{"total":{"value":28,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-11-05"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"16230","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16230","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0f5bf31e53d7c13d0bcf3abe3f08651b6083084566cc2bdb4888b0cb6d87c7e465ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-05T18:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院黨團協商（事由：議案協商）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-05","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-05T17:40:38+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T19:22:00+08:00","duration":6082,"影片長度":"01:41:22","委員發言時間":"17:40:38 - 19:22:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":361.96596875,"end":362.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1331.2490937500002,"end":1334.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1332.5315937500002,"end":1332.7003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1332.7003437500002,"end":1332.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1332.8015937500002,"end":1333.0884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1335.97409375,"end":1336.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1337.2903437500001,"end":1339.4503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1339.9734687500002,"end":1340.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1341.4078437500002,"end":1342.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1342.5215937500002,"end":1342.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1343.0953437500002,"end":1343.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1345.0190937500001,"end":1347.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1347.8709687500002,"end":1361.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1361.2528437500002,"end":1361.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1362.3834687500002,"end":1364.5940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1364.8978437500002,"end":1366.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1366.51784375,"end":1369.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1371.7490937500002,"end":1387.4090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1387.57784375,"end":1390.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1391.3072187500002,"end":1397.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1398.3103437500001,"end":1427.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1427.6390937500003,"end":1431.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1431.2165937500001,"end":1433.5115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1434.00096875,"end":1439.6878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1440.04221875,"end":1445.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1446.1678437500002,"end":1446.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1446.67409375,"end":1449.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1449.20534375,"end":1454.3353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1454.6390937500003,"end":1459.1109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1459.3809687500002,"end":1460.7815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1461.1865937500002,"end":1464.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1464.4772187500002,"end":1465.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1465.5403437500001,"end":1468.6790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1468.7803437500002,"end":1470.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1471.2947187500001,"end":1472.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1472.67846875,"end":1477.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1477.9772187500002,"end":1492.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1492.4559687500002,"end":1496.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1496.4047187500003,"end":1497.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1497.9403437500002,"end":1503.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1503.2897187500002,"end":1504.9265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1505.1290937500003,"end":1518.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1518.81471875,"end":1528.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1528.4334687500002,"end":1531.2347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1533.2428437500002,"end":1534.3734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1534.3397187500002,"end":1535.7572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1536.49971875,"end":1537.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1539.2503437500002,"end":1626.0215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1626.2747187500001,"end":1630.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1631.8097187500002,"end":1632.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1632.28221875,"end":1632.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1632.9403437500002,"end":1633.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1633.8515937500001,"end":1633.8853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1633.8853437500002,"end":1633.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1635.6909687500001,"end":1640.5003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1640.87159375,"end":1642.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1643.3353437500002,"end":1643.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1644.6347187500003,"end":1646.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1647.73971875,"end":1648.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1649.4778437500001,"end":1650.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1651.9922187500001,"end":1653.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1653.8315937500001,"end":1654.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1655.5190937500001,"end":1656.1097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1656.4134687500002,"end":1657.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1658.70846875,"end":1660.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1661.4928437500002,"end":1663.4334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1664.6990937500002,"end":1665.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1665.9984687500003,"end":1666.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1667.3822187500002,"end":1668.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1669.13721875,"end":1669.6265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1671.11159375,"end":1672.5965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1673.5753437500002,"end":1675.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1676.1234687500003,"end":1677.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1677.97971875,"end":1678.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1679.3634687500003,"end":1680.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1681.1353437500002,"end":1681.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1682.1478437500002,"end":1683.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1684.3753437500002,"end":1685.3709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1686.14721875,"end":1687.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1688.96534375,"end":1690.4334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1691.0240937500002,"end":1692.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1693.74096875,"end":1695.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1696.0697187500002,"end":1697.6053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1698.8372187500001,"end":1700.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1701.1322187500002,"end":1701.7228437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1702.29659375,"end":1703.6634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1704.9628437500003,"end":1706.1778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1707.0553437500002,"end":1707.7134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1708.77659375,"end":1710.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1711.15596875,"end":1712.6747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1713.55221875,"end":1715.6278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1715.8472187500001,"end":1718.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1718.7159687500002,"end":1720.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1721.3990937500002,"end":1723.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1724.40284375,"end":1727.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1727.9972187500002,"end":1729.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1730.6128437500001,"end":1731.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1732.7222187500001,"end":1735.3378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1736.1815937500003,"end":1739.8097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1740.72096875,"end":1741.3284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1741.83471875,"end":1743.9947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1744.8215937500001,"end":1745.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1746.2728437500002,"end":1747.7072187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1748.6859687500003,"end":1749.7490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1750.82909375,"end":1751.9090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1752.8203437500001,"end":1755.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1757.1403437500003,"end":1759.3509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1760.39721875,"end":1761.0722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1762.0003437500002,"end":1762.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1763.5190937500001,"end":1764.2953437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1765.3922187500002,"end":1766.1347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1766.5397187500002,"end":1767.3497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1768.7165937500001,"end":1770.3197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1772.8003437500001,"end":1773.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1774.4878437500001,"end":1775.2640937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1775.5340937500002,"end":1776.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1777.4747187500002,"end":1778.2003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1779.24659375,"end":1780.0059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1781.05221875,"end":1782.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1783.8534687500003,"end":1784.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1785.2540937500003,"end":1786.5197187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1786.9922187500001,"end":1788.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1790.4009687500002,"end":1791.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1791.8184687500002,"end":1793.6409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1794.28221875,"end":1794.9234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1795.4465937500001,"end":1796.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1797.9947187500002,"end":1799.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1800.7284687500003,"end":1802.5340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1803.3103437500001,"end":1804.2047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1805.1665937500002,"end":1807.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1808.1703437500003,"end":1809.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1812.5240937500002,"end":1813.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1814.95409375,"end":1815.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1816.3884687500001,"end":1817.6034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1818.5822187500003,"end":1820.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1822.1597187500001,"end":1822.7840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1823.8978437500002,"end":1825.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1826.76659375,"end":1827.8128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1828.9772187500002,"end":1830.8165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1831.6434687500002,"end":1833.2128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1834.1072187500001,"end":1835.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1836.5034687500001,"end":1838.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1838.9503437500002,"end":1839.8109687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1840.6040937500002,"end":1841.4478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1842.37596875,"end":1844.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1845.0759687500001,"end":1847.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1848.3497187500002,"end":1849.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1850.3409687500002,"end":1853.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1854.2897187500002,"end":1856.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1857.3272187500002,"end":1858.3397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1858.69409375,"end":1862.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1862.3053437500002,"end":1863.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1864.3809687500002,"end":1865.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1866.0347187500001,"end":1867.9584687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1868.8528437500001,"end":1869.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1870.4897187500003,"end":1871.8565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1872.32909375,"end":1873.5103437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1874.16846875,"end":1874.8265937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1875.0290937500001,"end":1876.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1877.3072187500002,"end":1878.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1879.21409375,"end":1880.5472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1881.20534375,"end":1890.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1891.5665937500003,"end":1893.2540937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1893.70971875,"end":1895.7853437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1896.2915937500002,"end":1899.5484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1901.5228437500002,"end":1906.0115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1907.2940937500002,"end":1908.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1908.6947187500002,"end":1913.2003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1913.7065937500001,"end":1957.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1957.5309687500003,"end":1969.2928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1969.51221875,"end":1996.4447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1996.5965937500002,"end":2026.5665937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2026.7015937500003,"end":2033.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2034.0422187500003,"end":2037.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2043.6609687500002,"end":2079.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2079.18284375,"end":2152.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2153.43284375,"end":2156.6053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2156.9597187500003,"end":2157.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2158.30971875,"end":2161.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2162.17409375,"end":2164.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2164.84034375,"end":2177.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2178.0028437500005,"end":2206.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2205.7790937500004,"end":2210.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2211.76971875,"end":2216.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2217.1190937500005,"end":2222.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2223.22784375,"end":2224.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2224.5947187500005,"end":2228.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2229.55596875,"end":2230.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2231.59784375,"end":2240.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2241.31784375,"end":2250.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2250.6328437500006,"end":2254.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2258.26034375,"end":2262.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2262.6647187500002,"end":2266.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2267.2547187500004,"end":2272.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2272.72221875,"end":2273.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2274.32534375,"end":2274.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2274.81471875,"end":2276.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2277.22784375,"end":2282.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2282.59409375,"end":2284.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2288.26409375,"end":2289.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2289.69846875,"end":2289.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2289.7997187500005,"end":2289.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2289.88409375,"end":2289.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2290.5759687500004,"end":2291.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2292.22971875,"end":2295.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2295.8747187500003,"end":2301.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2301.32534375,"end":2304.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2304.6159687500003,"end":2305.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2305.5947187500005,"end":2306.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2306.75909375,"end":2311.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2312.2772187500004,"end":2312.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2312.91846875,"end":2314.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2314.5047187500004,"end":2319.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2319.7022187500006,"end":2322.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2323.0772187500006,"end":2323.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2323.70159375,"end":2327.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2328.22409375,"end":2329.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2330.2997187500005,"end":2333.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2333.9278437500006,"end":2338.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2338.4840937500003,"end":2340.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2341.0153437500003,"end":2342.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2343.3778437500005,"end":2350.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2350.7859687500004,"end":2352.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2352.64221875,"end":2353.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2354.2790937500004,"end":2362.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2363.12159375,"end":2365.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2365.9734687500004,"end":2373.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2373.31409375,"end":2375.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2375.87909375,"end":2378.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2378.7647187500006,"end":2381.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2381.5828437500004,"end":2383.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2384.02971875,"end":2385.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2386.0547187500006,"end":2399.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2399.9765937500006,"end":2400.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2401.1240937500006,"end":2410.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2410.84409375,"end":2412.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2414.23596875,"end":2417.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2419.21409375,"end":2420.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2420.5134687500004,"end":2420.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2420.66534375,"end":2427.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2427.7022187500006,"end":2438.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2438.82284375,"end":2441.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2442.01221875,"end":2446.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2446.9228437500005,"end":2459.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2461.11471875,"end":2463.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2463.9665937500004,"end":2464.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2465.8903437500003,"end":2466.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2466.6834687500004,"end":2466.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2467.32471875,"end":2471.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2472.31971875,"end":2478.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2479.0359687500004,"end":2488.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2488.9753437500003,"end":2523.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2523.4678437500006,"end":2524.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2525.40846875,"end":2532.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2532.2428437500002,"end":2552.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2552.9147187500002,"end":2582.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2583.03659375,"end":2583.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2584.06596875,"end":2603.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2603.89409375,"end":2606.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2606.5097187500005,"end":2625.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2626.54034375,"end":2627.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2627.62034375,"end":2627.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2628.34596875,"end":2636.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2637.5428437500004,"end":2666.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2666.68596875,"end":2690.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2691.27284375,"end":2696.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2696.5378437500003,"end":2700.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2701.02659375,"end":2703.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2703.3722187500007,"end":2718.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2719.2684687500005,"end":2732.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2732.12721875,"end":2740.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2742.20159375,"end":2752.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2752.79909375,"end":2754.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2754.8915937500005,"end":2765.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2765.7422187500006,"end":2766.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2766.90659375,"end":2772.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2772.7790937500004,"end":2773.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2773.6228437500004,"end":2776.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2776.5928437500006,"end":2779.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2780.10284375,"end":2786.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2787.22409375,"end":2791.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2791.6959687500002,"end":2796.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2797.39971875,"end":2801.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2802.15846875,"end":2802.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2803.55909375,"end":2807.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2807.8115937500006,"end":2815.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2816.02971875,"end":2822.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2822.6953437500006,"end":2826.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2826.8972187500003,"end":2828.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2829.2597187500005,"end":2832.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2832.66846875,"end":2838.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2837.12346875,"end":2838.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2838.4903437500006,"end":2847.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2847.60284375,"end":2850.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2850.6403437500003,"end":2852.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2853.3740937500006,"end":2855.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2856.0065937500003,"end":2868.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2868.6797187500006,"end":2876.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2876.61096875,"end":2882.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2882.55096875,"end":2887.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2888.5584687500004,"end":2893.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2894.5997187500006,"end":2903.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2904.1003437500003,"end":2912.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2912.9597187500003,"end":2922.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2913.2803437500006,"end":2914.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2923.06784375,"end":2925.7003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2926.1053437500004,"end":2930.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2930.4422187500004,"end":2932.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2933.12534375,"end":2933.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2933.14221875,"end":2943.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2945.3428437500006,"end":2945.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2948.85284375,"end":2949.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2949.03846875,"end":2951.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2952.4303437500002,"end":2966.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2966.45346875,"end":2991.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2991.2090937500006,"end":2998.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2998.76909375,"end":3004.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3004.55721875,"end":3008.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3009.2822187500005,"end":3031.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3031.7597187500005,"end":3047.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3047.52096875,"end":3082.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3082.8572187500004,"end":3088.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3089.10096875,"end":3098.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3099.41159375,"end":3144.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3144.83909375,"end":3145.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3146.47596875,"end":3187.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3188.19096875,"end":3195.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3195.7340937500003,"end":3196.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3196.13909375,"end":3197.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3198.2653437500003,"end":3199.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3199.86846875,"end":3217.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3217.58721875,"end":3219.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3220.23659375,"end":3239.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3239.3897187500006,"end":3271.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3271.6715937500003,"end":3278.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3279.9572187500007,"end":3296.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3297.0009687500005,"end":3299.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3299.2115937500002,"end":3304.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3304.5778437500003,"end":3306.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3306.83909375,"end":3311.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3311.8678437500002,"end":3317.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3317.82471875,"end":3334.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3335.2228437500007,"end":3354.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3355.0847187500003,"end":3362.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5037.99471875,"end":5040.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5041.50471875,"end":5049.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5049.689093749999,"end":5050.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5052.62534375,"end":5054.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5054.97096875,"end":5068.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5068.352843750001,"end":5078.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5079.43971875,"end":5088.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5089.4803437499995,"end":5110.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5111.97471875,"end":5112.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5112.37971875,"end":5113.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5112.39659375,"end":5113.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5122.960343750001,"end":5125.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5125.37346875,"end":5126.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5126.72346875,"end":5129.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5126.757218750001,"end":5127.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5129.25471875,"end":5150.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5151.15846875,"end":5154.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5155.124093750001,"end":5155.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5155.967843750001,"end":5156.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5156.08596875,"end":5157.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5158.161593750001,"end":5158.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5159.984093749999,"end":5160.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5162.667218750001,"end":5165.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5166.885968750001,"end":5182.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5182.1747187500005,"end":5182.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5182.630343750001,"end":5183.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5182.64721875,"end":5182.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5182.950968749999,"end":5183.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5183.82846875,"end":5190.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5190.510968750001,"end":5191.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5191.962218750001,"end":5192.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5195.100968750001,"end":5203.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5204.905343750001,"end":5207.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5207.03159375,"end":5241.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5242.36784375,"end":5245.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5245.92846875,"end":5250.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5250.7040937500005,"end":5253.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5254.46721875,"end":5261.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5262.364718750001,"end":5267.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5268.085343750001,"end":5271.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5271.932843750001,"end":5274.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5275.257218750001,"end":5279.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5279.54346875,"end":5285.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5285.753468750001,"end":5292.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5293.36409375,"end":5293.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5293.38096875,"end":5294.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5295.01784375,"end":5300.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5301.29534375,"end":5329.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5330.35409375,"end":5343.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5344.37721875,"end":5375.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5375.44409375,"end":5377.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5378.9540937500005,"end":5379.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5380.9959687499995,"end":5392.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5393.7197187500005,"end":5402.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5403.25409375,"end":5404.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5404.75596875,"end":5411.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5411.235968749999,"end":5420.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5420.1122187500005,"end":5420.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5420.567843750001,"end":5421.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5421.34409375,"end":5422.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5421.3778437500005,"end":5422.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5422.27221875,"end":5427.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5425.107218749999,"end":5426.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5427.06471875,"end":5427.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5427.554093750001,"end":5428.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5432.667218750001,"end":5437.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5437.18971875,"end":5446.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5444.3447187500005,"end":5444.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5444.41221875,"end":5444.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5446.909718750001,"end":5451.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5451.5165937500005,"end":5457.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5459.751593749999,"end":5465.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5460.038468750001,"end":5461.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5465.607218749999,"end":5467.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5465.64096875,"end":5467.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5467.3622187500005,"end":5467.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5467.5478437500005,"end":5468.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5468.290343750001,"end":5468.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5468.340968750001,"end":5468.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5468.35784375,"end":5468.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5468.374718749999,"end":5468.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5468.45909375,"end":5468.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5468.475968750001,"end":5468.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5468.54346875,"end":5468.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5468.897843750001,"end":5468.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5468.96534375,"end":5469.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5469.876593749999,"end":5474.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5474.12909375,"end":5475.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5475.884093750001,"end":5478.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5480.96346875,"end":5481.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5481.30096875,"end":5481.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5513.279093749999,"end":5514.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5516.755343750001,"end":5522.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5523.25221875,"end":5527.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5527.65659375,"end":5529.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5529.66471875,"end":5532.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5533.495343750001,"end":5536.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5956.247843749999,"end":5957.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5958.407843750001,"end":5958.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5959.79159375,"end":5961.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5961.5634687500005,"end":5982.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5983.0790937500005,"end":5984.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5985.559718750001,"end":6008.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6010.062218749999,"end":6018.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6019.69784375,"end":6020.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6021.2840937500005,"end":6034.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6035.661593750001,"end":6041.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6043.170968750001,"end":6043.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6043.69409375,"end":6043.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6045.21284375,"end":6045.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6045.280343750001,"end":6047.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6047.659718750001,"end":6048.030968749999}],"whisperx":[{"start":1331.254,"end":1332.435,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黃總召到了嗎褲總召到了"},{"start":1345.523,"end":1369.253,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部辛苦大家也特別感謝行政院列席所有的首長再一次介紹一下行政院的龔秘書長辛苦你哈謝謝歡迎行政院主席總署陳主席長歡迎您辛苦農業部陳部長辛苦歡迎您衛福部邱部長辛苦啊歡迎您原住民曾竺維辛苦歡迎你今天學到了一課下次走路要快一點"},{"start":1371.852,"end":1391.844,"text":"好 謝謝各位黨團幹部 謝謝大家我想今天特別要召集大家 剛剛時間也處理研會研會動議 我們到中央政府114年度總預算處理完畢之後 我們才散會所以要請各位黨團來發表大家寶貴的意見請問哪一個黨團先發言好 我們先請吳思堯幹事長先發言 然後請國民黨團請準備"},{"start":1398.799,"end":1422.892,"text":"謝謝院長﹖各黨團的夥伴大家辛苦了今天是我們針對總預算朝野協商的第四次那非常希望這一次能夠一舉突破過去的困境那民進黨團已經有提案嘛當然就是照程序希望在今天完成院長的詢答之後能夠依照往例就交付委員會審查"},{"start":1424.193,"end":1425.013,"text":"委員．議案協商．議案協商．議案協商"},{"start":1446.202,"end":1458.61,"text":"但我想一個基礎的原則還是我們在一個大家各退一步的方式跟前提之下如果要希望在野黨委員尋求的三大議案"},{"start":1459.502,"end":1487.963,"text":"的預算上的調整那勢必也希望大家能夠在一個依循法制的程序的補正上大家一起來提出解方那畢竟呢我想原住民族的禁法補償這一項是明年九月才會執行的預算那公糧收購跟健保點值健保點值當初的預估也是明年六月盡可能來達到這樣子的目標那公糧收購當然可以在"},{"start":1488.624,"end":1488.804,"text":"﹚立法院黨團協商："},{"start":1505.67,"end":1506.251,"text":"謝謝吳斯堯幹事長發言 請國民黨團請發言"},{"start":1533.434,"end":1559.928,"text":"請林思明 書記長歡迎謝謝院長我想我們還是很堅持就是說這一次的總預算如果要儘速的復違的話對於原民的這個補償條例這個法案三讀通過的法案相關預算的編列我們還是堅持我們非常堅持就是一定要這個依法來編列"},{"start":1561.409,"end":1561.449,"text":"主席"},{"start":1591.77,"end":1592.11,"text":"指揮部長"},{"start":1606.641,"end":1627.238,"text":"不是民進黨講的九十一億所以這二十億我們認為在整個總預算它還有一個調整的空間所以我們也是堅決要求要把公洋收購調整為五元這個案子要請行政院還是要把它編補在總預算裡面以上 謝謝好 謝謝林世民 書記長接下來請臺灣民眾黨團請發言市委院長"},{"start":1635.871,"end":1663.26,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團的立場非常的簡單也非常的清楚我先從最簡單的開始講當初有關於健保典值最後達成的是三個黨團的共識在那個過程當中衛福部的部長充分實質的參與行政部門當初參與立法部門大家都簽字"},{"start":1664.921,"end":1691.462,"text":"為了要去兌現對基層醫護的保障這就是政府該做的事情既然是政府該做的事情在預算的編列上自然而然要反應上去否則的話我們無法理解我們上個會期大家到底在忙什麼三個黨團都簽了字為服務部長實質參與"},{"start":1693.963,"end":1723.169,"text":"結果是廢紙一張嗎恐怕不應該是這個樣子公糧收購的部分農業部有他們自己的想法他們好好去努力我們尊重我們從來也沒有反對農業部你要透過什麼樣的措施只不過這幾年做下來實際上面有沒有達到那樣的效果我相信很多基層的農民心裡都有最直接的感受"},{"start":1724.434,"end":1751.411,"text":"而在公糧收購價格的這件事情上我想在整個立法歷程非常的清楚的反應當初台灣民眾黨黨團提案那我們也感謝中國國民黨黨團也支持最後院長在上面主持院會的時候請問在場委員有沒有異議沒有一個人有異議沒有一個人有異議"},{"start":1752.847,"end":1779.87,"text":"那既然是沒有一個人有異議的情況之下站在基層農民的保障上面我們當然會要求行政部門如實的編列預算禁法補償這件事情依法行政法律三讀修正通過每個公請就是九萬元"},{"start":1781.089,"end":1809.114,"text":"那你說透過基金的方式啊 對不起口誤 就是六萬元你說透過基金的方式就不能這樣做嘛我們不管 我相信之前在協商的時候在質詢的時候過去曾經做過的決議非常的清楚就請行政院就禁法補償的部分依法編列預算"},{"start":1812.577,"end":1841.129,"text":"只要行政部門做到了他們該做的事情臺灣民眾黨黨團對婦為審查沒有意見但我們今天為什麼會走到這一步就是行政部門你就是沒有依法編列預算沒有依法編列預算我們真的婦為審查了以後處於一個不可逆的狀態我只能刪了我也只能動了"},{"start":1842.386,"end":1867.593,"text":"我到真的審查預算的時候我可以挪用其他的科目嗎?也不行嘛因為這些事情其實我相信院長聽到應該都快要會背了大家各個不管在在說明上在立場上我們已經一而再再而三的表達非常謙卑的非常謙卑的希望我們的行政部門"},{"start":1868.885,"end":1885.718,"text":"能夠與原住民能夠與基層的農民與我們基層的醫護的保障能夠把它放在心裡面好好的編列預算只要編列預算完了我們當然就依法審查這是我們作為一個立法委員我們應該盡的職責這個是台灣民眾黨黨團我們今天"},{"start":1891.798,"end":1912.794,"text":"開了黨團的會議以後我們所達成共識的立場跟院長還有其他各位黨團的代表報告謝謝如果各黨團沒有補充我們想請列席的官員來蔡宇書記長請發言好謝謝主席那我補充發言那我想"},{"start":1914.307,"end":1932.264,"text":"總預算在院長主持協商今天是第四次那這幾次的協商基本上民進黨團我們都是希望至少也要進行就是預算法所要求的相對應的程序那這部分我相信在這個質詢的過程中"},{"start":1935.147,"end":1959.46,"text":"那我看到卓院長也多次表達他的善意他認為說這些預算縱使要用任何方式用基金用第二預備金或者用追加預算的方式可以來談但是他認為預算法91條的程序也是一個必要的一個程序所以這部分是卓院長他在每位委員質詢的時候他所強調的一個重點那這也是我們黨團"},{"start":1962.802,"end":1979.137,"text":"我們主張的立場就是這個程序要進行你要要求行政院編更多預算就是要徵詢行政院同意然後由他們去找這個彌補資金的一個來源這個我想這個程序要跑在前面那之後"},{"start":1979.957,"end":1993.824,"text":"站在每位民意代表都希望可以爭取更多資源給我們的鄉親大家都這樣希望但是行政院有他財政紀律的考量那基於財政紀律考量的前提他們當然有他們應該要"},{"start":1994.966,"end":2015.924,"text":"遵守的財政紀律所以我們黨團是認為說在這樣的前提之下我們會當然同意這樣不管是怎樣的一個方案那我們也希望總預算已經拖到了現在已經11月了我們該讓總預算附委審查接下來附委後在各委員會還是大家可以秉持專業去要求"},{"start":2017.905,"end":2018.305,"text":"謝謝蔡宇書記長 請國民黨團二人發言"},{"start":2044.037,"end":2044.258,"text":"主席"},{"start":2058.817,"end":2078.171,"text":"在針對一些我們很多委員關心的 比如說這個原民進法補償條例的部分在預算上面要做什麼樣的修正可是問題是不管是說用綜合發展基金 或者是用二倍金 或者是用追加預算"},{"start":2080.133,"end":2091.165,"text":"我必須說我們並沒有聽到院長有一個很明確的答覆所以呢事實上我想今天我們在座也有關心的這個原民的委員那他們並沒有在這次的質詢裡面聽到相關比較明確的答覆"},{"start":2100.354,"end":2106.659,"text":"另外就是大家也知道還有另外的公糧收購的問題以及健保點值的問題那更沒有在這一次的質詢裡面我們聽到有任何的要怎麼樣的具體的補正的措施但是我們說實在我們已經講了很多次"},{"start":2121.849,"end":2126.614,"text":"其實作為在野黨 絕對比執政黨更想省預算我雖然不好用所謂的磨刀霍霍 但是所有的在野黨的委員都希望能夠在預算上面我們能夠作為一個看緊納稅人的荷包 然後做強而有力的監督者的角色"},{"start":2145.171,"end":2159.703,"text":"所以在野黨非常想審預算但是我們在之前我們幾個比如包含法定的預算到底要不要編列如何編列說實在到目前為止"},{"start":2160.404,"end":2167.372,"text":"我們沒有聽到一個很明確具體的答覆那更不要說剛才如同剛才之前那麼在我們兩位書記長跟黃總召所講的在健保點值跟在那個公糧收購的部分"},{"start":2178.044,"end":2185.973,"text":"更沒有任何的具體答覆所以我們還是希望還是希望行政院能不能就針對大家關心的議題能夠有一些比較具體的怎麼樣預算來做補正跟修正那麼我們也希望在做這些補正跟修正之後能夠盡快的"},{"start":2197.085,"end":2198.528,"text":"讓總預算副委：讓我們的在野黨的各個委員：也來肩負起整個嚴審預算的職責以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":2211.866,"end":2239.974,"text":"我們立場已經說明了那其實我再度的跟院長報告就黨團協商的現場我就想說盡量避免不要成為好像大家要在進行政治的攻防我覺得立場清楚就好了啦各自對自己所做的政治決定向人民負責我覺得這是民主社會民主政治就是責任政治嘛那至於說就其他的部分因為剛剛"},{"start":2241.631,"end":2251.464,"text":"我尊重院長等一下指揮的選擇但就我們第二輪的發言的部分因為我是不是可以得到院長的同意讓第二輪發言的時間交給齊凱委員幫農民講幾句話"},{"start":2258.471,"end":2283.706,"text":"那還是我們就先提行政機關的好 謝謝我知道 謝謝啊 包參委總召提醒說個別有些列席的委員總委員嘉賓 張委員齊凱都很關心 高金委員都很關心但是我想先聽一下行政部門那秘書長 主席長 還有各部會首長這是最後的黃金十分鐘 請大家發言發言完我們就要休息一下 協商了請主席長 請發言"},{"start":2288.862,"end":2311.533,"text":"請廣秘書長行政院態度是這樣剛剛很謝謝蔡議員大致上把我們的態度也做了一些說明昨天在總預算報告的時候也特別提到他說基於立法行政平衡跟互相尊重期盼兩院共同"},{"start":2312.974,"end":2322.641,"text":"遵守憲法第70條的憲政原理的精神以及預算法91條等原則規定跟必要的程序"},{"start":2323.732,"end":2351.762,"text":"按照這樣的預算審查共同而且唯一的原則來共同尋找妥適的解方如果朝野的政黨有這樣的共識的話那114年度的進法補償的經費行政院可以考量用適當的方式來支應那這個適當的方式我想我們剛剛大家都提到了不管是用這個綜合基金然後我們再用預算去補這個基金或者用二倍金"},{"start":2352.702,"end":2354.844,"text":"或追加預算﹚立法與行政互相尊重﹚"},{"start":2378.797,"end":2384.283,"text":"公務預算181億,健保總額明年本來會增加531億,所以也超過了700多億這個部分就讓衛福部來努力,大家的期待,這個點子方向來走"},{"start":2400.051,"end":2400.371,"text":"陳主席"},{"start":2419.572,"end":2445.801,"text":"是 院長 那我們也是在基於立法行政平衡和互相尊重然後共同遵守憲法第70條的一個精神和預算法第91條的原則的原則下 那我們以來能夠來共同延長妥適的一個解方 那這適當的一個解方呢 就上次我也上次一再的談到就是說 第一個我用那個"},{"start":2447.048,"end":2447.528,"text":"首先感謝各黨團的委員這麼關心"},{"start":2473.17,"end":2487.586,"text":"醫療環境的改善站在我過去當任多年的醫事公會理事長不管是前國的或台北市還有就是也當了七八年的立委現在很多委員前輩們"},{"start":2489.273,"end":2517.127,"text":"執行的時候都拿我以前講的話出來 review 一下這樣子所以我覺得我們的心都是一樣的要把醫療環境改善醫療工作同仁的待遇他們的專業受到尊重人民的健康得到保障還有醫療援手可以順利的來經營這個我想我們的心都是一致的那我在這邊還是要跟各位報告我覺得行政院已經拿出最大的誠意"},{"start":2517.793,"end":2540.353,"text":"那在有史以來有幾個突破的點以前我們健保用很多其實是公務預算公務預算的事情他馬上弄到塞到健保這個時候在這一次全部幾乎清出來這是一個非常可能是二三十年來第一次的非常大的突破我覺得這次行政院真的很願意幫忙"},{"start":2542.491,"end":2551.882,"text":"這樣讓總部的空間就會多很多另外就是當然在健康台灣的領域裏面也補了很多很多比如說我們過去試癌的篩檢"},{"start":2553.135,"end":2581.014,"text":"還有成人的健檢我想大家都接受過以前可能400塊現在的預算是800可以到800塊所以很多的醫院醫療院所都願意來更加的積極來創造一個人民更大的健康還有一個更重要的總額的總額的協商那是很重要那總額的成長高推估率5.5這也是創有史以來最高的那也就是那等於是說這個部分可以多了大概500"},{"start":2583.123,"end":2600.188,"text":"三十一億這個跟公務預算又是另外一回事也是在總額裡面的成長所以感謝在國發會其實行政院也很幫忙那我們也可以用我們當時提出來是等於是最高的所以是有史以來最高所以大概有多五百多億那再加上那個"},{"start":2601.284,"end":2616.732,"text":"剛剛提的支出面當然有關行政院役助健保財務大概有336億其中有些是到安全基金我們先是講支出面公務預算大概提供181億然後加上總額的530億所以大概有712億的一個可以來用在支出面"},{"start":2626.601,"end":2635.829,"text":"那我也跟議界的朋友講就大家也很感謝各位委員的幫忙因為總合專制制度是一種"},{"start":2637.634,"end":2659.635,"text":"是一種不是說一就一二就二啦但是可以來協商總共有六區在協商所以每一個區有每一個區的制度我們只要給他資源夠然後他們再好好的節省因為畢竟人民我們健保是大家所滿意的就是不要讓人民負擔太大但是弱者可以得到照顧這個連醫者的情懷都能夠堅持齁"},{"start":2661.597,"end":2685.857,"text":"所以都能夠了解 所以他們很願意在這樣的基礎之下很努力都用在刀口上在行政院已經支持這麼多的情況之下把人民的健康做好 把點子也必須盡量在節省在醫療體系的改革之下 努力之下讓點子能夠提升到我們大家的一個共識"},{"start":2687.059,"end":2711.648,"text":"我想這樣的一個應該是可以激發各位的照顧各位的支持應該可以激發還有一個很重要就是我們有60億的深耕計畫這60億的深耕計畫也是非常特別這個是創造醫界的智慧來怎麼樣當工作模式怎麼樣在一個工作環境照顧護理人員或照顧"},{"start":2712.568,"end":2712.688,"text":"以上報告,謝謝"},{"start":2742.47,"end":2772.016,"text":"邱部長您這個施政報告講得非常好,重點是可不可以到0.95,可能大家想聽這個,因為我覺得你已經進了很大力,但有沒有把握到0.95?因為0.9幾的其實是管理的定義,我稍微這樣講,譬如說醫院如果你要,我就定0.95,但是在服務量的方面,可能他就會有一定的限制"},{"start":2773.691,"end":2801.127,"text":"我要訂零零就要訂零零一點,一點也沒問題啊所以總和這個制度就是這樣子有一個數據了,但是我覺得是不是資源夠到我們的工作同仁應該有的好的環境應該有的待遇,還有民眾的健康得到保障那另外我們也公布預算,另外有編那個癌癌癌癥心療基金這個也是很有史以來,讓癌癥真的需要的人也有"},{"start":2802.353,"end":2827.684,"text":"這些都是福果利民的事情那都是在各位委員真的是大家支持之下已經有創造最好的一個醫療環境所以我才說 上次我在協商我才說 院長各位委員就容許給我們一點時間我們把它創造到點子好所以點子這件事情能不能達到我們只能講盡力"},{"start":2829.435,"end":2855.385,"text":"只能講盡力啦,因為搞不好可以到達0.6、0.70.9、0.6、0.9、對不起,0.9、0.6、不一定是0.9最重要是資源夠不夠的問題,那要做有沒有意義的事情我身為一個台大醫學院的教授那麼多年,我教出來的學生就是讓他有資源去做專業的事情但是我們不要浪費一毛錢,但是不夠的時候當然也感謝大家"},{"start":2857.81,"end":2883.578,"text":"還有一個比較我們不忍心去提升民眾的保惠所以我當時比較早期就有覺得說我們先不要考慮提升民眾的保惠我們先我們自己行政院提出公務預算然後我們也給我們在總額裡面最大的空間我覺得只要大家管理好的話其實點子要多少那只是一個數目的處理而已但是我覺得這樣的資源"},{"start":2884.884,"end":2893.317,"text":"讓我們醫界拿著這樣充分的資源趕快去衝 趕快去為人民的健康努力我想這個是我們所期待的 謝謝"},{"start":2894.779,"end":2921.93,"text":"邱部長容我提醒你一下上次在這裡協商你是說給你一年的時間你一定會全力以赴那講得很讓人那時候感覺很真情真情流露所以你剛剛講時間我提醒你你講一年的時間你全力去衝我今天再跟你討論一下我會很負責任的願意跟EJ而且EJ也很跟我講說他們一定會全力以赴來配合這樣的資源"},{"start":2923.12,"end":2923.32,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":2948.851,"end":2963.197,"text":"好,謝謝曾主委,那接下來請農業部陳部長好,院長、各位委員,那有關公糧的議題,就是我們目前所替代的這個推的一級二轉參加方案,我就不提了我想從農業部的角度去思考這個問題"},{"start":2964.577,"end":2990.088,"text":"那因為公糧的這個稻米的這些收購它不是純粹百分之百都繳公糧它有兩個部分一個部分是繳公糧另外一個部分是由民間的民糧去收購的部分所以我們當初第一個在考慮的說如果今天公糧提高五塊的話那相對於一起做就一個一公頃的話多三萬塊"},{"start":2991.949,"end":3007.783,"text":"二期做的話將近兩萬兩千塊左右換句話說一年的話整個稻谷本身的農民的每公頃的價格的提升他的收益提升可以達到五萬兩千塊左右"},{"start":3009.484,"end":3025.923,"text":"這是政府支撐的可是它只支撐了百分之三十的部分那我剛才說的百分之七十都是民糧的收購的那民糧的收購以這樣子迅速的去拉到五塊錢這樣的一個強度的時候民糧是跟不上的"},{"start":3026.645,"end":3046.016,"text":"民糧跟不上的時候,原來的民糧的這些農民的棄作戶,他因為公糧的價格高的時候,他就轉向公糧過來了那換句話說,公糧本身都是依靠他的品牌,他的稻米的品質,去支撐他的一個收益"},{"start":3047.777,"end":3075.418,"text":"當他沒有這樣的一個企作的時候那相對的整個品牌或者是U紙米的那個數量就會降低這是我想我們第一點考量的第二個部分就是其實剛才我講歷次很多委員也都認同就是繳公糧的人他通常都會去沖他的產量然後不是那麼care他的品質那當他沖產量的時候整個栽培制度包括施用比較高的蛋肥"},{"start":3075.998,"end":3076.018,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":3099.5,"end":3123.575,"text":"中一些種植不重量的這個習慣那種植不重量的時候那這樣子我公糧未來收的這些產品我也可以瞬間釋放到市場去那市場也可以當品牌米我希望說民糧跟公糧的那個稻米的品質要一致性那這樣的話兩個水庫在互通的時候不但能夠確保我們的糧食安全"},{"start":3124.155,"end":3124.275,"text":"主席"},{"start":3146.556,"end":3172.324,"text":"重質不重量的一個重道的一個觀念的改變然後對品質的改變希望說是透過我們的產品的價值去提升它的收益而不是靠政府的直接的一個補貼這個是我想我們一直希望在引導的這樣的一個過程所以我們院長其實也指示的非常明確就是在我們現在目前的一級二轉三加三的基礎之下"},{"start":3173.044,"end":3198.794,"text":"我們在明年度一定要好好的去檢討整體的公糧的整個政策那公糧的政策絕對不是只有提高公糧價格這一件事情而已事實上他也考慮到整個公糧收購的數量因為我們現在有計劃輔導跟餘糧甚至於現在我們因為天然災害的話我們又開了一些災害股那另外還有就是不同的"},{"start":3199.969,"end":3201.191,"text":"委員長和在座委員說明一下"},{"start":3220.313,"end":3236.559,"text":"我們100年提高了3塊加2塊錢的烘乾費以後其實這幾年來我們推的到做試選餐等相關的因素我們現在的民糧的價格其實是遠比100年的價格高了大概將近每百台幣將近100塊100多塊一點相當於大概3塊錢每公斤相當於3塊錢"},{"start":3243.422,"end":3268.181,"text":"所以很多人認為就是說我們在推的這個極端產區是沒有效果的可是我們可以用實際的數據去跟委員說明其實比照一下我們的整個的稻穀的價格大概每一公斤大概提高了3塊錢那沒有錯這個3塊錢大概都是用民糧去撐的所以換句話說民糧的價格去支撐才是讓我們產業永續經營的最重要的目標"},{"start":3271.784,"end":3272.105,"text":"立法院黨委員"},{"start":3280.014,"end":3303.685,"text":"再一次的循環 再一次的循環那其實我們在最後一個我要跟各位委員說明的就是其實稻米的部分我剛才說的大概70%的是民糧在攪的特別在東部地區有非常好的有機米這些優質的米其實他們都不攪公糧的所以他們也擔心當我公糧一拉高了以後就回到我低點的論述"},{"start":3304.865,"end":3316.904,"text":"這些原來棄作的他就放棄了他原來的有機栽培他放棄了他原來的這些棄作他乾脆去繳公糧他的價格會比較好所以這是從農業部的角度去看"},{"start":3317.858,"end":3317.878,"text":"委員長"},{"start":3335.293,"end":3338.955,"text":"謝謝各位列席的關於的發言完畢我想我們先休息10分鐘我們來討論一下好 謝謝休息"},{"start":5038.015,"end":5050.162,"text":"好各位黨團幹部請坐我們先列一下我們暫時的一個協商結論請各位黨團幹部能夠請聽一下大家仔細聽一下謝謝我們決定兩點齁"},{"start":5055.712,"end":5077.627,"text":"時間113年4月5日下午量60地點紅樓302協商主題延長114年度中央政府總預算及中央政府前端預算基礎建設第五期特別預算相關事宜決定事情兩點一為維護國會尊嚴針對原住民進法補償公糧收購及健保點子等預算編列事宜於11月7日 以前"},{"start":5079.568,"end":5102.004,"text":"由行政院長邀請本院在野黨團及執政黨黨團會面表示處理上開預算解決方案及誠意二、各黨團同意有關一百一四年度中央政府總預算及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第五期特別預算案之各項提議均保留送院會依提案先後順序進行處理"},{"start":5103.645,"end":5108.189,"text":"並定於11月8日星期五列入院會議程與討論事項前處理"},{"start":5124.686,"end":5142.826,"text":"主席可以發言就院長所運你的這個協商結論第二點是說這個兩個案子依先後的順序進行處理就是民進黨有提一個案希望複為審查的然後國民黨團也提出一個案"},{"start":5143.507,"end":5143.667,"text":"請國民黨團發言"},{"start":5166.946,"end":5167.106,"text":"請臺灣民眾黨發言"},{"start":5195.578,"end":5203.032,"text":"對我們那個處理的方式齁我們會有一個正式的提案那如果反正大家都留下來了嘛今天把它處理一下"},{"start":5204.943,"end":5231.465,"text":"我們請議事處高處長補充報告稍等 麻煩林法院跟各位黨員報告齁如果草野協商結論大家目前有共識就是等一下院會要來進行有關總預算案還有前瞻特別預算案各黨團及委員所提出的提議我們就依先後方式提依先後來進行表決那我跟大家講院會的處理方式等一下我們就是報告院會現在繼續開會"},{"start":5233.647,"end":5252.945,"text":"來處理這個總預算案跟特別預算案的後續事宜先處理總預算案的部分請宣讀各黨團的提議一先後來進行處理那目前民進黨所提的總預算案就是正常就是復違因為這個是要大家有共識就這樣處理然後接下來再處理民進黨因為現在民眾黨還沒提那民眾黨如果提"},{"start":5254.617,"end":5274.63,"text":"國民黨有提了嘛提過來了那總預算就這樣處理然後這個總預算處理完之後就依哪個黨團的提議通過做一個決定然後接下來繼續處理特別預算案部分那特別預算案部分感覺上大家如果是本來如果現在就有共識就可以簽出一個協商結論我們等一下根本就協商就唸完這個特別預算案"},{"start":5275.31,"end":5277.211,"text":"現在高處長是分兩部分麻煩等一下請各黨團幹部發言可以加入討論"},{"start":5301.468,"end":5301.648,"text":"主席"},{"start":5318.399,"end":5318.519,"text":"前瞻基礎建設703億"},{"start":5344.826,"end":5345.467,"text":"復位審查復位審查復位審查"},{"start":5373.268,"end":5401.471,"text":"再邀請各黨團去會面再開一次會是是這樣子的很明確是要請卓院長邀請各黨團第一個要看各黨團又不願意第二個當然因為行政院代表不見了不在了不在了就是這個部分我們再確認一下因為如果說這是大家協商的公司當然院長也應當配合來辦理只是這看看各黨團的"},{"start":5403.311,"end":5427.722,"text":"那我希望第一句話維護國會尊嚴 國會尊嚴及行政立法互動的平等大家對話這樣子那是不是我再把它加一個第三點然後大家再休息溝通一下然後再看要不要簽這樣子我加一個第三點下去加第三點下去那個"},{"start":5432.731,"end":5457.151,"text":"那那個 剛才我們高處長所報告的那個 國民黨團沒有意見嗎那個 由 院長邀請這一點 我們沒有意見啦那前瞻我們是 前瞻這部分我們是認為要一併處理 要一併處理就是說今天也要 我們有意見啦 說今天要通過我們有意見喔是 今天前瞻的部分我們還是認為就是一起 跟總預算一起來赴為喔 就不要分開啦"},{"start":5460.184,"end":5462.846,"text":"總預算提議均保留送院會處理,特別預算各黨團同意交財委會處理"},{"start":5513.308,"end":5535.707,"text":"這是院長的好意因為大家可以思量看看總預算大家關切的部分總預算可以再溝通但是前瞻只剩下最後一期了703億先讓他負為審查大家也爭取我們嚴格把關預算的空間跟時間這勞煩大家可以支持"},{"start":5956.306,"end":5983.791,"text":"好 各位黨團幹部請坐謝謝我們經過溝通我們現在運營一個黨團協商結論請各位黨團幹部仔細聆聽時間113年11月5日星期二下午6點地點紅樓302會議室協商主題延伸114年度中央政府總預算案及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計劃第五期特別預算案相關事宜決定事項一"},{"start":5985.732,"end":6008.286,"text":"為立法行政兩院和諧互動,針對原住民進法補償、公糧收購及健保點值等預算編列事宜於11月7日 之前,由行政院院長邀請本院在野黨團、執政黨黨團會面,表示處理上開預算解決方案及誠意"},{"start":6009.417,"end":6033.463,"text":"二 各黨團同意有關110年度中央政府總預算案之各項提議均保留送院會一提案先後順序進行處理三 各黨團同意有關中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第五期特別預算案之各項提議均保留送院會一提案先後順序進行處理請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見"},{"start":6035.711,"end":6038.633,"text":"沒有意見我們現在簽字完畢之後我們定7點40分進院會進行表決謝謝大家"}]},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[],"term":11,"id":"黨團協商-2024110553","type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商"}},{"id":"16229","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16229","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbf5bf31e53d7c13d02cb32797b746b7f9083084566cc2bdb4aa0df7cd4f14e7795ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-05T13:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：說明：有鑑於國家發展基金（下稱國發基金）近年來所投資之標的逾半嚴重虧損，更有投資之公司以造假財報坑殺投資人、涉及官商勾結，裝設中國製產品於軍事要塞等弊案叢生，爰於院會提案要求成立「國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會」。協商主題：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，為合理監督國發基金使用規劃、確實了解國家產業發展策略與投資評估，以保障納稅人之權益與國家資源，建請院會作成以下決議：「成立『國家發展基金不當投資曁管理失職調查委員會』，要求國家發展委員會及行政院國家發展基金管理會等有關機關就特定議案涉及事項提供相關調查資料，於必要時依立法院職權行使法第五十九條之一舉行聽證會，以落實國會監督，保障納稅人之權益。」是否有當？請公決案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-05","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-05T13:08:07+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T14:03:00+08:00","duration":3293,"影片長度":"00:54:53","委員發言時間":"13:08:07 - 14:03:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2024110142","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.47034375,"end":590.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1347.66846875,"end":1348.8665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1348.93409375,"end":1349.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1350.4190937500002,"end":1353.3722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1353.97971875,"end":1359.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1360.5103437500002,"end":1362.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1362.8897187500002,"end":1364.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1364.79659375,"end":1368.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1369.1334687500002,"end":1370.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1371.3272187500002,"end":1375.1578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1378.1278437500002,"end":1380.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1382.4478437500002,"end":1384.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1384.6753437500001,"end":1386.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1388.1853437500001,"end":1391.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1392.8428437500002,"end":1399.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1400.8584687500002,"end":1401.7359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1401.8709687500002,"end":1404.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1404.7059687500002,"end":1407.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1408.55346875,"end":1414.3753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1415.7590937500001,"end":1421.7328437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1422.8465937500002,"end":1428.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1428.4322187500002,"end":1434.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1435.1822187500002,"end":1435.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1436.2115937500002,"end":1441.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1442.55659375,"end":1448.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1449.18846875,"end":1453.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1453.7278437500001,"end":1456.5965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1457.2378437500001,"end":1458.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1459.02659375,"end":1463.5997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1464.0215937500002,"end":1470.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1470.5015937500002,"end":1474.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1474.9734687500002,"end":1480.2215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1480.6603437500003,"end":1484.4572187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1485.0140937500003,"end":1500.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1500.67409375,"end":1501.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1501.78784375,"end":1506.5297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1506.68159375,"end":1514.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1518.4265937500002,"end":1520.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1523.3203437500001,"end":1524.6534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1524.8053437500002,"end":1530.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1530.7959687500002,"end":1535.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1536.5672187500002,"end":1537.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1537.91721875,"end":1540.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1540.75221875,"end":1541.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1541.3428437500002,"end":1543.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1544.0765937500003,"end":1546.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1547.19846875,"end":1550.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1550.5228437500002,"end":1554.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1554.65721875,"end":1556.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1556.4290937500002,"end":1558.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1558.57221875,"end":1561.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1561.6434687500002,"end":1565.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1565.9297187500001,"end":1569.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1569.4903437500002,"end":1574.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1574.4347187500002,"end":1575.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1575.6665937500002,"end":1576.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1577.30346875,"end":1578.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1578.29909375,"end":1579.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1579.7840937500002,"end":1581.0665937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1581.1509687500002,"end":1585.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1586.0447187500001,"end":1591.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1591.9003437500003,"end":1593.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1593.60471875,"end":1594.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1595.2078437500002,"end":1595.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1595.5284687500002,"end":1596.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1596.55784375,"end":1597.7559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1598.1778437500002,"end":1601.4347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1602.1097187500002,"end":1605.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1605.8728437500001,"end":1607.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1608.0159687500002,"end":1610.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1611.20534375,"end":1613.6690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1614.12471875,"end":1615.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1615.5084687500002,"end":1616.4703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1616.9934687500001,"end":1621.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1621.88721875,"end":1623.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1624.3172187500002,"end":1626.7640937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1627.5909687500002,"end":1629.9872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1630.4934687500001,"end":1632.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1632.8222187500003,"end":1634.5097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1635.3534687500003,"end":1635.8934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1637.05784375,"end":1649.8322187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1650.3047187500001,"end":1654.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1655.21534375,"end":1658.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1658.4722187500001,"end":1663.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1663.4334687500002,"end":1672.8497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1673.3728437500001,"end":1677.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1677.9122187500002,"end":1691.1590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1691.3109687500003,"end":1694.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1695.2259687500002,"end":1706.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1706.97096875,"end":1716.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1716.7078437500002,"end":1723.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1726.2928437500002,"end":1729.7859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1729.9378437500002,"end":1753.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1754.0184687500002,"end":1758.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1759.1653437500001,"end":1759.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1760.3634687500003,"end":1766.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1766.2697187500003,"end":1767.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1767.8897187500002,"end":1775.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1775.9728437500003,"end":1778.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1779.09471875,"end":1801.8253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1802.0447187500001,"end":1802.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1803.15846875,"end":1803.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1804.3228437500002,"end":1844.1309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1844.4347187500002,"end":1856.6690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1857.8165937500003,"end":1908.6947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1909.2009687500001,"end":1911.0909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1911.2090937500002,"end":1911.9347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1912.5084687500002,"end":1922.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1922.24534375,"end":1941.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1941.4153437500001,"end":1945.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1945.75221875,"end":1952.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1953.61596875,"end":1961.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1962.1209687500002,"end":1963.8253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1964.2472187500002,"end":1967.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1967.5547187500001,"end":1972.4315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1972.5159687500002,"end":1980.7172187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1980.8690937500003,"end":2032.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2033.3165937500003,"end":2042.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2043.1209687500002,"end":2051.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2051.6259687500005,"end":2055.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2056.0809687500005,"end":2065.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2065.91909375,"end":2068.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2068.02846875,"end":2068.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2069.26034375,"end":2073.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2074.18784375,"end":2080.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2080.33034375,"end":2083.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2084.2115937500002,"end":2090.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2091.4678437500006,"end":2096.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2096.8678437500002,"end":2102.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2102.2340937500003,"end":2103.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2103.97221875,"end":2105.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2105.5078437500006,"end":2108.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2108.96721875,"end":2112.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2113.42221875,"end":2122.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2123.2772187500004,"end":2128.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2128.96409375,"end":2133.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2133.73971875,"end":2135.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2135.9334687500004,"end":2138.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2138.8190937500003,"end":2139.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2140.05096875,"end":2143.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2144.2022187500006,"end":2149.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2149.93971875,"end":2154.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2155.32284375,"end":2156.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2157.01034375,"end":2170.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2171.4384687500005,"end":2185.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2185.81596875,"end":2190.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2190.55784375,"end":2192.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2194.1522187500004,"end":2194.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2194.3209687500002,"end":2194.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2194.37159375,"end":2195.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2196.0084687500002,"end":2197.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2198.52284375,"end":2202.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2202.9440937500003,"end":2203.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2204.49659375,"end":2206.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2207.2303437500004,"end":2208.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2209.1034687500005,"end":2210.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2210.6728437500005,"end":2212.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2213.54159375,"end":2216.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2217.22034375,"end":2221.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2222.02971875,"end":2223.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2223.78471875,"end":2224.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2224.8815937500003,"end":2227.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2227.76721875,"end":2229.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2229.3534687500005,"end":2235.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2235.88409375,"end":2237.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2237.63909375,"end":2242.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2242.4147187500002,"end":2244.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2245.1484687500006,"end":2250.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2250.27846875,"end":2252.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2252.0165937500005,"end":2252.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2253.06284375,"end":2256.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2260.72409375,"end":2274.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2275.30409375,"end":2282.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2282.4590937500006,"end":2285.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2285.54721875,"end":2347.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2348.4403437500005,"end":2352.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2355.74721875,"end":2357.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2357.9747187500006,"end":2366.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2366.29409375,"end":2374.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2374.7147187500004,"end":2393.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2393.31096875,"end":2457.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2458.21221875,"end":2461.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2461.77284375,"end":2487.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2488.35096875,"end":2509.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2510.28846875,"end":2520.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2521.91534375,"end":2530.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2530.35284375,"end":2531.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2532.22596875,"end":2536.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2537.03534375,"end":2551.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2552.18909375,"end":2562.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2562.71909375,"end":2564.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2564.76096875,"end":2575.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2575.1728437500005,"end":2580.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2581.04534375,"end":2589.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2589.66846875,"end":2608.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2608.6022187500002,"end":2615.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2615.80784375,"end":2620.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2620.9715937500005,"end":2624.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2626.5740937500004,"end":2631.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2632.3622187500005,"end":2633.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2633.84721875,"end":2638.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2638.5553437500002,"end":2641.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2642.08221875,"end":2643.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2643.3815937500003,"end":2644.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2644.7147187500004,"end":2647.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2647.98846875,"end":2663.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2664.2897187500002,"end":2664.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2664.94784375,"end":2664.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2664.99846875,"end":2665.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2665.0322187500005,"end":2665.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2665.0997187500006,"end":2668.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2668.55909375,"end":2673.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2674.7859687500004,"end":2684.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2685.0290937500004,"end":2687.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2695.5253437500005,"end":2696.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2696.2509687500005,"end":2697.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2701.27971875,"end":2703.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2703.5915937500004,"end":2722.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2711.10096875,"end":2711.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2722.49159375,"end":2723.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2724.06096875,"end":2728.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2729.1572187500005,"end":2731.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2731.70534375,"end":2733.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2733.4940937500005,"end":2735.2322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2736.0084687500002,"end":2740.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2740.7334687500006,"end":2751.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2751.97221875,"end":2753.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2753.5078437500006,"end":2754.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2754.73971875,"end":2757.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2757.4059687500003,"end":2777.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2778.43221875,"end":2789.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2789.87346875,"end":2800.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2800.84221875,"end":2804.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2804.5378437500003,"end":2807.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2808.26721875,"end":2809.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2810.37659375,"end":2815.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2815.8272187500006,"end":2816.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2816.8397187500004,"end":2829.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2829.34409375,"end":2829.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2830.2722187500003,"end":2831.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2832.4490937500004,"end":2836.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2836.5497187500005,"end":2839.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2839.82346875,"end":2840.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2840.78534375,"end":2851.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2851.7878437500003,"end":2858.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2858.63909375,"end":2875.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2875.3622187500005,"end":2881.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2881.5553437500002,"end":2885.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2886.11159375,"end":2891.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2891.5790937500005,"end":2891.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2892.2878437500003,"end":2898.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2899.8984687500006,"end":2904.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2905.11284375,"end":2910.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2910.69846875,"end":2916.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2917.6172187500006,"end":2923.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2923.6415937500005,"end":2925.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2925.4978437500004,"end":2933.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2933.3953437500004,"end":2934.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2934.2390937500004,"end":2936.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2937.0234687500006,"end":2950.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2951.7890937500006,"end":2954.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2955.2653437500003,"end":2957.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2958.37034375,"end":2958.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2958.8934687500005,"end":2960.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2960.8847187500005,"end":2961.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2962.3190937500003,"end":2965.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2965.6434687500005,"end":2968.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2969.03534375,"end":2975.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2975.6503437500005,"end":2978.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2978.7722187500003,"end":2981.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2981.47221875,"end":2981.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2982.73784375,"end":2986.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2986.72034375,"end":2988.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2988.9815937500007,"end":2990.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2991.29346875,"end":2992.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2992.25534375,"end":2995.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2995.57971875,"end":2997.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2997.50346875,"end":2998.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2998.93784375,"end":3000.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3000.7940937500007,"end":3015.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3015.03659375,"end":3018.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3019.12034375,"end":3021.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3022.3603437500005,"end":3029.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3027.57471875,"end":3033.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3033.9197187500004,"end":3042.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3042.15471875,"end":3045.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3045.7490937500006,"end":3048.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3048.83721875,"end":3051.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3052.27971875,"end":3054.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3055.11471875,"end":3056.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3056.5828437500004,"end":3057.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3057.88221875,"end":3058.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3058.30409375,"end":3058.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3059.09721875,"end":3061.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3062.26971875,"end":3062.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3062.8097187500007,"end":3067.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3068.3953437500004,"end":3074.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3074.7403437500006,"end":3075.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3076.27596875,"end":3078.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3079.2965937500003,"end":3087.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3087.6159687500003,"end":3089.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3091.0584687500004,"end":3097.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3098.4665937500004,"end":3100.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3100.5253437500005,"end":3102.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3102.95534375,"end":3106.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3106.88721875,"end":3112.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3116.9784687500005,"end":3117.11346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1347.891,"end":1374.713,"text":"非常感謝各位黨團的代表出席今天的黨團協商那因為現在我們表定的時間是1點30分開始那時間已到那我先介紹一下我們今天在場黨團代表的委員那首先是我們中國國民黨的鄭正前委員"},{"start":1378.331,"end":1398.837,"text":"也非常歡迎鄭天才委員台灣民眾黨黨團的代表張祺凱委員以及我們的麥玉珍麥委員也非常感謝我們民主進步黨黨團的幹部蔡依瑜蔡委員"},{"start":1401.076,"end":1421.312,"text":"今天也非常感謝我們行政院這邊相關的官員也有列席首先介紹的是國發會的主委劉靜清劉主委以及國家發展基金管理委員會的執行秘書汪廷安汪執行秘書"},{"start":1422.898,"end":1440.809,"text":"那其他還有一些組長跟署長跟副組長還有檢密那我就在這邊一併的表示歡迎不一一介紹時間的關係請見諒那今天我們所召開的黨團協商主要是要處理台灣民眾黨黨團"},{"start":1442.731,"end":1462.627,"text":"為了要合理的監督國發基金使用規劃確實瞭解國家產業發展策略．跟投資的評估保障納稅人的權益與國家的資源那建請院會做成以下的決議成立國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會"},{"start":1464.108,"end":1480.758,"text":"要求國家發展委員會及行政院國家發展基金管理會等有關機關就特定議案涉及事項提供相關調查資料那必要的時候我們也可以依照立法院職權刑事法的規定來舉行聽證會以落實國會監督保障納稅人的權益"},{"start":1485.06,"end":1513.639,"text":"那這個案子呢經由一百一十三年七月十六號立法院第十一屆第一會期第二十二次院會決議交付黨團協商那由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商那我們首先是不是可以先請提案的黨團代表是不是由台灣民眾黨黨團的代表先跟其他的黨團我們說明一下提案的質據是不是請張啟凱委員"},{"start":1518.822,"end":1539.491,"text":"大家好我們台灣今天我們要談的是人民的納稅錢到了這個國發基金有沒有被善加利用的我們台灣民眾黨做了統計發現國發基金最近這幾年投資的標的差不多有超過一半是嚴重虧損的"},{"start":1542.132,"end":1564.894,"text":"2017年投資如興2018年投資的聯合再生能源2019年投資的東北光電科技現在國發基金好像變成是一個紓困的基金了有有甚者如興還出現了坑殺投資人聯合再生還出現了不只是官商勾結還有中國產品製造在我們的"},{"start":1566.247,"end":1590.779,"text":"軍事要塞的這個問題所以現在看起來國發基金啊問題一大堆包括我們台灣民眾黨開了好幾次的記者會還有包括寧日攻擊前幾天大家一直在討論說國發基金投資了寧日攻擊這個影片投資了4170萬元到目前為止他的決策方式目前沒有一個好好的交代那我們剛剛"},{"start":1592.106,"end":1610.499,"text":"盧列的這些的案子都發現在國發基金在審查過程裡面今天主委也在這個現場發現很多委員都是請假的然後這個過程裡面看起來黑箱也蠻多的我剛剛提到了光是盧興啊後來又發現他洗錢洗到大陸去了"},{"start":1611.28,"end":1635.638,"text":"然後聯合再生不只採取了中國製造的逆變電器裝設在蘭陽指揮部跟國防大學東北在108年投資的時候不到兩年他就因為嚴重的虧損導致政見交易所都把他嚇死了所以今天我們鄭重的提出來希望我們可以成立依照"},{"start":1637.356,"end":1654.128,"text":"更請院會依照立法院之前行使法第八章調查權的行使建立院會作成協議成立國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會我們剛剛只是獨立了四個重要的案子還有非常多的"},{"start":1654.528,"end":1672.639,"text":"第一個是不是在審查的過程裡面有問題這個主委上任之初就特別提醒就是說以前的投資的這個審查的過程可能有些問題要怎麼精進這是一部分那第二剛講的在這個過程裡面虧損為什麼這麼嚴重甚至發生了弊案我們期待"},{"start":1673.479,"end":1693.591,"text":"朝野能夠有一心把我們這個人民的納稅錢勘緊而且既然是國家發展基金就對國家發展應該是要是有用的我們希望把這個虧損的問題可以解決把裡面的弊案可以查清楚所以建請大家可以強力的來支持這個案子早一點成立我今天不要變成好像又等一下各受各話又要送到表姐好像不見得好"},{"start":1693.871,"end":1705.456,"text":"如果能夠期待的話今天或許大家可以在委員會裡面在這個朝野協商能夠有一個共識我們早一點在院會成立這個國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會謝謝"},{"start":1707.483,"end":1723.713,"text":"非常感謝張祺凱委員我補充介紹歡迎我們中國國民黨的張家俊張委員也來出席這一場黨團協商那接下來我們是不是就請那個中國國民黨的代表不曉得哪一位委員來請鄭正前委員代表發言"},{"start":1726.728,"end":1751.515,"text":"主席、所有的委員包括我們國發會主委劉主委也在然後我們汪執密也在我想說我們今天準備希望能夠成立國發基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會我覺得其實有它的必要說實話劉主委上來之後我知道說現在對於整個國發基金的投資有趨嚴的一個方向"},{"start":1752.435,"end":1777.207,"text":"可是呢其實我們看到監察院在112年1月的時候才對東北岸還有盧興兩家上市公司來導致國發基金的這個廣大股民受損害提出糾正案那其中在這裡頭的時候監察院也直接提出國發會裡面有五大缺失包括了政策評估會議不公開透明沒有留錄音發言記錄第二個國發"},{"start":1780.309,"end":1803.268,"text":"會產發處缺乏評估依據及過程第三個決策軌跡及可苛責之內控機制付諸確如第四個禁職調查及企業價值評鑑未確實執行第五個忽視外聘專家學者警示意見所以簡單來說這五個裡面就特別提到說在"},{"start":1804.91,"end":1820.28,"text":"審這個案子的時候外聘專家就已經提出了警告可是國發會充耳不聞然後又沒有保存發言的記錄作為事後苛責的一個基礎那我進經濟委員會以來的時候坦白說我有注意到另外一個個案就兆元案"},{"start":1821.661,"end":1843.87,"text":"趙遠按之,國發基金從第一次政策評估到會議通過決定投資只花了三個月的時間三個月之後投資了兩億零四百九十六萬進去之後有要求我們要有一席的董事跟一席獨董結果趙遠拿了錢之後什麼都沒有做拖了一年多之後才讓董事進駐同時在進駐的同時還宣布了減資57.97%"},{"start":1849.493,"end":1855.691,"text":"所以等於是拿了國發基金的錢進去之後呢國發基金什麼都還沒有做就已經損失掉了百分之"},{"start":1858.084,"end":1881.387,"text":"將近50%左右的一個錢那麼在兩年之後再次減資50.05%就投資國家基金投資了三年之後呢遇到兩次減資就直接虧準了80%然後1.6億的公帑就這樣不見那麼在這裡面的時候我就發現我們在基金委員會當中我們曾經要求拿到一些當時這省政案的一些細部資料那其實也沒有辦法取得"},{"start":1882.608,"end":1905.319,"text":"當時只是說有一個體制很好的大公司環球金他也投入了環球金投入跟我們國發基金投入是不是就是一樣的一個一比一的條件就可以直接去做我們不曉得重點是我後來再發現國發會在長期虧損的列管表當中的時候趙遠他竟然已經變成了一個正常戶我們虧損了80%之後然後變成正常戶為什麼變正常戶是因為"},{"start":1909.421,"end":1935.716,"text":"環球金把它併購了那這樣子莫名其妙走下來之後我們就損失了這麼多錢然後感覺好像就是也沒有太多的一個苛責的情況那我們希望就是國發會、國發基金對於整個投資的一個部分都能夠有更好的一個performance那當然就是我們知道國發基金他某一個部分有創投的概念在這裡頭可是這過程當中不能說他是創投"},{"start":1936.696,"end":1960.871,"text":"所以風險就沒有辦法去控管我覺得這是不對的所以對於今天我們民眾黨這邊提出希望成立國發基金的不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會那本席這邊是強力的一個支持的以上謝謝好 非常感謝鄭正前委員那接下來我們是不是請我們民主進步黨的黨團的幹部蔡宇宜蔡委員"},{"start":1962.142,"end":1979.958,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們今天在處理這個針對國發基金的這個調查委員會那我們知道立法院來成立調查委員會那從4至729號以及最近的憲判之第9號"},{"start":1981.039,"end":2009.636,"text":"基本上都講到了說他主要要針對跟立法院行使法律案或預算案的特定議案有重大關聯的事項當然民眾黨提案有他列舉的一個關聯的方向但是主要是說因為宪判是第九號後未來這樣的調查委員會是由院會來成立那是宪判是第九號後"},{"start":2010.416,"end":2029.092,"text":"那這大概是一個制度上的一個改變因為過去是由委員會來成立這個調查委員會所以我們的具體建議是希望可以由韓國瑜院長那秘書長先來是不是跟大家溝通未來這樣的調查委員會他所行使"},{"start":2029.412,"end":2050.741,"text":"他所成立的我們未來的成立的形式或者是未來這樣的委員會他如何運作以及他的內部的成員的一些分配這個我想這個可能有需要以院長然後來說院會層級的調查委員會要如何來運作那所以我們具體是說是不是這部分"},{"start":2051.941,"end":2068.035,"text":"是不是有待由我們韓院長再來協商那之後再來討論我們未來立法院所成立的這個調查委員會因為這個是第一個所以我想是不是這部分我們還是先先去如同我剛剛所說的好謝謝"},{"start":2069.315,"end":2087.111,"text":"好那個所以民主進步黨黨團蔡委員的立場是說目前沒有贊成也沒有反對主要的意思是希望有韓國院長來召集協商是嗎沒有錯因為調查委員會的部分是要他是屬於院會層級的所以他未來他的整個"},{"start":2087.791,"end":2108.076,"text":"成立的條件是怎樣所以在還沒有這個院長說明這個調查委員會的時候基本上我們是反對今天的這樣要今天就要來協商然後要來成立這樣的調查委員會基本上我主持協商我的立場都跟以前一樣"},{"start":2109.176,"end":2128.05,"text":"雖然對這件事情我自己有非常強烈的意見跟看法但在主席的位置上我把自己強烈的意見跟看法都保留在自己心中我不太適合在主席的位置上面做太強烈的宣告那只不過說跟這個協商有關係的事項還是要跟大家報告目前"},{"start":2129.051,"end":2142.633,"text":"由台灣民眾黨黨團所成立的這個國發基金的調查委員會的確就是在院會的層級下面的確就是在院會的層級下面我們要設這個調查委員會所以這個是院會層級沒有問題"},{"start":2144.255,"end":2160.863,"text":"那第二個部分今天之所以會召集協商其實也不是我們吃飽太閒沒有事要找事做因為這個就是經由院會的決議交由台灣民眾黨黨團來負責召集協商那既然是院會的決議"},{"start":2162.083,"end":2184.282,"text":"那我就要執行院會的決議所以今天也非常感謝三個黨團的代表都派了代表來出席這個協商那當然三個黨團的代表輪流都發言過了但今天還有其他的委員好像也很關心來參與那我是不是先請教一下其他委員是不是有想要發言表達一些意見的"},{"start":2186.211,"end":2202.146,"text":"大家不要有壓力就想講話就講話但如果不想講話我也都尊重那我們接下來請鄭天才政委員好非常謝謝這個除了提案案由裡面所提的這些案子需要調查之外"},{"start":2205.025,"end":2221.372,"text":"這個張錫凱委員特別提到的那個電影那個部分因為這個國發基金是根據這個產業發展條例第29條規定最主要的目的就是要加速產業創新加值促進經濟轉型經濟轉型及國家的發展"},{"start":2227.955,"end":2230.756,"text":"好,非常感謝鄭天才委員接下來我們有請張家俊張委員"},{"start":2260.728,"end":2284.495,"text":"主席、各位委員還有主委那其實這個國發基金我想大家都希望說他是真的對國家發展有幫助的但是我也要提醒一下主委成立這個不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會其實對於主委是一種保護因為你根本不理解說"},{"start":2285.615,"end":2288.698,"text":"在你之下會發生什麼事包括說之前這個盧新廠大賠慘賠的時候國發會的主委龔明星他在被尋的時候他就坦言說他是被騙了你知道嗎所以這件事情成立這個委員會對於主委對於國發會的這些行政人員其實是一個保障"},{"start":2308.517,"end":2336.365,"text":"尤其過去包括聯合債生賠了30億等等其實非常多的案件讓國發會淪為紓困基金真的是不應該包括審查的時候審議的過程應該要出席的人員不是請假就是代理擺明他們就是知道有問題官商勾結所以他們也在撇清責任主委我建議你"},{"start":2337.045,"end":2352.396,"text":"能夠支持我們成立這個委員會因為這個委員會的成立才能夠讓這個國發基金真正展現它的這個用途謝謝好非常感謝那個張家俊張委員我們接下來有請麥玉正麥委員"},{"start":2356.082,"end":2376.552,"text":"謝謝主席和各位委員我們希望真的是要成立一個獨立調查委員然後以展開全面的調查工作確保就是我們國發基金的投資運作也符合國家的利益就是未來在發展發生這一些弊案"},{"start":2377.512,"end":2397.817,"text":"也有像我們的張委員說的就是要有調查委員來幫忙我們就是有建議幾個必要性就是獨立性的透明度還有調查委員會將由律法院獨立應做確保調查的過程不受任何的行政單位的干擾還有對外公開調查結果"},{"start":2401.578,"end":2406.682,"text":"提升透明．增加社會對政府的信任．徹底揭露事實的真相．通過委員會的深入調查．全面透露基金的投入．還有管理．還有退場機制上的"},{"start":2423.575,"end":2435.703,"text":"協視以便誠心責任歸屬協保未來改善的措施第三就是修法與政策的建議調查委員會將根據調查的結果向立法院提出修法建議及政策的建議確保未來國發基金運作更加嚴謹有效以符合就是產業發展還有長遠的規劃"},{"start":2452.794,"end":2473.422,"text":"強化基金的運作還有成立調查委員會有助於查找目前基金管理的流程還有我們的制度的問題還有改善基金的管理運作因為都是在賠錢所以希望確保基金的使用"},{"start":2474.382,"end":2483.852,"text":"和法所以我們希望就是我們的同仁還有我們國發會的基金能承載著就是提升國發競爭力還有我們的經濟的發展還有就是我們如何負責"},{"start":2489.797,"end":2508.835,"text":"負責這個國發基金的監督還有運作我們合理性我們要成為成立一個調查委員會就是真正為徹底為國家監督的職責還有真相還有就是一些腐爛我們都是要有這個基金可以"},{"start":2510.977,"end":2520.334,"text":"要監督還有應做的信任所以希望大家去支持我們希望就是這個可以正式的去成立以上謝謝"},{"start":2521.943,"end":2538.887,"text":"好 非常感謝麥委員那因為剛剛那個民進黨黨團的代表蔡瑞瑜蔡委員舉手好像有什麼話想補充來有請蔡委員來我二次發言齁那因為我還是要強調齁因為調查委員會他一定要在呃憲法729號跟憲判之第9號"},{"start":2541.164,"end":2561.907,"text":"事實上它的要件就是說就立委行使職權的那第二是要特定議案有重大關聯且有調查之必要所以我在想因為剛剛包括我們提案人的時候他在他事實上提案裡面是列舉了三個包括盧鑫包括再生能源包括"},{"start":2563.048,"end":2576.764,"text":"東北那所以如果是叫特定事項那應該就是這三案但是後來又講到凌日攻擊那可能這部分就超出了所謂特定議案他所要調查委會所要調查的範圍"},{"start":2578.105,"end":2602.407,"text":"因為這個調查委員會他也不應該就是未來國發會在審理國發基金的時候變成他的保護傘還是怎樣我覺得這個都不是調查委員會的目的他要成立的目的所以我認為我們真的是有需要韓院長我們再次確認由院的層級成立的調查委員會那他的目的性以及他的一些"},{"start":2604.288,"end":2623.398,"text":"內容就是他的一個規範是如何那否則的話不可能成立一個調查委員會然後他就是掛在那邊然後他可以吼無窮只進媒案都可以來調查因為這是憲法第9號就講得很清楚他的特定議案就是說他的特定性要先把他框定住這樣好不好謝謝"},{"start":2626.778,"end":2641.229,"text":"那個謝謝蔡議員委員當然每一個委員有每一個委員個別的意見我們都尊重那現在黨團協商我基本上只是要確定各位黨團基本上面所抱持的立場"},{"start":2642.17,"end":2663.61,"text":"那有共識就有共識沒有共識我一向的立場是不希望在黨團協商變成了一個辯論或是互相攻擊的大會對於議事的效率對於委員彼此之間的和諧都不好所以我自己沒有表達太強烈的意見但我們確定各個黨團的立場這樣就好那今天非常感"},{"start":2665.351,"end":2686.846,"text":"我沒有說你有空氣來拜託我的主持會議這麼中立這麼平和這麼理性你應該聽得出來啦那個我們接下來非常今天也感謝我們的國發會的主委有到現場那我們是不是也不要讓您枯坐在這邊給主委是不是希望講幾句話"},{"start":2696.366,"end":2697.328,"text":"謝謝主席還有各位委員"},{"start":2705.174,"end":2728.215,"text":"謝謝委員還有主席我想表達幾件事第一個我覺得我們用詞一定要精準我們在電視前面國發基金不是全部賠錢剛剛委員說我們都在賠錢去年我們賺了288億我們今年預估也會超過265億那第二個如果投資私利就是有罪的話那巴菲特也有罪"},{"start":2730.209,"end":2751.16,"text":"但是請注意投資的公司違法請問你投資人有沒有罪我們現在是認定被投資的公司違法投資人有罪因為我們先認定是不當的投資跟失職所以我比較擔心我們同仁會因為這樣而先認定罪再去找"},{"start":2752.02,"end":2777.49,"text":"找出證據這個我不是那麼我是建議直接如果你們真的要查那就是查國發基金而不是說不當投資我不希望我們沒有罪就列了一個罪在上面這對我們同仁不公不公平第二個如果你今天只看投資失利的這幾個案子對我們是不公平的那我希望各位也要獎勵一下我們賺錢的部分對員工是不公平那再來第三個部分我也想講一下就是說"},{"start":2778.73,"end":2807.417,"text":"臨日攻擊到底是不是有罪是不是一個錯誤那我先講一下我們是依據文創條例我們我們把錢撥給了文化部文化部進行這樣的文創投資那這是這個程序我們從來沒有沒有沒說清楚過那這個程序的部分我們後來也把那個文化部的資料也送交委員身上了所以資料是還是存在的但是但是請注意喔他沒有被定罪之前不要說我們有罪因為"},{"start":2808.497,"end":2831.832,"text":"領略攻擊是一部電影它是一部電影是一個投資那能不能成功我們並不清楚我們尊重文化部的決定那盧鑫聯合再生等等我們認為這些公司有問題盧鑫我們也跟著去告了我們也去告了那我再講一遍就是說我們每一個評選都有評審委員的簽名投票裡面有反對的那"},{"start":2832.692,"end":2850.705,"text":"過去的是過半就通過所以一定有這個多數同意少數反對的問題那不能說這個案子沒有人同意那是他過去的遊戲規則那我也跟各位報告我已經把它改成三民之二同意跟四民之三同意兩個不同的階段那我們希望把它整個過程變得更嚴謹"},{"start":2851.866,"end":2877.822,"text":"那各位講的是沒有錄音的部分我們現在也錄音了都已經錄音了那每一個投票都有親自的簽名都有親自的簽名那我只是在表達第一個我們先建議沒有明確的政績我們先不要汙名這個團隊這個對大家不好第二個我們的確賺錢288億扣除台積電還賺了90多億非台積電的部分還賺了90多億那再來我們過去的管理我們認為這個公司這個這個獲利不好"},{"start":2881.624,"end":2897.89,"text":"然後我們就認為他不好但是其實不是的投資的時候還是要看被投資的股價舉個例子我們投資藥華藥他現在還沒賺錢但是我們已經賺了45倍股價600多那這些東西我想說我們可能要用比較正確的觀念來看他會比較好一點這是我想表達的"},{"start":2900.406,"end":2922.847,"text":"謝謝主委的發言那當然國發會有國發會的立場我也尊重國發會的立場所以也給主委發言的空間那當然裡面你所講的很多內容其他委員未必有跟你一致的看法那只不過說可能說要有一些正確的理解或正確的觀念我想在場每一位委員"},{"start":2923.687,"end":2949.898,"text":"大家都有正確的理解也有正確的觀念只是看的角度不太一樣我也不會說主委你要有正確的理解或正確的觀念這樣子恐怕也對主委不是很尊敬那因為剛剛張祺凱委員又舉手那我本來就想要把他結束掉了但因為剛剛蔡議員委員我有給他第二輪發言所以這樣馬上不給張委員第二輪發言的機會對張委員不公平那是不是請張委員就盡量剪短"},{"start":2951.86,"end":2978.286,"text":"主委不要不要太擔心啊你的努力我沒有看到只是我們要提醒你的上一任有說他被騙的我們希望你不要被騙我們是保護你啦那你剛提的不是國發基金都是不當的投資就是我們是你剛有賺錢的有正確的我們當然是肯定啊先是針對為什麼陳一正委員會是針對有不當投資的那一塊或者有失職的那一塊去做調查而已不是全部全部說國發基金投資的都都是不對的好不好"},{"start":2978.866,"end":2987.358,"text":"阿第二剛剛在講這個凌日攻擊這個事情這個事實上那天我看最近很多朝野立委都在提醒你就是他是一個兩岸戰爭騙"},{"start":2989.105,"end":3017.955,"text":"那國發基金本來就是為了國家發展啊你這個補助那麼多錢給他然後拍出來一個兩岸戰爭的對外資來投資真的好嗎那你前面把它丟給文化部這就是我們要調查的啦讓你有充分的講法然後讓民眾知道說為什麼你要去做這個投資可是目前看起來很多人沒有這個等一下沒關係很多案子啦那我提一下我們是講的是一個原則就是說為什麼要成立這個委員會那個毅我先停一下我先不好意思"},{"start":3019.161,"end":3035.078,"text":"我現在要實施主席的職權就拿到麥克風的請講話沒有拿到麥克風的請仔細聆聽謝謝大家那個張啟凱委員請繼續只是希望說看緊人民的這個納稅錢第二個國發基金真的要發揮它正當跟正常"},{"start":3035.658,"end":3055.956,"text":"而且確實是幫人民有幫助的國家發展所以至少有四個點我覺得是要強化為什麼今天要成立這個委員會第一個就如果有一部分是缺乏省慎的投資評估的這個機制那這個委員會就應該去把它查清楚第二個在審議過程裡面有沒有不透明例如說剛剛講的為什麼那麼多人都在請假或者老是在代理"},{"start":3056.616,"end":3078.277,"text":"他在逃避責任嗎?那第三個有沒有監督國力或者應變不足的地方?像剛剛講的為什麼丟下去的時候之前不曉得他這個公司已經有幾兩年就虧了一兩億然後就下市了然後還有這個有沒有秘密結社的問題有沒有牽扯不明因為在調查像我們剛剛講這三個案子裡面很多啊都牽扯到這個府院高層關係是密切的"},{"start":3079.349,"end":3089.441,"text":"而且後來很多虧損是很嚴重的我覺得就是說我們可以肯定就是說有些投資是正常正確的我們可以肯定可是相對如果有不當的我們希望把它查清楚好不好謝謝"},{"start":3091.089,"end":3109.695,"text":"好,非常感謝各位黨團的代表那從大家發言的結果可以很清楚的看得出來我們今天的協商沒有辦法達成共識沒有辦法達成共識所以我們的協商會議就結束那接下來我們就按照立法院相關的議事規則來加以處理謝謝,散會"}]}},{"id":"156506","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156506","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d4170b28582538d10f8809a962bb91b7dfeafbeffd5a9508f75f8442d53e673a3d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"12:19:48 - 12:20:22","影片長度":"00:00:34","會議時間":"2024-11-05T12:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議（事由：審定本院第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程及人民請願案）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T12:19:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T12:20:22+08:00","duration":34,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議","type":"委員會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[27],"id":"委員會-11-2-27-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.531593750000003,"end":10.814093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.438468750000002,"end":21.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.777218750000003,"end":34.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.739093750000002,"end":31.85721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.817,"end":21.925,"text":"謝謝主席本院國民黨黨團針對第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程草案敬請送院會處理是否有當敬請公決好那我們這個登記委員已經發言完畢"}]}},{"id":"156505","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156505","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41c169305daa9a14e6809a962bb91b7dfeafbeffd5a9508f7553aeae6a5651927f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:19:02 - 12:19:34","影片長度":"00:00:32","會議時間":"2024-11-05T12:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議（事由：審定本院第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程及人民請願案）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T12:19:02+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T12:19:34+08:00","duration":32,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議","type":"委員會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[27],"id":"委員會-11-2-27-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.177218750000002,"end":13.294718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.328468750000003,"end":22.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.453468750000003,"end":24.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.96346875,"end":26.980343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.980343750000003,"end":29.089718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.81096875,"end":32.650343750000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.735,"end":32.031,"text":"主席 主席 各位委員 案由針對第11屆第2會期第8次會議議程討論事項 建請政令下表所內議案是否有當 敬請公決謝謝好 我們請議事人員待會宣讀民主經濟部長 立法院黨長"}]}},{"id":"156504","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156504","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d417b5ede6b2be0dd9f809a962bb91b7dfeafbeffd5a9508f753c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:17:04 - 12:17:46","影片長度":"00:00:42","會議時間":"2024-11-05T12:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議（事由：審定本院第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程及人民請願案）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T12:17:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T12:17:46+08:00","duration":42,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議","type":"委員會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[27],"id":"委員會-11-2-27-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.57721875,"end":22.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.84596875,"end":31.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.63284375,"end":41.96534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.015,"end":1.82,"text":"請王委員正續發言"},{"start":15.045,"end":39.995,"text":"主席 各位委員安遊 針對第11屆第2會期第8次會議議程報告事項 質詢事項 建請照議事日程草案及增列報告事項通過提案人 民族進步黨 立法院黨團好 那我們這個今天只有王正旭委員登記發言"}]}},{"id":"16228","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16228","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddf5bf31e53d7c13d0082e4479c6e2d21a083084566cc2bdb482035dd05a827b7c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-05T12:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議（事由：審定本院第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程及人民請願案）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-05","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-05T11:30:03+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T12:24:00+08:00","duration":3237,"影片長度":"00:53:57","委員發言時間":"11:30:03 - 12:24:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期程序委員會第7次會議","type":"委員會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[27],"id":"委員會-11-2-27-7"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1870.0678437500003,"end":1873.4259687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1873.6453437500002,"end":1875.2147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1875.83909375,"end":1901.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1901.4215937500003,"end":1903.5984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1903.6490937500002,"end":1923.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1923.2240937500003,"end":1927.5609687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1927.6284687500001,"end":1952.8397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1953.8015937500002,"end":1953.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1954.18971875,"end":1959.3534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1959.79221875,"end":1960.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2237.03159375,"end":2240.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2464.2703437500004,"end":2467.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2467.7803437500006,"end":2471.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2472.57284375,"end":2473.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2474.3447187500005,"end":2476.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2477.8884687500004,"end":2551.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2552.77971875,"end":2561.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2561.8584687500006,"end":2569.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2570.56596875,"end":2576.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2577.31596875,"end":2582.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2582.1590937500005,"end":2625.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2626.23659375,"end":2633.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2634.1847187500007,"end":2635.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2635.8553437500004,"end":2639.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2639.8209687500002,"end":2680.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2681.63721875,"end":2689.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2690.2772187500004,"end":2755.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2756.47784375,"end":2767.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2767.27784375,"end":2775.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2776.06971875,"end":2799.5597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2811.15284375,"end":2822.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2834.35596875,"end":2842.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2842.6247187500003,"end":2851.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2856.4453437500006,"end":2866.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2867.2115937500002,"end":2870.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2870.8903437500003,"end":2873.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2875.26096875,"end":2902.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2903.3409687500007,"end":2903.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2904.3365937500002,"end":2913.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2913.2803437500006,"end":2926.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2929.51409375,"end":2935.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2946.08534375,"end":2950.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2950.0847187500003,"end":2959.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2960.36159375,"end":2960.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2963.8884687500004,"end":2963.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2963.92221875,"end":2965.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2967.78659375,"end":2977.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2979.3122187500003,"end":2982.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2992.4747187500006,"end":2993.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2994.3815937500003,"end":3004.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3013.75409375,"end":3018.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3018.88409375,"end":3022.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3022.9678437500006,"end":3044.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3045.05721875,"end":3046.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3047.6222187500007,"end":3052.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3053.2753437500005,"end":3055.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3055.40159375,"end":3056.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3056.9372187500003,"end":3063.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3063.29909375,"end":3069.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3071.80409375,"end":3074.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3075.0440937500007,"end":3077.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3081.9628437500005,"end":3083.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3084.1903437500005,"end":3086.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3093.13409375,"end":3096.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3104.22096875,"end":3110.2790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3110.73471875,"end":3112.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3117.3497187500006,"end":3120.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3121.1972187500005,"end":3123.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3125.8209687500002,"end":3126.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3127.7109687500006,"end":3128.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3129.2803437500006,"end":3130.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3130.6640937500006,"end":3132.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3132.90846875,"end":3133.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3134.7647187500006,"end":3136.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3137.2959687500006,"end":3138.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3143.6747187500005,"end":3144.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3145.63221875,"end":3146.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3146.8134687500005,"end":3148.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3155.3015937500004,"end":3155.6222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3155.7403437500006,"end":3156.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3157.44471875,"end":3159.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3167.33346875,"end":3168.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3169.49346875,"end":3172.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3173.17221875,"end":3175.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3175.7372187500005,"end":3176.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3182.7740937500002,"end":3184.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3186.1659687500005,"end":3199.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3200.89784375,"end":3201.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3202.3828437500006,"end":3204.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3205.35284375,"end":3206.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3208.0359687500004,"end":3209.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3209.99346875,"end":3211.39409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":0.094,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":1870.461,"end":1872.609,"text":"好,報告委員會以足法定人數現在開始開會請先讀上次會議事錄"},{"start":1875.851,"end":1894.795,"text":"立法院程序委員會第11屆第2會期第6次會議議事錄時間中華民國113年10月29日星期二中午12時1分至30分地點紅樓201會議室出席委員 翁委員 小兵等19人主席吳委員 宗憲 包事項一 宣讀本院本會第11屆第2會期第5次會議議事錄決定確定 決定事項一 審定本院第11屆第2會期第7次會議議事稱包事項 主席事項第8案"},{"start":1904.618,"end":1926.772,"text":"提案委員來韓策會予以刪除其餘一國民黨黨團翁委員小林提案原列第37案及第63案增列第35案至第45案暫緩列案其餘均照議程草案及增列報告事項通過今天院長 主席長 財政部部長國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告114年"},{"start":1928.073,"end":1947.645,"text":"莊政府總議專案及莊政府前瞻基礎建設計劃第5期特別預算案編制經過並被質詢2.請願案件1.含送本院相關委員會審查公二案2.依請願法第4條之規定系屬應提起訴訟之事項未便受理含附請願人公二案3.依立法院職權請願法第65條規定含轉權責機關處理進付並複製請願人公六案其他事項"},{"start":1954.665,"end":1960.12,"text":"1.國民擔黨團來韓撤回前宋制全民防衛動員準備法修正草案宣布完畢"},{"start":2237.219,"end":2239.703,"text":"來對不起我們休息休息1分鐘好不好休息1分鐘"},{"start":2464.295,"end":2469.939,"text":"好,那我們繼續開會齁剛剛這個就議事錄宣讀,請問有遺漏或錯誤之處沒有齁,我們議事錄確定接下來請宣讀報告事項及執行事項"},{"start":2477.932,"end":2495.983,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程草案 時間 中華民國113年11月8日星期五、11月12日星期二、上午9時至下午6時 地點本院議場 報告事項一 宣讀本院第11屆第2會期第7次會議議事錄 二至七委員張雅玲等一具內政部國土管理署組織法 交司法及法制內政兩委員會審查 運動部組織法 運動部村民運動署組織法"},{"start":2499.025,"end":2519.812,"text":"教育部組織法 教育部國民及學前教育署組織法 廢止教育部體育署組織法 交由司法及法制教育及文化兩委員會審查8至12委員業人之等禮具 文化資產保存法 技術及職業教育法 交由教育及文化委員會審查 廢止行政院農業委員會動植物防疫檢疫局所屬各分局組織通則 廢止行政院農業委員會漁業署組織條例 交由司法及法制經濟兩委員會審查"},{"start":2521.292,"end":2542.464,"text":"社會救助法交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查13委員鍾嘉斌等你具毒品危害防治條例交司法及法治委員會審查14至16委員陳玉珍等你具貨物稅條例使用牌照稅法菸酒稅法交財政委員會審查17至19委員羅志強等你具癌症防治法老人福利法社會救助法交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查20至28委員盧賓喆等你具貨物稅條例交財政委員會審查"},{"start":2545.686,"end":2560.819,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例 交交通委員會審查 強迫入學條例 文化資產保存法 交交易及文化委員會審查長期照顧服務法 勞動基準法 職業安全衛生法 兒童及少年福利與權益保障法 就業服務法 交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查"},{"start":2562.491,"end":2590.419,"text":"29.委員圖圈級等擬具國土計劃法交內政委員會審查30-31委員黃鴻威等擬具運動產業發展條例交教育及文化委員會審查外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查32.委員翁曉琳等擬具紀念日及節日實施條例交內政委員會審查33-35委員高金素梅等擬具原住民保留地淨法補償條例交內政經濟兩委員會審查地方制度法交內政司法及法治兩委員會審查"},{"start":2591.519,"end":2607.401,"text":"老公退休金條例交社會不利及衛生環境委員會審查36委員徐曉新你撤回民防法你請願會同意撤回37委員陳金輝你撤回反歧視法你請願會同意撤回38行政院韓送公平交易委員會委員提名名單請同意案交經濟司法及法治兩委員會審查"},{"start":2609.702,"end":2632.788,"text":"內政部﹑經濟部﹑農業部﹑財政部﹑教育部﹑文化部﹑行政院﹑交通部﹑通傳會﹑司法院﹑全序部﹑法務部﹑衛福部﹑退府會﹑勞動部﹑環境部等含送書面資料交相關委員會司法及法治委員會含為院會交付事項業業審查處理完略請查照案社會福利及衛生環境委員會含為於年度預算執行期間及決算法審議期限請查照案"},{"start":2635.927,"end":2655.696,"text":"82-85交通內政等委員會含位於行政命令審查極限請查照案國民黨黨團體陣列一委員葛如軍等你具老青年基本法交交易解文化委員會審查二十四委員邱若驊等你具老人福利法醫治法藥食法交社會福利及溫泉環境委員會審查五至六委員林思明等你具今年以節日實施條例交內政委員會審查道路交通管理處法條例交交通委員會審查"},{"start":2656.916,"end":2680.245,"text":"7.委員林健齊等你局勞工保險條例交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查8.委員李彥秀等你局地方制度法交內政司法及法治兩委員會審查9.委員馬文君等你局貨物稅條例交財政委員會審查10至17委員鄭天才等你局中央行政機關組織基準法交司法及法治委員會審查行政院組織法交司法及法治委員會審查國家運動訓練中心設置條例教育部組織法國家運動科學中心設置條例"},{"start":2681.847,"end":2692.83,"text":"國家運動產業發展中心設置條例 運動部組織法 運動部全民運動組組織法 教育局文化 兩委員會審查民進黨黨團體陣列18至19委員吳世堯等你去運動部組織法 運動部全民運動組組織法 教育局文化 兩委員會審查20至23委員陳冠廷等你去運動部組織法 教育部組織法 教育局文化 兩委員會審查行政院組織法 中央行政機關組織基準法 教育局文化 兩委員會審查"},{"start":2708.773,"end":2732.154,"text":"24至29委員李坤誠等擬具中華民國刑法民法交司法及法制委員會審查進行基本法不依依職保存條例交教育及文化委員會審查文化藝術講述及促進條例交教育及文化財政兩委員會審查威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回覆條例交內政委員會審查35委員沈柏洋等擬具臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例交內政委員會審查31委員李柏毅等擬具立法院議事規則交司法及法制委員會審查"},{"start":2733.155,"end":2755.468,"text":"三十二至四十二 委員沈博洋等 委員黃潔等 委員郭玉琴等 委員張宏祿等 委員詹雅琳等 委員林月琴等 委員李柏毅等 委員吳秉瑞等 委員陳培育等 委員蔡奕宇等 委員林益勤等分別履去臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例交內政委員會審查四十三 委員吳秉瑞擬撤回公民投票法 擬請委員會同意撤回四十四 行政院考訓 含情審議 中央行政機關組織基準法交 設法及法治委員會審查四十五至一一八"},{"start":2756.553,"end":2769.84,"text":"行政院考試院內政部海委會海洋會通傳會速發部法務部金管會勞動部衛福部環境部工程會交通部外交部國防部等含送書面資料交相關委員會臺灣民眾黨黨團提議陣列119至121臺灣民眾黨黨團擬據產業創新條例交經濟財政兩委會審查內政部新住民主"},{"start":2776.324,"end":2796.721,"text":"發展署 組織法 交 司法及法制 內政 兩委員會審查政府採購法 交 交通委員會審查委員範圍提議增列122至126 委員範圍等你舉行政院組織法 交 司法及法制 委員會審查教育部組織法 國家運動訓練中心設置條例國家運動科學中心設置條例國家語言研究發展中心設置條例交 司法及法制 教育及文化 兩委員會審查資訊事項宣讀完畢"},{"start":2811.189,"end":2821.625,"text":"好我們宣讀完畢報告事項宣讀完畢及執行事項宣讀完畢現在我們請登記委員發言首先我們請登記第一位請王委員正續發言"},{"start":2834.857,"end":2850.864,"text":"主席 各位委員安遊 針對第11屆第2會期第8次會議議程報告事項 質詢事項 建請照議事日程草案及甄列報告事項通過提案人 民族進步黨 立法院黨團"},{"start":2856.879,"end":2860.161,"text":"先讀完畢及發言之後再行一併處理接下來請宣讀討論事項"},{"start":2875.41,"end":2903.478,"text":"討論事項一本院國民黨黨團建請院會作成決議本院針對再生能源發展弊案成立調查委員會緊述釐清真相查清相關失職人員責任擅近國會監督職責是否有當請供決案二本院委員黃建豪羅廷偉牛許廷萬美玲柯志恩王玉敏廖偉祥陳金輝羅志強游浩張士倫等11人建請院會作成決議中央政府應先統計全國超過50年以上老舊校舍數及所需拆除從前經費並得以編列特別運算方式於8年內完成之是否有當請供決案三"},{"start":2904.378,"end":2926.49,"text":"本院臺灣民眾黨黨團建請委員會作成決議為維護國會尊嚴和為國家憲政體制對行政院長卓榮泰提出嚴厲制譴責案是否有當請公決案4.國家通訊傳播委員會組織法修正案5.本院臺灣民眾黨黨團針對總統知情本院行使考試院第14屆院長副院長及考試委員被提名人同意全案提出審查事成是否有當請公決案宣讀完畢"},{"start":2929.551,"end":2958.483,"text":"好那我們現在請登記委員發言首先請登記第一位王委員正續發言好謝謝主席主席各位委員案由針對第11第11屆第2會期第8次會議議程討論事項建請針對下表所內疑案是否有當敬請公決"},{"start":2963.908,"end":2968.993,"text":"好我們請議事委員待會宣讀好接下來我們請登記第二位吳委員中線發言"},{"start":2992.752,"end":3004.438,"text":"謝謝主席本院國民黨黨團針對第11屆第2會期第8次會議議事日程草案 敬請送院會處理是否有當 敬請公決好 那我們這個登記委員已經發言完畢我們現在進行處理那在這裡跟這個委員會報告 這個"},{"start":3023.555,"end":3046.53,"text":"原本大家是希望說協商是不是今天不要確定議程不過因為我個人認為這個我們程序委員會確定議程是我們程序委員會的職責上次大家基於政黨協商上次有一次沒有確定議程送大會我個人還是希望說我們程序委員會能夠確定議程"},{"start":3047.891,"end":3068.922,"text":"因此今天國民黨黨團有正式提案就是把今天院會議程到禮拜五的大會來處理那我們現在就針對這個我們提案的提案來進行處理那我們先提案先處理所以這個報告事項及討論事項對於這個王正旭委員的提議請問有無異議"},{"start":3071.837,"end":3077.041,"text":"好有異議齁那我們現在進行進行表決請清點在場人數在場人數18人贊成王正旭委員提案的請舉手反對王正旭委員提案的請舉手"},{"start":3104.278,"end":3128.284,"text":"好 那我們贊成王委員提案的8人反對王委員提案的10人這個贊成者少數不通過那接著我們繼續處理吳宗憲委員提案請問針對吳宗憲委員提案有無異議有沒有異議有齁 有"},{"start":3129.349,"end":3137.695,"text":"有沒有異議阿 有 有 有沒有聽到有異議齁那我們現在進行處理請清廉在場人數在場人數18人贊成五委員中線提案的請舉手"},{"start":3155.873,"end":3176.642,"text":"好,贊成者10位反對吳委員中線提案的請舉手好,反對者8位那我們這個決議贊成者多數我們通過我們就把本次議程草案提報院會處理好,接下來請宣讀人民請願案"},{"start":3186.209,"end":3198.835,"text":"人民請願案一含送保養會審查者供二案二一請願法第4條規定稀釋引起訴訟之事項供一案三一立法院執行法第6處條第二項規定含轉機關處理近負責供私案宣論並好請問有無異議沒有異議我們人民請願案我們通過請問有無臨時動議沒有沒有本次會議進行到此為止現在散會謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"16227","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16227","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609f5bf31e53d7c13d0ad9f551ce5fa921f083084566cc2bdb4408cc4339bb0eb475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-05","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-05T08:30:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T20:05:00+08:00","duration":41685,"影片長度":"11:34:45","委員發言時間":"08:30:15 - 20:05:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1794.6534687500002,"end":1808.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1829.43284375,"end":1829.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1838.0559687500001,"end":1839.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1839.4059687500003,"end":1840.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1841.0934687500003,"end":1842.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1842.6290937500003,"end":1844.7215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1844.8734687500003,"end":1845.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1845.9197187500001,"end":1847.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1848.6365937500002,"end":1849.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1859.8415937500001,"end":1860.4490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1861.1747187500002,"end":1861.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1862.1197187500002,"end":1864.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1864.4990937500002,"end":1865.5453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1866.3047187500001,"end":1868.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1868.97096875,"end":1878.1847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1878.52221875,"end":1891.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1891.5665937500003,"end":1900.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1900.4765937500001,"end":1902.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1903.27784375,"end":1905.7247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1905.9778437500001,"end":1908.2728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1909.0828437500002,"end":1938.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1939.8122187500003,"end":1940.5884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1941.5840937500002,"end":1943.3222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1943.5247187500001,"end":1948.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1949.5659687500001,"end":1953.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1954.0884687500002,"end":1955.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1955.4215937500003,"end":1961.4290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1961.5978437500003,"end":1964.5678437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1964.87159375,"end":1966.3734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1966.7109687500001,"end":1969.1915937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1969.4615937500002,"end":1972.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1972.73534375,"end":1973.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1973.71409375,"end":1974.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1975.0472187500002,"end":1976.1609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1976.4140937500001,"end":1977.1903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1977.2915937500002,"end":1978.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1978.9115937500003,"end":1988.7159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1987.50096875,"end":1988.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1989.0197187500003,"end":1990.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1989.9309687500001,"end":1992.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1993.2890937500001,"end":1993.3734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1993.3734687500003,"end":1993.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1994.3353437500002,"end":1994.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":1994.3522187500002,"end":1994.3690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1994.3690937500003,"end":1995.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1996.4278437500002,"end":1997.9803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1997.0184687500002,"end":1998.7397187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1998.8578437500003,"end":2000.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2000.5453437500003,"end":2002.7728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2000.6128437500001,"end":2001.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2001.7265937500001,"end":2001.7772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2003.3465937500002,"end":2010.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2010.8053437500002,"end":2010.8390937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2011.4803437500002,"end":2011.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2011.96971875,"end":2016.8634687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2013.2690937500001,"end":2013.8934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2016.9140937500001,"end":2020.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2020.3397187500002,"end":2026.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2024.91284375,"end":2034.1772187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2027.3934687500002,"end":2028.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2034.2784687500002,"end":2039.6278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2036.4047187500003,"end":2037.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2038.3115937500002,"end":2045.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2039.7797187500003,"end":2041.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2041.5684687500002,"end":2041.8722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2045.1797187500001,"end":2046.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2046.85034375,"end":2054.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2054.4440937500003,"end":2054.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2054.79846875,"end":2054.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2054.8828437500006,"end":2054.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2054.89971875,"end":2055.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2055.0515937500004,"end":2056.3340937499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2055.1022187500002,"end":2061.8184687499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":2061.8690937500005,"end":2061.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2061.90284375,"end":2062.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2062.1728437500005,"end":2065.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2065.6490937500002,"end":2068.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2068.88909375,"end":2072.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2072.4159687500005,"end":2085.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2085.4772187500002,"end":2090.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2090.82659375,"end":2091.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2092.46346875,"end":2103.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2104.2928437500004,"end":2105.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2105.7272187500002,"end":2106.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2108.84909375,"end":2109.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2109.03471875,"end":2109.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2109.9628437500005,"end":2110.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2110.0303437500006,"end":2110.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2110.95846875,"end":2110.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2110.9922187500006,"end":2111.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2112.17346875,"end":2116.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2115.16034375,"end":2118.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2116.62846875,"end":2117.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2118.06284375,"end":2125.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2125.30221875,"end":2134.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2134.98846875,"end":2135.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2135.12346875,"end":2138.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2138.4647187500004,"end":2139.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2140.2703437500004,"end":2144.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2145.4678437500006,"end":2161.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2161.0603437500004,"end":2165.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2165.02596875,"end":2187.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2168.73846875,"end":2169.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2188.1784687500003,"end":2196.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2196.22784375,"end":2203.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2203.3828437500006,"end":2210.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2210.8584687500006,"end":2217.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2217.37221875,"end":2233.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2234.1628437500003,"end":2234.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2235.4453437500006,"end":2236.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2237.45346875,"end":2239.4109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2239.86659375,"end":2258.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2259.39096875,"end":2266.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2267.1365937500004,"end":2271.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2272.60409375,"end":2276.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2276.8397187500004,"end":2280.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2280.83909375,"end":2281.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2282.22284375,"end":2284.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2284.6022187500002,"end":2285.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2286.34034375,"end":2294.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2294.77784375,"end":2298.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2299.58721875,"end":2303.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2303.92409375,"end":2307.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2308.15971875,"end":2309.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2309.2734687500006,"end":2313.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2313.6609687500004,"end":2314.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2314.9940937500005,"end":2317.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2317.72784375,"end":2318.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2319.5165937500005,"end":2327.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2328.27471875,"end":2330.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2330.6034687500005,"end":2334.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2334.3328437500004,"end":2335.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2335.91909375,"end":2338.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2338.9228437500005,"end":2339.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2339.8847187500005,"end":2345.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2345.57159375,"end":2352.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2353.0303437500006,"end":2353.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2354.12721875,"end":2354.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2355.3084687500004,"end":2357.2322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2357.8397187500004,"end":2360.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2360.80971875,"end":2372.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2373.6178437500002,"end":2378.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2379.2372187500005,"end":2390.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2390.71221875,"end":2394.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2395.42034375,"end":2409.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2409.62909375,"end":2418.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2418.67409375,"end":2421.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2421.3740937500006,"end":2426.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2427.06096875,"end":2429.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2429.94659375,"end":2432.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2432.79846875,"end":2434.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2434.6884687500005,"end":2435.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2436.20721875,"end":2436.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2437.89471875,"end":2440.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2441.0840937500006,"end":2446.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2447.29409375,"end":2447.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2448.52596875,"end":2452.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2452.74471875,"end":2463.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2463.8990937500002,"end":2468.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2469.8053437500002,"end":2470.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2470.4128437500003,"end":2474.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2474.96909375,"end":2480.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2481.04409375,"end":2485.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2487.0009687500005,"end":2517.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2517.7303437500004,"end":2523.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2524.63221875,"end":2528.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2529.27284375,"end":2530.3359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2530.8084687500004,"end":2532.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2533.3903437500003,"end":2546.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2547.36284375,"end":2551.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2552.3240937500004,"end":2574.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2575.0547187500006,"end":2577.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2579.0372187500006,"end":2582.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2582.56409375,"end":2585.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2585.51721875,"end":2589.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2589.65159375,"end":2594.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2594.8828437500006,"end":2597.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2598.7303437500004,"end":2599.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2600.1309687500006,"end":2606.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2606.7459687500004,"end":2607.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2608.3828437500006,"end":2608.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2608.9228437500005,"end":2611.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2612.43284375,"end":2618.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2618.8622187500005,"end":2619.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2620.0097187500005,"end":2624.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2625.0215937500006,"end":2627.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2627.56971875,"end":2637.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2638.4034687500007,"end":2645.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2645.6090937500003,"end":2647.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2648.59596875,"end":2655.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2656.2234687500004,"end":2660.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2660.71221875,"end":2662.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2662.70346875,"end":2666.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2666.3990937500002,"end":2671.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2672.1872187500003,"end":2685.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2686.37909375,"end":2690.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2690.37846875,"end":2692.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2693.21346875,"end":2703.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2704.0303437500006,"end":2708.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2709.22784375,"end":2710.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2710.62846875,"end":2713.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2713.1259687500005,"end":2713.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2713.9022187500004,"end":2713.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2713.9190937500007,"end":2731.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2731.3678437500002,"end":2746.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2747.14596875,"end":2749.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2749.84596875,"end":2754.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2754.97596875,"end":2758.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2759.1778437500006,"end":2761.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2762.19846875,"end":2763.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":2768.3747187500003,"end":2768.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2796.15096875,"end":2799.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2802.29346875,"end":2805.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2829.88409375,"end":2834.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2835.36846875,"end":2835.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2838.03471875,"end":2838.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2839.94159375,"end":2841.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2841.57846875,"end":2842.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2843.19846875,"end":2843.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2844.7509687500005,"end":2844.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2845.6622187500006,"end":2846.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2856.10784375,"end":2857.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2856.34409375,"end":2856.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2857.3903437500003,"end":2858.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2858.57159375,"end":2859.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2859.53346875,"end":2866.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2867.97096875,"end":2868.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2868.62909375,"end":2869.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2869.5740937500004,"end":2869.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2869.9453437500006,"end":2872.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2872.84784375,"end":2872.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2873.6240937500006,"end":2874.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2874.0965937500005,"end":2876.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2876.1553437500006,"end":2877.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2877.92721875,"end":2880.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2880.74534375,"end":2881.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2883.41159375,"end":2885.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2885.4365937500006,"end":2890.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2890.51596875,"end":2894.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2894.49846875,"end":2894.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2895.3590937500003,"end":2897.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2898.2615937500004,"end":2900.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2901.0965937500005,"end":2911.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2912.09909375,"end":2915.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2915.84534375,"end":2916.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2916.80721875,"end":2917.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2918.3934687500005,"end":2918.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2918.49471875,"end":2918.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2918.5284687500007,"end":2920.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2921.49846875,"end":2923.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2923.23659375,"end":2926.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2928.0459687500006,"end":2941.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2936.9559687500005,"end":2938.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2940.71909375,"end":2945.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2945.5284687500007,"end":2948.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2949.22409375,"end":2969.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2952.05909375,"end":2952.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2969.7272187500002,"end":2974.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2975.78534375,"end":2977.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2978.6034687500005,"end":2992.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2985.1847187500007,"end":2985.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2988.52596875,"end":2988.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2993.3522187500002,"end":2993.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2994.9890937500004,"end":2995.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2996.47409375,"end":2997.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2998.04346875,"end":3012.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3002.5322187500005,"end":3002.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":3002.54909375,"end":3002.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3002.85284375,"end":3002.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3011.54346875,"end":3032.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3034.0547187500006,"end":3034.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3034.91534375,"end":3039.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3038.42534375,"end":3046.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3047.1328437500006,"end":3048.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3048.5672187500004,"end":3049.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3050.2547187500004,"end":3052.2628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3052.70159375,"end":3059.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3058.43909375,"end":3070.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3060.3122187500003,"end":3062.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3070.0828437500004,"end":3086.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3075.0778437500003,"end":3075.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3086.62034375,"end":3092.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3092.72909375,"end":3097.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3097.11659375,"end":3099.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3099.64784375,"end":3118.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3118.7840937500005,"end":3119.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3119.94846875,"end":3122.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3122.5303437500006,"end":3125.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3125.55096875,"end":3129.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3130.56284375,"end":3136.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3133.2459687500004,"end":3133.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3137.02596875,"end":3138.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3138.5615937500006,"end":3143.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3143.40471875,"end":3150.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3143.5059687500006,"end":3144.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3151.2009687500004,"end":3162.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3164.78534375,"end":3166.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3167.50221875,"end":3168.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3168.05909375,"end":3168.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3168.0928437500006,"end":3168.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3168.2615937500004,"end":3171.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3170.87721875,"end":3172.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3173.52659375,"end":3178.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3178.5553437500002,"end":3180.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3180.22596875,"end":3187.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3181.8122187500003,"end":3181.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3185.33909375,"end":3194.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3195.48096875,"end":3196.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3196.91534375,"end":3206.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3207.1415937500005,"end":3209.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3210.8878437500007,"end":3212.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3213.1659687500005,"end":3213.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3214.51596875,"end":3217.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3217.65471875,"end":3218.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3219.4772187500002,"end":3220.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3220.55721875,"end":3222.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3222.66659375,"end":3224.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3226.15971875,"end":3227.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3227.6278437500005,"end":3241.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3237.12846875,"end":3239.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3239.64284375,"end":3243.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3243.74346875,"end":3253.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3245.6503437500005,"end":3246.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3253.76721875,"end":3256.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3254.6784687500003,"end":3259.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3256.53471875,"end":3256.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3259.7409687500003,"end":3290.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3291.12846875,"end":3295.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3292.79909375,"end":3300.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3300.7809687500003,"end":3305.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3305.3034687500003,"end":3305.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3305.9278437500006,"end":3314.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3314.9053437500006,"end":3316.6603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3319.1072187500004,"end":3320.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3320.6765937500004,"end":3328.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3328.8103437500004,"end":3336.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3336.57284375,"end":3337.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3336.6065937500007,"end":3339.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3339.1715937500003,"end":3340.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3340.36971875,"end":3341.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3342.0909687500007,"end":3344.0822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3345.4490937500004,"end":3346.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3347.0353437500007,"end":3348.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3349.22909375,"end":3350.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3350.84909375,"end":3353.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3354.15659375,"end":3356.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3357.12659375,"end":3360.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3361.21034375,"end":3362.2228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3363.8259687500004,"end":3368.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3368.01096875,"end":3370.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3368.2303437500004,"end":3369.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3370.2384687500007,"end":3378.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3378.3722187500007,"end":3380.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3380.92034375,"end":3381.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3381.64596875,"end":3382.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3382.97909375,"end":3388.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3388.76721875,"end":3392.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3391.88909375,"end":3391.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3391.9059687500003,"end":3392.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3392.66534375,"end":3393.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3393.50909375,"end":3395.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3395.8884687500004,"end":3397.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3397.67721875,"end":3398.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3399.0947187500005,"end":3403.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3399.3815937500003,"end":3399.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3403.3134687500005,"end":3406.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3405.9122187500006,"end":3409.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3406.90784375,"end":3407.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3409.7090937500006,"end":3426.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3414.07971875,"end":3418.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3426.7697187500007,"end":3470.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3466.9490937500004,"end":3475.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3472.51784375,"end":3473.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3475.2178437500006,"end":3476.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3475.4540937500005,"end":3480.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3480.3478437500007,"end":3488.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3488.4140937500006,"end":3491.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3488.97096875,"end":3489.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3492.46409375,"end":3494.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3493.51034375,"end":3509.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3498.55596875,"end":3499.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3501.8465937500005,"end":3503.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3509.71034375,"end":3511.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3511.3134687500005,"end":3513.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3513.7265937500006,"end":3516.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3517.2703437500004,"end":3518.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3519.4303437500002,"end":3527.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3527.1590937500005,"end":3532.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3532.25534375,"end":3552.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3535.63034375,"end":3537.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3552.9440937500003,"end":3563.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3563.52471875,"end":3572.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3566.30909375,"end":3581.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3580.1297187500004,"end":3586.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3586.49159375,"end":3592.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3592.9040937500004,"end":3595.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3593.0897187500004,"end":3594.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3595.0134687500004,"end":3595.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3595.5703437500006,"end":3596.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3597.3084687500004,"end":3599.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3599.02971875,"end":3605.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3605.4928437500002,"end":3610.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3611.2978437500005,"end":3613.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3612.2597187500005,"end":3618.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3619.1447187500007,"end":3620.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3621.1022187500002,"end":3621.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3622.4522187500006,"end":3623.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3623.44784375,"end":3628.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3627.5822187500007,"end":3628.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3628.2909687500005,"end":3632.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3631.8515937500006,"end":3633.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3633.1678437500004,"end":3634.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3634.0622187500003,"end":3640.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3635.90159375,"end":3645.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3645.97596875,"end":3647.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3648.3722187500007,"end":3649.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3649.5028437500005,"end":3652.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3652.8272187500006,"end":3653.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3654.3797187500004,"end":3655.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3656.4384687500005,"end":3657.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3658.1765937500004,"end":3662.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3662.7665937500005,"end":3668.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3668.70659375,"end":3675.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3676.2159687500007,"end":3679.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3679.77659375,"end":3683.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3684.18096875,"end":3684.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3685.86846875,"end":3690.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3687.20159375,"end":3691.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3691.2853437500007,"end":3697.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3695.5040937500007,"end":3698.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3698.33909375,"end":3699.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3699.9422187500004,"end":3701.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3700.3640937500004,"end":3702.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3702.4228437500005,"end":3703.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3703.3340937500006,"end":3707.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3705.4265937500004,"end":3710.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3708.3122187500003,"end":3708.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3709.79721875,"end":3709.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":3709.9659687500007,"end":3710.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3710.03346875,"end":3710.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":3710.0672187500004,"end":3710.3709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3710.3709687500004,"end":3710.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3710.9615937500002,"end":3716.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3717.08721875,"end":3721.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3717.7115937500002,"end":3719.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3722.1834687500004,"end":3729.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3728.8322187500007,"end":3732.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3732.5109687500008,"end":3733.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3734.56971875,"end":3736.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3736.7297187500008,"end":3739.2609687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3737.4890937500004,"end":3743.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3739.7165937500004,"end":3742.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3743.8340937500006,"end":3746.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3745.9265937500004,"end":3748.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3749.33534375,"end":3750.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3751.37721875,"end":3752.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3752.6090937500003,"end":3755.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3755.5115937500004,"end":3756.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3756.2878437500003,"end":3758.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3772.89284375,"end":3776.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3780.13221875,"end":3782.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3785.2790937500004,"end":3788.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3803.45346875,"end":3810.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3811.5534687500003,"end":3814.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3815.2322187500004,"end":3820.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3815.40096875,"end":3815.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3820.02471875,"end":3820.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3820.2440937500005,"end":3820.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3820.3790937500007,"end":3822.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3827.8209687500002,"end":3828.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3829.74471875,"end":3830.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3830.87534375,"end":3831.7697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3832.63034375,"end":3833.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3833.9128437500003,"end":3836.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3837.08534375,"end":3838.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3839.07659375,"end":3843.5822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3844.62846875,"end":3845.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3845.9784687500005,"end":3848.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3849.15096875,"end":3849.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3850.0622187500003,"end":3850.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3851.5134687500004,"end":3856.2384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3856.5759687500004,"end":3858.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3858.97221875,"end":3862.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3862.9209687500006,"end":3867.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3868.3209687500002,"end":3871.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3871.4597187500003,"end":3873.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3873.9403437500005,"end":3874.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3875.5772187500006,"end":3876.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":3876.9103437500007,"end":3878.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3877.9059687500003,"end":3878.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3879.08721875,"end":3881.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3881.3653437500006,"end":3883.5253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3883.8965937500006,"end":3885.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3885.95534375,"end":3886.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3886.5459687500006,"end":3887.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3887.47409375,"end":3890.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3890.78159375,"end":3894.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3894.6628437500003,"end":3899.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3899.87721875,"end":3903.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3903.2859687500004,"end":3904.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3904.5684687500006,"end":3908.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":3909.5128437500007,"end":3919.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3919.8234687500008,"end":3924.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":3924.2109687500006,"end":3932.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3929.05409375,"end":3932.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3932.2265937500006,"end":3941.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3941.4403437500005,"end":3952.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3952.7634687500004,"end":3952.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3953.4215937500003,"end":3953.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3953.45534375,"end":3954.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3954.9909687500003,"end":3955.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3955.1259687500005,"end":3958.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3959.3447187500005,"end":3962.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3962.6522187500004,"end":3973.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3973.9753437500003,"end":3974.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3974.8359687500006,"end":3974.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3974.85284375,"end":3978.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3978.8015937500004,"end":3980.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3980.4384687500005,"end":3982.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3982.7334687500006,"end":3984.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3985.34909375,"end":3989.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3989.5847187500003,"end":3991.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3992.1834687500004,"end":4007.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4007.6747187500005,"end":4007.6915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4008.3834687500002,"end":4016.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4015.25159375,"end":4016.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4017.41159375,"end":4017.6984687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4018.62659375,"end":4022.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4022.4909687500003,"end":4024.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4024.8365937500002,"end":4031.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4031.9747187500006,"end":4034.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4034.40471875,"end":4036.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4037.17221875,"end":4037.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4037.9147187500002,"end":4043.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4044.83346875,"end":4045.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4045.67721875,"end":4048.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4048.8328437500004,"end":4049.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4050.38534375,"end":4052.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4052.3428437500006,"end":4055.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4055.49846875,"end":4058.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4058.87346875,"end":4062.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4062.60284375,"end":4064.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4065.15096875,"end":4068.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4069.1672187500008,"end":4069.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4070.2303437500004,"end":4073.3859687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4073.6728437500005,"end":4074.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4075.14096875,"end":4077.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4078.4822187500004,"end":4079.4103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4079.8153437500005,"end":4082.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4082.6334687500002,"end":4084.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4084.2872187500006,"end":4086.2615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4086.4978437500004,"end":4087.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4088.6072187500004,"end":4089.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4089.5859687500006,"end":4090.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4090.9022187500004,"end":4090.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4090.9190937500007,"end":4092.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4090.93596875,"end":4092.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4092.7584687500002,"end":4093.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4093.8722187500007,"end":4094.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4094.2772187500004,"end":4094.2940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4094.4122187500006,"end":4095.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4096.15034375,"end":4098.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4100.706593749999,"end":4100.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4100.74034375,"end":4101.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4101.7528437500005,"end":4102.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4101.80346875,"end":4102.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4102.74846875,"end":4105.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4105.077218750001,"end":4105.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4105.9715937500005,"end":4106.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4106.005343750001,"end":4110.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4110.780968749999,"end":4114.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4114.89846875,"end":4119.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4119.454718749999,"end":4120.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4120.70346875,"end":4121.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4122.07034375,"end":4123.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4123.302218750001,"end":4125.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4127.149718750001,"end":4127.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4127.87534375,"end":4128.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4128.9384687500005,"end":4136.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4136.380343750001,"end":4137.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4137.780968749999,"end":4142.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4143.045968750001,"end":4148.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4149.374093750001,"end":4150.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4150.50471875,"end":4152.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4152.61409375,"end":4153.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4153.862843749999,"end":4156.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4158.01409375,"end":4167.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4167.970343749999,"end":4169.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4169.06721875,"end":4169.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4169.3709687499995,"end":4169.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4169.387843750001,"end":4173.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4173.876593749999,"end":4177.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4177.825343750001,"end":4184.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4184.64284375,"end":4185.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4186.09409375,"end":4188.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4188.05159375,"end":4189.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4189.51971875,"end":4190.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4191.089093750001,"end":4192.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4192.52346875,"end":4193.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4194.126593749999,"end":4194.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4196.100968750001,"end":4196.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4196.6747187500005,"end":4197.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4197.130343750001,"end":4197.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4197.6365937499995,"end":4201.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4199.3915937500005,"end":4199.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4199.44221875,"end":4199.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4199.796593749999,"end":4200.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4201.872218750001,"end":4206.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4206.968468749999,"end":4207.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4208.571593750001,"end":4211.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4212.368468750001,"end":4213.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4213.448468750001,"end":4223.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4223.59034375,"end":4224.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4225.14284375,"end":4227.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4227.75846875,"end":4229.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4230.458468750001,"end":4230.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4231.200968749999,"end":4232.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4233.546593749999,"end":4233.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4233.934718750001,"end":4234.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4234.03596875,"end":4234.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4234.069718750001,"end":4234.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4234.13721875,"end":4234.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4234.18784375,"end":4234.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4234.204718749999,"end":4234.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4234.37346875,"end":4234.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4234.491593750001,"end":4234.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4234.592843750001,"end":4234.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4234.69409375,"end":4237.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4235.0653437500005,"end":4237.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4238.50784375,"end":4239.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4239.57096875,"end":4240.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4241.17409375,"end":4242.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4243.401593750001,"end":4245.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4245.10596875,"end":4245.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4246.0340937500005,"end":4247.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4248.43034375,"end":4251.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4251.889718750001,"end":4254.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4254.977843750001,"end":4257.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4258.09971875,"end":4263.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4264.74846875,"end":4267.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4266.38534375,"end":4267.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4267.78596875,"end":4270.300343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4270.97534375,"end":4270.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4270.99221875,"end":4271.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4272.20721875,"end":4273.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4273.60784375,"end":4275.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4275.76784375,"end":4277.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4278.01221875,"end":4279.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4280.35784375,"end":4281.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4281.842843750001,"end":4283.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4284.20534375,"end":4287.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4287.15846875,"end":4290.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4291.5965937500005,"end":4292.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4292.59221875,"end":4292.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4293.72284375,"end":4296.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4296.20346875,"end":4297.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4297.51971875,"end":4298.144093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4298.5322187500005,"end":4299.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4300.725968750001,"end":4302.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4302.76784375,"end":4304.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4304.657843749999,"end":4306.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4306.3622187500005,"end":4306.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4306.767218749999,"end":4307.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4307.999093750001,"end":4310.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4310.83409375,"end":4311.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4311.509093750001,"end":4311.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4311.71159375,"end":4311.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4311.795968750001,"end":4313.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4313.854718750001,"end":4314.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4315.94721875,"end":4319.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4318.529093749999,"end":4319.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4319.997218750001,"end":4321.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4322.30909375,"end":4325.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4325.73471875,"end":4327.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4327.74284375,"end":4328.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4328.940968749999,"end":4335.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4328.95784375,"end":4330.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4330.341593749999,"end":4330.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4335.977843750001,"end":4340.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4340.753468749999,"end":4344.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4344.98909375,"end":4345.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4345.03971875,"end":4350.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4350.33846875,"end":4351.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4352.144093749999,"end":4354.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4354.70909375,"end":4358.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4358.472218749999,"end":4360.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4360.4803437499995,"end":4362.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4362.75846875,"end":4363.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4364.192843750001,"end":4365.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4365.67784375,"end":4366.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4367.02784375,"end":4370.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4370.03159375,"end":4370.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4370.9090937500005,"end":4374.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4374.75659375,"end":4377.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4377.99659375,"end":4378.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4378.013468749999,"end":4383.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4383.734093749999,"end":4386.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4386.687218749999,"end":4388.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4388.72909375,"end":4390.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4390.97346875,"end":4391.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4391.614718750001,"end":4392.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4394.382218750001,"end":4394.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4394.73659375,"end":4395.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4395.546593749999,"end":4397.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4397.30159375,"end":4401.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4401.14909375,"end":4402.347218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4402.532843749999,"end":4403.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4403.950343750001,"end":4404.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4404.794093750001,"end":4405.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4405.722218749999,"end":4406.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4406.481593750001,"end":4408.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4408.725968750001,"end":4409.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4410.19409375,"end":4410.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4410.90284375,"end":4411.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4412.32034375,"end":4414.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4415.02034375,"end":4416.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4416.48846875,"end":4417.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4417.75409375,"end":4418.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4418.46284375,"end":4420.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4421.044718749999,"end":4427.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4426.32659375,"end":4427.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4427.609093749999,"end":4427.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4427.96346875,"end":4429.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4429.41471875,"end":4430.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4429.43159375,"end":4430.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4430.25846875,"end":4430.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4430.30909375,"end":4430.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4430.3934687500005,"end":4432.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4430.427218750001,"end":4430.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":4432.46909375,"end":4432.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4433.07659375,"end":4434.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4435.00034375,"end":4437.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4438.00409375,"end":4440.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4441.51409375,"end":4442.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4442.44221875,"end":4443.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4444.18034375,"end":4449.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4450.019093749999,"end":4450.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4450.05284375,"end":4453.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4453.51221875,"end":4456.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4457.106593750001,"end":4459.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4460.81909375,"end":4461.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4461.696593750001,"end":4468.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4466.69159375,"end":4473.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4468.46346875,"end":4468.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4474.302218750001,"end":4480.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4481.153468750001,"end":4483.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":4484.20784375,"end":4492.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4488.3759687500005,"end":4493.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4495.024718750001,"end":4495.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4496.425343749999,"end":4497.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4497.80909375,"end":4497.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4498.23096875,"end":4499.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4499.88471875,"end":4503.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":4500.52596875,"end":4500.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":4501.8084687499995,"end":4504.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":4504.964093750001,"end":4504.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":4505.1834687499995,"end":4507.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4505.520968750001,"end":4505.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4506.63471875,"end":4507.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4507.79909375,"end":4514.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4515.71346875,"end":4516.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4517.282843749999,"end":4518.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4518.6834687499995,"end":4519.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4519.780343750001,"end":4519.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4520.809718750001,"end":4520.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4520.843468749999,"end":4522.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4523.560343749999,"end":4527.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4528.13346875,"end":4533.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4533.263468749999,"end":4534.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4535.17034375,"end":4535.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4535.2040937500005,"end":4538.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4538.798468749999,"end":4539.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4540.04721875,"end":4540.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4541.667218750001,"end":4541.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4542.6122187500005,"end":4542.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4542.932843750001,"end":4547.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4547.573468750001,"end":4548.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4549.1259687500005,"end":4549.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4550.712218750001,"end":4551.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4552.51784375,"end":4554.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4554.71159375,"end":4555.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4555.99409375,"end":4556.331593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4556.466593749999,"end":4559.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4561.27596875,"end":4564.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4562.659718749999,"end":4563.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4564.448468750001,"end":4565.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4566.11909375,"end":4567.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4568.565968749999,"end":4569.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4568.73471875,"end":4573.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4573.729718750001,"end":4574.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4574.995343750001,"end":4576.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4577.02034375,"end":4581.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4581.39096875,"end":4581.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4581.49221875,"end":4581.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4581.509093750001,"end":4581.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4581.829718749999,"end":4582.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4582.97721875,"end":4583.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4583.567843750001,"end":4584.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4585.154093749999,"end":4586.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4586.6728437500005,"end":4589.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4589.609093749999,"end":4592.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4593.10221875,"end":4594.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4594.823468750001,"end":4598.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4599.85221875,"end":4600.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4601.387843750001,"end":4604.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4604.661593750001,"end":4605.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4605.91034375,"end":4608.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4608.57659375,"end":4613.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4614.01034375,"end":4615.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4615.073468750001,"end":4616.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4616.50784375,"end":4617.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4617.90846875,"end":4618.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4618.75221875,"end":4620.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4620.4228437500005,"end":4621.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4621.89096875,"end":4622.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4622.63346875,"end":4625.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4626.39659375,"end":4630.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4630.37909375,"end":4634.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4635.458468750001,"end":4639.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4639.778468750001,"end":4644.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4645.819718750001,"end":4647.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4648.33409375,"end":4651.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4651.776593750001,"end":4654.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4654.98284375,"end":4658.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4658.948468750001,"end":4662.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4663.015343749999,"end":4664.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4664.7197187500005,"end":4665.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4665.884093750001,"end":4666.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4667.16659375,"end":4670.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4670.9803437499995,"end":4672.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4672.904093749999,"end":4673.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4673.849093750001,"end":4675.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4675.73909375,"end":4677.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4678.2197187500005,"end":4682.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4679.670968750001,"end":4680.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4680.58221875,"end":4680.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4682.235968749999,"end":4684.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4685.49284375,"end":4687.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4687.36596875,"end":4689.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4689.880343750001,"end":4691.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4692.327218750001,"end":4693.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4693.89659375,"end":4695.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4695.56721875,"end":4697.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4697.92971875,"end":4699.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4699.93784375,"end":4702.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4702.73909375,"end":4704.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4705.23659375,"end":4706.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4707.24471875,"end":4709.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4709.55659375,"end":4721.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4721.03159375,"end":4721.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4721.55471875,"end":4723.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4723.42784375,"end":4728.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4728.6590937500005,"end":4729.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4729.94159375,"end":4731.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4742.142218749999,"end":4742.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4743.087218750001,"end":4746.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4747.575968749999,"end":4750.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4758.57846875,"end":4759.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4760.45159375,"end":4761.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4771.09971875,"end":4771.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4771.116593750001,"end":4771.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4771.200968749999,"end":4771.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":4771.47096875,"end":4771.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4771.84221875,"end":4777.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4778.423468749999,"end":4782.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4783.38471875,"end":4785.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4786.590968750001,"end":4787.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4787.7215937500005,"end":4788.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4788.413468750001,"end":4792.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4792.17659375,"end":4793.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4794.1678437499995,"end":4796.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4796.985968749999,"end":4800.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4799.31471875,"end":4799.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4800.7997187500005,"end":4802.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4803.29721875,"end":4805.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4806.317843750001,"end":4807.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4808.27534375,"end":4811.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4811.73471875,"end":4812.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4813.33784375,"end":4814.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4815.66659375,"end":4820.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4821.134093750001,"end":4823.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4824.137843750001,"end":4830.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4830.06096875,"end":4831.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4831.950968749999,"end":4832.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4832.9803437499995,"end":4833.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4833.655343750001,"end":4834.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4835.68034375,"end":4836.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4837.94159375,"end":4839.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4839.3084687499995,"end":4840.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4840.79346875,"end":4842.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4843.358468750001,"end":4849.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4851.07034375,"end":4861.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4861.684718750001,"end":4863.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4863.81096875,"end":4872.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4872.67034375,"end":4875.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4875.75846875,"end":4877.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4878.644093750001,"end":4881.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4881.42846875,"end":4885.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4885.917218750001,"end":4887.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4887.75659375,"end":4889.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4889.427218750001,"end":4891.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4890.743468750001,"end":4896.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4896.44721875,"end":4898.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4898.74221875,"end":4899.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4899.95721875,"end":4902.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4903.14659375,"end":4907.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4907.939093749999,"end":4909.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4909.204718749999,"end":4909.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4909.440968750001,"end":4911.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4912.2928437499995,"end":4918.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4919.3465937500005,"end":4920.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4921.5740937499995,"end":4924.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4924.37534375,"end":4928.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4928.96534375,"end":4930.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4930.88909375,"end":4930.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4931.294093750001,"end":4933.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4933.97721875,"end":4939.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4939.42784375,"end":4952.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4952.16846875,"end":4955.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4956.454718749999,"end":4957.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4958.108468750001,"end":4960.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4961.888468749999,"end":4963.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4964.55471875,"end":4967.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4967.389718750001,"end":4973.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4973.44784375,"end":4976.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4976.8397187499995,"end":4978.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4979.30346875,"end":4981.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4982.03721875,"end":4984.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4984.720343749999,"end":4988.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4988.02784375,"end":4988.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4989.1415937500005,"end":4989.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4989.15846875,"end":4989.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4990.390343749999,"end":4995.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4996.110968749999,"end":5001.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4996.14471875,"end":4996.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4996.9715937500005,"end":4997.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4998.52409375,"end":5001.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5002.354718750001,"end":5008.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5007.079718749999,"end":5007.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5008.817843750001,"end":5013.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5014.60596875,"end":5015.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5015.888468749999,"end":5018.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5019.24659375,"end":5022.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5023.33034375,"end":5028.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5028.831593750001,"end":5030.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5030.8397187499995,"end":5045.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5046.0272187499995,"end":5050.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5051.30909375,"end":5052.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5052.91221875,"end":5059.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5056.725968750001,"end":5059.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5059.56096875,"end":5059.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5059.729718750001,"end":5059.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5059.915343750001,"end":5060.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5060.522843750001,"end":5060.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5060.624093750001,"end":5060.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5060.64096875,"end":5060.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5061.34971875,"end":5064.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5065.33221875,"end":5067.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5069.2303437499995,"end":5070.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5071.13721875,"end":5071.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5072.68971875,"end":5074.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5076.19971875,"end":5077.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5077.9715937500005,"end":5077.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5077.98846875,"end":5079.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5078.055968750001,"end":5078.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5079.034718750001,"end":5079.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5079.3553437499995,"end":5080.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5080.97534375,"end":5082.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5082.645968750001,"end":5093.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5093.78346875,"end":5101.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5101.74846875,"end":5103.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5104.83659375,"end":5106.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5104.98846875,"end":5105.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5107.46909375,"end":5108.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5108.937218749999,"end":5113.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5113.493468750001,"end":5117.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5117.77971875,"end":5119.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5120.36159375,"end":5124.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5124.95159375,"end":5127.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5127.229718750001,"end":5130.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5128.90034375,"end":5138.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5132.73096875,"end":5140.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5140.64534375,"end":5140.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5140.66221875,"end":5140.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5140.679093750001,"end":5142.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5140.763468749999,"end":5144.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5145.454718749999,"end":5148.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5149.403468750001,"end":5152.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5152.812218749999,"end":5154.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5155.259093750001,"end":5158.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5158.026593750001,"end":5158.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5158.14471875,"end":5158.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5158.33034375,"end":5158.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5158.83659375,"end":5160.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5161.28346875,"end":5166.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5165.2997187500005,"end":5166.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5166.29534375,"end":5166.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5166.464093750001,"end":5167.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5168.87721875,"end":5175.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5169.9403437500005,"end":5170.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5176.4540937500005,"end":5176.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5176.97721875,"end":5181.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5182.815968750001,"end":5186.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5187.4228437500005,"end":5193.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5193.9872187500005,"end":5197.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5196.2147187499995,"end":5196.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5197.024718750001,"end":5197.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5197.581593750001,"end":5200.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5200.83846875,"end":5210.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5201.108468750001,"end":5202.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5206.440968750001,"end":5206.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5208.9384687500005,"end":5210.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5210.474093750001,"end":5210.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5210.895968750001,"end":5211.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5211.48659375,"end":5211.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5211.503468750001,"end":5217.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5217.1903437500005,"end":5218.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5218.6415937500005,"end":5219.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5220.6834687499995,"end":5220.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5220.700343750001,"end":5233.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5230.909718750001,"end":5231.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5232.512843750001,"end":5233.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5233.50846875,"end":5237.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5236.98471875,"end":5238.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5238.57096875,"end":5239.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5240.562218749999,"end":5242.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5242.97534375,"end":5244.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5245.202843749999,"end":5247.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5248.18971875,"end":5250.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5251.159718750001,"end":5254.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5255.564093749999,"end":5257.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5258.12909375,"end":5259.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5260.45784375,"end":5261.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5261.9090937500005,"end":5264.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5265.14909375,"end":5267.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5268.557843750001,"end":5270.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5271.139718750001,"end":5275.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5275.780343750001,"end":5277.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5275.8309687500005,"end":5276.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5276.573468750001,"end":5276.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5277.29909375,"end":5278.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5278.159718750001,"end":5278.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5278.22721875,"end":5286.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5278.24409375,"end":5280.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5286.61409375,"end":5287.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5286.71534375,"end":5286.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5287.79534375,"end":5308.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5287.964093750001,"end":5289.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5291.74409375,"end":5292.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5308.7372187500005,"end":5313.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5313.1415937500005,"end":5313.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5313.25971875,"end":5316.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5314.8290937500005,"end":5315.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5316.128468750001,"end":5317.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5316.53346875,"end":5317.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5317.79909375,"end":5317.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5318.372843749999,"end":5318.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5318.40659375,"end":5318.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5318.474093750001,"end":5318.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5318.659718750001,"end":5320.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5320.22909375,"end":5320.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5320.80284375,"end":5327.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5328.43034375,"end":5330.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5331.85596875,"end":5332.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5333.104718750001,"end":5336.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5337.1884687500005,"end":5338.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5338.622843749999,"end":5338.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5338.639718750001,"end":5338.673468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5338.97721875,"end":5339.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5339.196593750001,"end":5343.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5339.34846875,"end":5341.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5344.124093750001,"end":5345.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5345.845343749999,"end":5346.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5347.532843749999,"end":5348.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5349.405968749999,"end":5349.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5351.39721875,"end":5352.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5352.966593749999,"end":5354.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5355.3290937500005,"end":5374.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5374.9715937500005,"end":5376.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5377.350968750001,"end":5380.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5381.468468749999,"end":5383.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5383.98284375,"end":5387.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5387.999093750001,"end":5388.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5389.163468750001,"end":5391.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5391.01971875,"end":5396.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5397.29721875,"end":5397.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5397.465968750001,"end":5401.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5397.48284375,"end":5398.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5399.339093750001,"end":5402.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5402.477843750001,"end":5404.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5405.565968750001,"end":5406.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5407.37159375,"end":5412.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5412.77159375,"end":5412.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5413.210343750001,"end":5431.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5414.93159375,"end":5415.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5419.538468750001,"end":5420.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5421.34409375,"end":5424.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5425.22534375,"end":5426.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5430.034718750001,"end":5432.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5432.380343750001,"end":5432.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5432.49846875,"end":5432.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5432.802218750001,"end":5432.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5432.97096875,"end":5437.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5433.52784375,"end":5434.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5436.514718750001,"end":5437.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":5437.206593750001,"end":5437.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5437.66221875,"end":5442.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5437.69596875,"end":5438.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5439.34971875,"end":5439.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5443.720343749999,"end":5456.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5456.86596875,"end":5463.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5464.79721875,"end":5467.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5468.6278437500005,"end":5474.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5468.93159375,"end":5469.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5474.145968750001,"end":5475.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5474.21346875,"end":5474.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5475.10784375,"end":5484.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5484.28784375,"end":5484.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5484.878468750001,"end":5485.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5485.6884687500005,"end":5486.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5487.20721875,"end":5488.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5489.18159375,"end":5495.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5495.7459687499995,"end":5497.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5498.26034375,"end":5508.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5509.98846875,"end":5516.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5515.10159375,"end":5521.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5518.56096875,"end":5535.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5526.72846875,"end":5526.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":5526.779093749999,"end":5527.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5527.0322187500005,"end":5527.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":5527.589093750001,"end":5527.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5533.90034375,"end":5538.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5536.347218750001,"end":5537.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5538.38909375,"end":5539.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5538.405968749999,"end":5539.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5539.89096875,"end":5540.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5541.089093750001,"end":5542.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5543.26596875,"end":5545.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5546.03346875,"end":5552.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5551.8553437499995,"end":5552.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5552.54721875,"end":5556.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5558.13284375,"end":5558.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5559.19596875,"end":5565.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5565.794093750001,"end":5566.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5567.430968750001,"end":5573.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5570.249093750001,"end":5570.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5571.5653437500005,"end":5574.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5575.1259687500005,"end":5575.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5575.66596875,"end":5579.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5578.65284375,"end":5584.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5584.52534375,"end":5586.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5586.19596875,"end":5600.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5586.71909375,"end":5587.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":5590.954718749999,"end":5591.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5600.657843749999,"end":5602.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5603.3240937499995,"end":5604.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5603.425343750001,"end":5603.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5603.475968750001,"end":5603.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5603.93159375,"end":5604.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5605.19721875,"end":5612.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":5605.33221875,"end":5605.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5605.97346875,"end":5606.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5612.16659375,"end":5625.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5626.84784375,"end":5627.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5627.97846875,"end":5627.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5628.2147187499995,"end":5628.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5628.231593750001,"end":5628.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5628.24846875,"end":5632.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5630.08784375,"end":5630.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5633.78346875,"end":5637.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5635.75784375,"end":5636.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5638.542218750001,"end":5643.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5638.575968749999,"end":5638.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5639.68971875,"end":5640.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5640.972218750001,"end":5641.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5643.2840937500005,"end":5643.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5643.604718750001,"end":5650.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5649.696593750001,"end":5650.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5650.50659375,"end":5650.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5650.624718749999,"end":5652.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5651.13096875,"end":5652.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5652.784718750001,"end":5653.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5653.00409375,"end":5653.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5653.8309687500005,"end":5654.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5654.13471875,"end":5657.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5656.3622187500005,"end":5657.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5657.91471875,"end":5658.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5658.06659375,"end":5658.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5658.083468750001,"end":5658.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5658.10034375,"end":5658.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5658.48846875,"end":5658.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5658.505343750001,"end":5659.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5659.399718750001,"end":5659.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5659.585343750001,"end":5660.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5662.251593749999,"end":5664.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5665.120343750001,"end":5668.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5668.69784375,"end":5674.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5675.009093750001,"end":5675.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5678.0634687500005,"end":5680.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5682.48471875,"end":5685.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5706.24471875,"end":5710.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5710.395968750001,"end":5712.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5721.63471875,"end":5723.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5723.64284375,"end":5724.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5724.48659375,"end":5725.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5726.44409375,"end":5732.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5733.3290937500005,"end":5738.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5738.96534375,"end":5740.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5741.07471875,"end":5741.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5742.49221875,"end":5745.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5745.749093750001,"end":5746.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5746.575968749999,"end":5749.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5749.765343749999,"end":5754.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5755.350968750001,"end":5757.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5757.966593749999,"end":5758.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5759.82284375,"end":5764.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5765.07096875,"end":5769.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5770.909718750001,"end":5774.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5774.79096875,"end":5779.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5780.427218750001,"end":5780.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5781.20346875,"end":5785.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5786.704718749999,"end":5789.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5789.30346875,"end":5789.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5790.34971875,"end":5793.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5794.298468749999,"end":5796.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5797.08284375,"end":5804.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5804.77784375,"end":5806.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5807.005343750001,"end":5808.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5808.57471875,"end":5814.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5815.24034375,"end":5818.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5819.3240937499995,"end":5835.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5836.65471875,"end":5840.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5840.73846875,"end":5844.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5844.7040937500005,"end":5846.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5847.28596875,"end":5848.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5848.55159375,"end":5848.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5849.479718750001,"end":5851.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5852.07846875,"end":5852.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5853.63096875,"end":5856.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5856.85409375,"end":5857.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5858.17034375,"end":5859.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5859.604718750001,"end":5861.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5861.73096875,"end":5869.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5861.78159375,"end":5863.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5863.78971875,"end":5866.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":5866.27034375,"end":5866.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5866.33784375,"end":5866.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5867.704718750001,"end":5867.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5869.79721875,"end":5872.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5872.260968750001,"end":5874.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5874.35346875,"end":5874.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5874.43784375,"end":5874.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5874.48846875,"end":5880.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5880.782843750001,"end":5885.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5886.43596875,"end":5906.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5896.544093750001,"end":5896.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5907.42846875,"end":5908.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5909.30159375,"end":5910.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5911.529093749999,"end":5915.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5916.38909375,"end":5918.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5919.173468750001,"end":5923.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5919.359093749999,"end":5919.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5923.999718749999,"end":5928.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5929.23096875,"end":5930.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5930.5809687500005,"end":5935.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5933.31471875,"end":5936.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5936.72346875,"end":5944.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5941.00971875,"end":5942.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5944.857218749999,"end":5946.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5947.23659375,"end":5953.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5954.2059687500005,"end":5962.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5963.30159375,"end":5964.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5965.124093750001,"end":5966.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5967.317843750001,"end":5976.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5973.57846875,"end":5973.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5973.831593750001,"end":5973.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5975.7215937500005,"end":5976.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5977.13909375,"end":5979.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5979.99096875,"end":5981.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5981.22284375,"end":5983.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5985.137843750001,"end":5986.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5986.97721875,"end":5989.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5990.2509687500005,"end":5991.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5991.550343750001,"end":5996.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5994.182843750001,"end":5994.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5995.499093750001,"end":6002.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6003.1434687500005,"end":6003.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6004.122218750001,"end":6004.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6004.89846875,"end":6004.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6004.915343750001,"end":6006.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6006.417218750001,"end":6006.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6006.501593750001,"end":6007.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6006.872843749999,"end":6009.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6010.4334687499995,"end":6013.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6014.50034375,"end":6016.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6018.29721875,"end":6026.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6023.562218749999,"end":6024.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6026.12721875,"end":6031.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6026.83596875,"end":6026.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6031.98284375,"end":6037.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6037.484093749999,"end":6042.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6043.255343750001,"end":6051.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6050.62971875,"end":6055.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6056.704718750001,"end":6058.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6058.27409375,"end":6066.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6067.13346875,"end":6069.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6070.356593750001,"end":6073.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6073.5965937500005,"end":6077.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6078.456593750001,"end":6079.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6080.16096875,"end":6082.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":6080.26221875,"end":6080.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6083.012843750001,"end":6084.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6084.514718750001,"end":6088.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6088.716593749999,"end":6090.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6091.163468750001,"end":6092.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6093.1884687500005,"end":6093.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6093.593468749999,"end":6095.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6096.15846875,"end":6098.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6098.942843750001,"end":6100.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6101.32221875,"end":6104.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6105.186593750001,"end":6105.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6106.51971875,"end":6108.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6108.76409375,"end":6109.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6110.569718750001,"end":6112.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6113.185343749999,"end":6114.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6115.04159375,"end":6115.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6116.762843750001,"end":6131.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6131.612843750001,"end":6135.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6136.0340937500005,"end":6139.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6139.442843750001,"end":6149.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6150.00659375,"end":6151.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6152.36909375,"end":6155.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6156.419093750001,"end":6157.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6156.62159375,"end":6156.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6157.27971875,"end":6163.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6163.388468749999,"end":6167.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6166.577843749999,"end":6170.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6168.80534375,"end":6173.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6174.15471875,"end":6177.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6174.171593749999,"end":6175.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6175.8084687499995,"end":6186.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6186.06846875,"end":6188.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6188.616593750001,"end":6189.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6189.47721875,"end":6193.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6194.387843750001,"end":6198.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6198.741593750001,"end":6201.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6202.487843750001,"end":6216.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6211.00971875,"end":6211.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6216.173468750001,"end":6221.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6221.624093750001,"end":6223.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6224.290343750001,"end":6234.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6233.942843750001,"end":6240.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6234.280343750001,"end":6234.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6234.314093750001,"end":6234.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6234.4490937499995,"end":6234.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":6234.651593750001,"end":6234.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6240.52409375,"end":6243.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6244.27034375,"end":6248.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6248.97846875,"end":6250.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6248.995343750001,"end":6249.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6251.2059687500005,"end":6252.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6253.75409375,"end":6255.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6255.99846875,"end":6257.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6259.27221875,"end":6260.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6262.22534375,"end":6264.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6265.04346875,"end":6270.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6271.354718750001,"end":6272.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6271.725968750001,"end":6274.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6275.48909375,"end":6287.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6286.69409375,"end":6295.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6289.579718750001,"end":6290.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6295.435343749999,"end":6310.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6298.439093750001,"end":6298.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6298.4559687500005,"end":6298.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6298.50659375,"end":6298.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6298.810343749999,"end":6298.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6310.99409375,"end":6313.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6313.87971875,"end":6318.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6318.4022187499995,"end":6321.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6321.0009687500005,"end":6322.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6322.215968750001,"end":6326.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6326.36721875,"end":6327.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6326.670968750001,"end":6336.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6337.23471875,"end":6351.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":6351.07221875,"end":6351.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6351.25784375,"end":6355.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6355.66221875,"end":6357.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6358.09221875,"end":6361.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6362.22659375,"end":6366.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6367.42409375,"end":6371.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6371.474093750001,"end":6379.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6379.405343750001,"end":6385.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6380.53596875,"end":6380.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6383.4384687500005,"end":6383.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":6383.91096875,"end":6383.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6386.59409375,"end":6389.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":6389.36159375,"end":6389.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6389.378468750001,"end":6390.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6389.749718749999,"end":6394.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6392.17971875,"end":6396.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6396.364718750001,"end":6408.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6408.80159375,"end":6412.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6409.08846875,"end":6409.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6413.45909375,"end":6418.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6418.94346875,"end":6419.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6419.73659375,"end":6422.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6422.0653437500005,"end":6422.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6422.68971875,"end":6449.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6430.80659375,"end":6433.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6448.6434687500005,"end":6452.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6452.82846875,"end":6456.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6456.642218750001,"end":6460.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6461.012843750001,"end":6464.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6465.467843750001,"end":6474.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6474.833468750001,"end":6475.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6476.385968750001,"end":6482.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6483.49034375,"end":6492.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6492.80534375,"end":6525.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6525.795968750001,"end":6528.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6528.25971875,"end":6534.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6533.845343750001,"end":6537.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6534.8240937499995,"end":6535.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6537.28784375,"end":6541.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6541.79346875,"end":6550.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6549.4715937500005,"end":6552.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6552.39096875,"end":6556.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6556.7615937499995,"end":6558.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6558.66846875,"end":6559.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6560.001593750001,"end":6566.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6566.97096875,"end":6570.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6569.95784375,"end":6574.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6570.6834687499995,"end":6570.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6574.311593750001,"end":6593.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6594.544718749999,"end":6596.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6596.434718750001,"end":6616.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6616.583468750001,"end":6617.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6617.325968749999,"end":6618.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6618.929093750001,"end":6624.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6639.837218750001,"end":6643.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6645.67596875,"end":6647.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6648.00471875,"end":6650.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7270.89471875,"end":7272.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7273.071593750001,"end":7275.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7284.68159375,"end":7286.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7286.79096875,"end":7288.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7297.33784375,"end":7298.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7298.097218750001,"end":7306.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7299.312218750001,"end":7299.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7306.88909375,"end":7312.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7313.014718750001,"end":7317.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7317.77346875,"end":7325.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7325.40096875,"end":7350.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7350.966593749999,"end":7356.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7356.95721875,"end":7360.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7360.60221875,"end":7362.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7362.930968750001,"end":7362.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7363.33596875,"end":7364.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7364.517218750001,"end":7364.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7364.5340937500005,"end":7364.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7365.124718750001,"end":7374.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7374.30471875,"end":7378.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7378.75971875,"end":7380.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7382.2528437500005,"end":7389.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7385.982218749999,"end":7412.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7390.302218750001,"end":7392.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7395.280343750001,"end":7395.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7413.33659375,"end":7430.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7431.089093750001,"end":7436.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7436.69159375,"end":7441.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7442.091593749999,"end":7449.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7449.85409375,"end":7451.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7451.423468750001,"end":7456.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7456.97534375,"end":7474.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7465.109093750001,"end":7465.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7465.1259687500005,"end":7466.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7468.956593750001,"end":7470.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7472.483468750001,"end":7473.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7474.964093750001,"end":7492.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7492.817843750001,"end":7495.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7495.7372187500005,"end":7496.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7497.559718750001,"end":7498.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7498.84221875,"end":7498.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7498.8759687500005,"end":7498.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7498.89284375,"end":7499.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7499.87159375,"end":7499.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7500.276593750001,"end":7517.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7500.310343749999,"end":7503.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7517.30346875,"end":7527.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7527.85034375,"end":7530.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7530.280343750001,"end":7531.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7532.1365937499995,"end":7537.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7537.907843750001,"end":7543.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7543.780343750001,"end":7553.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7551.559718750001,"end":7556.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7556.942843750001,"end":7557.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7558.866593750001,"end":7561.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7562.140343750001,"end":7564.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7565.59971875,"end":7567.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7568.2997187500005,"end":7568.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7568.36721875,"end":7568.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7568.97471875,"end":7568.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7568.991593750001,"end":7569.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7569.970343750001,"end":7570.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7570.03784375,"end":7575.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7575.032843750001,"end":7579.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":7579.75784375,"end":7584.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7584.972218750001,"end":7594.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7596.05909375,"end":7598.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7598.3709687499995,"end":7598.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7598.843468750001,"end":7607.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7607.63534375,"end":7635.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":7634.196593750001,"end":7634.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":7634.331593750001,"end":7634.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7636.08659375,"end":7639.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7640.0184687500005,"end":7640.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7640.524718750001,"end":7645.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7645.09784375,"end":7646.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7646.78534375,"end":7649.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7649.87346875,"end":7655.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7653.889718750001,"end":7654.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7655.7459687499995,"end":7657.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7657.585343750001,"end":7676.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7661.6522187499995,"end":7661.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7661.78721875,"end":7661.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7661.82096875,"end":7662.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7676.991593750001,"end":7709.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7702.75971875,"end":7703.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7710.33659375,"end":7736.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7736.54346875,"end":7748.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7749.132218750001,"end":7792.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7793.41221875,"end":7796.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7796.702843750001,"end":7814.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7814.995343750001,"end":7821.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7822.13346875,"end":7829.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7830.081593750001,"end":7856.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7857.48659375,"end":7862.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7863.359093750001,"end":7869.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7869.75471875,"end":7883.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7883.339093750001,"end":7893.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7893.34596875,"end":7893.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7893.936593750001,"end":7894.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7894.29096875,"end":7895.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7895.843468750001,"end":7896.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7897.14284375,"end":7900.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7900.635968750001,"end":7901.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7902.05346875,"end":7903.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7903.70721875,"end":7906.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7906.79534375,"end":7911.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7911.925343750001,"end":7917.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7917.966593749999,"end":7918.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7918.253468750001,"end":7918.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7918.55721875,"end":7932.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7929.323468750001,"end":7933.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7933.255343750001,"end":7947.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7948.61159375,"end":7951.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7952.59409375,"end":7954.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7955.057843750001,"end":7957.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7958.39909375,"end":7960.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7959.61409375,"end":7960.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7960.79534375,"end":7960.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7961.1834687499995,"end":7962.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7962.044093750001,"end":7965.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7962.06096875,"end":7962.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7965.16596875,"end":7966.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7966.077218750001,"end":7966.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7966.43159375,"end":7967.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7968.10221875,"end":7968.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7969.41846875,"end":7970.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7971.139718750001,"end":7973.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7973.55284375,"end":7975.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7976.03346875,"end":7978.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7978.3622187500005,"end":7986.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7986.71534375,"end":7994.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7994.49471875,"end":8009.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8009.39534375,"end":8014.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8015.419718749999,"end":8036.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8036.46284375,"end":8037.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8037.47534375,"end":8038.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8039.466593750001,"end":8041.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8042.335343750001,"end":8045.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8045.895968750001,"end":8046.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8047.1278437500005,"end":8056.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8056.47659375,"end":8057.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8058.11346875,"end":8060.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8060.577218750001,"end":8061.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8061.876593750001,"end":8062.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8063.07471875,"end":8065.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8065.6903437500005,"end":8108.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8108.92409375,"end":8112.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8112.61971875,"end":8122.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8122.87971875,"end":8154.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8131.030343750001,"end":8131.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8131.064093750001,"end":8131.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8131.6209687499995,"end":8131.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8144.513468750001,"end":8145.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8145.71159375,"end":8145.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8155.161593750001,"end":8163.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8163.86909375,"end":8166.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8166.9403437500005,"end":8170.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8170.163468750001,"end":8184.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8183.5115937499995,"end":8190.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8190.278468750001,"end":8196.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8195.20596875,"end":8198.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8196.269093750001,"end":8196.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8196.94409375,"end":8196.977843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8197.41659375,"end":8198.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8198.125343750002,"end":8198.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8199.82971875,"end":8203.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8205.60096875,"end":8209.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8217.98721875,"end":8219.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8219.843468750001,"end":8221.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8230.00221875,"end":8230.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8230.47471875,"end":8230.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8230.508468750002,"end":8230.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8230.79534375,"end":8232.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8232.38159375,"end":8232.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8232.68534375,"end":8233.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8233.832843750002,"end":8235.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8235.95909375,"end":8237.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8239.55346875,"end":8240.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8240.954093750002,"end":8245.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8246.117843750002,"end":8248.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8249.18909375,"end":8250.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8250.77534375,"end":8253.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8254.11659375,"end":8255.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8256.495968750001,"end":8259.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8259.70221875,"end":8261.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8261.204093750002,"end":8261.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8262.081593750001,"end":8262.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8262.570968750002,"end":8263.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8264.106593750003,"end":8268.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8268.730343750001,"end":8268.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8270.02971875,"end":8272.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8272.67909375,"end":8273.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8274.55221875,"end":8278.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8278.450343750003,"end":8279.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8280.03659375,"end":8280.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8280.981593750003,"end":8282.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8282.753468750001,"end":8285.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8286.465968750003,"end":8287.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8287.815968750001,"end":8289.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8290.617218750001,"end":8291.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8293.85721875,"end":8294.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8295.24096875,"end":8295.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8296.219718750002,"end":8297.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8297.87346875,"end":8299.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8299.13909375,"end":8299.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8301.214718750001,"end":8302.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8302.919093750003,"end":8303.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8304.94409375,"end":8308.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8308.94346875,"end":8311.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8311.238468750002,"end":8312.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8312.402843750002,"end":8317.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8317.90409375,"end":8319.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8320.620968750001,"end":8321.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8321.684093750002,"end":8326.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8326.76346875,"end":8331.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8333.47971875,"end":8335.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8336.280968750001,"end":8344.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8337.10784375,"end":8338.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8340.617843750002,"end":8340.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8346.01784375,"end":8347.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8348.12721875,"end":8349.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8349.39284375,"end":8350.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8351.28284375,"end":8352.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8353.645343750002,"end":8354.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8354.759093750003,"end":8355.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8356.480343750001,"end":8358.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8359.24784375,"end":8361.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8361.660968750002,"end":8364.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8361.69471875,"end":8362.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8365.10346875,"end":8365.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8365.69409375,"end":8370.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8370.722843750002,"end":8371.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8372.34284375,"end":8373.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8373.675968750002,"end":8376.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8376.949718750002,"end":8377.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8378.316593750002,"end":8379.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8379.683468750001,"end":8380.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8381.45534375,"end":8384.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8384.762843750003,"end":8385.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8385.606593750003,"end":8392.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8392.27221875,"end":8395.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8396.42346875,"end":8398.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8399.32596875,"end":8404.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8404.472843750002,"end":8408.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8408.72534375,"end":8410.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8410.750343750002,"end":8412.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8412.10034375,"end":8414.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8416.082843750002,"end":8416.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8417.36534375,"end":8419.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8419.37346875,"end":8422.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8422.934093750002,"end":8424.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8424.33471875,"end":8425.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8426.12346875,"end":8428.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8428.35096875,"end":8430.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8431.03409375,"end":8431.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8432.215343750002,"end":8433.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8434.25721875,"end":8436.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8436.55221875,"end":8437.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8437.66596875,"end":8438.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8439.04971875,"end":8441.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8441.715968750003,"end":8444.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8444.820968750002,"end":8446.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8446.289093750001,"end":8449.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8449.42784375,"end":8455.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8455.43534375,"end":8458.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8458.03409375,"end":8458.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8458.894718750002,"end":8458.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8458.91159375,"end":8467.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8468.226593750001,"end":8468.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8468.63159375,"end":8469.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8469.981593750003,"end":8470.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8470.72409375,"end":8475.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8472.090968750003,"end":8474.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8474.976593750001,"end":8491.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8491.51409375,"end":8493.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8493.82596875,"end":8506.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8507.055968750003,"end":8510.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8510.27909375,"end":8514.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8510.886593750001,"end":8510.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8511.02159375,"end":8511.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8513.82284375,"end":8514.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8514.902843750002,"end":8516.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8516.742218750001,"end":8518.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8518.63221875,"end":8518.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8520.52221875,"end":8520.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8521.180343750002,"end":8532.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8529.837218750003,"end":8530.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8533.262843750003,"end":8536.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8537.582843750002,"end":8544.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8545.159718750001,"end":8546.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8546.93159375,"end":8547.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8547.015968750002,"end":8547.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8547.218468750001,"end":8550.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8548.88909375,"end":8549.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8551.082843750002,"end":8555.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8555.41971875,"end":8555.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8556.17909375,"end":8558.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8558.524718750003,"end":8558.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8558.96346875,"end":8560.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8560.43159375,"end":8562.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8561.74784375,"end":8562.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8562.794093750003,"end":8571.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8571.41721875,"end":8595.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8593.72596875,"end":8593.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8595.97034375,"end":8599.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8600.324093750001,"end":8605.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8605.808468750001,"end":8607.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8607.546593750001,"end":8607.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8608.356593750003,"end":8609.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8610.989093750002,"end":8613.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8613.53721875,"end":8614.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8615.07284375,"end":8628.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8629.26471875,"end":8634.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8635.356593750003,"end":8637.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8637.820343750001,"end":8639.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8640.43596875,"end":8641.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8641.87034375,"end":8644.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8644.637843750003,"end":8645.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8645.903468750003,"end":8646.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8646.426593750002,"end":8647.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8647.55721875,"end":8648.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8648.56971875,"end":8649.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8649.24471875,"end":8651.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8651.82659375,"end":8655.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8655.960968750001,"end":8656.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8656.534718750001,"end":8657.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8657.95221875,"end":8660.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8660.36534375,"end":8664.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8662.930343750002,"end":8665.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8665.96784375,"end":8673.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8673.44346875,"end":8674.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8675.468468750001,"end":8676.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8676.81846875,"end":8678.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8678.742218750001,"end":8680.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8681.003468750001,"end":8681.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8681.50971875,"end":8681.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8682.35346875,"end":8683.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8684.294093750003,"end":8688.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8688.79971875,"end":8690.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8690.284718750001,"end":8691.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8692.63034375,"end":8694.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8695.49909375,"end":8696.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8697.254093750002,"end":8699.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8700.831593750001,"end":8701.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8702.012843750003,"end":8704.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8705.72534375,"end":8706.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8707.14284375,"end":8708.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8709.10034375,"end":8709.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8710.180343750002,"end":8710.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8710.754093750002,"end":8712.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8712.964718750001,"end":8714.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8714.550968750002,"end":8715.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8715.968468750001,"end":8720.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8721.199718750002,"end":8723.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8723.44409375,"end":8724.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8724.92909375,"end":8727.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8728.08471875,"end":8731.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8731.324718750002,"end":8731.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8732.62409375,"end":8733.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8733.282218750002,"end":8734.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8735.121593750002,"end":8745.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8745.550343750001,"end":8751.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8751.43971875,"end":8751.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8751.97971875,"end":8753.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8753.734718750002,"end":8754.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8754.93284375,"end":8756.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8756.586593750002,"end":8757.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8758.51034375,"end":8759.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8760.062843750002,"end":8760.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8761.09221875,"end":8761.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8762.52659375,"end":8762.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8763.94409375,"end":8765.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8766.019718750002,"end":8768.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8768.399093750002,"end":8770.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8771.47034375,"end":8771.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8771.48721875,"end":8772.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8773.44471875,"end":8774.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8775.75659375,"end":8775.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8775.790343750003,"end":8777.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8777.66346875,"end":8779.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8779.941593750002,"end":8781.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8782.152218750001,"end":8785.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8786.13471875,"end":8789.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8790.015968750002,"end":8792.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8792.93534375,"end":8794.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8794.504718750002,"end":8795.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8796.47909375,"end":8797.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8797.59284375,"end":8798.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8798.47034375,"end":8799.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8800.90034375,"end":8802.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8802.672218750002,"end":8804.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8804.612843750001,"end":8804.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8805.50721875,"end":8808.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8808.86534375,"end":8811.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8811.61596875,"end":8813.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8813.94471875,"end":8816.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8817.37034375,"end":8819.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8819.918468750002,"end":8820.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8821.082843750002,"end":8824.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8824.710968750001,"end":8824.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8824.879718750002,"end":8829.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8830.617218750001,"end":8831.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8832.11909375,"end":8836.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8836.86096875,"end":8838.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8838.362843750001,"end":8839.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8840.472218750001,"end":8841.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8841.87284375,"end":8842.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8843.745968750001,"end":8844.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8846.00721875,"end":8846.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8847.137843750003,"end":8848.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8848.285343750002,"end":8849.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8850.00659375,"end":8851.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8852.38596875,"end":8853.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8853.58409375,"end":8857.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8858.055968750003,"end":8859.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8860.199093750001,"end":8863.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8864.29971875,"end":8867.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8867.60721875,"end":8869.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8870.020343750002,"end":8873.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8873.226593750001,"end":8874.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8874.69471875,"end":8875.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8876.027843750002,"end":8876.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8877.242843750002,"end":8877.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8877.614093750002,"end":8878.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8878.47471875,"end":8880.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8880.63471875,"end":8881.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8881.84971875,"end":8883.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8883.300968750002,"end":8888.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8888.565968750001,"end":8889.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8889.56159375,"end":8892.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8892.76784375,"end":8894.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8894.92784375,"end":8897.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8897.965343750002,"end":8899.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8899.99034375,"end":8901.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8901.88034375,"end":8904.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8904.73221875,"end":8911.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8912.528468750003,"end":8913.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8913.574718750002,"end":8916.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8917.422218750002,"end":8918.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8919.24471875,"end":8919.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8919.97034375,"end":8920.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8921.792843750001,"end":8922.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8923.058468750001,"end":8934.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8934.33096875,"end":8940.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8940.28784375,"end":8944.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8944.65846875,"end":8959.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8944.87784375,"end":8947.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8959.00221875,"end":8961.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8959.019093750001,"end":8960.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8962.140968750002,"end":8963.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8963.997218750003,"end":8965.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8966.309093750002,"end":8967.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8968.13159375,"end":8969.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8970.359093750001,"end":8971.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8972.60346875,"end":8973.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8974.274093750002,"end":8975.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8975.03346875,"end":8975.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8977.34534375,"end":8978.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8978.67846875,"end":8980.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8980.905968750001,"end":8983.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8983.386593750001,"end":8988.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8989.15784375,"end":8991.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8991.43596875,"end":8998.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8998.844093750002,"end":9011.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8999.92409375,"end":9002.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9003.636593750001,"end":9004.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9011.80409375,"end":9017.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9017.32221875,"end":9021.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9021.59159375,"end":9025.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9025.270343750002,"end":9026.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9027.210968750001,"end":9027.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9027.71721875,"end":9027.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9027.734093750001,"end":9029.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9030.40034375,"end":9035.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9030.434093750002,"end":9031.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9035.41221875,"end":9039.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9039.867218750001,"end":9042.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9042.550343750001,"end":9055.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9044.997218750003,"end":9045.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9045.38534375,"end":9045.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9055.105343750001,"end":9055.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9055.122218750003,"end":9055.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9055.628468750001,"end":9055.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9055.72971875,"end":9055.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9055.915343750003,"end":9061.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9061.433468750001,"end":9062.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9063.120968750001,"end":9068.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":9068.47034375,"end":9068.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9068.605343750001,"end":9073.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9073.634093750003,"end":9076.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":9076.92471875,"end":9076.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9076.95846875,"end":9081.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9082.425968750002,"end":9082.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9083.168468750002,"end":9083.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9083.691593750002,"end":9085.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9086.20596875,"end":9086.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9086.965343750002,"end":9088.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9088.31534375,"end":9089.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9089.61471875,"end":9091.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9091.555343750002,"end":9094.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9094.559093750002,"end":9100.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9100.515968750002,"end":9112.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9112.530968750001,"end":9118.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9118.74096875,"end":9120.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9119.770343750002,"end":9119.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9119.80409375,"end":9119.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9119.820968750002,"end":9120.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9120.023468750001,"end":9120.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9120.175343750001,"end":9120.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9120.42846875,"end":9123.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9123.195968750002,"end":9125.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9125.997218750003,"end":9132.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9127.85346875,"end":9131.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9131.19471875,"end":9131.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9132.98346875,"end":9133.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9146.83784375,"end":9151.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9153.047843750002,"end":9159.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9159.81471875,"end":9163.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9164.168468750002,"end":9166.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9166.649093750002,"end":9168.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9174.816593750002,"end":9174.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9174.83346875,"end":9179.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9177.668468750002,"end":9179.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9181.39784375,"end":9182.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9184.82346875,"end":9186.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9186.81471875,"end":9187.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9187.540343750003,"end":9189.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":9193.78409375,"end":9193.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9193.800968750002,"end":9194.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9194.98221875,"end":9196.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9196.66971875,"end":9197.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9197.597843750002,"end":9206.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9207.520343750002,"end":9209.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9210.49034375,"end":9214.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9214.87784375,"end":9216.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9217.594718750002,"end":9217.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9218.70846875,"end":9218.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9218.72534375,"end":9218.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9218.742218750001,"end":9220.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9221.003468750001,"end":9222.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9222.42096875,"end":9225.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9225.10409375,"end":9232.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9226.09971875,"end":9227.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9232.44471875,"end":9235.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9235.97159375,"end":9246.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9246.957218750002,"end":9250.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9251.024093750002,"end":9255.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9256.25534375,"end":9256.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9257.622218750003,"end":9259.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9258.398468750001,"end":9258.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9260.237843750001,"end":9261.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9261.65534375,"end":9262.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9263.055968750003,"end":9267.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9263.140343750001,"end":9264.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9267.359093750001,"end":9267.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9267.375968750002,"end":9268.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9268.219718750002,"end":9272.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9272.320343750001,"end":9276.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9276.758468750002,"end":9286.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9286.191593750002,"end":9290.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9287.254718750002,"end":9289.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9290.528468750003,"end":9291.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9291.034718750001,"end":9291.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9291.102218750002,"end":9291.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9291.405968750001,"end":9291.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9293.110343750002,"end":9293.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9293.24534375,"end":9293.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9293.903468750003,"end":9293.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9293.92034375,"end":9294.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9294.07221875,"end":9294.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9295.118468750003,"end":9300.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9300.687218750001,"end":9302.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9302.40846875,"end":9303.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9304.382843750001,"end":9308.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9309.344093750002,"end":9310.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9310.727843750003,"end":9312.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9312.297218750002,"end":9317.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9318.22034375,"end":9319.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9320.852843750003,"end":9322.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9323.265968750002,"end":9325.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9326.792843750001,"end":9329.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9329.965343750002,"end":9331.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9332.445968750002,"end":9332.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9332.46284375,"end":9338.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9334.555343750002,"end":9344.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9345.456593750001,"end":9349.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9349.92846875,"end":9350.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9351.34596875,"end":9357.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9358.16346875,"end":9362.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9362.702843750001,"end":9367.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9367.57971875,"end":9372.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9373.469093750002,"end":9374.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9375.375968750002,"end":9376.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9377.29971875,"end":9377.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9378.98721875,"end":9384.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9384.79221875,"end":9391.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9392.132843750001,"end":9392.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9392.183468750001,"end":9392.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9392.200343750003,"end":9392.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9392.26784375,"end":9392.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9392.554718750001,"end":9393.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9393.027218750001,"end":9397.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9393.347843750002,"end":9393.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9396.300968750002,"end":9396.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9397.262843750003,"end":9400.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9401.042843750001,"end":9402.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9402.44346875,"end":9403.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9405.17721875,"end":9406.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9405.56534375,"end":9408.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9410.391593750002,"end":9412.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9410.57721875,"end":9411.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9411.84284375,"end":9412.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9412.93971875,"end":9412.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9412.99034375,"end":9413.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9413.445968750002,"end":9416.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9413.47971875,"end":9415.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9416.972843750002,"end":9417.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9417.10784375,"end":9423.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9423.503468750001,"end":9424.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9425.07284375,"end":9428.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9429.274718750003,"end":9438.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9438.67409375,"end":9444.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9445.89659375,"end":9450.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9451.094093750002,"end":9452.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9452.66346875,"end":9453.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9454.300343750001,"end":9455.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9455.785343750002,"end":9457.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9458.28284375,"end":9459.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9459.98721875,"end":9461.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9461.03346875,"end":9466.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9461.489093750002,"end":9467.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9468.15471875,"end":9470.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9471.546593750001,"end":9473.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9474.36471875,"end":9476.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9476.91284375,"end":9491.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9492.20159375,"end":9493.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9493.93971875,"end":9496.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9496.31909375,"end":9497.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9497.297843750002,"end":9513.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9511.320968750002,"end":9520.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9520.72034375,"end":9523.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9523.909718750001,"end":9524.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9524.770343750002,"end":9525.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9526.10346875,"end":9529.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9529.63034375,"end":9542.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9541.13909375,"end":9545.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9545.67846875,"end":9547.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9547.19721875,"end":9548.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9548.53034375,"end":9549.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9549.57659375,"end":9550.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9551.06159375,"end":9553.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9556.69784375,"end":9557.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9557.84534375,"end":9558.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9559.33034375,"end":9559.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9562.671593750001,"end":9563.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9566.97471875,"end":9582.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9583.259093750003,"end":9589.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9590.17784375,"end":9598.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9598.547843750002,"end":9610.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9610.714718750001,"end":9626.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9626.45909375,"end":9630.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9630.47534375,"end":9634.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9634.52534375,"end":9643.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9643.40159375,"end":9645.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9646.253468750001,"end":9662.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9662.47034375,"end":9675.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9675.801593750002,"end":9683.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9683.294093750003,"end":9685.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9686.297843750002,"end":9689.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9690.128468750001,"end":9695.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9696.22034375,"end":9698.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9698.414093750001,"end":9710.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9710.969093750002,"end":9711.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9712.16721875,"end":9713.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9713.58471875,"end":9716.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9716.976593750001,"end":9718.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9718.20846875,"end":9724.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9724.97534375,"end":9725.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9725.80221875,"end":9734.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9734.66159375,"end":9742.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9743.183468750001,"end":9743.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9744.68534375,"end":9750.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9748.12784375,"end":9749.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9749.91659375,"end":9763.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9760.446593750003,"end":9763.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9763.332218750002,"end":9765.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9765.711593750002,"end":9768.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9769.62659375,"end":9781.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9769.660343750002,"end":9769.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9769.74471875,"end":9770.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9770.79096875,"end":9775.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9775.97159375,"end":9776.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9781.03409375,"end":9781.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9781.320968750002,"end":9781.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9781.45596875,"end":9781.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9781.472843750002,"end":9781.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9781.540343750003,"end":9781.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9781.65846875,"end":9781.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9781.692218750002,"end":9784.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9782.13096875,"end":9784.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9784.88159375,"end":9784.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9784.915343750003,"end":9784.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9784.93221875,"end":9785.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9785.050343750001,"end":9795.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9785.219093750002,"end":9785.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9796.22159375,"end":9796.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9796.305968750003,"end":9801.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9801.28409375,"end":9802.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9803.07284375,"end":9809.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9803.089718750001,"end":9816.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9809.60346875,"end":9809.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9814.328468750002,"end":9822.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9822.15846875,"end":9837.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9822.242843750002,"end":9823.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9837.97034375,"end":9837.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9837.98721875,"end":9843.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9838.425968750002,"end":9839.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9843.30284375,"end":9849.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9843.35346875,"end":9845.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9845.88471875,"end":9847.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9849.968468750001,"end":9854.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9851.031593750002,"end":9852.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9855.21659375,"end":9860.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9861.34221875,"end":9869.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9864.649718750003,"end":9865.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9870.47159375,"end":9871.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9874.36971875,"end":9875.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9876.765968750002,"end":9878.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9877.980968750002,"end":9884.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9882.21659375,"end":9884.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9885.945968750002,"end":9887.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9889.45596875,"end":9889.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9889.962218750003,"end":9890.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9891.49784375,"end":9891.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9891.51471875,"end":9892.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9894.67034375,"end":9895.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9895.68284375,"end":9896.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9896.914718750002,"end":9897.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9898.83846875,"end":9901.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9904.52534375,"end":9904.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9905.554718750001,"end":9907.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9907.461593750002,"end":9918.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9918.61596875,"end":9920.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9921.77159375,"end":9923.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9923.72909375,"end":9923.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9924.269093750001,"end":9929.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9926.294093750003,"end":9928.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9928.09971875,"end":9928.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9930.141593750002,"end":9936.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9934.984718750002,"end":9942.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9943.371593750002,"end":9945.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9943.45596875,"end":9945.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9945.953468750002,"end":9947.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9948.704093750002,"end":9949.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9949.969718750002,"end":9952.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9952.484093750001,"end":9953.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9953.918468750002,"end":9956.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9956.41596875,"end":9960.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9961.47846875,"end":9964.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9963.16596875,"end":9964.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9964.12784375,"end":9964.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9964.48221875,"end":9965.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9965.579093750002,"end":9967.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9966.06846875,"end":9970.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9971.65409375,"end":9972.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9972.649718750003,"end":9974.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9974.72534375,"end":9975.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9975.687218750001,"end":9976.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9976.76721875,"end":9977.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9978.84284375,"end":9981.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9981.914093750001,"end":9983.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9983.669093750003,"end":9984.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9985.42409375,"end":9986.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9986.605343750001,"end":9986.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9986.622218750003,"end":9989.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9986.655968750001,"end":9987.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9989.96346875,"end":9991.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9991.81971875,"end":9992.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9993.11909375,"end":9993.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9994.047218750002,"end":9994.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9996.13971875,"end":9997.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9997.692218750002,"end":9998.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9999.683468750001,"end":10000.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10000.898468750001,"end":10004.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10005.134093750003,"end":10006.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10007.36159375,"end":10008.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10009.875968750002,"end":10011.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10012.761593750001,"end":10013.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10013.74034375,"end":10016.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10016.89596875,"end":10020.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10020.97971875,"end":10023.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10023.24096875,"end":10026.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10027.51034375,"end":10029.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10029.585968750001,"end":10032.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10032.67409375,"end":10037.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10038.074093750001,"end":10043.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10043.980343750001,"end":10045.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10045.667843750001,"end":10051.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10052.485343750002,"end":10059.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10060.31534375,"end":10061.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10061.19284375,"end":10062.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10063.04909375,"end":10072.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10067.47034375,"end":10072.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10072.97159375,"end":10080.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10081.105343750001,"end":10084.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10084.277843750002,"end":10085.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10086.62346875,"end":10089.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10089.69471875,"end":10092.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10092.816593750002,"end":10119.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10119.023468750001,"end":10119.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10119.41159375,"end":10119.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10119.68159375,"end":10119.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10119.83346875,"end":10125.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10120.035968750002,"end":10120.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10140.89346875,"end":10141.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10141.703468750002,"end":10145.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10145.95596875,"end":10149.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10150.461593750002,"end":10152.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10150.79909375,"end":10155.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10156.587218750003,"end":10158.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10158.96659375,"end":10176.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10176.719093750002,"end":10179.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10179.63846875,"end":10179.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10179.942218750002,"end":10183.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10191.13034375,"end":10195.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10191.484718750002,"end":10191.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10202.43659375,"end":10204.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10205.37284375,"end":10207.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10216.02096875,"end":10216.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10217.25284375,"end":10220.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10220.98221875,"end":10220.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10222.855343750001,"end":10224.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10225.184093750002,"end":10226.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10226.36534375,"end":10227.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10227.614093750002,"end":10232.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10232.64284375,"end":10248.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10248.87659375,"end":10249.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10249.602218750002,"end":10251.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10251.019718750002,"end":10254.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10251.120968750001,"end":10251.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10254.023468750001,"end":10258.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10257.36471875,"end":10268.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10262.24159375,"end":10262.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10268.805968750003,"end":10272.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10273.075343750003,"end":10273.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10274.40846875,"end":10279.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10278.67784375,"end":10291.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10282.356593750003,"end":10283.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10284.78659375,"end":10284.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10292.515343750001,"end":10304.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10304.024093750002,"end":10315.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10315.58346875,"end":10320.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10320.66284375,"end":10320.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10321.101593750001,"end":10321.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10321.962218750003,"end":10333.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":10330.011593750001,"end":10331.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10334.652218750001,"end":10334.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10334.68596875,"end":10342.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10341.824093750001,"end":10348.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10347.02159375,"end":10353.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10349.87346875,"end":10350.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10352.92784375,"end":10395.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10363.22159375,"end":10364.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10395.840968750003,"end":10395.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10396.769093750001,"end":10410.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10411.180343750002,"end":10411.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10411.399718750003,"end":10412.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10411.652843750002,"end":10416.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10412.277218750001,"end":10412.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10417.086593750002,"end":10422.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10422.68909375,"end":10425.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10426.266593750002,"end":10427.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10427.852843750003,"end":10428.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10428.91596875,"end":10432.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10432.915343750003,"end":10435.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10435.19346875,"end":10435.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10436.08784375,"end":10437.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10437.50534375,"end":10441.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10441.11659375,"end":10449.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10449.672218750002,"end":10449.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10449.925343750001,"end":10456.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10456.87784375,"end":10457.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10457.02971875,"end":10459.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10459.66221875,"end":10461.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10461.805343750002,"end":10468.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10468.42034375,"end":10469.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10469.972843750002,"end":10474.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10474.259093750003,"end":10477.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10474.292843750001,"end":10474.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10477.718468750001,"end":10478.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10479.355343750001,"end":10480.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10480.55346875,"end":10482.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10482.899093750002,"end":10483.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10484.046593750001,"end":10484.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10484.890343750001,"end":10494.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10493.597843750002,"end":10524.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10524.20909375,"end":10527.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10527.449093750001,"end":10532.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10531.566593750002,"end":10531.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10532.76471875,"end":10549.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10549.89284375,"end":10566.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10566.649718750003,"end":10568.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10569.383468750002,"end":10571.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10572.066593750002,"end":10577.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10577.31471875,"end":10578.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10578.52971875,"end":10582.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10582.360343750002,"end":10583.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10584.149093750002,"end":10585.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10585.617218750001,"end":10586.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10587.051593750002,"end":10591.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10590.257843750001,"end":10621.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10621.40909375,"end":10622.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10622.809718750003,"end":10654.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10654.973468750002,"end":10655.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10655.31096875,"end":10656.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10656.57659375,"end":10658.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10659.27659375,"end":10662.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":10663.394093750001,"end":10663.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10663.96784375,"end":10669.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10668.96284375,"end":10686.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10686.985343750002,"end":10691.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10690.782218750002,"end":10692.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10692.030968750001,"end":10692.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10692.081593750001,"end":10692.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10692.13221875,"end":10692.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10692.199718750002,"end":10692.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10692.21659375,"end":10718.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10719.06471875,"end":10719.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10719.722843750002,"end":10721.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10721.781593750002,"end":10723.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10724.380343750003,"end":10726.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10726.590968750003,"end":10727.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10727.62034375,"end":10759.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10760.121593750002,"end":10760.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10761.117218750001,"end":10766.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10766.972843750002,"end":10770.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10771.64721875,"end":10773.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10774.195343750001,"end":10776.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10775.984093750001,"end":10776.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10777.35096875,"end":10777.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10778.144093750001,"end":10780.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":10781.164718750002,"end":10781.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10781.333468750003,"end":10789.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10789.61909375,"end":10790.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10791.171593750001,"end":10810.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10811.20221875,"end":10811.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10811.99534375,"end":10816.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10817.277218750001,"end":10840.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10840.73346875,"end":10844.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10844.192843750003,"end":10846.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10846.707218750002,"end":10855.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10855.094093750002,"end":10856.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10857.91221875,"end":10858.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10859.24534375,"end":10859.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10859.27909375,"end":10860.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10860.409718750001,"end":10860.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10860.66284375,"end":10860.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10860.696593750003,"end":10862.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10863.059093750002,"end":10864.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10864.594718750002,"end":10865.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10865.94471875,"end":10866.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10866.636593750001,"end":10867.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10867.83471875,"end":10869.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10869.859718750002,"end":10875.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10872.89721875,"end":10881.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10881.351593750001,"end":10881.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10882.02659375,"end":10883.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10883.039093750001,"end":10883.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10883.29221875,"end":10883.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10884.13596875,"end":10885.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10886.07659375,"end":10888.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10888.55721875,"end":10893.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10893.51846875,"end":10894.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10895.003468750001,"end":10896.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10896.20159375,"end":10897.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10896.47159375,"end":10909.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10909.07721875,"end":10909.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10909.735343750002,"end":10909.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10909.95471875,"end":10910.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10910.91659375,"end":10912.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10910.933468750001,"end":10912.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10912.637843750003,"end":10913.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10914.24096875,"end":10918.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10918.98284375,"end":10920.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10921.19346875,"end":10931.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10931.622218750003,"end":10934.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10934.625968750002,"end":10937.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10937.96721875,"end":10939.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10939.03034375,"end":10939.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10940.44784375,"end":10940.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10940.481593750003,"end":10941.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10942.50659375,"end":10944.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10944.56534375,"end":10948.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10948.51409375,"end":10952.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10952.699093750001,"end":10956.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10957.390343750001,"end":10959.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10959.11159375,"end":10986.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10986.567218750002,"end":10990.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10990.836593750002,"end":10991.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10992.16971875,"end":10993.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10993.82346875,"end":10996.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10995.66284375,"end":11041.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11040.38159375,"end":11054.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11051.29971875,"end":11052.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11052.54846875,"end":11069.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11069.524718750003,"end":11083.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11084.121593750002,"end":11084.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11084.93159375,"end":11089.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11089.53846875,"end":11097.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11096.625968750002,"end":11117.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11117.09534375,"end":11118.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11118.985343750002,"end":11119.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11123.575343750003,"end":11127.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11129.009093750003,"end":11133.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11134.122218750003,"end":11136.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11136.50159375,"end":11139.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11139.505343750003,"end":11147.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11148.246593750002,"end":11148.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11150.37284375,"end":11152.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11152.92096875,"end":11154.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11161.71284375,"end":11162.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11163.265343750001,"end":11164.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11165.35784375,"end":11167.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":11175.95534375,"end":11176.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11176.84971875,"end":11177.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11177.64284375,"end":11177.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11178.65534375,"end":11178.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11178.672218750002,"end":11180.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11180.96721875,"end":11183.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11184.86534375,"end":11186.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11187.83534375,"end":11189.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11191.227218750002,"end":11191.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11192.745968750001,"end":11193.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11194.450343750003,"end":11197.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11197.926593750002,"end":11197.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11199.293468750002,"end":11200.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11201.47034375,"end":11203.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11204.187218750001,"end":11205.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11205.97596875,"end":11212.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11212.253468750001,"end":11216.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11216.691593750002,"end":11218.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11217.51846875,"end":11220.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11218.63221875,"end":11219.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11220.640343750001,"end":11220.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11220.87659375,"end":11222.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11223.390968750002,"end":11225.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11223.593468750001,"end":11224.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11224.09971875,"end":11224.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11226.462218750003,"end":11227.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11227.829093750002,"end":11230.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11231.44034375,"end":11233.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11231.79471875,"end":11234.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11234.039093750001,"end":11238.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11239.152218750001,"end":11243.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11241.109718750002,"end":11241.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":11241.97034375,"end":11242.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":11242.122218750003,"end":11242.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11243.050343750001,"end":11248.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11248.602218750002,"end":11251.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11251.69034375,"end":11253.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11253.36096875,"end":11254.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11255.149718750003,"end":11256.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11255.31846875,"end":11256.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11256.48284375,"end":11257.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11257.343468750001,"end":11258.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11259.16596875,"end":11262.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11263.249718750001,"end":11263.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11263.85721875,"end":11265.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11266.23659375,"end":11276.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11267.77221875,"end":11269.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11277.019718750002,"end":11278.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11278.25159375,"end":11281.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11283.145343750002,"end":11284.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11285.457218750002,"end":11289.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11291.110343750002,"end":11291.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11292.02159375,"end":11295.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11296.34159375,"end":11298.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11299.98659375,"end":11301.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11301.37034375,"end":11302.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11302.602218750002,"end":11310.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11311.37721875,"end":11312.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11313.33471875,"end":11314.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11314.65096875,"end":11315.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11316.152843750002,"end":11318.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11319.96659375,"end":11325.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11323.81409375,"end":11330.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11326.61534375,"end":11327.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11330.243468750003,"end":11330.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11330.918468750002,"end":11331.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11331.087218750003,"end":11332.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11331.289718750002,"end":11332.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11332.94346875,"end":11332.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11333.078468750002,"end":11334.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11335.660343750002,"end":11336.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11337.145343750002,"end":11338.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11338.90034375,"end":11339.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11340.098468750002,"end":11342.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11342.562218750001,"end":11344.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11345.684093750002,"end":11348.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11349.19409375,"end":11349.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11350.274093750002,"end":11354.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11354.93159375,"end":11356.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11356.73721875,"end":11359.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11360.297843750002,"end":11363.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11364.48284375,"end":11367.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11368.769093750001,"end":11369.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11369.71409375,"end":11370.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11371.097843750002,"end":11373.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11374.067843750003,"end":11376.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11377.93221875,"end":11379.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11380.058468750001,"end":11380.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11380.125968750002,"end":11380.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11380.24409375,"end":11383.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11380.26096875,"end":11381.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11382.10034375,"end":11385.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11385.644093750001,"end":11386.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11387.11221875,"end":11387.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11388.73221875,"end":11393.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11393.777843750002,"end":11394.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11396.157218750002,"end":11398.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11398.28346875,"end":11400.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11401.253468750001,"end":11402.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11402.77221875,"end":11405.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11404.40909375,"end":11404.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11405.961593750002,"end":11410.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11411.918468750002,"end":11416.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11412.019718750002,"end":11413.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11414.51721875,"end":11415.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11415.63096875,"end":11425.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11424.405968750001,"end":11425.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11426.34659375,"end":11428.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11428.962218750003,"end":11429.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11429.65409375,"end":11431.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11432.77596875,"end":11435.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11435.391593750002,"end":11437.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11437.21409375,"end":11438.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11438.78346875,"end":11441.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11442.64784375,"end":11444.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11445.077843750001,"end":11446.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11448.06471875,"end":11448.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11449.49909375,"end":11450.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11450.410343750002,"end":11452.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11450.427218750003,"end":11450.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11452.97534375,"end":11454.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11454.426593750002,"end":11456.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11457.02534375,"end":11462.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11458.40909375,"end":11458.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11461.68284375,"end":11464.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11464.61909375,"end":11465.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11465.36159375,"end":11465.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11466.32346875,"end":11468.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11470.035968750002,"end":11478.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11478.49034375,"end":11481.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11482.35471875,"end":11487.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11486.82659375,"end":11493.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11493.30659375,"end":11496.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11496.47909375,"end":11498.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11498.200343750003,"end":11500.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11500.815968750001,"end":11502.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11502.16596875,"end":11507.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11507.785343750002,"end":11508.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11508.308468750001,"end":11508.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11508.426593750002,"end":11508.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11508.51096875,"end":11509.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11508.56159375,"end":11509.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11509.70909375,"end":11509.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11509.742843750002,"end":11509.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11510.333468750003,"end":11513.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11513.60721875,"end":11516.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11513.759093750003,"end":11513.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11514.02909375,"end":11514.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11514.332843750002,"end":11514.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11515.29471875,"end":11516.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11517.269093750001,"end":11522.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11522.16284375,"end":11522.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11523.22596875,"end":11523.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11523.563468750002,"end":11523.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11523.64784375,"end":11523.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11523.78284375,"end":11524.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11524.035968750002,"end":11529.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11530.80284375,"end":11532.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11532.777218750001,"end":11535.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11535.49409375,"end":11538.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11538.51471875,"end":11539.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11539.274093750002,"end":11540.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11539.30784375,"end":11546.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11541.24846875,"end":11541.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11544.42096875,"end":11546.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11546.42909375,"end":11551.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11548.859093750001,"end":11550.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11551.22159375,"end":11555.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11552.723468750002,"end":11560.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11556.11534375,"end":11557.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11559.000968750002,"end":11564.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11565.160343750002,"end":11568.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11568.87284375,"end":11570.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11571.235343750002,"end":11572.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11571.42096875,"end":11572.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11572.484093750001,"end":11574.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11574.964718750001,"end":11576.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11577.040343750003,"end":11580.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11579.824718750002,"end":11580.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11580.75284375,"end":11580.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11581.17471875,"end":11583.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11583.16596875,"end":11584.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11584.769093750001,"end":11584.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11584.90409375,"end":11584.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11584.92096875,"end":11585.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11585.140343750001,"end":11587.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11587.08096875,"end":11590.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11590.742843750002,"end":11593.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11593.72971875,"end":11596.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11597.290343750003,"end":11598.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11598.437843750002,"end":11600.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11599.46721875,"end":11601.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11601.542843750001,"end":11602.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11602.285343750002,"end":11602.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11602.57221875,"end":11603.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11602.84221875,"end":11603.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11603.230343750001,"end":11603.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11603.78721875,"end":11604.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11603.820968750002,"end":11604.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11604.512843750003,"end":11604.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11604.884093750003,"end":11606.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11606.04846875,"end":11613.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11613.97971875,"end":11620.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11620.122218750003,"end":11620.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11620.35846875,"end":11621.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11620.61159375,"end":11621.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11621.860343750002,"end":11624.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11624.67846875,"end":11626.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11627.68221875,"end":11629.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11630.16284375,"end":11634.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11632.49159375,"end":11632.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11633.26784375,"end":11633.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11634.347843750002,"end":11634.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11634.398468750001,"end":11637.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11634.43221875,"end":11635.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11637.672218750002,"end":11641.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11642.312843750002,"end":11643.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11644.793468750002,"end":11652.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11646.93659375,"end":11647.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11648.286593750003,"end":11655.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11654.817218750002,"end":11663.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11662.934093750002,"end":11667.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11667.16971875,"end":11668.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11668.941593750002,"end":11669.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11670.274718750003,"end":11671.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11672.24909375,"end":11677.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11676.02909375,"end":11682.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11683.504718750002,"end":11686.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11691.351593750001,"end":11692.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11696.430968750003,"end":11698.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11698.793468750002,"end":11700.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11700.734093750001,"end":11702.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11703.180968750003,"end":11703.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11704.14284375,"end":11705.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11705.442218750002,"end":11705.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11706.79221875,"end":11708.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11709.32346875,"end":11711.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11712.411593750003,"end":11712.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11713.64346875,"end":11715.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11716.15784375,"end":11717.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11717.946593750003,"end":11719.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11719.988468750002,"end":11721.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11722.469093750002,"end":11723.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11724.56159375,"end":11726.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11727.88596875,"end":11730.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11730.231593750003,"end":11731.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11732.03721875,"end":11732.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11732.070968750002,"end":11732.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11733.707843750002,"end":11736.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11736.67784375,"end":11738.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11738.567843750003,"end":11739.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11738.669093750003,"end":11740.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11741.200343750003,"end":11742.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11741.976593750001,"end":11744.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11743.96784375,"end":11744.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11744.997218750003,"end":11746.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11746.53284375,"end":11750.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11750.160968750002,"end":11751.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11750.17784375,"end":11750.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11750.954093750002,"end":11751.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11752.01721875,"end":11760.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11755.34159375,"end":11757.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11758.581593750001,"end":11762.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11762.547218750002,"end":11763.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11763.593468750001,"end":11764.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11764.403468750003,"end":11764.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11764.454093750002,"end":11764.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11764.504718750002,"end":11764.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11764.977218750002,"end":11765.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11765.027843750002,"end":11765.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11765.449718750002,"end":11765.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11765.80409375,"end":11765.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11765.83784375,"end":11766.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11766.73221875,"end":11770.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11771.153468750003,"end":11773.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11772.75659375,"end":11774.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11775.06846875,"end":11776.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11777.17784375,"end":11777.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11778.257843750001,"end":11778.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11779.30409375,"end":11783.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11783.62409375,"end":11784.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11786.222843750002,"end":11788.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11789.42909375,"end":11790.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11790.30659375,"end":11791.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11792.601593750001,"end":11794.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11795.04846875,"end":11795.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11795.90909375,"end":11796.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11797.208468750003,"end":11798.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11799.33471875,"end":11801.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11801.12346875,"end":11803.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11804.464718750001,"end":11806.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11807.535968750002,"end":11809.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11809.375343750002,"end":11809.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11810.82659375,"end":11811.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11812.227218750002,"end":11814.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11815.382843750001,"end":11817.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11817.84659375,"end":11819.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11820.20909375,"end":11821.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11822.099093750003,"end":11823.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11824.52909375,"end":11825.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11826.06471875,"end":11827.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11828.59596875,"end":11830.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11831.29596875,"end":11832.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11832.98346875,"end":11834.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11835.008468750002,"end":11836.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11836.847843750002,"end":11841.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11840.391593750002,"end":11843.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11844.35721875,"end":11846.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11846.31471875,"end":11854.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11854.97159375,"end":11856.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11855.612843750001,"end":11859.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11858.211593750002,"end":11859.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11861.08034375,"end":11863.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11864.18534375,"end":11866.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11867.35784375,"end":11868.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11869.112843750001,"end":11870.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11870.47971875,"end":11871.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11871.610343750002,"end":11872.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11872.487843750001,"end":11872.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11873.80409375,"end":11875.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11875.96409375,"end":11877.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11878.461593750002,"end":11879.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11880.621593750002,"end":11881.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11881.97159375,"end":11883.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11883.96284375,"end":11885.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11885.54909375,"end":11887.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11887.995968750001,"end":11888.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11888.72159375,"end":11891.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11892.231593750003,"end":11892.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11892.265343750001,"end":11892.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11892.602843750003,"end":11892.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11892.805343750002,"end":11894.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11892.855968750002,"end":11893.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11894.391593750002,"end":11899.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11899.47096875,"end":11912.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11909.359718750002,"end":11913.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11914.000343750002,"end":11916.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11914.45596875,"end":11916.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11916.51471875,"end":11920.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11920.379093750002,"end":11920.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11920.902218750001,"end":11921.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11921.25659375,"end":11922.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11922.67409375,"end":11929.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11925.914093750001,"end":11931.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11930.183468750001,"end":11930.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11932.815968750001,"end":11934.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11935.735343750002,"end":11937.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11938.958468750003,"end":11939.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11940.949718750002,"end":11944.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11946.535343750002,"end":11948.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11949.387218750002,"end":11950.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11951.175968750002,"end":11953.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11954.48346875,"end":11955.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11955.69846875,"end":11957.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11957.774093750002,"end":11958.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11959.292843750001,"end":11959.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11960.136593750001,"end":11960.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11961.672218750002,"end":11963.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11963.44409375,"end":11967.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11968.742843750002,"end":11969.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11970.312218750001,"end":11971.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11972.18534375,"end":11972.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11973.40034375,"end":11975.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11976.336593750002,"end":11977.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11978.226593750001,"end":11979.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11979.79596875,"end":11981.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11982.664718750002,"end":11983.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11984.47034375,"end":11985.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11985.837218750003,"end":11986.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11986.731593750003,"end":11988.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11988.85784375,"end":11990.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11990.96721875,"end":11991.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11991.692843750003,"end":11992.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11994.274718750003,"end":11995.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11995.574093750001,"end":12001.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12001.547843750002,"end":12004.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12004.973468750002,"end":12006.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12006.509093750003,"end":12006.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12007.032218750002,"end":12007.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12008.36534375,"end":12013.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12013.86659375,"end":12027.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12025.30784375,"end":12027.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12028.227218750002,"end":12031.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12032.074718750002,"end":12039.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12040.394093750001,"end":12045.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12040.765343750001,"end":12041.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12045.60846875,"end":12048.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12045.827843750001,"end":12046.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12048.71346875,"end":12051.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12051.750968750002,"end":12051.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12051.97034375,"end":12052.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12052.08846875,"end":12052.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12052.847843750002,"end":12066.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12052.915343750003,"end":12053.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12053.843468750001,"end":12054.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12054.974093750003,"end":12055.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12065.21721875,"end":12066.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12066.550343750001,"end":12067.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12068.474093750003,"end":12071.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12070.49909375,"end":12074.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12072.000968750002,"end":12072.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12072.06846875,"end":12072.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12074.262218750002,"end":12078.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12102.34221875,"end":12115.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12117.090968750003,"end":12124.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12117.22596875,"end":12117.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12119.352218750002,"end":12119.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12901.356593750003,"end":12904.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21609.68346875,"end":21620.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21620.97284375,"end":21623.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21623.639093750004,"end":21627.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21644.192843750003,"end":21648.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21649.22159375,"end":21651.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21651.53346875,"end":21652.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21652.832843750002,"end":21653.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21653.271593750003,"end":21653.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21653.30534375,"end":21654.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21653.33909375,"end":21653.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21654.60471875,"end":21657.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21667.68284375,"end":21667.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21667.699718750002,"end":21668.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21668.374718749998,"end":21668.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21669.16784375,"end":21669.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21669.184718750003,"end":21672.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21670.19721875,"end":21670.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21673.319093750004,"end":21674.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21675.17534375,"end":21676.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21676.592843750004,"end":21677.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21677.77409375,"end":21677.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21678.904718750004,"end":21681.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21682.684718750003,"end":21684.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21685.739093750002,"end":21688.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21689.38409375,"end":21690.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21690.717218750004,"end":21691.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21693.012218750002,"end":21694.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21696.201593750004,"end":21697.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21698.429093749997,"end":21699.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21700.47096875,"end":21703.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21704.419718750003,"end":21709.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21710.71409375,"end":21711.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21712.26659375,"end":21715.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21716.19846875,"end":21717.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21717.24471875,"end":21717.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21719.826593750004,"end":21722.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21723.35346875,"end":21723.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21724.028468750003,"end":21725.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21726.94784375,"end":21727.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21728.280968749998,"end":21728.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21729.05721875,"end":21732.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21733.140968749998,"end":21735.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21735.975968749997,"end":21738.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21739.50284375,"end":21740.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21741.89909375,"end":21744.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21745.459718750004,"end":21746.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21747.18096875,"end":21747.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21748.44659375,"end":21749.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21750.67409375,"end":21751.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21752.496593750002,"end":21754.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21756.05721875,"end":21757.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21757.491593749997,"end":21757.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21758.06534375,"end":21759.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21760.15784375,"end":21767.295968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21768.91596875,"end":21768.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21768.966593750003,"end":21769.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21769.54034375,"end":21769.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21769.67534375,"end":21769.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21769.692218750002,"end":21770.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21771.210968749998,"end":21771.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21772.49346875,"end":21777.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21777.539093749998,"end":21780.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21781.605968750002,"end":21782.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21782.97284375,"end":21787.124093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21787.444718749997,"end":21792.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21791.59596875,"end":21795.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21796.87784375,"end":21802.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21802.36221875,"end":21802.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21802.514093750004,"end":21805.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21805.92284375,"end":21808.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21809.804093749997,"end":21812.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21813.077843749998,"end":21815.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21815.96346875,"end":21817.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21816.672218749998,"end":21817.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21818.140343749998,"end":21819.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21819.52409375,"end":21822.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21823.74284375,"end":21824.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21825.615968750004,"end":21831.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21831.58971875,"end":21838.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":21834.30659375,"end":21835.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21838.913468749997,"end":21840.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21843.18284375,"end":21846.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21846.405968749998,"end":21847.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21848.54909375,"end":21849.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21849.30846875,"end":21850.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21851.249093750004,"end":21853.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21854.320343749998,"end":21856.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21857.340968750003,"end":21859.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21861.458468750003,"end":21862.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21862.57221875,"end":21863.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21863.55096875,"end":21865.913468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21866.70659375,"end":21868.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21870.621593750002,"end":21873.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21874.36784375,"end":21875.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21875.414093749998,"end":21876.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21877.23659375,"end":21878.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21878.687843749998,"end":21879.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21879.615968750004,"end":21880.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21881.25284375,"end":21882.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21883.88534375,"end":21885.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21886.247843750003,"end":21887.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21889.437218749998,"end":21890.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21890.85471875,"end":21892.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21892.93034375,"end":21895.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21897.92534375,"end":21899.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21900.372218750003,"end":21902.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21905.147843749997,"end":21905.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21906.295343750004,"end":21909.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21910.514093750004,"end":21912.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21913.146593750003,"end":21920.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21922.49534375,"end":21924.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21925.41471875,"end":21927.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21929.093468749998,"end":21930.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21931.101593749998,"end":21931.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21932.38409375,"end":21933.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21934.544093750003,"end":21935.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21936.11346875,"end":21937.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21939.35346875,"end":21939.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21939.99471875,"end":21940.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21941.192843750003,"end":21942.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21943.26846875,"end":21946.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21947.655968749998,"end":21949.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21950.72721875,"end":21953.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21955.62096875,"end":21956.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21958.304093749997,"end":21961.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21962.185343750003,"end":21963.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21963.771593750003,"end":21964.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21964.817843750003,"end":21967.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21968.56409375,"end":21969.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21970.48784375,"end":21970.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21971.19659375,"end":21972.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21973.64346875,"end":21974.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21974.402843750002,"end":21974.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21975.280343750004,"end":21975.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21976.444718749997,"end":21979.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21980.325968750003,"end":21981.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":21982.249718749998,"end":21983.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21984.20721875,"end":21988.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21988.476593749998,"end":21989.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21990.045968750004,"end":21990.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21991.075343750003,"end":21991.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21992.762843750003,"end":21996.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21996.998468750004,"end":22001.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22001.858468750004,"end":22002.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22003.090343750002,"end":22011.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22012.32096875,"end":22017.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22018.193468750003,"end":22020.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22022.969093749998,"end":22034.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22034.865968750004,"end":22035.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22036.36784375,"end":22036.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22037.04284375,"end":22040.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22040.41784375,"end":22045.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22046.138468750003,"end":22047.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22047.505343750003,"end":22049.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22049.90159375,"end":22049.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22049.969093749998,"end":22050.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22051.217843750004,"end":22053.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22053.68159375,"end":22055.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22056.162218750003,"end":22056.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22056.989093750002,"end":22057.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22058.676593750002,"end":22060.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22061.27534375,"end":22064.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22062.608468750004,"end":22063.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22064.515343749998,"end":22064.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22066.11846875,"end":22067.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22069.358468750004,"end":22072.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22073.138468750003,"end":22073.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22074.741593749997,"end":22075.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22077.22221875,"end":22082.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22083.02721875,"end":22085.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22085.94659375,"end":22092.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22093.45596875,"end":22093.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22094.215343750002,"end":22096.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22097.168468750002,"end":22099.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22100.20596875,"end":22103.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22104.42471875,"end":22107.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22107.24284375,"end":22109.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22110.12846875,"end":22110.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22110.65159375,"end":22117.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22110.83721875,"end":22111.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":22111.36034375,"end":22111.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22111.57971875,"end":22111.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22117.50284375,"end":22119.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22119.40971875,"end":22120.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22121.232218750003,"end":22123.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22124.15159375,"end":22130.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22130.66534375,"end":22137.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22137.09471875,"end":22141.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22141.66784375,"end":22142.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22143.287843750004,"end":22146.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22146.426593750002,"end":22146.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22146.882218749997,"end":22146.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22146.966593750003,"end":22147.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22147.21971875,"end":22147.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22147.23659375,"end":22147.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22147.590968750003,"end":22147.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22147.607843750004,"end":22148.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22148.48534375,"end":22148.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22148.50221875,"end":22158.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22155.04971875,"end":22155.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":22155.06659375,"end":22156.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22159.116593749997,"end":22159.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22160.145968750003,"end":22164.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22164.280343750004,"end":22170.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22170.169718750003,"end":22174.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22175.06346875,"end":22183.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22182.55596875,"end":22183.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22183.82159375,"end":22186.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22186.97721875,"end":22188.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22189.23846875,"end":22190.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22190.757218749997,"end":22191.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22191.820343749998,"end":22195.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22195.83659375,"end":22197.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22198.78971875,"end":22200.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22200.983468750004,"end":22205.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22205.404718750004,"end":22208.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22209.37034375,"end":22213.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22214.584718750004,"end":22216.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22217.234093749998,"end":22220.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22220.96346875,"end":22222.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22222.54971875,"end":22224.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22226.53221875,"end":22230.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22231.544093750003,"end":22236.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22237.230968750002,"end":22244.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22244.655968749998,"end":22248.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22249.617218749998,"end":22249.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22250.15721875,"end":22267.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22267.67346875,"end":22278.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22277.730968750002,"end":22280.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22279.60409375,"end":22284.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22281.848468750002,"end":22282.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22284.14346875,"end":22285.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22285.240343750003,"end":22294.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22286.43846875,"end":22287.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22293.08721875,"end":22295.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22296.546593749998,"end":22308.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22308.27471875,"end":22310.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22310.755343750003,"end":22311.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22310.974718750003,"end":22313.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22314.332843750002,"end":22315.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22315.54784375,"end":22320.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22321.082843750002,"end":22330.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22330.380968750003,"end":22334.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22334.54909375,"end":22335.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22335.645968750003,"end":22336.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22336.89471875,"end":22341.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22340.13471875,"end":22343.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22344.77534375,"end":22345.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22346.88471875,"end":22348.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22350.58034375,"end":22356.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22357.53284375,"end":22357.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":22357.54971875,"end":22357.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22359.270968750003,"end":22362.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22362.69659375,"end":22363.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22363.725968749997,"end":22365.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22368.40034375,"end":22372.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":22373.074718750002,"end":22373.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22373.412218750003,"end":22376.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22377.36096875,"end":22391.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22392.835343749997,"end":22401.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22401.64409375,"end":22404.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22404.37784375,"end":22413.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22413.405968749998,"end":22421.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22423.429718749998,"end":22424.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22423.48034375,"end":22428.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22424.94846875,"end":22426.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22428.10409375,"end":22437.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22438.364093750002,"end":22440.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22440.085343749997,"end":22444.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22444.422218749998,"end":22453.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22454.14221875,"end":22457.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22458.732218750003,"end":22458.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22458.765968749998,"end":22458.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22458.81659375,"end":22458.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22458.968468749998,"end":22459.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22459.035968750002,"end":22459.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22459.12034375,"end":22460.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22460.47034375,"end":22468.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22468.36784375,"end":22475.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22476.18096875,"end":22479.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22479.47159375,"end":22480.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22480.889093750004,"end":22485.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22485.715343750002,"end":22492.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22492.600343750004,"end":22496.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22497.49409375,"end":22499.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22499.687843749998,"end":22501.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22501.49346875,"end":22507.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22508.80034375,"end":22510.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22511.09534375,"end":22513.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22514.16659375,"end":22521.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22523.059718750003,"end":22524.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22525.101593749998,"end":22527.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22527.46409375,"end":22528.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22529.13471875,"end":22530.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22530.53534375,"end":22538.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22538.97284375,"end":22539.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22539.411593750003,"end":22540.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22540.035968750002,"end":22541.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22542.364718750003,"end":22544.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22544.710343749997,"end":22551.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22551.966593750003,"end":22558.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22558.76721875,"end":22563.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22563.71159375,"end":22567.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22567.94721875,"end":22570.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22570.107218750003,"end":22570.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22570.967843750004,"end":22572.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":22572.115343750003,"end":22572.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22572.537218750003,"end":22573.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22578.257843749998,"end":22582.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22584.41721875,"end":22584.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22584.585968749998,"end":22584.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":22584.61971875,"end":22584.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22584.82221875,"end":22584.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22585.193468750003,"end":22592.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22594.08659375,"end":22597.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22617.914093749998,"end":22620.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22621.373468750004,"end":22622.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":22631.14409375,"end":22631.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22632.39284375,"end":22639.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22639.193468750003,"end":22648.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22649.234093749998,"end":22654.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22655.629718750002,"end":22656.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22657.82346875,"end":22658.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22659.20721875,"end":22659.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22660.388468750003,"end":22662.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22662.379718750002,"end":22662.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22663.459718750004,"end":22666.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22666.615343750003,"end":22672.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22674.006593750004,"end":22674.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22674.107843750004,"end":22677.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22678.78221875,"end":22679.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22680.14909375,"end":22682.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22682.71409375,"end":22684.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22684.317218750002,"end":22684.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22685.599718750003,"end":22687.827218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22688.367218749998,"end":22690.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22690.49346875,"end":22697.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22698.12096875,"end":22708.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22709.07284375,"end":22712.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22712.63346875,"end":22714.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22714.810343750003,"end":22717.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22717.459718750004,"end":22722.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22722.97784375,"end":22723.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22723.31534375,"end":22735.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22723.33221875,"end":22723.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22735.819718749997,"end":22742.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22742.687843749998,"end":22750.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22751.007218749997,"end":22754.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22754.95596875,"end":22783.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22783.694093750004,"end":22784.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22784.554718749998,"end":22794.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22795.287218750003,"end":22797.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22795.405343750004,"end":22796.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22796.772218750004,"end":22799.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22798.93221875,"end":22799.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22799.67471875,"end":22803.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22799.826593750004,"end":22804.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22804.028468750003,"end":22807.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22808.23034375,"end":22813.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22813.984718749998,"end":22821.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22821.83159375,"end":22826.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22827.18096875,"end":22827.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22828.311593750004,"end":22835.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22835.905343750004,"end":22838.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22838.77409375,"end":22845.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22842.317843750003,"end":22842.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22842.36846875,"end":22843.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22845.068468750003,"end":22852.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22852.59471875,"end":22855.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22855.699718750002,"end":22857.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22858.01159375,"end":22860.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22860.272843749997,"end":22868.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22867.630343750003,"end":22868.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22869.18284375,"end":22871.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22872.01784375,"end":22876.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22874.00909375,"end":22875.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":22875.325343750003,"end":22875.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22876.97909375,"end":22877.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":22877.012843750003,"end":22877.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22877.333468750003,"end":22877.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22878.02534375,"end":22882.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22883.121593750002,"end":22885.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22886.04096875,"end":22896.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22896.70596875,"end":22919.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22920.34784375,"end":22921.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22921.37721875,"end":22928.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22928.582843750002,"end":22929.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22929.848468750002,"end":22933.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22933.645343750002,"end":22938.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22938.640343749998,"end":22946.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22946.50409375,"end":22956.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22956.73034375,"end":22966.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22967.04096875,"end":22969.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22969.639718750004,"end":22971.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22972.154093750003,"end":22974.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22974.95534375,"end":22976.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22976.811593750004,"end":22978.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22978.75221875,"end":22982.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22982.66721875,"end":22986.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22986.14346875,"end":22986.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22986.32909375,"end":22995.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22987.459718750004,"end":22988.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22995.593468749998,"end":22995.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":22995.62721875,"end":22999.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22996.724093750003,"end":22997.601593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22998.428468750004,"end":22999.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22999.82909375,"end":23008.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23008.671593749998,"end":23029.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23027.89221875,"end":23028.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23030.42346875,"end":23041.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23041.42596875,"end":23045.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23045.543468750002,"end":23050.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23051.39909375,"end":23062.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23061.23721875,"end":23076.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23066.114093750002,"end":23066.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23066.130968750003,"end":23066.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23077.58909375,"end":23079.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23080.980968750002,"end":23095.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23095.780343750004,"end":23100.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23100.37034375,"end":23100.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23101.905968749998,"end":23112.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23112.92534375,"end":23115.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23115.96284375,"end":23127.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23117.02596875,"end":23120.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23125.429718749998,"end":23131.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23127.420968750004,"end":23127.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23127.47159375,"end":23127.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23131.80846875,"end":23133.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23133.49596875,"end":23140.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23138.507843749998,"end":23138.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23139.942218750002,"end":23143.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23144.86971875,"end":23147.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23147.80596875,"end":23148.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23148.43034375,"end":23152.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23153.037218750003,"end":23154.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23154.724718750003,"end":23156.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23156.90159375,"end":23161.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23161.42409375,"end":23163.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23164.022843749997,"end":23167.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23167.65096875,"end":23173.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23174.350343750004,"end":23179.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23179.750343749998,"end":23184.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23185.184093750002,"end":23187.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23188.390343749998,"end":23190.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23190.97221875,"end":23192.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23194.060343750003,"end":23199.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23199.527843750002,"end":23204.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23204.75909375,"end":23209.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23209.652843750002,"end":23217.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23217.41534375,"end":23219.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23220.16596875,"end":23220.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23220.959093750003,"end":23224.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23224.60409375,"end":23224.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23225.56596875,"end":23231.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23231.67471875,"end":23232.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23232.21471875,"end":23232.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23233.733468750004,"end":23239.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23239.842218750004,"end":23240.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23240.685968750004,"end":23252.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23252.85284375,"end":23267.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23267.871593750002,"end":23279.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23280.359093749998,"end":23286.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23286.349718750003,"end":23299.866593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23296.879718750002,"end":23297.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23298.162218750003,"end":23306.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23306.98784375,"end":23311.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23311.898468749998,"end":23323.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23323.96409375,"end":23327.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23327.997218750003,"end":23344.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23344.72034375,"end":23350.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23351.639093750004,"end":23353.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23354.507843749998,"end":23362.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23363.130968750003,"end":23374.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23372.05784375,"end":23382.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23382.132218750005,"end":23390.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23386.131593750004,"end":23388.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23390.16471875,"end":23391.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23391.717218750004,"end":23395.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23396.07096875,"end":23409.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23409.99284375,"end":23415.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23416.25346875,"end":23418.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23419.94909375,"end":23421.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23421.63659375,"end":23425.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23427.71159375,"end":23432.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23427.880343750003,"end":23428.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23429.179718749998,"end":23429.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23429.21346875,"end":23429.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23432.824718750002,"end":23439.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23439.912218750003,"end":23440.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23440.58721875,"end":23441.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23442.038468750005,"end":23445.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23445.734093749998,"end":23447.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23447.843468749998,"end":23458.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23458.86284375,"end":23467.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23468.059718750003,"end":23480.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23480.90159375,"end":23486.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23486.67284375,"end":23487.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23488.47846875,"end":23491.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23491.397843750005,"end":23493.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23493.87846875,"end":23498.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23498.552843750003,"end":23502.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23501.03346875,"end":23503.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23503.834718750004,"end":23522.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23522.98784375,"end":23525.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23526.497843750003,"end":23533.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23534.02409375,"end":23536.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23547.94596875,"end":23550.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23555.05034375,"end":23559.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23573.68034375,"end":23574.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23574.74346875,"end":23575.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23576.04284375,"end":23577.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23586.58971875,"end":23587.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23587.18034375,"end":23595.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23587.450343750003,"end":23587.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23587.484093749998,"end":23587.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23596.46159375,"end":23602.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23603.02596875,"end":23608.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23608.560968750004,"end":23613.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23614.53471875,"end":23617.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23618.09534375,"end":23618.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23619.090968750003,"end":23622.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23622.97221875,"end":23623.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23624.01846875,"end":23628.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23628.810968750004,"end":23631.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23631.848468750002,"end":23636.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23636.927843750003,"end":23639.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23640.100343750004,"end":23642.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23643.036593750003,"end":23649.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23649.73596875,"end":23670.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23670.475343750004,"end":23675.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23675.841593750003,"end":23678.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23678.912843750004,"end":23686.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23686.64159375,"end":23687.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23687.92409375,"end":23693.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23693.83034375,"end":23697.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23697.779093750003,"end":23700.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23701.66034375,"end":23702.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23703.53346875,"end":23714.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23715.295343750004,"end":23728.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23729.031593749998,"end":23734.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23735.39346875,"end":23736.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23735.61284375,"end":23735.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23736.76034375,"end":23742.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23742.514718750004,"end":23744.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23745.062843749998,"end":23745.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23746.109093749998,"end":23747.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23746.12596875,"end":23746.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23747.42534375,"end":23752.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23752.184093750002,"end":23756.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23756.60534375,"end":23760.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23760.554093750005,"end":23763.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23762.764718750004,"end":23782.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23783.57159375,"end":23783.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23783.58846875,"end":23784.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23785.37721875,"end":23787.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23787.554093750005,"end":23788.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23788.920968750004,"end":23796.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23792.97096875,"end":23793.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23793.021593750003,"end":23794.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23796.599093750003,"end":23797.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23797.71284375,"end":23801.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23801.64471875,"end":23803.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23803.85534375,"end":23804.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23804.749718749998,"end":23806.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23806.80846875,"end":23807.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23807.19659375,"end":23809.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23809.01909375,"end":23809.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23809.30596875,"end":23810.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23811.162218750003,"end":23812.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23812.88346875,"end":23812.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23812.91721875,"end":23812.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":23812.934093750002,"end":23813.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23813.187218749998,"end":23815.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23814.40221875,"end":23815.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23815.41471875,"end":23815.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23815.920968750004,"end":23815.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":23816.241593750005,"end":23822.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23822.94096875,"end":23835.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23836.42409375,"end":23837.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23837.976593749998,"end":23846.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":23839.59659375,"end":23839.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23847.91596875,"end":23851.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23851.577843749998,"end":23857.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23857.990343750003,"end":23862.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23862.951593750004,"end":23868.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23868.672218749998,"end":23871.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23872.09784375,"end":23873.194718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23875.15221875,"end":23875.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23876.62034375,"end":23880.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":23880.53534375,"end":23880.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23880.82221875,"end":23897.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23897.039093749998,"end":23897.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23897.629718750002,"end":23905.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23906.11784375,"end":23918.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23918.976593749998,"end":23919.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23920.765343749998,"end":23932.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23932.476593749998,"end":23933.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23933.421593749998,"end":23939.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23940.340343750002,"end":23960.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23960.944718750005,"end":23964.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23964.825968750003,"end":23972.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23973.34784375,"end":23981.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23982.29159375,"end":23984.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23985.22784375,"end":23999.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23997.529718750004,"end":23997.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24000.01034375,"end":24011.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24010.25346875,"end":24015.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24015.29909375,"end":24037.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24037.96221875,"end":24042.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24038.552843750003,"end":24039.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24043.075343750003,"end":24043.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24044.054093750005,"end":24045.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24045.37034375,"end":24049.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":24049.217843750004,"end":24049.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":24049.538468750005,"end":24049.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24049.55534375,"end":24059.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24054.803468750004,"end":24055.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24057.57096875,"end":24057.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24059.039093749998,"end":24068.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24068.23596875,"end":24097.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24095.067218750002,"end":24095.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24097.750343749998,"end":24100.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24100.889093750004,"end":24102.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24103.38659375,"end":24108.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24109.19159375,"end":24111.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24111.99284375,"end":24126.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24127.11284375,"end":24135.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24135.53346875,"end":24136.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24136.71471875,"end":24139.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24139.920968750004,"end":24140.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24140.663468750005,"end":24141.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24142.232843750004,"end":24146.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24147.379718750002,"end":24150.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24151.05846875,"end":24153.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24154.062218749998,"end":24155.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24155.80034375,"end":24158.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24159.614093750002,"end":24161.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24161.740343750003,"end":24162.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24162.668468750002,"end":24163.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24163.849718750003,"end":24174.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24175.08846875,"end":24176.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24177.467843750004,"end":24183.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24183.779093750003,"end":24185.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24185.71971875,"end":24187.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24187.491593750005,"end":24188.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24188.77409375,"end":24190.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24190.765343749998,"end":24191.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24192.098468750002,"end":24196.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24196.70534375,"end":24198.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24199.405343750004,"end":24201.514718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24201.835343750005,"end":24207.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24207.404093750003,"end":24207.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24208.247843750003,"end":24209.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24209.412218750003,"end":24211.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24212.11221875,"end":24213.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24213.78284375,"end":24217.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24217.61346875,"end":24222.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24222.169718750003,"end":24229.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24229.982843750004,"end":24236.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24236.530343750004,"end":24248.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24248.29221875,"end":24275.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24259.26096875,"end":24259.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":24275.039093749998,"end":24281.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24279.91596875,"end":24280.304093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24280.911593750003,"end":24296.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24296.70659375,"end":24299.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24300.419093750003,"end":24301.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24303.00096875,"end":24306.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24307.11846875,"end":24309.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24310.476593749998,"end":24311.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24312.51846875,"end":24314.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24314.459093750003,"end":24315.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24316.29846875,"end":24318.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24318.458468750003,"end":24325.124093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24325.849718750003,"end":24327.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24328.73534375,"end":24329.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24331.671593749998,"end":24334.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24335.451593750004,"end":24336.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24337.18971875,"end":24340.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24340.598468750002,"end":24341.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24342.57284375,"end":24345.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":24345.32346875,"end":24345.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24345.72846875,"end":24348.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24348.327218750004,"end":24350.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24352.07346875,"end":24353.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24352.731593750003,"end":24354.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24354.40221875,"end":24355.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24356.545343750004,"end":24357.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24357.591593750003,"end":24377.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24377.875343749998,"end":24378.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24378.73596875,"end":24384.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24385.030343750004,"end":24386.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24387.07221875,"end":24389.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24390.00846875,"end":24390.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24390.059093750002,"end":24391.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24392.35409375,"end":24393.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24393.40034375,"end":24396.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24397.07909375,"end":24403.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24403.54221875,"end":24412.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24412.82346875,"end":24436.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24438.35534375,"end":24440.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24441.527843750002,"end":24442.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24442.96221875,"end":24444.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24445.358468750004,"end":24446.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24447.19784375,"end":24448.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24447.50159375,"end":24447.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24447.552218750003,"end":24448.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24448.075343750003,"end":24448.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24448.26096875,"end":24451.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24452.007218750005,"end":24465.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24465.574718750002,"end":24469.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24470.434718750003,"end":24479.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24480.255968750003,"end":24480.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24481.335968749998,"end":24491.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24492.794093750003,"end":24496.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24498.480968750002,"end":24502.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24521.616593750005,"end":24521.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24523.15221875,"end":24524.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24524.789093749998,"end":24526.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24527.25284375,"end":24528.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24538.82909375,"end":24538.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":24538.84596875,"end":24539.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24539.57159375,"end":24540.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24540.803468750004,"end":24543.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24543.36846875,"end":24551.147843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24551.670968750004,"end":24554.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24555.29909375,"end":24562.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24562.656593749998,"end":24565.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24565.86284375,"end":24568.866593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24569.30534375,"end":24573.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24573.726593749998,"end":24574.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24575.00909375,"end":24579.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24580.223468750002,"end":24589.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24589.69034375,"end":24601.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24602.56596875,"end":24604.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24605.114093750002,"end":24611.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24611.340968750003,"end":24611.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24612.03284375,"end":24614.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24614.34471875,"end":24616.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24616.79159375,"end":24617.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24617.82096875,"end":24618.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24618.81659375,"end":24620.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24621.179093750005,"end":24621.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24623.10284375,"end":24624.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24624.537218750003,"end":24626.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24626.49471875,"end":24627.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24628.28346875,"end":24629.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24629.397218750004,"end":24631.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24632.19846875,"end":24633.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":24632.249093750004,"end":24632.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24632.265968749998,"end":24632.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":24632.28284375,"end":24632.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24632.974718750003,"end":24633.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24633.194093750004,"end":24638.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24637.34534375,"end":24638.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24638.20596875,"end":24638.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24638.965343750002,"end":24639.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24639.48846875,"end":24639.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24639.505343750003,"end":24639.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24639.522218750004,"end":24639.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24639.606593750003,"end":24639.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24639.640343749998,"end":24642.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24641.15909375,"end":24655.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24653.629718750002,"end":24663.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24658.35471875,"end":24658.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24661.08846875,"end":24661.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24662.03346875,"end":24673.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24673.778468750003,"end":24675.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24675.44909375,"end":24677.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24677.676593750002,"end":24680.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24681.405968749998,"end":24682.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24683.21159375,"end":24685.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24685.405343750004,"end":24686.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24686.552843750003,"end":24687.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24688.459718750004,"end":24689.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24690.029093750003,"end":24691.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24691.632218750005,"end":24693.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24693.825968750003,"end":24696.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24697.082843750002,"end":24697.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24698.39909375,"end":24700.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24700.72784375,"end":24703.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24703.69784375,"end":24705.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24705.739718750003,"end":24706.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24706.684718750003,"end":24712.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24712.506593750004,"end":24716.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24716.624093750004,"end":24720.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24720.87659375,"end":24728.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24724.87596875,"end":24728.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24728.976593749998,"end":24728.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24729.077843749998,"end":24729.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24729.41534375,"end":24731.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24731.153468750003,"end":24731.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24731.676593750002,"end":24735.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24733.920968750004,"end":24734.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24735.77721875,"end":24739.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24735.86159375,"end":24737.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24739.000343749998,"end":24739.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24739.590968750003,"end":24747.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24747.79221875,"end":24756.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24757.242218749998,"end":24757.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24757.81596875,"end":24760.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24760.73534375,"end":24761.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24762.00096875,"end":24762.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24763.68846875,"end":24763.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24763.975343750004,"end":24764.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24764.093468749998,"end":24764.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24764.22846875,"end":24765.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24766.01721875,"end":24777.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24772.632218750005,"end":24776.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24777.96471875,"end":24779.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24780.225968750005,"end":24781.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24782.25096875,"end":24790.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24791.00909375,"end":24809.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24807.05721875,"end":24811.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24812.74409375,"end":24813.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24813.739718750003,"end":24816.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24816.270968750003,"end":24826.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24817.60409375,"end":24819.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24823.662218750003,"end":24834.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24827.10471875,"end":24827.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24835.12034375,"end":24837.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24837.85409375,"end":24845.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24845.85284375,"end":24868.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24866.00159375,"end":24874.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24874.33784375,"end":24878.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24878.387843750003,"end":24889.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24880.15971875,"end":24880.210343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24888.17534375,"end":24902.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24898.452218750004,"end":24898.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24899.498468750004,"end":24905.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24903.700343750003,"end":24904.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24905.607218750003,"end":24909.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24909.724718750003,"end":24917.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24917.57159375,"end":24919.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24919.91721875,"end":24920.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24921.351593749998,"end":24923.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24924.03471875,"end":24926.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24926.835968749998,"end":24934.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24935.93159375,"end":24939.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24939.559718750003,"end":24940.116593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24940.234718749998,"end":24942.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24942.37784375,"end":24947.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24944.554718749998,"end":24944.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24947.94659375,"end":24950.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24950.950343750003,"end":24952.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24952.40159375,"end":24952.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24952.755968750003,"end":24954.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24955.57409375,"end":24956.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24958.054718749998,"end":24960.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24959.75909375,"end":24960.889718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24960.80534375,"end":24961.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24960.906593749998,"end":24967.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24967.437218749998,"end":24975.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":24973.36034375,"end":24974.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24976.094093749998,"end":24978.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":24978.42284375,"end":24988.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":24987.82221875,"end":25005.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":25005.152843750002,"end":25009.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":25010.08034375,"end":25021.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25020.32346875,"end":25028.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25027.78221875,"end":25031.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25031.27534375,"end":25035.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25035.544718750003,"end":25037.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25038.22784375,"end":25041.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25041.61971875,"end":25044.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25044.33659375,"end":25049.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25045.973468750002,"end":25046.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25049.71971875,"end":25054.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25055.03534375,"end":25057.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25057.98846875,"end":25060.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25060.82346875,"end":25063.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25063.55721875,"end":25065.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25066.155968749998,"end":25066.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25066.797218749998,"end":25071.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25071.48846875,"end":25073.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25073.969093749998,"end":25077.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25077.850343750004,"end":25079.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25080.43221875,"end":25083.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25084.34721875,"end":25091.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25092.109718749998,"end":25095.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25096.05846875,"end":25098.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25098.58971875,"end":25100.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25100.90159375,"end":25103.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25103.85471875,"end":25112.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25113.10221875,"end":25117.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25115.85284375,"end":25119.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25120.27409375,"end":25150.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25143.460343750005,"end":25144.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":25144.084718750004,"end":25145.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25150.86846875,"end":25153.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25153.973468750002,"end":25162.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25161.803468750004,"end":25180.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25180.804718749998,"end":25183.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25183.48784375,"end":25184.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25183.842218750004,"end":25187.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25187.67284375,"end":25192.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25192.701593750004,"end":25199.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25199.62034375,"end":25209.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25209.677843750003,"end":25214.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25214.47034375,"end":25221.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25221.625343749998,"end":25221.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25222.30034375,"end":25223.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25224.17346875,"end":25226.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25226.60346875,"end":25239.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25239.39471875,"end":25239.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25239.647843750005,"end":25239.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25239.850343750004,"end":25239.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25239.968468749998,"end":25241.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25242.482843750004,"end":25255.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25254.497843750003,"end":25268.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25256.421593749998,"end":25257.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25269.364718750003,"end":25270.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25270.59659375,"end":25270.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25270.61346875,"end":25275.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25275.03471875,"end":25275.929093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25276.570343749998,"end":25276.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25277.262218750002,"end":25279.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25279.89471875,"end":25282.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25283.15159375,"end":25288.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25288.365968750004,"end":25291.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25292.247218750003,"end":25295.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25296.077843749998,"end":25296.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25297.15784375,"end":25298.288468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25298.355968750002,"end":25298.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25299.840968750003,"end":25301.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25302.372218750003,"end":25303.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25303.68846875,"end":25306.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25307.130968750003,"end":25308.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25307.19846875,"end":25309.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25310.13471875,"end":25313.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25310.809718750003,"end":25311.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25311.569093750004,"end":25316.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25317.154718750004,"end":25319.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25320.192218750002,"end":25339.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25332.61221875,"end":25333.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25335.514718750004,"end":25337.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25338.012218750002,"end":25340.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25340.999093750004,"end":25347.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25341.859718749998,"end":25342.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25345.38659375,"end":25349.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25350.162218750003,"end":25354.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25350.21284375,"end":25350.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25354.83659375,"end":25357.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25357.68846875,"end":25357.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25357.72221875,"end":25358.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25358.97096875,"end":25360.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25360.35471875,"end":25363.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25363.39221875,"end":25364.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25365.434093750002,"end":25367.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25368.015968749998,"end":25374.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25372.58909375,"end":25378.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25379.72721875,"end":25379.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25380.233468750004,"end":25381.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25381.701593750004,"end":25385.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25385.98784375,"end":25386.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25386.30846875,"end":25388.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25388.06346875,"end":25390.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25388.18159375,"end":25388.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25389.02534375,"end":25389.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25391.53971875,"end":25391.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25392.569093750004,"end":25393.632218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25394.83034375,"end":25395.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25396.09596875,"end":25399.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25397.78346875,"end":25397.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25397.80034375,"end":25398.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25400.804093750005,"end":25402.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25403.115968750004,"end":25405.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25403.77409375,"end":25404.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25406.55846875,"end":25410.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25406.609093749998,"end":25406.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25410.54096875,"end":25412.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25412.498468750004,"end":25413.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25413.69659375,"end":25416.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25417.544093750003,"end":25418.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25418.97846875,"end":25419.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25419.349718750003,"end":25419.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25420.007843749998,"end":25420.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25420.02471875,"end":25421.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25421.864093750002,"end":25423.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25423.63596875,"end":25425.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25425.390968749998,"end":25428.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25428.68159375,"end":25429.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25430.26784375,"end":25434.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25434.942218750002,"end":25435.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25436.444093750004,"end":25438.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25438.992218749998,"end":25450.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25450.905968749998,"end":25456.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25451.108468750004,"end":25451.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25452.74534375,"end":25454.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25456.272218750004,"end":25456.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25456.997843750003,"end":25458.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":25458.63471875,"end":25459.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25465.70534375,"end":25468.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25472.05034375,"end":25479.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25480.943468750003,"end":25484.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25499.37096875,"end":25500.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25501.092218750004,"end":25501.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25501.851593749998,"end":25502.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":25502.83034375,"end":25504.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25514.23784375,"end":25514.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25515.16596875,"end":25515.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25516.41471875,"end":25518.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25518.77721875,"end":25520.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25520.734718749998,"end":25525.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25525.898468749998,"end":25525.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25525.94909375,"end":25526.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25526.33721875,"end":25527.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25527.73784375,"end":25528.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25529.340968750003,"end":25530.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25531.230968750002,"end":25532.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25532.530343750004,"end":25535.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25536.47909375,"end":25537.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25538.06534375,"end":25541.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25542.554093750005,"end":25543.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25543.380968750003,"end":25543.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25544.27534375,"end":25545.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25545.52409375,"end":25547.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25548.71346875,"end":25549.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25549.54034375,"end":25550.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25550.367218749998,"end":25551.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25552.27409375,"end":25553.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25554.41721875,"end":25557.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25557.640343749998,"end":25560.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25560.71159375,"end":25561.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25562.027843750002,"end":25564.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25566.22971875,"end":25569.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25570.34721875,"end":25572.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25573.28346875,"end":25574.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25575.342218750004,"end":25576.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25576.99596875,"end":25579.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25580.47221875,"end":25581.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25582.277843750002,"end":25583.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25583.93159375,"end":25585.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25585.973468750002,"end":25587.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25588.420343750004,"end":25589.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25589.73659375,"end":25590.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25590.732218750003,"end":25596.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25597.53284375,"end":25600.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25600.637843750003,"end":25604.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25605.295343750004,"end":25612.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25612.61909375,"end":25620.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25621.427843750003,"end":25626.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25626.65909375,"end":25631.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25632.54846875,"end":25638.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25639.062218749998,"end":25641.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25642.06596875,"end":25643.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25644.66471875,"end":25646.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25646.92596875,"end":25648.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25649.54159375,"end":25650.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25651.178468750004,"end":25659.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25659.58221875,"end":25664.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25664.897843750005,"end":25674.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25675.934093750002,"end":25679.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25680.051593750002,"end":25680.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25681.350968750005,"end":25683.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25683.89909375,"end":25685.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25686.092843750004,"end":25688.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25688.910968750002,"end":25693.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25693.669718750003,"end":25701.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25701.989093750002,"end":25720.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25720.973468750002,"end":25746.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25747.07909375,"end":25749.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25749.981593750003,"end":25750.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25751.702843749998,"end":25753.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25753.76159375,"end":25755.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25756.124093750004,"end":25756.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25757.23784375,"end":25758.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25758.80721875,"end":25760.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25761.692843750003,"end":25764.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25764.426593750002,"end":25765.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25765.96221875,"end":25765.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25766.046593749998,"end":25767.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25767.953468749998,"end":25770.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25771.02471875,"end":25786.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25786.87034375,"end":25805.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25805.43284375,"end":25811.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25812.638468750003,"end":25813.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25813.83659375,"end":25815.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25815.895343750002,"end":25816.772843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25817.177843750003,"end":25826.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25826.61096875,"end":25827.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25828.11284375,"end":25830.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25831.67346875,"end":25833.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25833.647843750005,"end":25834.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25834.457843750002,"end":25835.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25835.99346875,"end":25837.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25837.29284375,"end":25839.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25837.326593750004,"end":25837.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25839.773468749998,"end":25840.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25840.887218750002,"end":25844.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25844.44784375,"end":25846.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25847.41784375,"end":25848.514718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25848.97034375,"end":25850.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25851.872843750003,"end":25852.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25853.00346875,"end":25854.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25854.539093749998,"end":25857.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25858.319093750004,"end":25860.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25861.44096875,"end":25863.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25864.410968750002,"end":25870.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25870.992218749998,"end":25873.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25874.40096875,"end":25875.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25876.42596875,"end":25884.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25884.64409375,"end":25885.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25885.926593750002,"end":25889.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25890.246593750002,"end":25899.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25899.61221875,"end":25901.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25901.70471875,"end":25903.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25904.185343750003,"end":25905.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25906.58159375,"end":25908.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25908.319718750005,"end":25911.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25912.335968749998,"end":25915.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25916.318468750003,"end":25919.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25919.693468750003,"end":25922.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25922.646593750003,"end":25927.523468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25927.709093750003,"end":25929.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25930.223468750002,"end":25932.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25932.73784375,"end":25937.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25937.412218750003,"end":25942.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25942.390343749998,"end":25942.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25943.06534375,"end":25950.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25951.16534375,"end":25958.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25959.585968749998,"end":25961.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25961.982218750003,"end":25963.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25963.365968750004,"end":25974.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25974.098468750002,"end":25977.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25990.281593749998,"end":25990.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25990.686593750004,"end":25991.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25992.677843750003,"end":25992.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25992.897218750004,"end":25992.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25993.28534375,"end":25996.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25996.677218750003,"end":26000.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26000.64284375,"end":26002.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26002.904093750003,"end":26004.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26004.64221875,"end":26011.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26011.746593750002,"end":26014.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26014.530968749998,"end":26016.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26017.31534375,"end":26019.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26020.25159375,"end":26027.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26028.233468750004,"end":26030.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26031.152843750002,"end":26033.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26033.85284375,"end":26036.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26036.890343749998,"end":26038.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26039.387843750003,"end":26041.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26041.919093750003,"end":26043.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26044.905968749998,"end":26055.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26051.453468749998,"end":26051.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26055.233468750004,"end":26058.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26056.701593750004,"end":26057.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26059.26659375,"end":26062.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26062.35471875,"end":26065.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26067.231593750003,"end":26069.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26069.560343750003,"end":26070.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26070.184718750003,"end":26071.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26072.44596875,"end":26076.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26077.74471875,"end":26079.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26079.600968750005,"end":26082.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26083.195343749998,"end":26084.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26085.405968749998,"end":26087.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26087.85284375,"end":26100.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26101.06596875,"end":26109.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26109.773468749998,"end":26131.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26131.879718750002,"end":26133.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26134.19159375,"end":26140.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26140.975343750004,"end":26147.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26147.53971875,"end":26150.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26151.201593750004,"end":26152.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26152.92284375,"end":26157.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26157.81659375,"end":26164.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26165.08971875,"end":26178.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26179.51784375,"end":26181.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26182.099718750003,"end":26182.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26183.145968750003,"end":26184.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26184.968468749998,"end":26185.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26186.132843749998,"end":26187.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26187.76971875,"end":26211.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26190.638468750003,"end":26190.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26190.975968750005,"end":26191.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26205.606593750003,"end":26205.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26205.623468750004,"end":26205.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26211.24284375,"end":26215.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26215.36034375,"end":26224.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26224.928468750004,"end":26225.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26226.78471875,"end":26233.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26233.83846875,"end":26235.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26236.25159375,"end":26238.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26240.402843750002,"end":26243.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26243.710343750005,"end":26243.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26243.84534375,"end":26245.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26246.71409375,"end":26248.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26248.50284375,"end":26249.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26250.05534375,"end":26256.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26256.687218749998,"end":26260.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26261.36159375,"end":26263.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26263.89284375,"end":26303.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26304.61221875,"end":26312.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26312.81346875,"end":26315.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26315.37846875,"end":26337.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26338.14284375,"end":26338.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26339.08784375,"end":26341.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26341.062218749998,"end":26344.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26344.420343750004,"end":26346.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26345.21346875,"end":26348.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26349.33096875,"end":26354.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26350.61346875,"end":26351.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26353.97159375,"end":26371.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26371.45409375,"end":26388.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26388.88596875,"end":26408.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26409.00096875,"end":26411.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26411.059718750003,"end":26412.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26413.21971875,"end":26416.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26416.544093750003,"end":26418.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26418.434093750002,"end":26419.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":26460.435968750004,"end":26465.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":26465.76846875,"end":26470.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":26470.881593750004,"end":26472.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26477.294093750003,"end":26477.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":26480.19659375,"end":26480.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":26482.390343749998,"end":26482.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":26483.16659375,"end":26486.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":26490.96284375,"end":26491.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":26492.21159375,"end":26496.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26508.428468750004,"end":26509.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26509.710968749998,"end":26511.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":26512.090343750002,"end":26513.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26520.662843750004,"end":26521.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":26521.74284375,"end":26522.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26522.94096875,"end":26526.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26526.990968750004,"end":26529.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26530.146593750003,"end":26537.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26538.21284375,"end":26539.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26540.288468750005,"end":26540.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26540.98034375,"end":26542.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26543.37659375,"end":26548.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26548.54034375,"end":26552.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26553.164093749998,"end":26560.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26562.090968750003,"end":26563.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26563.980968750002,"end":26570.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26570.47784375,"end":26572.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26573.059718750003,"end":26578.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26579.13471875,"end":26583.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26584.365968750004,"end":26585.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26586.677843750003,"end":26586.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26587.605968750002,"end":26590.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26590.93034375,"end":26594.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26595.233468750004,"end":26596.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26596.98846875,"end":26599.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26599.840343750002,"end":26600.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26601.544718750003,"end":26603.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26603.468468749998,"end":26605.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26605.42596875,"end":26606.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26606.79284375,"end":26607.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26608.02471875,"end":26610.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26611.09596875,"end":26612.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26612.952218750004,"end":26613.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26614.04909375,"end":26615.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26615.787218750003,"end":26616.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26617.62659375,"end":26619.179093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26620.05659375,"end":26621.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26621.777843750002,"end":26625.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26625.55784375,"end":26628.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26628.47721875,"end":26629.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26629.270343750002,"end":26629.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26630.333468750003,"end":26633.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26631.953468749998,"end":26632.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26634.53534375,"end":26635.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26635.395968750003,"end":26639.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26637.58971875,"end":26642.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26642.95596875,"end":26648.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26648.98034375,"end":26654.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26652.45659375,"end":26656.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26656.590968750003,"end":26659.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26659.982843750004,"end":26664.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26664.387218750002,"end":26670.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26670.293468750002,"end":26674.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26674.39409375,"end":26677.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26675.187218749998,"end":26679.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26679.827843749998,"end":26681.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26681.97096875,"end":26683.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26681.98784375,"end":26684.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26683.77659375,"end":26684.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26685.835343750005,"end":26690.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26690.83034375,"end":26693.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26694.72846875,"end":26704.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26701.022843750005,"end":26706.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26704.937843749998,"end":26707.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26706.77721875,"end":26711.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26712.34596875,"end":26714.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26714.944718750005,"end":26719.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26716.311593750004,"end":26716.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26718.859718749998,"end":26720.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26720.648468749998,"end":26722.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26722.90971875,"end":26723.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26723.82096875,"end":26725.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26725.82909375,"end":26731.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26731.12784375,"end":26733.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26733.25409375,"end":26733.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26733.709718750004,"end":26736.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26733.94596875,"end":26734.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26737.101593749998,"end":26738.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26738.48534375,"end":26740.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26739.68346875,"end":26745.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26745.91034375,"end":26746.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26747.091593750003,"end":26755.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26755.81596875,"end":26761.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26762.515343749998,"end":26764.827218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26762.819093750004,"end":26764.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26764.928468750004,"end":26764.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26764.99596875,"end":26765.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26765.73846875,"end":26766.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26766.46409375,"end":26768.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":26768.505968750003,"end":26768.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26768.67471875,"end":26771.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26772.48846875,"end":26774.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26775.30659375,"end":26778.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26775.762218750002,"end":26776.538468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26779.50846875,"end":26782.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26782.61346875,"end":26783.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26783.03534375,"end":26784.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26784.435968750004,"end":26784.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26785.262843750003,"end":26787.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26787.94596875,"end":26790.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26791.270343750002,"end":26795.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26796.51846875,"end":26804.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26804.55096875,"end":26806.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26806.812218749998,"end":26808.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26808.921593749998,"end":26811.351593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26812.262843750003,"end":26813.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26815.06409375,"end":26816.616593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26816.903468750003,"end":26819.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26818.97909375,"end":26820.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26820.22784375,"end":26829.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":26820.97034375,"end":26821.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26830.521593750003,"end":26831.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26832.17534375,"end":26832.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26833.592843750004,"end":26837.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26838.58784375,"end":26838.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26838.621593750002,"end":26838.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26838.68909375,"end":26838.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26838.773468749998,"end":26838.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26838.79034375,"end":26839.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26838.80721875,"end":26840.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26840.91659375,"end":26842.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26843.835968749998,"end":26844.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26845.15221875,"end":26846.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26846.31659375,"end":26859.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26859.47909375,"end":26859.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26859.951593750004,"end":26865.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26865.68909375,"end":26866.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26867.07284375,"end":26869.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26870.177843750003,"end":26871.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26871.08909375,"end":26871.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26872.25346875,"end":26872.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26872.270343750002,"end":26875.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26876.742218749998,"end":26877.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26878.277843750002,"end":26882.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26882.530343750004,"end":26889.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26885.55096875,"end":26885.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26885.584718750004,"end":26885.804093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26885.804093750005,"end":26885.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26885.83784375,"end":26885.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26885.97284375,"end":26886.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26890.225343750004,"end":26896.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26896.58721875,"end":26900.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26901.24471875,"end":26909.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26910.660968750002,"end":26912.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26913.090968750003,"end":26913.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26913.293468750002,"end":26915.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26913.98534375,"end":26916.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26916.44909375,"end":26917.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26918.32221875,"end":26921.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26922.372218750003,"end":26922.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26923.80659375,"end":26924.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26924.12721875,"end":26924.295968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26924.903468750003,"end":26930.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26925.038468750005,"end":26925.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26927.890343749998,"end":26933.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26934.404093750003,"end":26942.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26943.12846875,"end":26944.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26943.22971875,"end":26944.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26945.32221875,"end":26945.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26945.33909375,"end":26946.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26946.655343750004,"end":26951.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26951.481593750003,"end":26954.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26955.480968750002,"end":26955.514718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26955.514718750004,"end":26955.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26955.531593749998,"end":26956.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26956.18971875,"end":26957.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26956.223468750002,"end":26956.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26957.97846875,"end":26964.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26964.44159375,"end":26968.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26968.778468750003,"end":26971.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26972.20409375,"end":26975.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26975.37659375,"end":26980.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26980.32096875,"end":26992.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26992.36971875,"end":26993.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26994.512843750003,"end":26996.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":26996.89221875,"end":26999.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27000.250343749998,"end":27000.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27000.756593750004,"end":27001.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27002.207843750002,"end":27003.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27004.047218749998,"end":27013.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27013.733468750004,"end":27014.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27015.37034375,"end":27016.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27016.973468750002,"end":27018.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27018.96471875,"end":27020.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27019.87596875,"end":27022.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27021.81659375,"end":27022.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27023.25096875,"end":27024.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":27023.79096875,"end":27023.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27025.36034375,"end":27027.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27027.857843750004,"end":27028.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27027.959093750003,"end":27039.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27040.277843750002,"end":27043.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27043.652843750002,"end":27043.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27043.686593750004,"end":27043.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27043.72034375,"end":27048.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27049.272218750004,"end":27050.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27050.80784375,"end":27051.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27052.242218749998,"end":27053.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27054.04784375,"end":27058.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27059.279093750003,"end":27061.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27061.523468749998,"end":27069.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27069.57284375,"end":27075.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27076.170968750004,"end":27079.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27079.25909375,"end":27079.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":27079.29284375,"end":27079.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27079.512218750002,"end":27079.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":27079.562843749998,"end":27079.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27079.57971875,"end":27079.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":27079.664093749998,"end":27079.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27079.950968750003,"end":27089.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":27079.984718749998,"end":27080.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27085.50284375,"end":27086.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27088.405343750004,"end":27089.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27089.72159375,"end":27098.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27098.969093749998,"end":27101.804093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27102.968468749998,"end":27107.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27107.45721875,"end":27121.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27121.530968749998,"end":27141.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27141.865343750003,"end":27143.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27143.51909375,"end":27157.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27158.234093749998,"end":27158.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27158.959718750004,"end":27159.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27160.46159375,"end":27161.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27161.96346875,"end":27162.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27163.02659375,"end":27164.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27164.629718750002,"end":27166.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27167.177843750003,"end":27173.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27173.843468749998,"end":27174.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27174.83909375,"end":27177.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27178.129718750002,"end":27188.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27188.895968750003,"end":27195.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27195.89909375,"end":27205.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27206.496593750002,"end":27211.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27211.255343750003,"end":27212.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27212.740343750003,"end":27213.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27214.225343750004,"end":27215.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27215.87909375,"end":27217.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27217.802843750003,"end":27224.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27222.08909375,"end":27231.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27225.54846875,"end":27229.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27231.437843749998,"end":27239.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27239.453468749998,"end":27242.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27242.76096875,"end":27247.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27248.194718750005,"end":27250.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27250.74284375,"end":27252.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27252.54846875,"end":27256.210343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27256.46346875,"end":27269.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27270.030968749998,"end":27274.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27275.02596875,"end":27276.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27276.79784375,"end":27284.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27284.71221875,"end":27285.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27285.79221875,"end":27289.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27289.58909375,"end":27300.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27300.65909375,"end":27313.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27306.26159375,"end":27306.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27308.23596875,"end":27309.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27310.007843749998,"end":27311.999093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27313.41659375,"end":27325.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27325.819718750005,"end":27327.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27326.81534375,"end":27329.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27330.51096875,"end":27335.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27335.99534375,"end":27343.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27343.79159375,"end":27346.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27343.960343750005,"end":27364.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27364.34534375,"end":27372.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27372.98534375,"end":27373.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27374.04846875,"end":27376.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27377.20409375,"end":27379.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27379.819718750005,"end":27381.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27381.692843750003,"end":27382.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27383.700968750003,"end":27386.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27386.654093750003,"end":27413.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27396.880343750003,"end":27397.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27398.685968750004,"end":27400.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27407.17409375,"end":27408.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27411.780968749998,"end":27414.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27415.358468750004,"end":27415.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27415.442843750003,"end":27415.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27415.662218750003,"end":27416.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":27415.83096875,"end":27419.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27420.437843749998,"end":27422.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27422.69909375,"end":27423.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":27424.06596875,"end":27425.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27429.499718749998,"end":27433.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27439.05096875,"end":27441.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27443.286593750003,"end":27443.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":28077.567218750002,"end":28079.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":28079.895968750003,"end":28082.140343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28096.21409375,"end":28096.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28096.973468750002,"end":28097.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28097.66534375,"end":28098.593468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":28098.72846875,"end":28100.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28108.262843750003,"end":28108.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28109.29221875,"end":28113.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28110.507218750005,"end":28110.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28113.93284375,"end":28114.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28114.590968750003,"end":28114.624718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28114.65846875,"end":28114.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28115.82284375,"end":28121.475968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28121.93159375,"end":28123.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28124.27721875,"end":28125.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28125.30659375,"end":28128.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28128.445343749998,"end":28132.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28132.88346875,"end":28137.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28137.912218750003,"end":28141.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28141.945343749998,"end":28146.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28146.41721875,"end":28150.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28150.51784375,"end":28154.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28154.888468750003,"end":28157.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28158.060968750004,"end":28159.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28160.052218750003,"end":28161.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28161.317843750003,"end":28161.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28162.077218750004,"end":28174.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28175.121593750002,"end":28184.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28185.162218750003,"end":28185.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28186.022843750005,"end":28188.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28188.82409375,"end":28193.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28193.295968750004,"end":28200.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28200.82221875,"end":28209.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28209.66471875,"end":28213.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28213.512218750002,"end":28223.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28223.046593750005,"end":28223.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28224.34596875,"end":28226.843468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28227.11346875,"end":28232.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28232.86784375,"end":28238.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28239.044093750003,"end":28247.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28248.47721875,"end":28252.577843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28252.780343750004,"end":28255.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28255.193468750003,"end":28260.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28260.86346875,"end":28262.280968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28262.75346875,"end":28263.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28263.310343750003,"end":28265.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28265.60534375,"end":28268.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28268.592218750004,"end":28269.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28269.99284375,"end":28271.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28271.59596875,"end":28275.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28275.426593750002,"end":28276.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28276.911593750003,"end":28277.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28277.82284375,"end":28280.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28280.65784375,"end":28281.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28281.906593749998,"end":28285.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28282.34534375,"end":28282.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28285.889093750004,"end":28288.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28289.01096875,"end":28294.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28295.01846875,"end":28298.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28298.849093750003,"end":28306.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28307.25284375,"end":28313.007218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28313.294093750003,"end":28314.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28314.677843750003,"end":28315.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28315.35284375,"end":28316.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28316.348468750002,"end":28323.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28323.874718750005,"end":28333.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28333.341593750003,"end":28355.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28355.63346875,"end":28356.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28357.65846875,"end":28360.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28360.746593750002,"end":28364.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28363.007843749998,"end":28363.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28363.092218750004,"end":28363.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28364.32409375,"end":28373.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28365.387218750002,"end":28365.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28365.97784375,"end":28366.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28367.86784375,"end":28368.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28371.81659375,"end":28372.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28373.48721875,"end":28374.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28375.022843750005,"end":28379.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28379.37659375,"end":28380.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28381.013468750003,"end":28384.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28384.405343750004,"end":28385.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28385.957843750002,"end":28387.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28388.33721875,"end":28392.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28392.65721875,"end":28394.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28394.648468749998,"end":28396.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28396.97721875,"end":28399.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28399.94721875,"end":28414.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28411.371593750002,"end":28411.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28414.881593750004,"end":28419.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28419.58971875,"end":28423.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28423.47096875,"end":28426.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28427.014718750004,"end":28448.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28448.327843750005,"end":28448.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28449.340343750002,"end":28468.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28468.544093750003,"end":28475.749718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28476.475343750004,"end":28477.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28478.19659375,"end":28480.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28481.36909375,"end":28498.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28499.07096875,"end":28505.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28505.584718750004,"end":28513.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28513.33034375,"end":28519.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28520.16471875,"end":28525.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28526.054093750005,"end":28533.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28534.289093749998,"end":28535.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28535.92596875,"end":28536.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28537.208468750003,"end":28545.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28545.61221875,"end":28551.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28551.974093750003,"end":28572.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28572.91596875,"end":28576.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28579.02471875,"end":28581.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28581.67409375,"end":28590.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28583.34471875,"end":28583.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28583.78346875,"end":28583.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28586.500343749998,"end":28586.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28591.107218750003,"end":28592.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28593.04784375,"end":28596.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28593.098468750002,"end":28593.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28593.40221875,"end":28593.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28596.473468750002,"end":28604.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28604.86034375,"end":28655.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28605.062843749998,"end":28605.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":28611.255968750003,"end":28611.272843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28611.272843750005,"end":28611.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":28611.576593750004,"end":28611.593468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28616.28471875,"end":28617.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28617.567218750002,"end":28617.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28637.091593750003,"end":28637.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28637.547218749998,"end":28637.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28654.45596875,"end":28682.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28682.92409375,"end":28731.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28731.591593750003,"end":28734.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28734.69659375,"end":28741.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28740.552218750003,"end":28740.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28741.851593749998,"end":28792.139093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28751.47034375,"end":28751.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28754.00159375,"end":28754.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28775.33159375,"end":28775.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28775.500343749998,"end":28776.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28783.600343750004,"end":28784.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28784.039093749998,"end":28784.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28784.07284375,"end":28784.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28784.123468750004,"end":28784.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28784.207843750002,"end":28784.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28784.29221875,"end":28784.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28784.41034375,"end":28784.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28784.444093750004,"end":28784.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28784.49471875,"end":28784.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28784.89971875,"end":28784.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28790.974718750003,"end":28807.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28808.32221875,"end":28864.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28864.63409375,"end":28888.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28889.00159375,"end":28889.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28890.233468750004,"end":28891.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28891.76909375,"end":28892.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28892.81534375,"end":28895.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28893.76034375,"end":28894.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28895.34659375,"end":28899.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28897.388468750003,"end":28897.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":28900.18971875,"end":28903.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28902.61971875,"end":28937.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28935.660968750002,"end":28936.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28937.989718750003,"end":28949.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28949.802218750003,"end":28952.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28953.36284375,"end":28980.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28979.16471875,"end":28983.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28981.49346875,"end":28983.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28983.434093750002,"end":28986.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28984.76721875,"end":28985.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28985.72909375,"end":28988.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":28989.374093750004,"end":28995.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":28994.80784375,"end":29013.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29042.58096875,"end":29043.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29044.48784375,"end":29047.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29052.655343750004,"end":29056.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29070.795968750004,"end":29071.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29071.960343750005,"end":29074.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29075.67284375,"end":29078.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29081.59596875,"end":29088.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29088.78471875,"end":29092.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29092.78409375,"end":29093.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29094.420968750004,"end":29097.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29097.64409375,"end":29100.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29101.23846875,"end":29102.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29103.364718750003,"end":29108.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29108.309093750002,"end":29110.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29110.840343750002,"end":29119.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29120.40846875,"end":29121.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29123.969093749998,"end":29125.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29125.58909375,"end":29125.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29125.605968750002,"end":29125.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29127.79971875,"end":29129.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29129.80784375,"end":29130.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29131.326593750004,"end":29134.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29135.444093750004,"end":29141.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29141.755343750003,"end":29145.265343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29145.72096875,"end":29146.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29146.76721875,"end":29148.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29148.707843750002,"end":29153.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29154.209093750003,"end":29156.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29157.73596875,"end":29160.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29161.043468750002,"end":29162.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29163.068468750003,"end":29171.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":29172.349718750003,"end":29173.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29172.990968750004,"end":29173.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29174.121593750002,"end":29175.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29175.69096875,"end":29179.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29179.55534375,"end":29192.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29192.903468750003,"end":29194.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29194.77659375,"end":29201.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29202.707843750002,"end":29203.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29203.349093750003,"end":29203.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29203.83846875,"end":29204.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29205.00284375,"end":29206.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29206.926593750002,"end":29211.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":29212.57971875,"end":29213.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29213.62596875,"end":29216.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":29215.65096875,"end":29215.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29217.405968750005,"end":29231.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29232.374093750004,"end":29241.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29241.80721875,"end":29243.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29244.186593750004,"end":29247.359093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29247.949718750002,"end":29251.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29252.45534375,"end":29263.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29263.96409375,"end":29266.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29267.64284375,"end":29272.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29273.02596875,"end":29273.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29273.920343750004,"end":29275.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29276.58659375,"end":29277.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29277.66659375,"end":29292.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29293.03971875,"end":29295.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29295.80721875,"end":29297.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29298.11909375,"end":29302.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29303.31659375,"end":29305.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29306.43846875,"end":29311.484093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29311.872218750003,"end":29314.015343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29314.403468750003,"end":29317.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29317.20471875,"end":29318.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29318.60534375,"end":29324.663468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29325.00096875,"end":29332.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29333.35409375,"end":29340.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29340.880343750003,"end":29369.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29369.83784375,"end":29377.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29378.039093749998,"end":29381.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29382.29159375,"end":29396.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29397.05721875,"end":29405.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29405.69721875,"end":29413.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29414.100968750005,"end":29419.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29417.864093750002,"end":29418.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29418.06659375,"end":29418.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29418.083468750003,"end":29418.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29419.53471875,"end":29427.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29427.668468750002,"end":29430.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29431.14471875,"end":29438.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29439.75096875,"end":29455.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29455.562843749998,"end":29476.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29476.67346875,"end":29480.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29480.622218750003,"end":29481.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29481.76971875,"end":29482.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29482.07346875,"end":29491.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29483.929718749998,"end":29486.241593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29486.984093750005,"end":29487.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29491.287218750003,"end":29504.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29491.692218750002,"end":29492.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29503.58909375,"end":29505.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29505.14159375,"end":29506.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29506.42409375,"end":29510.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29508.719093749998,"end":29516.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29514.929093750005,"end":29520.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29519.687843749998,"end":29529.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29530.403468750003,"end":29532.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29532.56346875,"end":29539.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29539.54971875,"end":29549.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29549.69159375,"end":29573.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29574.56534375,"end":29582.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29582.732843750004,"end":29583.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29584.38659375,"end":29598.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29598.966593750003,"end":29599.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29600.451593750004,"end":29602.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29602.84784375,"end":29606.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29606.91471875,"end":29609.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29609.78346875,"end":29616.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29616.887843750003,"end":29628.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29629.27409375,"end":29630.944718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29631.38346875,"end":29632.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29633.18909375,"end":29638.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29638.757843749998,"end":29647.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29647.262843750003,"end":29647.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29647.97159375,"end":29652.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29652.949718750002,"end":29657.843468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29658.21471875,"end":29659.952843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29660.50971875,"end":29661.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29661.67409375,"end":29664.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29664.62721875,"end":29671.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29671.78221875,"end":29676.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29672.11971875,"end":29672.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29677.215968750003,"end":29679.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29680.270343750002,"end":29685.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29685.029093750003,"end":29685.687218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29685.94034375,"end":29691.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29690.125343749998,"end":29698.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29698.61346875,"end":29705.937218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29700.57096875,"end":29700.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29700.58784375,"end":29701.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":29701.76909375,"end":29701.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29706.224093750003,"end":29711.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29712.248468750004,"end":29716.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29717.44596875,"end":29721.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29722.795343750004,"end":29747.601593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29723.318468750003,"end":29724.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29726.03534375,"end":29726.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29745.62721875,"end":29748.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29748.529718750004,"end":29771.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29772.22221875,"end":29772.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29773.082843750002,"end":29774.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29773.099718750003,"end":29773.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29774.53409375,"end":29774.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29775.107843750004,"end":29776.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29777.757218750005,"end":29784.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29784.929093750005,"end":29793.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29793.889718750004,"end":29800.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29800.605968750002,"end":29807.609093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29808.250343749998,"end":29816.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29816.94096875,"end":29827.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29827.80846875,"end":29830.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29831.335343750005,"end":29847.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29847.63659375,"end":29849.374718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29849.91471875,"end":29854.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29855.483468750004,"end":29861.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29862.317843750003,"end":29864.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29865.13596875,"end":29877.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29878.163468750005,"end":29888.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29881.15034375,"end":29881.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":29881.335968749998,"end":29881.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29881.55534375,"end":29883.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":29883.023468749998,"end":29883.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":29883.445343749998,"end":29884.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29886.22971875,"end":29886.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29889.115343750003,"end":29889.132218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29889.132218750005,"end":29890.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29889.28409375,"end":29892.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29893.09784375,"end":29896.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29896.57409375,"end":29898.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29898.480968750002,"end":29902.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29901.771593750003,"end":29903.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29902.78409375,"end":29906.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29904.35346875,"end":29904.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29905.551593750002,"end":29909.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29906.732843750004,"end":29908.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":29910.17534375,"end":29919.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29910.209093750003,"end":29910.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29916.40221875,"end":29918.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29918.61284375,"end":29918.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29919.507218750005,"end":29920.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29920.50284375,"end":29943.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29943.419093750003,"end":29944.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29944.95471875,"end":29951.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29951.637218750002,"end":29951.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29951.73846875,"end":29958.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29958.79221875,"end":29974.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29975.32971875,"end":29981.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":29981.910968750002,"end":30011.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30002.63346875,"end":30008.100968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30009.18096875,"end":30009.265343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30009.265343750005,"end":30011.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30011.83034375,"end":30012.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30013.652843750002,"end":30018.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":30018.411593750003,"end":30020.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30019.72784375,"end":30024.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":30020.740343750003,"end":30021.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":30024.16596875,"end":30024.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":30024.50346875,"end":30024.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30025.02659375,"end":30026.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30026.967218750004,"end":30032.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30032.637218750002,"end":30034.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30034.965968750003,"end":30036.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30037.429718749998,"end":30040.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":30040.669718750003,"end":30050.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":30050.96346875,"end":30052.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30062.404718750004,"end":30065.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30065.94846875,"end":30068.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30068.98596875,"end":30072.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30072.81659375,"end":30074.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30086.08034375,"end":30086.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30087.43034375,"end":30088.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30088.94909375,"end":30090.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30090.332843750002,"end":30093.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30094.163468750005,"end":30097.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":30103.512218750002,"end":30104.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30104.575343750003,"end":30105.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30114.312218750005,"end":30120.218468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30122.90159375,"end":30124.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30123.559718750003,"end":30124.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30125.584718750004,"end":30126.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30126.715343750002,"end":30130.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30131.372843750003,"end":30135.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30135.929093750005,"end":30137.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30137.86971875,"end":30138.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30138.983468750004,"end":30147.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30147.33659375,"end":30152.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30153.310343750003,"end":30158.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30158.389718750004,"end":30161.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30163.30034375,"end":30166.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30167.468468750005,"end":30168.835343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30169.122218750003,"end":30172.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30172.935968750004,"end":30173.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30174.606593750003,"end":30176.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30176.969093749998,"end":30177.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30178.26846875,"end":30180.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30180.445343749998,"end":30182.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30183.263468750003,"end":30184.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30185.372843750003,"end":30191.295968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":30186.334718750004,"end":30187.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30191.36346875,"end":30194.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30194.873468750004,"end":30196.982843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30197.33721875,"end":30201.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30201.26909375,"end":30212.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30212.44034375,"end":30213.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30213.60471875,"end":30224.522843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30224.742218749998,"end":30229.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30230.34471875,"end":30231.593468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30231.795968750004,"end":30235.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30235.23846875,"end":30242.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30242.967218750004,"end":30244.047218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30244.536593750003,"end":30273.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30273.47721875,"end":30276.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30276.88596875,"end":30277.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30278.25284375,"end":30280.210343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30280.919093750003,"end":30283.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30283.652843750002,"end":30287.382218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30287.449718750002,"end":30289.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30289.08659375,"end":30291.921593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":30289.255343750003,"end":30289.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30292.107218750003,"end":30296.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30296.747843750003,"end":30297.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30297.827843750005,"end":30308.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30308.999093750004,"end":30310.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30311.69909375,"end":30316.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30313.80846875,"end":30339.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30317.67284375,"end":30318.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30340.26846875,"end":30341.382218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30341.702843750005,"end":30343.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30343.76159375,"end":30356.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30356.535968750002,"end":30360.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30361.46346875,"end":30365.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30365.125343749998,"end":30368.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30366.390968749998,"end":30367.437218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30367.70721875,"end":30372.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30372.12846875,"end":30381.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30376.887218750002,"end":30376.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":30380.802218750003,"end":30383.046593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30381.29159375,"end":30381.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30383.873468750004,"end":30396.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30397.22159375,"end":30409.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30410.029718750004,"end":30415.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30415.598468750002,"end":30432.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30432.35534375,"end":30432.929093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30433.755968750003,"end":30439.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":30440.404718750004,"end":30440.421593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30440.421593750005,"end":30441.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":30441.012218750002,"end":30441.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30441.231593750003,"end":30442.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30444.387218750002,"end":30445.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30445.973468750002,"end":30446.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30446.56409375,"end":30452.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30452.08221875,"end":30459.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30459.490343750003,"end":30469.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30469.02471875,"end":30472.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30471.48846875,"end":30483.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30472.889093750004,"end":30473.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30483.50346875,"end":30488.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30488.937218750005,"end":30490.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30491.18159375,"end":30494.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30491.19846875,"end":30493.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30494.15159375,"end":30498.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30498.48846875,"end":30500.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30500.37846875,"end":30502.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30502.605968750002,"end":30515.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30515.481593750003,"end":30518.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30519.092843750004,"end":30534.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30535.208468750003,"end":30543.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30543.47721875,"end":30544.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30544.928468750004,"end":30546.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30546.599093750003,"end":30557.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30557.09534375,"end":30563.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30564.132218750005,"end":30566.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30566.359718749998,"end":30573.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30573.12659375,"end":30575.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30575.69159375,"end":30578.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30579.13409375,"end":30583.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30583.04909375,"end":30584.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30584.888468750003,"end":30590.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30592.22909375,"end":30593.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30594.23721875,"end":30596.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30596.86971875,"end":30598.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30599.41784375,"end":30609.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30601.94909375,"end":30602.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30609.52596875,"end":30610.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30610.87596875,"end":30614.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30614.841593750003,"end":30616.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30616.849718750003,"end":30619.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30619.98846875,"end":30623.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30623.414093749998,"end":30627.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30627.34596875,"end":30639.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30639.732218750003,"end":30644.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30644.55846875,"end":30650.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30650.835968749998,"end":30679.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30651.443468750003,"end":30651.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":30651.966593750003,"end":30652.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30652.01721875,"end":30652.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30680.215343750002,"end":30684.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30687.859718749998,"end":30688.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30689.26034375,"end":30689.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30691.335968749998,"end":30706.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30707.08034375,"end":30711.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30712.02471875,"end":30715.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30715.75409375,"end":30718.538468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30718.943468750003,"end":30742.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30742.60221875,"end":30755.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30755.781593749998,"end":30762.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30763.054718749998,"end":30763.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30763.797218749998,"end":30767.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30767.42534375,"end":30769.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30769.787843750004,"end":30773.280968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30773.55096875,"end":30774.124718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30774.58034375,"end":30779.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30780.16596875,"end":30782.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30782.91659375,"end":30786.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30787.15221875,"end":30788.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30788.755343750003,"end":30792.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30792.41721875,"end":30796.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30797.15909375,"end":30812.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30812.97096875,"end":30813.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30814.084718750004,"end":30833.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30815.19846875,"end":30815.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30815.249093750004,"end":30815.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30815.535968750002,"end":30815.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30818.37096875,"end":30819.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30820.851593749998,"end":30823.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30833.575343750003,"end":30835.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30835.95471875,"end":30839.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30840.105968750002,"end":30852.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30852.52596875,"end":30857.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30858.34784375,"end":30863.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30864.304718749998,"end":30873.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30873.990968750004,"end":30878.749718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30879.01971875,"end":30881.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30882.327218750004,"end":30883.913468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30884.70659375,"end":30889.819718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30890.764718750004,"end":30900.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30900.552218750003,"end":30904.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30905.47971875,"end":30911.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30911.858468750004,"end":30914.187218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30914.62596875,"end":30926.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30926.69159375,"end":30939.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30940.005968750003,"end":30944.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30944.91659375,"end":30961.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30961.960343750005,"end":31000.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":30965.28471875,"end":30965.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":30979.59471875,"end":30979.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30979.965968750003,"end":30980.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30990.05721875,"end":30990.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":31000.958468750003,"end":31011.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31006.07159375,"end":31006.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31010.18909375,"end":31014.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31021.866593750005,"end":31029.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31022.20409375,"end":31022.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31030.57409375,"end":31034.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31050.28409375,"end":31059.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31060.20659375,"end":31061.522843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":31070.39909375,"end":31071.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31071.107843750004,"end":31081.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31081.570343749998,"end":31082.937218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31083.30846875,"end":31085.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31085.687843749998,"end":31087.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31088.03346875,"end":31090.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31090.750343749998,"end":31097.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31096.116593750005,"end":31102.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31102.545968750004,"end":31103.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31104.99284375,"end":31112.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31111.000343749998,"end":31114.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31115.320343749998,"end":31116.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31116.53534375,"end":31118.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31118.897843750005,"end":31120.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31120.652843750002,"end":31121.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31122.880343750003,"end":31122.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31122.96471875,"end":31123.859093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31124.97284375,"end":31127.234093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31127.757218750005,"end":31129.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31129.90034375,"end":31132.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31133.17409375,"end":31135.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31135.030343750004,"end":31135.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31135.48596875,"end":31135.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31135.51971875,"end":31135.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31135.975343750004,"end":31136.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31136.02596875,"end":31136.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31136.717843750004,"end":31137.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31137.038468750005,"end":31137.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31138.101593749998,"end":31143.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31144.176593750002,"end":31148.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31148.59784375,"end":31148.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31148.614718750003,"end":31148.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31149.01971875,"end":31149.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31149.96471875,"end":31150.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31150.57221875,"end":31150.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31150.58909375,"end":31150.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31150.605968750002,"end":31151.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31153.154093750003,"end":31156.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31157.372843750003,"end":31157.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31158.419093750003,"end":31158.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31159.043468750002,"end":31159.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31160.967218750004,"end":31162.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31163.02596875,"end":31167.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31167.97034375,"end":31170.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31171.007843749998,"end":31172.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31173.539093749998,"end":31174.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31175.02409375,"end":31176.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31177.67346875,"end":31178.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31179.15846875,"end":31182.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31183.242218749998,"end":31186.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31187.106593750003,"end":31187.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31188.10221875,"end":31190.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31190.684093750002,"end":31194.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31194.396593750003,"end":31197.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31197.754718750002,"end":31200.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31201.39971875,"end":31206.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31207.559093750002,"end":31208.234093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31208.57159375,"end":31209.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31210.242218749998,"end":31211.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31211.170343750004,"end":31212.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31213.600343750004,"end":31214.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31215.203468749998,"end":31215.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31215.304718749998,"end":31215.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31215.67596875,"end":31215.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31215.810968750004,"end":31216.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31218.08909375,"end":31219.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31220.08034375,"end":31221.194093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31222.00409375,"end":31229.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31231.28534375,"end":31231.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31232.01096875,"end":31233.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31233.512843750003,"end":31243.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31233.59721875,"end":31234.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31234.289093749998,"end":31234.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":31240.11096875,"end":31240.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31240.12784375,"end":31240.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31240.14471875,"end":31240.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":31241.849093750003,"end":31241.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":31241.865968750004,"end":31242.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31242.03471875,"end":31243.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":31243.70534375,"end":31243.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31243.72221875,"end":31243.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31244.295968750004,"end":31247.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31248.109718749998,"end":31248.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31248.22784375,"end":31252.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31248.953468749998,"end":31251.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31252.36221875,"end":31252.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31253.138468750003,"end":31256.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31256.732843750004,"end":31258.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31258.437218750005,"end":31260.124718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31260.37784375,"end":31263.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31263.02721875,"end":31269.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31269.591593750003,"end":31270.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31271.295968750004,"end":31273.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31273.169093750003,"end":31273.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31273.185968750004,"end":31273.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31273.96221875,"end":31274.147843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31274.147843750005,"end":31274.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31274.367218749998,"end":31275.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31275.66659375,"end":31277.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31278.18096875,"end":31280.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31280.678468750004,"end":31283.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31283.56409375,"end":31288.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31288.997843750003,"end":31290.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31290.19596875,"end":31291.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31291.731593750003,"end":31292.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31293.435968750004,"end":31294.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31294.95471875,"end":31295.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31296.11909375,"end":31297.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31297.82346875,"end":31298.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31298.76846875,"end":31301.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31301.62034375,"end":31301.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31301.92409375,"end":31305.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31303.18971875,"end":31304.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31304.03346875,"end":31304.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31304.708468750003,"end":31304.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31306.02471875,"end":31306.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31306.04159375,"end":31306.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31306.092218750004,"end":31308.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31307.30721875,"end":31310.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31310.310968750004,"end":31310.327843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31310.513468750003,"end":31311.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31311.64409375,"end":31312.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31313.280968750005,"end":31315.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31315.559093750002,"end":31317.077843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31317.162218750003,"end":31320.672218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31321.279718750004,"end":31327.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31322.882843749998,"end":31323.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31327.270343750002,"end":31331.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31331.944718750005,"end":31334.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31334.695343749998,"end":31336.163468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31336.787843750004,"end":31337.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31338.036593750003,"end":31341.968468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":31339.15034375,"end":31340.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31342.44096875,"end":31349.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":31342.50846875,"end":31343.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31349.08971875,"end":31350.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31350.507218750005,"end":31359.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31350.55784375,"end":31350.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31359.265343750005,"end":31363.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31363.281593749998,"end":31366.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31364.817218750002,"end":31365.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31366.58909375,"end":31366.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31367.39909375,"end":31368.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31367.43284375,"end":31370.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31369.795343750004,"end":31374.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31375.617218749998,"end":31377.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31377.43971875,"end":31378.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31379.43096875,"end":31380.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31381.13534375,"end":31385.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31385.489093750002,"end":31385.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31385.910968750002,"end":31387.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31387.96971875,"end":31388.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31388.999093750004,"end":31392.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31389.083468750003,"end":31389.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31389.117218749998,"end":31390.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31390.85534375,"end":31390.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31390.872218750003,"end":31390.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31392.981593750003,"end":31394.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31393.015343750005,"end":31393.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31394.23034375,"end":31396.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31394.93909375,"end":31403.140343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31397.79096875,"end":31398.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31398.668468750002,"end":31398.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31399.07346875,"end":31399.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31399.107218750003,"end":31399.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31403.359718749998,"end":31403.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31403.37659375,"end":31412.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31405.131593750004,"end":31406.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31412.69159375,"end":31423.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31412.97846875,"end":31414.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31424.25096875,"end":31424.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31425.364718750003,"end":31425.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31425.381593750004,"end":31426.765343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31426.765343750005,"end":31426.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31427.085968749998,"end":31428.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31429.785968750002,"end":31433.937218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31434.578468749998,"end":31439.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31439.826593750004,"end":31447.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31447.082843750002,"end":31452.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31452.263468750003,"end":31453.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31452.53346875,"end":31455.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31453.765343750005,"end":31455.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31456.12784375,"end":31466.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31464.379718750002,"end":31464.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":31464.396593750003,"end":31465.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31465.037843750004,"end":31466.421593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31467.045968750004,"end":31469.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31469.965343750002,"end":31471.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31470.404093750003,"end":31473.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31472.24346875,"end":31474.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":31474.97721875,"end":31475.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31475.12909375,"end":31475.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31475.39909375,"end":31475.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31476.59721875,"end":31479.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":31478.04846875,"end":31478.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31480.57971875,"end":31482.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31483.31346875,"end":31486.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31486.536593750003,"end":31493.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31493.75909375,"end":31494.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31494.872843750003,"end":31498.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31498.450343750003,"end":31501.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":31501.35284375,"end":31508.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31508.76096875,"end":31511.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31511.747843750003,"end":31514.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31515.30846875,"end":31517.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31518.632843749998,"end":31519.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31520.03346875,"end":31520.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31521.70409375,"end":31524.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31525.19721875,"end":31528.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31529.061593750004,"end":31529.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31530.39471875,"end":31531.390343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31531.84596875,"end":31532.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31533.09471875,"end":31535.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31535.65971875,"end":31536.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31536.840968750003,"end":31537.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31536.89159375,"end":31538.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31538.224718750003,"end":31538.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31539.692843750003,"end":31542.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31540.975343750004,"end":31541.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31541.734718749998,"end":31549.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31545.700343750003,"end":31547.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31549.176593750002,"end":31550.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31551.420968750004,"end":31551.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31551.522218750004,"end":31553.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31551.57284375,"end":31551.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31555.77471875,"end":31561.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31560.21284375,"end":31563.132218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31562.153468750003,"end":31563.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31563.132218750005,"end":31563.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31563.46971875,"end":31570.202843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31570.77659375,"end":31571.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31572.092843750004,"end":31578.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31579.95659375,"end":31582.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31583.601593749998,"end":31586.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31586.90909375,"end":31589.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31590.38534375,"end":31591.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31591.97159375,"end":31612.812218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31612.035968750002,"end":31612.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":31612.879718750002,"end":31612.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31612.896593750003,"end":31614.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31613.824718750002,"end":31615.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31616.811593750004,"end":31617.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31618.98846875,"end":31619.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31619.005343750003,"end":31620.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31619.07284375,"end":31620.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31620.74346875,"end":31621.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31621.06409375,"end":31622.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31622.22846875,"end":31622.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31622.414093749998,"end":31626.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31626.97034375,"end":31628.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31627.375343749998,"end":31632.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31628.927843750003,"end":31628.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31628.97846875,"end":31629.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":31629.062843749998,"end":31629.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31629.18096875,"end":31630.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31630.716593750003,"end":31631.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31632.45471875,"end":31634.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31634.80034375,"end":31635.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31635.914093749998,"end":31639.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31640.16659375,"end":31640.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31640.318468750003,"end":31640.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31640.402843750002,"end":31643.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31640.537843750004,"end":31643.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31643.72721875,"end":31647.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31647.86159375,"end":31649.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31649.717843750004,"end":31652.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31651.03409375,"end":31651.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31652.029718750004,"end":31656.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31657.26096875,"end":31661.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31661.969093749998,"end":31670.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31670.288468750005,"end":31681.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31681.81409375,"end":31690.538468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31691.179718749998,"end":31691.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31692.023468749998,"end":31693.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31694.36909375,"end":31705.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31696.68096875,"end":31696.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31696.69784375,"end":31697.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31697.693468750003,"end":31697.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31705.911593750003,"end":31722.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31706.012843750003,"end":31706.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31709.05034375,"end":31710.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31720.677218750003,"end":31721.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31723.05659375,"end":31724.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31724.355968750002,"end":31725.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31725.756593750004,"end":31726.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31726.65096875,"end":31728.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31728.74346875,"end":31731.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31731.59534375,"end":31731.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31732.607843750004,"end":31733.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31734.059093750002,"end":31734.734093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31735.42596875,"end":31735.999718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31737.07971875,"end":31738.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31739.42534375,"end":31740.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31741.028468750003,"end":31742.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31742.192843750003,"end":31742.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31742.76659375,"end":31743.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31743.036593750003,"end":31743.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31744.639718750004,"end":31746.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31747.373468750004,"end":31747.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31748.655968750005,"end":31749.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31749.499718750005,"end":31750.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31750.78221875,"end":31752.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31752.098468750002,"end":31752.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31752.14909375,"end":31752.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31752.975968750005,"end":31753.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31753.583468750003,"end":31754.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31753.66784375,"end":31754.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31754.83221875,"end":31755.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31755.01784375,"end":31755.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31755.186593750004,"end":31755.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31755.22034375,"end":31758.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31755.270968750003,"end":31757.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31758.62909375,"end":31767.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31761.68346875,"end":31761.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":31761.700343750003,"end":31761.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":31761.717218750004,"end":31762.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31768.07909375,"end":31769.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31770.795968750004,"end":31771.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31771.926593750002,"end":31772.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31772.989718750003,"end":31775.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31773.17534375,"end":31773.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31775.639093750004,"end":31778.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31775.90909375,"end":31776.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31776.246593750002,"end":31776.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31776.904718750004,"end":31776.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31777.647218750004,"end":31777.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31777.664093749998,"end":31778.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31778.30534375,"end":31780.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31780.33034375,"end":31782.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31783.16534375,"end":31784.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31784.97096875,"end":31786.304093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31787.28284375,"end":31788.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31788.97034375,"end":31789.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31790.05034375,"end":31790.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31790.910968750002,"end":31793.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31793.779718750004,"end":31799.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31797.779093750003,"end":31799.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31799.73659375,"end":31799.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31800.006593750004,"end":31803.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":31804.27596875,"end":31806.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31805.10284375,"end":31806.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":31806.90846875,"end":31809.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31808.91659375,"end":31808.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31808.93346875,"end":31808.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31809.00096875,"end":31809.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31811.059718750003,"end":31812.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31813.169093750003,"end":31814.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31814.83971875,"end":31815.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31816.155968750005,"end":31818.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31818.51846875,"end":31820.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31820.61096875,"end":31821.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31822.18034375,"end":31825.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31826.09534375,"end":31827.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31827.66471875,"end":31829.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31828.82909375,"end":31831.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31830.95534375,"end":31831.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":31831.630343750003,"end":31832.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31832.271593750003,"end":31833.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31834.12784375,"end":31835.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31836.13596875,"end":31836.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31836.35534375,"end":31839.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31836.96284375,"end":31838.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31838.312843749998,"end":31838.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31840.21971875,"end":31841.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31841.772218750004,"end":31847.374718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31848.015968749998,"end":31848.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31849.365968750004,"end":31850.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31850.37846875,"end":31851.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31851.390968749998,"end":31853.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31854.37784375,"end":31855.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31854.47909375,"end":31860.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31861.178468750004,"end":31861.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31861.195343749998,"end":31862.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31861.22909375,"end":31861.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31861.98846875,"end":31862.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31863.23721875,"end":31865.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31865.88659375,"end":31867.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31867.67534375,"end":31868.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31869.00846875,"end":31869.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31870.27409375,"end":31871.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31871.23596875,"end":31873.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31874.020343750002,"end":31875.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31875.69096875,"end":31879.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31879.622843750003,"end":31880.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31881.411593750003,"end":31882.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31883.537843750004,"end":31884.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31884.97221875,"end":31888.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31887.030968750005,"end":31887.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31888.22909375,"end":31888.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31888.76909375,"end":31889.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31889.039093749998,"end":31894.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31889.545343750004,"end":31891.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":31891.975343750004,"end":31894.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":31894.11846875,"end":31894.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31894.827218750004,"end":31898.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31898.522843750005,"end":31901.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31902.57284375,"end":31906.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31906.656593749998,"end":31918.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31918.975343750004,"end":31920.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31920.544718750003,"end":31921.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31922.16471875,"end":31922.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31923.396593750003,"end":31925.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31926.07971875,"end":31927.952843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31928.30721875,"end":31931.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31931.969093749998,"end":31940.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31940.76096875,"end":31944.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31944.709718750004,"end":31946.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31946.903468750003,"end":31950.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31951.037843750004,"end":31952.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31952.742218749998,"end":31955.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31955.61096875,"end":31959.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31959.72846875,"end":31960.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31960.55534375,"end":31962.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31961.922218749998,"end":31961.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31961.93909375,"end":31968.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31963.609718749998,"end":31966.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":31966.967843750004,"end":31967.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31967.01846875,"end":31967.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31968.975968750005,"end":31969.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31969.33034375,"end":31969.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31969.819718750005,"end":31969.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31969.85346875,"end":31976.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31976.08034375,"end":31977.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31976.130968750003,"end":31976.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31977.14346875,"end":31978.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31978.037843750004,"end":31979.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31980.70409375,"end":31981.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31981.615343750003,"end":31981.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31981.64909375,"end":31981.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31981.699718750002,"end":31981.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31981.76721875,"end":31981.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":31981.80096875,"end":31983.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31983.48846875,"end":31986.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31987.184093750002,"end":31989.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":31989.023468749998,"end":31990.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":31990.94721875,"end":31990.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":31993.934093750002,"end":31998.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32003.16471875,"end":32006.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32007.28221875,"end":32009.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32011.889093750004,"end":32014.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32016.090968750003,"end":32020.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":32022.098468750002,"end":32022.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":32022.16596875,"end":32022.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":32022.30096875,"end":32022.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":32022.36846875,"end":32022.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32022.739718750003,"end":32026.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":32027.093468750005,"end":32027.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":32028.40971875,"end":32029.304093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":32029.523468749998,"end":32031.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32033.01659375,"end":32034.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32041.740968750004,"end":32041.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":32041.757843749998,"end":32042.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32042.449718750002,"end":32055.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":32044.00221875,"end":32044.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":32044.20471875,"end":32044.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32056.000343749998,"end":32068.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32068.69034375,"end":32127.820343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32128.17471875,"end":32129.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32129.74409375,"end":32131.397843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32130.115343750003,"end":32131.195343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32131.75221875,"end":32132.882843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32133.169718750003,"end":32134.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32134.857218750003,"end":32136.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32137.54034375,"end":32143.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32144.172218749998,"end":32146.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32147.513468750003,"end":32148.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32148.998468750004,"end":32149.859093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32150.11221875,"end":32151.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32151.59721875,"end":32153.234093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32153.301593750002,"end":32154.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32154.83721875,"end":32155.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32155.866593750005,"end":32157.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32157.28409375,"end":32160.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32161.047218749998,"end":32161.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32162.819093750004,"end":32164.202843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32164.287218750003,"end":32165.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32166.00846875,"end":32173.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32174.108468750004,"end":32176.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32177.787218750003,"end":32181.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32181.921593750005,"end":32182.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32183.64284375,"end":32184.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32185.24596875,"end":32186.882843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32187.22034375,"end":32187.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32188.09784375,"end":32194.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32194.81409375,"end":32196.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32197.90221875,"end":32199.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32200.247843750003,"end":32202.070343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32202.795968750004,"end":32206.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32207.740343750003,"end":32209.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32209.967843750004,"end":32211.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32211.99284375,"end":32215.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32215.80659375,"end":32217.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32217.59534375,"end":32220.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32220.936593750004,"end":32230.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32230.45409375,"end":32231.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32232.732218750003,"end":32233.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32234.14971875,"end":32235.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32235.600968750005,"end":32237.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32237.74409375,"end":32238.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32239.060343750003,"end":32241.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32242.030343750004,"end":32243.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32244.73034375,"end":32251.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32251.851593750005,"end":32252.273468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32253.04971875,"end":32256.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32256.812843749998,"end":32273.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32274.059093750002,"end":32295.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32296.350968750005,"end":32309.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32309.496593750002,"end":32315.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32315.858468750004,"end":32317.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32317.19159375,"end":32331.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32331.29909375,"end":32339.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32339.29784375,"end":32378.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32379.69659375,"end":32398.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32399.32221875,"end":32403.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32403.068468750003,"end":32403.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":32403.085343750005,"end":32410.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":32411.100968750005,"end":32414.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":32414.74596875,"end":32414.897843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":32415.100343750004,"end":32434.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32434.96221875,"end":32479.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":32437.898468750005,"end":32438.100968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32479.91721875,"end":32522.897843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32486.43096875,"end":32487.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32523.47159375,"end":32540.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32541.73034375,"end":32555.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32556.209093750003,"end":32608.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32608.926593750002,"end":32615.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32616.72284375,"end":32620.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32620.90784375,"end":32622.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32624.434718750003,"end":32625.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32624.789093750005,"end":32625.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32626.155968750005,"end":32630.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32630.965343750002,"end":32633.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32633.69909375,"end":32635.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32635.335968750005,"end":32635.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32636.12909375,"end":32637.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32637.58034375,"end":32638.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32639.36909375,"end":32640.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":32641.17471875,"end":32641.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32641.529093750003,"end":32643.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32644.279718750004,"end":32645.140343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32645.83221875,"end":32647.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32647.78971875,"end":32648.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32648.97096875,"end":32651.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32652.092843750004,"end":32653.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32653.61159375,"end":32655.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32655.53534375,"end":32657.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32658.285968750002,"end":32668.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32668.849718750003,"end":32676.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32675.12721875,"end":32675.295968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32676.426593750002,"end":32697.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32698.41471875,"end":32723.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32724.16596875,"end":32727.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32727.726593750005,"end":32741.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32741.547218749998,"end":32746.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32746.84596875,"end":32790.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32791.54784375,"end":32792.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32793.319718750005,"end":32795.445968750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32795.73284375,"end":32800.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32801.36909375001,"end":32809.350968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32809.51971875,"end":32816.100968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32816.20221875,"end":32822.665343750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32823.20534375,"end":32824.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32824.25159375,"end":32825.88846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32826.15846875,"end":32830.51221875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32830.56284375,"end":32837.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32837.71784375,"end":32850.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32850.81284375,"end":32856.820343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32857.32659375,"end":32872.91909375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32873.37471875,"end":32877.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32878.60596875001,"end":32879.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32879.90534375,"end":32880.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32881.23846875,"end":32883.820343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32884.10721875001,"end":32885.11971875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32885.524718750006,"end":32887.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32887.819718750005,"end":32888.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32889.287843750004,"end":32889.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32890.19909375001,"end":32893.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32893.65846875,"end":32896.94909375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32897.20221875,"end":32899.48034375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32899.851593750005,"end":32900.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32901.18471875001,"end":32901.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32902.31534375,"end":32903.47971875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32903.83409375,"end":32914.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":32914.71846875,"end":32918.633468750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32919.08909375001,"end":32919.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32919.61221875,"end":32928.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32928.45471875,"end":32936.16659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32937.398468750005,"end":32941.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32941.29659375,"end":32946.274718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32948.08034375,"end":32950.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32950.30784375001,"end":32953.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32953.49721875001,"end":32954.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32963.149718750006,"end":32963.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32966.00159375,"end":32969.91659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32970.35534375001,"end":32976.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32976.32909375,"end":32978.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32978.67471875,"end":32983.804718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32984.54721875,"end":32985.30659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32985.76221875001,"end":32988.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32988.59721875,"end":32993.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":32993.710343750005,"end":33001.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33002.23221875001,"end":33017.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33018.04409375001,"end":33020.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33021.82409375001,"end":33023.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33024.06846875,"end":33042.31034375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33043.20471875,"end":33043.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33046.96784375,"end":33048.149093750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33053.76846875,"end":33056.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33056.90721875,"end":33058.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33059.77596875001,"end":33062.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33062.79659375,"end":33069.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33070.13721875001,"end":33071.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33072.195968750006,"end":33073.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33074.69346875,"end":33077.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33077.59596875,"end":33080.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33080.98784375,"end":33084.008468750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33085.071593750006,"end":33095.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33097.05284375,"end":33098.80784375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33099.44909375001,"end":33101.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33102.28409375,"end":33108.32534375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":33108.81471875,"end":33113.60721875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40194.77909375001,"end":40197.29346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40197.76596875,"end":40202.37284375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40202.79471875001,"end":40207.41846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40207.82346875001,"end":40208.66721875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40208.98784375,"end":40210.79346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40211.26596875,"end":40214.944718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40215.383468750006,"end":40219.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40219.821593750006,"end":40220.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40221.03659375,"end":40221.99846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40222.25159375,"end":40224.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40225.17096875,"end":40226.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40227.24659375001,"end":40230.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40231.48221875001,"end":40232.899718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40233.18659375,"end":40235.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40236.274718750006,"end":40237.37159375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40237.742843750006,"end":40239.24471875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40239.615968750004,"end":40242.585968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40243.27784375001,"end":40243.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40244.03721875,"end":40245.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40245.91034375,"end":40248.12096875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40248.45846875,"end":40250.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40251.023468750005,"end":40253.41971875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40253.89221875,"end":40254.24659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40254.70221875,"end":40255.883468750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40256.44034375,"end":40259.039093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40259.64659375,"end":40261.43534375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40261.67159375,"end":40264.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40265.51909375,"end":40266.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40266.95346875,"end":40267.71284375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40268.55659375001,"end":40269.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40269.82221875001,"end":40271.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40271.10471875001,"end":40273.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40273.29846875,"end":40275.10409375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":40275.20534375,"end":40275.99846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40275.99846875001,"end":40276.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40276.30221875,"end":40279.54221875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40280.31846875,"end":40285.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40286.39346875,"end":40289.65034375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40289.95409375,"end":40295.80971875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40296.164093750005,"end":40303.58909375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40304.04471875001,"end":40306.913468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40307.36909375001,"end":40307.58846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40307.90909375,"end":40315.82346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40316.65034375001,"end":40317.12284375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40318.23659375,"end":40329.30659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40329.94784375001,"end":40343.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40344.64596875,"end":40346.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40346.73846875,"end":40360.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40361.08221875,"end":40371.30846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40371.78096875,"end":40373.01284375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40374.31221875,"end":40415.84159375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40416.56721875,"end":40502.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40502.22471875,"end":40503.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40505.430968750006,"end":40512.19784375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40939.64159375,"end":40942.32471875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40943.47221875,"end":40955.149718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40955.82471875001,"end":40956.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40956.63471875001,"end":40961.899718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":40962.67596875,"end":40972.46346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41095.22909375001,"end":41095.836593750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41095.97159375,"end":41098.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41098.85721875001,"end":41102.21534375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41102.350343750004,"end":41117.62221875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41234.04284375001,"end":41234.835968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41235.32534375001,"end":41250.05721875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41250.95159375001,"end":41251.55909375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41252.28471875,"end":41253.415343750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41253.92159375,"end":41258.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41258.52846875001,"end":41264.87346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41267.08409375,"end":41268.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41270.290343750006,"end":41272.87221875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41273.76659375,"end":41280.195968750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41281.680968750006,"end":41286.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41286.87846875,"end":41287.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41364.26721875,"end":41370.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41370.35909375,"end":41372.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41372.789093750005,"end":41374.898468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41375.50596875,"end":41377.46346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41377.88534375001,"end":41381.243468750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41382.15471875001,"end":41383.335968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41384.618468750006,"end":41392.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41466.006593750004,"end":41473.90409375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41474.78159375,"end":41477.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41477.397218750004,"end":41482.08846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41482.96596875001,"end":41484.45096875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41484.85596875001,"end":41494.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41494.272218750004,"end":41502.97971875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41503.553468750004,"end":41510.742218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41512.14284375,"end":41520.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41512.24409375001,"end":41513.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41521.37346875001,"end":41552.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41554.14471875,"end":41559.76409375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41560.320968750006,"end":41563.695968750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41564.25284375,"end":41569.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41570.15909375,"end":41571.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41571.81284375,"end":41574.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41576.63909375001,"end":41578.73159375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41579.102843750006,"end":41582.460968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41582.51159375001,"end":41582.680343750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41582.69721875001,"end":41583.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41584.43534375001,"end":41588.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41588.31659375,"end":41589.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41590.61159375,"end":41592.805343750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41683.508468750006,"end":41687.727218750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41687.84534375,"end":41692.82346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41693.02596875001,"end":41693.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41694.274718750006,"end":41694.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41695.97909375001,"end":41698.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41699.28659375,"end":41703.134093750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41705.04096875001,"end":41706.930968750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41707.16721875001,"end":41711.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41713.29284375001,"end":41716.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41716.600343750004,"end":41717.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41718.15284375001,"end":41720.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41722.00034375,"end":41722.540343750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41723.18159375001,"end":41726.16846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41726.97846875001,"end":41742.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":41742.80721875001,"end":41746.31721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1794.847,"end":1807.099,"text":"主委長、各位列席、首長、大家早安。報議院會現在我們繼續開會進行114年度中央政府總預算案及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算報告之質詢。首先我們請張志倫委員質詢。"},{"start":1829.468,"end":1849.305,"text":"委員長早好,院長早各位委員、各位官員大家早是不是先請我們卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":1859.855,"end":1872.703,"text":"三位院長院長早今天是我們這個總預算的這個質詢首先還是要跟卓院長請教這個總預算要附委一定要有一個解方"},{"start":1873.359,"end":1899.803,"text":"那上次在上禮拜五的質詢好像你比較有提出善意啊你有提出來說是可以用有關於禁法補償的部分是有機會用第二預備金或是追加預算的方式來去做這個禁法補償的一個解方那本席這邊是不是今天可以來請你當Keyman來把這個問題再做更清楚的一個說明"},{"start":1900.489,"end":1915.18,"text":"就是依照預算法第70條這個進法補償的部分是不是可以用第二預備金你如果是願意的話其實現在你就可以直接宣布如果你願意用第二預備金來解決這個問題的話這個進法補償從3萬塊提到6萬塊的部分就可以立馬來解決了"},{"start":1921.325,"end":1948.4,"text":"那第二個方式是也是你上次提到的要追加預算可是追加預算的部分還是要等你未來把這個預算送到立法院未來要三途通過那還有一段的時程還有一段未來立法院行政院要來處理的一個進度是不是請院長來說明一下我很謝謝委員在上一週的報告當中有看到我們在書面以及口頭的說明"},{"start":1949.625,"end":1971.864,"text":"也謝謝委員把它形容是一種善意我覺得那是一個原則性的問題我一直強調在憲法70條的精神底下在預算法91條的精神底下如果行政跟立法兩院互相尊重那在這個前提確立那往後我們也依照這樣的方式來進行所有的預算跟法律案的討論那這個"},{"start":1973.986,"end":1993.83,"text":"這個共識確立這個原則確立未來的整個程序也確立那針對這個今年明年度的中央政府總預算大家現在還有所爭議的這個進化補償那我們可以雙方來執照共同的資金提供目前的爭議在哪裡目前就是"},{"start":1994.48,"end":2008.949,"text":"在依照預算法第91條的規定在大院審查預算增加稅出的時候必須徵詢行政院的意見同時要指出彌補資金之來源"},{"start":2011.391,"end":2014.332,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":2034.457,"end":2037.463,"text":"你願不願意往前進一步來回應在野黨的不分黨派的想法?"},{"start":2046.852,"end":2047.873,"text":"因為在歷次的這個尋答過程當中"},{"start":2068.945,"end":2091.558,"text":"用基金有的大院委員有不同的意見用二倍金有的認為他使用的用途有所限制用追加預算又有人認為他要到明年但是我們總會找出一個方式只要大家說好在這樣的原則程序跟他的法律的規定之下我們一定可以找出一個方式大家能夠各守一步"},{"start":2092.603,"end":2106.498,"text":"院長我最後再請教你最後一次就您今天如果願意提出善意的回應這三種你覺得會比較往哪一個方式走對您心中覺得是可以比較往這個方向前進"},{"start":2108.905,"end":2137.974,"text":"我可以說我的想法啦但是...好請說一定會引起其他對這個想法不同意見的想法請說你的想法大家會願意尊重行政院長的想法我認為用基金的方式最方便未來我們是不是可以再嘗試用公務預算來填補基金這是一個最方式實際上三個你今天三選二已經剩兩個那兩個裡面如果是基金跟這個追加預算的部分你會選哪一個我認為追加預算可能是大家爭議比較少的"},{"start":2138.473,"end":2164.663,"text":"好所以你最後我今天就問到這裡啊所以你認為說你要用追加預算的方式來而不是用第二預備金因為第二預備金你可能覺得用的方式他的所有規定內容也不是這麼的明確所以你認為說以預算法70條跟預算法79條預算法79條追加預算的方式可能是比較能行的一條路是嗎大家如果有共識明年我們變追加預算會有朝這個方向來做"},{"start":2165.123,"end":2179.141,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝院長我們再一起繼續加油尋求共識謝謝您的善意好第二個我要來請教今天這個政府總預算的部分大家都知道114年度中央總預算的部分編列了3兆1325億"},{"start":2182.345,"end":2209.093,"text":"主要最大的我們看到這塊餅主要最大的就是講補助費跟業務費本席針對預算編列的部分其實我很重視我們預算中心以及我們審計部給我們政府的意見其中預算中心裡面就有提到說現在他有發現就是我們在編列預算的時候有非常多的委辦費"},{"start":2210.934,"end":2236.254,"text":"政府在編列預算的時候有業務費可是我們希望政府可以越來越專業越來越精進那當然政府的想法是說有些他自己不能做的委辦出去可是我們現在有發現預算中心有特別提到說政府他的原額有增加越來越多可是委辦費也增加的越來越多的這個情形顧名思義政府著手"},{"start":2237.489,"end":2237.809,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":2259.443,"end":2261.084,"text":"我們現在看下一張圖齁"},{"start":2286.497,"end":2298.754,"text":"這就是所有的單位大家可以發現越來越多的單位其實委辦費用都超過50%而且還有人員增加的一個問題所以我認為這個人民的納稅錢每一塊錢都是非常的重要"},{"start":2299.639,"end":2327.646,"text":"我這邊是不是等一下請院長回答之前我這邊有一個小有一個建議是不是可以來統整來幫政府某些很多單位來做健檢如果各部會的委辦費超過50%可是人員有增加的這樣的狀況是不是可以提出檢討的報告讓人民知道說人民的納稅錢是沒有被浪費的事實上是有這樣的委辦費有需要這樣的編列而且人員不應該有增加那麼多請院長回答"},{"start":2328.428,"end":2350.494,"text":"我很贊成委員這樣的意見第一個政府增加員額有的可能是組織的調整或增加像我們的數位發展部、未來的運動部它就會增加員額但是政府很多專業的研究業務必須跟外界的專業來做結合來做進行討論跟研究但這個必須在嚴謹的專業的評鑑底下去選擇適合的合作的對象"},{"start":2354.255,"end":2372.668,"text":"所以未來政府要聽過這樣的方式什麼樣的業務需要委外去辦理之後要形成什麼樣的成效效果來給提供給我們執行或做參考這必須要非常嚴謹那我會照委員的建議我們會嚴謹的重新的來考量這個事情"},{"start":2373.646,"end":2403.175,"text":"的確第一個委辦費的部分越來越多人民我覺得他信任的是政府而不是相信政府不應該把人民納稅錢差不多一半以上都拿去委外那當然還有獎補助費像超市雞蛋案就是一個獎補助費非常嚴重一個政府沒有辦法管到我們獎補助單位的一個情形就是大家知道嘛這個農業部委託續產會續產會委託超市超市委託量產結果發現政府單位其實他沒有辦法管到超市跟量產"},{"start":2403.815,"end":2404.115,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":2429.977,"end":2451.972,"text":"沒有想說要來自己做綠能,因為他認為台電自己做綠能速度太慢。第二、國務部長也跟我特別強調說政府當時在要做儲能設備,可是做到2025年政策就有可能會轉彎。可是他說未來有可能政府還是要考慮做儲能設備,部長好。"},{"start":2452.776,"end":2468.187,"text":"那我想要請教剛剛講的這些委辦的相關的問題政府難道可以把我們重要的我們的能源通通交給民間業者來做還有現在我們到底儲能設備未來要如何來做有沒有一些新的規劃"},{"start":2469.841,"end":2473.702,"text":"部長,您的調整方式是什麼?我直接給你看資料好了。現在我們所有台灣"},{"start":2493.607,"end":2522.722,"text":"像外購的電力已經將近高達快要30%那我一直想請問部長跟院長你知不知道未來如果這樣子以現在的目前的政策來講未來我們的國家能源可能有50%以上都成為外購電力那我請教一下如果台灣全50%以上都是外購電力的話這樣會不會任性不足啊你認為說這樣子未來的能源政策到底是民間來主導還是政府來主導"},{"start":2524.744,"end":2526.165,"text":"我還是非常擔心這樣的問題產生"},{"start":2552.526,"end":2581.722,"text":"剛一直講政府的委辦費用如果超過50%政府未來的電力如果50%以上都是跟民間採購的話未來政府的力道會越來越小那未來人民對政府的信任也會越來越低那我還再請教一下這個部長的部分因為部長上來了部長你之前有講過要去菲律賓買電那一度電4塊錢我們可以看到下一張圖我們台灣現在購買再生能源的"},{"start":2582.585,"end":2587.427,"text":"請問部長我有兩個看法第一個你是不是認為說這個臺灣的再生能源的價格太高第二個會讓我覺得是不是臺灣再生能源中間有很多的這個利潤報告委員我想這個是規模的問題"},{"start":2612.709,"end":2637.555,"text":"規模的問題我想經濟學我想你應該都學過這個規模越大它的成本越低我想這個在菲律賓我可以買到比較便宜的電是因為它的規模很大所以它的建置成本就很低台灣因為我們這個台灣就是這麼小那能夠建置的這個區塊區域沒有那麼大所以它相對的成本就高"},{"start":2638.424,"end":2665.68,"text":"好,那我想要請教院長,你對部長的想法你能接受嗎?台灣現在,等於是說台灣現在在做冤大頭,跟花人民的納稅錢,來做這個外購電力的採購,風力發電要6塊5,太陽能光電要4塊8,可是從菲律賓買電只要4塊錢,請問部長有跟院長報告過這件事情嗎?未來我們是台灣就往這個,因為看,聽起來部長的想法還是非常的有自信,"},{"start":2666.434,"end":2692.056,"text":"是委員臺灣有我們的地理環境的限制也有我們市場規模的限制那部長來自民間企業我們一開始邀請部長來擔任這個工作第一個就是希望他用民間企業經營管理的這種精神跟方式能夠讓我們的公部門包括我們的這些事業單位能夠有新的想法那新的想法不一定是"},{"start":2693.237,"end":2712.811,"text":"一朝半日可以完全實施但新的辦法會刺激我們做更多的想像會刺激我們做更多元的接觸那現在都在這個過程當中我覺得部長很多的想法我們都會經過很深思熟慮的考慮甚至合作的對象進行的時程預算的編列我們都會盡量這種程序來辦理的"},{"start":2714.096,"end":2730.276,"text":"好 謝謝院長的分享所以這邊還是要跟部長特別的拜託啦就是說很多的政策跟很多的想法其實在講出來以後其實會造成人民的恐慌也會造成現在整個台電的一些問題我一直感覺到台灣的綠能政策是有相當大的問題"},{"start":2731.957,"end":2754.09,"text":"現在台電原本是資優生現在台電員工在看醫生我真的拜託部長有機會去台電走走問問台電這些基層員工的心聲其實他們的壓力都很大而且他們對現在台灣的能源政策其實都認為現在中央是沒有聽到地方或是基層人民的心聲接下來下一個問題我要來請教有關於地方"},{"start":2759.953,"end":2763.4,"text":"這個重要的這個交通交通的交通"},{"start":2796.732,"end":2805.338,"text":"謝謝張志仁委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。接下來,我們請登記第16位,麥玉珍委員質詢。"},{"start":2830.032,"end":2830.232,"text":"主席"},{"start":2856.301,"end":2881.503,"text":"主委好院長好今天我想要跟院長單獨對話,可以嗎?其他部會不要上來坐著就可以,不用理他對,不用他們,你一個人就好了所以我想要請教一下我們今天大家都來質詢我們的院長的目的是什麼?"},{"start":2883.484,"end":2910.95,"text":"希望我能夠說明之後讓總預算能夠順利覆尾審查完畢之後明年度我們能夠幫所有的政策有一個執行的能力跟時程好對所以呢下一頁所以我就是因為這個事情我們要來執行的嘛所以我用越南語要學那個吳思瑤我用越南語跟大家呼應一下"},{"start":2912.188,"end":2913.148,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":2928.326,"end":2945.066,"text":"這個就是我們要你代表行政就是政府機構我代表的民間團體要來跟你對話民間團體是國民一起來去對話非常抱歉你說的跟吳士耀委員一樣的好聽但是話還是聽不懂"},{"start":2946.327,"end":2974.207,"text":"當然你聽得懂的話你就是越南人你要學越南語所以我們進入正題我要想要請教一下我們行政院在送中央行政機關組織基本法修正草案在推動運動部還有全民運動署的機構數量修法是包含新住民發展署對嗎"},{"start":2975.794,"end":2976.174,"text":"新住民發展署"},{"start":2996.533,"end":3009.137,"text":"原來的體育署將來我們在全民運動署會歸屬到運動部下面去所以這個機關的這個數量我們也已經在整個限制額底下機關額數底下已經是"},{"start":3011.598,"end":3031.851,"text":"是,所以說我們新住民發展署是我們總統在8月12號公布嘛,所以在我們的立法的過程也是說他一年就會成立新住民發展署,所以是在修法的時候是已經是考量在裡面,已經在訂在裡面了嗎?"},{"start":3035.212,"end":3049.893,"text":"這個我應該要再查清楚一下我們現在是在運動部裡面有前面發展所以查清楚是要依法行事還是說真的是查清楚以你說的算跟這個一樣嗎當然要查清楚之後說的才算啊"},{"start":3050.722,"end":3069.731,"text":"所以說你在修法的時候不是考量立法是考量你想說還是考量立法考量法律的規定我們中央機關組織基準法裡面對所有員額跟機關數量的限制我們考量是這個限制不是誰說的算"},{"start":3070.131,"end":3098.872,"text":"好,這樣考量的限制就是依法來去做考量來去立法還有去改變嘛所以就等於是你有把新住民基本那個發展署放在裡面這樣我才知道說什麼時候因為一年後嘛一年後就是八月是一年後就是明年八月所以如果是這樣子的話我們就是要大量去推廣我們大量去推廣要跟"},{"start":3099.773,"end":3102.134,"text":"我們現在在推的是運動部跟全民運動署在這個中央組織機關裡面的調整是這個方式"},{"start":3130.629,"end":3150.357,"text":"所以說你就是一直在說運動署所以新住民發展署是沒有考量在裡面嗎?是沒有在照修法來去做初步的去預算?這個需要再進一步的研議啦我們現在在整個數量的限制上面就是這個樣子剛剛可能有人報告的"},{"start":3151.26,"end":3179.762,"text":"所以這個樣子就是表示說在依法的來去規劃來去修法在新住民發展署是在你的修法的裡面是不是目前我們還要在研議這個事情研議是不照法律的規定研議就是我們繼續努力的意思繼續努力所以說就明年就會實現實現也是需要努力"},{"start":3181.03,"end":3209.201,"text":"對,實現當然是要努力啊但是有目標有規劃才能努力才能達成嘛目標是可以,目標是很清楚那時程我們要想辦法在一個法定的基礎底下能夠推動那時程才能夠定得出來好,所以都是說努力跟推廣但是我們是依法嘛所以我要請教一下我們現在你摸著院長摸著良心講你的眼睛有沒有有我"},{"start":3210.916,"end":3223.953,"text":"你的眼裡有沒有我?有嗎?在這個議事廳裡面接著對話的就是你跟我。有沒有?只有,只有你委員跟我在對話。好,你眼裡有沒有我?"},{"start":3226.386,"end":3238.576,"text":"這個回家不好交代不好交代所以呢你眼裡有我是正常人因為你看著我你眼裡有我是正常人如果沒有的話你要去看醫生了那這樣講是說我的眼前有你不能說眼裡有我"},{"start":3244.1,"end":3259.332,"text":"對,你眼裡有我就是你表示你的心裡會把新住民發展署放在心裡。如果你的眼裡沒有看到我的話,你的心裡就把新住民變成惡等。我眼前,眼前我們是在對話,新住民發展署我們會放在心裡這樣子。"},{"start":3259.872,"end":3261.132,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":3287.498,"end":3316.32,"text":"中華民國是法治國家對嗎?是嗎?我問你是不是?是不是法治國家?好,如果是法治國家是不是我們都要就是遵守我們的法律的規定包含你?是嗎?好,如果是這樣子的話比如說萬一院長你開車出去撞死人了是警察馬上辦還是要通過行政院同意才能辦?"},{"start":3319.09,"end":3320.071,"text":"所以我再度提醒委員預算法91條的規定"},{"start":3345.489,"end":3360.109,"text":"立法院在對行政院審查預算法律的時候對於稅出有增加稅出的時候必須徵詢行政院的意見同時要指出彌補資金之來源換句話說"},{"start":3363.871,"end":3380.981,"text":"委員在審查預算或是法案的時候所以你是依法行政嘛 對不對有兩個要件一個要徵詢行政院的意見一個要找出增加這筆預算它的資金來源在哪裡好 所以你是依法行政嘛 是嗎"},{"start":3381.687,"end":3397.039,"text":"要依這個法行政?好,你依法行政的話,這樣子我們的法律通過的是多少萬?幾萬?我們經法補償是幾萬?依法通過的?6萬。所以你有依法去編列嗎?那3萬的來源在哪裡?"},{"start":3399.299,"end":3424.486,"text":"三萬的來源,彌補資金的來源,增加的三萬來源在哪裡?我現在問你的是依法編列嘛。依法就要指出三萬的來源在哪裡,我才能依法啊。對,依法來源在哪裡,你自己要去想辦法。哪有這種事?我編了預算,你把它增加,叫我自己來源去想辦法。剛才,因為我的門的助理很厲害啦,他知道說你一定要回我就是91條還有70條。"},{"start":3426.867,"end":3440.284,"text":"但是呢我要跟你講的明確的用於預算法不包含法律法律案預算案不包含法律案所以預算案呢第91條"},{"start":3442.066,"end":3461.642,"text":"也是就是要求立法委員徵詢行政院的意見而非取得同意所以立法院三讀通過後行政院或有異議在10天內提出覆議你沒有提出覆議表示你同意"},{"start":3462.702,"end":3491.334,"text":"你有同意你覺得有這個預算你要去算嘛 對不對委員那一天我們在參敘中都講得很清楚你只記得你的問題你從來不瞭解我的答案對你說再講一次讓大家聽到我知道你說為什麼行政院不提出復議那天我也說了我想用其他的方式其他的方式還有很多那提出復議其他方式我們有沒有依法"},{"start":3492.486,"end":3492.766,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":3517.321,"end":3529.177,"text":"民進黨的主席我是因為你我才加入民進黨的因為很多人推薦我但是有一個人跟我講說要跟卓院長去學習他當"},{"start":3532.381,"end":3538.405,"text":"我希望是這樣所以我也一心不忍不希望你為了這件事情負責我希望說你繼續"},{"start":3560.978,"end":3585.845,"text":"為我們的人民來工作我覺得我現在最重要的工作就是建立一套兩院互動的關係一定要在憲法跟法律的基礎底下我們希望依法來去編列剛才你有講依法是多少是6萬但是你沒有依法4萬從哪裡來我們看不到你可以再請教你那個厲害的助理那增加了3萬資金來源在哪裡"},{"start":3586.525,"end":3590.106,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議"},{"start":3611.312,"end":3632.8,"text":"原來的法律是有這樣的規定?對,原來的法律,立法後也是原來的法律,但是這些人是不是有必要的,必要要補償他們,是不是必要?如果隨著...不管3萬還是6萬,你再跟我講必要的還是不必要的?必要要看程度對,必要的,你說必要的是...必要要看程度"},{"start":3633.24,"end":3655.128,"text":"看程度是……看程度就是所有的立法通過都是經過所有的立委來去討論還研議很多時間在立法通過但是呢必要的我們要去給他們預算的是不是必要的"},{"start":3656.676,"end":3683.384,"text":"還沒有執行嘛預算就像說你要給的就是現在3兆多你要給的是誰就是我們的電視台還有媒體還有就是打仗還有其他等等你預算的預算的算不算土利廠商你還沒有必要給的你預算的算不算土利"},{"start":3685.902,"end":3697.99,"text":"立法院在審查預算的時候,有實質的審查。是,所以審查預算是預算,預算還沒有說執行,你就覺得這個預算要給他們。但是呢,預算是圖利廠商,那這樣想起來,那都要經過合理的法定的招標程序再來啊,不是隨便給的啊。"},{"start":3711.059,"end":3714.22,"text":"從來沒有人說進法補償是不必要或違憲的。我說的是程序上。"},{"start":3737.433,"end":3756.072,"text":"這樣來說是違背憲法的程序我從來沒有說禁法補償是違憲的因為在協商之前我們同意4萬草野協商沒有同意沒有任何人簽同意從哪一個"},{"start":3772.897,"end":3775.78,"text":"接下來請登記第17號鐘嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":3803.733,"end":3822.717,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府總預算案官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士先生有請卓院長以及財政部莊部長和農業部的陳部長然後請經濟部的郭部長以及教育部的鄭部長請準備第二輪我們請卓院長、相關部會首長備詢總委員好院長好兩位部長好院長"},{"start":3833.936,"end":3861.861,"text":"昨晚10點你回官邸休息了嗎?幾點?10點10點我在家裡在家裡你知道旁邊的莊部長幾點才能回到家嗎?我知道那個時候還在立法院審財政收支劃分法你知道當我們財政收支劃分法在裁會審查的時候召委國民黨的陳玉珍委員他晚餐跑去喜來登吃大餐把所有的行政官員晾在那裡不知如何你知道嗎?"},{"start":3863.087,"end":3884.751,"text":"我不是很清楚你知道後來官員離席之後神隱很久的陳昭偉又跑出到議場來跑到委員會又要把官員召回來莊部長有沒有這樣子有沒有這樣被找回來包括本席我們折騰到超過12點還在委員會回到宿舍已經快1點"},{"start":3886.001,"end":3908.464,"text":"部長、院長,你覺得財政收支發分法在野黨要求增加的從多4千億到6千億不等撥給地方,那當中央少了這4到6千億,你覺得我們是要拿什麼錢去給地方?是給國建國造陳將軍最關心的國建國造的錢嗎?還是要什麼錢犧牲掉把這個錢撥給地方?部長你覺得勒?莊部長"},{"start":3909.954,"end":3937.791,"text":"跟委員報告,其實我們在那個中央統籌分配稅款跟一般性補助款跟計畫性補助款這幾年是一直成長已經到114年已經超過一兆所以我們把錢如果撥給地方我們中央少的錢來支付什麼?支付國防預算?如果說依照信行那個災難的版本最高有到7000多億7000多億好7000多億先停下來院長,如果中央少了7000多億什麼錢既然撥給地方了什麼費用我們也交給地方付"},{"start":3938.231,"end":3952.527,"text":"是把老農津貼的預算支出交給地方來付?還是把中央對地方勞健保的補助款交給地方付?你覺得這樣可行嗎?我撥千億給你地方,那原來我幫你付的錢,老農津貼也好,勞健保補貼也好,我都交給你地方來支付,可以嗎?"},{"start":3953.459,"end":3954.359,"text":"所以院長我們要請行政院團隊跟全國人民說清楚"},{"start":3979.006,"end":4006.961,"text":"這些錢都是人民的,你要交給中央來執行,可以。你要多撥7千億給地方執行,可以。但是呢,就像過去精神之後啊,預算隨緣而一撥一樣。撥給你多少緣額,也多少預算給你。撥給你多少預算,多少支出也由你來付。這樣的說明,人民才理解,到底這7千億不是憑空掉下來的,是從他們原來向中央請領的老農津貼,向中央請領的勞健保的補助,現在向地方政府要。可以這樣去說明嗎?"},{"start":4008.544,"end":4024.073,"text":"我們說明的裡面的重點有列出這一項,剛剛部長講過,不是一個地方的,超過一兆零一百五十億,裡面就包含這些。好,謝謝,莊部長請回。好,議長、部長,我現在要來問的,就是慣白見識,來,跟用電波調顧農民,風災榮順,好下中間,緊處理,請我們的政部長,跟我們貴部長也請來準備,先請教議長跟部長,議長,是不是所有的農民都是中農?"},{"start":4037.339,"end":4041.447,"text":"不是啦齁,意思是說,農民裡面是正中的那些,還是不是正中的那些?不是啦"},{"start":4045.751,"end":4046.912,"text":"市長市長市長市長市長市長市長市長"},{"start":4070.265,"end":4072.367,"text":"議員,你認為多少正中外中農可以交公牛?"},{"start":4100.928,"end":4115.131,"text":"複合主計 複合主計 一直跟你講啦 差不多三成啦 三分之一啦 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成 三成"},{"start":4127.279,"end":4155.815,"text":"你知不知道,部長跟議長說婚姻婚姻跟總裁啦,我們來看婚姻跟總裁比,他是專顧高工業超過一成半但是總裁,不管他的政策的面積,還是他的善良的比例,他都比婚姻多,給1%、2%但是婚姻、收工的比例超過總裁第二名的10%所以你要知道,工業、收工在炒的,一定人啦,接受人啦,部長、議長,議長你有同意嗎?"},{"start":4158.232,"end":4178.72,"text":"我跟委員報告,就是說公牛的部分因為無綱的關係,它的生產的面積不一樣。所以說婚姻館的職位都要求公牛收工啦!國民黨全都陪這個婚姻館的在算啦!我們看一看喔!公牛收工,如果我們介紹六十塊的,會發生什麼問題?我告訴你,馬英九的時代,公牛收工介紹,介3個、介2個加起來,從233個調到28個。"},{"start":4185.087,"end":4188.99,"text":"這供需上會產生問題,它會可能跑到工糧收購,讓我們長期推動這些品牌。"},{"start":4208.909,"end":4211.591,"text":"當然不願意看到...這種事情對國民真的有幫助嗎?"},{"start":4238.527,"end":4252.875,"text":"沒幫助嘛,所以我們來看,為了這次的公營收工,我們政府付出這麼大的代價多少?補償是不是146億?現在國民黨的組長是不是要開146億?都總含本來的公營收購大概176億左右。好,因為請補償,即時補償去查。過去到現在,現在未來,公營收工有特定的教授在哪裏好處嗎?去請知好不好?"},{"start":4264.807,"end":4292.704,"text":"而且每年會增加九十億...要清雜啦!有人在公寓收工這一點好處嗎?這樣好不好?好!來!來!我們繼續看齁!但是農民的...你知道嗎?農民需要農水路的息息啊!我們的農水路灌白呢!每年都在成長!每年都在成長要經營5億!農水路改善、農田水利息息改善、配水的施設方面,農民的生產就要開花!你們有同意嗎?是!"},{"start":4293.766,"end":4305.053,"text":"所以你要看,我們的總預算,總預算全國有37萬公頃,這是有冠牌的,全國有57萬的農田,有六成市,是有農田水利息息的服務,對不對?沒錯,平常平均不到六成,比全國平均多少?"},{"start":4315.97,"end":4343.593,"text":"差不多五時三、五時四左右,比全國平均那幾天議長,現在這次都要補充,都要涉事的慣白,便當加強好不好?讓我們能夠達到全國的平均好不好?補充,農業部有需要的縣市要加強。針對有需要的這些縣市,我們會加強水路的一個設施。好,現在議長駁斥這個環節,便當不是什麼,便當是中央照顧受救,我們的所有的涉事都比全國平均那麼弱,來我繼續看齁。"},{"start":4345.185,"end":4353.227,"text":"第6屆議員、農民的鄉愁者、農民鄉愁的經濟部、經濟部長、教育部長也來啦。我們的總副省、董事長、不是說電子,大家說喔,在野黨的團隊去電子。但是電子如果我們去過,農業、農民統計站、我們的吃蝦、用石火在營的電、水車在泊的電,都是經濟部補助農民。農業部長你說是不是?"},{"start":4370.951,"end":4389.421,"text":"昨晚一開始是農業部自己編列預算,然後之前就是由台電來補貼。現在中府省為了要接受人們鄉下的供牛收工制度,才要把我們的中府省給凍掉。結果我們每年度農民、農業、營田的補貼發不出去,因為你有沒有希望這個事情發生?"},{"start":4394.97,"end":4409.041,"text":"當然要照顧農民所以每一個農民都享受到農業用電的補貼為了接受人,沒辦法享受到我們來看,繼續看喔來,我們的農民用電,差不多24億我們的土地農水農,46億加起來呢,189億農電水利息是,來,補充,這個三峰台農村差不多多少錢?"},{"start":4421.107,"end":4434.092,"text":"那個楷米颱風最後的結算大概是44億然後山陀爾是6億這個是速報速報就差不多三十八億了對不對所以你看這三十八億加上農水路加上用電步走加起來都不用一百四十六億"},{"start":4441.704,"end":4454.281,"text":"反對來說,這個公牛手槓就花一百四十六億,可以用來提升全國農民享受農水路的補助息息,可以讓全國農民享受到用電的補償,可以讓這個豐台受損的農民去做補助,因為你們要加強來做這些的東西嗎?"},{"start":4461.014,"end":4473.547,"text":"當然,剛才委員所說的農民需要用電的步驟,這應該是全部農民都可以感受到需要到的。所以我希望說,我們政府把我們的稅金用在這個關鍵的地方好不好?是。好,來,我們繼續看。來,不然這樣而已,風太大有什麼好處?來,請請保證起來,抱歉,不然給過保證說好了。這個風的地方有嚴重嗎?"},{"start":4484.862,"end":4485.343,"text":"下一張你有去看過嗎?"},{"start":4497.813,"end":4519.717,"text":"有你有去看過這個土盤,叫H缸要弄一缸到大缸才有泡沫弄到對不對?H缸要整個穿過那個廚房,那個鋼筋水泥的圍牆我拜託你,公牛收工一百四十六億啦,用在大營店補貼、用在大農水、農牌水、用在農民的農水培訓!我們起來給我們的學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生"},{"start":4523.598,"end":4545.333,"text":"教育設施的受損是一定要趕快優先把它辦好,否則師生的安全堪慮,所以這個教育部會很積極地做好這件工作。好,請你把我們中央的學生不要讓教授去鄉修,要照顧全民好不好?照顧農民,照顧學生,好不好?當然,還要照顧民眾來,最後一項,這個已經過半天都要看你起來了,講到主來嘴。來,補充,全台灣啊,"},{"start":4552.54,"end":4580.236,"text":"全台灣吃煮來水的齁,同桌人吃煮來水,同桌人沒煮來水,糖果才會有關係?接水、接貢,接到就沒損失啦。接貢的破紀律啦,是不是屏東同酒?屏東同酒嘛。現在我們屏東齁,七八公兩年的五十點八三%提升到這個七八十三年的落尾,已經來到七十一點五三%"},{"start":4581.496,"end":4595.888,"text":"因為你們才聽得清楚,全國主來水的破紀律超過九成,屏東到近年才不用講到七成,都差兩成,你知道嗎?要看多年屏東關的官民才享受到全國平均可以用主來水吃到主來水。"},{"start":4599.892,"end":4619.583,"text":"你不知道我告訴你啦,要90億啦,上一張,要90億啦,上一張,要90億,變坤坪來搞年,每年要變10億,後來在中央有一個無自來水地區的風水改善計畫第5期變75億,一年要用10億的預算,啊你都要搞年,因為中,民眾人會擔心久不久,你有要加薪嗎?不對,你有辦法加薪給民眾人,他知道可以吃就煮來水嗎?"},{"start":4626.828,"end":4647.46,"text":"跟這個委員報告,我們現在在專令來刊辦這個演講的這個作業,啊這個人工喔比較難聽啦。好,不管人工好聽好聽,我們有時候編下去,其他的部分我們提供來努力好不好?我們來努力啦齁?好啊。一定。"},{"start":4648.579,"end":4669.128,"text":"剛才說的公牛收工146億,可以開啟對所有農村農民的照顧,可以開啟對全部農藥用電補貼農民的照顧,可以開啟對灌排息息全部農民的照顧,還可以補助豪風。還有一項,針對屏東,你能讓屏東的主來水一年多一年多5億,我們可以提早3年,破紀律,對到全國的標準,拜託議長可以支持嗎?"},{"start":4678.357,"end":4701.899,"text":"當然支持委員剛剛的建議最後我希望說今天我在這就要引用拜託我們在國會典禮當中,民意代表都要為民來請署但是請行政院要注意,我們這次開下去是多少人受邀不要說114年度的開下去是報分婚姻官、特定的農會、特定人士的地域"},{"start":4702.779,"end":4731.47,"text":"我們希望這114年度開下去,用電的農民在補助,灌白適時的農民在補助,我們的農村在救助,我們的荷文站得快,還有屏東縣的阻礙罪,可以紮一粒達到全國平均的高層,每年改變有什麼屏東縣做阻礙罪,你說好不好?好的,委員剛剛所說的,如果當中有不法的情形我們查出來,但是我也希望農業部在明年能夠針對一級二短三期"},{"start":4742.219,"end":4744.18,"text":"主席有請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":4771.264,"end":4793.132,"text":"國務委員好院長好我剛聽到宗家兵委員是針對昨天才劃法來向你告狀不過我倒是有另外一個角度來溫馨提醒一下我們院長你今天有沒有打電話給吳思堯委員打電話對今天沒有沒有你應該待會趕快打電話給他慰問他一下他受傷了你知道嗎"},{"start":4806.338,"end":4822.766,"text":"是因為吳秉瑞把主席台的麥克風整個拆起來往旁邊一砸就砸中了吳世耀的手他那個痛苦的表情現在在畫面上都看得讓人家很心疼所以第一個我還是提醒院長"},{"start":4824.212,"end":4847.938,"text":"意識上怎麼樣是一回事,但是吳士堯委員受傷齁,這件事情我覺得你要打電話慰問他一下。但你還要慰問一樣東西,你知道慰問什麼東西嗎?慰問一下麥克風。麥克風很可憐欸,吳士堯是被打傷,麥克風是被砸爛啦,整個摔起來砸在地上稀巴爛,那個順便彈起來打到意識,意識還要閃欸。"},{"start":4851.101,"end":4853.902,"text":"臺灣今年董事長有前雲林縣農業處長呂政章接任,這個人事是您決定的嗎?當然我們在經過一段時間多方的徵詢考量"},{"start":4878.643,"end":4879.203,"text":"請問台灣今年負責的業務是什麼?"},{"start":4903.151,"end":4919.921,"text":"他對一些不良債務的處理以及一些資產的管理、使用、收益等等。沒錯嘛,很重要的單位嘛,對不對?那我想請問一下,被您決定安排接任台灣今年董事長的呂政章,有任何金融經驗嗎?"},{"start":4921.598,"end":4923.339,"text":"比起八大工庫、工股行戶跟工股金庫,台灣今年看似單位的規模沒那麼大。"},{"start":4939.648,"end":4963.653,"text":"可是你知道,出任董事長都很有來頭的,你知道吧?我唸給你聽,除了施俊吉擔任副院長,有擔任財政部次長的王榮周,財政部前部長的林正國,呂政章沒有在基隆銀行界上過一天班。我想請教,專業用人是我們賴慶德總統的一個用人的哲學,是不是?"},{"start":4964.725,"end":4989.448,"text":"我們一直在這個方面是比較慎重的。結果您決定用了一個連一天金融業的經驗都沒有的呂政章。你對不起賴清德專業用人的這個理念了。第二個,院長,我跟你講第二個更嚴重。呂政章不但沒有金融背景,家族還涉及弊案、遭通器,這個你總知道吧?我們在"},{"start":4990.441,"end":5017.626,"text":"任用之前確實了解這個狀況也徵詢過相關的問題認為說家族的事業家族成員的事業也不會在他未來的工作上給予任何的方便因為這個是司法調查的過程當然啦你要跟我講現代的法制沒有家族連坐我也認同可是我要說啊天下專業人才千千萬"},{"start":5019.261,"end":5044.693,"text":"那你用這個人齁基本上沒有金融專業背景你也說不是個所以啦你只說這個台灣金融好像意思是還可以啦那第二個更重要的是這麼多沒有家族牽扯的專業人才可以用那你都事前知道家族有人設幣、招通器你可不可以顧慮一下我們賴清總賴清總總有另外一個用人的招牌叫清廉你總知道吧"},{"start":5046.235,"end":5073.852,"text":"結果你們行政院這樣子用人,你對得起賴清德總統嗎?我們當然有跟,透過我們本人的了解,說家族成員的關係我還以為你說你剛才有透過,透過跟賴清德總統溝通還是喔,今天說實在話,施俊吉就講了啦現任施俊吉的董事長齁,他很不高興吧他說什麼?他說其實不是你決定的"},{"start":5079.124,"end":5103.728,"text":"他要嘛就是誤會那就是你今天沒有追尋賴清德總統專業用人青年用才的這樣的一個執政的用人理念要嘛就是今天所有報紙所有媒體所有外界在檢視呂政章最大最輝煌的經驗就是跟賴清德總統關係很好啊"},{"start":5104.861,"end":5124.492,"text":"沒有別的耶 這個也是蠻慘的捏說實在我從過去在行政院或是我們在整個黨務或是選舉過程當中我並沒有發現或是我並沒有遇到或感覺的呂政章董事長跟總統有什麼特別的關係我自己是沒有感覺"},{"start":5125.077,"end":5144.239,"text":"對阿你又不是總統肚子裡的蛔蟲所以我不會用這個方式或這個角度來衡量一下好啦沒關係啦我告訴你喔我真的只是提醒啦謝謝我們現在有外界的質疑也很在意的外界的質疑我們有嚴重的事情喔請財政部多多的監督不能有任何的不法跟特權好啦好啦就後面監督啦"},{"start":5145.509,"end":5174.259,"text":"更嚴重的事情施俊吉董事長去職齁他說合理懷疑他的去職是擋人財路你跟施總製長溝通過嗎?不必懷疑啦 這個沒有這樣的考慮不必懷疑喔 擔心國家資產被賤賣絕對不可能 我們對國家資產的處分有非常嚴謹的程序希望之後不要羅織施俊吉的罪名沒有 我們對於施前董事長在任內的勞苦功高我們是永遠記住的"},{"start":5176.92,"end":5186.121,"text":"話當然一定要講得漂亮是做人基本的禮貌對不對可是我告訴你施俊傑是民進黨的前副葛魁"},{"start":5187.58,"end":5189.181,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":5211.708,"end":5239.286,"text":"還是他今天照你的邏輯他懷疑不可以還是他今天自己心虛你的意思是這樣嗎沒有心虛的問題他不必要做這種懷疑對我告訴你今天施俊吉他到底有沒有會被羅致罪名會被清算追殺當事人心中最清楚不是你今天你不是當事人你不知道他今天眼前看到所有的景象對任何人如果有不法當然會有調查但是我們現在是沒有當然這第一個喔我第二個跟你講"},{"start":5240.632,"end":5267.334,"text":"施俊吉這個不平之名啊也不是完全沒有道理今天如果你找一個人過來你比我施俊吉的專業強你比我施俊吉的專業夠比我施俊吉的經驗足我施俊吉被你換了我也沒話說今天是嗎你今天把李政章取代施俊吉將心比心你是施俊吉你能服嗎"},{"start":5268.561,"end":5287.495,"text":"我覺得政務人員跟國營事業單位的負責人我們都是在全盤人事考量底下做一種新的考量所以用新的創意年輕的創意來也是一個考量之一創意啊 好棒喔 我也好有創意喔"},{"start":5288.095,"end":5307.76,"text":"所以你當委員啊?不是,我要講的一件事情就是,你不能憑感覺嘛!憑著感覺走!你今天實際上社會公益,我要講,你今天弄到一個前行政團隊,行政院副院長很高位了捏,很尊榮了捏。"},{"start":5308.8,"end":5335.915,"text":"他都擔心被羅致罪名,你叫平常深斗小民能不擔心嗎?我對他沒有任何的懷疑,我個人對他沒有任何懷疑。你沒有任何懷疑,他懷疑啊!我說我他懷疑是不合理,不必要的。我回頭要講,我今天真的不客氣說啦,我認為施俊傑講重一點,只是當然是你齁,你是互阻心切啦。他說這人是不是你決定的,所以他不怪你。對不起我沒聽清楚。施俊傑說這人是不是你決定的,他不會怪你啦。"},{"start":5337.216,"end":5338.297,"text":"用人為親,不顧專業,還沒上任,就是"},{"start":5351.865,"end":5380.471,"text":"爭議造底你這個人是不是受你這16個字你像今天施俊吉最關切的是什麼他說台灣今年史上最大的資產飆售案蘇志芬召集地方抗爭導致產業退堂使得招標流標然後到最後在投標的時候開價就只剩下13億與底價相差甚遠所以呢各方勢力基於這塊土地已久"},{"start":5381.991,"end":5401.581,"text":"希望無人投票後降價就是可能遭受最大的資產賤賣我告訴你施俊錡這一段話坑然有力喔但是委員我們都聽到蘇知芬委員也有對這件事情的回應跟說法我們應該同時重視但是我跟你講院長起碼拜託法務部嘛了解一下吧"},{"start":5407.363,"end":5407.543,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":5437.763,"end":5463.4,"text":"主委員長,我上次有質詢您,說2008年的時候,擔任立委的賴清德曾經提案要退回行政院總預算。當時民進黨少數黨,所以提案沒有通過。那我想請教您,2008年賴清德當時退回總預算是胡錦濤主席下達命令來杯葛總預算的嗎?"},{"start":5464.804,"end":5465.645,"text":"我從來沒有這樣說非常好我肯定院長"},{"start":5489.206,"end":5509.046,"text":"我告訴你,你這段話齁,最該聽的,當然吳思堯受傷齁,我是覺得要慰問他啦。但你這段話最該聽的也是吳思堯。吳思堯最近真的像瘋狂小紅帽你知道嗎?小紅帽上升到那種程度齁,非常驚人。重點是小紅帽一般是配大灰狼啦,那沒有他就配大黑熊啦。"},{"start":5510.243,"end":5539.001,"text":"我們的黑熊學院的那個沈伯陽跟我們的小紅帽吳思瑤齁什麼事都要扣紅帽你剛剛還要慰問他你現在又在沒有沒有我跟你講兩回事就像說財政部要監管台灣金聯法務部一樣要去做所謂的犯罪偵查吳思瑤該被慰問是因為在立法院被吳秉瑞打傷這要慰問啊人之常情啊我也感到我也感到 朝野協商很辛苦的大家在協商齁要心平氣和但是我要跟你講"},{"start":5539.941,"end":5541.501,"text":"當然那個是憲法賦予憲政機關的法定的權責之一"},{"start":5565.851,"end":5574.069,"text":"你決定釋憲了嗎?目前我認為我們應該有好的方式,可以透過這種協商溝通。其實我沒講,院長我還真不反對你去釋憲。"},{"start":5575.185,"end":5603.912,"text":"真的嗎?因為第一個,大法官那麼聽話,視線多好上次我們視線你也罵很多阿阿?什麼?對於職權刑事法視線你也很多意見阿我很多意見是因為大法官今天的表現太蹭你們的職我都有意見阿大法官今天完全照著民進黨的感覺走,超強的你趕快去視線,他一定會護你們的真的,我建議你,我是你就視線但因為我不是你我就瞧不起大法官,就是這樣子那第二個我要講喔"},{"start":5605.233,"end":5632.31,"text":"立法院的法律有沒有違憲當然你有你的見解嘛 對不對你認為按照預算案的話不能增加預算嘛 對不對可是我認為是按照法律案啊那你說預算法裡面法律案也要徵詢行政院啊但是我認為武力華質詢行政院院長陳建仁的時候陳建仁就直接講說該修法就修法啊這算不算徵詢但修法的內容跟彌補資金之來源武力華質詢陳建仁算不算徵詢啊"},{"start":5633.854,"end":5636.295,"text":"如果算,但是修法的內容要徵詢啊。徵詢就是詢問意見。一個徵詢,一個是指出彌補資金之來源。我做個結論,為什麼認為你視線好?"},{"start":5662.298,"end":5665.159,"text":"謝謝羅志強委員質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第19號王定宇委員質詢"},{"start":5707.097,"end":5711.88,"text":"委員長,謝謝。麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。對,一定要辛苦。進步緩慢。"},{"start":5726.496,"end":5754.169,"text":"我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審"},{"start":5755.427,"end":5769.737,"text":"所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是"},{"start":5770.933,"end":5795.388,"text":"假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業"},{"start":5797.113,"end":5818.07,"text":"比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長"},{"start":5819.397,"end":5848.128,"text":"比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦"},{"start":5849.698,"end":5851.55,"text":"這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在"},{"start":5853.806,"end":5878.063,"text":"軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中中央政府本身122億要補助給地方90億但重要的是地方90億要補助給地方90億那還現在地方議會現在在省財無所謂地方自己要編的是50億那這個沒有過他們不曉得怎麼樣編這個來源才法源就沒有了我今天就要請問因為我們主計長我們老朋友了我從議員就認識你我現在就要問這個問題啊"},{"start":5880.865,"end":5906.486,"text":"因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這個另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身"},{"start":5907.472,"end":5924.609,"text":"你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎"},{"start":5929.258,"end":5943.109,"text":"有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。"},{"start":5944.91,"end":5966.165,"text":"你們有沒有預制作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預制作業"},{"start":5967.874,"end":5989.29,"text":"現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查"},{"start":5990.285,"end":5990.865,"text":"來不來得及過年前給人家"},{"start":6018.822,"end":6019.162,"text":"我這樣詮釋對不對?"},{"start":6043.311,"end":6047.819,"text":"我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以稍早過,我們就好有機會,幾年前就發了所謂...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦"},{"start":6056.732,"end":6061.617,"text":"因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。"},{"start":6080.239,"end":6104.005,"text":"所以,我是在說,有選有意見,我們做立委,要選擇、要動機、要選選,都是立委的權但是不要選擇放在那裡,這比刪除還慘我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防,國防目前新增的項目公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了"},{"start":6106.579,"end":6135.037,"text":"新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好"},{"start":6136.049,"end":6137.23,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":6156.445,"end":6157.706,"text":"中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區"},{"start":6174.458,"end":6201.012,"text":"還有我們飛機的防護堡,我知道下面很多啦,我有略...昨天網路的環島的第二路有,還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是,總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。"},{"start":6202.697,"end":6223.284,"text":"還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?"},{"start":6224.969,"end":6251.825,"text":"沒過當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億"},{"start":6253.783,"end":6274.397,"text":"你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前見後續見其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嘛這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願"},{"start":6275.578,"end":6299.543,"text":"因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型艦的這個水壓測試通過嘛那我們就可以開始支用這些相關的這個錢嘛其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大可能是一個態度因為我也贊成SAT水測航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算這個我個人支持"},{"start":6300.123,"end":6325.302,"text":"但是我們國家展現的態度說來我這邊有點像deposit money就有點像預定金我這20億過表示我們國家會做這個決心因為佔整個的比例很低但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向"},{"start":6327.549,"end":6348.38,"text":"蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛"},{"start":6351.962,"end":6361.03,"text":"新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?"},{"start":6367.518,"end":6368.7,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":6386.616,"end":6412.418,"text":"他要預作製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業"},{"start":6414.125,"end":6428.145,"text":"如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些"},{"start":6428.806,"end":6429.287,"text":"我坦白講"},{"start":6449.944,"end":6464.046,"text":"PTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省"},{"start":6465.506,"end":6481.953,"text":"你如果是駐兵議委,你會怎麼看待這樣的事情?我國防先到這邊,部長請問,另外這個提問要請教院長,因為這是很重要的項目,有關我們成大沙崙這個園區,我們現在除了成大在那邊有一個沙崙醫院,"},{"start":6483.804,"end":6506.835,"text":"的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源"},{"start":6507.475,"end":6524.651,"text":"一個是成大醫院沙崙園區加上大健康園區那個產業園區還有一個就是這個生活資源園區第一個沙崙醫院已經講了很久但我知道行政作業上他還要經過國發會同意同意完了還有細部計畫等等"},{"start":6526.497,"end":6544.399,"text":"國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,"},{"start":6545.873,"end":6570.003,"text":"陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題因為我們是主動整合各單位的意見"},{"start":6570.563,"end":6593.272,"text":"回到AI園區就是因為AI園區牽涉到我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組"},{"start":6594.605,"end":6595.706,"text":"我們類似這樣的案子"},{"start":6620.263,"end":6643.234,"text":"國發會、國科會甚至包括經濟部我們都有定期的在討論類似的問題。謝謝王定宇委員的質詢。謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢。"},{"start":6646.21,"end":6648.717,"text":"現在我們休息10分鐘,休息之後繼續進行質詢。"},{"start":7270.936,"end":7287.589,"text":"拜會,現在我們繼續開會。接下來請牛許廷委員質詢。謝謝主席,左院長有請。麻煩再請左院長備詢。"},{"start":7297.489,"end":7324.309,"text":"委員好院長辛苦了這個很高興稍微雖然朝野氛圍不睦但好歹在禁法補償這件事情上面看到了有一點點轉圜的契機但無論如何無論如何今天下午到底會不會復會不曉得但是我想透過這個預算答詢的過程大家把話講清楚還是非常非常有必要的所以今天本期打算用這15分鐘就好好從法理情三個角度我們來討論一下這個禁法補償的這個正當性"},{"start":7325.49,"end":7350.753,"text":"那我們就話不多說我們直接進入主題第一個我們從法的層面來討論這個其實我聽很多委員的質詢包含這個卓院長在媒體前面的答覆等等這個卓院長都有屢次的提及所謂的憲法第70條預算法第91條及財政紀律法第5條對不對但我就想請問一下院長這幾個法律裡面有哪一條是硬性規定這個行政院必須要同意我們才能這樣修法"},{"start":7351.093,"end":7377.871,"text":"當然字眼上沒有他說是要徵詢但是另外一個程序問題就是必須要指出彌補資金之來源就增加的稅數多少錢大家要一個來源來我現在就再請問卓魁本期在內政委員會其實我們在上個會期業績不錯通過很多法案比如說民意代表知己條例上個會期其實也順利的修正通過請問院長在這個條例裡面我們有沒有特別去指明新增的裁員在哪裡"},{"start":7378.78,"end":7380.487,"text":"如果行政院院長同意"},{"start":7382.261,"end":7382.741,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":7413.422,"end":7430.169,"text":"政策的所有事情的執行一定是涉財源嘛對不對但是不是每一件事情他都一定要用修法表明的方式所以我想院長你在這個地方去主張就是說你一定要續名財源的時候其實反而在實務上的見解來講他其實是不適用的難道不是這樣嗎"},{"start":7431.104,"end":7454.887,"text":"我們處理的方式如果像剛剛委員所提的那幾個案子我們會把它放在我們的施政報告裡面或者放在我們的預算報告裡面那這個就表示它已經經過行政院了解整個預算的執行內容程序預算把它形成一個政策可以執行那就有資金的來源那如果沒有在原來的報告範圍當中突然跑出來一塊那就是在"},{"start":7455.347,"end":7455.927,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":7475.092,"end":7496.719,"text":"可是我也要跟院長直接條明的講法案審查的時候不見得每一件事情都一定會有共識那不然我們在立法院是不是要表決器幹嘛呢對不對所以沒有共識的時候那當然就要透過正常的程序來表決那我要請問院長在這個修法的整個過程中從委員會的審查進到黨團協商最後交付這個大院表決有沒有哪一件事情違反了議事的程序應該沒有對不對"},{"start":7498.908,"end":7527.081,"text":"如果經過很嚴謹的程序,那就是法律,我們就必須遵守。對,所以我們今天從舊法論法的角度來講,通過的是叫進法補償條例。即便憲法有講立法院不得為預算案增加之支出,這本席同意,但進法補償條例是法律案,也不是預算案,對不對?本席要花這麼多時間把它講清楚,不只是因為要幫我們的原住民弟兄討公道,也是因為本席是這個法案的共同提案人。我們希望立法院三讀通過的法律被尊重,這個我希望"},{"start":7528.101,"end":7556.391,"text":"這個卓院長必須要了解立法院的立場如果我們在這個法條上有所讓步或者是不堅持的話變成形成一定要你行政院同意的慣例那其實對於立法院是一種矮化對於台灣的憲政發展來講也不是一件正面的事情啦我是希望能夠互相的尊重把一個法案討論到最成熟因為這個牽涉到預算錢從哪裡來是很重要的等一下我們在理的部分會討論一下預算的一些來源跟實務上的一些操作這個"},{"start":7558.905,"end":7564.695,"text":"再退萬不言我們今天就把話一次破到底真的行政院沒有同意嗎來我們看一下影片"},{"start":7565.626,"end":7594.383,"text":"雖然有點快啊主計長您會支持嗎?您覺得很多嗎?我想第一個如果這個要修法我們當然要來修法不過我首先要謝謝委員反映了這個族人的心誠這對我們來說是相當的重要那第二個呢如果這個經費的部分的話我請主計長哪一個政策委員應該經費到如果是服務法令大家自認的話編載預算裡面我們當然就會考慮我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以經費的預算來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成?這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理那所以如果這個條例談到今天8月3日通過我們未來能能的所需要的部分就該有40個條例那到時候我請委員來支持那反正相關的事"},{"start":7596.167,"end":7617.351,"text":"委員長雖然速度有點快沒關係我幫你整理好這個時序3月1號吳立華委員的總諮詢就會講說金額要明定在法律透過法律的研議來辦理而這行政院長當初的陳建仁院長是同意的這個主計長陳建仁、朱哲銘前主計長也講說經費符合法令任農編債預算我們就來照章執行3月5號高進數美委員總諮詢一樣是行政院長陳建仁"},{"start":7617.731,"end":7639.444,"text":"打詢說修法通過,我們就照修法的結果來做處理。在512號黨團協商的過程中,高金素美委員召集原民會副主委古仲講說,倘若這個條文經過大院的三讀通過,我們就要依法來編列,希望立法院支持相關預算。其實在審查的過程中,行政方難道沒有同意嗎?院長"},{"start":7641.119,"end":7653.616,"text":"剛剛委員那段影片雖然很快我也聽得出來大家聽得出來文字上聲明也有講了很多次的如果、大概、倘若就是他設定了很多的條件如果通過、如果合法、如果怎麼樣所以這個必須要"},{"start":7656.065,"end":7675.139,"text":"滿足這個程序阿剛剛大部分的條件都是如果法律通過阿法律通過了沒我們剛剛講了嘛經過了嚴謹的程序三讀通過那當然就應該要執行救法論法你如果講說哪一條法律明定你要同意然後我們硬要衝突那當然就是一個我們站不住腳可是今天法沒有明定你一定要同意我們有沒有徵詢有沒有討論其實都有嘛"},{"start":7677.1,"end":7705.435,"text":"前朝同意難道現在換了新人就不買單嗎?這樣恐怕有失風範所以從法律的角度我想這是一個與法有據的事情也沒什麼好爭議的我們今天就把話講清楚行政院在本案其實早就同意而且其實院長你也常常講政策其實都是有延續性的喜歡或不喜歡多少要有點承擔如果說這個事情有雙標恐怕是不太好的事情從法律的角度我們要提醒卓院長"},{"start":7706.115,"end":7709.536,"text":"二、從理的角度論述禁法補償的道理預算重編及修正過去案例預算連續阻擋好像是在野黨的責任一樣當然民意調查不這麼認為"},{"start":7721.601,"end":7748.555,"text":"是因為現在時代很發達大家都可以把話講得非常清楚因為我們遵循憲法這個70條不得為預算之增加我不能等到原民會把預算送進來的時候我再講說哎呀這20億不夠我把它改成40億那就違憲了所以我們唯一能夠要求行政院依法編列的武器只好在程序委員會或者是在大院的時候先行阻擋的用意是希望你可以提出具體可行的修正方案"},{"start":7749.255,"end":7776.821,"text":"所以我想這件事情其實講得非常清楚那有沒有相關的案例呢?其實是有的啊比如說民國93年中央政府的新十大建設特別預算他就試設了一些資源的重新分配所以處理方式撤回並且提出新的相關預算案94年這個審理95年中央政府總預算的時候因為老農津貼的增加所以提出了相關的修正97年同樣擴大內需的公共建設的特別預算案也一樣都有試設預算內容跟科目的調整"},{"start":7777.481,"end":7792.638,"text":"所以一樣是提出修正到101年的中央政府總預算老農今天再次提高一樣用修正案的方式來處理所以說我們之所以沒有辦法讓他那麼早復違是因為在等待行政院提出一個務實的修正方案"},{"start":7793.479,"end":7815.466,"text":"既然法有明文,前朝也承諾,那這院長本來就要有所承擔,必須要提出編列的項目。好,我知道,院長你可能要講啊,這個是財源啊,可能很短促,或者是壓力很大,這本來就不會不能理解,但是喔,認真說起來,如果我們從這幾年預算,光看中央政府預算的執行角度,其實不會沒有財源,為什麼呢?112年的決算啊,這個稅計剩餘是5億8千萬,中間還有保留了10億啊,"},{"start":7822.769,"end":7836.808,"text":"加起來其實就15億啊就你沒有執行完的預算在你中央政府這一大包幾千億的預算裡面沒有執行完的就十幾億啊特別這個前瞻計畫為什麼會跑出第5期不也是因為預算沒有執行完所以我用第5期的方式來做處理嗎"},{"start":7837.429,"end":7862.207,"text":"到了今年113年我們正在執行的預算到第三季也就是到9月的統計資料有17個部會還有超過15億以上的勝利原民會還有25.88億的勝利當然院長你會講這個還有一季嘛有一季完之後大家就會趕工就把它執行完畢但本期今天要提這個概念其實只是講這麼一大包的中央預算三兆多兩兆多三兆多的預算如果"},{"start":7863.468,"end":7882.483,"text":"稍作檢討可以節省案子節省一下對不對可以調整項目做一下調整20億相較於3兆2000億他其實是非常非常小的數字啊他甚至都不構成你前面講的這個預算稅數的大幅增加我們如果用中央政府總預算的角度來看所以不會有裁員的問題啊"},{"start":7883.524,"end":7910.977,"text":"只要政府願意花一點點心思稍微檢討一下各部會哪一些地方可以省一省是不是這個21的財源就跑出來了就透過預算的方式來做處理不就好了嗎委員說的對的一部分因為從數字算數問題來看確實可以如此但是如果從原則問題來看那斷不可這樣子做因為這樣子我們在提出的施政報告之外突然多出來的一個政策、一筆預算"},{"start":7912.438,"end":7941.559,"text":"如果這個形成一個可行的慣例將來行政院的施政報告那變成廢紙一張了你擔心形成慣例這個事情我們最後的時候花一點點時間來做討論但我現在目前講的是其實技術上或者是從金額的角度來出發我們純粹就預算的調度來講算數問題是可以解釋但是原則問題是不可以改變因為你的原則是政治問題我們最後的時間再來處理那既然其實你都談到了這個預算可行其實本質上其實它就是個分配問題"},{"start":7942.299,"end":7966.816,"text":"今天大家去談淨法補償大家積極的幫原住民爭取預算其實這是不分朝野的大家用意是什麼呢我們希望對原住民好一點嘛院長你有沒有了解一下說原民的這個總預算佔總預算的比例是多少明年度我們編了124億對不對那比例是多少那增加的比例是比整個預算增加的比例高喔真的嗎來數字在這裡齁這個"},{"start":7969.468,"end":7969.989,"text":"113年總預算2,800億元明會預算109億這個0.38%"},{"start":7976.069,"end":8000.091,"text":"再往前其實歷年來都差不了多少啦多的時候到百分之0.4不是4%是0.4%一%都不到半%都不到這就是我們政府對於原住民的資源投入啊我們賴清德總統曾經講我要當原住民的朋友我一直和原住民站在一起其實大家都希望幫原住民爭取更好的權益但是什麼樣叫更好的權益為什麼大家講說"},{"start":8001.112,"end":8014.42,"text":"不能夠不能夠把這樣子的一個這個預算編在基金裡面來執行其實就是因為基金本來他也就是要幫原住民做事的一個開支嘛如果你用挪移的方式改由基金來支出的話他其實實質上會造成原住民預算的排擠"},{"start":8015.475,"end":8035.78,"text":"既然今天不管是這個無黨籍的委員、國民黨的委員、民進黨的委員大家去談進法補償的時候都是希望在透過法令的修正之後政府能夠多撥一點預算改變分配的邏輯加大對於原住民朋友的政策挹注這個才是政策的本意嘛這個我想也是情有可原不是嗎院長"},{"start":8036.516,"end":8065.408,"text":"我會歡迎也支持我們在政策的討論上從政策來討論之後彼此共同找出一個裁員像剛剛委員所說的我們用基金有委員有意見我們用二倍金有意見我們用最佳預算也有意見所以這個資金的來源到現在如何解決我希望我們能夠再透過朝野的協商找出一個大家都接受那我們以後建立這樣一個憲法跟法律的規範原則底下這次找一個如何能夠解決接受的方案"},{"start":8066.709,"end":8087.226,"text":"這個我也幫院長稍微算了一下雖然我沒有寫在螢幕上面但是即便增加因為你今年編明年的預算的時候你的進法補償是由原住民的公務基金支出28億撥給基金從基金的部分支出嘛那至少收支是對列的之所以之前講說不能夠挪在基金裡面是因為他收支沒有辦法平衡啊久而久之基金就掏空了"},{"start":8087.346,"end":8104.404,"text":"好,現在由公務預算來支持基金,它現在是對列的狀態,但是你沒有編組嘛,現在就是個問題,叫28億,如果把28億調漲成就是按照6萬塊的政策邏輯去做編列的話,還會增加13億左右的開支,即便把這個原住民的預算再增加13億,這個比例也不過就是從0.391%變成0.43%"},{"start":8109.011,"end":8127.179,"text":"真的不是一筆大錢但是對於原住民朋友來講他其實是很溫暖真的委員我也說我不是在意幾億百分之零點多不是這個問題是這幾個憲法跟法律的條文我們必須把它履行完整的程序最後還有一分鐘的時間當然就談政治的問題很多人講說朝野僵局很難處理"},{"start":8127.759,"end":8154.5,"text":"但是我始終覺得行政端要負更多一點的責任為什麼這樣說呢?立法院狀況本來就很複雜各黨黨團有不同的意見立法權分拆在113個委員的手上可是行政權是相對集中的享有相對集中優勢的人難道不應該負起更多的責任嗎?這我想喔,院長當初上台的時候其實本行期待你是個通情達理的人嘛在以前政治人物的人設裡面你也是善於溝通不見得占第一線這樣的角色"},{"start":8155.233,"end":8169.492,"text":"那我常常想如果你可以用這樣子的一個心態好好來跟各個黨的原住民的立委做一下溝通跟說明也許這個朝野僵局不會持續這麼久啊但這個是你不能期待立法院自己來處理啊對不對院長應該有更主動一點的心態吧"},{"start":8170.853,"end":8197.754,"text":"你剛剛講我覺得蠻好至少我們聽到說追加預算可行那是不是有一個更清楚的方案比如說什麼時候要來具體的提出經過什麼樣的一個情況取得三黨的共識這個預算的僵局也許就解開了那請問院長有沒有具體的方案我們除了原民會的說明之外我一直尊重大院內部所以我們是透過朝野黨團在做溝通我們期待看到一個具體有效的解決方案這個會影響之後預算審查的節奏也好或者是期待也好這裡面都寫得出來了好不好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":8200.378,"end":8202.54,"text":"謝謝牛許廷委員的質詢。也謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來請登記第21號劉建國委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":8230.169,"end":8256.557,"text":"劉委員好院長好 院長辛苦不會院長知道您知道目前台灣的面臨到很多內外的隱憂嗎?很多的挑戰對 國家一直有這樣的外部內部的各種問題我們都極力的來解決你看這個颱風72年30來是大家你還是總統就要疲於奔命的要去看災這其實台灣面臨到這個狀況基本上"},{"start":8259.744,"end":8288.973,"text":"要很多的因應的措施啊。剛剛我聽那劉委員的垂詢,劉委員的垂詢,我是劉委員。下午的總預算到底能不能互違?院長有沒有把握?因為院長那天在答覆的時候跟我講說,不至於不會過了。那萬一不會過,怎麼處理?而且又是你當了院長,第一次依照自己的意識去編的預算。萬一不會過,影響的層面非常廣。"},{"start":8290.677,"end":8318.829,"text":"不然你都會影響到那你答覆我是應該不至於不會過萬一不會過怎麼辦下禮拜再來下禮拜再來下禮拜再來這個下禮拜再來到最終最終如果可以過那當然什麼事情都沒有了嘛就貫徹這個預算要達標嘛達到你們的意志整個施政的這個理念嘛那萬一還是不過勒"},{"start":8320.66,"end":8349.952,"text":"你看啦院長我還是這一句話應該不會不會過因為這是國家人民的大事甚至台灣的大事現在看起來也是世界上一件重要的事我還是期待院長的信心可以履行啦齁但是還是要請院長要有相關的因應之道啦好不好謝謝院長那第二個今天是美國總統大選院長有預知的能力能不能答覆一下預知哪一位"},{"start":8351.274,"end":8372.821,"text":"美國總統會選會當選?我沒有這個能力預測本美國總統的選舉預測我們自己總統的選舉可能比較有能力美國總統選舉我沒有能力預測好那如果沒有辦法預測能力就應該要有相關的因應之道誰當選對台灣的政策對台灣的影響"},{"start":8373.735,"end":8380.119,"text":"包含從經濟、包含從相關的產業會有什麼樣的影響?我們有準備好了嗎?你看喔,院長請看一下圖表"},{"start":8399.643,"end":8423.743,"text":"這個是我們近一年美國稱為台灣出口最大的一個投資市場那台灣在對美國出口額在過去5年是快速增加從2017年的115億到2023年是增加到215億美元換了總統,絕對有不一樣的做法跟思維嘛那我想美國總統大選之前已經鬧得灰又洋洋川普說過什麼樣的話,賀錦麗說過什麼樣的話"},{"start":8426.203,"end":8438.215,"text":"我想不管站在經濟不管站在產業不管站在投資美國這個市場誰當選對我們影響甚巨嗎那我們應該有相關的因應的這樣的一個方針在準備吧"},{"start":8439.153,"end":8467.558,"text":"我認為美國是一個民主純熟的國家選舉當中很多的政策未來還是要經過美國整個國家在大政策大方向的前提之下持續它長久以來的發展跟方向所以我是覺得未來的健康有序的發展應該還是我們現在有信心有把握的對院長有信心有把握我也非常的能夠期待但是因應的相關的方針有預備好了嗎"},{"start":8470.19,"end":8493.29,"text":"誰當選?對不對?我們應該有一定的應的作為嗎?請簡單答覆,謝謝。我們現在是有在做準備。那原則上川普的當選對我們差異性比較大。那我們也看到他整個政策主要是他會對中國加增60%的關稅。對一般的國家增加10%的關稅。那第二個部分在技術的控管。"},{"start":8493.905,"end":8518.287,"text":"那因為這個部分呢其實對台灣來講其實是利多於弊的原因主要是第一個會加速台灣的移動台商移動第二個事情是我們有這個機會得到更多的取代訂單取代那這幾年其實中國很多的訂單是被取代下來你特別提到他對中國會加稅嗎對其他國家會加稅嗎對台灣會不會對台企業會不會怎樣處理你如果要回答我就應該回答這些"},{"start":8521.278,"end":8543.934,"text":"基本上它是增加10%但是它是逐步增加那因為台灣的企業基本上是以幫美國廠商代工為主所以我們的影響並沒有那麼的劇烈那第二個事情是它會做技術的限令那技術的限令是為了保障美國利益那基本上我們會跟著這個技術限令中我們認為有機會得到好處"},{"start":8545.265,"end":8547.706,"text":"報告委員,我們的準備是這樣,就是依照這個國發會的這樣的一個佈局"},{"start":8569.195,"end":8585.026,"text":"那就經濟部的立場來看就像剛才國發會的這個推論是一樣的就是賀錦麗因為她是延續她民主黨的這個政策所以對我們來講是沒有太大的這個改變如果是今天是這個川普當選"},{"start":8586.147,"end":8586.928,"text":"我再請院長看這一個齁"},{"start":8611.255,"end":8636.712,"text":"台灣要進到超高齡社會,院長非常清楚,65歲已經要達到20%,可能今年年底就到了啦,或許是明年初嘛,原本是預估在最早之前是2026啦,你看這三年前就提早說提早會提早到2025,那我看是應該是2024的年底就會達標了啦,因為統計數據會有呈現的速度快慢的這個狀況。那五個人就有一個人超過65歲,這個國家的人口結構快速轉變,"},{"start":8640.472,"end":8657.257,"text":"其實什麼都會變,從經濟、產業、文化、教育等等是快跟慢,這個部分坦白說,我在院長的施政報告我都有拜託過這一塊人口結構快速轉變的因應作為,院長我是沒有看到的"},{"start":8658.001,"end":8680.003,"text":"我們另外有人口對策的,在討論特定的議題,那已經開過數字的會議了。你再看,小英還沒有當總統之前的長照1,交1.0吧,平均4、5十億啦,坦白講很多是用行政院、預備軍去動之啦。小英上台之後的第二年,成立長照基金,從4、5十億變成321,你看那是幾倍數的在成長。"},{"start":8681.564,"end":8703.553,"text":"到了現在賴總統就位了,明年的長照今年是826億,明年是927億,還是快速在增加。那院長你可以看這個相關的一些資料,衛福部推動一國中學區一日間照顧中心,院長部長看一下,到了112年還有7個縣市未達成,未達到8成,院長覺得這樣很及格嗎?"},{"start":8710.868,"end":8711.189,"text":"家庭社區、機構、團體"},{"start":8733.376,"end":8740.961,"text":"院長跟部長開一個資料,截至到112年底,全國有7748村里,累計有4101個村里佈建,4830個關懷據點,佈建率為52.93,金門跟台北已經超過70%。我的縣市雲林縣到現在為止37點多,其他的縣市不及50%的一大堆。院長覺得這樣及格嗎?"},{"start":8763.991,"end":8792,"text":"那請衛福部跟藥都住行這個地方政府能夠配合那中央能夠協助的我們積極的趕上你的目標要不要設定出來院長是一個很有信心的人像這樣有三成多五成多的其他縣市已經來到七成全國目前為止在做這個關懷據點我覺得齁我要跟院長因為時間的關係我講最快的速度啦齁長照關懷據點重中之重"},{"start":8792.978,"end":8816.298,"text":"我一生追求是希望讓台灣的人民六個字而已預防走入長照或許大家聽起來會很衝突矛盾政府在推長照的政策裡面是百姓的感受度好的、正向的是非常高的那我為什麼反而不希望人民走入長照長照後反而法律定義非常清楚長期身體心理沒辦法治理"},{"start":8817.418,"end":8842.526,"text":"要讓人家處理啦,要讓人家料理嘛,簡單講就是要有六三六六就對了啦。我們做蓋好的長照就是很多人這樣的需求,你看他的預算節節在上升。這是非常恐怖的,你看有哪幾中央部會相關的各機關的單位預算,有哪一個像長照預算這麼快速增加?非常少,少之又少。"},{"start":8843.783,"end":8869.04,"text":"那代表整個臺灣超過一定的年齡的這個需求長照人數他是在擴充他是在增加那另外一個角度當然我們的服務項目服務的對象也在增加是沒有錯不過我必須要提醒如果今天賴清德總統打造的健康臺灣然後我們的長照的需求又持續在擴大其實這是衝突跟矛盾的"},{"start":8870.323,"end":8880.79,"text":"簡單用一個台語說啦,簡單一句話就好了啦,人生如果吃到,吃到八九十歲,要做好東西啦,不用對那八成啦,不用用六三十九五六年就對了啦,這叫好事。"},{"start":8881.852,"end":8882.192,"text":"那我要請教院長跟部長"},{"start":8905.438,"end":8919.728,"text":"當時長照呼喚我們在主體的時候啦報完長照基金在設立的時候我們都有特別要求一定要有預防走入長照一定比喻在長照基金裡面院長跟部長可以答覆我嗎?比喻是多少?"},{"start":8923.14,"end":8943.769,"text":"新委員的隨行,我們在長照山頂特別強調也就是委員所一直關心的希望能夠用預防的角度所以我們怎麼樣預防失能其實是長照山頂最重要的一件事情也就是說剛剛院長所提到我們健康台灣希望不健康的移民能夠降低"},{"start":8944.611,"end":8947.171,"text":"今年876億長照預防的比例在佔876億多少?明年920億預防的比例是多少?然後你著重在哪一塊?"},{"start":8972.662,"end":8998.571,"text":"除了你剛剛講的那幾項,你昨天再來一塊。報告委員長照基本上都是都是剛剛你講的就是說基本上看起來他的工作的內容來講基本上的確過去都是照顧這個失能嘛但是如果要把它推到前面那可能要結合到醫療體系跟社區整合型照顧體系"},{"start":8998.911,"end":9026.389,"text":"我真的時間一萬兩千年齁?我們如果陳吳院長也覺得預防走入長照是我們打造現在台灣的一個目標跟方法來講那你在長照基金的預防就比重要拉高嘛那我們就很清楚今年800多億你的預防比例是多少明年900多億你的預防比例是多少那你要放在哪一塊嘛你的社區公園據點你基本上你到現在為止全國不到五成"},{"start":9027.744,"end":9049.276,"text":"市區會計程的用意非常重要我原提的這個問題我們應該是科學上來把它算數一下因為現在比較難算數我們在比如說社區照顧多元當中有很多是健康跟亞健康的國人他可能進到裡面他不是需要長照的也有他可能在從事一些活動啦運動啦等等或交流"},{"start":9049.696,"end":9076.035,"text":"那這個部分我們會有多少的預算或許目前沒有系列成這個樣子那這個研究是有價值的OK 院長 這個我們之前我剛剛特別強調在成立長照基金的時候我們就有特別要求了這一定要有一定的比例啦我們有關懷訪視嘛我們有參與健康活動等嘛這些絕對不是只有長照需求者的對象不是只有長照需求者其實坦白講我們現在處理的面向已經非常廣了"},{"start":9077.809,"end":9099.885,"text":"會得到正向的這樣的一個肯定基本上不是只有照顧這一群連波卡或旭緯我們一併在照顧了所以這個部分你們要非常的去盤整清楚然後到底這個預防的費用應該佔你的整個長照基金連對長照基金的比例是多少你才可以達到真正的預防總預長照的效果"},{"start":9101.551,"end":9118.21,"text":"這個必須要!這個健康照顧的確是連續的,剛剛院長也有指示,那我想我們如果來把他欺負比較屬於在預防性,其實你現在在照顧就是讓他不要失能,不要躺下來,這個都是長照裡面非常重要的工作,這其實都是屬於預防他。"},{"start":9118.977,"end":9133.759,"text":"施能的一個很重要的所以院長也有認同那部長我希望這樣我們再把它分析問題分析得更細緻一點這一個月也可以吧我們把這樣相關的面向把它盤整出來檢討出來然後我們在明年度的也明年度還沒"},{"start":9147.732,"end":9165.378,"text":"好,謝謝劉建國委員質詢,謝謝卓院長及相關首長的備詢。報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁聽的,是我們張家俊委員邀請來自雲林湖林關大B歡迎,熱烈歡迎大B家的好朋友,謝謝。在接下來我們請22號登記的羅廷偉委員質詢。"},{"start":9174.858,"end":9179.559,"text":"好 謝謝韓院長 有請左院長以及衛福部部長羅委員再請哪一位部長衛福部麻煩請衛福部部長備選羅委員好"},{"start":9195.109,"end":9215.971,"text":"院長好 院長坦白講表現的這麼差違法任用人士還違法進口輸出液、中火增加煙囪管、荼毒台中人這樣子總預算你覺得會過嗎?到現在還敢抗中保台出征劉德華你覺得總預算會過嗎?"},{"start":9221.263,"end":9246.009,"text":"講了這麼多不要只聽後面前面最重要的整個預算人事的任用人事禁用的部分我也請衛部要再詳細的調查說明跟委員要做報告來 院長我跟你說就不符合資格任用的零星副審查員我們繼續我跟你沒完沒了10月23號衛福部高調的回答入取者雖然資格不符"},{"start":9247.009,"end":9259.12,"text":"所以有多年的國會經驗他們需要尊重用人單位是以計畫、經費、聘用、約用人員現在部長你有沒有請他離開"},{"start":9260.467,"end":9286.421,"text":"我沒有請他離開他走了嗎我跟你講我針對的是整個通案不是個案你們在媒體面前高姿態的告訴大家資格不符國會經驗需要現在你跟我講你私底下請他走怎麼了"},{"start":9286.821,"end":9288.442,"text":"現在整個衛福部啊就是胡作非為整個食藥署的人事約用經費就有4.7億"},{"start":9309.366,"end":9325.042,"text":"整個政府我可以大膽的評估啊約用人員數十億的金額就給你們這樣子包庇人事案食藥署之花去酒店兼差沒有背景馬上被懲處現在這個林姓婦審查員拖這麼久你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":9332.609,"end":9334.713,"text":"我們都按照程序來處理齁,那不當的監視就馬上開場,馬上開機會了"},{"start":9345.509,"end":9374.152,"text":"整個資格任用的過程就是違法任用我要告訴你請院長承諾調查整個政府總預算約用人員有沒有類似這樣子的案件你這個有可能就違反到了使公務人員登載不實資格不符還硬要任用牽拖國會經驗這個事情我不是針對個案是整個政府人事的預算案都有可能問題"},{"start":9375.467,"end":9402.901,"text":"所以我要請部長不要再亂了整個秋市風格整個衛福部食藥署大家都很不能習慣我們要的是治理好國家而不是再養你們這些綠油油綠的子弟兵啊所以我再問一句部長要不要錢你不願意道歉你不願意道歉你現在請這個人是要走人你幹嘛請他走不是沒有錯嗎"},{"start":9405.639,"end":9428.397,"text":"人民的血汗錢被你這樣子花?我不跟你談這個。行政單位的表現爛到爆有多爛?我們看看,針對三件食藥署的人事案本席發文給人總、法務部、廉政署竟然副本我也給了院長室,得到的回函是什麼?"},{"start":9429.315,"end":9456.796,"text":"是希望上級單位作為第三方人總的法務部廉政署能夠督導食藥署衛福部結果咧回文給我人總竟然說他們已經發文給衛福部請衛福部自己調查處理你的調查處理這樣子合適嗎自己調查自己我的天啊你們的行政你們的表現人民可以接受嗎"},{"start":9460.008,"end":9464.85,"text":"我們一切都會按規定來用人。院長,這是整個行政體系在做夢嗎?這些人事案不是昨天才發生耶,歷經了數年耶!"},{"start":9476.986,"end":9491.321,"text":"是我們點出來才處理到現在還說自己調查自己我希望院長立刻撤換食藥署人事室主任政風室主任要求人總法務部五天內給我們一個相關調查報告院長可以承諾嗎"},{"start":9492.444,"end":9498.728,"text":"我還是剛剛那一句,資格不符為先,如果沒有錯,不應該請人走。你現在請人家走就代表你有錯,你又不願意道歉。"},{"start":9520.691,"end":9524.835,"text":"這件事情我們後續再追我們繼續來院長針對輸出疫的現在的狀況我們政策有5點需求是整個本土藥廠一直在發生的院長你自行看一下PTT對不起 羅委員時間暫停那其他部長請回"},{"start":9545.802,"end":9549.046,"text":"時間還在走不好意思時間還在走剛剛院長說時間暫停待會要還我15秒好院長可以開始了嗎"},{"start":9567.368,"end":9589.202,"text":"針對整個輸出區,現在本土藥廠有五點需求。我簡單講一下,為了配合政府的政策補足輸出溢現在的缺口,因此嚴重加班,超時召勞工局來積查、罰款、祭典。藥廠配合現在的政府政策,但是卻沒有得到政府的幫助。"},{"start":9590.216,"end":9610.276,"text":"被罰、被祭奠是藥廠自己的問題,誰願意配合?輸出役如果最後沒辦法補足缺口,最後人民受害。有產能但能力不足,是不是藥廠不斷地在發生能夠比照所謂的過往國家隊,能夠讓替代役或高階能力能夠投入藥廠生產增加產能?"},{"start":9610.996,"end":9625.638,"text":"三、配合生產250毫升、1000毫升其他生理實驗水的規格、其他的容量沒辦法生產,被醫院開罰、重罰,食藥署到現在沒辦法溝通協調,只是道德勸說醫院不要罰。"},{"start":9626.559,"end":9639.112,"text":"配合政府政策前提都是配合政府誰願意做人民最後受害這樣子的表現我在這邊發聲建保署8月15新聞稿就有說過為鼓勵國內業者增產10月1號調漲輸出益支付價最高27%"},{"start":9646.311,"end":9674.041,"text":"院長您知道嗎這是參考10年前藥品支付標準的上限價來訂定的10年的波動整個物價大家都有感這種條幅完全無法滿足廠商的基本需求我現在在講的是基本需求連要謀生都不行了怎麼去配合政府最後沒有輸出益人民受害只是回到原先10年前的一個合價專案進口可以用高價格擠付"},{"start":9676.042,"end":9685.13,"text":"專案進口可以高價起伏對於本土廠現在國產的量能卻沒辦法給予幫助合理嗎?又要馬兒好又要馬兒不吃草"},{"start":9686.325,"end":9710.604,"text":"所以我希望建保署以平時的價格能夠去兩到三倍進口輸出益這樣子圖利所謂的進口為什麼不能夠照顧本土廠所以今天我要在這邊講希望院長能夠邀集各部會聽取業者的困難邀集各部會一起協助衛福部處理輸出益缺口的問題院長可以答應我嗎"},{"start":9711.324,"end":9732.192,"text":"專案進口終究不是一個正常的常態我們終究還是靠國內的廠商那國內廠商基本生產所需要的條件跟政府關係我們要維持好我會要求衛生部做好這一點謝謝你最後我要跟你講這個簽購採購案是誰核准的我想請問一下就食藥署5月13日啟動公開徵求專案輸入"},{"start":9734.753,"end":9759.866,"text":"我有去詢問過生理食鹽水有無依據政府採購公開徵求採購若沒有法律依據是什麼可不可以回答我們是用藥事法27條之二必要的藥品來 抓到了食藥署供應平台你現在在西藥供應資訊平台重點生理食鹽水就是非必要的藥品所以藥事法第27條之二"},{"start":9763.308,"end":9768.514,"text":"根本不能使用你還在胡扯為什麼你一直要胡扯"},{"start":9769.716,"end":9794.193,"text":"要是把27條之二不適用於生理食鹽水,生理食鹽水是非必要藥品,這是你們開記者會說的。所以又是類推適用嗎?所以又是類推適用,上次我就問你了,你問我,你回答我說類推適用,你引用是藥事法,62條有漏洞,有漏洞嗎?"},{"start":9796.263,"end":9824.028,"text":"有漏洞嗎我現在要先說再澄清一下我們用的是27條之二對不起所以又變了嘛27條之二我就跟你講了那你就不要開記者會告訴大家生理食鹽水非必要藥品現在又在用藥事法27條之二自己打臉你的臉不痛嗎它是人民生命所需要的所以它必須要用這個違法的專案"},{"start":9826.65,"end":9839.944,"text":"這筆錢怎麼付?全民買單嗎?總預算編列這樣子?對嗎?說得過去嗎?我上次問你的用生理食鹽水要用消保法處理了沒?還在管保護公司喔?"},{"start":9843.348,"end":9847.489,"text":"我就是衝著你這句話如果發生了人民任何的問題我就看衛福部要不要幫忙協助沒有錯那是我們政府機關必須要做的問題是"},{"start":9874.4,"end":9901.133,"text":"我要邀請陳世凱部長還有林佳龍部長請上來請交通部長還有經濟交通部長外交部部長林佳龍部長請回衛福部邱部長請回彭部長彭部長已有你的事啊中火啊你怎麼可以不上來還是沒有環境部了是空汙汙染部"},{"start":9905.595,"end":9920.666,"text":"院長我就簡單請問你一個問題,中火現在二期燃氣的環評,在兩個月內火速通過出審,環評大會不理地方政府還有現在環團的意見,現在煙囪管會不會增加?"},{"start":9921.827,"end":9947.474,"text":"最終煙囪管會不會增加?煙囪管會不會增加?未來到2035年它只會有6部燃氣機組在正常運作還有咧?那6部燃煙機組備而不用中火的5根煙囪管要變6根這就是事實你旁邊的就是所謂的污染護航部"},{"start":9948.752,"end":9977.662,"text":"我要告訴大家在你旁邊的林佳龍部長在105年擔任台中市市長的時候他非常棒他非常有勇氣他通過了台中市生美管制條例107年你們將空污法修二限所有地方政府為民服務為民把關的權利後面呢你把生美管制條例直接作廢你對得起台中人嗎"},{"start":9978.888,"end":9998.456,"text":"到現在為止我們看到了中火有可能火力全開藍旗藍媒機組指針不減王美花、蔡英文時期答應爭一拆一現在呢跳票做不到我請問院長你對得起台中人嗎"},{"start":9999.701,"end":10000.421,"text":"臺中人臺中人臺中人"},{"start":10012.93,"end":10031.837,"text":"陳部長我想請問你作為台中人你作何感想我在乎的是減煤跟減碳如果可以做到減煤跟減碳我覺得身為台中人是可以接受的所有的台中人都支持蒸汽減煤這是最重要的前提我們都支持沒有人反對蒸汽減煤"},{"start":10032.757,"end":10057.306,"text":"但現在看到的是爭完氣以後你們所謂的備而不用環境部開了這個記者會裡面很清楚的顯示不是為了國安不是為了戰爭而是有可能小老鼠有可能松鼠、蛇造成的跳電我們就要火力全開你自己也承認晚上的時候火力發電高達95%以上院長"},{"start":10060.247,"end":10062.308,"text":"臺中市的衛生局提供的資料肺癌是屬於很高致癌的癌症"},{"start":10086.71,"end":10093.377,"text":"一手拿著你的財產,一手拿著你的生命。我要告訴現在的行政院,我們不排除所有的抗爭,空污法107年修了,我們要把它修回來。"},{"start":10108.251,"end":10120.742,"text":"我們要還權於民、還權於地方我們要讓地方政府有權捍衛台中市所有國人的身體健康我們一定會全力以赴"},{"start":10141.797,"end":10155.733,"text":"因為我們是以計算一分鐘為單元,沒問題,因為我們剛剛答問題時,我們再給他一分鐘,請羅委員繼續。我會要求台電把每一年的狀況算出來,告訴國人,也告訴台中市民。"},{"start":10156.653,"end":10178.832,"text":"我們不放心現在的政府一再的跳票連王美花曾經答應的蔡英文時期答應的曾一、蔡一現在都做不到你要國人如何相信現在的政府備而不用變常態使用藍莓基礎就是肺癌發電我們走著瞧二期環評也就是一個氣換一個美院長謝謝我還你時間好謝謝羅廷偉執行謝謝主委院長及各部會首長的備詢"},{"start":10191.172,"end":10195.993,"text":"在接下來我們請登記23號賴瑞榮委員質詢。好,謝謝韓院長,請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。卓院長,對總預算復違有沒有信心,會不會擔心?"},{"start":10223.158,"end":10224.099,"text":"院長這三個禮都可以接受嗎?對不對?"},{"start":10249.039,"end":10268.354,"text":"也要大院能夠接受就你同意那如果立法院這邊也同意其實就解了嘛對阿在前面那幾個原則性的問題大家要有共識對那另外你有一個原則啦就是說對於這個行政立法要相互尊重是相互尊重的意思其實就是在於說這幾個預算如果有增加部分一定要得到行政院的同意嘛對不對"},{"start":10268.894,"end":10291.044,"text":"要徵詢,同時必須同時找出彌補資金之來源,否則突然間預算會大起來,會對我們整個施政的原始計畫會產生排擠。這是在建立行政院立法應該相互尊重的一個機制,而且是責任政治的機制嘛,不然立法院毛起來一直增加預算,那行政院每一個都要買單的話,那這個施政怎麼施政,那責任誰負?"},{"start":10292.588,"end":10320.524,"text":"所以我想這是一個憲政的問題那我想這個原則確實基礎所以這也是上次院長說過這一次用這樣的方式來處理那當然未來還是希望一定要回到憲政下的這個相互尊重所以對這一次建法補償我們也希望說如果大家有前提共識之下我們共同來尋找資金之來源那可以把這次程序完全的補正那將來大家彼此按照這樣的共識跟程序來進行以後的法律案跟預算案"},{"start":10321.204,"end":10348.774,"text":"所以未來照這樣的程序來走也就是說不應該在行政院不同意的狀況下硬增加預算是吧是要尊重彼方彼此之間的意見那我再問一下院長那4萬跟6萬這個部分呢?進法補償4萬跟6萬的部分就是中間如果有預算還不足的部分我們就希望剛剛說的三個方式所以院長可以同意6萬但是就是用這三個解方來解啦用原住民綜合發動基金這是要解決今年的問題我們願意這樣來思考"},{"start":10350.635,"end":10351.456,"text":"我還是要問如果最壞最壞的狀況"},{"start":10373.882,"end":10395.538,"text":"不通過的話,一樣不復違的話,對於整個明年度的總預算會有什麼樣的影響?我看到了影響會有2500億,其中有700億是民生的支出啦齁。我先問一下,那如果預算遲遲無法復回審查,遲遲無法通過,到了今年的快進年度前都無法通過的話,那對於軍公教條型會不會產生影響?"},{"start":10396.783,"end":10397.383,"text":"對,我們這是為了健全台電的"},{"start":10426.314,"end":10455.291,"text":"建權他的這個財務我們希望以前的補貼政策跟目的世界主管機關能夠有所因應所以會回到目的世界主管機關去編列那這個部分可能造成將來在用電上或是電費收取上會造成彼此之間造成很多的不便因為電費我們還適度的做了一些調整嘛那但是調整之後我們希望不要影響到學校會給他補貼那如果預算沒有通過的話學校沒有辦法拿到這個補貼他用電上面一定吃緊嘛因為你並不清楚你到底能不能"},{"start":10458.153,"end":10467.601,"text":"一開始可能一月份開始沒有遇到這個問題但是總之你讓一個狀況在不穩定的情況底下持續下去大家心理上的不安焦慮就會產生"},{"start":10468.459,"end":10492.231,"text":"道路改善的經費104億這個會受到影響,地方政府包括很多地方的重要道路改善包括省道改善計畫還有很多護理人員的整備計畫還有家電的住宅家電的一個效率的提升公共公路系統運輸系統的整個永續發展都會是在相關的就是補助給地方的676億當中"},{"start":10493.612,"end":10508.218,"text":"特別是在今年度幾個颱風都對台灣產生相當大的影響不管是豪雨或者是風對於整個道路影響其實很多都需要這個都有可能會產生影響所以我們希望這個總預算要盡快不要讓"},{"start":10509.278,"end":10509.618,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":10532.91,"end":10554.223,"text":"這些都很急啦,包括前瞻也很急,甚至於包括台電的撥補也很急啦,台電如果不持續的競速的撥補的話,他一樣有這個電價上的一些壓力啦,所以我們認為這些都應該立法院競速來審議。要刪或者要怎麼樣凍結都可討論,但是全部把它卡住了,連審都不審,我認為這是立法院施予自己的職責啦。"},{"start":10555.066,"end":10567.961,"text":"那在我請教我看到消防的部分也影響到了消防部有11億的安全這幾年的部分我看消防人員有時候也確實出生入死這個部分也應該給予更多的支持對我們對消防弟兄"},{"start":10569.397,"end":10569.697,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":10585.86,"end":10601.197,"text":"執行工作的安全動用第二日備金我們也同意我們這個部分我們絕對都國家是一體的啦其實是應該要整體來支持其實不只啦包括教育包括甚至醫療癌症的新藥包括甚至農民包括國家安全其實都等待這些預算"},{"start":10601.898,"end":10621.091,"text":"新增的部分沒有通過新增是無法動用即使是延續性的計畫你沒有確定下來的話他在使用上面有很多的一些困擾所以我們真的認為立法院應該儘速來復違把總預算來復為審查我認為這個才對得起國人對立法院對於整個政府的期待"},{"start":10622.813,"end":10635.748,"text":"除了這幾個列以外其實我看到還有很多沒有列在上面也很重要包括0到6歲國家養我認為這個非常重要少子化很嚴重問題我認為包括賴總統包括左院長的團隊很重視支持我非常的贊同"},{"start":10637.29,"end":10661.164,"text":"三百三十五億的這樣一個經費一樣如果沒有盡快通過其實在執行上面明年度很多要執行也會遇到問題包括給這些的新的父母新生兒的父母給他們更多支持力道絕對會受到影響我們認為這個都應該盡速來通過是0到6歲國家一起養包括前瞻包括非營業特種基金加起來一共有1177億是"},{"start":10664.125,"end":10686.354,"text":"每個家庭都在等待跟過去一樣政策的延續或是新增的項目下一代是我們很重要的競爭力啦如果我們的不斷的掃紙話題不能夠去做的有效的解決這是一個國家要面對問題那我認為都不應該讓這些事情去卡住了這個國家該做的事情這些事情我沒有看到任何人反對幾乎朝野的立委都支持但是總預算卡住了他就是無法來執行"},{"start":10687.054,"end":10706.982,"text":"就是因為看到這樣我才覺得我們應該深有信心包括地方治水包括地方治水現在這次颱風完了很多地方治水也很急著特別是今年我們又新發現有些問題要去強化的地方治水又有159億新增的部分新增的部分就增加100億如果新增沒有通過的話它根本連動用都不能動用"},{"start":10707.802,"end":10723.289,"text":"所以這些全部都是國家應該要儘速來推動所以我真的也認為也期盼下午的這個副委的部分要儘速來推動所以再次問院長對於下午的總預算副委有沒有信心"},{"start":10724.431,"end":10740.275,"text":"我對立法院很有信心很有信心我們看到各地方政府包括新竹縣長楊文科國民黨的一個縣長也認為期判立委他也呼籲他的兩個立委趕快來做審查我相信這是所有地方縣市政府共同期判"},{"start":10740.435,"end":10742.496,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。：完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":10767.023,"end":10787.756,"text":"今天的部分空污最嚴重的地區,院長你認為在哪邊?北中南空污最嚴重的地區在哪邊?北中南空污最嚴重的地區?最嚴重的地區。今天吶?今天,其實我告訴你好了啦,這幾天都是南部啦。南部為什麼空污最嚴重?今天,昨天是舉井,南部是舉井,然後北部是綠的。"},{"start":10788.596,"end":10816.363,"text":"今天黃色的臺中綠色臺北綠色空氣良好所以高雄其實南部高雄屏東台南都承受了這個重工業城市的很多的一些壓力那我要講的是在採劃法裡面的時候我都認為應該要多去照顧這些為國家付出跟犧牲這麼多的一些縣市他臺電電力啦高雄電力是40%往中往北送"},{"start":10817.795,"end":10846.361,"text":"剛剛還在談要不要電廠,高雄還在增加新電廠,在增加新的燃力電廠,即使高雄已經增加了40%電往中央、往北送,高雄還是在增加電廠,因為他考慮到是國家整體利益,但也考慮到未來高雄產業發展需要,這個才是一個大格局在思考國家的思考,如果每個都只想著自己的話,那什麼都好的我都要,經濟發展我要,招商我要,電力建設我要,但是發電我不要,發電你發給我,那這樣國家不會進步,城市也不會進步,"},{"start":10846.801,"end":10856.319,"text":"那我要講的是財劃法的部分昨天我看到財劃法的版本國民黨版本3%直接給台北市說因為台北市是首都院長這樣公平嗎"},{"start":10857.93,"end":10882.957,"text":"你的看法呢?長年以來就是在這種計算分配底下對財政比較好的縣市尤其是直轄市一直都有比較好的分配那對於這些財政困難的地方院長如果國民黨版本裡面直接再加3%優先分配3%全台灣只有首都有台北市3%院長你認為這個有道理嗎?你同意嗎?你支持嗎?"},{"start":10884.178,"end":10912.064,"text":"我雖然在臺北市出生照道理講臺北市的建設我要重視但是我要公開的說我在立法院幾年當中我沒有為臺北市爭取過一塊錢我認為臺北市是財政是很好的他應該均衡好臺北市已經相對於其他縣市已經是天之礁石及其他國家整體的資源還硬要要求3%的財政分配比例給臺北市我認為這是完全是不公平也不合理的所以我們現在會重視把臺灣整個均衡加在隨便舉個例子就好臺電的電廠"},{"start":10914.278,"end":10941.268,"text":"高雄、興達、南部火力發電廠、大陵電廠兩個在我的選區內總公司設在臺北臺北佔盡了這個優勢工廠在高雄、污染在高雄而稅收是在臺北的光佔了這麼多優勢都還沒有算這筆帳的現在還要求不會的多數的這個國民黨要求把財政收入範圍3%交給臺北市院長這樣有道理嗎?你同意嗎?你支持嗎?"},{"start":10942.557,"end":10956.492,"text":"如果從整體軍人台灣的角度來看確實是應該要檢討但這個制度長久以來存在那我們過去的幾年以及現在我們是希望用其他方式把需要的地方我們用統籌分配稅款的方式或其他的方式能夠把它拉高"},{"start":10957.641,"end":10986.33,"text":"讓台灣的各個縣市能夠比較均衡我希望在院長這個你的任內齁應該要全力的去均衡全台的一個發展全台發展那不要特別是全部過度集中在台北絕對不是好事包括人口過度集中造成的各項的問題絕對不是好事包括房價高漲交通塞車包括所絕對不是好事那如果能夠全台均衡發展不要讓人一定要到台北才有好的機會我認為那才是一個健全的台灣跟一個成熟的台灣"},{"start":10986.65,"end":11007.215,"text":"除了一般的補助之外,其實我最想做的,是把那些財政能力差的縣市,如何把它補救回來,讓它能夠有更好的競爭力。所以我認為有很多調配的工作其實是要由中央來做啦,你把錢全部丟到地方去,那很多是需要大筆的資源,甚至統合性的工作,跨縣市的工作,那誰來做?"},{"start":11008.415,"end":11030.49,"text":"所以我覺得這個絕對不是一個好方式就像以前那個縣市很多時候以前沒有執強室以前就很多鄉鎮每個各做各的每個鄉鎮各做各的就反倒不整合就後來反倒是由中央整體來做之後比如說執強室來做之後它反而可以達到整個更好的一個效果我也希望財政收支劃分法朝野要大家要有耐性做一個好的處理"},{"start":11031.536,"end":11051.257,"text":"每個黨都有可能成為執政黨每個黨也都有可能成為國會的多數黨如果一直這樣搞的話國家永無寧日我認為對國家長遠發展絕對是壞事院長可以這樣看嗎為了我們區域性的治理比如說桃竹苗、中章投雲、嘉南、高屏、花東、北北基等等這個根本更不可能是單一縣市可以自己完成"},{"start":11051.517,"end":11051.937,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":11070.023,"end":11084.251,"text":"八年前的時候林全院長到了大林埔去為了過去的這個遷村就是對空污的污染跟所有的鄉親們代表政府來道歉同時也承諾來進行遷村來改善鄉鄉市營院長"},{"start":11085.111,"end":11111.358,"text":"可不可以邀請你到大林埔來跟鄉親們聊聊聽聽鄉親們的心聲。好的委員上司也跟我提過我相信下禮拜之後我應該有比較充裕的時間可以更多時間到各地去走走看看。我認為院長是這一段相當柔軟也相當有智慧的那我也希望你到地方去之後聽聽大家聲音也讓大林埔的人知道說院長包括現在的團隊非常重視這樣的問題現在不管是前村的進度不管是從環平到"},{"start":11111.998,"end":11113.379,"text":"謝謝賴院長委員質詢。謝謝卓院長部會首長的備詢。"},{"start":11129.039,"end":11148.712,"text":"報告委員會,現在在議場二樓旁聽的是公民監督國會聯盟、美國國際民主協會、英國西敏市民主基金會、澳洲、阿根廷、泰國、印尼等各地的學者專家。我們在此熱烈歡迎。歡迎。在接下來請登記24號賴世保委員質詢。"},{"start":11162.055,"end":11166.919,"text":"謝謝主席有請行政院的卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢代委員好代委員長你好我是不是可以合理的比較樂觀期待有關於這次總預算那麼你已經"},{"start":11191.294,"end":11197.667,"text":"宣布了,或者是要處理了,就是差那個20幾億,一定把它補起來,我可以這樣子理解嗎?"},{"start":11199.412,"end":11225.621,"text":"行政院有提出我們的看法跟期待那我希望這個期待是我們互相建立這樣的尊重共識原則底下我們共同來找出資金的來源那我已經提出了幾個方法但是每個方法都有委員不同意所以我想還是要談一下那總之這就是一個解決的方向就是要解決嘛!可以解決了這個要感謝我們韓院長他這麼智慧先讓這個程序先走"},{"start":11226.536,"end":11254.25,"text":"照你講,他是等於立法院先繞布,你知道嗎?兩者尊重啦,我也感謝有這個機會來做說明。我們說這是什麼,狹路相逢是勇者順。院長、韓院長很有智慧啊,扭一下,表面上讓你贏一下,事實上雙贏喔。國家往前走,所以20幾億的追加預算不要跳票。下午就很簡單的啊,復會就很簡單啊。"},{"start":11255.471,"end":11280.708,"text":"謝謝委員幫忙謝謝委員支持阿你要先坐阿院長給你搭一個台子你就順勢走下來對不對你要不要感謝一下我們韓院長謝謝韓院長謝謝大院其實如果是第一一開始就復委我來這裡講的跟今天講的就一模一樣這個這個內容從那個時候到現在我心裡的準備是沒有改變阿你先回我阿再先好啦我不要當這個時間了喔我們來看一下"},{"start":11285.566,"end":11288.847,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議"},{"start":11314.827,"end":11331.922,"text":"這部長可以來幫忙喔回答一下啊經濟部說認同欸我們中友董事長說要漲油價那個白話文就是要漲油價委員不是這樣的講法也不是這個邏輯啦不是這樣的講法我們的油價調整每週他都有一個機制在調整這個機制不會改變這個機制不會改變"},{"start":11335.914,"end":11337.455,"text":"報告委員我想這個現在的經濟學都這樣子啦今年的這個諾貝爾經濟學獎"},{"start":11364.534,"end":11384.666,"text":"德祖他講過這種廣納型的方式可能會得到一個比較好的結果所以拋出一個大家可以討論的議題聽聽這個社會的意見所以沒有錯喔 拋出要漲價的議題大家討論就是這樣就這個意思啊 對不對這種在室內討論的這種大概沒有辦法聽到所有人的聲音"},{"start":11393.855,"end":11394.443,"text":"所以一定要跑出來"},{"start":11396.274,"end":11397.214,"text":"請問你啊 請問你啊"},{"start":11426.649,"end":11443.958,"text":"現在的中油累積虧損多少?啊?中油的累積虧損多少?現在中油的累積虧損,你是說今年嗎?全部累積虧損當然到目前為止啊今年大概累積大概800億吧?累積虧損600多億啦,台電累積虧損多少?"},{"start":11449.847,"end":11455.909,"text":"臺電臺電多少我要強調的是在於在於啊你是說隆重嗎隆重累積啊累積啊收罰到現在為止過去盤古開店到現在累積虧損了現在臺電的累積到4200億好那你說臺電我們就要漲價"},{"start":11470.06,"end":11473.502,"text":"委員我們在這裡對話齁都有一個責任就是讓社會安心這並不會發生的事情"},{"start":11493.351,"end":11494.052,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":11510.367,"end":11510.847,"text":"這個只是一個議題嘛"},{"start":11539.329,"end":11567.671,"text":"我想這個委員你以前也是當教授你也很清楚這個都可以討論的阿部長你這個話跟院長不一樣喔院長踩了很死喔沒有得討論阿你是說大家討論他講的是投資喔他講世界是投資不是說調整這個價格喔菲律賓的如果在那裡種綠電運花來4塊錢那不可能4塊錢青菜公共捏"},{"start":11568.912,"end":11591.449,"text":"你知不知道菲律賓的電價平均多少?報告委員,我是不會青菜公共的。我在大學也教書,我教研究所,我怎麼可能青菜公共?我跟你一樣,你英國也在大學教車,你怎麼不青菜公共?我都不會青菜公共。你去大學青菜公共,不青菜公共,來這裡青菜公共?你跟我講啊,4塊錢!"},{"start":11593.789,"end":11600.777,"text":"菲律賓的發電成本多少你告訴我菲律賓多少錢各種不同的綠電平均多少我跟委員報告"},{"start":11606.878,"end":11609.02,"text":"不是 委員 你知道價格的影響變數很多嘛"},{"start":11627.745,"end":11637.412,"text":"那不能講說他現在的價格他現在的價格根據規模根據...我已經講過了我在菲律賓的這個價格4塊錢到台灣我才可能買"},{"start":11644.958,"end":11648.66,"text":"如果不考慮土地成本不考慮資金成本"},{"start":11672.307,"end":11686.139,"text":"那麼他的創電價格可以控制在3塊以下你先請回吧,因為我的題目很多,你不要在這讓我有太多時間請一下那個外交部長好不好好謝謝,麻煩請外交部長備詢這個院長看好齁"},{"start":11696.462,"end":11723.25,"text":"外交部長林佳龍10月29號去訪問聖文森對吧?部長?對,報告委員對啊!參觀了Orange Hill菊山生技中心我們還投入了1.3億包括菊山生技公司當然在聖文森這叫做什麼的?"},{"start":11724.705,"end":11743.572,"text":"這叫做大麻的怎麼會把我們國和基金的錢拿去投資拿去鼓勵我們的友邦做大麻這對我們來講是毒品吶報告委員查無此事查無此事什麼叫查無此事我聽不懂"},{"start":11746.618,"end":11770.452,"text":"就是我們沒有這個任何去援助跟大麻有關沒有,你有沒有投資一點三億給他?橘山生技是有一個很重大的一些...請問你有沒有...我們最主要包括養殖啦,這個畜種啦我就問你這個,有沒有投一點三億?我們...投一點三億給他們?查五尺是沒有涉及任何跟大麻種植有關"},{"start":11773.007,"end":11798.341,"text":"我們有協助他們包括家畜類還有包括果樹但是沒有大馬這個院長你要不要借這個機會因為我跟你講一個背景故事請問聖文山的人口多少11萬他們的國民所得多少"},{"start":11799.363,"end":11827.241,"text":"他們大概都一萬左右不大概一萬啦,八千九千左右啦齁這個這麼小的一個國家他的主要很重要的一個出口就是表面上叫用要用的大碼事實上就是娛樂性的大碼這是他很重要的產品輸出當然他大碼合法化了可是他基本上來講的話他就是裡面盛產了"},{"start":11828.917,"end":11830.099,"text":"報告委員我們比如像鳳梨的這些玉"},{"start":11844.4,"end":11848.523,"text":"大麻當然不是一個合法的不可以合法喔不可以合法然後"},{"start":11873.854,"end":11874.634,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":11889.106,"end":11913.479,"text":"對,我們不會去投資跟大馬有關的報告委員,維持外交關係當然要用很多的方法但是我想外交部會一定已經非常的謹慎跟我們各個有幫民主夥伴國家的合作也一定要在我們國內是合乎我們國家所需求的跟法律的規定,這個無憂置疑我提醒你,你這國家大馬合法化了啦"},{"start":11914.059,"end":11914.58,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":11941.227,"end":11966.732,"text":"現在大家最關心的請問就是川普啊川普到底誰會當選川普已經講了兩次了說台灣要Pay for Defense就是要叫保護會Pay for Defense講得非常清楚那我就請問啊兩次要叫保護會如果一旦這次大家認為川普當選機率很高"},{"start":11968.803,"end":11995.095,"text":"那我們是怎麼樣?直接付跑分費向這個韓國日本駐地當地有駐軍的美軍替他付錢最近漲了好幾倍喔漲了好幾倍喔還是說我們增加武器的購買還是呢增加像台積電多一點的台積電去那裡設廠哪一個院長你要不要講一下還是部長要講OK"},{"start":11995.832,"end":12007.383,"text":"我想跟委員報告我想不論誰當選我們國防部的立場就是說我們一定要展現自我防衛的能力跟決心那我們的以這一個"},{"start":12008.43,"end":12031.287,"text":"展現自我防衛人的決心來讓美國能夠看得到然後他們現在也運用各種的安援的手段包括PPA跟FMF所以他也很關切我們的國防的預算所以我們的國防預算也是一直以來都足足穩定的成長我們買了很多武器他最可能就是叫我們多買一些武器"},{"start":12032.268,"end":12039.134,"text":"雖然有時候廟宇他不賣但是呢他只要願意賣給我們我們就歡迎但是我們就發現到人的問題最重要"},{"start":12040.478,"end":12067.023,"text":"人不足啊,所以有沒有可能我題目我時間快到了,就問你這個最簡單的問題給志願役加薪可不可以,志願役加薪志願役太低啊,薪水太低沒人要來啊所以現在只有八成補啊這個補我們正在研議當中,因為主要是主戰部隊的邊線比比較低所以我們在志願役的勤務加急之外,該要針對主戰部隊的志願役加50%有沒有可能"},{"start":12068.67,"end":12073.656,"text":"我想這個要看整個傳譯度因為整個調整的弧度我想我們必須要研議之後"},{"start":12103.79,"end":12120.519,"text":"謝謝,謝謝賴思寶委員質詢,謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢,謝謝。報告委員會在一場二樓旁聽來自屏東縣離港鄉族群融合協會所有的好朋友,歡迎,歡迎,各位歡迎。報告委員會上午的質詢到此為止,下午2點30分繼續開會進行預算報告之質詢,現在休息。"},{"start":12901.397,"end":12901.417,"text":"麥克風測試1、2、3"},{"start":21609.881,"end":21626.429,"text":"發言會我們現在繼續開會現在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市玉光德福實驗教育機構所有的教職員大家好歡迎來立法院熱烈掌聲歡迎接下來我們進行預算報告的質詢請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":21644.246,"end":21672.021,"text":"好 謝謝院長有請行政院卓院長外交部陳寧部長麻煩請卓院長、外交部、國防部部長備詢卓院長好院長辛苦了不會我們每天都在思考國政"},{"start":21673.419,"end":21699.134,"text":"思考怎麼讓國家更好讓人民更幸福那我認為面對所有的挑戰所有的千秋霸業基本上都從山窮水盡中開始執政者要做最好的準備但是做最壞的打算所以每天都要戰戰兢兢努力成功"},{"start":21700.526,"end":21725.448,"text":"所以莫忘初心方得始終初心亦得始終難守這是為政者該有的基本心態那我相信這個內閣用人一定有他嚴謹的程序用人不疑 疑人不用最怕是且用且疑或是半贏半拒"},{"start":21726.997,"end":21754.48,"text":"我認為這個所有用人程序在那個部分絕對沒有問題不管他跟他操守能力各部分一定有他嚴謹的程序跟標準那我想請教這個為什麼最近會有那麼多人事的紛擾我相信你是一個仁義之人而且你是用人為財是財是所對國家的未來你們思考最好的人選"},{"start":21756.067,"end":21756.327,"text":"委員提到這一點"},{"start":21771.24,"end":21774.482,"text":"我完全相信人事學是屬於行政權力部分"},{"start":21796.926,"end":21824.736,"text":"政務人員上臺下臺就是離本屬稀鬆平常之事。任何從政者就必須保持一個平常心。他為什麼下臺還有人發出不平之名。我覺得用人程序嚴謹這絕對是沒有錯。這個標準我相信卓內閣已經做得到。我們一定非常謹慎。那我覺得那一定是有特殊的原因或者是溝通不良。如果溝通能夠好一點。"},{"start":21826.726,"end":21853.252,"text":"讓離職者、讓下台者能夠有更多理解我想就不會有這些誤會了是的,所以我們這個過程還是需要回過頭來看看所以我充分尊重我們都要充分尊重這個行政權裡面的用人權是財是所,用人為財我也相信是卓內閣這個用人的唯一的標準我相信但是我覺得要跟社會做更多的溝通跟說明是的"},{"start":21854.469,"end":21882.068,"text":"當然國家面對這個主要講嚴重一點是內憂外患內憂我們有內部政黨的嚴重的對立甚至社會的分裂外患中國的武力的威脅每天持續我個人認為我的觀察內憂部分藍白之亂"},{"start":21883.933,"end":21909.28,"text":"是屬於界限之極,會亂,會覺得很煩。界限之極啊,每天都會覺得很亂,每天都會覺得很煩,那邊也癢,那邊也癢。中國的威脅才是台灣的心腹大患。所以要治療界限之極藍白之亂,"},{"start":21910.58,"end":21936.901,"text":"人民的理性力量很重要我們如何讓人民的理性力量發揮在下一次選舉給予藍白色人這個制裁我相信人民的理性力量但是中國的武力威脅是台灣生存的心腹大患不能只有他們有毛我們只能用盾不能他們只有劍我們只有盾"},{"start":21939.4,"end":21967.483,"text":"建、頓、合一、有攻有守如何落實在外交政策跟國防政策上面如何反映在預算上面非常重要我們不能一直歪打,我們不是要採取防衛式所以我希望說針對中國武力威脅的這個心腹大患在外交政策上面在這個國防政策上面應該更有全盤的思維"},{"start":21968.575,"end":21975.517,"text":"過去我們在民主運動發展的過程我們從外徵主權內徵民主的過程到現在我們在"},{"start":21992.793,"end":22020.476,"text":"地緣政治的戰略地位在國際產業鏈的供應者的地位我們現在要維持的是讓台灣能夠和平穩定繁榮發展這個是我們更大一個目標在這個目標底下當然我會願意看到全國大家用這樣的共同方向當作團結的力量那也讓國際社會看到我們有自我保護自己的能力也願意負起國際的責任這個才是今天卓家最重要的發展之道"},{"start":22023.458,"end":22050.087,"text":"對界限之急有沒有耐心這可能長時間會對我們造成困擾我說內憂的部分外患的部分我們要有很明確的主張、策略、戰略來對付台灣的心腹大患所以應該有一個全盤的策略怎麼樣讓國人安心、國人放心台灣絕對可以保衛民主自由、主權獨立"},{"start":22051.26,"end":22072.246,"text":"身旁兩位部長都是國防外交最重要的掌握者那他們對於國家的主權跟國家的安全都會列為最重要的國家目標一定要讓國人安心、放心而且要保衛國家的決心我談到一個個案就是立陶宛最近國會大選國會大選內閣改組"},{"start":22077.367,"end":22103.34,"text":"當然總統在我們代表處的名稱過去跟前總理是不一致的那現任剛當選的總理他跟總統他對台灣是相對在我們代表處的名稱是相對比較保守好,如果內閣改組國會改選產生的新的內閣總理跟總統的對台灣代表處的名稱是一致的"},{"start":22104.505,"end":22105.125,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":22126.139,"end":22128.782,"text":"政府會更迭政策會改變我說的是政府已經更迭了"},{"start":22141.753,"end":22163.688,"text":"那我們會不會被迫更名,我們有沒有相關的因應之道?當然,針對各種可能透過政府跟政府之間的管道,我們都會保持很好的溝通。目前就是,其實這也涉及到立陶宛,雖然有提到"},{"start":22164.58,"end":22190.872,"text":"社畜名稱中文英文的問題不過他也是一個有自己主權的國家他也不會在中國的脅迫之下就做出什麼決定那我們大家盡一切的努力去溝通希望能夠維持這個當時兩國同意的這個我對你有信心我也對卓院長有信心我們一定可以把這名稱保留但是要做很多的努力是"},{"start":22192.715,"end":22196.338,"text":"地方財政收支已經改善得非常顯著,中央補助地方的金額屢創新高,"},{"start":22209.417,"end":22228.484,"text":"你看這個從蔡總統到賴總統改善了地方的財務結構讓地方政府長短期的債都逐年下降對地方政府補助逐年增加明年會創新高到1兆151億"},{"start":22231.581,"end":22247.882,"text":"好,在這種現況之下,地方補助昨天增加,財務狀況也明顯的改善。院長跟部長,您對當前這個國民黨主導的財化法的修正,你們認為有它的急迫性跟必要性嗎?"},{"start":22249.679,"end":22273.317,"text":"是 跟委員報告首先就急迫性來講也就是說就如同這張表格所呈現的地方的財政已經大幅改善從原來的短處到去年已經有剩餘648億換言之地方的財政在中央大幅的挹注之下以及各自的努力已經有大幅的改善就換言之他的財政狀況是不錯的這是這一點"},{"start":22275.399,"end":22279.303,"text":"二、目前來說沒有必要性,沒有急迫性,現狀是非常好的,趨勢也不錯趨勢也不錯"},{"start":22296.9,"end":22297.761,"text":"所以中央財源會更加窘迫過去任何的計畫性補助"},{"start":22314.652,"end":22316.714,"text":"為什麼一個反對黨會製造國家的危機呢"},{"start":22344.807,"end":22345.247,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":22368.427,"end":22391.772,"text":"委員長,投資台灣三大方案必須要有轉型的規劃。要怎麼轉型?我想,包括產業的轉型,還有過去是在台投資的外商是不是可以是目前只有在台投資?那未來對全球的外商是不是也可以來台灣投資?有相關的政策的補貼,像美國、日本"},{"start":22392.881,"end":22396.504,"text":"報告委員我們這個投資台灣辦公室有在進行對全球的企業我們都有在招商"},{"start":22423.464,"end":22426.409,"text":"那半導體的部分全球外商都有我們現在就是針對這個半導體AI五大信貸產業都對他們發出這個"},{"start":22438.447,"end":22438.907,"text":"麻煩請交通部長備選"},{"start":22460.526,"end":22461.747,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":22480.905,"end":22506.139,"text":"前瞻只到2.0沒有繼續推出3.0或是類前瞻計畫相關的後續的軌道建設都會受到嚴重影響以這個高雄市高雄市捷運紅線為什麼做得成就是因為有前瞻建設的軌道建設經費那我們現在捷運紫線也送到教研部可行性研究我想部長跟院長都支持但它經費高達將近2000億"},{"start":22509.111,"end":22509.632,"text":"沒有前瞻之後"},{"start":22525.374,"end":22554.193,"text":"這個交通建設他可能就必須要回歸到公務預算那每個地方政府在提出計畫之後他之前他必須提出完整的財務規劃那對地方政府來看都是一個很沉重的壓力每一個地方政府都沉重的壓力有壓力當然會有動力但是你動力端看他的財源是不足以成為足夠的動力一定需要類似前瞻3.0的計畫來致應所以我希望是不是從財源來思考"},{"start":22554.793,"end":22555.994,"text":"謝謝邱志偉委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。"},{"start":22585.253,"end":22596.959,"text":"報告委員會現在一場二樓旁聽在增加臺北市百齡高中國中部的老師跟同學歡迎大家歡迎再接下來請登記第26號徐欣盈委員質詢"},{"start":22619.278,"end":22619.558,"text":"徐委員好"},{"start":22632.618,"end":22657.994,"text":"主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻"},{"start":22662.492,"end":22683.654,"text":"就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實我們在"},{"start":22685.649,"end":22706.921,"text":"前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術"},{"start":22709.102,"end":22731.254,"text":"可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來"},{"start":22735.896,"end":22754.383,"text":"本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的"},{"start":22755.023,"end":22782.88,"text":"那我們的前瞻基礎建設當然本席也可以理解包括我過去也來不及參與您也是才剛上任前瞻基礎建設這個特別預算已經第5期了明年度的第5期了可是我們在過去前瞻基礎建設裡面都沒有看到這些的項目所以我們希望這種軟體軟實力的這種基礎我們可以趁早來做那院長您在位的一天您都可以來努力可以嗎不錯"},{"start":22784.696,"end":22813.258,"text":"委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑"},{"start":22814.608,"end":22837.771,"text":"那這些特別預算是不是他其實都可以在常態的預算裡面編列就可以不需要特別嘛因為他變我們的特別預算都變成這個特別隨便還有這個常態化特別預算常態化現在就是大家最詬病的所以其實我們的特別預算"},{"start":22838.837,"end":22857.303,"text":"可以直接就編列在年度的預算裡面除非有特別的我們才真的特別編出來兩點跟委員報告第一就是前瞻之後所以賴總統提出五大信賴產業他其中的半導體AI等等就是往軟體設計要開始去做更多的研發第二個部分我們今年除了"},{"start":22858.312,"end":22880.959,"text":"最後的前瞻基礎建設跟國防部的預算特別預算之後我們沒有新編任何的特別預算就是要回到正常預算的本身用公預算跟大約來進行對年度預算的審核我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制接著第二點本席想要就我們國營事業"},{"start":22883.32,"end":22903.912,"text":"一笑不張特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果"},{"start":22904.712,"end":22924.725,"text":"這個非常值得高興但是呢本席要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢"},{"start":22930.348,"end":22955.828,"text":"這個問題我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水所以我們大家也都覺得台電、中油、台水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望院長一定要"},{"start":22956.817,"end":22957.037,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":22975.32,"end":22994.946,"text":"經營的活落起來所以我包括經濟部、郭部長還有我們的國發會的劉主委他們過去來自產業都有比較跟我們公務傳統院長本席是請問你們你們有沒有整個執政團隊有沒有想說我國營事業我就是要我不能都一直虧損我對不起民眾啊"},{"start":22995.586,"end":22997.81,"text":"本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。"},{"start":23008.755,"end":23027.468,"text":"我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是"},{"start":23030.45,"end":23050.818,"text":"我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的"},{"start":23051.513,"end":23052.554,"text":"國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油"},{"start":23081.018,"end":23100.731,"text":"中油煉製事業部的採購弊案、113年破貨的台電的大林電廠採購弊案、近期的台鹽綠能公司弊案、還有台電的綠能弊案等等不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是"},{"start":23101.977,"end":23127.243,"text":"在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心我覺得當事人應該永遠面對社會來另外綠能犯罪的事情我們多次提出要求能夠做多方的合作來針對綠能犯罪我們談未來這些已經被查出來的我們未來"},{"start":23131.824,"end":23155.928,"text":"我們卓院長帶領的行政院團隊有沒有覺得我絕對要給民眾耳目一新不要一直都發生這麼多第一個就是對綠能犯罪我們要全力的遏止有不法我們就救出來對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面我們開過很多次的會做過一些實際的計畫我希望從檢警調單位能夠一一的下去執行還有"},{"start":23156.937,"end":23161.501,"text":"第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%"},{"start":23180.278,"end":23192.509,"text":"在1990年代,結果我們再比較一下馬政府跟蔡政府馬政府時代那8年,教育經費佔GDP比也有5點多到6"},{"start":23194.11,"end":23215.501,"text":"但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年"},{"start":23220.123,"end":23235.801,"text":"如果沒有特別提高大概就是也是4點多本席想說的是我們台灣已經少子化上次在這邊質詢的時候我們的出生人口數從30幾萬掉到10幾萬現在只有13萬"},{"start":23239.892,"end":23241.293,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":23268.053,"end":23279.759,"text":"國家未來的主人翁啊所以我們的教育經費院長本席希望我們可以增加再增加佔整個GDP再增加1%可不可以"},{"start":23280.559,"end":23306.141,"text":"我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是"},{"start":23307.005,"end":23307.265,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":23323.996,"end":23353.071,"text":"而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%"},{"start":23354.874,"end":23381.095,"text":"新加的幅度會有多少,我想應該要衡量未來整個需要。那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲,乃至於高職、大學,我們都有更多的新的機制之外,我們也對整個學校、老舊教室,甚至廁所的改建,我們都編了幾百億的預算。這些我們知道,都在那個4點多趴裡面,但是還是很不足,所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴。"},{"start":23381.595,"end":23382.395,"text":"再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解"},{"start":23402.643,"end":23424.731,"text":"整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎"},{"start":23427.725,"end":23450.686,"text":"移轉性的支付我們逐年上漲從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億明年的預算是7600多億那再來其中最主要最大比例的就是社福支出那社福支出他就表示"},{"start":23451.266,"end":23472.179,"text":"你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體那所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨"},{"start":23473.2,"end":23487.383,"text":"所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決"},{"start":23488.61,"end":23488.89,"text":"院長本席的時間有限"},{"start":23503.9,"end":23505.661,"text":"本席在這裡提供一個想法"},{"start":23534.12,"end":23534.681,"text":"接下來我們請登記第27號郭國文委員諮詢"},{"start":23573.82,"end":23577.664,"text":"委員長好 麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢卓院長好 卓院長您上任以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題"},{"start":23596.567,"end":23621.583,"text":"我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達100"},{"start":23623.044,"end":23640.429,"text":"二十六兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是十六億之多而這十六億之多的部分是調心而來的第一個 它的金融業的快速發展第二個 我跟部長說明一下深格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融"},{"start":23643.092,"end":23672.194,"text":"所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上 一個是20以下可是交給這一個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司"},{"start":23672.634,"end":23700.109,"text":"金融管理公司現在誰在管?經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙、金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務"},{"start":23701.904,"end":23714.3,"text":"實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆"},{"start":23715.573,"end":23734.353,"text":"還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":23735.384,"end":23737.145,"text":"有沒有需要申請?有沒有需要申請?有沒有需要申請?"},{"start":23760.74,"end":23760.76,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":23785.458,"end":23802.943,"text":"主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足,未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住他說金融監督管理委員會"},{"start":23804.183,"end":23824.916,"text":"監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此我請院長啊"},{"start":23829.079,"end":23846.477,"text":"來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關外交部長您加入您部長麻煩"},{"start":23848.007,"end":23848.167,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":23876.97,"end":23897.119,"text":"我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等"},{"start":23897.699,"end":23919.766,"text":"部長辛苦除了聲援外債的聲聞之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊"},{"start":23920.814,"end":23939.248,"text":"你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就是可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家"},{"start":23940.37,"end":23968.113,"text":"不處理那你放在那邊還要靠別人那不是很可惜這一點我提醒一下部長第二個部長我再就教於您的部分你知道我們在參加這個CPTPP當中的12個國家當中有一個國家對外公開大大大的講說他支持中國加入CPTPP這個國家就叫智利可是我稍微估計一下五大受險公司啊單純就智利的國債跟公司債啊我們在那邊就"},{"start":23968.874,"end":23969.735,"text":"主委、部長,你們看法怎麼樣?"},{"start":23985.31,"end":23986.731,"text":"主委掌管金融業"},{"start":24015.61,"end":24018.891,"text":"我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱"},{"start":24044.116,"end":24046.157,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議"},{"start":24059.765,"end":24060.266,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":24079.599,"end":24079.759,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":24100.954,"end":24125.112,"text":"可是在投入工件的部分呢我們看到有兆元的投入工件的部分這個兆元受險基金拿回來投入工件有什麼好處呢院長、主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到工件預算工件預算要排啊遙遙無期啊 對不對"},{"start":24127.193,"end":24154.683,"text":"而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同那院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯"},{"start":24155.896,"end":24173.173,"text":"我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長"},{"start":24175.131,"end":24191.007,"text":"我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理"},{"start":24192.148,"end":24210.354,"text":"第三、政府勇氣加速時機到位要處理如果用這三種方式結合聯合開發模式才有可能把臺南捷運變後發能夠先知院長我期待您的回顧我們現在會把如何促進民生參與"},{"start":24212.268,"end":24228.985,"text":"讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式沒有錯不要停在一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃"},{"start":24230.566,"end":24258.41,"text":"臺南最快最快也要到7年之後才會看到結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考"},{"start":24258.55,"end":24261.411,"text":"可以我們跟地方政府跟台南市政府一起來溝通,看誰把後面這個拉到前面去"},{"start":24281.601,"end":24305.12,"text":"一來前面有所規劃的路網能夠透過後發先至其他開發手段取代預算的方式來資金到位然後趕快能夠讓整個捷運能夠興建二來的部分呢計畫的部分能夠提早進行有沒有可能好謝謝部長部長您先等一下齁我還有一個問題要請教你最近台南市政府齁在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費"},{"start":24307.322,"end":24327.095,"text":"台南車站我每次都看到台南車站非常的痛心啊古蹟破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫"},{"start":24337.23,"end":24357.94,"text":"可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中的前方有一個叫做"},{"start":24358.638,"end":24359.318,"text":"沒有道理嘛!"},{"start":24387.116,"end":24412.181,"text":"那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了"},{"start":24412.961,"end":24414.481,"text":"地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府"},{"start":24443.141,"end":24444.662,"text":"因為300的時候到400,400中央文化部給了多少錢?"},{"start":24470.452,"end":24471.633,"text":"謝謝郭國文委員的質詢。謝謝主委院長及各部會首長的備詢。"},{"start":24498.527,"end":24524.012,"text":"接下來,我們請登記第28號,邱政軍委員質詢。謝謝院長。我們有請我們的卓院長。"},{"start":24527.342,"end":24527.929,"text":"麻煩再請左院長備詢"},{"start":24540.895,"end":24561.07,"text":"首先我在這邊先感謝院長在3個月25號特別撥控到苗栗視察那非常感謝我們院長對於苗栗的關心在這邊我有個問題想請教我們的院長根據2022年到訪苗栗南莊的人次大概是8萬9千多人"},{"start":24562.711,"end":24579.591,"text":"那到今年2024年1月到10月已經超過32萬人次來過南莊可見南莊的人文景觀山水非常的吸引人那觀光持續在發展當中其中也帶動餐飲業跟我們的旅宿業"},{"start":24580.531,"end":24601.643,"text":"現在南庄面臨一個問題就是污水的部分沒有辦法處理我記得當天院長到苗栗的時候我們現場有跟我們的院長陳情其實這個部分這個南庄污水下水道這個建制在110年其實在109年就已經同意了那110年1月已經送案審查到現在那一直"},{"start":24602.623,"end":24603.044,"text":"請問院長還有內政部可以幫忙嗎?"},{"start":24623.831,"end":24639.039,"text":"報告委員我的了解是原規劃污水處理廠的用地有一些爭議那現在已經重新的有修正計畫最近幾天好像還有送到內政部裡面來所以院長是同意協助了嗎"},{"start":24639.859,"end":24660.841,"text":"國度署現在正在看這個事情,部長應該跟國度署這邊。我跟邱委員報告一下,那個苗栗縣政府已經在11月1號,也就是前兩天呢,重新提送,就是原來是污水量的計算有問題,因為我們是重新再做一個南莊的污水下水道。對啦,你們計算的方式是,呃,它的人口數嘛。對。那其實它遊客是非常多的啦。"},{"start":24661.741,"end":24686.936,"text":"我希望把這點也考量進去我們已經送到國土署我們在國土署審查完以後我們會按照優先順序跟財務的可行性就來提供這方面的經費上面的需求謝謝部長 謝謝院長我再請教院長美國總統大選現在已經倒數計時我們上次台灣押寶好像押錯了這一次我們比較謹慎一點"},{"start":24688.699,"end":24693.026,"text":"我請問一下,我們院長有沒有做好兩方面不管誰當選,我們台灣應該因應的措施?"},{"start":24697.613,"end":24719.485,"text":"謝謝委員這個提醒我們一直都有在注意雖然我們認為臺美關係長期的發展應該是健康永續的發展但是兩黨或是兩位候選人在選舉之中所提出的不同的講法我們還是密切的注意我們相信未來在經過這個民選總統產生之後政權交接之後還是會進行"},{"start":24720.956,"end":24743.664,"text":"政規管道當中,我們雙方之間既有的一些交涉,那我們會強化保障我們自己跟美國之間的權益。你個人有沒有比較希望誰當選?你希望誰當選?我們自己的選舉都不需要別人來對我們評斷,我們也不應該在這裡,但是我相信這是一個民主神職的選舉。其實不管是誰當選,我們不能期待美國永遠會挺台灣,就是無條件的挺台灣。"},{"start":24744.784,"end":24762.82,"text":"我記得川普有講過一句話我們台灣是晶片小偷針對這小偷說我們院長好像在我們議場這邊有講過就是說不同意我想請問院長我們有沒有向美方提出抗議或者是澄清"},{"start":24763.677,"end":24764.097,"text":"那我們請部長您說明一下"},{"start":24780.402,"end":24806.22,"text":"是跟委員報告不過有關於這個晶片我想台美是互補的合作的關係那個各種專家還有媒體都已經說明事實上我們台灣是製造方面但是事實上在設計還有整個晶片的產業是美國還是產值是最大的所以他們的專家還有媒體也都出來說明"},{"start":24807.24,"end":24809.162,"text":"如果川普當選,我們台灣有沒有準備好要繳保護費?"},{"start":24812.822,"end":24836.908,"text":"最好的保護費有沒有準備要交我們本來就是自我防衛我們本來就是應該要提升我們自我防衛這個就是一個趨勢所以過去8年來的國盤預算也幾乎不太一樣未來也會持續這個不太一樣啦所以我講的保護費是無條件的就是請他來保護我們買武器歸買武器提升我們的武力裝備那是一件事"},{"start":24837.895,"end":24860.432,"text":"那我覺得我們是有準備,如果川普當選,我們是已經準備好要要付美國的保護費嗎?保護費這是一種說法,但我想美國是基於台灣關係法六項保證,他是要依法來確保就是美台關係,那也確保這個台海的和平跟穩定。我覺得不管誰當總統,這個還是要"},{"start":24863.114,"end":24863.334,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":24878.73,"end":24904.648,"text":"那當然這是分析師講的啦也還沒發生我希望政府應該現在就要你妥應應的對策然後選後呢好積極的向美國提出我們都有密切的注意而且妥善的因應的方案不過我也跟委員澄清一下沒有什麼上次選舉說押寶說我們其實在大家都知道啦那個是誤傳我也利用這個機會澄清一下我再請教院長"},{"start":24905.669,"end":24934.414,"text":"那我今年預估稅率將超徵2000億那連續四年大幅的超徵另外稅出方面明年中央政府總預算比去年成長約兩成結果客家委員會的預算不增反減那今年已經比去年少了10%明年預算還是短少了0.7那還要因應物價通膨及公職人員的調薪實際減幅更大感覺我們政府對我們客家鄉親不是很重視"},{"start":24936.988,"end":24954.817,"text":"政府對所有族群、所有人民在福利制度照顧上面以及整個...那為什麼會減少?你部長減少的原因是什麼?金額是增加的啊。金額沒有增加。這個金額是有一點增加吧。113年度啊。他調回去也比去年少啊。也比去年少啊。"},{"start":24958.123,"end":24972.47,"text":"主席,主委說明一下。主委,您說說看。有,有,有。我企圖這樣合格詳情的說法,就要從嚴重的說。我第一,當然一味難,但是我企圖這樣合格,立法委員會的創傷,我一聽到行政院就爭氣。我希望說,這樣合格的VMV,就叫做做過這樣合格詳情。"},{"start":24978.676,"end":24992.854,"text":"報告委員,明年我們預算有比今年度及11年嚴重,行政院有部分年度及11年,也要增加的部分。但是比那個前年還要小一點,我們在那邊的主委做得比較小,雙座主委比較大。"},{"start":24995.177,"end":25018.073,"text":"不要,不要有大小言,之前的主委給的經費比較多一點,不要說我們古主委來了,我們本期的預算比較少,這樣去當派做事情嗎?好不好?有,有想法啦,跟委員報告有想法,114年度應該的前瞻預算有夠多啦,多經驗的預算就有夠大一些,所以明年"},{"start":25020.494,"end":25044.089,"text":"院長,你持續關注這個問題,以後在編列預算的時候,能夠多照顧我們客家鄉親一點。主委剛剛說,之前是一個前瞻預算,那我們以後會想用均衡台灣的方式。我現在心中最想做的一件事,就台灣還有幾個縣是財政能力不好的,我們如何讓他能夠強化財政力,提高他的競爭力,這個才是政府該做的事。"},{"start":25044.409,"end":25070.359,"text":"所以苗栗你要特別照顧阿好不好因為苗栗是非常缺錢的好謝謝我們主委那我在想齁在講齁總預算我們有三個爭議的議題啦齁我實話說我在報告裡找不到答案除了禁法補償齁您上週在答詢說有條件的狀況下可以增加預算或用第二預備金那健保點值主決議是要0.95嘛齁那你們說把總額提高了"},{"start":25074.173,"end":25083.211,"text":"公糧收購調漲5元,農業部卻說要一級二轉3加3我看來看去,所以是拒絕編列的意思"},{"start":25084.397,"end":25112.494,"text":"不是,我們在健保點值方面我們認為現在整個加起來增加了712億那我們努力的讓他健保點值合理化的方向去前進這個是始終不變的目標那麼農業部我也期待他在一級二轉三加三這個政策之外在明年度我期待農業部提出一個新措施新作為能夠更有效直接的讓農民感受到這個我會要求農業部"},{"start":25113.234,"end":25114.375,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":25133.592,"end":25134.192,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":25154.339,"end":25180.337,"text":"講話的餘地才能要求他們把更好的品質的這個公糧能夠繳到我們這個農糧我們有兩種方式一個是公糧它有特定的對象那它維持現在26塊另外我們也鼓勵其他的70%往民糧這個品牌的稻米品種去品牌去走讓它能夠優質化那這兩個要同時併在但是明年我是希望我們有一套新的作為啦更清楚的跟農民做對話實質幫助農民"},{"start":25184.48,"end":25208.861,"text":"院長您的背後是賴清德總統我們立法院背後是人民你們沒有編列依法編列預算而且最近聽到的這個媒體地方也好還情緒勒索我們的這個地方的首長但你不要忘了這些提案的這些我們國民黨這些提案的這些案子民進黨都有份他不是說以前沒有提過所以"},{"start":25209.682,"end":25221.18,"text":"民進黨可以打理民進黨但是我們不能背叛人民所以我希望我們這個院長應該很清楚我們法律案跟預算案的差別"},{"start":25222.386,"end":25240.308,"text":"那行政院必須要通過依照通過的法律編列預算你也很清楚憲法第70條講的是你們提出的預算案立法院不能要求增加這是沒有錯但是這是我們立法院通過的一些法案我希望行政院能夠遵守好不好所以預算法第71條說"},{"start":25242.503,"end":25263.416,"text":"立法院對的法律案在增加稅數的時候要徵詢行政院也要指出預算、彌補資金之來源那這個我們希望以後都踐行這樣的程序互相尊重憲法的權利我希望你講過的就是嚴守紀律、惡例不可循、不可開所以我希望你們也不要在我們這個部分來掀開惡例好不好"},{"start":25269.377,"end":25298.449,"text":"我們互相尊重好的例子來建立起來就讓大家往這個方向這個原則跟法律的規定走那接下來我再請問一下日前我們的總統賴清德主持賴清德總統主持全社會防衛任性委員會的首場會議要擴充40萬可持名利那內政部也證實未來大規模震災時要將黑熊學院那邊"},{"start":25299.958,"end":25316.003,"text":"這是有沒有這一回事?全社會防衛任性需要省個社會力的參與那為什麼是黑熊學院?有準備的團體未來都是可能合作的對象要給這個黑熊學院"},{"start":25317.159,"end":25337.011,"text":"有公務預算用這個名義給他們嗎?報告委員,我想這個都是謠言。到目前為止我們的可視名利的這個不管是預算也好,或者是教育訓練的規模,都是由我們的警消、疫警疫消以及相關的替代役的這個訓練課程。所以黑熊學院有嗎?所以是謠言就對了,沒有這件事。現在沒有,以後會不會有?"},{"start":25340.93,"end":25342.151,"text":"因為有需要公務預算的民間團體太多了,到時候你會補不完。"},{"start":25365.681,"end":25394.994,"text":"像我們的救難協會等等,他們每次平時在救災救難都是跑第一線的,他們也沒有公務預算,只有一些裝備。這些我們都非常感謝,我們希望他們用志工的精神來協助有關救災的工作。好,請部長回去。那我接下來請問一下我們央行的楊總裁,房價越打越高。要不要請中央銀行總裁備詢?銀行總裁到了嗎?沒有。"},{"start":25396.184,"end":25416.67,"text":"中央銀行總裁有參加嗎?時間暫停。您是要問中央銀行總裁嗎?不然就問我好了,問院長好了。我請問院長,房價越打越高,帶動通膨,人民水深火熱。我請問,央行打草房號已經打了4年了,為什麼沒有效果?"},{"start":25417.517,"end":25418.378,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議"},{"start":25436.474,"end":25436.854,"text":"打番無效"},{"start":25466.125,"end":25482.038,"text":"謝謝邱振興委員質詢。謝謝卓院長備詢。抱怨會現在在議場二樓旁聽來自新北林口高中老師及同學,熱烈歡迎。在接下來我們請登記29號武力華委員質詢。"},{"start":25499.757,"end":25504.122,"text":"謝謝主席韓院長。有請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。委員長好。現在是11月,稱之為年底。"},{"start":25520.979,"end":25547.207,"text":"您終於可以來報告明年度的中央總預算謝謝也感謝我們立法院特別安排了備質詢讓我們可以在這個地方再一次的討論當然這一次備受爭議的禁法補償金的發放其實已經在這兩個月有非常多非常多的討論"},{"start":25548.729,"end":25567.166,"text":"可是因為我們今天要特別的來關心到底明年能不能夠如實發放所以我想快速的就是代院長來回顧一下這個立法的過程這個《進法補償條例》在4月17號排進了內政委員會"},{"start":25573.305,"end":25597.899,"text":"用一天的時間尋答逐條審查,審查完略。那我記得在我們的結論上還有後續的討論上大家不斷的提到是不是可以等520的新內閣團隊就職上任之後我們再來做協商可是"},{"start":25598.663,"end":25619.756,"text":"我們超前部署。在5月2號的時候,委員會安排了協商。當時我們提案的委員們都有參加,但是各黨團並沒有判員。那一天的協商結論,召委也很辛苦,逐一的去各黨團找各黨邊要簽名。"},{"start":25621.485,"end":25648.398,"text":"那在隔天的時候呢出現了一個很聳動的圖卡上面寫著說民進黨團拒簽協商結論那這張圖卡呢引起非常大的討論跟誤會那麼我們看一下那張圖卡的場景它其實就是在這裡就是一張照片講了什麼不得而知"},{"start":25650.228,"end":25673.98,"text":"實際上,黨邊如果沒有簽名,照理說應該要請院長主持協商,但是在5月14日的時候直接在院會二讀。因為還沒有協商,所以原本也沒有排這個案進來,但是在5月31日增列提案作為院會討論。"},{"start":25676.465,"end":25688.265,"text":"那麼6月4號看起來就要拼三讀了所以在那個時候就草草安排了一個協商然後下午就三讀通過了"},{"start":25688.956,"end":25704.994,"text":"我作為一個提案委員三讀通過我非常的高興可是我們可以看到在這個過程中確實是有很多的瑕疵舉個例子來講在6月4號黨團協商那一天我特別調出"},{"start":25706.195,"end":25719.77,"text":"科建民總召公報上的文字記錄,他寫著說:「30年來我在這個地方,所有的法案、預算協商的程序,一定是委員會審查完畢,然後委員會協商。"},{"start":25721.452,"end":25749.151,"text":"委員會協商各黨黨編都簽名的話直接送院會如果沒有簽名就交給院長主持協商所以院長的最主要功能在這個地方能夠調和頂難能夠把朝野議事爭議全部的來處理過去30年來我們在這個地方從來就是這樣的一個遊戲規則和流程所以我很可以理解"},{"start":25750.051,"end":25769.9,"text":"卓院長您我這些日子以來不斷不斷的聽到您就是一直講一句話立法院跟行政院就是要來互相的對話要坐下來要彼此尊重也要尊重我們行政院的行政權"},{"start":25771.144,"end":25785.359,"text":"我看起來這樣的一個互相沒有尊重其實是頻頻的發生所以呢我在前幾天有看到我們立法院的老院長王金平他也出來說話了"},{"start":25786.88,"end":25811.452,"text":"他整個話的內容其實就是告訴我們協商在立法院的重要性他的爭議就是要真誠對話找到共識因為我們很清楚知道真正的民主國家不是只有點人頭只有點人頭不是真民主還必須要有所謂的協商、溝通、共識"},{"start":25812.677,"end":25839.873,"text":"所以院長我爬梳這一段歷程我只是要交代我真的可以理解你這些日子不斷不斷講的那些話就是彼此尊重大家要坐下來談我不曉得說有哪些人來找過您談委員是其中之一是那還有誰當然還有很多委員朝野黨團的委員都有是"},{"start":25841.015,"end":25863.521,"text":"那我在這裡就是想要請教院長因為我很無奈啊為什麼我很無奈其實我是一個很溫和的人但是呢我有一個底線因為我認為作為人民選出來的民意代表就跟我們的行政機關父母官一樣其實人民是我們的主人"},{"start":25864.451,"end":25888.786,"text":"所以當我看到族人惶惶不安互相的謾罵對立的時候其實我會很焦急很難過所以您應該知道我面對這些很難解釋的問題我有時候急了我到處跟大家去做保證承諾請安心如果明年真的不是一公頃六萬如實發放"},{"start":25899.674,"end":25918.829,"text":"我要表達的是因為我非常的相信我們中華民國政府怎麼會發不出錢呢我們要相信我們的政府相信我們的法律那如果一旦真的沒有辦法兌現說實在的那我這個立委其實也可以不用當了"},{"start":25919.684,"end":25928.817,"text":"我只是要表現表達我們要相信政府相信我們的法律所以對我來講這是一個假議題"},{"start":25930.267,"end":25957.608,"text":"很多都是錯假的訊息那我想要請教一下我們常常聽到的一個錯假資訊行政院堅持不甩立法只願意撥4萬但是呢我們可以看到這是總統公告的啊原住民保留地淨法補償條例上面寫得很清楚中華民國114年期每年每公頃新台幣6萬元院長沒有錯吧"},{"start":25960.122,"end":25977.252,"text":"總統公布的法律內容確實如此確實如此嘛齁那我想要來問一下齁因為還有很多關於預算編列不足這樣的錯假資訊那因為我們的預算法的主管機關是我們的主計總處解釋權在他們那邊所以我也請主計長"},{"start":25990.748,"end":26019.025,"text":"主計長好我們有一個錯假之訊也是漫天飛預算不足啦明年會領不到啦那我有跟原民會來去索資這張圖表是原保地進法補償他的一個各年度的預決算一覽表那請教一下主計長我看到的是公務預算重發基金的搭配編列"},{"start":26020.25,"end":26041.09,"text":"那有一些年度呢其實最後的決算其實重發基金的編列其實也花不完但是呢像112、111就算是最後他的決算重發基金的編列不足超支也照樣都領得到那請教一下主計長齁我這樣的解釋正確嗎"},{"start":26045.12,"end":26071.473,"text":"是,原則上在112年之前公務預算和基金預算是各辦負擔那在113年度是全部由國庫來撥補是,那即便是超支也會發得出來對不對?原則上我們會按政策來撥補基金那如果說明年一定發得出來對嗎?這個我們配合政策來協助是,那我再請教一下"},{"start":26072.472,"end":26082.47,"text":"那現在有說原住民綜合發展基金要破產喔主計長還有聽到說無法收回基金不可以拿來發說這個是違法的"},{"start":26085.478,"end":26109.057,"text":"所以我調了一下公文這個是105年主計總署發給原民會的公文上面載明你們建議原民會在發放的時候用公務預算跟基金各辦編列那當然你們也不會亂講話所以你們也有提到說這是依據原住民綜合發展基金的管用辦法"},{"start":26109.838,"end":26133.26,"text":"那這個東西載入可以做土地補償是在民國96年寫進來的以前沒有96年寫進來但是是105年開始發放還沒有發進法補償的時候基金就已經把用途載民可以做土地補償金發放好那這個呢我想"},{"start":26134.221,"end":26151.994,"text":"在民國96年當時的原民會的副主委呢是非常資深的立委我們的鄭天才委員也是非常資深的公務員我覺得這些我們都不容置疑那我們來看一下因為他只是辦法那我們來看一下"},{"start":26153.155,"end":26175.704,"text":"這些所謂的不可收回的項目我隨便念幾個像是原住民族地區溫泉資源開發經營利用規劃輔導及獎勵的支出促進原住民族部落文化發展的支出原住民族就業基金的支出等等等大概裡面屬於支出類的有4567891011好幾項"},{"start":26179.565,"end":26203.261,"text":"所以這些都是不可收回的項目所以不可以用基金去發嗎?主計長因為很多人都不懂一般基金是這個是作業基金他是有付出說可以收回但是他並沒有他是就整體來講並沒有針對個別的項目那我們一般進化補償的部分他是整體撥到基金去執行然後由國庫來撥補"},{"start":26205.883,"end":26222.591,"text":"所以他整個一個是在基金裡運作是從很久以前就一直執行到現在所以基金是可以來去發放這些當然有人去質疑那只是辦法所以呢他的法源是在哪裡呢?原基法的21條裡面有寫就是"},{"start":26226.82,"end":26245.567,"text":"提撥一定比例納入原住民族綜合發展基金作為回饋或補償經費。所以我說到這邊,主計長有沒有違法的問題?目前我們都是依照相關的法令來做啦。有沒有違法嗎?有或沒有嗎?"},{"start":26246.772,"end":26248.012,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":26263.977,"end":26289.218,"text":"反經復出仍可收回而非與營業者為作業基金所以這個部分不斷不斷的拿來討論但是我們剛才整個聽完了我想主計長你應該解釋的很清楚了也確認了這句話的一個概念我們來看一下因為反經復出仍可收回是在出"},{"start":26289.778,"end":26292.461,"text":"四、本基金的來源由政府循預算程序之撥款。"},{"start":26315.481,"end":26336.477,"text":"是,所以他的法源也是在原基法的第21條,受限制所生之損失,應由該主管機關寬列預算補償之。所以他是會一直撥補,而且所有的預算,公務預算,他就是必須被撥補到基金,由基金來發放,對嗎?"},{"start":26338.318,"end":26347.351,"text":"沒錯吧!對嘛!就算是公務預算也是編到基金裡面,對嘛!對!所以重發基金有破產的問題嗎?"},{"start":26349.597,"end":26375.856,"text":"原則上如果有組不組的部分我們會來做協助那最後我想要請教一下院長因為大家都會說行政院雙標4萬就不違憲了6萬就違憲了執政黨提案就不違憲了在野黨就違憲不好意思我就是有提案所以我想這個也是錯假資訊那我覺得院長您自始至終其實態度都很一致不論是報宅"},{"start":26376.957,"end":26405.689,"text":"或者是你今天的這個總預算報告書裡面都寫得很清楚就是憲法第70條我認為你在意的就是要恪守憲法的架構權力分立的原則行政權、立法權彼此的來尊重所以我是特別要想說因為你已經有在報章有揭露就是徵詢行政院意見指明彌補資金來源然後呢你有說停止提案修正其他的方法"},{"start":26406.249,"end":26419.094,"text":"我這樣子講有沒有違背你的意思?謝謝委員的了解真的是如果能夠在憲法精神下在預算法跟財政紀律法的規定底下兩院建立一個互信的共識互相尊重"},{"start":26477.285,"end":26486.148,"text":"我相信這都是因為院長不尊重原住民族這些千百年來在土地、山林所受到的權益的窩困這個我們都很緊控所以在這個部分我就是要讓族人再一次的了解好謝謝謝謝吳立華委員的質詢謝謝左院長、各部會首長的備詢"},{"start":26492.301,"end":26513.414,"text":"接下來我們下面請登記第30號謝依鳳委員質詢。謝謝韓院長。我想要請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。都議定好。"},{"start":26522.116,"end":26525.945,"text":"謝偉雲好我有很多很多醫生的部分要跟你說的"},{"start":26526.988,"end":26555.777,"text":"因為像法官有很多問題0到6歲國家養0到2歲小朋友有10個鄉鎮現在都沒有托嬰中心我們需要2點多億然後今年因為憲法法庭的判決導致了代理教師他們值錢的年資需要增加所有的經費大概是什麼"},{"start":26556.377,"end":26583.195,"text":"光彰化線就需要八千萬到一億還有非常多過去在前瞻裡面我們要改善交通停車的這個部分那未來會不會繼續編河美就需要因為它是人口密集人口成長的區域那未來可能需要相關的交通建設"},{"start":26584.312,"end":26585.093,"text":"美國很高興在選總統"},{"start":26603.51,"end":26628.845,"text":"他們在選總統是不是?前幾天外交部的吳次長他說吳志忠、吳次長一共他very worried請問他在擔憂的是什麼?他這個worry這個字我如果回看他的原文的話他應該是有被這件這個字有被放大了他說我們會"},{"start":26630.373,"end":26646.34,"text":"在選舉過程當中聽到的一些政策,當然是...那反了什麼?他反了什麼?他反了...反了...但是他說未來的事情應該是變化沒辦法...反了美國現在總統未來明天出來,反了是川普總統當選還是賀錦麗總統當選,他會反了什麼?"},{"start":26649.702,"end":26660.172,"text":"這是我們準備,心裡有準備啦心裡我看她的專門講什麼還是要反而說我們的行政院都沒有準備我今天不是要說押寶誰喔而是我們的政府對於未來美國總統是誰當選我們有沒有做好所有相關的規劃"},{"start":26674.406,"end":26681.253,"text":"任何的企業現在都要做好準備。我們當然是一個有準備的國家跟政府。我問你,我們的行政院做好什麼準備?"},{"start":26695.61,"end":26714.475,"text":"這是假設性的問題啦我們現在不能隨便在這裡說一定是誰我當然是說scenario 1嘛我是說scenario 1嘛美國民主選舉之後假設情境一嘛現在算出來是川普總統這樣的話我們的國家做好準備沒有"},{"start":26714.997,"end":26719.739,"text":"我問你我問你我問你明年如果是1以後我們的國防預算要增加成我們GDP的10倍"},{"start":26731.164,"end":26740.092,"text":"的10%目前我們的國防預算是多少?左院長目前我們的國防預算是多少?我知道啊!不管算出來是什麼都要給它供費!不過我要問你的、請教你的是我們的國防預算現在是多少錢?"},{"start":26755.828,"end":26766.931,"text":"我們在明年度編的國防預算只要包括所有的這個特別預算加上對是6470億是不是?是在我們現在目前整體的GPT是多少?應該是2.34之間吧"},{"start":26779.805,"end":26808.007,"text":"對啦,你這個還回答得很正確啊。我給你丟地了。這個很重要的事情。對。阿,不過,我要請教你的是,如果按照川普他的要求,候選人,總統候選人他現在的要求,未來,他如果當選的話,他希望台灣可以增加國防預算到我們GDP的10%。現在GDP,明年預估是多少?"},{"start":26809.028,"end":26813.43,"text":"26兆4千億那10%是多少?2.6兆那我會請教你我們只會在這個地方從事我們自己應該有的採購作業我要問你的是今年我們國家的政府總預算是多少錢?稅入多少?"},{"start":26838.669,"end":26839.31,"text":"三兆一千五百"},{"start":26843.885,"end":26849.748,"text":"跟委員保證不會有那樣的一夕之間的變化而且我們的自己要衡量我們自己的需求這是一個主權國家最起碼有的為國家的態度"},{"start":26872.301,"end":26885.98,"text":"你保證我們的國防預算絕對不會增加委員我想我們都是會依照我們的作戰時需來進行我們必要的國防預算的編列那國防"},{"start":26886.598,"end":26890.422,"text":"會不會讓國防預算排擠到我們的長照預算、我們的社福預算、我們的教育預算、所有的法定支出呢?會不會?"},{"start":26910.82,"end":26922.597,"text":"我們過去幾年不會,未來也絕對不會。在國家經濟會發展的...過去沒有可是明天如果在國際上發生了重大的變數的時候,會不會?"},{"start":26924.057,"end":26950.908,"text":"怎麼保證?要怎麼做到?第一個是假設誰當選的問題第二個是當選之後美國的...你要怎麼樣子保證我們政府的不管是社福、長照還有我們的醫療預算以及教育預算不會被國防預算排擠?你要怎麼保證?你要怎麼保證?明年的預算已經在這裡了只要大院通過我們就照這個通過的預算執行"},{"start":26951.51,"end":26978.844,"text":"我想要知道的是,你要如何維持?明年?後年呢?後年我們在上半年邊概算的時候,我們就會衡量後年的需求。但是不可能有一個非常巨幅的改變,改變到整個我們所有預算依照正式別的比例分配。但是我認為我們要調整的是其他支出的一些調整,可以調整,但是不會像委員所顧慮、擔憂的那個現象。"},{"start":26980.356,"end":26999.682,"text":"我不是在顧慮也不是在擔憂但是明天如果是這樣子的情境發生的時候我們的行政院到底做好了像什麼樣子的準備那還有他在競選的時候說他認為我們的台積電是偷他們的美國的晶片生意"},{"start":27000.302,"end":27023.639,"text":"那有人在說,會不會在他當選之後,要求台積電要從台灣下市,從美國,在美國上市,會不會發生這樣子的問題?會不會?我不知道,我要問你啊,因為這都是,這都是不可知的變數。"},{"start":27025.627,"end":27053.341,"text":"他能回答嗎?還是有其他人?有關委員關心,因為美國是民主的國家,選舉或政黨輪替,這都是常態。我們也都做好準備,各種選舉的結果,我們都有相應的做法。基本上我們對台美關係是有信心。至於台積電,我想基本上它是外資占多數的公司。"},{"start":27054.802,"end":27055.422,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":27079.611,"end":27083.512,"text":"所以對於台積電對於台灣最重要保護我們區域安全的這樣的一間公司不會受到相關的影響是不是"},{"start":27103.001,"end":27119.557,"text":"基本上這個供應鏈來講還有整個上中下游的分工那當然在製程上面我們是有它的優勢可是整個半導體的供應鏈還有上游還有中游還有下游所以還是以美國占最大的一個比例"},{"start":27120.217,"end":27141.115,"text":"所以這個是一個互補的關係那晶片法案它也是一個立法通過的我想這個都會在這個法律的基礎下來持續的執行所以在這一點上面倒是不用太擔心另外就是其實在美國方面的不管媒體還有這個半導體的專家也都持續的有發言"},{"start":27141.935,"end":27145.078,"text":"我最後還是要請問院長其實我們知道即便是今天"},{"start":27167.216,"end":27188.078,"text":"我們的總預算沒有通過過去我看到了在95、96年的時候即便那時候是陳水扁擔任總統的時候在96年的年中才通過了政府的預算但是因為根據我們預算法只要是"},{"start":27188.979,"end":27205.416,"text":"法定支出的只要是經常性支出是沒有問題的為什麼最近很大的爭議都是在在野黨黨預算所以讓我們的政府部門沒有經費我認為這是我們行政院需要澄清的部分"},{"start":27206.63,"end":27234.73,"text":"報告委員我們國家正處於一個高度的創新研發的時代各項的產業要新興向榮新的產業一直在增加外國的廠商也一直會進來所以對很多的新興項目對很多的新增的項目你終於講真話了吧對於新增的新興的項目才有影響對於接續性的沒有影響是不是但是新增跟新興項目如果沒有辦法從1月份開始執行的話"},{"start":27235.33,"end":27238.435,"text":"即便是公務員的加薪從明年開始,我們未來在預算通過後,我們也可以再來支付,是不是?"},{"start":27250.754,"end":27269.313,"text":"我早上講過了對軍公教人員或許我們還可以對他們訴諸以理但是對很多人民急迫的需求健康福利的照顧一日都不能耽誤很多國際的合作合作之下我們這個共同的信任關係也不能夠破壞所以我還是誠懇的希望"},{"start":27269.994,"end":27270.815,"text":"問題是我們在這個中間溝通的過程當中"},{"start":27289.691,"end":27291.571,"text":"這就是大問題啊這就是大問題啊"},{"start":27314.837,"end":27326.707,"text":"如果預算沒有通過,你就沒有辦法補助。問題是,你們還是可以動用你們的預備金啊,是不是?在害預備金啊。"},{"start":27330.558,"end":27351.303,"text":"我是說你們還是可以這個是根據預算法你是可以動用的啊是不是委員你說我們沒有提出我們的方法我們的方法一直寫在這裡可是委員一直強調的是你的問題後來不去看我的方法那我如果方法提出來大家來看我是說我現在是說你就是一直在用這樣那如果你一直在"},{"start":27352.623,"end":27378.85,"text":"誣衊在野黨的時候沒有一個良性的溝通未來大家沒有辦法再繼續討論下去啊我們在立法院的政治協商也沒有辦法繼續進行啊是不是沒有誣衊在野黨甚至我們在這裡是很誠懇的希望大家能夠在互相尊重情況底下就憲法跟法律的精神跟規定建立一個可以完全互動的模式這是唯一的原則如果建立起來今年我們來解決"},{"start":27379.87,"end":27380.03,"text":"沒錯!沒錯!"},{"start":27398.712,"end":27399.473,"text":"對,可是我認為執政黨應該要讓我們所有人"},{"start":27429.554,"end":27430.615,"text":"謝謝謝一芬委員質詢。謝謝主委院長、相關部會首長的備詢。"},{"start":28077.628,"end":28078.469,"text":"主席好,有請卓議員長麻煩再請卓議員長備詢"},{"start":28108.288,"end":28136.666,"text":"郭委員好委員長辛苦了那我不會問你眼中有沒有只有我好我想這個會期是預算會期但是很遺憾我們一直到現在是沒有預算可以審整包全部打包一起在程序委員會就不知道被退了幾次了那離114年中央總預算的這個年度我們只剩下最後是兩個月不到的一個時間了"},{"start":28137.95,"end":28138.53,"text":"現政的設計原意就是如此"},{"start":28162.128,"end":28184.615,"text":"那另外再根據這個預算法第91條那立法委員所提的法律案大幅增加稅出或者是稅入的時候應該要先徵詢行政院的意見然後去明指明這個彌補資金的一個來源必要的時候其實也應該要同時有提案修正其他的法律對嗎是的"},{"start":28186.527,"end":28208.974,"text":"我想這個都是我們應該要遵守的一個最重要的法源的依據那當然這個10月初的時候其實我也特別前往我自己的任陽的責任區包含在桃園那不管是鐵路地下化也好或者是在這個國道3號連接大溪路段的那個開通的儀式也好"},{"start":28209.734,"end":28231.513,"text":"那我自己深刻的感覺到就是在地方的活動尤其是在地方政府的部分那也有很多除了我以外當然還有我們的這個國民黨的立委同事們他們也都會在場那很有趣的一個現象是他們都會說我們需要中央跟地方合力來"},{"start":28232.912,"end":28259.834,"text":"做這樣子的一個交通的建設那中央應該要好好的來補助一下我們的地方但問題是像類似這樣子的一個攸關交通預算光是桃園的部分高達有70億那我們總預算一直沒有辦法順利的覆為來做審查那這個部分是不是一定就會去延盪到地方政府在交通上的重要建設"},{"start":28260.902,"end":28281.03,"text":"就如委員的觀察我想從中央到地方的民意代表也都很期待中央地方各項的合作也因為這樣的觀察我們也看到這樣的需要所以我始終保持著很高度的樂觀跟信心我認為終究還是會走到一個大家最期待的那個地步那就是"},{"start":28282.443,"end":28285.725,"text":"兩院合作,兩院互相尊重,中央地方互相合作。"},{"start":28295.283,"end":28296.104,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":28315.465,"end":28316.386,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":28334.223,"end":28352.319,"text":"災害其實目前都還在計算當中還在計算這個災損的部分那我一直不斷的在強調其實這個災損它的建設尤其是修復的一個整個所有的過程它會是跨年度的那如果114年的總預算我們一直沒有辦法負為審查請問災損的預算能編列嗎?"},{"start":28358.918,"end":28380.449,"text":"今年度當然我們的災害準備金是全部都用完了就比如農業部來看災害準備金用的已經超越超過非常非常多了那我們還有其他的方式來找尋這個財源那目前我們也找到適當的方式但未來就看災害來了多少我那天到蘭嶼我特別才知道我們兩年前小選颱風來的時候編了10億讓蘭嶼所有的電纜地下化"},{"start":28384.491,"end":28385.212,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議"},{"start":28400.549,"end":28418.844,"text":"昨天其實這個財劃法我們在財政委員會雖然我是教文委員會的外委的這個部分但是我是從早上這個8點半其實就已經在這邊stand by從早上9點一直到晚上的半夜12點那我的這個中指也受傷了整個歐腸很大一顆"},{"start":28419.979,"end":28443.84,"text":"那我想這個才化法的部分其實不是不修而是25年當中其實我們都沒有達到一定的共識那這個共識呢包含我們的22個縣市的地方他們的聲音在很多的指標當中其實沒有達到共識你去急著修這個所謂的才化法要向中央挖錢那我想這個相對來講對我們來講是將來也是一個很大的一個挑戰"},{"start":28445.72,"end":28462.572,"text":"這個戰場其實包含昨天坐在財政委員會那個會議室當中也是從早做到晚很辛苦我們的部會首長那在這個部分其實我們再次的向藍白喊話啦好嗎我們希望趕快把總預算覆為審查"},{"start":28463.663,"end":28464.043,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":28481.34,"end":28496.431,"text":"不分所有的類別全部被打包式的退回卡關到目前沒有預算可審他其實還包含社福包含教文包含經濟發展甚至包含國防的預算也將近有4760億"},{"start":28499.133,"end":28524.587,"text":"那我覺得這個國家的安全其實是非常非常的重要啦那接下來呢我想呢在這個在野黨不斷的在阻擋總預算的一個情況之下國防部的軍事投資跟作業的維持計畫也有可能遭受到嚴重的影響我剛剛講了4700多億的這樣子的預算那是不是有可能會開了國家安全的大門"},{"start":28526.347,"end":28540.735,"text":"為了2026也好或者2027也好大家傳言當中的中共要干擾台灣犯台來為他們開這個大門會不會相對有嚴重的影響"},{"start":28541.295,"end":28558.013,"text":"我們現在就來看一下包含軍事的投資1458億這個新增的一個案件喔新增的包含這個潛艦的國造後續的整個所有的進程以及新型的步槍等等其實這個都是非常重要的國防的我們"},{"start":28558.473,"end":28558.573,"text":"主席"},{"start":28582.127,"end":28595.655,"text":"總統也已經講過了我們展現自我防衛的能力跟決心在這個重要關鍵的時刻特別是國際社會會看著你就是說你到底有沒有自我防衛的能力跟決心"},{"start":28597.359,"end":28614.361,"text":"我們穩健的增加國防預算運用在這個相關領域不對稱戰力、後備戰力提升、作戰韌性我們現在每天要應對這個中國每天的軍事恫嚇跟灰色地帶的騎擾我們這些相關的這些作業維持會也好"},{"start":28614.701,"end":28615.482,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":28634.722,"end":28650.192,"text":"還有FMF就無償的這個軍援像這樣子都是因為基於這個臺灣關係網跟六項保證來支持我們那如果我們自己沒有辦法通過這個國防預算來展現自我防衛的能力跟決心的話那他就會開始質疑你說"},{"start":28654.496,"end":28677.59,"text":"所以其實我們真的不禁要想到這個削弱整個所有我們的總預算的審查的一個進度其實相對來講也削弱我們的國防防禦的一個能力那這個到底他們幕後的背後的動機到底是什麼其實我們真的嚴重的懷疑好為什麼我會特別提到這個部分呢因為其實我們都知道現在國防光是要流財其實也相當的不容易"},{"start":28678.05,"end":28694.671,"text":"那流財不易的一個狀況之下是不是有可能會是因為他們薪資誘因比較低那我們大家都知道其實這個加薪的部分是屬於所謂的新興計畫之一那國防部目前我們可以看到這個士兵的人數普遍低於所謂的需求"},{"start":28695.191,"end":28722.285,"text":"那最主要的原因是不是可能直接就跟薪資待遇是有關的那104人力銀行的數據呢顯示2024年的平均月薪已經達到了4.7萬那但是呢其實我們的國軍中士以下的一個階級薪資是普遍低於這樣的一個水準那我想呢這個部分是不是也可以請國防部這邊回應我們一下到底這個薪資偏低我們要怎麼樣來補救我們要怎麼樣來提供解方"},{"start":28722.725,"end":28722.865,"text":"主席"},{"start":28734.85,"end":28762.341,"text":"招募人才是要加強然後要留營率也要加強然後這個我們要讓這個志願役的官士兵的薪資待遇能夠跟這個社會的這個一般的薪資要能夠相比這也很重要所以我們是有在研議就是說有關志願役的勤務家級還有現在邊線比比較低的就是說主戰部隊的這個家級"},{"start":28763.356,"end":28769.669,"text":"那是不是要來增加那當然這個要是這個財政的預渡讓我們研議完我還要跟"},{"start":28770.25,"end":28770.75,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":28800.47,"end":28807.782,"text":"但回歸到一句話114年中央總預算沒有負為審查什麼東西講的都是空的啦吼"},{"start":28808.43,"end":28834.695,"text":"好那接下來其實我要問的就是關於我們的教育的教育的部分了好也謝謝兩位好然後我想呢關於我們的教育的部分在教育現場的部分喔其實光是導師職務的一個佳節上次在總預算其實我沒有辦法把它問完喔那光是導師的職務的部分那班導師其實大家都知道他承擔了很多很多的責任那包含學生的情緒的管理或者是學生秩序上的管理"},{"start":28835.055,"end":28859.51,"text":"他甚至在下課之後他還要面臨跟家長上面的一個溝通輔導以及家長的一個聯繫有些導師他除了他在教學以外他還要負擔很多所謂的行政的工作那我想這是第一線的這個導師我們能夠想像的他的工作壓力到底到底有多大那另外呢我要提的是國中小的老師導師從101年開始2000元調漲到3000元但是已經有12年沒有調囉"},{"start":28864.813,"end":28869.377,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．一、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．"},{"start":28891.786,"end":28913.252,"text":"教育部長首先謝謝委員曾經上一次繼續給我們這樣一個提醒那我想教育部應該要有一個在制度面上的全盤的考量跟檢討尤其是我們知道其實在學校的部分其實在教務的加級其實不要講說教務的加級其實軍公教已經調新這近8年調整了11%但是問題是我們也承諾114年也預告會再調整3%"},{"start":28921.474,"end":28924.557,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我們在中小學裡邊我們老師這一個他所面臨的這些的一個教學的一個挑戰確實他要承擔的責任越來越大"},{"start":28950.816,"end":28976.903,"text":"感謝委員的關心但是因為這個中小學導師我們確實現在是3000那但是因為我們有學校裡面中小學他的樣態跟大學比較不太一樣他的許多行政工作確實是由中小學老師來兼任那我們考慮到整體的這個老師在行政工作上的兼任到他的一個差距上怎麼樣整體來考量我想我們會"},{"start":28977.663,"end":28978.224,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":28989.594,"end":29013.565,"text":"這一個人事總處我們研議一下然後包括這一個再跟院長做報告我只剩下十幾秒齁最後就是特教助理員的加級的部分啦特教助理員的部分尤其是他們的時薪在六都當中最重要的北部的這四都齁從新北、台北、桃園、台中他們的時薪是被減少的也就是說他們"},{"start":29029.092,"end":29029.112,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":29044.96,"end":29055.928,"text":"謝謝郭一群委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長、部會首長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第32號高金素美委員質詢。"},{"start":29071.236,"end":29100.251,"text":"謝謝韓院長現在有請原民會的主委還有主計長麻煩請原住民主委、主計總長備詢我今天就不邀請我們的卓院長上台了因為過去一個多月以來我的族人同胞在禁法補堂這個議題上面不斷地被污衊、被歧視為了不再發生這種反制的現象我這次就不邀請卓院長上台了"},{"start":29101.794,"end":29130.472,"text":"來請問一下主計長5月8號主計總署有沒有依據預算法第31條頒布114年度中央政府總預算編制辦法然後你行文給所屬各機關看一下有還是沒有你桌上應該也有啦有沒有應該有吧都在這裡了齁"},{"start":29132.003,"end":29156.757,"text":"編製辦法的第14條的第三項看一下各機關編列的概算不能夠超過行政院原本核定的額度但是有幾個例外的情況其中是不是就包含各機關必須要配合新增法律規定進法補償是不是新增了法律規定啊"},{"start":29157.819,"end":29165.087,"text":"是還是不是是好謝謝曾主委請問一下5月8號主計總署發布這個編製辦法的時候是不是匡列了125億給園民會來編製預算是124"},{"start":29174.141,"end":29188.386,"text":"在6月4日進法補償條例立法院三讀通過了以後原民會你們是不是在6月18日也依據主計總署編製的辦法你們增編了進法補償要多3萬塊的補償預算給我們主計處所以你們提報的是165.02億也就是114年度的預算看到了沒有"},{"start":29202.782,"end":29207.367,"text":"8月19日,行政院合併給人民會114年度預算多少錢?123.83億元"},{"start":29217.538,"end":29240.634,"text":"所以我們所有原民會的同仁依法依規編製了明年的預算是165.02億行政院大道一揮就只剩下123.83億公務人員依法行政依法編列預算成為我們行政院長口中的違法還有浪費公帑"},{"start":29241.855,"end":29266.553,"text":"主委,你不覺得非常荒謬嗎?進法補償每公請3萬塊的時候, 原民會匡列的預算是125億。而進法補償通過了每公請要6萬塊的時候, 行政院合併給原民會的預算只有多少?123.83億。比修法之前還少啊,主委。"},{"start":29267.694,"end":29291.276,"text":"你當了一輩子的公務人員我相信你的內心一定非常的沮喪但是你可以不必沮喪為什麼從上個禮拜五一直到今天所有很多民眾黨的委員也好國民黨的委員也好在這邊正在為你圓明會還有為我們的主任討公道所以我們要謝謝他們"},{"start":29293.089,"end":29311.188,"text":"而我們的卓院長不斷跟大家講預算法91條財政紀律法其實呢全部都是假議題啦禁法補償、條例修法大家回憶一下從委員會的審查我就是召委"},{"start":29311.969,"end":29331.81,"text":"然後到朝野協商再到今天的韓院長的協商每一次的會議行政院都有不同部會的人員參加不管是新政府還是舊政府期間都沒有人說修法有問題"},{"start":29334.011,"end":29354.22,"text":"這不就是已經徵詢行政部門的意見嗎?哪裏沒有徵詢行政部門的意見呢?再說進法補償條例在105年立法的時候就是本席在立法院跟簡東明委員立的法當時有一個附帶決議"},{"start":29356.301,"end":29380.627,"text":"決議寫得非常的清楚如果要調整禁法補償的額度我們所需要的預算可以從碳稅或者是碳費來支應而環境部不是從明年就開始要開增碳費了嗎?哪裡沒有預算呢?所以本席認為禁法補償條例"},{"start":29382.347,"end":29404.908,"text":"一直在講為依法編列預算從頭到尾都只是卓院長自以為我們立法院沒有徵詢他一個人的意見而已導致現在我們必須要不斷的在這邊找理由在這邊跟他質詢所以"},{"start":29405.749,"end":29418.747,"text":"我要講的是難怪昨天有一位他們政黨的立法委員在廣播裡面講說卓院長嘴硬是一致的也難怪如此"},{"start":29419.605,"end":29437.254,"text":"另外,主委,我再請你看一下,我翻遍了原民會114年單位預算書,還有你的綜合發展基金的預算書。目前呢,這兩本預算書加起來,在進法補償金項目上就只有編列了28.16億。"},{"start":29439.813,"end":29447.944,"text":"具體來講就是原民會在114年的公務預算裡面只有編列28.16億轉交給綜合發展基金去執行進法補償"},{"start":29455.655,"end":29457.596,"text":"兩本預算書加起來就只有28.16億,也就是每公頃左院長口中講的4萬塊的經費額度,是不是這樣?"},{"start":29476.738,"end":29501.352,"text":"我們的預算是編4億,但是往年都是……4億?有沒有講錯?就是編4萬,一公頃4萬,還有2萬,本來行力就可以用這個基金那你基金編在哪裡?看一下預算書你的基金編在哪裡?你的基金裡面只有28.16億轉到你們基金裡面要動資轉給這個金髮補償啊,編在哪裡?"},{"start":29504.434,"end":29504.874,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":29530.421,"end":29548.172,"text":"本來就只有4萬塊行政院長在這裡備詢還有在媒體面前講得很清楚他認為4萬塊是合理合憲的所以根本就沒有存在有一些立委尤其是原住民立委在外面一直講有啊4加2啊要不就是6加0的狀況啊"},{"start":29549.813,"end":29549.993,"text":"主席"},{"start":29574.848,"end":29599.309,"text":"10月21號的協商你說你有很多的方式可以來解決預算編列不足的問題你說的工具有什麼總預算修正、綜合發展基金、第二預備金但是你講完了這些之後呢你又接著長篇大論講說綜合發展基金是你認為最可行的工具甚至說我們基金還有30億的剩餘款可以使用你知道嗎"},{"start":29600.49,"end":29610.415,"text":"原民會主委打臉你啦剛剛他說只有17億啊來我們看一下為什麼說17億因為基金的資產項目中114年底可動資做進法補償的款項現金7億流動金融資產10億應收款項0.27億合計17億主委你倒是講對了主計長你"},{"start":29629.372,"end":29657.524,"text":"才是搞不清楚狀況而主委你講你說你可以用17億好就算我們現在讓你用17億用在淨法補償加上公務預算28.16億你說這足以發給每個人每公頃6萬塊的補償對不對好你知道嗎這是要停止原民會各項貸款的業務耶然後你把17億全部放在淨法補償基金上面"},{"start":29658.311,"end":29678.944,"text":"你難道不清楚知道我們其他的貸款業務就做不來了嗎?如果這樣繼續動資基金,115年就沒有預算可以辦理貸款了耶,你知不知道?各位報告,我們每一年的進化補償的發放的時間,最快也是9月底到10月。"},{"start":29681.126,"end":29697.66,"text":"換句話講,這個經會是明年的9月、10月才會發放這個進化補償。然後呢?然後我們,就是說我們沒有經會,我們會請求來,這個請,這個主計…你知道委員會行了幾次公文跟主計處說,你們基金要破產了,主計處回你的文是什麼?"},{"start":29698.741,"end":29701.623,"text":"現在行政院究竟要使用你百寶箱裡面的哪一個工具?是總預算調整呢?還是要用第二預備金呢?"},{"start":29722.867,"end":29725.248,"text":"就你的認為請你大聲一點好嗎你還是沒有回答我的問題啦"},{"start":29748.633,"end":29776.303,"text":"我要講的是今天你們既然有心在這邊你們早就應該要白紙黑字提出來嘛不要讓大家在閣樓上講嘛然後等一下這邊質詢完畢以後我們的韓院長就可以進去跟其我們其他的在野黨的山長討論嘛你們現在一直在講說要用這些要用那些你們都沒有白紙黑字寫下來啊對不對好了請你可以回座曾主委剩下我們兩個在部落上你是我的長輩"},{"start":29777.813,"end":29793.23,"text":"我在這裡要告訴你的是,原住民族的轉型正義從來就不在民進黨政府的眼中。為什麼?因為當我們努力在立法、修法、進法補償的時候,我們的農業部用一個計畫就可以讓農民零九萬塊的休耕補助。"},{"start":29793.951,"end":29816.317,"text":"我們的經濟部用一個計畫就可以讓一般人領6萬塊的直數保齡獎金。我們的農業部113年也預告了,獎勵照領辦法平均每年可以領多少?6萬塊。我們很辛苦的立法修法,平地休耕補助,只要用一個行政方案,它就可以發放了。"},{"start":29817.057,"end":29837.649,"text":"而我們的禁法補償經過漫長的三讀立法通過即使總統已經公告實施了還要被我們的卓院長指責這是違法、浪費公堂然後不編預算我回想到2005年原禁法三讀通過的時候隔天馬上傳出行政院就要提復印"},{"start":29838.629,"end":29861.461,"text":"當時的原民會陳主委還有企劃處的林處長他們奉命跑到行政院去要簽署所謂的復議案當時你應該也在原民會因為當時適逢整個行政院總辭大家在拍畢業照一片混亂當中原民會沒有簽署復議案所以我們的原基法逃過一劫"},{"start":29862.261,"end":29863.061,"text":"主要是因為我沒有請你回答"},{"start":29889.177,"end":29890.886,"text":"我沒有請你回答 請暫停時間 韓院長"},{"start":29893.617,"end":29918.39,"text":"時間暫停,麻煩請行政官員沒有要求詢答之前,請不要回答我現在非常的尊重你喔,我說你是我長輩喔所以我現在告訴你,2015年時間暫停,高經緯時間暫停在重申根據立法院執行事法沒有要求你詢答之前,請暫時不要回答,好嗎?不好意思,我要跟村議員報告一下,高經緯請繼續"},{"start":29921.192,"end":29944.25,"text":"謝謝2015年進法補償立法也是這樣在野的柯建民主黨理由是什麼民進黨就要這個執政了怎麼可以通過進法補償後來是因為蔡總統要大選啦怕影響他勉強通過所以除了進法補償之外我們的政府還忘了很多早年對原鄉的長期壓迫啊光復之後"},{"start":29945.01,"end":29945.491,"text":"三十六年的三地管制讓園鄉"},{"start":29961.587,"end":29981.185,"text":"三、一窮二白、民生基礎是零、工作機會是零﹖而當時我們原住民的子弟只好離鄉背井去討生活因為我們的文化跟語言的差異只能去做重勞力的工作這些全部都是對原住民轉型正義而我們的民進黨對我們的轉型正義做什麼"},{"start":29982.026,"end":30006.322,"text":"促進轉型正義條例,排除了日據時期。然後兩天前聯合國的生物多樣性公約第16次的大會才在哥倫比亞閉幕並且通過一項決議。大會主席蘇珊娜表示,透過這項決議,原住民、非洲人後裔和在地社區的傳統知識價值得到了肯認公約26年對原住民族的起暫停。"},{"start":30014.007,"end":30014.548,"text":"請部會首長不要接受"},{"start":30037.489,"end":30038.09,"text":"不要搶答"},{"start":30063.679,"end":30071.047,"text":"謝謝,謝謝高金委員的質詢,也謝謝曾主委的答詢。接下來我們請登記第33號外會員委員請質詢。"},{"start":30088.208,"end":30093.39,"text":"主席、協議院長、卓院長、原住民委員原住民委員"},{"start":30114.349,"end":30134.945,"text":"院長,是不是那個岩民會主委走得太慢了,還我三秒鐘。沒問題,好,那委員請。院長,我剛才其實我是要針對我的選區的AI,AI的一個機器人的一個未來的一個發展的展望。"},{"start":30135.973,"end":30161.44,"text":"然後跟你做探討那可是我實在是聽不下去了我覺得這個武黨級的高軍委員講這個進華補償實在是講得太離譜太離譜了所以在這裡我首先先請教院長就是進華補償從105年他開始發放就是用原民會的公務預算跟基金各辦的一個編列來支應是不是"},{"start":30163.505,"end":30175.8,"text":"委員講得正確不過容許我借委員的30秒鐘我要向韓院長表示剛剛我們在這裡聽到了一場不對稱的質詢不對稱的質詢高級委員用很多"},{"start":30176.994,"end":30193.783,"text":"不適時的內容來攻擊行政院讓行政院的官員沒有辦法答詢我剛剛實在想起來表示我的抗議但是我基於意識的和諧我只現在向韓院長表示我內心的感受我希望這種不對稱的質詢也不要成為慣例"},{"start":30194.924,"end":30211.898,"text":"那委員所說的沒有錯我們過去對於禁法補償我從來沒有說過行政院從來沒有表示過它是一個違憲的它是一部法律但法律修訂的過程要依照各種修法的相關程序來做只要依照程序做行政院絕對依法執行"},{"start":30212.526,"end":30229.294,"text":"好 院長 原民會的轉型正義一直就是我們民進黨不管從小英總統到賴清德總統一直都是我們民進黨在執政的一個最重要的政策這是不是我們向來最重要的一個就是轉型正義的一個目標"},{"start":30230.831,"end":30246.51,"text":"從2000年民進黨陳水扁總統執政以後我們對原住民族的關心從歷史上歷歷可見所有的存在的事實到現在還持續在發展跟壯大之中以後我們也會這樣做是 謝謝那院長是不是進化補償"},{"start":30247.771,"end":30276.575,"text":"是不是陳儒就是其他藍白的委員講到了我們完全都沒有編列這樣的一個公務預算也不能用基金來撥補是不是這樣子有道理今天不管4萬2萬還是3萬3萬我們到底有沒有編我們到底會不會給他們他現在都帶風向說我們不會給那個原住民這一些那個我們的市民有這些經費到底有沒有"},{"start":30276.966,"end":30291.584,"text":"修法之前進法補償編列3萬元修法的過程行政院曾經表示過如果能夠提升到4萬元我們願意來接受這樣的結果但是編了6萬元卻沒有指出"},{"start":30292.005,"end":30292.385,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":30311.798,"end":30312.258,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":30342.138,"end":30359.887,"text":"講的就是說無理的通過再增加26億那就佔原民會總預算的42%了那個原民會主委是不是那如果就是增加了這個26億的話會排擠到其他原民會的預算這個才是真正傷害到全體"},{"start":30361.508,"end":30362.108,"text":"麻煩請交通部長、國發會主委備詢"},{"start":30383.939,"end":30412.637,"text":"跟院長探討我們整體來講就是說在總統的一個文告裡頭有特別提出來就是整體我們那個智慧科技大南方那個生態系的一個發展那在這裡我要跟院長做個探討就是在10月16號我有邀請到我們台南市政府那還有我們的國科會國科會還有國發會那共同的研議大型發展的一個"},{"start":30413.217,"end":30413.277,"text":"國科會主席"},{"start":30444.617,"end":30458.383,"text":"是的,賴委員對,那所以那個我想諸位我們盤點了以後我們發現就是說這個是我們科技預算總數那我們智慧科技大南方產業生產區的確有變了"},{"start":30459.937,"end":30487.45,"text":"對,就是那個我們的智慧科技那個南方產業的一個生態系裡頭我們有特別編了這樣的一筆一千多億的一個預算這是科技預算的總數對,科技預算的總數那所以就是說我們盤點了那天我們在會議上我們也去盤點了就是說如何把這一個科技S狼帶就是說你從就是我整個就是在嘉義縣然後一直延伸過來到"},{"start":30489.031,"end":30516.449,"text":"新營到南柯到台南、高雄、到屏東對,到橋柯、到屏東就是缺了這一塊院長缺了我這一塊那我們其實就是六甲那個公園院、南院在我的選區裡頭其實那個地方有很多很多優秀的人才因為在早期我們的晶片其實也是從公園院研發出來的那有人才"},{"start":30517.229,"end":30534.527,"text":"我有最好的一個交通,我的交通裡頭其實我掩蓋的就是說在國三我有三個交流道,那不管是我的六甲交流道、我的新營交流道、還有我的柳營交流道,我的交通是便利的。"},{"start":30535.268,"end":30563.204,"text":"那我有五個水庫在那個地方所以各種生態各種條件其實我已經具備了最好的一個條件所以我要請院長全力的支持我尤其在我這麼好的一個人才公園院在我這個選區裡頭我希望它其實是足夠很好的條件可以達到就是一個AI機器人的研發產業中心在我那個地方然後附帶的我們知道就是說"},{"start":30564.184,"end":30590.821,"text":"整體來講就是這個整個產區的發展、研發跟生產那我還有一個柳科第三期這個是很快不超過15分鐘這個生產的一個基地就在那個地方所以我很希望就是院長可以有一個時間到我這個地方來就是實際的一個考察你會覺得沒有任何一個地方比我這個地方條件更好"},{"start":30592.51,"end":30619.253,"text":"報告委員我們在均衡台灣的整體規劃當中六大區域治理的計畫裡面大南方計畫這是一個完整的計畫那國發會已經在就內部的這個產業跟生活面做比較詳細的一個細部規劃那科技的部分國客會一直對我們沙崙為主的整個大S廊帶有相當完整的一個構想那明年開始我們就會初步的提出一些"},{"start":30620.074,"end":30644.154,"text":"有經費有期程的一些工作時間工作內容那一步一步會把它納進來那將來在國發會的整個區域治理計畫當中剛剛委員所提的這個部分如果原來在計畫裡面我們當然會照計畫走如果是周遭為了帶動周遭的整個連體連帶的一個發展我們會請國發會再來審慎的地方看那我有機會我們也到現場再去看"},{"start":30644.945,"end":30664.355,"text":"好,謝謝院長。我想我在這裡要特別感謝我們的國會主委,還有我們的國科會主委,他們其實為了這個議題,他們也下了很多的研究的功夫。事實上,我想他們,我希望他們再跟你做完整的一個專案的報告。"},{"start":30665.416,"end":30667.438,"text":"謝謝謝謝院長那接著跟院長再來討論交通的問題我想這個"},{"start":30691.397,"end":30714.865,"text":"因應國際的七四交通運輸研究所他透過了一個建議就是說透過發展公共運輸系統我們希望達到2050年的淨零排碳請問院長你認同這樣子的一個計畫嗎?2050年的淨零排碳是全世界的目標那我們逐步在往這個方向在前進我們也設定了2030、2032每年逐年應該達到的一個標準"},{"start":30718.988,"end":30739.896,"text":"是,那我們從那個就是交通部的那個應援所裡頭他所做的一個那個特別的一個規劃裡頭我們看到了就是說三大策略裡頭其實他把最重要的一個發展公共運輸系統加強運輸需求的管理他把列為就是最重要的一個指標性的"},{"start":30740.356,"end":30740.896,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":30757.421,"end":30780.908,"text":"一年那個民眾日常生活應聚的一個狀況的調查分析這很慘啊我們臺南是敬佩莫作在所有所有就是全臺灣倒數第七啊那個六都墊底為什麼那個所有統計出來就是我們的公共運輸的一個條件是最差的臺北市他還達到37.2新北市是28.7我們臺南是4.8"},{"start":30787.19,"end":30789.752,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":30814.493,"end":30837.056,"text":"這個部長看到我就在笑了我就是要一直講一直講讓你看到我就哭起台37對,看到你就想要台37謝謝沒錯我想這個台37的延伸對我們新營對在未來就是我們產業發展就是說對南科也有很大的一個發展一個重要性還有新營車站太老舊了新營車站的一個老舊"},{"start":30838.177,"end":30842.039,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．完整會議"},{"start":30858.413,"end":30881.339,"text":"那我們常常接到就是我們的辦公室常常會接到就是我們新營的通車組那我們的通勤組他其實就是往南往南他就是到台南去上班往北的話就是到嘉義那你知道就是說在這幾個幾個這個通勤的部分的時候我們發現就是我們的幾關號太老舊這個幾關號太老舊"},{"start":30884.741,"end":30914.065,"text":"我想這個我自己也嘗試去做過那個冷氣好像真的是不能後來我問了交通部他們告訴我說我說你們平常冷氣是開了那個幾度他們跟我講說那個大概是26到27那你想一想一個老舊的一個車廂然後你的冷氣這個溫度又是這麼差然後是不是需要汰換了"},{"start":30914.705,"end":30915.265,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":30945.025,"end":30961.48,"text":"所以在這裡我特別提出來就是說我的這個區間車還有我的這個舉光號還有我的志強號這些老舊的一個這個交通運具公共的一個運具是不是應該適當的把它探新"},{"start":30962.04,"end":30980.137,"text":"是,報告委員在舉光號的部分確實已經蠻老舊了我們從111年就開始在汰換一些比較舊的部分那目前還有175輛的自動門的這個舉光號我們預計在116年之前我們逐步來汰換那盡量都換成這個EMU3000也就是新的自強號還有EMU900"},{"start":30980.657,"end":30981.778,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":31001.018,"end":31023.032,"text":"財政部長我想再請教你一下,臺37縣的延伸,延伸到新營,這個可行性評估到底什麼時候可以做?這個我們目前跟嘉義縣政府還有臺南市政府我們兩邊...謝謝麥會員委員,謝謝那個3秒鐘還給你啦,來委員特別報告一下。謝謝主委院長、部會首長的備詢,謝謝。"},{"start":31030.649,"end":31058.957,"text":"接下來請登記第34號,楊瓊英委員質詢。謝謝敬愛的院長。我們行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊、新聞界的朋友、各位同仁。楊瓊英發言首先來邀請卓院長。"},{"start":31060.216,"end":31061.517,"text":"能源政策,小英總統執政8年的能源政策,你認為是成功還是失敗?"},{"start":31081.601,"end":31103.194,"text":"第一次能源轉型,我們到底真正促成了台灣再生能源的發展。那速度上當然沒有像本來預設的那麼快,但是我們覺得在2026年的時候,我們可以補足現在的目標。換句話說,你這麼回答就是說小英政府的這個能源政策,它是有待改進的空間。"},{"start":31105.106,"end":31123.724,"text":"凡事起頭難,所以先前有一段時間進度比較慢的,我們有可有把握在2020...先前有一段時間進度比較慢,本期告訴你,民眾的感受,本期的感受是失敗的。是失敗的,為什麼?執政8年,火力8成。"},{"start":31125,"end":31151.163,"text":"就這八個字我告訴你是失敗的所以我們看到雖然是失敗但是前任的部長王美花部長還有作為他說增氣就減煤所以他同時也在這個2021年的時候呢他也特別來提出了他特別提出什麼呢也就是說要達到雙贏的政策所以我告訴院長我們看看現在"},{"start":31153.203,"end":31174.489,"text":"中國的燃氣機組的二期環評通過了?是。是通過了?是。臺中人的費怎麼辦呢?臺中人的健康怎麼辦呢?我用數據告訴你。數據告訴你。六部的燃氣機組,一部1300MW,再加上民間電廠,總加600MW。所以換句話說,如果以這樣加總起來是8400MW,"},{"start":31183.371,"end":31212.36,"text":"十部的藍莓基礎一部550MW裝置容量十部5500MW所以換句話說你如果六部的藍莓基礎燃氣全開那麼是8400要加上這個宗家的民營電廠的600所以換句話說是目前我們的藍莓基礎的總裝置量的1.5倍1.5倍所以我要請教本市要請教卓院長"},{"start":31213.743,"end":31229.335,"text":"黃美化部長的GAS有所作為您為什麼不能做呢?您為什麼不能做呢?我們現在有在做啊您為什麼不能做?我們在2027年我們會剩下兩部燃氣加六部燃煤的基礎"},{"start":31231.345,"end":31232.466,"text":"二、三、五年六部能進一組。"},{"start":31244.349,"end":31268.527,"text":"你剛才說的第一次轉型困難我告訴你是失敗的因為再一次強調直升8年火力8成所以我再一次告訴你如果依照你目前的作為王美花部長可以做現在的卓議院長不做在這樣情況之下你的二次能源轉型我告訴你你會轉出一個最大的火力發電廠"},{"start":31269.668,"end":31295.281,"text":"最大的火力發電廠所以因此我要告訴你我要告訴你爭氣、戰慮你卻不減煤王美鳳部長當時提出當時提出請卓院長你注意聽他當時提出規劃第一步的燃氣機組運轉成功之後隔年我們就可以做減煤拆掉一支煙囪把燃煤機組拆除"},{"start":31296.321,"end":31307.706,"text":"這是王美花部長當時,所以我在上個禮拜在經濟委員會也特別問了郭部長以及曾董事長,他說會,他一定會落實這個承諾,對不對?你本席,你聽本席說"},{"start":31313.308,"end":31313.769,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":31337.017,"end":31339.438,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":31368.209,"end":31390.915,"text":"他不會同時進行這個工作你說這一個備用我告訴你我們繼續來討論臺電公司告訴我們說因應國安的考慮所以必須要保留六部的藍莓基礎對不對是是這麼說嗎是嗎是是嗎那我們國安部長的時代就沒有國安問題囉"},{"start":31394.42,"end":31396.622,"text":"報告委員,我跟您解釋,可以嗎?能源政策就在這裡。"},{"start":31412.779,"end":31414.38,"text":"一、依照電力設施以及空氣汙染"},{"start":31429.844,"end":31453.597,"text":"部的一個排放標準我們的第2條第11款裡頭規定緊急備用的電力設施也就是單一機組你一年可以有720小時換句話說你的6部藍莓機組的備用你每一年都能夠有一個月足足一個月的一個容量去運作所以在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":31456.238,"end":31474.607,"text":"你每一部藍莓機組每一年都可以開足足一個月這是法定規定目前法定規定對不對上限所以有需要的時候才會法定規定所以本席要請教委員就像你每一年一部機可以一個月有需要的時候才會換備胎"},{"start":31476.633,"end":31500.963,"text":"本期沒有請他回答請不要佔據本期的時間臺中人的健康臺中人的肺請院長你要注意啊你要關心啊我們實質理性的來討論每一臺藍莓基礎每一年可以相轉運轉一個月一個月環境部部長你坐在這裡你站在這裡你是最需要照顧人民的健康啊"},{"start":31501.403,"end":31517.375,"text":"報告委員他空屋是顯著的減量然後他的燃煤也顯著的減少40跟30都很明確的我會再繼續跟你討論我講白了一句話你就是怕缺電所以你要犧牲我們台中人的健康"},{"start":31518.68,"end":31535.835,"text":"再請教部長再請教院長您剛才說的緊急備用所有的條件會在你的備用量600以下才可以運轉嗎?會在這個你的AQI指標80以下才運轉嗎?會不會?會不會?會不會?"},{"start":31539.721,"end":31540.402,"text":"這部需要的時候就不會運轉?"},{"start":31555.814,"end":31568.18,"text":"你現在的能源政策從王美娥部長到現在展率時程都慢了所以我們真的很緊張拜託院會尊重發言委員的質詢請大家輕聲細語好嗎拜託拜託拜託請大家輕聲細語尊重質詢委員的質詢權謝謝 要不然請繼續時間繼續"},{"start":31580,"end":31602.973,"text":"所以院長我再請教卓院長我們非常的理性來討論臺中人關鍵的議題也就是說請問你剛才所開的條件不清不楚你說需要的時候你就會可以啟動我也告訴你依法每一部的藍莓機組每一年可以一個月720小時所以請教院長"},{"start":31603.633,"end":31612.564,"text":"如果你們要運轉的時候,你要啟用的時候,請教院長,你會不會徵詢臺中市政府的意見?請教院長。沒有請你說話,請教卓院長。關鍵性的問題"},{"start":31619.271,"end":31632.702,"text":"你會徵詢嗎?你會不會徵詢?我跟委員報告一個最關鍵的問題,我不會不比你關心台中。好,謝謝你的關心,請問你會不會徵詢?請問你會不會徵詢?我的習慣是台中市委員知道嗎?請問你既然是台中市,你更應該要關心,請問你會不會徵詢?"},{"start":31640.205,"end":31641.066,"text":"請問你會不會徵詢?依照辦法必須徵詢"},{"start":31649.741,"end":31668.923,"text":"依照辦法必須徵詢你也是台中人所以我繼續要告訴你政府沒有講出真相政府沒有講出真相剛剛我們說的如果燃氣全面開的時候我告訴你我們的還說書我們的環境部長你在這裡請你講真相"},{"start":31671.766,"end":31679.692,"text":"還說書裡頭顯示,中火燃氣一期及二期基礎上限之後,我們電廠的溫室氣體排放總量會減少27%,這是對的。但是,請你講真相,濾裝物會增加60%,所謂的濾裝物,也就是自來物最嚴肅的一個議題。"},{"start":31691.241,"end":31709.295,"text":"所以臺中人的行政院長請你正視這個問題因為改善空汙是政府的責任所以我希望我們的綠電發展趕不上社會所需求的時候你應該要冷靜的去思考因為PM2.5"},{"start":31713.018,"end":31735.82,"text":"全國歷史WHO裡頭認定一級的致癌物環境部部長請你耳朵聽所以因此我沒有請你講話所以請你看看先生院長你看到我們台中市台中市的死亡率什麼最高癌症台灣的三冠王肺癌"},{"start":31737.136,"end":31746.558,"text":"三萬萬不管是人數不管是發聲率通通都是最高所以因此你剛才所說的你是台中人"},{"start":31748.899,"end":31770.846,"text":"當你當上了行政院院長應該要重視我們台中我告訴你方法你告訴我方法我告訴你數據台灣現在的肺癌肺腺癌是世界各國國外的3到5倍是3到5倍喔所以因此院長"},{"start":31771.94,"end":31789.187,"text":"我希望王美花院長部長可以做的在你左院長你又是台中人你應該更要做就是這個一模一樣啊所以院長你們現在的能源政策能源政策就是什麼總統當吸票機我們人民當什麼吸塵器"},{"start":31790.967,"end":31792.268,"text":"所提出來的重大建設"},{"start":31813.166,"end":31813.466,"text":"是這個啊?完全一樣啊?"},{"start":31834.344,"end":31848.671,"text":"陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸續除役陸"},{"start":31861.189,"end":31861.409,"text":"不是說總統講的嗎?"},{"start":31883.584,"end":31905.923,"text":"是行政院長欸!總統講的!總統講叫你趕快除役!今天環評通過的並非跟管美花部長要雙贏政策!剛剛委員放的影片裡面總統說的跟這個結果就一模一樣啊!六氣發電,六煤儆備,就是這樣子啊!總院長,你說你剛才特別告訴我你是台中人"},{"start":31906.704,"end":31916.078,"text":"我真的非常希望你重視我不希望說行政院是最速的跳票政策就是這個能源政策這是不對的請你冷靜再思維環境部長您"},{"start":31923.368,"end":31950.534,"text":"的態度讓我們覺得你沒有為我們的環境在努力。請你看看我們台中人,我們附近來的人數,肺炎的發生率,尤其WHO說了PH2.5就是最大的致癌的這個重要因子。所以請你將心比心。你在這邊不是跟我辯,而是要去維護你的政策是正確的。所以卓議員長本席再次強調,剛剛你說的"},{"start":31952.774,"end":31979.434,"text":"就是未來啟動的時候,備用啟動,你會徵詢台中市政府,是不是?剛剛你說了,你要徵詢台中市政府的同意嘛,是不是?你要徵詢台中市政府的同意,卓院長,是不是?你要徵詢台中市政府的同意才得商轉備容量的一個備用,對不對?要徵詢台中市政府的同意,對不對?"},{"start":31980.735,"end":31984.598,"text":"謝謝楊瓊英委員質詢。謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。在接下來我們請最後一位登記35號林楚英委員質詢。"},{"start":32011.926,"end":32033.883,"text":"再一次拜託各位委員請輕聲細語楊求英委員楊求英委員質詢結束了小聲一點謝謝楊求英委員你質詢結束了麻煩小聲一點好 林主委員請好 謝謝主席主席邀請我們卓榮泰卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":32041.752,"end":32064.054,"text":"林委員好院長好 院長辛苦了這個院長我大概是質詢你已經不是第一次但這一次我最緊張因為很少有質詢的時候有這麼多立委同僚在現場所以身兼最後一棒我自己壓力很大但是我們都知道身為立法院立委的職權在這個會期其實就是審總預算但是目前總預算因為還沒有附委"},{"start":32065.636,"end":32088.954,"text":"這兩天其實大家都是針對一個編列的形式性來做詢答其實無法進入真正的細節那當然剛剛前面的很多國民黨的委員特別提到的不論是進法補償啊或者是農糧收購或者是健保的點數其實這些政策的預算都重要"},{"start":32089.394,"end":32089.614,"text":"執訓了兩天之後"},{"start":32105.126,"end":32105.386,"text":"非常謝謝委員給我這個機會"},{"start":32134.892,"end":32161.685,"text":"市長在上一次的中央政府預算的報告案當中我們除了指出預算編製的過程裡面的重點之外我們特別把大家所關心的進法補償、健保點數跟公糧收購特別用了相當的篇幅做了文字的說明那這個說明就代表行政院最終的立場也是我們唯一的原則那其他的"},{"start":32163.404,"end":32182.361,"text":"點數、健保點數跟公糧補助面對的是一個主決議對行政院在審查預算法案過程當中的那我們會用未來提升點數的努力以及農業部所提出的各項措施來照顧農民的權益那至於"},{"start":32183.843,"end":32204.434,"text":"進法補償這一項,我容許我再次的強調,只要未來雙方在憲法70條的精神底下,在預算法90條,就是立法院在審查法案的時候,對於增加稅出,要跟行政院徵詢意見,更重要的是要彌補資金之來源。"},{"start":32207.759,"end":32231.508,"text":"必要時候再去修改相關的法律只要履行這樣的程序出來的預算或法案行政院必定遵守那這一次我們認為內容上、過程上有所疏忽但是我們願意用現在提出的方式只要大家確立剛剛的憲法跟法律的原則跟精神跟規定我們現在願意用"},{"start":32232.779,"end":32234.22,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":32253.106,"end":32273.622,"text":"前面的原則定好之後以後面這個方式來做解決那未來兩院之間就基於這樣的共識這樣的互相的尊重行政院尊重立法院的審議權立法院尊重行政院的預算權我們就能夠好好的從預算法案各方面來聯手創造更多福國利民的政策"},{"start":32274.402,"end":32295.01,"text":"為什麼本席願意花將近5分鐘的時間讓院長完整來陳述那就是我覺得在這個議事殿堂當中我身為最後一棒因為等一下也不確定到底朝野黨團經過協商之後在我10分鐘之後的質詢預算能不能真的復為但是至少我們不要再被"},{"start":32296.697,"end":32314.395,"text":"斷章取義行政院沒有不發禁法補償只是在編列的過程中必須兩院有一定的智慧讓它合法來進行這是國家不論是立法或行政當中非常重要的一個過程所以我這樣的詮釋對嗎院長"},{"start":32315.836,"end":32329.071,"text":"完全正確謝謝委員好那日本席是來自於媒體非常的關注的當然就是媒體的一些報導我們知道其實台灣歷經了山陀鵝然後再來是康瑞接下來銀杏颱風也要來了"},{"start":32331.474,"end":32358.053,"text":"那本席特別看了這幾天的報導就會發現說其實各地的風災確實都造成了農損院長可以看一下從這個康瑞的農損高達2.3億這是雲林縣政府然後呢包括二期水稻也有將近7億的農損宜蘭呢也有這個農民親自跟我們的賴清德總統來做呼籲希望能夠進行補貼包括"},{"start":32360.074,"end":32360.434,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":32379.761,"end":32397.65,"text":"所有的受損的農民也沒有再分顏色其實大家期望的就是希望中央能夠給予補助那麼今天已經來到了11月5號我想問的是說那麼今年在農損的補助上面我們的預算充足嗎因為眼看銀杏台風又要來了"},{"start":32399.646,"end":32407.438,"text":"農業部的災損金已經全部用完了我請部長報告我跟委員報告齁我們年度編列的那個天然災害災損金是27.1億但是因為"},{"start":32411.879,"end":32434.338,"text":"氣候變遷的關係其實從年初到包括這個三個颱風已經超過100項的災損的公報所以我們缺了大概56億那56億的部分大概也跟行政院報行政院也獲得同意所以我們現在今年度的整個的天然災害的預算是83.14億可以足夠應付到年底"},{"start":32435.418,"end":32450.027,"text":"所以言下之意就是只能到年底如果現在114年的總預算不趕快復為的話因為現在極端氣候也不知道這個天氣的變化天象變化會如何其實各縣市的農民們"},{"start":32450.888,"end":32478.805,"text":"都眼巴巴的希望政府能夠提供補助不論是總統或院長其實這幾天到民間都聽到了這樣的呼喚但是本席特別整理了一下就是我們知道總預算卡關但是其實地方可能都在熬熬待補我們來追溯一下歷史那就是過去其實總預算通常是在10月就會進行詢答那麼很少到現在11月的那麼也就是說剩下一個多月的時間到底總預算能不能過關呢"},{"start":32480.006,"end":32482.769,"text":"我們來看一下其實以地方來講剛剛我特別提到了我報紙所整理出來的從桃園、宜蘭、台東、雲林其實執政縣市的都是國民黨的黨籍那我剛剛也講了這個"},{"start":32496.064,"end":32522.223,"text":"封塞、封損、無情、不分藍綠以現在我們來看的話地方上22個縣市國民黨就超過了14個縣市還有兩席是民眾黨及無黨籍民進黨只有5席耶如果說現在總預算不過關的話很多都說民進黨當家不鬧事但是院長我們看到的是在地方上就是國民黨的"},{"start":32523.824,"end":32540.579,"text":"現事首長居多如果接下來總預算再不過關的話其實我也希望趁現在大院最後的6分鐘我質詢完之後就會來針對總預算的附委然後我們來看立法院其實從席次來看"},{"start":32541.775,"end":32565.124,"text":"也是國民黨占多數雖然國民黨一直喜歡講說當家不鬧事當家不鬧事但是從地方上的執政首長再到立法院的席次多數的都是國民黨啊總預算現在也卡在他們的手上我不知道院長您知不知道今天剛剛星期二我們有程序委員會"},{"start":32566.164,"end":32587.705,"text":"但是程序委員會依舊沒有決定星期五的程序星期五現在院會要處理什麼其實是不知道的而本席呢在6分鐘之後質詢結束我們就要來討論總預算經過了我們這35位朝野立委的詢答之後有沒有機會復委我想院長今天被問了好幾次"},{"start":32588.906,"end":32608.42,"text":"現在聽到這裡,我們也看到其實地方上懇切的希望能夠預算復違。院長,您認為等一下預算復違的機率高嗎?或者是如果預算不復違,當我們看到的是地方不斷的請院長、請總統、請部長能夠給預算、給治水、幫幫忙,那到底要怎麼辦?院長。"},{"start":32617.095,"end":32645.043,"text":"我看到現場委員一片祥和、其樂融融那等一下應該是會好的發展明年的農業部所拿的這個災損金災害的補助基金明年度編了39.61億元39.61億元將近40億元我們希望它不要用但是天然災害不可能我們願意把它花在最需要的地方最快的速度"},{"start":32645.868,"end":32668.04,"text":"我再次感謝陳建仁前院長他能夠在去年就合訂了藍綠的電纜地下化而且綠島也在做表示我們的這個公共建設社會案任性是全面性的不分族群、不分地域、不分縣市、不分黨派我希望各位委員能夠支持我們明年還是在這樣的原則底下"},{"start":32668.9,"end":32697.516,"text":"通過總預算我們緊緊的為人民做所有復國利民的法案跟政策希望大家大願能夠支持好,最後的四分半鐘我也要幫卓院長跟我們這一次114年度的總預算來做一個說明為什麼我剛剛一直在講地方根本就是國民黨執政因為國民黨的執政縣市超過半數高達14席民眾黨有兩席民進黨只有五席"},{"start":32698.476,"end":32723.487,"text":"我們在113年度的時候我們的中央政府總預算是有補助地方的這個還不包含昨天在財政委員會上所上演的荒謬鬧劇張偉成、郁真突然間就毀棄了跟各黨團的協商跑去洗來燈然後回來之後就要暗度成章要用擴權法案的方式"},{"start":32724.247,"end":32743.142,"text":"一樣偷偷摸摸的要偷渡財劃法可是事實上一邊卡總預算一邊要偷渡財劃法其實只是要搞亂我們的財政國家財政我們來看到113年度中央政府編列了2302億元要補助給地方"},{"start":32746.872,"end":32763.901,"text":"一百一十四年度也有高達兩千五百零一億元要補助給地方所以其實這些都是中央展現對地方的支持對嗎那麼面對像現在其實"},{"start":32764.701,"end":32765.141,"text":"我們在明年度"},{"start":32793.377,"end":32822.306,"text":"包括統籌包括一般性的補助給地方的超過一兆總數達到一兆零一百五十一億元同時我們在明年度想要展開的全國六大區域的治理計畫那是跨縣市的而且是連續性的如果沒有一個長遠的計畫沒有一個中央的統籌各縣市實在是無法單獨作業的所以我希望從這兩個角度來看中央會持續加碼給地方所需要的各種照顧"},{"start":32823.266,"end":32830.751,"text":"本席也特別找了資料就是其實過去這8年來中央給地方的補助是逐年的在做增加而且這8年來有高達了2000多億所以面對"},{"start":32851.045,"end":32877.432,"text":"國民黨在明天的財政委員會可能要持續的推進才化法那麼院長這裡又怎麼來看因為一手黨中央總預算一手又要用空白授權的方式在水平分配22個縣市在分配標準沒有達到共識的情況底下如果推進院長您認為這對國家財政到底會造成什麼樣的影響"},{"start":32878.643,"end":32892.846,"text":"我的信念是如果這一次向大院報告過中央政府總預算之後能夠順利的復違那表示我們提出的說明也被大家接受了未來大院在討論到財政收支劃分法的時候"},{"start":32893.72,"end":32918.502,"text":"行政院當然也會非常願意跟大院一起來討論如何強化財政力提升競爭力用這個方式讓所有財政狀況比較不好的縣市能夠在未來行政院統籌底下能夠提升他的財政力這是當前最重要的要務之一我們會朝這個方向來做向大院來據理說明清楚"},{"start":32919.762,"end":32946.068,"text":"我只希望身為立法委員我們也知道我們的職責在這個預算會期在12月31號就要截止本會期立委最重要的工作就是審預算沒有預算可審的立法院其實就是跟膠著性的空轉其實是沒有兩樣所以我也希望接下來能夠有好結果可以順利附委審查預算"},{"start":32948.741,"end":32952.707,"text":"謝謝林楚英委員質詢。也謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢。謝謝。報告議員會"},{"start":32966.215,"end":32983.218,"text":"報告委員會114年度中央政府總預算案及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案之質詢均已詢答完畢。非常感謝卓院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。"},{"start":32984.602,"end":33000.227,"text":"抱怨會,現在已將近6點鐘會議時間,我們先處理延長會議之提議。現有國民黨團提議針對本日會議11月5日提出延長開會。"},{"start":33002.324,"end":33020.481,"text":"至114年度中央政府總預算案及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案相關事宜處理完畢此散會。請問院會有無異議?沒有異議我們做以下決定"},{"start":33021.872,"end":33041.937,"text":"宣告本日會議115日延長開會時間至114年度中央政府總預算案及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案相關事宜處理完畢才散會報院會好謝謝"},{"start":33054.074,"end":33070.704,"text":"好謝謝先來宣讀重要事情謝謝麻煩院會請肅靜現在請卓院長及相關部會首長先行離席再次感謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席謝謝另外黨團幹部請6點鐘"},{"start":33074.761,"end":33095.449,"text":"至紅樓3024,我們針對總預算案及相關處理事情進行協商。另外,並請主計處主計陳主席長、農業部陳部長、衛福部邱部長、原住民曾主委協商時列席。"},{"start":33097.116,"end":33111.892,"text":"向各位委員再一次報告我們現在已經接近晚餐時間本院已經備託好晚餐便當請各位委員先行右餐等協商完畢之後我們繼續開會現在休息"},{"start":40194.998,"end":40199.971,"text":"報言會我們現在繼續開會我們先處理朝野黨團協商結論請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":40202.847,"end":40230.783,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論,時間113年11月5日下午6時,地點紅樓302會議室。協商主題,演上114年度中央政府總預算案及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案相關事宜,決定事項一,為立法、行政兩院和諧互動,針對原住民進法補償、公糧收購及健保點子等預算編列事宜,"},{"start":40231.543,"end":40245.075,"text":"於11月7日、星期四以前由行政院院長邀請本院在野黨黨團、執政黨黨團會面表示處理上開預算解決方案及誠意。二、各黨團同意有關"},{"start":40245.936,"end":40267.483,"text":"一百十四年度中央政府總預算案之各項提議均保留送院會依提案先後順序進行處理。三、各黨團同意有關中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案之各項提議均保留送院會依提案先後順序處理。主持人韓國瑜、協商代表"},{"start":40268.598,"end":40276.673,"text":"王鴻薇、吳思瑤、蔡依宇、柯建民、林思敏、吳春城、黃國昌、麥玉珍、傅坤祺宣讀完畢請問議員會對以上朝野黨團協商結論有異議"},{"start":40280.373,"end":40306.521,"text":"明而易矣,我們113年11月5日朝野協商結論,我們今決定如下。一、為立法、行政兩院和諧互動,針對原住民進法補償、公糧收購及健保點子等預算編列事宜。於11月7日 以前,由行政院院長邀請本院在野黨黨團、執政黨黨團會面,表示處理上開預算解決方案及誠意。"},{"start":40307.361,"end":40316.815,"text":"二、各黨團同意有關114年度中央政府總預算案之各項題均保留送院會,依提案先後順序進行處理。三、"},{"start":40318.291,"end":40343.628,"text":"各黨團同意有關中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案之各項提議均保留送院會依提案先後順序進行處理。辦院會現在先針對114年度中央政府總預算依提出之各項提議先後順序進行處理並截止收案。請議事人員一併宣讀提議之內容。"},{"start":40344.707,"end":40368.743,"text":"本院民進黨黨團建請做成如下決定一百十四年度中央政府總預算案含附屬單位預算及總計表營業及分額部分交財政委員會依分配表及日程分送各委員會審查本院國民黨黨團建請院會做如下處理一百十四年度中央政府總預算案中為依法編組織二萬元進發補償公糧收購"},{"start":40374.352,"end":40385.347,"text":"建保點值等主決議、相關預算經費、行政院一比照110年12月5日案例、行政院一立法院100年12月2日約會決議、約100年12月5日函宋修正、"},{"start":40391.215,"end":40414.208,"text":"一百零一年度中央政府總預算案則列一百六十三億五千七百萬元之案例。行政院應就上述三項涉及相關法律規定及決議重新檢討。於一百十三年十一月七日前修正一百十四年度中央政府總預算案修正案為含送立法院前一百十四年度中央政府總預算案暫緩複為審查。"},{"start":40416.609,"end":40428.633,"text":"本院臺灣民眾黨黨團藉請院會針對114年度中央政府總預算案做如下處理。114年度中央政府總預算案中為依法編列原住民族競發補償並為依照三黨團共識通過支柱決議"},{"start":40433.274,"end":40457.528,"text":"提高公糧收購、健保電池等相關預算經費以兌現對基層農民與醫護的保證違反行政部門因依法行政如實編列預算之原則約停案針對行政院罕請審議。114年度中央政府總預算案含附屬單位預算及綜計表營業及分營顏部分案您請願會作成如下決定"},{"start":40458.508,"end":40476.312,"text":"行政院一筆章69年11月28日審查中華民國70年度中央政府追加預算案時,曾提出糧食收購及肥料補貼相關之追加預算之前例。即110年12月5日,行政院一立法院100年12月2日院會決議於"},{"start":40478.573,"end":40498.865,"text":"一百年十二月五日韓宋修正一百零一年度中央政府總預算案,增列一百六十三億五千七百萬元之案例,於一百十三年十一月七日前修正一百十四年度中央政府總預算案,修正案為韓宋立法院前一百十四年度中央政府總預算案暫緩複為審查,是否有當請公決案。宣讀完畢"},{"start":40505.472,"end":40511.85,"text":"委員會我們現在進行處理按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡現在開始按鈴"},{"start":40939.653,"end":40945.494,"text":"現在針對民進黨黨團所提114年度中央政府總預算案之提議進行處理請問院會對民進黨黨團提議有無異議?有異議我們進行表決針對民進黨黨團提議"},{"start":40962.745,"end":40967.875,"text":"邀請有民進黨黨團要求記名表決。贊成民進黨黨團提議,請按贊成,反對請按反對。時間一分鐘,現在開始。"},{"start":41095.305,"end":41101.371,"text":"謝謝!現在報告表決結果報告院會出席106位委員贊成48位反對58位贊成者少數報告院會現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":41234.073,"end":41242.878,"text":"好謝謝現在報告重複表決投票結果出席106位委員贊成48位反對58位贊成者少數民進黨黨團提議不通過"},{"start":41252.355,"end":41260.741,"text":"因國民黨、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議相同,所以我們一併處理。請問院會,針對國民黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議有無異議?有無異議?有異議,我們進行表決。現在針對國民黨黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議,現有民進黨黨團、"},{"start":41281.718,"end":41282.801,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決時間一分鐘我們現在開始"},{"start":41364.315,"end":41382.427,"text":"法院會現在宣布表決結果出席106位贊成58位反對48位贊成者少數國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團現有民進黨黨團提議重複表決贊成者多數現在有民進黨黨團提議重複表決我們現在進行重複表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":41466.052,"end":41479.847,"text":"報告委員會現在宣布重複表決結果出席106位贊成58位反對48位贊成者多數報告委員會有關114年度中央政府總預算部分照國民黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議通過做"},{"start":41483.261,"end":41508.797,"text":"現做以下之決定。行政院依舊禁法補償、公糧收購健保點之三項涉及相關法律規定及決議重新檢討。於113年11月7日之前修正114年度中央政府總預算案。修正案為韓宋立法院前114年度中央政府總預算案暫緩複為審查。"},{"start":41512.66,"end":41520.388,"text":"現在我們處理中央政府前瞻基礎建設第5期特別預算案之提議。請議事人員一併宣讀提示內容。"},{"start":41521.431,"end":41547.859,"text":"本院民進黨黨團建請作成如下決定中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查本院台灣民眾黨黨團進行院會針對中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案做如下處理中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查社會遊蕩請公決案"},{"start":41551.46,"end":41561.828,"text":"宣讀完畢報言會因民進黨黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議相同所以我們一併處理請問院會對民進黨黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議有無異議沒有異議有異議我們要進行表決"},{"start":41576.684,"end":41579.425,"text":"針對民進黨黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團提議現有民進黨黨團、臺灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":41683.544,"end":41711.424,"text":"抱怨會現在報告表決結果出席106位贊成106位本案通過抱怨會有關中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案照民進黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過我們做以下之決定"},{"start":41713.342,"end":41725.9,"text":"中央政府前瞻基礎建設第5期特別預算案交財政委員會同有關委員會審查。報議院會循例並作兩項之決定如下。一、"},{"start":41727.409,"end":41745.991,"text":"將各委員會發言記錄及書面質詢含送行政院,請就未答覆部分與書面答覆。二、已提出之書面質詢,尚未登載公報則,一律補刊。報言會本次會議進行到此為止,現在散會。"}]}},{"id":"156518","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156518","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d412a214d0b0006cabfe3fd33acf0e4cf8bf094adffc7b89f0973918cfeb3a2548d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"17:23:48 - 17:39:25","影片長度":"00:15:37","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T17:23:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T17:39:25+08:00","duration":937,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.9422187500000001,"end":3.8109687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.14409375,"end":9.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.134718750000001,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.77596875,"end":15.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.14659375,"end":16.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.46284375,"end":18.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.54284375,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.05284375,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.777218750000003,"end":30.794093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":30.794093750000002,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.50284375,"end":44.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.03846875,"end":33.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.22409375,"end":33.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.03659375,"end":116.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.63784375,"end":85.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.21096875,"end":118.62846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.79721875000001,"end":120.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":119.13471875,"end":120.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.78846875,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":122.18909375000001,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.91034375000001,"end":125.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":126.57659375000001,"end":132.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":133.20846875,"end":135.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":136.54971875,"end":137.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":138.03471875,"end":138.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.14846875,"end":140.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":140.61659375000002,"end":143.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.87346875,"end":144.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":144.90284375000002,"end":146.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":146.35409375,"end":149.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":150.08346875,"end":150.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":151.85534375,"end":154.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":155.04471875000002,"end":162.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.16159375,"end":165.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":166.82346875000002,"end":170.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":170.97471875000002,"end":171.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":172.67909375000002,"end":173.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.29909375,"end":175.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":176.25659375,"end":176.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":177.13409375,"end":183.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.88409375,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.93846875,"end":188.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":189.26721875,"end":191.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":191.81534375,"end":195.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":196.79346875000002,"end":198.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":199.00409375,"end":200.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":201.02909375000002,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.84284375000001,"end":206.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":206.64846875,"end":209.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":209.97284375,"end":219.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":219.49034375000002,"end":220.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":221.76846875,"end":222.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":223.18596875,"end":224.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":224.63721875000002,"end":226.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":226.78034375000001,"end":227.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":227.97846875000002,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":228.13034375,"end":230.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.08346875,"end":232.90596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":233.74971875000003,"end":240.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":240.83721875,"end":241.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":242.08596875,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.09534375000004,"end":284.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.38721875000005,"end":304.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":304.91159375,"end":306.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.24471875,"end":320.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.35221875,"end":328.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.30034375,"end":367.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.73284375000003,"end":387.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":388.35846875000004,"end":392.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":392.10471875,"end":392.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.12159375000005,"end":399.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.13721875000005,"end":403.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.73159375,"end":403.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.08596875,"end":423.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.99846875000003,"end":468.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.93471875,"end":427.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.97034375000004,"end":511.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.45034375000006,"end":476.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.5078437500001,"end":529.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.7665937500001,"end":544.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.2453437500001,"end":597.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.96284375,"end":604.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":605.7590937500001,"end":607.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":607.8515937500001,"end":609.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":609.9609687500001,"end":612.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":613.4540937500001,"end":614.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.80846875,"end":614.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":614.97284375,"end":615.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":615.1584687500001,"end":622.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":622.7522187500001,"end":624.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":624.40596875,"end":624.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":625.1653437500001,"end":626.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":626.61659375,"end":627.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":628.42221875,"end":629.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.2278437500001,"end":630.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":630.56534375,"end":632.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":633.3159687500001,"end":634.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":634.8684687500001,"end":636.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":636.8428437499999,"end":637.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":638.00721875,"end":640.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":641.12909375,"end":642.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":642.63096875,"end":644.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":644.58846875,"end":646.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":647.32221875,"end":657.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":657.9028437500001,"end":665.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.46284375,"end":686.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.4509687500001,"end":712.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.2022187500002,"end":716.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.79659375,"end":730.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.5834687500001,"end":735.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.88221875,"end":779.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":780.58409375,"end":781.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":782.3728437500001,"end":784.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":784.7522187500001,"end":789.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":790.4053437500002,"end":798.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":798.5559687500001,"end":805.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":805.23846875,"end":811.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":812.24159375,"end":813.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":813.2709687500001,"end":814.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":815.21159375,"end":819.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":819.6328437500001,"end":826.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.7709687500001,"end":839.6297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.8828437500001,"end":845.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.3628437500001,"end":861.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.4109687500002,"end":866.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":867.65909375,"end":868.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":868.9584687500001,"end":869.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":870.2747187500001,"end":872.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":873.14346875,"end":874.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":874.56096875,"end":876.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":876.82221875,"end":877.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":878.32409375,"end":878.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":879.18471875,"end":882.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":882.69471875,"end":886.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":886.22159375,"end":888.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":888.90471875,"end":889.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":890.2209687500001,"end":890.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":891.3515937500001,"end":892.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":892.8872187500001,"end":903.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":903.77159375,"end":907.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.14221875,"end":908.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.6315937500001,"end":917.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":917.5078437500001,"end":925.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":926.45159375,"end":930.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.24846875,"end":935.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":937.0828437500002,"end":937.4878437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.97,"end":22.928,"text":"再一次拜託各位委員請輕聲細語楊求英委員楊求英委員質詢結束了小聲一點謝謝楊求英委員你質詢結束了麻煩小聲一點林楚茵請謝謝主席主席邀請我們卓榮泰卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":30.796,"end":53.082,"text":"林委員好院長好 院長辛苦了這個院長我大概是質詢你已經不是第一次但這一次我最緊張因為很少有質詢的時候有這麼多立委同僚在現場所以身兼最後一棒我自己壓力很大但是我們都知道身為立法院立委的職權在這個會期其實就是審總預算但是目前總預算因為還沒有附委"},{"start":54.683,"end":79.484,"text":"這兩天其實大家都是針對一個編列的形式性來做詢答其實無法進入真正的細節那當然剛剛前面的很多國民黨的委員特別提到的不論是進法補償或者是農糧收購或者是健保的點數其實這些政策的預算都重要沒有不重要的"},{"start":79.884,"end":102.683,"text":"但是就是在這個編列的過程到底合不合法合不合規我想身為立法委員自己定定法律合法是非常重要的就像行政單位也是一樣的那麼質詢了兩天之後面對在野黨所提出來的疑問因為剛剛有一些委員也不太願意讓院長來多做說明院長我是最後一棒"},{"start":103.183,"end":103.583,"text":"非常謝謝委員給我這個機會"},{"start":126.636,"end":150.729,"text":"中央政府預算的報告案當中我們除了指出預算編製的過程裡面的重點之外我們特別把大家所關心的進法補償、健保點數跟公糧收購特別用了相當的篇幅做了文字的說明那這個說明就代表行政院最終的立場也是我們唯一的原則那其他的"},{"start":151.889,"end":152.95,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．林楚茵"},{"start":172.888,"end":193.695,"text":"進法補償這一項,我容許我再次的強調,只要未來雙方在憲法70條的精神底下,在預算法90條,就是立法院在審查法案的時候,對於增加稅出,要跟行政院徵詢意見,更重要的是要彌補資金之來源。"},{"start":196.883,"end":199.665,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．林楚茵二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．林楚茵二、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．林楚茵"},{"start":221.843,"end":223.344,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":242.15,"end":262.669,"text":"前面的原則定好之後以後面這個方式來做解決那未來兩院之間就基於這樣的共識這樣的互相的尊重行政院尊重立法院的審議權立法院尊重行政院的預算權我們就能夠好好的從預算法案各方面來聯手創造更多福國利民的政策"},{"start":263.449,"end":284.037,"text":"為什麼本席願意花將近5分鐘的時間讓院長完整來陳述那就是我覺得在這個議事殿堂當中我身為最後一棒因為等一下也不確定到底朝野黨團經過協商之後在我10分鐘之後的質詢預算能不能真的復為但是至少我們不要再被"},{"start":285.744,"end":303.42,"text":"斷章取義行政院沒有不發禁法補償只是在編列的過程中必須兩院有一定的智慧讓它合法來進行這是國家不論是立法或行政當中非常重要的一個過程所以我這樣的詮釋對嗎院長"},{"start":304.881,"end":318.095,"text":"完全正確謝謝委員好那因為本席是來自於媒體非常的關注的當然就是媒體的一些報導我們知道其實台灣歷經了山陀鵝然後再來是康瑞接下來銀杏颱風也要來了"},{"start":320.498,"end":347.095,"text":"那本席特別看了這幾天的報導就會發現說其實各地的風災確實都造成了農損院長可以看一下從這個康瑞的農損高達2.3億這是雲林縣政府然後呢包括二期水稻也有將近7億的農損宜蘭呢也有這個農民親自跟我們的賴清德總統來做呼籲希望能夠進行補貼包括"},{"start":349.116,"end":350.416,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．林楚茵"},{"start":368.809,"end":386.678,"text":"所有的受損的農民也沒有再分顏色其實大家期望的就是希望中央能夠給予補助那麼今天已經來到了11月5號我想問的是說那麼今年在農損的補助上面我們的預算充足嗎因為眼看銀杏台風又要來了"},{"start":388.69,"end":396.474,"text":"農業部的災損金已經全部用完了我請部長報告我跟委員報告齁我們年度編列的那個天然災害災損金是27.1億但是因為"},{"start":400.923,"end":423.382,"text":"氣候變遷的關係其實從年初到包括這個三個颱風已經超過100項的災損的公報所以我們缺了大概56億那56億的部分大概也跟行政院報行政院獲得同意所以我們現在今年度的整個的天然災害的預算是83.14億可以足夠應付到年底"},{"start":424.462,"end":439.071,"text":"所以言下之意就是只能到年底如果現在114年的總預算趕快復為的話因為現在極端氣候也不知道這個天氣的變化天象變化會如何其實各縣市的農民們"},{"start":439.932,"end":467.83,"text":"都眼巴巴的希望政府能夠提供補助不論是總統或院長其實這幾天到民間都聽到了這樣的呼喚但是本席特別整理了一下就是我們知道總預算卡關但是其實地方可能都在嗷嗷待補我們來追溯一下歷史那就是過去其實總預算通常是在10月就會進行詢答那麼很少到現在11月的那麼也就是說剩下一個多月的時間到底總預算能不能過關呢"},{"start":469.051,"end":477.502,"text":"我們來看一下其實以地方來講剛剛我特別提到了我報紙所整理出來的從桃園、宜蘭、台東、雲林其實執政縣市的都是國民黨的黨籍那我剛剛也講了這個"},{"start":485.091,"end":511.248,"text":"封塞、封損、無情、不分藍綠以現在我們來看的話地方上22個縣市國民黨就超過了14個縣市還有兩席是民眾黨及無黨籍民進黨只有5席耶如果說現在總預算不過關的話很多都說民進黨當家不鬧事但是院長我們看到的是在地方上就是國民黨的"},{"start":512.869,"end":529.606,"text":"縣市首長居多如果接下來總預算再不過關的話其實我也希望趁現在大院最後的6分鐘我質詢完之後就會來針對總預算的附委然後我們來看立法院其實從席次來看"},{"start":530.819,"end":554.168,"text":"也是國民黨占多數雖然國民黨一直喜歡講說當家不鬧事當家不鬧事但是從地方上的執政首長再到立法院的席次多數的都是國民黨啊總預算現在也卡在他們的手上我不知道院長您知不知道今天剛剛星期二我們有程序委員會"},{"start":555.208,"end":576.75,"text":"但是程序委員會依舊沒有決定星期五的程序。星期五現在院會要處理什麼其實是不知道的。而本席呢在6分鐘之後質詢結束我們就要來討論總預算經過了我們這35位朝野立委的詢答之後有沒有機會復委。我想院長今天被問了好幾次。"},{"start":577.931,"end":597.464,"text":"現在聽到這裡,我們也看到其實地方上懇切的希望能夠預算復違。院長,您認為等一下預算復違的機率高嗎?或者是如果預算不復違,當我們看到的是地方不斷的請院長、請總統、請部長能夠給預算、給治水、幫幫忙,那到底要怎麼辦?院長。"},{"start":606.139,"end":634.07,"text":"我看到現場委員一片祥和、其樂融融那等一下應該是會好的發展明年的農業部所拿的這個災損金災害的補助基金明年度編了39.61億元39.61億元將近40億元我們希望它不要用但是天然災害不可能我們願意把它花在最需要的地方最快的速度"},{"start":634.912,"end":657.084,"text":"我再次感謝陳建仁前院長他能夠在去年就合訂了藍綠的電纜地下化而且綠島也在做表示我們的這個公共建設社會案任性是全面性的不分族群、不分地域、不分縣市、不分黨派我希望各位委員能夠支持我們明年還是在這樣的原則底下"},{"start":657.924,"end":684.94,"text":"通過總預算,我們緊緊地為人民做所有復國利民的法案跟政策,希望大家大願能夠支持。好,最後的4分半鐘,我也要幫卓院長跟我們這一次114年度的總預算來做一個說明。為什麼我剛剛一直在講,地方根本就是國民黨執政,因為國民黨的執政縣市超過半數,高達14席,民眾黨有2席,民進黨只有5席。"},{"start":687.521,"end":712.528,"text":"我們在113年度的時候我們的中央政府總預算是有補助地方的這個還不包含昨天在財政委員會上所上演的荒謬鬧劇張偉成、郁真突然間就毀棄了跟各黨團的協商跑去洗來燈然後回來之後就要暗度成章要用擴權法案的方式"},{"start":713.288,"end":732.177,"text":"一樣偷偷摸摸的要偷渡財劃法可是事實上一邊卡總預算一邊要偷渡財劃法其實只是要搞亂我們的財政國家財政我們來看到113年度中央政府編列了2302億元要補助給地方"},{"start":735.916,"end":752.948,"text":"一百一十四年度也有高達兩千五百零一億元要補助給地方所以其實這些都是中央展現對地方的支持對嗎那麼面對像現在其實"},{"start":753.729,"end":754.169,"text":"我們在明年度"},{"start":782.401,"end":811.353,"text":"包括統籌包括一般性的補助給地方的超過一兆總數達到一兆零一百五十一億元同時我們在明年度想要展開的全國六大區域的治理計畫那是跨縣市的而且是連續性的如果沒有一個長遠的計畫沒有一個中央的統籌各縣市實在是無法單獨作業的所以我希望從這兩個角度來看中央會持續加碼給地方所需要的各種照顧"},{"start":812.293,"end":819.778,"text":"本席也特別找了資料就是其實過去這8年來中央給地方的補助是逐年的在做增加而且這8年來有高達了2000多億所以面對"},{"start":840.07,"end":866.459,"text":"國民黨在明天的財政委員會可能要持續的推進才化法那麼院長這裡又怎麼來看因為一手黨中央總預算一手又要用空白授權的方式在水平分配22個縣市在分配標準沒有達到共識的情況底下如果推進院長您認為這對國家財政到底會造成什麼樣的影響"},{"start":867.671,"end":881.873,"text":"我的信念是如果這次向大院報告過中央政府總預算之後能夠順利的復違那表示我們提出的說明也被大家接受了未來大院在討論到財政收支劃分法的時候"},{"start":882.765,"end":907.523,"text":"行政院當然也會非常願意跟大院一起來討論如何強化財政力提升競爭力用這個方式讓所有財政狀況比較不好的縣市能夠在未來行政院統籌底下能夠提升他的財政力這是當前最重要的要務之一我們會朝這個方向來做向大院來據理說明清楚"},{"start":908.783,"end":935.091,"text":"我只希望身為立法委員我們也知道我們的職責在這個預算會期在12月31號就要截止本會期立委最重要的工作就是審預算沒有預算可審的立法院其實就是跟膠著性的空轉其實是沒有兩樣所以我也希望接下來能夠有好結果可以順利附委審查預算謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1749,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（17時24分）謝謝主席，主席，有請卓榮泰卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：院長好，院長辛苦了。院長，我質詢你已經不是第一次，但這一次我最緊張，因為很少質詢的時候有這麼多立委同僚在現場，所以身兼最後一棒，我自己壓力很大。但是我們都知道，身為立法院立委的職權，在這個會期其實就是審總預算，但是目前總預算因為還沒有付委，這兩天其實大家都是針對一個編列的形式性來做詢答，其實無法進入真正的細節，剛剛前面很多國民黨委員特別提到的，不論是禁伐補償、農糧收購或者是健保點數，其實這些政策的預算都重要，沒有不重要的，但就是編列的過程到底合不合法、合不合規？我想身為立法委員，自己訂定法律，合法是非常重要的，就像行政單位也是一樣的。","那麼質詢了兩天之後，面對在野黨所提出來的疑問，因為剛剛有一些委員也不太願意讓院長多做說明，院長，我是最後一棒，前面有無法、時間上或者是沒有讓您回答的，您認為在預算編列上面到底還有什麼您在詢答中未盡回應的部分，要不要藉這個時間您再來回應一下，就是到底如何來看？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常謝謝委員給我這個機會，事實上，在上一次的中央政府預算報告案當中，我們除了指出預算編制過程裡面的重點之外，我們把大家關心的禁伐補償、健保點數跟公糧收購特別用了相當篇幅做文字說明，這個說明就代表行政院最終的立場，也是我們唯一的原則。其中健保點數跟公糧補助面對的是在審查法案過程當中對行政院的主決議，我們未來會努力提升點數以及用農業部所提出的各項措施來照顧農民的權益。","至於禁伐補償這一項，容許我再次強調，只要雙方未來在憲法第七十條的精神底下，依預算法第九十一條，立法院在審查法案的時候，對於增加歲出要跟行政院徵詢意見，更重要的是，要指名彌補資金之來源，必要時候再去修改相關的法律，只要履行這樣的程序，出來的預算或法案行政院必定遵守。這一次我們認為內容上、過程上有所疏忽，但是我們願意用現在提出的方式，只要大家確立剛剛憲法與法律的原則、精神跟規定，我們現在又願意用基金的方式、二備金的方式，或者是未來追加預算的方式。但究竟用什麼樣的方式，大院裡面的委員都還有不同的意見，所以我看到這麼多委員在現場，我相信、我也期待等一下會有一個協商的過程，我們就把這個方式定下來，行政院在前面的原則定好之後，就願意依後面這種方式來做解決。未來兩院之間就基於這樣的共識、這樣的互相尊重，行政院尊重立法院的審議權、立法院尊重行政院的預算權，我們就能夠好好的從預算、法案各方面來聯手創造更多福國利民的政策！"],["林委員楚茵：為什麼本席願意花將近5分鐘的時間讓院長完整來陳述？我覺得在這個議事殿堂當中，我身為最後一棒，因為等一下也不確定到底朝野黨團經過協商之後，在我10分鐘的質詢之後預算能不能真的付委，但是至少我們不要再被斷章取義，行政院沒有不發禁伐補償，只是在編列的過程中必須兩院有一定的智慧讓它合法來進行，這是國家不論在立法或行政當中非常重要的一個過程，我這樣的詮釋對嗎，院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：完全正確，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：因為本席來自於媒體，非常關注的當然就是媒體的一些報導，我們知道其實臺灣歷經了山陀兒，然後再來是康芮，接下來銀杏颱風也要來了，本席特別看了這幾天的報導就發現，其實各地的風災確實都造成了農損，院長可以看一下，康芮的農損高達2.3億，這是雲林縣政府；然後包括二期水稻也有將近7億的農損；宜蘭也有農民親自跟賴清德總統呼籲、希望能夠進行補貼；包括桃園、臺東等等。我知道從總統到院長、再到農業部，甚至於交通部，其實這幾天都在進行勘災，這些縣市我不知道院長有沒有發現一個共通點，就是颱風侵襲，不分藍綠，所有遭受損失的農民也沒有在分顏色，其實大家期望的就是希望中央能夠給予補助，今天已經來到了11月5號，我想問的是，今年在農損的補助上面，我們的預算充足嗎？因為眼看銀杏颱風又要來了。"],["卓院長榮泰：農業部的災損金已經全部用完了，我請部長報告。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我們年度編列的天然災害災損金是27.1億，但是因為氣候變遷的關係，其實從年初到包括上個颱風，已經超過100項災損的通報，所以我們缺了大概56億，56億的部分大概也報行政院，也獲得行政院同意，所以我們現在今年度整個天然災害的預算是83.14億，足夠應付到年底。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以言下之意就是只能到年底。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["林委員楚茵：如果現在114年的總預算不趕快付委的話，因為現在極端氣候，也不知道這個天氣的變化、天象變化會如何，其實各縣市的農民們都眼巴巴的希望政府能夠提供補助，不論是總統或院長這幾天到民間都聽到了這樣的呼喚，但是本席特別整理了一下，我們知道總預算卡關，但是其實地方可能都在嗷嗷待哺，我們來追溯一下歷史，過去總預算通常是在10月就會進行詢答，很少到現在11月的，也就是說剩下一個多月的時間，到底總預算能不能過關呢？我們來看一下，以地方來講，剛剛特別提到了我從報紙所整理出來的，從桃園、宜蘭、臺東、雲林，其實執政縣市的都是國民黨的黨籍，我剛剛也講了風災、風損無情，不分藍綠，現在我們來看的話，地方上22個縣市，國民黨就超過了14個縣市，還有2席是民眾黨以及無黨籍，民進黨只有5席耶！如果說現在總預算不過關的話，很多都說民進黨當家不鬧事，但是院長，我們看到的是，在地方上就是國民黨的縣市首長居多，如果接下來總預算再不過關的話，我也希望趁現在大院最後的6分鐘，我質詢完之後就會針對總預算來付委。","然後我們來看立法院，其實從席次來看，也是國民黨占多數，雖然國民黨一直喜歡講說當家不鬧事、當家不鬧事，但是從地方上的執政首長再到立法院的席次，多數都是國民黨，總預算現在也卡在他們的手上，我不知道院長知不知道今天星期二，我們剛剛有程序委員會，但是程序委員會依舊沒有決定星期五的程序，星期五院會要處理什麼，其實是不知道的，而本席6分鐘之後質詢結束，我們就要來討論總預算，經過了我們這35位朝野立委的詢答之後，有沒有機會付委。","我想院長今天被問了好幾次，現在聽到這裡，我們也看到地方上懇切的希望預算能夠付委，院長，您認為等一下預算付委的機率高嗎？或者是如果預算不付委，當我們看到的是地方不斷的請院長、請總統、請部長能夠給預算、給治水、幫幫忙，那到底要怎麼辦？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我看到現場委員一片祥和、其樂融融，等一下應該是會往好的發展，明年農業部所轄的災損金、災害的補助基金，明年度編了39.61億元，將近40億元，我們希望它不要用，但是不可能沒有天然災害，我們願意把它花在最需要的地方、以最快的速度。","我再次感謝陳建仁前院長，他能夠在去年就核定了蘭嶼的電纜地下化，而且綠島也在做，表示我們這個公共建設社會韌性是全面性的，不分族群、不分地域、不分縣市、不分黨派，我希望各位委員能夠支持，我們還是要在這樣的原則底下通過明年度的總預算，我們緊緊的為人民做所有福國利民的法案和政策，希望大院能夠支持。"],["林委員楚茵：最後的4分半鐘，我也要幫卓院長跟這一次114年度的總預算來做一個說明，為什麼我剛剛一直在講地方根本就是國民黨執政？因為國民黨的執政縣市超過半數，高達14席，民眾黨有2席，民進黨只有5席。在113年度的時候，中央政府總預算是有補助地方的，這個還不包含昨天在財政委員會上所上演的荒謬鬧劇，召委陳玉珍突然間就毀棄了跟各黨團的協商，跑去喜來登，然後回來之後就要暗渡陳倉，要用擴權法案的方式，一樣偷偷摸摸的要偷渡財劃法。可是事實上，一邊卡總預算、一邊要偷渡財劃法，其實只是要搞亂我們的國家財政。","我們看到，113年度中央政府編列了2,302億元要補助給地方，114年度也有高達2,501億元要補助給地方，其實這些都是中央展現對地方的支持，對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["林委員楚茵：那麼面對像現在其實地方上多數都是國民黨執政的時候，這樣的預算卡關，對地方好嗎？因為我昨天在財政委員會，我一直聽到的是國民黨的委員都說，地方政府是用乞丐的方式，苦苦的在跟行政院哀求，然後行政院是用施以恩惠的方式來給予地方補助，真是如此嗎？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在明年度包括統籌、包括一般性的補助，給地方的超過1兆，總數達到1兆151億元；同時，我們在明年度想要展開的全國六大區域治理計畫，那是跨縣市的，而且是連續性的，如果沒有一個長遠的計畫、沒有中央的統籌，各縣市實在是無法單獨作業的。所以我希望從這兩個角度來看，中央會持續加碼給地方所需要的各種照顧、各種福利、各種必要的法定支出，也會加重地方各種的重大公共建設，這個無庸置疑，就讓我們有充裕的時間、有合理的預算，加上大院的強烈監督，我們一同來完成這樣的工作。"],["林委員楚茵：本席也特別找了資料，其實過去這八年來，中央給地方的補助是逐年在增加，而且這八年來高達了兩千多億，所以面對國民黨在明天的財政委員會可能要持續地推進財劃法，那麼院長這裡又怎麼看？因為一手擋中央總預算，一手又要用空白授權的方式，水平分配22個縣市在分配標準沒有達到共識的情況底下，如果推進，院長，您認為這對國家財政到底會造成什麼樣的影響？"],["卓院長榮泰：我的信念是，如果這一次向大院報告過中央政府總預算之後，能夠順利的付委，那表示我們提出的說明也被大家接受了，未來大院在討論到財政收支劃分法的時候，行政院當然也會非常願意跟大院一起來討論如何強化財政力、提升競爭力，用這個方式讓所有財政狀況比較不好的縣市，能夠在未來行政院統籌之下提升它的財政力，這是當前最重要的要務之一，我們會朝這個方向來做，向大院來據理說明清楚。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我身為立法委員，我們也知道我們的職責，這個預算會期在12月31號就要截止，本會期立委最重要的工作就是審預算，沒有預算可審的立法院，其實就跟膠著性的空轉沒有兩樣，所以我也希望接下來能夠有好結果，可以順利付委，審查預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」之質詢均已詢答完畢，非常感謝卓院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。","報告院會，現在已將近6點鐘會議時間，我們先處理延長會議之提議。","現有國民黨黨團提議，針對本日會議（11月5日）提出延長開會時間至「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」相關事宜處理完畢始散會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156517","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156517","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d4129a5c681ab0d7350e3fd33acf0e4cf8bf094adffc7b89f095a7e32037ed90a385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"17:07:33 - 17:23:32","影片長度":"00:15:59","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T17:07:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T17:23:32+08:00","duration":959,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.30721875,"end":23.200343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.21284375,"end":25.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.40534375,"end":35.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.13096875,"end":45.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.59346875,"end":46.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.314718750000004,"end":49.525343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.710968750000006,"end":51.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.056593750000005,"end":53.018468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.119718750000004,"end":54.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.773468750000006,"end":61.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.156593750000006,"end":66.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.58596875,"end":67.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.01596875,"end":76.47471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.00659375000001,"end":78.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.32659375,"end":80.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.54159375,"end":82.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.90409375,"end":84.28784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.67596875000001,"end":85.92471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.88659375,"end":87.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.97909375,"end":91.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.78034375,"end":93.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.90659375,"end":96.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.18034375,"end":99.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.50909375,"end":101.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.10784375,"end":107.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.19971875,"end":112.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.02596875,"end":114.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.57846875000001,"end":115.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.16034375000001,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.39596875000001,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.42534375000001,"end":122.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.06659375000001,"end":123.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.97346875000001,"end":126.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.06596875000001,"end":131.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.97659375,"end":134.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.03096875,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.54534375,"end":138.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.04721875,"end":141.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.69659375,"end":142.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.18159375000002,"end":146.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.26534375,"end":150.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.12971875000002,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.10846875000001,"end":154.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.70721875,"end":158.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.41971875000002,"end":161.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.76096875000002,"end":164.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.42284375,"end":170.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.56534375,"end":172.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.57784375,"end":173.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.26534375,"end":175.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.17659375000002,"end":176.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.62346875,"end":178.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.22659375,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.11221875,"end":183.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.08659375000002,"end":185.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.01034375,"end":187.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.24221875,"end":193.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.30846875,"end":195.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.01721875,"end":197.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.53596875000002,"end":207.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.62034375000002,"end":198.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.15096875,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.87221875,"end":207.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.31909375,"end":211.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.11596875,"end":212.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.23409375,"end":215.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.84159375000002,"end":215.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.54159375,"end":215.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.64284375000003,"end":216.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.38534375,"end":216.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.16159375,"end":220.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.75596875000002,"end":222.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.32534375,"end":222.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.37596875000003,"end":224.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.40096875,"end":233.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.59784375,"end":234.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.31909375,"end":239.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.67284375000003,"end":241.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.18721875000003,"end":244.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.70159375000003,"end":247.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.58721875,"end":250.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.72596875000002,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.00409375,"end":254.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.23596875,"end":255.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.73784375000002,"end":256.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.45909375,"end":258.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.96096875,"end":259.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.14221875000004,"end":261.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.84659375,"end":262.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.75784375,"end":265.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":265.62659375000004,"end":265.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.93034375,"end":269.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":267.19596875,"end":268.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.02284375,"end":268.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":268.73159375,"end":268.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.03096875,"end":270.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.06471875,"end":270.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.11534375,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.34721875,"end":274.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.33409375,"end":274.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.53659375,"end":275.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.66721875,"end":276.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.30409375,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.56534375,"end":281.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.21909375,"end":284.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.30284375,"end":291.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.87221875,"end":287.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.25971875,"end":295.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.96784375000004,"end":298.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.70159375000003,"end":300.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.79409375,"end":301.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.04284375000003,"end":305.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.19034375,"end":304.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.44721875000005,"end":313.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.51471875000004,"end":308.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.09596875,"end":313.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.60221875,"end":313.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.63596875,"end":313.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.70346875,"end":313.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.83846875,"end":313.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.87221875,"end":314.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.07471875000005,"end":314.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.31096875000003,"end":314.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.42909375,"end":327.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.58096875,"end":314.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.59596875,"end":327.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.23721875,"end":330.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.82346875,"end":329.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.42221875,"end":333.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.45596875,"end":332.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.81846875,"end":338.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":333.97034375000004,"end":334.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.64034375,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.46284375000005,"end":342.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.45409375,"end":344.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.15846875,"end":349.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.42784375,"end":349.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.93409375000005,"end":351.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.97596875000005,"end":352.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.00534375,"end":356.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.08971875000003,"end":354.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":354.97971875,"end":355.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.98784375,"end":358.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.02159375,"end":357.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":357.03846875000005,"end":357.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.89909375,"end":357.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":358.23659375,"end":358.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.62471875,"end":358.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":358.96221875000003,"end":359.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.01284375,"end":367.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.97471875,"end":360.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.78034375000004,"end":362.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.07971875000004,"end":363.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.38284375,"end":376.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.15471875000003,"end":370.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.69784375,"end":387.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.01846875,"end":378.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.27409375,"end":388.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.38784375,"end":390.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.09221875000003,"end":392.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.80909375000005,"end":397.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.60159375,"end":403.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.84971875,"end":410.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.12284375,"end":416.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.28659375,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.55659375000005,"end":419.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.77159375,"end":419.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.15096875,"end":430.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.38596875,"end":430.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.05221875,"end":433.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.98846875000004,"end":435.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.42721875,"end":437.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.26659375,"end":439.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.11846875000003,"end":439.23659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.62034375,"end":443.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":442.20659375,"end":442.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.60284375000003,"end":446.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.33659375,"end":450.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.54284375000003,"end":457.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.78221875,"end":458.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.89596875,"end":462.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.43971875000005,"end":465.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":465.37596875,"end":472.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.76721875000004,"end":475.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.77096875,"end":478.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.31471875000005,"end":481.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.65596875000006,"end":483.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.03971875,"end":484.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.72721875,"end":488.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.22034375000004,"end":492.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.08471875000004,"end":493.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.40096875,"end":495.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.88596875,"end":496.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.11784375,"end":499.14284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.68284375,"end":500.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.86409375000005,"end":501.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.91471875,"end":502.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.51784375000005,"end":502.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.71596875000006,"end":506.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.99846875000003,"end":505.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.74096875000004,"end":513.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.72346875000005,"end":511.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.14909375,"end":514.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.4440937500001,"end":515.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.52846875,"end":517.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.56221875,"end":515.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.7978437500001,"end":523.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.1728437500001,"end":525.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.23596875,"end":527.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.1765937499999,"end":527.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.2565937500001,"end":527.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.47596875,"end":527.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":527.49284375,"end":534.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.78284375,"end":535.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.0990937500001,"end":542.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.9797187500001,"end":546.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.62471875,"end":550.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.93221875,"end":553.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.4084687500001,"end":576.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.02534375,"end":576.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.85221875,"end":578.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.8647187500001,"end":579.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.8178437500001,"end":581.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.99471875,"end":584.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.0959687500001,"end":584.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.7665937500001,"end":585.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.0703437500001,"end":586.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.4540937500001,"end":590.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.9765937500001,"end":594.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.3984687500001,"end":595.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.72284375,"end":595.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.3303437500001,"end":595.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.53284375,"end":595.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.54971875,"end":595.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.56659375,"end":596.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.4609687500001,"end":598.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.89096875,"end":599.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.93721875,"end":603.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.1897187500001,"end":604.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.2065937500001,"end":604.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.4428437500001,"end":604.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.4765937500001,"end":604.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.4934687500001,"end":604.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.51034375,"end":607.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.52721875,"end":607.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.78409375,"end":610.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.19721875,"end":611.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.85096875,"end":613.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.7240937500001,"end":620.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.0234687500001,"end":615.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.25034375,"end":634.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.2947187500001,"end":645.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.7865937500001,"end":654.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.18596875,"end":655.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.02971875,"end":657.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.39221875,"end":669.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.7040937500001,"end":661.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":661.0247187500001,"end":661.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.61534375,"end":661.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.90096875,"end":686.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":670.0359687499999,"end":670.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.0734687500001,"end":674.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":684.70034375,"end":685.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.07971875,"end":688.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.37909375,"end":689.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.77971875,"end":690.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.6572187500001,"end":692.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.74971875,"end":695.0615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.6015937500001,"end":696.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.6140937499999,"end":697.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.06534375,"end":698.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.43221875,"end":699.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.0859687500001,"end":702.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.43159375,"end":704.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.0347187500001,"end":706.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.77284375,"end":707.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.6459687500001,"end":710.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.39659375,"end":711.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.66221875,"end":713.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.52284375,"end":717.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.57284375,"end":718.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.6909687500001,"end":721.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.26034375,"end":722.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.66909375,"end":731.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.7234687499999,"end":725.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":725.74034375,"end":726.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.08534375,"end":733.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.8022187500001,"end":735.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.9497187500001,"end":736.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.01284375,"end":739.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.6453437499999,"end":742.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.93221875,"end":740.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.67034375,"end":742.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.9697187500001,"end":744.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.33659375,"end":746.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.1884687500001,"end":748.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.99409375,"end":750.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.3059687500001,"end":753.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.05659375,"end":754.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.9340937500001,"end":757.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.7859687499999,"end":763.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":761.78534375,"end":761.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":761.8022187500001,"end":763.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.02971875,"end":767.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":768.2822187500001,"end":770.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.10909375,"end":770.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":770.76284375,"end":770.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":770.8640937499999,"end":770.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":770.91471875,"end":773.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.87221875,"end":773.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.0659687500001,"end":776.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.1922187499999,"end":778.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.8628437500001,"end":779.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.16221875,"end":782.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.5247187500001,"end":784.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.6172187500001,"end":785.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.20346875,"end":787.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.7053437500001,"end":789.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.13534375,"end":791.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.68784375,"end":793.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.9197187500001,"end":796.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":794.9953437500001,"end":795.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":796.2778437500001,"end":797.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":798.1340937500001,"end":798.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.9778437500001,"end":798.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":798.99471875,"end":799.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.02846875,"end":799.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":799.83846875,"end":799.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.14221875,"end":803.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":800.3784687500001,"end":802.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.24284375,"end":805.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.77846875,"end":811.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":812.0222187500001,"end":812.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.37221875,"end":814.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.4015937500001,"end":815.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":815.3972187500001,"end":817.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":818.3840937500001,"end":819.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.5022187500001,"end":824.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.20159375,"end":826.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.2690937500001,"end":825.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.2434687500001,"end":829.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":829.8928437500001,"end":831.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.68159375,"end":832.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.03159375,"end":833.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.2803437500002,"end":835.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.2422187500001,"end":837.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":838.0434687500001,"end":839.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.68034375,"end":843.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.62909375,"end":844.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":845.43471875,"end":846.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.56096875,"end":848.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.97846875,"end":852.2859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.0034687500001,"end":851.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":852.7922187500001,"end":858.1584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":853.5347187500001,"end":858.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":858.8334687500001,"end":862.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":862.44471875,"end":866.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":866.5790937500001,"end":870.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.6797187500001,"end":882.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.98159375,"end":884.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.55096875,"end":885.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.1709687500002,"end":886.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.4028437500001,"end":889.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.0690937500001,"end":891.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.3134687500001,"end":904.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":904.76721875,"end":906.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":906.8259687500001,"end":908.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":908.71596875,"end":910.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":910.94346875,"end":914.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":915.04409375,"end":916.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":916.74846875,"end":919.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.6172187500001,"end":923.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.73471875,"end":924.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":924.61221875,"end":926.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":925.9453437500001,"end":933.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.6328437500001,"end":931.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":933.8428437500002,"end":940.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":940.10346875,"end":941.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":940.1372187500001,"end":940.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":941.1665937500002,"end":942.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":942.9722187500001,"end":943.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.73159375,"end":943.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":944.72721875,"end":945.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":945.6384687500001,"end":947.4947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.85784375,"end":945.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":947.4947187500002,"end":950.8697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":947.51159375,"end":947.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":951.17346875,"end":954.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":954.8859687500001,"end":955.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":957.9740937500001,"end":958.9697187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.689,"end":14.87,"text":"請卓院長備詢"},{"start":34.445,"end":36.006,"text":"第一次能源轉型我們到底真正的促成了臺灣這個再生能源的發展"},{"start":52.096,"end":67.207,"text":"那速度上當然沒有像本來預設的那麼快但是我們覺得在2026年的時候我們可以補足現在的目標換句話說你這麼回答就是說小英政府的這個能源政策他是有待改進的空間"},{"start":69.116,"end":87.75,"text":"凡事起頭難。所以先前有一段時間進度比較慢的,我們有可有把握在2026年。先前有一段時間進度比較慢,本席告訴你,民眾的感受,本席的感受是失敗的。是失敗的,為什麼?執政八年,火力八成。"},{"start":89.011,"end":115.14,"text":"就這八個字我告訴你是失敗的所以我們看到雖然是失敗但是前任的部長王美花部長還有作為他說增氣就減煤所以他同時也在這個2021年的時候呢他也特別來提出了他特別提出什麼呢也就是說要達到雙贏的政策所以我告訴院長我們看看現在"},{"start":117.213,"end":145.582,"text":"中火的燃氣機組的二期環評通過了?是是通過了?是臺中人的肺怎麼辦呢?臺中人的健康怎麼辦呢?我用數據告訴你數據告訴你六部的燃氣機組一部1300MW再加上民間電廠中家600所以換句話說如果以這樣加總起來是8400MW"},{"start":147.381,"end":176.244,"text":"十部的燃煤基礎一部550MW裝置容量十部5500MW所以換句話說你如果六部的燃煤基礎燃氣全開那麼是8400要加上這個宗家的民營電廠的600所以換句話說是目前我們的燃煤基礎的總裝置量的1.5倍1.5倍所以我要請教本市要請教卓議員長"},{"start":177.654,"end":193.343,"text":"王美花部長的GAS有所作為您為什麼不能做呢?您為什麼不能做呢?我們現在有在做啊您為什麼不能做?我們在2027年我們會剩下兩部燃氣加六部燃煤的基礎"},{"start":195.356,"end":196.477,"text":"二、三、五年度不能進一組。"},{"start":208.356,"end":232.534,"text":"你剛才說的第一次轉型困難我告訴你是失敗的因為再一次強調直升8年火力8成所以我再一次告訴你如果依照你目前的作為王美花部長可以做現在的卓議院長不做在這樣情況之下你的二次能源轉型我告訴你你會轉出一個最大的火力發電廠"},{"start":233.675,"end":259.311,"text":"最大的火力發電廠所以因此我要告訴你我要告訴你爭氣、戰慮你卻不減煤王美鳳部長當時提出當時提出請卓院長你注意聽他當時提出規劃第一步的燃氣機組運轉成功之後隔年我們就可以做減煤拆掉一支煙囪把燃煤機組拆除"},{"start":260.351,"end":271.746,"text":"這是王美花部長當時,所以我在上個禮拜在經濟委員會也特別問了郭部長以及曾董事長,他說會,他一定會落實這個承諾,對不對?你本席,你聽本席說"},{"start":277.333,"end":279.775,"text":"王美花部長說雙贏政策也就是爭氣"},{"start":300.868,"end":302.769,"text":"六部是備用一年最高"},{"start":333.337,"end":354.95,"text":"好!你說這一個備用我告訴你我們繼續來討論臺電公司告訴我們說因應國安的考慮所以必須要保留六部的藍莓基礎對不對?是這麼說嗎?是嗎?是嗎?那我們國安部長的時代就沒有國安問題囉!"},{"start":358.427,"end":370.34,"text":"報告委員,請你回答,我要跟卓院長來討論原則的問題。所以我要請教你們現在的能源政策就是如此,就是增期不減煤。所以我請問我們的卓院長,請問你們備用啟用的標準的時機是什麼?"},{"start":376.807,"end":377.748,"text":"依照電力設施以及空氣汙染"},{"start":393.854,"end":417.647,"text":"部的一個排放標準我們的第二條第11款裡頭規定緊急備用的電力設施也就是單一基礎你一年可以有720小時換句話說你的六部燃煤基礎的備用你每一年都能夠有一個月足足一個月的一個容量去運作所以在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":420.268,"end":443.262,"text":"你每一部藍莓機組每一年都可以開足足一個月這是法定規定目前法定規定對不對上限所以有需要的時候才會法定規定所以本席要請教你每一年一部機車子有備胎一樣有需要的時候才會換備胎沒有請他回答請不要佔據本席的時間"},{"start":444.962,"end":464.967,"text":"臺中人的健康臺中人的肺請院長你要注意啊你要關心啊我們實質理性的來討論每一臺藍莓基礎每一年可以當轉運轉一個月一個月環境部部長你坐在這裡你站在這裡你是最需要照顧人民的健康啊"},{"start":465.427,"end":481.381,"text":"報告委員,他的空污是顯著的減量,然後他的燃煤也顯著的減少,40跟30都很明確的。好,我會再繼續跟你討論。編長,我講白了一句話,你就是怕缺電,所以你要犧牲我們台中人的健康。"},{"start":482.725,"end":486.349,"text":"會在你的備用量6%以下才可以運轉嗎?會在你的AQI指標80%以下才運轉嗎?會不會?"},{"start":503.752,"end":504.272,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":519.824,"end":532.192,"text":"你現在的能源政策從王美娥部長到現在展率時程都慢了所以我們真的很緊張拜託院會尊重發言委員的質詢請大家輕聲細語好嗎拜託拜託拜託請大家輕聲細語尊重質詢委員的質詢權謝謝 要不然請繼續時間繼續"},{"start":544.011,"end":566.983,"text":"所以院長我再請教卓院長我們非常的理性來討論臺中人關鍵的議題也就是說請問你剛才所開的條件不清不楚你說需要的時候你就會可以啟動我也告訴你依法每一部的藍莓機組每一年可以一個月720小時所以請教院長"},{"start":567.643,"end":578.277,"text":"如果你們要運轉的時候你要啟用的時候請教院長你會不會徵詢臺中市政府的意見請教院長報告委員我可以請教卓院長關鍵性的問題"},{"start":585.14,"end":596.711,"text":"你會徵詢嗎?你會不會徵詢?我跟委員報告一個最關鍵的問題我不會不比你關心台中好!謝謝你的關心請問你會不會徵詢?請問你會不會徵詢?我的習慣是台中市委員知道嗎?請問你既然是台中市你更應該要關心請問你會不會徵詢?"},{"start":604.215,"end":605.097,"text":"請問你會不會徵詢?依照辦法必須徵詢"},{"start":613.752,"end":633.131,"text":"依照辦法必須徵詢你也是台中人所以我繼續要告訴你政府沒有講出真相政府沒有講出真相剛剛我們說的如果燃氣全面開的時候我告訴你我們的還說書我們的環境部長你在這裡請你講真相"},{"start":634.592,"end":635.093,"text":"編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。：楊瓊瓔"},{"start":655.271,"end":673.321,"text":"所以臺中人的行政院長請你正視這個問題因為改善空汙是政府的責任所以我希望我們的綠電發展趕不上社會所需求的時候你應該要冷靜的去思考因為PM2.5"},{"start":675.942,"end":699.845,"text":"PM2.5 懸浮歷史WHO裡頭認定一級的致癌物環境部部長請你耳朵聽明顯的會減量了我沒有請你講話所以請你看看先生院長你看到我們台中市台中市的死亡率什麼最高癌症臺灣的三冠王肺癌"},{"start":701.164,"end":711.444,"text":"三冠王不管是人數不管是發聲率通通都是最高所以因此你剛才所說的你是台中人你當"},{"start":712.911,"end":734.873,"text":"當你當上了行政院院長應該要重視我們臺中中國的運動中國的運動因為我告訴你方法你告訴我方法我告訴你數據台灣現在的肺癌肺腺癌是世界各國國外的3到5倍是3到5倍喔所以因此院長"},{"start":735.947,"end":753.205,"text":"我希望王美花院長部長可以做的在你左院長你又是台中人你應該更要做就是這個一模一樣啊所以院長你們現在的能源政策能源政策就是什麼總統當吸票機我們人民當什麼吸塵器"},{"start":754.994,"end":756.275,"text":"所提出來的重大建設"},{"start":777.233,"end":789.907,"text":"或是所提出來的各種政策,不能夠違背健康原則。在這種健康原則之下,沒有第二句話,臺中的中火應該要陸續除疫的,更積極地用再生能源取而代之。"},{"start":798.114,"end":824.872,"text":"陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝陸續廚藝"},{"start":825.196,"end":825.416,"text":"那不是說總統講的嗎?"},{"start":847.611,"end":869.934,"text":"是行政院長欸!總統講的!總統講叫你趕快除役!今天環評通過的並非中國美化部長要雙贏政策!剛剛委員放的影片裡面總統說的跟這個結果就一模一樣啊!六氣發電,六煤儆備,就是這樣子啊!左院長,你說你剛才特別告訴我你是台中人"},{"start":870.734,"end":870.814,"text":"環境部長"},{"start":887.378,"end":914.544,"text":"的態度讓我們覺得你沒有為我們的環境在努力請你看看我們台中人我們肺腺癌的人數肺腺癌的發生率尤其WHO說了pH2.5就是最大的致癌的這個重要因子所以請你將心比心你在這邊不是跟我辯而是要去維護你的政策是正確的所以卓議員長本期再次強調剛剛你說的"},{"start":916.784,"end":943.347,"text":"就是未來啟動的時候,備用啟動,你會徵詢台中市政府,是不是?剛剛你說了,你要徵詢台中市政府的同意嘛,是不是?你要徵詢台中市政府的同意,卓院長,是不是?你要徵詢台中市政府的同意才得商轉備容量的一個備用,對不對?要徵詢台中市政府的同意,對不對?"},{"start":944.548,"end":958.968,"text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1622,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（17時7分）謝謝敬愛的院長、行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊、新聞界的朋友、各位同仁，楊瓊瓔發言。首先邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。院長，首先請問我們的能源政策，小英總統執政8年的能源政策，你認為是成功的，還是失敗的？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一次能源轉型，我們到底真正地促成了臺灣再生能源的發展，速度上當然沒有像本來預設的那麼快，但是我們覺得在2026年的時候可以補足現在的目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以換句話說，你這麼回答就是說，小英政府的能源政策是有待改進的空間？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，凡事起頭難，所以先前有一段時間進度比較慢的，我們有把握在2026年……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：先前有一段時間進度比較慢，本席告訴你，民眾的感受、本席的感受是失敗的，是失敗的，為什麼？執政8年、火力八成，就這8個字，我告訴你是失敗的。我們看到雖然是失敗，但是前任的部長王美花部長還有作為，他說增氣就減煤，所以他同時也在2021年的時候特別提出了，他特別提出什麼呢？也就是說，要達到雙贏的政策。所以我告訴院長，我們看看現在，中火燃氣機組的二期環評通過了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是通過了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：臺中人的肺怎麼辦呢？臺中人的健康怎麼辦呢？我用數據告訴你，用數據告訴你。6部的燃氣機組，1部1,300MW，再加上民間電廠中佳600MW，所以換句話說，這樣加總起來是8,400MW，10部燃煤機組1部550MW裝置容量，10部就是5,500MW，如果6部燃氣機組全開是8,400MW，再加上中佳民營電廠的600MW，是目前我們的燃煤機組總裝置量的1.5倍，本席要請教卓院長，王美花部長的guts、有所作為，你為什麼不能做呢？你為什麼不能做呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在有在做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你為什麼不能做？"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊！我們在2027年會剩下2部燃氣加6部燃煤機組。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：錯！你的答案是錯的，我告訴你，我已經告訴你明明會增加這麼多的電，但是你還不願意做，所以我給你一個註解……"],["卓院長榮泰：到2035年6部燃氣機組……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你剛才說第一次轉型困難，我告訴你這是失敗的……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有失敗。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我再一次強調「執政八年、火力八成」。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就是50、30、20的目標，沒有失敗。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我再一次告訴你，如果依照你目前的作為，王美花部長可以做，現在的卓院長不做，在這樣情況之下，你的二次能源轉型，我告訴你，你會轉出一個最大的火力發電廠。因此，我要告訴你，增氣、展綠，卻不減煤，這是王美花部長當時提出的，請卓院長注意聽，他當時提出規劃第一部燃氣機組運轉成功之後，隔年我們就可以做減煤拆掉1隻煙囪，把燃煤機組拆除，這是王美花部長當時提出的。我上個禮拜在經濟委員會也特別問了郭部長以及曾董事長，他說會，他一定會落實這個承諾。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，26年就會拆燃煤機組。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你聽本席說，現在的增氣、減煤、展綠，但是你並沒有這樣做，你要保留6部的燃煤機組，第二期……"],["卓院長榮泰：那是備用。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好！你現在講到備用，我會繼續告訴你，我請問你一句話，王美花部長說「增氣、減煤」雙贏政策，穩定國內的供應……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯，時程就是這樣子……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：以及臺中減空污政策，這是達到雙贏，你認同王美花部長所說的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：時程就是這樣子。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果時程是這麼說，為什麼二期的部分你要保留6部燃煤機組呢？我已經明明白白地告訴你，你的裝置量能已經增加1.5倍……"],["卓院長榮泰：6部是備用，一年最高……"],["郭部長智輝：它不會同時進行工作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說這個是備用，我告訴你，我們繼續來討論，台電公司告訴我們，因應國安的考慮，所以必須要保留6部燃煤機組，對不對？是這麼說嗎？是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那王美花部長的時代就沒有國安問題了嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我跟你解釋可以嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有請你回答，我要跟卓院長討論原則的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們認為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我要請教你們現在的能源政策就是如此，就是增氣不減煤？"],["卓院長榮泰：能源政策就在這裡。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問我們的卓院長，請問你們備用啟用的標準與時機是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，因為國安的問題、天災的問題或是定期運轉保養的問題，但是每一年720小時的上限是不會突破的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：依照電力設施空氣污染物排放標準第二條第十一款規定，緊急備用的電力設施也就是單一機組一年可以有720小時。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，你的6部燃煤機組的備用，每一年都能夠有足足一個月的容量去運轉……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是有需要的時候的上限，不是一定會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在這樣的情況之下，每一部燃煤機組每一年都可以開足足一個月，這是法定規定，目前的法定規定，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：上限。"],["卓院長榮泰：有需要的時候才會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是法定規定，所以本席要請教……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，就像我們車子有備胎一樣……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：每一年一部機可以有足足一個月……"],["卓院長榮泰：有需要的時候才會換備胎。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席沒有請他回答，請不要占據本席的時間。臺中人的健康、臺中人的肺，請院長你要注意，你要關心啊！我們實質理性地來討論，每一部燃煤機組每一年可以運轉一個月，環境部部長你站在這裡，你是最需要照顧人民的健康啊！對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，空污是顯著地減量，然後燃煤也顯著地減少，40%跟30%都很明確的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我會再繼續跟你討論。院長，我講白了一句話，你就是怕缺電，所以你要犧牲我們臺中人的健康。再請教部長、再請教院長，您剛才說的緊急備用所有的條件，會在你的備用容量6%以下才可以運轉嗎？會在AQI指標80以下才運轉嗎？會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：它就是在有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：需要的時候運轉也受到上限的規定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就因為這個需要，讓我們心生恐懼啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：有受到上限的規定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：每一部燃煤機組每一年有一個月的合法運轉，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：它不需要的時候就不會運轉。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你現在的能源政策，從王美花部長到現在，展綠的時程都慢了……"],["主席：楊委員時間暫停……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們真的很緊張。"],["主席：楊瓊瓔委員，時間暫停。拜託院會尊重發言委員的質詢，請大家輕聲細語好嗎？拜託！拜託！拜託請大家輕聲細語，尊重質詢委員的質詢權，謝謝。楊委員請繼續，時間繼續。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我再請教卓院長，我們非常理性來討論臺中人關鍵的議題，請問你剛才所開的條件不清不楚，你說需要的時候就可以啟動，我也告訴你依法每一部燃煤機組每一年可以運轉一個月、720小時。所以請教院長，如果你們要運轉的時候、啟用的時候，你會不會徵詢臺中市政府的意見，請教院長？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我可以回答……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有請你說話！請教卓院長，這個關鍵性的問題，你會徵詢嗎？你會不會徵詢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員報告一個最關鍵的問題，我不會不比你關心臺中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝你的關心，請問你會不會徵詢……"],["卓院長榮泰：我身分證拿出來，我的籍貫是臺中市，委員知道嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問你會不會徵詢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我的籍貫是臺中市，委員知道嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你既然是臺中市，你更應該要關心，請問你會不會徵詢？當你要啟動備用機組時，你會不會徵詢？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照辦法必須徵詢，而且沒有必要的時候，我們不會去啟動。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問你會不會徵詢？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照辦法必須徵詢。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：依照辦法必須徵詢，你也是臺中人，所以我繼續要告訴你，政府沒有講出真相，剛剛我們說的如果燃氣全面開的時候，我告訴你，我們的環境部長你在這裡，請你講真相！環說書裡頭顯示中火燃氣一期及二期機組上線之後，電廠的溫室氣體排放總量會減少27%，這是對的，但是請你講真相，粒狀物會增加60%，所謂的粒狀物也就是致癌物，這是最嚴肅的一個議題。所以身為臺中人的行政院長，請你正視這個問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：這就是真相。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為改善空污是政府的責任，所以我希望我們的綠電發展趕不上社會需求的時候，你應該要冷靜地去思考。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員看一看數據，好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為PM2.5及懸浮微粒是WHO認定一級的致癌物，環境部部長，請你耳朵聽！所以因此……"],["彭部長啓明：明顯會減量了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我沒有請你講話！所以請行政院長看一看，你看到我們臺中市的死亡率什麼最高？癌症。臺灣癌症的三冠王是肺癌，不管是人數，不管是發生率，通通都是最高，因此您剛才所說的，你是臺中人，當你當上了行政院長，應該要重視我們臺中中火的議題……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我告訴你答案在這裡，我們的方法在這裡，委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為你告訴我方法，我告訴你數據。"],["卓院長榮泰：數據在這裡。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：臺灣現在的肺癌、肺腺癌是世界各國、國外的3到5倍，是3到5倍喔。因此院長，我希望王美花部長可以做的，在你卓院長任內，你又是臺中人，你應該更要做！"],["卓院長榮泰：就是這個，一模一樣啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以院長，你們現在的能源政策就是什麼？總統當吸票機，我們人民當什麼？吸塵器！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是的？我剛剛已經告訴你這個數字，環境部部長，你在那邊搖頭，你應該跟我們站在同一線！"],["彭部長啓明：我站在同一線，就是要看數據。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：保護我們的環境，保護我們的安全，增氣一定要減煤，你認同嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：減煤，已經承諾減煤了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：增氣一定要減媒，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：環評的要求，台電一定要減煤。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請看。","（播放影片）"],["卓院長榮泰：六氣發電、六煤緊備，就是這個啊！完全一樣啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：陸續除役、陸續除役……"],["卓院長榮泰：緊急備用……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請你尊重，本席還沒有請你發言。陸續除役、陸續除役，這是賴總統所說的，本席請問卓院長，你的除役是五年、十年，你的規劃時程是怎麼樣呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：2035年的時候就會六氣發電、六煤緊備。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要再欺騙老百姓了，六煤，為什麼王美花部長可以增一氣減一煤？為什麼你增的這些氣的裝置容量，你還是要保留這六部的燃煤機組？為什麼？請你告訴我，請你告訴我！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是總統講的嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是行政院長耶！總統講的，總統講叫你趕快除役！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是啊，剛剛委員放的影片裡面，總統講的跟委員說的一模一樣啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：今天環評通過的並非王美花部長所說的雙贏政策！"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員放的影片裡面，總統說的跟這個結果就一模一樣啊，六氣發電、六煤緊備，就是這樣子啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：卓院長，你剛才特別告訴我你是臺中人，我真的非常希望你重視，我不希望說行政院最速的跳票政策就是這個能源政策，這是不對的，這是不對的，請你冷靜再去思維，請你冷靜再思維。","環境部長，您的態度，讓我們覺得你沒有為我們的環境在努力，請你看看我們臺中人肺腺癌的人數、肺腺癌的發生率，尤其WHO說了PM2.5就是最大的致癌重要因子，所以請你將心比心，你在這邊不是跟我辯，而是要去維護你的政策正確。所以卓院長，本席再次強調，剛剛你說的，就是未來啟動的時候，備用啟動你會徵詢臺中市政府，是不是？剛剛你說了……"],["卓院長榮泰：照辦法就是要徵詢市政府。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要徵詢臺中市政府的同意嘛？是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長再說明一下。"],["彭部長啓明：這個按照程序過去都有了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是不是？你要徵詢臺中市政府的同意，卓院長，是不是？你要徵詢臺中市政府的同意才得商轉備用容量的……"],["卓院長榮泰：在緊急備用的情況底下……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要徵詢臺中市政府的同意，對不對？是不是？卓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：在緊急備用的情況底下……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要徵詢臺中市政府的同意嘛，是不是？我請你將你緊急備用的方案書面資料給本席，我們一起努力來做。"],["彭部長啓明：有現成的。"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊，現在就有。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。","接下來，我們請最後一位登記35號林楚茵委員質詢。","再次拜託各位委員，請輕聲細語，楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員，質詢結束了，小聲一點，謝謝，楊瓊瓔委員，你質詢結束了，麻煩小聲一點。","林楚茵委員，請。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156516","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156516","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d415adbf447344655d5e3fd33acf0e4cf8bf094adffc7b89f0956161e727e47ac5e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"16:51:33 - 17:07:20","影片長度":"00:15:47","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T16:51:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T17:07:20+08:00","duration":947,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.054718750000003,"end":10.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.42159375,"end":12.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.923468750000001,"end":13.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.30721875,"end":17.766593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.137843750000002,"end":21.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.48659375,"end":28.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.54971875,"end":29.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.28659375,"end":44.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.875968750000006,"end":48.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.55096875,"end":48.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.55909375,"end":50.048468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.70659375,"end":54.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.34721875,"end":59.110343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.88659375,"end":61.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.844093750000006,"end":62.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.95784375,"end":68.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.52659375,"end":71.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.31096875,"end":76.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.28471875000001,"end":81.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.34721875000001,"end":85.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.27471875,"end":90.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.44284375000001,"end":92.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.09659375000001,"end":96.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.89346875000001,"end":97.93971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.58096875000001,"end":100.04909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.94346875000001,"end":101.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.22596875,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.41971875,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.25471875000001,"end":108.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.34721875000001,"end":118.37534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.30909375,"end":111.00096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.00096875000001,"end":111.01784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.84784375000001,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.29471875,"end":125.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.20971875000001,"end":136.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.41471875000002,"end":137.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.57909375,"end":148.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.69971875000002,"end":151.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.65284375000002,"end":153.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.31909375,"end":155.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.77034375000002,"end":158.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.21284375000002,"end":166.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":166.92471875,"end":168.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.49409375000002,"end":200.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.86034375000003,"end":201.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.21034375000002,"end":204.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.89346875,"end":207.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.62721875000003,"end":212.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.07784375,"end":215.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.24659375000002,"end":213.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.04784375000003,"end":232.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.97346875000002,"end":234.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.69034375,"end":240.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.76596875,"end":263.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.64721875,"end":242.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.24284375,"end":265.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.71096875,"end":267.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.71909375,"end":280.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.49346875000003,"end":284.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.42096875000004,"end":289.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.09971875,"end":292.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.36534375,"end":291.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":291.66471875,"end":296.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.10284375000003,"end":304.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.77659375,"end":307.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.28284375000004,"end":305.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.84784375000004,"end":320.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.19596875,"end":333.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.00409375000004,"end":339.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.57284375,"end":356.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.32971875000004,"end":356.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":357.71346875,"end":363.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.37909375000004,"end":364.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.39596875,"end":366.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.36159375,"end":369.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.94784375,"end":370.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.52159375,"end":376.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.03971875,"end":383.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.46471875000003,"end":393.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.01596875,"end":396.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.44596875,"end":407.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.84659375,"end":397.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.33596875,"end":397.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":407.41034375000004,"end":412.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.91159375,"end":414.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.15596875,"end":418.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.17284375,"end":416.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.10909375,"end":422.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":422.42909375000005,"end":424.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.35284375000003,"end":426.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.58034375000005,"end":439.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.47284375000004,"end":442.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.06721875000005,"end":458.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.18284375,"end":467.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.46846875000006,"end":468.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.90284375000005,"end":470.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.57346875,"end":481.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.05284375,"end":487.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.12346875000003,"end":490.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.35096875000005,"end":496.96596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.11784375,"end":499.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.68284375,"end":502.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.09159375,"end":508.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.86284375,"end":514.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.1865937499999,"end":517.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.19471875,"end":520.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.8103437500001,"end":522.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.39221875,"end":533.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.92346875,"end":526.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.4834687499999,"end":534.7490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.8672187500001,"end":538.5459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.8159687500001,"end":540.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.82409375,"end":543.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.96284375,"end":547.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.3547187500001,"end":551.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.3203437500001,"end":563.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.7234687499999,"end":568.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.53284375,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.8272187499999,"end":603.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.41784375,"end":576.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.1897187500001,"end":608.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.8172187499999,"end":612.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":613.2178437499999,"end":613.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.3272187499999,"end":630.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.0378437500001,"end":635.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.01596875,"end":639.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.7453437500001,"end":642.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.91784375,"end":666.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.57659375,"end":679.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.77284375,"end":686.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.0290937500001,"end":687.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.77159375,"end":691.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.3997187500001,"end":693.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":693.7790937500001,"end":697.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.5422187500001,"end":698.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.5547187500001,"end":703.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.10659375,"end":706.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":706.90784375,"end":710.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.12659375,"end":712.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":712.7297187500001,"end":716.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.3915937500001,"end":720.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.13346875,"end":735.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":735.4097187500001,"end":736.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":736.9453437500001,"end":737.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":738.0590937500001,"end":757.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.1728437500001,"end":739.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.2234687499999,"end":739.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.51034375,"end":739.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.32846875,"end":743.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.8259687500001,"end":747.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":757.6003437500001,"end":759.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":759.92909375,"end":763.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":764.0634687500001,"end":776.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.6653437500001,"end":773.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":776.50034375,"end":781.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":782.32221875,"end":787.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":788.2790937500001,"end":797.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":797.9484687500001,"end":802.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":802.99409375,"end":805.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":806.3015937500002,"end":807.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":808.6809687500001,"end":813.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":814.7390937500002,"end":824.0203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":824.5265937500001,"end":828.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":829.4540937500001,"end":835.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.8328437500002,"end":838.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":838.5834687500001,"end":850.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":850.6828437500001,"end":863.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":863.98034375,"end":868.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":868.89096875,"end":885.7490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":885.93471875,"end":907.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.2590937500001,"end":889.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":903.5859687500001,"end":903.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.5515937500002,"end":924.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.0147187500002,"end":914.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":924.9497187500001,"end":935.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":930.0290937500001,"end":930.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":934.16346875,"end":938.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":945.82409375,"end":945.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.85784375,"end":946.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":946.09409375,"end":946.8703437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.143,"end":10.163,"text":"賴委員"},{"start":39.165,"end":58.91,"text":"議員長,是不是那個閆明慧主委走得太慢了,還我三秒鐘。沒問題,沒問題。好,賴委員請。議員長,我剛才其實我是要針對我的選區的AI,AI的一個機器人的一個未來的一個發展的展望。"},{"start":59.949,"end":85.416,"text":"然後跟你做探討那可是我實在是聽不下去了我覺得這個武黨級的高軍委員講這個進華補償實在是講得太離譜太離譜了所以在這裡我首先先請教院長就是進華補償從105年他開始發放就是用原民會的公務預算跟基金各辦的一個編列來支應是不是"},{"start":87.481,"end":99.777,"text":"委員講得正確不過容許我借委員的30秒鐘我要向韓院長表示剛剛我們在這裡聽到了一場不對稱的質詢不對稱的質詢高級委員用很多"},{"start":100.95,"end":117.759,"text":"不適時的內容來攻擊行政院讓行政院的官員沒有辦法答詢我剛剛實在想起來表示我的抗議但是我基於意識的和諧我只現在向韓院長表示我內心的感受我希望這種不對稱的質詢也不要成為慣例"},{"start":118.9,"end":136.054,"text":"那委員所說的沒有錯我們過去對於禁法補償我從來沒有說過行政院從來沒有表示過它是一個違憲的它是一部法律但法律修訂的過程要依照各種修法的相關程序來做只要依照程序做行政院絕對依法執行"},{"start":136.482,"end":153.27,"text":"好 院長 原民會的轉型正義一直就是我們民進黨不管從小英總統到賴清德總統一直都是我們民進黨在執政的一個最重要的政策這是不是我們向來最重要的一個就是轉型正義的一個目標"},{"start":154.806,"end":170.48,"text":"從2000年民進黨陳水扁總統執政以後我們對原住民族的關心從歷史上歷歷可見所有的存在的事實到現在還持續在發展跟壯大之中以後我們也會這樣做是 謝謝那院長是不是進化補償"},{"start":171.741,"end":200.531,"text":"是不是陳儒就是其他藍白的委員講到了我們完全都沒有編列這樣的一個公務預算也不能用基金來撥補是不是這樣子有道理今天不管4萬2萬還是3萬3萬我們到底有沒有編我們到底會不會給他們他現在都帶風向說我們不會給那個原住民這一些那個我們的市民有這些經費到底有沒有"},{"start":200.942,"end":215.547,"text":"修法之前進法補償編列3萬元修法的過程行政院曾經表示過如果能夠提升到4萬元我們願意來接受這樣的結果但是編了6萬元卻沒有指出"},{"start":215.947,"end":216.367,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":235.774,"end":235.794,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":265.814,"end":266.775,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":285.484,"end":286.084,"text":"請交通部長、國發會主委備詢。"},{"start":307.915,"end":328.954,"text":"跟院長探討我們整體來講就是說在總統的一個文告裡頭有特別提出來就是整體我們那個智慧科技大南方那個生態系的一個發展那在這裡我要跟院長做個探討就是在10月16號我有邀請到我們台南市政府"},{"start":329.514,"end":330.234,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":357.602,"end":359.323,"text":"這是我們科技預算總數我們智慧科技大南方產業生產區的確有編了"},{"start":383.913,"end":411.426,"text":"對,就是那個我們的智慧科技那個南方產業的一個生態系裡頭我們有特別編了這樣的一筆一千多億的一個預算這是科技預算的總數對,科技預算的總數那所以就是說我們盤點了那天我們在會議上我們也去盤點了就是說如何把這一個科技S狼帶就是說你從就是我整個就是在嘉義縣然後一直延伸過來到"},{"start":413.007,"end":438.687,"text":"新營、南科、台南、高雄、屏東、喬科、屏東就是缺了我這一塊,院長缺了我這一塊那我們其實就是六甲公園院、南院在我的選區裡頭其實那個地方有很多很多優秀的人才因為在早期我們的晶片其實也是從公園院研發出來的"},{"start":439.428,"end":440.109,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":459.224,"end":487.182,"text":"那我有五個水庫在那個地方所以各種生態各種條件其實我已經具備了最好的一個條件所以我要請院長全力的支持我尤其在我這麼好的一個人才公園院在我這個選區裡頭我希望它其實是足夠很好的條件可以達到就是一個AI機器人的研發產業中心在我那個地方然後附帶的我們知道就是說"},{"start":488.163,"end":514.794,"text":"整體來講就是這個整個產區的發展、研發跟生產那我還有一個柳科第三期這個是很快不超過15分鐘這個生產的一個基地就在那個地方所以我很希望就是院長可以有一個時間到我這個地方來就是實際的一個考察你會覺得沒有任何一個地方比我這個地方條件更好"},{"start":516.483,"end":543.211,"text":"報告委員我們在均衡台灣的整體規劃當中六大區域治理的計畫裡面大南方計畫這是一個完整的計畫那國發會已經在就內部的這個產業跟生活面做比較詳細的一個細部規劃那科技的部分國客會一直對我們沙崙為主的整個大S廊帶有相當完整的一個構想那明年開始我們就會初步的提出一些"},{"start":544.051,"end":565.087,"text":"有經費有期程的一些工作時間工作內容那一步一步會把它納進來那將來在國發會的整個區域治理計畫當中剛剛委員所提的這個部分如果原來在計畫裡面我們當然會照計畫走如果是周遭為了帶動周遭的整個連體連帶的一個發展我們會請國發會再來審慎的地方看那我有機會我們也到現場再去看"},{"start":568.921,"end":588.552,"text":"好,謝謝院長。我想我在這裡要特別感謝我們的國會主委,還有我們的國科會主委,他們其實為了這個議題,他們也下了很多的研究的功夫。事實上,我想他們,我希望他們再跟你做完整的一個專案的報告。"},{"start":589.392,"end":591.413,"text":"謝謝,謝謝院長那接著跟院長再來討論交通的問題我想這個"},{"start":615.376,"end":638.661,"text":"因應國際的七四交通運輸研究所他透過了一個建議就是說透過發展公共運輸系統我們希望達到2050年的淨零排碳請問院長你認同這樣子的一個計畫嗎?2050年的淨零排碳是全世界的目標那我們逐步在往這個方向在前進我們也設定了2030、2032每年逐年應該達到的一個標準"},{"start":642.964,"end":663.875,"text":"是,那我們從那個就是交通部的那個應援所裡頭他所做的一個那個特別的一個規劃裡頭我們看到了就是說三大策略裡頭其實他把最重要的一個發展公共運輸系統加強運輸需求的管理他把列為就是最重要的一個指標性的"},{"start":664.335,"end":664.676,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":681.397,"end":683.558,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．賴惠員二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．賴惠員"},{"start":711.167,"end":711.827,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":738.472,"end":759.071,"text":"這個部長看到我就在笑了,我就是要一直講,一直講,讓你看到我就哭起台37。對,看到你就想到台37,沒錯。我想這個台37的延伸對我們新營,對在未來就是我們產業發展,就是說對南科也有很大的一個發展,一個重要性。還有新營車站太老舊了。"},{"start":759.992,"end":778.038,"text":"新營車站的一個老舊,我就是在之前林佳龍部長的時候也謝謝部長的一個支持,他支持我新營車站的一個大更新。那這個計畫我們希望再逐步去進行。那接著就是要跟那個院長來討論這個台鐵他老舊的車廂的一個汰換。"},{"start":782.609,"end":805.318,"text":"我們常常接到就是我們的辦公室常常會接到就是我們新營的通車組那我們的通勤組他其實就是往南往南他就是到台南去上班往北的話就是到嘉義那你知道就是說在這幾個幾個這個通勤的部分的時候我們發現就是我們的幾關號太老舊"},{"start":806.986,"end":823.748,"text":"幾關號太老舊我想我自己也嘗試去做過那個冷氣好像真的是不冷後來我問了交通部他們告訴我說我說你們平常冷氣是開了幾度他們跟我講說那個大概是"},{"start":824.908,"end":850.057,"text":"二十六到二十七,那你想一想一個老舊的一個車廂,然後你的冷氣,這個溫度又是這麼差,然後是不是需要鈦換了?那我們整體來講,就是那個舉官號鈦舊換新,從自強區間那個區間塊的一個接替,我們希望提升它的品質啊。"},{"start":850.657,"end":851.337,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":868.988,"end":891.179,"text":"所以在這裡我特別提出來就是說我的這個區間車還有我的這個舉光號還有我的志強號這些老舊的一個這個交通運具公共的一個運具是不是應該適當的把它泰新是報告委員在舉光號的部分確實已經滿老舊了我們從111年就開始在汰換一些"},{"start":891.704,"end":892.084,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":907.449,"end":907.989,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．賴惠員"},{"start":924.994,"end":925.374,"text":"謝謝賴惠妍委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1574,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（16時51分）是，謝謝主席、謝謝院長。我請卓院長，還有原民會主委。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、原住民委員會曾主委備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：院長，原住民……院長，剛剛原民會主委走得太慢了，是不是還我3秒鐘？"],["主席：沒問題、沒問題。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝。"],["主席：賴委員請。"],["賴委員惠員：院長，剛才其實我是要針對我的選區AI機器人未來發展的展望跟你做探討，可是我實在是聽不下去了，我覺得無黨籍的高金委員講禁伐補償，實在是講得太離譜、太離譜了，所以在這裡，我首先先請教院長，禁伐補償從105年開始發放就是用原民會的公務預算跟基金各半編列來支應，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員講得是正確，不過容許我借委員的30秒鐘。"],["賴委員惠員：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：我要向韓院長表示，剛剛我們在這裡聽到了一場不對稱的質詢！不對稱的質詢！高金委員用很多不事實的內容來攻擊行政院，讓行政院的官員沒有辦法答詢，我剛剛實在想起來表示我的抗議……"],["賴委員惠員：所以說……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我基於議事的和諧，我只在現在向韓院長表示我內心的感受，我希望這種不對稱的質詢也不要成為慣例，委員所說的沒有錯，過去我們對於禁伐補償，我從來沒有說過、行政院從來沒有表示過它是違憲的，它是一部法律，但法律修訂的過程要依照各種修法的相關程序來做，只要依照程序做，行政院絕對依法執行。"],["賴委員惠員：好，院長，原民會的轉型正義一直就是我們民進黨不管從小英總統到賴清德總統，一直都是我們民進黨在執政的一個最重要的政策，這是不是我們向來最重要的轉型正義的一個目標？"],["卓院長榮泰：從2000年民進黨陳水扁總統執政以後，我們對原住民族的關心，從歷史上歷歷可見，所有的存在的事實到現在還持續在發展跟壯大之中，以後我們也會這樣做。"],["賴委員惠員：是，謝謝。院長，禁伐補償是不是誠如其他藍白的委員講到了，我們完全都沒有編列這樣的一個公務預算，也不能用基金來撥補，是不是這樣子有道理呢？今天不管4萬、2萬，還是3萬、3萬，我們到底有沒有編？我們到底會不會給他們？他們現在都帶風向說我們不會給原住民、我們的市民有這些經費，到底有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：修法之前，禁伐補償編列3萬元，修法的過程中，行政院曾經表示過，如果能夠提升到4萬元，我們願意接受這樣的結果，但是編了6萬元，卻沒有指出應該彌補的資金來源，所以這2萬元到目前為止，基於兩院的和諧跟讓總預算順利，我們提出了只要在憲法的精神跟法律的規定之下，大家有這樣的共識，互相尊重，形成一種彼此尊重的共識，也行之於未來的協商內容，那麼我們願意提出方法來解決。"],["賴委員惠員：我們會提出方法解決，就是給6萬嘛，所以藍白一直拿原住民禁伐補償當作擋箭牌，然後退回總預算，這真的是一個非常粗糙的退回總預算的手法。從2016年到2023年，歷年的補償高達124.7億，如果照他們講的無理的通過，再增加26億，那就占原民會總預算的42%，原民會主委，是不是？如果增加26億的話，會排擠到其他原民會的預算，這才是真正傷害全體原住民的權利，主委你回答我是還是不是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，是這樣的，會排擠到。"],["賴委員惠員：當然是啊！所以我就不知道高金是在說什麼，都沒有聽懂！好，你請回，謝謝。","接著我邀請國發會主委，還有交通部部長。"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長、國發會主委備詢。"],["賴委員惠員：接著要跟院長探討的是，總統的文告裡有特別提出完整智慧科技大南方生態系的一個整體發展，在這裡，我要跟院長做個探討，10月16號我有邀請臺南市政府、國科會及國發會共同研議大新營發展的規劃，我知道國科會在預算部分，特別匡列了「一般科技」預算1,467億，要做智慧科技大南方的生產計畫，請問，是不是有這樣的計畫呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：請國科會主委說明。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是的，賴委員。"],["賴委員惠員：對，主委，我們盤點了以後，發現就是……"],["吳主任委員誠文：這是我們科技預算的總數，而智慧科技大南方產業生態系部分的確是有編列了。"],["賴委員惠員：對，就是那個智慧科技大南方生態系計畫，我們特別編了一筆一千多億的預算，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這是科技預算的總數啦！"],["賴委員惠員：對，科技預算的總數，所以那天我們在會議上也盤點了這個S科技廊帶，就是整個從嘉義縣一直延伸過來到新營、到南科……"],["吳主任委員誠文：臺南、高雄到屏東。"],["賴委員惠員：對，到橋科，再到屏東，就是缺了我們這一塊，院長，缺了我們這一塊，其實工研院南院在六甲，就在我的選區裡，那個地方有很多很多優秀的人才，因為早期我們的晶片其實也是從工研院研發出來的。有了人才，又有最好的交通，那裡的交通涵蓋國三的3個交流道，包括六甲交流道、新營交流道及柳營交流道，交通是便利的，另外還有5個水庫在那個地方，所以各種生態、各種條件，都顯示我們已經具備了最好的條件，所以我要請院長全力支持我，尤其擁有這麼好人才的工研院也在我的選區裡，所以它是有足夠的條件達到成為AI機器人研發產業中心，附帶的是，就整體產區發展、研發跟生產來講，我們那邊還有一個柳科第三期，不超過15分鐘車程，生產的基地就在那個地方，所以我很希望院長可以安排時間到這個地方來進行實際的考察，你會覺得沒有任何一個地方比這個地方條件更好。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們在均衡臺灣的整體規劃當中，六大區域治理計畫裡面的大南方計畫，這是一個完整的計畫，國發會已經就內部的產業跟生活面做比較詳盡的細部規劃。至於科技的部分，國科會一直對以沙崙為主的整個大S廊帶有相當完整的構想。從明年開始，我們就會初步提出一些有經費、有期程的工作時間和工作內容，一步一步會把它納進來。將來在國發會的整個區域治理計畫當中，剛剛委員所提的這個部分，如果原來在計畫裡面，我們當然會照計畫走，如果是為了帶動周遭整個連帶的發展，我們會請國發會再來審慎的到地方去看看，我有機會也會再到現場去看。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝院長。我在這裡要特別感謝國發會主委以及國科會主委，其實他們為了這個議題也下了很多的研究功夫，我希望他們能夠再跟你做完整的專案報告。其實我們的條件非常周全，在整個經濟、科技產業的能量裡頭，雖然北臺南是最慢發展的，可是它絕對有最好的條件，謝謝院長。","接著想再跟院長討論交通的問題，因應國際的趨勢，交通運輸研究所提出一個建議，就是透過發展公共運輸系統，我們希望達到2050年的淨零排碳。請問院長，你認同這樣子的計畫嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：2050年的淨零排碳是全世界的目標，我們逐步在往這個方向前進，我們也設定了2030、2032每年逐年應該達到的標準。"],["賴委員惠員：是，我們從交通部運研所所做的一個特別規劃當中看到了三大策略，其實它把發展公共運輸系統、加強運輸需求的管理列為最重要的指標性計畫來推動，我在這裡再特別跟院長及部長做一個探討，我們每兩年就會做一次大眾運輸報告，根據「111年民眾日常使用運具狀況調查摘要分析」這一份報告書，這很慘啊！我們臺南是敬陪末座，在全臺灣倒數第七，六都墊底，為什麼？所有統計出來就是我們的公共運輸條件是最差的，臺北市還達到37.2%，新北市是28.7%，臺南卻只有4.8%，臺南整體公共交通的發展其實面臨到一個很大的困境，為什麼？本席在這裡提出三點議題要請求院長及交通部長來協助，針對台37線延伸到新營……我發現部長看到我就在笑了，我就是要一直講、一直講，讓你看到我就想起台37。"],["陳部長世凱：對，看到你就想到台37線沒錯。"],["賴委員惠員：台37的延伸對新營、對未來我們的產業發展、對南科的發展都很具重要性，還有新營車站太老舊了，關於新營車站老舊的問題，在之前林佳龍部長的時候，也謝謝部長的支持，他支持新營車站的大更新，這個計畫我們希望再逐步去進行。","接著要跟院長討論臺鐵老舊車廂的汰換，本席辦公室常常接到新營通車族的陳情，這些通勤族往南是到臺南去上班，往北的話就是到嘉義。針對這幾個通勤的部分，我們發現我們的莒光號太老舊，我自己也嘗試去坐過，冷氣好像真的不冷，後來我問交通部他們平常冷氣是開幾度，他們跟我講，大概是26到27度。你想一想，一個老舊的車廂，然後冷氣的溫度又是這麼差，是不是需要汰換了？整體來講，我們希望莒光號能夠汰舊換新，以自強、區間快接替，來提升它的品質。尤其我們知道臺鐵整體購置跟汰換車輛的計畫在104年到113年有一筆很大的經費，明年還編列了30億，這30億裡頭，你們希望把這個計畫延伸到2027年。所以在這裡我特別提出來，區間車、莒光號、還有自強號這些老舊的交通公共運具是不是應該適當地汰舊換新？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，莒光號的部分確實已經滿老舊了，我們從111年就開始在汰換一些比較舊的部分，目前還有175輛自動門的莒光號，我們預計在116年之前逐步來汰換，儘量都換成EMU3000，也就是新的自強號，還有EMU900，也就是新的通勤電車。您一直在爭取新營站要多停一些新的通勤電車跟新的自強號，這個部分我們也納入評估，已經在溝通當中、在討論當中了，希望未來整個新營站有更多新式的列車可以來停靠。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，我想再請教你一下，台37線延伸到新營的可行性評估到底什麼時候可以做？"],["陳部長世凱：我們目前跟嘉義縣政府、還有臺南市政府兩邊正在溝通當中，等我們想出一個比較好的方案的時候，我們就會進行可行性評估，到時候再跟委員報告。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝院長。"],["主席：那個3秒鐘還給你了，賴委員，特別報告一下。謝謝卓院長、部會首長的備詢。","接下來請登記第34號楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156515","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156515","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41b23de0ffad95e315e3fd33acf0e4cf8b052879ca95171cd10911e5930497b7265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"16:34:35 - 16:51:19","影片長度":"00:16:44","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T16:34:35+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T16:51:19+08:00","duration":1004,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.805343750000002,"end":13.817843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.952843750000003,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.66534375,"end":20.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.60534375,"end":30.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.726593750000003,"end":34.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.70909375,"end":35.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.41346875,"end":39.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.65346875,"end":42.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.24784375,"end":44.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.37409375,"end":50.065343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.31846875,"end":52.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.83284375,"end":61.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.41784375,"end":63.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.97846875,"end":67.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.58159375000001,"end":67.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.63221875,"end":67.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.80909375,"end":71.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.81721875000001,"end":72.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.31909375000001,"end":76.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.45346875,"end":83.37659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.74784375,"end":87.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.73034375,"end":88.67534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.77659375,"end":90.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.71721875,"end":95.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.21846875,"end":98.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.72846875,"end":100.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.89284375000001,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.03596875000001,"end":104.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.06096875,"end":113.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.35909375000001,"end":115.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.00034375000001,"end":115.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.11409375000001,"end":117.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.70034375,"end":121.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.54784375000001,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.87909375,"end":136.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.75221875,"end":143.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.71721875,"end":145.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.35846875000001,"end":145.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.84784375,"end":146.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.01221875000002,"end":148.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.91909375,"end":153.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.58909375000002,"end":155.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.61846875,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.62659375,"end":157.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.38159375,"end":173.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.36659375000002,"end":183.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.79971875,"end":185.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.17909375000002,"end":189.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.94221875000002,"end":193.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.44784375,"end":205.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.95659375000002,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.63534375,"end":214.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.01846875,"end":217.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.57909375000003,"end":219.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.67596875,"end":234.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.03221875000003,"end":237.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.79971875,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.11159375000003,"end":244.76909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.30909375000002,"end":247.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.43096875,"end":253.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.86471875,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.39596875,"end":259.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.18034375,"end":266.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.97659375,"end":274.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.36346875000004,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.87284375,"end":294.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.56721875,"end":311.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.84721875,"end":319.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.03159375,"end":323.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.28409375,"end":338.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.06659375000004,"end":347.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.68971875,"end":355.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.09346875,"end":361.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.87346875000003,"end":360.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.54409375,"end":369.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.62721875,"end":372.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.15409375,"end":380.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.76034375,"end":397.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.55534375,"end":418.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.66596875000005,"end":422.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.63159375000004,"end":423.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.76221875000005,"end":424.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.06596875,"end":433.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.92221875,"end":428.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.99346875000003,"end":429.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.27971875000003,"end":446.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.68471875,"end":434.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.58159375,"end":447.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.16784375000003,"end":448.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.41659375,"end":452.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.71159375,"end":458.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.92159375000006,"end":462.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.68034375,"end":471.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.39596875,"end":474.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.57284375,"end":491.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.71784375000004,"end":515.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.5578437500001,"end":524.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.7422187500001,"end":525.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.3959687500001,"end":540.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.95909375,"end":541.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.4609687500001,"end":544.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.8572187500001,"end":548.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.9409687500001,"end":551.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.79284375,"end":558.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.98159375,"end":570.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.2665937500001,"end":572.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.3759687500001,"end":574.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.18159375,"end":580.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.78409375,"end":589.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.2722187500001,"end":589.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.9809687500001,"end":594.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.9422187499999,"end":599.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.20721875,"end":601.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.5022187500001,"end":603.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.66659375,"end":606.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.63659375,"end":613.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.79159375,"end":618.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.1459687500001,"end":614.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.2084687500001,"end":621.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.26284375,"end":627.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.02159375,"end":627.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.9328437500001,"end":633.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.11784375,"end":640.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.6059687500001,"end":647.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.5634687500001,"end":643.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.2165937500001,"end":653.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.2409687500001,"end":658.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.4553437500001,"end":663.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.7709687500001,"end":689.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.32784375,"end":666.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.0615937500002,"end":668.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.61971875,"end":690.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.5053437500001,"end":713.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.21471875,"end":714.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.09221875,"end":716.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.10909375,"end":715.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.5265937500001,"end":716.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.62784375,"end":716.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.1172187500001,"end":718.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.7665937500001,"end":726.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.9384687500001,"end":735.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":735.88221875,"end":742.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.5984687499999,"end":749.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":750.24284375,"end":758.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.93346875,"end":769.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.80096875,"end":772.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.32784375,"end":789.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.6459687500001,"end":791.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.9072187500001,"end":796.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.49284375,"end":803.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":804.3103437500001,"end":806.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":807.1284687500001,"end":819.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":820.1728437500001,"end":822.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.9740937500001,"end":830.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.1428437500001,"end":825.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.43784375,"end":826.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":828.2390937500002,"end":828.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":831.12471875,"end":831.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":831.1415937500001,"end":832.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":831.2765937500001,"end":834.2465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.1072187500001,"end":838.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":838.56659375,"end":840.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":840.4734687500002,"end":844.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":843.76409375,"end":845.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.7934687500001,"end":848.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":846.3797187500002,"end":846.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":847.54409375,"end":848.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.7253437500001,"end":850.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":848.7422187500001,"end":851.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":852.16784375,"end":861.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":852.20159375,"end":852.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":858.39471875,"end":860.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":861.49971875,"end":862.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":862.4953437500001,"end":885.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.4284687500001,"end":886.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":886.94721875,"end":900.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.7847187500001,"end":916.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":917.32221875,"end":923.5828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":923.88659375,"end":953.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":944.6428437500001,"end":950.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":951.17346875,"end":951.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":951.2578437500001,"end":953.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":953.8228437500002,"end":954.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":955.66221875,"end":960.7078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":960.4040937500001,"end":962.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":961.72034375,"end":966.1922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":962.74971875,"end":963.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":966.1584687500001,"end":966.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":967.0359687500002,"end":968.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":968.9597187500001,"end":974.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":974.6297187500002,"end":976.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":976.9753437500001,"end":978.9328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":979.42221875,"end":982.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":982.67909375,"end":992.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":992.97284375,"end":994.0190937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.233,"end":42.248,"text":"謝謝韓院長現在有請原民會的主委還有主計長麻煩請原住民主委、主計總長備詢我今天就不邀請我們的卓院長上台了因為過去一個多月以來我的族人同胞在禁法補堂這個議題上面不斷地被污衊、被歧視為了不再發生這種反制的現象我這次就不邀請卓院長上台了"},{"start":43.811,"end":71.019,"text":"來請問一下主計長5月8號主計總署有沒有依據預算法第31條頒布114年度中央政府總預算編製辦法然後你行文給所屬各機關看一下有還是沒有你桌上應該也有啦有沒有應該有吧"},{"start":73.998,"end":98.774,"text":"編製辦法的第14條的第三項看一下各機關編列的概算不能夠超過行政院原本核定的額度但是有幾個例外的情況其中是不是就包含各機關必須要配合新增法律規定進法補償是不是新增的法律規定啊"},{"start":99.735,"end":103.437,"text":"曾主委,請問一下,5月8日主計總署發布這個編製辦法的時候,是不是匡列了125億給人民會來編製預算?"},{"start":116.141,"end":130.39,"text":"在6月4日進法補償條例立法院三讀通過了以後元明會你們是不是在6月18日也依據主計總署編製的辦法你們增編了進法補償要多3萬塊的補償預算給我們主計處所以你們提報的是165.02億也就是114年度的預算看到了沒有"},{"start":147.261,"end":153.447,"text":"8月19日,行政院合併給原民會114年度的預算多少錢?123.83億元"},{"start":159.551,"end":182.631,"text":"所以我們所有原民會的同仁依法依規編制了明年的預算是165.02億行政院大道一揮就只剩下123.83億高務人員依法行政依法編列預算成為我們行政院長口中的違法還有浪費公帑"},{"start":183.852,"end":208.547,"text":"主委,你不覺得非常荒謬嗎?進法補償每公請3萬塊的時候, 原民會匡列的預算是125億。而進法補償通過了每公請要6萬塊的時候, 行政院合併給原民會的預算只有多少?123.83億。比修法之前還少啊,主委。"},{"start":209.688,"end":233.258,"text":"你當了一輩子的公務人員我相信你的內心一定非常的沮喪但是你可以不必沮喪為什麼從上個禮拜五一直到今天所有很多民眾黨的委員也好國民黨的委員也好在這邊正在為你圓明會還有為我們的主任討公道所以我們要謝謝他們"},{"start":235.083,"end":253.201,"text":"而我們的卓院長不斷跟大家講預算法91條財政紀律法其實呢全部都是假議題啦禁法補償、條例修法大家回憶一下從委員會的審查我就是召委"},{"start":253.962,"end":273.807,"text":"然後到草野協商．再到今天的韓院長的協商．每一次的會議．行政院都有不同部會的人員參加．不管是新政府還是舊政府．期間都沒有人說修法有問題．"},{"start":276.007,"end":296.215,"text":"這不就是已經徵詢行政部門的意見嗎?哪裏沒有徵詢行政部門的意見呢?再說進法補償條例在105年立法的時候就是本席在立法院跟簡東明委員立的法當時有一個附帶決議"},{"start":298.295,"end":322.623,"text":"決議寫得非常的清楚如果要調整禁法補償的額度我們所需要的預算可以從碳稅或者是碳費來支應而環境部不是從明年就開始要開增碳費了嗎?哪裡沒有預算呢?所以本席認為禁法補償條例"},{"start":324.364,"end":346.901,"text":"一直在講為依法編列預算從頭到尾都只是卓院長自以為我們立法院沒有徵詢他一個人的意見而已導致現在我們必須要不斷的在這邊找理由在這邊跟他質詢所以"},{"start":347.742,"end":360.761,"text":"我要講的是難怪昨天有一位他們政黨的立法委員在廣播裡面講說卓院長嘴硬是一致的也難怪如此"},{"start":361.561,"end":365.763,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":381.806,"end":389.949,"text":"具體來講就是原民會在114年的公務預算裡面只有編列28.16億轉交給綜合發展基金去執行進法補償"},{"start":397.651,"end":399.592,"text":"兩本預算書加起來就只有28.16億,也就是每公頃左院長口中講的4萬塊的經費額度,是不是這樣?"},{"start":418.735,"end":441.025,"text":"我們的預算是編4億,但是往年就是編4萬,一公頃4萬,還有2萬本來行力就可以用這個基金那你基金編在哪裡?看一下預算書你的基金編在哪裡?你的基金裡面只有28.16億轉到你們基金裡面要動資轉給這個金髮補償啊,編在哪裡?"},{"start":446.448,"end":447.869,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":472.438,"end":490.109,"text":"本來就只有4萬塊行政院長在這裡備詢還有在媒體面前講得很清楚他認為4萬塊是合理合憲的所以根本就沒有存在有一些立委尤其是原住民立委在外面一直講有啊4加2啊要不就是6加0的狀況啊"},{"start":491.81,"end":491.83,"text":"主計長"},{"start":516.844,"end":541.302,"text":"10月21號的協商你說你有很多的方式可以來解決預算編列不足的問題你說的工具有什麼總預算修正、綜合發展基金、第二預備金但是你講完了這些之後呢你又接著長篇大論講說綜合發展基金是你認為最可行的工具甚至說我們基金還有30億的剩餘款可以使用你知道嗎"},{"start":542.503,"end":553.37,"text":"原民會主委打臉你啦剛剛他說只有17億啊來我們看一下為什麼說17億因為基金的資產項目中114年底可動資做進法補償的款項現金7億流動金融資產10億應收款項0.27億合計17億主委你倒是講對了主計長你"},{"start":571.368,"end":599.511,"text":"才是搞不清楚狀況而主委你講你說你可以用17億好就算我們現在讓你用17億用在淨法補償加上公務預算28.16億你說這足以發給每個人每公頃6萬塊的補償對不對好你知道嗎這是要停止原民會各項貸款的業務耶然後你把17億全部放在淨法補償基金上面"},{"start":600.311,"end":620.941,"text":"你難道不清楚知道我們其他的貸款業務就做不來了嗎?如果這樣繼續動資基金115年就沒有預算可以辦理貸款了耶你知道嗎?各位報告我們每一年的進化補償的發放的時間最快也是9月底到10月"},{"start":623.123,"end":639.654,"text":"換句話講,這個經會是明年的9月、10月才會發放這個進化補償。然後呢?然後我們,就是說我們沒有經會,我們會請求來這個請這個主計…你知道原理會行了幾次公文跟主計處說,你們基金要破產了,主計處回你的文是什麼?"},{"start":640.735,"end":643.636,"text":"現在行政院究竟要使用你百寶箱裡面的哪一個工具?是總預算調整呢?還是要用第二預備金呢?"},{"start":664.864,"end":665.784,"text":"你還是沒有回答我的問題啦"},{"start":690.632,"end":718.307,"text":"我要講的是今天你們既然有心在這邊你們早就應該要白紙黑字提出來嘛不要讓大家在閣樓上講嘛然後等一下這邊質詢完畢以後我們的韓院長就可以進去跟其我們其他的在野黨的山長討論嘛你們現在一直在講說要用這些要用那些你們都沒有白紙黑字寫下來啊對不對好了請你可以回座曾主委剩下我們兩個在部落上你是我的長輩"},{"start":719.81,"end":735.224,"text":"我在這裡要告訴你的是,原住民族的轉型正義從來就不在民進黨政府的眼中。為什麼?因為當我們努力在立法、修法、進法補償的時候,我們的農業部用一個計畫就可以讓農民零九萬塊的休耕補助。"},{"start":735.945,"end":758.311,"text":"我們的經濟部用一個計畫就可以讓一般人領6萬塊的直數保齡獎金。我們的農業部113年也預告了,獎勵造齡辦法平均每年可以領多少?6萬塊。我們很辛苦的立法修法,平地休耕補助,只要用一個行政方案,它就可以發放了。"},{"start":759.051,"end":779.406,"text":"而我們的禁法補償經過漫長的三讀立法通過即使總統已經公告實施了還要被我們的卓院長指責這是違法、浪費公堂然後不編預算我回想到2005年原禁法三讀通過的時候隔天馬上傳出行政院就要提復議"},{"start":780.626,"end":803.455,"text":"當時的原民會陳主委還有企劃處的林處長他們奉命跑到行政院去要簽署所謂的復議案當時你應該也在原民會因為當時是逢整個行政院總辭大家在拍畢業照一片混亂當中原民會沒有簽署復議案所以我們的原基法逃過一劫"},{"start":805.076,"end":829.911,"text":"2015年的時候也在這個地方進法補償立法也是這樣在野的民進黨團柯總統他一路的阻擋理由是什麼民進黨已經要執政了怎麼能夠先通過一個20億的進法補償呢這是一個前坑法案後來後來因為我沒有請你回答主要是因為我沒有請你回答"},{"start":831.193,"end":832.901,"text":"我沒有請你回答 請暫停時間 韓院長"},{"start":835.614,"end":860.585,"text":"時間暫停,麻煩請行政官員沒有要求詢答之前請不要回答我現在非常的尊重你喔,我說你是我長輩喔所以我現在告訴你2015年時間暫停,高金委員時間暫停再重申一遍根據立法院執行事法沒有要求你詢答之前請暫時不要回答,好嗎?不好意思,我要跟村議員報告一下,高金委員請繼續"},{"start":863.185,"end":886.23,"text":"謝謝2015年進法補償立法也是這樣在野的柯建民主黨理由是什麼民進黨就要這個執政了怎麼可以通過進法補償後來是因為蔡總統要大選啦怕影響他勉強通過所以除了進法補償之外我們的政府還忘了很多早年對原鄉的長期壓迫啊光復之後"},{"start":887.01,"end":887.65,"text":"三十六年的三地管制讓原鄉"},{"start":903.777,"end":923.178,"text":"一窮二白、民生基礎是零、工作機會是零而當時我們原住民的子弟只好離鄉背井去討生活因為我們的文化跟語言的差異只能去做重勞力的工作這些全部都是對原住民轉型正義而我們的民進黨對我們的轉型正義做什麼"},{"start":924.019,"end":948.315,"text":"促進轉型正義條例排除了日據時期。然後兩天前聯合國的生物多樣性公約第16次的大會才在哥倫比亞閉幕並且通過一項決議。大會主席蘇珊娜表示透過這項決議原住民、非洲人後裔和在地社區的傳統知識價值得到了肯認公約26年對原住民族的起暫停。"},{"start":956,"end":978.636,"text":"對不起,高金委員時間暫停。高金委員跟曾主委這邊容許我唸一下。我還沒有請你回答。時間請暫停。第一方面質詢新司法第22條的精神。時間已經暫停了。對。對於委員質詢之答覆,由行政院院長或質詢委員指定之有關部會首長答覆。委員如果沒有指定,請部會首長不要接受。"},{"start":979.485,"end":980.085,"text":"不要搶答"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1507,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（16時34分）謝謝韓院長，現在有請原民會的主委，還有主計長。"],["主席：麻煩請原民會主委、主計總長備詢。"],["高金委員素梅：我今天就不邀請我們的卓院長上臺了，因為過去一個多月以來，我的族人同胞在禁伐補償這個議題上面不斷地被污衊、被歧視，為了不再發生這種反智的現象，我這次就不邀請卓院長您上臺了。","請問一下主計長，5月8號主計總處有沒有依據預算法第三十一條頒布114年度中央政府總預算編製辦法，然後你行文給所屬各機關？看一下，有還是沒有？你桌上應該也有啦！有沒有？應該有吧？都在這裡了，編製辦法第十四條第三項，你看一下，各機關編列的概算不能夠超過行政院原本核定的額度，但是有幾個例外的情況，其中是不是就包含各機關必須要配合新增法律規定，禁伐補償是不是新增的法律規定啊？是還是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。","曾主委，請問一下，5月8號主計總處發布這個編製辦法的時候，是不是匡列了125億給原民會來編製預算？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，124。"],["高金委員素梅：在6月4號立法院三讀通過禁伐補償條例以後，原民會是不是在6月18號也依據主計總處的編製辦法，你們增編了禁伐補償要多3萬塊的補償預算給主計總處，所以你們提報的是165.02億，也就是114年度的預算，看到了沒有？有吧？"],["曾主任委員智勇：嗯。"],["高金委員素梅：8月19號行政院核定給原民會114年度的預算是多少錢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：124。"],["高金委員素梅：123.83億，所以我們所有原民會的同仁依法依規編製了明年的預算是165.02億，行政院大刀一揮就只剩下123.83億，公務人員依法行政，依法編列預算，成為我們行政院長口中的違法，還有浪費公帑。主委，你不覺得非常荒謬嗎？禁伐補償每公頃3萬塊的時候，原民會匡列的預算是125億，而禁伐補償通過了，每公頃要6萬塊的時候，行政院核定給原民會的預算只有多少？123.83億，比修法之前還少啊！主委，你當了一輩子的公務人員，我相信你的內心一定非常的沮喪，但是你可以不必沮喪，為什麼？從上個禮拜五一直到今天，很多民眾黨的委員也好，國民黨的委員也好，在這邊正在為你原民會，還有為我們的族人討公道啊！所以我們要謝謝他們。","而我們的卓院長不斷跟大家講預算法第九十一條、財政紀律法，其實全部都是假議題啦！禁伐補償條例修法，大家回憶一下，從委員會的審查我就是召委，然後到朝野協商，再到今天韓院長的協商，每一次的會議行政院都有不同部會的人員參加，不管是新政府還是舊政府，期間都沒有人說修法有問題，這不就是已經徵詢行政部門的意見嗎？哪裡沒有徵詢行政部門的意見呢？再說，禁伐補償條例在105年立法的時候，就是本席在立法院跟簡東明委員立的法，當時有一個附帶決議，決議寫得非常的清楚，如果要調整禁伐補償的額度，我們所需要的預算可以從碳稅或者是碳費來支應，而環境部不是從明年就開始要開徵碳費了嗎？哪裡沒有預算呢？所以本席認為禁伐補償條例一直在講未依法編列預算，從頭到尾都只是卓院長自以為我們立法院沒有徵詢他一個人的意見而已，導致現在我們必須要不斷地在這邊找理由、在這邊跟他質詢。所以我要講的是，難怪昨天有一位他們政黨的立法委員在廣播裡面講，卓院長嘴硬是一致的，也難怪如此。","另外，主委，我再請你看一下，我翻遍了原民會114年單位預算書，還有你的綜合發展基金的預算書，目前這兩本預算書加起來，在禁伐補償金項目上就只有編列28.16億，具體來講，就是原民會在114年公務預算裡面只有編列28.16億轉交給綜合發展基金去執行禁伐補償，然而我們的基金是一毛錢都沒有編，因為上面都沒有看到禁伐補償要補那2萬塊的不足，所以這兩本預算書加起來就只有28.16億，也就是每公頃卓院長口中講的4萬塊的經費額度，是不是這樣？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們預算是編4億，但是往年都是……"],["高金委員素梅：4億？有沒有講錯？"],["曾主任委員智勇：就是編4萬，一公頃4萬，還有2萬本來循例就可以用基金來補。"],["高金委員素梅：那你的基金編在哪裡？看一下預算書，你的基金編在哪裡？只有28.16億轉到你們基金裡面要轉給禁伐補償啊！編在哪裡？你翻給我。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們至少是可以先挹注，我們再來……"],["高金委員素梅：你翻給我看你們說2萬要編在哪裡？編在哪裡總是有科目吧！在綜合發展基金裡面。"],["曾主任委員智勇：有科目，綜合發展基金本來就可以用來做禁伐補償。"],["高金委員素梅：本來？本來113年就沒有編啊！114年要編，你應該上面要有寫嘛，對不對？好，你剛剛倒是講了4萬塊，本來就只有4萬塊，行政院長在這裡備詢，還有在媒體面前講得很清楚，他認為4萬塊是合理合憲的，所以根本就沒有存在有一些立委，尤其是原住民立委在外面一直講：有啊！4加2，要不就是6加0的狀況啊！也就是因為一直是缺2萬塊嘛！所以你們，也就是民進黨不斷地要拜託韓院長來這邊朝野協商，才會有今天針對禁伐補償、針對老農的公糧收購來這邊質詢，不是嗎？所以不要再強辯了，好不好？","主計長，10月21日協商時，你說你有很多方式可以來解決預算編列不足的問題，你說的工具有什麼？有總預算修正、綜合發展基金、第二預備金，但是你講完了這些之後呢？你又接著長篇大論說，綜合發展基金是你認為最可行的工具，甚至說我們基金還有30億的賸餘款可以使用。但你知道嗎？剛剛原民會主委打臉你了，他說只有17億。我們看一下為什麼說只有17億，因為基金的資產項目中，114年底可動支做禁伐補償的款項有現金7億、流動金融資產10億、應收款項0.27億，合計是17億。主委，你倒是講對了，主計長，你才是搞不清楚狀況的。而主委你說你可以用17億，好！就算我們現在讓你用17億用在禁伐補償，加上公務預算的28.16億，你說這足以發給每個人每公頃6萬塊的補償對不對？好，但你知道嗎？這是要停止原民會各項貸款的業務耶！然後你把17億全部放在禁伐補償基金上面，你難道不知道這樣其他的貸款業務就做不來了嗎？如果這樣繼續動支基金，115年就沒有預算可以辦理貸款了耶！主委，你知不知道？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我們每一年禁伐補償發放的時間，最快也是9月底到10月，換句話講，禁伐補償經費是明年9月、10月才會發放。"],["高金委員素梅：然後呢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們沒有經費會請求主計總處來挹注。"],["高金委員素梅：你知道原民會行了幾次公文跟主計總處說，你們的基金要破產了，主計總處回你的文是什麼？不要在這邊胡說八道了啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：我沒有胡說八道。"],["高金委員素梅：今天在這邊談論的事情就是行政院怎麼樣釋出善意。主計長，我要請你回答我，現在行政院究竟要使用你百寶箱裡面的哪一個工具？是總預算調整呢？還是要用第二預備金呢？就你的認為。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們原則上是希望……"],["高金委員素梅：請你大聲一點，好嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們原則上是希望從基金裡面來支應，有不足的部分再從總預算來撥補。院長今天也陸續談到，如果對這個有意見，我們甚至可以用第二預備金，也可以用追加預算的方式來處理。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！你還是沒有回答我的問題。我要講的是，今天你們既然有心在這邊，你們早就應該要用白紙黑字提出來，不要讓大家在閣樓上講。等一下這邊質詢完畢之後，韓院長就可以進去跟其他在野黨的三長討論。你們現在一直在說要用這些、要用那些，你們都沒有白紙黑字寫下來，對不對？好，請你可以回座。","曾主委，剩下我們兩個，在部落，你是我的長輩，我在這裡要告訴你的是，原住民族的轉型正義從來就不在民進黨政府的眼中，為什麼？因為當我們努力在禁伐補償立法、修法的時候，農業部用一個計畫就可以讓農民領9萬塊的休耕補助，經濟部用一個計畫就可以讓一般人領6萬塊的植樹保林獎金？農業部113年也預告了獎勵造林辦法，平均每年可以領多少？6萬塊！我們很辛苦的立法、修法，平地休耕補助只要用一個行政方案就可以發放了，而禁伐補償經過漫長的三讀立法通過，即使總統已經公告實施了，還要被卓院長指責這是違法、浪費公帑，然後不編預算。","我回想2005年原基法三讀通過的時候，隔天馬上傳出行政院就要提覆議，當時的原民會陳主委，還有企劃處的林處長，奉命跑到行政院要簽署所謂的覆議案，當時你應該也在原民會。因為當時適逢整個行政院總辭，大家在拍畢業照，一片混亂當中，原民會沒有簽署覆議案，所以原基法逃過一劫。2015年也在這個地方，禁伐補償立法也是這樣，在野的民進黨團柯總召一路阻擋，理由是什麼？民進黨已經要執政了，怎麼能夠先通過20億的禁伐補償？這是一個錢坑法案。後來因為……"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：我沒有請你回答！"],["曾主任委員智勇：主要是因為……"],["高金委員素梅：我沒有請你回答！我沒有請你回答！"],["曾主任委員智勇：還沒有協商……"],["高金委員素梅：請暫停時間，韓院長。"],["主席：時間暫停，麻煩行政官員沒有被要求詢答之前，請不要回答。"],["高金委員素梅：我現在非常的尊重你，我說你是我長輩，所以我現在告訴你……"],["主席：立法院職權行使法……要求詢答才能詢答，好不好？"],["高金委員素梅：2015年……"],["主席：好，時間暫停。高金委員，時間暫停。我再重申一遍，根據立法院職權行使法，沒有要求您詢答之前，請暫時不要回答，好嗎？不好意思，我要跟卓院長也報告一下。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝，院長的裁示非常好！謝謝。"],["主席：高金委員，請繼續。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝。2015年禁伐補償立法也是這樣，在野的柯建銘阻擋，理由是什麼？民進黨就要執政了，怎麼可以通過禁伐補償，後來是因為蔡總統要大選了，怕影響他，才勉強通過，所以除了禁伐補償之外，政府還忘了很多早年對原鄉的長期壓迫。光復之後，你應該知道政府的一個行政命令，對30個山地鄉實施了36年的山地管制，當時只要進出山地鄉，就必須要向警察機關申請入山證。36年的山地管制讓原鄉一窮二白，民生基礎是零，工作機會是零，而當時原住民的子弟只好離鄉背井去討生活，因為文化跟語言的差異，我們只能去做重勞力的工作。這些全部都是對原住民轉型正義，而我們的民進黨對我們的轉型正義做什麼？促進轉型正義條例排除了日據時期，然後兩天前聯合國的生物多樣性公約第十六次大會才在哥倫比亞閉幕並且通過一項決議。大會主席蘇珊娜表示，透過這項決議，原住民、非洲人後裔和在地社區的傳統知識價值得到了肯認……"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，禁伐補償也是民進黨政府才開始發放，從105年到現在……"],["高金委員素梅：公約26年來對原住民族的……","請暫停，院長。"],["主席：對不起，高金委員時間暫停，高金委員跟曾主委，我這邊容許我唸一下……"],["高金委員素梅：我還沒有請你回答，要……"],["主席：時間請暫停，立法院職權行使法第二十二條的精神，時間已經暫停了。"],["高金委員素梅：對。"],["主席：對於委員質詢之答復，由行政院長或質詢委員指定之有關部會首長答復，委員如果沒有指定，請部會首長不要搶答，再重申一遍。","高金委員請繼續。"],["高金委員素梅：剩下最後5秒，我要講的是聯合國的決議解決對原住民族的歷史虧欠，而我們的行政院長卻揮刀斬斷原住民的轉型正義，曾主委，這樣子就是臺灣跟國際的距離，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：並沒有這樣子。"],["高金委員素梅：請你要注意，你是原住民……"],["曾主任委員智勇：我是啊！"],["高金委員素梅：被欺負了，不能這樣子的態度。"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有欺負啊！"],["主席：謝謝高金委員的質詢，也謝謝曾主委的答詢。","接下來我們請登記第33號賴惠員委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156514","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156514","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41e0acd4f879a27220e3fd33acf0e4cf8b052879ca95171cd114d49caf4f3f18ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"16:18:21 - 16:34:22","影片長度":"00:16:01","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T16:18:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T16:34:22+08:00","duration":961,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.164093750000003,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.906593750000003,"end":13.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.615343750000001,"end":14.560343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.67846875,"end":16.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.21284375,"end":24.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.242218750000003,"end":29.511593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.44034375,"end":26.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.86596875,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.64221875,"end":30.794093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.75596875,"end":37.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.86471875,"end":39.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.22721875,"end":40.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.27346875,"end":44.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.39534375,"end":48.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.81659375,"end":53.220968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.862218750000004,"end":57.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.89534375,"end":62.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.384093750000005,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.46784375,"end":70.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.78784375000001,"end":73.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.01096875,"end":75.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.98534375,"end":77.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.25096875,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.41971875,"end":77.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.47034375,"end":77.48721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.04409375,"end":90.80159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.08846875,"end":100.90971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.11221875000001,"end":101.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.19659375,"end":101.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.97284375000001,"end":109.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.19534375,"end":116.68784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.77221875000001,"end":125.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.63159375000001,"end":129.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.47909375,"end":139.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.99659375000002,"end":139.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.29596875000001,"end":142.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.06346875,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.81784375,"end":154.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.96034375000002,"end":163.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.44409375,"end":168.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.71346875,"end":170.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.12659375,"end":176.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.81346875,"end":178.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.70346875,"end":181.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.57221875000002,"end":184.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.54221875000002,"end":185.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.97659375,"end":187.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.56284375,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.37659375,"end":192.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.86159375000003,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.78971875000002,"end":196.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.60784375,"end":197.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.85659375,"end":201.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.83909375000002,"end":204.69096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.97784375,"end":207.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.22221875000002,"end":210.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.96846875,"end":222.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.21971875000003,"end":228.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.24409375000002,"end":230.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.62784375,"end":231.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.30284375000002,"end":231.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.29846875,"end":239.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.80784375000002,"end":249.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.25784375,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.56659375000004,"end":272.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.60846875000004,"end":276.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.69659375000003,"end":280.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.97471875,"end":279.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.25721875,"end":289.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.33721875000003,"end":281.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.83471875000004,"end":284.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.78346875,"end":288.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.45409375,"end":290.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.97284375000004,"end":294.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.32659375000003,"end":296.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.96346875,"end":300.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.33846875,"end":301.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.90784375000004,"end":303.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.30409375,"end":308.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.62409375000004,"end":310.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.58159375,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.94409375000004,"end":315.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.89721875000004,"end":315.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.94784375,"end":315.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.96471875000003,"end":315.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.98159375,"end":316.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.03221875,"end":316.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.15034375000005,"end":330.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.43971875,"end":327.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.83159375,"end":335.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.55659375000005,"end":339.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.40409375,"end":342.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.96471875000003,"end":364.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.92971875,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.01409375000003,"end":351.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.27784375000005,"end":364.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.29034375000003,"end":384.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.49409375000005,"end":391.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.42534375,"end":393.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.16346875000005,"end":396.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.31909375000004,"end":414.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.02096875,"end":421.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.56846875,"end":429.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.28034375000004,"end":435.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.11471875,"end":441.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.00409375000004,"end":449.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.23909375000005,"end":451.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.89284375000005,"end":452.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.15846875000005,"end":461.14034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.56221875000006,"end":467.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.95784375000005,"end":488.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.84909375,"end":492.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":494.97471875,"end":497.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.64096875,"end":506.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.31159375000004,"end":499.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.71659375,"end":499.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.45034375000006,"end":502.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":507.07409375000003,"end":508.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.98096875000005,"end":512.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.04846875000004,"end":509.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.28846875,"end":512.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.3390937500001,"end":512.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.3897187499999,"end":520.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.86096875,"end":571.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.02971875,"end":521.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.20596875,"end":527.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.22284375,"end":527.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.2178437499999,"end":533.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.04159375,"end":553.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.40596875,"end":598.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.8740937499999,"end":647.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.6953437500001,"end":635.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.74596875,"end":635.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.54159375,"end":650.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":650.64659375,"end":657.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.5022187500001,"end":656.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":657.81846875,"end":708.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.38659375,"end":667.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.95159375,"end":670.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.2647187500002,"end":692.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.5672187499999,"end":699.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.73596875,"end":699.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.9384687500001,"end":699.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.9722187500001,"end":700.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.02284375,"end":700.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.90034375,"end":700.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.92471875,"end":723.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.19721875,"end":718.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.2553437500001,"end":780.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.63471875,"end":804.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.95159375,"end":805.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.18346875,"end":807.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.71909375,"end":808.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.76534375,"end":811.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.71034375,"end":809.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":811.27971875,"end":815.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.33846875,"end":813.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.1397187500002,"end":819.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.56971875,"end":853.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.61096875,"end":852.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":853.9565937500001,"end":865.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":865.7522187500001,"end":868.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":869.31284375,"end":896.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.1147187500001,"end":899.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":897.44346875,"end":899.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":899.3672187500001,"end":902.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":899.7553437500001,"end":899.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.71721875,"end":900.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":901.66221875,"end":904.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":905.32409375,"end":911.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.7578437500001,"end":929.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.97284375,"end":939.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":958.4297187500001,"end":958.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":958.48034375,"end":959.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":959.9653437500001,"end":960.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":960.31971875,"end":960.9778437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.213,"end":16.196,"text":"主席好。有請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。郭昱昴好。院長辛苦了。那我不會問你眼中有沒有只有我。我想這個會期是預算會期,但是很遺憾我們一直到現在是沒有預算可以審。整包全部打包一起"},{"start":41.311,"end":69.187,"text":"在程序委員會就不知道被退了幾次了那離114年中央總預算的這個年度我們只剩下最後是兩個月不到的一個時間那我想根據這個憲法第70條立法院對於行政對於行政院所提的這個預算不得為增加支出之提議主要是為了要防止預算無限的膨脹那立法委員最重要的職責其實應該是勘緊荷包"},{"start":70.879,"end":71.279,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":78.086,"end":100.589,"text":"那另外再根據這個預算法第91條那立法委員所提的法律案大幅增加稅出或者是稅入的時候應該要先徵詢行政院的意見然後去指明這個彌補資金的一個來源必要的時候其實也應該要同時有提案修正其他的法律對嗎?是的"},{"start":102.485,"end":124.93,"text":"我想這個都是我們應該要遵守的一個最重要的法源的依據當然這個10月初的時候其實我也特別前往我自己的任陽的責任區包含在桃園不管是鐵路地下化也好或者是在這個國道3號連接大溪路段的那個開通的儀式也好"},{"start":125.69,"end":147.469,"text":"那我自己深刻的感覺到就是在地方的活動尤其是在地方政府的部分那也有很多除了我以外當然還有我們的國民黨的立委同事們他們也都會在場那很有趣的一個現象是他們都會說我們需要中央跟地方合力來"},{"start":149.168,"end":149.528,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":176.857,"end":196.991,"text":"就如委員的觀察我想從中央到地方的民意代表也都很期待中央地方各項的合作也因為這樣的觀察我們也看到這樣的需要所以我始終保持著很高度的樂觀跟信心我認為終究還是會走到一個大家最期待的那個地步那就是"},{"start":198.379,"end":201.662,"text":"兩院合作兩院互相尊重中央地方互相合作"},{"start":211.018,"end":211.739,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":231.417,"end":232.338,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":250.162,"end":268.276,"text":"災害其實目前都還在計算當中還在計算這個災損的部分那我一直不斷的在強調其實這個災損它的建設尤其是修復的一個整個所有的過程它會是跨年度的那如果114年的總預算我們一直沒有辦法負為審查請問災損的預算能編列嗎?"},{"start":274.873,"end":296.407,"text":"今年度當然我們的災害準備金是全部都用完了就比如農業部來看災害準備金用的已經超越超過非常非常多了那我們還有其他的方式來找尋這個財源那目前我們也找到適當的方式但未來就看災害來了多少我那天到蘭嶼我特別才知道我們兩年前小選颱風來的時候編了10億讓蘭嶼所有的電纜地下化"},{"start":300.95,"end":315.3,"text":"明年年中間的中他會做好所以他未來就比較不怕颱風像類似這種跨好幾個年度而且是對這偏遠地區的這個經費的建設跟補助我想中央是從來不會怠慢的"},{"start":316.498,"end":329.706,"text":"昨天其實這個財劃法我們在財政委員會雖然我是教文委員會的外委的這個部分但是我是從早上這個8點半其實就已經在這邊stand by從早上9點一直到晚上的半夜12點"},{"start":331.125,"end":359.75,"text":"那我的這個中指也受傷了,整個噢聲很大一顆。那我想這個才化法的部分其實不是不修,而是25年當中其實我們都沒有達到一定的共識。那這個共識包含我們的22個縣市的地方他們的聲音,在很多的指標當中其實沒有達到共識。你去急著修這個所謂的才化法,要向中央挖錢。那我想這個相對來講對我們來講是將來也是一個很大的一個挑戰。"},{"start":360.57,"end":360.77,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":379.599,"end":379.979,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":397.278,"end":412.387,"text":"不分所有的類別全部被打包式的退回卡關到目前沒有預算可審他其實還包含社福包含教文包含經濟發展甚至包含國防的預算也將近有4760億"},{"start":415.089,"end":440.551,"text":"那我覺得這個國家的安全其實是非常非常的重要那接下來呢我想呢在這個在野黨不斷的在阻擋總預算的一個情況之下國防部的軍事投資跟作業的維持計畫也有可能遭受到嚴重的影響我剛剛講了4700多億的這樣子的一個預算那是不是有可能會開了國家安全的大門"},{"start":442.285,"end":456.685,"text":"為了2026也好或者2027也好大家傳言當中的中共要干擾台灣犯台來為他們開這個大門會不會相對有嚴重的影響"},{"start":457.245,"end":457.505,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":474.511,"end":474.711,"text":"主席"},{"start":498.079,"end":517.81,"text":"總統也已經講過了,我們展現自我防衛的能力跟決心,在這個重要關鍵的時刻,特別是國際社會會看著你,就是說你到底有沒有自我防衛的能力跟決心。我們穩健地增加國防預算,運用在相關領域,不對稱戰力、後備戰力提升、作戰韌性。"},{"start":521.576,"end":549.916,"text":"我們現在每天要應對這個中國每天的軍事東俄跟會社地帶的起擾我們這些相關的這些作業維持會也好這個軍事投資也好還有人員的維持這個都是很重要的所以如果沒有過的話我想世界各國都會質疑你這個有沒有這樣的能力跟決心那這樣的話比如說我也提到就是說美國事實上用了很多像這個PDA就是總統的特別提供權"},{"start":550.66,"end":566.127,"text":"還有FMF就是無償的軍援像這樣子都是因為基於這個臺灣關係法跟六項保證來支持我們那如果我們自己沒有辦法通過這個國防預算來展現自我防衛的能力跟決心的話那他就會開始質疑你說"},{"start":570.454,"end":593.545,"text":"所以其實我們真的不禁要想到這個削弱整個所有我們的總預算的審查的一個進度其實相對來講也削弱我們的國防防禦的一個能力那這個到底他們幕後的背後的動機到底是什麼其實我們真的嚴重的懷疑好為什麼我會特別提到這個部分呢因為其實我們都知道現在國防光是要流財其實也相當的不容易"},{"start":593.985,"end":594.145,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":611.141,"end":638.24,"text":"那最主要的原因是不是可能直接就跟薪資待遇是有關的吼那104人力銀行的數據呢顯示2024年的平均月薪已經達到了4.7萬吼那但是呢其實我們的國軍中士以下的一個階級薪資是普遍低於這樣的一個水準吼那我想呢這個部分是不是也可以請國防部這邊回應我們一下到底這個薪資偏低我們要怎麼樣來補救我們要怎麼樣來提供解方"},{"start":638.68,"end":638.8,"text":"主席"},{"start":650.805,"end":678.296,"text":"招募人才是要加強然後要留營率也要加強然後這個我們要讓這個志願役的官士兵的薪資待遇能夠跟這個社會的這個一般的薪資要能夠相比這也很重要所以我們是有在研議就是說有關志願役的勤務加級還有現在邊線比比較低的就是說主戰部隊的這個加級"},{"start":679.312,"end":700.836,"text":"那是不是要來增加?那當然這個要視這個財政的預度。那我們研議完,我們還要跟主計總署、人事總署我們還要來商量,然後再後在報行這邊來審議。那這個薪資有一定的跟...現在我們幾乎已經快是一個充分就業的一個社會,所以我們要跟社會來拚這個資源役的這個..."},{"start":704.377,"end":704.757,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":724.384,"end":748.395,"text":"好,那接下來其實我要問的就是關於我們的教育的部分了好,也謝謝兩位好,然後我想呢關於我們的教育的部分在教育現場的部分其實光是導師職務的一個佳節上次在總預算其實我沒有辦法把它問完那光是導師的職務的部分那班導師其實大家都知道他承擔了很多很多的責任那包含學生的情緒的管理"},{"start":748.735,"end":749.816,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．郭昱晴"},{"start":765.024,"end":766.385,"text":"第三個部分呢其實也是最辛苦的"},{"start":792.614,"end":795.076,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．郭昱晴二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．郭昱晴"},{"start":807.722,"end":829.207,"text":"教育部長首先謝謝委員陳希上一次繼續給我們這樣一個提醒那我想教育部應該要有一個在制度面上的全盤的考量跟檢討尤其是我們知道其實在學校的部分其實在教務的加級其實不要講說教務的加級其實軍公教已經調新這近8年調整了11%但是問題是我們也承諾114年也預告會再調整3%"},{"start":837.429,"end":837.889,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":866.772,"end":892.859,"text":"感謝委員的關心但是因為這個中小學導師我們確實現在是3000那但是因為我們有學校裡邊中小學他的樣態跟大學比較不太一樣他的許多行政工作確實是由中小學老師來兼任那我們考慮到整體的這個老師在行政工作上的兼任到他的一個差距上怎麼樣整體來考量我想我們會"},{"start":893.619,"end":894.18,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":905.55,"end":929.52,"text":"這一個人事總署我們研議一下然後包括這一個再跟院長做報告我只剩下十幾秒最後就是特教助理員的加級的部分特教助理員的部分尤其是他們的時薪在六都當中最重要的北部的這四都從新北、台北、桃園、台中他們的時薪是被減少的也就是說他們"},{"start":945.049,"end":946.73,"text":"主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1457,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（16時18分）主席好，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["郭委員昱晴：我不會問你眼中有沒有只有我。我想這個會期是預算會期，但是很遺憾，我們一直到現在是沒有預算可以審，整包全部打包一起在程序委員會就不知道被退了幾次，114年度中央政府總預算我們只剩下最後不到兩個月的時間可以審查。我想根據憲法第七十條，立法院對於行政院所提的預算，不得為增加支出之提議。主要是為了防止預算無限的膨脹，而立法委員最重要的職責，其實應該是看緊荷包，而非無限上綱的支出，對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：憲政的設計原意就是如此。"],["郭委員昱晴：是。另外再根據預算法第九十一條，立法委員所提的法律案大幅增加歲出或者是減少歲入的時候，應該要先徵詢行政院的意見，然後指明彌補資金的來源；必要的時候其實也應該要同時提案修正其他法律。對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我想這個都是我們應該要遵守的一個最重要的法源依據。當然10月初的時候，我也特別前往我自己認養的責任區，包含在桃園，不管是鐵路地下化也好，或者是在國道3號連結大溪路段的開通儀式也好，我自己深刻的感覺到，在地方的活動，尤其是在地方政府的部分，除了我以外，當然還有我們國民黨的立委同事們，他們也都會在場，很有趣的一個現象是，他們都會說我們需要中央跟地方合力來做一個這樣子的交通建設，中央應該要好好來補助一下我們地方；但問題是，類似這樣子一個攸關交通預算，光是桃園的部分就高達70億，但我們總預算一直沒有辦法順利付委進行審查，那這個部分是不是一定就會去延宕到地方政府在交通上的重要建設？"],["卓院長榮泰：就如委員的觀察，我想從中央到地方的民意代表，也都很期待中央、地方各項的合作，也因為這樣的觀察，我們也看到這樣的需要，所以我始終保持著很高度的樂觀跟信心，我認為終究還是會走到一個大家最期待的那個地步，那就是兩院合作、兩院互相尊重，中央、地方互相合作。"],["郭委員昱晴：有時候我們在那裡感受到那種氛圍，但回到這裡又是不一樣，我都懷疑可能有一些人在個性上可能有比較不一樣的雙面感覺。另外，像前兩天新竹縣長楊文科縣長，他也在活動當中呼籲新竹縣的區域立委，他還特別點名林思銘委員，還有徐欣瑩委員，關於總預算，呼籲他們兩位趕快配合、趕快通過，但是回到這裡可能又是不太一樣的一個樣態，我們也是匪夷所思！","另外，其實特別有提到山陀兒颱風才剛過，還有康芮強颱當然也造成很多地方的一些災害，目前都還在計算當中，還在計算災損的部分。我一直不斷的在強調，其實災損的建設，尤其是整個修復的所有過程，它會是跨年度的，如果114年的總預算，我們一直沒有辦法付委審查，請問災損的預算能編列嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：今年度我們的災害準備金當然是全部都用完了，比如就農業部來看，災害準備金用的已經超越……"],["郭委員昱晴：已經用完了？"],["卓院長榮泰：超過非常非常多了！"],["郭委員昱晴：所以已經要……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們還要用其他方式找尋財源，目前我們也找到適當的方式。但未來就看災害來了多少，我那天到蘭嶼，我特別才知道，兩年前小犬颱風來的時候，我們編了10億讓蘭嶼所有電纜地下化，到明年年中會做好，所以它未來就比較不怕颱風，類似這種跨好幾個年度，而且是對偏遠地區的建設跟補助經費，我想中央是從來不會怠慢的！"],["郭委員昱晴：好。昨天財劃法在財政委員會，雖然我是教文委員會的委員，就是外委的部分，但是我是從早上8點半就已經在那邊stand by，從早上9點一直到半夜12點，我的中指也受傷了，整個瘀青很大一塊。我想財劃法的部分其實不是不修，而是25年當中，我們都沒有達到一定的共識，這個共識包含我們22個縣市地方他們的聲音，在很多指標當中並沒有達到共識，但卻急著修財劃法，要向中央挖錢，我想相對來講，對我們來講，將來也是一個很大的挑戰。這個戰場，包含昨天坐在財政委員會會議室當中，從早坐到晚很辛苦的我們部會首長，在這個部分，我們再一次向藍白喊話，好嗎？我們希望趕快把總預算付委審查，財劃法要好好的溝通，取得地方的共識才行！","我為什麼前言要講這麼多？我相信包含很多災害準備金也好，明年度的總預算也好，其實不分所有類別，全部被打包式地退回、卡關到目前沒有預算可審，它其實還包含社福、包含教文、包含經濟發展，甚至包含國防的預算也將近有4,760億，我覺得國家安全其實是非常重要的。接下來我想在在野黨不斷阻擋總預算的情況之下，國防部的軍事投資跟作業的維持計畫也有可能遭受到嚴重的影響，我剛剛講了，有四千七百多億，這樣的預算是不是有可能開了國家安全的大門？為了2026也好，或者2027也好，大家傳言當中的中共要干擾臺灣，為他們犯臺而開了這個大門，會不會相對有嚴重地影響？","我們現在就來看一下包含軍事的投資1,458億，這個新增的案件，包含潛艦國造後續的整個進程，以及新型的步槍等等，其實這個都是非常重要的國防支出，我們必須把錢花在國防的刀口上以保衛臺灣的安全，這樣其實都是為了提升我們所謂不對稱的戰力跟後備部隊的戰備能力，但是總預算現在沒過，這個部分會不會被削弱？"],["顧部長立雄：我早上也已經講過了，我們要展現自我防衛的能力跟決心，在這個重要關鍵的時刻，特別是國際社會會看著你，看你到底有沒有自我防衛的能力跟決心。我們穩健地增加國防預算，應用在相關的不對稱戰力、後備戰力的提升、作戰韌性，乃至於我們現在每天要應對來自中國每天的軍事恫嚇跟灰色地帶的侵擾。我們這些相關的作業維持費也好，軍事投資也好……"],["郭委員昱晴：還有人員的維持。"],["顧部長立雄：是，還有人員的維持，這個都是很重要的，所以如果沒有過的話，我想世界各國都會質疑你有沒有這樣的能力跟決心。這樣的話，譬如說我也提到，美國事實上用了很多項PDA（總統特別提用權）還有FMF的無償軍援，像這樣子都是基於臺灣關係法跟六項保證來支持我們，如果我們自己沒有辦法通過這個國防預算，以展現自我防衛的能力跟決心的話，它就會開始質疑你，你自己都不幫你自己了，我為什麼還要這樣無償地援助你？"],["郭委員昱晴：所以我們不禁要想到，削弱整個總預算審查的進度，其實相對來講也削弱了我們國防防禦的能力，他們背後的動機到底是什麼，我們真的嚴重地懷疑。","為什麼我會特別提到這個部分呢？因為我們都知道，現在國防光是要留才其實也相當不容易，在留才不易的狀況之下，是不是有可能是因為他們的薪資誘因比較低的緣故？我們大家都知道，其實加薪的部分是屬於所謂的新興計畫之一，國防部目前可以看到士兵的人數普遍低於所謂的需求，最主要的原因是不是可能直接跟薪資待遇有關？104人力銀行的數據也顯示2024年的平均月薪已經達到4.7萬，但是我們國軍中士以下的階級，其薪資是普遍低於這樣的水準，我想這個部分是不是也可以請國防部這邊回應我們一下，到底這個薪資偏低我們要怎麼樣補救、要怎麼樣提供解方，再把我們能夠防禦臺灣的軍力，在人力的部分把它備齊？我們要怎麼樣提高這樣的誘因？"],["顧部長立雄：我們招募人才是要加強，留營率也要加強，然後我們要讓志願役官士兵的薪資待遇要能跟社會一般的薪資相比，這也很重要，所以我們是有在研議，就是說有關志願役的勤務加給，還有現在編現比比較低的，就是主戰部隊的加給是不是要增加。當然這個要視財政的裕度，我們研議完還要跟主計總處、人事總處商量，然後再報行政院審議。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，如果有進一步……"],["顧部長立雄：現在我們幾乎已經快是一個充分就業的社會，所以我們志願役的人力補足要跟社會來拚是滿……"],["郭委員昱晴：好，這個人力的補足如果將來有一些比較具體的文字或者是計畫的部分，再麻煩提供給我們辦公室來作為參考……"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：這個部分其實我們也是要替他們爭取，但回歸到一句話，114年中央總預算沒有付委審查，講的什麼東西都是空的。","接著下來我要問的就是關於我們教育的部分。也謝謝兩位。關於我們教育的部分，在教育現場，光是導師的職務加給，上次在總質詢其實我沒有辦法把它問完，光是導師職務的部分，大家都知道，班導師承擔了很多很多的責任，包含學生的情緒管理，或者是學生秩序上的管理，甚至在下課之後，他還要面臨跟家長上面的溝通、輔導，以及跟家長的聯繫，有些導師除了在教學以外，還要負擔很多所謂的行政工作，我想這是第一線導師，我們能夠想像的，他的工作壓力到底有多大。","另外，我要提的是國中小的導師，從101年開始，2,000元調漲到3,000元，但是已經有12年沒有調了；在高中導師的部分，106年從2,000元調整到3,000元，7年的時間沒有調整；第三個部分，其實也是最辛苦的，就是特殊教育的教師擔任導師，更是從民國80年到現在，超過30年，從1,800元都沒有調整。這個部分，請問教育部長？"],["卓院長榮泰：首先謝謝委員，承續上一次繼續給我們這樣一個提醒，我想教育部應該要在制度面上有一個全盤的考量及檢討……"],["郭委員昱晴：尤其我們知道，在學校的部分，在教務的加給，不要講教務的加給，其實軍公教已經調薪，近8年已經調整了11%，問題是我們也預告114年會再調整3%，但是又回歸到總預算沒過，這3%也是空談，問題是導師的部分，還有特教導師的部分，教育部長是不是可以幫大家一起爭取一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長答復。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心，確實，在中小學裡面，由於所面臨的教學挑戰，我們老師要承擔的責任越來越大，也感謝委員的關心，我們中小學導師確實現在是3,000元，但是因為中小學學校裡面的樣態跟大學比較不太一樣，它的許多行政工作確實是由中小學老師來兼任，我們考慮到整體的老師在行政工作上兼任的差距怎麼樣整體來考量，我們會跟人事總處有一個……"],["郭委員昱晴：另外就是特教導師的部分。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，還有包含特教……"],["郭委員昱晴：30幾年，這個我們比較急，三十幾年沒調整，這個對他們來講不公平。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，這個我們來跟人事總處研議一下，再跟院長做報告。"],["郭委員昱晴：我只剩下十幾秒。","最後就是特教助理員的加給部分，尤其是他們的時薪，在六都當中，最重要的北部這四都，從新北、臺北、桃園到臺中，他們的時薪是被減少的，也就是他們被減時數，被減時數之後，其實直接影響的就是他們的生計，還有學生被輔導的服務品質，我想這個部分可能用書面來提供給我們，就我們怎麼樣來幫這些特教助理員的部分，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我會請教育部給我一個檢討報告，我們再跟委員來做請教。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們幼保員時薪的這個部分，我們會來看怎麼樣有一個時薪的保障……"],["郭委員昱晴：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、部會首長的備詢。","接下來請登記第32號高金素梅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156513","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156513","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41306a937ea24b2177e3fd33acf0e4cf8b052879ca95171cd1739ca4563886b2115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"15:51:56 - 16:07:27","影片長度":"00:15:31","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T15:51:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T16:07:27+08:00","duration":931,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.004093750000003,"end":11.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.30346875,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.665968750000001,"end":15.235343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.22159375,"end":22.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.301593750000002,"end":23.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.516593750000002,"end":27.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.58346875,"end":31.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.70534375,"end":39.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.77159375,"end":41.307218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.86409375,"end":42.454718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.52221875,"end":44.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.95221875,"end":49.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.132843750000006,"end":54.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.705968750000004,"end":62.164718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.666593750000004,"end":65.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.55659375,"end":71.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.03659375000001,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.63534375,"end":80.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.67659375000001,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.92471875000001,"end":87.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.27034375000001,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.21534375,"end":92.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.50596875000001,"end":96.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.79221875,"end":98.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.56409375000001,"end":100.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.39909375,"end":101.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.12034375,"end":104.70659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.04409375,"end":106.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.00159375000001,"end":107.62596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.36846875,"end":109.31346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.58346875000001,"end":111.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.67159375000001,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.51096875,"end":114.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.60784375,"end":116.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.36284375000001,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.18534375,"end":120.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.61534375000001,"end":122.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.35346875,"end":126.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.13346875,"end":129.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.03596875,"end":130.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.82909375,"end":131.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.90909375,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.52909375000002,"end":134.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.09409375,"end":136.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.97159375,"end":141.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.21596875,"end":143.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.53159375,"end":150.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.55596875,"end":156.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.03221875,"end":157.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.16659375,"end":161.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.55846875,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.94596875000002,"end":171.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.88596875000002,"end":175.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.96971875,"end":178.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.77971875,"end":181.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.40346875,"end":183.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.51284375,"end":184.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.56346875,"end":185.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.35221875000002,"end":186.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.41096875000002,"end":191.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.40596875,"end":195.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.30409375000002,"end":205.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.64909375000002,"end":207.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.51346875000002,"end":208.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.35284375,"end":213.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.92159375,"end":216.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.52034375000002,"end":221.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.88721875000002,"end":218.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.41846875000002,"end":222.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.22409375,"end":224.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.50221875000003,"end":225.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.39659375000002,"end":226.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.40471875,"end":233.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.68659375000001,"end":235.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.79596875000001,"end":235.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.21784375000001,"end":238.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.52159375000002,"end":235.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.66034375,"end":240.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.04409375,"end":241.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.27596875,"end":247.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.45221875000001,"end":248.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.66721875000002,"end":256.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.39159375,"end":262.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.09096875,"end":266.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.20909375,"end":266.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.47034375000004,"end":266.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.48721875,"end":266.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.50409375000004,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.31409375000004,"end":267.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.03971875,"end":270.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.08159375,"end":270.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.26721875000004,"end":273.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.06409375000004,"end":276.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.88221875,"end":280.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.33784375,"end":278.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.08409375,"end":283.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.20596875,"end":285.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.59409375,"end":285.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.01159375000003,"end":286.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.83846875,"end":289.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.52159375,"end":292.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.84596875,"end":297.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.09409375,"end":305.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.16034375000004,"end":307.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.38784375,"end":309.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.48034375000003,"end":312.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.83846875,"end":315.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.63971875000004,"end":318.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.47909375,"end":321.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.52096875,"end":322.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.80346875000004,"end":331.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.08034375,"end":333.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.75096875,"end":334.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.16846875000005,"end":339.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.16346875000005,"end":340.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.18034375,"end":342.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.36596875000004,"end":341.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.49221875,"end":344.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.42846875000004,"end":346.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.72784375000003,"end":348.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.89221875000004,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.03784375000004,"end":361.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.52721875000003,"end":366.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.26471875000004,"end":371.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.71971875,"end":372.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.82909375,"end":373.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.96409375,"end":377.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.30096875000004,"end":379.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.85346875000005,"end":383.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.07221875000005,"end":391.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.12659375000004,"end":387.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.80096875000004,"end":397.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.16284375000004,"end":402.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.80346875000004,"end":411.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.23659375000005,"end":414.37971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.66659375,"end":414.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.78471875,"end":416.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.52721875000003,"end":417.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.02471875000003,"end":418.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.89784375000005,"end":423.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.94784375,"end":424.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.38221875000005,"end":426.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.47909375,"end":431.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.69846875,"end":426.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.46596875,"end":435.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.97971875,"end":444.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.70409375,"end":445.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.82221875000005,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.88096875,"end":446.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.91471875,"end":447.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.21409375,"end":452.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.05721875,"end":456.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.05659375000005,"end":457.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.88346875,"end":458.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.90034375000005,"end":457.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.96784375000004,"end":458.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.55409375000005,"end":465.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.96659375,"end":469.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.37096875000003,"end":473.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.76284375000006,"end":476.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.93534375,"end":481.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.87971875000005,"end":493.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.94534375,"end":495.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.10534375000003,"end":498.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.45096875,"end":501.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.82596875,"end":502.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.33221875000004,"end":503.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.76659375,"end":505.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.62284375,"end":514.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.3090937500001,"end":515.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.94596875,"end":518.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.5490937500001,"end":520.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.5403437500001,"end":521.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.46846875,"end":524.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.4853437500001,"end":522.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.39221875,"end":524.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.84346875,"end":526.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":525.36659375,"end":525.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.48471875,"end":525.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":525.53534375,"end":525.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.93596875,"end":528.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.43346875,"end":530.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.5178437500001,"end":529.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.5347187500001,"end":537.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":538.0903437500001,"end":541.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":541.83659375,"end":545.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.22846875,"end":545.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.2622187500001,"end":550.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.48159375,"end":545.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.83096875,"end":552.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":552.36659375,"end":553.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.8178437500001,"end":555.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.62346875,"end":560.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.83784375,"end":562.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.0990937500001,"end":570.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.1653437500001,"end":577.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.7634687500001,"end":580.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.8347187500001,"end":580.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.8515937500001,"end":581.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.1047187500001,"end":581.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":581.34096875,"end":581.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.4253437500001,"end":581.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":581.47596875,"end":591.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.5603437500001,"end":582.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.07846875,"end":587.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.9809687500001,"end":590.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.29721875,"end":599.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.5615937499999,"end":603.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.54409375,"end":643.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":643.4240937500001,"end":644.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.07784375,"end":659.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.80971875,"end":660.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.53534375,"end":661.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.03721875,"end":663.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.5559687500001,"end":664.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.60221875,"end":665.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.1884687500001,"end":668.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.7534687500001,"end":674.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.41909375,"end":676.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.41471875,"end":679.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":679.6884687500001,"end":689.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.48846875,"end":696.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.47471875,"end":707.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.07221875,"end":712.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.84784375,"end":713.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.3159687500001,"end":715.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.78409375,"end":717.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.4209687500002,"end":719.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.3615937500001,"end":725.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.66471875,"end":733.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.1072187500001,"end":730.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.0303437500002,"end":740.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.0290937500001,"end":744.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":744.35346875,"end":748.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.7534687500001,"end":751.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.31846875,"end":753.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.1240937500002,"end":757.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.0222187500001,"end":764.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.7890937500001,"end":771.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.60659375,"end":778.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":778.37346875,"end":786.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":786.2709687500001,"end":787.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":787.38471875,"end":790.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.18159375,"end":797.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.18909375,"end":814.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.8203437500001,"end":807.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.85409375,"end":808.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.8115937500002,"end":810.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.30096875,"end":810.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.97596875,"end":811.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.5834687500001,"end":813.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":814.9753437500001,"end":817.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":817.45596875,"end":826.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.3953437500002,"end":828.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.40784375,"end":830.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":832.08659375,"end":837.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":837.57096875,"end":845.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.3672187500001,"end":847.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":845.5359687500002,"end":865.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.9209687500002,"end":871.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":872.0803437500001,"end":874.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.56096875,"end":875.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.6240937500002,"end":878.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.77971875,"end":880.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.3953437500002,"end":883.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":883.25159375,"end":884.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.25971875,"end":887.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":888.21284375,"end":914.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.43909375,"end":899.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.26159375,"end":901.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":908.7665937500001,"end":909.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":913.35659375,"end":916.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":916.9340937500001,"end":918.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.42346875,"end":921.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":921.9965937500001,"end":924.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":924.2578437500001,"end":925.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":925.62471875,"end":927.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":931.05846875,"end":932.35784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.515,"end":15.219,"text":"謝謝韓院長。我想要請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。都有很多很多醫生的部分要跟你說的。"},{"start":28.675,"end":43.591,"text":"因為像畫館有很多問題0到6歲國家養0到2歲小朋友有10個鄉鎮現在都沒有托嬰中心我們需要2點多億然後今年因為"},{"start":45.172,"end":61.786,"text":"憲法法庭的判決導致了代理教師他們值錢的年資需要增加所有的經費大概是什麼光彰化線就需要八千萬到一億"},{"start":63.715,"end":64.396,"text":"不過 我想想欸"},{"start":89.189,"end":101.439,"text":"還有一個很大的問題需要解決比我們今天總議選更大的問題你知道美國現在要發生什麼事情嗎?美國很高興在選總統他們在選總統是不是?前幾天外交部的吳次長他說吳志忠吳次長一說他very worried請問"},{"start":119.246,"end":130.422,"text":"他在擔憂的是什麼他這個worry這個字我如果回看他的原文的話他應該是有被這件這個字有被放大了他說我們會"},{"start":131.943,"end":133.684,"text":"在選舉過程當中聽到的一些政策﹖"},{"start":151.449,"end":174.732,"text":"這是我們準備,心裡有準備啦,心裡我看她的專程講什麼。還是要反而說,我們的行政院都沒有準備。我今天不是要說押寶誰喔,而是我們的政府對於未來美國總統是誰當選。我們有沒有做好所有相關的規劃。"},{"start":175.993,"end":190.127,"text":"委員你在這裡應該很有信心任何的企業現在都要做好準備我們當然是一個有準備的國家政府我問你我們的行政院做好什麼準備"},{"start":197.18,"end":216.045,"text":"這是假設性的問題啦我們現在不能隨便在這裡說一定是誰我沒有 我當然是說scenario 1嘛 我是說scenario 1嘛美國民主選舉之後假設情境一嘛 你要再算出來是川普總統這樣的話 我們的國家做好準備沒有"},{"start":216.567,"end":220.931,"text":"我問你,我問你,現在如果是1以後我們的國防預算要增加成我們GDP的10%目前我們的國防預算是多少?"},{"start":220.931,"end":221.331,"text":"卓院長"},{"start":238.666,"end":242.009,"text":"目前我們的國防預算是多少?我們在明年度編的國防預算包括所有的這個"},{"start":264.104,"end":264.164,"text":"應該是2.34之間吧"},{"start":281.372,"end":309.558,"text":"對啦!你這個還回答得很正確啊!我給你丟地了!這個很重要的事情!對!阿!不過我要請教你的是如果按照川普他的要求候選人、總統候選人他現在的要求未來他如果當選的話他希望台灣可以增加國防預算到我們GDP的10%現在GDP明年預估是多少?"},{"start":310.598,"end":315.02,"text":"26兆4千億那10%是多少?2.6兆那我會請教你我們只會在這個地方從事我們自己應該有的採購作業我要問你的是今年我們國家的政府總預算是多少錢?稅入多少?"},{"start":340.236,"end":340.537,"text":"稅率是3兆1521對不對,3兆1500"},{"start":345.455,"end":345.815,"text":"所以你保證"},{"start":373.868,"end":397.788,"text":"你保證我們的國防預算絕對不會增加委員我想我們都是會依照我們的作戰時需來進行我們必要的國防預算的編列那國防預算的穩定的成長是我們一貫的政策那我們一定會按照我們整個國土防衛構想所需要的這個能力建構來進行我們必要的"},{"start":398.308,"end":424.148,"text":"會不會讓國防預算排擠到我們其他的我們的長照預算我們的社福預算我們的教育預算所有的法定支出呢會不會我們過去幾年不會未來也絕對不會在國家經濟會發展的結果過去沒有可是明天如果在國際上發生了重大的變數的時候會不會"},{"start":425.624,"end":452.478,"text":"怎麼保證?要怎麼做到?第一個是假設誰當選的問題。第二個是當選之後,美國的...你要怎麼樣保證我們政府的,不管是社福、長照,還有我們的醫療預算以及教育預算,不會被國防預算排擠?要怎麼保證?你要怎麼保證?明年的預算已經在這裡了。只要大院通過,我們就照這個通過的預算執行。"},{"start":453.1,"end":480.411,"text":"我想要知道的是,你要如何維持?明年?後年呢?後年我們在上半年邊概算的時候,我們就會衡量後年的需求。但是不可能有一個非常巨幅的改變,改變到整個我們這個所有預算依照正式別的比例分配。但是我認為我們要調整的是其他支出的一些調整,可以調整,但是不會像委員所顧慮、擔憂的那個現象。"},{"start":481.943,"end":501.252,"text":"我不是在顧慮也不是在擔憂但是明天如果是這樣子的情境發生的時候我們的行政院到底做好了像什麼樣子的準備那還有他在競選的時候說他認為我們的台積電是偷他們的美國的晶片生意"},{"start":501.872,"end":525.201,"text":"那有人在說,會不會在他當選之後,要求台積電要從台灣下市,從美國,在美國上市,會不會發生這樣子的問題?會不會?我不知道,我要問你啊。因為這都是,這都是不可知的變數。"},{"start":527.217,"end":554.912,"text":"他能回答嗎?還是有其他人?有關委員關心因為美國是民主的國家選舉或政黨輪替這都是常態我們也都做好準備各種選舉的結果我們都有相應的做法基本上我們對台美關係是有信心至於台積電我想基本上它是外資的占多數的公司"},{"start":555.672,"end":556.993,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．謝衣鳯二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．謝衣鳯"},{"start":581.181,"end":585.082,"text":"所以對於台積電對於台灣最重要保護我們區域安全的這樣的一間公司不會受到相關的影響是不是"},{"start":604.588,"end":621.124,"text":"基本上這個供應鏈來講還有整個上中下游的分工那當然在製程上面我們是有它的優勢可是整個半導體的供應鏈還有上游還有中游還有下游所以還是以美國佔最大的一個比例"},{"start":621.784,"end":642.734,"text":"所以這個是一個互補的關係那晶片法案它也是一個立法通過的我想這個都會在這個法律的基礎下來持續的執行所以在這一點上面倒是不用太擔心另外就是其實在美國方面的不管媒體還有這個半導體的專家也都持續的有發言"},{"start":643.514,"end":646.655,"text":"我最後還是要請問院長其實我們知道即便是今天"},{"start":668.786,"end":689.648,"text":"我們的總預算沒有通過過去我看到了在95、96年的時候即便那時候是陳水扁擔任總統的時候在96年的年中才通過了政府的預算但是因為根據我們預算法只要是"},{"start":690.549,"end":706.986,"text":"法定支出的只要是經常性支出是沒有問題的為什麼最近很大的爭議都是在在野黨黨預算所以讓我們的政府部門沒有經費我認為這是我們行政院需要澄清的部分"},{"start":708.2,"end":736.122,"text":"報告委員我們國家正處於一個高度的創新研發的時代各項的產業要新興向榮新的產業一直在增加外國的廠商也一直會進來所以對很多的新興項目對很多的新增的項目你終於講真話了吧對於新增的項目才有影響對於接續性的沒有影響是不是但是新增跟新興項目如果沒有辦法從1月份開始執行的話"},{"start":736.903,"end":740.007,"text":"即便是公務員的加薪從明年開始,我們未來在預算通過後,我們也可以再來支付是不是?"},{"start":752.344,"end":770.883,"text":"我早上講過了對軍公教人員或許我們還可以對他們訴諸以理但是對很多人民急迫的需求健康福利的照顧一日都不能耽誤很多國際的合作合作之下我們這個共同的信任關係也不能夠破壞所以我還是誠懇的希望"},{"start":771.544,"end":772.404,"text":"問題是我們在這個中間溝通的過程當中"},{"start":791.415,"end":812.682,"text":"執政黨並沒有充分的告訴民眾啊我們現在充斥著在外面的這個新聞的資訊裡面你沒有告訴民眾啊我們即便是預算沒有過也不會有這些問題而是新興的計畫沒有辦法來產生你們在民間告訴民眾的就是"},{"start":815.243,"end":818.567,"text":"預算連過都沒有過我們的預備金也沒有啊"},{"start":832.128,"end":852.89,"text":"我是說你們還是可以這個是根據預算法你是可以動用的啊是不是委員你說我們沒有提出我們的方法我們的方法一直寫在這裡可是委員一直強調的是你的問題後來不去看我的方法那我如果方法提出來大家來看我是說我現在是說你就是一直在用這樣那如果你一直在"},{"start":854.19,"end":880.42,"text":"誣衊在野黨的時候沒有一個良性的溝通未來大家沒有辦法再繼續討論下去啊我們在立法院的政治協商也沒有辦法繼續進行啊是不是沒有誣衊在野黨甚至我們在這裡是很誠懇的希望大家能夠在互相尊重情況底下就憲法跟法律的精神跟規定建立一個可以完全互動的模式這是唯一的原則如果建立起來今年我們來解決"},{"start":881.62,"end":908.142,"text":"預算能夠讓他如期的上路這對大家都好我們希望說在立法院所有立法委員職責當然是監督預算我相信不只是我們在野黨的你們執政黨的也想要監督政府的預算執行啊是不是那是不是應該給予執政黨就應該給予立法院有充分的空間可以監督預算嗎"},{"start":908.843,"end":909.023,"text":"謝謝謝衣鳯委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1351,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（15時52分）謝謝韓院長，我想要請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：卓院長好。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我有很多很多預算的問題要跟你說，因為彰化縣有很多問題，像0到6歲國家養，針對0到2歲的小朋友，現在我們有10個鄉鎮都沒有托嬰中心，同時也需要二點多億經費；然後今年因為憲法法庭的判決，導致了代理教師他們職前的年資需要增加，所有的經費大概是多少？光彰化縣就需要8,000萬到1億；還有非常多的問題，像過去在前瞻裡面，我們要改善交通，包括停車的部分，未來會不會繼續編？像和美就很需要，因為它是人口密集、人口成長的區域，未來可能需要相關的交通建設。","不過，我想了想，還有一個很大很大的問題需要解決，這比我們今天的總預算還重要的問題，你知道美國現在要發生什麼事情嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：美國很高興地在選總統。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他們在選總統，是不是？前幾天外交部吳志中說他very worry，請問他在擔憂的是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：「worry」這個字，如果回看他的原文、他的話，應該是這個字有被放大了，他說我們在選舉過程當中聽到的一些政策……"],["謝委員衣鳯：他在擔憂什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是他有說，未來的事情應該是變化不大的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是在擔憂明天美國總統選舉結果是川普總統當選還是賀錦麗總統當選嗎？他在擔憂什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們心裡要有準備，我看他的全文是這樣說。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是擔憂我們行政院都沒有準備？我今天不是要談押寶誰，而是我們的政府對於未來美國總統是誰當選，我們有沒有做好所有相關的規劃？包括scenario 1、scenario 2……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員你在這裡應該要有信心。"],["謝委員衣鳯：任何企業現在都要做好準備。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然有準備……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我要問你，如果明天當選美國總統的是川普，行政院做了什麼準備？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是假設性問題，現在我們不能隨便在這裡說一定是誰，或不一定……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問的是scenario 1，我說的是scenario 1！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們等美國民主選舉之後……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是假設情境一，如果明天是川普當選總統，這樣請問我們國家做好準備沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員諒解……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問你……"],["卓院長榮泰：外交事務不能用這種假設狀況……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問你，明天如果是他當選，他說過我們的國防預算要增加到GDP的10%……"],["卓院長榮泰：我只能向委員保證……"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前我們的國防預算是多少，卓院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：我只能肯定告訴委員一件事……"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前我們的國防預算是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：不管明天選出來的美國總統是誰，我們一定誠心誠意恭喜他。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道不管選出來的是誰都要恭喜他，不過我要請教你的是，我們的國防預算現在是多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在明年度編的國防預算，包括所有的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：特別預算加上……"],["卓院長榮泰：對……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是6,470億，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：占目前整體GDP的多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該是2.3%、2.4%之間吧！"],["謝委員衣鳯：你這個還回答得很正確，我恭喜你。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是很重要的事。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不過我要請教你的是，按照川普的要求，他現在是總統候選人的要求，未來他如果當選的話，希望臺灣可以增加國防預算到GDP的10%。現在預估明年GDP是多少？26兆4,000億，那10%是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員也知道我們不可能在一夕之間把國防預算擴大……"],["謝委員衣鳯：2.6兆！我請教你……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會衡量保衛國家安全所需要的各項政策及武器需求，我們只會在這個地方從事我們自己應該有的採購作業。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我要問你的是，今年我們國家的政府總預算是多少錢？歲入多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：歲入是3兆1,524億。"],["謝委員衣鳯：3兆1,500億，對不對？歲出呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：3兆1,325億。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果按照他的要求把我們的國防預算增加為GDP的10%時，那麼所有預算都會被國防預算排擠，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員保證，不會有那樣一夕之間的變化，而且我們自己要衡量我們自己的需求，這是一個主權國家最起碼有的為國家的態度！"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你保證？你保證我們的國防預算絕對不會增加？"],["顧部長立雄：委員，我們會依照我們的作戰實需來進行必要的國防預算編列。國防預算的穩定成長是我們一貫政策，我們一定會按照整個國土防衛構想所需要的人力建構來進行必要的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會讓國防預算排擠到其他的預算，如長照預算、社福預算和我們的教育預算及所有的法定支出？會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們過去幾年不會，未來也絕對不會！在國家經濟發展的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前沒有，可是明天如果國際上發生重大變數時，會不會？怎麼保證？要怎麼做到？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個是假設誰當選的問題，第二個是當選之後，美國的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要怎麼保證政府的，不管是社福、長照，還有我們的醫療預算、教育預算不會被國防預算排擠？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年的預算已經在這裡了！"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要怎麼保證？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年的預算已經在這裡了，只要大院通過，我們就照這個通過的預算執行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想要知道的是你要如何維持？後年呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：後年我們在明年上半年編概算的時候，就會衡量後年的需求，但不可能有非常巨幅的改變，改變到所有預算依照政事別所做的比例分配。但是，我認為我們要調整的是其他支出的一些調整，可以調整，但是不會像委員所顧慮、擔憂的那個現象。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我不是在顧慮，也不是在擔憂，但是明天如果有這樣子的情境發生的時候，我們的行政院到底做好了什麼樣的準備？還有，他在競選的時候說，他認為我們的台積電是偷他們美國的晶片生意，有人在說，會不會在他當選之後要求台積電要從臺灣下市，在美國上市，會不會發生這樣的問題？會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員你認為可能嗎？"],["謝委員衣鳯：我不知道，我要問你啊！因為這都是……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個都是假議題……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這都是不可知的變數！"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長答復一下。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他能回答嗎？還是有其他人？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長清楚的。"],["林部長佳龍：是，有關委員的關心，因為美國是民主國家，選舉或政黨輪替都是常態，我們也都做好準備，各種選舉的結果，我們都有相應的做法，基本上，我們對於台美關係是有信心的。至於台積電，基本上它是外資占多數的公司啦，當然我們臺灣是掌握了製造的技術，而且它在美國的股市上面也一樣都是有上市的，我想這一點是全球的，不是只有臺灣的，而且我們台積電每賺1塊，美國相對來講可能賺3塊以上……"],["卓院長榮泰：它也有相當的……"],["林部長佳龍：所以是互補的、是雙贏的，所以不會有傷害自己的事情發生，我想對美國來說是如此。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以對於台積電，對於臺灣最重要，保護我們區域安全的這樣一間公司不會受到相關影響，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：基本上，以供應鏈來講，還有整個上、中、下游的分工，當然，在製程上我們是具有優勢，但是整個半導體的供應鏈還有上游、中游、下游，所以還是以美國占最大的比例，所以這是一個互補的關係。晶片法案也是立法通過的，我想這都會在法律的基礎下持續的執行，所以在這一點上面倒是不用太擔心。","另外，其實在美國方面，不管媒體或半導體專家也都持續的有發言去澄清，有一些可能因為是政治人物講話的風格，但基本上如果就事論事，我們有信心可以來溝通、來說明，取得更好的互信跟合作。"],["謝委員衣鳯：最後還是要請問院長，其實我們知道，即便是今天我們的總預算沒有通過，過去我看到在95、96年的時候，那是陳水扁擔任總統的時候，即便在96年年中才通過政府的預算，但是根據我們的預算法，只要是法定支出，只要是經常性支出，是沒有問題的，為什麼最近很大的爭議都是說在野黨擋預算，所以讓我們政府部門沒有經費，我認為這是我們行政院需要澄清的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們國家正處於一個高度創新研發的時代，各項產業要欣欣向榮，新的產業一直在增加，外國的廠商也一直會進來，所以對很多的新興項目，對很多的新增項目，如果……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你終於講真話了吧！對於新增的、新興的項目才有影響……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我們現在沒有辦法從1月開始執行的話……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對於接續性的沒有影響，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是新增跟新興項目如果沒有辦法從1月份開始執行的話，拖多久我們就會延多久，國家的進步就會慢多久。"],["謝委員衣鳯：即便是公務員的加薪從明年開始，未來在預算通過後，我們也可以再來支付，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我早上講過了，對軍公教人員，或許我們還可以對他們訴諸以理，但是對很多人民急迫的需求、健康福利的照顧，一日都不能耽誤，很多的國際合作，在合作之下，我們的共同信任關係也不能夠破壞，所以我還是誠懇的希望、理性的拜託，今天的預算報告之後能夠付委，讓它順利通過，如實如期的在新的年度開始執行，所有的新興計畫一併上路，國家發展的角度跟速度一定會比現在快。"],["謝委員衣鳯：問題是我們在中間的溝通過程當中，執政黨並沒有充分的告訴民眾啊！我們現在充斥著，在外面的新聞資訊裡面，你沒有告訴民眾啊，我們即便是預算沒有過，也不會有這些問題，而是新興計畫沒有辦法來產生，你們……"],["卓院長榮泰：這就是大問題啊，委員，這就是大問題啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們在民間告訴民眾的就是，風災來了，如果預算沒有通過，你就沒有辦法補助，問題是你們還是可以動用你們的預備金啊，是不是？有災害預備金啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果預算連過都沒有過，我們的預備金也沒有啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：我是說你們還是可以，根據預算法你是可以動用的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你說我們沒有提出我們的方法，我們的方法一直寫在這裡，可是委員一直強調的是你的問題，從來不去看我們的方法，我們的方法提出來了，大家來看……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我現在是說你就是一直用這樣，如果你一直污衊在野黨的話，沒有一個良性的溝通，未來大家沒辦法再繼續討論下去啊，我們在立法院的政治協商也沒有辦法繼續進行啊，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有污衊在野黨，甚至我們在這裡是很誠懇的希望大家能夠在互相尊重的情況下，就憲法跟法律的精神跟規定，建立一個可以完全互動的模式，這就是唯一的原則，如果建立起來，今年我們來解決，預算讓它能夠如期上路，這對大家都好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們希望在立法院，所有立法委員的職責當然是監督預算，我相信不只是我們在野黨的，你們執政黨的也想要監督政府的預算執行啊，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯、沒錯，所以我們尊重立法院的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那執政黨是不是就應該給予立法院有充分的空間可以監督預算嘛……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們非常……"],["謝委員衣鳯：而不是這樣子不讓立法院來正常運作，我認為……"],["卓院長榮泰：依照憲法，行政院絕對尊重立法院的審查權，行政院對於自己預算權的原則，我們也要極力的爭取跟保障。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是我認為執政黨應該要讓我們所有的立法委員可以充分的討論。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我期待今天有非常好的……"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（16時7分）","繼續開會（16時18分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156512","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156512","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41f7ebed99b622f8e8e3fd33acf0e4cf8b2cbfc2aa8e0105046459bee0242884af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"15:35:03 - 15:51:41","影片長度":"00:16:38","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T15:35:03+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T15:51:41+08:00","duration":998,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.974093750000002,"end":14.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.661593750000002,"end":16.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.41659375,"end":17.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.824093750000003,"end":28.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.75221875,"end":29.511593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.984093750000003,"end":31.671593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.36346875,"end":33.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.32096875,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.10534375,"end":39.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.501593750000005,"end":39.923468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.923468750000005,"end":41.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.290343750000005,"end":42.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.91034375,"end":44.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.783468750000004,"end":45.627218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.11659375,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.065343750000004,"end":51.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.65159375,"end":55.549718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.12346875,"end":56.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.96721875,"end":57.524093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.861593750000004,"end":58.924718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.110343750000006,"end":61.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.299718750000004,"end":62.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.09284375000001,"end":63.750968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.953468750000006,"end":64.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.86034375,"end":67.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.98659375,"end":70.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.20971875000001,"end":73.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.29784375,"end":75.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.61409375000001,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.79909375000001,"end":83.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.91659375,"end":85.94159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.85284375,"end":88.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.89471875000001,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.56534375000001,"end":93.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.04159375,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.86409375000001,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.51784375000001,"end":98.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.55971875,"end":101.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.00659375000001,"end":102.83346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.30596875,"end":104.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.30159375000001,"end":110.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.10221875,"end":114.02159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.22409375000001,"end":118.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.88159375000001,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.20534375000001,"end":134.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.01409375,"end":139.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.22846875000002,"end":145.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.13471875000002,"end":151.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.64846875,"end":155.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.63534375,"end":156.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.25096875,"end":159.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.52909375000002,"end":162.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.12784375,"end":164.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.76471875000001,"end":172.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.16846875000002,"end":177.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.46721875,"end":188.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.52034375000002,"end":192.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.63784375,"end":194.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.93721875,"end":197.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.46846875,"end":198.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.67909375000002,"end":201.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.49721875,"end":206.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.23909375000002,"end":214.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.59221875,"end":234.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.59346875000003,"end":260.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.66534375000003,"end":262.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.56784375,"end":264.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.28909375,"end":267.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.36471875,"end":269.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.69346875,"end":270.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.80721875,"end":271.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.39346875,"end":274.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.27909375,"end":279.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.66659375,"end":281.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.52284375,"end":284.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.61096875000004,"end":299.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.45659375,"end":318.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.00221875,"end":325.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.20784375,"end":326.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.42284375,"end":329.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.49846875000003,"end":330.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.76409375000003,"end":339.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.19721875000005,"end":341.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.69909375000003,"end":343.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.24284375,"end":347.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.23409375,"end":347.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.04409375,"end":348.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.57971875000004,"end":350.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.87909375000004,"end":353.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.92971875,"end":351.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.35971875,"end":353.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.47346875,"end":357.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.03409375,"end":360.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.98721875,"end":362.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.55659375000005,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.45909375,"end":366.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.58971875000003,"end":367.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.12534375,"end":371.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.90534375000004,"end":374.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.01034375,"end":377.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.99721875,"end":384.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.57846875,"end":387.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.97034375000004,"end":389.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.01221875000005,"end":397.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.23034375000003,"end":399.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.51284375,"end":403.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.81596875,"end":412.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.18159375000005,"end":414.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.29096875000005,"end":417.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.77159375,"end":419.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.16784375000003,"end":421.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.88909375000003,"end":425.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.90534375000004,"end":429.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.90471875000003,"end":432.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.26284375,"end":435.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.21596875,"end":441.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.26159375000003,"end":442.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.82659375000003,"end":445.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.29034375000003,"end":450.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.96471875000003,"end":455.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.97659375,"end":456.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.61784375,"end":464.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.70096875,"end":472.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.15534375000004,"end":475.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.56846875,"end":476.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.91846875000005,"end":487.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.60034375000004,"end":491.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.88471875000005,"end":503.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.28971875,"end":505.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.28096875000006,"end":506.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.38221875000005,"end":506.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.55096875000004,"end":506.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.87159375000005,"end":509.58846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.26346875,"end":514.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.22909375,"end":515.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.49034375,"end":517.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.22846875,"end":525.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.3328437499999,"end":527.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.1172187500001,"end":530.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.9015937500001,"end":533.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.83784375,"end":541.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.81971875,"end":544.4522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.7390937499999,"end":546.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.43909375,"end":550.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.4597187500001,"end":552.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.9740937500001,"end":554.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.5053437500001,"end":557.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.4753437500001,"end":568.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.00596875,"end":565.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.02284375,"end":565.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.5290937500001,"end":565.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.81971875,"end":572.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.40596875,"end":570.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.8528437500001,"end":575.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.9409687500001,"end":579.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.8347187500001,"end":582.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.14659375,"end":583.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.75409375,"end":585.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.01534375,"end":590.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.33096875,"end":592.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.18721875,"end":596.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.78159375,"end":598.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.9922187500001,"end":600.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.43909375,"end":614.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.65221875,"end":622.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.35971875,"end":647.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.7609687500001,"end":654.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.5447187500001,"end":660.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.10909375,"end":664.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.7709687500001,"end":665.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.5090937500001,"end":671.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.3859687500001,"end":678.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.67596875,"end":692.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.12096875,"end":695.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.68596875,"end":696.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.7153437500001,"end":698.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.5378437500001,"end":699.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.71909375,"end":700.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.3390937500001,"end":724.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.2078437499999,"end":704.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.6128437500001,"end":704.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.1928437500001,"end":719.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.8290937500001,"end":728.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.9465937500001,"end":738.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.4978437500001,"end":739.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.37096875,"end":747.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.40784375,"end":748.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.83784375,"end":751.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.9722187500001,"end":756.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.29659375,"end":757.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.43159375,"end":759.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.3003437500001,"end":762.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.07221875,"end":763.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.62471875,"end":769.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.2734687500001,"end":774.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.9309687500001,"end":777.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.4453437500001,"end":817.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":818.1984687500001,"end":825.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.3997187500001,"end":829.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.98159375,"end":851.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":851.72909375,"end":852.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":852.6909687500001,"end":855.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.6315937500001,"end":858.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.0065937500001,"end":859.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.79971875,"end":861.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.9172187500001,"end":867.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":864.1997187500001,"end":865.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":867.54096875,"end":871.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":871.32096875,"end":884.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.97284375,"end":902.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":902.4722187500001,"end":921.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":922.60409375,"end":926.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":926.7890937500001,"end":929.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":930.1303437500001,"end":931.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":932.0034687500001,"end":933.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":974.0053437500001,"end":978.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":979.3547187500001,"end":984.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":984.4509687500001,"end":985.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":990.86346875,"end":991.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":993.7490937500002,"end":994.4578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":995.9428437500001,"end":996.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":996.76971875,"end":997.5290937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.341,"end":33.403,"text":"謝謝主席韓院長。有請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。委員好。院長好。現在是11月,稱之為年底。"},{"start":34.563,"end":60.791,"text":"您終於可以來報告明年度的中央總預算謝謝也感謝我們立法院特別安排了備質詢讓我們可以在這個地方再一次的討論當然這一次備受爭議的禁法補償金的發放其實已經在這兩個月有非常多非常多的討論"},{"start":62.312,"end":80.747,"text":"可是因為我們今天要特別的來關心到底明年能不能夠如實發放所以我想快速的就是代院長來回顧一下這個立法的過程這個《進法補償條例》在4月17號排進了內政委員會"},{"start":86.889,"end":110.166,"text":"用一天的時間尋答逐條審查,審查完略。那我記得在我們的結論上還有後續的討論上大家不斷的提到是不是可以等520的新內閣團隊就職上任之後我們再來做協商"},{"start":111.152,"end":133.32,"text":"可是,我們超前部署。在5月2號的時候,委員會安排了協商。當時我們提案的委員們都有參加,但是各黨團並沒有判員。那一天的協商結論,召委也很辛苦,逐一的去各黨團找各黨邊要簽名。"},{"start":135.069,"end":161.981,"text":"那在隔天的時候呢出現了一個很聳動的圖卡上面寫著說民進黨團拒簽協商結論那這張圖卡呢引起非常大的討論跟誤會那麼我們看一下那張圖卡的場景它其實就是在這裡就是一張照片講了什麼不得而知"},{"start":163.811,"end":187.564,"text":"實際上,黨編如果沒有簽名,照理說應該要請院長主持協商,但是在5月14日的時候直接在院會二讀。因為還沒有協商,所以原本也沒有排這個案進來,但是在5月31日增列提案作為院會討論。"},{"start":189.551,"end":201.818,"text":"那麼6月4號看起來就要拼三讀了所以在那個時候就草草安排了一個協商然後下午就三讀通過了"},{"start":202.54,"end":218.577,"text":"我作為一個提案委員三讀通過我非常的高興可是我們可以看到在這個過程中確實是有很多的瑕疵舉個例子來講在6月4號黨團協商那一天我特別調出"},{"start":219.778,"end":233.353,"text":"科建民總召公報上的文字記錄他寫著說:「30年來我在這個地方所有的法案預算協商的程序一定是委員會審查完畢然後委員會協商"},{"start":235.035,"end":264.001,"text":"委員會協商各黨黨編都簽名的話直接送院會如果沒有簽名就交給院長主持協商所以院長的最主要功能在這個地方能夠調和鼎奈能夠把朝野議事爭議全部的來處理過去30年來我們在這個地方從來就是這樣的一個遊戲規則和流程所以我很可以理解卓院長您"},{"start":265.302,"end":283.5,"text":"我這些日子以來不斷不斷的聽到您就是一直講一句話立法院跟行政院就是要來互相的對話要坐下來要彼此尊重也要尊重我們行政院的行政權"},{"start":284.727,"end":298.942,"text":"我看起來這樣的一個互相沒有尊重其實是頻頻的發生所以呢我在前幾天有看到我們立法院的老院長王金平他也出來說話了"},{"start":300.464,"end":325.029,"text":"他整個話的內容其實就是告訴我們協商在立法院的重要性他的爭議就是要真誠對話找到共識因為我們很清楚知道真正的民主國家不是只有點人頭只有點人頭不是真民主還必須要有所謂的協商、溝通、共識"},{"start":326.26,"end":353.451,"text":"所以院長我爬梳這一段歷程我只是要交代我真的可以理解你這些日子不斷不斷講的那些話就是彼此尊重大家要坐下來談我不曉得說有哪些人來找過您談委員是其中之一是那還有誰當然還有很多委員朝野黨團的委員都有是"},{"start":354.599,"end":377.108,"text":"那我在這裡就是想要請教院長因為我很無奈啊為什麼我很無奈其實我是一個很溫和的人但是呢我有一個底線因為我認為作為人民選出來的民意代表就跟我們的行政機關父母官一樣其實人民是我們的主人"},{"start":378.035,"end":402.37,"text":"所以當我看到族人惶惶不安互相的謾罵對立的時候其實我會很焦急很難過所以您應該知道我面對這些很難解釋的問題我有時候急了我到處跟大家去做保證承諾請安心如果明年真的不是一公頃六萬如實發放"},{"start":403.931,"end":432.41,"text":"我就不再參選有的人會說哎呀怎麼不再參選馬上辭職可以我說我也可以馬上辭職我要表達的是因為我非常的相信我們中華民國政府怎麼會發不出錢呢我們要相信我們的政府相信我們的法律那如果一旦真的沒有辦法兌現說實在的那我這個立委其實也可以不用當了"},{"start":433.268,"end":442.402,"text":"我只是要表現表達我們要相信政府相信我們的法律所以對我來講這是一個假議題"},{"start":443.848,"end":471.189,"text":"很多都是錯假的訊息那我想要請教一下我們常常聽到的一個錯假資訊行政院堅持不甩立法只願意撥4萬但是呢我們可以看到這是總統公告的原住民保留地淨法補償條例上面寫得很清楚中華民國114年期每年每公頃新台幣6萬元院長沒有錯吧"},{"start":473.707,"end":490.829,"text":"總統公布的法律內容確實如此確實如此嘛齁那我想要來問一下齁因為還有很多關於預算編列不足這樣的錯假資訊那因為我們的預算法的主管機關是我們的主計總處解釋權在他們那邊所以我也請主計長"},{"start":504.332,"end":532.609,"text":"主計長好我們有一個錯假之訊也是漫天飛預算不足啦明年會領不到啦那我有跟原民會來去索資這張圖表是原保地進法補償他的一個各年度的預決算一覽表那請教一下主計長我看到的是公務預算重發基金的搭配編列"},{"start":533.834,"end":554.673,"text":"那有一些年度呢其實最後的決算其實重發基金的編列其實也花不完但是呢像112、111就算是最後他的決算重發基金的編列不足超支也照樣都領得到那請教一下主計長齁我這樣的解釋正確嗎"},{"start":558.707,"end":585.059,"text":"是,原則上在112年之前公務預算和基金預算是各辦負擔那在113年度是全部由國庫來撥補是,那即便是超支也會發得出來對不對?原則上我們會按政策來撥補基金那如果說明年一定發得出來對嗎?這個我們配合政策來協助是,那我再請教一下"},{"start":586.052,"end":596.96,"text":"那現在有說原住民綜合發展基金要破產喔主計長還有聽到說無法收回基金不可以拿來發說這個是違法的"},{"start":599.062,"end":622.121,"text":"所以我調了一下公文這個是105年主計總署發給原民會的公文上面載明你們建議原民會在發放的時候用公務預算跟基金各辦編列那當然你們也不會亂講話所以你們也有提到說這是依據原住民綜合發展基金的管用辦法"},{"start":623.422,"end":646.844,"text":"那這個東西載入可以做土地補償是在民國96年寫進來的以前沒有96年寫進來但是是105年開始發放還沒有發進法補償的時候基金就已經把用途載民可以做土地補償金發放好那這個呢我想"},{"start":647.805,"end":665.578,"text":"在民國96年當時的原民會的副主委呢是非常資深的立委我們的鄭天才委員也是非常資深的公務員我覺得這些我們都不容置疑那我們來看一下因為他只是辦法那我們來看一下"},{"start":666.739,"end":689.29,"text":"這些所謂的不可收回的項目我隨便念幾個像是原住民族地區溫泉資源開發經營利用規劃輔導及獎勵的支出促進原住民族部落文化發展的支出原住民族就業基金的支出等等等大概裡面屬於支出類的有4567891011好幾項"},{"start":693.152,"end":716.846,"text":"所以這些都是不可收回的項目所以不可以用基金去發嗎?主計長因為很多人都不懂一般基金是這個是作業基金他是有付出說可以收回但是他並沒有他是就整體來講並沒有針對個別的項目那我們一般進化補償的部分他是整體撥到基金去執行然後由國庫國庫來撥補"},{"start":719.227,"end":725.672,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov二、上午9時為國是論壇時間。．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov"},{"start":740.404,"end":759.15,"text":"提撥一定比例納入原住民族綜合發展基金作為回饋或補償經費。所以我說到這邊,主計長有沒有違法的問題?目前我們都是依照相關的法令來做啦。有沒有違法嗎?有或沒有嗎?"},{"start":760.356,"end":761.637,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov"},{"start":777.563,"end":802.802,"text":"反經付出仍可收回,而非與營業者為作業基金。所以這個部分不斷不斷的拿來討論但是我們剛才整個聽完了我想主計長你應該解釋的很清楚了也確認了這句話的一個概念我們來看一下因為反經付出仍可收回是在出"},{"start":803.362,"end":810.969,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov"},{"start":829.065,"end":831.306,"text":"對嗎?沒錯吧?以前的作業都是這樣"},{"start":854.877,"end":860.933,"text":"對嘛 就算是公務預算也是編到基金裡面 對嘛對 所以重發基金有破產的問題嗎"},{"start":863.181,"end":889.446,"text":"原則上如果有組不組的部分我們會來做協助好那最後我想要請教一下院長因為大家都會說行政院雙標4萬就不違憲了6萬就違憲了執政黨提案就不違憲了在野黨就違憲不好意思我就是有提案所以我想這個也是錯假資訊那我覺得院長您自始至終其實態度都很一致不論是報宅"},{"start":890.526,"end":905.449,"text":"或者是你今天的這個總預算報告書裡面都寫得很清楚就是憲法第70條我認為你在意的就是要恪守憲法的架構權力分立的原則行政權、立法權彼此的來尊重"},{"start":906.05,"end":932.677,"text":"所以我是特別要想說因為你已經有在報章有揭露就是徵詢行政院意見指明彌補資金來源然後呢你有說停止提案修正其他的方法我這樣子講有沒有違背你的意思謝謝委員的了解真的是如果能夠在憲法精神下在預算法跟財政紀律法的規定底下兩院建立一個互信的共識互相尊重"},{"start":990.876,"end":997.5,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．伍麗華Saidhai Tahov"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1302,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（15時35分）謝謝主席韓院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：伍委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：院長好。現在是11月，稱之為年底，您終於可以來報告明年度的中央總預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：也感謝我們立法院特別安排了備質詢，讓我們可以在這個地方再一次的討論。當然這一次備受爭議的禁伐補償金的發放，其實已經在這兩個月有非常多非常多的討論，可是因為我們今天要特別的來關心，到底明年能不能夠如實發放？所以我想快速的帶院長來回顧一下立法的過程。","禁伐補償條例在4月17號排進了內政委員會，用一天的時間詢答、逐條審查、審查完竣，我記得在我們的結論上還有後續的討論上，大家不斷的提到是不是可以等520的新內閣團隊就職上任之後，我們再來做協商？可是我們超前部署，在5月2號的時候，委員會安排了協商，當時我們提案的委員們都有參加，但是各黨團並沒有派員，那一天的協商結論，召委也很辛苦，逐一的去各黨團找各黨鞭要簽名。在隔天的時候，出現了一個很聳動的圖卡，上面寫著說：「民進黨團拒簽協商結論」，這張圖卡引起非常大的討論跟誤會，我們看一下那張圖卡的場景，它其實就是在這裡，就是一張照片，講了什麼不得而知。實際上黨鞭如果沒有簽名，照理說應該要請院長主持協商，但是在5月14號的時候，直接在院會二讀。因為還沒有協商，所以原本也沒有排這個案進來，但是在5月31號增列提案作為院會討論。6月4號看起來就要拼三讀了，所以在那個時候草草安排了一個協商，然後下午就三讀通過了。","我作為一個提案委員，三讀通過我非常的高興，可是我們可以看到，在這個過程中確實是有很多的瑕疵，舉個例子來講，在6月4號黨團協商那一天，我特別調出柯建銘總召在公報上的文字紀錄，它寫著說：「三十年來我在這個地方，所有法案、預算協商的程序，一定是委員會審查完畢，然後委員會協商，委員會協商各黨黨鞭都簽名的話，那就直接送院會；各黨鞭沒有簽名的話就交給院長主持協商。」所以院長的最主要功能在這個地方，能夠調和鼎鼐，能夠把朝野議事爭議全部來處理，過去三十年來，我們在這個地方從來就是這樣的一個遊戲規則和流程。","所以我很可以理解卓院長，我這些日子以來不斷不斷的聽到，您一直講一句話：「立法院跟行政院就是要來互相的對話，要坐下來，要彼此尊重，也要尊重我們行政院的行政權。」我看起來這樣的互相沒有尊重其實是頻頻的發生，所以我在前幾天有看到我們立法院的老院長──王金平，他也出來說話了，他談話的內容其實就是告訴我們協商在立法院的重要性，它的真意就是要真誠對話、找到共識，因為我們很清楚知道，真正的民主國家不是只有點人頭，只有點人頭不是真民主，還必須要有所謂的協商、溝通、共識。院長，我爬梳這一段歷程只是要交代，我真的可以理解你這些日子不斷不斷講的那些話，就是彼此尊重，大家要坐下來談，我不曉得還有哪些人找過您談？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員是其中之一。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，還有誰？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然還有很多委員，朝野黨團的委員都有。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，我想要請教院長，因為我很無奈啊，為什麼我很無奈？其實我是一個很溫和的人，但是我有一個底線，因為我認為作為人民選出來的民意代表，就跟我們的行政機關父母官一樣，人民是我們的主人，所以當我看到族人惶惶不安，互相的謾罵、對立的時候，我會很著急、很難過。所以你應該知道，我面對這些很難解釋的問題，我有時候急了到處跟大家去做保證承諾，請安心，如果明年真的不是1公頃6萬如實發放，我就不再參選。有的人會說：「哎呀！什麼不再參選？馬上辭職！」可以，我也可以馬上辭職。","我要表達的是，因為我非常的相信中華民國政府，政府怎麼會發不出錢呢？我們要相信我們的政府，相信我們的法律，一旦真的沒有辦法兌現，說實在的，我這個立委其實也可以不用當了。我只是要表現、表達我們要相信政府、相信我們的法律，所以對我來講這是一個假議題，很多都是錯假的訊息。我想要請教一下，我們常常聽到的一個錯假資訊「行政院堅持不甩立法，只願意撥4萬」，但是我們可以看到總統公告的原住民保留地禁伐補償條例，上面寫得很清楚，中華民國114年起每年每公頃新臺幣6萬元，院長，沒有錯吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：總統公布的法律內容確實如此。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：確實如此嘛！我想要問一下，因為還有很多關於預算編列不足這樣的錯假資訊，因為我們預算法的主管機關是主計總處，解釋權在他們那邊，所以我也請主計長。主計長好。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們有一個錯假資訊也是漫天飛，「預算不足，明年會領不到」，我有跟原民會索資，這張圖表是原保地禁伐補償各年度的預決算一覽表，請教一下主計長，我看到的是公務預算、綜發基金的搭配編列，其實有一些年度最後的決算綜發基金的編列也花不完。但是像112、111就算最後決算綜發基金編列不足、超支，也照樣都領得到。請教一下主計長，我這樣的解釋正確嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上在112年之前，公務預算和基金預算是各半負擔啦，在113年度是全部由國庫來撥補。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，即便是超支也會發得出來對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上我們會按政策來撥補基金。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：明年一定發得出來，對嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個我們配合政策來協助。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，我再請教一下主計長，現在有說原住民綜合發展基金要破產了。主計長，還有聽說無法收回，基金不可以拿來發，說這個是違法的。所以我調了一下公文，這個是105年主計總處發給原民會的公文，上面載明你們建議原民會在發放的時候用公務預算跟基金各半編列，當然你們不會亂講話，你們也有提到這是依據原住民綜合發展基金的管用辦法，這個東西載錄可以做土地補償，是在民國96年寫進來的，以前沒有，96年寫進來，但是在105年開始發放，還沒有發禁伐補償的時候，基金就已經把用途載明，可以做土地補償金發放。","在民國96年，當時原民會的副主委是非常資深的立委──鄭天財委員，他也是非常資深的公務員，我覺得這些都不容置疑。我們來看一下，因為它只是辦法，來看一下這些不可收回的項目，我隨便念幾個，像是「原住民族地區溫泉資源開發、經營、利用之規劃、輔導及獎勵支出」、「促進原住民族或部落文化發展支出」、「原住民族就業基金支出」等等，裡面屬於支出類的有四、五、六、七、八、九、十、十一好幾項，這些都是不可收回的項目，所以不可以用基金去發嗎？主計長，因為有很多人都不懂。"],["陳主計長淑姿：一般基金是……這個是作業基金，它是有付出可以收回，但它是就整體來講，並沒有針對個別的項目。一般禁伐補償是整體撥到基金去執行，然後由國庫來撥補，所以它整個在基金裡運作，是從很久以前就一直執行到現在。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，所以基金可以去發放這些。當然有人質疑那只是辦法，所以它的法源是在哪裡呢？原基法第二十一條裡面有寫「提撥一定比例納入原住民族綜合發展基金，作為回饋或補償經費。」我說到這邊，請問主計長，這有沒有違法的問題？"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前我們都是依照相關的法令來做。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：有沒有違法嘛？有或沒有嘛？"],["陳主計長淑姿：以這個定義是沒有違法。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：沒有違法，好。那為什麼有人一直說基金不可以發禁伐補償金？因為他援引到預算法，我們來看一下預算法第四條有提到特種基金，裡頭的第四個種類「凡經付出仍可收回，而非用於營業者，為作業基金。」這個部分不斷不斷的拿來討論，但是我們剛才整個聽完了，我想主計長應該解釋得很清楚了，也確認了這句話的概念。我們來看一下，因為「凡經付出仍可收回」是在出跟回之間；那原住民綜發基金的收支管用辦法的第四條有提到「本基金的來源由政府循預算程序之撥款。」它的意思是不是有付出、有收回，一直都會有錢，不夠就來編，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分如果有不足，我們就會撥補。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，所以它的法源也是在原基法的第二十一條「受限制所生之損失，應由該主管機關寬列預算補償之。」它是會一直撥補，而且所有的預算、公務預算就是必須被撥補到基金，由基金來發放對嗎？沒錯嘛。"],["陳主計長淑姿：以前的作業都是這樣。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對嘛，就算是公務預算也是編到基金裡面對吧？"],["陳主計長淑姿：撥到基金。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，所以綜發基金有破產的問題嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：原則上如果……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：除非政府倒了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：不足的部分，我們會來做協助。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，最後我想要請教一下院長，因為大家都會說行政院雙標，4萬就不違憲，6萬就違憲？執政黨提案就不違憲，在野黨就違憲？不好意思，我就是有提案，所以我想這個也是錯假資訊，我覺得院長您自始至終其實態度都很一致，不論是報載或者是你今天的總預算報告書裡面都寫得很清楚，就是憲法第七十條，我認為你在意的就是要恪守憲法的架構、權力分立的原則，行政權、立法權彼此來尊重，所以我是特別想說，因為你已經有在報章上揭露，就是徵詢行政院意見，指明彌補資金來源；然後你也說，同時提案修正其他法律。我這樣子講，有沒有違背你的意思？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的了解，真的！如果能夠在憲法精神下、在預算法跟財政紀律法的規定下，兩院建立一個互信的共識、互相尊重。今年我們會想盡辦法來解決，但光是用基金可不可行，我想大院的同仁就有不同的意見，那還需要進一步談，但是我們願意提出一個方式，讓它到最後是一個協商可能達成的方式。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：總之，就是不管基金、不管二備金、不管追加預算，如果大家坐下來談，明年就是依法發放1公頃6萬元，這樣對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：法律的原則要先確定，互相尊重的共識要形成。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：最後，雖然時間已經到了，我還是想在這個地方說明，禁伐補償，我們都很清楚，它不是福利，雖然程序有問題，沒有提覆議，也不打算釋憲。我相信這都是因為院長您尊重原住民族千百年來在土地、山林所受到的權利的剝奪，這個我們都能理解，所以在這個部分，我就是要讓族人再一次的了解，明年禁伐補償金發放，絕對沒有問題，對吧？好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們會努力。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第30號謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156511","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156511","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41eff76ca0bc59f69de3fd33acf0e4cf8b2cbfc2aa8e010504fc99ef46c3be2bc15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"15:18:41 - 15:34:42","影片長度":"00:16:01","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T15:18:41+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T15:34:42+08:00","duration":961,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.16346875,"end":16.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.68221875,"end":19.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.33596875,"end":21.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.78284375,"end":21.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.79971875,"end":22.407218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.407218750000002,"end":23.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.06534375,"end":23.082218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.37596875,"end":34.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.10159375,"end":35.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.35034375,"end":37.830968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.932218750000004,"end":42.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.572843750000004,"end":45.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.20096875,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.829093750000006,"end":56.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.18659375,"end":63.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.83534375000001,"end":67.83471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.27346875,"end":69.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.57284375,"end":74.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.70284375,"end":78.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.88784375,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.11284375000001,"end":99.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.64409375000001,"end":105.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.87096875,"end":106.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.59659375000001,"end":108.67221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.82409375,"end":110.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.33846875,"end":111.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.35096875,"end":112.89096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.34659375000001,"end":115.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.69221875000001,"end":116.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.64971875,"end":118.83096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.06721875000001,"end":120.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.04159375,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.79659375000001,"end":123.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.94409375000001,"end":126.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.72846875,"end":132.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.77909375,"end":127.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.87534375,"end":132.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.70221875000001,"end":133.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.02284375000002,"end":134.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":134.00159375,"end":134.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.13659375,"end":137.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.70596875,"end":135.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":135.72284375,"end":135.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.73971875,"end":136.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":136.17846875,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.15971875,"end":158.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":152.90159375000002,"end":153.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":155.61846875,"end":156.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":156.54659375,"end":168.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.30846875,"end":169.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.99596875,"end":171.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.20659375000002,"end":175.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.95284375,"end":177.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.74159375000002,"end":179.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.93534375000002,"end":180.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.09971875000002,"end":182.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.98971875,"end":184.00221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.55909375000002,"end":185.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.17909375000002,"end":187.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.35596875000002,"end":191.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.61284375000002,"end":191.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.62971875000002,"end":192.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.92909375000002,"end":194.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.27471875,"end":200.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.25284375,"end":200.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.21471875,"end":206.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.03659375,"end":210.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.13721875000002,"end":214.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.38971875000001,"end":223.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.38909375,"end":223.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.57409375,"end":223.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.87784375,"end":225.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.71721875,"end":225.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.22346875000002,"end":230.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.45096875000002,"end":229.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.22284375,"end":234.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.42534375000002,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.53034375000001,"end":233.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.12096875,"end":238.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.71096875,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.32221875000002,"end":244.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.26284375,"end":251.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.77221875,"end":254.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.26534375000003,"end":255.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.53096875,"end":257.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.21846875,"end":260.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.54721875,"end":272.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.14534375,"end":270.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.49471875,"end":273.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.96284375,"end":274.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.75596875,"end":276.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.79784375,"end":285.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.55596875000003,"end":294.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.56721875,"end":303.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.58721875000003,"end":306.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.27409375,"end":308.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":308.26971875000004,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.80096875000004,"end":321.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.13409375000003,"end":314.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.17534375,"end":329.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.56721875,"end":322.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":329.65034375000005,"end":331.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":332.40096875,"end":339.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.38284375,"end":363.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":360.51471875000004,"end":372.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.90096875,"end":384.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.67159375,"end":396.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.03284375000004,"end":393.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.02846875,"end":396.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.86346875000004,"end":399.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.24721875,"end":398.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.12034375,"end":403.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.25471875000005,"end":411.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.10159375,"end":414.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":414.43034375,"end":415.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.88159375000004,"end":418.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.59846875000005,"end":420.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.38284375,"end":428.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.36909375000005,"end":429.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.44471875000005,"end":433.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.08971875000003,"end":434.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.35971875,"end":434.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.84909375,"end":436.70534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.70534375000005,"end":436.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.75596875,"end":436.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.97534375000004,"end":439.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.06784375,"end":439.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.10159375,"end":439.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.42221875,"end":439.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.47284375000004,"end":441.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.47659375,"end":444.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.48034375000003,"end":446.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.88096875,"end":447.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.31971875000005,"end":449.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.08721875000003,"end":450.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.60159375,"end":455.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.27221875000004,"end":470.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.33534375000005,"end":456.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":467.89034375000006,"end":468.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.62409375000004,"end":472.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":472.96971875,"end":482.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.36909375000005,"end":500.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":499.68284375,"end":504.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":504.62721875000005,"end":515.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.85346875,"end":522.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.31221875,"end":525.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.80534375,"end":529.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.0747187500001,"end":532.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.7747187500001,"end":535.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.1497187500001,"end":538.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":538.84971875,"end":544.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.4865937500001,"end":541.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.2665937500001,"end":549.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.56534375,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":552.51846875,"end":554.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.3703437500001,"end":557.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.0872187500001,"end":560.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.68596875,"end":561.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.3272187499999,"end":565.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.00159375,"end":567.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.4990937499999,"end":574.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.9622187500001,"end":578.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.8940937500001,"end":586.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.65659375,"end":590.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.58846875,"end":592.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.11971875,"end":595.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.41471875,"end":602.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.7890937500001,"end":607.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.64909375,"end":612.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.3828437500001,"end":614.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.80409375,"end":648.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.99034375,"end":639.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.5034687500001,"end":657.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.1984687500001,"end":677.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.0009687500001,"end":678.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.35534375,"end":681.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.37221875,"end":679.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.18596875,"end":687.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.26534375,"end":694.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.1672187500001,"end":703.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.1909687500001,"end":708.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":709.00034375,"end":715.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.17221875,"end":716.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.8134687500001,"end":718.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":718.6865937500002,"end":720.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.13346875,"end":734.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.92471875,"end":734.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.22846875,"end":735.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.01284375,"end":750.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":749.0278437500001,"end":763.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.93471875,"end":751.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.03409375,"end":763.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":763.2365937500001,"end":763.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.2703437499999,"end":763.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.9115937500001,"end":764.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.10971875,"end":770.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":770.4422187499999,"end":770.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.1003437500001,"end":771.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.1340937500001,"end":771.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.8090937500001,"end":771.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.8259687500001,"end":773.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":774.42471875,"end":777.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.68159375,"end":782.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":782.87909375,"end":785.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":786.79409375,"end":790.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":790.60784375,"end":791.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.68784375,"end":793.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":794.38784375,"end":795.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.91909375,"end":797.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.21846875,"end":800.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":801.6609687500002,"end":803.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.72846875,"end":804.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.66471875,"end":808.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":805.32284375,"end":805.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":806.1328437500001,"end":810.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":811.70159375,"end":814.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":814.7390937500002,"end":833.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":827.15909375,"end":828.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":830.0447187500001,"end":831.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":832.5590937500001,"end":834.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":835.5122187500001,"end":842.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":836.3728437500001,"end":837.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":839.93346875,"end":844.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":844.70909375,"end":849.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":844.7934687500001,"end":845.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":849.40034375,"end":852.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":852.2522187500001,"end":853.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":853.5009687500001,"end":854.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.86784375,"end":857.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":857.92221875,"end":858.7322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":858.8334687500001,"end":859.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":859.9640937500001,"end":862.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.5459687500002,"end":868.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":867.11909375,"end":873.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":874.25721875,"end":874.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":874.27409375,"end":874.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":874.3584687500002,"end":874.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":874.7803437500002,"end":875.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":876.24846875,"end":879.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":880.5178437500001,"end":880.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":880.83846875,"end":882.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.4922187500001,"end":882.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.54284375,"end":884.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.71159375,"end":883.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":886.06971875,"end":886.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.0990937500001,"end":888.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.3772187500001,"end":889.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.6259687500001,"end":893.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":892.3303437500001,"end":892.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.3172187500002,"end":897.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":897.6459687500001,"end":897.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":897.6797187500001,"end":899.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":898.2703437500002,"end":899.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":901.08846875,"end":904.5984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":901.15596875,"end":901.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":901.24034375,"end":901.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":905.07096875,"end":906.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":906.9778437500001,"end":911.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":912.05721875,"end":912.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":912.09096875,"end":913.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":913.93034375,"end":913.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.5547187500001,"end":915.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":916.4109687500002,"end":917.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":918.16596875,"end":919.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.9209687500002,"end":923.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.22846875,"end":924.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.7978437500001,"end":930.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":930.9909687500001,"end":933.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":933.5390937500001,"end":945.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.43596875,"end":950.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":945.6384687500001,"end":945.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":947.27534375,"end":948.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":950.8022187500001,"end":951.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":951.5447187500001,"end":953.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":953.2153437500001,"end":954.0590937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":17.892,"end":18.553,"text":"請卓院長備詢"},{"start":33.393,"end":55.592,"text":"邱委員好主委員長好首先我在這邊先感謝院長在3個月25號特別撥控到苗栗視察那非常感謝我們院長對於苗栗的這個關心那麼在這邊我有一個問題想請教我們的院長根據2022年到訪苗栗南莊的人次大概是8萬9千多人"},{"start":57.253,"end":74.114,"text":"那到今年2024年1月到10月已經超過32萬人次來過南莊可見南莊的人文景觀山水非常的吸引人那觀光持續在發展當中其中也帶動餐飲業跟我們的旅宿業"},{"start":75.074,"end":96.182,"text":"現在南莊面臨一個問題就是污水的部分沒有辦法處理我記得當天院長到苗栗的時候我們現場有跟我們的院長陳情其實這個部分這個南莊污水下水道這個建制在110年其實在109年就已經同意了那110年1月已經送案審查到現在那一直"},{"start":97.022,"end":97.583,"text":"請問院長還有我們內政部可以幫忙嗎?"},{"start":118.375,"end":133.677,"text":"報告委員我的了解是原規劃污水處理廠的用地有一些爭議那現在已經重新的有修正計畫了我講最近幾天好像他有送到內政部裡面來所以院長是同意協助的嘛"},{"start":134.398,"end":155.383,"text":"國度署現在正在看這個事情,部長應該跟國度署這邊。我跟邱委員報告一下,那個苗栗縣政府已經在11月1號,也就是前兩天呢,重新提送,就是原來是污水量的計算有問題,因為我們是重新再做一個南莊的污水下水道。對啦,你們計算的方式是,它的人口數嘛。對。那其實它遊客是非常多的啦。"},{"start":156.263,"end":181.47,"text":"我希望把這點也考量進去我們已經送到國土署我們在國土署審查完以後我們會按照優先順序跟財務的可行性就來提供這方面的經費上面的需求謝謝部長 謝謝院長我再請教院長美國總統大選現在已經倒數計時我們上次台灣押寶好像押錯了這一次我們比較謹慎一點"},{"start":183.238,"end":187.562,"text":"我請問一下,我們院長有沒有做好兩方面不管誰當選,我們台灣應該因應的措施?"},{"start":192.136,"end":214.008,"text":"謝謝委員這個提醒我們一直都有在注意雖然我們認為臺美關係長期的發展應該是健康永續的發展但是兩黨或是兩位候選人在選舉之中所提出的不同的講法我們還是密切的注意我們相信未來在經過這個民選總統產生之後政權交接之後還是會進行"},{"start":215.435,"end":220.876,"text":"你個人有沒有比較希望誰當選?我們自己的選舉都不需要別人來對我們評斷,我們也不應該在這裡,但是我相信這是一個民主選擇的選舉。"},{"start":239.32,"end":257.348,"text":"我記得川普有講過一句話我們台灣是晶片小偷針對這小偷說我們院長好像在我們議場這邊有講過就是說不同意我想請問院長我們有沒有向美方提出抗議或者是澄清"},{"start":258.237,"end":258.637,"text":"那我們請部長您說明一下"},{"start":274.924,"end":300.73,"text":"是跟委員報告不過有關於這個晶片我想台美是互補的合作的關係那個各種專家還有媒體都已經說明事實上我們台灣是製造方面但是事實上在設計還有整個晶片的產業是美國還是產值是最大的所以他們的專家還有媒體也都出來說明"},{"start":302.793,"end":305.759,"text":"如果川普當選,我們台灣有沒有準備好要繳保護費?"},{"start":307.361,"end":331.45,"text":"最好的保護費有沒有準備要交我們本來就是自我防衛我們本來就是應該要提升我們自我防衛這個就是一個趨勢所以過去8年來的國防預算也幾乎不一樣未來也會持續這個不太一樣啦所以我講的保護費是無條件的就是請他來保護我們買武器歸買武器提升我們的武力裝備那是一件事"},{"start":332.438,"end":354.972,"text":"那我覺得我們是有準備,如果川普當選,我們是已經準備好要要付美國的保護費嗎?保護費這是一種說法,但我想美國是基於台灣關係法六項保證,他是要依法來確保就是美台關係,那也確保這個台海的和平跟穩定。我覺得不管誰當總統,這個還是要"},{"start":357.774,"end":358.215,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":373.532,"end":399.186,"text":"當然這是分析師講的也還沒發生我希望政府應該現在就要你妥應應的對策然後選後呢好積極的向美國提出我們都有密切的注意而且妥善的因應的方案不過我也跟委員澄清一下沒有什麼上次選舉說押寶說我們其實在這個大家都知道啦那個是誤傳我也利用這個機會澄清一下我再請教院長"},{"start":400.206,"end":428.953,"text":"那我今年預估稅率將超徵2000億那連續四年大幅的超徵另外稅數方面明年中央政府總預算比去年成長約兩成結果客家委員會的預算不增反減那今年已經比去年少了10%明年預算還是短少了0.7那還要因應物價通膨及公職人員的調薪實際減幅更大感覺我們政府對我們客家鄉親不是很重視"},{"start":431.526,"end":449.334,"text":"政府對所有族群、所有人民在福利制度照顧上面,以及整個...那為什麼會減少?你部長減少的原因是什麼?金額是增加的啊。金額沒有增加。這個金額是有一點增加吧。113年度啊。他調回去也比去年少啊。也比去年少啊。"},{"start":452.662,"end":459.526,"text":"主席,主委說明一下。主委,您說說看。有,有,有。我企圖這個合格表現的說法,就要從嚴重說。第一,當然一味難,但是我企圖這個合格表現的立法委員會的創傷,我一聽到行政院就爭氣了。我希望說,這個合格表現,就叫做做過這個合格表現。"},{"start":473.195,"end":481.906,"text":"報告委員,明年我們預算有比今年度及11年嚴重,行政院有部分年度及11年,也要增加的部分。"},{"start":489.716,"end":503.587,"text":"不要有大小言,之前主委給的經費比較多一點,不要說我們股主委來了,不能給預算比較少,這樣去當派做事情嗎?好不好?有想法,跟委員報告有想法,114年度應該的前瞻預算有夠多,多經驗的預算就有夠大一點,所以明年有再變過來,變實。"},{"start":514.915,"end":538.611,"text":"好不好 院長你持續關注這個問題好不好在以後在編列預算的時候能夠多照顧我們客家鄉親一點主委剛剛說之前是一個前瞻預算那我們以後會想用均衡台灣的方式我現在心中最想說的一件事就台灣還有幾個縣是財政能力不好的我們如何讓他能夠強化財政力提高他的競爭力這個才是政府該做的事"},{"start":538.931,"end":564.651,"text":"所以苗栗你要特別照顧阿好不好因為苗栗是非常缺錢的好謝謝我們主委那我在想齁在講齁總預算我們有三個爭議的議題啦齁我實話說我在報告裡找不到答案除了禁法補償齁您上週在答詢說有條件的狀況下可以增加預算或用第二預備金那健保點值主決議是要0.95嘛齁那你們說把總額提高了"},{"start":568.716,"end":570.299,"text":"公糧收購調漲5元,農業部卻說要一級二轉3加3我看來是拒絕編列的意思"},{"start":578.919,"end":607.057,"text":"不是,我們在健保點值方面我們認為現在整個加起來增加了712億那我們努力的讓他健保點值合理化的方向去前進這個是始終不變的目標那麼農業部我也期待他在一級二轉三加三這個政策之外在明年度我期待農業部提出一個新措施新作為能夠更有效直接的讓農民感受到這個我會要求農業部"},{"start":607.777,"end":608.337,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":628.131,"end":628.431,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．邱鎮軍"},{"start":648.879,"end":674.876,"text":"講話的餘地才能要求他們把更好的品質的這個公糧能夠繳到我們這個農糧我們有兩種方式一個是公糧它有特定的對象那它維持現在26塊另外我們也鼓勵其他的70%往民糧這個品牌的稻米品種去品牌去走讓它能夠優質化那這兩個要同時併戰但是明年我是希望我們有一套新的作為啦更清楚的跟農民做對話實質幫助農民"},{"start":678.998,"end":703.364,"text":"院長您的背後是賴清德總統我們立法院背後是人民你們沒有編列依法編列預算而且最近聽到的媒體地方也好還情緒勒索我們地方的首長但你不要忘了這些提案的這些我們國民黨提案的這些案子民進黨都有份他不是說以前沒有提過所以"},{"start":704.224,"end":715.7,"text":"民進黨可以打理民進黨但是我們不能背叛人民所以我希望我們這個院長應該很清楚我們法律案跟預算案的差別"},{"start":716.909,"end":734.688,"text":"那行政院必須要通過依照通過的法律編列預算你也很清楚憲法第70條講的是你們提出的預算案立法院不能要求增加這是沒有錯但是這是我們立法院通過的一些法案我希望行政院能夠遵守好不好所以預算法71條說"},{"start":737.042,"end":757.973,"text":"立法院對的法律案在增加稅數的時候要徵詢行政院也要指出預算彌補資金之來源那這個我們希望以後都踐行這樣的程序互相尊重憲法的權利我希望你講過的就是嚴守紀律惡例不可循不可開不可開所以我希望你們也不要在我們這個部分來掀開惡例好不好"},{"start":763.916,"end":792.994,"text":"我們互相尊重好的例子來建立起來就讓大家往這個方向這個原則跟法律的規定走那接下來我再請問一下日前我們的總統賴清德主持賴清德總統主持全社會防衛任性委員會的首場會議要擴充40萬可持名利那內政部也證實未來大規模震災時要將黑熊學院那邊"},{"start":794.5,"end":803.885,"text":"這是有沒有這一回事?全社會防衛任性需要省個社會力的參與。那為什麼是黑熊學院?你們是要給這個黑熊學院"},{"start":811.681,"end":834.394,"text":"有公務預算用這個名義給他們嗎?報告委員,我想這個都是謠言。到目前為止我們的可視名利的這個不管是預算也好,或者是教育訓練的規模,都是由我們的警校、疫警、疫消以及相關的替代役的這個訓練課程。所以黑熊學院有嗎?觀點所說的都是一種謠言。因為沒有了解這些民間團體由他們自己推翻的款。現在沒有,以後會不會有?"},{"start":835.604,"end":859.126,"text":"目前也沒有,這個是屬於志願工作的組織,那為了我們有相當多的工作。對,我要講的就是這樣子,很多民間團體他其實都是義務職。我也不希望說我們政府利用這個民意去把公務預算編到這個地方來。完全沒有?因為有需要公務預算的這個民間團體太多了,到時候你會補不完。"},{"start":860.2,"end":888.052,"text":"像我們的救難協會等等,他們每次平時在救災救難都是跑第一線的,他們也沒有公務預算,只有一些裝備。這些我們都非常感謝,我們希望他們用志工的精神來協助有關救災的工作。好,請部長回去。那我接下來請一下,請問一下我們央行的楊總裁。那房價越打越高,共同盤。中央銀行總裁被選,中央總裁到了嗎?沒有。"},{"start":890.723,"end":911.209,"text":"中央銀行總裁有參加嗎?時間暫停。您是要問中央銀行總裁嗎?不然就問我好了,問院長好了。我請問院長,房價越打越高,帶動通膨,那免水深火熱。我請問,央行打草房已經打了4年了,為什麼沒有效果?"},{"start":912.236,"end":929.952,"text":"最近央房的這幾批措施出來之後第7波措施出來之後我想社會有感受到它有實質的效應那我們認為在觀察一段時間那現在已經就這些貸款的額度跟乘數比數都有在逐漸下降的趨勢我們可以請"},{"start":931.013,"end":933.375,"text":"把詳細的資料再提供給委員做參考"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1199,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（15時18分）謝謝院長，有請我們的卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：卓院長好。首先我在這邊先感謝院長在上個月25號特別撥空到苗栗視察，非常感謝院長對於苗栗的關心。","在這邊我有一個問題想請教院長，2022年到訪苗栗南庄的人次大概是八萬九千多人，今年（2024年）1月到10月已經超過32萬人次來過南庄，可見南庄的人文景觀、山水非常的吸引人，觀光持續在發展當中，其中也帶動餐飲業跟旅宿業。但現在南庄面臨一個問題，就是污水的部分沒有辦法處理，我記得當天院長到苗栗的時候，我們縣長有跟院長陳情，其實南庄污水下水道的建置在110年……其實在109年就已經同意了，110年1月已經送案審查到現在，一直得不到前期規劃的經費。工程費本來是1.8億，現在已經提高到三億多了，我想在財劃法還沒有修正之前，苗栗確實沒有錢，請問院長還有內政部可以幫忙嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我的了解是原規劃污水處理廠的用地有一些爭議，現在已經重新提送修正計畫了，最近幾天好像有送到內政部裡面來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以院長是同意協助了嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：國土署現在正在看這件事情，部長應該更清楚……"],["劉部長世芳：我跟邱委員報告一下，苗栗縣政府已經在11月1號，也就是前兩天重新提送，原來是污水量的計算有問題，因為我們是重新再做一個南庄的污水下水道……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦！你們計算的方式是以它的人口數嘛？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：其實它的遊客是非常多的，所以我希望把這個也考量進去……"],["劉部長世芳：是，已經重新提送，我們已經送到國土署，我們在國土署審查完以後，會按照優先順序跟財務的可行性來提供這方面經費的需求。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝部長、謝謝院長。我再請教院長，美國總統大選現在已經倒數計時，我們上次臺灣押寶好像押錯了，這一次我們比較謹慎一點，我請問一下，院長有沒有做好兩方面不管誰當選，我們臺灣應有的因應措施？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒，我們一直都有在注意，雖然我們認為臺美關係長期的發展應該是健康、永續的發展，但是兩黨或是兩位候選人在選舉之中所提出不同的講法，我們還是密切的注意，我們相信未來在經過民選總統產生、政權交接之後，還是會進行正規管道當中，我們雙方之間既有的一些交涉，我們會強化保障我們自己跟美國之間的權益。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長，你個人有沒有比較希望誰當選？"],["卓院長榮泰：什麼？"],["邱委員鎮軍：你希望誰當選？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們自己的選舉都不需要別人來對我們評斷……"],["邱委員鎮軍：不能講，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也不應該在這裡評斷別人，但是我相信這是一個民主的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我這樣講，其實不管是誰當選，我們不能期待美國永遠會挺臺灣，就是無條件的挺臺灣。我記得川普有講過一句話，他說我們臺灣是晶片小偷，針對這個小偷說，院長好像在議場這邊有講過，說不同意啦！我想請問院長，我們有沒有向美方提出抗議或者是澄清？"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛說過，在選舉之中，候選人說出的話，我們會密切注意，但是我們重要看的是在政權穩定之後，雙方面之間長期的發展跟交涉……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為你如果不講的話，就是我方默認嘛……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個外交部應該有更好的掌握。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們請部長說明一下。"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，有關於這個晶片，我想臺美是互補的合作關係，各種專家還有媒體都已經說明，事實上我們臺灣是製造方面，但是事實上在設計還有整個晶片的產業，美國的產值還是最大的，所以他們的專家還有媒體也都出來說明，持續的溝通……"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果川普當選，我們臺灣有沒有準備好要繳保護費？"],["林部長佳龍：最好的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：保護費？有沒有準備要繳？"],["林部長佳龍：我們本來就是自我防衛……"],["邱委員鎮軍：本來就有在繳？"],["林部長佳龍：我們本來就應該要提升我們的自我防衛，這就是一個趨勢，所以過去八年來的國防預算也幾乎倍增，未來也會持續……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個不太一樣啦！我講的保護費是無條件的請他來保護我們，買武器歸買武器，提升我們的武力裝備那是一件事，我們是不是有準備，如果川普當選，我們是已經準備好要付美國保護費嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：保護費這是一種說法，但我想美國是基於臺灣關係法6項保證，它是要依法來確保美臺關係，也確保臺海的和平跟穩定，我覺得不管誰當總統，這個還是要依法來行政，最重要是美國是跨黨派……"],["邱委員鎮軍：萬一是川普當選，還有分析師講到我們可能造成台積電還有臺股跟臺幣三殺的慘況，當然這是分析師講的，也還沒發生，我希望政府應該現在就要擬妥因應的對策，然後選後積極地向美國提出溝通、說明，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：我們都有密切注意，而且有妥善的因應方案。不過我也跟委員澄清一下，沒有什麼上次選舉的押寶說，我們其實在……"],["邱委員鎮軍：大家都知道啦！好啦，部長，時間不多，謝謝部長。"],["林部長佳龍：那個是誤傳，我也利用這個機會澄清一下。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我再請教院長，今年預估歲入將超徵2,000億，連續4年大幅的超徵。另外，歲出方面，明年中央政府總預算比去年成長約兩成，結果客家委員會的預算不增反減，今年已經比去年少了10%，明年預算還是短少了0.7%，還要因應物價、通膨及公職人員的調薪，實際減幅更大，感覺政府對我們客家鄉親不是很重視。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，政府對所有族群、所有人民在福利制度、照顧上面以及……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那為什麼會減少？部長，減少的原因是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：金額是增加的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：金額沒有增加。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個金額是有一點增加吧？"],["邱委員鎮軍：113年度也比去年少。"],["卓院長榮泰：我請主委說明一下。"],["邱委員鎮軍：主委，你說說看，你要替我們客家鄉親來跟院長說，我知道你當然很為難，但是我站在客家立法委員的立場上，我一定要向行政院爭取，我希望客家委員會能夠多照顧我們的客家鄉親。"],["古主任委員秀妃：報告委員，明年我們的預算有比今年多加四億多，行政院有多給我們四億多，這是增加的部分，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是比起前年還是比較少，我不知道是不是你主委做得比較小，還是上一任主委比較大，所以院長，不要有大小眼……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["邱委員鎮軍：之前主委給的經費比較多一點，不要我們古主委來了，你給他的預算就比較少，這樣他很難做事情，好不好？"],["古主任委員秀妃：有增加啦！跟委員報告，有增加，112年度應該是因為前瞻預算所以有比較多，到今年的預算就有比較低一點，所以明年有再編列過來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長，你持續關注這個問題，好不好？以後在編列預算的時候，能夠多照顧我們客家鄉親一點。"],["卓院長榮泰：主委剛剛說之前是因為前瞻預算，那我們以後會想這種均衡臺灣的方式，我現在心中最想做的一件事，就是臺灣還有幾個縣市是財政能力不好的，我們如何讓它能夠強化財政力、提高它的競爭力，這個才是政府該做的事。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以苗栗你要特別照顧啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我說的就是這件事。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為苗栗是非常缺錢的，謝謝主委。","我再講，總預算我們有三個爭議的議題，我實話說，我在報告裡找不到答案，除了禁伐補償，您上週答詢時說，在有條件的狀況下，可以增加預算或用第二預備金；健保點值的主決議是要1點0.95元，你們說把總額提高了；但公糧收購調漲5元，農業部卻說要「1集、2轉、3加3」，我看來看去，所以是拒絕編列的意思喔？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，在健保點值方面，我們認為現在整個加起來增加了712億，我們努力讓健保點值往合理化的方向前進，這個是始終不變的目標。而農業部，我也期待它在「1集、2轉、3加3」的政策之外，明年度提出一個新措施、新作為，能夠更有效、直接的讓農民感受到，這個我會要求農業部整合現在所有的機制，把它整合成一套比較完整的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你的公糧才調5塊錢，我講真的，你可能要多去了解一下，農民現在繳上來的稻米其實是非常劣質的，為什麼？因為價格不好，搞到後面這些收購來的農糧就變成在飼料區賣，這樣你知道嗎？所以反而是一斤十幾塊就賣掉了……"],["卓院長榮泰：公糧有特定的對象。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以我的意思是，你一定要給農民一個合理的徵收價錢，我們才有講話的餘地，才能要求他們把更好品質的公糧繳到農糧署這邊。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有兩種方式，一個是公糧有特定的對象，它現在維持26塊；另外，我們也鼓勵其他70%的稻米往民糧品牌去走，讓它能夠優質化，這兩個要同時並在，但是明年我是希望我們有一套新的作為，能更清楚的跟農民做對話，實質幫助農民，保障他們的權益。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦，院長，您的背後是賴清德總統，我們立法院背後是人民，你們沒有依法編列預算，而且最近聽到的媒體也好，地方也好，還情緒勒索我們地方的首長，但你不要忘了，我們國民黨提案的這些案子，民進黨都有份，不是說以前沒有提過，民進黨可以打臉民進黨，但是我們不能背叛人民。","院長應該知道、也很清楚法律案跟預算案的差別，行政院必須要依照通過的法律編列預算，你也很清楚憲法第七十條講的是，你們提出的預算案，立法院不能要求增加，這沒有錯，但是我們立法院通過的這一些法案，我希望行政院能夠遵守，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以預算法第九十一條說，立法院的法律案在增加歲出的時候要徵詢行政院，也要指出預算彌補資金之來源，我們希望以後都踐行這樣的程序，互相尊重憲法上的權力，那就沒有問題了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，院長，你講過要嚴守紀律，惡例不可開，所以我希望你們也不要在我們談的這個部分，先開這個惡例，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們互相尊重，把好的例子建立起來，大家往這個方向、這個原則跟法律的規定走。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，接下來我再請問一下，日前我們的賴清德總統主持全社會防衛韌性委員會的首場會議，要擴充40萬可恃民力，內政部也證實未來大規模震災時，要將黑熊學院納編，有沒有這一回事？"],["卓院長榮泰：全社會防衛韌性需要整個社會力的參與，有準備的團體……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那為什麼是黑熊學院？"],["卓院長榮泰：有準備的團體，未來都是可能合作的對象。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們是變相要給黑熊學院有公務預算，用這個名義給他們嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想這個都是謠言，到目前為止，我們的可恃民力，不管是預算也好，或者是教育訓練的規模，都是由我們的警消、義警、義消，以及相關替代役的這個訓練課程……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以黑熊學院有嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：外面所說的都是謠言，因為就我們的了解……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以是謠言就對了？沒有這件事？"],["劉部長世芳：這些民間團體是由他們自己對外募款。"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在沒有，以後會不會有？"],["劉部長世芳：目前也沒有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：以後呢？"],["劉部長世芳：因為這個是屬於自願工作的組織，未來我們有相當多的工作……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，我要講的就是這樣子，很多民間團體其實都是義務職，我不希望我們政府利用這個名義去把公務預算編到這個地方來。"],["劉部長世芳：完全沒有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為有需要公務預算的民間團體太多了，到時候你會補不完，像我們的救難協會等等，他們平時在救災、救難都是跑第一線的，他們也沒有公務預算，只有一些裝備。"],["劉部長世芳：這些我們都非常感謝，我們希望他們用志工的精神來協助有關救災的工作。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，請部長回去。我接下來要請問一下央行的楊總裁，房價越打越高，帶動通膨……"],["主席：麻煩請中央銀行總裁備詢，央行總裁到了嗎？沒有。","中央銀行總裁有參加嗎？"],["邱委員鎮軍：沒有到嗎？"],["主席：時間暫停，您是要問中央銀行總裁嗎？"],["邱委員鎮軍：對。"],["主席：央行總裁……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，不然我問院長好了。我請問院長，房價越打越高，帶動通膨，人民水深火熱，我請問，央行打炒房已經打了4年了，為什麼沒有效果？"],["卓院長榮泰：最近央行的這幾批措施出來之後，及第七波措施出來之後，我想社會有感受到實質的效益，我們認為要再觀察一段時間，現在這些貸款的額度、成數跟筆數都已經有逐漸下降的趨勢，我們可以把詳細的資料再提供給委員參考。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，因為我看到建構臺灣房價風險值量化評估模型的學術研究，它裡面提到一個，就是長期的貨幣寬鬆是導致我們房價打不下來的一個原因，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：房價有很多的因素，內內外外的因素很多。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是它報告裡面的，所以很多委員說打房無效，就是你一手……"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們再把資料送給委員參考，謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員質詢，謝謝卓院長備詢。","報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是來自新北林口高中的老師及同學，熱烈歡迎！","接下來我們請登記29號伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156510","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156510","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41ae41d9e38e148a71e3fd33acf0e4cf8b2cbfc2aa8e010504444a855be115db145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"15:02:59 - 15:18:30","影片長度":"00:15:31","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T15:02:59+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T15:18:30+08:00","duration":931,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.180968750000002,"end":13.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.244093750000001,"end":14.340968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.543468750000002,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.07346875,"end":25.191593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.191593750000003,"end":25.360343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.360343750000002,"end":25.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.69784375,"end":34.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.962218750000005,"end":40.986593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.52659375,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.04471875,"end":52.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.03534375,"end":56.14034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.579093750000006,"end":57.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.60846875,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.455968750000004,"end":62.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.502218750000004,"end":66.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.31159375,"end":69.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.33221875000001,"end":74.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.41159375000001,"end":78.14534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.58409375000001,"end":80.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.52034375000001,"end":87.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.20284375,"end":113.73471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.32534375,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.41346875,"end":124.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.12534375000001,"end":125.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.40784375000001,"end":131.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.31409375,"end":135.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.27971875,"end":139.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.14409375,"end":141.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.01721875,"end":153.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.79596875000001,"end":167.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.51534375,"end":173.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.89409375000002,"end":174.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.26096875000002,"end":180.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.96471875,"end":183.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.54659375,"end":184.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.59284375000001,"end":185.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.60971875,"end":185.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.90909375,"end":190.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.68471875,"end":194.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.10596875000002,"end":198.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.03784375,"end":202.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.24846875,"end":221.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.02596875,"end":221.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.19471875000002,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.07221875000002,"end":222.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.87784375,"end":225.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.03784375,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.40471875,"end":234.62721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.45471875,"end":233.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.08284375000002,"end":235.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.21346875,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.12846875000002,"end":241.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.35596875000002,"end":242.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.23346875000001,"end":245.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.29221875000002,"end":247.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.50284375,"end":249.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.78971875000002,"end":247.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.82346875000002,"end":247.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.64596875,"end":251.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.35034375,"end":251.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.56971875000002,"end":251.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.60346875000002,"end":253.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.90284375000002,"end":254.38784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.89846875,"end":254.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.40471875000003,"end":254.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.74221875,"end":261.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.96471875000003,"end":273.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.90784375000004,"end":276.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.47721875,"end":285.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.39971875000003,"end":289.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.06159375000004,"end":296.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.49096875000004,"end":301.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.45221875000004,"end":306.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.17284375,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.58159375,"end":311.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.63596875,"end":314.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.12096875000003,"end":318.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.03596875,"end":319.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.08659375,"end":319.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.30596875000003,"end":335.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.82659375000003,"end":335.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.11346875000004,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.61846875000003,"end":356.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":357.47721875,"end":358.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":359.24909375000004,"end":370.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.96034375000005,"end":371.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.92221875,"end":378.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.84096875,"end":399.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.42846875000004,"end":403.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.29284375000003,"end":410.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.84846875000005,"end":420.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.77534375000005,"end":422.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.72846875000005,"end":437.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.01346875,"end":436.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.49409375000005,"end":450.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.75409375000004,"end":453.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.73221875,"end":475.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.97346875000005,"end":481.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.03659375,"end":477.55971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.55909375000005,"end":482.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.55471875,"end":483.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.85409375,"end":487.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.12409375000004,"end":484.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.68471875000006,"end":487.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.70159375000003,"end":488.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.00534375,"end":497.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.28721875,"end":493.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.30409375000005,"end":493.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.42221875,"end":493.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.96221875000003,"end":494.01284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.08846875,"end":496.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.96159375,"end":506.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":506.77034375000005,"end":536.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.51721875,"end":533.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.53409375,"end":533.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.66909375,"end":533.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.2678437500001,"end":538.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.3897187499999,"end":541.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":541.8703437500001,"end":547.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.70909375,"end":550.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.4934687500001,"end":565.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":565.59659375,"end":573.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.03409375,"end":574.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":575.2153437500001,"end":577.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":578.42159375,"end":578.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.1640937500001,"end":580.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.7165937500001,"end":585.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.8803437500001,"end":589.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.5422187500001,"end":592.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.56284375,"end":593.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":594.30096875,"end":597.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":598.09784375,"end":599.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":600.2409687500001,"end":600.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":601.15221875,"end":601.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":602.3503437500001,"end":613.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":613.5890937500001,"end":615.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.96846875,"end":622.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.27971875,"end":623.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.22034375,"end":625.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.9922187500001,"end":626.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":627.2578437500001,"end":629.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.5990937500001,"end":634.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":635.18909375,"end":637.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":637.88909375,"end":640.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":640.3190937500001,"end":645.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.92159375,"end":645.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.73159375,"end":647.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.87909375,"end":649.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.5790937500001,"end":652.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.3003437500001,"end":655.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.0972187500001,"end":661.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":660.67034375,"end":668.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.4665937500001,"end":674.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":675.01409375,"end":734.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.7278437500001,"end":698.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.03159375,"end":698.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.3997187500001,"end":718.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.43346875,"end":718.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.3953437499999,"end":719.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":735.20721875,"end":738.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":738.9197187500001,"end":740.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":741.4678437500002,"end":745.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":745.60221875,"end":748.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.97721875,"end":750.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":751.0022187500001,"end":752.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":752.9934687500001,"end":754.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.90034375,"end":756.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":756.9422187499999,"end":763.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":764.3334687500001,"end":765.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":767.23596875,"end":768.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":770.17221875,"end":772.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":773.9353437500001,"end":775.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":775.69034375,"end":778.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.08221875,"end":780.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.05659375,"end":783.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":783.82409375,"end":786.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":786.82784375,"end":789.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":790.59096875,"end":792.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.2153437500001,"end":792.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":792.8859687500001,"end":793.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":795.0459687500002,"end":795.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":796.05846875,"end":815.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":816.3759687500001,"end":816.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":817.2534687500001,"end":822.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":823.53096875,"end":824.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":825.5559687500001,"end":830.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":830.83784375,"end":831.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":831.8672187500001,"end":834.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.57971875,"end":841.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":842.02596875,"end":851.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":851.30721875,"end":875.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":876.8390937500001,"end":879.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.01159375,"end":880.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.44596875,"end":883.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":883.84221875,"end":884.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":885.68159375,"end":890.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":886.0022187500001,"end":886.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.5078437500001,"end":904.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":904.04159375,"end":904.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":904.6828437500001,"end":904.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":904.76721875,"end":908.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":908.9184687500001,"end":918.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":918.7397187500001,"end":919.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":919.81971875,"end":929.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":931.2609687500001,"end":931.9697187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.202,"end":16.164,"text":"院長好 許院長麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢郭委員好卓院長好 卓院長您上來以來我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院主改的問題包括體育部的這個升格問題我覺得除了體育部的升格問題之外我認為財經部門其實也要面臨升格的問題"},{"start":41.77,"end":69.324,"text":"過往大概20年之間財經部門並沒有精心加入主改的行列我舉金管會為例子好了在2004年到今年為止20年間它金融業的發展速度非常之快總共在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆可是這個部會當中的預算經常性的預算也不過是16億之多而這16億之多的部分是調薪而來"},{"start":70.39,"end":78.944,"text":"第一個,他的金融業的快速發展第二個,我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由呢因為很多詐騙、金流還有這個類金融"},{"start":81.57,"end":110.692,"text":"所有幾乎都要靠金管會如果交給其他部會都做的2266包括第三方支付第三方支付的這種業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的只是差別金額不同而已一個是20以上 一個是20以下可是交給這個數位部就執行了實在是非常令人失望常常會有400多億的洗錢案件的事情發生到現在為止還是無法管理第二個類似像金融管理公司"},{"start":111.132,"end":138.585,"text":"金融管理公司現在誰在管經濟部在管我問過幾次次長一問三不知所以說任由這些金融類金融機構這些融資公司就變成詐騙金流還有包括洗錢還有包括高利貸這些都是社會問題的來源這社會問題的來源我們要去面對第二個除了這個問題之外第三個你去看看金管會的業務"},{"start":140.402,"end":152.775,"text":"實在越來越多除了其實金融科技之外還有包括這個P2P的部分先買後付虛擬資產這個部分還有包括存網的部分一堆"},{"start":154.054,"end":172.835,"text":"還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好金融科技發展路徑也好經發會所對外的業務當中多數都是跟經管會有所相關所以我想說在院長你回答之前我先問一下經管會主委的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":174.065,"end":178.549,"text":"有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?有沒有需要申求?"},{"start":199.225,"end":199.245,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":223.939,"end":241.42,"text":"主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的夜館範圍增加了,他的人力不足未來怎麼解決,昨天晚上520之前我們徵詢主委來,他有一句話我到現在牢牢記住,他說金融監督管理委員會"},{"start":242.681,"end":266.639,"text":"監理不能鬆發展不能放這兩條路線必須要做得好我們才會有有效的管理我們才會有實質的發展未來我們朝向這個方向發展要有錢有人啊這個主管的業務一旦擴增那應該有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情擴編不是為了擴編的擴編擴編是要解決社會問題的擴編也因此為什麼請院長啊"},{"start":267.579,"end":284.955,"text":"來做一個行政院層級的一個規劃報告來評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性,院長這個建議我們會很慎重的來考量慎重考量再給本席一個答覆好不好另外一個跟金融相關的那個跟外交部也有相關那個外交部長林佳龍林部長麻煩"},{"start":286.428,"end":286.488,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":315.468,"end":335.621,"text":"我們據理力爭因為我們是有雙方的協議當然我們也要做各種因應確保我們的住管人員的安全跟領悟的順利進行目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨還有各界包括美國等等"},{"start":336.181,"end":358.258,"text":"部長辛苦除了聲援外債的身份之外我們手頭上有的東西是什麼可以操作在我們什麼東西本席跟你直接建議第一個金融商業金融商業的投資南非幣計價基金投資型的保單還有存款我們跟南非幣相關估計起來就有4216億啊這就金融外交啊"},{"start":359.292,"end":377.749,"text":"你的整個綜合外交當中有商業外交有體育外交就是獨缺金融外交就是很可惜這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具不是嗎我們可能是除了南非國家以外擁有南非比最多的台灣是最多的國家"},{"start":378.851,"end":379.791,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":407.824,"end":408.224,"text":"各位部長,你們看法怎麼樣?"},{"start":423.809,"end":425.23,"text":"主委你掌管金融業"},{"start":453.929,"end":457.39,"text":"我跟委員也說明一下確實因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱"},{"start":482.594,"end":496.443,"text":"那受制於人那我們當然這個風險對我們來講我們政府也要示警那基本上外交是基於對等那其他就是我們的政策工具有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理"},{"start":498.264,"end":526.508,"text":"部長我跟你說明就是說我們基本上所有的這個受險的部分高達七成有二十幾兆在海外他其實也不太關心負險的問題一來我們要關心負險二來我們又可以建立外交這是最好的方式啊所以我意思是說你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入這個受險業的基金也可以把受險的部分金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分這不是兩邊都可以來一起處理嗎"},{"start":527.228,"end":527.468,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":550.583,"end":577.731,"text":"主委剛剛好幾個同仁在講說我們如果前瞻計畫沒了那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算就回到公間預算公間預算要排啊遙遙無期啊對不對而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算也不太確定要靠什麼靠這些嘛所以這個開發模式要有所不同"},{"start":579.229,"end":593.184,"text":"那個院長我跟你說我感慨很深六都當中就唯獨台南沒有捷運六都當中5期的整個啊前瞻計畫跟台南的關聯性其實沒有什麼關聯"},{"start":594.394,"end":611.67,"text":"我們不過拿到一億多的一個規劃費用而已真正的建設費用五期都沒有所以就六度當中臺南的捷運要如何後發先至之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的那個部長陳士凱陳部長"},{"start":613.632,"end":629.505,"text":"我覺得有兩個方式要處理第一個你要透過聯合開發的方式要怎麼快的速度那個主委在這邊我會給院長建議有幾個方式第一個 弓箭的這個P要處理第二個弓箭的RIS要處理"},{"start":630.486,"end":631.006,"text":"我們現在會把如何促進民生參與"},{"start":650.766,"end":667.466,"text":"讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的一個重要指標那這個也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式你有錯不要提到一般的預算的思考否則這樣排下去遙遙無期你知道嗎依照目前的時程規劃"},{"start":669.047,"end":696.877,"text":"臺南最快最快也要7年之後才會看到這個結運這是樂觀的預估更何況他第二期西北地區的部分我要請部長陳士凱部長應該優先規劃為什麼因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下你要再等到三年後那就像如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的結運放在第二期同樣的思考"},{"start":696.937,"end":697.518,"text":"同步規劃考慮到南科因素的特別狀況"},{"start":715.574,"end":717.515,"text":"最近台南市政府"},{"start":741.536,"end":765.59,"text":"在台南車站的部分有提出一個4億元的這個經費台南車站啊我每次都看到台南車站啊非常的痛心啊古蹟啊破壞台鐵亂搞一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在本來2022年要弄好到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好那是政府之詞啊國家丟臉啊"},{"start":770.676,"end":796.458,"text":"這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫出來要弄一個新的計畫可是這個計畫當中也引起很多地方不同的意見我現在這邊我想要跟陳部長說我也要跟郭部長、經濟部長提一下還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下在這個台南車站當中前方有一個叫做"},{"start":797.119,"end":797.819,"text":"沒有道理嘛!"},{"start":825.595,"end":850.66,"text":"那個地方應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方把它移除最近啊臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400臺南400目前我知道沒有留下什麼可是臺南300在日治時期他留下一個什麼留下一個臺南市歷史博物館在現在的民生利雲中西區公所的那個地方後來因為美軍空炸沒了"},{"start":851.46,"end":852.96,"text":"地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府"},{"start":881.639,"end":883.159,"text":"三百到四百,四百中央文化部給了多少錢?"},{"start":908.933,"end":928.931,"text":"有多少沒有留下任何東西啊我們在以前台灣博物館的時候留下228公園啊台南300的時候留下歷史博物館啊台南400到底留下什麼我們不清楚所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候我麻煩陳士凱部長還有郭部長還有李部長好好思考一下把一個綜合規劃的可能性把它創造出來謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1150,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（15時3分）院長好。院長，麻煩請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["郭委員國文：卓院長好。卓院長，你上任以來，我相信將來還是會面臨整個行政院組改的問題，包括體育部的升格問題，除了體育部的升格問題之外，我認為財金部門其實也要面臨升格的問題。過往大概二十年之間財金部門並沒有加入組改行列，我舉金管會為例子好了，2004年到今年為止二十年間，金融業的發展速度非常之快，在整個管理金額上已經高達126兆，可是這個部會的經常性預算也不過16億之多，這16億之多有一部分是調薪而來的。第一個理由是金融業的快速發展。我跟部長說明一下升格的第二個理由，因為很多詐騙金流以及類金融所有幾乎都要靠金管會，如果交給其他部會都做得離離落落，包括第三方支付，第三方支付的業務型態其實跟電子支付是一樣的，只是金額不同的差別而已，一個是20億以上、一個是20億以下，可是卻交給數位部執行了，實在是非常令人失望，常常會有四百多億洗錢案件的事情發生，到現在為止還是無法管理。","第二個類似像金融管理公司，金融管理公司現在誰在管？經濟部在管，我問過幾次次長，一問三不知，所以任由類金融機構的這些融資公司就變成詐騙、金流，還有包括洗錢、高利貸，這些都是社會問題的來源，我們要去面對這些社會問題的來源，這是第二個。除了這個問題之外，第三個，你去看看金管會的業務，實在越來越多，除了金融科技之外，還包括P2P、先買後付、虛擬資產、純網銀等一堆，還有包括最近行政院所通過的亞洲資產管理中心也好、金融科技發展路徑也好，在經發會對外的業務當中，多數都是跟金管會有所相關。所以我想在院長回答之前，我先問一下金管會主委的看法是怎麼樣？有沒有需要升格？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員的關心，確實誠如委員說明的，金管會今年成立20年……"],["郭委員國文：有沒有需要升格？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然就以我們未來服務的量能來看，確實剛才委員提到，不管是未來有關融資公司的管理，還有像虛擬資產的管理，這個都是未來非常沉重的監理負擔。"],["郭委員國文：對！主委，是沉重的業務，不只是你們業務沉重，重點是你可以阻絕一些社會問題的發生，包括詐騙、包括洗錢、包括高利貸，這些令人痛心的社會事件都是從這些類金融事件產生而來。院長，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。主委應該記得昨天晚上我們還在討論他的業管範圍增加了，他的人力不足，未來怎麼解決的問題，昨天晚上還在講。"],["郭委員國文：昨天晚上才在講？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：520之前，我們徵詢主委來，有一句話我到現在牢牢記住，他說金融監督管理委員會監理不能鬆、發展不能放，這兩條路線必須要做得好，我們才能有效地管理，我們才會有實質的發展，未來我們朝向這個方向來想……"],["郭委員國文：發展要有錢、有人啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：他主管的業務一旦擴增，應該要有充足的能力跟人力去做這個事情。"],["郭委員國文：對，擴編不是為了擴編而擴編，是要解決社會問題而擴編，也因此我能不能請院長來做一個行政院層級的規劃報告，以評估金管會升格為金融部的可能性，院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會很慎重地來考量這個建議，因為……"],["郭委員國文：再給本席一個答復，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：另外一個跟金融相關的，跟外交部也有相關，麻煩請外交部長林佳龍部長。林佳龍部長上任以來提出了榮邦計畫，林佳龍部長上任以來提出一個綜合外交，我覺得這兩件都非常有遠見，但是最近發生了兩件事情，可能要考驗一下外交部長，第一個事情是到底在南非的部分，我們的駐外單位會不會被迫撤出南非首都，目前的近況不知道如何？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，我們據理力爭，因為我們是有雙方的協議，當然我們也要做各種因應，確保我們駐館人員的安全跟領務的順利進行。目前各種聲援的聲音也都出來，包括南非執政聯盟裡面的政黨，還有各界，包括美國等等。"],["郭委員國文：部長辛苦！除了外在的聲援之外，我們手頭上有的東西是什麼？可以操之在我們的是什麼東西？本席跟你直接建議，第一個是金融商業的投資、南非幣計價的基金、投資型保單及存款，我們跟南非幣相關的估計起來就有4,216億，這就是金融外交。你的整個綜合外交當中，有商業外交、有體育外交，獨缺金融外交，就是很可惜，這時候我們的金融實力就可以成為一個反制的工具，不是嗎？臺灣可能是除了南非國家以外，擁有最多南非幣的國家，這不處理，你放在那邊，還要靠別人，那不是很可惜？這一點我提醒一下部長。","第二個，我再就教於部長的部分，你知道在參加CPTPP的12個國家當中，有一個國家對外公開大剌剌地講他支持中國加入CPTPP，這個國家就叫智利。可是我稍微估計一下五大壽險公司，單純就智利的國債跟公司債，我們在那邊就有1,861億4,998萬元之多，這個不也是一個好的利器，可以協助我們在整個經濟安全保障落實的情況底下，做為一個好的金融外交方式嗎？主委、部長，你們看法怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告一下，確實在過去，特別是我們壽險業的資金在尋求全世界這些投資工具的時候，在很多國家、地區都有很多的投資，我想過去我們大概純粹是以投資的角度去思考這個問題，並沒有從這個來考慮，委員有提到這個東西，如果未來有這樣的可能性，我們再跟外交部來討論。"],["郭委員國文：主委，你掌管金融業，部長掌管外交方針，兩個能不能combine一下，納入所謂綜合外交的概念當中，發揮我們的金融實力？我們的金融實力是不可小覷，市值是高達全世界第十名，所以我建議部長好好思考一下，把綜合外交的部分以及金融外交納入，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員也說明一下，確實，因為像南非跟智利都陷入債務陷阱，受制於人，當然這個風險對我們來講，我們政府也要示警，基本上外交是基於對等，其他就是我們的政策工具……"],["郭委員國文：我同意。"],["林部長佳龍：當然有一些部分是要在這個原則上來處理。"],["郭委員國文：部長，我跟你說明的就是我們基本上所有壽險資金的部分高達七成、有二十幾兆在海外，它其實也不太關心暴險的問題，一來我們要關心暴險，二來我們又可以建立外交，這是最好的方式啊！所以我的意思是說，你把榮邦計畫的部分也可以納入壽險業的基金，也可以把壽險的部分、金融業的部分納入你的綜合外交的部分，這不是兩邊都可以一起來處理嗎？跨部會處理，不要部會本位思考嘛，我就是做這樣的建議而已，好不好？林部長，請回。"],["林部長佳龍：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：另外，壽險基金的部分其實一直強調是要投入公建，可是要投入公建的部分，我們看到有兆元投入公建，這個兆元壽險基金拿回來投入公建有什麼好處呢？院長、主委，剛剛好幾個同仁在講說，我們如果前瞻計畫沒了，那最重要的軌道運輸基礎建設沒有預算，就回到公建預算，公建預算要排是遙遙無期啊！對不對？而且我們也沒有辦法確定將來是不是還會有一個前瞻的預算，這個也不太確定，那要靠什麼？靠這些嘛。所以這個開發模式要有所不同，院長，我跟你說，我感慨很深，六都當中就唯獨臺南沒有捷運，六都當中5期的整個前瞻計畫跟臺南其實沒有什麼關聯，我們不過拿到一億多的規劃費用而已，真正的建設費用，5期都沒有，所以就六都當中，臺南的捷運要如何後發先至？之前我在交通委員會的時候就質詢過我們的陳世凱部長，我覺得有兩個方式來處理，第一個，你要透過聯合開發的方式，要怎麼樣加快速度，主委在這邊，我也給院長建議，有幾個方式，第一個，公建的PE要處理；第二個，公建的REITs要處理；第三個，政府的永續，再來加速資金到位要處理，如果用這三種方式結合，這個聯合開發的模式才有可能把臺南的捷運變後發能夠先至，院長，我期待您的回復。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在會把如何促進民生參與，讓它成為一個未來幫助政府做重大開發建設的重要指標，這也是在未來我們沒有特別預算的情況底下可以思考的一個方式。"],["郭委員國文：沒有錯，不要停留在一般的預算思考，否則這樣排下去遙遙無期。你知道嗎？依照目前的時程規劃，臺南最快、最快也要七年之後才會看到捷運，這是樂觀的預估，更何況第二期溪北地區的部分，我要請陳世凱部長應該優先規劃，為什麼？因為現在南科的效應已經外溢到北邊，南科的效應外溢到北邊的情況底下，你要再等到三年後，那就如同當年臺南市政府把深綠線的捷運放在第二期，同樣的思考、一樣的道理嘛，後來我要求在第一期，現在就可以發現整個南科的發展跟高鐵的發展已經完全不同，因此因為現在南科的效應，也請部長慎重思考一下，能不能不要等到三年之後再啟動溪北的路網規劃？應該同步規劃，考慮到南科因素的特別狀況。"],["陳部長世凱：可以，這個我們跟地方政府、跟臺南市政府一起來溝通，看可不可以把後面這個拉到前面去。"],["郭委員國文：一來，前面有所規劃的路網能夠透過後發先至、其他開發手段取代預算的方式來資金到位，趕快讓整個捷運能夠興建；二來，計畫的部分能夠提早進行，有沒有可能？"],["陳部長世凱：好！可以，我們來努力。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝部長。部長，你先等一下，我還有一個問題要請教你，最近臺南市政府針對臺南車站部分有提出一個4億元的經費，我每次看到臺南車站都非常的痛心！古蹟破壞、臺鐵亂搞！一堆合法的米蟲從2017年弄到現在，本來2022年要弄好，到現在還完全沒有辦法弄好！那是政府之恥、國家丟臉！","這個車站最近又弄出一個新的計畫，可是這個計畫也引起很多地方不同的意見，我在這邊想要跟陳部長說，我也要跟經濟部郭部長提一下，還有包括文化部的李部長也請上來一下。"],["主席：麻煩請文化部長備詢。"],["郭委員國文：在這個臺南車站前方有一個叫做經濟部標準局臺南分局，占地600坪，總共建坪1,700坪的所在地，經濟部標準局臺南分局設在那邊有數十年之久，經濟部標準局的臺南分局是如此的冷衙門，竟去占到那個黃金地段！郭董，你是做生意的，你會不會在黃金地段放這個冷衙門在那邊？沒有道理嘛！應該透過地方政府的協議把那個地方移除。","最近臺南建立一個所謂的臺南400，目前我知道沒有留下什麼，可是臺南300是日治時期，那時候留下一個什麼？留下一個臺南市歷史博物館，在現在的民生綠園、中西區公所那個地方，後來因為美軍空炸，沒了，經過一百年之後的臺南400，還是沒有所謂的臺南城市博物館，只是空有其名而無其實！這種情況底下，應該把這個標準局移開，在車站、臺南的門面建立臺南400當中一座嶄新的臺南市歷史博物館，甚至是願景館、甚至是探索館。我想請問院長的看法怎麼樣？三個部會在這邊，請你回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：地方的重大發展我想還是要跟地方政府、地方的意見來做整合。"],["郭委員國文：經濟部呢？標準局是經濟部的、火車站是交通部的！"],["卓院長榮泰：你要轉換成一個地方的大建設，還是跟地方來發……"],["郭委員國文：歷史館是文化部的業務啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：產權、所有權可能是中央政府的，但是如何發展，這個地方還是要聽聽地方的意見，但是今天委員提出的意見是一個好的方向，我們就可以用這個方向來做一些思考跟討論。"],["郭委員國文：對啊，因為300的時候……現在到了400，針對400，中央文化部給了多少錢？沒有留下任何東西啊！以前臺灣博物館的時候留下228公園、臺南300的時候留下歷史博物館，臺南400到底留下什麼？不清楚！所以趁現在這個改建計畫的時候，我麻煩陳世凱部長還有郭部長、李部長好好思考一下，把一個綜合規劃的可能性創造出來，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭國文委員的質詢、謝謝卓院長及各部會首長的備詢。","接下來請登記第28號邱鎮軍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156509","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156509","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d418a3cf52da461b8d2e3fd33acf0e4cf8b2cbfc2aa8e010504f8672e411591f1865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"14:46:56 - 15:02:45","影片長度":"00:15:49","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T14:46:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T15:02:45+08:00","duration":949,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.31909375,"end":22.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.79534375,"end":24.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.56596875,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.03846875,"end":33.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.814718750000004,"end":40.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.61534375,"end":49.947218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.65596875,"end":56.072843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.05159375,"end":58.35096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.26221875,"end":60.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.66284375,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.81034375,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.81846875,"end":64.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.89846875,"end":67.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.03721875000001,"end":74.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.46221875,"end":78.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.57971875,"end":79.64721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.22096875000001,"end":81.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.58784375,"end":83.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.15284375,"end":85.50284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.75596875000001,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.02159375000001,"end":89.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.80596875,"end":91.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.93221875,"end":99.18846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.54284375,"end":109.95471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.51159375,"end":113.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.07221875,"end":115.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.24909375,"end":118.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.86471875000001,"end":124.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.41659375,"end":136.80284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.24159375000002,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.10971875,"end":151.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.44596875000002,"end":155.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.37784375,"end":184.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.13284375,"end":185.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.97659375,"end":196.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.70909375000002,"end":198.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.92846875,"end":198.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.17721875,"end":200.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.33721875,"end":201.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.09659375,"end":204.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.23159375,"end":205.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.45034375,"end":209.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.65221875,"end":214.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.44034375,"end":222.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.28721875000002,"end":227.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.61971875,"end":229.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.71659375000002,"end":237.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.32721875000001,"end":239.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.21284375000002,"end":246.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.79034375,"end":244.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.49034375000002,"end":253.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.01659375000003,"end":256.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.15534375000004,"end":258.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.45034375,"end":261.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.74534375,"end":270.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.05221875,"end":269.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.60471875,"end":273.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.45659375,"end":278.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.43096875000003,"end":276.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.40096875,"end":278.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.77221875000004,"end":279.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.46409375,"end":284.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.57721875000004,"end":287.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.47971875,"end":297.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.14471875000004,"end":321.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.78659375,"end":322.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.86659375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.00471875,"end":334.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.08409375,"end":339.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.06221875,"end":347.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.95971875000004,"end":357.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.15221875000003,"end":368.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.44596875,"end":370.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.12909375000004,"end":372.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.59284375000004,"end":375.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.37721875,"end":377.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.25034375,"end":379.85346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.17409375,"end":383.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.07221875000005,"end":387.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.58221875000004,"end":387.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.75096875,"end":388.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.84784375000004,"end":390.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.86471875,"end":396.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.98159375,"end":397.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.06596875,"end":401.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.13346875,"end":397.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.16284375000004,"end":399.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.86721875,"end":400.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.26784375000005,"end":409.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.11034375,"end":431.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.22971875,"end":429.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.86221875,"end":442.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.88159375000004,"end":446.79659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.96534375000005,"end":452.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.80409375000005,"end":464.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.67596875000004,"end":478.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.55284375,"end":468.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.01096875,"end":481.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.41971875,"end":496.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.21909375,"end":501.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.79221875,"end":502.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.34471875,"end":513.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.3472187500001,"end":516.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.4015937500001,"end":529.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.44784375,"end":520.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.2703437499999,"end":521.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.8515937500001,"end":532.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.23034375,"end":534.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.93471875,"end":541.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.8959687500001,"end":540.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.38096875,"end":545.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.32534375,"end":547.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.9622187500001,"end":549.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.1940937500001,"end":554.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.49284375,"end":555.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.1297187499999,"end":557.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.3234687500001,"end":562.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.8797187499999,"end":565.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.46159375,"end":568.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.07284375,"end":575.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.7890937500001,"end":580.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.17221875,"end":586.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.6228437500001,"end":589.0022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.81221875,"end":591.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.3940937500001,"end":592.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.03534375,"end":594.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.4990937499999,"end":600.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.9665937500001,"end":610.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.0747187500001,"end":618.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.85409375,"end":621.0647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.57096875,"end":622.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.3640937499999,"end":625.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.04284375,"end":626.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.0047187499999,"end":632.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.09659375,"end":633.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.65346875,"end":634.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.1553437499999,"end":640.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.28096875,"end":641.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.12471875,"end":653.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.29159375,"end":668.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.2934687500001,"end":681.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.78096875,"end":687.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.7547187499999,"end":698.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.3015937499999,"end":698.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.5209687500001,"end":701.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.60096875,"end":707.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.4265937499999,"end":712.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.3372187500001,"end":724.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.4028437500001,"end":729.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.43596875,"end":745.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.15909375,"end":752.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.06096875,"end":755.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.9297187500001,"end":764.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.4853437500001,"end":776.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.5134687500001,"end":783.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.57096875,"end":791.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.5703437500001,"end":789.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.60346875,"end":797.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.49284375,"end":811.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.43159375,"end":817.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.6922187500002,"end":820.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.38784375,"end":822.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.07534375,"end":827.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":829.15034375,"end":834.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":829.3190937500001,"end":829.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.63534375,"end":831.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.2634687500001,"end":840.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.33409375,"end":841.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.9922187500001,"end":843.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.47721875,"end":847.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.1897187500001,"end":849.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.2990937500001,"end":860.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":860.31846875,"end":882.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.3403437500001,"end":887.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.1284687500001,"end":889.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.9172187500001,"end":892.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.8872187500001,"end":895.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.33409375,"end":896.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.9709687500001,"end":899.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.99159375,"end":903.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":902.4384687500001,"end":904.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.2565937500001,"end":924.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":924.4265937500002,"end":927.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":927.9365937500002,"end":935.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":935.46284375,"end":937.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":949.35096875,"end":949.9753437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":20.712,"end":20.992,"text":"徐委員好"},{"start":34.051,"end":59.425,"text":"主委院長好本席今天有五個面向想要來向您提出質詢首先第一個就是我們今天審查的是114年度的總預算以及前瞻基礎建設的特別預算那我們發現呢我們的所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻為什麼這樣講呢因為這個不前瞻"},{"start":63.925,"end":85.074,"text":"就是首先先談基礎建設很多基礎建設院長覺得只有蓋個管設蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎我沒有要請您回答我請您思考那有很多在所謂的前瞻其實呢我們在"},{"start":87.082,"end":108.374,"text":"前瞻這個預算書裡面看到很多科技相關的我們不一定是硬體其實有很多的軟體我們的軟實力真的要打基礎我們應該要朝這個方向所以我們看到預算書裡面特別有關我們這個產業的部分大概把焦點放在半導體的製造技術"},{"start":110.535,"end":132.685,"text":"可是跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差所以國際對我們台灣科技產業界對台灣的印象就是硬體很強可是軟體不行所以我們既然是前瞻基礎建設我們就應該要利用我們台灣硬體製造的產業優勢把我們的弱項就是這個軟體的產業能夠拉上來"},{"start":137.327,"end":155.817,"text":"本席強烈的建議目前熱門的像人工智慧機器的訓練模型還有各種AI應用的開發以及國外現在積極在佈局的量子計算領域等等這些領域其實不是這一兩年才出現的"},{"start":156.457,"end":156.557,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":186.129,"end":214.689,"text":"委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變所以2017年的第一期開始他真的就叫基礎建設所以他到現在第5期成效他沒有打基礎啊有些這些軌道這些水工程水工程、軌道這些都是基礎建設那接著這個特別預算不特別啊這些特別預算其實過去也引起很多的質疑"},{"start":215.981,"end":218.562,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":240.23,"end":240.85,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":259.465,"end":261.047,"text":"我們希望能夠尊重整個的培政紀律還有我們預算的體制"},{"start":280.206,"end":295.776,"text":"第二點本席想要就我們國營事業績效不章特別提出來我們明年度的政府財政收入非常的漂亮114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%"},{"start":298.938,"end":318.91,"text":"這個是因為現在我們國際局勢的情況變好以及全民的努力累積出來的結果這個非常值得高興但是呢本期要特別提出來在整個的總預算裡面我們的國營企業收入還有財產收入這兩類呢都比前一年分別減少了10.8%還有5.9%"},{"start":321.872,"end":347.373,"text":"所以院長這個數字就表示呢人民來當老闆會賺錢但是政府當老闆就虧錢這個問題呢我們特別看到這個國營事業去年台電就虧損了1992億最為嚴重而虧損的前五名裡面呢經濟部就佔了三個台電、中油還有台水"},{"start":348.055,"end":375.236,"text":"所以我們大家也都覺得臺電、中油、臺水不能倒不能倒所以本席希望呢院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政的團隊大家一起充電加油多喝水能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈這個目標院長您有把這個設定為目標嗎我們也一直希望把國營事業"},{"start":376.434,"end":377.334,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":397.12,"end":401.885,"text":"本席接著講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。那這個錯誤的政策過去在能源配比還有總諮詢本席提過了。"},{"start":410.188,"end":427.598,"text":"我們用非常昂貴的再生能源我們買的比人家產生的還要便宜我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高當然我們都知道這已經簽約了簽約20年但是"},{"start":431.9,"end":452.252,"text":"我們應該可以從其他方面還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤那最特別的就是我們有比較接近的能源也比較便宜的之前院長有說可以考慮那現在你們對未來有沒有考慮比較接近的能源而且是比較低廉的價格的"},{"start":452.947,"end":453.968,"text":"國營企業另一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案。112年宣判的中油"},{"start":482.452,"end":502.169,"text":"中油煉製事業部的採購弊案。113年破獲的臺電的大林電廠採購弊案。近期的臺鹽綠能公司弊案。還有臺電的綠能弊案等等。不生沒舉。所以民進黨執政讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐劃上等號。但是"},{"start":503.41,"end":516.661,"text":"在總統上任後可不可以還有卓院長你們到底有沒有想給人民一個耳目一新的感覺有沒有想要扭轉這一個印象台言綠能的問題我們非常的痛心"},{"start":517.418,"end":519.659,"text":"徐欣瑩徐縣長請你救我的問題回來因為我時間有限徐欣瑩徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長徐縣長"},{"start":546.6,"end":550.327,"text":"對整個團隊有沒有喊話大家的操守問題這方面"},{"start":558.37,"end":562.934,"text":"第三點本席要特別提到我們的教育的經費請院長看一下台灣在1990年代我們每年的教育經費佔GDP的比率都超過6%"},{"start":581.232,"end":582.132,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":595.543,"end":616.934,"text":"但是到了蔡政府整個教育經費佔GDP的比就剩4點多那我們又特別的也看到我們明年度明年度我們稍微預測GDP當然我們只能預測2023年就今年我們教育經費只佔了整個GDP的比率是4.26%那我們預測明年後年"},{"start":621.476,"end":623.578,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":641.345,"end":642.646,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":669.346,"end":669.887,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．徐欣瑩"},{"start":681.989,"end":707.557,"text":"我們必須非常重視教育但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅的成長所以比例上減少了百分之零點多但是就數字上、金額上是增加很多的比如我們113年我們的教育金會編的有7700億那114年我們會到達8300億我們特別看了如果整個成長世界各國都一起成長所以我們還有一張表就是"},{"start":708.456,"end":708.696,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":725.427,"end":754.493,"text":"而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠那邊也喊不夠所以是不是可以就整體來說為了我們的孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子更何況我們現在不窮我們稅收首次突破3兆1500億所以我們的教育經費本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命請問院長我們可不可以增加1%"},{"start":756.304,"end":782.513,"text":"增加的幅度會有多少我想應該要衡量未來整個需要那現在我們不僅在對0到6歲乃至於高職大學我們都有更多的新的機制之外我們也對整個學校老舊教室甚至廁所的改建我們都編了幾百億的預算這些我們知道都在那個4點多趴裡面但是還是很不足所以我們希望能夠再增加一趴"},{"start":783.033,"end":783.934,"text":"再來本席想要就這個移轉性的支付,院長你應該了解"},{"start":804.073,"end":826.163,"text":"整個移轉性的支付它的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義所以移轉性的支付越高越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重那我們看到我們這個預算裡面我們移轉性的支付逐年上漲院長您知道這個情況嗎"},{"start":829.158,"end":852.119,"text":"一轉性的支付。對。我們逐年上漲。從105年的5000多億到現在7000多億。明年的預算是7600多億。那再來其中最主要、最大比例的就是社福支出。那社福支出它就表示"},{"start":852.699,"end":873.613,"text":"你社福支出持續上升表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義那這也表示我們社會的有一些問題依然嚴重例如貧富的差距例如很多的這個弱勢團體所以還有高齡化這個老齡化高齡化的來臨"},{"start":874.634,"end":886.58,"text":"所以這些問題我們需要的是解決方案所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿我不知道我們的行政院團隊我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題然後如何來解決"},{"start":889.923,"end":890.383,"text":"委員長本席的時間有限"},{"start":905.333,"end":933.912,"text":"本席在這裡提供一個想法美國有勞動所得稅務的優惠對於特定對象像我們台灣如果一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的他如果是全職的工作者可不可以讓他能夠低於能夠進行一種補貼跟退稅然後讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後這個補貼在逐漸下降也就是你要激勵他"},{"start":935.213,"end":935.574,"text":"主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1102,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（14時47分）謝謝主席，本席請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：卓院長好，本席今天有五個面向要向您提出質詢。首先第一個，就是我們今天審查的114年度總預算案，以及前瞻基礎建設特別預算，但是我們發現所謂的前瞻基礎建設一點都不前瞻，為什麼這樣講呢？首先先談基礎建設，院長覺得只有蓋個館舍、蓋個道路才是基礎建設嗎？我沒有要請您回答，我請您思考。我們在前瞻建設的預算書裡面看到很多所謂的前瞻，但很多跟科技相關的，不一定是硬體，其實有很多軟體、軟實力，真的要打基礎的話，我們應該是朝這個方向。我們看到預算書裡面提到的特別相關產業，大概都把焦點放在半導體的製造技術，可是這跟現在整個國際上的產業趨勢有所落差，所以國際對我們臺灣科技產業界的印象，就是硬體很強，可是軟體不行。既然這個是前瞻基礎建設，就應該利用我們臺灣硬體製造的產業優勢，把我們的弱項，也就是軟體的產業拉上來。本席強烈建議，一些目前熱門的產業，像人工智慧機器的訓練模型、各種AI應用開發，以及國外現在積極布局的量子計算領域等等，這些領域其實不是這一、兩年才出現的，當然，本席可以理解，包括我過去來不及參與，您也是才剛上任，而這個前瞻基礎建設特別預算明年度已經是第5期，可是我們在過去的前瞻基礎建設裡面都沒有看到這些項目，所以我們希望這種軟體、軟實力的基礎可以趁早來做。院長，希望您在位的一天您都可以來努力，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不錯！委員完全看到從2017年前瞻基礎建設開始以來到今天的轉變，從2017年的第1期開始，它真的就叫基礎建設，所以到現在第5期成效……"],["徐委員欣瑩：它沒有打基礎啊！有些該有的基礎……"],["卓院長榮泰：有的，包括水工程、軌道，這些都是基礎建設。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，接著是特別預算不特別。這些特別預算過去也引起很多的質疑，其實這些特別預算都在常態的預算裡面編列就可以，不需要特別嘛！因為我們的特別預算都變成特別隨便以及常態化，特別預算常態化就是現在大家最詬病的，所以我們的特別預算其實可以直接就編列在年度的預算裡面，除非有特別的，我們才真的特別編出來。"],["卓院長榮泰：兩點跟委員報告：第一就是前瞻之後賴總統提出五大信賴產業，其中的半導體、AI等等，就是要開始往軟體設計去做更多的研發。第二個部分，今年除了最後的前瞻基礎建設跟國防部的特別預算之外，我們沒有新編任何的特別預算，就是要回到正常預算的本身，用公務預算跟大院來進行對年度預算的審核。"],["徐委員欣瑩：非常好！我們希望能夠尊重整個財政紀律及預算的體制。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：接著本席想要針對國營事業績效不彰特別提出來，明年度的政府財政收入非常漂亮，114年預判我們的稅收總體增加了15.7%，這是因為現在國際局勢的情況變好，以及全民的努力累積出來的結果。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個非常值得高興，但是本席要特別提出來，在整個總預算裡面，我們的國營企業收入及財產收入這兩類都比前一年分別減少了10.8%及5.9%。院長，這個數字就表示人民來當老闆會賺錢，但是政府當老闆就虧錢。針對這個問題，我們特別看到在國營事業當中，去年台電就虧損了1,992億最為嚴重，而虧損的前五名裡面經濟部就占了三個，分別是台電、中油及台水。大家也都覺得台電、中油、台水不能倒，所以本席希望院長一定要好好的帶領這個執政團隊，大家一起充電、加油、多喝水！能不能讓國營事業轉虧為盈？院長，您有把這個設定為目標嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也一直希望把國營事業經營得活絡起來，所以包括經濟部郭部長，還有國發會劉主委，他們過去來自產業，都有比較跟我們公務傳統相反的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，本席是請問你們的整個執政團隊有沒有想說，我們的國營事業不能都一直虧損，否則對不起民眾啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有這樣的目標，我們也會做這樣的計畫，逐步來推行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：非常好。本席接著要講錯誤的政策比貪污更可怕。針對錯誤的政策，過去的能源配比在總質詢時本席提過了，我們用非常昂貴的再生能源，我們外購的再生能源價格比台電再生能源自發電的成本還要高，當然我們都知道這已經簽約20年，但是我們應該可以從其他方面改善，還有未來不要再犯這種錯誤。最特別的就是我們有比較潔淨也比較便宜的能源，之前院長有說可以考慮，那現在你們有沒有考慮未來要使用比較潔淨的能源，而且是價格比較低廉的？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，除了世界在研發的各種能源我們都密切注意之外，就國內而言，針對小水力或是地熱這樣的發展，我們也會注入更多的關心。"],["卓院長榮泰：那些產生的電都遠遠不及我們所需要的，所以看來這個部分真的還是不行。但沒關係，本席接著要講國營企業的另外一個問題就是屢屢發生弊案，包括112年宣判的中油煉製事業部的採購弊案、113年破獲的台電大林電廠採購弊案、近期的台鹽綠能公司弊案，還有台電的綠能弊案等等，不勝枚舉，所以民進黨執政，讓民眾感覺就是跟貪腐畫上等號，但是賴總統還有卓院長上任後，你們到底有沒有想給人民耳目一新的感覺？有沒有想要扭轉這個印象？"],["卓院長榮泰：台鹽綠能的問題，我們非常地痛心，我覺得當事人應該勇於面對社會……"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，請你就我的問題回答，因為我時間有限。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。另外，綠能犯罪的事情，我們多次提出要求能夠做多方的合作，來針對綠能犯罪……"],["徐委員欣瑩：未來，我們談未來！這些是已經被查出來的。未來卓院長帶領的行政院團隊，有沒有覺得絕對要讓民眾耳目一新，不要一直都發生這麼多弊案？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個就是對綠能犯罪，我們要全力地遏止，有不法，我們就糾出來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你對整個團隊有沒有喊話，針對大家的操守問題這方面？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不只是喊話，我們開過很多次的會，做過一些實際的計畫，我希望從檢、警、調單位能夠一一地下去執行，還有，經濟部、能源署跟台電也要貫徹整個制度面，讓它正常化。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們希望能夠如此。再來是第三點，本席要特別提到我們的教育經費。請院長看一下，臺灣在1990年代每年教育經費占GDP的比率都超過6%。我們再比較一下馬政府跟蔡政府，馬政府時代那8年，教育經費占GDP的比率也有百分之五點多到六；但是到了蔡政府，整個教育經費占GDP的比率就剩百分之四點多。我們又特別看了明年度的預算，我們稍微預測（GDP當然只能預測），2024年（今年）我們教育經費占整個GDP的比率只有4.26%，我們預測明年、後年如果沒有特別提高，大概也是百分之四點多。","本席想說的是，我們臺灣已經少子化，上次在這邊質詢的時候提到，我們的出生人口數從三十幾萬掉到十幾萬，現在只有13萬，生得少，還不好好地培養，把他培養成菁英。我們一般一個家庭生3個、5個，那就一般養；像那種只生1個的，花的經費不會因為只養育1個，就比養育3個的花費少、只有三分之一，沒有這樣，通常生得越少，我們越要把他培養成菁英，對不對？臺灣未來也需要這些國家的主人翁啊！所以針對我們的教育經費，院長，本席希望我們可以增加，讓教育經費占整個GDP的比率再增加1%，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們必須非常重視教育，但是過去幾年來我們的GDP它是大幅地成長，所以比率上減少了百分之零點多，但就數字上、金額上是增加很多的，比方113年我們的教育經費編了7,700億，114年我們會到達8,300億。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，我們特別看了，如果整個成長，世界各國都一起成長，所以我們還有一張表，就是我們看到我們臺灣跟世界主要先進國家比，人家也都百分之五點多、六點多，我們還是只有百分之四點多，所以我們還是有成長的空間。而且教育經費常常這邊也喊不夠、那邊也喊不夠，所以是不是可以就整體來說，為了我們的孩子，窮不能窮教育，苦不能苦孩子，更何況我們現在不窮，我們的稅收首次突破3兆1,500億。所以針對我們的教育經費，本席還是要替我們的教育為我們的孩子來請命，請問院長，我們可不可以增加1%？"],["卓院長榮泰：增加的幅度會有多少，我想應該要衡量未來整個需要，現在我們不僅在對0到6歲，乃至於高職、大學，我們都有更多新的機制之外，對整個學校老舊教室、甚至廁所的改建，我們也都編了幾百億的預算在支應，這個都會持續下去。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這些我們知道都在那個百分之四點多裡面，但是還是很不足，所以我們希望能夠再增加1%。"],["卓院長榮泰：未來我希望我們的高等教育在世界的排名能夠再往上升……"],["徐委員欣瑩：都要，都需要。"],["卓院長榮泰：那必須充實很多的教學設備、師資等等。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們希望教育經費占GDP的比率能夠再提高1%。","再來，本席想要就移轉性支付來討論，院長，你應該瞭解，整個移轉性支付的目的是在均衡我們社會的公平和正義，所以移轉性支付越高、越多就表示我們社會的問題越嚴重，我們看到整個預算裡面的移轉性支付逐年上漲，院長，你知道這個情況嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們來看看數字。"],["徐委員欣瑩：移轉性支付逐年上漲，從105年五千多億到現在七千多億，明年的預算是七千六百多億。再來，其中最主要、占最大比例的就是社福支出，最主要就是社福支出，社福支出持續上升就表示我們政府要花更多的預算來維護社會的公平正義，這也表示我們社會有一些問題依然嚴重，例如貧富差距以及很多的弱勢團體，還有高齡化、老齡化的來臨。面對這些問題我們需要的是解決方案，所以不能夠只有給魚不給釣竿，我不知道我們的行政院團隊、我們的政府有沒有注意到這個問題，以及如何來解決？"],["卓院長榮泰：在經濟高度發展之後要讓全民共享，況且我們步入了超高齡的社會、步入了少子化的社會，我們必須做更多的家庭社會投資，支持家庭減少他的負擔，所以這個支出會增加。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長，本席的時間有限，本席在這裡提供一個想法，美國有勞動所得稅務優惠，對於特定對象，像臺灣有一些中低收入戶或者是比較弱勢的，他如果是全職工作者，可不可以對他進行一些補貼及退稅？讓他的薪資達到一定水平之後，這個補貼再逐漸下降，也就是你要激勵他出來，讓他們改善自己的生活。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的勞動條件、環境跟美國不同，但是有好的方式，我想我們都可以去研究，我們會把它列為一個研究的方向。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第27號郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156508","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156508","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41898021aa8238b597e3fd33acf0e4cf8bddde5cfe1578d8c2f642cddcd8afeba65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"14:30:45 - 14:46:35","影片長度":"00:15:50","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T14:30:45+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T14:46:35+08:00","duration":950,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.606593750000002,"end":19.605968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.63534375,"end":22.609718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.94721875,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.26346875,"end":25.292843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24.719093750000003,"end":25.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.292843750000003,"end":25.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.81596875,"end":25.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.84971875,"end":26.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.00159375,"end":28.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.07721875,"end":28.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.34721875,"end":28.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.63409375,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":39.11346875,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.97409375,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.564718750000004,"end":40.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.58159375,"end":40.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.59846875,"end":43.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":41.56034375,"end":41.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.73284375,"end":46.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.63971875,"end":47.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.98971875,"end":49.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.204718750000005,"end":49.407218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.31846875,"end":53.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.13221875,"end":55.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.15284375,"end":59.414093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.814718750000004,"end":61.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.14784375000001,"end":63.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.42596875000001,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.61534375000001,"end":69.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.84284375,"end":70.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.88471875,"end":75.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.83346875000001,"end":81.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.14471875000001,"end":83.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.66346875,"end":86.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.62909375000001,"end":88.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.64159375,"end":89.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.24034375000001,"end":93.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.76721875000001,"end":95.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.44221875000001,"end":97.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.36159375000001,"end":99.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.71159375,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.48784375000001,"end":103.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.57159375,"end":107.00159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.40659375000001,"end":109.71846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.91659375,"end":111.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.29596875,"end":116.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.87346875,"end":118.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.59471875000001,"end":119.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.86034375000001,"end":121.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.08784375,"end":122.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":123.92721875000001,"end":126.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.48784375000001,"end":128.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.92221875,"end":129.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.49596875,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.58846875,"end":138.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.34659375,"end":140.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":140.88659375,"end":140.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.92034375,"end":141.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":141.07221875000002,"end":142.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":142.62471875,"end":143.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.90721875,"end":148.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":148.96971875,"end":152.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":153.01971875,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":158.87534375,"end":159.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.90471875,"end":163.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.02659375000002,"end":167.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.30846875,"end":173.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.77596875,"end":174.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.94471875000002,"end":176.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.33659375000002,"end":180.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.23471875,"end":184.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.50846875000002,"end":186.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":187.37721875000003,"end":188.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.08596875,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.57096875000002,"end":190.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":190.93784375,"end":193.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.15659375,"end":196.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.02971875,"end":202.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.00346875000002,"end":210.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":205.70346875,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.31034375000002,"end":212.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.57971875,"end":217.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.81971875000002,"end":219.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.96284375000002,"end":220.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":220.72221875000002,"end":222.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.64596875,"end":224.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":225.71721875,"end":227.84346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.75471875000002,"end":231.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.87221875,"end":233.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.00284375,"end":234.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.98159375,"end":237.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.12034375000002,"end":239.65596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.05221875,"end":245.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.78159375,"end":246.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.84471875000003,"end":247.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.65034375000002,"end":249.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.11846875,"end":250.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.08034375000003,"end":251.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.66659375,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.29909375000003,"end":256.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.67846875000004,"end":259.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.85096875,"end":261.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.28534375000004,"end":264.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.34409375,"end":266.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.35596875000005,"end":271.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.76909375,"end":273.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.56159375000004,"end":276.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.70909375,"end":281.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.94471875,"end":283.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.56034375,"end":292.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.92596875000004,"end":295.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.82846875,"end":298.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.50721875,"end":301.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.51534375,"end":303.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.79784375,"end":304.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.95784375,"end":307.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.52721875000003,"end":308.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.75034375,"end":311.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":311.42534375,"end":312.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.62346875000003,"end":313.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.68221875,"end":318.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.06971875,"end":321.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.14096875,"end":324.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.03471875,"end":328.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":329.71784375000004,"end":332.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.59909375,"end":334.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.20221875000004,"end":339.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.99471875,"end":341.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.90159375,"end":342.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.61034375,"end":343.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.05721875,"end":345.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.81659375000004,"end":346.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.71096875,"end":347.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.85846875000004,"end":350.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.73971875,"end":353.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.66346875000005,"end":354.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":355.62096875000003,"end":359.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":359.87346875000003,"end":361.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":361.47659375,"end":362.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":362.50596875,"end":363.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":364.17659375000005,"end":368.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":368.42909375000005,"end":372.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":373.27221875000004,"end":374.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":374.50409375000004,"end":383.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":383.75159375000004,"end":389.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.59034375000005,"end":392.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.36596875000004,"end":405.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.27971875000003,"end":406.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":407.78159375,"end":408.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.47346875000005,"end":411.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.79784375,"end":416.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.51846875,"end":418.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.93596875000003,"end":420.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":420.58971875000003,"end":420.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.31534375,"end":421.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.33221875000004,"end":421.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":422.63159375000004,"end":424.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":425.09534375000004,"end":426.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.57596875,"end":428.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.40284375000005,"end":429.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":430.09034375000005,"end":432.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":432.68909375000004,"end":435.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.02221875000004,"end":434.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.42284375,"end":435.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":435.92909375000005,"end":436.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.03034375000004,"end":436.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":436.33409375,"end":436.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.36784375,"end":436.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.53221875,"end":439.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.77221875000004,"end":443.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.55221875,"end":445.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.17221875,"end":447.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.65284375000005,"end":453.58034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.44096875,"end":456.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.36034375,"end":463.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":464.85284375000003,"end":465.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.62909375000004,"end":468.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.59909375,"end":470.84346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.61971875,"end":474.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.85534375000003,"end":480.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":480.96846875000006,"end":480.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.55909375000005,"end":482.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.09909375,"end":482.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.11596875000004,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.26784375000005,"end":488.52846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.91659375,"end":490.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.84034375000005,"end":492.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.64596875,"end":495.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.58221875000004,"end":501.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.07909375,"end":509.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.52534375000005,"end":512.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":513.0815937500001,"end":514.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.71846875,"end":517.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":518.2959687499999,"end":518.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":518.9878437500001,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.03846875,"end":519.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.89909375,"end":519.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.91596875,"end":529.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.46346875,"end":527.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.54721875,"end":531.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.57659375,"end":535.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.6772187500001,"end":546.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.4265937499999,"end":554.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.9697187500001,"end":554.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.2353437500001,"end":557.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.39096875,"end":559.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.66909375,"end":561.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":562.18784375,"end":562.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.2509687500001,"end":567.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.26721875,"end":569.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":570.20346875,"end":571.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":572.4140937500001,"end":576.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.81846875,"end":580.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.78409375,"end":585.3740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.01534375,"end":588.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":588.66471875,"end":592.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.3772187500001,"end":593.6765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.96346875,"end":596.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":597.96284375,"end":601.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":602.9578437499999,"end":607.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.64471875,"end":615.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.06971875,"end":619.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.03096875,"end":621.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.55409375,"end":638.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.0872187500001,"end":649.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.14471875,"end":652.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.0347187500001,"end":656.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":653.2453437500001,"end":654.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":655.55721875,"end":656.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.6709687500002,"end":665.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":657.85221875,"end":658.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.5178437500001,"end":667.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.96034375,"end":679.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.7053437500001,"end":682.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.16909375,"end":683.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.4053437500002,"end":685.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":685.7465937500001,"end":686.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.97846875,"end":692.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.5303437500002,"end":701.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":701.7947187500001,"end":705.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.9797187500001,"end":707.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.05971875,"end":708.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.30846875,"end":713.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.54846875,"end":714.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.17221875,"end":717.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":718.31534375,"end":719.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.99409375,"end":728.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.96346875,"end":729.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":730.68471875,"end":733.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":734.1103437500001,"end":735.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":735.15659375,"end":736.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.81409375,"end":744.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":744.5222187500001,"end":748.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.7747187500001,"end":763.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":764.2490937500002,"end":772.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.0747187500001,"end":775.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":775.82534375,"end":784.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.81971875,"end":790.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.59096875,"end":793.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.84346875,"end":795.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":794.8772187500001,"end":798.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.37909375,"end":797.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.2522187500001,"end":809.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.7778437500001,"end":811.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":811.4822187500001,"end":815.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.8359687500001,"end":824.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":825.58971875,"end":828.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":830.1628437500001,"end":830.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":830.23034375,"end":830.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":830.51721875,"end":831.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":831.8840937500001,"end":839.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":839.83221875,"end":847.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":847.6115937500001,"end":850.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":850.93596875,"end":851.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":852.30284375,"end":856.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":857.12909375,"end":863.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.03096875,"end":868.3172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":868.92471875,"end":870.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":871.1015937500001,"end":876.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.0078437500001,"end":877.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.09221875,"end":879.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":880.2309687500001,"end":882.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.52596875,"end":884.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":885.5803437500001,"end":893.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":894.4734687500002,"end":895.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":896.51534375,"end":898.6922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":898.89471875,"end":900.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":900.56534375,"end":901.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":901.96596875,"end":909.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":910.40346875,"end":910.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":910.82534375,"end":911.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":911.0278437500001,"end":913.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":913.77846875,"end":915.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":916.1240937500002,"end":923.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":923.3803437500001,"end":926.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":926.0803437500001,"end":930.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":930.21471875,"end":934.8384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":935.12534375,"end":939.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":939.39471875,"end":941.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":941.5209687500001,"end":941.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":941.9765937500001,"end":943.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":943.9340937500001,"end":944.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":949.65471875,"end":950.17784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.663,"end":43.428,"text":"好,謝謝院長。有請,呃,請見卓院長,呃,外交部陳林部長。麻煩請卓院長、外交部、國防部部長備詢。卓院長好。院長辛苦了。不會。我們每天都在思考國政。"},{"start":44.835,"end":68.806,"text":"思考怎麼讓國家更好讓人民更幸福那我認為面對所有的挑戰所有的千秋霸業基本上都從山窮水盡中開始執政者要做最好的準備但是做最壞的打算所以每天都要戰戰兢兢努力成功"},{"start":71.943,"end":96.864,"text":"所以莫忘初心方得始終初心亦得始終難守這是為政者該有的基本心態那我相信這個內閣用人一定有他嚴謹的程序用人不疑 疑人不用最怕是且用且疑或是半贏半拒"},{"start":98.413,"end":125.896,"text":"我認為這個所有用人程序在那個部分絕對沒有問題不管他跟他操守能力各部分一定有他嚴謹的程序跟標準那我想請教這個為什麼最近會有那麼多人事的紛擾我相信你是一個仁義之人而且你是用人為財是財是所對國家的未來你們思考最好的人選"},{"start":127.483,"end":127.743,"text":"委員提到這一點"},{"start":142.637,"end":145.899,"text":"我完全相信人事學是屬於行政權力部分"},{"start":168.342,"end":196.149,"text":"政務人員上臺下臺就是離職本屬稀鬆平常之事。任何從政者就必須保持一個平常心。他為什麼下臺還有人發出不平之名。我覺得用人程序嚴謹這絕對是沒有錯。這個標準我相信卓內閣已經做得到。我們一定非常謹慎。那我覺得那一定是有特殊的原因或者是溝通不良。如果溝通能夠好一點"},{"start":198.142,"end":224.669,"text":"讓離職者、讓下台者能夠有更多理解我想就不會有這些誤會是的,所以我們這個過程還是需要回過頭來看看我們都要充分尊重這個行政權裡面的用人權是財是所,用人為財我也相信是卓內閣這個用人的唯一的標準我相信,但是我覺得要跟社會做更多的溝通跟說明是的"},{"start":225.882,"end":253.484,"text":"當然國家面對這個主要講嚴重一點是內憂外患內憂我們有內部政黨的嚴重的對立甚至社會的分裂外患中國的武力的威脅每天持續我個人認為我的觀察內憂部分藍白之亂"},{"start":255.35,"end":280.696,"text":"是屬於界限之極,會亂,很煩。界限之極啊,每天都會覺得很亂,每天都會覺得很煩,那邊也癢,那邊也癢。中國的威脅才是台灣的心腹大患。所以要治療界限之極藍白之亂,"},{"start":281.994,"end":308.3,"text":"人民的理性力量很重要我們如何讓人民的理性力量發揮在下一次選舉給予藍白色人的制裁我相信人民的理性力量但是中國的武力威脅是台灣生存的心腹大患不能只有他們有毛我們只能用盾不能他們只有劍我們只有盾"},{"start":310.836,"end":338.9,"text":"建、頓、合一、有攻有守如何落實在外交政策跟國防政策上面如何反映在預算上面非常重要我們不能一直歪打,我們不是要採取防衛式所以我希望說針對中國武力威脅的這個心腹大患在外交政策上面在這個國防政策上面應該更有全盤的思維"},{"start":339.991,"end":346.933,"text":"過去我們在民主運動發展的過程我們從外徵主權內徵民主的過程到現在我們在"},{"start":364.209,"end":391.89,"text":"地緣政治的戰略地位在國際產業鏈的供應者的地位我們現在要維持的是讓台灣能夠和平穩定繁榮發展這個是我們更大一個目標在這個目標底下當然我會願意看到全國大家用這樣的共同方向當作團結的力量那也讓國際社會看到我們有自我保護自己的能力也願意負起國際的責任這個才是今天卓家最重要的發展之道"},{"start":394.874,"end":421.503,"text":"對界限之急有沒有耐心這可能長時間會對我們造成困擾我說內憂的部分外患的部分我們要有很明確的主張、策略、戰略來對付台灣的心腹大患所以應該有一個全盤的策略怎麼樣讓國人安心、國人放心台灣絕對可以保衛民主自由、主權獨立"},{"start":422.677,"end":443.676,"text":"身旁兩位部長都是國防外交最重要的掌握者那他們對於國家的主權跟國家的安全都會列為最重要的國家目標一定要讓國人安心、放心而且要保衛國家的決心我談到一個個案就是立陶宛最近國會大選國會大選內閣改組"},{"start":448.78,"end":474.773,"text":"當然總統在我們代表處的名稱過去跟前總理是不一致的那現任剛當選的總理他跟總統他對台灣是相對在我們代表處的名稱是相對比較保守好,如果內閣改組國會改選產生的新的內閣總理跟總統的對台灣代表處的名稱是一致的"},{"start":476.122,"end":479.466,"text":"會不會面臨臺灣代表處被更名、被迫更名的這個問題?"},{"start":482.531,"end":507.372,"text":"跟委員來說明這個我們設處的名稱是經過兩國政府這個同意之後這個才設定的所以我想一定是秉於這樣的原則所以現在雖然選舉過程當中或現在在籌儲政府有一些不同的意見那我相信台灣跟立陶宛的關係還是一個民主價值的一個"},{"start":508.032,"end":511.875,"text":"所以你們全盤沙盤推演?目前就是其實這也涉及到立陶宛他雖然有提到"},{"start":535.816,"end":540.358,"text":"我對您有信心,我也對卓院長有信心,我們一定可以把這名稱保留,但是要做很多的努力。"},{"start":563.969,"end":567.773,"text":"地方財政收支已經改善得非常顯著,中央補助地方的金額屢創新高,"},{"start":580.834,"end":599.913,"text":"你看這個從蔡總統到賴總統改善了地方的財務結構讓地方政府的長短期的債都逐年下降對地方政府補助逐年增加明年會創新高到1兆151億"},{"start":602.998,"end":619.3,"text":"好,在這種現況之下,地方補助昨天增加,財務狀況也明顯的改善。院長跟部長,您對當前國民黨主導的財化法的修正,你們認為有它的急迫性跟必要性嗎?"},{"start":621.092,"end":638.479,"text":"是 呃 跟委員報告首先就急迫性來講也就是說就如同這張表格所呈現的地方的財政已經大幅改善從原來的短處到去年已經有剩餘648億換言之地方的財政在中央大幅度的"},{"start":639.199,"end":667.239,"text":"的挹注之下以及各自的努力已經有大幅的改善換言之他的財政狀況是不錯的這是這一點那第二個就是說目前來說沒有必要性沒有那個急迫性也沒有必要性現狀是非常好的趨勢也不錯你看債務也持續下降然後也剩餘去年整體有640萬元的剩餘他為什麼好的趨勢好的現象他要改變呢"},{"start":668.019,"end":670.16,"text":"所以中央財源會更加窘迫過去任何的計畫性補助"},{"start":685.808,"end":687.509,"text":"為什麼一個反對黨會製造國家的危機呢?"},{"start":716.223,"end":716.903,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．邱志偉"},{"start":740.582,"end":763.2,"text":"議員長,投資台灣三大方案必須要有轉型的規劃。要怎麼轉型?我想包括產業的轉型,還有過去是在台投資的外商是不是可以是目前只有在台投資?那未來對全球的外商是不是也可以來台灣投資?有相關的政策的補貼,像美國、日本,"},{"start":764.298,"end":767.921,"text":"報告委員我們這個投資台灣辦公室有在進行對全球的企業我們都有在招商"},{"start":794.878,"end":797.819,"text":"那半導體的部分全球外商都有我們現在就是針對這個半導體AI五大信貸產業都對他們發出這個"},{"start":809.864,"end":810.324,"text":"麻煩請交通部長備選"},{"start":831.94,"end":833.541,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．邱志偉"},{"start":852.341,"end":877.56,"text":"前瞻只到2.0沒有繼續推出3.0或是類前瞻計畫相關的後續的軌道建設都會受到嚴重影響以這個高雄市高雄市捷運紅線為什麼做了成就是因為有前瞻建設的軌道建設經費那我們現在捷運紫縣也送到教研部可行性研究我想部長跟院長都支持但它經費高達將近2000億"},{"start":880.287,"end":895.334,"text":"如果沒有前瞻只靠市政府預算沒有辦法興建捷運直線這個未來是不是可以院長再思考一下為了國家長期的發展為了南北均衡的軌道建設沒有前瞻之後"},{"start":896.79,"end":925.601,"text":"這個交通建設他可能就必須要回歸到公務預算那每個地方政府在提出計畫之後他之前他必須提出完整的財務規劃那對地方政府來看都是一個很沉重的壓力每一個地方政府都沉重的壓力有壓力當然會有動力但是你動力端看他的財源是不足以成為足夠的動力一定需要類似前瞻3.0的計畫來致應所以我希望是不是從財源來思考"},{"start":926.201,"end":926.842,"text":"主席主席主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1028,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（14時31分）謝謝院長，有請行政院卓院長、外交部林部長、國防部顧部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長及外交部、國防部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["邱委員志偉：我們每天都要思考國政，思考怎麼樣讓國家更好，讓人民更幸福。我認為面對所有的挑戰，所有的千秋霸業基本上都是從山窮水盡中開始，執政者要做最好的準備，但是做最壞的打算，所以每天都要戰戰兢兢，戮力從公，莫忘初心，方得始終；初心易得，始終難守。這是為政者該有的基本心態。我相信內閣用人一定有它嚴謹的程序，用人不疑，疑人不用，最怕的是且用且疑或者是半迎半拒，我認為所有用人程序在內閣部分絕對沒有問題，不管是操守、能力各部分，一定有它嚴謹的程序跟標準。我想請教，為什麼最近會有那麼多人事的紛擾？我相信您是一個仁義之人，而且你是用人唯才、適才適所，對國家的未來，你們思考最好的人選來為國家服務、為人民造福。但為什麼最近會有一些人事之間的新聞等等，這到底是什麼問題呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員提到這一點，我想無論提的結果是如何，針對每一個事件，我們都必須深刻地自我反省、檢討當中是否有一些思慮不周的地方。事實上我們從520開始總統籌組內閣團隊，那個時候我們找到的都是在各界……"],["邱委員志偉：我完全相信，因為人事權是屬於行政權的一部分，政務人員上臺、下臺、就職、離職本屬稀鬆平常之事。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：任何從政者都必須保持一個平常心，但為什麼下臺後還有人發出不平之鳴？我覺得用人程序嚴謹，這絕對是沒有錯，這個標準我相信卓內閣一定做得到。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定非常謹慎。"],["邱委員志偉：我覺得那一定是有特殊的原因或者是溝通不良，如果溝通能夠好一點，讓離職者、讓下台者能夠有更多理解，我想就不會有這些誤會。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，所以這個過程還是需要回過頭來看看……"],["邱委員志偉：所以我充分尊重，我們都要充分尊重行政權裡面的用人權，我也相信適才適所、用人唯才是卓內閣用人的唯一標準，我相信！但是我覺得要跟社會做更多的溝通跟說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：如果講嚴重一點是內憂外患，內憂，我們有內部政黨嚴重的對立，甚至社會的分裂；外患，中國的武力威脅每天持續，我個人認為、就我的觀察，內憂部分──藍白之亂是屬於疥癬之疾，會亂、很煩！疥癬之疾就是每天都會覺得很亂、每天覺得很煩，這邊癢、那邊也癢，但中國的威脅才是臺灣的心腹大患。要治療疥癬之疾、藍白之亂，人民的理性力量很重要，我們如何讓人民的理性力量發揮，在下一次選舉給予藍白之亂制裁？我相信人民的理性力量。但中國的武力威脅是臺灣生存的心腹大患，不能只有他們有矛，我們只能用盾；不能只有他們有劍，我們只有盾，劍盾合一、有攻有守，如何落實在外交政策跟國防政策上面、如何反映在預算上面，非常重要！我們不能一路挨打，我們不能採取防衛式，所以我希望針對中國武力威脅這個心腹大患，在外交政策上面、在國防政策上面，應該更有全盤的思維，不能被動的防禦，甚至挨打，我們必須要主動的、有更積極的作為。我想請教院長，您的看法是？"],["卓院長榮泰：過去我們在民主運動發展的過程，從外爭主權、內爭民主的過程到現在，我們在地緣政治的戰略地位、在國際產業鏈供應者的地位，現在要維持讓臺灣能夠和平、穩定、繁榮、發展，這是我們更大的目標。在這個目標底下，當然我會願意看到全國、大家用這樣的共同方向當作團結的力量，讓國際社會看到我們有自我保護的能力，也願意負起國際的責任，這個才是今天國家最重要的發展之道。"],["邱委員志偉：對疥癬之疾，我們要有耐心，這可能長時間會對我們造成困擾，我是說內憂的部分。外患的部分，我們要有很明確的主張、策略、戰略來對付臺灣的心腹大患，所以應該有一個全盤的策略，怎麼樣讓國人安心、放心，臺灣絕對可以保衛民主自由、主權獨立。"],["卓院長榮泰：我身旁兩位部長都是國防、外交最重要的掌握者，對於國家的主權跟國家的安全，他們都會列為最重要的國家目標。"],["邱委員志偉：一定要讓國人安心、放心，而且也要有保衛國家的決心。","我談一個個案，就是立陶宛最近國會大選，國會大選、內閣改組，當然，過去的總統對我們代表處名稱的立場跟前總理是不一致的，現任剛當選的總理跟總統對臺灣代表處的名稱相對比較保守。如果內閣改組、國會改選產生新的內閣總理，跟總統對臺灣代表處名稱的立場是一致的，會不會面臨臺灣代表處被迫更名的問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：請林部長說明。"],["林部長佳龍：我們設處的名稱是經過兩國政府同意之後才設定的，所以我想一定是秉於這樣的原則。雖然選舉過程當中或現在在籌組政府，有一些不同的意見，我相信臺灣跟立陶宛的關係還是有民主價值作為基礎。"],["邱委員志偉：政府會更迭，政策也會改變。我說的是政府已經更迭了，我們會不會被迫更名？我們有沒有相關的因應之道？"],["林部長佳龍：當然，針對各種可能，透過政府跟政府之間的管道，我們都會保持很好的溝通。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你們有全盤的沙盤推演？"],["林部長佳龍：其實這也涉及立陶宛，他雖然有提到設處名稱中文、英文的問題，不過他也是一個有自己主權的國家，不會在中國的脅迫之下，就做出什麼決定。我們當然要盡一切的努力去溝通，希望能夠維持當時兩國同意的名稱。"],["邱委員志偉：我對你有信心，我對你有信心，我也對卓院長有信心，我們一定可以把這個名稱保留，但是要做很多的努力。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["邱委員志偉：兩位部長先請回。有關於財政收支劃分法，請莊部長。"],["主席：麻煩請財政部部長備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：地方財政收支已經改善得非常顯著，中央補助地方的金額屢創新高，你看，這個從蔡總統到我們賴總統，改善了地方的財務結構，讓地方政府長、短期的債都逐年下降，對地方政府的補助逐年增加，明年會創新高到1兆151億。在這種現況之下，地方補助逐年增加，財務狀況也明顯的改善，院長跟部長，您對當前國民黨主導財劃法的修正，你們認為有它的急迫性跟必要性嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，跟委員報告，首先就急迫性來講，也就是說，如同這張表格所呈現的，地方的財政已經大幅改善，從原來的短絀，到去年已經有賸餘648億。換言之，地方的財政在中央大幅度的挹注以及各自的努力之下，已經有大幅的改善。換言之，它的財政狀況是不錯的，這是第一點。第二個，以目前來說，國民黨版……"],["邱委員志偉：我打斷你，沒有必要性……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有那個急迫性……"],["邱委員志偉：也沒有必要性？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，然後再加上……"],["邱委員志偉：現狀是非常好的，趨勢也不錯？"],["莊部長翠雲：現狀以地方財政來說，事實上，你看，債務也持續下降，然後也有賸餘，去年整體達648億……"],["邱委員志偉：那為什麼好的趨勢、好的現象，他要改變呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來看，國民黨版要求中央大幅釋出6,612億，這個對中央來說，會造成中央施政上很大的一個困難，因為……"],["邱委員志偉：所以中央財源會更加窘迫。"],["莊部長翠雲：會更加窘迫。"],["邱委員志偉：過去任何的計畫型補助都會沒有了。"],["莊部長翠雲：你看，計畫型補助以114年來說就有2,911億元，如果說中央要再增加釋出一年6,612億，幾乎就是沒有一個彈性可以來做調整了。"],["邱委員志偉：所以很多中央的重大施政都會受到延宕或者影響？"],["莊部長翠雲：都會受到影響。"],["邱委員志偉：這是國家的危機，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，因為就我們中央來說，法定義務支出就達到1兆8,000億……"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼一個反對黨會製造國家的危機呢？我百思不得其解，我徹夜輾轉難眠，這個問題請部長回去再跟在野黨好好溝通，我擔心他明後天強渡關山。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝部長。另外，我請國發會主委跟經濟部郭部長。","院長，投資臺灣三大方案必須要有轉型的規劃。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員志偉：要怎麼轉型？我想包括產業的轉型，還有過去是在臺投資的外商。目前只有針對在臺投資，未來對全球的外商，是不是來臺灣投資也可以有相關的政策補貼？像美國、日本對於半導體業者，它是強烈的補貼、高額的補貼，除了政策補貼跟行政協助之外，我們有沒有可能再用租稅優惠？"],["卓院長榮泰：如何把臺灣的產業帶向國際或是如何歡迎國際的產業投資到臺灣，經濟部一直有一個不錯的想法，這個要經過思考之後再落實，我們請部長來說明一下。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們的投資臺灣辦公室有在進行對全球的企業，我們都有在招商，那半導體的部分……"],["邱委員志偉：不僅是現在在臺投資的外商，全球外商都有？"],["郭部長智輝：全球外商都有，我們現在就是針對半導體、AI等五大信賴產業，都對他們發出訊息，歡迎他們到臺灣來投資。"],["邱委員志偉：所以過去的投資臺灣三大方案，第一個，它會延期，對不對？它會延期、延長時效，另外也增加更多的產業。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：也歡迎全世界所有外商都來臺灣投資。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。好，最後一個問題，請教交通部陳部長。"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：前瞻特別預算負擔過去八年的軌道建設，大概支應了38%、接近四成經費，我希望在未來能夠推出前瞻3.0或者類似前瞻的相關經費，因為在未來有很多軌道建設，如果前瞻只到2.0，沒有繼續推出3.0或者類前瞻計畫，相關的、後續的軌道建設都會受到嚴重影響。以高雄市為例，高雄市捷運紅線為什麼做得成？就是因為有前瞻建設的軌道建設經費。現在我們的捷運紫線也送到交通部進行可行性研究，我想部長跟院長都支持，但它的經費高達近2,000億，如果沒有前瞻，只靠市政府預算，是沒有辦法興建捷運紫線的，這個部分院長是不是可以再思考一下？為了國家長期發展，也為了南北均衡的軌道建設。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有前瞻之後，相關交通建設可能就必須回歸到公務預算，而每個地方政府在提出計畫之前必須要有完整的財務規劃，這對地方政府而言，都是一個很沉重的壓力。"],["邱委員志偉：對每一個地方政府都是沉重壓力，有壓力當然會有動力，但端靠他的財源不足以成為足夠動力，一定需要類似前瞻3.0的計畫來支應，所以我希望是不是從財源來思考，既然可行性研究已經在做，但巧婦難為無米之炊，希望行政院能夠延續過去的思維，編列前瞻3.0來支應未來的軌道建設。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們來想辦法看跨縣市的建設如何能夠銜接起來，如果強弱不均的話，是很難執行的。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在議場2樓旁聽再增加臺北市百齡高中國中部的老師跟同學，歡迎大家，歡迎。","接下來請登記第26號徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156507","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156507","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d419dc37f203358e991e3fd33acf0e4cf8bddde5cfe1578d8c2f3b915669f50d0dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:36:17 - 11:52:09","影片長度":"00:15:52","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T11:36:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T11:52:09+08:00","duration":952,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.5834687500000002,"end":2.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.11909375,"end":4.705343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.2115937500000005,"end":7.000343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.70346875,"end":17.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.50909375,"end":19.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.820968750000002,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.719093750000003,"end":26.625968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.68909375,"end":29.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.06409375,"end":31.671593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.59971875,"end":33.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.30409375,"end":37.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.14721875,"end":40.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.32409375,"end":43.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.00721875,"end":45.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.846593750000004,"end":56.258468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.51159375,"end":58.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.37221875,"end":60.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.469093750000006,"end":59.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.494093750000005,"end":60.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.73034375,"end":62.367218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.244718750000004,"end":65.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.430343750000006,"end":63.98721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.31596875000001,"end":67.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.68284375,"end":70.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.31096875,"end":71.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.58096875000001,"end":74.34846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.66534375,"end":73.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.92659375000001,"end":77.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.00596875000001,"end":82.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.98034375,"end":82.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.98846875000001,"end":88.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.47284375000001,"end":90.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.56096875,"end":93.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.21471875,"end":94.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.00346875000001,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.17221875,"end":95.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.98221875,"end":96.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.35346875,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.19721875,"end":98.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.01971875000001,"end":102.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.10346875,"end":103.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.69409375000001,"end":105.29721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.09034375,"end":116.53596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.64284375000001,"end":109.38096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.87346875,"end":118.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.12221875,"end":121.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.99909375000001,"end":124.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.31096875,"end":129.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.96409375000002,"end":131.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.89221875,"end":135.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.19534375,"end":138.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.84034375000002,"end":141.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.20721875,"end":142.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.40534375000001,"end":150.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.23096875000002,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.18846875,"end":154.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.48784375,"end":155.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.98971875,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.82034375,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.41909375,"end":162.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.66784375,"end":172.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.43534375000002,"end":167.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.09721875000002,"end":170.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.24471875,"end":172.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.93221875,"end":174.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.51409375,"end":176.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.01596875,"end":178.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.77096875,"end":179.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.95221875000001,"end":181.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.41596875000002,"end":184.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.53784375,"end":188.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.03096875,"end":189.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.11096875,"end":194.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.76846875,"end":196.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":196.59096875,"end":199.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":200.16846875000002,"end":201.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":201.78846875000002,"end":203.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.33659375000002,"end":207.62721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.62284375000002,"end":209.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":209.53409375,"end":210.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":210.95159375,"end":212.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":213.92159375,"end":216.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":217.76909375000002,"end":219.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":219.91221875000002,"end":219.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.97971875000002,"end":221.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.13159375,"end":223.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.95409375000003,"end":224.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.49784375000002,"end":226.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":226.98284375,"end":227.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":228.58596875,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.64846875,"end":234.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.01096875000002,"end":238.01909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.10346875000002,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.09034375000002,"end":242.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.62596875000003,"end":245.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":244.27971875000003,"end":244.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":245.71409375000002,"end":250.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.86096875,"end":250.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.91159375,"end":250.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.75534375,"end":255.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.87346875000003,"end":253.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.37096875,"end":255.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":255.50159375,"end":265.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.25971875,"end":265.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.20034375,"end":268.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":268.81596875,"end":269.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.52471875000003,"end":271.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":272.62971875,"end":275.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.22846875,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.13534375,"end":278.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.65409375,"end":281.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.51846875,"end":284.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.94846875,"end":286.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":287.93534375,"end":288.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.36971875,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.24721875,"end":292.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":290.29784375,"end":290.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.82909375,"end":295.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.89596875,"end":301.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":297.19971875000005,"end":297.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":298.31346875,"end":298.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":301.53659375,"end":304.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.47284375000004,"end":304.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.21534375000005,"end":305.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.17721875,"end":308.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.90659375,"end":317.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.36096875000004,"end":321.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.22534375000004,"end":327.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.66346875,"end":332.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.16034375000004,"end":335.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.34971875,"end":340.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.68659375000004,"end":342.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.00284375,"end":347.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":347.68971875,"end":348.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.26346875,"end":348.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":348.33096875,"end":349.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.41534375000003,"end":349.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.61346875000004,"end":349.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":350.18721875,"end":353.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.49471875,"end":356.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":353.64659375,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":354.03471875,"end":354.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":354.18659375000004,"end":354.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":355.13159375000004,"end":356.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":357.12284375,"end":362.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.03346875,"end":362.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.09659375,"end":363.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":363.38346875,"end":363.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.40034375000005,"end":363.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":363.83909375,"end":363.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.97409375,"end":369.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.65659375,"end":372.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.63096875,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":375.33096875,"end":377.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.87909375000004,"end":378.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.36846875000003,"end":378.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.11096875000004,"end":379.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":379.14471875000004,"end":386.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.16159375,"end":380.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.11909375000005,"end":381.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.27471875000003,"end":386.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.13096875,"end":386.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.29971875,"end":395.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":388.71284375000005,"end":389.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":392.57721875000004,"end":395.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":395.91846875000005,"end":400.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.98596875000004,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.85471875,"end":404.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.01409375000003,"end":408.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.72659375,"end":410.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.08909375,"end":412.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":411.24096875000004,"end":411.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":412.35471875,"end":414.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":414.83534375000005,"end":416.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":416.92784375,"end":420.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.66159375,"end":420.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.02846875,"end":424.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.47096875000005,"end":425.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":425.02784375000005,"end":427.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.90096875,"end":430.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.57971875000004,"end":432.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.60034375000004,"end":435.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.13596875,"end":436.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.14409375,"end":438.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":438.29159375,"end":440.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.32096875,"end":440.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":440.80596875000003,"end":440.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.97471875,"end":441.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":441.05909375000005,"end":441.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.39659375,"end":442.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":442.13909375000003,"end":442.15596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.15596875000006,"end":442.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":442.44284375,"end":444.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.59471875,"end":442.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.65784375000004,"end":444.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":444.72096875000005,"end":445.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":445.90221875000003,"end":445.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.91909375,"end":453.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.83346875,"end":459.87471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":459.87471875000006,"end":461.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.21221875000003,"end":461.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":461.66346875000005,"end":464.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":464.53221875,"end":466.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":467.53596875000005,"end":469.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":470.01659375,"end":473.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.13846875,"end":473.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":474.16784375000003,"end":474.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.26909375,"end":477.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":474.28596875000005,"end":475.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":477.52596875,"end":481.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":482.16659375,"end":483.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.63034375,"end":492.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":486.79034375000003,"end":487.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":488.12346875000003,"end":494.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.67096875000004,"end":503.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":502.78784375000004,"end":506.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":506.95596875,"end":508.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":508.77846875000006,"end":509.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":510.12846875,"end":511.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":512.1028437499999,"end":517.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.91659375,"end":522.0928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.37534375,"end":525.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.2053437500001,"end":532.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.2847187500001,"end":537.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.6472187500001,"end":539.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.6047187500001,"end":542.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.0347187500001,"end":543.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":544.0134687500001,"end":545.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.2453437500001,"end":545.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.6459687500001,"end":548.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.1772187500001,"end":551.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.26534375,"end":552.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.51409375,"end":555.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.01159375,"end":557.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.8003437500001,"end":559.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.85909375,"end":561.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.32284375,"end":563.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.4153437500001,"end":566.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.7397187500001,"end":569.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.10221875,"end":571.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.89096875,"end":572.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.57846875,"end":576.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.53159375,"end":578.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.40471875,"end":579.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":578.4890937499999,"end":578.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":578.52284375,"end":580.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":581.05409375,"end":582.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.8303437500001,"end":584.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":583.8215937500001,"end":584.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.5303437499999,"end":584.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.85096875,"end":586.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":586.40346875,"end":590.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.76159375,"end":590.0147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.03159375,"end":591.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":590.8247187500001,"end":590.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":590.89221875,"end":591.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":591.88784375,"end":600.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.1953437500001,"end":597.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.4353437500001,"end":601.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":601.70909375,"end":603.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":603.4640937500001,"end":603.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.25721875,"end":604.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":604.3078437500001,"end":605.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":606.6028437500001,"end":610.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.02409375,"end":613.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":611.29409375,"end":611.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":612.0365937500001,"end":612.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":612.57659375,"end":614.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":614.92221875,"end":616.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":617.04846875,"end":617.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":618.1115937500001,"end":618.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":619.15784375,"end":623.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":623.4778437500001,"end":624.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.07659375,"end":628.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.29971875,"end":629.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.1772187500001,"end":631.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.4722187500001,"end":633.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":634.91909375,"end":635.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.76284375,"end":636.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.0790937500001,"end":638.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":639.2053437500001,"end":639.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.27284375,"end":639.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":639.84659375,"end":640.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":640.3190937500001,"end":640.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.97721875,"end":643.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.3015937499999,"end":646.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.3897187499999,"end":649.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.26284375,"end":649.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.68034375,"end":651.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.08096875,"end":654.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.2365937500001,"end":656.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.70034375,"end":659.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.0459687500002,"end":661.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.95284375,"end":663.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.3828437500001,"end":665.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.9184687500001,"end":667.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.4665937500001,"end":670.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.1497187500001,"end":672.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.8372187500001,"end":674.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.86221875,"end":675.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.70159375,"end":680.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":680.22846875,"end":683.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":684.2109687500001,"end":685.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":686.1853437500001,"end":694.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":694.82534375,"end":696.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":695.4328437500001,"end":699.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":698.08221875,"end":699.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.9509687500001,"end":703.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.0390937500001,"end":706.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.21159375,"end":708.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.9665937500001,"end":710.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":710.02971875,"end":710.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.3503437500001,"end":710.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.4640937500001,"end":711.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.3584687500002,"end":712.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":713.65784375,"end":715.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.8178437500001,"end":717.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":718.31534375,"end":719.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.4753437500001,"end":721.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.82534375,"end":723.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.79971875,"end":725.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.36909375,"end":727.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.84971875,"end":728.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":728.57534375,"end":731.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.06846875,"end":732.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":732.64221875,"end":733.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.7097187500001,"end":733.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":734.2453437500001,"end":739.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":734.6672187500001,"end":734.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":734.76846875,"end":734.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.3415937500001,"end":752.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.23034375,"end":753.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.85409375,"end":759.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.2253437500001,"end":755.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.23284375,"end":760.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":760.75596875,"end":761.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":761.09346875,"end":761.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":762.5447187500001,"end":767.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.7678437500001,"end":771.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":767.21909375,"end":768.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":770.0203437499999,"end":770.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.6697187500001,"end":774.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":775.5890937500001,"end":777.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":778.8290937500001,"end":779.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.8034687500001,"end":784.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":786.40596875,"end":787.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.2409687500001,"end":790.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.02971875,"end":793.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":794.3372187500001,"end":795.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.5522187500001,"end":796.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.64471875,"end":798.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":799.14659375,"end":799.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":799.99034375,"end":800.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":801.52596875,"end":802.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":803.2978437500001,"end":806.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":808.59659375,"end":809.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":810.14909375,"end":810.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":812.0390937500001,"end":812.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":813.25409375,"end":815.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.19034375,"end":817.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.0803437500001,"end":819.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.6497187500001,"end":821.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.51846875,"end":823.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":824.32409375,"end":825.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.6909687500001,"end":826.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.58534375,"end":828.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.72846875,"end":830.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":830.82096875,"end":831.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":831.5634687500001,"end":832.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":834.1284687500001,"end":834.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.42784375,"end":841.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":841.36784375,"end":844.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.8272187500002,"end":845.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.3797187500002,"end":846.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.9197187500001,"end":847.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.21909375,"end":853.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.72034375,"end":867.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":865.1615937500001,"end":867.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":868.06409375,"end":871.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":871.9284687500001,"end":879.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.2478437500001,"end":885.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.3659687500001,"end":881.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.4622187500001,"end":885.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":885.49596875,"end":886.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.68159375,"end":888.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":888.5672187500002,"end":891.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":891.6215937500001,"end":892.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.7353437500001,"end":906.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":893.66346875,"end":894.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.0347187500001,"end":894.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.23721875,"end":895.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":905.08784375,"end":906.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":906.30284375,"end":906.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":908.32784375,"end":911.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":910.3528437500001,"end":913.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":911.93909375,"end":912.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.1159687500001,"end":918.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":942.21284375,"end":951.9665937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.918,"end":28.561,"text":"謝謝主席有請行政院的卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢代委員好代理院長你好我是不是可以合理的比較樂觀期待有關於這次總預算那麼你已經"},{"start":31.161,"end":37.514,"text":"宣布了,或者是要處理了,就是差那個20幾億,一定把它補起來,我可以這樣子理解嗎?"},{"start":39.278,"end":65.473,"text":"行政院有提出我們的看法跟期待那我希望這個期待是我們互相建立這樣的尊重共識原則底下我們共同來找出至今的來源那我已經提出了幾個方法但是每個方法都有委員不同意所以我想還是要談一下那總之這就是一個解決的方向就是要解決嘛十幾億可以解決了這個要感謝我們韓院長他這麼有智慧先讓這個程序先走"},{"start":66.383,"end":93.713,"text":"照你講,他是等於立法院先讓步,你知道嗎?互相尊重啦,我也感謝有這個機會來做說明。我們說這是什麼,狹路相逢是勇者順。院長,韓院長很有智慧啊。你有一個表面上讓你贏一下,事實上雙贏喔。國家往前走,所以20幾億的追加預算不要跳票。下午就很簡單的啊,復會就很簡單啊。"},{"start":95.334,"end":121.005,"text":"謝謝委員幫忙謝謝委員支持阿你要先坐阿院長給你搭一個台子你就順勢走下來對不對你要不要感謝一下我們韓院長謝謝韓院長謝謝大院其實如果是第一一開始就復委我來這裡講的跟今天講的就一模一樣這個這個內容從那個時候到現在我心裡的準備是沒有改變阿你不先回我阿再先好啦我不要當這個時間了喔我們來看一下"},{"start":126.153,"end":151.781,"text":"這個這兩天你已經有對外講了人事的問題等等的齁結果中友董事長一上台以後馬上講了他說要合理反映油價要改變那個 mindset說我們是亞洲鄰國包括日本包括新加坡包括香港最便宜的油價這個要拿掉意思就是要漲油價啦"},{"start":153.881,"end":166.873,"text":"這個經濟部的部長可以來幫忙嗎?回答一下,經濟部說認同耶!我們中央董事長說要漲油價,那個白話文就是要漲油價,合理合理啊!不是這樣的講法,我們的油價調整每週他都有一個機制在調整,這個機制不會改變,這個機制不會改變"},{"start":175.758,"end":177.319,"text":"報告委員我想這個現在的經濟學都這樣子啦今年的這個諾貝爾經濟學獎"},{"start":204.38,"end":208.862,"text":"所以拋出一個大家可以討論的議題聽聽這個社會的意見這種在室內討論的這種大概沒有辦法聽到所有人的聲音"},{"start":233.701,"end":234.288,"text":"所以一定要跑出來"},{"start":236.138,"end":237.078,"text":"請問你啊請問你啊"},{"start":266.489,"end":283.825,"text":"現在的中油累積虧損多少?啊?中油的累積虧損多少?現在中油的累積虧損,你是說今年嗎?全部,累積虧損當然,到目前為止啊。今年大概累積大概800億吧?累積虧損600多億,台電累積虧損多少?"},{"start":289.708,"end":301.333,"text":"臺電臺電多少我要強調的是在於在於啊你是說隆重嗎隆重累積啊累積啊收法到現在為止過去盤股開店到現在累積虧損了現在臺電的累積到4200億好那你說臺電我們就要漲價"},{"start":309.943,"end":314.325,"text":"委員我們在這裡對話都有一個責任就是讓社會安心這並不會發生的事情"},{"start":333.114,"end":333.615,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":350.231,"end":350.711,"text":"這個只是一個議題嘛"},{"start":379.175,"end":407.524,"text":"我講這個委員你以前也是當教授你也很清楚嘛這個都可以討論的阿部長你這個話跟院長不一樣喔院長踩得很死喔沒有得討論阿你是說大家討論阿他講的是投資喔他講事件是投資不是說調整這個價格喔菲律賓的如果在那裡種綠墊運花來4塊錢搞不可能4塊錢青菜公共捏"},{"start":408.784,"end":431.971,"text":"你知不知道菲律賓的電價平均多少?報告委員,我是不會青菜公共的。我在大學也教書,我教研究所,我怎麼可能青菜公共?我跟你一樣,你英國也在大學教車,你怎麼不青菜公共?我都不會青菜公共。是啊,那我怎麼可能青菜公共?你去大學青菜公共,不青菜公共,來這裡青菜公共?你跟我講啊,四塊錢!"},{"start":433.652,"end":440.779,"text":"菲律賓的電發電成本多少你告訴我?菲律賓多少錢?各種不同的綠電有不同的綠電我跟委員報告啦"},{"start":446.527,"end":448.869,"text":"不是 委員 你知道價格的影響變數很多嘛"},{"start":467.588,"end":477.278,"text":"那不能講說他現在的價格他現在的價格根據規模根據金我已經講過了我在菲律賓的這個價格4塊錢到台灣我才可能買"},{"start":484.801,"end":488.543,"text":"如果不考慮土地成本不考慮資金成本"},{"start":512.17,"end":525.88,"text":"那麼他的創電價格可以控制在3塊以下你先請回吧,因為我的題目很多,你不要在這讓我有太多時間請你叫那個外交部長好不好好謝謝,麻煩請外交部長備詢這個院長看好了"},{"start":536.328,"end":563.113,"text":"外交部長林佳龍10月29日去訪問聖文森對法部長對,報告委員參觀了Orange Hill菊山生技中心我們還投入了1.3億包括菊山生技公司當然在聖文森這叫做什麼的"},{"start":564.571,"end":583.423,"text":"這叫做大麻的怎麼會把我們國和基金的錢拿去投資拿去鼓勵我們的友邦做大麻這對我們來講是毒品吶報告委員查無此事查無此事什麼叫查無此事"},{"start":586.465,"end":610.296,"text":"就是我們沒有這個任何去援助跟大麻有關沒有,你有沒有投資一點三億給他?橘山生技是有一個很重大的一些東西請問你有沒有我們最主要包括養殖啦國合基金有沒有投一點三億我就問你這個有沒有投一點三億我們投一點三億給他們?查五尺是沒有涉及任何跟大麻種植有關"},{"start":612.853,"end":638.184,"text":"我們有協助他們包括家畜類還有包括果樹但是沒有大馬這個院長你要不要借這個機會因為我跟你講一個背景故事請問聖文山的人口多少11萬他們國民所得多少"},{"start":639.209,"end":667.108,"text":"他們大概都一萬左右大概一萬啦,八千九千左右啦齁這個這麼小的一個國家它的主要很重要的一個出口就是表面上叫用要用的大碼事實上就是娛樂性的大碼這是它很重要的產品輸出當然它大碼合法化了可是它基本上來講的話它就是裡面盛產了"},{"start":668.787,"end":669.949,"text":"報告委員我們比如像鳳梨的這些玉"},{"start":684.264,"end":688.586,"text":"大麻當然不是一個合法的不可以合法喔不可以合法然後然後"},{"start":714.08,"end":727.914,"text":"請外交部部長承諾我們不會去支持或者不會去投資大麻的任何的用品以及這個產品的任何的公司可不可以這樣講 有幫"},{"start":728.969,"end":730.83,"text":"對,我們不會去投資"},{"start":758.629,"end":761.511,"text":"現在大家最關心的請問就是川普啊川普到底誰會當選川普已經講了兩次"},{"start":789.318,"end":814.915,"text":"說臺灣要Pay for Defense就是要叫保護會叫保護會Pay for Defense講得非常清楚那我就請問啊兩次要叫保護會如果一旦這次大家認為川普當選機率很高那我們是怎麼樣直接部保護會像這個韓國日本"},{"start":816.169,"end":821.091,"text":"我想跟委員報告我想不論誰當選我們國防部的立場就是說我們一定要展現自我防衛的能力跟決心那我們的"},{"start":846.357,"end":850.199,"text":"我們買了很多武器,他最可能就是叫我們多買一些武器"},{"start":872.112,"end":878.977,"text":"雖然有說我們要他不賣但是呢他只要願意賣給我們我們就歡迎但是我們就發現到人的問題最重要"},{"start":880.325,"end":894.888,"text":"人不足啊!所以有沒有可能我題目我時間快到了就問你這個最簡單的問題給志願役加薪可不可以?志願役加薪志願役太低啊!薪水太低沒人來啊!所以現在只有八成補啊!志願役加薪可以嗎?志願役加50%有沒有可能?"},{"start":908.373,"end":909.314,"text":"因為整個調整的弧度,我想我們必須要研議"},{"start":942.513,"end":945.197,"text":"謝謝賴士葆委員質詢。謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長來備詢。謝謝報告委員會在議場二樓旁聽來自屏東縣離港縣"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":881,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時36分）謝謝主席，有請行政院的卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：院長你好。我是不是可以合理地、比較樂觀期待有關於這次總預算，你已經宣布了或者是要處理了，就是差那個二十幾億，一定把它補起來，我可以這樣子理解嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院有提出我們的看法跟期待，那我希望這個期待是我們互相建立這樣的尊重共識原則底下，我們共同來找出資金的來源，那我已經提出了幾個方法，但是每個方法都有委員不同意，所以我想還是要談一下，但總之這就是一個解決的方向。"],["賴委員士葆：就是要解決嘛！二十幾億可以解決了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員士葆：這個要感謝我們的韓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：他有這個智慧先讓這個程序先走，照理講他是等於立法院先讓步你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們互相尊重，我也感謝有這個機會來做說明。"],["賴委員士葆：我們都說狹路相逢勇者勝，院長，韓院長很有智慧喔！讓一下……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝院長。"],["賴委員士葆：表面上讓你贏一下，事實上是雙贏，國家往前走，所以二十幾億的追加預算不要跳票，下午就很簡單了，付委很簡單，我這樣講你同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員幫忙、謝謝委員支持。"],["賴委員士葆：你要先做啊！院長給你搭一個台子，你就順勢走下來，對不對？你要不要感謝一下我們韓院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝韓院長、謝謝大院。"],["賴委員士葆：要感謝一下啊！對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：其實如果是一開始就付委，我來這裡講的跟今天講的就一模一樣，這個內容從那個時候到現在，我心裡的準備是沒有改變。"],["賴委員士葆：你們先違法在先，好啦！我不要耽誤這個時間，我們來看一下，這兩天你已經有對外講人事的問題等等，中油董事長一上台以後馬上講了，他說要合理反映油價，要改變那個mindset，說我們是亞洲鄰國，包括日本、包括新加坡、包括香港最便宜的油價，這個要拿掉，意思就是要漲油價啦！經濟部的部長可以來幫忙回答一下，經濟部說認同耶！我們中油董事長說要漲油價，那個白話文就是要漲油價……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是，委員，不是這樣的講法，也不是這個邏輯，不是這樣的講法，我們的油價調整，每週它都有一個機制在調整……"],["賴委員士葆：我知道，公式要改變……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個機制不會改變，這個機制不會改變。"],["賴委員士葆：部長要說一下嗎？你們經濟部都支持耶！昨天上台的中油新董事長說要合理反映油價，他講這句話啊！6個字喔！「合理反映油價」，然後經濟部點兩點支持，就是要漲油價不是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想現在的經濟學都是這樣子，今年的諾貝爾經濟學獎得主他講過，廣納型的方式可能會得到一個比較好的結果，所以拋出一個大家可以討論的議題，聽聽這個社會的意見，如果大家都同意……"],["賴委員士葆：所以沒有錯啊！你看卓院長拋出了漲價的議題，大家要討論啊！就是這樣嘛！就是這個意思，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，在室內討論的這種，大概沒有辦法聽到所有人的聲音啦！"],["賴委員士葆：所以一定要拋出來，就是這個意思嘛！要拋出來給大家看啊！要漲價也要問問大家要不要漲價呀！你的意思就是這樣，難道不是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在是在討論，我們不必要求非得亞洲最便宜的啦，如果要用亞洲最便宜的……"],["賴委員士葆：對啊！我們不見得要亞洲最便宜的……"],["郭部長智輝：因為亞洲最便宜的地方牽扯到匯率、稅率，所以這個基本上不是那麼簡單就可以……"],["賴委員士葆：請問你，現在中油的累計虧損是多少？"],["郭部長智輝：什麼？"],["賴委員士葆：中油的累計虧損是多少？"],["郭部長智輝：現在中油的……你是說今年的嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：全部，累計虧損當然是指到目前為止啊！"],["郭部長智輝：今年大概是累計到800億了。"],["賴委員士葆：累計虧損六百多億啦！你都……那台電累計虧損是多少？"],["郭部長智輝：台電？"],["卓院長榮泰：4,200億。"],["賴委員士葆：台電是多少？我要強調的是在……"],["郭部長智輝：你是講總和嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：是總和啊！累積，so far到現在為止，從過去盤古開天到現在的累積虧損，你不知道嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：現在台電的累計虧損大概是4,200億。"],["賴委員士葆：是啊！你說台電要漲價，或者是補貼，你說立法院沒有給你2,000億就要漲電價、恐嚇人民，是不是中油也要來這樣一套？中油要漲價，公式不算了，因為公式沒有辦法反映成本，我們不要維持……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們在這裡對話都有一個責任，就是讓社會安心，這是並不會發生的事情，弄成這樣容易引起誤解。但我要講清楚，中油每週調整油價的那個機制不會改變，這個才是重點。"],["賴委員士葆：那我就問，中油要不要提出增資？中油要不要增資，請問部長？"],["郭部長智輝：不是啦！我們現在……"],["賴委員士葆：我就是問你這個題目。"],["郭部長智輝：油價有一個機制在那個地方運作嘛！"],["賴委員士葆：我知道油價有公式啊！"],["郭部長智輝：我們沒有要改變啊！那個是他們的決定，是按照既定的制度在進行的。"],["賴委員士葆：你們中油董事長以及工會都放砲了，說3年來政策補貼4,000億，大家覺得應該給它反映，你說丟出來讓大家討論，就變成這樣啊！"],["郭部長智輝：這個只是一個議題嘛！我想委員以前也當過教授，你也很清楚嘛！這個都是可以討論的啊！"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你這個話跟院長不一樣喔！院長跟你……"],["卓院長榮泰：一樣啊！完全一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：院長踩得很死喔！都沒有得討論，但你是說大家討論。"],["郭部長智輝：他講的是投資，並不是調整價格。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你說如果在菲律賓種綠電運回來4塊錢，有可能4塊錢嗎？不會是隨便講講的吧！你知不知菲律賓的平均電價是多少嗎？他們的電價是多少？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我是不會隨便講講的，我在大學也教書，我教研究所，怎麼可能隨便講講？我和你一樣，你也曾經在大學教過書啊！你會隨便講講嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：我當然不會隨便講講。"],["郭部長智輝：對嘛！那我怎麼可能會隨講講呢？"],["賴委員士葆：你在大學不會隨便講講，但是會來這裡隨便講講。不然你跟我講，4塊錢……菲律賓的發電成本是多少，你告訴我菲律賓多少錢？"],["郭部長智輝：各種不同的綠電，有不同……"],["賴委員士葆：approximately是多少，你跟我講，平均多少？"],["郭部長智輝：有不同的綠電……"],["賴委員士葆：平均多少？"],["郭部長智輝：我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員士葆：你沒有回答我啊！人家就修理你，大學教授、我們的經濟部長被人家這樣修理。大學教授說，菲律賓的電平均是6.3塊錢，如果有4塊錢自己用就好了，為什麼還讓臺灣用……"],["郭部長智輝：委員，你知道價格的影響變數很多嗎？不能講它現在的價格，它現在的價格根據規模……"],["賴委員士葆：你看，你現在又講到未來了啦！"],["郭部長智輝：那不一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：好啦！你不要占用我的時間喔！"],["郭部長智輝：我已經講過了，我在菲律賓的價格，4塊錢到臺灣我才可能買。"],["賴委員士葆：那就不可能買到了啊！反正就是「空喙哺舌」了……"],["郭部長智輝：怎麼會不可能？"],["賴委員士葆：他們現在就是6塊了……"],["郭部長智輝：委員有興趣的話，我可以算給你看，你有興趣的話，我可以到你辦公室跟你報告。"],["賴委員士葆：就好像這個綠電要多少錢、多少錢，你隨便講說什麼綠電有16%，根本就沒有10%，還說有16%。"],["郭部長智輝：我跟委員報告，如果不考慮土地成本、不考慮資金成本，那麼它的創電價格可以控制在3塊以下。"],["賴委員士葆：好，你先請回吧！因為我的題目很多，你不要在這裡浪費我太多時間。請一下外交部長，好嗎？"],["主席：麻煩請外交部長備詢。"],["賴委員士葆：院長，這個看好喔！外交部長林佳龍10月29日去訪問聖文森，對吧！部長。"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，對。"],["賴委員士葆：對啊！參觀了橘山生技中心（Orange Hill），我們還投入了1.3億，包括橘山生技公司，當然在聖文森，這家做什麼的？這家做大麻的，怎麼會把我們國合基金的錢拿去投資、拿去鼓勵我們的友邦做大麻？這對我們來講是毒品耶！二級毒品耶！"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，查無此事。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：查無此事。"],["賴委員士葆：事實如此。"],["林部長佳龍：查過了。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼叫查無此事？我聽不懂。"],["林部長佳龍：就是我們沒有去援助任何跟大麻有關的。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，你有沒有投資1.3億給它？"],["林部長佳龍：橘山生技是有一些很重大的農業……"],["賴委員士葆：請問你有沒有……"],["林部長佳龍：我們最主要是包括養殖、畜種……"],["賴委員士葆：國合基金有沒有投1.3億？我就問你這個，有沒有投1.3億？"],["林部長佳龍：我們……"],["賴委員士葆：有沒有投1.3億給他們？"],["林部長佳龍：查無此事，沒有涉及任何跟大麻種植有關的。"],["賴委員士葆：但是有沒有丟1.3億給它？"],["林部長佳龍：我們有協助他們，包括家畜類，還有包括果樹，但是沒有大麻。"],["賴委員士葆：院長，你要不要藉這個機會，因為我跟你講一個背景故事，請問聖文森的人口多少？"],["林部長佳龍：11萬。"],["賴委員士葆：11萬，他們的國民所得多少？"],["林部長佳龍：他們大概都1萬左右。"],["賴委員士葆：不到1萬，8,000、9,000左右。這個這麼小的國家，它主要的、很重要的出口就是表面上叫藥用的大麻，事實上是娛樂性的大麻，這是它很重要的產品輸出，當然它大麻合法化了，可是基本上來講的話，它就是裡面盛產了藥用的或者是娛樂用的大麻，大家都知道，所以你投給它，某種程度來講就間接鼓勵它做這個事情……"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，比如鳳梨的育苗，還有像馬鈴薯等等，另外就是水果，我們是提供這樣的技術協助他，有一些……"],["賴委員士葆：好，我請教卓院長……"],["林部長佳龍：所以跟大麻沒有關係。"],["賴委員士葆：你能不能在這個地方再次宣布一下，法務部也宣布過了，大麻在臺灣不可能合法化，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：大麻當然不是一個合法的……"],["賴委員士葆：不可以合法喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員士葆：不可以合法。也請外交部部長承諾，我們不會去支持或者不會去投資做大麻的任何用品以及產品的友邦任何公司，可不可以這樣講？"],["林部長佳龍：對，我們不會去投資跟大麻有關的。"],["賴委員士葆：好，部長，你講一下，大麻……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，維持外交關係當然要用很多的方法，但是我想外交部一定已經非常地謹慎，跟我們各個友邦或民主夥伴國家的合作，也一定要是合乎我們國內我們國家所需求的及法律的規定，這個無庸置疑，我們深具信心……"],["賴委員士葆：我提醒，很多國家大麻合法化了，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：要合乎我們自己的。"],["賴委員士葆：我們去投資或者我們去支持，不可以支持大麻的相關活動，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長要講什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然。"],["鄭部長銘謙：大麻是管制二級的毒品，我們現在是加強查緝。"],["賴委員士葆：二級毒品。好，兩位長官請回……"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：我們請一下國防部長。"],["主席：請國防部長備詢。"],["賴委員士葆：外交部長，你可以留著。","國防部長，現在大家最關心的題目就川賀到底誰會當選，川普已經講了兩次，說臺灣要pay for defence，就是要繳保護費，要繳保護費，pay for defence，講得非常清楚，我就請問，他講兩次要繳保護費，這次大家認為川普當選機率很高，我們是怎麼樣？直接付保護費，像韓國、日本，當地有駐軍的美軍，替他們付錢，最近漲了好幾倍哦！還是說我們增加武器的購買，還是像台積電，增加多一點的台積電去那裡設廠，哪一個？院長，你要不要講一下？還是部長要講？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想不論誰當選，國防部的立場就是我們一定要展現自我防衛的能力跟決心，我們以展現自我防衛能力的決心來讓美國能夠看得到，然後他們現在也運用各種安援的手段，包括PDA跟FMF，它也很關切我們國防的預算，所以我們的國防預算一直以來也都逐步穩定地成長……"],["賴委員士葆：你講到重點了，就是我講的，我們買了很多武器，他們有最可能的就是叫我們多買一些武器，雖然有時候它不賣，但是它只要願意賣給我們，我們就歡迎。但是我們發現到人的問題最重要，人不足，我的時間快到了，就問你這個最簡單的問題，有沒有可能給志願役加薪？志願役加薪可不可以？志願役的薪水太低，沒有人要來，所以現在只有八成五，志願役加薪可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這個我們正在研議當中，因為主要是主戰部隊的編現比比較低，所以我們在志願役的勤務加給之外，應該要針對主戰部隊的這個部分。"],["賴委員士葆：志願役加50%有沒有可能？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個要看整個財政……"],["賴委員士葆：你說正在研擬，方向是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：因為整個的調整幅度，我們必須要研議之後，還要跟相關的人事總處、主計總處進行商量，還要報行政院核定……"],["賴委員士葆：我們希望在這一屆，就是2028年選舉之前，2027年年底志願役的年薪破百萬，跟到台積電一樣年薪百萬，這樣才有辦法捍衛我們的國家。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員質詢、謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，在議場二樓旁聽來自屏東縣里港鄉族群融合協會所有的好朋友，歡迎，熱烈歡迎。","報告院會，上午的質詢到此為止，下午2點30分繼續開會，進行預算報告之質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時52分）","繼續開會（14時30分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156503","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156503","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41866b5c31bfe14ee4e3fd33acf0e4cf8be60e7bb8abb8d423fd113443f1ac9aa35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"11:20:15 - 11:35:48","影片長度":"00:15:33","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T11:20:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T11:35:48+08:00","duration":933,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.2497187499999995,"end":6.3590937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.185968750000001,"end":9.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.83409375,"end":18.239093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.06596875,"end":22.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.68534375,"end":26.507843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.997218750000002,"end":27.992843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.17846875,"end":29.157218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.42721875,"end":33.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.47284375,"end":50.132843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.689718750000004,"end":51.432218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.432218750000004,"end":52.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.71471875,"end":55.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.93409375,"end":53.440343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.87034375,"end":59.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.14409375,"end":70.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.19471875000001,"end":59.852843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.07159375,"end":64.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.61909375,"end":74.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.88846875,"end":75.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.22159375000001,"end":81.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.50784375,"end":93.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.16971875,"end":85.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.63346875,"end":86.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.32846875,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.02284375,"end":116.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.41346875,"end":122.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.91471875,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.97784375,"end":135.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.82471875000002,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.48221875000002,"end":136.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.51596875,"end":144.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.63721875000002,"end":150.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.85159375,"end":155.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.68659375000001,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.74096875,"end":197.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.05159375000002,"end":165.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.02971875,"end":197.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.45159375,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.58221875,"end":212.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.99346875,"end":213.11159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.11159375000003,"end":218.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.44909375,"end":213.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.07346875000002,"end":214.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.91659375,"end":224.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.50221875000003,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.07971875,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.63221875000002,"end":230.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.72909375,"end":234.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.72846875000002,"end":236.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.02346875,"end":237.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.91784375,"end":239.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.33534375000002,"end":242.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.92971875,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.50221875000003,"end":251.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.77221875,"end":258.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.69096875,"end":259.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.02846875,"end":261.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.49221875,"end":263.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.66909375,"end":270.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.23346875000004,"end":270.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.97596875,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.07721875000004,"end":271.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.14471875000004,"end":271.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.26284375,"end":271.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.27971875000003,"end":271.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.33034375,"end":271.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.36409375,"end":271.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.65096875,"end":271.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.66784375000003,"end":275.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.86971875,"end":276.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.05534375,"end":279.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.08909375,"end":276.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.58221875000004,"end":280.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.16846875000005,"end":282.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.38346875,"end":284.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.72909375,"end":285.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.84284375000004,"end":286.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.63596875,"end":296.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.46159375,"end":326.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.03909375,"end":329.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.27909375,"end":334.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.39659375,"end":333.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.59471875,"end":351.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.70596875,"end":368.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.46284375000005,"end":370.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.19659375000003,"end":373.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.87971875000005,"end":378.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.09409375,"end":380.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.35971875,"end":383.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.17346875000004,"end":385.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.96221875000003,"end":387.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.44721875000005,"end":388.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.88159375000004,"end":393.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.07096875,"end":423.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.23909375000005,"end":424.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.63971875000004,"end":456.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.76971875000004,"end":457.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.14096875,"end":458.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.35596875000005,"end":460.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.08971875000003,"end":464.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.20721875000004,"end":465.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.25784375,"end":465.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.32534375,"end":465.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.42659375000005,"end":465.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.56159375000004,"end":465.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.78096875000006,"end":471.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.79284375000003,"end":488.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.79846875000004,"end":493.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.54471875,"end":520.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.86096875000004,"end":493.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.87784375,"end":521.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.5359687499999,"end":523.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.6115937500001,"end":525.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.21034375,"end":528.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.4040937500001,"end":529.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.43346875,"end":562.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.94721875,"end":568.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.7859687499999,"end":572.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.47721875,"end":575.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.00846875,"end":578.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.79721875,"end":578.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.1640937500001,"end":579.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.9740937500001,"end":582.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.99471875,"end":583.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.14659375,"end":590.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.23409375,"end":591.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.34784375,"end":592.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.9678437499999,"end":612.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.01534375,"end":613.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.82534375,"end":618.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.1072187500001,"end":648.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.5203437499999,"end":658.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.42596875,"end":658.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.7422187500001,"end":660.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.0290937500001,"end":660.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.05846875,"end":661.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.09221875,"end":662.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.47596875,"end":664.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.87221875,"end":665.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.40784375,"end":667.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.7578437500001,"end":668.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.4497187500001,"end":669.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.63096875,"end":671.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.6728437500001,"end":676.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.71034375,"end":683.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.18159375,"end":683.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.85659375,"end":685.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.0378437500001,"end":685.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.96596875,"end":687.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.8897187500002,"end":690.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.3872187500001,"end":695.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.3315937500001,"end":696.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.81659375,"end":697.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.0147187500002,"end":699.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.2678437500001,"end":710.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.7722187500001,"end":710.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.82284375,"end":711.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.9365937500002,"end":712.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.0378437500001,"end":712.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.08846875,"end":713.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.7297187500001,"end":714.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.4509687500001,"end":715.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.05409375,"end":720.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.7959687500002,"end":722.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.0065937500001,"end":733.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.4522187500002,"end":736.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":736.45596875,"end":739.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.7803437500002,"end":740.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.2778437500001,"end":742.3115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.3115937500002,"end":743.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.33659375,"end":746.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.3953437499999,"end":750.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.37784375,"end":754.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.5290937500001,"end":758.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.20346875,"end":761.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.90784375,"end":788.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":788.02596875,"end":792.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":792.66659375,"end":793.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":793.98284375,"end":795.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.63659375,"end":798.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.5265937500001,"end":797.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.76284375,"end":843.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":842.19471875,"end":856.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":853.1128437500001,"end":854.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":854.3784687500001,"end":870.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":871.33784375,"end":885.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.96846875,"end":886.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":886.8290937500001,"end":891.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.3515937500001,"end":899.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":898.43909375,"end":918.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":918.9253437500001,"end":920.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":920.79846875,"end":921.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.3884687500001,"end":928.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.80534375,"end":933.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":933.9440937500001,"end":933.9609687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.095,"end":33.706,"text":"好,謝謝韓院長,請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢卓院長,對總預算副委有沒有信心,會不會擔心?擔心是有,但是一定要有信心的而且我也認為,最終還是會讓國人感受到行政立法兩院通力合作"},{"start":34.462,"end":49.81,"text":"我在上個禮拜之前是有提過跟院長問過其實你也釋出了一些善意你在禁法補償的部分你有提出了三個解方包括從基金包括從第二預備金跟最佳預算來處理院長這三個你都可以接受嘛對不對"},{"start":59.294,"end":70.183,"text":"對,那另外你有一個原則啦,就是說對於這個行政、立法要相互尊重。相互尊重的意思其實就是在於說,這幾個預算如果有增加部分一定要得到行政院的同意嘛,對不對?"},{"start":70.703,"end":92.87,"text":"要徵詢同時必須同時找出彌補資金之來源否則突然間預算會大起來會對我們整個施政的原始計畫會產生排斥這是在建立行政院立法應該相互尊重的一個機制而且是責任政治的機制嘛不然立法院毛起來一直增加預算那行政院每一個都要買單的話那這個施政怎麼施政那責任誰負"},{"start":94.377,"end":122.333,"text":"所以我想這是一個憲政的問題那我想這個原則所以這也是上次院長說過這一次用這樣的方式來處理那當然未來還是希望一定要回到憲政下的這個相互尊重所以對這一次建法補償我們也希望說如果大家有前提共識之下我們共同來尋找資金之來源那可以把這次程序完全的補正那將來大家彼此按照這樣的共識跟程序來進行以後的法律案跟預算案"},{"start":123.013,"end":134.572,"text":"所以未來照這樣的程序來走也就是說不應該在行政院不同意的狀況下硬增加預算是吧是要尊重彼方彼此之間的意見我再問一下院長那4萬跟6萬這個部分呢"},{"start":137.497,"end":150.596,"text":"進發補償4萬跟6萬的部分就是中間如果有預算還不足的部分我們就希望剛剛說的三個方式所以院長可以同意6萬但是就是用這三個解方來解然後用原住民中和發展基金這是要解決今年的問題我們願意這樣來思考"},{"start":153.2,"end":154.101,"text":"我還是要問如果最壞最壞的狀況"},{"start":175.707,"end":197.37,"text":"不通過的話,一樣不復違的話,對於整個明年度的總預算會有什麼樣的影響?我看到了影響會有2500億,其中有700億是民生的支出啦齁。我先問一下,那如果預算遲遲無法復違審查,遲遲無法通過,到了今年的會計年度前都無法通過的話,那對於軍公教條型會不會產生影響?"},{"start":198.592,"end":199.212,"text":"對,我們這是為了健全台電的"},{"start":228.12,"end":228.5,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":259.982,"end":269.428,"text":"一開始可能一月份開始沒有遇到這個問題但是總之你讓一個狀況在不穩定的情況底下持續下去大家心理上的不安焦慮就會產生"},{"start":270.285,"end":291.546,"text":"道路改善的經費104億這個會不會受到影響?地方政府包括很多地方的重要道路改善包括省道改善計畫還有很多護理人員的整備計畫還有家電的住宅家電的一個效率的提升公共公路系統運輸系統的整個永續發展都會是在相關的"},{"start":292.407,"end":292.707,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":310.981,"end":311.441,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（"},{"start":334.731,"end":355.908,"text":"這些都很急,包括前瞻也很急,甚至於包括台電的撥補也很急。台電如果不持續的進速的撥補的話,他一樣有這個電價上的一些壓力。所以我們認為這些都應該立法院進速來審議。要刪或者要怎麼樣凍結都可討論,但是全部把它卡住了,連審都不審,我認為這是立法院施予自己的職責。"},{"start":356.892,"end":357.333,"text":"對,我們對消防弟兄"},{"start":371.223,"end":386.581,"text":"不應該只說消防,最警消人員的在執行勤務上面所付出的安危代價我們一直非常非常的不捨得同心像最近內政部也提來對消防弟兄的因為最近幾個天災地變影響到他們"},{"start":387.683,"end":402.74,"text":"執行工作的安全動用第二日備金我們也同意我們這個部分我們絕對都國家是一體的啦其實是應該要整體來支持其實不只啦包括教育包括甚至醫療癌症的新藥包括甚至農民包括國家安全其實都等待這些預算"},{"start":403.721,"end":422.92,"text":"新增的部分沒有通過新增是無法動用即使是延續性的計畫你沒有確定下來的話他在使用上面有很多的一些困擾所以我們真的認為立法院應該儘速來復違把總預算來復為審查我認為這個才對得起國人對立法院對於整個政府的期待"},{"start":424.642,"end":437.557,"text":"除了這幾個列以外其實我看到還有很多沒有列在上面也很重要包括0到6歲國家養我認為這個非常重要少子化很嚴重的問題我認為包括賴總統包括左院長的團隊很重視支持我非常的贊同"},{"start":439.119,"end":462.967,"text":"三百三十五億的這樣一個經費一樣如果沒有盡快通過其實在執行上面明年度很多要執行也會遇到問題包括給這些的新的父母新生兒的父母給他們更多支持力道絕對會受到影響我們認為這個都應該盡速來通過是0到6歲國家一起養包括前瞻包括非營業特種基金加起來一共有1177億是"},{"start":465.948,"end":488.18,"text":"每個家庭都在等待跟過去一樣政策的延續或是新增的項目。下一代是我們很重要的競爭力。如果我們的不斷的掃紙話題不能夠去做的有效的解決,這是一個國家要面對問題,那我認為都不應該讓這些事情去卡住了這個國家該做的事情。這些事情我沒有看到任何人反對,幾乎朝野的立委都支持,但是總預算卡住了他就是無法來執行。"},{"start":488.86,"end":509.208,"text":"就是因為看到這樣我才覺得我們應該深有信心包括地方治水包括地方治水現在這次颱風完了很多地方治水也很急著特別是今年我們又新發現有些問題要去強化的地方治水又有159億新增的部分新增的部分就增加100億如果新增沒有通過的話它根本連動用都不能動用"},{"start":509.628,"end":525.115,"text":"所以這些全部都是國家應該要儘速來推動所以我真的也認為也期盼下午的這個副委的部分要儘速來推動所以再次問院長對於下午的總預算副委有沒有信心"},{"start":526.26,"end":551.013,"text":"我對立法院很有信心很有信心吼我們看到了各地方政府包括新竹縣長楊文科吼國民黨的一個縣長也認為期判立委他也呼籲他的兩個立委趕快來做審查我相信這是所有地方縣市政府共同期判作為父母官沒有不會想著趕快把中央經費下來趕快做事的吼每個父母官覺得是這樣不然他不會當選的吼所以我們也期盼"},{"start":551.833,"end":572.381,"text":"下午這樣的一個審查能夠這個副委能夠盡快來完成再來我想請教一下昨天才化法的部分吵得沸沸揚揚院長我看到那個才化法裡面其實有一點其實剛好看到前一個委員在關心今天的部分空污最嚴重地區院長你認為在哪邊"},{"start":573.513,"end":589.579,"text":"北中南空污最嚴重的地區在哪邊?北中南空污最嚴重的地區?最嚴重的地區。今天啊?今天,其實我告訴你好了啦,這幾天都是南部啦。南部為什麼空污最嚴重?今天,昨天是舉井,南部是舉井,然後北部是綠的。"},{"start":590.419,"end":618.203,"text":"今天黃色的台中綠色台北綠色空氣良好所以高雄其實南部高雄屏東台南都承受了這個重工業城市的很多的一些壓力那我要講的是在採劃法裡面的時候我都認為應該要多去照顧這些為國家付出跟犧牲這麼多的一些縣市他台電電力啦高雄電力是40%往中往北送"},{"start":619.601,"end":648.187,"text":"剛剛還在談要不要電廠高雄還在增加新電廠在增加新的燃力電廠即使高雄已經增加了40%電往中央、往北送高雄還是在增加電廠因為他考慮到是國家整體利益但也考慮到未來高雄產業發展需要這個才是一個大格局在思考國家的思考如果每個都只想著自己的話那什麼都好的我都要經濟發展我要、招商我要、電力建設我要但是發電我不要發電你發給我那這樣國家不會進步、城市也不會進步"},{"start":648.627,"end":658.145,"text":"那我要講的是財化法的部分昨天我看到財化法的版本國民黨版本3%直接給台北市說因為台北市是首都院長這樣公平嗎"},{"start":659.755,"end":684.789,"text":"你的看法呢長年以來就是在這種計算分配底下對財政比較好的縣市尤其是直轄市一直都有比較好的分配那對於這些財政困難的地方院長如果國民黨版本裡面直接再加3%優先分配3%全台灣這只有首都有台北市3%院長你認為這有道理嗎你同意嗎你支持嗎"},{"start":685.987,"end":713.895,"text":"我雖然在臺北市出生照道理講臺北市的建設我要重視但是我要公開的說我在立法院幾年當中我沒有為臺北市爭取過一塊錢我認為臺北市是財政是很好的他應該均衡好臺北市已經相對於其他縣市已經是天之膠質及的國家整體的資源還硬要要求3%的財政分配比例給臺北市我認為這是完全是不公平也不合理的所以我們現在會重視把臺灣整個均衡隨便舉個例子就好臺電的電廠"},{"start":716.087,"end":743.093,"text":"高雄、興達、南部火力發電廠、大陵電廠兩個在我的選區內總公司設在台北台北佔盡了這個優勢工廠在高雄、污染在高雄而稅收是在台北的光佔了這麼多優勢都還沒有算這筆帳的現在還要求國會的多數的國民黨要求把財政收入範圍3%交給台北市院長這樣有道理嗎?你同意嗎?你支持嗎?"},{"start":744.366,"end":758.316,"text":"如果從整體軍人台灣的角度來看確實是應該要檢討但這個制度長久以來存在那我們過去的幾年以及現在我們是希望用其他方式把需要的地方我們用統籌分配稅款的方式或其他的方式能夠把它拉高"},{"start":759.646,"end":788.133,"text":"我希望在院長這個你的任內應該要全力的去均衡全台的一個發展全台發展那不要特別是全部過度集中在台北絕對不是好事包括人口過度集中造成的各項的問題絕對不是好事包括房價高漲、交通塞車絕對不是好事那如果能夠全台均衡發展不要讓人一定要到台北才有好的機會我認為那才是一個健全的台灣跟一個成熟的台灣"},{"start":788.473,"end":809.041,"text":"除了一般的補助之外,其實我最想做的是把那些財政能力差的縣市如何把它補救回來,讓它能夠有更好的競爭力所以我認為有很多調配的工作其實是要由中央來做啦,你把錢全部丟到地方去,那很多是需要大筆的資源,甚至統合性的工作,跨縣市的工作,那誰來做?"},{"start":810.241,"end":832.316,"text":"所以我覺得這個絕對不是一個好方式就像以前那個縣市很多時候以前沒有執強室以前很多鄉鎮每個各做各的每個鄉鎮各做各的結果反倒不整合就後來反倒是由中央整體來做之後比如執強室來做之後它反而可以達到整個更好的一個效果我也希望財政收入劃分法朝野要大家要有耐性做一個好的處理"},{"start":833.362,"end":853.08,"text":"每個黨都有可能成為執政黨每個黨也都有可能成為國會的多數黨如果一直這樣搞的話國家永無寧日我認為對國家長遠發展絕對是壞事院長能不能這樣看法為了我們區域性的治理比如說桃竹苗、中章投雲、嘉南、高屏、花東、北北基等等這個根本更不可能是單一縣市可以自己完成"},{"start":853.34,"end":853.76,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":871.266,"end":871.866,"text":"委員上司也跟我提過"},{"start":893.217,"end":893.817,"text":"我們會請陳進德政委整理好資料"},{"start":925.464,"end":926.726,"text":"謝謝賴瑞隆委員質詢。謝謝卓院長、部會首長的備詢。報告現在在議場二樓旁聽的是"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":803,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（11時20分）謝謝韓院長，請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：卓院長，對總預算付委有沒有信心？會不會擔心？"],["卓院長榮泰：擔心是有，但是一定要有信心，而且我也認為最終還是會讓國人感受到行政、立法兩院通力合作。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我在上個禮拜之前是有提過、跟院長問過，其實你也釋出一些善意，你在禁伐補償的部分有提出3個解方，包括從基金、包括從第二預備金跟追加預算來處理，院長，這3個方式你都可以接受嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：也要大院能夠接受。"],["賴委員瑞隆：就是你同意，如果立法院這邊也同意，其實就解了嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，但是前面那幾個原則性的問題，大家要有共識。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，另外你有一個原則，就是行政、立法要相互尊重。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：相互尊重的意思其實就是在於，這個預算如果有增加的部分，一定要得到行政院的同意，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：要徵詢，同時必須找出彌補資金之來源。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：否則突然間預算大起來，對我們整個施政的原始計畫會產生排擠……"],["賴委員瑞隆：這是在建立行政跟立法應該相互尊重的一個機制。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，沒有錯。"],["賴委員瑞隆：而且也是責任政治的機制，不然立法院卯起來一直增加預算，行政院每一個都要買單的話，那這個施政怎麼施政？那責任誰負？所以我想這是一個憲政的問題，我想這個原則確實……所以這也是上次院長說過，這次用這樣的方式來處理，當然未來還是希望一定要回到憲政下的相互尊重。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以對於這次的禁伐補償，我們也希望如果大家有前提、共識之下，我們共同來尋找資金之來源，可以把這次的程序完全地補正，將來大家彼此按照這樣的共識跟程序來進行以後的法律案跟預算案。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以未來照這樣的程序來走，也就是不應該在行政院不同意的狀況下硬增加預算，是吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，要尊重彼此之間的意見。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我再問一下院長，那4萬跟6萬這個部分呢？就是禁伐補償4萬跟6萬的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是中間如果有預算還不足的部分，我們就希望剛剛說的3個方式……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以院長可以同意6萬，但是就是用這3個解方來解，用原住民族綜合發展基金或者……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是要解決今年的問題，我們願意這樣來思考，就是前提、原則要先確立。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我想這也是院長釋出一個很大的善意，就是等於你也同意用這樣的方式來處理，那我們也期盼在今天下午的時候，這樣的總預算能夠順利地付委。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，非常期待。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為國人期待很久，包括我看很多的縣市政府也很急。我還是要問，如果最壞、最壞的狀況，不通過的話，一樣不付委的話，對於整個明年度的總預算會有什麼樣的影響？我看到的影響會有2,500億，其中有700億是民生的支出。我先問一下，如果預算遲遲無法付委審查，遲遲無法通過，到了今年的會計年度前都無法通過的話，對於軍公教調薪會不會產生影響？"],["卓院長榮泰：軍公教調薪272億當中有50億是由地方政府來編，有90億是中央政府編的然後補助給地方，將來預算如果沒有及時來完成，那勢必會拖延。"],["賴委員瑞隆：會拖延啦！有可能最後還是通過，還是有可能給，但是會拖延到。那教育的部分，公私立學校一些電費優惠的部分會不會影響到？"],["卓院長榮泰：為了健全台電的財務，我們希望以前的補貼政策各目的事業主管機關能夠有所因應，所以會回到目的事業主管機關去編列，這個部分可能對於將來在用電上或是電費收取上會造成彼此之間很多的不便。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為電費的關係，我們還適度做了一些調整，在調整之後，我們希望不要影響到學校，會給它補貼，如果預算沒有通過的話，學校沒有辦法拿到這個補貼，在用電上面一定會吃緊，因為他們並不清楚到底能不能……當然電就要省著用。"],["卓院長榮泰：一開始，可能1月份開始沒有遇到這個問題，但是總之，你讓一個狀況在不穩定的情況底下持續下去，大家心理上的不安、焦慮就會產生。"],["賴委員瑞隆：道路改善的經費104億，這個會不會受到影響？地方政府包括很多地方的重要道路的改善。"],["卓院長榮泰：包括省道改善計畫，還有很多護理人員的整備計畫，還有住宅家電效率的提升、公共公路系統、運輸系統的整個永續發展，都會是在相關補助給地方的676億當中。"],["賴委員瑞隆：特別是今年度幾個颱風都對臺灣產生相當大的影響，不管是豪雨或者是風，對於整個道路的影響，其實很多都需要，這個都有可能會產生影響，所以我們希望總預算要儘快審查，不要讓這些基礎建設受到影響，每拖延都有可能影響到它未來的發包、未來的完工時間，對於地方都會更加地辛苦，所以我們希望立法院應該儘速進行審議，讓總預算能夠進行。"],["卓院長榮泰：另外一個重點就是前瞻基礎建設第五期的703億，前四期的執行，地方都非常非常地需要，我們也希望趕快把它落實。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這些都很急，包括前瞻很急，甚至於包括台電的撥補也很急，台電如果不持續儘速撥補的話，它一樣有電價上的一些壓力，所以我們認為這些都應該讓立法院儘速審議，要刪或者要怎麼樣凍結都可討論，但是全部把它卡住了，連審都不審，我認為這是立法院失於自己的職責。","再來我請教，我看到消防的部分也影響到了，消防的部分有11億的安全預算，這幾年我看消防人員確實是出生入死，所以這個部分也應該給予更多的支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我們對消防弟兄，不應該只說消防，而是對警消人員在執行勤務上面所付出的安危代價，我們一直非常非常地不捨，像最近內政部也提出對消防弟兄，因為最近幾個天災地變影響到他們執行工作的安全，動用第二預備金，我們也同意，這個部分絕對一日都不能延誤。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我覺得國家是一體的，應該要整體來支持，其實不止，包括教育、甚至包括醫療癌症的新藥、包括農民、包括國家安全，其實都等待這些預算，新增的部分沒有通過，新增是無法動用，即使是延續性的計畫，沒有確定下來的話，它在使用上面有很多的困擾。所以我們真的認為立法院應該儘速付委，把總預算付委審查，我認為這個才對得起國人對於立法院、對於整個政府的期待。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，也請委員大力地支持。"],["賴委員瑞隆：除了這幾個之外，其實我看到還有很多沒有列在上面的也很重要，包括零到六歲國家養，我認為這個非常重要，少子化是很嚴重的問題，包括賴總統、包括卓院長的團隊很重視、支持，我非常地贊同，335億的經費，一樣，如果沒有儘快通過，其實在執行上面，明年度很多要執行的也會遇到問題，包括給這些新生兒的父母更多的支持，力道絕對會受到影響，我們認為這個都應該儘速來通過。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，零到六歲國家一起養，包括前瞻、包括非營業特種基金，加起來一共有1,177億，每個家庭都在等待跟過去一樣政策的延續，或是新增的項目，這個我們希望能夠……"],["賴委員瑞隆：下一代是我們很重要的競爭力，如果我們不斷的少子化問題不能夠去做有效的解決，這是一個國家要面對的問題，我認為都不應該讓這些事情去卡住這個國家該做的事情，這件事情我沒有看到任何人反對，幾乎朝野的立委都支持，但是總預算卡住了，它就是無法執行。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是因為看到這樣，我才覺得我們應該深有信心，抱持樂觀。"],["賴委員瑞隆：包括地方治水，這次颱風完了，很多地方治水也很急，特別是今年我們又新發現有些問題要去強化，地方治水也有159億。"],["卓院長榮泰：新增的部分。"],["賴委員瑞隆：新增的部分就增加159億，如果新增的沒有通過的話，它根本連動用都不能動用，這些全部都是國家應該要儘速來推動，所以我真的也認為、也期盼下午付委的部分要儘速來推動。再次問院長，對於下午的總預算付委有沒有信心？"],["卓院長榮泰：我對立法院很有信心。"],["賴委員瑞隆：很有信心！我們看到了各地方政府，包括新竹縣長楊文科──國民黨的一個縣長，也期盼立委，他也呼籲他的兩個立委趕快審查，我相信這是所有地方縣市政府共同期盼的，作為父母官，沒有不會想著趕快讓中央經費下來，趕快做事的，每個父母官絕對是這樣，不然他不會當選，所以我們也期盼下午的審查付委能夠儘快完成，也期待。","再來我想請教一下，昨天財劃法的部分吵得沸沸揚揚，院長，我看到那個財劃法裡面其實有一點，剛剛看到前一個委員在關心，今天空污最嚴重的地區，院長，你認為在哪邊？北、中、南空污最嚴重的地區在哪邊？"],["卓院長榮泰：北、中、南空污最嚴重的地區？"],["賴委員瑞隆：最嚴重的地區。"],["卓院長榮泰：今天喔？"],["賴委員瑞隆：今天！其實我告訴你好了，這幾天都是南部，南部為什麼空汙最嚴重？昨天南部是橘警，北部是綠的，今天黃色的，臺中綠色，臺北綠色，空氣良好，所以南部，高雄、屏東、臺南都承受了重工業城市很多的一些壓力，那我要講的是，我都認為財劃法應該要多去照顧這些為國家付出跟犧牲這麼多的縣市，台電，電力啦！高雄的電力是40%往中、往北送，剛剛還在談要不要增加電廠，高雄還在增加新的燃煤電廠，即使高雄已經增加40%的電往中、往北送，高雄還是在增加電廠，因為考慮到國家整體利益，當然也考慮未來高雄產業發展需要，這個才是一個大格局在思考國家的思維，如果每個人只想自己的話，好的我都要，經濟發展我要、招商我要，便利、建設我要，但是發電我不要，發電你發給我，這樣國家不會進步，城市也不會進步。我要講的是，昨天我看到財劃法的版本，國民黨的版本，3%直接給臺北市，說因為臺北市是首都，院長，這樣公平嗎？您的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：長年以來就是在這種計算分配底下，對財政比較好的縣市，尤其是直轄市一直都有比較好的分配，對於這些財政困難的地方……"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長，如果國民黨版本直接再加3%，優先分配3%，全臺灣只有首都有，臺北市3%，院長您認為這樣有道理嗎？同意嗎？您支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我雖然在臺北市出生，照道理講臺北市的建設我要重視，但是我要公開來說，我在立法院幾年當中，我沒有為臺北市爭取過一塊錢，我認為臺北市是財政是很好的，它應該均衡……"],["賴委員瑞隆：臺北市相對於其他縣市已經是天之驕子了，集國家整體的資源，還硬要要求3%的財政分配比率要給臺北市，我認為這完全是不公平，也是不合理的。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們現在會重視把臺灣整個均衡……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我跟您舉個例子就好，台電的電廠，高雄興達、南部火力發電廠、大林電廠，兩個在我選區內，總公司設置在臺北，臺北佔盡優勢，工廠在高雄、汙染在高雄，稅收都在臺北，光佔這麼多優勢，都還沒有算這筆帳了，現在國會多數的國民黨還要求把財劃法3%交給臺北市，院長，這樣有道理嗎？你同意嗎？你支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果從整體均衡臺灣的角度來看，確實是應該要檢討，但這個制度長久以來存在，過去的幾年以及現在，我們是希望用其他方式，用統籌分配稅款或其他的方式能夠把需要的地方拉高，讓臺灣各個縣市能夠比較均衡……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望在院長的任內，應該全力去均衡全臺的發展，不要過度集中在臺北，絕對不是好事，包括人口過度集中造成的各項問題，包括房價的高漲、交通塞車，絕對不是好事，如果能讓全臺均衡發展，不要讓人一定要到臺北才有好的機會，我認為這才是一個健全的臺灣跟一個成熟的臺灣。"],["卓院長榮泰：除了一般的補助之外，其實我最想做的，是把那些財政能力差的縣市，如何把它補救回來，讓它能夠有更好的競爭力，這才是該做的事。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以我也認為有很多調配的工作其實是要由中央來做，你把錢全部丟到地方去，那很多是需要大筆的資源，甚至統合性的工作、跨縣市的工作，那誰來做？所以我覺得這個絕對不是一個好方式。就像以前縣市，在沒有直轄市以前的很多鄉鎮，每個鄉鎮各做各的，不整合，後來反倒是中央整體來做之後，譬如直轄市來做之後，反而能達到更好的效果，我也希望財政收支劃分法朝野要有耐性做個好的處理。每個黨都有可能成為執政黨，每個黨也都有可能成為國會的多數黨，如果一直這樣搞的話，國家永無寧日，我認為對國家長遠發展絕對是壞事，院長，同意這樣的看法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：未來我們區域性的治理，譬如桃、竹、苗、中、彰、投、雲、嘉南、高屏、花東、北北基等等，這個根本更不可能是單一縣市可以自己單獨完成的……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我也希望院長可以持續地重視，特別是南臺灣的部分核心，我也希望能持續重視，不要讓南部優秀子弟、人才往北才是好的機會，我希望有一天這樣的問題能夠得到更大的緩解。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來最後一點時間，8年前的時候，林全院長到了大林蒲去，為了過去的遷村，就是對空氣汙染，代表政府來跟所有的鄉親們道歉，同時也承諾來進行遷村，來改善相關事宜，院長可不可以邀請你到大林蒲來跟鄉親們聊聊，聽聽鄉親們的心聲？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，委員上次也跟我提過，我相信下禮拜之後我應該有比較充裕的時間，可以有更多時間到各地去走走看看，瞭解問題、解決問題。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我認為院長的身段相當柔軟，也相當有智慧，我也希望你到地方去之後，聽聽大家的聲音，也讓大林蒲的人知道院長包括現在的團隊非常重視這樣的問題，現在不管是遷村的進度，不管是從環評到一些相關的措施，甚至於社宅的部分都卡住了，我希望院長來重視、來處理好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們會請陳金德政委整理好資料以後，我們再去跟……"],["賴委員瑞隆：安排個時間下來看看。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴瑞隆委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是公民監督國會聯盟、美國國際民主協會、英國西敏寺民主基金會、澳洲、阿根廷、泰國、印尼等各地的學者專家，我們在此熱烈歡迎，Welcome,ladies and gentlemen.","再接下來請登記24號賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156502","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156502","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41b12f06f5057f2459e3fd33acf0e4cf8be60e7bb8abb8d4230cd442c3dfdba8065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:03:10 - 11:20:05","影片長度":"00:16:55","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T11:03:10+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T11:20:05+08:00","duration":1015,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.6890937500000001,"end":3.2878437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.4734687500000003,"end":5.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.5578437500000004,"end":5.2115937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.287218750000001,"end":8.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.67909375,"end":12.349718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.68721875,"end":13.227218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.227218750000002,"end":13.277843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.395968750000002,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.63971875,"end":20.297843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.85471875,"end":22.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.52534375,"end":23.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.453468750000003,"end":32.852843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.392843750000004,"end":35.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.32909375,"end":40.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.73346875,"end":42.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":43.46721875,"end":43.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.564093750000005,"end":46.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.875968750000006,"end":53.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":51.010343750000004,"end":51.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":52.02284375,"end":58.080968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.367843750000006,"end":59.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.81909375,"end":59.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":59.88659375,"end":59.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.90346875,"end":59.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":59.92034375,"end":61.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.034093750000004,"end":72.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.81284375,"end":76.66034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.84596875000001,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.07721875,"end":82.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.47784375,"end":85.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.25409375000001,"end":84.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.09346875,"end":87.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.52784375,"end":88.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.94534375,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.01284375,"end":90.19409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.21471875,"end":94.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.58596875,"end":93.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.07534375,"end":98.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.15909375000001,"end":102.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.61409375000001,"end":112.50284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.08096875000001,"end":116.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.12721875000001,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.36721875,"end":116.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.97471875000001,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.98284375,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.10096875,"end":119.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.97409375000001,"end":126.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.55971875,"end":127.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.26409375,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.23846875,"end":134.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.21659375000002,"end":136.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.58346875,"end":137.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.13596875000002,"end":143.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":144.10971875,"end":145.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.70846875,"end":148.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.13846875000002,"end":151.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.64846875,"end":155.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.82096875000002,"end":157.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.01909375,"end":157.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.31846875000002,"end":164.71409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.39409375,"end":170.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.31221875,"end":175.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.76721875,"end":176.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.21846875,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.01909375000002,"end":188.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.55846875,"end":193.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.45221875000001,"end":198.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.32471875000002,"end":200.45534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.23159375,"end":202.56471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.15534375000001,"end":203.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.85971875,"end":210.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.61409375000002,"end":217.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.00534375,"end":218.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.14034375000003,"end":218.57909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.57909375000003,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.96721875,"end":223.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.20346875,"end":219.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.15659375,"end":222.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.01721875,"end":226.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.91534375,"end":227.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.31596875000002,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.03284375,"end":231.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.43784375,"end":233.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.24721875,"end":238.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.44971875000002,"end":236.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.68159375000002,"end":238.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.79534375000003,"end":238.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.31846875000002,"end":241.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.33534375000002,"end":242.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.94659375,"end":249.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.29159375,"end":250.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.94534375,"end":254.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.13034375,"end":264.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.52971875000003,"end":270.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.76909375,"end":275.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.96659375,"end":277.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.53596875,"end":279.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.15596875,"end":281.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.65784375000004,"end":283.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.13846875,"end":285.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.82596875,"end":287.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.32784375,"end":287.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.34471875,"end":293.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.36159375,"end":292.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.99346875000003,"end":296.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.41909375,"end":299.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.23721875,"end":302.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.76846875,"end":317.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":318.05721875,"end":319.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":319.79534375000003,"end":322.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.17471875,"end":322.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.96784375000004,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":323.15346875,"end":339.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.19346875,"end":345.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":346.59284375000004,"end":349.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":349.76534375,"end":350.28846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":350.62596875,"end":351.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":351.97596875000005,"end":355.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.50284375,"end":368.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.02846875,"end":371.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.53409375,"end":373.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.05284375,"end":373.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.84596875,"end":373.87971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.40284375000005,"end":374.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.43221875,"end":376.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.91721875,"end":378.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.55346875000004,"end":383.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.73471875,"end":384.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":385.20284375,"end":385.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":388.52721875000003,"end":389.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.83034375,"end":408.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":409.11471875,"end":415.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.05034375,"end":424.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.42034375000003,"end":436.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.57034375,"end":452.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.28096875000006,"end":460.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.38096875,"end":471.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.10909375000006,"end":488.14034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.34284375000004,"end":501.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":501.65721875,"end":511.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.13659375,"end":515.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.98409375,"end":521.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":522.0759687500001,"end":524.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.26971875,"end":536.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":536.8247187500001,"end":537.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":538.00596875,"end":539.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":539.42346875,"end":542.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":542.83221875,"end":543.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":544.08096875,"end":550.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.0378437500001,"end":560.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.51721875,"end":568.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":569.0390937500001,"end":569.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.54096875,"end":576.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.01721875,"end":575.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":575.7890937500001,"end":590.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.28534375,"end":589.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.5672187499999,"end":594.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":595.4822187500001,"end":605.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.4990937499999,"end":602.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.21909375,"end":605.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.97846875,"end":610.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":607.9865937500001,"end":621.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.00721875,"end":611.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.09409375,"end":622.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.97159375,"end":627.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":627.15659375,"end":628.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.9284687500001,"end":635.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":628.9622187500001,"end":642.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.45909375,"end":635.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.25159375,"end":647.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.17034375,"end":647.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.42346875,"end":648.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.01409375,"end":663.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.0984687499999,"end":648.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.5222187500001,"end":663.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.8259687500001,"end":663.8428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.8428437500002,"end":663.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.87659375,"end":663.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.9272187500001,"end":668.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.2478437500001,"end":665.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.1753437500001,"end":674.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":669.1922187499999,"end":670.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":671.74034375,"end":673.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":674.0690937500001,"end":674.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.72721875,"end":675.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":675.03096875,"end":680.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.0390937500001,"end":677.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.4440937500001,"end":678.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":681.05534375,"end":686.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.19784375,"end":695.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.5053437500001,"end":691.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":696.3272187500002,"end":696.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":700.2253437500001,"end":701.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":702.6384687500001,"end":704.3428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.81971875,"end":710.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.07221875,"end":709.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":709.1184687500001,"end":710.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.8015937499999,"end":712.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.3115937500002,"end":715.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.91909375,"end":715.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":717.3703437500001,"end":717.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":720.54284375,"end":721.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.53846875,"end":722.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":722.7703437499999,"end":723.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":724.6940937500001,"end":727.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":730.38096875,"end":730.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.41034375,"end":733.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.33409375,"end":743.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":744.48846875,"end":746.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":747.6272187500001,"end":749.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":749.5847187500001,"end":749.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":750.12471875,"end":755.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":752.16659375,"end":753.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":756.01409375,"end":762.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":760.8403437500001,"end":768.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":762.8315937500001,"end":762.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":762.9328437500001,"end":763.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":763.3884687500001,"end":763.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":769.24409375,"end":771.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.32846875,"end":771.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.8090937500001,"end":773.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":774.57659375,"end":775.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":775.84221875,"end":778.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.35659375,"end":779.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.79096875,"end":782.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":782.32221875,"end":786.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":787.33409375,"end":789.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":789.02159375,"end":790.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":790.3884687500001,"end":790.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":791.45159375,"end":793.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.9409687500001,"end":795.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":797.5265937500001,"end":798.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":798.5053437500001,"end":799.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":800.58096875,"end":801.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.54284375,"end":802.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":802.6397187500002,"end":803.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":804.6984687500001,"end":807.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.76971875,"end":808.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":809.54159375,"end":810.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":811.27971875,"end":812.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":812.4609687500001,"end":815.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.51159375,"end":813.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.8359687500001,"end":817.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":817.6753437500001,"end":818.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":818.97471875,"end":819.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":819.9028437500001,"end":820.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":821.9953437500001,"end":822.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":823.5478437500001,"end":824.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":825.5559687500001,"end":826.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":826.73721875,"end":830.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":830.97284375,"end":832.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.81659375,"end":831.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.9853437500001,"end":832.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":833.21721875,"end":834.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.73159375,"end":836.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":836.7609687500001,"end":837.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":838.6172187500001,"end":839.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":839.5959687500001,"end":842.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.32971875,"end":842.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.76846875,"end":846.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.85221875,"end":849.1303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":849.09659375,"end":852.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":853.3659687500001,"end":855.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":855.44159375,"end":858.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":858.52971875,"end":863.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":863.9465937500001,"end":869.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":869.8359687500001,"end":870.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":871.5403437500001,"end":877.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":878.35784375,"end":885.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":886.1709687500002,"end":886.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":887.0990937500001,"end":888.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":888.90471875,"end":890.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":890.44034375,"end":898.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":893.3259687500001,"end":906.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":906.9440937500001,"end":909.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":910.11659375,"end":911.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":912.49596875,"end":918.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":918.67221875,"end":945.3853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.58784375,"end":945.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":945.70596875,"end":951.2915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.84096875,"end":946.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":966.7490937500002,"end":967.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":967.5759687500001,"end":971.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":971.8115937500002,"end":975.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":976.3172187500002,"end":978.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":976.6884687500001,"end":981.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":982.4597187500001,"end":984.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":984.0290937500001,"end":1002.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1002.5747187500001,"end":1002.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1002.6084687500002,"end":1005.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1005.49409375,"end":1005.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1005.7978437500001,"end":1009.7803437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.734,"end":4.936,"text":"羅委員再請哪一位部長?衛福部麻煩請衛福部部長備選羅委員好"},{"start":20.882,"end":41.818,"text":"院長好 院長 坦白講 表現得這麼差違法任用人士 還違法進口輸出液 中火增加煙囪管 荼毒台中人這樣子總預算你覺得會過嗎 到現在還敢抗中保台出征劉德華 你覺得總預算會過嗎"},{"start":43.456,"end":49.02,"text":"來,院長我跟你說齁就不符合資格任用的靈性副審查員我們繼續我跟你沒完沒了10月23號衛福部高調的回答入取者雖然資格不符"},{"start":72.879,"end":84.597,"text":"所以有多年的國會經驗他們需要尊重誘人單位是以計畫、經費、聘用、約用人員現在部長你有沒有請他離開"},{"start":86.341,"end":112.171,"text":"我沒有請他離開他走了嗎我跟你講我針對的是整個通案不是個案你們在媒體面前高姿態的告訴大家資格不符國會經驗需要現在你跟我講你私底下請他走怎麼了"},{"start":112.671,"end":115.152,"text":"現在整個衛福部啊就是胡作非為整個食藥署的人事約用經費就有4.7億"},{"start":135.236,"end":151.072,"text":"整個政府我可以大膽的評估啊約用人員數十億的金額就給你們這樣子包庇人事案食藥署之花去酒店兼差沒有背景馬上被懲處現在這個零星副審查員拖這麼久你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":158.482,"end":160.485,"text":"我們都按照程序來處理齁,那不當的監視,就馬上開場,馬上開機會。"},{"start":171.38,"end":198.349,"text":"整個資格任用的過程就是違法任用我要告訴你請院長承諾調查整個政府總預算約用人員有沒有類似這樣子的案件你這個有可能就違反到了使公務人員登載不實資格不符還硬要任用牽拖國會經驗這個事情我不是針對個案是整個政府人事的預算案"},{"start":199.369,"end":199.649,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．羅廷瑋"},{"start":218.018,"end":229.108,"text":"所以我再問一句,部長要不要道歉?你不願意道歉,你現在請這個人士要走人,你幹嘛請他走?不是沒有錯嗎?人民的血汗錢被你這樣子花?"},{"start":236.574,"end":254.269,"text":"二、我不跟你談這個。行政單位的表現爛到爆有多爛?我們看看,針對三件食藥署的人事案本席發文給人總、法務部、廉政署竟然副本我也給了院長室,得到的回函是什麼?"},{"start":255.168,"end":282.656,"text":"是希望上級單位作為第三方人總的法務部廉政署能夠督導食藥署衛福部結果咧回文給我人總竟然說他們已經發文給衛福部請衛福部自己調查處理你的調查處理這樣子合適嗎自己調查自己我的天啊你們的行政你們的表現人民可以接受嗎"},{"start":284.121,"end":285.022,"text":"我們一切都會按規定來用人。"},{"start":297.612,"end":317.194,"text":"這些人事案不是昨天才發生耶!歷經了數年耶!是我們點出來才處理!到現在還說自己調查自己!我希望院長立刻撤換食藥署人事室主任、政風室主任、要求人總法務部五天內給我們一個相關調查報告!院長可以承諾嗎?"},{"start":318.297,"end":345.678,"text":"委員已經是第三次提出類似的案子剛剛聽邱部長的答詢他是說這個任用資格有問題的這位同仁他現在按照勞基法的規定在處理如果按照勞基法的規定他應該有一定的時間但是我希望部長把時間講出來我還是剛剛那一句資格不符為先如果沒有錯不應該請人走你現在請人家走就代表你有錯你又不願意道歉"},{"start":347,"end":354.146,"text":"這件事情我們後續再追我們繼續來院長針對輸出疫的現在的狀況我們政策有五點需求是整個本土藥廠一直在發生的院長你自行看一下PDT對不起羅委員時間暫停那其他部長請回"},{"start":371.673,"end":374.957,"text":"時間還在走不好意思時間還在走剛剛院長說時間暫停待會要還我15秒好院長可以開始了嗎"},{"start":393.221,"end":415.046,"text":"針對整個輸出區,現在本土藥廠有五點需求。我簡單講一下,為了配合政府的政策補足輸出溢現在的缺口,因此嚴重加班,超時召勞工局來積查、罰款、祭典。藥廠配合現在的政府政策,但是卻沒有得到政府的幫助。"},{"start":416.089,"end":436.129,"text":"被罰、被祭奠是藥廠自己的問題,誰願意配合?輸出役如果最後沒辦法補足缺口,最後人民受害。有產能但能力不足,是不是藥廠不斷地在發生能夠比照所謂的過往國家隊,能夠讓替代或高階能力能夠投入藥廠生產增加產能?"},{"start":436.85,"end":455.837,"text":"三、配合生產250毫升、1000毫升其他生理實驗水的規格、其他的容量沒辦法生產,被醫院開罰、重罰。食藥署到現在沒辦法溝通協調,只是道德勸說醫院不要罰。配合政府政策,前提都是配合政府。"},{"start":456.797,"end":463.083,"text":"誰願意做人民最後受害。這樣子的表現我在這邊發聲建保署8月15新聞稿就有說過為鼓勵國內業者增產10月1號調漲輸出億支付價最高27%"},{"start":472.182,"end":499.912,"text":"院長您知道嗎這是參考10年前藥品支付標準的上限價來訂定的10年的波動整個物價大家都有感這種條幅完全無法滿足廠商的基本需求我現在在講的是基本需求連要謀生都不行了怎麼去配合政府最後沒有輸出益人民受害只是回到原先10年前的一個核價專案進口可以用高價格擠付"},{"start":501.633,"end":503.054,"text":"所以我希望建保署以平時的價格"},{"start":516.041,"end":536.48,"text":"能夠去兩到三倍進口輸出役,這樣子圖利所謂的進口,為什麼不能夠照顧本土廠?所以今天我要在這邊講,希望院長能夠邀集各部會,聽取業者的困難,邀集各部會一起協助衛福部處理輸出役缺口的問題,院長可以答應我嗎?"},{"start":537.04,"end":540.521,"text":"最後我要跟你講這個簽購採購案是誰核准的我想請問一下就食藥署5月13日啟動公開徵求專案輸入"},{"start":560.606,"end":585.717,"text":"我有去詢問過,生理食鹽水有無依據政府採購公開徵求採購若沒有,法律依據是什麼?可不可以回答?來!抓到了!食藥署供應平台你現在在吸藥供應資訊平台重點生理食鹽水就是非必要的藥品所以藥事法第27條之二"},{"start":589.178,"end":594.388,"text":"根本不能使用你還在胡扯為什麼你一直要胡扯"},{"start":596.307,"end":620.066,"text":"藥事法27條之二不是用於生理食鹽水,生理食鹽水是非必要藥品,這是你們開記者會說的。所以又是類推適用嗎?所以又是類推適用,上次我就問你了,你問我,你回答我說類推適用,你引用是藥事法,62條有漏洞,有漏洞嗎?"},{"start":622.133,"end":630.354,"text":"有漏洞嗎?所以又變了嘛27條之二我就跟你講了那你就不要開記者會告訴大家生理食鹽水非必要藥品現在又在用藥事法27條之二自己打臉你的臉不痛嗎?違法的專案"},{"start":650.879,"end":665.797,"text":"說入的核准函這筆錢怎麼付?全民買單嗎?總預算編列這樣子?對嗎?說得過去嗎?我上次問你的用生理食鹽水要用消保法處理了沒?還在創保護公司喔?"},{"start":669.221,"end":674.202,"text":"我就是衝著你這句話如果發生了人民任何的問題我就看衛福部要不要幫忙協助所有的事情都是在維護國人的健康這就是我們作為民意代表應該要做的問題是"},{"start":700.253,"end":726.983,"text":"我要邀請陳世凱部長還有林佳龍部長請上來請交通部長還有經濟、交通部長、外交部部長、林佳龍部長請回衛福部邱部長請回彭部長彭部長已有你的事啊、中火啊你怎麼可以不上來還是沒有環境部了是空汙汙染部"},{"start":731.468,"end":746.536,"text":"院長,我就簡單請問你一個問題。中火現在二期燃氣的環評,在兩個月內火速通過出審,環評大會不理地方政府還有現在環團的意見,現在煙囪管會不會增加?"},{"start":747.697,"end":773.342,"text":"最終煙囪管會不會增加?煙囪管會不會增加?未來到2035年它只會有6部燃氣機組在正常運作還有咧?6部燃煤機組備而不用!中火的5根煙囪管要變6根!這就是事實!你旁邊的就是所謂的污染護航部"},{"start":774.605,"end":803.512,"text":"我要告訴大家在你旁邊的林佳龍部長在105年擔任台中市市長的時候他非常棒他非常有勇氣他通過了台中市生美管制條例107年你們將通過法修惡限所有地方政府為民服務為民把關的權利後面呢你把生美管制條例直接作廢你對得起台中人嗎"},{"start":804.741,"end":824.327,"text":"到現在為止我們看到了中火有可能火力全開藍棲藍莓基礎只增不減王美花、蔡英文時期答應增一、拆一現在呢跳票做不到我請問院長你對得起台中人嗎?"},{"start":825.575,"end":837.202,"text":"代表台中人我們真的想要爭取自己的身體健康有這麼難嗎?你旁邊的都是台中人林佳龍部長 台中人陳世凱部長 台中人"},{"start":838.783,"end":857.726,"text":"陳部長我想請問你作為台中人你作何感想我在乎的是減煤跟減碳如果可以做到減煤跟減碳我覺得身為台中人是可以接受的所有的台中人都支持蒸汽減煤這是最重要的前提我們都支持沒有人反對蒸汽減煤"},{"start":858.607,"end":883.657,"text":"但現在看到的是爭完氣以後你們所謂的備而不用環境部開了這個記者會裡面很清楚的顯示不是為了國安不是為了戰爭而是有可能小老鼠有可能松鼠、蛇造成的跳電我們就要火力全開你自己也承認晚上的時候火力發電高達95%以上院長"},{"start":886.198,"end":894,"text":"火力發電有沒有高達95%以上?所以院長承認了,當全國火力全開的時候,臺中人就是用肺癌發電!臺中市的衛生局提供的資料,肺癌是屬於很高致癌的癌症別。"},{"start":912.58,"end":933.365,"text":"所有全體的國人拿出你的帳單,看看你的帳單最近有沒有有感。臺電的帳單越來越多,一手拿著你的財產,一手拿著你的生命。我要告訴現在的行政院,我們不排除所有的抗爭,空污法107年修了,我們要把它修回來。"},{"start":934.105,"end":946.595,"text":"我們要還權於民,還權於地方,我們要讓地方政府有權捍衛台中市所有國人的身體健康,我們一定會全力以赴。"},{"start":966.806,"end":971.893,"text":"我會要求台電把每一年的狀況算出來告訴國人也告訴台中市民"},{"start":982.523,"end":1004.697,"text":"我們不放心現在的政府一再的跳票連王美花曾經答應的蔡英文時期答應的曾一、蔡一現在都做不到你要國人如何相信現在的政府備而不用便常態使用藍莓基礎就是肺癌發電我們走著瞧二期環評也就是一個氣換一個美院長謝謝我還你時間好謝謝羅廷瑋執行謝謝主委院長及各部會首長的備詢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":692,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時3分）謝謝韓院長，有請卓院長以及衛福部部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、衛福部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長好。院長，坦白講，表現得這麼差，違法任用人事；還違法進口輸出液；中火增加煙囪管，荼毒臺中人，這樣子你覺得總預算會過嗎？到現在還敢抗中保臺，出征劉德華！你覺得總預算會過嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：總預算跟劉德華無關啊！"],["羅委員廷瑋：講了這麼多，不要只聽後面，前面最重要的，預算、人事任用的……"],["卓院長榮泰：人事進用的部分，我也請衛福部要再詳細地調查、說明，也要跟委員做報告。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，我跟你說，就不符合資格任用的林姓副審查員，我們就繼續，我跟你沒完沒了。10月23號衛福部高調地回答，錄取者雖然資格不符，但有多年的國會經驗，他們需要，尊重用人單位是以計畫經費聘用約用人員。部長，現在你有沒有請他離開？"],["邱部長泰源：我們已經按照……"],["羅委員廷瑋：有沒有請他離開？"],["邱部長泰源：已經有按照要離職的方向在……"],["羅委員廷瑋：他走了嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：以勞基法來處理，一定會辦理離職。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我跟你講，我針對的是整個通案，不是個案，你們在媒體面前高姿態地告訴大家資格不符、國會經驗需要，現在你跟我講，私底下請他走？怎麼了？"],["邱部長泰源：不是私底下……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不是沒有錯？"],["邱部長泰源：是經過大家的討論……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你要不要道歉？你要不要道歉？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們在任用的部分基本上都按照規定在進行。"],["羅委員廷瑋：現在整個衛福部就是胡作非為！整個食藥署的人事約用經費竟有4.7億！我可以大膽評估，整個政府約用人員數十億的金額，就給你們這樣拿去包庇人事案了！食藥署之花去酒店兼差，沒有背景，馬上被懲處；現在這個林姓副審查員拖這麼久，你覺得合理嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們都按照程序來處理……"],["羅委員廷瑋：什麼叫按照程序？"],["邱部長泰源：不當兼職的，馬上召開考紀會……"],["羅委員廷瑋：當時面試這個林姓副審查員時，就是勾資格不符，難道要我把所有內部的資料公諸於世嗎？整個資格任用過程就是違法任用！我告訴你，請院長承諾調查整個政府的約用人員預算中，有沒有類似這樣的案件？因為這可能違反使公務人員登載不實！資格不符還硬要任用，然後牽拖國會經驗？這件事我不是針對個案，而是整個政府的人事預算案都可能有這問題，所以請部長不要再亂了！整個邱式風格讓衛福部、食藥署的大家都很不習慣！我們要的是治理好國家，而不是在養你們這些綠友友、綠的子弟兵。所以我再問一句，部長，要不要道歉？"],["邱部長泰源：委員，有關用人是尊重我們用人……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你不願意道歉，現在卻要請這個人走人？你幹嘛請他走？不是沒有錯嗎？人民的血汗錢被你這樣子花？"],["邱部長泰源：當時用人的過程……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我不跟你談這個！"],["邱部長泰源：我尊重食藥署的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：行政單位的表現爛到爆！有多爛？我們來看看。針對食藥署的三件人事案，本席發文給人總、法務部及廉政署，副本我也給了院長室，得到的回函是什麼？我希望上級單位，至少作為第三方的人總、法務部、廉政署能督導食藥署與衛福部，結果人總回文給我竟然說：已經發文給衛福部，請衛福部自己調查處理。你的調查處理是這樣子，合適嗎？自己調查自己？我的天啊！你們的行政、你們的表現，人民可以接受嗎？自己管自己啊！我要要求……"],["邱部長泰源：我們一切都按照法規處理，一定都按規定來用人……"],["羅委員廷瑋：人事室、政風室自己報告自己，承認自己有錯，院長，這是整個行政體系在做夢嗎？這些人事案不是昨天才發生的，歷經數年，是我們點出來才處理，到現在還自己調查自己，我希望院長立刻撤換食藥署人事室主任、政風室主任，並要求人總、法務部五天內給我們相關調查報告，院長可以承諾嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員已經是第三次提出類似的案子，剛剛聽邱部長的答詢，他說任用資格有問題的這位同仁，現在按照勞基法規定在處理。如果按照勞基法規定，就應該有一定的時間，但我希望部長把時間講出來，什麼時候會做到什麼程度……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我還是剛剛那一句，資格不符為先！所以如果沒有錯，就不應該請人走；你現在請人家走，就代表你有錯，但你又不願意道歉？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果按照勞基法規定，就需要一定時間，之後我還是要了解在整個進用程序上，如果資格不符的話為什麼可以進用。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這件事情我們後續再追，我們繼續。院長，針對現在輸出液的狀況，目前政策有五點需求，這是本土藥廠一直在發生的。院長，你自行看一下PTT……"],["主席：對不起，羅委員時間暫停。其他部長請回，請衛福部備詢就好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：時間還在走，不好意思，時間還在走。剛剛院長說時間暫停，待會要還我15秒。院長，可以開始了嗎？"],["主席：可以。"],["羅委員廷瑋：針對輸出液，現在本土藥廠有五點需求，我簡單講一下，為了配合政府的政策，補足輸出液現在的缺口，因此嚴重加班，超時遭勞工局稽查、罰款、記點，藥廠配合現在的政府政策，但是卻沒有得到政府的幫助，被罰、被記點是藥廠自己的問題，誰願意配合？輸出液如果最後無法補足缺口，最後也是人民受害，有產能但是人力不足，藥廠不斷地發聲是不是能夠比照過往的國家隊，能夠讓替代役或高階人力投入藥廠生產來增加產能？","第三，配合生產250毫升、1,000毫升，其他生理食鹽水的規格、其他容量沒辦法生產，被醫院開罰、重罰，食藥署到現在沒辦法溝通、協調，只是道德勸說醫院不要罰，配合政府政策，前提都是配合政府，誰願意做？人民最後受害，這樣子的表現我在這邊發聲。","健保署8月15號的新聞稿就有說過，為鼓勵國內業者增產，10月1號調漲輸出液支付價最高27%，院長，你知道嗎？這個是參考10年前藥品支付標準的上限價來訂定的，10年的波動、整個物價大家都有感，這種調幅完全無法滿足廠商的基本需求，我現在在講的是基本需求，連要謀生都不行了，怎麼去配合政府，最後沒有輸出液，人民受害，只是回到原先10年前的核價，專案進口可以用高價格給付，專案進口可以高價格給付，對於本土廠現在國產的量能卻沒有辦法給予幫助，合理嗎？又要馬兒好又要馬兒不吃草，所以我希望健保署以平時的價格，既然能夠以2到3倍進口輸出液這樣來圖利所謂的進口，為什麼不能照顧本土廠？","所以今天我要在這邊講，希望院長邀集各部會，聽取業者的困難，邀集各部會一起協助衛福部處理輸出液缺口的問題，院長，可以答應我嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，專案進口終究不是一個正常的常態啦，我們終究還是要靠國內廠商，國內廠商基本生產所需要的條件以及跟政府的關係我們要維持好，我會要求衛福部做好這一點。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝你，最後我要跟你講，簽購採購案是誰核准的？我想請問一下，就食藥署5月13日啟動公開徵求專案輸入，我有去詢問過，生理食鹽水有無依據政府採購公開徵求採購，若沒有，法律依據是什麼，可不可以回答？"],["邱部長泰源：我們是用藥事法第二十七條之二，必要藥品的一個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：來，抓到了，在食藥署的西藥供應資訊平台，重點是生理食鹽水就是非必要的藥！"],["邱部長泰源：但是那個時候用類推，因為那的確是民眾需要的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以藥事法第二十七條之二根本不能使用，你還在胡扯！為什麼你一直要胡扯？"],["邱部長泰源：我們這個都經過非常嚴謹的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：藥事法第二十七條之二不適用於生理食鹽水……"],["邱部長泰源：食藥署都經過非常嚴謹的討論。"],["羅委員廷瑋：生理食鹽水是非必要藥品，這個是你們開記者會說的。"],["邱部長泰源：那個是用類推，因為它的確是民眾需要、醫療需要。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你又是類推適用嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：它是生命的需要。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以又是類推適用，上次我就問你了，你回答我說類推適用，你引用的是藥事法第六十二條有漏洞，有漏洞嗎？有漏洞嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我現在要澄清一下，我們用的是第二十七條之二，對不起。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以又變了嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：沒有，我們沒有用騙的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：第二十七條之二，我跟你講了……"],["邱部長泰源：因為上次的法條是原來的估計，後來發現這一條……"],["羅委員廷瑋：那就不要開記者會告訴大家生理食鹽水非必要藥品，現在又用藥事法第二十七條之二，自己打臉，你的臉不痛嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：它雖然沒有列入必要藥品，但是去類推，因為它是人民生命所需要的，所以必須要用這個來類推。"],["羅委員廷瑋：違法的專案輸入核准函，這筆錢怎麼付？全民買單嗎？總預算編列這樣子，對嗎？說得過去嗎？我上次問你的，用生理食鹽水要用消保法，處理了沒？"],["邱部長泰源：那是不一樣的事情……"],["羅委員廷瑋：還在逛百貨公司喔……"],["邱部長泰源：藥害救濟法是有它的規定，這是有另外……"],["羅委員廷瑋：藥害基金不賠！"],["邱部長泰源：但是絕對會保障人民的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：藥害基金跟我們回答不賠，要就去打跨國官司，去打消保法！"],["邱部長泰源：我們任何藥品一定有保障，請放心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我就衝著你這句話，如果人民發生任何的問題，我就看衛福部要不要幫忙協助，所有的事情都是在維護國人的健康……"],["邱部長泰源：沒有錯！"],["羅委員廷瑋：這就是我們作為民意代表應該要做的。"],["邱部長泰源：那也是我們政府機關必須要做的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：問題是，我要邀請陳世凱部長還有林佳龍部長，請上台。"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長、外交部部長備詢，衛福部邱部長請回。"],["羅委員廷瑋：彭部長，也有你的事情啊，中火啊，你怎麼可以不上來？還是沒有環境部了？是空污污染部！","院長，我就簡單請問你一個問題，中火現在二期燃氣環評在2個月內火速通過初審，環評大會不理地方政府還有環團的意見，現在煙囪管會不會增加？最終煙囪管會不會增加？"],["卓院長榮泰：環評一定是照程序進行到現在……"],["羅委員廷瑋：煙囪管會不會增加？"],["卓院長榮泰：未來到2035年，只會有6部燃氣機組在正常運作……"],["羅委員廷瑋：還有呢？6部燃煤機組備而不用……"],["卓院長榮泰：那個是備而不用……"],["羅委員廷瑋：中火的5根煙囪管要變成6根，這就是事實！"],["卓院長榮泰：6個備用的機組"],["羅委員廷瑋：你旁邊的就是所謂的污染護航部！我要告訴大家，在你旁邊的林佳龍部長，105年擔任臺中市市長的時候，他非常棒，他非常有勇氣，他通過了臺中市生煤管制條例。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個到現在都還在適用，煤的使用量是受到管控的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：107年你們將空污法修惡，限縮了地方政府為民服務、為民把關的權力，後面呢？你把生煤管制條例直接作廢，你對得起臺中人嗎？到現在為止，我們看到了中火有可能火力全開，燃氣、燃煤機組只增不減，王美花、蔡英文時期答應增一拆一，現在呢？跳票！做不到！我請問院長，你對得起臺中人嗎？代表臺中人，我們真的想要爭取自己的身體健康有這麼難嗎？你旁邊的都是臺中人，林佳龍部長臺中人，陳世凱部長臺中人，陳部長，我想請問你，作為臺中人，你做何感想？"],["陳部長世凱：我在乎的是減煤跟減碳，如果可以做到減煤跟減碳，我覺得身為臺中人是可以接受的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所有的臺中人都支持增氣減煤，這是最重要的前提，我們都支持，沒有人反對增氣減煤，但現在看到的是，增完氣以後，你們所謂的備而不用，環境部開的記者會裡面很清楚地顯示，不是為了國安，不是為了戰爭，而是有可能是小老鼠，有可能是松鼠、蛇造成的跳電，我們就要火力全開。你自己也承認，晚上的時候火力發電高達95%以上，院長，火力發電有沒有高達95%以上？"],["卓院長榮泰：在晚上的時候，如果是沒有太陽、沒有風力的時候它是有可能，但是那個時候的用電量……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以院長承認了，當全國火力全開的時候……"],["卓院長榮泰：用電量是很低。"],["羅委員廷瑋：臺中人就是用肺來發電！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，用電量在那個時候，總發電量是比較低的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：臺中市衛生局提供的資料，肺癌是屬於很高致癌的癌症別，所有全體國人拿出你的帳單，看看你的帳單最近有沒有有感，台電的帳單越來越多，一手拿著你的財產，一手拿著你的生命！我要告訴現在的行政院，我們不排除所有的抗爭，空污法107年修惡，我們要把它修回來，我們要還權於民，還權於地方，我們要讓地方政府有權捍衛臺中市所有國人的身體健康，我們一定全力以赴。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們理性一點看這個問題，我希望台電告訴全國人民跟臺中市民，25年、26年、27年一直到35年，每一年燃氣發電的狀況、燃煤發電的狀況、空污減少的狀況……"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，你要還我15秒！沒聲音了，院長。"],["主席：因為我們的時間計算是以1分鐘為單位。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你就還我1分鐘，院長，不好意思，謝謝。"],["主席：沒有問題，因為我們剛剛答應補你時間，再給你1分鐘，請羅委員繼續。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，你剛剛講的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我會要求台電把每一年的狀況算出來，告訴國人，也告訴臺中市民。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們不放心現在的政府，一再地跳票，連王美花曾經答應的、蔡英文時期答應的增一拆一現在都做不到，你要國人如何相信現在的政府，備而不用變成常態使用，燃煤機組就是肺癌發電，我們走著瞧！"],["卓院長榮泰：二期環評也就是一個氣換一個煤。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，謝謝，我還你時間。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及各部會首長的備詢。","再接下來我們請登記23號賴瑞隆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156501","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156501","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d411f9c4b62504f3767e3fd33acf0e4cf8be60e7bb8abb8d4233c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"10:47:11 - 11:02:53","影片長度":"00:15:42","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T10:47:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T11:02:53+08:00","duration":942,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.8278437500000004,"end":5.414093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.684093750000001,"end":7.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15.825968750000001,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16.58534375,"end":17.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.17159375,"end":18.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18.50909375,"end":19.234718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":19.656593750000003,"end":21.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":21.765968750000003,"end":23.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":25.360343750000002,"end":26.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.777843750000002,"end":28.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.617218750000003,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31.941593750000003,"end":34.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":35.01284375,"end":35.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":36.58221875,"end":39.299093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":39.940343750000004,"end":41.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":42.31971875,"end":44.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":45.509093750000005,"end":46.892843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":47.02784375,"end":47.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":47.078468750000006,"end":47.820968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.922218750000006,"end":48.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":48.377843750000004,"end":49.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":49.930343750000006,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":54.570968750000006,"end":54.705968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":55.836593750000006,"end":58.047218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":58.485968750000005,"end":59.312843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":60.375968750000006,"end":64.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":64.25721875,"end":65.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":65.86034375,"end":66.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":66.80534375,"end":68.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":68.57721875,"end":71.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":72.28971875,"end":73.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":73.65659375,"end":75.17534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":76.44096875000001,"end":77.52096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":79.66409375,"end":80.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":81.04784375,"end":81.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":82.02659375,"end":82.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":83.68034375,"end":84.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":84.92909375,"end":85.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":87.02159375000001,"end":88.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":88.72596875,"end":89.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":90.75096875,"end":94.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":94.68284375,"end":97.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":98.22659375,"end":98.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":98.83409375000001,"end":103.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":103.72784375,"end":104.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":106.44471875,"end":107.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.49096875000001,"end":112.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.58721875,"end":117.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":119.28659375000001,"end":121.78409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":122.10471875,"end":129.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.99909375000001,"end":124.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":131.84159375000002,"end":133.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":133.95096875000002,"end":134.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":135.19971875000002,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":137.08971875,"end":138.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.46909375,"end":140.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.58284375,"end":141.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.28721875000002,"end":144.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":142.55721875,"end":143.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.07159375,"end":146.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.46784375000001,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":147.51846875,"end":148.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":150.94409375,"end":151.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":151.53471875,"end":156.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":156.54659375,"end":157.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":158.16659375,"end":159.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":159.48284375,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":162.75659375,"end":163.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":164.14034375,"end":165.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.49034375000002,"end":166.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.27909375000002,"end":170.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.50221875,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.41346875000002,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.07909375,"end":181.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":182.23034375,"end":184.59284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":185.13284375,"end":189.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":190.29659375,"end":194.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":194.51534375,"end":196.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":196.55721875,"end":200.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":201.88971875000001,"end":202.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":203.17221875,"end":205.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":205.18034375000002,"end":208.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":208.72409375,"end":211.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":211.93034375000002,"end":213.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":214.19159375,"end":216.45284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":216.85784375,"end":217.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":218.02221875,"end":219.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":220.06409375,"end":222.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":222.39284375000003,"end":223.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":223.50659375,"end":224.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.85659375,"end":227.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.53971875000002,"end":230.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.62784375,"end":234.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.23471875,"end":241.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.25909375,"end":244.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":244.04346875000002,"end":244.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.71846875000003,"end":244.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":244.97159375,"end":253.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.05034375000002,"end":254.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":254.45534375000003,"end":255.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":255.80534375000002,"end":256.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":256.53096875,"end":260.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.93159375,"end":258.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.14659375,"end":260.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.81721875,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.33784375,"end":279.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.63284375,"end":292.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.91346875,"end":296.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":296.11971875,"end":300.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.81159375000004,"end":297.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.64659375,"end":300.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":300.69284375,"end":302.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":302.56596875,"end":304.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":304.45596875,"end":304.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.32909375,"end":306.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.98721875,"end":318.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":315.66096875,"end":315.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":315.91409375,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.04909375,"end":316.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":316.31909375000004,"end":316.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.36971875,"end":316.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.08659375,"end":322.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.40659375,"end":330.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":330.96659375,"end":332.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":332.73846875000004,"end":332.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.78909375,"end":332.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":332.97471875,"end":333.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.02534375000005,"end":333.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":333.04221875,"end":336.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.71284375000005,"end":335.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.88971875000004,"end":341.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":341.34471875,"end":341.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.53034375000004,"end":341.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":341.59784375000004,"end":341.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.63159375000004,"end":341.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":341.71596875,"end":341.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":342.01971875000004,"end":344.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.29784375,"end":345.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":345.24284375,"end":345.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.29346875000005,"end":345.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":345.34409375,"end":345.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.36096875000004,"end":345.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":345.39471875000004,"end":346.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.12034375,"end":346.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":346.13721875000005,"end":346.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.28909375,"end":346.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":346.33971875000003,"end":348.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.57159375000003,"end":348.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.61784375,"end":375.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.21284375000005,"end":381.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.49909375000004,"end":379.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":379.51596875,"end":379.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.79409375,"end":385.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":386.14784375000005,"end":391.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":391.61534375,"end":392.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":393.37034375,"end":393.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":394.16346875000005,"end":395.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":396.81284375,"end":398.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":399.36096875000004,"end":400.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":400.89659375,"end":408.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":408.97971875,"end":414.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":415.08846875,"end":420.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":421.16346875000005,"end":422.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":423.64409375,"end":425.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":426.25971875000005,"end":427.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":427.69409375000004,"end":430.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":430.46159375,"end":431.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.71034375000005,"end":431.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":432.23346875000004,"end":432.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":433.36409375000005,"end":434.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":435.06846875,"end":437.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":437.63346875,"end":441.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":441.78471875,"end":442.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":442.35846875000004,"end":443.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.75909375000003,"end":445.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.18909375000004,"end":450.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":448.75409375000004,"end":451.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":451.79159375,"end":458.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":459.25034375,"end":460.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":461.29221875,"end":462.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":462.64221875000004,"end":464.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":464.54909375000005,"end":466.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":466.82721875000004,"end":466.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":467.33346875,"end":467.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":468.17721875,"end":469.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":470.10096875000005,"end":474.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":474.62346875000003,"end":475.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":476.09159375,"end":477.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":478.45409375,"end":480.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":481.32284375,"end":482.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":483.07784375000006,"end":485.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":486.65534375000004,"end":487.68471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":487.83659375,"end":490.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":491.53221875,"end":492.39284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":492.96659375,"end":494.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.92409375000005,"end":495.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.02096875,"end":496.12221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.57784375000006,"end":498.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.78846875000005,"end":500.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.37471875000006,"end":501.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.77534375000005,"end":505.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.00659375000004,"end":509.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.26784375000005,"end":510.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.75284375,"end":513.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":513.9084687500001,"end":517.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":517.1147187500001,"end":517.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":518.44784375,"end":518.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":519.1059687500001,"end":520.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":520.9622187500001,"end":530.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":531.3740937499999,"end":536.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":537.2634687500001,"end":537.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":537.7865937500001,"end":539.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":539.54159375,"end":540.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":540.7565937500001,"end":541.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":542.39346875,"end":543.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":544.3172187499999,"end":545.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":545.86971875,"end":546.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":546.9328437500001,"end":547.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":548.3503437500001,"end":548.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.7509687500001,"end":551.6240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.82659375,"end":554.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.22284375,"end":556.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.27721875,"end":557.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":557.96909375,"end":558.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":559.26846875,"end":560.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.5803437500001,"end":561.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":561.64784375,"end":563.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":563.47034375,"end":565.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":565.7990937500001,"end":567.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":567.97596875,"end":571.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":571.9753437500001,"end":575.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":575.83971875,"end":577.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":578.7422187500001,"end":579.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":580.32846875,"end":581.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":582.30284375,"end":582.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":583.41659375,"end":583.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":584.29409375,"end":585.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":586.70721875,"end":588.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":588.49596875,"end":590.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":590.4197187500001,"end":590.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":591.31409375,"end":594.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":594.68909375,"end":596.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":597.4397187500001,"end":599.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":599.76846875,"end":602.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":603.1940937500001,"end":605.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":605.7253437500001,"end":606.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":606.90659375,"end":609.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.5347187500001,"end":610.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":610.70346875,"end":615.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":616.4240937500001,"end":617.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":617.9428437500001,"end":622.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":622.66784375,"end":624.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":624.1697187500001,"end":625.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":626.2790937500001,"end":626.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":627.6965937500001,"end":628.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":629.56971875,"end":630.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":631.81409375,"end":632.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":632.96159375,"end":633.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":634.1259687500001,"end":635.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":635.8472187500001,"end":637.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":638.2097187500001,"end":639.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":639.40784375,"end":642.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":643.8797187499999,"end":645.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":646.02284375,"end":649.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":650.12346875,"end":653.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":653.4309687500001,"end":654.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":655.84409375,"end":658.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":659.0503437500001,"end":660.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":660.50159375,"end":661.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":661.8684687500001,"end":662.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":663.04971875,"end":664.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":664.29846875,"end":666.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":666.44159375,"end":666.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.4753437500001,"end":666.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":666.5090937500001,"end":666.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.67346875,"end":668.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.10784375,"end":674.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.3559687500001,"end":674.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.38534375,"end":678.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.5747187500001,"end":680.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.73471875,"end":683.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.8059687500001,"end":685.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.81409375,"end":687.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":687.68721875,"end":690.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":690.5222187500001,"end":697.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":698.35221875,"end":699.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":699.4153437500001,"end":702.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":703.22909375,"end":704.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":705.0347187500001,"end":705.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":705.77721875,"end":706.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":707.61659375,"end":708.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":708.88221875,"end":719.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":720.15471875,"end":725.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":726.1115937500001,"end":729.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":730.4653437500001,"end":745.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":730.68471875,"end":733.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":744.8259687500001,"end":747.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":747.96471875,"end":749.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":749.82096875,"end":751.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":752.1328437500001,"end":753.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":753.9722187500001,"end":755.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":756.16596875,"end":757.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":758.41034375,"end":759.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":760.08096875,"end":760.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":760.8572187500001,"end":760.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":763.16909375,"end":764.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":764.5022187500001,"end":766.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":766.7297187500001,"end":768.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":769.19346875,"end":774.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":774.98159375,"end":776.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":777.25971875,"end":784.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":784.65096875,"end":797.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":785.7647187500002,"end":788.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":789.4265937499999,"end":790.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":797.59409375,"end":801.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":801.81284375,"end":803.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":803.11221875,"end":807.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":807.4153437500001,"end":808.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":808.8159687500001,"end":810.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":811.09409375,"end":812.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":813.06846875,"end":813.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":813.65909375,"end":815.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.2409687500001,"end":821.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":816.2747187500001,"end":816.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.2022187500002,"end":825.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.6909687500001,"end":827.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.3740937500002,"end":838.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.78721875,"end":831.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.1753437500001,"end":831.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":838.0434687500001,"end":841.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":841.9753437500001,"end":847.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":847.24034375,"end":848.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":848.94471875,"end":854.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":854.29409375,"end":854.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":854.32784375,"end":854.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":854.44596875,"end":859.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":859.4578437500002,"end":862.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":862.74846875,"end":862.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":862.76534375,"end":867.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":868.24971875,"end":868.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":868.9753437500001,"end":869.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":869.49846875,"end":871.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":872.02971875,"end":872.5359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":872.7722187500001,"end":873.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":874.15596875,"end":874.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":875.4384687500001,"end":876.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":877.36221875,"end":880.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":880.3659687500001,"end":885.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":886.32284375,"end":898.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":898.33784375,"end":904.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":904.5478437500001,"end":906.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":905.5772187500002,"end":905.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":905.62784375,"end":905.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":906.2522187500001,"end":909.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":909.00284375,"end":911.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":911.82096875,"end":918.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":913.6772187500001,"end":916.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":916.98471875,"end":917.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":918.7903437500001,"end":919.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":932.6615937500001,"end":936.9478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":938.8547187500001,"end":941.47034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.471,"end":25.744,"text":"謝謝主席。有請院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。劉委員好。院長好。院長辛苦齁。不會。院長知道,您知道目前台灣的,面臨到很多內外的隱憂嗎?很多的挑戰。"},{"start":26.823,"end":53.748,"text":"所以國家一直有這樣的外部內部的各種問題,我們都極力的來解決。你看這個颱風,12年3次來。大家,你還是總統就要疲於奔命的要去看災。這其實,面臨到這個狀況基本上要很多的因應的措施。剛剛我聽那劉委員的垂詢,劉委員的垂詢,我是劉委員。"},{"start":55.942,"end":82.577,"text":"下午的總預算到底能不能互違?院長有沒有把握?因為院長那天在答覆的時候跟我講說,不至於不會過了。那萬一不會過,怎麼處理?而且又是你當了院長,第一次依照自己的意識去編的預算。萬一不會過,影響的層面非常廣。不然你都會影響到。那你答覆我是,應該不至於不會過了。"},{"start":84.015,"end":104.645,"text":"萬一不會過怎麼辦?下禮拜再來下禮拜再來下禮拜再來這個下禮拜再來到最終最終如果可以過那當然什麼事情都沒有了嘛就貫徹這個預算要達標嘛達到你們的意志整個施政的這個理念嘛那萬一還是不過勒?"},{"start":107.54,"end":135.774,"text":"我還是這一句話應該不會不會過因為這是國家人民的大事甚至台灣的大事現在看起來也是世界上一件重要的事我還是期待院長的信心可以履行但是還是要請院長要有相關的因應知道好不好謝謝院長那第二個今天是美國總統大選院長有預知的能力能不能答覆一下預知哪一位"},{"start":137.093,"end":137.834,"text":"誰當選對台灣的政策對台灣的影響包含從經濟包含從相關的產業"},{"start":165.813,"end":189.551,"text":"雖然我們認為美台之間的關係一定是持續穩定的發展但是政策上如果有任何的轉變那我們會有國家因應的對策這一定是要的但是我們現在還是認為他應該朝向健康有序的發展你看喔 院長請看一下圖表這個是我們近一年美國成為台灣出口最大的一個投資市場"},{"start":190.356,"end":209.563,"text":"那台灣在對美國出口額在過去5年是快速增加,從2017年的115億到2023年是增加到215億美元。換了總統,絕對有不一樣的做法跟思維嘛。那為什麼美國總統大選之前已經鬧得灰又洋洋?川普說過什麼樣的話?賀錦麗說過什麼樣的話?"},{"start":212.022,"end":224.031,"text":"我想不管站在經濟不管站在產業不管站在投資美國這個市場誰當選對我們影響甚巨嗎那我們應該有相關的因應的這樣的一個方針在準備吧"},{"start":224.972,"end":253.394,"text":"我認為美國是一個民主純熟的國家選舉當中很多的政策未來還是要經過美國整個國家在大政策大方向的前提之下持續它長久以來的發展跟方向所以我是覺得未來的健康有序的發展應該還是我們現在有信心有把握的對院長有信心有把握我也非常的能夠期待但是因應的相關的方針有預備好了嗎"},{"start":255.865,"end":279.103,"text":"誰當選?對不對?我們應該有一定的因應的作為嗎?請簡單答悟,謝謝。我們現在是有在做準備。那原則上川普的當選對我們差異性比較大。那我們也看到他整個政策主要是他會對中國加徵60%的關稅。對一般的國家增加10%的關稅。那第二個部分在技術的控管。"},{"start":279.727,"end":304.104,"text":"那因為這個部分呢其實對台灣來講其實是利多於弊的原因主要是第一個會加速台灣的移動台商移動第二個事情是我們有這個機會得到更多的取代訂單取代那這幾年其實中國很多的訂單是被取代你特別提到他對中國會加稅嗎對其他國家會加稅嗎對台灣會不會對台企業會不會怎樣處理你如果要回答我就應該回答這些"},{"start":307.097,"end":329.753,"text":"基本上它是增加10%,但是它是逐步增加因為台灣的企業基本上是以幫美國廠商代工為主所以我們的影響並沒有那麼的劇烈那第二個事情是它會做技術的限令那技術的限令是為了保障美國利益那基本上我們會跟著這個技術限令中我們認為有機會得到好處"},{"start":331.084,"end":333.525,"text":"報告委員,我們的準備是這樣,就是依照這個國發會的這樣的一個佈局"},{"start":355.014,"end":370.848,"text":"那就經濟部的立場來看就像剛才國發會的這個推論是一樣的就是賀錦麗因為她是延續她民主黨的這個政策所以對我們來講是沒有太大的這個改變如果是今天是這個川普當選"},{"start":371.969,"end":372.75,"text":"我再請院長看這個齁"},{"start":397.074,"end":422.533,"text":"台灣要進到超高齡社會,院長非常清楚,65歲已經要達到20%,可能今年年底就到了啦,或許是明年初嘛,原本是預估在最早之前是2026啦,你看這三年前就提早說提早會提早到2025,那我看是應該是2024的年底就會達標了啦,因為那個統計數據會有呈現的速度快慢的這個狀況。那五個人就有一個人超過65歲,這個國家的人口結構快速轉變,"},{"start":426.274,"end":443.093,"text":"其實什麼都會變啦從經濟啦、產業啦、文化啦、教育等等等是快跟慢是這個部分坦白說啦齁我在院長的施政報告我都有拜託過這一塊人口結構快速轉變的因應作為院長我是沒有看到的"},{"start":443.82,"end":463.5,"text":"我們另外有人口對策的在討論特定的議題那已經開過數字的會議了你再看小英還沒有當總統之前的長照1叫1.0吧平均4、5、10億啦坦白講很多是用行政院與預備軍去動之的小英上台之後的第二年成立長照基金從4、5、10億變成321你看那是幾倍數的在成長"},{"start":467.383,"end":489.372,"text":"到了現在賴總統就位了,明年的長照今年是876億,明年是927億,還是快速在增加。那院長你可以看這個相關的一些資料,衛福部推動一國中學區一日間照顧中心,院長部長看一下,到了112年還有7個縣市未達成,未達到8成,院長覺得這樣很及格嗎?"},{"start":496.684,"end":497.004,"text":"家庭社區、機構、團體"},{"start":519.195,"end":526.777,"text":"院長跟部長開一個資料,截至到112年底,全國有7748村裡,累計有4101個村裡佈建,4830個關懷據點,佈建率為52.93,金門跟台北已經超過70%。我的縣市雲林縣到現在為止37點多,其他的縣市不及50%的一大堆。院長覺得這樣及格嗎?"},{"start":549.81,"end":577.196,"text":"那請衛福部跟廖都住行這個各地方政府能夠配合那中央能夠協助的我們積極的趕上你的目標要不要設定出來院長是一個很有信心的人像這樣有三成多五成多的其他縣市已經來到七成全國目前為止在做這個關懷據點我覺得齁我要跟院長因為時間的關係我講最快的速度啦齁長照關懷據點重中之重"},{"start":578.797,"end":602.117,"text":"我一生追求是希望讓台灣的人民六個字而已預防走入長照或許大家聽起來會很衝突矛盾政府在推長照的政策裡面是百姓的感受度好的正向的是非常高的那我為什麼反而不希望人民走入長照長照呼喚的法律定義非常清楚長期身體心理沒辦法治理"},{"start":603.237,"end":628.345,"text":"要讓人家處理啦,要讓人家料理嘛,簡單講就是要有六三六六就對了啦。我們做蓋好的長照就是很多人這樣的需求,你看他的預算節節在上升。這是非常恐怖的,你看有哪幾中央部會相關的各機關的單位預算,有哪一個像長照預算這麼快速增加?非常少,少之又少。"},{"start":629.605,"end":654.862,"text":"那代表整個臺灣超過一定的年齡的這個需求長照的人數它是在擴充它是在增加那另外一個角度當然我們的服務項目服務的對象也在增加是沒有錯不過我必須要提醒如果今天賴清德總統打造的健康臺灣然後我們的長照的需求又持續在擴大其實這是衝突跟矛盾的"},{"start":656.142,"end":666.609,"text":"簡單用一個台語說啦,簡單一句話就好了啦,人生如果吃到,吃到八九十歲,要做好東西啦,不用對那八成啦,不用用六三十九五六年就對了啦,這叫好事。"},{"start":667.671,"end":667.751,"text":"主席"},{"start":698.392,"end":698.613,"text":"主席"},{"start":708.959,"end":729.6,"text":"市委員的隨行,我們在長照山頂特別強調也就是委員所一直關心的希望能夠用預防的角度所以我們怎麼樣預防失能其實是長照山頂最重要的一件事情也就是說剛剛院長所提的我們健康台灣希望不健康的移民能夠降低"},{"start":730.367,"end":732.448,"text":"長照預防的比例在佔876億多少?明年920億預防的比例是多少?然後你著重在哪一塊?"},{"start":758.462,"end":784.03,"text":"除了你剛剛講的那幾項,你裝在哪一塊?報告委員長照基本上都是都是剛剛你講的就是說基本上看起來他的工作的內容來講基本上的確過去都是照顧這個失能嘛但是如果要把它推到前面那可能要結合到醫療體系跟社區整合型照顧體系"},{"start":784.73,"end":812.208,"text":"我這段時間預算存兩分鐘而已齁,我做很短的時間,我們如果陳吳院長也覺得預防走入長道是我們打造現在台灣的這樣的一個目標啦,跟方法來講,那你在長照基金的預防就比重要拉高嘛,那我們就很清楚,今年800多億,你的預防比例是多少,明年900多億的預防比例是多少,那你要放在哪一塊嘛,你的社區公園據點,你基本上,你到現在為止,全國不到五成,"},{"start":813.543,"end":841.436,"text":"市區會計程的用意非常重要我原提的這個問題我們應該是科學上來把它算數一下因為現在比較難算數我們在比如說社區照顧多元當中有很多是健康跟亞健康的國人他可能進到裡面他不是需要長照的也有他可能在從事一些活動啦運動啦等等或交流那這個部分我們會有多少的預算或許目前沒有系列成這個樣子那這個研究是有價值的"},{"start":841.816,"end":867.439,"text":"OK,院長,這個我們之前,我剛剛特別強調,在成立常常基金的時候,我們就有特別要求了。這一定要有一定的比例啦。我們有關懷訪視嘛,我們有參與健康活動等嘛。這些絕對不是只有長照需求者,對象不是只有長照需求者。其實坦白講,我們現在處理的面向已經非常廣了。會得到正向的這樣的一個肯定,基本上不是只有照顧這一群。"},{"start":868.291,"end":870.032,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．劉建國"},{"start":887.373,"end":904.015,"text":"這個必須要...這個健康照顧的確是連續的,剛剛院長也有指示,那我想我們如果來把他欺負比較屬於在預防性,其實你現在在照顧就是讓他不要失能,不要躺下來,這個都是長照裡面非常重要的工作,這其實都是屬於預防他"},{"start":904.796,"end":919.578,"text":"施能的一個很重要的所以院長也有認同那部長我希望這樣我們再把它分析問題分析得更細緻一點這一個月也可以吧我們把這樣相關的面向把它盤整出來檢討出來然後我們在明年度的也明年度還沒"},{"start":932.691,"end":934.613,"text":"好,謝謝劉建國委員質詢。謝謝卓院長及相關首長的備詢。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":614,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（10時47分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：劉委員好。"],["劉委員建國：院長好。院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["劉委員建國：院長您知道目前臺灣面臨到很多內外的隱憂嗎？很多的挑戰。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，國家一直有這樣外部、內部的各種問題，我們都極力的來解決。"],["劉委員建國：你看颱風接二連三一直來，你還是總統就要疲於奔命的去勘災，其實臺灣面臨到這個狀況，基本上要有很多因應的措施。剛剛我聽牛委員的垂詢，下午的總預算到底能不能付委？院長有沒有把握？因為院長那天在答復的時候，跟我講說不至於不會過，那萬一不會過，怎麼處理？而且這是你當了院長第一次依照自己的意志去編的預算，萬一不會過，影響的層面非常廣，包含你都會影響到，你答復我是應該不至於不會過，那萬一不會過怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：下禮拜再來。"],["劉委員建國：下禮拜再來？到最終、最終如果可以過，當然什麼事情都沒有了，就貫徹這個預算要達標，達到你們的意志、整個施政的理念嘛！那萬一還是不過呢？你看，院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：我還是這句話，應該不會不會過，因為這是國家人民的大事，甚至臺灣的大事現在看起來也是世界上一件重要的事。"],["劉委員建國：我還是期待院長的信心可以履行啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：一定要。"],["劉委員建國：但是還是請院長要有相關的因應之道，好不好？謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["劉委員建國：第二個，今天是美國總統大選，院長有預知的能力，能不能答復一下，預知哪一位美國總統候選人會當選？"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有這個能力……"],["劉委員建國：因為你對預算就可以說「應該」。"],["卓院長榮泰：預測我們自己總統的選舉可能比較有能力，美國總統選舉我沒有能力預測。"],["劉委員建國：好，如果沒有預測能力，就應該要有相關的因應之道嘛！誰當選對臺灣的政策、對臺灣的影響，包含從經濟、包含從相關的產業，會有什麼樣的影響，我們有準備好了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們認為美、臺之間的關係一定是持續穩定的發展，政策上如果有任何的轉變，我們會有國家因應的對策，這一定是要的，但是我們現在還是認為它應該朝向健康永續的發展。"],["劉委員建國：院長請看一下圖表，近一年美國成為臺灣出口最大的一個投資市場，臺灣對美國出口額在過去5年是快速增加，從2017年的115億到2023年是增加到215億美元，換了總統，絕對有不一樣的作法跟思維嘛！我想美國總統大選之前，已經鬧得沸沸揚揚，川普說過什麼樣的話、賀錦麗說過什麼樣的話，不管站在經濟，不管站在產業，不管站在投資美國這個市場，誰當選對我們影響甚鉅嘛，我們應該有相關因應的一個方針在準備吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為美國是一個民主成熟的國家，選舉當中很多的政策，未來還是要經過美國整個國家在大政策、大方向的前提之下，持續它長久以來的發展跟方向，所以我是覺得未來健康永續的發展，我們現在應該還是有信心、有把握的。"],["劉委員建國：院長，有信心、有把握，我也非常的能夠期待啦，但是因應相關的方針有預備好了嗎？誰當選，我們應該有一定因應的作為嘛！請簡單答復，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，我們現在是有在做準備，原則上川普的當選對我們差異性比較大，我們也看到他整個政策主要是會對中國加增60%的關稅；對一般的國家增加10%的關稅。第二個部分在技術的控管，這個部分其實對臺灣來講是利多於弊的原因主要是，第一個，會加速臺商移動；第二個，我們有這個機會得到更多的訂單取代，這幾年，其實中國很多的訂單是被取代下來……"],["劉委員建國：你特別提到，他對中國會加稅嘛！對其他國家會加稅嘛！對臺灣會不會？對臺企業怎麼樣處理？你如果要回答我就應該回答這些。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：它是增加10%，但它是逐步增加，因為基本上臺灣的企業是以幫美國廠商代工為主……"],["劉委員建國：沒有錯。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以對我們的影響並沒有那麼劇烈。第二個事情，它會做技術的限令，技術的限令是為了保障美國利益，基本上，跟著這個技術限令中，我們認為有機會得到好處。"],["劉委員建國：現在你只有答復我，你的設想是川普當選……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，川普當選。"],["劉委員建國：如果是賀錦麗當選呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：賀錦麗當選，跟現在的變動不會太大，我們的評估是這樣。"],["劉委員建國：有評估過了？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["劉委員建國：也有相關因應的作為就對了？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，因為他的政策會繼續延續。"],["劉委員建國：郭部長要不要補充？簡單就好，好不好？謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們的準備是這樣，依照國發會這樣的一個布局，就經濟部的立場來看，就像剛才國發會的推論是一樣，賀錦麗因為是延續民主黨的這個政策，所以對我們來講是沒有太大的改變；如果是今天是川普當選，他也一直對我們的晶片法相當有意見，但是我們評估過了，我們有一套對策在，所以應該不會像外面在講的那麼嚴重。"],["劉委員建國：OK，好，我就儘量讓你們答復啦，看起來兩位都跟院長一樣，也相當有信心啦！"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["劉委員建國：兩位請回好，謝謝。我再請院長看這一個，臺灣要進到超高齡社會，院長非常清楚，65歲以上人口已經要達到20%，可能今年年底就到了，或許明年初……"],["卓院長榮泰：明年。"],["劉委員建國：原本最早之前預估是2026啦，你看3年前就說會提早到2025……"],["卓院長榮泰：2025。"],["劉委員建國：我看是應該是2024的年底就就會達標了啦，因為統計數據呈現會有速度快慢的狀況，5個人就有1個人超過65歲，這個國家的人口結構快速轉變，其實什麼都會變啦，從經濟、產業、文化、教育等等，是快跟慢的問題。這個部分坦白說，院長的施政報告我都有拜讀過，這一塊人口結構快速轉變的因應作為，院長，我是沒有看到耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們另外有人口對策的在討論……"],["劉委員建國：好，沒關係……"],["卓院長榮泰：特定的議題，但已經開過數次會議。"],["劉委員建國：OK，謝謝。院長，你再看，小英還沒有當總統之前的長照叫1.0嘛，平均40、50億啦，坦白講很多是用行政院預備金去動支。小英上臺之後的第2年成立長照基金，從四、五十億變成320億，你看它是幾倍數的在成長？現在賴總統就位了，今年長照是876億，明年是927億，還是快速在增加。院長你可以看這些相關資料，衛福部推動一國中學區一日照顧中心，院長、部長看一下，到112年還有7個縣市未達未達到八成，院長覺得這樣及格嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：事實上進步速度是很具體的呈現，但委員所指出的還有若干不足，當然要趕上來，未來我們計畫推動長照3.0，會從家庭、社區到機構及社福整個串聯起來。"],["劉委員建國：家庭、社區、機構到團體。我這邊再給院長跟部長看一個資料，截至112年底，全國有7,748個村里，累計有4,101個村里布建4,830個關懷據點，布建率為52.93%，金門跟臺北已經超過七成（70%），我的縣市──雲林縣到現在為止百分之三十七點多，其他的縣市不及50%的有一大堆，院長覺得這樣及格嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請衛福部更要促請各地方政府配合，中央能夠協助的，我們會積極趕上。"],["劉委員建國：你的目標要不要設定出來？院長是一個很有信心的人，像這樣有三成多、五成多的，其他的縣市已經達到七成，目前為止，全國在做這個關懷據點……我覺得我要跟院長說明，因為時間的關係，我用最快的速度講，長照關懷據點的重中之重，我一生追求的是希望讓臺灣人民達到6個字──預防走入長照，或許大家聽起來會很衝突矛盾，政府在推長照的政策，百姓的感受度是好的、正向的非常高，我為什麼反而不希望人民走入長照？長照服務法的法律定義非常清楚，係指長期身體、心理沒辦法自理，都要讓人家處理、讓人家料理，簡單說就是要有人幫忙把屎把尿就對了。我們蓋好了長照，就表示有很多人有這樣的需求，你看它的預算節節上升，這是非常恐怖的，你看中央部會各機關相關的單位預算，有哪一個像長照預算這麼快速增加？非常少、少之又少。代表整個臺灣超過一定年齡的需求及長照人數在擴充、在增加；另外一個角度，當然我們的服務項目、服務對象也在增加是沒有錯，不過我必須要提醒，如果今天賴清德總統打造的是「健康台灣」，然後我們長照的需求又持續擴大，其實這是衝突跟矛盾的。簡單用台語說一句話就好了：人生若活到八、九十歲後好走，不用躺在病床、不用被人家把屎把尿五、六年，這叫做福報。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，跟委員的想法一樣，健康臺灣裡面的一支重要精神就是要縮短國人的不健康餘命，所以剛剛委員說的那一句「預防走入長照」就是一個好的方向。我也常說：讓國人健康多一天，勝過給他照顧多一點；讓他能夠健康健康的活著。"],["劉委員建國：那我就要請教院長跟部長了，當時長照服務法在主提的時候，包含長照基金在設立時，我們都有特別要求「預防走入長照」要有一定比率在長照基金裡面，院長跟部長可以答復我嗎？比率是多少？"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝委員的垂詢，我們在長照3.0裡面特別強調，也就是委員一直關心的，希望能夠用預防的角度，所以怎麼樣預防失能其實是長照3.0最重要的一件事情，也就是剛剛院長所提的「健康台灣」，希望不健康的餘命能夠降低……"],["劉委員建國：部長，你直接答復我比率好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在強調的是醫療跟長照的結合，長照3.0在這個部分很重要，所以我們從預防開始，家庭醫師到家裡去，還有團隊……"],["劉委員建國：部長，你還是沒答復我，今年長照876億，預防的比率占多少？明年927億，預防的比率是多少？然後你們著重在哪一塊？除了剛剛講的那幾項，你們著重在哪一塊？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，長照基本上都是剛剛你講的，就他的工作內容來看，的確過去都是照顧失能者，但是如果要把他推到前面，可能就要結合到醫療體系跟社區整合型的照護體系……"],["劉委員建國：部長，我的發言時間真的有限，只剩下2分鐘，我最後一點時間……"],["邱部長泰源：我的意思是說，從別的經費……"],["劉委員建國：誠如院長也覺得，預防走入長照是我們打造健康臺灣這樣一個目標跟方法，那你在長照基金的預防比重就要拉高，那我們就很清楚，像今年八百多億，你的預防比例是多少；明年九百多億，你預防比例是多少，那你要放在哪一塊嘛！像社區關懷據點，到現在為止，全國不到五成！社區關懷據點的用意非常重要……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員提的這個問題，我們應該是科學上來把它算數一下，現在比較難算的是，比方說社區照顧多元當中，有很多是健康跟亞健康的國人，他可能進到裡面，但他不是需要長照的也有……"],["劉委員建國：對！對！對！"],["卓院長榮泰：他可能是在從事一些活動、運動或交流等等，而這個部分我們會有多少的預算，或許目前沒有細列成這個樣子，但這個研究是有價值的。"],["劉委員建國：OK！院長，我剛剛特別強調，之前在成立長照基金的時候，我們就有特別要求了，這一定要有一定的比例，像我們有關懷訪視、參與健康活動等等，這些對象絕對不是只有長照需求者，其實坦白講，我們現在處理的面向已經非常廣了，會得到正向這樣的一個肯定，基本上不是只有照顧這一群，連那些好手好腳的，我們也一併在照顧了。所以這個部分你們要盤整非常清楚，然後到底這個預防的費用應該占你整個年度長照期基金的比例是多少，你才可以達到預防走入長照真正的效果。"],["邱部長泰源：是。這個健康照護的確是連續的，剛剛院長也有指示，我想我們來把它區分哪些比較屬於預防性的，其實現在的照顧，就是讓他不要失能、不要躺下來，這個都是長照裡面非常重要的工作，這其實都是屬於預防他失能一個很重要的部分。"],["劉委員建國：所以院長有認同，我希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再把問題分析得更細緻一點。"],["劉委員建國：部長，1個月可以吧？把這樣相關的面向盤整出來、檢討出來……"],["邱部長泰源：沒有問題。"],["劉委員建國：然後明年度的因為還沒有執行，所以明年度就這個部分應該怎樣去做，有一定比例去做預防走入長照以達到目標，我覺得這是可以來處理的，好不好？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝部長，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是我們張嘉郡委員邀請的，來自雲林縣大埤鄉的鄉親，熱烈歡迎大埤鄉的好朋友，謝謝。","接下來我們請登記第22號的羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156500","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156500","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d4160de7bf50f8865a1e3fd33acf0e4cf8bc33455cf26ecaca975b8ca2af51068035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:31:37 - 10:47:04","影片長度":"00:15:27","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T10:31:37+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T10:47:04+08:00","duration":927,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.45221875,"end":5.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.544718750000001,"end":7.945343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.074718750000002,"end":26.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.04909375,"end":19.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.59221875,"end":37.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.52721875,"end":44.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.13784375,"end":70.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.72034375,"end":71.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.10846875,"end":71.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.95221875,"end":76.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.71096875,"end":79.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.35596875,"end":82.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.70159375,"end":82.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.07284375,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.08971875,"end":84.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.25409375000001,"end":84.65909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.87846875000001,"end":97.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.49659375,"end":100.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.00659375000001,"end":108.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.70221875,"end":132.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.03909375,"end":112.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.01721875000001,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.09034375000002,"end":150.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.84284375000001,"end":156.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.41159375,"end":161.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.82846875,"end":169.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.59096875,"end":170.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.17721875,"end":176.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.03721875000002,"end":194.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.84596875000003,"end":185.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.69346875000002,"end":190.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.22034375,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.71784375000001,"end":212.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.62221875,"end":215.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.49096875,"end":216.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.31346875000003,"end":218.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.59596875000003,"end":218.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.66346875000002,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.96721875,"end":219.00096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.00096875000003,"end":219.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.03471875000002,"end":219.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.01346875000002,"end":236.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.06409375,"end":223.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.96909375,"end":234.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.04034375,"end":247.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.62096875,"end":249.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.01721875,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.89034375000003,"end":257.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.64471875000004,"end":263.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.51721875000004,"end":272.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.31346875,"end":276.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.69659375000003,"end":277.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.73034375000003,"end":276.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.60346875,"end":281.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.89409375,"end":284.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.35346875,"end":287.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.05346875000004,"end":299.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.59596875,"end":299.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.64659375,"end":299.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.73096875000005,"end":305.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.53596875,"end":308.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.97846875000005,"end":309.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.87284375,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.97409375,"end":314.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.81284375,"end":317.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.09096875,"end":318.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.58034375,"end":327.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.40596875,"end":355.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.93346875000003,"end":354.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.84034375000005,"end":359.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.75534375,"end":360.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.26159375000003,"end":364.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.90221875000003,"end":365.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.53909375,"end":368.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.61034375,"end":374.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.72784375000003,"end":373.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.49971875,"end":377.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.17034375000003,"end":396.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.38909375000003,"end":381.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.74534375,"end":425.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.49659375000005,"end":423.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.70284375,"end":429.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.07346875,"end":455.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.28034375000004,"end":468.70034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.88596875,"end":512.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.16596875,"end":516.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.4228437500001,"end":534.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.7490937499999,"end":541.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.8703437500001,"end":549.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.83534375,"end":576.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.24034375,"end":582.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.1128437500001,"end":589.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.50846875,"end":602.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.0590937500001,"end":613.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.67346875,"end":614.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.5803437500001,"end":615.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.6140937499999,"end":616.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.89659375,"end":620.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.3390937500001,"end":621.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.7565937500001,"end":623.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.4440937500001,"end":626.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.5490937500001,"end":631.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.66221875,"end":638.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.00721875,"end":638.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.29409375,"end":651.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.0772187499999,"end":653.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.90784375,"end":667.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.36534375,"end":671.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.33096875,"end":674.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.84534375,"end":676.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.1359687500001,"end":680.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.36784375,"end":680.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.9540937500001,"end":681.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.7978437500001,"end":685.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.1684687500001,"end":686.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.2022187500002,"end":686.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.8559687500001,"end":688.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.18909375,"end":690.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.91034375,"end":693.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.30659375,"end":695.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.7703437499999,"end":697.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.0990937500001,"end":706.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.46909375,"end":714.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.23159375,"end":728.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.14909375,"end":734.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.17346875,"end":755.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":756.1997187500001,"end":756.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.22909375,"end":758.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.22034375,"end":761.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.07221875,"end":765.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.6497187500001,"end":766.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.8815937500001,"end":775.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.23034375,"end":777.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.8503437500001,"end":780.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.31409375,"end":781.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.59659375,"end":782.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.8115937500002,"end":785.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.4440937500001,"end":828.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.6609687500002,"end":832.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":832.35659375,"end":842.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.63346875,"end":874.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.80096875,"end":851.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":864.28409375,"end":865.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":874.9153437500001,"end":883.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.6228437500001,"end":886.4578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":886.6940937500001,"end":889.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.9172187500001,"end":903.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.2822187500001,"end":909.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.0322187500001,"end":916.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.9428437500001,"end":918.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":917.15346875,"end":917.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.56659375,"end":923.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":925.33784375,"end":926.97471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.829,"end":7.315,"text":"謝謝主席 左院長有請再請左院長備詢"},{"start":17.393,"end":41.845,"text":"劉維豪院長辛苦了這個很高興稍微雖然草野氛圍不慕但好歹在進法補償這件事情上面看到了有一點點轉圜的契機但無論如何無論如何今天下午到底會不會復會不曉得但是我想透過這個預算答詢的過程大家把話講清楚還是非常非常有必要的所以今天本期打算用這15分鐘就好好從法理情三個角度我們來討論一下"},{"start":42.785,"end":45.546,"text":"這幾個法律裡面有哪一條是硬性規定這個行政院必須要同意我們才能這樣修法"},{"start":70.837,"end":97.624,"text":"當然字眼上沒有他說是要徵詢但是另外一個程序問題就是必須要指出彌補資金之來源就增加的稅數多少錢大家要一個來源來我現在就再請問卓魁本期在內政委員會其實我們在上個會期業績不錯通過很多法案比如說民意代表知己條例上個會期其實也順利的修正通過請問院長在這個條例裡面我們有沒有特別去指明新增的裁員在哪裡"},{"start":98.834,"end":100.387,"text":"這個行政 如果行政同意了"},{"start":102.005,"end":102.485,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":133.172,"end":149.933,"text":"這個政策的所有事情的執行這個一定是設裁員嘛對不對但是不是每一件事情他都一定要用修法表明的方式所以我想院長你在這個地方去主張就是說你一定要續名裁員的時候其實反而在實務上的見解來講他其實是不適用的難道不是這樣嗎"},{"start":150.845,"end":174.611,"text":"我們處理的方式如果像剛剛委員所提的那幾個案子我們會把它放在我們的施政報告裡面或者放在我們的預算報告裡面那這個就表示它已經經過行政院了解整個預算的執行內容程序預算把它形成一個政策可以執行那就有資金的來源那如果沒有在原來的報告範圍當中突然跑出來一塊那就是在"},{"start":175.111,"end":175.812,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":194.825,"end":216.359,"text":"可是我也要跟院長直接條明的講法案審查的時候不見得每一件事情都一定會有共識那不然我們在立法院這裏面表決器幹嘛呢 對不對所以沒有共識的時候那當然就要透過正常的程序來表決那我要請問院長在這個修法的整個過程中從委員會的審查進到黨團協商最後交付這個大院表決有沒有哪一件事情違反了議事的程序應該沒有對不對"},{"start":218.652,"end":246.822,"text":"如果經過很嚴謹的程序,那就是法律,我們就必須遵守。對,所以我們今天從就法論法的角度來講,通過的是叫進法補償條例。即便憲法有講立法院不得為預算案增加之支出,這本席同意,但進法補償條例是法律案,也不是預算案,對不對?本席要花這麼多時間把它講清楚,不只是因為要幫我們的原住民弟兄討公道,也是因為本席是這個法案的共同提案人。我們希望立法院三讀通過的法律被尊重,這個我希望,"},{"start":247.842,"end":276.157,"text":"這個左院長必須要了解立法院的立場如果我們在這個法條上有所讓步或者是不堅持的話變成形成一定要你行政院同意的慣例那其實對於立法院是一種矮化對於台灣的憲政發展來講也不是一件正面的事情啦好 我是希望能夠互相的尊重把一個法案討論到最成熟因為這個牽涉到預算錢從哪裡來是很重要等一下我們在理的部分會討論一下預算的一些來源跟實務上的一些操作這個"},{"start":278.666,"end":284.453,"text":"再退萬不言我們今天就把話一次破到底真的行政院沒有同意嗎來我們看一下影片"},{"start":285.53,"end":286.531,"text":"主計長您會支持嗎?您覺得很多嗎?"},{"start":316.171,"end":337.103,"text":"委員長雖然速度有點快沒關係我幫你整理好這個時序3月1號吳立華委員的總諮詢就是講說金額要明定在法律透過法律的研議來辦理而這行政院長當初的陳建仁院長是同意的這個主計長陳建仁朱哲銘前主計長也講說經費符合法令任農編債預算我們就來照章執行3月5號高金素美委員總諮詢一樣是行政院長陳建仁"},{"start":337.483,"end":359.201,"text":"打詢說修法通過,我們就照修法的結果來做處理。在512號黨團協商的過程中,高金素美委員召集原民會副主委古仲,講說,倘若這個條文經過大院的三讀通過,我們就要依法來編列,希望立法院支持相關預算。其實在審查的過程中,行政方難道沒有同意嗎?院長"},{"start":360.863,"end":374.618,"text":"剛剛委員那段影片雖然很快我也聽得出來大家聽得出來文字上聲明也有講了很多次的如果、大概、倘若就是他設定了很多的條件如果通過、如果合法、如果怎麼樣所以這個必須要"},{"start":375.806,"end":394.82,"text":"滿足這個程序阿剛剛大部分的條件都是如果法律通過阿法律通過了沒我們剛剛講了嘛經過了嚴謹的程序三讀通過那當然就應該要執行就法論法你如果講說哪一條法律明定你要同意然後我們硬要衝突那當然就是一個我們站不住腳可是今天法沒有明定你一定要同意我們有沒有徵詢有沒有討論其實都有"},{"start":396.841,"end":418.917,"text":"前朝同意難道現在換了新人就不買單嗎?這樣恐怕有失風範所以從法律的角度我想這是一個與法有據的事情也沒什麼好爭議的我們今天就把話講清楚行政院在本案其實早就同意而且其實院長你也常常講政策其實都是有延續性的喜歡或不喜歡多少要有點承擔"},{"start":419.877,"end":440.565,"text":"如果說這個事情有雙標,恐怕是不太好的事情。從法律的角度我們要提醒卓院長。第二個部分我們要從理的角度來論述一下這個禁法補償的道理。首先談預算的從編跟修正過去的一些案例。很多人講說預算連續阻擋,好像都是在野黨的責任一樣。當然民意調查不這麼認為。"},{"start":441.365,"end":468.319,"text":"是因為現在時代很發達大家都可以把話講得非常清楚因為我們遵循憲法這個70條不得為預算之增加我不能等到原民會把預算送進來的時候我再講說哎呀這20億不夠我把它改成40億那就違憲了所以我們唯一能夠要求行政院依法編列的武器只好在程序委員會或者是在大院的時候先行阻擋的用意是希望你可以提出具體可行的修正方案"},{"start":468.899,"end":496.582,"text":"所以我想這件事情其實講得非常清楚那有沒有相關的案例呢?其實是有的啊比如說民國93年中央政府的新四大建設特別預算他就試射了一些資源的重新分配所以處理方式撤回並且提出新的相關預算案94年這個審理95年中央政府總預算的時候因為老農津貼的增加所以提出了相關的修正97年同樣擴大內需的公共建設的特別預算案也一樣都有試射預算內容跟科目的調整"},{"start":497.222,"end":512.396,"text":"所以一樣是提出修正到101年的中央政府總預算老農今天再次提高一樣用修正案的方式來處理所以說我們之所以沒有辦法讓他那麼早復違是因為在等待行政院提出一個務實的修正方案"},{"start":513.237,"end":535.186,"text":"既然法有明文 前朝也承諾那這院長本來就要有所承擔必須要提出編列的項目好 我知道院長你可能要講這個是裁員可能很短促或者是壓力很大這本來就不能理解但是認真說起來如果我們從這幾年預算光看中央政府預算的執行角度其實不會沒有裁員為什麼呢112年的決算這個稅計剩餘是5億8千萬中間還有保留了10億"},{"start":542.53,"end":556.552,"text":"加起來其實就15億啊就你沒有執行完的預算在你中央政府這一大包幾千億的預算裡面沒有執行完的就十幾億啊特別這個前瞻計畫為什麼會跑出第5期不也是因為預算沒有執行完所以我用第5期的方式來做處理嗎"},{"start":557.173,"end":581.948,"text":"到了今年113年我們正在執行的預算到第三季也就是到9月的統計資料有17個部會還有超過15億以上的勝利原民會還有25.88億的勝利當然院長你會講這個還有一季嘛有一季完之後大家就會趕工就把它執行完畢但本期今天要提這個概念其實只是講這麼一大包的中央預算三兆多兩兆多三兆多的預算如果"},{"start":583.209,"end":612.869,"text":"稍作檢討,可以節省的案子節省一下對不對,可以調整的項目做一下調整二十億相較於三兆兩千億它其實是非常非常小的數字啊它甚至都不構成你前面講的這個預算稅數的大幅增加我們如果用中央政府總預算的角度來看所以不會有裁員的問題啊只要政府願意花一點點心思稍微檢討一下各部會哪一些地方可以省一省是不是這個二十億的裁員就跑出來了就透過預算的方式來做處理不就好了嗎"},{"start":614.09,"end":630.724,"text":"委員說的對的一部分因為從數字算數問題來看確實可以如此但是如果從原則問題來看那斷不可這樣子做因為這樣子我們在提出的施政報告之外突然多出來的一個政策、一筆預算"},{"start":632.185,"end":647.639,"text":"如果這個形成一個可行的慣例將來行政院的施政報告那變成廢紙一張了你擔心形成慣例這個事情我們最後的時候花一點點時間來做討論但我現在目前講的是其實技術上或者是從金額的角度來出發我們純粹就預算的調度"},{"start":649.16,"end":676.685,"text":"算數問題是可以解釋但是原則問題是不可以改變的因為你的原則是政治問題我們最後的時間再來處理那既然其實你都談到了這個預算可行其實本質上其實它就是個分配問題今天大家去談淨法補償大家積極的幫原住民爭取預算其實這是不分朝野的大家用意是什麼呢我們希望對原住民好一點嘛院長你有沒有了解一下說原民的這個總預算佔總預算的比例是多少"},{"start":678.188,"end":686.453,"text":"明年度我們編了124億對不對?那比例是多少?那在增加的比例是比整個預算增加的比例高喔!真的嗎?來!數字在這裡齁!這個113年總預算2,800億、原民會預算109億這個0.38億"},{"start":695.834,"end":719.835,"text":"再往前其實歷年來都差不了多少啦多的時候到百分之0.4不是4%是0.4%一%都不到半%都不到這就是我們政府對於原住民的資源投入啊我們賴信德總統曾經講我要當原住民的朋友我一直和原住民站在一起其實大家都希望幫原住民爭取更好的權益但是什麼樣叫更好的權益為什麼大家講說"},{"start":720.856,"end":734.181,"text":"不能夠不能夠把這樣子的一個這個預算編在基金裡面來執行其實就是因為基金本來他也就是要幫原住民做事的開支嘛如果你用挪移的方式改由基金來支出的話他其實實質上會造成原住民預算的排擠"},{"start":735.219,"end":755.527,"text":"既然今天不管是這個五黨級的委員、國民黨的委員、民進黨的委員大家去談進法補償的時候都是希望在透過法令的修正之後政府能夠多撥一點預算改變分配的邏輯加大對於原住民朋友的政策挹注這個才是政策的本意嘛這個我想也是情有可原不是嗎院長"},{"start":756.26,"end":785.152,"text":"我會歡迎也支持我們在政策的討論上從政策來討論之後彼此共同找出一個裁員像剛剛委員所說的我們用基金有委員有意見我們用二倍金有意見我們用最佳預算也有意見所以這個資金的來源到現在如何解決我希望我們能夠再透過朝野的協商找出一個大家都接受那我們以後建立這樣一個憲法跟法律的規範原則底下這次找一個如何能夠解決接受的方案"},{"start":786.453,"end":806.988,"text":"這我也幫院長稍微算了一下雖然我沒有寫在螢幕上面但是即便增加因為你今年編明年的預算的時候你的進法補償是由原住民的公務基金支出28億撥給基金從基金的部分支出嘛那至少收支是對列的之所以之前講說不能夠挪在基金裡面是因為他收支沒有辦法平衡啊久而久之基金就掏空了"},{"start":807.548,"end":824.147,"text":"好,現在由公務預算來支持基金,它現在是對列的狀態,但是你沒有編組嘛,現在就是個問題,叫28億,如果把28億調漲成,就是按照6萬塊的政策邏輯去做編列的話,還會增加13億左右的開支,即便把這個原住民的預算再增加13億,這個比例也不過就是從0.391%變成0.43%"},{"start":828.752,"end":833.496,"text":"真的不是一筆大錢,但是對於原住民朋友來講,他其實是很溫暖。最後還有一分鐘的時間,當然就談政治的問題。很多人講說朝野僵局很難處理,但是我始終覺得行政段要負更多一點的責任。"},{"start":850.791,"end":874.241,"text":"為什麼這樣說呢?立法院狀況本來就很複雜,各黨黨團有不同的意見。立法權分拆在113個委員的手上,可是行政權是相對集中的。享有相對集中優勢的人難道不應該負起更多的責任嗎?所以我想喔,院長當初上台的時候其實本身期待你是一個通情達理的人嘛。在以前政治人物的人設裡面,你也是善於溝通,不見得占第一線這樣的角色。"},{"start":874.997,"end":893.432,"text":"那我常常想如果你可以用這樣子的一個心態好好來跟各個黨的原住民的立委做一下溝通跟說明也許這個朝野僵局不會持續這麼久啊但這個是你不能期待立法院自己來處理啊對不對院長應該有更主動一點的心態吧你剛剛講我覺得蠻好至少我們聽到說追加預算可行"},{"start":893.812,"end":922.45,"text":"那是不是有一個更清楚的方案比如說什麼時候要來具體的提出經過什麼樣的一個情況取得三黨的共識這個預算的僵局也許就解開了那請問院長有沒有具體的方案我們除了原民會的說明之外我一直尊重大院內部所以我們是透過朝野黨團在做溝通我們期待看到一個具體有效的解決方案這個會影響之後預算審查的節奏也好或者是性態也好這裡面都寫得出來了好不好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長的備詢"},{"start":925.407,"end":926.414,"text":"接下來請登記第21位"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":543,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時31分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：院長辛苦了。很高興，雖然朝野氛圍不睦，但好歹在禁伐補償這件事情上面看到有一點點轉圜的契機，但無論如何，今天下午到底會不會付委，不曉得，但是我想透過預算答詢的過程，大家把話講清楚，還是非常有必要的。所以今天本席打算用這15分鐘，好好從法、理、情三個角度，我們來討論一下禁伐補償的正當性，我們話不多說，直接進入主題。","第一個，我們從法的層面來討論，其實我聽了很多委員的質詢，包含卓院長在媒體前面的答復等等，卓院長都屢次提及所謂的憲法第七十條、預算法第九十一條及財政紀律法第五條，對不對？但我就想請問一下院長，這幾個法律裡面有哪一條是硬性規定行政院必須要同意，我們才能這樣修法？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然字眼上沒有，它是說要徵詢。"],["牛委員煦庭：要徵詢，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：但另外一個程序問題就是必須要指出彌補資金之來源，就是增加的歲出有多少錢，大家要有個來源。"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在再請問卓揆，本席在內政委員會，其實我們上個會期業績不錯，通過很多法案，比如民意代表支給條例在上個會期其實也順利修正通過，請問院長，在這個條例裡面，我們有沒有特別去指明新增的財源在哪裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果行政院同意了之後，我們會找出它必須在預算裡面怎麼去跟歲出做怎麼樣比例的分配。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們增加了地方民代的助理費、增加了一些里長年終獎金等等，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，很多。"],["牛委員煦庭：它是不是修法，然後增加了政府的開支？沒錯，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：上個禮拜才剛剛在內政委員會順利討論完畢的消防法，我們讓政府的業務負擔稍微增加，我們也讓義消人員有比照基層消防員的健檢待遇等等，它其實也增加了政府的開支，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以政策所有事情的執行一定事涉財源，對不對？但不是每一件事情都一定要用修法表明的方式，所以我想院長在這個地方去主張，就是你一定要敘明財源的時候，其實在實務上的見解來講，反而是不適用的，難道不是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們處理方式，如果像剛剛委員所提的幾個案子，我們會把它放在我們的施政報告裡面，或者放在我們的預算報告裡面，這個就表示它已經經過行政院了解整個預算的執行內容、程序、預算，把它形成一個可以執行的政策，就有資金的來源。如果沒有，在原來的報告範圍當中突然跑出來一塊，那就是在整個施政報告之外的，就必須有資金來源。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以到目前為止，就法論法的角度，對不對，其實法律沒有明定一定要你同意，我想這是共識嘛？法律沒有明文規定，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：它是寫徵詢。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們互相同理一下，院長會希望在法條審理的過程中，儘量的來達成共識跟同意，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：尊重、互相尊重，是的。"],["牛委員煦庭：可是我也要跟院長直接挑明的講，就是法案審查的時候，不見得每一件事情都一定會有共識，不然我們在立法院這邊有表決器幹嘛，對不對？所以沒有共識的時候，那當然就要透過正常的程序來表決。我要請問院長，在修法的整個過程中，從委員會的審查進到黨團協商，最後交付大院表決，有沒有哪一件事情違反了議事的程序？應該沒有，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果經過很嚴謹的程序……"],["牛委員煦庭：那是一個嚴謹的……"],["卓院長榮泰：那就是法律……"],["牛委員煦庭：它就是法律嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就必須遵守。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，所以我們今天從就法論法的角度來講，通過的是叫禁伐補償條例，即便憲法有表示立法院不得為預算案增加支出，這本席同意，但禁伐補償條例是法律案，也不是預算案，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席要花這麼多時間把它講清楚，不只是因為要幫我們的原住民弟兄討公道，也是因為本席是這個法案的共同提案人，我們希望立法院三讀通過的法律被尊重，我希望卓院長必須要了解立法院的立場。如果我們在這個法條上有所讓步或者是不堅持的話，變成形成一定要行政院同意的慣例，那其實對於立法院是一種矮化，對於臺灣的憲政發展來講，也不是一件正面的事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：我是希望能夠互相的尊重，把一個法案討論到最成熟，因為這個牽涉到預算，錢從哪裡來是很重要的，有沒有這個事情……"],["牛委員煦庭：等一下我們在理的部分，會討論預算的一些來源跟實務上的一些操作。再退萬步言，我們今天就把話一次破到底，真的行政院沒有同意嗎？來，我們看一下影片，雖然有點快。","（播放影片）"],["牛委員煦庭：院長，雖然速度有點快，沒關係，我有幫你整理好時序，3月1號伍麗華委員的總質詢就有講，金額要明定在法律，透過法律的研議來辦理。當初的行政院陳建仁院長是同意的；前主計長朱澤民也講說，經費符合法令，認同編在預算，我們就來照章執行。3月5號，高金素梅委員總質詢，一樣是行政院長陳建仁答詢說，修法通過，我們就照修法的結果來做處理。在5月2號黨團協商的過程中，由高金素梅委員召集，原民會的副主委谷縱說，倘若這個條文經過大院的三讀通過，我們就要依法來編列，希望立法院支持相關預算。其實在審查的過程中，行政方難道沒有同意嗎？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員那段影片雖然很快，我也聽得出來，大家聽得出來，文字上這邊也有，講了很多次的如果、大概、倘若，就是設定了很多的條件，如果通過、如果合法、如果怎麼樣……"],["牛委員煦庭：對嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以這個必須要滿足程序。"],["牛委員煦庭：剛剛大部分的條件都是如果法律通過，法律通過了沒？我們剛剛講了嘛，經過了嚴謹的程序，三讀通過，那當然就應該要執行。所以就法論法，你如果講哪一條法律明定你要同意，然後我們硬要衝突，那當然就是我們站不住腳，可是今天法沒有明定你一定要同意，我們有沒有徵詢、有沒有討論？其實都有，前朝同意，難道現在換了新人就不買單嗎？這樣恐怕有失風範。所以從法律的角度，我想這是一個於法有據的事情，也沒什麼好爭議的，我們今天就把話講清楚，行政院在本案其實早就同意，而且院長你也常常講，政策其實都是有延續性的，喜歡或不喜歡，多少要有點承擔，如果說這個事情有雙標，恐怕是不太好的事情……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["牛委員煦庭：從法律的角度，我們要提醒卓院長。","第二個部分，我們要從理的角度來論述一下禁伐補償的道理，首先談預算的重編跟修正在過去的一些案例，很多人講預算連續阻擋，好像都是在野黨的責任一樣，當然民意調查不這麼認為，現在時代很發達，大家都可以把話講得非常清楚。因為我們遵循憲法第七十條，不得為預算之增加，我不能等到原民會把預算送進來的時候，我再講說這20億不夠，我把它改成40億，那就違憲了。所以我們唯一能夠要求行政院依法編列的武器，只好在程序委員會或者是在大院的時候先行阻擋，用意是希望你可以提出具體可行的修正方案，所以我想這件事情其實講得非常清楚。","有沒有相關的案例呢？其實是有的，比如民國93年中央政府的新十大建設特別預算，它就事涉了一些資源的重新分配，所以處理方式是撤回，並且提出新的相關預算案。94年審理95年中央政府總預算的時候，因為有老農津貼的增加，所以提出了相關的修正。97年同樣的，擴大內需的公共建設特別預算案，也一樣，都事涉預算內容跟科目的調整，所以一樣是提出修正，到100年、101年的中央政府總預算，老農津貼再次提高，一樣用修正案的方式來處理。","所以我們之所以沒有辦法讓它那麼早付委，是因為在等待行政院提出一個務實的修正方案。既然法有明文，前朝也承諾，院長本來就要有所承擔，必須要提出編列的項目。我知道院長可能要講，這個是財源，可能很短促，或者是壓力很大，這個本席不會不能理解，但是認真說起來，如果我們從這幾年的預算，光看中央政府預算的執行角度，其實不會沒有財源，為什麼呢？112年的決算，歲計賸餘是5億8,000萬，中間還有保留的10億，加起來其實是15億，就是你沒有執行完的預算，在你中央政府這一大包、幾千億的預算裡面，沒有執行完的就有十幾億。特別是前瞻計畫，為什麼會跑出第5期？不也是因為預算沒有執行完，所以用第5期的方式來做處理嗎？","到了今（113）年，我們正在執行的預算到了第3季，也就是到9月的統計資料，有17個部會還有超過15億以上的賸餘，原民會還有25.88億的賸餘。當然院長你會講還有一季，之後大家就會趕工把它執行完畢，但本席今天要提這個概念，其實只是要講，這麼一大包的中央預算，兩兆多、三兆多的預算，如果稍作檢討，可以節省的案子節省一下，對不對？可以調整的項目做一下調整，20億相較於3兆2,000億，它其實是非常非常小的數字，它甚至都不構成你前面講的預算歲出的大幅增加。我們如果用中央政府總預算的角度來看，所以不會有財源的問題，只要政府願意花一點點心思，稍微檢討一下各部會就哪些地方可以省一省，是不是這20億的財源就跑出來了？就透過預算的方式來做處理不就好了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員說對一部分，因為從數字、算數問題來看，確實可以如此，但是如果從原則問題來看，斷不可這樣子做，因為這樣子我們在提出的施政報告之外，突然多出來的一個政策、一筆預算，如果這形成一個可行的慣例，將來行政院的施政報告會變成廢紙一張。"],["牛委員煦庭：你擔心形成慣例這個事情，我們最後再花一點點時間來做討論，但我現在講的是，其實從技術上或者是從金額的角度出發，我們純粹就預算的調度來講，它是技術可行的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：算數問題是可以解釋，但是原則問題是不可以改變的。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，因為你的原則就是政治問題，我們最後的時間再來處理。既然你都談到了這個預算可行，其實本質上，它就是個分配問題。今天大家在談禁伐補償，大家積極地幫原住民爭取預算，其實這是不分朝野的，大家的用意是什麼呢？我們希望對原住民好一點嘛，院長你有沒有了解一下，原民的預算占總預算的比例是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年度我們編了122億。"],["牛委員煦庭：122億，對不對？那比例是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：但它增加的比例是比整個預算增加的比例高喔！"],["牛委員煦庭：真的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：來，數字在這裡，113年總預算是2兆8,000億，原民會預算是109億，這個比例是0.381%。再往前，其實歷年來都差不了多少啦！多的時候到0.4%，不是4%，是0.4%，1%都不到，連0.5%都不到，這就是我們政府對於原住民的資源投入啊！","賴清德總統曾經講：我要當原住民的朋友，我一直和原住民站在一起。其實大家都希望幫原住民爭取更好的權益，但是什麼樣叫更好的權益？為什麼大家講，不能夠把這樣子的一個預算編在基金裡面來執行，其實就是因為基金本來就是要幫原住民做事的一個開支，如果你用挪移的方式改由基金來支出的話，它其實實質上會造成原住民預算的排擠。既然今天不管是無黨籍的委員、國民黨的委員、民進黨的委員，大家去談禁伐補償的時候，都是希望在透過法令的修正之後，政府能夠多撥一點預算，改變分配的邏輯，加大對於原住民朋友的政策挹注，這個才是政策的本意，這個我想也是情有可原，院長，不是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會歡迎、也支持我們在政策的討論上，從政策面來討論之後，彼此共同找出一個財源，像剛剛委員所說的，我們用基金，有人有意見；我們用二備金，有意見；我們用追加預算，也有意見，所以這個資金的來源到現在要如何解決，我希望我們能夠再透過朝野協商，找出一個大家都接受的，我們以後建立這樣一個憲法跟法律的規範，在原則底下，這次找一個如何能夠解決、接受的方案。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個我也幫院長稍微算了一下，雖然我沒有寫在螢幕上面，但是即便增加，因為你編今年跟明年預算的時候，禁伐補償是由原住民的公務基金支出28億，撥給基金，從基金的部分支出嘛！至少收支是對列的，之所以之前講不能夠挪在基金裡面，是因為它收支沒有辦法平衡，久而久之基金就掏空了。好，現在由公務預算來支持基金，它現在是對列的狀態，但是你沒有編足嘛！現在就是個問題，28億，如果把28億調漲成按照6萬塊的政策邏輯去做編列的話，還會增加13億左右的開支，即便把原住民的預算再增加13億，這個比例也不過就是從0.391%變成0.43%，真的不是一筆大錢，但是對於原住民朋友來講，其實是很溫暖的。"],["卓院長榮泰：真的，委員，我也說我不是在意幾億、百分之零點多，不是這個問題，是那幾個憲法跟法律的條文，我們必須把它履行完整的程序。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，最後還有1分鐘的時間，當然就談政治的問題，很多人講說朝野僵局很難處理，但是我始終覺得行政端要負更多一點的責任……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們願意。"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼這樣說呢？立法院狀況本來就很複雜，各黨黨團有不同意見，一個立法權分拆在113個委員的手上，可是行政權是相對集中的，享有相對集中優勢的人，難道不應該負起更多的責任嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們願意。"],["牛委員煦庭：院長當初上臺的時候，其實本席期待你是個通情達理的人，在以前政治人物的人設裡面，你也是善於溝通，不見得站第一線這樣的角色，我常常想如果你可以用這樣子的心態，好好來跟各個黨的原住民立委做一下溝通跟說明，也許這個朝野僵局不會持續這麼久，你不能期待立法院自己來處理啊！對不對？院長，應該要有更主動一點的心態吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們……"],["牛委員煦庭：我覺得你剛剛講的滿好的，至少我們聽到說追加預算可行，那是不是有一個更清楚的方案？比如說什麼時候要來具體的提出，經過什麼樣的一個情況，取得三黨的共識，這個預算的僵局也許就解開了，請問院長有沒有具體的方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，除了原民會的說明之外，我一直尊重大院內部，所以我們是透過朝野黨團在做溝通。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們期待看到一個具體有效的解決方案，這個會影響之後預算審查的節奏也好，或者是心態也好，好不好？謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，這裡面都寫出來了，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第21號劉建國委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156499","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156499","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41f9830289ff86102ae3fd33acf0e4cf8bc33455cf26ecaca93c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:05:08 - 10:21:05","影片長度":"00:15:57","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T10:05:08+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T10:21:05+08:00","duration":957,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14.594093750000003,"end":18.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.74534375,"end":20.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":29.984093750000003,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.304718750000003,"end":30.372218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.372218750000002,"end":30.473468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31.992218750000006,"end":32.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":32.852843750000005,"end":34.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":34.79346875,"end":41.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":41.69534375,"end":46.470968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":47.314718750000004,"end":49.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":49.407218750000006,"end":50.352218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":50.85846875,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":54.08159375,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":54.891593750000006,"end":57.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":58.13159375,"end":63.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":63.70034375,"end":65.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":66.31596875000001,"end":67.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":68.18909375,"end":72.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":73.43721875,"end":78.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":79.25909375,"end":82.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":83.15721875,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":88.79346875,"end":89.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":89.55284375000001,"end":94.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":95.05409375,"end":97.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":97.65284375,"end":98.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":98.69909375,"end":102.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":102.66471875,"end":104.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":105.44909375,"end":112.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":113.14409375000001,"end":114.79784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":115.37159375,"end":116.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":116.94096875000001,"end":123.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":123.57284375,"end":127.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":127.67346875000001,"end":143.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.57534375,"end":134.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":145.00409375,"end":148.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":149.10471875000002,"end":155.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":155.63534375,"end":156.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":156.90096875,"end":156.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":157.84596875,"end":160.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":160.42784375000002,"end":161.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":161.99721875,"end":164.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":165.22034375,"end":166.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":166.48596875,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":167.95409375,"end":169.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":170.09721875000002,"end":178.11284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":170.14784375000002,"end":171.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":172.17284375,"end":174.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":178.18034375000002,"end":183.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":183.02346875,"end":188.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":189.13221875000002,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":194.78534375,"end":215.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.89346875,"end":205.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":215.79471875000002,"end":217.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":217.65096875,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":219.89534375000002,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":224.73846875,"end":227.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":227.53971875000002,"end":231.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.70846875,"end":227.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":227.96159375000002,"end":227.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":232.36596875,"end":236.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":237.59721875000002,"end":238.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.93034375000002,"end":244.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":241.66409375,"end":244.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.05596875,"end":252.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":249.34221875000003,"end":250.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":253.22346875000002,"end":255.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":255.60284375,"end":262.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":262.57221875,"end":270.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":271.65096875,"end":273.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":273.45659375,"end":274.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":275.73471875,"end":285.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":281.94471875,"end":282.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":284.07096875,"end":285.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":285.47159375,"end":288.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":288.32346875,"end":292.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":293.50409375000004,"end":294.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":295.32659375000003,"end":297.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":298.61721875,"end":299.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":299.89971875000003,"end":304.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":302.53221875,"end":302.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":303.84846875,"end":311.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":311.50971875000005,"end":312.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":312.45471875000004,"end":312.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":313.24784375,"end":313.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":313.26471875000004,"end":314.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":314.81721875,"end":315.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":315.18846875,"end":317.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":318.78284375000004,"end":322.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":322.83284375,"end":324.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":326.66346875,"end":334.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":331.92846875000004,"end":332.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":334.47659375,"end":339.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":340.33221875000004,"end":345.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":345.83346875,"end":351.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":351.60471875,"end":359.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":358.99596875000003,"end":363.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":365.05409375000005,"end":366.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":366.62346875000003,"end":375.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":375.49971875,"end":377.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":378.72284375000004,"end":381.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":381.96284375000005,"end":386.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":386.82284375,"end":387.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":388.52721875000003,"end":390.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.62846875,"end":389.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":391.37909375000004,"end":392.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":392.88096875,"end":396.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":397.06596875,"end":398.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":399.51284375,"end":400.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":401.53784375000004,"end":401.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":401.94284375,"end":403.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":404.52471875000003,"end":406.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":407.30909375000005,"end":409.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":409.67159375,"end":412.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":413.53596875000005,"end":413.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":414.86909375000005,"end":416.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":417.13034375,"end":418.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":418.93596875000003,"end":420.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":421.53471875,"end":422.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":423.40784375000004,"end":424.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":425.11221875,"end":439.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":439.96221875000003,"end":443.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":444.40034375000005,"end":447.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":447.77534375000005,"end":457.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":458.35596875000005,"end":460.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":460.71846875000006,"end":463.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":464.76846875,"end":465.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":464.97096875000005,"end":465.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.62909375000004,"end":471.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.75471875000005,"end":475.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":474.94409375000004,"end":478.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.13784375000006,"end":482.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":482.50409375000004,"end":485.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.53784375000004,"end":483.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.17471875,"end":494.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":494.41784375000003,"end":496.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":496.96596875000006,"end":497.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":497.82659375000003,"end":502.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":502.73721875,"end":506.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":507.10784375000003,"end":509.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":510.85409375000006,"end":524.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.35909375,"end":519.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.0334687500001,"end":524.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.53971875,"end":530.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":529.99034375,"end":532.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":532.65659375,"end":543.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":542.27534375,"end":548.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":548.87346875,"end":552.0459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":552.63659375,"end":558.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":557.29409375,"end":559.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":559.55534375,"end":561.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":562.1203437500001,"end":563.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":564.34784375,"end":565.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":567.6215937500001,"end":569.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":570.5915937500001,"end":578.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.7040937500001,"end":580.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":580.07534375,"end":583.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":583.83846875,"end":595.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":595.0603437500001,"end":603.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":597.92909375,"end":599.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.51534375,"end":599.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":603.7509687500001,"end":618.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":606.7547187499999,"end":607.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":619.3772187500001,"end":621.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.24596875,"end":626.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.8359687500001,"end":630.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":629.31659375,"end":631.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.56534375,"end":634.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":634.7334687499999,"end":635.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":635.0203437499999,"end":645.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":645.58409375,"end":659.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":659.4384687500001,"end":659.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":659.6240937500002,"end":665.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":666.4584687500001,"end":669.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":670.5928437500002,"end":674.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":675.7734687500001,"end":679.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":679.80659375,"end":687.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":687.7547187499999,"end":688.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.8515937500001,"end":689.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":688.93596875,"end":694.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.7709687500001,"end":692.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":694.94346875,"end":697.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.7109687500001,"end":698.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":698.06534375,"end":702.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":700.5459687500002,"end":705.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":704.7140937500001,"end":717.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":717.15096875,"end":721.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":717.43784375,"end":717.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.80846875,"end":727.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":727.27596875,"end":730.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.43159375,"end":730.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.0222187500001,"end":746.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":739.1897187500001,"end":741.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.2434687500001,"end":757.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":756.99284375,"end":760.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":761.17784375,"end":764.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":764.99159375,"end":769.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":769.34534375,"end":772.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":773.8172187499999,"end":782.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":783.16596875,"end":784.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":784.7522187500001,"end":791.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":791.83971875,"end":800.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":801.15471875,"end":833.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":834.1453437500002,"end":836.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.60909375,"end":842.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":842.21159375,"end":845.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":845.6372187500001,"end":859.0022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":857.83784375,"end":860.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":860.74034375,"end":864.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":865.12784375,"end":866.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":867.0009687500001,"end":867.9797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":868.35096875,"end":875.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":875.3203437500001,"end":879.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":878.30721875,"end":882.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":882.6609687500002,"end":902.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":902.8940937500001,"end":904.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":904.78409375,"end":924.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":924.9497187500001,"end":925.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":925.6922187500002,"end":926.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":927.29534375,"end":932.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":948.1865937500002,"end":952.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":954.02534375,"end":955.8815937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.919,"end":20.241,"text":"院長謝謝,麻煩請我們行政院長、卓榮泰卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。進步緩忙。"},{"start":34.861,"end":62.531,"text":"我們最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告是按照多年來的慣例業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查一條一條審該減、該刪、該動就來審查所以這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後我在主席台特別講說很遺憾我們接下來沒有預算可以審"},{"start":63.769,"end":78.099,"text":"所以總預算現在被擋在你也不能說他退回了他就擋在陰陽魔戒卡在中間在程序委員會進退不得大概六七次了也不知道未來怎麼樣所以本期今天要詢問就是"},{"start":79.295,"end":103.726,"text":"假設總預算是這樣狀態我們未來的政務該怎麼處理因為國家還是要運作不管是國防、經濟、交通建設所以目前我們遇到的狀況是如果這個總預算持續這個狀態下去那明年的新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛那我們以往有新增項目預算在各部會其實都會做一些預製作業"},{"start":105.475,"end":126.411,"text":"比方說像我們國防部明年要配發兩萬多把的新的步槍ST112要給我們的單位用可是現在總預算前景不明到底要不要先預劃預劃完了預算都還是不明這個後續會不會影響我今天主要是針對這些因應的作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長"},{"start":127.762,"end":156.493,"text":"比方說像軍公教人員明年要調薪3%因應物價的指數也因應我們現在整個整體經濟我們希望能夠經濟成長共享讓公教人員也好甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲目前為止因為明年的過年蠻快的一月底就過年了有關這個公教人員調薪3%如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動那院長我們打算怎麼辦"},{"start":158.039,"end":160.755,"text":"這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難因為在"},{"start":162.168,"end":187.866,"text":"軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中,中央政府本身122億,要補助給地方90億,但重要的是...地方90億...要補助給地方90億...地方議會現在心災無損...地方自己要編的是50億,那這個沒有過,他們不曉得怎麼樣編,這個來源,裁法源就沒有了。我今天就要請問,因為我們主計長我們老朋友了,我從議員就認識你,我現在就要問這個問題啊,"},{"start":189.227,"end":214.834,"text":"因為明年度的軍公教條新是很多項目裡面一項我只用這當例子270億我地方政府要編50億我為什麼要編50億呢因為中央補助我90億嘛這另外又牽涉到財劃法你把錢都弄掉了將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了所以財劃法其實要好好討論不要這樣急救張啦昨天那一幕真的是難看而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂我回到我命題本身"},{"start":215.834,"end":232.913,"text":"你中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算也在開議會當中然後我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道所以我請教主計長或者我們的院長以這個命題來講軍公教調薪3%你們現在開始作業了嗎"},{"start":237.619,"end":251.47,"text":"有沒有辦法開始作業?這個是人總那邊在負責。錢沒有著落怎麼準備?是,所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放。那我就請教人總。他作業程序是人總這邊來說明。"},{"start":253.251,"end":274.525,"text":"你們有沒有預置作業先準備好如果我們韓國院長協調成功開始預算開始討論去執行了我相信這預算大家也沒有爭議那到時候過年前該條新的條新村里長的1.5個月新增的部分該給就給但現在不明嘛現在不明嘛就卡在那裡啊人長你們現在有沒有預置作業"},{"start":276.235,"end":299.37,"text":"現在整個我跟委員報告一下現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後我們才會進到所以你現在沒有作業我們現在等於就是Pending在那裡Pending在那裡所以如果持續這個狀況下去最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查或者都不給你審查那這三拍要不要跳"},{"start":300.309,"end":304.27,"text":"另外一個次差的狀況,過了黨的6次、7次、8次、9次開始審查,來不來得及過年前給人家。"},{"start":327.184,"end":327.504,"text":"我這樣詮釋對不對?"},{"start":351.656,"end":354.92,"text":"我跟委員報告啦,其實這個問題喔,可以發展過,我們就還有機會,過年期間就發展得稍微...那你說這句話就是,如果照聽書,其實總預算案我們現在應該在審查啦"},{"start":365.077,"end":371.483,"text":"因為延宕,所以這個作業會慢下來是必然的啦,它已經必然了。但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話,它就會不見嘛,它就沒了嘛。我這樣說沒錯嘛。"},{"start":388.601,"end":394.286,"text":"我另外一個案子,人長可以先請回,像國防目前新增的項目,公開的部分69.5億,但機密的部分我就不講了。"},{"start":414.941,"end":443.405,"text":"新增的部分我們看第二頁我這邊就要請教院長了像我們潛艦國造有20億後續建那我們都知道潛艦國造後續建不是我方自己要造我們還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友冒著被中國經濟制裁甚至於中國去恐嚇他們不可以跟台灣做生意這一些技術協助也好這一些重要的裝備商也好"},{"start":445.212,"end":463.209,"text":"臺灣後續建如果沒有,他沒有必要冒這個險。臺灣如果內部有分歧,預算有問題,他也沒有必要冒這個險啦吼。所以顧立雄部長已經上來了吼。我現在一定要請教就是,目前預算Handing在那個地方都不審查。對於我們前瞻國造後續建你們有沒有什麼計畫?"},{"start":464.787,"end":466.048,"text":"中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區"},{"start":486.082,"end":509.356,"text":"國軍網路環島的第二路由還有我們一些機密的建案,這個等等如果沒有能夠順利審議的話,就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。顧部長,我現在問的問題就是,現在的真實狀況就是總預算卡在那裡,沒有送進來嘛。你們能不能有前置作業,比方說跟這個廠商說,我們會做,只是預算現在還沒有通過。"},{"start":511.059,"end":531.649,"text":"還是你們會遇到困難,連這個都沒有辦法,變成要等預算明朗化,才能去不管是供應商的穩固,或者我們國內自製的部分的預備作業,你們現在到底有沒有辦法先前置作業先做?國行的預算都一定要尊重大院的一個決議,通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。沒過根本連談都沒辦法談齁?"},{"start":532.811,"end":560.172,"text":"沒過的話當然沒有辦法因為我們行政立法的相互讓我們提出預算那當然還是要大院要通過才可以軍公教人員的調整待遇這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理但是人民這個健康的需求實在一日不可等這種國際的軍購的合作更有國際的信用那程度是更嚴重議員長你要講健康需求像那個抗癌新藥的50億"},{"start":562.145,"end":589.361,"text":"你有沒有想過那慢一個月兩個月對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別那個Pending那個卡在那裡影響大我就要問顧部長我們前建後續建其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙嗎這個預算卡在那裡會不會影響他們的意願因為我們現在就是說明年如果那個原型建的"},{"start":595.092,"end":618.786,"text":"其實20億的潛艦預算佔比不大,可能是一個態度,因為我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後我們再來處理後續艦的預算,這個我個人支持,但是我們國家要展現一個態度說,來,我這邊有點像deposit money,就是有點像預訂金,我這20億過,表示我們國家會做這個決心,因為佔整個的比例很低,"},{"start":619.426,"end":633.664,"text":"但連這個都卡到問題的時候那個後續件的那個比如說我們還有很多輸出許可還有很多這個次承包商他作業上他就停下來了他會他如果不過的話他整個就會轉向"},{"start":635.91,"end":656.736,"text":"蘇蘇許可要時間,蘇蘇許可也考量到各國的他們國家的國內政治局勢當局勢變化,今年有40幾個國家改選當他們國家局勢變化,原來有的會不會變沒有了這個是我們現在在擔憂的嘛我另外講一個是我們自己可控的我們明年要配發25000把左右新式步槍,這個T112嘛"},{"start":660.318,"end":669.386,"text":"新式步槍提升步槍兵戰力,預算卡在這裡,我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎?還是要等預算?"},{"start":675.879,"end":692.291,"text":"生殖中心應該還是可以來做啦齁但是問題是這個預算如果沒有通過的話那這個經費沒有辦法撥下去的話那這個生殖中心可能會面你要跳票不是那個是國防部對生殖中心跳票因為這簽了一個訂單嘛兩萬五千把"},{"start":694.96,"end":720.78,"text":"他要預罪製造步槍要時間的要先預購材料那些鋼材啦什麼槍管的材料都要預購的沒有辦法有機會來指引這些東西因為這牽扯到我們的正規我們第一線的主力戰鬥部隊還有後備部隊因為他配發T1122後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新接裝跟下一代的步槍所以這個延宕下去會不會影響到明年我們配發的作業"},{"start":723.068,"end":736.507,"text":"如果沒有辦法如期的在這個會期通過當然會影響因為還有我還要跟委員特別報告因為現在我們有很多這個類似像PDA或者是FMF這些"},{"start":737.168,"end":737.648,"text":"我坦白講"},{"start":758.3,"end":772.394,"text":"PTA是美國總統的特殊撥款權FMF是美國的軍營項目這是三年當他一撥就是300億台幣或者100億台幣然後發現我們台灣的預算連省都不給省"},{"start":773.871,"end":774.231,"text":"國防部長陳大沙倫醫院"},{"start":792.146,"end":815.179,"text":"的計畫但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會一直沒有審下來另外AI園區謝謝院長那個你就任沒有滿月之前你就來這裡選擇AI園區要放在歸人沙倫這個位置那我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目現在大概有四大項一個是AI的物流中心一個是生活資源"},{"start":815.839,"end":816.22,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":834.855,"end":852.747,"text":"國發會什麼時候會通過?現在卡在那裡了。跟委員報告,這個沒有送上來,但是我們在10月7號主動的找各單位。你說沒有送上來,我得到的資訊,我得到你們回報資訊說在你那裡。沒有,我說明一下,我們10月7號找了各單位來開會,然後我們提出了改善建議之後,"},{"start":854.248,"end":878.645,"text":"陳大已經把他的改善建議先送到教育部了我希望要快,因為按照期程明年搞不好要動工是幾乎很難搞不好要搞到後年啊你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的大前年我都不好意思算那個年份了所以我特別拜託國發會主委你也問台南的拜託這個時間要縮短了沒問題,因為我們是主動整合各單位的建"},{"start":878.925,"end":901.636,"text":"回到AI園區就是因為AI園區現在我們AI不管是Database、算力或者是演算法它是一個很大的產業鏈那總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國從40幾名到第6名因為時間的關係我建議院長這邊早期我們在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候行政院有組成一個任務編組"},{"start":902.967,"end":904.068,"text":"我們類似這樣的案子"},{"start":927.347,"end":929.767,"text":"謝謝王定宇委員的質詢謝謝主委長及相關部會首長的備詢報言會現在我們休息10分鐘"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":455,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（10時5分）院長謝謝，麻煩請行政院長卓榮泰卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：卓院長，辛苦了！政務繁忙，最近在立法院的委員會都在進行各部會的業務報告，按照多年來的慣例，業務報告完就要進行各部會在委員會的預算審查，一條、一條審，該減、該刪、該凍就來審查，但是這幾次我們開完部會的業務報告之後，我在主席臺特別講很遺憾，我們接下來沒有預算可以審。總預算現在被擋在……你也不能說它退回了，它就被擋在陰陽魔界，卡在中間，在程序委員會進退不得大概六、七次了，也不知道未來會怎麼樣。所以本席今天要詢問的是，假設總預算是這樣的狀態，我們未來的政務該怎麼處理？因為國家還是要運作，不管是國防、經濟、交通建設。","目前我們遇到的狀況是，如果總預算持續這個狀態下去，明年新增項目的預算都沒辦法做了嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員定宇：我們以往有新增項目預算，在各部會其實都會做一些預置作業，比方國防部明年要配發兩萬多把新的步槍XT112給我們的單位使用，可是現在總預算前景不明，到底要不要先預劃，預劃完了之後預算還是不明，後續會不會造成影響？我今天主要是針對這些因應作為來請教院長跟相關的部會首長，比方軍公教人員明年要調薪3%，因應物價指數，也因應現在整體經濟，我們希望能夠經濟成長共享，讓公教人員也好，甚至可以帶動民間薪資的調漲。目前為止，因為明年過年還滿快的，1月底就過年了，有關公教人員調薪3%，如果總預算持續這樣凍結在那個地方不動，院長，你們打算怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是非常典型的目前遇到的困難，因為在軍公教人員調整待遇272億當中，中央政府本身122億，要補助給地方90億，但重要的是……"],["王委員定宇：地方90億……"],["卓院長榮泰：要補助給地方90億。"],["王委員定宇：但是地方議會現在在審查預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：地方自己要編的是50億，而這個沒有過，他們不曉得怎麼樣編，這個法源就沒有了。"],["王委員定宇：我今天就是要請問，主計長和我是老朋友了，我從議員時就認識你，我現在就要問這個問題，因為明年度的軍公教調薪是很多項目裡面的一項，我只是用這個當例子，270億當中地方政府要編50億，我為什麼要編50億呢？因為中央補助我90億，這又另外牽涉到財劃法，你把錢都弄掉了，將來這90億是不是都地方自己買單就好了？所以財劃法其實要好好討論，不要這樣急就章，昨天那一幕真的是難看，而且對國家來講是重大的隱憂。我回到我命題本身，中央要給我的90億到底有沒有不知道，地方現在正在審明年度的地方總預算，也在開議會當中，我們明年度中央這120億到底有沒有也不知道，所以請教主計長或院長，以這個命題來講，軍公教調薪3%，你們現在開始作業了嗎？有沒有辦法開始作業？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個是人總那邊在負責，它會做一個頒布……"],["王委員定宇：錢沒有著落怎麼準備？"],["陳主計長淑姿：所以這個部分必須要等通過以後才可以發放，作業程序是由人總這邊來說明。"],["王委員定宇：請教人總，你們有沒有預置作業先準備好，如果我們韓國瑜院長協調成功，預算開始去討論、去執行了，我相信這個預算大家都沒有爭議，到時候過年前該調薪的調薪，村里長1.5月、新增的部分該給就給，但因為現在不明，所以就卡在那裡，人事長，你們現在有沒有預置作業？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：跟委員報告，現在整個程序就要等立法院把預算列入整個討論以後，我們才會進到……"],["王委員定宇：所以你現在沒有作業？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們現在等於就是pending在那裡。"],["王委員定宇：pending在那裡，如果持續這個狀況下去，最壞的狀況就是總預算都來不及審查，或者都不給你審查，這3%要不要調？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：調薪的那3%就不可能分了。"],["王委員定宇：就沒有了嘛？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：嗯！那是增加的。"],["王委員定宇：那是一種狀況，最壞的狀況總預算就卡在那裡，不送進來審查，就算大家明明有共識，對這個沒問題、沒意見，你還是不能作業啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不能動。"],["王委員定宇：因為立法院沒有通過預算，你不能動啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是啊！"],["王委員定宇：另外一個次差的狀況，擋了6次、7次、8次、9次之後，開始審查了，來不來得及過年前給人家？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：現在主要也是要看什麼時候通過，通過後一定還需要作業時間，因為主計總處要有一個作業時間。"],["王委員定宇：這看起來「茫茫渺渺」，我們這邊還有癌症新藥部分，還有好多好多的錢。所以目前軍公教調薪3%，我可以說是pending，就是閒置在那邊無法作業，如果總預算無法獲得審查通過，明年這3%就沒有了，我這樣詮釋對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告，其實這個問題也可以早一點通過，我們就比較有機會在過年前發給所有……"],["王委員定宇：你說這句話就是如果按照程序，其實我們現在應該就在審查總預算了，應該在審查中了！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員定宇：如果比較早通過，按照正常作業，年終獎金也好，調整薪水也好，最好在過年前給人家一個消息，讓人家有一個打算；現在因為延宕，這個作業會慢下來是必然的，它已經必然了，但如果總預算持續這樣卡在那裡的話，它就會不見、沒有了，我這樣說沒錯吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是啊！"],["王委員定宇：所以我坦白說，對預算有意見，我們當立委的要審查、要凍結、要刪減，都是立委的權力，但是不審查放在那邊，這比刪除還慘啦！人事長可以先請回。","另外一個案子，像國防目前新增的項目，公開的部分69.5億，但機密的部分我就不講了。在新增的部分，我們看第2頁，這邊就要請教院長了，像潛艦國造後續艦有20億，我們都知道潛艦國造後續艦不是我方自己要造，還有很多國際上願意幫助我們的好朋友，冒著被中國經濟制裁，甚至於中國恐嚇他們不可以跟臺灣做生意，這一些技術協助也好，這一些重要的裝備商也好，臺灣後續艦如果沒有，他沒有必要冒這個險；臺灣如果內部有分歧、預算有問題，他也沒必要冒這個險。顧立雄部長已經上來了，我現在一樣請教你，目前預算pending在那個地方，都不審查，對於潛艦國造後續艦，你們有沒有什麼計畫？能不能開始……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，現在不只是潛艦的後續艦，主要還有一些快速布雷艇，還有一個是無人機產業園區的開發。"],["王委員定宇：對啊，中科院在嘉義民雄的無人機園區。"],["顧部長立雄：當然剛剛委員也提到新式的步槍，還有一些……"],["王委員定宇：還有飛機的防護機堡，我知道項目很多啦！我有列……"],["顧部長立雄：對，國軍網路的環島第二路由，還有我們一些機密的建案等等，如果不能夠順利審議的話，就會造成沒有辦法如期推動。"],["王委員定宇：顧部長，我現在問的問題就是，現在的真實狀況是總預算卡在那裡，沒有送進來，你們能不能有前置作業？比方跟廠商說我們會做，只是預算現在還沒有通過，還是你們會遇到困難，連這個都沒有辦法，變成要等預算明朗化，不管是對供應商的穩固，或者是國內自製部分的預備作業，你們現在到底有沒有辦法先做前置作業？"],["顧部長立雄：國防預算一定都要尊重大院的決議，通過以後我們才能夠進行推動。"],["王委員定宇：所以沒過根本連談都沒辦法談喔？"],["顧部長立雄：沒過當然沒有辦法，因為行政、立法的相互制衡，由我們提出預算，當然還是要經大院通過才可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，軍公教人員的調整待遇，這個還可以跟軍公教同仁訴諸於理，但是人民健康的需求實在一日不可等，這種國際的軍購合作更有國際的信用問題，那個程度是更嚴重的。"],["王委員定宇：院長，你剛才講的健康需求，像抗癌新藥的50億。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊。"],["王委員定宇：你有沒有想過那個慢一個月、兩個月，對某一個家庭的家人可能是有跟沒有的差別，那個pending、卡在那裡影響很大。","我就要問顧部長，我們潛艦後續艦其實還是需要很多國際朋友的幫忙，這個預算卡在那裡，會不會影響他們的意願？"],["顧部長立雄：現在就是說明年如果原型艦的水下測試通過，我們就可以開始支用這些相關的錢。"],["王委員定宇：其實20億的潛艦預算占比不大……"],["顧部長立雄：占比不大，但是……"],["王委員定宇：那是一個態度，我也贊成SAT水測、航測完整之後，我們再來處理後續艦的預算……"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["王委員定宇：這個我個人支持，但是我們國家要展現一個態度，有點像deposit money，就是有點像預訂金，這20億過，表示我們國家有做這個的決心，因為占整個的比例很低，但連這個都卡到的話……"],["顧部長立雄：因為後續艦的部分，比如我們還有很多輸出許可，還有很多次承包商他們……"],["王委員定宇：在作業上它就停下來了。"],["顧部長立雄：如果不過的話，它整個就會轉向，這樣的話……"],["王委員定宇：我跟你講，輸出許可要時間，輸出許可也考量到各國的國內政治局勢，當局勢變化，像今年有四十幾個國家改選，當他們國家的局勢變化，原來有的會不會變沒有了，這是我們現在擔憂的。我另外講一個是我們自己可控的，我們明年要配發2萬5,000把左右的新式步槍，也就是T112，新式步槍是提升我們步槍兵的戰力，現在預算卡在這裡，我們的兵工廠可以先製造嗎？還是要等預算？"],["顧部長立雄：生製中心應該還是可以來做啦，但問題是如果這個預算沒有通過，經費沒有辦法撥下去的話，生製中心可能會面臨要……"],["王委員定宇：跳票，不是，那是國防部對生製中心跳票，因為這牽涉到一個訂單嘛，2萬5,000把，它要預做，製造步槍要時間的，要先預購材料，如鋼材啦、槍管的材料都要預購的。"],["顧部長立雄：對，沒辦法有經費來支應這些東西。"],["王委員定宇：因為這牽涉到我們正規第一線的主力戰鬥部隊，還有後備部隊，因為配發T112，後備部隊的槍也可以跟著更新，接裝下一代的步槍，所以如果這個部分延宕下去，會不會影響到明年配發的作業？"],["顧部長立雄：如果沒有辦法如期在這個會期通過，當然會影響啊。我還要跟委員特別報告，因為現在我們有很多類似像PDA或者是FMF這些得到美國……"],["王委員定宇：美國軍援的項目。"],["顧部長立雄：美國也一再地表示關切我們的自我防衛能力跟決心，所以我們的國防預算如果沒有辦法在今年審議通過的話，國際間對我們自我防衛能力的決心是會有所質疑的。"],["王委員定宇：我坦白講，PDA是美國總統的特殊撥款權，FMF是美國的軍援項目，這是送你的，當他一撥，比方300億臺幣或100億臺幣，然後發現我們臺灣的預算連審都不給審，如果是當朋友的，你會怎麼看待這樣的事情？好，國防先到這邊，部長請回。","另外這個題目要請教院長，因為這是很重要的項目，有關成大沙崙這個園區，除了成大在那邊有一個沙崙醫院的計畫，但是整個計畫的細部現在還在國發會，一直沒有審下來。另外，AI園區的部分，謝謝院長，在你就任還沒有滿月之前，你就宣布AI園區要放在歸仁沙崙這個位置，我們也知道AMD、NVIDIA大概在那邊有些計畫投資項目，現在大概有四大項，一個是AI的物流中心，一個是生活資源，一個是成大醫院沙崙園區加上健康產業園區，還有一個就是生活資源園區。第一個，因為沙崙醫院已經講了很久，但我知道行政作業上還要經過國發會同意，同意完還有細部計畫等等，國發會什麼時候會通過？現在卡在那裡。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，這個沒有送上來，但是我們在10月7號主動找各單位來……"],["王委員定宇：你說沒有送上來，我得到你們回報的資訊是說在你那裡。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有，我說明一下，我們10月7號找了各單位來開會，然後我們提出了改善建議之後，成大已經把它的改善建議先送到教育部了，目前的進度是這樣。"],["王委員定宇：我希望要快，因為按照期程，明年要動工幾乎很難，搞不好要到後年，你知道這個計畫什麼時候開始的？大前年，我都不好意思算那個年份。所以我特別拜託國發會主委，你也是我們臺南的，拜託一下這個時間要縮短。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒問題，因為我們是主動整合各單位的意見。"],["王委員定宇：回到AI園區，因為AI園區牽涉到我們的AI，不管是database、算力或是演算法，它是一個很大的產業鏈，總統也希望我們的應用可以超越韓國，從四十幾名到第六名。","因為時間的關係，我建議院長這邊，早期我們那邊在發展沙崙AI、IoT跟綠能園區的時候，行政院有組成一個任務編組──類似Tiger Team，這個任務編組在行政院有一個召集人，而在我們地方上，比方說地方的立委、成大，大家都參加這個team，就土地的運用以及發展的項目，結合各種力量、整合腳步來同步進行，才不會一個單位會一個單位、再會一個單位，兩、三年就過了，我不知道院長可不可以這樣處理？"],["卓院長榮泰：針對類似這樣的案子，國發會、國科會甚至包括經濟部，我們都有定期討論類似的案子，我們會把它成為常軌性的……"],["王委員定宇：對，常態性的，比如這邊AI發展的任務編組或者小組，這樣才能夠統籌、減少行政程序上的浪費，這要拜託院長，謝謝！"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們會密集、常態性的來討論，謝謝。"],["王委員定宇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇委員的質詢、謝謝院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在我們休息10分鐘，休息之後繼續進行質詢，現在休息。","休息（10時21分）","繼續開會（10時31分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156498","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156498","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41ce073c593f5fdfbfe3fd33acf0e4cf8bc33455cf26ecaca99aab6c45daf424f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"09:49:32 - 10:05:02","影片長度":"00:15:30","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T09:49:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T10:05:02+08:00","duration":930,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.88284375,"end":4.232843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.73909375,"end":6.0553437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.404093750000001,"end":15.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.42096875,"end":15.454718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.454718750000001,"end":15.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.74159375,"end":15.910343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.910343750000003,"end":15.927218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.129718750000002,"end":21.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.71096875,"end":27.199718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.68909375,"end":30.000968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.878468750000003,"end":31.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.992218750000006,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.71784375,"end":36.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.48096875,"end":37.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.455343750000004,"end":41.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.290343750000005,"end":44.766593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.602218750000006,"end":44.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.12096875,"end":46.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.58471875,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.60534375,"end":51.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.579718750000005,"end":55.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.98846875,"end":57.237218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.642218750000005,"end":59.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.970968750000004,"end":64.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.42159375,"end":67.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.42534375000001,"end":74.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.33159375000001,"end":75.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.23846875000001,"end":77.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.63909375,"end":77.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.95971875000001,"end":79.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.96784375,"end":80.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.22909375,"end":83.42721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.61284375000001,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.11471875000001,"end":86.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.64596875000001,"end":93.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.35784375,"end":105.55034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.98909375000001,"end":107.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.09846875000001,"end":116.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.97471875000001,"end":119.72534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.04596875000001,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.93159375,"end":125.54721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.54721875000001,"end":129.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.23846875,"end":131.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.06096875,"end":133.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.79909375,"end":135.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.03096875,"end":142.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.32159375,"end":138.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.02971875,"end":143.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.26159375,"end":146.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.43409375000002,"end":151.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.22659375,"end":153.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.47534375,"end":153.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.72846875000002,"end":156.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.58034375,"end":163.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.60034375,"end":164.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.86159375,"end":168.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.66284375,"end":173.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.03346875,"end":175.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.58159375000002,"end":177.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.28159375,"end":196.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.48971875,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.74221875,"end":201.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.39596875,"end":205.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.19284375,"end":208.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.84221875,"end":212.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.67721875,"end":217.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.71846875000003,"end":220.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.12721875000003,"end":222.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.59096875,"end":225.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.32471875000002,"end":228.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.00784375,"end":232.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.65284375000002,"end":232.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.44596875000002,"end":233.46284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.46284375000002,"end":234.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.67784375000002,"end":240.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.41534375,"end":245.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.44909375,"end":241.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.81159375000001,"end":245.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.64221875,"end":252.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.43471875000003,"end":252.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.12221875000003,"end":258.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.91034375000004,"end":262.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.53409375,"end":267.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.61784375,"end":272.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.11909375,"end":274.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.17784375,"end":289.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.31471875,"end":294.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.59659375,"end":296.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.19971875000005,"end":303.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.14846875,"end":303.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.59534375000004,"end":304.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.03409375,"end":304.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.63721875000005,"end":308.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.61971875,"end":311.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.53471875,"end":314.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.42471875,"end":316.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.97721875,"end":318.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.48721875,"end":321.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.25909375000003,"end":322.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.27596875,"end":326.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.34346875,"end":322.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.33909375,"end":323.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.93346875000003,"end":337.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.05409375000005,"end":345.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.03596875,"end":348.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.12409375000004,"end":351.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.25909375000003,"end":349.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.75659375000004,"end":352.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.20784375,"end":357.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.76409375000003,"end":361.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.06721875,"end":364.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.64909375,"end":369.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.25596875,"end":372.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.51721875000004,"end":375.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.22159375,"end":382.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.01846875,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.84846875000005,"end":384.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.96659375,"end":388.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.98346875000004,"end":386.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.75909375000003,"end":393.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.69096875,"end":396.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.11659375000005,"end":399.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.54659375,"end":403.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.63471875000005,"end":404.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.57096875,"end":412.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.57034375,"end":410.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.16471875,"end":413.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.18159375000005,"end":413.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.97471875,"end":414.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.02534375000005,"end":414.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.04221875,"end":419.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.22784375000003,"end":414.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.50971875000005,"end":419.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.74159375000005,"end":426.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.10346875000005,"end":430.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.71034375000005,"end":437.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.29159375,"end":441.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.56971875000005,"end":440.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.32909375,"end":441.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.86909375000005,"end":445.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.10909375000006,"end":454.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.37909375000004,"end":446.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.76221875000005,"end":451.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.22596875000005,"end":454.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.79534375000003,"end":455.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.03159375,"end":455.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.41971875,"end":455.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.77409375,"end":459.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.81596875,"end":457.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.97596875000005,"end":463.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.04721875,"end":463.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.97096875000005,"end":477.98159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.18034375,"end":475.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.90159375,"end":477.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.82971875000004,"end":481.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.27221875000004,"end":482.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.87534375,"end":483.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.84971875,"end":486.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.27971875000003,"end":488.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.50721875000005,"end":491.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.47721875,"end":494.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.46409375,"end":499.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.80159375000005,"end":495.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.85159375,"end":501.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.43346875000003,"end":503.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.74534375,"end":505.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.19659375000003,"end":508.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.43659375000004,"end":512.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.84534375,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.4272187500001,"end":519.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.05096875,"end":521.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.1015937500001,"end":521.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.5190937500001,"end":522.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.43034375,"end":525.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.54846875,"end":531.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.9184687500001,"end":552.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.2178437499999,"end":533.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.04846875,"end":537.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.04159375,"end":557.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.54721875,"end":557.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.56409375,"end":560.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.13346875,"end":559.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.4497187500001,"end":561.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.78721875,"end":561.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.4284687500001,"end":561.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.63096875,"end":562.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.66034375,"end":564.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.5165937500001,"end":564.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.1072187500001,"end":572.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.7178437499999,"end":574.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.16034375,"end":577.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.40909375,"end":580.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.47596875,"end":582.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.28159375,"end":585.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.61909375,"end":587.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.4115937500001,"end":589.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.1328437500001,"end":591.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.8203437500001,"end":592.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.69346875,"end":594.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.68471875,"end":596.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.23721875,"end":599.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.61659375,"end":612.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.3403437500001,"end":618.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.2590937500001,"end":621.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.6384687500001,"end":625.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.75596875,"end":628.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.28721875,"end":631.7465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.3034687500001,"end":633.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.4509687500001,"end":635.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.37471875,"end":640.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.5847187500001,"end":641.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.6015937500001,"end":646.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.7703437499999,"end":642.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.62659375,"end":646.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.7822187500001,"end":648.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.8703437500001,"end":650.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.65909375,"end":657.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.0422187500001,"end":657.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.0928437500002,"end":657.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.53159375,"end":665.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.23596875,"end":659.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.85971875,"end":665.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.14221875,"end":665.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.31096875,"end":675.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.6315937500001,"end":668.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.49596875,"end":670.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.3390937500001,"end":676.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.4484687500001,"end":676.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.53284375,"end":676.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.68471875,"end":676.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.7690937500001,"end":681.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.81534375,"end":678.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.78534375,"end":681.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.9328437500001,"end":687.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.9665937500001,"end":683.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.60346875,"end":684.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.0078437500001,"end":700.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.17034375,"end":707.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.0847187500001,"end":712.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.9153437500001,"end":718.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.37096875,"end":713.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":713.84346875,"end":713.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.45034375,"end":719.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.5178437500001,"end":718.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.3953437499999,"end":728.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.96346875,"end":729.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.58784375,"end":729.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.95909375,"end":730.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.49471875,"end":732.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.46909375,"end":739.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.0503437500001,"end":741.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":742.5478437500001,"end":753.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.32659375,"end":760.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.38909375,"end":765.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.86534375,"end":779.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.03284375,"end":771.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":778.18784375,"end":783.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":780.63471875,"end":781.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.71034375,"end":783.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.6215937500001,"end":783.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.1784687500001,"end":785.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.0390937500001,"end":785.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.41034375,"end":787.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.5534687500001,"end":789.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.32096875,"end":796.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.1597187500001,"end":796.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.8347187500001,"end":800.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.42034375,"end":802.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":803.4834687500002,"end":804.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":804.39471875,"end":809.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.0815937500001,"end":811.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":811.71846875,"end":817.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.5534687500001,"end":815.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.8528437500001,"end":818.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.45596875,"end":817.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":819.43034375,"end":819.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.95346875,"end":823.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.0078437500001,"end":823.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.48034375,"end":828.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.81284375,"end":830.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.51721875,"end":844.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.0065937500001,"end":831.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.27596875,"end":835.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.9453437500001,"end":847.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.6115937500001,"end":848.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.71284375,"end":848.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.48471875,"end":856.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.61971875,"end":850.3115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":856.4878437500001,"end":870.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":871.13534375,"end":871.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.15221875,"end":871.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":871.18596875,"end":871.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.4053437500002,"end":872.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":872.1140937500002,"end":872.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.13096875,"end":872.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.4853437500001,"end":877.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.40909375,"end":874.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.07096875,"end":882.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.14659375,"end":880.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.82971875,"end":887.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":883.0322187500001,"end":883.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.58846875,"end":887.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.89221875,"end":894.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.0009687500001,"end":894.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.96284375,"end":896.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.36784375,"end":896.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.86971875,"end":897.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":897.6797187500001,"end":897.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.78096875,"end":898.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":898.03409375,"end":898.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.05096875,"end":898.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":898.0847187500001,"end":898.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.42221875,"end":902.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.6497187500001,"end":903.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":903.8728437500001,"end":905.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":906.5559687500001,"end":909.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.40784375,"end":912.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.9853437500001,"end":918.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.29659375,"end":920.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":922.35096875,"end":925.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":926.7722187500001,"end":929.42159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.898,"end":28.372,"text":"主席有請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢卓委員好院長好我剛聽到鍾嘉斌委員是針對昨天才劃法來向你告狀不過我當時有另外一個角度來溫馨提醒一下我們院長你今天有沒有打電話給吳思堯委員"},{"start":30.896,"end":35.358,"text":"是因為吳秉瑞把主席台的麥克風整個拆起來往旁邊一砸就砸中了吳世耀的手"},{"start":60.009,"end":85.87,"text":"他那個痛苦的表情現在在畫面上都看得讓人家很心疼所以第一個我還是提醒院長意識上怎麼樣是一回事但是吳士堯委員受傷這件事情我覺得你要打電話慰問他一下但你還要慰問一樣東西你知道慰問什麼東西嗎慰問一下麥克風麥克風很可憐吳士堯是被打傷麥克風是被砸爛"},{"start":87.654,"end":90.596,"text":"台灣今年董事長有前雲林縣的農業處長呂政章接任,這個人事是您決定的嗎?"},{"start":117.214,"end":128.642,"text":"當然我們在經過很﹐一段時間﹐多方的徵詢考量﹐我們在最後是決定了這個人選﹐是你決定的嗎﹐是最後決定嗎﹐對﹐不是艾慶德總統決定的嗎﹐這個因為這是﹐"},{"start":132.133,"end":134.016,"text":"請問台灣今年負責的業務是什麼?"},{"start":147.452,"end":164.205,"text":"他對一些不良債務的處理以及一些資產的管理、使用、收益等等。沒錯嘛,很重要的單位嘛,對不對?那我想請問一下,被您決定安排接任台灣今年董事長的呂政章,有任何金融經驗嗎?"},{"start":165.899,"end":167.64,"text":"比起八大工庫、工股行戶跟工股金庫,台灣今年看似單位的規模沒那麼大。"},{"start":183.931,"end":207.95,"text":"可是你知道,出任董事長都很有來頭的,你知道吧?我唸給你聽,除了施俊吉擔任副院長,有擔任財政部次長的王榮周,財政部前部長的林鄭國,李政章沒有在金融界、銀行界上過一天班。我想請教,專業用人是我們賴清德總統的一個用人的哲學,是不是?"},{"start":209.028,"end":232.548,"text":"我們一直在這個方面是比較慎重的。結果您決定用了一個連一天金融業的經驗都沒有的呂政章。你對不起賴清德專業用人的這個理念了。第二個,院長,我跟你講第二個更嚴重。呂政章不但沒有金融背景,家族還涉及弊案、招通器,這個你總知道吧?"},{"start":234.741,"end":261.94,"text":"任用之前確實了解這個狀況也徵詢過相關的問題認為說家族的事業家族成員的事業也不會在他未來的工作上給予任何的方便因為這個是司法調查的當然啦你要跟我講現代的法制沒有家族連坐我也認同可是我要說啊天下專業人才千千萬"},{"start":263.561,"end":288.987,"text":"那你用這個人齁基本上沒有金融專業背景你也說不是個所以啦你只說這個台灣經理好像意思是還可以啦那第二個更重要的是這麼多沒有家族牽扯的專業人才可以用那你都事前知道家族有人設幣、招通器你可不可以顧慮一下我們賴慶祖賴慶祖總有另外一個用人的招牌叫清廉你總知道吧"},{"start":290.536,"end":318.156,"text":"結果你們行政院這樣子用人你對得起賴清德總統嗎我們當然有跟透過我們本人的瞭解說家族成員的關係我還以為你說你當然有透過透過跟賴清德總統溝通還是好今天說實在話施俊錡就講了啦現任施俊錡的董事長他很不高興吧他說什麼他說其實不是你決定的"},{"start":326.991,"end":348.028,"text":"他要嘛就是誤會那就是你今天沒有追尋賴清德總統專業用人青年用才的這樣的一個執政的用人理念要嘛就是今天所有報紙所有媒體所有外界的檢視呂政章最大最輝煌的經驗就是跟賴清德總統關係很好啊"},{"start":349.161,"end":368.795,"text":"沒有別的耶 這個也是蠻慘的捏說實在我從過去在行政院或是我們在整個黨務或是選舉過程當中我並沒有發現或是我並沒有遇到或感覺的呂政章董事長跟總統有什麼特別的關係我自己是沒有感覺"},{"start":369.358,"end":388.536,"text":"對阿你又不是總統肚子裡的蛔蟲所以我不會用這個方式或這個角度來衡量一下好啦沒關係啦我告訴你我真的只是提醒啦謝謝這跟我們外界的質疑也很在意的外界的質疑我們請他請財政部多多的監督不能有任何的不法跟特權好啦好啦就後面監督啦"},{"start":389.793,"end":418.562,"text":"更嚴重的事情施俊吉董事長去職他說合理懷疑他的去職是擋人財路你跟施總製長溝通過嗎?不必懷疑啦 這個沒有這樣的考慮不必懷疑喔 擔心國家資產被賤賣絕對不可能 我們對國家資產的處分有非常嚴謹的程序希望之後不要羅致施俊吉的罪名沒有 我們對於施前董事長在任內的勞苦功高我們是永遠記住的"},{"start":421.22,"end":430.415,"text":"話當然一定要講得漂亮是做人基本的禮貌對不對可是我告訴你施俊傑是民進黨的前副葛魁"},{"start":431.857,"end":433.478,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．羅智強二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":455.988,"end":483.624,"text":"還是他今天照你的邏輯他懷疑不可以還是他今天自己心虛你的意思是這樣嗎沒有心虛的問題他不必要做這種懷疑對我告訴你今天施俊吉他到底有沒有會被羅智罪名會被清算追殺當事人心中最清楚不是你今天你不是當事人你不知道他今天眼前看到所有的景象對任何人如果有不法當然會有調查但是我們現在是沒有當然這第一個喔我第二個跟你講"},{"start":484.935,"end":511.612,"text":"施俊吉這個不平之名啊也不是完全沒有道理今天如果你找一個人過來你比我施俊吉的專業強你比我施俊吉的專業夠比我施俊吉的經驗足我施俊吉被你換了我也沒話說今天是嗎你今天把李政章取代施俊吉將心比心你是施俊吉你能服嗎"},{"start":512.841,"end":514.002,"text":"新的創意,年輕的創意來,也是一個考量之一。"},{"start":532.382,"end":552.057,"text":"所以你當委員啊?不是,我要講的一件事情就是,你不能憑感覺嘛!憑著感覺走!你今天實際上社會公益,我要講,你今天弄到一個前行政團隊,行政院副院長很高位了捏,很尊榮了捏。"},{"start":553.098,"end":580.19,"text":"他都擔心被羅智罪名,你叫平常深斗小民能不擔心嗎?我對他沒有任何的懷疑,我個人對他沒有任何懷疑。你沒有任何懷疑,他懷疑啊!我說我他懷疑是不合理,不必要的。我回頭要講,我今天真的不客氣說啦,我認為施俊傑講重一點,只是當然是你齁,你是互阻心切啦。他說這人是不是你決定的,所以他不怪你。對不起我沒聽清楚。施俊傑說這人是不是你決定的,他不會怪你啦。"},{"start":581.716,"end":584,"text":"用人為親,不顧專業,還沒上任,就是"},{"start":596.148,"end":624.77,"text":"爭議造底你這個人是不是受你這16個字你像今天施俊吉最關切的是什麼他說台灣今年史上最大的資產飆售案蘇志芬召集地方抗爭導致產業退堂使得招標流標然後到最後在投標的時候開價就只剩下13億與底價相差甚遠所以呢各方勢力基於這塊土地已久"},{"start":626.291,"end":645.119,"text":"希望無人投標後降價就是可能遭受最大的資產賤賣我告訴你施俊吉這段話坑然有力喔但是委員我們都聽到蘇貞芬委員也有對這件事情的回應跟說法我們應該同時重視但是我跟你講院長起碼拜託法務部嘛了解一下吧"},{"start":651.804,"end":652.585,"text":"財政部是行政督導．"},{"start":683.365,"end":707.686,"text":"謝謝你,非常好。來,接下來我要請教您。主委院長,我上次有質詢您,說2008年的時候,擔任立委的賴清德曾經提案要退回行政院總預算。那當時民進黨少數黨,所以提案沒有通過。那我想請教您,2008年賴清德當時退回總預算是胡錦濤主席下達命令來杯葛總預算的嗎?"},{"start":713.088,"end":731.986,"text":"國民黨也沒有任何人會說是胡錦濤下達命令來所謂的杯葛總預算。那我想請教院長,今天國民黨跟民眾黨退回行政院總預算,你會不會認為那是習近平下達命令來杯葛總預算?非常好,我肯定院長。"},{"start":733.49,"end":753.36,"text":"我告訴你,你這段話齁,最該聽的,當然吳思耀受傷齁,我是覺得要慰問他啦。但你這段話最該聽的也是吳思耀。吳思耀最近真的像瘋狂小紅帽你知道嗎?那小紅帽上升到那種程度齁,非常驚人。重點是小紅帽一般是配大灰狼啦,那沒有他就配大黑熊啦。"},{"start":754.546,"end":783.284,"text":"我們的黑熊學院的那個沈伯陽跟我們的小紅帽吳思瑤齁什麼事都要扣紅帽你剛剛還要慰問他你現在又在沒有沒有我跟你講兩回事就像說財政部要監管台灣金聯法務部一樣要去做所謂的犯罪偵查吳思瑤該被慰問是因為在立法院被吳秉瑞打傷這要慰問啊人之常情啊我也感到我也感到 朝野協商很辛苦的大家在協商齁要心平氣和但是我要跟你講"},{"start":784.104,"end":809.787,"text":"來"},{"start":810.134,"end":818.34,"text":"你決定釋憲了嗎?目前我認為我們應該有好的方式,可以透過這種協商溝通。其實我跟你講,院長我還真不反對你去釋憲。"},{"start":819.468,"end":820.849,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．羅智強"},{"start":849.537,"end":876.592,"text":"立法院的法律有沒有違憲當然你有你的見解嘛 對不對你認為按照預算案的話不能增加預算嘛 對不對可是我認為是按照法律案啊那你說預算法裡面法律案也要徵詢行政院啊但是我認為武力華質詢行政院院長陳建仁的時候陳建仁就直接講說該修法就修法啊這算不算徵詢但修法的內容跟彌補資金之來源武力華質詢陳建仁算不算徵詢啊"},{"start":878.154,"end":897.703,"text":"如果算,但是修法的內容要徵詢啊。還有啊,內容徵詢。你知道每次我們開那麼多會,行政院的官員都有列席,知道吧?還有再一個,你剛剛有一個東西,我跟您稍微溝通一下。徵詢不等於合議啦。但是一定要有達到徵詢的結果。徵詢就是詢問意見。一個徵詢,一個是指出彌補資金之來源。我想做個結論,為什麼認為你視線好?"},{"start":906.601,"end":909.443,"text":"謝謝羅智強委員質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第19號王定宇"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":310,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（9時49分）主席，有請院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：院長好！我剛剛聽到鍾佳濱委員針對昨天財劃法向你告狀，不過我倒是由另外一個角度來溫馨提醒院長，你今天有沒有打電話給吳思瑤委員？"],["卓院長榮泰：打電話？"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：今天沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有？那你待會趕快打電話給他，慰問他一下，他受傷了，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：昨天看到他的時候還沒有受傷。"],["羅委員智強：對，他昨天受傷了，所以你要打電話慰問他。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員提醒。"],["羅委員智強：他為什麼受傷，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果是議事的進行，那我覺得非常不捨。"],["羅委員智強：是因為吳秉叡把主席臺的麥克風整個拆起來往旁邊一砸，就砸中了吳思瑤的手，他那個痛苦的表情，現在在畫面上都看得讓人家很心疼，所以第一個，我還是提醒院長，議事上怎麼樣那是一回事，但是吳思瑤委員受傷這件事情，我覺得你要打電話慰問他一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，好的，謝謝委員提醒。"],["羅委員智強：但你還要慰問一樣東西，你知道慰問什麼東西嗎？慰問一下麥克風，麥克風很可憐，吳思瑤是被打傷，麥克風是被砸爛啦！整個拔起來砸到地上稀巴爛，那個碎片彈起來打到議事人員，議事人員還要閃欸！能不能請我們吳秉叡委員情緒控管稍微管理一下？所以你最好打電話給吳思瑤，同時也慰問一下立法院的麥克風。","請教你第二個問題，台灣金聯董事長由前雲林縣農業處長呂政璋接任，這個人事是你決定的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然我們經過一段時間多方徵詢、考量，最後決定了這個人選。"],["羅委員智強：所以是你決定的、做最後決定的，不是賴清德總統決定的？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為這是財政部裡面的單位，是由我們院裡決定。"],["羅委員智強：喔！所以不是賴清德總統決定的，是你決定的，是財政部跟你決定的，對不對？好，那我想請教一下，請問台灣金聯負責的業務是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：它是針對一些不良債務的處理，以及一些資產的管理、使用、收益等等。"],["羅委員智強：沒錯嘛！很重要的單位，對不對？請問，被你決定安排接任台灣金聯董事長的呂政璋，有任何金融經驗嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為它是處理一些不良債務，並不是傳統的、一般的、平常的金融業務。"],["羅委員智強：喔！真的喔！真的是這樣嗎？來，我念給你聽，比起八大公股行庫跟公股金控，台灣金聯看似單位規模沒那麼大，可是你知道出任董事長的都很有來頭，你知道吧？我念給你聽，除了施俊吉擔任過副院長，有擔任財政部次長的王榮周、財政部前部長的林振國，而呂政璋卻沒有在金融界、銀行界上過一天班！我想請教，專業用人是我們賴清德總統的用人哲學，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一直在這個方面是比較慎重……"],["羅委員智強：結果你決定用了一個連一天金融業經驗都沒有的呂政璋，你對不起賴清德專業用人的這個理念……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會……"],["羅委員智強：第二個，院長，第二個更嚴重，呂政璋不但沒有金融背景，家族還涉及弊案遭通緝，這個你總知道吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在任用之前確實了解這個狀況，也徵詢過相關的問題，認為家族的事業……"],["羅委員智強：家族歸家族，不是連坐法？"],["卓院長榮泰：家族成員的事業，不會在他未來的工作上給予任何方便，因為這是司法調查……"],["羅委員智強：院長，當然啦！你要跟我講現代法治是沒有家族連坐，這我也認同，可是我要說的是，天下專業人才千千萬，你用這個人，基本上沒有金融專業背景，你也說不出個所以然，只說台灣金聯的業務，意思好像是還可以。第二個，更重要的是，這麼多沒有家族牽扯的專業人才可以用，你事前都已經知道家族有人涉弊遭通緝，你可不可以顧慮一下我們賴清德？賴清德總統另外一個用人的招牌叫做清廉，這你總知道吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["羅委員智強：結果你們行政院這樣用人，對得起賴清德總統嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然有透過他本人了解家族成員的關係、司法關係……有沒有涉案……"],["羅委員智強：我還以為你要說，當然有透過跟賴清德總統溝通！今天說實在話，施俊吉就講了，現任施俊吉董事長他很不高興，他說什麼？他說其實不是你決定的，施俊吉說對了沒有？是賴清德總統決定的。"],["卓院長榮泰：他可能有所誤會。"],["羅委員智強：好啦，謝謝他的誤會啦！他要嘛就是誤會，那就是你今天沒有遵循賴清德總統專業用人、清廉用才的執政用人理念；要嘛就是今天所有報紙、所有媒體、所有外界在檢視呂政璋最大、最輝煌的經驗，就是跟賴清德總統關係很好，沒有別的欸！其實這個也是蠻慘的。"],["卓院長榮泰：說真的，我從過去在行政院或是我們在整個黨務或是選舉過程當中，我並沒有發現，也沒有遇到或感覺呂政璋董事長跟總統有什麼特別的關係，我自己是沒有感覺啦！"],["羅委員智強：你又不是總統肚子裡的蛔蟲，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我不會用這個方式或這個角度來衡量一個人。"],["羅委員智強：好啦，沒關係啦！我告訴你，我真的只是提醒啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["羅委員智強：這跟我們賴清德總統用人的邏輯是有出入的，我跟你講還有一個更嚴重的事情喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們對於外界的質疑也很在意的，對於外界的質疑，我們會請財政部多多的監督，不能有任何的不法跟特權。"],["羅委員智強：好啦，就後面監督啦！更嚴重的事情，施俊吉董事長去職，他說合理懷疑他的去職是擋人財路，你跟施董事長溝通過嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不必懷疑啦，這個沒有這樣的考量……"],["羅委員智強：不必懷疑嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：也不是被……"],["羅委員智強：他擔心國家資產被賤賣。"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不可能，我們對國家資產的處分有非常嚴謹的程序。"],["羅委員智強：希望之後不要羅織施俊吉的罪名。"],["卓院長榮泰：對於施前董事長在任內的勞苦功高，我們是永遠記住的。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！話當然一定要講得漂亮，這是做人基本的禮貌，對不對？可是我告訴你，施俊吉是民進黨的前副閣揆，如果連他都有會被執政者清算追殺、羅織罪名的擔憂的時候，院長你沒有發現問題嚴重到什麼程度嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，沒有委員說的那個未來的發展，現在都沒有這種……"],["羅委員智強：那是你覺得，我要講的是施俊吉的感受啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我說他的懷疑是不合理。"],["羅委員智強：他的雷達錯了？"],["卓院長榮泰：他的懷疑是不合理的，也不必……"],["羅委員智強：他的懷疑是不合理的，對不對？照你的邏輯，他的懷疑不合理，還是他今天自己心虛，你的意思是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有心虛的問題，他不必做這種懷疑。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，今天施俊吉他到底有沒有被羅織罪名、會不會被清算追殺，當事人心中最清楚，今天你不是當事人，你不知道他眼前看到的所有景象。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，任何人如果有不法，當然會有調查，但是我們現在是沒有……"],["羅委員智強：這是第一個，第二個我要跟你講施俊吉這個不平之鳴也不是完全沒有道理，今天如果你找一個人過來，比我施俊吉的專業強、比我施俊吉的專業夠、比我施俊吉的經驗足，我施俊吉被你換了，我也沒話說，但今天是嗎？你今天用呂政璋取代施俊吉，將心比心，你是施俊吉，你能服嗎？心能服嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：政務人員跟國營事業單位的負責人，我們都是在全盤人事考量底下，做一種新的考量……"],["羅委員智強：全盤人事考量？我質詢到現在為止，我告訴你……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以用新的創意、年輕的創意也是一個考量之一。"],["羅委員智強：創意啊，好棒喔！我也好有創意喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為你當委員啊！"],["羅委員智強：院長，我毛遂自薦一下可以嗎？其實我要講的一件事情是你不能憑感覺嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是感覺，這個我們……"],["羅委員智強：憑著感覺走！你知道社會公義……我要講你今天弄到一個前行政院副院長，其實他已經很高位、很尊榮了，連他都擔心被羅織罪名，你叫平常的升斗小民能不擔心嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我對他沒有任何的懷疑，我個人對他沒有任何懷疑。"],["羅委員智強：你沒有任何懷疑，他懷疑啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我說他的懷疑是不合理、不必要的。"],["羅委員智強：今天真的要不客氣的說啦，我認為施俊吉講中了一點，當然你是護主心切，他說這個人事不是你能決定的，所以他不怪你。"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，我沒聽清楚。"],["羅委員智強：施俊吉說這個人事不是你決定的，他不會怪你啦！但是如果今天……"],["卓院長榮泰：那我必須找機會跟施前董事長說明。"],["羅委員智強：好啦，你好好找他說明啦！用人唯親、不顧專業、還沒上任就已爭議罩頂，你這個人事我就送你這16個字，現在施俊吉最關切的是什麼？他說臺灣金聯史上最大的資產標售案，蘇治芬召集地方抗爭，導致產業退堂，使得招標流標，到最後投標的時候開價就只剩下13億，與底價相差甚遠，所以各方勢力覬覦這塊土地已久，希望無人投標後降價，就是可能遭受最大的資產賤賣。我告訴你，施俊吉這段話鏗然有力喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：但是委員，我們都聽到蘇治芬委員也有對這件事情的回應跟說法……"],["羅委員智強：是啊，當然啊，我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們應該同時重視、了解。"],["羅委員智強：但是我跟你講，院長，起碼拜託法務部了解一下吧，照這樣情況之下，可能以施俊吉的說法，總有涉及弊案的可能性吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：有任何的不法，法務部、檢調機關當然要執行……"],["羅委員智強：好，謝謝你。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是財政部未來在任何土地的處分上面，一定加強監督。"],["羅委員智強：財政部是行政督導，法務部是犯罪偵查，兩個不衝突，沒錯吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：一定加強監督。"],["羅委員智強：兩個不衝突嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有員警的人事管理跟國家資產、財產處理的程序……"],["羅委員智強：院長，我剛剛到底在問什麼？我剛剛跟你講沒衝突啊。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒衝突啊。"],["羅委員智強：你要說財政部加強監管，但是法務部是犯罪偵查啊。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個要雙管並進。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝你，非常好。接下來我要請教您，卓院長，我上次有質詢您，2008年的時候擔任立委的賴清德曾經提案要退回行政院總預算，當時民進黨是少數黨，所以提案沒有通過。我想請教您，2008年賴清德當時提退回總預算，是胡錦濤主席下達命令來杯葛總預算的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不是。"],["羅委員智強：絕對不是，我也跟你保證絕對不是，國民黨也沒有任何人會說是胡錦濤下達命令來杯葛總預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：我也沒有這樣說啊。"],["羅委員智強：我想請教您，我想請教院長，今天國民黨跟民眾黨退回行政院總預算，你會不會認為那是習近平下達命令來杯葛總預算？"],["卓院長榮泰：我從來沒有這樣說。"],["羅委員智強：非常好！我肯定院長。我告訴你，你這段話最該聽的，當然，吳思瑤受傷，我是覺得要慰問他，但你這段話最該聽的也是吳思瑤，吳思瑤最近真的像瘋狂小紅帽，你知道嗎？小紅帽上升到那種程度，非常驚人，重點是小紅帽一般是配大灰狼，他沒有，他是配大黑熊。我們的黑熊學院的沈伯洋跟我們的小紅帽吳思瑤什麼事都要扣紅帽……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你剛剛還有慰問他，你現在又在這裡批評他……"],["羅委員智強：沒有、沒有，我跟你講，兩回事……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起慰問他啦。"],["羅委員智強：就像財政部要監管台灣金聯，法務部一樣要去做所謂的犯罪偵查。"],["卓院長榮泰：朝野……"],["羅委員智強：吳思瑤該被慰問，是因為在立法院被吳秉叡打傷，這要慰問，人之常情，我也感到……"],["卓院長榮泰：朝野協商很辛苦的。"],["羅委員智強：當然、當然。"],["卓院長榮泰：大家在協商要心平氣和。"],["羅委員智強：但是我要跟你講，不要扣紅帽啦。你沒有，不是說你啦，真的！大家就事論事。接下來我也知道，因為說真的，今天跟你談總預算的退回，你的立場我都知道啦。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝。"],["羅委員智強：但是你有說一句話，你說你要思考釋憲，對不對？有吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，那個是憲法賦予憲政機關的法定權責之一。"],["羅委員智強：你決定釋憲了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我認為我們應該有好的方式，可以透過這種協商溝通……"],["羅委員智強：其實我跟你講，院長，我還真不反對你去釋憲。"],["卓院長榮泰：真的嗎？"],["羅委員智強：真的啊，因為第一個，大法官那麼聽話，釋憲多好，方便嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：上次我們釋憲，你也罵很多啊。"],["羅委員智強：什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：對於職權行使法釋憲，你也很多意見啊。"],["羅委員智強：我很多意見……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在又同意我……"],["羅委員智強：是因為大法官今天的表現太稱你們的職，我當然有意見啊，大法官今天完全照著民進黨的感覺走，超強的！你趕快去釋憲，它一定會護你們的，真的，我建議你。我如果是你，就釋憲，但因為我不是你，我就瞧不起大法官，就是這樣子。","第二個，我要講，立法院的法律有沒有違憲，當然你有你的見解，對不對？你認為按照預算法的話，不能增加預算，對不對？可是我認為是按照法律案啊，你說預算法裡面，法律案也要徵詢行政院，但是我認為伍麗華質詢行政院院長陳建仁的時候，陳建仁就直接講說該修法就修法啊，這算不算徵詢？"],["卓院長榮泰：但修法的內容跟彌補資金之來源……"],["羅委員智強：伍麗華質詢陳建仁算不算徵詢啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果算……"],["羅委員智強：如果算？就是算。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是修法的內容要徵詢啊，還有……"],["羅委員智強：修法內容徵詢，你知道每次我們開那麼多會，行政院官員都有列席，知道吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["羅委員智強：還有，再一個，你剛剛有一個東西，我跟您稍微溝通一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["羅委員智強：徵詢不等於合意啦，沒錯吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是一定要有達到徵詢的結果。"],["羅委員智強：徵詢就是詢問意見……"],["卓院長榮泰：兩個，一個徵詢，一個是指出彌補資金之來源。"],["羅委員智強：好，因為時間到了，我要做個結論。我為什麼認為你釋憲好？釋憲代表什麼？在釋憲之前，你就先遵守法律，因為一無復議，法律也公布了，你先遵守法律，編足預算，釋憲將來反正你們一定贏嘛，釋憲贏了以後，你不執行，立法院也拿你沒辦法！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的建議。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第19號王定宇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156497","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156497","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41268a1ffb9b5ba05ee3fd33acf0e4cf8b21acfac236e8b07d6459bee0242884af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"09:33:33 - 09:49:27","影片長度":"00:15:54","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T09:33:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T09:49:27+08:00","duration":954,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7.709093750000001,"end":15.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15.809093750000002,"end":18.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":19.48784375,"end":24.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.62284375,"end":19.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.63971875,"end":20.078468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.078468750000003,"end":20.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.17534375,"end":21.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.65159375,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26.035343750000003,"end":26.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.06909375,"end":26.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26.11971875,"end":26.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.81159375,"end":26.828468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":32.07659375,"end":32.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":32.27909375,"end":32.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":32.39721875,"end":32.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":34.00034375,"end":34.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":35.13096875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":36.88596875,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":38.16846875,"end":40.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":41.32409375,"end":42.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":43.33221875,"end":47.837843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":48.884093750000005,"end":49.086593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":49.086593750000006,"end":50.031593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":50.031593750000006,"end":52.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":53.406593750000006,"end":54.047843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":54.31784375,"end":55.009718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":55.76909375,"end":60.477218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":60.797843750000006,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":63.244718750000004,"end":66.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":67.15971875000001,"end":68.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":68.91471875,"end":71.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":72.57659375,"end":75.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":75.69846875,"end":78.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":78.17909375,"end":79.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":79.83284375000001,"end":80.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.14909375,"end":83.19096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":82.14471875000001,"end":82.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":83.32596875,"end":85.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":85.60409375,"end":87.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":88.16909375,"end":89.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":90.21096875,"end":90.61596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":90.78471875000001,"end":91.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":91.71284375,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":95.03721875000001,"end":98.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":98.91846875,"end":103.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":104.13284375,"end":107.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":107.49096875000001,"end":108.52034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":108.80721875,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.76846875000001,"end":124.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":124.07909375000001,"end":128.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.46659375000002,"end":137.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":133.29284375,"end":136.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":136.48221875000002,"end":145.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":145.71284375000002,"end":157.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":157.01909375,"end":157.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":157.67721875,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":157.96409375000002,"end":159.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":159.33096875,"end":163.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":163.60034375,"end":166.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":166.90784375,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":178.02846875,"end":178.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":179.09159375000002,"end":179.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":179.10846875000001,"end":182.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":183.05721875,"end":184.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":184.69409375,"end":186.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":186.97221875000002,"end":189.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":189.58784375000002,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":193.84034375000002,"end":196.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":196.43909375,"end":211.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":212.63909375,"end":214.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":214.73159375,"end":220.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":219.50721875000002,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":221.66721875000002,"end":221.95409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":222.88221875000002,"end":226.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":226.74659375000002,"end":228.77159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":229.09221875,"end":235.90971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":236.23034375,"end":238.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":238.64346875,"end":240.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":241.42784375000002,"end":241.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":242.17034375000003,"end":248.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":249.07221875000002,"end":249.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":249.08909375000002,"end":249.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":249.22409375,"end":249.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":249.61221875,"end":249.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":249.66284375,"end":249.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":249.93284375000002,"end":252.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":253.08846875,"end":254.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":254.64096875,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":256.58159375,"end":259.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":259.75409375000004,"end":262.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":263.12909375000004,"end":266.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":266.85846875000004,"end":269.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":269.40659375,"end":273.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":273.40596875,"end":273.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":274.46909375,"end":277.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":277.94534375,"end":279.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":279.39659375,"end":281.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":282.75471875,"end":283.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":284.07096875,"end":286.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":286.87221875,"end":288.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":288.47534375000004,"end":290.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":290.75346875,"end":291.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":292.86284375,"end":293.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":293.84159375,"end":296.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":295.19159375000004,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":297.01409375000003,"end":297.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":298.11096875000004,"end":298.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":298.70159375000003,"end":299.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":300.40596875,"end":302.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":304.94534375,"end":305.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":306.02534375000005,"end":306.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":306.05909375000005,"end":306.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":306.98721875,"end":310.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":309.33284375,"end":310.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":310.32846875,"end":314.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":315.05346875000004,"end":318.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":319.13721875000005,"end":323.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":323.71034375,"end":324.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":324.95909375,"end":326.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":326.30909375000005,"end":327.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":327.54096875000005,"end":329.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":331.42221875,"end":332.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":332.11409375,"end":333.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":333.16034375000004,"end":340.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":340.63596875,"end":341.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":342.03659375,"end":346.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":347.30159375,"end":352.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":353.62971875,"end":354.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":354.76034375,"end":356.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":356.86971875,"end":357.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":358.11846875000003,"end":360.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":362.28659375,"end":371.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":371.02784375000005,"end":373.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":373.60971875,"end":377.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":378.13221875000005,"end":381.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":382.08096875,"end":388.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":388.91534375000003,"end":390.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":390.34971875,"end":392.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":392.30721875,"end":393.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":393.75846875,"end":395.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":395.31096875000003,"end":396.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":396.76221875000005,"end":398.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":398.36534375,"end":399.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":400.89659375,"end":401.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":401.87534375,"end":405.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":403.63034375,"end":403.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":403.64721875000004,"end":404.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":406.12784375,"end":411.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":411.03846875000005,"end":412.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":412.82721875000004,"end":416.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":416.62409375000004,"end":417.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":417.72096875000005,"end":427.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":427.82909375,"end":428.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":429.38159375000004,"end":432.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":432.04784375,"end":434.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":434.69721875000005,"end":435.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":435.43971875000005,"end":436.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":437.80221875,"end":438.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":438.27471875000003,"end":438.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":438.30846875000003,"end":438.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":438.37596875,"end":441.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":439.33784375000005,"end":441.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":442.74659375000005,"end":443.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":443.82659375000003,"end":444.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":445.42971875,"end":447.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":447.64034375000006,"end":449.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":449.34471875,"end":449.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":450.27284375000005,"end":451.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":452.68596875000003,"end":454.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":454.42409375000005,"end":455.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":456.14534375000005,"end":459.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":459.30096875000004,"end":461.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":462.33846875,"end":467.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":469.00409375000004,"end":471.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":470.65784375000004,"end":471.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":472.05846875000003,"end":474.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":475.23096875000005,"end":476.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":476.44596875,"end":477.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":477.84659375,"end":479.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":480.00659375000004,"end":481.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":482.26784375000005,"end":483.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":484.59659375,"end":485.60909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":486.09846875000005,"end":487.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":488.46096875,"end":491.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":491.41409375,"end":495.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":495.86909375000005,"end":496.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":496.84784375000004,"end":497.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":497.97846875000005,"end":501.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":501.75846875,"end":502.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":502.78784375000004,"end":504.10409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":504.96471875000003,"end":506.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":507.04034375000003,"end":508.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":508.89659375,"end":510.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":510.61784375,"end":510.88784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":511.05659375000005,"end":511.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":512.27159375,"end":514.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":515.12346875,"end":515.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.7478437500001,"end":515.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":516.0347187500001,"end":517.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":518.1103437500001,"end":519.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":520.18596875,"end":523.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":522.7847187500001,"end":524.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":524.25284375,"end":526.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":526.5478437500001,"end":529.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":529.9734687499999,"end":531.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":531.99846875,"end":533.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":533.0447187500001,"end":533.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":533.1797187500001,"end":540.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":533.21346875,"end":533.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":533.23034375,"end":534.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":534.0234687500001,"end":534.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":540.03096875,"end":544.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":545.02596875,"end":549.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":549.29534375,"end":555.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":556.3997187500001,"end":558.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":558.96471875,"end":562.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":562.7278437500001,"end":564.3647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":564.73596875,"end":566.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":566.99721875,"end":567.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":568.4484687500001,"end":569.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":569.95034375,"end":570.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":571.2834687500001,"end":574.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":574.4053437499999,"end":574.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":575.14784375,"end":575.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":575.97471875,"end":578.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":579.0122187500001,"end":582.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":582.2522187500001,"end":587.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":587.9897187500001,"end":590.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":590.92596875,"end":592.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":592.9509687500001,"end":594.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":595.2122187500001,"end":595.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":595.8703437500001,"end":597.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":598.63784375,"end":598.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":598.9922187500001,"end":599.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":599.8022187500001,"end":601.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":601.55721875,"end":605.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":605.38784375,"end":606.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":606.78846875,"end":607.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":608.18909375,"end":608.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":609.04971875,"end":609.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":609.9778437500001,"end":610.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":610.73721875,"end":612.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":612.99846875,"end":613.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":614.4328437500001,"end":614.9053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":615.1584687500001,"end":616.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":616.5759687500001,"end":618.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":619.27596875,"end":620.6765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":620.71034375,"end":621.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":621.99284375,"end":622.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":622.68471875,"end":624.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":625.3003437500001,"end":631.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":630.56534375,"end":631.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":631.93221875,"end":631.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":631.96596875,"end":631.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":632.2022187499999,"end":633.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":633.0290937500001,"end":636.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":633.67034375,"end":634.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":636.72471875,"end":637.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":637.33221875,"end":639.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":639.2390937499999,"end":642.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":642.25971875,"end":644.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":645.76971875,"end":648.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":648.41909375,"end":649.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":649.83659375,"end":654.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":654.30846875,"end":657.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":657.7509687500001,"end":661.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":661.2947187500001,"end":663.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":665.0747187500001,"end":665.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":665.9522187500002,"end":672.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":670.9640937500001,"end":676.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":672.61784375,"end":672.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":672.7865937500001,"end":673.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":676.9040937500001,"end":677.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":678.5578437500001,"end":684.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":685.40909375,"end":687.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.4465937500001,"end":696.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":692.6147187500001,"end":698.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":699.2803437500002,"end":699.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":700.6809687500001,"end":701.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":702.0647187500001,"end":702.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":702.4865937500001,"end":703.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":704.14034375,"end":707.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.7309687500001,"end":705.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.0303437500002,"end":709.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.42221875,"end":710.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":710.9240937500001,"end":710.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":710.97471875,"end":711.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.99159375,"end":711.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.0422187500001,"end":711.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":712.0547187500001,"end":719.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":719.9522187500002,"end":721.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":721.52159375,"end":722.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":722.8715937500001,"end":724.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":724.0359687499999,"end":724.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":725.06534375,"end":725.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":725.08221875,"end":726.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":727.7990937500001,"end":731.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":732.38909375,"end":737.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":737.5359687499999,"end":739.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":739.0378437500001,"end":739.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":739.42596875,"end":739.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":739.4597187500001,"end":742.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":743.03721875,"end":743.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":744.2859687499999,"end":745.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":745.9228437500001,"end":746.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":746.85096875,"end":747.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":747.13784375,"end":751.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":751.81221875,"end":752.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":753.3647187500001,"end":754.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":754.9509687500001,"end":755.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":756.7734687500001,"end":758.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":758.96721875,"end":759.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":760.24971875,"end":760.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":760.7222187500001,"end":764.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.53159375,"end":768.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":766.9153437500001,"end":767.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":768.7040937500001,"end":770.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":770.37471875,"end":771.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":772.8215937500001,"end":773.9522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.9734687499999,"end":777.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.95159375,"end":778.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.2509687500001,"end":780.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.27596875,"end":785.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":785.8997187500001,"end":786.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.23284375,"end":787.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":787.3003437500001,"end":787.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.3172187499999,"end":787.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":787.60409375,"end":787.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.6884687500001,"end":787.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":787.8740937500002,"end":789.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.3928437500001,"end":789.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":789.4265937499999,"end":790.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":790.9284687500001,"end":793.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":793.8647187500001,"end":797.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":797.22284375,"end":798.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":799.04534375,"end":802.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":804.10784375,"end":805.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":805.62659375,"end":808.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":808.90034375,"end":809.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":810.14909375,"end":812.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":812.83221875,"end":817.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":818.26596875,"end":819.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":819.31221875,"end":820.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":820.7634687500001,"end":821.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":822.1640937500001,"end":822.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":823.0078437500001,"end":824.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":824.6615937500001,"end":825.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":826.14659375,"end":826.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":826.87221875,"end":829.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.65221875,"end":834.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.58409375,"end":839.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.69721875,"end":840.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.25409375,"end":843.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":844.03409375,"end":848.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":850.07534375,"end":851.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":852.58971875,"end":853.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":853.61909375,"end":855.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":855.96471875,"end":859.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":859.22159375,"end":863.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":863.18721875,"end":866.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":867.2709687500001,"end":868.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":868.9753437500001,"end":869.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":870.1228437500001,"end":871.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":871.42221875,"end":874.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":875.23596875,"end":876.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":877.1597187500001,"end":877.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":878.1047187500001,"end":879.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":879.99471875,"end":881.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":882.4584687500001,"end":886.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":883.8759687500001,"end":884.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":884.82096875,"end":885.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":886.49159375,"end":889.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":889.73159375,"end":891.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":891.6047187500001,"end":893.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":894.1359687500001,"end":896.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":896.5659687500001,"end":897.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":898.15221875,"end":899.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":899.82284375,"end":901.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":902.1853437500001,"end":903.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":904.19346875,"end":906.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":906.99471875,"end":908.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":909.4753437500001,"end":911.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":911.50034375,"end":913.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":913.74471875,"end":925.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":925.60784375,"end":925.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":925.86096875,"end":925.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":925.9622187500001,"end":927.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":927.6497187500001,"end":932.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":932.9484687500001,"end":934.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":934.2140937500001,"end":935.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":946.39784375,"end":946.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":947.3428437500002,"end":950.8697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":951.8315937500001,"end":954.3628437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.982,"end":26.657,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府總預算案官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士先生有請卓院長以及財政部莊部長和農業部的陳部長然後請經濟部的郭部長以及教育部的鄭部長請準備第二輪我們請卓院長、相關部會首長備詢總委員好院長好兩位部長好院長"},{"start":38.186,"end":66.116,"text":"昨晚10點你回官邸休息了嗎?幾點?10點10點我在家裡在家裡你知道旁邊的莊部長幾點才能回到家嗎?我知道那個時候還在立法院審財政收支劃分法你知道當我們財政收支劃分法在裁會審查的時候召委國民黨的陳昱珍委員他晚餐跑去喜來登吃大餐把所有的行政官員晾在那裡不知如何你知道嗎?"},{"start":67.336,"end":89,"text":"我不是很清楚你知道後來官員離席之後省以很久的陳昭偉又跑出到議場來跑到委員會又要把官員召回來莊部長有沒有這樣子有沒有這樣被找回來包括本席我們折騰到超過12點還在委員會回到宿舍已經快1點"},{"start":90.25,"end":112.711,"text":"部長、院長你覺得財政收支發分法在野黨要求增加的從多4千億到6千億不等撥給地方那當中央少了這4到6千億你覺得我們是要拿什麼錢去給地方是給國建國造陳將軍最關心的國建國造的錢嗎還是要什麼錢犧牲掉把這個錢撥給地方部長你覺得呢?莊部長"},{"start":114.2,"end":142.041,"text":"跟委員報告,其實我們在那個中央統籌分配稅款跟一般性補助款跟計畫性補助款這幾年是一直成長已經到114年已經超過一兆所以我們把錢如果撥給地方我們中央少的錢來支付什麼?支付國防預算?如果說依照信行那個災難的版本最高有到7000多億7000多億好7000多億先停下來院長,如果中央少的7000多億什麼錢既然撥給地方了什麼費用我們也交給地方付"},{"start":142.481,"end":156.772,"text":"是把老農津貼的預算支出交給地方來付?還是把中央對地方勞健保的補助款交給地方付?你覺得這樣可行嗎?我撥千億給你地方,那原來我幫你付的錢,老農津貼也好,勞健保補貼也好,我都交給你地方來支付,可以嗎?"},{"start":157.708,"end":158.609,"text":"所以院長我們要請行政院團隊跟全國人民說清楚"},{"start":183.249,"end":211.365,"text":"這些錢都是人民的,你要交給中央來執行,可以。你要多撥7千億給地方執行,可以。但是呢,就像過去精神之後啊,預算隨緣而一撥一樣。撥給你多少緣額,也多少預算給你。撥給你多少預算,多少支出也由你來付。這樣的說明,人民才理解,到底這7千億不是憑空掉下來的,是從他們原來向中央請領的老農津貼,向中央請領的勞健保的補助,現在向地方政府要。可以這樣去說明嗎?"},{"start":212.794,"end":228.319,"text":"我們說明的裡面的重點有列出這一項,剛剛部長講過不是一個地方的,超過一兆零一百五十億,裡面就包含這些。好,謝謝,莊部長請回。好,議長、部長,我現在要來問的,就是灌白建設,來跟擁天保條顧農民,風災農順、好社中建、緊處理,請我們的政部長跟貴部長也請來準備,請請教議長跟部長,議長,是不是所有的農民都是中農?"},{"start":241.588,"end":245.696,"text":"不是啦齁,意思是說,農民裡面是正中的那些,還是不是正中的那些?不是啦"},{"start":250,"end":264.608,"text":"政調會不會再多?政調會不會再多,不然你看看,我們來看,農作物的民宅裡面,我們的豬米真的是占三成,我們的農戶裡面的豬籠也是差不多占三成,但是三成的民宅的生產價值就不夠是三成,這就是為什麼政調會不會賺錢,因為政調價值也是供牛收工的原因。"},{"start":274.514,"end":276.615,"text":"議員,你認為多少正中外的中農可以交公牛?"},{"start":305.097,"end":327.137,"text":"負合主計 負合主計 一直跟你講啦 差不多三成啦 三分之一啦 全國的 中央戰 全國農夫的三成 議長請對話 可以交公寓的 也差不多三分之一所以你要看 是最終可以交公寓 平時政府公寓稍更好處的 農民不夠一成請問你可不可以知道 對一個縣市 公寓交通費"},{"start":331.548,"end":358.62,"text":"你知不知道,部長跟他講婚姻啊婚姻,婚姻到同時啦,我們來看婚姻到中華來比,他是專顧高工業超過一成半的但是中華,不管他的政策的面積,還是他的善良的比例,他都比婚姻多,給他1%、2%但是婚姻、收工的比例,超過中華地理名的10%所以你要知道,工業、收工在差的,經常人、教授人,部長、議長,議長你有同意嗎?"},{"start":362.478,"end":382.968,"text":"我跟委員報告,就是說公牛的部分因為無綱的關係,它的生產的面積不一樣,但...所以說婚姻館的地位,當然要求公牛收工啦!國民黨全黨背後這婚姻館的在算啦!我們看看一年齁,公牛收工,好像介紹六十塊的,會發生什麼問題?我告訴你,馬英九的時代,公牛收工介紹,介3個、介2個加起來,從233個調到28個。"},{"start":388.951,"end":393.234,"text":"這供需上會產生問題,他會可能跑到工糧收購,像我們長期推動的這些品牌。"},{"start":413.158,"end":415.86,"text":"當然不願意看到...這種事情對公民真的有幫助嗎?"},{"start":442.796,"end":455.08,"text":"沒有幫助嘛,所以我們來看,為了這次的供應收工,我們政府付出這麼大的代價多少?補償是不是146億?現在國民黨的主張是不是要開146億?都總含本來的供應收過大概176億左右。好,因為請補償,即時補償去查。過去到現在,現在未來,供應收工有特定職所人在哪好處嗎?去請知好不好?"},{"start":469.059,"end":492.008,"text":"而且每年會增加九十億...要清雜啦!有人在公寓收工這地方好處嗎?這樣好不好?好!來!來!我們繼續看齁!但是農民的...你知不知道?農民所有農水樓的息息啊!我們的農水樓灌白呢!每年都在成長!每年都在成長要經營5億!農水樓改善、農田水利息息改善、配水的施設方便、農民的省產,就這樣開花!你們有同意嗎?是!"},{"start":498.015,"end":507.341,"text":"所以你要看,我們的總預算,總預算全國有37萬公頃,這是有冠牌,全國有57萬的農田,有六成市,是有農田水利息息的服務,對不對?沒錯,平均沒有到六成,比全國平均那多?"},{"start":520.219,"end":547.58,"text":"差不多五時三、五時四左右,比全國平均那幾天議長,現在這次都保證,農業設施的慣敗,便當加強好不好?讓我們能夠達到全國平均好不好?保證,農業部有需要的縣市要加強。針對有需要的這些縣市,我們會加強水路的一個設施。現在議長駁斥這個環節,便當不是什麼,便當是中央照顧受救,我們的所有的設施都比全國平均那麼弱,我繼續看。"},{"start":549.594,"end":563.026,"text":"大陸這一位農民的鄉愁者,農民鄉愁的經濟部,經濟部長來齁,教育部長也來啦。我們的總副省啦,當地的啦,不是說電子,大家說齁,財政黨的團隊去電子,但是電子如果我們去過,農藥農民統計站,我們的一盒,用來給你用的電子,水車在排的電子,都是經濟部補助農民,農藥部長你說是不是?"},{"start":575.197,"end":593.687,"text":"昨晚一開始是農業部自己編列預算,然後之前就是由台電來補貼。現在政府省為了要接受人們鄉下的供油收工制度,才要把我們的政府省給凍掉。結果我們每年度農民、農業營電的補貼發不出去,因為你有沒有希望這個事情發生?"},{"start":599.218,"end":611.241,"text":"當然要照顧農民所以每一個農民都享受到農業用電的補貼為了接受人沒有辦法享受到我們來看繼續看來我們的農民用電差不多24億我們的土地農水農40億加起來100.9億農電水2.4億來補充這個三個方塊農村差不多多少錢"},{"start":625.356,"end":644.466,"text":"那個楷米颱風最後的結算大概是44億然後山陀爾是6億這個是速報速報就差不多三十八億了對不對所以你看這三十八億加上農水路加上用電步走加起來都不用一百四十六億"},{"start":645.954,"end":658.53,"text":"反對來說,這個公牛手槓就花一百四十六億,可以用來提升全國農民享受農水路的補助息息,可以讓全國農民享受到用電的補償,可以讓這個受損的、風態受損的農民去做補助,因為你們要加強來做這些的東西嗎?"},{"start":665.984,"end":681.38,"text":"主要委員說農民需要用電的步驟,這應該是全部農民都可以感受到需要到的。政府把我們的稅金放在這個關鍵的地方,好不好?是。好,來,我們繼續看。來,不然這樣而已,風太大有什麼事順?來,請正部長起來,抱歉,不然給過部長講好了。這個風的所在有嚴重嗎?"},{"start":689.111,"end":689.292,"text":"下一張"},{"start":700.711,"end":726.673,"text":"你有去看過嗎?有你有去看過這個土盤,叫H港要弄一天多一天才有泡沫弄到對不對?H港要整個穿過那個廚房,那個鋼筋水泥的圍牆要拜託,公牛收工一百四十六億,用在大型電波廠、用在大型農水路排水、用在農民的農水路道村!我們起來讓我們的學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學生、學"},{"start":727.847,"end":749.574,"text":"教育設施的受損是一定要趕快優先把它辦好,否則施生的安全慳慮,所以這個教育部會很積極地做好這件工作。好,請你把我們中央的學生不要讓教授去鄉修,要照顧全民好不好?照顧農民,照顧學生,好不好?當然,還要照顧民眾來,最後一項,這個已經過半天了,都要看你起來了,講到主來嘴,來,半天,全台灣啦,"},{"start":756.809,"end":783.637,"text":"全台灣吃煮來水的齁,同桌人吃煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌人沒煮來水、同桌"},{"start":785.765,"end":800.558,"text":"因為你們才聽得清楚,全國主來水的破紀律超過九成,屏東到近年才不用講到七成,都差兩成,你知道嗎?要看多年,屏東關的官民才享受到全國平均可以用主來水吃到主來水。"},{"start":804.141,"end":823.839,"text":"你不知道我告訴你啦,要90億啦,上一張,要90億啦,上一張,要90億,變坤坪來搞年,每年要變10億,後來在中央有一個無自來水地區的風水改善計畫第5期變75億,一年要用10億的預算,啊你都要搞年,因為中,民眾人會擔心久不久,你有要加薪嗎?不然中,你們有辦法加薪給民眾人,那早晚能吃就煮來水嗎?"},{"start":831.094,"end":851.703,"text":"跟這個委員報告,我們現在在專令來頒辦這個營工的這個作業,這個人工比較難吃啦。好,不管人工好吃、不好吃,我們有時候放進去,其他的部分我們提供來努力,好不好?我們來努力啦。好啊。一定。"},{"start":852.828,"end":880.76,"text":"剛才說的公牛收工一百四十六億,可以開啟對所有農村農民的照顧,可以開啟對全部農業用電補貼農民的照顧,可以開啟對灌牌息息全部農民的照顧,還可以補助候群。還有一項,針對屏東,你可以給屏東的主來稅一年多一年多五億,我們可以提早三年,破紀律,對到全國的標準,拜託議長可以支持嗎?"},{"start":882.606,"end":908.076,"text":"當然支持委員剛剛的建議。最後我希望說今天我在這裡特別向議員拜託。我們在國會典禮當中,民意代表都要為民來請署。但是請行政院要注意,我們這次開下去是多少人受邀。不要說114年度的開下去是抱分婚姻關、特定的農會、特定人士的地域。我們希望這114年度的開下去,"},{"start":909.542,"end":914.505,"text":"好的,委員剛剛所說的,如果當中有不法的情形我們查出來,但是我也希望農業部在明年能夠針對一級二短生育"},{"start":946.468,"end":948.433,"text":"謝謝。謝謝鍾佳濱委員質詢。謝謝左院長及部會首長的備詢。接下來請登記第18號羅志強委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":212,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（9時33分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請卓院長以及財政部莊部長和農業部陳部長，然後經濟部郭部長以及教育部鄭部長請準備第二輪。"],["主席：請卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：院長好，兩位部長好。院長，昨晚10點你回官邸休息了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：幾點？"],["鍾委員佳濱：10點。"],["卓院長榮泰：10點我在家裡。"],["鍾委員佳濱：在家裡，你知道旁邊的莊部長幾點才能回到家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道那個時候還在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：立法院審財政收支劃分法，你知道當我們財政收支劃分法在財委會審查的時候，召委──國民黨的陳玉珍委員，他晚餐跑去喜來登吃大餐，把所有的行政官員晾在那裡，不知如何，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不是很清楚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你知道後來官員離席之後，神隱很久的陳召委又跑到議場來、跑到委員會，又要把官員召回來，莊部長，有沒有這樣子？有沒有這樣被找回來？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們又再回到議場。"],["鍾委員佳濱：包括本席，我們折騰到超過12點還在委員會，回到宿舍已經快1點了。院長，你覺得財政收支劃分法，在野黨要求增加從4,000億到6,000億不等撥給地方，當中央少了這4,000億到6,000億，你覺得我們要拿什麼錢去給地方？是給陳將軍最關心的國艦國造錢嗎？還是要把什麼錢犧牲掉，然後把這個錢撥給地方？莊部長，你覺得呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，其實這幾年我們的中央統籌分配稅款跟一般性補助款跟計畫性補助款是一直在成長，到114年已經超過1兆……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以如果我們把錢撥給地方，中央少了錢來支付什麼？支付國防預算？"],["莊部長翠雲：依照現行在野黨的版本，最高有到七千多億，是增加七千多億……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，七千多億，先停下來。院長，如果中央少了七千多億，既然什麼錢撥給地方了，那什麼費用我們也交給地方付，是把老農津貼預算的支出交給地方來付，還是把中央對地方勞健保的補助款交給地方來付？你覺得這樣可行嗎？我撥7,000億給你地方，原來我幫你付的錢，老農津貼也好，勞健保補貼也好，我都交給你地方來支付，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩點跟委員報告，第一個，很可能會發生原來補助給地方的事務，相關的預算都會由地方來執行。但第二個問題是，地方執行的效果會如何，以及跨縣市、跨區域的計畫會如何執行？這個部分我們是比較沒有把握的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以院長，我們要請行政院團隊跟全國人民說清楚，這些錢都是人民的，你要交給中央來執行，可以！你要多撥7,000億給地方來執行，可以！但是就像過去精省之後預算隨員額移撥一樣，撥給你多少員額，也撥多少預算給你；撥給你多少預算，多少支出也由你來付，這樣的說明人民才理解，這7,000億不是憑空掉下來的，是從他們原來向中央請領的老農津貼、向中央請領的勞健保補助而來，現在要向地方政府要，可以這樣去說明嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們說明的重點有列出這一項。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長講過，補助給地方的超過1兆150億，裡面就包含這些。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝，莊部長請回。","院長、部長，我現在要問的就是「灌排建設用電補貼顧農民，風災農損校舍重建速處理」，也請鄭部長跟郭部長準備。","先請教院長跟部長，院長，是不是所有的農民都是稻農？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是啦！意思就是，農民裡面是種稻的比較多，還是非種稻的比較多？"],["卓院長榮泰：種稻的不會比較多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：種稻的不會比較多。部長，我們來看，農作物的面積裡面，我們的稻米真的是占三成，農戶裡面稻農也是差不多占三成，但是三成的面積生產價值不到一成三，這就是為什麼種稻不會賺錢，因為稻米的生產價值低，也是要公糧收購的原因。所以既然種稻的農民不是多數，請部長跟院長說，是不是種稻的農民都可以繳公糧？有資格限制嗎？拿不到地跟國家租土地的農民，連土地也沒有的，沒有土地的農民種稻還有辦法繳公糧嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：繳公糧有一定的規定，不是都可以繳。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有資格限制嘛！院長，你認為有多少種稻的稻農可以繳公糧？"],["卓院長榮泰：符合資格的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：直接跟你說，差不多三成、三分之一啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：三成裡面的三成。"],["鍾委員佳濱：全國的稻農占全國農戶的三成，其中種稻可以繳公糧的也差不多是三分之一，所以你看，實際上享受到政府公糧收購這個好處的農民不到一成。請問你知道哪一個縣市公糧繳最多嗎？院長知道嗎？請部長跟院長說。"],["卓院長榮泰：雲林。"],["陳部長駿季：雲林。"],["鍾委員佳濱：雲林繳最多啦！我們來看，雲林跟彰化來比，它是全國繳公糧有超過一成半的，但是彰化不管是種田面積還是產量比例都比雲林多，多了1%、2%，但是雲林收購的比例卻超過彰化第二名10%，所以你要知道在吵公糧收購的是特定人啦、少數人啦！院長，你同意嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，公糧的部分，因為不同縣市的生產面積不一樣，但整體來講……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以雲林縣的立委都在要求公糧收購，然後國民黨全黨陪他們在雲林縣玩。我們看下一個，如果公糧收購價調得很高，會發生什麼問題？我跟你講，馬英九的時代，公糧收購價格多3塊、多2塊，加起來從23塊調到28塊，民糧收購掉到剩19塊，這會發生什麼問題？院長，你覺得是什麼問題？公糧的價格高、民間的價格低，會發生什麼事情？會產生弊案！"],["卓院長榮泰：供需上會產生問題，民糧低，它可能會跑到公糧收購，我們長期推動的這些品牌……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們看馬英九時代有什麼弊案？第一、調包，公糧到期是不能打入、當作食品來賣的，是要碾碎後做飼料米，卻有人調包，把這些公糧拿去賣做營養午餐，把做飼料米的公糧拿去做營養午餐，不然就是盜賣，甚至在屏東有一個農會理事長拿人頭來收購公糧。院長，你願意讓這樣的事情發生嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然不願意看到過去歷史重演……"],["鍾委員佳濱：這種事情對農民有幫助嗎？沒有幫助！為了這些公糧收購，政府付出很大的代價，多少？部長，是不是146億？照現在國民黨的主張，是不是要花146億？"],["卓院長榮泰：總共含原來的公糧收購大概176億左右。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請院長指示部長去查，過去到現在，甚至未來公糧收購是不是有特定、少數人得到好處？去清查，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：而且每年會增加90億……"],["鍾委員佳濱：要清查是不是有人從公糧收購得到好處，這樣好不好？好，我們繼續看，但是農民需要什麼？農民需要農水路的設施，農水路灌排經費每年都在成長，每年要成長將近5億，農水路改善、農田水利設施改善、配水的設施方便，農民生產就比較輕鬆，院長同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你看總預算，全國有37萬公頃是有灌排的，全國有57萬的農田，六成四有農田水利設施的服務，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，屏東是不是平均不到六成，比全國平均低？"],["陳部長駿季：差不多五成三、五成四左右，確實比全國平均低。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請院長指示農業部長，加強屏東農業設施的灌排，好不好？讓我們可以達到全國平均，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：農業部針對有需要的縣市要加強。"],["陳部長駿季：我們一定會針對有需要的這些縣市，加強水路設施。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請院長保持這個原則，屏東不是窮，屏東是中央照顧太少，我們所有的設施都比全國平均弱。除了這個以外，農民可以享受什麼？請經濟部長來，請教育部長也來，總預算被擋住，不是大家說的在野黨反對漲電費，電費如果漲，農業、農民最悽慘！我們吃的蝦子，養殖戶用的電、水車運作用的電，都要靠經濟部補助農民，農業部長說是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：從明年開始，是農業部自己編列預算。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["陳部長駿季：之前是由台電來補貼。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在為了少數人享受的公糧收購制度，在野黨把總預算擋住，結果明年度農民農業用電的補貼發不出去。院長，你希望這件事情發生嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然要照顧農民基礎的需要。"],["鍾委員佳濱：每一個農民都享受得到的農業用電補貼，為了少數人，卻沒辦法享受到。農民用電補貼差不多24億，剛才提到的農水路補助46億，加起來109億，包括農田水利設施。部長，這次三個颱風的農損差不多多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：凱米颱風到最後的結算大概是44億、山陀兒是6億，這個是速報。"],["鍾委員佳濱：速報就差不多38億了，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你看這38億，加上農水路及用電補助，加起來都不到146億。反過來說，光是公糧收購就要花146億，可以用來提升全國農民享受的農水路設施補助，可以讓全國農民享受到用電的補貼，也可以讓這次颱風受損的農民得到補助。院長，你有要加強來做這些東西嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，剛才委員所說的農民需要的用電補助，應該是全部農民都可以感受得到、需要的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我希望政府把我們的稅金用在這個關鍵的地方，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，來，我們繼續看，不只是這樣，颱風還造成什麼受損？請鄭部長上台，抱歉，還沒讓郭部長講到話，這一次校園受災有嚴重嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實，山陀兒颱風在屏東這裡算很大的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，你有親自去看，非常感謝……"],["鄭部長英耀：我有去看幾間學校……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你看看是不是下面這幾張照片？你有去看過嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你有去看過這個廚房那一天被撞了一個很大的洞，好像炮彈炸到，對嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：整個穿過廚房的鋼筋水泥圍牆……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，院長，要跟你拜託，公糧收購146億剛才有說要用在用電補貼、用在農水路排水、用在農民農損還有剩，我們就拿來讓我們的學生讀書的校園趕快恢復，好不好？讓我們的校園趕快恢復，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：教育設施的受損是一定要趕快優先把它辦好，否則師生的安全堪慮，所以這個教育部會很積極地做好這件工作。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，請你把我們中央的預算不要只讓少數人享受，要照顧全民，好嗎？照顧農民、照顧學生，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：重點是還要照顧屏東。來談最後一項，講到自來水，這時候要請郭部長上台了，部長，全臺灣飲用自來水，最少人使用但最多人沒有自來水可用的是哪一個縣市？"],["郭部長智輝：接水、接管不太順利……"],["鍾委員佳濱：接管的普及率是不是屏東最少？屏東最少嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：現在屏東從106年50.83%提升到113年6月已經來到71.53%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，請院長聽清楚，全國自來水的普及率超過九成，屏東到今年才勉強到七成，還差兩成，你知道要花多少年，屏東縣縣民才能享受並達到全國的平均值而可以使用自來水、飲用自來水？你不知道，我跟你說啦，要90億！要90億啦！平均在未來九年每年要編10億，幸好中央有一個無自來水地區供水改善計畫第五期編75億，一年要用10億的預算，這樣就要九年，院長，屏東人會不會等太久？你有要加強嗎？部長，你們有辦法加強讓屏東人早點可以飲用自來水嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我們現在在全力來趕辦延管作業，但找人力比較困難。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，不管人力是否好找，我們把預算編下去，其他的部分讓我們地方來努力，好不好？我們來努力啦！"],["郭部長智輝：好啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：院長，剛才說的公糧收購146億，可以花在所有農損及農民的照顧，可以花在對全部農業用電的補貼及農民的照顧，可以花在對灌排設施全部農民的照顧，還有可以補助校園，還有一項，針對屏東，你可以讓屏東的自來水一年不用花很多錢，只要一年多5億，我們可以提早三年讓普及率跟上全國的標準，拜託院長，可以來支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然支持委員剛剛的建議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。最後，我希望，今天我在這裡就要跟院長拜託，我們在國會殿堂當中，民意代表當然為民來爭取，但是請行政院要注意，我們這些錢花下去是多少人受益，不要讓這146億花下去是部分雲林縣特定的農會、特定人士在得利，我們希望這146億花下去，用電的農民得到補助，灌排設施的農民得到補助，我們的農損得到救助，我們的校園蓋得更快，還有屏東縣的自來水可以早一天達到全國平均九成，每年多編預算給屏東縣做自來水，你說，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，委員剛剛所說的，如果當中有不法的情形，我們查出來，但是我也希望農業部在明年針對「1集、2轉、3加3」這個部分能夠有新的作為，讓農民能夠感受到確實政府的政策是普遍照顧到所有的農民，應該提出新的制度。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，感謝院長、感謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝鍾佳濱委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。","接下來請登記第18號羅智強委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156496","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156496","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d41426ec49d2aa8462fe3fd33acf0e4cf8b21acfac236e8b07d1f8b1bbbc21182005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:17:06 - 09:33:20","影片長度":"00:16:14","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T09:17:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T09:33:20+08:00","duration":974,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.090968750000002,"end":21.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.238468750000003,"end":25.883468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.558468750000003,"end":26.777843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.27534375,"end":30.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.148468750000003,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.78534375,"end":34.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.97471875,"end":36.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.88596875,"end":37.594718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.314718750000004,"end":48.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.55096875,"end":48.259718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.59721875,"end":49.407218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.710968750000006,"end":50.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.80784375,"end":57.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.16096875,"end":59.346593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.852843750000005,"end":61.135343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.797843750000006,"end":60.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.135343750000004,"end":63.750968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.05471875,"end":64.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.84784375000001,"end":67.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.34534375,"end":68.67846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.15096875,"end":71.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.96909375,"end":72.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.63534375,"end":81.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.73971875000001,"end":85.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.72221875000001,"end":86.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.56596875000001,"end":89.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.48534375,"end":91.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.30346875000001,"end":102.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.30596875,"end":106.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.03534375000001,"end":109.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.56659375000001,"end":111.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.72221875000001,"end":114.20721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.42659375000001,"end":117.32909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.26971875000001,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.17971875,"end":129.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.94284375,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.75221875,"end":139.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.44784375,"end":141.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.84846875,"end":160.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.51909375,"end":143.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.95096875000002,"end":166.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.99221875,"end":169.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.82721875000001,"end":184.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.40846875,"end":176.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.73284375,"end":180.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.57596875000002,"end":185.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.19596875000002,"end":186.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.69784375,"end":188.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.26721875,"end":204.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.77284375000002,"end":193.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.82346875000002,"end":193.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.78409375,"end":223.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.27846875,"end":225.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.13909375,"end":230.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.64909375000002,"end":237.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.35659375,"end":239.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.79096875000002,"end":241.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.47846875000002,"end":243.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.92534375000002,"end":250.64159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.64596875,"end":252.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.53596875000002,"end":253.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.75096875000003,"end":261.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.30659375,"end":277.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.30159375,"end":266.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.82721875000004,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.93596875000003,"end":290.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.85471875,"end":309.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.99096875000004,"end":310.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.15534375000004,"end":313.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.75409375000004,"end":313.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.93971875,"end":316.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.77471875000003,"end":320.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.78659375,"end":327.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.43596875000003,"end":324.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.24971875,"end":329.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.83596875,"end":334.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.62846875,"end":341.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.72971875,"end":335.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.40784375000004,"end":353.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.00909375000003,"end":357.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.72596875000005,"end":359.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.26596875,"end":359.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.45159375000003,"end":362.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.08409375,"end":363.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.75034375,"end":369.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.76221875000005,"end":371.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.43284375,"end":378.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.01909375,"end":373.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.56284375,"end":386.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.70471875000004,"end":387.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.05471875,"end":397.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.36534375,"end":400.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.11159375000005,"end":403.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.38971875000004,"end":404.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.72284375000004,"end":408.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.86159375000005,"end":409.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.68409375000005,"end":411.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.76409375000003,"end":413.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.87346875000003,"end":415.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.38346875,"end":418.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.83471875000004,"end":432.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.33534375000005,"end":430.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.84971875,"end":434.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.93346875000003,"end":444.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.85721875,"end":437.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.97409375,"end":447.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.90221875000003,"end":450.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.64034375000006,"end":447.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.94784375,"end":481.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.35221875,"end":487.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.00596875,"end":491.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.97096875000005,"end":496.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.52721875000003,"end":497.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.11784375,"end":505.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.11221875,"end":507.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.33096875,"end":512.1028437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.88346875,"end":519.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.03409375,"end":527.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.79659375,"end":528.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.8303437500001,"end":530.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.41221875,"end":532.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.2978437500001,"end":535.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.6728437500001,"end":538.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.2590937500001,"end":539.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.43596875,"end":541.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.0559687500001,"end":544.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.3803437500001,"end":548.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.3503437500001,"end":551.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.4340937500001,"end":553.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.04971875,"end":559.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.23471875,"end":562.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.42034375,"end":560.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.4622187500001,"end":569.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.5959687500001,"end":571.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.1272187500001,"end":572.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.86971875,"end":574.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.16909375,"end":574.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.18596875,"end":579.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.9740937500001,"end":583.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.1128437500001,"end":583.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.88909375,"end":584.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.74971875,"end":586.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.09534375,"end":588.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.90096875,"end":590.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.31846875,"end":594.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.65596875,"end":591.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.5203437499999,"end":597.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.10221875,"end":600.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.1147187500001,"end":598.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.91596875,"end":617.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.3034687500001,"end":610.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.9934687500001,"end":625.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.80659375,"end":661.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.1728437500001,"end":666.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.74159375,"end":664.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.44159375,"end":668.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.67784375,"end":671.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.5547187500001,"end":679.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.62096875,"end":682.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.17784375,"end":680.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.68784375,"end":685.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.73409375,"end":700.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.77971875,"end":690.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.0534687500001,"end":694.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.86659375,"end":702.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.5203437499999,"end":704.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.95034375,"end":707.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.49409375,"end":710.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.6372187500001,"end":718.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.3490937500001,"end":723.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.4622187500001,"end":743.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.8372187500001,"end":728.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.16784375,"end":754.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.73159375,"end":764.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.51596875,"end":772.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.35346875,"end":777.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.6984687500001,"end":783.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.11096875,"end":786.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.3134687500001,"end":786.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.2709687500001,"end":786.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.79409375,"end":788.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.5322187500001,"end":790.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.15221875,"end":796.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.76721875,"end":801.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.5047187500002,"end":804.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":803.4834687500002,"end":809.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.3684687500001,"end":811.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":812.3259687500001,"end":813.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.67596875,"end":814.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.67159375,"end":819.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.7890937500001,"end":820.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":819.5147187500002,"end":823.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.07534375,"end":824.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.3915937500001,"end":825.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.2859687500002,"end":831.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.15909375,"end":836.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":837.1828437500001,"end":839.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.5790937500001,"end":840.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.7265937500001,"end":843.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.05096875,"end":844.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.58659375,"end":846.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.66221875,"end":848.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.40034375,"end":853.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.99034375,"end":859.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":859.94721875,"end":866.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":867.4397187500001,"end":870.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.9834687500002,"end":874.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":875.40471875,"end":875.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.07534375,"end":881.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.4253437500001,"end":882.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":882.5090937500001,"end":888.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":886.7109687500001,"end":889.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":889.5459687500002,"end":890.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":891.14909375,"end":892.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.57096875,"end":893.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":893.6297187500002,"end":894.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.5578437500001,"end":898.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":896.63346875,"end":901.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.5359687500002,"end":900.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.98721875,"end":901.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":902.1684687500001,"end":907.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":908.29409375,"end":920.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.9353437500001,"end":910.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":920.0390937500001,"end":923.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.7178437500002,"end":925.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.7765937500001,"end":927.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":927.9365937500002,"end":930.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":928.67909375,"end":934.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.92346875,"end":933.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.04096875,"end":938.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":937.13346875,"end":940.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":940.5590937500001,"end":941.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":942.60096875,"end":943.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.8328437500002,"end":946.6509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":946.70159375,"end":947.4947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.4947187500002,"end":949.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":964.09971875,"end":967.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":971.3390937500001,"end":973.83659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":24.291,"end":24.711,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":47.652,"end":72.734,"text":"委員長好,今天我想要跟院長單獨對話,可以嗎?其他部會不要上來。所以我想要請教一下,我們今天大家都來質詢我們的院長的目的是什麼?"},{"start":74.696,"end":102.179,"text":"希望我能夠說明之後讓總預算能夠順利覆尾審查完畢之後明年度我們能夠幫所有的政策有一個執行的能力跟時程好對所以呢下一頁所以我就是因為這個事情我們要來執行的嘛所以我用越南語要學那個吳思瑤我要用越南語跟大家呼應一下"},{"start":103.399,"end":105.26,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．麥玉珍"},{"start":119.558,"end":136.278,"text":"這個就是我們要你代表行政就是政府機構我代表的民間團體要來跟你對話民間團體是國民一起來去對話非常抱歉你說的跟吳士耀委員一樣的好聽但是話還是聽不懂"},{"start":137.699,"end":165.416,"text":"當然你聽得懂的話你就是越南人你要學越南語所以我們進入正題我想要請教一下我們行政院在送中央行政機關組織基本法修正草案在推動運動部還有全民運動署的機構數量修法是包含新住民發展署對嗎"},{"start":167.165,"end":167.385,"text":"主席"},{"start":187.762,"end":200.371,"text":"原來的體育署將來我們在全民運動署會歸屬到運動部下面去所以這個機關的數量我們也已經在整個限制額底下所以機關額數底下已經是"},{"start":202.813,"end":223.063,"text":"是,所以說我們新住民發展署是我們總統在8月12號公布嘛,所以在我們的立法的過程也是說大概一年就會成立新住民發展署,所以是在修法的時候是已經是考量在裡面,已經在訂在裡面了嗎?"},{"start":226.884,"end":228.526,"text":"當然要查清楚,之後說的才算啊。"},{"start":241.933,"end":260.963,"text":"所以說你在修法的時候不是考量立法,是考量你想說還是考量立法?考量法律的規定。我們中央機關組織基準法裡面對所謂的原額跟機關數量的限制,我們考量是這個限制不是誰說的算。"},{"start":261.363,"end":290.081,"text":"好,這樣考量的限制就是依法來去做考量來去立法來去改變嘛所以就等於是你有把新住民基本那個發展署放在裡面這樣我才知道說什麼時候因為一年後嘛一年後就是八月是一年後就是明年八月所以如果是這樣子的話我們就是要大量去推廣我們大量去推廣要跟"},{"start":290.982,"end":320.271,"text":"新住民全國的新住民說我們的新住民發展署就是明年就會即將成立所以我們就是要去邀約還有就是讓大家設個目標來去共同去努力往這個方面來去成為發展署的成員是不是這樣我們現在在推的是運動部跟全民運動署在這個中央組織機關裡面的調整是這個方式"},{"start":321.84,"end":341.566,"text":"所以說你就是一直在說運動署,所以新住民發展署是沒有考量在裡面嗎?是沒有在照修法來去做初步的去預算?這個需要再進一步的研議啦,我們現在在整個數量的限制上面就是這個樣子,剛剛可能有人報告的。"},{"start":342.472,"end":367.77,"text":"所以這個樣子就是表示說在依法的來去規劃來去修法在新住民發展署是在你的修法的裡面是不是目前我們還要在研議這個事情研議是不照法律的規定研議就是我們繼續努力的意思繼續努力所以說就明年就會實現"},{"start":370.191,"end":385.673,"text":"實現也是需要努力啊對 實現當然是要努力啊但是有目標有規劃才能努力才能達成嘛目標是可以目標是很清楚那10層我們要想辦法在一個法定的基礎底下能夠推動那10層才能夠定得出來"},{"start":387.389,"end":415.162,"text":"所以都是說努力跟推廣但是我們是依法嘛所以我要請教一下我們現在你摸著院長摸著良心講你的眼睛有沒有有我你的眼裡有沒有我有嗎在這個議事廳裡面接著對話的就是你跟我有沒有只有只有你委員跟我在對話你眼裡有沒有我"},{"start":417.601,"end":429.987,"text":"這個回家不好交代不好交代所以呢你眼裡有我是正常人因為你看著我你眼裡有我是正常人如果沒有的話你要去看醫生了那這樣講是說我的眼前有你不能說眼裡有我"},{"start":435.309,"end":450.443,"text":"對,你眼裡有我,就是你表示你的心裡會把新住民發展署放在心裡。如果你的眼裡沒有看到我的話,你的心裡就把新住民變成惡等。我眼前,眼前我們是在對話,新住民發展署我們會放在心裡,這樣子。"},{"start":451.084,"end":453.645,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間．麥玉珍二、上午9時為國是論壇時間．麥玉珍"},{"start":472.851,"end":480.83,"text":"所以在接下來我請教一下我們的院長我們中華民國的中華民國是法治國家對嗎?"},{"start":482.409,"end":507.514,"text":"所以我們站在這裏對話,民主最高的電台,當然是啊!如果是法治國家,是不是我們都要遵守我們的法律的規定,包含你,是嗎?沒錯!好,如果是這樣子的話,比如說萬一院長你開車出去撞死人了,是警察馬上辦,還是要通過行政院同意才能辦?"},{"start":510.579,"end":533.891,"text":"現行犯警察馬上說起來好馬上說起來所以呢所以我們如果是法治國家我們要不要就是依法來去編列預算為什麼你不編我很納悶所以我想要了解因為你讀法律比我懂為什麼為什麼不依法不照法律來編列再度提醒委員預算法91條的規定"},{"start":536.701,"end":551.317,"text":"立法院在對行政院審查預算法律的時候對於稅出有增加稅出的時候必須徵詢行政院的意見同時要指出彌補資金之來源換句話說"},{"start":555.083,"end":571.57,"text":"委員在審查預算或是法案的時候所以你是依法行政嘛 對不對有兩個要件一個要徵詢行政院的意見一個要找出增加這筆預算它的資金來源在哪裡好 所以你是依法行政嘛 是嗎"},{"start":572.89,"end":588.247,"text":"要依這個法行政?好,你依法行政的話,這樣子我們的法律通過的是多少萬?幾萬?我們經法補償是幾萬?依法通過的?6萬。所以你有依法去編列嗎?那3萬的來源在哪裡?"},{"start":590.529,"end":615.73,"text":"三萬的來源,彌補資金的來源,增加的三萬來源在哪裡?我現在問你的是依法編列嘛。依法就要指出三萬的來源在哪裡,我才能依法啊。對,依法來源在哪裡,你自己要去想辦法。哪有這種事?我編了預算,你把它增加,叫我自己來源去想辦法。剛才,因為我的門的助理很厲害啦,他知道說你一定要回我就是91條還有70條。"},{"start":618.072,"end":631.479,"text":"但是呢我要跟你講的明確的用於預算法不包含法律法律案預算案不包含法律案所以預算案呢第91條"},{"start":633.28,"end":652.776,"text":"也就是要求立法委員徵詢行政院的意見而非取得同意所以立法院三讀通過後行政院或有異議在10天內提出覆議你沒有提出覆議表示你同意"},{"start":653.916,"end":682.548,"text":"你有同意,你覺得有這個預算你要去算嘛,對不對?委員這一天,那一天我們在參敘中都講得很清楚你只記得你的問題,你從來不瞭解我的答案對,你說,再講一次,讓大家聽到我知道你說為什麼行政院不提出復議那天我也說了,我想用其他的方式其他的方式還有很多那提出復議其他方式我們有沒有依法?"},{"start":683.957,"end":705.567,"text":"對,要依法,為什麼我們不要依法去編列,再來明年你再提出來其他方式呢?因為我們今年是我們依法,我們要拜託你依法,你說疑心不忍嘛,對不對?我現在,我也疑心不忍,因為呢,之前你還記得2019年你當"},{"start":708.53,"end":721.367,"text":"民進黨的主席我是因為你我才加入民進黨的因為很多人推薦我但是有一個人跟我講說要跟卓院長也要去學習他當"},{"start":723.59,"end":723.87,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":740.296,"end":743.64,"text":"我覺得我現在最重要的工作就是建立一套"},{"start":757.877,"end":783.215,"text":"兩院互動的關係一定要在憲法跟法律的基礎底下我們希望依法來去編列剛才你有講依法是多少?是6萬但是你沒有依法4萬從哪裡來?我們看不到委員你可以再請教你那個厲害的助理那增加了3萬資金來源在哪裡?資金來源在哪裡?如果你富裕你就來說明但是你沒有富裕表示你心裡有數"},{"start":784.636,"end":800.901,"text":"復議的原因我已經講過了,如果我復議,就表示說這個程序是合理的。好,我要問你,如果是說進法補償金,它是針對原住民本來就是有必要要去補償的,對不對?"},{"start":802.521,"end":819.331,"text":"對,原來的法律,立法後也是原來的法律,但是這些人是不是有必要的,必要要補償他們,是不是必要?不管3萬還是6萬,你再跟我講,必要的還是不必要的?對,必要的,你說必要的是..."},{"start":824.454,"end":831.176,"text":"任何一個補助的案件都不應該從3萬加到6萬。但是呢,必要的我們要去給他們。預算的是不是必要的?"},{"start":847.888,"end":874.593,"text":"還沒有執行嘛預算就像說你要給的就是現在3兆多你要給的是誰就是我們的電視台還有媒體還有就是打仗還有其他等等你預算的預算的算不算土利廠商你還沒有必要給的你預算的算不算土利"},{"start":877.113,"end":888.106,"text":"立法院在審查預算的時候是!所以審查預算是預算預算還沒有說執行你就覺得這個預算要給他們但是呢預算是圖利廠商那這樣想起來"},{"start":893.732,"end":897.294,"text":"從來沒有人說進法補償是不必要或違憲的"},{"start":923.786,"end":933.032,"text":"你說的違憲我說的是程序上這樣來說是違背憲法的程序我從來沒有說禁法補償是違憲的因為在協商之前我們同意4萬草野協商沒有同意沒有任何人簽同意從哪一個"},{"start":964.117,"end":967.522,"text":"好,謝謝,時間到,謝謝謝謝麥玉珍委員質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":83,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（9時17分）謝謝院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：院長好。今天我想要跟院長單獨對話，可以嗎？其他部會不要上來，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：坐著就可以，不用離開。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，不用他們，你一個人就好了。所以我想要請教一下，今天大家都來質詢我們院長的目的是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：希望我能夠說明之後，讓總預算能夠順利付委，審查完畢之後，明年度我們能夠幫所有的政策有一個執行的能力跟時程。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，所以我就是因為這個事情，我們要來質詢，所以我用要學吳思瑤，用越南語跟大家呼籲一下「總預算不分黨派，希望行政院遵守臺灣法律，依照所需資源分配總預算（越南語）」。你代表行政，就是政府機構，我代表的民間團體要來跟你對話……不是民間團體，是國民，一起來對話。"],["卓院長榮泰：麥委員，非常抱歉，你說的跟吳思瑤委員一樣的好聽，但是我還是聽不懂。"],["麥委員玉珍：當然，你聽得懂的話，你就是越南人，你要學越南語。所以我們進入正題，我想要請教一下我們行政院在送中央行政機關組織基本法修正草案，在推動運動部還有全民運動署機關數量修法是包含新住民發展署對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，再重複一次您的問題。"],["麥委員玉珍：因為我是看到中央行政機關組織基準法有在推動修正草案，裡面是不是包含了我們的新住民發展署？"],["卓院長榮泰：原來的體育署，我們將來會將全民運動組歸屬到運動部下面去。"],["麥委員玉珍：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以機關的數量我們在限制員額、機關額度底下已經是……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們新住民發展署是我們總統在8月12號公布的，而我們立法的過程也答應要在一年成立新住民發展署，在修法的時候就已經把它考量在裡面並定在裡面了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個我應該要再查清楚一下，我們現在是在運動部裡面有全民發展署。"],["麥委員玉珍：所謂查清楚是要依法行事還是真的是查清楚，以你說的算？跟這個一樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然要查清楚，之後說的才算啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：所以在修法的時候不是考量立法，是考量你想說的，還是考量……"],["卓院長榮泰：考量法律的規定，我們中央行政機關組織基準法裡對所有員額跟機關數量的限制，我們考量的是這個限制，不是誰說的算。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，要考量的限制就是依法去考量、去立法還有去改變嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：當然。"],["麥委員玉珍：等於是你有把新住民發展署放在裡面，這樣我才知道什麼時候……因為一年後，也就是明年8月嘛！如果是這樣子的話，我們就是要大量去推廣，要跟全國的新住民說我們的新住民發展署明年即將成立，要去邀約還有要讓大家去設個目標共同去努力，往這個方面去成為發展署的成員，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在在推的是運動部跟全民運動署，在這個中央行政機關組織基準法裡的調整是這個方式。"],["麥委員玉珍：你一直在說全民運動署，所以新住民發展署是沒有考量在裡面嗎？是沒有照修法在做初步的預算嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個須要進一步地研議，我們現在在整個數量的限制上面就是剛剛跟委員報告的這個樣子。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以這個樣子就表示會依法規劃、修法，而新住民發展署也在你修法裡面是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我們還要再研議這個事情。"],["麥委員玉珍：研議？研議是指不照法律規定？"],["卓院長榮泰：研議就是我們會繼續努力的意思。"],["麥委員玉珍：繼續努力，所以明年就會實現嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：實現也須要努力啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：實現當然須要努力，但要有目標、有規劃的努力才會達成嘛！如果沒有目標的話……"],["卓院長榮泰：目標是可以啦，目標是很清楚，只是時程我們要想辦法在法定的基礎底下能夠推動，那個時程才能訂得出來。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以雖都說要努力跟推廣，但是也要依法嘛！我要請教一下，我們現在……請院長摸著良心講，你的眼睛有沒有我？你的眼裡有沒有我，有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：在這個議室廳裡面，現在在對話的就是你跟我。"],["麥委員玉珍：有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：只有委員跟我在對話。"],["麥委員玉珍：你眼裡有沒有我啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個回家不好交代啦！"],["麥委員玉珍：不好交代？所以你眼裡有我才是正常人，因為你看著我，你眼裡有我就是正常人，如果沒有的話就要去看醫生了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，那這樣講的話，委員，我要跟你說一下……"],["麥委員玉珍：我是說你的眼裡有我……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，正確的說法是，我的眼前有你，不能說我的眼裡有你。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，你的眼裡有我就表示你會把新住民發展署放在心裡，如果你的眼裡沒有看到我的話，你的心裡就是把新住民變成二等公民。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，可以。委員，眼前我們是在對話，新住民發展署我們會放在心裡。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，如果是這樣的話，我希望我們的新住民發展署就是你已經答應的，所以是不是要全國去說明，要招募更多人在新住民這邊？還有，此事是你要去辦還是委任其他人去辦，我們希望你要去執行，這個就是今天你答應我們的。","接下來，我請教一下院長，我們中華民國是法治國家，對嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們站在這裡對話……"],["麥委員玉珍：是嗎？我問你，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：民主最高的殿堂。"],["麥委員玉珍：是不是法治國家？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然是啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：好，如果是法治國家，是不是我們都要遵守我們法律的規定，包含你，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，如果是這樣子的話，比如萬一院長開車出去撞死人了，是警察馬上辦，還是要通過行政院同意才能辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：現行犯，警察馬上抓起來了。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，馬上辦。所以我們如果是法治國家，我們要不要依法去編列預算？為什麼你不編？我很納悶，所以我想要瞭解，因為你讀法律，比我懂，為什麼？為什麼不依法來編列？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我再度提醒委員預算法第九十一條的規定，立法院在對行政院審查預算、法律的時候，對於歲出有增加的時候，必須徵詢行政院的意見，同時要指出彌補資金之來源，換句話說，委員在審查預算或是法案的時候，增加了行政院……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你是依法行政，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：有兩個要件，一個要徵詢行政院的意見，一個要找出增加這筆預算的資金來源在哪裡。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，所以你是依法行政，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：要依這個法行政。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，你依法行政的話，請問我們法律通過的禁伐補償是多少萬？"],["卓院長榮泰：6萬。"],["麥委員玉珍：6萬，所以你有依法去編列嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：那3萬的來源在哪裡？"],["麥委員玉珍：一樣是依法，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：彌補資金之來源、增加3萬的來源在哪裡？"],["麥委員玉珍：我現在問你的是依法編列……"],["卓院長榮泰：依法就要指出3萬的來源在哪裡，我才能夠依法啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：對，你依法，來源在哪裡，你自己要去想辦法……"],["卓院長榮泰：哪有這種事……"],["麥委員玉珍：你要怎麼樣去編預算，但是照你說的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我編的預算，你把它增加，來源叫我自己去想辦法。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們的助理很厲害，他知道你一定要回我第九十一條還有第七十條，但是我要跟你明確的講，預算案不包含法律案，預算法第九十一條，也就是要求立法委員徵詢行政院的意見，而非取得同意，所以立法院三讀通過後，行政院若有異議，要在十天內提出覆議，你沒有提出覆議，表示你同意，你有同意，你覺得有這個法律，你才要去算，對不對？如果你不同意的話，你就不會……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，那一天我們在餐敘中都講得很清楚了，你只記得你的問題，你從來不不瞭解我的答案……"],["麥委員玉珍：好，你再講一次，讓大家聽到你講什麼。"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道你說為什麼行政院不提出覆議？那天我也說了，我想用其他的方式，其他的方式還有很多，那提出覆議……"],["麥委員玉珍：其他方式，我們有沒有依法？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然要依法啊！依的就是……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，要依法，為什麼我們沒有依法去編列，明年再提出其他方式呢？今年……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你請你的……"],["麥委員玉珍：今年是我們要拜託你依法。你說於心不忍，對不對？我現在也於心不忍，你還記得之前2019年你當民進黨的主席，我是因為你才加入民進黨的，當時很多人推薦我，其中有一個人跟我講，要跟卓院長學習，你當我們的主席，待在這邊的話，我可以學到很多，因為你的人很好……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，那你後來為什麼離開？"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我於心不忍，你已經在這邊忍耐了四年，現在出來當行政院長，你不能再忍耐不要再做其他的了，我希望你永續為我們的行政工作，我希望是這樣，所以我也於心不忍，不希望你為了這件事情負責，我希望你繼續為我們的人民來工作……"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得我現在最重要的工作就是建立一套兩院互動的關係……"],["麥委員玉珍：沒錯，建立一套，但是我們的法條你都有看到……"],["卓院長榮泰：一定要在憲法及法律的基礎底下……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們希望你依法去編列，剛才你有講，依法是多少？是6萬，但是你沒有依法，4萬從哪裡來，我們看不到、我們不知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你可以再請教你那個厲害的助理，那增加的3萬，資金來源在哪裡？"],["麥委員玉珍：資金來源在哪裡，如果你覆議，你就來說明，但是你沒有覆議，表示你心裡有數，你知道怎麼樣去編列。"],["卓院長榮泰：不覆議的原因我已經講過了，如果我覆議，就表示這個程序是合理的。"],["麥委員玉珍：我要問你，禁伐補償金是針對原住民，本來就是有必要要去補償的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：原來的法律是有這樣的規定。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，原來的法律，立法後也是原來的法律，但是對於這些人是不是有必要要補償他們？是不是必要？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果隨著……"],["麥委員玉珍：不管是3萬還是6萬，你跟我講，是必要的，還是不必要的？"],["卓院長榮泰：必要要看程度。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，必要的，你說必要的。"],["卓院長榮泰：必要要看程度，任何一個補助的案件都不應該從3萬增加到6萬。"],["麥委員玉珍：所有的法律通過都是經過所有的立委討論、研議，花了很多時間才立法通過，但是，必要的我們要去給他們。預算是不是必要的？預算還沒有執行，就像現在三兆多，你要給的是誰？就是我們的電視臺，還有媒體，還有打詐，還有其他等等，你預算的，預算的算不算圖利廠商？你還沒有必要給的，你預算的算不算圖利？"],["卓院長榮泰：立法院在審查預算的時候，實質的審查……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以審查預算是預算，預算還沒有執行，你就覺得這個預算要給他們，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你這個邏輯我聽不大懂，預算是圖利廠商，那這樣講起來……"],["麥委員玉珍：預算你要給媒體的有多少錢，你要給的……"],["卓院長榮泰：都要經過合理的、法定的招標程序再來，不是隨便給的啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：沒錯，所以這個就是預算，你還沒有執行，你為什麼說無法執行，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：程序不符合。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我們原住民的禁伐補償，它是必要的，要給他們，是利民利國的，為什麼我們沒辦法去執行？"],["卓院長榮泰：從來沒有人說禁伐補償是不必要或違憲的。"],["麥委員玉珍：你說的，違憲。"],["卓院長榮泰：我說的是程序上這樣來做是違背憲法的程序，我從來沒有說禁伐補償是違憲的。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以這4萬從哪裡來的？依據哪個法律？依據那個規定？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為在協商之前，我們同意4萬。"],["麥委員玉珍：協商跟誰協商？"],["卓院長榮泰：朝野協商。"],["麥委員玉珍：朝野協商沒有同意，沒有任何人簽同意，從哪一個？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們行政院同意4萬，但是這個意見從來沒有被重視。"],["麥委員玉珍：你說的，不是別人的……"],["卓院長榮泰：是行政院的意思，不是我說的。"],["麥委員玉珍：行政院的意思，但是沒有經過大家同意，所以我今天是來拜託你……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以要徵詢行政院的意思……"],["主席：好，謝謝，時間到。"],["麥委員玉珍：不要浪費大家的時間，希望你要編預算，拜託你。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝麥玉珍委員質詢、謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第17號鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},{"id":"156495","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156495","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d410ee90b703b90ecd2e3fd33acf0e4cf8b21acfac236e8b07d63cfaa1421ca07f45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:00:29 - 09:17:00","影片長度":"00:16:31","會議時間":"2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-05","start_time":"2024-11-05T09:00:29+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-05T09:17:00+08:00","duration":991,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-2-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":7},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.965343750000002,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.63159375,"end":18.188468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.27159375,"end":27.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.60471875,"end":28.465343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.29221875,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.827843750000003,"end":32.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.08909375,"end":33.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.118468750000005,"end":36.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.85221875,"end":38.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.040343750000005,"end":48.664718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.39034375,"end":50.048468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.33534375,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.697843750000004,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.52034375,"end":56.882843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.203468750000006,"end":66.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.73784375000001,"end":79.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.74846875,"end":84.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.96284375,"end":88.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.65846875000001,"end":91.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.47659375,"end":93.92346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.97409375000001,"end":94.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.17659375000001,"end":96.47159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.28159375,"end":126.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.01096875000002,"end":128.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.78284375,"end":131.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.82471875000002,"end":136.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.76471875000001,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.30409375000002,"end":143.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.63721875000002,"end":149.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.88096875000002,"end":152.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.08721875,"end":154.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.92659375000002,"end":157.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.64346875,"end":160.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.95096875000002,"end":161.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.91284375,"end":162.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.24596875,"end":164.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.61284375000002,"end":166.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.11034375,"end":176.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.69971875000002,"end":176.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.23534375,"end":179.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.12971875000002,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.48784375000002,"end":182.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.53409375,"end":184.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.64346875,"end":188.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.16659375,"end":186.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.74409375000002,"end":191.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.81159375000001,"end":189.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.56221875,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.02096875,"end":199.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.96596875,"end":205.07909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.51846875,"end":202.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.09596875000003,"end":208.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.55534375000002,"end":214.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.11159375000003,"end":226.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.60909375,"end":216.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.63721875000002,"end":233.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.52721875,"end":227.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.04596875000001,"end":230.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.37846875000002,"end":234.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.06596875000002,"end":244.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.62596875000003,"end":242.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.31784375,"end":244.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.97159375,"end":250.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.10159375,"end":250.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.11846875,"end":250.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.13534375,"end":250.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.35471875000002,"end":253.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.88159375,"end":256.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.10471875,"end":260.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.64846875,"end":273.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.59159375,"end":278.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.04221875,"end":280.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.67909375,"end":291.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.49159375,"end":293.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.92596875000004,"end":295.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.04784375,"end":298.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.17409375,"end":300.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.38909375000003,"end":304.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.37596875,"end":306.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.86096875000004,"end":305.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.27846875,"end":313.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.51784375,"end":322.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.18721875,"end":326.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.66346875,"end":327.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.48596875000004,"end":332.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.68346875000003,"end":349.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.27596875,"end":353.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.22471875,"end":375.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.98784375,"end":357.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.39409375,"end":384.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.46034375000005,"end":391.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.59846875000005,"end":398.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.05721875,"end":405.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.57096875,"end":421.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.36159375000005,"end":423.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.66096875000005,"end":424.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.65221875000003,"end":427.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.08221875000004,"end":438.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.37596875,"end":447.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.60659375,"end":455.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.35221875,"end":459.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.80284375,"end":464.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.03846875000005,"end":468.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.03784375000004,"end":469.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.43846875,"end":473.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.53909375,"end":482.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.97659375,"end":487.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.78596875000005,"end":491.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.12284375,"end":496.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.35846875000004,"end":497.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.50596875,"end":501.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.85971875,"end":503.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.20971875000004,"end":505.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.96034375000005,"end":507.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.71534375000005,"end":516.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.4734687499999,"end":518.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.78534375,"end":522.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.56534375,"end":523.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.13471875,"end":526.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.1384687500001,"end":527.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.1003437500001,"end":535.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.60971875,"end":536.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.4365937499999,"end":540.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.24596875,"end":542.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.3259687500001,"end":543.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.50721875,"end":545.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.03846875,"end":548.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.02534375,"end":561.1584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.8334687500001,"end":567.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.4697187500001,"end":578.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.94471875,"end":583.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.61909375,"end":597.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":597.82784375,"end":606.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.8728437500001,"end":609.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.58971875,"end":612.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.84659375,"end":614.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.2765937500001,"end":617.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.1453437499999,"end":620.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.01409375,"end":621.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.0478437500001,"end":622.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.83659375,"end":624.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.40596875,"end":625.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.1103437500001,"end":628.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.29971875,"end":635.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.50971875,"end":636.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.74159375,"end":640.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.94346875,"end":651.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.09784375,"end":656.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.00409375,"end":658.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.6284687500001,"end":668.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.24284375,"end":673.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.2165937500001,"end":705.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.94596875,"end":711.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.83096875,"end":716.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.47159375,"end":718.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.00721875,"end":720.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.5890937500001,"end":734.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":735.57846875,"end":739.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":740.53971875,"end":762.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.2534687500001,"end":766.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.23596875,"end":770.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":770.77971875,"end":773.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.6653437500001,"end":777.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":777.8503437500001,"end":786.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":786.92909375,"end":787.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.31284375,"end":794.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":794.92784375,"end":795.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.5815937500001,"end":797.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.1384687500001,"end":800.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":800.6315937500001,"end":806.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.07784375,"end":807.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.2084687500001,"end":812.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.23721875,"end":815.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.76846875,"end":826.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.60221875,"end":833.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.8247187500001,"end":836.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":836.8115937500002,"end":843.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.45596875,"end":848.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.9109687500002,"end":850.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":850.90221875,"end":854.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.59784375,"end":857.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.7703437500002,"end":860.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":860.4028437500001,"end":874.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.5947187500001,"end":878.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.59409375,"end":880.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.41221875,"end":892.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.2122187500001,"end":896.5828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.44346875,"end":898.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.8272187500002,"end":901.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":902.13471875,"end":910.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":910.82534375,"end":919.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":919.56659375,"end":935.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":935.3615937500001,"end":937.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":938.0615937500002,"end":943.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":943.15784375,"end":946.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":947.39346875,"end":949.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":950.3972187500001,"end":951.7134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":984.34971875,"end":987.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":990.4922187500001,"end":991.42034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":17.677,"end":37.513,"text":"院長早好 院長早各位委員各位官員大家早是不是先請我們卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":49.448,"end":51.195,"text":"院長早今天是我們這個總預算的這個質詢"},{"start":54.771,"end":79.114,"text":"首先還是要跟總院長請教,這個總預算要覆尾一定要有一個解方。上次在上禮拜五的質詢,好像你比較有提出善意。你有提出來說是可以用有關於進法補償的部分,是有機會用第二預備金或是追加預算的方式來去做這個進法補償的一個解方。"},{"start":79.835,"end":103.388,"text":"那本席這邊是不是今天可以來請你當Keyman來把這個問題再做更清楚的一個說明就是依照預算法第70條這個進法補償的部分是不是可以用第二預備金你如果是願意的話其實現在你就可以直接宣布如果你願意用第二預備金來解決這個問題的話這個進法補償從3萬塊提到6萬塊的部分就可以立馬來解決了"},{"start":109.551,"end":136.609,"text":"那第二個方式是也是你上次提到的要追加預算可是追加預算的部分還是要等你未來把這個預算送到立法院未來要三途通過那還有一段的時程還有一段未來立法院行政院要來處理的一個進度是不是請院長來說明一下我很謝謝委員在上一週的報告當中有看到我們在書面以及口頭的說明"},{"start":137.833,"end":160.071,"text":"也謝謝委員把它形容是一種善意我覺得那是一個原則性的問題我一直強調在憲法70條的精神底下在預算法91條的精神底下如果行政跟立法兩院互相尊重那在這個前提確立那往後我們也依照這樣的方式來進行所有的預算跟法律案的討論那這個"},{"start":162.192,"end":182.018,"text":"這個共識確立,這個原則確立,未來的整個程序也確立。那針對這個今年、明年度的中央政府總預算,大家現在還有所爭議的這個進化補償。那我們可以雙方來執照共同的資金彌補來...目前的爭議在哪裡?目前就是..."},{"start":182.668,"end":197.157,"text":"在依照預算法第91條的規定在大院審查預算增加稅出的時候必須徵詢行政院的意見同時要指出彌補資金之來源"},{"start":199.739,"end":221.885,"text":"那無論是有沒有徵詢你上次有講用第二預備金就是資金的來源啊就是說我們要確定一定要先這樣子有這樣資金來源之後我們才能夠立這個法那之後才能去執行好那院長時間有關係我是不是簡單跟你請教你願不願意再往前進一步就照你上禮拜所說的第二預備金是不是就是財源之一"},{"start":222.665,"end":225.669,"text":"你願不願意往前進一步來回應在野黨的不分黨派的想法?"},{"start":235.14,"end":239.425,"text":"所以院長我要講一下我是說這個過了週末兩天冷靜了一下你今天這三個方式你有沒有想要選擇今天要選擇某一個方式"},{"start":254,"end":279.762,"text":"因為在歷次的這個詢答過程當中用基金有的大院委員有不同的意見用二倍金有的認為他使用的用途有所限制用追加預算又有人認為他要到明年但是我們總會找出一個方式只要大家說好在這樣的原則程序跟他的法律的規定之下我們一定可以找出一個方式大家能夠各守一步"},{"start":280.811,"end":294.703,"text":"院長我最後再請教你最後一次就您今天如果願意提出善意的回應這三種你覺得會比較往哪一個方式走對您心中覺得是可以比較往這個方向前進"},{"start":297.113,"end":297.693,"text":"我認為最佳預算可能是大家爭議比較少的"},{"start":326.861,"end":352.654,"text":"所以你最後我今天就問到這裡啊所以你認為說你要用追加預算的方式來而不是用第二預備金因為第二預備金你可能覺得用的方式它的所謂規定內容也不是這麼的明確所以你認為說以預算法70條跟預算法79條預算法79條追加預算的方式可能是比較能行的一條路是嗎大家如果有共識明年我們變追加預算會有朝這個方向來做"},{"start":353.314,"end":367.338,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝院長我們再一起繼續加油尋求共識謝謝您的善意好第二個我要來請教今天這個政府總預算的部分大家都知道114年度中央總預算的部分編列了3兆1325億"},{"start":370.559,"end":397.301,"text":"主要最大的我們看到這塊餅主要最大的就是講補助費跟業務費本席針對預算編列的部分其實我很重視我們預算中心以及我們審計部給我們政府的意見其中預算中心裡面就有提到說現在他有發現就是我們在編列預算的時候有非常多的委辦費"},{"start":399.142,"end":399.442,"text":"財政部部長"},{"start":425.697,"end":426.017,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":447.651,"end":449.292,"text":"我們現在看下一張圖"},{"start":474.705,"end":486.962,"text":"這就是所有的單位大家可以發現越來越多的單位其實委辦費用都超過50%而且還有人員增加的一個問題所以我認為這個人民的納稅錢每一塊錢都是非常的重要"},{"start":487.847,"end":515.871,"text":"我這邊是不是等一下請院長回答之前我這邊有一個小有一個建議是不是可以來統整來幫政府某些很多單位來做健檢如果各部會的委辦費超過50%可是人員有增加的這樣的狀況是不是可以提出檢討的報告讓人民知道說人民的納稅錢是沒有被浪費的事實上是有這樣的委辦費有需要這樣的編列而且人員不應該有增加那麼多請院長回答"},{"start":516.636,"end":545.261,"text":"我很贊成委員這樣的意見第一個政府增加員額有的可能是組織的調整或增加像我們的數位發展部未來的運動部它就會增加員額但是政府很多專業的研究業務必須跟外界的專業來做結合來做進行討論跟研究但這個必須在嚴謹的專業的評鑑底下去選擇適合的合作的對象所以未來政府要聽過這樣的方式"},{"start":546.181,"end":560.876,"text":"什麼樣的業務需要委外去辦理之後要形成什麼樣的成效效果來給提供給我們執行或做參考這必須要非常嚴謹那我會照委員的建議我們會嚴謹的重新的來考量這個事情"},{"start":562.094,"end":591.38,"text":"的確第一個委辦費的部分越來越多人民我覺得他信任的是政府而不是相信政府不應該把人民納稅錢差不多一半以上都拿去委外那當然還有獎補助費像超市雞蛋案就是一個獎補助費非常嚴重一個政府沒有辦法管到我們獎補助單位的一個情形就是大家知道嘛這個農業部委託續產會續產會委託超市超市委託量產結果發現政府單位其實他沒有辦法管到超市跟量產"},{"start":592.02,"end":592.24,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間．張智倫"},{"start":618.186,"end":618.987,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．張智倫二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．張智倫二、上午9時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":640.984,"end":656.395,"text":"那我想要請教剛剛講的這些委辦的相關的問題政府難道可以把我們重要的我們的能源通通交給民間業者來做還有現在我們到底儲能設備未來要如何來做有沒有一些新的規劃"},{"start":660.471,"end":671.9,"text":"您剛才所指正的部分確實是我們過去的一些規劃但是我們現在是滾動式的思考所以我們會按照現況來做調整"},{"start":675.25,"end":702.725,"text":"好部長您的調整方式是什麼我直接給你看資料好了現在我們所有台灣其實向外購的電力已經將近高達快要30%那我一直想請問部長跟院長你知不知道未來如果這樣子以現在的目前的政策來講未來我們的國家能源可能有50%以上都成為外購電力那我請教一下如果台灣全50%以上都是外購電力的話"},{"start":703.746,"end":704.627,"text":"同時的需求暴增的話就會跟民間一起來做"},{"start":721.653,"end":722.354,"text":"我還是非常擔心這樣的問題產生"},{"start":740.718,"end":769.93,"text":"剛一直講政府的委辦費用如果超過50%政府未來的電力如果50%以上都是跟民間採購的話未來政府的力道會越來越小那未來人民對政府的信任也會越來越低那我還再請教一下這個部長的部分因為部長上來了部長你之前有講過要去菲律賓買電那一度電4塊錢我們可以看到下一張圖我們台灣現在購買再生能源的"},{"start":770.776,"end":775.717,"text":"請問部長我有兩個看法第一個你是不是認為說這個臺灣的再生能源的價格太高第二個會讓我覺得是不是臺灣再生能源中間有很多的這個利潤報告委員我想這個是規模的問題"},{"start":800.917,"end":825.764,"text":"規模的問題我想經濟學我想你應該都學過規模越大它的成本越低我想這個在菲律賓我可以買到比較便宜的電是因為它的規模很大所以它的建置成本就很低台灣因為我們這個台灣就是這麼小那能夠建置的這個區塊區域沒有那麼大所以它相對的成本就高"},{"start":826.633,"end":853.888,"text":"好,那我想要請教院長,你對部長的想法你能接受嗎?台灣現在,等於是說台灣現在在做冤大頭,跟花人民的納稅錢,來做這個外購電力的採購,風力發電要6塊5,太陽能光電要4塊8,可是從菲律賓買電只要4塊錢,請問部長有跟院長報告過這件事情嗎?未來我們是台灣就往這個,因為看,聽起來部長的想法還是非常的有自信,"},{"start":855.603,"end":880.264,"text":"臺灣有我們的地理環境的限制也有我們市場規模的限制那部長來自民間企業我們一開始邀請部長來擔任這個工作第一個就是希望他用民間企業經營管理的這種精神跟方式能夠讓我們的公部門包括我們的這些事業單位能夠有新的想法那新的想法不一定是"},{"start":881.445,"end":901.017,"text":"一朝半日可以完全實施但新的辦法會刺激我們做更多的想像會刺激我們做更多元的接觸那現在都在這個過程當中我覺得部長很多的想法我們都會經過很深思熟慮的考慮甚至合作的對象進行的時程預算的編列我們都會盡量這種程序來辦理的"},{"start":902.305,"end":918.484,"text":"好 謝謝院長的分享所以這邊還是要跟部長特別的拜託啦就是說很多的政策跟很多的想法其實在講出來以後其實會造成人民的恐慌也會造成現在整個台電的一些問題我一直感覺到台灣的綠能政策是有相當大的問題"},{"start":919.625,"end":921.126,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．張智倫二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":948.162,"end":950.667,"text":"這個重要的這個交通的交通"},{"start":984.423,"end":985.365,"text":"謝謝張智倫委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":29,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時）院長早，各位委員、各位官員，大家早，先請我們卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：張委員早。"],["張委員智倫：院長早。今天是我們總預算的質詢，首先還是要跟卓院長請教，總預算要付委，一定要有一個解方，上次在上禮拜五的質詢，好像你比較有釋出善意，你有提出有關於禁伐補償的部分，是有機會用第二預備金，或是追加預算的方式來去做禁伐補償的一個解方，那本席今天是不是可以請你當key man，來把這個問題再做更清楚的說明？就是依照預算法第七十條，禁伐補償的部分是不是可以用第二預備金來處理？如果你願意的話，其實現在你就可以直接宣布，如果你願意用第二預備金來解決這個問題的話，這個禁伐補償從3萬塊提到6萬塊的部分就可以立馬來解決了。第二個方式也是你上次提到的要追加預算，可是追加預算的部分還是要等未來你把預算送到立法院，然後要三讀通過，那還有一段時程，還有一段未來行政院要來處理的一個進度，是不是請院長來說明一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：我很謝謝委員在上一週的報告當中有看到我們在書面以及口頭的說明，也謝謝委員把它形容是一種善意，我覺得那是一個原則性的問題，我一直強調，在憲法第七十條的精神底下、在預算法第九十一條的精神底下，如果行政跟立法兩院互相尊重，這個前提確立，那往後我們也依照這樣的方式來進行所有的預算跟法律案的討論，這個共識確立、這個原則確立，未來的整個程序也確立，針對明年度的中央政府總預算，大家現在還有所爭議的禁伐補償，我們可以雙方共同來尋找資金的來源。"],["張委員智倫：院長，請教一下，目前的爭議在哪裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前就是依照預算法第九十一條……"],["張委員智倫：有人違反憲法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照第九十一條的規定……"],["張委員智倫：違反憲法第九十一條？"],["卓院長榮泰：在大院審查預算增加歲出的時候，必須徵詢行政院的意見，同時要指出彌補資金之來源，無論是有沒有徵詢……"],["張委員智倫：有啊！你上次有講，用第二預備金就是資金的來源。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是說我們要確定，一定要先有這樣的資金來源之後，我們才能夠立這個法，之後才能去執行……"],["張委員智倫：好，院長，時間的關係，我是不是簡單跟你請教……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是立法之後……"],["張委員智倫：你願不願意再往前進一步，就像你上禮拜所說的，第二預備金是不是就是財源之一，你願不願意往前進一步來回應在野黨的或是不分黨派的想法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我最後一句話是說，如果剛剛說的法律、憲法的共識、原則、程序都確定，那是要用基金還是用二備金，還是用追加預算，我們都可以來討論，行政院都可以朝這個方向，我們共同找出、尋找資金之來源。"],["張委員智倫：院長我要請教的是，過了週末兩天冷靜了一下，對於這3個方式，今天你有沒有想要選擇某一個方式？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為在歷次的詢答過程當中，用基金，有的大院委員有不同的意見；用二備金，有的認為它使用的用途有所限制；用追加預算，又有人認為它要到明年。但是我們總會找出一個方式，只要大家說好在這樣的原則、程序跟它的法律規定之下，我們一定可以找出一個方式，大家能夠各守一步。"],["張委員智倫：院長，我最後再請教你最後一次，您今天如果願意提出善意的回應，這三種你覺得會比較往哪一個方式走，您心中覺得是可以比較往這個方向前進？"],["卓院長榮泰：我可以說我的想法啦！但是……"],["張委員智倫：好，請說。"],["卓院長榮泰：一定會引起其他對這個想法不同意見的想法。"],["張委員智倫：沒關係，請說你的想法，大家會願意尊重行政院長的想法。"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為用基金的方式最方便，未來我們是不是可以再嘗試用公務預算來填補基金，這是一個最……"],["張委員智倫：好。你今天三選二，已經剩兩個，那兩個裡面，如果是基金跟追加預算的部分，你會選哪一個？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為追加預算可能是大家爭議比較少的。"],["張委員智倫：我今天就問到這裡，所以你認為你要用追加預算的方式，而不是用第二預備金，因為第二預備金，你可能覺得用的方式、所謂規定的內容也不是這麼的明確。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["張委員智倫：所以你認為以預算法第七十條跟預算法第七十九條追加預算的方式，可能是比較能行的一條路，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：大家如果有共識，明年我們編追加預算，會朝這個方向來做。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝，謝謝院長。我們再一起繼續加油尋求共識，謝謝您的善意。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["張委員智倫：第二個我要來請教，今天這個政府總預算的部分，大家都知道，114年度中央政府總預算編列了3兆1,325億，我們看到這塊餅主要最大的就是獎補助費跟業務費。本席針對預算編列的部分，其實我很重視我們預算中心以及審計部給政府的意見，其中預算中心裡面就有提到，現在它有發現在編列預算的時候有非常多委辦費，政府在編列預算的時候有業務費，可是我們希望政府可以越來越專業、越來越精進，當然政府的想法是有些自己不能做的委辦出去。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["張委員智倫：可是我們現在發現預算中心有特別提到，政府的員額有增加越來越多，可是委辦費也增加越來越多的這個情形。顧名思義，政府右手增列了很多優秀的人才到政府單位來上班，我們很支持，可是左手卻把人民的納稅錢、很多的經費拿去給外部的民間或是基金會做委辦費，所以我們可以看到這張圖，其實預算中心有特別提到，我們經濟部、環境部、數發部、教育部跟衛生福利部有超過50%是委辦費用，所以我要請教院長的部分是，我們人民相信的是政府，而不是相信外部的委辦單位，一方面政府人員增加，一方面委辦費用增加，這樣子政府不會變成讓人民沒辦法信任，變成委辦政府嗎？","我們現在看下一張圖，這就是所有單位，大家可以發現越來越多單位的委辦費用都超過50%，而且還有人員增加的一個問題。我認為人民的納稅錢，每一塊錢都是非常的重要，等一下請院長回答之前，我這邊有一個建議，是不是可以統整幫政府很多單位做健檢？如果各部會的委辦費超過50%，可是人員有增加的這樣的狀況，是不是可以提出檢討的報告，讓人民知道人民的納稅錢是沒有被浪費的？事實上是有這樣的委辦費有需要這樣的編列，而且人員不應該有增加那麼多？來，請院長回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：我很贊成委員這樣的意見，第一個，政府增加員額有的可能是組織調整或增加，像我們的數位發展部、未來的運動部，它就會增加員額，但是政府很多專業的研究業務必須跟外界的專業結合，進行討論跟研究，但這個必須在嚴謹的、專業的評鑑底下去選擇適合的合作對象。所以，未來政府要經過這樣的方式，什麼樣的業務需要委外去辦理，之後要形成什麼樣的成效、效果提供給我們執行或做參考，這必須要非常嚴謹；我會照委員的建議，我們會嚴謹的、重新的來考量這個事情。"],["張委員智倫：的確，第一個，委辦費的部分越來越多，我覺得人民信任的是政府，政府不應該把人民納稅錢超過一半以上都拿去委外，當然還有獎補助費，像超思雞蛋案，就是一個獎補助費非常嚴重，政府沒辦法管到獎補助單位的情形，大家知道嘛，農業部委託畜產會，畜產會委託超思，超思委託亮采，結果發現政府單位其實沒辦法管到超思及亮采，可是這獎補助費或委辦費就這樣發下去，所以我今天要跟院長請益，也謝謝院長從善如流，來做這樣相關的檢討。","好，接下來我要請教就是有關台電的一個問題，大家可以看到這張投影片，這張投影片上次我也有跟院長請教過的，上次郭部長特別跟我講，他說政府沒有想要來自己做綠能，因為他認為台電自己做綠能速度太慢，第二個，郭部長也特別跟我強調說，政府當時要做儲能設備，但做到2025年政策就有可能會轉彎，他說未來有可能政府還是要考慮做儲能設備，部長，但我想要請教剛剛講的這些委辦的相關問題，政府難道可以把我們重要的能源，通通交給民間業者來做？還有到底我們的儲能設備未來要如何來做？有沒有一些新的規劃，請回答。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想您剛才所指正的部分，確實是我們過去的一些規劃，但我們現在是滾動式思考，所以我們會按照現況來做調整。"],["張委員智倫：好，部長你的調整方式是什麼？我直接給你看資料好了，現在像我們臺灣的外購電力已經將近高達30%，我一直想要請問部長跟院長，如果以目前的政策來講，未來我們國家每年可能有50%以上都成為外購電力，我想請教一下，如果未來臺灣全50%以上都是外購電力的話，這樣會不會韌性不足？你認為未來這樣的能源政策，到底是由民間來主導？還是政府來主導？"],["郭部長智輝：如果同時的需求暴增的話，就會跟民間一起來做，長期的規劃，我想剛剛你有秀一張圖，是長期的規劃，但這裡面會因為時空的關係而有些改變，所以改變的時候，我們還是需要民間一起來做。"],["張委員智倫：好，所以我還是非常擔心這樣的問題產生，剛剛我一直講，政府的委辦費如果超過50%，如果未來的電力50%以上政府都是跟民間採購的話，未來政府的力道會越來越小，那未來人民對政府的信任也會越來越低。","我還是要再請教一下部長，因為部長上來了，部長，你之前有講過要去菲律賓買電，那一度電4元，我們可以看一下下一張圖，我們臺灣現在購買再生能源的成本非常的高，風力發電大概是6元，太陽能大概是4元，結果部長講了一個非常厲害的，從菲律賓買電只要4元，部長，我有兩個看法，第一個，你是不是認為說，這個臺灣的再生能源的價格太高？第二個會讓我覺得是不是臺灣的再生能源中間有很多的利潤。"],["郭部長智輝：好，報告委員，我想這是規模的問題，規模的問題，我想經濟學你應該都學過，規模越大，它的成本越低，在菲律賓我可以買到比較便宜的電，是因為它的規模很大，所以它的建置成本就很低，臺灣因為就這麼小，能夠建置的區塊、區域沒有這麼大，所以它相對的成本就高。"],["張委員智倫：好，那我想要請教院長，您對部長的講法能接受嗎？等於臺灣現在在做冤大頭啊！花人民的納稅錢來做外購電力的採購，風力發電要6.5元、太陽能光電要4.8元，可是從菲律賓買電只要4元，請問部長有跟院長報告過這件事情嗎？未來臺灣是不是就往這個方向，因為看部長的想法還是非常的有自信啊。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員，臺灣有我們地理環境的限制，也有我們市場規模的限制，部長來自民間企業，我們一開始邀請部長來擔任這個工作，第一個就是希望他用民間企業經營管理的這種精神跟方式，能夠讓我們的公部門，包括我們的這些事業單位，能夠有新的想法。那新的想法不一定是一朝半日可以完全實施，但新的想法會刺激我們做更多的想像，會刺激我們做更多元的接觸，那現在都在這個過程當中，我覺得部長很多的想法我們都會經過很深思熟慮的考慮，甚至合作的對象、進行的時程、預算的編列，我們都會盡量用這種程序來辦理。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝院長的分享，所以這邊還是要跟部長特別拜託，很多的政策跟很多的想法，其實在講出來以後會造成人民的恐慌，也會造成現在整個台電的一些問題，我一直感覺到臺灣的綠能政策是有相當大的問題，台電原本是資優生，現在台電員工在看醫生，我真的拜託部長有機會去台電走走，問問台電那些基層員工的心聲，其實他們的壓力都很大，而且他們對現在臺灣的能源政策，其實都認為現在中央是沒有聽到地方或是基層人民的心聲。","接下來下一個問題，我要來請教有關於地方重要交通的捷運，也是最後一個問題，我們中和有一個環狀捷運線，新聞有報花了14.9億，增加了大概4億的預算，現在新北市政府的災害預備金已經不足了，所以拜託我們交通部的部分，如果新北市真的錢不夠，拜託中央的部分要依照相關的法令來補貼，再拜託一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再請交通部跟新北市政府來做溝通。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第16位麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}