住民家庭之子女政府應提供輔導措施以協助其適應生活宣讀完畢"},{"start":54220.459,"end":54239.7,"text":"第11條就照三個黨團共同修正動議條文通過法院會現在進行第12條請宣讀條文民進黨黨團修正動議第12條政府應規劃結合相關資源及學校積極提供新住民學習五國語言及文字支援以有效"},{"start":54240.521,"end":54256.27,"text":"消除語言隔閡政府應提供獎勵措施結合各級學校家庭與社區推動新住民語言及我國語言學習並提供新住民子女教育協助宣讀完畢第12條照行政院提案條文通過報告委員會現在進行第13條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54259.366,"end":54279.737,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第13條政府應獎勵或輔助新住民學術研究鼓勵大專院校院設立新住民學術相關院系所學位學成培育新住民專業人才宣讀完畢第13條照行政院提案條文通過現在請進行第14條宣讀條文"},{"start":54283.459,"end":54303.004,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第14條政府應鼓勵相關機關、各團體辦理新住民就業服務提供就業諮詢、就業媒合及輔導取得技術事證促進其就業宣讀完畢第14條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第15條宣讀條文"},{"start":54304.994,"end":54327.179,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第15條政府應提供新住民關懷協助並對弱勢新住民給予輔助宣讀完畢第15條照行政院提案條文通過報院會現在進行吳思瑤委員等提案第17條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納我們就不予採納現在進行第16條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54330.68,"end":54353.308,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第16條政府機關構處理新住民事務因使新住民得以其語言陳述意見必要時應提供該語言之通譯服務政府應於公共領域提供新住民語言諮詢等服務及其他落實新住民語言友善環境之措施助有績效者得予獎勵宣讀完畢"},{"start":54353.868,"end":54381.684,"text":"第16條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第17條請宣讀條文民進黨黨團修正動議第17條政府應鼓勵各媒體事業自播新著名語言文化之廣播、電視節目或影音並得予獎勵或補助以保障新著名媒體禁用權宣讀完畢第17條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行第18條"},{"start":54384.025,"end":54400.979,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第18條政府應鼓勵新住民投入公共參與、增進多元文化交流宣讀完畢第18條照行政院提案條文通過現在進行吳思瑤委員等提案第21條民進黨黨團修正動議不予採納就不予採納現在進行第19條請宣讀條文"},{"start":54409.326,"end":54426.029,"text":"民進黨黨團修正動議第19條本法施行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢第19條照行政院提案條文通過報告院會全案經過二讀現有三個黨團提議繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們請宣讀經過二讀這條文好"},{"start":54435.919,"end":54449.266,"text":"名稱新住民基本法第一條為落實憲法保障多元文化精神保障新住民基本權益協助其融入我國社會建立共存共融之族群關係特制定本法"},{"start":54451.392,"end":54474.5,"text":"本法所稱新住民只符合下列情形之一者一、居許可在台灣地區居留一、親居留、長期居留或永久居留之外國人五、國籍人民、大陸地區人民、香港或澳門居民其配偶為居住台灣地區設有戶籍國民二、一、入出國籍移民法第二、三條第一項、第一款至第七款、第九款、第十款、第二項或第三項"},{"start":54475.28,"end":54496.418,"text":"經許可在台灣地區居留或依該法第25條經許可永久居留或從事外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第4目、第5目、第8條、第10條之專業工作或依該法第15條第一項取得工作許可並經許可在台灣地區居留或永久居留一、一台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例"},{"start":54497.819,"end":54524.298,"text":"第17條第4項規定經專案許可在台灣地區長期居留或依香港澳門關係條例經許可在台灣地區居留且其居留事由與符合法定條件後依法得申請在台灣地區定居第1款或第2款規定是外國人或無國籍人民經規劃取得我國國籍以台灣地區無戶籍國民身份在台灣地區居留"},{"start":54524.818,"end":54549.04,"text":"五、第一款或第三款規定之大陸地區人民、香港或澳門居民前款規定之台灣地區無戶及國民或依台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第16條第二項規定經許可在台灣地區定居前項第一款及第二款經許可居留之外國人以未兼具我國國籍者為限無法保障對象及於新住民子女"},{"start":54552.012,"end":54574.685,"text":"本法主管機關為內政部本法所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由各目的事業主管機關辦理內政部應設置新住民事務專責中央三級行政機關以統籌規劃、研究、諮詢、協調、推動、促進新住民就學、就業、培力、關懷協助及多元服務之相關事宜"},{"start":54575.906,"end":54588.417,"text":"第5條前條機關設立前,行政院為審議、協調本法相關事務、涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者必要時得召開跨部會首長會議,會同各目的事業主管機關辦理之"},{"start":54592.537,"end":54614.223,"text":"第6條政府應每年針對我國新住民總體支持事項檢討並改進其內容應包括下列事項一、我國新住民支持政策之基本方向二、我國新住民支持政策於各領域中之具體措施三、相關具體措施之成效分析四、新住民支持經費之來源及分配五、其他新住民支持相關事項"},{"start":54616.124,"end":54633.35,"text":"定定或檢討新住民支持具體措施時﹐得邀集相關學者專家及民間團體代表列席提供意見第7條為研擬、定定或檢討相關知識事項﹐政府應每5年進行調查、擬定計畫﹐並將調查結果公開於網站"},{"start":54638.427,"end":54662.202,"text":"第8條 為推動新住民與其子女及家庭照顧、輔導、服務﹐人力資源培訓及發展﹐無障礙語言環境﹐建構多元文化社會﹐有效整合政府及民間資源﹐特設置新住民發展基金﹐新住民發展基金管理會及委員組成﹐納入具新住民或新住民子女身份之代表﹐新住民發展基金收支保管及運用辦法有行政院定之"},{"start":54663.444,"end":54689.59,"text":"第9條政府應與國家考試設立新住民事務相關類科﹐以因應新住民公務之需求第10條政府應辦理生活適應輔導﹐醫療生育保健﹐就業權益保障﹐提升教育文化﹐協助子女教養﹐人身安全保護﹐健全法令制度及落實觀念宣導等相關措施﹐以維護新住民及其子女在台之權益"},{"start":54690.63,"end":54714.616,"text":"前項服務措施政府應致力提供多語言服務第11條直轄市縣市政府應設新住民家庭服務中心對於在台之新住民家庭提供家庭婚姻及育兒等諮詢服務以及心理與法律諮詢之資源轉介對於新住民家庭之子女政府應提供輔導措施以協助其適應生活"},{"start":54716.007,"end":54734.454,"text":"第12條政府應規劃結合相關資源及學校﹐積極提供新住民學習我國語言及文字之資源﹐以有效消除語言隔閡政府應提供獎勵措施﹐結合各級學校、家庭與社區推動新住民語言及我國語言學習﹐並提供新住民子女教育協助"},{"start":54736.599,"end":54760.548,"text":"第13條政府應獎勵或補助新住民學術研究鼓勵大專校院設立新住民學術相關院系所學位學成培育新住民專業人才第14條政府應鼓勵相關機關構團體辦理新住民就業服務提供就業諮詢、就業媒合及輔導取得技術事證促進其就業"},{"start":54762.708,"end":54786.566,"text":"第15條政府應提供新住民關懷協助並對弱勢新住民給予輔助第16條政府機關構處理新住民事務﹐應使新住民得以其語言陳述意見﹐必要時應提供該語言之同意服務政府應於公共領域提供新住民語言諮詢等服務﹐及其他落實新住民語言友善環境之措施﹐助有績效者得予獎勵"},{"start":54788.362,"end":54811.434,"text":"第17條政府應鼓勵各媒體事業致播新住民語言文化之廣播、電視節目或影音並得予獎勵或補助以保障新住民媒體禁用權第18條政府應鼓勵新住民投入公共參與增進多元文化交流第19條文法施行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":54813.885,"end":54835.09,"text":"報告委員會三讀條文已宣讀完畢請問院會有無任何文字修正沒有修正我們決議新住民基本法制定通過報告委員會我們繼續處理審查會及院會所作附帶決議請議事人員一併宣讀附帶決議之內容"},{"start":54838.935,"end":54864.107,"text":"審查會通過附帶決議二項一有限於居住台灣地區人民受歧視申訴辦法第三條及第五條之規定顯對不按中文之新住民極不友善要求移民署儘速改善必使新住民便利使用申訴機制二要求內政部就業管部分定期盤點就反歧視相關法案行政命令檢討修正國民黨附帶決議一"},{"start":54869.89,"end":54890.996,"text":"請行政院於本法通過6個月內﹐針對外國人依法取得永久居留﹐盤點現行相關法律政策措施﹐將書面報告送立法院二﹐請內政部於本法通過6個月後﹐邀請民間團體及學者專家檢討《入出國籍移民法》第62條現行執行狀況之問題﹐並嚴提精進對策"},{"start":54900.586,"end":54927.611,"text":"三、為促進國際合作政府應鼓勵推動新住民與其母國之交流措施以促進我國與其母國兼經濟、社會、文化、宗教及學術等四項之交流合作四、本法立法通過施行一年後主管機關應提出新住民權益保障相關措施執行報告以落實新住民各項基本權益之保障民眾黨黨團互待決議一"},{"start":54930.769,"end":54958.969,"text":"教育部於本法通過三個月內嚴提嚴釐由中央主管機關統一定定徵選標準之可行性以嚴加把關施肢專業能力二請內政部於本法三讀通過後一年內嚴議檢討同意制度相關精進作為以確保新住民的權益不會因為語言差異而受到損害民進黨團"},{"start":54960.302,"end":54974.612,"text":"戶待決議一為了確保新住民事務能夠有效協調與推動要求行政院於本法三讀通過後三個月內研議修改設置要點增加新住民事務協調匯報之召開頻率戶待決議二"},{"start":54980.404,"end":55008.059,"text":"要求行政院於本法三讀通過後一年內研議檢討通譯制度相關精進作為並研議設立通譯培訓與認證專責單位宣讀完畢請問院會對附帶決有異議沒有異議我們決定照案通過報告院會現在繼續處理附議案兩件依先後順序處理請議事人員宣讀第一案"},{"start":55010.558,"end":55033.12,"text":"本院民進黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議一事日程報告事項第17案委員陳雪生等21人擬具離島建設條例第8條條文修正草案第18案委員陳雪生等22人擬具離島建設條例增訂第12條之二條文草案案院會所作決定提出覆議是否有當進行公決"},{"start":55036.032,"end":55054.679,"text":"本案作以下決定令定其處理繼續請議事人員宣讀第二案本院民進黨團針對立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議一事日程報告事項國民黨黨團陣列第4案委員翁曉琳等17人擬具憲法訴訟法第4條條文修正長案台灣民眾黨黨團陣列第二案"},{"start":55066.423,"end":55086.025,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團擬具《農資公司法草案》、《第一層草案》、《原列第15案》本院委員陳永康等26人擬具《國家安全戰略法草案》案：委員所作決定提出復議請公決案宣讀完畢本案作以下決定另定其處理報告委員會今天是第11屆"},{"start":55087.677,"end":55115.862,"text":"第一會期宴會最後一個宴會日我想這個會期大家一定都收穫很大學習很多感慨也很多我們是三黨不過半113位立法委員幾乎有一半是新進的立委難免會有碰撞磨合我們也打架吵架拉扯但是我們也有溫暖團結合作30多年前我第一次當立法委員在台下質詢官員"},{"start":55117.202,"end":55142.922,"text":"每天磨刀霍霍充滿著理想想要職強力監督行政部門30多年之後坐在院長席位看到委員跟官員的互動諮詢我真心的感覺民主實在太可貴了所以在這個一個會期我們的磨合、我們的努力、我們的衝突不管怎麼樣我們得到了相當不錯的成果各位親愛的委員同仁我們通過了55個議案"},{"start":55145.373,"end":55158.282,"text":"包括法律案40個案、條約案3個案、復議案2個案以及其他議案10個案這裏面分4大塊包括保障人民的權益提升再生醫療打擊詐騙的危害"},{"start":55162.385,"end":55180.348,"text":"防制詐騙、詐欺犯罪危害等等強化保護海洋生態以及維護軍人跟勞工所以非常非常的不錯的成績來跟大家一起分享都是大家的努力在會期即將結束的時候"},{"start":55181.309,"end":55206.5,"text":"我們國於向代表立法院向所有的黨團所有的委員以及全體工作夥伴以及媒體朋友還有駐衛警的同仁們以及海內外關心立法院所有的好朋友們致上最高的謝意也祝福所有委員在休會期間大家平安健康祝福大家謝謝現在宣布散會"}]}},{"id":"154850","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154850","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7e5ef3d649cba376ab49a0c6dcc45fc3abaa9d91014138eaa4568268f2da45e0f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"23:24:05 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以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154836","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154836","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa73431f53c575415cbb49a0c6dcc45fc3a51efb3ecfee0069b508f01eb9e990b995ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"22:09:48 - 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遺憾民進黨捏狂還要捏歪"},{"start":113.308,"end":131.933,"text":"這個民眾黨在協商的過程中已經主動撤回不堅持有爭議的相關法條在野黨在協商的過程中其實也多次讓步大家都秉持先求有再求好的精神來討論這個法案但最後很遺憾我們台灣民眾黨還是被扣上了紅帽子"},{"start":132.853,"end":159.955,"text":"以至於最終側牽翻桌讓今天大家要繼續加班協商破裂雖然可惜但既然如此我們不妨回歸初心支持基本法的概念也在此呼籲我們的政府應儘速準備相關的配套政策與法令修正不管怎麼樣法條的內容還是要認真的執行大家共同努力一起給新入名的好朋友更多的保障感謝大家謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154835","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154835","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa75a4b59e1de7bdb66b49a0c6dcc45fc3a51efb3ecfee0069bcb86a12d45e21ec65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"22:06:11 - 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謝謝好 謝謝各位委員請保持肅靜各位委員請尊重發言的委員請"},{"start":23.032,"end":37.884,"text":"好 主席各位同仁修法其實就是把不同的意見帶到會議當中大家可以整合並且在這個過程當中也許你聽到了新的意見甚至修改自己原來的意見這都不是壞事"},{"start":38.544,"end":56.927,"text":"我必須說其實像在這一次的修法當中我自己本人就是從新住民的基本法改換成為了新住民權益保障法大家都是基於保障新住民的權益這種初衷共同來思考如何的立法是最好的"},{"start":57.387,"end":70.217,"text":"而且又可以符合法治的體力最好的形式來保障新住民權益可是很遺憾的在經過內政委員會兩次委員會討論以及7月2號、7月9號甚至7月12號這院長召集的協商這麼多次的會議之後我們本來已經由不同黨派大家經過討論雖然很困難但是有一個共識包括名稱我們就是要用"},{"start":86.389,"end":107.744,"text":"新住民權益保障法用這樣作用法的形式來讓新住民的權益可以更快更全面的達到保障但今天這一切都變化了我們曾經拿掉大家都有共識喔大家都有共識之下拿掉可能會出現國安漏洞的條文今天又再次出現在會場上"},{"start":109.525,"end":122.97,"text":"協議法又再次消失成為了基本法我覺得這是非常可惜的事情我們必須說其實新住民的身份是暫時的是過度的是我們希望能夠"},{"start":124.07,"end":125.71,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":142.595,"end":165.735,"text":"客家人原住民這種基於血緣是不一樣的待遇不一樣的利基所以他並不是用基本法這樣子的最高的精神立法精神來做處理更何況我們如果今天是新住民用基本法這樣的架構來處理的話基本法在法律的解釋上是優於一般法"},{"start":166.235,"end":193.104,"text":"那麼我們往後這一部新住民的基本法未接將會架空陸委會和現行法律也就是台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例還有香港澳門關係條例將產生隔閡未來這個法律競合要怎麼處理這就是過去我們在幾次閒商當中大家最最認真的討論就是在這個部分而我們本已達成共識但"},{"start":194.184,"end":195.185,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"}]}},{"id":"154834","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154834","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7cf19692be4798dc9b49a0c6dcc45fc3a51efb3ecfee0069b250870e6442c78765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"22:02:30 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謝謝各位同仁我們很欣慰今天《省錢防治法》通過那剛剛大家所表決的這個法案我要在這邊特別的再強調為什麼台灣民眾黨非常堅持要在第19條要把它修正的加重因為"},{"start":25.948,"end":42.364,"text":"審查會通過的條文裡面很清楚他是一年以上七年以下但是我們的條文是三年以上十年以下這是在一億元以上的洗錢犯如果按照原來的版本一年以上七年以下洗錢大戶是有機會透過"},{"start":45.223,"end":60.323,"text":"認罪、協商甚至去罰錢他就可以免於刑責可以緩起訴、可以緩刑所以我們的法條修得非常清楚我們必須要在最低本刑三年以上我們才能夠懲戒所謂的洗錢大戶"},{"start":61.144,"end":62.384,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：請"},{"start":83.852,"end":98.785,"text":"這個《洗錢防治法》從頭到尾都在幫金管會擦屁股為什麼?他把虛擬資產業者放進來管一部《洗錢防治法》本來應該好好的去規範洗錢的行為但是我們成為了虛擬資產業者的管理辦法"},{"start":101.247,"end":127.654,"text":"所以剛剛聽到那麼多的附帶決議全部都是在幫金管會在這麼多年以來忽略了新興通路忽略了相關的新興的產業他們對於洗錢的行為這些防制作為金管會視而不見沒有看見所以剛剛下了非常多的決議要他們在6個月之內包括第三方支付包括數位資產、虛擬資產這些都必須要列入管理"},{"start":128.314,"end":131.839,"text":"金管會把責任推給了法務部這部洗錢防治法"}]}},{"id":"154825","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154825","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7f69486aaf3c17b4ab49a0c6dcc45fc3abb90f677001292057fcbc83bc95981385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"20:27:03 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19:35:53","影片長度":"00:03:14","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-16","start_time":"2024-07-16T19:32:39+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T19:35:53+08:00","duration":194,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議","id":"院會-11-1-22","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.78909375,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.320343750000003,"end":14.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.066593750000003,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.58096875,"end":23.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.824718750000002,"end":26.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.570968750000002,"end":36.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.58221875,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.42034375,"end":51.719093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.90471875,"end":61.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.945343750000006,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.50471875000001,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.32721875,"end":107.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.89596875000001,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.07659375,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.64284375000003,"end":189.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.73971875,"end":192.47346875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.786,"end":35.251,"text":"主席在場的委員先進國人所痛恨的詐欺行為我們這次打詐司法當中非常重要的就是洗錢防治法因為可以說大部分的詐欺所得必須透過洗錢的方式才能轉為犯罪集團所使用然而洗錢的過程它牽涉到許多的階段將詐欺所得或是犯罪所得透過洗錢的方式可能包括有類似車手這樣的職場小白他們所從與協助的"},{"start":36.673,"end":58.849,"text":"又類似像一些灰色地帶從事地下匯兌或是典當業或是資源回收業大量現金回流的他們兼做這樣的洗錢工作這是另外一種那最為可惡的就是犯罪集團以專門設置的水房來從事洗錢的業務因此根據這三種不同的樣態最早在洗錢防治法第14條它是處以7年以下或罰併科500萬的罰金"},{"start":62.071,"end":86.567,"text":"但是在實務上呢往往因為這樣的刑度在法官量刑的時候對於出犯者都是以6個月以下得一顆罰金造成民眾對於說參與洗錢來協助詐欺這樣的罪犯不能得到應有的懲罰因此這次呢部分黨派我們在這次的洗錢防治法改列為19條之後呢就開始產生了需要有兩種不同的刑度首先對於較嚴重者"},{"start":87.628,"end":99.168,"text":"以不以他的前置犯罪為目的我們就以單純的洗錢就主張應該定為一年以上七年以下並以一億元的這個財產所得的洗錢的財產"},{"start":100.54,"end":106.346,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":121.883,"end":138.798,"text":"一年一年以上七年以下的這樣的一個刑度很容易在初犯或良刑的時候從一年起跳我們知道兩年以下得以緩刑也因此很多以洗錢為業的詐欺祖先在這樣的刑度之下仍然可以倒脫法律的制裁"},{"start":139.358,"end":153.379,"text":"因此在民黨團參酌了各黨團的意見之後我們主張仍然以現在的審查會意見我們維持一億以上跟以下分別定有一年以上七年以下的刑度對於嚴重者處以較高的刑度處罰"},{"start":154.52,"end":177.745,"text":"在1億以下的我們處以6個月以上5年以下但是對於符合《組織犯罪條例》所說的這個以發起、主持、操作或指揮者這尤其惡性重大我們予以定到3年以上5年以下並得課以1億5000萬的罰金相信這樣三個刑度的量刑能夠分別就參與洗錢的罪犯所給予他們應有的懲罰"},{"start":179.085,"end":192.399,"text":"當然目前我們看到另外兩個黨團的版本分別是3年以上10年以下跟這個所謂的來抱歉我想我們就請大家支持民進黨的版本"}]}},{"id":"154822","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154822","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa774bb525cac1e6335b49a0c6dcc45fc3aea32533940f0de545d5d57c87ccf072a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"19:29:15 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鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":20.424,"end":38.924,"text":"院長、本院委員這一次洗錢防治法的修正我們希望一方面有事前的管制但重要的事情是對於重大洗錢犯的行為絕對有必要加重處罰現行洗錢防治法不區分"},{"start":39.665,"end":39.925,"text":"請審議案：本院委員"},{"start":58.46,"end":73.611,"text":"這樣的狀態在年輕人涉及到金額比較低的洗錢犯罪的時候我們認為的確有給予自新的必要不宜重判但是當我們今天所考慮到的"},{"start":74.171,"end":98.148,"text":"是洗錢所涉及的財產或者是財產上的利益高達一億元以上的話如果我們對於這種犯罪的處罰只是維持現在的七年以下有期徒刑再加一個樓地板一年以上有期徒刑的話根本沒有辦法給這種重大洗錢犯適度的處罰"},{"start":99.429,"end":118.229,"text":"詐欺洗錢可以說是一體的兩面洗錢犯的存在有他獨自所要保護的利益因此台灣民眾黨黨團在這一次我們針對洗錢防治法第19條提出修正動議認為洗錢如果"},{"start":122.052,"end":140.86,"text":"財務或財產上利益高達1億元以上的話必須要處3年以上10年以下的有期徒刑這樣子才可以有效遏止重大的洗錢罪犯特別是針對有組織性的長期的系統性的洗錢"},{"start":142.079,"end":161.01,"text":"如果說今天我們針對這種重大洗錢犯只是透過組織犯罪防制條例首腦的條文來駕以處罰的話組織犯罪防制條例對於犯罪組織的首腦本來就已經處了3年以上10年以下有期徒刑的法定刑"},{"start":161.73,"end":177.461,"text":"如果再加上洗錢1億以上還是科與相當的刑度的話我們認為這樣子立法上面的規範根本沒有辦法適切反映出他所應該要承擔的罪責因此"},{"start":178.513,"end":188.279,"text":"在打仗非常重要的現在切斷不罰洗錢的金流特別是對於這種洗錢大戶加重處罰我們認為是現在社會對我們的期待謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154821","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154821","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa71bcfa5fc45c5e955b49a0c6dcc45fc3a9285d9ecd8532a85fc958fb506399f075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"17:54:20 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15條之一到15條之四已經嚴重的抵觸憲法的原來規定"},{"start":85.407,"end":108.421,"text":"因為憲法原來的規定給予國民大會的是得聽取總統國情報告並檢討國事提供建言提供建言是向總統提出但是現在的政修條文並沒有立法院可以向總統提供建言的相關規定因此2008年立法院之言行使法將聽取總統國情報告之後"},{"start":110.242,"end":136.79,"text":"透過15條之三、之四擅自增加了立法委員可以向總統提出他們的看法之後他其實至少他保留了由總統一期意願來決定是否做補充說明然而這次的我們的立法院職員行事法的擴選法案當中將由總統一期意願來予以做補充說明把它改成了因"},{"start":138.052,"end":150.699,"text":"而這裡面我們看到民眾黨說明雖然他根據的是15條之二來邀請總統然而他在最後面的第二行並依法回應立法委員之提問依什麼法"},{"start":151.653,"end":176.349,"text":"一、擴增、擴全扣折立法委員職權新施法嗎?憲法中二條文第四條第三項有說總統要來回應立法委員的提問嗎?沒有所以這明顯的就是一個不理解台灣我們中華民國憲法在中二條文嚴格的過程中由國民大會轉來讓渡給立法委員的職權當中修憲者已經有所修改了"},{"start":177.009,"end":191.097,"text":"國民大會可以監討國事提供建言立法院只能聽取總統國情報告所以呼籲大家在憲法法庭上位作出暫時處分前我們這樣的提議還是回歸到舊法來行使以上說明"}]}},{"id":"154819","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154819","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa740b6fd72ecaa3abab49a0c6dcc45fc3a9285d9ecd8532a856459bee0242884af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"17:47:48 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謝謝主席那這一個關於286條這個修正當然很多人會提到最近這一個虐童的案件但我還是要這個再次呼籲就是虐童相關的案件有很多的行政措施他其實可以在第一步的時候就預防讓這件事情不要發生不管是地方政府的一個審查的機制然後還是說機構本身的審查機制這其實吳寧是更為重要我們不希望是等到事情發生以後"},{"start":40.52,"end":53.184,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣�"},{"start":65.888,"end":89.137,"text":"但是286條本身就有一個很大的疑義是在於說當時277跟286一同在修正的時候277提高的比較多286提高的比較少那就會形成一個詭異的現象因為如果我直接直接做傷害我會因為兒少法112條加重二分之一我用286的時候沒有辦法直接做加重因為它是一個特別規定"},{"start":89.597,"end":108.047,"text":"但它如果是一個特別規定那你直接做傷害刑度高286即使按照這一次因為它的法定型沒有修正我們只有針對未滿7歲的家中所以我今天在協商的時候有講得很清楚它是一個比較快速大概我們因為必須要先提高刑度來做一個威嚇可能不得已的做法"},{"start":108.627,"end":131.054,"text":"但是在未來如果真的要預防或者說真的要以橫平性跟比例原則來講的話其實還是應該要回到第一項跟第二項去研擬到底凌虐跟傷害的不同在哪裡因為畢竟凌虐不一定會造成傷害那用這樣的一個方式呢才更能夠反映目前台灣社會的現狀也才能夠真正預防未來事件的發生謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154804","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154804","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7419b4c4c39e372c4b49a0c6dcc45fc3aad23f9b49b70f1d504c117b4160d12fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"16:48:26 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help，尤其是健保法裡面的總額，這三條到了該要整修、好好澈底檢討的時候。","一些公家醫院的院長跑出來說1點1塊錢會衝量，這是胡說八道！公家醫院的土地、醫院的建築，幾百億都是公家拿錢出來蓋，每一年還有公務預算、公務人員的補貼等等，私人醫院、社團法人醫院要自己買地、自己蓋房子、自己準備工具，還要付薪水、還要更新設備，他們拿的健保費用跟公家醫院一樣，所以最沒有立場講點值的就是臺大跟榮總，這是我個人的看法，事實上也是這樣，所以給醫護人員一條生路，大家一起加油，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。","接下來請登記第2號陳昭姿委員發言，請王正旭委員準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137115","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137115_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條、第十四條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案─協商後處理─","agenda_id":"1137115_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.49596875,"end":25.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.204093750000002,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.01346875,"end":32.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.696593750000005,"end":36.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.00409375,"end":38.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.23159375,"end":40.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.53096875,"end":41.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.79221875,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.39034375,"end":50.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.111593750000004,"end":54.672218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.752218750000004,"end":56.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.524093750000006,"end":62.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.126593750000005,"end":65.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.83909375,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.88034375000001,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.10784375,"end":76.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.72784375,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.68534375,"end":80.25471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.94659375,"end":82.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.78596875000001,"end":84.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.87846875000001,"end":86.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.76409375,"end":88.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.65846875000001,"end":89.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":97.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.10846875,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.28471875000001,"end":105.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.85409375,"end":107.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.81159375,"end":116.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.98721875000001,"end":124.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.39971875,"end":142.69221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":21.533,"end":41.326,"text":"主席、各位同仁還有媒體朋友大家好對於今天健保法的修法沒有成功我個人是非常的失望那用主決議跟附帶決議這到底有多少效力我都打問號醫界也打問號"},{"start":42.847,"end":52.774,"text":"我們健保法裡面的總額制度已經實施了22年22年尤其是最近15年越來越嚴重我請問你們全民健保的滿意度是79.3%醫護人員的滿意度只有三成"},{"start":66.892,"end":86.849,"text":"有這個制度一直壓榨一直剝削一直踐踏一直蹂躪所有的醫護人員然後來迎合政府的光彩跑到WHA跑到瑞士在那邊吹牛台灣can help台灣沒有辦法can help現在人點滴都要need help"},{"start":87.856,"end":116.749,"text":"所以建保法尤其裡面的總額這三條是該道要整修要好好的徹底檢討的時候我們一些大公家醫院的院長也跑出來說一點一塊錢會充量這是胡說八道公家醫院它的土地它的醫院的建築幾百億都是公家拿錢出來蓋每年還有公務預算公務人員的補貼等等"},{"start":118.115,"end":142,"text":"施仁醫院、社團法人醫院﹐自己買地、自己買起儲﹐自己穿鞋子﹐還有付薪水﹐還有更新設備﹐他們拿的健保的費用﹐跟公家醫院是一樣﹐所以最沒有立場講點責任﹐就是臺大跟榮總﹐這是我個人的看法﹐事實上也是這樣﹐所以給醫務人員一條生路﹐大家一起加油﹐謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154797","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154797","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7725c2d64b334e3ddb49a0c6dcc45fc3aad23f9b49b70f1d51b0042045124b01f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"16:21:57 - 16:24:08","影片長度":"00:02:11","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-16","start_time":"2024-07-16T16:21:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T16:24:08+08:00","duration":131,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議","id":"院會-11-1-22","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":235,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（16時22分）主席、各位同仁。在探討NCC委員的產生，包括行政部門的任命權以及立法院行使同意權，我們不得不回到大法官解釋第613號的規範，其中有一段，我想分享給大家：基於權力分立原則，行使立法權之立法院對行政院有關通傳會委員之人事決定權固非不能施以一定限制，以為制衡，惟制衡仍有其界限，除不能牴觸憲法明白規定外，亦不能將人事決定權予以實質剝奪或逕行取代之。就是這個613號的釋字案，我們在委員會、在朝野協商，透過充分的論述、討論、對話，終於阻卻了國民黨原始要以政黨比例來提名委員的任命，乃至於剛剛民眾黨團的公視模式沒有在這次修法入法，我們予以肯定，我們擋下了違憲的條文。但是剛剛所通過的國民黨的修正動議，第一項規定通傳會委員的連任限制，以及刪除第五項有關延任的規定，事實上都對於NCC的職權行使造成扞格，NCC首重於通訊傳播產業監理的經驗傳承，實在不宜訂定再任的限制，可以擔任NCC委員的都是長期在相關領域有相當長才，有業界、有學術的基底，但是因此來限制了他們的延任，這非常不智，也相當可惜。至於過渡的條款絕非在野黨所解釋的萬年條款，是為了基於穩定NCC的日常運作來重視臺灣的通訊民生，所以說這次的修法非常遺憾，但是未來希望在野黨如他們所說的，不再阻卻NCC的人事同意權，希望能夠履行我們立法委員應負的職責，讓NCC的委員能夠完成投票，讓他們同意權的行使能夠順利，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言。","報告院會，各黨團推派委員均已發言完畢。","報告院會，我們進入討論事項第三十五案本院委員翁曉玲等人建請院會決議將郭國文委員移送紀律委員會一案。","報告院會，本案因尚待協商，作以下決議：協商後再行處理。","報告院會，我們進入討論事項第四十一案全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案。本案經本次會議決議：協商後提出本次會議處理。","報告院會，本案現已完成協商，請宣讀協商結論。","立法院黨團協商結論","時間：113年7月5日（星期五）下午5時31分","113年7月15日（星期一）下午3時10分","地點：議場三樓會議室、紅樓302會議室","協商主題：","一、社會福利及衛生環境委員會報告併案審查委員王育敏等19人、委員蘇清泉等28人及國民黨黨團分別擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。","二、逕付二讀：委員謝衣鳯等21人、委員楊瓊瓔等26人分別擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」等2案。","協商結論：","一、第六十二條，維持現行條文，並主決議如附件。","二、審查會保留3項附帶決議，不予處理。","三、新增附帶決議4項，通過如附件。","協商主持人：韓國瑜　　　江啟臣","協商代表：羅智強　　　張嘉郡　　　柯建銘　　　吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔　　　莊瑞雄　　　王育敏　　　傅崐萁","王正旭　　　洪孟楷　　　許宇甄　　　廖偉翔","陳　瑩　　　黃國昌　　　林思銘　　　黃珊珊(代)","林月琴　　　邱鎮軍　　　鄭正鈐　　　牛煦庭","吳春城(代)　陳昭姿　　　蘇清泉　　　劉建國","張智倫　　　徐欣瑩　　　徐巧芯　　　盧縣一","陳菁徽　　　羅廷瑋　　　陳亭妃　　　蘇巧慧","主決議","為改善醫療環境，維護醫事人員專業權益，衛生福利部應進行健保改革具體措施，於114年6月30日前達到平均點值一點0.95元，以維護全國醫事人員權益。","提案人：廖偉翔　　陳　瑩　　林月琴　　蘇巧慧　　陳亭妃　　王正旭　　傅崐萁　　黃國昌　　牛煦庭　　洪孟楷　　楊瓊瓔　　許宇甄　　陳菁徽　　陳昭姿　　林思銘　　林憶君　　王育敏　　陳玉珍　　吳春城　　林國成　　蘇清泉　　柯建銘　　盧縣一　　張智倫　　徐巧芯　　吳思瑤　　黃健豪　　羅廷瑋　　莊瑞雄　　","附帶決議","有鑑於我國社會發展和人口結構的快速變遷，導致醫療需求的大幅增加，使得現行的醫療體系和健保給付制度面臨許多挑戰和壓力。為確保國人享有高品質的醫療服務，同時落實賴清德總統選舉時之宣示，確有必要召開一次全國擴大會議，研討並推動醫療體系優化與健保給付制度的改革。為提升醫療服務質量、改革健保給付制度、提升醫療服務水平及給予國人可長可久的醫療品質。爰要求行政院應召開跨部會醫療改革會議，提出具體改善方案及相對應之期程，以回應國人的期盼，並落實本次修法的意旨。","提案人：中國國民黨立法院黨團","傅崐萁　　羅廷瑋　　蘇清泉　　洪孟楷　　陳昭姿　　黃健豪　　林憶君　　林思銘　　廖偉翔　　林國成　　陳菁徽　　許宇甄　　王育敏　　","附帶決議","按《全民健康保險法》第51條第4款規定，指示藥品不屬於健保給付範圍。惟健保開辦初期，考量醫師醫療與民眾就醫習慣，讓公勞保時代給付之指示藥品暫時繼續給付，但要求保險人應逐步檢討，並縮小該類品項之支付範圍，但迄今健保署仍在給付800多項指示藥品。為健全健保財政體質，爰要求衛福部針對指示藥退出健保給付擬訂時程表，三個月內提交該報告至立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會審議。","提案人：台灣民眾黨立法院黨團","黃珊珊　　陳昭姿　　林憶君　　林國成　　","黃健豪　　","附帶決議","有鑒於健保給付點數於扣除醫療機構營運成本、各類行政費用及設備費用後，應用於醫事人員待遇提升，而2015年起健保署曾為鼓勵醫院重視護理照護，提高住院病人醫療照護品質，推動護病比與健保支付連動之機制，立意良善，但成效仍相當有限。故為確保醫療機構將一定比率之收入盈餘用於提升醫事人員之薪酬待遇，避免部分醫療機構轉作他用而有悖於本次修法初衷，爰要求衛生福利部應另訂或修訂相關法規，規範健保點值保障之範疇應優先用於提升醫事人員之薪酬待遇，以落實本次修法之意旨。","提案人：台灣民眾黨立法院黨團","黃珊珊　　陳昭姿　　林憶君　　林國成　　","黃健豪　　","附帶決議","有鑑於90年代行政院衛生署為解決藥費支出過高之問題，修改全民健康保險法，制定藥價基準制度，要求醫療機構向藥商採購藥品時，於藥價基準內與藥廠進行議價，並將藥價殺低，藥價差額歸醫院享有方式，卻衍生藥商惡性競爭，且醫療機構變相依賴「藥價差」，成為另一個藥價困境，並可能間接造成部分醫療機構以利潤為本進行開藥，導致不必要之用藥不斷增加。根據醫藥界之估算，我國藥價差每年已達約新台幣七百億元之譜，此肇因於健保目前利益分配不符合公平原則所致，爰要求衛生福利部應借鑒日本之做法，一年內制定藥價調整機制並與醫藥界溝通，逐步達成合理藥價。","提案人：台灣民眾黨立法院黨團","黃珊珊　　陳昭姿　　林國成","黃健豪"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137115","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137115_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條、第十四條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案─協商後處理─","agenda_id":"1137115_00007"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.64221875,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.27721875,"end":28.887218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.190968750000003,"end":37.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.94909375,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.79346875,"end":76.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.52096875000001,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.55346875000001,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.48784375000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.82784375000001,"end":128.63534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.926,"end":19.242,"text":"主席各位同仁在探討NCC委員的產生包括行政部門的任命權以及立法院行使同意權我們不得不回到大法官解釋第613號的規範其中有一段我想分享給大家"},{"start":20.063,"end":37.126,"text":"基於權力分立原則行使立法權之立法院對行政院有關通傳會委員之人事決定權故非不能施以一定限制以為制衡為制衡仍有其界限除不能抵觸憲法明白規定外亦不能將人事決定權予以實質剝奪或進行取代之"},{"start":38.027,"end":60.419,"text":"就是這個613號的釋字案我們在委員會在朝野協商那透過充分的論述、討論、對話終於阻絕了國民黨原始要以政黨比例來提名委員的任命乃至於剛剛民眾黨團的公式模式沒有在這次修法入法我們予以肯定我們擋下了違憲的條文"},{"start":61.88,"end":76.471,"text":"但是呢,剛剛所通過的國民黨的修正動議第一項規定通常會的委員他的連任限制以及刪除第五項有關嚴任的規定事實上都對於NCC的職權行使造成焊隔"},{"start":77.572,"end":99.858,"text":"NCC守重於通訊傳播產業監理的經驗傳承：實在不一定定在任的限制：可以擔任NCC委員的：都是長期在相關領域：有相當長才：有業界：有學術的基底：但是因此來限制了他們的嚴任：這是非常不智：也相當可惜"},{"start":100.638,"end":127.929,"text":"至於過度的條款：絕非在野黨所解釋的萬年條款：是為了基於穩定NCC的日常運作：來重視台灣的通訊的民生：所以說：這一次的修法非常遺憾：但是未來：希望在野黨如他們所說的：不再阻絕NCC的人事同意權：希望能夠履行我們立法委員應付的職責：讓NCC的委員能夠完成投票："}]}},{"id":"154796","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154796","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7fe1e4aab929ed874b49a0c6dcc45fc3aad23f9b49b70f1d52f368618fe0bf2635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"16:19:37 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各位董事 沒對一個國家的政府沒要照顧農民沒對一個政黨沒要照顧農民但是公牛和某個政策 咱們真的現實是在照顧人民半世紀進程 因為台灣人口多 咱中農生產不足所以政府呢 有這個公牛某個的制度"},{"start":39.429,"end":44.872,"text":"但是經過這半世紀的演變,第一,國際農業目標,我們很多牛是可以進口第二,我們社會因此的習慣改變,我們台灣吃米吃得少,因此,這個供牛補給制度,變成補充照顧農民的生活"},{"start":58.76,"end":76.357,"text":"但正在想,台灣的農民雖然中美是第一大作物但正在想,我們農民的得所不是只有中美現在是中農當中,三成才符合到供牛收工的資格七成的中農是沒有受到這個政策的保護但這個政策的結構,執行這幾年來"},{"start":79.039,"end":101.786,"text":"請審議員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人�"},{"start":107.648,"end":115.491,"text":"在13年前,我們在那裡一群頭介紹條件三項,其他的補貼條件兩項,忽然間,條件五項的結果,加過去三項跟兩項的区間的差別很大。因此,大多數,很多不是紐收工的工人,而是來專注擴大面積,作為先第二年的介紹的方法。"},{"start":128.596,"end":154.736,"text":"是在向公牛介紹水田收工提款﹚但像剛才說的﹚歸了各種人工的全部都增加﹚農民在中性的福祉並沒有改善﹚是在向這幾年來政府雖然沒有大幅提升公牛收工的介紹﹚但是透過其他種種的促進﹚包括說對地的綠色環境補助﹚這樣的一個制度也鼓勵農民實施轉作的制度﹚"},{"start":155.656,"end":169.441,"text":"實際上,農民、豬農也沒辦法全部交到公牛,我們有界外收工,有福德收工,有漁農收工,所以實際上這三個小的豬農,也不是所有的政策都可以在公牛介紹的步驟。所以我們來看,這憲書是猜出一群人有挑戰及誤會的情形,"},{"start":173.903,"end":193.087,"text":"是在向中農、地域、來地、看起來、歡喜、介紹提款但是在影響到我們其他10年作物的介紹包括我們屏東省紅島的,現在大家都來省下這時候影響到7年介紹的普通對農民真的不好,第二,我們在吃飽多藥,我們未來40多年專來對農民是更加好的,我們予以農務部來照顧中農,照顧全體農民"}]}},{"id":"154785","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154785","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa739ff383fc2190000b49a0c6dcc45fc3a5a606d8fd36218ffdb33f131730d363f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"15:27:10 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央苗每盤從28塊漲到40塊 漲幅43%我們的物價指數上漲15%以上 農藥肥料上漲將近25%"},{"start":88.254,"end":108.202,"text":"本系列說農民耕作的成本不斷地在增加那麼因此國內的工資也不斷地在調整所以我們堅定認為必須要全面照顧農民我在這邊懇求所有我們的"},{"start":109.603,"end":131.043,"text":"藍綠白的委員待會我們希望看到一致的同意綠燈讓我們的公羊收購13年來我們給他調整五塊全面的照顧農民農業部提出針對農民有利的方案我們非常的樂見而且公開來討論"},{"start":133.342,"end":160.977,"text":"各位委員我們心想以農立國的台灣有什麼理由不照顧我們的農民對不對所以我要拜託我們所有藍綠白的委員待會我們要還給農民的一個公道我更要告訴農業部針對農民有利的方案請你也要一定一定的精進方案出來比如說"},{"start":161.957,"end":172.32,"text":"你的轉做方案我們的腦農要更改要轉做不是那麼容易你要怎麼樣來協助我們的腦農這應該是我們的農業部應該要提出尤其我們農業的人力不足農業部你應該要提出所以最基本的我們的公糧收購價格"},{"start":187.083,"end":188.025,"text":"13年沒有調漲拜託大家全力同意調漲五塊還農民公道謝謝"}]}},{"id":"154784","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154784","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7ae2ab9fb1c8e9f73b49a0c6dcc45fc3a5a606d8fd36218ffed1ecc791caf098c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"15:23:39 - 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預計所需的收購經費是194.6億元194.6億元比現行的收購預算81.6億元足足要增加113億元"},{"start":145.833,"end":167.633,"text":"臺灣的農業應該照顧但是不是只有照顧這三成的稻農臺灣有很多包括花卉、雜糧、果樹其他的農產業都需要政府給予大力的輔導所以我們應該要支持農業部所提出來的"},{"start":168.454,"end":190.249,"text":"一極二轉3加3我們讓更多的農民能夠去種植優良的稻米讓農民的稻米產銷來進行集團的產作甚至轉做各些旱作的雜糧甚至我們第三個3加3我們就是提高水稻收入保險優質加強的項目讓"},{"start":193.331,"end":199.661,"text":"整個台灣的農產業都能夠全幅提升：懇請大家支持公糧價"}]}},{"id":"154783","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154783","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7129b8d774504bb1fb49a0c6dcc45fc3a5a606d8fd36218ffae3ce1dee761090e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"15:20:11 - 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用血淚這麼多的悲劇"},{"start":36.121,"end":61.611,"text":"我們後山的人民一起走過在今天立法院各政黨共同連署讓花東快速道路能夠正式來做成主決議並通過這次的大地震0403光是花蓮地區6次到8次的崩山蘇花公路"},{"start":62.961,"end":65.022,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具"},{"start":88.078,"end":112.23,"text":"這都是來自於全國跟全世界的好朋友這條安全回家路的新建是給所有中華民國國民共同來使用我想今天要特別的感謝大家能夠讓安全的路順利的來達成從台北到宜蘭通過國道5號接著銜接蘇花改再加上蘇花安"},{"start":113.123,"end":139.522,"text":"在銜接花東快從台北到台東市有一條完整的安全回家的路再一次謝謝立法院各政黨大家同心協力為台灣人民一起找出路讓大家都能夠平安謝謝各位 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Kacaw　　　洪孟楷　　林思銘　　柯建銘　　吳思瑤　　莊瑞雄　　黃國昌　　吳春城　　林國成　　黃珊珊　　林憶君"]],"agenda":{"page_end":101,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","傅崐萁","林憶君"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137115","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137115_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"四零三震災重建條例草案─不予審議─","agenda_id":"1137115_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.57221875,"end":23.875343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.02721875,"end":26.879093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.21659375,"end":36.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.409093750000004,"end":58.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.806593750000005,"end":64.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.57784375,"end":70.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.33221875000001,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.27846875,"end":91.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.25284375000001,"end":99.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.47096875000001,"end":101.53409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.68596875,"end":102.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.98534375000001,"end":109.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.20784375000001,"end":133.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.48659375,"end":136.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.14034375,"end":137.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.13159375,"end":140.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.93721875,"end":142.60784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":20.208,"end":36.62,"text":"各位大家好零四零三花蓮大地震後觀光客都進不來國旅失衡加上道路中斷對花東的交通不方便一大堆問題造成花蓮的觀光一落千丈"},{"start":37.461,"end":57.179,"text":"然後現在國人照花蓮住宿不分平日都有提供補助然後就是要開始透過花蓮用以最以以傲的觀光業來振興經濟然後蘇花鹿廊也因為地震就開始土石流然後也讓大家居民都不敢回來然後這一次的0403的大地震"},{"start":58.94,"end":59.6,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":83.53,"end":84.371,"text":"本院委員何欣純等21人擬具"},{"start":100.225,"end":123.132,"text":"我們三黨都有做成協議就是要希望能夠快點搶救到我們花蓮能夠重建我們花蓮的光光所以現在今天是真的是讓我們花蓮人真的感受到在那麼多年那麼多次的努力下我們終於有一絲絲的曙光可以來花蓮把花蓮好好的重建"},{"start":123.772,"end":142.085,"text":"所以希望還有一點希望能夠趕快把捐款還有相關的預算下放真正落實在我們花蓮這次的災後重建謝謝好 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非山地鄉的鄉鎮市山源的人口：只要達1500個人以上：應該要保障一席山源鄉的鎮市民代表席次："},{"start":134.068,"end":161.875,"text":"經過本席溝通並且統整各方的意見之後﹐最終審查的結果﹐就按照昭偉、高津、樹梅等21個人提案通過﹐在這裡我要特別感謝各位內政委員會的支持﹐也要謝謝我們辛苦的議事人員﹐希望待會三讀通過的時候﹐我們的族人能夠聽到這個好消息﹐謝謝"},{"start":166.243,"end":174.166,"text":"謝謝高經委員本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商令委員如下"}]}},{"id":"154774","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154774","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa7a3ae0041472b7635b49a0c6dcc45fc3a26e6770bb8ac50868d27e5ce63abe3e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:45:54 - 09:51:05","影片長度":"00:05:11","會議時間":"2024-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、台灣民眾黨黨團及委員陳亭妃等16人分別擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；本院委員何欣純等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員許宇甄等21人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇巧慧等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」，請審議案等51案。\n二、7月12日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月16日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-16","start_time":"2024-07-16T09:45:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-16T09:51:05+08:00","duration":311,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第22次會議","id":"院會-11-1-22","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":241,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時45分）謝謝主席，各位院會同仁，大家好。有關於全民健康保險法第六十二條條文的修正草案，我作為衛環委員會的召委，已經在委員會裡面排了2次的審議及2次的協商，韓院長其實也主持了2次院會級的協商。","關於這個條文，我想主要的目的就是希望可以保障點值，讓我們所有醫療院所的運作、營運都可以是正常的運作，而不是因為我們健保總額的限制，然後被七折八扣，影響到醫療品質。所以這一個事情，在選前的時候，包括當時的總統候選人侯友宜總統候選人，還有當時的賴清德總統候選人，都允諾希望可以調高到健保點值1點1元的目標。","今天國民黨黨團還有蘇清泉委員，包括我本人，所提出來的是不同的版本，有1點1元，也有1點0.95元，所有的目的就是希望來支持我們的醫療體系，不要讓我們的醫護人員繼續的血汗。我想最近醫療現場急診塞爆的情況，大家都看得非常清楚，而我們常常說，我們的健保是世界的驕傲，但是我們健保是世界的驕傲不應該是建立在血汗的醫護上面。","因此這一次的修法，其實要達到非常重要的三個目的，第一個就是保障點值，保障點值是多少，大家可以來討論，昨天最新的朝野協商版本是1點0.95，希望可以有共識，大家往這個目標來邁進。第二，事實上，他希望可以提高的就是我們健保總額的成長率，因為我們的健保總額如果沒有適度地成長，當然餅就這麼大，然後醫療院所，如果它的個案量多的時候，它的點值就會自動下降，在疫情期間看得非常地明顯，尤其最近新冠疫情跟流感再起，我們都看到健保點值已經下降到零點八幾了，根本沒有保9。第三個，我們希望透過這樣子的立法跟修法，可以為醫事人員加薪，我想醫護人員在第一線真的非常地辛苦，在疫情期間，我們都看到他們多麼堅守第一線的崗位，為大家打拼。然而，他們所受到的待遇跟他們的付出，其實沒有得到一個正常的比例，主要就是我們現在健保點值過低，所以導致醫療院所也沒有更多的錢可以去幫醫事人員加薪。因此，這次保障健保點值如果通過的話，那所有的醫療院所也已經承諾，就是要優先幫我們的醫事人員加薪。","我想賴總統當選之後，他說要打造健康臺灣，但我要講的是，健康臺灣不能是一句口號，健康臺灣，你就要去投資我們所有的這一些醫療人員，他薪資的提升跟設備的提升。我們國家的財政每年超徵稅額超過3,000億，所以我們是有餘裕來優先挹注在全民健保上的，因為全民健保是照顧每一個國民的健康。因此這一次的修法，我們希望朝野立委大家都來支持，我們一起來挺醫護，我們有醫護人員願意在第一線長期的奉獻，我們才有永續的健保。所以這一次的修法，到目前為止民進黨黨團還沒有正式的簽，昨天其實已經有一個主決議了，這個部分我們也希望民進黨黨團在最後可以簽下這個主決議，我們一起支持保障健保點值，這一次保障健保點值1點0.95可以通過，我們一起挺醫護、挺健保，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","本案經審查會決議，須交由黨團協商。另外，委員謝衣鳯等、委員楊瓊瓔等分別提案，經第1會期第12次會議決定，逕付二讀，並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商。"],["委員謝衣鳯等提案：","案由：本院委員謝衣鳯、羅廷瑋、邱鎮軍、林沛祥等21人，認為現行健保總額預算制度為「上限制總額」，在此上限天花板之下，只要醫療院所服務量超出預期就浮動點值，不但對醫事服務提供者不公平，也間接影響了民眾的就醫權益。爰擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」，明定健保平均點值最少不得低於0.95，但因而超出醫療給付費用總額之部分，由中央政府負擔之。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：謝衣鳯　　羅廷瑋　　邱鎮軍　　林沛祥　　","連署人：黃　仁　　鄭正鈐　　洪孟楷　　王育敏　　謝龍介　　張智倫　　羅智強　　林德福　　楊瓊瓔　　陳雪生　　徐巧芯　　黃健豪　　丁學忠　　陳菁徽　　黃建賓　　涂權吉　　葉元之　　"],["委員楊瓊瓔等提案：","案由：本院委員楊瓊瓔、顏寬恒、陳菁徽、賴士葆、葉元之、鄭正鈐、許宇甄、邱鎮軍等26人，有鑑於全民健康保險醫療給付採總額給付制，醫療給付點值因機構服務量提高而降低，近年由於新冠疫情爆發加上整體醫療需求增加，然而健保總額制度使健保費用上漲壓力由醫療機構負擔，使醫療機構經營困難，加上醫療機構為求降低經營成本，致使醫護人員低薪並產生權益受損。為穩健我國醫療體系之永續發展，爰擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」，將醫療支付保有固定點值為一點1元。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：楊瓊瓔　　顏寬恒　　陳菁徽　　賴士葆　　葉元之　　鄭正鈐　　許宇甄　　邱鎮軍　　","連署人：蘇清泉　　陳超明　　涂權吉　　王育敏　　林德福　　陳永康　　林倩綺　　萬美玲　　呂玉玲　　林沛祥　　謝龍介　　傅崐萁　　陳雪生　　羅明才　　黃建賓　　張嘉郡　　黃　仁　　牛煦庭　　"],["主席：報告院會，本案因尚待協商，作以下決議：協商後提出本次會議處理。","進行討論事項第四十二案。","四十二、(一)本院司法及法制委員會報告併案審查委員黃健豪等20人、委員徐巧芯等18人分別擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」、委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第七十七條及第二百七十二條之一條文修正草案」、委員王育敏等20人、委員楊瓊瓔等20人分別擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」、委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條及第二百八十六條之一條文修正草案」、國民黨黨團、委員柯志恩等19人、委員徐欣瑩等18人及委員陳超明等22人分別擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」案。（本案經提本院第11屆第1會期第5、6、6、7、7、7、7、7、8、8次會議報告決定：交司法及法制委員會審查。茲接報告，爰於本次會議提出討論。）","(二)本院委員賴士葆等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(三)本院委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(四)本院委員盧縣一等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。（以上三案經提本院第11屆第1會期第11次會議報告決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。爰於本次會議提出討論。）","(五)本院委員許宇甄等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。（本案經提本院第11屆第1會期第12次會議決定：自司法及法制委員會抽出逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。爰於本次會議提出討論。）","(六)本院委員魯明哲等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」，請審議案。（本案經提本院第11屆第1會期第13次會議報告決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。爰於本次會議提出討論。）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-22","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":258,"meetingDate":["2024-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1137113","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137113_00005","1137113_00006","1137113_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第22次會議紀錄","content":"刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案─協商後處理─","agenda_id":"1137113_00010"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.29221875,"end":10.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.645343750000002,"end":15.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.83846875,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.17034375,"end":73.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.16721875,"end":83.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.60846875,"end":85.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.22846875,"end":146.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.16409375,"end":172.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.21909375,"end":180.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.09971875000002,"end":243.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.12784375,"end":249.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.62909375,"end":283.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.10471875,"end":302.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.05096875000004,"end":305.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.08409375,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.94846875,"end":311.96534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.815,"end":22.965,"text":"謝謝主席各位院會同仁打好有關於全民健康保健法第26條條文的修正草案那我作為衛環委員會的召委已經在委員會裡面排了兩次的審議然後兩次的協商那韓院長其實也主持了"},{"start":23.845,"end":48.855,"text":"兩次的院會級的協商那這個條文呢我想主要它的目的就是希望可以保障典值讓我們所有醫療院所它的運作、它的營運都可以是正常的運作而不是因為我們健保總額的限制然後被七折八扣影響到醫療品質"},{"start":51.127,"end":68.511,"text":"所以這個事情在選前的時候包括當時的總統候選人侯友宇總統候選人還有當時是總統候選人的賴清德總統候選人都允諾希望可以調高到"},{"start":69.131,"end":83.528,"text":"建保點值1.1元的目標那今天國民黨黨團還有蘇津全委員還有包括我本人所提出來的是不同的版本有1.1元也有1.1元"},{"start":85.66,"end":97.956,"text":"0.95元那所有的目的就是希望來支持我們的醫療體系我們的醫護人員不要讓他們再繼續的血汗我想最近醫療現場急診"},{"start":99.998,"end":105.161,"text":"王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":117.928,"end":132.536,"text":"這次的修法其實要達到三個目的非常的重要第一個就是保障點值那保障點值是多少大家可以來討論那昨天最新的朝野寫商的版本"},{"start":135.637,"end":159.969,"text":"1.0.95那希望這個可以有共識大家往這個目標來邁進第二事實上他希望可以提高的就是我們健保總額的成長率因為我們的健保總額如果沒有適度的成長那當然餅就這麼大然後醫療院所如果他的個案量多的時候他的點值就會自動下降在疫情期間"},{"start":160.469,"end":162.132,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":174.451,"end":195.117,"text":"我們希望透過這樣子的一個立法跟修法可以為醫事人員加薪我想醫護人員在第一線真的非常的辛苦在疫情期間我們都看到他們多麼堅守第一線的崗位為大家打拚然而他們所受到的待遇其實"},{"start":195.657,"end":199.278,"text":"審議案：本院委員何欣純等21人擬具 «詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等21人擬具"},{"start":224.408,"end":243.323,"text":"這個賴總統他當選之後他說他要打造健康台灣但我要講的是健康台灣不能是一句口號健康台灣你就要去投資我們所有的這一些醫療人員他的薪資的提升跟設備的提升"},{"start":244.184,"end":261.904,"text":"我們國家的財政每年超徵稅額超過3000億所以我們是有餘裕來優先挹注在全民健保上的因為全民健保是照顧每一個國民的健康因此這一次的修法我們希望"},{"start":262.244,"end":266.046,"text":"本院委員王美惠等18人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案：本院委員王美惠等18人擬具"},{"start":286.135,"end":286.635,"text":"本案經審查會決議需交由黨團協商"}]}},{"id":"154773","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154773","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa70de3e8b298dad2fdb49a0c6dcc45fc3a26e6770bb8ac5086ba941ceeb2c04d815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:38:27 - 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內向院會提出調查報告追究相關失職人員的責任請大家支持"},{"start":201.774,"end":204.601,"text":"謝謝蘇委員現在進行大體討論"}]}},{"id":"154771","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154771","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/db3749a3c7351fa786e6610498b73decb49a0c6dcc45fc3a26e6770bb8ac5086df376f3bcf18f1735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:25:00 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